# Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite



## dannie01

Hi buddy, I wonder to start this thread earlier when I received my amp and searched that there is no such tiltle so I start it. Please also state what headphone/s you're pairing with and how do you love the combo.

 My WA6SE arrived by mid-March this year. I ordered a Sophia Princess 274B and two pairs 6EW7 along with the amp.







 Then, finally the following tubes are arriving my home in the following week. Found that I did not swap the Sophia into any other rectifier when I put it in and after burn-in, DAMN, I waste another piece (or 2?) Sophia on all these rectifier although most of them are great tubes but not as good as the Sophia.






 It is really an wonderful amp which sounds much over than expected and getting better and better. I have it pair with Senn HD650 (APS V3 SuperNylon/ RAL up-grade with Cardas Plugs and Furutech Plug), AKG K701 (re-cabled by Jena Labs Cable) and JVC HP-DX1000. The K701 combo is the best IMO that I'm not expected, I preferred the HD650 would be a perfect match with WA6SE ( learned that from a lot of reviews and impressions in head-fi) before I receive the WA6SE but I finally found I love the synergy with the K701 combo over the Senn. I can hear those deep, impactful and tight mid-bass from the K701 that I've never heard before and don't have to mention the airy, clearity highs as usual, it make the K701 sounds much more balance. For the DX1000, I don't think it is a good matching or just my weird listening taste, I thought that the highs from the DX1000 is veiled and the mid-bass is bloated with 6SE, not familiar to others who love this combo a lot.

 Not to say much here since there are tons of good reviews and impression here in head-fi for Woo Audio's products. But I have to state that I love my WA6SE very much.


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## indydieselnut

...in my signature! I guess I can't claim "maxxed" anymore since Jack has added the teflon tube sockets to the option list
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm running the Sophia Princess 274B mesh-plate and a pair of cryo-treated NOS RCA 6EW7's. Headphones in rotation are:

 GS1000i - incredible detail, soundstage is immense

 HD650 w/Blue Dragon v.3 - smooth, smooth, smooth and more smooth

 Beyer DT880 600-ohm - current most-listened-to 'phone...still getting to know it but I feel it has almost limitless potential. 

 My Woo has been totally reliable and is still a baby. I received it 3-30-09. 

 The new Woo's look interesting but I'm pretty happy with what I have...


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## OutdoorXplorer

I am joining this wagon and my details can be found by hitting About Me.


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## jc9394

Can I join? I have not receive my amp yet.


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## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I join? I have not receive my amp yet._

 

Pre WELCOME then...


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## dannie01

WELCOME GUYS!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...in my signature! I guess I can't claim "maxxed" anymore since Jack has added the teflon tube sockets to the option list
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm running the Sophia Princess 274B mesh-plate and a pair of cryo-treated NOS RCA 6EW7's. Headphones in rotation are:

 GS1000i - incredible detail, soundstage is immense

 HD650 w/Blue Dragon v.3 - smooth, smooth, smooth and more smooth

 Beyer DT880 600-ohm - current most-listened-to 'phone...still getting to know it but I feel it has almost limitless potential. 

 My Woo has been totally reliable and is still a baby. I received it 3-30-09. 

 The new Woo's look interesting but I'm pretty happy with what I have...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi ndydieselnut, I finally modded it by myself.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I totally swapped all the caps into BlackGate, VK for powe filtering , NH super-e'ed for bypass and cathode in the output unit and a piece rarely found Heart of Muse in the PSU. Mills and RMG gold lead resistots. Just finished for about 2 weeks or so about 100+ hrs burn-in and I don't know how to tell the improvement which I'm not good in express my joy with it after mod. Just improve in every aspect over the already very good sounding stock 6SE after 500+ hrs burn-in before my modding.


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## Orcin

I'm in with a WA6SE stock currently using the Sophia Princess rectifier and NOS Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7 power tubes.

 Headphones:
 high impedance jack = HD600's with Moon Audio Blue Dragon v3
 low impedance jack = D2000's recabled by Drew with a Blue Dragon v3

 I leave both plugged in all the time to show off the matching Furutech plugs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am using a Zu Birth power cable.

 The source is a Paradisea+ DAC connected with Grover SC 1M RCA's.

 Here's the pic, so people can't claim this thread is useless.


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the pic, so people can't claim this thread is useless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great pic Orcin.


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## jc9394

Very nice, I should have gone with Woo6SE instead of Woo6 Max.


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## dannie01

Either one, you won't regret.

 Oh, should I change the title to Woo Audio 6 SE and Woo Audio 6 SE MAX Amp Owner Unite? Almost all of us here are owners of these two models.


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## atbglenn

Happy Woo WA6 owner here. I just ordered custom feet from Jack similar to the ones used on the latest WA2. Hopefully they will look nice.

 Tubes I have are:

 Driver/Output: (8) NOS RCA 6DE7 w/shield (4) NOS Westinghouse 6DE7 w/shield (2) NOS GE 6DE7, (2) NOS Sylvania 6DE7 (4) NOS Sylvania 6EW7 Fat Bottle Clear Tops (2) NOS GE 6EW7 Fat Bottle Clear Tops

 Rectifiers: (2) NOS Mullard GZ30 (2) NOS RCA 5V4G, (2) NOS Svetlana 5U4G, (2) NOS RCA 5R4GY (1) NOS Ken-Rad 5R4GY (1) Electro Harmonix 5U4GB (2) NOS Sylvania 5U4GB (1955)


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Either one, you won't regret.

 Oh, should I change the title to Woo Audio 6 SE and Woo Audio 6 SE MAX Amp Owner Unite? Almost all of us here are owners of these two models.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is bad
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the regular WA6 Max


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## dannie01

No worry, it's just kidding
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, stay tuned and see how many of us would register here.


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Happy Woo WA6 owner here. I just ordered custom feet from Jack similar to the ones used on the latest WA2. Hopefully they will look nice._

 

Welcome atbglenn, please let us know more about the feet you ordered and how it work with your WA6 when received and installed, BTW, how much it cost? Set of 4?


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome atbglenn, please let us know more about the feet you ordered and how it work with your WA6 when received and installed, BTW, how much it cost? Set of 4?_

 

Hey Dannie,

 I paid $25 delivered for a set of 4. If I like the way they look installed, I will post pictures 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Dannie,

 I paid $25 delivered for a set of 4. If I like the way they look installed, I will post pictures 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Glenn_

 


 hummm, I should contact Jack since he have not ship out my amp yet.


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Dannie,

 I paid $25 delivered for a set of 4. If I like the way they look installed, I will post pictures 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn_

 

Great Glenn, it looks good in the WA2 and $25 delivered for set of 4 is reasonable, is it made by aluminium? Anxiously waiting you pics when it get installed.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to order 2 sets for my 6SE.


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## h.rav

I'm in with a WA6 w/ PDPS, parts upgrade, Sophia Princess 274B & a few set of drive tubes. I also have aluminum custom feet coming.


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## jc9394

Jack replied my email, it is include on all new WA6 and WA6SE since mid May.


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## atbglenn

Dannie,

 They are made of aluminum with silicon rubber inserts, and are available in black and silver. I should have them in the next couple of days and will post pictures before and after I install them..


 Glenn


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## h.rav

They look just like this one.


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## dannie01

Poor me, why every one here seems know Jack is selling these aluminum custom feets for the owners except me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to put my order now.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They look just like this one.




_

 

NICE!!! I'm glad they're scaled down for the 6.. Looks great!!


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They look just like this one.




_

 

Thanks h.rav, the 6SE looks much better than the normal rubber feet.


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## h.rav

^ I don't think he ever mentioned anything about the feet. He only posted the ones for WA2 at Woo's website. I found out about it at CanJam.


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Poor me, why every one here seems know Jack is selling these aluminum custom feets for the owners except me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to put my order now._

 

Shipping to HK probably cost you another $50.


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## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks h.rav, the 6SE looks much better than the normal rubber feet._

 

It does look much better


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## atbglenn

I live 25 miles from WooAudio, maybe that's why Jack charged me $25 shipping included


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shipping to HK probably cost you another $50._

 

It worth to pay for.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does look much better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, look much better, no doubt.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I live 25 miles from WooAudio, maybe that's why Jack charged me $25 shipping included_

 

Just emailed Jack and ordered 2 set for my 6SE, waiting for the Paypal invoice. $25 per set delivered is much reasonable than you drive to pick it up, save petrol and the planet.


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## CrazyRay

Woo Audio WA6 Special Edition: Parts upgrade: Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B — Drive/Power tube replacement: 1 matched pair 6EW7

 Headphones:
 • Deep Morado Bolivian Rosewood V3 Darths:
 Specs: 2m BlackMax cable terminated with a 1/4 inch Neutrik plug — Made with the latest DT770 PRO 80 ohm
 Deep Bolivian Rosewood cups +Matching Morado Stand

 • Grado Elite... Wide tops, deep version with multiple layers of Ebony and Bloodwood with matching end tips, splitter, CJC on the 2.0 meter BlackGold to Neutrik 1/4" plug, with domed stealth screens. Rare Joe Grado red lettered headband with black rod locks, new flat pads (and bowls). 
 Drivers current Grado, 325i tweaked by HEADPHILE.

 • AKG K701


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## dannie01

Hi CrazyRay, you're set-up always make me jealous everytime when I saw. You have a great system and they make me drool.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CrazyRay, you're set-up always make me jealous everytime when I saw. You have a great system and they make me drool._

 


 I agree Dannie. Very nice system indeed


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## Ricey20

have a silver WA22 pre-ordered. Waiting for it now


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## indydieselnut

First, Dannie - congrats on the build-up!! I saw the photos you posted earlier in another thread and everything looks super-clean. I don't have any of your skills so all I can do is enjoy my stock maxxed WA6SE! 

 Second - we should rename this thread "New aluminum feet for WA6SE customers!" because I just sent Jack an email asking to purchase eight of them for my amp. 

 Third - where is a good source for NOS fat-bottle 6EW7's? My NOS RCA's sound great (they're skinny-bottle) but I'd like to experiment with some first-rate fat-bottles.

 Last - I'm almost done with the "final" config of my system (the Decware CSP2 just joined last night) so I'll try to snap a picture when it's done!

 Thanks!


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## CrazyRay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CrazyRay, you're set-up always make me jealous everytime when I saw. You have a great system and they make me drool._

 

Thanks dannie01!


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## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Third - where is a good source for NOS fat-bottle 6EW7's? My NOS RCA's sound great (they're skinny-bottle) but I'd like to experiment with some first-rate fat-bottles._

 


 I search the Internet for these every single day. I'll let you know if I find more than I can buy.


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## GreatDane

Hey, cool thread...nice pics guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've had my W3 since soon after joining. I use it 90 % of the time with HD 650 with very good results. I've tried my DX1000 but need more time with that combo...I'm using Amperex 6922 & Tung-Sol 5998.


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## SemiAudiophile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi buddy, I wonder to start this thread earlier when I received my amp and searched that there is no such tiltle so I start it. Please also state what headphone/s you're pairing with and how do you love the combo._

 

awesome! i'm in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i thought maybe we should register our serial #'s too. that way it'll make us feel more special 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SN: S02 09034

 i am running the WA6SE with the Sophia upgrade powered by a Zu Birth as well with HD650 recabled zu mobius mk2 and a K701 recabled black dragons. both terrific combos.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have a silver WA22 pre-ordered. Waiting for it now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

nice, i'll be waiting for your impressions. i'd like to try the balanced route someday.


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## HeatFan12

Great thread dannie01

 WA2 maxxed....I have not found a headphone it does not like. Atm Ultrasone HFI-780 (Blue Dragon) and Denon AH-D5000...

 I also use the preamp out with my A5s....


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## OutdoorXplorer

Just realized that my WA6SEM came with the new shoes too.


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## Spareribs

The Woo 6 SE is one the best amps I've heard. Congratulations if you own it. Celebrate with a bottle of champagne!


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First, Dannie - congrats on the build-up!! I saw the photos you posted earlier in another thread and everything looks super-clean. I don't have any of your skills so all I can do is enjoy my stock maxxed WA6SE! 

Thanks for the compliment, indydieselnut

 Second - we should rename this thread "New aluminum feet for WA6SE customers!" because I just sent Jack an email asking to purchase eight of them for my amp. 

Or what about - Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite with "New aluminum feet for WA6SE customers!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, the name of this thread will retain because I'm now keep eyeing on the new WA22 balanced amp, maybe somedays later I will..................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Third - where is a good source for NOS fat-bottle 6EW7's? My NOS RCA's sound great (they're skinny-bottle) but I'd like to experiment with some first-rate fat-bottles.

Why not email Jack for extra pair or 2, I bought mine (Westinghouse x 1pair, Raytheon x 1pair) both-fat bottle from Jack when I order my 6SE.

 Last - I'm almost done with the "final" config of my system (the Decware CSP2 just joined last night) so I'll try to snap a picture when it's done!


Pics, Pics, Pics,Pi........................................... ......

 Thanks!_

 

.


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_awesome! i'm in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i thought maybe we should register our serial #'s too. that way it'll make us feel more special 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SN: S02 09034_

 

Good idea, why not?


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## atbglenn

[size=small]_My WA6 Serial # 0408086_[/size]


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## WalkGood

Count me in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	














*Join the group **here*


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## WittyzTH

I'm in with my WA6SE.


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## olblueyez

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/pho...5/#post5752491

 Get to work guys!


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## jantze

One modified WA6 here. Currently using RCA 6DE7 / Sophia Electric Princess 274B Mesh Plate tubes. I wish I had bought the 274B earlier, since I did buy too many NOS rectifier tubes.











 Pics of my current mods: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4893753-post683.html

 Using Denon AH-D2000 (Lawton Audio mahogany cups + markl mod + APureSound V3 re-cabled) OR
 Sennheiser HD 650 (APS mod + APureSound V3 re-cabled).


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## dannie01

Just received Paypal invoice from Jack for 2 sets of the custom aluminium feet for my 6SE. Jack replied :

_"I sent a PayPal invoice to this email address. $20 a set plus $13 Priority shipping, making the total $53. A foot comes in 2 parts: a silicone rubber and an aluminum shoe to wrap around the rubber that allows extra stability. This is a unique product because we made them out of a mold. You will see the quality when you receive them. By the way, we just updated the home page for this information."_

 Good price and reasonable shipping charge. I'm waiting the new shoes arrive for my 6SE.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Hi jantze, very nice mod, I will take some better pics for my modding and post later this week.


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## jc9394

It looks very nice on WA6SE.


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## dannie01

Hey jc, it finally arrived, looks very nice the 6SE with new shoes, nice pic. Thanks.


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## jc9394

No, I won't get the amp until next week. I stole the pics from Woo Audio website. Jack emailed me he is still waiting for one more blackgate parts to arrive on Friday and he will be able to ship out on Saturday or next Monday


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## atbglenn

Very nice jc. I should have my new feet either today or tomorrow. I can't wait


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## dannie01

Waiting for new toy is always painful
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'm in the same league with you guys now.


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## OutdoorXplorer

I waited patiently for 5 week before my item was shipped and another week to reached me due to custom clearance despite being shipped via FedEx. That happened in May 09.


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Waiting for new toy is always painful
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'm in the same league with you guys now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Kind of like toddler on Christmas eve...


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## dannie01

Yeah


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## dannie01

Just found there ae one lot for 4 of RCA and 1 of Admiral NOS 6EW7 fat-bottle on Ebay, who interested in these tubes could take a look HERE.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just found there ae one lot for 4 of RCA and 1 of Admiral NOS 6EW7 fat-bottle on Ebay, who interested in these tubes could take a look HERE._

 


 I wonder how they compare to the Sylvania clear top's I have?


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## CrazyRay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




_

 

*[size=medium]I love that poster!![/size]*


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## atbglenn

I remember that poster from the 70's. Looks like a JBL L100 loudspeaker, doesn't it?


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## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember that poster from the 70's. Looks like a JBL L100 loudspeaker, doesn't it?_

 

Hitachi Maxell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 You can always buy the real thing: Blown Away - Poster.com


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## j24

also in with a WA6SE using the Sophia Princess rectifier and NOS Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7 power tubes. Will try to post pictures later.


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## atbglenn

[size=small]_I got my feet today! What do you think?_[/size]


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=small]I got my feet today! What do you think?[/size]
















_

 

Looks really nice.


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## h.rav

^ Nice...


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## CrazyRay

I want!!!!


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## fatcat28037




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## dannie01

Nice pics atbglenn and seems its easily fit into the original rubber feet position with a screwdriver.


 EDIT: Just received Jack's email says that my order (2 sets of aluminium feet) is going to ship today, really great work Jack.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice pics atbglenn and seems its easily fit into the original rubber feet position with a screwdriver._

 

Dannie,

 Thanks my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All you do is remove your old feet, install new feet in the same screw holes using the new screws provided. That's it.

 Glenn


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## sillysally

Whats the deal with the feet, other than how it looks ?

 I also have a WA6SE maxxed. 

 I love it. 

 I also have a backup Sophia Princess 274B and 6EW7. Just encase my Princess goes bad like the first Princess I got. 

 I have the HD-650/cadis cord, K701 and a bottle of aspirin, SR-125 and my favorite Denon D7000.


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## dannie01

Hi sillysally, Jack claimed that with reply to a email "$20 a set plus $13 Priority shipping (to Hong Kong), making the total $53. A foot comes in 2 parts: a silicone rubber and an aluminum shoe to wrap around the rubber that allows extra stability. This is a unique product because we made them out of a mold. You will see the quality when you receive them. By the way, we just updated the home page for this information.
 "

 Too bad and sorry about your 274B, my first 274B also goes wrong previously and I've got a replacemnt from Jack very soon when he received and checked the bad one I shipped back. Thinking that you and I may not be the guys whom was having the similar case, maybe problem of QC with Sophia Electric or this may cause by the bad handling during the shipping process?


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## olblueyez

New feet look fantastic.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the deal with the feet, other than how it looks ?_

 

It's all about looks really. If anything, you get slightly improved airflow through the bottom vents since the amp sits a little higher than stock. 

 Glenn


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## dannie01

Hye guys, my WA6SE with Tung Sol 6CY7 and Sophia Princess 274B, it looks really sexy, especially glowing in the dark..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	

















  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's all about looks really. If anything, you get slightly improved airflow through the bottom vents since the amp sits a little higher than stock. 

 Glenn_

 

Yes Glenn, I have it sitting on some 1" height acrylic blocks to improve air flow at the bottom. It will be looks better when the new shoes received and installed, it's on the way now sending from Jack.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And here you can find pics of the innards of my 6SE's parts up-grade mod.


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## atbglenn

Nice Dannie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How do you like your Tung Sol 6CY7's compared to 6DE7's?


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## SleepyOne

dannie01 - Wow, that is some modding! The heat from the resistors are scary! How does the sounds changes from the original 6SE?


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## dannie01

Thanks Glenn, they come with more micro detail in highs,a lot more never heard from the 6DE7, similar mids but a bit forward (6DE7 has warmer sound) and punchy bass, good seperation and huge soundstage with Sophia 274B.


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## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SleepyOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow Danny, that is some modding! The heat from the resistors are scary! How does the sounds changes from the original 6SE?_

 

Yeah SleepyOne, one word at first is [size=medium]*"WORTH"*[/size].
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have all parts with about 120hrs burn-in, another 400hrs at least to go to have all parts being settled . Darker the background, it sounds really awesome, clarity, crispy, more airy in highs. Very good seperation, sweeter, clearer in mids, no hissing at all. The bass is now become tightened, punchy, impactful and solid. Tons of power reserved, never dail the volume knob over 11 O' clock even in low gain recording. It worth every penny I spent for the parts although they are expensive.

 Sorry about my lousy English to describe how wonderful sound from the WA6SE with up-grade parts, thanks Jack.


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## SleepyOne

Haha, that's excellent! That does sounds good and with so many big Blackgate caps I am not surprise it takes so long to burn in!


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## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry about my lousy English to describe how wonderful sound from the WA6SE with up-grade parts, thanks Jack.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dannie, go easy on yourself regarding the english...let's try conversing in your native langauge and see how I do!! Lousy, that's how I'd do...


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dannie, go easy on yourself regarding the english...let's try conversing in your native langauge and see how I do!! Lousy, that's how I'd do..._

 

HAHA! I'd probably do a lot worse than you. I never learned another language other than a few choice words in Spanish. I wont say what they are! LOL!

 Dannie, your communication skills are just fine


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## dannie01

indydieselnut and Glenn, thanks for kind words.


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## WalkGood

All these Woo Audio owners and only 5 members joined o_O

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Team Woo Audio


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All these Woo Audio owners and only 5 members joined o_O

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Team Woo Audio






_

 


 I just joined


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## kostalex

I joined into the group with my WA3, Blackgates output caps modded.


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## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just joined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just joined too


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## trigg3rhappy

Does anyone know if any of the WooAudio tube amps are capable of working well with low impedance cans such as the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros (80 ohm) or the Ultrasone Pro 900? Sorry, I've never used tube amps and I was very interested in getting one for using with a Sennheiser hd650. I just wanted to know whether it'd be good with lower impedance cans as well, possibly Grado's as well?


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## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trigg3rhappy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if any of the WooAudio tube amps are capable of working well with low impedance cans such as the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros (80 ohm) or the Ultrasone Pro 900? Sorry, I've never used tube amps and I was very interested in getting one for using with a Sennheiser hd650. I just wanted to know whether it'd be good with lower impedance cans as well, possibly Grado's as well?_

 

Speaking for myself, I bought the WA6SE specifically for low-impedance 'phones like my GS1000i's. Jack from Woo can answer more intelligently, but the WA6SE in particular is VERY powerful into low-impedances and sounds incredible!


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just joined too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I joined too...thanks for point pointing it out!


----------



## WittyzTH

Not only the amp, but also I'm really interested in the Woo DAC. I've heard that it had a prototype in the CanJam, but seems like everybody pay attention to HD800 and HF-2.


----------



## dannie01

I'm interested in the Woo Dac also, any more information about this DAC?


----------



## saintalfonzo

I'd also be interested in the Woo DAC. I didn't even know it existed until now, but I love my 6SE and may rethink my next purchase of a DA100 Sig if reviews convince me. Jack really knows what he's doing.


----------



## WittyzTH

I asked Jack once, but he didn't answer my email yet. 

 Here's the pic of it taken by SiBurning.






http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/ca...ml#post5729694


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WittyzTH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Jack once, but he didn't answer my email yet. 

 Here's the pic of it taken by SiBurning.






http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/ca...ml#post5729694_

 


 Looks like typical Woo tank-like construction Really nice looking..


----------



## Andy777

I've got a Woo6 with the PDPS and I never thought music could sound this good. Picking up the Sophia Princess is at the top of my list. From everyone's pics I'm quite behind the curve. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd post some pics of my own but my camera is dead and I can't find the charger.

 I don't even want to think about a Woo DAC.


----------



## indydieselnut

Hey Woo owners - I left my WA6SE on for 18 hours straight by accident last-night/today. I don't want to bug Jack if I don't have to - should I be okay? I know the Woo instructions say turn off after every 8 hours but it's completely ventilated and didn't even feel hot when I discovered my mistake. 

 I'm just nervous...

 Also - did people that ordered the feet get a shipping notice when they went out?

 Thanks!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Woo owners - I left my WA6SE on for 18 hours straight by accident last-night/today. I don't want to bug Jack if I don't have to - should I be okay? I know the Woo instructions say turn off after every 8 hours but it's completely ventilated and didn't even feel hot when I discovered my mistake. 

 I'm just nervous...

 Also - did people that ordered the feet get a shipping notice when they went out?

 Thanks!_

 

It should be OK to run it 24/7 if property ventilated. The concern will be fire hazard, small pets and kids at home.

 I did received a shipping notice prior to delivery.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Woo owners - I left my WA6SE on for 18 hours straight by accident last-night/today. I don't want to bug Jack if I don't have to - should I be okay? I know the Woo instructions say turn off after every 8 hours but it's completely ventilated and didn't even feel hot when I discovered my mistake. 

 I'm just nervous...

 Also - did people that ordered the feet get a shipping notice when they went out?

 Thanks!_

 

I left my wa6 on for 15 hours and it only got luke warm to the touch. I wouldn't worry about it.

 I did get a shipping notice 2 days before I received the feet...


----------



## indydieselnut

Thanks for the feedback!! Have you noticed all these Woo owners seem awfully nice? There's a joke in the classical music world about being able to describe a person perfectly based solely on the instrument they play...maybe there's something like that going on with Woo amps?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Have you noticed all these Woo owners seem awfully nice?_

 

[size=small]_Almost too nice_![/size]


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... Have you noticed all these Woo owners seem awfully nice? There's a joke in the classical music world about being able to describe a person perfectly based solely on the instrument they play...maybe there's something like that going on with Woo amps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Or the zen quality of the builder rubbed off


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I will be completing the 1st 100hrs of BG cooking today and the Sophia Princess will be sitting in in the next couple of days. Can't wait till the day comes.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or the zen quality of the builder rubbed off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Soulful. My music sounds smoother just looking at him


----------



## olblueyez

Or he builds a nice amp and never rubs his customers the wrong way. My next amp will be a Woo.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or he builds a nice amp and never rubs his customers the wrong way. My next amp will be a Woo._

 

I can't wait till you have a WA...


----------



## olblueyez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't wait till you have a WA..._

 

Dont hold your breath. Maybe next year. A black WA5 preamp would be nice.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Ha Ha. Yes a BLACK WooAudio...


----------



## WittyzTH

yeah.. WA5 is really tempting.. 

 If I don't have another hobby (photography), I will go for WA5 no doubt.


----------



## atbglenn

I'd love to get a WA5LE, but I recently had to replace my cesspool which cost me $4000, plus the cost getting the the front yard redone. Yikes!! Maybe next year...


----------



## shuttleboi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WittyzTH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Jack once, but he didn't answer my email yet. 

 Here's the pic of it taken by SiBurning.






http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/ca...ml#post5729694_

 

What is the black box on the bottom?


----------



## MooBin

I like to join. Greetings to everybody. This is my WA3+ (currently under tube rolling test) with Tungsol 5998 from 1963 and the Amperex Bugle Boys from 1959.


----------



## MooBin

Just curious: How do you all manage to publish big pictures in your posts (my uploads with format .jpg are restricted to 97KB or so - obviously I do something wrong. Thanks for your help.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MooBin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious: How do you all manage to publish big pictures in your posts (my uploads with format .jpg are restricted to 97KB or so - obviously I do something wrong. Thanks for your help._

 


 Imageshack.us works well. When you upload your pic, click on image details and you'll see several links. Copy and paste the "direct" link into your message using the "insert image" (mountain icon) in your message....Then preview it and should be fine. Just make sure in imageshack the resize option is not ticked....


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or he builds a nice amp and never rubs his customers the wrong way. My next amp will be a Woo._

 


 olblueyez, pre-welcome to the Woo Audio Amp Unite (may be next year?).


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

HD650 and SB3 in transit to play along with my WA6SEM. Still wandering for a decent DAC to fill the path in between.


----------



## MooBin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Imageshack.us works well. When you upload your pic, click on image details and you'll see several links. Copy and paste the "direct" link into your message using the "insert image" (mountain icon) in your message....Then preview it and should be fine. Just make sure in imageshack the resize option is not ticked...._

 

Thank you HeatFan12. Next time I will have something interesting to post I'll try Imageshack.us


----------



## mikeymad

Had a Maxxed out WA6 for a while pushing the GS1000's... Liked it a lot.....

 Now I am rocking the WA5 maxxed amp and PSU... pushing WE300B's into both K1000 and L3000

 Old images with it's tube cousins.....


----------



## indydieselnut

Mikeymad - super nice setup!! Are those Mapleshade brass footers? How do you like them?

 Cheers!


----------



## S Smith

Whoa, nice pics!!

 Are the tube cousins still around?


----------



## olblueyez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha Ha. Yes a BLACK WooAudio..._

 

Black all the way!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_olblueyez, pre-welcome to the Woo Audio Amp Unite (may be next year?).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, so many "Nice" Woo people.


----------



## atbglenn

olblueyez, I've seen many posts by you supporting Woo Amplifiers. So I'll also give you a pre-welcome to our Woo club, as long as you get SILVER of course.


----------



## madmax7

My WA3 (to olbueyez 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) was my first tube amp and I still love it to this day! It's my main amp, just love this thing.


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm interested in the Woo Dac also, any more information about this DAC?_

 

I don't know all the information on the DAC. I do know that he is working on a tube output section on it. 


 I borrowed it at CanJam for a while and ran it on my system (on Jack's request). Ran it side by side with my Marantz in the following configuration.


 Source Marantz SA-7S1 - > AQ Sky RCA -> WA5 (input 1) -> L3000

 and

 Source Marantz SA-7S1 - > S/PDIF -> Woo DAC - > AQ Anaconda RCA -> WA5 (input 2) -> L3000


 It was hard to AB, since the outputs were different levels. But I did get a good impression of the DAC as it was.

 First was a live recording - Frank Sinatra - Sinatra at the Sands.

 First I noticed was the Woo DAC output was louder. So I had to keep adjusting the volume when switching from the Marantz DAC to the Woo DAC. Not a huge difference with this recording. The most telling feature was one that I very rarely have heard. The sound stage from the Woo got taller, yep, taller. All the other aspects seem to match up with the DAC of the Marantz. Soundstage width, resolution, balance, tone, were all very close out of both. So at the very least it is as good as the flagship Marantz player output.... it made no mistakes.

 Next I listened to Imogen Heap - Speak For Yourself. This is where the reported 120db S/N really came out.... The sound floor dropped to nothing, could not really notice this on the live recording... Notes came out of blackness. The Marantz output sounded dirty in comparison. People talk about a veil being removed. It was more like turning the sharpness and contrast up on your TV. At first I thought that it was resolution, but it was more that the lack of extra noise just made it so I could hear very minor details that were lost in noise. This allowed me to pickup on some spatial cues that I had missed otherwise... This might account for the soundstage growing taller on the live recording, I was picking up reflections that I could not hear before.

 I was happy to report back to Jack that they were on the right direction with the new DAC. 

 Will be interested in the tube output section he is looking into. Also I would like multi inputs and both Balanced and SE outputs... But as far as the prototype DAC... it is sounding very good.

 Cheers,


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shuttleboi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the black box on the bottom?_

 

It is a media server that they are working on. And I believe they are looking to incorporate the prototype DAC into it as well. More to come on that one. It had very limited functionality at the show, it was running off of a flashcard with a couple of tracks on it. Gave it a quick listen, but nothing to report.

 Cheers,


----------



## number1sixerfan

I think I can say I am an owner? lol Just have a 4-6 week wait until the WA5 arrives......in BLACK. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *edit* Mikey, I just realized that Macallan is in your sig. I just picked up a bottle of Macallan 12...great stuff.


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 *edit* Mikey, I just realized that Macallan is in your sig. I just picked up a bottle of Macallan 12...great stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cheers -


----------



## Fido2

WA6 maxxed w/PDPS and Sophia rectifier, Using Denon AH-D7000's and Senn HD650's. I love this amp. I am seriously considering upgrading to the WA5LE or maybe the new WES when available. The Stax stuff is incredible. More is better and too much is just right.


----------



## shellylh

Another very happy Woo Audio owner! 

 I am wondering whether I should have gone for black but now I can call my amp the silver star!


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mikeymad - super nice setup!! Are those Mapleshade brass footers? How do you like them?
 Cheers!_

 

Like them a lot. They have a small effect in grounding the very heavy Cary, but they look great as well. I noticed an all over cleaning up of the bass and a touch more clarity. Was going to try them under the WA5 - amp section to see the effects there as well. Important to keep vibrations away from the monster 300B's.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *S Smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoa, nice pics!!

 Are the tube cousins still around?_

 

Thanks - The three brothers are still around the Cary is silent right now, but am working on fixing its voice.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am wondering whether I should have gone for black but now I can call my amp the silver star!_

 

Now we are talking... Team Silver WA5 in the house.... !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers,


----------



## Andy777

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another very happy Woo Audio owner! 

 I am wondering whether I should have gone for black but now I can call my amp the silver star!









_

 

Damn that's sexy.


----------



## melomaniac

looks like I have a WA3+ on the way. what do you guys think, will it drive the new Audeze planar cans well enough?


----------



## dannie01

Welcome all again to join the unite.

 mikeymad, thanks for the input. I'm wondering are you owning an audio shop by yourself at home
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I can see an amazing set-up from your pics, look awesome, thanks.

 shellylh, black is always sexy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've seen the pics of your system in another thread, that's an great amp and I'm sure many of us here are waiting for more great products from Jack, I'm one in the queue.


----------



## jsaliga

Here's my WA2...with stock drive and rectifier tubes. I'm now using Valvo ECC88 drive tubes and Tung Sol 6x4 rectifiers.






 Here are my custom made MB300B mono blocks. All stock tubes are in the photos. The stock rectifiers and 300Bs are coming out this week and will be replaced with Sophia Princess 274B rectifiers and 300B mesh plate power tubes. The 6SN7 drive tubes are NOS Sylvania. I have a pair of early 60s vintage NOS Tung Sol tubes on the way. 











 These amps are used to drive my Omega MaxHemp alnico single driver hempcone loudspeakers.






 The cables were a bit untidy when I took this pic. They are better managed now and out of the way.

 --Jerome


----------



## dannie01

Wow, very nice set-up jsaliga, thanks for the pics. All Sophia tubes for rectifier are big money but sure they will drive your equipment to another level, I have a SP 274B sitting on my 6SE, just awesome than the others in any aspects. The open wheel player and the LP deck make me imagining how good of your set-up sound.


----------



## Covenant

On order:

 WA6 SE Black
 Premium parts upgrade
 Teflon tube sockets
 Sophia Princess rectifier
 Driver tube replacement

 I'm chewing my fingernails waiting for it ><


----------



## jc9394

Congrats, you will not disappointed but the waiting is going to kill you. My wait is almost over, Jack finally emailed me the shipping number. It is about 5 weeks.


----------



## dannie01

Hey Covenent, how long have you been placed your order and still keep waiting? It should be over few weeks as you've mentioned.

 Anyway, welcome to join and congrats on your new toy.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On order:

 WA6 SE Black
 Premium parts upgrade
 Teflon tube sockets
 Sophia Princess rectifier
 Driver tube replacement

 I'm chewing my fingernails waiting for it ><_

 

Congrats on you new Woo. I'm sure you'll be thrilled with it


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Covenent, how long have you been placed your order and still keep waiting? It should be over few weeks as you've mentioned.

 Anyway, welcome to join and congrats on your new toy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's been 4 weeks already. I'm just hoping it'll be here in time for the Richmond meet on the 5th of July, although even if it is it wont be burned in by then. Jack has told me he'll do his best to get it done and here before then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just hope it doesnt get delayed by customs, too


----------



## dannie01

Oh, 4 weeks is about time for Jack to delivery, mine shipped out in the 5th weeks after ordered. Hope you can get your amp before the meet.


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsaliga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 --Jerome_

 


 That Rocks......


----------



## jsaliga

Thanks. I saw those pics of your killer rig. Very nice indeed.

 As crazy as this may sound, I am also toying with the idea of buying a maxed out WA5. When I had Jack custom build my mono blocks the parts upgrades weren't really an option. My amps have V-caps in them but no blackgates. Don't get me wrong, as I really love the sound of my rig. 

 But I recently took delivery of a pair of AKG K1000s and fell in love with them. I still prefer speakers, but the K1000s are the best sounding cans these ears have heard. For now am running them off of the speaker connections on my mono blocks. Jack said he would build a 2 channel speaker selector switch if I wanted one. So I am kicking that option around too.

 I'm not in any big rush, so I will sit on it for a week or two and then make up my mind.

 --Jerome


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsaliga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As crazy as this may sound, I am also toying with the idea of buying a maxed out WA5._

 

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on here with the maxed WA5. Take one for the team and go straight for the top!


----------



## dannie01

Yeah agree, go straight for the maxed WA5.


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think I've ever seen anyone on here with the maxed WA5. Take one for the team and go straight for the top! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't think that I am maxxed on the WA5... but I come pretty close. Mine came with several upgrades to the amp section when I got it from tyrion... Vcaps and the like..







 When I had a PSU issue a while ago I talked to Jack about what we could do with it... So we pumped it up...

 Replacing the entire board, along with other parts.... form this... 

 old:






 To THIS:

 new:






 Well worth it. Gained so much more control and speed.... Big caps = good caps.

 Happy ordering... 


 Cheers,


----------



## dannie01

Nice pics, what a pretty innards especially the V-cap and those big Jensen in the PSU.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think I've ever seen anyone on here with the maxed WA5. Take one for the team and go straight for the top! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I thought I remembered someone on here posting a thread about the "ultimate WA5"...it had WBT NextGen RCA's, some exotic tubes, and a bunch of internal upgrades. If I can find the thread I'll post it...


----------



## Ricey20

I like how Woos are built like tanks on the outside yet extremely organized and well thought out in the inside. Really top notch build quality. Jack said my WA22 will ship in early august, opted for silver instead of black, and yay for no premium parts (apparently already built with really good parts), just upgraded tubes. Can't wait!


----------



## dannie01

Found it.

*Woo Audio WA5-LE Custom Build*

 Owner is dvb-projekt from Germany, a really rich guy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the unit is terribly expensive, he said that "_If you would like to get an offer for the same Amp, please call Jack Woo.
 He is a real nice guy and could help you with this question. But it will be over $ 6K incl. shipping."_


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...yay for no premium parts (apparently already built with really good parts), just upgraded tubes. Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I agree that the stock slate of parts are great and Jack builds a terrific amp right out of the box. I was even impressed with my WA2 with stock tubes when I first bought it. But tube upgrades, and tube rolling is worthwhile. And I believe the parts upgrades are worthwhile too. It's great that Jack has options for just about every budget.

 --Jerome


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Found it.

*Woo Audio WA5-LE Custom Build*

 Owner is dvb-projekt from Germany, a really rich guy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the unit is terribly expensive, he said that "If you would like to get an offer for the same Amp, please call Jack Woo.
 He is a real nice guy and could help you with this question. But it will be over $ 6K incl. shipping."



_

 

That is one hell of an amp lol.


----------



## dannie01

Wondering when will I win a lotto or called Mark-Six in Hong Kong.


----------



## jsaliga

I'm even thinking about possibly buying a maxed out WA5 and selling my WA2 and 300B mono blocks. I know it may sound strange to go from seperates to an integrated amp. But now that I have the K1000s and value them as an integral part of my setup, it may make better sense to go with a single-amp solution like the WA5 that can do nicely with my speakers and has a dedicated XLR connection and impedence matched output for the K1000. 

 I don't know that I want to start an amp collection. Though I am extremely fond of the rig I have.

 Decisions, decisions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 --Jerome


----------



## dannie01

Jerome, I'm curious why not to keep your 300B mono blocks and replace the WA2 with WA5 max for pre amp and headphone amp funtion? I don't think an integrated amp would perform better than seperate but just make it simple.

 Just my 2 cents.


----------



## indydieselnut

Anyone have experience with the Emission Labs 274B or 5U4G (both of which would be suitable rectifier tubes with a WA6SE, correct?)? I now have two amps (the CSP2 can use the 5U4G as well) that could use the same rectifier and I'm looking for something different to try.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have experience with the Emission Labs 274B or 5U4G (both of which would be suitable rectifier tubes with a WA6SE, correct?)? I now have two amps (the CSP2 can use the 5U4G as well) that could use the same rectifier and I'm looking for something different to try._

 

Yes, both 274B and 5U4G could be used in 6SE and I want to know the differs too, checked that from Jac Music they offer the same price as the 274B and it looks really attractive and Jack recommended it for the WA5 also.


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jerome, I'm curious why not to keep your 300B mono blocks and replace the WA2 with WA5 max for pre amp and headphone amp funtion? I don't think an integrated amp would perform better than seperate but just make it simple.

 Just my 2 cents._

 

The WA5 has 4 source inputs and does not have any preamp outputs, like the WA2 does. So I won't be able to run a line-level signal to my mono blocks or my Omega DeepHemp sub. I just found this out a few minutes ago.

 I'm sure Jack can tweak the design to achieve the desired result. I sent him a note asking for his opinion. Perhaps we can drop one of the source inputs on the WA5 and substitute a line out so I can run it to my sub.

 It wouldn't be a sin to have both...but it does seem a little wasteful to me. On the other hand, I have thought about using this as an opportunity to try another amp such as a Cary 300 SEI (but that would be even more costly than a maxed out WA5).

 I'm sure I am giving the impression that I am agonizing over the decision. Honestly, I really am not. I can afford to be patient and work with Jack. I already sent him a note letting him know that I am inclined to go forward with a WA5 build including the parts upgrade. I just need to work out the finer points with Jack and I am quite confident that I will be to do that.

 --Jerome


----------



## dannie01

I see, but for the similar feature that you're asking to work with Jack regarding the pre-amp output, the WA5LE offers 4 inputs also. Why not just max out the 5LE to match your curent system and not making any waste of the mono blocks. Sorry about my curiousity and please correct me if I'm understand wrongly.


----------



## jsaliga

No problem. In my mind the ideal solution for me would be to replace the WA2 and MB300Bs with a maxed out WA5...but only if I could run a line level out to my sub as I really don't like speaker level connections to powered subwoofers. In my experience that results in slightly flabby bass performance, and I don't want to sacrifice there since I have a very fast and musical sub.

 Using a WA5LE as a pre-amp makes less sense to me than just buying a WA5 and using it as a dedicated amp for my K1000s, while keeping my existing WA2 and MB300Bs. If I went with the WA5LE I would still have to solve the problem of powering my K1000s, and would need to either use a speaker selector switch or connect and disconnect the phones from the speaker terminals on my mono blocks. So in my view the WA5LE doesn't really buy me anything that I don't already have since I am perfectly happy with my WA2 as a preamp.

 No, as I see it there are only three options: 1) Have Jack make a two channel speaker selector switch so I can change between speakers and the K1000s effortlessly, 2) Buy a WA5 and build a dedicated system for the K1000s around it, or 3) Replace my WA2 and MB300Bs with a WA5 and run my speakers and K1000s from it...assuming some accomodation can be reached for my desire to run a line level out to my sub.

 --Jerome


----------



## dannie01

Thanks for the input Jerome, I think I can understand what you intented to do with your system now. Cheers


----------



## jsaliga

My pleasure. The real appeal in the WA5 is to get it loaded with parts and tube upgrades that were not available at the time my mono blocks were designed and built. Admittedly, that alone is having a pretty strong pull on me despite the fact that I am very satisified with my current setup. And, as an added benefit there is a certain appeal of having a 300B driven headphone amp too, which obviously my WA2 is not.

 Were it not for that, I would probably just have Jack make me a very nice speaker selector switch and be done with it.

 --Jerome


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, both 274B and 5U4G could be used in 6SE and I want to know the differs too, checked that from Jac Music they offer the same price as the 274B and it looks really attractive and Jack recommended it for the WA5 also._

 


 Just got off the phone with George about these two tubes. I'm a tube idiot, but from what he said I gather that the 5U4G is going to be able to pass more current than the 274B (maybe that's common knowledge). He did say that the 5U4G doesn't want to see more than 14 microfarad from the first capacitor. Again, I might as well have been speaking a foreign langauge as I have no idea what that means. 

 For what it's worth, the 274B is in stock and the 5U4G will be here in a few weeks. As you noted, they are the same price.


----------



## deutscherhififan

Greetings from another proud Woo Audio Owner! Last year I got my new WA2 and had it customized as follows:

 - complete internal redesign to accommodate remote volume
 - all metal remote control
 - complete parts upgrade package
 - TS 5998 power tubes, Amperex Bugleboy 6DJ8's drivers, and Mullard 6v4's rectifiers

 I just learned that Jack has updated the design of the stock WA2 to utilize the power tubes for preamp duty (previously only the driver tubes were used for the preamp out). Hence, I decided to send mine back (it left today, so no impressions r/ change of sound yet) in and get it modified to the latest design. While in the shop I am also having all RCA sockets replaced with WBT 0210's. 

 Since I use the amp 80% of the time as a preamp and only 20% for headphone duty, it seemed a worthwhile investment. Here is what Jack had to say about the difference between the 'old' and the 'new' WA2:

 "The current version uses the power tubes for preamp output, driven by the drivers (last edition is output by the drivers only). The benefits are multi-folds: better loading capacity, higher gain, and much energized. You will also take full advantage of the power tubes."

 A few pics are enclosed. BTW, I am using a EML 5U4G in my Platinum Modwright Transporter and love it.


----------



## deutscherhififan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsaliga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA5 has 4 source inputs and does not have any preamp outputs, like the WA2 does. So I won't be able to run a line-level signal to my mono blocks or my Omega DeepHemp sub. I just found this out a few minutes ago.

 I'm sure Jack can tweak the design to achieve the desired result. I sent him a note asking for his opinion. Perhaps we can drop one of the source inputs on the WA5 and substitute a line out so I can run it to my sub.

 It wouldn't be a sin to have both...but it does seem a little wasteful to me. On the other hand, I have thought about using this as an opportunity to try another amp such as a Cary 300 SEI (but that would be even more costly than a maxed out WA5).

 I'm sure I am giving the impression that I am agonizing over the decision. Honestly, I really am not. I can afford to be patient and work with Jack. I already sent him a note letting him know that I am inclined to go forward with a WA5 build including the parts upgrade. I just need to work out the finer points with Jack and I am quite confident that I will be to do that.

 --Jerome_

 

REL, considered the top subwoofer manufacturer by many, suggests that there is only one proper way to connect a sub and that's per the speaker output. I was provided with some of their literature as I also had hesitations, but the explanation seemed to make sense.


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_REL, considered the top subwoofer manufacturer by many, suggests that there is only one proper way to connect a sub and that's per the speaker output. I was provided with some of their literature as I also had hesitations, but the explanation seemed to make sense._

 

Hmmm...how to put this as politely as I can... 

 I am well aware of that. But I am much more inclined to believe what my own personal experience tells me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Fair enough?

 --Jerome


----------



## deutscherhififan

I didn't imply this is the way to go, just quoting someone who knows a thing or two about subs. The rest is personal taste (politely said).


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got off the phone with George about these two tubes. I'm a tube idiot, but from what he said I gather that the 5U4G is going to be able to pass more current than the 274B (maybe that's common knowledge). He did say that the 5U4G doesn't want to see more than 14 microfarad from the first capacitor. Again, I might as well have been speaking a foreign langauge as I have no idea what that means. 

 For what it's worth, the 274B is in stock and the 5U4G will be here in a few weeks. As you noted, they are the same price._

 

I'm a tube idiot either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I wnat to know what is it mean exactly by "but from what he said I gather that the 5U4G is going to be able to pass more current than the 274B and He did say that the 5U4G doesn't want to see more than 14 microfarad from the first capacitor".

 Anyone could help with these questions would be appreciated.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone that can help:

 I just got a used woo 6 from a headfi member. it didn't come with any mods.

 Will I have to make any mods to replace it with the sophia princess? Or does it fit right in?

 Also I don't want to ship it back to woo 6 to have the pseudo power supply upgrade. anyway i can order the part and do it myself?

 thank you


----------



## Ricey20

the Sophia fits right in. If you can though, I WOULD send it back for the pseudo power supply as it seems to make a big change in sound.


----------



## sling5s

I guess I'll get the sophia first and send it back later for pseudo power upgrade. I think woo audio is busy now with orders from canjam and it may take a long time.


----------



## dannie01

New shoes arrived today and they're on the 6SE, it looks much nicer.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Nice Boots!


----------



## dannie01

Thanks buddy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, something off topic, any decision on DAC to feed your Woo yet?


----------



## atbglenn

Dannie,

 Looks great


----------



## indydieselnut

Dannie, that's so funny...I got my new shoes yesterday! They went on like a snap and look great. One benefit I noticed right away was that, when plugging and unplugging the headphones, there's less chassis movement. I attribute this to the stabilization provided by the aluminum outer pieces. 

 It really "finishes" the presentation...I was a bit surprised by the stock feet when I got my amp. 

 Now I just need my AH-D7000's and HF-2's to show up and I'll be DONE...yeah right. 

 Cheers!


----------



## jc9394

Woohoo, my WA6 is here but I need to drive to my local post office to pick it up during lunch.


----------



## j24

How do you order the new shoes for the 6SE (I have a black one)? I don't see it online on his site. Do you have to email him? $25 (shipping included) correct?
 Thanks.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you order the new shoes for the 6SE (I have a black one)? I don't see it online on his site. Do you have to email him? $25 (shipping included) correct?
 Thanks._

 

Email Jack, Tell him you want the feet in black. Also, tell him where you live so he can calculate shipping. He'll respond within a day. I paid $25 including shipping, but I live within 25 miles of Woo's business. I'm not sure if that's a factor..


----------



## j24

thanks, atbglenn. They indeed looked better than the standard ones I have.


----------



## atbglenn

j24,

 I think it makes a huge difference in the looks. I'm pretty sure it sounds better too! LOL Can you imagine that???


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't imply this is the way to go, just quoting someone who knows a thing or two about subs. The rest is personal taste (politely said)._

 

No problem, we're cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's academic anyway since I have already made my decision. I am going to keep my WA2 and mono blocks, and add a maxed out WA5 for the K1000s and other headphones. This will give me the best of both worlds. I can have seperates for my speaker rig and a 300B amp for the K1000s and other headphones. A speaker selector switch would only get me 300B powered K1000s, but not other phones and I still have Grado GS1000s and a pair of Audio Technica ATH-W5000s that I intend to keep, at least for now.

 Once the WA5 is here I will probably send my WA2 to Jack for some upgrades.

 --Jerome


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I see many of you are chasing after the cosmetic alterations.... Mine came with the new boots though.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see many of you are chasing after the cosmetic alterations.... Mine came with the new boots though._

 

I think it comes standard now, and without increasing the price. Very nice


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it comes standard now, and without increasing the price. Very nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes, wooaudio start using the new boot since mid May on WA6/SE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dannie,

 Looks great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Glenn.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dannie, that's so funny...I got my new shoes yesterday! They went on like a snap and look great. One benefit I noticed right away was that, when plugging and unplugging the headphones, there's less chassis movement. I attribute this to the stabilization provided by the aluminum outer pieces. 

 It really "finishes" the presentation...I was a bit surprised by the stock feet when I got my amp. 

 Now I just need my AH-D7000's and HF-2's to show up and I'll be DONE...yeah right. 

 Cheers!_

 

I don't have the benefit as yours, it still moving when plugging and unplugging the headphones because I have it sitting on the acrylic blocks and the blocks are on the marlbe that the surface is really "slippery".
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 when compare with the new shoes, the stock feets are really like sh.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see many of you are chasing after the cosmetic alterations.... Mine came with the new boots though._

 

Cosmetic is really a matter that affecting the SQ of an equipment psychologically.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Glenn.
 Cosmetic is really a matter that affecting the SQ of an equipment psychologically.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 i like this.....


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it comes standard now, and without increasing the price. Very nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They are very nice people...


----------



## jc9394

Just picked up my WA6 from post office, can't wait until 5pm.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just picked up my WA6 from post office, can't wait until 5pm._

 

 It's an awesome amp. I hope you love it as much as I do


----------



## CrazyRay

I do not see the new feet on Woo's website?
 I would like to order a set.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CrazyRay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not see the new feet on Woo's website?
 I would like to order a set._

 


 Ray, Email Jack. That's how I got mine


----------



## CrazyRay

Thanks atbglenn!


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's an awesome amp. I hope you love it as much as I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know I will, now I need to search fleabay for driver tubes, any recommendation? I have the RCA 6DE7 and Sylvania 6FD7 now, as for power tube, I have the Sofia princess (fell in love at first sight).


----------



## atbglenn

JC, I just got 4 additional NOS RCA 6DE7's with the shield off of "fleabay" for $2 apiece plus $6 shipping. Those are my favorites so far. As far as rectifiers, I like my Mullard GZ30. I would love to try a Mesh Plate Sofia, but it's a bit too expensive for me.


----------



## jc9394

I think I need to spend some QT with tubeworld in the next few days.


----------



## JMBNaples

I have read about every word about the WA6 and WA2 on these boards. Has anyone here actually had a chance to A / B them? How big a difference is there?

 I am on the fence between the WA6 with PDPS, and Princess Sophia (and maybe a preamp output) and the stock WA2.

 Since the price is not much of a difference between the WA6 with PDPS, and Princess Sophia, and the stock WA2, of the following would sound better for the 701s and 650s:

 A. The WA2 getting music from an ipod running lossless sitting in an Apple universal dock thru regular store bought ($29) cables; 

 Or

 B. the upgraded WA6 getting music from an ipod running lossless sitting in an ALO Audio dock thru more expensive ($100) cables?


----------



## deutscherhififan

I think you wouldn't get the best out of either option as long as you are relying on the inferior DAC in the iPod. It's a little bit like feeding a Ferrari Diesel gas. If an iPod is your primary source, get a Wadia iTransport, a decent DAC and a stock WA6. The sum of the results would be much better than feeding an inferior analog signal originating in the iPod to a classy WA combo. Just my 2 cents...


----------



## jc9394

Jack did recommend me to get WA6SE instead of regular WA6 if I use iPod out. iPod may not have enough output with regular WA6. So to answer your question, WA2 maybe a better choice for you.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you wouldn't get the best out of either option as long as you are relying on the inferior DAC in the iPod. It's a little bit like feeding a Ferrari Diesel gas. If an iPod is your primary source, get a Wadia iTransport, a decent DAC and a stock WA6. The sum of the results would be much better than feeding an inferior analog signal originating in the iPod to a classy WA combo. Just my 2 cents..._

 

X2 on Wadia and DAC route. I'm getting a Wadia with DAC1.


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray, Email Jack. That's how I got mine_

 

Damn. I just ordered those new shoes


----------



## Rob N

WA5-LE here with premium parts and preamp out


----------



## sclamb

Black WA6 SE maxed with Sophia and running RCA 6fd7s


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack did recommend me to get WA6SE instead of regular WA6 if I use iPod out. iPod may not have enough output with regular WA6. So to answer your question, WA2 maybe a better choice for you._

 

It appear to be valid. I had that setup earlier and upgraded per my signature now..


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black WA6 SE maxed with Sophia and running RCA 6fd7s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Same tubes I'm running now but on a WA6 maxed, it is simply amazing, much better than I expected. That glow on Sofia princess is so sexy.


----------



## melomaniac

big brother in the house:


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same tubes I'm running now but on a WA6 maxed, it is simply amazing, much better than I expected. That glow on Sofia princess is so sexy._

 

jc, great to hear you have your amp running now, I would suggest you pick some different tubes through eBay, it would be cheap sometimes. Try more and pick some that you like most and stock some for the future need. There are many substitution for the output, 6DE7, 6EW7, 6CY7, 6DR7 and 6FD7, etc. Try to go through this THREAD, it's long but you've a lot information regarding the Woo 6 and 6SE. Also, danmagicman7 have a very detail impression and tuberolling about the WA6, click HERE.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JC, I just got 4 additional NOS RCA 6DE7's with the shield off of "fleabay" for $2 apiece plus $6 shipping. Those are my favorites so far. As far as rectifiers, I like my Mullard GZ30. I would love to try a Mesh Plate Sofia, but it's a bit too expensive for me._

 

Hey Glenn, how do you like the GZ30 compare to Sophia 274B? I have this thue also but I never put it into my 6SE.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn, how do you like the GZ30 compare to Sophia 274B? I have this thue also but I never put it into my 6SE.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wish I knew. I've never heard a Sophia 274B. From what I read,the Sofia is best rectifier for the woo 6. One head-fier, (I forget who) a while back said the Mullard GZ30 had 90% the sound quality of the Sophia at a fraction of the price. I won 2 GZ30's off ebay from a Canadian seller. One I got for $10, the other for $18. He now only sells them for a "Buy it Now" price of $60. I'm glad I got mine when I did.

 Glenn


----------



## sclamb

That was me discussing the Mullard GZ30. It is a great tube and really is 90% of the Sophia, but once you hear the Sophia Princess in the Woo then any other tube will just seem to be lacking something.

 If you have never heard the Sophia then you would be very happy with the GZ30. Once you have heard the Sophia, you would still be happy with the GZ30 but you would always want the Sophia in the amp.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was me discussing the Mullard GZ30._

 

That's right! It was you. How could I forget? I must be going senile


----------



## jc9394

How long does the blackgate burn in need?


----------



## dannie01

Around 500+hrs, nothing you can do but patient.


----------



## jc9394

that is like 6 months
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for me, i usually only listen no more than 3 hours a day.


----------



## dannie01

I will turn it on when I'm home from work and off in around an hour before go to bed. And than turn it on again and let it sing over night for total about 10-14hrs a day.


----------



## jc9394

I may do that too to speed up the burn in, but I do like the changes during burn in. Any one get the stepped DACT option? I did get it and found i do like it over regular pot on my other amps.


----------



## uberburger101

Likewise. I'm about 400+ hours with my amp after about 5 weeks.


----------



## dannie01

Otherwise, you'll have to spend HALF OF YEAR for the burn-in like jc said if you can only play 3hrs a day.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jc, how is the DACT sounds any differ than the ALps? Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Don't know yet but I do like the feel when turning the volume up and down. It is a little more restrictive on the macro adjustment but that did not brother me at all. According to Jack, the DACT option is very good on low volume listening.


----------



## jc9394

A quote from Jack.

_"A DAC CT will have low volum from step 1 to 18. The attenuator curve is not ideal for user experience so we have dropped the option. However, it will be a nice upgrade if you listen in low volume. Note that this is not a priority upgrade for the WA6."_


----------



## dannie01

I'm planning to order a Goldpoint for my 6SE, the size of the volume pot and the shaft is not same as the Alps and I need some metal work on the face plate and a new knob for it. I asked jack last week for the new volume knob and was quoted $18 and $13 for shipping, it's nice price for it in solid aluminium.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black WA6 SE maxed with Sophia and running RCA 6fd7s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is the 6FD7 you are running a fat bottle one?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm planning to order a Goldpoint for my 6SE, the size of the volume pot and the shaft is not same as the Alps and I need some metal work on the face plate and a new knob for it. I asked jack last week for the new volume knob and was quoted $18 and $13 for shipping, it's nice price for it in solid aluminium._

 

I would love to get a Goldpoint one but I'm not good with DIY so I take what ever Jack is offering. $18 for the volume knob is very reasonable, I may get a black one to match my headphone jacks.


----------



## dannie01

BTW, for metal work, I'm asking help of my friend whom own a workshop himself with a table top drilling machine and some necessary tools. It could not be done without skill, so I need some help. Also, it would looks interesting with your silver WA6 with a black knob. Take some pics when you're WA6 have it.


----------



## jc9394

I emailed Jack already, it seems like I'm working for Jack lately.


----------



## dannie01

Sorry jc, my mistake, just checked with Jack's email replied, the price of the knob should be $15, not $18. Sorry Jack if you're going through this thread.


----------



## jc9394

$15 is even better. 

 Is it normal it hums while power on? My WA6 hums about 5 seconds during initial power on but it is dead silence after that.


----------



## dannie01

Not in my WA6SE, it's dead silent when turning on and off, no hiss or hum ever heard.


----------



## jc9394

humm, I guess I have to email Jack about this.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$15 is even better. 

 Is it normal it hums while power on? My WA6 hums about 5 seconds during initial power on but it is dead silence after that._

 

No hum on my WA6, where do you hear the sound, from headphones or the amp?

 Edit: BTW, mine is over a year old.


----------



## jc9394

From the headphone, it only lasted about 5 seconds.


----------



## atbglenn

The hum through headphones is normal when first powered on. 5 seconds sounds about right. My WA6 has been doing it since new. (for over a year now)


----------



## WalkGood

I’ll try later today, just thought about it and I let mine warm up around 5 minutes before I start using her.

 Edit: Volume is on zero during this time, with everything else set up and ready to go.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The hum through headphones is normal when first powered on. 5 seconds sounds about right. My WA6 has been doing it since new. (for over a year now)_

 

Good to know, it did scare me a bit last night.


----------



## dannie01

I tried minutes ago. Turn on with K701 plugged with zero of the volume, no hum.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried minutes ago. Turn on with K701 plugged with zero of the volume, no hum._

 


 The newer WA6SE has a soft start circuit, so it may not hum upon turn-on. The standard WA6 does hum for 5 seconds while the rectifier tube stabilizes. I was alarmed when I first noticed it. I asked Jack, and he said it was normal.


----------



## WalkGood

I just tried and I can set my watch by the 5 seconds, it's warming up, I understand. Funny thing is that I've owned mine over a year, have always let it warm up about 5 min's and have never noticed because I don't even pick up the phones till the 5 ...


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The newer WA6SE has a soft start circuit, so it may not hum upon turn-on. The standard WA6 does hum for 5 seconds while the rectifier tube stabilizes. I was alarmed when I first noticed it. I asked Jack, and he said it was normal._

 

I see, thanks Glenn.


----------



## jc9394

Seem like Jack need to put in a soft start on regular WA6.


----------



## jc9394

One more thing I notice, the volume is a little louder after 30 minutes.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more thing I notice, the volume is a little louder after 30 minutes._

 

This I haven't noticed at all.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more thing I notice, the volume is a little louder after 30 minutes._

 

WOW I never noticed that before.


----------



## jc9394

only a little, not much. i think i only can tell because i listen around midnight and it is quiet that you can listen to a fly fly by. I was at 10 and have to scale back a little.


----------



## dannie01

Would it be because of midnight, the enviroment getting more silent at that time? Just guess, oh, it's now 13 minutes past 1 early in the morning (midnight?) in Honh Kong, it's not really that silent here, too much traffic and I have a highway near by.

 Edit. I'm still listening music through my WA6SE, DVORAK Symphony No. 9, From The New World, amazing.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seem like Jack need to put in a soft start on regular WA6._

 

I personally am not bothered by the hum since it only lasts a few seconds and is totally normal. It's at a low enough level where it wont damage your headphones. The reason Jack put a soft start circuit in the SE version is that there was a problem with compatibility with the Sofia Mesh Plate 274B aching upon turn-on. So now the voltage is brought up slowly to prevent aching. The Standard WA6 didn't have this problem since it runs at a lower internal voltage than it's big brother.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be because of midnight, the enviroment getting more silent at that time? Just guess, oh, it's now 13 minutes past 1 early in the morning (midnight?) in Honh Kong, it's not really that silent here, too much traffic and I have a highway near by.

 Edit. I'm still listening music through my WA6SE, DVORAK Symphony No. 9, From The New World, amazing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I do remember HK is very noisy even at night, that is around 10-15 years ago. Where I live now, it is dead quiet around 9-10PM.


----------



## dannie01

Oh, you've been live in HK? And yeah HK is very noisy even at night , except you are super rich to have your own house. I even have a very bad neighbour on my upper floor, they still creating some noise just like jumpping on the floor in half an hour ago, I make a complaint to the management office and it become quiet, so I can back to my music now.

 EDIT. Sorry for my derail of the topic.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, you've been live in HK? And yeah HK is very noisy even at night , except you are super rich to have your own house. I even have a very bad neighbour on my upper floor, they still creating some noise just like jumpping on the floor in half an hour ago, I make a complaint to the management office and it become quiet, so I can back to my music now.

 EDIT. Sorry for my derail of the topic._

 

Yup, live there until I'm 10. We migrated to Boston, US.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the 6FD7 you are running a fat bottle one?_

 

Yes indeed, RCA fat bottle ones.

 Simon


----------



## sling5s

To anyone:

 what makes bigger difference: sophia upgrade or pseudo power supply upgrade? 

 thanks


----------



## WalkGood

Can't tell you about the power supply, but sophia rocks, I really enjoyed that roll


----------



## atbglenn

Can't comment on the Sophia, but the Pseudo Dual PS is definitely worth $60 Jack's charging. It makes a very noticeable improvement in clarity during complex musical passages. Plus, it tightens up the bass a bit.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't comment on the Sophia, but the Pseudo Dual PS is definitely worth $60 Jack's charging. It makes a very noticeable improvement in clarity during complex musical passages. Plus, it tightens up the bass a bit._

 

Interesting, thanks and what phones?


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't comment on the Sophia, but the Pseudo Dual PS is definitely worth $60 Jack's charging. It makes a very noticeable improvement in clarity during complex musical passages. Plus, it tightens up the bass a bit._

 

I was told by Jack that because it's already been made, to ship it back and have the upgrade done would be $130. He said, it's more work since it's already built. So now I don't know if it's worth $130 plus shipping both ways.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting, thanks and what phones?_

 

HD650's


----------



## sling5s

Am I right? It seems like the pdps upgrade gives it clarity and tightness in bass but the sophia opens up the soundstage musically in both depth and width? 

 seems like the sophia is a better upgrade. especially because shipping it back to have it done is $130 plus shipping for already made woo 6.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was told by Jack that because it's already been made, to ship it back and have the upgrade done would be $130. He said, it's more work since it's already built. So now I don't know if it's worth $130 plus shipping both ways._

 

I had mine done about 9 months ago and paid $110 plus shipping (I forget what the shipping charges were) but $130 sounds about right.The $60 upgrade price is for a new amp. I'm still happy with my decision to have it done.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I right? It seems like the pdps upgrade gives it clarity and tightness in bass but the sophia opens up the soundstage musically in both depth and width? 

 seems like the sophia is a better upgrade. especially because shipping it back to have it done is $130 plus shipping for already made woo 6._

 

imo, the pdps is essential whereas the sophia is a luxury item...
 the pdps, started by jamato, opens up everything from the rectifiers to the
 drive/output tubes; ie., everything you put into the unit sound better...
 the sophia is very sweet but you're still being held back by the inferior
 circuit design of the non-pdps... why wooaudio hasn't incorporated the pdps
 into the stock wa6 is beyond my comprehension... 

 going off in a tangent-- newer drive/output tubes will need at least 2 hrs to
 heat up adequately to give the best sound. i've noticed run-in tubes with at least 500+
 hours don't need 2hrs. but at least 30 min. to sound focused and non-harsh.


----------



## sling5s

thanks, that's a good point.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_imo, the pdps is essential whereas the sophia is a luxury item...
 the pdps, started by jamato, opens up everything from the rectifiers to the
 drive/output tubes; ie., everything you put into the unit sound better...
 the sophia is very sweet but you're still being held back by the inferior
 circuit design of the non-pdps... why wooaudio hasn't incorporated the pdps
 into the stock wa6 is beyond my comprehension... 

 going off in a tangent-- newer drive/output tubes will need at least 2 hrs to
 heat up adequately to give the best sound. i've noticed run-in tubes with at least 500+
 hours don't need 2hrs. but at least 30 min. to sound focused and non-harsh._

 

thanks, that's a good point. darn, just ordered the sophia because don't want to be without the amp for awhile. maybe later.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks, that's a good point. darn, just ordered the sophia because don't want to be without the amp for awhile. maybe later._

 

It took a total of 10 days from the day I shipped it out, to the day I got it back. That's a pretty damn good turnaround if you ask me


----------



## takezo

about 2-3 weeks for those in the west coast, regarding turnaround for upgrades.


----------



## jc9394

According to Jack, the PDPS is a better upgrade than the Sofia princess.


----------



## Covenant

I have a request for any WA6SE owners who have some electonics skill/own the appropriate equipment:

 Could you test the power output of the WA6SE driving a 300Ohm load? I'm intending no disrespect to Jack, but I want to verify if the power output values he's given me are accurate.

 Thanks in advance if anyone can


----------



## indydieselnut

...what do people do to prep the pins of their NOS tubes? Every NOS tube I have has slightly discolored pins. I generally use some Caig cleaner on them but it rarely does anything to the color of the pins. I've never had any problems getting good electrical contacts but I'm wondering if anyone else has a better/different method? 

 I'm asking because I just received some new tubes from Jack - I believe they're 6FD7...I could be wrong. They're strange looking tubes...fat bottle, no brand (just 6FD7 and "USA") and they have the silver lining on the side of the tube. As I said before, I'm pretty tube stupid...

 Thanks!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

You may wanna take some pixs and show it here. I got a pair of 6FD7 from Tubeworld for comparison..


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...what do people do to prep the pins of their NOS tubes? Every NOS tube I have has slightly discolored pins. I generally use some Caig cleaner on them but it rarely does anything to the color of the pins. I've never had any problems getting good electrical contacts but I'm wondering if anyone else has a better/different method? 

 I'm asking because I just received some new tubes from Jack - I believe they're 6FD7...I could be wrong. They're strange looking tubes...fat bottle, no brand (just 6FD7 and "USA") and they have the silver lining on the side of the tube. As I said before, I'm pretty tube stupid...

 Thanks!_

 

The 6FD7 fat bottle are from Sylvania and they a lot better than 6DE7.


----------



## jc9394

question about burn in, do you guys stick the stock tube for burn in or just use Sofia princess for burn in.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_question about burn in, do you guys stick the stock tube for burn in or just use Sofia princess for burn in._

 

Since I'm doing the "slow" burn in (just through listening), I leave the Princess in there so that I get the benefit in the sound. I remember I was advised to use the stock tube if I was going to do the 12-hour-per-day route. 

 Thanks for the info on the Sylvania!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...what do people do to prep the pins of their NOS tubes? Every NOS tube I have has slightly discolored pins. I generally use some Caig cleaner on them but it rarely does anything to the color of the pins. I've never had any problems getting good electrical contacts but I'm wondering if anyone else has a better/different method? 

 I'm asking because I just received some new tubes from Jack - I believe they're 6FD7...I could be wrong. They're strange looking tubes...fat bottle, no brand (just 6FD7 and "USA") and they have the silver lining on the side of the tube. As I said before, I'm pretty tube stupid...

 Thanks!_

 

I usually use Flitz Metal Polish with a Q-tip and clean off any oxidation. Then I clean off any residual polish with 90% Isopropyl Alcohol. You won't be able to get off all the discoloration with that method, but it will be more than adequate for a good electrical connection.


----------



## dannie01

I use an old school method, I'll clean the pins with a ball pen eraser (all pins shine after that) then brush all ash and clean with 75% alcohol, that' it.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use an old school method, I'll clean the pins with a ball pen eraser (all pins shine after that) then brush all ash and clean with 75% alcohol, that' it._

 

That'll work too. But I like to use 91% isopropyl alcohol. It's available at most drug stores.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That'll work too. But I like to use 90% isopropyl alcohol. It's available at most drug stores._

 

Thanks for your advise Glenn, I'll try to find where I can get one, I tried before but they only have 75% available.


----------



## atbglenn

Danny,

 I'm sure 75% works fine. My theory is the higher the %, the less residue or impurities. But then again, I'm a freaking nut! LOL! Who else around here takes pictures of Alcohol bottles??????


----------



## dannie01

Well Glenn, you've took a very nice pic for a bottle of ALCOHOL.


----------



## takezo

hey, has anyone tried the 99.999999 % isopropyl and where can i get it?...lol

 ...i use the eraser method too.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey, has anyone tried the 99.999999 % isopropyl and where can i get it?...lol

 ...i use the eraser method too._

 

Wiseguy! LOL! Where can I get some???


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a request for any WA6SE owners who have some electonics skill/own the appropriate equipment:

 Could you test the power output of the WA6SE driving a 300Ohm load? I'm intending no disrespect to Jack, but I want to verify if the power output values he's given me are accurate.

 Thanks in advance if anyone can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

don't have the proper equipement but you'd need an oscilloscope, a dummy load
 or regulated dc power supply, some resistors, a tone generator and a multimeter... 
 and use ohm's law power= voltage squared/resistance


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wiseguy! LOL! Where can I get some???_

 

i'm sure the north koreans have it in their hidden silos...


----------



## indydieselnut

Okay, last tube question before we get this thread back on topic (wait, what was the original topic?) - 

 Who makes new production output tubes suitable for the WA6SE? I know the Sophia is new production but I'm having a hard time finding new production 6-series output tubes from the likes of Electro-harmonix, Sovtek, etc. Am I not looking in the right place? Are the tubes under a different designation? 

 Thanks for helping this tube-idiot!!


----------



## takezo

i don't know of anyone making the 6de7, 6ew7, 6fd7, 6cy7 nor the 6dr7 currently.
 but some tube dealers have hundreds of these tubes in genuine NOS condition. you can
 kind of tell the NOS tubes from used ones because the NOS will sound harsh and test
 mediocre initially. but after many hours the sound will mellow out and it will test better
 than initially in terms of transductance. i use vacuumtubes.net regularly and they're 
 very reliable and have good pricing. roy or dale will help alot with questions. try the
 horse-shoe getter type of these tubes. the horse-shoe doesn't make it sound better but
 it's indicative of its age. these are the older internal construction which generally tend
 to sound more refine.


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Danny,

 I'm sure 75% works fine. My theory is the higher the %, the less residue or impurities. But then again, I'm a freaking nut! LOL! Who else around here takes pictures of Alcohol bottles??????_

 


*I do.... !!! *












 ^^ that was a long night.....


 cheers,


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikeymad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I do.... !!! *












 ^^ that was a long night.....


 cheers,_

 

Great pics, so much more other than a Macallan.


----------



## atbglenn

Mikeymad,

 Care to share? I could use a drink right about now


----------



## SleepyOne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey, has anyone tried the 99.999999 % isopropyl and where can i get it?...lol

 ...i use the eraser method too._

 

Try this one:

Isopropyl Alcohol > Maplin


 And I too have posted whisky pic.....

 mikeymad - nice Ardbeg!


----------



## mikeymad

I have a bottle of 99% isopropyl, it cost a buck more than the 60% that was right next to it. I use it on Model train tracks... no resiude....

 anytime - atbglenn..... 

 Cheers,


----------



## LostChild1

Well, I'm a bit late to this party, but I JUST received my Woo Audio 6 w/ Sophia Princess & PDPS upgrades, and I must say, even after only listening to it for an hour or so with my HD650s, I already love it, and am hearing things I never have before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just to think that I'm not even close to burning it in (And I'm saving my Sophia for later) makes me one very, very happy camper.


----------



## atbglenn

LostChild1,

 Congrats on your new Woo. I've had mine for over a year now and I'm still in love with it.


----------



## mikeymad

x2


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

x3.. welcome 2 d club.


----------



## dannie01

X 4 Welcome and congrats on the wise choice.


----------



## LostChild1

Thanks guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm even more excited because as it stands right now, it's just Turntable > Pre-Amp > WA6 > HD650s

 But as I requested from Jack, I got a second input put in (at a small extra cost ) to be able to have both my PC and turntable hooked up simultaneously.

 HOWEVER, due to an unfortunate loss of data on my harddrive, I'm rebuilding my FLAC collection at the moment, and haven't had a chance to hook everything up properly.

 But once the final rig is done to my satisfaction, I'll be sure to post pics


----------



## atbglenn

Westinghouse and RCA 6DE7's made in the same factory ? It looks like it to me


----------



## olblueyez

Did Westinghouse even make tubes or did they just rebrand tubes from other makers?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did Westinghouse even make tubes or did they just rebrand tubes from other makers?_

 

Good question


----------



## jc9394

WA6 with HD600





 WA6 with W5000 (heaven, never heard my W5000 sing like this before)





 And the super sexy Sofia princess glow...


----------



## atbglenn

Jc, I love the star affect on the blue LED in the last photo. The Sophia looks amazing. I wish it wasn't so expensive!


----------



## indydieselnut

And the super sexy Sofia princess glow...





[/QUOTE]

 The tubes you have in this bottom pic are the same ones I just got from Jack. Did someone say these were made by Sylvania? Compared to my RCA 6EW7's, they just sound more POWERFUL...that's the initial impression, more listening needed. 

 Thanks!


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The tubes you have in this bottom pic are the same ones I just got from Jack. Did someone say these were made by Sylvania? Compared to my RCA 6EW7's, they just sound more POWERFUL...that's the initial impression, more listening needed. 

 Thanks!_

 

According to Jack, they are from Sylvania. I still waiting for my 6EW7 to arrive but compare to the stock 6DE7, it is more airy and bigger soundstage. I'm glad mention this tube to me when I order the amp.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jc, I love the star affect on the blue LED in the last photo. The Sophia looks amazing. I wish it wasn't so expensive!_

 

Yeah, that Sofia princess holds me back almost a month before I can buy the amp. Jack is super nice about this, I ordered the amp in early May and can't afford the Sofia at this time, so Jack offer me to pay for the Sofia just before he ship out the amp to save me a few bucks on shipping.


----------



## dannie01

jc, what kinda great pics you posted and the Sophia, really SEXY with the star effect of the led, thanks.


----------



## musicmind

Lovely pics jc9394, enjoy your WA6 amp


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jc, I love the star affect on the blue LED in the last photo. The Sophia looks amazing. I wish it wasn't so expensive!_

 

Glenn, you can also enjoy the sound from heaven for just $150 from Jack or Sophia Electric.


----------



## peanuthead

Mmmmm...Sophia


----------



## dannie01

Hey peanuthead, what a great pic of the Sophia you're stilll keeping and how's your process of up-garding to a balanced Woo amp?

 BTW, what kind of cameras and lens you guys are using, those pics are so GOOD.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mmmmm...Sophia



_

 

Damn! I'm getting weak!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, what kind of cameras and lens you guys are using, those pics are so GOOD._

 

I use a Nikon D40 with the Kit Lens. It takes great pictures most of the times. I'm far from being a pro. I just point and shoot most of the times, and hope for the best


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a Nikon D40 with the Kit Lens. It takes great pictures most of the times. I'm far from being a pro. I just point and shoot most of the times, and hope for the best_

 

But it still far beyond a Ricoh auto camera for an idiot can do, right?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, what kind of cameras and lens you guys are using, those pics are so GOOD._

 

I use Nikon D200 with 60mm Macro lens for my pics.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a *[size=medium]Nikon D40 [/size]*with the Kit Lens. It takes great pictures most of the times. I'm far from being a pro. I just point and shoot most of the times, and hope for the best_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use *[size=medium]Nikon D200 with 60mm Macro lens [/size]*for my pics._

 

Another money-burning hobby, head-fi is really an evil website I ever visited.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But it still far beyond a Ricoh auto camera for an idiot can do, right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Nikon D40 is their low end SLR. I'm sure it's better than your Ricoh point and shoot camera. The D40 has a point and shoot function, but is also totally manual for more advanced users. it can be had for less than $500 US. On the other hand, jc9394's D200 is to die for. I'm jealous!


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another money-burning hobby, head-fi is really an evil website I ever visited.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yup, it is evil. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 But I can justify it, just tell the wife that I use it to take pictures of our daughter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 This hobby...is another problem that I can't justify it my self.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey peanuthead, what a great pic of the Sophia you're stilll keeping and how's your process of up-garding to a balanced Woo amp?

 BTW, what kind of cameras and lens you guys are using, those pics are so GOOD._

 

Hey Dannie, I'm still waiting for the final verdict on Woo 22...but it may be awhile before I actually go balanced.

 My go to camera setup is: Canon 5D with 24-70mm 2.8L.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, it is evil. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 But I can justify it, just tell the wife that I use it to take pictures of our daughter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 This hobby...is another problem that I can't justify it my self.



_

 

I hear ya, I'm also into watches. Nice one BTW


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Dannie, I'm still waiting for the final verdict on Woo 22...but it may be awhile before I actually go balanced.

 My go to camera setup is: Canon 5D with 24-70mm 2.8L._

 

peanuthead,

 Good to hear you're still stick on the Woo Amp (am I became a fanboy of Woo Audio? Who knows and who cares.) The Woo22 is the one I'm wondering to up-garde in the near future, indeed, or a WA5LE??????????.


----------



## LostChild1

Out of curiousity, to those with the WA 6, around where do you put the volume knob? I find I need to have it at around 12 o'clock to get it loud enough. I'm wondering if it'll get "louder" as I burn it in (Still only used it about an hour! :O)


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of curiousity, to those with the WA 6, around where do you put the volume knob? I find I need to have it at around 12 o'clock to get it loud enough. I'm wondering if it'll get "louder" as I burn it in (Still only used it about an hour! :O)_

 

I don't think it will get louder with burn-in, but personally, I prefer being able to use the volume pot at 10-2 o'clock range, where it tends to be the "sweet spot" for most volume pots. I don't like having the gain too high where you can only go up to like 9-10 o'clock on the volume pot.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It will never get louder but it will open up the frequency spectrum after proper burn-in is achieved.


----------



## atbglenn

Depending on the CD I'm playing, my volume control is set between 11:00 to 2:00 for loud music. Older CD's tend to be set higher than newer CD's. One thing I should mention my ears have been put though hell during my younger years in rock bands I played in. My hearing may not be good as yours...


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It also depends on the output rating from the source.


----------



## indydieselnut

With a relatively strong output from the 840C and ears that are still at least average, I almost never go past about 9:30 on the dial with my WA6SE. The one exception can be older string ensemble recordings.


----------



## olblueyez

Might be able to get jack to lower the gain for you.


----------



## sclamb

Wow you guys! My volume never goes past around 8 o'clock, and at that setting I am around 85-90dB on the sound meter. If you are listening at up to 2 o'clock I seriously suggest you get a sound meter and see what volume is hammering your ears.

 Unless the gain on the WA6 is significantly less than that on the WA6SE maxed, you are probably way over 100-120dB, and that is not good at all.

 Simon


----------



## dannie01

It'll well depend on the output gain of the source that connected and also the recording gain of a CD. I have a DAC output with about 2.25V and I dail the volume pot normally at 9-10 o'clock, some older recording with lower gain will goes up to about 10:30 to 11 o'clock but never reach the post over 11. And I agree with Simon "*If you are listening at up to 2 o'clock I seriously suggest you get a sound meter and see what volume is hammering your ears.*"


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It'll well depend on the output gain of the source that connected and also the recording gain of a CD. I have a DAC output with about 2.25V and I dail the volume pot normally at 9-10 o'clock, some older recording with lower gain will goes up to about 10:30 to 11 o'clock but never reach the post over 11. And I agree with Simon "*If you are listening at up to 2 o'clock I seriously suggest you get a sound meter and see what volume is hammering your ears.*"_

 

From what I read, the WA6SE has significantly higher gain than the standard model. Anyone with a standard model besides me care to chime in?


----------



## melomaniac

I cannot imagine turning my 3+ much beyond noon with either AKGs or Beyers... well, maybe very occasionally, for a hard hit


----------



## LostChild1

Hm, okay so I'm right between 10-2 then, so that's okay, and I'm less worried now. 

 I'm listening from a purely vinyl source right now, so it might change when it's hooked to the PC with FLACs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's definitely not "hammering" my ears  I never listen that loud! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm only 18, I want to keep my hearing for a little while longer, you know?


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, okay so I'm right between 10-2 then, so that's okay, and I'm less worried now. 

 I'm listening from a purely vinyl source right now, so it might change when it's hooked to the PC with FLACs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's definitely not "hammering" my ears  I never listen that loud! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm only 18, I want to keep my hearing for a little while longer, you know? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, none of us here can hear the volume on your rig, so we cannot say if you are right to have the volume between 10-2.

 What I would recommend highly is getting a Radio Shack SPL meter and use it. You said you are only 18 so now is a good time to make sure you really are protecting your hearing.

 There are many of us at Head-Fi that suffer from tinnitus. Whether it has been caused by headphone listening at too loud a volume, or by other things, is immaterial. What it does teach us is to measure sound volumes and stay on the safe side of around 85dB if you listen for extended period of time.

 Simon


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, none of us here can hear the volume on your rig, so we cannot say if you are right to have the volume between 10-2.

 What I would recommend highly is getting a Radio Shack SPL meter and use it. You said you are only 18 so now is a good time to make sure you really are protecting your hearing.

 There are many of us at Head-Fi that suffer from tinnitus. Whether it has been caused by headphone listening at too loud a volume, or by other things, is immaterial. What it does teach us is to measure sound volumes and stay on the safe side of around 85dB if you listen for extended period of time.

 Simon_

 

That's a very good idea, and definitely some wise advice that I'm sure to follow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll probably head out tomorrow to get an SPL Meter (Might not be RadioShack, they all got bought out by Circuit City recently (Furthermore, I wonder how that works, now that CC is dead? :S))

 Anyway, thanks for the advice!


----------



## WalkGood

rarely ever past noon on pots, it's a wa6 and that's loud.


----------



## dannie01

I'm wondering this would be the case why LostChild1 goes the VC that high.






_Technical Details 
 THD <0.05%, input sensitivity 3.0mV
 142mm long / 73mm wide / 37mm high
 gold-plated jacks and black anodized metal casing
 output impedance 200 ohms, input 47k ohm /220 pF
*nominal / max output 300mV / 1.8V*_

 Also, the output gain is restricted by the pre-amp depends on the voulme control.


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


 Also, the output gain is restricted by the pre-amp depends on the voulme control. 
 

I don't exactly know what that means  Layman's terms please? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But if that's the case, is there another Pre-Amp you folks would suggest? (Hurting my wallet once again aren't you Head-Fi? Minimum Wage isn't enough for this hobby!)


----------



## dannie01

Which mean you have 2 volume control on your set-up, one in the 750 and the other in your Woo amp. My question is how you dail your VC on your 750, is it all the way up to max? You can get 1.8V output if you turn your VC to the max and this would be a little low as a source's output, normally 2.0V is more reasonable. Also, the SQ would be affected by an extra VC.

 Look for some MM phone amp with fix output gian for 2.0V or 2.25V but I dunno what exactly would cost. Do some google and may be eBay.

 Hope this help.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It also depends on the output tubes that are in used. I can't appreciate the 6FD7 that I have and rolled it back to the stock 6EW7 which is more pleasant to listen to. The 6FD7 has too much gain and too rich, volume can hardly pass 10 where I am enjoying 6EW7 at 1130 without going deaf.

 This is entire different scenario from my previous iPod to WA6 where decent volume was set to 4 o'clock. It confirms that WA6SE output is greater than WA6 and a decent DAC does helps.


----------



## LostChild1

My TC750 VC is all the way to the max, but I'll do some research on getting a new one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, as of right now I have all stock tubes in. I'm waiting to burn in a little bit before putting in the Sophia, so as to not "waste" her


----------



## jc9394

Wow, you guys listen to music loud. I usually between 9-10 and sometime go up to 11 and I use my iPhone as source.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, you guys listen to music loud. I usually between 9-10 and sometime go up to 11 and I use my iPhone as source._

 

Aren't your 6DF7's higher gain than 6DE7's? Maybe that's why your volume control is so low. Most of my CD's are played around 11:00 for a decent volume level. I've gone as high as 2:00 on certain older 60's recordings. There are so many variables such as how hot the performance was originally recorded, source, tubes, hearing sensitivity, etc..


----------



## melomaniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikeymad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I do.... !!! *





_

 

oh my god, ardbeg. I once bought a bottle of 1965 ardbeg, aged 25yrs - try as I might, it didn't last long...


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aren't your 6DF7's higher gain than 6DE7's? Maybe that's why your volume control is so low. Most of my CD's are played around 11:00 for a decent volume level. I've gone as high as 2:00 on certain older 60's recordings. There are so many variables such as how hot the performance was originally recorded, source, tubes, hearing sensitivity, etc.._

 

Maybe, I tried my other tubes but never pass 11.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *melomaniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh my god, ardbeg. I once bought a bottle of 1965 ardbeg, aged 25yrs - try as I might, it didn't last long..._

 

Nice! I am on the Ardbeg Committee and have nine different Ardbegs. Always have a bottle of Ardbeg Ten open, and currently sipping a Lord of the Isles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Simon


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe, I tried my other tubes but never pass 11._

 

6fd7 tubes are indeed higher gain but with my Cyrus CD6 SE and GS1000s I never went past 9 o'clock with any driver tubes in the sockets.

 Simon


----------



## Covenant

Still no shipping notice from Jack. I emailed him 3 days ago asking for a status update and didn't hear back from him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has anyone been in communication with him recently?


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still no shipping notice from Jack. I emailed him 3 days ago asking for a status update and didn't hear back from him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has anyone been in communication with him recently?_

 

I got an email back from him on Friday at around 8:17PM (Actually, exactly then, thanks Gmail. ) as he forgot to ship my R Headphone Stand along with my amp, so I had emailed him inquiring about it, and he shipped one off that day for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So he's around.

 How long has it been since you ordered Covenant? I was getting antsy about my order too, almost emailed him about it, but then let it slide for another week and voila, he shipped it out and sent me a notice / tracking number. The whole 9 yards


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still no shipping notice from Jack. I emailed him 3 days ago asking for a status update and didn't hear back from him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has anyone been in communication with him recently?_

 

Just about the feet for my amp. I had some "dry spells" communicating with Jack when I ordered my amp but he ALWAYS got to me eventually. I know it can be maddening when waiting for such an important piece of gear, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I also don't think it would be out-of-line after three days to forward him the email you sent again and ask him if he's received it.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also don't think it would be out-of-line after three days to forward him the email you sent again and ask him if he's received it._

 

I did just that, and he replied back with "It will ship tomorrow".

 And I just got my USPS tracking notice a moment ago. w00t


----------



## iTui

Hi, do you think that WA22 is good for HD800? I consider to get it for my cans. Thanks.


----------



## Speederlander

Can anyone recommend Channel Islands VDA-2 DAC with the WA6?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did just that, and he replied back with "It will ship tomorrow".

 And I just got my USPS tracking notice a moment ago. w00t 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That's great Covenant, it's on the way and youl'll get it eventually for the LONG wait, congrats.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Take some pics for your rig to share.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTui* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, do you think that WA22 is good for HD800? I consider to get it for my cans. Thanks._

 

I want to know either but seems Woo Audio is jsut on the stage of receiving the pre-oder of the WA22 so I think we have to wait awhile longer for an impression.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great Covenant, it's on the way and youl'll get it eventually for the LONG wait, congrats.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Take some pics for your rig to share.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The next step: Customs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh how I hate them.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The next step: Customs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh how I hate them._

 

Yeah, I admit that I admire and jealous that dvb-projekt is owning his custom WA5LE, that's an aweful amp.
















 And I agree with you, I hate them and I also hate myself why I'm poor.


----------



## Covenant

I think you and I might be talking about different types of customs  I was referring to import customs - you know, the people at the air port that snatch any parcel worth more than $1000 AUD and extort more money out of the importer before they release it


----------



## dannie01

Oh my, shame on me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I misunderstand what you mean, sorry, yeah the "custom".


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh my, shame on me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I misunderstand what you mean, sorry, yeah the "custom".
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My amp's already getting pretty heavily customised as it is, with the premium parts, teflon sockets and Sophia.

 To get any further I'd have to have gone the WA5LE, methinks.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did just that, and he replied back with "It will ship tomorrow".

 And I just got my USPS tracking notice a moment ago. w00t 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great news! Make sure to share some pics when you get it!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My amp's already getting pretty heavily customised as it is, with the premium parts, teflon sockets and Sophia.

 To get any further I'd have to have gone the WA5LE, methinks._

 

Except the Step Attenuator huh...


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except the Step Attenuator huh..._

 

Step Attenuator is really nice, I really like the feel of the clicks...


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Step Attenuator is really nice, I really like the feel of the clicks..._

 

Yup and with a price of course. I bit my fingers and pulled the trigger for the GoldPoint instead of DACT and it was an excellent choice made.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup and with a price of course. I bit my fingers and pulled the trigger for the GoldPoint instead of DACT and it was an excellent choice made._

 

Good to know you like very much of the GoldPoint, that's great but will it be too lound for just a few clicks like some members that stated what was happening on their DACT.


----------



## olblueyez

The Gold ALPS is Mack Daddy!


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to know you like very much of the GoldPoint, that's great but will it be too lound for just a few clicks like some members that stated what was happening on their DACT._

 

I did not notice it at all, sometime I do want to stop in between clicks but never thought it is too loud on few clicks. I think I have to be at least 5 clicks to 9.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks jc.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks jc._

 

NP, that is what we at head-fi for, help you spend money. It is always nice to help others to spend their hard earn money.


----------



## dannie01

Yeah, agree that's why we all here and thanks again for your great help on how to spending my money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 a GoldPoint is come close to my 6SE, very close, indeed.


----------



## jc9394

Tonight I decided to give the stock rectifier a shot (been using Sofia princess from day one), what a difference between Sofia and stock rectifier. The soundstage is so narrow and SQ is kind of flat and it does not pair well at all with my W5000. Now, I have to wait until the tubes cool down to switch back to Sofia princess.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to know you like very much of the GoldPoint, that's great but will it be too lound for just a few clicks like some members that stated what was happening on their DACT._

 

It never happen to me on GP but I find DACT less responsive with previous WA6M.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks buddy, I'll order a GoldPoint shortly.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks buddy, I'll order a GoldPoint shortly._

 

Instaling the GP on your own?


----------



## dannie01

Yep, an extra volume knob will also be ordered from Jack for the GoldPoint. I have a friend with his own workshop so I can have some metal work finished in the faceplate and volume knob with his drilling machine.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Here's my humble WooAudio setup.


----------



## dannie01

What a pretty Princess glowing in the pic but what is that black dual vu meter for?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What a pretty Princess glowing in the pic but what is that black dual vu meter for?_

 

That is the SlimDevices SB3. Forgot to remove the remote controller when I snap the pix.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It also depends on the output tubes that are in used. I can't appreciate the 6FD7 that I have and rolled it back to the stock 6EW7 which is more pleasant to listen to. The 6FD7 has too much gain and too rich, volume can hardly pass 10 where I am enjoying 6EW7 at 1130 without going deaf.

 This is entire different scenario from my previous iPod to WA6 where decent volume was set to 4 o'clock. It confirms that WA6SE output is greater than WA6 and a decent DAC does helps._

 

My earlier impression of 6FD7 with HD650 stock cable and result wasn't satisfactory as reported above. I received the SAA Noir Equinox yesterday and the scenario is entirely different now. The mids and low are well controlled with sweet highs. The Equinox is not break in yet, recommended for a 96 hour run in labelled on the packaging.

 I begin to like the sound of 6FD7 for now, still awaiting a Zu Ash and WE396A and Bendix 2C51 for the setup....


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tonight I decided to give the stock rectifier a shot (been using Sofia princess from day one), what a difference between Sofia and stock rectifier. The soundstage is so narrow and SQ is kind of flat and it does not pair well at all with my W5000. Now, I have to wait until the tubes cool down to switch back to Sofia princess._

 

Hearing this makes me very excited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using the stock rectifier (Have the Sophia sitting in it's box) so as to do some burn in on the drive tubes first, so when I pop in the sophia I know it'll be more than great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really looking forward to that day, not sure how much longer I can wait!


----------



## LostChild1

Is it normal for my drive tubes to get more "burned" on one side than another? 

 what I mean is like, the glass gets dark (Which I know should happen) but it's concentrated to around 7-8 o-clock (When looking at the tube from the top down) It's the exact same for each drive tube, so I assume it's not a problem, but I'm just being precautious  

 I'll try and snap a picture later, to show you what I mean, unless someone can understand what I mean and offer up an answer for me


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hearing this makes me very excited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using the stock rectifier (Have the Sophia sitting in it's box) so as to do some burn in on the drive tubes first, so when I pop in the sophia I know it'll be more than great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really looking forward to that day, not sure how much longer I can wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you ever try the Sofia princess? If not, I will pop that in before the 30 days warranty expired.


----------



## jc9394

It will be busy night tonight. I just received a package that contains the following tubes and it only cost me a little more than $50.

 2 Sylvania 6DE7
 2 Sylvania 6FD7 fat bottle
 2 GE 6FD7 fat bottle
 4 Sylvania 6EW7 fat bottle

 I can't wait until I get home...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it normal for my drive tubes to get more "burned" on one side than another? 

 what I mean is like, the glass gets dark (Which I know should happen) but it's concentrated to around 7-8 o-clock (When looking at the tube from the top down) It's the exact same for each drive tube, so I assume it's not a problem, but I'm just being precautious  

 I'll try and snap a picture later, to show you what I mean, unless someone can understand what I mean and offer up an answer for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Are you talking about getter flashing? Did the tubes develop the dark area, or come that way? What tubes are you using?


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you talking about getter flashing? Did the tubes develop the dark area, or come that way? What tubes are you using?_

 

6FD7. The tubes that came with my WA6. 
 I looked up Getter Flashing, and I believe only my Rectifier tube has that (Shiny silver area on the top of the tube. Which is normal) 

 The tubes came clear, and they're developing this dark area. To clarify it's not around the top of the tube, but around the cylindrical part of the tube. I'll try and snap a picture soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehe, good idea JC, I'll for sure pop it in, just to make sure it works. Getting it out will be the tough part I bet...  
 Also, have fun with those tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how it goes!


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My earlier impression of 6FD7 with HD650 stock cable and result wasn't satisfactory as reported above. I received the SAA Noir Equinox yesterday and the scenario is entirely different now. The mids and low are well controlled with sweet highs. The Equinox is not break in yet, recommended for a 96 hour run in labelled on the packaging.

 I begin to like the sound of 6FD7 for now, still awaiting a Zu Ash and WE396A and Bendix 2C51 for the setup...._

 

I'm loving the 6FD7 with my Mogami recable HD600, I will try the fat bottle 6EW7 tonight.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you ever try the Sofia princess? If not, I will pop that in before the 30 days warranty expired._

 

jc, I'll sugget pop-in your Sophia Princess during the beginning of burn-in,

 a/ to test if it works properly or not, my first 274B got wrong after about 50 hrs burn-in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, it's not working at all, not lightening up and I have replaced by Jack.

 b/ the Sophia need 50hrs least to brun-in for settle, pop it in now and run for 50-80 hrs ensure it to have the best performance then swap to another rectifier continue the job. Once your Woo being fully burn-in, pop it back again and you'll have the great SQ at once with you power tubes collection.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You don't have to wait for another 50 or so hours for the same work again.

 Just my 2 cents but I did it in my rig.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jc, I'll sugget pop-in your Sophia Princess during the beginning of burn-in,

 a/ to test if it works properly or not, my first 274B got wrong after about 50 hrs burn-in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, it's not working at all, not lightening up and I have replaced by Jack.

 b/ the Sophia need 50hrs least to brun-in for settle, pop it in now and run for 50-80 hrs ensure it to have the best performance then swap to another rectifier continue the job. Once your Woo being fully burn-in, pop it back again and you'll have the great SQ at once with you power tubes collection.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You don't have to wait for another 50 or so hours for the same work again.

 Just my 2 cents but I did it in my rig._

 

Exactly what I'm doing now, but I wait til my Sofia get to almost 100 hours before swapping out to the stock tube.


----------



## dannie01

Good move, I packed my Sophia back after 100hrs. I'm still waiting all BGs being fully burn-in, it's long time to go...............


----------



## jc9394

And I hated the sound with stock tube comparing to Sofia, I really missed her.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6FD7. The tubes that came with my WA6. 
 I looked up Getter Flashing, and I believe only my Rectifier tube has that (Shiny silver area on the top of the tube. Which is normal) 

 The tubes came clear, and they're developing this dark area. To clarify it's not around the top of the tube, but around the cylindrical part of the tube. I'll try and snap a picture soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehe, good idea JC, I'll for sure pop it in, just to make sure it works. Getting it out will be the tough part I bet...  
 Also, have fun with those tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how it goes!_

 


 So what you're saying there's no getter flashing at all which may explain why the tubes are developing dark areas. The Getter is flashed at the factory to remove impurities within the vacuum. Since your tubes seem not to be flashed, that may explain why your tubes are darkening. Maybe Skylab, Takezo, or Jamato can chime in. They are the experts


----------



## Rob N

How reliable are the Sophia 274B's


----------



## LostChild1

(I'm leaving them as links, since the pictures are large)

 Alright. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about... I'm not so good with terms, so maybe I was wrong  So take a look? Like, that doesn't look healthy does it? :S

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/499/img0204.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8453/img0206n.jpg

 And from the top down, notice only the rectifier has the Getter Flashing... (But I thought that was normal?)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8330/img0185y.jpg

 Next up, just pictures of my "rig" so to speak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9826/img0192r.jpg

 I then tried to be stylish with my turntable  But I'm no photographer...

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6739/img0197g.jpg

 And finally, I had asked Jack to give me two inputs on my WA6, and he obliged 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So here's a pic of that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1992/img0202.jpg


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about... I'm not so good with terms, so maybe I was wrong  So take a look?


 And from the top down, notice only the rectifier has the Getter Flashing... (But I thought that was normal?)
_

 

I think it is normal, all my driver tubes looks like this.






 EDIT - double checked my tubes, all my fat bottle 6EW7 and 6FD7 looks like that...what kind of tube you have?


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is normal, all my driver tubes looks like this.




_

 

Well, that makes me feel better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess if I knew how to you know, actually explain things, that might help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, time to pop in the Sophia Princess and see what it's all about (But Im keeping it in for only 100hrs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then I'm going to switch back, and save it for a little while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Also, as I'm new to the tube world (and eager to learn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) how long do each type of tube last? On average of course, for the Rectifiers (Sophia included) and the Drive/Power Tubes (Which I'm under the impression are the same things? Correct?)


----------



## atbglenn

Lost Child,

 Here are my Sylvania 6EW7 with side getters...Your tubes are fine


----------



## olblueyez

Those tubes have "side" getters.


----------



## LostChild1

I just popped i n the Sophia. And as you can see from my picture, I'm sitting here listening to it whilst on the computer (Not actually using the computer except for this post) but OH. MY. GOD.







 I can't wipe the smile off my face. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, thanks all for the quick responses, putting a new user at ease


----------



## jc9394

Glad I'm able to help, I'm a tube newb too...


----------



## atbglenn

I built my first tube amp in 1969, (a Dynakit Stereo 70 power amp) so I'm not a newbe. But I have to say I'm still not an expert...


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I built my first tube amp in 1969, (a Dynakit Stereo 70 power amp) so I'm not a newbe. But I have to say I'm still not an expert...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

:O
 I wasn't even alive then. Hahah. 

 How old were you when you built that amp? (For comparison, I'm 18 currently) 

 And before anyone asks, no I'm not rich, I have a minimum wage job, but I just save up for all my audio equipment, since it's what makes me the happiest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Also, I paid for that PC you see sitting there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Built 'er myself)


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_:O
 I wasn't even alive then. Hahah. 

 How old were you when you built that amp? (For comparison, I'm 18 currently) 

 And before anyone asks, no I'm not rich, I have a minimum wage job, but I just save up for all my audio equipment, since it's what makes me the happiest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Also, I paid for that PC you see sitting there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Built 'er myself)_

 

I was 17 the summer of 69 when I built my first tubed amp. I'm 57 now. It's hard to believe all this time went by. LostChild, I have belly button lint older than you! LOL!!! just kidding! That's gross!


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was 17 the summer of 69 when I built my first tubed amp. I'm 57 now. It's hard to believe all this time went by. LostChild, I have belly button lint older than you! LOL!!! just kidding! That's gross!_

 

Haha. That's very impressive none the less! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think I'd be so good at making my own, even with a kit. But who knows... I mean, I put my PC together... (But I have far more knowledge in that than I do in this... for now )

 I hope that I can keep this hobby up for as long as some of you have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's part of why I love music, because it's universal, and everyone of all ages can appreciate it and find common ground


----------



## atbglenn

LostChild,

 I'm a computer nerd myself. Check out my computer album I have in my profile.


----------



## sling5s

I'm really a newbie and this question was brought up but I still don't get it.
 the woo 3 is an OTL while the woo 6 is transformer coupled.

 It seems that OTL should perform better in theory with a more "tubier sound" and isn't this why those buying tube buy it for that reason; while transformer coupled has limitations and gives a more solid state sound which sounds defeating for a tube amp. So why is woo 3 cheaper and everyone purchasing the woo 6.

 does anyone have experience with both and why the woo 6 (transformer coupled) sounds better or performs better.

 thanks


----------



## olblueyez

Difference between the 3 and 3+ is the 3+ is transformer coupled, the Transformer output allows the amp to drive low impedance headphones much better than a simple OTL design. There is only one version of the 6 and it is a higher end model so it got output transformers so it will drive a bigger variety of headphones. Will the standard 3 give you better performance with high impedance headphones as compared to the 3+? I asked Jack and he said no, it is simply that the 3+ will drive a bigger variety of headphones. As for one sounding more tubey? I doubt it.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Difference between the 3 and 3+ is the 3+ is transformer coupled, the Transformer output allows the amp to drive low impedance headphones much better than a simple OTL design. There is only one version of the 6 and it is a higher end model so it got output transformers so it will drive a bigger variety of headphones. Will the standard 3 give you better performance with high impedance headphones as compared to the 3+? I asked Jack and he said no, it is simply that the 3+ will drive a bigger variety of headphones. As for one sounding more tubey? I doubt it.




_

 

I'm just rephrasing what you said: 
 Not all OTL tube amps are superior to transformer coupled tube amps. Maybe it's more about implementations and parts. 
 The logic being, since the woo 3 (being OTL) is not superior to woo 3+ (being transformer coupled), you're saying the woo 3 (OTL) should not be superior woo 6 (being transformer coupled). 

 Hope that's right. Thanks


----------



## atbglenn

The 3+ has a beefed up power supply utilizing a choke. A choke looks like a transformer, but it's not. A choke has one winding, (just a coil) unlike a transformer which has primary and secondary windings. That said, the 3+ is still an OTL design. On the other hand, the WA6 is transformer coupled...


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really a newbie and this question was brought up but I still don't get it.
 the woo 3 is an OTL while the woo 6 is transformer coupled.

 It seems that OTL should perform better in theory with a more "tubier sound" and isn't this why those buying tube buy it for that reason; while transformer coupled has limitations and gives a more solid state sound which sounds defeating for a tube amp. So why is woo 3 cheaper and everyone purchasing the woo 6.

 does anyone have experience with both and why the woo 6 (transformer coupled) sounds better or performs better.

 thanks_

 

well than...I guess I'm back to the same question


----------



## olblueyez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just rephrasing what you said: 
 Not all OTL tube amps are superior to transformer coupled tube amps. Maybe it's more about implementations and parts. 
 The logic being, since the woo 3 (being OTL) is not superior to woo 3+ (being transformer coupled), you're saying the woo 3 (OTL) should not be superior woo 6 (being transformer coupled). 

 Hope that's right. Thanks_

 

Nope, what I said what its not about better sound, its about compatibility with low impedance headphones. The WA6 is a higher end model and comparing the WA3 or WA3+ to the WA6 is like comparing a Chevy to a Cadillac.

 Read:

  Quote:


 *WooAudio 3* - Single-Ended OTL, Class A Vacuum Tube Headphone & Pre Amplifier 
 An excellent value and performance for *high impedance* or high sensitive headphones 
 

Read:

  Quote:


 *WooAudio 3+* is an enhanced model of the WooAudio 3, featuring a filter choke in the power supply while removing the pre-amplifier output scheme. The WA3+ increases output power and thus better synergy with *low impedance headphones* than the WA3. This model retains sound signature of the WooAudio3 as it pushes to a higher performance horizon. 
 

Woo Audio Sound of Excellence Products


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I built my first tube amp in 1969, (a Dynakit Stereo 70 power amp) so I'm not a newbe. But I have to say I'm still not an expert...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 I built my first tube amp around 1959, a Knight Kit, 10w/channel. If I remember correctly I paid $39.00. I had to wire the whole thing, no circuit boards like the more expensive Knight Kits. I gave to the Neighborhood kid who was into audio, that was around 1966.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatcat28037* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I built my first tube amp around 1959, a Knight Kit, 10w/channel. If I remember correctly I paid $39.00. I had to wire the whole thing, no circuit boards like the more expensive Knight Kits. I gave to the Neighborhood kid who was into audio, that was around 1966._

 

In 1959 my dad and I built a crystal radio together. Remember those? I was only 7 at the time. Pretty ancient stuff. I do remember Knight Kits. Lafayette Electronics used to sell them if I remember correctly..

 Update: I was wrong. Allied Electronics sold Knight Kits.


----------



## number1sixerfan

I have a confession to make....I switched from the WA5 to the WA22. I just couldn't find enough interest in high efficiency speakers, plus I am curious as hell about balanced output with the HD800. Jack was extremely flexible and it will be here around mid august.


----------



## Ricey20

Join the club! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What color are you getting? Silver for me.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Join the club! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What color are you getting? Silver for me._

 

Black! Unfortunately the wait will be longer than the WA5, but I'll be ok.


----------



## dannie01

Welcome number1sixerfan, the WA22 is still in a pre-ordering status learning from Woo's website, any idea how long you've to wait?


----------



## olblueyez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black! Unfortunately the wait will be longer than the WA5, but I'll be ok._

 

Black, nicely done!


----------



## number1sixerfan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome number1sixerfan, the WA22 is still in a pre-ordering status learning from Woo's website, any idea how long you've to wait?_

 

Jack said mid to end of August.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

That a long wait huh... Congrats anyway...


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black, nicely done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I love that dust sucker color - BLACK!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I love that dust sucker color - BLACK!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That was the reason I stayed away from black if options availale but it doesn't mean that I do not like black.... I wish to have all black setup but ......


----------



## number1sixerfan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That a long wait huh... Congrats anyway..._

 

Yea. I think it's because it is a new product, from my understanding, all of the units will not be ready until then. The WA5 would have been ready in about 5 weeks, which actually works out to be around August anyway. lol 

 Hopefully, I can keep my mind off of it.


----------



## shellylh

I am very curious about the WA22 + HD800 combo. I tried the WA22 with HD580 or 600 and K701 at CanJam and I liked it *a lot*. If I didn't already have a WA5 LE, I would probably order one. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a confession to make....I switched from the WA5 to the WA22. I just couldn't find enough interest in high efficiency speakers, plus I am curious as hell about balanced output with the HD800. Jack was extremely flexible and it will be here around mid august._


----------



## number1sixerfan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am very curious about the WA22 + HD800 combo. I tried the WA22 with HD580 or 600 and K701 at CanJam and I liked it *a lot*. If I didn't already have a WA5 LE, I would probably order one._

 

Does anyone know if the WA22 can power the K1000? I see that it has the connector for it, but am unsure. Any talks about that at canjam?


----------



## shellylh

I am guessing not really but Jack would know best. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if the WA22 can power the K1000? I see that it has the connector for it, but am unsure. Any talks about that at canjam?_


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I love that dust sucker color - BLACK!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So what are everyone's tricks for keeping the "correct" color Woo's looking good? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once cool, I blast mine with some compressed air about once a week. It works pretty well but what do people use when you REALLY want it clean? Slightly damp rag and elbow grease?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what are everyone's tricks for keeping the "correct" color Woo's looking good? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once cool, I blast mine with some compressed air about once a week. It works pretty well but what do people use when you REALLY want it clean? Slightly damp rag and elbow grease?_

 

I use a slightly damp microfiber cloth every once in a while on my silver WA6. It does the job well


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a slightly damp microfiber cloth every once in a while on my silver WA6. It does the job well_

 

Me too but I'll remove the dust by a brush before the damp cloth.


----------



## Covenant

USPS Track and Confirm

 Detailed Results:

 Out of Foreign Customs, June 27, 2009, 2:59 pm, AUSTRALIA
 Into Foreign Customs, June 27, 2009, 2:53 pm, AUSTRALIA
 Arrived Abroad, June 27, 2009, 2:53 pm, AUSTRALIA
 International Dispatch, June 25, 2009, 7:43 am, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)


 Refresh. Refresh. Refresh. KEEP GOING DAMN YOU!


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what are everyone's tricks for keeping the "correct" color Woo's looking good? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once cool, I blast mine with some compressed air about once a week. It works pretty well but what do people use when you REALLY want it clean? Slightly damp rag and elbow grease?_

 

Rather than blast air, I use a micro vacuum attachment kit like the one below. The soft bristle or slim tip work best, even fits nice around the tube base, I follow up with damp microfiber cloth and a dry one to finish. Although while not in use, I keep a cloth cover over my amp.

 You can find these kits on the net or sears for around $10.00 to $20.00 and it fits on your current vacuum. BTW, the pic below doesn't show how small these tips are, think around the diameter of a drinking straw. Also works great on keyboards.


----------



## KingStyles

Great, I can see the next thread already. Audiophile Vacuums and the People Who Need Them.


----------



## Covenant

The WA6SE has landed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Damn deceiving USPS tracking. It lists it as "cleared customs", but doesn't seem to have updated past that, so I wasn't expecting it to arrive. Not that I'm complaining, it was a very pleasant surprise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cant wait to get it home


----------



## dannie01

That's great Covenant, please post some pics and share your impression.


----------



## olblueyez

I would think that someone who can afford a Woo headphone amplifier could manage to have some of these around. You can even get them in Lilac so your amp will smell as good as it looks. They sell them at the Grocery store. We have a 3 year old Plasma TV, I have never used a liquid cleaner on it, these do just fine.


----------



## M3NTAL

Pledge works good on brushed aluminum also. It is one of the few things to get rid of finger prints.


----------



## olblueyez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *M3NTAL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pledge works good on brushed aluminum also. It is one of the few things to get rid of finger prints._

 

Spray Wax?


----------



## Covenant

Finally got the WA6SE home. Geez this thing is heavy. The pics don't do justice to how bloody solid and hefty these amps are.

 Sophia box folded out greets one on opening the parcel:





 Out comes the PSU:










 Amp section with the Sophia safely tucked away:










 All set up with the Pico DAC and the HD600's looking on approvingly:





 Closeups of the Pico alongside, connected via Twisted Cables cryoparts braided RCA interconnects:











 Initial impressions:
 The first thing I noticed was an annoying hissing/low level noise that was audible in quiet passages of music. After some experimentation plugging/unplugging cables, the USB cable to the Pico DAC turned out to be at fault. Either it was a dodgy USB socket in the computer, or it was picking up interference from all the cables back there. I moved it to the front socket and the hiss dissapeared. I'd never heard/noticed that before, when using the Pico DAC/Amp.

 That minor hurdle over with, I sat back to listen to my favourite genre: progressive metal. And after a few minutes, it became very apparent what I had been missing, running the HD600 straight out of a Pico DAC/Amp: Dynamics!

 Even with no burn-in (I know those blackgates will take ages), and still using stock tubes at this point (the Sophia will stay nestled in her box until the amp comes of age), the sound is very satisfying. No excessive tube mellowness, good dynamics and PRaT.

 Anywhos, enough of posting. Back to listening


----------



## LostChild1

Glad to hear you got it safe and sound Covenant! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I thought the same thing about USPS! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also agree about the weight of the package. I mean, in pictures these things don't look THAT heavy, but when you get that box, it's a whole different story. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you're enjoying it so far (just as I am with mine) but as was suggested to me, try to burn in the Sophia for around 50 hours now, so that A) you know that it works, and B) it'll get a good amount of burn in so that when you do put it back in later, all your parts are in fact, burned in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I guess we're both back to listening now!


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you're enjoying it so far (just as I am with mine) but as was suggested to me, try to burn in the Sophia for around 50 hours now, so that A) you know that it works, and B) it'll get a good amount of burn in so that when you do put it back in later, all your parts are in fact, burned in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I guess we're both back to listening now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd rather not, really. I plan on listening as it burns in, and if I get used to Sophia sound, I wouldn't be able to switch back to the stock rectifier for another 400 hours 0_0

 I'll try it out briefly tomorrow and make sure that it can make music, but then its going back in its box methinks


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Great pictures Covenant. Surprised to see the stock tube came with a box. My both purchase came naked though. My sharing what output tubes are tubes, they look chinese tubes.

 Meanwhile enjoying listening to your new toy and the amp cooking ya.


----------



## dannie01

Congrats Covenant and great pics. You'll enjoy your WA6SE and like it even more after the burn-in, anyway, welcome to the unite.


----------



## LostChild1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd rather not, really. I plan on listening as it burns in, and if I get used to Sophia sound, I wouldn't be able to switch back to the stock rectifier for another 400 hours 0_0

 I'll try it out briefly tomorrow and make sure that it can make music, but then its going back in its box methinks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's what I said too. But now my Sophia sits there, and I'm loving it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, back to my volume issue. Now that I have my PC hook-up working a-ok, my volume knob stays at around 9 o'clock to be comfortable. But when I switch to my vinyl rig, it's back to about 12. So I guess it's my pre-amps low output fault I'm working on getting the cash to buy a new one


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LostChild1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I said too. But now my Sophia sits there, and I'm loving it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, back to my volume issue. Now that I have my PC hook-up working a-ok, my volume knob stays at around 9 o'clock to be comfortable. But when I switch to my vinyl rig, it's back to about 12. So I guess it's my pre-amps low output fault I'm working on getting the cash to buy a new one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had worse experience than yours when I was feeding via iPod Classic. I was listening at almost 3~4 o'clock knob position via the line-out dock to WA6SE. It is a different scenario now with the new rig per my signature.


----------



## qusp

nice one man, looks great!!! cant wait to hear it at the meet.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got the WA6SE home. Geez this thing is heavy. The pics don't do justice to how bloody solid and hefty these amps are._

 

Best of luck with your new WA6SE! Looks great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like you got the teflon tube socket upgrade. How do the tubes fit? Nice and tight I would imagine?


----------



## qusp

yep that woo is pretty fully loaded


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like you got the teflon tube socket upgrade. How do the tubes fit? Nice and tight I would imagine?_

 

Yeah no issues with the tube fit. They seem slightly misaligned in the cut-outs in the chassis - as in, the teflon socket itself is slightly angled to make the tube off-centre - but that's only a cosmetic issue. The connection itself feels very secure.


----------



## Johnnie

I am definitely late to the party. It's great to see so much love for the Woos. In persusing the thread, I noticed no GES. I hope this thread is not just for the dynamic amps. 

 In looking at upgrading my Stax amp, the GES was a no brainer. It's really no more expensive than Stax's top offering (SRM-007). Like all Woo amps, it really is a great design aesthetic. 

 I have the GES with the upgrades (the package Jack offers) along with the better tubes. I'm definitely glad I got the better tubes as I listened to the stock tubes and they were definitely not to my liking. 

 At some point, I will post pictures for those who are interested.


----------



## atbglenn

Johnnie,

 I'd love to see some pictures. Please post some internal shots as well


----------



## dannie01

Welcome Johnnie and you're the first GES owner to join us. And yes, please post some pics.


----------



## pongz

Finally got mine....


----------



## dannie01

Your combo looks great pongz, how's the sound with Isabellina and Mark Mod Dennon with your Woo 6?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got the WA6SE home. Geez this thing is heavy. The pics don't do justice to how bloody solid and hefty these amps are.

 [snip]







 Initial impressions:
 The first thing I noticed was an annoying hissing/low level noise that was audible in quiet passages of music. After some experimentation plugging/unplugging cables, the USB cable to the Pico DAC turned out to be at fault. Either it was a dodgy USB socket in the computer, or it was picking up interference from all the cables back there. I moved it to the front socket and the hiss dissapeared. I'd never heard/noticed that before, when using the Pico DAC/Amp.

 That minor hurdle over with, I sat back to listen to my favourite genre: progressive metal. And after a few minutes, it became very apparent what I had been missing, running the HD600 straight out of a Pico DAC/Amp: Dynamics!

 Even with no burn-in (I know those blackgates will take ages), and still using stock tubes at this point (the Sophia will stay nestled in her box until the amp comes of age), the sound is very satisfying. No excessive tube mellowness, good dynamics and PRaT.

 Anywhos, enough of posting. Back to listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't forget to tell everyone I picked out your rig for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ENJOY!

 Here is my maxed GES:






 And here is my maxed WA6 with GES in my bedroom:


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget to tell everyone I picked out your rig for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You've always been bad for my wallet Larry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks dude.


----------



## dannie01

Wooh Larry, I can see a bunch of phones on the floor, impressive set-up pic although it look a bit messy in the first one.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wooh Larry, I can see a bunch of phones on the floor, impressive set-up pic although it look a bit messy in the first one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The first one was at a head-fi mini-meet (can't recall if it was with Sherwood, Naamanf or plaidplatypus. We decided to snap a photo before we put away the gear.


----------



## KingStyles

Hey pongz, how doed that woo sound with the isabellina? I have the isabellina and thinking of pairing it with the wa5 and was curious how woo amps synergize with the isabellina.


----------



## Frihed89

I am glad to see so much support for a mfr. I have never even heard a Woo amp. But I have looked and I have a question.

 Why are the 6 models more popular than the 5 models? I have never seen or even heard about this 6DE7 tube. I am assuming the power tube section is indirectly heated, is that correct? The 300B tubes in the 5 models are DHT triodes, which I am nuts about --- given the proper output transformers. But I see hardly any discussion about the 5 models while the 6 models draw raves.

 Perhaps the implementation of the circuit is not as good as in the 6s?


----------



## pongz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey pongz, how doed that woo sound with the isabellina? I have the isabellina and thinking of pairing it with the wa5 and was curious how woo amps synergize with the isabellina._

 

Sounds great to me. Sound stage is slightly larger and the vocals are silky smooth as if they were floating on another plane.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 especially so with the Sophia compared to the stock tube.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frihed89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are the 6 models more popular than the 5 models?_

 

Base model prices

 WA6 - $585
 WA6SE - $1050
 WA5 - $3150
 WA5LE - $2500

 I really think that's the explanation, right there. And the price spread increases as you look at upgrades and tube rolling costs, as many here do. What discussion I've read about the WA5 amps seems to be in the high end forums, and seems very positive to me. But it's clearly a smaller crowd, as you say.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Base model prices

 WA6 - $585
 WA6SE - $1050
 WA5 - $3150
 WA5LE - $2500

 I really think that's the explanation, right there. And the price spread increases as you look at upgrades and tube rolling costs, as many here do. What discussion I've read about the WA5 amps seems to be in the high end forums, and seems very positive to me. But it's clearly a smaller crowd, as you say._

 

I agree that the above is kinda self explanatory.....


----------



## mikeymad

I rave about my WA5 all the time... but yep... it is a small crowd...

 Cheers,


----------



## socrates63

No WA4 owners? There was one recently up for sale and I hesitated too long.


----------



## Covenant

I've just got back from a meet and noticed that the volume knob on the amp section of my WA6SE is loose and wobbles somewhat to the touch.

 Does anyone have an idea how I would tighten it?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just got back from a meet and noticed that the volume knob on the amp section of my WA6SE is loose and wobbles somewhat to the touch.

 Does anyone have an idea how I would tighten it?_

 

Get a 2mm hex wrench will do the job.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get a 2mm hex wrench will do the job._

 

Ah, so it is just tightening that little hex key in the socket? K, I can manage that


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, so it is just tightening that little hex key in the socket? K, I can manage that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It was the culmination of the enthusiasm towards the hd600 paired with ur woo that caused the knob prob


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was the culmination of the enthusiasm towards the hd600 paired with ur woo that caused the knob prob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No playing with my knobs! I'm keeping a close eye on you in the future, buster


----------



## Johnnie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome Johnnie and you're the first GES owner to join us. And yes, please post some pics._

 

Thanks for the kind words. Pictures will be forthcoming. I just need to dig my tripod out of the basement (dig is the operative word) so I can get some nice night time pictures with the tubes. I don't know if I'll open it as I'm always afraid of not being able to put it back together again. My wife can attest to this based on the number of times I've had to call a repairman to finish something I thought I could easily fix myself.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnnie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind words. Pictures will be forthcoming. I just need to dig my tripod out of the basement (dig is the operative word) so I can get some nice night time pictures with the tubes. I don't know if I'll open it as I'm always afraid of not being able to put it back together again. My wife can attest to this based on the number of times I've had to call a repairman to finish something I thought I could easily fix myself._

 

You beat me to this thread with your GES by 2 hours.


----------



## Johnnie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You beat me to this thread with your GES by 2 hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Definitely one of the few times I'm actually somewhat on top of things. Now if I can just get some pictures taken.


----------



## sling5s

I just received my woo 6 back with pdps upgrade.
 I'm somewhat dumfounded. I liked it better before the upgrade with the hd800. Maybe because the bass was not as tight, but I felt it had more bass before the upgrade. I also don't sense greater power? 

 Does the pdps take time to burn in?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my woo 6 back with pdps upgrade.
 I'm somewhat dumfounded. I liked it better before the upgrade with the hd800. Maybe because the bass was not as tight, but I felt it had more bass before the upgrade. I also don't sense greater power? 

 Does the pdps take time to burn in?_

 

depends... does it have blackgate caps? if yes, the additional cap needed
 for the pdps may take some hours to settle. if no, the sound won't change
 much with additional burn-in. unless jack now uses caps i haven't heard of...

 just to clarify, are you saying that you don't like the tighter bass now?
 using a 5u4g rca or philco rectifier will give you a more loose bass...
 power is not increased btw...the distribution of power is improved... resulting
 in better transparency, transient handling and overall resolution. you may be
 thinking of higher gain... which is another story all together. jack can raise
 the gain by changing out cap and resistor values in certain sections of the
 circuit. but you're better off using a 6fd7, 6cy7 or 6dr7 to raise the gain
 by up to 30%.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_depends... does it have blackgate caps? if yes, the additional cap needed
 for the pdps may take some hours to settle. if no, the sound won't change
 much with additional burn-in. unless jack now uses caps i haven't heard of...

 just to clarify, are you saying that you don't like the tighter bass now?
 using a 5u4g rca or philco rectifier will give you a more loose bass...
 power is not increased btw...the distribution of power is improved... resulting
 in better transparency, transient handling and overall resolution. you may be
 thinking of higher gain... which is another story all together. jack can raise
 the gain by changing out cap and resistor values in certain sections of the
 circuit. but you're better off using a 6fd7, 6cy7 or 6dr7 to raise the gain
 by up to 30%._

 

with denons I would love the tighter bass but I guess with the hd800, I think it's so bass tight than a looser bass would actually be nice. it's odd i know.
 but thanks for the recommending the power tubes. 
 I guess I'll try tube rolling in the future. for now i spent too much on the pdps and sophia.

 thanks


----------



## Covenant

How did you all burn in your Woo's? My WA6SE has the premium parts upgrade, and I've been told the blackgates take upwards of 500hrs to reach their final sound. But Jack recommends not running the amp continuously for more than 8hrs at a time, and not to leave the amp running unattended.

 Which means burning in this thing is going to take aaaaages. At 8hrs a day, that's 62.5 days - or 9 weeks - before the amp is burned in. I'm trying to hold out on using the Sophia or the drive tube replacements (Raytheons) until the amp's at 400hrs, but I'm shuffling my feet impatiently already


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How did you all burn in your Woo's? My WA6SE has the premium parts upgrade, and I've been told the blackgates take upwards of 500hrs to reach their final sound. But Jack recommends not running the amp continuously for more than 8hrs at a time, and not to leave the amp running unattended.

 Which means burning in this thing is going to take aaaaages. At 8hrs a day, that's 62.5 days - or 9 weeks - before the amp is burned in. I'm trying to hold out on using the Sophia or the drive tube replacements (Raytheons) until the amp's at 400hrs, but I'm shuffling my feet impatiently already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i turned on the amp when i woke and turned if off when i went to sleep for
 the first several weeks... not a good idea when i think about it now but the
 wife checked on it whenever she came back home from school during that time.
 later, i left it on for 4-6 hrs. at a time until i could no longer distinguish any
 fluctuation in sonics. this is what i observed, if i remember correctly:

 1-200 hrs.: rapid changes... almost hour to hour from great to congested.
 200- 500: still observed changes but latency was longer in duration.
 day to day and week to week.
 500-800: very long latency periods of great followed by congested sound. almost
 gave up during bad stretch in thinking something was wrong with the caps.
 lasted weeks it seemed. 
 800 to present: can't remember hearing any significant changes in sonics.
 settled at vastly transparent and responsive to changes in rectifier and
 drive tubes.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1-200 hrs.: rapid changes... almost hour to hour from great to congested.
 200- 500: still observed changes but latency was longer in duration.
 day to day and week to week.
 500-800: very long latency periods of great followed by congested sound. almost
 gave up during bad stretch in thinking something was wrong with the caps.
 lasted weeks it seemed. 
 800 to present: can't remember hearing any significant changes in sonics.
 settled at vastly transparent and responsive to changes in rectifier and
 drive tubes._

 

Ugg, so you experienced changes even after the 500hr mark, to the degree of week-long streches of congestion?

 And here I thought the marathon would end at 500hrs. 800hrs instead...
 /dies.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my woo 6 back with pdps upgrade.
 I'm somewhat dumfounded. I liked it better before the upgrade with the hd800. Maybe because the bass was not as tight, but I felt it had more bass before the upgrade. I also don't sense greater power? 

 Does the pdps take time to burn in?_

 

Absolutely needs to burn-in again - I got the PDPS done May 2008 and it took 3-4 months of normal use to burn-in again (my maxed WA6 required moar blackgates for the PDPS).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with denons I would love the tighter bass but I guess with the hd800, I think it's so bass tight than a looser bass would actually be nice. it's odd i know.
 but thanks for the recommending the power tubes. 
 I guess I'll try tube rolling in the future. for now i spent too much on the pdps and sophia.

 thanks_

 

Oh! The Sophia takes 20-25 hours to sound good, and 80 to fully burn-in.

 COVENANT - It took 500 hours before I could say I was going to keep my maxed WA6, and another 400-500 hours before the PDPS and Sophia made it sound like the best amp I've owned.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am at 400+ hours mark now and still cooking. I just received a pair of Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 and it sounds great in comparison with the other tubes I have in my inventory. I am looking forward for a better result when the output tube is burn-in.

 Side note, the SP is an excellent rectifier which shouldn't be missed and I am glad that I got that in placed for excellent performance.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_COVENANT - It took 500 hours before I could say I was going to keep my maxed WA6, and another 400-500 hours before the PDPS and Sophia made it sound like the best amp I've owned._

 

/dies more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm a little better off in that regard, though. The WA6SE at 75hrs might already be the best amp I've owned


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_/dies more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm a little better off in that regard, though. The WA6SE at 75hrs might already be the best amp I've owned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad to hear that you enjoy listening to the WA6SE even without SP... Try again when you amp is mature and ready to take in the SP and other output tubes. It is another dimension you would love even more.


----------



## sling5s

I was wondering what the advantages are in sound for the 6EW7 over the 6DE7 and if I could directly substitute the 6EW7 for the 6DE7 on my regular woo 6?


----------



## jc9394

For me, the fat bottle 6EW7 has slightly bigger sound stage and smooth on female vocal than the stock 6DE7. Yes, you can use 6EW7 instead 6DE7. Try 6FD7, I really like it with my HD600.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, the fat bottle 6EW7 has slightly bigger sound stage and smooth on female vocal than the stock 6DE7. Yes, you can use 6EW7 instead 6DE7. Try 6FD7, I really like it with my HD600._

 

could you describe the sound characteristics of the 6FD7 compared to 6DE7 and 6EW7

 thanks


----------



## indydieselnut

The one thing I noticed with the fat-bottle Sylvania 6FD7 is that they appear to produce more gain in my WA6SE. Admittedly, I listen at pretty low levels but the 6FD7 wouldn't let me get past 8 o'clock on the dial with my GS1Ki 'phones. I put the 6EW7 RCAs back in and I was back to 9-10 o'clock on the same material. 

 I don't know if this is consistent with what others have experienced - just sharing what happened to me. I didn't leave them in long enough to discover their other sonic attributes...


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one thing I noticed with the fat-bottle Sylvania 6FD7 is that they appear to produce more gain in my WA6SE. Admittedly, I listen at pretty low levels but the 6FD7 wouldn't let me get past 8 o'clock on the dial with my GS1Ki 'phones. I put the 6EW7 RCAs back in and I was back to 9-10 o'clock on the same material. 

 I don't know if this is consistent with what others have experienced - just sharing what happened to me. I didn't leave them in long enough to discover their other sonic attributes..._

 

Same here. The 6fd7 is a higher gain tube and so increases the volume. I rarely get past 8 either.

 Simon


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, the fat bottle 6EW7 has slightly bigger sound stage and smooth on female vocal than the stock 6DE7. Yes, you can use 6EW7 instead 6DE7. Try 6FD7, I really like it with my HD600._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one thing I noticed with the fat-bottle Sylvania 6FD7 is that they appear to produce more gain in my WA6SE. Admittedly, I listen at pretty low levels but the 6FD7 wouldn't let me get past 8 o'clock on the dial with my GS1Ki 'phones. I put the 6EW7 RCAs back in and I was back to 9-10 o'clock on the same material. 

 I don't know if this is consistent with what others have experienced - just sharing what happened to me. I didn't leave them in long enough to discover their other sonic attributes..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here. The 6fd7 is a higher gain tube and so increases the volume. I rarely get past 8 either.

 Simon_

 

Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7 indeed have bigger soundstage than the stock tubes and Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7 will make your volume control lesser in view of of the additional gain. I am settling down with the for now.


----------



## jc9394

Does new tubes hiss before burn in? My new pair of fat bottle 6EW7 has very very low hiss. The old pair does not make any sound at all.


----------



## takezo

tubes don't hiss from my experience... some NOS types do make noise but usually goes
 away seconds later. if the noise doesn't go away after 10 minutes you probably have
 dirty contact pins. try cleaning the tube pins. if that doesn't work, move on to another
 tube set.


----------



## jc9394

I will try to clean the pins tonight, I received them last night and plug them in without cleaning to test to make sure they are good.


----------



## takezo

you may want to think about getting an inexpensive tube tester. most tube testers are
 no where near accurate even when calibrated. if you want 1 to 5% deviation from accurate
 you'll have to pay upwards of $1800 to find a state of the art tube tester. but what an
 inexpensive tube tester will do for you is weed out the bad tubes with short issues. most
 tube testers have the short test function and can be had for less than $150.


----------



## sling5s

What is the most tubiest tube for the woo 6.
 Many say that the woo 6 with the 6de7 can be very solid state like in characteristics.
 and some say the 6ew7 gives the woo 6 a tube like sound.
 Which will give the woo 6 the most tube like sound/characteristics?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the most tubiest tube for the woo 6.
 Many say that the woo 6 with the 6de7 can be very solid state like in characteristics.
 and some say the 6ew7 gives the woo 6 a tube like sound.
 Which will give the woo 6 the most tube like sound/characteristics?_

 

can you tell me what you consider "tubey"? please describe what your definition is so
 that i can better understand what you're after.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can you tell me what you consider "tubey"? please describe what your definition is so
 that i can better understand what you're after._

 

I guess by solid state i mean detailed and dynamic but it can sound thin, flat and cold. 

 So by tubey I mean more warm, lush, and three dimensional, more space and separation. the treble may sparkle but it does not sound harsh or thin.

 Looking to soften the treble on the HD800 and give it more warmth and bass.


----------



## takezo

understood. of the rectifiers i would say the gz32 is the warmest. the 5r4gy brimar are
 lush and give great space and separation but not as sparkly as the 274b. the 274b excel
 at everything but not the warmest presentation but best at space/separation/impact and
 3-d aspect. the tubiest, by your definition, is the large/fat brown base gz34 mullard. it
 has the most lush, liquidy and warm mids of all rectifiers i've encountered. make sure it is
 F1 and not F2 nor F3 designation. F1 is from the mid 50's, F2 from the late 50's and 60's
 and F3 from the late 60's and 70's. bass is almost as good as metal base gz34 but the
 highs are tamed and not as extended as the metal base types.

 from there, you can tube roll the drive/power tubes for further manipulation. from the
 directly interchangeable types the 6ew7 and 6fd7 may be the tubiest with less aggressive
 dynamics and larger soundstage. if you're able, make some adapters that will work with
 the following to get the tubiest sound possible: 6922 is lush, warm but dynamic with
 high resolution. 6gu7 is warm, thick and less extended on top but still transparent.
 the 6sn7 is lush, focused and balanced with a non-aggressive sound signature, but
 will not work well with wa6se due to inadequate power from the second section.
 surprisingly it works fine with the wa6... most likely due to difference in voltage to the
 anode plates... my favorite is the 6dn7. it has very similar sonic signature to the 6sn7
 but the second section is as powerful as the 6fd7. in fact, it sounds similar to listening
 to a 6sn7 at drive and 6bl7gt at the power section on a singlepower mpx3 slam se.
 and it works well with both wa6 and wa6se. an adapter for the 6sn7 will work for the
 6dn7 as well.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_understood. of the rectifiers i would say the gz32 is the warmest. the 5r4gy brimar are
 lush and give great space and separation but not as sparkly as the 274b. the 274b excel
 at everything but not the warmest presentation but best at space/separation/impact and
 3-d aspect. the tubiest, by your definition, is the large/fat brown base gz34 mullard. it
 has the most lush, liquidy and warm mids of all rectifiers i've encountered. make sure it is
 F1 and not F2 nor F3 designation. F1 is from the mid 50's, F2 from the late 50's and 60's
 and F3 from the late 60's and 70's. bass is almost as good as metal base gz34 but the
 highs are tamed and not as extended as the metal base types.

 from there, you can tube roll the drive/power tubes for further manipulation. from the
 directly interchangeable types the 6ew7 and 6fd7 may be the tubiest with less aggressive
 dynamics and larger soundstage. if you're able, make some adapters that will work with
 the following to get the tubiest sound possible: 6922 is lush, warm but dynamic with
 high resolution. 6gu7 is warm, thick and less extended on top but still transparent.
 the 6sn7 is lush, focused and balanced with a non-aggressive sound signature, but
 will not work well with wa6se due to inadequate power from the second section.
 surprisingly it works fine with the wa6... most likely due to difference in voltage to the
 anode plates... my favorite is the 6dn7. it has very similar sonic signature to the 6sn7
 but the second section is as powerful as the 6fd7. in fact, it sounds similar to listening
 to a 6sn7 at drive and 6bl7gt at the power section on a singlepower mpx3 slam se.
 and it works well with both wa6 and wa6se. an adapter for the 6sn7 will work for the
 6dn7 as well._

 

thanks. that will go along way to trying various tubes in the future.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I would agree the "tubiest" were my GZ34 tubes (Amperex Bugle Boy and Metal Base).


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1-200 hrs.: rapid changes... almost hour to hour from great to congested.
 200- 500: still observed changes but latency was longer in duration.
 day to day and week to week.
 500-800: very long latency periods of great followed by congested sound. almost
 gave up during bad stretch in thinking something was wrong with the caps.
 lasted weeks it seemed. 
 800 to present: can't remember hearing any significant changes in sonics.
 settled at vastly transparent and responsive to changes in rectifier and
 drive tubes._

 

How bad a congestion are you talking about there, takezo? Mine just passed the 100hr mark, and aside from a bit of restraint in macro dynamics (which can easily be explained away as stock tube and sennheiser stock cable deficiencies) I don't hear any congestion in the Woo.

 Also, how easy is the WA6SE to open up? Maybe its just my suspicious nature, but I'd like to peer inside and make sure that all those blackgates are actually there


----------



## Runkby

what do people think about the woo22... i have both sennheiser hd 650's and denon ah-d7000's... do you like that amp, a, and b, are those headphones good to get with it?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How bad a congestion are you talking about there, takezo? Mine just passed the 100hr mark, and aside from a bit of restraint in macro dynamics (which can easily be explained away as stock tube and sennheiser stock cable deficiencies) I don't hear any congestion in the Woo.

 Also, how easy is the WA6SE to open up? Maybe its just my suspicious nature, but I'd like to peer inside and make sure that all those blackgates are actually there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

well, i believe the amp really opened up in terms of transparency and resolution
 at around 200 to 300 hrs. that's when you'll find yourself saying "holy sh--." 
 for the first time. followed by, "where'd that great open sound go?"

 lay the amp units on its side or up-side-down and use a philips screw-driver
 to unfasten all six screws. that's it. it's child's play. just don't go poking in
 there with anything metallic.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Runkby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what do people think about the woo22... i have both sennheiser hd 650's and denon ah-d7000's... do you like that amp, a, and b, are those headphones good to get with it?_

 

The Woo WA22 hasn't been released yet. I tried my balanced HD800 with it at CanJam and it was very good. I will have the prototype here next week, for the Colorado meet on the 25th, and can listen more then.

 If you meant to type Woo 2, then ignore what I just said since I haven't tried the WA2.


----------



## AVALover5498

I'm considering the Woo Audio 6 with a pair of 325i's. Do you guys think this would be a good mix? Or should I look at a different amp?

 -Chris-


----------



## nigeljames

Any one know the power output levels of the Woo6 + pdps
 I have seen a comparison, on another thread, of the stock w6 and the 6se and there is a massive difference. I am mainly interested in a W6+pdps vs Woo6se comparison.
 Also is the pdps implementation on the SE better than the W6 + pdps as regards SQ improvments.
 Thanks


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AVALover5498* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm considering the Woo Audio 6 with a pair of 325i's. Do you guys think this would be a good mix? Or should I look at a different amp?

 -Chris-_

 

Hey Chris, nice signature
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A man who knows he has nothing actually has something...

 I use my 325is 'phones with my WA6SE quite often and it is a GREAT combination. I started out with the GS1000i and wasn't expecting the world when I got my 325is. The truth is they took me completely by surprise. I was listening to "The Three Pickers" (yes, I have diverse musical tastes!) the other night and was comparing the GS1Ki to the 325is. I actually think the lead transient of the banjo was more accurately produced by the 325is. 

 I'm not a big fan of Grado bowl pads though. The bagel pads on the GS1Ki make it one of the most comfortabel 'phones I have. In contrast, the bowls on the 325is (and my soon-to-arrive HF-2) make me take them off after about 90 minutes. Because of that, any bowl-pad Grado will never be my favorite because I can't stay comfortable through a long listening session. Obviously, others on this board have a different experience.

 BTW - if you are seriously interested in the 325is send me a PM...mine are basically brand new and might be available...

 Good luck!


----------



## Frihed89

Maybe some of you with strong ties to Woo could find out of he's planning to come to RMAF2009 now that it is on the CANJAM circuit.


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nigeljames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any one know the power output levels of the Woo6 + pdps
 I have seen a comparison, on another thread, of the stock w6 and the 6se and there is a massive difference. I am mainly interested in a W6+pdps vs Woo6se comparison.
 Also is the pdps implementation on the SE better than the W6 + pdps as regards SQ improvments.
 Thanks_

 

380mW at 32 Ohms, 200mW at 100 Ohms, 180mW at 300 Ohms.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_380mW at 32 Ohms, 200mW at 100 Ohms, 180mW at 300 Ohms._

 






 Are those figures straight from Jack? If so that's incredibly low compared to his WA6SE. 

 This is what Jack advised me when I asked the same question about output power on the SE, under various loads:

  Quote:


 The output is 1200 mw at 32 ohms, 1100 mw at 100ohms, and 900 mw at 300 ohms.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_380mW at 32 Ohms, 200mW at 100 Ohms, 180mW at 300 Ohms._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Are those figures straight from Jack? If so that's incredibly low compared to his WA6SE. 

 This is what Jack advised me when I asked the same question about output power on the SE, under various loads:_

 

I think the output rating quoted above for WA6 is correct as I used to owned a WA6 before upgraded to WA6SE. The output of the 2 amps is very noticeable when you pair both with similar equipment setup.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the output rating above quoted for WA6 is correct as I used to owned a WA6 before upgraded to WA6SE. The output of the 2 amps is very noticeable when you pair both with similar equipment setup._

 

Glad I got the SE model then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* 
_lay the amp units on its side or up-side-down and use a philips screw-driver
 to unfasten all six screws. that's it. it's child's play. just don't go poking in
 there with anything metallic._

 

Thanks for the advice, it really is much easier than I'd expected. I had no idea that all the components were mounted to the top of the amp rather than the bottom, it makes opening the Woo up very straightforward.

 And any doubts I might have had about the parts or workmanship used in my amp vanished as soon as I looked inside. If anything it looked even better-built and cleaner than some of the pics I've seen floating around on Head-Fi. The solid array of Black Gates in the amp section and the two huge ones in the PSU were a sight to behold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You know you're obsessed with this hobby when you have dreams about your own equippment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Last night I dreamt that my patience caved in and I switched in the Sophia and Raytheons early rather than waiting for the full burn in duration. Which I think I'm going to go do now, screw waiting. I can't take it anymore


----------



## KingStyles

The sophia are wooing him.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad I got the SE model then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You know you're obsessed with this hobby when you have dreams about your own equippment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Last night I dreamt that my patience caved in and I switched in the Sophia and Raytheons early rather than waiting for the full burn in duration. Which I think I'm going to go do now, screw waiting. I can't take it anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You can start rolling in the Sophia Princess now and you will not take out anymore once it is fitted ...


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which I think I'm going to go do now, screw waiting. I can't take it anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha you're weak! I knew you'd cave


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Are those figures straight from Jack? If so that's incredibly low compared to his WA6SE. 

 This is what Jack advised me when I asked the same question about output power on the SE, under various loads:_

 

Yes, those figures are straight from Jack.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha you're weak! I knew you'd cave 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

STOP JUDGING ME


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_STOP JUDGING ME 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Take it easy... Everyone of us starts from somewhere...


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take it easy... Everyone of us starts from somewhere..._

 

I was kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Besides, I "started" with tube amps quite a while ago.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Besides, I "started" with tube amps quite a while ago._

 

Glad... Enjoy the great WA6SE ya.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_380mW at 32 Ohms, 200mW at 100 Ohms, 180mW at 300 Ohms._

 

I think you meant "mA" not "mW" there?


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe Australian humour failure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happens on all forums since the begining of time~

 So how has it changed sound sig wise since we all had a listen?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe Australian humour failure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happens on all forums since the begining of time~

 So how has it changed sound sig wise since we all had a listen?_

 

Transparency and clarity has improved during the burn in. It was at 50hrs for the meet, it's now at almost 120. The Sophia just got swapped in this morning, which was actually a step backwards SQ-wise as the mids suddenly became more distant and flatter, which I expect to improve as the Sophia settles. I've been told it needs 80hrs of its own, so I should be hearing close to the amp's full potential by next weekend.


----------



## nattonrice

That sounds good!
 I forgot that you said it had 50hrs on it. 
 I can't wait to hear it at unsw.
 I'll have to take some sophia glory shots like Ian's GES


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have to take some sophia glory shots like Ian's GES 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're welcome to drop by anytime if you'd like to hear it here, as well.

 By Tues I should have my headphone and USB cables here too.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're welcome to drop by anytime if you'd like to hear it here, as well.

 By Tues I should have my headphone and USB cables here too._

 

By then you will have to break in the cable.. ha ha for another 100 hours.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By then you will have to break in the cable.. ha ha for another 100 hours._

 

I don't believe in cable burn in, especially not 100hrs worth. And my Vortex has already had a few hours use from the builder, testing with his HD600's.


----------



## Covenant

Well, the Sophia provided an interesting revelation last night.

 Before the Woo arrived, I had been using my Pico DAC/Amp via a USB port at the back of my computer, and it had what appeared to be a black background. When the Woo got here, and the DAC/Amp was replaced with the DAC-Only out of the same USB port, suddenly a low level power hum became audible.

 After much troubleshooting, I found that the hum was coming from the USB port itself. Switching the cable to the front port eliminated the hum - I'm not sure if it was just a bad connection at the back, or EMI from the bagillions of cables going every which way back there, but regardless the front port sorted it. So it seemed the Woo was resolving enough to let me hear a background hum that was completely inaudible before.

 Now last night, switching in the Sophia. Firing her up, the first thing I notice is - sure enough - a background hum. I'm thinking that perhaps its because the tube hasnt burned in enough yet, or warmed up enough yet, or perhaps there is some oxidation on the pins. So I let it run in all day, and by the end of the day it was sounding frigging fantastic. But the hum was still there. Unplug the USB cable, and sure enough, that's where it was coming from.

 So it seems that the Woo with stock tubes was one big increase in resolution over the Pico amp, but that the Woo with Sophia is *another* big increase in resolution over that. Hopefully my overbuilt and well-shielded USB cables I've got coming from qusp will resolve the hum problem from the source, or I might have to shift music server duties to my laptop and see if that has a cleaner USB-out.


----------



## KingStyles

You can try a usb to spdif converter. They range in price and might get the hum out. I would also recommend a locus polestar usb cable. There well shielded and have better sound than other usb cables. They start at 250 for 3ft but well worth it. He also lets you return it if you feel it didnt make a difference.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can try a usb to spdif converter. They range in price and might get the hum out. I would also recommend a locus polestar usb cable. There well shielded and have better sound than other usb cables. They start at 250 for 3ft but well worth it. He also lets you return it if you feel it didnt make a difference._

 

USB to SPDIF isnt an option as the Pico DAC only has USB input. I've already commissioned some ridiculously overbuilt USB cables that'll be arriving this week


----------



## qusp

what would a USB to SDIF convertor do?? his pico has USB only input and Laptop/pc has USB only output.

 edit; man I need a coffee before posting. you got that question covered


----------



## Runkby

i have a question... how important is it to get the premium parts upgrade on these amps... the reason why i ask is b/c i am thinking of the wa22 and i was informed by jack that the premium parts upgrade is not going to be available for a while with this amp... do you guys feel the premium parts upgrade is a big deal?


----------



## KingStyles

Sorry, I didnt realize the pico only had usb in. My apologies. The only thing I would suggest is if you can get to a meet or a friend etc. and test a different dac. I would think a desktop dac would do a better job than a portable unit. Especially since you have that nice amp but you are using a portable all in one dac. Are you thinking about a upgrading it in the future?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the Sophia provided an interesting revelation last night.

 Before the Woo arrived, I had been using my Pico DAC/Amp via a USB port at the back of my computer, and it had what appeared to be a black background. When the Woo got here, and the DAC/Amp was replaced with the DAC-Only out of the same USB port, suddenly a low level power hum became audible.

 After much troubleshooting, I found that the hum was coming from the USB port itself. Switching the cable to the front port eliminated the hum - I'm not sure if it was just a bad connection at the back, or EMI from the bagillions of cables going every which way back there, but regardless the front port sorted it. So it seemed the Woo was resolving enough to let me hear a background hum that was completely inaudible before.

 Now last night, switching in the Sophia. Firing her up, the first thing I notice is - sure enough - a background hum. I'm thinking that perhaps its because the tube hasnt burned in enough yet, or warmed up enough yet, or perhaps there is some oxidation on the pins. So I let it run in all day, and by the end of the day it was sounding frigging fantastic. But the hum was still there. Unplug the USB cable, and sure enough, that's where it was coming from.

 So it seems that the Woo with stock tubes was one big increase in resolution over the Pico amp, but that the Woo with Sophia is *another* big increase in resolution over that. Hopefully my overbuilt and well-shielded USB cables I've got coming from qusp will resolve the hum problem from the source, or I might have to shift music server duties to my laptop and see if that has a cleaner USB-out._

 

stevenkelby can build you a USB cable that takes only the data from the PC, and let's you use a separate wall wart to power the USB DAC, isolating the noisy PC power supply so it doesn't enter the DAC. I don't what he'd charge, but he and I discussed doing that over a year ago.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, I didnt realize the pico only had usb in. My apologies. The only thing I would suggest is if you can get to a meet or a friend etc. and test a different dac. I would think a desktop dac would do a better job than a portable unit. Especially since you have that nice amp but you are using a portable all in one dac. Are you thinking about a upgrading it in the future?_

 

That portable USB DAC can keep up with $700-1000 stand alone DACs like Apogee, Stello and PS Audio.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stevenkelby can build you a USB cable that takes only the data from the PC, and let's you use a separate wall wart to power the USB DAC, isolating the noisy PC power supply so it doesn't enter the DAC. I don't what he'd charge, but he and I discussed doing that over a year ago._

 

That's a very interesting idea, if the USB cables I've got coming dont fix it, and my laptop USB out proves no cleaner than my PC's I might go that route. I can live with it for the time being though, its a fairly quiet hum.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headphoneaddict* 
_That portable USB DAC can keep up with $700-1000 stand alone DACs like Apogee, Stello and PS Audio._

 

What he said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've no plans to upgrade the Pico in the near future, as if I did it would have to be a major step - such as a Buffalo or RWA Isabellina - which I cannot afford after splurging on this amp and cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Listening to the Sophia some more. Jesus, it makes all the difference, doesn't it? What was very good before just became jaw-dropping.


----------



## Covenant

Ack I think I killed the thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there a consensus on the best drive tubes for bass? My Woo is still burning in, so I'm reserving final judgement, but right now it sounds excellent in everything except that I would like more bass slam/quantity. Currently i'm using El Menco drive tubes.

 Any recommendations?


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

I got my Woo3 when they first came out (late 2004 I think) and it's been running like a top ever since. Still love it and I have no desire to upgrade.... well maybe a small part of me wants to try the Woo 6 SE with some Black Gates


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a consensus on the best drive tubes for bass? My Woo is still burning in, so I'm reserving final judgement, but right now it sounds excellent in everything except that I would like more bass slam/quantity. Currently i'm using El Menco drive tubes.

 Any recommendations?_

 

Yeah, I guess I have one, even if I can't help on the tube question. I've got the same amp, down to the caps, and I love it, even before the recent installation of that magical Sophia. I get decent and extraordinarily accurate bass on my HD800s, and wonderful, incredible tight happy bass on my DX1000s. In your position, I'd be thinking headphones, not tubes, for your bass needs. HD650? Denon? Or even the DX1000, if you're willing to venture a roll of the dice on an idiosyncratic headphone that many sell, some (like me) love, and that even many of those who sell, think of fondly.

 Here's an interesting reference point with respect to the DX1000s (and the HD800s, for that matter): on the HD800s, the change from stock rectifier to Sophia was amazing. Everything seemed more musical, together, and sweet. It was a remarkably pronounced and positive change. On the DX1000, it was a relatively minor change. The virtues of the Sophia were already, in essence, present on the DX1000. But do a lot of reading here before you consider a pair, so you can understand what you're getting into.

 For me, burn-in on the Woo has been a slow and subtle thing. More a matter of locking in and getting a bit more "right" than any pronounced sonic difference that I could characterize in more reductionistic terms than that. And unlike headphone breakin, I'd be willing to grant that this breakin phenomenon might be all in my head.


----------



## jrosenth

Okay, I'll jump into this thread

 I have a WA1 (yes, the white plastic little guy that was such an early attempt) and I absolutely love it.

 Here's a trip down memory lane:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/woo...-review-86988/

WooAudio - WooAudio1


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I guess I have one, even if I can't help on the tube question. I've got the same amp, down to the caps, and I love it, even before the recent installation of that magical Sophia. I get decent and extraordinarily accurate bass on my HD800s, and wonderful, incredible tight happy bass on my DX1000s. In your position, I'd be thinking headphones, not tubes, for your bass needs. HD650? Denon? Or even the DX1000, if you're willing to venture a roll of the dice on an idiosyncratic headphone that many sell, some (like me) love, and that even many of those who sell, think of fondly._

 

Oh I know, HD600 isn't the bassiest headphone out there. But in all other respects ~except~ bass slam, its my favourite headphone. I still want to see just how much performance I can eke out of them in the bass area before I invest in another can.

 If I do find them ultimately lacking in that dept though I'll likely be looking at either a HD650 or a D2000 as a complimentary 'phone.

  Quote:


 Here's an interesting reference point with respect to the DX1000s (and the HD800s, for that matter): on the HD800s, the change from stock rectifier to Sophia was amazing. Everything seemed more musical, together, and sweet. It was a remarkably pronounced and positive change. On the DX1000, it was a relatively minor change. The virtues of the Sophia were already, in essence, present on the DX1000. 
 

I just interpret that as the HD800 being a clearer window, allowing you to pick up the reduced noise floor and increased microdetail and microdynamics of the Sophia better. 

  Quote:


 For me, burn-in on the Woo has been a slow and subtle thing. More a matter of locking in and getting a bit more "right" than any pronounced sonic difference that I could characterize in more reductionistic terms than that. And unlike headphone breakin, I'd be willing to grant that this breakin phenomenon might be all in my head. 
 

I've been hearing the effects of the burn in - more so for the Sophia than for the amp itself. For the tube at least, the differences during burn in havent been very subtle - she goes from being amazing to being merely good, and back again, several times it seems.


----------



## rangen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just interpret that as the HD800 being a clearer window, allowing you to pick up the reduced noise floor and increased microdetail and microdynamics of the Sophia better. _

 

Yes, agreed, except for one nuance: the HD800 makes you care more about such things, as well as having a very clear window on them. With the DX1000, one is more focused on the groove, and the personality of the voices and players, and the efffects on those aspects is less pronounced.

 I did not notice a "reduced noise floor" BTW. For my ears, the Woo has presented a dead quiet noise floor all along.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been hearing the effects of the burn in - more so for the Sophia than for the amp itself. For the tube at least, the differences during burn in havent been very subtle - she goes from being amazing to being merely good, and back again, several times it seems._

 

Interesting. I've had that experience too, since I installed it, but I attributed it to my mood. Perhaps you're on to something. I wasn't bouncing around like that with the stock rectifier.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ack I think I killed the thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there a consensus on the best drive tubes for bass? My Woo is still burning in, so I'm reserving final judgement, but right now it sounds excellent in everything except that I would like more bass slam/quantity. Currently i'm using El Menco drive tubes.

 Any recommendations?_

 

from my experience bass will improve with burn-in of the black gate caps...
 as rangen proposed above, you can get bass improvement by changing
 headphones as well... but if you're looking for cost-effective and quick 
 remedy, try the 6FD7 or 6CY7 triodes. they do seem to go deeper and offer 
 more impact than the 6de7 in the bass dept.. also, don't forget to give the 
 amp at least 2hrs. of warm up before critical listening. focus and impact
 improves from top to bottom.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rangen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not notice a "reduced noise floor" BTW. For my ears, the Woo has presented a dead quiet noise floor all along._

 

So I thought as well with the stock rectifier. But when I swapped in the Sophia, a low level hum from my source suddenly became audible that wasn't previously. I posted about that experience in this thread a page ago or so. Little nuances in the music that were barely noticable before have also leapt out, and I attribute that to a combination of increased seperation and "blacker" background.

  Quote:


 Interesting. I've had that experience too, since I installed it, but I attributed it to my mood. Perhaps you're on to something. I wasn't bouncing around like that with the stock rectifier. 
 

Agreed, the stock rectifier sounded pretty much the same at 10hrs as it did at 100hrs, to my memory. Wheras the Sophia seems to be more temperamental as she burns in. I do remember Larry remarking that he's never heard a tube change as much during burn in as the Sophia, and that she took a good 80hrs to settle, which I haven't reached yet. I swapped in the Sophia at 110hrs, and the amp is now on about 150hrs.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* 
_from my experience bass will improve with burn-in of the black gate caps..._

 

Groovy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wasn't making any final judgements or anything yet anyway, but its good to know there is still improvement ahead in that department.

  Quote:


 but if you're looking for cost-effective and quick
 remedy, try the 6FD7 or 6CY7 triodes. 
 

Are they drop in replacements for the stock drive tubes? And are there particular brands/makes I should look out for?


----------



## takezo

yes, the 6FD7 and 6CY7 are direct drop-in replacements. the sylvanias sound is leaner and
 offer impact while the rca brands sound thicker/slower. it's subtle difference though and not
 day and night difference between the brands. GE are good as well but they seem to have
 less prominent characteristics than others.


----------



## indydieselnut

That thing is GREAT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As a recent headphone convert I didn't know how "far back" Woo went. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jrosenth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, I'll jump into this thread

 I have a WA1 (yes, the white plastic little guy that was such an early attempt) and I absolutely love it.

 Here's a trip down memory lane:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/woo...-review-86988/

WooAudio - WooAudio1_


----------



## Speederlander

I bit the bullet. Maxed WA6 with Sophia due in 3 weeks. It will be matched with HD800 received last week. Channel Islands DAC will come later.

 What reasonable power cords do people use for their WA6? I will be plugging into an APC UPS and full power conditioner.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Speederlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bit the bullet. Maxed WA6 with Sophia due in 3 weeks. It will be matched with HD800 received last week. Channel Islands DAC will come later.

 What reasonable power cords do people use for their WA6? I will be plugging into an APC UPS and full power conditioner._

 

You will love it, so far I'm loving mine. As for power cable, I only use the very heavy duty one that comes with Cisco switch. Make sure your UPS is a full sine wave output.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

*Sneak Peek at WA22 review:*

 Guys - the WA22 I have here for the CO meet next week is decidedly better with HD800/600 than the maxed WA6 with pseudo dual power supply and Sophia - driving the HD800/600 single ended with the WA22 still has a more spacious and separated soundstage than the WA6, with a little more improvement balanced on top of the already nice sound.

 For less money the WA22 seems to be on about the level of the $2500 EC Zana Deux Transformer with HD800/600, HF-2 and RS-1, and ATH-A900 - but not as good with K1000 and without the 8-watt speaker outputs of the ZDT.


----------



## zhenya

Long(er)-term owner of a Woo I custom here.

Woo Audio 1 - Custom Build WooAudio1







 I haven't been active on Head-fi in some time, so it's interesting to see how far Woo Audio has come in the last few years. 

 Enjoy!


----------



## mikeymad

Old school goodness..... thanks for sharing.

 Cheers,


----------



## sling5s

The 6EW7 seems to be too wide/fat for the woo 6. 
 Do I need to take the top plate off? I was thinking it would fit without any mods. Any suggestions would help. I hope I don't have to return them.


----------



## deutscherhififan

Have you guys seen the price for the new WA WES? $4500 pre-order special, $5k retail soon. Wow, you got love your electrostats to spend that kind of cash.....The cans targeted by this amp set you back another $2.4k.

 It will be available in October.


----------



## IceClass

Compared to some that's a bargain.
 In fact there's some folks out there that easily spent more than that on amps from SinglePower.
 Looks like 5K on a woo is a solid investment.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 6EW7 seems to be too wide/fat for the woo 6. 
 Do I need to take the top plate off? I was thinking it would fit without any mods. Any suggestions would help. I hope I don't have to return them._

 

you must have the older wa6. wooaudio use to make the wa6 cover with
 smaller socket holes, but changed about a year ago with larger holes in the
 cover to accomodate the fat tubes... you need to make an adapter or buy
 a pair thru jack of wooaudio to make use of the fat tubes. or try to find small
 bottle versions of the 6ew7. good luck.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zhenya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Long(er)-term owner of a Woo I custom here.

Woo Audio 1 - Custom Build WooAudio1






 I haven't been active on Head-fi in some time, so it's interesting to see how far Woo Audio has come in the last few years. 

 Enjoy!_

 


 zhenya, thanks for sharing the rare old school woo amp, it's shiny.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you must have the older wa6. wooaudio use to make the wa6 cover with
 smaller socket holes, but changed about a year ago with larger holes in the
 cover to accomodate the fat tubes... you need to make an adapter or buy
 a pair thru jack of wooaudio to make use of the fat tubes. or try to find small
 bottle versions of the 6ew7. good luck._

 

thanks


----------



## sling5s

Since I have the older woo 6, the 6WE7 won't fit.
 Jack recommended 6FD7 and 6DR7 as alternatives that would fit.

 How are the 6FD7 or 6DR7 compared to the stock 6DE7 in sound? Are they superior tubes and what are the sound ciharacterteristics?


----------



## takezo

make sure you get the normal sized 6FD7, as a big bottle version of it exist which is the
 same size as the big bottle 6ew7 you purchased.

 the 6FD7, 6DR7 and 6CY7 can all be substituted directly for the 6DE7. these 3 have
 higher gain so you'll get more volume at the same volume dial position of the 6de7. and
 since you have the wa6, and not the wa6SE, you won't lose much of volume dial range.
 they're all around $4 per tube so experimenting is recommended. try eday or vacuum
 seller like vacuumtubes.net (they're reliable and competent seller)


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_make sure you get the normal sized 6FD7, as a big bottle version of it exist which is the
 same size as the big bottle 6ew7 you purchased.

 the 6FD7, 6DR7 and 6CY7 can all be substituted directly for the 6DE7. these 3 have
 higher gain so you'll get more volume at the same volume dial position of the 6de7. and
 since you have the wa6, and not the wa6SE, you won't lose much of volume dial range.
 they're all around $4 per tube so experimenting is recommended. try eday or vacuum
 seller like vacuumtubes.net (they're reliable and competent seller)_

 

Of the three besides the higher gain. Can you recommend one that is superior in sound like detail, dynamics, soundstage, air and bass.
 Which one of the three has the most bass?

 thanks


----------



## takezo

of the three i like the 6FD7 big bottle the best. but the standard bottle is good as well.
 sylvania or rebranded sylvanias like dumont or westinghouse is best for detail, soundstage,
 dynamics, air and bass. rca is better at lushness, warmth, thickness and euphonic
 characteristics.


----------



## sling5s

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_of the three i like the 6FD7 big bottle the best. but the standard bottle is good as well.
 sylvania or rebranded sylvanias like dumont or westinghouse is best for detail, soundstage,
 dynamics, air and bass. rca is better at lushness, warmth, thickness and euphonic
 characteristics._

 

thank you again. I'll try the 6fd7.


----------



## takezo

i don't see any standard sized 6FD7 on eday at the moment. the fat bottles seem to
 be more common. you'd probably be better off asking tube sellers thru their websites.
 just let them know you only want the standard bottle and not the big bottle.


----------



## Covenant

Edit, reposted in its own thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/max...so-far-435274/


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Sneak Peek at WA22 review:*

 Guys - the WA22 I have here for the CO meet next week is decidedly better with HD800/600 than the maxed WA6 with pseudo dual power supply and Sophia - driving the HD800/600 single ended with the WA22 still has a more spacious and separated soundstage than the WA6, with a little more improvement balanced on top of the already nice sound.

 For less money the WA22 seems to be on about the level of the $2500 EC Zana Deux Transformer with HD800/600, HF-2 and RS-1, and ATH-A900 - but not as good with K1000 and without the 8-watt speaker outputs of the ZDT._

 

Nobody here cares about the new WA22 balanced amp I posted about? 

 The prototype is taking away the fun I used to have with my WA6 - I hate to send it back in a week, except that I'll still have the ZDT which is also exceptional.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nobody here cares about the new WA22 balanced amp I posted about? 

 The prototype is taking away the fun I used to have with my WA6 - I hate to send it back in a week, except that I'll still have the ZDT which is also exceptional._

 

I'm of the mind that the improvements you heard from the WA22 can likely be explained by better drive, Larry. I was shocked to find out how low-powered the WA6 is compared to the SE model, and Senns are damn hungry beasts when it comes to power.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm of the mind that the improvements you heard from the WA22 can likely be explained by better drive, Larry. I was shocked to find out how low-powered the WA6 is compared to the SE model, and Senns are damn hungry beasts when it comes to power._

 

I had experience the power deficiency when I had the WA6 earlier even it was maxed out... Glad to own a WA6SE now...


----------



## atbglenn

I have a standard 6 and I have to say there is more than enough power for driving HD650's to ear splitting levels without distortion.


----------



## rurika

Hi, HeadphoneAddict 

 Which driver tubes did you use with WA22 ?

 I'm preorder WA22 but I don't upgrade 6sn7 tube yet.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nobody here cares about the new WA22 balanced amp I posted about? 

 The prototype is taking away the fun I used to have with my WA6 - I hate to send it back in a week, except that I'll still have the ZDT which is also exceptional._

 

I don't think nobody cares. I do think that if the WA22 wasn't doing a better job that the WA6 then it would be hard to justify the additional cost of the WA22. I guess nobody is surprised it is better.

 Now pitting it against the WA6SE maxxed with Sophia is another matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Simon


----------



## KingStyles

The wa22 looks nice, but I am waiting to see if he comes out with upgraded parts before I male my decision between it and a fully loaded wa5. My eye is always wandering so it might get distracted before then. The wes looks so good it might persuade me to go stats.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rurika* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, HeadphoneAddict 

 Which driver tubes did you use with WA22 ?

 I'm preorder WA22 but I don't upgrade 6sn7 tube yet._

 

This is the prototype which is using RCA 12AU7 (not 12AX7). It also has the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier, and a pair of Sylvania 7236 power tubes. We got a loan for the Colorado meet on the 25th.

 As for WA6 vs WA22 for the rest of you - the biggest difference is in the size of the soundstage and channel separation. Sound signature is actually similar, but the WA22 makes the WA6 sound like it has a more forward and narrower soundstage. By itself the WA6 was my best dynamic amp for soundstage, until I compared it to these two amps with balanced drive. Yes the WA22 is more powerful and can get more volume out of difficult cans like the K1000, but the WA6 is no power-slouch with any of my 32 ohm - 300 ohm cans, and is even pretty decent with my 600 ohm K240M.

 The ZDT sounds just as spacious as the WA22. My plan was to get the ZDT to drive my K1000 and Stax transformer in my bedroom rig (while also being able to drive all my other dynamic cans), and keep the Woo WA6 and GES together in the living room rig. But now the problem is just "knowing" I've heard something better and don't have it bugs me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've compared the WA6 to a Zana Deux before and they were much closer to each other, but now the new ZDT and WA22 take it another step further. I wanted my better rig in my bedroom, but I think the ZDT might be putting off too much heat for the bedroom (I don't like hot rooms). Now I'm thinking I'd like a WA22 to go with my GES in the bedroom, and I'd really like to sell the GES for a WES. Funny thing is I already have 8 other amps and two Stax pro-bias transformers in my bedroom, but none are as good as the WA6 (2 are close), not to mention the WA22 or ZDT.


----------



## Johnnie

Folks, hopefully, these images come through. My first time posting pictures so you never know what's going to happen. 

 Enjoy!

 Johnnie


----------



## MooBin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnnie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Folks, hopefully, these images come through. My first time posting pictures so you never know what's going to happen. 

 Enjoy!

 Johnnie_

 

How about the sound of it ? Could be tempted to try a STAX with proper amplification and possibly a Pawel Headphone processor (and a source exactly in the range that you have) if I survive the swine flu during my upcoming holidays and would be blessed with some additional income (both conditions need to be met) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. OK - maybe too much for the moment - but I am interested anyway.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnnie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Folks, hopefully, these images come through. My first time posting pictures so you never know what's going to happen. 

 Enjoy!

 Johnnie_

 

Lovely looking GES, congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Woo GES to HE60 was one of the finest setups I've heard.

 On a sidenote, it seems my Sophia Princess has passed away. I'm shipping her mortal remains back to her hometown at Sophia Electric, where Jack will say a few kind words and get them to send me back the next candidate for the throne.


----------



## KingStyles

Quote:


 On a sidenote, it seems my Sophia Princess has passed away. I'm shipping her mortal remains back to her hometown at Sophia Electric, where Jack will say a few kind words and get them to send me back the next candidate for the throne 
 

Wow, what is this the dark ages, that sure was a short reign on the throne.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, what is this the dark ages, that sure was a short reign on the throne._

 

All I can say about that is that the stock rectifier sure is glowing happily. I suspect duplicity...


----------



## Johnnie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MooBin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about the sound of it ? Could be tempted to try a STAX with proper amplification and possibly a Pawel Headphone processor (and a source exactly in the range that you have) if I survive the swine flu during my upcoming holidays and would be blessed with some additional income (both conditions need to be met) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. OK - maybe too much for the moment - but I am interested anyway._

 

MooBin,

 The sound is amazing. I previously used the SRM-006t, which is no slouch, to drive my SR-404s. The GES takes it to another level. While it has a similar sound signature (at least to my ears), it's more resolving of details, has a much bigger soundstage and seems to possess effortless power. Though some say Stax is not suitable to rock and certain other types of music, with an amp like the GES, you really can enjoy any type of music. 

 For me, it was also a no brainer given the cost of Stax's top-of-the line amp (SRM-007t) is on par with a maxxed GES. Unlike the Stax, however, the GES autobiases the tubes. The only downside is that the GES does not accept balanced inputs. 

 It did a great job of driving HeadphoneAddict's O2s at the Denver meet last Saturday. This can is notoriously difficult to drive, but based on what I heard then, it has we wondering if I really need to upgrade my amp when I acquire a pair of the O2s. 

 Hope this helps.

 Johnnie


----------



## Johnnie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lovely looking GES, congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Woo GES to HE60 was one of the finest setups I've heard.

 On a sidenote, it seems my Sophia Princess has passed away. I'm shipping her mortal remains back to her hometown at Sophia Electric, where Jack will say a few kind words and get them to send me back the next candidate for the throne._

 

Thanks Covenant. Sorry to hear of your loss.

 Johnnie


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnnie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MooBin,

 The sound is amazing. I previously used the SRM-006t, which is no slouch, to drive my SR-404s. The GES takes it to another level. While it has a similar sound signature (at least to my ears), it's more resolving of details, has a much bigger soundstage and seems to possess effortless power. Though some say Stax is not suitable to rock and certain other types of music, with an amp like the GES, you really can enjoy any type of music. 

 For me, it was also a no brainer given the cost of Stax's top-of-the line amp (SRM-007t) is on par with a maxxed GES. Unlike the Stax, however, the GES autobiases the tubes. The only downside is that the GES does not accept balanced inputs. 

 It did a great job of driving HeadphoneAddict's O2s at the Denver meet last Saturday. This can is notoriously difficult to drive, but based on what I heard then, it has we wondering if I really need to upgrade my amp when I acquire a pair of the O2s. 

 Hope this helps.

 Johnnie_

 

Yeah, the maxed GES does sound good with the O2 Mk1 with the right tubes. These early 60's GE "Wurlitzer" 12AX7 are doing a very nice job with the O2 Mk1 frequency response, and better than the NOS 12BZ7 that come with the maxed GES. Those tubes are also good with most other stats like Jade, but a little bright with my HE60.

 The RSA A-10 only achieved about 2dB, maybe 3dB, more max volume with the O2 Mk1 than the GES did - and both amps sounded very good with the O2. I did like that last extra bit of power for the O2, but would not use it often I suppose. My HE60 and Jade are a little more efficient than the O2 Mk1, and I can't seem to part with any of them - I recently declined to sell the HE60 to another buyer who made me an offer out of the blue, and declined to sell my O2 Mk1 to Ray Samuels as well. I feel bad, but what can you do...


----------



## Covenant

Just got my new Sylvania big bottle 6FD7's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How long do drive tubes - or 6FD7's specifically - take to burn in?

 Edit: Okay What. BOTH pairs of 6FD7's I just got seem to cause nasty cracking noises through my headphones. Like very sudden, very loud sounds through either - or both - channels. I got a pair of Sylvanias and a pair of RCAs, and they both seem to do it.


----------



## dannie01

That's wired, I've a pair GE 6FD7 fat bottle now playing, they just sound great. ALos, I have one extra pair GE and Sylvania for stock, tested with about 20 hrs when received, both sound great without any problem. Just wondering you've got a pair of failure 6FD7.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

My 6FD7 is doing great too sounding except I find it too much gain for now.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my new Sylvania big bottle 6FD7's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How long do drive tubes - or 6FD7's specifically - take to burn in?

 Edit: Okay What. BOTH pairs of 6FD7's I just got seem to cause nasty cracking noises through my headphones. Like very sudden, very loud sounds through either - or both - channels. I got a pair of Sylvanias and a pair of RCAs, and they both seem to do it._

 

Are the pins clean? I had crackling with one set of 6fd7 and cleaning up the pins got rid of it.

 Simon


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the pins clean? I had crackling with one set of 6fd7 and cleaning up the pins got rid of it.

 Simon_

 

X2, happened to my pair too.


----------



## Covenant

I used an alcohol wipe on both, it didn't seem to fix the problem. What do you use to clean pins with?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used an alcohol wipe on both, it didn't seem to fix the problem. What do you use to clean pins with?_

 

Rub it with a pencil erasor or use DeoxIT.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rub it with a pencil erasor or use DeoxIT._

 

Luckily I found a local store that sells DeoxIT, so I picked up some. Will try it out on the 6FD7's tonight


----------



## Covenant

Well, the DeoxIT didn't solve the problem. I cleaned the pins of both pairs of 6FD7's with it, by applying a coat, rubbing the coat off with a cloth, repeating, and then applying a last coat and leaving it on, as the DeoxIT instructions read. But both pairs of 6FD7's still exhibit loud cracking noises intermittently through the headphones.

 In addition to the loud cracking sounds, I noticed that the 6FD7's make soft 'shhh' sort of sounds through the headphones also, sort of like the current-rush sound that the stock tubes make when they first reach operating heat. For instance, with the stock 6EW7's plugged in, when I switch the amp on, after about 10 seconds I get a "shhhh" sort of sound as the headphones recieve power from the amp, which then dissapears and goes quiet. With the 6FD7's, this sound continues intermittently long after the tubes reach operating temperature. During one test I had the Sylvanias on for close to an hour before they started making 'crack' noises, and during this time they were making the "shhh" current-rush type sound repeatedly every couple of minutes or so.

 The seller wants me to ship the tubes back for further testing to see if it can be identified as a tube issue. But I find it odd that the problem is happening with not one, but BOTH pairs of 6FD7's, especially since they're matched pairs and were apparently tested for shorts/faults prior to shipping.

 Anyone know what might be the cause here?


----------



## jc9394

That is strange, it may be both pair are bad. 6FD7 are higher gain than 6EW7, did you try using another source to see if the cracking sound from the source?


----------



## takezo

it could be the socket pin retainers (pin gripers) aren't making good full contact with the
 pins from the tubes. you can test this by pushing in the 9 pins of the tubes in towards
 the center slightly to create more tension when they are inserted into the socket. once
 the tubes are in make sure they're not loose or moving around. you may encounter more
 noise when you touch the tubes while the amp is on.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is strange, it may be both pair are bad. 6FD7 are higher gain than 6EW7, did you try using another source to see if the cracking sound from the source?_

 

Yup, I switched in an RCA to mini cable and connected the Woo to my mp3 player to test and make sure the source wasnt the culprit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* 
_it could be the socket pin retainers (pin gripers) aren't making good full contact with the
 pins from the tubes. you can test this by pushing in the 9 pins of the tubes in towards
 the center slightly to create more tension when they are inserted into the socket. once
 the tubes are in make sure they're not loose or moving around. you may encounter more
 noise when you touch the tubes while the amp is on._

 

To be honest I highly doubt it. Why would the stock tubes work flawlessly if the retainers were loose? The 6FD7's felt secure in the sockets and couldn't wiggle.

 Also, I didn't touch the tubes while on. I dont think either the soft noise nor the loud cracks were due to simple microphonics.


----------



## El_Doug

I should be able to formally become part of this group by early October... when my maxxed WES arrives


----------



## dannie01

We'll say pre-welcome usually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, This is great combo, please share your impression and pics.


----------



## Ricey20

Received my black WA22 today. Been burning it in, still using stock tubes to get a feel for stock sound before I get better tubes


----------



## Gvvt

Covenant, I've come across tubes, JJ 12AX7s among others, that had skinnier pins than normal, and nudging them inward did help; but you probably would have noticed that when you put these new ones in.

 I've also found that some drivers in my WA2 are noisy when I first try them, but seem to clear up later. NO idea what that's about, but you may want to let them simmer for a while before tasting again.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

 ...To be honest I highly doubt it. Why would the stock tubes work flawlessly if the retainers were loose? The 6FD7's felt secure in the sockets and couldn't wiggle.

 Also, I didn't touch the tubes while on. I dont think either the soft noise nor the loud cracks were due to simple microphonics._

 

it's possible that all of the tubes are bad but it's also possible that some, but
 not all, of the pins are not making good full contact. you can test, to see if
 this is the case, by gently nudging/moving the tube while you have it on.
 i'd use a cheap backup headphone for this as the crackling/popping noise
 may damage the drivers of the hp. if you hear the same crackling noise when
 tube is moved then it's a contact issue. if not, then most probably your tube
 is bad.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my black WA22 today. Been burning it in, still using stock tubes to get a feel for stock sound before I get better tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

congrats on the new toy. please share your impressions on the unit when you
 have time. thanks in advance.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my black WA22 today. Been burning it in, still using stock tubes to get a feel for stock sound before I get better tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congrats! Post pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* 
_you can test, to see if
 this is the case, by gently nudging/moving the tube while you have it on.
 i'd use a cheap backup headphone for this as the crackling/popping noise
 may damage the drivers of the hp. if you hear the same crackling noise when
 tube is moved then it's a contact issue. if not, then most probably your tube
 is bad._

 

Sounds like a good idea. I'll give this a shot.

 Edit: No, nothing audible when gently wiggling the tubes while the amp is on. Music continues playing uninterrupted, and I hear no cracks.
 Edit2: And again, after about 20 minutes playing, CRACK! in one channel. Maybe against all odds I really did just get 2 bad sets of tubes.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit2: And again, after about 20 minutes playing, CRACK! in one channel. Maybe against all odds I really did just get 2 bad sets of tubes._

 

What you're describing happened to me with SIX different NOS JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes. I got so frustrated I sold them...the new owner had no problems with any of them. It really made me wonder...


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What you're describing happened to me with SIX different NOS JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes. I got so frustrated I sold them...the new owner had no problems with any of them. It really made me wonder..._

 

Yeah, I'm scratching my head too. I've managed to put about 3hrs of use on them despite the cracking, just in case it was initial 'noise' that would dissapear over time. But I have to worry if it could be causing damage to the amp, not to mention the headphone drivers, so I'm unwilling to let them burn further.

 I have to wonder, could it be at all related to the Teflon sockets in our amps? I couldn't visually see any thickness differences between the 6FD7 pins and the 6EW7 pins, but perhaps the Teflon sockets are in some way unsuitable for this tube type? I don't know, I'm grasping at straws here.

 Edit: No discernible thickness difference, but there is a length difference - the 6FD7 pins are longer than those on the stock tubes.


----------



## takezo

yeah, sounds like it's time to move onto other tubes... it's a good thing they're
 only $4 to $6 per tube...


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What you're describing happened to me with SIX different NOS JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes. I got so frustrated I sold them...the new owner had no problems with any of them. It really made me wonder..._

 

these tubes can be very high maintenance... in regards to performing best
 under very specific voltage and temperature...


----------



## rurika

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my black WA22 today. Been burning it in, still using stock tubes to get a feel for stock sound before I get better tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congrats !!


 Still waiting my silver W22.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

It's been awhile since I have been on this site....I have the very 1st WA5 production unit....running the stock tubes that came with it, and the AKG K1000 of course....I have Stax stuff, but really, the WA5 combo gets the most use.....still going strong and sounding incredible!


----------



## Csericks

I had a bit of trouble finding a reasonable deal on tubes for my LDII so I did what any self-respecting head-fi member would do - ordered a WA6 with PDPS. As I write this note I'm enjoying my first 5 minutes of listening. Pretty damn good right out of the box; I can't wait to hear how the first hundred or so hours unfold.


----------



## iTui

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my black WA22 today. Been burning it in, still using stock tubes to get a feel for stock sound before I get better tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, congratulation!!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rurika* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats !!


 Still waiting my silver W22.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My silver WA22 is expected to ship far away to Thailand by next week.
 So exciting to amp my HD800 with it. What would be a good pair of XLR interconnect cables for C.E.C TL51XR and WA22?


----------



## fallow81

Acrolink 6N-2400II XLR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great transparency, 3d-Imaging, natural sound.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Csericks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a bit of trouble finding a reasonable deal on tubes for my LDII so I did what any self-respecting head-fi member would do - ordered a WA6 with PDPS. As I write this note I'm enjoying my first 5 minutes of listening. Pretty damn good right out of the box; I can't wait to hear how the first hundred or so hours unfold._

 

Congrats, you'll find it sing after the first 200rs of burn-in, enjoy and welcome to the unite.


----------



## rated1975

hi all, im about to take possession of a modded WA6 from Jack, and was wondering if anyone, in particular from this thread, has a dac recommendation for me. Im considering the pico, along with other dacs in the price range of the pico such as a nos valab, dacmagic etc. It will be paired with 701's.


----------



## Speederlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, im about to take possession of a modded WA6 from Jack, and was wondering if anyone, in particular from this thread, has a dac recommendation for me. Im considering the pico, along with other dacs in the price range of the pico such as a nos valab, dacmagic etc. It will be paired with 701's._

 

Channel Islands VDA2:
Channel Islands Audio


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, im about to take possession of a modded WA6 from Jack, and was wondering if anyone, in particular from this thread, has a dac recommendation for me. Im considering the pico, along with other dacs in the price range of the pico such as a nos valab, dacmagic etc. It will be paired with 701's._

 

I'm using a DacMagic with my WA2. It's a very versitle piece of gear.
DacMagic Digital to Analogue Converter


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im considering the pico, along with other dacs in the price range of the pico such as a nos valab, dacmagic etc. It will be paired with 701's._

 

DacMagic and the Pico are both good, I've compared them on my WA6SE. The DacMagic is faster, more resolving and more detailed, while the Pico is smoother and cleaner. On well-recorded material I preferred the DacMagic, while on poorer stuff the Pico was more listenable.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DacMagic and the Pico are both good, I've compared them on my WA6SE. The DacMagic is faster, more resolving and more detailed, while the Pico is smoother and cleaner. On well-recorded material I preferred the DacMagic, while on poorer stuff the Pico was more listenable._

 

The DACMagic via optical and coax is better than it is via USB. I still think the Pico DAC-only is one of the best USB DAC for under $700. The Apogee mini-DAC, Stello DA100 and PS Audio DLIII also seem to have very good USB performance like the Pico.


----------



## rated1975

Thanks for all the helpful responses to my earlier post. Sorry about not being more specific, but i should have mentioned the dac would be used with its usb input almost all of the time. Based on your responses and that of others in other threads, its seems as though the 701's might best be served by the pico. Based on covenant's comments that the pico would be "smoother and cleaner", as opposed to the "resolving and more detailed" nature of the dacmagic, my feeling is that the dacmagic may make the 701's sound over-analytical/detailed. Hence, maybe the "smoother" nature of the pico is most suited to the 701's. An assumption only as i have not heard either to date, i could be wrong. Throw in the other variable, aka the modded WA6, and this assumption could be well off the mark. Any further advice would be appreciated here.

 Your comments regarding cost is also an important consideration for me, as the Stello and PS Audio retail in AU at around the $1000.00 mark, whereas the pico could be had for less than half of that. For my first dac im not quite willing to part with the higher amount for the full sized desktop dacs.

 It seems inconceivable that the pico can compete (almost?) SQ-wise with dacs ten times its physical size, driven via usb only, though i guess that's probably why its been so well accepted and praised by so many.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

My Sophia Princess is turning smokey color after 200+ hours of usage, is this common the SP on WooAudio Amps? Or am I the only person experiencing this... The glow seems to be less bright in view of the darken glass. However, sonically it is getting better day after day.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sophia Princess is turning smokey color after 200+ hours of usage, is this common the SP on WooAudio Amps? Or am I the only person experiencing this... The glow seems to be less bright in view of the darken glass. However, sonically it is getting better day after day._

 

My princess is the same, it get darker after 100+ hours.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sophia Princess is turning smokey color after 200+ hours of usage, is this common the SP on WooAudio Amps? Or am I the only person experiencing this... The glow seems to be less bright in view of the darken glass. However, sonically it is getting better day after day._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My princess is the same, it get darker after 100+ hours._

 

Hey folks,

 I have my Sophia with 283 hrs marked and I don't have any problem like you does. The glass is crystal clear in the upper 2/3 part and like mirror in the lower part 1/3, glow similar as day one, not getting darker and sounds GOOD.


----------



## Rob N

Alot of the old rectifiers stain after use.I have 5AR4 metalbase that tests new but has quite a lot of staining and more silvering than a NOS example


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Jamato8 was one of the first to post about the darkening of the Sophia with age. Mine is only mildly darker, and not any darker than the one that was on the loaner WA22 I had here a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## melomaniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Speederlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Channel Islands VDA2:
Channel Islands Audio_

 

on a price/performance curve, I'd second that!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* 
_ i should have mentioned the dac would be used with its usb input almost all of the time_

 

but in that case, the Pico works pretty well. I don't like it quite as much as the CIA VDA2 tho'


----------



## Covenant

My last Sophia started to darken after about 100hrs as well.

 Btw, has anyone tried the RCA 6DE7 for drive tubes? I sent Jack an email recently asking what his favourite drive tubes for the WA6SE are, and got this response:

  Quote:


 I don't have an absolute favorite driver/power tubes. Though, I found the RCA 6DE7 sounded tonally balanced. Most 6EW7 work very well, however. 
 

Makes me want to grab some and try them out


----------



## ciphercomplete

"I don't have an absolute favorite driver/power tubes. Though, I found the RCA 6DE7 sounded tonally balanced. Most 6EW7 work very well, however."

 If only Jack would start making adapters again so I can use the GE 6EW7 tubes I picked up a while back. I have a older WA6 made before Jack widened the tube openings.


----------



## IctusBrucks

snip


----------



## peanuthead

Back in the Woo club. Ordered another 6SE (black this time). 
 Just can't shake the blissful memory of listening to HD800/6SE combo...


----------



## mikeymad

Nice... you can only go away for so long....

 Cheers,


----------



## Toad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"I don't have an absolute favorite driver/power tubes. Though, I found the RCA 6DE7 sounded tonally balanced. Most 6EW7 work very well, however."

 If only Jack would start making adapters again so I can use the GE 6EW7 tubes I picked up a while back. I have a older WA6 made before Jack widened the tube openings._

 

I've been trying to get that adapter from him for I think 2 years now, if you ever get him to give in let me know, haha...You know you can get small bottle 6ew7 tubes that will fit fine (though I'm not sure if they sound the same as the fat bottle ones), i have a few pairs, though I prefer the 6de7s.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back in the Woo club. Ordered another 6SE (black this time). 
 Just can't shake the blissful felling of listening to HD800/6SE combo..._

 

Welcome back, peanuthead. Please share you impression on the new combo, I have my HD800 ordered and told that have to wait until OCT, poor.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been trying to get that adapter from him for I think 2 years now, if you ever get him to give in let me know, haha...You know you can get small bottle 6ew7 tubes that will fit fine (though I'm not sure if they sound the same as the fat bottle ones), i have a few pairs, though I prefer the 6de7s._

 

You can get the adapters *that may fit* on ebay. They are called Tube Socket Savers.


----------



## koven

question.. how superior is the wa6 to the wa3+? 

 are both a significant upgrade from an ef1?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_question.. how superior is the wa6 to the wa3+? 

 are both a significant upgrade from an ef1?_

 

Jamato8 might be a good person to ask, as he has used both.


----------



## koven

thanks, i sent him a PM

 i actually spotted a used stock WA6 for sale... i think i'm going to pull the trigger because the price is right

 however, it does not have PDPS and i'm wondering how big of a deal that is.. a lot of people said it makes a big difference... do you think i would be able to send this unit to wooaudio and have them add the pdps? or is that impossible


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks, i sent him a PM

 i actually spotted a used stock WA6 for sale... i think i'm going to pull the trigger because the price is right

 however, it does not have PDPS and i'm wondering how big of a deal that is.. a lot of people said it makes a big difference... do you think i would be able to send this unit to wooaudio and have them add the pdps? or is that impossible_

 

I sent mine back May 2008 to have it done and mine was the first one Woo did for a customer (after much begging). It makes a difference but you have to burn-in the amp again, so I didn't hear the improvement for a few months because of the lengthy burn-in of the huge Blackgate caps. I think it was $200 for my maxed WA6 to be opened and modded since it wasn't routine for them, but now you could get it done for about $130 later when you are ready. The Sophia Princess rectifier probably makes as much of a difference.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks, i sent him a PM

 i actually spotted a used stock WA6 for sale... i think i'm going to pull the trigger because the price is right

 however, it does not have PDPS and i'm wondering how big of a deal that is.. a lot of people said it makes a big difference... do you think i would be able to send this unit to wooaudio and have them add the pdps? or is that impossible_

 

If you want to save on shipping, have the seller ship it straight to Woo Audio to have the PDPS mod done. I think it costs a little over $100 for the mod, and from all accounts, definitely worth the cost.


----------



## koven

thanks, told him i'll take it, waiting for the reply now.. and i will send wooaudio an email about adding the pdps

 i think i'll keep my ef2 for comparison purposes.. will be interesting to hear the difference


----------



## takezo

forget about the blackgate caps for the power section. get the blackgate caps
 for the cathode bypass section as i think it makes the most difference. the pdps
 started by jamato is essential to get the best out of any tube you're using on the
 wa6. the input coupling cap is critical as well but secondary to the above.


----------



## IctusBrucks

Hello,

 I've had a Woo3+ that I've been using for a few weeks now.

 I really like the sound of the 3+. I've had it at my work office but have brought it home for a bit while I await another amp...wa22....












 I've honestly never been a huge headphone guru, more into speakers themselves, but this year my wife and I had our first baby which has made it more difficult to enjoy loud music/movies at the times and volumes I want to. 

 So I started down the rabbit hole of headphone research and purchases 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am currently awaiting:

 WA22 Black
 +7236 pair
 +Treasure CV181 pair
 +Sophia 274B

 I currently have a set of DT990s I've been listening to on the WA3+. I loved them at first, but after extended listening I find the sound fatiguing, there seems to be some mid-bass resonance going on that is making the mids seem thin. Might be break in though as they only have ~100hrs so far.

 I will soon be taking a look at the Grado GS1000 and another look at the K702.

 Any thoughts as to what would be a great match for the WA22? Since it has the low-high impedance switch I wonder how it would drive the low impedance Grados.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_forget about the blackgate caps for the power section. get the blackgate caps
 for the cathode bypass section as i think it makes the most difference. the pdps
 started by jamato is essential to get the best out of any tube you're using on the
 wa6. the input coupling cap is critical as well but secondary to the above._

 

Since my WA6 is maxed with Blackgates and Vcaps already, Jack felt it was best to stick with using the caps that come with the maxed version.


----------



## takezo

of course, if one has the budget to "max" the unit, then that's cherry on top...
 however, panasonic ts-ed electrolytic caps are on par with the polar electrolytic caps
 by blackgate and what's more, the former are 1/5 the price in most areas.
 if one can spring for the NON-polar types then there's no arguments there. i think
 it's the best there is, although the elna silmic II are excellent at what they do best,
 which is timbre and vocal reproduction. it just lags behind in transparency and prat.
 i've seen some wooaudio amps have the non-polar types used but most have the
 polar types, less expensive, implemented. again, go for the panasonics as they will give
 identical SQ at 1/5 the price of the polar types.

 another critical point that influences the SQ, more than i initially thought, are the 
 resistors at the cathode plate resistance of the power section and the cathode bypass
 position used for bias. cheaper metal film types introduce background noise and etched highs.
 using carbon types there really improves the SQ. be wary of carbon types that can't
 hold there specs very long and start to drift with heat. rikens are my favorite. kiwame
 and takman seem to be almost as sweet.


----------



## koven

well, the wa6 is officially mine.. i will post some pics when it arrives!

 im going to hold off on the PDPS for now and just see how it sounds w/ the sophia.... maybe in the future i will send it in for the pdps mod


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, the wa6 is officially mine.. i will post some pics when it arrives!_

 

Welcome to the club


----------



## koven

thanks Covenant, i will have a very similar setup as you.. Pico-> WA6 -> HD580


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, the wa6 is officially mine.. i will post some pics when it arrives!

 im going to hold off on the PDPS for now and just see how it sounds w/ the sophia.... maybe in the future i will send it in for the pdps mod_

 

Welcome to the club and you will be well served by the WA6 for sure.


----------



## indydieselnut

Anyone notice that the parts upgrade isn't available on the WA6 anymore? Is Jack saving the BG's for more expensive amps?

 I just sold my WA6SE maxxed in an effort to cut down my investment in headphones...might live to regret it. However, I was considering ordering a WA6 since I'm still left with most of my NOS tubes and I DO need an amp. The PDPS will be a no-brainer for $60 but I'm curious as to whether I should approach Jack about any parts upgrades? 

 I'm drooling over a WA22. I've sold several amps so even if I ordered a WA22 I could still rationalize it as "cutting back"...and I could take my DT880's off the for sale forum...

 The other dilemma is that I'm torn over parts upgrades. I could almost swing a WA5LE but there's no way I could swing the $1,100 in parts upgrades. I almost wish things like the parts upgrades and power supply upgrades didn't exist...it always seems to make you wonder what you're missing out on!

 End of ramble...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone notice that the parts upgrade isn't available on the WA6 anymore? Is Jack saving the BG's for more expensive amps?

 I just sold my WA6SE maxxed in an effort to cut down my investment in headphones...might live to regret it. However, I was considering ordering a WA6 since I'm still left with most of my NOS tubes and I DO need an amp. The PDPS will be a no-brainer for $60 but I'm curious as to whether I should approach Jack about any parts upgrades? 

 I'm drooling over a WA22. I've sold several amps so even if I ordered a WA22 I could still rationalize it as "cutting back"...and I could take my DT880's off the for sale forum...

 The other dilemma is that I'm torn over parts upgrades. I could almost swing a WA5LE but there's no way I could swing the $1,100 in parts upgrades. I almost wish things like the parts upgrades and power supply upgrades didn't exist...it always seems to make you wonder what you're missing out on!

 End of ramble..._

 

I would just get a WA22 without all the upgrades, and pick some good tubes for it.


----------



## CandlePower

Here's a few pics of my WA6. The AKG K702's are visible in some. I thought someone who might be thinking of buying one of these might like more pics of how they look. Everybody who says the workmanship rocks is spot-on. You can see it in the photos. I saturated the color to bring out the glow of the tube elements for photographic effect. They're more subdued.


----------



## koven

hi candlepower, i'd love to see the pictures but they are not showing up!



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club and you will be well served by the WA6 for sure._

 

thanks


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Very nice pictures..


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi candlepower, i'd love to see the pictures but they are not showing up!





 thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I see the pictures perfectly here..


----------



## CandlePower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi candlepower, i'd love to see the pictures but they are not showing up!





 thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just as soon as I posted them, SmugMug's site went down for maintainence. That may be what's up, but they're showing up for me.


----------



## koven

weird.. still cant see them!


----------



## CandlePower

SmugMug is still down for maintenance.


----------



## rated1975

I can now officially "unite"
 WA6 arrived yesterday, having been putting the Sophia through her paces, and am liking it more by the hour. Congrats to those who have also recently purchased Woo products.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Amazing glow from the Sophia Princess. Mine has turn smoked after using for 300+ hours.


----------



## rated1975

Good time to take some more photos then, straight out of the box.


----------



## koven

^ very nice.. how does it sound with your k701?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good time to take some more photos then, straight out of the box.




_

 

The power LED looks purple. Did you have Jack change it from the stock blue?


----------



## dannie01

I can see blue instead of purple, Glenn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, nice pic and nice Woo 6.


----------



## atbglenn

Danny,

 I see purple on three different monitors...strange


----------



## peanuthead

I see purplish blue. Suspect color saturation in a photo-editing software.


----------



## dannie01

Maybe the color display each of our pc is that different to show purple in 3 different monitors from Glenn, purplish blue from peanut and blue in mine the LED color of rated1975's Woo6, strange, indeed.


----------



## atbglenn

I have to agree with peanuthead that it does have a touch of blue in the mix, but I mostly see purple. It is possible it's just the way rated1975's camera picked up the colors. Who knows?


 Edit: my Dell XPS1210 laptop displays more blue than my desktop monitors. I would imagine my desktop monitors are more accurate.


----------



## takezo

i would describe it as a fairly strong purple fringe processed by the camera cpu...


----------



## peanuthead

Good job rated1975. You've started the first major controversy of the Woo thread.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good job rated1975. You've started the first major controversy of the Woo thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's all my fault!


----------



## musicmind

Purlpe Haze-gate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very cool pic, enjoy your new amp.


----------



## CandlePower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can now officially "unite"
 WA6 arrived yesterday, having been putting the Sophia through her paces, and am liking it more by the hour. Congrats to those who have also recently purchased Woo products. 




_

 

Cool pic! I'd buy one of those Sophia's just for the glow.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll have to keep us posted as to whether the glass gets smoky.

 OutdoorXplorer, does the smoked glass significantly obscure the glow of the tube?


----------



## koven

Nice pics CandlePower, it looks great in silver.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice pics CandlePower, it looks great in silver._

 

I love my silver WA6. It has a classy look. BTW, congrats on your Woo purchase


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CandlePower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool pic! I'd buy one of those Sophia's just for the glow.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You'll have to keep us posted as to whether the glass gets smoky.

 OutdoorXplorer, does the smoked glass significantly obscure the glow of the tube?_

 

It took away almost 15% of the glow as for now.


----------



## rated1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ very nice.. how does it sound with your k701?_

 

so far pretty good, but getting better by the day. ive only put about 60 hours or so on the 701's, 20 of those with the new WA6. 701's were horrible to begin with but seem to be loosing their harshness rapidly. these two items are my first venture into the world of head-fi so i really have nothing else to compare with, but being an avid lover of traditional speaker audio, the musical reproduction on this system is quite astounding. and its supposed to get better !


----------



## rated1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good job rated1975. You've started the first major controversy of the Woo thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Controversy maybe, but in truth i think its the standard blue light mixing on the table surface (walnut/ebony colour) combined with the orange glow of the Sophia which maybe be creating the apparent purple colour. I can assure you its a standard "blue Woo light"


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Controversy maybe, but in truth i think its the standard blue light mixing on the table surface (walnut/ebony colour) combined with the orange glow of the Sophia which maybe be creating the apparent purple colour. I can assure you its a standard "blue Woo light"_

 

No controversy at all, I would say this is gentle discussion between owners of the Woo amp with different point of view in color. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the clarification, rated1975, and the very nice pics.


----------



## IctusBrucks

anybody notice the updated wa22 pics on the wooaudio site?

 Looks like the proportions have changed quite a bit.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IctusBrucks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anybody notice the updated wa22 pics on the wooaudio site?

 Looks like the proportions have changed quite a bit._

 

I noticed. It's now using 6NS7's instead of 12AX7's for the driver tubes. I wonder how much different it sounds?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IctusBrucks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anybody notice the updated wa22 pics on the wooaudio site?

 Looks like the proportions have changed quite a bit._

 

It had to be made taller so that the inductors would fit within the case and not have to hang out of a couple of holes in the bottom.


----------



## IctusBrucks

Has anybody else's amp noise floor changed over time?

 At first I had a Keces 151 feeding my WA3+, and it was giving radio interference with max volume. I got a DAC1 USB last week and it fixed the issue.

 The first time I tested the noise floor with the DAC1, the WA3+ was 100% silent at max volume, absolutely no hum or buzz.


 Last night I did the same test and there is an audible electronic buzz at max volume, and its barely but slightly audible at 12 o'clock (my normal listening vol). No huge deal but makes me wonder... Is this normal for the tube noise floor to change?

 Also I notice that if I plug in my headphones while the WA3+ is on (and I'm wearing the headphones), there is a high pitched noise that happens for 2-3 seconds that quickly fades.

 Is it bad to plug headphones into the amp while it's running? Did I make the noise floor worse by doing that? I was doing some A/B comparisons between the DAC1s and and the WA3+s headphone output...

 Thanks
 Ryan


----------



## TexasGrapeApe

Just ordered my WA6 with PSDS and Sophia...got so excited I forgot to select a shipping preference and to add the feet that others have mentioned...


----------



## indydieselnut

Congrats Texas!! It's a great feeling...the wait is killer...


----------



## koven

got an hd650 w/ blue dragon v3 coming to go w/ my wa6! cant wait to hear the combo


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IctusBrucks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it bad to plug headphones into the amp while it's running? Did I make the noise floor worse by doing that?_

 

Yes, it is unless you minimise the volume before plugging/unplugging. I'm not sure if you coul have damaged the amp by doing so though, someone more knowledgeable will have to chime in.

 By the way, the 6FD7's that i was experiencing cracking noises with arrived back at the seller, who retested them and cannot find any issues with them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder what's up with my amp that it doesn't seem to like this tube type.


----------



## rated1975




----------



## dannie01

Wow, another pic of the beauty Sophia.


----------



## TexasGrapeApe

Question for the group here...has anyone changed cans based on adding the Sophia to their WA? I have yet to decide on cans (have a few weeks I think until my WA6 arrives I am guessing) so wanted to see if anyone "was using can-A but now with Sophia added have now switched to can-B"...

 Nice Sophia pic indeed...


----------



## qusp

dont know if this is allowed in here; I am not a woo owner, but I was able to use Covenant's over last weekend when I stayed at his place while visiting for the Sydney head-fi meet. i'm usually not a lover of tubes as I find that when not this well implemented; they sway the SQ to a slow and syrupy place, that my already somewhat warm cans do not gel well with.

 this was not the case with Woo 6SE maxxed that Jason has. I found the bass to have great authority, the mids to be nicely textured and quite musical and the highs to be well extended and quite smooth; yet with enough sparkle to stop my modded Denons from sounding too warm. It did sound better with HD600, but the Denons were more than passable.

 this rig had a bit of a hard act to follow in that my portable rig with iriver->D10->Lisa III and JH13 is pretty superb sounding


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this was not the case with Woo 6SE maxxed that Jason has. I found the bass to have great authority, the mids to be nicely textured and quite musical and the highs to be well extended and quite smooth; yet with enough sparkle to stop my modded Denons from sounding too warm. It did sound better with HD600, but the Denons were more than passable._

 

Thanks Jeremy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If I had to summarise my impressions of the Woo so far in a word, it'd be "refined". It does everything with finesse, authority and control, but in an unobtrusive way. There is no obvious tube colouration on the sound other than a slight mellowing of highs and a hint of added lushness, with the end result being a very analog, yet dynamic and involving sound. Of course, I'm biassed since I spent alot of money on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On another note, this new Sophia has *really* darkened alot. Its at about 120hrs now and the glass could almost be called opaque. Should I be worried?


----------



## johnwmclean

I'm not familiar with that particular tube, I do know that the 300b's I had went dark around the base, but the rest of the tube was clear. When you say opaque that worries me, it maybe a sign it's losing vacuum.


----------



## Covenant

I'm probably just being paranoid. But here's a shot of the tube - pardon the slight blurriness, my camera isnt that great:


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm probably just being paranoid. But here's a shot of the tube - pardon the slight blurriness, my camera isnt that great:_

 

Mine Sophia looks exactly like this. I started changing its color after 100 hours of usage. The sound is still great so I guess there is nothing to be worried of.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

All Sophia Princess 274b darken with age, it is not unusual or a problem.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All Sophia Princess 274b darken with age, it is not unusual or a problem._

 

How dark will they get?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How dark will they get?_

 

I light grey sunglass color - not black or anything like that.


----------



## El_Doug

does anyone own a WA4? 

 it just seems like so many people would love it, in place of an upgraded WA6SE - yet it goes unmentioned!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All Sophia Princess 274b darken with age, it is not unusual or a problem._

 

It is much more obvious on silver colored units.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is much more obvious on silver colored units._

 

But who in their right mind would buy a silver unit?

 Oh wait...


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But who in their right mind would buy a silver unit?

 Oh wait... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ooops I am one of the minority..


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am rolling the set of tubes that I have in storage and they are:

 * RCA 6EW7
 * Sylvania branded GE NOS Fat Bottled 6FD7
 * Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7

 I find the RCA 6EW7 being the most neutral amongst the 3 pair. The fat bottled 6FD7 provides additional 15% gain but the overall sound spectrum are bloated and sound muddy. The remaining fat bottled 6EW7 is slightly brighter than the RCA 6EW7 and wider soundstage too.

 The other tubes I am storing for good are the stock United 6EW7 and RCA 6DE7 which I bought for the WA6.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the RCA 6EW7 being the most neutral amongst the 3 pair. The fat bottled 6FD7 provides additional 15% gain but the overall sound spectrum are bloated and sound muddy. The remaining fat bottled 6EW7 is slightly brighter than the RCA 6EW7 and wider soundstage too._

 

Thanks for those impressions Outdoor, interesting that you found the RCA 6EW7 to be more neutral/clearer tha the Sylvania 6FD7 big bottle. Takezo touts those 6FD7s for their clarity and punch.

 Its good news for me though, since I'm leery about trying other 6FD7s after the last batch caused issues. I've got Jack sending me a set of RCA 6DE7 currently as well, as he apparently likes them.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for those impressions Outdoor, interesting that you found the RCA 6EW7 to be more neutral/clearer tha the Sylvania 6FD7 big bottle. Takezo touts those 6FD7s for their clarity and punch.

 Its good news for me though, since I'm leery about trying other 6FD7s after the last batch caused issues. I've got Jack sending me a set of RCA 6DE7 currently as well, as he apparently likes them._

 

The RCA 6EW7 is much detailed in comparison to 6FD7 and low frequencies are deeper even with lower gain. The Sylvania fat bottled 6EWY sound less tubey and music is more towards SS.

 I love the warmed and detailed RCA 6EW7 foregoing wider soundstage effect.


----------



## 88Sound

I recently aquired a Woo Audio WA6SE Maxxed with Princess (except it has regular tube sockets). The unit is 3-4 months old with approx. 200 hrs on it. Considering the Black Gates this unit is just starting on the road to being broken in. I am primarily pairing it with the Grado PS1000, it sounds exceptional and I'm no stranger to tube amps.

 When I received the unit it had Raytheon's as the driver tubes, one of these tubes had a single halo top getter, and the other was a clear top with side getter, are these both 6EW7's? could they possibly be matched considering the difference in construction? I swapped them out for Westinghouse 6EW7 Clear tops. A pair of International C 6EW7's were also included which I have not tried.

 I'm very impressed with the construction of the Woo and love the sound with the PS1000's, I'll eventually get to my other phones with this amp but am having too much fun to swap at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 By the way it is silver and looks incredible with the PS1000's and my silver lamp (for anyone who thinks silver is always inferior to black 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) All my other electronics are black but I love the Woo in silver!


----------



## peanuthead

Congrats on your Woo. 6SE is truly a top-tier performer.
 I don't think the tubes have to be "matched," but I'd at least try to make sure the tubes are identical models.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *88Sound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently aquired a Woo Audio WA6SE Maxxed with Princess (except it has regular tube sockets). The unit is 3-4 months old with approx. 200 hrs on it. Considering the Black Gates this unit is just starting on the road to being broken in. I am primarily pairing it with the Grado PS1000, it sounds exceptional and I'm no stranger to tube amps.

 When I received the unit it had Raytheon's as the driver tubes, one of these tubes had a single halo top getter, and the other was a clear top with side getter, are these both 6EW7's? could they possibly be matched considering the difference in construction? I swapped them out for Westinghouse 6EW7 Clear tops. A pair of International C 6EW7's were also included which I have not tried.

 I'm very impressed with the construction of the Woo and love the sound with the PS1000's, I'll eventually get to my other phones with this amp but am having too much fun to swap at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way it is silver and looks incredible with the PS1000's and my silver lamp (for anyone who thinks silver is always inferior to black 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) All my other electronics are black but I love the Woo in silver! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *88Sound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently aquired a Woo Audio WA6SE Maxxed with Princess (except it has regular tube sockets)._

 

Congrats on your new Woo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I agree the WA6SE sounds excellent with Grados, I bit the bullet on the HF-2 after hearing them on my amp.

 I'll leave the tube question for someone with more know-how, though.


----------



## yoff

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *88Sound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... for anyone who thinks silver is always inferior to black 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) ..._

 

Where are they !? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... silver is superior !


----------



## El_Doug

I just sent Jack my final payment! ~6 weeks until my WES arrives 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ...in silver!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yoff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are they !? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... silver is superior ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For me, silver is the only way to go. I was never a big fan of black audio equipment..


----------



## koven

Do you guys think a better power cable would benefit the WA6? I'm just using a generic one right now. I'm trying to make sure there's no "weak" links in my system.. not sure if the power cable counts.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *88Sound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..... By the way it is silver and looks incredible with the PS1000's and my silver lamp (for anyone who thinks silver is always inferior to black 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) All my other electronics are black but I love the Woo in silver! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yoff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are they !? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... silver is superior ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, silver is the only way to go. I was never a big fan of black audio equipment.._

 

Finally, someone with silver units shines Woo's topic.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you guys think a better power cable would benefit the WA6? I'm just using a generic one right now. I'm trying to make sure there's no "weak" links in my system.. not sure if the power cable counts._

 

Some boutique power cables may extend additional edge to WA6 but don't expect day and night difference of the same setup. I am currently using a Volex 17616 cable which were made in Mexico and I paid less than $5 for the bare wires without plugs. I have a Supra LoRad 2.5 for my next DIY PC on order now.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you guys think a better power cable would benefit the WA6? I'm just using a generic one right now. I'm trying to make sure there's no "weak" links in my system.. not sure if the power cable counts._

 

My personal belief is expensive power cords do nothing for SQ, especially in a low current draw headphone amp. Some believe they can hear a difference. I believe the differences they hear are caused by the placebo effect.


----------



## h.rav

^ Agree, expensive power cords look good though


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Agree, expensive power cords look good though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Some of them look amazing, but definitely not worth the money...at least for me


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My personal belief is expensive power cords do nothing for SQ, especially in a low current draw headphone amp. Some believe they can hear a difference. I believe the differences they hear are caused by the placebo effect._

 

It is OK to spend some monie$ on power cables and just don't overspent. Obvious difference is heard on the low frequencies are heard when I switched to higher grade power cables.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some of them look amazing, but definitely not worth the money...at least for me_

 

DIY will not cost too much...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DIY will not cost too much..._

 

If you're going to do it, DIY is definitely the way to go.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're going to do it, DIY is definitely the way to go._

 

In fact all my power cables are DIYed. Let's focus on Woo Audio amps for now.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sent Jack my final payment! ~6 weeks until my WES arrives 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 ...in silver!_

 

Congrats! It certainly is one beautiful looking amplifier. Best of luck with it


----------



## koven

I just picked up a used Gilmore Lite due to curiosity, will be my first SS amp. Will be interested to see how it compares to my WA6.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Not too sure bout Gilmore Lite, but I can tell it is hell of a difference when I compare the satisfaction I had in comparison with the RSA XP-7 + DPSU which I owned previously. Now with the WA6SE maxxed, I can hardly think of any other amps of its price range.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just picked up a used Gilmore Lite due to curiosity, will be my first SS amp. Will be interested to see how it compares to my WA6._

 

We've created a monster!


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not too sure bout Gilmore Lite, but I can tell it is hell of a difference when I compare the satisfaction I had in comparison with the RSA XP-7 + DPSU which I owned previously. Now with the WA6SE maxxed, I can hardly think of any other amps of its price range._

 

Yeah, I don't expect the Gilmore Lite to sound better than the WA6. But I've heard a lot of good things about it so I wanted to see for myself what the deal with SS amps are.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We've created a monster! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lol, indeed


----------



## koven

Quick question.. the volume knob and impedance selector on my WA6 are a bit loose. As in, there is a wiggle room. Also, it seems that the impedance selector does not lock in high or low, it's just loose.. if that makes sense.

 Does this sound normal? Could I open it up myself and fix this?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question.. the volume knob and impedance selector on my WA6 are a bit loose. As in, there is a wiggle room. Also, it seems that the impedance selector does not lock in high or low, it's just loose.. if that makes sense.

 Does this sound normal? Could I open it up myself and fix this?_

 

Yeah, I had a similar issue with my volume knob ater taking the Woo to a meet and back. There are holes in the sides of each knob with a hex bolt inside, a 2mm hex wrench will tighten them.

 Also, the Gilmore Light (dynalo) is actually a pretty nice sounding amp. I'm sure you'll enjoy it


----------



## koven

^ Thanks, I will see if I can tighten those bolts.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just picked up a used Gilmore Lite due to curiosity, will be my first SS amp. Will be interested to see how it compares to my WA6._

 

I was so impressed by the Gilmore Lite I ended up getting the GS-1.


----------



## DarKu

Hello WooAudio Gurus! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Did some of you listened the Woo6SE stock and 6SE with "premium parts upgrade package" ? It is a big difference between them or it is just some hype behind the Black Gates??
 6SE it is pricey for me, but with premium parts it's already an expensive amp. I thinking about a new amp and this one draws my attention the most ( the second on the list is an GS-1) Do you think an 6SE with Sophia will do the job? Do i need better drive/power tubes too others than stock ones ?
 Thank you


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

My Sophia Princess finally RIP today. It lasted approx 500+ hours from the date I took possession since mid May 2009. I and surprised of its short lifespan. Wonder whether Jack will provide a replacement.


----------



## dannie01

Too bad to hear that,OutdoorXplorer. That's weird, maybe it's become dying when you said it looks smoky inside. Also Jack offer 30 days warranty for the Sophia only so I'm not sure you'll have a replacement after used from May till now of it.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I noted that 30 days warranty period too. I wonder where else can I purchase another SP 274B rather than from Woo Audio. Reason for looking else where is for a longer warranty period. 30 days is just to short to test out the tube.


----------



## dannie01

Direct from Sophia Electric, they offer one year warranty of the 274B Mesh Plate for US190.

 "Postal international express with insurance: $32 for the first unit, $3 for each additional unit. "

 EDIT. One more option, the EML 274B Mesh from JAC MUSIC, Euro148 + shipping, email them for a quotation and you'll have it with shipping cost included. Learned that from a thread somewhere around saying that the sound of the EML 274B Mesh is even better than the Sophia (not sure, never try before and this is the one that I was targeted to my 6SE) but of course price higher.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I just sent an email to Richard of Sophia Electric inquiring whether it is normal for the tube to turned smokey after some time and at the same time asking about the purchase. Let see what he replies.


----------



## iTui

May I ask your suggestion for a set of balanced cables connecting between C.E.C TL51XR and WA22? My cans are HD800 and L3000. Thanks in advance for your comments.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello WooAudio Gurus! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Did some of you listened the Woo6SE stock and 6SE with "premium parts upgrade package" ? It is a big difference between them or it is just some hype behind the Black Gates??_

 

Hi DarKu, I had difficulty getting conclusive answers to this one as well, as few people seem to have compared upgraded units to the stock units. Takezo has a WA6 with Blackgates and a stock WA6SE though (or was that the other way around?), and he informed me that most of the difference was in the tone of the units. If you PM him you might get some more info.

  Quote:


 Do i need better drive/power tubes too others than stock ones ?
 Thank you 
 

All the driver tubes for the WA6SE are cheap, which is a plus. There don't seem to be any truly "premium" drive tube options, so just buy a few different brands/types and find the set you like.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sophia Princess finally RIP today. It lasted approx 500+ hours from the date I took possession since mid May 2009. I and surprised of its short lifespan. Wonder whether Jack will provide a replacement._

 

Sorry to hear that Outdoor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 EDIT. One more option, the EML 274B Mesh from JAC MUSIC, Euro148 + shipping, email them for a quotation and you'll have it with shipping cost included. Learned that from a thread somewhere around saying that the sound of the EML 274B Mesh is even better than the Sophia (not sure, never try before and this is the one that I was targeted to my 6SE) but of course price higher._

 

I asked Jack Woo about the EML tubes at one stage, and he recommended the EML 5U4G instead:
5U4G Data sheet. Emission Labs.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sent an email to Richard of Sophia Electric inquiring whether it is normal for the tube to turned smokey after some time and at the same time asking about the purchase. Let see what he replies._

 

I'd be very interested in this reply, please post it when you get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iTui* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May I ask your suggestion for a set of balanced cables connecting between C.E.C TL51XR and WA22? My cans are HD800 and L3000. Thanks in advance for your comments._

 

iTui, that shot of the WA22 is beautiful. Congrats!

 Regarding interconnects, I found that OCC copper tends to match my tastes the most. SPC can sound nice too, if you like a slightly brighter, more detailed type of sound. If you go with SPC, I'd contact APureSound and source some balanced IC's from them. For OCC, there are several companies around. All my OCC cables were done by Qusp of Twisted Cables, who I'm sure could tailor some XLR IC's to suit your needs.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello WooAudio Gurus! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Did some of you listened the Woo6SE stock and 6SE with "premium parts upgrade package" ? It is a big difference between them or it is just some hype behind the Black Gates??
 6SE it is pricey for me, but with premium parts it's already an expensive amp. I thinking about a new amp and this one draws my attention the most ( the second on the list is an GS-1) Do you think an 6SE with Sophia will do the job? Do i need better drive/power tubes too others than stock ones ?
 Thank you_

 

from my experiences, the biggest differences in sound comes from the blackgate
 upgrades in the following positions: a) the cathode plate cap and b) the
 cathode bypass cap. it influences the tonal characteristics and
 soundstage imaging as much as the input stage coupling caps like v-cap.

 the input stage coupling caps influences the timbre, speed and transparency
 just as much. (the wa6SE doesn't utilize input coupling caps but the resistor
 in the signal path is critical in tonal characteristics. carbon types offer a
 warm and euphonic tone, whereas the film metal types offer a more cool
 neutral tone with slightly harder edges at the top.)

 the blackgate upgrades in the power filtering stages are marginal in
 improvement of providing a black background. even the stock
 filters wooaudio uses is adequate. the panasonic ts-ed filtering caps
 are exceptional and on par with the blackgates at 1/4 the price.

 i'd recommend the 6de7/6cy7 for rock and pop. the 6sn7 and 6dn7 for
 classical, vocal and small ensemble jazz. wooaudio now carries the adapter
 for the 6sn7/6dn7.　（this works for the wa6. for the wa6SE the adapter
 needs a 1.4k resistor in the path of pin 9 to raise the cathode impedance
 from 3.3k to 4.7k ohms. i don't think wooaudio has experimented with the SE, yet)


----------



## CandlePower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sophia Princess finally RIP today. It lasted approx 500+ hours from the date I took possession since mid May 2009. I and surprised of its short lifespan. Wonder whether Jack will provide a replacement._

 

Wow, that tube-life seems way to short.

 Here's some stuff I found on Tubes at: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/How_Vacuum_Tubes_Work.htm

 3) Lifetime of cathodes: The lifetime of a tube is determined by the lifetime of its cathode emission. And the life of the of a cathode is dependent on the cathode temperature, the degree of vacuum in the tube, and purity of the materials in the cathode.

 Tube life is sharply dependent on temperature, which means that it is dependent on filament or heater operating voltage. Operate the heater/filament too hot, and the tube will give a shortened life. Operate it too cool and life may be shortened (especially in thoriated filaments, which depend on replenishment of thorium by diffusion from within the filament wire). A few researchers have observed that the lifetime of an oxide-cathode tube can be greatly increased by operating its heater at 20% below the rated voltage. This USUALLY has very little effect on the cathode's electron emission, and might be worth experimenting with if the user wishes to increase the lifetime of a small-signal tube. (Low heater voltage is NOT recommended for power tubes, as the tube may not give the rated power output.) Operating the heater at a very low voltage has been observed to linearize some tube types-- we have not been able to verify this, so it may be another worthy experiment for an OEM or sophisticated experimenter. The average end-user is advised to use the rated heater or filament voltage--experimentation is not recommended unless the user is an experienced technician. 
 Oxide cathodes tend to give shorter lifetimes than thoriated filaments. Purity of materials is a big issue in making long-lived oxide cathodes--some impurities, such as silicates in the nickel tube, will cause the cathode to lose emission prematurely and "wear out". Low-cost tubes of inferior quality often wear out faster than better-quality tubes of the same type, due to impure cathodes. 
 Small-signal tubes almost always use oxide cathodes. Good-quality tubes of this type, if operated well within their ratings and at the correct heater voltage, can last 100,000 hours or more. 
The world record for lifetime of a power tube is held by a large transmitting tetrode with a thoriated filament. It was in service in a Los Angeles radio station's transmitter for 10 years, for a total of more than 80,000 hours. When finally taken out of service, it was still functioning adequately. (The station saved it as a spare.) By comparison, a typical oxide-cathode glass power tube, such as an EL34, will last about 1500-2000 hours; and a tube with an oxide-coated filament, such as an SV300B, will last about 4000-10,000 hours. This is dependent on all the factors listed above, so different customers will observe different lifetimes.


----------



## DarKu

*Covenant* and *takezo* thank you very much!
 When I will have the money I will order an stock WA6SE with Sophia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and maybe will mod it by myself, too bad Blackgates are hard to find..
 I never heard a tube amp, but the Havana was a *big* surprise for me, so I can't go wrong with the Woo's


----------



## iTui

Covenant, thank you so much for your suggestion. I may go for OCC, but still need more opinion.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I have tried contacting Jack of Woo Audio and JacMusic but no reply from both of them. A quotation is received from Sophia Electric for a Princess with 12 months warranty. I am running the amp with my spare Princess and undecisive to purchase a EML 274B or another Princess as the first experience wasn't favorable due to the short lifespan. Both options cost the same except delivery time as EML takes 2 to 3 weeks to ship where else SP is within a week. 

 I am hoping someone to help in deciding which rectifier tube to go for.


----------



## dannie01

Covenant said 

 "I asked Jack Woo about the EML tubes at one stage, and he recommended the EML 5U4G instead:
5U4G Data sheet. Emission Labs


----------



## koven

Wow only 500 hours? Is that normal or did you just have a defect maybe?


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Hello to everyone!

 I want to jump on board the good ship Woo Audio very soon, so thought I would start right here.

 I recently discovered Woo Audio from reading the Steve Hoffman Music Forums. I want to use the upcoming Beatles Remasters as an excuse to upgrade my headphone gear. Currently using Etymotic ER-4S/ER-4P headphones and HeadRoom Ultra Micro Amp.

 I read that Steve Hoffman uses the Sennheiser HD-600/Woo Audio 6, and when I inquired via private message he highly recommend all things Woo! I've seen a lot of other people talking about that particular combination here in these forums, along with variations that include the HD-650, HD-800, (other great headphones), WA2, WA6 SE, WA22.

 So now the Newbie questions:

 Having noticed the HD-600/WA6 as a popular combination, are there other combos that have become popular with Woo Audio owners?

 Is it generally true that one would most likely be happier (and lighter in cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with each step along the Woo Audio product line ... WA6 ... WA2 ... WA6 SE ... WA22 ... WA5 LE ... and the WES Gulp?

 Could you safely recommend to someone new "just spend what you can afford, borrow, or steal" and then search for the matching headphones of your choice?

 Hit me with your best shot...

 And thanks!


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Both options cost the same except delivery time as EML takes 2 to 3 weeks to ship where else SP is within a week. 

 I am hoping someone to help in deciding which rectifier tube to go for._

 

Jack stocks the EML tubes as well, although I didn't confirm with him that he'll forward on the 1 year EML warranty. I'd double check that before buying, but it gives you an option to get one now if you decide to go that route.

 I also asked Takezo of his oppinion of the EML Vs Sophia, hope you dont mind me reposting it here:

  Quote:


 i like the eml 274b as much as the sophia 274b. they're slightly
 different in sound signature. whereas the sophia's brutuish at the
 bottom register and round at top, the eml is slightly tamer at
 the bottom and very wide and extended at the top. great for
 L3000, senn 650 and oddly enough the GS1000. the eml 274b
 makes the GS1000 sound very balanced and magical at the top
 with a 3-d holographic thing going for it. and it requires less
 burn-in then the sophia to sound at its best. 
 

Note that this is for the EML 274B though. I'm not sure if there'd be any sonic difference between this and a 5U4G.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello to everyone!

 I want to jump on board the good ship Woo Audio very soon, so thought I would start right here.

 I recently discovered Woo Audio from reading the Steve Hoffman Music Forums. I want to use the upcoming Beatles Remasters as an excuse to upgrade my headphone gear. Currently using Etymotic ER-4S/ER-4P headphones and HeadRoom Ultra Micro Amp.

 I read that Steve Hoffman uses the Sennheiser HD-600/Woo Audio 6, and when I inquired via private message he highly recommend all things Woo! I've seen a lot of other people talking about that particular combination here in these forums, along with variations that include the HD-650, HD-800, (other great headphones), WA2, WA6 SE, WA22.

 So now the Newbie questions:

 Having noticed the HD-600/WA6 as a popular combination, are there other combos that have become popular with Woo Audio owners?

Grados are very nice with the Woo WA6 also, as are all my high-end custom IEM.

 Is it generally true that one would most likely be happier (and lighter in cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with each step along the Woo Audio product line ... WA6 ... WA2 ... WA6 SE ... WA22 ... WA5 LE ... and the WES Gulp?

Yes.

 Could you safely recommend to someone new "just spend what you can afford, borrow, or steal" and then search for the matching headphones of your choice?

Any woo is a safe bet, but I liked the WA22 more than the WA6 and WA5. I missed hearing the WA6SE. You could get a used HD600 for $225-250 and enjoy it sooner than later. *add $30 for HD650 cable as an upgrade*

 Hit me with your best shot...

 And thanks!_

 

Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello to everyone!

 Having noticed the HD-600/WA6 as a popular combination, are there other combos that have become popular with Woo Audio owners?_

 

As Larry remarked, and I just recently found out, Grados seem to mesh very well with Woo amps.

  Quote:


 Is it generally true that one would most likely be happier (and lighter in cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with each step along the Woo Audio product line ... WA6 ... WA2 ... WA6 SE ... WA22 ... WA5 LE ... and the WES Gulp? 
 

The way I decided which Woo model to buy went something like this:

 First, I wanted a seperate power supply, to eliminate any transformer noise from getting anywhere near the signal.
 Second, I wanted an overkill power output, as Sennheisers are power hungry beasts.
 Third, I was only interested in single ended, not balanced.

 The first two criteria eliminate the WA6 and WA2, I didn't need balanced so the WA22 was also out, leaving the WA6SE and the WA5-LE.

 WA5-LE has half again as much output power, but a stock WA5-LE with Sophia rectifiers costs considerably more than a fully upgraded WA6SE, so I went the latter.


----------



## koven

Johnny Moondog, I have the WA6 with HD580 and HD650. Both sound magical when powered by the Woo... the synergy is pretty incredible. And I agree with HeadphoneAddict, sounds amazing w/ my Grado as well. All in all, it's worth every penny IMO. I'm sure you'll be VERY pleased with a WA6+HD600 combo. Should be a world of improvement from the Ultra Micro + ER4.


----------



## oricon82

Anyone tried HD800/HF2 with WA6se? Saw HPA's reply to Johnny's post that grado's in general are very nice with the wa6 so I guess the HF2's should mate nicely with the WA6se. Not quite sure with the HD800's thou. Any advice?

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oricon82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried HD800/HF2 with WA6se? Saw HPA's reply to Johnny's post that grado's in general are very nice with the wa6 so I guess the HF2's should mate nicely with the WA6se. Not quite sure with the HD800's thou. Any advice?

 Thanks in advance!_

 

I can attest to the WA6SE + HF-2 combo, in that I find it sounds very good. However I haven't tried them out of many amps, so I can't make any claims to it sounding better than xyz.

 Edit: You know, I wish there were some sort of "premium" driver tube choice for the WA6SE. I've got 3 different sets now - El Menco 6EW7s, Raytheon 6EW7s, and RCA 6DE7s, and its damn hard to tell the difference between them to figure out which I prefer. The Menco's might be a tad warmer, while the Raytheons might be a bit punchier, and the RCAs might be slightly narrower of soundstage but clearer, or it could all be in my head. With the time tuberolling takes, its difficult to tell. I want one set of tubes that I rationally know is "the best" to stick in there and forget about


----------



## Covenant

Just got a reply from Jack RE: my problems with 6FD7 tubes:

  Quote:


 The 6FD7’s amplification factor could be too large to use properly on the 6SE. However, it worked fine on the 6. I have not spent much time on this tube on the 6SE. 
 

He also replied regarding the warranty on the EML 5U4G Mesh rectifier that he sells:

  Quote:


 The quoted price for the EML 5U4G covers one-year warranty. 
 

He quoted me $280 shipped a few weeks ago.


----------



## CandlePower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can attest to the WA6SE + HF-2 combo, in that I find it sounds very good. However I haven't tried them out of many amps, so I can't make any claims to it sounding better than xyz.

 Edit: You know, I wish there were some sort of "premium" driver tube choice for the WA6SE. I've got 3 different sets now - El Menco 6EW7s, Raytheon 6EW7s, and RCA 6DE7s, and its damn hard to tell the difference between them to figure out which I prefer. The Menco's might be a tad warmer, while the Raytheons might be a bit punchier, and the RCAs might be slightly narrower of soundstage but clearer, or it could all be in my head. With the time tuberolling takes, its difficult to tell. I want one set of tubes that I rationally know is "the best" to stick in there and forget about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I bought a set of NOS Sylvania 6DE7's to see if there was a difference from the RCA's. It definitely was not a step down and seems like maybe . . . maybe a slight imrovement. My real belief is that there's not too much difference between the tubes and it has more to do with my learning how to appreciate the amp/phones combo.

 I've done quite a bit of tube rolling with power tubes and pre-amp tubes in guitar amps and some tubes make a big difference. For example, I've got a 50's long-plate mullard pre-amp tube that sounds very different from an RCA or the new production stuff. I'd say the NOS are clearly superior and the difference between various NOS tubes comes down to subjectivity. No best, just best for you.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CandlePower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've done quite a bit of tube rolling with power tubes and pre-amp tubes in guitar amps and some tubes make a big difference. For example, I've got a 50's long-plate mullard pre-amp tube that sounds very different from an RCA or the new production stuff. I'd say the NOS are clearly superior and the difference between various NOS tubes comes down to subjectivity. No best, just best for you._

 

Yeah, my last serious tube amp was an RSA Raptor, and rolling drive tubes in that thing made an immediate difference. Rolling drive tubes in the Woo seems to be much more subtle.

 So far the Raytheon big-bottle 6EW7s are my favourites.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I have received quotes from Jack Woo/Woo audio, Sue/Sophia Electric and Jac/JacMusic. SP274B and EML274B are quoted with 12 months warranty and price is relatively close.

 I am in dilemma to choose the right replacement tube and I can only afford either one. BTW I do have a spare SP274B in use now. Don't know much about EML though other than knowing the difference in voltage....

 Please guide me.


----------



## indydieselnut

As long as we finish working out details, my EML 5U4G is going to another Woo owner. In my opinion, the EML is a VERY good choice in the 6SE. I don't have gobs of hours of experience with it, but the overall build quality seems a step above the Princess and I don't feel it gives up anything on the sonics. 

 Alas, I'm going to be parting company with you guys for a while. I received a solid offer on my WA6SE and sold it a few weeks ago. I could very well live to regret it but I needed to lessen my financial commitment to headphone listening for a while. 

 The Woo owner fraternity is one of the most helpful on head-fi!


----------



## dannie01

indydieselnut, you're always welcome back here without owning an Woo amp since you've contributing a lot here, indeed. Also, your valuable comment is good to hear all the time. Hope your financial stress can relieve soon. 

 And I've swapped a pair of Raytheon 6EW7 for 3 days and found it sound softer than the RCA 6FD7, come with more micro detail in highs, comfortable listening than the RCA, more open, soundstage is a bit wider. The mid is mild and the bass is less punch or can I say dynamic is a bit less than 6FD7. Seems every aspect of the 6EW7 is slightly better than the 6FD7 but the impactful bass. Also, found that when using with the 6EW7, the WA6SE is not as hot as using the 6FD7, probably it drawn lesser current so it's not that hot than using with the 6FD7.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_indydieselnut, you're always welcome back here without owning an Woo amp since you've contributing a lot here, indeed. Also, your valuable comment is good to hear all the time._

 

Thanks buddy! Having kids is certainly rewarding but no one said that it was free


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Thanks for the replies to my inquiry about Woo+headphone synergy.

 I have to admit I'm tempted to just put my order in, but it's a little nerve racking to buy a piece of gear without hearing it first!

 I wonder... have most people here purchased a Woo AFTER hearing their particular model in person? Or just pulled the trigger based on other's feedback?

 I just saw the announcement that Woo Audio will be attending the Gear For The Ear in Denver next month. I live in San Francisco, but my brother lives in Colorado, so I could probably talk myself into attending the event for a day on route to visit with the bro.

 Is anyone aware of any upcoming events in California where I'd have the opportunity to hear Woo Audio in person?

 I just sent an inquiry to Woo Audio as well...

 Thanks again!


----------



## koven

^ If you're ever in San Jose, you're welcome to come over and try my WA6 w/ Sophia, if I'm free. 

 I bought mine without hearing it, purely based on all the praise here... and I'm glad I did, worth every penny IMO.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Thanks for the offer!

 I'll definitely keep that in mind...


----------



## Speederlander

Got my amp, thought I would post some pics:


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far the Raytheon big-bottle 6EW7s are my favourites._

 

x2. So its def not placebo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I also prefer the Raytheon fat bottle 6ew7 to my RCA fat 6ew7, which is warmer but less detailed. I'm using the amp with a Mullard GZ34, probably a step down compared to the 274B, but good enough for me for a lot less dough.

 Nice pics Speedlander, enjoy the new amp.
 The WA6 + HD800 combo is fantastic


----------



## koven

Nice pics Speederlander 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Covenant and musicmind, where did you guys purchase the Raytheon 6EW7's? I'm interested in trying it.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Covenant and musicmind, where did you guys purchase the Raytheon 6EW7's? I'm interested in trying it._

 

Mine were stock tubes. I bought two sets with the amp, El Menco 6EW7s and Raytheon 6EW7s.


----------



## Speederlander

Does Jack make adapters to take the 6DE7 drivers to 6SN7's? Just curious.


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice pics Speederlander 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Covenant and musicmind, where did you guys purchase the Raytheon 6EW7's? I'm interested in trying it._

 

Hi Koven

 I got mine from a US-based head-fier earlier this year. I havent seen any come up on ebay at all. Perhaps Woo audio or one of the reputable tube sellers in USA can source a pair of Raytheon 6ew7 for you.


----------



## koven

Thanks I will ask Jack.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Speederlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Jack make adapters to take the 6DE7 drivers to 6SN7's? Just curious._

 

hi, do you mean an adapter to use 6sn7 on the wa6? if so, i believe jack
 sells them now. don't know what he charges though.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Koven

 I got mine from a US-based head-fier earlier this year. I havent seen any come up on ebay at all. Perhaps Woo audio or one of the reputable tube sellers in USA can source a pair of Raytheon 6ew7 for you._

 

hi a, i hope all is well in your part of the world. yeah, ebay is not the best
 source to buy the 6ew7 now. they are sweet tubes and should last years
 if treated right. but the 6sn7 is even sweeter with some depth in the music
 and a larger sound-scape. better tonal balance and a refined/delicate mid
 and highs on the wa6.


----------



## Speederlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, do you mean an adapter to use 6sn7 on the wa6? if so, i believe jack
 sells them now. don't know what he charges though._

 

Hi, yup. That's what I mean. Already e-mailed him. Just waiting for a reply.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Speederlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, yup. That's what I mean. Already e-mailed him. Just waiting for a reply._

 

I emailed him last week about the adapter. So far I haven't heard anything


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi a, i hope all is well in your part of the world. yeah, ebay is not the best
 source to buy the 6ew7 now. they are sweet tubes and should last years
 if treated right. but the 6sn7 is even sweeter with some depth in the music
 and a larger sound-scape. better tonal balance and a refined/delicate mid
 and highs on the wa6._

 

Hi Takezo, all is good down here thanks except for District 9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you are keeping well.
 Nice to see Jack is making this adaptor available, thanks largely to your tube-rolling experiements.

 Do you find the 6sn7 to offer noticably improved performance over the 6gu7 or 6fq7 (which I have read are based on the 6sn7 tube) in any areas?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Do you find the 6sn7 to offer noticably improved performance over the 6gu7 or 6fq7 (which I have read are based on the 6sn7 tube) in any areas?_

 

hi a, initially i really thought the noval based 6gu7/6cg7/6fq7 were on par with
 the 6ns7 family, due to their similarities electrically, but after having tube-rolled
 for the past year on the wa6 and wa6SE, i'm clearly in the 6sn7 camp. on my
 set-up the 6sn7 offers a wider sound-scape, more refined tonal balance and
 transparency on a higher level than the 9-pin bottles. but they are about 1/5
 the price of a NOS 6sn7 tube and very close in SQ as well. but the 7n7 takes
 the cake for me. they are on par with the best of the 6sn7, except the exotic
 ones i haven't tried, at 1/4 the price. the 7n7 needs a different adapter than
 the ones for the 6sn7 due to difference in pin layout.


----------



## musicmind

Thanks for your valuable comments Takezo, looks like my driver tuberolling is far from finished


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your valuable comments Takezo, looks like my driver tuberolling is far from finished 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm just hoping I'll find a Sylvania 6FD7 that works, the brief time I got to listen to my last pair sounded beautiful. I should have a pair of RCA 6EW7 to try soon too


----------



## musicmind

Covenant, I've only tried the RCA thin bottle 6fd7 which worked quite well, no unwanted noise (I have the WA6 though, not the WA6SE like yourself). The increased gain as others have commented, was noticeable. However the detail and more open sound of the 6ew7 (the Raytheon in particular) was much more to my liking with the music I listen to. For bass punch and more dynamics, the 6fd7 is nice, but the Tungsol 6de7 edges out the RCA 6fd7 in the tight impactful bass it provides with my HD650.

 I'm guessing the RCA 6ew7 will sound a bit warmer than your Sylvania.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Covenant, I've only tried the RCA thin bottle 6fd7 which worked quite well, no unwanted noise (I have the WA6 though, not the WA6SE like yourself). The increased gain as others have commented, was noticeable. However the detail and more open sound of the 6ew7 (the Raytheon in particular) was much more to my liking with the music I listen to. For bass punch and more dynamics, the 6fd7 is nice, but the Tungsol 6de7 edges out the RCA 6fd7 in the tight impactful bass it provides with my HD650.

 I'm guessing the RCA 6ew7 will sound a bit warmer than your Sylvania._

 

Openness with detail and dynamics are the traits I'm predominantly looking for at the moment. I had a set of fat-bottle Sylvania 6FD7s that seemed to be very good at this, but the set developed cracking noises and had to be returned.

 I've got some small bottle RCA 6DE7's in at the moment which sound very nice, too. But they're slightly noisy.


----------



## koven

Is the RCA 6EW7 a good upgrade from the stock 6ED7's? What are some other options?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the RCA 6EW7 a good upgrade from the stock 6ED7's? What are some other options?_

 

I think it depends a fair bit on what headphones you use. Atm I have the small-bottle RCA 6DE7s in and actually prefer them with the HF-2, as the slightly decreased soundstage and increased dynamics seem to synergise well with them.


----------



## musicmind

@koven : Like Covenant said, "upgrade" perhaps isnt the best way to describe it, but the 6ew7 tube family def have a different presentation than the 6de7, notably an increased sense of openness/air/soundstage to the sound perhaps at the expense of a bit less energy and dynamism to the music. Depending on what kind of sound you like and what headphone you are using, you may prefer the 6ew7 over the 6de7, or vice versa. Luckily these tubes are pretty cheap, so its easy to try out a few and see which one best suits your tastes. The RCA 6ew7 is a noticeably warmer than the Raytheon 6ew7. I think the Sylvania 6ew7 is also a bit leaner than the RCA, but may be a better all-rounder. 

 @Covenant : I'm suprised to hear the 6de7 is giving you noise problems too. I dont have the WA6SE so I cant really comment. All the tubes I've used in my profile with the WA6 have been dead quiet, even when I tried my SA6 IEM. From what I've read, the WA6SE does apply a higher voltage to the driver tubes compared to the WA6, so that may be a factor. The Woo amps are generally known to be extremely quiet.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Covenant : I'm suprised to hear the 6de7 is giving you noise problems too. I dont have the WA6SE so I cant really comment. All the tubes I've used in my profile with the WA6 have been dead quiet, even when I tried my SA6 IEM. From what I've read, the WA6SE does apply a higher voltage to the driver tubes compared to the WA6, so that may be a factor. The Woo amps are generally known to be extremely quiet._

 

The issues I had with the 6DE7 weren't noise, they were sharp cracking sounds through the headphones. Music would play for a while, and then CRACK! in one ear or the other. The seller retested them and apparently couldn't find any problems, but other WA6SE users here have reported using that tube type without issues, so no idea what the story was there.

 I might have another set coming from a former WA6SE owner, so I'll try those and see if they exhibit the same problem.


----------



## koven

thanks guys, will give the rca 6ew7's a shot since they're cheap


----------



## Covenant

That's the beauty of tuberolling a WA6/SE. ALL the drive tubes are cheap, and with the rectifier you only have the two main options, Sophia or EML.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the beauty of tuberolling a WA6/SE. ALL the drive tubes are cheap, and with the rectifier you only have the two main options, Sophia or EML._

 

I still can't decide which replacement to procure for my RIP Sophia. Should I move on with a EML274B Mesh Plates since I still have my second Sophia now...?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still can't decide which replacement to procure for my RIP Sophia. Should I move on with a EML274B Mesh Plates since I still have my second Sophia now...?_

 

Well I'm ordering one from Jack, an EML 5U4G Mesh. I like the fact that it comes with a 1yr warranty, it bespeaks a manufacturer thats confident in their build quality.


----------



## pedalhead

I'll soon be joining the fold. Have just ordered a WA22 with upgraded tubes. Hoping that it'll be a match made in heaven with my balanced HD800s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi a, initially i really thought the noval based 6gu7/6cg7/6fq7 were on par with
 the 6ns7 family, due to their similarities electrically, but after having tube-rolled
 for the past year on the wa6 and wa6SE, i'm clearly in the 6sn7 camp. on my
 set-up the 6sn7 offers a wider sound-scape, more refined tonal balance and
 transparency on a higher level than the 9-pin bottles. but they are about 1/5
 the price of a NOS 6sn7 tube and very close in SQ as well. but the 7n7 takes
 the cake for me. they are on par with the best of the 6sn7, except the exotic
 ones i haven't tried, at 1/4 the price. the 7n7 needs a different adapter than
 the ones for the 6sn7 due to difference in pin layout._

 

This sounds interesting. Care to post a pic of your WA6 with those tubes in it?


----------



## jc9394

Sad night last night, my Sofia is not glowing after 30 minutes I turned on my WA6. It only have around 300 hours on it. Is it possible a defective one?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sad night last night, my Sofia is not glowing after 30 minutes I turned on my WA6. It only have around 300 hours on it. Is it possible a defective one?_

 

Sad to hear that. Mine died 2 weeks ago. So the count is 2 dead Sophia Princess in within a month period.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sad to hear that. Mine died 2 weeks ago. So the count is 2 dead Sophia Princess in within a month period._

 

When did you receive your? I received my around mid June, I wonder if it is a bad batch.

 Now the question is, should I get another Sofia with 1 year warranty for 190 or EML 274B for 200? I really don't like the stock, it is a big difference coming from Sofia.

 I may wait too as I just ordered JH13Pro but I do want to use my WA with it.


----------



## jc9394

OutdoorXplorer, when your Sofia die, did it makes a noise or just not glowing anymore? Mines' just stop glowing and no more music.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did you receive your? I received my around mid June, I wonder if it is a bad batch.

 Now the question is, should I get another Sofia with 1 year warranty for 190 or EML 274B for 200? I really don't like the stock, it is a big difference coming from Sofia.

 I may wait too as I just ordered JH13Pro but I do want to use my WA with it._

 

No more Sophia Electric tubes for now. EML 5U4G mesh and EML 274B mesh are on my wishlist. 

 I have not come across any short life EML tubes so far and hope that would be a right choice to be made.


----------



## jc9394

Same here, leaning toward EML 274B mesh. It is only 10-20 more but with 1 years warranty. Not sure the why Sofia offer 30 days and 1 years warranty, maybe they know it does not last that long?


----------



## Rob N

I have a pair of EML 5U4G meshplates in my Woo WA5-LE and I'm hoping that they last longer than the Sophias appear to


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My Sophia was new Sept 2008 and is still working great after a year of use.


----------



## atbglenn

The fact that at least 2 Sophia's failed after a couple of months use, and that it seems common that they darken quickly, I'm staying away. Poor QC I would imagine. They need to up their warranty a bit...


----------



## jc9394

I agree with poor QC and really wonder the purpose of offer two different warranty on same product. I probably go with EML 274B instead.


----------



## koven

Anyone have any comments on the Raptor vs WA6? Is it a pretty significant upgrade or more of a side-grade?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This sounds interesting. Care to post a pic of your WA6 with those tubes in it?_

 

i don't have any pics but will work on them in the near future to share.
 i've been working on the 2c51/5670/6385/396A to work on the wa6SE and
 i think i've finally got them figured out. they sound absolutely gorgeous and
 spacious on the wa6 the way it is without any mods and now i've got them
 to sound just as good on the wa6SE with some resistors here and there in
 the adapter itself.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with poor QC and really wonder the purpose of offer two different on same product. I probably go with EML 274B instead._

 

the EML 274B use to have quality control issues as well, but supposedly
 was addressed couple of years back. so far so good... i have both the 
 sophia and eml for over a year i believe and nothing catastrophic yet...
 the sophia's strength is in the micro and macro details in the bass and the
 mids... the eml's strength is in the micro/macro details in the mids and the
 highs. btw, the eml and grado gs1k does something special in the highs
 and ambiance that i haven't found in any other combo.


----------



## jc9394

maybe just a bad batch that Jack received from Sofia electrics.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_maybe just a bad batch that Jack received from Sofia electrics._

 

Out of the Sophia's that failed, has anyone had them replaced free of charge?


----------



## jc9394

I emailed Jack this morning but still waiting for him to reply.


----------



## koven

^ I've noticed he's slow and selective in responding.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ I've noticed he's slow and selective in responding._

 

I hear ya. I emailed him almost 2 weeks ago about 6SN7 adapters. I haven't heard anything yet. It's so unlike him not to respond...


----------



## Toad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear ya. I emailed him almost 2 weeks ago about 6SN7 adapters. I haven't heard anything yet. It's so unlike him not to respond..._

 

I've had the same problem. Any questions I've asked about adapters I either get told they don't make them anymore or the message goes unanswered. If you don't get a reply within a few days, you're probably not going to get one at all, I've pretty much given up my hope on getting a set of adapters. Maybe we can get a bunch of people together who want an adapter set made up so that it would actually be worth his while to make them.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Toad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had the same problem. Any questions I've asked about adapters I either get told they don't make them anymore or the message goes unanswered. If you don't get a reply within a few days, you're probably not going to get one at all, I've pretty much given up my hope on getting a set of adapters. Maybe we can get a bunch of people together who want an adapter set made up so that it would actually be worth his while to make them._

 

I wouldn't have a problem if I was told they don't make them anymore. But not to respond at all, I have a problem with that. I'm a customer who's purchased products from him in the past. Not some knuckle head asking dumb questions all the time. ( not that anyone here is) He's always been very responsive to questions I've had in the past. Maybe he's out of town? Who knows. I hope this isn't becoming the norm. There are too many companies out there who don't give a crap about their customers. I just hope Woo isn't becoming one of those... 

 Glenn


----------



## Toad

I totally agree with you, atbglenn. I know Jack has an account here (WooAudio), though I'm not sure how frequently he checks it, maybe try sending him a PM. I'd love to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's away, but I feel he just doesn't want to waste his time building adapters when he could be using that time to build amps, which is perfectly logical and ok with me, but a response telling you that would be nice.


----------



## takezo

yeah, jack is getting worse with the email responses... another symptom of success
 without good planning, maybe... "sometimes he answers, sometimes he doesn't" is a
 recipe for disgruntled potential customers in my book.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with poor QC and really wonder the purpose of offer two different warranty on same product. I probably go with EML 274B instead._

 

Remember EML make a 5U4G as well, which Jack reccomends as an alternative for the Princess 247B. I'm not sure what the differences between an EML 274B and 5U4G are, but when asked about it Jack advocated the latter.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have any comments on the Raptor vs WA6? Is it a pretty significant upgrade or more of a side-grade?_

 

More of a downgrade, IMO. But then I owned a Raptor some years back and they have apparently been improved since then.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of the Sophia's that failed, has anyone had them replaced free of charge?_

 

I have. I was *just* inside my 30 day warranty period. Jack also agreed to ship me a replacement direct from his stock rather than waiting the 2-3 weeks for Sophia to send one, as I needed one for an upcoming meet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't have a problem if I was told they don't make them anymore. But not to respond at all, I have a problem with that. I'm a customer who's purchased products from him in the past. Not some knuckle head asking dumb questions all the time. ( not that anyone here is) He's always been very responsive to questions I've had in the past. Maybe he's out of town? Who knows. I hope this isn't becoming the norm. There are too many companies out there who don't give a crap about their customers. I just hope Woo isn't becoming one of those... 

 Glenn_

 

So do I. I actually semi-confronted him about that. I'd been waiting a week for a reply to a question I asked via email, and followed up with a second email before getting a 2-line reply. I replied thanking him for responding, but asking why his answers were getting fewer and further between. He responded:

 "Jason,

 Sorry if my reply is not clear. As you might know, we have 2 new models released. They take up tremendous amount of time in the making and revisioning. Please don't feel discourage to send notes or share thoughts. I would love to hear feedback.

 Have a great day,

 Jack"

 Seems like he's just very busy with the WA22 and WES.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of the Sophia's that failed, has anyone had them replaced free of charge?_

 

Mine failed in 3 months and was offered a small discount on replacement.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine failed in 3 months and was offered a small discount on replacement._

 

WOW that really stinks. This is a very expensive tube and should come with a minimum of a 90 day replacement warranty. And since it seems like a QC issue, Sophia should make exceptions. These tubes should last for a couple of years minimum for the price they're asking..


----------



## omoanya

Im receiving a new WA6SE tomorrow w/ Sophia so i'll be sure to report if i have any problems/


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im receiving a new WA6SE tomorrow w/ Sophia so i'll be sure to report if i have any problems/_

 

Congrats and welcome to the team


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im receiving a new WA6SE tomorrow w/ Sophia so i'll be sure to report if i have any problems/_

 

Congrats.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW that really stinks. This is a very expensive tube and should come with a minimum of a 90 day replacement warranty. And since it seems like a QC issue, Sophia should make exceptions. These tubes should last for a couple of years minimum for the price they're asking.._

 

This is the reply I received from Sophia Electric when I advised on the RIP 274B

_"The lifespan of the 274B rectifiers varies dramatically.

 Each rectifier has different lifespan because they are hand made.
 The rectifier is very sensitive to the circuit. Different circuit has different lifespan. 
 User’s habit is also very important. Some users turn off and on very frequently. This is not good for the tube.
 Do not keep the amplifier on for more than 6 hours per session. You can turn off the amplifier for 20 – 30 minutes to let the tube cool off, then start a new session."_

 Nothing was mentioned in regards to the lifespan in terms of hours.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the reply I received from Sophia Electric when I advised on the RIP 274B

"The lifespan of the 274B rectifiers varies dramatically.

 Each rectifier has different lifespan because they are hand made.
 The rectifier is very sensitive to the circuit. Different circuit has different lifespan. 
 User’s habit is also very important. Some users turn off and on very frequently. This is not good for the tube.
 Do not keep the amplifier on for more than 6 hours per session. You can turn off the amplifier for 20 – 30 minutes to let the tube cool off, then start a new session."

 Nothing was mentioned in regards to the lifespan in terms of hours._

 

I guess I'll just stick with my inexpensive Mullard CV2748 (GZ30) It sounds good to me, and it was cheap. I purchased 2 of them for less than $30 for the pair. So far the first one has about 500-600 hours on it with no problems. Since I never heard the Sophia (I'm sure it sounds great) I'm wondering how much better it is over the Mullards I'm using. $150 is a lot of money, especially when there might be reliability issues. I'm not willing to take a chance right now...


----------



## CandlePower

The golden era of the tube was pre solid-state electronics. Back when Mullard and the rest were cooking, they had it down pat. A lot of them had to produce to military specs, so quality was great.

 Now, current production apparently can't replicate, inexpensively, what they turned out in the past. I used to know more about this but I've forgotten most of it. I know that some tube sellers stopped offering certain current production tubes that are commonly used in guitar amps because there were so many being returned.

 A $250 dollar tube that lasts for 500 hours essentially costs fifty cents per hour to operate. 

 If I was going to upgrade my rectifier, I'd likely buy an NOS Mullard.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine failed in 3 months and was offered a small discount on replacement._

 

At least Jack offer you some discount, he replied and tell me he have another EML 5U4G Mesh plate in stock and ready to ship.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing was mentioned in regards to the lifespan in terms of hours._

 

He did mention from his last email.

 "This tube should last at least 2000 hours"


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least Jack offer you some discount, he replied and tell me he have another EML 5U4G Mesh plate in stock and ready to ship._

 

Should we hit the panic button..... ? BTW are u considering the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate?

 To be fair to Jack, he is just a reseller of such tube and providing the similar warranty per Sophia Electric. It could be a bad batch and in fact the manufacturer should consider replacing the affected stocks. The Princess didn't come cheap and this may prevent future Woo Audio owners in paying extra for such inferior upgrade.


----------



## dannie01

2000 hrs is not even good enough lifespan for a tube with that high price. For example, you listen 5 hrs o music daily and you'll have only 400 days, something similar 1 year and a bit more of it's life, that's it.

 Edit. The above statement is only for Sophia not Jack of Woo Audio as Woo is only a reseller and agree with OutdoorXplorer Sophia Electric should replace all defected tubes.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He did mention from his last email.

 "This tube should last at least 2000 hours"_

 

Mine was hardly 600 hours and warranty expired on the 31st day of purchase.
 So no more SP replacement for now, the second tube I am using will be the final SP I guess.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2000 hrs is not even good enough lifespan for a tube with that high price. For example, you listen 5 hrs o music daily and you'll have only 400 days, something similar 1 year and a bit more of it's life, that's it._

 

I support the mathematical explanation and I am consider stocking an EML as spare soon.


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"This tube should last at least 2000 hours"_

 

From the FAQ on the Woo website:

_"2. How long do vaccuum tubes last?

 Vacuum tubes used in our products last between 5000 - 9000 hours depending on where they are used. Drive tubes (the smaller tubes) are generally last up to 9000 hours, and power output tubes (the larger tubes in our amplifiers) about 5000 hours. They do not usually completely fail after this time, but gradually deteriorate as the cathode begins to loose its coating and cannot emit electronics at the maximum rate. The sound usually becomes less focused and 2D like lacking HF response." _

 As CandlePower suggests, some of the newer tube makers simply don't have the process down if they can't get a rectifier to last at least several thousand hours. Not to mention that some of them charge a premium price for their products. NOS is a good low-cost alternative, especially when a lot of these NOS tubes have withstood the test of time, both in sound quality _AND_ reliability.


----------



## dannie01

I would suggest to pay more for the one year warranty to have a longer secure period. The EML 5U4G is also in my wish list for a try.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would suggest to pay more for the one year warranty to have a longer secure period. The EML 5U4G is also in my wish list for a try._

 

Even with a year warranty and such premium price tube fails on the 13th month... Does it worth it? Perhaps I should agree with NOS alternative.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even with a year warranty and such premium price tube fails on the 13th month... Does it worth it? Perhaps I should agree with NOS alternative._

 

Agree with the NOS alternative also, for the 13 months of use then turn fails of the premium price tube, I would only say you're really bad luck.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should be hit the panic button..... ? BTW are u considering the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate?

 To be fair to Jack, he is just a reseller of such tube and providing the similar warranty per Sophia Electric. It could be a bad batch and in fact the manufacturer should consider replacing the affected stocks. The Princess didn't come cheap and this may prevent future Woo Audio owners in paying extra for such inferior upgrade._

 

Totally agree, I'm not blaming on Jack. I asked him if he can bring up the issue to Sofia Electric. I'm considering both EML 274B and 5U4G Mesh plate, they both offer 1 year warranty. I just don't like the fact that Sofia offer a 1 year warranty but you have to pay an additional $50 for it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would suggest to pay more for the one year warranty to have a longer secure period. The EML 5U4G is also in my wish list for a try._

 

If I pay the warranty, I rather get the EML 274B as it only cost another $15 shipped and it have 1 year warranty. I may consider getting both EML 274B and 5U4G mesh plate.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It looks like Sophia Electric gonna loose few customers and EML is gaining more popularity. One man failure is another man's gain....


----------



## atbglenn

It's not Jack's fault that the Sophia Princess is failing prematurely. He should however, not offer them anymore if they continue to be unreliable....


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like Sophia Electric gonna loose few customers and EML is gaining more popularity. One man failure is another man's gain...._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not Jack's fault that the Sophia Princess is failing prematurely. He should however, not offer them anymore if they continue to be unreliable...._

 

Totally agree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I pay the warranty, I rather get the EML 274B as it only cost another $15 shipped and it have 1 year warranty. I may consider getting both EML 274B and 5U4G mesh plate._

 

Yeah jc, I would get them both the EML 274B and 5U4G if I have the money.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah jc, I would get them both the EML 274B and 5U4G if I have the money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have to sell some of my headphones to fund this, not something I like to do. But listening without Sofia is painful and I do not have a good backup tube. The first time I listen to the stock tube after I listening to the Sofia for the last few months, the first thing I noticed is where is the soundstage and where the liquid mids I familiar with. 

 Listening to Jacky Cheung concert last night with the Woo is not I have remembered.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would get them both the EML 274B and 5U4G if I have the money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will stock EML 5U4G when I have the money....


----------



## jc9394

Hopefully soon for me, once I sold my ESW10, I'm getting both or at least one. Not sure which one yet, it seems like not a lot of people have experience with 5U4G mesh palte yet.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to sell some of my headphones to fund this, not something I like to do. But listening without Sofia is painful and I do not have a good backup tube. The first time I listen to the stock tube after I listening to the Sofia for the last few months, the first thing I noticed is where is the soundstage and where the liquid mids I familiar with. 

 Listening to Jacky Cheung concert last night with the Woo is not I have remembered._

 

Now worrying the lifespan of my Sophia, it sings close to 400 hrs now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jacky Cheung is my only beloved local singer, love his songs most, good to know you too.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will stock EML 5U4G when I have the money.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, the EML 5U4G in priority.


----------



## h.rav

EML 274B has better build than SP 274B, at least mine is much better. EML 274B is a true mesh plate while the SP isn't. Oh and EML tube comes with this beautiful box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/emi...s-274b-354055/


----------



## atbglenn

Looks much nicer and better built than the Sophia. Hopefully the glass won't darken over time like the Sophia


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EML 274B has better build than SP 274B, at least mine is much better. EML 274B is a true mesh plate while the SP isn't. Oh and EML tube comes with this beautiful box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/emi...s-274b-354055/_

 

Very nice


----------



## koven

Anyone have a pic of the EML's glow, in the dark?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have a pic of the EML's glow, in the dark?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/emi...s-274b-354055/

 If you follow the link above, there is one good picture of it glowing, but not in the dark unfortunately


----------



## indydieselnut

Guys, the EML 5U4G Mesh in my WA6SE was breathtaking glowing in the dark. The larger plate and mesh than the SP made it truly beautiful in the dark. I still have the tube and am contemplating ordering a WA6 just so I have an amp to stick it in!! I'll wait a bit...

 Sorry I don't have pictures. The EML picture on their site doesn't do it justice because it's from the side. It makes it look like you don't see the plates lit up...which you do. It's so beautiful if I DO order the WA6 I'm going to ask Jack to clock the tube socket so that it's pointing forward
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On my WA6SE I actually re-oriented the position of the amp so that I could see the plates glowing from my listening position!! I know...I'm a bit of a nut!


----------



## Toad

I have to say I'm a bit surprised to hear the Sophia Princess 274b is dying on people early. I've had mine for over a year now and have yet to experience any problems with it at all. Not that I think it makes any difference, but I bought mine directly from Sophia Electric and not from Jack. At the time Woo Audio was selling it for more than Sophia Electric was selling it for so to buy it from Jack just made no sense. I guess with all these bad reviews though, I'll have to look into get the EML 5u4g


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I don't have pictures. The EML picture on their site doesn't do it justice because it's from the side. It makes it look like you don't see the plates lit up...which you do._

 

That's good to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have an EML 5U4G Mesh and a pair of Sylvania 6FD7s on order from Jack, I'll report back when they arrive.


----------



## koven

^ Definitely good to know.. I'm a sucker for a nice glow


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's good to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have an EML 5U4G Mesh and a pair of Sylvania 6FD7s on order from Jack, I'll report back when they arrive._

 

How much does Jack charge for the EML 5U4G?


----------



## h.rav

^ $250 shipped.


----------



## atbglenn

Thanks a bunch h.rav


----------



## h.rav

You're welcome


----------



## jc9394

Good news, Jack stressed the recent Sofia issues to Sofia Electric and told me to send my broken tube to them to do further testing to see is in fact is defective or not.


----------



## indydieselnut

At least in the US it's $235 shipped for a 5u4G directly from the EML distributor. I believe it's George Lenz. I'm all for supporting Jack, but I think he's reselling them as more of a service than a profit center for himself.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news, Jack stressed the recent Sofia issues to Sofia Electric and told me to send my broken tube to them to do further testing to see is in fact is defective or not._

 

To send the tube to Jack or Sophia Electric?


----------



## pedalhead

I'm a tube dummy here, trying to work out which rectifier to get for my WA22 that's on order. I originally specified (and paid for) a Sophia Princess, but reading about all these failures, now I'm not so sure that was the right move. Jack has quoted $280 for an EML 5U4G-Mesh (shipped to the UK), which is reasonable considering it's coming from the USA, but I can get one cheaper from Germany. I see that EML also have a 274B-Mesh tube, is this interchangeable with the 5U4G-Mesh in the WA22? Is one better, or more suited to the WA22, than the other? Cheers guys.


----------



## Rob N

The EML tubes seem to have better reliability than the Sophia's


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To send the tube to Jack or Sophia Electric?_

 

Sophia electric.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sophia electric._

 

Is there any references to be included.

 I received an outright rejection from Sophia Electric earlier..


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any references to be included.

 I received an outright rejection from Sophia Electric earlier.._

 

No, I received an email from Jack to told me to send it to them. I will print out the email Jack sent me along with the failed tube.


----------



## jc9394

I emailed to Tube USA about the difference between 274B and 5U4G to use with Woo Audio 6. George recommended 274B due to less voltage drop but Jack recommended the 5U4G. I'm really confused now on which one to get.


----------



## dannie01

What I've missed in just one day, the EML tube looks really awesome.

 jc & OutdoorXplorer, kindly let us know what's your decision on EML 274B or 5U4G. Actually, I want to know.


----------



## jc9394

I probably go with 5U4G, it is what Jack recommended and he designed his amps.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I probably go with 5U4G, it is what Jack recommended and he designed his amps._

 

That was my logic. When I asked about them I was asking about the EML 274B, and he could have easily just said "Yeah that'll work, it costs xyz". Instead he phrased it as "Yes we do stock the EML tubes, I would recommend the 5U4G Mesh". So perhaps there is a beneficial difference, given the amp's circuit? The amp was designed around the 5U4G after all, which the 274B is a drop-in replacement for.


----------



## pedalhead

Yeah, I've decided to go with the EML 5U4G mesh too.


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I've decided to go with the EML 5U4G mesh too._

 

I have a pair of SP 300b and 274b that I bought with the WA5-LE. However, I have been very curious about the EML tubes. I am temped to get a pair of EML 300b and 5u4g mesh tubes.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am temped to get a pair of EML 300b and 5u4g mesh tubes._

 

Do it, if only to post photos of the WA5-LE glowing to make us all envious all over again


----------



## pedalhead

If this thread is anything to go by, I think I'll buy some shares in EML first


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If this thread is anything to go by, I think I'll buy some shares in EML first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your Avatar reminds me of me. Been there, done that more than once.


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your Avatar reminds me of me. Been there, done that more than once. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

On a weekly basis, my friend


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your Avatar reminds me of me. Been there, done that more than once. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X2, more than my wife likes...


----------



## pedalhead

Mountain biking is one of the few hobbies I know of that's more expensive than head fi


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mountain biking is one of the few hobbies I know of that's more expensive than head fi _

 

I hear ya brother. I built a custom Foes back in the mid 90's cost me around $4000 in parts. I can't even imagine what it cost today.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well.... I finally did it. I ordered the WA22. Am I in the club now??


----------



## h.rav

Not yet, not until you receive it. Just kidding. Welcome!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well.... I finally did it. I ordered the WA22. Am I in the club now??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Welcome to the club. I'll trade you my WA6 if you like


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club. I'll trade you my WA6 if you like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sure! Just don't forget to stuff a bunch of hundred dollar bills in the package too!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure! Just don't forget to stuff a bunch of hundred dollar bills in the package too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How many hundreds did you need so that I can get my WA6 packed up and wait to receive your WA22?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hundreds did you need so that I can get my WA6 packed up and wait to receive your WA22?_

 

Hey Larry, I asked first!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Larry, I asked first! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dang.


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do it, if only to post photos of the WA5-LE glowing to make us all envious all over again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe.


----------



## jamato8

I have been using my JH13's with the Woo 6. The sound is excellent. Very dynamic, open and transparent.


----------



## the_equalizer

Well, I finally couldn't help it anymore and, after a couple of months of dreaming about it, I just went ahead and ordered a silver WA 6 with the PDPS mod... I can still hear my poor wallet screaming...

 Could someone tell me how to cope with the 1 month limbo ahead of me until I get the amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers!


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well.... I finally did it. I ordered the WA22. Am I in the club now??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I finally couldn't help it anymore and, after a couple of months of dreaming about it, I just went ahead and ordered a silver WA 6 with the PDPS mod... I can still hear my poor wallet screaming...

 Could someone tell me how to cope with the 1 month limbo ahead of me until I get the amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers!_

 

Welcome to the club.


----------



## hawkhead

Am I the only one ?

 Testing a new DAC I took out the Sophia (which I've had for a few months) and put back the Philips 5R4GYB:

 I actually like the latter a lot more - extended bass, more clarity, better PRAT - it's as if a veil was lifted


----------



## Covenant

I just noticed something odd. Do you guys hear a reduction in SQ when two headphones are plugged in at once? I just got given a HD800 for a loan by one of the local head-fi'ers, and was switching between them and the HF-2, plugged into the high and low impedance jacks.

 At one point I unplugged the HF-2, and started listening exclusively to the HD800, and noticed that it somehow sounded better than before. So while the music was playing, I replugged the HF-2, and noticed that sound out of the HD800 immediately grew flatter and less involving.

 Have other WA6/SE owners found the same?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I finally couldn't help it anymore and, after a couple of months of dreaming about it, I just went ahead and ordered a silver WA 6 with the PDPS mod... I can still hear my poor wallet screaming...

 Could someone tell me how to cope with the 1 month limbo ahead of me until I get the amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 cheers!_

 

Think of it this way... as soon as you get your amp, your credit card bill will need to be paid off! The fun never stops, huh?


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club._

 

Thanks!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think of it this way... as soon as you get your amp, your credit card bill will need to be paid off! The fun never stops, huh?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're quite right. Now I've started thinking that since I've bought a nice amp and nice phones, I therefore need a nice DAC... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers!


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just noticed something odd. Do you guys hear a reduction in SQ when two headphones are plugged in at once? I just got given a HD800 for a loan by one of the local head-fi'ers, and was switching between them and the HF-2, plugged into the high and low impedance jacks.

 At one point I unplugged the HF-2, and started listening exclusively to the HD800, and noticed that it somehow sounded better than before. So while the music was playing, I replugged the HF-2, and noticed that sound out of the HD800 immediately grew flatter and less involving.

 Have other WA6/SE owners found the same?_

 

When two phones are plugged in at the same time to the 6SE, there is a reduction in volume level to both phones, but I have not noticed any degradation in the sound quality. When the volume is louder, there is often the illusion of better sound...but if you closely match the volumes, you'll see that there's no difference in the overall sound quality. 6SE has so much reserve power...


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just noticed something odd. Do you guys hear a reduction in SQ when two headphones are plugged in at once? I just got given a HD800 for a loan by one of the local head-fi'ers, and was switching between them and the HF-2, plugged into the high and low impedance jacks.

 At one point I unplugged the HF-2, and started listening exclusively to the HD800, and noticed that it somehow sounded better than before. So while the music was playing, I replugged the HF-2, and noticed that sound out of the HD800 immediately grew flatter and less involving.

 Have other WA6/SE owners found the same?_

 

By the way (a little off topic but) I have been listening to the HD800 in the low jack of my WA5LE recently and it sounds very good, a little blacker background (and maybe a little better than the high jack?). Have you tried the HD800 out of the low jack on your WA6SE?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When two phones are plugged in at the same time to the 6SE, there is a reduction in volume level to both phones, but I have not noticed any degradation in the sound quality._

 

You're quite possibly right, and the difference noted might be just the volume drop. I wonder if id didnt also partially have something to do with driving two different impedances at the same time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way (a little off topic but) I have been listening to the HD800 in the low jack of my WA5LE recently and it sounds very good, a little blacker background (and maybe a little better than the high jack?). Have you tried the HD800 out of the low jack on your WA6SE?_

 

Not as yet, no. I just tried it briefly after reading your post and perhaps the background is a tad blacker, there's a volume drop as well though, making it difficult to compare directly. I'll try it over the week and see.


----------



## koven

first ever pics of my wa6/rig!


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_first ever pics of my wa6/rig!_

 

That's a thing of beauty koven, grats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [size=xx-small]and oddly similar to my setup, lol[/size]


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a thing of beauty koven, grats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [size=xx-small]and oddly similar to my setup, lol[/size]_

 

That certainly looks very nice... how does the Pico DAC sound through the WA6?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I received an email from Jack to told me to send it to them. I will print out the email Jack sent me along with the failed tube._

 

Have you send in the defeated tube to Sophia Electric? I received similar reply from Jack and will be posting it today. I have also alerted Sophia Electric of my intention via email but no reply so far.

 Keep us posted ya.


----------



## koven

one more pic.. w/ lights off









  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a thing of beauty koven, grats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [size=xx-small]and oddly similar to my setup, lol[/size]_

 

lol yeah, it's very similar.. thanks!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That certainly looks very nice... how does the Pico DAC sound through the WA6?_

 

thanks.. it sounds really good, but then again.. havent really tried other sources w/ the wa6


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

My earlier experience with Sylvania branded GE NOS Fat Bottled 6FD7 wasn't favorable in view of its additional gain and muddy presentation. A DIYed Supra LoRad 2.5 Power Cable and a jar of Mapleshade SilClear Contact Enhancer were added to my inventory recently.

 The IC, PC and 6FD7 are now coated with SilClear and the impression is completely day and night from what I can recalled when the 6FD7 were last used. It produce much more details with solid mid and low frequency. My listening also move from 5th row to 2nd row of the hall.....


----------



## atbglenn

I just won 4 NOS Sylvania 6FD7's ebay for $14.99 in original boxes. I hope they sound good.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just won 4 NOS Sylvania 6FD7's ebay for $14.99 in original boxes. I hope they sound good._

 

I see you have plenty of tubes in your inventory... Do you sell those in excess of your usage...?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see you have plenty of tubes in your inventory... Do you sell those in excess of your usage...?_

 

OutdoorXplorer,

 I like to keep a nice stock of tubes just in case they get expensive and hard to get. At this time I have no plans selling any. If I decide to upgrade my amp at some point in the future to lets say, a WA22, then I'll sell my stock of driver/output tubes.

 Glenn


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OutdoorXplorer,

 I like to keep a nice stock of tubes just in case they get expensive and hard to get. At this time I have no plans selling any. If I decide to upgrade my amp at some point in the future to lets say, a WA22, then I'll sell my stock of driver/output tubes.

 Glenn_

 

Thank you.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I just got my confirmation email for the WA22 and apparently the wait time is now 6 weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh well, the longer I wait the better it'll sound!


----------



## havagr8da

Hey guys, I'm with y'all with a WA6 all upgrades and 2 sets of tubes. Jack is the man. Great amp!


----------



## Ozer

Hello guys ! I'm pretty new for this forum, headphones, headphone amps, tubes, Woo Audio.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't own a Woo Audio amp, so I'm not a member of this (yet), but I'm sure I will own one soon.... I'm 18 years old and live with my parents and have no job... So I can't test new stuff all the time as many here do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm soon going to buy my first (not counting cheap headsets..) setup of HP's, HP amp and Dac.... I'm allready sure about that I'm going to buy Grado 325is headphones, but now I'm wondering if Woo Audio 3(+) is any good for this headphone ?? As it's my first HP amp, I'm sure I wouldn't hear if it wasn't perfect, as everything will sound good compared to what I'm listening to right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I want to be sure Grado and Woo audio is a pretty good combination.... If you need to know, I listen to rock, mostly by the band named Paramore...

 I really don't have money for Woo Audio 3 right now, but I will wait to buy Dac later instead...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ozer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello guys ! I'm pretty new for this forum, headphones, headphone amps, tubes, Woo Audio.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't own a Woo Audio amp, so I'm not a member of this (yet), but I'm sure I will own one soon.... I'm 18 years old and live with my parents and have no job... So I can't test new stuff all the time as many here do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm soon going to buy my first (not counting cheap headsets..) setup of HP's, HP amp and Dac.... I'm allready sure about that I'm going to buy Grado 325is headphones, but now I'm wondering if Woo Audio 3(+) is any good for this headphone ?? As it's my first HP amp, I'm sure I wouldn't hear if it wasn't perfect, as everything will sound good compared to what I'm listening to right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I want to be sure Grado and Woo audio is a pretty good combination.... If you need to know, I listen to rock, mostly by the band named Paramore...

 I really don't have money for Woo Audio 3 right now, but I will wait to buy Dac later instead..._

 

Get a job and a girlfriend first.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get a job and a girlfriend first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

An amp, dac, and headphone will be way cheaper than a girlfriend!


----------



## koven

^ Pfft, headphones can't make you a sandwich.. nor can they.... yeah, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, how are you going to buy a 325is and WA3 w/o a job? 

 If you plan on putting it on your credit card, I will just say headphones are not worth ruining your credit for... lol


----------



## Ozer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Pfft, headphones can't make you a sandwich.. nor can they.... yeah, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, how are you going to buy a 325is and WA3 w/o a job? 

 If you plan on putting it on your credit card, I will just say headphones are not worth ruining your credit for... lol_

 

I have money for it.... Have been saving, plus my parents provide with some money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nobody has answered my question... Is Woo Audio the right choose for me ?? And if you can and want, feel free to tip me of a Dac that goes well with the combination I will have... Around 300 Dollars...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_An amp, dac, and headphone will be way cheaper than a girlfriend! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But at 18 the GF is more fun if you weren't broke from buying gear.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But at 18 the GF is more fun if you weren't broke from buying gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It all depends what kind of pleasure and satisfaction that you want.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It all depends what kind of pleasure and satisfaction that you want._

 

The answer to this conundrum is simple: Date someone from team Girl-Fi, and get the best of both worlds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [size=xx-small]I'm sure they're going to hunt me down for that one... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]

 Ozer, Woo and Grado do tend to be a good combination, if what I'm hearing with my WA6SE and HF-2 are anything to judge by, but the best advice I can give you is to try and attend a local meet to hear for yourself what you'll like the most. This is a very subjective hobby, and what one person might find ideal, another might find lacking.

 As far as DACs around the 300 dollar mark, the Pico DAC is your best choice. In that price bracket nothing can touch it.


----------



## omoanya

I Just received my max Wa6se, but my ue11pros seem to generate a small hum and pickup WA6SE chassis noise. HD650's don't do it and UE11's work great on everything else. Any thoughts ?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I Just received my max Wa6se, but my ue11pros seem to generate a small hum and pickup WA6SE chassis noise. HD650's don't do it and UE11's work great on everything else. Any thoughts ?_

 

Welcome 2 the Club...

 Are you referring chassis noise generated by the transformer or tubes...?


----------



## omoanya

When I tap on the chassis, or transformer case, i can hear it in the UE11's. The tubes are solidly plugged in and they don't seem to be creating noise. As it only happens with the UE11's it seems its not the Woo. 

 Can you tell me about the burn in ? Should I play varied material through it ? How does the sound improve ? I am on day 3 with about 36 hours ..

 thanks,


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I tap on the chassis, or transformer case, i can hear it in the UE11's. The tubes are solidly plugged in and they don't seem to be creating noise. As it only happens with the UE11's it seems its not the Woo. 

 Can you tell me about the burn in ? Should I play varied material through it ? How does the sound improve ? I am on day 3 with about 36 hours ..

 thanks,_

 

What you're describing sounds like tube microphonics. Certain tubes exhibit this more than others - as long as you're not tapping on the amp or the table the amp is on while listening to music, this should not be a problem.


----------



## omoanya

Thanks, for some reason its only happening with those IEMs but i'll keep testing. I am using the Ultrasonic tube dampers from Herbies Audiolab. Any thoughts on burning in the maxed out WA6SE ?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, for some reason its only happening with those IEMs but i'll keep testing. I am using the Ultrasonic tube dampers from Herbies Audiolab. Any thoughts on burning in the maxed out WA6SE ?_

 

I would check out the cord for your headphones. My Denon AH D-7000 will pick up a very slight hum as were my Senn HD-800 will not. 
 Plus I would check for a ground loop. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_._

 

How did that set of ten 6EW7 fat tubes work out for you?

 I just won a set of ten from the same guy you did.

 ss


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I Just received my max Wa6se, but my ue11pros seem to generate a small hum and pickup WA6SE chassis noise. HD650's don't do it and UE11's work great on everything else. Any thoughts ?_

 

My WA6 (non-SE) is my best amp for my UE11Pros (as well as my ES3X and JH13Pro) - Perfect in all ways - with NO hum or noise of any kind.

 I read your other posts, and it's still not clear if you hear this when not touching the amp at all. Whenever you get hum you could look at power filters and tube dampeners, and look for ground loops.


----------



## omoanya

Sorry -- when not touching the amp at all there's a low hum. Only with the UE11's, i tried two adapters (mini to 1/4") and got the same. I'll check the ground loop and maybe plug into a different outlet (circuit). I'm still waiting for the amp to burn-in.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It could be a bad tube I guess. Does it happen to both left and right or just single sided? Try cleaning the tubes pin.


----------



## omoanya

Ok, I checked the ground loop and replaced the power cable on the WA6SE with a high-end Tara Labs AC cable. I am still getting the hum on the UE 11's (it sounds like an AC 60hz hum) it is low level and not affected by volume, but the chassis noise being picked up is a little less noticeable now, (its louder when the UE11 is plugged into the high input, seems logical) and of course theres no need for me to tap on the case. But the hum is there especially during low passages so basically I can't use my UE11's with my Woo, which is very distrubing to me. I emailed Jack and I'll wait to see what he says.


----------



## omoanya

A couple of questions:

 1) with the upgrade , do you guys see a lot of change in the sound throughout and after the 100 hours burn in ?

 2) With no sources plugged in, is some hiss/noise to be expected in the headphones once you approach 50% volume 

 thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I checked the ground loop and replaced the power cable on the WA6SE with a high-end Tara Labs AC cable. I am still getting the hum on the UE 11's (it sounds like an AC 60hz hum) it is low level and not affected by volume, but the chassis noise being picked up is a little less noticeable now, (its louder when the UE11 is plugged into the high input, seems logical) and of course theres no need for me to tap on the case. But the hum is there especially during low passages so basically I can't use my UE11's with my Woo, which is very distrubing to me. I emailed Jack and I'll wait to see what he says._

 

What happens when you unplug all your sources from the WA6SE and only have the power cable and UE11Pro connected? 

 If that doesn't help, what happens when you move the WA6 SE to another outlet or even another room and try the same thing?

 If those help, what happens when you plug in different sources?

 If it's not helped by changing jacks, rooms or sources, what happens when you set the WA6SE on some rubber balls like handballs?

 Do you have tube dampeners to try?


----------



## sillysally

I ordered a EML 274B today, so will have it this week. I will report back on my findings comparing it to a SP 274B. 
 And yes my first SP 274B died after about 28 days. However Jack handled it and I got a new SP 274B.

 I have a WA6SE maxxed. Love it!
 Headphones that I use now are Senn HD-800. 

 However if you are going to get a higher end Tube amp like my 6SE you better get some good tubes for back up. I now look at my 6SE as a hobby. And tube rolling really does make big differentials in how your audio sounds with your headphones and source. And just because you get a NOS/NIB back up set of tubes, that doesn't give you any guaranty that the new tubes will be good. 

 I just got a set of NOS 6EW7 from Jack, one of the tubes lasted about 20 min. Then it started to hum and then the channel went out. 

 ss


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered a EML 274B today, so will have it this week. I will report back on my findings comparing it to a SP 274B. 
 And yes my first SP 274B died after about 28 days. However Jack handled it and I got a new SP 274B.

 I have a WA6SE maxxed. Love it!

 I just got a set of NOS 6EW7 from Jack, one of the tubes lasted about 20 min. Then it started to hum and then the channel went out. 

 ss_

 

Please post your impression once the EML is in da house. I am sending in the SP 274B after the long weekend over here in Malaysia. I do keep some 6EW7 in stock and let me know if I can help.


----------



## Covenant

My EML 5U4G and Sylvania 6FD7s just landed, I'll report back after I've tried them out tonight


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My EML 5U4G and Sylvania 6FD7s just landed, I'll report back after I've tried them out tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess the 6FD7 will do well with the EML5U4G as it is much meatier than 6EW7. I was told EML 5U4G is weaker on the lower frequency in comparison with SP274B. Please update your initial impression and the progressive changes after the tube is burn in ya.


----------



## Covenant

Very first impression, using the EML 5U4G Mesh and Sylvania 6FD7s with the HD800:

 Hoooooooly crap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Treble has opened up and shimmers spectacularly. The Sophia seems rolled off in the upper frequencies in comparison. Bass remains just as punchy and dynamic. The entire presentation seems enlivened, possessed of greater vivacity than before.

 Note that this is rolling both the EML and Sylvanias in simultaneously, so which portion of the changes are attributed to which tube I don't know yet. No time for comprehensive testing tonight, so I thought I'd just stick them in and go with it.

 Imaging seems improved as well, with instruments more localised and distinct from each other. I'm hearing seperation on some tracks I don't remember being present with the Sophia & RCA 6DE7 combo.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

A brief impression making me wanna EML 5U4G with my setup. I gotta wait for the RIP SP274B to be sent to Sophia Electric when the Post Office reopens after the Public Holiday here. If I am being entertain with a replacement, I might sell it to get a EML as I do have a spare SP274B in use now.

 Covenant, some pix on the glowing EML 5U4G will be great...


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Covenant, some pix on the glowing EML 5U4G will be great..._

 

My camera isn't great, but I'll try and take some either tomorrow or on the weekend. One dissapointing thing was that I just got a loud crack in the right channel - it seems my Woo might not like these 6FD7s either. I've painted the pins in DeoxiT and are going to leave them overnight and try again tomorrow.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My camera isn't great, but I'll try and take some either tomorrow or on the weekend. One dissapointing thing was that I just got a loud crack in the right channel - it seems my Woo might not like these 6FD7s either. I've painted the pins in DeoxiT and are going to leave them overnight and try again tomorrow._

 

Oppps. I remembered that happened to my 6FD7 too when it was initially seated on the WA6SE. Overtime, I have not heard the same experience again. My 6FD7 are coated with Mapleshade SilClear Contact Enhancer and they do sound awesome.

 Can't wait to witness your glowing EML tube..


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oppps. I remembered that happened to my 6FD7 too when it was initially seated on the WA6SE. Overtime, I have not heard the same experience again._

 

Oh really, so it could be just a burn in thing? I might plug in my cheap portable headphones and let them play overnight then and see how it goes, because IMO those drive tubes sound exceptional.

 Edit: Couildn't help myself and fired her back up, with the HF-2's this time. There's definitely treble magic happening, it wasnt just synergy with the HD800. The increase in clarity in female vocals is apparent on the Grados, too.


----------



## atbglenn

Just got my 6FD7's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Boxes and tubes look great. Can't wait to try them.


----------



## dannie01

I can see some great tubes.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Great tubes... Can't find it anywhere on eBay


----------



## dannie01

I can recall when I plugged the 6FD7s in, the output unit will run hotter than the 6EW7 currently use in the amp, could be different current drawing, correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can see some great tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Danny, I hope they sound decent. I plugged one pair in, and so far no problems such as noise or microphonics. I'm burning them in using Apple Earbuds for about 10 hours to make sure they're ok.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

If I am not mistaken, 6FD7 does draw more power than 6EW7 and 6DE7. Your rectifier tube should be able to handle that, no worries.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can recall when I plugged the 6FD7s in, the output unit will run hotter than the 6EW7 currently use in the amp, could be different current drawing, correct me if I'm wrong._

 

Thanks for the info Danny. I'll check the temperature with my digital thermometer after it's been on for a while


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Danny, I hope they sound decent. I plugged one pair in, and so far no problems such as noise or microphonics. I'm burning them in using Apple Earbuds for about 10 hours to make sure they're ok._

 


 Hey Glenn, I bought total 5 pairs of 6FD7 till now, 3 x GE, 1 x Sylvania and 1 x RCA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and they both sound great in my 6SE especially in dynamic and bass extension but I'll say the highs of the Raytheon 6EW7s are better.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I am not mistaken, 6FD7 does draw more power than 6EW7 and 6DE7. Your rectifier tube should be able to handle that, no worries._

 

Thanks OutdoorXplorer, I'm just worrying the replaced 274B rip again with the 6FD7.


----------



## atbglenn

Took some temperature readings after 2 hours with 6FD7's and GZ30 rectifier installed. (Standard 6)

 Between the 3 tubes on the printed "5AR4" 55.9 Degrees C
 Top plate where "WA6" is printed 38.6
 Top of Transformer 36.2

 Totally acceptable temperatures for a tube amp. I'll measure again later tonight.


----------



## takezo

6de7/6ew7 = 0.9A each tube
 6fd7 = 0.925A each tube

 increase of 2.8% current draw. 

 wa6 power transformer can take up to 1.2A from
 each drive/power tubes. jack confirmed last year.


----------



## koven

what differences do the 6fd7's provide vs the stock 6de7?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very first impression, using the EML 5U4G Mesh and Sylvania 6FD7s with the HD800:

 Hoooooooly crap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Treble has opened up and shimmers spectacularly. The Sophia seems rolled off in the upper frequencies in comparison. Bass remains just as punchy and dynamic. The entire presentation seems enlivened, possessed of greater vivacity than before.

 Note that this is rolling both the EML and Sylvanias in simultaneously, so which portion of the changes are attributed to which tube I don't know yet. No time for comprehensive testing tonight, so I thought I'd just stick them in and go with it.

 Imaging seems improved as well, with instruments more localised and distinct from each other. I'm hearing seperation on some tracks I don't remember being present with the Sophia & RCA 6DE7 combo._

 

I think Jamato8 also heard similar things with EML vs Sophia, which might make the 2x more expensive tube worth trying someday for me. (well, $280 vs $150, right?)


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn, I bought total 5 pairs of 6FD7 till now, 3 x GE, 1 x Sylvania and 1 x RCA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and they both sound great in my 6SE especially in dynamic and bass extension but I'll say the highs of the Raytheon 6EW7s are better._

 

yes, the large bottle 6fd7 is best at soundstage and dynamic presentation, especially
 the bass. the 6ew7 has slightly better refined sound but less dynamic. i think
 the 6de7 is closest to the sound of the 5687 triodes, which excels at dynamics,
 resolution and upfront sound, at the cost of refinement and soundstage.
 great for rock and pop.

 if you listen to lots of acoustic instruments or vocals, the 6dn7 or 6sn7 excels 
 at it. these offer the best refinement of bass, mids and highs, at the cost of
 dynamics maybe... it's not bad, but not the first choice for rock though.

 ps: dannie, have you tried the takman resistors? these are excellent at the cathode
 plates and for the cathode bypass positions. i think they're on par with the rikens
 but much cheaper and slightly less warm.


----------



## peanuthead

A quick question for the folks who've rolled rectifier tubes on the 6 and 6SE.
 Other than the more expensive Sophia and EML tubes, what are some of the other cheaper rectifier tubes you've tried and like? Also, has anyone noticed any significant sound-signature difference between the 5AR4 and 5U4G line of tubes?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn, I bought total 5 pairs of 6FD7 till now, 3 x GE, 1 x Sylvania and 1 x RCA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and they both sound great in my 6SE especially in dynamic and bass extension but I'll say the highs of the Raytheon 6EW7s are better._

 

Why the hell am I having so many issues with 6FD7s then? I thought the problems might have been gone when the new Sylvanias played for an hour straight without distortion, and then CRACK! through the headphones. It's a seriously loud noise, and seems to occur somewhere between every hour and every 20 minutes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what differences do the 6fd7's provide vs the stock 6de7?_

 

I think Takezo summed it up - the 6FD7 combine good soundstaging with excellent dynamics. The 6DE7 are just as dynamic, but soundstaging and airiness suffers slightly. The 6EW7 are airier and purer in the treble, but less dynamic. To my ears the 6FD7 is the best overall package, which is why I really want to get a set working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think Jamato8 also heard similar things with EML vs Sophia, which might make the 2x more expensive tube worth trying someday for me. (well, $280 vs $150, right?)_

 

It was $280 shipped for me, but then I'm in Australia. Methinks it's $250 shipped in the US.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why the hell am I having so many issues with 6FD7s then? I thought the problems might have been gone when the new Sylvanias played for an hour straight without distortion, and then CRACK! through the headphones. It's a seriously loud noise, and seems to occur somewhere between every hour and every 20 minutes._

 

Does this happen in both channels at the same time? if so it may be another problem such as an intermittent rectifier or something else.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this happen in both channels at the same time? if so it may be another problem such as an intermittent rectifier or something else._

 

It only seems to happen with 6FD7 tubes, and this has been with both the Sophia and the EML. 6EW7s and 6DE7s work fine. Tbh the cracking noise is too loud and sudden to really identify which channel its coming from.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It only seems to happen with 6FD7 tubes, and this has been with both the Sophia and the EML. 6EW7s and 6DE7s work fine. Tbh the cracking noise is too loud and sudden to really identify which channel its coming from._

 

I'll listen to my 6FD7's tonight. If I notice this problem, I'll let you know.


----------



## jc9394

No cracking sound from my 6FD7s at all.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why the hell am I having so many issues with 6FD7s then? I thought the problems might have been gone when the new Sylvanias played for an hour straight without distortion, and then CRACK! through the headphones. It's a seriously loud noise, and seems to occur somewhere between every hour and every 20 minutes._

 

can you take voltage reading at pin 1, 4, 5, and 9? maybe your wa6SE has
 different voltage being sent to the anode plates... not likely but... a loud 
 crackling popping sound occurs when tubes arc... but if that's the case, why
 is it arcing on all of your 6fd7 tubes? you should address this to jack asap.

 maybe it's the teflon sockets... but that doesn't explain why only the 6fd7 tubes
 present the obtrusive noise... can you see any difference in the diameter or
 width of the 6fd7 pins? does it insert easily or tightly with tension?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am on Teflon tube sockets too but no such cracking issue except with the 6FD7 was pretty new. It never happen after devirginized.


----------



## Covenant

I'm not sure which pin is the "beginning" pin to take those readings, and I don't actually own a multimeter (i know, i know), but I'll look into getting that info over the next week or so.

 The tension feels about the same as with my other tubes, although I'll need to visually compare pin size.


----------



## atbglenn

Covenant,

 The problem occurs with more than one pair of 6FD7's?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Covenant,

 The problem occurs with more than one pair of 6FD7's?_

 

Yeah, I've tried two pairs of Sylvania 6FD7s and one pair of RCA 6FD7s


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I've tried two pairs of Sylvania 6FD7s and one pair of RCA 6FD7s_

 

WOW that sucks. Strange problem indeed.


----------



## sillysally

Covenant I feel your pain. But as I am sure you know tube rolling is nothing more than a crap shut. But when you do get lucky, what a joy that is. 

 I just got a great pair of GE 6EW7 from jack. The strange thing is these GE 6EW7 don't match up with my other GE 6EW7s. But then again these new GE 6EW7 sound so much better. 

 ss


----------



## atbglenn

My standard WA6 seems to like my new 6FD7's. Been listening for several hours with no problems so far.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure which pin is the "beginning" pin to take those readings, and I don't actually own a multimeter (i know, i know), but I'll look into getting that info over the next week or so.

 The tension feels about the same as with my other tubes, although I'll need to visually compare pin size._

 

here's a pic of the pin arrangement in the wa6SE:







 place the black pin of the multimeter on the ground point between the 
 sockets. (this will act as the reference zero voltage) place the red pin
 of the multimeter at pins 1, 4 and 9 to take readings. if you're not 
 comfortable with live electricity, please don't do it yourself. i'm inclined
 to believe there's an issue with one of your sockets.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ps: dannie, have you tried the takman resistors? these are excellent at the cathode
 plates and for the cathode bypass positions. i think they're on par with the rikens
 but much cheaper and slightly less warm._

 

Hi takezo, thanks for the info. I have the RMGs there at cathod bypass positions, did you ever compare the sound between the RMG and Takman? Thanks.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It only seems to happen with 6FD7 tubes, and this has been with both the Sophia and the EML. 6EW7s and 6DE7s work fine. Tbh the cracking noise is too loud and sudden to really identify which channel its coming from._

 

I had a crackling sound from one channel with 6fd7 and 6ew7 tubes. Sent the amp to Jack and he replaced what was a faulty socket. Not had the problem since.

 Simon


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi takezo, thanks for the info. I have the RMGs there at cathod bypass positions, did you ever compare the sound between the RMG and Takman? Thanks._

 

hi dannie, yes, to a certain degree. i've been using the riken and takman at
 the cathode bypass and cathode plate position recently and they do impart
 distinguishable differences in the overall sound. the riken is super smooth and
 warm but also high resolution and clarity. the takman is not as warm but 
 smooth with just as high resolution and clarity. both are sweet sounding but
 the takman is 1/5 the price at 50 cents for the 1/4watt line.

 one thing i wouldn't do is to use these carbon composite resistors all over 
 the place. it'd be too much of the warm signature. i'm staying with the mills
 or kiwame at the power filtering stages and go with takman or riken only at
 the cathode plate and bypass position.


----------



## dannie01

Hi takezo, thanks a lot for the detail description of the riken and takman. But from PartsconneXion website, I can see there is a new series of metal film resistor called REY for audio coming soon seems very good.

*"Our REY metal film resistor for audio equipment has the features that it consists of resistor thin film made mainly of Ni-Cr-Al materials, brass caps and non-oxygen copper wire. High-precision is realized with laser trimming and high stability and high sound quality are achieved with most proper coating. This resistor is usable for any audio components."*

 But they supply 1 watt max so for the 2 watt requirement of the 6SE, a parallel connection for 2 resistors at the cathode plate and bypass position is needed. I'll order some when they have stock.


----------



## takezo

dannie, i don't think you need a 2 watt resistor for the wa6SE, as the regular takman rex
 is rated for 500v with the 1 watt line. the 1/2 watt line is rated for 350v and the 1/4 watt
 line is rated for 250v. the 1 watt resistor is more than enough for the power filtering stage
 which will see only about 220v at most on the wa6SE. the cathode plate/bypass positions
 will only see 80v at the most so the 1/4watt line is fine there. but ultimately it's up to you.

 i'd be interested in the new REY line by takman but i think i'll stick with the carbon composite
 in the cathode plate/by pass positions. i may try the REY in the power filtering stages, as
 they are metal film types, but the mills are hard to beat. one thing the REY has going for it
 is the low prices, so i will probably try them out on the wa6 i have first. thanks for pointing
 them out dannie.


----------



## dannie01

Hi takezo, great to know 1 watt is more than enough, will order some REX in the cathode and bypass then REY when available in power supply as advised, thanks again.


----------



## plonter

hey guys...I am planning to upgrade to the WA6 with the PDPS and the sophia tube. coming from the friendly EF1 I am looking for a monster improvement. anymore upgrade you can advise me before purchasing?

 and a few question:

 Is the power supply of the WA6 internal..?didn't see any picture on woo's site for an external one?

 do I need to order special 220v version or it can handle both 220 and 110?

 how is the sound with the sophia tube? is it warm and lush? would you recommend changing the driver tubes also?

 thanks!


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys...I am planning to upgrade to the WA6 with the PDPS and the sophia tube. coming from the friendly EF1 I am looking for a monster improvement. anymore upgrade you can advise me before purchasing?
That's it.
 Is the power supply of the WA6 internal..?didn't see any picture on woo's site for an external one?
Yes
 do I need to order special 220v version or it can handle both 220 and 110?
There is a voltage selector on the back of the amp._

 

.


----------



## plonter

thanks for the quick reply mate! I guess you are a WA6 owner..?

 I am very excited, because it will be my first serious tube amp. but I am expecting a huge improvement over the EF1 and I just hope that I won't get dissapointed.


----------



## plonter

sorry for the dummish questions but just want to find out some details before buying.

 are you guys changing the rectifier tube or the two driver tubes to tweak the sound? I guess the rectifier tube gives the most impact on the sound since it is the gain tube...am I right?
 didn't see a lot of options for a rectifier tube replacments...but I guess that with the princess I might not have to.

 and one more thing...can someone please explain shortly what is the difference between Output Transformer Coupled amp and OLT? is the first better for driving low and high impedance cans alike?


----------



## takezo

from my experiences, the rectifier does impart it's own sound signature thru the wa6 
 and wa6SE. these are not gain tubes but act as the stage where AC voltage/current
 is changed to DC voltage/current. (an inverter does the opposite) i think the sound we
 can distinguish is due not to the quantity, but the manner in which the electrons are
 being moved from the anode plates to the cathode plates. thus plate structure, size,
 composition, heat dissipating ability, plate resistance and other variables are important.

 as much impact as the rectifiers may have, the tubes in front impart more distinguishable
 sound signature for the wa6/6SE from my experience. these twin tubes are duo triodes
 with two separate sections that act as a drive/gain section and power/output section.
 most of these duo/dissimilar triodes were made for televisions of the 40's to the 70's.
 the most popular were the 6sn7 variants which have two sections that are equal and
 are not dissimilar like the 6de7. these 6sn7 were made for small tv monitors of the 40's
 but as soon as the screens got bigger engineers needed a more powerful section that
 could power the larger area of the screen. thus the 6de7 and many others were created.
 for power and dynamic clarity these newer triodes are fine but i think the craftsmanship
 and material used in the 40's resulted in better tubes like the 6sn7. these
 earlier 6sn7 give a more refined, balanced and ethereal sound quality, which
 works for acoustic music the best. woo audio seems to be selling the adapter
 for the 6sn7 on the wa6. BUT, these adapters will not work for the wa6SE
 without further modifying the amount of voltage reaching the cathode sect.
 instead of changing the amp internal circuitry, a resistor can be used in the
 adapter itself for the modification. i don't think wooaudio has worked on 
 making these available yet.

 as good as these duo triodes are, the better( or simply more expensive) amps 
 make use of two separate tubes for the drive/gain and power section. because 
 the 6sn7 lacks power to make speakers function at their best most amp builders 
 use the 6sn7 for the drive section only, with a separate more efficient tube for 
 the power section.this allows for more tube rolling combinations and flexiblility. 
 but for most headphones, except the k1000 and k340, the wa6 and wa6SE works
 fine with just the 6sn7 performing both functions, mainly because the output
 transformer picks up for the less than ideal power section of the 6sn7. 
 a good example of using separate driver tube and power tube is the wa22 and 
 the wa5. but don't get discouraged, these duo triodes sound great on the wa6
 and wa6SE.

 the main difference between the transformer-coupled and otl is that one uses
 transformer in the output section to change the impedance, voltage and
 current to drive lower impedance cans which require more current than voltages.
 the otl doesn't use transformers but instead usually uses capacitors and
 output tubes in series to function as the transformer. transformers are thought
 to impart more distortion than capacitors and thus the otl amps. this may be
 more relevant if transformers were still made in the 50's or if the amp was to be
 used solely for speakers, but wooaudio makes their own hand-wound
 transformers to their liking. i hope i haven't caused any more confusion and 
 that some of this helped in making your choice.


----------



## plonter

thanks a lot for the explenation. but, is the wa6 considered as warm sounding amp...? i mean, it isn't S.Sish sounding right?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks a lot for the explenation. but, is the wa6 considered as warm sounding amp...? i mean, it isn't S.Sish sounding right?_

 

It has a wide range of sound depending on the tubes, but I haven't felt it sounding SS ever. If you get one and think it sounds like an SS amp, try some new tubes.


----------



## plonter

how are the stock driver tubes that comes with it? what others do you recommend for using with the princess for a super warm and creamy sound?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how are the stock driver tubes that comes with it? what others do you recommend for using with the princess for a super warm and creamy sound?_

 

the stock driver tubes are fine. if you want super warm and creamy then you
 must ask jack of wooaudio to change the cathode plate resistors and
 cathode bypass resistors from what they normally use to Riken or SHINKOH Tantalum
 carbon composite resistors. these make a huge difference; more than you can
 imagine. they cost more than the stock resistors wooaudio uses but it's very
 effective. you only need four of these resistors at about $4 a piece, though
 i don't know what wooaudio will charge for the upgrade.


----------



## plonter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the stock driver tubes are fine. if you want super warm and creamy then you
 must ask jack of wooaudio to change the cathode plate resistors and
 cathode bypass resistors from what they normally use to Riken or SHINKOH Tantalum
 carbon composite resistors. these make a huge difference; more than you can
 imagine. they cost more than the stock resistors wooaudio uses but it's very
 effective. you only need four of these resistors at about $4 a piece, though
 i don't know what wooaudio will charge for the upgrade._

 

Thanks...i will take this into account. and i thought that I can just play with tubes for tweaking.
 maybe I will try the stock ones for a while and continue from there.


----------



## Covenant

I've finally got a reply from Jack RE: my problems with 6FD7 tubes:

  Quote:


 Jason,

 I found the problem. The 6FD7 basically is not compatible with the current design. People must stopped using it unless the power supply is modified. Some users do not experience the crackling noise because some of more current builds which some parts are different than the earlier buids. However, it can damage the amp in the long run. You can let your friends know not to use in on their 6SE.

 Normally, we use the 6FD7 for WA6 where people need higher outputs. 

 To sum up, there is nothing wrong with your amp but the 6FD7 is not compatible with the current design. I should had been more specific when you ordered them. 
 

Now I just have to hope that I haven't damaged my Woo with the 3-5hrs I've been using 6FD7s in there. ><


----------



## h.rav

I have 3 matched pair of 6FD7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 And they are my favorite tubes.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've finally got a reply from Jack RE: my problems with 6FD7_

 

So is it 100% compatible with the standard 6 without modification? I'll have to email Jack


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 3 matched pair of 6FD7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 And they are my favorite tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They were my favourite as well, I just couldn't use them without sharp cracking noises every 30mins or so. I'm guessing if you don't hear those noises, then your 6SE must have been an older model before Jack made whatever changes he did to the current builds to make them incompatable.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They were my favourite as well, I just couldn't use them without sharp cracking noises every 30mins or so. I'm guessing if you don't hear those noises, then your 6SE must have been an older model before Jack made whatever changes he did to the current builds to make them incompatable._

 

Probably those were the changes that he made to make the Sophia compatible with the SE.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Can we sum up that those who are using 6FD7 without experiencing the cracking sound can continue to use such tubes on the newer 6SE or should stock completely?? I have been using for a while without any issue so far..


----------



## ciphercomplete

I actually have a older WA6 and had a pair of 6FD7s and they definitely crackled. I thought it was because of the adapter that I was using but since Jack Woo stopped making the Teflon adapters I resold the tubes on ebay.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can we sum up that those who are using 6FD7 without experiencing the cracking sound can continue to use such tubes on the newer 6SE or should stock completely?? I have been using for a while without any issue so far.._

 

I'd contact Jack to double check, if your 6SE is relatively new. I'm all paranoid about mine now that I've run 6FD7s for a while.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually have a older WA6 and had a pair of 6FD7s and they definitely crackled. I thought it was because of the adapter that I was using but since Jack Woo stopped making the Teflon adapters I resold the tubes on ebay._

 


 Yours is a standard 6? not an SE model?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Yep, standard. My 6FD7s crackled when using the volume control and would make intermittent crackle noises during the listening session. Warm up never cured the problem. I never experienced the loud pop or crackle that others have described though so it could be a altogether different issue or even a bad pair of tubes. I have had absolutely no problems using any of my other tubes though.


----------



## atbglenn

So far my 6FD7's sound great with no crackling whatsoever. I've only got 15 hours on them so time will tell. I sent Jack an email asking about the compatibility with the standard model including those like mine that have the pseudo power supply mod. Hopefully he'll get back to me soon..


----------



## takezo

that's unfortunate. if jack says it'll damage the amp then it probably means the
 power transformer is different than what use to be implemented. the only difference
 i can see from a 6de7 and a 6fd7 is the current draw with the latter drawing about
 2.8% more thant he 6de7... not much margin for error...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's unfortunate. if jack says it'll damage the amp then it probably means the
 power transformer is different than what use to be implemented. the only difference
 i can see from a 6de7 and a 6fd7 is the current draw with the latter drawing about
 2.8% more thant he 6de7... not much margin for error..._

 

I purchased my 6 in May of 2008. Hopefully before he made any changes to the power supply (that's if he made any at all)


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the only difference
 i can see from a 6de7 and a 6fd7 is the current draw with the latter drawing about
 2.8% more thant he 6de7... not much margin for error..._

 

No, it doesn't sound like it. I'm a little irritated that he sold me the tubes knowing that I have a current production 6SE, tbh.


----------



## takezo

you should ask for a new unit... there's no telling what kind of damage the 6fd7 may've
 caused mainly because you don't know what's been changed and by how much...
 i've had mine for over a year and zero issues with tubes of any spec... even the 6gf7a
 which draws 0.985A, more than the 6fd7...

 one thing you should know is that the 5u4g rectifier draws a current of 3.0A, compared
 to 2.4A from the sophia 274b. this counts against the total current draw the power
 transformer is able to provide all three tubes. in other words, using a 5u4g and a pair
 of 6fd7 will draw a total of 3 + 1.85 = 4.85A. i guess the newer units can't handle
 even that now...


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I purchased my 6 in May of 2008. Hopefully before he made any changes to the power supply (that's if he made any at all)_

 

i think you're safe considering you purchased it over a year ago... maybe,
 the changes are very recent, like the last several months... as long as
 you don't see any arcing/sparks followed by popping or crackling sounds thru
 the hp, i think it's safe. too bad it's so hard to get specs from builders
 that use their own home-made parts. i guess that's to discourage modifications.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i think you're safe considering you purchased it over a year ago... maybe,
 the changes are very recent, like the last several months... as long as
 you don't see any arcing/sparks followed by popping or crackling sounds thru
 the hp, i think it's safe. too bad it's so hard to get specs from builders
 that use their own home-made parts. i guess that's to discourage modifications._

 

I left it on over night playing music at a fairly high volume. No arcing, sparks, or popping through the headphones were noticed. The transformer cover was barely warm (36 Deg C) after 8 hours of use. Seems to be able to handle the 6FD7's just fine. I'm waiting to hear from Jack to confirm it's safe..


----------



## peanuthead

I thought the change was made only to the 6SE at the end of last year around December. I remember Jack saying that they had changed the design from AC heater to DC heater.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am awaiting reply from Jack too as I am equally concern running the amp with 6FD7 with Sophia 274B. I would switch back to 6EW7 for now even I do not suffer any of those displeasure yet.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it doesn't sound like it. I'm a little irritated that he sold me the tubes knowing that I have a current production 6SE, tbh._

 

I can't accept the fact the 6FD7 was sold together with the amp and Jack is station it is not compatible now.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't accept the fact the 6FD7 was sold together with the amp and Jack is station it is not compatible now._

 

It wasn't sold with the amp, it was bought in conjunction with my EML from him recently. But he knows what amp I have, and I asked him to test the 6FD7s in one of his WA6SE's prior to shipping them. Clearly his personal WA6SE must be pre-current-production or something.


----------



## WooAudio

Folks,

 First of all, we have never recommended 6FD7 for the WA6-SE. Not all tubes are the same so not all can be used. The bottom line is that 6FD7 is not compatible with the 6SE, regardless what models you have. You will experience problems such as poping or crackling if you continue to use this tube. We will consider to make future models to be more flexible. However, there are simply too many indirect substitute tubes that make constant adjustment impossible.

 The 6FD7 is suitable for the WA6 only. That is the sole reason we pair this tube to the WA6.

 Also, please do not attempt to modify the amp unless you are familiar with it.

 Thank you for your continued support.

 Jack


----------



## WooAudio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't accept the fact the 6FD7 was sold together with the amp and Jack is station it is not compatible now._

 

This is not true. We don't bundle the 6FD7 with the 6SE.


----------



## Covenant

Hi Jack,

 Thanks for chiming in here. I think our primary concern is what you mentioned about the ability of 6FD7s to damage the 6SE "in the long run". What sort of damage would be incurred, and would it be immediately audible if so? I'm worried about possibly shortening the life of components by using an incompatible tube, and not knowing about it till those components failed over time.

 Edit: Also, would you be willing to modify existing units to support the 6FD7 if the owners requested it? What changes would it require?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WooAudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is not true. We don't bundle the 6FD7 with the 6SE._

 

Thanks for the clarification. I shall remove and store away such tubes for good.


----------



## takezo

covenant, how loud do you listen to your music? this incompatibility may have to do with
 gain, or too much of it from the 6fd7. i don't see how the wa6SE is incompatible, yet
 the wa6 is...


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_covenant, how loud do you listen to your music? this incompatibility may have to do with
 gain, or too much of it from the 6fd7. i don't see how the wa6SE is incompatible, yet
 the wa6 is..._

 

With the 6FD7, my volume knob was normally between 7 and 8 oclock. With 6EW7s its between 8 and 9 oclock.


----------



## takezo

well, nevermind... i thought the crackling sound was a symptom of high volume listening
 but that doesn't seem to be the case. it would be nice to know why it's incompatible with
 the wa6SE, as jack put it... is it power supply issue or gain issue or something else?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am listening at 9 o clock position on 6FD7 and 12 with 6EW7. I hope Jack will post the consequences soon.


----------



## sillysally

will re post


----------



## Covenant

Sort of unrelated, but I've been listening to the HD800's exclusively all week, and just switched back to my HF2's, and tbh I prefer the Grados I think. And this coming from a long time sennheiser fanboy 

 The EML does seem to have the edge in refinement over the sophia, from casual listening anyway. I'll have to spend some time this weekend doing a proper comparison.


----------



## Bohemianism

There seems to be nothing but universal praise for the WooAudio6 and I can afford it, so I'm thinking as to whether I should join the United WoodAudio Front (or is it the WooAudio United Front?)

 If feel like maybe I should be starting with lower priced, quality equipment, as this is my first real foray into hi fi audio however I don't have much disposable income at all and I can't easily afford to upgrade in a year or two when my taste and knowledge mature. 
 So while I have the money to spend at the moment I want to be set and comfortable for quite a while.
 Do you think this is the right position to take? Or am I over extending myself and will end up having the quality lost on me?

 I haven't have any experience with tubes or solid state, but from what I've read I think I'd prefer a tube amp, the only thing is there maintenance that will be difficult for a beginner, or with a bit of enthusiasm (which I have in spades) will I manage?

 Basically should I, a beginner having laid it all out get the WooAudio6 or look at something else IYO?

 Thanks.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think this is the right position to take? Or am I over extending myself and will end up having the quality lost on me?_

 

Difficult to answer this one. While I havent heard the WA6, my 6SE is everything I want it to be, especially now that I've got the EML rectifier. A WA6 with PDPS represents about the best price/performance ratio you can get in a tube amp, and it always resells well, so its a pretty safe choice.

  Quote:


 Basically should I, a beginner having laid it all out get the WooAudio6 or look at something else IYO? 
 

Tube "maintenance" is nothing really. Learn how to insert/remove them (aka, with straight downward pressure rather than rocking or rotating), keep them stored somewhere they wont get knocked about when not in use, and dont let people touch them when they're on and hot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh, and a year or so down the track when SQ starts to get overly warm, replace them. One advantage of the WA6/SE is that tubes are cheap - unless you're crazy like me and try to get the absolute best rectifier around.


----------



## Bohemianism

this is tempting. I mean everyone seems so happy and enthuses on their WooAudio amps, and this way I get settle right into having a product I know is good and be happy. I don't really want the stress of buying, selling, buying until I reach a point where I'll be happy for a while.

 The only thing worrying me if that I'm spending too much money and won't appreciate it.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't really want the stress of buying, selling, buying until I reach a point where I'll be happy for a while.

 The only thing worrying me if that I'm spending too much money and won't appreciate it._

 

Two sides to that coin, really. On the one hand, you could spend alot and not quite get what you hoped for, and that'd suck. On the other hand, you could spend a little, and like what you hear... but then wonder how much greener the grass could be on the other side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pick your poison, really. Oh and welcome to head-fi, sorry about your wallet


----------



## Bohemianism

I might wait for a few more opinions before I take the plunge, but I'm leaning to yes to purchasing the amp.

 I suppose if I really don't like it I could probably sell it fairly easily. General consensus would say I most likely will like it.
 I've also got this money saved up for audio gear and if I don't spend it now I'm just going to hemorrhage it over time (most likely at the pub)


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might wait for a few more opinions before I take the plunge, but I'm leaning to yes to purchasing the amp.

 I suppose if I really don't like it I could probably sell it fairly easily. General consensus would say I most likely will like it.
 I've also got this money saved up for audio gear and if I don't spend it now I'm just going to hemorrhage it over time (most likely at the pub)_

 

I've had mine a year and a half and loving every minute of it. If you get a regular WA6, I'd spend the extra $60 and get the pseudo dual power supply upgrade.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've finally got a reply from Jack RE: my problems with 6FD7 tubes:



 Now I just have to hope that I haven't damaged my Woo with the 3-5hrs I've been using 6FD7s in there. ><_

 

That explain it, my non SE WA6 does not crack but I wonder if that makes the Sophia Princess failed...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That explain it, my non SE WA6 does not crack but I wonder if that makes the Sophia Princess failed..._

 

Good question. I wonder if it does stress the rectifier a bit more than the 6DE7 or 6EW7?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

My Sophia Princess died when I was using the 6EW7.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sophia Princess died when I was using the 6EW7._

 

Then it's probably just a bad run of Sophia's then.


----------



## jc9394

I will be switching back to 6EW7 for a while as I use JH13 all the time now. All my full size are sitting in the closet now.

 I still did not heard back from Sophia Electric after they received my failed tube for almost a week. I guess I have to contact Jack to get either EML 274B or 5U4G. Jack did mention he is stocking both starting this week but in a limited quantity.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sophia Princess died when I was using the 6EW7._

 

You have the fully modded SE?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Yes I am... My SP is on the way to SE and they promised to revert once the tube is received.


----------



## jc9394

Did Jack or Sophia Electric replace it? How long you have your SP before it failed?


----------



## plonter

hey guys,would you say that the WA6 with the princess and the PDPS is to the warm kind if sound between it and other tube amps?

 and another thing...I looked for 6DE7 tubes just too see what are the options
 before I buy the amp and I couldn't find this tube kind anywhere...does it have another name?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WooAudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*First of all, we have never recommended 6FD7 for the WA6-SE.* .............. *The bottom line is that 6FD7 is not compatible with the 6SE, regardless what models you have. You will experience problems such as poping or crackling if you continue to use this tube.
 The 6FD7 is suitable for the WA6 only. That is the sole reason we pair this tube to the WA6*._

 

What a good news, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've got 5 pairs 6FD7 but may be I'm with luck, never heard any pop, crack noise ever in the last hundreds of hrs when listen with them no matter which brand. TBH, I love the impactful, dynamic and punchy sound from the 6FD7s. Now a pair of Raytheon 6EW7 is sitting in the 6SE, thinking it's time to start collect some more NOS 6EW7 by now even I already have 2 pairs now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I would like to know how the 6FD7s damage the 6SE? Does anyone can share some idea of this point that would be much appreciate.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys,would you say that the WA6 with the princess and the PDPS is to the warm kind if sound between it and other tube amps?

 and another thing...I looked for 6DE7 tubes just too see what are the options
 before I buy the amp and I couldn't find this tube kind anywhere...does it have another name?_

 

I can see some available in Tube World but they are not cheap.............


----------



## jc9394

Here is few and cheap... and few GE 6EW7 too


----------



## dannie01

Hey jc, it maybe cheap if ship within US but unfortunately not international shipping and I don't see thay'll ship to Isreal or plonter you may need to ask for a quote.


----------



## jc9394

I just order a pair of GE 6EW7 and a pair of RCA 6DE7. 

 S/He may ship to Israel as he will ship international.


----------



## plonter

I don't mind to shell out on some tubes if they are worth it. 
 what kind (manufacturer) are the stock 6DE7's that come with the WA6, and what is their sound signature comparing to other 6DE7's?

 In the WA6 it will be harder (and more expensive) mission to get tubes because they have to be in pairs and also matching...what is the result if they are not?
 In the EF1 i have to get only one tube. I am just doing some investigation before pulling the trigger, thanks for your help guys.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mind to shell out on some tubes if they are worth it. 
 what kind (manufacturer) are the stock 6DE7's that come with the WA6, and what is their sound signature comparing to other 6DE7's?

 In the WA6 it will be harder (and more expensive) mission to get tubes because they have to be in pairs and also matching...what is the result if they are not?
 In the EF1 i have to get only one tube. I am just doing some investigation before pulling the trigger, thanks for your help guys._

 

I don't think the tubes for Woo 6 have to be "matched." Just make sure they are same brand/construction with similar manufacture date.

 Also, if you are looking for a "tubey" sound, I don't think Woo 6 is it.


----------



## plonter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think the tubes for Woo 6 have to be "matched." Just make sure they are same brand/construction with similar manufacture date.

 Also, if you are looking for a "tubey" sound, I don't think Woo 6 is it._

 

I was just about to say that I am afraid that it won't match my taste (I am a basshead)...I read a lot of comment say that the WA6 is on the bright side of things.
 I didn't know that tube amps supposed to sound bright, I thought that it is exactly the opposite. the main reason I want to upgrade my EF1 (that was a very nice introduction to tubes) is because although it sound nice it still have some SS sound to it. 

 too bad though...the WA6 looks cool and the price is just on the spot for me.
 but I guess I will have to look elsewhere.


----------



## musicmind

The WA6 is not "bright" at all...please dont confuse "bright" as being the oppoiste of "tubey"...the WA6 is just not the stereotypical overly lush kind of sound that most might associate with tube amps. It has subtle tube smoothness, while still having a detailed sound...but never bright or harsh.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good question. I wonder if it does stress the rectifier a bit more than the 6DE7 or 6EW7?_

 

According to Takezo the 6DE7 does draw more current, but then the Sophia also draws less current than the stock 5U4G rectifier, so who knows. I'm no EE, and Jack doesn't seem to want to elaborate.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys,would you say that the WA6 with the princess and the PDPS is to the warm kind if sound between it and other tube amps?_

 

The stock rectifier is much warmer than the Sophia. The Sophia brings an airier, more soundstageous presentation, as well as more dynamics. The EML improves on soundstaging yet again.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What a good news, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got 5 pairs 6FD7 but may be I'm with luck, never heard any pop, crack noise ever in the last hundreds of hrs when listen with them no matter which brand. TBH, I love the impactful, dynamic and punchy sound from the 6FD7s. Now a pair of Raytheon 6EW7 is sitting in the 6SE, thinking it's time to start collect some more NOS 6EW7 by now even I already have 2 pairs now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I would like to know how the 6FD7s damage the 6SE? Does anyone can share some idea of this point that would be much appreciate._

 

I would very much like to know that also, but Jack didn't want to get into the details with me over email. This is all he would say on the topic:

  Quote:


 As mentioned earlier, nothing to be worried if the sound is normal. If you hear poping noise with 6DE7 and 6EW7 or you smell a burn inside the amp, a damage might have been done. When that happens, some caps could be exploded. 
 

Regardless, IMO the Raytheon 6EW7s are *almost* as good as the Sylvania 6FD7s, and when combined with a naturally punchy headphone like the HF-2, they really sing.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just about to say that I am afraid that it won't match my taste (I am a basshead)...I read a lot of comment say that the WA6 is on the bright side of things._

 

If you're hoping for the amp to "inject" bass into the sound, the Woo's wont do it. Likewise, they're not overly warm or "tubey" amps. They're very refined, have a light touch, handle fast transients as well as most SS amps I've heard, and present music in a mostly unadulterated, dynamic fashion, that is nonetheless possessed of just a hint of tube magic.

 If you want something very warm or euphonic, my recommendation is an Earmax.


----------



## plonter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA6 is not "bright" at all...please dont confuse "bright" as being the oppoiste of "tubey"...the WA6 is just not the stereotypical overly lush kind of sound that most might associate with tube amps. It has subtle tube smoothness, while still having a detailed sound...but never bright or harsh._

 

I am currently looking for the overly warm tubey sound,so the WA6 is probably not the right one for me.
 When i said bright, I didn't apply that it is harsh or something...(I am sure it is not ,it is a high quality amp from what I read) but bright as less warm from other tube amps.

 covenant, I will check the earmax..thanks for the tip.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA6 is not "bright" at all...please dont confuse "bright" as being the oppoiste of "tubey"...the WA6 is just not the stereotypical overly lush kind of sound that most might associate with tube amps. It has subtle tube smoothness, while still having a detailed sound...but never bright or harsh._

 

Totally agree with you my friend


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *plonter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am currently looking for the overly warm tubey sound,so the WA6 is probably not the right one for me.
 When i said bright, I didn't apply that it is harsh or something...(I am sure it is not ,it is a high quality amp from what I read) but bright as less warm from other tube amps.

 covenant, I will check the earmax..thanks for the tip._

 

The ASL MG Head DT/OTL MKIII is one amp I have heard that had the warm tubey sound. From the impressions of Skylab and BushGuy, another amp you might want to look at is the Ming-Da MC84-C07.

 The Earmax is a lovely amp too from what I've read, but never had the occasion to hear one personally.


----------



## sillysally

This is kinda weird. I ordered a EML 274B from TubesUsa (George).

 Dropped the EML 274B into my WA6SE maxxed. The tube sounded great with the GE 6EW7s I am using now. But when I looked at the plates in the EML 272B they didn't look like mesh plates, they looked like solid plates. E-Mailed George he E-Mailed me right back and said the tube is a solid plate. 
 Bottom line, is that I failed to ask for a mesh plate, he will replace the solid plate with a mesh plate. Very nice guy. 

 Does anybody have any thoughts on the difference between the solid plate and the mesh plate?

 ss


----------



## Covenant

By the way, if any of you WA6 owners want my set of Sylvania 6FD7s for the cost of shipping, they're yours. I can't use them, after all. Just keep in mind I'm in Aus, so if you're in the US the cost of shipping would likely be more than they're worth


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, if any of you WA6 owners want my set of Sylvania 6FD7s for the cost of shipping, they're yours. I can't use them, after all. Just keep in mind I'm in Aus, so if you're in the US the cost of shipping would likely be more than they're worth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would be interested depending on the cost for using cheap airmail to US, to try with my non-SE WA6, but I would say give the other guys a chance at them first.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, if any of you WA6 owners want my set of Sylvania 6FD7s for the cost of shipping, they're yours. I can't use them, after all. Just keep in mind I'm in Aus, so if you're in the US the cost of shipping would likely be more than they're worth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd certainly be interested in them, even though my WA6 (not SE) is still some weeks in the future (ordered a week ago) Would you ship airmail to Mexico City?

 Cheers!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, if any of you WA6 owners want my set of Sylvania 6FD7s for the cost of shipping, they're yours. I can't use them, after all. Just keep in mind I'm in Aus, so if you're in the US the cost of shipping would likely be more than they're worth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I feel bad that you're not able to use them. Too bad there isn't a simple mod that would make them compatible with the SE.


----------



## takezo

if convenant's 6FD7 are large bottle version then it won't fit in the older wa6 units with
 the smaller socket housing. i think the newer units have the larger diameter to use the
 fat bottles...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if convenant's 6FD7 are large bottle version then it won't fit in the older wa6 units with
 the smaller socket housing. i think the newer units have the larger diameter to use the
 fat bottles..._

 

My 1.5 year old 6 has the larger diameter cutouts. I'm sure all since mine have the same.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 1.5 year old 6 has the larger diameter cutouts. I'm sure all since mine have the same._

 

thanks for the clarification. 

 going off into a tangent, i don't see how a 0.925A current draw from the 6FD7
 can be classified as potentially damaging whereas the 6DE7 and 6EW7, which
 both draw 0.9A, is safe... if so, there's not much room for error. it's too bad
 jack won't elaborate on the nature of the issue... i'm inclined to believe that
 it's more a gain issue, too much of which can lead to clipping, which is known 
 to cause arcing/popping, which can kill the tube, which can lead to taking
 the immediate capacitors and resistors out with it, which can lead to catastrophic 
 failure at the output or power transformers... it makes some sense because jack 
 says the 6FD7 is alright for the low gain wa6 unit but not for the wa6 se with the
 higher gain output. and if it's a transformer issue i'm not inclined to think the
 wa6 has better or higher specs than the SE unit...


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd certainly be interested in them, even though my WA6 (not SE) is still some weeks in the future (ordered a week ago) Would you ship airmail to Mexico City?

 Cheers!_

 

I would prefer someone who already owns a WA6, to be honest. HeadphoneAddict's WA6 seems to only accept the thin-bottle 6FD7s (mine are fat-bottle), so the offer's still out there


----------



## rated1975

any chance of posting a pic?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would prefer someone who already owns a WA6, to be honest. HeadphoneAddict's WA6 seems to only accept the thin-bottle 6FD7s (mine are fat-bottle), so the offer's still out there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any chance of posting a pic?_

 

These aren't of my set, but this shows the size of the fat bottle 6FD7


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These aren't of my set, but this shows the size of the fat bottle 6FD7

 [ig]http://oldtube.com/Sylvania-6FD7-1.jpg[/img]_

 

I will take it if still available. It will be for backup so if anyone want it for primary, please ship it to other person. Shipping will be to Cambridge, MA.

 TIA


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would prefer someone who already owns a WA6, to be honest. HeadphoneAddict's WA6 seems to only accept the thin-bottle 6FD7s (mine are fat-bottle), so the offer's still out there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok, no problem.

 cheers!


----------



## Covenant

It seems that rated1975's WA6 will accomodate the fat-bottles, and since he's also an Aussie and stands to benefit the most I'll be sending them his way.


----------



## the_equalizer

Hi guys:

 After ordering your amp with Jack, did you get any e-mail from him during the build process or was it complete silence until the shipping notification ? Sorry but the wait is killing me !

 cheers!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys:

 After ordering your amp with Jack, did you get any e-mail from him during the build process or was it complete silence until the shipping notification ? Sorry but the wait is killing me !

 cheers!_

 

Complete silence until I emailed him 5 weeks into the build asking him when I should expect delivery. He promptly responded Hi Glenn, It should be done this week". And it was


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I never receive any progress update till I asked for both my WA6 and WA6SE.


----------



## rated1975

no email from jack during the build process, but he's so true to his word when it comes to the delivery timeframe. if you cant take it any longer, email him..... like i did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys:

 After ordering your amp with Jack, did you get any e-mail from him during the build process or was it complete silence until the shipping notification ? Sorry but the wait is killing me !

 cheers!_


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It looks like 6SE owners are giving up the 6FD7 tubes for the safety of the amp. Mine is off the amp and ready to build spider web soon.


----------



## peanuthead

Has Jack elaborated on why or how the 6FD7 is not good for the 6SE? I haven't heard of any 6SE damage/failure due to the 6FD7, so it seems the overall risk of real damage is low.
 I never liked the 6FD7 with the 6SE because the gain was too high, and it raised the noise floor...I never heard any crackling or loud noise though.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Complete silence until I emailed him 5 weeks into the build asking him when I should expect delivery. He promptly responded Hi Glenn, It should be done this week". And it was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never receive any progress update till I asked for both my WA6 and WA6SE._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no email from jack during the build process, but he's so true to his word when it comes to the delivery timeframe. if you cant take it any longer, email him..... like i did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Me too.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has Jack elaborated on why or how the 6FD7 is not good for the 6SE? I haven't heard of any 6SE damage/failure due to the 6FD7, so it seems the overall risk of real damage is low.
 I never liked the 6FD7 with the 6SE because the gain was too high, and it raised the noise floor...I never heard any crackling or loud noise though._

 

No, he has only mention the 6FD7 is only for WA6 but the SE version, that's it. I have the 6FD7s in my 6SE for months and never heard any clipping, cracking or any kind of noise at all even with the volume all the way up.

 For any kind of risk or possible damage when use the 6FD7 in 6SE, takezo said

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_going off into a tangent, i don't see how a 0.925A current draw from the 6FD7
 can be classified as potentially damaging whereas the 6DE7 and 6EW7, which
 both draw 0.9A, is safe... if so, there's not much room for error. it's too bad
 jack won't elaborate on the nature of the issue... i'm inclined to believe that
 it's more a gain issue, too much of which can lead to clipping, which is known 
 to cause arcing/popping, which can kill the tube, which can lead to taking
 the immediate capacitors and resistors out with it, which can lead to catastrophic 
 failure at the output or power transformers... it makes some sense because jack 
 says the 6FD7 is alright for the low gain wa6 unit but not for the wa6 se with the
 higher gain output. and if it's a transformer issue i'm not inclined to think the
 wa6 has better or higher specs than the SE unit..._


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Complete silence until I emailed him 5 weeks into the build asking him when I should expect delivery. He promptly responded Hi Glenn, It should be done this week". And it was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never receive any progress update till I asked for both my WA6 and WA6SE._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no email from jack during the build process, but he's so true to his word when it comes to the delivery timeframe. if you cant take it any longer, email him..... like i did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks guys! Now I know what to expect. I'll just have to sit tight for the next two weeks then. I'll e-mail him if I haven't heard from him after the three weeks build time. Thanks again!

 cheers!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys! Now I know what to expect. I'll just have to sit tight for the next two weeks then. I'll e-mail him if I haven't heard from him after the three weeks build time. Thanks again!

 cheers!_

 

BTW, congrats on your Woo purchase. Welcome to the club


----------



## atbglenn

[size=medium]Here's an idea. How about if Jack came out with a single chassis super WA6 utilizing a true dual power supply (two power transformers, rectifiers, chokes, etc.) about the physical size of the WA2? Also with multiple inputs. I'd buy one. What do you guys think??[/size]


----------



## dannie01

Hey Glenn, do you mean a single chassis WA6SE with multiple inputs?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn, do you mean a single chassis WA6SE with multiple inputs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not exactly. The SE uses a pseudo dual PS, not a true one. But yeah, kind of like the SE, but better


----------



## dannie01

Oh yes, my mistake, 6SE is not a true dual power supply.


----------



## atbglenn

Hey Danny,

 Isn't it late on your side of the world


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's an idea. How about if Jack came out with a single chassis super WA6 utilizing a true dual power supply (two power transformers, rectifiers, chokes, etc.) about the physical size of the WA2? Also with multiple inputs. I'd buy one. What do you guys think??_

 

the WA4?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_don't you mean the WA4?_

 

Hey Doug,

 The WA4 uses completely different tubes . I guess it would look similar. I thought Jack was discontinuing that model?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But yeah, kind of like the SE, but better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

What is this impossibility of which ye speak? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that my 6SE is fully burned in and running the EML 5U4G mesh/Raytheon 6EW7 combo, I really couldn't imagine better. Logic would state that a WA5-LE or a WA22 running balanced should top it, but I don't hear any shortcomings audially to be able to grasp the concept.


----------



## sillysally

What made you guys go with a EML 5UG4 Mesh Rectifier Tube, for your 6se. Over the EML 274B Mesh Rectifier Tube?

 ss


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What made you guys go with a EML 5UG4 Mesh Rectifier Tube, for your 6se. Over the EML 274B Mesh Rectifier Tube?

 ss_

 

Jack recommended it. I imagine both would likely work equally well, but the amp was designed for the 5U4G after all.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack recommended it. I imagine both would likely work equally well, but the amp was designed for the 5U4G after all._

 

X2, that is the reason I ordered the EML 5U4G from Jack as my failed SP replacement.


----------



## omoanya

Probably a silly newb question, but I searched and didn't see mention of people using a Western Electric 274B in place of the stock rectifier. Aside from the outrageous pricing and difficulty finding them, is there a reason why one wouldn't put them in one's WA6se ? I'm curious, if anyone has, what does it sound like ?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aside from the outrageous pricing and difficulty finding them, is there a reason why one wouldn't put them in one's WA6se ? I'm curious, if anyone has, what does it sound like ?_

 

The price is the main reason everyone steers clear, methinks. A tube is a consumable, after all, and not many can justify a consumable thats as expensive as the amp


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably a silly newb question, but I searched and didn't see mention of people using a Western Electric 274B in place of the stock rectifier. Aside from the outrageous pricing and difficulty finding them, is there a reason why one wouldn't put them in one's WA6se ? I'm curious, if anyone has, what does it sound like ?_

 

It is my understanding that the EML 274B mesh plate, is a copy of the old western electric but a lot less expensive. And the EML 274B glass is hand blown. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack recommended it. I imagine both would likely work equally well, but the amp was designed for the 5U4G after all._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2, that is the reason I ordered the EML 5U4G from Jack as my failed SP replacement._

 


 You guys always tempting me, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll can't resist to order one shortly but wondering where or who is best to place my order with one year warranty? Jack or EML or any recommendation?

 Covenant, would you please share some impression with your current combo and differs by using SP 274B and EML, thanks.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Covenant, would you please share some impression with your current combo and differs by using SP 274B and EML, thanks._

 

I didn't get to compare the two directly this weekend, things got busy and all my listening time I wanted to be casual listening rather than critical. To be honest its difficult to motivate myself to roll the EML out and the Sophia back in, as well. For the HF-2, the EML/Raytheon 6EW7 combo is perfect. The Sylvania 6DE7's were slightly _more perfect_, if such a thing exists, but alas, I have to make do.

 On a purely casual listening basis, I noticed that treble clarity and smoothness increased, imaging accuracy increased, and the soundstage may be a bit more 3-dimensional and enveloping. Takezo remarked that he finds the EML to be more polite in the bass than the Sophia, but so far with the naturally bassy HF-2 I haven't found this to be the case, bass quantity and quality seems unchanged.


----------



## Torero

The EML 247b and Sophia 274b. I have both. They are very different. The EML give more detail, clarity and realistic sound. I think that The bass is better too. The Sophia is more musical with less hardness, more smooth.

 Soon, I will to can compare the EML 274b vs the EML 5U4G. In appearance they are very similar but Jack Woo said me that the EML 5U4G is her favorite. As well they are electrically different.

 My favorite combinationis EML 274b + Tung Sol Round Plate 6SN7GT. Tremendous clarity, resolution and detail. Great soundstage and more air.These Tung Sol have the same bass than the Ken Rand Vt-231. In combination with The Sen HD800 is amazing.

 (excuse my english)


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EML 247b and Sophia 274b. I have both. They are very different. The EML give more detail, clarity and realistic sound. I think that The bass is better too. The Sophia is more musical with less hardness, more smooth.

 Soon, I will to can compare the EML 274b vs the EML 5U4G. In appearance they are very similar but Jack Woo said me that the EML 5U4G is her favorite. As well they are electrically different.

 My favorite combinationis EML 274b + Tung Sol Round Plate 6SN7GT. Tremendous clarity, resolution and detail. Great soundstage and more air.These Tung Sol have the same bass than the Ken Rand Vt-231. In combination with The Sen HD800 is amazing.

 (excuse my english)_

 

I agree. I also have the Sophia 274b mesh plate, and for one night I had the EML 274b solid plate. The soundstage and bass with the EML 274B solid plate was wonderful. Also the background detail was better, I was hearing things I have never heard before. 
 However I sent back the EML 274B solid plate, because I wanted the ELM 274B mesh plate. I should have the new EML 274B mesh this week. 
 I also have the Senn HD-800, and a maxxed 6SE that was made just after Jack upgraded this amp so the Sophia 274b mesh plate and the 6SE wouldn't have a compatibility problem. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't get to compare the two directly this weekend, things got busy and all my listening time I wanted to be casual listening rather than critical. To be honest its difficult to motivate myself to roll the EML out and the Sophia back in, as well. For the HF-2, the EML/Raytheon 6EW7 combo is perfect. The Sylvania 6DE7's were slightly more perfect, if such a thing exists, but alas, I have to make do.

 On a purely casual listening basis, I noticed that treble clarity and smoothness increased, imaging accuracy increased, and the soundstage may be a bit more 3-dimensional and enveloping. Takezo remarked that he finds the EML to be more polite in the bass than the Sophia, but so far with the naturally bassy HF-2 I haven't found this to be the case, bass quantity and quality seems unchanged._

 

Thanks Covenant, you have definitely answered which is better above.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EML 247b and Sophia 274b. I have both. They are very different. The EML give more detail, clarity and realistic sound. I think that The bass is better too. The Sophia is more musical with less hardness, more smooth.

 Soon, I will to can compare the EML 274b vs the EML 5U4G. In appearance they are very similar but Jack Woo said me that the EML 5U4G is her favorite. As well they are electrically different.

 My favorite combinationis EML 274b + Tung Sol Round Plate 6SN7GT. Tremendous clarity, resolution and detail. Great soundstage and more air.These Tung Sol have the same bass than the Ken Rand Vt-231. In combination with The Sen HD800 is amazing.

 (excuse my english)_

 

Great Torero, can't wait to hear your impression between the two EML, thanks. I have a pair of Tung Sol 6CY7 with higher gain output and let's see what that combo will sound.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. I also have the Sophia 274b mesh plate, and for one night I had the EML 274b solid plate. The soundstage and bass with the EML 274B solid plate was wonderful. Also the background detail was better, I was hearing things I have never heard before. 
 However I sent back the EML 274B solid plate, because I wanted the ELM 274B mesh plate. I should have the new EML 274B mesh this week. 
 I also have the Senn HD-800, and a maxxed 6SE that was made just after Jack upgraded this amp so the Sophia 274b mesh plate and the 6SE wouldn't have a compatibility problem. 

 ss_

 

Thanks guys for all your information about the differs between the SP & EML, I've got the quote from EML already and will asked for another from Jack for a one year warranty EML 5U4G.


----------



## omoanya

i need some advice, im trying to get my new wa6se maxxed perfectly dialed in for my listening needs (mostly salsa, latin jazz, roots drumming w/ some rock, hip hop and classical). Right now I am listening with 701s recabled and 650's stock. With the current setup of 6EW7's + Sophia, My 650's sound too muddy in the bass but perfect in the mids and top and my 701's sound perfect in the bass (tight and true color to my ears) but the high end is just a little too present and ever so slightly shrill - especially with the horns in latin music. I am trying to calculate my next move to find a happy medium, whether thats rolling the tubes, or springing for 880's, i am really not sure. probably have only about 100-200 hours of burn in on the WOO so maybe thats a factor i should consider ?
 thanks for any help


----------



## omoanya

Upon further contemplation, i realize the 701's would perfect if i could just dial down the treble a notch, is there an alternate to my tube setup that might do this ?
 thanks!


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omoanya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i need some advice, im trying to get my new wa6se maxxed perfectly dialed in for my listening needs (mostly salsa, latin jazz, roots drumming w/ some rock, hip hop and classical). Right now I am listening with 701s recabled and 650's stock. With the current setup of 6EW7's + Sophia, My 650's sound too muddy in the bass but perfect in the mids and top and my 701's sound perfect in the bass (tight and true color to my ears) but the high end is just a little too present and ever so slightly shrill - especially with the horns in latin music. I am trying to calculate my next move to find a happy medium, whether thats rolling the tubes, or springing for 880's, i am really not sure. probably have only about 100-200 hours of burn in on the WOO so maybe thats a factor i should consider ?
 thanks for any help_

 

the sound signature will change up to around 800 hrs. give or take 50+ hrs....
 no kidding. those blackgate caps fluctuate in sound quality more than any other
 caps in existence it seems. do the tube rolling or headphone buying after
 the burn-in process ends and the sound stabilizes. otherwise, you many find
 that what sounds great now may not be to your liking then, and vice-versa. 
 you should hear great improvement at around 300+ hrs., then it'll sound not 
 so hot, then great again, then not so hot, etc., etc... one thing i usually forget 
 to mention is the quality of the source. great source will reveal these changes 
 rather significantly. poor source may not reveal anything... 
 good luck and have fun.

 * and yes, even the sibilance may clear-up to your liking by then.


----------



## koven

quick question for you guys.. how long do you think the WA6 needs to "warm-up" before reaching full potential? i always listen a few minutes after turning it on... should i start warming it up instead?

 also, has anyone heard both wa3 and wa6? im thinking of downgrading to the wa3 so i can put more money into my speakers


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_quick question for you guys.. how long do you think the WA6 needs to "warm-up" before reaching full potential? i always listen a few minutes after turning it on... should i start warming it up instead?

 also, has anyone heard both wa3 and wa6? im thinking of downgrading to the wa3 so i can put more money into my speakers_

 

Mine sounds a lot better after 30 minutes, but continues to improve for the first 2 hours.


----------



## Covenant

I don't bother with warm up, beyond about 5 minutes or so. It does sound progressively better as the first hour passes, but not to a significant enough degree that I'd want to wait for it before listening.


----------



## sillysally

+1 ^


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't bother with warm up, beyond about 5 minutes or so. It does sound progressively better as the first hour passes, but not to a significant enough degree that I'd want to wait for it before listening._

 

I can enjoy it after it's been on just 5 minutes, but mine makes big changes in sound in that first 30 minutes.


----------



## Torero

The EML 5U4G mesh plate arrived today. Now burn in it during some weeks. 

 Now I just found out my EML 274b is solid plate version, not a mesh plate. *Sillysally*, I hope your commentaries about the differences between versions.


----------



## sillysally

LOL, I made the same mistake and didn't specify mesh plate. But I saw it was a solid plate and got Greoge to do a exchange for the mesh plate + $20usd.

 I don't think there will be much differences between the solid and mesh plates. They are the same except for the plates.
 However I will report. And I hope to hear from you about the EML 5U4G.

 ss


----------



## omoanya

Thank you for the advice. While burning-in, i'm going to demo a set of ultrasone E8's and see what that sounds like because im still getting a low level buzz in my UE11's thats bugging me ..  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the sound signature will change up to around 800 hrs. give or take 50+ hrs....
 no kidding. those blackgate caps fluctuate in sound quality more than any other
 caps in existence it seems. do the tube rolling or headphone buying after
 the burn-in process ends and the sound stabilizes. otherwise, you many find
 that what sounds great now may not be to your liking then, and vice-versa. 
 you should hear great improvement at around 300+ hrs., then it'll sound not 
 so hot, then great again, then not so hot, etc., etc... one thing i usually forget 
 to mention is the quality of the source. great source will reveal these changes 
 rather significantly. poor source may not reveal anything... 
 good luck and have fun.

 * and yes, even the sibilance may clear-up to your liking by then._


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It was used for approx 3 months and no replacement from Jack but advised to sent to Sophia Electric which I did. The package has landed in US and awaiting for positive reply though.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still did not heard back from Sophia Electric after they received my failed tube for almost a week._

 

Have you receive any reply or replacement from Sophia Electric?


----------



## rated1975

Covenants 6fd7 fat bottles arrived yesterday and i promptly rolled them into the WA6, in combination with the Sophia 274b. Major and immediate differences between 6fd7 and 6ew7 are increased gain, (now listening around 11-12 o’clock, compared with 12-1 with 6ew7), and the low end has significantly increased, extending lower and louder, creating a tighter, deeper and fuller sound. There has been no discernible differences in soundstage or instrument separation.

 The tubes also give an overall sense of much more power and authority with the 701s, whereas swapping back to the 6ew7s made the 701’s sound slightly tinny and “less full”. 

 For our beloved and partially high-freq challenged friend glenn (atbglenn), the high end is less pronounced with the 6fd7’s, taking away a “sometimes” subtly harsh edge from the 701’s, and making the overall sound spectrum much more level/flat, also assisted by the increase to the low end. I wouldn’t say either tube has a better top end than the other, its probably a question of personal preference, where I would easily pick the 6fd7’s for most of my listening.

 Overall IMHO the 6fd7s have significantly improved the WA6/701 combination. I look forward to many more hours of enjoyment with them. Finally, a thanks to covenant for a smooth and easy transaction.


----------



## rated1975




----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you receive any reply or replacement from Sophia Electric?_

 

No reply or response from Sophia Electric. Go check your mailbox daily and there maybe a surprise for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least it did surprise me couple days ago and I'm a happy camper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I will be getting the EML 5U4G from Jack in couple weeks and have the SP as backup.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I sent Sue of SE an email and she replied that they have not receive my tube yet..


----------



## jc9394

Do you have tracking number? I did send it to Sue of SP too and she replace it after 5 days of received my failed one.


----------



## jc9394

I did noticed the glass is a lot clearer than the one I original got from Jack.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have tracking number? I did send it to Sue of SP too and she replace it after 5 days of received my failed one._

 

Yup. It was sent via registered parcel and reached US on September 27. Hope they received soon.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did noticed the glass is a lot clearer than the one I original got from Jack._

 

Could that be a different quality or batch?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup. It was sent via registered parcel and reached US on September 27. Hope they received soon.



 Could that be a different quality or batch?_

 

It probably takes few more days as it have to clear custom. Give it until next Wednesday and email Sue again.

 I think it is a different batch, once I opened I noticed right away the glass looks different. I put in about 3 hours of burn in last night and it did sound much better than the stock tube even SP is not fully burn in yet. The soundstage and super smooth Diana Krall vocal is back.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It probably takes few more days as it have to clear custom. Give it until next Wednesday and email Sue again.

 I think it is a different batch, once I opened I noticed right away the glass looks different. I put in about 3 hours of burn in last night and it did sound much better than the stock tube even SP is not fully burn in yet. The soundstage and super smooth Diana Krall vocal is back._

 

Thanks and keeping my fingers crossed...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 For our beloved and partially high-freq challenged friend glenn (atbglenn), the high end is less pronounced with the 6fd7’s, taking away a “sometimes” subtly harsh edge from the 701’s, and making the overall sound spectrum much more level/flat, also assisted by the increase to the low end. I wouldn’t say either tube has a better top end than the other, its probably a question of personal preference, where I would easily pick the 6fd7’s for most of my listening._

 

Thanks for not mentioning the mentally challenged part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL!! Glad you like the 6FD7's


----------



## koven

hey guys, im thinking about selling my WA6 for a LD MKVII

 i know i will also need a balanced cable & DAC, but just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on balanced vs SE

 what differences will i be hearing with my HD600?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, im thinking about selling my WA6 for a LD MKVII_

 

Psh, if you want to go balanced, go WA22


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks and keeping my fingers crossed..._

 

Just got a reply from Sue, the tubes is received an replacement is on its way.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got a reply from Sue, the tubes is received an replacement is on its way._

 

Nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We have thank Jack to put pressure on SE.

*[size=xx-large]Thanks Jack...[/size]*


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Psh, if you want to go balanced, go WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

and if you want to stay single-ended, go for a WA5-LE!


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and if you want to stay single-ended, go for a WA5-LE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

and when you finally wake up and see the light, you can purchase a WES


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and when you finally wake up and see the light, you can purchase a WES 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL


----------



## Covenant

We're an evil bunch, aren't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to say though, now that my WA6SE has surpassed 800hrs, and its using the Raytheon 6EW7/EML 5U4G combo, I've never heard anything sound this good. The 6SE with the HF-2 could very easily be my "end of the road" setup. The only comparable rig I've heard was a Meridian G07 > 007t > Omega 2 system, which costs basically 3x my setup.


----------



## wink

Does this mean you don't want to hear my Ergo AMT...????? (chortle)..


----------



## takezo

covenant, if you want to make use of the 6fd7 on your wa6SE amp, this is all you need
 to have done on it. replace the circled capacitors with one rated at 200volts. the ones
 in your amp now is rated at 100v only. you're hearing the crackling/popping
 sound when the voltage at the cathode plate exceed the rating of the cap.

 the capacitance value should be similar at 470uf. it's not crucial that it is the same
 but within 40% of the value is recommended. this cap influences the SQ 
 immensely, so getting one of high quality is important. panasonic TS-ED series 
 caps are excellent. (if you're using blackgates, then the non-polar N-series is
 highly recommended. it's a 220uf/160v cap.)

 any competant technician can do this in less than 30 minutes.
 or have it sent in back to wooaudio to make use of the warranty.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We're an evil bunch, aren't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to say though, now that my WA6SE has surpassed 800hrs, and its using the Raytheon 6EW7/EML 5U4G combo, I've never heard anything sound this good. The 6SE with the HF-2 could very easily be my "end of the road" setup. The only comparable rig I've heard was a Meridian G07 > 007t > Omega 2 system, which costs basically 3x my setup._

 


 Absolutely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'm still waiting my 6SE to have 800 hrs for the BG burn-in and now with 650 hrs marked. Good to hear you have commented the combo sounds great.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wink* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this mean you don't want to hear my Ergo AMT...????? (chortle).._

 

No, and you stay away from me with them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the ones
 in your amp now is rated at 100v only. you're hearing the crackling/popping
 sound when the voltage at the cathode plate exceed the rating of the cap._

 

Thanks for figuring out what the cause of the incompatability was, Takezo. Tbh I'm content with my Raytheons for now - they're not quite as good as the Sylvania 6FD7s, but they come close. With Sennheisers the 6FD7s are much preferable, but the HF-2 is naturally very punchy anyway, and doesn't need any extra dynamics from the 6FD7.

 Although, should I be concerned about those two caps? What effect would running them over-voltage cause? I know Singlepower amps ran basically every component over-volted and they were still good for a year or more, and I've only used 6FD7s for maybe 4hrs total, but still I worry.


----------



## takezo

concerned? no, unless you hear the noise with other tubes as well...
 but, i'd use the wooaudio warranty, if it applies, to have it changed out to a pair that
 can handle any job. i've done many measurements and most are showing
 70 - 80 volts there. doubling that to at least 150v should remedy that
 issue once and for all. you really should get it done, by a technician there
 or thru wooaudio. the caps are very cheap, like $3, unless you go exotic like the
 blackgates.


----------



## shellylh

Ok... I just noticed that the glass on the pair of SP 274B's in my WA5-LE is significantly darker than glass on the SP 300B's in the amp. I got both sets at the same time from Jack in early April. The 274B's still work fine but are sort of smoked glass instead of clear glass (I will take a picture in daylight). I have to admit that I was busy and didn't pay much attention to the "bad batch" of SP 274B's that people were talking about before. Should the 274B's darken over such a short time? (I don't use the Woo that much since I on an average day, I just turn on the GS-1 because I am not doing critical listening. They do have a couple hundred hours on them probably though.) Also, I guess I will test them tomorrow to see how they are holding up. Perhaps it is time for a pair of EML Mesh 5U4G.


----------



## takezo

the glass darkening seems to be the norm for the sophia 274b type. try not to turn the
 amp on and off excessively, as the tubes take the most stress during switch-on phase.


----------



## wink

Originally posted by *Covenant*
  Quote:


 No, and you stay away from me with them! 
 

Hear them, you know you want to....... (tee hee).


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but, i'd use the wooaudio warranty, if it applies, to have it changed out to a pair that
 can handle any job._

 

Well, the thing is, I'd want to send it back to Woo to preserve the warranty, which means international shipping. And my 6SE has the premium parts, so those two caps would need to be replaced with comparable Blackgates. And my 6FD7s were sold at the cost of shipping to rated1975 (WA6 owner), so I'd need to buy another pair of those too.

 Too much expense and effort at this point. I'm not even sure Jack would offer to do the replacement free of charge, as the amp is working properly with the recommended tubes for it, after all.


----------



## shellylh

I was just looking at the thread on the EML 274B and SP 274B and had a question. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/emi...5/#post4618513

 Here Jon L says that you shouldn't buy a 274B for a 300B amp. Can someone confirm this. It is an upgrade tube option on the WA5 and WA5LE page. I bought them directly with the WA5-LE and cannot imagine that Jack would recommend a tube that shouldn't be used with it. 

 I guess this means I should look into getting a pair of 5U4G's. I just know if it is worth paying $400+ for a pair of EML Mesh 5U4G's - even though they are pretty sweet looking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any other recommendations for new or NOS 5U4G's for the WA5-LE that don't cost that much? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"NOS 5U4G" doesn't really tell you much. Which one? 

 The good 5U4G's are never harsh, and something like RCA coke-bottle top-getter 5U4G sounds far preferable to solid-plate Sophia 274B IME. As far as mesh 274B's, they'll work for low-power applications, but they have far lower current rating than solid-plates, so don't buy them for your 300B amps, for example._


----------



## takezo

well, the solid plate is rated for 160ma whereas the mesh is rated for only 90ma. i believe
 the latter is within the operating points of the wa5-le. if it wasn't, you'd know about it
 pretty quickly after turning on the amp. ask jack for confirmation though. the 300b 
 does seem to be recommended with the solid plate over the mesh plate, but i'm not sure
 what set up it's being implemented in.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Covenants 6fd7 fat bottles arrived yesterday and i promptly rolled them into the WA6, in combination with the Sophia 274b. Major and immediate differences between 6fd7 and 6ew7 are increased gain, (now listening around 11-12 o’clock, compared with 12-1 with 6ew7), and the low end has significantly increased, extending lower and louder, creating a tighter, deeper and fuller sound. There has been no discernible differences in soundstage or instrument separation._

 

11-12 o'clock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I use RCA fat bottle 6fd7s on my WA6 SE and anything past 9 o'clock is way too loud for my comfort (measuring around 100-110dB on the SPL meter). Around 8 o'clock is about 75-80dB.

 Simon


----------



## sillysally

I had a EML 274B solid plate and sent it back for a EML mesh plate both nib. 

 I only had the solid plate for one night. However I almost kept it because the sound was wonderful. It sounded like how this reverer described it. (see link)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4615901-post1.html 

 I now have the EML 274B mesh plate in my WA6SE maxxed.

 At first there was very little differences between the SP 274B. 
 After about 7 hours of use (not continuous) the soundstage started to improve but still no wear near that of the EML 274B solid plate. Also the tonal quality started to improve. 

 So for some reason it would seem that the EML 274B solid plate doesn't need much break-in. And I am hoping the EML mesh after some break-in will be at least as good as the EML 247B solid plate.

 ss


----------



## immtbiker

I am a proud owner of one of the first Woo Audio GES stat amps after holding onto the prototype, and I will be receiving a shiny new balanced WES with upgraded "tubery" in November (fingers crossed).
 I was holding onto Jack's one and only WES until Wednesday morning when it had to be packed up and shipped to Colorado for RMAF.

 I consider this amp the WA5SE of the electrostatic world. Built like a brick sheet house, aesthetically beautiful, and has the sound output of a choir of angels who also like to rock and roll, and jazzercise.

 The output of this amp is second to none, and I hope that I can do side by side comparisons to the Thunderbolt, the Blue Hawaii, the Aristaeus and the (nevermind ES1/2).

 Hopefully, before I plunk down cash that I don't actually have (nothing new, in my life), I'll get to compare it to a Thunderbolt and a Blue Hawaii at the November's NYC Annual Fall meet.

 I'm thinking that it should be a notch above the HEV-70 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was listening to some late 60's early 70's Hot Tuna - "Live at Sweetwaters" this week and it was bringing tears to my eyes. The bass was packed better than a Pastrami Sandwich at the Carnegie Deli in Times Square. 
 The air and the separation between the instrument and vocals was some of the best that I've ever heard on a stat amp.
 It was indeed a religious experience. I thought that I saw a silhouette of Jesus in the shadows of the stepped attenuator volume control.

 I also own 2 Jack Woo headphone stands...does that count, in this "unite" thread?

 All kidding aside, Mr. Wu and Co. make outstanding, problem free components that should endure a lifetime of Head-Fi abuse.


----------



## jamato8

Enjoying the WA 6 with the very modified PDPS and the Grado HF2.


----------



## sillysally

Here is a quote from Jack about tubes in are WA6 and WA6SE.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5179633-post791.html

 ss


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 So for some reason it would seem that the EML 274B solid plate doesn't need much break-in. And I am hoping the EML mesh after some break-in will be at least as good as the EML 247B solid plate.

 ss_

 

That's peculiar, that you're finding the 274B solid plate to be considerably better-sounding than the mesh. I'm no tube expert, but I seem to remember hearing that the mesh was the preferable of the two.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am a proud owner of one of the first Woo Audio GES stat amps after holding onto the prototype, and I will be receiving a shiny new balanced WES with upgraded "tubery" in November (fingers crossed).
 I was holding onto Jack's one and only WES until Wednesday morning when it had to be packed up and shipped to Colorado for RMAF.

 I consider this amp the WA5SE of the electrostatic world. Built like a brick sheet house, aesthetically beautiful, and has the sound output of a choir of angels who also like to rock and roll, and jazzercise.

 The output of this amp is second to none, and I hope that I can do side by side comparisons to the Thunderbolt, the Blue Hawaii, the Aristaeus and the (nevermind ES1/2).

 Hopefully, before I plunk down cash that I don't actually have (nothing new, in my life), I'll get to compare it to a Thunderbolt and a Blue Hawaii at the November's NYC Annual Fall meet.

 I'm thinking that it should be a notch above the HEV-70 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was listening to some late 60's early 70's Hot Tuna - "Live at Sweetwaters" this week and it was bringing tears to my eyes. The bass was packed better than a Pastrami Sandwich at the Carnegie Deli in Times Square. 
 The air and the separation between the instrument and vocals was some of the best that I've ever heard on a stat amp.
 It was indeed a religious experience. I thought that I saw a silhouette of Jesus in the shadows of the stepped attenuator volume control.

 I also own 2 Jack Woo headphone stands...does that count, in this "unite" thread?

 All kidding aside, Mr. Wu and Co. make outstanding, problem free components that should endure a lifetime of Head-Fi abuse._

 

I am quite pleased with the current WES prototype here at RMAF, which has been brought up to current production specs except for the lack of the 12AU7 phase splitter to get balanced operation from SE input. 

 I owned the prototype GES for about 3 days in summer 2008 before I plunked down the rest of the cash for a maxed GES with loop out and both normal/pro bias jacks. Now it looks like I want to sell my GES for a WES, as I think it works as well with my O2 Mk1 as Asr's KGBH SE does. The early WES at CanJan was not any more powerful than my GES, but now it has double the power and is just right.

 However, many people who listened to my maxed GES with O2 Mk1 here at RMAF all think the two have nice synergy (partly due to proper tube selection and DAC selection) and that I should be happy with it. I put $2490 into my GES, and I have no idea how much I can get for it now, so that will be the deciding factor. I half-seriously offered Jack my GES, WA6, K1000 and re-cabled RS-1 in trade for a new WES - he said he was disinclined to acquiesce to my request because he doesn't sell used stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (that's $6000 of stuff for a $5000 amp, but oh well, can't win everything)


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's peculiar, that you're finding the 274B solid plate to be considerably better-sounding than the mesh. I'm no tube expert, but I seem to remember hearing that the mesh was the preferable of the two._

 

The good news is the EML 274B mesh is starting to catch up to the EML 274B solid. 
 By next week this time, I should be able to tell if one is better than the other.
 Having the Premium parts upgrade package and the 
 DACT CT2 stepped attenuator, on paper my WA6SE should be a very good match with the EML 274B mesh.

 And yes I heard the same thing about mesh verses the solid plate.

 ss


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am working towards getting myself a EML 5U4G mesh plate.... Meanwhile I am awaiting for the SE274B replacement to arrive and very likely I gonna trade it off to finance the purchase of a EML. The second SE274B which I currently owned is also turning smokey.. I guess that should be from the same batch and hope the new replacement will be a better QC batch.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Enjoying the WA 6 with the very modified PDPS and the Grado HF2._

 

Want to know more, especially the super-e'ed power supply, thanks.


----------



## RayfromTX

Hi y'all
 I spent the weekend reading this thread and all it's offshoots along with a ton of other threads including one I started about what amp to buy for 600$ to power my new Grado GS1000i headphones. It's gotten completely out of hand and somebody needs to apologize for what is about to happen to my wallet. 

 OUCH!

 At this point, I'm up to around1600$ plus another maybe 400$ for a DAC; although, I'm sure somebody soon will convince me that it'll take alot more than that to do this setup justice.

 What I need help with is the WA2 vs. WA6SE w/upgrades question. I'm thinking all the upgrades except the stepped attenuator and the Sophia Princess tube. I'll get the current consensus when the time comes, probably a 5U4G or a EML 274B. It depends on what amp I end up with.

 So what should I do? WA2 or WA6SE? I have to draw the line at 1600$. I'm leaning toward the WA6SE but the looks of the WA2 sure is sweet.

 Help me spend my money once with no regrets.


----------



## El_Doug

Consider splitting that $2000 into 50:50 Amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




AC. 

 Either the WA2 or WA6SE, with the GS1k, is a ridiculous headphone/amp combo to have pushing out sound from a cheaper source.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what should I do? WA2 or WA6SE? I have to draw the line at 1600$. I'm leaning toward the WA6SE but the looks of the WA2 sure is sweet._

 

The WA2 is OTL - "Output Transformerless", and as such is predominantly suited to high-impedance headphones. 

 The way I understand it, is that tubes excel at providing voltage swing, wheras transformers excel at providing current. Low-impedance loads (such as your 32 Ohm GS1000i) demand far more current than voltage, and thus benefit more from a transformer-coupled output.

 Short answer: I'd say the WA6SE would be better suited for you.


----------



## RayfromTX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Consider splitting that $2000 into 50:50 Amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




AC. 

 Either the WA2 or WA6SE, with the GS1k, is a ridiculous headphone/amp combo to have pushing out sound from a cheaper source._

 

What would you suggest, short of just upping the budget again? Any ideas on an appropriate DAC and maybe something for music storage?


 Covenant-
 I was thinking the same thing; although the 2 would probably drive my phones and the preamp capability and the look of the unit are both in it's favor. From what I've read though, you are right. From a straight sound performance perspective the WA6SE is the way to go.

 Having so much trouble deciding on this is what you would call a luxury problem, eh? I'm interested in the perspectives of those that have experience with these units. Thanks.


----------



## sillysally

RayfromTX, I use my Oppo BDP-83 as my source player for my CDs and SACD.
 Also the Oppo has two USB ports. Also its a great BD/DVD player. 

 ss


----------



## RayfromTX

I ordered the WA6SE maxxed out. I'll probably get the dacmagic to go with it. I saw a page where you can monitor the progress of your build but I can't find it anymore. Can anybody offer a link? The waiting begins.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered the WA6SE maxxed out. I'll probably get the dacmagic to go with it. I saw a page where you can monitor the progress of your build but I can't find it anymore. Can anybody offer a link? The waiting begins._

 

Congrats and welcome to the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've never heard of a build progress page though. Jack just quoted me a 4-week turnaround, I emailed him near the end asking for an update, and he let me know it was finished and would be shipped shortly.

 By the way, see if you can ask Jack for a set of fat-bottle Raytheon 6EW7s as your stock tubes. Considering the spacious nature of the GS1000 these should suit very well.

 Edit: DacMagic is also a good choice, although I've heard its USB input isn't as good as its coaxial. I've tested it using USB Vs the Pico and found it to be competetive, better in some areas and worse in others, but using it via coax might make it universally superior.


----------



## bdr529

I am happy to say that i have joined the club as well. Got a WA6-SE and a EML 5U4G coming my way in a few weeks. I would of got the SP but all these recent failures have scared me away.

 This wait is going to kill me...


----------



## RayfromTX

I was on the webpage and it showed all the builds in progress and those that were recently shipped. I just don't know how to get back to it.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered the WA6SE maxxed out. I'll probably get the dacmagic to go with it. I saw a page where you can monitor the progress of your build but I can't find it anymore. Can anybody offer a link? The waiting begins._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am happy to say that i have joined the club as well. Got a WA6-SE and a EML 5U4G coming my way in a few weeks. I would of got the SP but all these recent failures have scared me away.

 This wait is going to kill me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Congrats and welcome to the club, be enjoyed your new toy.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered the WA6SE maxxed out. I'll probably get the dacmagic to go with it. I saw a page where you can monitor the progress of your build but I can't find it anymore. Can anybody offer a link? The waiting begins._

 

Tell me about it... it's been a little more than 2 weeks since I ordered my silver WA6 (3 weeks build time) and I'm really finding it hard surviving the wait. These guys here talking about tube-rolling and how nice their Woo amps sound are not making it easier at all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've never heard of a 'build monitoring' webpage either. I'd assume that if one existed, Jack would provide the URL when ordering an amp.

 Enjoy the wait! (I had to go buy a set of Grado SR-225i's to actually ease the stress).

 cheers!


----------



## atbglenn

[size=medium]_To all you Woo newbie's, WELCOME!!_[/size]


----------



## fatcat28037

Who has experience with the Tong Sol 7236 NOS replacement power tubes in the WA2? I'm considering upgrading the 6080's but would like to read an opinion or two as to wether it's worth the $110.


----------



## dcp

Hi all,
 I'm a newbie around here. Just join the club by ordering the WA6SE yesterday. I can hardly wait. It's going to be a long five weeks


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 I'm a newbie around here. Just join the club by ordering the WA6SE yesterday. I can hardly wait. It's going to be a long five weeks _

 

Welcome2daCLUB.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 I'm a newbie around here. Just join the club by ordering the WA6SE yesterday. I can hardly wait. It's going to be a long five weeks _

 


 Congrats on your new Woo


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 I'm a newbie around here. Just join the club by ordering the WA6SE yesterday. I can hardly wait. It's going to be a long five weeks _

 

Welcome! The Woo amp is worth waiting.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 I'm a newbie around here. Just join the club by ordering the WA6SE yesterday. I can hardly wait. It's going to be a long five weeks _

 

congrats on your purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 indeed, waiting for my WES has been the hardest 5 weeks of my life... hopefully no more than 2 weeks more!


----------



## Suprfly2k

I'm two weeks into the four week build for my maxxed 6SE with EML274b mesh. My 701's are about 400 hours in...sounding great. What is the general process for the Woo break-in?


----------



## sillysally

Just enjoy your new Woo, and don't leave it on anymore than 8 hours at a time.



 ss


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm two weeks into the four week build for my maxxed 6SE with EML274b mesh. My 701's are about 400 hours in...sounding great. What is the general process for the Woo break-in?_

 

HeadphoneAddict and Takezo both commented that they heard changes in their amps up until the 800hr mark (maxxed units with blackgates, that is). I'm not entirely sure I cotton on to the belief that break in will take that long, but I diligently burned mine in for 800hrs anyway


----------



## sillysally

I think I am getting a good idea of where my EML 274B mesh is going after about 50 hours of use. . 
 And comparing the EML to the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier. 

 imo the EML has a better soundstage. The biggest difference is a 3D effect. 
 The right to left, is a little longer.
 The front to back is deeper. 
 The top to bottom is higher. 
 The bass impact is also better, with the EML. 

 However the Princes is more natural and a little faster. And is probably a better tube for the purists. 
 Where the EML excels is with a good stereo 2ch downmix for HD soundtracks from BD movies. Or for something like The Beatles Sgr. Peppers new remastered CD. With these two examples the EML really excels because of the 3D effect/soundstage and bass impact. When I say bass impact I don't mean that the bass is dominant because it is not. If anything the EML seems to pull Ringos riser back so you don't have the drums hitting you in the face. However when George's bass is highlighted, it is something to hear. 

 I have rolled many different 6EW7 tubes, and the one I keep going back to is the RCA big bottle (full metal top). I do have 2 pairs of Raytheon on the way, so if it turns out those are better I will post. 

 My rig is a WA6SE maxxed (well over 800 hours of use), pared with the senn HD-800s. My source player is a Oppo BDP-83. 

 ss


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tube "maintenance" is nothing really. Learn how to insert/remove them (aka, with straight downward pressure rather than rocking or rotating), keep them stored somewhere they wont get knocked about when not in use, and dont let people touch them when they're on and hot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and a year or so down the track when SQ starts to get overly warm, replace them. One advantage of the WA6/SE is that tubes are cheap - unless you're crazy like me and try to get the absolute best rectifier around._

 

Hi! I'm new to Woo. I got my WA6 three weeks ago. I was so impressed with it that I had to get another Woo. So I ordered the WA22 last week. I'm going to put the WA6 in the bedroom and the WA22 will be in the front room. I'm crazy. Actually crazy about Woo Audio. This is my first venture into serious tube headphone amps. When the WA6 arrived it was missing one of the 6DE7 tubes. Anticipating future tube rolling I had ordered a few 6CY7s before the WA6 arrived so I used those as my first pair of drivers. I had a hard time pushing the 6CY7 tubes straight down into its socket (as suggested by Covenant) without using a slight wiggle. Is this bad? It felt like if I had given it more pressure without rocking it a little it would have never inserted at all--or worse--they would have shattered!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Anyway, I'm glad there are a lot of Woo users out there! By the way, both are in silver.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a hard time pushing the 6CY7 tubes straight down into its socket (as suggested by Covenant) without using a slight wiggle. Is this bad?_

 

I suggested it because Takezo suggested it to me, who is the true tube guru 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I doubt a slight wiggle would cause any problems, particularly if its a case of that or potentially breaking glass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The idea is to minimise rocking motions so as not to loosen the retainers inside the tube sockets (the metal parts that clamp onto the tube pins).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suggested it because Takezo suggested it to me, who is the true tube guru 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I doubt a slight wiggle would cause any problems, particularly if its a case of that or potentially breaking glass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The idea is to minimise rocking motions so as not to loosen the retainers inside the tube sockets (the metal parts that clamp onto the tube pins)._

 

*WHEW!*





 Thanks. I mean, yah know, I'd hate to ruin a perfectly good little tube--or a set of fingers!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hello. I was wondering if anyone had photos of the insides of the WA22. I just ordered one and Jack mentioned to me in an email that there are no upgradeable parts for this model. I am curious as to what the stock WA22's insides look like. No matter what I bet it's awesome-looking!


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>
 When the WA6 arrived it was missing one of the 6DE7 tubes. 
 <snip>_

 

What do you mean it was missing a tube!? I'm expecting my WA6 to be shipped this week (the three week build time has elapsed) but this is slightly disturbing. Do you mean that it's possible that when my amp arrives I might not be able to use it!?!?

 Concerned regards,


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean it was missing a tube!? I'm expecting my WA6 to be shipped this week (the three week build time has elapsed) but this is slightly disturbing. Do you mean that it's possible that when my amp arrives I might not be able to use it!?!?

 Concerned regards,_

 

It did happen to me. The shipment came with everything in place. The amp and three boxes of tubes. The first tube box I opened contained the SEC 5U3C rectifier tube. A beauty. Then I opened the the first GE 6DE7 box and installed that tube. However the second GE 6DE7 box was empty. I thought it was strange but I noticed that the box was taped up on one side with very old discolored tape. I first looked all over my living room because that's where I unboxed the WA6. I was certain that the box was empty but just wanted to make sure it hadn't fallen out onto the floor or something like that. I didn't find it so I emailed Jack. He responded immediately.

 He said: "Can you please check if there is any tube in both side of the tube pockets? It is rare to have a missing tube in the package. I can send another tube if it is still missing. Just let me know the brand."

 I emailed him back: "I looked everywhere and can't find it. But don't send a replacement. I have enough spares lying around. Really, it's okay. Save the postage and energy."

 So it seemed like a fluke and I had the 6CY7 spares. But if I didn't have those spares, you're right, I would be with a nonworking amp. But I really think there must have been an empty box amongst those many tubes he has on hand. And he was ready to send me a replacement 6DE7 tube immediately.


----------



## Covenant

I don't think you need to be concerned, the_equalizer. As far as I know no one else has ever recieved their amp a tube short - it looks like a case of there being an empty box in Jack's stash that got packed into Clayton's shipment by mistake.

 Good thing you ordered a second set, Clayton!


----------



## Clayton SF

I know. It was like double excitement.

 NEW amp! Oh no! No tube! Oh wait. I have a second set! Yay!

 I believe, like Covenant said, it looks like a case of there being an empty box in Jack's stash.

 So enjoy your WA6 when it arrives!


----------



## dannie01

No worry about that, Jack is a good guy to deal with and responsive to solve any problem caused. I have my 6SE with additional tubes when ordered but the original stock tubes found missed packed with the amp when received. Reported to Jack and he offer refund immediately.


----------



## CandlePower

I'm entirely happy with my WA6. The sound is packed with magical tube-goodness. The soft glow of the vacuum tubes fills my spirit. Solid state may be great, but how's it gonna equal the warmth and the art-object factor of a Woo.

 If you have access to Rhapsody, or some other music subscription, check out "Big Sur Moon" by Buckethead. He did it on a classical guitar with what I assume to be digital delay. It's also panned in such a way that it makes 360 degree rotations around the sound field. I think it aptly demonstrates the capability of the Woo through K702's. There's an error in the playing that he left in the recording. I like that kind of confidence. It says 'Yeah, I make mistakes. Chill, I'm a virtuoso'.

 Another one is "'Olapa Ka Uila I Kane'ohe" by Keola Beamer. Very spacious. Crystal clear. I don't yet know all the technical terms, but I know what I like. Another beautiful example is "Ku'u Lei, Ku'u Ipo" by Hapa. A song about a guy who's been away and wondering if his love is still there for him. You probably haven't heard it if you're not in the islands. You don't need to understand the words. The feeling tells the story. If your not into Hawaiian music yet, you couldn't start in a better place. 

 I have a great CD called "Bedtime for Beethoven". It's all killer classic Ludvwig van, but track 6 takes hold of your mortal soul and asks you what the hell you're doing. It's amazing. "String Quartet No. 13 in B flat major ("Lieb"), Op. 130 Excerpt Composed by Ludwig van Beethoven Conducted by Kurt Masur". There are a couple of moments in there where the emotion is so deep and so profound it boggles the mind.

 "Sufficiently Breathless" by Captain Beyond is a good sleeper. Wait for the rolling acoustic guitar in the middle followed by the fuzzed lead guitar. Pure psychedilc bliss.

 "The Game of Love" by Carlos Santana, featuring Michelle Branch is also killer. When she sings 'Please tell me why', if the purity and clarity of her sweet voice doesn't make you double take, maybe you need to rethink how magical this song is, completely independnet of Carlos's soul tickling guitar.

 I haven't read all the recent posts, but I did see something about a "newbie to Woo". Maybe it's been said before now, but that would make a "Woobie".

 Wiggling the tube in order to facilitate insertion into the socket is a widely accepted and promoted practice among guitarists. Pulling a tube straight out or forcing it in without a little finesse is not how most Tube Masters approach the ritual of rolling. Gentle, spiraling rocking will seat the tube in the socket, ensuring optimal electron exchange. 

 Forgive me. It's my birthday!


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No worry about that, Jack is a good guy to deal with and responsive to solve any problem caused. I have my 6SE with additional tubes when ordered but the original stock tubes found missed packed with the amp when received. Reported to Jack and he offer refund immediately._

 

So it happened to you too dannie01?... Well, I might as well order a couple 6DE7 from ebay. I'll eventually need replacement tubes anyway, so it doesn't hurt to buy them now.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think you need to be concerned, the_equalizer. As far as I know no one else has ever recieved their amp a tube short - it looks like a case of there being an empty box in Jack's stash that got packed into Clayton's shipment by mistake.

 Good thing you ordered a second set, Clayton!_

 

Yeah, I know (from all the threads here and my brief contact with thim) that Jack's cool and my concern is more of the "I got a new toy for Christmas!! ... without batteries 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" variety, if you know what I mean; all the waiting and not being able to use the shiny new Woo...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CandlePower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm entirely happy with my WA6. The sound is packed with magical tube-goodness. The soft glow of the vacuum tubes fills my spirit. Solid state may be great, but how's it gonna equal the warmth and the art-object factor of a Woo.

 <snip>

 Forgive me. It's my birthday!_

 

Happy birthday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Incidentaly, today (12Oct) it's my wife's birthday too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 I couldn't help but noticing in your signature that you have the setup I'm aiming for:

 Headroom Micro Dac > WA6 > AKG-K702

 I already have the AKG-K701, I've purchased the WA6 and I'm hoping to buy the HR Micro DAC next year. How does it work with the WA6, can you give us some impressions?

 cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CandlePower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>
 Another one is "'Olapa Ka Uila I Kane'ohe" by Keola Beamer. Very spacious. Crystal clear. I don't yet know all the technical terms, but I know what I like. Another beautiful example is "Ku'u Lei, Ku'u Ipo" by Hapa. A song about a guy who's been away and wondering if his love is still there for him. You probably haven't heard it if you're not in the islands. You don't need to understand the words. The feeling tells the story. If your not into Hawaiian music yet, you couldn't start in a better place. 
 <snip>
 Wiggling the tube in order to facilitate insertion into the socket is a widely accepted and promoted practice among guitarists. Pulling a tube straight out or forcing it in without a little finesse is not how most Tube Masters approach the ritual of rolling. Gentle, spiraling rocking will seat the tube in the socket, ensuring optimal electron exchange. 

 Forgive me. It's my birthday!_

 

Happy birthday, CandlePower! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the useful information and music insights. I'm originally from Hawaii and need to reconnect with the music. Incidently, I haven't even thought of purchasing new music because the WA6 has had me so caught up in listening to my old collection of CDs that I haven't had time to consider new additions. The Woo has made me reconnect with the old—it's time for some new! Thanks.

 After 3 weeks with the WA6 I've begun to notice a slight low-level hum coming from inside that box behind the 5AR4 socket. It's noticeable when I take my headphones off and am snooping around those beautiful glowing tubes. I can hear it from about a foot away from the unit. Definitely not a distraction but none of my other tube equipment emits that kind of hum. Just curious. That humming box feels normal to the touch (warm) and the hum only goes away when I turn it off hours later (never over 8 hours, of course). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am really happy with the sound of my HD650 and K701 but I think the perfect sound from a set of headphones, for me at least, would be in between what those two have to offer. The WA6 can definitely handle the two with finesse. I am just amazed at how that amp can redefine music—or maybe define it the way it should be. But also how dead-quite it is when not playing anything. I almost blew both my eardrums clear into the center of my head when I was fiddling with the volume and forgot it was almost at the maximum. I'll never do that again.

 Yes, I am very happy with my Woo, too!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After 3 weeks with the WA6 I've begun to notice a slight low-level hum coming from inside that box behind the 5AR4 socket. It's noticeable when I take my headphones off and am snooping around those beautiful glowing tubes. I can hear it from about a foot away from the unit. Definitely not a distraction but none of my other tube equipment emits that kind of hum. Just curious. That humming box feels normal to the touch (warm) and the hum only goes away when I turn it off hours later (never over 8 hours, of course). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

The hum is coming from the power transformer. The hum can *usually* be de-tuned by *slightly* tightening, or loosening the the bolt that holds the transformer in place. I only recommend this procedure to someone with experience working on electronics since over tightening can damage the transformer. 

 Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The hum is coming from the power transformer. The hum can *usually* be de-tuned by *slightly* tightening, or loosening the the bolt that holds the transformer in place. I only recommend this procedure to someone with experience working on electronics since over tightening can damage the transformer. 

 Glenn_

 

Thank you, Glenn. Since the hum is virtually inaudible from about a foot away, is it safe to just leave it alone? Or should I have and expert tighten it for me?

 Clayton


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you, Glenn. Since the hum is virtually inaudible from about a foot away, is it safe to just leave it alone? Or should I have and expert tighten it for me?

 Clayton_

 

Clayton,

 If the hum isn't bothering you, it's best to just leave it alone. It will not harm anything. Just enjoy your amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clayton,

 If the hum isn't bothering you, it's best to just leave it alone. It will not harm anything. Just enjoy your amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn_

 

You're so right. I just feel like a new dad with a new baby and every little hum, hiss, and/or pop just makes me wonder. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am now going to kick back and just enjoy my most excellent amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Clayton


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello. I was wondering if anyone had photos of the insides of the WA22. I just ordered one and Jack mentioned to me in an email that there are no upgradeable parts for this model. I am curious as to what the stock WA22's insides look like. No matter what I bet it's awesome-looking! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd love to see the guts myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure it looks great! Someone please post internal shots! I'll show you mine, if you show me yours! LOL!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to see the guts myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm sure it looks great! Someone please post internal shots! I'll show you mine, if you show me yours! LOL!_

 

I just heard from Jack. It will take 6 weeks to build my WA22. Since I purchased it last week it's 1 down and 5 to go. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. I must practice patience, my friends....

 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, no pictures of WA22 guts until then. And I hope someone beats me to it.


----------



## Suprfly2k

Jack said my amp is almost done...looks like I might be receiving it a week early!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just heard from Jack. It will take 6 weeks to build my WA22. Since I purchased it last week it's 1 down and 5 to go. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. I must practice patience, my friends....

 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, no pictures of WA22 guts until then. And I hope someone beats me to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Still waiting (semi)-patiently for mine! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll volunteer to crack.. err, GENTLY open my WA22 when I receive it.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still waiting (semi)-patiently for mine! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll volunteer to crack.. err, GENTLY open my WA22 when I receive it._

 


 Looking forward to seeing it


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still waiting (semi)-patiently for mine! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll volunteer to crack.. err, GENTLY open my WA22 when I receive it._

 

I see you also own a PS Audio Digital Link III w/ Cullen Stage 4 Mods. I got mine last week. I didn't think music could be resurrected like that. My ears can barely pick up the differences between 96kHz and 192kHz so I leave it on 192. It makes the combo of Woo+DL3 a sweet sensation! Please tell us what you think of the WA22. Of course that's after you've carefully CRRACKED, I mean, after you've GENTLY opened your WA22 and have given it a reasonable amount of time to burn-in. Which will add more time to the wait. But at least you'll have the _Woo two-two_ in yer hands! Congrats!


----------



## atbglenn

I have two words to say to you guys getting, or already have the WA22, I'm Jealous!!!!! I hate you!!! Just kidding of course. I wish all of you the best of luck with them...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have two words to say to you guys getting, or already have the WA22, I'm Jealous!!!!! I hate you!!! Just kidding of course. I wish all of the the best of luck with them..._

 

Hey Glenn,

 This I've got to tell you. One evening while surfing the Net I happened upon a photo of a WA6 sitting on top of a Cambridge Audio 640C v2 (both silver) and thought, "How cool is that?" I also saw WOOAUDIO on the faceplate of the WA6 and thought, "what is WOOAUDIO?" Never seen or heard of this amp before and needed to do more investigating. Well as it turned out the picture was of your Bedside Setup. And that was the start of my interest in what Woo had to offer. AND LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENED! Thanks to you and your Bedside Setup I'M HOOKED pleasantly and loving it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've also noted that you are a big contributor to this Forum. And I thank you for that as well.

 Now where was I? Oh yes, waiting out the days and weeks until mine finally arrives. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock....

 Clayton


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just heard from Jack. It will take 6 weeks to build my WA22. Since I purchased it last week it's 1 down and 5 to go. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. I must practice patience, my friends....

 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, no pictures of WA22 guts until then. And I hope someone beats me to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So I contacted Jack to get some news on my amp, I ordered September 16, and he tells me it's almost done but it'll take a week more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so the wait drags on... 

 Impatient regards,


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

You guys really driving me crazy wanting a WA22 but I am financially stuck with the awesome WA6SEM.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I contacted Jack to get some news on my amp, I ordered September 16, and he tells me it's almost done but it'll take a week more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so the wait drags on... 

 Impatient regards,_

 

So in the meantime you'll have your 6DE7 replacements in hand _just in case._ I know when your amp arrives you'll forget about the time you just waited and waited AND waited. Remember this: after you've settle in with the amp, you might just disappear from the face of the earth for a few weeks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you'll be in total BLISS!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn,

 This I've got to tell you. One evening while surfing the Net I happened upon a photo of a WA6 sitting on top of a Cambridge Audio 640C v2 (both silver) and thought, "How cool is that?" I also saw WOOAUDIO on the faceplate of the WA6 and thought, "what is WOOAUDIO?" Never seen or heard of this amp before and needed to do more investigating. Well as it turned out the picture was of your Bedside Setup. And that was the start of my interest in what Woo had to offer. AND LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENED! Thanks to you and your Bedside Setup I'M HOOKED pleasantly and loving it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've also noted that you are a big contributor to this Forum. And I thank you for that as well.

 Now where was I? Oh yes, waiting out the days and weeks until mine finally arrives. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock....

 Clayton_

 

WOW Clayton,

 That's awesome. I'm glad I was able to help you......spend your money lol!

 Glenn


----------



## atbglenn

Hey Clayton,

 I see you have a PrimaLuna Dialogue 2. I have a Prologue 2 for a few years now. Great amplifiers, aren't they?

 Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Clayton,

 I see you have a PrimaLuna Dialogue 2. I have a Prologue 2 for a few years now. Great amplifiers, aren't they?

 Glenn_

 

Glenn,

 Yes, yes, yes. And with the Woo amp next to it I'll be warm and cozy this winter. Of course it's always winter in SF so those amps certainly come in handy year-round here. And yes, you are at least partly responsible for my credit card meltdowns. But in a good way.

 So tell me, how do those Sony MDR-V6 headphones sound connected to your WA6? I know any headphone connected to a Woo is an improvement, but compared to your HD650s (which I own as well) how are they?

 And you're on the East Coast, shouldn't you be in bed by now—listening to your WA6! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Clayton


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey Glenn,

 Did you ever get the Valve Art 274B and tried it out on your WA6? I got one but haven't really used it yet. It's absolutely dirt cheap for a rectifier ($13) compared to the Sophia. I'm sure the Sophia beats it to a pulp, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it should for at $150, but I've also read really great reviews about Valve Art. I got quads of their KT66 tubes for my PrimaLuna and they are really surprisingly good.

 Clayton


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glenn,

 Yes, yes, yes. And with the Woo amp next to it I'll be warm and cozy this winter. Of course it's always winter in SF so those amps certainly come in handy year-round here. And yes, you are at least partly responsible for my credit card meltdowns. But in a good way.

 So tell me, how do those Sony MDR-V6 headphones sound connected to your WA6? I know any headphone connected to a Woo is an improvement, but compared to your HD650s (which I own as well) how are they?

 And you're on the East Coast, shouldn't you be in bed by now—listening to your WA6! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Clayton_

 

Clayton,

 I purchased the Sony's under the recommendation of a friend a couple of years ago. I've broken them in fairly well but I have to tell you honestly I can't stand the way they sound on the few headphone amps I've tried them on including the Woo. The highs are a bit harsh, vocals are sibilant. No problems with the midrange and bass. Actually, the low bass is very powerful, more so that the HD650's. All is not lost though. They sound fine on my ipod nano and itouch. That's why I haven't sold them. The HD650's are a match made in heaven with the Woo. I use them exclusively with my setup.

 I ordered the Valve Art 274b from an eBay guy in China well over a year ago, Never received it. I had to file a complaint with paypal. I did get my money back at least. I forget the seller's name.

 Glenn


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn,

 Did you ever get the Valve Art 274B and tried it out on your WA6? I got one but haven't really used it yet. It's absolutely dirt cheap for a rectifier ($13) compared to the Sophia. I'm sure the Sophia beats it to a pulp, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and it should for at $150, but I've also read really great reviews about Valve Art. I got quads of their KT66 tubes for my PrimaLuna and they are really surprisingly good.

 Clayton_

 

Clayton,

 I'm using Mullard reissue EL34's in my Primaluna along with Mulllard 12AX7'a and Electro Harmonix 12AU7's. I'm quite pleased with the way my system sound with these inexpensive tubes. I'm sure it would probably sound a lot better if I invested in some NOS's, but right now I have household projects I have to take care of. Owning a home ain't cheap. You fix one thing, the next time you know your're spending $4500 to replace a cesspool, then my washing machine craps out. It's a never ending battle. 

 Glenn


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see you also own a PS Audio Digital Link III w/ Cullen Stage 4 Mods. I got mine last week. I didn't think music could be resurrected like that. My ears can barely pick up the differences between 96kHz and 192kHz so I leave it on 192. It makes the combo of Woo+DL3 a sweet sensation! Please tell us what you think of the WA22. Of course that's after you've carefully CRRACKED, I mean, after you've GENTLY opened your WA22 and have given it a reasonable amount of time to burn-in. Which will add more time to the wait. But at least you'll have the Woo two-two in yer hands! Congrats!_

 

Definitely can't wait!

 I used to leave it on 96kHz but now I'm always using 192kHz. The difference is barely audible, but at 192kHz it seems like the soundstage is wider and the music just opens up more. There doesn't seem to be a difference (at least from my experience) between the highs and the mids... although the lows do seem to be a tad bit more defined/tight.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely can't wait!

 I used to leave it on 96kHz but now I'm always using 192kHz. The difference is barely audible, but at 192kHz it seems like the soundstage is wider and the music just opens up more. There doesn't seem to be a difference (at least from my experience) between the highs and the mids... although the lows do seem to be a tad bit more defined/tight._

 

A couple of nights ago I did a blind test. I hit the select button many times and then listened and tried to tell where it landed. I was right the first 5 times. And then wrong the next 5. But you know, I do notice that the lows are definitely more "there"—a tad more defined and "gutsy." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there such an adjective for this?

 Since my DLIII is barely a week old, perhaps I'll hear a more pronounced difference between 96kHz and 192kHz a month down the road—that is about a 100 hours later. Hopefully my WA22 will be unboxed and set up by then.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clayton,

 I'm using Mullard reissue EL34's in my Primaluna along with Mulllard 12AX7'a and Electro Harmonix 12AU7's. I'm quite pleased with the way my system sound with these inexpensive tubes. I'm sure it would probably sound a lot better if I invested in some NOS's, but right now I have household projects I have to take care of. Owning a home ain't cheap. You fix one thing, the next time you know your're spending $4500 to replace a cesspool, then my washing machine craps out. It's a never ending battle. 

 Glenn_

 

Thank goodness I re-read this. I've been telling my friends at work that you paid $45,000 to replace your cesspool. Can you imagine how many Woo Amps you could get with $45K? Let alone PrimaLunas?

 So did we kill this thread or what? Has anyone gotten any news of any Woos on the horizon? I am still dying to see the innards (Remember Lynyrd Skynyrd, Glenn?) of a WA22. Keep us in the loop, guys


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank goodness I re-read this. I've been telling my friends at work that you paid $45,000 to replace your cesspool. Can you imagine how many Woo Amps you could get with $45K? Let alone PrimaLunas?

 So did we kill this thread or what? Has anyone gotten any news of any Woos on the horizon? I am still dying to see the innards (Remember Lynyrd Skynyrd, Glenn?) of a WA22. Keep us in the loop, guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Damn, I flipped out when the guy told me $4,500. On top of that, my front yard was completely trashed. A total bummer.


----------



## sillysally

For those of you with or thinking about a WA6, here is a very detailed picture site.
Flickr: Clayton Juan's Photostream

 Also this is a link of the SED "Winged C" 5U3C that came stock with my WA6SE.
Winged "C" (SED) 5U4-G

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Very nice pics, indeed.


----------



## Suprfly2k

My maxxed WA6E shipped today! EML next week...


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My maxxed WA6E shipped today! EML next week..._

 

Welcome to the club.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My maxxed WA6E shipped today! EML next week..._

 

Congrats, and welcome to the club


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice pics, indeed._

 

Thank you. We're all proud Woo Amp owners or soon-to-be owners, aren't we? Unity!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you. We're all proud Woo Amp owners or soon-to-be owners, aren't we? Unity! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Yes Clayton, your pictures are GREAT! Love them..


----------



## Clayton SF

This is a question I've been meaning to ask. When looking at photos of various WA6 interiors, I've noticed that some of those Rubycon capacitors are secured with only plastic ties, and some are secured AND glued down. Why would Jack glue down a capacitor if it is already tied down?

 Thanks


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a question I've been meaning to ask. When looking at photos of various WA6 interiors, I've noticed that some of those Rubycon capacitors are secured with only plastic ties, and some are secured AND glued down. Why would Jack glue down a capacitor if it is already tied down?

 Thanks_

 

 It's just to better secure the capacitors. I feel the glue is not really needed on the Rubycon equipped Woo's as long as the wire ties are tightly secured. On the V-cap equipped Woo's, I'd say the glue is definitely needed because the caps are much larger.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's just to better secure the capacitors. I feel the glue is not really needed on the Rubycon equipped Woo's as long as the wire ties are tightly secured._

 

Overkill is the name of this game, anything that prevents parts shifting and getting damaged in shipping is a good thing in my book 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Especially as opposed to Singlepower point-to-point, where components float in space, suspended just by their leads...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Overkill is the name of this game, anything that prevents parts shifting and getting damaged in shipping is a good thing in my book 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Especially as opposed to Singlepower point-to-point, where components float in space, suspended just by their leads..._

 

Singlepower? You can't glue down something that isn't there!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Singlepower? You can't glue down something that isn't there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You don't have to glue down capacitors in an amp you'll never receive! I'm a freaking wise guy! and so are you!


----------



## regal

Trying to find more info on the Woo 6 SET amps. Are these true DC gapped output transformers on this amp or do they block the DC with a cap and use less expensive transformers?


----------



## atbglenn

I thought all transformers block DC current


----------



## regal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought all transformers block DC current_

 

I mean thru the primary side, true SET transformers pass the tubes DC current thru the primary.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean thru the primary side, true SET transformers pass the tubes DC current thru the primary._

 

Thanks for the clarification


----------



## pzm9pzm9

how bad is it for working hot tubes suddenly getting cold air?

 I live in cold region and just opened up the windows, the cold air (38 F' outside now) blows directly to the amp. 

 can tubes be explode or something???


----------



## immtbiker

....ask the military...


----------



## Clayton SF

I am contemplating the purchase of closed headphones and the Audio-Technica ATH-W1000 comes to mind. Does anyone have an opinion about these cans on a Woo? I own two open headphones: the K701 and HD650 and would like to have a set of closed ones. The Audio-Technica ATH-W1000 is my first choice--I have no second choices but am willing to consider others as well. Any ready opinion on the W1000 as well as others is welcome. I am getting a WA22 in mid-November. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Clayton


----------



## jc9394

I don't own the W1000 but my W5000 pair very well with my WA6.


----------



## Clayton SF

It was brought to my attention (thanks, atbglenn) that the WA4 is now a discontinued model. Does anyone know why. I'm just wondering because it seems that every model of Jack's addresses someone's needs. Is the discontinuing of the WA4 leaving a gap in his line?


----------



## Henerenry

The WA6se pretty much replaces the WA4. Even if it didnt, the WA22 would have also superseeded it.

 I'd just say that it was pretty much a middle ground unit after the introduction of the two previously mentioned models.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henerenry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA6se pretty much replaces the WA4. Even if it didnt, the WA22 would have also superseeded it.

 I'd just say that it was pretty much a middle ground unit after the introduction of the two previously mentioned models._

 

Thanks Henerenry. It's also interesting to see the different tube configurations that Jack uses. The WA4 uses a slew of small tubes like the EZ80 rectifier compared to the 5AR4 rectifier on the WA6se. And the WA4 has a cityscape of 6 transformer blocks around it to the 3 on the WA6se. It must be very challenging (as well as fun) to design and build amps like these. I should read some books about tube amplifiers.


----------



## oricon82

After a month plus of waiting, it's finally here!











 It's time to


----------



## TheAudioDude

THE WAIT IS KILLING ME AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I've decided not to listen to my headphones until I get the WA22 but man is it hard.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oricon82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a month plus of waiting, it's finally here!

 <snip>

 It's time to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









_

 


 Oh man! That 6SE sure looks SWEET! I wish I had the desk space and, more importantly, budget to get one!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_THE WAIT IS KILLING ME AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I've decided not to listen to my headphones until I get the WA22 but man is it hard._

 

Oh it is taxing indeed, but hang on and the day shall come. Just yesterday Jack notified my that my WA6 would be shipping today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'll have tu put up my Millett "Starving Student" Hybrid for sale ?

 cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_THE WAIT IS KILLING ME AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I've decided not to listen to my headphones until I get the WA22 but man is it hard._

 

_Your wait is shorter than my wait. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 X 100!!!!!! MY WA22 is supposed to arrive on Nov. 16._


----------



## pedalhead

I feel for you. My WA22 should be shipping out by the end of this week though


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel for you. My WA22 should be shipping out by the end of this week though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will soon share your excitement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where's that "I'm still waiting for my Woo" support group?


----------



## dannie01

So many WA22 owners here and I anticipate to have your impression on it, please. I'm now itching to sell my 6SE and get this monster. But I've spent a lot on the BG mod and now is almost 800hrs of run-in then found that takezo is absolutely right, the 6SE sings much lovely than the last few hundred of hrs when the time reach 750 and over....................


----------



## Hoju510

Has anyone received their WES yet?

 How does the final version sound?

 Any pics?

 thanks!


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your wait is shorter than my wait. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 X 100!!!!!! MY WA22 is supposed to arrive on Nov. 16._

 

Well, at least you won't have to wait 6 to 10 days for the shipment to be delivered to you, and you won't have to deal with customs... which I'm anticipating will be the most interesting part of getting my amp...

 cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, at least you won't have to wait 6 to 10 days for the shipment to be delivered to you, and you won't have to deal with customs... which I'm anticipating will be the most interesting part of getting my amp...

 cheers!_

 

Were you able to get a pair of backup 6DE7s or the like just in case?


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, at least you won't have to wait 6 to 10 days for the shipment to be delivered to you, and you won't have to deal with customs... which I'm anticipating will be the most interesting part of getting my amp...

 cheers!_

 

Yes indeed, this is always the fun bit for us off-worlders. I'm thinking at this point I'll have about...oh...five days to run this puppy in before the UK meet


----------



## Bohemianism

New WooAudio owner here. WOOhoo!
 I got an second hand WA6 with upgrade from ciphercomplete (who was a breeze to deal with)
 upgrades include:
 Premium parts
 DACT CT2 stepped attenuator:
 Pseudo-dual power supply mod:
 Alo Solid Silver Core wiring throughout 

 The tubes included were
 Sophia Princess and stock rectifier
 2 pairs RCA 6DE7, 1 pair Tung Sol 6DE7, 1 pair RCA 6CY7

 Color silver.

 I'll start with wow, it is absolutely beautiful, I knew it looked good from pictures but you really appreciate the build quality in person. Despite having read several people comment that they were surprised how heavy it was I was still surprised.

 This is my first headphone amp, and really my first piece of hifi equipment, I figured to spend on something quality and have it last for a long time because I don't really have the money to upgrade often but I do have the patients to save a few months and get something quality. 

 I don't have a cdp or highend headphones as I'm busy savingo them still (I'm getting one but at a time so again I get the best I can afford). I should have them in a month though (it's remarkable how much I save when I stop drinking alcohol when I go out).

 Anyway so to make sure it was working on arrival and went and got a power cable and some interconnects and plugged it into my sisters DVD player (which isn't a particularly good one by any means).

 Using my Sennheiser HD485's I tested it and a huge smile appeared on my face. As these headphones are easy to drive I wasn't expected too noticeable gains but there were. I could clearly hear the difference running through the amp than just out of my computer.
 It sounds so much more emotional and lively. Each instrument is clearer and can be isolated, yet they all mesh together better also. Subtle sounds are clearer too. And on some guitar solos for instance, before the treble at times felt like it couldn't go any higher and got a hard sound, but through the amp my headphones feel like they handle it effortlessly. 

 I cannot wait to here what it will sound like when I get a CDP (Rega Apollo) and headphones (Sennheiser HD650) it will be orgasmic I suspect. (then it's onto saving for vinyl 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Bohemianism

I just have a few questions also regarding usage of the amp.

 How hot should the tubes get? (the power tubes are getting very hot, like a light-globe, and the rectifier borders on hot and warm)

 Also when I've turned the amp I noticed the rectifier (Sophia Princess 274B) sparked a bit inside the tube - is this okay?
 It hasn't happened every time but I've noticed it about twice)

 Also when switching from high to low impedance should I turn the amp off? What's the procedure there?

 Lastly how will I know when to replace the tubes. I know people have said when the sound starts to get overly warm. But I don't have the tubes from new to do a comparison, also as it's my first tube amp (well first amp entirely actually) I don't have anything else to compared it to.
 Are there any other cues (like diminishing glow, etc)?

 Any other advice regarding usage and care for my amp would be hugely appreciated.


----------



## nigeljames

Well I did it, just ordered a stock black W6se, now the waiting begins.


----------



## beard55

After months of reading through these threads looking for an amp that'll do my HD800's justice (without completely breaking my wallet) I just ordered a black 6SE with the Sophia Princess 274B. 

 I'd like the thank the folks in this thread for their insights. Jack was able to make it compatible with the 6fd7 tubes (thanks Covenant for highlighting this issue and takezo for pointing the way to a solution). I think he's going to make this standard in the future, but for know if anyone orders a new 6SE, I'd ask for it just to be safe.

 Now the hard part, waiting............. (mumbling, sorry about my wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just have a few questions also regarding usage of the amp.

 How hot should the tubes get? (the power tubes are getting very hot, like a light-globe, and the rectifier borders on hot and warm)

 Also when I've turned the amp I noticed the rectifier (Sophia Princess 274B) sparked a bit inside the tube - is this okay?
 It hasn't happened every time but I've noticed it about twice)
_

 

Is it when you turn on the amp that it is sparking or just randomly? 
 I have been reading about this amp along with the manufacturer spec sheets for the tubes and right now I don't like what I am seeing.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it when you turn on the amp that it is sparking or just randomly? 
 I have been reading about this amp along with the manufacturer spec sheets for the tubes and right now I don't like what I am seeing._

 

Can you elaborate?


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just have a few questions also regarding usage of the amp.

 How hot should the tubes get? (the power tubes are getting very hot, like a light-globe, and the rectifier borders on hot and warm)

 Also when I've turned the amp I noticed the rectifier (Sophia Princess 274B) sparked a bit inside the tube - is this okay?
 It hasn't happened every time but I've noticed it about twice)

 Also when switching from high to low impedance should I turn the amp off? What's the procedure there?

 Lastly how will I know when to replace the tubes. I know people have said when the sound starts to get overly warm. But I don't have the tubes from new to do a comparison, also as it's my first tube amp (well first amp entirely actually) I don't have anything else to compared it to.
 Are there any other cues (like diminishing glow, etc)?

 Any other advice regarding usage and care for my amp would be hugely appreciated._

 

Tubes should get very hot - hot enough to burn your skin if you touch it while in operation.
 You can change impedance switch back and forth while the amp is on.
 Earlier Woo6 models were not compatible with certain rectifiers - They made an update to the design (changed out a cap?) to make it compatible. You should check with Jack to make sure your model has the update.


----------



## Bohemianism

It just sparked (closest thing I can think of to describe it) briefly for almostly just an instant when I turned it on, just while it was running.
 It's happened twice, nothing has happened the other times (nothing is a good way).

 Why aren't you happy with what you've read about Wooamps, everything I've read seems to be overwhelmingly positive.


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It just sparked (closest thing I can think of to describe it) briefly for almostly just an instant when I turned it on, just while it was running.
 It's happened twice, nothing has happened the other times (nothing is a good way).

 Why aren't you happy with what you've read about Wooamps, everything I've read seems to be overwhelmingly positive._

 

Well if this was a problem earlier on in the design and fixed then I guess there is no problem. But what you are seeing looks like he is using too large of a capacitor on the plate of the tube and/or too small of a resistance. From what it looked like he was 330uF cap while the spec sheet states a maximum of 60uF for the 5AR4, the 274B is even lower than that. I don't know for certain what he is using, though your sparking tube is giving some hints. 

 taken from EML...

  Quote:


 3) If Capacitor loaded, you must have a minimum required copper resistance of the transformer winding.

 This is an old design rule, obligatory for any 5U4G, EML or other brand. If capacitor loaded, the first capacitor must be chosen at or below the maximum value in this data sheet. At EML we adapted to the same values from old data sheets. So there will be no doubt about those values. The minimum resistance is specified for the complete winding. (So not measured from the center tap). In case you use a transformer with too low copper resistance, you need to add one series resistors in each HV winding connection of the transformer. Then, with those two resistors in series, you re-measure the transformer winding, and the result must be as follows:

 Raa, value, for Curves 1...6: minimum 170 Ohms
 Raa, value, for Curves 1...8: minimum 230 Ohms

 If you ignore this design rule, tube damage will result. *Also in many "professional" amplifiers, this design rule is not used by designers who do not read the historical data sheets Tube damage can result as a white spark inside the tube at switch on, filament material can chip off, or the tube life will be much reduced.* With most amplifiers, the transformer winding is directly connected to the tube socket, and no protective series resistors are used. In most cases, the transformer resistance can be conveniently measured by a specialist, directly at the tube socket, when the rectifier tube is removed first.


----------



## takezo

wooaudio has told me in the past that the wa6 implements a soft-start when initially
 turned on... and the amp puts only 180v on the rectifier anode plate normally (much lower
 than the characteristic 450v, with max. of 550v.) contributing to the safe use of these
 rectifiers on the wa6... having said that, i'd lower the first caps to 22uf or lower, just to
 be on the safe side. the wa6SE implements a choke in their C-L-C path with the first cap
 being 10uf, with a delay circuit added on also, so should be fine.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Visited the RMAF and heard Woo Audio for the first time... ordered the WA22 last Monday!

 Build time quoted at 6 to 7 weeks... so I'm looking at Nov 30 - Dec 7. 

 Anybody know where I can pick up a good deal on a time machine?


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Visited the RMAF and heard Woo Audio for the first time... ordered the WA22 last Monday!

 Build time quoted at 6 to 7 weeks... so I'm looking at Nov 30 - Dec 7. 

 Anybody know where I can pick up a good deal on a time machine?




_

 

Good to see you made your choice, and what an excellent one


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wooaudio has told me in the past that the wa6 implements a soft-start when initially
 turned on... and the amp puts only 180v on the rectifier anode plate normally (much lower
 than the characteristic 450v, with max. of 550v.) contributing to the safe use of these
 rectifiers on the wa6... having said that, i'd lower the first caps to 22uf or lower, just to
 be on the safe side. the wa6SE implements a choke in their C-L-C path with the first cap
 being 10uf, with a delay circuit added on also, so should be fine._

 

That alleviates most of my concerns. I was hoping i wouldnt have to mod my SE after i got it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It is interesting that Bohemianism's amp is still sparking though, maybe an early run?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It just sparked (closest thing I can think of to describe it) briefly for almostly just an instant when I turned it on, just while it was running.
 It's happened twice, nothing has happened the other times (nothing is a good way).

 Why aren't you happy with what you've read about Wooamps, everything I've read seems to be overwhelmingly positive._

 

I have a Woo 6SE 3/09 build date (after mod). And when I use my Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier I do see a spark in the bottom of the tube. After that there is no sparks. 
 With my EML 274B I don't see any sparks, but I do hear a click about 5 seconds after I tune my amp on.

 ss


----------



## h.rav

^ It's probably the sound of the soft start circuit.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ It's probably the sound of the soft start circuit._

 

Agreed. There is a time delay relay in the power supply used in the soft start circuit. No worries.


----------



## Bohemianism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Woo 6SE 3/09 build date (after mod). And when I use my Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier I do see a spark in the bottom of the tube. After that there is no sparks. 
 With my EML 274B I don't see any sparks, but I do hear a click about 5 seconds after I tune my amp on.

 ss_

 

yeah the spark was also at the bottom of the tube for me.

 So nothing to worry about?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah the spark was also at the bottom of the tube for me.

 So nothing to worry about?_

 

The spark is something to worry about. If you just purchased a WA6 SE, it should have the latest updates and the tube shouldn't spark. Maybe your tube is defective? There have been a few Sophia Princess failures reported lately. I would contact Jack from Woo if I were you and see what he has to say


----------



## sillysally

Yes I would agree about the soft start click, and that is what I have always thought. 
 But still there is the spark from the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier. But so far I have not seen any spark from my EML rectifiers. 

 So is this just a problem with the Princess? And why, seeing that both of my EML 274B mesh and solid plates have the same specs and don't spark.

 ss


----------



## Bohemianism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The spark is something to worry about. If you just purchased a WA6 SE, it should have the latest updates and the tube shouldn't spark. Maybe your tube is defective? There have been a few Sophia Princess failures reported lately. I would contact Jack from Woo if I were you and see what he has to say_

 

I bought it second hand not new.
 I've been paying close attention and it hasn't done it again other than those original 2 times. I'll keep paying attention to see if it happens at all.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought it second hand not new.
 I've been paying close attention and it hasn't done it again other than those original 2 times. I'll keep paying attention to see if it happens at all._

 

If you bought it second hand it may be one of the original WA6SE's without the update. Do you hear a click after about 5 seconds when you power it on? If not, yours may not have the needed update to safely run the Sophia Mesh Plate. If you continue to see sparks when powering on, I'd discontinue using that tube until you speak to Jack. 

 Glenn


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to see you made your choice, and what an excellent one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

And thanks for your feedback before!

 Having made the amp decision, I now want to educate myself on All Things Tube. I was planning on ordering all three upgrades just before the WA22 ships. 

 I noticed that you ordered all the upgrades except for the Sophia Princess. Would love to know more about your thinking process there... and the source of your other choice.

 Cheers!


----------



## pedalhead

Well to be frank, I'm a tube dummy, but I trust Jack's comments that the upgraded tubes are worthy. I originally ordered the Sophia Princess, but there was a thread recently suggesting some reliability issues with a recent batch (or more). I also read a review suggesting the EML 5U4G mesh was a great option, hence my final order.


----------



## sillysally

I asked Jack about the click and spark some of us reported. 
 Reply.

 "It could happen if the surrounding is cold. No worries if the tube
 appears to work fine. The click is normal, and it would always engage
 every time you have a cold-start. This is a soft-start delay protection
 circuit."

 And yes this is what happens in my case. So I am not worried. I have had my Princess for about 6 months and it sounds great. 

 My WA6SE maxxed I got in 03/09. And now it is fully broken-in and really is a class 'A' amp. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Update!
 Hold On. I just tried my Nordost Vishnu (not recommended) power cord on my source player BD-83. When I was comparing these Rectifier's I was using the stock power cable that came with my Oppo.
 The reason why I didn't use the Nordost Vishnu was because when I tried that power cable before with my Princess, the sound was to bright. 
 So tomorrow I will be trying my EML 274B mesh. I have the EML 274B soild plate in now and it seems to have taken on the qualities that I liked about the Princess, but still retaining the soudstage/3D effect, along with the very dynamic sound and bass but still takes out the sibilance to the high notes (ssss). 
 Note on power cables; I also have a BlackSand Violet V1 connected to my WA6SE and PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner. 
 Last night I connected the Vishnu to my Woo with EML 274B solid and the Violet to my source (BD-83). The sound signature changed again. The soundstage really opened up but the bass was not there anymore and also the PQ was better (clearer). 
 So because of all changes in the sound signature and PQ I have ordered a second Violet V1, so I will have one of the V1 connected to my Woo and the other V1 connected to my Oppo. I understand that where I am going with the power cords will sound a little crazy, so I am including a link.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/2649695-post1.html 

 I have now had a chance to try the EML 274B mesh, and the EML 274B soild plate with music CD/SACD. And have update.


 I don't have the EML 5U4G mesh but I do have a EML 274B mesh and solid (huge tube) plate. However from everything I have read there is not much difference between the EML 5U4G and the EML 274. 

 The Princess is a very open , detailed, good soundstage and fast tube matched with a set of RCA big bottle. However I do find the Princess to be a bit flat and adds a bit of sibilance to the high notes (ssss). 

 The EML 274B mesh (big tube) is slower and not as detailed. Very good soundstage and it does take out the sibilance to the high notes (ssss). Big Base.

 The EML 274B solid plate (huge tube) is almost as fast as the Princess Like the EML mesh plate it does take out some sibilance to the high notes (ssss) but not as much. The soundstage is very big and 3D like, in all directions. The EML solid plate also has a very dynamic sound.
 Its the closest thing I have heard to a good 5.1/7.1 speaker sound system.
 Why I compare the sound of my system with the EML 274B solid plate to 5.1/7.1 speaker system is because of the dynamics, sound range, soundstage and the bass of a good sub woofer.
 There is no hum using this tube with a pair of big bottle RCA. 
 GE and Raytheon are close sounding tube except GE has a little hum.
 The Sylvania stretches out the soundstage too much, and also reduces the 3D effect. All these tubes are 6EW7 big bottle. 

 My rig is a WA6SE maxxed, Senn HD-800 and a Oppo BD-83 for Dac, downmix and source. 

 ss


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Were you able to get a pair of backup 6DE7s or the like just in case?_

 

Unfortunately I had to leave on a business trip and I wasn't able to; but I hope to remedy that situation this week.

 On the bright side of things, I'll be picking up my WA6 at the post office tomorrow morning !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please keep your fingers crossed that all goes well and that the import fee is low!

 cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately I had to leave on a business trip and I wasn't able to; but I hope to remedy that situation this week.

 On the bright side of things, I'll be picking up my WA6 at the post office tomorrow morning !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please keep your fingers crossed that all goes well and that the import fee is low!

 cheers!_

 

X-fingers. Yes, I have them crossed for you and your new WOO! Woo Hoo! You will fall in love with it.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X-fingers. Yes, I have them crossed for you and your new WOO! Woo Hoo! You will fall in love with it._

 

And fell in love with it I have ! To start with, the packing. I know, I know it's not part of the amp but it show the care Woo puts into all this. The 1 inch thick moulded styrofoam really impressed me, with a section for the tubes and all.

 Ok, let's get this baby out of it's cradle... what a beauty!! After seeing some on-line pics of black WA6's I had second thoughts about my color selection (ordered silver) but now that I have it before me I can only say this is a beautiful thing. I particularly like the look of the stock Russian rectifier. Oh!, and no missing tubes in my case!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About the sound, I'm listening to my SR-225i's through it as I type and the sound is just beautiful too; detailed, powerful, punchy, zero hum; simply great. Man and I thought my DIY amps sounded good... now I just don't want to go to the office and leave this puppy here home alone !

 Probably the best part: I didn't have to pay a SINGLE cent in customs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, this was definitely a wothwile wait. Hang on there Woo buyers your day shall come!!

 cheers!


----------



## El_Doug

My WES ships tomorrow!!! 

 Since I live in NJ, I'm hoping against hope that I'll have my amp by Friday


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WES ships tomorrow!!! 

 Since I live in NJ, I'm hoping against hope that I'll have my amp by Friday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice!!! a review coming up? I will drive to pick it up if I live that close, I'm a very impatient when it come to toys.


----------



## Suprfly2k

Getting close to 100 hours on my upgraded WA6SE. So, far, so good. I particularily love the sound from my Clearaudio Maestro cartridge. This thing makes vinyl sound so good it hurts...

 I should get my EML 274 mesh early next week and am looking forward to that. 

 I'd really like to try some RCA big bottle 6ew7 tubes, but am having a tough time finding a pair. Any suggestions on where I should look?


----------



## WalkGood

I'm sure many of you have noticed this thread, but for those who haven't, take a look http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/woo...s-nice-452741/


----------



## dannie01

I have ordered 2 sets of this headphone stand with my 6SE, very nice looking and solid but a bit too short. 

 The new one shown below now offer by Woo Audio is much better, round top hanging plate and with adjustable height.






 Pic copy from Woo Audio website.


----------



## El_Doug

My WES is literally 3 miles from my home, in a FedEx warehouse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I could go pick it up now!


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WES is literally 3 miles from my home, in a FedEx warehouse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I could go pick it up now!_

 

What's stopping you!?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I had a WES with my name on it three miles from my house I think I'd be calling out the A-team for a midnight mission for electrostatic ecstasy!! 

 Please, oh please, put up some pictures!


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have ordered 2 sets of this headphone stand with my 6SE, very nice looking and solid but a bit too short. 

 The new one shown below now offer by Woo Audio is much better, round top hanging plate and with adjustable height. ..._

 

I agree the one I have (HPS-H) might be short for some phones compared to the adjustable height of the HPS-R and HPS-T. That said the HPS-H works fine for my hd650s and that's all I'll need till someday in the future when I decide to add a second set of cans.

 BTW congrats, hope you enjoy


----------



## immtbiker

I have one of these since the NYC Spring Meet (thanks Jack) and the beautiful thing about this stand is (aside from it's build quality and handsomeness) is, if you buy the single sided one, like I did, It is perfect for placing an electrostat on it, and using either the Stax shower cap or any gallon size ziplock back over the phones to keep the dust of the stators. A double sided one would need a huge cover.


----------



## melomaniac

just got a woo stand, used. not sure I needed one, nice to have though...


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *melomaniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got a woo stand, used. not sure I needed one, nice to have though..._

 

Well, I'm absolutely sure I do not *need* one... but, oh my! how badly I *want* one !

 cheers!


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm absolutely sure I do not *need* one... but, oh my! how badly I *want* one !

 cheers!_

 

They're very well made, have a pleasing form & function and worth the price if that helps you make up your mind


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They're very well made, have a pleasing form & function and worth the price if that helps you make up your mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh man, please don't ! I've already started to mentally re-organize my desk to make space for the thing!


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh man, please don't ! I've already started to mentally re-organize my desk to make space for the thing!_

 

No big deal at all, just throw somthing away on your desk and pull the trigger to get one (or two), that's it, real simple.


----------



## IceClass

Scored a Woo2 on Ebay for a real song.
 Hopefully it shows up with all its parts and working.


----------



## Henerenry

haha, you are probably the one who ended up out bidding me on the woo2 then!

 DAMN YOU!

 nah, good buy!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well, it looks like I'll have to wait a bit longer to be in the club. I e-mailed Jack today about my order and he said that the chassis is out of stock, and they'll receive more in a couple of weeks. Oh well... patience will pay off. The longer I wait the better it will sound!


----------



## indydieselnut

Okay guys, I'm back
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After selling my WA6SE a few months ago and taking my headphone journey a different direction, I just bit and ordered a WA6 with PDPS! I just sold one of my pool cues that I never use to buy my wife a nice digital camera. The cue had appreciated so much that I had some money left over...you know how that goes.

 I'm rationalizing that it will make a great computer desk amp and I get to use the 6-7 sets of drive tubes AND my EML 5U4G that I still have...

 I'm back in the fold...


----------



## h.rav

^ Welcome back!


----------



## atbglenn

welcome back times two!


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_welcome back times two! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You and I will have to trade ideas about how our systems sound. I'll be running a WA6/PDPS with a Cambridge DacMagic and HD650's with a Blue Dragon v.3 recable...we should practically be hearing the same thing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You and I will have to trade ideas about how our systems sound. I'll be running a WA6/PDPS with a Cambridge DacMagic and HD650's with a Blue Dragon v.3 recable...we should practically be hearing the same thing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!_

 

Problem is you won't be sharing the main Analog Signal Processor in the signal path... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers !


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Problem is you won't be sharing the main Analog Signal Processor in the signal path... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers !_

 

...and that's why all of this is so darn fun!! It's also why so much of the "which amp/'phone/cdp/dac/etc is 'BEST'?" is so futile - the Analog Signal Processor is always different


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and that's why all of this is so darn fun!! It's also why so much of the "which amp/'phone/cdp/dac/etc is 'BEST'?" is so futile <snip>_

 

Oh, I couldn't agree more, indeed!

 cheers!


----------



## brisk

got my WA2 today! quick (and probably silly) question though: i need to use 230v so do i set the jumper to the bottom (so it says 115v above it) or do i set it to the top (where it says 230v below)

 i imagine i need to move it to the bottom, but didn't want to turn it on with the incorrect voltage, potentially damaging it before i even get a chance to listen!


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brisk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_got my WA2 today! quick (and probably silly) question though: i need to use 230v so do i set the jumper to the bottom (so it says 115v above it) or do i set it to the top (where it says 230v below)

 i imagine i need to move it to the bottom, but didn't want to turn it on with the incorrect voltage, potentially damaging it before i even get a chance to listen!_

 

you want the 230v to be the visible text. you're overanalyzing


----------



## brisk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you want the 230v to be the visible text. you're overanalyzing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it looks like I'll have to wait a bit longer to be in the club. I e-mailed Jack today about my order and he said that the chassis is out of stock, and they'll receive more in a couple of weeks. Oh well... patience will pay off. The longer I wait the better it will sound!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Eeek! That's too bad. I'm wondering if my WA22 is being built or is my chassis out of stock as well? I should email Jack. Maybe not. Oh, hail, I wanna know.


----------



## pedalhead

My WA22 has at last arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Couldn't resist a few early pics...
















 Initial impressions are...wow...definitely an upgrade over my Mapletree Ear+. Lots more listening to do now...


----------



## jc9394

Wow, that EML 5U4G glows like a christmas tree. Good space heater...


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It makes me crazy for the EML too.... Wish I can afford another rectifier tube. My replacement SP274B is missing in transit as for now.


----------



## h.rav

Ugh... Those pics make me wants to upgrade to WA22... must resist...


----------



## jc9394

Let's hope SE have insurance on the shipment. Yeah, it really makes me to get that EML too, but I have no use my WA6 as much since I got my JH13 and iQube. I have to fire up my WA6 tonight and have a listen with JH13.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh... Those pics make me wants to upgrade to WA22... must resist... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

resistance is futile, go get it...


----------



## indydieselnut

Absolutely beautiful! I'm looking forward to my WA6 w/PDPS in three week and it will be fun to see that EML 5U4G dwarf the rest of the amp! I have that tube left over from before and it should make for a spectacular show. 

 Long-term I'm still committed to a WA5LE but tallied it up the other day...it made me take a deep breath:

 Stock amp: $2,500
 Parts upgrade: $1,100
 Teflon sockets: $150
 (2) EML 300B: $1,200
 (2) EML 5U4G: $450
 Undecided 6SN7: ???

 $5,400 and counting...that's just a whole lot of money! I could add 360 cds to the collection for that much money. 

 I'm not saying it's not "worth it" because that's an intensely personal decision...it's just quite a bit of money


----------



## jc9394

One thing I learn is never tally up anything...it will makes you fell better. Just pay Jack...

 One thing I find very funny is, usually the upgrade parts cost more than the base amp.


----------



## bialystok

Question for you guys. I won a WA2 off of ebay that is maxxed and is arriving today - Its going to bother me unless I can actually verify it for myself - I know a lot of people show the insides of their units - but is there any tutorial on how to open it up?

 Or better yet is there any way to tell if it has the premium parts upgrade and the stepped attenuator upgrade without actually having to open the unit? Maybe you could tell by the rca connectors or something? Any input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## jc9394

It is very easy openning the case, usually 4 screws at the bottom of the unit.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

I recently accquired used GES amp hook up to my Dac & loop out to my WA2. The problem is that I am not getting any signals from loop out from the GES. Am I missing something? Does the GES amp must be turned on to use loop out? Either way, on or off, I am not getting any signals to WA2. Please advice if I am missing anything.


----------



## bialystok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is very easy openning the case, usually 4 screws at the bottom of the unit._

 

Okay I'll give it a shot - any ideas on how to identify the 24 step attenuator? The BlackGate caps are pretty easy since they say blackgate lol.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bialystok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay I'll give it a shot - any ideas on how to identify the 24 step attenuator? The BlackGate caps are pretty easy since they say blackgate lol._

 

Search for "DACT attenuator" using google. They have a webpage with pictures. It's usually an Alps Blue Velvet if it DOESN'T have the attenuator. The Blue Velvet is a little blue cube and it usually has an ALPS sticker on the back of it. You should be able to tell pretty quickly which one you have. 

 Congrats on the purchase!


----------



## bialystok

Awesome - thanks dude!!

 Sorry one last question - is there any way to tell the difference between the stock tube sockets and the teflon upgraded ones?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bialystok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome - thanks dude!!

 Sorry one last question - is there any way to tell the difference between the stock tube sockets and the teflon upgraded ones?_

 

Don't quote me on this, the stock socket is matte finish while the teflon is glossy.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't quote me on this, the stock socket is matte finish while the teflon is glossy._

 

I used the quote function, sorry! I believe it's the other way around. The teflon socket has a matte, almost translucent look to it while the stock sockets are glossy. 

 It would be the first time I've been wrong if I have this backwards, so anyone else is free to chime in


----------



## jc9394

You maybe right. I will double check tonight, I have the telfon socket. I have not use it as much as I like lately, blame it one JH13/iQube.


----------



## nattonrice

It should be easy to identify the socket type.
 If it is not teflon then it'll be glazed ceramic.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently accquired used GES amp hook up to my Dac & loop out to my WA2. The problem is that I am not getting any signals from loop out from the GES. Am I missing something? Does the GES amp must be turned on to use loop out? Either way, on or off, I am not getting any signals to WA2. Please advice if I am missing anything._

 

Only the one RCA input next to the RCA loop out will feed the loop out, so if you hooked it to the other input you wont hear anything on the loop out.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only the one RCA input next to the RCA loop out will feed the loop out, so if you hooked it to the other input you wont hear anything on the loop out._

 

Thank you


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, that EML 5U4G glows like a christmas tree. Good space heater..._

 

Yep, which is quite handy as it gets pretty cold in my barn where this rig is located. Bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Rather than duplicate posts, I've posted my initial impressions in the WA22 thread... http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/woo...ml#post6134466


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bialystok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for you guys. I won a WA2 off of ebay that is maxxed and is arriving today - Its going to bother me unless I can actually verify it for myself - I know a lot of people show the insides of their units - but is there any tutorial on how to open it up?

 Or better yet is there any way to tell if it has the premium parts upgrade and the stepped attenuator upgrade without actually having to open the unit? Maybe you could tell by the rca connectors or something? Any input would be greatly appreciated._

 

Here's my maxed WA2 which was built in July -- everything but the teflon sockets (which I did not want because of past bad experience):


----------



## Henerenry

What a handsome looking amo, Ive specced exactly the same amp and should recieve it by months end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I noticed that your amp seems to have different tube sockets anyway? Are these the black ones that have been popping up in pics?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It makes me crazy for the EML too.... Wish I can afford another rectifier tube. My replacement SP274B is missing in transit as for now._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's hope SE have insurance on the shipment. Yeah, it really makes me to get that EML too, but I have no use my WA6 as much since I got my JH13 and iQube. I have to fire up my WA6 tonight and have a listen with JH13._

 

Latest from Sophia Electric, no replacement for the missing package unless I subsidize/share the cost for another tube and shipping. SE is asking 50%...

 That is rather unfair for a customer as the defected tube was returned with Registered Post and Insurance to ensure safe arrival but the return shipping was just a normal Airmail. And now the parcel is no where to be located. According to SE, the package was shipped out on October 03 and it has been more than a month now, my package to them took approx 2 weeks arrive.

 It looks like I am heading to EML for a better tube and customer service since the requested sum is not justifiable. Sad... as my spare SP274B is also begun to turn darker now.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Latest from Sophia Electric, no replacement for the missing package unless I subsidize/share the cost for another tube and shipping. SE is asking 50%...

 That is rather unfair for a customer as the defected tube was returned with Registered Post and Insurance to ensure safe arrival but the return shipping was just a normal Airmail. And now the parcel is no where to be located. According to SE, the package was shipped out on October 03 and it has been more than a month now, my package to them took approx 2 weeks arrive.

 It looks like I am heading to EML for a better tube and customer service since the requested sum is not justifiable. Sad... as my spare SP274B is also begun to turn darker now._

 

Don't you or SE have a tracking number?

 Yes in my case the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier seems to have a short life. I had my first SP replaced after about 20 days. Now after about 5 months of use (5 hours a day) my second SP looks like it may not have much life left in it. It has turned dark and is sparking once when my 6SEM is started. 
 The SP is a very nice rectifer and and seems to be very good for a range of rigs. 

 However what I have found was using a EML 274B Solid Plate and a Black Sand Violet V1 power cord on my source player, really makes my 6SEM shine and is a nice improvement over the SP.

 ss


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the quote function, sorry! I believe it's the other way around. The teflon socket has a matte, almost translucent look to it while the stock sockets are glossy. 

 It would be the first time I've been wrong if I have this backwards, so anyone else is free to chime in
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

You are correct, my teflon socket is matte finish.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't you or SE have a tracking number?

 Yes in my case the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier seems to have a short life. I had my first SP replaced after about 20 days. Now after about 5 months of use (5 hours a day) my second SP looks like it may not have much life left in it. It has turned dark and is sparking once when my 6SEM is started. 
 The SP is a very nice rectifer and and seems to be very good for a range of rigs. 

 However what I have found was using a EML 274B Solid Plate and a Black Sand Violet V1 power cord on my source player, really makes my 6SEM shine and is a nice improvement over the SP.

 ss_

 

SE chose to sent the replacement via Airmail without tracking and insurance with the reason of cheaper cost and this is what I am suffering now. Thats for the input on EML. Jack should consider promoting EML instead.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Latest from Sophia Electric, no replacement for the missing package unless I subsidize/share the cost for another tube and shipping. SE is asking 50%...

 That is rather unfair for a customer as the defected tube was returned with Registered Post and Insurance to ensure safe arrival but the return shipping was just a normal Airmail. And now the parcel is no where to be located. According to SE, the package was shipped out on October 03 and it has been more than a month now, my package to them took approx 2 weeks arrive.

 It looks like I am heading to EML for a better tube and customer service since the requested sum is not justifiable. Sad... as my spare SP274B is also begun to turn darker now._

 

I will go EML instead if I have to pay half on the replacement. Do Sue give you a tracking number? She shipped my with delivery confirmation.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will go EML instead if I have to pay half on the replacement. Do Sue give you a tracking number? She shipped my with delivery confirmation._

 

That is exactly what I am planning since many favors EML over SP now. Unfortunately, mine was shipped without tracking and was told it should be safe and cheaper via Airmail. What a great customer service experience.


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henerenry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What a handsome looking amo, Ive specced exactly the same amp and should recieve it by months end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I noticed that your amp seems to have different tube sockets anyway? Are these the black ones that have been popping up in pics?_

 

Yep, these are the black sockets with machined pins. Very nice!

 Congratulations on your new amp. I'm sure you will be most delighted.


----------



## jdmoorman

My experience with Sophia customer service has been exceptional.
 Email response is almost immediate, regardless of time of day.
 I ordered a replacement SP274B about 10PM Sunday night, California time, and it is now playing in my WA6 (Wednesday afternoon). Yes, I did the express shipment. 
 If you send an email, I would be very surprised if you did not get a prompt and satisfactory response.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jdmoorman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with Sophia customer service has been exceptional.
 Email response is almost immediate, regardless of time of day.
 I ordered a replacement SP274B about 10PM Sunday night, California time, and it is now playing in my WA6 (Wednesday afternoon). Yes, I did the express shipment. 
 If you send an email, I would be very surprised if you did not get a prompt and satisfactory response._

 

I have no complaints of their response towards email but the way they manage their after sales is not satisfactory.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>
 Yes in my case the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier seems to have a short life. I had my first SP replaced after about 20 days. Now after about 5 months of use (5 hours a day) my second SP looks like it may not have much life left in it. 
 <snip>

 ss_

 

Man! That's an *absurdly* short life span for what the tube costs! I was considering buying one of those next year but knowing that, I'd rather stay with my pedestrian 5AR4 !


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no complaints of their response towards email but the way they manage their after sales is not satisfactory._

 

X2, the only reason they replace our defective SP is Jack gave them hard time about it. I think this maybe the reason Jack start to stock EML tubes.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2, the only reason they replace our defective SP is Jack gave them hard time about it. I think this maybe the reason Jack start to stock EML tubes._

 

I think along the same reason and EML is the best alternative for now. I was surprised when SE asked for subsidy when the replacement got loss which were not my fault and there wasn't any evidence that the tube was delivered. All I received was just an email notification that the tube was shipped on October 03, 2009. It never arrives, that it...


----------



## jc9394

I don't think sue is lying, it may very well that the tube went MIA. They should replace it since she have no confirmation it is delivered. A delivered confirmation is less than a $1.00, I have no idea why she does not take that option. Anyhow, I will be getting EML 5U4G mesh after that Christmas tree pic.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think sue is lying, it may very well that the tube went MIA. They should replace it since she have no confirmation it is delivered. A delivered confirmation is less than a $1.00, I have no idea why she does not take that option. Anyhow, I will be getting EML 5U4G mesh after that Christmas tree pic._

 

I amended my earlier post, I am sure SE shipped out the tube but parcels sometimes do go missing. I can accept a simple apology but instead I was told that they never had such experience and requested for 50:50 sharing if I want another tube to be replaced/shipped.

 I will just forget about the SP274B for now and my second SP274B which I salvage from a local user is weakening after 400 hours. The glass begins to turn darker like the earlier tube too. I am saving some funds for a EML 5U4G and hope to get it before X'Mas.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I am saving some funds for a EML 5U4G and hope to get it before X'Mas._

 

Same here. Every time I have the fund to purchase it, there is some new portable amp caught my attentions.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I amended my earlier post, I am sure SE shipped out the tube but parcels sometimes do go missing. I can accept a simple apology but instead I was told that they never had such experience and requested for 50:50 sharing if I want another tube to be replaced/shipped.

 I will just forget about the SP274B for now and my second SP274B which I salvage from a local user is weakening after 400 hours. The glass begins to turn darker like the earlier tube too. I am saving some funds for a EML 5U4G and hope to get it before X'Mas._

 

You would think the poor customer service, and unreliable product would eventually hurt SE's sales. I for one will keep away. I'm sure others will too..


----------



## bialystok

My WA2 came in today. I verified it has all the upgrades, it looks beautiful and sounds even better. Thanks everybody for their help yesterday!


----------



## jc9394

congratulation and welcome to the club, now go and search for tubes for rolling.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_congratulation and welcome to the club ..._

 

Are you by chance talking about this club


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you by chance talking about this club



_

 

I thought that is a "Team" not a club...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't link a club in this web site...somewhere I will be heading next week...


----------



## bialystok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_congratulation and welcome to the club, now go and search for tubes for rolling._

 

Ha - I'll have to nurse my wallet back to health first.


----------



## bdr529

Finally got my WA6-SE today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far I am really liking it. I had a question about tubes though. I received two sets of 6EW7 and a set of the 6DE7, but I cant find any information if they are re-branded (I assume this, dont really see them mentioned here) and what their origins might be. 

 My first set of 6EW7 are made by Zenith (think it says made in the USA, washed off...) and are of the cleartop fat bottle variety. My second set are labeled United Electron and are also fat bottle but have a silver top. The Zenith ones have have a round plate at the bottom and a more rectangular one on top while the United electron have rectangular top and bottom.

 My 6DE7 is also Zenith (made in the USA) with a silver top. 

 Anyone know what i got 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## jc9394

I'm not that familiar with tubes too but my clear top one are from GE and Sylanvia while my silver top one are from RCA. 

 I like the RCA one better than both GE and Sylanvia when driving my ATH-W5000.


----------



## hybwolf

Does Woo make any amps that use tubes that are still in production or just NOS tubes?


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hybwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Woo make any amps that use tubes that are still in production or just NOS tubes?_

 

i dont believe that ANY Woo amp requires NOS tubes. im 99% certain that there are in-production tubes that can be used in all of their products


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hybwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Woo make any amps that use tubes that are still in production or just NOS tubes?_

 

Most of what they make can use new tubes but most of the NOS are just better. Having said that there are some nice 300B's being made now and then the power tubes have come a long ways. The Woo 6 used the 6DE7 or 6EW7 and a few other in the driver/power section and I don't believe those are made any longer. The last of the NOS of those was from the 1980's but the better ones are from the 1950's and early 60's.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont believe that ANY Woo amp requires NOS tubes. im 99% certain that there are in-production tubes that can be used in all of their products_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<snip>
 The Woo 6 used the 6DE7 or 6EW7 and a few other in the driver/power section and I don't believe those are made any longer. The last of the NOS of those was from the 1980's but the better ones are from the 1950's and early 
 60's._

 

Indeed, AFAIK there's no in-production tube that directly substitutes the WA6 driver/power tubes. 

 Speaking of which, can any of you guys point me to a trustworthy source for 6FD7 tubes? I feel my AKG K701 sound a bit anemic with the stock 6DE7 tubes and I want to try to beef up the output power.

 cheers!


----------



## hybwolf

Just what I thought. I have been looking at the WA 6 and WA 6SE but the NOS output tubes is what turns me off. I would prefer having the option to buy new production tubes. I have used a few 6sn7 based pre-amps over the last 15 years. I can remember years ago good NOS 6sn7 were easy and cheap to find. Since then there has been an explosion of manufactures producing 6sn7 based pre-amps which really drained the easy to find 6sn7. Now all the NOS premium 6sn7 cost a fortune because they become more rare as time goes on. But atleast I can get new productions that are actually really good sounding.

 The 300B amp looks sweet but that's a bit more then I would like to spend on a head phone amp. I'll need to contact Woo to see if one of their current designs can be modified to take a current production.


----------



## jc9394

The output/power tubes are pretty easy to locate on the internet and they do last for few thousand hours. There are plenty in fleabay and it is cheap.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I just sent payment for a Woo 3+ severely modified. OK from the top I ordered the *Teflon tube sockets upgrade, Blackgates upgrade, FI-03 Rhodium FURUTECH , and the WBT panel mount RCA's, Have many audio grade fuses and a few power cables.

 Now what tubes to order? Any Suggestions?
*


----------



## bialystok

Here it is - my new WA2 with DagMagic


----------



## Choochoo

Big Poppa. You may consider Sylvania 7236 and Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base ... the sound is fantastic. This is my second rolling from Sylvania 7236 and Sylvania 6SN7GT.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Great recommendation on the Sylvania 7236, I just found a Tungsol 7236. What is the difference? Any suggestions on any 6dj8's?


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bialystok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here it is - my new WA2 with DagMagic_

 

Nice! how did you make the tubes glow purple?


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hybwolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just what I thought. I have been looking at the WA 6 and WA 6SE but the NOS output tubes is what turns me off. I would prefer having the option to buy new production tubes. I have used a few 6sn7 based pre-amps over the last 15 years. I can remember years ago good NOS 6sn7 were easy and cheap to find. Since then there has been an explosion of manufactures producing 6sn7 based pre-amps which really drained the easy to find 6sn7. Now all the NOS premium 6sn7 cost a fortune because they become more rare as time goes on. But at least I can get new productions that are actually really good sounding.

 The 300B amp looks sweet but that's a bit more then I would like to spend on a head phone amp. I'll need to contact Woo to see if one of their current designs can be modified to take a current production._

 

Come on thats the fun part tweaking the amp! I agree. it would be nice if they still sold the tubes from the good old days. The good news is that the tubes do last a long time. The 6SN7 pre-amp. comment hit home. I just this summer spent $500.00 on 8 1950 6SN7-GT Sylvania tubes (@ $60.00 each plus shipping and insurance
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and I see some matched pairs of Tung Sol etc. 6SN7 that have been driven up to over $500.00 by the guys with the OMG reviews ) for my Cary SLP 05 pre-amp!!

 I may join this Woo club yet. Even with the NOS tubes.


----------



## DarKu

Welcome a new WooAudio lover 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think i fell in love second time in my life! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/8717/img2531g.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7438/img2534k.jpg
 I think it's firts time i really heard how Grados SING


----------



## bialystok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice! how did you make the tubes glow purple?_

 

Its just my crap camera - they are glowing orangeish.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome a new WooAudio lover 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think i fell in love second time in my life! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it's firts time i really heard how Grados SING_

 

Congrats DarKu, that's a sexy setup


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WilCox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my maxed WA2 which was built in July -- everything but the teflon sockets (which I did not want because of past bad experience):
 <snipped pictures>_

 

Yes, WilCox, you own a very nice piece of Woo circuitry. I ordered a WA22 with teflon sockets the first week of October. It should be in my clutches in a few weeks (I hope). What was your past bad experience with those sockets?


----------



## zionic

I am about to join the ranks of you all - I ordered a black WA6 w/PDPS and 22/300V VCAP upgrade. My ordered went in a week ago, so per Jack's estimate, I have a couple weeks to wait. I will need a DAC. Jack recommended for this budget to consider the DAC Magic or PS Audio DIII. DAC Magic seems to be reasonably priced but from reading the forums it seems the build may be rather weak (?). PS Audio looks nice but at more cost. I guess I could consider Constatine or an Audio GD 19MK3 as well. Any DAC recommendations to go with the WA6? I will be listening to rock, prog, reggae, with D5000 and K702 - flac 16/44 though it would be nice to be able to handle 24/96 - I guess the PS or the Cambridge win out there since it looks like the other 2 only do 16/44(?).


----------



## bialystok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zionic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am about to join the ranks of you all - I ordered a black WA6 w/PDPS and 22/300V VCAP upgrade. My ordered went in a week ago, so per Jack's estimate, I have a couple weeks to wait. I will need a DAC. Jack recommended for this budget to consider the DAC Magic or PS Audio DIII. DAC Magic seems to be reasonably priced but from reading the forums it seems the build may be rather weak (?). PS Audio looks nice but at more cost. I guess I could consider Constatine or an Audio GD 19MK3 as well. Any DAC recommendations to go with the WA6? I will be listening to rock, prog, reggae, with D5000 and K702 - flac 16/44 though it would be nice to be able to handle 24/96 - I guess the PS or the Cambridge win out there since it looks like the other 2 only do 16/44(?)._

 

Congrats - I've got my new WA2 hooked up to a dacmagic (see picture on previous page) and I can firmly say that the build of the dacmagic is anything but weak. Its a very solid heavy unit and feels very sturdy. Its all metal construction. It sounds incredible as well - very rich and deep sound that seems to be a superb fit for my amp. I am LOVING it. I'd definitely give a vote to the dacmagic. I got mine for 349 brand new - for half the price of the PS Audio unit it was a no brainer to me.


----------



## zionic

Thanks for the info. I had heard about power supply issues on some UK units (I am in the US though), and that sometimes the panel wasn't screwed in correctly. That's good to hear you're happy with it - I am leaning toward this unit then. Any avice on where to find it for a good price like you got? I seem to see it around for $429. $349 sounds like a great price.


----------



## El_Doug

Indeed, the DACMagic is a very sturdy unit. Mine has never had any build issues whatsoever (though I paid the full $430... first preorder batch)

 Though it is a pretty weak DAC when paired with my WES, the DACMagic still provides an excellent sound for use connected to the computer. Since all of my critical listening is done via SACD 99% of the time, a super-DAC is unnecessary. Even when playing high-rez files via computer, I have yet to feel the need to upgrade


----------



## bialystok

The MAP is 429 but according the sales rep I spoke to at an audiophile shop north of philadelphia they markup the audio equipment by as much as 60% especially the higher end stuff. He basically just offered it to me for 350 - but I'm positive if you call one of the places on google shopping they'd give you that price.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zionic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am about to join the ranks of you all - I ordered a black WA6 w/PDPS and 22/300V VCAP upgrade. My ordered went in a week ago, so per Jack's estimate, I have a couple weeks to wait._

 

Congratulations!

 I placed an order for a wa22 on 11/5. Did you get a confirmation from Jack about the receipt of the order and an ETA? Or did you have to contact him for this?

 As a matter of fact I've gotten nothing so far except for the paypal receipt. Is this normal?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations!

 I placed an order for a wa22 on 11/5. Did you get a confirmation from Jack about the receipt of the order and an ETA? Or did you have to contact him for this?

 As a matter of fact I've gotten nothing so far except for the paypal receipt. Is this normal?

 Thanks in advance._

 

When I ordered my wa6 over a year ago, I got no order conformation. I emailed Jack a few days later asking him how long I would have to wait for my order. He promptly responded telling me it would take 6 weeks. He was right on the money with his estimate...

 Edit: It was 5 weeks, not 6. My mind is going south


----------



## zionic

I emailed Jack to ask if any additional upgrades were available for the WA6 (before I ordered) then after I made my decision I asked him to send me a Paypal invoice. THat's when he told me the build time is three weeks. After making my Paypal pmt I did not get an email confirmation, but then I emailed him about what DACs he recommends and I got a pretty quick reply.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I ordered my wa6 over a year ago, I got no order conformation. I emailed Jack a few days later asking him how long I would have to wait for my order. He promptly responded telling me it would take 6 weeks. He was right on the money with his estimate..._

 

Whenever I email Jack about a question he usually responds within 24 hours. Yesterday I emailed him a question about using a 4-pin adapter on the WA6 / WA22 and he responded the same day. By the way, this was the email:

 Q: With an adapter may I use these 4-pin rectifiers in place of the 5AR4 the WA6 and WA22?

 #80
 274A
 5Z3.

 A: Yes, they will work. We used to have the adapters but I will have to find them. --Jack

 He's always been very responsive and very helpful.


----------



## MooBin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sent payment for a Woo 3+ severely modified. OK from the top I ordered the *Teflon tube sockets upgrade, Blackgates upgrade, FI-03 Rhodium FURUTECH , and the WBT panel mount RCA's, Have many audio grade fuses and a few power cables.

 Now what tubes to order? Any Suggestions?
*_

 

Oh yes:
*5998 Tungsol 1963 plus two Philips ECC88 Holland "A" frame getter 1975 is my suggestion.*

 Maybe you would like to read my thread entitled "Woo Audio 3+ experience" (which I will update soon after a long time being absent) ? In this thread I have discussed several tube combinations for the WA3+. The one mentioned above is most likely to be the winner of all.


----------



## zionic

In preparation of the arrival of my WA6 which should be coming in a couple weeks I purchased a Volex power cable. I got a little bit of a longer one (9 foot) in order to reach directly to the wall outlet. The wall outlet only has 2 receptacles; one is used for a cheap power strip the table lamp, alarm clock, etc, so I have the other receptacle for the WA6. However I am planning to get a Squeezebox and a DacMagic to use with the WA6. So my question is this – should I plug the Squeezebox and the DAC into the cheap power strip and the WA6 directly into the wall, or should I get some kind of power conditioner? (If so what model is recommended?) If I get a power conditioner what components will benefit most from it – the WA6 and the DacMagic?


----------



## zionic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bialystok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The MAP is 429 but according the sales rep I spoke to at an audiophile shop north of philadelphia they markup the audio equipment by as much as 60% especially the higher end stuff. He basically just offered it to me for 350 - but I'm positive if you call one of the places on google shopping they'd give you that price._

 

Thanks for the tip, I did a google shopping search and got 4 results. I randomly tried the 2nd one and they said no way $429 is the price. Then I tried the 4th one and they said $399 so I asked them for $350 - they countered with $375 shipped - so I went for it!! I am looking forward to recieving it probably next week.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MooBin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh yes:
*5998 Tungsol 1963 plus two Philips ECC88 Holland "A" frame getter 1975 is my suggestion.*

 Maybe you would like to read my thread entitled "Woo Audio 3+ experience" (which I will update soon after a long time being absent) ? In this thread I have discussed several tube combinations for the WA3+. The one mentioned above is most likely to be the winner of all._

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I did find some Amperex Bugle Boy 6dj8's 70 bucks matched and shipped. Will order those next week. How much are those *5998 Tungsol's? *And where can you find them?


----------



## Ozer

I'm getting a pair of Sennheiser HD650 next week and some weeks after that I want to buy a fitting amp for them.... Do you think Woo Audio 6 will be a good choice for my Sennheisers ?? I don't know much about the Woo Audio, but the amp should not be too bright and should be good for the music like: Paramore, Kings Of Leon, Green Day, Linkin Park, Bloc Party etc.... 

 It's maybe hard to answer that question, but atleast tell me if it's good with the Senn's and if it is bright or more warmer sounding.... (I didn't like the brightness my Grado RS2 gave me...)

 If someone of you own both the WA6 and the Sennheiser HD650.... Please listen to the bands I mentioned before and tell me if you think it's a good combo.....


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The HD600 is perfect with my WA6 (sophia princess rectifier, pseudo dual power supply). I have never really liked the HD650 which I think is too dark and bassy. Food for thought.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ozer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm getting a pair of Sennheiser HD650 next week and some weeks after that I want to buy a fitting amp for them.... Do you think Woo Audio 6 will be a good choice for my Sennheisers ?? ... ..._

 

Excellent combination, been using hd650/WA6 combo well over a year and I love it as much or more than the day I bought it. Woo Audio makes very clean well built amps, excellent build quality, great sound quality, .... Yes it's warm, with excellent mids and doesn't really neglect the highs.

 Not a great review but honest, check the link below my sig, my thoughts a year ago, I haven't gone back to update or change the writing but I'm still extreemly happy with my combo


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, WilCox, you own a very nice piece of Woo circuitry. I ordered a WA22 with teflon sockets the first week of October. It should be in my clutches in a few weeks (I hope). What was your past bad experience with those sockets?_

 

It was a long time ago. We made X-ray fluorescence spectroscopy systems with 50kV to the X-ray tube. Had repeated failures with the teflon HV connector due to teflon "cold-flow". 

 I'm sure Jack's sockets are just fine -- technology marches forward.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_***
 After 3 weeks with the WA6 I've begun to notice a slight low-level hum coming from inside that box behind the 5AR4 socket. It's noticeable when I take my headphones off and am snooping around those beautiful glowing tubes. I can hear it from about a foot away from the unit. Definitely not a distraction but none of my other tube equipment emits that kind of hum. Just curious. That humming box feels normal to the touch (warm) and the hum only goes away when I turn it off hours later (never over 8 hours, of course). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ***_

 

Two weeks ago I received the Brimar 5Z4G rectifier I had ordered from England. I popped that sucker into my WA6 and guess what! NO HUM! To double-check this I switched back to the SED 5U3C stock rectifier and there was that HUM again. The rectifier that produced the loudest hum from both the transformer and headphones was the 5AR4 from China. Obviously I'm sticking with the Brimar 5Z4G for now. I bought it used, by the way, and I am extremely pleased.


----------



## sclamb

I has the same issue with a NOS 5U4G. Humming like crazy. Tried another and the hum disappeared.

 Simon


----------



## IceClass

New member here. My silver Woo 2 arrived today and so far all is most excellent.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whenever I email Jack about a question he usually responds within 24 hours. Yesterday I emailed him a question about using a 4-pin adapter on the WA6 / WA22 and he responded the same day. By the way, this was the email:

 Q: With an adapter may I use these 4-pin rectifiers in place of the 5AR4 the WA6 and WA22?

 #80
 274A
 5Z3.

 A: Yes, they will work. We used to have the adapters but I will have to find them. --Jack

 He's always been very responsive and very helpful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know a guy name Glenn make those adapters, and sell them on ebay. Good quality. I have 7 of different adapters form him with 0 problem.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zionic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In preparation of the arrival of my WA6 which should be coming in a couple weeks I purchased a Volex power cable. I got a little bit of a longer one (9 foot) in order to reach directly to the wall outlet. The wall outlet only has 2 receptacles; one is used for a cheap power strip the table lamp, alarm clock, etc, so I have the other receptacle for the WA6. However I am planning to get a Squeezebox and a DacMagic to use with the WA6. So my question is this – should I plug the Squeezebox and the DAC into the cheap power strip and the WA6 directly into the wall, or should I get some kind of power conditioner? (If so what model is recommended?) If I get a power conditioner what components will benefit most from it – the WA6 and the DacMagic?_

 

My WA22 sound better without power conditioner. I plug them in to wall that sound better (about 5% or more better IMHO), more clear, clean sounding.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I has the same issue with a NOS 5U4G. Humming like crazy. Tried another and the hum disappeared.

 Simon_

 

I bought NOS 5U4G (made in England), no hum, very clean from hour 1.


----------



## herroyuihk

Hello!Everyone
 Can I ask a question?
 I am using WA2 Maxed
 Right now! Where can I find excellent G.E.C 6AS7G?
 Even though I can find some Tungsol 5998 in Ebay, I want to try G.E.C first.....
 I tried RCA 6AS7 black and grey plate
 They are too soft.......


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *herroyuihk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello!Everyone
 Can I ask a question?
 I am using WA2 Maxed
 Right now! Where can I find excellent G.E.C 6AS7G?
 Even though I can find some Tungsol 5998 in Ebay, I want to try G.E.C first.....
 I tried RCA 6AS7 black and grey plate
 They are too soft.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good luck on GEC. They show up on ebay once every half year or so. I just got my 2 pair for $327.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well, it's been a little bit over two months (two very long months) and today I got an e-mail saying that my WA22 has shipped! I'm betting it'll be here by the weekend... oh man I am so excited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 I haven't had a music listening session for a little over 1.5 months just because of my anticipation for the WA22. I'll be sure to post lots of pics and my impressions with the D7000.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Same here. Have not listened to headphones for a few weeks anticipating my Woo amp coming.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it's been a little bit over two months (two very long months) and today I got an e-mail saying that my WA22 has shipped! I'm betting it'll be here by the weekend... oh man I am so excited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I haven't had a music listening session for a little over 1.5 months just because of my anticipation for the WA22. I'll be sure to post lots of pics and my impressions with the D7000._

 

Two months, wow. I'm on week 6. Boo hoo. Looks like I've got another 2-week wait. Oh well. All the sweeter when it arrives! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes! Pics and impressions will be very welcome here! Thanks.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two months, wow. I'm on week 6. Boo hoo. Looks like I've got another 2-week wait. Oh well. All the sweeter when it arrives! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes! Pics and impressions will be very welcome here! Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Clayton,

 When you get yours, I want to see internal pictures or else my buddy Caltiki will get you! (personal joke)

 Glenntiki


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clayton,

 When you get yours, I want to see internal pictures or else my buddy Caltiki will get you! (personal joke)

 Glenntiki_

 

Yes, Glenntiki:

 I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to photograph the internals of the WA22 (The Immortal Headphone Amp). Just don't sic Caltiki on me! Aaaahhhhh!

 Max


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, Glenntiki:

 I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to photograph the internals of the WA22 (The Immortal Headphone Amp). Just don't sic Caltiki on me! Aaaahhhhh!

 Max




_

 

What does this have to do with Woo Headphone amps? LOL!

Caltiki


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does this have to do with Woo Headphone amps? LOL!

Caltiki_

 

Simply that Woo Amps are one the greatest headphone amps in the world!

 "It grows, multiplies
 and dissolves human beings!" (Okay, maybe not that part.)

 I just thought that I'd inject a little levity and comic relief into this thread.

 AND I'M GETTING MY WA22 IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS!

 Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

 Sorry--anticipation. Experiencing premature, over-the-top enthusiasm over my WA22!)


----------



## jeycam

Haha, that's awesome. I'm actually thinking of getting a WA amp too. Which one would you recommend for K701 and HD800 in the future? WA6SE or WA2?


----------



## immtbiker

I currently have a WES on order, but the delivery date has been pushed back a month, and I have a RSA Thunderbolt sitting in my bedroom as we speak and like we are born and die in diapers, I find my patience level for waiting for specialty toys is falling by the wayside, back into "kid at Christmas mode".

 Immature, I know. But it is, what it is.


----------



## LionPlushie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jeycam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, that's awesome. I'm actually thinking of getting a WA amp too. Which one would you recommend for K701 and HD800 in the future? WA6SE or WA2?_

 

WA6SE with all the upgrades.


----------



## donunus

I might be next to join in the woo club. What woo amp should I get to drive senn hd580s/600s and get the best bang for the buck. Do I have to start with at least a wa2 or will a wa6 do to get the most out of my cans at the lowest cost possible


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simply that Woo Amps are one the greatest headphone amps in the world!_

 

Mighty bold statement. That's like saying that Mercedes are one of the greatest cars in the world. There are too many, with the same quality and detail to make a statement like that. I really like the Wu family and have a great amount of respect for their credo and craftsmanship, but there's a lot of fish in the sea.

 I buy from Jack because what he is, and what he believes in (besides the fact that his amps sound damn good) but there are plenty of others riding the same boat to the Immtbiker household. 

 @abtglen, you should have come to the NYC meet last weekend!


----------



## LionPlushie

@immtbiker

 You purchased all the upgrades along with your WA6SE? Or just the WA6SE?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@immtbiker

 You purchased all the upgrades along with your WA6SE? Or just the WA6SE?_

 

It's a WES electrostat amp. And Jack has everything upgraded in the base model except fo $2K worth of Blackgates that I'd probably be dead before they reached their potential


----------



## jeycam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WA6SE with all the upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I doubt I could afford it. The WA6SE + custom fees os even a bit too expensive, but well - I think I could afford it, but nothing else.


----------



## LionPlushie

Just starve for a year and get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Once and for all.


----------



## IceClass

Heck. Now I got a 2, I want a 5.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heck. Now I got a 2, I want a 5._

 

Hail. Now I got a 6, and I just got a 22.

 I'm checking into the Betty Ford Woo Clinic.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just starve for a year and get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once and for all._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heck. Now I got a 2, I want a 5._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently have a WES on order, but the delivery date has been pushed back a month, and I have a RSA Thunderbolt sitting in my bedroom as we speak and like we are born and die in diapers, I find my patience level for waiting for specialty toys is falling by the wayside, back into "kid at Christmas mode".

 Immature, I know. But it is, what it is._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hail. Now I got a 6, and I just got a 22.

 I'm checking into the Betty Ford Woo Clinic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

*Damn* head-fi!! I was so happy listening to my iPod and earbuds!! Ignorance is *BLISS*!! Since I stumbled with headwize and head-fi I've spent too much money !! Now I have a hand-built, all-tube (Woo) amp for my HEADPHONES !?!? ... 

 And this people talking about their electrostat cans and amps are not making it any easier... today I even started considering asking for a 2 to 3 year bank loan to buy a Woo GES + Stax SR-007's (I'd need a mortgage style loan to get a WES+SR-007) !?!?! ... aren't those loans to like remodel your house or make the downpayment for a car!??!?! Here I am considering using it for HEADPHONES!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa............


----------



## LionPlushie

@the_equalizer

 Hand-built Woo amp? Meaning you built it or?


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@the_equalizer

 Hand-built Woo amp? Meaning you built it or?_

 

meaning his woo was built by hand.. mr woo's hands


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_meaning his woo was built by hand.. mr woo's hands_

 

Glad to hear the good gentleman doesn't build them with his feet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just tried costing shipping a Woo 5 to Ice Station Zebra and gagged.
 Ouch!


----------



## immtbiker

If you're over 50, you can get an AARP card.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Why are you doing this to me?!!!!?!?!?

 Processed through Sort Facility, November 19, 2009, 12:27 am, OAKLAND, CA 94615
 Electronic Shipping Info Received, November 18, 2009
 Processed through Sort Facility, November 17, 2009, 8:14 pm, BETHPAGE, NY 11714

 I live in MA! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are you doing this to me?!!!!?!?!?

 Processed through Sort Facility, November 19, 2009, 12:27 am, OAKLAND, CA 94615
 Electronic Shipping Info Received, November 18, 2009
 Processed through Sort Facility, November 17, 2009, 8:14 pm, BETHPAGE, NY 11714

 I live in MA! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhh X2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Although I share your pain and confusion, I can't help but think that yours is AT LEAST ON ITS WAY!
 Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhh X2


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're over 50, you can get an AARP card. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Who's over 50? What's an AARP card??


----------



## Suprfly2k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jeycam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, that's awesome. I'm actually thinking of getting a WA amp too. Which one would you recommend for K701 and HD800 in the future? WA6SE or WA2?_

 

As I write, I'm enjoying a 1st pressing of Led Zep III with my 701's and WA6SE with premium parts (no teflon, no stepped attenuator), EML 274b mesh, and am very happy with my choice.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who's over 50? What's an AARP card?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Present


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I write, I'm enjoying a 1st pressing of Led Zep III with my 701's and WA6SE with premium parts (no teflon, no stepped attenuator), EML 274b mesh, and am very happy with my choice.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

1st Pressing? Where in the world did you get a fresh copy of Led Zep III? Mine is a bit worn but I still enjoy it.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@the_equalizer

 Hand-built Woo amp? Meaning you built it or?_

 

Meaning Woo amps are put together by hand, even the transformers are hand-wound; thus the build time requiered for them. Take a look here.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I write, I'm enjoying a 1st pressing of Led Zep III with my 701's and WA6SE with premium parts (no teflon, no stepped attenuator), EML 274b mesh, and am very happy with my choice.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have only a WA6 (not SE) and I love the combination with my 701's too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... still I wonder how those SR-007 sound with a GES and HeadRoom's Micro DAC...


----------



## pzm9pzm9

I know it is okay to change headphones while the volume is low. Is this same for GES Stax?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Man, hopefully all I have is one more week before the my amp is shipped. Reading Woo threads and buying tubes has been getting me through the wait. Picked up a pair of Jan Phillips 6922's, RCA 6922's on the way, and a Sylvania 7236. Looking for a Tung sol 5998 without paying a bundle and some more tubes.What else is everybody else been doing to get through the wait?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Meaning Woo amps are put together by hand, even the transformers are hand-wound; thus the build time requiered for them. Take a look here.



 I have only a WA6 (not SE) and I love the combination with my 701's too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... still I wonder how those SR-007 sound with a GES and HeadRoom's Micro DAC..._

 

HR Micro DAC > GES with GE "wurlitzer" or Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7 > SR-007 is a good match with good synergy.

 Also, for you HE-5 lovers out there - my maxed WA6 (non-SE) with pseudo dual power supply and sophia princess 274b does a very nice job driving the new Head-direct HE-5 orthodynamic phones, despite their reputation for being difficult phones to drive.


----------



## TheAudioDude

......

 Your item was delivered at 10:28 AM on November 19, 2009 in DUBLIN, CA 94568.

 Detailed Results:

 Delivered, November 19, 2009, 10:28 am, DUBLIN, CA 94568
 Arrival at Post Office, November 19, 2009, 9:15 am, SAN RAMON, CA 94583
 Processed through Sort Facility, November 19, 2009, 12:27 am, OAKLAND, CA 94615
 Electronic Shipping Info Received, November 18, 2009
 Processed through Sort Facility, November 17, 2009, 8:14 pm, BETHPAGE, NY 11714

 I sent an e-mail to Woo to see if they can do anything about this. I'm incredibly busy at work so I'll have to wait to call USPS...


----------



## jc9394

^^^Is it possible that Woo Audio sent you an wrong tracking by mistake?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_......

 Your item was delivered at 10:28 AM on November 19, 2009 in DUBLIN, CA 94568.

 Detailed Results:

 Delivered, November 19, 2009, 10:28 am, DUBLIN, CA 94568
 Arrival at Post Office, November 19, 2009, 9:15 am, SAN RAMON, CA 94583
 Processed through Sort Facility, November 19, 2009, 12:27 am, OAKLAND, CA 94615
 Electronic Shipping Info Received, November 18, 2009
 Processed through Sort Facility, November 17, 2009, 8:14 pm, BETHPAGE, NY 11714

 I sent an e-mail to Woo to see if they can do anything about this. I'm incredibly busy at work so I'll have to wait to call USPS..._

 


 I hope you were given the wrong tracking number instead of your amp being delivered to the wrong address. If I remember correctly, I had to sign for mine when it was delivered. Obviously, I hope everything turns out fine for you. I've got my fingers crossed...



 Glenn


----------



## TheAudioDude

Whew! Crisis averted..

 The link he sent me had the right tracking number in the address, but when I clicked it, it routed me to a different tracking number. Unfortunately, I won't be home to sign for it but hopefully the postman just leaves it by the mailboxes at my apartment. Jack said it should arrive today


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whew! Crisis averted..

 The link he sent me had the right tracking number in the address, but when I clicked it, it routed me to a different tracking number. Unfortunately, I won't be home to sign for it but hopefully the postman just leaves it by the mailboxes at my apartment. Jack said it should arrive today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Excellent! I'll bet you're mega excited. They may not leave it without a signature. I'd give the post office a call if I were you and pick it there just to be safe. I wouldn't feel comfortable having an expensive package just being left at my door. 
 Glenn


----------



## gt67

I have a pair of HD650's and will be ordering a WA6 with the pdps upgrade in the next couple of days.

 I would have preferred the WA6SE but finances dictate and I have to go for the WA6

 This will be my 1st dedicated headphone amp and I am really looking forward to getting it


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gt67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of HD650's and will be ordering a WA6 with the pdps upgrade in the next couple of days.

 I would have preferred the WA6SE but finances dictate and I have to go for the WA6

 This will be my 1st dedicated headphone amp and I am really looking forward to getting it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have that combo. I think you'll love it.


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_covenant, if you want to make use of the 6fd7 on your wa6SE amp, this is all you need
 to have done on it. replace the circled capacitors with one rated at 200volts. the ones
 in your amp now is rated at 100v only. you're hearing the crackling/popping
 sound when the voltage at the cathode plate exceed the rating of the cap.

 the capacitance value should be similar at 470uf. it's not crucial that it is the same
 but within 40% of the value is recommended. this cap influences the SQ 
 immensely, so getting one of high quality is important. panasonic TS-ED series 
 caps are excellent. (if you're using blackgates, then the non-polar N-series is
 highly recommended. it's a 220uf/160v cap.)

 any competant technician can do this in less than 30 minutes.
 or have it sent in back to wooaudio to make use of the warranty.




_

 

I have swapped those caps and It seems the amp works well with 6FD7, no crackling or popping sound. Thanks Takezo!


----------



## RayfromTX

At 7am I picked up my WA6SE maxxed from the usps. The wait was 6 weeks. I told all my crews to not bother showing up today since it was going to rain all day. The good news was the notice when I got home that said the woo was at the po. Up at 5:30, reloaded squeezebox server to take care of that problem, out the door at 20 to seven to be at the post office when they opened. Detoured around the flooded creeks. I guess the historic drought is over. 

 I hooked it up to my modded PSAudio DL3. It's fed by the squeezebox and a sony transport. Plugged in the GS1000i and gave a listen.

 First the bad part, just to get it out of the way. After all the comments about great build quality, I have to say it just aint so. Thick pieces of aluminum do not equal great build quality. I mean it can't just stop there. I am in the business of building perfection. My stainless countertops are perfect. My trim work is perfect. My tile work is perfect. This amp is just ok. The back plate has a ding in one corner where it was probably dropped prior to assembly. There are tiny nicks or possibly inclusions in the surfaces of the top plates. The back plates meet the sides inconsistently with reveals that vary by perhaps .040. All this is superficial and is not to be judged as poor quality. It just isn't great. The PSA DL3 sitting next to it has better detailing. So does the Sony cd transport for that matter. What the Woo has is big heavy chunks of aluminum that have been nicely milled by a cnc or mill. The last gripe is that the cut outs around the output tubes aren't even close to centered on the tube sockets. They missed this by perhaps 1/8" or 1/16" center to center. Stand back and look and it is very nice to look at. It is only up close that the nits can be picked.

 Now to the sound. I like it. I'm using stock tubes for the break in. On first power up, it was not at all impressive, but that was not surprising. After an hour it was very enjoyable but not mindblowing. After 4 hours it is starting to open up a little and is approaching the level of my speaker setup. It can only get better from here. I'll be running it hard for 8 hours at a stretch until I get around 600 hours on it before I spring for a Sophia Princess.

 The upsides so far with the Grados are well managed bass, highs that are clear but not overly bright and a very well balanced presentation in the midrange. One very very nice thing about this setup is how good it sounds at low listening levels. It doesn't get all washed out when the volume knob is below 9:00. This measures at around 70db and even at that level the sound is still full and complete and involving.

 That's the good and the bad so far. Pictures to follow. I'm really liking it so far.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gt67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of HD650's and will be ordering a WA6 with the pdps upgrade in the next couple of days.

 I would have preferred the WA6SE but finances dictate and I have to go for the WA6

 This will be my 1st dedicated headphone amp and I am really looking forward to getting it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have that combo. I think you'll love it._

 

Just like Glentiki, I mean atbglenn, I have that combo too and it is an incredible pairing--like soup & sandwich, peanut butter & jelly, Led & Zeppelin (WHAT?). ENJOY!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just like Glentiki, I mean atbglenn, I have that combo too and it is an incredible pairing--like soup & sandwich, peanut butter & jelly, Led & Zeppelin (WHAT?). ENJOY!_

 

Get it straight Claytune, That's Glenntiki with 2 n's pal


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get it straight Claytune, That's Glenntiki with 2 n's pal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Eeeeeeek! I am so sorry Glenn. I was concentrating on being funny and I misspelled your name. How could I do that? Gawd, that was stupid. Now Caltiki will get me for sure. Aaaahhhhhhhhhh. Squirt (no flesh, just bones and a skull). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway. I am still waiting for my WA22. Waiting on Woo. Waiting on Woo. Waiting on Woo.

 When it arrives I will lock myself in my room and never come out. At least until I accept another tube delivery from the UPS guy.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just bought a set of Herbie's Tube Dampers for my Woo in Waiting. Who knows all the stuff I will have for the amp by the time it gets here?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At 7am I picked up my WA6SE maxxed from the usps. The wait was 6 weeks. I told all my crews to not bother showing up today since it was going to rain all day. The good news was the notice when I got home that said the woo was at the po. Up at 5:30, reloaded squeezebox server to take care of that problem, out the door at 20 to seven to be at the post office when they opened. Detoured around the flooded creeks. I guess the historic drought is over. 

 I hooked it up to my modded PSAudio DL3. It's fed by the squeezebox and a sony transport. Plugged in the GS1000i and gave a listen.

 First the bad part, just to get it out of the way. After all the comments about great build quality, I have to say it just aint so. Thick pieces of aluminum do not equal great build quality. I mean it can't just stop there. I am in the business of building perfection. My stainless countertops are perfect. My trim work is perfect. My tile work is perfect. This amp is just ok. The back plate has a ding in one corner where it was probably dropped prior to assembly. There are tiny nicks or possibly inclusions in the surfaces of the top plates. The back plates meet the sides inconsistently with reveals that vary by perhaps .040. All this is superficial and is not to be judged as poor quality. It just isn't great. The PSA DL3 sitting next to it has better detailing. So does the Sony cd transport for that matter. What the Woo has is big heavy chunks of aluminum that have been nicely milled by a cnc or mill. The last gripe is that the cut outs around the output tubes aren't even close to centered on the tube sockets. They missed this by perhaps 1/8" or 1/16" center to center. Stand back and look and it is very nice to look at. It is only up close that the nits can be picked.

 Now to the sound. I like it. I'm using stock tubes for the break in. On first power up, it was not at all impressive, but that was not surprising. After an hour it was very enjoyable but not mindblowing. After 4 hours it is starting to open up a little and is approaching the level of my speaker setup. It can only get better from here. I'll be running it hard for 8 hours at a stretch until I get around 600 hours on it before I spring for a Sophia Princess.

 The upsides so far with the Grados are well managed bass, highs that are clear but not overly bright and a very well balanced presentation in the midrange. One very very nice thing about this setup is how good it sounds at low listening levels. It doesn't get all washed out when the volume knob is below 9:00. This measures at around 70db and even at that level the sound is still full and complete and involving.

 That's the good and the bad so far. Pictures to follow. I'm really liking it so far._

 

I am not familiar with the burn-in on the 6le, I have a 5le and a 3 and both really changed after time. I would say they got 1/3 better in sound after burn-in. They get better in the bass dept., more detail and lower bass. The sound just gets more warm overall. Hope you enjoy yours.


----------



## Covenant

Here's something odd. Have any of you tried Senn HD6x0's out of the *low* impedance jack of the WA6SE?

 For some odd reason, it seems to be cleaner/clearer than the high impedance jack. Shellyh commented on this with her HD800 a while ago, and I just never got around to trying it, but I'm listening out of the low impedance jack at the moment and methinks there's an improvement.

 Why would that be?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's something odd. Have any of you tried Senn HD6x0's out of the *low* impedance jack of the WA6SE?

 For some odd reason, it seems to be cleaner/clearer than the high impedance jack. Shellyh commented on this with her HD800 a while ago, and I just never got around to trying it, but I'm listening out of the low impedance jack at the moment and methinks there's an improvement.

 Why would that be? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had never thought of trying that with my HD650s on my WA6. I always listen to the HD650 on high. Mehopes for an improvement too. Always trying to squeeze more out of what Igots! Thanks.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least until I accept another tube delivery from the UPS guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dude that sounds so wrong...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm picking up my amp in about ten minutes! Luckily the post office is only a few miles away from my apartment. I'll post pictures and first impressions once I get out of my music coma.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, nice review, Ray. Very honest and straight-forward. It makes me look forward to hearing how the WA22 changes over time. With a solid state amp, what you hear is what you get. But with a tube amp you can almost tailor the sound to your liking. Long live tubes!


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's something odd. Have any of you tried Senn HD6x0's out of the *low* impedance jack of the WA6SE?

 For some odd reason, it seems to be cleaner/clearer than the high impedance jack. Shellyh commented on this with her HD800 a while ago, and I just never got around to trying it, but I'm listening out of the low impedance jack at the moment and methinks there's an improvement.

 Why would that be? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Will give it a try tonight and see if the HD650's have an improvement through the low impedance jack.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_***
 When it arrives I will lock myself in my room and never come out. At least until I accept another tube delivery from the UPS guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude that sounds so wrong...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I didn't understand what you meant when you said it "sounds so wrong" until I re-read that line for the 3rd time. You're right, it does sound a bit twisted--so I shall rewrite it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "When [my WA22] arrives I will lock myself in my room and never come out. At least until I *[size=small]sign for another package of valves from the mail woman."[/size]*

 Oops. I think that's worse.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't understand what you meant when you said it "sounds so wrong" until I re-read that line for the 3rd time. You're right, it does sound a bit twisted--so I shall rewrite it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "When [my WA22] arrives I will lock myself in my room and never come out. At least until I *[size=small]sign for another package of valves from the mail woman."[/size]*

 Oops. I think that's worse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Holy moly! A mail woman huh? I'll keep my comments to myself.


----------



## TheAudioDude

It's here! Man, this thing is heavier than I expected. It was packed very well; I'd expect it to be in perfect condition if the mail_person_ accidentally dropped it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I took some pictures and made an album:

Woo Audio WA22 :: Box picture by theaudiodude - Photobucket






 Impressions will be written sometime today...


----------



## atbglenn

AudioDudePerson,

 All I can say is WOW!! Thanks for taking internal shots. Looks fantastic!! I'm sure you'll love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AudioDudePerson,

 All I can say is WOW!! Thanks for taking internal shots. Looks fantastic!! I'm sure you'll love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn_

 

O M G
 O M G
 O M G
 O M G
 I T h a n k you TOO
 for the internal shots!!! x1000.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AudioDudePerson,

 All I can say is WOW!! Thanks for taking internal shots. Looks fantastic!! I'm sure you'll love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_O M G
 O M G
 O M G
 O M G
 I T h a n k you TOO
 for the internal shots!!! x1000._

 

X 2, thanks for the shots, AudioDude.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well I've been listening for a little while and I'll give my initial impressions.

 First off, I think this amp has a little ways to go (burn-in wise) before it sounds absolutely perfect. Don't get me wrong, it sounds extraordinary; but any amp you buy won't exceed your expectations the first time you power it on. I really want to buy new tubes now!

 There is actually a tiny bit of hum, barely even perceptible. If I turn the volume to the max, I can hear it more clearly but I have heard people say that certain tubes can cause this.

 I'm itching to go balanced as soon as possible. Listening to my first few songs, it sounded like the right channel was a tad bit louder than the left channel. This could be a few things; my ear is clogged with wax, I'm used to my old stereo amp (which actually has the right channel cutting out very frequently, therefore the left channel was probably always a bit louder than the right), or that my ears just need to adjust to how the music really is (again, my old stereo amp is what I'm used to and coming from). It is definitely not the WA22 that is at fault. As I continued to listen, it seemed to 'balance' out a bit. Perhaps the tubes themselves just needed to warm up for a little while and my ears had to adjust.

 The very next thing I noticed was how incredibly smooth the music is. It's as if the amp added a layer of emotion around everything. Now, I'm going to say that the music sounds like it has slowed down a bit, but don't take this the wrong way (all you people who like to hear that an amp is fast or quick). This is slow in a good way. Every instrument sounds like it should; drums are 'quick' and guitars are the same (Dream Theater is nicely handled), but it's as if the music is just flowing out of my headphones rather than being pushed out. On very emotional and smooth songs, this is just freaking amazing. Brain Damage by Pink Floyd sent shivers up my spine. The bass line was extremely well controlled and 'hidden' in the music... but when it was brought forward, it was really something incredible.

 I think this amp is very well suited for a laid-back type of music. I hate to say this, but listening to something like Rush didn't impress me the way that the Grateful Dead and Pink Floyd did. I'm sure different tubes will remedy that.

 Coming from my old solid state amp, the bass is more defined and the voices are no longer in-your-face type of loud. I wouldn't describe the sound as mellow or laid back, just more even and a bit smoothed out. I am looking forward to hearing what this amp sounds like after it's been played for many hours.


----------



## pedalhead

Thanks for the internal shots, I haven't been brave enough to open mine up yet (too busy listening!). Some really tidy work there, which I understand is par for the course with Woo.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Alright, I think I've determined what the problem is with the left and right channel. If I plug the amp into one surge protector, the right channel is a bit louder than the left and there's basically no hum. If I plug it into the other surge protector, there is more hum but the channels are equal. Hmmmm


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy moly! *A mail woman huh?* I'll keep my comments to myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_


----------



## jc9394

Anyone tried Shuguang 274B? Looks interesting and fairly cheap.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, I think I've determined what the problem is with the left and right channel. If I plug the amp into one surge protector, the right channel is a bit louder than the left and there's basically no hum. If I plug it into the other surge protector, there is more hum but the channels are equal. Hmmmm_

 

Now trying to figure out why your amp is doing what it is doing instead of enjoying the music would drive me batty! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck and thanks for keeping us in the loop.


----------



## WalkGood

TheAudioDude looks great, tks for the pics and I'm sure it sounds great too, I know my WA6 does. BTW, how is it when you take the surge protector out of the equation?


----------



## RayfromTX

Theaudiodude-
 Have you measured the volume from each side with a decibel meter? Perhaps you could generate a test tone and try both sides.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Larry Larry Larry, I guess my joke backfired. My mind isn't exactly what you call normal. I think I'll leave it at that


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Theaudiodude-
 Have you measured the volume from each side with a decibel meter? Perhaps you could generate a test tone and try both sides._

 

Unfortunately I don't have a dB meter. I just switched both the power and drive tubes and now it sounds much better. Perhaps I just had a bad connection in the tube sockets and they needed to be re-seated? I doubt I have a bad tube since the problem would travel, meaning that the left side would be louder, but it did not.

 The hum has not gone away though. The first time I turned on the amp, there was absolutely no hum. It was dead silent. Does anyone think that the tubes are the cause of the hum? I tried plugging it into both surge protectors, a wall socket, and a wall socket with no ground, and the hum is still there.

 On a side note, when I turn the volume up to about 4 o'clock, I start to hear a buzzing, and once the volume knob is near 5 o'clock it's clear that the buzzing is only in the left channel. I plugged the amp into a different surge protector and the buzzing becomes apparent at about 2.5-3 o'clock, but it is clearly now in BOTH channels. So I'm pretty sure that this buzzing isn't my amp's fault, but that the wiring in my apartment is sub-par. I never listen to the amp at that volume anyways, but I'm still questioning that hum.


----------



## IceClass




----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately I don't have a dB meter. I just switched both the power and drive tubes and now it sounds much better. Perhaps I just had a bad connection in the tube sockets and they needed to be re-seated? I doubt I have a bad tube since the problem would travel, meaning that the left side would be louder, but it did not.

 The hum has not gone away though. The first time I turned on the amp, there was absolutely no hum. It was dead silent. Does anyone think that the tubes are the cause of the hum? I tried plugging it into both surge protectors, a wall socket, and a wall socket with no ground, and the hum is still there.

 On a side note, when I turn the volume up to about 4 o'clock, I start to hear a buzzing, and once the volume knob is near 5 o'clock it's clear that the buzzing is only in the left channel. I plugged the amp into a different surge protector and the buzzing becomes apparent at about 2.5-3 o'clock, but it is clearly now in BOTH channels. So I'm pretty sure that this buzzing isn't my amp's fault, but that the wiring in my apartment is sub-par. I never listen to the amp at that volume anyways, but I'm still questioning that hum._

 

Hey TheAudioDude, in all due respect--should you really be spending that much time troubleshooting a $2,000+ amp? Call Jack and find out what's going on. The time you've spent tinkering with the channel balance versus enjoying a high-end headphone amp that you've waited more than 6 WEEKS for is also slightly imbalanced. I'd call Jack.

 I hope my WA22 doesn't take me away from my music. Mine should be arriving in about 2 weeks. By then we'll be able to compare productive notes and share them with everyone.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey TheAudioDude, in all due respect--should you really be spending that much time troubleshooting a $2,000+ amp? Call Jack and find out what's going on. The time you've spent tinkering with the channel balance versus enjoying a high-end headphone amp that you've waited more than 6 WEEKS for is also slightly imbalanced. I'd call Jack.

 I hope my WA22 doesn't take me away from my music. Mine should be arriving in about 2 weeks. By then we'll be able to compare productive notes and share them with everyone._

 

Well, you do have a good point there
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I like to tinker around with things and figure stuff out myself, it's kind of fun for me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, the balance issue seems to have gone away. I'm pretty certain the hum isn't being caused by the amp itself but I'm going to ask Jack what he thinks about it.

 Last night I stayed up until 330A.M. listening to music; I love this amp. I retract my statement that such music as Rush isn't well suited for this amp. ANY music is well suited for this amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It just keeps getting better.

 BTW, I'm going to be ordering XLR interconnects from BJC and I am ordering two 3-pin XLR connectors from Vampire Wire so I can go balanced. I'll let everyone know what kind of change I hear.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't want to make another post so I'll say it here... I'm listening to Nirvana's Unplugged In New York, an album I must have listened to at least 150 times since I was 7. Anyways, in the chorus in Plateau, I never knew that someone else was singing along with Kurt. This amp just adds a whole new dimension to music.


----------



## Redcarmoose

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/11...6/#post6176526



 We were in Newport at the Orange County Meet November 21st, 2009 10AM-5PM.


----------



## IceClass

Am I hallucinating or do I vaguely remember there being a fairly comprehensive thread on tube rolling the Woo 2?

 I've spent days on the search engine to no avail. Is there some kind soul who can put me out of my misery by confirming I'm nuts or providing a link?

 Apologies for the lameness.


----------



## RayfromTX

Forty hours in now and it's getting more clear and balanced in the midrange. At first there was a little weakness in the realism of the bass. It was a little thumpy. That is going away now and the bass is becoming more musical and real. The clarity lacks any harshness at all. The only thing lacking now from what I can tell is a more expansive sound stage. 

 I've been letting them play without me for several hours and then I'll put them on from time to time. There is a noticeable improvement as time goes on. I am noticing much more space in the presentation. I can hear more of the studio on some recordings. Vocals are very good on many of my recordings.


----------



## Seamaster

When I 1st get my WA22, there was little hiss at left channal. But it went away after 50 hours. @RayfromTX, check out my review, it will give you an idea ot two.

 Now I am very happy with WA22 untill Woo comes up with WA33.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I 1st get my WA22, there was little hiss at left channal. But it went away after 50 hours. @RayfromTX, check out my review, it will give you an idea ot two.

 Now I am very happy with WA22 untill Woo comes up with WA33._

 






 WA33! Yes!
 Oh wait, I haven't gotten my WA22 yet.
 Almost there... Almost there...


----------



## RayfromTX

Here is the promised pic of my new Woo. I apologize for the poor quality. It is from my iphone in bad light.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well I told Jack about the hum and he mentioned that my headphones (D7000), since they're sensitive they could pick up noises. He wants me to send the amp back so they can inspect it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I told Jack about the hum and he mentioned that my headphones (D7000), since they're sensitive they could pick up noises. He wants me to send the amp back so they can inspect it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey TheAudioDude--I am so sorry to hear that (no pun intended). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well at least enjoy your amp through the Thanksgiving weekend unless, of course, it's a distraction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 --Clayton


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey TheAudioDude--I am so sorry to hear that (no pun intended). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well at least enjoy your amp through the Thanksgiving weekend unless, of course, it's a distraction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 --Clayton_

 

Haha thanks, but I'm going to ship it back tomorrow. I'm going down to CT anyways for Thanksgiving. At least I'll be able to re-live the joy of unpacking it!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is the promised pic of my new Woo. I apologize for the poor quality. It is from my iphone in bad light.




_

 

A Woo under any light is good. Thanks for sharing. I have the PS Audio DL3 Cullen modded stage 4 as well. I see you are listening at 96kHz. They all look great in silver together.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha thanks, but I'm going to ship it back tomorrow. I'm going down to CT anyways for Thanksgiving. At least I'll be able to re-live the joy of unpacking it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your positive attitude should be had by all. I know the joys of unpacking parcels but to unpack that Woo again is nothing short of Shweeet!


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will give it a try tonight and see if the HD650's have an improvement through the low impedance jack._

 

How'd it go, dannie01?


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How'd it go, dannie01?_

 

I am not dannie01, but when I tried my 650s in the low impedance jack it sounded a bit thinner, can't say it was an improvement.


----------



## TheAudioDude

For what it's worth, I tried my D7000s while on the high-impedance setting and I don't know if I heard it wrong or what, but the bass seemed a bit loose and sloppy. It sounds like it's tighter and more defined on the low-impedance setting.


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For what it's worth, I tried my D7000s while on the high-impedance setting and I don't know if I heard it wrong or what, but the bass seemed a bit loose and sloppy. It sounds like it's tighter and more defined on the low-impedance setting._

 

I felt the same way.

 IIRC, relative to the headphone, having a higher source impedance is worse than it being lower concerning power transfer and efficiency.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not dannie01, but when I tried my 650s in the low impedance jack it sounded a bit thinner, can't say it was an improvement._

 

Hm, I hear it as an improvement in cleanness and clarity. Go go subjective hobbies!


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How'd it go, dannie01?_

 

Basically or may be I'm too old, I don't hear much different between the low and high output with the RAL cable.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know it is okay to change headphones while the volume is low. 
 <snip>_

 

Hmm.. I just saw this note in Woo's website FAQ section. Is there a risk of damaging the amp if changing 'phones with the volume up? Or is the risk that of blowing out your eardrums if changing to a high sensitivity set of cans?

 cheers!


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm.. I just saw this note in Woo's website FAQ section. Is there a risk of damaging the amp if changing 'phones with the volume up? Or is the risk that of blowing out your eardrums if changing to a high sensitivity set of cans?

 cheers!_

 

I think thats one reason. I also heard that not having a load on the output transformers is bad for them. I am not completely sure about this though.


----------



## regal

If I had one of these WA6's I would get rid of the Cathode follower stage and run 6Dj8's in parallel. Do a google search for cathode follower, it is hurting the SQ. May have to change the cathode bias, I would replace the resistor/capacitor with an appropriate LED. These changes should make this a ZD killer. I may buy one and do these mods as it is actually less expensive that starting from scratch, it is amazing to me how Woo builds such a quality product at these prices.


----------



## immtbiker

Jack has made it very clear, that he wants his stat amps turned completely off when swapping out headphones. As long as you do it right away, and the other headphone was plugged into a different stat amp, the you won't lose any charge when plugging it into the GES/WES after turning it back on.

 Ray Samuels must build his amps differently or use a different kind of protective circuit, because he says you can plug in headphones, even 2 at a time, and plug/unplug IC's in and out with the power turned on. He laughs at me whenever I turn off the amp to change headphones or IC's.
 ...and as long as he's the one who's going to fix it, I'll follow whatever he says.

 Jack doesn't want 2 headphones plugged into his amps at the same time.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack has made it very clear, that he wants his stat amps turned completely off when swapping out headphones. As long as you do it right away, and the other headphone was plugged into a different stat amp, the you won't lose any charge when plugging it into the GES/WES after turning it back on.

 Ray Samuels must build his amps differently or use a different kind of protective circuit, because he says you can plug in headphones, even 2 at a time, and plug/unplug IC's in and out with the power turned on. He laughs at me whenever I turn off the amp to change headphones or IC's.
 ...and as long as he's the one who's going to fix it, I'll follow whatever he says.

 Jack doesn't want 2 headphones plugged into his amps at the same time._

 

Interesting - it wasn't made very clear to me. I wonder what the reasons are for the "turn-off-before-change" and the "one-at-a-time" rules.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think thats one reason. I also heard that not having a load on the output transformers is bad for them. I am not completely sure about this though._

 

It is indeed bad to have AC flowing through a transformer's primary and no load in the secondary. Yet given that it would be *so* easy to damange the amp doing that, I thought the WA6 would include some kind of dummy load strapped across the secondary when no cans are connected.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack has made it very clear, that he wants his stat amps turned completely off when swapping out headphones. As long as you do it right away, and the other headphone was plugged into a different stat amp, the you won't lose any charge when plugging it into the GES/WES after turning it back on.

 Ray Samuels must build his amps differently or use a different kind of protective circuit, because he says you can plug in headphones, even 2 at a time, and plug/unplug IC's in and out with the power turned on. He laughs at me whenever I turn off the amp to change headphones or IC's.
 ...and as long as he's the one who's going to fix it, I'll follow whatever he says.

 Jack doesn't want 2 headphones plugged into his amps at the same time._

 

I should have been more clear in my post and stated that I was asking about a WA6... I don't own any stats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but I sure wish I did...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting - it wasn't made very clear to me. I wonder what the reasons are for the "turn-off-before-change" and the "one-at-a-time" rules._

 

It wasn't made very clear to me either in the PDF manual I got via e-mail when I bought my WA6. I guess the only way is to ask Jack directly.

 cheers!


----------



## nigeljames

I am starting to get a little concerned about the wherabouts of my amp (W6SE)
 The USPS web site has been stating that my package has the status of "Electronic Shipping Info Received" since the 19th November. Which means to me that either they have not updated the tracking for my delivery or they still have not collected from Woo yet. I have e-mail Woo 3 times over the last 3 days for confirmation that the package has actually been collected but have had no response!
 I am not worried at this time because I live in the UK and its not late yet but the fact that Woo have not responded to my e-mails is not good.

 Anyone else have any similar problems with USPS or Woo.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nigeljames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am starting to get a little concerned about the wherabouts of my amp (W6SE)
 The USPS web site has been stating that my package has the status of "Electronic Shipping Info Received" since the 19th November. Which means to me that either they have not updated the tracking for my delivery or they still have not collected from Woo yet. I have e-mail Woo 3 times over the last 3 days for confirmation that the package has actually been collected but have had no response!
 I am not worried at this time because I live in the UK and its not late yet but the fact that Woo have not responded to my e-mails is not good.

 Anyone else have any similar problems with USPS or Woo._

 

It take a while for USPS to update the tracking at times. Alternatively you can also use the shipping reference at Royal Mail's to verify the shipment.


----------



## nigeljames

Thanks for the response.
 The Royal Mail website states that you cannot track an item sent from abroad and my tracking number is not recognised on their system.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nigeljames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the response.
 The Royal Mail website states that you cannot track an item sent from abroad and my tracking number is not recognised on their system._

 

It should takes between 10 to 15 days to shipped from US to UK if I am not mistaken. I bet you paid for Priority Shipping right?


----------



## nigeljames

No I did not pay extra for priority shipping. I only paid for the standard USPS Express shipping method which should take 6-10 days (I assume that means working days).
 Like I said I am not concerned that it is late or overdue for delivery just the info on the USPS website says that they have not even collected it yet and Woo won't confirm whether they have or not. I would just like to know that its on its way!


----------



## pzm9pzm9

I guess best you can do to make sure is by calling them & ask. It will take less than 2 min.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It is kinda of weird that Jack didn't reply to the emails. Maybe it is Thanksgiving which causes the delay.


----------



## nigeljames

Thats a point never thought of that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is definately unusual he normally responds very quickly. Maybe thats also the reason USPS have no recent info on their site.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

but then the shipping info was received since last week. So I would think thanksgiving is not the reason.
 I have seen Jack from NY meet according to the pictures they posted up. So that might be the reason he couldn't answer.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I emailed Jack early Tuesday morning and have not heard anything back either.


----------



## nigeljames

I don't know if I am more concerned or not now!


----------



## BIG POPPA

Don't worry about it. His email spam filter could be acting up. Mine does from time to time. It's a holiday week? It could be one of a few things that could have happened? It is OK, you are not alone.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nigeljames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am starting to get a little concerned about the wherabouts of my amp (W6SE)
 The USPS web site has been stating that my package has the status of "Electronic Shipping Info Received" since the 19th November. Which means to me that either they have not updated the tracking for my delivery or they still have not collected from Woo yet. I have e-mail Woo 3 times over the last 3 days for confirmation that the package has actually been collected but have had no response!
 I am not worried at this time because I live in the UK and its not late yet but the fact that Woo have not responded to my e-mails is not good.

 Anyone else have any similar problems with USPS or Woo._

 

My experience with USPS was HORRIBLE when I bought my original WA6SE. The lag in updates is usually very long and it took (what felt like) forever for the amp to make it from New York to Indiana. I lost my cool a little bit during the process because I would have gladly paid for UPS or FedEx which have a useful tracking feature. Hang in there, I'm sure the amp is coming...


----------



## pzm9pzm9

and STAY AWAY from head-fi


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is kinda of weird that Jack didn't reply to the emails. Maybe it is Thanksgiving which causes the delay._

 

Jack and Co.went away for the week, which is why, I f I didn't get HPAs' WES back to Jack by Sunday night, he was told he would have to wait until after Thanksgiving to get his amp shipped to him after the holiday weekend.

 I can't stress enough what a sacrifice that Larry made by lending us his amp for last weekend's NYC mini stat shootout against Ray's A-10 and Kerry's homebuilt Blue Hawaii.

 I will definitely have to find a way to payback Larry, big time for his ultimate sacrifice so that 5 members could have a shootout. The difference between Larry's generosity and how callous other members can be when it comes to their equipment, would be a great demographic study to people in general. Some people hide the Snickers bar when lost at sea, and other's cut their's into small portions for all to share while waiting for the rescue boat to come. Larry is the latter. 

 The world needs more people like Headphoneaddict, and less Benedict Arnolds.

 Long story short (yeah, right) the Wu's have taken some time to themselves for a couple of days, and they deserve it. Answering e-mails shoild be the last thing on their list after the year that they've had. After the weekend, all will go back to normal.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with USPS was HORRIBLE when I bought my original WA6SE. The lag in updates is usually very long and it took (what felt like) forever for the amp to make it from New York to Indiana. I lost my cool a little bit during the process because I would have gladly paid for UPS or FedEx which have a useful tracking feature. Hang in there, I'm sure the amp is coming..._

 

Sorry to quote myself, but I wanted to add that Jack & Co were fantastic during this wait with USPS and were more than professional when I got a bit impatient. I'd like to think I learned a little something during that episode


----------



## Clayton SF

I ordered the WA22 eight weeks ago. A little over three weeks ago Jack emailed me that there would be a three-week delay so I should be getting it any week now. I haven't emailed him since November 3. I know he's busy so I'll just wait. If I don't hear from him in a couple of weeks I'll email him again. He's been very responsive when I email him questions.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with USPS was HORRIBLE when I bought my original WA6SE. The lag in updates is usually very long and it took (what felt like) forever for the amp to make it from New York to Indiana. I lost my cool a little bit during the process because I would have gladly paid for UPS or FedEx which have a useful tracking feature. Hang in there, I'm sure the amp is coming..._

 

I seldom choose USPS for high value order when FedEx option is available. I rather rather spend a little bit more for assurance in safer shipping to foreign land. I have several bad experience with USPS and UPS though. FedEx is my No.1 choice of carrier..


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just got notification from Jack my amp ships Tuesday. Next Weekend I will be Jammin!


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got notification from Jack my amp ships Tuesday. Next Weekend I will be Jammin!_

 

He must have been in email mode today...got notification my WA6 will go out next Monday or Tuesday!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

So it is safe and sounding soon... Enjoy the awesome WA products on arrival.


----------



## BIG POPPA

At least now I can stop buying things to pacify me until it comes. 3 pairs of 6dj8 variants, 1 Sylvania 7236, and a pair of Herbies Blackbery's for the 6dj8's and 1 Herbies Ultrasonic for the 7236. Now I will just buy some music until the amp comes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I emailed Jack early Tuesday morning and have not heard anything back either._

 

They went out of town on Tuesday for thanksgiving, so you barely made it out!


----------



## BIG POPPA

Hey HeadphoneAddict, the thought came to me that something like that happened. Was not going to let a fellow Head-fier feel alone in a moment of doubt. I can wait for a new toy. Been there, done that.


----------



## tosehee

Just ordered WA22 today. Sigh. Quoted 6+ weeks for this baby.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Now you have 5 weeks to buy you some stuff for your amp. Tubes tweaks and music. Go have some fun.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now you have 5 weeks to buy you some stuff for your amp. Tubes tweaks and music. Go have some fun._

 

I wish it's just 5 weeks. I was quoted 6+ weeks and possible delay with Christmas and New Year and what not. 

 I would think if it's not delivered in 5 weeks, it'll probably be 7+ weeks.


----------



## BIG POPPA

5 weeks plus shipping time. Jack is very good on estimating time. It will be very close on what he told you.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

2009 ending soon and the WA owners is growing fast....


----------



## zionic

My WA6 w/PDPS and 22/300V VCAP upgrade ships Monday as well, a little less than 4 weeks from order date.


----------



## immtbiker

Maybe it is just with the GES, But he was very specific to turn off the amp before changing headphones, and for optimum use only one stat should be plugged in, at a time.

 We'll let Jack chime in on this one,


----------



## Seamaster

When we going to have Seattle area meet? I am going to bring my gears in.


----------



## slayerizer

Been reading this forum and especially this thread for a while now and I'm finally a new owner of WA6 w/PDPS! Put my order through 2 weeks ago! Can't wait to finally get it within another week or so! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Going to pair it up with Onkyo DX-7555 CDP and Sennheiser HD650's


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slayerizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been reading this forum and especially this thread for a while now and I'm finally a new owner of WA6 w/PDPS! Put my order through 2 weeks ago! Can't wait to finally get it within another week or so! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Going to pair it up with Onkyo DX-7555 CDP and Sennheiser HD650's




_

 

Welcome to Head-fi and congrats on your purchase! I'm sure it will provide you many years of joy


----------



## Clayton SF

Who else amongst us is still awaiting the delivery of their WA22? I am on week 8 going on 9. The wait was a bit harder to take during the first few weeks but now I have been accepting of my plight and have spent my life savings on odds and ends (like tubes, tubes, and more tubes) just to while away the weeks in Woolimbo. I'm okay, really! I'm okay!


----------



## slayerizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to Head-fi and congrats on your purchase! I'm sure it will provide you many years of joy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks, can't wait to get the package already!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who else amongst us is still awaiting the delivery of their WA22? I am on week 8 going on 9. The wait was a bit harder to take during the first few weeks but now I have been accepting of my plight and have spent my life savings on odds and ends (like tubes, tubes, and more tubes) just to while away the weeks in Woolimbo. I'm okay, really! I'm okay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

9 weeks?????!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Instead of you killing time, it looks like time is killing you.


----------



## Seamaster

WA22 is getting popular, orders pile up the back door at Woo. Order time getting longer too. But you know what, lucky they are not like Singlepower!! Where I almost lost $7000 USD. Now I am more than happy with $2300 WA22 with pre out. It is worthy every penny for a pice of audio gear.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I'm eagerly awaiting the return of my WA22... it was delivered on Friday but I doubt they have had time to look at it over the weekend. Waiting nine weeks sucks, but do you know what it feels like to have the WA22 for a few days and then have to ship it back? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, I got my XLR cables on Saturday and I'm still waiting for the XLR terminations to ship from VampireWire. Maybe I'll be able to re-terminate my D7000 as soon as my amp comes back


----------



## breakfastchef

17 months after receiving my stock WA6 SE, it still is a solid, great-sounding headphone amp. I let it burn in for about a month and ordered a Sophia Princess 27B from Woo. After introducing this tube to the device, I was completely blown away. Sweet, detailed and lucious sound eminated from my HD650's. That said, I really felt the WA6 SE really took off when I introduced a Beresford TC-7510 DAC. You could introduce any DAC to the mix and effectively modify the sound footprint, but the 'Beresford, for me, woke up the sound from the WA6 SE. If the purist only listens to unadulterated sound from a source, they are missing some of the sonic improvements one can gain from an external processing device.


----------



## BIG POPPA

A very cool thing with Woo is you are able to custom order your amp quite a bit off the menu. Look at this Woo Audio 3+ High End Headphone Amplifier. Does it say you can get a Black Gate Cap upgrade? Or the WBT RCA upgrade? Nope. I even got the Furutech Rhodium IEC upgrade besides what is on the site. Just have to talk to Jack to see what he will do on your amp. To me that is great. I ordered the tubes from my sources though.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_9 weeks?????!_

 

Eek! Yes.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm eagerly awaiting the return of my WA22... it was delivered on Friday but I doubt they have had time to look at it over the weekend. Waiting nine weeks sucks, but do you know what it feels like to have the WA22 for a few days and then have to ship it back? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyways, I got my XLR cables on Saturday and I'm still waiting for the XLR terminations to ship from VampireWire. Maybe I'll be able to re-terminate my D7000 as soon as my amp comes back
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

SUPPORT GROUP! I know. 9 weeks. Well I ordered the WA22 the first week in October, which happened to be the start of the RMAF (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest) which Jack attended. So there was the first delay, albeit probably for only a few days if that. It was supposed to take 6 weeks to build. On November 3 I inquired about the delivery time and Jack told me that the WA22 was put on hold. They were waiting for a new chassis to be delivered in 3 weeks because they discovered the original chassis was defective; hence we arrive at the start of week 9. SO I hope it gets to my doorstep pretty soon otherwise I'll have to ask some of my close friends to help distract me. INTERVENTION!


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eek! Yes.

 SUPPORT GROUP! I know. 9 weeks. Well I ordered the WA22 the first week in October, which happened to be the start of the RMAF (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest) which Jack attended. So there was the first delay, albeit probably for only a few days if that. It was supposed to take 6 weeks to build. On November 3 I inquired about the delivery time and Jack told me that the WA22 was put on hold. They were waiting for a new chassis to be delivered in 3 weeks because they discovered the original chassis was defective; hence we arrive at the start of week 9. SO I hope it gets to my doorstep pretty soon otherwise I'll have to ask some of my close friends to help distract me. INTERVENTION! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Clayton, there's only one known cure for this...drinking
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, seriously...when I have to wait on gear I try to totally immerse myself in music. Seek out new artists, buy new albums, listen until I can't listen anymore. I keep telling myself I'm creating new playlists for when I finally get to listen to my new (fill in the blank). Good luck!


----------



## tosehee

That's great to hear. So there is an explanation for 9 weeks of waiting. 

 I am hoping that I don't have to wait that long. I used to own WA6 with VDA-2/VAC-1 as my dac. I enjoyed a lot. I sold and wanted to try out the Ref1 + Phoenix combo. While they are great at what they do, I felt like it lost some of the musicality. 

 I am hoping that my new combo brings back or improve my previous experience.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

While thinking of upgrading to WA22, I am spending monies on tweaking my MHDT Havana... The urge isn't strong enough for me to pull the trigger and it is kinda difficult for me to part with the maxxed WA6SE and I do not have a balance setup to go with WA22 too.. I know the day will come and I am looking forward to it.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While thinking of upgrading to WA22, I am spending monies on tweaking my MHDT Havana... The urge isn't strong enough for me to pull the trigger and it is kinda difficult for me to part with the maxxed WA6SE and I do not have a balance setup to go with WA22 too.. I know the day will come and I am looking forward to it._

 

If you don't have a balanced DAC, the WA22 wouldn't be that great option for you in the first place, isn't it?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you don't have a balanced DAC, the WA22 wouldn't be that great option for you in the first place, isn't it?_

 

It was mentioned somewhere that WA6SE performs better for single ended setup and that is what I am relying on and holding me back....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clayton, there's only one known cure for this...drinking
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, seriously...when I have to wait on gear I try to totally immerse myself in music. Seek out new artists, buy new albums, listen until I can't listen anymore. I keep telling myself I'm creating new playlists for when I finally get to listen to my new (fill in the blank). Good luck!_

 

Yes, indydieselnut, drinking is just one part of this waiting-for-my-woo equation (of course in moderation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) the other part is, as you've suggested, listening to music. Hey, does anyone know if I can use a U50 rectifier in place of a 5AR4 in a Woo?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, indydieselnut, drinking is just one part of this waiting-for-my-woo equation (of course in moderation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) the other part is, as you've suggested, listening to music. Hey, does anyone know if I can use a U50 rectifier in place of a 5AR4 in a Woo?_

 

When my Apple earbuds start sounding good, I know I've had enough to drink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you get the tube I sent?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When my Apple earbuds start sounding good, I know I've had enough to drink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you get the tube I sent?_

 

Not yet. The mailman is nowhere to be found. I think he's still on vacation. That's funny, when I've had too much to drink my HD650 sound great, I just can't tell what I'm listening to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *** later that same morning***

 It's here, Glenn. The Tube is here. It is beautiful. Thanks. The RCA 5R4GY looks like it's in mint condition. Nice black plates and a beautiful brown base. THANKS!


----------



## Seamaster

WA22 + HD650 + Maker's Mark = Sleeping pill

 WORKS VERY QUICK


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WA22 + HD650 + Maker's Mark = Sleeping pill

 WORKS VERY QUICK_

 

Thanks for the Rx recipe. I will try that since I already have HD650 and Maker's Mark. NOW ALL I NEED IS THAT WA22!!!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not yet. The mailman is nowhere to be found. I think he's still on vacation. That's funny, when I've had too much to drink my HD650 sound great, I just can't tell what I'm listening to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *** later that same morning***

 It's here, Glenn. The Tube is here. It is beautiful. Thanks. The RCA 5R4GY looks like it's in mint condition. Nice black plates and a beautiful brown base. THANKS!_

 

Clayton, you are more than welcome my friend. I hope you like it


----------



## ultraman9000

Not sure if this has been noted elsewhere, but I just noted that partsconnexion is having some sort of Black Friday sale through midnight this evening (eConneXion November 2009 Newsletter). I am in no way affiliated with the business, but noticed that they have some fair deals on blackgates and such, and have seen a lot of the mod-it-yourself Woo owners mention those... now if only I had any idea about all this, I could invest in some possible upgrades for my soon-to-arrive WA6


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ultraman9000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if this has been noted elsewhere, but I just noted that partsconnexion is having some sort of Black Friday sale through midnight this evening_

 

 Thanks for telling us on Monday bro.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for telling us on Monday bro._

 

I actually found better deals today! Black Friday is over hyped if you ask me


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just got my tracking number. Now have to go buy some music. Just a few more days to wait I hope.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

No tracking on my WES prototype yet, but should hear back soon...


----------



## BIG POPPA

Why is it a prototype?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why is it a prototype?_

 

It was the WES that Woo Audio showed at CanJam before it was up to final production specs, and it's the same one that was shown at RMAF and the NY meet last month but with the final production internals and upgraded tubes (photos all over head-fi), but minus the single ended inputs and phase splitter. I had the unused RCA jacks converted to loop-out.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Wow. Cool stuff.


----------



## tosehee

Really interested in your review of WES.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who else amongst us is still awaiting the delivery of their WA22?_

 

Another one waiting in San Francisco!

 I was quoted 6 to 7 weeks on Oct 19 ...
 So that comes in at Nov 30 to Dec 7 ...
 Which is [Ringo drum roll] ...
 Freakin' right now!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another one waiting in San Francisco!

 I was quoted 6 to 7 weeks on Oct 19 ...
 So that comes in at Nov 30 to Dec 7 ...
 Which is [Ringo drum roll] ...
 Freakin' right now!




_

 

You should just send an email to Jack about the update..


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should just send an email to Jack about the update..._

 

Update?


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Balanced interconnect cable recommendations anyone?

 I'll be sourcing from PS Audio PerfectWave Duo to the WA22, then driving HD800 modified with balanced cables ...


----------



## shellylh

Blue jeans cables work well but if you want something a bit fancier, Drew from Moon Audio makes some really nice interconnects and is a HF sponsor. 

 BTW, nice setup. The PS PW is fine source.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another one waiting in San Francisco!

 I was quoted 6 to 7 weeks on Oct 19 ...
 So that comes in at Nov 30 to Dec 7 ...
 Which is [Ringo drum roll] ...
 Freakin' right now!




_

 

I was quoted 6 weeks on Sept 30.
 But because of reasonable delays explained by Jack I am still without it.
 I'm am patient. Got to be. Must be. I am. I am. Zen zen zen.
 It's Dec 1 and I'm still waiting.
 Let's see--what's on TV tonight?


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Balanced interconnect cable recommendations anyone?

 I'll be sourcing from PS Audio PerfectWave Duo to the WA22, then driving HD800 modified with balanced cables ..._

 

The Blue Jeans Cables and Moon Audio recommendations are good ones. Also consider Signal Cable. I've been using Frank's Silver Resolution in single-ended and balanced and they have been wonderful. As a bonus, they are very reasonably priced. 

 I also have the Blue Jeans cables and love working with Drew at Moon...no bad choices!

 On second thought, just listen to whatever Shellylh says...that beautiful WA5 is incredible!!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Balanced interconnect cable recommendations anyone?

 I'll be sourcing from PS Audio PerfectWave Duo to the WA22, then driving HD800 modified with balanced cables ..._

 

Zu Varial XLR for kick in the pants without being too edgey. ELF Golden Super Helix XLR for smooth and richness, but still very detailed, kick hard bass. Bogdan Goldy for cheap price, little bass shine and laid back compare with Zu and ELF, not too bad for $125

 I don't care for MoonAudio stuff, there are reviews on 6Moons


----------



## IctusBrucks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another one waiting in San Francisco!

 I was quoted 6 to 7 weeks on Oct 19 ...
 So that comes in at Nov 30 to Dec 7 ...
 Which is [Ringo drum roll] ...
 Freakin' right now!




_

 


 I just received my WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Haven't plugged it in yet just had a chance to give it a look over and make sure all the Tube's arrived ok.

 The only problem now is that somebody took the box and wrapped it and put it under the tree... soo it might be a few weeks before I can test it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might need to convince my wife that I should plug it in to let it break in, so christmas can be the first listen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I'll be feeding it from DAC1, using the balanced cables that came with that, not sure what brand they are but I will check.


----------



## pedalhead

That's what I call a Christmas present! Good luck with looking at that package under the tree for the next three weeks


----------



## tosehee

Sneak at night and listen while everyone's sleeping. Then put it back into the gift wrap when done.

 If someone asks why the gift wrap looks already opened, look elsewhere, acting like you don't know anything.


----------



## gt67

placed my order for a WA6 with pdps upgrade and a Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier - 3 week build time + delivery time to the UK - really looking forward to it


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gt67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_placed my order for a WA6 with pdps upgrade and a Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier - 3 week build time + delivery time to the UK - really looking forward to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congrats on your Woo purchase. I'm sure you'll love it


----------



## nigeljames

Still waiting for my W6se. 
 Dispatched on 19th November to UK. 
 No tracking info on USPS or Parcelforce so can only assume its stuck at customs


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nigeljames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still waiting for my W6se. 
 Dispatched on 19th November to UK. 
 No tracking info on USPS or Parcelforce so can only assume its stuck at customs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Be patient, you'll never regret for the long waiting, it worth. BTW, Jack should have let you know the tracking number when he dispatched your amp, why don't you send him an email and ask for what's going on?


----------



## nigeljames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be patient, you'll never regret for the long waiting, it worth. BTW, Jack should have let you know the tracking number when he dispatched your amp, why don't you send him an email and ask for what's going on?_

 

Yes Jack gave me a tracking number and has confirmed that USPS did collect amp on the 19th but absolutely no updates on USPS website as to whether it has even left the US, although I assume it has by now.
 Using the same tracking number brings up no info on Parcelforce site either but they may change the number anyway. 
 The fact that I can't track it is what's anoying at the moment and means I can't even guess when I will recieve it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or who to blame if I do not!


----------



## dannie01

I'm not sure how the Parcelforce works in UK, but my experience is, I got the tracking number from Jack when he dispatched my WA6SE, no up-date on the USPS website until I have the notice from HK post office I have a HEAVY parcel to collect, it took about 4-5 days only (I can't remember the exact time has been taken).


----------



## IctusBrucks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I call a Christmas present! Good luck with looking at that package under the tree for the next three weeks _

 

Haha well here's the full scoop on that: I actually placed the order myself way back in August. Back then my wife didn't really know what it cost... I wasn't really planning on bringing it up either. It was just going to show up in my office one day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fast forward a few months of delays.....

 My wife decided she needed a minivan to be able to fit the baby and the dog and groceries etc etc, so we got her an Odyssey as her 'early christmas gift'.

 She was feeling pretty guilty about spending that much, so I decided it would be a perfect time to tell her about the WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 She was a little miffed I didn't tell her earlier but the whole Van thing kinda diffused the bomb. We came to the agreement that for not being upfront about the cost I'll need to wait until Christmas to use it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what I get for being sneaky I suppose. she thinks so little of hifi audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 next need to put my WA3+ up FS


----------



## IctusBrucks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sneak at night and listen while everyone's sleeping. Then put it back into the gift wrap when done.

 If someone asks why the gift wrap looks already opened, look elsewhere, acting like you don't know anything._

 

With my wife's lazy gift-wrapping job that should actually be fairly easy to pull off


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IctusBrucks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my wife's lazy gift-wrapping job that should actually be fairly easy to pull off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There u go~!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Good news everyone! I e-mailed Jack last night about the status of my amp (low hum in the right channel) and this was his response:

 We worked on your amp and the hum reduced roughly 25%. It is an acceptable level on high sensitive headphones as it does not interfere even in low volume listening. I will see what else I can do to further lower the noise. If you think that will work for you, I can ship it back to you.

 I told him I'd rather have him keep it a little bit longer if they can reduce the noise further. I'm pretty excited now!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I thinks it's great that you fessed up about the WA22. In my house, when I went on disability and could no longer work as a pediatrician, I sold off a large amount of my firearms collection to fund my headphone hobby; so as long as something sells to make room for something new I'm okay.


----------



## tosehee

I hope this is what he does for all future WA22 works. Or I will have to send it back for a same treatment.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news everyone! I e-mailed Jack last night about the status of my amp (low hum in the right channel) and this was his response:

 We worked on your amp and the hum reduced roughly 25%. It is an acceptable level on high sensitive headphones as it does not interfere even in low volume listening. I will see what else I can do to further lower the noise. If you think that will work for you, I can ship it back to you.

 I told him I'd rather have him keep it a little bit longer if they can reduce the noise further. I'm pretty excited now!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

anyone have any good dac synergy with the wa6 se?

 -beautiful woo amps made in the usa


----------



## DarKu

A good tube amp goes very well with a good tube DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Havana + WA6 SE is pure joy to listen, i wish i had more free time to listen more tunes


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A good tube amp goes very well with a good tube DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Havana + WA6 SE is pure joy to listen, i wish i had more free time to listen more tunes_

 

I'd buy the DAC that has both XLR and SE for future upgrade. As we all know, you can't avoid the upgraditis, and if you ever want to venture into balanced setup, you only need to buy the amp instead of selling both, and etc.

 But that's just me. If you are happy with your current setup and swear that you never upgrade to balanced, then SE DAC is all you ever need.


----------



## TheAudioDude

This is my first setup (well, second, if you count Shure E2Cs plugged directly into a PC
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I decided to go balanced as soon as I bought my headphones. That drove me to buy a balanced DAC, and finally a balanced amp. It was a heck of a lot of money but I know it'll be worth it once I finally get my WA22 back and I re-terminate my D7000s.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, nice setup. The PS PW is a fine source._

 

So is yours! I listened to the WA5 and WA22 (and RSA B52) at RMAF. Seriously considered the WA5, but already had my head focused on putting together a balanced setup. I was tempted to abandon my plan and stay single ended, but my curiosity for balanced won out and I ordered the WA22.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is yours! I listened to the WA5 and WA22 (and RSA B52) at RMAF. Seriously considered the WA5, but already had my head focused on putting together a balanced setup. I was tempted to abandon my plan and stay single ended, but my curiosity for balanced won out._

 

Why not WA22. I am having so much fun with WA22 right now. The thing with WA22, you can tweak them to sound so much better than stock.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just picked up my 3+ from work. My wife noticed they called the house but left no message. Anyway, listening to it now with the Avett brothers.Cool CD. Just letting it open up a bit before a few impressions.


----------



## Seamaster

Woo Amp will improve after 100 hours. Just keep going BIG POPPA


----------



## BIG POPPA

I wish it was a 100 hours. I have the blackgates. Understood that from the beginning. Tubes are starting to open up a little. With my work schedule this next week I can Listen to music before and after work so I will be putting some hours and hours on it for a while


----------



## Seamaster

What I did was set up amp running before I went to sleep, and turn it off next morning. I put my headphone in a very thick sleeping bag while the amp was on.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clayton, there's only one known cure for this...drinking
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, seriously...when I have to wait on gear I try to totally immerse myself in music. Seek out new artists, buy new albums, listen until I can't listen anymore. I keep telling myself I'm creating new playlists for when I finally get to listen to my new (fill in the blank). Good luck!_

 

Well I can stop drinking for now. Just got my tracking number for the WA22. That's 9 weeks to the day. Not bad considering the RMAF and Thanksgiving, etc. Now I have to go buy some music too. I hope it arrives by Monday--wishful thinking, yes? Okay, Tuesday then.


----------



## IceClass

How the heck does one tell what upgraded parts if any are in a used Woo2?
 I opened mine up but I'm buggered if I know what I'm looking for.


----------



## h.rav

^ Easy, just look at the caps.
 There are four 220uf/200v Black Gate power filtering caps on the left and right side and four 220uf/100v Black Gate coupling caps on the center.


----------



## IceClass

I guess mine must be a basic model then:






 I'm assuming that adding a preamp section to the Woo2 is a question of added circuitry and prolly too much bother and expense to be worthwhile.
 A line out should be fairly easy though, right?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I can stop drinking for now. Just got my tracking number for the WA22. That's 9 weeks to the day. Not bad considering the RMAF and Thanksgiving, etc. Now I have to go buy some music too. I hope it arrives by Monday--wishful thinking, yes? Okay, Tuesday then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

sshh.

 What the hell.. I've been hoping 5-6 weeks like he suggested. But with Christmas and New Year, I might as well give up on that hope.


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess mine must be a basic model then:




_

 

That must be the older WA2. There are two Black Gate 470uf/100v for coupling.
 And it looks like there is no pre-amp output.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not WA22. I am having so much fun with WA22 right now. The thing with WA22, you can tweak them to sound so much better than stock._

 

Yes ... I ordered the WA22 for my balanced setup back in October. Still waiting to hear from Jack on an actual shipping date.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I can stop drinking for now. Just got my tracking number for the WA22. That's 9 weeks to the day._

 

That's great to hear Clayton ... since I'm not far behind you with my order date. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Guess I'll start my drinking now!


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That must be the older WA2. There are two Black Gate 470uf/100v for coupling.
 And it looks like there is no pre-amp output._

 

Yes, this is a first generation Woo2. There is no preamp or line out.
 The Black Gates that I have are standard issue for the base model, right?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My WES was picked up Tuesday and left New York yesterday, on it's way to Colorado. Good thing I've already heard it or the anticipation would be killing me.


----------



## Seamaster

I am happy for all you guys.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sshh.

 What the hell.. I've been hoping 5-6 weeks like he suggested. But with Christmas and New Year, I might as well give up on that hope._

 

tosehee, there was a delay in the completion of my WA22 because of a defect in the chassis. I bet that's been cleared up so perhaps your order is still on the 5- to 6-week build timeline as estimated by Jack. Of course you could email him again and ask for another estimate.


----------



## RayfromTX

I have 243 hours on my WA6SE maxxed. I'm sitting there listening to some Floyd and my walks in and hands me a box full of Sophia Princess. I rolled that baby in and fired it up. What a pretty glow. 

 The result right off the bat was simply a complete tightening up of the bass. I didn't recognize the bloat albeit slight, until it was gone. Wow.

 This is brand new and the black gates may have a while to go before they are at their best but if it didn't get any better than this I'd be just fine.

 Thanks for the guidance y'all.

 Ray


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

A great investment which you will never regret of. Mine has hit approx 800+ hours and it sounds more than awesome. Tweak the DAC as we speak, which is now bringing the listening experience to another dimension/.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 243 hours on my WA6SE maxxed. I'm sitting there listening to some Floyd and my walks in and hands me a box full of Sophia Princess. I rolled that baby in and fired it up. What a pretty glow. 

 The result right off the bat was simply a complete tightening up of the bass. I didn't recognize the bloat albeit slight, until it was gone. Wow.

 This is brand new and the black gates may have a while to go before they are at their best but if it didn't get any better than this I'd be just fine.

 Thanks for the guidance y'all.

 Ray_


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RayfromTX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 243 hours on my WA6SE maxxed. I'm sitting there listening to some Floyd and my walks in and hands me a box full of Sophia Princess. I rolled that baby in and fired it up. What a pretty glow. 

 The result right off the bat was simply a complete tightening up of the bass. I didn't recognize the bloat albeit slight, until it was gone. Wow.

 This is brand new and the black gates may have a while to go before they are at their best but if it didn't get any better than this I'd be just fine.

 Thanks for the guidance y'all.

 Ray_

 

Wait until the Sophia has 30-80 hours on it!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tosehee, there was a delay in the completion of my WA22 because of a defect in the chassis. I bet that's been cleared up so perhaps your order is still on the 5- to 6-week build timeline as estimated by Jack. Of course you could email him again and ask for another estimate._

 

Yah. I was just little worried because I get a local get-together on January that I'd like to bring WA22 to show. In any rate, I am not going to bother him with the build/estimate. Once it gets to 4-5 weeks, I will send an email to get more up-to-date info. Until then, it's fine. I have a lot of killing to do with tube catch ups and what not.


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, this is a first generation Woo2. There is no preamp or line out.
 The Black Gates that I have are standard issue for the base model, right?_

 

There is no Black Gate in the base model.
 You might want to upgrade it to the current build.


----------



## RayfromTX

Listening to the drums in Santana's Migra. Holy big full realism Batman. This is good stuff.


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no Black Gate in the base model.
 You might want to upgrade it to the current build. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It'd probably be cheaper in the long run to just buy a new amp spec'd the way I wanted it. Once I add all the shipping to Ice Station Zebra it would start getting silly methinks.
 I'm very impressed with this one as is and am quite happy. I can only imagine what the new builds sound like.
 It would appear that the Woo2 has been through quite a few revisions.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great to hear Clayton ... since I'm not far behind you with my order date. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I'll start my drinking now!_

 

Hear, hear! It's a cause for celebration on both our ends.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hear, hear! It's a cause for celebration on both our ends.



_

 

Ummmmm.... maybe I shouldn't say anything


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great to hear Clayton ... since I'm not far behind you with my order date. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Guess I'll start my drinking now!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hear, hear! It's a cause for celebration on both our ends.



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ummmmm.... maybe I shouldn't say anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 Glenn, get your mind out of the gutter ! ! !
 Now as I was saying: Hear, hear! It's a cause for celebration for the both of us.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I am extremely impressed by Woo's customer service. Jack wrote to me today saying that the noise in my amp is very low, and they are including a 5GZ4 (I did a Google search but couldn't find it...perhaps it's the 5AR4?) instead of the 5U4G because it is a quieter tube. My amp will be shipped out on Monday! I'm as excited as if I were getting it for the first time!


----------



## K_19

I'll be a new owner of the WA6 tomorrow, should everything go through smoothly with the local sale. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm hoping these will be my final solution for the HD650's (not as much for my K701 as I'm hearing mixed reviews about the synergy between the two). Btw, is the Pseudo Dual Power Supply upgrade THAT much of a must for the WA6? I'm of course going to try the default setup tomorrow and see how much I like it, but in terms of percentage how much does the PDPS improve the SQ?

 Either way, I'm seriously done with amps after this as I really don't see myself spending over this range. Hope WA6 is one of the best around for anything below $500.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am extremely impressed by Woo's customer service. Jack wrote to me today saying that the noise in my amp is very low, and they are including a 5GZ4 (I did a Google search but couldn't find it...perhaps it's the 5AR4?) instead of the 5U4G because it is a quieter tube. My amp will be shipped out on Monday! I'm as excited as if I were getting it for the first time!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

F A N T A S T I C !


----------



## Sorry About Your Wallet

Just ordered my WA6 Maxed. I hope this is worth it.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sorry About Your Wallet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered my WA6 Maxed. I hope this is worth it._

 

I would hope so too after reading your ID.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My Woo WES arrived today - I got the three boxes unpacked and partially assembled, but I need to adjust the shelf height on my Salamander rack. I only wish I had the 36" rack instead of the 28" one. 

 Then I have to find the nice power cable I got from Blutarsky, as I set it aside somewhere safe to use with this, and now can't find it.


----------



## Seamaster

I am happy for you Larry. Rock on!


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA22 was shipped on Friday and it arrived this Monday morning. My neighbor signed for it and I had to wait all day before I was able to rush home to open THE BOX! Click on this link for interior photos! --->MobileMe Gallery<--- I'm in heaven. Well almost. I just hope I don't stay up until 3 AM listening to it. I have to work tomorrow!


----------



## BIG POPPA

Have fun Larry, I am with mine. was worth the wait!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA22 was shipped on Friday and it arrived this Monday morning. My neighbor signed for it and I had to wait all day before I was able to rush home to open THE BOX! Click on this link for interior photos! --->MobileMe Gallery<--- I'm in heaven. Well almost. I just hope I don't stay up until 3 AM listening to it. I have to work tomorrow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am happy for you. Please tell us what do you think. Thanks for the pictures.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I came across a SPL Phonitor and I would whether that will outperform a Maxxed WA6SE? Anyone have both to A/B?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I came across a SPL Phonitor and I would whether that will outperform a Maxxed WA6SE? Anyone have both to A/B?_

 

Me too, and if anyone has compare the 4 boards balanced Beta 22 also, many thanks in advance.


----------



## tosehee

I've owned Phoenix in the past. It may not be up to par with B22, but should be similar in sound. I will give my impression once I get my hands on my WA22.


----------



## Clayton SF

Seamaster, how long should I break in the components-other-than tubes--cap, etc. before I start to roll tubes? Also, my WA22 came with the smallest octal rectifier I've seen. The 5Z4G diameter is less than the 6SN7!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA22 was shipped on Friday and it arrived this Monday morning. My neighbor signed for it and I had to wait all day before I was able to rush home to open THE BOX! Click on this link for interior photos! --->MobileMe Gallery<--- I'm in heaven. Well almost. I just hope I don't stay up until 3 AM listening to it. I have to work tomorrow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Wonder why you didn't get in black to match with your existing amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am extremely impressed by Woo's customer service. Jack wrote to me today saying that the noise in my amp is very low, and they are including a 5GZ4 (I did a Google search but couldn't find it...perhaps it's the 5AR4?) instead of the 5U4G because it is a quieter tube. My amp will be shipped out on Monday! I'm as excited as if I were getting it for the first time!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey TheAudioDude, Jack told me last Wednesday (Dec. 2) that he was waiting for a shipment of rectifiers before he could send out my WA22. I bet it was because he was replacing the rectifier with the 5Z4G. So you've probably saved me a ship-back to Jack because he found one source of your amp hum--the rectifier.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've owned Phoenix in the past. It may not be up to par with B22, but should be similar in sound. I will give my impression once I get my hands on my WA22._

 

Thanks tosehee, just wondering how the WA6SE Maxxed compare with Beta 22 and WA 22. Both amps are on top of my wish list to balanced.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wonder why you didn't get in black to match with your existing amp._

 

You know, I've been slowly shifting to silver. It's going to take a while but I've gone silver now. I have to just ignore all that black for now. It might take 15 years but I've got to start with something hence the WA22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also the silver version of the PrimaLuna would be just the fascia--the chassis is still black.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've owned Phoenix in the past. It may not be up to par with B22, but should be similar in sound. I will give my impression once I get my hands on my WA22._

 

You better have some good impressions for us bro.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seamaster, how long should I break in the components-other-than tubes--cap, etc. before I start to roll tubes? Also, my WA22 came with the smallest octal rectifier I've seen. The 5Z4G diameter is less than the 6SN7!




_

 

I would suguest 100 hours, after 100 hours the difference is so small, I could rather use my time to enjoy music. I know nothing about 5Z4G, can't really help here. 

 So far, I settle on GZ34 and EML depend on music. Of course it is all about how do you match them to other tubes.


----------



## El_Doug

Finally cracked her open:


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally cracked her open: 









_

 

Thanks for the picture. I wordering how WA22 is going to sound with upgrade to V-cap all that stuffs.


----------



## nigeljames

My W6SE should be here tomorrow. Took 15 days to get into the UK!
 Paid customs charges this morning
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but expected.
 Delivery booked for tomorrow


----------



## Seamaster

When I sold my RS-1, the buyer requested to put down value under $100 USD. I took the risk and helped him. It is all about luck.


----------



## nigeljames

The customs/vat charge was not as much as I expected and as I had budgeted for the full, expected, amount I was pretty chuffed


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the picture. I wordering how WA22 is going to sound with upgrade to V-cap all that stuffs._

 

There's an upgrade to the WA22? I didn't know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe it's good that I didn't know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So this morning it was 34 degrees in San Francisco. Turned on all of the heaters and blew a fuse. Lights out. WA22 out. Coffee pot out! Eeek! I hope that didn't stress those tubes. Certainly stressed me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally cracked her open: 









_

 

OMG. BLACK GOLD! Sticks of sound dynamite! WOW WOW WOW. That is soooo cool. Probably sounds equally as impressive. At the top, and slightly to the right of center in the photo, is that where those mini tubes go if you use them? What were they for now? Looks like mini after burners.


----------



## winzzz

what amp is that ?


----------



## h.rav

^ Woo WES


----------



## tosehee

WES?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WES?_

 

NO! Should be Woo WES Maxxed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Those V-Caps look terrible but sound wonderful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great pic El_Doug, thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nigeljames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My W6SE should be here tomorrow. Took 15 days to get into the UK!
 Paid customs charges this morning
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but expected.
 Delivery booked for tomorrow
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations! I wonder how many Woos have made it across the Atlantic. It would be interesting to see the demographics of Jack's global sales.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's an upgrade to the WA22? I didn't know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe it's good that I didn't know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So this morning it was 34 degrees in San Francisco. Turned on all of the heaters and blew a fuse. Lights out. WA22 out. Coffee pot out! Eeek! I hope that didn't stress those tubes. Certainly stressed me._

 

No, there is no upgrade for WA22 yet. Here is 16 degree in Seattle this morning. So much for global warming! I showed up at work opened the gate for everybody, and called "sick", went back to sleep.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG. BLACK GOLD! Sticks of sound dynamite! WOW WOW WOW. That is soooo cool. Probably sounds equally as impressive. At the top, and slightly to the right of center in the photo, is that where those mini tubes go if you use them? What were they for now? Looks like mini after burners. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yup, those are where the 2 12AU7's go. they stick out of the back, but are protected by some slick aluminum covers. I have yet to install them, however, since I do not use a single-ended source.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey TheAudioDude, Jack told me last Wednesday (Dec. 2) that he was waiting for a shipment of rectifiers before he could send out my WA22. I bet it was because he was replacing the rectifier with the 5Z4G. So you've probably saved me a ship-back to Jack because he found one source of your amp hum--the rectifier._

 

Ahh, nice! I e-mailed Jack on Saturday and asked what he did to reduce the noise on my amp. He said that he added an extra magnetic shield to the power supply; apparently the power supply can be quite noisy in the WA22. I'll crack open my WA22 once I get it and see what it looks like now. It should be here either tomorrow or Thursday
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have any hum on your WA22? How are you enjoying it??

 As a side note... has anyone here been using their Woo amps for videogames/movies? I do quite a bit of gaming and movie watching and I only got a chance to watch a couple of movies/play a few games with my WA22. It was great but I wanted to hear other people's opinions.


----------



## Seamaster

There was litte hum when I frist got my WA22, but it went away after 50 hours. WA22 is overkill for video game and movies. But we all like overkills in the audio world, do we?


----------



## ygm

Let me get this straight - the hum in the in wa22 is a well known and EXPECTED "feature"?!?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me get this straight - the hum in the in wa22 is a well known and EXPECTED "feature"?!?_

 

I did not say that. If there is still hum after 100 hours. Well, you got problem.


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me get this straight - the hum in the in wa22 is a well known and EXPECTED "feature"?!?_

 

Most tube amps have audible hum, it is difficult to remove all of the hum from a tube amp but it's not impossible. For example, DNA Sonett is dead quiet, even with IEM.


----------



## IctusBrucks

I've noticed on the WA22 that the 5Z4G is much quieter than the Sophia 274B. The 5Z4G is almost silent (have to really strain to notice) while the 274B I hear a very 'soft' white noise. it's not irritating at all and is not audible during music. Some kind of vibrations on the mesh plate?

 I haven't yet done enough listening to comment on the acoustical differences besides the background noise level.


----------



## IctusBrucks

Still couldn't resist posting some pics of the fired up Sophia on the WA22


----------



## TheAudioDude

^ That's so beautiful man. Kind of makes me wish I went with black instead of silver. Maybe my next Woo amp will be black


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I love black but it is a dust magnet...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love black but it is a dust magnet..._

 

Clean, that what is wife for.


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clean, that what is wife for._

 

You're a brave man. Or single.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're a brave man. Or single. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Got a wife and daughter

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...Q/P1010162.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...Q/P1010123.jpg


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA22 was shipped on Friday and it arrived this Monday morning._

 

Congrats! San Francisco gets a WA22. Mine should ship sometime next week, which will bring a 2nd one to SF!


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a wife and daughter

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...Q/P1010162.jpg

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...Q/P1010123.jpg_

 

Ah yes I remember that pic of you and your lady from another thread. You did well! Cute kiddie too. I'll refrain from posting pics of my little girls lest everyone unsubscribe from this thread in their masses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats! San Francisco gets a WA22. Mine should ship sometime next week, which will bring a 2nd one to SF!_

 

Great news. I'd be really interested in your impressions. As Seamaster has demonstrated, tube rolling on this amp really seems to make a difference, so worth dipping your toe if you're interested once the amp is run in a bit.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd be really interested in your impressions. As Seamaster has demonstrated, tube rolling on this amp really seems to make a difference, so worth dipping your toe if you're interested once the amp is run in a bit._

 

I'd love to have that discussion. Should I roll that over to the Woo WA22 discussion?


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to have that discussion. Should I roll that over to the Woo WA22 discussion?_

 

There are a couple of threads on the go for tube rolling the WA22, in addition to the main WA22 thread. Confusing, yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I wonder if we should get them merged actually...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/eml...s-wa22-456533/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/wa2...-tubes-451678/


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clean, that what is wife for._

 

I feel sorry for your wife. How chauvinistic... 


 ...now the French Maid...*that* I can understand


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats! San Francisco gets a WA22. Mine should ship sometime next week, which will bring a 2nd one to SF!_

 

Yes! Two known WA22s in SF. One in Pacific Heights and one on Nob Hill. Which headphones are you primarily going to use with your new WA22? I'm using using the HD650. 100 hours are needed for break-in so we shall see or hear, as the case may be, how the sound stage evolves. Now the real challenge is for me to describe the subtleties of these changes on paper which, judging from other members' adept style at writing sonic prose, puts me on the sub-par level. Here's a question: If I introduce a new set of tubes after the first 100 hours of break-in time have passed, do I have to wait another slew of hours for the second set of new tubes to break-in before I start to note the changes? In other words: Do I have to give the second set of tubes a break-in period as well before I start to fairly ascertain the sound qualities of the new set of tubes?


----------



## Seamaster

Tubes don't take as long as amp and cable to break-in, NOS about 50 hours is good. even 20 hours will help.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel sorry for your wife. How chauvinistic... 


 ...now the French Maid...*that* I can understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Ha Ha I know her for 13+ years. Beside husband and wife, we are best friends.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tubes don't take as long as amp and cable to break-in, NOS about 50 hours is good. even 20 hours will help._

 

Thanks. That's good to know. I have these JAN GE 6SN7GT/CV1988 manufactured in Canada that I'd like to try out and I didn't want to wait 200 hours.


----------



## Seamaster

GE? When the last time GE make good tubes beside their 6550. Ken Rad VT-231 is pretty good. There is no difference between clear and smoke glass.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GE? When the last time GE make good tubes beside their 6550. Ken Rad VT-231 is pretty good. There is no difference between clear and smoke glass._

 

So you don't like them? Well I am really new at this. I got those JAN GE 6SN7GT/CV1988 at GE 6SN7GT. Kevin seemed pretty impressed by them. Live and learn--got to start somewhere.


----------



## Seamaster

$100 a pice! My god, KR VT-231 is about $60~80 a pair, they are one of the better tubes for 6SN7 type. That is a rip off on that GE. Some time I lean my lesson the hard way too. CV1988 is european code, it does not apply to US made tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$100 a pice! My god, KR VT-231 is about $60~80 a pair, they are one of the better tubes for 6SN7 type. That is a rip off on that GE. Some time I lean my lesson the hard way too. CV1988 is european code, it does not apply to US made tube._

 

I got them before I started reading your reviews. I went with the CV1988 by someone else's review. Like you said--lesson learned. But I haven't listened to them yet so I shall see. I can only hope I like them. I shall look for KR VT-231 on eBay. Let's see if I'm lucky enough to find them $60~80 a pair.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got them before I started reading your reviews. I went with the CV1988 by someone else's review. Like you said--lesson learned. But I haven't listened to them yet so I shall see. I can only hope I like them. I shall look for KR VT-231 on eBay. Let's see if I'm lucky enough to find them $60~80 a pair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Are you waiting for 6F8G adapters right? Once listened 6F8G, you could just skip the VT-231s


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you waiting for 6F8G adapters right? Once listened 6F8G, you could just skip the VT-231s_

 

My adapters are here, I am waiting for the 100 hours to pass before I put the VT-99 into the WA22. Wow, so you think they're better than the VT-231s. Great. At least I've got something that you feel is worth listening to.


----------



## Seamaster

You will find out $60 a pair of 6F8G will do whole a lot better job than $200 GE you got, and $320 Shuguang CV181


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will find out $60 a pair of 6F8G will do whole a lot better job than $200 GE you got, and $320 Shuguang CV181_

 

How can the 6SN7 tube, which the WA22 is specifically designed to use, be upstaged in sound performance by the 6F8G tube, which is entirely unusable in the WA22's 6SN7 socket unless it is paired with an appropriate adapter AND Grid Cap? And how in the world did you ever conceive of that thought?

 Anyway, obviously it's a match that is worth exploring.


----------



## immtbiker

I have 4 NOS 1940's VT-231's 6sn7's if you are interested, 
 had them for my Maestro, and don't need them anymore.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 4 NOS 1940's VT-231's 6sn7's if you are interested, 
 had them for my Maestro, and don't need them anymore._

 

What brand?

 Can you send me a PM with your sale price and some detail?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can the 6SN7 tube, which the WA22 is specifically designed to use, be upstaged in sound performance by the 6F8G tube, which is entirely unusable in the WA22's 6SN7 socket unless it is paired with an appropriate adapter AND Grid Cap? And how in the world did you ever conceive of that thought?

 Anyway, obviously it's a match that is worth exploring. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

6F8G is part of 6SN7 familiy
The 6SN7 - the best general-purpose triode?

 you have to buy or make adapters, but aside from the pin-out and the grid cap, the 6F8G is identical in operation to the 6SN7.

 Further reading:
Tubes Asylum: RE: 6F8G/ VT99 Observations by posbwp55@msn.com


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which headphones are you primarily going to use with your new WA22?_

 

I only have one pair. HD800 hardwired with balanced SAA Voice cables... I know, I know... I went over the top crazy!!!


----------



## Seamaster

We will have a mini meet in Seattle this weekend. Then I will have chance to see how HD800 is going to pair up my WA22


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We will have a mini meet in Seattle this weekend. Then I will have chance to see how HD800 is going to pair up my WA22_

 

Cool.

 I am interested in your thoughts about the tube matching with HD800..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6F8G is part of 6SN7 familiy The 6SN7 - the best general-purpose triode? you have to buy or make adapters, but aside from the pin-out and the grid cap, the 6F8G is identical in operation to the 6SN7.
 Further reading: Tubes Asylum: RE: 6F8G/VT99 Observations by posbwp55@msn.com_

 

Thank you so much for the this. I wonder what other GOD tubes are out there. Inevitably the 6F8G/VT99 will become just as rare and expensive as the 6SN7s. Seamaster, we better start stocking up on these.


----------



## indydieselnut

The WA6 w/PDPS arrived yesterday and I got it fired up with the EML 5U4G. Initial impressions are very favorable...powerful, detailed, harmonically accurate, and very musical. I was going to just use my iPod with my ALO LOD cable but decided to go ahead and put together a real system. I already had all the pieces at home and the home system is still intact. I spent a very rewarding hour over lunch listening in the dark. The mirror makes a nice backdrop for the EML in the dark!


----------



## K_19

Would you guys say spending $150 on a new Sophia Princess 274b for STOCK WA6 will bring about worthy change in sound? Really debating here whether this price is worth it or not, but most of the reviews on Sophia so far have been on upgraded WA6 or higher Woo Models... can anyone with stock and Sophia chime and let me know how much of a difference it made? I'm about to cave in here and just get it...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA6 w/PDPS arrived yesterday and I got it fired up with the EML 5U4G. Initial impressions are very favorable...powerful, detailed, harmonically accurate, and very musical. I was going to just use my iPod with my ALO LOD cable but decided to go ahead and put together a real system. I already had all the pieces at home and the home system is still intact. I spent a very rewarding hour over lunch listening in the dark. The mirror makes a nice backdrop for the EML in the dark!




_

 

Nice looking system. Grats.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice looking system. Grats._

 

Congratulations. Great looking system. And LOL. My first thought when I saw your WA6 w/PDPS was that I had never seen a WA6 SE with 2 EML 5U4Gs before! But that was only its reflection in the mirror!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations. Great looking system. And LOL. My first thought when I saw your WA6 w/PDPS was that I had never seen a WA6 SE with 2 EML 5U4Gs before! But that was only its reflection in the mirror! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got confused there too.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you guys say spending $150 on a new Sophia Princess 274b for STOCK WA6 will bring about worthy change in sound? Really debating here whether this price is worth it or not, but most of the reviews on Sophia so far have been on upgraded WA6 or higher Woo Models... can anyone with stock and Sophia chime and let me know how much of a difference it made? I'm about to cave in here and just get it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

If you don't want to spend $150 Sophia, and looking for improvment over stock tube. Use UK made 5Z3 with adapter, or UK made GZ32. Those two are cheap, and sound very good at same time.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you so much for the this. I wonder what other GOD tubes are out there. Inevitably the 6F8G/VT99 will become just as rare and expensive as the 6SN7s. Seamaster, we better start stocking up on these. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got 3 matched pair of 6F8G, and 4 pair of UK made Mazda already. I am set.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you don't want to spend $150 Sophia, and looking for improvment over stock tube. Use UK made 5Z3 with adapter, or UK made GZ32. Those two are cheap, and sound very good at same time._

 

I'll look those up as well, thanks. Coming from rolling 12AU7's (typically cheaper tube) on my old EF1, something like $150 for a Sophia Princess seem pretty hefty.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations. Great looking system. And LOL. My first thought when I saw your WA6 w/PDPS was that I had never seen a WA6 SE with 2 EML 5U4Gs before! But that was only its reflection in the mirror! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks guys! The mirror makes for "double the pleasure, double the fun" when the EML is lit and the room is dark
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry for the confusion...


----------



## pedalhead

That EML looks like a skyscraper in there! Excellent . 

 So, Seamaster. now we know who bought up all the Mazdas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Only got 1 set myself, but have ordered a 2nd set of the Raytheon 6F8Gs, and tempted by more but will see how the Mazdas sound first (when the adapters get here).


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got 3 matched pair of 6F8G, and 4 pair of UK made Mazda already. I am set.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Sheesh. No wonder I can't find any of those...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That EML looks like a skyscraper in there! Excellent . 

 So, Seamaster. now we know who bought up all the Mazdas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Only got 1 set myself, but have ordered a 2nd set of the Raytheon 6F8Gs, and tempted by more but will see how the Mazdas sound first (when the adapters get here)._

 

I just found Upscale Audio - Rare Tubes, Highest Fidelity have some more in stock. Tell us what do you think with Mazda 6FQ7 when you get the adapters. When I 1st hear the mazda, my eyes almost popped out. It is your turn now.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I just found Upscale Audio - Rare Tubes, Highest Fidelity have some more in stock. Tell us what do you think with Mazda 6FQ7 when you get the adapters. When I 1st hear the mazda, my eyes almost popped out. It is your turn now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice. Just placed an order for 1 pair.


----------



## pedalhead

Cheers for the link. If I like the other Mazdas I'll be all over those


----------



## TheAudioDude

I received my repaired WA22 today (with the new rectifier tube) and it is definitely quieter. I can barely hear anything when no music is playing, but when music plays... oh man is it oh so sweet. Remember how I said the music flows out of this amp? Well, it has never flowed so well
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The new rectifier, a 5Z4G, (compared from what I remember of the 5U4G) is definitely a bit smoother. The highs seem tamed a bit with my D7000s and the midrange has improved. I'll have to re-read the tube rolling threads and get started with that. This weekend I'll be balancing my D7000s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In the week and a half or so of waiting for my WA22 to return, I had listening sessions with my old Kenwood solid-state speaker amplifier (what I've been using before I got the WA22), and the WA22 is better in every conceivable way. I can't believe how 'un-forced' the music is. I don't know how to explain it. It's like the music is gravitating towards my headphones and time is slowing down to let it pass through un-tainted. Yeah, I bet I sound crazy, but I don't care because I'm in audio bliss.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 BTW, Jack told me that he's been getting quite a few e-mails about hum/noise and told me to pass along the information he gave me. I've said it in this thread but I'll post it here anyways. I was noticing a hum in the right channel when no music was playing and tried everything to figure out what it was. I had sent it back to Jack and he reduced it by adding an extra magnetic shield to the power supply.


----------



## tosehee

Grats. I still got a long way before mine arrives.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grats. I still got a long way before mine arrives. _

 

Don't worry, it's well worth the wait.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my repaired WA22 today (with the new rectifier tube) and it is definitely quieter. I can barely hear anything when no music is playing, but when music plays... oh man is it oh so sweet. Remember how I said the music flows out of this amp? Well, it has never flowed so well
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The new rectifier, a 5Z4G, (compared from what I remember of the 5U4G) is definitely a bit smoother. The highs seem tamed a bit with my D7000s and the midrange has improved. I'll have to re-read the tube rolling threads and get started with that. This weekend I'll be balancing my D7000s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In the week and a half or so of waiting for my WA22 to return, I had listening sessions with my old Kenwood solid-state speaker amplifier (what I've been using before I got the WA22), and the WA22 is better in every conceivable way. I can't believe how 'un-forced' the music is. I don't know how to explain it. It's like the music is gravitating towards my headphones and time is slowing down to let it pass through un-tainted. Yeah, I bet I sound crazy, but I don't care because I'm in audio bliss.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 BTW, Jack told me that he's been getting quite a few e-mails about hum/noise and told me to pass along the information he gave me. I've said it in this thread but I'll post it here anyways. I was noticing a hum in the right channel when no music was playing and tried everything to figure out what it was. I had sent it back to Jack and he reduced it by adding an extra magnetic shield to the power supply._

 

I put my ear ON the transfromers, there is some noise, there is not. I know there is something there but it is so faint, almost can call it none. Put on my headphone, dead silent. I notice everytime I turn on amp cold with EML, the tube makes one "pin" noise. Other 5U4G type makes same noise, but just as not near as loud as EML.


----------



## DC12k

Just got my WA6 with the PDPS upgrade. This thing is awesome. 
 I am, however, getting the same faint hum in the right channel which is a little annoying to hear in between tracks.


 The best part is that I get to rediscover my entire music collection.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC12k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my WA6 with the PDPS upgrade. This thing is awesome. 
 I am, however, getting the same faint hum in the right channel which is a little annoying to hear in between tracks.


 The best part is that I get to rediscover my entire music collection._

 

Grats. There are a lot of tubes you can roll on. It's quite a fun to find the most appealing tube for your taste, starting with Sophia or EML.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC12k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my WA6 with the PDPS upgrade. This thing is awesome. 
 I am, however, getting the same faint hum in the right channel which is a little annoying to hear in between tracks.


 The best part is that I get to rediscover my entire music collection._

 

Congrats on your WA6. I'm surprised you're noticing hum. Mine is dead silent. Did you try swapping the driver/output tubes to see if the hum travels from right to left? Try moving your input cables away from your power cord to see if that makes a difference...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on your WA6. I'm surprised you're noticing hum. Mine is dead silent. Did you try swapping the driver/output tubes to see if the hum travels from right to left? Try moving your input cables away from your power cord to see if that makes a difference..._

 

I used to own WA6, and I also noticed the hum at high volume. It wasn't a big deal when music plays, so I didn't bothered too much about it.

 I used to have Tung Sol 5u4g fat bottle, and nice set of 6DE7 back back then.

 A good memory from WA6 is what I got me to sell all my solid state gears and back to Tube.

 I hope WA22 doesn't disappoint me.. In any rate, my WA22 suppose to ship 2nd week of Jan 10....

 More tube hunting while waiting..


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used to own WA6, and I also noticed the hum at high volume. It wasn't a big deal when music plays, so I didn't bothered too much about it.

 I used to have Tung Sol 5u4g fat bottle, and nice set of 6DE7 back back then.

 A good memory from WA6 is what I got me to sell all my solid state gears and back to Tube.

 I hope WA22 doesn't disappoint me.. In any rate, my WA22 suppose to ship 2nd week of Jan 10....

 More tube hunting while waiting.._

 

With right tubes rolled to your own tast. WA22 is a steal at $1900


----------



## DC12k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on your WA6. I'm surprised you're noticing hum. Mine is dead silent. Did you try swapping the driver/output tubes to see if the hum travels from right to left? Try moving your input cables away from your power cord to see if that makes a difference..._

 


 Yeah I swapped the two tubes but that didn't change it channel to channel. I think the wiring to the room is partially if not mostly to blame (this house is a good 100 years old) as I can hear an increase in the hum with certain electronics plugged in. Turning those off reduces it significantly and the noise only becomes as loud when the volume is over 50%. 

 Moving the input away from the power cord didn't seem to do anything.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC12k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I swapped the two tubes but that didn't change it channel to channel. I think the wiring to the room is partially if not mostly to blame (this house is a good 100 years old) as I can hear an increase in the hum with certain electronics plugged in. Turning those off reduces it significantly and the noise only becomes as loud when the volume is over 50%. 

 Moving the input away from the power cord didn't seem to do anything._

 

As what you stated, those noise seems coming from the grounding, an isolation transformer seems could solve your problem. Also, did you try to leave the ground with a virtual plug see whether if it could help to reduce the noise?


----------



## dannie01

In my case, I've diy'ed a pair of Nordost silver cable with Bullet plugs without shielding, it pick up noise when volume turn up to about 10'o clock. But dead silent when I switch to a pair of Eichmen cable with shielding.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just checked out that Upscale Audio site. They want 175.00 each for Amperex 6dj8's Bugle Boys made in Holland. WOW!!! I picked up a pair for 99 cents plus 4 dollars shipping. I double checked, they are made in Holland. Listening to them right now. Jury still out on them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked out that Upscale Audio site. They want 175.00 each for Amperex 6dj8's Bugle Boys made in Holland. WOW!!! I picked up a pair for 99 cents plus 4 dollars shipping. I double checked, they are made in Holland. Listening to them right now. Jury still out on them._

 

I had read somewhere that not all bugle boys are good. Some versions were terrible. So one needs to know the year that a particular bugle boy tube was manufactured to ensure getting the best ones. Wow 99 cents is a steal! You lucked out in getting those.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked out that Upscale Audio site. They want 175.00 each for Amperex 6dj8's Bugle Boys made in Holland. WOW!!! I picked up a pair for 99 cents plus 4 dollars shipping. I double checked, they are made in Holland. Listening to them right now. Jury still out on them._

 

0.99? You rip the seller the hell off
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Why this kind luck never happen to me!


----------



## nattonrice

99c is indeed very cheap! 
 Do you have a link to the ebay page or equivalent?


----------



## IceClass

I bought a coupe of Tesla 6x4 rectifiers.
 One of them lights right up like a lightbulb for a few seconds when turing the woo2 power on.

 Should I be worried?


----------



## Fred Flintstone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my repaired WA22 today_

 

I'm at 8 weeks and counting for my WA22. I was supposed to hear this week regarding shipping but nothing so far.


----------



## jonnybee123

Although I sold my WA6 last weekend to K_19 (hi Min, hope you're enjoying it), I should be back in the fold early January. Thank you Head-Fi for providing me with the inspiration to make what may be the largest non auto/edu/housing/travel expense of my life. If anyone asks, I'll tell them my shiny new black WA6 SE cost what I paid for the premium parts upgrade...and I'll still be met with some raised eyebrows. 

 Oh boy, am I ever stoked. Can't we just skip the holidays and go right to January


----------



## Yedgy

I can't believe I've actually read through this entire thread! I ordered a WA6 with PDPS and Sophia Princess mesh tube upgrades, along with one of those spiffy matching headphone stands, a week ago. What's the typical lead time for this amp?

 I hope it sounds as good as I expect with the rest of my rig: HD650 w/Zu Mobius cable, V-DAC, and WAV files fed via USB.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Yedgy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't believe I've actually read through this entire thread!_

 

You are the man! I could never down that. 

 WA22 the new kid around the block is going stornger everyday. It is going to stay with me for a long time.


----------



## BIG POPPA

237 is printed on the bottom portion on both tubes on the side. No clue what those mean?


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA22 is barely 50 hours old (in use) and I am loving every moment listening to it age. I have exercised every bit of restraint in my being—though you can imagine how much that is—to try not to roll out the stock tubes for the suggested shweeet tubes. At any rate, here is where the WA22 resides: between an Audio Electronics PH-1 DJH phono preamp and a PrimaLuna DiaLogue 2. Silver between Black (well actually the PrimaLuna is really a dark blue).


----------



## atbglenn

Clayton's Stereo Store,

 Your setup looks GREAT!

 jealousglenn


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clayton's Stereo Store,

 Your setup looks GREAT!

 jealousglenn_

 

Thanks, Glenn with two ens: And of course a great production like the WA22, HD650, and K701 has to have a great supporting cast. I have you to thank for making me that great headphone stand and it sits proudly below the gang of three above. Your headphone stand has a habit of moving around my apartment. Well, a GOOD habit, that is.


----------



## Clayton SF

I've noticed that after the WA22 has been on for a few hours the middle transformer box feels very warm. Is this normal? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't give you a temp reading but it's much warmer than the WA6 transformer box. It's not hot--it would never burn the heel of my palm. Of course it could be picking up some residual heat from the rectifier too because that tube is very close to it.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noticed that after the WA22 has been on for a few hours the middle transformer box feels very warm. Is this normal? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't give you a temp reading but it's much warmer than the WA6 transformer box. It's not hot--it would never burn the heel of my palm. Of course it could be picking up some residual heat from the rectifier too because that tube is very close to it._

 

Yep, this is normal. Mine is warm too. Transformers naturally get hot since all of the power is going through them, and they do not have perfect conductivity... so some power is being dissipated. BTW Clayton, that's an extremely nice setup you have there. Once my setup is as nice as that I'll post some pictures.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just balanced my D7000s and it's definitely an improvement over unbalanced. Clarity has improved; I'm hearing more things in songs. Soundstage has improved slightly and bass seems to be slightly more defined in certain songs. It seems to have taken out a very slight amount of sibilance but perhaps that's just because I don't have to turn the volume up as high anymore. I guess you could say that the spectrum has balanced out a bit
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't say it's a night and day difference (sadly), but it's definitely an improvement.

 Now I'm listening to the amp at ~9-10 o'clock rather than 11.5-1 o'clock. 

 I posted my 'ghetto strain relief' in this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bal...-d5000-452582/
 Try not to make fun of me too much... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another thing too... when I was running the amp unbalanced, there would be a hissing in the left channel if I turned the volume all the way up. Now both channels are quiet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks for the compliment on my setup and thanks for the insight on hot transformers. Isn't it just great to kick back this cold (and wet in SF) weekend and just listen to your Woo? Wow. I am thinking about either balancing my HD650 or picking up a set of closed headphones and having them balanced. Just when I thought that tube rolling was going to be a challenge, now its the headphone balancing act--not to mention the act of balancing my checkbook! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway I am glad that your balanced D7000 has worked out. And you did it yourself--now that's impressive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you listened to other Denons?


----------



## jamato8

Yes, transformers by the very nature of what they are doing get warm to hot. I have a few components that get the transformer HOT but you know they were built that way and after years of use no problems, even the potting wax is in place and it would melt if there was a real problem.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the compliment on my setup and thanks for the insight on hot transformers. Isn't it just great to kick back this cold (and wet in SF) weekend and just listen to your Woo? Wow. I am thinking about either balancing my HD650 or picking up a set of closed headphones and having them balanced. Just when I thought that tube rolling was going to be a challenge, now its the headphone balancing act--not to mention the act of balancing my checkbook! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway I am glad that your balanced D7000 has worked out. And you did it yourself--now that's impressive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you listened to other Denons?_

 

Well it wasn't that hard. I have a lot of experience with soldering so it was a piece of cake. I haven't listened to any other Denons, or any other mid- to high-end headphone. The D7000s are only my third set of headphones, aside from the Shure E2Cs and Koss R80s. Although these are the first headphones I have ever used with an amp and DAC


----------



## Clayton SF

That is so interesting. Just this morning I was reading about potting wax. I had no idea what went into making those things. Get a load of this article on Transformer Potting. It shows you how much hands-on work is involved. I mean the guy in this Cary Audio article looks like he could be a tanner or even a blacksmith.

 I never got a user's manual with my WA22. Did anyone get one? I mean it's pretty self-explanatory and all but it would be great if I could read about the specs, etc. What to do and what not to do, yah know?


----------



## pedalhead

Jack told me he was working on a user manual, but in it's absence he sent me some quick info...

 * Install all tubes before switching on the amp.
 * Be sure to install the correct tube into the right socket
 o The 5V4 is a rectifier and it should go into the 5U4G socket (center).
 o 6SN7 goes to 6SN7 socket in no particular order because the tubes are matched
 o 6AS7GA goes to 6080 socket in no particular order because the tubes are matched
 * Facing front of the amp, the volume control is on the left and the multi-functional switch on the right
 o Multi-functional switch has 4 positions. From left to right, it is OFF, HI, LO, OFF.
 o HI is high impedance output for 60 ohms or above. LO is for low.
 o Switch to OFF position to turn off the amp
 * Before powering up the amp, turn down the volume. Switching on the amp, the LED will blinks for a brief moment (10 seconds) then it becomes solid. This is normal as to pre-heat filaments to protect the tubes being surged. Once the LED becomes solid, the amp is fully functional. However, it may take few minutes to warm up the amp.
 * Balanced (XLR) inputs work best for this model. If you use RCA input, the amp will not work in fully balanced mode.
 * Do not leave the amp on unattended. Turn it off when not in use.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks, pedalhead. I like that blue blinking light and it's good to know that I haven't done anything to that amp that would make it suddenly vaporize.


----------



## pedalhead

Haha! Well I have to say, my Wa22 trips the fuse on my house consumer unit if I power it on and switch impedance setting before the warmup (blinking light) is complete. No big deal once you know about it, but I was a bit worried at first because it happens very time.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, pedalhead. I like that blue blinking light and it's good to know that I haven't done anything to that amp that would make it suddenly vaporize.







_

 

If the whole west coast suddenly disappears we know who to blame...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the whole west coast suddenly disappears we know who to blame...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hope you're not on the west coast! haha East coast here. If I see a big flash, I know who to blame 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (AtomicClayton)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the whole west coast suddenly disappears we know who to blame...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you're not on the west coast! haha East coast here. If I see a big flash, I know who to blame 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (AtomicClayton)_

 

If any of you do see that BIG FLASH and you're unable get ahold of me, would someone please call Jack and ask him if the WA22 is still under warranty. Thank you.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the whole west coast suddenly disappears we know who to blame...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That, and the San Andreas fault.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have exercised every bit of restraint in my being—though you can imagine how much that is—to try not to roll out the stock tubes for the suggested shweeet tubes._

 

That must feel great to have it online! So pardon my ignorance, but what are those suggested shweeet tubes you mention? My shipping date is coming up (probably next week) and I need to decide which upgrades to include for driving my balanced HD800s.


----------



## Clayton SF

I think the new *Russian 5Z4G* rectifier that Jack has included with the WA22 is really cool looking. It's a small, tapered at the top, _tubular_ tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's too early to tell how it will compare with the _shweet_ tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That must feel great to have it online! So pardon my ignorance, but what are those suggested shweeet tubes you mention? My shipping date is coming up (probably next week) and I need to decide which upgrades to include for driving my balanced HD800s._

 

Those _shweeet_ tubes are the ones that *Seamaster* has already reviewed and given his utmost approval. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/wa2...-tubes-451678/


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA22 is barely 50 hours old (in use) and I am loving every moment listening to it age. I have exercised every bit of restraint in my being—though you can imagine how much that is—to try not to roll out the stock tubes for the suggested shweeet tubes. At any rate, here is where the WA22 resides: between an Audio Electronics PH-1 DJH phono preamp and a PrimaLuna DiaLogue 2. Silver between Black (well actually the PrimaLuna is really a dark blue). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 








 Is that a tube tester at the far left?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Redcarmoose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a tube tester at the far left?_

 

Yes it is. It is an NRI Professional Tube Tester Model 70. One of three that I own. I love gadgets.


----------



## Redcarmoose

OMG,That thing makes my Heath kit look like a transistor radio!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Redcarmoose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG,That thing makes my Heath kit look like a transistor radio!_

 

You're so funny. Transistor radio! Actually the photo is deceiving. The NRI 70 Tube Tester measures only 10.75 x 10.75 x 6.25 inches (27cm x 27cm x 16cm) and weighs 10.4 lbs (4.7 kg).


----------



## Clayton SF

Here's something curious. Here's a picture of the Woo Audio 5 from a 6moons audio review with its unbolted transformer covers--the transformers are not potted with wax. Now why is that? And if the WA22 transformers are also not potted with wax wouldn't the amp run cooler if I unbolted my transformer covers? Unless of course they ARE potted with wax. I'd have to unbolt the covers to find out. Okay, maybe not yet. Remember what could happen [FLASH]


----------



## Redcarmoose

Jack will know.


----------



## nattonrice

I swear I remember seeing a wa6 (se ?) with just the toroid sitting inside of the cover, no potting material.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I swear I remember seeing a wa6 (se ?) with just the toroid sitting inside of the cover, no potting material._

 

Maybe I should ask Jack if I can remove the transformer covers so that they run cooler. Then again, what if my pet gecko decides to hide in there before I fire-up that amp. A sad thought indeed.


----------



## Clayton SF

My living room is not quietest room in my apartment but it is where I have my WA22. This morning, and it being Sunday, my living room was almost dead silent. No traffic outside zooming by like a normal business day. And guess what? I noticed a slight hum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 through my HD650 on the WA22. It sounds slightly left of center--very slightly. When I unplug the headphones there is no hum. It is a very low-level hum (and not a buzz). I am using all of the stock tubes and so far I've logged in about 50 hours on the amp. I've sent Jack an email. I am now experiencing the angst that TheAudioDude had had before last Thanksgiving weekend.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Jack is now shipping a Russian 5Z4G with the WA22 as part of the solution to rid the hum in TheAudioDude's WA22 and that's the rectifier I have. I am going to swap out the stock rectifier with another and let you know what I find (or not).


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My living room is not quietest room in my apartment but it is where I have my WA22. This morning, and it being Sunday, my living room was almost dead silent. No traffic outside zooming by like a normal business day. And guess what? I noticed a slight hum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 through my HD650 on the WA22. It sounds slightly left of center--very slightly. When I unplug the headphones there is no hum. It is a very low-level hum (and not a buzz). I am using all of the stock tubes and so far I've logged in about 50 hours on the amp. I've sent Jack an email. I am now experiencing the angst that TheAudioDude had had before last Thanksgiving weekend.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Jack is now shipping a Russian 5Z4G with the WA22 as part of the solution to rid the hum in TheAudioDude's WA22 and that's the rectifier I have. I am going to swap out the stock rectifier with another and let you know what I find (or not)._

 


 Try different set of tube and see what happens


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try different set of tube and see what happens_

 

I swapped out 3 rectifiers. I let them warm up for 30 minutes and cool down for 30 minutes before swapping them out:

 1) 5Z4G Russian (stock)
 2) 5Y3G Marconi
 3) 5Z4G Brimar

 They all exhibit the same low-level hum on the HD650. What's interesting is that the hum seems to fluctuate in volume during the listening period. I can hear it during quiet passages of music and also when there is no input signal to the WA22.


----------



## Seamaster

Have you try to swap other tubes rather than rectifier?


----------



## pedalhead

Have you checked for potential interference from another device? I had a hum issue early on with my WA22 and it turned out to be the CI Audio psu for my squeezebox3. moving it a few more inches away solved the problem.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you try to swap other tubes rather than rectifier?_

 

I thought that I'd start with the rectifier. I guess it's on to the other tubes as well. Your WA22 is quiet isn't it?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you checked for potential interference from another device? I had a hum issue early on with my WA22 and it turned out to be the CI Audio psu for my squeezebox3. moving it a few more inches away solved the problem._

 

I'll see if I can move it to a more secluded location (Mars 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). It is right next to the PrimaLuna and a tube phono preamp, which was off at the time. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought that I'd start with the rectifier. I guess it's on to the other tubes as well. Your WA22 is quiet isn't it?_

 

Yes, I am very lucky on this one. My amp is always dead quite (for a tube amp), I got noise or hum ONLY when I fresh swap tubes, then quite down again if given it a little time. In most case, not 100% case, noise will come from left channel. This is something about the design I guess.


----------



## IctusBrucks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I swapped out 3 rectifiers. I let them warm up for 30 minutes and cool down for 30 minutes before swapping them out:

 1) 5Z4G Russian (stock)
 2) 5Y3G Marconi
 3) 5Z4G Brimar

 They all exhibit the same low-level hum on the HD650. What's interesting is that the hum seems to fluctuate in volume during the listening period. I can hear it during quiet passages of music and also when there is no input signal to the WA22._

 



 After noticing the same thing, I did some experimentation with this last night. I found that the Sylvania 7236 was my biggest source of hum. Only one of my 7236 is 'noisy' since I can switch them around and the strongest noise will come out of that side of the headphones.


 I put in the GE 6AS7 and now its almost dead quiet. 

 Still get a tiny bit more noise with 274B but I think its just a bit more resolving than the russian 5Z4G.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IctusBrucks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After noticing the same thing, I did some experimentation with this last night. I found that the Sylvania 7236 was my biggest source of hum. Only one of my 7236 is 'noisy' since I can switch them around and the strongest noise will come out of that side of the headphones.

 I put in the GE 6AS7 and now its almost dead quiet. 

 Still get a tiny bit more noise with 274B but I think its just a bit more resolving than the russian 5Z4G._

 

Well here are my findings so far. Tubes in Bold/Italic fonts are not the stock tubes:

 1) 5Z4G (stock) + 6SN7 (stock) + GE 6SN7 (low-level noise, slightly left) 
 2) 5Z4G (stock) + 6SN7 (stock) + *RCA 6AS7* (a bit more noise than #1)
 3) *Amperex GZ34* + *GE 6SN7* + *RCA 6AS7* (same noise level as #2)
 4) *Amperex GZ34* + 6SN7 (stock) + GE 6SN7 (same low-level noise as #1)

*[size=medium]SHOOT! I put in a Dario Miniwatt GZ32 and the tube sparked and now my WA22 does not turn on at all. I'll check the fuse. It may just be a bum NOS tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I get this working again I'll quit for the evening and make myself a drink.[/size]*


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well here are my findings so far. Tubes in Bold/Italic fonts are not the stock tubes:

 1) 5Z4G (stock) + 6SN7 (stock) + GE 6SN7 (low-level noise, slightly left) 
 2) 5Z4G (stock) + 6SN7 (stock) + *RCA 6AS7* (a bit more noise than #1)
 3) *Amperex GZ34* + *GE 6SN7* + *RCA 6AS7* (same noise level as #2)
 4) *Amperex GZ34* + 6SN7 (stock) + GE 6SN7 (same low-level noise as #1)

*[size=medium]SHOOT! I put in a Dario Miniwatt GZ32 and the tube sparked and now my WA22 does not turn on at all. I'll check the fuse. It may just be a bum NOS tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I get this working again I'll quit for the evening and make myself a drink.[/size]*_

 

Ouch!!! I hope your WA22 is okay man
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that all tube amps have a hum to some degree. My tube amp isn't completely hum-free, but it is a bit quieter than before. It's such a minute amount of hum that I don't even care because if my music is even one notch up on the volume dial, it's louder than the hum.

 I'm sure that some of my hum is being caused by a combination of the wiring in my apartment/having the WA22 plugged into the same surge protector as my T.V., cable box, DAC, lamp, receiver. Has anyone tried something like the Belkin PureAV? Has that had any effect on your equipment?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch!!! I hope your WA22 is okay man
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that all tube amps have a hum to some degree. My tube amp isn't completely hum-free, but it is a bit quieter than before. It's such a minute amount of hum that I don't even care because if my music is even one notch up on the volume dial, it's louder than the hum.

 I'm sure that some of my hum is being caused by a combination of the wiring in my apartment/having the WA22 plugged into the same surge protector as my T.V., cable box, DAC, lamp, receiver. Has anyone tried something like the Belkin PureAV? Has that had any effect on your equipment?_

 

Now it's serious. I tuned on my WA22 and after the blue light stopped blinking it blew the fuse and shut down. I replaced the fuse and turned on the amp again to HI and listened to my HD650. After 30 minutes I switched LO to used my K701 and it blew the fuse again. What is going on? I am running out of fuses. I am using stock tubes. Really not good. Why would it blow fuses under those conditions? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sending Jack an email immediately.


----------



## mikeymad

My WA5 was burning up fuses at one point it turned out to be an issue with the transformer... I think that you are on the right track - get Jack in the loop... good luck..

 Cheers,


----------



## TheAudioDude

Yeah, perhaps you damaged the transformer. Are you 100% sure that tube you tried is compatible with the amp?

 I'd open up the amp and take a look inside to see if anything is burnt up. If you have an ohm-meter try seeing if any simple component got damaged.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, perhaps you damaged the transformer. Are you 100% sure that tube you tried is compatible with the amp?

 I'd open up the amp and take a look inside to see if anything is burnt up. If you have an ohm-meter try seeing if any simple component got damaged._

 

The tube is a GZ32 and Seamaster has it listed as one to use. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/got...bility-450276/ I've used that tube in a WA6 with no problems. What would I be looking for in my opened-up amp? Something melted or burnt? I don't smell anything acrid. I'll open it up anyway. I've got several emails off to Jack. Just waiting for his response. I've had enough for one evening. And not enough fuses. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your help. Boo hoo!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The tube is a GZ32 and Seamaster has it listed as one to use. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/got...bility-450276/ I've used that tube in a WA6 with no problems. What would I be looking for in my opened-up amp? Something melted or burnt? I don't smell anything acrid. I'll open it up anyway. I've got several emails off to Jack. Just waiting for his response. I've had enough for one evening. And not enough fuses. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your help. Boo hoo!_

 

Yeah, you'd be looking for anything out of the ordinary; something burnt, blackened, etc.

 I doubt you'd find anything since the amp works fine on the hi-impedance setting, but not on the lo-impedance setting. They both use the same circuit, but I think that when you switch from hi to lo impedance (and vice versa) it's only changing between different turns on the transformer. So it sounds like your transformer was somehow damaged, and when you switch to the lo-impedance setting it's drawing too much current. The windings may have been shorted. Although I could be wrong; you're better off seeing what Jack has to say about it.


----------



## Seamaster

Sorry to hear that, I have been using Mazda GZ32 on my amp without any issue. TheAudioDude maybe right, check on transformers


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to hear that, I have been using Mazda GZ32 on my amp without any issue. TheAudioDude maybe right, check on transformers_

 

Unless you are a great DIYer, I would just consult with Jack and do what he says to do.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to hear that, I have been using Mazda GZ32 on my amp without any issue. TheAudioDude maybe right, check on transformers_

 

So I need to unbolt all three of those lids and check for anything unusual? I'll also email Jack. Thanks.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I need to unbolt all three of those lids and check for anything unusual? I'll also email Jack. Thanks._

 

UNPLUG the amp. Open them up one by one and smell in side 1st, looking for any burn, discoloring or lose or touching wires


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UNPLUG the amp. Open them up one by one and smell in side 1st, looking for any burn, discoloring or lose or touching wires_

 

Seamaster, I don't smell anything bad or acrid like burning "something" or an electrical smell, should I still open it up? It still smells like new.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seamaster, I don't smell anything bad or acrid like burning "something" or an electrical smell, should I still open it up? It still smells like new._

 

Still I would open them to look. If there is nothing unusual, I would send the amp to jack, let him to deal with it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still I would open them to look. If there is nothing unusual, I would send the amp to jack, let him to deal with it._

 

I'm actually not too worried about it. I'm going to get some fuses tonight and replace the spent one. I'm confident that the WA22 will be fine after that. I mean, that's why this amp has a fuse, it's there to do protect the circuits. It's just torture to have to wait 24 hours before I can get back to my listening pleasure.

 I am looking into other rectifiers to use with the WA22. So when a seller advises me to "check your amp's circuit to make sure you can use this rectifier," what am I checking for? Does anyone have the circuit specs for the WA22 to ensure that one will choose a rectifier that won't tax the amp's circuit? I know there are various personal tube lists out there that are compiled by individuals who are successfully rolling tubes but is there an official list from Jack? Jack is very busy and I didn't want to bother him with a request for a rectifier list for the WA22 if there is already one on hand. THANKS!


----------



## tosehee

Any 5U4g, gz32, gz34, 5ar4, 274b would work I suppose. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any 5U4g, gz32, gz34, 5ar4, 274b would work I suppose. Correct me if I am wrong._

 

Well all is safe. SNAFU avoided. I replaced the fuse (a 3.15A / 250V slow-blow fuse from Radio Shack) and everything is a sweet as ever. Music abounds and I am once again in heaven. Not to mention that Jack addressed the situation immediately--hurray for him and I give him high accolades for the quick the responses to my enquiries. Here he responds to my question:

*Me*: I replaced the fuse in the WA22 with a 3.15 amperes, 250V slow-blow fuse. The amp works and sounds great. I don't know why it blew a fuse in the first place. It is safe to assume that the amp is okay and the transformers weren't damaged if the fuse blew? Or should I inspect it?

*Jack*: It is not unusual for the fuse blow up quickly as it did because a) your GZ32 is deteriorating or defected; and b) it was the wrong fuse; however, the GZ32 can be used on the WA22 safely. Its heater current is actually lower than the 5U4G so there is no problem there. Not all amps can use a wide range of rectifiers as our amps because their power supply cannot handle high current.

 I concur with his findings on the matter because regardless of whether or not the GZ32 was defective, I did replace the 3.15A /250V blown fuse with a 1A / 250V fuse--bad move. This was confirmed to me by *atbglenn*. Thanks for pointing that out, Glenn. Also thanks to *Seamaster, TheAudioDude, IctusBrucks, pedalhead, tosehee, and everyone else* who joined in with suggestions on how to resurrect my WA22 from _blown-fuse fatigue._

*SO PLEASE, A NOTE TO THE WOO WISE: The replacement fuse for your WA22 is a 3 to 4 amperes, 250V slow-blow fuse.*

 My Woo Audio 22 is singing again!!! And so am I


----------



## tosehee

That's a good info for rest of WA22 users. Glad to hear that your WA22 is safe and sound..


----------



## atbglenn

For those of you who don't know what fuses are used in Woo Amplifiers, they are 5 x 20mm (physical size), either fast blow (indicated by an "F") or slow blow (indicated by a "T') 
 For example: The fuse in my WA6 reads F3A 250 Volts = 3 amp fast blow. The voltage rating tell you what the fuse can safely handle.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still I would open them to look. If there is nothing unusual, I would send the amp to jack, let him to deal with it._

 

Leave Jack and Co. alone so he can dedicate and devote 100% of his time building my WES


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Leave Jack and Co. alone so he can dedicate and devote 100% of his time building my WES 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's funny. Good looking out budy


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Leave Jack and Co. alone so he can dedicate and devote 100% of his time building my WES 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey, you wore out the Stax jack on my WES prototype. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Being slightly loose in gripping my headphone plug now, it can make a static'y noise if I slightly tug on the headphone cable when listening from the side or at an angle. 

 It's not bad enough to send it back, but it's apparently gotten a lot of use since Canjam. I'd say 10 years worth in just 6 months. Everything else is exactly as I expected, and it hardly looks used. I just wish this had been picked up before it shipped to me.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Man My 3+ is out of one of those fog spurts with the Blackgates. Man it has been a bumpy ride until now. The sound is clearer, the bass is a little thumpy now. The sound is pretty good right now. Hope it doesn't go soft and soothing again. Knew I would go through hell with the Blackgates. Have some decent tubes coming.


----------



## Henerenry

Still waiting for my woo2 to be built


----------



## BIG POPPA

What tubes and toys have you bought for this amp? I spent a few hundred dollars in a few weeks just waiting for my amp. If you haven't it is a good time!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, you wore out the Stax jack on my WES prototype. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Being slightly loose in gripping my headphone plug now, it can make a static'y noise if I slightly tug on the headphone cable when listening from the side or at an angle. 

 It's not bad enough to send it back, but it's apparently gotten a lot of use since Canjam. I'd say 10 years worth in just 6 months. Everything else is exactly as I expected, and it hardly looks used. I just wish this had been picked up before it shipped to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

HDA.

 Is your impression/review of WES coming any time soon?

 I know it's a great sounding amp for stax, but I really respect your honest and subjective review of gears. It would be great to read your take on WES compared to your previous stax gear.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What tubes and toys have you bought for this amp? I spent a few hundred dollars in a few weeks just waiting for my amp. If you haven't it is a good time!_

 

Do tell, BIG POPPA, what were your tubes and toys of choice during your few weeks of waiting?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HDA.

 Is your impression/review of WES coming any time soon?

 I know it's a great sounding amp for stax, but I really respect your honest and subjective review of gears. It would be great to read your take on WES compared to your previous stax gear._

 

Right now the Woo WES is THE BEST amp for Stax, HE60 and Jade that I have ever heard or owned. (the A-10 was great with HE90 and Jade, pretty good with O2 Mk1, but not so good with O2 Mk2 and HE60 - could be tubes) 

 I really liked my previous GES over all the Stax brand amps or the new eXStatA, for it's wonderful timbre and tone and euphonic sound, but it was lacking in power with O2 Mk1 and had a more forward narrower soundstage than the balanced SRM-717 or eXStatA. It's soundstage was on par with the SRM-T1, and tone/power was similar to the SRM-T1 except for better micro-detail and bass definition.

 With the WES my O2 finally can keep up with my HD800 on the ZDT. In some ways the combo sounds better now, except for the smaller soundstage which is still very precise in it's imaging. The WES has all the rich vibrant mids of the GES with better bass and treble extension, a much bigger wider deeper and separated soundstage than the GES, and a good bit more power. The music is very vibrant and alive now, with good dynamic range.

 If you don't have the Stax O2, the Jade and HE60 still sound better on the WES, even thought the GES had enough power.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Let see, A set of Herbies, Sylvania 7236, Matched set of RCA E88CC, Matched Tesla (not jj)E88CC Rhodium. A pair of Jan Phillips 6922, Pair Amperex Bugle boy 6dj8's, Several CD's Black Sabbath, Avett Brothers, Rolling Stones, and a few more. And I have a pair of Mullard CV 2984 coming, Just recently ordered those. It will pass the time having a bunch of stuff come to your mail box.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let see, A set of Herbies, Sylvania 7236, Matched set of RCA E88CC, Matched Tesla (not jj)E88CC Rhodium. A pair of Jan Phillips 6922, Pair Amperex Bugle boy 6dj8's, Several CD's Black Sabbath, Avett Brothers, Rolling Stones, and a few more. And I have a pair of Mullard CV 2984 coming, Just recently ordered those. It will pass the time having a bunch of stuff come to your mail box._

 

Great choices!!! Those particular tubes and toys you've mentioned would certainly put a smile on my face while waiting for the BIG TOY. Actually, just mentioning the brand Mullard would put a smile on my face.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Now the amp is burning in. Man the sound changes almost everyday. Some days are better than others. Can't wait to slap the Mullard when it gets here. Now if I can find a GEC 6AS7 and a Genalex I would be very happy.


----------



## tosehee

Thanks a bunch for WES impression, HDA.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's funny. Good looking out budy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's a cold cruel world out there.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, you wore out the Stax jack on my WES prototype. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Being slightly loose in gripping my headphone plug now, it can make a static'y noise if I slightly tug on the headphone cable when listening from the side or at an angle. I just wish this had been picked up before it shipped to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You can ask the other attendees at the mini meet at my house, but there was nothing loose on any of the headphones that we used with your amp. I'm not sure if Jack checked over the amp before he sent it to you. We really appreciate that you allowed us to listen to it, I know waiting for it for and extra week must have been a painstaking experience.

 The only headphone that fit in a little tight, was the Jade, along with the pins being a little longer.
 If it's really a serious problem, please have Jack send you another Stax jack, or send it back to him, and I will be happy to pay for shipping and the cost of installing a new Stax jack. Unfortunately, this is a problem inherent to buying an amp that has been around the block a bit, but if we would have noticed any looseness or static, I would have had Jack take care of the problem and footed the bill, b4 forwarding to you. 

 Sorry that this is the case. I will make amends. It is my responsibility as the borrower. Your words are a bit accusatory though, and leave no other possibilities open. It could have happened at RMAF or the NYC meet and the 4 of us just didn't hear it.


----------



## Seamaster

Pop open my WA22 today. I see whole bunch Rubuycon and Nichicon caps. The amp is capable sound a lot of better with better caps. But it is not esay to swap them.

http://gvamlq.bay.livefilestore.com/...q/P1010292.JPG








 I will ask Dan at Modwright to redo the center section of the amp where is the PC board at. But cost is a big question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any help or input?


----------



## Clayton SF

Have you asked Jack if perhaps there will be a future upgrade that he'll perform on the WA22 with specs that you'd outline for him. Or maybe Jack has a schematics of his own? And if Dan at Modwright does the mods are they your specs or Dan's or a collaboration? A curious project none the less with great outcome to say the least. Looking forward to the results.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you asked Jack if perhaps there will be a future upgrade that he'll perform on the WA22 with specs that you'd outline for him. Or maybe Jack has a schematics of his own? And if Dan at Modwright does the mods are they your specs or Dan's or a collaboration? A curious project none the less with great outcome to say the least. Looking forward to the results._

 

I spent 10+ hours to study different caps. End up black gate is just big name rated 2.5~3 star out of 5. And the caps in the WA22 are..... you know.

 " Saying anything about Blackgate caps is entering into a religious war. Some people swear by them, others find them to be all hype. To me, in a signal path, they sound slightly more grainy and less detailed than good film caps. However, they also seem to have a warm fuzzy sort of sound that can be really pleasing (though I have heard this is unique to the N series.) One particularly useful thing about them is that they are small and come in large values and thus can be used where film caps do not fit, or do not exist (which is particularly the case if you need a large cap such as at the output of a headphone amp where 470uF is a common size, and 1000uF is not unreasonable), and this may be where they are best.. However, I'll note that people like Audiosector who are neither space nor value limited use them as output caps in their TDA1543 based NOS DAC. So, all of that is to say that there are times that they might be the right choice, and times that they are not. Fortunately, in the 4.7uF size, it is not particularly expensive to figure this out. "

 Jack is so busy to fill the orders, upgrade is out of picture for a loooooong time. Beside blackgates are not the best option anyway. They sound too thick. 

 I hope cap upgrade will cost some where around $600~$800, otherwise WA22 is not worthy.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can ask the other attendees at the mini meet at my house, but there was nothing loose on any of the headphones that we used with your amp. I'm not sure if Jack checked over the amp before he sent it to you. We really appreciate that you allowed us to listen to it, I know waiting for it for and extra week must have been a painstaking experience.

 The only headphone that fit in a little tight, was the Jade, along with the pins being a little longer.
 If it's really a serious problem, please have Jack send you another Stax jack, or send it back to him, and I will be happy to pay for shipping and the cost of installing a new Stax jack. Unfortunately, this is a problem inherent to buying an amp that has been around the block a bit, but if we would have noticed any looseness or static, I would have had Jack take care of the problem and footed the bill, b4 forwarding to you. 

 Sorry that this is the case. I will make amends. It is my responsibility as the borrower. Your words are a bit accusatory though, and leave no other possibilities open. It could have happened at RMAF or the NYC meet and the 4 of us just didn't hear it._

 

I put in the smiley faces to indicate I was teasing you. 

 I also said "...it's apparently gotten a lot of use since Canjam. I'd say 10 years worth in just 6 months." - which means I was acknowledging the fact that it wasn't just from a weekend of your using it. Don't worry about it.

 The jack is tighter with my Jade, but with my O2 Mk1 I can wiggle it a bit, which I couldn't do with my GES. I'm going to see if Jack will send me a Jack.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I put in the smiley faces to indicate I was teasing you. 

 I also said "...it's apparently gotten a lot of use since Canjam. I'd say 10 years worth in just 6 months." - which means I was acknowledging the fact that it wasn't just from a weekend of your using it. Don't worry about it.

 The jack is tighter with my Jade, but with my O2 Mk1 I can wiggle it a bit, which I couldn't do with my GES. I'm going to see if Jack will send me a Jack._

 

I'm actually afraid that the Jade was the culprit in the first place. Longer pins that seem a little wider.
 You might have to go the Jack Squared route. Jack's jack.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pop open my WA22 today. I see whole bunch Rubuycon and Nichicon caps. The amp is capable sound a lot of better with better caps. But it is not esay to swap them.

http://gvamlq.bay.livefilestore.com/...q/P1010292.JPG

 I will ask Dan at Modwright to redo the center section of the amp where is the PC board at. But cost is a big question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any help or input?_

 

Hey! Your insides are different from my insides. You are blue and I am green. I think blue looks really regal. Yes, blue is nice. I also see that you've done a lot of homework on caps. If Blackgates have 2.5~3 star out of 5, then what caps are rated higher and are they readily available? I guess I need to do some cap homework myself!


----------



## BIG POPPA

Jack only charged 150 bucks to install the Blackgates and 80 bucks for the WBT RCA's in the 3+. To me this was a no brainer after the 75 bucks for the Teflon Tube bases and 20 bucks to install the Furutech Rhodium IEC I had sent him. Everything was like 850 bucks plus 30 bucks for the IEC. Then all the stuff I got while waiting.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey! Your insides are different from my insides. You are blue and I am green. I think blue looks really regal. Yes, blue is nice. I also see that you've done a lot of homework on caps. If Blackgates have 2.5~3 star out of 5, then what caps are rated higher and are they readily available? I guess I need to do some cap homework myself! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








_

 

V-cap one of the best, but not my tast. Mondorf silver oil or Jensen copper in paper tube (new version). All depend where you put them in the amp. And then I am not sure about Modwright's own cap. But their products are well known for great SQ. Looks like swap cap is not a easy job since you have to desolder the whole board to get those caps. My amp is an earlier version than yours I guess and have extra preamp section.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack only charged 150 bucks to install the Blackgates and 80 bucks for the WBT RCA's in the 3+. To me this was a no brainer after the 75 bucks for the Teflon Tube bases and 20 bucks to install the Furutech Rhodium IEC I had sent him. Everything was like 850 bucks plus 30 bucks for the IEC. Then all the stuff I got while waiting._

 

That's the kind price I am looking for. But checked Modwright's website, all his Mod are over $1000 USD almost.


----------



## tosehee

Well, he charges a lot for his work, for his own right. 

 The desoldering that board doesn't seem so hard actually. If you look carefully, there are 10 places where you need to desolder (4 up, 2 right, 2 left, 4 down), and even if there are more places, I don't think that's an issue. The wires seem to be long enough to re-apply the solder later.

 I have a local guy here who repairs the cell phones. He can solder the tiny places in cell phone and he does like 100 phones per day. To professional solders, de-soldering and apply the new one would be an easy task.

 I will have to study on the V-Caps and other film caps for a future upgrade myself.


----------



## Seamaster

The WA22 does have soul. Form what I learn V-cap will take that quality away form this amp. My solder job is very very bad, so I don't want to do it myself.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA22 does have soul. Form what I learn V-cap will take that quality away form this amp. My solder job is very very bad, so I don't want to do it myself._

 

Right.

 I meant for professional soldiers and DIYs.

 As for actual caps, what other options are there other than v-cap and black gate?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey all WA22 owners, I noticed that on Jack's website the Woo Audio 22's tech specs lists a DACT CT4 balanced stereo stepped attenuator but when I photographed mine it says DACT CT2. Does anyone know if there a marked difference between the two? Thanks! Clayton


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all WA22 owners, I noticed that on Jack's website the Woo Audio 22's tech specs lists a DACT CT4 balanced stereo stepped attenuator but when I photographed mine it says DACT CT2. Does anyone know if there a marked difference between the two? Thanks! Clayton




_

 

The audio volume controls CT2 is a high quality stepped 24-position attenuator. It was designed for maximum sonic quality, accuracy and reliability.

 This makes it equally suited for audiophile applications and for professional applications. The series resistor networks consist of 23 non-inductive, low noise, SMD metal film resistors. The layout of the PC board and the choice of SMD resistors have reduced the signal path to a minimum length (typical five times shorter than conventional stepped attenuator designs with leaded resistors). The PCB design combined with the special resistors also account for the very low series inductance and the very low stray capacitance. The result is a bandwidth beyond even the most demanding audiophiles requirements.

 The DACT CT4 stepped stereo balance controls compliment the CT2 stepped attenuators and are made to the same high precision and quality. The 25 kOhm balance control is designed especially for 10 kOhm attenuators and the 250 kOhm balance control for 100 kOhm (or lower) attenuators.

 Mine is CT2

 CT2 is $50 USD more expensive than CT4


----------



## IctusBrucks

I just got the Amperex GZ34 tube I ordered off e-bay.

 As I was unpacking it, the tube fell out of the cardboard sleeve and onto the wooden floor. Didn't break the outter shell, but there is now a small piece of loose glass rattling around inside the tube. Can't tell what it's from.

 Could I possibly ruin my amp if I plug this tube in??? Would it be worth testing it with a tube tester, and if so can anybody recommend one, or do you think I'm better off just considering the tube a loss?


----------



## Seamaster

If tube tester tested good, it is ok to use. I have tube like that have small piece of glass chip lose inside, works just fine


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The audio volume controls CT2 is a high quality stepped 24-position attenuator. It was designed for maximum sonic quality, accuracy and reliability.

 This makes it equally suited for audiophile applications and for professional applications. The series resistor networks consist of 23 non-inductive, low noise, SMD metal film resistors. The layout of the PC board and the choice of SMD resistors have reduced the signal path to a minimum length (typical five times shorter than conventional stepped attenuator designs with leaded resistors). The PCB design combined with the special resistors also account for the very low series inductance and the very low stray capacitance. The result is a bandwidth beyond even the most demanding audiophiles requirements.

 The DACT CT4 stepped stereo balance controls compliment the CT2 stepped attenuators and are made to the same high precision and quality. The 25 kOhm balance control is designed especially for 10 kOhm attenuators and the 250 kOhm balance control for 100 kOhm (or lower) attenuators.

 Mine is CT2

 CT2 is $50 USD more expensive than CT4_

 

Thanks. So then it's probably a typo on Jack's website. The CT4 is listed as a WA22 standard and not an upgrade (which is a $215 option on some of his other amps).


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. So then it's probably a typo on Jack's website. The CT4 is listed as a WA22 standard and not an upgrade (which is a $215 option on some of his other amps)._

 

 DACT CT4 and CT2 are high quality parts.


----------



## Bohemianism

How much wiggle room should there be, I just noticed my tubes can move side to side quite a bit. I didn't notice it before because I've never did it as I know it's just good. I did it very gently and noticed they can movie quite a bit. When I go to pull them out straight up they are fairly filmy in there.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bohemianism* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much wiggle room should there be, I just noticed my tubes can move side to side quite a bit. I didn't notice it before because I've never did it as I know it's just good. I did it very gently and noticed they can movie quite a bit. When I go to pull them out straight up they are fairly filmy in there._

 

My tubes seem quite loose too, like a loose tooth--loose from side to side but really firmly in place and hard to pull out. In fact they seem to settle one way or the other the longer my amp is on (like to the left or to the right, backward or forward) like the leaning Tower of Pisa.


----------



## Bohemianism

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_like a loose tooth--loose from side to side but really firmly in place and hard to pull out. :_

 

That's the perfect way to describe it.
 Is this normal for other people too?


----------



## aRRR

Yes


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

You may try to push the tube pin slightly inwards and this will tighten the feel.


----------



## Seamaster

Hum...... all the sockets on my amp ar every tight, it is very hard to pull tubes somethimes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hum...... all the sockets on my amp ar every tight, it is very hard to pull tubes somethimes._

 

Although my Teflon sockets are still very tight, the once very bright and gold sockets are now dingy and copper-looking. I guess it's from those NOS tubes with dirty pins. Is rubbing alcohol okay to use to clean dirty pins? Especially the ones on the octal tubes? Those pins are sometimes just very cruddy.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although my Teflon sockets are still very tight, the once very bright and gold sockets are now dingy and copper-looking. I guess it's from those NOS tubes with dirty pins. Is rubbing alcohol okay to use to clean dirty pins? Especially the ones on the octal tubes? Those pins are sometimes just very cruddy._

 

Use DeoxIT ® GOLD, you won't regret! I clean all my tube pins with them before use, I clean all my sockets and connectors very 2 months. They are still shinny like new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Home - CAIG Laboratories, Inc.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I use the Caig too. Easy enhancement. Cheaper than buying tubes!! Buying a lot lately.


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all WA22 owners, I noticed that on Jack's website the Woo Audio 22's tech specs lists a DACT CT4 balanced stereo stepped attenuator but when I photographed mine it says DACT CT2. Does anyone know if there a marked difference between the two? Thanks! Clayton_

 

CT2 is Dact's current line of stepped attenuators. 
 They are available in mono, stereo, balanced stereo, 6 and 8 gang.

 CT4 must be a miss print because the CT4 line are balance controls.

 That one that you have is a CT2. Everyone has the same one.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DACT CT4 and CT2 are high quality parts._

 

They are used for two different jobs.


----------



## DarKu

double post


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am glad that my tube rolling days are over now. I am happy with the current tubes consisting of Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B & Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 on my amp & Western Electric NOS JW 2C51/396A on the DAC.

 I am spending time on tweaking my DAC for now.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

~double post~


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am glad that my tube rolling days are over now. I am happy with the current tubes consisting of Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B, Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 & Western Electric NOS JW 2C51/396A.

 I am spending time on tweaking my DAC for now._

 


 Hey OutdoorXplorer, how's the Western Electric NOS JW 2C51/396A working with the WA6SE? Are they similar to 6EW or any others? I've tried the 6EW7, 6DE7, 6DR7, 6FD7 & 6CY7 but never heard these JW 2C51/396A can work with the WA6SE, do you have any comment with it's sound? Thanks.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey OutdoorXplorer, how's the Western Electric NOS JW 2C51/396A working with the WA6SE? Are they similar to 6EW or any others? I've tried the 6EW7, 6DE7, 6DR7, 6FD7 & 6CY7 but never heard these JW 2C51/396A can work with the WA6SE, do you have any comment with it's sound? Thanks._

 

The WE396A is for my Havana DAC.. Perhaps I shouldn't name it here I guess..


----------



## dannie01

Oh, sorry for my mis-unstanding.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

No worries. It was my fault of not making it clear and I have rectified my earlier post. Thank you for pointing. So which tube you love most? 

 I have not try out 6CY7 and wonder how it sounds. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, sorry for my mis-unstanding._


----------



## dannie01

I love the Raytheon 6EW7 fat bottle when playing in classical music, they have a warm feeling and big soundstage with the SP 274B and the GE 6FD7 fat bottle for vocal and something have bass, the 6FD7 is punchy and solid with detail. And I can say I don't like much of the 6CY7, it sounds a bit raw and fatigue even the Tung Sol's NOS.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, has anyone tried metal tube rectifiers? I've seen some on eBay like the 5Z4.


----------



## Seamaster

So far on WA22 5Z3, and GZ34 sound the best. Still I have lost of imapct issue with EML. I might end up sell it.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far on WA22 5Z3, and GZ34 sound the best. Still I have lost of imapct issue with EML. I might end up sell it._

 

Keep me in mind if you consider trading it with a Sophia Princess 274B Mesh...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far on WA22 5Z3, and GZ34 sound the best. Still I have lost of imapct issue with EML. I might end up sell it._

 

What happened? How did a tube so highly recommened become a dud? That's too bad. I guess beauty is not everything. Did it age quickly and loose it's "punch?" I just bought a NOS CV1863 for $16 from UK. It's a Military tube. I hope I got a diamond in the ruff.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep me in mind if you consider trading it with a Sophia Princess 274B Mesh..._

 

I am ordering it now! I will have my own shoot out between those two tubes


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What happened? How did a tube so highly recommened become a dud? That's too bad. I guess beauty is not everything. Did it age quickly and loose it's "punch?" I just bought a NOS CV1863 for $16 from UK. It's a Military tube. I hope I got a diamond in the ruff._

 

When pair with HD800, EML's lack of impact did more harm than help. I had EML on my WA22 at Seattle mini meet. Everyone think my amp is too soft, too lush, and can't rock out. EML still the king of soundstage, high, 3D image, and sense of space, BUT miss the low bass note is kind make music less enjoyble.


----------



## Clayton SF

If EML is king of soundstage, then what needs to be done with the WA22 to make it the king of amps when paired with HD800. Maybe the HD800s are the culprit and not the EML. Are the HD800s a bit anemic when it come to bass?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If EML is king of soundstage, then what needs to be done with the WA22 to make it the king of amps when paired with HD800. Maybe the HD800s are the culprit and not the EML. Are the HD800s a bit anemic when it come to bass?_

 

Sondstage only can stretch so far, then become fake. 

 It depends on amp used. Strange, when HD800 hooked up with Meridian G08 and Phonitor, HD800 have full body sound with kick ass bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 At same time Phonitor have less soul than WA22.

 I made my mind to let Modwright to mod the PC board where all the caps are.


----------



## IctusBrucks

Yesterday I got in my 6CG7/6FQ7 to 6SN7 adapter, and fired up the WA22 with Mazda 6CG7 (w/ Sophia 274b and 6AS7). The adapters feel very well made.

 The 6CG7 reduced just a hint of midbass bloat that was hard to tell before but obvious now. I can perceive a bit more detail and layering when multiple instruments play over each other, rock music has a bit more of an "airy" quality to it that I like. With both CV181v and 6SN7 I felt the WA22 was a little too smooth, I could go and compare it to the Benchmark DAC1 and definitely could pick out the instruments better and things felt more precise on the DAC1. Hate to say it but I honestly couldn't tell any difference between stock 6SN7 and CV181z, pretty much what everybody is saying.

 With my current tube set the WA22 is able to match the DAC1 in analytical quality while adding a bit of life into the music. I try not to get too crazy with adjectives at this part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wish I could try out the GZ34 but I don't have the guts to try out after dropping it and seeing a bit of floating glass inside the tube. I am bidding on a couple other GZ34 right now though. Comparing 5Z4G and 274b, I get slightly more 'impact' with the 5Z4G, but it does add to the 'smoothness' of the music and I feel some detail is lost. 274b makes the sound a bit more delicate but still has tight bass and dynamics. Listening to Aphex Twin- Windowlicker at high volume confirms this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Textural sounds like fingers dragging across drumskin are rendered more realistically with 274b... there are lots of sounds I listen for in Tom Waits recordings (grainy as they are...)



 Did my listening with balanced HD-650 and SE ATH-M50. With the HD-650 the WA22 has a 100% silent background (whether SE or balanced cable is used), but with ATH-M50 (and WA22 set to low imp), I can perceive a very feint background hiss (the hiss gets much louder if you try to use ATH-M50 on the high impedance setting). Even with the M50 the hiss is pretty low.

 Not sure if the M50 are more resolving or if the WA22 just performs better for high impedance cans.


----------



## tosehee

Ictus.

 Are you comparing the CV181 with mazda or stock? How does Mazda compare to stock?


----------



## IctusBrucks

Well over the last week or so I swapped out the CV181 and 6SN7 several times and really couldn't pick out a difference. I tried but in the end just left in the 6SN7. If there is a difference it's too subtle for me to notice.

 Then I put in the Mazda 6CG7 and feel it opened up the sound a bit, a little more analytical and reduced a bit of midbass bloat.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IctusBrucks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well over the last week or so I swapped out the CV181 and 6SN7 several times and really couldn't pick out a difference. I tried but in the end just left in the 6SN7. If there is a difference it's too subtle for me to notice.

 Then I put in the Mazda 6CG7 and feel it opened up the sound a bit, a little more analytical and reduced a bit of midbass bloat._

 

Thanks for reply.

 I will find out soon enough (sigh. why is the time moving so damn slow these days), and report my finding also.


----------



## DarKu

Hey guys i think i have a problem (maybe) 

 I listened yesterday to my WA6 SE for abut 1-2 hours and i touched the Sophia Princess, it was sooo HOT! i thought for one moment that it will explode, if i remember correctly previously i can touch her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (The princess) for more than 3-4 seconds and it was not that hot, The drive tubes RCA 6FD7 are also very very HOT, much like the Sophia, how is your Woo acting? The same, or it is a problem of my amplifier? I really don't want to sent it back to Jack ...

 PS: some time ago i remember touching the drive tubes and the rectifier but it was not that hot, i hope everything is fine.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys i think i have a problem (maybe) 

 I listened yesterday to my WA6 SE for abut 1-2 hours and i touched the Sophia Princess, it was sooo HOT! i thought for one moment that it will explode, if i remember correctly previously i can touch her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (The princess) for more than 3-4 seconds and it was not that hot, The drive tubes RCA 6FD7 are also very very HOT, much like the Sophia, how is your Woo acting? The same, or it is a problem of my amplifier? I really don't want to sent it back to Jack ...

 PS: some time ago i remember touching the drive tubes and the rectifier but it was not that hot, i hope everything is fine._

 

All the tubes on my WA22 are very very hot. I touch them by accident ONLY. If you alway handle your tubes with bare hand, you will leave oil on the glass which may cause tube run hotter. Wipe your tubes clean, and handle them with cotton gloves or your CLEAN socks.


----------



## DarKu

OK, ok i was just paranoid.
 Jack told me that it is ok to be like that, on top of the RCA is something like silver which is not so hot, yesterday i touched the lateral part of the tube which is very hot. So, my mistake, everything works just fine


----------



## Seamaster

I also notice Woo amps do not like to be ran more than 8 hours, they need break in between, like about 2 hours. Then they are good for another 8 hours. Otherwise transformers get realy hot. But also they cool down very fast too.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also notice Woo amps do not like to be ran more than 8 hours, they need break in between, like about 2 hours. Then they are good for another 8 hours. Otherwise transformers get realy hot. But also they cool down very fast too._

 

The Woo 6's transformers do not get hot, barely lukewarm even after 12 hours. Although the tubes get very hot which is totally normal..


----------



## Seamaster

I mean WA22 I have. Sorry


----------



## h.rav

^ My WA6SE transformers is also barely lukewarm after 12 hours.


----------



## atbglenn

Depending on the amplifier design and the transformer being used, they can get very hot, also normal. Back in the day I had a Dynaco MKIII poweramp I used in my bass guitar amp setup. You could not keep your hand on top of the power transformer for more than 5 seconds. I used the thing for years and never had a problem other than tube replacement. Transformers are usually pretty durable from my experience.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_) 

 I listened yesterday to my WA6 SE for abut 1-2 hours and i touched the Sophia Princess, it was sooo HOT! ._

 

Is it possible that the heat in your house/apartment, is warmer than in the AC months during the other seasons. Ambient temp plays a big role. Perhaps a small 12Volt or AC computer fan mounted behind the unit will solve the problem. That's what I use for the back of my iMac 24 by the vent at the top since it is in a small "nook" where my 19" CRT used to be. Can't breath.

 Do have any other similar tubes you can roll in to see if you yield the same results?

 Old Joke: A man walks into a doctors's office, and says, "Doc" it hurt me everytime that I do :*This*". 
 The Doctor replies, "I know just the thing, don't do *that*, anymore"!."$100 please"!


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sondstage only can stretch so far, then become fake. 

 It depends on amp used. Strange, when HD800 hooked up with Meridian G08 and Phonitor, HD800 have full body sound with kick ass bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At same time Phonitor have less soul than WA22.

 I made my mind to let Modwright to mod the PC board where all the caps are._

 

I don't know what EML you are using, but I have found the EML 274B solid plateto be a very good match for my HD-800SE, WA6SE max with circa 1963 RCA big bottles and my Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition. 
 With my Oppo BD-83 the Princes for CD and SACD sounded better than the EML, however for BD movies the EML sounded better. One of the main reasons why the Princes sounded better of its speed. 
 However with my BD-83NE the speed is about the same for both the Princes and EML. I think the reason for this is mainly because of the new 8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip and Oppos use of stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels plus the Nuforces mods. 

 ss


----------



## DannagE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Old Joke: A man walks into a doctors's office, and says, "Doc" it hurt me everytime that I do :*This*". 
 The Doctor replies, "I know just the thing, don't do *that*, anymore"!."$100 please"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah, classic Tommy Cooper joke.

 I went to the doctor the other day,
 I said 'it hurts when I do that'
 he said ' well don't do it'

 As in, don't touch the tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On other news, still waiting for shipping of my amp


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys i think i have a problem (maybe) 

 I listened yesterday to my WA6 SE for abut 1-2 hours and i touched the Sophia Princess, it was sooo HOT! i thought for one moment that it will explode, if i remember correctly previously i can touch her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (The princess) for more than 3-4 seconds and it was not that hot, The drive tubes RCA 6FD7 are also very very HOT, much like the Sophia, how is your Woo acting? The same, or it is a problem of my amplifier? I really don't want to sent it back to Jack ...

 PS: some time ago i remember touching the drive tubes and the rectifier but it was not that hot, i hope everything is fine._

 

Dude, why would you touch the tubes while the amp is on? As you've found out already, it gets really really hot.


----------



## jjinh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, why would you touch the tubes while the amp is on? As you've found out already, it gets really really hot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lol, +1, arent tubes supposed to get very warm, if not hot?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know what EML you are using, but I have found the EML 274B solid plateto be a very good match for my HD-800SE, WA6SE max with circa 1963 RCA big bottles and my Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition. 
 With my Oppo BD-83 the Princes for CD and SACD sounded better than the EML, however for BD movies the EML sounded better. One of the main reasons why the Princes sounded better of its speed. 
 However with my BD-83NE the speed is about the same for both the Princes and EML. I think the reason for this is mainly because of the new 8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip and Oppos use of stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels plus the Nuforces mods. 

 ss_

 

I did call them ask for EML 274B solid plate 1st, but I already missed the boat at that point, so I got mesh plate. EML 274B mesh did everything very very well but impact. Today I ordered Sophia 274B mesh plate, see how it goes. I also ordered T1 instead HD800.

 By the way you guys should watch movie Avatar in 3D. It blowed me away


----------



## yilmaz196

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Use DeoxIT ® GOLD, you won't regret! I clean all my tube pins with them before use, I clean all my sockets and connectors very 2 months. They are still shinny like new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Home - CAIG Laboratories, Inc._

 

 Deoxit gold is only for protect i think? We can also use this for cleaning? If not which product we can buy to clean pins on tubes?


----------



## Seamaster

No, They have cleaning product too. Or The one I use, just spray on, it does both cleanning and protect.


----------



## regal

Hello, I am looking at the Woo6 and moding it to sound as good as the SE.

 The main reason that the SE sounds better than the standard model is that the output is taken from the plates, ie no cathode follower as in the standard model. (also splitting the PS will nearly equal the SE.)

 So my question is what tube has the lowest plate resistance that works in the Woo6? Moding to a plate output will require a tube with a low plate resistance to keep the output impedance low.

 Do the standard tubes in the SE work in the standard model?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do the standard tubes in the SE work in the standard model?_

 

i believe those tubes are interchangeable between both standard and maxxed.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do the standard tubes in the SE work in the standard model?_

 

Yes. The only exception that I know of is the 6FD7, which will only work safely in the standard 6, not SE.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The only exception that I know of is the 6FD7, which will only work safely in the standard 6, not SE._

 

I totally forgotten about this.. My apologies.


----------



## DarKu

my RCA 6FD7 works like a charm in my WA6SE 2 months straight, actually it is the best drive tube for my ear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 PS: newer WA6SE can use 6FD7 without any problems


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my RCA 6FD7 works like a charm in my WA6SE 2 months straight, actually it is the best drive tube for my ear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 PS: newer WA6SE can use 6FD7 without any problems_

 

There have been reported issues using a 6FD7 in an SE. Jack said they weren't compatible, but that was a few months ago. I guess he updated it so it will work now. Good to know


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The only exception that I know of is the 6FD7, which will only work safely in the standard 6, not SE._

 

Hey Glenn, I still have a pair of GE 6FD7 fat bottle using in my WA6SE and at least for a month or more. No problem at all and it do sounds good with the SP 274B.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn, I still have a pair of GE 6FD7 fat bottle using in my WA6SE and at least for a month or more. No problem at all and it do sounds good with the SP 274B. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Danny,

 You modded yours extensively didn't you? Maybe that's why your "older" SE plays nice with that tube. If you remember correctly there were several people having problems with loud pops, snaps, etc using that tube. Jack did say not to use them in the SE.


----------



## DarKu

actualy i find it (6FD7) best for rock and electronica, it's pucnhy, fast, accurate, can i ask for more ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Also the gain (power?) is about 30-35% more with this tube


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actualy i find it (6FD7) best for rock and electronica, it's pucnhy, fast, accurate, can i ask for more ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Also the gain (power?) is about 30-35% more with this tube_

 

I sometimes use Sylvania big bottle 6FD7's in my standard 6. Lots more gain and very punchy. As you say, great for rock. For jazz I prefer Sylvania big bottle 6EW7's.


----------



## dannie01

Hi Glenn,

 Yes, I have my WA6SE modded swapped the original cathode plate caps, the 470uf/100v into 2 x BlackGate 220uf/ 160V NH. And that was told by takezo that the 6FD7s will work fine in the WA6SE.

*"actually, i meant the cathode plate cap that is one the small circuit board. jack uses
 a 470uf/100v cap there. the cathode bypass/bias cap is the 220uf/16v caps.
 anyway, mine hover around 85v when i use the 6fd7 but maybe convenants caps
 were not up to par even at 100v... it is a good idea to change it out to at least 160v
 for the 6fd7 and others. and yes, the 3% increase in current draw is what makes
 the output and power transformers a bit warmer. but it's still way inside of what jack
 told me last year when he said the output transformers will take up to 1.2A per tube
 for a total of 2.4A."*

 I hope takezo don't mind that I quote the PM here.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope takezo don't mind that I quote the PM here._

 

I don't think he'd mind. After all, we're all here to help each other in anyway we can, right?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, does anyone know if I can use metal rectifier tubes in Woos? I have a 5Z4 metal tube. I didn't want to blow up the WA22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -MeAgain


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, does anyone know if I can use metal rectifier tubes in Woos? I have a 5Z4 metal tube. I didn't want to blow up the WA22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -MeAgain




_

 


 Hey Clayton, Seamaster has put a 5Z4 in his WA22 without problem but the Amperex GZ34 sounds better.

 Edit. Sorry, my bad, he has tried the Mullard 5AS4 instead of 5Z4. Please find his thread HERE for tube rolling of his WA22.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I am looking at the Woo6 and moding it to sound as good as the SE.

 The main reason that the SE sounds better than the standard model is that the output is taken from the plates, ie no cathode follower as in the standard model. (also splitting the PS will nearly equal the SE.)

 So my question is what tube has the lowest plate resistance that works in the Woo6? Moding to a plate output will require a tube with a low plate resistance to keep the output impedance low.

 Do the standard tubes in the SE work in the standard model?_

 

According to my old "RCA Reception Tubes" manual the following are the aproximate (sic) plate resistance values for the second triode operating as a class A amplifier:

 6EW7 - 800 ohms
 6DE7 - 925 ohms
 6FD7 - 800 ohms

 cheers!


----------



## tosehee

I have no clue about plate resistance, but that 6DE7 is really awesome..


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Clayton, Seamaster has put a 5Z4 in his WA22 without problem but the Amperex GZ34 sounds better.

 Edit. Sorry, my bad, he has tried the Mullard 5AS4 instead of 5Z4. Please find his thread HERE for tube rolling of his WA22._

 

5Z3 works and sound great with WA22 with adapter. 5Z4 works with WA22 no problem, they are a part of 5AR4 family. As for Amperex GZ34, they sound cool, so you need some warm tubes to pair with.


----------



## Suprfly2k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Glenn,

 Yes, I have my WA6SE modded swapped the original cathode plate caps, the 470uf/100v into 2 x BlackGate 220uf/ 160V NH. And that was told by takezo that the 6FD7s will work fine in the WA6SE._

 

I have asked Jack whether the 6FD7 will damage my October delivered WA6SE. I'll post the verdict.


----------



## dannie01

Let us know the verdict.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have asked Jack whether the 6FD7 will damage my October delivered WA6SE.._

 

This is something new to me.. However, I never fancy the 6DE7 from the start and I prefer the 6EW7 and hate that 6FD7 doesn't work with the newer WA6SE.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Got a pair of Mullard CV2984's today. Man, they sound great with the pair of Amperex 6dj8's. The cool thing is that I have a pair of them. Only use one though. Merry Christmas to me


----------



## slayerizer

Got my WA6 w/PDPS last week and been doing the burn-in and the sound so far is great! I listen to mostly metal/rock and I'm very pleased with the results so far.

 Been listening to Black Sabbath remasters and some other stuff and the soundstage and the dynamics are great with this amp and I can hear the separation of instuments more with everything being more clear but at the same time with greater punch!

 Thanks to you all for this thread, read every single post on here! Merry Christmas!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slayerizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my WA6 w/PDPS last week and been doing the burn-in and the sound so far is great! I listen to mostly metal/rock and I'm very pleased with the results so far.

 Been listening to Black Sabbath remasters and some other stuff and the soundstage and the dynamics are great with this amp and I can hear the separation of instuments more with everything being more clear but at the same time with greater punch!

 Thanks to you all for this thread, read every single post on here! Merry Christmas!_

 

Congrats on your new Woo. I've had mine a year and a half and I'm still thrilled with it. Good Luck with yours and Merry Christmas to you too


----------



## BIG POPPA

One thing I noticed with my 3+ is that it changes a lot with the tubes you put in it. It is good since I have a decent assortment of tubes and more coming. The Mullard CV 2984's are great. With the RCA ECC88's, they are silky smooth. It is awesome that I can really tune the sound with tubes. I have had the experience with gear that tubes don't really make that big of difference. So the Woo is burning in nicely and it is just getting very musical. Can't wait for the tubes that are coming. Need more 6922's since I have a good collection of the 6AS7's, 6080's, A1834's, CV2984's. Know that some are the same, it's OK they all sound a little different.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slayerizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my WA6 w/PDPS last week and been doing the burn-in and the sound so far is great! I listen to mostly metal/rock and I'm very pleased with the results so far.

 Been listening to Black Sabbath remasters and some other stuff and the soundstage and the dynamics are great with this amp and I can hear the separation of instuments more with everything being more clear but at the same time with greater punch!

 Thanks to you all for this thread, read every single post on here! Merry Christmas!_

 

Welcome to the Club. I had mine since mid 2009 and enjoying every moment with it and much more with every tweak added on to the rig.


----------



## Raez

Man I would kill to have a WA6, you guys are so lucky! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Realistically speaking, is there any plan to make an economy-level amp? (AKA, Under $300)


----------



## BIG POPPA

The 3+ or 6 are the economy versions. They are hand made point to point. What less do you want?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 3+ or 6 are the economy versions. They are hand made point to point. What less do you want?_

 

Where do 6SE falls into then?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Woo Audio 6 Special Edition. It is special and priced accordingly!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woo Audio 6 Special Edition. It is special and priced accordingly!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for making me feel good.


----------



## slayerizer

Looks like for my WA6, Jack send me 2 6FD7's instead of 6DE7's and the rectifier that I got is the Electronorgtechnica 5Z4G as a substitute 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone here tried that rectifier before?

 EDIT: looks like some WA22 owners been getting this Russian rectifier too...went back to re-read some threads!


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I have my WA6SE modded swapped the original cathode plate caps, the 470uf/100v into 2 x BlackGate 220uf/ 160V NH. And that was told by takezo that the 6FD7s will work fine in the WA6SE._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have asked Jack whether the 6FD7 will damage my October delivered WA6SE. I'll post the verdict._

 

I just opened my early Nov WA6SE and it had a 100v cathode cap. I will have to mod mine when I find my soldering iron.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I have my WA6SE Maxxed with with Premium Parts and 2 x BlackGate 220uf/ 160V NH are in the case, does that means that I am safe to go with 6FD7 tubes??? The unit was in my delivered during May 2009

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my RCA 6FD7 works like a charm in my WA6SE 2 months straight, actually it is the best drive tube for my ear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 PS: newer WA6SE can use 6FD7 without any problems_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Glenn,

 Yes, I have my WA6SE modded swapped the original cathode plate caps, the 470uf/100v into 2 x BlackGate 220uf/ 160V NH. And that was told by takezo that the 6FD7s will work fine in the WA6SE.

*"actually, i meant the cathode plate cap that is one the small circuit board. jack uses
 a 470uf/100v cap there. the cathode bypass/bias cap is the 220uf/16v caps.
 anyway, mine hover around 85v when i use the 6fd7 but maybe convenants caps
 were not up to par even at 100v... it is a good idea to change it out to at least 160v
 for the 6fd7 and others. and yes, the 3% increase in current draw is what makes
 the output and power transformers a bit warmer. but it's still way inside of what jack
 told me last year when he said the output transformers will take up to 1.2A per tube
 for a total of 2.4A."*

 I hope takezo don't mind that I quote the PM here._


----------



## Seamaster

Why people worship Blackgate all over the audio community? I found them thicken the sound little too much. There are much better caps out there.


----------



## Suprfly2k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have asked Jack whether the 6FD7 will damage my October delivered WA6SE. I'll post the verdict._

 

So, I got my reply from Jack to my question:

 "No, 6FD7 is not recommended on the 6SE. Only one amp was done differently."


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I got my reply from Jack to my question:

 "No, 6FD7 is not recommended on the 6SE. Only one amp was done differently."_

 

I knew the SE wasn't compatible, but what does "Only one amp was done differently" mean??


----------



## Suprfly2k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I knew the SE wasn't compatible, but what does "Only one amp was done differently" mean??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, Jack's email replies can sometimes be a bit...cryptic.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprfly2k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, Jack's email replies can sometimes be a bit...cryptic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

At least you got a response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The last question I asked him was never answered. Seems to me that he's too busy these days to answer all his email.


----------



## Gibertus Jeunus

Please leave him alone, he has to finish my WA6SE !

 about Jack's reply, he may had in mind one 6se that has been modded to be compatible, the only one built that way.


----------



## K_19

Finally, the Sophia Princess 274B I ordered two weeks ago has arrived at my house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait until I am done work so I can test the baby out... hopefully it'll bring about good changes even on my stock WA6; I haven't been too thrilled with my two rectifiers so far, the stock Sovtek (not refined enough and too coloured) and the NU 5U4G (nice flat sound, but... a little TOO boring and too polite in the bottom end).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally, the Sophia Princess 274B I ordered two weeks ago has arrived at my house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait until I am done work so I can test the baby out... hopefully it'll bring about good changes even on my stock WA6; I haven't been too thrilled with my two rectifiers so far, the stock Sovtek (not refined enough and too coloured) and the NU 5U4G (nice flat sound, but... a little TOO boring and too polite in the bottom end)._

 

It might sound a bit boomy in the bass for the first 24 hours, but it improves a lot in the first day and it's completely burned-in by 80 hours.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might sound a bit boomy in the bass for the first 24 hours, but it improves a lot in the first day and it's completely burned-in by 80 hours._

 

Thanks for the heads up. I may have to avoid pairing this up with the HD650 for the time being then.


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least you got a response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The last question I asked him was never answered. Seems to me that he's too busy these days to answer all his email._

 

Glenn, was that in connection with the 6sn7 adaptors ?

 Perhaps I missed it, but I havent seen any pics of these adaptors in this thread.

 Could anyone who has bought a pair of these adaptors care to post a pic?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glenn, was that in connection with the 6sn7 adaptors ?

 Perhaps I missed it, but I havent seen any pics of these adaptors in this thread.

 Could anyone who has bought a pair of these adaptors care to post a pic?_

 

Wow you have a good memory! Yes it was about the adapters Jack was selling. I never heard anything from him


----------



## K_19

Well, after a whole night of listening with WA6 + Sophia Princess, all I have to say in short, is...

 - OMG Soundstage!
 - OMG Separation!

 With both my K701 and HD650, I think the Princess is worth its value alone purely for these two things... I never realized how compact and congested the Sovtek and NU tubes before trying out the princess... but they truly do pale in comparison. Princess is pretty much a new experience in immersive soundstage (not only in wideness, but in its 3D depth) and the separation of instruments and notes is fantastic. The mids that simply refused to come out with NU and Sovtek came out in full with the Princess, without sacrificing the Highs and lows in the process. There was no artificial bump in midbass or screecy highs like the Sovteks, yet did not sound totally boring like the NU tube did.

 So yes, in all, Sophia made a BIG difference even on my stock, plain Jane WA6. Very happy with the purchase overall. Now, I just hope that it lasts me a while (I did read some negative things concerning its durability in the long run).


----------



## tosehee

Welcome to the club, and I do hope that your Princess lasts long as I am eying this myself for my WA22.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, after a whole night of listening with WA6 + Sophia Princess, all I have to say in short, is...

 - OMG Soundstage!
 - OMG Separation!

 With both my K701 and HD650, I think the Princess is worth its value alone purely for these two things... I never realized how compact and congested the Sovtek and NU tubes before trying out the princess... but they truly do pale in comparison. Princess is pretty much a new experience in immersive soundstage (not only in wideness, but in its 3D depth) and the separation of instruments and notes is fantastic. The mids that simply refused to come out with NU and Sovtek came out in full with the Princess, without sacrificing the Highs and lows in the process. There was no artificial bump in midbass or screecy highs like the Sovteks, yet did not sound totally boring like the NU tube did.

 So yes, in all, Sophia made a BIG difference even on my stock, plain Jane WA6. Very happy with the purchase overall. Now, I just hope that it lasts me a while (I did read some negative things concerning its durability in the long run)._


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club, and I do hope that your Princess lasts long as I am eying this myself for my WA22._

 

So far 6F8G sound the best, but they hum like crazy ONLY with Sophia Princess 274B. If you plan to use 6F8G, forget the princess.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow you have a good memory! Yes it was about the adapters Jack was selling. I never heard anything from him_

 

Hey Glenn, I've asked the price about the 6SN7 adapters weeks ago and got replied from Jack within some days later with quote.

*"We do have few pairs of 6DE7 to 6SN7 and 6DN7 adaptors in stock. These were custom made some times ago. It costs $40 a pair + $13 shipping"*


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club, and I do hope that your Princess lasts long as I am eying this myself for my WA22._

 


 Hi tosehee, I have my SP274B in use with 800hrs mark by now and I do hope it will last longer also.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far 6F8G sound the best, but they hum like crazy ONLY with Sophia Princess 274B. If you plan to use 6F8G, forget the princess.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I am planning on Mazda + Sophia..

 EDIT: My WA22 is shipping in 2 weeks now.. Wow. I can't believe that I waited this long in patience.. Just a few more weeks to go.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am not planning to roll any tubes for now as I am rather satisfied with the current Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 & Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B. For new year celebration, I decided to pamper the WA6SE with a HiFi Tuning Slow 2A small Fuse. Let wait and hear the difference, which I am keeping my fingers crossed... BTW, anyone care to share which direction the fuse be facing...?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am planning on Mazda + Sophia..

 EDIT: My WA22 is shipping in 2 weeks now.. Wow. I can't believe that I waited this long in patience.. Just a few more weeks to go._

 

What out that combo you try to use with HD800, may sound very harsh, and more SS than tube IMHO


----------



## BIG POPPA

With the fuses, one way will sound nice, one way will sound crummy. Hi-Fi tuning are OK, The Silver one is the better one. The IsoClean is the most neutral and Musical and the Furutech is the smoothest one. Isoclean is still King in my book.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the fuses, one way will sound nice, one way will sound crummy. Hi-Fi tuning are OK, The Silver one is the better one. The IsoClean is the most neutral and Musical and the Furutech is the smoothest one. Isoclean is still King in my book._

 

Thanks for the feedback... Which way will sound nice then, mind sharing?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Awwwwww, you going make me stop my rig and look? I will in a bit. I will slap the Furutech in. Should sounda little more silky smooth.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awwwwww, you going make me stop my rig and look? I will in a bit. I will slap the Furutech in. Should sounda little more silky smooth._

 

Thanks and i don't need the inspection to be done right right away. Do it when the the plug is off the wall socket since the fuse will only be arriving in next seven days.... Appreciates.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just let me know. Slapped the Furutech in. Silky smooth, Or is that the GEC?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awwwwww, you going make me stop my rig and look? I will in a bit. I will slap the Furutech in. Should sounda little more silky smooth._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just let me know. Slapped the Furutech in. Silky smooth, Or is that the GEC?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you in advance. Please point me to the right direction of how the fuse is to be position when you are available to accommodate my request. Best...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What out that combo you try to use with HD800, may sound very harsh, and more SS than tube IMHO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I failed to understand your comment here..


----------



## Henerenry

WOOHOO, my WA2 is finally delivered!

 Too bad I'm not at home to listen to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Big thanks to my lovely girlfriend for the bday present.


----------



## K_19

Just wanted to step in and say and damn, you know what, if I hadn't put the Princess on my WA6 I wouldn't have thought that the amp was as good (or even worth my upgrade from EF1 for that matter) as I feel it is right now. IMO it pretty much has transformed how all three of my main headphones sounded compared to my old Sovtek and GU tube. No way I can EVER go back to those two tubes now. I never thought that the tube can bring about THAT much difference in an amp, but it really has for my WA6... pretty crazy... and this also happened to be the biggest noticeable burn-in experience I've ever had, it has transformed really significantly over the last 20 hours or so, more noticeably than any other burn in I've had with other tubes or headphones. The top end shimmer, separation, bass impact/control and soundstage has all together in the most perfect way possible.

 It's really hard for me to imagine how much better (if at all) the EMU or any other NOS tube would be!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I failed to understand your comment here.._

 

HD800 naturally sound bright. 6FQ7 Mazda sound very dynamic, with great impact and detail, but also sound bright compare to 6SN7 and 6F8G. Sophia sound on the dynamic side Vs. musical, also sound semi-bright. Then you have the idea.

 Most Woo owner loves Sophia in their amps, because woo amps sound on the edge for be too lush. Most people feel get kicked in the pants with Sophia is help to the sound.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HD800 naturally sound bright. 6FQ7 Mazda sound very dynamic, with great impact and detail, but also sound bright compare to 6SN7 and 6F8G. Sophia sound on the dynamic side Vs. musical, also sound semi-bright. Then you have the idea._

 

Ahh. I got you now.

 Hrm. I thought Princess sounds warm, or so I read. But I could be wrong as I didn't experience it myself.

 What combo do you recommend with Mazda? Would EML do me a justice? I don't like too neutral/SS kinda sound.


----------



## Seamaster

Sophia is warmer than GZ34 that for sure (not sure about metal base). If you already have Sophia, just give it a shot then.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I was just browsing the Woo website and noticed that the PDPS appears to have been made standard on the WA6 now. The price has gone up $35 and the PDPS upgrade option is now gone, replaced by a bullet noting it on the standard features list. Kudos to Jack for that, since he basically cut the cost of getting the PDPS in half for new buyers.

 I've decided I'll be one of them shortly. I cannot afford the WA6-SE, but I think I'll be quite happy with the regular WA6 and plan to order one in the near future. I can't seem to stop looking at what tubes I want to buy in the meantime.....


----------



## jjinh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just browsing the Woo website and noticed that the PDPS appears to have been made standard on the WA6 now. The price has gone up $35 and the PDPS upgrade option is now gone, replaced by a bullet noting it on the standard features list. Kudos to Jack for that, since he basically cut the cost of getting the PDPS in half for new buyers._

 

I thought the old price was 550? which means there isnt a discount at all...


----------



## h.rav

^ The old price was $585.


----------



## myk7000

I was wondering if the 2nd input on the wa6se can be used as a loop out. I remember someone mentioning it once. Can it work that way by chance?


----------



## jjinh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ The old price was $585. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ok, my bad. Nice to see them absorbing some of the upgrade price then!


----------



## Gberg

wow... just got the WA6 (with some upgrades). It's been 10 hours of burn-in.
 I'm listening off and on, and let's just say I'm very impressed!

 The bass obviously needs to tighten up, but the high-end is truly remarkable. Well, naturally everything is better with this amp, as my last one wasn't near it in quality.


----------



## sampson_smith

Also just got a WA6, off of a local Head-fi'er. I love it. Can't stop staring at it. Most nights I stay up way too late, listening to it. Is this normal? My day job is starting to suffer! What's a fiend to do, Jack Wu?


----------



## Seamaster

How many times people fall in sleep with their amp on, and get up 2 am in the morning go to bed? I do that a lot now days.


----------



## sampson_smith

Yup... that's exactly what has been going on. On that note, with no music coming though the WA6, is it safe to leave it on overnight, apart from the "leaving the hot tubes unattended" warning?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it safe to leave it on overnight, apart from the "leaving the hot tubes unattended" warning?_

 

Woo recommends not leaving the amp running for longer than 8hrs at a time - so provided you're not sleeping in, then yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Alas, I've had to sell off my WA6SE and so I'm no longer really a part of the Woo Owner's thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to say though, if I had known beforehand how excellent the 6FD7 tubes were and that my 6SE would be incompatible with them, I would have bought a regular WA6 instead.

 EML 5U4G + Sylvania 6FD7s were a winning combo.


----------



## Gberg

do you think the sophia princess along with sylvania 6FD7 would work well also?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you think the sophia princess along with sylvania 6FD7 would work well also?_

 

Yes, although you'd get slightly less sense of air and treble sparkle with the Sophia.


----------



## Gberg

k one more question,
 does the brand have importance? I can't seem to find a place to get those tubes.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also just got a WA6, off of a local Head-fi'er. I love it. Can't stop staring at it. Most nights I stay up way too late, listening to it. Is this normal? My day job is starting to suffer! What's a fiend to do, Jack Wu? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 That is really amazing mate, I have been thinking of getting one.

 Any upgrades on the one you got.

 Any impressions on comparison with your gilmore lite.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_k one more question,
 does the brand have importance? I can't seem to find a place to get those tubes._

 

Yes, it does. Jack Wu should be able to provide them for you, or if he's out of stock try vacuumtubes.net (Takezo recommended this seller to me, and they're where I got my set of Sylvania 6FD7s from).


----------



## DannagE

Hi again, finally got my WA6 after it shipped on the 27th December. Its been a long wait!

 I ordered the upgraded tubes at the same time from Jack. I can obviously tell which is the Sophia, but the other ones I'm clueless about.

 On the site it says "1 matched pair 6DE7". I've recieved 2 Raytheon tubes in boxes with 6DE7 printed on them but the 6 had had a B written over it in red biro. These are fairly small tubes. The other 2 were in bubble wrap and are 'used' (read vintage) and have 6FD7 USA on them.

 Can anyone shed any light onto which is what and which is best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks


----------



## DannagE

Oh I can answer my own question now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wow these 6FD7 NOS tubes are much nicer, happy!


----------



## tosehee

BTW, I just got a response from Jack that Woo Audio DAC is pushed back due to current orders stacking up.


----------



## gt67

I have been told that mine will be shipped this week so I hope it is

 Please


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gt67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been told that mine will be shipped this week so I hope it is

 Please_

 

When were you told?


----------



## mikeymad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DannagE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I can answer my own question now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wow these 6FD7 NOS tubes are much nicer, happy!_

 

you took the only advice anyone can give... listen to them.. 

 enjoy...

 Cheers,


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is really amazing mate, I have been thinking of getting one.

 Any upgrades on the one you got.

 Any impressions on comparison with your gilmore lite._

 

Thanks, man! You're not Jack Wu, but I'll take your advice, anyway! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have no upgrades yet, but very much want the PDPS and anything else that is relatively affordable. Does anyone know what it now costs to have the PDPS done, now that it is standard and essentially half the price with new rigs? I hope Wu still does it... I sent an email 3-4 days ago, but have not heard back. Any other factory mod's that you guys can recommend for me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love the WA6 and the GLite + DPS nearly equally. The GLite is not my own but on loan for an extended period, I hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I use the 6FD7's ("jumbo" with side-getter; no brand to be seen) with a 5U4G "Fleetwood" transformer tube (which is a bit larger than the stock Sovtek; sans mesh). I was hoping to have a warmer tube one and a brighter, more revealing SS amp setup. I figure that will allow the greatest amount of headphone combinations as I eventually can afford and accumulate them. I AM partial to the WA6's looks and build. Freakin' heavy. Really... can't stop staring at it!


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, it does. Jack Wu should be able to provide them for you, or if he's out of stock try vacuumtubes.net (Takezo recommended this seller to me, and they're where I got my set of Sylvania 6FD7s from)._

 

The 6FD7's were from Woo Audio, apparently, so I guess that I can assume that they are Sylvanias. The side-getter is a little dark, but still reflective. I have heard that as the getter contacts air, it goes from silvery to dark. This is with the barium variety, but there are others. I assume that the degree of "silveriness" varies, so it's hard to tell if I should be worried. The amp sound great, as best I can tell.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, man! You're not Jack Wu, but I'll take your advice, anyway! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have no upgrades yet, but very much want the PDPS and anything else that is relatively affordable. Does anyone know what it now costs to have the PDPS done, now that it is standard and essentially half the price with new rigs? I hope Wu still does it... I sent an email 3-4 days ago, but have not heard back. Any other factory mod's that you guys can recommend for me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love the WA6 and the GLite + DPS nearly equally. The GLite is not my own but on loan for an extended period, I hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I use the 6FD7's ("jumbo" with side-getter; no brand to be seen) with a 5U4G "Fleetwood" transformer tube (which is a bit larger than the stock Sovtek; sans mesh). I was hoping to have a warmer tube one and a brighter, more revealing SS amp setup. I figure that will allow the greatest amount of headphone combinations as I eventually can afford and accumulate them. I AM partial to the WA6's looks and build. Freakin' heavy. Really... can't stop staring at it!_

 

I think if your WA6 is not maxed it will be about $65 + shipping to send it in for the mod. Mine was the first one he did for a WA6 in May 2008, and was $230 shipped because mine was maxed and it uses Blackgates and Vcaps - it was still something new they had just started doing, and after a while the prices started to drop on the mod.


----------



## sampson_smith

Thanks, Larry! I guess that means I should be grateful that the mod will cost me less than $100. Sounds good. I hope it makes a significant difference.

 I keep reading about maxed-out WA6's in the FS forums, where, apart from the obv. Sophia tube, there is talk of upgraded "feet" and other odd tweaks. Is there anything else that's practical that I should likely invest in? Sorry for all the Q's. I know my fair shake about cans, but tube amps are new to me. I had a LD 1+ for a while, but never really researched the physics, mechanics and concepts about ways to improve it (apart from tube rolling).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The maxed had upgraded caps that slightly improve the transparency of the amp, but the PDPS and Sophia are far more important to do. I have the std volume control and it works great with IEM and full size cans, so I am not sorry that I don't have the DACT stepped attenuator. I did do the upgraded feet later, but can't say it affects the sound since I didn't have microphonics issues before.


----------



## jamato8

I don't think feet are so important with a headphone amp. You don't have the vibrations and sound waves to contend with like in a speaker system. 

 The PDPS modification for the 6 is the most important change you can make and takes the amp, IMO, to a different level and for the low cost I don't know why it isn't stock. I use the GoldPoint attenuator, that is better than the DACT but again, the PDPS is the most noticeable upgrade and by far, the most bang for the almighty buck.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think feet are so important with a headphone amp. You don't have the vibrations and sound waves to contend with like in a speaker system. 

 The PDPS modification for the 6 is the most important change you can make and takes the amp, IMO, to a different level and for the low cost I don't know why it isn't stock. I use the GoldPoint attenuator, that is better than the DACT but again, the PDPS is the most noticeable upgrade and by far, the most bang for the almighty buck._

 

The PDPS is now standard. The price went up from $585 to $620. Only $35 more for a significant improvement in SQ


----------



## jamato8

I am glad to know that. I know they were waiting to change over the chassis after they ran out of the pre PDPS. As it should be then with the PDPS. :^) Everyone can join in the joy.

 I have to admit there is some satisfaction with that.


----------



## atbglenn

John, what changes did they make to the chassis?


----------



## jamato8

They made it so that the PDPS was easily incorporated and didn't require any modifications. It became part of the structure. When I originally designed the PDPS the 6 was not set up for it so they had to use a plate to hold the resistors and cap but with a new run of the chassis everything could become an integral part.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They made it so that the PDPS was easily incorporated and didn't require any modifications. It became part of the structure. When I originally designed the PDPS the 6 was not set up for it so they had to use a plate to hold the resistors and cap but with a new run of the chassis everything could become an integral part._

 

So instead of looking like this, the extra cap and resistor are mounted on the chassis. I'm assuming Jack just modified the layout so they would fit.


----------



## gt67

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When were you told?_

 

yesterday and confirmed by email today that it will be sent out tomorrow


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I just got a response from Jack that Woo Audio DAC is pushed back due to current orders stacking up._

 

Woo Audio DAC? Is that a new product? Don't see one on their website...


----------



## calloyaddy

I just received my WA6 back from Jack after sending it in to have the PDPS added. Total cost minus shipping was $130.00, but mine has the (2) V-Caps and (4+4) Blackgates. 

 I can't be sure, but my PDPS looks a bit different from other folks' (might add a pic soon). The two Dale resistors are soldered together on a plate then joined to a smaller looking cap that sits just behind the rectifier (smaller than what I've seen in other models: not sure offhand of the cap value). It doesn't look like it's a Blackgate either. Maybe the same level as the stock Rubycon he uses? I'm a bit befuddled, but perhaps it doesn't matter whether Blackgates are used for this particular mod? I'd sort of assumed he'd use a B'gate, but maybe he's not doing that anymore regardless of what's already in the amp. Sounds amazing regardless. Still, anyone have any ideas on why/how the implementation has changed? I'll ask him of course, just wondering if anyone has any theories in the interim : )


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Johnny Moondog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woo Audio DAC? Is that a new product? Don't see one on their website..._

 

Working prototype.


----------



## sampson_smith

Thanks for all the info. on upgrades, guys! I am very happy to have heard the stock amp and now regret to report that my roommate is getting rid of it! That was, like, a week of hi-fi, and now he's through. (Had a slight argument about mental burn-in with him last night. Not having any of that!) Regardless, when I have the $$$, I'm all in for a WA6 of my own.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *calloyaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my WA6 back from Jack after sending it in to have the PDPS added. Total cost minus shipping was $130.00, but mine has the (2) V-Caps and (4+4) Blackgates. 

 I can't be sure, but my PDPS looks a bit different from other folks' (might add a pic soon). The two Dale resistors are soldered together on a plate then joined to a smaller looking cap that sits just behind the rectifier (smaller than what I've seen in other models: not sure offhand of the cap value). It doesn't look like it's a Blackgate either. Maybe the same level as the stock Rubycon he uses? I'm a bit befuddled, but perhaps it doesn't matter whether Blackgates are used for this particular mod? I'd sort of assumed he'd use a B'gate, but maybe he's not doing that anymore regardless of what's already in the amp. Sounds amazing regardless. Still, anyone have any ideas on why/how the implementation has changed? I'll ask him of course, just wondering if anyone has any theories in the interim : )_

 

I would need an image. The first cap after the rectifier should be around 12uf or 15uf or so and whatever they used should be fine.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So instead of looking like this, the extra cap and resistor are mounted on the chassis. I'm assuming Jack just modified the layout so they would fit.




_

 

A Woo Audio amp from any angle is beau-ti-ful!


----------



## amjr

Hello!

 I'm planning to order WooAudio 2 but I'm wondering should I order "maxed out" version. So I'm not yet real WA owner - just getting there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would like to get some opinions on the upgrades...

 - Blackgate capacitor-upgrade? What's your experience?

 - Attenuator upgrade and teflon mounting for tubes. Increased usability is mainly the reason I guess?

 - The main thing - tube upgrades. Have you compared default-tubes with upgraded ones? How's the difference?


 WooAudio 2 would be driving my HD-650 headphones and input signal is coming from iMac via cambridge audio's dacmagic DAC (optical cable in order to isolate computer electrically from audio stuff).


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amjr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello!

 I'm planning to order WooAudio 2 but I'm wondering should I order "maxed out" version. So I'm not yet real WA owner - just getting there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would like to get some opinions on the upgrades...

 - Blackgate capacitor-upgrade? What's your experience?

 - Attenuator upgrade and teflon mounting for tubes. Increased usability is mainly the reason I guess?

 - The main thing - tube upgrades. Have you compared default-tubes with upgraded ones? How's the difference?


 WooAudio 2 would be driving my HD-650 headphones and input signal is coming from iMac via cambridge audio's dacmagic DAC (optical cable in order to isolate computer electrically from audio stuff)._

 


 Welcome amjr...2nd post and already swimming with the big (tube) boys...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a maxxed WA2 (no stepped attenuator). I can't say what the difference would be versus stock because I never heard the complete stock one.

 In reference to the tubes. Yes, I have compared the stock ones with upgraded ones. I ran the stock for a while and the sound is great. I have a couple of other amps that use the same power tubes, so have rolled plenty of those. I have about 4 pairs of the 6DJ8/6922 that I also roll and have stuck with Tungsram EZ80 rectifier.
 I also have it running with a DacMagic...Great combo. You will be very satisfied...Solid and beautiful amp, 4 inputs, 1 pre-out, great service from Jack and family...Drives any 'phone I throw at it with authority...Total package...

 Welcome to the club....


----------



## punkaroo

I just bought sampson_smith's WA6! I'm psyched! 

 Does anyone know if the Woo warranty is transferable? 

 Also, is it worth shipping it back to Jack for the PDPS upgrade? (I'll be using it with a pair of HF-2s)


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

A HiFi Tuning is in my Maxxed WA6SE. Worth the penny spent.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A HiFi Tuning is in my Maxxed WA6SE. Worth the penny spent._

 

I have Hi-Fi Tuning Silver stars coming for my amp and CDP


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought sampson_smith's WA6! I'm psyched! 

 Does anyone know if the Woo warranty is transferable? 

 Also, is it worth shipping it back to Jack for the PDPS upgrade? (I'll be using it with a pair of HF-2s)_

 

From my memory, the warranty is transferable. I asked that question couple years ago so it may change. A simple email to Jack will get you the answer.

 As far as PDPS upgrade, it is worth every pennies.


----------



## jamato8

The PDPS is a must. It makes the Woo 6 a totally different amp, in the best of ways.


----------



## ygm

Has anyone communicated with Jack directly in the last week or so?


----------



## K_19

He got back to me through email on Monday concerning the operation of the WA6 on startup, and also posted here on Head-fi for further clarification. So he's definitely around.


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought sampson_smith's WA6! I'm psyched! 

 Does anyone know if the Woo warranty is transferable? 

 Also, is it worth shipping it back to Jack for the PDPS upgrade? (I'll be using it with a pair of HF-2s)_

 

Thanks, punkaroo! My roommate is glad to get that off his hands, as much as he was super stoked to have it about a week ago. Fickle fiend... I mean, _friend_. I'll miss it! I'm sure I clocked more time on it than him. Will certainly have to buy one for myself in the future, when I can afford it. It's a sweet machine, in performance _and_ appearance.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought sampson_smith's WA6! I'm psyched! 

 Does anyone know if the Woo warranty is transferable? 

 Also, is it worth shipping it back to Jack for the PDPS upgrade? (I'll be using it with a pair of HF-2s)_

 

Glad that you finally got your hands on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I like my stock configuration enough as it is right now to not be bothered by the hassle of sending it back to Woo _just_ for the upgrade... but should it have any sort of problems down the road I do plan to send it back for the PDPS upgrade at that time. So see how you like things as stock first.

 And I do STRONGLY suggest you invest in a Sophia Princess or Emission Labs 274B tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... expensive, yes, but they do change the SQ significantly enough to justify the price IMO. Again, you may like the stock tube enough, but at least with tubes you won't have to send the amp back to get that upgrade in sound.


----------



## ygm

*Jack - if you read this thread, please check your junk mail folder. Several people have attempted to contact you without success.*


----------



## BIG POPPA

The Hi-Fi Tuning fuses are better than stock. I have both gold and silver. Really like the smoothness of the Furutech Rhodium fuse. The Isoclean is the most neutral and musical. To me it is still the best. I have tried these fuses in a few tube amps.


----------



## agile_one

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *myk7000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if the 2nd input on the wa6se can be used as a loop out. I remember someone mentioning it once. Can it work that way by chance?_

 

No. The two inputs are selectable by the input switch. When one is selected, the other is dead ended. It would be a simple mod to take the switch out of the circuit, and just "jump" the two inputs to a loop. Of course, one would no longer be an input to the amp then.

 A simpler solution is a high quality Y connecter like this one from Vampire Wire.


----------



## calloyaddy

Just one more voice saying that the PDPS is worth it. Finally had some listening time today, and the difference is quite noticeable. Much more detail and transparency. Soundstage sounds larger. Was listening to Aldo Ciccolini play Satie, and I can hear him breathing between notes. Sounds like someone else is in the room with him walking around as well. Amazing. I've never heard a room so clearly before. Do it : )


----------



## punkaroo

calloyaddy, your post put me over the edge. I'm gonna do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I won't do so right away, as I'm still curious to hear the difference before and after.

 Woo for WOO!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

With my maxed WA6 I had to burn-in the amp again for the new PDPS Blackgates.


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my maxed WA6 I had to burn-in the amp again for the new PDPS Blackgates._

 

Are you saying it sounded worse when you got it back, or it took burn in to hear the benefits.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you saying it sounded worse when you got it back, or it took burn in to hear the benefits._

 

Blackgates need painfully long burn-in time. Also take long time to warm too. New Blackgates sound overly warm and thick.

 " they also seem to have a warm fuzzy sort of sound that can be really pleasing (though I have heard this is unique to the N series.) "


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you saying it sounded worse when you got it back, or it took burn in to hear the benefits._

 

I can't say that it sounded worse, but it took a bit more burn-in to hear the benefits.


----------



## BIG POPPA

My blackgates took at least 3 weeks to start to stabilize. I new what I was getting into. It is OK now, they are not done burning in but a little more predictable


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am burning in the HiFi Tuning Fuse in the WA6SE...


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am burning in the HiFi Tuning Fuse in the WA6SE..._

 

Does it make a subtle change or a WOW? I'm looking at it but not sure I can justify $30 for a fuse.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Indeed the $29.95 from VH Audio is justifiable tweak.... Check it out since it cost lesser than tube rolling..


----------



## jc9394

Humm, I may just get one. Do you know the size? I'm at work and can't access it.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed the $24.95 from VH Audio is justifiable tweak.... Check it out since it cost lesser than tube rolling.._

 

Placebo affect possibly? I have a hard time believing a line fuse can make any difference.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed the $24.95 from VH Audio is justifiable tweak.... Check it out since it cost lesser than tube rolling.._

 

Is it a special price? I only see 29.95


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Placebo affect possibly? I have a hard time believing a line fine can make any difference._

 

Maybe, but I do notice a better power cable (not the crazy expensive one, I use a heavy duty Cisco one) makes a subtle change over cheap computer one.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it a special price? I only see 29.95_

 

My apologies, it was a typo. Corrected $29.95. I can hear difference when positioning the fuse to the desire orientation.


----------



## BIG POPPA

The Hi-fi tuning fuses need warming up, not burn in. It takes about 20 minutes or so to get them to life. They are a little thick until you warm them up. The Furutech and Isoclean do not need warming up.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Hi-fi tuning fuses need warming up, not burn in. It takes about 20 minutes or so to get them to life. They are a little thick until you warm them up. The Furutech and Isoclean do not need warming up._

 

Crap, you should told us that. If I knew they need 20min to warm up, I would not bought them.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Those fuses are cryo'd, that may have something to do with it


----------



## sampson_smith

*Groan*


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Groan*_

 

x2


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My apologies, it was a typo. Corrected $29.95. I can hear difference when positioning the fuse to the desire orientation._

 

"For best performance, the HiFi Tuning fuses should be installed one way, listened to, and then reversed the other way to determine best sonic orientation."

 The last time I checked, fuses do not have an orientation. That's like reversing a hose and expecting the water to be of better quality.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sure, I guess I can understand why people want expensive power conditioners and blah blah blah... but a fuse? This is too much. Unless the fuse has some type of filter in it...


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Hmm, I've had a wa2 for a few months now and just noticed this thread. I need some new tubes really bad! Currently only have the 6as7 non-coke bottle tubes; have some other tubes that seems to be bad


----------



## BIG POPPA

Cheap fuses are not directional. Buy an Isoclean, hi-fi tuning, and some other audio grade fuses you will see and hear that the direction matters.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheap fuses are not directional. Buy an Isoclean, hi-fi tuning, and some other audio grade fuses you will see and hear that the direction matters._

 

Why am I getting flashbacks of patrick82?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Hi Covenant, have you tried any audio grade fuses? Can't knock it until you try it? I have 4 of them. Have had them for a while. It is a cheap tweak compared to the GEC, Bendix, And Mullard tubes I recently purchased.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Covenant, have you tried any audio grade fuses? Can't knock it until you try it? I have 4 of them. Have had them for a while. It is a cheap tweak compared to the GEC, Bendix, And Mullard tubes I recently purchased._

 

I have actually, a Xindak silver fuse that came with my old Eastsound CD-E5. I didn't notice any difference.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Xindak makes fuses? Where can I buy one? Hopefully CONUS somewhere? Something new to check out.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xindak makes fuses? Where can I buy one? Hopefully CONUS somewhere? Something new to check out._

 

Silver Fuse

 No idea where to buy one from, as Cattylink threw mine in as a bonus with my cdp. I'm highly skeptical as to any actual benefit that can be obtained from a fuse, however.


----------



## immtbiker

Not sure if I believe in the fuse theory (although I'm a proponent or wire and burn-in).
 Never really thought about it, except for a story in Stereophile 2 summers ago.

 The key differences between a fuse and a pot, is that a fuse deals directly with input power whether it be AC or DC, but with a pot, the entire signal has to pass through it. A volume switch pot could be the cause of a high priced pre-amp, to degrade it's output.
 A fuse would be more like dirty power or sloppy tranny output.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A fuse would be more like dirty power or sloppy tranny output._

 

Which then goes straight to the regulator, and thus should have minimal effect, provided the rectifier is doing it's job properly.

 I ran into the same sort of thing when I was experimenting with power conditioning. It had an audible effect with very cheap amps that had poor regulators, but anything decent (such as my old M^3 with a Jung super regulator), I couldn't detect the difference.


----------



## Seamaster

Ok guys, let your ears make the call. I ordered Hi-Fi tuning silver star. I will find out soon on this. But from what I study so far, fuse do make difference.


----------



## BIG POPPA

The silver star I like better than the gold. I have it in at the moment. Swapped fuses just to let OutdoorXplorer know which direction I had the fuse.


----------



## wink

I refuse to believe this.
 Why not just replace the fuse with a piece of cryo'd OFC copper conductor.
 About 37/083 would do it...!!!!


----------



## Henerenry

Ok, I've had about 8 hours with my wa2 now. Its fully upgraded except for teflon tube sockets.

 I'm not using the upgraded tubes at the moment.

 Impressions thus far are mixed.

 Ms-pro (bowls/jumbo pads)
 Being my first tube amp, I can immediately hear the colouration in the ms-pro, vs without the amp. It sounds more "effortless," but, its definately different, it is most evident in the vocals, I don't know whether or not I "like" the sound yet. 

 Detail and seperation seem improved it and the increase in bass adds body to the sound. It has also removed the metalic harsheness that I attribute to the STX.

 Soundstage seems to have widened and become deeper. I'm not sure how much of this is due to the jumbo pads or the amp itself. Positioning is still "not the best" but I attribute that to the can itself.


 DT880 (250)
 Wow, the improvement in this can is much more pronounced. Versus the headphone out on the STX there is no comparison. Straight out of the STX the 880 gets basically no head time. The sound to me is awful. Its tinny and thin, it lacks in all departments, resolution is still there though... although its portrayal is poor.

 With the amp, everything improves, lots of body, that nice "lush" midrange. Detail is improved though this is probably further highlighted by the great improvement in seperation. Bass is amazing (almost too much at first!), it adds so much body and weight to the sound.

 I cant sense the colouration that I can with the ms-pro, perhaps because the improvement is so great. Comparing it to my home reciever's headphone out, its "close." However, I'd say bass is better, it seems to have better seperation which gives the sensation that it extends higher. BUT the biggest difference between this and my home reciever is the lack of noise in the wa2. Its almost dead silent.

 Other notes:

 I plan to put a couple of weeks on the stock driver tubes before I change them. This is so I can get used to the "tube" sound, it will give me a greater reference point and appreciation for any change to the tube combo I may make later, it will also help burn in the caps....

 Next on the list is a new dac.

 Conclusions for now:

 I'm very happy with the performance of the amp, and they make my dt880 my favourite can, where as they used to get no headtime compared to my ms-pro.

 The performance with the ms-pro has me undecided, I can't determine whether or not I like the different tonality in the vocal range, though I am glad that it has removed the overly metalic and harsh tone running from the stx output.

 I'm very happy so far, and hopefully it just improves from here. Thanks to my wonderful girlfriend for buying me such a wonderful peice of equipment.


----------



## amjr

While waiting my amp I'm spending my time by making interconnect-cables. (It's been a while so it's refreshing to dig up my old soldering tools and actually create something instead of writing code in work)

 Should I just contact Jack about electrical values (capacitance, impedance) or has someone done any research already? Oh and the cables would sit between line-level output and line-input on WA2.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amjr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While waiting my amp I'm spending my time by making interconnect-cables. (It's been a while so it's refreshing to dig up my old soldering tools and actually create something instead of writing code in work)

 Should I just contact Jack about electrical values (capacitance, impedance) or has someone done any research already? Oh and the cables would sit between line-level output and line-input on WA2._

 

So what is your job,and how is it that you have soldering experience.Would you make some cables.


 You must be a DYI er.


----------



## HeatFan12

Congrats Henerenry.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote:


 I plan to put a couple of weeks on the stock driver tubes before I change them. This is so I can get used to the "tube" sound, it will give me a greater reference point and appreciation for any change to the tube combo I may make later, it will also help burn in the caps.... 
 

Great idea...I had upgraded tubes (all 3 sets) ready, but did exactly this to get used to the stock sound. Those BGs take forever, but you will notice the sound opening up as time rolls along....


----------



## ygm

I just got a matched pair of tubes off ebay and one of them has a piece of glass/glue about 1/16' by 1/4' sliding around inside the tube. Is it safe to plug in to the amp?

 Apologies if this is off topic. I couldnt find an appropriate thread and I do have a Woo amp on order =)


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a matched pair of tubes off ebay and one of them has a piece of glass/glue about 1/16' by 1/4' sliding around inside the tube. Is it safe to plug in to the amp?

 Apologies if this is off topic. I couldnt find an appropriate thread and I do have a Woo amp on order =)_

 

Do you have tube tester? What kind tube is it? The base is lose? Any disconnected wire inside? 

 I have some tubes like that, they always tested good, sound just fine.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have tube tester? What kind tube is it? The base is lose? Any disconnected wire inside? 

 I have some tubes like that, they always tested good, sound just fine._

 

Its a Raytheon vt-231 (thats is part of an almost exactly matched pair).

 Base is strong. 

 No tube tester - but I'm thinking of getting one considering the number of tubes I've now acquired.


----------



## the_equalizer

Oh my! This has got to be one of the most absurd combos ever... I just got my hands on a pair of Koss KSC35 and I'm currently listening to Yes' "Relayer" through my WA6 and my new pair of 'phones. 

 Man, I'm enjoying it *so* much! Just a tad boomy on the bass and slightly congested in the complex passages, but with a rich, punchy sound; less muffled highs than my portapros and with a very nice soundstage ! I'm using the stock Russian rectifier with a pair of RCA 6DE7 tubes.

 These $28.00 USD babies (got them used) seriously rival my SR-80i + WA6 combo; in fact I think I like them more than the SR-80i's. Though they loose in soundstage and bass definition to my K701's and loose in treble and midrange smoothness to my SR-225's, it's just astounding how they sound for how little they cost.

 So, does anyone else out there uses his/her WA with less than $50 USD 'phones and enjoys it? 

 cheers!


----------



## punkaroo

Got my WA6 today! Man, I had no idea how HUGE and HEAVY this amp was! It's beautiful!

 It's totally stock; I'll have to double check which tubes I plugged into it. However...I have the volume at nearly 12 o'clock...is this amp really that quiet to have to blast it? Does it need to be burned in more?


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my WA6 today! Man, I had no idea how HUGE and HEAVY this amp was! It's beautiful!

 It's totally stock; I'll have to double check which tubes I plugged into it. However...I have the volume at nearly 12 o'clock...is this amp really that quiet to have to blast it? Does it need to be burned in more?_

 

i think thats normal for the 6 from what i heard. i wish i could get mine to 12 though, the 6se's gain is so high i usually can't go past 9. i feel like the volume knob is going to waste


----------



## punkaroo

This may sound like a stupid question, but will upgrading to the PDPS help?


----------



## K_19

Wait, what headphones do you have plugged into the WA6 to go 12 o'clock? O_o; 

 If you mean the HF2, then damn! With my RS1 I can't go past 11 o'clock without blasting my ears off (through Pico DAC)! I guess I listen really quietly?


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This may sound like a stupid question, but will upgrading to the PDPS help?_

 

no, i heard that just makes the power a little more stable. its a matter of gain and source level.


----------



## punkaroo

Yup, HF-2s!

 OH GODAMMN, the WA6 brand new now includes the PDPS! ARGH! Man, shipping mine to Jack for the upgrade and shipping it back is probably going to cost a stupid amount. I should've bought the WA6 brand new.

 $#@%!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my WA6 today! Man, I had no idea how HUGE and HEAVY this amp was! It's beautiful!

 It's totally stock; I'll have to double check which tubes I plugged into it. However...I have the volume at nearly 12 o'clock...is this amp really that quiet to have to blast it? Does it need to be burned in more?_

 

Congrats on your WA6. The amp is very quiet. I normally listen to mine between 11:00 and 2:00 depending on the CD. What I like over other amps out there, is that you get full use of the volume control. Some amps are too loud if you turn the control past 9:00. One thing you should know is volume control position has nothing to do with power output capacity. If an amp is loud at 9:00, it may clip (distort) at 12:00. The WA6 with a typical CD player's 2 volt output, can be cranked to maximum without distortion in most cases. I must say, maximum will cause your ears to bleed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





_*P.S. If you have the WA6SE, it has alot more gain than the standard WA6. *_


----------



## TheAudioDude

Great avatar, punkaroo! The X-Files is my favorite T.V. series of all-time, aside from Seinfeld of course.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I don't have first-hand experience with the PDPS, but from everyone who has it they've said it's a must-have.


----------



## kunalraiker

So should new buyers get the WA 6SE instead of the WA6 because of this gain problem, will the Sophia rectifier and PPSU still apply to the SE version, sorry if the questions sound stupid.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my WA6 today! Man, I had no idea how HUGE and HEAVY this amp was! It's beautiful!

 It's totally stock; I'll have to double check which tubes I plugged into it. However...I have the volume at nearly 12 o'clock...is this amp really that quiet to have to blast it? Does it need to be burned in more?_

 

Congratulations. a hundred hours later, the amp will sound even better. Trust me.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So should new buyers get the WA 6SE instead of the WA6 because of this gain problem, will the Sophia rectifier and PPSU still apply to the SE version, sorry if the questions sound stupid._

 

The 6SE does have more gain than the 6, but a simple fix for the WA6 is just to use a higher gain tube - namely the 6FD7's. These are my favourite tubes anyway, so that's always a good option.

 The 6SE has the PDPS as standard (I think it may even be a true dual ps on the 6SE?). And yes, the Sophia is still a good rectifier choice for the 6SE, as is the EML 5U4G Mesh plate.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So should new buyers get the WA 6SE instead of the WA6 because of this gain problem, will the Sophia rectifier and PPSU still apply to the SE version, sorry if the questions sound stupid._

 

It's not a problem. It's actually nice to be able to use most of the volume control's range.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not a problem. It's actually nice to be able to use most of the volume control's range._

 

I would also think that ,especially when you are paying around$1000.00 including upgrades for an amp.

 It should be able to easily drive even the most descerning headphones to loud if not very loud levels, not just listening at enjoyable levels.

 Its for the fun times, when you want to blast the music


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The WA6 does not lack power with a proper source that has the recommended 2v - 2.74v output level, and when the impedance switch is set properly for the phones you are using. 

 The volume knob, as stated above, allows you to use the full range for a wider variety of headphones. It's good for highly sensitive custom IEM, or 600 ohm AKG K240M, and anything in between except the K1000 (which still sound decent but need a speaker amp to drive them). It can play very loud with 32 ohm Grados or 300 ohm HD600/800, and can even drive the very inefficient HE-5 headphones. You just have to get used to using the 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock range of the knob, where most amps would be clipping because max volume is really at 12-2 o'clock.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I have a pair of 6FD7 lying around awaiting new owner which is not recommended to be used with my 6SE... Wonder who needs it.


----------



## K_19

So what does the PDPS REALLY improve over the stock version of WA6? I've heard of many, many cases where people have said "they're better" "It's the best upgrade you can do", but I haven't heard exactly what aspect of it makes it better sounding! Apparently it's not so much of a gain thing... so what is it exactly? Soundstage? Detail? Better extension? Comparisons to qualitative differences in sound would be greatly appreciated. As I love the WA6 more than enough stock I probably won't send it back in to Woo yet anyway (not until I start having problems with it down the road), but it'd be good to know for future reference.


----------



## melomaniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what does the PDPS REALLY improve over the stock version of WA6? I've heard of many, many cases where people have said "they're better" "It's the best upgrade you can do", but I haven't heard exactly what aspect of it makes it better sounding! Apparently it's not so much of a gain thing... so what is it exactly? Soundstage? Detail? Better extension? Comparisons to qualitative differences in sound would be greatly appreciated. As I love the WA6 more than enough stock I probably won't send it back in to Woo yet anyway (not until I start having problems with it down the road), but it'd be good to know for future reference._

 

well... at the risk of baiting power-denial trolls, the supply of steady power does matter to amplifiers, for that's the business they are in, as it were - converting power. however, with power supply upgrades (as with outlet and cord upgrades), the degree to which you notice a difference (and find money spent to be worth it) depends on what you are replacing, too. - some people find that they can only get good clean power out of their sockets at 2am way out in the country (or right next door to the power plant?); they are likely to be tempted by battery-driven equipment. other people (like me, frankly) experiment with such upgrades and find them to be noticeable at the margins. yet others believe there is little to it that justifies the outlay. (they may not have maxed out their equipment otherwise, to where the only further improvement would be clean power). - back to your question: yes, soundstage and detail should benefit.


----------



## punkaroo

So I gotta ask more stupid questions, because I'm such a tube newb. Well, sorta...does having a hybrid count?

 So, having low gain and therefore having to 'crank' volume isn't a bad thing then, right? That's not 'bad' for Grados is it? I didn't make the wrong choice did I?!

 Is there anything super important I need to know about this fine lookin' amp? Anything that's a must? And a reply to K_19's question would also be appreciated by me


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *melomaniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well... at the risk of baiting power-denial trolls, the supply of steady power does matter to amplifiers, for that's the business they are in, as it were - converting power. however, with power supply upgrades (as with outlet and cord upgrades), the degree to which you notice a difference (and find money spent to be worth it) depends on what you are replacing, too. - some people find that they can only get good clean power out of their sockets at 2am way out in the country (or right next door to the power plant?); they are likely to be tempted by battery-driven equipment. other people (like me, frankly) experiment with such upgrades and find them to be noticeable at the margins. yet others believe there is little to it that justifies the outlay. (they may not have maxed out their equipment otherwise, to where the only further improvement would be clean power). - back to your question: yes, soundstage and detail should benefit._

 


 Thanks for your opinion on the matter. Good to know. It's probably not as if the stock WA6 power supply is necessarily bad, inefficient or even dangerous or anything, right? As I'm happy with my stock sound for now I'm going to avoid the hassle of sending it back across the border to Woo just for the power supply upgrade (of course, if I have to send it in for other maintenance reasons in the future, then I'd surely do it at that time).


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

If I were to introduce fuse rolling again, some may laugh at me... but I do hear the difference though.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to introduce fuse rolling again, some may laugh at me... but I do hear the difference though._

 

I will not laugh, at least, I do use a Furutech Rhodium (blue) fuse in my WA6SE. And I can hear difference also, in a good aspect, though.


----------



## tosehee

PDPS upgrade is how much? $30? It's a darn good upgrade which is already part of WA6 now.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, having low gain and therefore having to 'crank' volume isn't a bad thing then, right?_

 

No, it does not hurt anything. Even I set gain to high (forgot) with RS-1, nothing happened.


----------



## punkaroo

Listening now with stock rectifier, and 6FD7 tubes; using my Pico DAC to feed into the WA6, I now have the volume knob at about 11 o'clock. Man, this is some sweet, sweet listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One of the first things I noticed is how long the decay on notes is now. AMAZING! Big booming orchestral type drums (my terminology stinks) literally feel like they're BANGING in my HEAD! Cymbals are clashing with amazing ferocity!

 I should take a picture of my Millet Hybrid next to the Woo. It's hysterical how small the little thing is in comparison! But it's been a very good amp to me; it'll be hard selling it!

 I can safely say that Grado HF-2s + WA6 = love.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of 6FD7 lying around awaiting new owner which is not recommended to be used with my 6SE... Wonder who needs it._

 

I thought it was possible to mod the amp to make it safe for the 6FD7? At least one owner had theirs modded while it was being built for this purpose.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought it was possible to mod the amp to make it safe for the 6FD7? At least one owner had theirs modded while it was being built for this purpose._

 

When I asked Jack whether he could modify my old 6SE, he basically just said "No, just don't use 6FD7 tubes".

 Maybe if you ask him while it's being built you'd get another story, but I was quite dissapointed as the 6FD7's, to me, sounded better than the 6EW7s or the 6DE7's.


----------



## bdr529

My understanding is because of the high gain of the 6SE and that the cathode cap is rated within a thin margin of error for the 6fd7, he does not recommend them. Changing the cathode cap, 470uF 100V to something rated with higher voltage appears to make them safe for use.


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listening now with stock rectifier, and 6FD7 tubes; using my Pico DAC to feed into the WA6, I now have the volume knob at about 11 o'clock. Man, this is some sweet, sweet listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One of the first things I noticed is how long the decay on notes is now. AMAZING! Big booming orchestral type drums (my terminology stinks) literally feel like they're BANGING in my HEAD! Cymbals are clashing with amazing ferocity!

 I should take a picture of my Millet Hybrid next to the Woo. It's hysterical how small the little thing is in comparison! But it's been a very good amp to me; it'll be hard selling it!

 I can safely say that Grado HF-2s + WA6 = love._

 

Very glad to play matchmaker for you! Awesome stuff.


----------



## punkaroo

I keep putting off my plans to watch a movie tonight...because I can't peel myself away from my WA6! And I just ordered a Sophia Princess 274B from the Woo site. This place is baaaaaaad, very bad.


----------



## Seamaster

Even I already have EML 5U4G mesh plate. Still, I just ordered EML 5U4G SOILD plate today from Germany. Only few in stock world wide. This place is worse than just baaaaaaaaaaad.


----------



## kunalraiker

Is sophia readily available, or is woo audio the only place.


----------



## Seamaster

Order direct from Sophia is the same price, and their shipping speed is unreally quick.


----------



## jjinh

@kunalraiker: so how's your search for a woo going??


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I keep putting off my plans to watch a movie tonight...because I can't peel myself away from my WA6! And I just ordered a Sophia Princess 274B from the Woo site. This place is baaaaaaad, very bad._

 

no one ever heeds the warning


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjinh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@kunalraiker: so how's your search for a woo going??_

 

The search is still on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still waiting to find one


----------



## jjinh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The search is still on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still waiting to find one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

well, good luck with that!


----------



## BIG POPPA

OK, I went to cable making mode and made some Senn Cables. One for a buddy and one for me. 24 AWG SPC. Man, this was a home run with my WOO and all the tubes I have. Been hypnotized with the Bendix 6080WB and the Tesla E88CC Rhodium plated matched pair. The Woo's can be a little laid back to some people. Not to me anymore with all the gear I have supporting it. Who else uses a Synergistic Research QLS power strip? Those things help fix a few things.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I went to cable making mode and made some Senn Cables. One for a buddy and one for me. 24 AWG SPC. Man, this was a home run with my WOO and all the tubes I have. Been hypnotized with the Bendix 6080WB and the Tesla E88CC Rhodium plated matched pair. The Woo's can be a little laid back to some people. Not to me anymore with all the gear I have supporting it. Who else uses a Synergistic Research QLS power strip? Those things help fix a few things._

 

Where did you get the two pin connectors for the Senns?


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jjinh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, good luck with that!_

 

Yeah... sounds like the most reasonable option is calling off the used hunt and buying a PDPS-upgraded unit new. $620 is actually a killer deal, as long as shipping is moderately reasonable.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah... sounds like the most reasonable option is calling off the used hunt and buying a PDPS-upgraded unit new. $620 is actually a killer deal, as long as shipping is moderately reasonable._

 

Shipping would be $50, I think.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get the two pin connectors for the Senns?_

 

You can get them here CryoParts Cardas Sennheiser Plu g


----------



## atbglenn

Thanks for the info


----------



## jjinh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shipping would be $50, I think._

 

we're in australia so you have to at least double that


----------



## kunalraiker

The shipping is about $120 USD from what I know .


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Woo's can be a little laid back to some people._

 

Some of us are interested for exactly this reason.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Go from Darkvoice to Woo. It is laid back, The mids are recessed a little bit. On the Darkvoice they are front and center.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The shipping is about $120 USD from what I know ._

 

I feel your pain bro, I just ordered EML 5U4G solid plate from Germany, shipping and Paypal free cost $50.82 USD just for one fu*king tube!!


----------



## punkaroo

What's the Sophia rectifier going to do for me? SQ wise?

 (DAMN, it's costing me about $200 Canadian with shipping!!!!!!!)


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the Sophia rectifier going to do for me? SQ wise?

 (DAMN, it's costing me about $200 Canadian with shipping!!!!!!!)_

 

What's your stock tube right now? Sovtek?

 If that's the case, then you're going to get MUCH more controlled bass, more clarity and bit more forwardness in the mids, and less harsh yet more detail/extension in highs. Biggest thing though, is the massive soundstage increase.

 In short: worth it (especially against the Sovteks, which is a bit meh).


----------



## punkaroo

Looks like it's a Tung Sol 5V4GA. Is the Sophia an acceptable replacement?

 Yeah, I'm missing my forward mids!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I do get some improvement on mid range with HiFi Tuning Fuse...


----------



## punkaroo

I'm still stupid on this topic: is that an upgrade done by Jack?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still stupid on this topic: is that an upgrade done by Jack?_

 

Sophia 274B has nothing to do with Jack. It is a plug and play tube swap.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel your pain bro, I just ordered EML 5U4G solid plate from Germany, shipping and Paypal free cost $50.82 USD just for one fu*king tube!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Holy guacamole. Is only available from Germany? No other distributors? Well I hope they pack it well. After all, that is a very expensive light bulb.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's your stock tube right now? Sovtek?

 If that's the case, then you're going to get MUCH more controlled bass, more clarity and bit more forwardness in the mids, and less harsh yet more detail/extension in highs. Biggest thing though, is the massive soundstage increase.

 In short: worth it (especially against the Sovteks, which is a bit meh)._

 

x2 agreed ditto yeah baby! 

 But, remind people it needs 24 hours for the bass to come under control and 80 hours to burn-in fully.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy guacamole. Is only available from Germany? No other distributors? Well I hope they pack it well. After all, that is a very expensive light bulb. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The EML soild plate is out of production. They were sold out in US and Japan. Only Germany has a few in stock.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy guacamole. Is only available from Germany? No other distributors? Well I hope they pack it well. After all, that is a very expensive light bulb. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

If it were cost-effective, I'd replace all my light bulbs with tubes. One of my goals in life is to have lamps all around my house that use tubes. That way, whenever I want to swap tubes, I can just get up and pick any tube I want. It'd be like that scene in Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory where they enter his huge candy room where the trees and flowers and whatnot are made out of candy. TheAudioDude & The Tube Factory...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it were cost-effective, I'd replace all my light bulbs with tubes. One of my goals in life is to have lamps all around my house that use tubes. That way, whenever I want to swap tubes, I can just get up and pick any tube I want. It'd be like that scene in Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory where they enter his huge candy room where the trees and flowers and whatnot are made out of candy. TheAudioDude & The Tube Factory..._

 

I'm with you, TheAudioDude. Now that's what I call mood lighting. Listening to an excellent WooTube under the warm glow of tubes dangling from the ceiling chandelier. Then I'd have one of these on my coffee table.


----------



## punkaroo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sophia 274B has nothing to do with Jack. It is a plug and play tube swap._

 

I was referring to the HiFi tuning fuse that OutdoorXplorer mentioned...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was referring to the HiFi tuning fuse that OutdoorXplorer mentioned..._

 

Oh no, not the fuse as well! Do we really need to introduce another variable to the already complicated Woo tube-roll formulae perfecta?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no, not the fuse as well! Do we really need to introduce another variable to the already complicated Woo tube-roll formulae perfecta?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Too bad you already stuck with us


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no, not the fuse as well! Do we really need to introduce another variable to the already complicated Woo tube-roll formulae perfecta?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No harm trying any affordable PnP tweak that is gonna bring new listening experience... be it an IC or a PC, and some believes the color of WooAudio make a difference..


----------



## punkaroo

Yeah, skip the confusing bits. This place makes my wallet hurt...I don't want it to start hurting my head too!


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No harm trying any affordable PnP tweak that is gonna bring new listening experience... be it an IC or a PC, and some believes the color of WooAudio make a difference.._

 

Why don't they make them in red, then? We all know red things go faster...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No harm trying any affordable PnP tweak that is gonna bring new listening experience... be it an IC or a PC, and some believes the color of WooAudio make a difference.._

 

One or two fuses, maybe, but how many do you think there are out there worth plopping into your Woo? And speaking of color, I thought I saw Seamaster's Black WA22 with a quartz crystal on its transformer lid. I wonder if that helped?


----------



## Pepsi

Wow, upon joining head-fi i cannot believe i forgot to join this group!! Count me in guys, i am in love with my WA5. Even though it was a 1.5 month wait for Jack, it was worth every second when it finally showed up and synced with my HD800's. I remember saying to myself "OH MY GOD" and proceeded to relisten my whole library for next month. Jack what would we do without you?!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One or two fuses, maybe, but how many do you think there are out there worth plopping into your Woo? And speaking of color, I thought I saw Seamaster's Black WA22 with a quartz crystal on its transformer lid. I wonder if that helped?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Crystals just mentally helped. They only work if you have viabration. But I don't for now.

 Black will absorb heat better than silver casing. I also put heatsinks on top of my amp now, that help the amp to run longer without getting too hot.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Crystals just mentally helped. They only work if you have viabration. But I don't for now.

 Black will absorb heat better than silver casing. I also put heatsinks on top of my amp now, that help the amp to run longer without getting too hot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Does Woo amps really run hot...? I just fin it reasonable warm rather than hot. And the construction of the amp is actually a heat sink by itself which does not requires additional heatsink.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Woo amps really run hot...? I just fin it reasonable warm rather than hot. And the construction of the amp is actually a heat sink by itself which does not requires additional heatsink._

 

They are not that hot for a tube amp. But I would like to keep things as cool as I could
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm with you, TheAudioDude. Now that's what I call mood lighting. Listening to an excellent WooTube under the warm glow of tubes dangling from the ceiling chandelier. Then I'd have one of these on my coffee table.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

Where did you get that thing? Very cool!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are not that hot for a tube amp. But I would like to keep things as cool as I could

 Where did you get that thing? Very cool!_

 

I don't own it. It was created by a local artist (SF Bay Area) Evan Holm. He combines nature with man-made objects. I just got the postcard invitation to his exhibit in Oakland.


----------



## sampson_smith

I'm afraid that that one in the bottom left has getter issues. There must be a leak somewhere. I do not see this weird amp running headphones with a balanced signal, if that is in fact a burnt-out power tube.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't own it. It was created by a local artist (SF Bay Area) Evan Holm. He combines nature with man-made objects. I just got the postcard invitation to his exhibit in Oakland.





_

 

That is a unique pice of art, does it light up? He shoud have used EML 5U4G or 6F8G with red cap wire


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a unique pice of art, does it light up? He shoud have used EML 5U4G or 6F8G with red cap wire 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

What kind of amp? I think it's a mono block (of wood!) amp. Does it light up? Well maybe with red cap wire. Now that he should have thought of.


----------



## sampson_smith

Mono block! Haha.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a unique pice of art, does it light up? He shoud have used EML 5U4G or 6F8G with red cap wire 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I know this is off subject but Seamaster, I just saw a picture on the Internet of a pair of Melody M88 balanced KT88 Mono Blocks. How can you and your home handle so much top-notch equipment? Those Mono Blocks are a beaut. How do you divide your time between the Woo and the Melody?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this is off subject but Seamaster, I just saw a picture on the Internet of a pair of Melody M88 balanced KT88 Mono Blocks. How can you and your home handle so much top-notch equipment? Those Mono Blocks are a beaut. How do you divide your time between the Woo and the Melody?_

 

Melody sound beautiful. I got them $1550 USD brand new! Yes at that price they are just only little more expensive than free. As right now I don't have good enough speaker to battle with my headphone system. I only listen to speaker system when I am cooking or doing something around the house.

 I visited ModWright this Monday, and had chance to listen to their reference system. Top the line CDP, their own 150 $6000 USD amp, and a pair of world class Daedelus speakers. Cables were JPS. I would say that kind sound quality I may achieve with Beyer T1 balanced. The sound quality was impressive, but It did not take me by surprise, because I heard this kind SQ with my WA22 amp with other headphones (not HD650 thought)


----------



## sinesurfer

Hi all,

 This might be the wrong place to ask, but i think you guys would know the most about this topic so I'll give it a try. i'm currently on a really entry-level headphone setup (HD650 + FubarIII DAC/Amp + External power supply), and I want to upgrade to a WA6SE. However, I figure that I'm going to need a better USB DAC to get the most out of the amp. Do you guys have any recommendations for DACs that sound well in conjunction with the WA6SE?

 Thanks!!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinesurfer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,

 This might be the wrong place to ask, but i think you guys would know the most about this topic so I'll give it a try. i'm currently on a really entry-level headphone setup (HD650 + FubarIII DAC/Amp + External power supply), and I want to upgrade to a WA6SE. However, I figure that I'm going to need a better USB DAC to get the most out of the amp. Do you guys have any recommendations for DACs that sound well in conjunction with the WA6SE?

 Thanks!!_

 

How bout a MHDT Havana...


----------



## RayfromTX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sinesurfer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,

 This might be the wrong place to ask, but i think you guys would know the most about this topic so I'll give it a try. i'm currently on a really entry-level headphone setup (HD650 + FubarIII DAC/Amp + External power supply), and I want to upgrade to a WA6SE. However, I figure that I'm going to need a better USB DAC to get the most out of the amp. Do you guys have any recommendations for DACs that sound well in conjunction with the WA6SE?

 Thanks!!_

 

My signature line has my choice and I'm quite pleased with it but did no comparison prior to purchase.


----------



## punkaroo

I'm really enjoying my Pico DAC with my WA6


----------



## K_19

I've been a bit confused lately with my two sets of power tubes, both RCA 6DE7's... and I was wondering anyone knowledgeable in tubes can shed a light on exactly what may be causing the differences...

 When I bought my WA6 used, it came with two sets of power tubes; BOTH are labelled as RCA 6DE7's, and they look identical in both external and internal appearance (however, the labelling on the tube IS a bit different). What stumps me here is that there seems to be a SIGNIFICANT difference in sound quality between the two. Here's how the two sets are like:

 Set 1: This one looks newer, with the labelling on the tube still looking fresh. This one has a peak in the upper mids and extends a bit higher than set 2, with harder midbass impact but not much subbass extension. I also think it has a bit more soundstage, but I can't be sure on this one. It seems very bright in general and makes my WA6 sound more SS-ish... It goes great with my HD650 and ESW10JPN but with cans like K701 and RS1, the upper mids peak makes it unlistenable on some songs.

 Set 2: This one definitely looks slightly older, with bit of the labelling worn out. This one is MUCH warmer and thicker than set 2, with better lower mids/subbass extension and weight, but without the upper mids peak of the set 1. The top end seems a bit rolled off in general. This also doesn't seem to have as much gain as the set 1; for example, with my HD650 my preferred volume level is 11 o'clock with set 1, but with the set 2, I have to put it up an extra notch to 12 o'clock. Goes great with K701 and RS1 but not with my other two main cans.

 So what could be causing these differences, when they're apparently both same RCA tubes? Is this something that is typical of a tube wearing down vs the one that is newer (unfortunately, I have no equipment to measure these tubes), or did they make two separate batches in different time periods which indeed sound different? 

 While at it, do you guys have any recommendations for a good 6DE7/equivalent tubes? Anything that is typically thought of as best like with the rectifier tube (Sophia/EML)?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really enjoying my Pico DAC with my WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thats what I use too, can't complain.


----------



## sinesurfer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really enjoying my Pico DAC with my WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

oh, which Pico DAC are you using? i went on headamp's website and noticed they had two DACs: the pico Portable USB DAC/Amp and the pico Upsampling USB DAC. i apologize for not figuring this out on my own =/ i'm still pretty new to the the world of audiophilia, which is probably pretty obvious haha

 thanks!


----------



## sampson_smith

It is my understanding that both Headamp DAC's work just as well. Correct me if I am wrong, someone.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Are both set of 6DE7 being burn in the same amount of time? Alternatively you can also get a pair of fat bottle 6EW7 if you wanna try out other tubes. 6EW7 synergies well with my Sophia though.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been a bit confused lately with my two sets of power tubes, both RCA 6DE7's... and I was wondering anyone knowledgeable in tubes can shed a light on exactly what may be causing the differences...

 When I bought my WA6 used, it came with two sets of power tubes; BOTH are labelled as RCA 6DE7's, and they look identical in both external and internal appearance (however, the labelling on the tube IS a bit different). What stumps me here is that there seems to be a SIGNIFICANT difference in sound quality between the two. Here's how the two sets are like:

 Set 1: This one looks newer, with the labelling on the tube still looking fresh. This one has a peak in the upper mids and extends a bit higher than set 2, with harder midbass impact but not much subbass extension. I also think it has a bit more soundstage, but I can't be sure on this one. It seems very bright in general and makes my WA6 sound more SS-ish... It goes great with my HD650 and ESW10JPN but with cans like K701 and RS1, the upper mids peak makes it unlistenable on some songs.

 Set 2: This one definitely looks slightly older, with bit of the labelling worn out. This one is MUCH warmer and thicker than set 2, with better lower mids/subbass extension and weight, but without the upper mids peak of the set 1. The top end seems a bit rolled off in general. This also doesn't seem to have as much gain as the set 1; for example, with my HD650 my preferred volume level is 11 o'clock with set 1, but with the set 2, I have to put it up an extra notch to 12 o'clock. Goes great with K701 and RS1 but not with my other two main cans.

 So what could be causing these differences, when they're apparently both same RCA tubes? Is this something that is typical of a tube wearing down vs the one that is newer (unfortunately, I have no equipment to measure these tubes), or did they make two separate batches in different time periods which indeed sound different? 

 While at it, do you guys have any recommendations for a good 6DE7/equivalent tubes? Anything that is typically thought of as best like with the rectifier tube (Sophia/EML)?

 Thanks in advance._


----------



## kunalraiker

Anyone willing to part with their WA 6 any soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will assure you, it will go to a nice home.


----------



## sampson_smith

I still have a strong feeling that you may be better off with ordering a new one from Jack with the now-cheaper PDPS. Even if it is, like, $100 shipping. Otherwise, you may be waiting for another 30 WTB posts. That way, you can be sure that it is in top condition and customized to your liking.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just slapped my Furutech Rhodium fuse back in. So much better than the Hi-Fi Tuning Silver. They cost a few bucks more but worth it. Way more smoother and clearer than the Hi-Fi Tuning.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are both set of 6DE7 being burn in the same amount of time? Alternatively you can also get a pair of fat bottle 6EW7 if you wanna try out other tubes. 6EW7 synergies well with my Sophia though._

 

I have no idea how long these tubes were burned in for by the previous owner (and he also bought the same unit used as well, so he may not know either). I'd be surprised if burn-in alone accounted for this big of a difference, though! Although I'm not ruling out the possibility of differences being from one being significantly used or something like that.

 I'm using the set 2 at the time being because I'm just finding that treble peak of set 1 a little too harsh...


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no idea how long these tubes were burned in for by the previous owner (and he also bought the same unit used as well, so he may not know either). I'd be surprised if burn-in alone accounted for this big of a difference, though! Although I'm not ruling out the possibility of differences being from one being significantly used or something like that.

 I'm using the set 2 at the time being because I'm just finding that treble peak of set 1 a little too harsh..._

 

If you find the tube being unsuitable, try to get a pair of 6EW7 fat bottle to tryout, if your WA6 is the newer version which can accept the fat bottles.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just slapped my Furutech Rhodium fuse back in. So much better than the Hi-Fi Tuning Silver. They cost a few bucks more but worth it. Way more smoother and clearer than the Hi-Fi Tuning._

 

This is poisoning.. I have spent some monies on HiFi Tuning Fuses for my amp and DAC.. Also upgraded my DAC's output capacitors at the same time.. Wish I have some spare fund to play with. Maybe will get a Furutech Rodium for the Welborne Labs PSU for SB3...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is poisoning.. I have spent some monies on HiFi Tuning Fuses for my amp and DAC.. Also upgraded my DAC's output capacitors at the same time.. Wish I have some spare fund to play with. Maybe will get a Furutech Rodium for the Welborne Labs PSU for SB3..._

 

If you don't mind to check this out:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/hi...ontrol-468343/


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you don't mind to check this out:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/hi...ontrol-468343/_

 

Luckily I didn't ordered those silver fuses. I am currently with the original gold caps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no idea how long these tubes were burned in for by the previous owner (and he also bought the same unit used as well, so he may not know either). I'd be surprised if burn-in alone accounted for this big of a difference, though! Although I'm not ruling out the possibility of differences being from one being significantly used or something like that.

 I'm using the set 2 at the time being because I'm just finding that treble peak of set 1 a little too harsh..._

 

It's entirely possible the difference is due to the vintage of the tubes. The older RCAs, especially those from the 50's, tend to sound more refined and lush than the newer stock. Though it is strange to hear RCA described as bright, as they tend to be among the darkest sounding brands. Do your RCAs have the shield plate between the two sections? This seems to be the RCA 6DE7 to have.

 I'm still trying to learn more about variations amongst the different tubes too. There is a lot to learn and the info is scattered about and hard to find. For example I recently acquired a couple of 5V4G tubes, a Tung Sol and a Raytheon. The Tung Sol has two separate sections, whereas the Raytheon has only a single section. They look like two completely different tubes aside from sharing the same glass shape, but both are 5V4Gs. I can't help but wonder why they are so different.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's entirely possible the difference is due to the vintage of the tubes. The older RCAs, especially those from the 50's, tend to sound more refined and lush than the newer stock. Though it is strange to hear RCA described as bright, as they tend to be among the darkest sounding brands. Do your RCAs have the shield plate between the two sections? This seems to be the RCA 6DE7 to have.

 I'm still trying to learn more about variations amongst the different tubes too. There is a lot to learn and the info is scattered about and hard to find. For example I recently acquired a couple of 5V4G tubes, a Tung Sol and a Raytheon. The Tung Sol has two separate sections, whereas the Raytheon has only a single section. They look like two completely different tubes aside from sharing the same glass shape, but both are 5V4Gs. I can't help but wonder why they are so different._

 

Thanks for your comments on the issue. Yes, both sets have that shield plate between the sections. I've been taking a look at both sets of the tubes and I really cannot find anything ergonomically different between the two except for the labeling on the tubes, which are different:

 This is the type of lettering on my set 1 (this pic is not of a 6DE7 obviously but the RCA lettering style is the same; the third tube from the left): 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And this is the same labeling as it is on my set 2 (actually, they look exactly like the one I have, boxes included): 






 So I guess they're from different production periods for sure? 

 As for it being "bright", well, maybe that isn't the best word (it's more like set 2 sounds much more lush rather than set 1 being bright), but the upper mid peak is definitely there with the set 1. It brings out more details than the set 2 and is amazing with HD650 and ESW10JPN, but with RS1/flats and K701, the upper mids get spiked enough so that they sound like the singer is shouting loud right into your ears! Eventually this became too much for me (My ears fatigue very easily on this frequency) so I switched to set 2, which sacrifices this range but brings better bass detail/extension to my ears, for much more relaxed listening.


----------



## BIG POPPA

So glad I didn't order a WA6
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Have an easier time with tubes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have some nice tubes too.


----------



## DoingOK

Hello Gentlemen......new to the forum and have spent the last week reading hundreds of threads/replies to glean some knowledge. My first post on this forum/thread is because I just received a new pair of AKG 702's (first ever decent set of phones) and after countless hours of reviewing, I think the WA6 may be the headphone amp that would pair well with my cans. I understand everyone has their own subtle tastes and not so subtle opinions, but have there been many people happy with this combination? I thank you in advance for any information. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rich

 If it will help, my listening room consists of Emotiva (RSP-2, RPA-2, ERC-1) gear and Usher Be-718's. I just purchased a Wadia transport and Musical Fidelity DAC to incorporate into my system. Lots to learn and I sincerely appreciate any help!


----------



## K_19

I find that my K701 does very well with WA6 overall (great soundstage and detailing), but you're going to have to match your tubes and DAC well with it. It can sound overly peaky in lower treble and seem as if it lack bass if you don't have the right combination.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find that my K701 does very well with WA6 overall (great soundstage and detailing), but you're going to have to match your tubes and DAC well with it. It can sound overly peaky in lower treble and seem as if it lack bass if you don't have the right combination._

 

Thanks for your input. I'm wondering if I should look towards something SS to feed the current hungry cans. As far as the DAC goes, I'm just going to be using my preamp-->headphone amp-->AKG 702's. The iPod is just connected via the MF DAC/Wadia transport to an Aux input in my preamp. Too many variables/choices out there but everyone seems pretty impressed with the Woo product line. I just need to find that one combination that'll be perfect......hence the endless quest in this hobby we have.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again.

 Rich


----------



## HeatFan12

Very nice and clean setup you have there, Rich...Welcome...


----------



## atbglenn

Rich, Welcome to Head-Fi. Very nice setup


----------



## DoingOK

Thank you gentlemen. I think this is now the 28th forum I belong to (lots of interests/hobbies) and I've spent nearly 5 hours a day reading information on this site.

 I'll throw this out there for now........anyone experience the 701/702's enough to tell me what tube/WA6 combo works best? Subjective I'm sure, but I like acoustic, DMB, jazz type music. I am an old school bass kinda guy (I'm 45 as of yesterday) so I'd like the 702's to have a decent clean bass sound if that is possible. Again, I thank you guys for the kind welcome.


 Off to read some more threads. I'm looking at new cable options.......I like to build my own.


 Rich


----------



## TheAudioDude

Welcome, Rich. Your wallet will hate hate this place but your ears will love it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Excellent looking equipment rack!


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome, Rich. Your wallet will hate hate this place but your ears will love it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Excellent looking equipment rack!_

 

Thank you......my wallet is still reeling from my man cave audio build and I just spent a bunch just to make an iPod listening worthy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to hurry up and get my tax refund.

 Quick question......how hot does the WA6 run?

 I've already had a PM about my audio rack, so here's a quick picture. Not to take this thread offtopic, but SolidTech makes them and I love it.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I am an old school bass kinda guy (I'm 45 as of yesterday) 

 Rich 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Happy Birthday Rich! I'm also an old school bass kinda guy myself. Been playing bass almost as long as you've been on earth! 

 Glenn


 [size=medium]P.S. The Woo WA6 runs luke warm even after being on all day[/size]


----------



## TheAudioDude

One day I'll treat myself to a rack like that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If it's any help, my WA22 runs fairly warm. The transformer in the center gets very warm but nowhere near hot enough that I can't keep my hand on it. The chassis is designed to dissipate heat, so you shouldn't have to worry about anything overheating.


----------



## Seamaster

Rich, you may consider better can than K702 later. Try HD800 if you like K702.


----------



## atbglenn

In case you missed my edit in my last post, the WA6 chassis, including the power transformer, run luke warm even after being powered up all day. The tubes on the other hand, run pretty hot. You wouldn't want to put anything flammable near them, but that's normal for tubes in general..


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One day I'll treat myself to a rack like that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If it's any help, my WA22 runs fairly warm. The transformer in the center gets very warm but nowhere near hot enough that I can't keep my hand on it. The chassis is designed to dissipate heat, so you shouldn't have to worry about anything overheating._

 

When I frist got my WA22, it ran very hot. But now it is not as hot as before, I tried and tested without heatshink trick. Wired. Maybe it is a run-in thing again. Also I am glad ordered black chassis which dissipate heat little better. I think, I maybe worng on this one.

 Jack told us NOT to run amp more than 8 hours, I found this is ture. It gets hot after that. But the amp cools down very quick. Give it 2 hours to cool, then you are good to go for another 8 hours.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rich, you may consider better can than K702 later. Try HD800 if you like K702._

 

I'm sure like most of my hobbies, I'll upgrade, mod and basically change everything I start out with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The AKG's are what I consider my first "real" set of headphones. Everything else has been $40 Best Buy jobs. I needed something so I wouldn't bother my fiance' in the next room when I felt like enjoying some "spirited" listening. The Usher Be-718's and Epik subwoofer don't play nice with the rest of the house.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good to hear the WA6 doesn't run exceptionally hot. Thanks again fellas.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In case you missed my edit in my last post, the WA6 chassis, including the power transformer, run luke warm even after being powered up all day. The tubes on the other hand, run pretty hot. You wouldn't want to put anything flammable near them, but that's normal for tubes in general.._

 

Maybe the two chassis design of WA6 helped? My guess


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe the two chassis design of WA6 helped? My guess_

 

I have the standard 6. It's a single chassis. The WA22 has those large output tubes which probably draw lots of current. Probably the reason your amp runs hotter than mine.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but with RS1/flats and K701, the upper mids get spiked enough so that they sound like the singer is shouting loud right into your ears! Eventually this became too much for me (My ears fatigue very easily on this frequency) so I switched to set 2, which sacrifices this range but brings better bass detail/extension to my ears, for much more relaxed listening._

 

I have exactly this same problem. The RCAs in your second picture are the ones that are prized by several people here. I'm in the process of hunting some down at the moment myself.


----------



## DoingOK

I've searched first, but to no avail. So if I pull the trigger on the WA6, how does one go about getting the PDPS mod done and who is Jack?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've searched first, but to no avail. So if I pull the trigger on the WA6, how does one go about getting the PDPS mod done and who is Jack? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The PDPS is standard on the WA6 now so no need to order it that way. You can get extra tubes directly from Jack (Owner of Woo) for $17 a pair...


----------



## sampson_smith

Jack Wu who runs/owns Woo (sic) Audio.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PDPS is standard on the WA6 now so no need to order it that way. You can get extra tubes directly from Jack (Owner of Woo) for $17 a pair..._

 

Thank you Sir. I looked at the pic in your sig to see if I could determine the mod. Merry Christmas to me.....I just ordered the WA6 in black. I'm sure it will be just the first step in a long (and expensive) trip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Rich


----------



## sampson_smith

Funny that, as I am sure that the WA6, for many, is considered the LAST step, in a long (and slightly less-expensive) trip.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny that, as I am sure that the WA6, for many, is considered the LAST step, in a long (and slightly less-expensive) trip._

 

Well.......I'm getting old so I'm just trying to jump ahead a bit and save me some interim steps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After weeks of researching, the consensus I get is the Woo equipment is very nice and still affordable. Thanks for the info fellas.


----------



## sampson_smith

True. I hopefully will be content with the WA6 (perhaps SE) when I get a hold of one after graduation/finding employment. Beautiful, lasting works of art, those.


----------



## punkaroo

If I ever buy a pair of HD650s, or 701s...then I'll buy the SE. But the stock WA6 is awesome...as you are already aware of, Sampson! Thanks man, it's a real beaut! It scored high on the WAF


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you Sir. I looked at the pic in your sig to see if I could determine the mod. Merry Christmas to me.....I just ordered the WA6 in black. I'm sure it will be just the first step in a long (and expensive) trip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rich_

 

Before the PDPS Mod... BTW, Congrats on your Woo order!





 After the mod


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I ever buy a pair of HD650s, or 701s...then I'll buy the SE. But the stock WA6 is awesome...as you are already aware of, Sampson! Thanks man, it's a real beaut! It scored high on the WAF 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right on! So you don't think that the standard WA6 will do for 650's/701's? The previous fellow that owned the WA6 said that it was pretty good with 650's, but he preferred his HF-2's to the Senn's. Glad that it scores well on the Wholly Appeasing Facet!


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before the PDPS Mod... BTW, Congrats on your Woo order!_

 

Hmmmm......interesting. Thanks for the clarification Glenn. Now the question is how long until my order ships? Can Jack be "wooed" with Girl Scout cookies to expedite the order?


----------



## punkaroo

Doesn't the 701 need a crapload of power? I know nothing. Edumacate me please!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right on! So you don't think that the standard WA6 will do for 650's/701's? The previous fellow that owned the WA6 said that it was pretty good with 650's, but he preferred his HF-2's to the Senn's. Glad that it scores well on the Wholly Appeasing Facet!_


----------



## bdr529

The WA6 and 6SE both advertise the same power specs, is the power output that different?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WA6 and 6SE both advertise the same power specs, is the power output that different?_

 

The SE has about 3 times the power of the standard model. Not that the standard 6 is lacking in power at 380 mw into 32 ohms, 200 mw into 300 ohms if I'm not mistaken


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SE has about 3 times the power of the standard model. Not that the standard 6 is lacking in power at 380 mw into 32 ohms, 200 mw into 300 ohms if I'm not mistaken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The post you've put is that really true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does the Sophia tube rectifier work with WA 6 and do you need the PPSU for the SE, If the power is 3 times more,is that a bad thing when you want to drive low impedance headphones like Grado's


----------



## sampson_smith

No. The SE edition has a high and low impedance output. There are two separate jacks for that. The Sophia works with the WA6. And no, the SE doesn't require the PDPS upgrade.


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SE has about 3 times the power of the standard model. Not that the standard 6 is lacking in power at 380 mw into 32 ohms, 200 mw into 300 ohms if I'm not mistaken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Consider myself edumacatedumacatedumaca... uhhh... _smarter?_


----------



## DoingOK

Wow......3 to 4 weeks to deliver the WA6. I was hoping for something by next Friday.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow......3 to 4 weeks to deliver the WA6. I was hoping for something by next Friday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Well, they _are_ hand-built, and built in the order that orders come in.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can Jack be "wooed" with Girl Scout cookies to expedite the order?_

 

Definitely not, he prefers a very special type of chocolate bonbons from France, very expensive, it is called "Bonbon Amarock Réglette". You even can order it online! Jack loves sweets.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, they are hand-built, and built in the order that orders come in._

 

I was just hoping he had a few "lying around". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well.....it'll be worth the wait I'm sure.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely not, he prefers a very special type of chocolate bonbons from France, very expensive, it is called "Bonbon Amarock Réglette". You even can order it online! Jack loves sweets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Those look a little too fancy for me.


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely not, he prefers a very special type of chocolate bonbons from France, very expensive, it is called "Bonbon Amarock Réglette". You even can order it online! Jack loves sweets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha... I almost believed that! Maybe if you throw in a crate, he'll throw in a Sophia?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just hoping he had a few "lying around". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well.....it'll be worth the wait I'm sure.



 Those look a little too fancy for me. 




_

 

Not nearly as fancy as your equipment rack


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those look a little too fancy for me._

 

Not for Jack, his taste is exquisite in that manner.


----------



## sillysally

Anybody know what kind of phone jack the WA6SE uses? 

 And is the jack a Double open circuit or Closed ?

 I replaced my high Imp jack with a Double open circuit Switchcraft N112B jack. 

 I am trying to understand why this new jack really opened up my soundstage and I can crank up the volume higher without having my ears ring. 

 ss


----------



## tosehee

Got my WA22 just now (5 mins ago), unpacked and started to burn.

 At very first listen, there is a slight hum with no music playing even at low volume with HD800.

 I am hoping this goes away with burn in.


----------



## St3ve

I've done a bad (good) thing........A very bad (wonderful) thing. I have ordered a WA6. I thought I could be sensible and wait till I get paid a couple more times. But I couldn't. Now I have to try and explain to my partner why we will be eating gruel in a house with no heating for the next month.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've done a bad (good) thing........A very bad (wonderful) thing. I have ordered a WA6. I thought I could be sensible and wait till I get paid a couple more times. But I couldn't. Now I have to try and explain to my partner why we will be eating gruel in a house with no heating for the next month._

 






 I felt very much the same when I ordered mine back in Sept. I can tell you that the guilt will dissappear (sooner than you think) and only the bliss will remain. 

 The real hard part is the wait while your amp is built and delivered... 

 cheers !


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I felt very much the same when I ordered mine back in Sept. I can tell you that the guilt will dissappear (sooner than you think) and only the bliss will remain. 

 The real hard part is the wait while your amp is built and delivered... 

 cheers !_

 

QFT.....I even tried to bribe Jack to hurry my build.


----------



## St3ve

I just hope that in 5-6 weeks time (or whenever it comes through) I don't have customs bending me over for import duty.

 My Bday is in early march, so hopefully I can smuggle it into my man-cave as an anonymous gift from someone. My little secret


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_QFT.....I even tried to bribe Jack to hurry my build. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lol.

 All that failed, didn't it?

 Waiting is a real pain..


----------



## St3ve

Are they all made by the man himself? He must be very busy considering how well-regarded, and sought after, his amps seem to be.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_QFT.....I even tried to bribe Jack to hurry my build. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lol.

 All that failed, didn't it?

 Waiting is a real pain..


----------



## HeatFan12

Well, I think a toast of our favorite adult beverage is in order for these new Woo owners....Cheers
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was there exactly one year ago...Time will pass quickly, no worries....


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think a toast of our favorite adult beverage is in order for these new Woo owners....Cheers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was there exactly one year ago...Time will pass quickly, no worries...._

 

Thanks Heatfan,

 I was of the verge of going for LD MKIV SE, which you helpfully commented on, but thought "in for a penny, in for a pound" - a transformer-coupled job just makes a lot more sense (even if it is less friendly with the bank manager). If you are going all-tube, the Woo amps seem to be the business.

 I don't mind waiting too much - it will be nice surprise when it does turn up


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Heatfan,

 I was of the verge of going for LD MKIV SE, which you helpfully commented on, but thought "in for a penny, in for a pound" - a transformer-coupled job just makes a lot more sense (even if it is less friendly with the bank manager). If you are going all-tube, the Woo amps seem to be the business.

 I don't mind waiting too much - it will be nice surprise when it does turn up_

 


 My pleasure St3ve. You have made a great choice.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my WA22 just now (5 mins ago), unpacked and started to burn.

 At very first listen, there is a slight hum with no music playing even at low volume with HD800.

 I am hoping this goes away with burn in._

 

Is the hum coming from both channels? My amp's hum comes slightly from the left channel. I've lessened it by rolling only these rectifiers and using a low impedance headphone--the K701 or using the HD750 on low. If I'm not mistaken, TheAudioDude's amp has a very low hum as well and much improved from when he first received his WA22.

 #80 with adapter
 5Y3
 5R4 GA/ GB/ GY/ GYA/ GYB/ WGA

 I've settled in on the 5R4 /GYA for the time being. The amp still sounds absolutely incredible.


----------



## Pepsi

Just of out curiosity, What kind of sources do you guys pair your Woos with?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just of out curiosity, What kind of sources do you guys pair your Woos with?_

 

On my WA2 (4 inputs), I have the DacMagic, LD DAC_I, Sony SACD/CDP, and another Sony CDP. I use the pre-out to my A5s. Headphones or speakers...Good times....


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just of out curiosity, What kind of sources do you guys pair your Woos with?_

 

My Cambridge Audio 640C CD Player.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the hum coming from both channels? My amp's hum comes slightly from the left channel. I've lessened it by rolling only these rectifiers and using a low impedance headphone--the K701 or using the HD750 on low. If I'm not mistaken, TheAudioDude's amp has a very low hum as well and much improved from when he first received his WA22.

 #80 with adapter
 5Y3
 5R4 GA/ GB/ GY/ GYA/ GYB/ WGA

 I've settled in on the 5R4 /GYA for the time being. The amp still sounds absolutely incredible._

 

Yep, when I got my amp there was a noticeable hum mainly in the left channel (I think). During music, I couldn't hear it because it was so low but I decided to ask Jack about it anyways; so I sent my amp back and he added an extra magnetic shield to reduce it. It was lessened a bit but like almost any tube amp, there is a very small amount of hum when no music is playing. After about one song though, my hearing adjusts and I don't really notice the hum anymore... or perhaps my hearing is starting to go bad from all the music listening!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should also mention I live in an apartment complex that seems like it was made in the 70s, or at least in the 80s. Apartment complexes aren't very well known for their pure and good electricity, which may have something to contribute to this.

 Pepsi-
 I'm using my computer plugged into my PS Audio DLIII via optical. I noticed that with coax, I'd get a very very low buzzing if I turned the volume dial all the way up. Now it's dead silent. At some point in time I plan to build a dedicated music box though.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just of out curiosity, What kind of sources do you guys pair your Woos with?_

 

I'm kind of embarrassed to say that I *believe* the best way to connect my WA6 is from the tape out on my preamp? I've never had a headphone amp before. Am I wrong in assuming this? That way, I can listen to cd's and my iPod via a Wadia transport/Musical Fidelity through my Emotiva RSP-2. I know I could just connect the WA6 directly to my cd player, but I want to be able to switch inputs. I guess the signal will only be as clean as the signal path thru the preamp.


 Any help is greatly appreciated:


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm kind of embarrassed to say that I *believe* the best way to connect my WA6 is from the tape out on my preamp? I've never had a headphone amp before. Am I wrong in assuming this? That way, I can listen to cd's and my iPod via a Wadia transport/Musical Fidelity through my Emotiva RSP-2. 


 Any help is greatly appreciated:



_

 

Man that is a freakin' work of art. All you need is to place your WA6 on top and everything will be right in the universe.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that any output from your preamp is alright. I just found this, but I'm not sure if it specifically answers your question:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/con...mp-out-251727/


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man that is a freakin' work of art. All you need is to place your WA6 on top and everything will be right in the universe.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that any output from your preamp is alright. I just found this, but I'm not sure if it specifically answers your question:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/con...mp-out-251727/_

 

Thanks for the link sir. Thanks for the compliment also.


----------



## Pepsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man that is a freakin' work of art. All you need is to place your WA6 on top and everything will be right in the universe.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that any output from your preamp is alright. I just found this, but I'm not sure if it specifically answers your question:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/con...mp-out-251727/_

 

Touche, that thing is drooling nice!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man that is a freakin' work of art. All you need is to place your WA6 on top and everything will be right in the universe.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that any output from your preamp is alright. I just found this, but I'm not sure if it specifically answers your question:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/con...mp-out-251727/_

 

Yes yes yes. _A freakin' work of art_ alright. I own 3 Emotivas myself: the ERC-1, the USP-1, and the UPA-2, but they aren't sitting pretty on support shelves like yours! AWESOME! Absolutely awe-some! A Woo amp will just make it that much more sweeter.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes yes yes. A freakin' work of art alright. I own 3 Emotivas myself: the ERC-1, the USP-1, and the UPA-2, but they aren't sitting pretty on support shelves like yours! AWESOME! Absolutely awe-some! A Woo amp will just make it that much more sweeter._

 

Good to hear.....I love their gear. I also have a UPA-2, USP-1 and UPA-7 to go along with the other gear. How did you connect a headphone amp to your gear? I've already ordered the interconnects from Blue Jeans Cable.....just waiting on the Woo candy.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just of out curiosity, What kind of sources do you guys pair your Woos with?_

 

The best way to go is source to amp. 

 My source is a Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition. The Oppo uses a Dedicated Stereo Output for 2ch analog. It uses a 8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip by stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels to achieve greater audio performance. 

 My amp is a WA6SE max, I use a EML 274B solid plate and a pair of 6EW7 RCA circa 1963 big bottle silver top. 

 My main headphones are HD-800 and a HD-800 Cardas Cable.

 I use a pair of King Cobra (1M) interconnects, taking advantage of the amps ground plug.

 My power cords for source and amp are violet Z1 (1M)

 I also use a PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner and a Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord. 

 There is no hum or RF just dead quit, so when I play music or a movie or stream, I am getting my audio pure no RF. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was plagued by a radio tower 3 blocks away among other things, it was unacceptable. Now as I said there is no back ground noise.

 ss


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear.....I love their gear. I also have a UPA-2, USP-1 and UPA-7 to go along with the other gear. How did you connect a headphone amp to your gear? I've already ordered the interconnects fro Blue Jeans Cable.....just waiting on the Woo candy._

 

I connect it to the tape out on the USP-1. This is a photo of my system before I got the USP-1 AND before the Woo. There are also 2 sets of analog RCA outputs and 1 set of balanced XLR outputs on the back of your ERC-1 so you can connect directly to the Woo from there as well if you are just listening to CDs on your Woo. Otherwise use the tape output on the USP-1.


----------



## DoingOK

Are you gentlemen finding the Sophia Electric™ 274B to be a worthy upgrade? I'm just delving into the tube world and I look forward to the tweaking part. My AKG's are supposed to already have a nice soundstage so what additional trait does this mod provide? Thanks.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The best way to go is source to amp. 

 My source is a Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition. The Oppo uses a Dedicated Stereo Output for 2ch analog. It uses a 8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip by stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels to achieve greater audio performance. 

 My amp is a WA6SE max, I use a EML 274B solid plate and a pair of 6EW7 RCA circa 1963 big bottle silver top. 

 My main headphones are HD-800 and a HD-800 Cardas Cable.

 I use a pair of King Cobra (1M) interconnects, taking advantage of the amps ground plug.

 My power cords for source and amp are violet Z1 (1M)

 I also use a PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner and a Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord. 

 There is no hum or RF just dead quit, so when I play music or a movie or stream, I am getting my audio pure no RF. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was plagued by a radio tower 3 blocks away among other things, it was unacceptable. Now as I said there is no back ground noise.

 ss_

 

I just found and ordered EML 5U4G solid plate. I also got violet ZII with upgraded connectors, every thing is great about is cable, but midrange and voical is little dry and not forward enough.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you gentlemen finding the Sophia Electric™ 274B to be a worthy upgrade? I'm just delving into the tube world and I look forward to the tweaking part. My AKG's are supposed to already have a nice soundstage so what additional trait does this mod provide? Thanks._

 

They worth every penny if you don't pair them with 6F8G type


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I connect it to the tape out on the USP-1. This is a photo of my system before I got the USP-1 AND before the Woo. There are also 2 sets of analog RCA outputs and 1 set of balanced XLR outputs on the back of your ERC-1 so you can connect directly to the Woo from there as well if you are just listening to CDs on your Woo. Otherwise use the tape output on the USP-1.




_

 

Very nice sir. I see we have some common tastes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have three of those XBR4 Tv's (52, 46 and 40). I'm using the UPA-7 for my living room Def Techs. Here's a pic of my living room (the Ushers/Emotiva gear was just getting burned in prior to going to my listening room):


----------



## Seamaster

very creative to put your gears in the fire place


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_very creative to put your gears in the fire place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL........well the girlfriend was out of town, so I just hooked up my 2 channel system in the living room to let them "breathe" loudly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Twas' a glorious weekend. All that gear is back in my man cave now.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL........well the girlfriend was out of town, so I just hooked up my 2 channel system in the living room to let them "breathe" loudly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Twas' a glorious weekend. All that gear is back in my man cave now._

 

If it's not too intrusive to ask it would be great to see some pictures of your man cave b.w. (before Woo!)


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's not too intrusive to ask it would be great to see some pictures of your man cave b.w. (before Woo!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sure.........this will be the home of the Woo gear:

 My speakers and massage chair:
















 I plan on putting the WA6 and a Woo Audio headphone stand (with AKG 702's) on the little table to the left of my computer desk.


----------



## sillysally

Seamaster;6347575 said:
			
		

> I just found and ordered EML 5U4G solid plate. I also got violet ZII with upgraded connectors, every thing is great about is cable, but midrange and voical is little dry and not forward enough.
> 
> Yes that is what I have read about the violet ZII and that's why I just jumped on the special that black sand has on the violet ZI and ordered 1 more violet ZI from them. From what I have read the ZII is more of RF cord as where the ZI is just a pure cord but if you need shielding then the ZII may be a better way to go. And In my case I only use 1M violet ZI and don't have a problem with interference because of my PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner, King Cobra interconnects (1M) and my direct connect system.
> 
> ...


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SE has about 3 times the power of the standard model. Not that the standard 6 is lacking in power at 380 mw into 32 ohms, 200 mw into 300 ohms if I'm not mistaken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I felt checking with Jack was a better option,below is what he replied.The e-mail he sent me.

 The WA6 has enough power to drive almost any headphones. The WA6SE has about 1 watt of max output. You don't need such high power all the time. However, the extra power will be able to handle the most demanding passage effortlessly.

 Yes, K702 and HD800 are not a problem. Many of our customers have such setup and satisfy with it.

 Thanks,
 Jack


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure.........this will be the home of the Woo gear:

 My speakers and massage chair:
















 I plan on putting the WA6 and a Woo Audio headphone stand (with AKG 702's) on the little table to the left of my computer desk._

 

Thank you for posting the pictures of your man cave--and, unfortunately, I will have to contradict you ever so slightly on this matter: It's not, as you say, a _man cave_ but it is more along the lines of being a man *CASTLE*. It is spacious and _in the_ comfort zone to say the least; and absolutely brilliant to say the most. A perfect home for your Woo gear.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_very creative to put your gears in the fire place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe he misunderstood the term "burn in"!?


----------



## Pepsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you gentlemen finding the Sophia Electric™ 274B to be a worthy upgrade? I'm just delving into the tube world and I look forward to the tweaking part. My AKG's are supposed to already have a nice soundstage so what additional trait does this mod provide? Thanks._

 

In my opinion it is a very necessary upgrade PERIOD.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for posting the pictures of your man cave--and, unfortunately, I will have to contradict you ever so slightly on this matter: It's not, as you say, a man cave but it is more along the lines of being a man *CASTLE*. It is spacious and in the comfort zone to say the least; and absolutely brilliant to say the most. A perfect home for your Woo gear._

 

Thank you kindly. I put a lot of time into getting it to my liking. I started by ripping out carpet and putting in real slate floors.....which is not good for an acoustic environment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have several acoustic panels and bass traps that will be installed shortly to help with the sonic shortcomings. This hobby is a never ending process and I'm enjoying the trip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, what other tubes should I look at purchasing besides the aforementioned? I might as well hurt my wallet all at one time.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe he misunderstood the term "burn in"!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL...Beautiful man cave Doing...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe he misunderstood the term "burn in"!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

LOL..... Burn baby burn! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I perfer old fashion wood burner though


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL..... Burn baby burn! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I perfer old fashion wood burner though_

 

LOL, Well............it was only a small "burn in" with candles. I've never had a real fire in the fireplace yet.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just of out curiosity, What kind of sources do you guys pair your Woos with?_

 

My signature is self explanatory.


----------



## Modena

I'm considering having a WA5 built. 

 I do want to have a powered sub, and since I'm building, how would you suggest I handle this desire?

 What upgrades are "felt", and worth the money (given it's already a fantastic unit)?


----------



## tosehee

PS Audio DL 3 for me. I've been using Ref1, but don't think they are worth the cost, imo. I am sure others may have different views.


----------



## punkaroo

I'm still waiting on the Sophia Princess. What tubes do you guys recommend for a more forward sound? I love my HF-2s, but I feel like they're just slightly laid back now through the WA6. 

 Prickley Peete has recommended RCA black plate O getters (50's) or Raytheons. Which ones? And do you have any more suggestions?

 Thank you


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm considering having a WA5 built. 

 I do want to have a powered sub, and since I'm building, how would you suggest I handle this desire?

 What upgrades are "felt", and worth the money (given it's already a fantastic unit)?_

 

Premimum parts upgrade package.
 (Parts upgrade are intended for amplifier purchase, not to be sold on a standalone basis.)


 We carefully selected the best possible audiophile graded parts that bring the ultimate performance from the amplifier.


 V-Cap input coupling caps. Matched pair 0.15uf/600V 
 Jensen voltage filtering caps, 220uf/450V 
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/160V 
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/16V 
 Blackgate bypass (300B cathode) caps, 470uf/160V 
 Mills load resistors (300B), 750 ohms, 50W 
 Mills load resistors (6SN7), 22 kohms, 12W 
 Mills cathod resistors (6SN7), 7.5 kohms, 5W 
 Kiwame cathod resistors (6SN7), 330 ohms, 2W 
 Kiwame cathod resistors (300B), 330 kohms, 2W 
 Jensen decoupling caps, 100u/500V 

 Only if you can swallow the price


----------



## Modena

"GULP!"

 I think I can swing it, if it makes a difference. That's why I ask. I am leaning towards that upgrade, but wanted to be sure.


----------



## Seamaster

Cap upgrade is pretty critical for me. Better caps will move your amp in a different leaguge. Just like Big Poppa's Woo 3+


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still waiting on the Sophia Princess. What tubes do you guys recommend for a more forward sound? I love my HF-2s, but I feel like they're just slightly laid back now through the WA6. 

 Prickley Peete has recommended RCA black plate O getters (50's) or Raytheons. Which ones? And do you have any more suggestions?

 Thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

See how well you like the Princess, imo the RCA big bottle silver top circa 1963 but with any nos its a crap shoot. I do have the Raytheons/GE.

 Also why don't you get your BD-83 upgraded (by oppo) to the BD-83SE, for two ch stereo analog its wonderful. The stereo downmix for use with the 2ch stereo analog and headphones for movies is amazing. 

 ss


----------



## hifidk

I received my WA6 w/ PDPS mod. It came with 5AR4/GZ34 (International Servicemaster?) and RCA 6DE7 (with shields in the middle) tubes. They sound great with JH13 Pro but not so much with HE5. I just can't get enough volume/dynamic with HE5. I also think that GS1000 sounds better on Raptor than with Woo. I am getting Sophia Princess pretty soon and will see how they sound. 

 Is there anyone who use (or tried) WA6 with HE5? Is it normal that I can't get enough volume? make it loud enough? 

 Anyway, good to finally join Woo club!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my WA6 w/ PDPS mod. It came with 5AR4/GZ34 (International Servicemaster?) and RCA 6DE7 (with shields in the middle) tubes. They sound great with JH13 Pro but not so much with HE5. I just can't get enough volume/dynamic with HE5. I also think that GS1000 sounds better on Raptor than with Woo. I am getting Sophia Princess pretty soon and will see how they sound. 

 Is there anyone who use (or tried) WA6 with HE5? Is it normal that I can't get enough volume? make it loud enough? 

 Anyway, good to finally join Woo club!_

 

I am using a PS Audio DLIII DAC with a fairly strong output level, and with maxed WA6 and Sophia Princess 274B rectifier tube I get enough volume with my HE-5. It's not extremely loud like with my ZDT, EF5, SAC KH1000 or Single Power Square Wave XL amps (or borrow Solo SRG II), but it loud enough for me. How do you have the impedance switch on the back of the amp set, and what is your music source?


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using a PS Audio DLIII DAC with a fairly strong output level, and with maxed WA6 and Sophia Princess 274B rectifier tube I get enough volume with my HE-5. It's not extremely loud like with my ZDT, EF5, SAC KH1000 or Single Power Square Wave XL amps (or borrow Solo SRG II), but it loud enough for me. How do you have the impedance switch on the back of the amp set, and what is your music source?_

 

I turn the switch to the high impedance setting on the back of the amp. My source is humble D10 via USB to line-out. I have turned the volume knob all the way to the max but I still think that the HE5 isn't loud enough. Of course, with EF5, they had more than enough volume. Does it really matter what tubes I use?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I turn the switch to the high impedance setting on the back of the amp. My source is humble D10 via USB to line-out. I have turned the volume knob all the way to the max but I still think that the HE5 isn't loud enough. Of course, with EF5, they had more than enough volume. Does it really matter what tubes I use?_

 

Switch the WA6 to low impedance for HE-5. Also, the D10 line out is too weak. Try the D10 headphone out into WA6 and use it as a preamp, and turn up the volume in low gain to about 3 or 4 o'clock.


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Switch the WA6 to low impedance for HE-5. Also, the D10 line out is too weak. Try the D10 headphone out into WA6 and use it as a preamp, and turn up the volume in low gain to about 3 or 4 o'clock._

 

I think it is better than before. But I still need to turn the volume knob to the max on WA6. I wonder if it would have negative effect on the amp in a long-run? Nonetheless, the amp is very smooth... I like


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is better than before. But I still need to turn the volume knob to the max on WA6. I wonder if it would have negative effect on the amp in a long-run? Nonetheless, the amp is very smooth... I like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

there should be no ill-effects in the long run, when it comes to the amplifier. remember the amp is outputting the same amount of power at all times, and the gain is fixed - all you are doing is inputting a stronger signal


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there should be no ill-effects in the long run, when it comes to the amplifier. remember the amp is outputting the same amount of power at all times, and the gain is fixed - all you are doing is inputting a stronger signal_

 

Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## keithhr1

I've been using a heed canamp for the last 3 years for late night, not to bother anyone listening. However, I have a hankering for a different sound although the heed is fine. Question is, in another thread I was advised that the best bang for my buck would be the Woo WA6 with the Sophia Electric™ 274B upgrade. I'm hoping someone can give me an idea what the sound difference in the heed and Woo WA6 will be with that one upgrade? what is it going to sound like for me? guesses are ok to or informed estimates, I am ready to do this, and there are soooooo many amp manufacturers out there.


----------



## tosehee

HeadphoneAddict.

 Do you happen to know the output power of W6SE vs. WA22?

 I read W6SE is 3 times stronger than W6, but not sure where WA22 falls into..


----------



## Redcarmoose

I was completely wrong about the Woo Audio 5 LE sound. Even on the Woo website stated in the reviews that the W5le was a little lacking in bass. I have 600 hrs burn in and have tested some groups of headphones trying to find bass. I would have been happy to just have the 5le the way it was for the rest of my life. The mids were just that magic.


 Then the unthinkable happened!
 First was the addition of Denon AH-D 7000 headphones. These were forward and bass heavy in sound. Wow, now I have bass but maybe a little too much. The lower mids were muddy and there was a little detail both in the super highs and lows. I have tried a couple of sets of interconnects and thought that they made a small change but nothing major.

 Then..........................Virtual Dynamics Master Series RCA interconnects
 Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard "Fatboy" Power Cord
 Electra Glide Audio Epiphany X2 Power Cord




 My rig has 55% better performance. This is really hard for me to believe as I tried a a couple of interconnects but I was not using the right ones. The pure silver was just too bright. So for the last year I have been stupidly using Monster entry level interconnects as I thought that no cable could change things. Now I have everything, the cables did a complete makeover of the sound. There is detail in the highs, there is detail in the lows. The bass not only has just tone but tone and character, the bass has dynamic texture. What I did not come to realize was my rig lacked speed also. I had heard speed before but it was always in the type of rig that had no bass. I for some reason placed that kind of speed in non bass performance rigs.


 The rig now has the wicked combo of speed and bass. Head stage and and a total phase correction of sound. The cds which I always play with a reserve due to loving vinyl even sound great. Ok so even if the cds sound great I guess I have to climb down off my anti-CD soapbox! Sh@# I guess what I'm saying is my life has changed audio wise. The thing that changed it was the last thing I thought it would be? How is that? You read everything test and play stuff for a years?
 The truth is that you don"t know what you don't know. That is what all of us really don't know. Of course!


 I will be at the OC meet on the 30th, hopefully. If anyone wants to here this set-up. 



 Equipment list......
 Sony MDR-CD-870 Headphones
 AKG k701 Headphones X2
 Denon AH-D 7000 Headphones
 Headphone Amp Inventory
 Woo Audio 3 Headphone Amplifier
 Woo Audio 5 LE Headphone Amplifier
 Nuforce Icon USB Desktop Amplifier And Headphone Amplifier
 Source Inventory
 VPI Scout Turntable
 Clearaudio Aurum Classic Phonograph Cartridge
 Stanton 310 Phono Preamplifier
 PS•1 Phono Preamplifier and HC•1b Dual Mono Power Supply by Monolithic
 Rega Planet CD Player


----------



## Seamaster

I notice Woo amps are very sensitive to cable change.


----------



## Redcarmoose

OMG!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict.

 Do you happen to know the output power of W6SE vs. WA22?

 I read W6SE is 3 times stronger than W6, but not sure where WA22 falls into.._

 

I believe I read somewhere that the WA22 put out 2 watts into 32 ohms when using the higher power Sylvania 7236 tubes. I read somewhere that the WA6 is about 380 mw @ 32 ohm, so that would make WA6SE is about 1.2 watts. 

 The WA6 gets very loud with 32 ohm Grado and 300 ohm HD600/800. I can play 600 ohm AKG K240M at moderately loud levels but not nearly as loud as HD600/800. But, the WA6 is slightly underpowered with HE-5 but very useable and good sounding, it just doesn't have a lot of headroom to go louder (I think 25-32 ohm and 87 dB/mw). It's also fairly well underpowered with K1000 (I think 120 ohm 88 dB/mw). WA22 had more power than you could ever use for Grado and HD600/800, and just enough for HE-5 and K1000 at RMAF in October. I have very little experience with WA6SE.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I notice Woo amps are very sensitive to cable change._

 

Agreed. Even when changing from my old Monster i200 rca-rca to my new Simple Physics rca-rca (both aren't high end at all, obviously), I've noticed a significant change in the SQ (monster one is thicker/bit congested vs SP one more bright/clear/open). And I've never really been a cable believer in the past either. Haven't really noticed this before with any of my other amps as much.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

I'm about to order a WA6 and I'm just wondering how I should ask Jack to orient the rectifier tube socket? I'd like for the EML 5U4G to be oriented in such a fashion that its best looking part faces the front. I'm going to assume I should ask him to orient the socket so that the EML logo on the tube faces the front?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm about to order a WA6 and I'm just wondering how I should ask Jack to orient the rectifier tube socket? I'd like for the EML 5U4G to be oriented in such a fashion that its best looking part faces the front. I'm going to assume I should ask him to orient the socket so that the EML logo on the tube faces the front?_

 

That's is very good call if this not going to affect signal path. WA22's sockets all piont one direction, which make front (best looking part) of tubes all over the place.


----------



## h.rav




----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe I read somewhere that the WA22 put out 2 watts into 32 ohms when using the higher power Sylvania 7236 tubes. I read somewhere that the WA6 is about 380 mw @ 32 ohm, so that would make WA6SE is about 1.2 watts. 

 The WA6 gets very loud with 32 ohm Grado and 300 ohm HD600/800. I can play 600 ohm AKG K240M at moderately loud levels but not nearly as loud as HD600/800. But, the WA6 is slightly underpowered with HE-5 but very useable and good sounding, it just doesn't have a lot of headroom to go louder (I think 25-32 ohm and 87 dB/mw). It's also fairly well underpowered with K1000 (I think 120 ohm 88 dB/mw). WA22 had more power than you could ever use for Grado and HD600/800, and just enough for HE-5 and K1000 at RMAF in October. I have very little experience with WA6SE._

 

Thx for the info. HE-5 is on my radar, so it's good to know that WA22 can drive it well.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_








_

 

Very pretty, how'd you request it?

 Do I just ask him to orient the socket so that the EML logo faces the front?

*
 Oh, and opinions on silver vs black looking better IRL?*


----------



## Suprfly2k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pepsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just of out curiosity, What kind of sources do you guys pair your Woos with?_

 






 ClearAudio Performance with a Maestro catridge and a Nova Phenomena II Phono Stage.


----------



## Suprfly2k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm kind of embarrassed to say that I *believe* the best way to connect my WA6 is from the tape out on my preamp? I've never had a headphone amp before. Am I wrong in assuming this? That way, I can listen to cd's and my iPod via a Wadia transport/Musical Fidelity through my Emotiva RSP-2. I know I could just connect the WA6 directly to my cd player, but I want to be able to switch inputs. I guess the signal will only be as clean as the signal path thru the preamp.
_

 

If you look at my photo above, you will see a small component upon which my K701's sit. It is a switch made by Lloyd Peppard at Maple Tree Audio. 

 I was in the same situation as you. I wanted to be able to switch sources and outputs and have my sources connected directly to my WA6SE. The switch does the trick. Just call Lloyd and tell him what you want and he'll build it.

 When I'm not listening to my Woo, I'm listening to my MC60's...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_








_

 

I hate you


----------



## Seamaster

Very nice lighting for the picture by the way. Jack could use this picture on his website.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Redcarmoose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was completely wrong about the Woo Audio 5 LE sound. Even on the Woo website stated in the reviews that the W5le was a little lacking in bass. I have 600 hrs burn in and have tested some groups of headphones trying to find bass. I would have been happy to just have the 5le the way it was for the rest of my life. The mids were just that magic._

 

Did you have any upgrades done when you ordered your WA5LE ?

 What tubes are you using?

 Yes the Denon D-7000 will give you a lot of bass, but still lacking in mids and out of head soundstage. I find the Senn HD-800 with the HD-800 Cardas Cable to have very nice bass both in the low floor and impact, with my WA6SE max. 

 I ask these questions because I am now looking a the WA5LE. 

 ss


----------



## TheAudioDude

The D7000s w/ my WA22 are great, but I would admit that the midrange would come out a bit more. Same with soundstage. But hey, that's why they invented tube rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sadly, I don't feel too much like listening to music right now because I'm in some pain...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/ty...vening-469397/

 I may be going back within the next 10 minutes since one bandage is getting a pretty big spot of blood.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D7000s w/ my WA22 are great, but I would admit that the midrange would come out a bit more. Same with soundstage. But hey, that's why they invented tube rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sadly, I don't feel too much like listening to music right now because I'm in some pain...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/ty...vening-469397/

 I may be going back within the next 10 minutes since one bandage is getting a pretty big spot of blood.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why are you trying to barllet dancing to your car in the 1st place? Welcom to the handycaps club bro, I thought I am the only one get unlucky this year. I am still hopping...... and looks like will keep hopping for another two months. But at least I walk without cane now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, which really improved the sound quality of my amp.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you have any upgrades done when you ordered your WA5LE ?

 What tubes are you using?

 Yes the Denon D-7000 will give you a lot of bass, but still lacking in mids and out of head soundstage. I find the Senn HD-800 with the HD-800 Cardas Cable to have very nice bass both in the low floor and impact, with my WA6SE max. 

 I ask these questions because I am now looking a the WA5LE. 

 ss_

 







 My rig was ordered stock but with a preamp out which I do not yet use. After all I have done the tude upgrades may be the last thing I do. The tubes are the basic ones they come with. So far I really dig the Woo 5LE with the AH-D 7000. Something about the way the Denons are so easy to drive helps the Woo get to the sound I was looking for. The Denons add a bass to the sound signature that seems to make them perfect. The cables and powercords then tune it even better. I use a crappy Rega $450 Planet CD player and an entry level VPI as sources and am pretty happy.


----------



## Seamaster

Or may be a good rack, and listening chair.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Redcarmoose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 My rig was ordered stock but with a preamp out which I do not yet use. After all I have done the tude upgrades may be the last thing I do. The tubes are the basic ones they come with. So far I really dig the Woo 5LE with the AH-D 7000. Something about the way the Denons are so easy to drive helps the Woo get to the sound I was looking for. The Denons add a bass to the sound signature that seems to make them perfect. The cables and powercords then tune it even better. I use a crappy Rega $450 Planet CD player and an entry level VPI as sources and am pretty happy._

 

What's with the giant elephant trunk coming out of the back of the amp?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's with the giant elephant trunk coming out of the back of the WA6SE?_

 

It is a stock build Woo 5LE with an Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard "Fatboy" Power Cord.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Redcarmoose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a stock build Woo 5LE with an Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard "Fatboy" Power Cord._

 

I have WA6SE stuck in my head, weird.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Redcarmoose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 My rig was ordered stock but with a preamp out which I do not yet use. After all I have done the tude upgrades may be the last thing I do. The tubes are the basic ones they come with. So far I really dig the Woo 5LE with the AH-D 7000. Something about the way the Denons are so easy to drive helps the Woo get to the sound I was looking for. The Denons add a bass to the sound signature that seems to make them perfect. The cables and powercords then tune it even better. I use a crappy Rega $450 Planet CD player and an entry level VPI as sources and am pretty happy._

 

Very pretty.

 I was talking to Jack and he suggested the Shugang 50-Years Treasure 300B matched pair, to increase the bass of the W5LE. 

 I use a Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition as my source player for all formats of music and video. 
 I also use a pair of King Cobra interconnects (1M), that way I can take advantage of the ground lead of my WA6SE. 
 I use the black sand violet Z1 power cords (1M) for both my source and amp. However with these power cords it probably is best to use a PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner or something like that. 

 What I find to work the best is the shortest run for both interconnects and power cords. And also running my source directly to my amp, its the purest way. 

 ss


----------



## Modena

SS,

 Are you doing the Premium parts upgrade as well?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SS,

 Are you doing the Premium parts upgrade as well?_

 

Yes If I get it I will do the Premium parts upgrade but not the Teflon tube sockets upgrade. I may also have Jack use a Alps RK50 attenuator. And I am checking into the Phone jacks as well because of what I am hearing now using a Switchcraft N112B jack.

 ss


----------



## Modena

Jack suggested the 300B Treasures to me as well. So Treasures and Premium. I have read where others have replaced the atenuator as well. Interesting.

 Please post back as to what you order. I would be very interested in your final build.


----------



## Leny

Hi guys, I've not read the whole thread but just wanted to say that a friend had a Woo and was happy with it. The only thing poor with it was the volume control that was biased to the left channel at low volume (i.e. more level in the left ear than the right ear). Once he had replaced it with a better one (TDK I think he said) he was very happy with it. He only sold it when he bought a custom amp.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Leny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, I've not read the whole thread but just wanted to say that a friend had a Woo and was happy with it. The only thing poor with it was the volume control that was biased to the left channel at low volume (i.e. more level in the left ear than the right ear). Once he had replaced it with a better one (TDK I think he said) he was very happy with it. He only sold it when he bought a custom amp._

 

Read the entire thread before making any post.

 j/k.



 Good to hear that your friends are or were happy with Woo amps.


----------



## Leny

If only I had the time to do 145 pages.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Leny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If only I had the time to do 145 pages.

_

 

Reading through this thread is also very risky for one's wallet


----------



## jc9394

Not at all but your wallet go on a diet for a long long time.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have WA6SE stuck in my head, weird._

 


 I know all about it, obsessive headphone amp mania!


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading through this thread is also very risky for one's wallet_

 







 Be aware.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very pretty.

 I was talking to Jack and he suggested the Shugang 50-Years Treasure 300B matched pair, to increase the bass of the W5LE. 

 I use a Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition as my source player for all formats of music and video. 
 I also use a pair of King Cobra interconnects (1M), that way I can take advantage of the ground lead of my WA6SE. 
 I use the black sand violet Z1 power cords (1M) for both my source and amp. However with these power cords it probably is best to use a PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner or something like that. 

 What I find to work the best is the shortest run for both interconnects and power cords. And also running my source directly to my amp, its the purest way. 

 ss_

 




 I have to agree that that 50 year Treasures are a way to go. I would note my feelings are also to replace the other tubes in addition to the 300bs. I may just replace them first. There is something very cool to me about getting great sound out of sub $200.00 300b sets. My goal will be to replace the support tubes first then the 300bs. Maybe what Jack is saying is that the WA 5 LE will have even more bass for all headphones even k701s with the 50 year Treasures. I really love the synergy now with the AH-D 7000s and do not want more bass.



 I'm going with a power conditioner purchase also but it is really complicated and do not want to go into it now. All I can say is I can now hear the power grid change from 10:00pm to 11:30pm, then change again from 12:00 midnight to 4:30am. So yes, power conditioning is a must at this level of resolution.


----------



## tosehee

I have 4 WE 300B in NOS that I stopped using since I spend more time with headphone set.. I might have to put it on ebay with so many W5 users here.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 4 WE 300B in NOS that I stopped using since I spend more time with headphone set.. I might have to put it on ebay with so many W5 users here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Are those late models from the early 2000s? I heard they may make em again? Are they vintage black bases? I like WEs but I read the Treasures have em beat. WEs are so bullet-proof they droped them into the Atlantic for the first Transatlantic telephone line! If they are good enough for that they must last!


----------



## Modena

How can I run a powered sub off the AW5? Has anyone had jack put an out on theirs?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes If I get it I will do the Premium parts upgrade but not the Teflon tube sockets upgrade. I may also have Jack use a Alps RK50 attenuator. And I am checking into the Phone jacks as well because of what I am hearing now using a Switchcraft N112B jack.

 ss_

 

Maybe I've missed something here but why are you not getting Teflon tube sockets upgrade?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just looking at the thread on the EML 274B and SP 274B and had a question. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/emi...5/#post4618513

 Here Jon L says that you shouldn't buy a 274B for a 300B amp. Can someone confirm this. It is an upgrade tube option on the WA5 and WA5LE page. I bought them directly with the WA5-LE and cannot imagine that Jack would recommend a tube that shouldn't be used with it. 

 I guess this means I should look into getting a pair of 5U4G's. I just know if it is worth paying $400+ for a pair of EML Mesh 5U4G's - even though they are pretty sweet looking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any other recommendations for new or NOS 5U4G's for the WA5-LE that don't cost that much?_

 

If I get a WA6 LE i will get a pair of EML Mesh 5U4G, Treasure 300B matched pair (A grade) and Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT (A grade).

 Are you still getting a small hum? My WA6SE max is very quit, maybe I should stick with my WA6SE.

 ss


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you still getting a small hum? My WA6SE max is very quit, maybe I should stick with my WA6SE.
 ss_

 

My WA6SE Maxxed is dead quiet too.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I've missed something here but why are you not getting Teflon tube sockets upgrade?_

 

Don't think that would help anything. I have the standard sockets in my WA6SE and really like them. I would much rather get better tubes and of course the parts upgrade.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't think that would help anything. I have the standard sockets in my WA6SE and really like them. I would much rather get better tubes and of course the parts upgrade.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

For me every upgrade serves its purpose and especially for someone like me who lives across the atlantic to send in the amp at later time gonna cost, this is personal though.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA6SE Maxxed is dead quiet too._

 

Yes the WA6SE is a wonderful amp. I have the HD-800 and with my ELM 274B solid plate along with my 6EW7's silver top big bottle circa 1963 its a real winner. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me every upgrade serves its purpose and especially for someone like me who lives across the atlantic to send in the amp at later time gonna cost, this is personal though._

 

Yes I can understand your point. But things like sockets, pots and phone jacks are fairly easy to replace. And if you can't do it I am sure there is a TV repair shop not far from you that can install these types of things. Just buy the part online and your good to go.

 ss


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't think that would help anything. I have the standard sockets in my WA6SE and really like them. I would much rather get better tubes and of course the parts upgrade.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A very good move to forgo the Teflon; it's not that necessary unless, of course, you're going to be rolling tubes 20 times a day like Seamaster! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then again....


----------



## Seamaster

Well, try 21 times


----------



## sillysally

After reviewing many different brands and models of headphone amps, reading 100s of post's I still come back to the Woo amps. The one constant thing is there seems to be nobody that slams the Woo amps. Yes there other amp makers and some folks like those amps better because of there likes and dislikes, but always the Woo is a top contender. 
 imo the Woo is the safest bet that you will get what you want in a tube amp, and not just end up with some new gimmick that sounds good on paper but in the long haul really isn't. 

 ss


----------



## DoingOK

I'm in my second excruciating week of a 4 week wait for my WA6. I did receive the headphone stand from Woo Audio and I am very impressed. If their build quality is the same with the amplifier then I will be very happy.

 New home for my 702's:


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm finally going to be ordreing my WA6 in the next day or two. Was planning to go all stock, but I've been thinking about asking Jack to make a couple of pointed upgrades. I'd really appreciate hearing some opinions on this. If you had, say an extra 100-150 dollars to do just a few of the parts upgrades, which ones would you pick? I'm going at this from best bang for the buck point of view. Having gone from generic to Auricap capacitors in my desktop amp I can attest my ears CAN hear a difference between parts, so I thought maybe I'd go for a couple of the Blackgates but the question is which ones because I don't want to do the complete parts package. It costs nearly as much as the amp does afterall and I'm concerned about diminishing returns. You can't exactly listen after each individual part changes to study the significance......

 Advice greatly appreciated!


----------



## kunalraiker

I will definately order the Sophia tube rectifier, its one major upgrade that affects the sound.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will definately order the Sophia tube rectifier, its one major upgrade that affects the sound._

 

+1. Anyway that is the only option for the WA6. 

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will definately order the Sophia tube rectifier, its one major upgrade that affects the sound._

 

This is in the cards. Not immediately..... I want to get a feel for the stock sound first, but I do plan to. I also have a couple of 5V4Gs I grabbed off eBay for cheap I want to try first as well. I'm more concerned with part upgrades because you don't have to ship the amp back to Jack to change rectifiers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know the maxed option isn't out there for the regular WA6, but I've head of people specially requesting that Jack use other parts in the build? If I'm mistaken and this is only being done in the WA6SE then I guess I have one less thing to worry about. I'm just not ready for the SE, either in terms of cost or space left on my computer desk to place the second chassis.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is in the cards. Not immediately..... I want to get a feel for the stock sound first, but I do plan to. I also have a couple of 5V4Gs I grabbed off eBay for cheap I want to try first as well. I'm more concerned with part upgrades because you don't have to ship the amp back to Jack to change rectifiers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know the maxed option isn't out there for the regular WA6, but I've head of people specially requesting that Jack use other parts in the build? If I'm mistaken and this is only being done in the WA6SE then I guess I have one less thing to worry about. I'm just not ready for the SE, either in terms of cost or space left on my computer desk to place the second chassis._

 

Wise choice... I got mine fully maxxed out as I lives across the Atlantic and it is too costly to return amp to Jack for any upgrades..


----------



## Pepsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm finally going to be ordreing my WA6 in the next day or two. Was planning to go all stock, but I've been thinking about asking Jack to make a couple of pointed upgrades. I'd really appreciate hearing some opinions on this. If you had, say an extra 100-150 dollars to do just a few of the parts upgrades, which ones would you pick? I'm going at this from best bang for the buck point of view. Having gone from generic to Auricap capacitors in my desktop amp I can attest my ears CAN hear a difference between parts, so I thought maybe I'd go for a couple of the Blackgates but the question is which ones because I don't want to do the complete parts package. It costs nearly as much as the amp does afterall and I'm concerned about diminishing returns. You can't exactly listen after each individual part changes to study the significance......

 Advice greatly appreciated!_

 

If you had about 150 bucks extra, adding the Sophia Princess would be a great upgrade alone.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm in my second excruciating week of a 4 week wait for my WA6. I did receive the headphone stand from Woo Audio and I am very impressed. If their build quality is the same with the amplifier then I will be very happy.

 New home for my 702's:




_

 

Be prepared to add another 2 weeks to that wait. I remembered some members including myself waiting that long. I think when i got my old WA6 it almost that long.


----------



## sillysally

Pepsi.

 How do you like you WA5 with your HD-800s?
 How much better is your WA5 over your WA6SE? Is it worth it.

 ss


----------



## Pepsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pepsi.

 How do you like you WA5 with your HD-800s?
 How much better is your WA5 over your WA6SE? Is it worth it.

 ss_

 

The set up is fantastic, senns pair up with the Woos very well, and in this case, they were truly close to flawless. I would say to you that compared to the WA6SE maxxed, there was a magnificent upgrade with my 800s upon switching between the two, on the contrary the 650s didn't show much of a significant difference in my honest opinion. The WA5's amping abilities is truly amazing, it is indeed overkill, My main focus for getting them was not to only drive my 800's but to drive speakers as well, which i am currently working on financially =P. All in all, i would state the upgrade is only worth the money if you plan on getting cans to match the amps enormous power. If you were planning on going with mid class cans, the WA6SE is definitely the more plausible choice. I would even recommend the standard WA6, but once you go with the SE's, you'll never go back.


----------



## Modena

Great comments.


----------



## Seamaster

I would ask jack for cap upgrade. Yes Sophia is a must too, but it can be added on later when you have money at any time. I would ask Jack what values those caps are and send your own to him.


----------



## Modena

Why not just do the Premium Parts Upgrade, and add tubes later. Doing the internal upgrades is very difficult later.


----------



## sillysally

Thanks for your reply Pepsi.

 Yes I was thinking the same, the HD-650s would not do the WA5 LE justice. Yes I have a pair of HD-650s along with my HD-800 and the Denon D7000. 
 I do have a WA6SE max, so that's why I was asking you about your upgrade from the 6SE to the WA5 and using the HD-800s. 
 Did you have the HD-800 when you had your WA6SE max ? Why I ask is because of what you said about the upgrade, I am guessing you are saying using the HD-800s on both the WA6SE and the WA5 there is a "magnificent upgrade" with the WA5 over the WA6SE.
 Also did you get the parts upgrade with your WA5?

 Thanks.

 ss


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply Pepsi.

 Yes I was thinking the same, the HD-650s would not do the WA5 LE justice. Yes I have a pair of HD-650s along with my HD-800 and the Denon D7000. 
 I do have a WA6SE max, so that's why I was asking you about your upgrade from the 6SE to the WA5 and using the HD-800s. 
 Did you have the HD-800 when you had your WA6SE max ? Why I ask is because of what you said about the upgrade, I am guessing you are saying using the HD-800s on both the WA6SE and the WA5 there is a "magnificent upgrade" with the WA5 over the WA6SE.
 Also did you get the parts upgrade with your WA5?

 Thanks.

 ss_

 


 I personally think that anything above $1k+ in the same type of amp, the upgrade is minor, not a night and day difference, even with $1000 upgrade.

 But, that's just my $0.02.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally think that anything above $1k+ in the same type of amp, the upgrade is minor, not a night and day difference, even with $1000 upgrade.

 But, that's just my $0.02._

 

I may be able to prove you worng after Dan's recap


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may be able to prove you worng after Dan's recap_

 

I'd like to be proven wrong.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally think that anything above $1k+ in the same type of amp, the upgrade is minor, not a night and day difference, even with $1000 upgrade.

 But, that's just my $0.02._

 

You could be right. However the WA5LE is a 300B amp so if I go with it I would use these tubes.
 Treasure 300B pairremium Grade A 
 Treasure CV181 pairremium Grade A
 EML 5U4G mesh pair: 

 As for the upgrade in parts or what some call mods. I would think that Seamaster will hear a nice difference, and he is using Dan that's a smart move. 

 ss


----------



## tosehee

Treasure CV181 is not that great from what I read. I don't have a personal experience with them. I have 4 NOS WE 300B, so.. 

 I just took the deliver of EML 5u4g a few days ago, and it's both physically and sonically impressive tube. But against, the other well known tubes, they aren't night and day difference.. Again, to my ear..


----------



## El_Doug

Sillysally, have you considered the KR 300b Balloons over the Treasures?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Treasure CV181 is not that great from what I read. I don't have a personal experience with them. I have 4 NOS WE 300B, so.. 

 I just took the deliver of EML 5u4g a few days ago, and it's both physically and sonically impressive tube. But against, the other well known tubes, they aren't night and day difference.. Again, to my ear.._

 

I'm ordering an EML 5U4G soon, once it's back in stock at TubesUSA. Have you noticed any other differences with it over the stock tubes? I'm hoping for/expecting a relatively medium change with my headphones, mainly to add a bit of smoothness and larger soundtage.


----------



## Pepsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply Pepsi.

 Yes I was thinking the same, the HD-650s would not do the WA5 LE justice. Yes I have a pair of HD-650s along with my HD-800 and the Denon D7000. 
 I do have a WA6SE max, so that's why I was asking you about your upgrade from the 6SE to the WA5 and using the HD-800s. 
 Did you have the HD-800 when you had your WA6SE max ? Why I ask is because of what you said about the upgrade, I am guessing you are saying using the HD-800s on both the WA6SE and the WA5 there is a "magnificent upgrade" with the WA5 over the WA6SE.
 Also did you get the parts upgrade with your WA5?

 Thanks.

 ss_

 

Correct, i did possess the HD800 before the upgrade to the WA5, it wasn't until several months later when i decided the cans needed "more." No i did not get the upgrade, before making my decision i wanted to audition them for myself, i tried the stock WA5 with the teflon tube socket upgrade and sophia princess upgrade(the same WA5 i have now), and i got a chance to listen to the fully upgraded WA5 2 weeks later. I really wished i could audition them both on the spot to really compare but unfortunately i had to base it off my memory. Even till now though, listening through the fully upgraded amp, my opinion still stands that the upgrade isn't worth the extra 1k, but that's just me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

After some hard thinking I ended up ordering a stock WA6. It seems a better fit price/performance wise for my current and planned near future headphones. If I end up with cans that cost more than the amp, such as the new T1, maybe I'll take a look at selling and upgrading to a WA6SE at that time.

 Now comes the wait.......... the website says shipment within 1 week. I assume that is a stock message and should expect something more like 4-6 right?


----------



## Seamaster

KR 300b Balloons is one of the best current production tubes I heard (not me). EML 5u4g need very long time burn-in. Also Emssion labs began to reduce their tube glass size. The new shipment you get form TubesUSA MAY looker smaller than early tubes like mine.


----------



## Seamaster

one week? Or one weed? Ha ha...... just kidding


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now comes the wait.......... the website says shipment within 1 week. I assume that is a stock message and should expect something more like 4-6 right?_

 

Yep.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_KR 300b Balloons is one of the best current production tubes I heard (not me). EML 5u4g need very long time burn-in. Also Emssion labs began to reduce their tube glass size. The new shipment you get form TubesUSA MAY looker smaller than early tubes like mine._

 

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I want a big tube. Wanna trade?


----------



## Seamaster

How big/long is your tube? Let me know. Yes, bigger is better in US, haha.


----------



## Seamaster

Here is a ture story that really funny.

 I emailed EML:

 "Please tell me how different in sound and signature between your 5U4G mesh plate, 5U4G solid plate, and 274B mesh plate......? Because they look drfferent in your website picture......Thank for the help......"

 EML replied

 "We are very sorry are not able to help you...... We only make tubes...... don't know what the difference in sound between those tubes......"

 (What......really......?? in my head)

 "We have began to reduce the size of the glass, inside are all the same. 274B is one of the earlist to start with"


----------



## slayerizer

anyone here used WA6 with HD650 and HD800 models? If so, what are the main differences in sound that you found?

 I'm using HD650 with my WA6 amp


----------



## bdr529

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a ture story that really funny.

 I emailed EML:

 "Please tell me how different in sound and signature between your 5U4G mesh plate, 5U4G solid plate, and 274B mesh plate......? Because they look drfferent in your website picture......Thank for the help......"

 EML replied

 "We are very sorry are not able to help you...... We only make tubes...... don't know what the difference in sound between those tubes......"

 (What.........?? in my head)

 "We have began to reduce the size of the glass, inside are all the same. 274B is one of the earlist to start with"_

 

To be honest I am glad they don't make claims to how they should sound. You can tell how they perform based on their technical data.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To be honest I am glad they don't make claims to how they should sound. You can tell how they perform based on their technical data._

 

True. But, the reply seems to suggest that gentleman from the EML is clueless about their own product..


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True. But, the reply seems to suggest that gentleman from the EML is clueless about their own product.._

 

When I called Sophia, a middle age female pick up the phone, seens she was just a random person in the company. She told me right off the back how Princess mesh will sound compare to their soild plate of same tube...... I was asking for a technician.........she was right........ I felt shamed, and should not prejudge people.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True. But, the reply seems to suggest that gentleman from the EML is clueless about their own product._

 

Be assured, this is a completely absurd rumor!
  Quote:


 From EML:
 "Our target: We want to save the HiFi world from having to use solid state devices! We will supply the *best sounding triodes*, with the highest possible mechanical and electrical quality." 
 

A company which is committed to such a philosophy, knows very well how good their product is. Anyway, the question in the mentioned email wasn't very intelligent, therefore one should not take it too seriously.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well I agree with EML, I wouldn't expect them to say it is lush sounding with deep bass... because how can you even test that? In one person's system, it may be lush sounding, but in another's persons setup it may be the opposite. It's kind of like asking Toyota how well their car will handle on ice... it completely depends on the person driving it. They can give you a general idea from a technical/mechanical standpoint, but they probably would be wary of saying it'll handle like a dream.


----------



## Seamaster

I just found it was very funny, that is all. I knew Toyota Camry don't handle well on the highway


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just found it was very funny, that is all. I knew Toyota Camry don't handle well on the highway_

 

Haha yeah, it was funny too.

 How well do you handle on a snowboard? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About the same as how I handle on the ice?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW my dad listened to my WA22 a couple of days ago and he really liked it. I played some Rolling Stones for him. He was surprised to see tubes, he said he hasn't seen them since he was a kid!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha yeah, it was funny too.

 BTW my dad listened to my WA22 a couple of days ago and he really liked it. I played some Rolling Stones for him. He was surprised to see tubes, he said he hasn't seen them since he was a kid!_

 

I'm almost afraid to ask,how old is your dad?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm almost afraid to ask,how old is your dad?_

 

He's 62 I believe.

 It was pretty funny, as he was listening he kept talking, but you know when you have huge headphones on, you talk louder than normal? He was pretty much yelling, "I REALLY LIKE THIS SONG. IT SOUNDS GOOD. PUT A DIFFERENT SONG ON. THESE ARE COMFORTABLE."


----------



## bdr529

just don't tell him how much you payed for those tubes


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's 62 I believe._

 

He's got 5 years on me. I don't feel so bad now


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just don't tell him how much you payed for those tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha yeah, he asked how much it cost and I just said 'not much', and left it at that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn-
 Really? You look like you're in your 30s or 40s in your avatar photo.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha yeah, he asked how much it cost and I just said 'not much', and left it at that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn-
 Really? You look like you're in your 30s or 40s in your avatar photo._

 

Guess he took that photo 15+ years ago. 

 Some people look much younger than their age, so that's one possibility too. If that is the case, man, I truly envy you. I look older than my age.. sigh..


----------



## atbglenn

oops double post


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess he took that photo 15+ years ago. 

 Some people look much younger than their age, so that's one possibility too. If that is the case, man, I truly envy you. I look older than my age.. sigh.._

 

My Avatar picture was taken in 1999 when I was 47. I still look pretty much the same, although I do have a few more gray hairs and a few extra pounds. Such is life. I'm still healthy and very active for an old man LOL!

 Current photo.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Avatar picture was taken in 1999 when I was 47. I still look pretty much the same, although I do have a few more gray hairs and a few extra pounds. Such is life. I'm still healthy and very active for an old man LOL!

 Current photo. 




_

 

You definitely look younger than your age....


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You definitely look younger than your age....



_

 

Thanks!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess he took that photo 15+ years ago. 

 Some people look much younger than their age, so that's one possibility too. If that is the case, man, I truly envy you. I look older than my age.. sigh.._

 

I tell you my secret, I just steal some my wife's $80 face lotions after shower. It helped.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just don't tell him how much you payed for those tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes keep the price to yourself is a wise idea for every head-fier


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's got 5 years on me. I don't feel so bad now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You could have fooled me, Glenn, you look 40! Listening to Woo Amps is the fountain of youth I see!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could have fooled me, Glenn, you look 40! Listening to Woo Amps is the fountain of youth I see! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Clayton, You are being way too kind. 40's pushing it pal!


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sillysally, have you considered the KR 300b Balloons over the Treasures?_

 

Yes I have looked at those tubes, if I do go with the WA5 LE I think at first I will go with what Jack thinks will work for me. 

 I say 'if' because Thursday I am going over to Ray Samuels house for a test flight of his B-52 and bring my gear to use with the B-52.

 ss


----------



## regal

Can anyone confirm that the lead to the OPT on the standard Woo6 goes to the plate or the cathode? I have heard two different sides to this and need confirmation before I buy this or the SE version (which I know is ouput from the plate.)


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Avatar picture was taken in 1999 when I was 47. I still look pretty much the same, although I do have a few more gray hairs and a few extra pounds. Such is life. I'm still healthy and very active for an old man LOL!

 Current photo. 




_

 


 Hey, who's this young handsome man!


----------



## atbglenn

Thanks Danny, I changed my avatar to a new pic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (the first time I've ever used my iMac's built in camera)


----------



## sillysally

After trying out a RSA B-52 with both single end and balanced end HD-800 using Ray's CD player (fully balanced) and my Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition using the 2ch dedicated stereo RCA outs. My finding where using a Balanced HD-800s system wasn't better than the SE HD-800 system, It was just a little different. Matter of fact I don't think I would trade my WA6SE max for Ray's B-52. The difference between my 6SE and the B-52 was in the soundstage 3D, and the separation of the notes/sounds. The B-52 is very smooth and I guess sonically good but it was lacking impact. As somebody has already said the B-52 is lacking soul. 

 So I have ordered a WA5 LE max, and now the wait begins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WA5LE black

 Premium Parts upgrade

 Shuguang Premium Grade A Treasure 300B matched pair 12 month warranty

 Shuguang Premium Grade A Treasure CV181 matched pair 12 month warranty

 EML 5U4G matched pair mesh (please make sure these are the ones you have now)

 Alps RK50

 Teflon socket

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition using the 2ch dedicated stereo RCA outs._

 

I thought I recognized your screenname from somewhere! I just got done catching up on 3 months of posts in the AVSForum thread on the Oppo BDP83SE. Once you mentioned tubes in that thread it clicked.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought I recognized your screenname from somewhere! I just got done catching up on 3 months of posts in the AVSForum thread on the Oppo BDP83SE. Once you mentioned tubes in that thread it clicked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep that's me on AVS. If you have a Pioneer 141/101 the ISF settings are mine also. D-Nice does all the rest of the settings for the other 9G Kuros.

 I highly recommend the BD-83SE/NE for are Woo Amps. I will be doing a review of the SE and the NE 2Ch stereo analog soon now that I have the BD-83SE broke-in in. 

 I have both the BD-83SE and BD-83NE. I will be using the NE for my WA5 LE and the SE for my WA6SE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

When it arrives my WA6 will be driven by the Channel Islands VDA2 DAC noted in my sig (coincidentally the same one takezo uses I've noticed). I also have a little dot CDP_1 transport feeding the VDA2.

 I'm eyeing the NuForce BDP83 as the source component of choice for a complete re-do of my other audio setup. Basically thinking about dumping the whole 5.1 surround system and replacing it with a really high-end (for my income anyway) 2.0 stereo system. That's for the future though. I'm looking forward to getting acquainted with the new Woo amp for the time being. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I found your contributions to the BDP83 thread (and here too) very helpful btw.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When it arrives my WA6 will be driven by the Channel Islands VDA2 DAC noted in my sig (coincidentally the same one takezo uses I've noticed). I also have a little dot CDP_1 transport feeding the VDA2.

 I'm eyeing the NuForce BDP83 as the source component of choice for a complete re-do of my other audio setup. Basically thinking about dumping the whole 5.1 surround system and replacing it with a really high-end (for my income anyway) 2.0 stereo system. That's for the future though. I'm looking forward to getting acquainted with the new Woo amp for the time being. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I found your contributions to the BDP83 thread (and here too) very helpful btw._

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 The BD-83SE/NE will work great with your new Woo, there is no need for any DAC. Just run the SE/NE directly to your Woo via interconnects. 
 The SE/NE and the dedicated stereo output uses another 8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip by stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels. The 2ch side of this audio board is just dynamite, very fast, very sonic, great soundstage/3D, bass is very nice with a lot of impact along with the mids, highs and micro sounds/background audio. 
 Plus this player will stream from your HD, however this function is still in Beta. You can also use the oppo for SACD, HDCD, DVD-A, MP3s ect.

 ss


----------



## tosehee

grats, Sillysally, and welcome to Woo family.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_grats, Sillysally, and welcome to Woo family._

 

Thanks, but I already have a WA6SE for almost a year now. 
 Knowing what I now know about how Woo amps are made and the honesty of the Wu family. I don't think i would be nearly as comfortable buying from a different maker.

 And of course trying other high end amps makes my decision a no brainier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## BIG POPPA

Congrats sillysally, just a heads up, with the upgraded caps it does take a while for them to burn in. For me with the Blackgates it was probably 2 months for them to settle in. And I listen everyday to music.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats sillysally, just a heads up, with the upgraded caps it does take a while for them to burn in. For me with the Blackgates it was probably 2 months for them to settle in. And I listen everyday to music._

 

Thanks for the heads-up. My 6SE has blackgates also and I agree. But once the upgrades stabilize it sure sounds nice. 

 That's the only downside to a new amp with parts upgrades, the burn-in. 

 ss


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the heads-up. My 6SE has blackgates also and I agree. But once the upgrades stabilize it sure sounds nice. 

 That's the only downside to a new amp with parts upgrades, the burn-in. 

 ss_

 

My 6SE with BG took almost 6 months to settle down.. Now burning in V-Cap in my DAC.


----------



## Seamaster

Too bad WA5LE is not balanced, I just email jack to make balanced statment amp.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the heads-up. My 6SE has blackgates also and I agree. But once the upgrades stabilize it sure sounds nice. 

 That's the only downside to a new amp with parts upgrades, the burn-in. 

 ss_

 

Ha. I totally forgot about your 6SE. 

 Well, grats on getting THE BEST amp in Woo products.

 One day, I might sell WA22 and Jump on W5 myself, if it's proved to be better. Unfortunately for me, there is no W5(LE) owners here in Atlanta, GA.


----------



## Modena

My order for a AW5 is officially in queue. I am having an out for a sub, Premium Upgrade, and a stepped attenuator installed. 

 I am very excited. 

 I plan to add some Western Electrics. Any ideas as to where I can acquire them?

 William~


----------



## BIG POPPA

https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My order for a AW5 is officially in queue. I am having an out for a sub, Premium Upgrade, and a stepped attenuator installed. 

 I am very excited. 

 I plan to add some Western Electrics. Any ideas as to where I can acquire them?

 William~_

 

WE 300B is great tube to have, but equally expensive. I have 2 pair (4) in NOS which I use for my regular speaker setup, but man.. It cost me arm and leg to get four.

 Good luck.


----------



## Modena

Really?! 

 Well, I have also heard that some are defective in the design (the earlier versions where the adhesive was not effective). Some have failed after two to three months of use. 

 Perhaps Sophia Princess would be a safer bet.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really?! 

 Well, I have also heard that some are defective in the design (the earlier versions where the adhesive was not effective). Some have failed after two to three months of use. 

 Perhaps Sophia Princess would be a safer bet._

 

I have no clue about this.. but Sophia is also far cheaper than WE 300B..

 1/5 of the cost.

 You can also try Shuguang 300B treasure series, but I'd probably go with Sophia myself if I were you.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really?! 

 Well, I have also heard that some are defective in the design (the earlier versions where the adhesive was not effective). Some have failed after two to three months of use. 

 Perhaps Sophia Princess would be a safer bet._

 

The KR Balloon 300B's are top notch. They are electrically identical to the old WE's, and can handle increased voltage should the opportunity arise. Further, KR tubes have a much better vacuum than any other tubes, thanks to the strength of their envelope which is similar to pyrex. 

 I highly recommend you search these out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Congrats on the WA5!!!


----------



## Modena

Thanks for the tips guys.

 I did some searching and did find the KR's. They do have a nice voltage spectrum, and have some good reviews as well. I'll try to locate some.

 I'm very excited about the new unit. Also, Jack was very patient with me; answering all my questions and making suggestions. What a great way to buy a product--very impressive.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the tips guys.

 I did some searching and did find the KR's. They do have a nice voltage spectrum, and have some good reviews as well. I'll try to locate some.

 I'm very excited about the new unit. Also, Jack was very patient with me; answering all my questions and making suggestions. What a great way to buy a product--very impressive._

 

Jack isn't so impressive with communication for me. 

 In any rate, I totally forgot about KR.. Some say KR is better than WE. I don't think you can go wrong with KR. Definitely better choice to Sophia or even WE given the price.


----------



## Modena

Thanks for the endorsement on the tubes. I'll be trying to acquire for a fair price. 

 Jack always gets back to me later in the day or evening--sometimes a few times as my questions layer due to the delay in getting back. But he "always" gets back to me. 

 Good luck.


----------



## Superfrag

Hey guys, I just have one question. I have my WA6, and I started running it. I noticed that the tubes are INSANELY hot.. if I touch them for more than 1-2 seconds my finger will burn, that hot. Also, the two small tubes in front have some brown circle formed in front.. is it normal? Pardon the questions, its my first tube amp!
 Btw, it sounds heavenly.. absolutely amazing!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I just have one question. I have my WA6, and I started running it. I noticed that the tubes are INSANELY hot.. if I touch them for more than 1-2 seconds my finger will burn, that hot. Also, the two small tubes in front have some brown circle formed in front.. is it normal? Pardon the questions, its my first tube amp!
 Btw, it sounds heavenly.. absolutely amazing!_

 

The temperature is fine.

 As for brown thing, is it brown or is it more like silver?


----------



## Superfrag

Wait.. lemme click a picture!

 here you go.. this is how it looks.







 it does look more like silver..


----------



## tosehee

That is perfectly fine.


----------



## Superfrag

Thanks a lot for the help!!!


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it does look more like silver.._

 

that is called the "getter"

 it reacts with any air in the tube, to maintain vacuum


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm very excited about the new unit. Also, Jack was very patient with me; answering all my questions and making suggestions. What a great way to buy a product--very impressive._

 

Yes Jack is very patient with me also. This is the second amp I am getting from Woo.
 Yes you just can't go wrong with a Woo. 

 ss


----------



## BIG POPPA

Man, Jack is the man. I got a 3+ tricked out, very tricked out. I asked for a ton of stuff to trick out the amp. Got almost everything. You just have to ask him. He does listen.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, Jack is the man. I got a 3+ tricked out, very tricked out. I asked for a ton of stuff to trick out the amp. Got almost everything. You just have to ask him. He does listen._

 

Does your 3+ have a top nomenclature like the WA6. I saw one on youtube that did, but on Woo's website, none of them do


----------



## DoingOK

I got a nice little box from the mail man today. I'm pretty impressed with the build quality thus far.....time to burn it in.


----------



## bdr529

it should be time to listen


----------



## Zombie_X

Well guys I managed to snag a WA3+ from a fellow Head-Fier and I will be getting it this coming week.

 I will post impressions once it arrives.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it should be time to listen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Agreed! Burn-in schmurn-in. Crack open a bottle of beer, turn down the lights, sit in a comfy chair, and enjoy the music.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well guys I managed to snag a WA3+ from a fellow Head-Fier and I will be getting it this coming week.

 I will post impressions once it arrives._

 

Right On! What tubes did you get with it?


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well guys I managed to snag a WA3+ from a fellow Head-Fier and I will be getting it this coming week.

 I will post impressions once it arrives._

 

You will like the 3+. I owned one for a year before going to a 2. It's really a great amp. Enjoy!


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed! Burn-in schmurn-in. Crack open a bottle of beer, turn down the lights, sit in a comfy chair, and enjoy the music.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's what I'm doing now.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I'm doing now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mate congratulations on your purchase


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mate congratulations on your purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you. My little man cave is now nearly complete. This is the first "real" set of headphones and amplifier I've ever owned. I chose the products based on a LOT of research on this forum. Thanks fellas.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you. My little man cave is now nearly complete. This is the first "real" set of headphones and amplifier I've ever owned. I chose the products based on a LOT of research on this forum. Thanks fellas.




_

 

Congrats and welcome to the club..


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right On! What tubes did you get with it?_

 

He said it will comes with two Amperex Bugle Boys 6DJ8's and the power tube is stock. I was looking to upgrade to a Sovtek 6AS7G eventually unless you have a recommendation.

 Also the power tube isn't the same type as a KT88 right? I hope so as I have a NOS Gold Lion KT88 on me.


----------



## BIG POPPA

The bugle boys are OK, I like the RCA's E88cc's more, and the Tesla E88cc's Rhodium A lot more. Power tubes Bendix, GEC, or Mullard is the way to go. The prices for 5998's have got crazy, might as well get a Western Electric 421 for the same price.

 Don't use the KT 88. It is a tube on steroids. Very powerful, A pair can create 80 watts of power or something like that.


----------



## Zombie_X

Thanks for the quick response but could you verify if the KT88 is compatible?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Oh No...... It is not.


----------



## Zombie_X

Bummer..... which power tube would you recommend to give me a bit more bass, rich/smooth mids and smooth, but not rolled highs?

 My dad recommended RCA's and Mullards to use as he uses all tube equipment.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Mullard CV2984's or to Rock out, Bendix 6080WB. The Bendix is the most detailed and musical power tube.The Mullard is a great tube very easy to listen to. The GEC has rolled off highs and is slow with guitars. With electronic stuff it will get hooked like a junkie. I have been using the Bendix 6080WB/ Tesla E88cc combo for a least a month.


----------



## Zombie_X

Would you say the Bendix is good for rock/metal? That's mostly what i listen to.


----------



## BIG POPPA

YUP, I listen to mostly rock and to me the Bendix is the way to go for that stuff, The Mullard should be good too.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Can the Mullards be used on a WA6SE?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Yes I believe they make Mullards for the WA6SE but the number will be completely different. You will have to cross reference the tube number. I did find some Mullard 5ar4 5u4g references on Google.


----------



## Xcalibur255

At least one other Woo owner has posted comments about the Mullard GZ34 in the past. Though, looking at the prices for NOS examples you could almost just go get a Sophia Princess. Not exactly the same sound I imagine, but the Sophia gets almost universal praise and you can always go with the warmest power tubes possible to balance out the detail of the Sophia if the warm sound of the Mullard was what you were after.


----------



## Seamaster

Mullard GZ34 sound one of the coolest, not warm at all. I don't know about metal base GZ34. Compare to other rectifier, Mullard pack some crazy puch and dynamic, but sound less 3D and sound stage than Sophia and EML, and less musical than EML. great imaging and foucs thought. Almost give you a tast of soild state amp.


----------



## DoingOK

Well.............first little upgrade for the WA6, I ordered the Sophia Princess. I'm sure I'll be having fun trying different tube combinations.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got a nice little box from the mail man today. I'm pretty impressed with the build quality thus far.....time to burn it in.

 <snip>_

 

Hey man! It seems we have complementary setups


----------



## Seamaster

Welcome to the club the_equalizer


 Heads up on a pair of NU 6F8G round plate:

2 National Union 6F8G Tubes-Sim 6SN7GT-Roundplates - eBay (item 140382988696 end time Feb-17-10 19:07:45 PST)


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club the_equalizer

 <snip>_

 

Thank you Seamaster, but I joined the club back in October 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just read more than I post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers!


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey man! It seems we have complementary setups 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











_

 

Why do I hear this song....ebony and ivory playing in the back of my head? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I got the WA6 quicker than was expected (Thanks Jack) and it just about completes my little man cave. Excuse the wires not tucked under the pc.....I'm waiting on longer cords.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why do I hear this song....ebony and ivory playing in the back of my head? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I got the WA6 quicker than was expected (Thanks Jack) and it just about completes my little man cave. Excuse the wires not tucked under the pc.....I'm waiting on longer cords. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That looks great! Congrats on the WA6, I'm sure you'll love it. What is that piece of equipment on the corner shelf? Your setup is very, very clean...bravo!


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks great! Congrats on the WA6, I'm sure you'll love it. What is that piece of equipment on the corner shelf? Your setup is very, very clean...bravo!_

 

Thank you for the compliments. The piece of gear on the corner shelf is my pc I just finished building. It has a touchscreen monitor built into it that I use as a dual-display. I have an overclocked i7 cpu, 12 gig of ram, solid state boot drive and 1.5 Terabyte of additional storage along with bluray capability. It's pretty fast for me.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for the compliments. The piece of gear on the corner shelf is my pc I just finished building. It has a touchscreen monitor built into it that I use as a dual-display. I have an overclocked i7 cpu, 12 gig of ram, solid state boot drive and 1.5 Terabyte of additional storage along with bluray capability. It's pretty fast for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That "whoosh" sound you heard was all of the computer-talk going over my head
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, I appreciate those that have your knowledge and I'm sure it's a great machine. 

 I wish I was able to have a space as clean-looking as yours but my man-cave has bare concrete walls


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for the compliments. The piece of gear on the corner shelf is my pc I just finished building. It has a touchscreen monitor built into it that I use as a dual-display. I have an overclocked i7 cpu, 12 gig of ram, solid state boot drive and 1.5 Terabyte of additional storage along with bluray capability. It's pretty fast for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How are you liking your new amp?

 Wicked nice computer BTW. I've been wanting to build another one but Head-Fi has sucked away all my money.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only thing I can top you on is the storage; I have roughly 4TB and I'm in dire need of more.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the WA6 quicker than was expected (Thanks Jack) and it just about completes my little man cave._

 

Congrats. Maybe mine will come sooner too, hehe.

 What tubes did Jack send you as stock? People seem to have gotten all different kinds of brands: United, RCA, Sylvania, etc. for the power tubes. I was thinking of asking him if he could send the RCA 6DE7 with the shield plate between the sections since that's what I wanted to start with anyway.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats. Maybe mine will come sooner too, hehe.

 What tubes did Jack send you as stock? People seem to have gotten all different kinds of brands: United, RCA, Sylvania, etc. for the power tubes. I was thinking of asking him if he could send the RCA 6DE7 with the shield plate between the sections since that's what I wanted to start with anyway._

 

I'll have to look when I get home. I know the single tube was in a Russian box that looks like it was printed in 1940?


----------



## Zombie_X

Me again guys...

 What tubes would you recommend for rock, but have great soundstaging abilities and dynamics, but also have a very smooth sound with excellent detail and also have great bass? 'Cause I don't want a narrow soundstage at all, but rather very wide and deep. I'd also like some airyness to the sound. Another thing is that I'd like it to be a warmer tube, but not congested or honky.

 Thanks BIG_POPPA for the previous sugesstions


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me again guys...

 What tubes would you recommend for rock, but have great soundstaging abilities and dynamics, but also have a very smooth sound with excellent detail and also have great bass? 'Cause I don't want a narrow soundstage at all, but rather very wide and deep. I'd also like some airyness to the sound. Another thing is that I'd like it to be a warmer tube, but not congested or honky.

 Thanks BIG_POPPA for the previous sugesstions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

May I know which WA model are the tubes gonna be fitted on?


----------



## Zombie_X

Oh sorry it's the WA3+.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me again guys...

 What tubes would you recommend for rock, but have great soundstaging abilities and dynamics, but also have a very smooth sound with excellent detail and also have great bass? 'Cause I don't want a narrow soundstage at all, but rather very wide and deep. I'd also like some airyness to the sound. Another thing is that I'd like it to be a warmer tube, but not congested or honky.

 Thanks BIG_POPPA for the previous sugesstions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh sorry it's the WA3+._

 

I remembered those Mullard power tubeswill do a great job on WA3+. Need to check the ECC#s.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Check this link Zombie http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/woo...=Woo3+modified


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remembered those Mullard power tubeswill do a great job on WA3+. Need to check the ECC#s._

 

Which Mullard power tubes? Sorry, but I'm far more experienced with solid state components than tube.


----------



## hifidk

I have received Sophia Princess 274B!


----------



## Seamaster

How do you compare your Woo 3+ with rapter?


----------



## BIG POPPA

E88cc, E188cc, 7308 are common 6922's and 6dj8's and CCa's


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you compare your Woo 3+ with rapter?_

 

I believe this question is directed at me. I'm sure it was a mistake but I actually have WA6 w/ PDPS upgrade, not WA3+. I actually really like the Raptor and think that it has more clarity and detail, and more punchier than the woo. However, WA6 is still very good amp for its price. Smooth and relaxed but still has plenty of dynamics and detail. Especially with Princess, they sound really good compared to the Raptor. I haven't done direct comparison yet so I wouldn't (or can't) go into detail. I will decide pretty soon which one to keep though. However, if they are in the same price range, I would definitely pick the Raptor over WA6.


----------



## bdr529

what drive tubes are you using on the wa6 in that pic


----------



## midoo1990

how does it synergise with your hd600 hifidk?


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bdr529* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what drive tubes are you using on the wa6 in that pic_

 

I am using RCA 6DE7 with shield in the middle.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does it synergise with your hd600 hifidk?_

 

As there are many reviews of this combo, it is a lovely match. Like I said, with Raptor, HD600 has much more dynamic and no veil at all. With WA6, it is a bit warmer and smoother. I think there is really good synergy between HD600 and tube amps and WA6 is one of the best at its price range.


----------



## gt67

Question for the more experienced and the techies out there:

 I use an SB3 with a DacMagic and I want to be able to use it for both the headphone amp and also another amp (feeding speakers) in the same room without using an RCA selector box or haveing to unplug the cables each time I want to listen to either setup.

 So:is there any reason why I cant use one of these cables from the output of the Dacmagic into the WA6 amp?

DJ Equipment | 2 XLR Female - 2 RCA Phono Cable - 2 Metres only £9.00 from DJ Store

 the Dacmagic specifications state:

 Output level (unbalanced): 2.1V rms
 Output level (balanced): 4.2V rms (2.1V per phase)

 Thanks for any advice and help

 P.S. love the WA6 amp with my Sofia Princess and pdps upgrade


----------



## Henerenry

I thought I'd chime in a bit after being away from talking about it.

 My WA2 has at least 150hrs on it now, probably closer to 300hrs. I've also rolled the stock tubes with the Woo recommended upgrade.

 WOW. Tube rolling makes a big difference. First thing I noticed, was the lushness that was apparent with the stock tubes is gone. This is a good thing, whilst I enjoyed it at first, going back to it now, it just sounds like mid range smearing and is much more congested.

 With the new tubes I think I am hearing what tube lovers refer to as "liquid" sound. I wouldnt say its "smooth" just effortless, the sound comes to easy. Sound stage and seperation/air has improved with the change in tubes.

 I'm more and more hearing the limitations of poorly recorded/compressed music. Its insteresting to hear how different the quality of recordings is over different songs in the same album.

 Also, I decided, that, ms-pros, don't play that nice with the amp. They have better detail retrieval than the dt880, but, the sound lacks balance, if the grado is even more pronounced in its colouration, than "......." The midrange bump makes sound too intense, some songs sound amazing, most do not. They spend a lot of times in their box these days.

 I have some hd650's on their way. Looking forward to them.


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gt67* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for the more experienced and the techies out there:

 I use an SB3 with a DacMagic and I want to be able to use it for both the headphone amp and also another amp (feeding speakers) in the same room without using an RCA selector box or haveing to unplug the cables each time I want to listen to either setup.

 So:is there any reason why I cant use one of these cables from the output of the Dacmagic into the WA6 amp?

DJ Equipment | 2 XLR Female - 2 RCA Phono Cable - 2 Metres only £9.00 from DJ Store

 the Dacmagic specifications state:

 Output level (unbalanced): 2.1V rms
 Output level (balanced): 4.2V rms (2.1V per phase)

 Thanks for any advice and help

 P.S. love the WA6 amp with my Sofia Princess and pdps upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I asked this question of Cambridge directly for both my DacMagic and my 840C cd-player and their answer on both counts was that each output is individually buffered and there will be no sound quality degradation by using both sets of outputs. I own a pair of BAT XLR-RCA adapters and have used them on both Cambridge pieces with great effect. Hope this helps...cheers!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe this question is directed at me. I'm sure it was a mistake but I actually have WA6 w/ PDPS upgrade, not WA3+. I actually really like the Raptor and think that it has more clarity and detail, and more punchier than the woo. However, WA6 is still very good amp for its price. Smooth and relaxed but still has plenty of dynamics and detail. Especially with Princess, they sound really good compared to the Raptor. I haven't done direct comparison yet so I wouldn't (or can't) go into detail. I will decide pretty soon which one to keep though. However, if they are in the same price range, I would definitely pick the Raptor over WA6._

 

I agree Woo amps are polite and lush compare to Raptor, but they are tonally superior, and give music more depth. I did wish my WA22 have more dynamic. Hence they are for recap. Sophia princess 274B did gave the amp alot of extra punch, but too sad Pricess is not compatible with 6F8G tubes.


----------



## the_equalizer

So has anyone here any experience of RCA 6FD7 tubes in the WA6 ? They're not "fat bottles" as the GE or Sylvania's. They look just like the RCA 6DE7 including the shield between the two triode sections. 

 cheers!


----------



## Palpatine

I have some hd650's on their way. Looking forward to them.[/QUOTE]



 You will love the WA2 with these phones. Good for you for getting the upgraded tubes...


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So has anyone here any experience of RCA 6FD7 tubes in the WA6 ? They're not "fat bottles" as the GE or Sylvania's. They look just like the RCA 6DE7 including the shield between the two triode sections. 

 cheers!_

 

I had these tubes with my WA6SE maxxed. I guess I'm not a great authority on tubes...I feel I heard subtle differences but I didn't find a "bad" combination. What I can say is that after trying the fat bottles, the 6FD7, etc I kept going back to my NOS RCA 6DE7. The always sounded very balanced to me and seemed to have a magic synergy with the AH-D7000 'phones I was using. I had several sets of these tubes including the very first "Kuhl-Tube" pair that had been cryo'd. I never heard a big difference between the cryo'd pair and the others I had on hand. These tubes also seemed to be consistently quiet and very reliable. 

 My two cents!


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree Woo amps are polite and lush compare to Raptor, but they are tonally superior, and give music more depth. I did wish my WA22 have more dynamic. Hence they are for recap. Sophia princess 274B did gave the amp alot of extra punch, but too sad Pricess is not compatible with 6F8G tubes._

 

Can you use the EML 5U4G-Mesh? 

 The Princess is really a great match with our Woo's. And imo the best bang for your buck.

 However the Princess 274B mesh is very sensitive to vibration. And not just from the Woo, anything in your rack and or anything that is connected to your Woo via cords or plugs. 

 Once you eliminate the vibration you will be amazed at how well your Woo sounds. On top of the improvement list is the bass, soundstage, highs, mids, smoothness of the audio and in that order.

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had these tubes with my WA6SE maxxed. I guess I'm not a great authority on tubes...I feel I heard subtle differences but I didn't find a "bad" combination. What I can say is that after trying the fat bottles, the 6FD7, etc I kept going back to my NOS RCA 6DE7. The always sounded very balanced to me and seemed to have a magic synergy with the AH-D7000 'phones I was using. I had several sets of these tubes including the very first "Kuhl-Tube" pair that had been cryo'd. I never heard a big difference between the cryo'd pair and the others I had on hand. These tubes also seemed to be consistently quiet and very reliable. 

 My two cents!_

 

What I just said in the above post will give you a better bass impact with the HD-800 than the AH-D7000. Plus now you are getting a much bigger out of head soundstage using the HD-800 over the AH-D7000. 
 I have both the AH-D7000 and the HD-800s, I also have a WA6SE maxxed. 

 I use the RCA big bottle silver top tipped circa 1963 with the Princess 274B mesh. 

 ss


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you use the EML 5U4G-Mesh? 

 The Princess is really a great match with our Woo's. And imo the best bang for your buck.

 However the Princess 274B mesh is very sensitive to vibration. And not just from the Woo, anything in your rack and or anything that is connected to your Woo via cords or plugs. 

 Once you eliminate the vibration you will be amazed at how well your Woo sounds. On top of the improvement list is the bass, soundstage, highs, mids, smoothness of the audio and in that order.

 ss_

 

I can USE Sophia with 6F8G on WA22, but the grid wire attract noise and loud hum from Sophia, that drives me crazy within 2 min. No noise, no hum with other tube than 6F8G thought. This also not a problem with any EML tube. I never figured this one out......


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can USE Sophia with 6F8G on WA22, but the grid wire attract noise and loud hum from Sophia, that drives me crazy within 2 min. No noise, no hum with other tube than 6F8G thought. This also not a problem with any EML tube. I never figured this one out......_

 

Was it you that found a EML 5U4G-Solid Plate. I haven't tried a EML 5U4G-Mesh yet but my EML 274-Solid Plate is my favorite with my WA6SE max and HD-800.

 ss


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had these tubes with my WA6SE maxxed. I guess I'm not a great authority on tubes...I feel I heard subtle differences but I didn't find a "bad" combination. What I can say is that after trying the fat bottles, the 6FD7, etc I kept going back to my NOS RCA 6DE7. The always sounded very balanced to me and seemed to have a magic synergy with the AH-D7000 'phones I was using. I had several sets of these tubes including the very first "Kuhl-Tube" pair that had been cryo'd. I never heard a big difference between the cryo'd pair and the others I had on hand. These tubes also seemed to be consistently quiet and very reliable. 

 My two cents!_

 

Thanks for your impressions indydieselnut ! Indeed I own a pair of RCA 6DE7 and like them very much too, but I love the added power you get with the 6FD7's.

 Thanks!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was it you that found a EML 5U4G-Solid Plate. I haven't tried a EML 5U4G-Mesh yet but my EML 274-Solid Plate is my favorite with my WA6SE max and HD-800.

 ss_

 

EML 5U4G soild plate is here. I ordered from germanny. I will test it out as soon as I get my amp back.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, a wonderful sight to behold this Monday morning. It's patiently waiting to be fired up!


----------



## midoo1990

guys which do you think is better for hd650,woo6+PDPS+PRINCESS sofia or woo3?i heard that the synergy between the hd650 and woo3 is amazing but i want to know if the woo6 will be better or shall i say in a different league?thx.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can USE Sophia with 6F8G on WA22, but the grid wire attract noise and loud hum from Sophia, that drives me crazy within 2 min. No noise, no hum with other tube than 6F8G thought. This also not a problem with any EML tube. I never figured this one out......_

 

Have you tried to use these?

6F8G Tubes & Removeable Metal Shields 6F8 Guaranteed - eBay (item 120531177434 end time Feb-21-10 20:56:49 PST)

 I wonder how well they work...

 Clayton-
 Looking very good, but where's your WA22?

 My 300th post and it's in the Woo Audio thread! Never thought I'd even make it past 30 posts here.


----------



## tosehee

Wow. Never seen such a shield before..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried to use these?

6F8G Tubes & Removeable Metal Shields 6F8 Guaranteed - eBay (item 120531177434 end time Feb-21-10 20:56:49 PST)

 I wonder how well they work...

 Clayton-
 Looking very good, but where's your WA22?

 My 300th post and it's in the Woo Audio thread! Never thought I'd even make it past 30 posts here.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

TheAudioDude-
 Congratulations on your 300th post!

 Those shields look very feudal--like a knight in shining armor. Okay, maybe slightly worn and dull but very impressive looking!

 My WA22 is in my extensive den (actually my small bedroom 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The WA6 is in the front living room.

 I would like to eventually sell the WA6; or give it to my brother-in-law as a gift but can't seem to part with it at present.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TheAudioDude-
 Congratulations on your 300th post!

 Those shields look very feudal--like a knight in shining armor. Okay, maybe slightly worn and dull but very impressive looking!

 My WA22 is in my extensive den (actually my small bedroom 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The WA6 is in the front living room.

 I would like to eventually sell the WA6; or give it to my brother-in-law as a gift but can't seem to part with it at present. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

That would be a very nice gesture! I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

 I agree that they look really feudal... they remind me of an iron maiden. No, not the heavy metal band


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TheAudioDude-
 Congratulations on your 300th post!

 Those shields look very feudal--like a knight in shining armor. Okay, maybe slightly worn and dull but very impressive looking!

 My WA22 is in my extensive den (actually my small bedroom 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The WA6 is in the front living room.

 I would like to eventually sell the WA6; or give it to my brother-in-law as a gift but can't seem to part with it at present. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

I'am your man if you are selling the WA6


----------



## Seamaster

Wow, that looks like chamber pot. That shield would not work I think. Because it is the grid wire (red wire) that attract noise. 

 @Clayton SF, get balanced cable for you HD650, that will make big improvment over the sound.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be a very nice gesture! I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

 I agree that they look really feudal... they remind me of an iron maiden. No, not the heavy metal band
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Iron maiden.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I knew EXACTLY what you meant! It also conjures up visions of the movie, _The Man in the Iron Mask_, as well. If anything, those shields are quite unique and a conversation piece if that. One would wonder about the great amount heat generated in that metal sarcophagus. I suppose it will dissipate with convection but it does look lethal. Now you've really piqued my interest in this accessory.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys which do you think is better for hd650,woo6+PDPS+PRINCESS sofia or woo3?i heard that the synergy between the hd650 and woo3 is amazing but i want to know if the woo6 will be better or shall i say in a different league?thx._

 

Woo 3 is OTL design which means sound thicker or more body than Woo6


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, that looks like chamber pot. That shield would not work I think. Because it is the grid wire (red wire) that attract noise. 

 @Clayton SF, get balanced cable for you HD650, that will make big improvment over the sound._

 

Thanks, Seamaster. Could you recommend a reputable dealer for a balanced cable for the HD650? I don't have the soldering skills like that of TheAudioDude to construct one myself.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Seamaster. Could you recommend a reputable dealer for a balanced cable for the HD650? I don't have the soldering skills like that of TheAudioDude to construct one myself._

 

I had Zu, cardas, and Stefan AudioArt. I would recommend Stefan AudioArt Eqiunox as I am using now. Eqiunox is not that expensive like Zu just do the same job. Those cable do everything right for HD650. Cardas on the other hand, too dark and laid back, I feel music is congested in a little room and also not transparent enough for HD650. I got mine Eqiunox used at TTVJ for $175, it is nothing wrong with that. Only draw back of Eqiunox is they use techflex, rub my cloth make noise when I move my head around. But did not bother me too much.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'am your man if you are selling the WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And pray, may I ask, what might the shipping charges be to the beautiful land down under?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys which do you think is better for hd650,woo6+PDPS+PRINCESS sofia or woo3?i heard that the synergy between the hd650 and woo3 is amazing but i want to know if the woo6 will be better or shall i say in a different league?thx._

 

While the WA3 does sound great with Senns... it is not as versatile as the WA6, and its variants. The WA3 doesn't mate well with low impedance phones. 

 So... if you plan to use a variety of high impedance and low impedance phones - get the WA6... preferably maxed.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had Zu, cardas, and Stefan AudioArt. I would recommend Stefan AudioArt Eqiunox as I am using now. Eqiunox is not that expensive like Zu just do the same job. Those cable do everything right for HD650. Cardas on the other hand, too dark and laid back, I feel music is congested in a little room and also not transparent enough for HD650. I got mine Eqiunox used at TTVJ for $175, it is nothing wrong with that. Only draw back of Eqiunox is they use techflex, rub my cloth make noise when I move my head around. But did not bother me too much._

 

Wow. They look great. I had never heard of Stefan AudioArt before. I shall look into this. Seamaster--Thanks.


----------



## Seamaster

No, the cable in this picture is their higher end model, which will cost you a leg at around $650. If for that price I would sell the HD650 get T1 instead.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While the WA3 does sound great with Senns... it is not as versatile as the WA6, and its variants. The WA3 doesn't mate well with low impedance phones. 

 So... if you plan to use a variety of high impedance and low impedance phones - get the WA6... preferably maxed._

 

I won't get another headphone,the hd650 suits all my music genres excellently that's why I am asking if the sound of the two is similar so I can get woo3 instead.I asked Jack about this and he replied by saying this"Thank you for your interests in our products. The WA3 is an excellent entry
 amp for the HD650, great synergy and matching. The WA6 is a higher end model
 than the WA3. It offers higher performance and it is more flexible to drive
 a very wide range of headphones. I would recommend the WA6 if your budget
 allow. However, both of these models are a great choice for the HD650."the same answer that you gave me,so if I will only use hd650,will it be better to get woo3 than 6?


----------



## Superfrag

@ Clayton!
 Im gonna have the exact setup in a couple of days! AKG K701 is on the way!
 Oh and which DAC are you using for the WA6?


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And pray, may I ask, what might the shipping charges be to the beautiful land down under?_

 

I would say $100.00


----------



## St3ve

My WA6 is somewhere in the country, and the excitement has kicked in. Unfortunately, my jubilation is tempered with the horror of having received the Tracking Message of Doom: 

 "AWAITING CUSTOMS CHARGING"

 Better adopt the position and brace myself, as the Taxman is a cruel man.

 Not really surprising, but it will probably add a couple of days to the delivery date, which is very irritating. 

 Expect a long-winded post full of superlatives and pictures when it turns up


----------



## midoo1990

let us know your impressions st3eve with the woo6+hd650.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Clayton!
 Im gonna have the exact setup in a couple of days! AKG K701 is on the way!
 Oh and which DAC are you using for the WA6?_

 

The Cambridge Audio Azur DacMagic is connected to the WA6. Check out it's back panel. From the March 2009 review in Stereophile: "The rear panel of the DacMagic is almost as crowded as my shaving shelf." Of course there are many others out there.


----------



## DannagE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA6 is somewhere in the country, and the excitement has kicked in. Unfortunately, my jubilation is tempered with the horror of having received the Tracking Message of Doom: 

 "AWAITING CUSTOMS CHARGING"

 Better adopt the position and brace myself, as the Taxman is a cruel man.

 Not really surprising, but it will probably add a couple of days to the delivery date, which is very irritating. 

 Expect a long-winded post full of superlatives and pictures when it turns up
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Only got charged £26.19 for mine when it came on 11/1/10

 Couldn't of been happier with that!


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DannagE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only got charged £26.19 for mine when it came on 11/1/10

 Couldn't of been happier with that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Really?!? Thats a glimmer of hope. I am expecting a charge of about 4x that. What was the process with parcelforce? did they send you a bill for the charges before delivering?


----------



## DannagE

Well to start with it was the slowest shipping ever over xmas, problerly because of suicide bombers on planes and snow. 

 Electronic Shipping Info Received, December 27, 2009
 Into Foreign Customs, January 06, 2010, 11:04 am, GREAT BRITAIN
 At Foreign Delivery Unit, January 11, 2010, 3:21 am, GREAT BRITAIN

 Then I checked the parcel force site before I got my letter, rang them, went and collected it and sat at home smiling whilst listening to it. Got the letter for payment next day. So would of been 3 days later if I had waited for their letter then waited again for them to ship it. Couldn't wait any longer...its a long long wait!!

 Go ring them now and go fetch it


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DannagE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well to start with it was the slowest shipping ever over xmas, problerly because of suicide bombers on planes and snow. 

 Electronic Shipping Info Received, December 27, 2009
 Into Foreign Customs, January 06, 2010, 11:04 am, GREAT BRITAIN
 At Foreign Delivery Unit, January 11, 2010, 3:21 am, GREAT BRITAIN

 Then I checked the parcel force site before I got my letter, rang them, went and collected it and sat at home smiling whilst listening to it. Got the letter for payment next day. So would of been 3 days later if I had waited for their letter then waited again for them to ship it. Couldn't wait any longer...its a long long wait!!

 Go ring them now and go fetch it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice! - I think I might give them a buzz then, I can't be bothered to spend 2 days pandering to bureaucracy. Was it at your local depot when you rang them?


----------



## DannagE

Yeah go ring the local depot and give them your tracking number or postcode. Good luck!


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DannagE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah go ring the local depot and give them your tracking number or postcode. Good luck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Will do, Cheers DannagE


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I won't get another headphone,the hd650 suits all my music genres excellently that's why I am asking if the sound of the two is similar so I can get woo3 instead.I asked Jack about this and he replied by saying this"Thank you for your interests in our products. The WA3 is an excellent entry
 amp for the HD650, great synergy and matching. The WA6 is a higher end model
 than the WA3. It offers higher performance and it is more flexible to drive
 a very wide range of headphones. I would recommend the WA6 if your budget
 allow. However, both of these models are a great choice for the HD650."the same answer that you gave me,so if I will only use hd650,will it be better to get woo3 than 6?_

 

I thought the WA3 was great with my Senns - though you will have to upgrade the tubes. If you're set on the WA3, I would get the WA3+, which Jack reports is a bit more refined and versatile. Although, the stock WA3+ can not be used as a pre-amp... neither, can the stock WA6.

 However, I think the WA6 does sound a wee bit better (not dramatically), is more versatile, and will be easier to sell, because of its versatility... if... you should ever decide to upgrade.

 And... with the right source and amp... you'll not find many phones, if any, that sound better than the "new" HD650's. So your committment to them is well justified, and makes amp selection a lot simpler.


----------



## tosehee

Extra versatility is a good future proof. I'd spent a bit more or wait for WA6 to be on sale... 

 You say that HD650 suits your need, but I guarantee you that it won't be your last headphone~.


----------



## midoo1990

haha,i still cant decide get a new phone or a woo6+SP,there are some on the FS forum and i was on the verge on buying one but i backed up in the last minute.would the music genres i listen to make the amp choice different?i listen to fast music mainly trance(vocal trance),ambient(shpongle..),house and others country,hiphop,pop,metal.


----------



## Seamaster

How much power does WA22 draw? Since my WA22 is being worked on, not at home. I noticed my utility bill went down $15~$20 a month.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much power does WA22 draw? Since my WA22 is being worked on, not at home. I noticed my utility bill went down $15~$20 a month._

 

You're kidding! I was wondering why my utility bill went up about $10 ~ $15 after I got my WA22. Maybe I should sell my WA22 and get a ss amp--NOT! But that's amazing if it does suck up that much electricity. Is it like burning a 100W light bulb all day long? or something along those (electric current) lines? That still wouldn't make one's electric bill shoot up fifteen bucks, yes?


----------



## Xcalibur255

That seems a bit off to me. Heating a six person hottub only adds about 15-20 per month to the electric bill, and the heaters in that thing are a helluva lot bigger than the elements in a vacuum tube.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

SeaMaster, I bet u don't heat up the jacuzzi tub or even soak yourself for continuous 8 hours right?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seems a bit off to me. Heating a six person hottub only adds about 15-20 per month to the electric bill, and the heaters in that thing are a helluva lot bigger than the elements in a vacuum tube._

 

Xcalibur255-
 You've got a good point in comparison there and may be right. I've figured it out, at least in my humble household, or apartment abode, and that is I got the WA22 on December 3, 2009. And that's when I started to use my large space heater almost all of the time because it was cold. At least by San Francisco standards. About 34º to 44º throughout Dec/Jan. That's what jumped my electric usage--my DeLonghi heater and not my WooTubes was the culprit. Anyway, I've stopped using the space heater because SF temp is now in the 50º ~ 60º. Quite a difference in temp and in the utility bill.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SeaMaster, I bet u don't heat up the jacuzzi tub or even soak yourself for continuous 8 hours right?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seems a bit off to me. Heating a six person hottub only adds about 15-20 per month to the electric bill, and the heaters in that thing are a helluva lot bigger than the elements in a vacuum tube._

 

It is not the WA22 alone. Also with CDP, power conditioners, lights, etc. Too often I fall in sleep with music while everything on untill almost next morning.


----------



## BIG POPPA

My wife always reminds me when I leave the tubes on. Every other night seems like.


----------



## St3ve

I just got my WA6 home, and my first impressions are that this is a really nice piece of kit. Laying your eyes, and hands, on one is very different from seeing photos - It looks so good, and oozes quality. I plugged the Sophia straight in (impatient) and have had a quick listen through both my RS1i and my HD650s, and this thing sounds really, really good with both. I fully intend to do a proper write-up on this amp soon (probably do a blog entry or separate post) once I have got my head round it.

 Anyway, I am happy to declare myself a Woo Audio owner. Stayed tuned for a full-blown appraisal.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Welcome to the Club. 

 Another proud WA owner.


----------



## midoo1990

Yes,please do one with the hd650 st3ve or tell us how it improves it .thx.


----------



## tosehee

welcome to the club.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my WA6 home, and my first impressions are that this is a really nice piece of kit. Laying your eyes, and hands, on one is very different from seeing photos - It looks so good, and oozes quality. I plugged the Sophia straight in (impatient) and have had a quick listen through both my RS1i and my HD650s, and this thing sounds really, really good with both. I fully intend to do a proper write-up on this amp soon (probably do a blog entry or separate post) once I have got my head round it.

 Anyway, I am happy to declare myself a Woo Audio owner. Stayed tuned for a full-blown appraisal._

 


 Congrats I know how you feel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have had my black W6se since early December 09. Certainly a beautiful amp. I thought about a short review with comparisons with my GS Solo SRG but as they are in different price bands I did not think it would be fair. (although for purchasers of the Solo in the US the price difference might not be that much)

 If anyone wants a short comparison just let me know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can say that it has certainly improved my HD650/SD V2 cable compared to the Solo.


----------



## St3ve

everyone.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes,please do one with the hd650 st3ve or tell us how it improves it .thx._

 

I will do, In the short few hours that I have been listening to it, The improvement in sound is most obvious with my HD650. My RS1s sound great with it, but the improvement vs my LD I+ is subtle with them. Conversely, The difference this amp has made to the sound of my HD650 is quite obvious - A sense of weight, body and balance to the sound which i hadn't heard before. Then again, to be fair, I guess I hadn't been amping my HD650s properly before.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nigeljames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats I know how you feel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have had my black W6se since early December 09. Certainly a beautiful amp. I thought about a short review with comparisons with my GS Solo SRG but as they are in different price bands I did not think it would be fair. (although for purchasers of the Solo in the US the price difference might not be that much)

 If anyone wants a short comparison just let me know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can say that it has certainly improved my HD650/SD V2 cable compared to the Solo._

 


 I was actually considering the solo as an option when I was looking into getting an amp that would last me the myriad different cans that I want to try, guess I just wanted to go tube though. I am sure there would be people who would want an opinion on how they differ - both are seemingly popular amps so I am sure a write-up from someone who has both would be really valuable to the community. You should definitely do it


----------



## nigeljames

Ok then here goes

*Woo6se vs GS Solo SRG I*

 First a little background:
 I have had a Solo for over 2 ½ years. First a 2007 model (actually I had 2, the first was stolen) and then in May 09 I sold the Solo and purchased the SRG version because I was in the process of getting some more phones that were low impedance and felt the SRG would be better.
 Firstly I would like to say that I don’t feel the SRG is better than the 2007 version!
 Although there was a short gap between selling my old Solo and receiving the new I don’t feel SQ has really changed between the two. However their ability to drive hi/lo impedance phones did!

 The SRG was much better with my K701’s giving a bigger fuller sound with very deep, powerful, punchy, tight bass. Unfortunately the HD650’s suffered badly from a bloated bass, much more than the 2007 Solo which was quite good in that department, and a dull lifeless sound. I had previously upgraded from the Equinox cable to the Silver Dragon v2 to give the HD650’s greater speed, detail, tighter bass and HF extension and was happy with the results. The SRG seemed to throw the last two attributes away.
 From that moment, after burn in was complete, I rarely touched the Senns except on my PC for casual listening. The ‘crystalline’ feature on my X-FI soundcard actually made them sound very good!


*SQ Comparisons*
 There have been quite a few threads on head-fi dealing with the SQ of both amps that I won’t be going into detail on them individually, although feel free to ask specific questions. I will be giving my impressions based on the results with my headphones. I will just say that the Woo6se does not sound anything like what I would expect a tube amp to sound. Soft, lush, laidback etc are not words you can use with the 6se in stock form and I am still using the stock tubes.
 Also my source (Cyrus CD8se) has a fast, detailed upfront sound with excellent dynamics, detail, clarity and tight punchy bass. So please take this into account when reading my comments.


*HD650 with Silver Dragon v2 cable:
*
 This one is a knockout for the Woo. The sound is more forward and dynamic. The Senns are no longer a laidback phone, except when compared to phones with a forward and aggressive nature.
 Bass has more impact and the HF’s, although still laid back, are brought out much more and extends further than with the Solo. The Woo gives the Senns more life, excitement and involvement and I have been listening a lot more to them in recent weeks and really enjoying them again.

 Winner: Woo6se by knockout


*AKG K701*

 The Solo SRG does a very good job on these so it is hard to pick a winner here. Both amps have plenty of power to drive them. HF’s tend to be more distinct on the Solo but are very rarely harsh while the Woo adds more punch and drive to the bass. Therefore I will declare it a draw for now, I will need to go back a listen in more detail before I can make a final decision. I will say that neither amp will give a harsh/bright/thin or bass light sound which is what you can easily get with an underamped K701.

 Tie: pending a steward’s inquiry!


*ULTRASONE ALO-780J* 

 These are my favourite phones. Bought as my go-to rock/metal phone.
 Bought after I upgraded my Solo and were always an exciting phone with a fast upfront sound with detail to match the K701’s. The bass has more impact and drive than the AKG’s but because their bass is even tighter than the AKG’s it can seem lacking at times. 
 The Woo add fullness to the bass that the Solo does not. It also adds more body and weight to the whole sound although they were never thin sounding on the Solo. With the Woo they are just even more musical than before.

 Winner: Woo6se by unanimous points.


 I am looking to add a balanced SS amp in the near future, probably the Audio-gd Roc, and will give impressions with what should be a closer contest with the Woo.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If anyone has any questions feel free and I will try to answer the best I can.


----------



## tosehee

Thanks for sharing the impressions/reviews of WA6 with various headphones. You guys should try to do the tube rolling and see how driver/power changes the output.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for sharing the impressions/reviews of WA6 with various headphones. You guys should try to do the tube rolling and see how driver/power changes the output._

 

Definitely will at some point. Tube rolling is a whole other addiction in my experience, and I daren't start till my bank balance recovers!!!

 Nice impressions BTW nigeljames


----------



## midoo1990

thanks for the comparisons nigel,i have couple of questions if you dont mind:
 1-the k701 bass is very well controlled and textured and never bloated.does the hd650 have the same amount of detailness and texture in the bass area(ofcourse hd650 trumps k701 in impact ) with the woo6?
 2-you said something that worried me,which is the woo makes the hd650 sound more forward and not laid back anymore,how forward is the sound?is it more forward than the k701?is the soundstage depth compromised by this and become smaller?this is a deal breaker for me because i hate forward sound like the k701 and if you see in my sig i also have the ie8 which is even more laid back and darker in comparison to hd650,but i will never sell it because i adore laid back sound of the senns.
 3-how is the treble of hd650 with the woo?will it reach the treble level of the highly fatguing,highly metallic,highly bright k701?this is also a deal breaker for me because i am sensitive to treble.
 4-is the level of detail of hd650+woo can compare to the insanly detailed k701?
 5-is the speed,clarity and soundstage increased dramatically with hd650+woo?i am especially concerned about speed because i listen mainly to vocal trance,ambient,house and ofcourse other genres except rock and electronica and dark metal.
 sorry for these looooooooong questions
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BUT i will appreciate your help or anyone else want to chime in.thanks


----------



## nigeljames

I have some RCA 6DE7's that I have tried in place of the stock 6EW7 and did not notice much difference but this was before the Woo had been burnt in so will give them another go in the near future. I also have just inserted a few hours ago a Tung Sol 5U4GB so will see how that works out.


----------



## nigeljames

No problem Midoo1990

 1-the k701 bass is very well controlled and textured and never bloated.does the hd650 have the same amount of detailness and texture in the bass area(ofcourse hd650 trumps k701 in impact ) with the woo6?

 The HD650's enhance the bass, a bit like the Denons but to a lesser extent, so imo they will not have the bass detail of the Akg's but probably have the same texture. I don't really agree that the HD650's have more impact. They both have plenty with the right amp.The Akg's have a punchier bass due to it being tighter where the Senns have a fuller bass.


 2-you said something that worried me,which is the woo makes the hd650 sound more forward and not laid back anymore,how forward is the sound?is it more forward than the k701?is the soundstage depth compromised by this and become smaller?this is a deal breaker for me because i hate forward sound like the k701 and if you see in my sig i also have the ie8 which is even more laid back and darker in comparison to hd650,but i will never sell it because i adore laid back sound of the senns.

 The Senns are never 'in your face' like Grado's and some ultrasones but the Woo6se is a forward sounding amp. Maybe the Woo2 would be more your liking? I don't imo believe that the Senns have a great soundstage. I listen mostly to rock/metal where sounstaging is not very important. The soundstaging will not be as wide or deep as the Akg's or as wide as my ultrasones.


 3-how is the treble of hd650 with the woo?will it reach the treble level of the highly fatguing,highly metallic,highly bright k701?this is also a deal breaker for me because i am sensitive to treble.

 Compared to many cans, including the Akg's, the Senns are still slightly dark sounding. You have no worries there but I don't find the Akg's metalic,fatguing or over bright. Don't forget also that I have the Silver Dragon cable which is a silver cable to help bring out the treble. Stock or copper cable would be darker than what I am hearing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 4-is the level of detail of hd650+woo can compare to the insanly detailed k701?

 The level of detail will not compare with the Akg's on the same amp, but in isolation the Senns are quite detailed. I always thought they were very detailed until I got the Akg's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 5-is the speed,clarity and soundstage increased dramatically with hd650+woo?i am especially concerned about speed because i listen mainly to vocal trance,ambient,house and ofcourse other genres except rock and electronica and dark metal.

 Speed is very important to me as well. I can tell you that the Woo is a very fast amp possibly amongst the fastest tube amps with, in some ways, a SS sound. Its easily as fast as the Solo. Double bass drumming, fast intricate guitar solos are no problem with the Woo and I do listen to some speed metal!!
 Clarity is also very good with the Woo. I think the extra hf information aids detail and clarity.


----------



## midoo1990

wow,thank you very much nigel for the comparisons.you dont like the hd650 soundstage,i sold the k701 because of its soundstage
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.it was very wide but the depth was very dissapointing and many headfiers told me that too that the k701 depth is not great.OTOH,the soundstage of the hd650 is not as wide and unnatural as the k701,instead it is very well coherent with excellent depth and doesnt sound artificial to me like the k701 did,which makes every song even if intimate very airy and on huge scale.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys should try to do the tube rolling and see how driver/power changes the output._

 

It'd be nice to see some fresh tube rolling discussion again. It seems to have died off a lot lately, except for the WA22 thread. I was just debating whether to post impressions here or start a new thread when it came time to write up my own impressions. New threads always seem to attract little attention and just die. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While waiting for my Woo to arrive I've collected at least one example of every power tube the WA6 can use from a variety of brands, along with a few 5V4Gs to play with before a Sophia upgrade down the road. I'm looking forward to trying them all out, but this whole notion of older tubes sounding better has become something of an obsession for me since all I can ever find/get are the relatively newer NOS tubes from the late 60's and 70's.


----------



## nigeljames

Xcalibur255;6408834 said:
			
		

> It'd be nice to see some fresh tube rolling discussion again. It seems to have died off a lot lately, except for the WA22 thread. I was just debating whether to post impressions here or start a new thread when it came time to write up my own impressions. New threads always seem to attract little attention and just die.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DarKu

Hey guys could you give me some impressions of how 6SN7 and 6DN7 (with adapters) sound compared to 6DE7 or 6EW7 ??
 I want the best drive tubes in my WA6SE


----------



## bdr529

I asked jack about those and said they were a bad match for the 6se. Too much gain i think. I heard you need an extra resistor in the path to attenuate the signal.

  Quote:


 6SN7 is not well suited for the 6SE although with an adpator. It can be used on the WA6, however.


----------



## jc9394

Any WA6 owners have a DX1000? I want to get a DX1000 but I want to make sure my WA6 can pair it well.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys could you give me some impressions of how 6SN7 and 6DN7 (with adapters) sound compared to 6DE7 or 6EW7 ??
 I want the best drive tubes in my WA6SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I used to have Tung Sol 6DE7 and they are truly superb sounding tube. No need to go into 6SN7 with adapter at all.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys could you give me some impressions of how 6SN7 and 6DN7 (with adapters) sound compared to 6DE7 or 6EW7 ??
 I want the best drive tubes in my WA6SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wanna know too, just emailed Jack asked about availability of the 6SN7 to 6DE7 adapter for the 6SE. takezo has detail advises for both rectifiers and output tubes also what should be awared for those tubes use within the 6 and 6SE, worth reading.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5179633-post791.html


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any WA6 owners have a DX1000? I want to get a DX1000 but I want to make sure my WA6 can pair it well._

 

I've DX1000 with WA6SE but WA6, great synergy and sounds awesome.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've DX1000 with WA6SE but WA6, great synergy and sounds awesome._

 

Nice, I guess I will get a DX1000. Any chances you tried WA6SE with W5000?


----------



## dannie01

Sorry, I've never had a chance to try a W5000 out with 6SE. But since the 6SE is Class A transformer couple basis, the 64 Ohms DX1000 would be a good match with WA6 in low impedance driving mode.


----------



## dannie01

Hey jc, if you like the sounds of the W5000 then you should be awared the DX1000 is in the warmth side of sound signature but lush with a lot detail, not the bright sound of AT.


----------



## St3ve

Hi everyone, just a quick question for the WA6 folks. Is it safe to flick the impedance switch and change headphones whilst the amp is on? 

 At the moment I am playing it safe by turning the amp off and leaving it for a bit before switching impedance and phones.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey jc, if you like the sounds of the W5000 then you should be awared the DX1000 is in the warmth side of sound signature but lush with a lot detail, not the bright sound of AT._

 

That is exactly what I heard, I'm trying to find a used one first but if no go, I will just get a new one from Price Japan.


----------



## Clayton SF

Sorry. Duplicate Post.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone, just a quick question for the WA6 folks. Is it safe to flick the impedance switch and change headphones whilst the amp is on? 

 At the moment I am playing it safe by turning the amp off and leaving it for a bit before switching impedance and phones._

 

So here's an answer I got for you courtesy of K_19. Thanks K_19 and Jack Wu. This has been very helpful--to demystify the Woo!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K_19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of contacting the manufacturers, I got a response back from Jack of Woo Audio. I want to thank Jack for getting back to me in a timely manner and taking time to answer my questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, here's his response to my questions regarding WA6:
*
 1) What's the proper way to turn on WA6 with headphones? I ask this because I've read some stuff about it being harmful to the tube amp to turn it on without headphones in? Is this true? So far, I've turned on the WA6 without any headphones inserted (when I turn it on with headphones in, it gives the loud startup tube hum then goes away after about 5 seconds; I wasn't sure if this is harmful for headphones or not, so just to be on th safe side I unplugged it from there on), but plugged it in about 20 seconds later when the tube startup is done. So should I turn it on with headphones in or out (or does it even matter)? Just in case you may be concerned, yes, I always make sure the volume is down to zero when I turn it on or off.*

J: It is recommended to switch on the amp with a headphone on. This would avoid the amp being open circuit - not a good thing for any tube amps. You will not harm the amp at all if you leave an open circuit for a short period of time. The loud noise/abnormal sound is normal the tubes are warming up to get into the working state. A proper way to use the amp is 1) plug in your headphone, 2) mute the volume or stop your source 3) switch on the amp and let it warm up for at least 10 seconds, and that's all.

*2) I know the length for tube warmup for amp varies, but what I was wondering was; is it actually harmful for the amp/tube if I crank up the music right away without warming it? I realize the sound won't be optimal in the beginning but just wondering if this is actually a harmful practice to not warm it.
*
J: No harm at all.

*3) If I'm understanding correctly, the headphone should be plugged in at all times when warming up the amp, or else it's harmful. Is this correct?*

J: Same as 1. So again, it is a good practice when using a tube amp.

*4) Is it safe or unsafe to flick the impedence switch in the back while the amp is on/while the music is playing? I always thought no, so I've been turning it off every time before I do so, but wanted to make sure.*

J: You can change the impedance setting while the amp is on and music is playing.

 So I guess the way Jack recommends it is that I keep the headphones in the jack when I am turning it on, but apparently you won't harm your amp if you leave it as open circuit (without headphones in) for a short term._


----------



## St3ve

^ Nice one!^

 I was sure that info would be somewhere.


----------



## DoingOK

Hmmmm.....did not know the headphones should be plugged in when the amp is powered on. I hope it wasn't detrimental. I'm a headphone newb and I didn't get a manual 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, at least there is a new Sophia waiting for me along with new drive tubes when I get home....thank you postal fairy.

 Rich


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm.....did not know the headphones should be plugged in when the amp is powered on. I hope it wasn't detrimental. I'm a headphone newb and I didn't get a manual 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, at least there is a new Sophia waiting for me along with new drive tubes when I get home....thank you postal fairy.

 Rich_

 

Glad to see you got yours Rich - I remember you ordered yours around the same time as I.

 which driver tubes did Jack ship with yours? I got 6FD7s whereas I thought 6DE7s were stock.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to see you got yours Rich - I remember you ordered yours around the same time as I.

 which driver tubes did Jack ship with yours? I got 6FD7s whereas I thought 6DE7s were stock._

 

No clue....I'll have to look when I get home. Based on a little research, I grabbed the Sophia and some extra drive tubes. I'll have fun tweaking it a bit but my AKG 702's and WA6 are still very new (< 20 hours) so I'm not getting a good baseline to start with. I'm only home on weekends so I don't feel comfortable leaving my gear operating while I'm out of town for a burn in.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm only home on weekends so I don't feel comfortable leaving my gear operating while I'm out of town for a burn in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This would be a very bad idea, it is too dangerous and leads to no good result! Tubes need much patience, as everything else also.


----------



## midoo1990

I dismissed the idea of getting a new CAN,the hd650 does every genres well from trance to classical I now want to push them in to their full potential in terms of speed and clarity...especially speed,I hope I find woo3+ or woo6 in the for sale forum soon,anyone have one and dont want it because it sound terribly awful
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 give me a pm.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys,

 I got my WA3+ today but I'm having a problem. Well I hooked up the amp and everything, but am not getting any sound at all. The two 6DJ8's light up but the power tube does not light up at all. I also have the right voltage selected. One thing to note is that i get a hum in the left ear.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 I got my WA3+ today but I'm having a problem. Well I hooked up the amp and everything, but am not getting any sound at all. The two 6DJ8's light up but the power tube does not light up at all. I also have the right voltage selected. One thing to note is that i get a hum in the left ear._

 

It looks like a bad rectifier tube... You may wanna try another tube or contact Jack.


----------



## BIG POPPA

yeah it sounds like a bad power tube


----------



## Zombie_X

OK it was shipped with the tubes, but that power tube was floating around n the box by itself.It must have poped out of it's packaging during shipment.

 I thought it was the tube since it didn't light up at all.

 EDIT: I ordered the Sylvania upgrade tube for the amp yesterday, so hopefully it will be here before the weekend. Also where is WA located anyway's? I'm in Milwaukee WI and hope to have the tube soon!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK it was shipped with the tubes, but that power tube was floating around n the box by itself.It must have poped out of it's packaging during shipment.

 I thought it was the tube since it didn't light up at all.

 EDIT: I ordered the Sylvania upgrade tube for the amp yesterday, so hopefully it will be here before the weekend. Also where is WA located anyway's? I'm in Milwaukee WI and hope to have the tube soon!_

 

Woo Audio is located in Elmhurst, New York. I hope you get your tube soon.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_which driver tubes did Jack ship with yours? I got 6FD7s whereas I thought 6DE7s were stock._

 

This seems to be more common now. They used to all come with 6DE7, but I sent an email asking Jack for the RCA brand in particular if it were convenient for him. His reply said my amp would be coming with a Sylvania 6FD7 and that people seemed to really like this tube. Considering that 6DE7 is stamped right on the amp it's interesting the stock tubes aren't always the same. Jack must not consider the variations between the compatible types to be significant enough to worry about.

 As I thought about it I ended up liking the idea since it'd be good to sample a Sylvania so I have something to contrast against. I've been favoring the darker sounding tubes such as RCA as I've been buying and the Sylvania has a reputation for being brighter and leaner so it'll give me an idea of exactly how much sound variation exists between brands of the same type of tube.

 Speaking of 6FD7s...... I was thinking the other night about trying to obtain a Tung Sol. I only ever see people talk about RCA, Sylvania and GE when they talk 6FD7, but I did some research and it appears that other manufacturers did make 6FD7s. In some cases, like Zenith, they are just re-branded RCA or Sylvania, but I've confirmed that a Tung Sol 6FD7 exists and as far as I know Tung Sol never put their logo on other makers tubes. Considering how prized Tung Sols often are it might be worth finding out.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used to have Tung Sol 6DE7 and they are truly superb sounding tube. No need to go into 6SN7 with adapter at all._

 

I have a Tung Sol 6CY7 waiting to try when my amp shows up, but I'm really wanting to find a 6DE7 and others as well.


----------



## DoingOK

My WA6 shipped with Sylvania 6FD7's. I also purchased some RCA 6DE7's and I was surprised how much smaller they are than the 6FD7's. I also installed a new little girlfriend that I shall name "Sophia"....she is such a princess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just plugged it in 20 minutes ago:


----------



## Zombie_X

^ Nice looking amp man!! My WA3+ is red, but man that black looks slick!

 What brand cable you using there? It looks well made.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Nice looking amp man!! My WA3+ is red, but man that black looks slick!

 What brand cable you using there? It looks well made._

 

I'm trying these..... Flagship Line : ZX Amateur Cables

 They are using the Nucleotide UP-OCC Copper wire that Double Helix uses. Not bad for the price.


----------



## Covenant

UP-OCC is always a good bet, and that cable does look awesome. And those Sylvania 6FD7s are my favourite drive tubes. I'll bet that setup sounds good


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ My WA3+ is red_

 

Post a picture if you don't mind


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA6 shipped with Sylvania 6FD7's. I also purchased some RCA 6DE7's and I was surprised how much smaller they are than the 6FD7's. I also installed a new little girlfriend that I shall name "Sophia"....she is such a princess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just plugged it in 20 minutes ago:
_

 

Sooo lucky! I got 6DE7s and had to get 6FD7s elsewhere. 


 cheers!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA6 shipped with Sylvania 6FD7's. I also purchased some RCA 6DE7's and I was surprised how much smaller they are than the 6FD7's. I also installed a new little girlfriend that I shall name "Sophia"....she is such a princess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just plugged it in 20 minutes ago:
_

 

Looks great! I love the way you coiled your headphone cord. Very neat! 

 Oh yeah, good luck with your new setup!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Post a picture if you don't mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey atbglenn, congrats on your 1,111 post. What ever could that mean? Yes, I'd love to pictures of a red WA3+.


----------



## atbglenn

Gee thanks ClaytonSF, It was a long hard road, but somebody had to do it....Whatever that means

 Feeling any better??


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gee thanks ClaytonSF, It was a long hard road, but somebody had to do it....Whatever that means

 Feeling any better??_

 

No. I feel very bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may miss work again tomorrow. But I have one thing going for me that's distracting me from this ailment and that's music and the fact that I just ordered a Beyerdynamic DT990 600Ω headphone to plug into my Woo Amp. Actually staying home can put an equal strain on my wallet as well.

 P.S. I also cooked a big figgin' steak tonight. Now I can put on my headphones, turn on my Woo Amp and drift off into NyQuil-land.

 Thanks for asking.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks great! I love the way you coiled your headphone cord. Very neat! 

 Oh yeah, good luck with your new setup!_

 

Thanks........I'm listening to it now. I think it sounds fantastic and I'm curious to see how it improves over time. I'm hoping the bass opens up a bit more as others have said it will. A few weeks ago I didn't even own any "real" headphones......I guess I jumped in full force.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rich


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks........I'm listening to it now. I think it sounds fantastic and I'm curious to see how it improves over time. I'm hoping the bass opens up a bit more as others have said it will. A few weeks ago I didn't even own any "real" headphones......I guess I jumped in full force.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rich_

 

And what a great and good jump it was indeed! Enjoy!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No. I feel very bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may miss work again tomorrow. But I have one thing going for me that's distracting me from this ailment and that's music and the fact that I just ordered a Beyerdynamic DT990 600Ω headphone to plug into my Woo Amp. Actually staying home can put an equal strain on my wallet as well.

 P.S. I also cooked a big figgin' steak tonight. Now I can put on my headphones, turn on my Woo Amp and drift off into NyQuil-land.

 Thanks for asking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Get better soon my friend. Congrats on your DT990. I hope they sound great! 

 I had a simple dinner tonight. A couple of hot dogs, Heinz Vegetarian Beans, Sauerkraut, and some deli mustard. It tasted good, but now my stomach's doing strange things if you know what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get better soon my friend. Congrats on your DT990. I hope they sound great! 

 I had a simple dinner tonight. A couple of hot dogs, Heinz Vegetarian Beans, Sauerkraut, and some deli mustard. It tasted good, but now my stomach's doing strange things if you know what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





._

 

OMG. You devoured Neutron Star Material. Look OUT! Just take two 6FD7 tubes and insert them in your WA6 and call me in the morning. Well, maybe don't call me in the morning, BUT LISTEN TO YOUR WA6 tonight and things will settle down. I've noticed that people like Sylvania tubes. Did Sylvania make their own tubes or was their name just stamped on the someone elses tubes? Hum?


----------



## tosehee

There is red woo amp? I didn't know that.. Post a pic!~!!~!


----------



## BIG POPPA




----------



## Zombie_X

Sorry gonna post one right now for ya.

 EDIT:


----------



## tosehee

Wow. Looks nice, but I think it could be 'redder'... I guess I like my silver better..


----------



## BIG POPPA

Black base with red cap on top Black widowesque


----------



## Seamaster

Crap, I knew I could get a pink WA22, but Jack said NO.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is red woo amp? I didn't know that.. Post a pic!~!!~!_

 

Jack said he would make a red 5le for a little extra! After some thought, I think I would go with gold for number two.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Sylvania ECG NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 came in today replacing the earlier Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 which has approx 750 hours. Bought this off eBay at reason price and shipped to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Applied SilClear and burn in before serious listening.


----------



## TheStixter

Is the Teflon tube sockets upgrade worth getting or will the normal sockets work just the same?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheStixter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Teflon tube sockets upgrade worth getting or will the normal sockets work just the same?_

 

The stock tube sockets are fine. The Teflon's look really nice but they will not improve the SQ. If you're going to be swapping tubes everyday like some people here, you might be better off with the Teflon's since the socket grabs the tube pin all the way around rather than just the sides. They _might_ last longer under those conditions

 Teflon Tube Socket





 Stock Woo Socket


----------



## h.rav

^ They recently changed the stock tube sockets to this


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ They recently changed the stock tube sockets to this 



_

 

WOW those are nice! Then there's no real reason to upgrade!


----------



## CrazyRay

I love close-up shots!!
 Very nice!!!


----------



## dannie01

The new socket looks nicer.


----------



## midoo1990

Does jack only accept paypal?doesnt he consider picking up cash as a payment method?no one seem to want to sell their woo6 and my country doesnt support paypal and i cant write checks because i am not 21 yet,so things are not working out for me


----------



## aRRR

What about a bank transfer.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does jack only accept paypal? Doesn't he consider picking up cash as a payment method? No one seem to want to sell their woo6 and my country doesn't support paypal and I cant write checks because I am not 21 yet, so things are not working out for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why don't you ask Jack directly at Woo Audio. Finding the appropriate payment method for you isn't a suitable topic for this thread.


----------



## midoo1990

i emailed jack but no response yet and i am afraid he become embarresed to say no so he wont repond to me,thats why i ask if anyone experrianced that before,i dont know whats inappropriate in what i am asking here!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i emailed jack but no response yet and i am afraid he become embarresed to say no so he wont repond to me,thats why i ask if anyone experrianced that before,i dont know whats inappropriate in what i am asking here!_

 


 When did you email him? Sometimes it takes him a couple of days to respond. He's been real busy lately.. Don't worry, you can ask any question you like. What you asked was not inappropriate as far as I'm concerned..


----------



## midoo1990

oh my God,just got an email from jack and he agreed
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







,I am gonna pay him on sunday,what an incredible person,thanks jack.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh my God, just got an email from Jack and he agreed, I am gonna pay him on Sunday, what an incredible person, thanks Jack._

 

Hallelujah!


----------



## midoo1990

Not a miracle,I just got over excited as I didn't expect Jack to approve.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ They recently changed the stock tube sockets to this 
 (picture of snazzy new tube socket)_

 

I seem to have the older, white, tube sockets in my new WA6.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not a miracle,I just got over excited as I didn't expect Jack to approve._

 

Nice one midoo, what are you going for? a 3+ or a 6?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh my God,just got an email from jack and he agreed
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







,I am gonna pay him on sunday,what an incredible person,thanks jack._

 

Jack and his family are wonderful folks. And there amps reflect there commitment to excellence. 

 ss


----------



## midoo1990

I am going for the woo6+Sophia tube after all the glowing reviews about how good they are with the hd650


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am going for the woo6+Sophia tube after all the glowing reviews about how good they are with the hd650_

 

HD650 through a Woo6 with sophia is what I am listen to right now - Absolutely beautiful sound. Well worth the wait.


----------



## midoo1990

I hope so,I have been collecting this amount of money for 11 months,I hope it's worth it.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope so,I have been collecting this amount of money for 11 months,I hope it's worth it._

 

If you aren't happy with it, you can sell it back for nearly no money loss.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you aren't happy with it, you can sell it back for nearly no money loss._

 

There is one chappy who has had a WTB going for about 2 months. In fact the most common amp WTBs on this forum seem to be for a wooX.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is one chappy who has had a WTB going for about 2 months. In fact the most common amp WTBs on this forum seem to be for a wooX._

 

I've got this feeling you are referring to me


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got this feeling you are referring to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha could well be. You should be given an award for 'Most Committed WTB in history'. Seriously though, all the best with your search - when you do finally get hold of one it will be all the sweeter.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you aren't happy with it, you can sell it back for nearly no money loss._

 

I don't know about getting all the money back, but you sure will not have a problem selling it.

 I posted that I was thinking about upgrading my WA6SE max to a WA5 LE and I got two PMs asking if I was going to sell my WA6SE max.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know about getting all the money back, but you sure will not have a problem selling it.

 I posted that I was thinking about upgrading my WA6SE max to a WA5 LE and I got two PMs asking if I was going to sell my WA6SE max.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss_

 

I got more than 10 PMs inquiring my WA6SEM but I just can't afford to eat the shipping cost to USA/EU. I will consider selling it locally or at most to neighboring countries.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha could well be. You should be given an award for 'Most Committed WTB in history'. Seriously though, all the best with your search - when you do finally get hold of one it will be all the sweeter._

 

I feel I do require an award for all those posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , the moderator wasn't very enthusiastic about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,has made me stick to one post per 2 days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your wishes, I know it will be awesome once I do get it


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know about getting all the money back, but you sure will not have a problem selling it.

 I posted that I was thinking about upgrading my WA6SE max to a WA5 LE and I got two PMs asking if I was going to sell my WA6SE max.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss_

 

Hey SS, I'm also thinking to sell my WA6SE (with up-grade BG caps mod by myself) to fund for a WA22 instead of WA5 LE, it's too much.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey SS, I'm also thinking to sell my WA6SE (with up-grade BG caps mod by myself) to fund for a WA22 instead of WA5 LE, it's too much._

 

Love the picture of your Cat.

 My Cat looks just like yours.

 I was thinking about the WA22 but after following Seamaster comments on his new WA22, I felt I wouldn't be gaining anything and maybe going backwards. 

 Balanced amps don't do much for me. I tried out RSA personal B-52 with his balanced HD-800s and then my SE HD-800 and didn't feel the cost was justifiable over my WA6SE max. 

 Yes the WA5 LE is very expensive and I do believe in getting the upgraded parts package, upgraded pot (RK-50) along with the best tube combination I can come up with. I did the same thing with my WA6SE and never looked back. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Thanks SS but unfortunately he passed away in a month before his 10 years old birthday on last Dec, really a sad time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the WA22, I was mostly tempted by Seamaster's posts, thanks mate, and he has a great detail review on tubes rolling, really helpful. I don't have a chance to try the HD800 but I have great result in my DX1000 re-cabled in balanced briven by a balanced B22 source with Linn Akurate DS, with huge improvement and sounds really great. That's why I'm thinking let go my WA6SE and purchase the WA22.


----------



## midoo1990

what colour is better to order in the woo6?i am leaning more towards the silver one,it makes it look more expensive
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the black is more classy,what do you think guys?


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What colour is better to order in the woo6? I am leaning more towards the silver one, it makes it look more expensive, but the black is more classy, what do you think guys?_

 

It is a pity that the colour "Champaign" is not offered, that would be rather after my taste.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what colour is better to order in the woo6?i am leaning more towards the silver one,it makes it look more expensive
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the black is more classy,what do you think guys?_

 

It's all a matter of taste. Silver is my preference. Black is nice, but it shows dust a lot more easily than silver. Whatever you choose, I'm sure it will look great..


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what colour is better to order in the woo6?i am leaning more towards the silver one,it makes it look more expensive
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the black is more classy,what do you think guys?_

 

I initially ordered silver, but Jack emailed me to say that if I went black he would ship two weeks sooner. So I went for black (colour isn't important to me). Presumably he had a shortage of silver cases at the time. Still it might be worth asking him, if you are impatient like me.


----------



## tosehee

There is no such thing as better color. Just personal taste and match with your current gear


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a pity that the colour "Champaign" is not offered, that would be rather after my taste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Champagne is beautiful. I have a couple of old Kenwood pieces in that color


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Champagne is beautiful. I have a couple of old Kenwood pieces in that color._

 

Your system is phantastic Glenn, I love vintage electronics from the 70ies. Sansui has still some expensive vintage amplifiers in Champaign in the running programm. After a good refurbishment is everything as good as brand new, or probably better depending on the used components.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your system is phantastic Glenn, I love vintage electronics from the 70ies. Sansui has still some expensive vintage amplifiers in Champaign in the running programm. After a good refurbishment is everything as good as brand new, or probably better depending on the used components. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The tuner still works beautifully after all these years. The amp doesn't sound very good anymore, so I don't use it. It's just there to fill the spot and look pretty. One of these days I'll get my ass in gear and rebuild it. I keep saying that. LOL!


----------



## AcousticDreams

Back to the colours, technically it seems not to be a problem, if you take a look to *this* picture!!? Maybe there are not enough customers asking for it.


----------



## midoo1990

i"ll go for the black to match my hd650 colour,they both look elegant though,i"ll pay jack tomorrrow morning(sunday).


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i"ll go for the black to match my hd650 colour,they both look elegant though,i"ll pay jack tomorrrow morning(sunday)._

 

Beware black is a DUST COLLECTOR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , my experience.


----------



## midoo1990

dammit,i will go for the silver then
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.IS The sophia tube still the best for it or should i cancel it and look for other recommended tube?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Champagne is beautiful. I have a couple of old Kenwood pieces in that color




_

 

You really do have a nice collection of vintage and modern equipment. Old becomes new again. Aren't you happy you held on to them?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Champagne is beautiful. I have a couple of old Kenwood pieces in that color




_

 

Hey Glenn, your Kenwoods look very similar that CrazyRay's owned below, both very nice equipment.


----------



## SleazyC

I've searched through the thread and around the site a bit, but I am curious if anyone has any impressions with a WA6 and Audio-Technica's ESW10JPN's. I am looking for a nice amp that will power these and future headphones and really like the aesthetics of the WA6 as well as the feedback I have read in this thread.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You really do have a nice collection of vintage and modern equipment. Old becomes new again. Aren't you happy you held on to them?_

 

Clayton, yes I am. They remind me of my youth. I purchased them when I was 20. (1972)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Glenn, your Kenwoods look very similar that CrazyRay's owned below, both very nice equipment.
_

 


 Danny, I think those are Pioneer's if I'm not mistaken. CrazyRay's got some really nice equipment!


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Danny, I think those are Pioneer's if I'm not mistaken._

 

Yes it is, Pioneer SA-xxxx + Pioneer TX-xxxx, this combination is legendary and was very successful at this time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the colours, technically it seems not to be a problem, if you take a look to *this* picture!!? Maybe there are not enough customers asking for it._

 

I think the pewter color is rather striking personally. I wondered a bit why those colors are showcased on the website but aren't actually available to order.


----------



## kunalraiker

I still would go with the silver,it really brings out the value of the chassis, makes it stand apart compared to other chinese chassis.

 I wonder why other manufacturers don't try find out about this chassis manufacturer in china.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still would go with the silver,it really brings out the value of the chassis, makes it stand apart compared to other chinese chassis.

 I wonder why other manufacturers don't try find out about this chassis manufacturer in china._

 

Indeed, there is something about chunky aluminium that looks nice 'au naturale'. I had hoped for a silver one - but it would have meant waiting longer. However, I am very pleasantly surprised with the black finish, It isn't solid black in colour, it has a nice textured look (and feel) to it, and when the light hits it you get quite a nice silver-streak effect.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, there is something about chunky aluminium that looks nice 'au naturale'. I had hoped for a silver one - but it would have meant waiting longer. However, I am very pleasantly surprised with the black finish, It isn't solid black in colour, it has a nice textured look (and feel) to it, and when the light hits it you get quite a nice silver-streak effect._

 

Its nice to hear that you are enjoying the chassis, what was the wait for the silver, sure it wouldn't be very long.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its nice to hear that you are enjoying the chassis, what was the wait for the silver, sure it wouldn't be very long._

 

About 2 weeks difference - The difference between him shipping mid-feb or the end of feb. Considering I ordered as the end of jan, I took the opportunity to have mine shipped after only 2 weeks - and I am pretty happy with that considering I was quoted a 3-4 week wait when I ordered.

 The chassis quality is wonderful, it makes my macbook pro look, and feel, like a cheap toy!


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About 2 weeks difference - The difference between him shipping mid-feb or the end of feb. Considering I ordered as the end of jan, I took the opportunity to have mine shipped after only 2 weeks - and I am pretty happy with that considering I was quoted a 3-4 week wait when I ordered.

 The chassis quality is wonderful, it makes my macbook pro look, and feel, like a cheap toy!_

 

I've got a macbook pro, mate are you kidding, is the chassis better then our 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





exy mackbook silver ionised finish.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a macbook pro, mate are you kidding, is the chassis better then our 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




exy mackbook silver ionised finish._

 

Well, perhaps 'cheap toy' was going a bit far - but the heft of these amps makes it seem very substantial. There must be a bit of the luddite left in me that equates weight with value. You feel you have got your money's worth before you have even switched it on. I wonder if Jack could be convinced to do me a custom job made entirely out of granite, marble and pig-iron.....


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, perhaps 'cheap toy' was going a bit far - but the heft of these amps makes it seem very substantial. There must be a bit of the luddite left in me that equates weight with value. You feel you have got your money's worth before you have even switched it on. I wonder if Jack could be convinced to do me a custom job made entirely out of granite, marble and pig-iron....._

 

I would recommend you to try stainless steel L Grade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "L" Grades

 The "L" grades are used to provide extra corrosion resistance after welding. The letter "L" after a stainless steel type indicates low carbon (as in 304L). The carbon is kept to .03% or under to avoid carbide precipitation. Carbon in steel when heated to temperatures in what is called the critical range (800 degrees F to 1600 degrees F) precipitates out, combines with the chromium and gathers on the grain boundaries. This deprives the steel of the chromium in solution and promotes corrosion adjacent to the grain boundaries. By controlling the amount of carbon, this is minimized. For weldability, the "L" grades are used. You may ask why all stainless steels are not produced as "L" grades. There are a couple of reasons: 

 "L" grades are more expensive
 Carbon, at high temperatures imparts great physical strength
 Frequently the mills are buying their raw material in "L" grades, but specifying the physical properties of the straight grade to retain straight grade strength. A case of having your cake and heating it too. This results in the material being dual certified 304/304L; 316/316L, etc.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, perhaps 'cheap toy' was going a bit far - but the heft of these amps makes it seem very substantial. There must be a bit of the luddite left in me that equates weight with value. You feel you have got your money's worth before you have even switched it on. I wonder if Jack could be convinced to do me a custom job made entirely out of granite, marble and pig-iron....._

 

I'd like to see a vintage-style Woo Audio amp with wood on parts of the chassis. Perhaps some nicely cut mahogany.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to see a vintage-style Woo Audio amp with wood on parts of the chassis. Perhaps some nicely cut mahogany._

 

Well, perhaps if Grado ever takes another stab at the amp business they could collaborate with their fellow NY makers. A special Grado/Woo ( like Woo has going on with the Stax/WES deal) Headphone+Amp package would be something to have!! (sighs as fantasy drifts away)


----------



## KBerube80

I plan on purchasing a Woo Audio amp to pair with my newly acquired HD600's. How much better is the WA6 compared to the WA3+ ? If there is a big difference, I have no problem putting down the extra cash, but only if it is substantial.


----------



## Zombie_X

Whoah! I pulled out the stock GE powertube and put it backwards and it works! This is odd and the tube is functional I guess.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoah! I pulled out the stock GE powertube and put it backwards and it works! This is odd and the tube is functional I guess._

 

That is awkward... Maybe it is just a loose grip on the tube socket.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I was in the same boat. Chose the 3+ partly because the tubes it uses. It is completely maxxed out too with blackgates,teflon sockets, WBT rca's and Furutech rhodium IEC. It freakin' rocks


----------



## Zombie_X

Any other consensus on my dilemma? It's odd for the tube to suddenly start working out of no where.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KBerube80* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plan on purchasing a Woo Audio amp to pair with my newly acquired HD600's. How much better is the WA6 compared to the WA3+ ? If there is a big difference, I have no problem putting down the extra cash, but only if it is substantial._

 

I feel its absolutely clear if you read this whole thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jokes apart, the WA6 is not simple Woo Audio most selling amp.Also make sure you get the Sophia Tube Rectifier as the upgrade.


----------



## BIG POPPA

To me the Sophia was a turn off. You get the tube you are done. Nothing better, end of story. I like that with 3+, I have GEC, Bendix, and Mullard to roll with. Tube rolling is a big deal to me.


----------



## midoo1990

Well,I paid Jack this morning for woo6+Sophia and now the wait begins


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Patience will pays well in the next couple of weeks. Hang on and welcome to the club.


----------



## midoo1990

I am sure it will pay off seeing all of you using woo6 and hd650 makes me more confident.I am not impatient so if it will take a month from now no problem.....….........................who am I kidding,I want it now


----------



## midoo1990

Sorry D. Post.


----------



## RTF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me the Sophia was a turn off. You get the tube you are done. Nothing better, end of story. I like that with 3+, I have GEC, Bendix, and Mullard to roll with. Tube rolling is a big deal to me._

 

I'm sure this has been discussed but how do you like the Sylvania 7236 that Jack sells with the wa3+?, I'm thinking of getting one for mine.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me the Sophia was a turn off. You get the tube you are done. Nothing better, end of story. I like that with 3+, I have GEC, Bendix, and Mullard to roll with. Tube rolling is a big deal to me._

 

I held off on the Sophia partly for this reason too. More fun to try a few things and have a good time experimenting with tubes. Plus, if you give it a year and begin to feel some kind of upgrade itch the Sophia can give an instant boost to performance that may stay that off. That's my logic anyway, though I seriously doubt I will last to the end of this year without going the Sophia route. I'm trying to control how many rectifiers I buy until then because they will all just become backups after that.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RTF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure this has been discussed but how do you like the Sylvania 7236 that Jack sells with the wa3+?, I'm thinking of getting one for mine._

 

It's a good tube. Have nicer tubes to listen to at the moment. Will listen to it every once and a while.


----------



## midoo1990

So Jack received my payment and I sent him my shipping informations and so and he told me that the amp will take 4 weeks to be build!I am gonna die heeeeere waiting for it.....


----------



## Superfrag

Dont worry.. the wait's worth it.. lol.
 It took around 3 and half weeks to reach me.(black)
 AFAIK, silver had a longer waiting period


----------



## midoo1990

the silver one is better so if it will take more,i dont mind.


----------



## Superfrag

Yup.. its a huge amount and you would definitely want what you want/expect. I went for black cause the rest of my setup was black in color, and for some reason I don't like silver..


----------



## tosehee

Use the waiting time for your advantage. it's a great time to read up on tubes and such to prepare you for an ultimate tube rolling..


----------



## BIG POPPA

Start buying some tubes and accessories for the amp coming. It will help the wait time.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Start buying some tubes and accessories for the amp coming. It will help the wait time._

 

Slowly BIG POPPA, ... slowly, first he has to stop jumping around like a crazy monkey. As long as he's not knowing what he wants is it senseless to discuss things like tube rolling. Look at him, at first he can't wait and "is going to die", and in the next posting we read a contrary statement from him?!!


----------



## Zombie_X

Well I got my Sylvania 7236 in today and it is far better than stock. It's a ton more dynamic then the stock GE tube, and the bass is deeper and tighter and is also fast. Another thing is that the mids are also sweeter and the sound is a bit more detailed. Soundstaging and imaging is also improved a lot. The stock tube had a much narrower stage to it.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I got my Sylvania 7236 in today and it is far better than stock. It's a ton more dynamic then the stock GE tube, and the bass is deeper and tighter and is also fast. Another thing is that the mids are also sweeter and the sound is a bit more detailed. Soundstaging and imaging is also improved a lot. The stock tube had a much narrower stage to it._

 

Yep, I noticed the same things when I upgraded my stock tubes to TS 7236s.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Definitely a great upgrade, and it doesn't put a big dent in the wallet.


----------



## Superfrag

I have a pair of 6FD7's with the Sophia Princess. Are there better driver tubes or the 6FD7's are good enough?


----------



## masterchoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Jack received my payment and I sent him my shipping informations and so and he told me that the amp will take 4 weeks to be build!I am gonna die heeeeere waiting for it....._

 

I just ordered wa6se black with sophia and Jack told me to wait 4 weeks too


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Slowly BIG POPPA, ... slowly, first he has to stop jumping around like a crazy monkey. As long as he's not knowing what he wants is it senseless to discuss things like tube rolling. Look at him, at first he can't wait and "is going to die", and in the next posting we read a contrary statement from him?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

You just don't get it when someone is joking right?I ofcourse won't die waiting for it,IT WAS A JOKE so move on.beside I am satisfied by the waiting because I am busy at this time in university so I don't want anything to distract me.calm down and stop attacking me and stop using this sarcastic tone.
 Big Popa:I thaught that Sophia tube is the best one for woo6,is there is/are better tubes?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You just don't get it when someone is joking right?I ofcourse won't die waiting for it,IT WAS A JOKE so move on.beside I am satisfied by the waiting because I am busy at this time in university so I don't want anything to distract me.calm down and stop attacking me and stop using this sarcastic tone.
 Big Popa:I thaught that Sophia tube is the best one for woo6,is there is/are better tubes?_

 

It is the favorite around here. There are more brands if you look around.


----------



## AcousticDreams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You just don't get it when someone is joking right? I of course won't die waiting for it, IT WAS A JOKE so move on. Beside I am satisfied by the waiting because I am busy at this time in university so I don't want anything to distract me._

 

Go back to your studies and get a life midoo, your jokes are not funny. It would be better you concentrate yourself for something constructive, instead of stammering around about things which you did not understand obviously.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Start buying some tubes and accessories for the amp coming. It will help the wait time._

 

It also puts a big dent in your wallet if you go overboard like I've done. I look at it this way: I have all the tubes I will never need for the amp, plus I like to be thorough in investigating the possibilities tube rolling has to offer.

 Going to try to track down a couple more Tung Sols then I think I better call it quits. I want to see if the unicorn (Tung Sol 6FD7) exists.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go back to your studies and get a life midoo, your jokes are not funny. It would be better you concentrate yourself for something constructive, instead of stammering around about things which you did not understand obviously. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is this exchange necessary? He hasn't said anything to justify your hostile tone towards him.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Big Popa:I thaught that Sophia tube is the best one for woo6,is there is/are better tubes?_

 

My opinion: if you've already committed to the Sophia then I would not worry about rectifiers period. It seems like you are anxious about finding the best tube combination right out of the gate, but since you've already made your choice I would just have some confidence it was the right one and wait for the amp to arrive and hear the results for yourself. 

 Allow me to pass along some conclusions I've drawn from a month or so of reading old threads here. Just keep in mind this is all "FWIR" and not my personal observations. There are a few NOS metal base tubes, such as the 5U4G, and also the new production EML 274B Mesh, which are in the same league as the Sophia and possibly a bit better but they do not really sound "better" so much as just different. Each has their strengths but there is no tube that stands clearly above the Sophia in performance. The above mentioned are also more expensive, the NOS metal base tubes can be significantly more expensive and the subtle differences in sound won't justify the prices. I think the Sophia is the logical "end game" tube to use full time in the Woo 6/6SE unless you have a LOT of money to spend experimenting. In that case such a person would probably have a WA22 or other more expensive amp anyway.

 For you and the couple of other new WA6 owners who have posted recently, I'll be doing some humble write ups on my own tube rolling adventures as soon as my amp arrives, which should be very soon now since I ordered over 3 weeks ago. Hopefully somebody will find it helpful and can avoid having to buy as many tubes as I have to explore the subject. Unless of course you're having a good time doing it, in which case the money is probably well spent.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My opinion: . There are a few NOS metal base tubes, such as the 5U4G, and also the new production EML 274B Mesh, which are in the same league as the Sophia and possibly a bit better but they do not really sound "better" so much as just different. Each has their strengths but there is no tube that stands clearly above the Sophia in performance. The above mentioned are also more expensive, the NOS metal base tubes can be significantly more expensive and the subtle differences in sound won't justify the prices. . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

1st the WA6 is not the same amp as the WA6SE, so its hard for a owner of a WA6SEmax like mine to say what tubes will work better than others for a WA6.

 2nd, as far as a WA6SE goes the nos EML 274B solid plate will make a fairly big difference over a Princes. The differences are that the solid plate has a better out of head soundstage and is more transient. 

 The New EML 5U4G mesh is also very interesting, it is also more transient as the nos EML 274B solid plate. The new EML 5U4G mesh also has a better Sub-Bass than the other two tubes and also a little sweeter. However the soundsatge is smaller than the EML 274B solid and about the same as the Princes. Also in both of the EML tubes they have better detail than the Princes. 
 However the ELM's as you pointed out are more expensive.

 For your 701 headphones and WA6SE my recommendation for tubes are 6EW7 RCA big bottle silver top tip (circa 1963 if you can find them or newer is fine) and the New EML 5U4G mesh.

 ss


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcousticDreams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go back to your studies and get a life midoo, your jokes are not funny. It would be better you concentrate yourself for something constructive, instead of stammering around about things which you did not understand obviously. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I reported you to one of the moderators because I don't know why you are attacking me and you still continue to do so.I said this is my first tube amp and I don't know anything about tube rolling and technicalities,but I read the thread that describes how tube amps work and I try to learn as much as I can and I read alot about tubes and different amps so I am not blind in this area.I don't remember that I attacked you anywhere on headfi so I don't get your attitude towards me,instead of trying to bash me,give me some sort of advice like members do here in this thread like Big Poppa and others.


----------



## midoo1990

Sorry D.post


----------



## RTF

My WA3+ shipped out today just as I picked up some IBM 5998's, a RCA 6as7g, and some RCA 6dj8's, can't wait. How important is it that the drive tubes be a matched pair? What happens if they aren't?


----------



## tosehee

Midoo. There are ways you can describe things and get your reputations up. Your post doesn't seem to be really mature either from my humble opinion.

 As for the tubes, EML and Sophia are both great. There are other great tubes if you do the search. There is also dedicated WA6 and WA6SE tube thread where you can learn a great deal.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Midoo. There are ways you can describe things and get your reputations up. Your post doesn't seem to be really mature either from my humble opinion.

 As for the tubes, EML and Sophia are both great. There are other great tubes if you do the search. There is also dedicated WA6 and WA6SE tube thread where you can learn a great deal._

 

What should I do?you tell me.he attacked me and he is trying to make fun of me and he is criticizing my posts and I never went into a debat with him before.if you have seen some of my posts in the full size headphones thread,I got alot of debat and alot of headfiers disagreed with what I said about k701 but no one criticized me or attacked me personally like Acousticdream did.I accept hot debat and I have been in more than one before here but I don't accept someone I didn't even talk to or assulted him in someway to attack me.if you have another solution for this unfortune situation except telling one of the moderators please tell me.


----------



## Superfrag

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of 6FD7's with the Sophia Princess. Are there better driver tubes or the 6FD7's are good enough?_

 

Anyone?
 Im pairing my WA6 with the K701 and the W1000(and soon to come HF2)


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What should I do?you tell me.he attacked me and he is trying to make fun of me and he is criticizing my posts and I never went into a debat with him before.if you have seen some of my posts in the full size headphones thread,I got alot of debat and alot of headfiers disagreed with what I said about k701 but no one criticized me or attacked me personally like Acousticdream did.I accept hot debat and I have been in more than one before here but I don't accept someone I didn't even talk to or assulted him in someway to attack me.if you have another solution for this unfortune situation except telling one of the moderators please tell me._

 

My dad always told me that you can't clap a hand with one hand.. It takes two hand to clap.. Whatever it is (which I don't have a full understanding of) could have been handled far better than that, again, imo. Also, these types of posts don't add anything to the Woo Owner's thread. This is totally off-topic which could/should have been handled through PM and such.

 Just a thought.


----------



## midoo1990

i could have taken this to pm with him,but with such attitude i dont think he would even look at my pms.i am sorry guys if i have taken this matter this far,i will stop now and let the impressions flow.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i could have taken this to pm with him,but with such attitude i dont think he would even look at my pms.i am sorry guys if i have taken this matter this far,i will stop now and let the impressions flow._

 

Midoo1990,
 When I ordered my first Woo in Sept. 2009 I got so excited about the order and very impatient because of the wait that I shared that giddiness with everyone on this thread but never was made fun of. I am sorry to hear that these unfortunate exchanges have happened. At any rate, welcome to the club and I know you'll get hundreds of hours of listening pleasure and a few headaches along the way from trying to roll just the right tubes! I'll offer some help along the way if I can.


----------



## midoo1990

thanks Clayton really appreciate it,i will definetly need for your help when i want to fiddle with tubes


----------



## TheWuss

As of 8:30 am central time today, i am a proud owner of a WA6, black, with (now standard) pseudo dual power supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 aside from a doofus mistake of not knowing it comes without a power cord, everything else is great.
 I had to borrow a power cord from an unused cpu at work. hahaha. what a newbie i am!!
 i only got to listen for about 15 minutes during my lunch hour, but i must say this thing has juice to spare.
 it powered my DT990 600 ohms to a loudness that made the skin on my face tingle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 not that i'll be listening at that level. i just had to know how loud it would go...

 i can also honestly say that when i first turned it on i was pretty underwhelmed. then, over the first couple minutes as the tubes warmed up, it just went kaboom, and the sound just really started making the air move! if you know what i mean... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i was sad to have to go back to work...


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheWuss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As of 8:30 am central time today, i am a proud owner of a WA6, black, with (now standard) pseudo dual power supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 aside from a doofus mistake of not knowing it comes without a power cord, everything else is great.
 I had to borrow a power cord from an unused cpu at work. hahaha. what a newbie i am!!
 i only got to listen for about 15 minutes during my lunch hour, but i must say this thing has juice to spare.
 it powered my DT990 600 ohms to a loudness that made the skin on my face tingle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 not that i'll be listening at that level. i just had to know how loud it would go...

 i can also honestly say that when i first turned it on i was pretty underwhelmed. then, over the first couple minutes as the tubes warmed up, it just went kaboom, and the sound just really started making the air move! if you know what i mean... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i was sad to have to go back to work..._

 

Welcome to the club, and welcome to Midoo too.


----------



## midoo1990

Thx st3eve.


----------



## danmagicman7

Have any other WA6 owners noticed that their amp vibrates to the music?

 If you turn up your music a bit, and place your finger on the volume nob, press down slightly, and sit still, you'll feel what I'm talking about.

 At first I thought I still had my speakers on, but they were off.

 Is this...normal . Are the tubes just pulsing to the tunes?


----------



## TheWuss

thanks, st3ve!
 i'm glad to be a member of the club!
 for what it's worth, jack wu is one of the finest businessmen i've ever had the pleasure of buying something from.
 a total stand-up guy. honest, fair, cordial.
 and, he quoted me a delivery time for the WA6, and beat it by a couple days. of course, your mileage may vary, but i have absolutely nothing but the utmost respect for Woo Audio.
 cheers!


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *danmagicman7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have any other WA6 owners noticed that their amp vibrates to the music?

 If you turn up your music a bit, and place your finger on the volume nob, press down slightly, and sit still, you'll feel what I'm talking about.

 At first I thought I still had my speakers on, but they were off.

 Is this...normal . Are the tubes just pulsing to the tunes?_

 

I've never noticed that with any tube amps. It may be the transformer that's vibrating?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *danmagicman7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have any other WA6 owners noticed that their amp vibrates to the music?

 If you turn up your music a bit, and place your finger on the volume nob, press down slightly, and sit still, you'll feel what I'm talking about.

 At first I thought I still had my speakers on, but they were off.

 Is this...normal . Are the tubes just pulsing to the tunes?_

 

Just checked my WA6. Even at high volume levels, there's no noticeable vibration. Anyone else?


----------



## Superfrag

Nope! No vibration here!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of 6FD7's with the Sophia Princess. Are there better driver tubes or the 6FD7's are good enough?_

 

Anyone?
 Im pairing my WA6 with the K701 and the W1000(and soon to come HF2)

 Also, which cables are you'll using for interconnects? Right now my whole system is connected and powered by monoprice cables. Was thinking of getting cables from Blue Jeans.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *danmagicman7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have any other WA6 owners noticed that their amp vibrates to the music?

 If you turn up your music a bit, and place your finger on the volume nob, press down slightly, and sit still, you'll feel what I'm talking about.

 At first I thought I still had my speakers on, but they were off.

 Is this...normal . Are the tubes just pulsing to the tunes?_

 

Nope, I can't feel any vibration (WA 6)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope! No vibration here!



 Anyone?
 Im pairing my WA6 with the K701 and the W1000(and soon to come HF2)

 Also, which cables are you'll using for interconnects? Right now my whole system is connected and powered by monoprice cables. Was thinking of getting cables from Blue Jeans._

 

I'm using 6FD7's (RCAs and GE's) with my K701s. I also have RCA 6DE7's. The 6FD7's are definitely my favorites with the 701s, to my ears, they improved the bass response of the AKG's. My interconnects are nothing to write home about, regular Acoustic Research RCAs.

 cheers!


----------



## DoingOK

oops....double post.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, which cables are you'll using for interconnects? Right now my whole system is connected and powered by monoprice cables. Was thinking of getting cables from Blue Jeans._

 

I'm using Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 cables. My WA6 is 16 feet away from my preamp/DAC and I have ZERO noise or issues. Very good quality cable for non-exorbitant pricing.


----------



## tosehee

I also have LC-1 for speaker setup, and they are great. Very well constructed and the contact is great too.

 For my headphone rig, I use the Transcendence from PS audio


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For your 701 headphones and WA6SE my recommendation for tubes are 6EW7 RCA big bottle silver top tip (circa 1963 if you can find them or newer is fine) and the New EML 5U4G mesh.

 ss_

 

Based on information I've read from takezo and others I was planning to start with the 5V4G because of its reputation for a lush midrange. Nearly everything I listen to, be it speaker or headphone, sounds too bright. Thin and piercing. I'm planning to try a wide variety of tubes to find whichever combo is the darkest sounding without being veiled or obscuring texture and detail retrieval. Do you think any of the EML tubes would do a better job of this than the Sophia? I'd pay the price premium if they match the detail of the Princess but offer a more relaxed top end, but I really don't want to go around buying rectifiers at this price just to experiment. Many thanks for sharing your opinions.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, which cables are you'll using for interconnects? Right now my whole system is connected and powered by monoprice cables. Was thinking of getting cables from Blue Jeans._

 

I use analog twos from Signal Cable in all my gear, and have picked up another pair for my WA6 which ought to be at my door within the week now.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based on information I've read from takezo and others I was planning to start with the 5V4G because of its reputation for a lush midrange. Nearly everything I listen to, be it speaker or headphone, sounds too bright. Thin and piercing. I'm planning to try a wide variety of tubes to find whichever combo is the darkest sounding without being veiled or obscuring texture and detail retrieval. Do you think any of the EML tubes would do a better job of this than the Sophia? I'd pay the price premium if they match the detail of the Princess but offer a more relaxed top end, but I really don't want to go around buying rectifiers at this price just to experiment. Many thanks for sharing your opinions._

 

from what you've described, trying the mullard GZ32, the english equiv. of the
 5v4g, may be what you're looking for. and don't count out the non-metal-base
 GZ34, especially the older F31 or F32 types. they present a very lush mid-range
 and dynamics, though the soundstage is not presented as wide nor deep as
 some others. if available, try the fat-base mullard GZ34, as they present
 the most liquid/velvety mids of any rectifier i've tried. the fat-brown-base
 are more preferred but hard to find. the fat-black-base is not far behind and
 much easier to find. these fat-base are all F31 types of the GZ34 family made
 during the late 50's. the more readily available F33 types were made in the late
 70's/80's and doesn't share the same sonic charateristics.

 *my mistake: the GZ32 is the english equiv. of the 5v4g. the GZ30 is the eng. equiv
 of the 5z4g. the GZ32 is warmer and has the bloomy mids, whereas the GZ30 
 allows the most neutral sound signature to come thru, with a small spike at the
 mid-bass region...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks for your advice takezo! The Sophia appeals to me because of the all around improvement people seem to describe with it, and the improved soundstage which I really like. But I'm afraid this will come with increased treble energy and the only way to really find out for myself is to spend the money and risk disappointment. The EML tubes are even pricier and I've read contradicting opinions of them with some saying they are brighter than the Sophia and some smoother.

 I have several 5V4Gs (Raytheon, Tung-Sol, RCA..... all black base and black plate except the Raytheon which has inline silver plate sections), all of which I paid very little for so I will start with those. I guess I'm looking for that magic combination of laid back sounding AND detailed. It's a delicate balancing act for sure. I figured I'd start with affordable tubes, but when I move up to something more expensive I'm basically hoping to buy once and going with either the Sophia or EML seems safer and easier than seeking out the rare metal base NOS tubes.


----------



## Seamaster

Quality control wise I go with EML. Here are few guys report problems with Sophia


----------



## Seamaster

Quality control wise I go with EML. Here are few guys reported problems with Sophia


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quality control wise I go with EML. Here are few guys report problems with Sophia_

 

Weren't those complaints all a year or more ago? I could justify the extra cost of an EML tube if its sound were a better match for my tastes, but I see no reason to avoid Sophia for quality reasons at this point.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I found some very useful impressions I somehow missed in my earlier searches. I'm really interested in the EML 274B Mesh now, especially the consensus that it seems to be a bit more refined at the top end. I can't deal with sibilance at all, I just have strange ears I guess because other people who hear my gear don't hear it but I hear sibilance in almost everything.

 Is there any merit to considering the EML 5U4G Mesh vs. the EML 274B Mesh? sillysally posted impressions comparing the EML 274b solid plate to the 5U4G mesh plate, but I haven't seen mesh plate vs. mesh plate compared yet.

 I'm still planning to give the 5V4Gs I have a try, but I like to plan my upgrades ahead of time.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found some very useful impressions I somehow missed in my earlier searches. I'm really interested in the EML 274B Mesh now, especially the consensus that it seems to be a bit more refined at the top end. I can't deal with sibilance at all, I just have strange ears I guess because other people who hear my gear don't hear it but I hear sibilance in almost everything.

 Is there any merit to considering the EML 5U4G Mesh vs. the EML 274B Mesh? sillysally posted impressions comparing the EML 274b solid plate to the 5U4G mesh plate, but I haven't seen mesh plate vs. mesh plate compared yet.

 I'm still planning to give the 5V4Gs I have a try, but I like to plan my upgrades ahead of time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

EML no longer makes 5U4G or 274B solid plate. Hard to find.
 The EML 5U4G mesh that I used is the new design of that tube, I have E-Mailed Jack to be sure. So until we hear from some folks that have both old and new, consider the new design to have a different tone in the WA6SE.

 Update; Jack E-Mailed me back and said the EML 5U4G mesh that he sent me was from the old stock.

 ss


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found some very useful impressions I somehow missed in my earlier searches. I'm really interested in the EML 274B Mesh now, especially the consensus that it seems to be a bit more refined at the top end. I can't deal with sibilance at all, I just have strange ears I guess because other people who hear my gear don't hear it but I hear sibilance in almost everything.

 Is there any merit to considering the EML 5U4G Mesh vs. the EML 274B Mesh? sillysally posted impressions comparing the EML 274b solid plate to the 5U4G mesh plate, but I haven't seen mesh plate vs. mesh plate compared yet.

 I'm still planning to give the 5V4Gs I have a try, but I like to plan my upgrades ahead of time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

if sibilance is your major issue, then forget trying to find the answer with
 the rectifiers. they make minimal changes, especially with the wa6SE.
 the most refined highs i've encountered so far are the 6sn7 and it's family
 of tubes like the 7n7(different pin arrangement) and 6h8c(russian). 
 ask jack or any adapter makers to make you one that goes from 6sn7 to 6de7.
 i think jack still sells these.

 another tube that can be used on the wa6/wa6SE with an adapter is the 6cs7.
 it has one of the best mids for acoustic music and a refined high end. you would
 need to make an adapter for this but good news is that it has one pin difference,
 so it's a simple operation. jack should be able to make it easily, or let you know
 who can.


----------



## St3ve

hey everyone,

 As promised, I have written an 'impressions' blog entry about the WA6. Preaching to the choir here, I know. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/blogs/...-week-wa6.html


----------



## Ducker

Thanks. I'm considering buying a WA6 and your write-up was well done and helpful.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey everyone,

 As promised, I have written an 'impressions' blog entry about the WA6. Preaching to the choir here, I know. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/blogs/...-week-wa6.html_


----------



## ygm

Has anyone tried the "new" Shuguang 274B rectifier in their Woo?

 How does it compare to the others?


----------



## ygm

Has anyone tried the "new" Shuguang 274B rectifier in their Woo?

 How does it compare to the others?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if sibilance is your major issue, then forget trying to find the answer with
 the rectifiers. they make minimal changes, especially with the wa6SE.
 the most refined highs i've encountered so far are the 6sn7 and it's family
 of tubes like the 7n7(different pin arrangement) and 6h8c(russian). 
 ask jack or any adapter makers to make you one that goes from 6sn7 to 6de7._

 

I'll definitely keep this in mind. I've head the 6SN7 is more lush sounding than any of the direct replacement tubes for the WA6, but I'm going to get a good feel for what the RCA brand and the 6FD7/6CY7/6EW7 tubes can do for me and see if any of those work well enough.

 My interest in the EML is more for its total sonic upgrade, since so many people say the Sophia takes the amp to a whole new level. Even Jack says the difference is larger than a parts upgrade, so if the EML tube sounds a bit more refined than the Sophia I'd pay the price different to get that.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll definitely keep this in mind. I've head the 6SN7 is more lush sounding than any of the direct replacement tubes for the WA6, but I'm going to get a good feel for what the RCA brand and the 6FD7/6CY7/6EW7 tubes can do for me and see if any of those work well enough.

 My interest in the EML is more for its total sonic upgrade, since so many people say the Sophia takes the amp to a whole new level. Even Jack says the difference is larger than a parts upgrade, so if the EML tube sounds a bit more refined than the Sophia I'd pay the price different to get that._

 

they're not only lush sounding, but most importantly, they're one of the most
 distortion-free drive tubes that will work on the wa6. you'll notice this most
 with classical and acoustic jazz pieces. with rock and electronica, the 6de7
 and 6fd7 are fine.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey Seamaster: Your absolutely modded-out WA22 must be ready by now, just in time for the Seattle meet. Yah, got it yet? Itching to hear what you think about its new soul.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Seamaster: Your absolutely modded-out WA22 must be ready by now, just in time for the Seattle meet. Yah, got it yet? Itching to hear what you think about its new soul._

 

Too bad I don't have chance to hear it before the meet. Dan will bring it to the meet instead. We had alot of email exchange about this project. Everything goes fine sounds like. Just a few more days baby!


----------



## BIG POPPA

Freaking Seamaster, stealing the show this Saturday. Can't wait to hear it my friend.


----------



## tke398

Double post


----------



## tke398

I ordered a silver Wa6se on Feb 14th and prepared for a 4-5 week wait time. I received shipping notification on the 24th. Wow, am I surprised!! I live in NJ and hopefully shipping from NY will only take a couple days. Can't wait.

 Now I need to re-read 172 pages to remember which tubes I want to roll with first.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered a silver Wa6se on Feb 14th and prepared for a 4-5 week wait time. I received shipping notification on the 24th. Wow, am I surprised!! I live in NJ and hopefully shipping from NY will only take a couple days. Can't wait.

 Now I need to re-read 172 pages to remember which tubes I want to roll with first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Welcome to the club. Jack must have every parts stocked up for WA6SE. That's why is quick. How much for the shipping? You might just go there to pick up.


----------



## tosehee

Someone must have cancelled the order....



 Grats and welcome to the WA club.


----------



## dannie01

Welcome to the club and you can find bunch of tube rolling advise within this thread. 

 Enjoy your new toy.


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone must have cancelled the order....



 Grats and welcome to the WA club._

 

I actually thought about that, but Jack said he was waiting for parts on other orders. I'm happy regardless since I started out looking for a used one, but couldn't find one for sale.


----------



## tke398

I have read almost every thread about rectifiers for the Wa6se and spent hours debating between the EML 5U4G and the Sophia Princess. I had to just bite the bullet and order one or the other. I went with the Princess and if it still bothers me a few months from now, I'll go for the EML too. But it seems the differences are minimal compared to rolling driver tubes or other tweaks. That's the gist I got from all those threads, but I might be wrong.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ But it seems the differences are minimal compared to rolling driver tubes or other tweaks. That's the gist I got from all those threads, but I might be wrong._

 

Too bad, you are not right here. The sound signature, and tone are quite different with those two tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually thought about that, but Jack said he was waiting for parts on other orders._

 

I imagine this is why I still don't have mine. Oh well, anticipation is part of the fun.


----------



## bol

Just got my WA6SE today with a bunch o tubes (including the Sophia Electric Princess) and what an amp... it's a work of art.


----------



## midoo1990

I got an email from Jack yesterday and he asked me to confirm the shipping again to be sure.I wonder if he will ship it soon because I got no reply after I sent him my shipping info the first time...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I imagine this is why I still don't have mine. Oh well, anticipation is part of the fun._

 

I was just making joke.. which obviously wasn't good.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I placed an order for a stock, black WA6SE day before yesterday; I got an email from Jack yesterday saying he had received payment, and the wait time would be about 4 weeks.

 After reading above about some shorter wait times, I'm hoping that mine will be ahead of schedule, too. I plan on adding the Sophia and a headphone stand, but haven't purchased those yet.

 Phones I'll be using are Grado RS1i and JH13s.

 To start, I'll be feeding this amp from a lossless iPod classic through an LOD (iPod dock connector to RCAs). Eventually, I'll be looking for a CD player and outboard DAC combination; I've been checking out Cambridge CDPs and the Channel Islands DAC, but would be happy to hear other suggestions within my budget (total 1K for CDP and DAC).


----------



## SillyHoney

I have just purchased a used WA6 2009 stock w/ an extra a pair of GE 6DE7 with Signal Cable power cord from David. I'm waiting for it and I'm so excited 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is my first headphone amp. Even better it's an tube amp. Even better it's a Woo Audio amp and even better it's a WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The phone I will use with it is DT880/600. The last thing I need is a DAC but I'm broken (sorry about my wallet). Guess I will go for a Icon uDAC


----------



## K_19

Welcome to the club. I haven't tried any 600ohms headphones on my stock WA6 yet but hopefully it will supply them with enough power.


----------



## Covenant

I'm curious how the WA6 will go with 600ohm phones as well.

 Congrats on your purchase


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious how the WA6 will go with 600ohm phones as well.

 Congrats on your purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 It would be nice to know for future reference.

_SillyHoney, _Welcome to the wonderful world of WooAudio


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is my first headphone amp. Even better it's an tube amp. Even better it's a Woo Audio amp and even better it's a WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

A smart short-cut move for the WA6. It saves you a lot money for the long run.


----------



## sillysally

Everyone that has placed orders recently for there Woo.

 There have been many orders place recently including me, so if you get your Woo earlier than 4 weeks be happy, but don't get your hopes up. 

 I got my WA6SE in March of 09 and because I have been so happy with my Woo, I have ordered a WA5 LE. 

 In both cases I took Jacks word for everything about how the amp would sound with different upgrades also. In the case of my WA6SE Jack was 100% right about what he told me, and time will tell if his advise on the WA5 LE is right on the money also. 

 ss


----------



## Superfrag

Guys.. can you'll suggest driver tubes for my WA6? I have the 6FD7's as the stock driver tubes.


----------



## tosehee

Well, with custom amp, the delay is quite common. Like silly says, if you get it in 4 weeks, u should be delighted. I got my WA22 in more than 8+ weeks period.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys.. can you'll suggest driver tubes for my WA6? I have the 6FD7's as the stock driver tubes._

 

I used to own WA6, but I hear that it's slightly different design than the previous.

 Do a search. There is a thread by takezo with a tube complements that would work great with WA6 and WA6SE.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just purchased a used WA6 2009 stock w/ an extra a pair of GE 6DE7 with Signal Cable power cord from David. I'm waiting for it and I'm so excited 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is my first headphone amp. Even better it's an tube amp. Even better it's a Woo Audio amp and even better it's a WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The phone I will use with it is DT880/600. The last thing I need is a DAC but I'm broken (sorry about my wallet). Guess I will go for a Icon uDAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'am not sure about its sound especially without the PPSU, it would be better buying a new one.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'am not sure about its sound especially without the PPSU, it would be better buying a new one._

 

I consider the PSU as one of the most critical parts in source/dac/amp. I'd either upgrade the WA6 or get a new one.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I consider the PSU as one of the most critical parts in source/dac/amp. I'd either upgrade the WA6 or get a new one._

 

That's the reason a head fi member should ready intensively especially when buying such elite amps, now it will cost more to upgrade and get the Sophia Princess then it would if purchased new.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I placed an order for a stock, black WA6SE day before yesterday; I got an email from Jack yesterday saying he had received payment, and the wait time would be about 4 weeks.

 After reading above about some shorter wait times, I'm hoping that mine will be ahead of schedule, too. I plan on adding the Sophia and a headphone stand, but haven't purchased those yet.
_

 

You might get yours a little earlier since you ordered black. The silver seems to be the bottleneck right now. I ordered mine on the first of this month, so 4 weeks is only a couple of days away. I figure it'll get here whenever it gets here. I haven't even asked Jack for an update, I figure he is busy and gets enough mail like that as it is.


----------



## sillysally

Guys take it easy, he tried to get the best amp he could afford.

 I am sure someone could have said why get a WA22 if you are going balanced and want a better PSU, why not get a WES and a pair of 02s. 

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superfrag* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys.. can you'll suggest driver tubes for my WA6? I have the 6FD7's as the stock driver tubes._

 

Takezo has some very detailed posts on this, including a long list of rectifiers that can be used as well, but to summarize for you the following drive tubes can be used on the WA6 with no adapter needed (just plug it in and it will work):

 6DE7
 6FD7
 6CY7
 6DR7
 6EW7

 There are others you can use via a rewire adapter which are electrically compatible, but these are "plug and play" so to speak.


----------



## SillyHoney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the reason a head fi member should ready intensively especially when buying such elite amps, now it will cost more to upgrade and get the Sophia Princess then it would if purchased new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I'm a total noob with those stuff. Why it cost more when I upgrade the PSU (are you talking about pdps) and get Sophia Princess? What is so special about the latest WA6 that make it more expensive to upgrade the old one than get a new one beside PDPS?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys take it easy, he tried to get the best amp he could afford. 

 ss_

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had tried my best to take that shot. Despite of being broken, I'm still feeling happy but they already wanted to make me confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure there are a lot of things to learn (or to spend $ on?) and I'm learning but it will be much more easier for me to keep on going on that expensive road when I can get a decent income rather than a part-time job with 7 bucks per hour at school.

 So while I'm very appreciated your advices and suggestions and recommendations, plz don't make me to stay away from Head-Fi


----------



## TheWuss

to answer a couple of the recent posts...
 i have the WA6 driving a 600 ohm DT990, and it does just fine.
 mind you, the volume is at 3/4 and it's excruciatingly loud. 
 with my easier to drive phones, i can't get past 10 o'clock on the dial.

 as for the pseudo dual power supply. as of jan. of this year, it is now standard with the WA6.


----------



## SillyHoney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sure someone could have said why get a WA22 if you are going balanced and want a better PSU, why not get a WES and a pair of 02s. 

 ss_

 

That's very true. People tend to try getting better thing especially when it's superior than the planned one all around but only costs a little bit more. Then they look at another better one and see it only costs *again* a little more than the 2nd one... Keep going on that and when you turn back you won't believe how far you actually have gone.

 Come on, I had wanted a DAC/Amp combo for around $150 bucks and a HD600. That's considered a huge upgrade from HD-555 with X-Fi Xpress Card out of my laptop. Then I spent more time reading Head-Fi and guess it's a bad move. Now I ended up with DT880/600 and WA6 and planning on a Valab NOS. Can't believe I have gone that far


----------



## SillyHoney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheWuss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to answer a couple of the recent posts...
 i have the WA6 driving a 600 ohm DT990, and it does just fine.
 mind you, the volume is at 3/4 and it's excruciatingly loud. 
 with my easier to drive phones, i can't get past 10 o'clock on the dial.

 as for the pseudo dual power supply. as of jan. of this year, it is now standard with the WA6.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not planning on upgrade the pdps atm but do you know how much to get it upgrade? Is it a must for WA6?


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Come on, I had wanted a DAC/Amp combo for around $150 bucks and a HD600. That's considered a huge upgrade from HD-555 with X-Fi Xpress Card out of my laptop. Then I spent more time reading Head-Fi and guess it's a bad move. Now I ended up with DT880/600 and WA6 and planning on a Valab NOS. Can't believe I have gone that far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds familiar lol. Welcome and congrats.

 I guess one thing to consider would be spending some time with your WA6 without the pdps. Then, when you can bear to be without it (gone on holiday etc) then maybe get Jack to put one in for you. Then you would be ideally placed to tell how big a difference the pdps makes.


----------



## SillyHoney

Guess I will go that route. As a member here said. The best part is the journey when you learn and experiment


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds familiar lol. Welcome and congrats.

 I guess one thing to consider would be spending some time with your WA6 without the pdps. Then, when you can bear to be without it (gone on holiday etc) then maybe get Jack to put one in for you. Then you would be ideally placed to tell how big a difference the pdps makes._

 

...then again, if you have nothing to compare it against, just enjoy your WA6 without the pdps. After all, it is still a Woo Audio and nothing less!


----------



## TheWuss

So, I've been burning in my WA6 with the stock Sovtek...
 And, thinking to myself, "Gee. This is pretty good stuff. Can't imagine the Princess will really be that big a difference."

 Well, today I decided to go ahead and install the gal. So I wiggled the Princess gently onto the socket, and held my breath, hoping for some nice results.

 I switched on the WA6 and watched the two mesh plates begin warming/lighting up. (By the way, I know everyone has seen pictures of the Princess. But, just in case you couldn't tell from the photos - it is gorgeous. And she's a "big gal", too.)

 So... within 10 minutes or so, my K702s were suddenly more open, more spacious, and more detailed. I won't hyperbolize. Or at least I'll try not to...

 Listening to Ray LaMontagne's Trouble, the music appeared to move outside my head quite a bit as compared to... well, basically any headphone experience I personally have ever had. My tendency, when listening to the Sovtek, was to keep skipping around my collection of tunes - a sure sign of less than ideal performance.

 But, here I am typing, and I haven't hit the skip button once. So, yeah, you could say I'm very pleased. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for the sound signature of the Princess. It's probably far too early to say anything meaningful. But I'll say what I'm hearing so far.

 I detect just the slightest midrange bloom. Which is actually quite romantic sounding to my ears. There's a real liveliness that I've never heard before. And, the music is more present at a lower volume, which is a big plus. Because my natural tendency is to crank it to get that fullness of sound.

 So the Ray LaMontagne album has ended and now I'm on to Crowded House's greatest hits, and I'm thinking to myself *expletive*!!! This is what a snare drum is supposed to sound like! Just the slightest touch of sibilance here and there on this album, but nearly perfect on the whole.

 It's just remarkable how good this sounds. Which is why I wanted to submit this short, but somewhat gushing, review.

 Thank you, Head-Fiers for leading me to this moment in my listening experience! I couldn't be happier!!! 
 That is, until i start rolling driver tubes!!! Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!


----------



## regal

How is the Woo6 or SE on midrange, is it more prominant or in the background. Do you hear the guitar "upclose", is it a smooth natural presentation? This would be for Grado RS1/MS-pros ?


----------



## TheWuss

well... midrange was, for my ears, absolutely stellar with the princess rectifier installed.
 not so great with the stock sovtek.
 snare drums, female vocals, guitars. they all have an energy.
 i would maybe go as far as to say that this setup might help headphones that have a slightly recessed midrange.
 i can answer that more when i've had a chance to listen more to my dt990's in this setup.


----------



## regal

I've been considering building a 6EW7 SET OPT amp like the Woo6 but Woo can just about sell you one cheaper than you can build plus you get he beautiful chassis.


----------



## regal

I've been considering building a 6EW7 SET OPT amp like the Woo6 but Woo can just about sell you one cheaper than you can build plus you get the beautiful chassis.


----------



## Modena

My WA5 has just been completed. It should ship early next week. Anyone know how long it takes?


----------



## monsieurguzel

Out of curiosty Modena, when did you order your WA5? I ordered a maxed WA5 on the 16th and I'm impatiently waiting.


----------



## TheWuss

how long will it take? depends on where you are.
 within the US, jack ships USPS priority mail.
 2 days to the larger cities, 3 days if you live outside a larger city.
 signature confirmation. meaning you'll have to be there to sign for it. if not, you'll have to pick it up at the post office the following day.
 i'd say that's pretty great turn around for shipping.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA5 has just been completed. It should ship early next week. Anyone know how long it takes?_

 

Probably Thursday!! Jack will give you a tracking number so you should have a good idea what day you may have to call in sick or your wife could loose her car keys that day (hate it when that happens).

 Let us know how it goes, there are at least three of us that will be getting the WA5 LE in March. 

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

I received my shipping notice for Mar 1 as well. 4 weeks right on the nose. Must be a busy end of month at Woo.


----------



## kunalraiker

I feel there should be dedicated threads for all Woo Audio amps,that would justify Jacks amps.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel there should be dedicated threads for all Woo Audio amps,that would justify Jacks amps._

 

YES YES YES! x10


----------



## Superfrag

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Takezo has some very detailed posts on this, including a long list of rectifiers that can be used as well, but to summarize for you the following drive tubes can be used on the WA6 with no adapter needed (just plug it in and it will work):

 6DE7
 6FD7
 6CY7
 6DR7
 6EW7

 There are others you can use via a rewire adapter which are electrically compatible, but these are "plug and play" so to speak._

 

Thanks a lot buddy!


----------



## regal

For Grados is the extra power of the Woo6SE version worth the dollars vs the standard Woo6 ?


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For Grados is the extra power of the Woo6SE version worth the dollars vs the standard Woo6 ?_

 

I have not heard the SE, but the standard WA6 drives my Grados very nicely indeed, with tons of power to spare.


----------



## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For Grados is the extra power of the Woo6SE version worth the dollars vs the standard Woo6 ?_

 

If think it's worth it. WA6SE also have triple the power of WA6, you know very well that Grados need a lot of current to sound at their best. Definetely WA6SE for Grados


----------



## tke398

Just received my WA6SE yesterday and took some quick pics. It's been burning in using 8 hour shifts with an hour or two to cool down in between. I took a quick listen and am very happy so far with the presentation. 

 Here are a few pics:


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ It's been burning in using 8 hour shifts with an hour or two to cool down in between. I took a quick listen and am very happy so far with the presentation. _

 

Pretty, very smart routine for brun-in. 10 hours instead 8 should be Ok too. Where is Sophia or EML? That's where is your money at......


----------



## tke398

The Sophia arrives on Thursday. I was going to wait until week 3 of build time to order it, but this came very early.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my WA6SE yesterday and took some quick pics. It's been burning in using 8 hour shifts with an hour or two to cool down in between. I took a quick listen and am very happy so far with the presentation. _

 

[size=large]*YUMMY!*[/size] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congratulations! Wow! Nice and clean looking. That rectifier is only slightly larger than those driver tubes.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sophia arrives on Thursday. I was going to wait until week 3 of build time to order it, but this came very early._

 

Congrats! you will love your new WA6SE. I have a WA6SE and love it.

 btw; my first tube amp was a LD MKIVSE gave it to my son along with HD-650.

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

I now have every tube I was interested in trying with the amp on hand, just in time for its arrival later this week. All except for a TungSol 6DE7 that is. Nobody has them, not even vacuumtubes.net I imagine they can't be that much different from the shield plate RCA 6DE7, but I wanted to find out for myself.

 I wonder how long I can hold out before breaking down and buying a Princess or EML 274B. Then the question remains: which one?


----------



## Xcalibur255

[double post]


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my WA6SE yesterday and took some quick pics. It's been burning in using 8 hour shifts with an hour or two to cool down in between. I took a quick listen and am very happy so far with the presentation. 
_

 

Congratulation, its feels so nice to see a fresh new WA6 SE, keep us updated on your views, also interested in its output, what headphones will you drive and what RCA's are those at the back, they appear very flashy.


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulation, its feels so nice to see a fresh new WA6 SE, keep us updated on your views, also interested in its output, what headphones will you drive and what RCA's are those at the back, they appear very flashy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll be using the Denon D7000's mainly. I made the interconnects myself and posted a better pic in the DIY section. Here's a link to the pic:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/diy...ml#post6400087


----------



## tosehee

Extra power is for future proof. WA6 can't hardly handle HE5. WA6SE does to certain degree...


----------



## SillyHoney

My WA6 arrived today!!! This is the most beautiful thing Ive ever seen. The finish is exceptional well done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have anyone tried WA6 w/ an IEM? I dont have the DT880 anymore so I tested it w/ my ATH-CK7. I can tell the great difference in bass. The bass is warmer as well as the overall tone. I also *feel* the soundstage is a tiny bit wider. In other words I can clearly tell the difference but it's not so great. It's because of my $75 IEM?

 Hopefully my D5000 will come just in time so I will have better equipement for testing lol

 Cheers!


----------



## SillyHoney

...


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA6 arrived today!!! This is the most beautiful thing Ive ever seen. The finish is exceptional well done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have anyone tried WA6 w/ an IEM? I dont have the DT880 anymore so I tested it w/ my ATH-CK7. I can tell the great difference in bass. The bass is warmer as well as the overall tone. I also *feel* the soundstage is a tiny bit wider. In other words I can clearly tell the difference but it's not so great. It's because of my $75 IEM? ..._

 

Congrats, I love mine, going on two years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a rare occasion I’ll use iem’s with her, but I prefer full size headphones at home. Also, certain armature iem's don't really preform well with this amp, don't ask me why, as I don't know (se530, ue11s, ...). You also asked about AH-D5000 and soundstage, I’m sure they’ll blow the soundstage away most iem’s, but keep in mind that they’re closed headphones. If you really want to open up the soundstage, consider open phones for your next ones and you’ll truly be impressed.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA6 arrived today!!! This is the most beautiful thing Ive ever seen. The finish is exceptional well done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have anyone tried WA6 w/ an IEM? I dont have the DT880 anymore so I tested it w/ my ATH-CK7. I can tell the great difference in bass. The bass is warmer as well as the overall tone. I also *feel* the soundstage is a tiny bit wider. In other words I can clearly tell the difference but it's not so great. It's because of my $75 IEM?

 Hopefully my D5000 will come just in time so I will have better equipement for testing lol

 Cheers!_

 

I did my comparison review of the Westone ES3X, UE 11Pro and JH 13Pro custom IEM using the WA6, and it is my best amp in the house with those. The source is important too of course.


----------



## kunalraiker

If you use foobar as your source along with D4 as the DAC, is that a nice to connect it with the WA6.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you use foobar as your source along with D4 as the DAC, is that a nice to connect it with the WA6._

 

The D4's DAC is good enough to pair with a Woo WA6 and not feel like you are losing much of anything. I have a hard time hearing differences between D4 and my Pico DAC, except that the D4 line-level output volume is much lower than the Pico and it makes the Pico feel more dynamic. In the end, the Pico DAC seems to connect me to the music just a little better, but the D4 is so close it's not funny. If you are trying to drive HE-5 with the WA6, you will need to use the D4 headphone out to feed the WA6 a stronger signal, or you wont get loud enough.


----------



## verteqz

I'm considering a WA6, but I'm taken aback at the cost of the tubes. If the Sophia burns out every year or something I'm spending $150 on upkeep. I have the EF2, but the tubes for it are like $20 bucks a pair. 

 Am I drastically underestimating the lifespan on tubes?


----------



## verteqz

double.


----------



## SillyHoney

If you listen to music that much (more than 10 hours a day) I think the tube will still last for at least a year. $150 for 365 days or 42 cents a day? I'm happy to spend that 42 cents just to have a wonderful looking stuff on my desk.

 But I doubt anyone can spend 10 hours listening to music everday in a whole year anyway.

 Right now I'm listening to Eric Clapton and looking at the WA6 glowing in the dark. That alone makes music sounds a lot better


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *verteqz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm considering a WA6, but I'm taken aback at the cost of the tubes. If the Sophia burns out every year or something I'm spending $150 on upkeep. I have the EF2, but the tubes for it are like $20 bucks a pair. 

 Am I drastically underestimating the lifespan on tubes?_

 

Just like sillyhoney said, I wouldn't worry too much about the life of the tubes with WA6. Just buy the tubes you like and enjoy until it dies out.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D4's DAC is good enough to pair with a Woo WA6 and not feel like you are losing much of anything. I have a hard time hearing differences between D4 and my Pico DAC, except that the D4 line-level output volume is much lower than the Pico and it makes the Pico feel more dynamic. In the end, the Pico DAC seems to connect me to the music just a little better, but the D4 is so close it's not funny. If you are trying to drive HE-5 with the WA6, you will need to use the D4 headphone out to feed the WA6 a stronger signal, or you wont get loud enough._

 

Thanks Larry,I would be driving SR 325is and may be latter on get some HD 650, would the Line out from D4 have ample power to DAC the WA6.


----------



## SillyHoney

I have my amp one for about 2 hours already but besides the tubes, the amp is cool as hell. I heard people said that the amp will get pretty hot (still touchable) but why my amp is still cool? Is it because of my IEM is not hard enough for the amp to drive?

 Update: The tubes are not so hot as well. I can touch them after 2-4 minutes turning the amp off. Is that considered normal?

 And the tubes are not supposed to be held very tight right? I find them can be easily taken off. Is that normal too?

 Sorry for asking a lot! This is my first amp lol


----------



## verteqz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you listen to music that much (more than 10 hours a day) I think the tube will still last for at least a year. $150 for 365 days or 42 cents a day? I'm happy to spend that 42 cents just to have a wonderful looking stuff on my desk.

 But I doubt anyone can spend 10 hours listening to music everday in a whole year anyway.

 Right now I'm listening to Eric Clapton and looking at the WA6 glowing in the dark. That alone makes music sounds a lot better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

But think about it, $150 a year is an incredible premium. In a decade you've paid out a 4 digit figure just for tubes. Why not just get a really nice solid state amp and be done with it?

 I dunno, it just bothers me a bit that my wallet is emptied not once, but repeatedly.


----------



## kunalraiker

will sophia cease to exist at some stage.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *verteqz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm considering a WA6, but I'm taken aback at the cost of the tubes. If the Sophia burns out every year or something I'm spending $150 on upkeep. I have the EF2, but the tubes for it are like $20 bucks a pair. 

 Am I drastically underestimating the lifespan on tubes?_

 

Well I've had my Sophia well over a year now and it still works great, only it does get a bit darker over time but not with the lights out.


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did my comparison review of the Westone ES3X, UE 11Pro and JH 13Pro custom IEM using the WA6, and it is my best amp in the house with those. The source is important too of course._

 

Well I didn't try the ES3X or the JH 13Pro, but did the UE11-Pro, must be the differance in hearing as my source is lappy/PicoDAC/WA6/UE11-Pro and the sq just doesn't sound right to me and I have heard the same comments from others who's opinions I value. Although, IMHO it's an overkill to buy a WA6 for iem's ...


----------



## jc9394

I do use my Mac>Gamma2>WA6>JH13 most of the time and found it a very good combo, better than my HD600.


----------



## SillyHoney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my amp one for about 2 hours already but besides the tubes, the amp is cool as hell. I heard people said that the amp will get pretty hot (still touchable) but why my amp is still cool? Is it because of my IEM is not hard enough for the amp to drive?

 Update: The tubes are not so hot as well. I can touch them after 2-4 minutes turning the amp off. Is that considered normal?

 And the tubes are not supposed to be held very tight right? I find them can be easily taken off. Is that normal too?

 Sorry for asking a lot! This is my first amp lol_

 

Err can someone help me with that


----------



## atbglenn

SillyHoney, Who said the WA6 runs hot? My chassis runs luke warm even after being on all day. The Rectifier gets very hot which is normal. The Driver/Output tubes get hot, but not as hot as the rectifier. Don't worry, your amp is fine.. Just enjoy it


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my amp one for about 2 hours already but besides the tubes, the amp is cool as hell. I heard people said that the amp will get pretty hot (still touchable) but why my amp is still cool? Is it because of my IEM is not hard enough for the amp to drive?_

 

 The amp housing does run cool, at most it might get warm with all day usage. The temperature it runs at shouldn’t vary if you are driving iem’s or headphones.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update: The tubes are not so hot as well. I can touch them after 2-4 minutes turning the amp off. Is that considered normal?_

 

 Yes, they cool off fairly quick, even after hours of use.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the tubes are not supposed to be held very tight right? I find them can be easily taken off. Is that normal too?_

 

They fit snug only and shouldn’t be hard to remove.


----------



## takezo

the amp will run hot if the power transformer is pushed to the limits.
 the primary will allow up to 3.0A, whereas the secondary can allow up to 2.4A, for
 an approximation of 5.4A total. if you're using the 6de7/6ew7 with the 5z4g or gz34
 it should be lukewarm at most. but if you're using a pair of 6fd7 and a 5u4g rectifier, then
 the current being pulled from the power trans will be near the limit and the amp chassis
 will run very warm, but should never be hot enough to cause pain when touched.
 if you want to know what combo is safe or near the limit, look up the tubes heater current
 on the web and add them up. (remember there are two drive/power tubes)


----------



## SillyHoney

Perfect! Thank you guys so much


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Larry,I would be driving SR 325is and may be latter on get some HD 650, would the Line out from D4 have ample power to DAC the WA6._

 

The only one I cautioned about was the HE-5. I don't think the others would be a problem.


----------



## Modena

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of curiosty Modena, when did you order your WA5? I ordered a maxed WA5 on the 16th and I'm impatiently waiting._

 

Less than a month ago.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Hi all! A proud new (well, used) WA6 owner here making his first report.

 I bought the Woo to replace a Consonance Cyber 20, which was a great introduction to tube amps and the potential of tube rolling. It's an interesting contrast -- the Cyber 20 has more of that sweet tube lushness, where the Woo comes across as more SS-like in its crispness. They're both transformer-coupled amps, but the Woo seems more capable of both taming occasionally wild highs in my RS-1s and breathing life into the sometimes stodgy HD650s. Exactly what I was hoping for!

 I was actually just a tad underwhelmed with the Woo using both the stock rectifier and a NOS Tung-Sol 5U4G I found on the cheap. Enter a new Princess rectifier purchased from Woo -- wow, what a difference! I've put about 12 hours on it in the past three days, and everything is opening up beautifully. It didn't hurt that last night's listening session also included my favorite record of all time ("Islands" by King Crimson), my favorite single malt (Laphroaig Quarter Cask), a dark room and my comfy leather chair!

 More observations to follow!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *verteqz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But think about it, $150 a year is an incredible premium. In a decade you've paid out a 4 digit figure just for tubes. Why not just get a really nice solid state amp and be done with it?

 I dunno, it just bothers me a bit that my wallet is emptied not once, but repeatedly._

 

Well, you don't HAVE to get the Princess. There are decent NOS rectifiers out there for cheap, and you shouldn't have to replace it every year either. They should last for several thousand hours, so unless you listen to your amp all day every day it should make it several years before needing replacement.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olias of Sunhillow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all! A proud new (well, used) WA6 owner here making his first report.

 I bought the Woo to replace a Consonance Cyber 20, which was a great introduction to tube amps and the potential of tube rolling. It's an interesting contrast -- the Cyber 20 has more of that sweet tube lushness, where the Woo comes across as more SS-like in its crispness. They're both transformer-coupled amps, but the Woo seems more capable of both taming occasionally wild highs in my RS-1s and breathing life into the sometimes stodgy HD650s. Exactly what I was hoping for!

 I was actually just a tad underwhelmed with the Woo using both the stock rectifier and a NOS Tung-Sol 5U4G I found on the cheap. Enter a new Princess rectifier purchased from Woo -- wow, what a difference! I've put about 12 hours on it in the past three days, and everything is opening up beautifully. It didn't hurt that last night's listening session also included my favorite record of all time ("Islands" by King Crimson), my favorite single malt (Laphroaig Quarter Cask), a dark room and my comfy leather chair!

 More observations to follow!_

 

Sounds great, man! You'll be very happy with your WA6. Have you tried to roll any other tubes yet, besides the rectifier? At least with my WA22, rolling the power tubes (to 7236s) made a major change.

 BTW, I've been itching to get into King Crimson. What album(s) would you recommend I start off with?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update: The tubes are not so hot as well. I can touch them after 2-4 minutes turning the amp off. Is that considered normal?_

 

Mine is getting warm with a 5AR4 and 6FD7, but not hot. Also if you are touching the tubes with your bare hands you probably shouldn't. The oils in your skin will stay on the glass and cause those spots to heat unevenly, which stresses the glass and can reduce tube life. I used a $2 pair of rubber kitchen gloves when I put mine in.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, as if it weren't obvious enough by my other replies, my WA6 has also arrived. I missed the mail delivery by a day and had to go pick it up, but it's all good. Unfortunately I have also gotten sick and have a terrible sinus headache so my hearing is not exactly in top shape to judge the amp.

 I will say this though: on first listen right out of the box with zero warmup I am impressed. If it doesn't improve at all, through tube rolling, tube warmup or break-in I will still feel like it was worth the money. It has taken enough of the nasty harsh edge off my K701s that I no longer feel like selling them, though they still have more treble than I want to hear. Now I understand why everybody raves about their soundstage. I was never impressed before, but the 6FD7 tubes place the music completely out of head.

 I received RCA 6FD7 driver tubes from Jack. He told me he was sending Sylvanias but there is enough printing left on the tubes I can see the RCA logos. I predicted they would be my favorite driver tube based on all the info I've read, but my reaction is a bit mixed so far. For some music they are amazing, but the soundstage exhibits what I would almost call an artificial reverb to it that doesn't sound quite right sometimes. For the most part I like it though, and it is every bit a match for my solid state amp in terms of PRAT, speed, impact and dynamics. I wonder what the 6DE7 will sound like now, but I'm going to roll in the other rectifiers I bought over the next couple of days and decide on which one of those I want to leave in the amp first.

 Fun times.


----------



## debitsohn

congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i cant wait to try a 6 either!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds great, man! You'll be very happy with your WA6. Have you tried to roll any other tubes yet, besides the rectifier? At least with my WA22, rolling the power tubes (to 7236s) made a major change._

 

I've been mostly using the RCA 6DE7s that were originally provided with the amp, and I find them generally agreeable. I've assembled a few pairs of 6DE7s and 6EW7s from these forums and elsewhere and am planning to try them with the Sophia this weekend. I liked what I heard from some United Electron 6EW7s in limited listening, though...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I've been itching to get into King Crimson. What album(s) would you recommend I start off with?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Man, that's a tough one, since Crimson has had so many different incarnations with such a different sound to each one. The conventional wisdom is that for each of the four major incarnations of the band (1969-71, 1972-74, 1981-84 and 1995ish-kind of now), the first album by that incarnation is the place to start. I mostly agree. That would make Court of the Crimson King, Larks Tongues in Aspic, Discipline and Thrak your targets. The first two would be my suggestions, and I would throw in 1973's Starless and Bible Black and 1970's Lizard as worthy of investigation, with the former being more metal-driven and the latter having more of a progressive/jazz-fusion feel (and guest vocals by Jon Anderson).


----------



## Xcalibur255

??? 5AR4 ------> Raytheon 5V4G

 I don't know the brand of the stock rectifier because all of the printing is gone, I don't even know for sure it is a 5AR4. I've just swapped it out for the first of my 5V4Gs, and the results are slightly disappointing so far. Much smaller soundstage, less air between notes, and vocals are more forward (something the K701 does not need). It does sound a bit more refined. Highs and lows are both slightly more extended and more controlled, especially the high notes. The 5AR4 had a tendency to bite on some high notes, where as this Raytheon does not and exhibits greater detail and texture as well. It's especially noticeable at higher volumes, where the treble stays polite and controlled on the 5V4G. Overall the sound is more "polite" and a bit less fun sounding. If the soundstage had not shrunk by more than half I would approve of the change, but losing so much air and space in the sound isn't worth it. I'm also finding myself listening at lower volumes which tells me the mids are pushed forward a bit more. Vocals are nice, not lush but balanced. They could use a bit more body and weight. Another thing I've noticed is the heavy reverb effect on some sustained notes is greatly reduced as well. So it appears the 5AR4 was contributing to this stronger note decay as well as the 6FD7s.

 Next comes the big question: how much variation in sound exists between brands? I'll be moving from the Raytheon to the Tung-Sol next, but both are 5V4Gs. Hopefully they won't all have been a waste of money.


----------



## hifidk

Good to see more people are rolling their tubes for the best sound. I found that shielded RCA + Sophia to be the best match (which was recommended by Larry). Wish I could try millitary Mullard when I had WA6.


----------



## DoingOK

Hope this question isn't too stupid. This WA6 being my first headphone amplifier and first tube component, is there a preferred method for stowing extra tubes? I have a few extras and just have them in the drawer below my amp. Should they be vertical, kept in a fridge or cryogenic suspended animation? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just curious.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*Tung Sol 5V4G*

 Definitely not impressed. There is a hard glare to the midrange and lower treble similar to what I was trying to get away from with my SS amp. Considering how well regarded the TS brand is in general I count this as a surprise. Strings have an unnatural bite to them that makes me wince. Soundstage is even smaller than the Raytheon. Vocals seem to have a bit of unnatural coloration to them. Bass presence is improved over the Raytheon, though control is a bit looser in some registers. After some A/Bing with familiar material the Tung Sol sounds almost exactly like my Channel Islands amp with the K701s only with even worse midrange glare, absolutely not what I was after. Piano is utterly boring with this tube, which is the final dealbreaker. It seems to be truncating note decay. Speed, dynamics and PRAT are excellent but it isn't a good trade for the harsh fatiguing sound it offers.

 There is a possibility that the Raytheon tube had some hours on it and this Tung Sol is completely NOS, the sellers I bought these from only stated that they "test as new" which can mean used but tests strong. I'm debating whether or not to burn the tube in to give it a fair chance or not. Sooner or later I'll move to a Sophia or EML and these will all be backups anyway so I might not bother and just move on.

 I have to say I'm a bit surprised at how prominent the differences between tubes are. I was expecting the changes to be subtle, but I'm finding each rectifier I roll in to have a clearly different character. Since the power tubes supposedly affect sound even more I'm looking forward to moving onto rolling them in the coming days.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Is the power button on anybody else's WA6 loose?


----------



## SillyHoney

No loose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And there will always a tiny hum sound in WA6 right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Possibly with low impedance headphones, but mine is dead silent at any volume even with the higher gain of the 6FD7 tubes.

 I suppose as long as the volume button doesn't break it doesn't matter. It still does its job afterall.

 edit: oops I meant power button not volume button.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope this question isn't too stupid. This WA6 being my first headphone amplifier and first tube component, is there a preferred method for stowing extra tubes? I have a few extras and just have them in the drawer below my amp. Should they be vertical, kept in a fridge or cryogenic suspended animation? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just curious.




_


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the power button on anybody else's WA6 loose?_

 


 side to side wiggle is normal


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No loose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And there will always a tiny hum sound in WA6 right?_

 

Mine is dead quiet with RCA 6DE7's and a Mullard GZ30 rectifier. No mechanical transformer buzz or hum either


----------



## St3ve

Cripes! that is a pretty good stash atbglenn!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_side to side wiggle is normal_

 

Mine wiggles in all directions, quite a bit. The button is firmly attached to the shaft, it is loose at the other end inside the chassis. Unless if falls off I won't worry about it too much.


----------



## SillyHoney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is getting warm with a 5AR4 and 6FD7, but not hot. Also if you are touching the tubes with your bare hands you probably shouldn't. The oils in your skin will stay on the glass and cause those spots to heat unevenly, which stresses the glass and can reduce tube life. I used a $2 pair of rubber kitchen gloves when I put mine in._

 

Oh I didnt know that. Very intersting. Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The hum sound is there. It's so tiny but it is there. I tested it on a $75 IEM tho so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Today I felt so nooby. Out of sudden when I turned on the amp to listen to some music, I heard very annoying sound. I tried to tight all input jacks, no luck. I almost cried thinking my amp is defective. Then I realized it is because the driver tubes was not held firmly that caused the noise lol. I also find it intersting that even if you turn off the amp, the music will still there for a while. I'm a noob about tubey stuff lol.


----------



## atbglenn

Steve, I plan on keeping my WA6 a long time


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Steve, I plan on keeping my WA6 a long time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Clearly!

 I ought sort myself a few spares.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine wiggles in all directions, quite a bit. The button is firmly attached to the shaft, it is loose at the other end inside the chassis. Unless if falls off I won't worry about it too much._

 

Make sure the 2 switch bracket screws are tight. Just be careful. Don't zap yourself. Even when unplugged, there are still high voltages stored in the capacitors...


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm not much of a DIYer..... but if it gets worse I'll open the case and take a look.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*RCA 5V4G*

 At this point it's pretty clear the 5V4 tubes were not what I was hoping they would be. The RCA is a bit milder than the Tung-Sol, with less harshness and bite. Vocals also sound more natural. It has the worst bass of all the tubes I've tried so far though, soft and slow sounding. There is a bit of lower midrange bloom that sounds either nice or out of place depending upon the song.

 I'll need to roll the stock 5AR4 back in for a sanity check after this. Would I have any better luck with a 5U4G anybody? I like the 5AR4 sound for the most part, but if I could "fix" it I would make the highs a tad bit milder, the bass a touch weightier and faster, and reduce the excessive note decay just a bit or at least better integrate it with everything else that is going on in the music. This decay/reverb can be really pretty sounding sometimes, and I fell in love with this effect the moment I heard a piano solo. Maybe it isn't "right" but it definitely sounds right for me. But, for other genres like rock or pop music it seems a bit out of place at times.

 edit: it appears what I have is a 5AS4, not a 5AR4. No idea what the differences might be, but the 5AS4 appears to be less common.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The oils in your skin will stay on the glass and cause those spots to heat unevenly, which stresses the glass and can reduce tube life. I used a $2 pair of rubber kitchen gloves when I put mine in._

 

I use with cotton gloves when handle my tubes. rubber kitchen gloves can't block the heat from tubes enough.


----------



## tke398

The Sophia Princess arrived the other day. She is bigger than I expected. She currently has about 16 hours on her and the WA6SE has about 50ish. So far, so good.


----------



## debitsohn

wow thats beautiful. i dont think ill be able to afford one.


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sophia Princess arrived the other day. She is bigger than I expected. She surrently has about 16 hours on her and the WA6SE has about 50ish. So far, so good.

 http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/54/dsc7781b.jpg
 [IMG]http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2396/dsc7776c.jpg[/i]
 [/td] [/tr] [/table]


Looks fantastic! Wish I can try WA6SE someday!_


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks fantastic! Wish I can try WA6SE someday!_

 

I would also want to try them someday, damn nobody in Melbourne got one, we are getting into this meet soon.


----------



## tosehee

Grats. She looks great with WA6SE..


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Holy Glenn, what a collection of tubes for your WA6, you should have a long period enough to enjoy.


----------



## punkaroo

I got a defective Sophia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It seems to power on when it wants to, and then power off. It's inserted all the way and it still powers on only when it feels like it.

 It sounds amazing even with only a few hours on it! But now I have to return it back to Jack


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got a defective Sophia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems to power on when it wants to, and then power off. It's inserted all the way and it still powers on only when it feels like it.

 It sounds amazing even with only a few hours on it! But now I have to return it back to Jack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Jack will provide 30 days warranty if you gought it direct with your WA6. I have mine went wrong within the period and got a replacement from Jack when he inspected it's not caused by miss-used (but dunno how). So, just report your case to Jack and wait for his advise and back to enjoy your music when the replacement arrived.


----------



## dannie01

Sorry, double post.


----------



## DoingOK

Question for you guys (and Jack later). My WA6 is black, but I think it would look very nice if the case was silver and the volume and power button was silver. Could I buy just the case? I want the socket section still to remain black along with the transformer cover. Hmmmm.


----------



## VicMackey

Hi everybody!

 1st post and my WA6SE arrived yesterday! It's a wonderful piece of amp. But I was wondering something. Is there a reason, why the tubesockets of the 6de7's are not in the center of their holes? I noticed that on pictures of other WA6SE's too. 

 Doesn't really bother me, but it doesn't look perfect anymore...


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody!

 1st post and my WA6SE arrived yesterday! It's a wonderful piece of amp. But I was wondering something. Is there a reason, why the tubesockets of the 6de7's are not in the center of their holes? I noticed that on pictures of other WA6SE's too. 

 Doesn't really bother me, but it doesn't look perfect anymore...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine is offset as well. The screws on the underside of the amp look offset too, but I never look at that part except for when I had to reset the feet since it was a little wobbly at first.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody!

 1st post and my WA6SE arrived yesterday! It's a wonderful piece of amp. But I was wondering something. Is there a reason, why the tubesockets of the 6de7's are not in the center of their holes? I noticed that on pictures of other WA6SE's too. 

 Doesn't really bother me, but it doesn't look perfect anymore...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Welcome to head-fi VicMackey, and congrats on your new amp!


----------



## VicMackey

Thanks St3ve. I've been reading for a long time here. Please excuse my semi-perfect english...

 As I said, no big deal about the sockets, but I think that's something jack should try to improve. The amps are not cheap and because tube-amps are something people often want to expose in their living-room, they should look as perfect as possible.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody!

 1st post and my WA6SE arrived yesterday! It's a wonderful piece of amp. But I was wondering something. Is there a reason, why the tubesockets of the 6de7's are not in the center of their holes? I noticed that on pictures of other WA6SE's too. 

 Doesn't really bother me, but it doesn't look perfect anymore...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The tube sockets on my 2 year old standard 6 aren't perfectly centered either. Doesn't really bother me at all...


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The tube sockets on my 2 year old standard 6 aren't perfectly centered either. Doesn't really bother me at all...




_

 

That looks pretty "centered" to my eyes but maybe it's just the picture? I have never noticed this problem when I had the amp.


----------



## VicMackey

atbglenn, yours look perfect to me. my 2 tubes almost touch the left edge of the hole....


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks pretty "centered" to my eyes but maybe it's just the picture? I have never noticed this problem when I had the amp._

 

I'm being hyper critical when I say they are not *perfectly* centered. They're only slightly off, but still technically not centered.


----------



## VicMackey

If you look on jack's website at the pictures of the black 6SE (pictures 7&8) you can clearly see, that the 6DE7 are not centered. they almost touch the left edge..same thing with mine...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you look on jack's website at the pictures of the black 6SE (pictures 7&8) you can clearly see, that the 6DE7 are not centered. they almost touch the left edge..same thing with mine...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 I just took a look and you're right. It's more off center than mine


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for you guys (and Jack later). My WA6 is black, but I think it would look very nice if the case was silver and the volume and power button was silver. Could I buy just the case? I want the socket section still to remain black along with the transformer cover. Hmmmm.
_

 

Changing the chassis would be a real pain in the ass. Minimally you would have to unwire the power transformer, possibly the output transformers. It just wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Changing the chassis would be a real pain in the ass. Minimally you would have to unwire the power transformer, possibly the output transformers. It just wouldn't be worth it._

 

any type of work can be done, given that you are willing to pay for the service. 

 I am interested in adding the preamp to my WA22.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any type of work can be done, given that you are willing to pay for the service. 

 I am interested in adding the preamp to my WA22._

 

What you say is true, but at what cost? I would think adding pre-amp inputs would be much easier than swapping a chassis, and much cheaper too...


----------



## debitsohn

if you had to choose the pdps or a princess rect. which would be the better choice? i have a WA6 without pdps coming this week and im wondering if i should keep it and buy a princess or sell it and use the princess money to buy a new one with the pdps. thanks


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you look on jack's website at the pictures of the black 6SE (pictures 7&8) you can clearly see, that the 6DE7 are not centered. they almost touch the left edge..same thing with mine...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

How long was your build time? Maybe Jack sent you the one in the pictures. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on your WA6SE. Did you get any upgrades when you purchased?


----------



## VicMackey

Build time was 6 weeks! Jack had some delay. No upgrades, just the stock-version. I might upgrade the rectifier in near future and buy an EML 5U4G. I'm not a believer regarding the rectifier tube, but I might change my mind. 

 No big deal about the sockets. As long as it sounds good....Doesn't look too nice though. But any bigger tube could be a problem. Or are they all the same size?


----------



## tke398

I bought mine stock as well, but ordered the Princess a few days later. I swapped it in already, but I can't make any comments since the amp is still burning in. One of these days I'll swap the rectifiers to see if I hear a difference.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_atbglenn, yours look perfect to me. my 2 tubes almost touch the left edge of the hole....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is about how mine is too. I can't say it bothers me at all, and you can't tell unless you are looking down into it anyway. So long as the tube doesn't make contact with the chassis all is well.

 edit: I've just put some small bottle tubes into my amp and they sit perfectly centered in the holes. Curious that only the big bottles are offset........ perhaps the tubes themselves have the pins offset?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a believer regarding the rectifier tube, but I might change my mind._

 

I had subtle expectations too, but each rectifier I've tried has sound markedly different. The rectifier seems to matter more with transformer coupled output than it does with OTL, though exactly why that is the case is above my head at the moment. Perhaps it is similar to how a quality power supply can significantly affect some solid state designs.

 I'm sold on EML myself for a future upgrade. Too many people have reported issues with the Sophia tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Before I go on, is anybody bothered by all the tube rolling impression posts I'm putting in this thread? I thought I'd be nice to see some listening impressions here again, but I seem to be the only one into it right now.

 Anyway..... I'm getting ready to start trying different power tubes and wanted to start with a sanity check. I have several 6FD7 tubes in addition to the ones I received as stock. I know one of the stock tubes is RCA, I can see just barely enough printing to make it out and the other appears to have identical construction. So, I took my 1970 build big bottle RCA 6FD7s whose construction is identical to the stock tubes and put them into the amp. I expected them to sound more or less the same but received a big surprise. Completely different sound. There is a HUGE reduction in treble energy. These tubes are downright dark. Now I like dark, but there is such a thing as too dark even for me. I never thought anything could pull this much treble out of the k701s, they sound like a different headphone right now. The nicest part is vocals, very smooth and seductive. There is a very natural tone and body to male vocals. The soundstage is still big, but not as airy. There is actually considerably less bass, so this darkness to the sound was not achieved through pumping up the low end. The bad part is female vocals and strings sound too soft, and rather lifeless. Piano also sounds soft and blunted. Bass notes are slow and soft, almost to the point of being bloated. These tubes sound almost like polar opposites from the ones I just took out. I'm finding it really, really hard to believe they are both RCA 6FD7s but they are. I'm sure Jack wouldn't send me a tube he hadn't tested, and the other pair was purchased through vacuumtubes.net who also tests their tubes. All I can say is I'm fascinated and if I can find a nice middle ground I'll probably be pretty happy. Even though I thought the previous tubes were bright, they were not very fatiguing and the upshot is they breathed new life into some things. Maybe I don't know my preferences as well as I think I do.

 After this I'm going to go through the rest of my 6FD7s before moving onto any other type to see if I hear further variation or if I can establish that one sound or the other is "normal" for this tube. I'm tempted to think for now that these tubes have some kind of issue. With a more balanced headphone I think these tubes would sound downright muddy with so little treble.

 edit: these tubes have to have something wrong with them. With good recordings they sound awful, very veiled. My "worst case scenario" test songs that sound really bright and harsh are completely tamed and them some. There just isn't hardly anything going on above 3-4 Khz as far as I can hear. Part of the spectrum just seems like it is gone. The more I play them the darker the sound gets. My writings up top were with less than 20 minutes of warm up time.

 edit edit: I put the stock tubes back in and they sound just like they did before (very nice, just a touch bright with some recordings), so my hearing isn't lying to me. Next up: 6FD7 set #3.


----------



## midoo1990

I am definetly not bother xcaliber,I read every thing posted in this thread and I definetly read your impressions with no comment
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.it is very useful because this is my first tube amp.


----------



## SillyHoney

Xcalibur, I also read all your tube impression. Surely one day you will receive my PM regarding tube rolling


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SillyHoney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xcalibur, I also read all your tube impression. Surely one day you will receive my PM regarding tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wonder why he thought that way. Tube rolling impressions are great asset to the existing users.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tube rolling impressions are great asset to the existing users._

 

Certainly are. It might be cool to compile a list of the various impressions somewhere. There is a lot of valuable information in this thread.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder why he thought that way. Tube rolling impressions are great asset to the existing users._

 

Because half the page was full of my long posts. Some forum users don't appreciate this. 

 So the consensus is keep writing. Thanks for weighing in guys.

 By the way, I was able to confirm that pair of 6FD7s were bad. I've since tried a few others and they are fairly consistent in sound with the stock pair. Not identical, but the differences are far more subtle. I have one left to check and I'll summarize the experience then move onto actually rolling other tubes besides the 6FD7 which I'm sure is more valuable information to others.

 The reason I've been so hung up on the 6FD7 is mostly pursuit of personal knowledge. I wanted to pick one tube type to fully explore. For example does vintage (70's vs 60's vs 50's) affect sound signature? Or construction (black plate vs black/grey plate). Also there was both a thin and fat bottle. I wanted to hear for myself if any of these variations actually changed the sound and now I know. For the record the differences were noticeable enough to be worth caring about IMO and I'll write more about it later.


----------



## VicMackey

Beside the Sophia 274B and the EML 274B/5U4G, which other rectifiers are there for the WA6SE? 

 As much as I would like to buy the EML, it is very expensive. On the other hand, I would like a good looking (and good sounding) tube to put in my new amp. 

 Any suggestions for something cheaper?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beside the Sophia 274B and the EML 274B/5U4G, which other rectifiers are there for the WA6SE? 

 As much as I would like to buy the EML, it is very expensive. On the other hand, I would like a good looking (and good sounding) tube to put in my new amp. 

 Any suggestions for something cheaper?_

 

Here is a cut and paste from one of takezo's older posts on this subject:
 --------------------------------------------------------------
 RECTIFIERS ( RECTIFIER ):
 *these must be at or below 3.0A

 5U4G/ 5U4GA/ 5U4GB/ 5U4WG ( U52, VT-244, 5931 )
 5AR4 ( GZ34 )
 5AS4
 5R4/ GA/ GB/ GY/ GYA/ GYB/ WGA/ WGB ( CV717 )
 5V4G ( GZ32, CV593 )
 5AQ4
 5Y3G/ T
 5Z3 ( with adapter; 4-pin version of 5u4g )
 5Z4G/ T ( GZ30, 52KU, CV1863, CV2748 )
 U50, U54, U88
 53KU
 GZ33
 GZ37 ( CV378 )
 422A
 274A ( with adapter )
 274B *don't use chinese variance with 4.0A
 --------------------------------------------------------------

 In short, there are quite a few to choose from, though it is widely agreed that the 274B is the best and represents the "end of the road" for rectifier rolling. The 5AR4 and 5U4G are also very popular. They all have their own sound so have fun and experiment. Right now I'm really liking my 5AS4 which is basically a 5AR4 with pumped up bass. I'm going to get an ST version (the larger coke bottle shaped glass) to try as well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Alright, I'm all the way though my 6FD7 tubes now. I'll try to be brief since I tend to ramble. Here are how the other tubes stacked up against the "baseline" sound of the 6FD7 RCA big bottle I received from Jack.

 Zenith 6FD7 Big Bottle (1965, black/grey plate) - These are RCAs rebranded as Zenith. Overall they sound very close to the stock tubes. The high end is a touch more mild and the bass is slightly faster and stronger but both are subtle. Otherwise they sound the same. This was an easy confirmation that my other pair of 6FD7 tubes were bad.

 RCA 6FD7 Small Bottle (1969, black/grey plate with shield divider) - These sounded notably different from the big bottle in a couple of ways. Bass is faster and more controlled, quite substantially so. I was very impressed by bass control on these, they made the big bottle feel loose in the bass by comparison. Texture within bass notes is much better too. They are a little more detailed throughout the midrange too, less smooth and more revealing with a more pointed but still controlled top end. Soundstage is considerably smaller but imaging is more focused within that soundstage. There is some "honk" to certain midrange frequencies that made the sound turn hard edged. This worsens at higher volumes, but it could be remedied with the proper amount of break-in on the tube. All of the tubes I'm writing impressions on are green with only an hour or so of use. I figure the comparison is fair so long as they are all equally new, but tubes are known to smooth out with break in so this harshness may not be a concern in the long run.

 Basically the small bottle takes on some of the qualities of the 6DE7, with better control and PRAT in exchange for losing some of the big airy sound of its big bottle brother. I personally prefer the big bottle, but the small bottle is clearly superior for things like rock music. It adds speed and energy to the music without sounding hot or aggressive still.

 RCA 6FD7 Big Bottle (1960 vintage, dual black plate /w cross shaped plates) - It took me a long time to find this. A very helpful gentleman at Tube World helped me to establish what I was looking for here. This is the very oldest 6FD7 you can find, and represents the less common early design where the large plate is cross shaped instead of being flat. So far they have been an interesting listen that seems to carry some of the advantages of the small bottle tube over to the big bottle world. They have all the soundstage of the later vintage big bottles, but bass control and dynamics are superior. Not by a lot but enough to appreciate. The slightly hot upper midrange of the newer 6FD7s is not present here, and instead this tube favors the lower and middle midrange registers which highlights vocals a bit more. The top end is super smooth with no peakiness at all, but right now the midrange shows some of the hard edge honk I complained about in the small bottle tube. Again this might go away since these tubes have only about an hour of use, but it was bothersome enough to make me turn down the volume a few times. One place where they clearly excel over the later vintage versions is detail and texture. Individual instruments and notes within the stereo image are more clearly defined and individual notes more clearly delineated. The newer 6FD7s tend to smooth out textures for a relaxing presentation, but this tube presents them clearly with better texture detail in voices and strings. It never sounds harsh or edgy either, just refined and revealing. The overall tonal balance feels better too, very even from top to bottom. I'd say if the midrange honk goes away with break in this tube is THE 6FD7 to have, though they are much harder to find than the newer vintages.

 Hopefully that will help anybody wondering which 6FD7 tube to get. The biggest point is the small vs. big bottle issue. In all the threads I've read nobody has ever really discussed it much. Takezo told me once he felt the big bottle was more airy sounding, which I found to be true but the differences extended beyond that as well.

 Next up: other tubes. I have an RCA 6DE7 with shield, a Tung-Sol 6CY7 and a Raytheon 6EW7 big bottle to try out after this.


----------



## Covenant

You didn't try the Sylvania 6FD7 big bottles though


----------



## tke398

Great Job, xcalibur. I'm following your posts closely since I'll probably start tube rolling in a little bit. I appreciate your effort to consolidate things.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You didn't try the Sylvania 6FD7 big bottles though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Given the Sylvania reputation for being brighter and leaner I didn't think it would jive with my tastes. Though, in my defense Jack told me he was sending me Sylvania which is why I didn't buy one. I did want to hear the difference.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Given the Sylvania reputation for being brighter and leaner I didn't think it would jive with my tastes. Though, in my defense Jack told me he was sending me Sylvania which is why I didn't buy one. I did want to hear the difference._

 

It normally doesn't match mine either. But WA6SE with Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7's and an EML Mesh 5U4G rectifier was the best tube combo I ever heard through it.... and then I discovered that the 6SE isn't electrically compatible with 6FD7s and that I had to stop using them


----------



## Xcalibur255

One thing I'm noticing about the black plates as they continue to play is how much more extended they are in the treble. The newer 6FD7s are a bit rolled off at the very top, but these are not. It really adds a lot of detail to the mix, but the overall energy of the presentation is a bit higher too. I think these tubes would synergize better with Sennheisers than my AKGs. They are not fatiguing per se but I think I the creamy smoothness of the newer 6FD7s works better with the AKGs. These black plates are clearly a superior sounding tube from a technical standpoint though and would complement a balanced sounding high end phone well. I'm thinking T1.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It normally doesn't match mine either. But WA6SE with Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7's and an EML Mesh 5U4G rectifier was the best tube combo I ever heard through it.... and then I discovered that the 6SE isn't electrically compatible with 6FD7s and that I had to stop using them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You might have liked these black plate RCAs too then. They are much more revealing than the normal RCAs but aren't peaky in the treble.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I'm noticing about the black plates as they continue to play is how much more extended they are in the treble. The newer 6FD7s are a bit rolled off at the very top, but these are not. It really adds a lot of detail to the mix, but the overall energy of the presentation is a bit higher too. I think these tubes would synergize better with Sennheisers than my AKGs._

 

Ah, you're using it with K701. In that case you're right, the Sylvania's would likely start to induce fatigue. I was pairing my Woo with a HD600, which really loved the treble extension.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Just remembered, one other thing I should clarify from my earlier impressions. I found out the odd reverb effect in the soundstage wasn't being caused by the 6FD7s at all, it was the 5AS4 rectifier which has since stopped doing it now that it has some hours on it. Didn't want people thinking they were going to hear that from the RCAs in case it sounded like a bad thing to them.


----------



## Necrolic

If I were to pick up a WA6, would it be worth the extra $150 to go with the Sophia tube upgrade, or should I just stick with the stock offering with a pre-amp output for now?

 I ask because I've heard there have been some people who have encountered issues with the Sophia.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Necrolic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ask because I've heard there have been some people who have encountered issues with the Sophia._

 

I find the stock rectifier compresses the soundstage a bit. If you're worried about tube longevity, try the EML rectifiers. They come with a 1yr warranty.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*RCA 6DE7 (1960 vintage, black/grey plate with shield divider)* - These tubes live up to their reputation. Fast, dynamic, punchy, detailed. A lot of my impressions about the small bottle 6FD7 are similar here, only more so. My opinion of this tube is similar to what I've heard from others to be honest. It's a very fast and dynamic tube for rock, but has a small soundstage and doesn't flatter anything smooth or airy sounding like Jazz or piano. Bass notes hit with great speed and slam, and are clean and detailed. Treble is refined and reasonably well extended, with a very natural vocal presentation. It feels balanced from top to bottom with no peakiness anywhere in the frequency spectrum. This is a very revealing tube, but the small soundstage tends to pack all of those details into a rather confined space so there is not much air or space between instruments. Separation is still great though, especially between individual notes. The thing I miss the most is the lack of ambience and note decay. Where as the 6FD7 tends to hold sustained notes for a long time, the 6DE7 cuts them off quickly creating a cleaner and faster sound with no overhang but also no richness or ambience. It really is a matter of personal preference as I don't think one is more right than the other, but each complements certain types of music better than the other. If I had to pick only one to live with it would be the 6FD7 because I love the longer note decay, but I would miss being able to hear the cleaner bass and note detailing of the 6DE7.

 Overall a lot to like. Detailed, but very refined. I didn't hear a harsh note anywhere in the sample songs I played. I see why so many people pair these with the Sophia. It's huge soundstage combined with the fast dynamics of this tube would end up with a very nice middle of the road balance.

 One thing I have noticed about overall dynamic range with tubes is that they just don't seem to do this as well as a SS amp. It's one small thing amongst many, but I've noticed in passages where a transition from quiet to loud should be very pronounced and on the WA6 it really just isn't. As if the quiet passage had been normalized a bit, causing an overall reduction in dynamic range. Perhaps the rectifier is doing this since I've used the same one with all these tubes, but this has been consistent with every tube I've tried so far. 

 I'd strongly recommend this tube as a starting place for those who aren't sure about their preferences yet. It does many things right and is nicely balanced. It complements a fairly wide range of music, so long as you aren't expecting the last word on soundstage or ambiance.


----------



## punkaroo

I have to ship my now, completely dead Sophia Princess back. I LOVE this rectifier, but it's barely lasted me a few hours! Is this typical? How long can I realistically expect it to last?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Necrolic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to pick up a WA6, would it be worth the extra $150 to go with the Sophia tube upgrade, or should I just stick with the stock offering with a pre-amp output for now?

 I ask because I've heard there have been some people who have encountered issues with the Sophia._

 

You can buy the Sophia with a 1 year warranty, direct from Sophia Electric... or... you can have Jack order you one - I think they're about $50 more.

http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/274b.htm

 Or... you can try some other rectifiers, which sound great - such as... the Tung Sol, or Sylvania, or Philips (same as Sylvania). I really like the Sylvania ST shape 5AR4, or equivalent. The Tung Sol are reported to be great also - but harder to find and more expensive. Personally, I'd start with those. Great Sound, when teamed with the Sylvania or Raytheon 6EW7s or 6FD7s.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can buy the Sophia with a 1 year warranty, direct from Sophia Electric... or... you can have Jack order you one - I think they're about $50 more._

 

For that much you can almost get the EML, which would be the better bet based on everything I've read from folks around here.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For that much you can almost get the EML, which would be the better bet based on everything I've read from folks around here._

 

Agree. EML are better built. Sound soomther with great dynamic (after 200 hours)


----------



## Xcalibur255

Continuing on with tube rolling impressions......

*Tung-Sol 6CY7 Thin Bottle (unknown vintage)* - So everybody doesn't think I have a total love affair with the RCA brand I do in fact have a couple of others to try out. My very first impression of this tube is that it is soft sounding all around. Below average speed, with loose bass and average note delineation. Texture detail is soft too. Treble is well extended but a little lacking in control at the top, giving vocals a bit of bite at times when it shouldn't. The cymbals in Coldplay's "42" sounded a bit smeared so the control isn't so great on the top end just like the bottom. Even very mellow stuff like Jack Johnson has some bite to his "s" sounds which isn't right. They sound a bit peaky in both the mid bass and lower/mid treble region. Soundstage is wider than the 6DE7 but not by too much, though it is a very natural sounding one. Focus is below average, I cannot place individual notes and instruments at times when I know what I should be looking for. I can't hear the texture on acoustic guitar notes either. Note decay is very long, though not in the same way as the 6FD7. I believe it is simply a side effect of the tube's poor speed and dynamics. Piano sounds okay because the bass itself is strong and the notes hang well, but the lack of focus hurts clarity here too. Bass weight is a bit above average so the initial impression of a piano hammer strike is good until you hear what follows. Despite having a bit of a 'U' shaped frequency response they sound a bit boring with instrumental overall too.

 It sounds like I'm hating on this Tung-Sol, but the truth is it just isn't impressive compared to what I've already heard. It's not a bad sounding tube and if it were the first one I'd heard it would probably take a bit longer to start noticing flaws. There is no hiding that sloppy bass though, the control there is just not good. The RCA 6DE7 is vastly superior in bass control (along with speed and control everywhere else in the spectrum actually), it's an almost night and day difference. The bass note overhang is probably why this Tung-Sol sounds so soft in general.

 On the plus side they look downright _cool_ in the amp. By this I mean the heater glow is much, much brighter and easier to see than in the RCA tubes where it is hidden by the plates more completely. The glow is so bright it completely fills up the tube socket holes and shines upwards like a light pillar. The glow makes nearby objects visible in the dark. Very cool.

 Now for the very strange: During a piano passage the tubes began crackling loudly, and when they stopped a few seconds later they sounded better. I had to go back and re-check the songs I played before, but the bass became less flabby and the highs less sibilant. It hasn't happened again either. The change wasn't significant though, and I still find their bass and overall presentation to be underwhelming. They don't sound terrible by any means even though my impressions may read like that, they just aren't as good as the RCAs by a noticeable margin in my opinion.

 One thing to keep in mind are the headphones I am listening on: the K701s are naturally bright and I myself prefer a slightly darker and smooth sound so my preference for the RCA tubes (which have a reputation for being darker and lush) is a natural fit. With different headpones these Tung-Sols might be a better fit, though nothing will ever change the fact that their PRAT and bass control aren't impressive.


----------



## Xcalibur255

And last but not least.....

*Raytheon 6EW7 Big Bottle (unknown vintage, clear top, side getter)* - Smooooooooth. These tubes are very laid back. I wouldn't say the highs are rolled off because cymbals sounds crisp and airy, but there isn't the slightest hint of harshness or stridency anywhere, in anything. Vocals are creamy smooth. Of course this is a double-edged sword because if you like to hear the fine textures within voices and instruments they are glossed over here.... sacrificed for that smoothness. But, detail isn't what this tube is after....... this tube's mission in life is to be kind to your ears. Even at loud volumes fatigue never sets in, and that is _really_ saying something with the K701s! Dynamics are okay, it is not this tube's forte, but they are not slow or soft the way I disliked in the 6CY7. Polite would be a good way to describe it. Bass presence is about the same as the 6FD7, but the weight and initial attack are less so overall the bass is a little more tame. Because the highs are so laid back the bass remains prominent in the musical presentation though. Soundstage is big and airy. Not quite as big as the 6FD7, but it sounds a bit more natural rather than an effect and air between notes is first rate. Focus is good, I can place instruments within the sounstage very clearly, and there is no smearing or holdover on notes. Note decay is on the long side and sounds very natural here. It produces a very nice ambiance in the right recordings. The midrange seems a tad bit colored at times, making vocals sound a bit off from natural. It's not a major complaint though. The overall tonal balance of the tube is very neutral with a gradually falling response in the highs, to my ears. When things get busy with very dense recordings such as Coldplay's "42" things can get a little congested and note separation starts to suffer, but my gut is telling me this might be a lack of break-in in this case.

 This is a great classical or jazz tube. With rock music or anything very fast and dynamic it makes the music too polite, on the verge of being boring to listen to. There isn't any "snap" to anything. It is endlessly relaxing though and there is merit in that. Between this and the 6FD7 I would still take the 6FD7 but I can certainly appreciate the better qualities presented here.

 I think the very best way I can summarize is that, out of all the tubes I've listened to, the 6FD7 was the only one that made me forget to skip around listening for details in tracks. I wanted to just let each song play through to its end and then listen to the next one. With the 6DE7 it was because, despite their first rate performance, they had a little too much energy with the K701s and I couldn't just get lost in the music because my sensitivity to treble energy was kicking in. For this 6EW7 its because the music just doesn't seem to have a lot of soul or rhythm to it that makes you want to tap your foot or bob your head. A bit too much PRAT is sacrificed for the smooth character. The 6FD7 seems to combine the two worlds well with few compromises and will be my tube of choice going forward for the most part.

 I probably ought to finish up tonight by re-listening the stock pair to make sure my impressions are holding true as well. I'm going to check my bad pair again too and make sure they are still bad and it wasn't just a pin contact issue or something.

 I must say the differences between both types and brands of power tubes was bigger than I was expecting. Audiophiles (myself included!) have a tendency to speak in exaggerated terms sometimes, describing barely detectable differentiations with big words, but I found the differences between these tubes easy to tell apart. No critical analysis is even required to notice the basic character differences between them. Each has its own voice so to speak. It's been a fun day comparing them I must say.

 That's it for impressions on the tubes I have on hand. Hopefully you guys have found it a bit helpful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My final pick: 1960 RCA 6DE7 w/shield & 1960 RCA 6FD7 w/dual black plates had the greatest musical detail and provided the most "wow" but the tube I simply enjoyed listening to the most with my current headphones was the 1965 Zenith branded RCA 6FD7 black/gray plate. It is just a touch smoother than the stock tube, and upon close analysis there are small construction differences so the vintage must be a bit different. I really enjoyed listening to these last night and this is what will be going back into the amp full time so long as I'm listening with the k701s. I think in the future with a less treble happy headphone like the Beyer T1 or even a Senn HD650 the two tubes I mentioned at the top of this paragraph will become my "unicorns" so to speak but for now the Zenith gets the most right for me.


----------



## bol

Does anyone else find the RCA and GE 6DE7's flat sounding without as much tonal range as the Raytheon 6DE7's?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Xcalibur255, those are some nice impressions. Thanks!

 bol, I have some Raytheon 6DE7 as backups, so maybe I'll pull them out sometime and take a listen to them. I am using the RCA which I found to be a little better than the Sylvania that came with the WA6. I also have some GE 6DE7 as backups that I haven't tried either.


----------



## regal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agree. EML are better built. Sound soomther with great dynamic (after 200 hours)_

 

It still doesn't fix the root cause. The power supply has too much input capacitance for these tubes. There is no easy work around, adding a small cap and resistor in front doesn't help, model it on PSUD if you don't believe me. These rectifiers really need a choke input power supply for longevity.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It still doesn't fix the root cause. The power supply has too much input capacitance for these tubes. There is no easy work around, adding a small cap and resistor in front doesn't help, model it on PSUD if you don't believe me. These rectifiers really need a choke input power supply for longevity._

 

So now you know more about Woo amps than Jack and family. Please give me a brake. 

 And yes I agree with Seamaster. 

 I have had one Princess go bad in three weeks, but the replacement Princess is just fine after 700 hours. Most don't have problems with the Princess, and I have never heard of a EML 5U4G/274B mesh or solid plate go bad in a Woo. 

 ss


----------



## regal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So now you know more about Woo amps than Jack and family. Please give me a brake. 

 And yes I agree with Seamaster. 

 I have had one Princess go bad in three weeks, but the replacement Princess is just fine after 700 hours. Most don't have problems with the Princess, and I have never heard of a EML 5U4G/274B mesh or solid plate go bad in a Woo. 

 ss_

 


 Its right in the Datasheets, Sophia does even recommend their rectifier in this amp. I'm just trying to help. Woo makes a nice looking chassis, that's his forte not electrical design, sorry. In those 700 hours, try turning the amp of after each hr of use like most users do, you won't be happy.


----------



## punkaroo

My replacement is coming directly from Sophia Electric; so I wonder if it'll have a one year warranty?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its right in the Datasheets, Sophia does even recommend their rectifier in this amp. I'm just trying to help. Woo makes a nice looking chassis, that's his forte not electrical design, sorry. In those 700 hours, try turning the amp of after each hr of use like most users do, you won't be happy._

 

Yes I have done a lot of tube rolling and that includes Rectifiers. And yes my Princess is still going strong. On and off in 15 min many times in a row. 

 However I do think that the EML Rectifier be it a 5U4G or 274B is a better built Rectifier, and that is what Seamaster was pointing out.

 So please if you really are tiring to help don't post, as when you where tiring to help in the BD-83SE thread on AVS you were run out of that thread.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punkaroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My replacement is coming directly from Sophia Electric; so I wonder if it'll have a one year warranty?_

 

I don't think so.

 My replacement also came from Sophia Electric, and like I said after 700 hours I am happy.

 ss


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It still doesn't fix the root cause. The power supply has too much input capacitance for these tubes. There is no easy work around, adding a small cap and resistor in front doesn't help, model it on PSUD if you don't believe me. These rectifiers really need a choke input power supply for longevity._

 

According to Jack the high capacitance doesn't come into play because the voltage applied to the rectifier is much lower than what it's designed to handle. I think the problem is caused by poor Sophia Electric QC..


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to Jack the high capacitance doesn't come into play because the voltage applied to the rectifier is much lower than what it's designed to handle. I think the problem is caused by poor Sophia Electric QC.._

 

Strongly agreed...


----------



## K_19

My Princess is still going strong ATM after 4-5 months with no change in colour yet or anything (although admittingly I only use the amp on average 2-3 hrs a day). Mine's only the stock version and very early production of WA6 though if that matters any. Hopefully it'll truck along for many years to come but if it does happen to go bad on me within a short time period, then I'd probably replace it with the EML at that time.


----------



## VicMackey

Damn...pls somebody tell me that the EML doesn't improve the sound over the stock-rectifier at all... dunno how long I can resist anymore to spend too much money...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn...pls somebody tell me that the EML doesn't improve the sound over the stock-rectifier at all... dunno how long I can resist anymore to spend too much money..._

 

Ok. EML doesn't improve the sound...








 Does that help?

 Heh. I doubt it..


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn...pls somebody tell me that the EML doesn't improve the sound over the stock-rectifier at all... dunno how long I can resist anymore to spend too much money..._

 

Resistance is futile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was able to resist a WA6SE for a full year. Had I known then what I know now, I would have skipped my interim purchase of the X-can V8.


----------



## VicMackey

My 1st plan was to buy the WA3+. After I spoke to Jack I agreed to try the WA6 and where did I end? With the WA6SE... Tell me about resistance...


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 1st plan was to buy the WA3+. After I spoke to Jack I agreed to try the WA6 and where did I end? With the WA6SE... Tell me about resistance...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh yeah, forgot to add....."sorry about your wallet!"


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone else find the RCA and GE 6DE7's flat sounding without as much tonal range as the Raytheon 6DE7's?_

 

I haven't heard a Raytheon yet, but my RCA 6DE7 was anything but flat. It was every bit a match for my solid state amp in terms of dynamics and frequency extension. A very detailed and fast tube with good balance.


----------



## regal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 So please if you really are tiring to help don't post, as when you where tiring to help in the BD-83SE thread on AVS you were run out of that thread._

 

What are you talking about? I don't even know what a BD-83Se is.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to Jack the high capacitance doesn't come into play because the voltage applied to the rectifier is much lower than what it's designed to handle. I think the problem is caused by poor Sophia Electric QC.._

 

 Its all about current with rectifiers not voltage. Why don't you guys demand it be fixed so I can buy one? I don't see the point in blaming Sohia when the amp doesn't meet their specs. You design an amp around a tube not the other way around.


----------



## takezo

it's an easy fix... use a 4uf or 8uf cap from the rect. followed by a 100 or 150 ohm resistor
 to the rest of the circuit... any directly heated rectifier should be safe for years. or go
 full out and implement a choke... why woo doesn't do the former is beyond me but they stand
 behind there product with a warranty i believe. (the 6de7 doesn't pull any more than 90mA
 from the rect., which i believe is the max. for the sophia mesh 274b as well. safe bet is
 to go for the solid plate version which can handle up to 160mA. or the eml mesh 274b, which
 can handle up to 140mA)


----------



## Xcalibur255

What is the current draw for the 6FD7? Perhaps this is the reason some of the Sophia tubes are failing early?


----------



## regal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's an easy fix... use a 4uf or 8uf cap from the rect. followed by a 100 or 150 ohm resistor
 to the rest of the circuit... any directly heated rectifier should be safe for years. or go
 full out and implement a choke... why woo doesn't do the former is beyond me but they stand
 behind there product with a warranty i believe. (the 6de7 doesn't pull any more than 90mA
 from the rect., which i believe is the max. for the sophia mesh 274b as well. safe bet is
 to go for the solid plate version which can handle up to 160mA. or the eml mesh 274b, which
 can handle up to 140mA)_

 


 Thanks, I thought that the extra resistor may drop too much voltage, guess its time to open the wallet. As far as current draw about the most you can draw at the voltages Woo uses is roughly 50ma per channel, but I doubt its that much. I designed a 6EW7 SET-OPT amp but to build it it would be huge monstrousity, I could never build a chassis as nice as Jack, they are stunning amps to look at.


----------



## Gradofan2

As I recall... about 2+ years ago... Jack worked with Sophia Electric to resolve the prior compatibility issue with the Sophia Princess 274B. Prior to those changes... some were reporting the Sophia Princess was flashing on start-up.

 I don't know what changes were made in the design, but reportedly, all WA6s / WA6SEs since that time incorporate the changes to make sure the tube is compatible with these amps. So... there should be no issue re: compatibility with the Sophia Princess with units produced after about Aug / Sep '08 (as I recall - but, might have been '07). 

 If you want more detailed clarification - I believe, one of the prior threads discussed the issue at length... or... you can contact Jack.


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I recall... about 2+ years ago... Jack worked with Sophia Electric to resolve the prior compatibility issue with the Sophia Princess 274B. Prior to those changes... some were reporting the Sophia Princess was flashing on start-up.

 I don't know what changes were made in the design, but reportedly, all WA6s / WA6SEs since that time incorporate the changes to make sure the tube is compatible with these amps. So... there should be no issue re: compatibility with the Sophia Princess with units produced after about Aug / Sep '08 (as I recall - but, might have been '07). 

 If you want more detailed clarification - I believe, one of the prior threads discussed the issue at length... or... you can contact Jack._

 

Hmm, this has me concerned a bit since I bought my stock WA6 used, and I know for a fact it is a VERY early production model from before 2008 (likely '06). So far my unit has been fine with the Princess (except one occasion where I spotted a slight 'spark' at startup, but haven't seen it since) but I wonder if I'm doing it harm by using the Sophia with it. If it does harm to my tube mostly then I could probably live with it and live with the slight risk, but I wouldn't want it messing with my amp or anything. I think I'll probably wait it out and see what develops (and perhaps contact Jack in meantime to get the full story on this).

 On the other hand, this DOES give me an additional excuse to perhaps send it back to Jack for the PDPS upgrade... hmm. Since I got the NuForce HDP now I could probably afford to send it back and still be with a decent amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My WA6 was built in the fall of 2007, went in for the PDPS upgrade May 2008, and I got the Sophia in September 2008, and it's all still running fine with no flashes of light at start up.


----------



## sillysally

I have E-Mailed Sophia Electric about the Princess 274B mesh and how it will work with the WA6SE.

 This is there Reply.

 "If your amp was made after Summer of 2008, Princess 274B mesh will work fine with your amp. Otherwise, please contact Jack at Woo Audio."

 I don't know why people insist on posting speculation and in some case's near slander, about one of the finest and most respected headphone amp builders/designer in the world. 

 My WA6SE is so good (as equipped now) that I had a hard time believing I could get a better Woo amp (WA5 LE) for what I want. But after many E-Mails to Jack and taking his advise (as I did with my WA6SE) I have a customized WA5 LE ordered, and of-course I will be reporting once I get the WA5 LE.

 ss


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have E-Mailed Sophia Electric about the Princess 274B mesh and how it will work with the WA6SE.

 This is there Reply.

 "If your amp was made after Summer of 2008, Princess 274B mesh will work fine with your amp. Otherwise, please contact Jack at Woo Audio."

*I don't know why people insist on posting speculation and in some case's near slander, about one of the finest and most respected headphone amp builders/designer in the world. *

 My WA6SE is so good (as equipped now) that I had a hard time believing I could get a better Woo amp (WA5 LE) for what I want. But after many E-Mails to Jack and taking his advise (as I did with my WA6SE) I have a customized WA5 LE ordered, and of-course I will be reporting once I get the WA5 LE.

 ss_

 

I concur many times over.
 When in doubt go to the source; that is a best-practice approach in its simplest form.

 Wow, a WA5 LE custom. What's the build time on that one and when will yours arrive?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I concur many times over.
 When in doubt go to the source; that is a best-practice approach in its simplest form.

 Wow, a WA5 LE custom. What's the build time on that one and when will yours arrive?_

 

This all started back in mid January, and hopefully it will get shipped next week.

 I had to get a new rack to accommodate the size and weight of this monster. So I guess I should put that together soon to make sure my short cords and cables can reach my other components. 

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Can anybody recommend some simple and affordable isolation pads for the amp? I'm getting a consistent hum and it turns out it is microphonics caused by the vibration my computer is sending through the desk.


----------



## Carmantom

Should I go WA6 or should I go WA6 SE? 

 I have read endlessly all the good information you have all provided. It has now become all gibberish to me, and I have become babbling idiot.

*We all know what that means. Pull the trigger and get it over with.*

 I will get the stock W6 SE and research the rectifier (another round of lunacy). If I don't see any convincing arguments otherwise, I will be going with the Sophia Princess. Ah, the name is so lovely maybe that will calm me down. I will be using with the Sennheiser HD600 s 

 Now the wait. I hope you'll have me in the club.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anybody recommend some simple and affordable isolation pads for the amp? I'm getting a consistent hum and it turns out it is microphonics caused by the vibration my computer is sending through the desk._

 

Check out Isonode Large. Also you may need to get these for your computer as well. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should I go WA6 or should I go WA6 SE? 

 I have read endlessly all the good information you have all provided. It has now become all gibberish to me, and I have become babbling idiot.

*We all know what that means. Pull the trigger and get it over with.*

 I will get the stock W6 SE and research the rectifier (another round of lunacy). If I don't see any convincing arguments otherwise, I will be going with the Sophia Princess. Ah, the name is so lovely maybe that will calm me down. I will be using with the Sennheiser HD600 s 

 Now the wait. I hope you'll have me in the club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Welcome to the club!

 Great choice.

 ss


----------



## trungerz

Hi - I also debated between amps. It was either the W6, W6SE, or WA22. I was all set on the WA22. I had even ordered the balanced cables before I ordered the amp. Ultimately, I decided that the price was too steep for the WA22. I took the extra money to spend on an addition to my home theater. 

 I went with the stock W6SE and the Sophia with thoughts of sending the amp in for upgrades in the future once the wallet recovers.

 It is a good thing I ordered mine yesterday as I may receive my amp a few days before you do Carmantom.

 I also want to thank everybody for all their great information they provided and all the pm's members have answered.

 *future member of the Woo Audio club*


----------



## Carmantom

* It is a good thing I ordered mine yesterday as I may receive my amp a few days before you do Carmantom.*

 Darn it! I was going to order it last week. Enjoy!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This all started back in mid January, and hopefully it will get shipped next week.

 I had to get a new rack to accommodate the size and weight of this monster. So I guess I should put that together soon to make sure my short cords and cables can reach my other components. 

 ss_

 

I am quite interested in your WA5LE custom. Update us with pics and what not.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am quite interested in your WA5LE custom. Update us with pics and what not._

 

I sure will.

 Looked at the WES with the Stax MK2 but the out-of-head soundstage doesn't seem to be there.

 Tried the RSA B-52 at Ray's house and used his balanced HD-800 and my SE (Cardas cable) HD-800, didn't hear much difference between my WA6SE max and the B-52 and that goes for both balanced and SE HD-800.

 Considered the EC balancing act, but not really knowing what goes into that amp and thinking there was no way the PSU could match the PSU of the WA5 LE I went with the WA5 LE. 
 Plus I know that my power cords and interconnects along with my power station works very well with my WA6SE and my source player. 

 ss


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sure will.

 Looked at the WES with the Stax MK2 but the out-of-head soundstage doesn't seem to be there.

 Tried the RSA B-52 at Ray's house and used his balanced HD-800 and my SE (Cardas cable) HD-800, didn't hear much difference between my WA6SE max and the B-52 and that goes for both balanced and SE HD-800.

 Considered the EC balancing act, but not really knowing what goes into that amp and thinking there was no way the PSU could match the PSU of the WA5 LE I went with the WA5 LE. 
 Plus I know that my power cords and interconnects along with my power station works very well with my WA6SE and my source player. 

 ss_

 

I am using the HE60 with WES and find the out of head soundstage is better than with the O2 for Jazz and Classical, but with rock or hip hop and electronic music I'll grab the O2.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check out Isonode Large. Also you may need to get these for your computer as well. 

 ss_

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I was also thinking it may be more helpful to put them under the computer instead until I realized that, crazy enough, it may not be vibration causing it afterall. The culprit is a moaning sound caused by a very particular resonance from the hard disk motor. The desk seems to amplify the sound like an echo chamber, and apparently the tubes are picking it up and passing it along as well. This is why it took me a few days to catch on, because I was used to hearing it coming from the outside of the headphone earcups anyway, until I realized it was also coming from the drivers now.

 Moving the computer out of the desk may be the only solution, but that will not be easy.


----------



## bol

Which tubes? I found the GE 6EW7's to be extremely microphonic while 6DE7's appear to be immune.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Moving the computer out of the desk may be the only solution, but that will not be easy._


----------



## tosehee

Sounds like a valid reasoning.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sure will.

 Looked at the WES with the Stax MK2 but the out-of-head soundstage doesn't seem to be there.

 Tried the RSA B-52 at Ray's house and used his balanced HD-800 and my SE (Cardas cable) HD-800, didn't hear much difference between my WA6SE max and the B-52 and that goes for both balanced and SE HD-800.

 Considered the EC balancing act, but not really knowing what goes into that amp and thinking there was no way the PSU could match the PSU of the WA5 LE I went with the WA5 LE. 
 Plus I know that my power cords and interconnects along with my power station works very well with my WA6SE and my source player. 

 ss_


----------



## midoo1990

i hope jack will finish mine soon,i am ampless right now because i traded my micro amp+an iem for d5000.i tried listening to my hd650 straight from my ipod touch and needless to say,it was crap.i will stick with my ie8 until the woo6 arrives.by this 22nd it should be four weeks since my order.Anyone using d5000 with woo6,can comment on the synergy or direct me to a post or even a review?thx.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considered the EC balancing act, but not really knowing what goes into that amp and thinking there was no way the PSU could match the PSU of the WA5 LE I went with the WA5 LE._

 

how did you come to this conclusion, if I may ask?


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....i tried listening to my hd650 straight from my ipod touch and needless to say,it was crap...._

 

Your HD650 won't sound crap when your WA6 turns up. Trust me, it really won't
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how did you come to this conclusion, if I may ask?_

 

Deduction. After reading many post's about the MK2 and also about the guy that backed out of selling his HE60 after he got his MK2s and doesn't know if he wants to keep the MK2s. 

 Plus the fact that I don't have the MK2 or the HE60s. I have the HD-800s and other dynamic headphones. 

 I have what I consider to be my three main components. Headphones, source and amp for what I use it for. 

 Also I should add that I not only use my audio system for music (CD/SACD) but for HD (ture hd, dts ma hd, 5.1/7.1) soundtracks from blu ray movies. Of course these types of soundtracks need to be downmixed for 2ch analog stereo. There is only one BD player that I know of that really does a great job of downmixing these HD soundtracks, and that is the Oppo BD-83. However the BD-83 in its base configuration does a great job of downmixing but its dac wasn't the best for sound quality, however that has all changed with the introduction of the BD-83SE Nuforce Edition and its 8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip and by stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels along with Nuforce's upgrades. 
 The detail in the downmixed stereo is amazing and of course for CD/SACD is breath taking. 

 So considering the cost and knowing how well my WA6SE(dynamic) and my HD-800s(dynamic) sound with my Oppo BD-83NE, I thought it best to stay with a dynamic amp. And of-course I did my homework for the WA5 LE and upgrades. 
 I should add that I have a 7.1 digital sound system but imo what I have listed above gives me a more realistic experience for both music and HD soundtracks. 
 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which tubes? I found the GE 6EW7's to be extremely microphonic while 6DE7's appear to be immune._

 

RCA 6FD7 big bottle. I also found the 6DE7 small bottle to be noticeably less susceptible to microphonics.


----------



## midoo1990

Sorry DP.


----------



## midoo1990

My wish is granted
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.I just got a tracking number from Jack.they should arrive next week and also my d5000 next week.this should be fun..
 It has been only 3 weeks since I sent the payment.


----------



## El_Doug

This was certainly a lot of interesting information, but it did not answer my question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps you did not notice my quoted text, but I was asking about the WA5 vs BA power supply comment 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Deduction. After reading many post's about the MK2 and also about the guy that backed out of selling his HE60 after he got his MK2s and doesn't know if he wants to keep the MK2s. 

 Plus the fact that I don't have the MK2 or the HE60s. I have the HD-800s and other dynamic headphones. 

 I have what I consider to be my three main components. Headphones, source and amp for what I use it for. 

 Also I should add that I not only use my audio system for music (CD/SACD) but for HD (ture hd, dts ma hd, 5.1/7.1) soundtracks from blu ray movies. Of course these types of soundtracks need to be downmixed for 2ch analog stereo. There is only one BD player that I know of that really does a great job of downmixing these HD soundtracks, and that is the Oppo BD-83. However the BD-83 in its base configuration does a great job of downmixing but its dac wasn't the best for sound quality, however that has all changed with the introduction of the BD-83SE Nuforce Edition and its 8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip and by stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels along with Nuforce's upgrades. 
 The detail in the downmixed stereo is amazing and of course for CD/SACD is breath taking. 

 So considering the cost and knowing how well my WA6SE(dynamic) and my HD-800s(dynamic) sound with my Oppo BD-83NE, I thought it best to stay with a dynamic amp. And of-course I did my homework for the WA5 LE and upgrades. 
 I should add that I have a 7.1 digital sound system but imo what I have listed above gives me a more realistic experience for both music and HD soundtracks. 
 ss_


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This was certainly a lot of interesting information, but it did not answer my question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps you did not notice my quoted text, but I was asking about the WA5 vs BA power supply comment_

 

Sorry but I am not going there (if jack wants to talk he will) except to say wiring for the primary and secondary, I have seen a picture of the inside (see attachment) and I like the new redesigned EML 5U4G rectifier that I know will work very well with the WA5 LE. Like I said I don't know nearly as much about the BA and haven't seen any pictures of the guts of the BA. I did how ever talk to Craig.

 ss


----------



## Modena

I am in receipt of my WA5, with premium parts and stepped atenuator with a sub out. Sadly, I've been sick for the last week and haven't unpacked it. I did open one of the crates and it was packed superbly. Managing to peak at one of the units, I was thoroughly impressed with the finish. It is a work of art. 

 I'll post a pic shortly.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am in receipt of my WA5, with premium parts and stepped atenuator with a sub out. Sadly, I've been sick for the last week and haven't unpacked it. I did open one of the crates and it was packed superbly. Managing to peak at one of the units, I was thoroughly impressed with the finish. It is a work of art. 

 I'll post a pic shortly._

 

You're sick? You're sick and can't enjoy your WA5? Well then why don't I come over with some chicken soup and then borrow your WA5 until you get better.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, get better soon so you can start to enjoy the music since you've already enjoyed its look. Congratulations.


----------



## mazinguerbeta

To excuse, but I would like to ask if wa22 in its sigle ended connection sounds well with low impedance headphones like grado. Thanks


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mazinguerbeta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To excuse, but I would like to ask if wa22 in its sigle ended connection sounds well with low impedance headphones like grado. Thanks_

 

I had no luck with any Grado with WA22. RS-1 and GS-1000. But Denon sounded great with WA22 in low impedance setting.


----------



## mazinguerbeta

I´m owner rs1, ps1 and l3000 ,all without balanced,and I´m thinking to buy this amp, regards


----------



## BIG POPPA

Man, I'm really liking the MS2's with my 3+ very modified. Got the Grado IC's too. My amp has finally settled down with the Black Gates. Have the best tubes. Glad I didn't get the WA6 or the SE. Like that I have a good choice in Power tubes and Pre tubes to choose from!


----------



## Modena

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're sick? You're sick and can't enjoy your WA5? Well then why don't I come over with some chicken soup and then borrow your WA5 until you get better.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, get better soon so you can start to enjoy the music since you've already enjoyed its look. Congratulations._

 

Well, my speakers aren't here yet either so I can't do much yet. I need to order up some cans right quick.


----------



## St3ve

Hi everyone,

 I've had my WA6 for about a month now, and absolutely LOVE it. One thing I was wondering about is how quickly the princess should be 'decaying'? I know that several thousands of hours is the quoted life-span, but I have noticed, over the last couple of days, that the glass has darkened significantly.





 (please excuse the awful iPhone-quality pic)

 Is this something I should be worrying about? or natural colouration for the 200 (est.) hours I have put on it?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone,

 I've had my WA6 for about a month now, and absolutely LOVE it. One thing I was wondering about is how quickly the princess should be 'decaying'? I know that several thousands of hours is the quoted life-span, but I have noticed, over the last couple of days, that the glass has darkened significantly.






 (please excuse the awful iPhone-quality pic)

 Is this something I should be worrying about? or natural colouration for the 200 (est.) hours I have put on it?

 Thanks in advance._

 

normal~.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_normal~._

 

Thanks tosehee, as long as nothing catastrophic is occurring. I guess that because its such a whopper of a tube, that the darkening seems more pronounced.

 Sorry about the page-gobbler image, resizing didn't seem to work....


----------



## Covenant

Most Sophia's tend to darken like that between 100-200hrs. That being said, Sophia's do tend to fail early too.


----------



## Carmantom

I have been informed by a reputable tube distributor that the 1940 (ish)
 sylvania 274b rectifier blows away the Sophia Princess.

 Anyone with experience able to comment on that.
 I ave a WA6 SE coming


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most Sophia's tend to darken like that between 100-200hrs. That being said, Sophia's do tend to fail early too._

 

Mines darkened in that time frame but no fail yet.


----------



## K_19

Mine's darkened, but only around the base of the tube. The top and mid part still looks clear enough to me, although admittingly I only use the WA6 on average 3 hrs a day or so (and I've had it since December).


----------



## Covenant

I had my first Sophia fail at 160hrs, which was lucky all things considered as it was still within the warranty. After that I moved to EML rectifiers.


----------



## Elk

I have had the Sophia Princiss for quite some time and had never noticed that it had slowly grown darker before reading this thread. I also did not know about issues using it with older WA6 amps. My amp is one of the earlier WA6 amps and it has never had a problem. Thanks for giving me reason to worry! 

 Here is a pic of my setup. (I wasn't a photography major)


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

For those of you that have orders in for Woo amps, I just got notification that mine will be shipping tomorrow (3/17). It is a stock black WA6 SE, and I placed my order on Thursday, February 25--that's less than 3 weeks, even though I was told it would be the standard 4 weeks.

 Perhaps, as I've read here, the black gets done a a bit faster. I can't wait to get it; I'll be using it with the gear in my signature. I've also ordered and already received the Sophia Princess.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had the Sophia Princiss for quite some time and had never noticed that it had slowly grown darker before reading this thread. I also did not know about issues using it with older WA6 amps. My amp is one of the earlier WA6 amps and it has never had a problem. Thanks for giving me reason to worry! 
_

 

Don't worry. The early 6SE had issues with the Sophia, not the standard 6.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had the Sophia Princiss for quite some time and had never noticed that it had slowly grown darker before reading this thread. I also did not know about issues using it with older WA6 amps. My amp is one of the earlier WA6 amps and it has never had a problem. Thanks for giving me reason to worry! 

 Here is a pic of my setup. (I wasn't a photography major)



_

 

I like that lamp. Where did you get it?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like that lamp. Where did you get it?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes I agree, great lamp; nice touch. Has anyone used a WE 274B?


----------



## WalkGood

I'm sure mine has well over 160 hours on her and she's over a year old now, still no problems and when she's glowing she still looks great, no worries here.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my speakers aren't here yet either so I can't do much yet. I need to order up some cans right quick._

 

I hope you know your ultra high end amp will need over 300 hours of brake-in, so yes get something and start the brake-in.

 ss


----------



## Necrolic

So if I were to buy the WA6, is the Sophia 274B worth the money for the upgrade, or is it going to be more hassle than it's worth? It just makes me a bit nervous with all the reported issues, from fading to actually completely failing.

 How does it change the sound of the WA6?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Necrolic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So if I were to buy the WA6, is the Sophia 274B worth the money for the upgrade, or is it going to be more hassle than it's worth? It just makes me a bit nervous with all the reported issues, from fading to actually completely failing.

 How does it change the sound of the WA6?_

 

If you want to improve your audio then yes the sophia is worth it. You have a tube amp there is always more maintenance than a ss amp. 

 ss


----------



## Necrolic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to improve your audio then yes the sophia is worth it. You have a tube amp there is always more maintenance than a ss amp. 

 ss_

 

Maintenance, sure, but I don't file replacing failed tubes under regular maintenance.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Necrolic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maintenance, sure, but I don't file replacing failed tubes under regular maintenance._

 

Hmmm, if a bad tube isn't maintenance then what is on a tube amp.

 Nobody can tell you if a tube will fail or not, but we can tell you if a tube will help your audio. If your worried about it then just stick with what you have.

 ss


----------



## St3ve

Decided to grab a few different rectifiers for my WA6:

 - Groove tubes 5AR4
 - 'Golden Dragon' 274b
 - Shuguang 274b (pair of)

 None of them are particularly expensive (all sub £35/$55), so I thought I would take a punt. I believe atbglenn's cabinet of tubes and wonder made me feel inadequate haha. 

 I looks like I will have to have to order driver tubes from the states - seems to be where they are at. I will be sure to post some impressions, as and when.


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decided to grab a few different rectifiers for my WA6:

 - Groove tubes 5AR4
 - 'Golden Dragon' 274b
 - Shuguang 274b (pair of)

 None of them are particularly expensive (all sub £35/$55), so I thought I would take a punt. I believe atbglenn's cabinet of tubes and wonder made me feel inadequate haha. 

 I looks like I will have to have to order driver tubes from the states - seems to be where they are at. I will be sure to post some impressions, as and when._

 

Congrat! Would be interested in hearing your impressions on those tubes! Pictures would be nice too!!


----------



## St3ve

Cheers Hifidk, I will share my thoughts on them when they have all turned up and I have spent some time with them - I am quite surprised by how reasonably priced some of the 274b rectifiers are: the shuguangs are on ebay for 30 odd quid a pair. Nice as the sophia, EML etc. rectifiers are - they are pretty serious money per tube. 

 It seems that there are actually quite a few different 5AR4 rectifiers about, as they are used in guitar amps (Mesa boogie, Fender and possibly others).


----------



## KBerube80

Ordered my WA6 + Sophia Rectifier a little over 3 weeks ago. It should be nearing the end.

 Although, now I have my eyes on a Cary Audio SLI-80 integrated to drive my speakers and my phones. If I decide to bite, I will have no need for the WA6.

 Unless someone has any experience between the two?


----------



## Elk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like that lamp. Where did you get it?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. It was a gift. I found no markings on it to identify it so I asked the person I got it from and was told it can be found at Target. Its really an awesome touch lamp!


----------



## debitsohn

what does the stock rect tube look like? i got two and i dont know which one is stock. 
 one is a Tung sol, smaller tube shaped and the other doesnt have a name but it shaped liek a small princess.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what does the stock rect tube look like? i got two and i dont know which one is stock. 
 one is a Tung sol, smaller tube shaped and the other doesnt have a name but it shaped liek a small princess._

 

The rectifier that came stock with my WA6 is simply marked '5Z4G made is USSR'. It came in a blue and yellow box with russian writing on it ('electronorgtechnica' is the only non-cyrillic writing on it that looks like it could be a name). I guess the stock rectifier tube is whatever Jack has in stock.

 Also, a quick question re: a tube I just bought (groove tube 5AR4/GZ34) - It has 5 pins as opposed to the 4 I have seen an all the other rectifiers - is it ok to use in my WA6? It is clearly geared towards guitar amp use, so I am not sure if it is a different type of 5AR4...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what does the stock rect tube look like? i got two and i dont know which one is stock. 
 one is a Tung sol, smaller tube shaped and the other doesnt have a name but it shaped liek a small princess._

 

What comes as stock can vary. Steve seems to have gotten a 5Z4G (GZ30), where as I received a 5AS4 of unknown brand (no markings on the tube whatsoever remain, and it came in a white military box also with no markings). Tung Sols have a reputation for being desirable and dynamic sounding tubes, but it depends upon which type it is. The other tube is an 'ST' shaped tube, the coke bottle style. There are many tubes which use this shape, not just the Princess which is a 274B tube. Often times the same type of tube was made in both the 'ST' and the regular round style.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decided to grab a few different rectifiers for my WA6:

 - Groove tubes 5AR4
 - 'Golden Dragon' 274b
 - Shuguang 274b (pair of)_

 

I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these. I decided to hold off on trying any of these figuring I would go straight for the EML 274b if I wanted a 274b type. I haven't been particularly happy with the rectifiers I have tried so far.

 After asking takezo for advice I believe a Mullard GZ32 is what I need for my K701's, but non-suspicious examples all go for over $100 and if I'm going to spend triple digit I decided I might as well get the EML instead. I have picked up a couple of cheap tubes to get an idea of how they vary in sound, but none of them have right for me so far. 

 The American 5V4Gs I bought were not impressive, thank goodness they were cheap. I am running an RCA 5AS4G right now which is a mixed bag. It doesn't have the sweet midrange tone of the tube Jack sent me (really wish I knew who made it), and instead sounds rather nasal but the bass quality and level of detail is a bit better so it is give and take. I have a nice 5R4GY I nabbed from eBay for a mere $8 coming too but after talking with takezo my hopes are not very high for it.

 If I spend any more on rectifiers I don't like it will have defeated the point of holding off on the EML anyway, so I'm glad to see somebody else is doing some rolling in this area so we have a larger pool of impressions to draw on.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, a quick question re: a tube I just bought (groove tube 5AR4/GZ34) - It has 5 pins as opposed to the 4 I have seen an all the other rectifiers - is it ok to use in my WA6? It is clearly geared towards guitar amp use, so I am not sure if it is a different type of 5AR4..._

 

I think what is most important is staying within the maximum specs for current draw off the transformer, but I'd have to yield to someone with more knowledge/experience on the subject really. My understanding from what I've read is that any 5AR4 should be okay.


----------



## DoingOK

Not sure if it can be done, but I'd like to have some custom wood trim pieces made for my WA6. I have a gentleman making wood trim pieces for my listening room gear (like the ones pictured below) and thought it would look nice on the Woo amplifier. I'm thinking of having the trim piece around the tubes and the transformer cap made. To be honest, I don't even know if those pieces can be removed and how it may or may not affect the warranty. I'll let you know what I find out.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'd think the heat around that area would be a greater concern. Wouldn't it ruin the finish in fairly short order?


----------



## DoingOK

dunno...........my amp doesn't seem to run very hot at all. If it catches fire, I'll cook up some S'mores.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these. I decided to hold off on trying any of these figuring I would go straight for the EML 274b if I wanted a 274b type. I haven't been particularly happy with the rectifiers I have tried so far.

 After asking takezo for advice I believe a Mullard GZ32 is what I need for my K701's, but non-suspicious examples all go for over $100 and if I'm going to spend triple digit I decided I might as well get the EML instead. I have picked up a couple of cheap tubes to get an idea of how they vary in sound, but none of them have right for me so far. 

 The American 5V4Gs I bought were not impressive, thank goodness they were cheap. I am running an RCA 5AS4G right now which is a mixed bag. It doesn't have the sweet midrange tone of the tube Jack sent me (really wish I knew who made it), and instead sounds rather nasal but the bass quality and level of detail is a bit better so it is give and take. I have a nice 5R4GY I nabbed from eBay for a mere $8 coming too but after talking with takezo my hopes are not very high for it.

 If I spend any more on rectifiers I don't like it will have defeated the point of holding off on the EML anyway, so I'm glad to see somebody else is doing some rolling in this area so we have a larger pool of impressions to draw on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I know takezo likes the EML 274B Mesh and I also read what he said about the EML and got one. If it wasn't for the fact that I also had a EML 274B solid plate rectifier, I would have given up on EML and stayed with my Princess or if I didn't have the money just stayed with the rectifier that Jack sent with my WA6SE. The EML 274B Mesh plate rectifier is slow and muddy, bass heavy. I think I have about 150 hours on my EML 274B Mesh and have no plans on using it in my WA6SE anymore. 

 If a EML 5U4G Mesh plate (new redesigned) will work in your Woo then that is the way to go if you are going to spend the money on a EML rectifier.
 I am running a EML 274B solid plate in my WA6SE but they are very hard to find and the closest rectifier I have heard to the solid plate is the new redesigned EML 5U4G Mesh Plate.

 btw I also have a pair of 701s but don't use them, to harsh and shrill for my ears. 

 ss


----------



## Seamaster

TheAudioDude should have better idea after this week about EML mesh/solid plate.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Hey Seamaster, How is the Modded 22 and T1 doin?


----------



## debitsohn

is this a pic of a WA6 with pdps?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/IMG]


----------



## h.rav

^ Yes


----------



## Towert7

I just received shipment of my GES. The thing is drop dead gorgeous in black!

 Now all I need is some headphones that work with it. ^_~


----------



## midoo1990

^^pictures man,we must keep the trend of this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.I should receive my wa6 on Wednesday or thursday.More than a week and I can't listen to my hd650 because I am ampless and d5000 arrived 4 days ago.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Yes_

 

wow lucky me. i was told i was buying one without the pdps!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw I also have a pair of 701s but don't use them, to harsh and shrill for my ears. 

 ss_

 

I share this opinion, but it will take me quite some time to save for something better (thinking T1) and as such they are all I have right now. So I'm trying to find a combination of tubes that tames their high end without turning the sound into a slow muddy mess.

 I'm intrigued by your saying the EML 274B mesh is slow. Detail retrieval is supposed to compare favorably to the princess, but you are saying the dynamics suffer? If the sound is laid back, bass heavy, yet retains good texture detail and vocal tone then it is the sound I'm looking for. I can live with a slower sounding tube, it is the tonality and quality of sound texture I'm interested in first and foremost.

 There is a point where things become too slow, but I don't think the EML would cross that line for me. The only tube combination I thought was downright slow to the point of being unlistenable was my stock 5AS4 (which is slower than the 5AS4G I'm running now) paired with some Raytheon 6EW7s. The 6EW7s simply sucked all the life out of the sound. I can always go to a faster sounding drive tube as well, since speed isn't exactly the forte of the gray plate 6FD7s I'm currently using.


----------



## masterchoi

I received wa6se today.. I'll report it back with pictures later today.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Haha.... I think I'm the only one who never posted pictures. Compared to the nice setups I've seen here I doubt anybody wants to look at my WA6 crammed onto my old computer desk......


----------



## masterchoi

Here is my wa6se that I received today.


----------



## DoingOK

Very nice Masterchoi.


 My WA6 is naked right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having a new top plate, transformer cap and volume knob fabricated out of exotic wood.


----------



## masterchoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA6 is naked right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having a new top plate, transformer cap and volume knob fabricated out of exotic wood._

 

That is awesome. Please show us when you are done.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *masterchoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is my wa6se that I received today._

 

V. nice, congrats - I notice you have a pair of what I like to call 'mind-blowers' plugged in.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 My WA6 is naked right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm having a new top plate, transformer cap and volume knob fabricated out of exotic wood.
_

 

That will be very interesting to see. Perhaps the first cosmetically modified WA6 out there?


----------



## masterchoi

Thank you St3ve.

 Funny thing is that I ordered black to match with dac1 but came as silver and quite match with 'mind-blowers'. I don't know what happened.


----------



## Towert7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^pictures man,we must keep the trend of this thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.I should receive my wa6 on Wednesday or thursday.More than a week and I can't listen to my hd650 because I am ampless and d5000 arrived 4 days ago._

 

Ok, well I just had to snap a few pictures of it.
 I'm not happy with the way they came out. This amp can look much better!
 When the lighting is better, I'm going to try again someday.


----------



## midoo1990

Wow,fantastic Towert,what headphones are you gonna use with it?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Towert7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, well I just had to snap a few pictures of it.
 I'm not happy with the way they came out. This amp can look much better!
 When the lighting is better, I'm going to try again someday._

 

^^^
 OMG!!! Can anyone ever get enough of a Woo? Not me. The best looking black Woo I've seen yet. Its black sheen is just beyond beautiful--like black sable. Thank you for the pix.


----------



## Towert7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow,fantastic Towert,what headphones are you gonna use with it?_

 

At first my Sennheiser HE60. Then I hope to get an Stax O2 and compare them side by side.


----------



## ygm

A favor from the people that have opened their WA22 - what is the rating of the cathode bias resistor? (they are the big gold ones attached to the chassis). 

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A favor from the people that have opened their WA22 - what is the rating of the cathode bias resistor? (they are the big gold ones attached to the chassis). 

 Thanks in advance._

 

I hope that this is what you're seeking. It's the only "big gold ones" I can identify. I know nothing about amp innards.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope that this is what you're seeking. It's the only "big gold ones" I can identify. I know nothing about amp innards._

 

That's the one! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## debitsohn

is it normal that one of the tubes glow way more than the other? does that mean its going out and needs ot be replaced?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/IMG]


----------



## dannie01

Thanks for the pics Towert.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it normal that one of the tubes glow way more than the other? does that mean its going out and needs ot be replaced?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/IMG]_

 


 You have to different (vintage wise, brand?) tubes there. The one for the right channel had more getter flashing on the top which will make the tube look dimmer. Notice the shields are not the same between the two?


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the pics Towert._

 

I second this and all the other pics, great to see


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it normal that one of the tubes glow way more than the other? does that mean its going out and needs ot be replaced]_

 

If they are same brand and "same tube", and tested OK, does not have to match, they should gow evenly. 

 Everyone should invest in a good tube tester before get too deep in to this hobby, just my 0.02


----------



## TheAudioDude

I'm picking up some nasty microphonics with my driver tubes, and I'm about ready to order a pair of HAL-O Ultrasonic RX-40s:

UltraSonic Rx Tube Dampers

 Does anyone have any experience with these on their Woo amps? And, any experience using them with 6F8Gs? My 6F8Gs are about 1/2" away from my rectifier, but it states on the website that the dampers will work with tubes as close as 1/4".


----------



## debitsohn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to different (vintage wise, brand?) tubes there. The one for the right channel had more getter flashing on the top which will make the tube look dimmer. Notice the shields are not the same between the two?_

 

ah. interesting. theyre both GE but hmm. guess something else is different. thanks so much for your insight!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm picking up some nasty microphonics with my driver tubes, and I'm about ready to order a pair of HAL-O Ultrasonic RX-40s:

UltraSonic Rx Tube Dampers

 Does anyone have any experience with these on their Woo amps? And, any experience using them with 6F8Gs? My 6F8Gs are about 1/2" away from my rectifier, but it states on the website that the dampers will work with tubes as close as 1/4"._

 

I have herbbies with my miniture 9 pin tubes, I don't notice any difference, unlike my cheaper amp which made noticeble improvment. But I have them on the tubes anyway.

 You may want got these. They have more grip on the glass.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/guitar.htm

 All my 6F8G (4 different pair) all started with hum and settled down 5~20 hours latter depent on tube. Very quite. I ONLY have problem with Sophia 274B pair with 6F8G. NO PROBLEN with EML, GZ34, 5Z3, and other rectifiers. You may get lemon tubes bro.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have herbbies with my miniture 9 pin tubes, I don't notice any difference, unlike my cheaper amp which made noticeble improvment. But I have them on the tubes anyway.

 You may want got these. They have more grip on the glass.
Guitar Amplifier Tube Dampers

 All my 6F8G (4 different pair) all started with hum and settled down 5~20 hours latter depent on tube. Very quite. I ONLY have problem with Sophia 274B pair with 6F8G. NO PROBLEN with EML, GZ34, 5Z3, and other rectifiers. You may get lemon tubes bro._

 

Yeah, I am starting to think that my TS 6F8Gs aren't in the best condition. My National Unions seem to have no problems in terms of picking up vibrations, but my 6F8Gs are so bad that they pick up noise when I tap on the chassis.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I lifted the front of the amp off my table and the vibration stopped. I'll experiment with foam padding underneath the amp first.


----------



## Groundzero

Just got a email with the tracking info for my WA6SE w/ sophia. I was quoted 3-4 weeks, but it's only been two weeks and two days since I ordered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to joining the club


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got a email with the tracking info for my WA6SE w/ sophia. I was quoted 3-4 weeks, but it's only been two weeks and two days since I ordered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to joining the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations Groundzero. You'll be in for a treat and probably a few more hours of missed sleep each night! But you'll be thoroughly impressed.


----------



## masterchoi

Congratulations Groundzero.

 By the way, what color did you order?


----------



## Groundzero

Thanks Clayton and masterchoi. I ordered a black one. I'll post pics when it arrives


----------



## masterchoi

Awsome!

 I ordered black one but received silver one instead. But it still looks nice so no complain. I was just wondering if someone who ordered silver received black instead. I just found some old classical cds that was purchased from japan and german about 20+ years ago and re-discovering it!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my 6F8Gs are so bad that they pick up noise when I tap on the chassis.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My current driver tubes do this too. Strangely enough pulling them out and reseating them helped a lot, but I was actually getting crackling and static which prompted me to take the action as a troubleshooting step.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ah. interesting. theyre both GE but hmm. guess something else is different. thanks so much for your insight!_

 

They may both be GE but are you certain they are both the same type of tube? It is best to have identical internal construction even if you are running the same tube type for each. The one on the left looks more like a 6CY7 to me. If you look at the large plate from the side can you see the heating mesh exposed?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My current driver tubes do this too. Strangely enough pulling them out and reseating them helped a lot, but I was actually getting crackling and static which prompted me to take the action as a troubleshooting step._

 

I Caig my tube pins, and keep them clean. Don't have too many problems with tubes.


----------



## freedom01

hi everyone.

 WA6 has Frequency response: 20 Hz - 30 KHz, -3dB
 while WA3+ has Frequency response: 8 Hz - 100 KHz -3dB
 and WA6 SE has Frequency response: 15 Hz - 40 KHz, -3dB

 when picking the right amp , does it matters when it has such variations ?

 i'm interested in WA6 , but wondering if there is any significant difference comparing to WA6 SE. Of course , if can save the $ for other stuffs , it would be better.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi everyone.

 WA6 has Frequency response: 20 Hz - 30 KHz, -3dB
 while WA3+ has Frequency response: 8 Hz - 100 KHz -3dB
 and WA6 SE has Frequency response: 15 Hz - 40 KHz, -3dB

 when picking the right amp , does it matters when it has such variations ?

 i'm interested in WA6 , but wondering if there is any significant difference comparing to WA6 SE. Of course , if can save the $ for other stuffs , it would be better._

 

Wow I get more impressed with my 3+ modified more everyday.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys if you guys are looking to upgrade to the 7236 tube, I found a place that sells them for half of what Jack wants.

7236

 I bought one and it is the exact same tube, but about half of what he wants.


----------



## Zombie_X

OOPS DOUBLE POST


----------



## rich.no

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zombie_X* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys if you guys are looking to upgrade to the 7236 tube, I found a place that sells them for half of what Jack wants.

7236

 I bought one and it is the exact same tube, but about half of what he wants._

 

A heads-up for WA2 owners: thetubestore charges a $10 service fee per tube for matching, so the total cost is approx. $96 + shipping. Still cheaper than Jack's $120, though.

 Richard


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi everyone.

 WA6 has Frequency response: 20 Hz - 30 KHz, -3dB
 while WA3+ has Frequency response: 8 Hz - 100 KHz -3dB
 and WA6 SE has Frequency response: 15 Hz - 40 KHz, -3dB

 when picking the right amp , does it matters when it has such variations ?

 i'm interested in WA6 , but wondering if there is any significant difference comparing to WA6 SE. Of course , if can save the $ for other stuffs , it would be better._

 

Those specs are not so important, given the limits of human hearing. 

 Far more important is the design of the power supply and added power of the WA6 SE.


----------



## jc9394

Question to HD800 owners with WA6.

 What tube you find is the best combo for HD800. Currently I'm using Sophia with Sylvania 6FD7 and I'm very happy with the combo but wonder if any others tube is better.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question to HD800 owners with WA6.

 What tube you find is the best combo for HD800. Currently I'm using Sophia with Sylvania 6FD7 and I'm very happy with the combo but wonder if any others tube is better._

 

This is also the combo I use in the WA6SE but the 6FD7s are branded GE to drive the HD800, nothing I can say but awesome. Sorry for not helping to answer your question.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Hmmmm, I wonder what could be in these newly arrived crates


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is also the combo I use in the WA6SE but the 6FD7s are branded GE to drive the HD800, nothing I can say but awesome. Sorry for not helping to answer your question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you fixed you WA6SE to use 6FD7? I thought Jack does not recommend to use it on the SE version. 

 It helps, I usually can't tell the difference between the brands.


----------



## freedom01

the sound quality step up from WA6 to WA6 SE , is it a lot ?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the sound quality step up from WA6 to WA6 SE , is it a lot ?_

 

Yes, according to Jack when I asked him last year. I went for the WA6 simply of space issue.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm, I wonder what could be in these newly arrived crates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

Music haven


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Music haven_

 

Yeah, I've been waiting for this amp for 5 weeks and now the boxes are by my side. The only problem is that I'm stuck at work all day and am forced to stare at these crates until after work....what torture!!!


----------



## WalkGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm, I wonder what could be in these newly arrived crates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

More shiny handles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No seriously where are the unpacking pics …

 Edit: ic


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I Caig my tube pins, and keep them clean. Don't have too many problems with tubes._

 

You mean deoxit? I do this too. It's just this one set of tubes, so the problem likely lies with them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I've been waiting for this amp for 5 weeks and now the boxes are by my side. The only problem is that I'm stuck at work all day and am forced to stare at these crates until after work....what torture!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

5 weeks! I just got my WA2 after waiting for 5 weeks as well. I am using it as a preamp though. Does anyone know how many people actually help in the building of his amps. It can't be just one person or can it?

 I hope you're having some of your buddies help you haul those prized crates home. It reminds me of Raiders of the Lost Ark--crates.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5 weeks! I just got my WA2 after waiting for 5 weeks as well. I am using it as a preamp though. Does anyone know how many people actually help in the building of his amps. It can't be just one person or can it?

 I hope you're having some of your buddies help you haul those prized crates home. It reminds me of Raiders of the Lost Ark--crates._

 

You mean like one of these props from the movie? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure they are built just as well too!! These are made of really thick plywood that can probably withstand an explosion or smthing!


----------



## himynameis

WoooW What's in that crate? I would make some suppositions based on the swastika but they wouldn't be very cuser


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WoooW What's in that crate? I would make some suppositions based on the swastika but they wouldn't be very cuser 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Indiana Jones reference.


----------



## himynameis

Oh, so that's the movie he was refering to... I really must catch up with the movies then. Too much music


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I've been waiting for this amp for 5 weeks and now the boxes are by my side. The only problem is that I'm stuck at work all day and am forced to stare at these crates until after work....what torture!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well look at the bright side, at least you have them. 

 Got my shipping notice today from the shipper, 3 boxes 105lbs. 

 If you looked at the unpacking pictures Jack sent, you start to realize how big the PSU and Amp are.

 ss


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WoooW What's in that crate? I would make some suppositions based on the swastika but they wouldn't be very cuser 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I believe it's the ark of the covenant


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you fixed you WA6SE to use 6FD7? I thought Jack does not recommend to use it on the SE version. 

 It helps, I usually can't tell the difference between the brands._

 

Yeah, for the cathode caps, I've replaced the original 470 uf/ 100V by 2 x 220uf/ 160V NH (Super E'ed) and it just works fine when the 6FD7 drawing the higher current than other output tubes. I've never heard any distortion or cracking sound at all till now for months ago when the 6FD7s are in use.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have some hours on my RCA 5R4GY and the result was initial intrigue followed by mild disappointment. It sounded promising at first, with a smooth rolled off high end that suited my tastes well. I had to give up a considerable amount of punch and weight in the bass department compared to the 5AS4G I was using, but the control and speed was still there so I didn't mind so much. In exchange the soundstage grew considerably, mostly to the sides, and the air between notes literally doubled if not more so. Good things in my book. Unfortunately the tube didn't retain its smooth treble after break-in, and sounds a bit bright and peaky now. Exactly as takezo warned me it would sound, but for a measly $8 I certainly didn't feel bad finding out for myself.

 For the moment I'm kind of torn about which rectifier to use between what I have on hand. The stock tube is the smoothest and keeps listening fatigue at bay, but its bass control is quite poor and just gives up too much detail. The 5AS4G sounds nice and balanced and its treble is still pulled in enough that it doesn't bother me. It is also a nicely detailed tube, but the soundstage isn't impressive and vocals don't sound natural but rather a bit colored and nasal. I really like the big soundstage of the 5R4GY but the moment I hit a recording that isn't laid back sounding I get that mild burning sensation in my ears that drove me away from the SS amp...... the sting of too much treble. 

 Reading back what I just wrote it'll have to be the 5AS4G. The nasal vocals take some of the satisfaction out of the music, but after hearing it I can't go back to the stock tube. It just gives up too much detail retrieval and makes me want to check my earcups for cotton balls.

 Time to save up for that EML it seems, though I'm hoping some other users post some promising and affordable rectifier rolling impressions I can explore in the meantime.


----------



## monsieurguzel

As promised here are some unboxing pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like the interior of the Amp portion has been updated from the previous versions that I've seen on head-fi. Enjoy!

 Without any burn in, i'm already super impressed by the capabilities of this amp and it already way outshines my WA6SE in openness and with amazing midtones and bass!!

 Setup: PS Audio Power Plant Premier > Macbook Pro > 24-Bit Apple Lossless > Pure Vinyl > Perfectwave DAC > Woo Audio 5 (Premium Upgrades + Teflon sockets upgrade) > HD800


----------



## BIG POPPA

Wow, cool set up. Congratulations. Enjoy!


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe it's the ark of the covenant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have an ark?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, for the cathode caps, I've replaced the original 470 uf/ 100V by 2 x 220uf/ 160V NH (Super E'ed) and it just works fine when the 6FD7 drawing the higher current than other output tubes._

 

Man, I wish I'd got that done with my old WA6SE. The 6FD7 tubes were really the ticket.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Without any burn in, i'm already super impressed by the capabilities of this amp and it already way outshines my WA6SE in openness and with amazing midtones and bass!!_

 

Congrats, that is one sexy setup. Are you actually using vinyl, or digital from your Macbook into the Perfectwave?

 You'll have to post impressions of the WA5LE Vs the WA6SE once it's burned in, as well. I don't think anyone's directly compared the two yet


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congrats monsieur, those are some really great pics. Here I thought my WA6 looked like a serious piece of gear when I unboxed it, but its nothing compared to that!


----------



## DarKu

Congrats monsieurguzel , it's an work of art !
 It's my dream amp, but I don't know if I can afford one of those soon...probably when I get older


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As promised here are some unboxing pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like the interior of the Amp portion has been updated from the previous versions that I've seen on head-fi. Enjoy!

 Without any burn in, i'm already super impressed by the capabilities of this amp and it already way outshines my WA6SE in openness and with amazing midtones and bass!!

 Setup: PS Audio Power Plant Premier > Macbook Pro > 24-Bit Apple Lossless > Pure Vinyl > Perfectwave DAC > Woo Audio 5 (Premium Upgrades + Teflon sockets upgrade) > HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

Thanks for your post, you really are fast.

 I am very happy to read your first impression. 

 Seeing you got the WA5 that may be the reason for the change. As you may know I got the poor man version of the WA5 (WA5LE) coming. So It will be interesting to see what changes there are in the WA5LE from your WA5. However I did get the parts upgrade and the Teflon tube sockets so it should be close to yours except for the pot.

 btw, not only do I have the WA6SE and the HD-800s but I also have a PS Audio Power Plant Premier.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## dannie01

Wow, congrats monsieurguzel, the amp and the psu is real big and the pics also wonderful, drooling.


----------



## midoo1990

Incredible pics,really great setup.I will be interested in your comparisons vs wa6se also.Enjoy.


----------



## WalkGood

Monsieurguzel great pics, thanks for sharing, congrats & enjoy!

 BTW your dog in the second pic looks bummed that they’re not boxes of bones


----------



## Modena

I'm giong to need some great cans for my WA5 with premium parts. Your recommendations are greatly appreciated. Cost isn't a major factor, but like to always consider cost to incremental benefit, if you know what I mean. 

 Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, I wish I'd got that done with my old WA6SE. The 6FD7 tubes were really the ticket._

 

Frankly, you don't have to make it done anymore, the *ARK* is on the way to your home.


----------



## dannie01

monsieurguzel, for the pics you took, I can see a XLR plug in the left hand side in the face plate of the output unit, what is it for? The WA5 now with 4 pins balanced out or.........................?

 Edit: My bad, I miss read your amp is WA5 not LE. That XLR is for K1000, but I have another question. The K1000 is connected in 4 pins XLR for left and right drivers, is it mean the WA5 is balanced output to drive the K1000?


----------



## DarKu

It's for AKG K1000, that it is a K1000 connector (4pin XLR)
 WA5LE doesn't have that


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's for AKG K1000, that it is a K1000 connector (4pin XLR)
 WA5LE doesn't have that_

 

Hey Vitalii, congrats on the purchase of the WA6SE. Yeah, my mistake and just checked that on the Woo Audio website.

 And I have to state that again *SERIOUSLY*. Head-Fi is really a devil place to visit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just sold my WA6SE and ordered a WA22 from Woo Audio and my wallet is now bleeding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Need to search in Seamaster's thread for tubes advise and seems my wallet will keep bleeding in a short time.


----------



## Modena

I'm giong to need some great cans for my WA5 with premium parts. Your recommendations are greatly appreciated. Cost isn't a major factor, but like to always consider cost to incremental benefit, if you know what I mean. 

 Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Thank you everybody for all the complements on my new setup...I'm very excited for it to settle in with time and eventually get tube upgrades (so that I waste nice tubes on the burn-in stage). So far it really sounds magical after listening to the setup a few hours last night. I don't know if it was helped by my new DAC and the Power Regenerator, but the backgrounds were so black and I had moments when the music would totally envelope me and forget I was listening to headphones. I listened to the MFSL Beck Sea Change album most of the night and everything was extremely dynamic and I wasn't really left wanting more of anything. To me the HD800s have beautiful synergy and in no way did I feel I was lacking bass at any point! The mids were so lush and there was so much air in the music that it made me think all the hard earned money was actually worth it. I'm wondering how much better it can possibly get with better tubes and upgraded cables!!!

 I will let everybody know how things change over time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats, that is one sexy setup. Are you actually using vinyl, or digital from your Macbook into the Perfectwave?_

 

As of right now, my dac is connected to my macbook pro as a temporary solution until the PS Audio Bridge comes out, which will turn my DAC into a high end music server. As for the vinyl, the VPI scoutmaster is connected to a PS Audio GCPH phono pre-amp and into the WA5. I really love this pre-amp since it is so neutral and extremely silent/black, that it lets the other equipment I use dictate the sound of the music.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your post, you really are fast.

 I am very happy to read your first impression. 

 Seeing you got the WA5 that may be the reason for the change. As you may know I got the poor man version of the WA5 (WA5LE) coming. So It will be interesting to see what changes there are in the WA5LE from your WA5. However I did get the parts upgrade and the Teflon tube sockets so it should be close to yours except for the pot.

 btw, not only do I have the WA6SE and the HD-800s but I also have a PS Audio Power Plant Premier.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss_

 


 I wouldn't call your WA5 LE a poor man's WA5 in any way, especially with all those custom upgrades you are doing to yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was going to get the LE, but decided I wanted the flexibility of running speakers to the amp, which could justify the high cost of the WA5. I am planning on eventually getting a pair of Zu Essense (97dB) speakers which are high efficiency and should run beautiful with the 300B tubes.

 That is funny you also have very similar equipment as I have! You will definately be in for a treat upgrading from WA6SE to WA5 on the HD800s, a big step in my opinion. I actually sold my WA6SE once I bought the WA5, so I won't be able to do a direct comparison to the two, but since owning that amp for 1.5 years I am extremely familiar with the sound of the amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WalkGood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Monsieurguzel great pics, thanks for sharing, congrats & enjoy!

 BTW your dog in the second pic looks bummed that they’re not boxes of bones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Yes, the dog was really bummed that I was spending so much time on my equipment vs. playing with her that evening


----------



## freedom01

i have read a lot of pages from this thread but still could not decide on which rectifier plan to get.

 EML 5U4G Mesh
 EML 274B Mesh
 Sophia 

 I kept reading disturbing information about the short life span of the Sophia(although a few head-fiers' Sophia is working fine after 1year).

 Among the 3 candidates , which would be most bang for the bucks ?


----------



## sampson_smith

I would imagine that the majority would say Sophia Princess, as that is where most end up, even though it is most expensive.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would imagine that the majority would say Sophia Princess, as that is where most end up, even though it is most expensive._

 

Not exactly, the EML 5U4G and 274B cost even higher than Sophia.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have read a lot of pages from this thread but still could not decide on which rectifier plan to get.

 EML 5U4G Mesh
 EML 274B Mesh
 Sophia 

 I kept reading disturbing information about the short life span of the Sophia(although a few head-fiers' Sophia is working fine after 1year).

 Among the 3 candidates , which would be most bang for the bucks ?_

 

Really depends on what type of music you listen to, I find Sophia is very good with vocal and classical while EML 5U5G Mesh is better for rock. It seems like EML 5U4G Mesh have more punch and dynamic, while Sophia is more laid back.


----------



## monsieurguzel

I had amazing experience with the Sophia Princess on a WA6SE and would completely disregard what anybody is saying about them being defective. I have only heard great things about those rectifiers and having owned one, I can tell you that they are built with the utmost precision and craft. There are a ton of WA6 / WA6SE owners on head fi using Sophia Princess and you really rarely hear anything but praise for those rectifiers. It is also the least expensive of of the 3 you are mentioning and is easiest to get a hold of.


----------



## jc9394

The replacement I received has been great, no complaint so far. I bought the EML 5U4G Mesh the day after I send mines back and did not even think it will get replaced.


----------



## VicMackey

Congrats for the WA5LE! Fantastic piece of amp! Are those Shuguang rectifiers you got with your amp?


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats for the WA5LE! Fantastic piece of amp! Are those Shuguang rectifiers you got with your amp?_

 

No, I'm not very familiar with what brand the rectifier is....if I remember correctly, they are Dumont? Rectifiers made in the U.S.

 The amp also came with Shuguang 300B tubes (made in China) and General Electric 6SNGT Driver tubes (Made in U.S.). All in all I am quite satisfied with the choice of tubes that Jack sent with the amp and seem to be better than the previous Russian stock tubes he would ship out.

 On a side note, I am very happy that I bought the upgraded teflon tube sockets. They make a very big difference when you switch out the tubes and grip them extremely wells compared to the standard ceramic ones I had with my previous WA6SE.


----------



## freedom01

alright i guess i settle for sophia. Thanks for the help guys.

 by the way , between 6DE7 and 6FD7 , which would be a better bet if i like transparent , clean and with some bass(need not thunderous kind) ?


----------



## jc9394

Get 6EW7...


----------



## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Vitalii, congrats on the purchase of the WA6SE._

 

I dunno what you are smoking but i want to try that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have WA6SE for 6 months now allready 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 however i wanted so bad the premium parts upgrade, that's why i was interested in your WA6SE maxxed, looking forward to your WA22 impresions vs WA6SE maxxed


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dunno what you are smoking but i want to try that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Care to share???


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me the HD800s have beautiful synergy and in no way did I feel I was lacking bass at any point! The mids were so lush and there was so much air in the music that it made me think all the hard earned money was actually worth it. I'm wondering how much better it can possibly get with better tubes and upgraded cables!!!

 I will let everybody know how things change over time._

 

I liked the WA5 at CanJam 2009 with my HD800 more than I did with my K1000. My HD800 were there in the Woo/TTVJ room as the demo 4-pin XLR pair. I brought the K1000 with me. It just seemed to need more power with my K1000, but so does my 8 watt ZDT.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_alright i guess i settle for sophia. Thanks for the help guys.

 by the way , between 6DE7 and 6FD7 , which would be a better bet if i like transparent , clean and with some bass(need not thunderous kind) ?




_

 

Between the two the 6DE7 has the faster, tighter bass. The 6FD7 sounds more punchy but the control isn't as good. The actual quantity of bass is really the same if you ask me. I don't know why so many people think the 6DF7 is a bassy tube, as it's just a change in character in how the bass is being presented and not an actual increase in loudness of the bass frequencies. Keep in mind the differences extend far beyond that, with the 6FD7 offering a very noticeably larger soundstage and better air between notes, but more polite dynamics and softer transients.

 As for the rectifiers I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the three. I have been trying to decide between EML and Sophia myself and the consensus seems to be the EML 274B is a bit more laid back sounding in the treble with better texture detail retrieval compared to the Princess, but recently people have been recommending the newly redesigned EML 5U4G Mesh over both. I haven't gotten anybody to really explain why to me yet though.


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not exactly, the EML 5U4G and 274B cost even higher than Sophia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Really? My bad for assuming otherwise. Sorry 'bout that, sirs!


----------



## Modena

Setup: PS Audio Power Plant Premier > Macbook Pro > 24-Bit Apple Lossless > Pure Vinyl > Perfectwave DAC > Woo Audio 5 (Premium Upgrades + Teflon sockets upgrade) > HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











 Nice DAC.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Setup: PS Audio Power Plant Premier > Macbook Pro > 24-Bit Apple Lossless > Pure Vinyl > Perfectwave DAC > Woo Audio 5 (Premium Upgrades + Teflon sockets upgrade) > HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Nice DAC._

 

Yes, I'd like to get that DAC some day. I have the PWT and am loving it. It's in silver as well to match my WA22. The Power Plant Premier is arriving on March 30.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I received my WA6SE (black, stock) yesterday, and set it up last night. I had already ordered and received the Sophia Princess, so I started out with that. The other tubes that came with the amp were an RCA 5AS4A rectifier, and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s. 

 I'm using it with a 15 year old Sony CA9ES CD changer, and a DACMagic, along with my Grado RS1i phones; they have the larger G cups. 

 The sound is fantastic; clean, lush, just complete (not the best adjectives, perhaps, but what I'm getting from this setup so far). Grados plugged into the low jack, volume between 9 and 10. Excellent.

 Two questions I've not found the answers to, even though I've read through the entire thread:

 First, neither the Sophia or the Sylvania tubes glow very much, even in the dark. Everything sounds fine, but some of the photos I've seen here show a much more pronounced glowing effect than what I have. The Sophia's plates are completely dark; only the triangular wires that meet at the top of the plate glow faintly. The Sylvania pair have a tiny glowing dot at the top, and are otherwise dark also. (I'll try to post some photos later). Is this a problem? Otherwise, the tubes seem properly seated and working perfectly.

 Second, I'm interested in getting some heavier feet for the amp, possibly the Mapleshade threaded brass footers; does anyone know offhand what the thread size of the screws on the WA6SE's feet are? (These, of course, are the upgraded feet that are now stock). The Mapleshade threaded feet are available in 1/4x20, 3/8x16, or the M6x1 size. 

 Having this setup has taken headphone listening to a new level; I'm rediscovering a lot of old CDs I haven't listened to for quite awhile. It's good that I work at home, and can usually set my own hours . . .


----------



## Carmantom

I got the delightful email from Jack. Tracking number and shipping tomorrow for my WA6 SE. I'm still undecided about the Sophia Princess. It would have to make an outstanding difference to me to get.

 Any thoughts on using HD 600(s). My main interest besides the usual, in very dynamic bass. Low bass is not important, speedy with punch is. Any ideas?

 I have RCA 6 EW7 fat bottles, a pair of WH 6EW7 Tungsol 6dE7 RCA 6EW7 Fat Bottle Slvania 6DE7


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dunno what you are smoking but i want to try that too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have WA6SE for 6 months now allready 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 however i wanted so bad the premium parts upgrade, that's why i was interested in your WA6SE maxxed, looking forward to your WA22 impresions vs WA6SE maxxed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Care to share???_

 

My bad, sorry about that. I forgot you've mentioned you owned a WA6SE and wanna to have a maxxed one.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you everybody for all the complements on my new setup...I'm very excited for it to settle in with time and eventually get tube upgrades (so that I waste nice tubes on the burn-in stage). So far it really sounds magical after listening to the setup a few hours last night. I don't know if it was helped by my new DAC and the Power Regenerator, but the backgrounds were so black and I had moments when the music would totally envelope me and forget I was listening to headphones. I listened to the MFSL Beck Sea Change album most of the night and everything was extremely dynamic and I wasn't really left wanting more of anything. To me the HD800s have beautiful synergy and in no way did I feel I was lacking bass at any point! The mids were so lush and there was so much air in the music that it made me think all the hard earned money was actually worth it. I'm wondering how much better it can possibly get with better tubes and upgraded cables!!!

 I will let everybody know how things change over time.

 I wouldn't call your WA5 LE a poor man's WA5 in any way, especially with all those custom upgrades you are doing to yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was going to get the LE, but decided I wanted the flexibility of running speakers to the amp, which could justify the high cost of the WA5. I am planning on eventually getting a pair of Zu Essense (97dB) speakers which are high efficiency and should run beautiful with the 300B tubes.

 That is funny you also have very similar equipment as I have! You will definately be in for a treat upgrading from WA6SE to WA5 on the HD800s, a big step in my opinion. I actually sold my WA6SE once I bought the WA5, so I won't be able to do a direct comparison to the two, but since owning that amp for 1.5 years I am extremely familiar with the sound of the amp.

 Yes, the dog was really bummed that I was spending so much time on my equipment vs. playing with her that evening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well you have me rethinking my break-in, so now I will try the WA5 LE in my front line and give my WA6SE a rest. 

 I really like the Cardas Cable for my HD-800s, that cable has really opened up my HD-800s on all levels once I got a couple hundred hours on the cable. 

 I use Black Sand Violet V1 power cord's (1m) on my source player and my WA6SE along with a pair of Audioquest - King Cobra Interconnect cables(1m), and a Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord for my Power Conditioner along with a high grade wall socket. 

 I keep my chain to a minimum using a Oppo BD83SE Nuforce Edition (8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip by stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels) as my source and DAC, connected to my Amp by my interconnects and at the shortest distance possible (1m). 

 Yes you are right, I have no need for the speaker outs in the WA5. I have a 7.1 sound system also in my man cave, but rarely use it.

 Yes your poor dog looked a little left out, but very cute.

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the delightful email from Jack. Tracking number and shipping tomorrow for my WA6 SE. I'm still undecided about the Sophia Princess. It would have to make an outstanding difference to me to get.

 Any thoughts on using HD 600(s). My main interest besides the usual, in very dynamic bass. Low bass is not important, speedy with punch is. Any ideas?

 I have RCA 6 EW7 fat bottles, a pair of WH 6EW7 Tungsol 6dE7 RCA 6EW7 Fat Bottle Slvania 6DE7_

 

Congrats,

 I don't think anybody can really tell you what is the best way to go for tubes, you have to hear for yourself. 
 As far as you power/drive tubes go, I stayed with the fat bottle 6EW7 because I don't think anybody has had a problem with the 6EW7s. I know Covenant used a different tube that was not meant for the WA6SE and nearly killed his WA6SE, and I suspect that is why he doesn't have that amp anymore. 

 I have tried most of the 6EW7s and for what you want I think you will find the RCA to be the best.

 ss


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the delightful email from Jack. Tracking number and shipping tomorrow for my WA6 SE. I'm still undecided about the Sophia Princess. It would have to make an outstanding difference to me to get.

 Any thoughts on using HD 600(s). My main interest besides the usual, in very dynamic bass. Low bass is not important, speedy with punch is. Any ideas?_

 

With the HD600's my runaway favourite was the Sylvania 6FD7s. However the 6SE doesn't support them electrically and needs to be modified to work with them. Out of the stock tubes, the Raytheon 6EW7s were my all-round favourite, but for a bit of extra punch the RCA 6DE7s might be your ticket.


----------



## sillysally

See next post


----------



## sillysally

Didn't care for the Raytheon 6EW7s, probably the same tube as the GE 6EW7s, to much background noise in both for my HD650 (Cardas Cable) . Also didn't care for the RCA 6DE7s to bright. 
 After the mess you had with the 6FD7s I never did try any 6FD7s. 

 However the bottom line here is what rectifier tube you are pairing any of these tubes with. 

 ss


----------



## Towert7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My main interest besides the usual, in very dynamic bass. Low bass is not important, speedy with punch is. Any ideas?_

 

SS?


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Setup: PS Audio Power Plant Premier > Macbook Pro > 24-Bit Apple Lossless > Pure Vinyl > Perfectwave DAC > Woo Audio 5 (Premium Upgrades + Teflon sockets upgrade) > HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...

 Nice DAC._

 

What sort of headphones are you running on that awesome setup, Modena?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampson_smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What sort of headphones are you running on that awesome setup, Modena?_

 

He did say "HD800"


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the HD600's my runaway favourite was the Sylvania 6FD7s. However the 6SE doesn't support them electrically and needs to be modified to work with them. Out of the stock tubes, the Raytheon 6EW7s were my all-round favourite, but for a bit of extra punch the RCA 6DE7s might be your ticket._

 

Yes... the Sylvania 6FD7's are some of the best sounding tubes I have with my WA6 SEM... though... it required no modifications to run them safely. Jack recommended the 6FD7's... and they are great - sort of a combination between the 6EW7's and 6DE7's sound. There should be no problem running them.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Well, I have a problem with my new WA6SE. It's been sounding fantastic, but I noticed yesterday that after turning it on, only the left channel had sound; after a minute or two, the right channel would crackle and pop a few times, then the sound would kick in. After that initial hiccup, everything was fine, and I could listen for hours.

 Today, the same thing happened, so I checked all other equipment, cables, etc., and narrowed it down to the amp itself. Reversing cables would not cause the opposite channel to go dead; no matter what I did, left channel was fine, right channel dead, and crackling. 

 So I tried switching the tubes around; and now, the right channel is completely dead; I have tried both inputs with the same result. I'm going to try cleaning the pins on the tubes, as I've read here; does anyone else have any suggestions, or will I have to contact Woo Audio, and send this in?

 Thanks for any suggestions anyone might have.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

UPDATE: Cleaned the pins, replaced the tubes the way they originally were. At first, same problem; right channel dead. I walked away and let it play for a few minutes; when I returned, both channels are now working, but the right is at a lower volume, and there is a faint hum in the right channel only.

 The hum does not increase in volume if I pause the music and turn the volume all the the way up; but it is there if I use either the high or low impedance jacks. Identical behavior with different phones, too.

 Upon restarting everything, the right channel will be dead, and after awhile, may be 15-20 minutes, it will start to work at a lower volume.

 Could this be some sort of grounding issue? I have the amp, my CD source and my DAC all plugged into a power strip/surge protector, and the indicators show that power, grounding, etc., is all good.

 Any ideas?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes... the Sylvania 6FD7's are some of the best sounding tubes I have with my WA6 SEM... though... it required no modifications to run them safely. Jack recommended the 6FD7's... and they are great - sort of a combination between the 6EW7's and 6DE7's sound. There should be no problem running them._

 

There definitely is problems, with my old 6SE anyway. I'm not sure if current production 6SE's have had the mod incorporated quietly. Mine would regularly crack and pop, and did so with any 6FD7 tube I tried. I contacted Jack about it and he discovered the 6SE is electrically incompatible with those tubes, due to a few components not being rated for a high enough voltage methinks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 So I tried switching the tubes around; and now, the right channel is completely dead; I have tried both inputs with the same result. I'm going to try cleaning the pins on the tubes, as I've read here; does anyone else have any suggestions, or will I have to contact Woo Audio, and send this in?

 Thanks for any suggestions anyone might have._

 

By 'switching the tubes around', did you swap your drive tubes, so that the L and R tubes were reversed? That's the first thing I would try, to see if the problem in the right channel moves with the tube.

 If you have a second set of drive tubes to try, I'd give them a shot too. But contacting Jack for advice is a good idea, he usually replies fairly quickly.


----------



## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I have a problem with my new WA6SE. It's been sounding fantastic, but I noticed yesterday that after turning it on, only the left channel had sound; after a minute or two, the right channel would crackle and pop a few times, then the sound would kick in. After that initial hiccup, everything was fine, and I could listen for hours.

 Today, the same thing happened, so I checked all other equipment, cables, etc., and narrowed it down to the amp itself. Reversing cables would not cause the opposite channel to go dead; no matter what I did, left channel was fine, right channel dead, and crackling. 

 So I tried switching the tubes around; and now, the right channel is completely dead; I have tried both inputs with the same result. I'm going to try cleaning the pins on the tubes, as I've read here; does anyone else have any suggestions, or will I have to contact Woo Audio, and send this in?

 Thanks for any suggestions anyone might have._

 

This is ok for a tube amp, everyone around here with a Woo amps have this. Tubes and the rectifier need to be warmed the first minute, also the amp has a slow start. That's a normal behavior, after tubes are warming up sound becomes normal, without pops or clicks. It is best to leave your amp on for 5-10 min, and after that just listen, this is how i do.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

By 'switching the tubes around' said:
			
		

> Yes, I swapped the drive tubes and the problem did not switch channels. However, I have discovered what it is, and it's not good. A yellow liquid was dripping out from underneath the amp section, through the grating.
> 
> I removed the bottom cover and discovered the problem: One of the five caps on the board in the center had opened up on its top (pointed downwards, of course, since everything is mounted that way); it looks like it sort of 'exploded' and released this fluid--it's sprayed all over the inside of the bottom cover. (My amp is stock; no black gates). I guess I will have to email Jack and send it in.
> 
> Well, it sounded fantastic for a day and a half.


----------



## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I swapped the drive tubes and the problem did not switch channels. However, I have discovered what it is, and it's not good. A yellow liquid was dripping out from underneath the amp section, through the grating.

 I removed the bottom cover and discovered the problem: One of the five caps on the board in the center had opened up on its top (pointed downwards, of course, since everything is mounted that way); it looks like it sort of 'exploded' and released this fluid--it's sprayed all over the inside of the bottom cover. (My amp is stock; no black gates). I guess I will have to email Jack and send it in. 

 Well, it sounded fantastic for a day and a half._

 

It doesnt sound too good, contact Jack he will help you out with this if you amp is still in waranty. I hope everything will be just fine


----------



## Modena

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I'd like to get that DAC some day. I have the PWT and am loving it. It's in silver as well to match my WA22. The Power Plant Premier is arriving on March 30.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is there a new one coming out?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesnt sound too good, contact Jack he will help you out with this if you amp is still in waranty. I hope everything will be just fine_

 

I just emailed Jack; I hope he responds quickly--I am leaving town for a week this Saturday, and it would be perfect if I could get this shipped out to him before I leave.

 Has anyone had a problem like this before? Does Woo Audio send a return authorization number? It's certainly a warranty issue, since I only had the amp for 2 days.

 Maybe all of you who are waiting for new amps could put your orders on hold so he can repair mine quickly . . .


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I removed the bottom cover and discovered the problem: One of the five caps on the board in the center had opened up on its top (pointed downwards, of course, since everything is mounted that way); it looks like it sort of 'exploded' and released this fluid--it's sprayed all over the inside of the bottom cover. (My amp is stock; no black gates). I guess I will have to email Jack and send it in._

 

Ack, yeah that's a blown cap alright. Damn. Send it back to Jack and he'll sort you out.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just emailed Jack; I hope he responds quickly--I am leaving town for a week this Saturday, and it would be perfect if I could get this shipped out to him before I leave.

 Has anyone had a problem like this before? Does Woo Audio send a return authorization number? It's certainly a warranty issue, since I only had the amp for 2 days.

 Maybe all of you who are waiting for new amps could put your orders on hold so he can repair mine quickly . . .
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I sent mine back shortly after I got it because there was a very noticeable hum. No RMA or anything. I just packed it up in the original box and sent it back via USPS.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent mine back shortly after I got it because there was a very noticeable hum. No RMA or anything. I just packed it up in the original box and sent it back via USPS._

 

Did you wait to hear back from him first, or just sent it out? If I don't hear from him in a day or two maybe I can just send it with a note about what happened?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ack, yeah that's a blown cap alright. Damn. Send it back to Jack and he'll sort you out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How in the world does a brand new cap get blown?


----------



## Groundzero

Instead of a typical picture of the amp, I thought I might get a little creative 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I used only the light from the Sophia in a pitch black room. Oh and I'm in love with the amp


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How in the world does a brand new cap get blown?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No idea, unless he used one rated for a much lower voltage by mistake. But if the top of the cap is opened and its leaking acid... it's blown.


----------



## jc9394

Does any one notice that it is little louder after warm up? Or it is me?


----------



## masterchoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of a typical picture of the amp, I thought I might get a little creative 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very nice! Enjoy your amp!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No idea, unless he used one rated for a much lower voltage by mistake. But if the top of the cap is opened and its leaking acid... it's blown._

 

The tops of all of the caps have lines etched in them; on the blown one, it's split open right on those lines. 

 I guess it's good that everything is mounted upside down; when the fluid leaked out, it didn't really get on any other parts--just the inside of the bottom cover. I'll try and post a picture tomorrow before I pack it up.


----------



## masterchoi

Sorry to hear that your amp is having such a problem.. I really hope problem resolve ASAP!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No idea, unless he used one rated for a much lower voltage by mistake. But if the top of the cap is opened and its leaking acid... it's blown._

 

Here are some pics; definitely blown. You can see some of the fluid on the adjacent cap in a couple of the photos.


----------



## Seamaster

Yeah, those that cap is done for. You should replace them asap.


----------



## freedom01

any WA6 owners upgraded the stock caps ?

 is it essential ? does it increase the longevity of the caps by any means ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is ok for a tube amp, everyone around here with a Woo amps have this. Tubes and the rectifier need to be warmed the first minute, also the amp has a slow start. That's a normal behavior, after tubes are warming up sound becomes normal, without pops or clicks. It is best to leave your amp on for 5-10 min, and after that just listen, this is how i do._

 

My experience has been better than that at least. I've tried more than a dozen pairs of tubes and rectifiers, often beginning to listen within 10 seconds of turning the amp on and I have never heard a single pop or crackle from any of them outside of a pair of 6CY7s, and this happened an hour in too. The stock tubes are annoyingly microphonic though, where as none of my other tubes are at all which is a shame because the stock tubes have emerged as a favorite of mine so far as tone is concerned.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The tops of all of the caps have lines etched in them; on the blown one, it's split open right on those lines._

 

They are designed to vent in that way in case something goes wrong, that way they only leak electrolyte (this is what leaked out) instead of potentially exploding. It is anybody's guess what happened, but the cap could have just been defective or possibly a lower value cap was used by mistake.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ So far it really sounds magical after listening to the setup a few hours last night. I don't know if it was helped by my new DAC and the Power Regenerator, but the backgrounds were so black and I had moments when the music would totally envelope me and forget I was listening to headphones. I listened to the MFSL Beck Sea Change album most of the night and everything was extremely dynamic and I wasn't really left wanting more of anything. To me the HD800s have beautiful synergy and in no way did I feel I was lacking bass at any point! The mids were so lush and there was so much air in the music that it made me think all the hard earned money was actually worth it. I'm wondering how much better it can possibly get with better tubes and upgraded cables!!!

 I will let everybody know how things change over time._

 

I have been using my WA5 LE for about 3 hours now, my new Treasure 300Bs, Treasure CV181-Zs and EML 5U4Gs Mesh are installed.

 I agree with everything you have said about the sound, I would also add the speed, detail and precision is also amazing. 

 This Amp is really something. 

 From what I could tell most of the parts look the same as your WA5 just some have been moved because of the long rod you have to switch modes. 

 The bottom panel of the amp has been modified to fit my Alps RK50 very well done, both for fit and finish. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm giong to need some great cans for my WA5 with premium parts. Your recommendations are greatly appreciated. Cost isn't a major factor, but like to always consider cost to incremental benefit, if you know what I mean. 

 Thanks in advance for your help._

 

I really like my HD-800s with my new WA5 LE, in a few days I will try my D7000s.

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been using my WA5 LE for about 3 hours now, my new Treasure 300Bs, Treasure CV181-Zs and EML 5U4Gs Mesh are installed.

 I agree with everything you have said about the sound, I would also add the speed, detail and precision is also amazing. 

 This Amp is really something. 

 From what I could tell all the parts look the same as your WA5 just some have been moved because of the long rod you have to switch modes. 

 The bottom panel of the amp has been modified to fit my Alps AK50 very well done, both for fit and finish. 

 ss_

 

Congrats on the new toy arrived. Even we've seen already but will always ask for, pics pics pics pics.........................please, especially the sexy RK50.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on the new toy arrived. Even we've seen already but will always ask for, pics pics pics pics.........................please, especially the sexy RK50. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok I am a little excited and you are right RK50.

 I had the wife take pictures so when she takes them off her camera I will post. 


 ss


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like my HD-800s with my new WA5 LE, in a few days I will try my D7000s.

 ss_

 

Please don't. Or at least take your time before trying the D7000's, I can't afford to add the WA5LE on my wish list right now. This will be torture!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like my HD-800s with my new WA5 LE, in a few days I will try my D7000s.

 ss_

 

Grats..


----------



## monsieurguzel

Congrats on the new amp sillysally, its really a treat to the ears!! I am trying to figure out what tubes to buy for my amp and it is really killing me trying to figure this all out. I know I want the EML 5U4G Rectifiers, but am debating between EML 300B-Mesh Tubes and the Shuguang 300B-Z Treasures. As for the 6SN7s, I'm debating between some really good NOS or the CV-181Z....too many choices


----------



## midoo1990

My wa6 arrived in my country 3 days ago but it is still not delivered!I hope it is not the stupid customs that are holding it.I guess it will be here on Saturday or sunday.


----------



## Modena

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like my HD-800s with my new WA5 LE, in a few days I will try my D7000s.

 ss_

 

thx Reading good things about them.


----------



## Modena

Thoughts on these to speakers for my WA5. 

 Todem Arro or Zu Druid Mark IV

 My office, so space is a premium.


----------



## monsieurguzel

The Todem Arro are only 87 dB, so i'm not sure they will be powered properly from a WA5 amp. The Zu Druids on the other hand are about 102dB /watt.

 If you have extra money though, I hear the Zu Essence speakers are quite the upgrade from the Druids!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I got an email reply from Jack concerning my WA6SE with the blown cap. It is, of course, under warranty, so I will be shipping it off tomorrow morning. At least this will coincide with my spring break trip to Las Vegas. The amp will be gone for at least a week, but so will I.

 He did ask, though, if the tubes were installed properly. They were, of course; I don't see how they could not be. They can only be inserted one way, unless there have been previous instances of problems occurring if they are not pushed all the way down.

 After Vegas, I am scheduled for hernia surgery, so hopefully I will have the amp back to help me through my recovery period . . .


----------



## Modena

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Todem Arro are only 87 dB, so i'm not sure they will be powered properly from a WA5 amp. The Zu Druids on the other hand are about 102dB /watt.

 If you have extra money though, I hear the Zu Essence speakers are quite the upgrade from the Druids!_

 

Yeah, I've just received information to pass on the Todems, efficiency is surely a concern. Onto the Essence to check out. Thank you.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My wa6 arrived in my country 3 days ago but it is still not delivered!I hope it is not the stupid customs that are holding it.I guess it will be here on Saturday or sunday._

 

Ya customs is probably having a ball with your new WA6.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been using my WA5 LE for about 3 hours now, my new Treasure 300Bs, Treasure CV181-Zs and EML 5U4Gs Mesh are installed._

 

Congrats sillysally. Enjoy it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Going off memory the Alps RK50 is a motorized pot for remote control isn't it? Do you sit a ways away from your amp usually?


----------



## sillysally

Pictures of my WA5 LE.

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats sillysally. Enjoy it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Going off memory the Alps RK50 is a motorized pot for remote control isn't it? Do you sit a ways away from your amp usually?_

 

Yes you can motorize the RK50, but I didn't want to do that. So no my Alps RK50 is not motorized. 

 ss


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pictures of my WA5 LE.

 ss_

 


 Beautiful amp. best of luck!


----------



## freedom01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any WA6 owners upgraded the stock caps ?

 is it essential ? does it increase the longevity of the caps by any means ?_

 

anyone?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pictures of my WA5 LE.

 ss_

 


 Drooling, this would be my next target. Thanks for the great pics with the sexy RK50, ss.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone?_

 


 Mine is stock and I have no desire to upgrade the caps. It sounds great the way it is...


----------



## sillysally

Thanks guys for all your kind words.

 Question, with the WA5/LE are the slats on the bottom panel towards the front of both the Amp and PSU???

 Thanks,

 ss


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys for all your kind words.

 Question, with the WA5/LE are the slats on the bottom panel towards the front of both the Amp and PSU???

 Thanks,

 ss_

 

Towards the front so that there is air intake ventilation under the tubes


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Towards the front so that there is air intake ventilation under the tubes_

 

Thanks, that was my guess. 

 My tubes/amp are starting to loosen up a little bit. Because of owning a WA6SE I think I have a good idea where my WA5/LE is going. And its going in the direction I was hoping, but still can't image.

 Three hours off, 8 hours on. 

 Not knocking RSA B-52 that I tried out at Rays house, but for my likes my WA5LE has already surpassed Ray's personal B-52 with his very hard to get tubes.

 ss


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As promised here are some unboxing pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like the interior of the Amp portion has been updated from the previous versions that I've seen on head-fi. Enjoy!

 Without any burn in, i'm already super impressed by the capabilities of this amp and it already way outshines my WA6SE in openness and with amazing midtones and bass!!

 Setup: PS Audio Power Plant Premier > Macbook Pro > 24-Bit Apple Lossless > Pure Vinyl > Perfectwave DAC > Woo Audio 5 (Premium Upgrades + Teflon sockets upgrade) > HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	

















_

 

Not alarm you but I noticed one of your small gold caps looks like it's leaking Electrolyte. It even stained the bottom plate. I would definitely take a close look if I were you


----------



## midoo1990

^^ya,i also wondered of this stain when i saw that pictured but i thought it is manufacturing imperfection.it seems like the one of the 4 small caps has a stain on it.


----------



## freedom01

monsieur's set is new right ?

 if it is a cap leaking , something must be wrong with their QC.

 any cause of concern ?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_monsieur's set is new right ?

 if it is a cap leaking , something must be wrong with their QC.

 any cause of concern ?_

 

It would be a good idea on Woo's part to remove the bottom plate after burn in to make sure nothing like this happens. It's probably just a defective cap.. And yes, it is a concern.


----------



## monsieurguzel

[size=10pt]Thanks for the heads up everybody. I actually noticed this a day after I took the picture and contacted Jack. The problem was that one of the voltage filtering caps (a $2 part) needs replaced. He is sending me a new one to replace it...quick and easy fix. As for the stain, it actually wipes right off.

 I opened up the amp yesterday and very thoroughly checked out all the solder connections / build quality and found that everything other than that defective cap was very immaculate and perfectly built. If I hadn't opened it up, I probably wouldn't have noticed that there was a problem since the amp sounds perfectly fine (no hum or anything).[/size]


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the heads up everybody. I actually noticed this a day after I took the picture and contacted Jack. The problem was that one of the voltage filtering caps (a $2 part) needs replaced. He is sending me a new one to replace it...quick and easy fix. As for the stain, it actually wipes right off._

 

Make sure it was installed correctly (polarity wise) from the start. Very Important!!


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pictures of my WA5 LE.

 ss_

 

SS - Beautiful amp. Are those tubes actually touching each other?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the heads up everybody. I actually noticed this a day after I took the picture and contacted Jack. The problem was that one of the voltage filtering caps (a $2 part) needs replaced. He is sending me a new one to replace it...quick and easy fix. As for the stain, it actually wipes right off.

 I opened up the amp yesterday and very thoroughly checked out all the solder connections / build quality and found that everything other than that defective cap was very immaculate and perfectly built. If I hadn't opened it up, I probably wouldn't have noticed that there was a problem since the amp sounds perfectly fine (no hum or anything)._

 

Exactly the same thing that happened to my WA6SE. But then the hum started, and the right channel went dead. Looks like the same type of cap, too, although a different amp. Maybe they have a bad batch of this type of cap. Mine was just built within the last 2-3 weeks. I've sent it in to be repaired.


----------



## freedom01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly the same thing that happened to my WA6SE. But then the hum started, and the right channel went dead. Looks like the same type of cap, too, although a different amp. Maybe they have a bad batch of this type of cap. Mine was just built within the last 2-3 weeks. I've sent it in to be repaired._

 

did you remember what kind of cap is that? 
 a normal cap ? or upgraded cap ?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freedom01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did you remember what kind of cap is that? 
 a normal cap ? or upgraded cap ?_

 

A normal cap; not sure of the rating or size, but I ordered my WA6SE entirely stock, except for the Princess tube.


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly the same thing that happened to my WA6SE. But then the hum started, and the right channel went dead. Looks like the same type of cap, too, although a different amp. Maybe they have a bad batch of this type of cap. Mine was just built within the last 2-3 weeks. I've sent it in to be repaired._

 

Wow, I'll have to check my WA6SE too this weekend. It was built around the same time frame as yours.


----------



## Modena

My apologies for taking so long to get these up, but I have been busy, sick and very occupied. 

 I wanted to stress how impressive it was dealing with Jack. It simply is not possible to receive better service than what Jack provides. He helped me before, during and after the order. You don't find this level of service with anything anymore, and it's refreshing to see someone care so much about their product, customers and their needs. 

 If you are considering a Woo, I would like to provide you with a strong sense of comfort in this acquisition. It's more than an amplifier, it's a work of art. 

 Thank all of you for your assistance, patience and guidance in my purchase.

 If you're reading this Jack, thanks for sharing your labor of love.


----------



## dannie01

It's a piece of art and thanks for the pics, Modena. I'm now really struggling to change my WA22 order to this monster........................


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Modena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to stress how impressive it was dealing with Jack. It simply is not possible to receive better service than what Jack provides. He helped me before, during and after the order. You don't find this level of service with anything anymore, and it's refreshing to see someone care so much about their product, customers and their needs. 

 If you are considering a Woo, I would like to provide you with a strong sense of comfort in this acquisition. It's more than an amplifier, it's a work of art. 

 Thank all of you for your assistance, patience and guidance in my purchase.

 If you're reading this Jack, thanks for sharing your labor of love. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree with you 110%, Jack and family are the best. 
 And I am glad i took his advice about my new Woo. 

 Thanks for sharing you thoughts and pictures. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SS - Beautiful amp. Are those tubes actually touching each other?_

 

No there not but they are very close, and as Jack had told others there is NP with the Treasure's being that close. And the nice thing about these tubes are that they are balanced and the stickers you see are telling my to put them in the R or L channel.

 ss


----------



## Carmantom

It seems I've read that one can use this tube in a WA6 SE without any modification. On the other hand I have heard you can't. Can someone please clarify for me?

 Thanks Tom


----------



## monsieurguzel

I heard that you can only use the 6FD7 tubes on the standard WA6, not the SE. And I don't recommend going down the 6FD7 tube road....there's an insane amount of choice and the better ones cost a fortune (think $150-300 for a pair)


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I heard that you can only use the 6FD7 tubes on the standard WA6, not the SE. And I don't recommend going down the 6FD7 tube road....there's an insane amount of choice and the better ones cost a fortune (think $150-300 for a pair)_

 

???

 6FD7 tubes are around $3-5 dollars pretty much everywhere, regardless of vintage or brand. The best pair of 6FD7 tubes I have cost me $20 w/matching and they are the best vintage you can find. Perhaps you are mistaking them for something else such as the 6SN7? One of the nice things about the WA6 and SE are how cheap the drive tubes are.


----------



## Modena

I was hoping to get some direction on speakers for my WA5. I am considering the Zu Essence speakers. Is there anything else you would recommend given the power and efficiency rating. Your opinion is important to me. 

 I came across these, very efficient and well rated. 

Stereophile: Sonist Concerto 3 loudspeaker

 Thanks~


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems I've read that one can use this tube in a WA6 SE without any modification. On the other hand I have heard you can't. Can someone please clarify for me?

 Thanks Tom_

 

To clarify... if Jack has advised you not to use them, or risk damaging your amp... I would not use them.

 He told me about 18 months ago that the 6FD7s were compatible (as I best recall). More recently he has advised me that they have greater gain that does not permit much volume adjustment, and that they might damage the amp, over "long periods of time," suggesting it would be better not to use them. However, he did not indicate they would damage the amp over short periods of time. I'm trying to obtain further clarification from him.

 I've used them quite a lot over the intervening period with absolutely no issues, of any kind. I run them at about 9-10 O'clock for about 2 hrs per session, though I let them idle 24x2 over the weekend. They sound so much better, that I really want to continue to use them, if they can be used safely for short sessions (e.g. <3 hrs, or so). 

 If necessary, I'll likely mod the amp to be able to use them - they're that good, compared to the others - though the 6EW7's are close. The 6CY7's also seem to have a similar gain as the 6FD7's. And... they (6FD7's) are not expensive - about $15 to $20 per pair, or sometimes less.

 UPDATE: Jack did clarify... that... I should not use the 6FD7s, until the amp is modified to accept their higher gain without risking damage to the caps. He said... there was no way to determine how long you could safely use them without damaging the caps - best to just avoid them, until the caps were changed.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 6CY7's also seem to have a similar gain as the 6FD7's._

 

Both the 6CY7 and the 6DR7 are higher gain like the 6FD7. I was not impressed at all with the 6CY7 personally.... it sounds like the 6DE7's dumb cousin honestly with a loose sloppy sound and a U shaped freq curve. I haven't tried a 6DR7 but others have said it is close to the 6DE7 with just a little flavor of the 6FD7's bigger sound added in.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Haha, ooops must have been half asleep when I wrote my last post. I thought you were talking about 6SN7 tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My bad...


----------



## Carmantom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To clarify... if Jack has advised you not to use them, or risk damaging your amp... I would not use them.

 He told me about 18 months ago that the 6FD7s were compatible (as I best recall). More recently he has advised me that they have greater gain that does not permit much volume adjustment, and that they might damage the amp, over "long periods of time," suggesting it would be better not to use them. However, he did not indicate they would damage the amp over short periods of time. I'm trying to obtain further clarification from him.

 I've used them quite a lot over the intervening period with absolutely no issues, of any kind. I run them at about 9-10 O'clock for about 2 hrs per session, though I let them idle 24x2 over the weekend. They sound so much better, that I really want to continue to use them, if they can be used safely for short sessions (e.g. <3 hrs, or so). 

 If necessary, I'll likely mod the amp to be able to use them - they're that good, compared to the others - though the 6EW7's are close. The 6CY7's also seem to have a similar gain as the 6FD7's. And... they (6FD7's) are not expensive - about $15 to $20 per pair, or sometimes less._

 

I just received an email from Jack re: this tube

 Tom,

 "6FD7 should not be used on the 6SE unless we modify the amp. It may damage
 the amp".

 Jack


----------



## Carmantom

Got one DOA. It's like losing both. I wanted badly to roll these. Any one have a high opinion of these?

 Seems a tube as inexpensive as this isn't worth sending back for replacement. Maybe someone has one here they don't need?


----------



## jc9394

WA22 owners, does this amp take SE input and output to balanced or SE only?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WA22 owners, does this amp take SE input and output to balanced or SE only?_

 

It'll take an SE input and output to balanced, but you should really have a balanced input to take full advantage of the amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

When I tried the prototype WA22, using SE input didn't sound as spacious and well separated as it did using balanced input, regardless of which output you used. Has that changed with the production WA22?


----------



## jc9394

Man, I was hoping I can keep my gamma2. This hobby really a money pit. Oh well, time to sell gamma2 to fund Grace M902B or Lavry DA11.


----------



## midoo1990

So,I called the post office an hour ago to see why my package wasn't delivered till now and they told me it has been hanging in the customs since last Tuesday and asked me to call them.I am trying to reach them but with no luck.

 I knew something like this will happen,maybe they don't have a clue what the package is.I think I am the first one in Cairo Egypt to get a tube amp.
 I am thinking of going to them at the airport to see what's going on.

 Dammit,why this have to happen to me!!!


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dammit,why this have to happen to me!!!_

 



 Customs and excise; Irritating people the world over since the dawn of cross-border trade.

 Best of luck with sorting it all out.


----------



## midoo1990

I just hope the tubes are bot broken or tossed around,especially Sophia princess.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just hope the tubes are bot broken or tossed around,especially Sophia princess._

 

Jack packaged mine very well - whopping gurt block of foam with separate cut-out sections in the middle for the amp and the Sophia. I am sure that yours will be packaged similarly.

 Fingers crossed bud.


----------



## VicMackey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just hope the tubes are bot broken or tossed around,especially Sophia princess._

 

Don't worry. Jack's amps are very well packaged. Mine was sent overseas too. It took 10 Days, but the amp arrived in perfect conditions.


----------



## sillysally

Wow my WA5LE just shifted gears, I now have about 55 hours on my amp.

 I guess Jack has updated the WA5/LE, the bass is outstanding with my HD-800s. Not at all what I have read about the older WA5LE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow my WA5LE just shifted gears, I now have about 55 hours on my amp.

 I guess Jack has updated the WA5/LE, the bass is outstanding with my HD-800s. Not at all what I have read about the older WA5LE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss_

 

Wondering you're too happy with the new amp so for the judged with this outstanding bass statement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy the new toy and let us know more how the new WA5LE strong in bass than what was heard, thanks.


----------



## Carmantom

I currently am running a Yulong DAC 1 MK2 w/ my new WA6 SE.
 I was wondering what kinds of dacs others were using that they felt had good synergy.
 I am not afraid to move up to the $700-$800 area used if it not dry or analytical as I have found the Benchmarch to be.


----------



## midoo1990

Yes,I want to know too what's dacs are you all using with wa6,I want to get one in the $400-500 region and have great synergy with it,what do you suggest?


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes,I want to know too what's dacs are you all using with wa6,I want to get one in the $400-500 region and have great synergy with it,what do you suggest?_

 

I have paired my WA6 with an Audio-gd DAC19, and they go really nice together. Check my blog for my impressions of the match-up.


----------



## Modena

Will a ten foot, high-quality cable fun affect my WA5's sound much? Thoughts appreciated.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems I've read that one can use this tube in a WA6 SE without any modification. On the other hand I have heard you can't. Can someone please clarify for me?

 Thanks Tom_

 

if it's possible, can you find out what rating the cathode caps being used in your
 new amp unit is? it should be something like 470 uf/ 100 volts.

 it's the pair found on the plastic board like this:


----------



## Carmantom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if it's possible, can you find out what rating the cathode caps being used in your
 new amp unit is? it should be something like 470 uf/ 100 volts.

 it's the pair found on the plastic board like this:




_

 

Jack already sent me an email and said not to use.


----------



## Carmantom

I have tried rolling many different sets of driver tubes with the stock rectifier. I hate to admit contrary to a lot of the people here I am not dazzled with what I am hearing. I am running a Squeezbox Duet -- Yulong MarkII Dac -- Woo WA6 SE -- Cardas Cable -- Sennheiser HD600 and I'm not feeling (hearing) the love. If I get the Sophia Princess will it impact the sound with different rolling of tubes noticeably?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently am running a Yulong DAC 1 MK2 w/ my new WA6 SE.
 I was wondering what kinds of dacs others were using that they felt had good synergy.
 I am not afraid to move up to the $700-$800 area used if it not dry or analytical as I have found the Benchmarch to be._

 

The Monarchy M24 Tube DAC, the Cal Audio Alpha Tube DAC, and the Marantz SA8001 CDP are all truly great sources with my WA6 SE Maxed - none are dry, cold and analytical, but are warm and rich, yet still have great detail and clarity. 

 Teamed with the WA6 SE Maxed - they're all great! I have no idea how they might mate with the stock WA6 SE - but, they all get great reviews.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently am running a Yulong DAC 1 MK2 w/ my new WA6 SE.
 I was wondering what kinds of dacs others were using that they felt had good synergy.
 I am not afraid to move up to the $700-$800 area used if it not dry or analytical as I have found the Benchmarch to be._

 

I use a Channel Islands VDA-2 with my WA6, a combination I find satisfying. The VDA2 has been around a few years now (upgraded once though) and is still regarded as one of if not the best at it's price point. Dusty Vawter once asserted that, while he feels it is tops within its price bracket, he felt that the DAC would not embarrass itself regardless of what it was compared to no matter the price. It takes a lot of confidence to say something that gutsy about a product.

 As for synergy I think this is less important with DACs than with other components. The thing you might want to pay attention to is output voltage. On the VDA2 for example it is 2.25V single ended or 4.5V balanced. Some DACs have a stronger output and often times you will see a weaker one (2.0V is quite common). How much it affects perceivable SQ I'm not certain (my gut says not much if at all), but if you have an amp with unusually low or high gain you can keep any eye out for a DAC whose voltage output complements the amp well to result in a good usable volume range with a wide variety of headphones.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried rolling many different sets of driver tubes with the stock rectifier. I hate to admit contrary to a lot of the people here I am not dazzled with what I am hearing. I am running a Squeezbox Duet -- Yulong MarkII Dac -- Woo WA6 SE -- Cardas Cable -- Sennheiser HD600 and I'm not feeling (hearing) the love. If I get the Sophia Princess will it impact the sound with different rolling of tubes noticeably?_

 

Yep, the rectifier can change the character of the drive tubes noticeably. I went back and re-auditioned all my tubes after settling on a 5R4 tube to replace the stock one (the trebled settled nicely with break-in contrary to my previous post on this), and I'm hearing considerably different results than I did before. The tubes I liked the best with the stock rectifier don't sound the same with this 5R4, and depressingly enough the stock drive tubes are what sounds the best right now. They are the ONLY tubes I have which suffer from microphonics problems so I'm hoping the Zenith tubes I'm running right now settle some more and end up sounding similar so I can use them instead.

 So the moral is each time you change rectifiers you might want to try the drive tubes you have on hand. They might surprise you.

 I haven't heard a Sophia so I don't want to talk as though I know, but everybody says the improvement is quite dramatic. I'm sure this depends upon what rectifier you were switching from. I found a very pleasing improvement in soundstage, detail and control going from the 5AS4 to my current 5R4GY. My gut tells me that from here going to the Sophia wouldn't be a terribly dramatic improvement anymore.

 One other thing is to make sure you are giving the tubes enough time to break in properly. Many of my tubes did not sound very good at first. They all seem to follow a certain pattern: a darker sound that is muted and a bit veiled, followed by a longish phase where they sound brighter but kind of harsh and lacking the liquid sound tubes are known for. Then they finally settle and end up sounding both relaxed and very detailed.


----------



## DarKu

To all EML users: do you feel the EML 5U4G Mesh and EML 274B Mesh tubes have a little better bass extension and impact compared to 274B Mesh Sophia Princess ? I'm loving RCA 6EW7 drive tubes and would like a little more bass impact...will EML's help me with that ?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To all EML users: do you feel the EML 5U4G Mesh and EML 274B Mesh tubes have a little better bass extension and impact compared to 274B Mesh Sophia Princess ? I'm loving RCA 6EW7 drive tubes and would like a little more bass impact...will EML's help me with that ?_

 

The ELM 274B mesh will give you the most bass, however it is slow and muddy. The better tube imo is the EML 5U4G mesh, a little less bass and soundstage but much faster and more impact on everything. Just a much better tube.
 I also use RCA 6EW7 BB, silver top, tip, circa 1963. imo the best combo.

 ss


----------



## DarKu

Thank you ss, waiting patiently for more WA5LE Vs. WA6SE impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 After burn-in maybe you would kindly review it (WA5LE)


----------



## monsieurguzel

So I wanted to update everyone with a few pics of my new tubes that just arrived. I got a pair of EML 300B Mesh as well as a pair of EML 5U4G Rectifiers. Also on their way are some Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7W and Ken-Rad JAN-CKR-6SN7GT drivers which I'm excited to try out.





















 So I haven't had enough time to give a very thorough evaluation since I just popped them in and listened for a couple hours. I have to say that my jaw dropped a few times! Listening to a few albums such as Beck Sea Change MFSL, Steely Dan Aja (Vinyl Remaster), Diana Krall Look of Love (Vinyl), and Supertramp Crime of the Century (Vinyl). The amp consistently drove the HD800s beautifully with so much bass and so much clarity / air to the music that it was totally involving. The current setup definitely starts to break the feeling that I'm listening to headphones and brings you so very close to the music!

 P.S., the blown Cap has also been replaced


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I wanted to update everyone with a few pics of my new tubes that just arrived. I got a pair of EML 300B Mesh as well as a pair of EML 5U4G Rectifiers. Also on their way are some Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7W and Ken-Rad JAN-CKR-6SN7GT drivers which I'm excited to try out.


 So I haven't had enough time to give a very thorough evaluation since I just popped them in and listened for a couple hours. I have to say that my jaw dropped a few times! Listening to a few albums such as Beck Sea Change MFSL, Steely Dan Aja (Vinyl Remaster), Diana Krall Look of Love (Vinyl), and Supertramp Crime of the Century (Vinyl). The amp consistently drove the HD800s beautifully with so much bass and so much clarity / air to the music that it was totally involving. The current setup definitely starts to break the feeling that I'm listening to headphones and brings you so very close to the music!

 P.S., the blown Cap has also been replaced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very nice, now all you need is a Cardas cable to go with those HD-800s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you have to ues your Amps attenuators to adjust noise level for your new tubes?

 ss


----------



## DarKu

*Drooling* ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Best tube amp + best tubes, i like your style.


----------



## DarKu

double post, forum is acting strangely lately....


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice, now all you need is a Cardas cable to go with those HD-800s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Did you have to ues your Amps attenuators to adjust noise level for your new tubes?

 ss_

 

Thanks a lot! As for the cable I ended up ordering a DHC Complement clone cable for the HD800s since I've heard nothing but praise for that cable. 

 And no, didn't have touch the attenuators on the amp. The tubes are meant to be drop in replacements with the same specs so I'm not sure why I would need to adjust the attenuators. 

 AA


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot! As for the cable I ended up ordering a DHC Complement clone cable for the HD800s since I've heard nothing but praise for that cable. 

 And no, didn't have touch the attenuators on the amp. The tubes are meant to be drop in replacements with the same specs so I'm not sure why I would need to adjust the attenuators. 

 AA_

 

 I was wondering what those potentiometers were. I thought they might have been bias adjustments. BTW, gorgeous amp! Best of luck with it


----------



## midoo1990

lol.
 so finally the people that work in customs answered me and i told them about my problem and that my package has been sitting there for a week.

 she asked me what the package contained,and i told her an amplifier.
 And as i expected,she was clueless what that is.she told me"ehhhh..ehhh,anyway,any package that is held in customs should be picked up by you in the airport!"
 i wanted to laugh but i hold myself and told here that i will pick it up on Thursday.

 i knew that the package would be held in customs,just as i knew that i am literally the first person in cairo to import a tube amp.The description on the package is written"vaccum tubes headphone amplifier" ,what else to elaborate?
 sadly i cant go tomorrow to the airport because i am busy in university so i will go on Thursday.


----------



## VicMackey

Anybody knows where I can get a pair of RCA 6DE7? *NOT* looking for the fatbottles, but for de skinny ones. I think they exist, right? Seem to be very rare...


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody knows where I can get a pair of RCA 6DE7? *NOT* looking for the fatbottles, but for de skinny ones. I think they exist, right? Seem to be very rare..._

 

Do they made a fat bottle 6DE7? I never see one before.


----------



## VicMackey

Not sure, but I thought I've seen some. Anyway, if they do not exist, forget what I said. But still looking for the RCAs... I might ask Jack.


----------



## jc9394

I know the 6EW7 and 6FD7 are fat bottle and all my 6DE7 are small/thin bottle one. If you can find a fat bottle 6DE7, please let me know.


----------



## dannie01

I bought a pair through Ebay sometimes ago and you'll find it occasionally.


----------



## atbglenn

My 6DE7's are all thin bottle types. I don't think they make any fat bottle versions.


----------



## VicMackey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 6DE7's are all thin bottle types. I don't think they make any fat bottle versions._

 

All 6DE7 or just the ones from RCA?


----------



## jc9394

I have both RCA and Sylvania one and both are thin bottle.

 EDIT:

 From tubeworld, no mention of fat bottle.

 6DE7
 - Woo Audio WA6SE (2008-present)

 6DE7 NOS: SKINNY BOTTLE


----------



## VicMackey

That means, that all the 6DE7 (RCA, Sylvania etc.) are thin bottle compared to the 6EW7 from Raytheon? That's the tubes I have in my WA6SE. 

 Thank you very much for the information. The sylvanias would be an option too. seems to be easier to find.


----------



## himynameis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Monarchy M24 Tube DAC, the Cal Audio Alpha Tube DAC, and the Marantz SA8001 CDP are all truly great sources with my WA6 SE Maxed - none are dry, cold and analytical, but are warm and rich, yet still have great detail and clarity. 

 Teamed with the WA6 SE Maxed - they're all great! I have no idea how they might mate with the stock WA6 SE - but, they all get great reviews._

 


 Did you ever get the chance to compare M24 to Havana with the WA6SE maxxed?

 Also, I saw in your signature that you had HD650 with aftermarket cables several times, but eventually you let them go. Why is that? Did the AD2000 have smth to do with it?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you ever get the chance to compare M24 to Havana on the WA6SE?

 Also, I saw in yous signature that you had HD650 with aftermarket cables several times, but eventually you let them go. Why is that? Did the AD2000 have smth to do with it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 RE: the Havana - no, I've never tried one. Though, they do look interesting. I'm very pleased with the M24... and... all of my DAC/CDP's - they all get great reviews, even compared to the $17,000 Reimyo.

 RE: the HD650's - no, I sold my "old" version, because it was too "dark, and veiled"... and... I returned my "new" version, because it sounded identical... that's identical... to my "new" version of the HD580's Modified (HD600 screens, and upgraded cable). I kept the after-market cable I liked best - the RAL Cryo-Silver cable. I like both my HD580's, and the "new" version of the HD650's. With the WA6 SEM and my sources... they sound about as good... or... maybe even a "wee bit" better than my other phones - "too close to call." 

 The AD2000's do sound superb, though - in all respects.

 Actually, all my phones sound very similar, with very minor differences. I just can't decide, which I really prefer... though... I do listen to the HD580's more than the others.


----------



## midoo1990

^^i agree with you man.my d5000 and hd650 have almost the same identical sound with slight defferences.I am not sure anymore if I am willing to spend more money on headphones when all what I get is slighlty different sound.I got the d5000 based on the wood and it's beautiful look only but I mainly prefer hd650 for the relaxed sound.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicMackey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All 6DE7 or just the ones from RCA?_

 

I have RCA, Sylvania, Westinghouse, and GE thin bottle 6DE7's. I've never seen a fat bottle version.

 I have fat bottle 6EW7 and 6FD7's. All Sylvania..


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I wanted to update everyone with a few pics of my new tubes that just arrived. I got a pair of EML 300B Mesh as well as a pair of EML 5U4G Rectifiers. Also on their way are some Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7W and Ken-Rad JAN-CKR-6SN7GT drivers which I'm excited to try out._

 

Gorgeous pictures there. It's a bit of a shame that none of the logos on the EML tubes ended up facing forward though.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gorgeous pictures there. It's a bit of a shame that none of the logos on the EML tubes ended up facing forward though._

 

Yeah, for some odd reason, all the WA5 amps are designed such that the 300B tubes face backwards and the 5U4G tubes face diagonal. The 6SN7 tubes face towards each other, meaning that the labels are opposite.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, for some odd reason, all the WA5 amps are designed such that the 300B tubes face backwards and the 5U4G tubes face diagonal. The 6SN7 tubes face towards each other, meaning that the labels are opposite._

 

could be worse - Woo could focus more on the cosmetic factor of labels forward, and thereby use inferior signal paths


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, for some odd reason, all the WA5 amps are designed such that the 300B tubes face backwards and the 5U4G tubes face diagonal. The 6SN7 tubes face towards each other, meaning that the labels are opposite._

 

The 5R4GY I'm using right now faces perfectly forward, both label and plates, but it was the first out of all the rectifiers I rolled. It's the best one out of what I have though so.... small favors I suppose. 

 Interestingly enough the only pair of drive tubes whose labels face straight forward are also the best ones I have, but I'm saving those to pair with my future EML tube (which probably will face to the side unfortunately). 

 I guess I just love symmetry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But when the rest of the amp is so beautiful I think one can't help but notice when the tubes seem like they are not lined up despite the fact that it really doesn't matter at all. I know I've heard of at least one person specifically asking Jack to align the tube socket so that a particular tube would face forward. It's really impressive he honors requests like this.


----------



## dannie01

I've ask Jack to align the tube sockets of my WA22, make all tube logos face forward but with replied below:

*"To align the tube label to the front compromise sound quality as it defeat the purpose of shortest path wiring. I do not recommend this approach and hope you understand."*

 So I keep the original setting as advised.


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's good info to know. Sound before cosmetics makes perfect sense afterall.


----------



## dannie01

That's also what I thought to make the decision not to re-align those tube sockets.


----------



## koven

amazing setup monsieurguzel

 how do you like your perfectwave? what did you upgrade from?


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_amazing setup monsieurguzel

 how do you like your perfectwave? what did you upgrade from?_

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I recently purchased the Perfectwave DAC about a month ago as an upgrade from the Digital Link III (stage IV), and an apogee Duet before that. One of the big reasons for purchasing the PWD is the upcomming bridge for it, which is basically a slot in card which turns the DAC into a full on music server which reads any music (Apple Lossless, Flac, etc) up to 24/192khz through Ethernet or Wireless and can be controlled through an iPod/iPad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately its still in beta stages so won't be out for another month or two, so until then its connected to my MBP through USB. But generally speaking I'm super pleased with the performance of this DAC. It is pretty huge in size (close to WA5 amp in size), but is beautifully finished with laquered black wood on top. As for sonic performance, its definately no slouch and I can feel the improved dynamics, resolution and spatial awareness of the music compared to the DLIII. But as I mentioned earlier, this DAC will perform way better through the Bridge, which uses I2S and gets rids of any jitter / clocking issues and has higher bitrate capabilities. Here is a neat video explaining it all: http://www.youtube.com/v/QKm6zDAb7G4&autoplay=1


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I recently purchased the Perfectwave DAC about a month ago as an upgrade from the Digital Link III (stage IV), and an apogee Duet before that. One of the big reasons for purchasing the PWD is the upcomming bridge for it, which is basically a slot in card which turns the DAC into a full on music server which reads any music (Apple Lossless, Flac, etc) up to 24/192khz through Ethernet or Wireless and can be controlled through an iPod/iPad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately its still in beta stages so won't be out for another month or two, so until then its connected to my MBP through USB. But generally speaking I'm super pleased with the performance of this DAC. It is pretty huge in size (close to WA5 amp in size), but is beautifully finished with laquered black wood on top. As for sonic performance, its definately no slouch and I can feel the improved dynamics, resolution and spatial awareness of the music compared to the DLIII. But as I mentioned earlier, this DAC will perform way better through the Bridge, which uses I2S and gets rids of any jitter / clocking issues and has higher bitrate capabilities. Here is a neat video explaining it all: http://www.youtube.com/v/QKm6zDAb7G4&autoplay=1_

 

I went from Apogee mini-DAC and stock Digital Link III to the Perfectwave DAC for the same reasons, and am using it the same way until the Bridge is available. It is a great DAC for my Woo WES (keeping it on topic) and matches my Stax O2 Mk1 better than the Apogee does.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've ask Jack to align the tube sockets of my WA22, make all tube logos face forward but with replied below:

*"To align the tube label to the front compromise sound quality as it defeat the purpose of shortest path wiring. I do not recommend this approach and hope you understand."*

 So I keep the original setting as advised._

 

Please post impression on WA22 when you receive it, I was going to order one until tax accountant called me last week.


----------



## dannie01

I'll try. But I'm just wondering you're going to order the WA5LE?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try. But I'm just wondering you're going to order the WA5LE?_

 

I was thinking WA5LE but after few emails exchange with Jack about balanced HD800, he recommend WA22 instead and in the long run will save me some money as I don't have to roll the 300B tube. Plus I can keep my Sophia and EML 5U4G for the WA22. He is not a good sales man.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking WA5LE but after few emails exchange with Jack about balanced HD800, he recommend WA22 instead and in the long run will save me some money as I don't have to roll the 300B tube. Plus I can keep my Sophia and EML 5U4G for the WA22. He is not a good sales man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's the same reason I ordered the WA22, the balanced HD800 and this would be a very good combo what I read from the other thread (and this amp is what I can afford and approved by my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Now is time to search some tubes for the amp, I ordered the EML 5U4G from Jack, a pair of Raytheon 6F8G on Ebay and a pair of GEC 6080 from a seller in Taiwan. Now I'm bidding a pair of Tung Sol 6F8G through Ebay but these tubes are crazy, I was outbid for US220!!!!!!! Hope your'e not the guy whom outbidded me.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I'm bidding a pair of Tung Sol 6F8G through Ebay but these tubes are crazy, I was outbid for US220!!!!!!! Hope your'e not the guy whom outbidded me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Nope, no money for toys for a while. Unless the market is on my side.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered the EML 5U4G from Jack_

 

You are now the third person to mention buying EML tubes from Jack, but when I emailed him about it he never even replied. I guess that pretty much settles the question of whether or not he sells them now that this many people have talked about it.


----------



## himynameis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've ask Jack to align the tube sockets of my WA22, make all tube logos face forward but with replied below:

*"To align the tube label to the front compromise sound quality as it defeat the purpose of shortest path wiring. I do not recommend this approach and hope you understand."*

 So I keep the original setting as advised._

 


 Hmmm I find that just mean... How much of a sonic improvment can be added/lost when one uses a half-an-inch longer wire? 
 I think the answear is: truly neglijable.

  Quote:


 That's the same reason I ordered the WA22, the balanced HD800 
 

I was very close to buying the WA22 maxxed also but eventually figured that it wasn't worth it for three reasons: 
 1-too many cans to rewire - I don't see myself using just one or two headphones because I like specialised ones, that deliver the best euphonic experiences (that's the whole point of the WA22 afterall - using balanced all the way), 
 2-I'm not a fan of multi-purpose gadgets - therefore, I considered the WA6SE maxxed to be the best tube amp specialised in driving SE headphones (in the under $2500 price bracket) 
 3-most likely, in the nearby future there will be smth like WA22SE or at least more options like Blackgates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 You are now the third person to mention buying EML tubes from Jack, but when I emailed him about it he never even replied. I guess that pretty much settles the question of whether or not he sells them now that this many people have talked about it. 
 

Although I live in Europe (EML is a Czech company) I also bought the EML 5U4G mesh from Jack - send him another email.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1-too many cans to rewire - I don't see myself using just one or two headphones because I like specialised ones, that deliver the best euphonic experiences (that's the whole point of the WA22 afterall - using balanced all the way), 
 2-I'm not a fan of multi-purpose gadgets - therefore, I considered the WA6SE maxxed to be the best tube amp specialised in driving SE headphones (in the under $2500 price bracket) 
 3-most likely, in the nearby future there will be smth like WA22SE or at least more options like Blackgates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Jack did mention WA22 SE sound very close to WA6SE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are now the third person to mention buying EML tubes from Jack, but when I emailed him about it he never even replied. I guess that pretty much settles the question of whether or not he sells them now that this many people have talked about it._

 

I dunno why he's not answering your email, maybe he jsut wanna sell the EML tubes with his amp as a combo but stand alone, who knows? Sorry Xcalibur, can't help about this.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm I find that just mean... How much of a sonic improvment can be added/lost when one uses a half-an-inch longer wire? 
 I think the answear is: truly neglijable._

 

Me too, but anyway............... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was very close to buying the WA22 maxxed also but eventually figured that it wasn't worth it for three reasons: 
 1-too many cans to rewire - I don't see myself using just one or two headphones because I like specialised ones, that deliver the best euphonic experiences (that's the whole point of the WA22 afterall - using balanced all the way),_

 

I have only 2 pairs of cans right now, the DX1000 and HD800. It's recabled into balanced driven by a balanced beta22, so this is more sensible for me to choose the WA22.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2-I'm not a fan of multi-purpose gadgets - therefore, I considered the WA6SE maxxed to be the best tube amp specialised in driving SE headphones (in the under $2500 price bracket) 
 3-most likely, in the nearby future there will be smth like WA22SE or at least more options like Blackgates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm an ex-owner of a WA6SE and I was really happy with this amp. And Jack mentioned this will not be happened shortly (maxxed WA22 with parts up-grade). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I will mod it by replacing the stock caps with BG/ Mundrof...............and the resistors.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack did mention WA22 SE sound very close to WA6SE._

 

jc, I think himynameis is saying about the SPECIAL EDITION with parts up-grade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers


----------



## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *himynameis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm I find that just mean... How much of a sonic improvment can be added/lost when one uses a half-an-inch longer wire? 
 I think the answear is: truly neglijable.



 I was very close to buying the WA22 maxxed also but eventually figured that it wasn't worth it for three reasons: 
 1-too many cans to rewire - I don't see myself using just one or two headphones because I like specialised ones, that deliver the best euphonic experiences (that's the whole point of the WA22 afterall - using balanced all the way), 
 2-I'm not a fan of multi-purpose gadgets - therefore, I considered the WA6SE maxxed to be the best tube amp specialised in driving SE headphones (in the under $2500 price bracket) 
 3-most likely, in the nearby future there will be smth like WA22SE or at least more options like Blackgates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Although I live in Europe (EML is a Czech company) I also bought the EML 5U4G mesh from Jack - send him another email._

 

Hey, don't forget there is also an WA5LE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which is also an SingleEnded amplifier, no need to rewire all your HP's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That is an ultimate amplifier, at least in my book.
 Someday I will borow that EML rectifier from you, if it's much better than SP, i will get one too ASAP.
 Cheers.


----------



## midoo1990

Finally I have my wa6,I got it from the airport this morning and I have been listening for about 30 minutes and so far I am not impressed.

 I don't see any improvment for either the hd600 or d5000.I have the Sophia but I don't want to roll now because I wanna see the sound of the stock tubes.By the way Sophia is huuuuge,the pictures don't do them any justice.


----------



## midoo1990

I will wait for burn in before making judgements.

 The amp itself is a master piece,it is very heavy and screams quality.Also I looove the volume control,very big and well constructed.I asked Jack to write the value of the package wrong so that I don't pay any customs and he wrote it's value as $100 and I paid only $15 customs.cudos to a great man and wonderful amp.
 More impressions and pics later.


----------



## DarKu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally I have my wa6,I got it from the airport this morning and I have been listening for about 30 minutes and so far I am not impressed._

 

Congrats!
 Until 200-400 hours of burn-in (at least) all your impressions will be wrong, the sound will change *a lot* after first weeks of use.
 PS: To really enjoy your new toy, you *need *a DAC. I recommend to start with the DacMagic, it's pretty cheap and sounds nice at that price point. Or you can go the DIY route if you have the skills and build a gamma 2 (γ2) DAC


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks.I can feel that it is changing,I am using the stock tubes for burn in,I don't want to shorten the lifetime of the Sophia
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 And yes,I will built a DAC in the summer,2 months from now because I am busy at university.OTOH,I didn't imagine that it will be this heavy,I feel that it is more than 7 kilos!


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats!
 Until 200-400 hours of burn-in (at least) all your impressions will be wrong, the sound will change *a lot* after first weeks of use._

 

Agree! You need some burn-in to have the parts settled, no matter it's BG or stock and tubes. It also apply to the Sophia for at least +50 hrs to make her really sings.

 Anyway, congrats on the new toy arrived finally and welcome to the club, midoo.


----------



## midoo1990

Is it supposed to smell a bit?I opened it up to take some pics and look inside and there is a smell.it is not strong or a something burnt smell,but is obvious.is that ok?also the small tubes 6DE7 turned black from the front side,is it also ok to turn black this fast?thx.

 Edit:Thanks Dannie,I will wait for the burn in .


----------



## DarKu

did you select the *correct* voltage setting behind of the amp ? I do hope so....


----------



## midoo1990

Ya 230v


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it supposed to smell a bit?I opened it up to take some pics and look inside and there is a smell.it is not strong or a something burnt smell,but is obvious.is that ok?also the small tubes 6DE7 turned black from the front side,is it also ok to turn black this fast?thx.

 Edit:Thanks Dannie,I will wait for the burn in ._

 

A smell is normal as long as it isn't a burning smell. As far as your tubes turning black, are you sure it isn't getter flashing you are seeing? Can you take pictures and post them here?? Click on my "Bedroom System" see if you tubes look like mine. If they do, it's normal side getter flashing


----------



## midoo1990

yes,its like yours,but neverthless i will upload some pics now to keep the trend of this thread


----------



## atbglenn

Midoo1990, you need to change you sig to "not waiting"


----------



## midoo1990

I Took these pics with my blackberry 8900,i will take better pics when my sister give me back my big sony camera DSC H-9


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I Took these pics with my blackberry 8900,i will take better pics when my sister give me back my big sony camera back





_

 

I see they now use a circuit board on the pot. My 2 year old WA6 is a little different


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally I have my wa6,I got it from the airport this morning and I have been listening for about 30 minutes and so far I am not impressed._

 

my findings exactly.
 the stock rectifier that jack sends with it is awful. the sound was congested, dull, uninvolving... what else can i say?

 just burn the amp in for a couple dozen hours and then roll in the sophia. and welcome to audio nirvana.


----------



## midoo1990

yes,the stock tube is dull with my hd650,the bass is tight but soft,clarity is not great and its a bit slow .i will roll sophia this evening


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes,the stock tube is dull with my hd650,the bass is tight but soft,clarity is not great and its a bit slow .i will roll sophia this evening_

 

which driver tubes did you get?
 jack has been sending fat bottle 6fd7's lately.


----------



## Towert7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheWuss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the stock rectifier that jack sends with it is awful._

 

Which one does he send as stock?


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Towert7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one does he send as stock?_

 

I'm wondering too. I received some Russian tube in a blue and yellow box. I think it sounds pretty good, but haven't done a direct comparision with my Princess yet.


----------



## midoo1990

It's written on it 5Z4G made in USSR.what is that country?US?


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's written on it 5Z4G made in USSR.what is that country?US?_

 

USSR. that's russia.
 probably sovtek. but might also be another brand.

 and it looks like your driver tubes are fat bottle 6fd7. those will serve you well.


----------



## K_19

For what it's worth, I wasn't impressed with my WA6 with the stock Sovteks rectifier either (not sure what brand your stock may be). Sophia did make a huge difference to me, one that made it go from "meh" to "great".


----------



## himynameis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarKu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, don't forget there is also an WA5LE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which is also an SingleEnded amplifier, no need to rewire all your HP's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That is an ultimate amplifier, at least in my book.
 Someday I will borow that EML rectifier from you, if it's much better than SP, i will get one too ASAP.
 Cheers._

 

Yeah there is, but "Diminishing Returns" starts to play on a loop in my head when I think of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 However, if I decide to go even further with my headphone quest, I want to get only ultimate rigs from now on - like 007MK2 & WES, K1000 and so on.
 But I don't see this happening anytime soon as I'm very satisfied with what I have right now and I just want to try more headphones.
 Maybe I'll get K1000 with a relatively cheap amp for those hot summer days as I don't like AC very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can get both EML and the JJ6386 (which just arrived today) to try this speed-combo on your amp & Havana DAC.

 BTW - is the meet after Easter still on?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see they now use a circuit board on the pot. My 2 year old WA6 is a little different



_

 

Hey, Glenn--This new circuit board on the pot, for what purpose does it serve?


----------



## carledwards

I'll add my 2 cents on the rectifier roll, too. The Sophia Princess makes a significant difference of the right kind!


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, Glenn--This new circuit board on the pot, for what purpose does it serve?_

 

In my opinion all the new circuit boards used in Woo amps are to facilitate building them and keeping all the connections / wires clean. The circuits are still point to point connections, but with circuit boards to direct to hold things in place for the wires / capacitors / resistors.


----------



## midoo1990

Ok I rolled to Sophia and I am burning them in,too early to make any impressions.I will take a listen in the morning.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see they now use a circuit board on the pot. My 2 year old WA6 is a little different
 </snip>_

 

My 6-month old WA6 does not use circuit boards either.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 6-month old WA6 does not use circuit boards either._

 

My WA2 has circuit boards all over the place and very neatly put together.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_equalizer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 6-month old WA6 does not use circuit boards either._

 

My 2 month old neither.

 Glad to see your WA6 finally made it home Midoo.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Since I don't think anybody has confirmed for you yet, midoo1990, the black spots on the front of your drive tubes are indeed normal. They should have been there before you ever turned the amp on for the first time, but perhaps you didn't notice right away. The spot is usually silver, but it can be darker in color. (edit: I see somebody did indeed address this, I missed it)

 As for stock tubes I concur with everybody else. My stock rectifier (no markings, white box, no brand, it's a mystery tube) has a pleasing sweet tone but it is a slow and soft sounding tube. I didn't mind it for a while because I listen on K701s, but if I had HD600 or HD650 my first impresssion would have been very negative too. If you are finding you want more speed and clarity a good future plan might be to roll your drive tubes to the Sylvania brand of 6FD7. They will give the Senns a bit more sparkle on the top if you think you are missing anything there. The RCA and GE tubes are darker and thicker sounding and may be too much of a good thing with your headphones. Stick with the big bottle if you want a big airy soundstage, or go small bottle if you want an improvement in PRAT and dynamics at the expense of some soundstage.


----------



## himynameis

Since it's show and tell hour, here's the inside of my WA6SE


----------



## IceClass

The internals of my Woo2:


----------



## TheWuss

i don't think the "circuit boards" are anything to be alarmed about.
 it's not like jack has gone the PCB route.
 he's simply using the boards to stirrup wire and keep things clean.
 something to mount the caps and transistors to. it looks to me like it's still point-to-point.


----------



## monsieurguzel

I'm personally more of a fan of the previous iterations of all these Woo Amps, at least from a visual standpoint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It just looked cooler when all the caps were strapped to the chassis instead of soldered to a circuit board, and the wires were fed directly to the ends.

 With the introduction of the green circuit boards, the insides look like a weird hybrid of a point to point old fashion tube amp and a modern SS amp. Maybe if he used blue PCBs instead, they would look way cooler than the standard green...

 From a sonic standpoint however I have no complaints


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Maybe if he used blue PCBs instead, they would look way cooler than the standard green..._

 

I fear we might be micro-plumbing the depths of audio geekdom at that point ...


----------



## atbglenn

I'm not a big fan of circuit boards, but they do make things look neater. They make it much harder to replace parts because in most cases you have to flip the board over in order to desolder a component, sometimes requiring desolding all or most of the connecting wires.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA2 has circuit boards all over the place and very neatly put together._

 

I'm digging those bronze-colored wires. It almost makes me want to trade in my WA22... NOT!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How are you liking the glowing golden baby, and the vinyl rips?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a big fan of circuit boards, but they do make things look neater. They make it much harder to replace parts because in most cases you have to flip the board over in order to desolder a component, sometimes requiring desolding all or most of the connecting wires._

 

I hate PCBs too. Point-to-point wiring looks so much cooler and neater. The worst is having a pad lift up when you're messing with a PCB.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hate PCBs too. Point-to-point wiring looks so much cooler and neater. The worst is having a pad lift up when you're messing with a PCB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes that is a big problem if you're not careful and overheat the pad. Also depends on the quality of the circuit board. Some are pretty bad when it comes to bonding the copper to fiberglass. I worked for a place that made mil spec multi layer circuit boards for Grumman Aerospace back in the 70's. A lot of material got rejected due to poor bonding (and other problems as well)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm digging those bronze-colored wires. It almost makes me want to trade in my WA22... NOT!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How are you liking the glowing golden baby, and the vinyl rips?

 I hate PCBs too. Point-to-point wiring looks so much cooler and neater. The worst is having a pad lift up when you're messing with a PCB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey, TheAudioDude. I am still in Hawaii and I missed the delivery. It should be waiting for me on my desk in SF. I'll get it on Monday when I return to work.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought of you in Hawaii when I came across a few lava rock sculptures of Hula Maidens--you know, the tourist kind--had to laugh. Anyway, I can't wait until I return to work on Monday to audition the Glowing Golden Baby. It will certainly distract me from the WA2. Anyway, I only use the Woo2 as a preamp. I'm also anticipating Golden Bliss when I listen to your vinyl rips. THANKS.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a big fan of circuit boards, but they do make things look neater. They make it much harder to replace parts because in most cases you have to flip the board over in order to desolder a component, sometimes requiring desolding all or most of the connecting wires._

 

I agree with you, my friend. But I still will do some desoldering job for replacing parts in my WA22 when it arrived.


----------



## atbglenn

Clayton buddy,

 What is a Glowing Golden Baby??


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clayton buddy,

 What is a Glowing Golden Baby??_

 

It's an EML 5U4G Solid Plate rectifier. I will soon have a chance to listen to it.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's an EML 5U4G Solid Plate rectifier. I will soon have a chance to listen to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you buy one, or is it on loan?


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since I don't think anybody has confirmed for you yet, midoo1990, the black spots on the front of your drive tubes are indeed normal. They should have been there before you ever turned the amp on for the first time, but perhaps you didn't notice right away. The spot is usually silver, but it can be darker in color. (edit: I see somebody did indeed address this, I missed it)

 As for stock tubes I concur with everybody else. My stock rectifier (no markings, white box, no brand, it's a mystery tube) has a pleasing sweet tone but it is a slow and soft sounding tube. I didn't mind it for a while because I listen on K701s, but if I had HD600 or HD650 my first impresssion would have been very negative too. If you are finding you want more speed and clarity a good future plan might be to roll your drive tubes to the Sylvania brand of 6FD7. They will give the Senns a bit more sparkle on the top if you think you are missing anything there. The RCA and GE tubes are darker and thicker sounding and may be too much of a good thing with your headphones. Stick with the big bottle if you want a big airy soundstage, or go small bottle if you want an improvement in PRAT and dynamics at the expense of some soundstage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks my friend for the recomendations,I will wait till all things burn in and see if I need any improvements.

 On another note,the stock rectifier tube came in a box that is not white,it is blue and yellow and writtern Russian all over it and it's number as I said before is 5z4G.The company's name is written in English: ElectroNorgTechnica.


----------



## techenvy

best woo for vinyl under 1000?

 bomp!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you buy one, or is it on loan?_

 

It's a loaner. Now I have to prime my ears and sonic vocabulary and get ready for this EML. I've never heard a Sophia Princess either. I know, they're two different animals--I mean tube types.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a loaner. Now I have to prime my ears and sonic vocabulary and get ready for this EML. I've never heard a Sophia Princess either. I know, they're two different animals--I mean tube types._

 

I will call you Monday or Tuesday. I want to know in detail what you think. I know you're really good at describing the way things sound, just like me


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will call you Monday or Tuesday. I want to know in detail what you think. I know you're really good at describing the way things sound, just like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't want to spoil anything you might hear from Clayton, but I posted my impressions/comparison between the EML 5U4G solid and mesh plate. You can read it here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6495137-post170.html

 There's more discussion towards the end of this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/eml...e-wa22-456533/






 Clayton-
 I hope you're enjoying Hawaii. Have you stepped in any lava yet?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a loaner. Now I have to prime my ears and sonic vocabulary and get ready for this EML. I've never heard a Sophia Princess either. I know, they're two different animals--I mean tube types._

 

There is a surprising lack of in depth comparisons between Sophia and EML on this forum if you ask me. I would think more people would face the two off against each other, but everybody seems to just pick one brand or the other and be done with it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will wait till all things burn in and see if I need any improvements._

 

For me the amp really started to lock in its sound right after 100 hours. This is where it gained the clarity and detail retrieval I was hoping for, everything past that has been very subtle. Of course if I hadn't changed to my 5R4GY rectifier I probably wouldn't have been hearing the change anyway. 

 As for drive tubes, to me rolling those is as much about having fun as it is getting good sound. I started before the amp was broken in personally because I couldn't wait to pursue knowledge on the subject. The impact they have is a bit different than the rectifier (which can change the amp pretty dramatically I've found), like sampling different flavors. It's cheap and easy to tune to amp to suit your tastes this way.


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a surprising lack of in depth comparisons between Sophia and EML on this forum if you ask me. I would think more people would face the two off against each other, but everybody seems to just pick one brand or the other and be done with it._

 

I am currently researching the differences between the two and I've pretty much read most of the opinions already posted in various threads here. I have the Sophia, but am tempted by the EML Mesh 274b and the 5u4g mesh, then all of the sudden this 5u4g solid plate comes to light and further screws up my purchase patterns 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I checked EML's website and didn't see anything on the 5u4g solid plate. Interesting.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am currently researching the differences between the two and I've pretty much read most of the opinions already posted in various threads here. I have the Sophia, but am tempted by the EML Mesh 274b and the 5u4g mesh, then all of the sudden this 5u4g solid plate comes to light and further screws up my purchase patterns 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I checked EML's website and didn't see anything on the 5u4g solid plate. Interesting._

 

That is because the EML 5U4G and 274B Solid plates are no longer being made. 
 It would seem that both the EML 5U4G/274B solid plates are very close.

 ss


----------



## orkney

Hey Woo-heads,

 Thinking about picking one of these up for a friend -- has anyone had good results with the stock 6 and HD800s? Also, is Jack willing to retrofit upgrades to existing amps or is it a CTO option?

 best,

 o


----------



## jc9394

Not sure about stock WA6, but I'm very happy with my maxxed WA6/HD800 combo. The Sophia and 6FD7 does make a difference over stock and 6DE7.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure about stock WA6, but I'm very happy with my maxxed WA6/HD800 combo. The Sophia and 6FD7 does make a difference over stock and 6DE7._

 

I sent Woo Audio questions regarding Senn HD800 and Woo6 SE.... If it's a good match....think I'll go for it.....but stock Woo 6 SE....I'll upgrade the tubes after the burnin....

 Is it still a good idea ?

 Thanks
 Denys


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is because the EML 5U4G and 274B Solid plates are no longer being made. 
 It would seem that both the EML 5U4G/274B solid plates are very close.

 ss_

 

Ahh, thanks SS, that would explain it. Would you happen to know how recently they stopped making it? I'm just wondering if I can still buy them new somewhere or if I'm stuck buying a used tube.


----------



## masterchoi

WA6 SE + HD800 = Super Good!


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh, thanks SS, that would explain it. Would you happen to know how recently they stopped making it? I'm just wondering if I can still buy them new somewhere or if I'm stuck buying a used tube._

 

Probably over 1 year ago, hard to find now. I have the EML 274B Solid plate in my WA6SE. 
 However the new redesigned EML 5U4G Mesh is very close to the old EML soild plates. 

 ss


----------



## midoo1990

So I did a comparison between the Sophia (burned in for about 16-20 hours) and the stock tube and I am still dissapointed.
 I hear no difference at all between the two,I don't know why you guys say night and day difference.I am connecting it to my Sony DVD(which is by the way not ****ty,it is neutral and detailed,I can take pic if needed) and using CDs and my hd650 and I don't hear a difference.Also the sennheiser veil is not gone as some say here when paired with woo amps.how long does the Sophia need to change in sound with burn in?

 I am a burn in believer with headphones and iems but I don't know about tubes as this is my first tube amp.


----------



## TheWuss

midoo1990;6528988 said:
			
		

> So I did a comparison between the Sophia (burned in for about 16-20 hours) and the stock tube and I am still dissapointed.
> /QUOTE]
> man. i'm sorry that you're not feelin' it, midoo.
> 
> maybe try a different source besides the sony dvd, if you have one?


----------



## TheWuss

and btw, some say the sophia takes 80 to 100 hours.
 mine sounded wonderful at 25 or 30 hours, and didn't notice any changes since.


----------



## midoo1990

I will try different source although I believe that source doesn't make a difference as an amp.overall at this point I am dissapointed with my purchase and I wish I sticked with my micro amp as they sound the same to my ears,and the micro had a heavier bass impact but it was warmer.I'll burn it all this week and won't take a listen till Friday and if things doesnt change,I will sell it...


----------



## TheWuss

if you end up selling, the good news is that you'll probably break even and be able to buy back the pico.
 because of the 4 weeks wait time saved by buying used, folks will pay nearly the original sale price for a woo amp.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent Woo Audio questions regarding Senn HD800 and Woo6 SE.... If it's a good match....think I'll go for it.....but stock Woo 6 SE....I'll upgrade the tubes after the burnin....

 Is it still a good idea ?

 Thanks
 Denys_

 

Have Jack modify the 6se to accept 6fd7, I think it makes a difference compare to 6de7 and 6ew7 when pairing with hd800.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My Sophia sounded like crap the first 20-30 hours, and improved until 80 hours when it sounded great, without the plasticky treble of the stock tube or the thick mids and poor bass control of the Amperex GZ34.


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks Larry for your comment,that makes me have high hopes
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.I am burning it in,8 hours and then 1 hour rest and then opening it again.


----------



## Groundzero

I haven't tried the stock tube yet, but I can say that my Sophia is definitely sounding better by the day. I'd guess somewhere around 60-70hrs so far, but it really starts to shine after 4+ hrs of listening. Another pic just cause


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't tried the stock tube yet, but I can say that my Sophia is definitely sounding better by the day. I'd guess somewhere around 60-70hrs so far, but it really starts to shine after 4+ hrs of listening. Another pic just cause 



_

 

That wooden stand for your amp is really cool. It looks like it would be perfect for a WA22. Did you make it?


----------



## HeatFan12

Groundzero, that is beautiful. Is that headphone stand attached? Do you make them and are you selling any?....


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Groundzero, that is beautiful. Is that headphone stand attached? Do you make them and are you selling any?....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Very nice indeed!


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Groundzero, that is beautiful. Is that headphone stand attached? Do you make them and are you selling any?....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, the stand is integrated into the side of the shelf.




 I did make it and could make more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can make it out of whatever wood you want too. The one in the picture is Padauk finished with pure tung oil. PM me and we can work something out.


----------



## HeatFan12

Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the stand is integrated into the side of the shelf.




 I did make it and could make more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can make it out of whatever wood you want too. The one in the picture is Padauk finished with pure tung oil. PM me and we can work something out._

 

Nice, nice, nice! It kinda looks like an abstract Trojan Horse. It must weigh as much as one. Such creativity to incorporate the headphone stand into your shelf. That Sophia is BIG. I like the way the Sophia is positioned opposite the headphones. The balance (among lines and shapes) is wonderful between the hanging headphones and the statuesque Sophia. Such great woodwork.


----------



## Groundzero

Thanks for the compliments everyone, I wasn't expecting such a response to it. I'll happily make more for anyone interested. PM me and we can discuss the details. I can make them larger or smaller to accommodate different amps, add more headphone hangers, and make them taller to fit a larger cd player or DAC underneath.


----------



## Towert7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PM me and we can work something out._

 

Boy, I can only imagine the shipping charges if you were to ship it fully assembled. I'm guessing no less than 50$!

 Nice idea though. I tried to get my dad to make little audio shelves a year or two ago, but he didn't want to.
 Pitty, cause they are such a great item.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Towert7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Boy, I can only imagine the shipping charges if you were to ship it fully assembled. I'm guessing no less than 50$!

 Nice idea though. I tried to get my dad to make little audio shelves a year or two ago, but he didn't want to.
 Pitty, cause they are such a great item._

 

Didn't think about shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could always dry fit them then ship it in pieces. The buyer would just have to glue it together.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the compliments everyone, I wasn't expecting such a response to it. I'll happily make more for anyone interested. PM me and we can discuss the details. I can make them larger or smaller to accommodate different amps, add more headphone hangers, and make them taller to fit a larger cd player or DAC underneath._

 

I'd love to make my own equipment table/rack but I don't have any of the equipment.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to see one like yours with an additional shelf, and a U-shaped nestling spot on the right side for vinyls. Also, if you could attach a La-Z-Boy recliner to it, that would be great. Possible?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and I almost forgot, a beer bottle holder would be the icing on the cake.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to make my own equipment table/rack but I don't have any of the equipment.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to see one like yours with an additional shelf, and a U-shaped nestling spot on the right side for vinyls. Also, if you could attach a La-Z-Boy recliner to it, that would be great. Possible?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and I almost forgot, a beer bottle holder would be the icing on the cake._

 

Everything except the lazboy is possible! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now why didn't I think of a bottle holder...


----------



## hifidk

While everyone is impressed with the stand (I am too), I am more impressed by the quality of the pictures. I say very good photo skills. Nicely done!


----------



## Denys

OMG.... I did it !!!!

 I just ordered a Woo 6 SE with extra tubes !!!!! To listen to with my HD800 !

 Hope I made the right choice !!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Denys


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tke398* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_then all of the sudden this 5u4g solid plate comes to light and further screws up my purchase patterns_

 

Reading TheAudioDude's recent comparison between mesh and solid plate only reinforced my decision to focus on the mesh plate tubes. But, I have yet to see an in-depth comparison between the 5U4G and 274b EML tubes that can help a person make up their mind on that front. The 274B is a well known tube that is well liked by many people, but the new 5U4G seems to be all the rage right now. TOTM (tube of the moment) perhaps?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will try different source although I believe that source doesn't make a difference as an amp.overall at this point I am dissapointed with my purchase and I wish I sticked with my micro amp as they sound the same to my ears,and the micro had a heavier bass impact but it was warmer.I'll burn it all this week and won't take a listen till Friday and if things doesnt change,I will sell it..._

 

I know it is easy to throw around the kind of advice I'm about to dispense, but I'm going to say it anyway because I really do believe in it. What you need to do is get a good external DAC and switch to using your Sony player as a transport only. I've hooked my gear up to the analog output of my Denon CD player just to "sanity check" myself once or twice, and the sound is godawful compared to what I'm used to. A quality DAC really makes a difference once you have an amp that can hold up its end.

 The analogy I like to use is this: getting your first great amp or speakers is like cleaning a dirty window...... you are literally hearing things you did not hear before. What a DAC does is remove the glass from the window pane..... the change is not dramatic but everything gains a clarity and precision that makes the music feel REAL instead of a recording.

 It could just be that you are not a hyper critical listener either and aren't sensitive to more subtle changes in sound. Which is totally okay. Everybody should listen in the way that suits them best.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG.... I did it !!!!

 I just ordered a Woo 6 SE with extra tubes !!!!! To listen to with my HD800 !

 Hope I made the right choice !!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Denys_

 

congrats!


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_congrats!_

 

Thank you Sir....

 I own a LD MK III for my Grado 325.....an Antique Sound Lab MK III with upgraded parts that I used for my HD800.....but now I'll use it for my old Senn HD 424 that I bought in 1979 !!!

 My ASL sounded so good, I wasn't sure I made a good choice purchasing a Woo 6 SE... Hope it's a good move...

 Denys


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG.... I did it !!!!

 I just ordered a Woo 6 SE with extra tubes !!!!! To listen to with my HD800 !

 Hope I made the right choice !!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 Denys_

 

Congrats, I love my WA6SE and HD 800s.
 I also had a LD IVSE with HD650. 

 ss


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know it is easy to throw around the kind of advice I'm about to dispense, but I'm going to say it anyway because I really do believe in it. What you need to do is get a good external DAC and switch to using your Sony player as a transport only. I've hooked my gear up to the analog output of my Denon CD player just to "sanity check" myself once or twice, and the sound is godawful compared to what I'm used to. A quality DAC really makes a difference once you have an amp that can hold up its end.

 The analogy I like to use is this: getting your first great amp or speakers is like cleaning a dirty window...... you are literally hearing things you did not hear before. What a DAC does is remove the glass from the window pane..... the change is not dramatic but everything gains a clarity and precision that makes the music feel REAL instead of a recording.

 It could just be that you are not a hyper critical listener either and aren't sensitive to more subtle changes in sound. Which is totally okay. Everybody should listen in the way that suits them best._

 

Oh believe me,I am a critical listener and I can detect subtle changes with no problem and I am 18 years old and my hearing is very sensitive especially to loud voices and harsh treble.

 I don't want to get a dac now because one of the reasons I don't have money right now,wa6 and Sophia destroyed me.But the most important thing is because if I get a dac and I found a change in the sound,than the amp will not be the one that made the effect,it is the dac that made it.And you say that dac will change the sound slighlty by making it clearer,well that's what I am not complaining at.My Sony cd player is detailed,transparent and neutral.my main complain is the amp itself and the fact that I can hear no difference between $2 stock tube and $150 one.

 I will take by larry's advice and continue burning it in.


----------



## himynameis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my main complain is the amp itself and the fact that I can hear no difference between $2 stock tube and $150 one.

 I will take by larry's advice and continue burning it in._

 


 1. Give it at least 100 hours of burn-in
 2. After ~50 hours of burn-in I changed the stock rectifier with the EML 5U4G mesh. The differences were VERY NOTICEABLE.
 From my experience, if you don't hear the differences between stock and SP or EML, there must be something "off" in the rest of the rig - most probably the lack of a good DAC.
 x2 "Buy a good DAC"


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh believe me,I am a critical listener and I can detect subtle changes with no problem and I am 18 years old and my hearing is very sensitive especially to loud voices and harsh treble.

 I don't want to get a dac now because one of the reasons I don't have money right now,wa6 and Sophia destroyed me.But the most important thing is because if I get a dac and I found a change in the sound,than the amp will not be the one that made the effect,it is the dac that made it.And you say that dac will change the sound slighlty by making it clearer,well that's what I am not complaining at.My Sony cd player is detailed,transparent and neutral.my main complain is the amp itself and the fact that I can hear no difference between $2 stock tube and $150 one.

 I will take by larry's advice and continue burning it in._

 

Sorry for the intrusion but if the source is not good to start with, nothing will make the sound better. I can't agree more with everyone suggesting you to buy a good DAC.....The DacMagic from Cambridge Audio for example is not too expensive and will completely change your listening experience.

 Denys


----------



## midoo1990

you call $395 not too expensive?maybe it is not expensive for you but as a university student,i cant afford it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my main complain is the amp itself and the fact that I can hear no difference between $2 stock tube and $150 one.

 I will take by larry's advice and continue burning it in._

 

I'm not doubting you here, but this still just sounds odd to me. Rolling rectifiers produced changes in sound that were not subtle at ALL in my amp. I have a Tung Sol tube I can roll in which makes it sound like a completely different amp....... literally everything aspect of the music presented in a significantly different way. It is night and day. You should be hearing changes when you change tubes. Especially if you received a Sovtek as a stock tube, the Sophia should have brought a large improvement in focus and texture detail to the table.

 Color me puzzled.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you call $395 not too expensive?maybe it is not expensive for you but as a university student,i cant afford it._

 

Well, we mean buy one when you can, not necessarily right now. The message is that a DAC is important to create a complete system when you buy an amp like the Woo. You are not getting the amps full potential unless your other components are performing at the same level. When you step up to an amp like the Woo a DAC should be part of the plans at some point if you ask me. You have no obligation to of course but to me its like buying a Ferrari and then putting cheap all season tires on it..... a waste of potential.


----------



## midoo1990

well,i will trade my d5000 with a dac,they are not seeing much use and i dont like them,i much prefer my hd650.so what dac in the same price range should i trade my d5000 with? Dac magic or something else?

 I have my doubts on the effect of a dac but i will take your advice guys and get a dac.


----------



## himynameis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my doubts on the effect of a dac but i will take your advice guys and get a dac._

 

Doubt no more anf thou shall receive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cambridge DacMagic is said to be really good for its price range... 
 I could recommed Havana (9/10) and DA10 (7-8/10) for pure enjoyment of music but unfortunatelly, both are out of your current budget so a good choice would be smth SH in the DacMagic price range.

 Happy hunting!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my doubts on the effect of a dac but i will take your advice guys and get a dac._

 

Well, at the end of the day advice is just that. You have to trust your own feelings on these things too. Though, if it helps reassure you every leap of faith I've ever taken in audio has been rewarded. I was doubtful of the benefits of external DACs too until I bought mine. It was the final piece of the puzzle that really brought things to the level I wanted.

 As a relatively affordable option I'd second the DacMagic. There are cheaper options but you want something that performs well to justify getting one in the first place. I've heard good things about the Little Dot DAC_1 as well, which comes in just under $300 but for the price difference I would go with Cambridge for peace of mind. I won't recommend my DAC because it cost more than the Woo did.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well,i will trade my d5000 with a dac,they are not seeing much use and i dont like them,i much prefer my hd650.so what dac in the same price range should i trade my d5000 with? Dac magic or something else?

 I have my doubts on the effect of a dac but i will take your advice guys and get a dac._

 

I have owned three DACs in your general price range: CA DacMagic, Little Dot DAC_II and MDHT Paradisea v. 1. 

 I found the DacMagic and Dac_II to be of about equivalent quality, with the DacMagic a bit more engaging in the highs (some would say artificially so) and the Dac_II somewhat more balanced but perhaps a touch less impactful. I sold the LD and am posting the DacMagic for sale tonight, as both have been replaced by an Audio-GD DAC19DF (which is excellent, BTW).

 The MHDT is my favorite of the three and now owns a permanent place in my speaker rig (used mainly in combination with an Apple Airport Express streaming ALAC files from my MacBook Pro). For headphone use, I especially favored it with SS amps, like my standard KICAS. With the WA6 w/PDPS and Sophia, I found it a tad soft and unfocused but still highly listenable. Inexpensive tube rolling with this DAC may have produced different results (I was using a NOS GE 5670), but since I never intended for the Paradisea to be a permanent fixture in my headphone setup I didn't bother.

 Ultimately, any of these three would be solid choices in the $300-400 range and would represent a huge improvement over your current CD player. The DacMagic is perhaps the safest choice, as it's in your price range, you would immediately notice its impact and could easily resell for your exact purchase price if you didn't (I took a decent hit on the Dac_II when it came time to sell).


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you call $395 not too expensive?maybe it is not expensive for you but as a university student,i cant afford it._

 

Sorry... didn't mean to offend you....

 Denys


----------



## sillysally

I use no external DAC in with my rigs. I use a Oppo BD-83NE and I also use HQ CD/SACD/DVD-A and BluRAy HD soundtracks from the movies. I use no compressed audio files.

 Yes the Rectifier like a Sophia Princess should make a difference over the stock Rectifier. As far as a day night difference it would all depend on the source and your likes and dislikes. However after about 35 hours of burn-in you should have a good idea of how the Princess will sound when it is fully broken in. Also the power/drive tubes can make a difference. 

 Your Woo is a very nice Amp, however as most audiophile Amps they are fairly neutral. 
 That said you can change to sum degree the bass, mid, highs with tubes and sources ect. Chances are you are now hearing a better reproduction of the audio track that you are playing, its just that you are not use too this type of neutrality. 

 This is not a cheap hobby as you are now finding out and there is some trail and error to find the right sound signature with components.

 ss


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry... didn't mean to offend you....

 Denys_

 

no need to apologize,I didn't take it as an offence.

 @Olias:Thank you for the recommendations.I am currently communicating with a headfier that want to trade his Dac magic with my d5000 and I think we may have a deal.we'll see what happens.

 @sillysally:I know neutrality and I had the k701 which is fairly neutral but has some flaws,the problem is I hear no difference at all between my wa6 andy ex-micro amp which I bought for $200.And I was using my micro with my iPod touch that contains mainly 320kbps.but now I am using my Cds and cd player and a better amp and I hear no difference whatso ever except maybe in the bass department where the wa6 is softer with sweeter impact to it.
 I am torturing my wa6 right now with burn in and will take a listen tomorrow or so to see how things changes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to spoil anything you might hear from Clayton, but I posted my impressions/comparison between the EML 5U4G solid and mesh plate. You can read it here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6495137-post170.html

 There's more discussion towards the end of this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/eml...e-wa22-456533/






 Clayton-
 I hope you're enjoying Hawaii. Have you stepped in any lava yet?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

TheAudioDude-
 Sorry for the late response but I am on Hawaiian time that means this warm weather has made me slow to respond to anything. I am, however, enjoying Hawaii. Nope, no lava in sight to step into just a lot of sand and beer, and a few wayward turtles--real turtles. The only thing that I am looking forward to tomorrow is that EML 5U4G solid plate rectifier and your vinyl rips which should certainly wake up both me and my WA22!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Other than that, my first day back at work should certainly be a dull one.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well,i will trade my d5000 with a dac,they are not seeing much use and i dont like them,i much prefer my hd650.so what dac in the same price range should i trade my d5000 with? Dac magic or something else?

 I have my doubts on the effect of a dac but i will take your advice guys and get a dac._

 

Get a gamma2 if you can find one, I really love the gamma2/wa6 combo.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get a gamma2 if you can find one, I really love the gamma2/wa6 combo._

 

I will build it in the summer,but right now I will trade my d5000 with dac magic or something similar.

 On another note,I took a listen today and the sound changed dramatically.the bass power reduced and the whole soundstage became bigger and more 3dish with hd650 and details became more apparent,not much but obvious and instrument seperation improved Alot,I find this is the most apparent thing.
 The best thing is the bass,it has very sweet tone to it and the impact is not overpowering or strong as I found with my SS amp headroom micro.The whole presentation is very lush and different from my ex micro amp,it is more spacious with a 'sweeter tone'.
 If I can describe my wa6 right now,I would say it is lush,laid back,spacious with incredible soundstage and airness and fantastic instrument seperation.it is very nice for a relaxing listening after studying something like physics for 2-3hours.
 The micro amp on the other hand was warmer with very strong bass that was sometimes too much,and it's soundstage was smaller also instrument seperation wasn't as good as what I hear now with wa6.But what the micro excelled at is power.you just feel with genres like electronica or such it had the power and energy and the attack and not the lushness of the wa6.But I much prefer the wa6 because I value 'atmosphere' and airier presentation than a stronger one.when I listen to my favourite genres vocal trance,with wa6 I just close my eye and become sucked in the atmosperic eupheriac presentation and the sweet bass that has a soft sweet impact that is tight and accurate.

 Now I am a happy man and I now appreciate my wa6 and I feel that the money I spent is well gone to a great man,Jack.
 However,I am not 100% satisfied
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.I need a little bit more detail and a bit more brighter presentation.I will wait for Sophia to continue burning in(the stock tube is collecting dust now) and I'll see if I can trade my d5000 for a dac.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Well, I shipped my WA6SE back to Woo Audio, to repair/replace a blown cap. This was a week ago last Friday; I then left town for a week's vacation. Upon returning this past Saturday, I saw an email message from my shipping shop stating that the amp had been delivered and signed for at Woo Audio. 

 I figured I would be getting it back by now, since the repair should have only taken a very short time. I emailed Woo Audio today, just to check on the repair status; I received a reply a short time ago from Jack, saying that they had not yet received my amp! 

 He asked if I had a tracking number, which I promptly sent; it definitely shows that the amp was delivered and signed for at their address. I hope it isn't lost somewhere; I'm anxious to get it back, and after using it only for a day and a half before the cap blew, I already miss the sound. 

 Hopefully I won't have to deal with UPS and insurance claims; that would mean another month long wait for another amp to be built.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I shipped my WA6SE back to Woo Audio, to repair/replace a blown cap. This was a week ago last Friday; I then left town for a week's vacation. Upon returning this past Saturday, I saw an email message from my shipping shop stating that the amp had been delivered and signed for at Woo Audio. 

 I figured I would be getting it back by now, since the repair should have only taken a very short time. I emailed Woo Audio today, just to check on the repair status; I received a reply a short time ago from Jack, saying that they had not yet received my amp! 

 He asked if I had a tracking number, which I promptly sent; it definitely shows that the amp was delivered and signed for at their address. I hope it isn't lost somewhere; I'm anxious to get it back, and after using it only for a day and a half before the cap blew, I already miss the sound. 

 Hopefully I won't have to deal with UPS and insurance claims; that would mean another month long wait for another amp to be built._

 

I wish you luck on this. I just bought a WA6SE myself last Saturday, and on Easter Jack replied to me stipulating it takes around three weeks to build...

 Then it will be shipped here in Canada......Hope I won't get nailed too much by the duties !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least the CAD exchange is good these days!!!

 While I am here....do I burn the amp with the Sophia tube immediately or should I wait a week or two ??? What did you guys do?

 Denys


----------



## tke398

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish you luck on this. I just bought a WA6SE myself last Saturday, and on Easter Jack replied to me stipulating it takes around three weeks to build...

 Then it will be shipped here in Canada......Hope I won't get nailed too much by the duties !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least the CAD exchange is good these days!!!

 While I am here....do I burn the amp with the Sophia tube immediately or should I wait a week or two ??? What did you guys do?

 Denys_

 

I waited a week to put the Sophia in because my WA6SE shipped early (only 10 days to build) and I thought I had time to buy it before it arrived. I would have burned it immediately since you can bang out burning everything in all at once.


----------



## midoo1990

I listened to the stock tube for about 4 hours and then changed to Sophia and I am burning it from then.
 If you are afraid about duties ask Jack to write the value of the package as $100.
 I asked him to do so for me and he agreed and I only paid $20 as duties.But it was a risk to do so but I told him that if the package was lost or something,I would take responsibility.usps never failed me so I had confidence in them and it paid off.If the Value of the package was written as $750,I would have paid not less than $150 as customs.they are rip offs in my country.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However,I am not 100% satisfied
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.I need a little bit more detail and a bit more brighter presentation._

 

Good to hear it is coming together for you. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to let the anxiety of the purchase pass too. The DacMagic will accomplish both of these things for you quite well I think so buy (or rather trade) with confidence. Don't forget to purchase a decent set of interconnects to run between the DAC and amp. Nothing excessive. I use Signal Cable Analog Twos which are about $50 for a short 2-3 foot run, but you can get their cheaper Analog One for around $35 I think. This is a very reasonable price for a good cable that I feel is inline with the cost of the items it is connecting.


----------



## debitsohn

i assume, but not know for sure, the answer to my question.

 would my wa6 match better for the HF2 im considering buying or would a LD I+? i assume the wa6 is better but just wondering.


----------



## jc9394

Midoo1990, 

 What are you feeding to DacMagic? When I had the DacMagic, I found the USB section is crap compare to gamma2. If your source is anything but USB, DacMagic is fine.


----------



## gopack87

Woo 6 owners: do you think that the 6 (regular or SE) would be able to drive the Beyerdynamic T1's? I'm looking into getting the T1's and was wondering if the 6 would suffice or I would have to go for a 5LE or something super high end.....


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gopack87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woo 6 owners: do you think that the 6 (regular or SE) would be able to drive the Beyerdynamic T1's? I'm looking into getting the T1's and was wondering if the 6 would suffice or I would have to go for a 5LE or something super high end....._

 

T1 is my planned future headphone. Probably not until this time next year given my financials, but nevertheless. I really wasn't too concerned about the WA6 being able to drive them, I'm sure it'll do great. People told me the WA6 wouldn't drive my K701s worth a darn and it does beautifully with them, far better than the SS amp they are supposedly better suited to. I think there is a bit too much "power fever" on this forum sometimes, though I'm not denying there are some benefits to having more power on tap. The T1 is a 600ohm headphone that shines on an amp with good voltage swing, which tube amps are great at providing. The majority of the owners of the T1 so far pretty much agree it seems to do better on tubes than on SS due to the high impedance.

 Given how great the resale value of Woo amps is around here, you could probably buy a regular 6 or SE and if you feel as though you are missing something you can get almost all of your money back selling it and go for something further up the Woo line.


----------



## gopack87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_T1 is my planned future headphone. Probably not until this time next year given my financials, but nevertheless. I really wasn't too concerned about the WA6 being able to drive them, I'm sure it'll do great. People told me the WA6 wouldn't drive my K701s worth a darn and it does beautifully with them, far better than the SS amp they are supposedly better suited to. I think there is a bit too much "power fever" on this forum sometimes, though I'm not denying there are some benefits to having more power on tap. The T1 is a 600ohm headphone that shines on an amp with good voltage swing, which tube amps are great at providing. The majority of the owners of the T1 so far pretty much agree it seems to do better on tubes than on SS due to the high impedance.

 Given how great the resale value of Woo amps is around here, you could probably buy a regular 6 or SE and if you feel as though you are missing something you can get almost all of your money back selling it and go for something further up the Woo line._

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll probably buy a Woo 6SE and if I don't like it with the T1's, I'll sell one of the two


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *debitsohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i assume, but not know for sure, the answer to my question.

 would my wa6 match better for the HF2 im considering buying or would a LD I+? i assume the wa6 is better but just wondering._

 

I find my WA6 does a beautiful job with my grados (RS1i), and I previously had the LDI+. I find the WA6 to be a far more pleasing sounding amp - not that the LDI+ is a bad amp - Its just that the WA6 has a more tangible body and depth to the sound, whilst remaining very clean and clear. I have not heard the HF2 (it's on my to-do list though), but I would hazard a guess that it would play very nice.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Midoo1990, 

 What are you feeding to DacMagic? When I had the DacMagic, I found the USB section is crap compare to gamma2. If your source is anything but USB, DacMagic is fine._

 

I will feed it with my cd player.

 I have a question concerning dac.so if I connect it to cd player,computer..it only take the signal from it and the sound I will hear is the sound characteristic of the amp+dac,Or the sound I will hear is from amp+source and the dac only convert the signal from digital to analogue?or the sound I will hear is from the three?
 I find it strange that there is no sticky in the source forum explaining dacs and how they work.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will feed it with my cd player.

 I have a question concerning dac.so if I connect it to cd player,computer..it only take the signal from it and the sound I will hear is the sound characteristic of the amp+dac,Or the sound I will hear is from amp+source and the dac only convert the signal from digital to analogue?or the sound I will hear is from the three?
 I find it strange that there is no sticky in the source forum explaining dacs and how they work._

 

You connect the DVD player to the DAC using an SPDIF (coax) or optical wire. By doing so, your CD/DVD player is used as transport only, meaning that the conversion to a analogic sound id made through the DAC. Once, the signal is converted, it is sent to the amp...

 Denys


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks for the explanation,I read something similar to this on the net,but I still don't get it.so why do people here get expensive cd players to feed their dacs when it's only function is to act as a transport and has nothing to do with the sound?


----------



## Towert7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the explanation,I read something similar to this on the net,but I still don't get it.so why do people here get expensive cd players to feed their dacs when it's only function is to act as a transport and has nothing to do with the sound?_

 

They believe 'jitter' starts to play a role and changes the sound, so they try to buy better transports to reduce jitter.


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks.I dont know what means by jitter but I will look in google.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find my WA6 does a beautiful job with my grados (RS1i), and I previously had the LDI+. I find the WA6 to be a far more pleasing sounding amp - not that the LDI+ is a bad amp - Its just that the WA6 has a more tangible body and depth to the sound, whilst remaining very clean and clear. I have not heard the HF2 (it's on my to-do list though), but I would hazard a guess that it would play very nice._

 

thanks steve! i never tried the rs1i (which i would like to) but during the short time i had the HF2 it was getting better and better.


----------



## dannie01

I'm missing the Woo sound a lot these days by surfing this thread about all you guys are enjoying your toys, assumed 2 weeks more to wait for the WA22 arrived.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm missing the Woo sound a lot these days by surfing this thread about all you guys are enjoying your toys, assumed 2 weeks more to wait for the WA22 arrived._

 

Grats on your WA22.

 Would definitely a worth the wait.. though stock tubes are quite poor in performance..


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grats on your WA22.

 Would definitely a worth the wait.. though stock tubes are quite poor in performance.._

 

Thanks buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, yeah I know the stock tubes are almost crap when searching around for replacement (Seamaster helps alot and also other head-fiers). So I ordered a EML 5U4G with the amp from Jack, a pair of GEC 6080 power tube, a pair Raytheon and a pair RCA 6F8G power tubes with adaptors on Ebay. They ae now sitting around me but with no amp to play with for another 2 weeks.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, yeah I know the stock tubes are almost crap when searching around for replacement (Seamaster helps alot and also other head-fiers). So I ordered a EML 5U4G with the amp from Jack, a pair of GEC 6080 power tube, a pair Raytheon and a pair RCA 6F8G power tubes with adaptors on Ebay. They ae now sitting around me but with no amp to play with for another 2 weeks._

 

That's nice tubes.

 Where you score that GEC? I couldn't find ANY of them...

 Tung Sol 5998 is also great power tubes.


----------



## dannie01

I bought them through a Taiwan website and that guy is the one only willing to ship to HK.


----------



## midoo1990

Just wanted to report back on how much I love my wa6 right now.
 The soundstage literally exploded with Sophia.everything is more spacious and airier with the hd650 and the presentation became 3diash.details are becoming better and the bass is so sweet.hd650+wa6=lush and apprecaiting the sound.
 I don't think my ex k701 would be a good match with it because the bass on wa6 is soft,although I think the k701 could have been tamed down and become less metallic.
 I can't report on d5000 because I already boxed them waiting for anyone to trade with a nice dac.

 Now I need some recomendations for driver tubes.I want tubes that are bright and detailed,I don't care much about the bass because I like what I am hearing from Sophia bass wise.what do you guys recommend?


----------



## dannie01

You need around 200 - 300+ hrs for the stock caps to be settled as I've mentioned, you will hear what actual sound from your Woo 6, you'll be amazed and it's worth to wait.

 For the driver tubes, try to get a pair of TS 6CY7 on Ebay if you're luck enough, they're inexpensive though and they sounds a little bright to my ears but detail as what you're looking for.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I still love my WA6. When I bought my ZDT last year it was to replace the WA6, but 9 months later I still can't part with the WA6. Yes, the ZDT is more spacious with bigger soundstage and better separation and power, but the WA6 is still extremely good for my bedroom rig.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought them through a Taiwan website and that guy is the one only willing to ship to HK.








_

 

Can you PM me the website?


----------



## midoo1990

more pics...


----------



## K_19

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wanted to report back on how much I love my wa6 right now.
 The soundstage literally exploded with Sophia.everything is more spacious and airier with the hd650 and the presentation became 3diash.details are becoming better and the bass is so sweet.hd650+wa6=lush and apprecaiting the sound.
 I don't think my ex k701 would be a good match with it because the bass on wa6 is soft,although I think the k701 could have been tamed down and become less metallic.
 I can't report on d5000 because I already boxed them waiting for anyone to trade with a nice dac.

 Now I need some recomendations for driver tubes.I want tubes that are bright and detailed,I don't care much about the bass because I like what I am hearing from Sophia bass wise.what do you guys recommend?_

 

The K701 is a decent match (though not the best I've heard or anything) with the WA6 as long as you match the rest of your rig well with it. For example, with my DA100 (warmer DAC with good bottom end), K701 sounds really good with WA6. On a brighter DAC (such as the HDP I used to have), not so much.

 For driver tubes I'd recommend a vintage set of RCA 6DE7's (pre-60's). They're not necessarily bright, but they have better midrange detail and clarity with less bass than their later versions. It's not the easiest find nowadays, though.


----------



## midoo1990

i found the 6cy7 that Dannie recomended and the 6DE7 that you recomended at tubedepot.com .i think i will order both given that they are relatively cheap.but one question,do driver tubes have big impact on sound such as rectifiers?


----------



## K_19

Definitely not as much as rectifiers, but the differences ARE there and noticeable in most cases from my experience of rolling them. Differences are enough that it's worth it to roll and experiment with different ones.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i found the 6cy7 that Dannie recomended and the 6DE7 that you recomended at tubedepot.com .i think i will order both given that they are relatively cheap.but one question,do driver tubes have big impact on sound such as rectifiers?_

 

Drivers have a bigger impact - much more noticeable than changing rectifiers. Though, there seems to be a more noticeable change in combinations - some drivers seem to make changes in rectifiers more noticeable. 

 For example... I especially like the combination of Sylvania 5AR4 / 5U4G ST with Raytheon or Sylvania 6EW7s or 6FD7s. 

 You'll just have to mix and match until you find the sound you prefer.


----------



## jc9394

Is 6CY7 a direct replacement? I never look into this tube before.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is 6CY7 a direct replacement? I never look into this tube before._

 

Yes it's a direct replacement. 

 On a different note, can anyone confirm that some Raytheon tubes are rebranded Tung Sol? I'm trying to track down some Tung Sol 6DE7 and kept coming across people saying that Raytheon look identical and are "probably" rebrands.

 Edit: On topic, does anyone know where to buy Tung Sol 6DE7s? I've searched for hours trying to track down a pair


----------



## Modena

Do I use digital or analog IC from my HDCD to my WA5? It will be a direct connection. 

 Trying to get some better cables but need some basics. Thx in advance.


----------



## Modena

Do I use digital or analog IC from my HDCD to my WA5? It will be a direct connection. 

 Trying to get some better cables but need some basics. Thx in advance.


----------



## Modena

Do I use digital or analog IC from my HDCD to my WA5? It will be a direct connection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Trying to get some better cables but need some basics. Thx in advance.


----------



## El_Doug

you'll be sending an analog signal


----------



## Carmantom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it's a direct replacement. 

 On a different note, can anyone confirm that some Raytheon tubes are rebranded Tung Sol? I'm trying to track down some Tung Sol 6DE7 and kept coming across people saying that Raytheon look identical and are "probably" rebrands.

 Edit: On topic, does anyone know where to buy Tung Sol 6DE7s? I've searched for hours trying to track down a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got some Tung Sol 6de7 from Roy at Radio Electric Supply
 They sell millions of tubes wholesale but have not forgotten the little guys like us. He sells Jack lots of tubes. Roy is the man. Send pm and I will give further info to contact.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carmantom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got some Tung Sol 6de7 from Roy at Radio Electric Supply
 They sell millions of tubes wholesale but have not forgotten the little guys like us. He sells Jack lots of tubes. Roy is the man. Send pm and I will give further info to contact. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Can you please pm me the contact info too? TIA


----------



## Carmantom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Red Jacket Mike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I shipped my WA6SE back to Woo Audio, to repair/replace a blown cap. This was a week ago last Friday; I then left town for a week's vacation. Upon returning this past Saturday, I saw an email message from my shipping shop stating that the amp had been delivered and signed for at Woo Audio. 

 I figured I would be getting it back by now, since the repair should have only taken a very short time. I emailed Woo Audio today, just to check on the repair status; I received a reply a short time ago from Jack, saying that they had not yet received my amp! 

 He asked if I had a tracking number, which I promptly sent; it definitely shows that the amp was delivered and signed for at their address. I hope it isn't lost somewhere; I'm anxious to get it back, and after using it only for a day and a half before the cap blew, I already miss the sound. 

 Hopefully I won't have to deal with UPS and insurance claims; that would mean another month long wait for another amp to be built._

 

Yikes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bummer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure it will all work out.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Latest update on the missing WA6SE: It was located at Woo Audio (they must be very busy there). The blown cap has been replaced, and the amp is now on it's way back to me. 

 Imagine a small business where amplifiers in various stages of assembly, tools, parts and packaging are stacked everywhere in such quantity that a large box containing the two halves of a WA6SE goes unnoticed for several days...I'd say that orders must be coming in rather quickly!


----------



## dannie01

Great to know they have your amp received finally. Enjoy the music when it's back.


----------



## Modena

Sorry for the dups, hiccup on my end. Thanks Doug.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the explanation,I read something similar to this on the net,but I still don't get it.so why do people here get expensive cd players to feed their dacs when it's only function is to act as a transport and has nothing to do with the sound?_

 

Keep in mind some folks skip the DAC route by getting a player with very high end analog circuitry. It isn't the D/A conversion itself that is a big deal, it is how the signal is handled immediately after it becomes analog that matters. External DACs have very good signal path purity and isolation which is where most of the improvement in sound comes from. It's probably more correct to say they prevent sound degradation rather than "improve" sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I need some recomendations for driver tubes.I want tubes that are bright and detailed,I don't care much about the bass because I like what I am hearing from Sophia bass wise.what do you guys recommend?_

 

Sylvania 6FD7 big bottle. Oldest vintage you can find, preferably 1960's or older. If bright is what you want Sylvania will provide it best.

 edit: an addendum to K19's advice: when shopping for the RCA 6DE7 there are two versions, one with a shield divider in the middle and one without. You want the one with the shield. The RCA 6DE7 with shield is a tube everybody should hear in their WA6/SE if you ask me. It is the most neutral and balanced tube I've heard personally.

 You can also get the RCA 6FD7 in a small bottle version (there is a shield version of this too), which sounds similar to the 6DE7 but gives up a bit of balance and PRAT/dynamics to extend the soundstage and improve bass slam a bit.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the driver tubes, try to get a pair of TS 6CY7 on Ebay if you're luck enough, they're inexpensive though and they sounds a little bright to my ears but detail as what you're looking for._

 

I personally would have to counterpoint and disagree with you on this one. I have some of these TS 6CY7s and they sound pretty bad. They are bright, but very unfocused and sloppy sounding. They were the worst tubes I've ever put into my amp by a long shot. Even setting aside my dislike of bright tubes every other aspect of their performance was just unimpressive IMO.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a different note, can anyone confirm that some Raytheon tubes are rebranded Tung Sol? I'm trying to track down some Tung Sol 6DE7 and kept coming across people saying that Raytheon look identical and are "probably" rebrands.

 Edit: On topic, does anyone know where to buy Tung Sol 6DE7s? I've searched for hours trying to track down a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I looked into this at length for a while myself. Apparently they did not make either 6DE7 or 6FD7 of their own so they are rebrands. Takezo confirmed for me all of their 6FD7s are rebrands as well. I was curious what the Raytheon 6DE7 sounded like, since I wasn't terribly impressed by their 6EW7 but knowing TS put their name on one gives me some idea I think.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally would have to counterpoint and disagree with you on this one. I have some of these TS 6CY7s and they sound pretty bad. They are bright, but very unfocused and sloppy sounding. They were the worst tubes I've ever put into my amp by a long shot. Even setting aside my dislike of bright tubes every other aspect of their performance was just unimpressive IMO._

 

You might be correct but the TS 6CY7s in my WA6SE modded are bright and detail for my ears. I have it sitted in the amp for few hrs before listen and I finally dislike the sound they performed. Of course I don't have any critical listen because I swapped it back to the 6FD7s when I found I don't like much of it's sound so I would not disagree your claim on them of *very unfocused and sloppy sounding*. They might be not the worst tubes for the WA6SE but probably or the 6DR7.

 Anyway, the Sophia 274B with GE 6FD7 fat bottled is my favorite combo so far.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I looked into this at length for a while myself. Apparently they did not make either 6DE7 or 6FD7 of their own so they are rebrands. Takezo confirmed for me all of their 6FD7s are rebrands as well. I was curious what the Raytheon 6DE7 sounded like, since I wasn't terribly impressed by their 6EW7 but knowing TS put their name on one gives me some idea I think._

 

Thanks for confirming. I have some RCA 6DE7s coming and hopefully some TSs sometime soon. I haven't read good things about the Raytheon 6EW7s that came with my amp so I'm eager to start rolling.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for confirming. I have some RCA 6DE7s coming and hopefully some TSs sometime soon. I haven't read good things about the Raytheon 6EW7s that came with my amp so I'm eager to start rolling._

 

The Raytheons do have their good points. I rolled them back into the amp the other day for some additional impressions actually. The clarity and inner detail is quite good with the right rectifier, but I'm not fond of their tonal balance. Too lean with too little bass for my tastes. They'll do bass when the music really asks for it but the presentation always feels treble heavy with these tubes IMO. I didn't think they had any major dips or peaks in response though which was good. A different experience to be sure from the 6FD7s I've become used to, but what kills it is a lack of emotion and involvement that makes them rather boring to listen to. I'm thinking I need to get some RCA 6EW7s to see if this lack of PRAT is characteristic of this tube or if it is just the Raytheons shortcoming.

 You'll like the RCA 6DE7s so long as you are fine with a more intimate soundstage, hopefully you got ones with the shield divider. I'm looking forward to rolling mine back in for a while soon. My previous writeups on my tubes were kind of a quickfire sort of thing. Now I'm spending a week or so with each one to see what else I notice and get a better sense of their differences.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I'm thinking I need to get some RCA 6EW7s to see if this lack of PRAT is characteristic of this tube or if it is just the Raytheons shortcoming.

 You'll like the RCA 6DE7s so long as you are fine with a more intimate soundstage, hopefully you got ones with the shield divider. I'm looking forward to rolling mine back in for a while soon. My previous writeups on my tubes were kind of a quickfire sort of thing. Now I'm spending a week or so with each one to see what else I notice and get a better sense of their differences._

 

Yes the Raythoeons are like the GEs, ok but still lacking. 

 The best combo imo is the EML 5U4G mesh (redesigned) and the RCA 6EW7 BB silver top, tipped mid to early 60s. The RCAs are also good with the Princess.
 The RCA should give you what you want. 
 Don't think Jack has any but you may get lucky on ebay as I did. Just make sure you buy from a very good seller and make sure of what he/she is selling.

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

An interesting side effect of pursuing nothing but tubes that suit the K701: every other headphone I own sounds pretty terrible with the WA6 now that I've bothered to try them out with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course I haven't tried my other headphones with the RCA blackplate 6fd7 or my pair of 6de7s yet so the story isn't totally written. Honestly for the most part I don't care that much since the K701 is my best headphone, but I'm quite fond of my Yuin G1As and was hoping they would synergize with the Woo. Apparently not. I always thought they sounded great on my SS amp, but the trouble is I've gotten so used to the instrument separation and air between notes the WA6 offers that my SS amp just sounds congested and closed in now, and consequently unenjoyable. 

 A pair of Sylvanias should do the trick for the G1s.


----------



## Groundzero

Just put in my RCA 6ed7s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only been listening for about a hour but I can already say that I like the increased impact and bass.


----------



## Carmantom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you please pm me the contact info too? TIA_

 

Sorry! I missed your post. I have sent you the info via pm.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You can order directly from their website as well. I've been quite specific about what I want in the comments section and they will do their best to find what you want.


----------



## Modena

Can I make a 25ft run on 10g cable with my WA5? It's either that or over the carpet at 14ft.


----------



## TheWuss

just posting to confirm some earlier descriptions.
 i've had some time to listen to the rca skinny bottle 6fd7 and 6de7, both similar vintage ,with divider shield.
 they look nearly identical, and sound nearly identical.
 i'm picking up just a hint brighter treble from the 6fd7, but that's the only difference my ears can hear.
 anyone still looking for the rca 6de7 w/ divider shield may want to consider the 6fd7 w/ divider shield as an acceptable substitute - ??


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheWuss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just posting to confirm some earlier descriptions.
 i've had some time to listen to the rca skinny bottle 6fd7 and 6de7, both similar vintage ,with divider shield.
 they look nearly identical, and sound nearly identical.
 i'm picking up just a hint brighter treble from the 6fd7, but that's the only difference my ears can hear.
 anyone still looking for the rca 6de7 w/ divider shield may want to consider the 6fd7 w/ divider shield as an acceptable substitute - ??_

 

I didn't find the differences that great at first either, but they are there. It is the fat bottle 6fd7 that is noticeably different, you should have an easier time differentiating that one. There is a bit of a peak in the lower treble as you note, and I've found the 6fd7s consistently have a small response bump in the mid bass/lower midrange too that makes them sound a tad bit thicker down there. They also have a bit more bass drive, but less speed and control. If I were to give a single sentence summary I'd say the 6fd7 is more "fun" where as the 6de7 is more accurate. I hear better inner detail and much more texture on the 6de7s. The leading edges are clear as day, where as the 6fd7 glosses this stuff over a bit to focus on macrodynamics. All of these differences are subtle though. The fat bottle 6fd7 has the same characateristics only "more so" for the most part. It clearly moves away from a fast clean sound in favor of something big, airy and more lush. Overall I'd agree with you that the small bottle 6fd7 can serve as a good substitute for the 6de7 in a pinch. They are not all that different for the most part.

 You didn't notice a difference in soundstage at all? Perhaps this is headphone dependent, but I could tell a clear difference. It isn't a big one, but the outer soundstage extends further on the 6fd7 and the entire soundstage is pulled slightly further out in general. I find the soundstage of the 6de7 to be too closed in personally.


----------



## midoo1990

I wish I could listen to my wa6 and hd650 but i packed all my gear and put them in the closet.I spent too much time listening to them for 4-5 days that it distracted me from my studying so I put them away in their box aBd will listen to them again in 1.5 month after I finish my university exams.I will also order bunch of tubes but also in summer
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I didn't even continue the burn in


----------



## Xcalibur255

You could listen to something soothing or classical *while* you study.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it distracted me from my studying so I put them away in their box aBd will listen to them again in 1.5 month after I finish my university exams._

 

1.5 months is a long time midoo - I admire your resolve. You deserve to do well in your exams if you are prepared to whack your rig in the closet for that length of time!

 Good luck


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish I could listen to my wa6 and hd650 but i packed all my gear and put them in the closet.I spent too much time listening to them for 4-5 days that it distracted me from my studying so I put them away in their box aBd will listen to them again in 1.5 month after I finish my university exams.I will also order bunch of tubes but also in summer
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I didn't even continue the burn in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You are very well disiplined, midoo1990. And you will be rewarded by knowing that you have studied for your exams without undue distractions AND after your exams you will be in for a returned treat when you rediscover your WooAudio amp again. Well done! And good luck on your exams.


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish I could listen to my wa6 and hd650 but i packed all my gear and put them in the closet.I spent too much time listening to them for 4-5 days that it distracted me from my studying so I put them away in their box aBd will listen to them again in 1.5 month after I finish my university exams.I will also order bunch of tubes but also in summer
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I didn't even continue the burn in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I also listen to Jazz or music with no vocals in it while I study. But sometimes it distracts me too much. So I think it was a good decision for you to put them away and concentrate on studying!


----------



## midoo1990

Yes,university is definety more important and I can do whatever I want in summer,but right now my future is what counts


----------



## dannie01

A very nice pic, hifidk.


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A very nice pic, hifidk._

 

Thank you! I tried my best. But there wasn't enough lighting so the picture has some noise.


----------



## midoo1990

Yes very nice pic.


----------



## DoingOK

I had a fellow forum member on another site make me some nice wood 'end plates' for my listening room gear. I was thoroughly impressed with his craftsmanship pictured below:







 He did a great job so I asked him to make some pieces for my WA6. I can't claim any sonic benefits, but aesthetically I think the new wood pieces will fit in nicely with my man cave. 

 Progress pics so far. I should get them in a few days after he drills the final holes. He is also making a volume knob for me. I thought you guys might be interested in something a little different:


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Wouldn't those woody trap heats...? But it is awesome though..


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't those woody trap heats...? But it is awesome though.._

 

If they do, it'll be minimal. I've run my amplifier for a few hours and barely notice any heat in the those cover areas. I'll keep an eye on it though. I have a 20 year background in Nuclear Engineering with an emphasis on thermodynamics and heat transfer.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Sounds great. Would you consider running mass order or production for WA6 and WA6SE owners....


----------



## Towert7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If they do, it'll be minimal. I've run my amplifier for a few hours and barely notice any heat in the those cover areas. I'll keep an eye on it though. I have a 20 year background in Nuclear Engineering with an emphasis on thermodynamics and heat transfer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just need to be careful around the tubes. Some of them get hot.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Towert7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just need to be careful around the tubes. Some of them get hot._

 

I agree............I'll see how warm it gets in that area.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a fellow forum member on another site make me some nice wood 'end plates' for my listening room gear. I was thoroughly impressed with his craftsmanship pictured below:
 <snip>
 He did a great job so I asked him to make some pieces for my WA6. I can't claim any sonic benefits, but aesthetically I think the new wood pieces will fit in nicely with my man cave. 

 Progress pics so far. I should get them in a few days after he drills the final holes. He is also making a volume knob for me. I thought you guys might be interested in something a little different:
 <snip>_

 

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Please take a picture of the interior before you replace the wooden top lid. Thanks!


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome, awesome, awesome. Please take a picture of the interior before you replace the wooden top lid. Thanks!_

 

X 2, it looks marvelous.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Thats a really cool concept and I like your creativity to take something and add your own personal touch to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having owned a few Woo amps though, I know that they heavily rely on the thermal mass of the steel chassis to dissipate heat, which means they do get quite hot if left running for extended times. The tubes are also located very close to the transformer box, so be careful that the wood doesn't overheat, especially with bigger rectifiers like Sophia Princess.


----------



## DoingOK

What interior pic are you guys referring to? The plate around the tubes is just a flat plate that doesn't cover anything except the top of the lower case. The other square cover just sits over the transformer. I'll take a pic of everything as it sits prior to reassembling. Thanks for the compliments fellas. I hope it looks good along with sounding good. If it gets too hot, I'll dump the wood pieces. They were not expensive to get made.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very sharp looking. What species of wood is it? Cherrywood, or possibly a rosewood?


----------



## St3ve

Really looking forward to seeing a pic of it all assembled DoingOk. It looks like really nice work from your woodworking friend.


----------



## DoingOK

Thanks fellas. I chose 'bloodwood' to use with the amp. I was going to use bubinga, but I like the red tones of bloodwood.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats a really cool concept and I like your creativity to take something and add your own personal touch to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having owned a few Woo amps though, I know that they heavily rely on the thermal mass of the steel chassis to dissipate heat, which means they do get quite hot if left running for extended times. The tubes are also located very close to the transformer box, so be careful that the wood doesn't overheat, especially with bigger rectifiers like Sophia Princess._

 

I agree about the "dissipate heat".

 I have been breaking in my WA5LE (8 hours on 4 hours off) and yes my amp with the Treasure 300B and the Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7G can really warm up the amp. However what I have found is that by using a small fan and blowing the air at my rack (not my amp) keeps the amp cooler, or I have a portable air conditioner in my man cave and if I set the temp at 72 the amp stays nice and cool. PSU with 2 EML (new redesigned) 5U4G rectifiers don't seem to be a problem with heat.


----------



## superjohny

hi guys, just got a question.

 i dun have any knowledge about the tube and i got totally confused with so many types.....

 but in the end what i want to know is that

 power tube:6F8G

 driver tube:6FG7/6FQ7(a pair 6FG7 or a pair of 6FQ7， or has to be 1 of them each)

 Rectifier: EML 5u4g mesh plate

 so basically the above was a good combo for WA22?


----------



## superjohny

hi guys, just got a question.

 i dun have any knowledge about the tube and i got totally confused with so many types.....

 but in the end what i want to know is that

 power tube:6F8G

 driver tube:6FG7/6FQ7(a pair 6FG7 or a pair of 6FQ7， or has to be 1 of them each)

 Rectifier: EML 5u4g mesh plate

 so basically the above was a good combo for WA22?


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree about the "dissipate heat".

 I have been breaking in my WA5LE (8 hours on 4 hours off) and yes my amp with the Treasure 300B and the Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7G can really warm up the amp. However what I have found is that by using a small fan and blowing the air at my rack (not my amp) keeps the amp cooler, or I have a portable air conditioner in my man cave and if I set the temp at 72 the amp stays nice and cool. PSU with 2 EML (new redesigned) 5U4G rectifiers don't seem to be a problem with heat._

 

Thats kind of funny because for me, the PSU is what gets hotter than the AMP portion that is running on EML 300B mesh tubes. The part that gets hot is the front transformer box of the PSU. Is that similar with you?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *superjohny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys, just got a question.

 i dun have any knowledge about the tube and i got totally confused with so many types.....

 but in the end what i want to know is that

 power tube:6F8G

 driver tube:6FG7/6FQ7(a pair 6FG7 or a pair of 6FQ7， or has to be 1 of them each)

 Rectifier: EML 5u4g mesh plate

 so basically the above was a good combo for WA22?_

 

I think you have the driver and power tubes mixed up. I'm currently using a pair of NU 6F8G roundplates for my drivers. My power tubes are Tung-Sol 7236s, and my rectifier is an EML 5U4G mesh (very close to what you proposed). BTW I'm using the D7000s.

 I think this setup sounds excellent for the WA22, and I would be hard pressed to improve upon it. I do want to experiment with different driver tubes though, like some of the higher-end 6SN7s.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 I also listen to Jazz or music with no vocals in it while I study. But sometimes it distracts me too much. So I think it was a good decision for you to put them away and concentrate on studying!_

 

Are you using 6EW7 with JH13? I found the 6FD7 is way too much gain with JH13.

 Woohoo, my "Headphoneus Supremus" status, 1500 posts...


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using 6EW7 with JH13? I found the 6FD7 is way too much gain with JH13.

 Woohoo, my "Headphoneus Supremus" status, 1500 posts..._

 

Yes, I am using 6EW7 with JH13. I get a slight hum but not really bothersome. I tried 6DE7 but I prefer 6EW7.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hifidk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I am using 6EW7 with JH13. I get a slight hum but not really bothersome. I tried 6DE7 but I prefer 6EW7._

 

Same here, there is slight hum. I guess it is from the transformer. I tried 3 different pairs, all have the slight hum.


----------



## hifidk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, there is slight hum. I guess it is from the transformer. I tried 3 different pairs, all have the slight hum._

 

It doesn't bother me much and I get less hum when volume pot is below 9 o'clock. Since I can control volume from Grace, it isn't really bad at all.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you have the driver and power tubes mixed up. I'm currently using a pair of NU 6F8G roundplates for my drivers. My power tubes are Tung-Sol 7236s, and my rectifier is an EML 5U4G mesh (very close to what you proposed). BTW I'm using the D7000s.

 I think this setup sounds excellent for the WA22, and I would be hard pressed to improve upon it. I do want to experiment with different driver tubes though, like some of the higher-end 6SN7s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I am currently using the EML 5U4G solid plate rectifier in my WA22 (thank you, Seamaster) and now there is virtually no hum whatsoever. It's enormous size certainly makes for an impressive looking amp as well! The EML is the only high-end rectifier that I've placed in the WA22. Others have been run-of-the-mill NOS like the Tung-sol 5U4G and the 5R4G potato masher. I wish I could get my hands on some of those NU 6F8Gs drivers but those are currently beyond my financial grasp.


----------



## Groundzero

Hit about 40hrs on my rca 6de7s and one of them is starting to hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I switched them out with a different pair to make sure it was the tube. As a replacement I'm still trying to track down some tung sols. Does anyone know where to get a pair? I've tried just about every site on the tube sticky thread and ebay stores


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Others have been run-of-the-mill NOS like the Tung-sol 5U4G and the 5R4G potato masher._

 

Potato masher?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hit about 40hrs on my rca 6de7s and one of them is starting to hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I switched them out with a different pair to make sure it was the tube. As a replacement I'm still trying to track down some tung sols. Does anyone know where to get a pair? I've tried just about every site on the tube sticky thread and ebay stores 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've yet to see another pair pop up since I bought mine. They seem to be one of the de facto tubes for the WA6 so owners have bought them up, and the sales are rare enough that sellers don't want to really track down more given how little they cost. Just my angle on it anyway.

 That is a shame about the hiss. I decided to burn in all my tubes, including the ones I don't plan to use right now, for about 50 hours just to guard against this sort of thing. If this were to happen to my black plates I'd be ticked because I've had zero luck finding a backup pair. I would dearly love a backup pair so I can actually USE one of them with some peace of mind.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've yet to see another pair pop up since I bought mine. They seem to be one of the de facto tubes for the WA6 so owners have bought them up, and the sales are rare enough that sellers don't want to really track down more given how little they cost. Just my angle on it anyway.

 That is a shame about the hiss. I decided to burn in all my tubes, including the ones I don't plan to use right now, for about 50 hours just to guard against this sort of thing. If this were to happen to my black plates I'd be ticked because I've had zero luck finding a backup pair. I would dearly love a backup pair so I can actually USE one of them with some peace of mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Geez i didn't realize they were so hard to find. The tube that is going bad is a black plate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'll go back through the list and hit Google some more. Do you think Jack would have any?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Geez i didn't realize they were so hard to find. The tube that is going bad is a black plate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'll go back through the list and hit Google some more. Do you think Jack would have any?_

 

Actually, by black plate I mean a pair of 6FD7 big bottles I have with two black plates. Most of the 6FD7s (and the 6DE7s too) have a small black plate and a large gray plate. Both of the plates in this tube are black, with the large plate being crossed shaped instead of flat. They are the best sounding drive tubes I've found so I'm saving them for when I eventually own the Beyer T1s. I would actually use my 1960 RCA 6DE7s full time right now if the soundstage weren't so small. They are amazing in every other aspect, but I can't completely live with the claustrophobic soundstage full time sadly.

 I would say the best bet is vacuumtubes.net for replacement 6DE7s. Their service is great, but in my experience so far they don't really have the old vintages. This may not be important to you, but I've found I consistently prefer the sound of the older tubes (1960 or older). The newer ones all sound peaky in the lower treble with less inner detail and clarity. Some people prefer the newer ones though..... we all have different ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got my RCAs from Brent Jessee Recording, but he is out of them now.

 On a closely related note, have any Woo owners tried the Dumont 6DE7s? These appear to use a different plate structure than either RCA or Sylvania so I am curious. I have not gotten to see a Raytheon or Tung-Sol 6DE7 so perhaps the Dumont could still be re-brand but it got me curious.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Potato masher? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

These 5R4WGA rectifiers (also called the potato masher) were built for military use and can withstand quite a bit of force from shock waves produced by bomb blasts--indirectly of course.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These 5R4WGA rectifiers (also called the potato masher) were built for military use and can withstand quite a bit of force from shock waves produced by bomb blasts--indirectly of course.




_

 

Ahhh. Thanks for explaining. The plates look the same as my 5R4GY. I've noticed the Shuguang and Full Note 274B tubes have plates which look like this too, but the Sophia and EML 274B tubes do not. I find all of this stuff very interesting.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, by black plate I mean a pair of 6FD7 big bottles I have with two black plates. Most of the 6FD7s (and the 6DE7s too) have a small black plate and a large gray plate. Both of the plates in this tube are black, with the large plate being crossed shaped instead of flat. They are the best sounding drive tubes I've found so I'm saving them for when I eventually own the Beyer T1s. I would actually use my 1960 RCA 6DE7s full time right now if the soundstage weren't so small. They are amazing in every other aspect, but I can't completely live with the claustrophobic soundstage full time sadly.

 I would say the best bet is vacuumtubes.net for replacement 6DE7s. Their service is great, but in my experience so far they don't really have the old vintages. This may not be important to you, but I've found I consistently prefer the sound of the older tubes (1960 or older). The newer ones all sound peaky in the lower treble with less inner detail and clarity. Some people prefer the newer ones though..... we all have different ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got my RCAs from Brent Jessee Recording, but he is out of them now.

 On a closely related note, have any Woo owners tried the Dumont 6DE7s? These appear to use a different plate structure than either RCA or Sylvania so I am curious. I have not gotten to see a Raytheon or Tung-Sol 6DE7 so perhaps the Dumont could still be re-brand but it got me curious._

 

Emailed half a dozen places about TS and RCA 6DE7s, and for the hell of it, asked specifically for 6FD7s big bottle with 2 large black plates. Got a response 5mins later from a guy on his blackberry saying he as them all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If he has more than one pair of the 6fd7s (i'm getting some) I'll PM you the source


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I think they are called potato mashers because they look like the WWII German hand grenades that looked like potato mashers?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think they are called potato mashers because they look like the WWII German hand grenades that looked like potato mashers?_

 

By gosh, you're right! I wondered about that myself. Yah learn sompting every day. Thanks.

_*Some grenade designs were made to be thrown longer distances. The German "potato-masher" grenade had a long wooden handle that extended its range by fifty percent. The potato-masher was fired by a friction igniter in the head, which was activated by a pull string threaded through the hollow handle. Immediately before throwing the grenade, the soldier pulled a small porcelain ball attached to a string attached to the friction igniter. This started the time fuse which fired the detonator after a delay. The potato-masher is often incorrectly thought to have had an impact fuse. It did not, but the superficially similar British stick grenade design of 1908 did.

*_


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Emailed half a dozen places about TS and RCA 6DE7s, and for the hell of it, asked specifically for 6FD7s big bottle with 2 large black plates. Got a response 5mins later from a guy on his blackberry saying he as them all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If he has more than one pair of the 6fd7s (i'm getting some) I'll PM you the source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. If he matches his pairs I'll probably get my backup pair assuming he has enough.

 I suppose it may be OCD on my part...... after all unless something goes wrong these tubes should last for years under normal use. Jack quotes the drive tubes as lasting 9000 hours in his amps, which at about 2 hours a day is over 10 years. Still, I just don't want to use my best tubes full time without knowing I can replace them with something equally as good if something happens. I guess a person could always go the adapter route and use 6SN7s but the prices on those keep climbing higher and higher.....


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. If he matches his pairs I'll probably get my backup pair assuming he has enough.

 I suppose it may be OCD on my part...... after all unless something goes wrong these tubes should last for years under normal use. Jack quotes the drive tubes as lasting 9000 hours in his amps, which at about 2 hours a day is over 10 years. Still, I just don't want to use my best tubes full time without knowing I can replace them with something equally as good if something happens. I guess a person could always go the adapter route and use 6SN7s but the prices on those keep climbing higher and higher....._

 

Are 6SN7s similar to 6FD7s? I haven't seen a review of them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are 6SN7s similar to 6FD7s? I haven't seen a review of them._

 

The 6SN7 isn't a drop in replacement in the WA6 or 6SE. You have to use a socket and rewire adapter to use one. I haven't personally heard one either so I can't compare, but drawing from advice I've been given I would expect to hear something similar to the 6EW7 only without the traits I don't like about that tube. Mainly a very smooth and refined sound with a focus on huge soundstage and air rather than fast dynamics or punch. It is a very well known and used tube in the audiophile world. Lots of high end amp designs use this tube so they are both in demand and expensive. On the other side, there are new production tubes around too (which everybody agrees don't sound as good as the NOS tubes) so the 6SN7 does not face a dwindling supply like the dual triodes the Woo6/SE uses.

 One of the neat things about the 6FD7 is that it borrows many of the good aspects of the 6DE7 and 6EW7 (which are basically the two main tubes for these amps catering to people who prefer either an upfront or laid back sound) and marries them well. The bad part is that while it is good at most things it is truly excellent at nothing save soundstage depth on the big bottles. The 6DE7s do detail and speed better, and the 6EW7 does an open airy sound better (only in some ways IMO), but the 6FD7 sits in the middle as a nice compromise with a few unique traits of its own here and there. The rare black plate 6FD7 turns this on its ear a bit, matching the 6DE7 is quite a few ways from what I remember of my initial listening session. It also eliminates the frustrating uneven frequency response that plagues the newer 6FD7 tubes (mid bass and low treble peaks). I prefer the neutral tonal balance the 6DE7 and black plate 6FD7 have save for a bit more energy at the top and bottom end in the case of the latter. I'm doing extended break-in on my small bottle 6FD7s right now and after that I'll be doing the same for the big bottle black plates (saved the best for last). I really want to know if my initial impressions hold true. If they don't I'll ramble about it in another post for a bit. 

 Of course this is all just my opinion and should be taken as such. You could hear something very different from what my ears tell me. I have a tendency to write with an air of "authority" without realizing it so I don't want to come off as though I think I'm some kind of expert here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do think I have a pretty sharp ear for subtle details though, which is a double-edged sword if ever there was one.


----------



## Groundzero

Thanks for the detailed reply, I really appreciate your insight. I listen to a lot of piano which is making finding the right tubes a little complicated. I love the dynamics and lushness of 6DE7s, but they sound almost artificial in a way. The warmth and airiness of 6EW7s dispel this, but lack the deep intoxicating lows. I'm hoping 6FD7 (or possibly 6SN7s) will provide a happy medium. I look forward to your results and rambling


----------



## Xcalibur255

I enjoy piano a lot as well. The only thing I thought the 6DE7 didn't do justice too in that regard was note decay, especially on sustained notes. They drop off too quickly, killing the ambiance. On the plus side, the leading edge of the hammer strike, especially on the low notes, was fantastic. Reproduction of the texture of low notes was excellent too, so more good than bad overall. I thought the 6EW7 made piano sound lifeless. There was just no power in the notes at all. The 6FD7 does strike a really nice balance and I think you'll be pleased, but the slightly softer attack on the low notes and transients take a little bit of the realism from the performance IMO. I'm speaking of the run of the mill black/gray plate 6FD7 here. I have really high hopes for the black plates and piano music. I only had one demo track with piano when I listened to them the first time but I recall being pleased with what I heard.

 What I personally value most when listening to instrumental music is the ability to make you forget you are listening to a recording. Most of my tubes can't do this. The 6DE7 comes closest because it is the "fastest" of the dual triodes. The other thing I must have is a sense of large space and air between notes, making the performance sound expansive. I love long note decays. Trouble is I usually have to pick one or the other because nothing ever seems to be able to give me both, and anymore I can't decide which I care about more. A person can always roll tubes and take turns appreciating one aspect or the other I guess.

 edit: groundzero, I see you are using a WA6SE. I thought I should mention in case you didn't already know that the 6FD7 tube isn't technically safe to use in your amp without modification. Jack only recommends running them in the regular WA6. It's unclear whether the new SEs have been redesigned to get around this issue (it is a single capacitor that needs to be replaced with a higher rated version, simple fix really) but Jack still seems to be recommending that SE owners not use the 6FD7 tubes because it could harm the amp over a long period of time.


----------



## Groundzero

Thanks for that tidbit of info, I was unaware 6fd7s are unsafe. I emailed Jack asking about it in hopes that they were changed. 

 Related to the topic, I found this quote from an old wa6se thread and it got me thinking: 

 "but my favorite these days has to be the 6cs7. it requires
 a simple adapter and works fine at 200+ volts. the tone
 is as sweet as 6922 but with an even more intimate texture,
 soundstage and timbre, especially for acoustic instruments.
 acoustic guitar, violin and piano sound great with the 6cs7."

 I may have to get the new cap and some adapters


----------



## Groundzero

This is the response from Jack:

 "Due to popular demand, we will make 6FD7 compatible with the WA6-SE in
 future shipment, effective today.

 Note that this tube has high gain so you may hear some faint noise/hum.

 Thanks
 Jack"

 So good news for people who haven't invested in a Woo yet


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the response from Jack:

 "Due to popular demand, we will make 6FD7 compatible with the WA6-SE in
 future shipment, effective today.

 Note that this tube has high gain so you may hear some faint noise/hum.

 Thanks
 Jack"

 So good news for people who haven't invested in a Woo yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool !!! I am expecting my WA6SE within 10 days....Hope mine will have this option done on it...

 By the way, how long last the Sophia Princess tube ??

 Denys


----------



## flaming_june

woo 6 or 6 se? that is the question when you're on a budget


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool !!! I am expecting my WA6SE within 10 days....Hope mine will have this option done on it...

 By the way, how long last the Sophia Princess tube ??

 Denys_

 

It says 5000hrs on the Woo site, but people seem to be having them fail early, lately.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It says 5000hrs on the Woo site, but people seem to be having them fail early, lately._

 

My first SP274B died in less than 500 hours and second tube turned smoke color after 150 hours. I would go for EML tubes next.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My first SP274B died in less than 500 hours and second tube turned smoke color after 150 hours. I would go for EML tubes next._

 

Did your second tube die soon after or was it just a color change? Mine is around 250hrs and lightly smoke colored, but I haven't herd any change in the sound quality. Though I thought I remember reading that some darkening is normal?


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Groundzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the response from Jack:

 "Due to popular demand, we will make 6FD7 compatible with the WA6-SE in
 future shipment, effective today.

 Note that this tube has high gain so you may hear some faint noise/hum.

 Thanks
 Jack"_

 

About time! I was heartbroken about not being able to use 6FD7 with my old WA6SE... so much so that I sold it. IMO the 6EW7s and 6DE7s simply couldn't compete.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About time! I was heartbroken about not being able to use 6FD7 with my old WA6SE... so much so that I sold it. IMO the 6EW7s and 6DE7s simply couldn't compete._

 

Here all this time I was thinking you where afraid that you left the 6FD7 in your amp to long damaged the amp and got rid of it, at least from what you said.

 I tried the 6FD7 in my WA6SE max for about 60 seconds, and shut down my amp. Got some RCA 6EW7 BB, silver top, tipped, circa 1963 along with a EML 274B solid plate and never could come close to the sound with any other combo.

 And even now with the new WA6SE being compatible with the 6FD7 except for "you may hear some faint noise/hum." That's the last thing I want from my Amp. Also being a high gain tube that may affect the treble and making the sound to bright.

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And even now with the new WA6SE being compatible with the 6FD7 except for "you may hear some faint noise/hum." That's the last thing I want from my Amp. Also being a high gain tube that may affect the treble and making the sound to bright.

 ss_

 

For the record, I've had 5 different pairs of 6FD7s in my amp and none of them exhibited any hum or buzz. The stock pair has microphonics issues, but no steady buzzing. The other 4 are dead silent at all times. The newer vintage 6FD7 tubes are a little brighter than a 6DE7, mostly in the 3-4Khz range to my ears, but I believe it is a characteristic of this tubes FQ rather than a side effect of the high Mu factor. My black plate 6FD7 tubes don't exhibit this response peak in the treble which offers some proof of this. 

 I wonder if Jack is willing to help current 6SE owners make their amp compatible, but I doubt it. He is so busy as is and probably doesn't want to open the flood gates to such a situation.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the record, I've had 5 different pairs of 6FD7s in my amp and none of them exhibited any hum or buzz. The stock pair has microphonics issues, but no steady buzzing. The other 4 are dead silent at all times. The newer vintage 6FD7 tubes are a little brighter than a 6DE7, mostly in the 3-4Khz range to my ears, but I believe it is a characteristic of this tubes FQ rather than a side effect of the high Mu factor. My black plate 6FD7 tubes don't exhibit this response peak in the treble which offers some proof of this. _

 

Yes I understand that the WA6 doesn't have much if any problem with the 6ED7s, but we are talking about the WA6SE different amp different story. 
 The WA6SE doesn't need a higher gain tube, as were the WA6 may enjoy the higher gain to increase the volume. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Sorry, double post.


----------



## dannie01

The 6FD7 and 274B is always the best combo of my ex-WA6SE (modded), none of other power tubes could compete but with only slightly hiss/hum in a very high volume. Of course I can never need that kind of high volume during my listen, it would hiss/hum when the knob hits about in the 2-3 o'clock position.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 6FD7 and 274B is always the best combo of my ex-WA6SE (modded),_

 

What amp do you have know?

  Quote:


 none of other power tubes could compete but with only slightly hiss/hum in a very high volume. Of course I can never need that kind of high volume during my listen, it would hiss/hum when the knob hits about in the 2-3 o'clock position. 
 

That is one feature I like about my new Woo, the right and left adjustable line noise attenuators. No hum/hiss just silence at 100% volume. 

 ss


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if Jack is willing to help current 6SE owners make their amp compatible, but I doubt it. He is so busy as is and probably doesn't want to open the flood gates to such a situation._

 

As long as he charges enough for the update, (to make it worth his time) it makes good business scene to me,,and it also might give some future buyers some piece of mind knowing that if they want that,,, little bit more. They can send their amp back and get it updated..........Many CDP manufactures will do up dates to there products,, Wadia comes to mind.

 I just bought a Wa 22 from a member here this morning,,I can't wait to join the Woo amp owners in enjoying the music ""Woo style"". I am interested in the differences between my re-built Singlepower Balanced Extreme and the Woo Wa 22. ,, I am also on the list for the next run of Craigs... eddiecurrent Balancing Act. I am looking for a combination amp and headphone to go with my Meridian 808.2i CDP. Spending a fortune but having fun,,I will have enough gear soon to host my own meet..LOL


----------



## dannie01

I'm so jealous for what you'll be owned for your entire system, both are made by praised the very best by reputable sellers (except Singlepower 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). The Maridian 808.2i is also a very nice CDP (expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). If you have your EC Balancing Act arrived, please share your impression between this amp to the WA22 that would appreciate, thanks.

 Oh, btw, congrats on the purchase of a WA22 and pre-welcome to the club.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Just an update on my WA6SE with the blown capacitor: It was, as I posted earlier, briefly lost when returned to Woo Audio for repair, but then it was located, fixed, and returned to me.

 I never had much chance to listen to it earlier, since I originaly had it for only a day and a half before the cap blew; now that I've had it back for a week, i've been playing it 8 hours on, 2-3 hours off to burn everything in. It sounds fantastic. I purchased it totally stock, except for the Sophia.

 My favorite recordings (The Jennifer Warnes Gold CD remasters of Famous Blue Raincoat and The Hunter, and any of Mark Knopfler's solo recordings) sound better than I've ever heard them, through speakers or phones. And I'm also enjoying the Beatles' mono remasters.

 With my Grados in the low impedance jack, I don't need the volume any higher than 10 o'clock, and with the HD650s in the high impedance jack, 9 o'clock is plenty.

 The amp is totally silent between tracks, even at max volume, and after 8 hours of use, it's only a little warm, not hot. From what I've read here, after some break-in time, things should improve a bit more (I have about 90 hours on the amp with the Sophia now) so I'm looking forward to some great listening.


----------



## dannie01

Congrats on what you've heard with your repaired WA6SE, RJM. For the burn-in, even in stock component, 200+ hrs will starts to make it really sings, you will find the real performance of it like what most of us experienced here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you like Jennifer Warnes, try Patricia Barber's, I think you'll love it.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Thanks-I do have one Patricia Barber recording-Companion. The upright bass on 'Use Me' sounds phenomenal through the Woo.

 I'll be rediscovering a lot of my recordings in the next couple of weeks, especially since I'm scheduled for hernia surgery this coming Wednesday, and will be confined to a recliner near my headphone rig for awhile . . .


----------



## dannie01

Hope you get well soon from your surgery then back to you music listening, with best wishes.

 BTW, you should try the "Modern Cool" if you feel the bass of "Use Me" of Companion is phenomenal, I'd think you'll like this album much more and experience more powerful bass, sounds awesome with my Beta 22 and HD800. I'm still waiting to my WA22 arrive and try it out through the Linn Akurate DS. Still no message from Jack when it will be shipped actually that told it should be ready to ship in the last week. But no hurry, just make sure he has sufficient time to install and test the amp well before ship.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if Jack is willing to help current 6SE owners make their amp compatible, but I doubt it. He is so busy as is and probably doesn't want to open the flood gates to such a situation._

 

I asked him about this yesterday in response to new amps being compatible. No reply yet, but then again it is Sunday so I'm not surprised. Hopefully he reads this thread and sees the response 6fd7s brought.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here all this time I was thinking you where afraid that you left the 6FD7 in your amp to long damaged the amp and got rid of it, at least from what you said._

 

That was a contributing factor, as well. But having heard what the 6FD7s could do, I could no longer settle for 6EW7/6DE7 sound. My immediate reaction on switching in the Sylvania large-bottle 6FD7s and EML 5U4G Mesh were "Omg! This is the sound I've been looking for!". And then the loud pops started 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The WA6SE I always found to be great for overall refinement, conveying of subtle nuances, and tone. But lacked the last word in dynamic slam and treble shimmer. The 6FD7's I tried largely remedied that lack. Although granted I only had about 30mins of listening time with them


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Covenant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was a contributing factor, as well. But having heard what the 6FD7s could do, I could no longer settle for 6EW7/6DE7 sound. My immediate reaction on switching in the Sylvania large-bottle 6FD7s and EML 5U4G Mesh were "Omg! This is the sound I've been looking for!". And then the loud pops started 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The WA6SE I always found to be great for overall refinement, conveying of subtle nuances, and tone. But lacked the last word in dynamic slam and treble shimmer. The 6FD7's I tried largely remedied that lack. Although granted I only had about 30mins of listening time with them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes everybody has there own preferences, and I got very close to what you are saying about dynamic slam and treble shimmer, along with the subtle nuances with my WA6SE and HD800. 
 Actually that is what prompted me to go with a WA5LE, every time I would swap tubes (I must have 35 tubes) I would hear something I liked but never could put that sound all in one combo of tubes. 
 With the WA5LE everything is there and more, but at a hefty price. I now have about 325 hours on the WA5LE, but with the VCaps, black gates and other components I still have a long way to go before this amp is broken-in.

 ss


----------



## Denys

Hi everyone.

 Just received this email today...

 Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.

 A package will ship to you on 04/19/2010 via U.S. Postal Service to the
 following address:

 Denys 
 Montreal
 CANADA

 Shipping item(s):
 WA6-SE headphone amplifier
 Sophia 274B
 6EW7 pair

 Hope it won't be withheld at the borders too long!!!

 Instead of Blackgates, I will put Mundorf caps.....but later on....anyway.. I can't wait....

 Denys


----------



## Xcalibur255

Speaking of 6FD7s.... rolled the coveted black plates back into the amp. They are just as good as I remember. It is a bit of a conflict for me really, because they are the best sounding tube I have, but not necessarily for the headphones I am currently using strange as that may sound. I would describe the treble of these tubes as extended and natural, but the K701 is a bright headphone so the combo gets a little in your face on some recordings. I've deliberately favored dark sounding tubes to tame the K701 for the most part. The black plates get so much right. Nearly all the speed, PRAT and impact of the 6DE7 with the biggest soundstage I've ever heard through a pair of headphones. It isn't artificially large either. Very natural and layered. I firmly believe these tubes with an EML 274B mesh would be perfect for the Beyerdynamic T1. Once they are properly broken in they are going back into their boxes to await use in just such a combination in the future.

 Groundzero you'll be pleased to know these tubes nail piano reproduction, or at least I think so. I prefer the hammer strike of a piano note to have a bit of bite and these tubes provide that. Not unnaturally so like an edgy sounding reproduction would present, but just a bit of snap that conveys the energy of the hammer striking the string. Soft sounding transients and leading edges on piano completely ruin the listening experience for me. They are lacking just a tad bit of "body" to lower notes, but I'm blaming my headphones for that. A 274B rectifier would probably fix this too (someday.... someday.....). Hopefully you will get your chance to use this tube in your amp. Did your source for them pan out?

 Keep in mind to get the balanced frequency response you have to get the early 60's vintage or older. With the black plate tubes I think this is mandatory because they were not made after that, but with every tube I have tried the older it is the more natural and balanced it has sounded. The newer tubes sound like somebody has pushed a loudness button (extra bass and treble).


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone.

 Just received this email today...

 Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.

 A package will ship to you on 04/19/2010 via U.S. Postal Service to the
 following address:

 Denys 
 Montreal
 CANADA

 Shipping item(s):
 WA6-SE headphone amplifier
 Sophia 274B
 6EW7 pair

 Hope it won't be withheld at the borders too long!!!

 Instead of Blackgates, I will put Mundorf caps.....but later on....anyway.. I can't wait....

 Denys_

 

Congrats!

 Great Amp, Great Company.

 ss


----------



## oldwine

doubled post


----------



## oldwine

Does anyone ask Jack to upgrade after getting the amp??

 He answers me not all options on the page for new unit are available for returned one, he also requires addition labor cost.


----------



## flaming_june

I have a payment question for you guys. Jack does this and so does 95% of users here: 3.5% paypal fee on all payments. Do you guys have any thoughts on this at all? I bring this up because in paypals TOS it specifically says it forbids people from asking extra for paypal fees. I used to charge others for the 3.5% on my ebay sells so I don't have a problem. However I fear that some one may call Jack out on this and may cause a problem.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Jack never asked for extra payment? What is your point?


----------



## flaming_june

Jack asks for extra payments. So do many others. Paypal says it's against their TOS. Right or wrong? If paypal finds out will it be an issue, etc.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Groundzero you'll be pleased to know these tubes nail piano reproduction, or at least I think so. I prefer the hammer strike of a piano note to have a bit of bite and these tubes provide that. Not unnaturally so like an edgy sounding reproduction would present, but just a bit of snap that conveys the energy of the hammer striking the string. Soft sounding transients and leading edges on piano completely ruin the listening experience for me. They are lacking just a tad bit of "body" to lower notes, but I'm blaming my headphones for that. A 274B rectifier would probably fix this too (someday.... someday.....). Hopefully you will get your chance to use this tube in your amp. Did your source for them pan out?_

 

If my ears could salivate, they would be doing so after that description. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Whether Jack decides to sell compatibility upgrades or not, I'm going to mod my amp for those tubes sometime soon. 


 As for the tubes, I responded back to the place asking how many of each they had and how much they are. That was early on Thursday of last week, and no response yet. I'll just call them Monday (today) and find out the details.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I have asked for extra on my 3+ modified. Have gotten an updated price. What do you mean Jack asks for extra? Have exchanged several emails with him prior and through out the building of my amp? What extra payments are you speaking of?


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack asks for extra payments. So do many others. Paypal says it's against their TOS. Right or wrong? If paypal finds out will it be an issue, etc._

 

This is all I see on his Faq...

 19. What payment method do you accept?
 We accept PayPal, Money Order/Certified Check, or Personal Check which would take 3 to 5 business day to clear bank. If you'd like to send a personal check, it is more convenience and simpler to send a eCheck from PayPal. Our PayPal email address is shopping@wooaudio.com
 Note that International payment with PayPal bears 3.5% fee in addition to the total amount.


----------



## flaming_june

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc.../terms-outside

  Quote:


 You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website. 
 

Yes this is relating to Jack charging 3.5 to international buyers. I see personal buyer/sellers here charging 3.5 surcharge to all buyers - something I can understand as most people don't read fine print. However as a business owner I'd think they'd follow things to the letter of the agreement. Just wondering if anyone agreed or not. In my say so I'm going to pay the 3.5% to Jack cus I really don't care, I used to charge it in my ebay auctions. However for some people it may be an issue.


----------



## oldwine

you can ask paypal to see anything that they can help you.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc.../terms-outside



 Yes this is relating to Jack charging 3.5 to international buyers. I see personal buyer/sellers here charging 3.5 surcharge to all buyers - something I can understand as most people don't read fine print. However as a business owner I'd think they'd follow things to the letter of the agreement. Just wondering if anyone agreed or not. In my say so I'm going to pay the 3.5% to Jack cus I really don't care, I used to charge it in my ebay auctions. However for some people it may be an issue._

 

I had to pay the extra 3.5% with Paypal....I see it as some sort of insurance in case something happens.....I found it more practical than sending a bank draft, that could be lost in mail, or any other issue....

 Of course, like anyone else I wish I could have avoid these fees, but on the other hand I really wanted this amp.....

 Denys


----------



## stocklaz

Hi all, please welcome me to join this group.

 As somebodies already noticed, that I got my WA2 last week with a little bit problem...... anyway now I have a very standard black WA2 and I like it VERY much. It give life back to my Mpro and I am so busy to use Mpro to sing back all of my songs collection once.

 Right now my WA2 is fully standard, not yet to change any tubes, using a basic rca cable with a computer use power cable. It already sound great. Good job !!

 Just to know from my friend that Woo's actually like me, a Chinese??


----------



## dannie01

Welcome to the club, stocklaz. You will have real good time with your Woo amp. BTW, tube rolling will make it sings much better than the stock one and even with some BG mod by yourself, I have some modded my ex-WA6SE with BGs and it really sounds goooooooood than only the stock component but don't get me wrong, the stock WA6SE also a very good amp indeed. Take a look this THREAD and you'll have some recommendation on tube rolling of the WA2.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes this is relating to Jack charging 3.5 to international buyers. I see personal buyer/sellers here charging 3.5 surcharge to all buyers - something I can understand as most people don't read fine print. However as a business owner I'd think they'd follow things to the letter of the agreement. Just wondering if anyone agreed or not. In my say so I'm going to pay the 3.5% to Jack cus I really don't care, I used to charge it in my ebay auctions. However for some people it may be an issue._

 

It is just an additional processing fee to cover the extra expense of shipping internationally. Many businesses do this. Paypal themselves charge extra fees for certain transactions and things like currency conversions, Jack is likely just covering these expenses. I don't see what the problem is, he is disclosing the fact that he charges the fee.


----------



## Gradofan2

I think I'll swap out the cathode caps in my WA6 SEM to allow me to more safely use the 6FD7's I have. But... I expect I'll have difficulty finding BG's in the values I need.

 One member, who's opinion I respect, has suggested I use Panasonic FM 220uf / 160v caps as an alternative to the BG's. 

 I've used Panasonic FM's in my X-CAN v3 mods and they were great! So, I'm inclined to use those.

 But... what other alternatives would anyone suggest (those who have built or modified amps)????

 I'm also not sure - I want to invest in very expensive Audio Note's, or similar.

 Any ideas???


----------



## flaming_june

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is just an additional processing fee to cover the extra expense of shipping internationally. Many businesses do this. Paypal themselves charge extra fees for certain transactions and things like currency conversions, Jack is likely just covering these expenses. I don't see what the problem is, he is disclosing the fact that he charges the fee._

 

That's not true.

 - extra expenses of shipping internationally is already covered in extra shipping and handling fees 

 - currency conversions are a different breed. can't compare apples and oranges

 All paypal's trying to do is not letting sellers charge for something that they are charging. They think the 3.5% discourage paypal use. In only one personal case has it actually happened where a seller didn't want to accept my paypal payment and told me to direct deposit the money into his bank account.

 Like I said it's not a problem for me since I agree with the 3.5% fee anyways. I was just wondering for the buyers who know about paypal's tos, would be a problem or not. However since it only applies to international shipments I'm sure that number decreases to zero.


----------



## Covenant

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One member, who's opinion I respect, has suggested I use Panasonic FM 220uf / 160v caps as an alternative to the BG's._

 

I have had the Panasonic FM/FC series recommended to me by amp builders before too, as a good price/performance ratio cap. I'm not savvy enough to tell if they'd get close to BG performance, but they seem to be regarded as good caps nonetheless.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I'll swap out the cathode caps in my WA6 SEM to allow me to more safely use the 6FD7's I have. But... I expect I'll have difficulty finding BG's in the values I need.

 One member, who's opinion I respect, has suggested I use Panasonic FM 220uf / 160v caps as an alternative to the BG's. 

 I've used Panasonic FM's in my X-CAN v3 mods and they were great! So, I'm inclined to use those.

 But... what other alternatives would anyone suggest (those who have built or modified amps)????

 I'm also not sure - I want to invest in very expensive Audio Note's, or similar.

 Any ideas???_

 

I'm not that knowledgeable on the topic of caps, but aren't you supposed to replace it with a 200v cap? I had it recommended to me before purchasing to have the cathode cap changed to a Panasonic TS-ED 470uf/200v. I had no idea what that meant then, but now on the topic of 6fd7s, I think it was so I could use them?


----------



## nattonrice

If you could find a (smaller than the current) BG at the correct voltage rating you could simply drop it in parallel to the current cap to total up to the desired capacitance.
 That way you can keep your BG theme.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you could find a (smaller than the current) BG at the correct voltage rating you could simply drop it in parallel to the current cap to total up to the desired capacitance.
 That way you can keep your BG theme._

 

Maybe that would work also. I'll check with Jack and see what he thinks. I would like to maintain the BG theme.

 RE: the values, 200v might provide a larger margin for voltage swings... than the 160v... but, I'm told that shouldn't be necessary. In fact, I'm told by reliable sources that the 100v value might be OK for the 6FD7 (greater than the voltage draw), but that the voltage capacity of caps decline over time, and it might fall below the draw of the tube, so it would be better to have a greater margin. But... if I can find BG's with 200v values that would be fine.


----------



## stocklaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club, stocklaz. You will have real good time with your Woo amp. BTW, tube rolling will make it sings much better than the stock one and even with some BG mod by yourself, I have some modded my ex-WA6SE with BGs and it really sounds goooooooood than only the stock component but don't get me wrong, the stock WA6SE also a very good amp indeed. Take a look this THREAD and you'll have some recommendation on tube rolling of the WA2._

 

Thanks for your welcoming . That tube rolling post I read before my amp reach my home. (After I paid I wait for 3 weeks for building and 1 week for shipping, so I got a LOT of time) Change the stock tube is tempting and I should do that in near future, but I would like to use those stock tube to help me run-in the Amp before I plug those expansive tubes for enjoyment. 

 I also in plan to DIY myself in the future to upgrade the WA2 by myself. However right now my DIY skill is Zero. I need to learn something more basic first, any suggestion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Online course of DIY audio equipment ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you think your amp is sensitive to the change of power bar/cables and RCA cable ?


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not true.

 - extra expenses of shipping internationally is already covered in extra shipping and handling fees 

 - currency conversions are a different breed. can't compare apples and oranges

 All paypal's trying to do is not letting sellers charge for something that they are charging. They think the 3.5% discourage paypal use. In only one personal case has it actually happened where a seller didn't want to accept my paypal payment and told me to direct deposit the money into his bank account.

 Like I said it's not a problem for me since I agree with the 3.5% fee anyways. I was just wondering for the buyers who know about paypal's tos, would be a problem or not. However since it only applies to international shipments I'm sure that number decreases to zero._

 

Not to derail the thread, but when I bought my Wa 22 here from a member he asked for 3.5% or e check, I sent him a e check and then found out it took 3 to 5 business days for the transaction to clear.. Ryan felt bad, (he didn't realize there was a wait either) so he canceled the e check and I sent the payment to him by a CC. backed payment. He paid the fees. If the add 3 1/2% for paypal fees, is against the rules why does head-fi not ban the practice?

 When I bought my Meridian 808.2i (from Audiogon) I was asked to wire the money to the seller ((which I was uncomfortable with because there was none of the paypal safety features)) to avoid the paypal fees. 

 Why on the internet is this practice allowed to flourish if it is against the rules? This was a brick and mortar store and if I walked in off the street with my CC. he would of said thank you,, not don't forget the 3 1/2 %. or wire me the money.

 By the way my amp.(Wa. 22) is on it's way to me I can't wait..


----------



## sillysally

All I can say is that its good to have Jack here in the USA, no need for any extra charge and 2 days for delivery even for my 3 packages combined weight of a 105 pounds. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stocklaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your welcoming . That tube rolling post I read before my amp reach my home. (After I paid I wait for 3 weeks for building and 1 week for shipping, so I got a LOT of time) Change the stock tube is tempting and I should do that in near future, but I would like to use those stock tube to help me run-in the Amp before I plug those expansive tubes for enjoyment. 

 I also in plan to DIY myself in the future to upgrade the WA2 by myself. However right now my DIY skill is Zero. I need to learn something more basic first, any suggestion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Online course of DIY audio equipment ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you think your amp is sensitive to the change of power bar/cables and RCA cable ?_

 

DON'T DO THE MOD or ask someone with such skill to do that if you're not familiar because it' running in high voltage that's mean VERY DANGER.

 I have some cables rolling in the WA6SE, it do have some changes in sound wise but not that noticeable than the BG mod and tube rolling.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stocklaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I also in plan to DIY myself in the future to upgrade the WA2 by myself. However right now my DIY skill is Zero. I need to learn something more basic first, any suggestion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Online course of DIY audio equipment ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 I highly recommend you have someone with experience do any mods. I've seen some sloppy work in my day. Burned circuit boards with lifting foil, cold solder joints, wrong value parts, etc, etc. You paid a lot of money for this amp. Personally would be happy the way it is, but that's your choice..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I highly recommend you have someone with experience do any mods. I've seen some sloppy work in my day. Burned circuit boards with lifting foil, cold solder joints, wrong value parts, etc, etc. You paid a lot of money for this amp. Personally would be happy the way it is, but that's your choice.._

 

I would certainly take atbglenn's advice. You wouldn't want to ruin a perfectly good amp.


----------



## Groundzero

Would anyone who is changing caps for the 6FD7s mind making a mini DIY? I have a friend in mind to solder but I don't think he even knows what a tube is. Any pictures and parts used would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## stocklaz

hehe surely I will not touch my amp in this time or nearly future I think. I better start to learn DIY skill by making some cables or power bar first.


----------



## dannie01

Wow, it's exciting, just got reply from Jack my WA22 is on the way shipping to my home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to have it connected into my system. This is my 2nd amp from Woo Audio, the first I owned is a WA6SE.

 But unfortunately Jack told me that the EML 5U4G is temporary out of stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it will be shipped separately in a few weeks later. I will burn it with the stock tubes and I have some replacement tubes on hand already for rolling. The GEC 6080, Rayteon6F8G and RCA 6F8G is now ready for the WA22. 

 And I will swap the stock caps and resistors with BGs for power filtering, V-caps the latest CuTF and RMG just like what I've done on my WA6SE. Let see how this monster sings after those up-garde. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will post some pics when it arrived.


----------



## DarKu

Congrats Danny !!!
 It's a beauty of an amp, EML's are well worth their money ! Listened last weekend an EML 5U4G and it blows SP 274B easily and it lasts much longer than Sophia.
 It's good to see you going back to roots. Welcome back to the club


----------



## dannie01

Thanks buddy, it's weird and interesting for someone welcome me back to the thread I started. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My heart is never left the Woo amp (I'm not shy to state that, I love their sound) even I sold my WA6SE a month or so before for the WA22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I read a lot how good about the EML 5U4G that's why I insist go for it even Jack told me it's temporary out of stock and he offer the EML 274B as an option. Also, I've had bad experience with a failed Sophia Princess 274B but with luck have it replaced by Jack.

 Oh, forgot to say when I sold my WA6SE. *I'LL BE BACK*.


----------



## DarKu

*HASTA LA VISTA BABY !!!*




 Waiting for those pics when it will arrive


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, it's exciting, just got reply from Jack my WA22 is on the way shipping to my home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Can't wait to have it connected into my system. This is my 2nd amp from Woo Audio, the first I owned is a WA6SE.
_

 

Congrats, please do post impression with HD800 SE and balanced mode.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks buddies, I'll try my best.


----------



## Denys

Hi,

 Any Canadians own a Woo amp??? just asking because mine left the US on Tuesday April 20..... I'm from Montreal....about an hour away from the borders....Wonder how long you had to wait !!!

 How much time does it take before they release the amp ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Or is someone enjoying it and secretly thanking me ?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What the hell is wrong ??? Cocaine enters this country by container without any problem....can I just have my amp ????

 Sorry...must be the snow we received yesterday !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Denys


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Any Canadians own a Woo amp??? just asking because mine left the US on Tuesday April 20..... I'm from Montreal....about an hour away from the borders....Wonder how long you had to wait !!!

 How much time does it take before they release the amp ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Or is someone enjoying it and secretly thanking me ?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What the hell is wrong ??? Cocaine enters this country by container without any problem....can I just have my amp ????

 Sorry...must be the snow we received yesterday !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Denys_

 

From Canada to USA all my packages came right through( Goes through Buffalo NY to Chicago 2 days) however once in the USA there was no tracking info. So hopefully your new Woo will show up today!!

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Any Canadians own a Woo amp??? just asking because mine left the US on Tuesday April 20..... I'm from Montreal....about an hour away from the borders....Wonder how long you had to wait !!!

 How much time does it take before they release the amp ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Or is someone enjoying it and secretly thanking me ?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What the hell is wrong ??? Cocaine enters this country by container without any problem....can I just have my amp ????

 Sorry...must be the snow we received yesterday !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Denys_

 

You are not the worst, someone here in this thread wait for their amp for *8 WEEKS *long in the beginning of 2010. My WA22 shipped from Jack on 14 Apr, the postman delivered in yesterday's morning that I was out for my job. I need to go to the post office collect by myself 2 days afterward. That's total 15 day, I will have it on my rack connected with my source and HD800 balanced tomorrow. Let enjoy the music, it worth for the wait.


----------



## jc9394

Nice Dannie, what DAC you are using with WA22? I'm planning to get a Perfectwave to pair WA22.


----------



## flaming_june

LOL that sucks! The website says 2 weeks! I guess that's why I haven't heard anything from Wu.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You should have received a notice about the actual wait time with your payment confirmation.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice Dannie, what DAC you are using with WA22? I'm planning to get a Perfectwave to pair WA22._

 

Perfectwave is known a very nice DAC with strong feature, should be a good synergy with your amp. I have 2 sources now in my system, Snoy X77ES coaxial output connected to Teradac NOS DAC (heavily modded) SE output and Linn Akurate DS (stock with Dynamic Power Supply) balanced output, they are in extreme direction, I know.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should have received a notice about the actual wait time with your payment confirmation._

 

Here's the note I received from Jack:

 Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.

 A package will ship to you on 04/19/2010 via U.S. Postal Service to the
 following address:

 Denys
 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Montreal Quebec 
 CANADA

 The shipment tracker number is blablabla
 Shipping item(s):
 WA6-SE headphone amplifier
 Sophia 274B
 6EW7 pair

 It was built and sent within timeframes.... Somebody is holding it somewhere.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Denys


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Linn Akurate DS (stock with Dynamic Power Supply) balanced output 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, very nice DAC. My wife will kill me before I attempt to get this. Perfectwave is top of my budget.

 Dannie, not sure you are asian or not. When I borrowed my friends Perfectwave and transport for a week, I notice Jacky Cheung's Private Corner sounds amazing with HD800. It seems like he performing a private concert just for me.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the note I received from Jack:

 Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.

 A package will ship to you on 04/19/2010 via U.S. Postal Service to the
 following address:

 Denys
 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Montreal Quebec 
 CANADA

 The shipment tracker number is blablabla
 Shipping item(s):
 WA6-SE headphone amplifier
 Sophia 274B
 6EW7 pair

 It was built and sent within timeframes.... Somebody is holding it somewhere.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Denys_

 

Most likely your customs. The last time I sold couple 6EW7s to Toronto head-fier took 3 weeks.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, very nice DAC. My wife will kill me before I attempt to get this. Perfectwave is top of my budget.

 Dannie, not sure you are asian or not. When I borrowed my friends Perfectwave and transport for a week, I notice Jacky Cheung's Private Corner sounds amazing with HD800. It seems like he performing a private concert just for me._

 

Hey jc, actually, the Akurate DS is a digital stream player connected to my music server which I ripped most of my CD and some Hi-Res music file bought from Linn & HD-Track on-line. It cannot be used as a normal DAC with external connection.

 Jacky Cheung is my beloved singer from his first album released. But I'm not really like his recent performing and style in his music including the Private Corner but I'll try as your recommendation.

 Edit: I auditioned the Perfectwave combo in their new HK showroom at iSquare, a very nice sounding machines, of course, the entire system set-up for the demonstration is sky-high price...................


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are not the worst, someone here in this thread wait for their amp for *8 WEEKS *long in the beginning of 2010. My WA22 shipped from Jack on 14 Apr, the postman delivered in yesterday's morning that I was out for my job. I need to go to the post office collect by myself 2 days afterward. That's total 15 day, I will have it on my rack connected with my source and HD800 balanced tomorrow. Let enjoy the music, it worth for the wait._

 

Dannie,

 Would love to hear your impressions. I'm looking at the WA22 also. I am thinking about the WA 5 LE, but the combination may be too big for work.


----------



## dannie01

WA5LE was in my wish list before I go for the WA22, but considering for the high price with those up-grade parts and it is SE, I finally decided to have the WA22 instead. For impression, I think I'll have it in brief since there are some nice reviews over the forum. 

 A very nice one I would highly recommended to read by Seamaster.


----------



## dannie01

Hi Buddies, the WA22 is at home now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 When I opened the box and the amp came out in my sight, wooh, it's built so beatiful, heavy and like a tank. The stock tubes came with the amp are GE 6SN7GTB, Phiips Jan ECG 6080WC (metal base) and the Russia 5Z4G (I will never put this ugly tube into the WA22). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	














 I then opened the cover underneath took a look with curious. Surprisingly, the 2 chokes inside look very cheap, I realized that in my ex-WA6SE, there are 2 better look chokes in use, these 2 are really crappy in look (yeah, just comment from the outlook only) the foil covered by some very cheap plastic tape, 2 wires from the chokes are soldered in each side of thf the choke and pcb. It doesn't look like what I've read in Seamaster and other members thread and pics, the cables are direct lend out inside from the choke. The 3 Nichicon power filtering caps were now replaced by CDE, it should be a Taiwanese manufacture, it look also cheaper than the Nichicon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 This is the innard pic from Seamaster's thread. (Sorry Seamaster, please lend me the pic to show the differ)






 The pcb is different too, I think Jack is soldered all important component point to point but the trace on the pcb just make me feel it's no longer a fully point to point soldering gear anymore, it also happened on the DACT.

 Anyway, plugged all tubes in and have it warm-up for an hour before initial listening. The tubes are stock GE 6SN7GTB, Phiips Jan 6080WC and Mullard GZ30, yes, I said that I will never put that ugly Russian rectifier into my amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The EML 5U4G is told that by Jack temporary out of stock, it will be shipped by the mid May.






 Before listen to the amp and after look at what the component were inside, I'm quite upset 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what will it sounds? But wow, just WOW. Jack has never make me down, this beast sounds very nice, solid and un-expected that what component it used. Very lush and beutiful highs and the bass is full with texture, not very powerful and impactful, it should be because of the tubes now in use. I will swap by Raytheon 6F8G and GEC 6080 for a try, see how much can be improved in sound.

 I'm still a very happy Woo amp owner. And............. *I'M BACK*! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS. Sorry for the crappy pics taken by my crappy DC.


----------



## atbglenn

Danny, your amp looks great. Your circuit board is double sided rather than single sided like on the first generation units. Probably done that way to make the signal paths shorter. Also, I like that your chokes have soldered connections, rather than being hardwired. I agree that the newer Woo's have less point to point wiring, but yours is no less than the first WA22's.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks Glenn. But why a soldered connection choke is better than a hardwired one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Other than that, the power filtering CDE caps not looking good than the Nichicon either, but anyway, it sounds very good, indeed.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Glenn. But why a soldered connection choke is better than a hardwired one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Other than that, the power filtering CDE caps not looking good than the Nichicon either, but anyway, it sounds very good, indeed._

 

Danny, it's just my personal preference. It's not better or worse.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Danny, it's just my personal preference. It's not better or worse._

 

OK my friend, that's fine anyway, it was there. But wondering I could swap some better cable for the connection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just put the GEC 6080 and Raytheon 6F8G with adapters, and it made by a very nice gentleman called Glenn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will up-date what they sound after some warm up. Some pics for the beautiful tubes below.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I then opened the cover underneath took a look with curious. Surprisingly, the 2 chokes inside look very cheap, I realized that in my ex-WA6SE, there are 2 better look chokes in use, these 2 are really crappy in look (yeah, just comment from the outlook only) the foil covered by some very cheap plastic tape, 2 wires from the chokes are soldered in each side of thf the choke and pcb. It doesn't look like what I've read in Seamaster and other members thread and pics, the cables are direct lend out inside from the choke. The 3 Nichicon power filtering caps were now replaced by CDE, it should be a Taiwanese manufacture, it look also cheaper than the Nichicon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 This is the innard pic from Seamaster's thread. (Sorry Seamaster, please lend me the pic to show the differ)






 The pcb is different too, I think Jack is soldered all important component point to point but the trace on the pcb just make me feel it's no longer a fully point to point soldering gear anymore, it also happened on the DACT.
_

 

Hey dannie01: my WA22 chokes are also covered in plastic rather than foil as well but they are hardwired and not soldered.


----------



## tosehee

Grats on your WA22. It's a wonderful device..


----------



## dannie01

Hi Clayton, yeah, they are different, not even the wire, also the outlook.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grats on your WA22. It's a wonderful device.._

 

Thanks buddy, I can have the GEC sit in now.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Just put the GEC 6080 and Raytheon 6F8G with adapters, and it made by a very nice gentleman called Glenn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

I don't remember making any adaptors. I guess it's the age thing


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't remember making any adaptors. I guess it's the age thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But I'll bet that you'll remember your BIRTHDAY (which is on Sunday!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then again, maybe you won't.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I'll bet that you'll remember your BIRTHDAY (which is on Sunday!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then again, maybe you won't.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How can I possibly forget? You keep reminding me


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I'll bet that you'll remember your BIRTHDAY (which is on Sunday!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then again, maybe you won't.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, we'd remember Sunday is your birthday, too.

*[size=x-large]HAPPY BIRTHDAY GLENN[/size]*






 Let's celebrate early here.


----------



## atbglenn

Thanks Danny! Remember, I accept Paypal! LOL!!


----------



## dannie01

You'll have your birthday present very soon, check with your account, my friend.


----------



## orkney

Enjoying my WA6/HD800 combo. Shipped with a Winged C rectifier, now replaced by an NOS GE GZ34, which I like. Nice combo of warmth and aggression driving the 800s and seems to have plenty left in the tank.

 best,

 o


----------



## dannie01

Congrats orkney and welcome to the club.


----------



## jc9394

Very nice, Dannie. Now it makes me want the baby really really bad.


----------



## dannie01

HERE you go.


----------



## takezo

congrats dannie. it's a shame woo changes their stock component on a whim, it seems.
 but i'm sure you'll find better alternatives! looking forward to your impressions and ,if 
 possible, some comparisons with the 6SE. enjoy.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks takezo, now I'm sourcing the better component for replacement. But that said, the stock WA22 is sound great with god tubes, no doubt.


----------



## sillysally

I think it's more than a whim when Jack makes changes, I would call it evolving. 
 That said Jack probably will add a parts upgrade to the WA22 as Seamaster has has tried to do with Dan on his WA22. 
 Lets face it you pay for what you get.

 I still don't understand why folks keep adding something like Raytheon 6F8G and adapters to there WA22. There are some great driver tubes out there like the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT. I have the CV181-Z in my WA5 LE and really like it. However I have a NOS matched pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7GT oval mica [1942-44] on there way so I can compare with the CV181-Zs.

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it's more than a whim when Jack makes changes, I would call it evolving. 
 That said Jack probably will add a parts upgrade to the WA22 as Seamaster has has tried to do with Dan on his WA22. 
*Lets face it you pay for what you get.*_

 

Absolutely agree, what I want to state is, we both pay the same on the a WA22. But the component in later unit seems not looking as good as the former in use. That said only in outlooking, and Jack replied my email last night quoted that the latest component use in the WA22 will not affect the performance of the amp. I trust what he said and I will also up-grade the parts as Seamaster's unit by Dan but with different brands.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still don't understand why folks keep adding something like Raytheon 6F8G and adapters to there WA22. There are some great driver tubes out there like the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT. I have the CV181-Z in my WA5 LE and really like it. However I have a NOS matched pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7GT oval mica [1942-44] on there way so I can compare with the CV181-Zs.

 ss_

 

From what I read, the Raytheon/ Tung Sol 6F8G with adapters sound as good as the expensive 6SN7. The price for good 6SN7 is going crazily high, so that's why I think and I'm the one cannot afford for those $250 or $300 pair of 6SN7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Never heard the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z and Tung-Sol 6SN7GT, both amazing tubes, would like to have your impression of them compare.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely agree, what I want to state is, we both pay the same on the a WA22. But the component in later unit seems not looking as good as the former in use. That said only in outlooking, and Jack replied my email last night quoted that the latest component use in the WA22 will not affect the performance of the amp. I trust what he said and I will also up-grade the parts as Seamaster's unit by Dan but with different brands._

 

Did Jack say anything else about the parts and wireing changes? I am almost ready to purchase a WA22, but this concerns me.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did Jack say anything else about the parts and wireing changes? I am almost ready to purchase a WA22, but this concerns me._

 

I asked Jack some questions about the component, wiring and chokes on the latest WA22 and he replied below. Seems resolved the queries.

*1/ The chokes (not saying it perform worse than the one use before) and coupling caps inside look very cheap than the one I saw in another thread.*
*J: In fact, the current chokes are one of the best we made. It is very low noise. The appearance is hard to justify.*


*2/ The 3 power filtering caps in the middle of the pcb are replaced by CDE, not Nichicon anymore.*
*J: We might have used Nichicon for these 3 caps as we did not have the correct values. I doubt a better caps in this area would make much difference.*

*3/ Seems not totally point to point anymore.*
*J: The only place not p-to-p is the power supply. Everywhere else is still p-to-p. Also, the Teflon socket PCB greatly simplify the soldering points. The reason we adapted printed PCB for the power supply is that this circuit is fairly complex and easy to make mistakes when building. We had gone through some extensive troubles solving a small problem in the past. For these reasons, I apt for reliability. Most importantly, the sound quality did not get a hit.*


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely agree, what I want to state is, we both pay the same on the a WA22. But the component in later unit seems not looking as good as the former in use. That said only in outlooking, and Jack replied my email last night quoted that the latest component use in the WA22 will not affect the performance of the amp. I trust what he said and I will also up-grade the parts as Seamaster's unit by Dan but with different brands._

 

When I got my WA5LE I was a little worried about how the bass would sound, but like you I took Jacks word for the bass and that there was a much better bass than my WA6SE. He was right the bass in the new evolved WA5LE is amazing along with the rest of the sonic range. Also keep in mind I use a pair of HD-800s with a Cardas Cable. 
 But I have about 400 more hours to get to the 800 hour mark because of the parts upgrade that Jack offers for the WA5LE. 


  Quote:


 From what I read, the Raytheon/ Tung Sol 6F8G with adapters sound as good as the expensive 6SN7. The price for good 6SN7 is going crazily high, so that's why I think and I'm the one cannot afford for those $250 or $300 pair of 6SN7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Never heard the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z and Tung-Sol 6SN7GT, both amazing tubes, would like to have your impression of them compare. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Yes you are right the CV181-Z is $320 usd from Jack and the NOS Tung-Sol 6SN7GT round/oval plates circa 1940 to 1945 matched pair are very rare and not cheap if you can find a very nice pair at all.
 I will have the Tung-Sol in a few weeks, they are coming from Greece.
 So yes I will be comparing the Shuguang Treasure and the Tung-Sol thats why I am getting the Tung-Sol just to make sure I can't do any better than my CV181-Z. 

 You may want to check this link out. 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/ref...thread-117677/

 ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

As curious as I am about the 6SN7 it just seems like a bad game to get into unless you have an amp like the WA5 to justify the cost. They are only going to get more expensive, and the only current production tubes are costly too. Though, I keep hearing even a cheap 6SN7 would be better than any of the tubes that work directly with my amp so I must admit I'm still curious. We'll see if anything is left to the imagination still after the EML goes in the rectifier socket.

 Congrats to dannie and orknay btw on your new amps.


----------



## sillysally

I wouldn't say the cheap 6SN7 are any better then the 6EW7. My WA5 came with a pair of GE 6SN7, I tried the GE for a short time and stopped. Those tubes gave me a lot of ear fatigue, on the other hand the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT i got from Jack are really very nice, great bass, mids and highs, very lush.

 The EML 5U4G mesh is a very nice Rectifier and should help your 701s.

 ss


----------



## flaming_june

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it's more than a whim when Jack makes changes, I would call it evolving. 
 That said Jack probably will add a parts upgrade to the WA22 as Seamaster has has tried to do with Dan on his WA22. 
 Lets face it you pay for what you get.

 I still don't understand why folks keep adding something like Raytheon 6F8G and adapters to there WA22. There are some great driver tubes out there like the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT. I have the CV181-Z in my WA5 LE and really like it. However I have a NOS matched pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7GT oval mica [1942-44] on there way so I can compare with the CV181-Zs.

 ss_

 

for 1900 is that a good thing or bad thing? In regards to "get waht you pay"


----------



## Shinsengumi

My WA22 is ready for shipping. Sadly I had to verify my credit card suddenly at paypal and it will take a few days before I get the card statement.

 But soon I will try my tubes which are laying here waiting for their companion. I will try Tung-Sol 6SN7GT, Tung-Sol 5998 and Sophia Princess, and when my wallet has recovered I will buy a EML-rectifier. But my question is which one is the best: 274B-Mesh or 5U4G-Mesh? What kind of sonic differences will I get?


----------



## rich.no

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shinsengumi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA22 is ready for shipping. Sadly I had to verify my credit card suddenly at paypal and it will take a few days before I get the card statement._

 

Try calling your bank/credit card issuer. My bank was able to provide me with the PayPal code within five minutes.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for 1900 is that a good thing or bad thing? In regards to "get waht you pay"_

 

When it says Woo on the Amp its always a good thing!!

 In regards to "get what you pay for" Woo is one of the best examples of that, you always get your moneys worth with a Woo.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shinsengumi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 But soon I will try my tubes which are laying here waiting for their companion. I will try Tung-Sol 6SN7GT, Tung-Sol 5998 and Sophia Princess, and when my wallet has recovered I will buy a EML-rectifier. But my question is which one is the best: 274B-Mesh or 5U4G-Mesh? What kind of sonic differences will I get?_

 

If you start trying NOS tube rolling I would suggest you do your homework first, and not only on the NOS but on the seller as well.

 The new redesigned EML 5U4G is the best by far. It really does everything very well. As were the 274B Mesh is slow very heavy on the bass, the bass seems to affect the mids as well, highs are ok and the soundstage is the biggest I have ever heard but a little focused.

 ss


----------



## Shinsengumi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you start trying NOS tube rolling I would suggest you do your homework first, and not only on the NOS but on the seller as well.

 The new redesigned EML 5U4G is the best by far. It really does everything very well. As were the 274B Mesh is slow very heavy on the bass, the bass seems to affect the mids as well, highs are ok and the soundstage is the biggest I have ever heard but a little focused.

 ss_

 

Thank you for your answer about EML 5U4G! But I didn't really understand what you are suggesting about NOS-homework.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shinsengumi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for your answer about EML 5U4G! But I didn't really understand what you are suggesting about NOS-homework._

 

N (new) O (Old) S (stock), this means these tubes are no longer being made but are new. Homework is to determine the type of tubes that will best fit your needs and that of your Amp and of course your pocket book. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats to dannie and orknay btw on your new amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Xcalibur.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for 1900 is that a good thing or bad thing? In regards to "get waht you pay"_

 

Yes, the WA22 is "get what you pay", it sound very good stock with some nice tubes otherwise it would be a waste.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shinsengumi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But soon I will try my tubes which are laying here waiting for their companion. I will try Tung-Sol 6SN7GT, Tung-Sol 5998 and Sophia Princess, and when my wallet has recovered I will buy a EML-rectifier. But my question is which one is the best: 274B-Mesh or 5U4G-Mesh? What kind of sonic differences will I get?_

 

Just curious where you get those pricey Tung-Sol 6SN7GT, please write some impression about how it sound.


----------



## ekim

Sillysally,

 When you purchase a pair of NOS tubes, is it still important to match them even if there are same brand and type?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When it says Woo on the Amp its always a good thing!!

 In regards to "get what you pay for" Woo is one of the best examples of that, you always get your moneys worth with a Woo.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss_


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rich.no* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try calling your bank/credit card issuer. My bank was able to provide me with the PayPal code within five minutes._

 

x2


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you start trying NOS tube rolling I would suggest you do your homework first, and not only on the NOS but on the seller as well.

 The new redesigned EML 5U4G is the best by far. It really does everything very well. As were the 274B Mesh is slow very heavy on the bass, the bass seems to affect the mids as well, highs are ok and the soundstage is the biggest I have ever heard but a little focused.

 ss_

 

Hi sillysally,

 The new redesigned EML 5U4G, ¿is it mesh or solid plate?

 Do you have the EML 5U4G mesh to compare? 

 I have the EML 274b solid and the EML 5U4G mesh. 

 If the new EML 5U4G is better than the EML 5U4G mesh, i will be very interested in buy this.

 Regards.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Xcalibur.



 Yes, the WA22 is "get what you pay", it sound very good stock with some nice tubes otherwise it would be a waste.
_

 

So basically it sounds good stock and shouldn't be changed/tube rolled?






 T minus 10 days + 2weeks shipping.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EML 5U4G mesh is a very nice Rectifier and should help your 701s.

 ss_

 

It will be the 274B actually. Unless the 5U4G really is that much better, but my gut says the 274B sound will be right for me. Heavy bass is what the doctor ordered for the K701, unless it is bloated sounding but I haven't ever heard anybody level that criticism against any EML tube. I'm looking for a very organic sound that is revealing of texture, not necessarily lots of speed and energy. I don't want it to sound boring, it has to have good PRAT still but my idea of having fun is listening deep into the music without any hint of fatigue and I think the 274B will do this better. 

 Do you think I'm on the right track with this assumption? I only intend to do this once since $250 is a lot of money for a single tube given my humble income.

 edit: oh, and I *love* a big soundstage. EML 274B is king here and I would be willing to accept a couple of small performance losses elsewhere to get this huge soundstage.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically it sounds good stock and shouldn't be changed/tube rolled?






 T minus 10 days + 2weeks shipping._

 

I think he means you don't need to change internal parts in the amp to pursue greater performance. Tube rolling will usually bring the amp much closer to your own personal ideal, especially since the rectifiers Jack sends are usually just okay at best.


----------



## rocque

And now I can relate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Bad cameraphone pic attached for your approval.

Attachment 29205


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rocque* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And now I can relate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Bad cameraphone pic attached for your approval.

Attachment 29205_

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of Woo


----------



## CrazyRay




----------



## Xcalibur255

Been doing some tube rolling again today, and I'm finding I feel a little differently about my tube collection than I did the last time I wrote about it. Two things seem to stand out in my mind: 1) After spending some time with my 6FD7 black plates, which I consider my best tubes, every other drive tube I have sounds disappointing in comparison. I don't know what it is about these tubes but they are just so right to my ears, with very few exceptions. 2) I've become less and less impressed with the run of the mill black/grey plate 6FD7s lately. There is a thickness to the lower midrange and edginess in the lower treble that is bothering me more and more. They just don't have good tonal balance. Also, the clarity and transients are just not impressive overall compared to the 6DE7 tubes. A partial exception would be the thin bottle 6FD7, which has one foot in the 6DE7 world in terms of sound. I have found myself favoring this tube over all my fat bottles lately, which was not the case before. 

 It's also interesting how much synergy can exist between a rectifier and drive tube. I had considered my 5R4GY to be my best rectifier regardless of drive tube in use, but I'm finding my 5AS4G combined with the 6FD7 thin bottle works really well, better than pairing them with the 5R4. Lots of things to discover still.... though I'm hesitant to buy any more tubes for fear they will just sit in the box unused. I have this urge to try to hunt down some really old vintage tubes and see how much better they might be, but who knows if it is worth it?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ekim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sillysally,

 When you purchase a pair of NOS tubes, is it still important to match (no leaks) them even if there are same brand and type?_

 

Yes it is important but not the end of the world if the test readings very slightly for NOS tubes. However if you are getting power or drive tubes that are expensive and rare yes then you want them very closely matched. 
 For these reasons, that's why I say know your seller and ask him/her questions.

 Jack sells less expensive NOS tubes that are matched. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi sillysally,

 The new redesigned EML 5U4G, ¿is it mesh or solid plate?

 Do you have the EML 5U4G mesh to compare? 

 I have the EML 274b solid and the EML 5U4G mesh. 

 If the new EML 5U4G is better than the EML 5U4G mesh, i will be very interested in buy this.

 Regards._

 

You have two very good Rectifier tube's. Yes I have tried the old EML 5U4G mesh and yes I have the EML 274B solid plate (that's in my WA6SE). 
 imo I don't think the small difference between the new and old EML 5U4G mesh is worth upgrading. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will be the 274B actually. Unless the 5U4G really is that much better, but my gut says the 274B sound will be right for me. Heavy bass is what the doctor ordered for the K701, unless it is bloated sounding but I haven't ever heard anybody level that criticism against any EML tube. I'm looking for a very organic sound that is revealing of texture, not necessarily lots of speed and energy. I don't want it to sound boring, it has to have good PRAT still but my idea of having fun is listening deep into the music without any hint of fatigue and I think the 274B will do this better. 

 Do you think I'm on the right track with this assumption? I only intend to do this once since $250 is a lot of money for a single tube given my humble income.

 edit: oh, and I *love* a big soundstage. EML 274B is king here and I would be willing to accept a couple of small performance losses elsewhere to get this huge soundstage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Of course you are on the right track, that's the most important thing what is the best for you and your rig. And that's why I say do your homework, what works well for me may not for you. 
 btw there is a thread about the EML 274B mesh on head-Fi, if you haven't already read it you may want to read it.

 ss


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Jack some questions about the component, wiring and chokes on the latest WA22 and he replied below. Seems resolved the queries.

*1/ The chokes (not saying it perform worse than the one use before) and coupling caps inside look very cheap than the one I saw in another thread.*
*J: In fact, the current chokes are one of the best we made. It is very low noise. The appearance is hard to justify.*


*2/ The 3 power filtering caps in the middle of the pcb are replaced by CDE, not Nichicon anymore.*
*J: We might have used Nichicon for these 3 caps as we did not have the correct values. I doubt a better caps in this area would make much difference.*

*3/ Seems not totally point to point anymore.*
*J: The only place not p-to-p is the power supply. Everywhere else is still p-to-p. Also, the Teflon socket PCB greatly simplify the soldering points. The reason we adapted printed PCB for the power supply is that this circuit is fairly complex and easy to make mistakes when building. We had gone through some extensive troubles solving a small problem in the past. For these reasons, I apt for reliability. Most importantly, the sound quality did not get a hit.*_

 

Dannie01,

 Thanks for being so detailed in your answers. You have cleared my concerns. I'm close to getting the WA22.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dannie01, I'm close to getting the WA22._

 

I just bought one used,,(Wa22) I have had it for a week and already it is nicer than my coveted Singlepower Balanced Extreme..

 The Wa22 is beautiful to look at, sounds so nice,, great bass clear snappy mid bass, femail voices come more alive and the cymbils shimmer with just the right decay.. And dead quiet.. all for $2000.00. Hit buy it now!!


----------



## regal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markmaxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought one used,,(Wa22) I have had it for a week and already it is nicer than my coveted Singlepower Balanced Extreme..

 The Wa22 is beautiful to look at, sounds so nice,, great bass clear snappy mid bass, femail voices come more alive and the cymbils shimmer with just the right decay.. And dead quiet.. all for $2000.00. Hit buy it now!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

At that price range I would be tempted to get the WA5 for a few hundred more. Has anyone compared the two?


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have two very good Rectifier tube's. Yes I have tried the old EML 5U4G mesh and yes I have the EML 274B solid plate (that's in my WA6SE). 
 imo I don't think the small difference between the new and old EML 5U4G mesh is worth upgrading. 

 ss_

 

You say that the difference between the new and the old are not small, but you could say what are the sound upgrades?

 Is the new a solid plate??

 Thanks sillysally.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically it sounds good stock and shouldn't be changed/tube rolled?






 T minus 10 days + 2weeks shipping._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he means you don't need to change internal parts in the amp to pursue greater performance. Tube rolling will usually bring the amp much closer to your own personal ideal, especially since the rectifiers Jack sends are usually just okay at best._

 

Thanks Xcalibur.

 Yes, the WA22 sound great with stock component even they're not looking very nice brand or looking at all (find my previous post for the internal pics). Of course, if you have some good tubes to roll for the amp, it will always help to make it sounds better and this depends on your own preference. Different tube with their own sound signature, brand/ model no. , different combination with different SQ. There is no absolute great combination for all, you can also surf with this THREAD about tube rolling of WA22 by Seamaster, he did a thorough test of many different tubes, it's a long thread but worth take time to read, really help.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dannie01,

 Thanks for being so detailed in your answers. You have cleared my concerns. I'm close to getting the WA22._

 

Welcome my friend, I just asked Jack the question for those current and future WA22 owners, that's what some of us would concern.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markmaxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought one used,,(Wa22) I have had it for a week and already it is nicer than my coveted Singlepower Balanced Extreme..

 The Wa22 is beautiful to look at, sounds so nice,, great bass clear snappy mid bass, femail voices come more alive and the cymbils shimmer with just the right decay.. And dead quiet.. all for $2000.00. Hit buy it now!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congrats, it looks much beautiful in front of you than on a pic and built like a tank.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markmaxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought one used,,(Wa22) I have had it for a week and already it is nicer than my coveted Singlepower Balanced Extreme..

 The Wa22 is beautiful to look at, sounds so nice,, great bass clear snappy mid bass, femail voices come more alive and the cymbils shimmer with just the right decay.. And dead quiet.. all for $2000.00. Hit buy it now!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mark,

 Just a final conversation with my wife this weekend, and if all goes well, I'll order it on Monday. I am going to go with the tubes upgrade; Power - Sylvania 7236 NOS, Driver - Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z & Rectifier - Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B.

 I've got balanced outs on my DAC and a pair of Granite Audio balanced cables just waiting for something to do.

 Then its getting a balanced cable for my HD800. I am partial to Cardas. I got the upgrade for my HD650, but there are a couple of other vendors out there selling upgraded cables. I would imagine the best way to hear the WA22 is with a cable that has balanced connectors, right? Or does it not matter?

 Thoughts?


----------



## slayerizer

looking forward to getting the new EML 5U4G mesh for my WA6 once it's available again later this month!


----------



## dannie01

I'm on the queue too. Seems missing something to make the WA22 sounds better without it.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mark,

 Just a final conversation with my wife this weekend, and if all goes well, I'll order it on Monday. I am going to go with the tubes upgrade; Power - Sylvania 7236 NOS, Driver - Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z & Rectifier - Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B.

 I've got balanced outs on my DAC and a pair of Granite Audio balanced cables just waiting for something to do.

 Then its getting a balanced cable for my HD800. I am partial to Cardas. I got the upgrade for my HD650, but there are a couple of other vendors out there selling upgraded cables. I would imagine the best way to hear the WA22 is with a cable that has balanced connectors, right? Or does it not matter?

 Thoughts?_

 

Balanced for sure with the HD 800. I have a Moon Audio Blue Dragon Balanced cable, I have herd a Silver Dragon also from Drew at Moon Audio..at a meet, I can't tell the difference,(sound wise) 4N6 said he could. I have a Cardas balanced cable (the blue one) on my HD 650. also a nice choice. You can have the stock cable on the HD 800 re-terminated, thats the cheapest way to go balanced..

 I have the Sopia Princess rectifier tube and the GE driver, running along with a Sylvania 6SN7 GTB chrome dome. Thats my favorite so far. The Sophia tube only has 20 hours or so, sounds good already. I have so many tubes now sometime I get lost, I just keep swapping tubes until I don't have a desire to change anymore, thats how I tuned in my Singlepower amp!! Sort of like,, I let the music Gide me. "wow thats sounds right!!! Just bought a Tung-Sol Mickey mouse 6SN7 matched pair,,this morning, we will see how that sounds, all in good fun.

 I have read some mixed reviews on the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z, thats a lot of money, so until I read more positive reviews my next tube may be the $225.00 "each",,Tung-sol oval plate, just to see what all the fuss is over..


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *regal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At that price range I would be tempted to get the WA5 for a few hundred more. Has anyone compared the two?_

 

I went for the WA22 over the WA5 because the WA22 is balanced, and I have a 300b amp ordered from Craig "Balancing act" also balanced. Sort of got all the bases covered. Seems a waist to not to take advantage of my great sources balanced outputs..(Meridian 808.2i)

 Isn't the WA5 LE $2500.00? $600.00 more


----------



## monsieurguzel

Btw, for all those interested, 6 Moons is doing an audio preview with the Shuguang 300B-Z tubes and are using the Woo Audio 5 amp to test the equipment. The review isn't done yet so there are actually little/no sonic impressions yet....just a bunch of technical jargon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




6moons audio reviews: Shuguang Treasure Series 300B-Z


----------



## sillysally

Is the parts upgrade in that WA5, if so I hope they put about 800 hours on the WA5 before there right up. I have about 450 hours on my WA5LE and It just keeps getting better and better.

 ss


----------



## monsieurguzel

Oh I'm sure it is properly burned in since this amp was reviewed a few years ago by 6 Moons and I'm guessing the reviewer liked it so much that he has kept it as a personal amp all these years.

 Wow, good job getting that many hours on you WA5LE! I think i've only managed to get 150 hours on it so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have decided to purchase a pair of the Shuguang 300B-Z and am excited to try them out. How would you describe their sound along with the CV181?


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm on the queue too. Seems missing something to make the WA22 sounds better without it._

 

Dannie, do you still have the Sophia Princess?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I'm sure it is properly burned in since this amp was reviewed a few years ago by 6 Moons and I'm guessing the reviewer liked it so much that he has kept it as a personal amp all these years.

 Wow, good job getting that many hours on you WA5LE! I think i've only managed to get 150 hours on it so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have decided to purchase a pair of the Shuguang 300B-Z and am excited to try them out. How would you describe their sound along with the CV181?_

 

Ah, but have they taken into consideration as you pointed out the evolution of the WA5?
 Why I say this is because of one of the first reviews on this amp the reviewer was saying the bass was good but could have been better. imo the bass with my new WA5 and the tubes you are getting is the best by far I have ever heard, both in range and impact using my HD-800s. I was viewing the BD (source player BD-83NE) movie Black Knight and in the seen where the hospital explodes my HD-800s where bouncing on my head but with no fatigue and no distortion. 

 To sum up these tubes with are new WA5 that you are getting, i will use this quoit from Head-Fi.
 "Lush (2) - A "lush" sound has a sense of warmth and fullness. Notes are more authoritative and have a sense of life about them. It is a sound free of any sibilance or brightness. It does not mean colored, however. It is an open and inviting sound enveloping the listener into its soundstage. (source: unkown headfier)"

 I also use a pair of EML new redesigned 5U4G in my PSU.

 ss


----------



## DoingOK

All back together....got the wood knob in today:


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To sum up these tubes with are new WA5 that you are getting, i will use this quoit from Head-Fi.
 "Lush (2) - A "lush" sound has a sense of warmth and fullness. Notes are more authoritative and have a sense of life about them. It is a sound free of any sibilance or brightness. It does not mean colored, however. It is an open and inviting sound enveloping the listener into its soundstage. (source: unkown headfier)"_

 

That actually sounds exactly what I'm looking for in my HD800s and am having a hard time getting that sound, even with my DHC complement cable I received. I currently have the EML 300B Mesh as well as the EML 5U4G Mesh combo, and find it to be quite wonderful tube set but can be a little too harsh at times with the HD800. The sound is crystal clear with wonderful detail and open sound stage, but they seem to be a little bass shy and very solid-state like at times. I think this might be due to the fact that the EML tubes are much more modern style 300B and aim more for clarity than for lush mids. Lately I've really been enjoying the more lush and warm sound of my SR-007 Mk2 and SR-717 amp, so I'm really looking to replicate that type of sound with the HD800 / WA5 combo since currently it is a little too fatiguing for long listening periods.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To sum up these tubes with are new WA5 that you are getting, i will use this quoit from Head-Fi.
 "Lush (2) - A "lush" sound has a sense of warmth and fullness. Notes are more authoritative and have a sense of life about them. It is a sound free of any sibilance or brightness. It does not mean colored, however. It is an open and inviting sound enveloping the listener into its soundstage. (source: unkown headfier)"

 ss_

 

I think many people pursue this ideal. For the longest time I thought I needed a "dark" sound because everything sounded harsh and fatiguing to me. What I am learning with my Woo amp is that I have a good ear for distortion unfortunately. I was quite surprised to discover there is more treble present on the Woo most of the time than there is on my solid state amp. I've always viewed treble to be "the enemy" but it turns out it was just the quality of that treble causing my headaches (literally). I've really begun gravitating towards a purely neutral and balanced sound, and many of the tubes I've bought to favor a dark sound aren't working for me now because they mask detail and lack clarity and definition. The gold standard, for me anyway, is a complete sense of effortlessness to the sound. Where it just flows with a liquid quality and does not seem to have any kind of "force" of its own yet still has a sense of power and immediacy to it. Well implemented tripath designs do this for me in the speaker world, but I'm finding it is taking more effort and money to get there with tubes. I'm certainly much much closer than I ever was when I was listening to my headphones on solid state, so that is something at least.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

That is awesome visuals. Do you have plans to cater for owners of WA6 and WA6SE of this cosmetic enhancements?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoingOK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All back together....got the wood knob in today:









_


----------



## VALIENTE

Excuse me guys, is WA6 + K702 = excellent synergy?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VALIENTE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excuse me guys, is WA6 + K702 = excellent synergy?_

 

Try it out and you will not regret... However, your source are equally important ya.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That actually sounds exactly what I'm looking for in my HD800s and am having a hard time getting that sound, even with my DHC complement cable I received. I currently have the EML 300B Mesh as well as the EML 5U4G Mesh combo, and find it to be quite wonderful tube set but can be a little too harsh at times with the HD800. The sound is crystal clear with wonderful detail and open sound stage, but they seem to be a little bass shy and very solid-state like at times. I think this might be due to the fact that the EML tubes are much more modern style 300B and aim more for clarity than for lush mids. Lately I've really been enjoying the more lush and warm sound of my SR-007 Mk2 and SR-717 amp, so I'm really looking to replicate that type of sound with the HD800 / WA5 combo since currently it is a little too fatiguing for long listening periods._

 

Well I don't think your EML 5U4Gs are causing any of these problems (read my reply to the next post)

 I have good news and bad news for you.
 The Bad, these tubes take 300+ hours to break-in
 The Good, all of what you don't like will be a thing of the past. Matter of fact be warned once these tubes and your amp/psu get about 150 more hours you will be able to really crank up the volume with no fatigue but be careful of your hearing.
 The Ugly, I use the Shugang Treasure 300B matched pair, Grade A not the EML 300B. 

 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think many people pursue this ideal. For the longest time I thought I needed a "dark" sound because everything sounded harsh and fatiguing to me. What I am learning with my Woo amp is that I have a good ear for distortion unfortunately. I was quite surprised to discover there is more treble present on the Woo most of the time than there is on my solid state amp. I've always viewed treble to be "the enemy" but it turns out it was just the quality of that treble causing my headaches (literally). I've really begun gravitating towards a purely neutral and balanced sound, and many of the tubes I've bought to favor a dark sound aren't working for me now because they mask detail and lack clarity and definition. The gold standard, for me anyway, is a complete sense of effortlessness to the sound. Where it just flows with a liquid quality and does not seem to have any kind of "force" of its own yet still has a sense of power and immediacy to it. Well implemented tripath designs do this for me in the speaker world, but I'm finding it is taking more effort and money to get there with tubes. I'm certainly much much closer than I ever was when I was listening to my headphones on solid state, so that is something at least. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes I feel your pain. And in my case the closest I came to what we all want is with the EML 274B solid or the new EML 6U4G mesh, and a pair of RCA 6EW7 big bottle silver top and tipped circa 1963 (but I think early to later mid 60s should be about the same).

 The new EML 5U4G brings a lot to the table. Better response, very fast, great bass impact however i don't think you will get the real sub bass but still a very strong bass, very nice mids and highs also along with a more 3D like soundstage. At-least this is what I found to be ture with my WA6SE max and my HD-800s.
 Why i said I feel your pain is because I also have a pair of stock 701s that gave me headaches also, but that was before I had my final tube combo as stated above. And by the time I got it right with my WA6SE I had my HD-800s so I have not tried the 701s with my final tube setup in my 6SE. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dannie, do you still have the Sophia Princess?_

 

Noob, I sold it with my modded WA6SE to a nice guy. And that's why I'm jealous when you're so fast to grab Rob's Sophia 274B in such good price.


----------



## dannie01

DoingOK, the woodie combination is just looks awesome, congrats.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

DoingOk, I agree that looks really nice. I have a black WA6 which looks nice stock, but yours is unique and looks attractive too. I like wood accents.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I don't think your EML 5U4Gs are causing any of these problems (read my reply to the next post)

 I have good news and bad news for you.
 The Bad, these tubes take 300+ hours to break-in
 The Good, all of what you don't like will be a thing of the past. Matter of fact be warned once these tubes and your amp/psu get about 150 more hours you will be able to really crank up the volume with no fatigue but be careful of your hearing.
 The Ugly, I use the Shugang Treasure 300B matched pair, Grade A not the EML 300B. 

 ss_

 

Well thankfully I have a pair of Treasure 300B w/ CV181 tubes coming real soon to my doorstep, so I'll let you know my impressions on them. I really want to be happy with them so that I stop worrying about getting different tubes all the time...


----------



## mikemalter

Decision made, just placed an order with Jack for a Black WA22. I am going to go with the tubes upgrade; Power - Sylvania 7236 NOS, Driver - Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z & Rectifier - Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B.

 He said it should be about two weeks for the unit to ship.

 So the countdown begins!


----------



## mikemalter

Double post - how can that happen?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decision made, just placed an order with Jack for a Black WA22. I am going to go with the tubes upgrade; Power - Sylvania 7236 NOS, Driver - Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z & Rectifier - Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B.

 He said it should be about two weeks for the unit to ship.

 So the countdown begins!_

 

Congrats, mikemalter. But remember, the black color is definitely the DUST COLLECTOR in my experience. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Double post - how can that happen?_

 

It is because you're too excited to double click the "submit reply" button to let us know you've just click the "Add to Cart" button on a WA22.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well thankfully I have a pair of Treasure 300B w/ CV181 tubes coming real soon to my doorstep, so I'll let you know my impressions on them. I really want to be happy with them so that I stop worrying about getting different tubes all the time..._

 

To help put your mind at ease. I am extremely happy with those tubes and the only reason why I am getting the 6SN7GT is just to satisfy my curiosity.

 One thing I can say for sure is that my WA5LE as equipped is more than I ever thought a headphone amp and headphones could ever be. 

 btw I should add that the combo of tubes I am running are one of Jacks favorite combos in the WA5. 

 ss


----------



## dannie01

Hi ss, how better the sound of CV181 than the pricey TS 6SN7GT in your WA5LE, thanks.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decision made, just placed an order with Jack for a Black WA22. I am going to go with the tubes upgrade; Power - Sylvania 7236 NOS, Driver - Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z & Rectifier - Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B.

 He said it should be about two weeks for the unit to ship.

 So the countdown begins!_

 

Now you will be happy for awhile, then a new source, some AKG K 1000 then a ECC adapter and a set of GE 6829, ( just giving you a look into my the crystal ball). This combo sounded great last night!! It's a nice amp.and you will enjoy.

 Black is a bit of a dust magnet but at least it is not a gloss black like my Singlepower amp. That thing looks dusty all the time, (like a black car.)


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi ss, how better the sound of CV181 than the pricey TS 6SN7GT in your WA5LE, thanks._

 

It's in transit.


----------



## dannie01

I'll be waiting for your impression, thanks.


----------



## Denys

Good night everyone,

 I received my WA6 SE today....at the post office. I'll get it tomorrow after work....

 Question for you....do I burn it with or without the Sophia Princess ???

 My feeling is to use the stock tubes for a week or two, then change tubes...

 WA6 SE owners....what is your suggestion ?

 Regards,

 Denys


----------



## dannie01

Congrats for the new toy arrived. And the longer time in use of the tubes will shorter its lifespan. So, that's right, you are advised to burn-in your WA6SE with the stock tubes for about 200+hrs then you can swap to the Princess. But remind that the new Princess do need about another 50+hrs to sounds good.


----------



## jc9394

I suggest burning in with the Sophia for the first 50-100 hours, remember it only have 30 days warranty.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suggest burning in with the Sophia for the first 50-100 hours, remember it only have 30 days warranty._

 

Yeah jc, my bad, I don't even remember it comes with only 30 days warranty.


----------



## mikemalter

This burn in stuff is topical for me as I was thinking of burning in my new WA22 with stock tubes first, and then putting the upgrades in later.

 I think I'll burn in with the good stuff.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This burn in stuff is topical for me as I was thinking of burning in my new WA22 with stock tubes first, and then putting the upgrades in later.

 I think I'll burn in with the good stuff._

 

Congrats.

 That's what I have done with both of my Woo's. Good stuff from the start, and enjoy your Woo. 
 With my latest Woo I used it for eight hours for music then off for 4 hours then used Pink and White noise for eight hours. Here is a link about burn-in and you can DL the sounds.
Burn-in wave files: white noise, pink noise, frequency sweep, channel mix

 ss


----------



## markmaxx

I always burn in the new tubes and the amp at the same time.
 I always burn in with a CD on repeat, 
 But does just having the amp on do anything, as far as burn in goes?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This burn in stuff is topical for me as I was thinking of burning in my new WA22 with stock tubes first, and then putting the upgrades in later.

 I think I'll burn in with the good stuff._

 

Congrats mikemalter. But I would suggest plug all your up-garde tubes for a test run let say 10-20 to find if they're good especially the rectifier have limited warranty period.


----------



## tosehee

I'd burn it without Sophia for 100+ hours at least and with for later time.


----------



## atbglenn

Since the Sophia only comes with a 30 day warranty, I'd get as many hours on it from the get go to make sure you don't have a defective one that might fail prematurely. Just a thought...


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the Sophia only comes with a 30 day warranty, I'd get as many hours on it from the get go to make sure you don't have a defective one that might fail prematurely. Just a thought..._

 

Thanks guys...

 Talking about Sophia's warranty.....my WA6SE reached our border on April 19...and I'll only get it today....

 Does the warranty starts today....or two weeks ago??? I believe that if there's any problem, I could prove I only received it today...with the Post Office receipt...

 Just wondering...maybe I should ask Jack....

 Denys


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys...

 Talking about Sophia's warranty.....my WA6SE reached our border on April 19...and I'll only get it today....

 Does the warranty starts today....or two weeks ago??? I believe that if there's any problem, I could prove I only received it today...with the Post Office receipt...

 Just wondering...maybe I should ask Jack....

 Denys_

 

I think you should email Jack on this.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markmaxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But does just having the amp on do anything, as far as burn in goes?_

 

Based on what I have read this contributes to burn-in for the tubes, but not necessarily the internal parts in the amp. Though, as long as the amp is on the capacitors are receiving electrical current so maybe they do.

 I just listened to mine while it burned in, and followed the progress of the amp with my ears as it opened up. If I was going to come back to it a few hours later I would just leave it on. Heck I still do this half the time because the tubes sound so sweet after they've been on for a few hours.


----------



## Denys

Double post....sorry


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





denys said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 

 I just did....Jack nicely replied he would honour the warranty on Sophia as of the date I received it rather than the date it was sent to me. This is very nice of him as in theory he shouldn't have to pay for the time it stayed at the customs...(two weeks in fact)
   
  That being said, it doesn't mean I'll need the warranty, but it means that I'll burn the amp with the stock tubes for two weeks and then I'll use the Sophia...
   
  Very impressed by both building quality of the amp and the customer service offered by Jack.....
   
  Not use to buy audio equipment before I listen to it. In this case I bought my WA6SE only based on everyone's comments on Head-Fi.....and you guys were right...So I wish to thank you all...this forum is a very reliable place....
   
  I took me eight months before I decide what to buy, and I asked a lot of questions.....it was worth it....
   
  I'm gonna listen to some music now.....be back soon...
   
  Denys


----------



## dannie01

Nice to know you're happy with Jack's offer. I admit, Jack is a very nice gentleman to deal with and he always help to solve any problem that you have. Enjoy your music with your WA6SE.


----------



## jc9394

Hey Dannie,
   
  How is the WA22 compare to beta22 pairing with HD800?


----------



## dannie01

Hehe, I only stick with the WA22 these days. The Beta22 is not being power-on for a week by far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will try in out and compare how they sound with HD800. I just can't resist to plug the HD800 into the WA22.


----------



## jc9394

Nice, that make me feel better with my decision.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice, that make me feel better with my decision.


 


 Yeah, I'm sure you'll never regret with your decision.


----------



## Pepsi

I also would like the comparison. I'm interested in the B22 but have no information on them.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Denys, I'm interested in the WA6 and I would like to know if you had to pay customs fee.
  I live in Montreal too and I need to know if I have to consider those fee in my budget.
   
  Thanks in advance
   
  Mike


----------



## mikemalter

Just talked to Jack today and he says my WA22 will be shipped within two weeks.  I ordered it on Monday, so I wonder if I am one week into the two week period.  I asked him directly for a date when he thought the it would be built, but he would only say within two weeks.  I wonder why he won't answer directly, but always gives me the two week answer when I ask when it will be done.
   
  Those of you who got units from him, what do you think he means?  Everyone here seems very happy with him, and their reputation is very high.  I wonder what is going on.
   
  Anyway my amp will be here within two weeks, whatever that means.


----------



## sillysally

Jack will always do his best, but I would plan on your amp being built in two weeks from now and then being shipped out. Normally these amps take 4 weeks.
   
  ss


----------



## dannie01

He will send you a message when your amp is built and being shipped with tracking number. He might be able to ship you the amp earlier within 2 weeks so why he don't offer you the exact date of shipping (of course may be late). I don't receive an exact date from Jack of my previous orders but always have a message notify with surprise.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> Denys, I'm interested in the WA6 and I would like to know if you had to pay customs fee.
> I live in Montreal too and I need to know if I have to consider those fee in my budget.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> ...


 
   
  I will let you know as soon as I get mine.  I reside in western Canada.  Though my mum lives in Queens.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> Denys, I'm interested in the WA6 and I would like to know if you had to pay customs fee.
> I live in Montreal too and I need to know if I have to consider those fee in my budget.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> ...


 

 Hi Mike,
   
  You won't believe it.....not a penny....not a single one....How lucky can someone get !!!
   
  Denys


----------



## Shinsengumi

Hello everyone, today I got my WA22. I have plugged it in and played it for a few hours. But it sounds awesome! It was as big improvement as I hoped it to be. Well invested money, even though my wallet hurts alot


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Thanks for the answer, I may pull the trigger for one sooner than I thought I will.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





shinsengumi said:


> Hello everyone, today I got my WA22. I have plugged it in and played it for a few hours. But it sounds awesome! It was as big improvement as I hoped it to be. Well invested money, even though my wallet hurts alot


 


 Congrats and welcome to the club. Enjoy your new toy.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





shinsengumi said:


> Hello everyone, today I got my WA22. I have plugged it in and played it for a few hours. But it sounds awesome! It was as big improvement as I hoped it to be. Well invested money, even though my wallet hurts alot


 

 Congrats!  Woo makes some really nice amps.  Enjoy


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shinsengumi said:


> Hello everyone, today I got my WA22. I have plugged it in and played it for a few hours. But it sounds awesome! It was as big improvement as I hoped it to be. Well invested money, even though my wallet hurts alot


 


 Glad to hear you are happy.  Mine is in the oven.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Glad to hear you are happy.  Mine is in the oven.


 

 No worry, mikemalter. It will be on your bakery shelf very soon.


----------



## Clayton SF

Congratulations to mikemalter and Shinsengumi. Hey, atbglenn, isn't it about time you get a WA22?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Congratulations to mikemalter and Shinsengumi. Hey, atbglenn, isn't it about time you get a WA22?


 

 Clayton,
   
  For me, 2 grand is a bit too much to spend on a headphone amp right now. I have other financial priority's unfortunately


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Congratulations to mikemalter and Shinsengumi. Hey, atbglenn, isn't it about time you get a WA22?


 

 clayton - how do your dt990 sound with the wa22 ?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 

 I remember reading that the WA 5LE should not run more than 8 hours at a time.  Is that the same with the WA22?  I was thinking of putting my iPod on shuffle and letting it run at night.


----------



## oldwine

I am still waiting my WA2 to arrive. Looking forward it can drive my DT880/600 well


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> I am still waiting my WA2 to arrive. Looking forward it can drive my DT880/600 well


 


 How long ago did you order it?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> How long ago did you order it?


 

 Hey Mike, I'm assuming your avatar is a picture of you. You look just like a buddy of mine. Almost exact.


----------



## Shinsengumi

Here are two pictures for you guys, especially for mikemalter


----------



## St3ve

Lovely amp Shinsengumi, Congrats on your acquisition.


----------



## dannie01

Great pics Shinsengum.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> clayton - how do your dt990 sound with the wa22 ?


 

 Of the headphones I own (K701, HD650, and DT990 600Ω) the DT990 are quite the match for the WA22. These phones are the most detailed yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The highs are quite defined and the lows are absolutely air-pushing low. The mids are a bit recessed; it could be a tad more forward but on the whole I love these headphones with the WA22. I like the K701s as well which are more neutral. How is your DT880 Pro with the 22? I am thinking about getting some closed-backs. Any opinion on the DT770 Premium or even the Denon AH7000? (Which is a lot more than any of the ones I now own.)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Hey Mike, I'm assuming your avatar is a picture of you. You look just like a buddy of mine. Almost exact.


 

 That photo is about two years old and taken by my wife while we were on vacation in Hawaii during a scuba class.  I have subsequently cut my hair and it is extremely short now.  I did not cut it for two years, and it was very hard to take care of.  So, one really hot San Rafael day, I got it cut really short.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shinsengumi said:


> Here are two pictures for you guys, especially for mikemalter


 


 VERY nice, thank you!


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Of the headphones I own (K701, HD650, and DT990 600Ω) the DT990 are quite the match for the WA22. These phones are the most detailed yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are your K701s Balanced? I have a pair of K702s and I've been wondering if it's worth the cost to get them balanced.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> That photo is about two years old and taken by my wife while we were on vacation in Hawaii during a scuba class.  I have subsequently cut my hair and it is extremely short now.  I did not cut it for two years, and it was very hard to take care of.  So, one really hot San Rafael day, I got it cut really short.


 

 I had long hair myself for many years. I finally cut it off back in 92' after having it long for 20 years. I never realized what a pain in the ass it was until I cut it short.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How is your DT880 Pro with the 22? I am thinking about getting some closed-backs. Any opinion on the DT770 Premium or even the Denon AH7000? (Which is a lot more than any of the ones I now own.)


 


 well, i only have a wa6... 
  was inquiring about your wa22 because i'm planning for one.  it will be my "forever" amp -- hahaha - once i can save up enough for one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i like my dt880s.  they are semi-open.
  been looking at closed phones myself.  and can't seem to find a consensus around here on one... 
  right now the ath-w1000x has my attention.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Of the headphones I own (K701, HD650, and DT990 600Ω) the DT990 are quite the match for the WA22. These phones are the most detailed yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Go for the Denons and sell your other headphones!  I think if you tried the D7000s, you wouldn't be able to take them off your head.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Go for the Denons and sell your other headphones!  I think if you tried the D7000s, you wouldn't be able to take them off your head.


 

 That's what I'm afraid of--they'll find me passed out with the D7000 stuck to my head! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And with a big smile on my face. Yes. I am actually really tempted to get those Denons. So many phones and only 2 ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hey, TheAudioDude, how did you like Frampton's new CD I sent you?


----------



## sillysally

The Denon D7000 are my second favorite and my 701s I just don't like because of ear fatigue and lack of proper bass.
  The Denon D7000s are very nice for closed back a little bass heavy and a nice sound-stage but a little to vertical not a real 3D sound-stage.
  My Sennheiser HD800 (Cardas cable) cover all the bases very well, just a amazing headphone. When I used them with my WA6SE they where very good and my favorite, however with my WA5LE they are amazing. One thing I can now say for sure is that if there is any area of the HD-800s that is lacking its not because of the HD-800s.
   
  ss


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> The Denon D7000 are my second favorite and my 701s I just don't like because of ear fatigue and lack of proper bass.
> The Denon D7000s are very nice for closed back a little bass heavy and a nice sound-stage but a little to vertical not a real 3D sound-stage.
> My Sennheiser HD800 (Cardas cable) cover all the bases very well, just a amazing headphone. When I used them with my WA6SE they where very good and my favorite, however with my WA5LE they are amazing. One thing I can now say for sure is that if there is any area of the HD-800s that is lacking its not because of the HD-800s.
> 
> ss


 
  Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
   
  Don't you just wish there was like a headphone library where you could just check-out these phones like a book and then return them when your borrow time limit's been reached. But I guess, just like a book library, an overextended borrow-session would incur late fees. I wonder how much that would cost me?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Probably astronomical! "But I returned them phones last week." Hah! Yeah, right.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

I have a question for the WA6 owners. Does the V-Cap upgrade make a significant improvement in sound quality, in other word is it worth it?
  I'm about to order one and I want to know witch upgrade are worth getting. I think I'm gonna take a SP rectifier too.


----------



## WindyCityCy

OK I've had my WA22 for a little over 2 months.  About time I share some pics.  Sorry for the poor photography.
   
  Hanging by myself

   
  With my buddies

   
  This time with our sexy friend

   
  Hey it's dark ... oh I like it that way


----------



## Torero

Has anyone tried to use this rectifier?
   
   
[size=1.5em] TJ 274b+ Mesh Plate ST[/size]   
  It is enough expensive.


----------



## Clayton SF

WindyCityCy--looking good. Thanks for the pictures. I see a lot of people have the VT99 with Glenn's adapters. Are you sticking with those tubes or have you rolled any other 6SN7?


----------



## WindyCityCy

I have focused more on the power tubes so far - GEC 6AS7G, Tung Sol 5998, and Sylvania NOS 7236 that I ordered with the amp from Woo.  That said I've also tried the Mazda 6CG7 with Glenn's 6CG7-to-6SN7 adapters in addition to the Raytheon driver tubes.  To tell you the truth I'm not sure which I like better.  I haven't put the Mazda's back in since I got the Tung Sol's and the GEC's.  I need to give those combos a try and see what happens.  I'll try and do some swapping over the next week or 2 and see what sounds best.


----------



## dannie01

Great WindyCityCy, but I'm interested where you got those rare GEC 6AS7?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> I have a question for the WA6 owners. Does the V-Cap upgrade make a significant improvement in sound quality, in other word is it worth it?
> I'm about to order one and I want to know witch upgrade are worth getting. I think I'm gonna take a SP rectifier too.


 

 It makes for a small upgrade in transparency - but the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier makes a bigger difference (as does the pseudo dual power supply which is now standard I believe).


----------



## Clayton SF

This may be a good thing but unlike the WA22 and the WA6 where owners have been rolling many different types of rectifier tubes, the WA2 can only use 2 different rectifiers: EZ80 and EZ81 giving those owners the choice of only rolling manufactures' versions of those tubes. Am I correct? Or are there any other rectifiers other than the EZs that the WA2 can roll?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





torero said:


> Has anyone tried to use this rectifier?
> 
> 
> [size=1.5em] TJ 274b+ Mesh Plate ST[/size]
> It is enough expensive.


 

 no, it pulls 4.0Ampere. will fry any woo amp. please don't try.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> I have a question for the WA6 owners. Does the V-Cap upgrade make a significant improvement in sound quality, in other word is it worth it?
> I'm about to order one and I want to know witch upgrade are worth getting. I think I'm gonna take a SP rectifier too.


 

 the v-cap does make a difference if you have HQ source and cans to detect it. but one thing you should
  know is that the v-cap presents a very solid state like signature. you can opt to go opposite by using
  a paper in oil caps like mundorf and some russian paper in oil caps. they will not be as fast sounding
  and tight, but give you a blooming, euphoric mid sound signature, which some like and others don't.
  v-cap is the most expensive of these film caps. good luck


----------



## shigzeo

Well, I've been enjoying the WA3 for a while - certainly a nice, warm coating for my 600Ω DT880, but also a great amp for the Ultrasone DJ1Pro and HD660. 
   
  I don't really care that it doesn't drive IEM's very well, but who would plug in a highly sensitive earphone to a valve amp? (I did and I feel sheepishly stupid).
   
  It rocks for everything, but has a special affinity for steel drums, guitars, and percussion. I've heard more expensive tube amps before and enjoyed them, but the 500$ it takes to part with a Woo Audio 3 is well worth it - IMO. 
   
  I've just reviewed the Woo Audio WA3 here.


----------



## Denys

Hi guys,
   
  Now that I own a WA6SE and a pair of HD 800, I wonder which DAC you guys have tried ? This should be my last step.
   
  Right now I am using a MOTU 828 MKIII with the power supply modified and all opamp upgraded. The sound is fantastic, but soon I will have to move and I will not be able to put my headphone amp with my main system. Therefore, I will need to buy a DAC. The source will be a notebook with the M2Tech usb-spdif. 
   
  So guys, which DAC have you tried with your Woo unit ??? (Maybe we should start a thread on this subject)
   
  Denys


----------



## dannie01

shigzeo, thanks for the review refered. Good reading and great pics.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> It makes for a small upgrade in transparency - but the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier makes a bigger difference (as does the pseudo dual power supply which is now standard I believe).


 


 Thanks, SP rectifier it is than and yes the PDPS is now standard.

  
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> the v-cap does make a difference if you have HQ source and cans to detect it. but one thing you should
> know is that the v-cap presents a very solid state like signature. you can opt to go opposite by using
> a paper in oil caps like mundorf and some russian paper in oil caps. they will not be as fast sounding
> and tight, but give you a blooming, euphoric mid sound signature, which some like and others don't.
> v-cap is the most expensive of these film caps. good luck


 


 I thinks I'm going to go with the v-cap than, I like a fast and tight sound with a touch of tube magic.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> It makes for a small upgrade in transparency - but the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier makes a bigger difference (as does the pseudo dual power supply which is now standard I believe).


 


 Thanks, SP rectifier it is than and yes the PDPS is standard now.

  
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> the v-cap does make a difference if you have HQ source and cans to detect it. but one thing you should
> know is that the v-cap presents a very solid state like signature. you can opt to go opposite by using
> a paper in oil caps like mundorf and some russian paper in oil caps. they will not be as fast sounding
> and tight, but give you a blooming, euphoric mid sound signature, which some like and others don't.
> v-cap is the most expensive of these film caps. good luck


 


 Alright I think I'll put the v-cap than, I like a fast and tight sound with a touch of tube magic.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> It makes for a small upgrade in transparency - but the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier makes a bigger difference (as does the pseudo dual power supply which is now standard I believe).


 


 Thanks I will take the SP rectifier than. Yes the PDPS is now standard.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





takezo said:


> the v-cap does make a difference if you have HQ source and cans to detect it. but one thing you should
> know is that the v-cap presents a very solid state like signature. you can opt to go opposite by using
> a paper in oil caps like mundorf and some russian paper in oil caps. they will not be as fast sounding
> and tight, but give you a blooming, euphoric mid sound signature, which some like and others don't.
> v-cap is the most expensive of these film caps. good luck


 

 I like a tight and fast sound so I think I'll take the v-cap. I plan on upgrading my HP in the near future, for now I have DT990/600Ω


----------



## jc9394

I have tried DacMagic, gamma2, and DAC1, I like the gamma2 the most. I'm looking for Perfect Wave now since I decided to go balanced.


----------



## Clayton SF

The believe the DacMagic has balanced outputs.


----------



## monsieurguzel

The PS Audio DLIII also has balanced outputs and will cost a whole lot less than a Perfectwave DAC


----------



## BIG POPPA

I like my Woo3+ alot. It is very upgraded and have some great tubes for it. I do recommend the Blackgates upgrade and a GEC A1834. Good stuff for this amp.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> The PS Audio DLIII also has balanced outputs and will cost a whole lot less than a Perfectwave DAC


 

 I have my eyes on this as well but I'm very interest in the network bridge for the PerfectWave, with that I can stream my musics off the NAS over WIFI.


----------



## Clayton SF

Isn't that yet-to-be-released network bridge going to cost somewhere between $500 to $800 in addition to the PWD?


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Isn't that yet-to-be-released network bridge going to cost somewhere between $500 to $800 in addition to the PWD?





 Yes, I look at it with one less computer and no computer fan noise.


----------



## Clayton SF

That's a very good point. I'm no fan of fan noise either
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I own the PWT and am very happy with it. I have it connected to the Mhdt Labs Havana which is very musical and that in turn is connected to my WA2. Blast off! I just got some RCA 6AS7G which is surprisingly affordable and adds life to the WA2 sound stage.


----------



## mikemalter

Well, I just got the email from Jack.  My WA22 is built and will ship tomorrow.  It's going out FedEx ground.  Since I am in California, does anybody know how long it should take?  Jack said 2 to 3 days.  Is that right?
   
  Time to dust off my balanced interconnects!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, I look at it with one less computer and no computer fan noise.


 




  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, I just got the email from Jack.  My WA22 is built and will ship tomorrow.  It's going out FedEx ground.  Since I am in California, does anybody know how long it should take?  Jack said 2 to 3 days.  Is that right?
> 
> Time to dust off my balanced interconnects!


 

 I believe that Jack's 2 to 3 days estimate is very right. I got an email from him on a Friday and it was delivered the following Monday. Stoked I was indeed. I live in San Francisco.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I believe that Jack's 2 to 3 days estimate is very right. I got an email from him on a Friday and it was delivered the following Monday. Stoked I was indeed. I live in San Francisco.


 
   
  Clayton, are there ever any local listening events up here in the north bay?  I'd love to be able to hear what others may have.
   
  I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Friday.


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

They had one in February, I think it was.  Maybe March, but not too long ago.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Clayton, are there ever any local listening events up here in the north bay?  I'd love to be able to hear what others may have.
> 
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Friday.


 

 I asked around (Jack included) and the events that happened were far and few between in my book. Last year I asked when he would exhibit in San Francisco and this was his reply: "There was a San Francisco meet back in August. You may check if there is a head-fi meet coming up in your area." The closest one last year for me was near the SF Airport. Honestly other than those two mentioned I haven't seen anything come this way in the N.Bay since Oct. of 2009. Seattle seems to be the "meet place" but obviously that is not very convenient for us.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sanjosecanjunkie said:


> They had one in February, I think it was.  Maybe March, but not too long ago.


 

 Eek! Don't tell me I've missed another one. Boy, I need to keep on top of these meets. If any other people in the SF Bay Area are in the know about these N.Cal meets please PM me!


----------



## mikemalter

So, I have had my first glitch in buying my WA22 amp, and I am not certian what to do about it.
   
  When I asked Jack the price and other details, he told me that shipping was 2 to 3 days.  I got an email on the 11th that my amp would ship on the 12th.  When I checked the tracking number, delivery is not going to be 2 to 3 days, but more like 8 days.  I don't understand why Jack would say 2 to 3 days.
   
  Also, I sent him an email about shipping duration, and he has yet to answer me.
   
  Could FedEX be wrong on their website?


----------



## sillysally

It takes 3 to 4 days to Chicago, so I would say maybe Saturday if he shipped your amp home delivery.
   
  I don't think there is much Jack can tell you except its shipped and in FedEx hands.
   
  btw next time you Email Jack ask him where my headphone-stand is.


----------



## atbglenn

I sell on ebay, and from my experience it takes about a week for items to make it from the east coast to the west via fed-ex ground
   
  this item shipped FED-EX Ground from Long Island, NY (about 20 miles east of Woo's office)


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> btw next time you Email Jack ask him where my headphone-stand is.


 
  Yes....and mine too !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It was ordered more than a month ago. According to Jack he was suppose to get them last week or early this week... In my case, it will stay at the borders for God knows how long...and then be delivered. My WA6SE stayed at the border from April 20th to be delivered on May 3rd..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.Go figure...
   
  Denys


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So, I have had my first glitch in buying my WA22 amp, and I am not certian what to do about it.
> 
> When I asked Jack the price and other details, he told me that shipping was 2 to 3 days.  I got an email on the 11th that my amp would ship on the 12th.  When I checked the tracking number, delivery is not going to be 2 to 3 days, but more like 8 days.  I don't understand why Jack would say 2 to 3 days.
> 
> ...


 

 I have ordered 3 amps from Jack and they have always arrived within 2 to 3 days. I received an email from Jack for the WA6 on 9/21/09 (Mon.) and it arrived on 9/23. Another email for the WA22 said that it would ship on 12/4/09 (Fri.) and it arrived on 12/7 (Mon.) And the last email for WA2 on 3/9/10 (Tues.) and it arrived on 3/11 (Thurs.). Jack shipped my amps by USPS and not FedEx. Maybe he's switched delivery carriers. I've been very happy with his responses to my emails--always responds within 24 hours or less. Sometimes in 1 hour. I live in San Francisco.


----------



## atbglenn

USPS Priority takes 2 to 3 days. That's how my Woo was shipped. FED-EX Ground to the west coast takes much longer


----------



## dannie01

No clue how the Fed-Ex would take that long the deliver within US and Canada. For my WA22, I have an electronic notice that Jack shipped it on 15 Apr and received on 27 Apr to Hong Kong.


----------



## midoo1990

i am thinking of selling my wa6+sophia and hd650 and all my iems and go for the jh13 and pico slim.
  i havent used my wa6 in two month i think,i only used it for 20 hours then packed it up because of my exams.the only problem is shipping.it will cost me $350 just to ship it via fedex anywhere.
   
  anyone have jh13 and wa6 can comment on the sound?i may just sell hd650 and all my iems and stick with wa6 and jh13.
  any advice?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> i am thinking of selling my wa6+sophia and hd650 and all my iems and go for the jh13 and pico slim.
> i havent used my wa6 in two month i think,i only used it for 20 hours then packed it up because of my exams.the only problem is shipping.it will cost me $350 just to ship it via fedex anywhere.
> 
> anyone have jh13 and wa6 can comment on the sound?i may just sell hd650 and all my iems and stick with wa6 and jh13.
> any advice?


 

 $350 to ship a WA6??? Where do you live? I shipped an iMac from NY to Texas a few years ago via FED-EX Ground. Cost me less than $30 with about $1000 worth of insurance. $350 sounds outrageous


----------



## midoo1990

Well they don't take the cost of the package into calculations,they take the weight and dimensions to determine how much space it would take on the plane.don't forget that the wa6 is 7 kilos.Jack charged me $80 for shipping usps so you can imagine how much it is using a private courier.I live in Egypt and yes the life here is expensive. The only reason that prevents me from selling the wa6 is shipping.I love it's sound,but I use iems now more because of university and most of the time outside.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> Well they don't take the cost of the package into calculations,they take the weight and dimensions to determine how much space it would take on the plane.don't forget that the wa6 is 7 kilos.Jack charged me $80 for shipping usps so you can imagine how much it is using a private courier.I live in Egypt and yes the life here is expensive. The only reason that prevents me from selling the wa6 is shipping.I love it's sound,but I use iems now more because of university and most of the time outside.


 

 The price of shipping makes it not worth selling it. Unless of course you can find someone local. Good luck my friend.


----------



## midoo1990

yes,thats why i am not going to sell it,and thats why i was asking about the synergy between jh13 and wa6,anybody?HPA can you chime in? if there is no improvement,then i will keep my hd650 because the synergy with wa6 is magical.


----------



## Denys

Got my WA6SE for over a week now....
   
  I am burning it with the stock tubes, and the sound is getting better and better... !!!
   
  It's now 17:00 hrs and I have my HD800 since 8:00 this morning listening to prog, electro, even a symphonic metal album.... No auditive fatigue.... it's amazing... I'll stop now, because Jack suggest not to use the amp for more than 10 hrs....
   
  I'll have dinner and the guess what ??? Who's gonna listen to music with the lights off and a glass of wine ???
   
  This must be what we call heaven on earth !!!
   
  Think I'll try the Sophia as of tomorrow !!
   
  Denys


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





denys said:


> Got my WA6SE for over a week now....
> 
> I am burning it with the stock tubes, and the sound is getting better and better... !!!
> 
> ...


 
  Yes! It certainly is Heaven on Earth. I'll drink to that!


----------



## Happy Camper

Hope you don't need sleep for a few days.


----------



## K_19

Urge to upgrade to WA6SE... rising.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> i am thinking of selling my wa6+sophia and hd650 and all my iems and go for the jh13 and pico slim.
> i havent used my wa6 in two month i think,i only used it for 20 hours then packed it up because of my exams.the only problem is shipping.it will cost me $350 just to ship it via fedex anywhere.
> 
> anyone have jh13 and wa6 can comment on the sound?i may just sell hd650 and all my iems and stick with wa6 and jh13.
> any advice?


 

 With JH13Pro, my WA6/Sophia sounds much better than the Pico Slim.  As a matter of fact, while the Slim sounds best with my ES3X, the WA6 or Protector is still better when I switch to my JH13pro.


----------



## hifidk

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> yes,thats why i am not going to sell it,and thats why i was asking about the synergy between jh13 and wa6,anybody?HPA can you chime in? if there is no improvement,then i will keep my hd650 because the synergy with wa6 is magical.


 


 Just like HPA, I also had the WA6/Sophia with JH13. Mine only had PDPS mod but not Maxxed like HPA's WA6. Still, they had great synergy. I would say one of the best combo I have used. I haven't heard protector/pico slim so I don't know which would be better choice but HPA already addressed that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Urge to upgrade to WA6SE... rising.


 


 You won't be disappointed! WA6SE a nice upgrade from WA6.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I just don't know if the WA6SE will be as good with JH13Pro as the std WA6/Sophia.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Urge to upgrade to WA6SE... rising.


 


 Would be nice to hear WA6 and WA6 SE side by side, to see whether the price would explain the upgrade mate.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I just don't know if the WA6SE will be as good with JH13Pro as the std WA6/Sophia.


 

 Why is that?  Yes I think the WA6SE would be overkill for the JH13Pro.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Why is that?  Yes I think the WA6SE would be overkill for the JH13Pro.


 

 The WA6 gain level and volume knob is perfect for JH13Pro/ES3X and HD800 alike.   Many would think that even the WA6 is overkill for IEM, but it's one of my best amps for IEM in my house and brings out the full potential of the JH13Pro, UE11Pro and ES3X.  The WA6SE has more power than WA6 and I don't know if that combined with whatever gain level if has would still work with the IEM as well. That's what I meant. 
   
  Last week I discovered that my ZDT is fantastic with JH13Pro, when I was comparing it to the loaner Luxman P-1u amp which is also fantastic with them.  Those amps would seem like over kill too, except these IEM have such great potential that they don't become the weak link in the chain.  They reveal the weakness in the source and amp, just like any other flagship full-size headphone.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> The WA6 gain level and volume knob is perfect for JH13Pro/ES3X and HD800 alike.   Many would think that even the WA6 is overkill for IEM, but it's one of my best amps for IEM in my house and brings out the full potential of the JH13Pro, UE11Pro and ES3X.  The WA6SE has more power than WA6 and I don't know if that combined with whatever gain level if has would still work with the IEM as well. That's what I meant.
> 
> Last week I discovered that my ZDT is fantastic with JH13Pro, when I was comparing it to the loaner Luxman P-1u amp which is also fantastic with them.  Those amps would seem like over kill too, except these IEM have such great potential that they don't become the weak link in the chain.  They reveal the weakness in the source and amp, just like any other flagship full-size headphone.


 

 Yes I know you like your IEM. However I don't see what the IEM and the HD-800s have in common. The IEM is 28 ohms and the HD-800s are 300 ohms.
  Anyway I didn't think you wanted to run the ZDT with the IEM because of the heat the ZDT gives off and the short cord 4 feet of the IEM.
  I don't know if you are using a pot or stepped. I am running the DACT CT2 stepped attenuator I find it to be a very good match for my HD-800s


----------



## hifidk

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> The WA6 gain level and volume knob is perfect for JH13Pro/ES3X and HD800 alike.   Many would think that even the WA6 is overkill for IEM, but it's one of my best amps for IEM in my house and brings out the full potential of the JH13Pro, UE11Pro and ES3X.  The WA6SE has more power than WA6 and I don't know if that combined with whatever gain level if has would still work with the IEM as well. That's what I meant.


 

 I could still enjoy JH13 with WA6SE Maxxed. However, volume control was much easier with WA6 and yes I also agree that WA6SE would be overkill if you are only going to use JH13 with it. I would never recommend WA6SE to someone who is looking for an amp for JH13. Although I find JH13 balanced with Apache a little better (wider soundstage and better volume control) than Woo, WA6/Sophia would be a great match with JH13 price/performance ratio wise especially if you have full-size headphone like HD600/650 or other high-end headphones.


----------



## hifidk

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I know you like your IEM. However I don't see what the IEM and the HD-800s have in common. The IEM is 28 ohms and the HD-800s are 300 ohms.
> Anyway I didn't think you wanted to run the ZDT with the IEM because of the heat the ZDT gives off and the short cord 4 feet of the IEM.
> I don't know if you are using a pot or stepped. I am running the DACT CT2 stepped attenuator I find it to be a very good match for my HD-800s


 

 I bet he just tried JH13 with ZDT out of curiosity. I wouldn't imagine him using that amp with JH13 everyday


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks HPA and hifidk for your help.I will keep the hd650 because I enjoy it's sound with wa6 and classical.I am not after hearing the last detail in classical music(hello k701?),I enjoy the laid back tone of hd650 especially when you are tired.I will sell my iems and get either jh13 or jh10x3 at the end of the month.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> Thanks HPA and hifidk for your help.I will keep the hd650 because I enjoy it's sound with wa6 and classical.I am not after hearing the last detail in classical music(hello k701?),I enjoy the laid back tone of hd650 especially when you are tired.I will sell my iems and get either jh13 or jh10x3 at the end of the month.


 


 You will bein for a treat with JH13, I love the WA6/Sophia/6EW7 with my JH13 more than my HD800.


----------



## Ozer

I have a question...
   
  Is Woo Audio 6 warm sounding ? I have a La Figaro 332C amp now and I think it's too bright sounding.... La Figaro 332C is extremely bright, so if the WA6 is just a little bit on the warm side it will be a big difference....


----------



## St3ve

Quote: 





ozer said:


> I have a question...
> 
> Is Woo Audio 6 warm sounding ? I have a La Figaro 332C amp now and I think it's too bright sounding.... La Figaro 332C is extremely bright, so if the WA6 is just a little bit on the warm side it will be a big difference....


 

 I wouldn't describe the WA6 as being particularly warm sounding, but it isn't overly bright either. I would characterize the sound of the WA6 as being really quite clean and clear. It sounds nice and responsive across the frequency board, but without seeming to place an emphasis on any one area. The tonality can be tweaked via tube rolling, and the sound can be warmed up to taste in that way.


----------



## midoo1990

i also wouldnt call it warm,but it is not bright.it is as st3ve said clean and clear with very big soundstage and airness.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I know you like your IEM. However I don't see what the IEM and the HD-800s have in common. The IEM is 28 ohms and the HD-800s are 300 ohms.
> Anyway I didn't think you wanted to run the ZDT with the IEM because of the heat the ZDT gives off and the short cord 4 feet of the IEM.
> I don't know if you are using a pot or stepped. I am running the DACT CT2 stepped attenuator I find it to be a very good match for my HD-800s


 

 I'm very confused by the adversarial tone in your reply.  I have no idea what that's all about, or am I just misreading things?  To answer your question, the IEM and HD800 have nothing in common except that the WA6/Sophia does an excellent job driving both.  It doesn't require buying one specific amp for HD800 and another amp for JH13Pro.  While there are certainly better amps out there, I was just mentioning one that worked very well with both that didn't break the bank. And, I was simply putting in a disclaimer that just because the WA6/Sophia is good with both doesn't mean that the WA6SE is, because I haven't tried it.  I am using the normal pot with WA2, not a stepped attenuator which I would worry that the stepped might not let a person go low enough with IEM in a high gain amp.  Again, I don't have experience with the stepped attenuator to know if that's an issue with low volume IEM listening.
   
  Yes, I don't like the heat coming off the ZDT and normally wont use IEM on it; but as hifidk said, I tried it out of curiosity.  I was reviewing the Luxman P-1u last week with everything from IEM to K1000, and using the ZDT as comparison - which meant trying everything with the ZDT as well.  That was actually the first time in almost a year of ownership that I tried the ZDT with my JH13Pro.  It did a fantastic job with them, but you'd have to have a longer cable to let you sit at least 5-6 feet away or you'll cook.  The Luxman P-1u runs nice and cool and is noticeably better than the WA6 with IEM or full size phones, but runs several times the cost of the WA6.

  
  Quote: 





hifidk said:


> I could still enjoy JH13 with WA6SE Maxxed. However, volume control was much easier with WA6 and yes I also agree that WA6SE would be overkill if you are only going to use JH13 with it. I would never recommend WA6SE to someone who is looking for an amp for JH13. Although I find JH13 balanced with Apache a little better (wider soundstage and better volume control) than Woo, WA6/Sophia would be a great match with JH13 price/performance ratio wise especially if you have full-size headphone like HD600/650 or other high-end headphones.


 

 The Apache did sound very wide and spacious with JH13Pro at RMAF, but I thought it sounded a little too bright for my tastes, possibly a consequence of the aviation headset cable that was converted to the task just for RMAF.
  
  Quote: 





hifidk said:


> I bet he just tried JH13 with ZDT out of curiosity. I wouldn't imagine him using that amp with JH13 everyday


 

 Yup!


----------



## hifidk

Very interesting. Apache has pretty balanced sound but if I have to say, it is closer to the warmer side of spectrum in my system. Little more so than the WA6 if I remember correctly. Anyway, I guess this would be an enough of off-topic. I would recommend WA6 for both IEMs and full-size and it is truly a great sounding amp with a nice price tag.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ozer said:


> I have a question...
> 
> Is Woo Audio 6 warm sounding ? I have a La Figaro 332C amp now and I think it's too bright sounding.... La Figaro 332C is extremely bright, so if the WA6 is just a little bit on the warm side it will be a big difference....


 

 I would describe it as balanced.  There is actually a bit more treble energy in the WA6 than my VHP2 presents, but the character of the treble is so different it comes across as being more mellow in nearly all cases.  I would not call the Woo6 warm though, at least not by tube standards.  You can vary this quite a bit through tube rolling of course.  I run RCA tubes to bring more warmth and less treble sparkle to my setup.
   
  The La Figaro amps were designed by their creator to be, at least in his view, an ideal match for the HD650 so I wouldn't be surprised if they lean in the bright direction to inject some air and energy into what is widely regarded as a dark and lush headphone.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'm very confused by the adversarial tone in your reply.  I have no idea what that's all about, or am I just misreading things?  To answer your question, the IEM and HD800 have nothing in common except that the WA6/Sophia does an excellent job driving both.  It doesn't require buying one specific amp for HD800 and another amp for JH13Pro.  While there are certainly better amps out there, I was just mentioning one that worked very well with both that didn't break the bank. And, I was simply putting in a disclaimer that just because the WA6/Sophia is good with both doesn't mean that the WA6SE is, because I haven't tried it.  I am using the normal pot with WA2, not a stepped attenuator which I would worry that the stepped might not let a person go low enough with IEM in a high gain amp.  Again, I don't have experience with the stepped attenuator to know if that's an issue with low volume IEM listening.
> 
> Yes, I don't like the heat coming off the ZDT and normally wont use IEM on it; but as hifidk said, I tried it out of curiosity.  I was reviewing the Luxman P-1u last week with everything from IEM to K1000, and using the ZDT as comparison - which meant trying everything with the ZDT as well.  That was actually the first time in almost a year of ownership that I tried the ZDT with my JH13Pro.  It did a fantastic job with them, but you'd have to have a longer cable to let you sit at least 5-6 feet away or you'll cook.  The Luxman P-1u runs nice and cool and is noticeably better than the WA6 with IEM or full size phones, but runs several times the cost of the WA6.
> 
> ...


 

 Don't be confused I was not trying to be adversarial, just trying to claify.
   
  I did look into the Luxman P-1u but it just isn't for me. I have never heard the Apache but I did spend some time with the B52 and I didn't find that amp very wide or spacious, RSA house sound Is just a little to boring for me.
   
  ss


----------



## K_19

I just did something last night that I thought I'd never do again, and once again got a reminder of how a system set up is pretty much mostly about synergy rather than what's better "on paper".
   
  On my standard (no PDPS) WA6/RCA 6DE7/Sophia Princess, the HD800 did sound great, but it just seemed to miss just that bit of bass impact and warmth as an all around headphone, as well as being just _slightly _too airy for my tastes.  Of course I do think that WA6 is a bare minimum that should be fed to this headphone and it lacks power (and hopefully have a WA6SE on the way soon), but I couldn't help but to think that with some adjustments of tubes, I can at least make it a better match for the HD800 for my ears.  So I ended up switching in a rectifier that I hadn't used since I switched it out for the Sophia; the stock Sovtek 5U4G.  As most of you in this thread would know, they're known for their overwhelming bass/warmth with most headphones and is typically relegated to being a "burn-in tube" by many. 
   
  Not expecting much, I switched in the dusty Sovteks, and I was very pleasantly surprised to hear that I liked their synergy with the HD800 than the Sophia Princess (I'm sure a lot of you are going What by now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  It definitely brought the boost in bass and warmth that I was looking for in HD800.  It of course lost a noticeable amount of detail, clarity and soundstage, but I personally find that HD800 on their own are proficient enough in these areas that a little bit lost here doesn't really hurt the overall sound by much.  Basically, I felt that the cost/benefit ratio favoured the Sovteks here for my particular taste in sound signature.  I'm going to hope that the 6SE supplies the bass slam/warmth that would enable me to switch back in the Sophia Princess, but until then I think I'll stick to the Sovteks for most of my listening.


----------



## markmaxx

I bought my WA22 used and the Sophia Princess Rectifier tube that came with the amp. was bad,   I bought a new one (Sophia Princess 274B/n)  right away (from Woo Audio) and tonight the new one is dead.
   
  Any others have any problems with this tube?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> I bought my WA22 used and the Sophia Princess Rectifier tube that came with the amp. was bad,   I bought a new one (Sophia Princess 274B/n)  right away (from Woo Audio) and tonight the new one is dead.
> 
> Any others have any problems with this tube?


 
   
  I have a WA22 on order with the Sophia upgrade.  It should be delivered this Wednesday.  Sorry to hear you are having problems.  Maybe there is something going on in the unit that is causing tubes to fail.  Did you talk to Jack about it?


----------



## h.rav

I have gone thru 2 newer Sophias, both of them died within 1-4 weeks. I would never buy another one. The construction itself looks quite cheap. It's not even a true mesh plate.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> I bought my WA22 used and the Sophia Princess Rectifier tube that came with the amp. was bad,   I bought a new one (Sophia Princess 274B/n)  right away (from Woo Audio) and tonight the new one is dead.
> 
> Any others have any problems with this tube?


 

 Have you talked to the guy that sold you this WA22. If the Princess that came with your used WA22 was DOA that's a red flag. I would open up your WA22 and look for anything that may have been tampered with.
   
  ss


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I received my Sophia Princess 274b mesh plate the 1st week Aug 2008 and it's still running like a champ in my WA6.


----------



## h.rav

Looks like there is a manufacturing problem with their newer batch. I have had 3 Sophias. My first one was fine, I sold it with my WA6.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Have you talked to the guy that sold you this WA22. If the Princess that came with your used WA22 was DOA that's a red flag. I would open up your WA22 and look for anything that may have been tampered with.
> 
> ss


 
  I e mailed the previous owner right away and he paid for most of the cost of the new tube from Jack. I sent an e mail to Woo Audio last night,, we will see what they say, (I hope it has not been 30 days) ,I have 2 other rectifier tubes a Russian tube and one from Holland they both work fine. I read some where here that the Princess wasn't  specked for the WA22. Any one?? read that?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Does anybody have advice for cleaning the pins on the tube sockets?  Despite cleaning the pins on all my tubes using deoxit some of the contacts in the sockets clearly have a dark buildup on them.  I'm worried this could impact sound quality, or so long as I don't hear static or contact issues is it not a problem?  I'm not really sure where this buildup is coming from since the pins are shiny on the tubes I am inserting.


----------



## K_19

Plunged on the WA6SE finally, bought it form myk7000.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





    Hope to see it soon... can't wait!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Does anybody have advice for cleaning the pins on the tube sockets?  Despite cleaning the pins on all my tubes using deoxit some of the contacts in the sockets clearly have a dark buildup on them.  I'm worried this could impact sound quality, or so long as I don't hear static or contact issues is it not a problem?  I'm not really sure where this buildup is coming from since the pins are shiny on the tubes I am inserting.


 

 Maybe Deoxit is causing the problem? In all the years I've been into tubes, I've never had dark buildup on my tube sockets. I clean my tube pins with Flitz Metal Polish using a Q-Tip and or very fine steel wool. After I'm done, I clean off any residue polish with 90% isopropyl alcohol so there's nothing to crud up the sockets.


----------



## K_19

I get those dark residue buildups at the base of the sockets as well.  Never seemed to affect the sound quality though so I just clean it with the Q-tip whenever I tuberoll and such.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I get those dark residue buildups at the base of the sockets as well.  Never seemed to affect the sound quality though so I just clean it with the Q-tip whenever I tuberoll and such.


 

 Are you using Deoxit? What kind of tube sockets do you have?
   
  This 2 year old woo 6 rectifier tube socket's never been cleaned
   
   [size=small]**[/size]


----------



## K_19

My standard WA6 unit is from 2007 I believe.  The sockets look identical to the one in your pic.  I'm not using any kind of liquid or anything (not sure what the deoxit thing is), just used some compressed air and Q-tip to clean it up.  Gonna have to clean it properly soon as I'll be selling it as soon as my 6SE is here.
   
  Also, interestingly, there seems to be more buildup in the driver tube sockets (which is relatively clean on mine) compared to the rectifier sockets... hmm.


----------



## mikemalter

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Well, the WA22 finally arrived and I am getting a first listen.  The word I would use to describe my first 15 minutes is kinetic.  I have my iPod on shuffle and am getting random hits.[/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt]One thing is very apparent - this system is so revealing that the good recording are just wonderful and the bad one's are well yuckolla.[/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt]I have a Cardas balanced cord on order and it should be here soon, so for now it's single ended 'phones.[/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt]Set up was a little dicey though, it took a while before I could figure out the difference between the rectifier and power tubes.  Since I got the tube upgrade the nice engraved tube numbers don't match up.[/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt]One question I do have, and hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me.  Are my Sennheiser HD800's high or low impedance?[/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt][/size][/size]
  [size=10pt][size=10pt]I'll put up some photos in the next few days.  Too much input right now, and I just want to concentrate on the music.[/size][/size]


----------



## sillysally

High impedance.
   
  ss

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> [size=10pt][size=10pt]Well, the WA22 finally arrived and I am getting a first listen.  The word I would use to describe my first 15 minutes is kinetic.  I have my iPod on shuffle and am getting random hits.[/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt]One thing is very apparent - this system is so revealing that the good recording are just wonderful and the bad one's are well yuckolla.[/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size]
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> High impedance.
> 
> ss


 

  
  Thing is if I listen at high impedance, on the second notch it is a little too loud for me.  However I set it to low impedance, I have more volume flexibility.
   
  Does it matter if I select low - I mean I am not degrading the audio am I?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## sillysally

Your HD-800s are rated 300 ohms so what ever Jack tells you to set your WA22 at do it. Up to about 70ohms is considered low and over that is high. I would only use the higher ohms for my HD-800s.
   
  No offense, but you Ipod and SE phone jack is already degrading your audio for a WA22. That said if you have your amp set for the proper ohms for your headphones you are not going to damage your gear.
   
  ss
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thing is if I listen at high impedance, on the second notch it is a little too loud for me.  However I set it to low impedance, I have more volume flexibility.
> 
> Does it matter if I select low - I mean I am not degrading the audio am I?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Actually I had the same problem with my HD800 and WA5 amp.  Since my source (PWD) has a very high output, I was finding that i had very little volume play when the WA5 was set on high impedance.  Jack told me that for that for a headphone like HD800 (300 ohm it didn't really matter).  According to him this matters more on a low impedance phone like a Grado (32 Ohms) or high impedance headphone like Beyer T1 (600 Ohm).  I've been using mine on low for a few weeks not and have not noticed any degradation in sound.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thing is if I listen at high impedance, on the second notch it is a little too loud for me.  However I set it to low impedance, I have more volume flexibility.
> 
> Does it matter if I select low - I mean I am not degrading the audio am I?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> I e mailed the previous owner right away and he paid for most of the cost of the new tube from Jack. I sent an e mail to Woo Audio last night,, we will see what they say, (I hope it has not been 30 days) ,I have 2 other rectifier tubes a Russian tube and one from Holland they both work fine. I read some where here that the Princess wasn't  specked for the WA22. Any one?? read that?


 
  Jack said to try the EML 5U4G for $90.00 more. Money sent!!! But well spent?


----------



## sillysally

No question about money well spent.
   
  I run a EML 274B solid plate in my WA6SE and a pair of EML 5U4G mesh (new version) in my WA5LE.  Never a problem and imo a better sounding tube.
   
  ss
  
  Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Jack said to try the EML 5U4G for $90.00 more. Money sent!!! But well spent?


----------



## dannie01

I'm still waiting for my EML 5U4G mesh plate from Jack.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> [size=10pt][size=10pt]Well, the WA22 finally arrived and I am getting a first listen.  The word I would use to describe my first 15 minutes is kinetic.  I have my iPod on shuffle and am getting random hits.[/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt]*****snip*****[/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt][/size][/size]
> [size=10pt][size=10pt]I'll put up some photos in the next few days.  Too much input right now, and I just want to concentrate on the music.[/size][/size]


 
  Congratulations. You finally got it and I know you can really enjoy it. I wonder how many WA22s are in the Bay Area. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you decide to open up your amp to have a look-see, take some photos as well. It would be great to see the differences between your WA22 and mine, which I got 5 months ago.


----------



## jc9394

monsieurguzel said:


> Actually I had the same problem with my HD800 and WA5 amp.  Since my source (PWD) has a very high output, I was finding that i had very little volume play when the WA5 was set on high impedance.  Jack told me that for that for a headphone like HD800 (300 ohm it didn't really matter).  According to him this matters more on a low impedance phone like a Grado (32 Ohms) or high impedance headphone like Beyer T1 (600 Ohm).  I've been using mine on low for a few weeks not and have not noticed any degradation in sound.





 monsieurguzel, how do you like your Perfectwave and it's synergy Woo? I have one coming next week to feed my WA6 for now until I'm able to afford WA22.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Maybe Deoxit is causing the problem? In all the years I've been into tubes, I've never had dark buildup on my tube sockets. I clean my tube pins with Flitz Metal Polish using a Q-Tip and or very fine steel wool. After I'm done, I clean off any residue polish with 90% isopropyl alcohol so there's nothing to crud up the sockets.


 

 I went with Deoxit because it is recommended as a cleaning solution for tube pins by a lot of people.  What I have NOT done is steel wool or avery board the pins first so perhaps that was my problem.  I'm mostly wondering if I'm going to shock myself to death if I stick a Q-tip down in the sockets to clean them out.  For the record, I have the new 6 clip style tube sockets.  They have the same spring clips as the upgraded Teflon sockets now.


----------



## Lance6881888

Select some old tubes, will issue a more wonderful sound.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I'm still waiting for my EML 5U4G mesh plate from Jack.


 
  Well at-least you have the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B and that is a very nice rectifier but I think you will not go back once you get your EML 5U4G mesh.
   
  I got my second set of TS 6SN7GT round plate (1942) from John today, ordered them last Wednesday.
  If you do get these tubes I would not use any of the Deoxit or the like on them.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I went with Deoxit because it is recommended as a cleaning solution for tube pins by a lot of people.  What I have NOT done is steel wool or avery board the pins first so perhaps that was my problem.  I'm mostly wondering if I'm going to shock myself to death if I stick a Q-tip down in the sockets to clean them out.  For the record, I have the new 6 clip style tube sockets.  They have the same spring clips as the upgraded Teflon sockets now.


 

 You can clean the rectifier tube socket with a Q-Tip. You need to cut off the end and soak the shaft in Alcohol. Do not use anything else that will leave a residue. Also be very careful not to break off the Q-Tip in the socket. If it fits too tight, don't force it!. 
   

   
  mine looked clean, but I was able to get a little bit of crap out


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> Actually I had the same problem with my HD800 and WA5 amp.  Since my source (PWD) has a very high output, I was finding that i had very little volume play when the WA5 was set on high impedance.  Jack told me that for that for a headphone like HD800 (300 ohm it didn't really matter).  According to him this matters more on a low impedance phone like a Grado (32 Ohms) or high impedance headphone like Beyer T1 (600 Ohm).  I've been using mine on low for a few weeks not and have not noticed any degradation in sound.


 

 Why wouldn't you simply turn down the PWD output level then, since it _is_ a preamp?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Congratulations. You finally got it and I know you can really enjoy it. I wonder how many WA22s are in the Bay Area.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton,
   
  I'll open it up this weekend and shoot the inside and post something.  I think it's a great idea to look at the workmanship in the amps.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Your HD-800s are rated 300 ohms so what ever Jack tells you to set your WA22 at do it. Up to about 70ohms is considered low and over that is high. I would only use the higher ohms for my HD-800s.
> 
> No offense, but you Ipod and SE phone jack is already degrading your audio for a WA22. That said if you have your amp set for the proper ohms for your headphones you are not going to damage your gear.
> 
> ss


 

 No offense taken.  I just got my balanced Cardas cable today, so I am fully balanced.
   
  Regarding the iPod.  This is an interesting area for discussion.  I think my audio is not degraded with the iPod for the following reasons, first I am ripping to Apple Lossless, and second I am getting a digital out through the Wadia.
   
  I have done listening tests where I compared ripped Apple lossless music to CD's and I could not hear the difference.  However I did not have the WA22 at that time, and I am going to try it again when everything breaks in and settles down.
   
  Thoughts?
   
  As for my current listening experience, even after 10 hours, I can hear changes in the music.  I am really looking forward to my audio experience as everything breaks in.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Generally I am very happy with the PWD since it is really a world class DAC with lots of functionality.  I tend to like it because it is so transparents and very holographic in sound, meaning that I can tweak the sound that I desire with the amp / tubes that I use instead.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> monsieurguzel, how do you like your Perfectwave and it's synergy Woo? I have one coming next week to feed my WA6 for now until I'm able to afford WA22.


 

 For a while I wan't a big fan of using the volume control on the PWD since it gets too fussy with two different volume outputs, but then realize that I could just have it fixed at about 75 and leave it there permanently.  Also 300B tubes tend to have a slight hiss to them (like many tube amps do) and I get very self concious of it when the music isn't playing, so switching to a lower impedance actually lowers that floor noise quite a bit.  In your opinion do you think the setting should be kept at the higher impedance?

  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Why wouldn't you simply turn down the PWD output level then, since it _is_ a preamp?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> Generally I am very happy with the PWD since it is really a world class DAC with lots of functionality.  I tend to like it because it is so transparents and very holographic in sound, meaning that I can tweak the sound that I desire with the amp / tubes that I use instead.
> 
> 
> For a while I wan't a big fan of using the volume control on the PWD since it gets too fussy with two different volume outputs, but then realize that I could just have it fixed at about 75 and leave it there permanently.  Also 300B tubes tend to have a slight hiss to them (like many tube amps do) and I get very self concious of it when the music isn't playing, so switching to a lower impedance actually lowers that floor noise quite a bit.  In your opinion do you think the setting should be kept at the higher impedance?


 

 I would set it for how it sounds best to you.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> No offense taken.  I just got my balanced Cardas cable today, so I am fully balanced.
> 
> Regarding the iPod.  This is an interesting area for discussion.  I think my audio is not degraded with the iPod for the following reasons, first I am ripping to Apple Lossless, and second I am getting a digital out through the Wadia.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you using a balanced XLR input to connect your source to your amp?
  I also have a Cardas for my HD-800s (SE) and like it very much. As long as you have both XLR balanced input and output you should hear a nice difference, balanced amps are really not made for SE phone jacks if you want to maximize what a balanced amp can do.
   
  I have one simple goal when I setup a audio system, and that is to go directly from my source player to my amp via quality cables (the shorter the better). With a amp like yours or mine I think a per amp or external DAC or anything that brakes my interconnect cables is a wast and can degrade the audio that you are using. I want to hear what is on the CD/SACD (DSD)/DVD-A that I am playing the way it is intended to hear.
   
  Yes I was once very good at ripping but the problem with ripping is you will loose some information that is on the disc. Yes over all the rip will sound very good but you may be loosing some micro information (back ground). I didn't spend the money and time to get my rig right only to loose something or to colorize the audio.
   
  I use a Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce edition as my source, King Cobra interconnects directly to my WA5LE, then my Cardas SE plugged into the high impedance jack for my HD-800s. This is the DAT/chip used in the BD-83SE.
  8-channel Sabre32 Ultra (ES9016) DAC chip by stacking 4 DACs for each of the Left and Right channels, using a discrete 2ch analog RCA out.
   
  ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> For a while I wan't a big fan of using the volume control on the PWD since it gets too fussy with two different volume outputs, but then realize that I could just have it fixed at about 75 and leave it there permanently.  Also 300B tubes tend to have a slight hiss to them (like many tube amps do) and I get very self concious of it when the music isn't playing, so switching to a lower impedance actually lowers that floor noise quite a bit.  In your opinion do you think the setting should be kept at the higher impedance?


 
  "slight hiss" There should be no hiss using the high or low imp jacks. Like I suggested to you before adjust your R/L attenuators. But I think the hiss is not coming from your WA5 but from something in your chain.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> Generally I am very happy with the PWD since it is really a world class DAC with lots of functionality.  I tend to like it because it is so transparents and very holographic in sound, meaning that I can tweak the sound that I desire with the amp / tubes that I use instead.
> 
> 
> For a while I wan't a big fan of using the volume control on the PWD since it gets too fussy with two different volume outputs, but then realize that I could just have it fixed at about 75 and leave it there permanently.  Also 300B tubes tend to have a slight hiss to them (like many tube amps do) and I get very self concious of it when the music isn't playing, so switching to a lower impedance actually lowers that floor noise quite a bit.  In your opinion do you think the setting should be kept at the higher impedance?


 
   
  Thanks, I'm sure I will be happy with it.


----------



## DoingOK

Nevermind........can't get pictures to show up now.  *sigh*


----------



## flaming_june

I am going insane waiting for my WA6.  Jack said they're still waiting for a part to come in that was delayed.  
   
  Going insane!


----------



## mikemalter

WA22 update.  After the 12th hour of break-in, I am noticing something very unusual that only happens in speakers, and that is my headphones are disappearing.
   
  What I mean by that is prior to this, audio through headphones has been very directional, that is my experience of the music has been via an awarness that I am listening through headphones.  Today for the first time, the headphones disappeared!  I was hearing music outside of the headphones, I was not aware I was hearing through the headphones, but the music was just there.  Like listening to music on my speakers, I am not aware of the speakers, the music is just there.
   
  I got the full tube upgrade package for the WA22 and I am hoping that as the tubes and the unit break in, these surprises continue.
   
  Has anybody else had this experience of their headphones disappearing?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> WA22 update.  After the 12th hour of break-in, I am noticing something very unusual that only happens in speakers, and that is my headphones are disappearing.
> 
> What I mean by that is prior to this, audio through headphones has been very directional, that is my experience of the music has been via an awarness that I am listening through headphones.  Today for the first time, the headphones disappeared!  I was hearing music outside of the headphones, I was not aware I was hearing through the headphones, but the music was just there.  Like listening to music on my speakers, I am not aware of the speakers, the music is just there.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, with a similar sounding rig and gear to yours.


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> I am going insane waiting for my WA6.  Jack said they're still waiting for a part to come in that was delayed.
> 
> Going insane!


 
   
  I just got my WA6 but I havent tried it yet (I'm still listening to the pair of HE-60s I have on loan  )


----------



## oldwine

I just got my WA2 from another head-fier in here, what i find the first thing is, hot!!!!! it generates lots of heat after turning on for about half hour. Is it normal??
   
  Bos my last amp, Audiotailor's Jade virtually no heat, just a bit warm only. Of course, i know the no. of tubes used are different (2 vs 6), but i never think WA2 will generate such heat at all.

 I have rolled the tubes to RCA 6AS7G with Amperex E88CC, and i keep the EZ80 as stock at this moment.
   
  For my first impression, i find this can help my DT880/600 explore its full potental!!!! with enough power and dynamics, my DT800/600 jumps to high level, now it can handle almost all kinds of music!


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> I just got my WA2 from another head-fier in here, what i find the first thing is, hot!!!!! it generates lots of heat after turning on for about half hour. Is it normal??
> 
> Bos my last amp, Audiotailor's Jade virtually no heat, just a bit warm only. Of course, i know the no. of tubes used are different (2 vs 6), but i never think WA2 will generate such heat at all.
> 
> ...


 

 With the exception of the last sentence, you just posted exactly the same thing in the WA2 thread - sorry but I think you need a bit more patience.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> I just got my WA2 from another head-fier in here, what i find the first thing is, hot!!!!! it generates lots of heat after turning on for about half hour. Is it normal??
> 
> Bos my last amp, Audiotailor's Jade virtually no heat, just a bit warm only. Of course, i know the no. of tubes used are different (2 vs 6), but i never think WA2 will generate such heat at all.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes!!! My WA2 gets very hot as well, but I've had mine for 2 months now and the heat it generates has been very consistent. It's, of course, not fry-an-egg hot. The sides of the chassis is just as hot as the top of those silver boxes behind the tubes.
   
  I currently have Mullard EZ80 with square getter and RCA 6AS7G and it is a perfect combination to my ear. The 6AS7G is so rich and fluid compared to the stock 6080 which seemed a teensy bit dry (but still nice and revealing)--almost ss analytical. I'm sticking with the RCA/Mullard combo.


----------



## dannie01

For the HEAT issue, in my WA22, found that if the GEC 6080 is sitting in the amp, it will deliver more heat than when using the TS 5998s. It feel luke warm with 5998 but very warm with 6080. Having checked with some data sheets of the power tubes, the 5998 should drawn more current than the 6080 but that's weird the amp is getting more warmer when the 6080s are plugged in.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks for the help abtglenn.  I'll have to do that before I stick an EML tube in the socket.  I think my problem was not sanding the pins before using deoxit.  Even Skylab uses caig progold on his tubes, which is basically a different formulation of deoxit that is designed to prevent new oxidation on the metal.  I just should have been more thorough, but I was afraid of bending tube pins.


----------



## hodgjy

When did you order yours?  I ordered a WA3 two weeks ago and the wait is also killing me.

  
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> I am going insane waiting for my WA6.  Jack said they're still waiting for a part to come in that was delayed.
> 
> Going insane!


----------



## flaming_june

April 21st!  This is from 12 days ago:
   
  "We are waiting for a missing part which will arrive next week. Thanks for your patience.
   
  Jack"
   
  Jjinh let us know how you like it.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks for the info.  I ordered on May 10 and was told it would ship in 3-4 weeks, so it's still well within that time frame.  I'm just growing very impatient because I'm so excited to get this product!!
   
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> April 21st!  This is from 12 days ago:
> 
> "We are waiting for a missing part which will arrive next week. Thanks for your patience.
> 
> Jack"


----------



## mikemalter

I'm really sorry for you guys who are waiting for parts.  I have had my WA22 for only a few days now (4) and have only about 24 hours on it.  My wife listened this morning and said it was like liquid light.  I can hear the soundstage starting to fill out and the bass is to die for.
   
  Hope you guys get your stuff soon!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm really sorry for you guys who are waiting for parts.  I have had my WA22 for only a few days now (4) and have only about 24 hours on it.  My wife listened this morning and said it was like liquid light.  I can hear the soundstage starting to fill out and the bass is to die for.
> 
> Hope you guys get your stuff soon!


 

 The wait is absolute agony. You think to yourself: "What can I do to not think about the wait while I wait?" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But no matter what. Whether the wait is 3 weeks or an afternoon because you're at work and it's at the post office, you'll quickly get over it and forget about the wait when you've listened to the amp. Like your first love--It'll take you away and make you forget about your problems. Am I a Woo Romantic? YES! Be patient while waiting because you'll certainly reap the rewards of the seemingly unbearable wait.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I waited 4 weeks for my modified 3+. Understand how it feels. Buy tubes for the amp. It will help with the time.


----------



## hodgjy

I already ordered a new power tube (Sylvania 7236) from The Tube Store.  It should arrive this week, hopefully not too long before my actual amp arrives.  I spend a long time reading as many Woo threads as I could, and I decided I must try the 7236 as a power tube option.
  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> I waited 4 weeks for my modified 3+. Understand how it feels. Buy tubes for the amp. It will help with the time.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I bought the 7236 like you. Don't use it. It is OK. Use a Bendix 6080WB or a GEC A1834. For preamp tubes use a pair of Tesla E88CC Rhodium.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm gonna try everything as close to stock as possible for a while (except for the 7236) while I get used to the rig.  This is my first tube amp and my first set of "good" cans (2005 yr 250 ohm DT 880).  I want to work my way into the hobby before I go crazy just rolling tubes.  This is going to be a fun hobby, but I'm gonna go at it a little slow at first.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The wait is absolute agony. You think to yourself: "What can I do to not think about the wait while I wait?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I downloaded a photo of the WA22, printed it out, and placed it where it would go in my setup.
   
  Say, how long have you had your WA22 now?  How many hours?  How many hours did it take before it was finally broken in - that is I am assuming it has been.
   
  I noticed that you got the PWT - mostly people get the PWD.  What do you think of it?  Is your modified DL-III worth keeping for a while compared to the PWD?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I downloaded a photo of the WA22, printed it out, and placed it where it would go in my setup.
> 
> Say, how long have you had your WA22 now?  How many hours?  How many hours did it take before it was finally broken in - that is I am assuming it has been.
> 
> I noticed that you got the PWT - mostly people get the PWD.  What do you think of it?  Is your modified DL-III worth keeping for a while compared to the PWD?


 
  That's funny because I printed out Seamaster's WA22 and taped it to my wall at work and people would ask me, "What is that?" I'd tell them and they would quietly leave. I've almost totally stopped talking about tubes and amps at work unless of course I can't help myself which is usually when I get a shipment of NOS.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'd say that my WA22 has never sounded better. The sound is richer and deeper than before. I've stuck to using an 5R4GY that atbglenn gave to me. (Thanks Glenn.) This is the only tube with virtually no hum--all the other rectifiers hum very slightly which is more noticeable when using it with HI impedance hp otherwise it's very quiet.
   
  I decided not to get the PWD because I already have 3 DACs. I use the DL-III+mod IV when listening to the WA22 and the Mhdt Havana+jj6386 on the WA2 as a preamp to my speakers. The Havana does not upsample (max is 96/24) which is a feature of the PWD (native mode, max 192/24--so far). I thought that I'd wait for the optional Bridge to be released before I get it. I got the PWT because it does not error-correct and the data is fed into memory and then through a digital lens before it outputs to a DAC. The PWT TosLink goes to the DLIII and the coax goes to the Havana. The Havana is very clear and precise even with a tube buffer and the DLIII is very authoritative yet pleasing to my ear for an ss device--the punch is there and the sound stage is great. My hearing is not as good as other members' so that's about the extent of my vocabulary or the extent of what I can detect. Bottom line--I'm loving every listening moment and every non-listening moment just knowing I can fire it up when the need arises (unless, of course, I'm at work).


----------



## atbglenn

Hey Clayton,
   
  It's my pleasure buddy


----------



## mikemalter

Clayton, how many hours do you have on your WA22?
   
  Also I got the tube upgrade package from Jack, and it is dead silent.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm gonna try everything as close to stock as possible for a while (except for the 7236) while I get used to the rig.  This is my first tube amp and my first set of "good" cans (2005 yr 250 ohm DT 880).  I want to work my way into the hobby before I go crazy just rolling tubes.  This is going to be a fun hobby, but I'm gonna go at it a little slow at first.


 

 Good luck with  "I'm gonna go at it a little slow at first." I started with a Sony  portable CDP. and a set of Ety ER4P iem. Now wow I have gone crazy! What I have assembled,,,is well {too much} and I have another amp ordered.....


----------



## hodgjy

It's not so much that my patience will be the controlling factor.  It will be my pocketbook.  I don't want to put myself in the position of deciding if I want to eat that week or roll some new tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Good luck with  "I'm gonna go at it a little slow at first." I started with a Sony  portable CDP. and a set of Ety ER4P iem. Now wow I have gone crazy! What I have assembled,,,is well {too much} and I have another amp ordered.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Clayton, how many hours do you have on your WA22?
> 
> Also I got the tube upgrade package from Jack, and it is dead silent.


 

 I would say that I have about 120 hours listening time on my WA22. And I was able to listen to an EML 5U4G solid plate from Seamaster and that tube was silent as the grave. I have ordered one from Jack (the mesh plate is all that is currently available so that's the one I'm getting). Apparently it is still on back order.


----------



## sillysally

Both of the EML 5U4G and 274B solid plates are not being made anymore.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I would say that I have about 120 hours listening time on my WA22. And I was able to listen to an EML 5U4G solid plate from Seamaster and that tube was silent as the grave. I have ordered one from Jack (the mesh plate is all that is currently available so that's the one I'm getting). Apparently it is still on back order.


 
  My  shipping order:..... Said EML,,Mesh plate, got shipped today
   
   

```
[size=9pt] Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC. A package will ship to you on 05/25/2010 via U.S. Postal Service Shipping item(s): EML 5U4G Mesh Plate x1[/size]
```


----------



## dannie01

Got my shipping info today.
   
  Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.
  A package will ship to you on 05/26/2010 via U.S. Postal Service
  The shipment tracker number is CJxxxxxxxxxUS
  Shipping item(s):
 Vacuum tube, EML5U4G


----------



## Clayton SF

Clayton
  SF CA
 The shipment tracker number is xxx
 Shipping item(s):
 EML 5U4G Mesh Plate x1
   
  Me too! I guess we'll bring down the world's grid when we all fire up at once.


----------



## mikemalter

Funny forum, it's like everybody is getting something all at the same time.  Fun to read about.  Hope all the stuff sounds GREAT!


----------



## flaming_june

Can the Sophia electric 300b mesh be used with the WA6 and if it's possible how does it sound?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Cleaning tube pins is harder than it seems.  I've tried just about every piece of advice I've come across with little luck.  Steel wool doesn't seem to remove the oxidation and just disintegrates into a mess while you rub the pins.  An avery board cannot reach the inner sides, nor can fine grit sandpaper.  I'm not really sure how important polishing the pins is anyway, I personally don't think it will improve signal transfer.  I'm just trying to prevent black grime from building up in the sockets. 
   
  Does anybody have any pro tips they can pass along?


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


flaming_june said:


> Can the Sophia electric 300b mesh be used with the WA6 and if it's possible how does it sound?


 

 No


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Cleaning tube pins is harder than it seems.  I've tried just about every piece of advice I've come across with little luck.  Steel wool doesn't seem to remove the oxidation and just disintegrates into a mess while you rub the pins.  An avery board cannot reach the inner sides, nor can fine grit sandpaper.  I'm not really sure how important polishing the pins is anyway, I personally don't think it will improve signal transfer.  I'm just trying to prevent black grime from building up in the sockets.
> 
> Does anybody have any pro tips they can pass along?


 


 How I clean the pins may not be a pro tip but works fine for me. I clean all tube pins by rubbing with a ball-pen eraser, of course only the outside I can rub but the pins after rubbed look shine.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Can the Sophia electric 300b mesh be used with the WA6 and if it's possible how does it sound?


 

 The larger tube in the WA6 is the Rectifier which converts AC (alternating current) into DC (direct current) A 300B is single triode output tube, a completely different animal. The small based output tubes used in the WA6 are dual triodes. They also serve as drivers. Since the 300B is only an output tube, it's 100% incompatible.


----------



## DoingOK

acccccckkkkk.  Can't get pictures to post here anymore.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





doingok said:


> acccccckkkkk.  Can't get pictures to post here anymore.


 


 What's up?


----------



## Clayton SF

> 300B / B52


 
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> The larger tube in the WA6 is the Rectifier which converts AC (alternating current) into DC (direct current) A 300B is single triode output tube, a completely different animal. The small based output tubes used in the WA6 are dual triodes. They also serve as drivers. Since the 300B is only an output tube, it's 100% incompatible.


 
  Hey Glenn, you handsome devil you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You're getting younger at every post! Great Avatar.
   
  So the 300B is 100% incompatible, yes? Does that mean that if I were to plug it into the rectifier socket I'd blow up the amp along with myself? Even the tube's name "300B" sounds sinister. Like a bomb or something.


----------



## El_Doug

a 300b wouldnt even fit into the rectifier socket  
   

  
  Quote: 





			
				Clayton SF said:
			
		

> So the 300B is 100% incompatible, yes? Does that mean that if I were to plug it into the rectifier socket I'd blow up the amp along with myself? Even the tube's name "300B" sounds sinister. Like a bomb or something.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Glenn, you handsome devil you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

   Clayton,
That's a picture of me from 1992. I was only 40 at the time. lol!  BTW, the 300B is a 4 pin in a different configuration. As El_Doug said, it wouldn't fit anyway


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> How I clean the pins may not be a pro tip but works fine for me. I clean all tube pins by rubbing with a ball-pen eraser, of course only the outside I can rub but the pins after rubbed look shine.


 
  I will give this a try too.  Thanks.


----------



## Denys

Cool !!! My headphone stands have been shipped....
   
  I just hope Jack changed my order as requested !!!  Can't wait to get them...
   
  As an update, my Wa6 SE is three weeks old and it really starts to improve now...
   
  One question for you guys: let's say you wish to listen to music, but you only have one hour ahead of you. Would you still use your Woo or would you use another amp or if you do not have another one, forget about it?
   
  I am asking, because this happens to me quite often. For that reason, I decided to keep my ASL, and not open my WaSE just for an hour...
   
  Let me know what you guys do...
   
  Thanks
   
  Denys


----------



## atbglenn

Deny's there are many times I listen to just one CD with my WA6. Yes it sounds best when it's been on for a while, but it still sounds more than good enough from the start. As far as shortening tube life, so far after 2 years, no issues.


----------



## dannie01

I will turn on my amps when I'm home everyday. So I can listen whichever I want to even I just have only one hour but fortunately normally more than that.


----------



## K_19

I always found that the whole warm-up time thing is bit overstated.  Yes, there indeed is a difference in sound before/after warm up but I find the improvements marginal at best.  I typically only warm it for about a minute, then listen with it straight away.  Jack himself has said that this has no effect on tube life or anything like that.


----------



## Clayton SF

I listen to CDs and vinyl and I have my turntable connected to a tube phono stage and that in turn is connected to the WA2. I usually have an hour to listen to music before I leave on my trek to work 7 blocks down a San Francisco hill. Anyway, that means the tubes in both the phono stage and Woo have to be on. I usually turn them both on and then go make some coffee. By the time my coffee is done dripping (just 1 cup) the preamp and Woo have been on for about 5 minutes. That's when I give a listen and they both sound very good in the morning for just an hour. Especially when I have ogres and trolls to tackle at work after I arrive at my destination--work.


----------



## sillysally

Sure would use my WA6SE for one hour, and the tubes in that amp don't need a lot of warm-up. I always let my WA6SE warm up for about 5 min. But the more short on and off  probably will shorten your tube life.
  
  Quote: 





denys said:


> Cool !!! My headphone stands have been shipped....
> 
> I just hope Jack changed my order as requested !!!  Can't wait to get them...
> 
> ...


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Sure would use my WA6SE for one hour, and the tubes in that amp don't need a lot of warm-up. I always let my WA6SE warm up for about 5 min. *But the more short on and off  probably will shorten your tube life.*


 
   
  This is a question I asked Jack a few months ago and this is what he said:
   
_2) I know the length for tube warmup for amp varies, but what I was wondering was; is it actually harmful for the amp/tube if I crank up the music right away without warming it? I realize the sound won't be optimal in the beginning but just wondering if this is actually a harmful practice to not warm it._
   
_J: No harm at all._
   
  That was for the standard WA6 but I doubt 6SE would be any different.  I'd say it is safe to listen to it right away if you desire to.


----------



## sillysally

Of course it is safe, that's not what I was saying. I was just saying what I did with my WA6SE.
  And I am sure if you ask Jack about the short on offs he will tell you the same thing as I said.
   
   
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> This is a question I asked Jack a few months ago and this is what he said:
> 
> _2) I know the length for tube warmup for amp varies, but what I was wondering was; is it actually harmful for the amp/tube if I crank up the music right away without warming it? I realize the sound won't be optimal in the beginning but just wondering if this is actually a harmful practice to not warm it._
> 
> ...


----------



## K_19

Yeah, the short on-off (like within space of half a minute or shorter) is probably not good for it, or with any electronics in general.  Misread that on/*off* part.  Just wanted to say that once the tube is lighted up and the hum is gone (which is like like 10 seconds I guess?), it's pretty much technically ready to go and you won't harm the amp or the tube.
   
  In other news, my WA6SE is stuck just across town in the post office.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Damn customs.  Can't wait to hear it with my HD800! (expecting to hear good amount of improvements compared to my current stock WA6).


----------



## sillysally

I misread you also, I thought you already had your amp. I love my WA6SE max with my HD-800, imo that setup is the best bang for the buck.
  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Yeah, the short on-off (like within space of half a minute or shorter) is probably not good for it, or with any electronics in general.  Misread that on/*off* part.  Just wanted to say that once the tube is lighted up and the hum is gone (which is like like 10 seconds I guess?), it's pretty much technically ready to go and you won't harm the amp or the tube.
> 
> In other news, my WA6SE is stuck just across town in the post office.
> 
> ...


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Yeah, the short on-off (like within space of half a minute or shorter) is probably not good for it, or with any electronics in general.  Misread that on/*off* part.  Just wanted to say that once the tube is lighted up and the hum is gone (which is like like 10 seconds I guess?), it's pretty much technically ready to go and you won't harm the amp or the tube.
> 
> In other news, my WA6SE is stuck just across town in the post office.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you guys,
   
  I might put my ASL for sale after all, as I am aiming to buy a dedicated DAC for my WA6SE (maybe Wyred 4 Sound, I'll see).
   
  K19, my WA6SE arrived at the border on April 20 and was delivered to me in Montreal on May 3, three weeks ago....Jack was nice enough to postpone the warranty of the Sophia Princess up until June 3 in case of....
   
  Like you, I was wondering if someone at the customs took the amp home for a weekend or two !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, you'll love the HD800 with the WA6SE....it's a pure delight !!!
   
  Good luck and thanks guys for your advice !!
   
  Denys


----------



## Red_Devil_24

I just pull the trigger on a used WA6 in the FS forum. Can't wait to listen to it, probably next week.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Now I need a better Dac


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> I just pull the trigger on a used WA6 in the FS forum. Can't wait to listen to it, probably next week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Bravo!!!
   
  Just hope it will not be stock at the borders like it happened for K19 & myself....
   
  As for the DAC.....it will be my next purchase....but later on.....says my wallet !!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Denys


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





denys said:


> Bravo!!!
> 
> Just hope it will not be stock at the borders like it happened for K19 & myself....
> 
> ...


 


 It's from another Canadian member so no worries about custom. As for the DAC my wallet is telling me the same thing.


----------



## Mogul

I am seriously considering the WA2 to pair with the Beyerdynamic T1 I have on the way. Is this a good combo? Should I consider the WA6 instead? I the pre-amp function of the WA2 is certainly desirable in my system configuration.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> I just pull the trigger on a used WA6 in the FS forum. Can't wait to listen to it, probably next week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats Red_Devil_24 and welcome to join us.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well a box from Woo Audio arrived 5 minutes ago. Small light package. It is the EML 5U4G mesh plate! I can't wait to listen to it after work. I'll certainly have a very nice weekend now. Glenn, I'll get you measurements and photos tonight if I can and post them here. I've read that this tube is a little smaller than the last version. Of course the tube is new and will only get better as time goes on.


----------



## oldwine

I don't have T1, but i have used DT880/600 with WA2. It is a great match at all. WA2 can deliver its potential with enough power.
   
  However, i didn't use its pre-amp function. Hope can give a picture about the combination.
   
  PS. most people using WA2 with Senn., glad to know people using it with Beyers as well as AKGs.
   
  Quote: 





mogul said:


> I am seriously considering the WA2 to pair with the Beyerdynamic T1 I have on the way. Is this a good combo? Should I consider the WA6 instead? I the pre-amp function of the WA2 is certainly desirable in my system configuration.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well a box from Woo Audio arrived 5 minutes ago. Small light package. It is the EML 5U4G mesh plate! I can't wait to listen to it after work. I'll certainly have a very nice weekend now. Glenn, I'll get you measurements and photos tonight if I can and post them here. I've read that this tube is a little smaller than the last version. Of course the tube is new and will only get better as time goes on.


 


 So good to living in US, just checked with the USPS website, my tube is still in the air smewhere within the planet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, within the planet is good. I hear my neighbors to the north have customs to deal with. That's crazy considering that Jack is in New York and Canada is closer to him than San Francisco and still Canadians have to wait a while for parcels to clear customs before they can get their deliveries. So wrong. I mailed a CD player 2 months ago to have it repaired and it finally arrived in Canada after clearing customs. That was 3 weeks ago.


----------



## dannie01

Customs in some countries is really a trouble.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> So good to living in US, just checked with the USPS website, my tube is still in the air smewhere within the planet.


 

 Somewhere within the planet? You mean shipping hell?


----------



## dannie01

Hopefully not straight to the hell, my friend.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

The thing with Canadian custom is, don't use USPS or Canada Post if you want it fast. UPS or Fed Ex only stay a day or less in customs.


----------



## K_19

Well, it has cleared customs now but now Canada Post is seemingly taking more than 2 days to actually process the thing for shipping.  And with the weekend coming up I won't be getting till at least Monday.  So tempted to just drive to mississauga (a relatively short drive west), visit the warehouse and just take it off their slow and incompetant hands in person but obviously it doesn't work that way...


----------



## hodgjy

Has anyone heard anything from Jack Woo lately?  I emailed him yesterday morning about the status of my order (it's approaching the ETA date) and haven't heard anything.  Maybe he left for the long (USA) holiday weekend?


----------



## Clayton SF

I heard from Jack 3 days ago when he emailed me to tell me that my EML 5U4G order was ready for shipping.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well a box from Woo Audio arrived 5 minutes ago. Small light package. It is the EML 5U4G mesh plate! I can't wait to listen to it after work. I'll certainly have a very nice weekend now. Glenn, I'll get you measurements and photos tonight if I can and post them here. I've read that this tube is a little smaller than the last version. Of course the tube is new and will only get better as time goes on.


 

 Small box? Huge for a tube. I got mine today,,it;s in the amp burning in..
  Woo Audio packed my EML tube incredibly well,,the box the tube comes in is nice too..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Small box? Huge for a tube. I got mine today,,it;s in the amp burning in..  Woo Audio packed my EML tube incredibly well,,the box the tube comes in is nice too..


 

 Fantastic! I am an hour away from burning mine in, too. Can't wait to get home.


----------



## Pepsi

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Has anyone heard anything from Jack Woo lately?  I emailed him yesterday morning about the status of my order (it's approaching the ETA date) and haven't heard anything.  Maybe he left for the long (USA) holiday weekend?


 

 Jack probably has his reasons for the hold up, regardless i can promise you he will get back to you if you were starting to doubt.


----------



## Scooterboy

I think I am getting ready to pull the plug and go for the Woo 6SE. I  presently have a Woo 6. Is the 6SE a meaningful upgrade over the 6?


----------



## flaming_june

I heard from Jack a while ago.  He mentioned parts delayed by customs.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> April 21st!  This is from 12 days ago:
> 
> "We are waiting for a missing part which will arrive next week. Thanks for your patience.
> 
> ...


 
  Are you still waiting for your Woo because of missing parts and customs?


----------



## WindyCityCy

My EML 5U4G Mesh appears to have died 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It worked fine last night and today I go to turn on my WA22 and no sound comes out.  I replaced the EML with the stock rectifier that Jack provides and everything works fine.  Has anyone else had an EML die?  I bought it through Jack.  Hopefully there is a good warranty for such an expensive tube.


----------



## jc9394

It should have one year from EML.


----------



## jc9394

scooterboy said:


> I think I am getting ready to pull the plug and go for the Woo 6SE. I  presently have a Woo 6. Is the 6SE a meaningful upgrade over the 6?







 Not night and day but it is a upgrade. Personally I prefer the maxxed WA6 over regular SE, the mid are more smooth. I did not get a chance to audition the maxxed SE.

 Why not take a look at the WA22, just in case you want to go balanced in the future. Jack did said the WA22 SE mode is about the same as WA6SE.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> My EML 5U4G Mesh appears to have died
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I just got mine today. I'm now on the 5th hour of burn in. Let's see what happens tomorrow morning when I fire this tube up again. I haven't turned it off since I turned in on 5 hours ago. Of course contact Jack, he'll take care of everything. That EML is too young to peter out. I must say, it is one of the best rectifier tubes that I've listened to in my WA22.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Yes I really miss the EML already.  Of course it had to die right before Can Jam.  I'm sure Jack will be busy this week so I better get used to living without it for awhile.


----------



## Clayton SF

These photos aren't the best of the EML 5U4G mesh plate but here they are. Today's delivery from Jack Wu.


----------



## zeroeight

So how does someone get a Woo Amp in Hong Kong.  Is it all mail order or are there dealers here.  Not used to buying $1000+ equipment on the internet and getting shipped halfway around the world.  Can we buy spare tubes in HK?  Sorry for the newbie questions.


----------



## dannie01

Very nice pics Clayton.


----------



## regal

Did anyone read the endorsement from Steve Hoffman on the Woo 300B  amp?    I'll admit I was turned off to Woo with their Woo6 & 6SE (not impressed by the SQ or reliability),   but an endorsement from the worlds best mastering engineer is pretty earth shattering.   Mr. Hoffman bought and loved the 300B speaker + Headphone version,  if I don't listen to speakers is the headphone only version as good?   Its $1000 less expensive.


----------



## sillysally

Mail order/internet from Woo Audio for new only. Sure you can buy spare tubes in HK. Or the Internet, there are a lot of great tubes in other country's that ship worldwide.
  
  Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> So how does someone get a Woo Amp in Hong Kong.  Is it all mail order or are there dealers here.  Not used to buying $1000+ equipment on the internet and getting shipped halfway around the world.  Can we buy spare tubes in HK?  Sorry for the newbie questions.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> So how does someone get a Woo Amp in Hong Kong.  Is it all mail order or are there dealers here.  Not used to buying $1000+ equipment on the internet and getting shipped halfway around the world.  Can we buy spare tubes in HK?  Sorry for the newbie questions.


 


 I have my second amp the WA22 from Woo Audio arrived safely on April. Yes, you can only order them via internet and No, there is no dealer in Hong Kong. Normally Jack will ship their amp with USPS with tracking and insured, if you want them to be received in a more secure way, you can ask Jack to ship with FEDEX or DHL because it's at your cost. The spare tubes are eaisly find in some tube stores in HK but they are relatively more expensive than on Ebay or some reliable tube stores that you can order via internet.


----------



## sillysally

The WA5LE is $650 less than the WA5. With the right source, tubes and upgrades my WA5LE is terrific with my HD-800s.
  I am very happy I upgraded from my WA6SE max.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> The WA5LE is $650 less than the WA5. With the right source,* tubes and upgrades *my WA5LE is terrific with my HD-800s.


 

 And the WA5LE is $550 over than the WA22 in stock form . But that is why I order the WA22 when I'm struggling between them, the tubes and upgrades cost an arm and leg for me, too bad. For all up-grade parts that I used in my WA22, it's cost over the stock WA5LE but still much less than an up-graded/ maxxed WA5LE like yours.


----------



## sillysally

Yes you are correct about the cost of tubes(300B tubes only) and upgrades, but then again the WA22 offers no upgrades for parts. As Jack said to me you pay for what you get.
  My WA6SE is a very nice amp and I think similar to the SE connection of the WA22. As I did more tube rolling with my WA6SE there was two facts and those are the Woo amps are very much influenced by tubes and no matter what tube combo I used there was always something lacking.
  With the WA5LE there is nothing lacking with a good combo of tubes, not to say you still can't best your tube combo because you can. My nos ST 6SN7GT round plates CTL 1942 are a nice improvement over my Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z, and I have a matched pair of nos WE300B 1956 matched date coming.
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> And the WA5LE is $550 over than the WA22 in stock form . But that is why I order the WA22 when I'm struggling between them, the tubes and upgrades cost an arm and leg for me, too bad.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> So how does someone get a Woo Amp in Hong Kong.  Is it all mail order or are there dealers here.  Not used to buying $1000+ equipment on the internet and getting shipped halfway around the world.  Can we buy spare tubes in HK?  Sorry for the newbie questions.


 

 I had both WA6 & WA6SE shipped via USPS and FedEx and both landed safely in Malaysia. FedEx will be a better choice at cost.


----------



## oldwine

Welcome another Hong Kong people getting Woo's amp.
   
  I just got the WA2 for about a week. I didn't choose WA22 as all my cans are in SE connection. Jack is a nice guy and he take cares the item well.
   
  Spare tubes are easy to get in HK, or even thru the net.

  
  Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> So how does someone get a Woo Amp in Hong Kong.  Is it all mail order or are there dealers here.  Not used to buying $1000+ equipment on the internet and getting shipped halfway around the world.  Can we buy spare tubes in HK?  Sorry for the newbie questions.


 




  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I have my second amp the WA22 from Woo Audio arrived safely on April. Yes, you can only order them via internet and No, there is no dealer in Hong Kong. Normally Jack will ship their amp with USPS with tracking and insured, if you want them to be received in a more secure way, you can ask Jack to ship with FEDEX or DHL because it's at your cost. The spare tubes are eaisly find in some tube stores in HK but they are relatively more expensive than on Ebay or some reliable tube stores that you can order via internet.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes you are correct about the cost of tubes(300B tubes only) and upgrades, but then again the WA22 offers no upgrades for parts. As Jack said to me you pay for what you get.
> My WA6SE is a very nice amp and I think similar to the SE connection of the WA22. As I did more tube rolling with my WA6SE there was two facts and those are the Woo amps are very much influenced by tubes and no matter what tube combo I used there was always something lacking.
> With the WA5LE there is nothing lacking with a good combo of tubes, not to say you still can't best your tube combo because you can. My nos ST 6SN7GT round plates CTL 1942 are a nice improvement over my Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z, and I have a matched pair of nos WE300B 1956 matched date coming.


 


 Yeah, Jack offers no up-grade parts for WA22 so I did it myself with some V-Caps CuTF, BlackGate NH and Mills to make it sounds much better than stock, the improvement is un-expected. My EML 5U4G is on it's way and I will order a pair of TS 6SN7 GT black glass as advised from John, assume it will really make it sings. Tthe WA22 is now still under the burn-in period with about 100 hrs and let see how it perform after +500hrs being the parts are settled.
   
  The WA5LE would be my next step but for those up-garde parts and tubes, there is quite a long way for me to save my funding. Not going to say for a pair of WE300B (they are jewellery class of tubes for $), both EML 5U4G, 300B and good 6SN7 would be costly.


----------



## El_Doug

The WA5LE is the 100% exact same headphone circuit as in the WA5 - you just lose the ability to drive speakers
  
  Quote: 





regal said:


> Did anyone read the endorsement from Steve Hoffman on the Woo 300B  amp?    I'll admit I was turned off to Woo with their Woo6 & 6SE (not impressed by the SQ or reliability),   but an endorsement from the worlds best mastering engineer is pretty earth shattering.   Mr. Hoffman bought and loved the 300B speaker + Headphone version,  if I don't listen to speakers is the headphone only version as good?   Its $1000 less expensive.


----------



## sillysally

Yes you don't have to go with a set of nos WE300b or even a set of  nos TS round plates, I am just seeing how far I can take mt WA5LE max+. I can tell you one thing I would have never consider going this extreme with my WA6SE, but the WA5LE is something special.
  I am sure you will find your EML to be a very nice addition to your wonderful amp.Not to mention what you have already done with the V-Caps, Black Gates etc. Really nice job!!
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yeah, Jack offers no up-grade parts for WA22 so I did it myself with some V-Caps CuTF, BlackGate NH and Mills to make it sounds much better than stock, the improvement is un-expected. My EML 5U4G is on it's way and I will order a pair of TS 6SN7 GT black glass as advised from John, assume it will really make it sings. Tthe WA22 is now still under the burn-in period with about 100 hrs and let see how it perform after +500hrs being the parts are settled.
> 
> The WA5LE would be my next step but for those up-garde parts and tubes, there is quite a long way for me to save my funding. Not going to say for a pair of WE300B (they are jewellery class of tubes for $), both EML 5U4G, 300B and good 6SN7 would be costly.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks buddy, it's time for me starting to save the funding now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I have never doubt the sound quality from Jack's product since my first WA6SE, needless to say the flagship WA5 or the WA5LE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks buddy, it's time for me starting to save the funding now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 When you are ready for the WA5, sell me your WA22...save me the time to get it upgrade with Blackgate...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> When you are ready for the WA5, sell me your WA22...save me the time to get it upgrade with Blackgate...


 


 WOW! What a surprise, you just got your Sonett. Anyway, you'll be the guy for my WA22 if I'm ready for the WA5LE, still a long way.


----------



## jc9394

I can wait, still need to recoup the money spent on Sonett.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> WOW! What a surprise, you just got your Sonett. Anyway, you'll be the guy for my WA22 if I'm ready for the WA5LE, still a long way.


 
  What's going on here? It sounds like people who own Woo amps also like the Sonett as well. I hear Donald North's design is simple but very effective--sweet sounding. I also like the blue color. Anyway, there's nothing like a collection of the best for your audio pleasure I'd say.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What's going on here? It sounds like people who own Woo amps also like the Sonett as well. I hear Donald North's design is simple but very effective--sweet sounding. I also like the blue color. Anyway, there's nothing like a collection of the best for your audio pleasure I'd say.


 


 Should be like this - "It sounds like people who own Sonett also like the Woo amps as well."


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just got mine today. I'm now on the 5th hour of burn in. Let's see what happens tomorrow morning when I fire this tube up again. I haven't turned it off since I turned in on 5 hours ago. Of course contact Jack, he'll take care of everything. That EML is too young to peter out. I must say, it is one of the best rectifier tubes that I've listened to in my WA22.


 
  So how is that burn in going???
  Mine has 0ver 24 hours on it, but I also changed the output tubes today,,,,, I was reading Skylabs 6AS7G review and I realised  the Chatham 2399 is an equivalent,, da!!!  I have 4 Chatham 2399 tubes in my Extreme just sitting in my closet. I just dropped them in the WA22 this evening,,,They sound great,, EML or Chathan 2399???? or both?? The best sounding combo yet for the HD 800.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What's going on here? It sounds like people who own Woo amps also like the Sonett as well. I hear Donald North's design is simple but very effective--sweet sounding. I also like the blue color. Anyway, there's nothing like a collection of the best for your audio pleasure I'd say.


 

 Clayton, I'm sure the Sonett's a nice amp, I just cant past it's looks. I personally hate the way it looks.
   
  PS. Your new EML rectifier looks amazing!


----------



## hodgjy

Has anyone else noticed that Woo Audio slightly changed their product lineup?  The 3+ is no longer available, per se.  The 3 is the 3+ now and adding a preamp out is now a $100 option.  I ordered the old 3 about 3 weeks ago, so it looks like I chose to order at the right time because theoretically I should still get the preamp out (which I will use) for the lower price.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What's going on here? It sounds like people who own Woo amps also like the Sonett as well. I hear Donald North's design is simple but very effective--sweet sounding. I also like the blue color. Anyway, there's nothing like a collection of the best for your audio pleasure I'd say.


 


 The DNA is very nice amp, it is different signature from Woo.  I love them both. 

  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Should be like this - "It sounds like people who own Sonett also like the Woo amps as well."


 


 Either way works for me.  Until I get your WA22, I like the Sonett a little better than my WA6 with my HD800 but I still prefer the WA6 with HF2 and W5000
 .
  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Clayton, I'm sure the Sonett's a nice amp, I just cant past it's looks. I personally hate the way it looks.


 

  
  I don't look at my amps when I listen to music, I usually close my eyes.  It is different from the Woo look but not as bad the the picture, it looks much better in person.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Has anyone else noticed that Woo Audio slightly changed their product lineup?  The 3+ is no longer available, per se.  The 3 is the 3+ now and adding a preamp out is now a $100 option.  I ordered the old 3 about 3 weeks ago, so it looks like I chose to order at the right time because theoretically I should still get the preamp out (which I will use) for the lower price.


 
  I also notice that the Woo 2 is now past the $1K mark. Last month it was $990 wasn't it? Woo is progressing. As for the DNA Sonett, I think the blue finish looks damn sleek. I haven't heard one but I see that Donald offers several versions. Any ready opinions out there on the Sonett. Oops--this is a Woo thread--sorry. Never mind.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Has anyone else noticed that Woo Audio slightly changed their product lineup?  The 3+ is no longer available, per se.  The 3 is the 3+ now and adding a preamp out is now a $100 option.  I ordered the old 3 about 3 weeks ago, so it looks like I chose to order at the right time because theoretically I should still get the preamp out (which I will use) for the lower price.


 

 How did the 3 differ from the 3+?
   
  USG


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I also notice that the Woo 2 is now past the $1K mark. Last month it was $990 wasn't it? Woo is progressing. As for the DNA Sonett, I think the blue finish looks damn sleek. I haven't heard one but I see that Donald offers several versions. Any ready opinions out there on the Sonett. Oops--this is a Woo thread--sorry. Never mind.


 


 Yeap, never mind, we are open to discuss. I think some of us would like to know how the Sonett sonically compare to Woo's products too but not saying which one is better.


----------



## Superfrag

I feel sad, soon I need to sell the WA6 with Sophia due to its size and weight... I'm a college student and I travel a lot too.. going for the Protector.
   
  I'm gonna miss it a lot, I absolutely love its sound. Maybe after college, I'll buy a WA6 SE if its still selling!
   
  Its a great match with the K701 as well as the DT880 600 Ohm, beautiful sound.


----------



## oldwine

wow... it is so lucky for me to get the WA2 before it rises the price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It seems the WA6 SE also increased to 1050 too.
   

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I also notice that the Woo 2 is now past the $1K mark. Last month it was $990 wasn't it? Woo is progressing. As for the DNA Sonett, I think the blue finish looks damn sleek. I haven't heard one but I see that Donald offers several versions. Any ready opinions out there on the Sonett. Oops--this is a Woo thread--sorry. Never mind.


----------



## hodgjy

Previously, the old 3 has the preamp out, but the 3+ didn't and supposedly had slightly better sound because of it.  The circuitry bypassed the preamp completely and was somehow a cleaner feed.  I'm not an electronic guy in anyway, so maybe someone else could explain it better, but the rationale for keeping the 3 and the 3+ as separate platforms made sense.
  
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> How did the 3 differ from the 3+?
> 
> USG


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> How did the 3 differ from the 3+?
> 
> USG


 

 Besides not having preamp outs, the 3+ and the new 3 use a choke in the power supply which improves power at low impedances.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> wow... it is so lucky for me to get the WA2 before it rises the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 If my memory is right, I paid $1,050 last year on Mar for theWA6SE.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yeap, never mind, we are open to discuss. I think some of us would like to know how the Sonett sonically compare to Woo's products too but not saying which one is better.


 
   
  i'm guessing dna sonnett must sound pretty sweet, from having experimented with the 6h30/6n30p/6n30p-dr
  tubes on my wa6/wa6se. it's a better tube than the 6de7 family. better balance from
  top to bottom, less distortion/compression and the 6h30 family exhibits a very sweet, delicate
  mid and high freq.. less analytical than the 6de7 but not thicker sounding either. it took awhile to
  find the optimal operating points of the 6h30 on the wa6/se but once i found it, i understood
  why these tubes are coveted. it's just as good as the 6sn7 family but i find it quieter and
  sweeter in the mids, somewhat like a roundplate TS, with great resolution/detail to boot. the
  power section isn't bad either. optimally, you'd want to use something with more gain/power
  but for most headphones it serves its purpose.


----------



## mikemalter

Will post a few more in a bit.  How does this compare to the build quality of those of you who have WA22's.


----------



## atbglenn

Mike, yours looks as good as any I've seen. Woo added circuit boards to the pot. That's the only difference other than Danny's, who has different chokes. Very nice!
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Will post a few more in a bit.  How does this compare to the build quality of those of you who have WA22's.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks for sharing, takezo.

  
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> i'm guessing dna sonnett must sound pretty sweet, from having experimented with the 6h30/6n30p/6n30p-dr
> tubes on my wa6/wa6se. it's a better tube than the 6de7 family. better balance from
> top to bottom, less distortion/compression and the 6h30 family exhibits a very sweet, delicate
> mid and high freq.. less analytical than the 6de7 but not thicker sounding either. it took awhile to
> ...


 

 My WA22 looks almost exactly the same except the choke, they look cheaper than yours in the pic. But very nice build quality, neat and tidy.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Will post a few more in a bit.  How does this compare to the build quality of those of you who have WA22's.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Mike, yours looks as good as any I've seen. Woo added circuit boards to the pot. That's the only difference other than Danny's, who has different chokes. Very nice!


 

 What is a choke?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## dannie01

The 2 transformer looking behind the pcb are chokes.


----------



## mikemalter




----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What is a choke?
> 
> Thanks.


 
   

   Mike, It's the two transformer like devices that say " WooAudio" on them. They look like transformers, but they're not. It's a single coil of wire wound on a bobbin. They're basically used to beef up the power supply.


----------



## mikemalter




----------



## dannie01

Nice pics mikemalter. How's the CV-181 sounds with your WA22?


----------



## atbglenn

Huge pictures Mike! Looks great though!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Huge pictures Mike! Looks great though!


 

 Sorry, just learning how to export from Lightroom.  Will scale them better next time.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sorry, just learning how to export from Lightroom.  Will scale them better next time.


 
   
   
  No problem


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Nice pics mikemalter. How's the CV-181 sounds with your WA22?


 
   
  You know, I really don't know.  I don't have anything to compare them to other than the stock tubes, and I have not put them in yet.  I trusted Jack when I bought the setup and got the tubes he recommended on his website.
   
  I have about 80 hours on the unit now, and I am really enjoying the music.  The only thing I have to compare it to was my old Musical Fidelity XCan V3, and it is certainly a jump in light years above that.  After my stuff breaks in, I'll start rolling tubes, so I can't say how a specific tube sounds to me yet.
   
  In general the whole experience has been very positive.  The bass has real depth and it is full, rich, solid and fast.  It is huge compared with what I was used to before.  The other thing that stands out is the detail I can hear, it is really remarkable and crystal clear without being harsh.  I have a CD I use to test harshness as it is right at the edge of causing my ears to bleed.  On some systems, it just cuts through, and yet on others it plays really nicely.  It sounds wonderful.
   
  I am also experiencing a much larger and coherent soundstage vs. sound through the headphone.  It is like the cans have disappeared and there is just music.
   
  One thing about the HD800 that fits nicely into this system, is that even with the XCan V3, there would be times when music started to play, and it startled me, kind of like working at something and someone walks into the room quietly and then starts talking to you.  It's like that where the sound has a certain aliveness to it.  That coupled with what Jack has done with the WA22 is nothing short of spectacular - and I still have a while to go in break-in.
   
  My wife listened to it the other day and she said it was like listening to liquid light.
   
  What are your favorite tubes?


----------



## atbglenn

Mike, I also had a Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 for a while. Upgraded to the Woo WA6 two years ago and the difference was huge. I can only imagine how good your WA22 sounds in comparison. Must be heaven!


----------



## mikemalter

Just making sure I can upload photos that are not too big and size nicely.  Is this a good size?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just making sure I can upload photos that are not too big and size nicely.  Is this a good size?


 

 Much better Mike


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Mike, I also had a Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 for a while. Upgraded to the Woo WA6 two years ago and the difference was huge. I can only imagine how good your WA22 sounds in comparison. Must be heaven!


 


 What I am trying to figure out is how balanced fits into all of this.  Do you know what it brings to the party?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What I am trying to figure out is how balanced fits into all of this.  Do you know what it brings to the party?


 

 Besides beer and chips? 
   
   
   I'm not very good at describing how things sound.  I can listen of long periods without getting fatigued. It just sounds right where as the X-Can sounded a bit hard for my taste.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks for sharing Mike.
   
  I have very similar feeling like yours even I don't have any good tubes to roll ATM. I have only a pair of GEC 6080, TS 5998 and a pair of TS and RCA 6F8G. The EML 5U4G assume will be arrived in the next week and I will order a pair of TS 6SN7GT to have a try. My WA22 burn-in with about 100hrs by now and it sounds terrific to my ears, you said what's already in my mouth. The TS is some kind of very powerful tubes, when the 5998s sitting in the WA22, I can only turn 4 to 5 click to my listening level almost double the power output than the GEC 6080.
   
  The WA22 is much powerful than the WA6SE, very deep bass in the HD800 with TS but with a bit fatigue in the first 50 hrs in the mids and highs, they tamed a lot now, getting more smooth and rich. The soundstage is like what you said, large and the HD800 is dispeared, I'm only enjoying the music from the Linn Akurate DS no matter what kind of music I dropped into the playlist. The WA22 is a more forgiving amp than the WA6SE, it will make the bad recording sound nicer maybe it colored but I like that kind of coloration.
   
  I will post some more impression when the EML 5U4G and TS 6SN7GT arrived and have them enough burn-in.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Besides beer and chips?


 


> I'm not very good at describing how things sound.  I can listen of long periods without getting fatigued. It just sounds right where as the X-Can sounded a bit hard for my taste.


 
  YES. Beer and chips and a good barbecue: It's a 3-day weekend here in the U.S.
   
  Hey atbglenn: I still have my X-CAN V8p. It sounds great. It's a hybrid amp and a nice change from just tubes or just ss AND it has 2 headphone jacks to boot! I took more shots of the Woo family of amps, et al.; the light is better this morning. By the way, it has been suggested that I get shorter and better quality RCA interconnects between the CineMag step-up transformer and the Fi Yph phono stage. So once again the search for perfection begins!
   
  Hey mikemalter: Those are great pictures that you took. I like that you got the back of your system to show those great interconnects. I've got to start to concentrate on those as well. I understand that good quality interconnects are a very important piece of the sonic puzzle--along with everything else: tubes, tubes, and more tubes!!!


----------



## atbglenn

Look up! Clayton's Woo City!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, dude--it's actually a town at the moment and not a city. Wait until this winter when I'll heat my apartment with these amps.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Clayton
   
  what is that in-between your WA2 and WA22?


----------



## Clayton SF

It's an air compressor--it improves the sound of the Woo 22! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 j/k
   
  The little thing is a CineMag step-up transformer: http://www.10audio.com/bob%27s_devices_step_up.htm
   
  And the Y shaped thingy is a phono stage by Don Garber: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/fi3/yph.html
   
  The Yph has a breaking point of 1.0mV, beneath which requires a step-up transformer. And since my cartridge is beneath 1.0mV (it is .5mV) hence the CineMag.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:  





>





> What are your favorite tubes?


 

 Right now Emission labs  5U4G///Chatham Electronics 2399//Sylvania 2C51/5670 with an adapter to use in place of the 6SN7's.
   
  Wow I need to dust....


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, dude--it's actually a town at the moment and not a city. Wait until this winter when I'll heat my apartment with these amps.


 
   
  Clayton,
   
  Wow, what a really nice setup.  You have a wonderfull collection of stuff!  What is the big black box underneith your turntable?
   
  If you ever get over on the otherside of the bay (San Rafael area), let me know, you could come by for a listen.  I'd be interested in your take on how our systems compare.
   
  Interconnects can really make a difference, and that is another kettle of fish - there is so much out there, and some of those cables can be quite expensive.  Also, I'm a big believer in clean power.  I have a PS Audio Ultimate outlet that my gear plugs into, and soon I'll be moving my PS Audio P600 powerplant upstairs where my headphone rig is.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Right now Emission labs  5U4G///Chatham Electronics 2399//Sylvania 2C51/5670 with an adapter to use in place of the 6SN7's.
> 
> Wow I need to dust....


 

 I have so much to learn about tubes.  About another 50 hours or so on the break in and then I'll start looking at tubes.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have so much to learn about tubes.  About another 50 hours or so on the break in and then I'll start looking at tubes.


 
  This goes in tonight...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Clayton,
> 
> Wow, what a really nice setup.  You have a wonderfull collection of stuff!  What is the big black box underneith your turntable?
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks! Hey, it appears that we're on the same wavelength (except for interconnects--you definitely have the lead on those). I have a PS Audio Power Plant Premier that my gear plugs into. That black box is a tube tester. The top tube tester is a NRI Professional Tube Tester Model 70 and the one on the floor is a Precision "Tube Master" Series 10-12 (Paco).
   
  Thanks for the invite. I extend one to you as well. If you're in San Francisco, drop on by. I live in a very small apartment so quarters are cramped but the music's good!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> My wife listened to it the other day and she said it was like listening to liquid light.


 

 I like this.  It's a very neat way of putting it.


----------



## dannie01

Hey Clayton, you have definately a very nice set-up.


----------



## hodgjy

[[[Happy Dance]]]
   
  My amp ships tomorrow.
   
  [[[Happy Dance]]]


----------



## K_19

Apparently my WA6SE has arrived at my house now.  Got tagged with a lot of Duty tax apparently, didn't have much luck in the customs I guess. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Oh well.  You win some, you lose some.
   
  Work needs to end.  Soon. Like now.  Ugh.  Dammit.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can't wait to try it!


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Apparently my WA6SE has arrived at my house now.  Got tagged with a lot of Duty tax apparently, didn't have much luck in the customs I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats.....sorry you got nailed by customs !!! I was luckier...
   
  But don't worry....as soon as you hear the music, your music world will never be the same !!!!
   
  The WA6SE and the HD800 are the two best audio move I have ever done !!!
   
  Enjoy !!!
   
  What will be the first CD you'll listen to ??? Mine was Quiet Letters from Bliss....the best audio recording I have...
   
  Denys


----------



## K_19

Thanks.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Surprisingly I'm not really even all that angry about being tagged with duty tax even though usually I'd be furious at such luck (and apparently the tax amount was around $100, not cheap!)... all because of the excitement of anticipation of listening with the SE (with HD800, mainly).
   
  I'm thinking that I HAVE to listen to a good orchestral recording to start off, since those are IMO what the HD800 are best with.  I'm an avid fan of the Back to the Future Film series and have a nice FLAC score of all the original orchestral pieces from the movie.  It's an excellent recording and I'm really looking forward to listening to it with 6SE... it was already magical enough with a normal WA6 so I cannot imagine how much better the 6SE will do them.  After that, I'll probably listen to some Pink Floyd and other prog rock stuff I have.  Will definitely try some hard hitting rock stuff later with my RS1 as well.  Either way I've got a long night of listening ahead of me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> ***snip***  I'm thinking that I HAVE to listen to a good orchestral recording to start off, since those are IMO what the HD800 are best with.
> ***snip***


 
   
  K_19: Congratulations. May I suggest this CD? Give it a listen. It's one of my favorites of the "good orchestral recordings" category: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD030911109622
   

   
  Enjoy your new "ears!"


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey Clayton, you have definately a very nice set-up.


 

 Thanks, dannie01. How is your Beta22 doing and don't you miss your WA6 SE? I thought I saw a picture of your setup once and it had a 6SE.


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, I noticed you have both WA6 and WA22. Can you please gives a brief impression or comparison of both amps. I currently have the fully maxxed WA6 and a balanced Sonett, both feed by PWD, and looking at the WA22. I know it is a upgrade over my WA6 but want to know how much of upgrade we are talking about.

 TIA


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> K_19: Congratulations. May I suggest this CD? Give it a listen. It's one of my favorites of the "good orchestral recordings" category: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD030911109622
> 
> enjoy your new "ears!"


 

 Thanks Clay.  Gonna have to purchase that one, sounds epic!


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Clayton, I noticed you have both WA6 and WA22. Can you please gives a brief impression or comparison of both amps. I currently have the fully maxxed WA6 and a balanced Sonett, both feed by PWD, and looking at the WA22. I know it is a upgrade over my WA6 but want to know how much of upgrade we are talking about.
> 
> TIA


 

 Ditto..........


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Clayton, I noticed you have both WA6 and WA22. Can you please gives a brief impression or comparison of both amps. I currently have the fully maxxed WA6 and a balanced Sonett, both feed by PWD, and looking at the WA22. I know it is a upgrade over my WA6 but want to know how much of upgrade we are talking about.
> 
> TIA


 
   
  Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Ditto..........


 
  Eeek! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I knew that would happen. Well, guys, I shall do that as soon as I fire the WA6 again. The last time I plugged headphones into the WA6 was about 2 months ago. There is a difference imo but I will have to give them both a listen and jot down some notes. I'm really not good at describing sonic differences like some people can. I chose the pdps upgrade when it was an option last year; now it comes with the stock model.
   
  So I'll get back with some brief impressions of the WA6 and the WA22 as soon as I can. There is one big difference between the two though: it's a $1280 difference.


----------



## K_19

... I'm absolutely devastated right now.  FML.  The WA6SE amp, which I was anticipating so much for the last two weeks or so, arrived at my house battered and broken.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    My most expensive Head-fi transaction ever went terribly wrong...
   
  The unit arrived with the box totally mangled, and apparently opened for earlier inspection probably at the customs.  The tubes insides were COMPLETELY shattered, with some of the glass shards going into the insides.  The unit itself was riddled with scratches and dents, and the volume knob came loose free from the unit itself (as well as one of the feets attached to the bottom).  I immediately opened the units to clean it free of glass shards, hoping that the Woo being a robust unit that it is, would at least work (I still had the tubes I'm using for my WA6).  Unfortunately this wasn't the case; It powered on and sparked my Sophia rectifier, gave a nasty tube hum, and had ZERO volume in the right channel, for whatever reason.  I opened the unit and saw the insides which looked completely fine (didn't see any loose wires or anything), but obviously I'm not electronic technician so I have no idea what is wrong here...  Was completely heartbroken at this point.  To add insult to the injury, the total duty fees I paid for it was $140.
   
  I've contacted the seller to see what he can do about the this problem, so I won't go into it further or blame anyone just yet, but just needed to vent here.    Ugh.  This is like a horrible nightmare coming true.


----------



## El_Doug

i am SO sorry this happened to you, K_19  
   
   
  *hug*


----------



## flaming_june

Absolutely terrible.  Can you civil sue the customs inspectors?


----------



## Red_Devil_24

That's terrible, I hope my WA6 will arrive safe at the end of the week. You got me worried now.
  I hope you can resolve this problem.
   
  Edit: Take picture of everything, i.e. the broken tube, scratch, dent, etc... Could be useful for a claim with the shipping company.


----------



## Clayton SF

That is an absolutely devastating outcome for your WA6SE. I can't imagine how customs could have a total disregard for items of value like your Woo (or anything else personal for that matter). I am so sorry to hear about your amp's demise. I just don't understand Canadian customs procedures.
   
  EDIT: Was it packed in Jack's original packing materials? Jack packs his amps super carefully and securely. I've received 3 amps from him all in perfect condition upon arrival. Yes, take pictures and note the packing materials.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That is an absolutely devastating outcome for your WA6SE. I can't imagine how customs could have a total disregard for items of value like your Woo (or anything else personal for that matter). I am so sorry to hear about your amp's demise. I just don't understand Canadian customs procedures.
> 
> EDIT: Was it packed in Jack's original packing materials? Jack packs his amps super carefully and securely. I've received 3 amps from him all in perfect condition upon arrival. Yes, take pictures and note the packing materials.


 

 I don't want to expand on the issue TOO much just yet on behalf of the seller (I'm seeing what he can do about this first), but I do feel that everyone should know about this, so...
   
  - No, it was NOT packed in Jack's original packing materials.  I do understand that the seller may have disposed of it though, not necessarily his fault.  
  - I did feel that it was somewhat inadequately packaged.  The seller only used bubble wraps and newspapers around the amp, and just the paper boxes for the tubes.  No stryrofoam, which would have REALLY been nice as added protection.
  - Everyone, please remember when shipping delicate products with sensitive electronic components and glass, that the package be marked as "FRAGILE".  From what I've seen on the box the seller failed to do this.
   
  In all, I do believe that either USPS or Canada Post was responsible for pretty much all of this.  They probably threw and tossed the box all over the place (the amp literally looks like it's been through an explosion of some sort...).  Inexcusable really.  But I did feel that the amp could have been packaged better on the seller's end.  Hopefully he'll learn from this experience as well as the every future sellers that may be reading this...
   
  I'm pretty much at a loss of what to do now.  I've taken pictures and will upload it (I don't really want to disgrace this appreciation thread with pics of the Woo that looks like it's been through a nuclear blast, so I'll refrain from posting it here) then send it to the seller and wait and see what he can do.  Apparently there's nothing I can do on my end as a buyer for the insurance claim process (it's all up to the seller to do this), but the seller DID insure about $650 on it which will hopefully recoup SOME amount of our transaction.   Basically, everyone's a loser here and I feel bad for the seller also.  I suppose this is a lesson learned in online transactions and shipping on both of our ends, and harsh and costly one at that.  
   
  Still shocked.  I'll get over it soon hopefully.  I may buy it new from Jack (if I do, I'll surely buy directly from him) or maybe I'll try another amp, I dunno, it's far from my concern now... nonetheless, thanks for the condolences everyone.  I really appreciate it.


----------



## mikemalter

Really sorry to hear this happened to you.
   
  Like a number of people said, take pictures and have the seller contact the shipping company.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> ... I'm absolutely devastated right now.  FML.  The WA6SE amp, which I was anticipating so much for the last two weeks or so, arrived at my house battered and broken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's really horrible K_19.  I'm sure the seller packed it well, so it must have been customs that failed to repack it properly and is responsible for the destruction.
   
  Customs should refund your money and pay for a new one.
   
  USG


----------



## K_19

I've taken the pics and am in the process of sending it to the seller.  I really do wish that I had a better camera, and have better skills in taking pics, but doing what I can.
   
  It's all up to him afterwards.  As I've said apparently there is nothing I can do as a buyer in insurance claims, it's upto the seller to make the claim and go about it.  Of course, I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to help him in the process.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Really sorry to hear this happened to you.
> 
> Like a number of people said, take pictures and have the seller contact the shipping company.


 

 X 2 So,,Sorry.


----------



## atbglenn

K 19, Very sorry to hear about your damaged Woo. Good Luck in getting it resolved.


----------



## K_19

Another sad thing is that I was actually due to sell my current WA6 to another Head-fi'er once the WA6SE came in.  And now I can't do that because I still need something to satisfactorily power my HD800 (although I do also have the Gilmore Lite, WA6 betters it for HD800).  He was really excited and looking forward to the purchase too... hate having to disappoint someone this way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyways, thanks for the support everyone and I'm really sorry for temporarily derailing and putting a damper on this appreciation thread.  I'll post more about this in the member's lounge forum or something as it progresses, and let you guys know here once a resolution is reached (hopefully a good one).
   
  On subject of appreciation (let's get back to that now...), although I only had the left channel functional on my WA6SE, it was still enough for me to tell that it's much more powerful and dynamic than my stock WA6... that much was obvious.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hang in there. I'm pulling for a good outcome. You've got photos, documentation--let's hope a solution is around the corner. Keep us posted.


----------



## dmac03

Boy K19..that is absolutely terrible news. Hopefully the sting has started to wear off by now.
   
  I first got wind of the Woo Audio amps a few years back through Cnet and have wanted one ever since - but didn't really have a pair of phones to justify having one. I have finally come across the funds that will allow me to invest in a rig that will (cross my fingers) allow me to avoid upgraditis for awhile.
   
  I've got my ideal headphones (PS1000's - or RS1i if I get scared of the  $$$) and source (Sony 5400ES) narrowed down, but the amp is the true gray area in the rig. I've really been eyeing the wa6se, but haven't heard much about the pairing with the ps1000's. Does anyone suggest an appropriate Woo amp? If so, please identify upgrades and tubes that should considered. As for my cost range, I have a difficult time considering paying more for an amp than for the pair of cans being driven. This is especially the case when the pair of cans can be driven "relatively" well without an amp. However, I will ultimately consider anything that will help me avoid the upgrade bug for as long as possible. Thanks for any help you can provide!


----------



## flaming_june

Oh thank god
   

   
  After a month and a half of waiting it finally shipped today


----------



## hodgjy

I got the same message today!!! My 3 should be here on Thurs or Fri.  Can't wait!!!!
   
  I emailed Jack last week just to see about the order, not being pushy or anything--just being curious about the progress.  But didn't hear from him until today.  I'm sure he gets about 100 of those kinds of emails a day saying "Where's my order?"  He emailed me this morning saying the amp will ship tomorrow.  Then, I got the more formal shipping email later in the day.  I guess Jack didn't want to reply until he had the full information.  Can't fault that at all.  
   
  I ordered on 5/10.  I was told 3-4 weeks, and it came right in that estimate.  No complains whatsoever.
  
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Oh thank god
> 
> 
> 
> After a month and a half of waiting it finally shipped today


----------



## zeroeight

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I had both WA6 & WA6SE shipped via USPS and FedEx and both landed safely in Malaysia. FedEx will be a better choice at cost.


 

  
  So, of the two, I would assume the two chassis unit is the better sounding.  But is the difference close or is it readily apparent?  I was also considering the unit with built in pre-amp (WA2).  In future, I was considering trading in my integrated amp for a power amp and then use the pre-amp in the WA2 as a volume control.  I only listen to CDs as source.
   
  Since the WA6SE is the same price as the WA2, are the two close in performance terms?  Just wondering which is the right amp for me, and any help from you vets would held me decide.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I don't want to expand on the issue TOO much just yet on behalf of the seller (I'm seeing what he can do about this first), but I do feel that everyone should know about this, so...
> 
> - No, it was NOT packed in Jack's original packing materials.  I do understand that the seller may have disposed of it though, not necessarily his fault.
> - I did feel that it was somewhat inadequately packaged.  The seller only used bubble wraps and newspapers around the amp, and just the paper boxes for the tubes.  No Styrofoam, which would have REALLY been nice as added protection.
> - Everyone, please remember when shipping delicate products with sensitive electronic components and glass, that the package be marked as "FRAGILE".  From what I've seen on the box the seller failed to do this.


 

 If I were you I would be all over the seller. The packaging that they used is totally unacceptable.
  Yes the WA6SE is built like a tank, and if there are no separated connections then I would start to think that the right channel was already blown, I have read where folks have used bad tubes and blow out a channel.
  I have followed to many posts where folks did something wrong with there amp and then sold it.
   
  The best way to ship something fragile via USPS is priority mail registered.


----------



## Denys

I am stunned !!!
   
  I just received mine less than three weeks ago (WA6SE) directly from Woo Audio and it was in a perfect condition, including the extra tubes !!!!
   
  And, lucky me, it has not been opened by the customs although it stayed there for two weeks !!! 
   
  I really feel sorry for you and hope a satisfactory arrangement could be made for you....
   
  Hate reading stories like this...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Denys


----------



## dannie01

So sorry to know about what was happening on your WA6SE. For what you've described the package from the seller, only bubble wrap and newspaper then carton box is totally un-acceptable since the amp is really heavy for the package. Hope it will be re-solved soon.

  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Another sad thing is that I was actually due to sell my current WA6 to another Head-fi'er once the WA6SE came in.  And now I can't do that because I still need something to satisfactorily power my HD800 (although I do also have the Gilmore Lite, WA6 betters it for HD800).  He was really excited and looking forward to the purchase too... hate having to disappoint someone this way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## dannie01

The WA6SE is gone and now in Romania, on another head-fier's house. As I can recember, I did not turn on the Beta22 since the first compare the 2 when the WA22 received. Don't get me wrong, the Beta22 still sounds very good within my set-up but just to concentrate to enjoy the music flows from the WA22 and am likeing very much. The HD800 really sounds good with the combo.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks, dannie01. How is your Beta22 doing and don't you miss your WA6 SE? I thought I saw a picture of your setup once and it had a 6SE.


----------



## h.rav

@ K_19
  I would never ship a Woo Audio amp without its' original packaging. It's just not safe to just bubble wrap it. I would be all over the seller if I were you.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





h.rav said:


> @ K_19
> I would never ship a Woo Audio amp without its' original packaging. It's just not safe to just bubble wrap it. I would be all over the seller if I were you.


 

  
  Absolutely.  Newspaper will get crushed and loose its resiliency and then the amp will start rolling around everywhere.  And, bubble wrap is not really all that good for heavy amps either because they will pop.  The best packing material to use are either plastic peanuts or pieces of foam.
   
  What I have done in the past when I have sold an amp is I contact the vendor and have them ship to me an empty box with all packing materials and then I pack up the amp in that and ship it.
   
  You should put this back on the seller as nicely as possible.  They really do bare a large part of the responsibility here.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I've taken the pics and am in the process of sending it to the seller.  I really do wish that I had a better camera, and have better skills in taking pics, but doing what I can.
> 
> It's all up to him afterwards.  As I've said apparently there is nothing I can do as a buyer in insurance claims, it's upto the seller to make the claim and go about it.  Of course, I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to help him in the process.


 


 so sorry to hear that
  if the seller packed it with bubble wrap and newspaper,he should refund all the money to you.bubble wrap will pop with this heavy package and it is not acceptibale to wrap expensive tubes this way.
  if the seller failed to help you(which i hope not),contact jack and see what he can do.
  sorry for this misfortunate event.


----------



## jjinh

K_19, I've bought an amp which blew up after I plugged it. I was very disappointed but the seller and I were able to come to an agreement on sharing costs to repair the amp (although it took more than 3 months for me to get the amp back to functional).
   
  The damage on your WA6SE sounds worse. Sorry about your loss...


----------



## sillysally

The good news is if the seller is who I think he is, things should work out. It also seems the seller got that wa6se from a head-fi member also.


----------



## K_19

Hey everyone, I've created a thread in the Members' Lounge forum where we can discuss this further if you'd like, for the sake of not derailing this thread any further.  I've posted the pictures also.  You can find the new thread in this link:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/495029/my-wa6se-arrived-home-battered-and-broken-bought-from-another-head-fi-er#post_6680866
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> The good news is if the seller is who I think he is, things should work out. It also seems the seller got that wa6se from a head-fi member also.


 


 I got your PM.  Yes, you are indeed right about the seller, it's that person.  I also don't think I should worry and he seems like a great head-fi'er.  Haven't heard anything back from him yet though.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But I realize it hasn't even been a day yet.


----------



## K_19

A question for you Woo experts in this thread (specifically, the ones that own or have owned the WA6SE),
   
  Are there units that have totally NO labelling on the back of the amp component side of the unit?  Unlike my current WA6, I see that this unit had absolutely ZERO labelling in the back (just like a blank DIY amp case).  I don't think it's scratched out or anything either.  So nothing to indicate the two different inputs and stuff like that, or indication of what the umbilical cord jack is, or anything like that.  If this is indeed a legit unit from Woo, is this a unit produced quite a while ago?  Because I see from the Woo site that the labelling all SHOULD be there for WA6SE... if this is indeed an older unit, then I have a feeling that this wasn't a unit that was compatible with Sophia either, since it sparked it as it was starting up... misleading because the poster was also actually originally selling a Sophia Princess with it as a package (which I thankfully didn't buy, largely because I already had one).


----------



## hodgjy

I'm by no means a Woo expert, but I have researched enough threads here and looked at enough pictures in the threads to have a decent idea.
   
  Woo Audio evolves their product line quite frequently.  They add and remove cosmetic features from their cases whenever they feel moved to do so.  So, if the front of the amp has engraved "Woo Audio", and even if the back is blank, I'd feel pretty good about it being a legit Woo.  I don't think counterfeiters would take the time to machine out Woo on the front.  Just my opinion, and definitely not legal advice.  Just my observations.


----------



## K_19

Yeah, I also highly doubt that the seller would also go through the trouble of doing that himself or anything.  All the engraving in the front indeed has the Woo Audio labels on it.  Just thought that it was odd that some units have absolutely no labelling in the back at all.  I guess the main question was if this was something that is from old production batch.  I should probably contact Jack, give him the serial and have him make sure.


----------



## hodgjy

Looking at pictures of Woo amps, I've noticed some have engraved serial numbers, while others are written with marker.  As with anything hand made, you're going to see a lot of individual variations.  I think you answered the question the best yourself--email the serial number to Jack Wu and see if it's legit.  He'll probably tell you it is, and that it was a very early production of that model.


----------



## atbglenn

Are you sure your amp wasn't painted?


----------



## K_19

I'll do a more through and proper inspection once I get home from work later tonight.  I don't think it was painted though.
   
  As I've said I also opened the unit just to see if there was any loose joints or obviously broken components, and inside looked perfectly fine (keeping in mind I have no electronics knowledge whatsoever of course), so I do wonder where the damage occured with the amp during the transport.  Maybe it's a simple fix, or perhaps it's not.  It's the volume pot maybe? (the knob DID come loose during transport, and pot looks slightly bent) I may take a shot of the internals also and perhaps one of you technically knowledgeable posters can pick out anything wrong with it.
   
   
  EDIT: From contacting the original owner of the unit (who sold it to the seller in question back in beginning of the year), the unit was purchased after Canjam '08, so I guess in mid/late 2008.  Does anyone know when exactly Jack made the changes to the unit that made it compatible with the Sophia?


----------



## Xcalibur255

What a terrible ordeal K19.  I really hope you get a good outcome from all of this.
   
  Waiting to hear from the seller must be torture.


----------



## atbglenn

I feel terrible for the guy. I hope he gets his money back


----------



## K_19

UPDATE:
   
  The seller has finally contacted me and he is genuinely sorry and is willing to work with me in rectifying this situation.  I would really like to thank him for that, and hopefully the insurance claim will go okay and we'll recover some funds from this. 
   
  I'll update the situation as it goes.  Just wanted to thank you guys once again for all your support.


----------



## hodgjy

That's great to hear.  Although, I am confused by your wording.  Does "willing to work with you" mean you will either get an amp up to specs or a full refund?  I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, but I've had a bad experience on eBay (which is why I rarely buy anything used anymore, especially on the internet) where the seller used the exact same phrase of "willing to work with me", which was a huge red flag.  "Working with me" implies that I (or you in this case) was responsible for some part of the solution.  In my bad eBay experience, the "working" aspect was the seller's attempt at buying time.  I personally think your sour transaction should require no action by you beyond going to the post office to send the amp to either the seller or to Woo Audio for full repair.  The seller should send you a check to either refund the whole purchase or to pay Jack Wu to fix it back to specs.
   
  Anyway, I'm only voicing my own concerns based on past experience.  Not trying to scare you at all.
   

  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> The seller has finally contacted me and he is genuinely sorry and is willing to work with me in rectifying this situation.  I would really like to thank him for that, and hopefully the insurance claim will go okay and we'll recover some funds from this.
> 
> I'll update the situation as it goes.  Just wanted to thank you guys once again for all your support.


----------



## K_19

Oh, no, that's not what he said at all.  I just meant figuratively in that he got back to me.  He's going to check with USPS and see how the insurance situation plays out and get back to me, then we'll take it from there. I've mentioned the inadequate packaging to him and I hope he knows to bear the responsibility for it.


----------



## flaming_june

I highly doubt that he will.  Most would push responsibility to other party as much as possible.  In this case if USPS solves  it i think both parties would be happy.  This is percisly the reason why I bought from woo directly instead of second hand.


----------



## David.M

I was planning to purchase a Woo Audio 6 from head-fi sometime in the near future, but now i guess I'll have to do it directly from Jack. :>


----------



## hodgjy

Well, I think it's time to steer this thread back to happier thoughts.  So, here I go.
   
  All I can say is Jack Wu is one classy guy and that Woo Audio is one classy company.  Three weeks ago, I ordered a WA3 at the rock-bottom price (as rock bottom as Woo goes) of $470 as a birthday gift.  Since the time I ordered and when Jack shipped it today, Woo Audio updated their product line.  Essentially, Woo canceled the WA3 and renamed the WA3+ to WA3 (are you following this?).  Since the WA3+ didn't have a pre-amp out option, they are adding a new option for $100 to add a pre-amp to the WA3+ (which is now simply the WA3).  Still following me?  
   
  [I hope I'm not revealing any sensitive information or anything that Jack Wu doesn't want released.  If so, I will gladly edit this post or will ask the mods to delete it if determined too sensitive. I just wanted to share my positive experience and praise Woo Audio.]
   
  Well, anyway, Jack told me today that he essentially upgraded my order for free from the basic WA3 I bought three weeks ago into the new WA3 (the formerly called WA3+) with a free pre-amp upgrade!!!  His rationale was he saw no reason to sell anything less than what they can possible produce.  In other words, he'll never cut corners.
   
  What a wonderful gesture.  What a classy guy.  In the economy of today, it seems like companies are finding every way possible to save a penny here and a dollar there.  However, Woo is different.  They want to send the best product out as possible.  They want to make customers happy.  Gotta love that.  Gotta respect the people behind it all.  Makes me extremely happy.  Makes the gift all the better.


----------



## hodgjy

Can't fault you.  I've been burned on eBay before, so I now stay away.  It's a shame, there are so many good deals buying used, but too many risks to make it worthwhile.  
  
  Quote: 





david.m said:


> I was planning to purchase a Woo Audio 6 from head-fi sometime in the near future, but now i guess I'll have to do it directly from Jack. :>


----------



## atbglenn

hodgjy, congrats on your new Woo! Please post some pictures when you get it


----------



## zeroeight

K19, sorry to hear about your situation.  What does the WA6SE weigh?  20lbs, 30lbs?  There is no way newspaper and bubble wrap should be used to transport something that heavy.  I would have expected double boxed with the original foam/molded plastic insulation, or sans that, with foam pellets stuffed to the gills so the unit does not move around in transit.  Fragile/handle with care lables plastered every where. 
   
  If I were you I would expect a full refund including the cost of shipping back the unit to the original seller who can then take care of his insurance claim.  Hope it turns out well for you, if not then you should publish the seller's name so that others can learn from your mistake.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks, will do.  Since this is a gift, I'm sure there will be competition to listen to it, so I'll try to snap some pictures of it when I can.
   
   
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> hodgjy, congrats on your new Woo! Please post some pictures when you get it


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, I think it's time to steer this thread back to happier thoughts.  So, here I go.
> 
> All I can say is Jack Wu is one classy guy and that Woo Audio is one classy company.  Three weeks ago, I ordered a WA3 at the rock-bottom price (as rock bottom as Woo goes) of $470 as a birthday gift.  Since the time I ordered and when Jack shipped it today, Woo Audio updated their product line.  Essentially, Woo canceled the WA3 and renamed the WA3+ to WA3 (are you following this?).  Since the WA3+ didn't have a pre-amp out option, they are adding a new option for $100 to add a pre-amp to the WA3+ (which is now simply the WA3).  Still following me?
> 
> ...


 

 Woo Audio has always been a classy operation, and I will continue to buy their products for as long as I can.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Woo Audio has always been a classy operation, and I will continue to buy their products for as long as I can.


 

 X2. I'll always be a customer. I wonder what his next release will be.


----------



## El_Doug

i wouldnt be surprised to see something high-powered, due to the onslaught of orthos lately


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





el_doug said:


> i wouldnt be surprised to see something high-powered, due to the onslaught of orthos lately


 

 I'd like to see an integrated amp utilizing EL34 output tubes, 6SN7 drivers. 35 watts per channel. I'd sell my PrimaLuna Prologue 2 and purchase one..


----------



## El_Doug

Woo used to make some speaker amps (monoblocks, iirc) - somehow I doubt they will venture into that world again


----------



## midoo1990

i have to say woo audio and jh audio are the best two companies i worked with,extremly friendly and helpful
  By the way thanks *HeadphoneAddict *and *jc9394 *for your recomendations of jh13 with wa6,i took the plunge two weeks ago and waiting anxiously to hear them together.
  EDIT:now i am looking for a dac and i narrowed it down to two either dac magic or pico dac,what do you guys think?if there is something nicer and lower in cost,i am all ears.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Woo Audio has always been a classy operation, and I will continue to buy their products for as long as I can.


 

      Quote:


atbglenn said:


> X2. I'll always be a customer. I wonder what his next release will be.


 


 X3. The WA5LE will be my next target and I'm really happy with Jack's service and products.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





david.m said:


> I was planning to purchase a Woo Audio 6 from head-fi sometime in the near future, but now i guess I'll have to do it directly from Jack. :>


 


 If the seller could provide the original package from Woo Audio, this would be safe enough to ship to a long way. I have a WA6SE and WA22 received from Jack's exceptional package, both arrived safely and sound terrific.


----------



## Henerenry

I believe Jack will still do speaker amps but only on special request.
   
  Personally, I dont really see where else the product line can go... he has seemed to fill every spot.
   
  I am still waiting to see his WooDac


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> X3. The WA5LE will be my next target and I'm really happy with Jack's service and products.


 
  x4.
  I got to warn you about the WA5LE, they are huge and very heavy 75 lbs. And talk about packaging the 5LE comes in two wood crates 3/8 inch plywood , chrome handles and of-course the molded Styrofoam.
   
  I just got my nos WE300B date codes 5626 on both and have started to break them in, they came double new boxed rapped very tightly with bubble wrap over the inside box and around each tube box.
   
  btw, as long as I have my WA6SE max I will also have the box and Styrofoam inserts, imo its part of my WA6SE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





			
				sillysally said:
			
		

> x4.
> I got to warn you about the WA5LE, they are huge and very heavy 75 lbs. And talk about packaging the 5LE comes in two wood crates 3/8 inch plywood , chrome handles and of-course the molded Styrofoam.
> 
> I just got my nos WE300B date codes 5626 on both and have started to break them in, they came double new boxed rapped very tightly with bubble wrap over the inside box and around each tube box.


 

 Thanks to make me drool and admire,ss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Wondering beside the cost of the amp itself, those up-grade parts, boutique tubes and the shipping cost from US to HK will be killing me.That's why I need to save the funding by now.


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> If the seller could provide the original package from Woo Audio, this would be safe enough to ship to a long way. I have a WA6SE and WA22 received from Jack's exceptional package, both arrived safely and sound terrific.


 

  
  I agree - I recently bought a WA6 and it arrived in good condition.
   
  It looks beautiful, but sadly I have only used it on one occasion; been way too busy.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks to make me drool and admire,ss.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry about that.
  The verdict is far from in on the WE300B, the Shugang Treasure 300B is a wonderful tube in the 5LE and of-course the EML 5U4G mesh is a must have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  btw you may want to look around for the nos TS 6SN7GT round plate, not much more than the Shugang CV181-z but a much better tube.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> i have to say woo audio and jh audio are the best two companies i worked with,extremly friendly and helpful
> By the way thanks *HeadphoneAddict *and *jc9394 *for your recomendations of jh13 with wa6,i took the plunge two weeks ago and waiting anxiously to hear them together.
> EDIT:now i am looking for a dac and i narrowed it down to two either dac magic or pico dac,what do you guys think?if there is something nicer and lower in cost,i am all ears.


 

 gamma2, I love the combo with my JH13/WA6.  Try to find a fat bottle 6EW7 if you don't have it already.


----------



## jc9394

I bought jamato8's EML 274B mesh yesterday, I can't wait to compare it with my EML 5U4G mesh and Sophia princess...  I hope it is worth the money.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Sorry about that.
> The verdict is far from in on the WE300B, the Shugang Treasure 300B is a wonderful tube in the 5LE and of-course the EML 5U4G mesh is a must have.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hehe, not worry about the WE300B since they are rarely found and far from I can afford, saw a pair for sale in HK with engraving mark asking about US1300 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So those EML 300B and 5U4G should be my only choice. I've email John for a pair of nos TS 6SN7GT round plate, now waiting for the invoice for payment. Yeah, it's about time to do some collecting works on the 6SN7. Oops, seem I already own the WA5LE.............


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I bought jamato8's EML 274B mesh yesterday, I can't wait to compare it with my EML 5U4G mesh and Sophia princess...  I hope it is worth the money.


 


 You jc, that's a great deal for a great tube, congrats.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hehe, not worry about the WE300B since they are rarely found and far from I can afford, saw a pair for sale in HK with engraving mark asking about US1300
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No worries, you have a buyer on your WA22...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You jc, that's a great deal for a great tube, congrats.


 
  Yup, it is nice to get up early...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No worries, you have a buyer on your WA22...


 


 Thank you my friend.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thank you my friend.


 

 I probably will comes to HK to pick it up if time allow.  Wait...I can't bring my wife back to HK or she will spend my WA22 funds in a second.


----------



## dannie01

For some LV, Gucci or...................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let me know in advance if you're coming back, beers and snacks will be arond.


----------



## fhuang

ooh you're selling it already
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## jc9394

He is not but I will be ready to buy when he is ready to sell...unless I can't wait anymore and order from Jack...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> ooh you're selling it already
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 Not at the moment yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He is not but I will be ready to buy when he is ready to sell...unless I can't wait anymore and order from Jack...


 


 I will consider to have my schedule earlier than planned if you really can't wait and ready 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I might have to let go my Beta22 for the funding.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oops, we're derailing, this is not the for sale forum....................


----------



## fhuang

can i cut in and get the amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?  i'm here in HK.  just kidding.  i'm broken as hell.. i'm even thinking about selling my power unit.....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I will consider to have my schedule earlier than planned if you really can't wait and ready
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I  will certainly PM you first, I'm still trying to recover my PWD and Sonett purchase.  Not to mention I got my HD800 couple months ago.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> can i cut in and get the amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 We can meet someday..................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My bad, always forgot to make you a call.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I  will certainly PM you first, I'm still trying to recover my PWD and Sonett purchase.  Not to mention I got my HD800 couple months ago.


 

 Me too, the Linn Akurate DS then HD800 and WA22 with parts up-grade almost kill me.
   
  And look forward for your return and visit HK, yeah, you know you'll be a visitor.


----------



## zeroeight

Danni, you should have sold me your WA6SE and saved me the shipping a new one out here and you shipping your old one outta here.  Win-win.  Any other owners in HK want to upgrade their WA6SE?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> Danni, you should have sold me your WA6SE and saved me the shipping a new one out here and you shipping your old one outta here.  Win-win.  Any other owners in HK want to upgrade their WA6SE?


 


 Yeah, but you're too late to join us, too bad. I sold my WA6SE with up-grades to a fellow head-fier in Romania 3 months ago.


----------



## zeroeight

Well, 3 months ago I didn't even know about Woo Audio, nor was I in the market for a headphone amp.  I don't even own good quality headphones.  But since I cannot listen to my speaks much anymore (long story) I was looking to go with headphones.  Need to get my audio kicks and the ipod just isn't doing it.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yeah, but you're too late to join us, too bad. I sold my WA6SE with up-grades to a fellow head-fier in Romania 3 months ago.


----------



## dannie01

I also started from an Ipod and somehow discovered this most poisoned web-site and my wallet then being robbed time over time.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I also started from an Ipod and somehow discovered this most poisoned web-site and my wallet then being robbed time over time.


 

 I guess I'm immune to the poison. I'm still quite satisfied with my lowly WA6


----------



## dannie01

So you're luck man.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

So I just got my WA6 yesterday from a fellow head-fi'er. It was well packaged double box with the original molded styrofoam. I must say it's so much more beautiful in real than in picture and the sound is incredible. I can't wait to try different tubes, for now I have a pair or NOS RCA 6FD7 and a NOS Winged "C" (SED) 5U4G / 5U3C
  The amp work great with my DT990/600Ω, I can't stop listening now.


----------



## dannie01

Congrats Red Devil, there are plenty of power tubes could be use in the WA6, easily found in Ebay and they are cheap too. Try some good rectifiers if possible like the Sophia 274B or the EML, they sound great with WA6.


----------



## hodgjy

I started with a lowly portable cassette player with the $1 included headphones.  Then graduated to a portable cd player with another pair of $1 included headphones.  A few years ago, went the iPod route with the cheap included earbuds.  Read an iPod forum suggesting better cans.  Got those.  Was impressed.  Now, took the plunge on WA3 with 250 ohm Beyer 880s.  Waiting for amp to arrive.  Looking for a whole new level in my sonic experience.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I also started from an Ipod and somehow discovered this most poisoned web-site and my wallet then being robbed time over time.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I guess I'm immune to the poison. I'm still quite satisfied with my lowly WA6


 

 Lowly? Lowly? _*Someone doth short-change their device's virtues.*_
  Poison? Poison? *I think someone confuses a vile of poison with an alluring elixir.*
  I love my WA6 too--just like you. And it still sounds fantastic! In fact, It holds its own against my WA22 when you have the right tube recipe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've paired my WA6 with my DT990/600Ω and I am mighty happy. The WA6 is fully armed with RCA 5R4GY rectifier and 2- GE 6EW7--and the tubes are all from you! And I just got the EML 5U4G mesh plate. I will place that in my WA6 in a few weeks.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Lowly? Lowly? _*Someone doth short-change their device's virtues.*_
> Poison? Poison? *I think someone confuses a vile of poison with an alluring elixir.*
> I love my WA6 too--just like you. And it still sounds fantastic! In fact, It holds its own against my WA22 when you have the right tube recipe.
> 
> ...


 

 I think I'm going to have an afternoon cocktail, or two, or three, to get over my lowly-ness


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I think I'm going to have an afternoon cocktail, or two, or three, to get over my lowly-ness


 
   
  A cocktail--Now _THAT'S_ an elixir I'd go for right now if I weren't at work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Have fun, buddy! Now that should certainly color the sound of any headphone amp! Woo or no!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I just got my nos WE300B date codes 5626 on both and have started to break them in, they came double new boxed rapped very tightly with bubble wrap over the inside box and around each tube box.


 

 I bet those where not cheap.  I thought the EML tubes were supposedly improved versions of the original WE designs, so I'm curious if this genuine WE tube still sounds better than an EML.  You already have EML 300B in your WA5LE if I recall correctly, or were they Shuguang Treasure 300Bs?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The WA6 is fully armed with RCA 5R4GY rectifier and 2- GE 6EW7--and the tubes are all from you! And I just got the EML 5U4G mesh plate. I will place that in my WA6 in a few weeks.


 

 The RCA 5R4GY is what I use in my WA6 too, but I'm very anxious to move to an EML tube.  I think it will finally take the amp to the level I want, and remove the sibilance I hear in some music.
  I personally think you can't beat the 5R4 for what they sell for though.  I paid $8 for mine.  They are a great bargain if you want a big soundstage without a big pricetag.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The RCA 5R4GY is what I use in my WA6 too, but I'm very anxious to move to an EML tube.  I think it will finally take the amp to the level I want, and remove the sibilance I hear in some music.
> I personally think you can't beat the 5R4 for what they sell for though.  I paid $8 for mine.  They are a great bargain if you want a big soundstage without a big pricetag.


 
  Absolutely right. The 5R4 is my favorite tube. Very quiet and very dynamic--Like BIG! You can almost feel the bass within your chest. BOOM! I also got them for very cheap. The 5R4 potato mashers cost a bit more but are built like a Sherman tank and look like they could power one.


----------



## monsieurguzel

I'm the one who used to have the EML 300B mesh tubes in my WA5.  And while it is a georgeous tube that trumps everything in construction, it wasn't exactly my cup of tea on the WA5.  The WA5 was actually built around the more classic 300B tubes and in my opinion has much better bass and impact with something like a 300B Treasure tube than the EML.   EML tubes are technically improved on the classic WE300B in terms of dynamic range, transparency, and detail, but you have to make sure that the amp is built around them. I know that Yamamoto amps are actually built with the EML 300B-XLS tube in mind, making it the best tube for that specific amp.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I bet those where not cheap.  I thought the EML tubes were supposedly improved versions of the original WE designs, so I'm curious if this genuine WE tube still sounds better than an EML.  You already have EML 300B in your WA5LE if I recall correctly, or were they Shuguang Treasure 300Bs?


----------



## sillysally

As just stated above I do not have the EML 300B I have the Shuguang 300B. However I do have the nos matched set of WE300B dated mid June of 1956. And as I have said I just started to break-in the WE300B, the non for profit club I got them from said that these new 300Bs will take at least one week (8 hours a day) to break-in. Right now with just 8 hours on them they are getting a little better but still are all over the place. The only thing I like about the WE300B so far is its bass and clarity, mids are still not very good some of the time because of picking up the background detail, and same goes for the highs. The sound-stage thank god is getting better but it has to stabilize first.
  So for now my Shuguang 300Bs blow away my WE300Bs, but like I said it is way to early to make any comparisons after all it took about 320 hours to break-in my Shuguang 300Bs.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I bet those where not cheap.  I thought the EML tubes were supposedly improved versions of the original WE designs, so I'm curious if this genuine WE tube still sounds better than an EML.  You already have EML 300B in your WA5LE if I recall correctly, or were they Shuguang Treasure 300Bs?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Heh, back in my own little world of cheap tubes I'm breaking in a pair of GE 6FD7 big bottle, early 60's.  Definitely a mixed bag so far.  They are better than the 60's vintage grey plate RCAs in terms of clarity, inner resolution, and control.  Tonal balance is good too with nicely forward vocals, with one large exception.  There is an odd narrow band peakiness in the upper mid/low treble region that results in severe harshness with certain male vocals.  This is a "reach for the power button" not a "reach for the volume button" kind of harshness, and it only manifests itself on certain material.  It's like the headphones are screaming into my ears, a physically cringe worthy sensation.  A shame, because they would be a solid tube otherwise.  I'm hoping more break-in may cure it, but I doubt it.  They did change a lot during their first 20 hours, much more than any other tube I've bought so far.  They were pleasant but soft sounding at first, and the clarity came in steadily over the first few days.  Unfortunately so did this peakiness, so maybe with luck it'll pass.  They cannot touch my RCA 6FD7 blackplate tubes though, nothing else I have tried comes close so far.  The RCAs with the cross shaped plates really seem to be the tubes to have within the 6DE7 family I'm finding.  They are a large cut above the rest of my tubes in nearly every way.  Refined, balanced, with striking inner resolution and PRAT.  Nothing sounds bad on them, ever, even material which I know to have sibilance issues and yet this doesn't come at the expensive of proper clarity and balance on well recorded material either.  They are my magic tubes.    I may as well throw the rest of my drive tubes away to be honest because they do not compare, but until I can get a proper rectifier to use with them I am holding off on using the blackplate RCAs right now.  I really wish I could find a second pair for peace of mind, but I'm starting to think it was dumb luck that I found the pair I have.  I'm grateful at least for the pair I have and hopefully nothing goes wrong with them.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Do you have a picture of those RCA tubes, I have a hard time figuring what you mean by cross shaped plate.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Heh, back in my own little world of cheap tubes I'm breaking in a pair of GE 6FD7 big bottle, early 60's.  Definitely a mixed bag so far.  They are better than the 60's vintage grey plate RCAs in terms of clarity, inner resolution, and control.  Tonal balance is good too with nicely forward vocals, with one large exception.  There is an odd narrow band peakiness in the upper mid/low treble region that results in severe harshness with certain male vocals.  This is a "reach for the power button" not a "reach for the volume button" kind of harshness, and it only manifests itself on certain material.  It's like the headphones are screaming into my ears, a physically cringe worthy sensation.  A shame, because they would be a solid tube otherwise.  I'm hoping more break-in may cure it, but I doubt it.  They did change a lot during their first 20 hours, much more than any other tube I've bought so far.  They were pleasant but soft sounding at first, and the clarity came in steadily over the first few days.  Unfortunately so did this peakiness, so maybe with luck it'll pass.  They cannot touch my RCA 6FD7 blackplate tubes though, nothing else I have tried comes close so far.  The RCAs with the cross shaped plates really seem to be the tubes to have within the 6DE7 family I'm finding.  They are a large cut above the rest of my tubes in nearly every way.  Refined, balanced, with striking inner resolution and PRAT.  Nothing sounds bad on them, ever, even material which I know to have sibilance issues and yet this doesn't come at the expensive of proper clarity and balance on well recorded material either.  They are my magic tubes.    I may as well throw the rest of my drive tubes away to be honest because they do not compare, but until I can get a proper rectifier to use with them I am holding off on using the blackplate RCAs right now.  I really wish I could find a second pair for peace of mind, but I'm starting to think it was dumb luck that I found the pair I have.  I'm grateful at least for the pair I have and hopefully nothing goes wrong with them.


 
   
  I am close to the end of my break-in period and am thinking about tube rolling.
   
  One thing I have noticed in the conversations here about rolling tubes is that there does not seem to be that perfect tube, that is some tubes work in certain frequency bands, or with certain types of vocals.
   
  Is tube rolling more like with eating, on some days you feel like certain foods, and on other days completely different dishes?  I mean is there the perfect tube, or is it that different tubes bring different things to the party?


----------



## hodgjy

It's here! It arrived today!  I've basically setup a whole new system for dedicated hp listening.  Here is a picture of it.  Details will come after the picture.
   

   
  So what we've got here are three new toys all in one picture.  We have the new Woo 3 (formerly known as the WA3+).  We also have the Beyer 880 250 ohm 2005 model.  And the source is new, too.  It's nothing to brag about, but I like it.  It's a little Teac reference (but what does reference mean anymore, anyway? It seems like everyone is putting the title in their stuff now).  It got it on closeout for a super good price.  It was a purchase for part cosmetic, because I wanted a small player to match the amp, but also because reviews I read on it said it was a very neutral, transparent, and extremely detailed player.  I can definitely say it was an upgrade from my old source, which was a $60 DVD player.  My ears aren't going to win any awards for being able to hear differences between sources, but I am happy with that purchase.
   
  So far, I only have about 3 hours on the rig, and I can already say that it is the most detailed, balanced, neutral, and wonderful hp experience of my life.  I can't wait to see what happens as it breaks in and opens up.  Very wonderful.  Another poster here described his Woo as "liquid light."  I would have to agree.  I would even go as far to call it musical sex.  It is wonderful.  Extremely happy with this rig.


----------



## atbglenn

Your system looks great! I hope it give you years of enjoyment 
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's here! It arrived today!  I've basically setup a whole new system for dedicated hp listening.  Here is a picture of it.  Details will come after the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks!  I'm sure it will be loved for a long time.  Now.....just......resist......urge.......to........tube........roll............
   

  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Your system looks great! I hope it give you years of enjoyment


----------



## BIG POPPA

C'mon hodgjy, you have a GEC A1834 calling your name. You will have to try that tube with your rig to find out what your Woo 3 is capable of or a Bendix 6080WB? Have rolled many tubes with my 3+


----------



## hodgjy

I currently have the stock drivers, but I did put in the Sylvania 7236 for power.  I'm not disappointed in it.  I'm sure I'll start rolling in a few weeks.  In the meantime, I going to rediscover my cd collection.  I'm already hearing sounds in my favorite recordings that I've never heard before.

  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> C'mon hodgjy, you have a GEC A1834 calling your name. You will have to try that tube with your rig to find out what your Woo 3 is capable of or a Bendix 6080WB? Have rolled many tubes with my 3+


----------



## atbglenn

Woo needs to update their website.The WA3 shown doesn't have the top nomenclature as shown hodgjy's. It looks so much better now IMO.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, I just experienced my first "opening" so to speak.  Right at 4.5 hours into my initial burn-in session, the soundstage height just exploded.  In general, the soundstage is showing nice signs of early maturation.  When using different rigs, I have heard sound that extended beyond my ears, or sometimes appeared to be on my eyes or on my scalp.  But even with the early stages of my virgin Woo, the soundstage is different than I previously ever experienced.  It's not the widest I've ever heard, in fact, right now it's quite narrow, but I fully understand that with new tubes and new cans it's going to take a little while to burn in and open up.  However, the fullness of the sound between my ears is the best I have ever experienced.  I am perceiving sound above my scalp and down where my neck meets my skull.  And for the first time ever, I am perceiving sound as if it were really inside my brain.  It's weird, but a fully wonderful experience.
   
  I can't wait to see what the future brings with amp, especially with better burn-in on some different tubes.  If can't tell already, I am more than excited about this purchase.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> Do you have a picture of those RCA tubes, I have a hard time figuring what you mean by cross shaped plate.


 

 Sure.  This is an off site link since the picture is large. 
   
  http://spe.midco.net/tyrellgoetz/DSC00166.JPG
   
  You can see the large plate section is shaped like a large ' + ' instead of the usual flat single plate.  I see this type of plate in the 6EW7s, but this is the only 6FD7 I have found with this plate type, and it seems to be the difference maker since it is head and shoulders above anything else I've listened to.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I am close to the end of my break-in period and am thinking about tube rolling.
> 
> One thing I have noticed in the conversations here about rolling tubes is that there does not seem to be that perfect tube, that is some tubes work in certain frequency bands, or with certain types of vocals.
> 
> Is tube rolling more like with eating, on some days you feel like certain foods, and on other days completely different dishes?  I mean is there the perfect tube, or is it that different tubes bring different things to the party?


 
  This is a tough question, since everybody hears things differently.  What sounds perfect to me may not to you, but I think with enough patience there is a tube out there that can hit all the major checkpoints for anybody.  I've found mine, in the RCAs I ranted about above, I'm just restless and like to experiment.  All of my tube rolling has been a mixed bag, there is something I don't like about each of them, with the exception of those RCAs.  I can't recall hearing anything I didn't like with them, which is an impressive achievement.  Listening to them was almost euphoric, they do something with the soundstage and imaging that is unlike anything else I've heard and I love it.  I've talked with people who hate this sound, thinking it makes the music too detached and would rather have a more in the head sound.  So in the end I think you have to experiment and find out what will work best for you.  I suggest trying each of the major options:  6DE7, 6FD7, 6EW7, and try out different brands too.  I personally think the older tubes are better.  Consistently so.  The older the tube is the better it seems to suit me personally, which is a shame because they are so hard to find.  Anything from the mid 60's or newer sounds mediocre to me and is uninvolving after having experienced what the blackplate RCAs can do in the WA6.  Some people like the sound of the newer vintage tubes, citing they are more "fun" sounding.  Experiment and have fun with it!


----------



## Xcalibur255

So, I followed abtglenn's advice on cleaning the tube sockets....... with discomforting results.  I repeated three times with three q-tips and there was still lots of metallic buildup coming out on the third pass.  The pins on all my tubes looked clean, and I cleaned them with alcohol before use so I'm surprised so much is coming off the pins.  I decided to take another crack at the steel wool, and after much patience I think it has made a difference.  I was nervous about doing this because it is nearly impossible to get every last bit of steel wool off the tube after doing this, it is like dust that clings to everything.  At any rate I cleaned them up the best I could short of hitting them with the air compressor (didn't seem like a smart idea to blast a fragile antique vacuum tube that way).  Hopefully all goes well.
   
  I've about written the GE tubes off.  Something in the midrange is just not right with them.  I tried some of my other rectifiers with even worse results than I was getting with the 5R4GY, though the TungSol 5V4G seems to partially fix the issue purely through its talent of good speed and control of the signal.  A few more dollars wasted.
   
  Does anybody here ever feel bad about buying tubes you end up not liking?  I feel like I'm contributing to the shortage of these tubes in a bad way by buying them and then having them sit in my box unused.  But, how else does one discover which tubes they like?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Go to Head-fi meets. That is how I heard a GEC A1834 for the first time on my rig. Seamaster had some.


----------



## markmaxx

I think we all waist a lot of money, trying to find just the right combo..
   
  "I have never sold a tube",  I think I must have 50 pretty expensive tubes,, and like you I have them just sitting in a box in my closet.
  I get my tube info from hanging out with you guys, and reading a lot on the Internet google is my friend. But I think that to live with a certain tube is the only way to truly find what your looking for.
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So, I followed abtglenn's advice on cleaning the tube sockets....... with discomforting results.  I repeated three times with three q-tips and there was still lots of metallic buildup coming out on the third pass.  The pins on all my tubes looked clean, and I cleaned them with alcohol before use so I'm surprised so much is coming off the pins.  I decided to take another crack at the steel wool, and after much patience I think it has made a difference.  I was nervous about doing this because it is nearly impossible to get every last bit of steel wool off the tube after doing this, it is like dust that clings to everything.  At any rate I cleaned them up the best I could short of hitting them with the air compressor (didn't seem like a smart idea to blast a fragile antique vacuum tube that way).  Hopefully all goes well.
> 
> I've about written the GE tubes off.  Something in the midrange is just not right with them.  I tried some of my other rectifiers with even worse results than I was getting with the 5R4GY, though the TungSol 5V4G seems to partially fix the issue purely through its talent of good speed and control of the signal.  A few more dollars wasted.
> 
> Does anybody here ever feel bad about buying tubes you end up not liking?  I feel like I'm contributing to the shortage of these tubes in a bad way by buying them and then having them sit in my box unused.  But, how else does one discover which tubes they like?


----------



## Groundzero

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Heh, back in my own little world of cheap tubes I'm breaking in a pair of GE 6FD7 big bottle, early 60's.  Definitely a mixed bag so far.  They are better than the 60's vintage grey plate RCAs in terms of clarity, inner resolution, and control.  Tonal balance is good too with nicely forward vocals, with one large exception.  There is an odd narrow band peakiness in the upper mid/low treble region that results in severe harshness with certain male vocals.  This is a "reach for the power button" not a "reach for the volume button" kind of harshness, and it only manifests itself on certain material.  It's like the headphones are screaming into my ears, a physically cringe worthy sensation.  A shame, because they would be a solid tube otherwise.  I'm hoping more break-in may cure it, but I doubt it.  They did change a lot during their first 20 hours, much more than any other tube I've bought so far.  They were pleasant but soft sounding at first, and the clarity came in steadily over the first few days.  Unfortunately so did this peakiness, so maybe with luck it'll pass.  They cannot touch my RCA 6FD7 blackplate tubes though, nothing else I have tried comes close so far.  The RCAs with the cross shaped plates really seem to be the tubes to have within the 6DE7 family I'm finding.  They are a large cut above the rest of my tubes in nearly every way.  Refined, balanced, with striking inner resolution and PRAT.  Nothing sounds bad on them, ever, even material which I know to have sibilance issues and yet this doesn't come at the expensive of proper clarity and balance on well recorded material either.  They are my magic tubes.    I may as well throw the rest of my drive tubes away to be honest because they do not compare, but until I can get a proper rectifier to use with them I am holding off on using the blackplate RCAs right now.  I really wish I could find a second pair for peace of mind, but I'm starting to think it was dumb luck that I found the pair I have.  I'm grateful at least for the pair I have and hopefully nothing goes wrong with them.


 

 I'm finding that my Philco 6FD7s have that same 
   
  Quote: 





> "reach for the power button" not a "reach for the volume button" kind of harshness ... a physically cringe worthy sensation


 
  It seems to be most apparent in piano, but also shows itself with brass and strings. This being my first pair of 6FD7s I'm slightly disappointed because my TS 6DE7s do everything just as good, with the exception of SS. The Tung Sols also have a special warmth that I find myself missing more and more while listening to 6FD7. I did hear about a new local tube shop today so maybe I'll get lucky and score some 6FD7 cross plates


----------



## hodgjy

Question.
   
  The stock driver tubes that came with my WA3 are labeled at "International Servicemaster" e88cc.  I know Servicemaster never made tubes--they just rebranded.  The only info on the tube that can help is it says "Yugoslavia."  Does anyone know what the original OEM of this tube might be?


----------



## sillysally

Day three 24 hours on tubes, these tubes have surpassed the Shunuang 300B. After day two they where close, they just seem to get better and better.
  So once again i cation anybody that is thinking about the WA5LE, tube rolling is noting like my WA6SE as far as the cost and what the right tubes can and will do for the amp.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As just stated above I do not have the EML 300B I have the Shuguang 300B. However I do have the nos matched set of WE300B dated mid June of 1956. And as I have said I just started to break-in the WE300B, the non for profit club I got them from said that these new 300Bs will take at least one week (8 hours a day) to break-in. Right now with just 8 hours on them they are getting a little better but still are all over the place. The only thing I like about the WE300B so far is its bass and clarity, mids are still not very good some of the time because of picking up the background detail, and same goes for the highs. The sound-stage thank god is getting better but it has to stabilize first.
> So for now my Shuguang 300Bs blow away my WE300Bs, but like I said it is way to early to make any comparisons after all it took about 320 hours to break-in my Shuguang 300Bs.


----------



## jc9394

Received my EML 274B today, will give it a world later tonight against my princess.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Received my EML 274B today, will give it a world later tonight against my princess.


 

 Looking forward to it.  I wonder if it would be a better match for my HD800 in the WA6 than the Princess...


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Sure.  This is an off site link since the picture is large.
> 
> http://spe.midco.net/tyrellgoetz/DSC00166.JPG
> 
> You can see the large plate section is shaped like a large ' + ' instead of the usual flat single plate.  I see this type of plate in the 6EW7s, but this is the only 6FD7 I have found with this plate type, and it seems to be the difference maker since it is head and shoulders above anything else I've listened to.


 


 Thanks, those don't look at all like my RCA 6FD7 mine have the standard flat plate. I will have to look for those.


  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Received my EML 274B today, will give it a world later tonight against my princess.


 


 Looking forward to your impression.


----------



## hodgjy

My temptation not to roll lasted one day.  I orderd NOS JAN Sylvania 6DJ8 matched.  It's not because I'm not happy with the stock tubes, because I am.  I just have no idea who made them and what they're "supposed" to sound like as they mature.  At least I can have a preconceived notion how my new Sylvanias are supposed to sound.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My temptation not to roll lasted one day.  I orderd NOS JAN Sylvania 6DJ8 matched.  It's not because I'm not happy with the stock tubes, because I am.  I just have no idea who made them and what they're "supposed" to sound like as they mature.  At least I can have a preconceived notion how my new Sylvanias are supposed to sound.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> I think we all waist a lot of money, trying to find just the right combo..
> 
> "I have never sold a tube",  I think I must have 50 pretty expensive tubes,, and like you I have them just sitting in a box in my closet.
> I get my tube info from hanging out with you guys, and reading a lot on the Internet google is my friend. But I think that to live with a certain tube is the only way to truly find what your looking for.


 

 I concur, man.  I don't have many tubes, but I have bought some very nice ones off of eBay that are just sitting in a box.  I got incredibly lucky with the bids, and my plan was to sell a pair (bought two pairs), but I just can't part with them!  Maybe one day...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I just swapped out my NU 6F8Gs for the stock GE 6SN7 GTAs (yes, heresy, I know), but I'm very interested in the sound difference.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Received my EML 274B today, will give it a world later tonight against my princess.


 

 I'm looking forward to your impressions as well.  I skipped buying a Sophia with the idea of going straight to the EML 274B, but I just don't have the extra money to do it right now.


----------



## mikemalter

Nice looking rig!  I hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's here! It arrived today!  I've basically setup a whole new system for dedicated hp listening.  Here is a picture of it.  Details will come after the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Yes, you hit the nail on the head for me too as I was breaking my unit in.  The fullness of the sound is incredible.
   
  I hope you share more of your experiences as your break in continues.

  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, I just experienced my first "opening" so to speak.  Right at 4.5 hours into my initial burn-in session, the soundstage height just exploded.  In general, the soundstage is showing nice signs of early maturation.  When using different rigs, I have heard sound that extended beyond my ears, or sometimes appeared to be on my eyes or on my scalp.  But even with the early stages of my virgin Woo, the soundstage is different than I previously ever experienced.  It's not the widest I've ever heard, in fact, right now it's quite narrow, but I fully understand that with new tubes and new cans it's going to take a little while to burn in and open up.  However, the fullness of the sound between my ears is the best I have ever experienced.  I am perceiving sound above my scalp and down where my neck meets my skull.  And for the first time ever, I am perceiving sound as if it were really inside my brain.  It's weird, but a fully wonderful experience.
> 
> I can't wait to see what the future brings with amp, especially with better burn-in on some different tubes.  If can't tell already, I am more than excited about this purchase.


----------



## mikemalter

Thanks for your impressions, I'm going to refer back to your thread when I begin my testing.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is a tough question, since everybody hears things differently.  What sounds perfect to me may not to you, but I think with enough patience there is a tube out there that can hit all the major checkpoints for anybody.  I've found mine, in the RCAs I ranted about above, I'm just restless and like to experiment.  All of my tube rolling has been a mixed bag, there is something I don't like about each of them, with the exception of those RCAs.  I can't recall hearing anything I didn't like with them, which is an impressive achievement.  Listening to them was almost euphoric, they do something with the soundstage and imaging that is unlike anything else I've heard and I love it.  I've talked with people who hate this sound, thinking it makes the music too detached and would rather have a more in the head sound.  So in the end I think you have to experiment and find out what will work best for you.  I suggest trying each of the major options:  6DE7, 6FD7, 6EW7, and try out different brands too.  I personally think the older tubes are better.  Consistently so.  The older the tube is the better it seems to suit me personally, which is a shame because they are so hard to find.  Anything from the mid 60's or newer sounds mediocre to me and is uninvolving after having experienced what the blackplate RCAs can do in the WA6.  Some people like the sound of the newer vintage tubes, citing they are more "fun" sounding.  Experiment and have fun with it!


----------



## Xcalibur255

It certainly has been interesting so far.... tube rolling.  One thing I've noticed is that the way we evaluate and listen can change too.  I went back and re-read my old tube impressions and I don't completely agree with all of them anymore, simply because I have realized new things to focus on or pay attention to.  Giving tubes enough time to properly break-in is also something I needed to learn before finalizing judgements.  The TungSol recitifer I hated so much before does pretty well for some things now that I've given it a proper chance.  The tiny sounstage will never be my cup of tea, but I can appreciate what it does well.  One of the best parts of this hobby, I think, is how it evolves and stays interesting all on its own somehow.
   
  If soundstage presentation is a big deal for you, mikemalter, you are in for a treat.  The Woo will just keep getting better in this area.  With the right combination of tubes you can get the sounstage way out of your head.  On recordings that have a lot of ambience my best RCA tubes place some instruments and sounds at what seems to me like at least 12-18" _outside_ of my head which to me is incredible and is really one of those "wow" moments I was waiting for when I got into headphones in the first place.
   
  Rectifiers seem to have a large influence on soundstage in general I've found.  My 5V4Gs pull it almost completely inside my head, where as the 5R4GY places it almost completely outside except for vocals.  The Sophia probably does a better job of this than any tube in my collection, and the EML supposedly does even better still which is why I'm so excited to buy one eventually.


----------



## TheAudioDude

This may be a little off-topic (not really, though), but has anyone heard from Seamaster?  He hasn't posted in a couple of months.  Maybe he finally reached tube bliss and can't stop listening to music?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Seamaster is tied up with his job. He should be back by the end of the month. Made sure I had a date for the Seattle meet that he could attend.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks.  I love it so far.  Once I start rolling some tubes, it will become more of a game and I'm sure I'll love it even more. 
   
  I did notice one small thing, and that's the power tube socket isn't perfectly centered in the hole machined in the cosmetic sheet of aluminum.  I'd say it's about 10-15% off center.  My current power tube fits in it just fine, but one side of the tube's plastic base is all the way against one edge of the metal.  No big deal...but if I ever start rolling power tubes, and if I want to try any tube that might have a wider bottom it could be a problem.  But, I think the tube I currently have in there might be the widest of the lot, so we're ok.  I'm using the 7236, and it has the same bottom size as the 6080 that came with the unit.  If I ever want to try a 5998, I think that tube has a much narrower base.
   
  Such is the nature of hand-made goods.  Everyone is different and uniquely your own.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Nice looking rig!  I hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Thanks.  I love it so far.  Once I start rolling some tubes, it will become more of a game and I'm sure I'll love it even more.
> 
> I did notice one small thing, and that's the power tube socket isn't perfectly centered in the hole machined in the cosmetic sheet of aluminum.  I'd say it's about 10-15% off center.  My current power tube fits in it just fine, but one side of the tube's plastic base is all the way against one edge of the metal.  No big deal...but if I ever start rolling power tubes, and if I want to try any tube that might have a wider bottom it could be a problem.  But, I think the tube I currently have in there might be the widest of the lot, so we're ok.  I'm using the 7236, and it has the same bottom size as the 6080 that came with the unit.  If I ever want to try a 5998, I think that tube has a much narrower base.
> 
> Such is the nature of hand-made goods.  Everyone is different and uniquely your own.


 
  It may actually be the tubes.  I thought the plate on my amp was off center as well, but after looking more closely some of my tubes are perfectly centered in the holes and others were not so the tubes themselves were the variation.


----------



## hodgjy

It's actually a combination of both.  I took the tube out and look at the socket, and the socket is the major culprit, but the tube is a little, too.  But, from what I read so far, I think the 7236 tube has the fattest bottom, so if that fits, I should have no problem getting other tubes in there.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It may actually be the tubes.  I thought the plate on my amp was off center as well, but after looking more closely some of my tubes are perfectly centered in the holes and others were not so the tubes themselves were the variation.


----------



## mikemalter

Thought I'd do a little tube rolling today, so instead of the upgraded tubes that came with my WA22, I thought I'd try the stock tubes pictured below.
   
  Being new to tube rolling, I thought I'd post my impressions and get some feedback to help guide me in getting the most of of it.
   
  I can see why those upgraded tubes cost more, Right out of the box they were sweet sounding and easy to listen to right away.  The stock tubes sound more course - I'm sure this will change somewhat as they get time.  Also from a tonal perspective the audio is not as rich or full sounding.
   
  The biggest thing for me is that there seems to be something that is giving me a headach, it's like pressure on my head as I am listening.  Kind of like coming down in an airplane and it's a little disorienting.
   
  The other thing is that the tubes are not as powerful as the upgraded tubes.  I have my headphone setting on high impedence and the folume cranked up to the 9 o'clock position, and on one song, almost at 12.  With the upgraded tubes in there, I'd blow my ears out if I cranked the volume up that high.  With the upgrades, I have impedence set to low and am usually one or two clicks.
   
  Having said that, the sonic signature of the amp did not change, I can hear the Woo in there.
   
  Any thoughts?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The biggest thing for me is that there seems to be something that is giving me a headach, it's like pressure on my head as I am listening.  Kind of like coming down in an airplane and it's a little disorienting.
> 
> Any thoughts?


 

 Headache? I've got one too but maybe for other reasons. I seem to get it when wearing my HD650. After listening to them for even a few minutes and then removing them from my head, my head feels tight but a wee bit relieved--like I've just surfaced the water after being under about 8 ft of it for a few seconds. I think the arch is too tight. Also, that glass of wine (or two) may have contributed to this predicament. Anyway, mikemalter, have a great end-of-weekend.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The other thing is that the tubes are not as powerful as the upgraded tubes.  I have my headphone setting on high impedence and the folume cranked up to the 9 o'clock position, and on one song, almost at 12.  With the upgraded tubes in there, I'd blow my ears out if I cranked the volume up that high.  With the upgrades, I have impedence set to low and am usually one or two clicks.
> 
> Having said that, the sonic signature of the amp did not change, I can hear the Woo in there.
> 
> Any thoughts?


 
   
  Hmm, only one or two notches up on the volume dial seems pretty strange/overpowered to me.  In my amp I have the TS 7236s, NU 6F8Gs, and EML 5U4G, and I listen to probably 85% of my music at about 10 o'clock, with only a tiny amount of music (Pink Floyd) at 12 o'clock.  I never go above 12.  I couldn't imagine having only two or even three notches on the volume dial to work with; it would be very weird having a song be completely silent, then one click later having it be at a normal listening level.
   
  BTW, are you using 6SN7s as your upgraded tubes?  If so, which ones?  I'd like to expand my horizons a bit and see what the better quality 6SN7s have to offer over my 6F8Gs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Headache? I've got one too but maybe for other reasons. I seem to get it when wearing my HD650. After listening to them for even a few minutes and then removing them from my head, my head feels tight but a wee bit relieved--like I've just surfaced the water after being under about 8 ft of it for a few seconds. I think the arch is too tight. Also, that glass of wine (or two) may have contributed to this predicament. Anyway, mikemalter, have a great end-of-weekend.


 

 Clayton, how are you liking the D7000?  This weekend I had quite a bit of listening time, and I swear I just can't get rid of the sibilance in some songs.  In the past I've made upgrades and it seems like it's gone, but then I'll listen at a later time and it'll be more noticeable.  I finally gave in and EQ'd foobar down about 2dB from 5-10kHz, and it seems to have helped a noticeable amount.


----------



## mikemalter

The upgraded tubes are:

 Power: Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
 Driver: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT
 Rectifier: Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B
   
  The stock tubes are:

 Power: RCA 6080
 Driver: GE 6sn7 GTB
 Rectifier:  Some Russian tube, I think a 5z4g
   
  Well, the sound has settled down a bit and I am still feeling a little pressure on my ears, but not like before.
   
  On my PS Audio P600 I can see I am drawing 20 amps where with the upgraded tubes I only draw 10.  This is really interesting to me in that the upgraded set is much louder and at the same time draw much less power.
   
  I remember reading that the Shuguang Treasure has that black stuff inside which is supposed to generate more power with less electricity.  At any rate, something is going on - twice the volume at 1/2 the power draw.
   
  Anyway, these tubes sound pretty good.  I'm going to leave them in for a while and then switch back to get a good comparison.
   
   

  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Hmm, only one or two notches up on the volume dial seems pretty strange/overpowered to me.  In my amp I have the TS 7236s, NU 6F8Gs, and EML 5U4G, and I listen to probably 85% of my music at about 10 o'clock, with only a tiny amount of music (Pink Floyd) at 12 o'clock.  I never go above 12.  I couldn't imagine having only two or even three notches on the volume dial to work with; it would be very weird having a song be completely silent, then one click later having it be at a normal listening level.
> 
> BTW, are you using 6SN7s as your upgraded tubes?  If so, which ones?  I'd like to expand my horizons a bit and see what the better quality 6SN7s have to offer over my 6F8Gs.
> 
> ...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike-
   
  I bought my WA22 with the Sylvania 7236 NOS power tubes also and I have experienced similar results.  They seem to up the volume considerably compared to other power tubes that I have (GEC 6AS7G and TungSol 5998).  In terms of volume I would rank this way:  Sylvania 1st, TunSol 2nd, GEC 3rd.  In terms of my enjoyment I would rank GEC 1st but I haven't decided if I like TunSol or Sylvania better.  I think I might like the Sylvania that you have 2nd best.  They seem very lively.  With the GECs I end up going way past 12 to about 3 o'clock when listening with my HD800 on Lo impedence setting.  I don't think I've put the Sylvanias back in since I got my HD800 but with my D7000 I would listen between 3-5 o'clock and it was plenty loud.  I may have to try the Sylvanias again now that I'm typing this.  Unfortunately I'm still without my EML Rectifier which stopped working about 2 weeks ago.  Really missing that ... it sounds much better than the stock one Jack sent with the WA22.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I just read what I posted and I meant to say with the D7000 and the Sylvanias I would listen between 9-11 o'clock (1/4 turn or so).  With the HD800 and the GECs I'm at 3/4 turn quite often ... with the D7000 I can get by with 1/2 turn + a little with the GECs.  Too many tequilas tonight


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> On my PS Audio P600 I can see I am drawing 20 amps where with the upgraded tubes I only draw 10.  This is really interesting to me in that the upgraded set is much louder and at the same time draw much less power.


 

  There is no way a WA22 draws even 10 amps. Thats 1200 watts at 120 volts. Large power amplifiers might come close at full power, but not a headphone amp. Maybe you're reading a wattage scale?


----------



## hodgjy

First impression of tube rolling in my WA3:
   
  I never used the stock power tube until this weekend.  While I was waiting for my WA3 to be built and shipped, I ordered a Sylvania 7236 power tube.  I used this from day one. 
   
  My impressions of that tube:
  Very punchy bass.  Good low extension.  It has good speed, and would be a great tube for metal, alternative, grunge, and maybe even funk.  It's not overly good with the high frequencies, but this may be more tied to the preamp tubes.  Until I can roll those, I'll not be able to tell for sure.  The tube is very clean and very linear.  It's not fatiguing at all.  It has all the precision of solid state, but has the non-fatiguing nature of good tubes.  Very impressed with this tube so far.
   
  I decided to roll in the stock RCA 6080 over the weekend.  This tube is definitely a step backwards from the 7236.  It is warmer, so that's good.  But, the bass is less defined.  It sounds kind of sloppy and less controlled.  It's definitely a slower tube.  It would be great for acoustic guitar, bluegrass, and other mellow music.  It falls apart on metal and grunge.  I also think it's a darker and more liquid tube than the 7236.  It's not a bad tube, and many people might really like the sound it generates, but for my listening preferences, the 7236 is the winner so far.  The 6080 just seems to fall apart on really fast, complex music like metal, whereas the 7236 holds it together.  Like I said earlier, this tube might be perfect for people that like slower, more intimate music.  I'll probably roll it in when listening to newer Mark Knopfler and other slow music.
   
  I ordered a Svetlana 6H13C and will compare that with the 7236 once it arrives and I can burn it in a little.
   
  Once my Jan Sylvania 6DJ8 preamp tubes arrive, I'll also post my impressions of those.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I just read what I posted and I meant to say with the D7000 and the Sylvanias I would listen between 9-11 o'clock (1/4 turn or so).  With the HD800 and the GECs I'm at 3/4 turn quite often ... with the D7000 I can get by with 1/2 turn + a little with the GECs.  Too many tequilas tonight


 
   
  Put the tequila down and step away from the amplifier!


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> There is no way a WA22 draws even 10 amps. Thats 1200 watts at 120 volts. Large power amplifiers might come close at full power, but not a headphone amp. Maybe you're reading a wattage scale?


 


 +1
  10 or 20 Watts seem right, there's no way that those readings are amps.


----------



## mikemalter

Got me!
   
  I meant to say 10 watts, sorry.  I am getting the metrics off of the readout on my P600.  It's 10 watts for the upgraded tubes, and 20 watts for the stock tubes.
  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> There is no way a WA22 draws even 10 amps. Thats 1200 watts at 120 volts. Large power amplifiers might come close at full power, but not a headphone amp. Maybe you're reading a wattage scale?


----------



## mikemalter

Wanted to post my tube rolling impressions from today.  Continued with the stock tubes, and that ultrasonic pressure is now gone.  Also I have noticed that the amp is much hotter than with the upgraded tubes.
   
  I still have the impedence set to high and the volume control is between 9 and 12.
   
  Having said all of that, the music sounds really nice - I still have that lively, full, rich and fast Woo sound.  After a few days, I'll put the upgraded tubes back in and then it will be interesting to compare.
   
  Bottom line so far, even with the stock tubes, the WA22 ain't shabby.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The upgraded tubes are:
> 
> Power: Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
> Driver: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT
> ...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Wanted to post my tube rolling impressions from today.  Continued with the stock tubes, and that ultrasonic pressure is now gone.  Also I have noticed that *the amp is much hotter than with the upgraded tubes*.
> 
> I still have the impedence set to high and the volume control is between 9 and 12.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for the up-date, Mike.
   
  I have a very similar result with your impression, the WA22 still sounds very good with stock tubes. The sibilance and fatigue in highs and mids with my HD800 now become tamed after about 200 hrs of burn-in. Also, the heat generated when using the 6080 power tubes, found that the power output transformer (the centre one) is much hotter that when using with TS5998. Having checked the data sheet of these two tubes, if my memory correct, the current drawn of the 5998 should be higher than 6080 but that weird the result is the 6080s get the amp hotter than a higher current drawing 5998s.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> On my PS Audio P600 I can see I am drawing 20 amps where with the upgraded tubes I only draw 10.  This is really interesting to me in that the upgraded set is much louder and at the same time draw much less power.


 

 Wow, how cool is that. A PS Audio P600. I've seen pictures of it--not only is it a beautifully designed chunk of equipment and impressive looking but it's massive as well, isn't it? Doesn't it weigh something like 5,000 pounds?


----------



## mikemalter

I almost posted a photo of it last weekend, but got too busy.  I wanted to start a thread about power conditioning here and get a discussion going about it. 
   
  What I really like about the P600 is that it outputs regenerated power, that is the sine wave is perfectly shaped and 60 Hz and I can step up the voltage to a consistent 120 volts.
   
  One of the best things we can do for our listening experiences is to condition our power.  If someone runs a hair dryer or heavy machinery on our circuit, it can be heard through our gear.  Having a power regenerator ends that and outputs perfect power.  That alone will kick up the listening experience a lot.  Much of what we are listening to are the details in the music, and when you have power driving components that is dirty, the experience is colored by that bad power.
   
  It was expensive, but it also was the best piece of audio gear I ever owned and as pieces came and went, and will come and go, that P600 is going to stay.  I have been keeping my eye out on Audiogon for a P300, and am watching to get a sense of what a fair price would be.  It is funny, but they come up for sale and then are gone in a few days.  I want to get one for my office where I have my WA22 during the week.
   
  I'll post some pictures of the P600 this weekend with some really interesting articles about power regeneration.
   
  Oh, yes; and it weighs a lot!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow, how cool is that. A PS Audio P600. I've seen pictures of it--not only is it a beautifully designed chunk of equipment and impressive looking but it's massive as well, isn't it? Doesn't it weigh something like 5,000 pounds?


----------



## Red_Devil_24

I'm looking foward to your pics and article. The P600 is on my list after a nice Dac.
  Do you know how much they are going for?


----------



## sillysally

For PS Audio power stations you may want to take a look at the Iron Lung Jelly Fish power cord and a set of 4 Isonode large.
  I use these on my PS audio primer power station.


----------



## K_19

For anyone that may have been wondering about my (damaged) unit... I've contacted Jack myself and apparently I have the first ever WA6SE unit that he ever built.  So atbglenn was more or less right when he thought that it was a prototype.  That's the reason why it never had a serial or any labelling in the back.
   
  Jack seems to be very willing to help me out here with the repair process (and do it for a reasonable price), but I'll have to send it back to him for inspection and see exactly what the problem is.  I've requested the original packing materials from him, or for him to suggest appropriate packing method for it.  From what he saw in my (crappy) pictures, he cannot see any obvious internal defects which results in only left channel working.  The transformer covers, input jacks, and knobs will all be replaceable but the main chassis itself won't be unfortunately.  So either way I'll have to live with some scratches.  Fortunately I am not that big on aesthetics and such so I'll be okay with it.
   
  As for the situation itself, A mod has contacted the seller and we're all trying to work it out so I won't say anything beyond that at this point.


----------



## Clayton SF

That Iron Lung Jelly Fish power cord is very inexpensive and an impressive buy for $29. Any step in the right direction to allow Woo Amps the ability to perform to the max is great in my book. But here's a newbie question (in the audiophile power chord realm, that is). Why would you replace the stock power cord with an audiophile power cord If power regenerators like the PPP and the PS P600 already rebuilds your old household AC power into new, pure, regulated AC? At any rate I shall look into the ILJF power cords to go from the regenderator's output to the Woo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT: I reread your post--perhaps that what you suggested to do in the first place.


----------



## hodgjy

From my limited dealings with Jack, he has demonstrated that he is an upstanding, classy man (see my post about the free upgrade he gave me).  His willingness to help you is of no surprise at all to me.
   
  I certainly hope this gets all resolved.  First, for the money aspect of it, but also more importantly, just for the hobby aspect of it.  It's never fun when your hobbies, which are supposed to bring enjoyment, turn sour and cause resentment and frustration.
  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Jack seems to be very willing to help me out here with the repair process (and do it for a reasonable price)
> 
> As for the situation itself, A mod has contacted the seller and we're all trying to work it out so I won't say anything beyond that at this point.


----------



## atbglenn

K_19, whatever happens, we're all rooting for you.


----------



## sillysally

Actually PS Audio suggests you do this along with the anti vibration feet.
   
  As far as power cords go, I use 2 Black Sands violet V1s (1m) for both my source player and my Woo PSU.


----------



## hodgjy

I just took delivery of my JAN Sylvania matched pair 6DJ8 NOS.  I've been listening to them for an hour in my WA3.  All I can say is, "Holy crap."
   
  Before rolling them in: I thought the stock tubes were good.
   
  After rolling in the Sylvanias: Stock tubes are terrible.
   
  The Sylvanias are a huge upgrade, even as un-burned in virgins.  Their soundstage is huge.  They are warm, liquid, and airy all at once.  Their noise floor is as low as I've ever heard.  Extremely detailed without being bright.
   
  Excellent tubes.  I can't wait to hear how they'll be like in 80 hours considering they were great fresh out of the box!!!
   
  Very satisfied with this purchase.  I'm currently using them with the 7236 power tube.  I have a 6H13C coming on Friday, so I'll see how that goes.  But, either way, I think I'm done rolling for a while.  I found great preamp tubes, and I like the power tube.  Just want to see how they synergize with the new power tube.


----------



## hodgjy

My holy crap factor continues to increase exponentially.  Let me just use this is my most pertinent example.
   
  Alice in Chains has been one of my favorite bands for about 20 years now.  I've listened to all their albums through cheap cassette walkmans, cd discmans, and portable mp3 players using a range of cans ranging from terrible to slightly better than crap.  You know, the cheap earbuds, the behind the ear street-style, and other cheap cans "optimized for iPod."
   
  I've always liked Alice in Chains.  Good rhythm.  Good grunge.  I thought it had a nice beat.
   
  Well, it wasn't until I played Alice through my WA3 with my new JAN Sylvania 6DJ8 that I actually learned that Alice is very musically complex.  I had no idea how deep and layered their sound is.  They have all kinds of subtle texturing.  They have all kinds of melodies and counter-melodies.  Bass lines and counter bass lines.  It is amazing.
   
  I know this expression gets old and is probably over-used, but I literally am hearing sounds in my favorite music that I've never heard before!  
   
  I guess this is my baptism into the world of good cans and good amps.  No more cheap crap for me!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I know this expression gets old and is probably over-used, but I literally am hearing sounds in my favorite music that I've never heard before!


 

 Some of the best nights of my life have been spent rifling through my music collection trying to keep this amazing feeling going after a gear upgrade.  The best thing is, it can happen over and over again as you get deeper into the audiophile world.  I figured I had heard everything I was going to hear from some songs by now, having gotten better and better gear over the years but when I rolled those black crossplate RCA 6FD7s into my WA6 I again heard things in songs I never even knew were there.  That, and the relationship between various melodies and how they are supposed to layer and interact to form larger harmonies has become more apparent to me than ever before since I got the Woo amp too.  Definitely worth every penny.


----------



## hodgjy

I would have paid twice as much as Woo charged me for the WA3 had I known it was going to be this good of an experience.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Definitely worth every penny.


----------



## Denys

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My holy crap factor continues to increase exponentially.  Let me just use this is my most pertinent example.
> 
> Alice in Chains has been one of my favorite bands for about 20 years now.  I've listened to all their albums through cheap cassette walkmans, cd discmans, and portable mp3 players using a range of cans ranging from terrible to slightly better than crap.  You know, the cheap earbuds, the behind the ear street-style, and other cheap cans "optimized for iPod."
> 
> ...


 


 Welcome in the audiophile world !!! Start saving now for your future amp !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I just got my WA6SE a month ago.... Since then, I am rediscovering my CDs....
   
  Best audiophile move I've ever made along with the purchase of my Senn HD800
   
  Enjoy !!
   
  Denys


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I would have paid twice as much as Woo charged me for the WA3 had I known it was going to be this good of an experience.


 

 I almost did with all the upgrades. Definitely did with all the tubes and accessories.


----------



## hodgjy

I already dropped in over $100 in tube rolling in less than a week of getting the amp.  No regrets as it's been fun as heck so far.
  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> I almost did with all the upgrades. Definitely did with all the tubes and accessories.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> For anyone that may have been wondering about my (damaged) unit... I've contacted Jack myself and apparently I have the first ever WA6SE unit that he ever built.  So atbglenn was more or less right when he thought that it was a prototype.  That's the reason why it never had a serial or any labelling in the back.
> 
> Jack seems to be very willing to help me out here with the repair process (and do it for a reasonable price), but I'll have to send it back to him for inspection and see exactly what the problem is.  I've requested the original packing materials from him, or for him to suggest appropriate packing method for it.  From what he saw in my (crappy) pictures, he cannot see any obvious internal defects which results in only left channel working.  The transformer covers, input jacks, and knobs will all be replaceable but the main chassis itself won't be unfortunately.  So either way I'll have to live with some scratches.  Fortunately I am not that big on aesthetics and such so I'll be okay with it.
> 
> As for the situation itself, A mod has contacted the seller and we're all trying to work it out so I won't say anything beyond that at this point.


 


 if you are willing to sell your wa6 in the future,you will take a huge loss because of the appearnce and scratches.as i said in the other thread,you should take all your money back.
  hope things go smoothley.


----------



## hodgjy

I think the whole point here is he's already out a ton of money as it is.  He's just trying to salvage some worth from it.  Right now, out all money, has no amp. 
  
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> if you are willing to sell your wa6 in the future,you will take a huge loss because of the appearnce and scratches.as i said in the other thread,you should take all your money back.
> hope things go smoothley.


----------



## mikemalter

Clayton, that is a really good question.  I am certainly not the expert here.  My understanding is that upmarket powercords have shielding to help preserve current attributes and then there is the physics of electricity behaving in a physical environment, and my limited understanding is that thicker wire is better.
   
  The PS Audio website (and I am sure other vendors too) have links to material that explain these concepts.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That Iron Lung Jelly Fish power cord is very inexpensive and an impressive buy for $29. Any step in the right direction to allow Woo Amps the ability to perform to the max is great in my book. But here's a newbie question (in the audiophile power chord realm, that is). Why would you replace the stock power cord with an audiophile power cord If power regenerators like the PPP and the PS P600 already rebuilds your old household AC power into new, pure, regulated AC? At any rate I shall look into the ILJF power cords to go from the regenderator's output to the Woo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Would a Pico DAC be a sufficient source for, say, a Woo 3?


----------



## jc9394

paganini alfredo said:


> Would a Pico DAC be a sufficient source for, say, a Woo 3?







 Yes but you should consider the gamma2 too.


----------



## Bastido

The subject line makes it look like there is only *one* Woo amp owner in the world. I was going to buy a Woo but then decided the LunchboxPro gave me more bang for the buck.


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes but you should consider the gamma2 too.


 
  But isn't that a DIY dealyo? Plus I like that the Pico has a USB hookup.


----------



## jc9394

paganini alfredo said:


> But isn't that a DIY dealyo? Plus I like that the Pico has a USB hookup.







 Gamma2 have USB input too, you can get it build by MisterX around the same price as Pico DAC and less time waiting.


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

oh, fantastic. How can I contact mysterious Mr. X?


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> oh, fantastic. How can I contact mysterious Mr. X?


 

 See towards the bottom on this page


----------



## mikemalter

Well, disaster has finally struck.  I was changing a pair of driver tubes, and my rectifier went up in a shower of sparks inside the tube as the filament burnt up.
   
  I immediately turned off the amp, and now the amp will not work.
   
  Last night was running the stock RCA 6080 power tubes because the Sylvania 7236 upgrade power tubes made the amp too loud.  At the same time I was also running stock GE 6SN7 driver tubes along with the upgraded Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B rectifier.  I was thinking, nice and decided that in the morning I would replace the stock drivers with the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z.
   
  So, I put in the Shuguang's and then BAM, the Sophia goes up.
   
  After that I replaced everything with everything I had and could not get the WA22 up.
   
  I'm posting photos of the innards, maybe if you guys could take a look, you might see something.  I looked, but don't know enough to know what to look for.  Glad I saved the original box.
   
  Here are the photos:
   

  

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   
   
  Any thoughts welcomed.


----------



## mckinetic

Dude my prayers go out to you and your amp. I don't even have one, not yet anyway. Good luck to you.


----------



## mckinetic

Ok how much tech knowledge do you have? I ask so I know what level of questions to ask.


----------



## mikemalter

Not much, but fire away - maybe it will do some good.
  
  Quote: 





mckinetic said:


> Ok how much tech knowledge do you have? I ask so I know what level of questions to ask.


----------



## dannie01

Sorry to hear about your disaster, mike. I'm not expert but I suspect that the bad tube from Sophia caused your transformer burnt. As my experienced with the Sophia in my WA6SE, it burnt out after 1 month in used luckly no spark, however, I was luck enough the amp still works after swapped another rectifier. There should have some more expertise in this forum would know what was happening with your amp might chim in. But I would suggest you drop Jack an email to report what was happening right the way since it should still under warranty both the amp and the Sophia 274B. Good luck, man.


----------



## mikemalter

I sent Jack an email this morning.  So I probably will not hear back until Monday sometime.
   
  I Wonder if it was the combination of the tubes that caused the problem.  If I was using all stock tubes, no problem, and even mixing the Sophia with stock tubes no problem.  But when I put in the Shuguang, with stock power tubes, that was when everything went south.
   
  So you think my transformer fried?
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Sorry to hear about your disaster, mike. I'm not expert but I suspect that the bad tube from Sophia caused your transformer burnt. As my experienced with the Sophia in my WA6SE, it burnt out after 1 month in used luckly no spark, however, I was luck enough the amp still works after swapped another rectifier. There should have some more expertise in this forum would know what was happening with your amp. But I would suggest you drop Jack an email to report what was happening right the way since it should still under warranty both the amp and the Sophia 274B. Good luck, man.


----------



## hodgjy

This was actually the first thought that entered my mind.  I've read several posts on here about their Sophias dying.  Of course internet forums have an elevated failure rate because no one chimes into say, "My widget works fine" but rather people chime into say, "My widget died."  However, I've seen enough posts to conclude that Sophia is having problems with certain batches of their rectifiers.  I don't think you caused the damage by rolling tubes.  Tube amps are designed to mix and match tubes.  I think the rectifier died on its own, and then sank the rest of the ship.  If the rectifier died, it would then be unable to convert the DC to AC, which would likely cause the transformer to fail.
   
  I'm no expert, but that seems like a logical conclusion.
   
  Good luck with everything.  It's all under warranty so it should be a painless fix, beyond being without your amp for a few days or weeks while it's being fixed.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So you think my transformer fried?


----------



## hodgjy

In an unrelated topic, can anyone tell me the difference between these two power tubes, beside the obvious difference in price and the different painted logo?
   
   

http://thetubestore.com/sed6as7g.html

   

http://thetubestore.com/russian6h13c.html

   

  I ordered the "Winged C" and received a tube without the "Winged C" logo.  Not that it matters sonically or for the few dollar difference, but I want to make sure I am getting what I paid for just out of principle.


----------



## hodgjy

Edit: the author of the posted article later posted a retraction saying the tubes were in fact direct replacements.
   
   
The more I read about this, the more I think it's possible that the tube combination may have lead to it all.
   
Your Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z tubes are not a direct replacement for the 6SN7 drive tubes. 
   
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html
   
  http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_pt2_e.html
  
Although, it is still completely possible the Sophia died on its own due to the high death rate reported here on the forums.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I Wonder if it was the combination of the tubes that caused the problem.  If I was using all stock tubes, no problem, and even mixing the Sophia with stock tubes no problem.  But when I put in the Shuguang, with stock power tubes, that was when everything went south.
> 
> So you think my transformer fried?


----------



## TheAudioDude

^ Actually, a rectifier converts AC to DC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Well, disaster has finally struck.  I was changing a pair of driver tubes, and my rectifier went up in a shower of sparks inside the tube as the filament burnt up.
> 
> I immediately turned off the amp, and now the amp will not work.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you checked the fuse?  I don't think it could have damaged the transformer, if the transformer was properly grounded.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Have you checked the fuse?  I don't think it could have damaged the transformer, if the transformer was properly grounded.


 

 The fuse probably blew which is located on the bottom IEC socket (externally accessible)  I'm sure you didn't blow out the power transformer. Just make sure you use the same value fuse.


----------



## hodgjy

You know, I knew that.  I guess I still haven't woken up this morning!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> ^ Actually, a rectifier converts AC to DC.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> The fuse probably blew which is located on the bottom IEC socket (externally accessible)  I'm sure you didn't blow out the
> power transformer. Just make sure you use the same value fuse.


 




  Dude, you look kind of like Beethoven in that picture... except for those ungodly-sized ears.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Dude, you look kind of like Beethoven in that picture... except for those ungodly-sized ears.


 

 My ears are big, aren't they, but I don't think I look anything like Beethoven.


----------



## atbglenn

Getting back to Mike's problem. Your rectifier shorted out possibly due to inserting a faulty or incompatible driver or output tube. The fuse more than likely blew because it's by far the weakest link (at least it should be) . The fuse should have done it's job in protecting your amp. Check the fuse! I'll bet it blown.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> This was actually the first thought that entered my mind.  I've read *several posts on here about their Sophias dying*.  Of course internet forums have an elevated failure rate because no one chimes into say, "My widget works fine" but rather people chime into say, "My widget died."  However, I've seen enough posts to conclude that Sophia is having problems with certain batches of their rectifiers.


 


 Agree, the bad QC of Sophia Electric.

  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Have you checked the fuse?  I don't think it could have damaged the transformer, if the transformer was properly grounded.


 
   
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> The fuse probably blew which is located on the bottom IEC socket (externally accessible)  I'm sure you didn't blow out the power transformer. Just make sure you use the same value fuse.


 

 Yeah buddies, sorry, I forgot there is a fuse at the back. Mike, you should check the fuse with a multimeter see if it's blew or not.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> The fuse probably blew which is located on the bottom IEC socket (externally accessible)  I'm sure you didn't blow out the power transformer. Just make sure you use the same value fuse.


 

 Here is a photo of the fuse.  Does it look blown to you?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Getting back to Mike's problem. Your rectifier shorted out possibly due to inserting a faulty or incompatible driver or output tube. The fuse more than likely blew because it's by far the weakest link (at least it should be) . The fuse should have done it's job in protecting your amp. Check the fuse! I'll bet it blown.


 

 So that is what happeded, last night was running the stock RCA 6080 power tubes because the Sylvania 7236 upgrade power tubes made the amp too loud.  At the same time I was also running stock GE 6SN7 driver tubes along with the upgraded Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B rectifier.  I was thinking, nice and decided that in the morning I would replace the stock drivers with the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z.
   
  So, I put in the Shuguang's and then BAM, the Sophia goes up.


----------



## dannie01

It looks like blew. Check with a multimeter if you have one or if you have a new fuse in similar rating or higher, put a new one in see whether the amp can turn on again or not.


----------



## hodgjy

Glad to hear it's probably going to be about a $1 fix.  Jack will most likely replace your Sophia if it's been under 30 days.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Here is a photo of the fuse.  Does it look blown to you?


----------



## atbglenn

Looks like a dead shorted fuse to me. Get yourself a cheap multimeter from Radio Shack. It's good to have around for situations like this. The fuse is a 3.15 amp, 250 volt slo blo, 5 X 20mm also available at Radio Shack
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Here is a photo of the fuse.  Does it look blown to you?


----------



## mikemalter

Thanks to everyone who helped my get back up again.
   
  I got to Radio Shack and got a packet of fuses.  I did not know there was a tight coupling on driver and rectifier tubes.
   
  Hopefully Jack will be willing to replace my Sophia as I am within my 1 month warranty on that tube if you count the day I took delivery vs. the day he shipped.
   
  Well, at least it was just a blown fuse and a dead tube, and not a totally banged up amp that does not work!
   
  Thanks again, everyone.


----------



## mikemalter

While I am starting on tube rolling (hopefully my next experience will be a little better than this one), can someone please tell me what effect each tubes has on audio?
   
  I mean what do power tubes, driver tubes and the rectifier each have on the sonic signature of the sound?  Does it work that way?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So that is what happeded, last night was running the stock RCA 6080 power tubes because the Sylvania 7236 upgrade power tubes made the amp too loud.  At the same time I was also running stock GE 6SN7 driver tubes along with the upgraded Sophia Princess Mess Plate 274B rectifier.  I was thinking, nice and decided that in the morning I would replace the stock drivers with the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z.
> 
> So, I put in the Shuguang's and then BAM, the Sophia goes up.


 

 I don't get it. The Sophia goes up because you put the Shuguangs in? Aren't they supposed to work together? Doesn't Jack sell them together? Woo amps, as I understand them, are designed to take a wide arrange of rectifiers and 6SN7s and power tubes. I wonder what other lethal combos exist. Seamaster put together an extensive list of replacements, etc. See: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/450276/got-my-paws-on-wa22-of-tube-possibility


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I don't get it. The Sophia goes up because you put the Shuguangs in? Aren't they supposed to work together? Doesn't Jack sell them together? Woo amps, as I understand them, are designed to take a wide arrange of rectifiers and 6SN7s and power tubes. I wonder what other lethal combos exist. Seamaster put together an extensive list of replacements, etc. See: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/450276/got-my-paws-on-wa22-of-tube-possibility


 

 Clayton,
   
  You ask a very good question, and after I get an answer from Jack, I'll report back here to let everyone know if the Shuguangs & Sophia & RCA 6080 are a lethal combination.
   
  Since I am behind a P600, I don't get power spikes or surges, so I think that I could rule power out of the equation.


----------



## takezo

it may suppose to work together, but if one of the combo is shorted it may lead to
  something like this. it's a good idea to have a tube tester with shorts indicator. and you
  don't need a $1K tester either. (and yes, shorts can occur anytime after you purchase
  them, so testing them regularly is a good idea.)


----------



## jc9394

Takezo, what tester you recommend? I'm looking for one and have no idea where to look.


 WA6 owners, you should try a NOS Mullard GZ34. I'm very surprise with it, it is very detail and musical but the soundstage is not as wide as Sophia and EML 274B/5U4G mesh.


----------



## dannie01

jc, which Mullard GZ34 you are using in the WA6? And a good one would cost over the Sophia 274B.


----------



## jc9394

I got the one exactly like this except according to the owner it has less than 50 hours on it for $100.


----------



## dannie01

It's a very nice one and $100 is also a very good price, too. I've been searching on Ebay for this tube but all of them would cost $150 or higher.


----------



## jc9394

Try a rebranded one, they usually go for less.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Takezo, what tester you recommend? I'm looking for one and have no idea where to look.
> 
> 
> WA6 owners, you should try a NOS Mullard GZ34. I'm very surprise with it, it is very detail and musical but the soundstage is not as wide as Sophia and EML 274B/5U4G mesh.


 

 it really depends on the condition of the unit, especially the meter, but anything in the $100 to $200 range
  is good enough for hobbyist. if you're a serious tube collector then a solid state tester like the B&K 747
  or the tube TV-7D/U is good. calibration is probably not as important. (even with calibration these tube tester
  are off by as much as 10 to 15%.) for the budget minded, the sencore, mercury or heathkit is good.
  but make sure the meter and needle is in fine working order. if the seller doesn't know, then avoid it.


----------



## jc9394

Thanks, does these tester test most tubes we use?


----------



## Clayton SF

So what you're saying is that had mikemalter one of these tube testers in the first place he would have then been able to test his Sophia and deduce that it was shorted out from the get-go and thus avoided blowing the fuse in his WA22.


----------



## dannie01

Hey Mike, how's your WA22 now? It back to works again by replacing a new fuse? Keep us up-date, hope resolved shortly without sending back to Jack for repair, good luck.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 
   
  The same thing happened to my WA22 on 12/13/09. I was a wreck thinking that I had to ship it back to Jack but as it turned out, atbglenn helped me right the fuse problem. atbglenn is the fuse man. He knows a lot about electronics. He used to solder for a living so he knows his stuff. Thanks atbglenn.




   
  It thought it funny that a $90 rectifier brought down my $2,000 amp and it took a $1 fuse to bring it back to life.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, does these tester test most tubes we use?


 

 it's a good idea to ask the seller if the tester can test the tubes you have in mind. if the seller
  knows what you're talking about, there's a good chance the tester was kept in reasonable good
  condition. if the seller has no idea, then the tester may be a piece of junk needing lots of
  attention. good luck.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So what you're saying is that had mikemalter one of these tube testers in the first place he would have then been able to test his Sophia and deduce that it was shorted out from the get-go and thus avoided blowing the fuse in his WA22.


 

 no, not necessarily. it may've been one of the other drive/power tubes that may be the culprit. the fuse
  is the last line of defense against burning out the transformer but it's a good idea to test each new tubes
  you purchase prior to running current thru them.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey Mike, how's your WA22 now? It back to works again by replacing a new fuse? Keep us up-date, hope resolved shortly without sending back to Jack for repair, good luck.


 


 The amp is up thanks to Clayton and atbglenn.  I replaced the fuse.
   
  The other thing is that I think that it is possible that a tube tester would not have made a difference in this instance because all of the tubes had been working prior.  I had two sets of tubes; stock, and the set of upgrades Jack recommends.  When I swapped them as a set, no problem.  When I first replaced my stock rectifier with the Sophia, all was good.  Then when I brought the Shugang's into the mix, that was when the Sophia blew.  But prior to that the tubes had been working fine if I did not mix and match between sets.
   
  So do you guys think it's still a bad tube issue or a mix and match issue?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

My personal opinion is it was just very coincidental timing of when the Sophia failed.  I don't think it was a mix and match problem.  I think Sophia is having some problems with their recent batches of tubes.  I also think most tubes fail on start up, just like your Sophia did.  I think your Sophia was going to fail yesterday, no matter what tubes you had inline with it.  It's number was just called and its time was up.
  
    
  Quote:


mikemalter said:


> So do you guys think it's still a bad tube issue or a mix and match issue?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





takezo said:


> no, not necessarily. it may've been one of the other drive/power tubes that may be the culprit. the fuse
> is the last line of defense against burning out the transformer but it's a good idea to test each new tubes
> you purchase prior to running current thru them.


 

 Yes, testing is a good idea. Better to weed out the bad ones before they can do any harm to your system. So does a fuse always prevent a bad tube from harming your amp? Is there ever a chance that a bad tube will harm your system even with a fuse installed?


----------



## dannie01

I don't think mix & match would cause any problem, it should be the quality of the Sophia like hodgjy stated. I have some power and driver tubes to roll with my WA22 without any problem but except the rectifier rolling because the EML still arrived yet since Jack shipped it on 27 May.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, testing is a good idea. Better to weed out the bad ones before they can do any harm to your system. So does a fuse always prevent a bad tube from harming your amp? Is there ever a chance that a bad tube will harm your system even with a fuse installed?


 

 the fuse will cut off any current to the sensitive parts, but there can always be some form of damage
  done to the more sensitive parts, like the caps, resistors, tubes, etc., before the fuse cuts. so, yes,
  there is always a chance.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, testing is a good idea. Better to weed out the bad ones before they can do any harm to your system. So does a fuse always prevent a bad tube from harming your amp? Is there ever a chance that a bad tube will harm your system even with a fuse installed?


 

 The main fuse protects the power transformer from shorted rectifiers, caps, and tube filaments.  If the plate on the output tube shorts, more than likely a resistor will burn, not the fuse.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> The main fuse protects the power transformer from shorted rectifiers and caps.  If the plate on the output tube shorts, more than likely a resistor will burn, not the fuse.


 






!!! If that happened would that mean the amp goes back to Jack?
  Or maybe you could fix it for me....


----------



## hodgjy

I took delivery of my Svetlana 6H13C power tube on Friday.  I gave it many a good hours this weekend letting it burn in and listening to it.
   
  Well, my conclusion is that it is an ok tube, but not the best for my style of listening.  It is a very warm tube.  It has sweet highs and mids.  It has decent bass extension.  However, it is too woolly and cramped just below the mids all the way to lows.  At times it even seems tubby.  Also, the soundstage is quite small and it is hard to pull apart instruments and voices, and also be able to place where they are on the stage.
   
  Perhaps it needs more time to burn in before it really shows its true colors.  But, it did help me make an important conclusion in my mind.  I previously was running a Sylvania 7236 power tube, and I had previously thought it sounded too solid-state for my liking.  But, after running the 6H13C, I actually prefer some level analytic presence.  I still like the smooth sounds tubes give you, but I definitely lean more towards the crisp side of things (approaching solid state) than on the woolly side of being warm.  Of all the tubes I currently own, the 7236 comes the closes to this.  I am looking for a tube that has the soundstage and separation the 7236 has, but perhaps with just a smidgen more warmth and life.
   
  Perhaps the 5998 power tube is the perfect compromise?  No wooliness.  Good warmth, but still has good separation and presence.  Does this describe the 5998?


----------



## mikemalter

Lucky for me it was just a filament.
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> The main fuse protects the power transformer from shorted rectifiers, caps, and tube filaments.  If the plate on the output tube shorts, more than likely a resistor will burn, not the fuse.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Dude, you look kind of like Beethoven in that picture... except for those ungodly-sized ears.


 

 You're right. atbglenn & Beethoven; separated at birth. Identical twins--except for maybe the ears. Are you sure those are his ears? Maybe he's wearing headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Glenn, you know I'm kidding, right? Glenn? Hello? Can you hear me? Now don't go blowing a fuse or anything. I'm j/k!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're right. atbglenn & Beethoven; separated at birth. Identical twins--except for maybe the ears. Are you sure those are his ears? Maybe he's wearing headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton, you crack me up  You're a regular jokester! Hey, my hangover's gone!! I think I'm going to lay off the booze for a couple of days


----------



## hodgjy

I might have to change my opinion of the 6H13C.  I put some more hours onto it today.  What was previously woolly and compressed suddenly opened up and is much better.  Good overall dynamics.  I guess it just needed to stretch its legs a little.  It's maturing into a decent tube.  I guess I'll have to see how things go before I jump to a haste conclusion and roll some more.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I took delivery of my Svetlana 6H13C power tube on Friday.  I gave it many a good hours this weekend letting it burn in and listening to it.
> 
> Well, my conclusion is that it is an ok tube, but not the best for my style of listening.  It is a very warm tube.  It has sweet highs and mids.  It has decent bass extension.  However, it is too woolly and cramped just below the mids all the way to lows.  At times it even seems tubby.  Also, the soundstage is quite small and it is hard to pull apart instruments and voices, and also be able to place where they are on the stage.
> 
> ...


----------



## sillysally

This is the fuse I use in both my WA6SE and my WA5LE you can get them from RadioShack, FAST-ACTION 2.5 Amp 250-Volt part number 270-1052.
  I had a fuse blow because I put my EML 274B solid plate in my WA6SE wrong, my cat had bumped the huge EML 274B and broke the center guild post off so when I took it out I matched up the printing on the tube to a EML274B mesh plate I have and put it back. Well the fuse blew so I got these fuses and also ask Jack about all this.
  In my case the fuse blew right away when I turned on the power, when I put the EML 274B solid back in the right way all was well no more blown fuse.
   
  Edited


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Here is the fuse you should have in any Woo you can get them from RadioShack, FAST-ACTION 2.5 Amp 250-Volt part number 270-1052.
> I had a fuse blow because I put my EML 274B solid plate in my WA6SE wrong, my cat had bumped the huge EML 274B and broke the center guild post off so when I took it out I matched up the printing on the tube to a EML274B mesh plate I have and put it back. Well the fuse blew so I got these fuses and also ask Jack about all this.
> In my case the fuse blew right away when I turned on the power, when I put the EML 274B solid back in the right way all was well no more blown fuse.


 
   
   Clayton's WA22 came with a 3.15 amp 250 volt Slow Blo. That's why I recommended the fuse to Mike.


----------



## sillysally

I asked jack what fuse to use in my WA6SE and WA5LE, he said yes its the same fuse and that is the one I listed.
  Maybe I miss understood him about all Woos but I think if in fact the WA22 takes a slow burn then you should check it out. Matter of fact I did first get the fuse you are talking about and yes it worked fine, but Jack said to get the Fast Burn 2.5 amps. This information should be in your owners manual.
  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Clayton's WA22 came with a 3.15 amp 250 volt Slow Blo. That's why I recommended the fuse to Mike.


----------



## atbglenn

I just checked my WA6 and it's got a 3 Amp, 250 volt Fast Blo in it. Go figure   BTW, my Woo never came with an Owners Manual. 
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I asked jack what fuse to use in my WA6SE and WA5LE, he said yes its the same fuse and that is the one I listed.
> Maybe I miss understood him about all Woos but I think if in fact the WA22 takes a slow burn then you should check it out. Matter of fact I did first get the fuse you are talking about and yes it worked fine, but Jack said to get the Fast Burn 2.5 amps. This information should be in your owners manual.


----------



## Clayton SF

This is an email exchange I had with Jack Wu after I had blown the fuse in my WA22 on Dec. 13, 2009:
   
  Jack,

 I tuned on my WA22 and after the blue light stopped blinking it blew the fuse and shut down. I replaced the fuse and turned on the amp again to HI and listened to my HD650. After 30 minutes I switched LO to used my K701 and it blew the fuse again. What is going on? I am running out of fuses. I am using stock tubes.

 I noticed the one in the WA22 is 250V / 3.15A. What kind of fuse should I use? Fast blow or slow blow?

 --------------------
  
  You can use a 3 to 4 amperes, slow blow fuse. Was the amp used in normal room temperature or in a cold room?
  
 Jack


----------



## sillysally

Well in my mind I would rather have a fast blow fuse than a slow blow. The fuses are cheap and I would rather replace a fuse than send back my 105 pound amp to Jack, or for that matter my WA6SE. And yes I do have all the boxes and crates that my Woos came in.
  The owners manual should have been sent by Jack with a Email attachment when he sent you shipping notification of your Amp.
  I got one for both my WA5LE and my WA6SE.
  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I just checked my WA6 and it's got a 3 Amp, 250 volt Fast Blo in it. Go figure   BTW, my Woo never came with an Owners Manual.


----------



## sillysally

> Well in my mind I would rather have a fast blow fuse than a slow blow. The fuses are cheap and I would rather replace a fuse than send back my 105 pound amp to Jack, or for that matter my WA6SE. And yes I do have all the boxes and crates that my Woos came in.
> The owners manual should have been sent by Jack with a Email attachment when he sent you shipping notification of your Amp.
> I got one for both my WA5LE and my WA6SE.
> 
> I should add that my EML274B solid plate is still in my WA6SE and I have never had any more fuses blow,


----------



## sillysally

I should add that I have never had anymore fuses blow and my EML274B solid plate is still in my WE6SE


----------



## sillysally

Sorry about these last posts, something is wrong.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Sorry about these last posts, something is wrong.


 

 Maybe head-fi blew a fuse


----------



## Clayton SF

Why a slow-blow fuse? Shouldn't a fuse blow "quick" (rather than "slow") to instantly protect an amp from shorts?


----------



## hodgjy

There is always natural variation in current and voltage.  The slow blow fuse is designed to let natural, temporary variations that may be harmless to the circuit get through.  It's designed to blow when something major goes through.  The fast blow is designed to blow when anything is too powerful comes up--even if it may be within the tolerance of the circuit.
   
  It's really an annoyance vs. protection question.  Do you want to replace a fuse every week on your expensive $10,000 piece of equipment, or do you want to take a little risk with your $100 kit? 
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Why a slow-blow fuse? Shouldn't a fuse blow "quick" (rather than "slow") to instantly protect an amp from shorts?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Why a slow-blow fuse? Shouldn't a fuse blow "quick" (rather than "slow") to instantly protect an amp from shorts?


 

 Clayton, A slow blo is more tolerant to short term overloads than a fast blo fuse. Both will blow instantly if there is a short present


----------



## Clayton SF

Congratulations on your 1500+ posts. Does that make you Ears Maximus Supremus? And your new avatar is getting younger again. It's the avatar of Dorian Grey perhpas?


----------



## atbglenn

Where is my Maximus Supremus thingamajig?? Maybe my ears disqualified me. I'll have to read the rules and regulations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Clayton, I look like Dorian Gray?? WOW man, thanks!


----------



## Clayton SF

_*Wrong *_Dorian Grey.
  This looks more like you, but with mustache.
   
  So have you figured out your posts-per-day average so far?
  And was your very first post about Woo Audio?
  And when did you buy your WA6?
  And what was your first non-stock rectifier?
  And what is your favorite combo on your WA6 at the moment?
   
  I sound like Barbara Walters (but certainly don't look like her!).


----------



## dannie01

Wonderful Glenn, Beethoven at first then Dorian Gray, just great.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So have you figured out your posts-per-day average so far?       What is this, Math class?
> And was your very first post about Woo Audio?                         Probably totally unrelated like most of my posts
> And when did you buy your WA6?                                            1969
> And what was your first non-stock rectifier?                              Whats a Rectifier?
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

You crack me up, Glenn. You're a regular jokester!!!
  And I'd take that Peppered Steak Combo off of your GZ34 lest you blow a fuse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  "I sound like Barbara Walters (but certainly don't look like her!  Ummmmm..  )."     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
Okay, maybe I look more like Connie Chung.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You crack me up, Glenn. You're a regular jokester!!!


 

 Where did I hear that before? lol!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Wonderful Glenn, Beethoven at first then Dorian Gray, just great.


 

 The wonderful world of my life lol!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Glenn, please don't tell me you were in Stryper in the 80s... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  I kid, I kid.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On another note, I have something horrible to tell you guys.  I don't know quite how to say this, but I'll come out with it...
   
  I think I'm getting bored with my WA22.  It just doesn't seem to have that magical sound it used to have.  Maybe I need to roll more tubes?  I've actually thought about selling it... but I know all of you would shun me forever, so perhaps that isn't the route to take.  Any suggestions?  Anyone else have a D7000 and WA22?  Opinions?  Help?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Glenn, please don't tell me you were in Stryper in the 80s...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think looking at pictures of Glenn these past posts has made your hearing loopy. That's why you're bored with your WA22. Looking at wonky Glenn--
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




--yep, that's done it.
   
  Say it ain't so. But really, if you left the Woo in the dust you would never be shunned--at least not by me. Once you've owned a Woo....


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think looking at pictures of Glenn these past posts has made your hearing loopy. That's why you're bored with your WA22. Looking at wonky Glenn--
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well that's good to know!  But what if I said the phrase 'solid-state'? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Before I make any decisions I may regret, I'll tube roll some more and see what I can come up with.  I'll look for some 6SN7s and maybe a different pair of 6F8Gs.
   
  On second thought, maybe I just need a new pair of headphones.  I've been very intrigued by the Beyer T1s, but I could never spend >$1000 on headphones.  I'll have to attend a Head-Fi meet one of these days and try out some other equipment.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Well that's good to know!  But what if I said the phrase 'solid-state'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Solid-state is good. I own an SPL Auditor and I love it as much as my WA22. And there's no tube rolling involved. But, if you get bored of its sound signature, you cant change it--unless of course you're into rolling headphones. They coexist quite well in my auditory world. When I get tired of one, I switch to the other.


----------



## TheAudioDude

One day I'll seriously get into different gear, but that's a good idea to have a solid-state amp as well.  Right now my top priority is saving money for a new place to live, but looking at new gear is a great way to pass the time!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Back on topic, what 6SN7s are a good pairing for the WA22?


----------



## hodgjy

I've read in several places that the Brimar England 1950s-1970s are highly recommended tubes.
  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Back on topic, what 6SN7s are a good pairing for the WA22?


----------



## che15

What do you guys think? I have a MF V-can driving my HD-650 and i enjoy the sound, but you know how this goes, always looking for better sound. I have a couple of options.
  1. Get the V-psu power supply for the V-can, it is supposed to improve the sound a lot and the price is 250 nad i could get a ps audio power cable for 60.
  2. I had placed an order for LD MKIII , but I canceled due to delays on shipping. I could get that again and just wait.
  3. I could get the WA3 , which I am sure is a better amp , but it would cost me almost twice than my other 2 options.
  I would appreciate any suggestions.
  Thanks in advance


----------



## hodgjy

Well, seeing as you're in the Woo forum, you'll probably get mostly pro-Woo responses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But, I made I first leap to a good amp with a Woo 3.  It's been awesome.  No complaints whatsoever.  It's a bargain for what you get.  I previously was using the Maverick D1, which cost $200.  The Woo at 2.5x that is so much better--makes the Maverick look and feel and sound like a cheap toy.  Money well spent.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





che15 said:


> What do you guys think? I have a MF V-can driving my HD-650 and i enjoy the sound, but you know how this goes, always looking for better sound. I have a couple of options.
> 1. Get the V-psu power supply for the V-can, it is supposed to improve the sound a lot and the price is 250 nad i could get a ps audio power cable for 60.
> 2. I had placed an order for LD MKIII , but I canceled due to delays on shipping. I could get that again and just wait.
> 3. I could get the WA3 , which I am sure is a better amp , but it would cost me almost twice than my other 2 options.
> ...


 
  We all know that the "always looking for better sound" will always exist. So why not, for monetary reasons, take the next step up and get the V-psu. I am sure there will be a marked improvement over your current sound stage for you to enjoy for a few until the urge arrives again for another step up to the "better sound" plate. In other words: enhance what your already have (and are already familiar with).


----------



## mikemalter

I got an email from Jack today, and he says that he will contact Sophia, "again," about batch quality.
   
  He said that the Sophia, Shuguang and RCA 6080 are compatible, and I can send him back the blown Sophia and he will replace it for me.
   
  So, all in all, not bad.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> On second thought, maybe I just need a new pair of headphones.  I've been very intrigued by the Beyer T1s, but I could never spend >$1000 on headphones.  I'll have to attend a Head-Fi meet one of these days and try out some other equipment.


 

 If I were in your shoes I would consider other headphones first.  Sometimes it only takes a subtle change in sonic signature to renew your listening interest, and the wrong headphones can really disconnect you from the entire experience too (something I know firsthand sadly). 
   
  I think anybody who has the opportunity to directly compare SS and tube just "knows" which is right for them.  I have one of each sitting right next to each other on this desk, but the SS amp has not been used for any real listening since I got my Woo.  I spent some time just last week A/Bing between the two.  In quite a few ways the SS amp is better, especially given the tubes I am using in the WA6 right now which are nothing special at the moment.  But something just seems off, not in what I am hearing but in the way I am hearing or maybe perceiving it that takes all the life out of the music.  That, and some bizzare harshness in the treble region which makes my K701s basically unusable on the SS amp.  This is actually why I bought the WA6 in the first place, to escape this unsatisfying sound.
   
  The feeling of not being satisfied is frustrating though, so I definitely can understand.  Right now I'm trying to banish sibilance from my system and am not having much luck.  The WA6 throws just as much of it at me as I heard before and it is getting in the way of my enjoyment.  At some point I think a person just has to take the time to live with the same gear for a while even if not completely satisfied instead of constantly changing things.  You eventually find new ways of enjoying it that can sometimes make a new purchase unnecessary.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Well that's good to know!  But what if I said the phrase 'solid-state'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just a thought but, maybe try some other tubes as well....I am not a huge fan of 6SN7..With an adapter I like the 2C51/396A /5670 Family..I would say they are a little more robust..easy to find and cheaper than the 6SN7s..I have several 6F8G sets and none are more than ordinary,,I can't find the tungsol to give that one a try..If you can find a set Chatham Electronics 2399 buy them.. my favorite rectifier,,so far..Emmission labs 5U4G...Good luck.
   
  I also have a Singlepower Balanced Extreme and a Balancing act ""on the way""..We all get bored..


----------



## atbglenn

If I was, I wouldn't admit it 
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Glenn, please don't tell me you were in Stryper in the 80s...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> One day I'll seriously get into different gear, but that's a good idea to have a solid-state amp as well.  Right now my top priority is saving money for a new place to live, but looking at new gear is a great way to pass the time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I take it you're not running your WA22 in the balanced mode. Why don't you try it that way? You'll have to change the cables on your headphones and get a balanced source. I think it might be worth a try.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If I were in your shoes I would consider other headphones first.  Sometimes it only takes a subtle change in sonic signature to renew your listening interest, and the wrong headphones can really disconnect you from the entire experience too (something I know firsthand sadly).
> 
> I think anybody who has the opportunity to directly compare SS and tube just "knows" which is right for them.  I have one of each sitting right next to each other on this desk, but the SS amp has not been used for any real listening since I got my Woo.  I spent some time just last week A/Bing between the two.  In quite a few ways the SS amp is better, especially given the tubes I am using in the WA6 right now which are nothing special at the moment.  But something just seems off, not in what I am hearing but in the way I am hearing or maybe perceiving it that takes all the life out of the music.  That, and some bizzare harshness in the treble region which makes my K701s basically unusable on the SS amp.  This is actually why I bought the WA6 in the first place, to escape this unsatisfying sound.
> 
> The feeling of not being satisfied is frustrating though, so I definitely can understand.  Right now I'm trying to banish sibilance from my system and am not having much luck.  The WA6 throws just as much of it at me as I heard before and it is getting in the way of my enjoyment.  At some point I think a person just has to take the time to live with the same gear for a while even if not completely satisfied instead of constantly changing things.  You eventually find new ways of enjoying it that can sometimes make a new purchase unnecessary.


 

 Added sibilance is from your DAC, a NOS DAC will solve that problem very easy. When i got my WA6SE i was blown away by it compared to my Corda Opera at that time, sold the Opera but sibilance still a little remained, changed the DAC with a NOS one with an tube output stage and voila! problem solved. Sounds very natural and real to me and not a hint of sibilance.
  PS: the DAC is MHDT Havana with a WE 396A tube.
  Tubes all the way baby!


----------



## flaming_june

Would appreciate it if someone can help me on something.  Today I booted up my WA6 and all of a sudden, only the right earphone works.  The left earphone has very very low volume.  Has that happen to anyone before and why is it happening?

 Cheers


----------



## Denys

Are you sure your headphone jack is completely entered ???
   
  Happened to me once....
   
  Denys


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Would appreciate it if someone can help me on something.  Today I booted up my WA6 and all of a sudden, only the right earphone works.  The left earphone has very very low volume.  Has that happen to anyone before and why is it happening?
> 
> Cheers


 

 It happened to me, but in my system with speakers.  Something blew in one of the drivers in my left speaker and its volume was very low but the right speaker was ok.  I had to put in another pair of speakers because using them resulted in clipping in my amp.  So, check your phones and make sure that the left earphone is ok.  Do you have something else you can plug your phones into?  I'd be very careful with your amp until you get this resolved.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Would appreciate it if someone can help me on something.  Today I booted up my WA6 and all of a sudden, only the right earphone works.  The left earphone has very very low volume.  Has that happen to anyone before and why is it happening?
> 
> Cheers


 

 Did you try to swap the output tubes it the problem follows?


----------



## flaming_june

Check jack, checked phones, everything is fine.  There's just very low volume from the left ear only when connected to the amp.  But I don't have other equipment to troubleshoot where the problem is coming from..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Just a thought but, maybe try some other tubes as well....I am not a huge fan of 6SN7..With an adapter I like the 2C51/396A /5670 Family..I would say they are a little more robust..easy to find and cheaper than the 6SN7s..I have several 6F8G sets and none are more than ordinary,,I can't find the tungsol to give that one a try..If you can find a set Chatham Electronics 2399 buy them.. my favorite rectifier,,so far..Emmission labs 5U4G...Good luck.
> 
> I also have a Singlepower Balanced Extreme and a Balancing act ""on the way""..We all get bored..


 
  I too have the EML 5U4G mesh and am loving it. I am on the May run for Zana Deux SE; I get bored too. By the way, when do you think your BA will arrive? I think it's part of the same run as my ZDSE.


----------



## jc9394

you may done it already, swapping the RCA input?


----------



## flaming_june

Yeah I tried the rca cables.  I'll have to troubleshoot some more.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


flaming_june said:


> Yeah I tried the rca cables.  I'll have to troubleshoot some more.


 
   
  Did you try to swap the driver/power tubes from left to right?


----------



## BIG POPPA

seems like bad tube, easy fix?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Would appreciate it if someone can help me on something.  Today I booted up my WA6 and all of a sudden, only the right earphone works.  The left earphone has very very low volume.  Has that happen to anyone before and why is it happening?
> 
> Cheers


 

 Sounds like a bad driver/output tube. Like others have said, swap the two tubes. If the problem travels, it's a bad tube. If not, try swapping the source cables. If that fixes it, either your source is bad, or your cables are.


----------



## flaming_june

Good calls.
   
  Changed tube placement from right to left again, and problem went away.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The feeling of not being satisfied is frustrating though, so I definitely can understand.  Right now I'm trying to banish sibilance from my system and am not having much luck.  The WA6 throws just as much of it at me as I heard before and it is getting in the way of my enjoyment.  At some point I think a person just has to take the time to live with the same gear for a while even if not completely satisfied instead of constantly changing things.  You eventually find new ways of enjoying it that can sometimes make a new purchase unnecessary.


 

 I also feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with sibilance.  I actually think I have it under control very well; part of my problem may be that I'm listening to my music too loudly.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I downloaded a parametric EQ for foobar, and I EQ'd around 7.6kHz down roughly 6.6-7dB, and it has helped quite a bit with certain music.

  
  Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Just a thought but, maybe try some other tubes as well....I am not a huge fan of 6SN7..With an adapter I like the 2C51/396A /5670 Family..I would say they are a little more robust..easy to find and cheaper than the 6SN7s..I have several 6F8G sets and none are more than ordinary,,I can't find the tungsol to give that one a try..If you can find a set Chatham Electronics 2399 buy them.. my favorite rectifier,,so far..Emmission labs 5U4G...Good luck.
> 
> I also have a Singlepower Balanced Extreme and a Balancing act ""on the way""..We all get bored..


 

 Yeah, I have a pair of NU and TS 6F8Gs, but I never use the Tung-Sols because they pick up noise/vibrations like crazy.  I tap on my chassis and it's loud as hell in my ears.  With my NUs, I could probably drive a jackhammer through my floor and it would be dead-silent (except for the fact that I'm jackhammering my floor...).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I take it you're not running your WA22 in the balanced mode. Why don't you try it that way? You'll have to change the cables on your headphones and get a balanced source. I think it might be worth a try.


 

 I actually am running it in balanced mode.  It's balanced from my DLIII all the way through to my headphones.  The change in going from single-ended to balanced wasn't HUGE, but it was noticeable. 
   
  I think I'll keep looking for tube upgrades for the time being, then look into other headphones for music (the D7000s are excellent for movies and gaming, though).  I'll have to check out what markmaxxx suggested.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





darku said:


> Added sibilance is from your DAC, a NOS DAC will solve that problem very easy. When i got my WA6SE i was blown away by it compared to my Corda Opera at that time, sold the Opera but sibilance still a little remained, changed the DAC with a NOS one with an tube output stage and voila! problem solved. Sounds very natural and real to me and not a hint of sibilance.
> PS: the DAC is MHDT Havana with a WE 396A tube.
> Tubes all the way baby!


 

 Mmmm, more money.  My current DAC was more expensive than the WA6 so I hesitate to consider replacing it with something even further up the food chain.  I really need to get a different pair of headphones actually, the same thing I suggested to TheAudioDude.  If I EQ the upper mid bump out the sibilance is completely gone, but introducing the EQ to the signal at all makes everything sound out of focus which is not an acceptable compromise.  So finding a headphone without this response hump should fix the issue, such as the HD650.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I also feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with sibilance.  I actually think I have it under control very well; part of my problem may be that I'm listening to my music too loudly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I wish I could listen to music with the EQ on, but I can tell it is taking something away from the clarity and it bothers me too much.  A mere -1dB drop at 3Khz and a -3dB drop at 6Khz actually smooths out the K701 quite nicely without disrupting tonal balance, but something about the whole sound seems off when the EQ on so I can't live with it.


----------



## jc9394

flaming_june said:


> Good calls.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 May be dirty connectors, you may want to clean them...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> May be dirty connectors, you may want to clean them...


 

 X2     If swapping tubes corrects the problem, you'll need to remove oxidation from your tube pins


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am on the May run for Zana Deux SE; I get bored too. By the way, when do you think your BA will arrive? I think it's part of the same run as my ZDSE.


 

 Soon, I got a e mail from Craig that said a couple of weeks, 2 weeks ago so anytime now.. Craig hasn't asked for the final payment yet,,so maybe next week?


----------



## sillysally

For folks with 701s the sibilance is just part of what the 701s do if you have a neutral system like a Woo. imo the last thing you want to do is colorize the tone.
   
  I checked out different balanced amps by different makers and my conclusions, there is no reason to get a balanced amp over a single end amp plus all the expense of balanced components.
   
  What I asked myself was do I just want to keep buying amps and nos or used tubes or do I want to find the holly grail of audio reproduction once and for all.
   
  imo the introduction of the HD-800s was the key factor for me not having to go to a high-end SAX system. Because I use my headphone gear for both music and BD movies, I needed something that would give me the illusion of out of head surround audio (360) with the slam that a sub gives you along with all micro details. And of course a sound stage and all the tonal quality's that are needed for music. imo I have found the holly grail for my needs with my WA5LE, tubes, headphones, cords, power supply and of-course my source player a Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition. My setup is simple, source player->amp->headphones all within 1M of each other including my power supply.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yes, I realized long ago the K701 was not really right for me.  There are some things it does so very well, such as soundstage, that I hate to give up though.  The only headphones that offer a bigger soundstage cost much more.  I've basically decided to get an HD650 and split duties between the two.  I'd love to have a Beyer T1, but it is just too expensive right now and the well known 8Khz response peak also worries me some.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I also feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with sibilance.  I actually think I have it under control very well; part of my problem may be that I'm listening to my music too loudly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What are you doing for power?  Is it coming out directly out of the wall, or are you filtering?
   
  I have the same stuff as you down to the DAC and I am not getting any sibiliance that I am noticing.


----------



## che15

Hello guys , I ended up buying a used 2008 made WA 6 with upgraded driver tubes. I have a ? For u guys. In the future I will upgrade to the Sophia for sure, but would it be worth for me to send the amp to get the power supply that is standard in the new ones . I think it is the psps.
 Thanks


----------



## Superfrag

PDPS.  . I think the Sophia would be a better upgrade, but mine came with the PDPS, so I've not heard one without.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





superfrag said:


> PDPS.  . I think the Sophia would be a better upgrade, but mine came with the PDPS, so I've not heard one without.


 

 From what I've read, the PDPS make a BIGGER difference than a Sophia Princess. I remember being thrilled upgrading my stock WA6 to the PDPS a couple of years ago. The difference was significant from what I remember. Since I don't own the Sophia, I can't comment on how it sounds compared to others.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What are you doing for power?  Is it coming out directly out of the wall, or are you filtering?
> 
> I have the same stuff as you down to the DAC and I am not getting any sibiliance that I am noticing.


 

 I'm not really doing anything for power; I have my WA22 and DAC plugged into a regular $10 surge protector.  I was thinking about picking up the Belkin PureAV PF30, since it seems like a steal at $65.
   
  In response to Xcalibur, the parametric EQ doesn't really bother me much.  I did play around with foobar's default EQ, and I also didn't like the change in sound.  Sure, I could remove sibilance, but I was also losing a tiny bit of detail and it didn't seem right.  But this parametric EQ is great; I don't feel like I'm missing anything at all and the sound has improved.  I even removed the parametric EQ to see what the difference was like, and man, it sounds very strange with everything at neutral.
   
  There's a thread somewhere around here on how to properly EQ your system, and I quickly followed the steps to find where the sibilance was occurring.  If I come across it again I'll send you a link.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Perhaps there are other ways to approach EQ than what I've tried.  I may have to give it a more extensive attempt in the future, though it will do nothing for me while listening from the CD player.


----------



## flaming_june

Lol, oh man.  The problem with only right earphone working is back.  Guess I'll try cleaning the tube ends with some alcohol.  This is so annoying.


----------



## jc9394

Any Woo owners have LCD-2?  What Woo amp you pair with it and are you happy with Woo amping LCD-2?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I'm not really doing anything for power; I have my WA22 and DAC plugged into a regular $10 surge protector.  I was thinking about picking up the Belkin PureAV PF30, since it seems like a steal at $65.
> 
> In response to Xcalibur, the parametric EQ doesn't really bother me much.  I did play around with foobar's default EQ, and I also didn't like the change in sound.  Sure, I could remove sibilance, but I was also losing a tiny bit of detail and it didn't seem right.  But this parametric EQ is great; I don't feel like I'm missing anything at all and the sound has improved.  I even removed the parametric EQ to see what the difference was like, and man, it sounds very strange with everything at neutral.
> 
> There's a thread somewhere around here on how to properly EQ your system, and I quickly followed the steps to find where the sibilance was occurring.  If I come across it again I'll send you a link.


 

  
  AudioDude,  take a look at the Humbuster III or The Duet at PS Audio.  From my perspective, the cleaner the power, the better the audio.  Just a thought.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Lol, oh man.  The problem with only right earphone working is back.  Guess I'll try cleaning the tube ends with some alcohol.  This is so annoying.


 
   
  You can clean your tube pins with very fine steel wool. When you're finished, use 90% isopropyl alcohol to take off any remaining oxidation. Make sure there are no steel wool fibers that can possibly cause a short circuit left on the pins..


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'll briefly add that the steel wool takes a lot of patience, especially cleaning the tube afterward.  I personally like to clean the pins with Deoxit after the wool to break up stubborn oxidation, then a final cleaning with alcohol.


----------



## hodgjy

I clean up steel wool mess off of stuff (although haven't done it on a tube yet, but it should work) with a magnet.  Two seconds and no more steel particles.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'll briefly add that the steel wool takes a lot of patience, especially cleaning the tube afterward.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Use a pencil eraser, you'll be surprise how effective it is. Clean with Isopropyl alcohol 90% + afterward.


----------



## hodgjy

+1.  Neat trick I learned reading the threads here.  Cleaned up one badly oxidized pin.
  
  Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> Use a pencil eraser, you'll be surprise how effective it is. Clean with Isopropyl alcohol 90% + afterward.


----------



## Xcalibur255

This doesn't work for drive tubes though, does it?  Pretty much any eraser would be too thick to fit between the narrowly spaced pins I would think.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> Use a pencil eraser, you'll be surprise how effective it is. Clean with Isopropyl alcohol 90% + afterward.


 

 That's so MacGyver: a pencil eraser. That way you don't run the risk of blowing your fuse, yourself, your neighborhood, or your amp to kingdom come. And I don't have to spend a lot of $$$ on high-tech formulated fluids--just a one-stop solution at my desk. Thanks Red_Devil_24.


----------



## che15

Hello again! Any other comments about upgrading to a PDPS?


----------



## BIG POPPA

For some reason I thought the PDPS was standard with the WA6 and WA 6SE?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> For some reason I thought the PDPS was standard with the WA6 and WA 6SE?


 

 It's been standard on the SE model since it's inception. It became standard on the regular 6 about 5 months ago.


----------



## flaming_june

It really depends if I want to listen to a french canadian or not XD


----------



## DoingOK

I added some Absorb-Gel adapters to make sure the tubes are above the wood trim.  Work great.


----------



## atbglenn

Looks great! what tubes are you using?
  
  Quote: 





doingok said:


> I added some Absorb-Gel adapters to make sure the tubes are above the wood trim.  Work great.


----------



## DoingOK

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Looks great! what tubes are you using?
> 
> Those are Sylvania 6FD7's in there for burn in.  I have a set of RCA 6DE7's to try also.


----------



## atbglenn

DoingOK, I must be brain dead. I own a pair of Sylvania 6FD7's. I didn't recognize them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They look fatter in your picture


----------



## DoingOK

You live in Long Island......you are excused


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> DoingOK, I must be brain dead. I own a pair of Sylvania 6FD7's. I didn't recognize them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  Quote: 





doingok said:


> You live in Long Island......you are excused


 

 You're a real pal! Thanks!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> DoingOK, I must be brain dead. I own a pair of Sylvania 6FD7's. I didn't recognize them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And Glenn, DoingOK's amp is a Woo Audio 6 in case you couldn't tell.
   
  And by the way, your front yard looks incredible with those new plants. Don't forget to wash your hands before turning on your WA6.


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> It really depends if I want to listen to a french canadian or not XD


 


 Too bad for you if you don't.


----------



## che15

My question is Which of the 3 upgrades will give me better sound. The Sophia , the caps or the pdps. And do I have to change something in the amp to hook the Sophia ?


----------



## jc9394

che15 said:


> My question is Which of the 3 upgrades will give me better sound. The Sophia , the caps or the pdps. And do I have to change something in the amp to hook the Sophia ?







 Pdps Give you best bang for buck, it is standard now unless you buy used. No, you don't need anything for Sophia.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And Glenn, DoingOK's amp is a Woo Audio 6 in case you couldn't tell.
> 
> And by the way, your front yard looks incredible with those new plants. Don't forget to wash your hands before turning on your WA6.


 

 Thanks Clayton buddy. All along I was thinking it was a Zana Deux 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The yard is looking sweet, ain't it?


----------



## che15

Thanks friend , I did buy one used, and I want to know how to make sound better. There are no external power supplies that could be used with the WA6 are there? I will problably get all the upgrades in the future.


----------



## che15

Has anyone heard about the custom rubber fits for the WA 6 made by Woo themselves. And I have another ? Is it normal that I have to turn the volume all the way up to the 4 o'clock position to get decent volume with my HD-650 with Cardas cable?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Thanks friend , I did buy one used, and I want to know how to make sound better. There are no external power supplies that could be used with the WA6 are there? I will problably get all the upgrades in the future.


 

 The PDPS mod will make it sound better, as will better caps. Tube rolling makes a big difference as well. The WA6 had a built in power supply with means you can't use an external one without extensive modifications. Totally not worth it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Has anyone heard about the custom rubber fits for the WA 6 made by Woo themselves. And I have another ? Is it normal that I have to turn the volume all the way up to the 4 o'clock position to get decent volume with my HD-650 with Cardas cable?


 

 Is the impedance switch on the back set to the low position?  If so changing it to the high impedance setting will help a lot.  Even with 6DE7 tubes you shouldn't need that much volume unless you really like to rock out.  A high Mu tube like the 6FD7 or 6DR7 would increase the gain so you could lower the volume as well.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Has anyone heard about the custom rubber fits for the WA 6 made by Woo themselves. And I have another ? Is it normal that I have to turn the volume all the way up to the 4 o'clock position to get decent volume with my HD-650 with Cardas cable?


 

 You mean custom feet right? Yes Woo makes custom aluminium feet with silicon rubber inserts.
   
  What source are you using? Mine is loud between 11 and 1 depending on the type of music I'm playing using a CD player. Your source is probably low in output, that is why you're turning your volume control so high.


----------



## che15

I am using a Sony cd player, and the the amp is set to 600 ohms and it is still very low in volume. It also has upgraded driver tubes I think they 6FD7 bottle. Any other reason why the volume would be so low. I used the same set up with my V-can and it was twice as loud.
 Thanks guys for you knowledge and willingness to share it.


----------



## sillysally

I tried out my 701's with my WA5LE, and I must say I have a lot more respect for the 701's. The over all tonal quality of the 701's is much better then when I tried them out with my WA6SE with Silvana 6EW7's BB and a Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B that I was using when I tried out the 701's. 
  I am not getting the ear fatigue anymore that I got with my WA6SE. Bass has good impact, mids are very nice, highs are good. the sibilance is mostly gone, sound-stage is good horizontal (R/L).
  No they are no substitute for the HD-800's but I paid more for the HD800 Cardas cable than I paid for my 701's, so yes the 701's imo are a good value.
   
  When I get around to it I will try out the 701's in my WA6SE with my nos RCA 6EW7's BB circa 1963 and my nos EML 274B solid plate using the rest of my rig I use with my WA5LE.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I tried out my 701's with my WA5LE, and I must say I have a lot more respect for the 701's. The over all tonal quality of the 701's is much better then when I tried them out with my WA6SE with Silvana 6EW7's BB and a Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B that I was using when I tried out the 701's.
> I am not getting the ear fatigue anymore that I got with my WA6SE. Bass has good impact, mids are very nice, highs are good. the sibilance is mostly gone, sound-stage is good vertical (R/L).
> No they are no substitute for the HD-800's but I paid more for the HD800 Cardas cable than I paid for my 701's, so yes the 701's imo are a good value.
> 
> When I get around to it I will try out the 701's in my WA6SE with my nos RCA 6EW7's BB circa 1963 and my nos EML 274B solid plate using the rest of my rig I use with my WA5LE.


 


 What I understand is that HD800's could not be replaced by the K701's for the detail but what differences would you notice with A/B the two especially from your WA5LE


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





kunalraiker said:


> What I understand is that HD800's could not be replaced by the K701's for the detail but what differences would you notice with A/B the two especially from your WA5LE


 
  Sound-Stage, the 701's have more of a two dimensional sound-stage (horizontal) where the hd800's are much more three dimensional (surround sound) and bigger.
  Better sonic range.
  More impact, not only for the lows but mids and highs also.
  Better separation, better use of the sound-stage for placement.
  Better timber.
  More realistic.
  Extended lows and highs and better mids.
  And I am sure I am missing a few things here.
   
  The bottom line is that you do need a higher end amp and rig to really get the most out of the HD-800's.
   
  At the Chicago meet Jack used a pair of 701's for the WA5LE imo that was a big mistake unless he was trying to not show a big difference between the WA22 (he used HD800's) and the WA5. From what Jack told me the WA5/LE is a very time consuming amp to build plus a lot more costly.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> The bottom line is that you do need a higher end amp and rig to really get the most out of the HD-800's.


 

 I would definitely agree with that statement, what I say to other members is if youdon't plan or already have a $2000.00 amp and a hi-end DAC, don't bother getting a $1000.00 headphone and expect miracles, as you will be dissapointed.
   
  Coming back to your gear, would you say the extra $1500.00 over the WA6SE was worth the sound improvement you heard, also did you get any upgrades done.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





kunalraiker said:


> I would definitely agree with that statement, what I say to other members is if youdon't plan or already have a $2000.00 amp and a hi-end DAC, don't bother getting a $1000.00 headphone and expect miracles, as you will be dissapointed.
> 
> Coming back to your gear, would you say the extra $1500.00 over the WA6SE was worth the sound improvement you heard, also did you get any upgrades done.


 
  Well my WA6SE is maxxed, however my WA5LE is also maxxed plus I had Jack use a Alps RK50 pot. The biggest diffidence is in the tubes. The cost of the tubes in the WA6SE are about $300 but because the WA5LE is a 300B amp and uses a pair of rectifier's, drive and power tubes there is a big difference in the cost. Plus the fact that I went high end on the tubes for the WA5LE, nos WE300B's (date code 5626), nos TS CTL 6SN7GT round plates (August 1942) and a pair of EML 5U4G new design. So the cost difference is much greater with the WA5LE.
   
  In audiophile terms yes it sure is, but if you are just playing MP3's or the like then there is no point to justify the expense.
  Also I do not use a external DAC and never have. My source player runs directly to my amp via interconnect cables (1M) and also my power cords to my amp's psu and source player is 1M long.
  I use my amp for both CD/SACD/DVD-A and BD movies, the nice thing about using this amp for movies is that not only can I tell for sure if the audio positioning is correct but also the audio itself. Car door slams, gun shoot, music instruments ect. My Oppo BD83-SE Nuforce Edition is not only a great DAC for dedicated two channel stereo analog but its down-mix capability's are the best I have ever heard if you amp and headphones can pick up the micro details as my can..
   
  Congrats on your 2000 post.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'd love to be able to afford the best, but making do with what I actually can afford has been more frustrating than rewarding given my apparently keen ear for harshness and detail.  I think the plan is going to be to get an HD650 and put the K701 aside for all but the things it does best.  It's not like it is unlistenable but the sibilance and midrange glare are distracting and prevent immersion into the music most of the time.  Only well recorded material sounds great, but I think it is reasonable to be able to enjoy ALL of my music without feeling like I'm being punished for listening to half of it.
   
  I'm still hoping the EML 274B Mesh addresses this.  The RCA Blackplate tubes (which I must note I am not using, which is part of why I'm so unhappy with the sound right now) produce the best high end I've heard from the amp by far so the added refinement of the EML might get me where I want to be without needing to make further changes.  Admittedly I don't really have any nice rectifiers so I'm not passing final judgement on what the WA6 can do.  The 5R4GY is a great tube for the price it sells at, with fast deep bass and a great soundstage with good note separation..... but the top end is not terribly refined which is certainly contributing to the problems I'm having.  The only rectifier I have which seems to have good top end control is the TungSol 5V4G, but the bass and soundstage of that tube are pathetic so I only really roll it in for novelty.
   
  Haha, I need to just find $250 and get that EML tube.  I'm sure nobody wants to hear me gripe about my audio frustrations and I'd much rather talk about enjoying the music than being unable to.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'd love to be able to afford the best, but making do with what I actually can afford has been more frustrating than rewarding given my apparently keen ear for harshness and detail.  I think the plan is going to be to get an HD650 and put the K701 aside for all but the things it does best.  It's not like it is unlistenable but the sibilance and midrange glare are distracting and prevent immersion into the music most of the time.  Only well recorded material sounds great, but I think it is reasonable to be able to enjoy ALL of my music without feeling like I'm being punished for listening to half of it.
> 
> I'm still hoping the EML 274B Mesh addresses this.  The RCA Blackplate tubes (which I must note I am not using, which is part of why I'm so unhappy with the sound right now) produce the best high end I've heard from the amp by far so the added refinement of the EML might get me where I want to be without needing to make further changes.  Admittedly I don't really have any nice rectifiers so I'm not passing final judgement on what the WA6 can do.  The 5R4GY is a great tube for the price it sells at, with fast deep bass and a great soundstage with good note separation..... but the top end is not terribly refined which is certainly contributing to the problems I'm having.  The only rectifier I have which seems to have good top end control is the TungSol 5V4G, but the bass and soundstage of that tube are pathetic so I only really roll it in for novelty.
> 
> Haha, I need to just find $250 and get that EML tube.  I'm sure nobody wants to hear me gripe about my audio frustrations and I'd much rather talk about enjoying the music than being unable to.


 
   
  I think the RCA tubes with a EML 5U4G mesh will probably give you the best over all presentation for what you want.
  The only draw back with the RCA drive/power tubes is that you may not have as big a sound-stage.
  And using the HD-650 is a good move but once more you will not get the sound-stage of the 701's.
   
  The one thing that I have learned with my LD IVSE and my WA6SE is that there is always going to be give and take. But in the end it is just a matter of what you get use to and one thing is for sure you will have a better rig than most folks will have.
   
  imo the bottom line with audio is be happy with what you have, even if you go all out you will still get use to it and appreciate it about as much as you appreciate the amp you have now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> And using the HD-650 is a good move but once more you will not get the sound-stage of the 701's.


 

 This has always been the sticking point.  But I'm realizing, if I'm not enjoying it anyway it is all moot.  The black plate RCAs throw a huge soundstage, bigger than even the other 6FD7s so I have some extra to trade for use with the HD650 if I decide to go that way.  
   
  I may also go the route Groundzero did and try running 6SN7s with adapters, but I want to hear what the blackplate RCAs can do with the EML first.


----------



## dannie01

Beside the famous EML/Sophia's rectifiers for Woo 6, Woo 6SE, WA 22, WA 5 and WA 5LE. I have some finding on internet that the Mullard GZ37 should be one of the direct replacement for 5U4G and looks very sturdy, they have normal Mullard Shiels logo and Military CV378, both in ST shape and in-expensive compare with EML. I'm curious how it sounds with Woo's amp. Does anyone try the Mullards and can share the impressions?
   
  Below the pics I copied from Ebay.


----------



## flaming_june

While searching yesteday I actually found some comparisons between eml sophia and mullard.  But to tell you the truth I understood nothing from it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A quick look at ebay prices shows them going for well north of $100.  This is why I basically gave up on NOS rectifiers, because the good ones go for the same price as a Sophia and there is wide consensus that the Sophia sounds better than most of them.  I must admit I am curious about the famous Mullard sound nevertheless.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> While searching yesteday I actually found some comparisons between eml sophia and mullard.  But to tell you the truth I understood nothing from it.


 

 Thanks, the related discussion thread found, for anyone interested, HERE is the link.


  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A quick look at ebay prices shows them going for well north of $100.  This is why I basically gave up on NOS rectifiers, because the good ones go for the same price as a Sophia and there is wide consensus that the Sophia sounds better than most of them.  I must admit I am curious about the famous Mullard sound nevertheless.


 
   
   
  I'm not sure the Sophia and EML would sound better than Mullard for the price on Ebay, seem worth a try. I bought a lot 5U4G type rectifiers last year for the WA6SE and they have different presentation in sound, and yes, love the Sophia most. But I did not know the GZ37 at that moment.


----------



## jc9394

I never tried a GZ37 but I found NOS Mullard GZ34 is actually better than Sophia and EML 274B mesh with rock and hip hop with HD6xx but Sophia is still my flavor on jazz and classical with HD800.


----------



## dannie01

I think the Mullard GZ37 will on hold in the moment because..............
   
  After almost a month of long travelling, the EML 5U4G arrived finally today, what a giant compare with the Mullard GZ30 which was plugged in the WA22 before the EML reach. It looks very sturdy, the sound...................so far only with +6hrs of burn in, it outperform the GZ30 alomost in every aspect except the Mullard with a little harder punch in bass. The soundstage and 3D is noticeable improved, more lush detail, texture and silky smoothy highs, it might be the combo with GEC 6080 and Birmar CV 1988. There are sometimes sound sibilance and little fatigue in mids/ vocal with the Mullard but tamed a lot by the EML. I have a pair of GEC 6AS7 and Tong Sol CLT 6SN7GT black glass, round plate on the way, should be arrived next week, I'll have more fun of tubes rolling. Cheers
   
  The combo of EML 5U4G, GEC 6080 and Brimar CV 1988, sorry about the crappy picture quality.


----------



## jc9394

Nice Dannie, would love to get your WA22 soon...


----------



## dannie01

Soon, very soon man.


----------



## SpudHarris

Well I finally gave in and bought a WA6 from fellow Head-fier 'DannagE'. Being delivered on Sunday 
   
  Comes with:
  WooAudio6 in black:
 PDPS circuit upgrade:
 Sophia Princess 274B:
 Matched pair 6DE7:
   
  I know it's early days but I already have a 'thing' for rolling Opamps and just know that I'm going to spend loads on tubes. Are the above tube going to be a good combo for the 600ohm DT880's?
   
  Is there a generic (not too expensive) 'Top Notch'  tube combination or will the above keep me happy? Source for now will be lossless tunes via a 240gb super iMod.


----------



## musicman59

I have been a SS guy most of Hi-Fi life with the exception of a quick tour through the tubes world with a pair of Sonic Frontiers Power 3 monoblocks and Line 2 pre-amp. My 5 years in Head-fi have been restricted to SS only with a natural progression to a top of the line balanced amplifier.
  After my listening at CanJam i finally gave in into tubes and I am jointing the Woo Audio family soon. I am placing an order with Jack for a WA5-LE with the following configuration:
  Black finish.
  Parts Upgrade.
  Teflon sockets.
  EML 300B Mesh
  Treasure CV181
  EML 5U4G Mesh
  WBT Nextgen RCA upgrade
  Neotech OCC copper wire. 
   
  It will take about 3 weeks in production but based on what I heard at CanJam is worth the wait. Now I wil l have 2 top notch amplifiers with different flavors to play with.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Well I finally gave in and bought a WA6 from fellow Head-fier 'DannagE'. Being delivered on Sunday
> 
> Comes with:
> WooAudio6 in black:
> ...


 

 For rectifiers, you have it.  The Sophia is very well regarded and better than many NOS tubes.  Drive tubes will take a bit of experimentation on your part, but the 6DE7 is the right starting point.  If you find yourself wishing for a smoother sound and bigger soundstage try a 6EW7, and if you want a punchy sound with a bigger soundstage try the 6FD7.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I think the Mullard GZ37 will on hold in the moment because..............
> 
> After almost a month of long travelling, the EML 5U4G arrived finally today, what a giant compare with the Mullard GZ30 which was plugged in the WA22 before the EML reach. It looks very sturdy, the sound...................so far only with +6hrs of burn in, it outperform the GZ30 alomost in every aspect except the Mullard with a little harder punch in bass. The soundstage and 3D is noticeable improved, more lush detail, texture and silky smoothy highs, it might be the combo with GEC 6080 and Birmar CV 1988. There are sometimes sound sibilance and little fatigue in mids/ vocal with the Mullard but tamed a lot by the EML. I have a pair of GEC 6AS7 and Tong Sol CLT 6SN7GT black glass, round plate on the way, should be arrived next week, I'll have more fun of tubes rolling. Cheers
> 
> The combo of EML 5U4G, GEC 6080 and Brimar CV 1988, sorry about the crappy picture quality.


 
  Glad you like the EML, now when your TS 6SN7GT's come you should have some really nice bass with a lot of impact.
  Tip, always handle your TS from the black bass not the glass even when you insert or remove them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Remember once John runs out of these you will have a heck of a time getting a new pair like the ones you are getting.
   
  Your going to find out about going high end and what a very nice difference that will make.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks for the tip ss. Actually, the TS 6SN7GT arrived few weeks before theEML but unfortunately, one base of the TS was found cracked, John guessed that was caused by the extreme tempreture in the plane's cargo. And he is kind enough to offer by replace a new pair, the cracked pair is now on it;s way home but yet arrived. Then John is offering me to sned a new pair yesterday before he has the returned pair because he don't want to keep me for the long wait. What a great service and nice gentleman.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> For rectifiers, you have it.  The Sophia is very well regarded and better than many NOS tubes.  Drive tubes will take a bit of experimentation on your part, but the 6DE7 is the right starting point.  If you find yourself wishing for a smoother sound and bigger soundstage try a 6EW7, and if you want a punchy sound with a bigger soundstage try the 6FD7.


 

 Many thanks Xcalibur255 - I think I'll get used to it in it's form as is and then experiment with the tubes you mention.
   
  Again, thanks....


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have been a SS guy most of Hi-Fi life with the exception of a quick tour through the tubes world with a pair of Sonic Frontiers Power 3 monoblocks and Line 2 pre-amp. My 5 years in Head-fi have been restricted to SS only with a natural progression to a top of the line balanced amplifier.
> After my listening at CanJam i finally gave in into tubes and I am jointing the Woo Audio family soon. I am placing an order with Jack for a WA5-LE with the following configuration:
> Black finish.
> Parts Upgrade.
> ...


 
  Congratulations!! You will love it to death! I'm so dreaming about one of theese too


----------



## hodgjy

+1.  He's been great to me as well.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> What a great service and nice gentleman.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have been a SS guy most of Hi-Fi life with the exception of a quick tour through the tubes world with a pair of Sonic Frontiers Power 3 monoblocks and Line 2 pre-amp. My 5 years in Head-fi have been restricted to SS only with a natural progression to a top of the line balanced amplifier.
> After my listening at CanJam i finally gave in into tubes and I am jointing the Woo Audio family soon. I am placing an order with Jack for a WA5-LE with the following configuration:
> Black finish.
> Parts Upgrade.
> ...


 
  You will love it.
   
  One sugestion is not to get the Treasure CV181's. I also got them when I got my WA5LE but after about 350 hours of use I got a matched pair of brand new nos CTL TS 6SN7GT round plates circa 08/1942. These tubes blow away the CV181's in every aspect. At the time I had a pair of Treasure 300B's running, I have also swapped them out in favor of a pair of brand new nos matched  WE 300B's circa 26th week of 1956. The only tubes I didn't change was my EML 5U4G mesh plates.
  Also I think going with the parts upgrade is a smart move, you may want to talk to Jack about getting a Alps RK50 pot.
   
  In any case I am sure you will love your new Woo.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> One sugestion is not to get the Treasure CV181's. I also got them when I got my WA5LE but after about 350 hours of use I got a matched pair of brand new nos CTL TS 6SN7GT round plates circa 08/1942. These tubes blow away the CV181's in every aspect.


 


 Wow, lucky me. Thanks for the input, ss. I was wondering to get a pair of the Treasure CV 181 but I don't think I need them anymore. Now I'm more eager to have my TS 6SN7s replacement from John.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Wow, lucky me. Thanks for the input, ss. I was wondering to get a pair of the Treasure CV 181 but I don't think I need them anymore. Now I'm more eager to have my TS 6SN7s replacement from John.


 
  You should be eager if they do for your WA22 what they do for my WA5LE.
  Also keep in mind there is a break-in with the tubes your getting from John, because they are real NOS.


----------



## dannie01

I've experienced for their sound with some hrs in WA22 before return to John. Sounds great even without break-in. Waiting is painful.


----------



## musicman59

sillysally and dannie01,
  I am new  in this tubes thing. Can you tell me who this John is and how to contact him for tubes?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> sillysally and dannie01,
> I am new  in this tubes thing. Can you tell me who this John is and how to contact him for tubes?


 

 PM sent.


----------



## StevieDvd

Another me too post!
   
  Have just received a Woo Audio 6 (standard model just a red led mod) bought used from dfkt here.
   
  Not intending to go overboard with options/tubes for now. It has the stock 6DE7, the Sovtek rectifier and Philips/Mullard GZ34 .
   
  With my preference for a nice wide soundstage, can the above be improved on much without physically modding this Woo?
   
  Steve


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

steviedvd said:


> Another me too post!
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 I've found the Philips/Mullard GZ34 to have a smaller more forward and less wide soundstage than the Sovtek, but the Sophia Princess 274b is by far the best one without needing to mod the WA6 further. The upgraded caps only improve transparency, but the Pseudo Dual Power Supply mod will also improve the sounstage and separation (although never to the amount you'll get from a WA22).


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I've found the Philips/Mullard GZ34 to have a smaller more forward and less wide soundstage than the Sovtek, but the Sophia Princess 274b is by far the best one without needing to mod the WA6 further. The upgraded caps only improve transparency, but the Pseudo Dual Power Supply mod will also improve the sounstage and separation (although never to the amount you'll get from a WA22).


 
   
  Good  to hear, although I've only had a brief listen with Mullard & Sovtek I did sense the soundstage a little wider with the Sovtek, albeit with slightly less detail.
   
  Will give the Sophia  try.
   
  Steve


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sophia or EML 274B is definitely the way to go for a big soundstage.  The 6DE7 drive tubes also have the smallest soundstage of that family of tubes, so give 6FD7 and 6EW7 a try.  Either has a noticeably different and larger soundstage presentation.


----------



## che15

Hello guys, I purchased a used WA6 for 500$ , it does not have the pdps . What do you guys think should I upgrade the power supply and buy the Sophia or sell the amp for something close to what I paid and buy the WA6se or the WA2? 
 Thanks for your tougths.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Sophia or EML 274B is definitely the way to go for a big soundstage.  The 6DE7 drive tubes also have the smallest soundstage of that family of tubes, so give 6FD7 and 6EW7 a try.  Either has a noticeably different and larger soundstage presentation.


 
   
  I already have a matched pair of 6DE7's so are these worth a look?


----------



## musicman59

Anybody using the Tung Sol VT99 or a 6F8G tubes with adapters instead of the 6SN7 tubes in the WA5-LE?


----------



## SpudHarris

I've just ordered 2 pairs of 6EW7's, I only wanted one pair but because of one seller being unresponsive I ordered a pair from elsewhere and ended up with 4 in total.
   
  One pair are RCA Fat Bottle with top getter (what ever that means) and the other pair (I've seen mentioned here) are Sylvania Fat Bottles. The reason I'm posting is I wanted to know if there will be any noticable difference in sound?
   
  Also is there anything as good as the Sophia Rectifier?
   
  I'm new to tubes so please go easy on me


----------



## jc9394

I can't tell the difference between brands of same type.  As far as the rectifier, try to get you hands on the EML 5U4G.  To me that is the best overall rectifier I tried.   Give the NOS Mullard GZ34 a try, it has better bass extension than the Sophia but smaller soundstage.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thank you jc9394  I will do some searching.
   
  Won't hurt to have a few spare tubes I suppose. After all I intend to keep the WA6 for some time....


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I've just ordered 2 pairs of 6EW7's, I only wanted one pair but because of one seller being unresponsive I ordered a pair from elsewhere and ended up with 4 in total.
> 
> One pair are RCA Fat Bottle with top getter (what ever that means) and the other pair (I've seen mentioned here) are Sylvania Fat Bottles. The reason I'm posting is I wanted to know if there will be any noticable difference in sound?
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you want to sell on a pair drop me a PM. 
   
  Did you not get the Sophia with the amp? I've got the mullard gz34 but want a little more soundstage and have ordered a Golden Dragon 274b (cheap) for now before I commit to getting the Sophia!


----------



## SpudHarris

I won't commit to selling a pair yet as one pair is coming from USA & the other Canada so I'll wait and see that they get here in one piece first.
   
  Yeah the Sophia came with the amp but gonna get a GZ34 to play with....


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I won't commit to selling a pair yet as one pair is coming from USA & the other Canada so I'll wait and see that they get here in one piece first.
> 
> Yeah the Sophia came with the amp but gonna get a GZ34 to play with....


 


 OK when you have both pairs drop me a PM I'll probably still be interested. Where in the UK are you by the way, near London at all?
   
  Steve


----------



## SpudHarris

No worries.......
   
  Let us know what you think of that Golden Dragon 274b though. I've looked up the Mullard GZ34 and they are not much less £ than the Sophia so I would expect good things from it. I'm quite happy with the WA6 at the moment so will probably hold back on the GZ34 for a while unless anyone can convince me it's a must have now...
   
  I'm not near London although I do get down as far as Welwyn periodically as one of my bouyant accounts is based there. I'm based in Stourport (near Kidderminster).


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> No worries.......
> 
> Let us know what you think of that Golden Dragon 274b though. I've looked up the Mullard GZ34 and they are not much less £ than the Sophia so I would expect good things from it. I'm quite happy with the WA6 at the moment so will probably hold back on the GZ34 for a while unless anyone can convince me it's a must have now...
> 
> I'm not near London although I do get down as far as Welwyn periodically as one of my bouyant accounts is based there. I'm based in Stourport (near Kidderminster).


 
   
  Will let you know about the Golden Dragon, it was a UK seller so hope to get it by the weekend. Welwyn - not to far from me (Stevenage).


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I've just ordered 2 pairs of 6EW7's, I only wanted one pair but because of one seller being unresponsive I ordered a pair from elsewhere and ended up with 4 in total.
> 
> One pair are RCA Fat Bottle with top getter (what ever that means) and the other pair (I've seen mentioned here) are Sylvania Fat Bottles. The reason I'm posting is I wanted to know if there will be any noticable difference in sound?
> 
> ...


 
  Getter; silvery coat of pure barium metal deposited on the inside of a tube.
   
  The RCA tubes should give a better bass responts and overall better tone plus a little better 2D sound stage.
  The Sylvania should give you a wider (L,R) sound stage.
   
  ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> Will let you know about the Golden Dragon, it was a UK seller so hope to get it by the weekend. Welwyn - not to far from me (Stevenage).


 
  Verify the ratings on that golden dragon tube before you use it.  Some of the chinese 274B tubes pull 4.0 amps and the WA6 and WA6SE transformer can only handle a max of 3.0 amps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I've just ordered 2 pairs of 6EW7's, I only wanted one pair but because of one seller being unresponsive I ordered a pair from elsewhere and ended up with 4 in total.
> 
> One pair are RCA Fat Bottle with top getter (what ever that means) and the other pair (I've seen mentioned here) are Sylvania Fat Bottles. The reason I'm posting is I wanted to know if there will be any noticable difference in sound?
> 
> ...


 

 I think you are doing the right thing as is.  Each person hears differently so the best way to find the tubes that suite you are to try a few and find out from personal experience.  I can give you general impressions, as can others, but we each have our own differing opinions.  You've chosen two good tubes to start with.  The Sylvania is going to have more energy on the top end...... more "sparkle" in the treble and probably a leaner sounding bass.  The RCAs have a slightly thicker and more lush sound, especially in the midrange.  It's all about finding the "flavor" you prefer so to speak.  Give them both time to break in (10 hours minimum before making comparisons between the two) and let yourself get used to the sound of each one.  What headphones you are using matters a LOT here too.  I avoid Sylvania tubes personally, not because they are bad, but because I use AKG headphones and the combination results in too much treble energy.  Many people like the Sylvania with Sennheiser and Denon cans, OTOH. 
   
  If you can afford it, go for the Sophia or the EML rectifier.  It improves every aspect of the sound, like taking a general step up in performance all around.  Regardless of which drive tubes you use upgrading to a better rectifier has benefits.  I personally have found that the rectifier impacts soundstage, PRAT (pacing, rhythm and timing), and bass speed/impact a lot.  Rectifiers also seem to have the biggest influence on resolution and inner detail.  It doesn't seem to swing the tonal balance by a large amount.  The power/drive tubes influence tone a lot and can add or subtract a considerable amount of bass/mid/treble depending upon the type and brand of tube.  They also can affect PRAT and bass, but not to as large an extent as the rectifier.  They also affect soundstage less, though they still do somewhat and I've found the "character" of the sounstage changes a lot with different power tubes.  Like spatial perception of width vs height for example or how much perceivable space each instrument or note is given.  Attack and decay is heavily influenced by power tubes too, more so than the rectifier IMO.  Keep in mind these are only MY personal opinions.  You may hear something else entirely.  
   
  Lastly, I suggest trying out a 6FD7 tube as well.  Whichever of your 6EW7s you like better, RCA or Sylvania, give that same brand a try in the 6FD7 so you can see the differences that tube makes.  I really like the 6FD7 sound myself, so long as you get a good one.  The older the tube the better, they tend to be more refined and have a more even tonal balance.
   
  I wouldn't worry a lot at this point about some of the jargon.  Mention of silver on top of your RCA tube, for example, means the "getter" is on the top of the tube.  This is part of how a tube is made, and the reason buyers pay attention to it is because it can identify the vintage of the tube.  Some designs and vintages perform better than others.  This is why you hear things like silver top or clear top mentioned in a tube description, and you'll pick up on what this stuff means over time as you read more.  One important distinction is "fat bottle" vs "thin" or "tall" bottle.  A fat bottle version of the same type of tube will sound different.  I like fat bottles over thin bottles where it is applicable personally.  Some tubes were only made in one type, the 6DE7 for example is only thin bottle.  The 6EW7 and 6FD7 were made in both.
   
  Just enjoy the music and have fun with it most importantly.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think you are doing the right thing as is.  Each person hears differently so the best way to find the tubes that suite you are to try a few and find out from personal experience.  I can give you general impressions, as can others, but we each have our own differing opinions.  You've chosen two good tubes to start with.  The Sylvania is going to have more energy on the top end...... more "sparkle" in the treble and probably a leaner sounding bass.  The RCAs have a slightly thicker and more lush sound, especially in the midrange.  It's all about finding the "flavor" you prefer so to speak.  Give them both time to break in (10 hours minimum before making comparisons between the two) and let yourself get used to the sound of each one.  What headphones you are using matters a LOT here too.  I avoid Sylvania tubes personally, not because they are bad, but because I use AKG headphones and the combination results in too much treble energy.  Many people like the Sylvania with Sennheiser and Denon cans, OTOH.
> 
> If you can afford it, go for the Sophia or the EML rectifier.  It improves every aspect of the sound, like taking a general step up in performance all around.  Regardless of which drive tubes you use upgrading to a better rectifier has benefits.  I personally have found that the rectifier impacts soundstage, PRAT (pacing, rhythm and timing), and bass speed/impact a lot.  Rectifiers also seem to have the biggest influence on resolution and inner detail.  It doesn't seem to swing the tonal balance by a large amount.  The power/drive tubes influence tone a lot and can add or subtract a considerable amount of bass/mid/treble depending upon the type and brand of tube.  They also can affect PRAT and bass, but not to as large an extent as the rectifier.  They also affect soundstage less, though they still do somewhat and I've found the "character" of the sounstage changes a lot with different power tubes.  Like spatial perception of width vs height for example or how much perceivable space each instrument or note is given.  Attack and decay is heavily influenced by power tubes too, more so than the rectifier IMO.  Keep in mind these are only MY personal opinions.  You may hear something else entirely.
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, *Xcalibur255*. Those are the finest 5 paragraphs of useful and insightful information for the uninitiated like me (in the world of sonic impressions) that I have ever read since the initial purchase of my first headphone amplifier about 10 months ago. Thank you very much. You have given me the confidences to trust in what I hear and not be influenced (too much) by what other people may be interpreting in their world of sound. Guidance is good.


----------



## SpudHarris

X2
   
  Thank you so much* Xcalibur255 *
   
  Because of your comment about the 6DE7 only coming in thin tubes I went and checked my tubes because they are fat and it turns out I have been listening with 6FD7's since the amp arrived (DannagE installed these at my house when he delivered it). This is great because I have 6DE7's here also and the 4 x 6EW7's on route.
   
  I'm using mainly HD600's which sound just perfect. That said, I bought the WA6 to pair with my 600ohm DT880's but I'm enjoying the HD600's more. Tried my Denon D2000's and wasn't keen.
   
  So in closing I guess I will soon be in a position to find a flavour suited to my tastes in music and my phones, I'm in no rush though because as it stands the WA6 with the Sophia and 6FD7's is well mated to the HD600's and it may well be I've found my favourite already 
   
  Thanks SillySally also for the Getter info - Every day is a school day !


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks for the compliments guys.  Glad to hear I make some sense every once in a while.  
   
  One of the neat thing about the drive tubes is you can adapt the amp to provide synergy with different headphones.  If the DT880s aren't sounding best right now a change of tubes could likely change that.  I've found the tubes can alter the sound that much, though it depends a lot on how you listen and how sensitive you are to certain details.  Each set of ears is different after all.  It does take a bit of spending, but if you try several brands among several tube types you can get a good picture of what is possible for this amp.
   
  It looks as though I overlooked the fact that you already had a Sophia tube SpudHarris.  Sorry about that.  Many Woo owners feel the rectifier journey ends so to speak with the Sophia or EML 274B (and more recently the EML 5U4G Mesh too) so I think you can be confident on that side of things.  In a lot of cases with the best tubes one isn't really 'better' so much as just different, but it takes a lot of money to find out with the best NOS rectifiers costing what they do.


----------



## drapoel

Hi all,
   
  I am a newcomer here.. I have a question. Can you upgrade your WA6 standard to WA6 SE? Or you should sell it first then buy the SE version.
   
  I am still confused buying the standard version or go directly to SE version. Many thanks for your answer.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





drapoel said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am a newcomer here.. I have a question. Can you upgrade your WA6 standard to WA6 SE? Or you should sell it first then buy the SE version.
> 
> I am still confused buying the standard version or go directly to SE version. Many thanks for your answer.


 
  You would have to buy the SE because you can not upgrade the WA6 to the WA6SE.
  If you want to upgrade and have the funds skip the SE and go for the WA5LE.


----------



## drapoel

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> You would have to buy the SE because you can not upgrade the WA6 to the WA6SE.
> If you want to upgrade and have the funds skip the SE and go for the WA5LE.


 

 Hi sillysally,
   
  Thanks for your precious answer.. Wow WA5LE is pretty pretty expensive, it's around $2500, but WA5LE is so beautiful. Ok maybe i will take the SE version+Sophia Princess.
   
  Once again, thanks for the answer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  *arrgghh this hobby is really really expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





drapoel said:


> Hi sillysally,
> 
> Thanks for your precious answer.. Wow WA5LE is pretty pretty expensive, it's around $2500, but WA5LE is so beautiful. Ok maybe i will take the SE version+Sophia Princess.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Skip the Princess and get the EML 5U4G mesh, Jack has them.
  Yes it can get pretty expensive but done right you can rival the tone quality of a 5 times more expensive speaker system.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  btw I do have a WA6SE maxxed and a WA5LE maxxed+++


----------



## mikemalter

Xcalibur255, thanks for this post.  I am also new to tubes and was wondering what kind of tube did what.  This was very helpful.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think you are doing the right thing as is.  Each person hears differently so the best way to find the tubes that suite you are to try a few and find out from personal experience.  I can give you general impressions, as can others, but we each have our own differing opinions.  You've chosen two good tubes to start with.  The Sylvania is going to have more energy on the top end...... more "sparkle" in the treble and probably a leaner sounding bass.  The RCAs have a slightly thicker and more lush sound, especially in the midrange.  It's all about finding the "flavor" you prefer so to speak.  Give them both time to break in (10 hours minimum before making comparisons between the two) and let yourself get used to the sound of each one.  What headphones you are using matters a LOT here too.  I avoid Sylvania tubes personally, not because they are bad, but because I use AKG headphones and the combination results in too much treble energy.  Many people like the Sylvania with Sennheiser and Denon cans, OTOH.
> 
> If you can afford it, go for the Sophia or the EML rectifier.  It improves every aspect of the sound, like taking a general step up in performance all around.  Regardless of which drive tubes you use upgrading to a better rectifier has benefits.  I personally have found that the rectifier impacts soundstage, PRAT (pacing, rhythm and timing), and bass speed/impact a lot.  Rectifiers also seem to have the biggest influence on resolution and inner detail.  It doesn't seem to swing the tonal balance by a large amount.  The power/drive tubes influence tone a lot and can add or subtract a considerable amount of bass/mid/treble depending upon the type and brand of tube.  They also can affect PRAT and bass, but not to as large an extent as the rectifier.  They also affect soundstage less, though they still do somewhat and I've found the "character" of the sounstage changes a lot with different power tubes.  Like spatial perception of width vs height for example or how much perceivable space each instrument or note is given.  Attack and decay is heavily influenced by power tubes too, more so than the rectifier IMO.  Keep in mind these are only MY personal opinions.  You may hear something else entirely.
> 
> ...


----------



## jax

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Skip the Princess and get the EML 5U4G mesh, Jack has them.
> Yes it can get pretty expensive but done right you can rival the tone quality of a 5 times more expensive speaker system.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'll second the recommendation of the EML over the Sophia.  I didn't like the Sophia much at all - it tended to soften out dynamics and resolution to my ears.  The EML mesh is a great combo with the WA6SEM.
   
  I guess I haven't "done it right" as suggested by SillySally.  I most certainly have never heard the WA6SEM come even close to rivaling my speakers.  I'm not sure what you mean by "tone quality" though, but I prefer listening to speakers by a long shot.  Cans I've used with the WA6SEM to form that opinion: HD800 (Currently), Grado GS1000 and HF2, W5000, K702, HD600, HD650, HE5.  Perhaps I just have not found the right combination, but as good as the WA6SEM is, and it is a damn fine amp, I have never heard it sounding as good as my speaker rig.  My speakers render far greater tonal accuracy and are far more engaging than virtually any headphone rig I've ever listened to (quite a few, though not as many as some here).  Speaker and headphone listening are simply entirely different experiences in my opinion...headphones will never be able to replicate listening to well-implemented speaker system.  I've said it before...the comparison is apples to oranges; the experience is entirely different. Just my .02 cents.  Regardless, high marks to the WA6SEM - it' a great amp.  Another one on your short list in the Woo line should be the WA22.


----------



## mikemalter

My Sophia Princeess blew and Jack is going to replace it.  However I am wondering with the opinion here is of the Emission Lab 5U4G mesh plate rectifier vs. the Sophia?  It's a good opportunity to make a swap.  Would the Sophia or Emission Lab be more expensive?
   
  I don't have much knowledge of either, but I did experience the Sophia as somehow softer that the stock rectifier when comparing them.
   
  I'm also concerned about Sophia build quality as I have been reading about people blowing their tubes more than any other.
  
  Quote: 





jax said:


> I'll second the recommendation of the EML over the Sophia.  I didn't like the Sophia much at all - it tended to soften out dynamics and resolution to my ears.  The EML mesh is a great combo with the WA6SEM.
> 
> I guess I haven't "done it right" as suggested by SillySally.  I most certainly have never heard the WA6SEM come even close to rivaling my speakers.  I'm not sure what you mean by "tone quality" though, but I prefer listening to speakers by a long shot.  Cans I've used with the WA6SEM to form that opinion: HD800 (Currently), Grado GS1000 and HF2, W5000, K702, HD600, HD650, HE5.  Perhaps I just have not found the right combination, but as good as the WA6SEM is, and it is a damn fine amp, I have never heard it sounding as good as my speaker rig.  My speakers render far greater tonal accuracy and are far more engaging than virtually any headphone rig I've ever listened to (quite a few, though not as many as some here).  Speaker and headphone listening are simply entirely different experiences in my opinion...headphones will never be able to replicate listening to well-implemented speaker system.  I've said it before...the comparison is apples to oranges; the experience is entirely different. Just my .02 cents.  Regardless, high marks to the WA6SEM - it' a great amp.  Another one on your short list in the Woo line should be the WA22.


----------



## jax

I don't know about Sophia's tube quality or longevity as I only had mine for about a month.  I got it used so it was burned-in.  The sound quality is what turned me off.  Though it was nice on vocals, which is what I think others might be referring to as "lush", I found that it made the presentation overall a bit soft and slow, for lack of a better way to describe it.  The low end also seemed a bit compromised, especially in comparison to the EML.  That along with the comments I've already made, are what made me sell it after only a month. 
   
  The EML is more expensive.  It is larger (taller) and made from thicker glass in my estimation.  They are a bit more difficult at times to source because they are made in small batches for import, so supply can be spotty.  I do believe Jack does sell them.  The regional distributor is George Lenz who can be reached at info@tubesusa.com where you can also buy them.  The EML tube is not strictly a 5U4G drop-in replacement in the one single detail that it does not want to see voltages of more than 5V - Jack assured me that his amps do comply with that, and I've been using one in my WA6SEm.  If you do use it in a component that is likely to fluctuate much above 5V at the rectifier stage you may see a shorter lifespan from the EML.  I believe this is documented in their white papers, though not positive. 
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> My Sophia Princeess blew and Jack is going to replace it.  However I am wondering with the opinion here is of the Emission Lab 5U4G mesh plate rectifier vs. the Sophia?  It's a good opportunity to make a swap.  Would the Sophia or Emission Lab be more expensive?
> 
> I don't have much knowledge of either, but I did experience the Sophia as somehow softer that the stock rectifier when comparing them.
> 
> I'm also concerned about Sophia build quality as I have been reading about people blowing their tubes more than any other.


----------



## drapoel

Well guys, actually i have some confusions:
   
  1. Is it worthy to spend around $200 to buy EML 5U4G mesh plate instead to buy NOS tubes?
   
  2. How much the cost of WA6 SE Maxxed? And (again) is it worthy to upgrade WA6 SE to its MAXXED version instead to buy another amp with balanced I/O like Little Dot MK VIII SE/WA22/WA5LE?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





drapoel said:


> Well guys, actually i have some confusions:
> 
> 1. Is it worthy to spend around $200 to buy EML 5U4G mesh plate instead to buy NOS tubes?
> 
> ...


 
   
  1. It really depends upon what circuit you are putting it in.  As I said, it works brilliantly in the Woo.  The other application it is remarkable in, in my direct and extensive experience, is in the Modwright Transporter's analog output stage.  It is the best option I've found for that stage.  There is an very long thread on tube rolling in that particular component on the Audiocircle site.  The consensus there is that the only rectifiers that compete with the EML are the High Wycombe version of the GZ37 tube (NOS Mullard - about $250-300), and some folks like the the metal base 5AR4 tube which I think are highly overpriced due to their scarcity.  I have much more limited experience rolling tubes in the WA6SEM. Seamaster started a thread a while back on tube rolling in the WA22 that includes input on which rectifiers worked well for some folks there.  Ultimately whether it is worth it is really up to the user - whether you can hear the difference, and if so, how much is it worth to you. 
   
  2. I believe the WA6SE with all the options Jack offers, would come to just under $2k.  I've only heard the WA22 after it had been modified by Dan Wright for Seamaster and it sounded outstanding.  If your can preferences tend towards more demanding cans I'd go that direction.  As far as stock WA22 vis WA6SEM, I could not comment as I have not heard the stock WA22.  The modded version seemed a bit more tight and fast and I'd probably choose it over the WA6SEM if there were no $ issues.  Not a huge margin to my ears though - I think Seamaster thought differently, but you'd have to ask him.  This was based on listening at a meet with entirely different front-end sources so take any comparisons with a bag of salt.  Perhaps other comparisons of the two Woo amps can be found with a search here.  Jack certainly makes some damn fine amps.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jax said:


> 2. I believe the WA6SE with all the options Jack offers, would come to just under $2k.  I've only heard the WA22 after it had been modified by Dan Wright for Seamaster and it sounded outstanding.


 


 What is a Seamaster?  I have had Dan Wright modify some equipment for me and he is really good.


----------



## drapoel

jax: Thanks so much.. Really appreciate your answer. Will consider it.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What is a Seamaster?  I have had Dan Wright modify some equipment for me and he is really good.


 

 Not what, who.  Seamaster is a Headfi member. 
   
  Dan Wright (Modwright) does brilliant work on all levels.  His mods and products are excellent.  Disclaimer: he is a client of mine, but I have been using his stuff long before I started doing work for him.  The WA22 he did for Seamaster sounded great!  It was a custom mod, but I think he'd offer similar mods to anyone interested.


----------



## Clayton SF

When do you think Seamaster will return to this forum? I haven't seen any posts from or heard anymore about his Modwright WA22 in quite some time. He is quite the connoisseur on matters of the electron tube, etc. I think the last I read about him he was busy concentrating on other projects.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> When do you think Seamaster will return to this forum? I haven't seen any posts from or heard anymore about his Modwright WA22 in quite some time. He is quite the connoisseur on matters of the electron tube, etc. I think the last I read about him he was busy concentrating on other projects.


 

 No clue.  I only met him at a meet the one time.  I don't know him otherwise.  I also don't really know where he's coming from in terms of his audio experience either (no idea if his involvement in audio/tubes is a long-term passion or flash in the pan but he certainly seems to be thorough in his rolling experiments with his Woo amp) - his listening preferences that I observed seem to push towards rock, while mine doesn't really include much rock at all, so we were coming from entirely different places as far as musical tastes (corresponding components that suit musical tastes can certainly differ widely IME).  His amp at the meet sounded great, and it was utilizing some good tubes as I recall.  I think most of the mods Dan did were in recapping it.  He may have outlined them on his thread.  You can always try a PM or email if he has a link.


----------



## mikemalter

What work do you do?
  
  Quote: 





jax said:


> Not what, who.  Seamaster is a Headfi member.
> 
> Dan Wright (Modwright) does brilliant work on all levels.  His mods and products are excellent.  Disclaimer: he is a client of mine, but I have been using his stuff long before I started doing work for him.  The WA22 he did for Seamaster sounded great!  It was a custom mod, but I think he'd offer similar mods to anyone interested.


----------



## BIG POPPA

He is back, Just in the middle of moving. He has posted in the Seattle meet thread.
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> When do you think Seamaster will return to this forum? I haven't seen any posts from or heard anymore about his Modwright WA22 in quite some time. He is quite the connoisseur on matters of the electron tube, etc. I think the last I read about him he was busy concentrating on other projects.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What work do you do?


 

 I'm a commercial photographer and graphic designer.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jax said:


> I'll second the recommendation of the EML over the Sophia.  I didn't like the Sophia much at all - it tended to soften out dynamics and resolution to my ears.  The EML mesh is a great combo with the WA6SEM.
> 
> I guess I haven't "done it right" as suggested by SillySally.  I most certainly have never heard the WA6SEM come even close to rivaling my speakers.  I'm not sure what you mean by "tone quality" though, but I prefer listening to speakers by a long shot.  Cans I've used with the WA6SEM to form that opinion: HD800 (Currently), Grado GS1000 and HF2, W5000, K702, HD600, HD650, HE5.  Perhaps I just have not found the right combination, but as good as the WA6SEM is, and it is a damn fine amp, I have never heard it sounding as good as my speaker rig.  My speakers render far greater tonal accuracy and are far more engaging than virtually any headphone rig I've ever listened to (quite a few, though not as many as some here).  Speaker and headphone listening are simply entirely different experiences in my opinion...headphones will never be able to replicate listening to well-implemented speaker system.  I've said it before...the comparison is apples to oranges; the experience is entirely different. Just my .02 cents.  Regardless, high marks to the WA6SEM - it' a great amp.  Another one on your short list in the Woo line should be the WA22.


 

 Nicely put, and yes you are right the WA6SEM will not come close to speakers. What I was talking about was my WA5LEM+ and with my current tubes that are used in the WA5LE, and of course my source player and HD-800's with Cardas cord SE. I do also have many different headphones but for now my choice for my rig is the HD-800's.
   
  The only reason why I went to a WA5LE was because no matter what I did with tube's, source player, cords, etc.
  there was always something lacking with my WA6SE for achieving my goal.
   
  Yes to some degree speakers and head phones are apples and oranges, and yes for the most part head phones will not replicate a well implemented speaker system along with very good room acoustics, therefor not able to achieve a 3D (out-of-head) sound that a very good speaker system can achieve.
   
  The above is what I did set out to achieve with a head phone system, and imo I have come very close to duplicating that sound/[size=x-small]_spatial realism_[/size] and also keeping the micro detail that a great head phone system and source player can achieve.
   
  Not only do I use my head phone system for music but also for HQ movie soundtracks when viewing a BD movie.
  So for movies you must have a great source that uses a well written and defined algorithm to over come the recording technique's of most movie sound tracks. The Oppo BD-83 has a very good and well written software to help over come some of the recording technique for multi ch. Also there seems to be a new DAC system called the SVS that duplicates any speaker system for head phone use. Form everything I have read the SVS will duplicate any high end speaker system so when you use a good head phone rig you will get the illusion of what ever speaker system you have a profile for.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Nicely put, and yes you are right the WA6SEM will not come close to speakers. What I was talking about was my WA5LEM+ and with my current tubes that are used in the WA5LE, and of course my source player and HD-800's with Cardas cord SE. I do also have many different headphones but for now my choice for my rig is the HD-800's.
> 
> The only reason why I went to a WA5LE was because no matter what I did with tube's, source player, cords, etc.
> there was always something lacking with my WA6SE for achieving my goal.
> ...


 
   
   
  Actually, I will be so bold as to clarify my post in this way;  My statements were meant to include any and all headphones and amp combinations I've listened to.  Though I have not heard your own, I'd feel fairly confident to hazard a guess that I'd feel the same way about it.  For me it is more about the experience of having the music pumped directly into my ears and being entirely isolated from an environment and any visceral connections to the sounds I'm experiencing.  Any kind of hope to create a compelling illusion actually experiencing the real "presence" of a performance is severed for me with absence of those cues, especially the visceral ones.  It is difficult to describe - but as much as I do enjoy headphones for the privacy and intimacy they offer me, they simply don't hold a candle to what speakers can do for me, and always occur one step further detached from reality in that way.  Great  speakers can raise the hairs on the back of my neck and make me jump at times at the illusion of presence.  I have never once had any experience remotely close to that listening to headphones.  That experience is simply too far removed from reality for some reason.  I'll make a point to check out the WA5 if I get the opportunity.  Thanks for elaborating on your impressions.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jax said:


> Actually, I will be so bold as to clarify my post in this way;  My statements were meant to include any and all headphones and amp combinations I've listened to.  Though I have not heard your own, I'd feel fairly confident to hazard a guess that I'd feel the same way about it.  For me it is more about the experience of having the music pumped directly into my ears and being entirely isolated from an environment and any visceral connections to the sounds I'm experiencing.  Any kind of hope to create a compelling illusion actually experiencing the real "presence" of a performance is severed for me with absence of those cues, especially the visceral ones.  It is difficult to describe - but as much as I do enjoy headphones for the privacy and intimacy they offer me, they simply don't hold a candle to what speakers can do for me, and always occur one step further detached from reality in that way.  Great  speakers can raise the hairs on the back of my neck and make me jump at times at the illusion of presence.  I have never once had any experience remotely close to that listening to headphones.  That experience is simply too far removed from reality for some reason.  I'll make a point to check out the WA5 if I get the opportunity.  Thanks for elaborating on your impressions.


 

 I can truly understand your point of view and in most case's involving headphone rigs I agree with your opinion. However the two Woo amp's I have imo is one of the key's to getting anywhere close to the sound of a speaker system just to name one brand.
   
  Now when it comes to a WA5LE (setup with the right upgrades and right tubes) is just one key component to achieve what I am describing, as is a amp to a speaker system.
  My point with what I am saying is yes you can get a very rewarding headphone system for both music and movies that in most ways will be just as rewarding as a much higher price well calibrated speaker system and expensive room acoustics, yes there is give and take with both kind of system's. However the hair standing up and the jumping out of your seat is also very possible with a system like mine, so yes I understand what you are saying.
   
  And from what I have read there is what is called SVS Realiiser system (I have never heard the SVS) but from all accounts that I have read this system will give you everything a real speaker system will give you, with one exception and that is a sub woofer blast of air however there are devices that will give your body the fiscal feeling of a sub called Tactile Transducers that the SVS system will support with a LFE Ch connected to the SVS.
   
  Bottom line, never say never.
   
  The tubes I am running in my WA5LE are 2 nos WE300B's match pair date code 5626, 2 nos TS 6SN7GT round plates matched pair dated August of 1942 and 2 EML 5U4G mesh plate(latest production type), my source is a Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce Edition, headphones HD-800 & Cardas cable. The Oppo is connected directly to my WA5LE via King Cobra interconnects (1m),  for audio and video is from my Oppo via HDMI cable directly to my monitor (kuro 141) HDMI audio is off in the Oppo. I also use 2 Black Sand Violet Z1 power cords (1m) and a PS audio premier power station.
  My WA5LE also has the parts upgrade, Teflon sockets and a Alps RK50 pot.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I can truly understand your point of view and in most case's involving headphone rigs I agree with your opinion. However the two Woo amp's I have imo is one of the key's to getting anywhere close to the sound of a speaker system just to name one brand.
> 
> Now when it comes to a WA5LE (setup with the right upgrades and right tubes) is just one key component to achieve what I am describing, as is a amp to a speaker system.
> My point with what I am saying is yes you can get a very rewarding headphone system for both music and movies that in most ways will be just as rewarding as a much higher price well calibrated speaker system and expensive room acoustics, yes there is give and take with both kind of system's. However the hair standing up and the jumping out of your seat is also very possible with a system like mine, so yes I understand what you are saying.
> ...


 

 Those are fine choices in tubes.  I've used all of them in various components (still  using the EML and TSR's) and they are beyond reproach.  Sounds like a fine setup, and I have no doubt I'd enjoy listening to it, but I'd have to hear it to understand what you are talking about,  and would maintain a healthy skepticism that it would have any chance of doing for me what speakers do.  I've read about the SVS system with interest, which basically replicates spacial cues of speakers in a room via a computer based upon slight head movements.  I'd be quite interested to hear that as it is certainly one of the critical cues that is lacking for me in creation of the illusion of the real thing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Could it be the 274B sound in general doesn't agree with you?  Compared to a 5U4G many people seem to feel they are a bit slower and more lush, as you describe.  The 274B seems like more of a romantic sound for lack of a better way to put it.
   
  Quote:


jax said:


> I don't know about Sophia's tube quality or longevity as I only had mine for about a month.  I got it used so it was burned-in.  The sound quality is what turned me off.  Though it was nice on vocals, which is what I think others might be referring to as "lush", I found that it made the presentation overall a bit soft and slow, for lack of a better way to describe it.  The low end also seemed a bit compromised, especially in comparison to the EML.  That along with the comments I've already made, are what made me sell it after only a month.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Could it be the 274B sound in general doesn't agree with you?  Compared to a 5U4G many people seem to feel they are a bit slower and more lush, as you describe.  The 274B seems like more of a romantic sound for lack of a better way to put it.


 

 Sure,...isn't that what I said?  It's just my personal preference, needless to say.  I did not like the Sophia tube in the WA6SEM for all the reasons I said.   I have not tried other 274B tubes, if that's what you're suggesting.  I also have not found that 5U4G tubes all tend to sound alike.  I was strictly commenting on the Sophia vs EML in the my own application of them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jax said:


> Sure,...isn't that what I said?


 

 Fair enough.  No need to get snippy.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jax said:


> Those are fine choices in tubes.  I've used all of them in various components (still  using the EML and TSR's) and they are beyond reproach.  Sounds like a fine setup, and I have no doubt I'd enjoy listening to it, but I'd have to hear it to understand what you are talking about,  and would maintain a healthy skepticism that it would have any chance of doing for me what speakers do.  I've read about the SVS system with interest, which basically replicates spacial cues of speakers in a room via a computer based upon slight head movements.  I'd be quite interested to hear that as it is certainly one of the critical cues that is lacking for me in creation of the illusion of the real thing.


 
  I can fully understand why no body would believe what I am saying about the 3D sound sound out of head.
  Just for an example If I am not familiar with what I am viewing and hearing after everybody is in bed or I am alone, I will hear some sound effect that sounds they are coming from a different room and have on many a nights got my bat and check my house for prowlers. I have now learned to simply replay the sound track and I will hear the out of room sounds so I can rest easy.
  I almost brought my WA5LE to Canjam Chicago but I was still breaking in my WE300's and they had not completely stabilize, however they have now I guess that's the only way you can really tell if tubes like the WE300 are brand new given the fact they where made in 1956.
   
  If you are interested in the SVS there is a lot to read because this system really is designed for pro use, sound mixes of multi tracks for movies. The real draw back is unless you have a very high end speaker system or don't care if you take the SVS to its max then you have to go to a studio like AIX out in LA to record test sounds for the room and speakers and also for your ears and head shape and head phones you plan to use. Also the SVS is not cheap.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Fair enough.  No need to get snippy.


 

 Not snippy - just didn't really understand why you'd questioned the statement in that way.  I thought it was pretty clear.


----------



## complex

I've spent the majority of the weekend listening to my new (well, new to me) WA2. First tube amp and it's pretty amazing. I'd been eyeing one for a while and couldn't resist when I saw this one for sale.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





complex said:


> I've spent the majority of the weekend listening to my new (well, new to me) WA2. First tube amp and it's pretty amazing. I'd been eyeing one for a while and couldn't resist when I saw this one for sale.


 

 Cool, I look forward to hearing it next month!


----------



## oldwine

Complex,
   
  I noticed the knobs of your WA2 are swapped, other than the original (as well as mine) in the web. Are you asking Jack built for you??
   
  Quote:


complex said:


> I've spent the majority of the weekend listening to my new (well, new to me) WA2. First tube amp and it's pretty amazing. I'd been eyeing one for a while and couldn't resist when I saw this one for sale.


----------



## SpudHarris

On the advice of Xcalibur255 I bought a pair (well 2 pairs) of 6EW7's (thanks Xcalibur255) and have to say that I really, really love them already. Out of all the tubes I've tested to date these are my stand out favourite flavour! I'm not really good with descriptions of sound but if I had to describe the combination of the Sophia with the 6EW7's it would be ''airy, organic, rich and full''. Paired with my 600ohm DT880's I have to say I didn't want to stop listening last night. Man at this rate I'm gonna be divorced, so many late listening sessions......


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Complex,
> 
> I noticed the knobs of your WA2 are swapped, other than the original (as well as mine) in the web. Are you asking Jack built for you??


 
   
  The knobs on my WA2 are swapped as well. Except for the parts upgrades that he offers and the stepped attenuator, I didn't request any modifications. I got mine from Jack in May of this year.
   
  Maybe he decided to shorten the path from the RCA inputs to the selector? That's the only difference that I can see first-view. I know nothing about amp design but here are the internals from the two different versions.
   
  Jack's interior---

   
  My WA2 interiors---


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> On the advice of Xcalibur255 I bought a pair (well 2 pairs) of 6EW7's (thanks Xcalibur255) and have to say that I really, really love them already. Out of all the tubes I've tested to date these are my stand out favourite flavour! I'm not really good with descriptions of sound but if I had to describe the combination of the Sophia with the 6EW7's it would be ''airy, organic, rich and full''. Paired with my 600ohm DT880's I have to say I didn't want to stop listening last night. Man at this rate I'm gonna be divorced, so many late listening sessions......


 

  
  Would you say the 6EW7's sound a bit less "harsh" compared to the 6DE7's?  I'm wondering because I have two headphones in my main rig right now which happens to be slightly harsh in the upper mid/lower treble area, HD800 and D2000 (there's occasional sibilance which I'd like to tone down a tad).  Is there any noticeable smoothing in this area with the 6EW7 from what you notice? (I'm hoping so as I know DT880's have a similar peak in that area like both of the headphones mentioned).


----------



## SpudHarris

K_19, I only tried the 6DE7's for a little while as a test against the 6FD7's that were installed when I got the WA6. I don't know if it's because the 6FD7's were the sound I got used to but I found the 6DE7's slightly bright in comparison. The 6FD7's have a lushnesh about them certainly smoother than the 6DE7's.
   
  The 6EW7's just seem to sound tonally correct with the DT880's which is really pleasing because I bought the WA6 mainly for these phones but until now have been enjoying the HD600's more. I too have D2000's and have to say I don't think they shine with any of the tubes I've tried so far, although I have yet to try them with the 6EW7's.....


----------



## complex

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Complex,
> 
> I noticed the knobs of your WA2 are swapped, other than the original (as well as mine) in the web. Are you asking Jack built for you??


 

 I bought it from another Head-Fi member (he ordered it new in December), but I don't believe there are any upgrades or other special modifications.


----------



## oldwine

Dear,
   
  Maybe Jack have decided to do some modification to improve the sound. I think we should ask Jack about it. The news part of Woo do not show any changes on WA2.
   
  Although most of use are welcomed for such changing (in case can improve the performance), some users maybe in doubt why the one he gets different from the one shown on web.
   
  Clayton, when do you order your WA2?
   
  oldwine
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The knobs on my WA2 are swapped as well. Except for the parts upgrades that he offers and the stepped attenuator, I didn't request any modifications. I got mine from Jack in May of this year.
> 
> Maybe he decided to shorten the path from the RCA inputs to the selector? That's the only difference that I can see first-view. I know nothing about amp design but here are the internals from the two different versions.


 



  Quote: 





complex said:


> I bought it from another Head-Fi member (he ordered it new in December), but I don't believe there are any upgrades or other special modifications.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Dear,
> 
> Maybe Jack have decided to do some modification to improve the sound. I think we should ask Jack about it. The news part of Woo do not show any changes on WA2.
> 
> ...


 

 oldwine (great user name)
   
  I ordered my WA2 on February 4, 2010. Got the email shipping information on March 8. Delivered to my doorstep on March 11. I use it as a preamp. It is a wonderful preamp.


----------



## hodgjy

I have a weird situation here.  I think I know the answer, but I wanted to hear your opinions before I conclude.
   
  I have a Woo 3 with two 6DJ8 driver tubes.  Today, I had static in the right channel.  Wiggled the tube a little, static increased.  Swapped right and left tubes.  No static, even when wiggling tubes slightly.  Switched them again (back to original position), and static returned.  Switched again, no static, even when lightly agitating tubes.
   
  What are your thoughts?   I think I know, but want confirmation.  Thanks a bunch....


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Ordered a WooAudio6 tonight to go with my Sennheiser HD650s. It will be my first amp.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Ordered a WooAudio6 tonight to go with my Sennheiser HD650s. It will be my first amp.


 

 Congrats on your Woo purchase. I've got the same setup now for over 2 years. I'm still a happy camper. What are you going to use as a source?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have a weird situation here.  I think I know the answer, but I wanted to hear your opinions before I conclude.
> 
> I have a Woo 3 with two 6DJ8 driver tubes.  Today, I had static in the right channel.  Wiggled the tube a little, static increased.  Swapped right and left tubes.  No static, even when wiggling tubes slightly.  Switched them again (back to original position), and static returned.  Switched again, no static, even when lightly agitating tubes.
> 
> What are your thoughts?   I think I know, but want confirmation.  Thanks a bunch....


 


 It's probably tube pin oxidation. Clean them.


----------



## oldwine

hodgiy,
   
  I have dropped Jack an email. Hope he can clear our clue soon.
   
  BTW, i just guess, is it due the the pathways of signal??
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have a weird situation here.  I think I know the answer, but I wanted to hear your opinions before I conclude.


----------



## hodgjy

I did clean them.  What I gather is there is just enough manufacturing variation between the two tubes and the two sockets that the one troublesome tube just sits better in one socket than the other.
   
  One close inspection, the troublesome tube has one pin that is the very, very, very, slightly (and we're talking microscopic here--the only way I noticed it is because I am OCD when it comes to my toys) slightly not perpendicular to the base of the tube.  It just seems to fit better in one socket than the other.
   
  The bottom line is I am 99% sure it's just a tube issue and not the amp itself (I hope).  It's just weird tube voodoo.
   
  Does this sound like a reasonable conclusion?
  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> It's probably tube pin oxidation. Clean them.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I did clean them.  What I gather is there is just enough manufacturing variation between the two tubes and the two sockets that the one troublesome tube just sits better in one socket than the other.
> 
> One close inspection, the troublesome tube has one pin that is the very, very, very, slightly (and we're talking microscopic here--the only way I noticed it is because I am OCD when it comes to my toys) slightly not perpendicular to the base of the tube.  It just seems to fit better in one socket than the other.
> 
> ...


 

 I measured two tubes, different manufactures.  They both varied from .038" to .040" pin diameter. Maybe in combination with the differences in tube sockets?? Who knows?


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Congrats on your Woo purchase. I've got the same setup now for over 2 years. I'm still a happy camper. What are you going to use as a source?


 

 Mostly my computer. I also have a NuForce uDAC on the way. Really excited.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Mostly my computer. I also have a NuForce uDAC on the way. Really excited.


 

 I've only used my CD Player as a source. Never tried my Computer or an external DAC. Oh wait, I did try my iPod nano once. It sounded like crap.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I've only used my CD Player as a source. Never tried my Computer or an external DAC.


 

 I'll let you know how it turns out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll try it with my CD player as well!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> I'll let you know how it turns out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure you'll love it!


----------



## che15

I just want to post that Mr Seamaster is letting use the Sophia for a little while so that I get to decide between Sophia or EML 5U4G mesh for my WA6. I will let you guys know what I think.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I've only used my CD Player as a source. Never tried my Computer or an external DAC. Oh wait, I did try my iPod nano once. It sounded like crap.


 

 The uDAC RCA out is noticeably better than any iPod, and is closer to the level of the iBasso D4, D10 and Pico DAC.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

@ atbglenn:
   
  How often have you had to replace your tubes? I know it will vary depending on use, but I'm curious.


----------



## hodgjy

You may have been right.  I'm the kind of person that likes to understand WHY something is doing something rather than just treating the symptoms.  So, I took the tubes out today, took a steel brush and scrubbed the tube pins, and put them back into their original position.  The pins looked really clean before scrubbing, although they did have a slight blue tint to them.  Put them back in nice and shiny after a final cleaning with isopropyl. 
  
  No static today.
   
  Tube voodoo.  Even though tubes sound better, I can see why engineers made a push for digital technology.  Usually, digital errors make sense and can be easily debugged without the knowledge of the supernatural needed to use tubes.
   
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> It's probably tube pin oxidation. Clean them.


----------



## El_Doug

You can easily use tubes in a digital circuit   At the same time, I have a number of analog transistor devices
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tube voodoo.  Even though tubes sound better, I can see why engineers made a push for digital technology.  Usually, digital errors make sense and can be easily debugged without the knowledge of the supernatural needed to use tubes.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> @ atbglenn:
> 
> How often have you had to replace your tubes? I know it will vary depending on use, but I'm curious.


 

 Tubes can last for years. Replace them when you start to notice less output along with noticeable distortion, or when a tube just burns out. I haven't had a tube go bad yet..


----------



## hodgjy

So true, my friend.  Perhaps I should restate and say microprocessor!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





el_doug said:


> You can easily use tubes in a digital circuit


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Or perhaps solid state 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> So true, my friend.  Perhaps I should restate and say microprocessor!!


----------



## oldwine

Jack just replied. So as i guess, the change in circuit is an enhancement.
   
   
  --quote--
   
  The WA2, same as other models, has been enhanced over the years. In terms of
 sound, the main different is in the pre-amp and the headphone output has
 higher gain in the current version.

 Thanks,
 Jack
   
  --unquote--
   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> oldwine (great user name)
> 
> I ordered my WA2 on February 4, 2010. Got the email shipping information on March 8. Delivered to my doorstep on March 11. I use it as a preamp. It is a wonderful preamp.


----------



## SpudHarris

Is there any reason this wouldn't work in my WA6? I bought it but haven't tried it yet as it has an extra pin in # 1 position......
   
  Would'nt want to damage anything and don't have as much experience as you guys


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Is there any reason this tube wouldn't work in my WA6? I bought it but haven't tried it yet as it has an extra pin in # 1 position......
> 
> Would'nt want to damage anything and don't have as much experience as you guys


 
  When I click on your link, it want's me to log into my ebay account. It's my policy never to trust links that ask for user names and passwords. What is the item number?


----------



## SpudHarris

Ahh, sorry about that.
   
  Does this work?


----------



## atbglenn

The link now works. The tube will work but from what I hear it's not supposed to be the best sounding


----------



## SpudHarris

Well atbglenn, you are right about that......
   
  It's certainly no match for the Sophia but then it didn't cost much and doesn't sound too bad. If anything happens to the Sophia at least I'll have something else to keep me ticking over whilst I get another Sophia or EML 5U4G. Thank you for your help though, appreciated.


----------



## atbglenn

SpudHarris, my pleasure. I wish I could be more help. I'm much better at troubleshooting than I am at describing subtle differences between tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm getting some pretty bad static from the headphone jack of my amp all of a sudden.  It requires quite a bit of twisting and fiddling to finally make it go away.  Could it be some kind of buildup on the contacts, or should I contact Jack for his advice?


----------



## squid1980

Hi every one. I'm newbie in here. This is my first post.
  please let me join your
 Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite Team.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



   
   
   
*Dac: *_Matrix mini I mod_
*Headphone Amp: *_Woo Audio WA6 w/ PDPS _
*Headphones: *_Sennheiser HD650_


----------



## squid1980

Hi everyone I'm newbie in this community
   
  I have standard woo wa6 with Mullard Gz34 metal base and sylvania 6ew7 use with Hd 650.
   
  do you know where can i find 2 x Black Gate WK 220uf 200V (non-polar, asymmetrical "power tank").
   
  Thank a lot and happy to be here.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm getting some pretty bad static from the headphone jack of my amp all of a sudden.  It requires quite a bit of twisting and fiddling to finally make it go away.  Could it be some kind of buildup on the contacts, or should I contact Jack for his advice?


 

 As long as you haven't been doing any tube rolling you should be ok.
  I think you have cleaned the pins not to long ago so I don't think its that.
  Sounds like your female phone jack may be loose on your Woo. Does the male phone jack when inserted into the female phone jack wiggle or feel like the female phone jack is loose, if so just tighten the nut on the outside of your amp that holds the phone jack and also hold the phone jack from the inside of your amp so it doesn't turn and break a lead. If that doesn't help E-Mail Jack.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





squid1980 said:


> Hi every one. I'm newbie in here. This is my first post.
> please let me join your
> Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite Team.
> 
> ...


 
 
 Welcome!!!


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As long as you haven't been doing any tube rolling you should be ok.


 
   
  I have been tube rolling recently, is there anything I should be aware of apart from not touching the pins?
   
  I've settled now with my Sophia and 2 x Sylvania 6EW7's so won't be rolling anything for a while but just so I know....
   
  Thanks


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have been tube rolling recently, is there anything I should be aware of apart from not touching the pins?
> 
> I've settled now with my Sophia and 2 x Sylvania 6EW7's so won't be rolling anything for a while but just so I know....
> 
> Thanks


 
  Those are fine should be NP, its just some of the more exotic tube rolling ideas floating around that concerns me a little.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have been tube rolling recently, is there anything I should be aware of apart from not touching the pins?
> 
> I've settled now with my Sophia and 2 x Sylvania 6EW7's so won't be rolling anything for a while but just so I know....
> 
> ...


----------



## SpudHarris

sillysally, Seamaster - Many thanks, feel a bit foolish sometimes asking but better safe than sorry.
   
  Do you guys have a view of the EML 5U4G over the Sophia at all? I contacted Jack and at the time he had an EML in stock but they are a lot of money......


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> sillysally, Seamaster - Many thanks, feel a bit foolish sometimes asking but better safe than sorry.
> 
> Do you guys have a view of the EML 5U4G over the Sophia at all? I contacted Jack and at the time he had an EML in stock but they are a lot of money......


 

 I use the EML 5U4G's mesh plate in my WA5LE and in my WA6SE I use a nos EML 274B solid plate, but as a backup I have the Princess for my WA6SE. It all really comes down to how picky you are with whatever you are trying to achieve.
  I would say the tubes you are using now are giving you a natural and clear tone with a wide sound-stage.
   
  btw with tubes that have a base like the Princess always hold the base of the tube when removing or inserting into your amp.


----------



## SpudHarris

Looking on the Sophia site and noticed 6SN7 tubes which look very nice. 6SN7's are fetching big bucks on e-bay are they compatible/any good?


----------



## K_19

For those who were wondering what the exact hardware problem was on my damaged WA6SE, Jack's gotten back to me and told me that the result of the right channel dying was due to damage to the output transformers... the connections and wires were apparently fine.   The amp must have taken a lot of beating during transport then I'm guessing... (unless the seller shipped it off already damaged due to his own mistreatment or something like that... can't say for sure but I wouldn't put it past him after everything that's happened 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  It'll be $200 including parts and labour, which seems reasonable to me, adding up close to what the price would have been if I had bought it new anyway. The main chassis is impossible to replace, but he can put on new transformer covers so that'll take away most of the ugliness hopefully.
   
  Hopefully I'll get it back soon and I'll finally be able to happily enjoy it, putting an end to this little unfortunate saga.  My HD800 is eagerly waiting!


----------



## David.M

hey K_19, did the seller ever refund the movie? Or did Paypal/USPS take care of it?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Looking on the Sophia site and noticed 6SN7 tubes which look very nice. 6SN7's are fetching big bucks on e-bay are they compatible/any good?


 


 Some Sophia tubes are made in Tianjin, China by Full Music. Sophia just re-badge them 6SN7 included. Not necessary bad tube, just over priced.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As long as you haven't been doing any tube rolling you should be ok.
> I think you have cleaned the pins not to long ago so I don't think its that.
> Sounds like your female phone jack may be loose on your Woo. Does the male phone jack when inserted into the female phone jack wiggle or feel like the female phone jack is loose, if so just tighten the nut on the outside of your amp that holds the phone jack and also hold the phone jack from the inside of your amp so it doesn't turn and break a lead. If that doesn't help E-Mail Jack.


 
  It is the output jack.  If I twist the male end of the headphone connector I get major static.  This literally just started out of the blue last night, I never heard a peep of static before yesterday.  The connector does wiggle, but it seems there is a spring clip on the right side of the female end of the connector which applies pressure and I assumed this was normal.  the jack itself is not loose which is why I was thinking it might be a contact issue, but there shouldn't be any buildup on the conctacts since it is all gold plated stuff being inserted.  Eventually if I slowly twist the headphone jack in the socket the static subsides but I don't consider this normal.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It is the output jack.  If I twist the male end of the headphone connector I get major static.  This literally just started out of the blue last night, I never heard a peep of static before yesterday.  The connector does wiggle, but it seems there is a spring clip on the right side of the female end of the connector which applies pressure and I assumed this was normal.  the jack itself is not loose which is why I was thinking it might be a contact issue, but there shouldn't be any buildup on the conctacts since it is all gold plated stuff being inserted.  Eventually if I slowly twist the headphone jack in the socket the static subsides but I don't consider this normal.


 

 I have never seen a spring clip on a female Jack. There are 3 wires on that phone Jack and 1 or more of those wired may not have much slack, so don't twist the phone jack.
  Hold the phone jack from the inside and use a pair of needle nose pliers to tighten the nut that is on the outside of the case. Were the phone jack sticks out of the case you will see threads on it and the nut is what holds the phone jack in place.
  Make sure you unplug the power cord first!!!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It is the output jack.  If I twist the male end of the headphone connector I get major static.  This literally just started out of the blue last night, I never heard a peep of static before yesterday.  The connector does wiggle, but it seems there is a spring clip on the right side of the female end of the connector which applies pressure and I assumed this was normal.  the jack itself is not loose which is why I was thinking it might be a contact issue, but there shouldn't be any buildup on the conctacts since it is all gold plated stuff being inserted.  Eventually if I slowly twist the headphone jack in the socket the static subsides but I don't consider this normal.


 

 Try cleaning your headphone jack with alcohol even though it may look clean. I had the same problem with PX100's into my ipod. Cleaning the jack worked for me..


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





david.m said:


> hey K_19, did the seller ever refund the movie? Or did Paypal/USPS take care of it?


 

 Long story short, the seller never refunded the money and got what he deserved by being perma-banned from here (or so the mod said).  Regarding the USPS insurance, I decided NOT to follow through on it even though I could have, because I could no longer trust the seller at all (in unlikely event of refunding being issued it would have went straight to the seller, not me, and I did not want him to cheat me out of that too! If he gained even MORE at my expense that would have made me really mad... so I did not want to take that risk).  Overall, a horrible experience I do not want to remember anymore (went through tremendous amount of stress over those weeks), but something I learned a lot from.  I do believe in karma and think that for the seller, what goes around will come around on his end one day.
   
  On the bright side of things I did keep the amp and it did not cost as much as I thought it would to get it fixed by Jack.  So I'm ready to move on and just enjoy music again.


----------



## che15

I need a little help, do you guys know if there are socket adapter so that I could use fat bottle driver tubes with my 3 year old wa6?


----------



## Xcalibur255

@ abtglenn:  I'll try that.  I'm not sure what could have become built up in there but you never know.
   
  @ sillysally:  I'm expressing myself badly.  When I say twist I'm referring to the plug on the headphones, not the jack on the amp.  I have to twist the plug on the k701s back and forth a few times until the static settles down.  The headphone jack itself on the amp is not loose.  There are a pair of spring contacts inside which transfer the signal from the headphone plug and that is what I meant by cleaning.


----------



## che15

I am listening to the Sophia Princess that Mr Seamaster let me borrow with my new 3 year old WA6 with PDPS. The sound is much more open and alive , with better soundstage and Imaging . Much better than the sovtek 5UG4. My only problem is the volume with this amp driving my HD-650. I just sold a 2 year old version of the WA6 stock and the volume was a little better on that one. do not not why, I checked my source to see if it had a low output, but it does not. any ideas.


----------



## Seamaster

I listened WA6 at meet with HD650 about at 11:30 and T1 at 1:00 my WA22 about the same


----------



## che15

I am listening right now to Jack Johnson a very loud cd at 3:00 I really do not know what is going on. My HD-650 play louder at 12:00 on my V-can from the same cd player.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I wish I could help, but maybe it would be a good idea to email Jack and ask him about why the older amp with the PDPS upgrade is not as loud as the newer amp you used to have that didn't have the PDPS.  I don't know if the fatter tubes the newer amp could take would make it louder or not.  Regardless, I've never felt my WA6 could not play my HD600 too loud.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I need a little help, do you guys know if there are socket adapter so that I could use fat bottle driver tubes with my 3 year old wa6?


 

 I think you may be speaking of an octal adapter to run octal tubes in a 9-pin socket.  They're available on eBay, or through Bolder Cable, or there's also a guy in Florida who's made them for some folks. Anyone competent with tubes and their components should be able to wire one up for your.  BUT, I don't know if they'll be directly compatible with a WA6(SE) and you should DEFINITELY ask Jack Woo before just doing a plug-'N-play attempt.  I'm pretty sure I've read that it is NOT that simple - that something internal would also need to be altered in order to use the octal tubes like 6SN7's.  If I'm misinterpreting your question, apologies in advance.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I am listening right now to Jack Johnson a very loud cd at 3:00 I really do not know what is going on. My HD-650 play louder at 12:00 on my V-can from the same cd player.


 

 If I tried that with my WA6SEM it would be very painful.  I'm rarely above 11 on my amp with HD800's, and before that with HD600's and having tried 650's as well.  I believe the standard WA6 puts out less power and that might explain why so much volume is needed.  It will also depend on the amount of gain on your source's output, but 3:30 is pretty high to me...not that there's anything wrong with having to listen at that setting; it just is not my experience with several different front-end options. 
   
  Seamaster - were you listening to a WA6 or an SE?  The WA6 at the Meet in the Middle was an SE.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I am listening right now to Jack Johnson a very loud cd at 3:00 I really do not know what is going on. My HD-650 play louder at 12:00 on my V-can from the same cd player.


 

 Did you switch from a 6FD7 or 6DR7 to a 6DE7 or 6EW7 drive tube?  The lower gain would explain the volume difference.  Even on the low gain tubes 3 o'clock on the volume knob would be deafening on my WA6.


----------



## SpudHarris

Sorry to bother you guys again but I seem to have boobed with a tube purchase.
   
  Is the 6SN7 a driver? I bought a matched pair but the bottom isn't like my other driver tubes it has a centre locator as with the Sophia....... I'll do some more investigating but at the moment I'm a bit annoyed with myself


----------



## grokit

I have a "Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT" tube that's a driver, if that helps.


----------



## zeroeight

Hi everyone.  I am now an official member and here is my badge.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





jax said:


> If I tried that with my WA6SEM it would be very painful.  I'm rarely above 11 on my amp with HD800's, and before that with HD600's and having tried 650's as well.  I believe the standard WA6 puts out less power and that might explain why so much volume is needed.  It will also depend on the amount of gain on your source's output, but 3:30 is pretty high to me...not that there's anything wrong with having to listen at that setting; it just is not my experience with several different front-end options.
> 
> I agree, 3:30 would cause serious damage--I have a WA6SE stock, with the Sophia and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s.  With my HD800s, I'm getting a nice full volume at just slightly above 9:00.  Even with older recordings that have slightly lower mastering levels, I've never been above 10.  My sources are a Marantz CPD and the DACMagic.  No extra gain controls on those.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Try cleaning your headphone jack with alcohol even though it may look clean. I had the same problem with PX100's into my ipod. Cleaning the jack worked for me..


 

 atbglenn--buddy!
  You've got to stay away from that alcohol. You're cleaning way to many things with it. Stick to sipping it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Skoal....


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Sorry to bother you guys again but I seem to have boobed with a tube purchase.
> 
> Is the 6SN7 a driver? I bought a matched pair but the bottom isn't like my other driver tubes it has a center locator as with the Sophia....... I'll do some more investigating but at the moment I'm a bit annoyed with myself


 

 Just to add to 'grokit' reply,  yes the 6SN7 has a center guild post. And NO its not a rectifier
  If you have a Woo amp you may want to ask Jack about 6SN7 adapters and if that would work in your Woo amp.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> @ abtglenn:  I'll try that.  I'm not sure what could have become built up in there but you never know.
> 
> @ sillysally:  I'm expressing myself badly.  When I say twist I'm referring to the plug on the headphones, not the jack on the amp.  I have to twist the plug on the k701s back and forth a few times until the static settles down.  The headphone jack itself on the amp is not loose.  There are a pair of spring contacts inside which transfer the signal from the headphone plug and that is what I meant by cleaning.


 
  You did try a different set of headphones in your amp, right? If not do it, if the problem still remains there is a good possibility its a loose phone Jack or a bad phone Jack or a loose wire on the phone jack.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> atbglenn--buddy!
> You've got to stay away from that alcohol. You're cleaning way to many things with it. Stick to sipping it.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton, I never sip it. Just a bit of guzzling every now and then


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have a "Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT" tube that's a driver, if that helps.


 
   
  Thanks Grokit....
  are you using it in a Woo Amp? If so are you using adapters??


----------



## grokit

I had to send the Woo off for repair as it arrived damaged, so not at the moment. I do not think it had any special adapters.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I am listening right now to Jack Johnson a very loud cd at 3:00 I really do not know what is going on. My HD-650 play louder at 12:00 on my V-can from the same cd player.


 


 this is strange.i use my hd650 on 9-10 clock max and if the  CD is of low volume,i put it on 11 oclock.
  this is all high gain,i never adjusted the dial after 11 oclock since i got the amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

For anybody curious about using 6SN7 tubes in the WA6, I can report that with adapters to make their use possible in the sockets they sound very nice with a couple of exceptions.  I'm running a cheapo pair of RCA 6SN7GTB blackplates I grabbed for $25 off eBay and they are easily better sounding than any 6DE7/6FD7/6EW7 I've tried before with the sole exception of the rare black crossplate 6FD7 tube I've talked about in the past.  That tube and these 6SN7s actually sound extremely similar, suspiciously so, except the 6SN7 has a sweeter sounding midrange and an even bigger soundstage.  The 6SN7 takes the WA6 to a different level, with control, refinement and inner resolution the 6DE7 tube family cannot match.  I'm not even using a first rate rectifier and I'm getting great results.  I can only imagine how the combination will sound when I am able to purchase the EML 274B I want so badly.
   
  One big catch:  the WA6 only seems to handle the tubes up to a certain volume level.  I've noticed that beyond 12 to 1 o'clock on the dial they begin to distort.  By 3 o'clock it is quite bad.  This was on new tubes so maybe that had something to do with it.  After they had some hours on them I didn't notice it again but I also didn't crank the volume up trying to hear it again either.  The gain seems to be about the same as the 6DE7/6EW7 so I tend to settle into about 10:30 or 11 o'clock for my listening with 12 to 1 o'clock for loud songs.  This puts me in the distortion free zone but just barely.  Also interesting to note is the RCA 6SN7 tubes changed more in their first 5 hours of use than any tube I've tried before as well.  On first listen I honestly wasn't impressed but when I came in to listen again later in the night they had improved dramatically.
   
  The amp looks kind of dorky with the socket adapters.  It raises the tubes up to the same height as the rectifier almost, but if anybody is seeking to +1 the performance of their WA6 I recommend exploring this option.  As takezo told me a while back, you don't have to look for the expensive 6SN7 tubes (and boy are there some), the bottom of the barrel 6SN7GTBs like the ones I'm using right now are a nice improvement over the 6DE7 family tubes.  Hopefully there are no long term issues with using these tubes, but they are compatible electrically so I cannot see why there would be an issue.


----------



## SpudHarris

Oh man that's what I wanted to hear Xcalibur255, thank you once again.....
   
  The million dollar question though, where can i buy the adapters. I have e-mailed Jack and am awaiting a reply but I suspect that guy is up to his neck in e-mail queries. I have Electro-Harmonix 6SN7EH tubes and can't wait to give them a try.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I purchased mine from this gentleman.  http://myworld.ebay.com/2359glenn/   You have to contact him and ask though because he doesn't normally list a 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## takezo

glad to hear the 6sn7 are working out well for you, xcalibur. there should be no issues as
  long as you don't change out your capacitors for a lower rated voltage. anything 200v or
  above should be fine for several thousand hours. (the wa6 with the 6sn7 doesn't see any
  voltage over 200, but i can't be 100% certain since wooaudio does seem to change their
  parts without notice)
  don't forget, these are eletrolytic caps, so they all have finite amount of hours-life. some caps
  last longer than others by hundreds of hours. i've been using the 6sn7 and it's variants for
  almost 2 yrs. now, with no issues.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks takezo, that is good to know.  So it is possible that the capacitors in the amp will not outlast the tubes?  That thought had never occurred to me.


----------



## takezo

most definitely... it depends on the parts. some tubes are designed to last 10k hours;
  some tubes last only 3k hrs; bad tubes die even sooner. same goes for the caps.
  blackgates are suppose to last 5k or more but i'm sure there are exceptions, meaning
  they may die sooner. the cheaper generic caps usually have 2k to 3k hrs life span.


----------



## grokit

Quote:  





> So it is possible that the capacitors in the amp will not outlast the tubes?  That thought had never occurred to me.


 
   
  X2
   
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> most definitely... it depends on the parts. some tubes are designed to last 10k hours;
> some tubes last only 3k hrs; bad tubes die even sooner. same goes for the caps.
> blackgates are suppose to last 5k or more but i'm sure there are exceptions, meaning
> they may die sooner. the cheaper generic caps usually have 2k to 3k hrs life span.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Am I correct in my understanding that capacitors tend to dry out and begin sounding bad, but don't really fail outright?  This is why old gear doesn't "sound quite like it used to" I imagine.  If they just plain failed then my Denon receiver should be dead by now, but I often get the impression that it just doesn't sound as good as it did 10 years ago. 
   
  You never really hear people talk about having to replace the capacitors in an amp outside of performing performance upgrades, so this is interesting food for thought.  The funny thing is most people never keep a piece of gear long enough to find out I imagine.
  
  Perhaps tube equipment is harder on capacitors than SS devices are in some way too.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm no expert on this, and it's really impossible to make any generalizations at all, but I tend to believe that capacitors can last decades if used within operating limits.  My parents have a stereo they bought in the 1970s and it's used every day and still going strong. 
   
  Edit:
   
  Just did a quick read, and caps are rated between 2-5k hours (depending on quality) when run at between 85-100 degrees C.  Even though tube amps get hot, most of the heat comes from the tube and then the transformer.  I'm not sure how hot the caps get, but for every 10 degree reduction, life expectancy doubles.


----------



## atbglenn

I have a Kenwood Tuner from 1972 still going strong with it's original capacitors.


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  The best thing you can do for caps is to use them and keep them cooler than 85 degrees C.  If so, they'll last decades.
  
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I have a Kenwood Tuner from 1972 still going strong with it's original capacitors.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> For anybody curious about using 6SN7 tubes in the WA6, I can report that with adapters to make their use possible in the sockets they sound very nice......


 

 Nice work !! That's the spirit
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I purchased mine from this gentleman.  http://myworld.ebay.com/2359glenn/   You have to contact him and ask though because he doesn't normally list a 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapter.


 


 That is the same guy I have been recommending. He makes a lot different custom made adapters. Even not listed on ebay, just ask.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So, you think it's worth buying a 6SN7 adapter to try my pair of Sylvania VT-231 tubes with the WA6?  Unfortunately I only have one of my two Bad Boy's left, and sold both of the grey glass RCA.


----------



## SpudHarris

Jack just replied about the 6SN7 compatibility etc and I can confirm that Woo have the adapters in stock and I have just ordered mine


----------



## TheAudioDude

I just picked up some tubes at the MIT swapfest:
   
  Raytheon 5U4GB (tall glass, not bottle)
  Sylvania 5U4GB (tall glass, not bottle)
  GE 5U4GA (tall glass, not bottle)
  JAN 6080
  RCA 6SN7GT
   
  All for $10.  There were many others, but I didn't spend a lot of time sorting through the bins.  There were definitely some weird-looking tubes too.  Some were larger than my fist!


----------



## che15

How much did you pay for the adapters? Did you asked him about the distortion at high volumes that caliber talked about?


----------



## che15

Sorry , my question was for spud!


----------



## che15

I wanted to let you guys know that my problem with the low volume with my WA6 is almost no more a problem. The 6DR6 that Jack recommended are giving a much greater amount of output . Also I found these socket savers 9 to 9 pin that are allowing me to use my big bottle 6FD7 sylvanias and RCA that are also giving more output power. Thanks to all of you for your help.


----------



## SpudHarris

Che15 sorry I didn't mention the distortion to Jack. I'm using Sylvania Fat Bottle 6EW7's and depending on which phones I use I can get to 2 o'clock on my volume......
   
  Hadn't thought about socket savers but guess if you roll a fair bit they would be cool.
   
  The adapters from Jack to use the 6SN7's are $40 including shipping. I've bought brand new Electro-Harmonix 6SN7's to start with at £25 a pair but some of the older ones are fetching silly money. Well, I'll soon be in a position to comment on them but the 6EW7's with the Sophia Princess are really doing it for me at the moment


----------



## che15

Thanks Spud, the reason why I am using the socket savers is because I have an old wa6 which has small cut outs where the driver tubes go so fat bottle tubes do not fit without the socket savers.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys,
  
 I want some better /6922/E88CC/ECC88/6DJ8's, some with a different tolerance so the midrange and treble will be effected? Got any suggestions on which would make my system sound more midrange centric?
  
 I'm currently running some Bugle Boy 6DJ8's that I got off ebay for $20, but I think they maybe in bad shape... I know the Mullard tube in my DAC25.2 made a nice change in sound, but I want more midrange for my DT990's...
  
 Yes I know tubes don't have a sound, but it's the gear that reacts to the tubes tolerance and that changes the sound in various ways


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Thanks Spud, the reason why I am using the socket savers is because I have an old wa6 which has small cut outs where the driver tubes go so fat bottle tubes do not fit without the socket savers.


 
   
  Ahh yes I remember now. I bought mine of another member and it's fairly new so no issue with fat bottles which is a good thing coz most of mine are...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





che15 said:


> How much did you pay for the adapters? Did you asked him about the distortion at high volumes that caliber talked about?


 

 I do not think this is a real problem.  I think I pushed new tubes too hard is all.  I've listened to them fairly loudly since then and the problem hasn't reoccurred.  Granted, I didn't crank the volume way up to deliberately test this but I think I was loud enough I would have noticed if the distortion was still there.  The moral of the story being to go easy on the tubes for the first 10 hours, which is probably good advice all around anyway.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> So, you think it's worth buying a 6SN7 adapter to try my pair of Sylvania VT-231 tubes with the WA6?  Unfortunately I only have one of my two Bad Boy's left, and sold both of the grey glass RCA.


 

 I think it's worth trying personally.  I'm very pleased with the results.... the amp took an all around step up in performance with the 6SN7s.  Haha, I wish you'd sold those greyglass RCAs to me...... I really want to try a pair.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I've bought brand new Electro-Harmonix 6SN7's to start with at £25 a pair but some of the older ones are fetching silly money. Well, I'll soon be in a position to comment on them but the 6EW7's with the Sophia Princess are really doing it for me at the moment


 

 You can find NOS RCA, Sylvania and Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tubes for less than that if you look around, and I think you'd be very pleased with the results.


----------



## David.M

Xcalibur,
   
  what would you say is the smoothest, warmest sounding driver tubes on the WA6? I recall reading a couple of your posts on this thread( a while back IIRC), and I think you mentioned something about each and every tube you tried were harsh/sibilant. Is that problem resolved now?
   
  Also, post impressions on that EML 274b Rectifier tube, whenever you get the chance or whenever you get the money to purchase them


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've found the brand matters more than the actual tube type when it comes to smoothness and refinement, at least amongst the drop-in types (6DE7/6CY7/6DR7/6FD7/6EW7).  Vintage also matters a lot here, with the older tubes sounding more refined than the newer ones.  I have one pair of RCA 6FD7 with a unique plate construction (that nobody else seems to have ever seen before) which I like a lot, otherwise I never found a drive tube for the amp I was happy with.  I found the Raytheon to be dry and lean, the GE to be harsh and overbearing in the midrange, and the RCA to be too flamboyant in the upper bass and lower treble regions.  Never tried a Sylvania..... with their reputation for being bright it just seemed like a bad idea in my case.  With affordable run-of-the-mill 6SN7 tubes sounding as good as they do I think this is going to be my solution going forward. 
   
  These are only my opinions and you may hear something different.  It's important to experiment and find out for yourself what you like.  Also keep in mind I listen on headphones that are naturally bright, on a DAC that also has a reputation for being analytical so it is natural for me to favor a smoother and darker sound when seeking out tubes.  Different equipment have different synergies with each other.


----------



## David.M

yes, i completely agree Xcalibur
   
  I do not own the WA6(but i plan to in the near future) but when i saw that post you made a while back - saying that you were sensitive to harsh highs and sibilance, that got me thinking whether or not i should upgrade my Little Dot MK3 to the WA6 or look for something else. Since i as well, can easily spot the tiniest bit of sibilance(which I'm thankful is not in my little dot tube amp)
   
  My Dac is also a bit on the neutral/detailed side + the beyer DT990/600's are know to be bright, so i just wanted to make sure if the WA6 would be the right one + I wanted to make sure a pair of tubes existed that is more to the; warm,smooth,musical and sibilant free side.   I'm pretty familiar with your previous posts and I know that feeling of buying a well-regarded amp - - just to know that you can never be fully satisfied. Been there brother, I've been there.
   
  I am just making sure and doing more research; here and there, before purchasing this mighty fine amp. Thanks for your time and your helpful responses to others.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Woo amps tend to be neutral in general, but you can get them sounding warm with some experimentation and effort.  I think they deserve their praise, but but it might also be worth looking into amps that have a reputation for being warm sounding so you don't have to try so hard to get the sound you want.  Now that the WA6 is getting there I must say it was worth it though, the sound is smooth and very detailed/revealing.


----------



## hodgjy

X2.  Using certain power tubes can make the Woos (like the 2, 3, and 22) sound cold to neutral (Sylvania 7236) or warm (many flavors of the 6AS7G).  That's the benefit of tubes--you can roll in the sound that you like the best.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The Woo amps tend to be neutral in general, but you can get them sounding warm with some experimentation and effort.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> X2.  Using certain power tubes can make the Woos (like the 2, 3, and 22) sound cold to neutral (Sylvania 7236) or warm (many flavors of the 6AS7G).  That's the benefit of tubes--you can roll in the sound that you like the best.


 

 Oh so very true. I am using RCA 6AS7G CRC ST tubes in my WA2 and the change is incredible. It has has changed the sound stage on my WA2 from cold and ever-so-slightly brittle to pleasantly warm and cozy and personal (gezelig as the Dutch say). I am so impressed by this change that I bought 4 more replacements.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm finding that the RCA 6AS7G might be my favorite power tube in my WA3.  I have the Tung-Sol 5998, which is a great tube, but the RCA is just a little more romantic and seductive.  The best part is the RCA is everywhere and dirt cheap, unlike the 5998.  I use both tubes, and right now the 5998 is in the driver seat, but I think I'll listen the RCA again this week.  I've been on an acoustic kick lately, and the RCA excels at that.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh so very true. I am using RCA 6AS7G CRC ST tubes in my WA22 and the change is incredible. It has has changed the sound stage on my WA2 from cold and ever-so-slightly brittle to pleasantly warm and cozy and personal (gezelig as the Dutch say). I am so impressed by this change that I bought 4 more replacements.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm finding that the RCA 6AS7G might be my favorite power tube in my WA3.  I have the Tung-Sol 5998, which is a great tube, but the RCA is just a little more romantic and seductive.  The best part is the RCA is everywhere and dirt cheap, unlike the 5998.  I use both tubes, and right now the 5998 is in the driver seat, but I think I'll listen the RCA again this week.  I've been on an acoustic kick lately, and the RCA excels at that.


 
  Dirt cheap is right and it is MY favorite tube. I had those tubes sitting on my shelf and one day I said "why not." I think I had read somewhere that the change would be really nice. And immediately after swapping them out (and before a proper burn-in) I noticed the difference.


----------



## hodgjy

I just got into tube audio really "full time" just this summer.  The first lesson I learned is that a tube's sound isn't dictated by its price.  I've been having a blast using some of the "cheaper" tubes.
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Dirt cheap is right and it is MY favorite tube. I had those tubes sitting on my shelf and one day I said "why not." I think I had read somewhere that the change would be really nice. And immediately after swapping them out (and before a proper burn-in) I noticed the difference.


----------



## grokit

A couple of tube newbie (tewbie?) questions:
   
  I have tried two different power tubes in a WA22, and the Sylvania 7236 has a lot more power than the GE 6AS7, which I prefer. Do these other power tubes like the Tung-Sol and RCA mentioned above have as much output power as the 7236? If not, are there any alternatives to the Sylvania that have as much power, but may offer a more "warm, romantic, seductive, cozy, and personal" sound?
   
  Also, is it a given that the power tubes, driver tubes, and rectifiers each have something to offer to the sound signature on an individual basis, or does it also depend on how the individual types of tubes synergise with each other?
   
  Thanks again...


----------



## hodgjy

I don't have a specific answer to your question, but I've found that the Svetlana 6H13C tube in my WA3 is the loudest--the volume pot is lower than other tubes for the same volume output.  I don't worry so much about how high I turn the volume knob.  Most of my listening is done between 9-10 o'clock on the volume pot.
   
  I also think each individual tube type in a system (power, driver, or rectifier) can add its own signature to an amp.  Surely, they will synergize with each other, but you can roll in one tube at a time and hear differences.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> A couple of tube newbie (tewbie?) questions:
> 
> I have tried two different power tubes in a WA22, and the Sylvania 7236 has a lot more power than the GE 6AS7, which I prefer. Do these other power tubes like the Tung-Sol and RCA mentioned above have as much output power as the 7236? If not, are there any alternatives to the Sylvania that have as much power, but may offer a more "warm, romantic, seductive, cozy, and personal" sound?
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I don't have a specific answer to your question, but I've found that the Svetlana 6H13C tube in my WA3 is the loudest--the volume pot is lower than other tubes for the same volume output.  I don't worry so much about how high I turn the volume knob.  Most of my listening is done between 9-10 o'clock on the volume pot.


 

 Thanks for the reply. I have some very inefficient headphones to drive, so power level is important to me. But regardless of level, what qualities does the Svetlana impart to the sound?


----------



## hodgjy

I personally despise the Svetlana.  It's really not a bad tube, but it has a quirk that drives me crazy.  It's warm, which I like.  However, it's veiled, wooly, and a little congested.  But, that's not the real problem.  It's very fatiguing to my ears and gives me intense pressure headaches.
   
  This is just my experience and might be a rare exception.  Several amp makers use the Svetlana extensively because it is really a tough tube that can be driven really hard.  The general consensus on the Svetlana is it is a warm tube.  It's not particular bad at anything, but it's not particularly good at anything, either.
   
  If you like the power of the Sylvania 7236, but want a little more "musical sound", perhaps you should look into finding a Tung-Sol 7236.  They are rare, but out there.  The Tung-Sol 5998 is a very nice, musical tube as well, but doesn't go as loud as the 7236.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have some very inefficient headphones to drive, so power level is important to me. But regardless of level, what qualities does the Svetlana impart to the sound?


----------



## squid1980

I use 5U4G Svetlana (wing C) in my wa6. I like it. It have big stage more than mullard gz34 metal base but image mullard better a lot. So i always swap it up to genre of song. to me It very wroth it.


----------



## anomaly7

Hmm,
  Nice amps all.
  I'm new to the forum, having just ordered a set of ATH-AD700's that haven't yet arrived, I'm now trying to decide on a head amp. The Woo looks interesting, as does the Little Dot MKlll, the Cayin and the Vincent. Any recommendations on which to choose. I know I haven't ordered the "best" headphones, but it's possible someday I may upgrade, or not, and I'd like to get a head amp that gives me the flexibility of having room to grow with my headphones. I do think I'd prefer something with tubes, and something under a grand would be nice, new or used.
  Any recommendations would be great. I'd no idea there was such a wide variety of head amps to choose from out there.
   
  Thanks
  Dave


----------



## hodgjy

Those cans are low impedance, so it's best to not get an OTL amp, like the Woo 3.  If you decide on a tube amp, and want to keep those cans, consider getting a transformer coupled amp (the Woo 6 is an example of a transformer coupled amp).  OTL amps do better with high impedance cans.  I'm not familiar with the amplification pathway other brands of amps you listed, so maybe someone else can chime in.  
   
  As a side note, I think the way to go is to pick the cans first, and then the amp you want to drive those cans.  Since you have some cans coming, you can do this in my preferred order.  However, the benefits of more expensive amps are not fully realized on lower costing cans.  So, if you're 100% set on the ATH's, don't overspend on an amp.  There are many great amps out there that will make you super happy for $150 or less.  Some of the Little Dots fit this niche well.  OTOH, if you want to get a more expensive amp, it'll behoove you to explore some cans in a little higher price bracket.
  
  Quote: 





anomaly7 said:


> Hmm,
> Nice amps all.
> I'm new to the forum, having just ordered a set of ATH-AD700's that haven't yet arrived, I'm now trying to decide on a head amp. The Woo looks interesting, as does the Little Dot MKlll, the Cayin and the Vincent. Any recommendations on which to choose. I know I haven't ordered the "best" headphones, but it's possible someday I may upgrade, or not, and I'd like to get a head amp that gives me the flexibility of having room to grow with my headphones. I do think I'd prefer something with tubes, and something under a grand would be nice, new or used.
> Any recommendations would be great. I'd no idea there was such a wide variety of head amps to choose from out there.
> ...


----------



## anomaly7

Wow, great reply.
  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I was heretofore directionless, other than tubes, so at least now I have excluded OTL amps-


----------



## hodgjy

No problem!
   
  The more I thought about your inquiry, I think the Woo 6 would be something you should investigate more closely.  You said your budget is less than a grand and you wanted flexibility to expand and grow into new cans.  The Woo 6 fits all of that.  It lets you use low and high impedance cans effortlessly (even has a selector switch).  It's a very flexible amp and is highly thought of here.  I didn't go with the Woo 6 because it was slightly out of my price range, and I knew I wanted an OTL amp for my high impedance cans.  If I had a little more dough at the time, I might have gotten the 6.


----------



## Superfrag

Agreed. I had the Woo 6 for five months, then college happened. I used it with the AD900, A900LTD, A900Ti, W1000, AKG K701, DT880, Ultrasone HFI-780, and it was excellent with all of them. A great amp.


----------



## che15

I have The same AT that you have ardered and a WA6 , and they sound very nice to me , but I prefer the sound of my HD-650 . I also have a Musical Fidelity V-can that make my AT sound very sweat. I am in love with the WA6 and I think it is an amp that will work with almost any headphone out there. Good Luck
   
  Quote: 





>


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If you like the power of the Sylvania 7236, but want a little more "musical sound", perhaps you should look into finding a Tung-Sol 7236.  They are rare, but out there.  The Tung-Sol 5998 is a very nice, musical tube as well, but doesn't go as loud as the 7236.


 

 I actually have two matched pairs of Tung-Sol 7236s, that I got for a great price on eBay.  Needless to say, one pair remains boxed up and the other pair has taken ownership of two sockets in my WA22.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They offered the largest improvement of all the tube upgrades I've performed (even moreso than my 5U4G mesh and NU 6F8Gs).  Going from the stock 6080s to the TS 7236s was incredible.  Soundstage, detail, bass, separation, cleanliness of sound, etc. were all improved.
   
  I just ordered a pair of 6AS7G RCA black plates, since I'm curious what other power tubes have to offer before I experiment with 6SN7s.
   
  Also just picked up a pair of GEC 6080s.  Looks like I'll be having fun next weekend.


----------



## K_19

My 6SE is finally repaired and ready to ship off!  Kudos to Jack once again for fixing it at reasonable cost... can't wait to hear it fully functional, although it'll have to wait since I'll be out of the country for half a month from end of this week (bad timing).  But I'll definitely be able to listen to it once I get back early next month.
   
  Oh, and unfortunately it seems like I can no longer use the Sophia Princess 274B... as the original prototype/demo model it would have required a big overhaul to install the soft-start up circuit and I elected not to go for it as it would have cost more and take longer than I'd have liked.  Well, I COULD still use it (and I heard both of the previous owners of this unit indeed still did), but the Sophia would probably die relatively quickly.  So Jack recommended that I stick with non-directly heated rectifiers.  I'd assume this includes the 5U4G/5AR4/GZ34 and its variants... do you guys have any recommendations for non-directly heated rectifiers?  Preferably on warm and lush side since I'll be using it mainly with my HD800.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## TheWuss

the emission labs 5u4g has received great marks from what i've read...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I actually have two matched pairs of Tung-Sol 7236s, that I got for a great price on eBay.
> Also just picked up a pair of GEC 6080s.  Looks like I'll be having fun next weekend.


 

 Let us you what's your opinion on those GEC


  
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> the emission labs 5u4g has received great marks from what i've read...


 

 The EML mesh is my favorite on top of all rectifier I have tried, that include Sophia princess and EML solid plate


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> My 6SE is finally repaired and ready to ship off!  Kudos to Jack once again for fixing it at reasonable cost... can't wait to hear it fully functional, although it'll have to wait since I'll be out of the country for half a month from end of this week (bad timing).  But I'll definitely be able to listen to it once I get back early next month.
> 
> Oh, and unfortunately it seems like I can no longer use the Sophia Princess 274B... as the original prototype/demo model it would have required a big overhaul to install the soft-start up circuit and I elected not to go for it as it would have cost more and take longer than I'd have liked.  Well, I COULD still use it (and I heard both of the previous owners of this unit indeed still did), but the Sophia would probably die relatively quickly.  So Jack recommended that I stick with non-directly heated rectifiers.  I'd assume this includes the 5U4G/5AR4/GZ34 and its variants... do you guys have any recommendations for non-directly heated rectifiers?  Preferably on warm and lush side since I'll be using it mainly with my HD800.  Thanks in advance.


 

 the 5u4g is directly-heated but is much more tolerant with the value of the first cap,
  so it may be fine in your 6SE. ask jack to be sure. who knows what the first cap was
  used in the prototype. the 5r4gy is also directly-heated but also more tolerant with
  the value of the first cap. again, ask jack if this is alright.
   
  the 5ar4/gz34 are indirectly-heated and should tame some of that harshness that
  seems to creep up sometimes with the hd800. avoid the american 5v4g as they are
  generally harsh at the top. the english gz32, also indirectly-heated, may be  your
  best bet for the hd800. it has a sweet bloomy mid and a slightly soft top. the gz30
  or 5z4gt is also indirectly-heated and possibly the most neutral of the rectifiers
  in terms of sound presentation. this is true mainly because the wa6 and 6SE
  has a relatively low operating voltage point, but still sounds fantastic.
   
  the gz37 is also indirectly heated and one of my favorites. unfortunately, the fat-bottle
  which sounds great, is the same price as the 274b's... all of the fat bottle gz37/cv378
  are english made.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





takezo said:


> the gz37 is also indirectly heated and one of my favorites. unfortunately, the fat-bottle
> which sounds great, is the same price as the 274b's... all of the fat bottle gz37/cv378
> are english made.


 
  Please no offense here. I tried CV378 made by Mullard, it was ok but nothing special. EML mesh beat them easy almost in every department


----------



## takezo

hi, you may've misread my post. i meant to say that the fat-bottle is as expensive as
  the 274b's and as a separate point, the fat-bottle gz37 is one of my favorite rectifiers
  for it's own attributes, being a more romantic sound great for acoustic strings but not so for
  electronic instruments. also, it runs at 3A, which provides more max. dc ouput current
  and has a less internal B+ drop than the 274b's.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





takezo said:


> the 5u4g is directly-heated but is much more tolerant with the value of the first cap,
> so it may be fine in your 6SE. ask jack to be sure. who knows what the first cap was
> used in the prototype. the 5r4gy is also directly-heated but also more tolerant with
> the value of the first cap. again, ask jack if this is alright.
> ...


 

 Thanks Takezo, this is really helpful.  Looks like I got a lot of tube rolling to do! (including the drivers; I'd like to try some 6EW7's instead of 6DE7's I've been using all this time)  I'm going to check with Jack and see if 5U4G's are fine to use with my 6SE... I don't see why not though, as it even has "5U4G" engraved in its rectifier slot.  I'll probably unload the Sophia along with my WA6, then put the cost into hopefully the EML 5U4G and other tubes... I'll definitely try the Mullard GZ32 as I've liked Mullards in the past (though of 12AU7 variety) and it seems to be at a reasonable cost compared to the Sophia/EML.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Let us you what's your opinion on those GEC


 

 Will do.  I'll do a little comparison this weekend for the TS 7236, RCA 6AS7G black plate, and GEC 6080.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  BTW, welcome back from your little hiatus!  This place wasn't the same without you, man.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Just a quick update for anybody I might have concerned with my distortion comments:  I think this is a non-issue.  I buried the volume on it today and it stays cleaner than I have ever heard it in the past at those crazy high volumes.  Not perfect, but I believe I am hearing the limits of what the WA6 is capable of at such high output.  I still do hear the distortion I remarked about before, but it turns out it is really only in that one song, and sets in noticeably at about 2:00 on the dial.  This is a piano recording with a very complex and dense series of lower registers, and honestly even with the 6SN7 tubes the WA6 still does not do this one song it's full justice.  It could also be the headphones starting to cry uncle too.  The distortion basically sounds like what you would hear from small speakers when asked to reproduce bass at loud volumes.  A fuzzy, sort of farting noise whenever the piano hammer would strike on the lower notes.  I don't think the tubes are to blame for it.
   
  As for everything else, I strongly and fully endorse running 6SN7 tubes in the WA6.  It many respects it sounds as much as twice as good as before.  I can listen deeper into the music, hear more texture and subtle details, and marvel at the space given to each individual note in a recording.  The sound is also more refined, with sibilance all but gone in the system _finally_.  When I do hear it it's most definitely in the original recording, and the top end on the RCA tubes is so lush it smooths some of it out anyway.  I'm finding the sound of the RCA 6SN7GTB tubes very much to my liking as well now that they are breaking in.  I have yet to hear a song I didn't think was an improvement over what I was hearing before.  Their tonal balance lines up with my tastes well.  Not necessarily perfectly, but half the time I don't even know what those preferences are until I suddenly discover them through a change in equipment or tubes.  I have no desire to take them out of the tube sockets, which is about as good an endorsement as they can get I suppose.
   
  Ironically enough after saying that I DO have other tubes on the way, simply because I am enjoying exploring the new possibilities these tubes offer.  I set my sights on two targets:  a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT grey T-plate 1942 vintage (already won and on the way here), and an RCA VT-231 greyglass.  Then I'm calling it a day on tube buying.  Even if I upgrade amps these are desirable tubes I can take with me to whatever I upgrade too which is part of how I'm justifying spending the money.  I'll offer impressions when the Tung-Sols get here and have been broken in a bit.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just a quick update for anybody I might have concerned with my distortion comments:  I think this is a non-issue.  I buried the volume on it today and it stays cleaner than I have ever heard it in the past at those crazy high volumes.  Not perfect, but I believe I am hearing the limits of what the WA6 is capable of at such high output.  I still do hear the distortion I remarked about before, but it turns out it is really only in that one song, and sets in noticeably at about 2:00 on the dial.  This is a piano recording with a very complex and dense series of lower registers, and honestly even with the 6SN7 tubes the WA6 still does not do this one song it's full justice.  It could also be the headphones starting to cry uncle too.  The distortion basically sounds like what you would hear from small speakers when asked to reproduce bass at loud volumes.  A fuzzy, sort of farting noise whenever the piano hammer would strike on the lower notes.  I don't think the tubes are to blame for it.
> 
> As for everything else, I strongly and fully endorse running 6SN7 tubes in the WA6.  It many respects it sounds as much as twice as good as before.  I can listen deeper into the music, hear more texture and subtle details, and marvel at the space given to each individual note in a recording.  The sound is also more refined, with sibilance all but gone in the system _finally_.  When I do hear it it's most definitely in the original recording, and the top end on the RCA tubes is so lush it smooths some of it out anyway.  I'm finding the sound of the RCA 6SN7GTB tubes very much to my liking as well now that they are breaking in.  I have yet to hear a song I didn't think was an improvement over what I was hearing before.  Their tonal balance lines up with my tastes well.  Not necessarily perfectly, but half the time I don't even know what those preferences are until I suddenly discover them through a change in equipment or tubes.  I have no desire to take them out of the tube sockets, which is about as good an endorsement as they can get I suppose.
> 
> Ironically enough after saying that I DO have other tubes on the way, simply because I am enjoying exploring the new possibilities these tubes offer.  I set my sights on two targets:  a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT grey T-plate 1942 vintage (already won and on the way here), and an RCA VT-231 greyglass.  Then I'm calling it a day on tube buying.  Even if I upgrade amps these are desirable tubes I can take with me to whatever I upgrade too which is part of how I'm justifying spending the money.  I'll offer impressions when the Tung-Sols get here and have been broken in a bit.


 

 I've also noticed a very minute amount of distortion, but I'd guess that nearly 99% of the time it's attributed to the recording itself.  What may sound smooth on one audio setup may actually have a little bit of distortion on a revealing setup.
   
  BTW, you'll be back to tubes.  Oh yes, you will be back.  What if your favorite pair of tubes begin to fade away?  No soul, no matter how pure, can resist the lure of audio upgrades.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Will do.  I'll do a little comparison this weekend for the TS 7236, RCA 6AS7G black plate, and GEC 6080.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks. I was buying a new house, and busy packing and unpacking. Also out of internet for a month.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Also out of internet for a month.


 

 How was that, like a breath of fresh air, or did you suffer any withdrawal symptoms?


----------



## jax

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Thanks Takezo, this is really helpful.  Looks like I got a lot of tube rolling to do! (including the drivers; I'd like to try some 6EW7's instead of 6DE7's I've been using all this time)  I'm going to check with Jack and see if 5U4G's are fine to use with my 6SE... I don't see why not though, as it even has "5U4G" engraved in its rectifier slot.  I'll probably unload the Sophia along with my WA6, then put the cost into hopefully the EML 5U4G and other tubes... I'll definitely try the Mullard GZ32 as I've liked Mullards in the past (though of 12AU7 variety) and it seems to be at a reasonable cost compared to the Sophia/EML.


 

 I've been using an EML 5U4G for months in my WA6SEm - it's a great tube in that application.  I checked with Jack a while back.  This was his reply:
   
   
  Quote: 





> The EML 5U4G is absolutely compatible with the WA6SE, regardless what serial number is. There is nothing to modify and you can use it as normal.


 
   
   
  It is not advisable to use a 6SN7 with an octal adapter in an SE version of the WA6 (fine in the standard version).  It would likely result in a significantly shorter lifespan, according to Jack.  I asked if there were any possible way to modify it by changing resistors or caps.  This was his reply:
   
   
  Quote: 





> The WA6SE is a different design than the WA6. It uses much higher current
> and not suitable for the 6SN7. There is no mod that  make it compatible
> unless we downgrade it as a WA6.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I've also noticed a very minute amount of distortion, but I'd guess that nearly 99% of the time it's attributed to the recording itself.  What may sound smooth on one audio setup may actually have a little bit of distortion on a revealing setup.
> 
> BTW, you'll be back to tubes.  Oh yes, you will be back.  What if your favorite pair of tubes begin to fade away?  No soul, no matter how pure, can resist the lure of audio upgrades.


 
  The reason I was initially alarmed is because I know the distortion is not in the recording of this particular piece of music.  It sounds terrific on my (now in storage) speaker system.  It seems to be a unique case though, because everything else I listen to has been great so far.  Nothing is perfect I suppose.
   
  Honestly I should have stopped here with tubes, since I'm happy with these cheap 6SN7GTBs, but one always wonders what they are missing so I'm going after a couple of very well regarded tubes to see for myself.  I might just save them in case I land a better job and can suddenly afford a WA22.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The reason I was initially alarmed is because I know the distortion is not in the recording of this particular piece of music.  It sounds terrific on my (now in storage) speaker system.  It seems to be a unique case though, because everything else I listen to has been great so far.  Nothing is perfect I suppose.
> 
> Honestly I should have stopped here with tubes, since I'm happy with these cheap 6SN7GTBs, but one always wonders what they are missing so I'm going after a couple of very well regarded tubes to see for myself.  I might just save them in case I land a better job and can suddenly afford a WA22.


 

 Totally.  Try not to spend all your money on tubes, or else you'll never be able to buy the WA22!  I gotta tell you, there will be a day when I'll have spent more on tubes than what I paid for my WA22, but I guess the journey itself is more important than the ultimate goal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I just took out my TS 7236s and put in my newly acquired RCA 6AS7G black plates.  There is a tiny bit of 'buzzing' in the left tube, but I'm not too concerned since it's completely imperceptible even at the lowest possible volume while music is playing.  I definitely have to turn the volume up more while I'm listening, though.  What I used to listen to at 9 o'clock, I now listen to at ~10-11 o'clock.  What I listened to at 12 o'clock, I can now turn up to 2 o'clock.  That's also what I noticed when going from the stock tubes to my TS 7236s (vice versa, of course).
   
  At first I noticed no differences (the first song I always play is Comfortably Numb), but as the song went on, I began to pick up little differences.  For one, the sound is much smoother and relaxed.  Man it's hard to type this because I want to focus on the music... ahem... anyways... what was I saying?  Oh yes, the sound is much more smooth and very inviting.  The soundstage seems just a tad larger, but at the same time I feel like I'm more into the music.  There were details that I could hear before, but now it's like the volume has been turned up just a tad on them.  The midrange is more emphasized, which is something I really like, as the highs are relaxed a bit.  This is definitely a great match for late-night listening after a long day at work or just chilling out with a beer or two.
   
  The bass is a tad leaner, but it's not truly a negative since the music blends better as a whole now.  I've yet to test the 6AS7Gs with movies, but I guess it could go either way.
   
  All in all, a very worthy 'upgrade' to the 7236s, depending on what your setup consists of.  I could see these taking full-time occupancy in my WA22.
   
  Stay tuned folks, because soon I will be taking posession of a nice pair of GEC 6080s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Almost forgot... here's a nice little picture:
   

   
  As I think about it more and more, this is kind of what I imagined the 'tube sound' to be like.  This is my very first expensive audio setup, and very first tube setup, and I came into this expecting something completely different from the solid state I was used to.  Well, I'm definitely getting closer to what I thought of and perceived as perfect tube audio.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jax said:


> It is not advisable to use a 6SN7 with an octal adapter in an SE version of the WA6 (fine in the standard version).  It would likely result in a significantly shorter lifespan, according to Jack.  I asked if there were any possible way to modify it by changing resistors or caps.  This was his reply:


 

 2359glenn on eBay says The WA6-SE needs a resistor and capacitor in the 6SN7 adapter, which he installs.  He can also make them to fit the old WA6 with the small 25mm tube holes, while the adapter Jack sells wont fit.  I'm in the process of ordering a set.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> 2359glenn on eBay says The WA6-SE needs a resistor and capacitor in the 6SN7 adapter, which he installs.  He can also make them to fit the old WA6 with the small 25mm tube holes, while the adapter Jack sells wont fit.  I'm in the process of ordering a set.


 
   
  You mean THE 2359glenn from eBay?!?!  I'm just letting you know what Jack Woo told me.  I confess, that I must have missed the memo that 2359glenn had proclaimed otherwise and sold the stuff to back up the proclamation right there on eBay, where you can also purchase the secret to becoming invisible in a crowd for only $19.95 (starting bid)  
   
  Jack, by the way, did not say that 6SN7's would not work, just that their lifespan would be significantly decreased and it is not advised.  The response I quoted was from my follow-up email to Jack which specifically asked him if the WA6SE could be modified in any way via resistors or caps to utilize 6SN7's without the risk of a premature failure. In case I did not make it very clear, this is just the SE (2-chassis model) I was asking about and the either version of the WA6 single-chassis.  
   
  Perhaps 2539glenn from eBay knows more than Jack about his own product, or it may simply compromise the performance of the amp overall to such a degree that Jack wouldn't consider it.  Who knows; it could be as valuable as the secret to becoming invisible.  I have no clue myself.  The only way to find out is to ask Jack, which, in all seriousness (tongue removed from cheek) might be a good idea if you have an SE and are taking a risk on good 6$N7 tubes.  Or I guess you could also ask 2359glenn though you may have to go through his people.  I suppose I'd keep in mind that 2539glenn has a direct interest and gain by selling you on his adapter, whereas Jack sells the same adapter sans real or imaginary resistor/capacitors, that may or may not save your tube, and may or may not make your amp sound like the stereo from a '75 Pacer pasted to your ears.   Jack has nothing to gain by telling you it doesn't work, and everything to gain if it makes an improvement to an already great amp.  I don't know, from the few amps of his that I've heard, he seems to know what he is doing.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jax said:


> You mean THE 2359glenn from eBay?!?!


 

 And I'm just letting you know what the tube adapter vendor from eBay said.  I don't know which is right, and I'm not saying one or the other is wrong.  I have the original WA6 that can use 6SN7, other than the fact that Jack's adapters wont fit my older amp because the tube holes are too small.  So, I went looking elsewhere.
   
  This is the reply I got from the eBay guy:
   
    
  Quote: 





> Dear larryganz,
> 
> Hello
> Yes I make these adapters on special order for $39.00
> ...


 
   
  It seems like he's done this before.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jax said:


> You mean THE 2359glenn from eBay?!?!


 
  Glenn has a good reputation and is recommended by a number of people here.  Childish remarks like this make it hard to take your statements seriously.


----------



## grokit

He does have a 100% positive feedback rating (492), and those adapters are all he has listed.
   
  As opposed to the "invisible" guy, who is at 96.8%


----------



## jax

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> And I'm just letting you know what the tube adapter vendor from eBay said.  I don't know which is right, and I'm not saying one or the other is wrong.  I have the original WA6 that can use 6SN7, other than the fact that Jack's adapters wont fit my older amp because the tube holes are too small.  So, I went looking elsewhere.
> 
> This is the reply I got from the eBay guy:
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I did get that you were offering it up as information and a resource, and I was providing a response to what you were offering since it seemed to be in direct response to what I had posted - In a nutshell: I would respect what Jack Woo had to say about his own amp rather than what 2359glenn from eBay who sells adapters that seem to contradict his advice. Call me silly.  It seems like Jack has done this before. 
   
  Glad to hear you are just purchasing for a WA6 and not an SE, and thanks for clarifying that point, Larry.  Seems like a good resource and at a good price for WA6 owners.  On ebay there's also a Taiwan resource making those adapters as well for a reasonable price if you don't mind the wait of shipping from there (I know a few folks who've been happy with adapters from this seller).  They may not fit on the smaller holes of your version without an extension.  I purchased similar adapters for my Modwright Transporter from a guy in FL who also does a fine job and was around the same price as the infamous 2359glenn of eBay.  Bolder cables also makes adapters which he uses some fancy wires and reportedly very fine attention to soldering and detail, but at a much higher price.  No magic resistors offered in any of those options though.
   
  I cannot speak for the WA6, but in the Transporter I've rolled quite a few different tube variants through there - the Shuguang Black Treasures are a favorite even over TSRs.  YMMV.  Another potentially excellent tube at a far more modest cost than 6SN7's are 7N7 variants via an LOctal adapter - WARNING: No idea whether this may work in any Woo circuit, but it does work in the MWTP circuit that otherwise would use 6SN7 variants.  May be worth looking into if no one has already.   Also Russian variants on 6SN7  - 6N8S metal base - again, check for compatibility.  Just a few more possibilities.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Glenn has a good reputation and is recommended by a number of people here.  Childish remarks like this make it hard to take your statements seriously.


 

 Well then don't take me seriously.  I try to take this stuff with a sense of humor whenever possible.  Humor goes well with most things in life, especially the Internet.  Regarding Glenn's fine reputation, which I certainly did not mean to tarnish (to be clear I was just poking fun - hence the tongue-in-cheek remark) - but I'd say the Dissappearing Secrets dude has a pretty good reputation among those who've purchased his product, and if you go over to Audiogon you'll find a fellow there, by the name of Geoff Kait, selling bottles of colored pebbles and telephone calls, and plastic flowers, and plastic digital clocks made in China...all that enhance the performance of your system.  He's got a 100% feedback rating with over 1000 feedbacks.  Now if you want to take that seriously, have at it my friend.  Regarding my response to 2359glenn of eBay vs Jack on the subject of Jack's amps - that was entirely sincere.  I just found it funny that someone cited "2359glenn of eBay" as a resource for....well, for anything.  No offense to ol'glenn, but it just occurs to me as amusing on face value.  I don't know 2359glenn and have never used his dandy adapters - I'm sure they do the job just swell.  I'd still defer to Jack on the matter of the SE.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Jax you are on fire tonight my friend.


----------



## Seamaster

Jax, my friend. Before the whole adapter thing started, I did ask Jack to make adapters for my WA22, he said no. I fully understand why Jack said no, because he has too many things and customers to deal with day in and day out. Small matter like this is not his priority. Building amps is his main focus. As right now more and more people want/ ask for adapters, then now Jack start to make them. Back in the days, SinglePower was charging people $99~$120 USD for adapters......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have personally deal with Glenn many times, and he never let me down. I even let him borrow my tubes to try them out. He is building preamp, power amp, also headphone amps at home as hobby. He knows what he is doing, and he knows tube stuff.
   
  For those adapters, quality and workmanship should be put in first place, you don't want them to go wrong you know, ever. So a few bucks extra could be justified.
   
  Peace my friend


----------



## jax

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Jax, my friend. Before the whole adapter thing started, I did ask Jack to make adapters for my WA22, he said no. I fully understand why Jack said no, because he has too many things and customers to deal with day in and day out. Small matter like this is not his priority. Building amps is his main focus. As right now more and more people want/ ask for adapters, then now Jack start to make them. Back in the days, SinglePower was charging people $99~$120 USD for adapters......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, Griffin and Gil.....
   
  Just to make it clear - I did not ask Jack to make any adapters for me.  I also did not ask him whether his adapters worked.  I simply asked about the possibility of using 6SN7's in the SE.  I could see no reason why it would be in his interests to say that he would not advise it if it actually worked well and did not compromise tubes and or amp.  I tend to err on the cautious side and would put my money on the manufacturer of the product rather than a DIY aftermarket parts guy.  
   
  The options with Glenn's SE adapters are this as I see them:
   
  1. They work like a charm and Jack is in the dark or has some hidden agenda about why he's advising that such a solution was not advisable.
   
  2. They work fine but do nothing at all to extend the otherwise shortened life of the tubes when used in a circuit that stresses them as much as the SE may.  
   
  3. They work fine but compromise the performance of the 6SN7 tube in the amp.
   
  4. A combination of 2 & 3 
   
  Again, good to hear Glenn does a fine job at a reasonable price.  Sorry to poke fun at his expense, but the reference really occurred to me as amusing at face value.  I thought it was pretty clear I was being a wise ass and that my comments should be taken in that light, but apologies if it came off as a serious criticism of Glenn's work - it was not intended as such.  None of this has convinced me that I should trust Glenn over Jack though.  That would most certainly not be my inclination.  I don't want to risk a $200-300 pair of tubes over it.  But that's just me. 
   
  It would be interesting to hear from someone who actually has used 6SN7's in an SE with Glenn's adapters over a long period of time.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> It seems like he's done this before.


 

 He has 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I recently got some 6SN7 adapter from Glenn for my 6SE and couldn't be happier. 

  I've only had them for about 10 days, but they are a major improvement over 6DE7, 6EW7, and 6FD7. I should add that I have changed the Cathode caps to 470uf/200v, which I'm 95% sure is required for 6SN7 in addition to the adapters with resistors. I'll report any irregularities I experience for those of you who are cautious. So far it has been nothing but pure pleasure


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jax said:


> No offense to ol'glenn, but it just occurs to me as amusing on face value.


 

 The trouble with the internet is people cannot hear the tone of the reply.  Your words sounded mocking in a conversation that was otherwise serious in tone.  However, I should have kept my opinion to myself and apologize for stating it, but at least now I know how your comment was intended to be taken.


----------



## Xcalibur255

And on another note, I have my TS 6SN7GT T-plates.  One tube is 1942 and the other 1945 both in excellent condition.  Fresh into the amp they sound much more detailed than the RCAs did when they were new, so I'm hopeful for a really great sound when they are broken in.  The tonal balance is definitely different from the RCAs, much more neutral and an overall increase in treble energy.  They don't seem like they are fatiguing at the top end, but vocals are leaner than I am used to hearing.  They definitely need break-in though because the soundstage feels bottled up and and the whole lower midrange seems like it needs to blossom so to speak.  Great bass though.  Not as much weight as the RCA tubes, which is bad in my case, but the speed and control are already impressive.  Piano has nice bite.  The notes sound a bit sterile, but it is certainly not fair to judge when the tubes have less than an hour of use on them.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> He has
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good point, and I think if you go back to April or later you will see a post by Jack saying that he has modified the WA6SE to except the 6SN7's that he is building now.
   
  I can't blame JAX for not wanting to go to a outside mod, I have read to many post about this sort of thing were something goes wrong and about 2 months later there trying to sell that amp.
   
  As I have said before I would love to try a pair of my TSRP 6SN7GT's in my WA6SE, but knowing what I do know about the WA6SE I will not. Yes I could swap out the caps but if I ever sell my WA6SE I would have to note what I have done and that could hurt the resale price.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The trouble with the internet is people cannot hear the tone of the reply.  Your words sounded mocking in a conversation that was otherwise serious in tone.  However, I should have kept my opinion to myself and apologize for stating it, but at least now I know how your comment was intended to be taken.


 

 It's all good.  I took no offense.  No apologies necessary. I don't take this stuff that seriously - I do enjoy it, and like to share opinions, and I know I'm a wise ass sometimes and have developed a thick skin around that as not everyone appreciates it.  I get it. I also am well aware of the drawbacks of Internet and email discussions.  I also make the same kinds of assumptions and mistakes.  No sweat, really.  
   
  I'm very interested to hear more from GroundZero since they're using the SE adapters.  I'd really curious about longevity - so I guess I'll have to check back in a year or two.


----------



## David.M

nice and beautiful GroundZero


----------



## Zombie_X

Well guys I got my RCA 6AS7G tube in yesterday. Popped that big boy in there and was like "whoah! it's so lush!". Man it makes my gear sound warmer and fuller. Much richer mids less treble . Totally smooth and fluid sound that compliments the DT990's rather bright sound character.
   
  Onward to test Tung-Sol 6AS7G's and 7236's!
   
  Any recommendations guys? I'm still a novice at tube picking? If anything I'd like it to make the system sounder much fuller with very smooth treble. I do require it to have good soundstaging characteristics though.


----------



## K_19

Well, on Takezo's recommendation, I bought some tubes and just received a used GE-rebranded Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 from a seller in ebay (got it within two days since he lives across town), tested at 90/90...
   
  And it was an excellent recommendation as far as my HD800 is concerned!  On my stock, old version WA6 It definitely smooths and calms the sharp highs/lower treble of the HD800 (not completely of course, but ones with a lot of them are now much, MUCH more bearable, to comfortable listening levels).  The very top end is still extended well enough and it also adds a right tint of typical Mullard warmth that HD800 also needs, but without being too laid back... it's still quite energetic.  It does roll off the lowbass slightly compared to the Sophia 274B (not a big deal for genres I listen to) and also has slightly less soundstage but in adding warmth and calming down the lower treble a great deal, the benefits GREATLY outweight the costs for me.   I have to say, in hindsight, Sophia 274B may not have been the best match for my stock (non-PDPS) WA6 for HD800... it emphasizes the already peaky lower treble of the HD800 too much to my ears.  Perhaps it is different for PDPS WA6 units and 6SEs, but unfortunately I won't be able to try it on my particular unit of 6SE... oh well.  Time to sell the thing.
   
  Still got a 6EW7 coming my way, and I haven't even received the WA6SE yet!  I think the best is yet to come for my rig.


----------



## hodgjy

I really like the RCA 6AS7G.  It is very warm and romantic.  However, they are often quite noisy.  I have 4 of them, and only one of them doesn't make a low volume, high frequency pitch.  My quietest RCA is a black plate CRC JAN, which doesn't make the high frequency pitch, but it still has a higher noise floor.   My three noisy ones, with the high pitch, are grey plates.  I don't think it's a coincidence.  There must be something very subtly different between the black plate and the grey plate other than color.  I can still use the gray plates because the pitch isn't noticeable during music, but is noticeable when the music isn't playing.  When I put my ear next to the tubes, the pitch is actually some sort of perturbation in the tube itself that manifests itself microphonically into my headphones.  Maybe they will settle down with more break in as I've only used each tube for a few hours.
   
  On a related side note, I've found my WA3 to be quite sensitive to tubes.  Some tubes just don't play well in it.  The RCA gray plates are one noticeable example.  Tung-Sols are very quiet in my amp (no hum or high pitch), but are sometimes microphonic.  It's all just tube voodoo.  EH 6922 made a horrible hum, but others, like Sylvania, are dead quiet.
   
  Where did you find your Tung-Sol 6AS7G?  I'm interested in picking some more up, but they are extremely rare it seems.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Well guys I got my RCA 6AS7G tube in yesterday. Popped that big boy in there and was like "whoah! it's so lush!". Man it makes my gear sound warmer and fuller. Much richer mids less treble . Totally smooth and fluid sound that compliments the DT990's rather bright sound character.
> 
> Onward to test Tung-Sol 6AS7G's and 7236's!
> 
> Any recommendations guys? I'm still a novice at tube picking? If anything I'd like it to make the system sounder much fuller with very smooth treble. I do require it to have good soundstaging characteristics though.


----------



## Zombie_X

I got Tung-Sol 6AS7G from a friend who has old radio equipment. It was free actually. I have to test it though to make sure it's good. The 7236 was from craigslist actually.
   
  EDIT: For the RCA 6AS7G, I get no hum or hiss or the pitch you described at all. Odd, well who knows..
   
  EDIT 2: I find that the "ONIX XCD-99 + DAC252.2 (With Mullard E88CC) + WA3+ + Bugel Boy 6DJ8 + RCA 6AS7G" made the DT990 600Ohm sing with Opeth's Watershed album!!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I really like the RCA 6AS7G.  It is very warm and romantic.  However, they are often quite noisy.  I have 4 of them, and only one of them doesn't make a low volume, high frequency pitch.  My quietest RCA is a black plate CRC JAN, which doesn't make the high frequency pitch, but it still has a higher noise floor.   My three noisy ones, with the high pitch, are grey plates.  I don't think it's a coincidence.  There must be something very subtly different between the black plate and the grey plate other than color.  I can still use the gray plates because the pitch isn't noticeable during music, but is noticeable when the music isn't playing.  When I put my ear next to the tubes, the pitch is actually some sort of perturbation in the tube itself that manifests itself microphonically into my headphones.  Maybe they will settle down with more break in as I've only used each tube for a few hours.
> 
> On a related side note, I've found my WA3 to be quite sensitive to tubes.  Some tubes just don't play well in it.  The RCA gray plates are one noticeable example.  Tung-Sols are very quiet in my amp (no hum or high pitch), but are sometimes microphonic.  It's all just tube voodoo.  EH 6922 made a horrible hum, but others, like Sylvania, are dead quiet.
> 
> Where did you find your Tung-Sol 6AS7G?  I'm interested in picking some more up, but they are extremely rare it seems.


 

 I got a pair of RCA 6AS7G black plates a few days ago, and one of them has that low volume, high frequency pitch you're talking about.  You don't hear it when music is playing, but once a song ends, it's very noticeable and really draws you away from your listening session.
   
  Tonight I dropped in my newly acquired GEC 6080s.  They are dead silent with no music playing, and they have the magic of the RCA 6AS7Gs.  I've only listened to a couple of songs so far, but I can tell these are going to stay in my amp indefinitely.  It's like taking the great bass of my TS 7236s and adding in the warmness and intriguing sound of the 6AS7Gs, with just a slightly larger soundstage.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  You really feel like you're 'there' in the song.  Towards the end of Comfortably Numb, during that second guitar solo, I had a moment where I felt like I was in the music.
   
  Also, I don't know if this is related to pins or whatnot, but even with my 7236s and the 6AS7Gs, I've been noticing just a very slight off-centered sound.  It was like the voices were just a tad more on the right channel, and I thought it was just my ears.  But with the GECs, (knock on wood) the sound seems perfectly centered.  With this newfound 'centering', the sibilance also seems to be tamed a bit further.


----------



## hodgjy

I think I just have some weird quirks with my RCA gray plates.  They might go away with more burn in.  Is yours a black or grey plate?  My black plate is a nice tube.
   
  The 7236 is a nice tube.  It's almost solid-state sounding, but not in a bad way.  It's the bass champion, but it's definitely not as warm as 6AS7G variants. 
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I got Tung-Sol 6AS7G from a friend who has old radio equipment. It was free actually. I have to test it though to make sure it's good. The 7236 was from craigslist actually.
> 
> EDIT: For the RCA 6AS7G, I get no hum or hiss or the pitch you described at all. Odd, well who knows..
> 
> EDIT 2: I find that the "ONIX XCD-99 + DAC252.2 (With Mullard E88CC) + WA3+ + Bugel Boy 6DJ8 + RCA 6AS7G" made the DT990 600Ohm sing with Opeth's Watershed album!!


----------



## hodgjy

I PM'd Skylab about the RCAs, and he said he also experienced some high pitches that may or may not go away.  At first I thought I had back luck or was going crazy, but it seems like a pretty common problem.  It's a shame, because otherwise they sound really good.  But, you're right.  It is annoying to hear that sound between tracks.
   
  Right now I'm thinking of trying a GE 6AS7GA because they're dirt cheap at $5 to $8, depending where you look.  For those low prices, it might be fun to try.
   
  I have a Tung-Sol 5998 that is absolutely wonderful, and I managed to score a Chatham 6AS7G, which is another wonderful tube.  There was a great analogy somewhere here that equated your favorite tubes to your favorite family dog.  Eventually, it's going to die and you need to find a replacement.  I'm hoping my Tung-Sol, Chatham, and my one good RCA survive long enough before I get upgrade-itis.  I love my amp, but if I can't find replacement tubes at decent prices, that might be my reason to upgrade!!!!
  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I got a pair of RCA 6AS7G black plates a few days ago, and one of them has that low volume, high frequency pitch you're talking about.  You don't hear it when music is playing, but once a song ends, it's very noticeable and really draws you away from your listening session.
> 
> Tonight I dropped in my newly acquired GEC 6080s.  They are dead silent with no music playing, and they have the magic of the RCA 6AS7Gs.  I've only listened to a couple of songs so far, but I can tell these are going to stay in my amp indefinitely.  It's like taking the great bass of my TS 7236s and adding in the warmness and intriguing sound of the 6AS7Gs, with just a slightly larger soundstage.
> 
> ...


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I PM'd Skylab about the RCAs, and he said he also experienced some high pitches that may or may not go away.  At first I thought I had back luck or was going crazy, but it seems like a pretty common problem.  It's a shame, because otherwise they sound really good.  But, you're right.  It is annoying to hear that sound between tracks.
> 
> Right now I'm thinking of trying a GE 6AS7GA because they're dirt cheap at $5 to $8, depending where you look.  For those low prices, it might be fun to try.
> 
> I have a Tung-Sol 5998 that is absolutely wonderful, and I managed to score a Chatham 6AS7G, which is another wonderful tube.  There was a great analogy somewhere here that equated your favorite tubes to your favorite family dog.  Eventually, it's going to die and you need to find a replacement.  I'm hoping my Tung-Sol, Chatham, and my one good RCA survive long enough before I get upgrade-itis.  I love my amp, but if I can't find replacement tubes at decent prices, that might be my reason to upgrade!!!!


 

 I know what you mean, man.  I've already started thinking about buying 'back-up' pairs of the GECs, although that may get pretty expensive.  Here we are, finally in possession of that perfect vacuum tube and we immediately think about the day it'll die.  Head-Fi, what have you done to me?


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think I just have some weird quirks with my RCA gray plates.  They might go away with more burn in.  Is yours a black or grey plate?  My black plate is a nice tube.
> 
> The 7236 is a nice tube.  It's almost solid-state sounding, but not in a bad way.  It's the bass champion, but it's definitely not as warm as 6AS7G variants.


 

 It's a black plate I believe. You mean the plates going up the middle of the tube where it glows, correct?


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  I was a perfectly happy individual before the internet.
   
  Quote:  





>





> Head-Fi, what have you done to me?


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  Those plates are either a dark charcoal color, or a darkish grey.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> It's a black plate I believe. You mean the plates going up the middle of the tube where it glows, correct?


----------



## Zombie_X

Yup then it's a black plate one.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I've been able to spend more time with my GEC 6080s (sounds like I'm dating them or something... heh), and I stand by my original statement that these are incredible tubes.  They may actually be the final pair of power tubes I buy for my WA22.  I've tried different types of music and pretty much everything sounds great.  I think I'm getting closer to the perfect combination of tubes with my WA22 and D7000s, without the need for EQ.
   
  On a semi-related note, I'll be bidding on some RCA VT-231 grey glass soon.  I hope I can snag a good pair for a decent price.
   
  BTW, if you're a little strapped for cash and can't afford new tubes, there's no better alternative than a few glasses of beer.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> BTW, if you're a little strapped for cash and can't afford new tubes, there's no better alternative than a few glasses of beer.


 

 You're reaching tube nirvana. I'll drink to that! I need a GEC brew now!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're reaching tube nirvana. I'll drink to that! I need a GEC brew now!


 

 GEC + IPA = Nirvana (not the band, but close).


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Tung Sols are breaking in nicely, and are the final nail in the coffin on my opinion of the 6SN7.  I truly do understand the angle Jack has with his products, going with a good/better/best lineup as any good businessman would.  However, after hearing the 6SN7 tube in the WA6 my strongest thought is that the amp should just be designed to use this tube in the first place, or a close equivalent like the 6F8G.  I could never go back to the 6DE7 tube family now, they sound bad in nearly all respects by comparison.  Just a lifeless, dull sound that is harsh up top and lacking any kind of depth or inner resolution.  The Tung Sols 6SN7GTs have astonishing detail, more than I thought this amp could have ever been capable of offering.  If I owned a WA5 or a WA22 I wouldn't be so shocked, but I bought the cheap Woo and man the detail and resolution I'm hearing now is something else.  All this with a rectifier I paid $11 for too.  It's not all roses though.  They are dead neutral and balanced tonally, but this isn't entirely to my liking.  It is as though the emotion of the music isn't being conveyed, replaced by an analytical quality.  Basically this is what I would expect a first rate solid state amp to sound like, where as the RCA tubes are pretty much the sound I was imagining when I first got interested in tubes.  I prefer the latter, but the incredible detail the Tung Sols offer has its own appeal.  The only place where they reall don't excel is with some female vocals, they just can't convey the emotion of that range well.  It doesn't sound bad at all, it just lacks soul so to speak.  Male vocals fare better, and instrumental is fantastic.  Listening into each note is easier than ever.  I'm surprised to find I'm not completely liking piano on them though.  The sound is technically excellent, but I've discovered I like some warmth there too.  Not a fault of the Tung Sol tubes, as they are merely not matching up to personal preferences in this case which isn't really their fault.
   
  Possibly the most remarkable thing is how refined the top end is on the Tung Sols.  The advice everybody kept giving me during my battle with harshness and sibilance was I needed to get different headphones.  Well, with the 6SN7 tubes I now genuinely like the K701s.  There isn't a harsh note in sight anymore, and I don't have to fear wincing from sibilance.  The highs are not rolled off at all (they are on the RCA tubes), there is just complete control over the signal that prevents harshness from rearing its head.  I don't really think the Tung Sols are a good match for the K701s because they emphasize the dry sounding character of those headphones, but if these were the only tubes I could use I certainly wouldn't be unhappy like I was before.  I think the Tung Sols would match very well with the Beyer T1 or other headphone that is just slightly warm. 
   
  The RCA VT-231 Greyglass is my final tube to pursue.  I've got a really good feeling about them and think they might be the magic bullet for the K701s to sound just like I want them.


----------



## Zombie_X

Can the WA3+ use 6336A tube types at all? They look the same about...


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The Tung Sols are breaking in nicely, and are the final nail in the coffin on my opinion of the 6SN7.  I truly do understand the angle Jack has with his products, going with a good/better/best lineup as any good businessman would.  However, after hearing the 6SN7 tube in the WA6 my strongest thought is that the amp should just be designed to use this tube in the first place, or a close equivalent like the 6F8G.  I could never go back to the 6DE7 tube family now, they sound bad in nearly all respects by comparison.  Just a lifeless, dull sound that is harsh up top and lacking any kind of depth or inner resolution.  The Tung Sols 6SN7GTs have astonishing detail, more than I thought this amp could have ever been capable of offering.  If I owned a WA5 or a WA22 I wouldn't be so shocked, but I bought the cheap Woo and man the detail and resolution I'm hearing now is something else.  All this with a rectifier I paid $11 for too.  It's not all roses though.  They are dead neutral and balanced tonally, but this isn't entirely to my liking.  It is as though the emotion of the music isn't being conveyed, replaced by an analytical quality.  Basically this is what I would expect a first rate solid state amp to sound like, where as the RCA tubes are pretty much the sound I was imagining when I first got interested in tubes.  I prefer the latter, but the incredible detail the Tung Sols offer has its own appeal.  The only place where they reall don't excel is with some female vocals, they just can't convey the emotion of that range well.  It doesn't sound bad at all, it just lacks soul so to speak.  Male vocals fare better, and instrumental is fantastic.  Listening into each note is easier than ever.  I'm surprised to find I'm not completely liking piano on them though.  The sound is technically excellent, but I've discovered I like some warmth there too.  Not a fault of the Tung Sol tubes, as they are merely not matching up to personal preferences in this case which isn't really their fault.
> 
> Possibly the most remarkable thing is how refined the top end is on the Tung Sols.  The advice everybody kept giving me during my battle with harshness and sibilance was I needed to get different headphones.  Well, with the 6SN7 tubes I now genuinely like the K701s.  There isn't a harsh note in sight anymore, and I don't have to fear wincing from sibilance.  The highs are not rolled off at all (they are on the RCA tubes), there is just complete control over the signal that prevents harshness from rearing its head.  I don't really think the Tung Sols are a good match for the K701s because they emphasize the dry sounding character of those headphones, but if these were the only tubes I could use I certainly wouldn't be unhappy like I was before.  I think the Tung Sols would match very well with the Beyer T1 or other headphone that is just slightly warm.
> 
> The RCA VT-231 Greyglass is my final tube to pursue.  I've got a really good feeling about them and think they might be the magic bullet for the K701s to sound just like I want them.


 

 I can emphatize with you on the occasional harshness and sibilance, although I'm using the National Union 6F8Gs with my D7000s.  It seems like they sometimes have an artificial and lifeless quality which draws you away from the music, depending on what you're listening to.  I also have a pretty good feeling that the RCA VT-231 grey glass will be the end-all be-all of driver tubes.


----------



## David.M

congratz to Xcalibur255 for getting rid of all of his sibilance & harshness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  edit: what the hell is a little dot tube owner doing in a Woo Audio thread? **calls Phillip Banks from The Fresh Prince** and gets himself thrown out.  Unless it's okay for you guys to let me stay?


----------



## hodgjy

You'd have to check with Jack on that one, but the 6336A draws twice the amps and plate current as the 6AS7 family (including 5998).
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Can the WA3+ use 6336A tube types at all? They look the same about...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I've been able to spend more time with my GEC 6080s (sounds like I'm dating them or something... heh), and I stand by my original statement that these are incredible tubes.  They may actually be the final pair of power tubes I buy for my WA22.


 

 No, no way, not your last pair of tube. Wait until you grow out of D7000 like say, LCD-2. Then your wallet start to dodge new pair of GEC 6AS7G brown base


----------



## Xcalibur255

Interesting, I just noticed that the older of my TS tubes (1942) has copper grid posts, and the 1945 tube does not (they are silver colored).  I don't suppose this matters any but you never know.  I'm not sure if this counts as identical construction or not to be honest.  If anybody has an opinion on this they could offer I'd appreciate it.
   
  I should clarify that if the original recording is harsh or sibilant it still sounds that way on these tubes, often tamed to a certain extent but things that sound bad still bite a bit.  One cannot fault the system for shortcomings in the source material though.  With the 6DE7/6FD7 tubes it seemed like the source material had to be perfectly recorded to not make me wince, so this is a huge improvement overall.  The RCA 6SN7GTB tubes, on the other hand, made things that were inherently sibilant sound smooth which is something I really like about them.  They do so without sounding bad on well recorded material too, though all around they don't match the crystalline detail of the TS tubes.  I'm hoping the VT-231s combine these traits, detail and smoothness, to make one tube to rule them all.


----------



## TheAudioDude

One tube to rule them all
  One tube to find them
  One tube to bring them all
  And in the darkness bind them
   

   
  My preciousss....


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Interesting, I just noticed that the older of my TS tubes (1942) has copper grid posts, and the 1945 tube does not (they are silver colored).  I don't suppose this matters any but you never know.  I'm not sure if this counts as identical construction or not to be honest.  If anybody has an opinion on this they could offer I'd appreciate it.
> 
> I should clarify that if the original recording is harsh or sibilant it still sounds that way on these tubes, often tamed to a certain extent but things that sound bad still bite a bit.  One cannot fault the system for shortcomings in the source material though.  With the 6DE7/6FD7 tubes it seemed like the source material had to be perfectly recorded to not make me wince, so this is a huge improvement overall.  The RCA 6SN7GTB tubes, on the other hand, made things that were inherently sibilant sound smooth which is something I really like about them.  They do so without sounding bad on well recorded material too, though all around they don't match the crystalline detail of the TS tubes.  I'm hoping the VT-231s combine these traits, detail and smoothness, to make one tube to rule them all.


 

 what coupling capacitor is being used in your wa6? is it the original small yellow caps?
  or the v-cap? if you enjoy liquid smooth and bloomy mids with polite highs, i'd
  recommend you change out the coupling caps to the jensen copper foil paper in oil caps
  rated at 0.15 uf/ 630v. this will forever make you amp retain that characteristic
  regardless of tubes being used. it doesn't present the resolution of the v-caps but
  much better than the stock yellow caps wooaudio uses. they are about $27 each.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The amp is completely stock, so it would be the yellow caps.  Modding is kind of the final frontier for me since I do not trust myself with a soldering iron and I live a ways from anybody who could help, but that hasn't stopped the idea from crossing my mind a time or two.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys, I've been thinking of upgrading from a WA3+ to a WA2. Do you think it's worth it or should I just wait? If I do plan to upgrade, I will be selling my WA3+.
   
  I switched my Bugle Boys out back to the stock JAN 6922's and I find I get more mids... hrm it even sounds better with the JAN. Well when I got the Bugle Boys the seller said they weren't tested, so maybe they are dying on me... Well time to replace them!!


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey guys, I've been thinking of upgrading from a WA3+ to a WA2. Do you think it's worth it or should I just wait? If I do plan to upgrade, I will be selling my WA3+.


 

 Zombie_X
  the upgrade bug has you, huh?
  i guess if all or most of your headphones are high impedance, then OTL makes a lot of sense.
  if you don't plan on going balanced, then WA2 is probably about as good as you're going to get, or that's my guess.
  i wish i could say i've heard the WA2.  i haven't.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey guys, I've been thinking of upgrading from a WA3+ to a WA2. Do you think it's worth it or should I just wait? If I do plan to upgrade, I will be selling my WA3+.
> 
> I switched my Bugle Boys out back to the stock JAN 6922's and I find I get more mids... hrm it even sounds better with the JAN. Well when I got the Bugle Boys the seller said they weren't tested, so maybe they are dying on me... Well time to replace them!!


 

 Exxpecting to order the Roc this week. If you can wait I will let you know how it compares to my Woo6se


----------



## hodgjy

Can't give any advice about upgrading.  I suggest going to a meet and listening to various amps to decide.  The jump from low-fi to mid-fi is cheaper and more of a drastic jump from mid fi to higher-mid-fi or hi-fi.  Eventually, the law of diminishing returns kicks in.
   
  Also, about your Bugle Boys....it's possible they are dying...it's also possible that they are just smooth, laid back tubes.  They are known to tame the mids and relieve a lot of strident tones.  Perhaps you're just a mid head?  And to sound pessimistic, many of the vintage tubes have been counterfeited...including Bugle Boys.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey guys, I've been thinking of upgrading from a WA3+ to a WA2. Do you think it's worth it or should I just wait? If I do plan to upgrade, I will be selling my WA3+.
> 
> I switched my Bugle Boys out back to the stock JAN 6922's and I find I get more mids... hrm it even sounds better with the JAN. Well when I got the Bugle Boys the seller said they weren't tested, so maybe they are dying on me... Well time to replace them!!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> No, no way, not your last pair of tube. Wait until you grow out of D7000 like say, LCD-2. Then your wallet start to dodge new pair of GEC 6AS7G brown base


 

 Agree, the combo of TS 6SN7GT, GEC 6AS7G brown base and EML 5U4G mesh plate sound heavenly great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And yeah, the LCD-2 is targeted.


----------



## Zombie_X

About 3/4 of my headphone collection is 300Ohm or more, so it would make sense I guess.
   
  I would like to get a balanced tube amp, but they are expensive. I mean my Roc is balanced, but me wants teh balanced tubes! 
   
  Yeah I have no idea if the WA2 is even an upgrade. It's just that all those tubes on it caught my eye. I just want a tube amp with more power than the WA3+. Maybe more dynamic sounding with better soundstage and so on.
   
  It's possible they could be fake. That would explain why they were only $20 for them. But the logo on them are pretty worn so they could just be very old and worn out.. What's the signs of a dying tube?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Agree, the combo of TS 6SN7GT, GEC 6AS7G brown base and EML 5U4G mesh plate sound heavenly great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Right now I'm using GEC 6080, NU 6F8G (round plates), and EML 5U4G.  If this were my last set of tubes, I think I'd be happy for a long, long time.  Are the GEC 6AS7G brown bases really THAT much better than the 6080s?
   
  ZombieX - Save your pennies and buy the WA22 once you have enough money.  It's well worth the wait and you'll be in tube heaven.


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Exxpecting to order the Roc this week. If you can wait I will let you know how it compares to my Woo6se


 

 Oh that sounds great to hear! You'll like the Roc man, as I also have one. Are you getting the Roc SA version or standard Roc? The SA s supposed to have a warmer tube like sound, but the standard is dead neutral.


----------



## hodgjy

Tubes are pretty resilient.  They can have mold growing on them and still work.  But, signs of dying tubes include a blue glow instead of red, the getter turning white, and a reduction in sound quality.  The only way to know for sure is to run them in a tester.  Just looking beat up isn't an indicator at all.  They could look like hell and still be brilliant tubes.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> It's possible they could be fake. That would explain why they were only $20 for them. But the logo on them are pretty worn so they could just be very old and worn out.. What's the signs of a dying tube?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Right now I'm using GEC 6080, NU 6F8G (round plates), and EML 5U4G.  If this were my last set of tubes, I think I'd be happy for a long, long time.  Are the GEC 6AS7G brown bases really THAT much better than the 6080s?


 


 I can hear the 6AS7G with more texture and tension in bass than the 6080. Overall sound expanded, with the TS CLT, more micro detail in highs. Combo with Brimar CV1988 are another story, mellow mids and airy softer highs but lesser ipmact in bass, very good for orchestra music.


----------



## hodgjy

I really like the 6AS7G tube and agree that it has more texture than the 6080.  The only problem, for me at least, is they are noisy.  I own 6 of them--3 grey plate RCAs, 1 black plate RCA, a Chatham, and a Svetlana.  Of those, only the black plate and Chatham are quiet.  Well, so is the Svetlana, but I don't like that tube.
   
  To me, my only 6080, which is an RCA, just sounds slow, lazy, and uninviting.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I can hear the 6AS7G with more texture and tension in bass than the 6080.


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tubes are pretty resilient.  They can have mold growing on them and still work.  But, signs of dying tubes include a blue glow instead of red, the getter turning white, and a reduction in sound quality.  The only way to know for sure is to run them in a tester.  Just looking beat up isn't an indicator at all.  They could look like hell and still be brilliant tubes.


 

 Hrm, well I know I have one genuine Amperex tube that I used to have in the DAC 25.2. Maybe I should pop that in and take a listen..


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I really like the 6AS7G tube and agree that it has more texture than the 6080.  The only problem, for me at least, is they are noisy.  I own 6 of them--3 grey plate RCAs, 1 black plate RCA, a Chatham, and a Svetlana.  Of those, only the black plate and Chatham are quiet.  Well, so is the Svetlana, but I don't like that tube.
> 
> To me, my only 6080, which is an RCA, just sounds slow, lazy, and uninviting.


 


 That's wierd, the 6AS7Gs are dead silent with my WA22 and sound great.


----------



## hodgjy

It's just luck of the draw, I think, rather than any sort of design interaction in the amp.  The gray plates are the worst, but the other tubes are nice.  I don't think my amp has something against the grey plates--it's just the luck of the draw of me getting noisy tubes.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's wierd, the 6AS7Gs are dead silent with my WA22 and sound great.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's just luck of the draw, I think, rather than any sort of design interaction in the amp.  The gray plates are the worst, but the other tubes are nice.  I don't think my amp has something against the grey plates--it's just the luck of the draw of me getting noisy tubes.


 

 Sorry to hear about the noise of your 6AS7 and yeah...........sometimes NOS tubes need luck.


----------



## David.M

upgraditis has struck already, eh Zombie?   I can't blame you, DT990/600's need all the power money can buy muwhauuwawauhawh  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I as well was contemplating on whether it would be a big jump to go from a LD MK3 to a WA6, but i really want to drive the beyer's to their full potential, so maybe i should save penny by penny for the WA22? My dac does have balanced XLR connections, who knows, maybe i might do it.


----------



## hodgjy

I have a 5998 and a Chatham 6AS7G that I really like, so it's easy to forget about the noisy grey plates.
   
  We do have to keep in mind that the power tubes used in Woo amps weren't necessarily designed to be used in sound amps.  They are considered as series regulators for DC circuits...so, even though they might be noisy, they might still be working perfectly within the manufacturer's intended specifications.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Sorry to hear about the noise of your 6AS7 and yeah...........sometimes NOS tubes need luck.


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's wierd, the 6AS7Gs are dead silent with my WA22 and sound great.


 

 Yeah I have two RCA 6AS7G's currently and both are dead quiet. Well the model number on one of my tubes says "RCA Electron Tube 6AS7GA"while the other is "RCA Electron Tube 6AS7G". What the difference between them?


----------



## hodgjy

The 6AS7GA, if properly labeled, is in a straight bottle, whereas the other on is in a coke bottle.  The plate structures are supposedly the same.
  

  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Yeah I have two RCA 6AS7G's currently and both are dead quiet. Well the model number on one of my tubes says "RCA Electron Tube 6AS7GA"while the other is "RCA Electron Tube 6AS7G". What the difference between them?


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The 6AS7GA, if properly labeled, is in a straight bottle, whereas the other on is in a coke bottle.  The plate structures are supposedly the same.


 

 the RCA 6AS7GA is the coke bottle for me (the last on the left). while the 6AS7G is a straight one. Lol, mis-labeling on them is funny. 
   
  Hey, since you have a lot of experience with the WA3+ and tubes, which would be my best bet for the driver tubes? I want some pretty strong ones that sound similar to the 6AS7GA....


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Oh that sounds great to hear! You'll like the Roc man, as I also have one. Are you getting the Roc SA version or standard Roc? The SA s supposed to have a warmer tube like sound, but the standard is dead neutral.


 

 I think I am sticking to the original ROC. Unlikely ever to need the extra power, prefer nautrality (listen to Rock/Metal so the softer 'musical' might not be to my taste)
  plus I am thinking of a A-GD dac as an ulternative,not a replacement for my Cyrus, so the ACSS is preferably.
  Have you thought about the Woo6se. More powerful than the Woo2 and more dynamic, assuming you don't go for the Woo22.


----------



## David.M

pretty sweet Zombie,  you engraved your username on the DT880/600's?  So my guess is that you bought these from Manufactur? How much did they coast you?


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





david.m said:


> pretty sweet Zombie,  you engraved your username on the DT880/600's?  So my guess is that you bought these from Manufactur? How much did they coast you?


 

 Actually I Photoshoped it . I have like 8 years of experience with it so... I do plan on having it done though through Manufaktur eventually.


----------



## David.M

darn you, I've been tricked once again  ^_^ Very impressive photoshop skills then, if i may add.  It definitely fooled me.


----------



## hodgjy

I haven't rolled as many driver tubes as I have the power tube.  According to Jack Wu, the power tubes have the most effect.  But, it still helps to roll driver tubes.
   
  Terms like "best" and worst" really depend on your personal tastes.  Are you treble lover?  Are you in favor of rolled-off highs?  You can find either flavor in many of the driver tubes.
   
  Supposedly, the "best" drivers for the WA3 include Amperex, Mullards, and Siemens.  These are priced out of my range and they are too hard for me to find good deals on them.  I do really like the JAN Sylvania 6DJ8.  They are very liquid and well-controlled.  They are abundant and cheap as well, which is always nice.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> the RCA 6AS7GA is the coke bottle for me (the last on the left). while the 6AS7G is a straight one. Lol, mis-labeling on them is funny.
> Hey, since you have a lot of experience with the WA3+ and tubes, which would be my best bet for the driver tubes? I want some pretty strong ones that sound similar to the 6AS7GA....


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





david.m said:


> darn you, I've been tricked once again  ^_^ Very impressive photoshop skills then, if i may add.  It definitely fooled me.


 

 LOL, here's one for you then too  and thanks for the compliment, but I'm not that good at it...


----------



## David.M

LOL
  
  do that photoshop engraving on the DT990's and I'm instantly replacing my avatar


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I haven't rolled as many driver tubes as I have the power tube.  According to Jack Wu, the power tubes have the most effect.  But, it still helps to roll driver tubes.


 
    
  Quote:


seamaster said:


> As far as WA22
> 
> Driver tubes affect the sound the most, then rectifier. Power tubes affect the sound the least.


 
   
   
  Hmm... does this seeming incongruity reflect a difference of opinion, or is it just different for different types of (Woo) amps?
   
  I'm a little confused


----------



## hodgjy

I'm sure there is a difference between amps, as well as differences in each person's ear.  I'm going on emails I had with Jack Wu and my ears.....for me and my WA3, the power tube has much more effect than the driver tube.  I'm sure others have different experiences.  Note, however, that the WA3 has a solid state rectifier, which may make tube synergy much different.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hmm... does this seeming incongruity reflect a difference of opinion, or is it just different for different types of (Woo) amps?
> 
> I'm a little confused


----------



## che15

Mr zombie , in a few words how do you compare you x-can vs the WA3?
 Thanks


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm sure there is a difference between amps, as well as differences in each person's ear.  I'm going on emails I had with Jack Wu and my ears.....for me and my WA3, the power tube has much more effect than the driver tube.  I'm sure others have different experiences.  Note, however, that the WA3 has a solid state rectifier, which may make tube synergy much different.


 

 With me and my WA22, the largest perceived change was when I swapped power tubes.  Going from the stock 6080s to the TS 7236s brought an incredible and very welcome change; it nearly completely changed my amp's sound.  Although, going from the 7236s to the RCA 6AS7Gs and then the GEC 6080s brought many small changes that add up to make a significant difference.
   
  I'd say that my rectifier made the least amount of difference... so sad because it's the most expensive tube I have.


----------



## hodgjy

I completely agree.  I didn't care much for the stock 6080, but the 6AS7G was a neat upgrade, and even my Sylvania 7236 (which isn't as good as the TS) was still better.  It's a shame that Wu sends their amps out with 6080s when 6AS7G's are about the same same price.
  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Going from the stock 6080s to the TS 7236s brought an incredible and very welcome change; it nearly completely changed my amp's sound.  Although, going from the 7236s to the RCA 6AS7Gs and then the GEC 6080s brought many small changes that add up to make a significant difference.


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Mr zombie , in a few words how do you compare you x-can vs the WA3?
> Thanks


 

 Well the WA3+ is an OTL tube amp while the X-CanV8P is a hybrid amp (tube audio buffer with solid state output stage). TheWA3+ has a higher output impedance and voltage swing, while the X-CanV8P has a much higher current output. The WA3+ is rated for higher impedance headphones. The X-CanV8P is tailored to lower impedance ones.
   
  As for sound comparisons I have to say that my DAC25.2 has a Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 installed. The WA3+ has two Amperex Bugle Boys and one RCA 6AS7G installed along wih all the mods. The X-Can V8P has two Mullard E88CC installed and I also have a Pinkie V3i PSU for it. So testing won't be even.
   
  The WA3 has a very lush and liquid sound with smooth highs and well rounded bass with great impact and extension. The soundstage is very 3D in my opinion as has some great depth and width to it. This amp makes my DT990 600Ohm's sound perfect for rock and metal music. Music really tends to blend together and sounds more natural.
   
  The X-Can has a very detailed, lush sound to it and still has the smooth treble that tubes provide. It has great bass extension and impact. The soundstage is bigger than the WA3+ in my opinion, but I'm not so good ay judging the soundstage. This amp shines with Grado's, Denon's, and anything else that is low impedance.
   
  Now if you plug in a set of Grado's into the WA3+ you will get a very smooth sound with a lot more bass and lush mids with smoothed out highs, rolled off soundng I'd say. This sound is because the headphones are 32Ohms and the output impedance of the amp is higher than that. The HD555 through this amp sounds ultra smooth with a lot more bass and smooth mids. Really if your headphone are lower impedance and are very effcient.
   
  If you plug a 600Ohm headphone into the X-Can, you can get some slight slipping at higher volumes.
   
  I vastly prefer my WA3+


----------



## che15

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Well the WA3+ is an OTL tube amp while the X-CanV8P is a hybrid amp. TheWA3+ has a higher output impedance and voltage swing, while the X-CanV8P has a much higher current output. The WA3+ is rated for higher impedance headphones. The X-CanV8P is railered to lower impedance ones.
> 
> As for sound comparisons I have to say that my DAC25.2 has a Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 installed. The WA3+ has two Amperex Bugle Boys and one RCA 6AS7G installed along wih all the mods. The X-Can V8P has two Mullard E88CC instealled and I also have a Pinkie V3i PSU for it. So testing won't be even.
> 
> ...


 

 My goodness I asked for a few words , but look at what I got. Man you should be writing tons of reviews you could be a pro. Exactly everything I wanted to know , Thank you very much.
  Take care and keep enjoying your music


----------



## hodgjy

This is just another example of why I like this forum so much.  I've gotten so much good advice that has been spot on. 
  
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> My goodness I asked for a few words , but look at what I got. Man you should be writing tons of reviews you could be a pro. Exactly everything I wanted to know , Thank you very much.
> Take care and keep enjoying your music


----------



## Zombie_X

No problem guys. I like to help out other member to get to their audio nirvana. The more you know... right? lols


----------



## che15

Thanks for all the great Info , you are a very good writer , you should be a pro.
  Thanks


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Thanks for all the great Info , you are a very good writer , you should be a pro.
> Thanks


 

 Thanks for the kind words, but I'm not honestly not at all that good at writing this stuff. I just say what my ears tell me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .
   
  EDIT: Edited a typo in the last sentence.


----------



## grokit

Hi another silly question here if you guys could indulge me a bit more.
   
  I have read here and there lately that it is advisable to avoid handling these tubes with bare hands, and that white cotton gloves are preferable. Is this similar to high-wattage projector or halogen light bulbs, where the oil from your fingers can cause the tube to overheat and explode? Or is it more a case of slightly reduced tube life?
   
  And now that I have some of these gloves, should I clean off the glass part of the tubes that I might have handled with a bit of rubbing alcohol, or do I need to use dish soap or something? I am assuming that the part you don't want to touch is the glass, but is there a reason not to touch the metal base and pins as well?
   
  Since I have a 10-pack of these gloves now, I am willing to send a pair to whomever posts the most thoughtful and detailed answer


----------



## Thaddy

I have a question regarding the WA2 and the available upgrade options.  Similar to how the Sophia Princess and 6EW7 upgrades are a must have (and cheap!) option for the WA6 SE, are the power and driver tube upgrades for the WA2 also the inexpensive must-haves?  In my past experiences with tube amps, I've realized that 1. a good PSU is a must, and 2. good tubes are a must.  The black gates, stepped attenuator, and teflon tube sockets seem to be the more expensive yet "last 10%" upgrade options.  Similar to how expensive IC's and power cables can be nice to have, yet not really necessary.
   
  This amp is on my short list of upgrades, and I've also sent Jack an email and will share his thoughts as well.


----------



## hodgjy

It's advisable to wipe off any finger prints.  No, they won't make your tube explode.  But, they can make areas of uneven heating that may shorten tube life a little.  If you don't wear gloves, just be sure to take a soft cotton cloth and wipe your tube down before turning on the amp.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hi another silly question here if you guys could indulge me a bit more.
> 
> I have read here and there lately that it is advisable to avoid handling these tubes with bare hands, and that white cotton gloves are preferable. Is this similar to high-wattage projector or halogen light bulbs, where the oil from your fingers can cause the tube to overheat and explode? Or is it more a case of slightly reduced tube life?
> 
> ...


----------



## Seamaster

Or use your gym socks


----------



## hodgjy

Washed, I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Or use your gym socks


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Or use your gym socks


 

 *Cringes at thought of dirtying my tubes with sweat socks*
   
  I never wipe 'em off but that sounds like a plan now.


----------



## hodgjy

Hey Zombie, right now I'm trying out a new seller of the 5998 tubes.  If it checks out, I'll pass on the info to you if you're still looking for 5998.  I should have my tube in the mail some time this week.


----------



## Zombie_X

I actually bought two from www.vacuumtubes.net for $38 each. They even shipped them already.


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet.  I've tried them before, so I was just testing out someone new.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I clean my tubes with rubbing alcohol using a microfiber cloth, like the kind people use in automotive detailing.  As for the cotton gloves I imagine any glove will do so long as you are not getting the oils of your skin on the glass.  I use a pair of rubbermaid yellow kitchen gloves personally because they make it easy to grip the glass without slipping.  Better safe than sorry I suppose but I can't imagine the oils of your skin stressing the glass enough from uneven heating to cause the glass envelope to break.  Perhaps over a long period of time it would cause a crack maybe?  The tubes don't seem to be bothered by dust and other such things that settle on them in the room either.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I clean my tubes with rubbing alcohol


 

 I did this to my first set of Mullard tubes. The Mullard logo came right off !


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Or use your gym socks


 

 I just use a plain white cotton undershirt to clean my tubes.  I always use a Q-Tip and rubbing alcohol to clean the pins of any new tubes I get and I'll occasionally touch the glass with my hands, so I just give it a good old fashioned wiping with the shirt I have on.  If a tube is particularly hard to get into the socket, I'll just wrap my hand in my shirt and push down until it's secure.
   
  Socks would probably work even better, though.  You could drop the whole tube in the sock and wipe away... yeah.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I use a hand towel to handle tubes. A cloth diaper is the best IMO. They are a little thicker than a t shirt.


----------



## zeroeight

My Woo Audio WA6SE has a hum through the headphones when connected to a Nuforce Oppo BDP83NE which is connected to the TV.  I have tried everything but the hum is still there.  It gets louder as you turn up the volume.
   
  WA6SE alone - no Hum
  WA6SE connected to BDP (no connection to TV) - no hum
  WA6SE connected to another CDP - no hum
  WA6SE connected to BDP connected to TV (either thru HDMI or component video) - HUM
  HDMI just has to touch TV input socket and I'll get hum, no need to plug it in all the way.
  WA6SE connected to Sim Audio Tape out connected to BDP connected to TV - HUM
   
  It doesn't matter if WA6SE is plugged into another wall socket from the power bar that the BDP and TV are plugged in, I will get hum if the TV is connected to the BDP.  I have changed the I/C between WA6SE and the BDP and still hum if connected to the TV.  I have even flicked the input selector to the enpty input on the WA6SE and there is still HUM if the BDP is connected to the amp and connected to the TV.
   
  The only thing I have not tried are new HDMI cable or new powercable, neither one of which I think will help. 
   
  The BDP connected to the Sim Audio integrated amp and TV produces no noticable HUM through speakers.  Seems like the Sim may have good isolation features.
   
  Therefore I think the problem is with the Nuforce's separation between the audio and video sections when matched to the WA6SE.  I have a feeling that since both machines don't have much noise protection in the path they are picking up some signal from the TV.  This is my first experience with tube gear and I am not entirely happy.  Sent emails to both Nuforce and Woo and tried everything they asked me to but still get hum.  I can only conclude that the combo between the Nuforce and Woo (and Sony LCD TV) are not very good in terms of HUM-free performance. 
   
  When there is no hum then the Woo is a very good piece of kit, and so is the Nuforce.  But together, not so nice - unless I leave the TV out of the equation.  I know others have tis combo and just wondereed if you noticed the same HUM.  Not loud but during the quiet passages it is noticable, especially after I know to listen for it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> My Woo Audio WA6SE has a hum through the headphones when connected to a Nuforce Oppo BDP83NE which is connected to the TV.  I have tried everything but the hum is still there.  It gets louder as you turn up the volume.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> It doesn't matter if WA6SE is plugged into another wall socket from the power bar that the BDP and TV are plugged in, I will get hum if the TV is connected to the BDP.


 
   
  If both wall sockets are on the same circuit, that could be the problem. Try running an extension cord from another room that is controlled by a different circuit breaker as an experiment. It sounds like it could be a common ground issue. You could also try a cheater plug, but that could cause a whole new set of problems or even be unsafe.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> My Woo Audio WA6SE has a hum through the headphones when connected to a Nuforce Oppo BDP83NE which is connected to the TV.  I have tried everything but the hum is still there.  It gets louder as you turn up the volume.


 

 If a ground loop is not the problem then try this.
  Set your Oppo to HDMI Audio Off.
  Secondary Audio Off.
  Also check your settings on your Sony.
   
  I have the BD-83NE connected via HDMI cable to my Kuro using a WA6SE and a WA5LE with NP and 2Ch analog RCA out with a pair of interconnect cables.
   
  However I also use a PS Audio Primer Power station.
   
  Also when did you get your Nuforce Edition?


----------



## oldwine

I have the same question before getting WA2. The tube you can get it later, as the installation is easy, just plug the tube into the socket is ok. However, once you get it and want Jack "upgrade" the compoents later, he will not do the "teflon tube socket" upgrade. Besides, for the  black gates, stepped attenuator, he needs to pay 100 extra as the labour cost.
   
  So, you need to decide my your own.
   
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I have a question regarding the WA2 and the available upgrade options.  Similar to how the Sophia Princess and 6EW7 upgrades are a must have (and cheap!) option for the WA6 SE, are the power and driver tube upgrades for the WA2 also the inexpensive must-haves?  In my past experiences with tube amps, I've realized that 1. a good PSU is a must, and 2. good tubes are a must.  The black gates, stepped attenuator, and teflon tube sockets seem to be the more expensive yet "last 10%" upgrade options.  Similar to how expensive IC's and power cables can be nice to have, yet not really necessary.
> 
> This amp is on my short list of upgrades, and I've also sent Jack an email and will share his thoughts as well.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> I have the same question before getting WA2. The tube you can get it later, as the installation is easy, just plug the tube into the socket is ok. However, once you get it and want Jack "upgrade" the compoents later, he will not do the "teflon tube socket" upgrade. Besides, for the  black gates, stepped attenuator, he needs to pay 100 extra as the labour cost.
> 
> So, you need to decide my your own.


 

 I appreciate the response, although it was somewhat ambiguous.  When getting your WA2, did you feel that the only upgrades worth spending money on were better matched tubes?  Did Jack or anyone else suggest that the blackgates and stepped attenuator were really worth the cost?  I'm guessing you ordered a stock WA2 with upgrade tubes, correct?


----------



## zeroeight

Thanks for taking the time to answer.  My HDMI Audio has always been off and secondary audio off as well.  The HDMI doesn't even need to be plugged into TV for hum to occur, it just has to touch the HDMI socket on the TV.  I also tried without HDMI and with component video to TV and still hum.  That is why I suspect it is the TV feeding noise through the BDP through to the amp.  But since I can't hear it on speakers, then it seems like the speaker amp is better at isolation than the head amp.  That is why I connected the head amp to the tape out on the speaker amp, but to no avail.  Possible because the tape out on the speaker amp by-passes all the protective circuits and is a straight path.
  
  The next step is to get a power conditioner and new HDMI cable to see if that solves the hum issue.  Was looking to get a QED unit.
   
  If that doesn't work, I am moving house soon and will install two separate elec circuits straight to the fuse box which are dedicated to audio and tv with no other things attached so will get more isolation that way.
   
  The Nuforce was purchased about a month back.  I read that if the amp does not have some kind of DC protection then to inform Nuforce.  Not sure if this was the issue and raised with Nuforce but did not get adequate response.
   
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> If a ground loop is not the problem then try this.
> Set your Oppo to HDMI Audio Off.
> Secondary Audio Off.
> Also check your settings on your Sony.
> ...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> My Woo Audio WA6SE has a hum through the headphones when connected to a Nuforce Oppo BDP83NE which is connected to the TV.  I have tried everything but the hum is still there.  It gets louder as you turn up the volume.
> 
> WA6SE alone - no Hum
> WA6SE connected to BDP (no connection to TV) - no hum
> ...


 
   
  I had this issue when connecting a ZDT amp and WES amp to my PWD DAC at the same time.  Connecting a wire between the chassis of the WES and ZDT amps solved the issue for me.  Maybe a ground wire running from the TV chassis to the WA6SE or BDP would help with your problem.
   
  And no, the ZDT chassis is grounded to the PSU and not floating, but it uses a resistor and/or cap in the ground wire to the chassis.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Hey guys! Got my Woo Audio 6 yesterday. I am very pleased.
   
  I am however curious about the tubes that came with it. The rectifier tube is an Electronorgtechnica 5Z4G. I have never heard of this; it's says made in the USSR. I have looked back through the thread and have seen some people mention it, but there is a huge lack of info. Can anyone shed any light on the tube?
   
  The smaller tubes are Sylvania tubes.


----------



## hodgjy

For whatever reason, it seems like Woo puts in the cheapest tubes now when shipping their amps.  Perhaps it's to save costs and also an acknowledgment that most end users are going to roll some tubes.  Probably the best thing you can do for a new Woo amp is research the threads to find tube reviews, and then roll some new tubes in.
  
  Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Hey guys! Got my Woo Audio 6 yesterday. I am very pleased.
> 
> I am however curious about the tubes that came with it. The rectifier tube is an Electronorgtechnica 5Z4G. I have never heard of this; it's says made in the USSR. I have looked back through the thread and have seen some people mention it, but there is a huge lack of info. Can anyone shed any light on the tube?
> 
> The smaller tubes are Sylvania tubes.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> For whatever reason, it seems like Woo puts in the cheapest tubes now when shipping their amps.  Perhaps it's to save costs and also an acknowledgment that most end users are going to roll some tubes.  Probably the best thing you can do for a new Woo amp is research the threads to find tube reviews, and then roll some new tubes in.


 

  
  Hm.... Does rolling new tubes in simply mean to put new tubes in? Sorry, I am new to this.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Hey guys! Got my Woo Audio 6 yesterday. I am very pleased.
> 
> I am however curious about the tubes that came with it. The rectifier tube is an Electronorgtechnica 5Z4G. I have never heard of this; it's says made in the USSR. I have looked back through the thread and have seen some people mention it, but there is a huge lack of info. Can anyone shed any light on the tube?
> 
> The smaller tubes are Sylvania tubes.


 
  I actually like the 5Z4G tube. I have several NOS made by RCA (coke bottle shape). I think it sounds wonderful in my WA6.


----------



## Seamaster

Sounds like ground problem to me too. I had this with my PS3. I used a power cable with removable ground pin from PS Audio to solve the issue.


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, "rolling" is just the tube vernacular for changing tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Hm.... Does rolling new tubes in simply mean to put new tubes in? Sorry, I am new to this.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Hey guys! Got my Woo Audio 6 yesterday. I am very pleased.
> 
> I am however curious about the tubes that came with it. The rectifier tube is an Electronorgtechnica 5Z4G. I have never heard of this; it's says made in the USSR. I have looked back through the thread and have seen some people mention it, but there is a huge lack of info. Can anyone shed any light on the tube?
> 
> The smaller tubes are Sylvania tubes.


 

 Jack sends whatever stock he has on hand for tubes which can vary.  Each person may get something different.  For example my rectifier was a 5AS4.  Replacing this Russian tube with a NOS American made one is a cheap and recommended upgrade for your amp.  You can find 5AR4, 5U4G, and 5R4GY on eBay for as little as $10 and any of them would be an improvement.  Just stick to known U.S. Brands like RCA, Sylvania, Raytheon, Tung-Sol, GE and such.  The European brands such as Mullard, Telefunken and Amperex are even better but they cost a lot more.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I got my pair of RCA JAN VT-231s (grey glass) today.  So far, I'm not hearing a huge difference between these and my NU 6F8Gs, except that these bring out the midrange a bit more and the bass is more accentuated and deeper.  In Comfortably Numb it was almost to the point of being bloated, but in other songs it really sounded great, like it had much more authority.  I am hearing some more detail without any additional harshess or sibilance.  I'm also hearing a nice change in soundstage.
   
  Pearl Jam's 'Black' is definitely a great song to hear the differences.  I'm hearing more background sounds that really add to the depth of the song, and it seems to just have a more rockin' attitude without being aggressively in your face.  I'm liking these tubes, but right now it's nearly a toss-up between them and my NU 6F8Gs.
   
  Oh yeah, another thing I immediately noticed was that these tubes add more of a 'vinyl-like' sound to the music.  The CD version of Comfortably Numb sounds very close to the vinyl recording.
   
  I have another pair of these coming my way (don't ask...), and I'm not regretting both purchases. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Almost forgot... these tubes have a very obvious and glaring negative attribute.  You cannot see the glow.  That is all.


----------



## hodgjy

Tubes do need burn in to mature into their sound.  Sibilance and bass bloat usually diminish over time.  Also, soundstage opens up over time as well.  Plus, as you noticed, differences between tubes can be very subtle. 
  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I got my pair of RCA JAN VT-231s (grey glass) today.  So far, I'm not hearing a huge difference between these and my NU 6F8Gs, except that these bring out the midrange a bit more and the bass is more accentuated and deeper.  In Comfortably Numb it was almost to the point of being bloated, but in other songs it really sounded great, like it had much more authority.  I am hearing some more detail without any additional harshess or sibilance.  I'm also hearing a nice change in soundstage.


----------



## Seamaster

NU round plate?


----------



## Zombie_X

For the hell of it I plugged my K702 into my WA3+ and the K702 just sounds so good (though it's under amped). The sound is so fluid and smooth now along with the mids and bass being pushed much more. Sounds great man!


----------



## hodgjy

How can the 702 be under-amped?  The Woo 3 is an OTL with some serious horsepower.  If anything, they have too low of an impedance to really shine.
   
  But anyway, glad you like the combo.  The Woo 3 is an excellent amp.

  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> For the hell of it I plugged my K702 into my WA3+ and the K702 just sounds so good (though it's under amped). The sound is so fluid and smooth now along with the mids and bass being pushed much more. Sounds great man!


----------



## Red_Devil_24

Sounds like noise is coming from the shield connection on the TV side, you could try an HDMI cable with the shield only connected on the amp or oppo side.
  Quote: 





zeroeight said:


> Thanks for taking the time to answer.  My HDMI Audio has always been off and secondary audio off as well.  The HDMI doesn't even need to be plugged into TV for hum to occur, it just has to touch the HDMI socket on the TV.  I also tried without HDMI and with component video to TV and still hum.  That is why I suspect it is the TV feeding noise through the BDP through to the amp.  But since I can't hear it on speakers, then it seems like the speaker amp is better at isolation than the head amp.  That is why I connected the head amp to the tape out on the speaker amp, but to no avail.  Possible because the tape out on the speaker amp by-passes all the protective circuits and is a straight path.
> 
> The next step is to get a power conditioner and new HDMI cable to see if that solves the hum issue.  Was looking to get a QED unit.
> 
> ...


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> NU round plate?


 

 Yep, NU round plates. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I've been using them for a little over 4 months.


----------



## zeroeight

Thanks for the suggestion.  Not sure what you mean by shield connection.  The HDMI that I am using is the std cable with some kind of fuse in the middle.  Will check on internet for better cables. 
   
  As for disabling the ground pin, can't do it as I am using UK style plugs.  I did notice the Woo power output had only two pins not the normal 3 as one would expect from an IEC C14 male connector.
   
  Here is another quibble with the Woo - I wish they would paint the volume indicator white so that it is easy to see where it is.  With the black knob it is easy for the thing to be turned all the way to the right without one noticing.

  
  Quote: 





red_devil_24 said:


> Sounds like noise is coming from the shield connection on the TV side, you could try an HDMI cable with the shield only connected on the amp or oppo side.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I got my pair of RCA JAN VT-231s (grey glass) today.  So far, I'm not hearing a huge difference between these and my NU 6F8Gs, except that these bring out the midrange a bit more and the bass is more accentuated and deeper.  In Comfortably Numb it was almost to the point of being bloated, but in other songs it really sounded great, like it had much more authority.  I am hearing some more detail without any additional harshess or sibilance.  I'm also hearing a nice change in soundstage.
> 
> Pearl Jam's 'Black' is definitely a great song to hear the differences.  I'm hearing more background sounds that really add to the depth of the song, and it seems to just have a more rockin' attitude without being aggressively in your face.  I'm liking these tubes, but right now it's nearly a toss-up between them and my NU 6F8Gs.
> 
> ...


 
  Heh, yeah the RCA tubes are boring when it comes to glow.  My Tung-Sols opened up a great deal with about 10-15 hours, so you may be able to expect great things from the Greyglass still.  I'm very interested in your opinions on this tube since I haven't gotten my pair yet (lost my auction while I was sleeping.... boo) and since the Tung-Sols are so impressive I'm wondering if it really is worth it.
   
  I switched back from the Tung-Sols to the RCA 6SN7GTB blackplates and it felt like a big downgrade.  A more romantic and bloomy mid (a bit too much for me actually) is their only real strong point, otherwise the Tung Sols pretty much clobber them when it comes to detail, resolution and soundstage presentation.  I know the VT-231 Greyglass are still a staggered blackplate tube so I was thinking they'd really have to be a lot better than my 1950's GTB tubes to justify spending a hundred bucks when my Tung Sols do so well for 50.


----------



## monsieurguzel

I think that when you are comparing the RCAs to the NU they are both on very similar playing fields and I doubt you will hear anything more than very subtle changes in sound signature at the most.  Each just has a slightly different sonic flavor.  I personally never really loved the RCA VT-231s and much preffered either the Sylvania 6SN7W or the Ken Rad VT-231.  The Shuguang CV-181 was better to me than all those previously mentioned on my WA5, but not as good as the TS RP 6SN7GT


----------



## Skylab

I have recently bought two Woo amps used - a WA6 w/PDPS, and a WA2.  Both have impressed me.  They both sound really good - better than I even expected at the price (even what the "new" price would be).  I haven't owned a Woo amp since I had the WA3 quite a while back, and I am glad to have "re-discovered" them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have recently bought two Woo amps used - a WA6 w/PDPS, and a WA2.  Both have impressed me.  They both sound really good - better than I even expected at the price (even what the "new" price would be).  I haven't owned a Woo amp since I had the WA3 quite a while back, and I am glad to have "re-discovered" them.


 

 Yes, the WA2 is quite impressive--a little gem (or medium-size gem). There is not much talk in the Woo circles about the WA2 compared to the other Woos. I also love the look of those little EZ80/81 rectifiers hiding behind the 6080s.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, what ever happened to the WA4?


----------



## Skylab




----------



## Clayton SF

^^^ GEC. Wow. GEC. Wow. And Mullards. Mullards. Wow x2. One day I'll own GEC tubes. One day. I do, however have Mullard 6922.


----------



## hodgjy

There's a pack of 3 of them on eBay right now.  A little too rich for my blood.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^^^ GEC. Wow. GEC. Wow. And Mullards. Mullards. Wow x2. One day I'll own GEC tubes. One day. I do, however have Mullard 6922.


----------



## hodgjy

Congrats on getting back into the Woo family again!  I have the "lowly" Woo 3, and it is the best amp I've own.  Granted, I haven't owned that many, but it does everything I hoped it would.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have recently bought two Woo amps used - a WA6 w/PDPS, and a WA2.  Both have impressed me.  They both sound really good - better than I even expected at the price (even what the "new" price would be).  I haven't owned a Woo amp since I had the WA3 quite a while back, and I am glad to have "re-discovered" them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Congrats on getting back into the Woo family again!  I have the "lowly" Woo 3, and it is the best amp I've own.  Granted, I haven't owned that many, but it does everything I hoped it would.


 

 "Lowly" Woo 3, NOT!
  WA3--You've got good pedigree.
  HIGHLY good.


----------



## DoingOK

Skylab.....let me know when you want to part with the WA2.   hint, hint.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah...I wouldn't hold my breath


----------



## DoingOK

lol....trade for a woody version WA6?  The wood adds an earthy warmth unheard of in the Woo line. (shady, snake oil sales pitch)


----------



## Skylab

WOW - that is beautiful for sure!


----------



## hodgjy

So true.  Love my 3.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> "Lowly" Woo 3, NOT!  WA3--You've got good pedigree.
> HIGHLY good.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Welcome back to the club Skylab.  Your WA6 has the hard to find black t-plate 6DE7 tubes, very nice.  The amp will impress you even more if you use 6SN7s in it via adapters.  I hear you have a few of those tubes laying around.


----------



## Zombie_X

Well I'm loving this Tung-Sol 5998 in my WA3+. It seems much richer and far more refined than the RCA I had in it before. It does sound a lot more energetic than my Tung-Sol 6AS7G / RCA 6AS7G / RCA 6AS7 / GE 6AS7 by a lot!
   
  Now I need to track down a working Tung-Sol 7236! I hear they have the energy of the Sylvania 7236, but still retain all the lush tube sound.


----------



## hodgjy

You said it all.  The 5998 is a great all around tube.  It has tube bloom, but still retains control and speed.  The 6AS7G's have more tube bloom, but a little less control.
   
  I just acquired a Tung-Sol 5998A, which is supposedly the same as the 7236.  It's said that the 7236 is the computer rated version of the 5998A, actually.  It supposedly has tighter tolerances in better internal matching.  I have no idea how they differ in sound, however.  What I can say is that the sound of my 5998A is only slightly different than my 5998.  It has just a smidge more bass, a little more volume, and perhaps just a touch more air and a little less tube bloom.  It has just a touch more PRAT.  But, they're subtle differences.  It's not like going from an RCA 6080 to a Sylvania 7236 type of difference.
   
  I definitely recommend trying to find a TS 7236, but since IMHO, the sound isn't extremely different than the 5998, don't overspend for one.  
  
  Edit: Tube World has the TS 7236 starting at $29 with a broken guide key, all the way up to cryo'd tubes.
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Well I'm loving this Tung-Sol 5998 in my WA3+. It seems much richer and far more refined than the RCA I had in it before. It does sound a lot more energetic than my Tung-Sol 6AS7G / RCA 6AS7G / RCA 6AS7 / GE 6AS7 by a lot!
> 
> Now I need to track down a working Tung-Sol 7236! I hear they have the energy of the Sylvania 7236, but still retain all the lush tube sound.


----------



## Skylab

xcalibur255 said:


> Welcome back to the club Skylab.  Your WA6 has the hard to find black t-plate 6DE7 tubes, very nice.  The amp will impress you even more if you use 6SN7s in it via adapters.  I hear you have a few of those tubes laying around.







 Thanks! And yes, I do have a few 6SN7's around here 

 But how could those work in this amp, even with an adapter? The 6DE7 is a dissimilar triode - the two sections are very different in performance. It doesn't seem like a 6SN7 could be used.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





doingok said:


> lol....trade for a woody version WA6?  The wood adds an earthy warmth unheard of in the Woo line. (shady, snake oil sales pitch)


 

 Wow.
   
  That looks sweet! ...must have pic for Webshots  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (proud W3 owner since 2006)


----------



## Zombie_X

I saw them all for $70 or more on that site, can you link me to it?
   
  EDIT: Saw it was below it... Hrm now to try and justify this purchase..
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You said it all.  The 5998 is a great all around tube.  It has tube bloom, but still retains control and speed.  The 6AS7G's have more tube bloom, but a little less control.
> 
> I just acquired a Tung-Sol 5998A, which is supposedly the same as the 7236.  It's said that the 7236 is the computer rated version of the 5998A, actually.  It supposedly has tighter tolerances in better internal matching.  I have no idea how they differ in sound, however.  What I can say is that the sound of my 5998A is only slightly different than my 5998.  It has just a smidge more bass, a little more volume, and perhaps just a touch more air and a little less tube bloom.  It has just a touch more PRAT.  But, they're subtle differences.  It's not like going from an RCA 6080 to a Sylvania 7236 type of difference.
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

There are no anchors in the webpage, so it's hard to link.  But just scroll down the page and you'll see single tubes starting at $29.

  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I saw them all for $70 or more on that site, can you link me to it?


----------



## che15

Hey guys , I need some advise on the best cheap rectifiers outhere for my WA6 with PDPS , I prefer American or European which I know are more expensive , but maybe there are some secrets on good cheap European tubes.
 Thanks


----------



## che15

Do 5U4GB tubes work with the WA6?


----------



## Skylab

Well, the 5U4G is a bit less expensive that the 5AR4, generally. And the 5U4GB are generally even cheaper. I bought some lovely Sylvania Gold Brand 5931's (military designation for 5U4GB) for a great price recently, and those are very nice.


----------



## Skylab

che15 said:


> Do 5U4GB tubes work with the WA6?







 I can't see why they wouldn't, but you should probably check with Woo.


----------



## hodgjy

Audiophilia is a cruel hobby.  But, you should feel free to justify any purchase "just because." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Unless, it takes food out of your mouth, then you should hold off for a bit.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> EDIT: Saw it was below it... Hrm now to try and justify this purchase..


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Audiophilia is a cruel hobby.  But, you should feel free to justify any purchase "just because."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I agree! And I've learned to budget my food money. So I've gone from filet mignon to hot dog casserole just to best my current 5U4G or its equivalent.


----------



## zeroeight

Does that mean you can re-rank your list of tube amps to include the two new additions?  Like to hear your imprssions.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have recently bought two Woo amps used - a WA6 w/PDPS, and a WA2.  Both have impressed me.  They both sound really good - better than I even expected at the price (even what the "new" price would be).  I haven't owned a Woo amp since I had the WA3 quite a while back, and I am glad to have "re-discovered" them.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yeah, I got more than enough to buy a new one of them for $55, but I can't justify it cause I just bought those 5998's... and those were $80 together. See where I'm going? I could easily buy a new amp right now and not have second thoughts, but the thing is do I really need it? That's where I try to justify my purchases. "Do I need it?", that's what I always ask myself...
   
  So yeah....
   
  I wanna listen to a WA2 before I buy one. I love that it has multiple inputs and a pre-amp built in. That's a big plus to me


----------



## diego

5U4GB tubes are pin compatible with 5AR4 tubes but they draw 3 amps instead of 2 so the transformer may not be capable of handling them. You'll have to check with WA to make sure.
   
  The 5U4G tubes will also lower the plate voltage by about 10 to 15 volts which will shift the operating point a bit. This may or may not sound better and it won't harm the amplifier.
   
  Regards
  Diego
   
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> Do 5U4GB tubes work with the WA6?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I agree! And I've learned to budget my food money. So I've gone from filet mignon to hot dog casserole just to best my current 5U4G or its equivalent.


 

 Coming up next... confessions of a Head-Fi'er.


----------



## Thaddy

Wow, great looking WA2 Skylab!  I'm getting very close to placing my order for one.  The hard part is going to be figuring out which tubes to order...


----------



## hodgjy

Reminds me of my college days when I took food out of the fridge to make room for beer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Lately, I cut back on lunch out with coworkers and bring something cheaper from home if I plan on buying some tubes.  
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I agree! And I've learned to budget my food money. So I've gone from filet mignon to hot dog casserole just to best my current 5U4G or its equivalent.


----------



## hodgjy

Once you have the 5998, that's really all you need.  I have the 5998A (7236, really), and while I'm glad to have it because I'm also an amateur collector, it won't get near the use as my 5998.  So, while greed may get the best of you and tempt you to buy the 7236, you can live a very fulfilling life with the 5998. 
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Yeah, I got more than enough to buy a new one of them for $55, but I can't justify it cause I just bought those 5998's... and those were $80 together. See where I'm going? I could easily buy a new amp right now and not have second thoughts, but the thing is do I really need it? That's where I try to justify my purchases. "Do I need it?", that's what I always ask myself...
> 
> So yeah....
> 
> I wanna listen to a WA2 before I buy one. I love that it has multiple inputs and a pre-amp built in. That's a big plus to me


----------



## BIG POPPA

5998 are OK. But when you get into the Mullard, Bendix, GEC stuff. It gets a whole lot better for power tubes.


----------



## hodgjy

I'll agree with that.  However, they are hard to find and require a second mortgage.  I'd love to get a GEC 6AS7G.
  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> 5998 are OK. But when you get into the Mullard, Bendix, GEC stuff. It gets a whole lot better for power tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Does anyone own a Woo 4? Has anyone ever auditioned to one? Unfortunately I had missed the opportunity to order one by about one week. The week before he discontinued it.


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

Good question - I was interesting in know what was up with that model as well.  I read one review about it once, but that's about it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks! And yes, I do have a few 6SN7's around here
> 
> But how could those work in this amp, even with an adapter? The 6DE7 is a dissimilar triode - the two sections are very different in performance. It doesn't seem like a 6SN7 could be used.


 
  Takezo and a couple of other people have confirmed the 6SN7 (along with about a dozen other types of tubes) are electrically compatible.  You just have to adapt the socket to use them.  Jack Wu himsef has also confirmed there is no harm in using the 6SN7 in the WA6, he even makes his own adapters for the purpose.  The actual technical specifics are beyond me to be completely honest, but I am currently using 6SN7 tubes in my WA6 and it sounds worlds better than any of the 6DE7 family tubes I have.  I could never go back.  Once I tried my Tung-Sol 6SN7GTs it became a completely different amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Hey guys , I need some advise on the best cheap rectifiers outhere for my WA6 with PDPS , I prefer American or European which I know are more expensive , but maybe there are some secrets on good cheap European tubes.
> Thanks


 

 I recommend the 5R4GY if you are on a budget.  I paid $11 for my RCA brownbase shipped, and it was a huge upgrade over the stock 5AS4 as well as some 5V4Gs and 5AS4Gs I tried.  Big open soundstage, decent PRAT and nice bass.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





diego said:


> 5U4GB tubes are pin compatible with 5AR4 tubes but they draw 3 amps instead of 2 so the transformer may not be capable of handling them. You'll have to check with WA to make sure.


 
  Just a quick addition to this:  the Woo transformer is good for up to 3 amps, but not any higher.  So the 5U4GB would be okay.  This info is also courtesy of Takezo once upon a time.  I basically learned everything I needed to know about the Woo amps from him.


----------



## squid1980

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I recommend the 5R4GY if you are on a budget.  I paid $11 for my RCA brownbase shipped, and it was a huge upgrade over the stock 5AS4 as well as some 5V4Gs and 5AS4Gs I tried.  Big open soundstage, decent PRAT and nice bass.


 

 Hi Xcalibur255
  Can you tell me where can i find 5R4GY. I want to try some. oh I live in Thailand.


----------



## Skylab

My concern with the 5U4GB was not the heater current draw - since Woo states on its website that the WA6 can use the 5U4G, then the 5U4GB will not be any different in that regard.  I just wondered if the 5U4GB's controlled warm-up might be an issue of any kind, but it's unlikely.


----------



## oldwine

Thaddy,
   
  I finally get the stock one only. As i have an idea that Jack must appreciate the quality (esp. in sound) of stock one, before he puts into market. So, i prefer to listen the "original" performance of WA2 first.
   
  BTW, i have got the RCA 6AS7G and Amperex E88CC (O-Getter) as upgrade, to extend its dynamic and speed.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I appreciate the response, although it was somewhat ambiguous.  When getting your WA2, did you feel that the only upgrades worth spending money on were better matched tubes?  Did Jack or anyone else suggest that the blackgates and stepped attenuator were really worth the cost?  I'm guessing you ordered a stock WA2 with upgrade tubes, correct?


----------



## atbglenn

Speaking of 5U4GB's, My WA6 came with an Electro Harmonix 5U4GB directly from Woo. I'm sure there's no problem using one.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Thaddy,
> 
> I finally get the stock one only. As i have an idea that Jack must appreciate the quality (esp. in sound) of stock one, before he puts into market. So, i prefer to listen the "original" performance of WA2 first.
> 
> BTW, i have got the RCA 6AS7G and Amperex E88CC (O-Getter) as upgrade, to extend its dynamic and speed.


 

 Thanks for the tube suggestions.  Did you purchase them from Jack or get them elsewhere?  I haven't placed my order yet, but I know the tube options are going to drive me crazy.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Speaking of 5U4GB's, My WA6 came with an Electro Harmonix 5U4GB directly from Woo. I'm sure there's no problem using one.


 

 Hey Glenn, good to see you. I called you this morning but you weren't there.
  What did you think of the EH 5U4GB? That's a current-production tube isn't it?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Glenn, good to see you. I called you this morning but you weren't there.
> What did you think of the EH 5U4GB? That's a current-production tube isn't it?


 

 Hey Clayton,
   
   I never plugged the tube in since I already had some decent rectifiers. I'm home now


----------



## SpudHarris

Oh man, I'm away a week and theres 146 posts to go through....... Annnnnd my adapters from Jack haven't arived yet so I can't try the 6SN7's yet


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





squid1980 said:


> Hi Xcalibur255
> Can you tell me where can i find 5R4GY. I want to try some. oh I live in Thailand.


 

 Easiest way is eBay.  Since you don't have to worry about matching with a single tube it is the cheapest and most convenient place.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Speaking of 5U4GB's, My WA6 came with an Electro Harmonix 5U4GB directly from Woo. I'm sure there's no problem using one.


 

 You received a current production tube from Jack as your stock rectifier?  That's interesting.  I can't help but wonder if that is how he will end up having to go in the future at some point.
   
  I wish new production tubes were as good as NOS honestly to take the stress out of hunting them down.  Plus there is the risk of failure in an antique vacuum tube.  It baffles me why nobody makes a good 6SN7 for example (except perhaps the overpriced Shuguang Treasure).  You'd think they could just take a TS round plate and study its construction and operating points and be able to reproduce the performance.  EML does that with some of its tubes which are copies/improvements of Western Electric designs.  Oh well maybe some day.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You received a current production tube from Jack as your stock rectifier?  That's interesting.  I can't help but wonder if that is how he will end up having to go in the future at some point.
> 
> I wish new production tubes were as good as NOS honestly to take the stress out of hunting them down.  Plus there is the risk of failure in an antique vacuum tube.  It baffles me why nobody makes a good 6SN7 for example (except perhaps the overpriced Shuguang Treasure).  You'd think they could just take a TS round plate and study its construction and operating points and be able to reproduce the performance.  EML does that with some of its tubes which are copies/improvements of Western Electric designs.  Oh well maybe some day.


 
  And an EML 5U4G tube costs much more than some NOS 5U4G tubes. And as for reproducing a TS round plate I've heard that it is almost impossible to copy an NOS tube using its original "recipe" because some of the materials used to manufacture those tubes are now banned.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And an EML 5U4G tube costs much more than some NOS 5U4G tubes. And as for reproducing a TS round plate I've heard that it is almost impossible to copy an NOS tube using its original "recipe" because some of the materials used to manufacture those tubes are now banned.


 

 Goddamn RoHS and their god forsaken lead-free initiative and whatnot.  Damn them all to Hell.
   
  A few weekends ago, I bought an old 5U4GB (actually, a few) for $2 at a flea market.  Just for kicks, I swapped out my EML 5U4G mesh plate and I really didn't notice a difference between the two.  It really made me think about where my money was going.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Goddamn RoHS and their god forsaken lead-free initiative and whatnot.  Damn them all to Hell.
> 
> A few weekends ago, I bought an old 5U4GB (actually, a few) for $2 at a flea market.  Just for kicks, I swapped out my EML 5U4G mesh plate and I really didn't notice a difference between the two.  It really made me think about where my money was going.


 
  I know. So why can't we use mercury-coated black plates with radio-active 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 support posts if they're in a vacuum chamber?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know. So why can't we use mercury-coated black plates with radio-active
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Why can't we, you ask?  Because we'll all be exposed to radiation and our aging will be reversed, just like Glenn.  You've seen his avatars...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Why can't we, you ask?  Because we'll all be exposed to radiation and our aging will be reversed, just like Glenn.  You've seen his avatars...


 
  I knew it. There was a reason for Glenn's good fountain-of-youth looks. He's been tube rolling again in the most serious sense. Picking up the most coveted NOS tubes to reverse the effects of aging and it's working. HE'S YOUNG AGAIN. Bwahahahhahahahahaha! That's why there's a shortage of NOS tubes. GLENN has them all!!!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I knew it. There was a reason for Glenn's good fountain-of-youth looks. He's been tube rolling again in the most serious sense. Picking up the most coveted NOS tubes to reverse the effects of aging and it's working. HE'S YOUNG AGAIN. Bwahahahhahahahahaha! That's why there's a shortage of NOS tubes. GLENN has them all!!!


 

 Alert the authorities.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And an EML 5U4G tube costs much more than some NOS 5U4G tubes. And as for reproducing a TS round plate I've heard that it is almost impossible to copy an NOS tube using its original "recipe" because some of the materials used to manufacture those tubes are now banned.


 

 Not necessarily reproducing the original design and materials, but rather just good engineering.  That is, starting with the basic specs and tweaking until you have a modern RoHS compliant product that offers the same sound quality as the vintage tubes.  Naturally the price will always be high because of the low volumes, but at least there would be a guaranteed option for people.  Maybe when NOS tubes become more scare this will actually happen.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Not necessarily reproducing the original design and materials, but rather just good engineering.  That is, starting with the basic specs and tweaking until you have a modern RoHS compliant product that offers the same sound quality as the vintage tubes.  Naturally the price will always be high because of the low volumes, but at least there would be a guaranteed option for people.  Maybe when NOS tubes become more scare this will actually happen.


 
  I see. But what if a great NOS tube is like a great rich vanilla egg-custard pudding with specks of vanilla bean in it. And then the FDA comes along and bans eggs and vanilla bean. So how does one duplicate the richness and taste of that vanilla egg-custard pudding without the eggs and vanilla bean? I suppose you could present this dilemma to a create chef with the challenge to make another dessert that is equally satisfying but without the banned products. A really great chef would have the skills to create a new dessert that would actually taste like the original or maybe, even quite possibly, taste even better than the original. Yes, I see your point.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It baffles me why nobody makes a good 6SN7 for example (except perhaps the overpriced Shuguang Treasure).


 
   
  I have production Electro Harmonix which I'm listening to at the moment. They are not the upgrade I was hoping over 6EW7's. Will NOS versions be all that different do you think? They weren't overly expensive (compared to some) but if NOS will sound better in your opinion I'll invest for sure.
   
  On another note, how long do you guys leave the rectifier cooling between swapping tubes? 10mins? 30mins?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have production Electro Harmonix which I'm listening to at the moment. They are not the upgrade I was hoping over 6EW7's. Will NOS versions be all that different do you think? They weren't overly expensive (compared to some) but if NOS will sound better in your opinion I'll invest for sure.
> 
> On another note, how long do you guys leave the rectifier cooling between swapping tubes? 10mins? 30mins?


 
  I have not heard Electro Harmonix.
  I swap after 5 minutes.


----------



## Skylab

Electro-harmonix 6SN7's? Those are HORRID. Really bad. Even a basic NOS RCA, GE, or Sylvania 6SN7GTB will sound much better.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks both.....
   
  Well I should have reserved judgement slightly, I put them in at about 9:30am after picking up Jacks adapters from the PO and it's 4pm now and they certainly sound better than they did. I think there is potential though so will invest in NOS and report back. I will leave the Electro-Harmonix in for now and listen at length this evening.
   
  Off to the bay again.......
   
  Still worth buying NOS or are these worth a look?


----------



## Skylab

I think the re-issue Tung-Sols are better than the EH's, but still not as good as almost any vintage 6SN7's.  Further, you can get some vintage 6SN7's for LESS than the price of that TS:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Matched-Pair-Sylvania-6SN7-6SN7GTB-Tubes-/330430433995
   
  Try something like that - you don;t have to jump right to true NOS Tung-Sol Roundplates at $400/pair


----------



## jax

Another sleeper NOS 6SN7 that you used to be able to find at more reasonable prices is the Ken-Rad VT-231 (military versioin)...I think the one's I tried are from the 1950's.  They are very nice 6SN7 variants comparing favorably to my more expensive TSR's.   I'd say the TSR's are a bit more smooth throughout the range while the Ken-Rad, if I recall correctly, seemed to have a bit of a mid-range emphasis, but not glaringly so. They are a very good option.  This is in a different application though - YMMV.  
   
  On a related note, I have settled on Black Treasure CV181's (also highly recommended but pricey) in my application  of these tubes and may sell my Tung Sol round plates if anyone is interested in trying a pair.  I'd sell mine at a good price as I don't currently have a way of testing them beyond the application I'm using them in.  I got them NOS and used them for about 300+ hours in my Modwright Transporter.  PM me if anyone has interest. I'd rather sell them to someone who might use and enjoy them than to someone who's just going to flip them for profit (hence posting to this thread).


----------



## Magic77

I just got a new WA6 3 days ago. I know it's not broken in yet; but here is what concerns me: First of all, I have the rear impedance switch in the correct position. I have to turn up the volume very far; to the 3-4 o'clock position to get a reasonable listening level. On some recordings I have to turn it up even more, but then start getting some distortion. My Headphones are the Denon D-5000 and D-2000 which are only 25-Ohms impedance. I have tried the amp with 2 different CD players (desktop) and get the same results. I have contacted Jack Wu about this, but haven't heard from him yet.
   
  So; I'm just wondering if any other WA6 owners have experienced this. I thought the amp would have more "Gain". I don't feel I should have to turn the volume up to near Maximum to get a comfortable listening level. I have 2 other solid state Headphone Amps, but do not have this problem with them. If anyone could help or give me any advice about this (WA6 owners), I would greatly appreciate it.


----------



## che15

magic77 said:


> I just got a new WA6 3 days ago. I know it's not broken in yet; but here is what concerns me: First of all, I have the rear impedance switch in the correct position. I have to turn up the volume very far; to the 3-4 o'clock position to get a reasonable listening level. On some recordings I have to turn it up even more, but then start getting some distortion. My Headphones are the Denon D-5000 and D-2000 which are only 25-Ohms impedance. I have tried the amp with 2 different CD players (desktop) and get the same results. I have contacted Jack Wu about this, but haven't heard from him yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




<
 I Had the same problem and all it took to fix it was a cheap pair of driver tubes which had more output. You can get the 6DR7 or 6CY7 . Which tubes do you have now?


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey all,
   
  I'm loving this 5998 tube, but I have an issue. I get intermittent static in the right channel. It comes and goes randomly, but is most noticeable when powering up the unit. When I first got the tube, it was very noisy, but the static has dropped a lot over the 30hours I've put on it so far. Is there a chance I should let it run-in longer or is it going to remain noisy?


----------



## hodgjy

Try using a steel brush and cleaning the pins.  This happened to me once with a driver tube.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm loving this 5998 tube, but I have an issue. I get intermittent static in the right channel. It comes and goes randomly, but is most noticeable when powering up the unit. When I first got the tube, it was very noisy, but the static has dropped a lot over the 30hours I've put on it so far. Is there a chance I should let it run-in longer or is it going to remain noisy?


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Try using a steel brush and cleaning the pins.  This happened to me once with a driver tube.


 

 I don't have a steal brush, but would an emery board work fine? I tried cleaning the pins with alcohol already..


----------



## hodgjy

Ya, but go lightly.  You just want to "shine" the metal a little bit.  Remove all traces of whiteness or any blue tint on the pins.   Then clean with alcohol as final treatment.
   
  P.S.  You can buy a little steel brush for about $2 at any hardware store.  I recommend having one on hand if you're going into tube rolling.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I don't have a steal brush, but would an emery board work fine? I tried cleaning the pins with alcohol already..


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Ya, but go lightly.  You just want to "shine" the metal a little bit.  Remove all traces of whiteness or any blue tint on the pins.   Then clean with alcohol as final treatment.
> 
> P.S.  You can buy a little steel brush for about $2 at any hardware store.  I recommend having one on hand if you're going into tube rolling.


 

 Well the emery board worked for my Bugle Boys in the past so I'll try it. The thing is that the pins are completely silver already...


----------



## hodgjy

I'm not saying the static is 100% caused by the pins, but you'd be surprised at how little it takes for a tube to get some static and how easy it is to remedy it.  I hope it's the pins and an easy fix.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Well the emery board worked for my Bugle Boys in the past so I'll try it. The thing is that the pins are completely silver already...


----------



## Magic77

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I Had the same problem and all it took to fix it was a cheap pair of driver tubes which had more output. You can get the 6DR7 or 6CY7 . Which tubes do you have now?


 


 I have the 6CY7 (2) and the 5U4G.


----------



## Magic77

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I Had the same problem and all it took to fix it was a cheap pair of driver tubes which had more output. You can get the 6DR7 or 6CY7 . Which tubes do you have now?


 


 I also cleaned all the pins on all 3 Tubes, but the results were the same.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Thanks both.....
> 
> Well I should have reserved judgement slightly, I put them in at about 9:30am after picking up Jacks adapters from the PO and it's 4pm now and they certainly sound better than they did. I think there is potential though so will invest in NOS and report back. I will leave the Electro-Harmonix in for now and listen at length this evening.
> 
> ...


 
  Any tube, NOS or production, should improve over its first dozen hours of use.  Sometimes the change is very noticeable.  Like Skywise mentioned, the lower end on the NOS tube prices is the same or lower than the current production tubes and they sound very nice.  A NOS RCA or Sylvania 6SN7GTB should be a nice upgrade over the 6EW7 for no more than $25.  If you want to spend a tad bit more ($30-50) look for a T-plate Tung Sol 6SN7GT with grey or black plates.  I really like mine.  There is also a staggered black plate Tung Sol but these don't seem to be anything special and in fact are probably re-branded even.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I don't have a steal brush, but would an emery board work fine? I tried cleaning the pins with alcohol already..


 

 Fine grade steel wool works great if you roll it into a thin line then loop it around the pin and rub back and forth on each one.  It takes a bit of patience though, and it's important to clean the tube up well afterward since steel wool leaves lots of fine debris.  It would be disastrous if a piece of it were to bridge two pins of the tube together and cause a short.


----------



## che15

magic77 said:


> I also cleaned all the pins on all 3 Tubes, but the results were the same.




 Which power cord do you have , that would make a little difference . Is you amp used or new. Have you tried any other tubes maybe you just got some bad ones, it is very possible!


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Any tube, NOS or production, should improve over its first dozen hours of use.  Sometimes the change is very noticeable.  Like Skywise mentioned, the lower end on the NOS tube prices is the same or lower than the current production tubes and they sound very nice.  A NOS RCA or Sylvania 6SN7GTB should be a nice upgrade over the 6EW7 for no more than $25.  If you want to spend a tad bit more ($30-50) look for a T-plate Tung Sol 6SN7GT with grey or black plates.  I really like mine.  There is also a staggered black plate Tung Sol but these don't seem to be anything special and in fact are probably re-branded even.


 
   
  Thanks as always 
   
  I opted for these, I hope they are a good deal?
   
  The Electo-Harmonix 6SN7's are starting to shine this evening so they will be a back up when/if anything happens to the NOS Chrome Tops.....


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





magic77 said:


> I just got a new WA6 3 days ago. I know it's not broken in yet; but here is what concerns me: First of all, I have the rear impedance switch in the correct position. I have to turn up the volume very far; to the 3-4 o'clock position to get a reasonable listening level. On some recordings I have to turn it up even more, but then start getting some distortion. My Headphones are the Denon D-5000 and D-2000 which are only 25-Ohms impedance. I have tried the amp with 2 different CD players (desktop) and get the same results. I have contacted Jack Wu about this, but haven't heard from him yet.
> 
> So; I'm just wondering if any other WA6 owners have experienced this. I thought the amp would have more "Gain". I don't feel I should have to turn the volume up to near Maximum to get a comfortable listening level. I have 2 other solid state Headphone Amps, but do not have this problem with them. If anyone could help or give me any advice about this (WA6 owners), I would greatly appreciate it.


 




  Quote: 





che15 said:


> I Had the same problem and all it took to fix it was a cheap pair of driver tubes which had more output. You can get the 6DR7 or 6CY7 . Which tubes do you have now?


 

 Same happened to my previous WA6 and it was the issue of the driver tube. According to Jack it was the underpowered source that caused the issue, I returned the WA6 and paid the difference for a WA6SE Maxxed instead.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys,
   
  I won these off ebay and want to know what your opinions on this tube is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370413487035#ht_1736wt_911
   
  I got both of them for $25 total. The seller told me they should work fine in my amp since these are direct substitutes for 6922 and ECC88/E88CC tubes.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Ask Jack to makes sure they work.


----------



## hodgjy

I would be very doubtful of those tubes.  Definitely check with Jack Wu first.  The 6922 tube normally runs at 6.3v, and the ones you bought are at 12.  That's a huge difference.  I've heard of people using the 7DJ8 in Woos, which is 7v.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I won these off ebay and want to know what your opinions on this tube is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370413487035#ht_1736wt_911
> 
> I got both of them for $25 total. The seller told me they should work fine in my amp since these are direct substitutes for 6922 and ECC88/E88CC tubes.


----------



## Zombie_X

hrm... bummer Well I'll complain to the seller if they don't work..


----------



## hodgjy

They might work....it all depends on the transformer and fuse.  You might blow the fuse if the transformer can't take the 12v load.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> hrm... bummer Well I'll complain to the seller if they don't work..


----------



## Skylab

I think its an incredibly bad idea to use 12V tubes in place of the normal 6.3V ones, even if nothing actually catastrophic happens. I can't see that they would work well in any case.


----------



## Magic77

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Which power cord do you have , that would make a little difference . Is you amp used or new. Have you tried any other tubes maybe you just got some bad ones, it is very possible!


 

 I'm using a Shielded 14AWG power cord. I tried 2 different power cords also, but no difference. The Amp is brand new, only got it 3 days ago. Maybe I did get some bad tubes, but I would not know which ones were bad. Any more help or advice?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





magic77 said:


> I'm using a Shielded 14AWG power cord. I tried 2 different power cords also, but no difference. The Amp is brand new, only got it 3 days ago. Maybe I did get some bad tubes, but I would not know which ones were bad. Any more help or advice?


 

 something is off. either your source output level is below average vrms of 2.0v or
  your wa6 unit has issues with the set gain. only way to be sure is to find out the
  make and model of the cd players you've tried and get the output level. the power
  cord has little to do with gain/volume so no worries there. it's unlikely both of your
  6cy7 tubes are bad. (btw, the 6cy7 puts out more gain than the stock 6de7/6ew7)


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> They might work....it all depends on the transformer and fuse.  You might blow the fuse if the transformer can't take the 12v load.


 

 it won't damage the power tranny, but you won't get any sound either...
  the tube will barely register a glow since it's only getting half of what it requires
  to heat up the filaments.


----------



## Magic77

Quote: 





takezo said:


> something is off. either your source output level is below average vrms of 2.0v or
> your wa6 unit has issues with the set gain. only way to be sure is to find out the
> make and model of the cd players you've tried and get the output level. the power
> cord has little to do with gain/volume so no worries there. it's unlikely both of your
> 6cy7 tubes are bad. (btw, the 6cy7 puts out more gain than the stock 6de7/6ew7)


 


 I checked the specs for my 2 CD players, (Marantz and NAD). It says they are 2.25 and 2.2 Vrms. I still need to turn up the volume to the 4 O'clock position(near maximum) to get a decent listening level. I guess it may be a Gain issue,like you said. I've contacted Jack Wu about this; just waiting for his response.


----------



## che15

Quote: 





magic77 said:


> I checked the specs for my 2 CD players, (Marantz and NAD). It says they are 2.25 and 2.2 Vrms. I still need to turn up the volume to the 4 O'clock position(near maximum) to get a decent listening level. I guess it may be a Gain issue,like you said. I've contacted Jack Wu about this; just waiting for his response.


 

 What I would do is get another pair of tubes try the 6DR7 I got a pair for 10 $ shipped , if that does not fix the problem , then send it back for repair.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Thanks as always
> 
> I opted for these, I hope they are a good deal?
> 
> The Electo-Harmonix 6SN7's are starting to shine this evening so they will be a back up when/if anything happens to the NOS Chrome Tops.....


 
  You must have been logged in, because your link redirects to a login page instead of the auction.


----------



## Zombie_X

Well the seller refunded the money. He was fine with it.
   
  Now I found a site that has brand new Bugle Boys for $49 each! http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/6DJ8/ECC88


----------



## hodgjy

Glad to hear your money was refunded.
   
  Also, before you pull the trigger on Bugle Boys, you should have someone like Skylab or Uncle Eric take a look at the web page because there are a lot of counterfeits floating around.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Well the seller refunded the money. He was fine with it.
> 
> Now I found a site that has brand new Bugle Boys for $49 each! http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/6DJ8/ECC88


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You must have been logged in, because your link redirects to a login page instead of the auction.


 

 Ahh, Im always doing that......
   
These are what I bought. Any good??


----------



## Magic77

Quote: 





che15 said:


> What I would do is get another pair of tubes try the 6DR7 I got a pair for 10 $ shipped , if that does not fix the problem , then send it back for repair.


 


 Thanks. I just ordered a pair of 6DR7's.


----------



## Skylab

Those Sylvanias should sound very nice! spudHarris.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks Skylab - Fingers Crossed 
   
  I do like the Electro-Harmonix 6SN7's more now that they have settled in, probably close on par with my NOS Sylvania 6EW7's - just different. The soundstage is narrower with the EH's and the highs can get a little harsh dependant on musical choice, not a ''one tube suits all genres'' IMO.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey Skylab, think that site I listed has legit tubes? They look real, but you never know.
   
  Here's the link again, http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/6DJ8/ECC88
   
  I would like to get some driver tubes for my WA3+ that are powerful, or at least have more gain.


----------



## Zombie_X

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Ya, but go lightly.  You just want to "shine" the metal a little bit.  Remove all traces of whiteness or any blue tint on the pins.   Then clean with alcohol as final treatment.
> 
> P.S.  You can buy a little steel brush for about $2 at any hardware store.  I recommend having one on hand if you're going into tube rolling.


 

 Here's what I did. I used a small nail file to file all the pin on every side, even the ends of each pin. I then blew and wiped away all the little metal particulates than congregated on the tubes plastic base. I thin use Deoxit on the pins and when wiped away the pins had a gold tint to them. Then I used Progold on the pins and now they look gold plated after I wiped it off.
   
  So did it help in the end? Well.... YES! There is not more static, though I still get RFI on this tube (to be expected though, all tubes have this to a degree). I usually noticed the static sound when powering on the amp, but nothing now! It sound better actually and the sound is cleaner and more robust... 
   
  EDIT: Well the static is not completely gone, but now it's very faint when it pops up. Maybe I should look at the tube again..


----------



## hodgjy

If you're not happy with the tube, I suggest exchanging it.  I sent you a PM about my exchange experience.  As much as the price of 5998s have gone up, you deserve one that is quiet.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> EDIT: Well the static is not completely gone, but now it's very faint when it pops up. Maybe I should look at the tube again..


----------



## Zombie_X

Well I missed some oxidation on a few pins so I re-filed them and deoxidized them as well as re-progolded them (if those are even words). They are quiet as can be.... for now...
   
  If the static comes back I will get an exchange or refund.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm convinced it only takes one molecule of oxidation to make a tube have static.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Well I missed some oxidation on a few pins so I re-filed them and deoxidized them as well as re-progolded them (if those are even words). They are quiet as can be.... for now...
> 
> If the static comes back I will get an exchange or refund.


----------



## Zombie_X

I'm convinced it's from oxidation. Before I cleaned the pins, upon power-up the tube would hiss an make a crap ton of static (at start-up) then die own as time progressed. So after I did all the work on these pins, there is no static at power-up any more, but it remains as a quiet background noise, but that does not bother e that much to be honest. I hated it when It would just be heard during music, even with loud songs and such.
   
  So hopefully I got all of the oxidation on the pins.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Ahh, Im always doing that......
> 
> These are what I bought. Any good??


 
  A fine purchase.  If you happen to find yourself wishing they were a bit less bright, look into a Tung Sol, otherwise enjoy!


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys!
   
   Know of any really inexpensive tube testors that can test: 6922, 6DJ8, ECC88/E88CC, 6AS7G, 6080, 5998, 7236 tubes at all?
   
  I have a Conar 223 and for some reason it won't work with my 6DJ8's. Not even when calibrated.


----------



## hodgjy

Tube Depot periodically collects and blows out tube testers fairly cheaply.  You can try checking with them.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Know of any really inexpensive tube testors that can test: 6922, 6DJ8, ECC88/E88CC, 6AS7G, 6080, 5998, 7236 tubes at all?
> 
> I have a Conar 223 and for some reason it won't work with my 6DJ8's. Not even when calibrated.


----------



## musicman59

Yeah!! Jack emailed me yesterday. Tomorrow my fully loaded WA5-LE in black (AKA "The Black Beauty") will be shipped. There are 3 boxes: Amplifier section, Power Supply and EML and treasure tubes.
  It should be in my hand no later than Thursday. I will post pictures in a different thread when it gets here.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yeah!! Jack emailed me yesterday. Tomorrow my fully loaded WA5-LE in black (AKA "The Black Beauty") will be shipped. There are 3 boxes: Amplifier section, Power Supply and EML and treasure tubes.
> It should be in my hand no later than Thursday. I will post pictures in a different thread when it gets here.


 

 The Black Beauty. Wonderful! I hope you have a stable to keep that beauty in! Congratulations.


----------



## Skylab

zombie_x said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 You can often get B&K 606's for pretty cheap, and it will test all those. Nice little tester.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yeah!! Jack emailed me yesterday. Tomorrow my fully loaded WA5-LE in black (AKA "The Black Beauty") will be shipped. There are 3 boxes: Amplifier section, Power Supply and EML and treasure tubes.
> It should be in my hand no later than Thursday. I will post pictures in a different thread when it gets here.


 

 Congrats!!!
  Total weight 105 lbs. The amp and psu are huge and heavy (they dwarf my WA6SEmax) so I hope you have a strong platform to put them on with nothing over them.
  Also If you got the Treasure 300B's and the CV181-Z (as I did at first) be careful these tubes are not touching (very tight fit in the amp). I now have a matched pair of real NOS WE 300B (date code on both 1956/26 week) and imo a must have in this amp matched pair of real NOS TS 6SN7GT round plate (Aug 1942 on both tubes). I still have my EML 5U4G's (latest revision) in my psu.
  The combo of the WE's and TSR's are a night and day difference from what I first got from Jack.
  I to got a max WA5LE + a Alps RK50 and I have found it has taken 800+ hours for the WA5LE to really break-in but after about 400 hours you will get only very small changes.
   
  One thing for sure is you are getting the best of the best.


----------



## hodgjy

Congrats!  Please do post pictures.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yeah!! Jack emailed me yesterday. Tomorrow my fully loaded WA5-LE in black (AKA "The Black Beauty") will be shipped. There are 3 boxes: Amplifier section, Power Supply and EML and treasure tubes.
> It should be in my hand no later than Thursday. I will post pictures in a different thread when it gets here.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Congrats!!!
> Total weight 105 lbs. The amp and psu are huge and heavy (they dwarf my WA6SEmax) so I hope you have a strong platform to put them on with nothing over them.
> Also If you got the Treasure 300B's and the CV181-Z (as I did at first) be careful these tubes are not touching (very tight fit in the amp). I now have a matched pair of real NOS WE 300B (date code on both 1956/26 week) and imo a must have in this amp matched pair of real NOS TS 6SN7GT round plate (Aug 1942 on both tubes). I still have my EML 5U4G's (latest revision) in my psu.
> The combo of the WE's and TSR's are a night and day difference from what I first got from Jack.
> ...


 

 Thanks for all your advice.
  I ordered it with the EML 300B Mesh, EML 5U6G Mesh and Treasure CV181-Z (Jack's recommendation) but I also have ready a pair of BGRP Tungsol 6SN7GT and a pair of BGRP of Tungsol 6G8F.


----------



## Magic77

Can anyone tell me if I can use a 5U4GB in place of a 5U4G Tube in the WA6?  Would there be any significant differences between the two? Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





magic77 said:


> Can anyone tell me if I can use a 5U4GB in place of a 5U4G Tube in the WA6?  Would there be any significant differences between the two? Thanks.


 

 Yes, you can.  Whether you will hear a difference in sound, only you can tell.


----------



## mikemalter

Well, Jack Woo came through for me.  If you guys will remember about a month ago I was tube rolling between stock and the upgraded tube package Jack sells with his WA22.  I swapped out the upgraded Sylvania's with the stock RCA and then put in the Sophia and it blew.
   
  Jack had the folks at Sophia send me a new one and now everything works.
   
  Funny, but the Sylvania's are in the upgrade package, but I prefer the sound of the lesser quality RCA's.


----------



## hodgjy

Glad Jack came through for you.  I had no doubts that we would.
   
  Also--you highlighted one of my beliefs--the best sounding tubes don't cost the most.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Glad Jack came through for you.  I had no doubts that we would.
> 
> Also--you highlighted one of my beliefs--the best sounding tubes don't cost the most.


 

 Do you have recommendations for great budget power and preamp tubes?  I'd be purchasing  6AS7G/5998's and 6922/6DJ8's for the WA2 I plan on ordering.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, Jack Woo came through for me.  If you guys will remember about a month ago I was tube rolling between stock and the upgraded tube package Jack sells with his WA22.  I swapped out the upgraded Sylvania's with the stock RCA and then put in the Sophia and it blew.
> 
> Jack had the folks at Sophia send me a new one and now everything works.


 
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Glad Jack came through for you.  I had no doubts that we would.


 

 I just started an appreciation / feedback thread for Jack @ Woo; he rocks!


----------



## hodgjy

Best bang for your buck is the Sylvania 6DJ8 preamp tube.  Very liquid and smooth.  This is the preamp tube I use.
   
  Good power tubes include the RCA 6AS7G, which is very warm and nice.  It doesn't have the same speed as the Tung-Sol 5998, but the 5998 isn't as warm.  If you can get your hands on either of these tubes, you'll be happy.  I say avoid the Svetlana 6H13C.  There's nothing magical about this tube.  If you want pure speed at the expense of warmth, you could try the Sylvania 7236.  It's very solid-state sounding.  If you can get your hands on a Tung-Sol 7236, it as all the speed of the Sylvania, but more musicality and warmth.  There's a couple of Chatham 6AS7G tubes on ebay, and I highly recommend these.  I have one, and it's a notch better than the RCA 6AS7G.  A little more speed without loss of warmth.  I also suggest skipping any USA-made 6080 tube.  They are slow, lazy, and un-engaging.
  
  The power tube that sees the most time is my 5998.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Do you have recommendations for great budget power and preamp tubes?  I'd be purchasing  6AS7G/5998's and 6922/6DJ8's for the WA2 I plan on ordering.


----------



## Zombie_X

I find the Sylvania 6080 to sound pretty good. They are smooth and lush sounding with nice bass. They are slow like you said, but they aren't that bad.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My 6SN7 adapters from 2359glenn arrived today, but I wont be able to test them out till next week.  I have a pair of Sylvania VT-231 buried in my closet that I need to find after I return from a trip.  
   
  I also have a pair of 6DR7 and 6CY7 that I'll be able to try.  For years I've only been using RCA 6DE7 in it, which I liked slightly more than the Sylvania that it came with.  I have a 3 year old amp with the smaller holes that can't take the fat bottle tubes, but it's maxed and I had the PDPS installed.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Best bang for your buck is the Sylvania 6DJ8 preamp tube.  Very liquid and smooth.  This is the preamp tube I use.
> 
> Good power tubes include the RCA 6AS7G, which is very warm and nice.  It doesn't have the same speed as the Tung-Sol 5998, but the 5998 isn't as warm.  If you can get your hands on either of these tubes, you'll be happy.  I say avoid the Svetlana 6H13C.  There's nothing magical about this tube.  If you want pure speed at the expense of warmth, you could try the Sylvania 7236.  It's very solid-state sounding.  If you can get your hands on a Tung-Sol 7236, it as all the speed of the Sylvania, but more musicality and warmth.  There's a couple of Chatham 6AS7G tubes on ebay, and I highly recommend these.  I have one, and it's a notch better than the RCA 6AS7G.  A little more speed without loss of warmth.  I also suggest skipping any USA-made 6080 tube.  They are slow, lazy, and un-engaging.
> 
> The power tube that sees the most time is my 5998.


 
  Awesome, thanks for the quick run down of power and preamp tubes.  I'll keep my eyes peeled.  As far as websites to source tubes, so far I've found Tube Depot, Tube World, and of course Ebay.  Any other great websites I'm missing?


----------



## hodgjy

You're welcome.  Those are the main sites, but you can also try vacuumtubes.net and tubesandmore.com.  Vacuumtubes.net has the 5998, but I've found the quality in their stock to be questionable.  I've received a few from them that were pretty beat up and extremely noisy.  The hit to miss ratio is extremely low.  I found another little outfit that has the 5998 for a very good price ($24), but PM me for the info.  I am hesitant to post it here because they are a small operation.  Of course they way over charge for shipping (like everyone does these days), but I found their prices to be excellent nonetheless. 
   

  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Awesome, thanks for the quick run down of power and preamp tubes.  I'll keep my eyes peeled.  As far as websites to source tubes, so far I've found Tube Depot, Tube World, and of course Ebay.  Any other great websites I'm missing?


----------



## SpudHarris

Well, I know the production Electro-Harmonix 6SN7's are supposed to be pants but I've put quite a few hours on them now and have to say I'm really loving them. They seem to have mellowed or matured into a well rounded, fast, dynamic tube and at present my favourite.
   
  I had to swap out the 6EW7's as I was maxxing out the volume with my DT880 600ohms  with the 6SN7's I'm at about 1 o'clock.
   
  I do have the NOS 6SN7 chrome top Sylvania tubes on route and if they better the production EH's I'm going to be a very happy man...


----------



## Xcalibur255

If the EH tubes sound good to you then I wouldn't worry about what is said of them.  Just enjoy.    Actually I recall reading the other night in the 6SN7 reference thread that many felt it was a good match for a Sylvania 6SN7GTB.  What it doesn't stand up to is the more sought after tubes like the rare Tung Sols.
   
  On a separate thought/note, one interesting side effect I've noticed from running 6SN7 in the WA6 is that it seems to run much much cooler.  The transformer top cover would get quite hot when I had 6FD7 tubes in.  Now it is cold to the touch even after being on for hours.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If the EH tubes sound good to you then I wouldn't worry about what is said of them.  Just enjoy.    Actually I recall reading the other night in the 6SN7 reference thread that many felt it was a good match for a Sylvania 6SN7GTB.  What it doesn't stand up to is the more sought after tubes like the rare Tung Sols.
> 
> On a separate thought/note, one interesting side effect I've noticed from running 6SN7 in the WA6 is that it seems to run much much cooler.  The transformer top cover would get quite hot when I had 6FD7 tubes in.  Now it is cold to the touch even after being on for hours.


 

 On the latter, that is no shock - the 6SN7 draws 35% less current from the transformer than the 6FD7 or 6DE7.
   
  Also, the 6SN7 has an amplification factor of 20.  The 6EW7 and 6DE7 have an amplification factor of 6.  So yes, you will need less of the volume control with a 6SN7.
   
  And I certainly agree that if the EH 6SN7's sound good to you, SpudHarris, then rock on!


----------



## TheWuss

well, guys... 
   
  i've spent some time with the T1, and have to report that right now the Caliente is beating the WA6 with them. 
  i'm not sure, but i just don't think i've found "the tubes" for the T1...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  would i be well served by getting the 6SN7 adapters and trying out some 6SN7 tubes???
   
  (i have stock WA6 w/ PDPS and a sophia 274B rectifier - will this work?)
   
  right now, the Caliente is sounding smoother, more involving, and with better low end.
   
  the tubes i've tried on the WA6:
  sylvania fat bottle 6FD7
  sylvania skinny bottle 6DE7
  RCA 6DE7 w/ black plate
  RCA 6FD7 w/ black plate
   




   
  any scraps of help i can get from you woo amp owners would be much appreciated...


----------



## che15

Hello Headfiers!
  I heard that there is a model of the WA6 that is not as compatible with the sophia , giving the tube a shorter life span. Does anyone know which year model of the WA6 this is?
  Thanks in advance for your help.
  You all take care
  Cesar


----------



## che15

There are some other tubes that you can try before you spend more money on the adapter and sn7s. I have listened to the 6DR7 with my WA6 giving nice results, they are cheap and sound very good to me. Also the 6CY7 , they are both high output tubes.
  Good luck, I hope you find the right tube for your new cans.

  
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> well, guys...
> 
> i've spent some time with the T1, and have to report that right now the Caliente is beating the WA6 with them.
> i'm not sure, but i just don't think i've found "the tubes" for the T1...
> ...


----------



## takezo

you can always add bypass caps to the power filters to smooth out the
  voltage reaching the plates of the tubes. this removes any sneaky
  ac voltages that leak thru and take form of noise, grain, and one form
  of hum that buzzes. best of all, it's cheap. just need two $2 orange drop
  caps to put parallel with the power filtering cap. these should be rated
  at 0.1 uf/ 300v or higher v.
   
  pdps is a great mod but you should change out the cathode bias caps
  as well. these are the four small caps between the output sockets.
  blackgates are nice but expensive, so i'd stick with elna silmic-II types
  for a very transparent and accurate sound presentation. they are about
  $3 each. all of the above will improve the highs, mids and bass focus
  and instrument separation.
   
  if you want impact bass, then change out the coupling caps to a teflon
  type rated at 0.22 uf/ 300v or higher v. bypass this with another teflon
  rated at 0.01 uf/300v or higher v. this should improve it significantly but
  also the most expensive upgrade... or not. forgot about the great russian
  teflons available at eday. they're quite reasonable in price and sound
  as good as the other exotic types. they are the FT-3 type teflon caps.


----------



## kingtz

Just wondering, does Woo offer any special discounts to Headfiers? You know, with their being sponsors and all.


----------



## hodgjy

Not that I know of.  Wish they did.
  
  Quote: 





kingtz said:


> Just wondering, does Woo offer any special discounts to Headfiers? You know, with their being sponsors and all.


----------



## Thaddy

I know I'm putting the cart before the horse, but I couldn't pass up this deal.  I just picked up two matched Tung Sol 5998's, two Sylvania 6DJ8's, and two Amperex Bugle Boy EZ80's.  I guess that means tomorrow I have to place my order for a WA2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At least I'll have some good tubes waiting for it to arrive...


----------



## hodgjy

I bought some tubes the same day I ordered my Woo because I knew the stock tubes would not show the amp's true potential.  So.....I looked at some tubes each day until my amp came.  I imagined each day what the amp might sound like.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I know I'm putting the cart before the horse, but I couldn't pass up this deal.  I just picked up two matched Tung Sol 5998's, two Sylvania 6DJ8's, and two Amperex Bugle Boy EZ80's.  I guess that means tomorrow I have to place my order for a WA2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Also, the 6SN7 has an amplification factor of 20.  The 6EW7 and 6DE7 have an amplification factor of 6.  So yes, you will need less of the volume control with a 6SN7.


 
  I'm finding I have the volume dial in the same place I did with 6DE7/6EW7 tubes and haven't noticed any appreciable difference in gain between those and the 6SN7.  The 6FD7, according to what I read, has a gain of 64 so I guess the difference between 6 and 20 must be really small.  The 6FD7 only has about 20% more practical gain than a 6DE7 and that represents the difference between a gain of 6 and 64.  I have no idea what the scale is based upon.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> right now, the Caliente is sounding smoother, more involving, and with better low end.


 
  Switching to the 6SN7 tubes brought exactly these improvements to my listening experience.  You can give it a try for about $70 for the cost of the adapters plus a cheap pair of tubes to start out with.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm finding I have the volume dial in the same place I did with 6DE7/6EW7 tubes and haven't noticed any appreciable difference in gain between those and the 6SN7.  The 6FD7, according to what I read, has a gain of 64 so I guess the difference between 6 and 20 must be really small.  The 6FD7 only has about 20% more practical gain than a 6DE7 and that represents the difference between a gain of 6 and 64.  I have no idea what the scale is based upon.


 

 this is because the 6sn7's mu factor is based on a higher operating voltage point...
  on the wa6 it's operating point is much lower, hence the difference in mu factor.


----------



## SpudHarris

As I have had a very possitive experience with the production EH 6SN7's (which I didn't expect) I thought I'd have a listen to the Tung-Sol 6SN7 re-issue also. The NOS Sylvanias will take an age to get here and the Tung-Sol's will be here in the morning  will leave them playing through the day and audition on the evening and report back....
   
  Man I love my Woo 6 soooo much


----------



## Thaddy

Order placed for a WA2, now the waiting begins


----------



## Magic77

I have a question for any WA6 owners. I've had my new WA6 for over a week now. I use the Denon D-5000's and the D-2000's. The main problem is that I am getting distorted bass response. With heavier Bass passages, it just starts to distort; the Bass is not tight. I have tried various Tubes; 6CY7, 6DR7, 5AR4 and 5U4G. I have the rear impedance switch in the correct position; I have tried different CD's and 2 different CD players with the same results. I am on the verge of returning the amp for a refund. I really don't want to return it; Am I doing something wrong; or are the Denon's possibly not a good match for the WA6?  I have 2 other Solid-State headphone amps and do not have this problem with the Denon's. 
   
  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## SpudHarris

I use my D2000's with my WA6 without issue. I have to say though I don't always have the impedance switch on low, you just don't get as  much volume control in hi mode.
   
  Is it with a particular combination of tubes or all of them that you have problems? I'm not an expert but I'm sure that someone here will have an answer for you, there are a lot of knowledgeable people frequenting this thread.
   
  I hope you get it sorted though as the D2000's are a fine match in my opinion. Good luck


----------



## Magic77

Thanks for the response. I have been trying different combinations of the Tubes I mentioned with no luck so far. I'll try the impedance switch to high like you said and see what happens with that. Thanks again.
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I use my D2000's with my WA6 without issue. I have to say though I don't always have the impedance switch on low, you just don't get as  much volume control in hi mode.
> 
> Is it with a particular combination of tubes or all of them that you have problems? I'm not an expert but I'm sure that someone here will have an answer for you, there are a lot of knowledgeable people frequenting this thread.
> 
> I hope you get it sorted though as the D2000's are a fine match in my opinion. Good luck


----------



## takezo

switching to high impedance for the d5000 wouldn't do much, except sound less
  dynamic and dull. the d5000 is rated at 25 ohms for impedance; the wa6 can only
  go down to 32 ohms; not a perfect match but still sounds very good.
   
  there must be an issue with your unit because i can't go over 12 o'clock with the
  d5000 without my ears hurting, but still no distortion. normal listening level is at
  10 o'clock and my dac pumps out 2.25 vrms. unless you know your way around
  with a multimeter, i'd send it back to wooaudio for them to take a look. good luck.


----------



## Magic77

Just would like to know what Tubes you are using with your WA6? I think you are right, there may be an issue with my amp. I have to turn up the volume to 2 or 3 o'clock to get a good level with the D-5000. Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> switching to high impedance for the d5000 wouldn't do much, except sound less
> dynamic and dull. the d5000 is rated at 25 ohms for impedance; the wa6 can only
> go down to 32 ohms; not a perfect match but still sounds very good.
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> As I have had a very possitive experience with the production EH 6SN7's (which I didn't expect) I thought I'd have a listen to the Tung-Sol 6SN7 re-issue also. The NOS Sylvanias will take an age to get here and the Tung-Sol's will be here in the morning  will leave them playing through the day and audition on the evening and report back....
> 
> Man I love my Woo 6 soooo much


 

 I'm definitely no expert, but when I was looking at photos of the Electro-Harmonix and re-issue Tung-Sols the other day I came to the conclusion that they look like the exact same tube.  The TS commands a bit more money so perhaps it goes through tighter quality control to produce an improved sound.


----------



## takezo

i used a gz30 rectifier with a pair of 6de7 to test the d5000 with the wa6.
  normal is 10 o'clock to 10:30. i don't listen very loud. 1 o'clock and beyond is
  rock concert level.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm definitely no expert, but when I was looking at photos of the Electro-Harmonix and re-issue Tung-Sols the other day I came to the conclusion that they look like the exact same tube.  The TS commands a bit more money so perhaps it goes through tighter quality control to produce an improved sound.


 
   
  You know they may just be the same, there was only a pound difference per tube. I feel comfortable knowing I've got back up tubes, just wish I could stretch to the  EML 5U4G mesh plate and keep the Sophia as back up haha.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am keen to roll my tubes with 6SN7 on my WA6SE Maxxed and wonder this is the right adapter to be used, http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapter-6SL7-6SN7-6CG7-tubes-SUB-/260642120295?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2#ht_1220wt_913
   
  Appreciates all replies.


----------



## SpudHarris

Those look like the same adapters that Jack supplied me for my 6SN7's for use in my WA6....


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I wonder whether it is safe to use on a WA6SE. Couldn't find much literature on this subject.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I am keen to roll my tubes with 6SN7 on my WA6SE Maxxed and wonder this is the right adapter to be used, http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapter-6SL7-6SN7-6CG7-tubes-SUB-/260642120295?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2#ht_1220wt_913
> 
> Appreciates all replies.


 

 unfortunately, no. that's a 6sn7 to 6cg7 adapter. neither of which is compatible
  for the wa6SE.  you'd need a 6sn7 to 6de7 adapter with some extra resistor for
  use with the wa6SE. you may want to ask groundzero where he got his adapter
  for the 6SE.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Thanks Takezo,
   
  I hope that Groundzero and Glenn is reading this and may point me to the right path in getting the adapter.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Thanks Takezo,
> 
> I hope that Groundzero and Glenn is reading this and may point me to the right path in getting the adapter.


 
*OutdoorXplorer* , you may try to contact Glenn on Ebay, some of us ordered the 6FG8 to 6N7 adapters from him, a very nice gentleman and the adapters are very good built.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Thanks Daniel01, I have left him an email and looking forward to an early reply... Surprisingly Jack is not in favor of such conversion.... just received an reply from him...


----------



## Xcalibur255

If there were any issues regarding the amp I think he would tell peole outright not to do it and he has not done so, so I can only imagine two possibilities:  shortened tube life for the 6SN7 tube on the WA6-SE (which probably isn't a big deal anyway considering how long they last), and a fear that suddenly making the cheaper Woo amps sound better might hurt sales of the WA22.  Considering how big of an improvement I got with my Tung-Sol 6SN7GT I think the latter is a real possibility.  Some of the improved sound of the more expensive Woo amps has to be because they simply use better performing tubes.


----------



## takezo

i've used the 6sn7, 6dn7, 7n7 and 6cg7/6fq7 on the wa6SE for almost two years and
  none have gone wrong yet. i honestly think the tubes will last longer than the caps
  inside the units.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Takezo,
   
  Groundzero is trying to assist me in getting the subject right. Is there any the caps need to be upgraded. I had opted for the premium parts upgrade package from Jack when the amp was made in 2009.
   

  
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> i've used the 6sn7, 6dn7, 7n7 and 6cg7/6fq7 on the wa6SE for almost two years and
> none have gone wrong yet. i honestly think the tubes will last longer than the caps
> inside the units.


----------



## takezo

can you tell me all the values of the blackgate caps in your amp?
  i need the voltage rating actually.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

These are the upgrade that I paid for:
   
   

 Blackgate voltage filter caps, 150uf/350V
 Blackgate bypass caps, 220uf/16V
 Blackgate bypass caps, 22uf/350V
 MILLS voltage filter resistor, 3.3K/12W
 KIWAME load resistor, 56K/2W
 KIWAME resistor, 1K/2W

  Understood from Glenn that the adapter will have 1.4k resistor and bypass capacitor built-in. Jack replied "The conversion shall not damage the amp if you understand the risk of using the 6SN7, you can buy a pair of adaptors from us."
   
  Glad that this getting nearer to have 6SN7 tubes on my amp. Await your next instruction.

  Quote: 





takezo said:


> can you tell me all the values of the blackgate caps in your amp?
> i need the voltage rating actually.


----------



## takezo

i believe your unit is safe to use the 6sn7 with glenn's adapter. what isn't listed is
  the cap/resistor going to the cathode of the power secton. i get the feeling it will
  be a blackgate 330 uf/100v. even with the 6sn7, it will not go over 80v on my
  unit but i can't be certain about your maxxed unit. using a multimeter to measure
  it will be ideal but i think it'll be ok. changing the 330 uf/ 100v cap to something
  rated at 200v is ideally safer but it's almost impossible to find blackgates rated
  at that voltage nowadays. 220 uf/200v is something i used to see available but
  very difficult to find now and they are expensive if you do locate some. ($50+ each)
  (you must change it out to a cap rated at least 160v if you want to use the 6fd7)
   
  it's just a guess, but part of the reason why wooaudio doesn't want to make
  a general blanket statement that it is safe to use on the 6SE is that not all
  wa6SE are the same internally. over the years they've changed the layout
  and some minor part specs. i think they're right to err on the side of caution.
   
  i think it's safe to use glenn's adapter on your unit but the final decision is,
  of course, yours to make.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Thanks again Takezo, I am all out for it 6SN7 now.
  
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> i believe your unit is safe to use the 6sn7 with glenn's adapter. what isn't listed is
> the cap/resistor going to the cathode of the power secton. i get the feeling it will
> be a blackgate 330 uf/100v. even with the 6sn7, it will not go over 80v on my
> unit but i can't be certain about your maxxed unit. using a multimeter to measure
> ...


----------



## kingtz

Quote: 





kingtz said:


> Just wondering, does Woo offer any special discounts to Headfiers? You know, with their being sponsors and all.


 

 Just an update for anyone else who might be interested. The answer is no.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Thank you for all the feedbacks.. I have paid for the 6DE7 adapter for WA6SE made by Glenn and awaiting shipping now. Meanwhile I am shopping for 6SN7 tubes.
   
  I did received a positive note from Jack to used on a WA6SE Maxxed. To be safe Glenn will have 1.4k resistor and bypass capacitor built in the adapter.


----------



## SpudHarris

Any of you guys using Shuguang CV181-Z's in a WA6 with a Sophia Princess?
   
  I'm asking because even with normal 6SN7's (on adapters) the tubes are only a couple of mm from the Sophia, with the shape of the Treasures I wondered if they would fit??
   
  In the 6SN7 I have found my 'Flavour' I think, so I'm awaiting my Sylvania Chrome Tops but can't help wondering if the Treasures would better them. I don't mind spending on the right 6SN7 now I know it's 'The One' for me


----------



## che15

Does anyone else experiences a humming sound from the wa6 after you have it on for a couple of hours.
 I used 5u4gb, 5u4g, and 6dr7 , 6de7,6fd7. The noice does not interfere with the music , but it concerns me that there may be something wrong with the amp. 
 Thanks. For your replys


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Does anyone else experiences a humming sound from the wa6 after you have it on for a couple of hours.
> I used 5u4gb, 5u4g, and 6dr7 , 6de7,6fd7. The noice does not interfere with the music , but it concerns me that there may be something wrong with the amp.
> Thanks. For your replys


 

 Yes. My WA6 has hummed since the first day I got it--September 21 of last year. It doesn't come through the headphones though, just from the box behind the rectifier tube. And it's louder with some tubes than others. I only hear it when I am very close to the amp--about a foot away. It is still a very wonderful amp and it hasn't given me any problems whatsoever. The tube that doesn't make my WA6 hum is the 5R4G. I know someone whose WA6 doesn't hum at all no matter which tube he uses. Hand-built amps vary slightly in performance I suppose.


----------



## hodgjy

Are you talking about sound from the unit itself, or sound coming through the headphones?
   
  I have the Woo 3, and I have experienced both.  I get some transformer hum depending on the power tube I use.  Some tubes make it hum, others don't.  Also, some tubes made a humming noise in my headphones.  
   
  There was nothing wrong with my amp, and I doubt there is anything wrong with yours.  Some tubes just cause humming, either to the unit itself or through the headphones.  The Woo 3 and Woo 6 are quite simple designs, so there's not a lot that can go wrong with them.  Most problems are usually attributable to tubes.
  
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> Does anyone else experiences a humming sound from the wa6 after you have it on for a couple of hours.
> I used 5u4gb, 5u4g, and 6dr7 , 6de7,6fd7. The noice does not interfere with the music , but it concerns me that there may be something wrong with the amp.
> Thanks. For your replys


----------



## che15

hodgjy said:


> Are you talking about sound from the unit itself, or sound coming through the headphones?
> 
> I have the Woo 3, and I have experienced both.  I get some transformer hum depending on the power tube I use.  Some tubes make it hum, others don't.  Also, some tubes made a humming noise in my headphones.
> 
> There was nothing wrong with my amp, and I doubt there is anything wrong with yours.  Some tubes just cause humming, either to the unit itself or through the headphones.  The Woo 3 and Woo 6 are quite simple designs, so there's not a lot that can go wrong with them.  Most problems are usually attributable to tubes.






 The noise comes mainly from the amp
 Itself, but I do hear very little from the headphones as well , but only when I stop the music and it is very low level noise.
 I am glad that there is nothing wrong with the amp.
 Thanks guys


----------



## che15

clayton sf said:


> Yes. My WA6 has hummed since the first day I got it--September 21 of last year. It doesn't come through the headphones though, just from the box behind the rectifier tube. And it's louder with some tubes than others. I only hear it when I am very close to the amp--about a foot away. It is still a very wonderful amp and it hasn't given me any problems whatsoever. The tube that doesn't make my WA6 hum is the 5R4G. I know someone whose WA6 doesn't hum at all no matter which tube he uses. Hand-built amps vary slightly in performance I suppose.






 Mr Clayton , thanks for your reply , I wonder how do you like the sound of the 5r4g with your WA6. I have a amperex buggle boy 5ar4 on it's way to me. I wonder how that one will do.
 Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

Also, as Clayton noted, these are hand built, so there is bound to be some variation.  You are most likely experiencing transformer hum, which is completely normal.  Woo hand-winds their transformers, so some will hum more than others.  Mine hums like a bee with an RCA power tube, but is dead quiet with a Tung-Sol.
  
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> The noise comes mainly from the amp
> Itself, but I do hear very little from the headphones as well , but only when I stop the music and it is very low level noise.
> I am glad that there is nothing wrong with the amp.
> Thanks guys


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SpudHarris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ... I'm asking because even with normal 6SN7's (on adapters) ...


 

 Nigel, how much did the adapters cost delivered to UK in our money? And does the build quality look durable?
   
  Thanks
   
  Steve


----------



## SpudHarris

Hiya Steve, long time no speak 
   
  I ordered on 18th July and $40 equated to £26.83 at that time. That was all including delivery and Paypal. Well worth it and the adapters look bullet proof. If I had one crib it would be the colour of the tops vary slightly but thats just me being picky. I think Jack Woo is King!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Mr Clayton , thanks for your reply , I wonder how do you like the sound of the 5r4g with your WA6. I have a amperex buggle boy 5ar4 on it's way to me. I wonder how that one will do.
> Thanks


 

 che15--I own an Amperex 5AR4/GZ34 made in Gt. Britian. I don't know much about it but it is my favorite of NOS tubes. It has an orange label with a world logo on it. Does anyone know about this tube? It may be from the 1980s but I don't know. As for the 5R4G, I have a 5R4GY by RCA which is a coke bottle tube and a 5R4GYA by GE which is just a regular shaped tube. The RCA sounds warmer and the bass has more impact than the GE. The Amperex is just wonderful sounding on the whole--my favorite. That's the extent of my sonic vocabulary.
  --Clayton


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Hiya Steve, long time no speak
> 
> I ordered on 18th July and $40 equated to £26.83 at that time. That was all including delivery and Paypal. Well worth it and the adapters look bullet proof. If I had one crib it would be the colour of the tops vary slightly but thats just me being picky. I think Jack Woo is King!


 

 Thanks that's not bad - worth it from a known amp maker I think rather than an unknown Ebay seller. The 6sn7s sound like they'll fit my taste so I'll have a punt on a pair.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Does anyone else experiences a humming sound from the wa6 after you have it on for a couple of hours.
> I used 5u4gb, 5u4g, and 6dr7 , 6de7,6fd7. The noice does not interfere with the music , but it concerns me that there may be something wrong with the amp.
> Thanks. For your replys


 

 I don't have any experience with the WA6, but I did have a very noticeable humming with my WA22 when no music was playing (note that the hum did NOT increase with volume... it was just a low-level hum regardless of the volume).  I ended up sending the amp back to Jack, and he added additional isolation on the transformers.  When I got it back, I still had some hum but it was less noticeable.  That was almost a year ago (I believe I got the amp last October).  I don't know when or how it happened, but any hum that was there is now completely gone and my amp is as silent as outer-space.


----------



## jax

There are a few different ways that transformer hum might be reduced/eliminated:
   
  The simplest to try, but probably least aesthetically pleasing to look at, is to place a dense, heavy weight on top of the transformer.  A long time ago VPI manufactured a lead weight in a wooden skin they called "The VPI Magic Brick".  It came with all kinds of magic claims and was even met with some good reviews.  One of those would do the job quite nicely.  Of course you could make your own magic brick - buy some heavy filler, like shotgun shot from a reloading supply, and put it in a sturdy box.  I've used this method before and it does help reduce the hum significantly.
   
  The next is to open up the offending component and tighten up the fasteners that hold the transformer to the chassis.  This can be more difficult on some components and very easy on others.  No idea how hard it is on a Woo.  Mine does not hum at all. 
   
  Finally, you can add isolation on the bolts that connect transformer to chassis.  This would be in the form of a rubberized washer or spacer that goes between the binding surfaces of nut/bolt and the chassis. 
   
  Indeed the problem is common to transformers and can be annoying in a small room.


----------



## Skylab

clayton sf said:


> che15--I own an Amperex 5AR4/GZ34 made in Gt. Britian. I don't know much about it but it is my favorite of NOS tubes. It has an orange label with a world logo on it. Does anyone know about this tube? It may be from the 1980s but I don't know. As for the 5R4G, I have a 5R4GY by RCA which is a coke bottle tube and a 5R4GYA by GE which is just a regular shaped tube. The RCA sounds warmer and the bass has more impact than the GE. The Amperex is just wonderful sounding on the whole--my favorite. That's the extent of my sonic vocabulary.
> --Clayton









 Those are Mullard-made 5AR4's - you can tell by the sawtooth pattern on the plates. One of the most well regarded 5AR4's around. They are still not astronomically expensive because Mullard made a lot of them - I have some branded Amperex and even some branded GE.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Those are Mullard-made 5AR4's - you can tell by the sawtooth pattern on the plates.


 

 The plate structure of Mullard 5AR4's was not always sawtooth. There are Mullard 5AR4's with smooth-edged plates.  Another giveaway for Blackburn manufactured Mullard 5AR4 tubes is the hole in the guide pin at the bottom of the tube. I think BEL also used that at some point - some of their 5AR4 tubes are supposed to be very good as well.  Also Mullard 5AR4's have an etched date code in the glass. There were many rebranded 5AR4's that were manufactured by Mullard that otherwise do not have indication as such, instead branded with one of various different companies that contracted Mullard to manufacture tubes for them.  Most likely if it is a 5AR4 and it indicates it was manufactured in Gt. Britain, then it was manufactured by Mullard.  There have been fakes that were made to appear to be a Mullard 5AR4 and are actually copies made in Russia or China.  Here's a good gallery of 5AR4's for some reference. Most of the fakes I've seen lack the date code and or the hole in the guide pin.


----------



## Skylab

Right- not all Mullards were sawtooth - but all sawtooth plate 5AR4's are Mullards


----------



## jax

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right- not all Mullards were sawtooth - but all sawtooth plate 5AR4's are Mullards


 

 I don't think that's correct: Sovtek made a sawtooth 5AR4.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jax said:


> The plate structure of Mullard 5AR4's was not always sawtooth.   Here's a good gallery of 5AR4's for some reference. Most of the fakes I've seen lack the date code and or the hole in the guide pin


 
  Thanks for the link. It always amazes me how many varieties of 5AR4/GZ34 were made. And back then I don't think people really paid any attention to what was in their systems. Back then, like in the 1950s, 60s. My dad used to just swap them out and put the old ones in the new replacement boxes and give them to me. You wonder how many tubes marked NIB are actually the old ones. That's why I leave it to the experts like you guys. Thanks for the links and helpful information, Skylab and jax.
   
  And by the way, I've heard reference to that hole in the pin as the sign of quality. How such? Couldn't that be counterfeited as well? Where's my drill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Eek!


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> Thanks that's not bad - worth it from a known amp maker I think rather than an unknown Ebay seller. The 6sn7s sound like they'll fit my taste so I'll have a punt on a pair.


 

 I'm having great results with new production Elecro-Harmonix off e-bay seller boneymchelsea. They are nice because I wasn't expecting much but they actually turned out to be fantastic sounding tubes. I also have a set of new production Tung-Sols on route from the same seller and a set of NOS Sylvania Chrome Tops coming from the US.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks for the link. It always amazes me how many varieties of 5AR4/GZ34 were made. And back then I don't think people really paid any attention to what was in their systems. Back then, like in the 1950s, 60s. My dad used to just swap them out and put the old ones in the new replacement boxes and give them to me. You wonder how many tubes marked NIB are actually the old ones. That's why I leave it to the experts like you guys. Thanks for the links and helpful information, Skylab and jax.
> 
> And by the way, I've heard reference to that hole in the pin as the sign of quality. How such? Couldn't that be counterfeited as well? Where's my drill.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Generally the hole in the guide pin is an associated indicator of a Mullard tube.  Mullard had plants in many locations. On the etched date code the code will refer first to the location (ie B is for Blackburn).  I'm not sure if holes were in the guidepins of ALL Mullard-manufactured tubes, but certainly all the Blackburn ones as far as I know.  Someone correct me if they know different.  I seem to recall reading that the company that is now selling new Mullard tubes actually bought the Blackburn manufacturing facility.  Not sure how good their new tubes are - anyone have any direct experience with them?


----------



## Skylab

Two different things. New Sensor Corp owns the Mullard brand, and markets Russian- made new production tubes under that brand.

 Totally separately there was a company called Blackburn Microtech that had started to make tubes again at the famous Blackburn plant, under the brand TechTube. I got a pair of their 12AX7 equivalents which I thought were quite good. Unfortunately the company went bankrupt before they had time to get much traction. 



 Regarding the sawtooth pattern, I was referring just to vintage/NOS varieties, not the copy- cat stuff Sovtek does


----------



## jax

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Two different things. New Sensor Corp owns the Mullard brand, and markets Russian- made new production tubes under that brand.
> 
> Totally separately there was a company called Blackburn Microtech that had started to make tubes again at the famous Blackburn plant, under the brand TechTube. I got a pair of their 12AX7 equivalents which I thought were quite good. Unfortunately the company went bankrupt before they had time to get much traction.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the clarification.  Yes, it was the Microtech company I was thinking of that I'd read about a few years ago, not New Sensor.


----------



## grokit

So is the old Blackburn plant used for production at all these days?


----------



## Skylab

That I am aware of, no. Real pity about Blackburn Microtech. They were producing the first tubes made in the UK in decades. And I really did think they sounded nice. I still have my pair, which I'm keeping as a collector 's item


----------



## grokit

Why doesn't anybody make a high-quality new 7236 tube, is the market too small?


----------



## Skylab

Definitely. It's not headphone amps, or really even all of home audio keeping the tube industry alive - it's the musical instrument business. Demand for tubes for guitar amps far outstrips demand for audio gear. Fortunately there are some famous guitar amps using the 12AX7 and 5AR4. The 6V6 is also used in that amp. I don't know too much about guitar amps, but there are a bunch of major-league tube guitar amps, and from what I understand that creates a lot more demand for new production tubes than home audio gear does. 

 There is a zero precent chance that someone will even start producing new 6AS7G's, much less 7236's. But there seem to be an absolutely limitless supply of NOS RCA 6AS7's, let alone the fact that you can literally buy the Russian equivalent by the case of 100.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Any of you guys using Shuguang CV181-Z's in a WA6 with a Sophia Princess?
> 
> I'm asking because even with normal 6SN7's (on adapters) the tubes are only a couple of mm from the Sophia, with the shape of the Treasures I wondered if they would fit??
> 
> In the 6SN7 I have found my 'Flavour' I think, so I'm awaiting my Sylvania Chrome Tops but can't help wondering if the Treasures would better them. I don't mind spending on the right 6SN7 now I know it's 'The One' for me


 

 I was wondering that myself the other day.  The Shuguangs are a wider ST style glass envelope, so if the normal tubes barely fit it might not be possible.
   
  You may want to look into the Sophia or TJ Full Music (same tube as far as I can tell) 6SN7 before dropping serious coin on the CV181-Z since you seem to be very interested in new production tubes.  They seem to be the middle step between the EH tubes and the Shuguangs.


----------



## che15

jax said:


> The plate structure of Mullard 5AR4's was not always sawtooth. There are Mullard 5AR4's with smooth-edged plates.  Another giveaway for Blackburn manufactured Mullard 5AR4 tubes is the hole in the guide pin at the bottom of the tube. I think BEL also used that at some point - some of their 5AR4 tubes are supposed to be very good as well.  Also Mullard 5AR4's have an etched date code in the glass. There were many rebranded 5AR4's that were manufactured by Mullard that otherwise do not have indication as such, instead branded with one of various different companies that contracted Mullard to manufacture tubes for them.  Most likely if it is a 5AR4 and it indicates it was manufactured in Gt. Britain, then it was manufactured by Mullard.  There have been fakes that were made to appear to be a Mullard 5AR4 and are actually copies made in Russia or China.  Here's a good gallery of 5AR4's for some reference. Most of the fakes I've seen lack the date code and or the hole in the guide pin.






 Mr Skylab what about mine I just paid 50$ for it on eBay it is a white label amperex buggle boy made in Holland. Do you know anything about this tube I have seen some selling on the Internet for 150 from some big tube supply companies like Brent tune supply.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I was wondering that myself the other day.  The Shuguangs are a wider ST style glass envelope, so if the normal tubes barely fit it might not be possible.
> 
> You may want to look into the Sophia or TJ Full Music (same tube as far as I can tell) 6SN7 before dropping serious coin on the CV181-Z since you seem to be very interested in new production tubes.  They seem to be the middle step between the EH tubes and the Shuguangs.


 
   
  The Treasures are £115 a matched pair and the Sophia/Full Music are £75 a matched pair here in the UK, so yes there is a difference in price. The Sophia/Full Music tubes are similar shape to the Treasures so unless I can find a normal shaped rectifier to match the Sophia Princess performance I may be weeing in the wind anyway.....


----------



## jax

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Why doesn't anybody make a high-quality new 7236 tube, is the market too small?


 

 Time for some DIY.  Check out this video for a quick start....watch it all the way through...it's pretty amazing!  Sorry about the ad - couldn't find a version without one.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Mr Skylab what about mine I just paid 50$ for it on eBay it is a white label amperex buggle boy made in Holland. Do you know anything about this tube I have seen some selling on the Internet for 150 from some big tube supply companies like Brent tune supply.


 
   
  It's probably made at the Phillips-Mullard plant in Holland.  Should be a fine tube if it's testing good.  You can find out more from the date code that is etched on the glass towards the bottom of the tube.  Probably starts with an "O" or maybe an "X".  I don't have the list of how to decode it but I'm sure you can find it online somewhere, or perhaps Skylab knows.


----------



## hodgjy

Too bad these aren't the most musical tubes out there.  I think only the Chinese tubes are worse in terms of musicality.  Atma-Sphere uses the Svetanas exclusively because they push the tubes do dang hard, and probably not because of anything they bring sonically.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> let alone the fact that you can literally buy the Russian equivalent by the case of 100.


----------



## hodgjy

That is freaking awesome!  Although, I don't trust myself to ever try that at home.  If the world ever came to all of us having to make our vacuum tubes, I think I'd switch to solid state.
  
  Quote: 





jax said:


> Time for some DIY.  Check out this video for a quick start....watch it all the way through...it's pretty amazing!  Sorry about the ad - couldn't find a version without one.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Too bad these aren't the most musical tubes out there.  I think only the Chinese tubes are worse in terms of musicality.  Atma-Sphere uses the Svetanas exclusively because they push the tubes do dang hard, and probably not because of anything they bring sonically.


 

 Svetlana have made a few good tubes in the past (cannot speak for current production though).  Their 300B's that New Sensor was importing were pretty damn good, and not that expensive.  I've also liked their KT88's in years past (winged "C" version).   Ralph probably uses Svets because they are a good balance of price and performance and general reliability.  Those amps depend on a whole lot of tubes - stick a premium current production tube (or NOS even worse) in there and he'd have to raise his prices.   I agree that many, not all, of the inexpensive Chinese tubes are awful.  Shuguang Black Treasures have been very good in my specific application.  I've heard others do not like them as much.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Does anyone else experiences a humming sound from the wa6 after you have it on for a couple of hours.
> I used 5u4gb, 5u4g, and 6dr7 , 6de7,6fd7. The noice does not interfere with the music , but it concerns me that there may be something wrong with the amp.
> Thanks. For your replys


 
   
  if you hear slight humming from your headphone with the wa6 then it's possible
  your tubes are prone to humming but more probable that too much AC ripple is
  leaking thru either the power supply section or even the front driver section
  to the plates. we're talking about 1 to 5 vac here. if you're comfortable with a multimeter,
  measuring the output tube's pin # 1 and #6 will reveal what's going on. there
  shouldn't be more than 70 vdc on pin #6; preferably in the low 60's.


----------



## hodgjy

I agree.  But, their 6H13C, while being super tough, isn't the most musical.  Other Svets have good reputations.
  
  Quote: 





jax said:


> Svetlana have made a few good tubes in the past (cannot speak for current production though).


----------



## Zombie_X

Got a question guys..
   
  I have always had my WA3+ plugged into a 4 outlet transformer. When my WA3+ was plugged into it, the WA3+ would get very hot to the touch. Now I swapped that out for a Triplite and the amp does not run hot anymore. My thinking was that the 4-Outlet transformer did not have enough juice so the WA3+ struggled for power and started to get hot. Makes sense right?
   
  This is one area I'm not good at. I know nothing of transformers or power crap. Could you guys tell me why?
   
  Oh and the sound is a bit better when hooked up to the Triplite. Everything sounds fuller and more defined. Not only that but the tubes glow brighter. That's how I cam to the other conclusion.


----------



## hodgjy

It's also highly possible some DC snuck in from your 4-outlet thingymahiggy.  That will certainly make the Woo transformer run at less than optimal conditions and reduce sound quality.  I don't think it has anything to do with not having enough juice to go around.  Your house is 15 amps, and most likely 14 gauge wire, which shoud be more than enough to go around.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Got a question guys..
> 
> I have always had my WA3+ plugged into a 4 outlet transformer. When my WA3+ was plugged into it, the WA3+ would get very hot to the touch. Now I swapped that out for a Triplite and the amp does not run hot anymore. My thinking was that the 4-Outlet transformer did not have enough juice so the WA3+ struggled for power and started to get hot. Makes sense right?
> 
> ...


----------



## che15

takezo said:


> if you hear slight humming from your headphone with the wa6 then it's possible
> your tubes are prone to humming but more probable that too much AC ripple is
> leaking thru either the power supply section or even the front driver section
> to the plates. we're talking about 1 to 5 vac here. if you're comfortable with a multimeter,
> ...






 I will look into that Mr Takezo, thank you very much for your help.
 I will let you know what I fund out.


----------



## Zombie_X

The WA3+ has been running very cool after I switched to the new strip though. The old one got hot and it was a switching one. It would up the Voltage when needed then decrease it when it was not needed. I noticed my ROC also ran cooler and sounded much better.
   
  Well I know the Triplite is of higher quality than this thing (it's like a 15 year old transformer). So yeah...
   
  hodgjy. you are probably right about it though.


----------



## K_19

Well, I'm finally back from my 2 week trip and to see my newly repaired WA6SE box in my room was a welcome sight to be certain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I've spent most of yesterday trying the 6SE out with my HD800 with various tube combinations... and here are few early thoughts:
   
  - You notice the power difference of the 6SE to the original 6 pretty much immediately... this thing delivers plenty of power!  Definitely enough to satisfy the HD800 IMO... every part of the sound has more weight and authority to it.
   
  - The above point enables something that wasn't possible with my HD800 previously; enjoyable low level volume listening.  Before with my regular WA6, it simply did not have enough bass at low volume level for enjoyable listening, and when I would raise the volume a tad to compensate, it would spike the treble too much.  With 6SE this is not an issue.
   
  - With the GE/Mullard 5AR4 and RCA 6EW7's installed, the combo finally tamed what I thought was untamable... the HD800 sibilance.  With this combo there's simply no more exaggerated sibilance with HD800; you only get them in songs that had noticeable sibilance in the first place, and in others it's simply not noticeable anymore.
   
  - Things are not perfect though, as I feel that the above combo rolled off the low bass slightly and compressed the soundstage of the HD800 compared to the 6DE7/SP 274B combo on my WA6.  From early tube rolling, I feel that the 6EW7's are mainly the culprit of this, which is a shame because they're also mostly responsible for the tamed HD800 sibilance.. perhaps I just have to get used to its sound (My ears lived with the slightly exaggerated bass of HD25 for about two weeks on my vacation, after all) or tube roll for better combos.  HD800 is just one finicky beast...
   
  For now, I'm just mostly happy that I finally have it functional in my stable.


----------



## Skylab

Actually, I think you are right about the 6EW7.  Yesterday I rolled a pair of 6EW7's in my WA6 for the first time, and I was immediately struck that there was less bass with my LCD-2 than there had been with the 6DE7 - and less than there should be.  I'm going back to the 6DE7.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jax said:


> It's probably made at the Phillips-Mullard plant in Holland.  Should be a fine tube if it's testing good.  You can find out more from the date code that is etched on the glass towards the bottom of the tube.  Probably starts with an "O" or maybe an "X".  I don't have the list of how to decode it but I'm sure you can find it online somewhere, or perhaps Skylab knows.


 


 I have the date code books for RCA and Sylvania, but not Mullard.  I have a great PDF reproduction of the Mullard Tube Book, but it is only technical data, not date codes, but this is pretty complete, I think:  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Too bad these aren't the most musical tubes out there.  I think only the Chinese tubes are worse in terms of musicality.  Atma-Sphere uses the Svetanas exclusively because they push the tubes do dang hard, and probably not because of anything they bring sonically.


 

 Totally agree - not a big fan of the Svetlana 6H13C either - but if it was all we had, it would be OK


----------



## jax

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have the date code books for RCA and Sylvania, but not Mullard.  I have a great PDF reproduction of the Mullard Tube Book, but it is only technical data, not date codes, but this is pretty complete, I think:  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm


 
  Thanks for that - I knew it was online somewhere.  So "X" as the prefix would indicate the Phillips Mullard plant in Sittard.  I think there was a second plant in Holland, but can't recall the city.  Looks like "O" is for omitted from that list


----------



## musicman59

I am a happy new memebr of the Woo Audio family.
  If you want to see my new jewel click in this link.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty#post_6840812


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am a happy new memebr of the Woo Audio family.
> If you want to see my new jewel click in this link.
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty#post_6840812


 

 Oh my......
   
  That is just awesome, I can  only imagine what that sounds like. I'll never be able to afford something so beautiful  Congrats!


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm having great results with new production Elecro-Harmonix off e-bay seller boneymchelsea. They are nice because I wasn't expecting much but they actually turned out to be fantastic sounding tubes. I also have a set of new production Tung-Sols on route from the same seller and a set of NOS Sylvania Chrome Tops coming from the US.


 

 Seems the 6SN7 are out for me as the adapters don't fit the older standard WA6 models. Will have to settle for something else thats fits as standard.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> Seems the 6SN7 are out for me as the adapters don't fit the older standard WA6 models. Will have to settle for something else thats fits as standard.


 
   
  I'm not sure why they don't fit your model, but I can hazard a guess that the sockets are recessed beneath holes too small to allow the adapter to fit.  If this is the case, you can purchase an extender which is essentially a 9-pin male to 9-pin female extension that effectively raises the socket by a specific height - it would not be as wide as the adapter so should be able to fit into a hole the size of a small-bottle 9-pin tube.   They make the stack a bit more awkward, but they do work (I have a set for my Modwright Transporter).


----------



## che15

steviedvd said:


> Seems the 6SN7 are out for me as the adapters don't fit the older standard WA6 models. Will have to settle for something else thats fits as standard.






 I have the same model WA6 and I have the extendors that Jax is talking about. That will work , but Larry (headphoneaddict) ordered a pair of adapters from a guy here in the states that do fit the older 
 WA6 . They were 40$ + 5 for shipping. The guys name and you can find him on eBay . Let me know if you want his name and I will get it for u. I am going to order adapters in the future.
 Take care.


----------



## che15

His eBay name is 2359glenn


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jax said:


> Thanks for that - I knew it was online somewhere.  So "X" as the prefix would indicate the Phillips Mullard plant in Sittard.  I think there was a second plant in Holland, but can't recall the city.  Looks like "O" is for omitted from that list


 

 The second plant was in Heerlen, which was signified with a 9 if I read the codes right.


----------



## Silent One

Greetings! I'm a long time reader but first time contributor. Received my first Woo on 9 July 2010 - a black WA 6 SE with 
  Sophia Princess; RCA 6EW7. Now at 322 hours listening. Started off with a new AC power cord & mini > RCA cable. New TS > RCA @ 27 hrs. New TS > RCA @ 75 hrs.
   
  The Woo wouldn't reveal itself until 221 hours later - it was startling. During burn-in one night, I picked up the cans to see what was playing and this rhythm guitar came out of nowhere - the extreme right to be exact. Background vocals also moved away from front & center. Nile Rodgers had me entranced! Previously, the sound out of the box had been good but narrow and a bit moody. 
   
  Even on days when I'm too busy to listen, the amp is a beautiful thing to behold. Next up, wanna roll a tube or two. Now that I'm familiar with the sound of the 6EW7 w/Sophia, can someone please describe for me the sound/character of the following:
  6FD7 / 6DR7 / 6CY7
   
  Thanks.
  --
  Mac mini > Play v3.1 > AIFF > E MU 0404 USB > WA6 SE > Denon AH-D5000


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Glenn is a great guy to deal will. My order is now shipped across the Atlantic Ocean and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 GTA is on its way too. Still shopping for additional tubes though.


----------



## SpudHarris

Been waiting on a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTB for a week or so:
   

   
  They turned up this morning (actual tubes above) along with the production version Tung-Sols. I'll reserve judgement on the Tung-Sols because I haven't tried them yet but they look identical (apart from the base colour) to the Electro-Harmonix 6SN7's as Xcaliber suspected so I think I know what to expect.
   
  Well, I was told but I had to find out for myself   NOS Sylvania beat Production Electro-Harmonix by a country mile, my WA6 just stepped up another notch and I can't believe there is such a difference. This is some amp.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Based on all the positive feedbacks from here, I proceeded to order the adapter from Glenn without much worries... I shall post the impressions at later time when the adapter and tubes are received.
  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> And I'm just letting you know what the tube adapter vendor from eBay said.  I don't know which is right, and I'm not saying one or the other is wrong.  I have the original WA6 that can use 6SN7, other than the fact that Jack's adapters wont fit my older amp because the tube holes are too small.  So, I went looking elsewhere.
> 
> This is the reply I got from the eBay guy:
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Well, I was told but I had to find out for myself   NOS Sylvania beat Production Electro-Harmonix by a country mile, my WA6 just stepped up another notch and I can't believe there is such a difference. This is some amp.


 

 I know sometimes the truth can be hard to accept 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But as you discovered, even non-exotic vintage/NOS 6SN7's are significantly better than current production ones.  For some reason, the 6SN7 seems hard to get right for the current makers.  And since you can still get NOS Sylvania, RCA, and GE 6SN7GTB's for $20 each or less...
   
  Anyway, enjoy them man!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Based on all the positive feedbacks from here, I proceeded to order the adapter from Glenn without much worries... I shall post the impressions at later time when the adapter and tubes are received.


 

 I get back from Vacation tonight, and will be able to try out my Sylvania VT-231 this week.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'll be able to offer some impressions on the WA6 + RCA VT-231 Greyglass in a few days.  It is great to see so much tube rolling activity in this thread again.  For a long time it just wasn't being talked about and I was missing it.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Actually, I think you are right about the 6EW7.  Yesterday I rolled a pair of 6EW7's in my WA6 for the first time, and I was immediately struck that there was less bass with my LCD-2 than there had been with the 6DE7 - and less than there should be.  I'm going back to the 6DE7.


 

 Yup, after more tube rolling yesterday I definitely like the 6DE7's better with most genres, mostly due to its better bass and attack.  It does make the sibilance a little more noticeable than the ultra soft 6EW7's, but thankfully not prominent enough to bother me as long as it's paired with the Ge/Mullard 5AR4.  I can see 6EW7's being better for certain genres but 6DE7's seem like a better all arounder in my rig.
   
  Pretty happy now with the DA100/mentioned tubes+WA6SE/HD800 combo.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I also threw in a Monster m1000i interconnect for good measure (which I find fattens the bass and rolls off the treble even further... well, if you believe in IC differences of course... I personally do), and this combo has finally levelled the sibilance/treble spike of HD800 down to tolerable levels while still having enough juice in other areas.  I'll probably invest in the EML 5U4G someday but I'm happy enough at the moment not to hurry too much in acquiring one.


----------



## Skylab

I have a Mullard 5AR4 - I should try that in place of my Hytron 5U4G and see what differences are wrought...


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'll be able to offer some impressions on the WA6 + RCA VT-231 Greyglass in a few days.  It is great to see so much tube rolling activity in this thread again.  For a long time it just wasn't being talked about and I was missing it.


 
   
  That's the beauty of amps like these because we all have different tastes, sources, phones etc.... Eventually you hope to find something to suit your personal preference. I love the 6SN7 Sylvanias but seeing as I have just made a big improvement just by going NOS I think the WA6 still has more to give. Might start saving for something a little more exotic now I'm getting a feel for tubes, suggestions anyone??.
   
  Incidently, I used to post on the opamp thread and was an avid roller there but my solid state stuff barely sees the light of day since the WA6 arrived. Although I do carry a P3+ and iMod in my man bag 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...... Only because I can't power the WA6 whilst out and about hehe.


----------



## Skylab

I have not used 6SN7's in my WA6, so these comments are based on my experience with other amps. 

 Some good bang for the buck 6SN7's are the Sylvania 6SN7WGT, the KenRad VT231, and the Tung-Sol tall bottle 6SN7WGT. The KenRad is known as a bass monster, a rep that it only partially deserves IMO, but if you want more bass its a good place to start. 

 Or you could just go right to the Tung Sol black glass round plates and skip all the interim steps


----------



## Xcalibur255

I would suggest the T-plate TungSols, either with or without the "mouse ears".  They are somewhat rare, but you can't beat the bang for the buck.  I'd love to hear a roundplate someday, but my gut tells me the T-plate offers most of its performance for a tiny fraction of the cost.  They don't offer a "fun" or lush sound so if you like coloration the tone may not suit you, but the level of detail is really something else.  They make every individual note seem three dimensional, something most people suggest only happens when you pony up for a megabuck amplifier.  I paid $50 for my excellent NOS pair and intend to find at least one more as a backup.  The low level detail in particular is beyond anything I had heard before on headphones.  Once I heard some bass guitar notes on the Tung Sols it was really hard to switch to any other tube.  If the Greyglass RCA can't at least come somewhat close to this kind of detail I'm basically going to quit trying different tubes and just stick with the T-plate TS exclusively.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Yup, after more tube rolling yesterday I definitely like the 6DE7's better with most genres, mostly due to its better bass and attack.  It does make the sibilance a little more noticeable than the ultra soft 6EW7's, but thankfully not prominent enough to bother me as long as it's paired with the Ge/Mullard 5AR4.  I can see 6EW7's being better for certain genres but 6DE7's seem like a better all arounder in my rig.


 
  You haven't tried the 6FD7?  They successfully combine a lot of the qualities of both the 6DE7 and 6EW7 while having stronger bass than either one.


----------



## Zombie_X

Question guys,
   
  Now before I ask the question I wanted to say that tube hardware is not my specialty, so I'm not smart there. What I wanted to ask is by changing power tube on my WA3+ also changing the output power of my amp? I saw for one of the Woo's that output power is doubled when you use the 7236 tubes. I wanted to know if that is the same for the WA3+?


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I have the same model WA6 and I have the extendors that Jax is talking about. That will work , but Larry (headphoneaddict) ordered a pair of adapters from a guy here in the states that do fit the older
> WA6 . They were 40$ + 5 for shipping. The guys name and you can find him on eBay . Let me know if you want his name and I will get it for u. I am going to order adapters in the future.
> Take care.


 




  Quote: 





che15 said:


> His eBay name is 2359glenn


 




  Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Glenn is a great guy to deal will. My order is now shipped across the Atlantic Ocean and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 GTA is on its way too. Still shopping for additional tubes though.


 
   
   
  Thanks guys have dropped an email to Glenn so hopefully can get sorted soon.
   
  Steve


----------



## Skylab

zombie_x said:


> Question guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 The 7236 has twice the amplification factor of the 6AS7G - actually almost 3 times. But I don't know how that plugs into the circuit equation of the WA3 in regards to it offering "twice the output power". In fact, it may not offer any more at all.


----------



## Zombie_X

OK, was wondering because I saw the output power changes on the WA22 when you use the 7236 tubes. Maybe it's design specific.
   
  Oh and I'm using the Tung-Sol 5998 currently Skylab. What's the amplification on that thing?


----------



## Skylab

The figures I quoted above were actually for the 5998 - my understanding is that the 7236 has the same specs. I have never located a data sheet on the 7236, however (it's not in the NJ7P Tube Database).


----------



## hodgjy

The Tung-Sol 5998A and the 7236 are the same tube--the 7236 is "computer rated" meaning it has tighter matching.
   
http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/127/5/5998A.pdf


----------



## Skylab

Well, the 5998A does indeed have the same specs at the 5998 (no great shock there  ).


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Actually, I think you are right about the 6EW7.  Yesterday I rolled a pair of 6EW7's in my WA6 for the first time, and I was immediately struck that there was less bass with my LCD-2 than there had been with the 6DE7 - and less than there should be.  I'm going back to the 6DE7.


 
   
  I have been using the 6FD7 as my tube of choice in my maxxed WA6.  I also tried the 6EW7 and liked the soundstage, but feel that overall, it lacked impact especially in the bass.   The 6FD7 has plenty of impact along with a very 3-D soundstage.  Tonally it just sounds "right".  It also has considerably more gain than the DE or EW.    I am using the RCA fat bottles.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Ron. I just ordered a pair of 6FD7's - I hope to try them next week.


----------



## TheWuss

sylvania fat bottle 6fd7s are awesome.
  as are the GEs that came with my wa6.
  they somehow manage the balancing act of sounding spacious and impactful at the same time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've always enjoyed my fat bottle RCA 6FD7 with the black plates (they are back in the amp right now actually).  It's really a shame my particular pair is such a rare specimen since they are a better performing tube than the regular RCA 6FD7.  Always wanted to try a Sylvania but I was afraid they would be too bright for my system.  The older top getter version is supposed to be nice. 
   
  The GE 6FD7 didn't agree with me personally.  I thought it was much too forward in the midrange, and didn't have the refinement needed to get away with that.  I paid way too much for those tubes too, so maybe I'm just bitter.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You haven't tried the 6FD7?  They successfully combine a lot of the qualities of both the 6DE7 and 6EW7 while having stronger bass than either one.


 

 I'm willing to try pretty much anything for the better... but will the 6FD7 be fully compatible with my WA6SE (and is it one of those ones that need adaptors?)?  That's one of my main concerns since as a prototype unit I really have no idea which tubes are fully compatible with it compared to the ones now...  I guess I have to ask Jack to be certain.  For anyone with an older, early production unit, do the 6FD7's work fine in your 6SE?


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


k_19 said:


> I'm willing to try pretty much anything for the better... but will the 6FD7 be fully compatible with my WA6SE (and is it one of those ones that need adaptors?)?  That's one of my main concerns since as a prototype unit I really have no idea which tubes are fully compatible with it compared to the ones now...  I guess I have to ask Jack to be certain.  For anyone with an older, early production unit, do the 6FD7's work fine in your 6SE?


 

 Only WA6SE made in the past month or so will work with the 6FD7 without modding. No adapter is required, all you have to do is change out the Cathode Capacitors to ones rated at 200v/470uf. These are ones I used http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P11614-ND


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I'm willing to try pretty much anything for the better... but will the 6FD7 be fully compatible with my WA6SE (and is it one of those ones that need adaptors?)?  That's one of my main concerns since as a prototype unit I really have no idea which tubes are fully compatible with it compared to the ones now...  I guess I have to ask Jack to be certain.  For anyone with an older, early production unit, do the 6FD7's work fine in your 6SE?


 

 Sorry, I forgot you had an SE.  As Groundzero said the cathode caps just need to be uprated for higher voltage handling.  The primary reason Jack kept the 6FD7 off the SE model was noise concerns but so far nobody has had any after trying them with the SE.


----------



## Gradofan2

Yeah... I much prefer the 6FD7's in my 6SE - though, I haven't yet upgraded the cathode caps to the higher values.
   
  With the Sylvania 6FD7's, and the Sylvania 5U4G ST - I just can't imagine the sound can get much better with any of my phones... or... any others for that matter.  My HD580M's with the RAL Cryo-Silver cable sound simply sublime, as do my RS-1's and the rest.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

By chance out the Cathode Capacitor, does it change the sound signature of the WA6SE?
  
  Quote: 





groundzero said:


> Quote:
> 
> Only WA6SE made in the past month or so will work with the 6FD7 without modding. No adapter is required, all you have to do is change out the Cathode Capacitors to ones rated at 200v/470uf. These are ones I used http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P11614-ND


----------



## Xcalibur255

There is a possibility of that if you replace the caps with a different brand.  If you replace with the same brand/type of a higher voltage the sound shouldn't change.  Groundzero's link is for a Panasonic TS-ED cap, which has a good reputation.  Unless your amp is maxxed with blackgates it would probably bring a slight improvement in resolution from the amp.
   
  I'm rather fond of Auricaps myself.  They are very neutral and revealing in my Virtue TWO stereo amp.  I've always believed an amp should not color sound.  The tubes and headphones or speakers can take care of that.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

My WA6SE is MAXXED and Blackgate does not have the exact voltage/value to go with.... Sad though and gotta live with that hoping the capacitors will outlive the 6SN7s.
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> There is a possibility of that if you replace the caps with a different brand.  If you replace with the same brand/type of a higher voltage the sound shouldn't change.  Groundzero's link is for a Panasonic TS-ED cap, which has a good reputation.  Unless your amp is maxxed with blackgates it would probably bring a slight improvement in resolution from the amp.
> 
> I'm rather fond of Auricaps myself.  They are very neutral and revealing in my Virtue TWO stereo amp.  I've always believed an amp should not color sound.  The tubes and headphones or speakers can take care of that.


----------



## hawkhead

OK just curious
   
  when people say "work" with the 6FD7 and SE what is meant by that ?
   
  Will they either work or not ?
   
  Work and cause damage ?
   
  Work and shorten the life of the amp ?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

The later WA6SE is made to adopt the 6FD7 with some internal modification of caps and resistors I believe. However those earlier units with Blackgates upgraded my be able to sustain the 6SN7 as the values are greater the the yellow colored caps. Please don't hold me liable as I am risking my unit in exploring the tube upgrade. I didn't have issues with 6FD7 when I had it even it was not recommended.
  Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> OK just curious
> 
> when people say "work" with the 6FD7 and SE what is meant by that ?
> 
> ...


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





magic77 said:


> I have a question for any WA6 owners. I've had my new WA6 for over a week now. I use the Denon D-5000's and the D-2000's. The main problem is that I am getting distorted bass response. With heavier Bass passages, it just starts to distort; the Bass is not tight. I have tried various Tubes; 6CY7, 6DR7, 5AR4 and 5U4G. I have the rear impedance switch in the correct position; I have tried different CD's and 2 different CD players with the same results. I am on the verge of returning the amp for a refund. I really don't want to return it; Am I doing something wrong; or are the Denon's possibly not a good match for the WA6?  I have 2 other Solid-State headphone amps and do not have this problem with the Denon's.
> 
> Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


 


 i found my previous d5000 sound terrible with my wa6.bass was very bloated and soft and the recessed mids were still there.
  d5000 needs i think SS amp to control that explosive bass.but i am a bit harsh cause i hated d5000.
  i never went above 10 oclock with d5000 on high gain and this is relatively high.


----------



## Gradofan2

Don't know about the WA6, but Denons and other low impedance phones sound good with the WA6SE, out of the low impedance jack. 
   
  Though, I would admit... they sound great with the X-CAN v8 - it provides a good match with low impedance phones - not so much with high impedance phones. 
   
  It's possible that the low impedance circuit of your WA6 doesn't provide as good a match as other amps - especially, the X-CAN v8 and various SS and hybrid amps.


----------



## takezo

wa6 and 6SE are both 32 ohms at the low impedance switch.
  the difference in SQ is most probably due to the coupling cap
  for the wa6; if you have cheap coupling cap the bass will sound
  dull and flabby. teflon rated at 0.22 uf is good with a 0.01 uf for
  bypass. this gets the bass quality closer to the 6SE.
  the 6SE is directly coupled and doesn't implement a coupling cap.


----------



## K_19

Question for anyone with the EML 5U4G...
   
  I was almost ready to get this tube when I've read some reports that there is slight treble emphasis/extension with it... which is definitely not something I want with either my HD800s or D2000's as their treble is already on the bothersome side with some tracks (which I use Electri-Q for currently to remedy... I've been realizing that I'm sensitive to the 10k and 12k areas mainly and been dropping those by about 3db).  Is this indeed true?  I'm currently VERY happy with soundstage and mids but would love maybe just a tad more low bass and slightly less treble in areas I've mentioned... any recommendations for worthy rectifier/driver combination would be appreciated (it's really too bad I can't use the 6fd7's easily...).  I feel that the HD800 is now ALMOST where I want them to be... just need those two points addressed.


----------



## Magic77

Thanks. As of this moment, I have returned my WA6 back to Jack Wu. He is going to check it out for me, there may be something wrong with the amp. If he can't find anything wrong with it, I'll have to get a full refund.  I have two other solid-state amps; and I don't have any problems with my Denon headphones. I was looking foward to my first Tube amp, but maybe the Denons are just not a good match for the WA6. I have spent extra money on some different tubes; but none of them in any combination have given me any satisfaction.     
  
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> i found my previous d5000 sound terrible with my wa6.bass was very bloated and soft and the recessed mids were still there.
> d5000 needs i think SS amp to control that explosive bass.but i am a bit harsh cause i hated d5000.
> i never went above 10 oclock with d5000 on high gain and this is relatively high.


----------



## burgunder

HiFlight and Skylab have you tried tthe WA6 with the K340 and if so how do they match? I think I want to try a full tube amp the next time, and the W6 looks like it's pretty versatile.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





burgunder said:


> HiFlight and Skylab have you tried tthe WA6 with the K340 and if so how do they match? I think I want to try a full tube amp the next time, and the W6 looks like it's pretty versatile.


 
   
  With my WA6 running RCA 6FD7 fat-bottles and a Chinese 274b, the K340s sound excellent!  I don't need over 11:00 on the volume.  That is, of course, using the high impedance setting. 
   
  My K340s have, however, been recabled and balanced by Fitz.  I am using my APS SE pigtail from my K1000 to match with the WA6. 
   
  Yes, the WA6 is quite versatile and can host about as many mods as your wallet can stand.  Although mine has the factory Blackgate mods, I put in my own PDPS, adding another large Blackgate to each side and bypassed all of the filter caps as well as adding a 23mfd Blackgate directly from the rectifier..  I also fed pin 6 on each side from one of my midstream Blackgates rather than directly from the rectifier output.  
   
  The result is a pretty hefty power supply that powers the K340 with little effort.
   
  Ron


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys as an update I managed to pick up a Tung-Sol 7236 for about $40. www.tubeworld.com has them from $20-$80.


----------



## hodgjy

Which do you like better--the TS 5998 or the TS 7236?
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey guys as an update I managed to pick up a Tung-Sol 7236 for about $40. www.tubeworld.com has them from $20-$80.


----------



## Zombie_X

I will be getting the TS 7236 tomorrow in the mail. Tube World is about 40 minutes away from me so that's AWESOME!! I can pretty mush drive there and pick up some fresh tubes (and I plan on doing that this weekend).


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Question for anyone with the EML 5U4G...
> 
> I was almost ready to get this tube when I've read some reports that there is slight treble emphasis/extension with it... which is definitely not something I want with either my HD800s or D2000's as their treble is already on the bothersome side with some tracks (which I use Electri-Q for currently to remedy... I've been realizing that I'm sensitive to the 10k and 12k areas mainly and been dropping those by about 3db).  Is this indeed true?  I'm currently VERY happy with soundstage and mids but would love maybe just a tad more low bass and slightly less treble in areas I've mentioned... any recommendations for worthy rectifier/driver combination would be appreciated (it's really too bad I can't use the 6fd7's easily...).  I feel that the HD800 is now ALMOST where I want them to be... just need those two points addressed.


 
  I'm going to get an EML 274B Mesh for the reason you mention.  Anything that makes treble more peaky would be bad for my system, and the 274B is supposed to be a smoothie.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Be careful of that Chinese rectifier tube.  If it is rated at 4 amps like some of them are it can fry your transformer.  Rectifiers for the WA6 need to be at or below 3 amps.
   
  Quote:


hiflight said:


> With my WA6 running RCA 6FD7 fat-bottles and a Chinese 274b, the K340s sound excellent!  I don't need over 11:00 on the volume.  That is, of course, using the high impedance setting.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Just an FYI - I have my headphone rigs torn apart for the Colorado meet, so I haven't tried the 6SN7 with the WA6 yet.  I will after I get back from the meet in Denver.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Hey guys as an update I managed to pick up a Tung-Sol 7236 for about $40. www.tubeworld.com has them from $20-$80.


 
    
  Quote:


hodgjy said:


> Which do you like better--the TS 5998 or the TS 7236?


 

 The 7236 series of tubes is about doubling the output power over the non-7236 power tubes if I am not mistaken, and the Tung-sols seem to be very highly regarded within this series. I have seen sets of 4 matching NOS TS 7236 go for as little as $90 shipped on eBay (I knew I shouldn't have dropped out of that one!), and as much as over $150. I just picked up a tightly matched pair of them from a good seller for $54 shipped. I am looking forward to seeing how they compare to the Sylvania 7236's that I have now.


----------



## Zombie_X

The Tung-Sol tube is supposed to have all the benefits of the Sylvania 7236, but retain all the tube bloom we know and love.


----------



## hodgjy

If my TS 5998A (which is supposedly the same as the TS 7236 except for loser matching--the 7236 is a computer rated 5998A), is any indication, then this statement is true.  I have both the Syl 7236 and the TS 5998A.  However, the difference between the 5998A and the regular 5998 isn't as pronounced as the difference between the TS 5998 and the Syl 7236.  In all honesty, I might actually fail a double blind test between the 5998A and the 5998 on some records.  On others, like punk and metal, the 5998A is very obvious over the regular 5998, but slower recordings like Floyd or Knopfler, that's where I might fail the test.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> The Tung-Sol tube is supposed to have all the benefits of the Sylvania 7236, but retain all the tube bloom we know and love.


----------



## hodgjy

That is sweet!  Tube addiction is bad for me over the mail, but if I lived near a tube store, I'd probably need an intervention, just like the tv show.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Tube World is about 40 minutes away from me so that's AWESOME!! I can pretty mush drive there and pick up some fresh tubes (and I plan on doing that this weekend).


----------



## jc9394

Anyone compared the SE out of WA22 and WA6?  I'm getting WA22 next month and wonder is it worth for me to keep my maxxed WA6.


----------



## Zombie_X

I got the Tung-Sol 7236 today hodgjy. It's a lot different than the Sylvania 7236. It's very lush sounding and the speed is just awesome! This thing has more midrange bloom than the Tung-Sol 5998 and the midrange quality is great. Bass on this is like that of the Syl 7236, but has slightly more body to it. The soundstage is about the same as the Syl 7236 which is a big plus to me. Also the plat construction on this is totally different than my Syl 7236.
   
  hodgjy, you need to pick one up for real man! You think the DT990's sound good now, well just wait till this tube files in their mids! This is a good tube for metal.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone compared the SE out of WA22 and WA6?  I'm getting WA22 next month and wonder is it worth for me to keep my maxxed WA6.


 


 well.... if you're getting the WA22 anyway, then why not wait and do a shoot-out between the two amps.
  then, if the WA6SE seems redundant, sell it at that point.
   
  besides, all us readers would benefit from your musings...


----------



## hodgjy

I might have to roll in my TS 5998A this weekend (essentially it's a TS 7236).
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I got the Tung-Sol 7236 today hodgjy. It's a lot different than the Sylvania 7236. It's very lush sounding and the speed is just awesome! This thing has more midrange bloom than the Tung-Sol 5998 and the midrange quality is great. Bass on this is like that of the Syl 7236, but has slightly more body to it. The soundstage is about the same as the Syl 7236 which is a big plus to me. Also the plat construction on this is totally different than my Syl 7236.
> 
> hodgjy, you need to pick one up for real man! You think the DT990's sound good now, well just wait till this tube files in their mids! This is a good tube for metal.


----------



## Zombie_X

I still say that it sounds far different than the Sylvania version. It has a very liquid sound, but fast like solid state.


----------



## hodgjy

Oh, I agree with you.  My TS 5998A is extremely different than my Syl 7236. 
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I still say that it sounds far different than the Sylvania version. It has a very liquid sound, but fast like solid state.


----------



## Thaddy

Looks like my WA2 will be delivered on Tuesday of next week.  It took Jack exactly one week to have the amp built and shipped from the day I placed my order, not bad!  I have my Tung Sol 5998 waiting but I still need to order the Tung Sol and Sylvania 7236's.


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet.  Post some pics and impressions when you get a chance.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Looks like my WA2 will be delivered on Tuesday of next week.  It took Jack exactly one week to have the amp built and shipped from the day I placed my order, not bad!  I have my Tung Sol 5998 waiting but I still need to order the Tung Sol and Sylvania 7236's.


----------



## grokit

So in the WA22, I can interchange the 5998/A for the 7236 power tubes, and get the same doubling of power that I enjoy so much over the stock 6AS7?
   
  That's what it sounds like, I just want to make sure


----------



## hodgjy

If I understand the spec sheets properly.  The Tung-Sol 5998A is the same tube as the 7236, but the 7236 is "computer rated", meaning it has tighter tolerances.  I don't know how that affects the sound, but they have the same amplification factor.  Note that the 5998 is not the same tube as the 5998A despite what certain spec sheets may say.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> So in the WA22, I can interchange the 5998/A for the 7236 power tubes, and get the same doubling of power that I enjoy so much over the stock 6AS7?
> 
> That's what it sounds like, I just want to make sure


----------



## TheAudioDude

So I retired my long-cherished Tung-Sol 7236s a little while ago once I got my GEC 6080s.  A couple of weeks ago I decided to let my GECs rest for a while and started using my RCA 6AS7G black plates.  Well, I'm happy to say I've come full-circle and am now listening with my TS 7236s... why did I ever take these out of my amp?  They just have a larger sense of power to them.  Sure, there may be a tad more sibilance, but they add authority and liveliness to the music.  It's not that they add emotion, but rather they let you feel the music.
   
  If you can, track down a good matched pair and enjoy.  They're definitely worth the money.  Suffice to say, having a backup pair of any tube you particularly enjoy is a worthwhile investment.


----------



## glitch39

7236's may be computer-rated 5998's, but they DO NOT sound the same. where the 5998 is lush, the 7236 has the slam and extension, almost SS like, while keeping some tube warmth


----------



## hodgjy

The 7236 is the computer-rated version of the 5998A, not the 5998.  I agree that the 7236 and 5998 do not sound the same, but the 5998A and 7236 should be very similar.
  
  Quote: 





glitch39 said:


> 7236's may be computer-rated 5998's, but they DO NOT sound the same. where the 5998 is lush, the 7236 has the slam and extension, almost SS like, while keeping some tube warmth


----------



## grokit

Well my TS 7236 tubes are on the way, I can't wait to hear them!
   
  I understand that the 5998 is interchangeable with the 5998A, but the 5998A is not as desirable as the 5998, and they are both interchangeable with the 7236.
   
  So as far as the higher-powered interchangeable power tubes go:
  TS 7236 > SYL 7236 > TS 5998 > TS 5998A; is that about right, or am I missing something here?


----------



## hodgjy

TS 7236 = TS 5998A
   
  Whether you like the 7236 more or less than the 5998 is a matter of personal choice. 
   
  However, it's widely felt here that TS 7236 > Syl 7236.  So, therefore, TS 5998A > Syl 7236.
   
  Quote:


grokit said:


> So as far as the higher-powered interchangeable power tubes go:
> TS 7236 > SYL 7236 > TS 5998 > TS 5998A; is that about right, or am I missing something here?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone compared the SE out of WA22 and WA6?  I'm getting WA22 next month and wonder is it worth for me to keep my maxxed WA6.


 

 What tubes are you getting?
   
  I got the upgraded tubes, but took out the Sylvania's.  Really like the RCA's.  I've got the system at work and it just blows people away. One recording I like to play is organ music, and it is amazing how the WA22 can reach down and capture the depth of it.
   
  You're gonna love it.


----------



## SpudHarris

Are the 7236's compatible with WA6?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I can't wait for the 6SN7 ~ 6DE7 adapter and the Sylvania NOS 6SN7 GTA tubes to arrive too. I want to hear the difference !!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> TS 7236 = TS 5998A
> Â
> Whether you like the 7236 more or less than the 5998 is a matter of personal choice.
> Â
> However, it's widely felt here that TS 7236 > Syl 7236.  So, therefore, TS 5998A > Syl 7236.


 

 Ah, that's an important distinction, thanks. I just learned that if it is Cetron Brand, it is evidently the same as Tung Sol.
   
  And the Western Electric 421A is some sort of holy grail here...
   

   

```
[i]5998/421A WE gray plate 1955, 421A WE black plate 1960's[/i]
```


----------



## Skylab

spudharris said:


> Are the 7236's compatible with WA6?






 Nope. Not in any way. 

 Also, the Tung-sol 5998A that Hodigy found is a rare bird. The normal GE 5998A is NOT the same, and was not very good sounding IMO. 

 Also, the WE 421A is just a rebranded Tung Sol 5998 and isn't worth any extra money over the 5998, since it's the same tube.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


hodgjy said:


> TS 7236 = TS 5998A
> 
> Whether you like the 7236 more or less than the 5998 is a matter of personal choice.
> 
> However, it's widely felt here that TS 7236 > Syl 7236.  So, therefore, TS 5998A > Syl 7236.


 
    
  Quote:


skylab said:


> Also, the Tung-sol 5998A that Hodigy found is a rare bird. The normal GE 5998A is NOT the same, and was not very good sounding IMO.
> 
> Also, the WE 421A is just a rebranded Tung Sol 5998 and isn't worth any extra money over the 5998, since it's the same tube.


 
   

 So how's this: CTN/TS 7236 > CTN/TS 5998 = WE 421A > TS 5998A > SYL 7236 > GE/SYL 5998A (SQ, w/o $ value) ?


----------



## hodgjy

I see where you're going with this, but still TS 7236 = TS 5998A, so:
   
  TS 7236 = TS 5998A > TS 5998 = WE 421A > SYL 7236 > GE 5998A
   
  Of course, this is all personal preference.  Some, like myself, like the more warm characteristics of the TS 5998 over the TS 7236.  They're both excellent tubes, but the 5998 has a touch more warmth than the 7236.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> So how's this: CTN/TS 7236 > CTN/TS 5998 = WE 421A > TS 5998A > SYL 7236 > GE/SYL 5998A (SQ, w/o $ value) ?


----------



## grokit

Quote:


hodgjy said:


> I see where you're going with this, but still TS 7236 = TS 5998A, so:
> Â
> TS 7236 = TS 5998A > TS 5998 = WE 421A > SYL 7236 > GE 5998A
> Â
> Of course, this is all personal preference.  Some, like myself, like the more warm characteristics of the TS 5998 over the TS 7236.  They're both excellent tubes, but the 5998 has a touch more warmth than the 7236.


 

 I thought they were the same, with different manufacturing tolerances: "7236 is a computer rated 5998A" (Tube World); that's the only reason I rated the 7236 higher, but if you say they sound different I will defer to you on that!
   
  Anyways I understand that this is all somewhat subjective and I believe that I understand the "jist" of these tubes finally; it's nice to know there are choices


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I see where you're going with this, but still:
> TS 7236 = TS 5998A, so: TS 7236 = TS 5998A > TS 5998 = WE 421A > SYL 7236 > GE 5998A


 

 OMG. This feels like a Correlation & Dependence in Statistical Data 101. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OR more like Correlation & [Co-]Dependence....


----------



## hodgjy

I honestly have no way knowing if they sound different, but I would suspect they wouldn't very much, if at all.  The "computer rated" tubes were just a little "heartier" to withstand periods of inactivity followed by large rushes, which is much how computers operate.  I don't pay much attention to the "heartier" claims because supposedly "JAN" (Joint Army Navy) tubes were picked for military use because of their more "ruggedness" but I can't find any sound differences between JAN and non-JAN versions of the same tube by the same manufacturer.  For example, I have a JAN TS 5998 and a non-JAN TS 5998, and they sound identical.  Same for my RCA 6AS7Gs.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> I thought they were the same, with different manufacturing tolerances: "7236 is a computer rated 5998A" (Tube World); that's the only reason I rated the 7236 higher, but if you say they sound different I will defer to you on that!
> Â
> Anyways I understand that this is all somewhat subjective and I believe that I understand the "jist" of these tubes finally; it's nice to know there are choices


----------



## grokit

The JAN tubes probably just had a "heartier" warranty to be able to fetch a "heartier" price with federal defense contracts, lol.


----------



## hodgjy

That's probably very true, actually.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> The JAN tubes probably just had a "heartier" warranty to be able to fetch a "heartier" price with federal defense contracts, lol.


----------



## Zombie_X

Man I'm loving this tube a lot, great speed, detail, extension, and tube warmth!!


----------



## hodgjy

How toes it tame the treble and stridence as compared to the 5998?
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Man I'm loving this tube a lot, great speed, detail, extension, and tube warmth!!


----------



## Zombie_X

It seems the treble has more extension but is smoother by a slight bit. I really like it a lot man. Also I don't detect any stridence.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Are the 7236's compatible with WA6?


 

 To expound on what Skylab said, they are talking about a totally different type of tube application here.  In the WA6 and SE the amp uses a dual triode tube like the 6DE7 or 6SN7 for both signal and power amplification.  In an amp like the WA22 or WA5 these two tasks are performed by separate tubes, so there would be a pair of 6SN7 for signal and a pair of 7236 tubes for power.  It is a more sophisticated and expensive design.  In a nutshell unless you upgrade amps you don't have to pay any attention to these power tubes.


----------



## SpudHarris

Every day a school day. Thanks for the explanation Xcalibur 110% crystal clear.......
   
  Better start saving for the WA22 then haha.


----------



## Thaddy

Tonight I ordered some JAN Phillips 6922's and also found a great deal on a matched pair of Sylvania 7236's. I just realized I'll have over a dozen tubes by the time my WA2 arrives, but at least I'll be prepared!


----------



## hodgjy

I'll be curious to know your impressions between the Phillips 6922 and the Sylvania 6DJ8.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Tonight I ordered some JAN Phillips 6922's and also found a great deal on a matched pair of Sylvania 7236's. I just realized I'll have over a dozen tubes by the time my WA2 arrives, but at least I'll be prepared!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I just won a pair of 1943 Ken Rad 6SN7GT / VT-231 for tube collection. Waiting to compare with the pair Sylvania NOS 6SN7 GTA which is currently in transit.


----------



## Roasty

can someone give me a brief explanation as to the differences between the WA2 and the WA6 SE? they are at the same price point not taking into account mods. i looked on their site and saw a whole lot of technical information i admit i dont quite fully understand..
   
  i emailed them a few days ago but no reply yet.. maybe a bit busy over their end.
   
  unfortunately i dont have the benefit of auditioning as i dont know many head-fiers where i am at.. so i usually have to base my purchases from threads i read on this forum.
   
  i have a HD650 with Zu Mobius cable + MS2. currently using a emu0404 - headfive. have the valhalla on pre-order waiting to ship. and i listen to all types of music.
   
  debating between another tube amp vs a solid state (since i have the valhalla coming, but no one has heard it yet.. still willing to give it a go).


----------



## Roasty

nevermind, Jack just shot me an email!

 "

 In terms of functionalities, the WA6SE is a dedicated headphone amp while the WA2 is a headphone and pre-amp and 4 inputs. Since they have different design, sound signature is different. 6SE sounded more forward, neutral, greater dyanamic compared to the WA2. The WA2 produce a fuller, warmer, and smoother sound. For low impedance headphones, the WA6SE is more flexible.

 "


----------



## Thaddy

Here's part of an email correspondence I had with Jack regarding my HD-650's and how they would pair with either the WA2 or WA6SE.
   
_"Both WA2 and WA6-SE are excellent choice for the HD650's. My personal favorite for this phone is the WA2 as it speaks for the true characters of the phone. This combo sounded full, open, smooth, fluid. It adds a slight warm touch to the music but not over.

 The WA6-SE, on the other hand, sounded neutral, fast, and lots of energy."_


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Here's part of an email correspondence I had with Jack regarding my HD-650's and how they would pair with either the WA2 or WA6SE.
> 
> _"Both WA2 and WA6-SE are excellent choice for the HD650's. My personal favorite for this phone is the WA2 as it speaks for the true characters of the phone. This combo sounded full, open, smooth, fluid. It adds a slight warm touch to the music but not over.
> 
> The WA6-SE, on the other hand, sounded neutral, fast, and lots of energy."_


 


 This is true, I have this combo for almost a year, the HD650 and WA6SE (RCA 6FD7 and Sophia 274B). Lots of energy, powerful and sound very good indeed. Never have the volume knob dial close to 10:00 o'clock position.


----------



## David.M

The WA6-Se vs Woo Audio 2 is probably the toughest choice a person with an HD650(or something similar) would have to make if they are upgrading their amp to something in the $1k territory range.. If they go with the WA2, hopefully they'll get that "OTL magic" full open surrounding, smooth, crisp, etc...(as Jack mentioned) or if they go with WA6-SE, they'll get that rhythmically fast paced energy, neutrality, engaging experience + having the pleasure or view the Sophia or EML glow beautifully in the dark.. 
   
  This is probably the toughest choice a man has to make. Why you gotta be so mean Jack Wu?


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





david.m said:


> + having the pleasure or view the Sophia or EML glow beautifully in the dark..


 
   
  yeah.  it's awfully mesmerizing, no?


----------



## David.M

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> Â
> yeah.  it's awfully mesmerizing, no?


 
   
   
  DO WANT !
   
  but...... must.....stop........ right......hand..........from.......entering........woo audio dot com...... must.....
  
   
  too much pressure for me bro, I'm just gonna jump out of my window and call it a day.


----------



## Zombie_X

LOL David, please don't jump! We need ya on Team Beyerdynamic! Who will organize us?
   
  But yeah those tubes sure look cool. I think a lot of those higher end amps go for aesthetics more than anything. Not saying it sounds bad, but I noticed a lot of high end tube amps (not headphone amps) go for more tubes than anything else...
   
  I'd like to hear one of those man....


----------



## hodgjy

Not only that, but can you imagine the maintenance cost of some of those amps?  Some tube amps use 42 6AS7G tubes!  I can't imagine rolling those over the course of a few years!
   
  The simple three-tube design was one major factor in my decision to buy the Woo 3.  The 6AS7 family of tubes are cheap, available, and have many choices.  I had enough cash for the Woo 6, but I didn't want to have to deal with the temptation of the Sophia rectifier, and also I wanted an OTL to push high impedance cans.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Not saying it sounds bad, but I noticed a lot of high end tube amps (not headphone amps) go for more tubes than anything else...


----------



## Gradofan2

Did you have your cathode caps upgraded to 200v to support the 6FD7's???
   
  If so... what caps did you use???
   
  If not... have you had any problems with your cathode caps???
   
  I've got the same set up with my WA6SEM... and... I've been considering having the cathode caps upgraded to 200v caps to make sure I don't have premature failure of the cathode caps as a result of the 6FD7's straining them, with excessive voltage demands.
   
  Though... I have some 160v Blackgates, I thought I might use... but... they still might be a bit too small to be perfectly safe.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone compared the SE out of WA22 and WA6?  I'm getting WA22 next month and wonder is it worth for me to keep my maxxed WA6.


 

 Jack recommended a WA22 over a WA6SE with upgrades for singled ended output (if the source is capable of balanced). Due to my doubts, he further emphasized this point in a second email. I took his advice and purchased the WA22 for my SE headphones.
   
  Unfortunately I don't have much experience or another model to compare with.


----------



## burgunder

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Â
> Â
> With my WA6 running RCA 6FD7 fat-bottles and a Chinese 274b, the K340s sound excellent!  I don't need over 11:00 on the volume.  That is, of course, using the high impedance setting.
> Â
> ...


 
   
  Thx a lot, it sounds like it would be great with the K340, the only trouble ATM is that the price will be very high before it gets into Denmark where I live because there will be added customs of 6% and VAT of 25% plus a fee of 20$ to the postal service.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Jack recommended a WA22 over a WA6SE with upgrades for singled ended output (if the source is capable of balanced). Due to my doubts, he further emphasized this point in a second email. I took his advice and purchased the WA22 for my SE headphones.
> Â
> Unfortunately I don't have much experience or another model to compare with.


 
   
  That is what Jack told me too, I will keep my maxxed WA6 for a while after I received my WA22, I'm sure the WA22 will kick the WA6's butt big time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I haven't even had my WA6 all that long, but I find myself thinking about the WA22 from time to time already.  It would allow me to continue to use all the 6SN7 tubes I find myself buying lately too.  Maybe sometime next year, but what troubles is how rare some of the power tubes seem to be for this amp.  The highly desirable Tung Sol 7236 doesn't seem to be sold by anybody, nor did I find any eBay auctions while I was satisfying my curiosity.  With the WA5 a guy could outfit the amp with all EML rectifier and power tubes and know he is getting a great sound and fine tune the final flavor of the sound with the 6SN7.  Trouble with that is once you are done you have spent an enormous amount of money.  I think with a year of saving I could upgrade to a WA22.... the WA5 probably never.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I haven't even had my WA6 all that long, but I find myself thinking about the WA22 from time to time already.  It would allow me to continue to use all the 6SN7 tubes I find myself buying lately too.  Maybe sometime next year, but what troubles is how rare some of the power tubes seem to be for this amp.  The highly desirable Tung Sol 7236 doesn't seem to be sold by anybody, nor did I find any eBay auctions while I was satisfying my curiosity.  With the WA5 a guy could outfit the amp with all EML rectifier and power tubes and know he is getting a great sound and fine tune the final flavor of the sound with the 6SN7.  Trouble with that is once you are done you have spent an enormous amount of money.  I think with a year of saving I could upgrade to a WA22.... the WA5 probably never.


 

 Look harder
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm
   
  (they ain't cheap, though)


----------



## Xcalibur255

I saw that actually, but the selection was a bit underwhelming.


----------



## SpudHarris

I had the most amazing listening session last night with my WA6 - VOS Sylvania 6SN7 chrome tops  This happens to me periodically, I'll have one evening when everything seems just perfect but last night I think was the best listening experience I've ever had. Everything was so dynamic. so 3D, I felt every emotion in every note. Any of you guys into Fat Freddy's Drop?
   
  I know this is off topic a little but their album 'Based On A True Story' was made for my set up...... The second track by Third Ear Audio is trippy every time


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





burgunder said:


> Â
> Â
> Thx a lot, it sounds like it would be great with the K340, the only trouble ATM is that the price will be very high before it gets into Denmark where I live because there will be added customs of 6% and VAT of 25% plus a fee of 20$ to the postal service.


 

 why dont you tell Jack to undervalue the package?i asked him to value it to $100 including the sophia tube on my responsibilty and he did so.i only payed $10 for customs.if it was valued correctly,i would have payed not less than 100-150$.


----------



## hodgjy

Because that is illegal.  One of the first red flags I got about Maverick Audio (another thread for another time) is that when my amp arrived, its customs sheet said "Aluminum sheet metal samples."   Perhaps I'm too much of a prude, but dishonesty of any kind severely annoys me, especially when it's a deliberate attempt to pull something.
  
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> why dont you tell Jack to undervalue the package?i asked him to value it to $100 including the sophia tube on my responsibilty and he did so.i only payed $10 for customs.if it was valued correctly,i would have payed not less than 100-150$.


----------



## StevieDvd

I have some adapters for my old style WA6 en route so I use the 6SN7 tubes. Meanwhile have been poking around for tubes on Ebay etc without a great deal of success.
   
  I did see a pair of Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures (new boxed etc) which I may be able to get for £100 (US$160) from reviews they seem a good choice but are they still over-priced. They are from the UK so no problems with shipping or customs.
   
  Alternatively, my daughter is in China so may be able to source some a little cheaper.


----------



## Thaddy

Can someone give me a quick answer about power tube matching and Jack's amps, specifically the WA2?  Is it 100% required?


----------



## grokit

Good question, what exactly happens if the tubes aren't matched well enough when you need to use two of the same?


----------



## hodgjy

Don't quote me on this or go to the bank, but I don't think Jack "requires" matched pairs.  My Woo 3 came with driver tubes that were no where near being matched, and I couldn't hear any sonic differences.  I think I read a post here saying the same thing--matched tubes not required.  Obviously, if you have the option of getting matched pairs, go that route, but not having them won't totally ruin your listening enjoyment.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Good question, what exactly happens if the tubes aren't matched well enough when you need to use two of the same?


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Because that is illegal.  One of the first red flags I got about Maverick Audio (another thread for another time) is that when my amp arrived, its customs sheet said "Aluminum sheet metal samples."   Perhaps I'm too much of a prude, but dishonesty of any kind severely annoys me, especially when it's a deliberate attempt to pull something.
> Â


 


 .


----------



## zeroeight

Quote: 





> I had to make the same choice and went with the WA6SE since I wanted something more solid state sounding. Using the amp with a pair of ancient AKG K-240DF
> 
> Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> I have some adapters for my old style WA6 en route so I use the 6SN7 tubes. Meanwhile have been poking around for tubes on Ebay etc without a great deal of success.
> 
> I did see a pair of Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures (new boxed etc) which I may be able to get for £100 (US$160) from reviews they seem a good choice but are they still over-priced. They are from the UK so no problems with shipping or customs.
> 
> Alternatively, my daughter is in China so may be able to source some a little cheaper.


 
   
  Are you using a Sophia (or similar shaped) rectifier? I just wondered if the treasures or the full music versions will fit without touching the rectifier tube. I say this coz any of my tall 6SN7 tubes are literally 1mm away due to the adapter increasing the height. My NOS Sylvanias are short so no problem.
   
  The treasures and full music tubes are a different shape, I wanted them but didn't pull the trigger coz that's a lot of money if they don't fit or should I say touch the rectifier. Could you let us know if you get them and there's no issue.....


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Â
> Are you using a Sophia (or similar shaped) rectifier? I just wondered if the treasures or the full music versions will fit without touching the rectifier tube. I say this coz any of my tall 6SN7 tubes are literally 1mm away due to the adapter increasing the height. My NOS Sylvanias are short so no problem.
> Â
> The treasures and full music tubes are a different shape, I wanted them but didn't pull the trigger coz that's a lot of money if they don't fit or should I say touch the rectifier. Could you let us know if you get them and there's no issue.....
> ...


 

 My WA6 is one of the older models and has different spacing than yours. The adapters for the 6SN7 from Woo Audio would not fit as they are for the newer models so I had to go to the Ebay seller others here recommended.  But a good point to note.
   
  I'll certainly update as and when the apdaters and suitable tubes finally arrive.


----------



## hodgjy

Congratulations, you're the first person on my ignore list!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> sorry thats BS.whenever i order something from Japan they mark the package as a gift and write the value of the package as $20 if it costs $400 for example.if it is also illegal then maybe you should sue Jack,jh audio,japan's online retailers and me because when i ship a package to someone,i value it as $20-30.
> if you get bothered by something like this,then maybe you are tooooo perfect.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> sorry thats BS.whenever i order something from Japan they mark the package as a gift and write the value of the package as $20 if it costs $400 for example.if it is also illegal then maybe you should sue Jack,jh audio,japan's online retailers and me because when i ship a package to someone,i value it as $20-30  if you get bothered by something like this,then maybe you are tooooo perfect.


 
  I ordered a $2,000 cd transport from Japan and they marked it as a gift valued at $400.


----------



## Skylab

Speeding is illegal, but lots of people do it, because they feel the risk/reward ratio is in their favor.
   
  Falsifying customs documents is illegal as well.  Do lots of people do it?  Yes.  Does that make it OK?  IMO, no.  I don't and won't do it, either.  I do not mark stuff "gift" that isn't a gift.  I don't ask people to for it for me, either.  But that's my personal decision.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> sorry thats BS.whenever i order something from Japan they mark the package as a gift and write the value of the package as $20 if it costs $400 for example.if it is also illegal then maybe you should sue Jack,jh audio,japan's online retailers and me because when i ship a package to someone,i value it as $20-30.
> if you get bothered by something like this,then maybe you are tooooo perfect.


 
  If I bought something from you and you severely undervalued it just to save a few bucks (seriously, insurance is like $.050 per $100), I'd be quite upset.  Plus, if the package showed up damaged you'd have an even larger problem on your hands.
   
  I'm not sure if it's 100% illegal or not, but have you ever tried filing a claim for a $400 item that had a declared value of $20?  I didn't think so.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Speeding is illegal, but lots of people do it, because they feel the risk/reward ratio is in their favor.
> 
> Falsifying customs documents is illegal as well.  Do lots of people do it?  Yes.  Does that make it OK?  IMO, no.  I don't and won't do it, either.  I do not mark stuff "gift" that isn't a gift.  I don't ask people to for it for me, either.  But that's my personal decision.


 

 x2. I've never falsified documents--not to the customs agents in the Netherlands or even to UPS. Hail, I sent a $20 box of San Francisco chocolates as a thank-you gift to the people that repaired my Cambridge Audio 650C (in Canada) and declared it $20. I just hope they didn't charge them a tariff for that gift. Now that would have sucked.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Congratulations, you're the first person on my ignore list!


 


 . 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I ordered a $2,000 cd transport from Japan and they marked it as a gift valued at $400.
> Â


 


 Japananese retailers always undervalue the package and if it is lost,they will send you another one.thats from my experiance.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Speeding is illegal, but lots of people do it, because they feel the risk/reward ratio is in their favor.
> 
> Falsifying customs documents is illegal as well.  Do lots of people do it?  Yes.  Does that make it OK?  IMO, no.  I don't and won't do it, either.  I do not mark stuff "gift" that isn't a gift.  I don't ask people to for it for me, either.  But that's my personal decision.


 

 what custom documents  are you talking about?when i ship items via ups,dhl,fedex they dont recquire anything or any receipt or form.they just ask me the value of the package because when it is lost,they will pay the value back.i dont see whats illegal in that.its my choice,if it is lost then i will get the value that i wrote.


  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> If I bought something from you and you severely undervalued it just to save a few bucks (seriously, insurance is like $.050 per $100), I'd be quite upset.  Plus, if the package showed up damaged you'd have an even larger problem on your hands.
> Â
> I'm not sure if it's 100% illegal or not, but have you ever tried filing a claim for a $400 item that had a declared value of $20?  I didn't think so.
> Â


 

 yes,i always undervalue the value of the package even if it is $400 to $50.i sent my $1150 jh13 back for refit twice and in both times,i wrote its value as $20.
  i dont do it for insurance and fedex,dhl... never asked me to pay more for insurance.i just do it because i dont want the receiver to get hit with high taxes and customs.if i bought something from the US or so for $1500 as an example,i will pay not less than $300 for it as customs and taxes which is insane.
   
  maybe in the US it is not important for moest of you to undervalue the package because you dont get hit with customs like the rest of us worldwide.


----------



## Thaddy

Pro-Tip:  Before insulting someone and calling them a child, make sure you can type better than a 9 year old.
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> you are a child.i didnt insult you or say anything against you,i just disagreed with what you said.


----------



## David.M

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> you are a child.i didnt insult you or say anything against you,i just disagreed with what you said.


 

 I don't think hodgiy is able to read what you wrote since he has the 'ignore lock button' enabled on your username.  But i think he was just clowning around, or was he was actually serious? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  If you still want your message to be heard to him, I will let him know what you said the instant i get your permission  ^_^


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> Japananese retailers always undervalue the package and if it is lost,they will send you another one.thats from my experiance.


 
  MHDT labs (although not Japanese) is very good at that. I read where a reviewer got a slightly damaged Havana DAC from them and they sent another one to him before he even shipped the defective one back. That's good service. I think they claimed that $900 DAC was worth $40.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Pro-Tip:  Before insulting someone and calling them a child, make sure you can type better than a 9 year old.


 
  Thaddy--you're funny! Made my day. (Thaddy's humorous response made my day that is).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> Japananese retailers always undervalue the package and if it is lost,they will send you another one.thats from my experiance.


 
  MHDT labs (although not Japanese) is very good at that. I read where a reviewer got a slightly damaged Havana DAC from them and they sent another one to him before he even shipped the defective one back. That's good service.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Pro-Tip:  Before insulting someone and calling them a child, make sure you can type better than a 9 year old.


 
  Thaddy--you're funny! Made my day (Thaddy's humorous response made my day that is).


----------



## SpudHarris

I can understand arguments for both sides as I'm in the UK and we get stung for VAT and admin fees for almost everything. Man I ordered a Vaja case for my 240gb iMod which was in total about £89 with carriage, Fedex charged me another £25 on top in admin and VAT even though Vaja (at their own discretion) marked it as $39. Don't figure. On the flip side, there are some principled guys on here and hats off to them, if they want to spend a little extra and sleep easy I'm cool with that also. We should all just remember that Midoo was just looking out for his fellow Head-fier when he suggested it which was also a nice thing to do and no malice intended.
   
  Anyways.......... let's get back to talking about our wonderful Woo Gear and chillax.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm loving my Woo 3 and DT990 combo!
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Anyways.......... let's get back to talking about our wonderful Woo Gear and chillax.


----------



## Clayton SF

Is anyone entertaining the thought of purchasing a WooWee? It's an interesting departure from the other Woos. But knowing Jack and his team, they've probably put some careful thought into this design for an electrostatic headphone converter.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> My WA6 is one of the older models and has different spacing than yours. The adapters for the 6SN7 from Woo Audio would not fit as they are for the newer models so I had to go to the Ebay seller others here recommended.  But a good point to note.
> I'll certainly update as and when the apdaters and suitable tubes finally arrive.


 
  Ah, okay.
   
  Well I've been watching those 'Treasures' also and am getting a twitchy trigger finger   As no body has piped up about using them or the Full Music 6SN7's with the Sophia in a WA6 I thought I'd drop Jack a line and will order them ASAP if Jack answers in the positive...... Theres plenty to go round, they have 8 pairs left.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2. I've never falsified documents--not to the customs agents in the Netherlands or even to UPS. Hail, I sent a $20 box of San Francisco chocolates as a thank-you gift to the people that repaired my Cambridge Audio 650C (in Canada) and declared it $20. I just hope they didn't charge them a tariff for that gift. Now that would have sucked.


 


 They don't charge anything valued below $100 USD.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> My WA6 is one of the older models and has different spacing than yours. The adapters for the 6SN7 from Woo Audio would not fit as they are for the newer models so I had to go to the Ebay seller others here recommended.  But a good point to note.
> 
> I'll certainly update as and when the apdaters and suitable tubes finally arrive.


 

 I not sure but looking at the WA6 it looks as if the plate with the holes for tubes is removable. Couldn't you remove the plate and then put in the adapters? Okay that may not look great aesthetics-wise but it wouldn't be permanent either.


----------



## hodgjy

I was half serious and half playing around.  I'm here to discuss audio gear and have some fun, not have someone lecture me on the virtues of skirting the law or call me a child because I choose to follow the law.  I'm also sure the forum mods don't appreciate it too much, either.  We have taxes, VATs, tariffs, import fees, and custom fees for a reason.  If you don't agree with them, buy a product from within your country.  Or, better yet, vote for politicians, or become a politician, that will change the rules.  Simply bending the rules as a form of civil disobedience is not going to change anything.
  
  Quote: 





david.m said:


> I don't think hodgiy is able to read what you wrote since he has the 'ignore lock button' enabled on your username.  But i think he was just clowning around, or was he was actually serious?


----------



## hodgjy

I'm very excited about this product, even though I won't buy it until I upgrade my power amp, which won't be for quite some time.  I think Woo's decision to make the Wee might have something to do with the fact that they are authorized Stax dealers now.  More opportunities to entice customers to buy their merchandise.  I love the fact they are diversifying.
   
  Now, only if they ever get around to that DAC.......
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Is anyone entertaining the thought of purchasing a WooWee? It's an interesting departure from the other Woos. But knowing Jack and his team, they've probably put some careful thought into this design for an electrostatic headphone converter.


----------



## SpudHarris

Anyone of you guys interested in a couple of production TS 6SN7's? Not looking to make anything on them, just want to make more space in my tube box hehe - I paid £12.99 each so want to get back £20 for the pair. Thought I'd drop it here 1st before starting a FS thread.......


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm very excited about this product, even though I won't buy it until I upgrade my power amp, which won't be for quite some time.  I think Woo's decision to make the Wee might have something to do with the fact that they are authorized Stax dealers now.  More opportunities to entice customers to buy their merchandise.  I love the fact they are diversifying.
> 
> Now, only if they ever get around to that DAC.......


 
  If I'm not mistaken a few DAC's have already been made in small numbers however I'm not sure why Jack didn't move them to production.


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I not sure but looking at the WA6 it looks as if the plate with the holes for tubes is removable. Couldn't you remove the plate and then put in the adapters? Okay that may not look great aesthetics-wise but it wouldn't be permanent either.


 


 Ooh Err don't like the idea of my Woo showing it's innards off.  Will have to see what the Ebay adapters fit like first but I doubt they'd fit under the plate.

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Anyone of you guys interested in a couple of production TS 6SN7's? Not looking to make anything on them, just want to make more space in my tube box hehe - I paid £12.99 each so want to get back £20 for the pair. Thought I'd drop it here 1st before starting a FS thread.......


 

 I'll drop you a PM.


  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Ah, okay.
> 
> Well I've been watching those 'Treasures' also and am getting a twitchy trigger finger   As no body has piped up about using them or the Full Music 6SN7's with the Sophia in a WA6 I thought I'd drop Jack a line and will order them ASAP if Jack answers in the positive...... Theres plenty to go round, they have 8 pairs left.


 
  Ahh so you've spotted the seller then, same as we both bought from before. I'm guessing that they'd go for £100 otherwise why use the make an offer.
   
  They do look sweet though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

IMO, the DAC market is a really saturated one now.  It's harder to design a really great amp than it is to design a really great DAC, and give how tough the competition is I personally think Woo Audio should stick with what they already do well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The thought occurs to me that if its a tube DAC that could be interesting actually.  Not nearly as many of those around.


----------



## hodgjy

Now, you just got me officially drooling for such a product!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The thought occurs to me that if its a tube DAC that could be interesting actually.  Not nearly as many of those around.


----------



## Clayton SF

I own the MHDT Havana which is a tube DAC. it uses only 1 tube but the varieties of tubes that it can roll is vast. I really enjoy its sound. It is a non-oversampling DAC. I've seen pictures of Jack standing next to a Woo Audio DAC--prototype. I wonder how many tubes he used in his design.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *StevieDvd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Ahh so you've spotted the seller then, same as we both bought from before. I'm guessing that they'd go for £100 otherwise why use the make an offer.
> 
> They do look sweet though.


 

 Indeed.... I checked through the history and yes £100 offer was accepted so as soon as Jack gets back to me I'll hopefully pull that trigger. If I'm totally honest I can't see them fitting without swapping the Sophia though, fingers crossed.


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Indeed.... I checked through the history and yes £100 offer was accepted so as soon as Jack gets back to me I'll hopefully pull that trigger. If I'm totally honest I can't see them fitting without swapping the Sophia though, fingers crossed.


 
   
  Luckily I've only got a couple of cheap bottle rectifiers. Have a few low bids on some others but have a slimmer Sylvania 5U4GB coming soon so hopefully will have room.
   

 PS don't keep fingers crossed when swapping tubes it makes it much harder


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Pro-Tip:  Before insulting someone and calling them a child, make sure you can type better than a 9 year old.


 



 i am writing from an ipod touch,English is not my first language and i am young.is it a sin for me to spell a couple of words wrong?
  no need for this trolling,you should be wiser than this.
  y
  
  Quote: 





david.m said:


> I don't think hodgiy is able to read what you wrote since he has the 'ignore lock button' enabled on your username.  But i think he was just clowning around, or was he was actually serious?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 he was serious.i will pm him to make things ok as i dont like someone to think i made fun of him in his posts or me being sarcastic when i wasnt


----------



## midoo1990

to get back on topic,i have a question and i would appreciate anyone helping me.how do i know what drivers tube would fit in my wa6?
  i have the stock 6DF7 and i havent rolled any tube except the sophia but i would like to get some more tubes.
  on my wa6 it is written on the chasses 6DE7,so i conduct every tube that has serial 6D*7 will fit?
   
  i am looking for tubes that are very neutral with  high clarity to match with my jh13.nothing warm or bright,just neutral treble and not harsh.
  i am eager to know what effect will the drivers tube will affect the sound.my hd650(which i just sold) isnt resolving and subtle changes wont be noticed but jh13 is very revealing and i think different tubes sound will be noticable.
  thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A quick search of this thread will pull up multiple answers to this question, but a quick recap for you:
   
  Drop in compatible tubes are 6DE7, 6CY7, 6FD7, 6DR7 and 6EW7.  Tubes that are electrically compatible with a custom socket adapter are too many to list, but myself and several others are having excellent luck running the popular 6SN7 tube.  I would suggest getting comfortable with the 6DE7 tube family first though, especially since good ones cost less.  For clarity and good highs I suggest a Sylvania 6FD7 or possibly a Raytheon 6EW7.  I thought the latter was dry sounding but it might be what you are looking for.  It had good control in the treble region.


----------



## hodgjy

I was only half serious.  We've since patched things up in PMs.  After all, we're all Woo lovers here and should have no problem getting along!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> he was serious.i will pm him to make things ok as i dont like someone to think i made fun of him in his posts or me being sarcastic when i wasnt


----------



## Xcalibur255

Speaking of tube rolling, I've had the chance to try out the RCA 6SN7GT VT-231 Greyglass tube now.  I traced the date of manufacture for my tubes to Sept. 1945 for reference.  For the most part I really like it.  At first I didn't understand why the tube has such a reputation for being super lush sounding, but after enough break-in that sound emerged.  It is actually too lush for my tastes, with a midrange that is too thick sounding, but there are also many things it gets right.  Dynamics and PRaT are a lot better than my Tung-Sol 6SN7GT T-plates (I think this is this tubes' biggest weakness personally), and they convey emotion in the music well.  I'm not really sold on how they handle vocals.  The tone is right, but the texture and projection of the voice isn't.  Instruments, on the other hand, sound beautiful on this tube.  Especially piano...... these tubes love to play piano music.  The extended reverb and decay lend a wonderful ambience to the grand piano, and there is enough speed and control over bass notes to convey the power and impact behind the hammer strikes.  Definitely the nicest tubes I've ever heard for piano music. 
   
  These tubes can't touch the Tung-Sols for detail and inner resolution, but taken on their own they are not bad in this area.  The RCA and the Tung-Sol have opposite strengths and weaknesses really.  I find the detail and clarity of the Tung-Sol to be captivating.  I can literally hear the texture of the player's fingers sliding across their guitar strings on this tube.  However, there is this slowness to the performance and lack of rhythm that is basically a deal breaker.  It just stucks all the emotion out of the music and takes away that toe tapping quality that needs to be there.  It feels like everything is being played back at 97% speed.  The RCA tubes feel much more normal in this regard, with good PRaT and a good sense of dynamics, but the incredible control and inner resolution is just not there.  The Tung-Sol is also crippled by a volume mismatch between tubes.  One of the tubes has copper grid posts and the other steel, and the copper post tube is slightly louder with slightly warmer treble and you can tell when listening to music which channel it is feeding.
   
  I'm bidding on a Sylvania 6SN7GT black base with green print.  It is not a Bad Boy if you believe the story that only 3-hole plate tubes from 1952 are  the true bad boy, but they are the 2-hole plate version and I expect they will be nice tubes.  I'm hoping they land somewhere in the middle of the sound of the RCA and Tung-Sol to form a good compromise.  After a ton of reading I came to the horrified conclusion that there is probably only one tube that really does everything I want it to do without compromise:  the Tung-Sol black glass round plate.  Sadly, I am not that rich, but maybe next year I'll have the $400 to throw at that possibility.  I'm a little scared of spending all that money and still being disappointed though.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I was only half serious.  We've since patched things up in PMs.  After all, we're all Woo lovers here and should have no problem getting along!


 
  Woo Woo! That's the spirit!


----------



## midoo1990

So every tube that begins with 6 and ends with7 is compatible with wa6?

 I am just trying to figure how you guys know if a tube is compatible or not.



 Thanks for your suggestions Xcaliber,I remember you helping me out with tube recommendations when I first got my wa6.I will look for those tubes and will let you know what I will order.<
 I am glad everything is ok now Hodgiy.


----------



## hodgjy

Not necessarily.  Usually, the first number in the tube name is the voltage.  6922 = 6v triode drive tube.  6AS7 = 6v power triode.  Not always, but a good starting point.
  
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> So every tube that begins with 6 and ends with7 is compatible with wa6?
> I am just trying to figure how you guys know if a rune is compatible or not.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions Xcaliber,I remember you helping me our with tube recommendations when I first got my wa6.I will look for those tubes and will let you know what I will order.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> So every tube that begins with 6 and ends with7 is compatible with wa6?
> I am just trying to figure how you guys know if a rune is compatible or not.


 

 No, just the 5 specific ones I mentioned are directly compatible.  There are a dozen or so other tubes that technically can work, but they use different pins and will not plug into the sockets on the amp unless you have a custom socket adapter to make it work.  That's why I suggest sticking with the 5 types that are drop-in compatible for now.  I wouldn't venture into the socket adapter side of things unless you are completely comfortable doing so, as trying a tube that isn't compatible can damage your amp.
   
  The 6DE7, 6FD7 and 6EW7 are the popular tubes for the WA6.  The 6CY7 and 6DR7 kind of sit in the middle between the 6DE7 and 6EW7 for sound and are less popular.  I personally do not like the 6CY7 at all and find them to be unrefined sounding, but some people have good luck with the 6DR7 if they discover the 6EW7 is a bit too laid back for their tastes.


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks guys.good thing is that those tubes aren't expensive so I can try many of them.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> IMO, the DAC market is a really saturated one now.  It's harder to design a really great amp than it is to design a really great DAC, and give how tough the competition is I personally think Woo Audio should stick with what they already do well.


 

 Jack might want to consider dropping a digital input into a few of his amps, at least as an option like Violectric does. It would be a good way to start establishing Woo and their DAC technology in that market, and it might increase their amplifier market share as well.


----------



## grokit

Are the Chatham 5998 tubes all the same as the Tung Sols? They are listed as "Chatham Electronics JAN-CAHG-5998".
   

   
  I wonder how many other 7236/5998 tubes are out there that I haven't heard of yet


----------



## TheAudioDude

Has anyone else noticed that this thread has the most amount of views of pretty much any thread on these forums?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I came by to talk about my RCA VT-231 grey glass tubes.  I have to say that I've found my perfect combination, I think.  Pairing these with the Tung-Sol 7236s makes for a great sound.  There's still that magical tubey-ness to the sound, but with an added depth of detail and punch.  It's very engaging and powerful.  I think this is as close to solid-state as I want to be while still keeping the magic of tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now, I liked my GEC 6080s and whatnot for a while, but I think that with the D7000s I need the 7236s.  I don't have to turn the volume up nearly enough, so maybe my headphones weren't being properly powered while using the 6080s.  The output is 810mW w/ the 6080s and 2W with the 7236s... so it does make pretty good sense to keep using 7236s if I'm using cans like the D7000s.  I guess there was always something 'missing' when I wasn't using my 7236s...


----------



## grokit

Have you had a chance to try the Shuguang Treasure SN7GT tubes, how do they compare in that combo?
   
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Has anyone else noticed that this thread has the most amount of views of pretty much any thread on these forums?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Have you had a chance to try the Shuguang Treasure SN7GT tubes, how do they compare in that combo?


 

 No, but I've been dying to try some out.  They're regarded as being among the best of the 6SN7GTs, right?  The price is pretty steep, though.


----------



## Zombie_X

You know I contacted Jack last week about adding pre-amp outputs to my WA3+ and he never responded. How long does he usually take to respond?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> No, but I've been dying to try some out.  They're regarded as being among the best of the 6SN7GTs, right?  The price is pretty steep, though.


 

 I don't know, they are all I've tried besides the stock Zenith 6SN7GTR tubes. I will need a backup pair and I am trying to decide whether to get another set or try your RCAs instead.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> You know I contacted Jack last week about adding pre-amp outputs to my WA3+ and he never responded. How long does he usually take to respond?


 

 He usually catches up, I would give him until the end of the week at least. IME he is better at replying faster to e-mails that he receives in the morning his (EST) time.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I don't know, they are all I've tried besides the stock Zenith 6SN7GTR tubes. I will need a backup pair and I am trying to decide whether to get another set or try your RCAs instead.


 

 You should definitely try the RCA grey glass.  You should be able to secure a matched pair for ~$80-100.  Before using these, I was coming off of the NU 6F8Gs, and I have to say that I like the RCAs better.  They're much smoother without any loss in detail.  I already have backup pairs of my favorite tubes, so I think I'm set for a while.


----------



## TheWuss

guys...
  i'm on the brink of getting the socket adapters so i can go 6sn7 on my WA6.
   
  but, i've rifled back through the thread looking for a link to, um, glenn i think it is... the ebay seller that you all have mentioned.
  i find nothing.
   
  so...  did a quick search on the bay, and only came up with this:
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/6DE7-6SN7-Adapter-WOO-AUDIO-6-WOOAUDIO-6-NEW-/300456272049?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2
   
  can somebody steer me in the right direction?
  (i.e., good product and good seller who will ship them in a timely fashion, etc.)
   
  thanks in advance, woo fans!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Has anyone else noticed that this thread has the most amount of views of pretty much any thread on these forums?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think this is exactly right about the greyglass.  They need something very fast and detailed to balanced them out.  Unfortunately with my only running a WA6 I have no way to do that, but even still they are a nice tube.  As amazing as the detail is on the Tung Sols if I could only pick one tube to leave in the amp I would choose the RCA right now as it is more all around livable and pleasant to listen to.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> guys...
> i'm on the brink of getting the socket adapters so i can go 6sn7 on my WA6.
> 
> but, i've rifled back through the thread looking for a link to, um, glenn i think it is... the ebay seller that you all have mentioned.
> ...


 

 Send this guy a message:  http://myworld.ebay.com/2359glenn/


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Have you had a chance to try the Shuguang Treasure SN7GT tubes, how do they compare in that combo?


 
  Most people feel that the TS-RP is a better tube, though slightly more expensive and becoming hard to get now.  The true "bad boy" Sylvania t-plate tube from 1952 is also regarded as being among the best and better than the Treasures, but they are nearly impossible to find now.  I'd like to hear the Treasure myself, but I cannot use them in my amp even if I could afford them.  They physically wouldn't fit and would press against the rectifier tube.
  
  Somebody recently posted a brielf comparison of the TS-RP and the Treasure in the 6SN7 addicts thread.  He basically said they are in the same league as each other, with the Treasure having a brighter sound and the TS being more relaxed and naturally detailed.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> guys...
> i'm on the brink of getting the socket adapters so i can go 6sn7 on my WA6.
> 
> but, i've rifled back through the thread looking for a link to, um, glenn i think it is... the ebay seller that you all have mentioned.
> ...


 

 I can't speak for glenn, but I'm sure you could shoot him a message on eBay and ask if he's making any 6DE7 TO 6SN7 adapters that will be up for bid soon.  BTW, enjoy your Woo!

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think this is exactly right about the greyglass.  They need something very fast and detailed to balanced them out.  Unfortunately with my only running a WA6 I have no way to do that, but even still they are a nice tube.  As amazing as the detail is on the Tung Sols if I could only pick one tube to leave in the amp I would choose the RCA right now as it is more all around livable and pleasant to listen to.


 

 Totally, man.  This whole time I've been searching for tubes with similar qualities... but I had it all wrong.  Like they say... opposites attract.  Just like electrons to plates.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  TheAudioDude just had an epiphany.
   
  BTW, how do the TS roundplates compare to the mickey mouse ears?  I think I'm gonna try to find a pair of the mouse ears just for the hell of it... they look so damn cool.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> guys...
> i'm on the brink of getting the socket adapters so i can go 6sn7 on my WA6.
> 
> but, i've rifled back through the thread looking for a link to, um, glenn i think it is... the ebay seller that you all have mentioned.
> ...


 

 The eBay seller's name is 2359glenn and we all contacted him through the eBay contact page.  The adapters in your link look exactly like mine, right down the the labels, but that is a different seller than the one I and others have gone through.  There is some internal wiring in the adapter that must be correct, so personally I would go with somebody who has a trusted reputation.  If you use this guy check his feedback and make sure other people who've bought this exact same adapter have left good feedback before.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> No, but I've been dying to try some out.  They're regarded as being among the best of the 6SN7GTs, right?  The price is pretty steep, though.


 
  The Shuguang Treasure 6SN7GTs may be the best of the new tubes. But............
   
  I would spend my money on NOS if I were you,,


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, they are the same.  Chatham and Tung-Sol were the same company, just like Chevrolet and GMC making the same trucks.  To make things even more confusing, Tung-Sol let others rebrand their tubes, including Cetron, IBM, and Western Electric (and others that I can't think of right now).
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Are the Chatham 5998 tubes all the same as the Tung Sols? They are listed as "Chatham Electronics JAN-CAHG-5998".
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how many other 7236/5998 tubes are out there that I haven't heard of yet


----------



## hodgjy

It's taken him up to a week to get back to me.  He's not the fastest, but he always did get back to me.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> You know I contacted Jack last week about adding pre-amp outputs to my WA3+ and he never responded. How long does he usually take to respond?


----------



## Skylab

>


grokit said:


> Are the Chatham 5998 tubes all the same as the Tung Sols? They are listed as "Chatham Electronics JAN-CAHG-5998".
> 
> 
> 
> ...






 Yes, they are the same. Tung-Sol owned Chatham at that time. 

 Everyone repeat after me: "Only Tung-Sol made the 5998"


----------



## grokit

Does anybody know the cutoff specs on the WA22 impedance switch? Like would anything above say, 175 ohm be considered "high impedance"?
   
  And are these impedance settings affected by using the 2 watt power tubes over the 810 mw tubes? I am guessing that they wouldn't, but it doesn't hurt to ask, right?


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The eBay seller's name is 2359glenn and we all contacted him through the eBay contact page.  The adapters in your link look exactly like mine, right down the the labels, but that is a different seller than the one I and others have gone through.  There is some internal wiring in the adapter that must be correct, so personally I would go with somebody who has a trusted reputation.  If you use this guy check his feedback and make sure other people who've bought this exact same adapter have left good feedback before.


 

 thanks, guys.  i sent him a message thru ebay.


----------



## hodgjy

If you go by the W6, the low switch is for 8-99 ohms, and the high switch is 100-600 ohms.  It wouldn't hurt to shoot Jack an email to check.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Does anybody know the cutoff specs on the WA22 impedance switch? Like would anything above say, 175 ohm be considered "high impedance"?
> 
> And are these impedance settings affected by using the 2 watt power tubes over the 810 mw tubes? I am guessing that they wouldn't, but it doesn't hurt to ask, right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think you can go more by what sounds better than having to specifically adhere the specified range.  My K701s are 62ohm but to my ears they sound better on the high impedance setting even though the correct setting should technically be the low impedance setting.  So I leave it on high all the time.


----------



## grokit

Thanks for the replies, guys.


----------



## 2359glenn

This is my first Post
  I am Glenn who makes the adapters if you have questions ask


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This is my first Post
> I am Glenn who makes the adapters if you have questions ask


 

 Hi Glenn, welcome!
  Seamaster had you make a couple 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters for the WA22 so that the grid wires on both adapters were opposite the rectifier--so they did not touch the rectifier; mainly the large EML 5U4G. Are you still making those adapters? Apparently when the wires touch the rectifier is induces hum into the system. Thanks! -Clayton


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi Glenn, welcome!
> Seamaster had you make a couple 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters for the WA22 so that the grid wires on both adapters were opposite the rectifier--so they did not touch the rectifier; mainly the large EML 5U4G. Are you still making those adapters? Apparently when the wires touch the rectifier is induces hum into the system. Thanks! -Clayton


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Those are them! Thanks Seamaster. So cool looking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Total hum-busters I hear (or NOT!).


----------



## 2359glenn

Hello
  Yes I still make them if you buy them on Ebay just leave a note for WA22 and I will make them with the wires on opposite
  sides. And you can request wire color Green ,Red ,or Black


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This is my first Post
> I am Glenn who makes the adapters if you have questions ask


 


 Welcome to Head-Fi my friend, are you ready to empty out your wallet?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hello
> Yes I still make them if you buy them on Ebay just leave a note for WA22 and I will make them with the wires on opposite
> sides. And you can request wire color Green ,Red ,or Black


 

 Black.... Yes. Great. Those light red wires on Seamaster's adapters look very thick compared to others I've seen on eBay. They should hold up very well on any tube. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hello It's already empty I am going to send you a new rectifier  tube to try a RK60 see if you like it
  it looks cool. The RK60 is a military 5Z3/5U4 that can handle 7000 volts


----------



## Clayton SF

2359glenn. Do you make adapters for the RK60? It looks like that tube requires 2 grid wires per adapter. Very cool looking. Opens up more rectifier options for the Woos. Eek----> there went my wallet.


----------



## che15

Hello Glenn , I just sent you a message over ebay about ordering a pair of 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapters just like the ones you made for Dr Larry Ganz , How do I order them?
  Thanks


----------



## che15

Quote: 





seamaster said:


>


 

 Hello Griffin , your amp looks great , I wish My wife wuold let me get one, may be in the future. Hey I want to take the opotunity to thank you for letting use your sophia, I really enjoyed my time with it. I just got a 5AR4 Amperex BugleBoy , I love it , it does not have the same soundstage and low end that the sophia has , but I think it is a little more musical that the princess. I will get the princess in the near future.
  Thanks Friend


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hello It's already empty I am going to send you a new rectifier  tube to try a RK60 see if you like it
> it looks cool. The RK60 is a military 5Z3/5U4 that can handle 7000 volts


 

 Burn, money burn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Don't forget the meet, may well worth to check it out.


  
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> Hello Griffin , your amp looks great , I wish My wife wuold let me get one, may be in the future. Hey I want to take the opotunity to thank you for letting use your sophia, I really enjoyed my time with it. I just got a 5AR4 Amperex BugleBoy , I love it , it does not have the same soundstage and low end that the sophia has , but I think it is a little more musical that the princess. I will get the princess in the near future.
> Thanks Friend


 


 I am glad could help you out.


----------



## che15

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Burn, money burn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Have you listened to the BugleBOY? what do you think?


----------



## hodgjy

I spy two GEC 6AS7Gs.  Lucky dog!!!
  
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


>


----------



## kingtz

Quick question: How much is the PDPS upgrade for the WA6?


----------



## 2359glenn

Thy are not grid wires they are plate/anode capes the high voltage from the power transformer
  goes through those leads to the plates of the rectifier. That's how they got a 5U4 type tube
  to withstand 7000 volts that would ark over if it went to the base of the tube.
   I just made one so I could check out the RK60 as I have 6 of them here. Going to send it
  to Seamaster with tube to listen to. Something to do and don't cost any money.
    If their is Interest i will make some?


----------



## Thaddy

Well, it looks like my WA2 is out for delivery.  A perfect time to be 500 miles away from home


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





kingtz said:


> Quick question: How much is the PDPS upgrade for the WA6?


 

 it's no longer an upgrade.  it comes standard.
  if you're asking how much to upgrade an older unit, then i have no idea...


----------



## kingtz

Oh ok, thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Thy are not grid wires they are plate/anode capes the high voltage from the power transformer
> goes through those leads to the plates of the rectifier. That's how they got a 5U4 type tube
> to withstand 7000 volts that would ark over if it went to the base of the tube.


 
  Glenn, thanks for clarifying this.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Well, it looks like my WA2 is out for delivery.  A perfect time to be 500 miles away from home


 

 Wow, that was quick. How many weeks did you wait? Congrats. That amp is sweeeeet.


----------



## SpudHarris

Gents, Is there a ''normal'' shaped rectifier to rival the Sophia? I'm itching to try Shuguang Treasures but Xcalibur confirmed they won't fit whilst using the Sophia


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow, that was quick. How many weeks did you wait? Congrats. That amp is sweeeeet.


 

 I waited exactly 11 days from placing my order to being on my doorstep, not bad eh?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Gents, Is there a ''normal'' shaped rectifier to rival the Sophia? I'm itching to try Shuguang Treasures but Xcalibur confirmed they won't fit whilst using the Sophia


 

 For the WA6?  Try using the Sylvania 5931.  Really nice military version of 5U4.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I waited exactly 11 days from placing my order to being on my doorstep, not bad eh?


 

 NO. Not bad at all. I waited 5 weeks in February of this year. He must have had his production streamlined by now. Great.


----------



## Thaddy

Well Jack said that he was able to get my WA2 out the door so fast because a lot of the other amps have back ordered parts.  I'm looking forwards to spending time this weekend listening, it seems that the WA2 doesn't get the press some of his other amps do, even though it's (from what I've read) almost a perfect match with high-impedance phones with the right source.  Plus, you can do a ton of tube rolling...


----------



## dmac03

Makes sense. I'm jealous. I ordered my wa22 a couple weeks ago and he stated there would be a 3-4 lead time before delivery.


----------



## che15

kingtz said:


> Quick question: How much is the PDPS upgrade for the WA6?






 110$ if you have an older WA6 , if are looking to buy a new one , it comes in all the new WA6.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For the WA6?  Try using the Sylvania 5931.  Really nice military version of 5U4.


 
   
  Thanks Skylab, I have tracked down a pair so if I go for them I'll sell one off to help ease the pain.... So how will this tube compare to the Sophia in terms of SQ and soundstage do you think? Anyone with a view please chime in.....


----------



## Skylab

I'm not a good person to answer, since I wasn't really that enamored of the Sophia.  I think it a little bright.  I actually prefer the 5931.  Typically not an expensive tube, although can be somewhat tough to find.  Let me know if you don't find one for $30 or less.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm not a good person to answer, since I wasn't really that enamored of the Sophia.  I think it a little bright.  I actually prefer the 5931.  Typically not an expensive tube, although can be somewhat tough to find.  Let me know if you don't find one for $30 or less.


 

 Can you recommend one that has the bigger soundstage of the Sophia but is less bright?  The Amperex GZ34 bugle boy and Philips metal base GZ34 both had great mids but a small soundstage.  The Sovtek 5U4G had a decent soundstage but the treble sounded a little artificial.


----------



## grokit

I just won a pair of RCA Black Plate 6SN7GTB tubes that I lowballed on a lark. I don't even remember placing the bid TBH. From what I can see these are competent back ups for my Treasures but nothing special like a TS VT231. But it's a reliable tube, as good as anything in that tube type without spending big bucks is that about right?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have a pair.  They are okay sounding but nothing special.  I think they are really lacking in inner resolution, and are too strong in the upper mids.  Think "warm" only moved up the range a bit.  They don't sound thin, there is just too much energy that part of the spectrum.


----------



## SpudHarris

I just got a mail back from Jack reference using the Treasures with the Sophia in place, he says it's ok and that the Treasures are a superior tube. I'm pushing the button in a while......
   
  Xcalibur - Have you physically tried these or any bottle shaped tubes with the Sophia in place?? I still have niggling doubt...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I just got a mail back from Jack reference using the Treasures with the Sophia in place, he says it's ok and that the Treasures are a superior tube. I'm pushing the button in a while......
> 
> Xcalibur - Have you physically tried these or any bottle shaped tubes with the Sophia in place?? I still have niggling doubt...


 

 You sure he knows you are running a WA6?  Because the tube socket spacing on the WA22 and WA5, which were designed to use these tubes, is wider than it is on the WA6 and WA6SE. 
   
  In answer to your question, no I never asserted I actually own the Treasures.  I just mentioned they were unlikely to fit in my opinion earlier.  What I forgot to mention, I think, is that opinion is based on the hole spacing patterns on the amp and a bit of math and not actual experience so I apologize for the confusion.  If I'm wrong then that is great, but I just can't see the tubes clearing each other. 
   
  I really believe your money would be better spent trying some of the nicer NOS options before spending over $300 on the Treasures anyway, but again that is only my opinion.  There are some really great NOS tubes out there you can get in the $50-100 range.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks Xcalibur 
   
  I have asked Jack to clarify but he did say tubes touching was not an issue. I think I can get a set of Treasures for a good price here in the UK (£100) but when you mentioned good NOS I remembered I'm trying to grab some (1953) Sylvania 6SN7WGT's  already which will most probably go high in price so may have to hold off on the Treasures for a while, I'd like clarification in stone from Jack before spending another £100 anyway.
   
  Just bought a NOS Sylvania 5931 just in case the Treasures won't fit with the Sophia......
   
  Man, this is becoming a really expensive hobby........


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Man, this is becoming a really expensive hobby........


 


 TBH, this is a hobby of burning money from the very first day, especially we go for some tubes rolling game.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

The green label Sylvania NOS 6SN7 GTA came in today... but the adapter from Glen have not reach me. Hope I will have the parcel delivered tomorrow.


----------



## midoo1990

well the damage continues in this page
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i also bought a NOS sylvania 5931 based on Skylab's impression/recommendation.
  also bought 6DE7 based on xcalibur recommendation.
   
  this is a bloody expensive hobby and i already have 3 other packages coming this week and i am waiting for audeze email to pay for the lcd2.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i am thinking of cancelling my order for the lcd2 and save my money till the headphone market settle a bit because so many great headphones are announced in short time intervals. also i dont think anything can be better or more neutral than jh13.darn it....


----------



## squid1980

Hi Xcalibur
   
  Thank you for you advise about 6sn7 adaptor again. Here is my wa6 now
   



[/urs]
   
  in picture
   
  Out put tubes are Sylvania NOS 6SN7W matched pairs
 Rectifire tube is Mullard GZ32 Black Base

  
 and Tube that i have now
 out put GE 6SN7 WGTA Canada Brown Base, RCA 6FD7, Sylvania 6EW7, GE 6FD7, Raythron 6DE7
 Rectifier Mullard GZ34 Metal Base, WingC 5UG4, Sovtek 5UG4, Philips 5R4GYA


----------



## che15

Quote: 





squid1980 said:


> Hi Xcalibur
> 
> Thank you for you advise about 6sn7 adaptor again. Here is my wa6 now
> 
> ...


 


 Hello Xcalibur, How do you like that mullard rectifier, is it really expensive. I am liking my bugleboy , the only problem is the soundstage being small, everything else is perfect for me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Can you recommend one that has the bigger soundstage of the Sophia but is less bright?  The Amperex GZ34 bugle boy and Philips metal base GZ34 both had great mids but a small soundstage.  The Sovtek 5U4G had a decent soundstage but the treble sounded a little artificial.


 

 I like the 5U4G and it's family better for soundstaging than the 5AR4/GZ34.  The Tung-Sol black plate 5U4G, Hytron short-bottle 5U4G, and the Sylvania 5931 all have excellent soundstaging, IMO, although perhaps not quite as wide as the Sophia.  But I could not get past the Sophia's brightness and etch, even though the soundstage is indeed impressive I agree.


----------



## SpudHarris

Skylab - Thanks for your help.
   
  I've grabbed a NOS Sylvania 5931 from the TubeStore for $47.95 delivered to the UK so I'm happy  and I've made an offer on the Shuguang CV181-Z 6SN7 Treasures and am waiting to hear if I've got them or not. Jack says they will fit the WA6 even with the Sophia in place and the tubes touching won't be an issue. I'll have the 5931 soon so if the tubes touching creates noise or bugs me I'll just use that, who knows I might prefer it over the Sophia anyways...
   
  Edit - Woo Woo! Just bought a matched pair of Treasures for £100 delivered.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

While people are stocking and rolling their tubes... I moved on upgrading the source... Foregoing the SB Classic 3 and awaiting the arrival of SB Touch now.


----------



## David.M

@ Squid1980.
   
  woa, nice drive tubes. For a sec there, I thought, I thought it was a miniature version of The Woo Audio 2 ^_^   Who'd a known that WA6 carried driver tubes that are nearly as big as the rectifier !
   
  @Skylab: you mentioned that the lovely Sophia gal had quite a bit of brightness. So that means the DT990/600 and the Sophia aren't meant to be ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  This might make me want to consider the Woo Audio 2 instead, but i have also heard the EML 274b delivers the same sonics as Sophia, without the extra harshness.


----------



## Thaddy

David.M, Jack mentioned that he felt the WA6SE was a bit more neutral and faster than the WA2, which tends to be more open and smooth.  Of course, this was  general comparison between the sound signature of the two amps using the HD650's.  I would send him an email if you're having a hard time deciding.  In the end, I went with the WA2.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





david.m said:


> @Skylab: you mentioned that the lovely Sophia gal had quite a bit of brightness. So that means the DT990/600 and the Sophia aren't meant to be ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm using DT880/600 with my Sophia in a WA6 and they are perfect together. I don't find the Sophia harsh but it is very revealing and I love details  As always it's subjective but I personally think they match very well...


----------



## MrFisherman

I am new to the Woo.  I just ordered the WA6 with the tube upgrade.  I'm so excited.


----------



## hodgjy

Welcome to the Woo Family!  Share some pictures of your rig and post your impressions when it's all set up.
  
  Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> I am new to the Woo.  I just ordered the WA6 with the tube upgrade.  I'm so excited.


----------



## MrFisherman

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Welcome to the Woo Family!  Share some pictures of your rig and post your impressions when it's all set up.


 

 Thanks.  And I definitely will share.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





david.m said:


> @ Squid1980.
> 
> woa, nice drive tubes. For a sec there, I thought, I thought it was a miniature version of The Woo Audio 2 ^_^   Who'd a known that WA6 carried driver tubes that are nearly as big as the rectifier !
> 
> ...


 

 I would not choose an amp based on the sound of one rectifier tube   But the WA2 is a better choice for 600 ohm Beyers than the WA6, IMO.


----------



## squid1980

Quote: 





david.m said:


> @ Squid1980.
> 
> woa, nice drive tubes. For a sec there, I thought, I thought it was a miniature version of The Woo Audio 2 ^_^   Who'd a known that WA6 carried driver tubes that are nearly as big as the rectifier !


 

  
  First that i saw mullard gz32 in my hand. I said why it so small. I compare it with stock tube both of them are same shape (ST) but  gz32 smaller. When put it on woo look so cute.


----------



## fatcat28037

I just replaced my W2 with a W22. How much difference could I expect replacing the stock Rectifier with a Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B? I'm curious as to whether it really is a $150 upgrade.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> I just replaced my W2 with a W22. How much difference could I expect replacing the stock Rectifier with a Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B? I'm curious as to whether it really is a $150 upgrade.


 

 You exchanged your WA2 for a WA22? You mean you sent it back to Jack? I guess they really do give good customer service.
   
  I couldn't tell you about the Sophia but there are a lot of NOS 5U4 tubes out there for about $20-$50 that are exceptional. The Tung-Sols come to mind. Also the RCA black plates. Very nice.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





squid1980 said:


> Hi Xcalibur
> 
> Thank you for you advise about 6sn7 adaptor again.


 

 It certainly opens up a whole new world for tube possibilities.  Hope you're enjoying it.


----------



## squid1980

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It certainly opens up a whole new world for tube possibilities.  Hope you're enjoying it.


 

 I'm very happy with it. with 6snyw sylwania it has a lot of detail especially  vocal. I think i will find a pair for spare.


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You exchanged your WA2 for a WA22? You mean you sent it back to Jack? I guess they really do give good customer service.


 


 No, I didn't exchange it, I replaced it. Sold the 2 on the FS forum in 6 hours. Thanks for the tube info.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> I just replaced my W2 with a W22. How much difference could I expect replacing the stock Rectifier with a Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B? I'm curious as to whether it really is a $150 upgrade.


 
   
  The person that sold me my WA22 included a Sophia 274B but he said that it, "with most headphones it now develops a buzz after about a half an hour, so it's more for novelty or experimentation". I haven't tried it yet but will probably give it a go soon. Don't know if it is a bad tube or bad with this amp (doubtful as it is a stated option) or bad in combination with the other tubes used or what.


----------



## Seamaster

Try to change out the Sophia first. I had hum with Sophia when pair with 6F8Gs. This may happen with other tubes too. What driver tube do you use?
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> The person that sold me my WA22 included a Sophia 274B but he said that it, "with most headphones it now develops a buzz after about a half an hour, so it's more for novelty or experimentation". I haven't tried it yet but will probably give it a go soon. Don't know if it is a bad tube or bad with this amp (doubtful as it is a stated option) or bad in combination with the other tubes used or what.


----------



## grokit

Well like I said I haven't had a chance to try the Sophia yet myself. I am using the Treasure drivers and rectifier with Sylvania 7236 power tubes at the moment with no problems. I will be re-arranging my gear soon to give myself more room for tube rolling to try out some more combos, as I really want to try the TS 7236 tubes that just arrived.


----------



## dmac03

I haven't heard a good comaprison of the TS vs the sylvania 7236. Please comment (or anyone else that knows the difference) between the two once you plug in you tung-sol's.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Anyone have a SB Touch connected to the WA6SE? Keen to know how it sounds..


----------



## Zombie_X

In my experience the Tung-Sol 7236 and Sylvania 7236 sound similar, yet different. The most obvious difference is that the Tung-Sol is not cold and sterile like the Sylvania. It's lush sounding with extended, yet tubey highs. The Sylvania highs are very extended, but sound a little, how should I say it, strident. They are edgy, but not in a bad way. The TS's bass is about the same as the Sylvania, but slightly has the rounded tube bass sound.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Here is my MAXXED WA6SE with Glenn's adapters plus Green Label Sylvania NOS 6SN7 GTA.
   


   
  Enjoying the extra bits and it is making my HD650 sings even louder and clearer except the blurry pictures.
   
  I am expecting the pair of Ken-Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231 and Squeezebox Touch to be delivered next week.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

This is a clearer picture that I just snapped.
   

   
  The gain is double of 6EW7 and soundstage is much bigger. I can't wait to roll the Ken-Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231. This conversion bring a new dimension to WA6SE with little cost but huge improvement.
   
  The adapter sold by Jack is kinda smaller and I doubt it has any resistor and bypass capacitor in the adapter. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## TheWuss

awesome pics, OutdoorXplorer! 
  i just paid ken to start making my adapters.  can't wait to join the club!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  quick question to you experts:
  ken asks whether the amp is a wa6se or wa6.
  yet, the adapters are still 6de7 to 6sn7.
   
  so, what's the fundamental difference between adapters for wa6 and wa6se???
   
  TIA,
  the wuss


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> awesome pics, OutdoorXplorer!
> i just paid ken to start making my adapters.  can't wait to join the club!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would think the resistor's and bypass capacitor's value may be different.


----------



## Thaddy

The WA6SE has a separate case to house the power supply.  Look at www.wooaudio.com.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> The WA6SE has a separate case to house the power supply.  Look at www.wooaudio.com.


 

*TheWuss was referring to the 6SN7 to 6DE7 adapter...*


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


outdoorxplorer said:


> I would think the resistor's and bypass capacitor's value may be different.


 
  okay.  thanks.


----------



## hotubei

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> In my experience the Tung-Sol 7236 and Sylvania 7236 sound similar, yet different. The most obvious difference is that the Tung-Sol is not cold and sterile like the Sylvania. It's lush sounding with extended, yet tubey highs. The Sylvania highs are very extended, but sound a little, how should I say it, strident. They are edgy, but not in a bad way. The TS's bass is about the same as the Sylvania, but slightly has the rounded tube bass sound.


 

 I can second that. Just replaced sylvania with TS yesterday on my WA22. Listened on LCD-2. I can not hear THAT many differences as Zombie_X, my impressions were mostly around lower mids - they went more on the tubey-lush side (in the good way - _bit_ more rounded and textured), bass staying punchy (Gee, do I love LCD-2 for their bass and vocal textures).


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

With this conversion, I should be able to keep my fingers off a WA22 for a while unless the BALANCE ITCH comes back again.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> With this conversion, I should be able to keep my fingers off a WA22 for a while unless the BALANCE ITCH comes back again.


 

 resistance is futile


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hotubei said:


> I can second that. Just replaced sylvania with TS yesterday on my WA22. Listened on LCD-2. I can not hear THAT many differences as Zombie_X, my impressions were mostly around lower mids - they went more on the tubey-lush side (in the good way - _bit_ more rounded and textured), bass staying punchy (Gee, do I love LCD-2 for their bass and vocal textures).


 
   
  Nice to heard, I'm planning to get a LCD-2 after WA22 arrives.  What tubes your are using?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Awaiting this pair of tubes to arrive at my doorstep...


----------



## jc9394

^^^ Nice, where you guys getting these sweet tubes?  fleabay?


----------



## hotubei

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice to heard, I'm planning to get a LCD-2 after WA22 arrives.  What tubes your are using?


 
  EML 5U4G, now TS 7236 for power and switching between CV181 and VT99 for drivers. VT99 were meant to accent lows and smooth HD800. Now that LCD-2 do NOT need that (not that they are too dark, but lows are fine without any accents), I'm kind of in the switching mood. CV181 give more resolution and air (or seems so from more mids and highs), but somehow are not that good to my ears - somewhat hollow, if you know what I mean.


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> awesome pics, OutdoorXplorer!
> i just paid ken to start making my adapters.  can't wait to join the club!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The older wa6 (I have one of those) has a smaller aperture where the tubes plug in. So the adapter that Jack does will not fit. There's an Ebay seller (now a forum member) a few pages back in this thread who supplies adapters which will fit (ine are on the way).


----------



## TheWuss

well...   if the size of the base is the only difference, then i'll be fine either way.
  my WA6 is newer, and has the larger dia. holes for fat bottle tubes...
   
  (still curious if there are any electircal differences as OutdoorXplorer has mentioned...)


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Here is my MAXXED WA6SE with Glenn's adapters plus Green Label Sylvania NOS 6SN7 GTA.


 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *TheWuss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> i just paid ken to start making my adapters.  can't wait to join the club!


 

 Who's Ken? What is the difference between his adapters and Glenn's?
  
  Quote: 





			
				StevieDvd said:
			
		

> The older wa6 (I have one of those) has a smaller aperture where the tubes plug in. So the adapter that Jack does will not fit. There's an Ebay seller (now a forum member) a few pages back in this thread who supplies adapters which will fit (ine are on the way).


 

 That's Glenn, right? Is Ken a different seller?
  
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> ^^^ Nice, where you guys getting these sweet tubes?  fleabay?


 

 That's where I got this pair, for a very good price too:


----------



## is2us

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> No, I didn't exchange it, I replaced it. Sold the 2 on the FS forum in 6 hours. Thanks for the tube info.


 

 Well, I saw it only after 6 hours. Guess I'll be joining this thread.
   
  Just bought Tungsol 5998


----------



## Cyberevo

Hello everyone, I am new here and got my WA6SE Maxed about 2 months.
   
  After reading first 200 pages of this thread, I got some general idea and started to dig out those mentioned tubes. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for me to find 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 here in Taiwan...
   
  Should I contact Glenn and go directly to 6SN7? please kindly advise.
  Any comment will be highly appreciated, thank you!
   
   
  Another irrelevant and stupid question, where can i edit my signature? nothing in My Profile shows here...


----------



## 2359glenn

The WA6-SE adapters need a resistor and bypass capacitor in the adapter
  and the Wa6 does not so the adapters are different.
  Glenn


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


grokit said:


> That's Glenn, right? Is Ken a different seller?


 
  yes.  glenn.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  it was early this morning when i typed that.
  though that's a pretty poor excuse...


----------



## Clayton SF

Ken also sounds like Glenn really late in the evening. So it's an easy slip of course!


----------



## Thaddy

I'm 5 minutes into listening to my new WA2, and so far it's   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I'm using the stock tubes for now but it's still pretty darn good, although there is a slight hum while the music is paused.  I'm looking forward to letting it break in over the weekend with the stock tubes.  I'm planning on picking up some new IC's and power cables, so I want to wait until everything is stable before I start rolling tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here's a crappy picture taken with my Blackberry.  I love how it matches my PS Audio DL III DAC and UPC-200 power conditioner.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glenn beat me to it, but just to reiterate the regular WA6 adapter doesn't have any resistor or capacitor in it at all.  The extra parts in the SE version resolve a compatibility issue specific to that amp which would otherwise shorten the life of the 6SN7 tube.


----------



## hodgjy

Awesome!!!
   
  I've found that RCA power tubes tend to be very noisy in the Woo amps (at least in my amp), so it's no surprise that yours has a little hum.  I'd say that if the hum doesn't go away in 30 hours of run time, you'll have to roll the tubes.  Also, I don't buy into the whole power cord conspiracy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 so I recommend the $2.00 14 gauge Monoprice cable.  Works great for me.  
   
  One thing to consider, is some power conditioners can do weird things to the the power entering your amp.  Try your amp straight out of the wall to see if the hum goes away.  If not, then it's definitely just the tubes.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I'm 5 minutes into listening to my new WA2, and so far it's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Thaddy

Oh I'm not planning on spending a ton on power cables, I just want something solid.  A $49 cord from Signal Cable is about as baller as I'll get.  Frank makes excellent cables that are very well built for fair prices.  That's good to hear about the RCA tubes too.  The hum does get slightly louder as I increase the volume, so I'm guessing it's the tubes.  No big deal, it's barely audible anyways.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Glenn is the MAN! WA6/SE owners have more tube rolling options now.


----------



## Clayton SF

Has anyone ever heard a WA4? I wish I had order one before it disappeared off of Jack's website. It has a very strong look. I wonder if it sounded as bold.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Has anyone ever heard a WA4? I wish I had order one before it disappeared off of Jack's website. It has a very strong look. I wonder if it sounded as bold.


 


 Are you drinking anything illegal?


----------



## David.M

Very sweet WA2 you got there Thaddy. The camera picture makes it seem as if those small driver tubes in the middle were Mullards with Sovtek tops 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I was probably going to jump on the WA2 that fatcat28037 had on the F/S section a couple days ago since I rarely get to see them go up for sale through my very own eyes, since someone usually snags them within a couple hours -_-  But I really wanted it in the color black, so... DAMNIT.. another oppurtunity gone : ( 
   
  post some impressions with how well they do with the HD650's !!


----------



## Thaddy

Yeah, these stock 6080's aren't nearly as big as the Tung Sol 5998's I have sitting here!  I'll try to get some nicer pictures up this weekend.  I'm without a camera until Saturday.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Are you drinking anything illegal?


 

 No, not yet. I take it that you wouldn't recommend the WA4. I figured that if Jack built it it was good... but then again, it's nowhere to be found.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No, not yet. I take it that you wouldn't recommend the WA4. I figured that if Jack built it it was good... but then again, it's nowhere to be found.


 

 Now I am hoping for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WA55LE


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Now I am hoping for
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's too bad that we all couldn't live in an amp co-op and just exchange everything every once in a while, or every so often, or every now and then... now wouldn't that be nice. Yes, I do think that the WA5LE has proven itself beyond the shadow of a doubt many times over.


----------



## sillysally

You may want to check out a "Iron Lung Jellyfish" power cord if you don't want to spend over $50.00
   
  What I have found to be true is that if you are interested in power cord upgrades, the most bang out of a power cord upgrade will come from your source player not your amp. Power cords can change the speed and tone of your audio but like tube rolling you have to get the right power cord for your source player. That's not to say that a nice power cord like the Jellyfish to be used with your amp can not help because it very well may help.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The WA6-SE adapters need a resistor and bypass capacitor in the adapter
> and the Wa6 does not so the adapters are different.
> Glenn


 

 Hello, Glenn.
   
  I couldn't reply your private message, so I sent a message to your ebay contact. Thanks!


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm in heaven again. Okay. Glenn's adapters have given me a chance to experience these VT-99 Raytheons. I need more burn-in time to realize its full potential. They're not round plates but they're JAN 1944. A bit of war history here folks. Absolutely time-machine inducing nostalgia. And the RK-60 to 5U4 adapter is wicked looking as well as the tube it's capping--double capping. WICKED! Yes! Thanks Glenn. You're The Genius Maximus.




  Seamaster, I would really like hear what you think of the RK-60.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I got to thinking the other day what it would sound like (and what it would cost) to have Jack do a custom WA22 that uses Emission Labs 20A and 20B tubes for signal and output in place of the 6SN7 and 6080.  These tubes look awesome and somebody must be using them in a design somewhere.


----------



## dmac03

What exactly is the point of the "capping" for those tubes/adapters? Is it some sort of tube damper or is it required for the adapter? Please fill me in.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> I got to thinking the other day what it would sound like (and what it would cost) to have Jack do a custom WA22 that uses Emission Labs 20A and 20B tubes for signal and output in place of the 6SN7 and 6080.  These tubes look awesome and somebody must be using them in a design somewhere.


 

 yes.  if looks could kill, then color me slain.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Awesome visuals.
   
  Glenn is a popular person now. He is providing a wider tube rolling experience for head-fiers


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm in heaven again. Okay. Glenn's adapters have given me a chance to experience these VT-99 Raytheons. I need more burn-in time to realize its full potential. They're not round plates but they're JAN 1944. A bit of war history here folks. Absolutely time-machine inducing nostalgia. And the RK-60 to 5U4 adapter is wicked looking as well as the tube it's capping--double capping. WICKED! Yes! Thanks Glenn. You're The Genius Maximus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 That is pretty sick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I will have my RK-60 in the mail soon.


----------



## 2359glenn

The caps ars required for the RK60 tube. The RK60 is a 5U4 type tube with the plates/anodes wired to the top of the tube
  insted of the base so it can withstand higher voltage that would ark over in the base. I found that the RK60 has closer
  matching of the two halves than a regular 5U4 and as far as I know their was no commercial use for the RK60 it was only
  used in military transmitters. This makes them cheap a little over $10.00 their is nothing that uses them anymore.


----------



## grokit

Suddenly I'm interested in the RK60/VT-99 and the appropriate adapters for my WA22, I'm not sure why...


----------



## dannie01

The tubes combo looks awesome Clayton, would you share more your impression how does it sound compare with 5U4G, thanks. Found a Raytheon on Ebay , not that cheap as Glenn mentioned but looks good.
   

       Quote:


2359glenn said:


> The caps ars required for the RK60 tube. The RK60 is a 5U4 type tube with the plates/anodes wired to the top of the tube
> insted of the base so it can withstand higher voltage that would ark over in the base. I found that the RK60 has closer
> matching of the two halves than a regular 5U4 and as far as I know their was no commercial use for the RK60 it was only
> used in military transmitters. This makes them cheap a little over $10.00 their is nothing that uses them anymore.


 
   
  And Glenn, can I use these RK60 in my WA5LE (it will be arrived on next Monday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with your adapters? Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The tubes combo looks awesome Clayton, would you share more your impression how does it sound compare with 5U4G, thanks. Found a Raytheon on Ebay , not cheap but looks good.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 
  Hey dannie01--It is also known as 1641 / RK60. You can get them at 2 different places: TubeDepot AND AES. For $9.95 and $10.50 respectively.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We cannot be stopped!!!
   
  Besides the NOS 1641/RK60, the matching pair of 6F8G/VT99 tubes are also NOS. They've only been in my amp for about 6 hours so they're still more burn-in time to be had. But curiosity got the best of me anyway so I put on my DT990/600 ohm headphones and listened. The first hour I was a little bit disappointed because the sound was very etched and the bass a a bit flabby. So I went about my business and 4 hours later what an improvement. Everything tightened up and the highs extended further with a bit of sparkle. There's still a slight dryness in the mid-uppers to highs. This morning after the WA22 was on for about 2 hours I listened again. The bass is strong but its presence is slightly recessed. I think if the highs calm down a bit it will be perfect. Now I don't know which is the major player here--the 6F8G/VT99 or the 1641/RK60. I really don't like to roll tubes that often so I won't be isolating the different tubes any time soon.


----------



## dannie01

Thank you Clayton, seem a good combo with VT-99. I have a pair of TS but it will go with the WA22 to it's new home soon so I don't think there is any chance for me to try it out with the RK60. Ordered a pair of EML 5U4G for my new babe, let see how they'll sound with the Sophia 300B and TS 6SN7GT Black Glass Round Plate. Will wait for Glenn's confirm and if it work fine with WA5LE, thinking that I would order a pair of RK60 and adapters to have it a try sometimes later.


----------



## 2359glenn

The RK60 can be used in any application that uses a 5U4. All the parameters are the same
  the filament is 5 volts at 3 amps and plate current is 250ma same as a 5U4 the only difference
  it can withstand a much higher plate voltage. This is due to the plate leads going to the top of the tube
  instead of to the base. the plate structure is the same as a 5U4.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> Quote:
> 
> yes.  if looks could kill, then color me slain.


 


 If you could convince him it would sound great but be expensive. The sound of direct heated triodes just blows away all
  indirect heated tubes. My system has all direct heated tubes  preamp 26 power amp 210 direct coupled to a 300B
  no capacitors in the signal path. The only thing that has in direct heated tubes for now is my head amp. But I just
  started building a 2A3 OTL head amp.
  The problem with Direst heated tubes especially if they are used in a preamp or head amp is hum if the filament is not run on
  dc so each tube needs its own dc power supply for the filament this makes the amp large and very expensive.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The RK60 can be used in any application that uses a 5U4. All the parameters are the same
> the filament is 5 volts at 3 amps and plate current is 250ma same as a 5U4 the only difference
> it can withstand a much higher plate voltage. This is due to the plate leads going to the top of the tube
> instead of to the base. the plate structure is the same as a 5U4.


 

 Does this mean WA6SE can use RK60 on the rectifier section?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes  the RK60 can easily run in a WA6-SE this amp doesn't draw nearly as much current as the 6AS7s in the WA22


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The RK60 can be used in any application that uses a 5U4. All the parameters are the same
> the filament is 5 volts at 3 amps and plate current is 250ma same as a 5U4 the only difference
> it can withstand a much higher plate voltage. This is due to the plate leads going to the top of the tube
> instead of to the base. the plate structure is the same as a 5U4.


 

 Thanks Glenn, YGPM.


----------



## Silent One

OutdoorXplorer~
   
  Great path you're on toward some audio goodness. Your feedback has me quite excited. As a new Woo 6 SE owner, I'm trying to roll the driver tubes carefully and cautiously since funds are a bit tight at this time. How much did the adapters run you? And the green labe Sylvanias? Lastly, what is the low end like with 6SN7s vs 6EW7s?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





silent one said:


> OutdoorXplorer~
> 
> Great path you're on toward some audio goodness. Your feedback has me quite excited. As a new Woo 6 SE owner, I'm trying to roll the driver tubes carefully and cautiously since funds are a bit tight at this time. How much did the adapters run you? And the green labe Sylvanias? Lastly, what is the low end like with 6SN7s vs 6EW7s?


 

 As for the adapter, ask Glenn the cost plus shipping as mine may be not be appropriate since it includes shipping to Malaysia. The green label tubes are pretty reasonable and they are all over eBay. I am listening to greater low range of frequencies in comparison with 6EW7 tubes. Hope this helps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If you could convince him it would sound great but be expensive. The sound of direct heated triodes just blows away all
> indirect heated tubes. My system has all direct heated tubes  preamp 26 power amp 210 direct coupled to a 300B
> no capacitors in the signal path. The only thing that has in direct heated tubes for now is my head amp. But I just
> started building a 2A3 OTL head amp.
> ...


 

 This was an extremely informative post.  Thank you Glenn.  It seems like it would be an impractical modification for an existing amp design from what I understood.  Would love to see Jack design a new amp (Woo 7 anybody?) around new tubes instead of NOS for those who are frustrated over the "hunt" so to speak.  Jack seems to really like Shuguang over EML for reasons I don't really understand though.


----------



## SpudHarris

Do any of you guys use a lube of anysort on the adapers or any of your pins?
   
  The adapters I got from Jack are sooooo tight I'm worried about damaging tubes when inserting or taking tubes out.
   
  Any advice is appreciated.......


----------



## hodgjy

I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone, but often the most obvious answer to why a seller favors a particular product over another is this:
   
  Dealer markup.
   
  Jack's a great guy, so don't get me wrong, but he's in this to make money.  If you had any doubt, look at his dealer markup of Sylvania 7236 tubes.  He universally recommends those.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Jack seems to really like Shuguang over EML for reasons I don't really understand though.


----------



## rosgr63

Silclear might be a product worth considering.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Do any of you guys use a lube of anysort on the adapers or any of your pins?
> 
> The adapters I got from Jack are sooooo tight I'm worried about damaging tubes when inserting or taking tubes out.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated.......


 

 I applied SilClear on the pins in my tube collections.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks guys, SilClear didn't yeald results on e-bay so I tried a search on ''Silcon Lube''. The results are a bit scary............ Wonder if ''Fist Extreme'' will work??


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Thanks guys, SilClear didn't yeald results on e-bay so I tried a search on ''Silcon Lube''. The results are a bit scary............ Wonder if ''Fist Extreme'' will work??


 

 I hope this helps...http://cgi.ebay.com/Tube-Treatment-12AX7-6SN7-EL34-6550-6922-6DJ8-12AU7-/350383411353?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2#ht_3898wt_1139


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I wonder have anyone replace their Woo Audio blue led to amber...? I wish to do so but not sure what sort of led to purchase..


----------



## dmac03

Has anyone used something like a mullard gz37 for a rectifier rather than the princess or eml? What would be the advantages/drawbacks of doing so?


----------



## jc9394

Never tried GZ37 but I love the GZ34 over the princess with rocks...
   
   
  I got a metal based Mullard GZ34 recently cheap on fleabay.  I notice the pins are a little loose, like I can turn it back and forth a little.  Is it safe to use?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Has anyone used something like a mullard gz37 for a rectifier rather than the princess or eml? What would be the advantages/drawbacks of doing so?


 


 The GZ37 can often be used in place of the GZ34, but not always.  I actually have a couple nice GZ37's - but I'm not sure of the Woo amps can use them.  Anyone know?
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Never tried GZ37 but I love the GZ34 over the princess with rocks...
> 
> 
> I got a metal based Mullard GZ34 recently cheap on fleabay.  I notice the pins are a little loose, like I can turn it back and forth a little.  Is it safe to use?


 

 You mean the base is a little loose?  Generally this is not a problem, as long as there is nothing else wrong with the tube.  But since I have a tester, I always test the tubes I get prior to putting them in my amps...I have received many, many bad tubes, both on EBay, and even a few from reputable dealers.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Never tried GZ37 but I love the GZ34 over the princess with rocks...
> 
> 
> I got a metal based Mullard GZ34 recently cheap on fleabay.  I notice the pins are a little loose, like I can turn it back and forth a little.  Is it safe to use?


 

 The only concern that I would have with loose pins is that they may break off in the socket when you remove your tube. Then you would have to find a safe way of removing those broken-off pins without causing damage to the tube socket or your amp. Do you have a tube tester to make sure it is just loose pins and not a short as well?


----------



## dannie01

Hey guys, I have my new babe arrived this afternoon at 5pm, look awesome, much bigger than expected and than in the pics can tell. As strong as what Jack's other products I've owned, built like a tank.
   
   



   

   
  I make an initial comparison for the modded WA22 and stock WA5LE. At the beginning of the comparison, the WA5LE is equiped with a pair of Sophia 300B power tubes, a pair of Brimar CV-1988 black glass driver tubes and a pair of nameless Russian 5AR4 rectifiers. Connected by a Minitor Acoustic DIY power cord with Wattgate 330i ag and 350i ag plugs.
   
 The WA22 is equiped with a EML 5U4G mesh plate rectifier, a pair of TS 6SN7GT BG RP driver tubes and a pair of GEC 6AS7G. Connected by a Entreq Konstantin 2010 power cord.
  


 I can say this is an un-fair comparison, why?
  
 1/ The WA22 is crazily modded with some premium parts but the WA5LE is only in the stock form.
 2/ The WA5LE is running with a pair of crappy Russian 5AR4s, but luckily I've ordered a pair of EML and hopefully will be arrived within this week from Germany.
 3/ The WA22 is connected to the Linn Akurate DS with a pair of 5N pure silver multi strands XLR interconnection cable (0.4 x 2 for ground, 0.6 x 6 for positive and negative signal in each channel). The WA5LE also connected to the Linn DS single ended with a fairly cheap (compare with the XLR) Eichmann Express 4 interconnection cable.
  
 What about the sound with the two, I can say the WA5LE is not impressed at all under this un-fair comparison at the beginning. The component and tubes of the WA22 are fully burnt-in and in optimised performance. Especially with some monster V-Caps CuTF capacitors and Mill resistors and some Mundrof Silver/Gold internal hook up wires, they make significant improvement than the stock unit as I can recall by modding the amp step by step.
  
 I was using the Brimar in the WA5LE when I started listening as mentioned. The highs and mids is not as clear as I can remember from the WA22, vocal is not the as warm and fluid. A bit narrowed soundstage. Bass is not as tight and impact than WA22. I then swapped the CV-1988 by the TS 6SN7 in the WA5LE. Magic is here. The TS make a huge difference both in the WA5LE and WA22, the WA5LE come close to the WA22 almost in all spectrums, much more air in highs and detail, a bit smoother mids and vocal, warmer; the bass is tighter and bit lower note can be heard.
  

   
 Let it run for another hour, I swapped the power cords. There is another magic, highs more open, the vocal become much better, warm, fluid and smoother. Bass is much under control, more powerful and impact. Soundstage a bit wider but not as wide as WA22 and more instrument seperation.
  

   

   
 I will then try out a pair of Entreq RCA Silver cable in the WA5LE later this week, make the interconnect cable in a closer level, TBH, the Entreq should be a better cable than the XLR one.
  
 The last is have the WA5LE modded. After my wallet got recovered, I will order those premium component for the mod but this amp would cost more time since the construction of the PCB is needed to custom made a new one for the huge Jensen coupling and voltage filtering caps for 300B.
  
 That's it the end of the initial comparison of the WA22 and the WA5LE in 5 hours after the WA5LE get connected.
  
 Sorry for my lousy English, also I'm bad in writing this kind of article and describing sound.
   
  Edit.
  P.S. The WA5LE sounds very good indeed, as I've mentioned above, this is an un-fair comparison. If the EML 5U4G mesh plate arrived and have the better RCA cables swapped. I'm sure the WA5LE will perform much better. Will up-date later.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The GZ37 can often be used in place of the GZ34, but not always.  I actually have a couple nice GZ37's - but I'm not sure of the Woo amps can use them.  Anyone know?


 

 I have a couple of Mullard GZ37's that I use in my Woo amps. They work perfectly well. They are slimmer and taller than most ST tubes. I used the GZ37's where a 5U4 is called for.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The GZ37 can often be used in place of the GZ34, but not always.  I actually have a couple nice GZ37's - but I'm not sure of the Woo amps can use them.  Anyone know?
> 
> 
> You mean the base is a little loose?  Generally this is not a problem, as long as there is nothing else wrong with the tube.  But since I have a tester, I always test the tubes I get prior to putting them in my amps...I have received many, many bad tubes, both on EBay, and even a few from reputable dealers.


 




  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The only concern that I would have with loose pins is that they may break off in the socket when you remove your tube. Then you would have to find a safe way of removing those broken-off pins without causing damage to the tube socket or your amp. Do you have a tube tester to make sure it is just loose pins and not a short as well?


 
   
  I'm still looking to a tester but have not find one yet.  The pins seems like move with the metal base and I did not see any damage in the tube.  The pins is not loose in anyway at all.


----------



## jc9394

Danny, that is sweet looking Woo amps...


----------



## dannie01

Thank John.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Sorry for my lousy English, also I'm bad in writing this kind of article and describing sound.


 
   
  Danny. Your English is excellent. I wish I could speak another language fluently, too. English is my first and only language, though I try to speak a little Dutch at times when I'm in the Netherlands (niet zo goed). I can't hardly describe the sound a bird makes let alone the detailed nuanced sound characteristics of vacuum tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hey, what are those "caps" on your RCA inputs (above the XLR inputs) on the back of the WA22? What function are they performing?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Danny. Your English is excellent. I wish I could speak another language fluently, too. English is my first and only language, though I try to speak a little Dutch at times when I'm in the Netherlands (niet zo goed). I can't hardly describe the sound a bird makes let alone the detailed nuanced sound characteristics of vacuum tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for the kind words Clayton. For those caps on the RCA inputs, I copied the following from the Cardas website, "RCA Caps. Fit over unused female RCA connectors to eliminate EMI and RF noise absorption. They also protect from dust and corrosion."


----------



## jc9394

Maybe the Cardas end cap?
   
  EDIT - too late


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Maybe the Cardas end cap?
> 
> EDIT - too late


 

 Never too late, my friend.


----------



## hodgjy

Danny, that is one sweet amp.  I officially have amp envy.  Bad.
   
  Also, your English is fantastic.  You write better English than many of my college students, and they've sort of lived here in an English-speaking country their whole lives.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey guys, I have my new babe arrived this afternoon at 5pm, look awesome, much bigger than expected and than in the pics can tell. As strong as what Jack's other products I've owned, built like a tank.
> 
> 
> Sorry for my lousy English, also I'm bad in writing this kind of article and describing sound.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The GZ37 can often be used in place of the GZ34, but not always.  I actually have a couple nice GZ37's - but I'm not sure of the Woo amps can use them.  Anyone know?
> 
> 
> You mean the base is a little loose?  Generally this is not a problem, as long as there is nothing else wrong with the tube.  But since I have a tester, I always test the tubes I get prior to putting them in my amps...I have received many, many bad tubes, both on EBay, and even a few from reputable dealers.


 


 Here is a list that you can use in the WA5 according to Jack.
[size=9pt]5AR4/GZ34
 5AS4
 5R4/WGA/WGB
 5R4/GA/GB/GY/GYA/GYB
 5U4G/U52
 5U4GA/5U4GB
 GZ32/5V4/5V4G/5V4GA/CV593/CV729
 GZ33/CV5745/53KU/CV378 /U54
 GZ37/CV378
 CV575
 CV1377
 274B[/size]


----------



## Skylab

Right - but what about the WA6?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Danny, that is one sweet amp.  I officially have amp envy.  Bad.
> 
> Also, your English is fantastic.  You write better English than many of my college students, and they've sort of lived here in an English-speaking country their whole lives.


 


 Thanks, hodgjy.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right - but what about the WA6?


 
  X2
   
  I got the Jan 5931 and tried it today with 6SN7GT's and can't say I like the flavour much initially, I'll try again later but the Sophia Pricess seems to have more soundstage and air about it......
   
  Can the GZ34/37's be used in the WA6??


----------



## jc9394

I tried GZ34 on my WA6 and it sound very good with rock and hiphop, never try GZ37...


----------



## K_19

My GE/Mullard GZ34's strengths are its mids, which it noticeably fattens up/brings forward for my HD800.  It still has well extended highs/bass and is a good all arounder, but its main drawback against 5U4G/274B types is the soundstage.  It's definitely a bit more compact and slightly congested from what I've noticed.


----------



## David.M

So the Woo Audio thread starter and our jolly ole' buddy ole' pale dannie01 has concurred all his demons and finally stepped his game up with the WA5-LE.
   
  It may not be as strong as musicman59's 'The Black Beauty', it may not burn  with the same caliber as the B.B  , but it inherits the same personification with the passion to decrypt anything in living sight.. No...... this is not just a regular amp, this is an unholy spirit left to wander the graveyards of our fallen ancestors. 
   
  Folks, this is.... THE SILVER BANSHEE -  and it's ready to dismantle anything that gets in its way. Gratz on the WA5-LE danny boy, now please keep us updated on how well she rides the storm


----------



## monsieurguzel

great amp dannie01!!  Just FYI, the WA5 is an amp that changes very drastically with burn of tubes and caps.  I have the premium upgrades and it took about a month for the amp to settle down.  At first I didn't think the amp sounded very open or dynamic, but it opened up very nicely over time.  Tubes make a huge difference also in sound, but can be very expensive with nicer 300B tubes.
   
  Btw, what power cord are you using?  I still have a crappy one connected to mine and am looking for some recomendations.


----------



## Zombie_X

Man guys the T1 sounds incredible on my WA3+!! Too bad I have to send them back off to debitsohn soon... On the flip side my pair should arrive Wednesday or Thursday!!


----------



## TheWuss

so, how was the reterminating?  as easy as expected?
   
  in other news, my adapters from glenn arrived today.  woo hoo!!
   
  now, if those 6sn7s will just get here, i'll ready to go...


----------



## hodgjy

So jealous.  Must not have envy.  Must not want.  Must not be jealous.  Oh hell, it's useless.  I officially hate you forever.  
   
   
  Kidding.  Happy to hear you were able to get something you really wanted.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Man guys the T1 sounds incredible on my WA3+!! Too bad I have to send them back off to debitsohn soon... On the flip side my pair should arrive Wednesday or Thursday!!


----------



## Zombie_X

Re-terminating them was so effortless as they use a Neutrik plug. It took me only 20 minutes to do.
  
  The WA3+ gives them so much power man! They sound incredible when powered my the Woo and the Roc. Out of curiosity I plugged them into my brother's ipod and guess what? They sounded great!! No I'm kidding they sounded very bad out of the ipod.
   
  I can say the Sylvania 7236 tubes matches with them very nicely! It gives them more speed as well as a slightly brighter sound.
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> so, how was the reterminating?  as easy as expected?
> 
> in other news, my adapters from glenn arrived today.  woo hoo!!
> 
> now, if those 6sn7s will just get here, i'll ready to go...


----------



## davo50

Quote: Danny 





> That's it the end of the initial comparison of the WA22 and the WA5LE in 5 hours after the WA5LE get connected.
> 
> Sorry for my lousy English, also I'm bad in writing this kind of article and describing sound.
> 
> ...


 
  Glad the amp made the journey safe and sound.  I have missed it sorely while waiting for my new amp.  You were a pleasure to deal with and I have very much enjoyed our email conversations -you are a genuine nice guy.  I hope that by the time you get all your tubes and everything settled, that you will be glad for the purchase.  My WA5 should be here Wednesday!
   
  And actually, your english is pretty darn good!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





david.m said:


> So the Woo Audio thread starter and our jolly ole' buddy ole' pale dannie01 has concurred all his demons and finally stepped his game up with the WA5-LE.
> 
> It may not be as strong as musicman59's 'The Black Beauty', it may not burn  with the same caliber as the B.B  , but it inherits the same personification with the passion to decrypt anything in living sight.. No...... this is not just a regular amp, this is an unholy spirit left to wander the graveyards of our fallen ancestors.
> 
> Folks, this is.... THE SILVER BANSHEE -  and it's ready to dismantle anything that gets in its way. Gratz on the WA5-LE danny boy, now please keep us updated on how well she rides the storm


 
  This whole post put a smile on my face.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It helped remind me that all of this is supposed to be for fun and the passion of the music.  I tend to turn it into an obsession to be worried over at times.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Wow! More and more WA owners reporting their new gears. My eyes are turning green.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey guys, I have my new babe arrived this afternoon at 5pm, look awesome, much bigger than expected and than in the pics can tell. As strong as what Jack's other products I've owned, built like a tank.
> 
> 
> I was using the Brimar in the WA5LE when I started listening as mentioned. The highs and mids is not as clear as I can remember from the WA22, vocal is not the as warm and fluid. A bit narrowed soundstage. Bass is not as tight and impact than WA22. I then swapped the CV-1988 by the TS 6SN7 in the WA5LE. Magic is here. The TS make a huge difference both in the WA5LE and WA22, the WA5LE come close to the WA22 almost in all spectrums, much more air in highs and detail, a bit smoother mids and vocal, warmer; the bass is tighter and bit lower note can be heard.
> ...


 
   
  Congrats,
   
  I think you will hear a improvement when you get your EML 5U4G's . Don't know how the Princess 300B sounds, but I was told the the Princes solid plate (i think graphite) is a good sounding 300B.
  I like the Black Sands Violet Z1 power cord, but the biggest impact for the Z1 would be on your source player.
  And of course there's the NOS WE 300B's (before the mid 60's) teamed with your NOS TSRP, not only do you get the magic of the highs and lows from the TSRP's but the magic mids from the WE 300B. imo a match made in heaven.
   
  ss


----------



## dannie01

Really appreciated for all you guys' kind support.

  
  Quote: 





david.m said:


> Folks, this is.... THE SILVER BANSHEE -  and it's ready to dismantle anything that gets in its way. Gratz on the WA5-LE danny boy, now please keep us updated on how well she rides the storm


 


 Thanks David, this is not an easy decision in the beginning when I'm thinking of this up-grade. I was struggling on the WA5LE and the Balancing Act, of course the BA would cost lot more than the WA5LE. But finally I stay with all you guys here, remain a fanboy of Woo amp.
   
  Hey John, yeah, you rock and keep me stay here continue be a fanboy of Woo's product, thanks.
   
  Sure will keep up-date here when the EML arrived and the RCA cable swapped.
   
   
  Quote:


monsieurguzel said:


> great amp dannie01!!  Just FYI, the WA5 is an amp that changes very drastically with burn of tubes and caps.  I have the premium upgrades and it took about a month for the amp to settle down.  At first I didn't think the amp sounded very open or dynamic, but it opened up very nicely over time.  Tubes make a huge difference also in sound, but can be very expensive with nicer 300B tubes.
> 
> Btw, what power cord are you using?  I still have a crappy one connected to mine and am looking for some recomendations.


 


 Agree, monsieurguzel. the WA5LE is really great after some burn-in last night. As I've learn from the previous owner, the total time in use of this amp is about 100 hrs only, far from the time of the component being settled.
   
  For the PC in my WA5LE, please see this LINK for more information, it's from Sweden.

  
  Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Glad the amp made the journey safe and sound.  I have missed it sorely while waiting for my new amp.  You were a pleasure to deal with and I have very much enjoyed our email conversations -you are a genuine nice guy.  I hope that by the time you get all your tubes and everything settled, that you will be glad for the purchase.  My WA5 should be here Wednesday!
> 
> And actually, your english is pretty darn good!


 

 Hi David, thanks for the kind words. You too are also a nice gentleman to deal with. As I've mention, the crates are arrived in perfect shape and condition and your exceptional extra effort on the re-enforcement work on the packages is appreciated.
   
  Hope you'll enjoy your new combo of toys that would be arrived shortly.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hi David, thanks for the kind words. You too are also a nice gentleman to deal with. As I've mention, the crates are arrived in perfect shape and condition and your exceptional extra effort on the re-enforcement work on the packages is appreciated.
> 
> Hope you'll enjoy your new combo of toys that would be arrived shortly.


 
   
  dannie01. So how long did it take to ship your WA5LE from the continental USA to Hong Kong?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Congrats,
> 
> I think you will hear a improvement when you get your EML 5U4G's . Don't know how the Princess 300B sounds, but I was told the the Princes solid plate (i think graphite) is a good sounding 300B.
> I like the Black Sands Violet Z1 power cord, but the biggest impact for the Z1 would be on your source player.
> ...


 

 Thanks ss, the Sophia 300B now in my amp is a mesh plate. Will try KRs or EMLs 300B sometimes later. I can wonder the magic sound about the NOS WE300B but it's kinda treasure to me, can't touch but imagine. Great to know you've got a pair and it work good with the TSRP.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01. So how long did it take to ship your WA5LE from the continental USA to Hong Kong?


 

 From the shipping information received to my door step, 6 days (18 - 23 Aug), unbelievable fast for Fedex international economy. But they're pretty funny to split the 2 crates in 2 different fleight to HK, one arrived and decleared by custom on 21st but the other on 23rd.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> As for the adapter, ask Glenn the cost plus shipping as mine may be not be appropriate since it includes shipping to Malaysia. The green label tubes are pretty reasonable and they are all over eBay. I am listening to greater low range of frequencies in comparison with 6EW7 tubes. Hope this helps.


 
   
  Yes, you're of great help. I contacted Glenn this afternoon; sending his PayPal info Tuesday. As luck would have it, I ordered a pair of 6FD7 tubes last week, just days before finding out about the 6SN7 adapters. They arrived today with one DOA outta the box. So, I still don't know what my first 'Roll' sounds like. Wouldn't be surprised if I got going with the 6SN7s before the 6FD7s...


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations Danny, enjoy your new amp!
  It's a great amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> From the shipping information received to my door step, 6 days (18 - 23 Aug), unbelievable fast for Fedex international economy. But they're pretty funny to split the 2 crates in 2 different fleight to HK, one arrived and decleared by custom on 21st but the other on 23rd.


 

 Those crates with the amps look extremely heavy. Like they could have been part of the blocks of stones that make up one of the Great Pyramids of Giza. Very impressive. I must say that that amp blows away the competition by just looking at it. I mean, it doesn't look like you have to turn it on to enjoy it! It's Massive! Congratulations.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Yes they do too on mine. Also the Audeze LCD-2's and PS1000's.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Man guys the T1 sounds incredible on my WA3+!!


----------



## SpudHarris

For anyone wondering, the Sophia Princess will fit with the Shuguang CV181-Z 6SN7 Treasures in the WA6. My Treasures came today so I can confirm that they do fit (although tubes are touching) and indeed they are very special sounding. I let them warm up for about an hour and listened with my DT880/600's and there is a synergie.
   
  They also have more power than some tubes, I'm not using the pot as much as with my NOS Chrome Top Sylvanias. They look gorgeous and came in a beautiful presentation box also. No more rolling for a while I think.........


----------



## TheWuss

Now that's what i call maxing out your WA6, SpudHarris!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ x2 !


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> ... They look gorgeous and came in a beautiful presentation box also. No more rolling for a while I think.........


 

 Need pics... what good is Tube porn without pics


----------



## KZCloud89

Can we have some pics please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> For anyone wondering, the Sophia Princess will fit with the Shuguang CV181-Z 6SN7 Treasures in the WA6. My Treasures came today so I can confirm that they do fit (although tubes are touching) and indeed they are very special sounding. I let them warm up for about an hour and listened with my DT880/600's and there is a synergie.
> 
> They also have more power than some tubes, I'm not using the pot as much as with my NOS Chrome Top Sylvanias. They look gorgeous and came in a beautiful presentation box also. No more rolling for a while I think.........


----------



## SpudHarris

Have to borrow a camera as my daughter has pinched mine for her scouting camp and won't be back until Saturday........
   
  I'm sure we have a spare around here, watch this space


----------



## TheWuss

don't want to steal SpudHarris' thunder too much...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  but here's a shot of my freshly installed Sylvania 6SN7-GTB.
   
  so far, nothing special.  sound about the same as my GE fat bottle 6fd7... 
  we'll see how they sound after they cook for a while...


----------



## Zombie_X

I see you have the T1 currently plugged in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Very nice choice of phones sir!!


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I see you have the T1 currently plugged in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 only two more days, zombie.
  now clean up that drool!!!


----------



## Zombie_X

Mine arrive tomorrow actually, the tracking got updated by two days! I mean the estimated delivery was made shorter.
   
  Can't wait to have my own set! Dave's pair was just....oh man..


----------



## TheWuss

great news!
  hope you can sleep tonight...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> For anyone wondering, the Sophia Princess will fit with the Shuguang CV181-Z 6SN7 Treasures in the WA6. My Treasures came today so I can confirm that they do fit (although tubes are touching) and indeed they are very special sounding. I let them warm up for about an hour and listened with my DT880/600's and there is a synergie.
> 
> They also have more power than some tubes, I'm not using the pot as much as with my NOS Chrome Top Sylvanias. They look gorgeous and came in a beautiful presentation box also. No more rolling for a while I think.........


 

 Glad to hear they worked out for you.  Seeing somebody else drop big coin on tubes for the WA6 makes me pine for some round plate tung sols, but fortunately for me patience worked out in my favor.
   
  I nabbed a pair of Sylvania Bad Boys the other day.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  These are actually real bad boys too.  These days people seem to think pretty much any Sylvania GT with green print and black t plates is a bad boy, but I stumbled upon the real deal and nabbed them up right away for what I think was actually a pretty decent price considering how incredibly rare they are now.
   
  I can't wait for them to get here.  I think my tuberolling will be finished too once they do.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hate it when the forum software won't let you put the cursor below the quote.......
   
  Anyway, the Sylvania yellow label are supposed to be a super value.  Possibly the best of all the GTBs, but it won't have the refinement or inner resolution of the earlier GT tubes or the VT-231s.  I think you'll be happy once they cook for a while, but if it doesn't work out there are lots of 6SN7 options out there still.  My greyglass changed a LOT during their first 20 hours so there is definitely something to look forward too if they really are NOS.
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> don't want to steal SpudHarris' thunder too much...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> I think you'll be happy once they cook for a while...


 

 i think you're right on.  at 3 hours burn-in, i'm hearing them open up just a bit...
  of course, too early to say anything definitive about the tubes, but...


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> but here's a shot of my freshly installed Sylvania 6SN7-GTB.
> 
> so far, nothing special.  sound about the same as my GE fat bottle 6fd7...
> we'll see how they sound after they cook for a while...


 

 Congrats on those..... I have the exact same tubes and they will definately open up, they have been in my WA6 since they got here and are definately a must have tube.
   
  The only camera I could lay my hands on was on my phone so please excuse the rubbish pics, I dare say they wouldn't be a whole heap better with a proper camera as It's not my forte really. Anyhow because of these I am feeling tired this morning as I had a late listening session. In my opinion these are worth the £100 I paid


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Congrats on those..... I have the exact same tubes and they will definately open up, they have been in my WA6 since they got here and are definately a must have tube.
> 
> The only camera I could lay my hands on was on my phone so please excuse the rubbish pics, I dare say they wouldn't be a whole heap better with a proper camera as It's not my forte really. Anyhow because of these I am feeling tired this morning as I had a late listening session. In my opinion these are worth the £100 I paid


 

 WOW! The Treasure with adapters are as large as the Sophia, impressive looking indeed.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





thewuss said:


>


 




  Quote: 





spudharris said:


>


 


 That is some tube fetish guys, simply great!


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks Seamaster.......
   
  I was searching earlier and stumbled over a post from a while ago where you were searching for a decent GZ34 / 5AR4, did you ever find a decent one? If so, anything to better the Sophia?
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## KZCloud89

Thanks Spud for the pics.
   
  I have a pair of Treasures on the way my 2 weeks old WA6.  Do I need socket adapters for the Treasures?

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Congrats on those..... I have the exact same tubes and they will definately open up, they have been in my WA6 since they got here and are definately a must have tube.
> 
> The only camera I could lay my hands on was on my phone so please excuse the rubbish pics, I dare say they wouldn't be a whole heap better with a proper camera as It's not my forte really. Anyhow because of these I am feeling tired this morning as I had a late listening session. In my opinion these are worth the £100 I paid


----------



## SpudHarris

No worries, sorry they aren't better.
   
  Yes you will need the adapters as for all intents and purposes the Treasures are the same family as 6SN7. Get them from Jack ($40) or from Glenn from this thread. Not sure where TheWuss got his but they look better than mine. His are the same diameter as the tube base (which looks nice) mine are slightly smaller I think...... Treasures are wicked!


----------



## KZCloud89

Thanks Spud.  Will contact Wuss for the adapters.


----------



## balderon

I am interested in the adapters as well. I sent an email to Jack but have not heard back. I like the look of adapters TheWuss found. Please let me know what you find out. Thanks


----------



## balderon

Is your WA6 newer and has the larger cutouts for the 6DE7's? I have an older WA6 and from what I can see from the pictures it may not work. Do you think adapters fit into the older WA6 sockets?
  
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> don't want to steal SpudHarris' thunder too much...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## KZCloud89

Search ebay for "6SN7 adapters" for seller ID 2359glenn.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





			
				balderon said:
			
		

> Is your WA6 newer and has the larger cutouts for the 6DE7's? I have an older WA6 and from what I can see from the pictures it may not work. Do you think adapters fit into the older WA6 sockets?


 
   
  mine is the newer wa6, with larger dia. cut-outs.
   
  however, glenn's adapters have a small base that should work with the older 2a6.
  i say _should_.  would love for somebody who has old wa6 and glenn's adapters to chime in...


----------



## balderon

I looked at all the adapters for seller ID 2359glenn but I didn't see a specific adapter for 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7. The closest I found was for 6FQ7 but the pinout is different than the 6DE7. Is there another I missed? fleabay for 2359glenn
  
  Quote: 





kzcloud89 said:


> Search ebay for "6SN7 adapters" for seller ID 2359glenn.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





balderon said:


> I looked at all the adapters for seller ID 2359glenn but I didn't see a specific adapter for 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7. The closest I found was for 6FQ7 but the pinout is different than the 6DE7. Is there another I missed? fleabay for 2359glenn


 

 send him a pm here.  he has to special make them.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> mine is the newer wa6, with larger dia. cut-outs.
> 
> however, glenn's adapters have a small base that should work with the older 2a6.
> i say _should_.  would love for somebody who has old wa6 and glenn's adapters to chime in...


 
   
  Do you have glenn's adapters? Would you mind measuring (precision not required) the diameter of your adapter?


----------



## che15

Glenn's adapters will fit the older WA6 , I am waiting for a purchase statement from him so I can order them. Let me know if you have any more ?s.


----------



## balderon

^^ Message sent. Thanks all!
   
  EDIT: Received a response from Jack at Woo Audio. The 6SN7 adapters are $35/pair however they will not fit the older WA6 as they are larger than the 6DE7 cutouts.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





balderon said:


> Do you have glenn's adapters? Would you mind measuring (precision not required) the diameter of your adapter?


 

 Glenn's adapter is 22.5mm wide at the bottom, and the older WA6 can accept one up to 25mm wide, so it fits.  I'm trying to find my hidden box of 6SN7 tubes left over from my DV336i so I can try my pair of Sylvania VT-231 with mine.


----------



## balderon

Thanks HeadphoneAddict! I appreciate taking the time to measure the adapter. I have ordered a pair from Glenn and should be shipping early next week. I also have a pair of Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures on the way.


----------



## SpudHarris

balderon, you are in for a treat with the Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures when they get there. I have about 25 hours on mine and they have already matured into something very special indeed....
   
  As a back up I just bought these and am waiting for them to cross the water, someone mentioned that the Green Label versions were up there with some of the best 6SN7's and I got these at a very good price  Anyone else using these?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I guess that my Ken Rad VT231 is missing in transit and looking elsewhere for other tubes now. I have Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z tubes in mind but before I pull the trigger, I am curious to know whether the pair of tubes will be touching each other if fitted in a WA6SE.
   
  Please to hear some feedbacks.
   
   
   
  PS: I have to 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapters from Glenn.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I guess that my Ken Rad VT231 is missing in transit and looking elsewhere for other tubes now. I have Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z tubes in mind but before I pull the trigger, I am curious to know whether the pair of tubes will be touching each other if fitted in a WA6SE.
> 
> Please to hear some feedbacks.
> 
> ...


 


 From the pics by SpudHarris with Treasure installed and my ex-WA6SE, seem the same chassis is use for both WA6 & WA6SE's  output unit.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> balderon, you are in for a treat with the Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures when they get there. I have about 25 hours on mine and they have already matured into something very special indeed....
> 
> As a back up I just bought these and am waiting for them to cross the water, someone mentioned that the Green Label versions were up there with some of the best 6SN7's and I got these at a very good price  Anyone else using these?


 

 I have been happy with a pair of 6FD7's. My ears are very curious to hear the difference. The Treasures are scheduled for delivery tomorrow but Glenn does not expect to ship the adapters until sometime next week.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I was reading that the Treasure draws 50% more current than the typical 6SN7. As such I wonder whether our WA6SE transformer can withstand the additional requirement. Appreciate feedbacks.


----------



## TheWuss

Balderon - i was happy with the 6de7 tube types, and was happy with the wa6...
 But, when i bought the t1, i couldn't find tubes that really sounded right with the headphones.
 Suddenly the kicas caliente was my go to amp because of its balance and even handedness.

 So, i decided to give the 6sn7 tubes a try, hoping i could eke a little better sound from the woo.
 And i couldn't be happier with the results.
 And i bought some middle of the road sylvania tubes to start out with.
 And those are turning out to be better than any of the 6de7 tubes by far.

 I think i can say this is a no brainer for anyone with a wa6 amp. The improvement is astonishing to these ears.
 Let us know when your adapters arrive what you think.
  And be sure to give the tubes a few hours...


----------



## K_19

Does anyone have noticeable microphonics problem with their tubes on the WA6SE?  So far, my Prototype WA6SE unit seems to be microphonic with pretty much every tubes I've tried them with (very noticeable when I touch the unit itself, or turn the volume knob), as well as giving a slight tube hum... either of which aren't really noticeable when music is on, but still annoying nonetheless with quiet pieces and when I'm changing volume and stuff.  I'm fairly certain it isn't the tubes themselves degrading since most have tested good or are NOS to my knowledge... and I never had any sorts of these problems with the WA6 unit.  Not sure if it is just my unit or just a common thing with SE units (I know many tube amps have humming/microphonic issues to a degree, it is probably likely that my previous WA6 just happened to be so quiet in those areas).
   
  Will tube dampers help in alleviating some of these problems?  I've never played around with those before, so if anyone can refer me to a place where I can purchase them it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Does anyone have noticeable microphonics problem with their tubes on the WA6SE?  So far, my Prototype WA6SE unit seems to be microphonic with pretty much every tubes I've tried them with (very noticeable when I touch the unit itself, or turn the volume knob), as well as giving a slight tube hum... either of which aren't really noticeable when music is on, but still annoying nonetheless with quiet pieces and when I'm changing volume and stuff.  I'm fairly certain it isn't the tubes themselves degrading since most have tested good or are NOS to my knowledge... and I never had any sorts of these problems with the WA6 unit.  Not sure if it is just my unit or just a common thing with SE units (I know many tube amps have humming/microphonic issues to a degree, it is probably likely that my previous WA6 just happened to be so quiet in those areas).
> 
> Will tube dampers help in alleviating some of these problems?  I've never played around with those before, so if anyone can refer me to a place where I can purchase them it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


 

 No microphonics with mine,just very very slight transformer hum nothing worth worrying about.


----------



## hodgjy

My Woo3 seems to be very picky about certain tubes, particularly with microphonics.  I bought a series of tubes from one particular vendor, and the microphonic to non-microphonic ratio was 2:1, even though the tubes were supposedly tested for microphonics prior to shipping.
   
  I'm not sure if this is just random chance or if my amp is really picky.
   
  Another thing I noticed is that when I put a fresh NOS tube into the amp, it may be microphonic for the first 20 hours or so until the residual gases get removed.  However, some tubes remained microphonic after this, making me request an exchange from the vendor, much to their dismay despite the 30 day guarantee. 
  
  If you want dampers, google Herbies audio lab.
   
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Does anyone have noticeable microphonics problem with their tubes on the WA6SE?  So far, my Prototype WA6SE unit seems to be microphonic with pretty much every tubes I've tried them with (very noticeable when I touch the unit itself, or turn the volume knob), as well as giving a slight tube hum... either of which aren't really noticeable when music is on, but still annoying nonetheless with quiet pieces and when I'm changing volume and stuff.  I'm fairly certain it isn't the tubes themselves degrading since most have tested good or are NOS to my knowledge... and I never had any sorts of these problems with the WA6 unit.  Not sure if it is just my unit or just a common thing with SE units (I know many tube amps have humming/microphonic issues to a degree, it is probably likely that my previous WA6 just happened to be so quiet in those areas).
> 
> Will tube dampers help in alleviating some of these problems?  I've never played around with those before, so if anyone can refer me to a place where I can purchase them it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## dannie01

I might be lucky on this, from the WA6SE to WA22 than WA5LE now. I don't experience any transformer hum or tube hissing or microphonis with those 3 amp from Jack, just death silent.


----------



## grokit

Yeah no hum or microphonics here but I was told that the Princess rectifier will hum after 30 minutes or so on my WA22.


----------



## Seamaster

Here too, even after mod, as silent as a dead horse


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I was reading that the Treasure draws 50% more current than the typical 6SN7. As such I wonder whether our WA6SE transformer can withstand the additional requirement. Appreciate feedbacks.


 
   
  Found another article that stated the specification is the same as 6SN7GT and keeping my eye on a match pair Premium A ShuGuang Treasures CV181-Z http://cgi.ebay.com/matched-pair-Premium-ShuGuang-TREASURES-tube-CV181-Z-/320578800185?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa3fc4a39#shId . 
   
  The asking price is much higher than most of the NOS and wonder how will it perform on a WA6SE, and will it be overkill..?
   






 My order for a 1940's Ken Rad VT-231 is lost in transit as for now...
[size=large]  [/size]


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> My order for a 1940's Ken Rad VT-231 is lost in transit as for now...
> [size=large]  [/size]


 


 Sorry to know about that but is there any insurance on the tubes or can you dispute the case if bought from Ebay or paid by Paypal?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Sorry to know about that but is there any insurance on the tubes or can you dispute the case if bought from Ebay or paid by Paypal?


 

 The eBay seller ask to wait and I shall revisit the claim next week.
   
  I am holding on the CV181-Z till I have the refund...


----------



## dannie01

Good luck with the refund, buddy. In my past experience, I bought a pair of tubes from Canada and arrived over a month later because the post office was wrongly sent it to Phillipines and then re-direct back to my address.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I hope it will be delivered soon else I will be burning extra money to get replacement..


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> I think i can say this is a no brainer for anyone with a wa6 amp. The improvement is astonishing to these ears.
> Let us know when your adapters arrive what you think.
> And be sure to give the tubes a few hours...


 

 Another happy convert.    I could never go back to any tube in the 6DE7 family.  I would be completely unhappy with that sound now.  The wait for my Bad Boys is killing me, though it is starting to make me a little bit sad that this may be the end of the road so far as experimentation goes.  The TSR's are really the only other NOS tube that is regarded as highly.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Another happy convert.    I could never go back to any tube in the 6DE7 family.  I would be completely unhappy with that sound now.  The wait for my Bad Boys is killing me, though it is starting to make me a little bit sad that this may be the end of the road so far as experimentation goes.  The TSR's are really the only other NOS tube that is regarded as highly.


 
   
  You still have the 6F8G , 7AF7 , 7N7 , and 6CG7/6FQ7 to experiment with. The 6F8G round plate sounds the best to me
  sounding as good or better than the TungSol round plate 6SN7s for much less money.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Glenn, I am considering  a pair of ShuGuang Treasure CV181-Z to be used with your adapters and my WA6SE... What do you say..


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Glenn, I am considering  a pair of ShuGuang Treasure CV181-Z to be used with your adapters and my WA6SE... What do you say..


 

 I cant say haven't tried the ShuGuang CV181 yet.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Found another article that stated the specification is the same as 6SN7GT and keeping my eye on a match pair Premium A ShuGuang Treasures CV181-Z http://cgi.ebay.com/matched-pair-Premium-ShuGuang-TREASURES-tube-CV181-Z-/320578800185?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa3fc4a39#shId .
> 
> 
> [size=large]  [/size]


 

 I've never really understood what game Shuguang is playing here.  A *real* CV181 is an ECC32, not an ECC33.  An ECC33 is directly equivalent to a 6SN7GT.  An ECC32 is *NOT*.  The ECC32/CV181 does indeed draw 50% more heater current than a 6SN7GT does.  So if the Shuggie "CV181" does not, then it's a 6SN7GT in a small ST bottle, and NOT a CV181, regardless of what the name says.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You still have the 6F8G , 7AF7 , 7N7 , and 6CG7/6FQ7 to experiment with. The 6F8G round plate sounds the best to me
> sounding as good or better than the TungSol round plate 6SN7s for much less money.


 

 Agree with you here.
   
  By the way, I got your tube and adpters. Thanks. I have not had chance to do real test on them yet, because i am out of reference headphone right now


  
  Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Glenn, I am considering  a pair of ShuGuang Treasure CV181-Z to be used with your adapters and my WA6SE... What do you say..


 
  I don't get it why people want spend $150 for a copy, not spend $200 for a pair of real thing...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Agree with you here.
> 
> By the way, I got your tube and adpters. Thanks. I have not had chance to do real test on them yet, because i am out of reference headphone right now
> 
> ...


 

  I think to me the 6F8G round plate sounds better than the real CV181 for much less money.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Should have posted this here in the first place, but do you guys think my Woo Audio 6 would sound good with Beyerdynamics DT770 (600 ohm or 250 ohm)?


----------



## hodgjy

I would say that Beyers and Woos are a match made in heaven.  But, that's my opinion, and I'm biased.  I have a Woo and some Beyers.
  
  Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Should have posted this here in the first place, but do you guys think my Woo Audio 6 would sound good with Beyerdynamics DT770 (600 ohm or 250 ohm)?


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I would say that Beyers and Woos are a match made in heaven.  But, that's my opinion, and I'm biased.  I have a Woo and some Beyers.


 

 Perfect! So the Woo 6 would be able to drive the 600 ohm version more than adequately? I'm almost positive it can, but I just need to make sure.


----------



## hodgjy

I would say the Woo 6 can handle 250 or 600 ohms.  The transformer coupled output helps the amp out with lower impedance cans, but doesn't take away its ability to drive high impedance cans.  The specs say it can handle 8-600 ohms.  On the other hand, the Woo OTL amps are listed at 30-600 ohms.
  
  Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Perfect! So the Woo 6 would be able to drive the 600 ohm version more than adequately? I'm almost positive it can, but I just need to make sure.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Thanks! I'm ordering the 600 ohm version shortly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You still have the 6F8G , 7AF7 , 7N7 , and 6CG7/6FQ7 to experiment with. The 6F8G round plate sounds the best to me
> sounding as good or better than the TungSol round plate 6SN7s for much less money.


 

 I see some users using 6F8G tubes in their WA22s, but it never occurred to me I could give them a try.  I guess since they can replace a 6SN7 it makes sense.  By 6F8G roundplate do you mean a Tung Sol 6F8G Glenn?  If they are a match for the 6SN7 tubes and cost less it would be an interesting angle to look into.  I don't know if the larger ST bottle shape of the 6F8G would work in a WA6 though.  The Shuguang Treasure physically touches the rectifier tube when inserted according to SpudHarris so if they are any wider in diameter it would be a no go.


----------



## Seamaster

By 6F8G roundplate do you mean a Tung Sol 6F8G?
   
  No, there are few different US brands make roundplate. National Union is esaier to find. They are not as fat as Shuguang CV181


----------



## che15

Please do not buy the ones I am trying to get on eBay , I can not afford a lot right now. They tung sol round plates.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I guess ShuGuang Treasure CV181-Z is ok with WA6SE and I will be making the payment later today. How much different should I be expecting for a Premium A grade vs Standard grade, I mean sonically..


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I see some users using 6F8G tubes in their WA22s, but it never occurred to me I could give them a try.  I guess since they can replace a 6SN7 it makes sense.  By 6F8G round plate do you mean a Tung Sol 6F8G Glenn?  If they are a match for the 6SN7 tubes and cost less it would be an interesting angle to look into.  I don't know if the larger ST bottle shape of the 6F8G would work in a WA6 though.  The Shuguang Treasure physically touches the rectifier tube when inserted according to SpudHarris so if they are any wider in diameter it would be a no go.


 

 Seamaster is right the 6F8 is smaller than the Shuguang Treasures and will fit with no problem.
  Thy were made by TungSol , National Union right now I an using a pair branded Philco with round plates not
  shore who made them but thy sound good.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I guess ShuGuang Treasure CV181-Z is ok with WA6SE and I will be making the payment later today. How much different should I be expecting for a Premium A grade vs Standard grade, I mean sonically..


 

 Love to know too but I think I will get the regular matched pair myself.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Seamaster is right the 6F8 is smaller than the Shuguang Treasures and will fit with no problem.
> Thy were made by TungSol , National Union right now I an using a pair branded Philco with round plates not
> shore who made them but thy sound good.


 
   
  I'm still shopping for a pair of 6SN7 tubes while I await your shipment. I too, would love to save some $$$. Will I be able to drop the 6F8G right in the adapters (WA6SE) you sold me?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Seamaster is right the 6F8 is smaller than the Shuguang Treasures and will fit with no problem.
> Thy were made by TungSol , National Union right now I an using a pair branded Philco with round plates not
> shore who made them but thy sound good.


 

 Thanks.  I guess the question is if a 6DE7 to 6F8G adapter is possible, though I am getting ahead of myself here.  I haven't even gotten to listen to the Bad Boys I have coming yet.  If they are as good as I hope they are I may not be wanting to buy more tubes.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I guess ShuGuang Treasure CV181-Z is ok with WA6SE and I will be making the payment later today. How much different should I be expecting for a Premium A grade vs Standard grade, I mean sonically..


 


 The premium grade have tighter tolerance, and better match, sonically no difference.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> The premium grade have tighter tolerance, and better match, sonically no difference.


 

  
  Woo Audio amps does not requires matched tubes right, the will premium grade Treasures go to waste?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Woo Audio amps does not requires matched tubes right, the will premium grade Treasures go to waste?


 

 Woo amps have some tolerance for matching, but you will hear it if they are too off.  I would ask for Matched pair instead go for premium grade.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> Perfect! So the Woo 6 would be able to drive the 600 ohm version more than adequately? I'm almost positive it can, but I just need to make sure.


 

 My WA6 is very dependant on tube type for driving my DT880/600's. The Treasures and 6FD7's are about the best I've come across for a decent volume, with most other tubes my Woo is almost maxxed out.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm still shopping for a pair of 6SN7 tubes while I await your shipment. I too, would love to save some $$$. Will I be able to drop the 6F8G right in the adapters (WA6SE) you sold me?


 

 No the 6F8 has one of it's grids run to the top of the tube so the adapter has a wire come out that is run to the top of the tube.
  Theair is some pictures a couple of pages back of the WA22 with 6F8G tubes in it you can see what thay look like.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> No the 6F8 has one of it's grids run to the top of the tube so the adapter has a wire come out that is run to the top of the tube.
> Theair is some pictures a couple of pages back of the WA22 with 6F8G tubes in it you can see what thay look like.


 
   
   
  Here are two pics of TS 6F8G with Glenn's sdapters in WA22 and WA5LE.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

WOW!


----------



## dannie01

I'm listening the WA5LE/HD800 with stock rectifier, Sophia 300B and TS 6F8F with adapters. The mids and highs seem a bit sibilant and harsh than the TS 6SN7 GT but bit more lower bass and powerful. Dunno if this is something about the rectifier, the EML 5U4Gs are still in the way, hopefully could arrive on Mon or Tue and will make the amp sounds better than the stock rectifiers.


----------



## jc9394

Dannie01, I can't image how hot in your listening room is now... time to turn up the AC to cool those babies.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Dannie01, I can't image how hot in your listening room is now... time to turn up the AC to cool those babies.


 


 HK is hot but my listening room is pretty cool because I'll turn on the AC once I got home. So, those babies are living in a very comfortable enviroment.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> HK is hot but my listening room is pretty cool because I'll turn on the AC once I got home. So, those babies are living in a very comfortable enviroment.


 

 They probably lives better than me...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They probably lives better than me...


----------



## SpudHarris

2359Glenn - I have sent an enquiry via e-bay reference adapters for the WA6 and 6F8G. A) can the 6F8G be used with the WA6? and B) is there an adapter to suit, straight out of the WA6?
   
  Thanks in advance....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Here are two pics of TS 6F8G with Glenn's sdapters in WA22 and WA5LE.


 

 Thanks for the assist dannie01. What a fine example you've got on display! There's something about tubes... and their arrangement... on or off, pleasing. Very very pleasing.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the assist dannie01. What a fine example you've got on display! There's something about tubes... and their arrangement... on or off, pleasing. Very very pleasing.


 

 Yes, in good favor, indeed. I can't stop looking at your pictures of your Den of Woos, dannie01--I must hide my wallet.
   
  How much more time do you have with the WA22 before it leaves your comfortable air-conditioned environment?


----------



## Xcalibur255

All of these WA22 pictures are bad for my imagination.  Someday they might be bad for my wallet too.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the assist dannie01. What a fine example you've got on display! There's something about tubes... and their arrangement... on or off, pleasing. Very very pleasing.


 

 You are welcome.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, in good favor, indeed. I can't stop looking at your pictures of your Den of Woos, dannie01--I must hide my wallet.
> 
> How much more time do you have with the WA22 before it leaves your comfortable air-conditioned environment?


 

 The WA22 will on the way to it's new home in this Wednesday.
   
       Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> All of these WA22 pictures are bad for my imagination.  Someday they might be bad for my wallet too.


 

 Hey buddy, there is no way to hide your wallet because the devil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in your mind will always bring it out when you're not alert. I'm one of the happy victims of my Woos.


----------



## Thaddy

dannie01, have you ever had the chance to compare your WA22 to the WA2?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> dannie01, have you ever had the chance to compare your WA22 to the WA2?


 


 Sorry, I don't have a WA2 to compare.


----------



## Zombie_X

Man I bought some cheapo NOS 6N1P's and popped them in my WA3+ and man they have more power and gain over my Bugle Boys!! Volume is a little more than 1/8 the way up and it's loud on my T1's! They also sound pretty good.
   
  You guys should try them!!
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280533055194&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1902wt_964


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Just paid for a matched pair of ShuGuang Treasuer CV181-Z and it will be shipped the next day. Hope the performance will justify the price paid.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Just paid for a matched pair of ShuGuang Treasuer CV181-Z and it will be shipped the next day. Hope the performance will justify the price paid.


 

 Same here, did you get the premium one?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Same here, did you get the premium one?


 

 Nope, just opt for the standard match pair..


----------



## Skylab

Shameless plug:  I am selling a pair of Treasure CV181's for $80 shipped Conus...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Shameless plug:  I am selling a pair of Treasure CV181's for $80 shipped Conus...


 

 Shamelessly sent you a PM and use it as spare.

  
  Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> Nope, just opt for the standard match pair..


 

 I was looking at the standard matched pair but was a sucker for "PREMIUM"


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Man I bought some cheapo NOS 6N1P's and popped them in my WA3+ and man they have more power and gain over my Bugle Boys!! Volume is a little more than 1/8 the way up and it's loud on my T1's! They also sound pretty good.
> 
> You guys should try them!!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280533055194&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1902wt_964


 

 love the 6n1p. it's as good and better than most 6dj8/6922 variants for fraction of the price.
  the 6n2p has even higher mu/gain and sq is just as good. another russian dual triode that's
  great, imo, is the 6n6p. it has the lowest gain of the three but very addictive sound presentation.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Shamelessly sent you a PM and use it as spare.
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking at the standard matched pair but was a sucker for "PREMIUM"


 

 Where did you purchase them from? I was looking to get them from grant fidelity, but the tube shop implies that grant fidelity came up with the entire premium A/premium B designation on their own. For example, the representative from the tube shop stated he went to the shuguang manufacturer in china and they confirmed that they did not classify their treasure tubes in such a way.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Where did you purchase them from? I was looking to get them from grant fidelity, but the tube shop implies that grant fidelity came up with the entire premium A/premium B designation on their own. For example, the representative from the tube shop stated he went to the shuguang manufacturer in china and they confirmed that they did not classify their treasure tubes in such a way.


 

 Premium...
  http://cgi.ebay.com/matched-pair-Premium-ShuGuang-TREASURES-tube-CV181-Z-/320578800185?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa3fc4a39
   
  Standard matched pair...
  http://cgi.ebay.com/matched-pair-ShuGuang-50years-TREASURES-tube-CV181-Z-/320581509282?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa425a0a2
   
   
  The Premium is almost half price compare to Grant Fidelity, so I go for the premium version.  At lease the box is worth $60...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The Premium is almost half price compare to Grant Fidelity, so I go for the premium version.  At lease the box is worth $60...


 


 Are you serious that paper box would cost $60 or you just want to make yourself feel better for the cost of the Treasure Premium? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, enjoy your new toys and share with us how it sound.


----------



## SpudHarris

Mine came as a matched pair (not premium) but did come with a very nice presentation box, not that they will ever get put back in there


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Are you serious that paper box would cost $60 or you just want to make yourself feel better for the cost of the Treasure Premium?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It is a presentation box, but you know Ii just try to convince myself it is worth the money over the regular one.  I will never able to tell the difference...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Mine came as a matched pair (not premium) but did come with a very nice presentation box, not that they will ever get put back in there


 
   
  Take it outter here, I don't need this..  J/K.  Ok, I will just go get a beer now.  Where did you get yours from?


----------



## Thaddy

Speaking of tubes, my matched pairs of the RCA Black Plate 6AS7G and Tungsol 7236's just arrived.  Somehow I got lucky and both matched out to be nearly perfect.  I have the 6AS7G's warming up right now with some Rush


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Take it outter here, I don't need this..  J/K.  Ok, I will just go get a beer now.  Where did you get yours from?


 

 £100 delivered from 'PMComponents' on e-bay..... I think £100 was quite good in comparison to some sellers and the box is a nice touch


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> £100 delivered from 'PMComponents' on e-bay..... I think £100 was quite good in comparison to some sellers and the box is a nice touch


 

 It is a very good price, they don't have it anymore.   You got a good deal.


----------



## Skylab

Sheesh - my CV181's came in crummy paper boxes, and from Grant Fidelity!


----------



## monsieurguzel

Yup, I also payed premium price for mine and they came in the regular boxes.  Jack from Woo Audio told me that they regularly come in the standard boxes, not the fancier ones.  Must be a new thing.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sheesh - my CV181's came in crummy paper boxes, and from Grant Fidelity!


----------



## hodgjy

Maybe Grant Fidelity is going in the cigar business soon.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sheesh - my CV181's came in crummy paper boxes, and from Grant Fidelity!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Maybe Grant Fidelity is going in the cigar business soon.


 

 Vacuum tubes rolled in paper that end up looking like cigars--what a concept!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Shameless plug:  I am selling a pair of Treasure CV181's for $80 shipped Conus...


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Shamelessly sent you a PM and use it as spare.
> 
> I was looking at the standard matched pair but was a sucker for "PREMIUM"


 

 If this falls through let me know.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> If this falls through let me know.


 

 Sorry HPA, paid already.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Shameless plug:  I am selling a pair of Treasure CV181's for $80 shipped Conus...


 
   
  I'm in the market for a 'Premium' pair. Obviously, a bit late I am. Must've been the extra time spent fixin' that elegant cup of green tea this morning
  (Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearl).


----------



## Silent One

Could someone please tell me which NOS RCA 6SN7 tube (style) is shipped with the WA5-LE & WA22? Never got to hear my new 6FD7s with my WA6SE 'cause one tube is DOA.
   
  Since I'm shopping for 6SN7s, Jack agreed to give me $20 credit toward a matched pair of RCA 6SN7s. But he did not specify which style. For example, tall glass, short or medium; smoked or clear; plates ect..
   
  I could've sent a follow up message but then, I'd rather see Jack getting all of your goodies shipped in a timely manner.


----------



## che15

FYI for older WA6 owner looking to buy 6SN7 tube adapters, make sure that you let the maker know about the size of the small openings where the tubes fit in . They did not fit my amp and I am having to use socket savers under the adapters which I think is taking a lot of the increased audio qualities of the 6SN7s away. Right now they do not sound better than my fat bottle 6FD7 sylvanias and both pair of 6SN7s that I have are used so they should not need much burning.
  I am waiting for Glenn to contact me to see what he can do , I am sure he will do his best to solve the issue , he is very professional and has great costumer service skills.


----------



## Thaddy

Not sure if anyone is interested, but there is a maxed out WA2 up on the 'gon...http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1288070855&/Woo-Audio-Model-2-class-a-head


----------



## TheWuss

guys,
  to be clear  ---  i talked to cesar (che15) about the adapters he just received from glenn.
  and, if i understand this correctly, it's not the diameter of glenn's adapters that's the issue.  it's the height of the bottom portion of the adapter.
  since the sockets on the wa6 are recessed into the amp, the adapter must be both the right diameter AND height to plug fully into the sockets.
   
  i noticed this with mine, but didn't think much about it, when i plugged them in.  the larger top half of my adapters sunk slightly into the amp when i plugged them in all the way.
  like i said, i didn't think much about it.  but, now i can see that the bottom part of the adapter needs to be taller to plug into the old woo models.
   
  just giving everybody a heads-up.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Not sure if anyone is interested, but there is a maxed out WA2 up on the 'gon...http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1288070855&/Woo-Audio-Model-2-class-a-head


 
   
  <br />
  <br />
  <div class="quote-container">
  <span>Quote:</span>
  <div class="quote-block">
  Originally Posted by <strong>Thaddy</strong>&nbsp;<a href="/forum/thread/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/5025#post_6892780"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border: 0px solid;" /></a><br />
  <br />
  <p>
  Not sure if anyone is interested, but there is a maxed out WA2 up on the 'gon...http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&amp;1288070855&amp;/Woo-Audio-Model-2-class-a-head</p>
  </div>
  </div>
  <br />
  <br />
   <br />
  <br />
  <div class="quote-container">
  <span>Quote:</span>
  <div class="quote-block">
  Originally Posted by <strong>Thaddy</strong>&nbsp;<a href="/forum/thread/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/5025#post_6892780"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border: 0px solid;" /></a><br />
  <br />
  <p>
  Not sure if anyone is interested, but there is a maxed out WA2 up on the 'gon...http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&amp;1288070855&amp;/Woo-Audio-Model-2-class-a-head</p>
  </div>
  </div>
  <br />
  <br />

  That's a nice package (she said with apprehension) ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> guys,
> to be clear  ---  i talked to cesar (che15) about the adapters he just received from glenn.
> and, if i understand this correctly, it's not the diameter of glenn's adapters that's the issue.  it's the height of the bottom portion of the adapter.
> since the sockets on the wa6 are recessed into the amp, the adapter must be both the right diameter AND height to plug fully into the sockets.
> ...


 

 The WA6 socket depth must have changed at some point, because the thin portion of my adapters from Glenn clear the tops of the socket cutouts meaning they would work even if I had the smaller diameter cutout.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Could someone please tell me which NOS RCA 6SN7 tube (style) is shipped with the WA5-LE & WA22? Never got to hear my new 6FD7s with my WA6SE 'cause one tube is DOA.
> 
> Since I'm shopping for 6SN7s, Jack agreed to give me $20 credit toward a matched pair of RCA 6SN7s. But he did not specify which style. For example, tall glass, short or medium; smoked or clear; plates ect..
> 
> I could've sent a follow up message but then, I'd rather see Jack getting all of your goodies shipped in a timely manner.


 

 Purely a guess on my part, but you will probably receive the silver label RCA 6SN7GTB side getter.  They are by far the most common RCA out there and are still very affordable.  I have some..... they sound pleasant but nothing special compared to my more recent 6SN7 buys.  I found the upper middle to upper midrange to be much too warm on them.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The WA6 socket depth must have changed at some point, because the thin portion of my adapters from Glenn clear the tops of the socket cutouts meaning they would work even if I had the smaller diameter cutout.


 

 well, cesar spoke w/ glenn.  and it turns out that glenn may have made this set a tad short.
  or, that cesar's sockets are just set a tad deeper than normal.
  either way, glenn is making cesar another pair. 
   
  glenn is great, man!
  very responsive indeed.
   
  sorry for the (perhaps) false alarm.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





che15 said:


> FYI for older WA6 owner looking to buy 6SN7 tube adapters, make sure that you let the maker know about the size of the small openings where the tubes fit in . They did not fit my amp and I am having to use socket savers under the adapters which I think is taking a lot of the increased audio qualities of the 6SN7s away. Right now they do not sound better than my fat bottle 6FD7 sylvanias and both pair of 6SN7s that I have are used so they should not need much burning.
> I am waiting for Glenn to contact me to see what he can do , I am sure he will do his best to solve the issue , he is very professional and has great costumer service skills.


 

 I received the adapters today and the depth of the adapters are *very *close. I am not feeling a solid mechanical connection when I plug in the adapters. I have emailed Glenn and have asked his opinion.
   

  *Adapter Depth*​*Pin Length*​*Amp Socket Depth*​*Left*​0.553"​0.2"​0.552"​*Right*​0.565"​0.225"​0.568"​
   
  So far I have only 4 hours on the Treasures. The sound bloated and is far worse than my DuMont fat bottle 6FD'7. I know more time is needed to settle in.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





che15 said:


> FYI for older WA6 owner looking to buy 6SN7 tube adapters, make sure that you let the maker know about the size of the small openings where the tubes fit in . They did not fit my amp and I am having to use socket savers under the adapters which I think is taking a lot of the increased audio qualities of the 6SN7s away. Right now they do not sound better than my fat bottle 6FD7 sylvanias and both pair of 6SN7s that I have are used so they should not need much burning.
> I am waiting for Glenn to contact me to see what he can do , I am sure he will do his best to solve the issue , he is very professional and has great costumer service skills.


 
   
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> guys,
> to be clear  ---  i talked to cesar (che15) about the adapters he just received from glenn.
> and, if i understand this correctly, it's not the diameter of glenn's adapters that's the issue.  it's the height of the bottom portion of the adapter.
> since the sockets on the wa6 are recessed into the amp, the adapter must be both the right diameter AND height to plug fully into the sockets.
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The WA6 socket depth must have changed at some point, because the thin portion of my adapters from Glenn clear the tops of the socket cutouts meaning they would work even if I had the smaller diameter cutout.


 
   
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> well, cesar spoke w/ glenn.  and it turns out that glenn may have made this set a tad short.
> or, that cesar's sockets are just set a tad deeper than normal.
> either way, glenn is making cesar another pair.
> 
> ...


 

 When glenn2359 was making my 6SN7 adapters, I gave him the width and depth of the holes in my WA6, which has smaller holes because it was built in August 2007.  My holes were 5/8" deep and 25mm wide measured with a cheap 6" plastic ruler, so too small for wide bottle 6EW7 and others.  Glenn originally said his adapters were 22.5mm wide at the thin portion near the socket, and the thin portion was 1/2" deep before it widened up.  He made me a custom adapter than would go deeper than usual, and it seems to fit and work in my WA6.  It does seem slightly loose like the socket doesn't grab the pins as tightly.  Che bought his after me, and asked for the same adapters.
   
  I found my pair of Sylvania VT-231 tubes buried in the closet tonight and installed them, and with just 10 minutes of warming up the WA6 sounds very very good with my LCD-2.  It seems smoother, more spacious, and gives the LCD-2 just a little more sparkle in the highs than my RCA 6DE7 that I've been using for a year and a half.  I don't have any other pairs of 6SN7 tyoe tubes, just a few singles like one Sylvania "Bad Boy", RCA red base 5692, Hytron brown base 5692, and Tung Sol 6SN7GTB left over from my old DV336i.
   
  I'm leaving the VT-231 installed in the WA6 for now.  After listening for a few days I'll compare them to the old RCA 6DE7 again.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





balderon said:


> I received the adapters today and the depth of the adapters are *very *close. I am not feeling a solid mechanical connection when I plug in the adapters. I have emailed Glenn and have asked his opinion.
> 
> 
> *Adapter Depth*​*Pin Length*​*Amp Socket Depth*​*Left*​0.553"​0.2"​0.552"​*Right*​0.565"​0.225"​0.568"​
> ...


 

 I agree mine don't seem to have a solid feeling mechanical connection in terms of not feeling tight and solid if I wiggle them or pull them out of the amp.  The Woo sockets grab the pins of the RCA 6DE7 tubes more tightly than these adapters.  But, they work well enough that I hope I wont need to do anything about it.
   
  My son has a vernier caliper for some reason that I can measure, but it's difficult to read by flashlight (my wife is asleep in the room with WA6).  But I measured as best I could.  *EDIT - I was not reading the caliper right the first time.  I just fixed the numbers.  *My socket adapters can go in 15 mm deep, and my socket holes are 16 mm deep from the surface of the amp.  (the holes are 24.5 mm wide)  However, the metal contacts inside the socket pin holes are another 2-3 mm below the top of the amp socket.  The adapter pins are 6 mm long.  So when I insert the adapters into the Woo amp, the pins only reach about 2 - 2.5 mm into the metal contacts inside the Woo socket.
   
  It seems to pins on the adapter need to be another 2 -3 mm longer, and/or the skinny part of the adapter needs to allow seating it another 1 mm deeper in the hole.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Purely a guess on my part, but you will probably receive the silver label RCA 6SN7GTB side getter.  They are by far the most common RCA out there and are still very affordable.  I have some..... they sound pleasant but nothing special compared to my more recent 6SN7 buys.  I found the upper middle to upper midrange to be much too warm on them.


 

 Just as I finished reading your reply, almost certain it was 'enthusiasm' I heard tippin' down the hall behind my back. Well then, let's get to the more interesting buys you made recently...


----------



## Xcalibur255

If you want a nice RCA you want the greyglass 6SN7GT VT-231 version from the 40's.  So far I have enjoyed them the most out of the tubes I have purchased.  Not the last word in very many things but they have an involving depth and musicality that makes them highly enjoyable to listen to.  Be prepared to spend anywhere from $50-100 for a NOS pair though.  Also, beware the late 40's tubes whose grey glass coating is partially transparent (i.e. you can see the plates still).  These tubes don't have the magic of the ones from 1942 to 1945 whose coating is solid grey.
   
  We'll see if the Sylvania Bad Boys emerge as my new favorite tube shortly.  For what I paid for them I certainly hope so.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





che15 said:


> FYI for older WA6 owner looking to buy 6SN7 tube adapters, make sure that you let the maker know about the size of the small openings where the tubes fit in . They did not fit my amp and I am having to use socket savers under the adapters which I think is taking a lot of the increased audio qualities of the 6SN7s away. Right now they do not sound better than my fat bottle 6FD7 sylvanias and both pair of 6SN7s that I have are used so they should not need much burning.
> I am waiting for Glenn to contact me to see what he can do , I am sure he will do his best to solve the issue , he is very professional and has great costumer service skills.


 

 Che I made you new adapters tonight the skinny part is19mm be for the pins start this should be good for your amp.
  I'll be shipping them to marrow Wednesday at lunch time so you should have them Thursday or Friday. Let me know
  if they are OK ween you receive them.
  Glenn


----------



## che15

Like I said , great costumer service from Glenn. I guess I had to give some time to these tubes even when they were used. The sound has Improved greatly , just like you guys are describing it. Much more detail, better instrument separation and slight increase in sound stage. I think my sound stage would be much better if I was using a Sophia or EML , but I love my BugleBoy for its amazing Mid range and Treble and its punchi sound. I am using a pair of Tung-sol 6SN7 GT and I also have a pair of Sylvanias GTB from the 50s that I have to do some more listening with.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Che I made you new adapters tonight the skinny part is19mm be for the pins start this should be good for your amp.
> I'll be shipping them to marrow Wednesday at lunch time so you should have them Thursday or Friday. Let me know
> if they are OK ween you receive them.
> Glenn


 

 Hi, I've gone ahead and sent you an email because with my adapters the pins only make it about 2 - 2.5 mm into the metal contacts of the amp's socket, and I don't know if that is enough contact with the 6 mm long pins - the pins can't go their full 6 mm into the holes in the socket.  
   
  See post #5042 and #5043 above from last night.  Thanks!


----------



## Cyberevo

After 9 days waiting, I finally got the adapters made by Glenn.
  I am about to buy one pair of VT-231 out of following candidates to pair with my WA6SE Maxed/HD800, if i want a bigger soundstage, which one of them will you recommend?
   
*Sylvania 6SN7W tall*
   
*Sylvania 6SN7/VT-231*
   
*Tung-Sol 6SN7/VT-231 mouse ears*
   
  Any comment is helpful and highly appreciated.
  Thanks!
  (sorry for the auction links in Chinese, and my lousy English..)


----------



## sillysally

I will sell somebody that lives in USA a pair of ,
  "Hand-pick matched pair
 Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT
 We tested these tubes in an actual amplifier to ensure the highest quality" Jack put stickers on the base for right and left
  Got these tubes from Jack new when I got my WA5LE March 27th 2010 and that is when I started to use them, stopped using them about six weeks later.  There is a one year warranty from Jack but I don't know if it is transferable. SOLD. usd shipped. SOLD , sorry.
  http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa5le.html
   
  Also I have a EML 274B mesh plate I got new from tubesUSA. There is about 150 hours on this tube. SOLD. shipped. usd. SOLD , sorry.
   
  Also a brand new Princess 274B mesh, I did try it in my WA6SE for about 15 min, got it from Jack. SOLD. usd shipped.
   
  Paypal only.


----------



## SpudHarris

SillySally - YGPM re the EML


----------



## che15

Mr Sally I just pm you?


----------



## monsieurguzel

These forums should not be used to sell and promote items on.  That is what the FS forum is for.


----------



## SpudHarris

Deleted....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Hmmm I sent a mail 1st but the EML went elsewhere??


 

 He did said "I will sell somebody that lives in USA"


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


cyberevo said:


> After 9 days waiting, I finally got the adapters made by Glenn.
> I am about to buy one pair of VT-231 out of following candidates to pair with my WA6SE Maxed/HD800, if i want a bigger soundstage, which one of them will you recommend?
> 
> *Sylvania 6SN7W tall*
> ...


 

 I think mouse ears will be you best bet out of those. However, mouse ears are not vt231. The vt231 code was retired in 1945 and mouse ears weren't in production until after 1948. Your English is perfect by the way.


----------



## SpudHarris

No offence ment. Just dissapointed


----------



## jc9394

^^^ Totally understand, if I don't have one myself I will be all over it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Also I have a EML 274B mesh plate I got new from tubesUSA. There is about 150 hours on this tube. $100. shipped. usd. SOLD (i think), sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Paypal only.


 

 I ordered a new one from Jack literally hours before you posted this.  Oh, well.


----------



## Audiogalore

Just ordered my WA6-SE today with the following options:
   
  1) 274B Sophia Princess Rectifier
   
  2) Upgrade tube sockets
   
  3) 6EW7 Driver tubes
   
  4) 48" DC cord
   
  Once I receive it from Jack (Woo audio) and have the opportunity to set it up I will definitely report on thread with pictures and performance of system with my phone collection and sources.
   
  Outside of my K1000 the amp should drive the rest of my hi and lo impedance phones!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> These forums should not be used to sell and promote items on.  That is what the FS forum is for.


 

 Yes you are right, but as you can see these are high end tubes that are for are Woo amps. I just wanted to give to folks I hang out with first chance at getting very nice tubes at a very good price. FYI, I had offers for more money than I was selling these tubes for but turned the offers down.


----------



## Clayton SF

^^^ That was very thoughtful of you to give us Woo family members the first shot at the chance to purchase your nice tubes and Treasures.


----------



## Scooterboy

audiogalore said:


> Just ordered my WA6-SE today with the following options:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






 Sweeeet!!!!!!!


----------



## Thaddy

For those WA3, WA2, and WA22 owners, have you guys ever tried the Tungsol/Chatham 6080?  I had such low expectations for these tubes since they don't seem to get a lot of press, however after warming them up for an hour and giving them a listen...I was blown away.  They seem to reproduce every single note exactly how it was intended, with a touch of warmth in the mid range that results in a very satisfying presentation.
   
  If you like the Tungsol 7236, give these tubes a shot!


----------



## gknix

I'm loving my new WA6se. But from reading some previous comments, Jack sells adaptors to 6SN7 for $35/pair is that true?
  I emailed jack couple days ago , but I have no response. I'm guessing the only way I can get them is by e mailing him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Glenn's adaptors are only for the older WA6 models?


----------



## Clayton SF

>


 
  Quote: 





gknix said:


> I'm loving my new WA6se. But from reading some previous comments, Jack sells adaptors to 6SN7 for $35/pair is that true?
> I emailed jack couple days ago , but I have no response. I'm guessing the only way I can get them is by e mailing him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Glenn's adaptors are only for the older WA6 models?


 
   
  Glenn will make adapters for specific tubes for whichever Woo you own. You just have to tell him what your tube needs are and what your Woo Amp specs are and he'll tell you if he can customize the appropriate adapters. He's is an excellent communicator. I have several adapters made by Glenn for the current WA6 model.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> Quote:
> 
> I think mouse ears will be you best bet out of those. However, mouse ears are not vt231. The vt231 code was retired in 1945 and mouse ears weren't in production until after 1948. Your English is perfect by the way.


 

 The tube dealers in Taiwan always recommend Sylvania (and RCA would be the next one they promote) while several seniors here in this thread highly appreciate Tung-Sol.
  I am totally new to tubes and I can only make decision based on the replies in this forum.
   
  Thanks for your reply and the informative comment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I try to avoid wasting money but it seems the tube rolling is still inevitable to me....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gknix said:


> I'm loving my new WA6se. But from reading some previous comments, Jack sells adaptors to 6SN7 for $35/pair is that true?
> I emailed jack couple days ago , but I have no response. I'm guessing the only way I can get them is by e mailing him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Glenn's adaptors are only for the older WA6 models?


 

 I too, am loving my sexy black < 60 day WA 6 SE. Yesterday, I just received my 6SN7 to 6DE7 adapters from Glenn. However, I'm still shopping for tubes. I found Glenn both through this forum and to be courteous; prompt. When you've the chance, send him a PM.


----------



## Cyberevo

I am glad that I found this forum when I started to build up my headset rigs, and I am also glad that I can read a little English.
  Several of my decisions of procurement were based on the advices here in Headfi.
   
  It is difficult to find useful information and deep reviews in Chinese, especially to certain gears, not to mention many reviews of Hi-Fi are somewhat advertising.
  Not so many experienced seniors willing to share their experiences(or, they just not used to type their comments in any forum on internet like younger generations would do).
  I found that recent players here in Taiwan tend to roll their AMPs rather than rolling tubes to optimize their equipments.
   
  Any way, nice to be a new member of this big family. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I will try to take some pictures of my rigs after I put new 6SN7 on.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





gknix said:


> I'm loving my new WA6se. But from reading some previous comments, Jack sells adaptors to 6SN7 for $35/pair is that true?
> I emailed jack couple days ago , but I have no response. I'm guessing the only way I can get them is by e mailing him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Glenn's adaptors are only for the older WA6 models?


 
   
  Glenn made my first pair of adapters. There is often variance in the depth and diameter of the driver tube cutouts. I recommend measuring the dimensions as accurately as you can and provide that information to Glenn.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have not used 6SN7's in my WA6, so these comments are based on my experience with other amps.
> 
> Some good bang for the buck 6SN7's are the Sylvania 6SN7WGT, the KenRad VT231, and the Tung-Sol tall bottle 6SN7WGT. The KenRad is known as a bass monster, a rep that it only partially deserves IMO, but if you want more bass its a good place to start.
> 
> Or you could just go right to the Tung Sol black glass round plates and skip all the interim steps


 
   
  Dear Skylab:
   
  Did you mean something like this, or this?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> I am glad that I found this forum when I started to build up my headset rigs, and I am also glad that I can read a little English.
> Several of my decisions of procurement were based on the advises here in Headfi.
> 
> It is difficult to find useful information and deep reviews in Chinese, especially to certain gears, not to mention many reviews of Hi-Fi are somewhat advertising.
> ...


 

 And a great family it is! I enjoy looking, listening and aspiring in this thread.Your presence is valued and welcomed. The more knowledge you seek, others learn too. Before long you may be able to organize (or write) the very deep reviews in Mandarin that are now missing on the local audio scene in Taiwan. And we'll have your back!!!
   
  Speaking of Taiwan, Audio & Music... (PM sent)


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And a great family it is! I enjoy looking, listening and aspiring in this thread.Your presence is valued and welcomed. The more knowledge you seek, others learn too. Before long you may be able to organize (or write) the very deep reviews in Mandarin that are now missing on the local audio scene in Taiwan. And we'll have your back!!!
> 
> Speaking of Taiwan, Audio & Music... (PM sent)


 

 PM received and replied, will try to get more information for you.


----------



## dannie01

Hi Cyberevo, welcome to the club.
   
  For the TS 6SN7 GT Round Plate Black Glass, I use these tubes in my WA22 and WA5LE right now and it's really sound terrific.


----------



## Clayton SF

^WoW! I've never really seen a Sophia 300B tube before. I didn't realize those plates were silver. At least they look silver. Beautiful! And I thought that tubes with black plates were all the rage.


----------



## SpudHarris

Is there anyway of telling if these are bad boys just from this photo? I'm told they are......


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^WoW! I've never really seen a Sophia 300B tube before. I didn't realize those plates were silver. At least they look silver. Beautiful! And I thought that tubes with black plates were all the rage.


 


 Yeah, the plates are silver in color and also look shiny but not too glow of light as their rectifier.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Dear Skylab:
> 
> Did you mean something like this, or this?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 The second one, for sure.  The first one, not sure of they are round mica or oval mica, but they are black-glass round-plate, yes.

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Is there anyway of telling if these are bad boys just from this photo? I'm told they are......


 

 That picture is too small to tell, but what you want to look is at the holes in the plates.  Are there two holes, or three?  Bad-boys are generally considered to be only the three-hole.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Is there anyway of telling if these are bad boys just from this photo? I'm told they are......


 
  hmmm....
  too small a photo.
  they're supposed to have three punched holes in the plate, right?


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hi Cyberevo, welcome to the club.
> 
> For the TS 6SN7 GT Round Plate Black Glass, I use these tubes in my WA22 and WA5LE right now and it's really sound terrific.


 

 Hello, Dannie
   
  Thanks for the reply.
   
  I found 2 similar tubes both with Black Glass, but the top Plate are different. One looks round and the other looks more like ellipse. Are they the same quality?
  And, did you even try Tung-sol with mouse ears? how far does it compare to these Black Glass Round Plate?
  I am wondering that should I pay 4 times higher to get this Black Glass?
   
  Regards;
  Ivan.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hi, Skylab
   
  I just ask the same question to Dannie while you replied to me....
  What do you think about the "mouse ears" comparing to this "round plate"?
  The "mouse ears" costs about USD150 here, and the "round plate" cost nearly to USD 500.
  Need your professional advice before I get the 6SN7.
   
  Thanks & regards;
  Ivan.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The second one, for sure.  The first one, not sure of they are round mica or oval mica, but they are black-glass round-plate, yes.


----------



## Skylab

W/r/t the BGRP - "oval mica" versus "round mica".  Some people think the oval mica is slightly better.  I'm not sure there is a sonic difference. 
   
  With regard to the "mouse ears" - I think these are fine, but not even close to the BGRP - in my personal opinion.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Hi Cyberevo, welcome to the club.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 Danny, you are killing me. I guess I have to tell my wife these are cheap light bulb I found on the fleabay.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> W/r/t the BGRP - "oval mica" versus "round mica".  Some people think the oval mica is slightly better.  I'm not sure there is a sonic difference.
> 
> With regard to the "mouse ears" - I think these are fine, but not even close to the BGRP - in my personal opinion.


 

 Thanks Skylab,
   
  So, the first picture one is "oval mica" and the 2nd picture one is "round mica"?
  I can just go get either one of them, right?
   
  Sincerely;
  Ivan.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, and IMO, yes


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hello, Dannie
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Cyberevo, where did you found these beauty?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hello, Dannie
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with Skylab, sometimes the "oval mica" would cost a bit higher. You woun't regret with both.


  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny, you are killing me. I guess I have to tell my wife these are cheap light bulb I found on the fleabay.


 







 I'm wondering to let go the pair of Sophia and fund for a pair of EAT 300B, anyone interested? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Edit: They're on the FS forum now.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Cyberevo, where did you found these beauty?


 

 John, are you itching for a pair?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> John, are you itching for a pair?


 

 It is all your fault, looking at the expensive old "light bulb" even before I get the amp.  J/K 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Yeah, I may just get a pair and get it over with.  I checked the fleabay site you sent me earlier, he did not have any listed.  I may email him if he has any.  How is the big day last night?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is all your fault, looking at the expensive old "light bulb" even before I get the amp.  J/K
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hehe...... it's all my fault, my bad, btw, it'll go by tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For the "old light bulb", you need to check with him via PM or email. We have a very nice dinner and do some shopping in the day time, another bleeding day.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hehe...... it's all my fault, my bad, btw, it'll go by tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm sure it is all worth it.  Now how many "old light bulbs" today?


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, and IMO, yes


 

     Quote:


dannie01 said:


> I agree with Skylab, sometimes the "oval mica" would cost a bit higher. You woun't regret with both.


 
   
  Thank you both!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Cyberevo, where did you found these beauty?


 
   
  I am in Taiwan and these pairs were found here on auction.
  It is very difficult for me to find 6DE7/6FD7/6EW7.....here , but many 6SN7 are available, that is also why I go for Glenn's adapter.
  Hopefully this information helps you.


----------



## SpudHarris

Could anyone point me in the right direction of Tung-Sol 6F8G's? I've struck out until now but as you guys have been doing this a long time I thought you may be able to give me the names of places to look....
   
  Any help would be appreciated 
   
  Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

Go to:
  http://www.electrontube.com/
   
  And email Alex (the owner).  It's been my experience that he has a lot more in stock than the website says.  He might have your tube.  He's the one who sold me my rare Tung-Sol power triode.
   

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Could anyone point me in the right direction of Tung-Sol 6F8G's? I've struck out until now but as you guys have been doing this a long time I thought you may be able to give me the names of places to look....
> 
> Any help would be appreciated
> 
> Thanks


----------



## SpudHarris

You are a star. I'll give him a go.


----------



## Thaddy

A few pictures of my WA2 equipped with some Chatham 6AS7G's and Sylvania 6DJ8's...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Quote:
> 
> Thank you both!!
> 
> ...


 

 How much did they go for? And can you provide a link to the auction site? Still shopping and would like to have a look...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> W/r/t the BGRP - "oval mica" versus "round mica".  Some people think the oval mica is slightly better.  I'm not sure there is a sonic difference.
> 
> With regard to the "mouse ears" - I think these are fine, but not even close to the BGRP - in my personal opinion.


 

 My understanding is the round mica version is the oldest (pre 1942) and way more rare, but there is not supposed to be any difference sonically.  One of the nicest things about the round plate is the relative consensus that they all sound the same regardless of the year which makes hunting slightly less stressful.


----------



## monsieurguzel

I'm not sure that makes sense since I have a pair of Tung Sol 6F8G tubes, which are meant to be the predecessors to the TS 6SN7GT that I also have....and they both have the exact same oval mica on top.  But as everybody says, I don't believe there is an actual difference.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My understanding is the round mica version is the oldest (pre 1942) and way more rare, but there is not supposed to be any difference sonically.  One of the nicest things about the round plate is the relative consensus that they all sound the same regardless of the year which makes hunting slightly less stressful.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I may be wrong, that is just the information I read.  You can find oval mica versions right up to 1948 when the roundplate was discontinued so it made sense to me.


----------



## hodgjy

Nice looking amp.  And I also love how the Chathams look.  They look so neat with the silver trim on the plates.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> A few pictures of my WA2 equipped with some Chatham 6AS7G's and Sylvania 6DJ8's...


----------



## Thaddy

They have  a clear bottle too, so at night the tube glow shines juuuust a bit more.


----------



## SpudHarris

Just pulled the trigger on these - Someone please tell me they are good tubes........
   

   
  [size=large]*One MATCHED  PAIR of*[/size]
  [size=large]* *[/size][size=large]  [/size]
  [size=x-large] VT99  / 6F8G [/size][size=large]TUBES[/size]
   
   
  [size=large]NEW OLD STOCK - [/size]
   
  [size=xx-large]1942[/size]
   
  [size=medium]* ...U. S.  ARMY SIGNAL CORPS...*[/size]
  [size=medium] [/size]
  [size=medium] *SYLVANIA* made in USA, *BLACK PLATES* military tubes[/size]


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of those, and yes they are nice tubes


----------



## SpudHarris

Well they cost me half what the Treasures cost so I'm hoping they turn out to be a bargain. Just got to speak to Glenn now about the adapters....


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How much did they go for? And can you provide a link to the auction site? Still shopping and would like to have a look...


 

 Hello, SilentOne
   
  We have 2 major auction sites here : Yahoo and Ruten. (eBay tried, but failed and disappeared)
  Here is the 6SN7 if you are interested in.
  We also have several tube sellers who have their own websites, but, i am still looking for more.
   
  I am not sure about the conditions where you live, but be careful, there are a lot of frauds on both auction sites.


----------



## jc9394

Not sure how these sound but it does look great and expensive.


----------



## Thaddy

Wow, and I thought my RCA Blackplate 6AS7G's from 1953 were old!


----------



## jc9394

And the crazy things is matched pair NOS.


----------



## Skylab

I like them but they are pretty pricey - same pricing as the Tung-Sol BGRP, which I prefer.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not sure how these sound but it does look great and expensive.


 

 Hi, jc9394
   
  It looks like you also noticed this pairs on Ruten 
   
*[size=11.0pt]Sylvania 6SN7W / 6SN7 Metal bottom[/size]*
   
  They are the most expensive 6SN7 here, but the dealer of it told me (yes, i did think about getting them...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) that actually the sound is not much different comparing to more affordable Sylvania VT-231 with White or Green label.
   
[size=11.0pt]Sylvania 6SN7 GT/ VT-231[/size]
   
  For your reference..


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi, jc9394
> 
> It looks like you also noticed this pairs on Ruten
> 
> ...


 
   
   
This is what I actually want but not sure will the seller ship to US.  The price is a little high too.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hi, jc9394
   
  There are 2 dealers on Ruten have Tung-sol BGRP, one is "oval mica" costs NTD14,000 and one is "round mica" costs NTD16,000 (the one you want).
  I am still considering and probably will make the decision next week after I call them personally.
   
  Both dealers are a bit older and I am not sure if they can speak English well, you may just send them mails first.
   
*osn7wgt@yahoo.com.tw *
   
*ayu65228@hotmail.com*


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi, jc9394
> 
> There are 2 dealers on Ruten have Tung-sol BGRP, one is "oval mica" costs NTD14,000 and one is "round mica" costs NTD16,000 (the one you want).
> I am still considering and probably will make the decision next week after I call them personally.
> ...


 

 Yeah, I will do that.  Too bad I don't speak Taiwanese.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yeah, I will do that.  Too bad I don't speak Taiwanese.


 

 Hi, jc9394
   
  My lovely girl friend just found a website in US also have Tung-sol BGRP, price is similar.
  It should be more convenient to you.
  Please check it.
   
http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm
   
  Sincerely;
  Ivan.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi, jc9394
> 
> There are 2 dealers on Ruten have Tung-sol BGRP, one is "oval mica" costs NTD14,000 and one is "round mica" costs NTD16,000 (the one you want).
> I am still considering and probably will make the decision next week after I call them personally.
> ...


 

      Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Yeah, I will do that.  Too bad I don't speak Taiwanese.


 


 John & Ivan, I have deal with that seller from Yahoo Taiwan and he's a nice gentleman. And John, he ship worldwide but you need to contact him (that would be great if you can write him in Chinese, no Taiwanese is necessary 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) via email and have the shipping quote.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi, jc9394
> 
> My lovely girl friend just found a website in US also have Tung-sol BGRP, price is similar.
> It should be more convenient to you.
> ...


 

 She is a keeper.  My wife will never do this...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> John & Ivan, I have deal with that seller from Yahoo Taiwan and he's a nice gentleman. And John, he ship worldwide but you need to contact him (that would be great if you can write him in Chinese, no Taiwanese is necessary
> ...


 

 LMAO, you are too funny.  I totally forgot Taiwanese and Chinese is the same in writing but wait I can't write Chinese either.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> LMAO, you are too funny.  I totally forgot Taiwanese and Chinese is the same in writing but wait I can't write Chinese either.


 






 PM me if you need an interpreter.


----------



## jc9394

I think I'm good, he replied my email already.  Shipping to US is fine but that 4% paypal add on is a killer.  I'm going to try the place in US first.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I'm good, he replied my email already.  Shipping to US is fine but that 4% paypal add on is a killer.  I'm going to try the place in US first.


 


 Great and agree that 4% Paypal charge is always a burden.


----------



## Cyberevo

Dear Dannie:
   
  Do you know why dealers always recommend Sylvania(or RCA) over Tung-sol?
  Both dealers tried to convince me Sylvania is better, and one of them said Tung-sol is good for speaker system, not good for headset.
   
  Sincerely;
  Ivan.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hi John:
   
  My lovely girl friend just found another Tung-sol BGRP, which is cheaper. (USD375)
   
http://www.tubeseller.com/product_info.php/cPath/22/products_id/62
   
  or, Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, USD345
   
http://www.tubeseller.com/product_info.php/cPath/24/products_id/41
   
  Ivan.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Dear Dannie:
> 
> Do you know why dealers always recommend Sylvania(or RCA) over Tung-sol?
> Both dealers tried to convince me Sylvania is better, and one of them said Tung-sol is good for speaker system, not good for headset.
> ...


 

 Sorry Ivan. I have no idea about that but was thinking the Sylvania is more slow moving than the TS with the price difference is not that big, also the TS is always a good pick. BTW, I don't own any Sylvania 6SN7 so I dunno if it's a good combo with headset.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi John:
> 
> My lovely girl friend just found another Tung-sol BGRP, which is cheaper. (USD375)
> 
> ...


 







 You will be the next DEVIL to John in "old light bulb".


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Sorry Ivan. I have no idea about that but was thinking the Sylvania is more slow moving than the TS with the price difference is not that big, also the TS is always a good pick. BTW, I don't own any Sylvania 6SN7 so I dunno if it's a good combo with headset.


 
   
  Thanks, Dannie.
   
  I suppose the dealer tried to emphasize that TS is too neutral, detailed and a bit dry which is not good to hear in "short distance", and Sylvania is more lush and beautiful in midrange and treble(colored) which pleases most of people, and good soundstage.
   
  I try to seek and keep only one pair for my WA6SE, but I can't afford Sylvania 6SN7W and TS BGRP at the same time to compare them, which makes me very difficult to make decision based on what dealer says.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You will be the next DEVIL to John in "old light bulb".


 

 Yeah, he is.  All I know is not set my feet in Asia anytime soon.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You will be the next DEVIL to John in "old light bulb".


 

 WHAT! We've gone from New Treasures to Old Light Bulbs? Cool! I mean HOT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How do you store your light bulbs? On shelves or in shoe boxes away from pets and kids?


----------



## jc9394

This guy may be my friend if he can get me a match pair.  He has over 10.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400136538369&rvr_id=134096499414&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=%3F*F%3F&GUID=d3163ffa12a0a0e204b50615feb5321e&itemid=400136538369&ff4=263602_263622


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You will be the next DEVIL to John in "old light bulb".


 

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yeah, he is.  All I know is not set my feet in Asia anytime soon.


 

 Well, it is good to have a girl friend who doesn't stop you buying things, however, she also "empty" your pocket rapidly as well....


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yeah, he is.  All I know is not set my feet in Asia anytime soon.


 


 No worry, you don't have to set your feet in Asia because internet is almost the biggest media of consumer market that you can make a purchase anytime, anywhere. Also, there's always DEVIL surounding you unless you can walk away and never turn on your PC..........................we're always there to help you to spend your money.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> WHAT! We've gone from New Treasures to Old Light Bulbs? Cool! I mean HOT!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Shoe boxes.  I'm sure Dannie have some LV bagboxes to store those Old Light Bulbs...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No worry, you don't have to set your feet in Asia because internet is almost the biggest media of consumer market that you can make a purchase anytime, anywhere. Also, there's always DEVIL surounding you unless you can walk away and never turn on your PC..........................we're always there to help you to spend your money.


 
   
  Yeah, the "Sorry for your wallet" is so true.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> This guy may be my friend if he can get me a match pair.  He has over 10.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400136538369&rvr_id=134096499414&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=%3F*F%3F&GUID=d3163ffa12a0a0e204b50615feb5321e&itemid=400136538369&ff4=263602_263622


 

 Wow, nice price. I must ask someone to contact this dealer for me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edited:  it is USD 199 for one, not 1 pair.......


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> This guy may be my friend if he can get me a match pair.  He has over 10.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400136538369&rvr_id=134096499414&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=%3F*F%3F&GUID=d3163ffa12a0a0e204b50615feb5321e&itemid=400136538369&ff4=263602_263622


 


 [size=large]Did you aware -[/size] [size=large]"[/size][size=large]This Auction Is For (1) Tung Sol CTL 6SN7GT ". That's mean $399.9/pair plus shipping.[/size]


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Shoe boxes.  I'm sure Dannie have some LV bagboxes to store those Old Light Bulbs...


 
   
  I store them in a seal locked plastic lunch box.


----------



## jc9394

I know, it seems like $400/pair is the going price now.  Plus free shipping in US and no paypal fee.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know, it seems like $400/pair is the going price now.  Plus free shipping in US and no paypal fee.


 


 Great.


----------



## Cyberevo

Dear pros,
   
  Beside TubeUSA, do you know where can I find EML 274B Mesh?
   
  Thanks,
  Ivan.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Dear pros,
> 
> Beside TubeUSA, do you know where can I find EML 274B Mesh?
> 
> ...


 


Jac Music. They ship international, just bought a pair of EML 5U4G mesh plate from them.


----------



## jc9394

Ivan, you are better off getting EML 5U5G instead of 274 mesh.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Jac Music. They ship international, just bought a pair of EML 5U4G mesh plate from them.


 

 Thanks, Dannie. 
  Will have a look.

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ivan, you are better off getting EML 5U5G instead of 274 mesh.


 
  Dear John,

 Do you mean EML 5U4G?  and do you mean it is better than 274B for my WA6SE Maxed?
   
  Thanks,


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Dear John,
> 
> Do you mean EML 5U4G?  and do you mean it is better than 274B for my WA6SE Maxed?
> 
> Thanks,


 

 Yes, sorry for typo.  Check out this thread.  I have both 274B and 5U4G from EML (both mesh), Sophia 274B mesh and metal base Mullard GZ34 for my WA6, ever since I got the EML 5U4G mesh, it never leaves the amp.  In fact I just got another one for spare.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, sorry for typo.  Check out this thread.  I have both 274B and 5U4G from EML (both mesh), Sophia 274B mesh and metal base Mullard GZ34 for my WA6, ever since I got the EML 5U4G mesh, it never leaves the amp.  In fact I just got another one for spare.


 

 Thanks, John.
  It is clear to me now.


----------



## SpudHarris

Blummin' Typical!
   
  I bought these because I couldn't get Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate 6F8G's......then got a mail from a recommended company I e-mailed yesterday saying he has a matched pair if I want them. So I've bought both and wonder if they will sound much different? It's always good to have a back up of the ones you like anyway (well that's what I keep telling myself haha)
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Just pulled the trigger on these - Someone please tell me they are good tubes........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Was it Alex who came through for you?
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> ....then got a mail from a recommended company I e-mailed yesterday saying he has a matched pair if I want them.


----------



## SpudHarris

No unfortunately all the recommendations struck out, bar a late one last night from MusicMan for vacuumtubes.net and I hooked their last pair.
   
  Thanks to all who threw the rec's over though, it was appreciated. Although I struck out on those specific tubes I picked up some valueable contacts for possible future purchases so it was cool.


----------



## hodgjy

Those guys do have a mountain of tubes, that's for sure.
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> vacuumtubes.net


----------



## iRRegular

Hello guys, I apologize in advance for my possible ignorance, but I tried to research on my own as much as I could. But I still desperately need your opinion. The thing is that I'm buying a headphone amp for my Beyer DT880 and I think Woo amps are a very solid choice for me. I am currently thinking about WA6 or even WA6 SE / WA2. It may seem a bit of an overkill for a DT880s, but I'd like to get a good amp, which will be able to drive some HD 800s or Beyer T1s in future upgrades of my system. The thing is that I'm capable of buying WA6 SE / WA2 with my budget, but I won't have much money left for any possible upgrades or modifications for amp, such as Premium Parts upgrade (I really need advice on this one, is it worth it?) or more expensive tube replacements. I also noticed that WA6 SE and WA2 are priced exactly the same, so any explanation of which is better would be mostly appreciated. So I'm in need of suggestions / opinions about my described problems with deciding, I greatly appreciate your opinion, as I lack any kind of experience with tube amps. Thanks in advance!


----------



## TheWuss

a new head-fier.  and your first post is in the woo forum?
  welcome, my friend.
  man, you're off to a good start.  if i must say so myself.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  i wish i could help you with the amp selection.  but, i only have heard the WA6.
   
  i will say this, though.  all your potential cans are high impedance.
  so maybe the OTL WA2 is a good option.  even if you can't upgrade caps, etc., it's still supposed to be a stellar amp.


----------



## jc9394

I will recommend WA6SE instead of WA2, just incase you want to try out some low impedance phones in the future.


----------



## balderon

I am becoming a little discouraged with the Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures. I am close to 25 hours and the sound is not what I hoped for. There has been dramatic improvements since first powered but the mid-range and highs are suppressed as compared to the 6FD7 fat bottles. I know more time is needed to settle in and have not completely given up but I must confess I have my eyes on a pair of TungSol black, round plates.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





balderon said:


> I am becoming a little discouraged with the Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures. I am close to 25 hours and the sound is not what I hoped for. There has been dramatic improvements since first powered but the mid-range and highs are suppressed as compared to the 6FD7 fat bottles. I know more time is needed to settle in and have not completely given up but I must confess I have my eyes on a pair of TungSol black, round plates.


 
   
  That is not encouraging, my CV181-Z is schedule to be delivered on or before next Tuesday. I read somewhere that is requires approx 300 hours to mature the tubes. Guess that 25 hours ain't enough, do report once it reaches 50 hours. Keen to know the outcome while waiting for mine.


----------



## SpudHarris

Don't panic guys, I have about 45-55 hours on mine and I think they are just superb in my WA6 and a world away from when they first got here. I have other tubes including some nice Sylvania Chrome Top 6SN7's and the Fat Bottle 6FD7's mentioned and neither come close. I have swapped them out a few times but always find there is something missing with other tubes, they are magical. That might change once the TS Black Glass Round Plate 6F8G's get here......


----------



## hodgjy

I've had tubes that have taken more than 50 hours to really open up and mature into their sound.  Give your Treasures some more time before making your final assessment.  They might just need a lot of time to burn in, especially since their glass is lined with carbon, which may also need some seasoning, too.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





balderon said:


> I am becoming a little discouraged with the Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures. I am close to 25 hours and the sound is not what I hoped for. There has been dramatic improvements since first powered but the mid-range and highs are suppressed as compared to the 6FD7 fat bottles. I know more time is needed to settle in and have not completely given up but I must confess I have my eyes on a pair of TungSol black, round plates.


 

 I'm afraid I never really liked them as much as I wanted/needed to, either.  They are good enough sounding, but I preferred almost all of my NOS tubes, even some of the pretty inexpensive ones.  And these are nothing at all like real CV181's, I can assure you.


----------



## jax

Folks using the CV181-Z Black Treasures in their Modwright Transporters have reported pretty dramatic fluctuations in performance in the break-in period of the first few hundred hours.  It remains a favored tube in that application overall, but there have been those who've become disenchanted and moved on/back to NOS.  Obviously the MWTP is is a different application...so, FWIW.  I've yet to try my black treasures in my WA6SE.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm afraid I never really liked them as much as I wanted/needed to, either.  They are good enough sounding, but I preferred almost all of my NOS tubes, even some of the pretty inexpensive ones.  And these are nothing at all like real CV181's, I can assure you.


 

 Maybe one of these days I'll get a pair of Mullards to try out... They are certainly a bit pricey.


----------



## takezo

for those of you still searching for roundplate tungsols or national union 6f8g tubes, try dale
  at vacuumtubes.net. they still have about 4 or 5 pairs of roundplates rebranded. i believe they
  are all rebranded tungsol roundplate types. the national union roundplates are differenct in structure
  and seem to be rare.
   
  best news is that they are about $20 each. the regular flat blackplates are $10 each NOS.
  better prices and more reliable than epay, imo.
   
  ( i have no affiliation nor vested interest in the company. just trying to help fellow head-fiers find good tubes at reasonable prices)


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Don't panic guys, I have about 45-55 hours on mine and I think they are just superb in my WA6 and a world away from when they first got here. I have other tubes including some nice Sylvania Chrome Top 6SN7's and the Fat Bottle 6FD7's mentioned and neither come close. I have swapped them out a few times but always find there is something missing with other tubes, they are magical. That might change once the TS Black Glass Round Plate 6F8G's get here......


 
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've had tubes that have taken more than 50 hours to really open up and mature into their sound.  Give your Treasures some more time before making your final assessment.  They might just need a lot of time to burn in, especially since their glass is lined with carbon, which may also need some seasoning, too.


 
  Quote: 





jax said:


> Folks using the CV181-Z Black Treasures in their Modwright Transporters have reported pretty dramatic fluctuations in performance in the break-in period of the first few hundred hours.  It remains a favored tube in that application overall, but there have been those who've become disenchanted and moved on/back to NOS.  Obviously the MWTP is is a different application...so, FWIW.  I've yet to try my black treasures in my WA6SE.


 
   
  Thanks all for the feedback. I am continuing the burn-in and I am looking forward to hear more forthcoming improvements before the the recommended 300+ hours.


----------



## hodgjy

I think I finally got my setup singing the way I want it.  I started out with the Woo 3, a sort of inexpensive Teac CD player, and Beyer DT880/250s.  It was certainly a good little setup.  Surely, it was leagues better than what I been using most of my life.
   
  But, over the course of the last few weeks, I swapped out my cans and CD player.  I got the DT990/600s and the Onkyo C-S5VL.  Got the cans, listened to them for a few weeks.  Then, got the new CD deck.  Getting that at different times allowed me to assess each piece's role in my whole system.
   
  All I can say now is, "Wow."  The music is much more engaging.  It feels more alive.  I hate the term, "PRaT," but this setup now has a lot more of it.  Also, the music is a lot more smooth.  It sounds very analog.  Before, even with my tube amp, my source left a lot of the digital graininess in the music.  This new setup is very smooth, yet highly engaging and alive.  Also, it is completely non-fatiguing.  I am very excited about these swaps I made.
   
  I did a mini-review of my new CD deck if anyone is interested in reading that as well:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/510777/my-mini-review-of-the-onkyo-c-s5vl-sacd-player#post_6903741


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> This guy may be my friend if he can get me a match pair.  He has over 10.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400136538369&rvr_id=134096499414&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=%3F*F%3F&GUID=d3163ffa12a0a0e204b50615feb5321e&itemid=400136538369&ff4=263602_263622


 

 I contacted this seller a while ago and he told me the entire lot of 100 all had matching date codes and were well matched.  So basically you just order a quantity of two and you will be getting a matched pair more or less.  He also told me he would re-test with exact readings to ensure matching before sending pairs out.  I ended up talking myself out of it (just cannot afford it right now), but this really seems like the safest deal going for TSRs right now.  I wouldn't want to get burned on a $400 pair of tubes so treading carefully is a good idea.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





takezo said:


> for those of you still searching for roundplate tungsols or national union 6f8g tubes, try dale
> at vacuumtubes.net. they still have about 4 or 5 pairs of roundplates rebranded. i believe they
> are all rebranded tungsol roundplate types. the national union roundplates are differenct in structure
> and seem to be rare.
> ...


 

 Hmmmm.... Dale sold me what he said was his last set of Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates yesterday. $84 + $12 Carriage. Seems like I have been ripped off big time.
   
  I will be sending dale an e-mail shortly!


----------



## hodgjy

If that is indeed true, that is just more evidence why I don't like dealing with those guys.  Their prices change constantly for no reason according to their mood and their communication isn't very straight forward.  Every time I've ordered a tube from their webpage, I get an email from them saying they now have a new higher price. 
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Hmmmm.... Dale sold me what he said was his last set of Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates yesterday. $84 + $12 Carriage. Seems like I have been ripped off big time.
> 
> I will be sending dale an e-mail shortly!


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If that is indeed true, that is just more evidence why I don't like dealing with those guys.  Their prices change constantly for no reason according to their mood and their communication isn't very straight forward.  Every time I've ordered a tube from their webpage, I get an email from them saying they now have a new higher price.


 
   
  My first experience with them.
   
  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have found those tubes but as for paying more than twice what everyone else pays that's a different story and I'd sure like to know why.... Dale told me they were the last pair, MusicMan59 hooked me up as he had just bought a pair the same. I wonder if we are all talking about the same tubes?
   
  I specifically asked for ''Black Glass Tung-Sol Round Plate 6F8G's''
   
  I ordered some Sylvania Black Glass 6F8G's from Buenosaires Radio and he tells me he has many of the same....


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> My first experience with them.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have found those tubes but as for paying more than twice what everyone else pays that's a different story and I'd sure like to know why.... Dale told me they were the last pair, MusicMan59 hooked me up as he had just bought a pair the same. I wonder if we are all talking about the same tubes?
> 
> ...


 
   
  please read my post again. i didn't state they were definitely tungsol roundplate 6f8g. i stated i believed they were rebranded tungsols,
  meaning they had other brand names like sylvania, ge or raytheon.  if you were specific in asking for " black glass tungsol round plate"
  these rebranded tubes may not have fit the bill. there are roundplates without the black glass and it's possible they may not
  even be  tungsol; i can't and will not guarantee it unless i have them in my hands to compare with my stash. others like national
  union made roundplate 6f8g as well.
   
  $84 for a pair of tungol roundplate 6f8g is very good price actually, now that i think of it. if you check on epay completed auctions,
  you'd see a rebranded pair of roundplates go for $97 recently as a week ago. some swear by name brand NOS but rebrands are just
  as good imo. it's just that not many people know about them, so they don't trust sellers telling them that it's the same as the name brand,
  hence the lower prices. (well, except on epay...)
   
  ps: there's now another pair on epay branded as ken-rads that seem to be roundplates. the seller doesn't seem to indicate that they
  are roundplates but the pics tell the story.


----------



## Skylab

Rebrands are just as good as long as the tubes are really identical.  I've seen some things sold as "roundplates" that are simply not the Tung-Sol round-plates.


----------



## che15

What do you guys think about those Ken rad round plates on eBay , I had contacted the seller to see if they are a match pair.


----------



## Audiogalore

Which tube is more preferred with 6SE, the EML or the Sophia.


----------



## DarKu

I have both now in my hands, EML hands down is the Best rectifier i've tried, the bass response, the dynamics, air between the notes and the soundstage is just awesome ! Sophia is somewhat bright in comparison, bass is weaker and dynamics are also weaker


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Guess I'll have to try the EML someday.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I should have mine in my hands tomorrow.  Was planning to do a writeup on them and the Sylvania Bad Boys at some point.


----------



## SpudHarris

Where is the best place at the moment to get the EML 274B? I would dearly love one for my WA6......


----------



## Xcalibur255

I got mine from Jack directly.  Just drop him an email.


----------



## SpudHarris

These came today and my initial impressions are that they sound pretty much better than anything I've tried so far, even on par if not better than the Treasures (confirm this after more listening). I didn't pay a lot for them so am blown away, are they anything special? a golden nugget picked up by accident maybe?
   
  This is the stock photo......


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





darku said:


> I have both now in my hands, EML hands down is the Best rectifier i've tried, the bass response, the dynamics, air between the notes and the soundstage is just awesome ! Sophia is somewhat bright in comparison, bass is weaker and dynamics are also weaker


 


 X 2

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I should have mine in my hands tomorrow.  Was planning to do a writeup on them and the Sylvania Bad Boys at some point.


 

 You also can order from Jac Music, they offer 30 days and 1 year warranty as option.


----------



## Zombie_X

Guys I saw some 6SN7 to 6N1P adapters on ebay. Do you think the 6NS7 will work on my WA3+? I know I'll have to build a tube extender for the adapter as the adapter is most likley too big for the tube input on my amp.
   
  I currently use 6N1P tubes on the WA3+ and they are fully functional.


----------



## hodgjy

The 6N1P is not a direct replacement for 6DJ8/6922, so I would be very doubtful.  Perhaps email Jack Wu and get his take, but personally, I wouldn't risk my amp on that one.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Guys I saw some 6SN7 to 6N1P adapters on ebay. Do you think the 6NS7 will work on my WA3+? I know I'll have to build a tube extender for the adapter as the adapter is most likley too big for the tube input on my amp.
> 
> I currently use 6N1P tubes on the WA3+ and they are fully functional.


----------



## Zombie_X

It's not a direct replacement? I see lots of sites saying it's a direct replacement, even the seller on ebay said it was.
   
  Hrm... this doesn't make me feel good at all..


----------



## hodgjy

The 6N1P is most definitely not a direct replacement.  It is often labeled so by sellers not knowing any better because it often works in circuits designed for the 6DJ8/6922.  However, the 6N1P has twice the filament current than the 6DJ8.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> It's not a direct replacement? I see lots of sites saying it's a direct replacement, even the seller on ebay said it was.
> 
> Hrm... this doesn't make me feel good at all..


----------



## Zombie_X

I knew about the extra current heat already, but the seller on ebay said my amp should be able fine with the tube. 
   
  Man not fun at all... Should I request a refund?
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The 6N1P is most definitely not a direct replacement.  It is often labeled so by sellers not knowing any better because it often works in circuits designed for the 6DJ8/6922.  However, the 6N1P has twice the filament current than the 6DJ8.


----------



## hodgjy

That's up to you.  If you feel like you were mislead and won't ever use the tube again, then probably.  However, if you are going to keep using the tube because you're ok with extra current draw, then probably not.
   
  The confusion with the 6N1P is that the 6N11 is more closely related to the 6DJ8.  But, lots of sellers don't know what they're doing or are intentionally misleading people just to make a sale.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I knew about the extra current heat already, but the seller on ebay said my amp should be able fine with the tube.
> 
> Man not fun at all... Should I request a refund?


----------



## Zombie_X

I think I'll return all four tubes to the seller.. but he's in Russia


----------



## hodgjy

The post to get them back to the motherland might be too expensive.  Maybe just list them in the F/S forum or keep them as souvenirs. 
   
  Before doing anything, perhaps ask Jack Wu if the W3 can handle the extra load of these tubes.  It may.  Nonetheless, it's not a direct replacement even if it does work.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I think I'll return all four tubes to the seller.. but he's in Russia


----------



## Clayton SF

I found this on a search:
   
  Quote:


			
				Gvvt said:
			
		

> There's a discussion over on Tube Asylum about a couple of Russian 6922 equivalents - the 6N1P and the 6N23P. The 1P is extraordinarily cheap, and many folks speak very highly of it. It is not as directly compatible as the 23P, but I wrote to *Jack and he says the 1P is a direct replacement for the 6922 / 6DJ8 in the WA2*.
> 
> The one *caveat is to make sure to get the "EV" version* of whichever tube you want.
> 
> ...


 

 I sounds like Jack says it's okay for the 6N1P in the WA2--however; I don't know about the WA3+.


----------



## hodgjy

The 6N23P is pretty close to the 6DJ8.  The 6N11 is the most direct replacement.  The 6N1P is a different beast, but does work in many circuits designed around the 6DJ8.  I'd email Jack directly to get his take.


----------



## Zombie_X

I e-mailed him earlier so hopefully he'll say yes it's compatible.


----------



## hodgjy

Please post here what he says.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I e-mailed him earlier so hopefully he'll say yes it's compatible.


----------



## Zombie_X

I will


----------



## Zombie_X

UPDATE:
  Jack said the WA3+ can use 6N1P tube no problem!!


----------



## gknix

how's the cv-181 coming for those shuguang treasures after further burn-in


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2
> 
> 
> 
> You also can order from Jac Music, they offer 30 days and 1 year warranty as option.


 

 Which EML rectifier are you and Darku referring to: Mesh, Solid, 274B or 5U4G? Monday night, I was all set to put my wallet away for the month of September. And I did. Hid it real good! Until I realized I needed milk from the goodie store to start the week... and FORGOT to remove my driver's license. Upon my return, I checked email, logged on to read 'Woo Audio Owner Unite' and well... you know how these attempts end! 
   
  Many of you here are just bad influences - with posts that reads so good, so right!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Which EML rectifier are you and Darku referring to: Mesh, Solid, 274B or 5U4G? Monday night, I was all set to put my wallet away for the month of September. And I did. Hid it real good! Until I realized I needed milk from the goodie store to start the week... and FORGOT to remove my driver's license. Upon my return, I checked email, logged on to read 'Woo Audio Owner Unite' and well... you know how these attempts end!
> 
> Many of you here are just bad influences - with posts that reads so good, so right!


 

 There is nowhere to hide your wallet as I've mentioned somewhere here unless you hide yourself or don't access to internet and HeadFi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  BTW, the rectifiers I use are EML 5U4G Mesh Plate.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I received a bad pair od SG CV181-Z on Monday. Return to seller for refund.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> There is nowhere to hide your wallet as I've mentioned somewhere here unless you hide yourself or don't access to internet and HeadFi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You referring to my last message to stay away as far as possible to you all???


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I received a bad pair od SG CV181-Z on Monday. Return to seller for refund.


 

 WOW, both of them are bad?  Sorry to hear that.  My pair should arrive soon.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WOW, both of them are bad?  Sorry to hear that.  My pair should arrive soon.


 

 One of them is bad so I returned the pair.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> One of them is bad so I returned the pair.


 

 It make sense as you brought a matched pair.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I received a bad pair od SG CV181-Z on Monday. Return to seller for refund.


 
   
  One tube in my matched pair was DOA also. Seller replaced them though and second set was fine. Seller said it was unusual to have a fault.
   
  Anyhow mine are back in my WA6 as the Green Label Sylvanias I bought are just too bright to listen to for long periods. For short term monitering they would be superb because the level of detail is astonishing, for fun listening though I'm afraid they suck! So for me until the TS BG Round Plates get here the Treasures are still the ones to beat....


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You referring to my last message to stay away as far as possible to you all???


 


 I mean we have to stay away from HeadFi.


----------



## hodgjy

That is so true.  I used to be happy with cheap and crappy gear, and not to mention I had more money in my pocket, too.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I mean we have to stay away from HeadFi.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I used to be happy with cheap and crappy gear, and not to mention I had more money in my pocket, too.


 


 This is so true, too. I cannot agree more.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> This is so true, too. I cannot agree more.


 
   
  Yes, it is.  My wallet hates me...


  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That is so true.  I used to be happy with cheap and crappy gear, and not to mention I had more money in my pocket, too.


 

 What money, my wallet is always empty after I joined.  (Actually, I was really good before. Joined HF in 2006 gets my advice and stay away for 2 years, comes back for more advice as I wants to try tube and here I'm)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That is so true.  I used to be happy with cheap and crappy gear, and not to mention I had more money in my pocket, too.


 

 A year ago I was happy with no gear at all. I didn't even know what a Woo was until I bought my first tube amp and realized that it didn't have a headphone jack so I did a few quick Google searches and looked a images and came across a cute headphone amp. Upon zooming in on the face plate I notice the name WOOAUDIO. At first I thought Whoa Audio. As in "Whoa, that's cool looking." The rest is history. And history for my wallet as well. But I'm all happy.


----------



## SpudHarris

And yet we keep ploughing money into this hobby like there is no tomorrow...... My 6F8G Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates left Radio Electric Supply (Vacuumetubes.net) today 
   
  My next significant purchase for my WA6 I suspect will be the EML5U4G Mesh Plate, I already have my Pro-forma Invoice from Jac Van de Walle but I keep looking at it and thinking wow that's a lot of dosh for one tube annnnnnnnnd I do already have the Princess. Oh man, someone tell me what to do!! Should I get it??


----------



## musicman59

I am looking into buying some tube dampers for my Woo Audio WA5-LE. Does anybody have any experience and preference between the HAL-O from Audio Connection and  the Ultrasonic RX from  Herbie's Audio Labs?
  It seem lik ethe main difference is hte contact are of the pads om the tubes where the HAL-O are wider.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> And yet we keep ploughing money into this hobby like there is no tomorrow...... My 6F8G Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates left Radio Electric Supply (Vacuumetubes.net) today
> 
> My next significant purchase for my WA6 I suspect will be the EML5U4G Mesh Plate, I already have my Pro-forma Invoice from Jac Van de Walle but I keep looking at it and thinking wow that's a lot of dosh for one tube annnnnnnnnd I do already have the Princess. Oh man, someone tell me what to do!! Should I get it??


 

 It is worth it over the princess.  At least to my ears and I'm using a WA6 too.


----------



## hodgjy

I have some Herbies and find them to be good.  Great price, too.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am looking into buying some tube dampers for my Woo Audio WA5-LE. Does anybody have any experience and preference between the HAL-O from Audio Connection and  the Ultrasonic RX from  Herbie's Audio Labs?
> It seem lik ethe main difference is hte contact are of the pads om the tubes where the HAL-O are wider.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## Thaddy

I've owned the HAL-O's in the past and currently use the UltraSonic's for the power tubes of my WA2.  The HAL-O's are an easier fit because they're made of a flexible polymer and the actual dampers don't slide as much on the tubes.  The UltraSonic's are nice, but they can be difficult to install on bottle shaped tubes.  The rings can be bent to reduce the tension, but the dampers are a harder material and tend to slide more.
   
  I think they're definitely worth buying if you plan on tube rolling.  I have a noisy pair of 6AS7G's and the dampers certainly help.  I haven't tried them on the my preamp and rectifier tubes, but plan on doing so in the future.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I've owned the HAL-O's in the past and currently use the UltraSonic's for the power tubes of my WA2.  The HAL-O's are an easier fit because they're made of a flexible polymer and the actual dampers don't slide as much on the tubes.  The UltraSonic's are nice, but they can be difficult to install on bottle shaped tubes.  The rings can be bent to reduce the tension, but the dampers are a harder material and tend to slide more.
> 
> I think they're definitely worth buying if you plan on tube rolling.  I have a noisy pair of 6AS7G's and the dampers certainly help.  I haven't tried them on the my preamp and rectifier tubes, but plan on doing so in the future.


 


 I always think how dampers help in tubes if they're not noisy or microphonics? Any suggestion guys?
   
  I also surf around and like the design of UltraSonic but dunno how it works with my amps.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is worth it over the princess.  At least to my ears and I'm using a WA6 too.


 

  
  Same here, just go straight to the EML and don't look back.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Which EML rectifier are you and Darku referring to: Mesh, Solid, 274B or 5U4G? Monday night, I was all set to put my wallet away for the month of September. And I did. Hid it real good! Until I realized I needed milk from the goodie store to start the week... and FORGOT to remove my driver's license. Upon my return, I checked email, logged on to read 'Woo Audio Owner Unite' and well... you know how these attempts end!
> 
> Many of you here are just bad influences - with posts that reads so good, so right!


 
  I was referring to EML 5U4G Mesh, and if you guys think that Sophia Princess is a big and beatiful tube, think again!! EML is even bigger and more beautifull, but the sound ! Oh My ! It needs some burn-in, but after that Sophia looks like a ordinary rectifier compared to EML


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





darku said:


> I was referring to EML 5U4G Mesh, and if you guys think that Sophia Princess is a big and beatiful tube, think again!! EML is even bigger and more beautifull, but the sound ! Oh My ! It needs some burn-in, but after that Sophia looks like a ordinary rectifier compared to EML


 


 Haha, most of us become the EML's fanboy beside the Woo amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Haha, most of us become the EML's fanboy beside the Woo amp.


 

 I have one and I love it. It's bass response is incredible--even when my Woo amp is turned off!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





darku said:


> I was referring to EML 5U4G Mesh, and if you guys think that Sophia Princess is a big and beatiful tube, think again!! EML is even bigger and more beautifull, but the sound ! Oh My ! It needs some burn-in, but after that Sophia looks like a ordinary rectifier compared to EML


 


 I agree. I tried the Sophias when Jack sent them by mistake instead of the EML and currently I have a some NOS from RCA, Tungsol and Sylvania. Nothing like the EML.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have one and I love it. It's bass response is incredible--even when my Woo amp is turned off!


 

 You funny guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you can feel the bass from the outlook of the tube, we're being insane.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You funny guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  WHAT!!! Danny, you can't???  You need to see an audiologist soon...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WHAT!!! Danny, you can't???  You need to see an audiologist soon...


 






 Just called one and book an appointment............................... a psychiatrist


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You funny guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes! Don't you agree? Even from 8 feet away--just looking at it--that massive tube has a big bass presence. Like the Lamborghini's design. It looks like it's going 100mph even though it is waiting at a stop light. Maybe Lamborghini should start making electron tubes. --OK-- now I'm being ridiculous. Vrrrommmmmmm! Boom boom.
   
  I'm joining you at the psychiatrist office. Two for one.


----------



## dannie01

Sorry, I should edit my word, sentence below.
   
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You funny guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes! Don't you agree? Even from 8 feet away--just looking at it--that massive tube has a big bass presence. Like the Lamborghini's design. It looks like it's going 100mph even though it is waiting at a stop light. Maybe Lamborghini should start making electron tubes. --OK-- now I'm being ridiculous. Vrrrommmmmmm! Boom boom.
> 
> I'm joining you at the psychiatrist office. Two for one.


 


 Couldn't agree more.
   
  See you there, yeah, 2 4 1.


----------



## jc9394

Just received my new baby from OP.  THANKS Danny, I can't wait to fire up this bad boy...


----------



## hodgjy

I only recommend dampers if your tube is highly microphonic.  All tubes are slightly microphonic, which helps add to the "tube flavor."  If it's too microphonic, throw a damper on it to take care of it.  If it's not overly microphonic, don't bother with a damper unless you really think it looks cool.  It won't do anything to the sound.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I always think how dampers help in tubes if they're not noisy or microphonics? Any suggestion guys?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just received my new baby from OP.  THANKS Danny, I can't wait to fire up this bad boy...


 

 You're welcome John. Hope you like it's sounds as I does, enjoy. And I too need to thank you to push me up quick to the WA5LE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I only recommend dampers if your tube is highly microphonic.  All tubes are slightly microphonic, which helps add to the "tube flavor."  If it's too microphonic, throw a damper on it to take care of it.  If it's not overly microphonic, don't bother with a damper unless you really think it looks cool.  It won't do anything to the sound.


 


 Thanks for the info hodgjy. You are the only guy help me to save a penny here.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You're welcome John. Hope you like it's sounds as I does, enjoy. And I too need to thank you to push me up quick to the WA5LE.


 
   
  No need to thank me, it is my pleasure to help you spend your hard earn money.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No need to thank me, it is my pleasure to help you spend your hard earn money.


 

 That's what friends are for.......................................thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's what friends are for.......................................thanks.


 
   
  It maybe my wallet hurts more than your, my WA6 still in the FS thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just received my new baby from OP.  THANKS Danny, I can't wait to fire up this bad boy...


 
  All right. Now I'm really jealous. I have never seen Vcap caps in person before--not ever. I've actually only seen closeups of Danny's work and he does impressive work, yes? And speaking of firing up this bad boy (more like big bad beast), it looks like the amp contains gun power kegs and dynamite. Make sure you adjust the volume to minimum, fire up, then take cover!


----------



## dannie01

One more for you Clayton, the CuTFs in my WA5LE lately. First step of my mod.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It maybe my wallet hurts more than your, my WA6 still in the FS thread.


 







 It will move quick, Jack's amps are hot here.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> All right. Now I'm really jealous. I have never seen Vcap caps in person before--not ever. I've actually only seen closeups of Danny's work and he does impressive work, yes? And speaking of firing up this bad boy (more like big bad beast), it looks like the amp contains gun power kegs and dynamite. Make sure you adjust the volume to minimum, fire up, then take cover!


 

 That is exactly what I'm gonna to do.  All my coworker is in my office when I open this up to take couple pictures.  I will try to get some glamour shot this weekend, this beast needs some to show off Danny's amazing work.

  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> One more for you Clayton, the CuTFs in my WA5LE lately. First step of my mod.


 

 Wow, you are faster than I thought...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is exactly what I'm gonna to do.  All my coworker is in my office when I open this up to take couple pictures.  I will try to get some glamour shot this weekend, this beast needs some to show off Danny's amazing work.
> 
> 
> *Thanks for the kind words, John.*
> ...


----------



## dmac03

Wow, I remember dannie01 stating that his wa22 was modded, but I never knew to what extent. Is it possible to list all those mods?  I have my new wa22 on the way, but don't have my (if any) diy skill. I may never end up modding it, but just for the sake of knowing - are there any reputable businesses or individuals that offer high quality mods to woo amps beyond jack, himself?
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just received my new baby from OP.  THANKS Danny, I can't wait to fire up this bad boy...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Wow, I remember dannie01 stating that his wa22 was modded, but I never knew to what extent. Is it possible to list all those mods?  I have my new wa22 on the way, but don't have my (if any) diy skill. I may never end up modding it, but just for the sake of knowing - are there any reputable businesses or individuals that offer high quality mods to woo amps beyond jack, himself?


 

 I hope Danny don't mind I listed the part he sent me earlier...
   
  1. BlackGate NH 220uf/160V  x 6                   
 2. RMG 470Ω resistor   x 2                     
 3. RMG 220KΩ  resistors  x 4                      
 4. V-Cap CuTF 0.22uf/300V x 4                         
 5. BlackGate NH 150uf/350 x 3                      
 6. Mills MR-200 30.1k resistors x 4                   
 7. Gold plated Japan made selector               
 8. Mundrof Silver Gold 0.5mm &1mm cable


----------



## dmac03

jc9394, it appears you have quite the jewel in your hands. Or should I say, hooked up to your ears.


----------



## hodgjy

I think this is the only time in the history of Head-Fi where the terms "saving money" have ever been used! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the info hodgjy. You are the only guy help me to save a penny here.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> One more for you Clayton, the CuTFs in my WA5LE lately. First step of my mod.


 
   
  hi dannie,
 i'd recommend you bypass those v-caps with another pair of v-caps rated at 0.01 uf/ 300vdc. this will improve
  the imaging presented and give better focus and weight to the higher frequencies by minimizing distortion, imo.
  i've bypassed my wa6 and it sounds better with than without it. it actually makes the 6de7 sound less distorted
  and more refined now.
   
  if budget is an issue, try the russian teflon caps rated at 0.01 uf/ 200v or 600v (it's very big
  though). it's surprisingly good. i'm using some paper in oil caps rated at 0.22 uf/630v with
  the russian teflon bypassed. it gives a better presentation than any other cap combo i've
  experimented with. the russian teflon cap is designated FT (ftoroplast) or K72.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





takezo said:


> hi dannie,
> i'd recommend you bypass those v-caps with another pair of v-caps rated at 0.01 uf/ 300vdc. this will improve
> the imaging presented and give better focus and weight to the higher frequencies by minimizing distortion, imo.
> i've bypassed my wa6 and it sounds better with than without it. it actually makes the 6de7 sound less distorted
> ...


 

 You guys are Mad Scientists!
  I mean...
  You guys are *Mod* Scientists!
  Fantastic.
  I really wish I could watch you do your mods. It's just as interesting to hear about process as it is to watch you actually work your re-magic.
  Good work guys and thanks for posting your mods. It's like peering into someone's secret lab.
  Of course those cap descriptions are Greek to me. But it looks cool, nonetheless.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





takezo said:


> hi dannie,
> i'd recommend you bypass those v-caps with another pair of v-caps rated at 0.01 uf/ 300vdc. this will improve
> the imaging presented and give better focus and weight to the higher frequencies by minimizing distortion, imo.
> i've bypassed my wa6 and it sounds better with than without it. it actually makes the 6de7 sound less distorted
> ...


 

 Thanks takezo, will do that later and I'll check the russian cap FT (ftoroplast) or K72.


----------



## sillysally

For when you run out of mods, *dannie01. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



*


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's here:  the last rectifier tube I ever intend to buy for this amp.
   

   
  I have it paired with the Sylvania Bad Boys right now.  I went with the 274B Mesh rather than the 5U4G that seems to have become more popular.  I tried and tried but never really did find a conclusive comparison between the two that was helpful in determining which to buy.  So, I just went for whichever one was more consistently described with the sound characteristics that were most important to me.  As of right now it has about 10 minutes of burn in time on it so I will refrain from posting impressions.  I know the EML tubes need time to cook before they shine.  I will say that brand spankin new it sounds way nicer than my RCA 5R4GYB.  The sound is more organic and the soundstage/imaging is more coherent.  When the tube starts to gain transparency I can already tell it will be amazing.
   
  As for the Bad Boys, I'm impressed with them too.  Their tonal balance is more or less a perfect match for me, and for my headphones.  I think they are actually a little bit too airy (never thought I'd say such a thing), but I'm very pleased with how they are turning out.  I was worried they might end up a bit too dark with the EML, but my ears are telling me that is not the case right now.  That is basically how I knew I had found real Bad Boys, because otherwise the treble would have been too bright for me.  Sylvanias generally are in my case.
   
  More later. 
   
  Amazing pics btw guys.  I wish I knew enough to perform my own mods.  I have been wondering what my amp would sound like with Auricaps or Mundorf Silver Oils inside.


----------



## SpudHarris

Nice one xcalibur 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Already having the Sophia, I decided last night to pull the trigger on the 5U4G from Jac Music. Man you guys are killing my wallet!


----------



## flaming_june

Those tubes are actually called "bad boys"?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's here:  the last rectifier tube I ever intend to buy for this amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice trio! Perhaps, October, I'd like to swap out my Sophia Princess for a BIG, BOLD & beautiful EML Mesh. Couldn't find any thoughts on the 274B Mesh vs 5U4G Mesh from members; the Web. Wait... something just caught my eye. I noticed your labels read '6DE7 to 6SN7.' On my adapters for the WA6SE read the reverse. A concern or just editing on Glenn's part? (Will send him a PM) He adds a resistor & capacitor for SE models. But shouldn't the direction be the same? My 6SN7s arrive Thur/Fri and I'm hoping there will be no further delays on the count of tubes/adapters.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Don't worry about the label order.  The socket order cannot be wrong or you wouldn't be able to use them.  Be it a WA6 or WA6SE the socket itself is the same.
   
  While we are speaking of adapters, I got a pair from Jack while I was ordering the EML tube just to have a second set.  I'm pretty sure he doesn't make these himself.  The quality is not nearly as good as Glenn's adapters, and I would recommend to others sticking with Glenn for their adapter needs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Same here, just go straight to the EML and don't look back.


 

 The EML 5U4G Mesh Plate? Just got short-listed! My tin for green tea is just about empty - time to start shovin' some _real_ green in there...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Those tubes are actually called "bad boys"?


 

 It's a nickname given to this particular Sylvania tube by audiophiles.  It has a very different sound from the typical Sylvania tube, with a slightly dark and mellow presentation.  Most Sylvanias are more lively with an aggressive top end.  The 3-holes per plate is the key, many Sylvania tubes look like this but have 2-holes per plate and sound different.  Though, supposedly only this exact tube (small green print, black base, silver rectangular top mica, bottom side getter, 3-holes per plate, JAN military tube, vertically printed date code) is a real bad boy.  Further more it is claimed that only the tubes made in this style in 1952 are true bad boys, but I really do not buy this at all.  Mine are '51s as can be seen by the visible date code on the left tube.
   
  The reason I trust I have the real deal is the sound.  Most people agree the Sylvania tubes from this period have a lively sound regardless of the construction type, and the bad boy does not.  It is more lush and airy.  That is exactly the sound I hear from them.  Of course some of this is generalization, but this is the first tube I've found that doesn't have a "but" attached to it so I'm happy regardless of whether it is a true this or that.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Don't worry about the label order.  The socket order cannot be wrong or you wouldn't be able to use them.  Be it a WA6 or WA6SE the socket itself is the same.
> 
> While we are speaking of adapters, I got a pair from Jack while I was ordering the EML tube just to have a second set.  I'm pretty sure he doesn't make these himself.  The quality is not nearly as good as Glenn's adapters, and I would recommend to others sticking with Glenn for their adapter needs.


 

 That's reassuring to know, Xcalibur. I've been waiting nearly a month for a new sound. I ordered a pair of 6FD7 tubes and there was a delay in shipment. When they finally arrived, one tube was DOA. Jack requested a photo for matching. Another week went by as he didn't find a match. After an additional week passed, I ordered adapters from Glenn, asked Jack for credit and only ordered my 6SN7s last Friday. A 9 or 10 September delivery at last!
   
  Anyone ever die of suspense with the headphones on?
   
  Post Script.: Glenn just put me at ease as well... a printing preference.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I have a WA6SE (stock) and I'm currently using the Sophia Princess and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s.  Is the EML 5U4G mesh a compatible substitute for the Princess, or does it require any modification?  I've been reading this thread but can't find any mention of the 5U4G with the WA6SE, specifically.  I'd like to try a different rectifier, but don't want to do any mods to the amp.


----------



## SpudHarris

Stock Photo showing EML 5U4G
   

   
  Apologies if this belongs to one of you guys...........


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Stock Photo showing EML 5U4G
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies if this belongs to one of you guys...........


 

 Nice, my EML logo is not facing out like this.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I have a WA6SE (stock) and I'm currently using the Sophia Princess and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s.  Is the EML 5U4G mesh a compatible substitute for the Princess, or does it require any modification?  I've been reading this thread but can't find any mention of the 5U4G with the WA6SE, specifically.  I'd like to try a different rectifier, but don't want to do any mods to the amp.


 

 It doesn't require any modification, just put it inside and enjoy the music, simple as that


----------



## iRRegular

Thanks for the welcome on the previous pages, so I decided to take your advice and go with WA6-SE. Now the wait for the thing to arrive begins and I hope it'll come to my expectations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although I have already read a lot of your impressions of Jack, I must say once again that he really is a great guy to deal with, all the best regarding his manners and attitude to customers. The whole service was, thanks to him very pleasant and enjoyable and I'm sure I'll return to his products in future too.


----------



## SpudHarris

Welcome and congratulations on your fine amp, be sure to let us have your impressions. The wait will be agonising no doubt but absolutely worth it and yes I'm sure we all agree 110% that Jack is a great guy to deal with and on top of this he makes the finest amps, that guy must sleep like a baby at night hehe...


----------



## debitsohn

purchased a silver WA2 to pair with my T1. things i hope:
  1. i get a raise to offset my purchase
  2. my 2 year old doesnt go to town on the tubes
  3. my wife doesnt ask how much it cost.
   
  Anyone have any experience using the music hall DAC 25.2 with a tube amp? i keep hearing the 25.2 is much better than the dacmagic but the dacmagic has a much bigger following. so confused


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> purchased a silver WA2 to pair with my T1. things i hope:
> 1. i get a raise to offset my purchase
> 2. my 2 year old doesnt go to town on the tubes
> 3. my wife doesnt ask how much it cost.
> ...


 

 Congratulations! You do know that the WA2 does not come with a protective cage (for tubes and not your 2-year-old
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Anyway... YGPM.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> For when you run out of mods, *dannie01.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 You are killing me, ss. Actually, I'm now looking for a 41 or 42 stpepped attenuator, something like the one below but it may be too huge for the limited space. Does you guy have any suggestion?
   


  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The EML 5U4G Mesh Plate? Just got short-listed! My tin for green tea is just about empty - time to start shovin' some _real_ green in there...


 

 Correct, the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate is a much better choice than Sophia to my ears.


----------



## dannie01

I want to try the one below and have contact the seller but no luck, no reply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  See this LINK.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> purchased a silver WA2 to pair with my T1. things i hope:
> 1. i get a raise to offset my purchase
> 2. my 2 year old doesnt go to town on the tubes
> 3. my wife doesnt ask how much it cost.
> ...


 

 Excellent choice!  I'm absolutely thrilled with my PS Audio DL III DAC paired with the WA2.  I've also had the opportunity to source just about every popular preamp and power tube for these amps, feel free to PM me if you're looking for tube suggestions.  Give the stock tubes a chance though, listen to them for a while before replacing them as it makes it much easier to appreciate the sound improvements of upgraded tubes.
   
  Jack and other Head-Fi members think the WA2 and T1's pair together perfectly.  I'm sure you'll really enjoy that combination.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Excellent choice!  I'm absolutely thrilled with my PS Audio DL III DAC paired with the WA2.  I've also had the opportunity to source just about every popular preamp and power tube for these amps, feel free to PM me if you're looking for tube suggestions.  Give the stock tubes a chance though, listen to them for a while before replacing them as it makes it much easier to appreciate the sound improvements of upgraded tubes.
> 
> Jack and other Head-Fi members think the WA2 and T1's pair together perfectly.  I'm sure you'll really enjoy that combination.


 


 thanks! im pretty excited.  have no money for tube rolling right now but Clayton is going to send me some as a welcome to the WA2 club! what a guy.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I want to try the one below and have contact the seller but no luck, no reply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Whoa, that is very nice looking...


----------



## dannie01

And looks robust, too.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> thanks! im pretty excited.  have no money for tube rolling right now but Clayton is going to send me some as a welcome to the WA2 club! what a guy.


 


 WOW, what a guy.
   
  Hey Clayton, would you send us some TS 6SN7GT RPBG or EML 5U4G MP as a welcome, too.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, welcome to the club debitsohn.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> purchased a silver WA2 to pair with my T1. things i hope:
> 1. i get a raise to offset my purchase
> 2. my 2 year old doesnt go to town on the tubes
> 3. my wife doesnt ask how much it cost.
> ...


 

 LMAO You are well on your way to bankruptcy like the rest of us lunatics in here. Enjoy it should be a great match for the T1. Hope I do not like the LCD2 as much so I dont need to buy the 6SE


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> WOW, what a guy.
> 
> Hey Clayton, would you send us some TS 6SN7GT RPBG or EML 5U4G MP as a welcome, too.
> 
> ...


 

 That does not apply to old timer, especially OP.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That does not apply to old timer, especially OP.


 







 Oops.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				debitsohn said:
			
		

> thanks! im pretty excited.  have no money for tube rolling right now but Clayton is going to send me some as a welcome to the WA2 club! what a guy.


 
  You're welcome.
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That does not apply to old timer, especially OP.


 
  WHAT? Huh?
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> WOW, what a guy.
> 
> Hey Clayton, would you send us some TS 6SN7GT RPBG or EML 5U4G MP as a welcome, too.
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry, but the offer expired 10 minutes ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hold on. Now wait a "dog gone" minute. I'm doing this so that *debitsohn* will not get in trouble with his wife. It's the least one can do for helping to drag him into the den of Woo inequity. When his wife looks at the amp and asks: "How much did that cost you!" he can say, "Nothing, it was a gift." Okay, that might be going a little too far. At any rate. Welcome welcome welcome!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> When his wife looks at the amp and asks: "How much did that cost you!" he can say, "Nothing, it was a gift."


 

 I need some of these too, my wife always ask me how much you just spent on this "Old light bulb".


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I need some of these too, my wife always ask me how much you just spent on this "Old light bulb".


 


 i hope she only notices the old light bulbs and not the WA2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> i hope she only notices the old light bulbs and not the WA2.


 

 It is hard to not notice the 5 glowing old light bulbs on WA22.  You maybe surprise, the tubes maybe more expensive than the amp...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're welcome.
> WHAT? Huh?
> Sorry, but the offer expired 10 minutes ago.
> 
> ...


 


 What a guy and what a gorgeous community we have...............................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, that's sweet huh..............

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is hard to not notice the 5 glowing old light bulbs on WA22.  You maybe surprise, the tubes maybe more expensive than the amp...


 


 Close, very close or even more I admitted.


----------



## MantisMU

Thought I should stop lurking and post something since my new WA6 just arrived early this week. First post hurrah!
   
  So previously my headphone experience consisted of an un-amped pair of AKG ATH-AD700, I thought these were fantastic (and still do... relatively speaking), but then my business partner had to go and order a pair of AKG 701s and a WA6. person.
   
  I lasted exactly 3 days before I pulled the trigger on my own Black WA6 and a pair of 600ohm Beyer DT 880s.
   
  The wait was excrutiating thanks to USPS missing several tracking scans and thus paranoia building until I'd convinced myself after 10 days the package was lost forever into the ether. Didn't help that my aforementioned business partner got his in 3 days from USPS.
   
  So the first initial 5 minutes was disappointing on the WA6 after I got it plugged in... but after the tubes warmed up I was blown away. It took about 15 - 20 minutes to hit a nice sweet spot and I was on my way (keeping a close ear on changes due to burn in)  Very happy with the setup now although my wife is going to kill me, especially with future plans for my signal chain.
   
  Currently got my eye on a Dacmagic to replace my lackluster Mbox 2 Mini source. Will start tube rolling after some more burn in time. Got my eye on a certain Princess.
   
  Funny how the upgrade in hardware has changed my musical taste too. I'm now seeking out music of a more acoustic nature than the usual electronic fare I'm usually into. Jazz and Classical now make sense for some reason too  Enjoying my new musical palette!
   
  So glad I found Head-Fi ... Wallet is NOT happy etc etc.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You are killing me, ss. Actually, I'm now looking for a 41 or 42 stpepped attenuator, something like the one below but it may be too huge for the limited space. Does you guy have any suggestion?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Actualy for the ALPS RK50 there is a cut out in the bottom plate so the ALPS could fit. Food for thought for that stepped attenuator.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Actualy for the ALPS RK50 there is a cut out in the bottom plate so the ALPS could fit. Food for thought for that stepped attenuator.


 

 I have no idea if the RK50 is fit for the WA5LE without any alteration is needed but Jack has quoted the price with labor to this potentiometer is a jewel for me. That's why I want to find something else other than RK50.


----------



## musicman59

When I was ordering my WA5-LE I a;ked to Jack about the RK50. He said that there is some laber ocst to install it since the amplifier requires modifications to the standard chasis in order to be able to fit it. I don't remember exactly the cost but I remember it was over $700 for the upgrade. He also told me that sonically would be very difficult to hear the differences between the stock ALPS and the RK50 that the main difference was the mechanical feel when operated. I would loved to have the extra chas to add the RK50 but it was already an expensive amplifier with al lthe upgrades becuase in addition to the the normal Jack upgrades I added upgraded RCA connectors and I supplied all the internal wiring using all OCC copper and Cardas Eutetic solder.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I have no idea if the RK50 is fit for the WA5LE without any alteration is needed but Jack has quoted the price with labor to this potentiometer is a jewel for me. That's why I want to find something else other than RK50.


 
   
  Take a look at this thread...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/379445/woo-audio-wa5-le-custom-build-for-sale-see-post-64


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> When I was ordering my WA5-LE I a;ked to Jack about the RK50. He said that there is some laber ocst to install it since the amplifier requires modifications to the standard chasis in order to be able to fit it. I don't remember exactly the cost but I remember it was over $700 for the upgrade. He also told me that sonically would be very difficult to hear the differences between the stock ALPS and the RK50 that the main difference was the mechanical feel when operated. I would loved to have the extra chas to add the RK50 but it was already an expensive amplifier with al lthe upgrades becuase in addition to the the normal Jack upgrades I added upgraded RCA connectors and I supplied all the internal wiring using all OCC copper and Cardas Eutetic solder.


 

  
  Thanks for the info, musicman.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Take a look at this thread...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/379445/woo-audio-wa5-le-custom-build-for-sale-see-post-64


 

 John, you're so helpful to keep pushing me to hell.................................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> John, you're so helpful to keep pushing me to hell.................................


 

 That is what friends are for...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is what friends are for...


 


 Thank you so much, my friend......................................


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the info, musicman.
> 
> John, you're so helpful to keep pushing me to hell.................................


 

 Remember when the RMS Titanic finally went down in the frigid Atlantic ocean dragging every person within its proximity down with it?
   
  Well I'm going UNDER!
   
  Thanks, *musicman*.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mantismu said:


> Thought I should stop lurking and post something since my new WA6 just arrived early this week. First post hurrah!
> 
> So previously my headphone experience consisted of an un-amped pair of AKG ATH-AD700, I thought these were fantastic (and still do... relatively speaking), but then my business partner had to go and order a pair of AKG 701s and a WA6. person.
> 
> ...


 

 1st post!
   
  Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## flaming_june

Lol.  No, welcome to upgrade fi.
   
   
  Quick question, where do you guys get your replacement tubes for NA?  I'm actively looking to try out emls 274b atm and that last pic posted was very cool.


----------



## Icenine2

Should I get the DACT CT2 stepped attenuator when I order my WA6E?
   
  Keith


----------



## jc9394

DACT CT2 is very nice upgrade if you like to listen at low level but spending the money on EMLs are much better investment.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Take a look at this thread...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/379445/woo-audio-wa5-le-custom-build-for-sale-see-post-64


 

 That guy spent all that money to have the ultimate WA5 built and he is running current production Electro-Harmonix tubes in it along side the EML tubes?  That almost makes me cry.


----------



## dmac03

speaking of the electro-harmonix 6sn7's. If someone was having diffuculty isolating a pair of nos tubes, would you recommend the EHX tubes, shuguang treasure tubes, or another current-production brand?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That guy spent all that money to have the ultimate WA5 built and he is running current production Electro-Harmonix tubes in it along side the EML tubes?  That almost makes me cry.


 
  LOL, that was what I thought also, and why I went wanted the NOS WE 300B matched date pair and the NOS TSRP's matched date code. This combo in the customized WA5LE really does bring the WA5LE to its fullest potential.
   
  That said I would not advise anybody to go to this extreme for two reasons.
  1. The old real nos WE300's in a matched pair (same date code) are crazy priced.
  2. You run a high risk of getting ripped off and the same goes with the TSRP's but to a lesser extent.


----------



## flaming_june

Yeah but the WE tubes are insanely expensive.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> speaking of the electro-harmonix 6sn7's. If someone was having diffuculty isolating a pair of nos tubes, would you recommend the EHX tubes, shuguang treasure tubes, or another current-production brand?


 
   
  I tried current production Tung-Sol  6SN7's - Electro-Harmonix and the Treasures. The Treasures are my favourite (of all 6SN7 types) still but the Electro-Harmonix isn't a bad tube at all. The Tung-Sol's were not very good......


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Jac Music. They ship international, just bought a pair of EML 5U4G mesh plate from them.


 

 Dear Dannie:
   
  How long it usually take for Jac Music to response?
  I got their Price offer and paid by Paypal yesterday morning(about 30hrs ago), but no reply at all.
   
   
  On the other hand, finally decided and got this pair...
   
   

   

   

  [size=medium] 
  Finally decided and got it...
   

   

   
​[/size]


  [size=medium] 
  Finally decided and got it...
   

   

   
​[/size]


----------



## jc9394

NICE, I really to get a pair soon...


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> NICE, I really to get a pair soon...


 
  Thanks, and go ahead!   John.


----------



## Thaddy

I think it's a combination of my ears getting accustomed to the sound along with the amp and tubes burning in, but my WA2 seems to be opening up MUCH more than I recall.  Most notably, the higher end details are a bit easier to detect.  I've been doing a lot of listening with my Tung Sol 7236 tubes and they seem to match up perfectly with just about any genre of music.  They don't do live recordings well though, as the sound stage seems a bit collapsed compared to my 5998/6AS7G tubes.  I'm hoping to get an an Eastsound CD-E5 shortly, so it'll be nice to add a proper CDP to the setup.
   
  Also, for those thinking about purchasing one but are on the fence about getting the stock unit vs. an upgraded one, I'm very glad I went with the stock unit.  For the same amount of money as the Premium Parts upgrade, I've been able to acquire matched pairs of every single popular power and preamp tube available for this amp.  That's *six *pairs of power tubes and *three *pairs of preamp tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Talk about options...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> speaking of the electro-harmonix 6sn7's. If someone was having diffuculty isolating a pair of nos tubes, would you recommend the EHX tubes, shuguang treasure tubes, or another current-production brand?


 

 The Treasures, or the new production Sophia Electric 6SN7's are pretty good.  I thought the EH 6SN7's were dreadful.  And finding NOS 6SN7's isn't really very hard. Let us know if you need any help.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Dear Dannie:
> 
> How long it usually take for Jac Music to response?
> I got their Price offer and paid by Paypal yesterday morning(about 30hrs ago), but no reply at all.
> ...


 

  
  They response very slow, I have same experience as you with no reply 3 days after paid and finally got shipping stauts in 5 days . Keep email Jac for the up-date.
   
  A very nice pair of Tung Sol, congrats. You will never regret for what you paid. 

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> NICE, I really to get a pair soon...


 


 Go ahead, your WA22 worth a pair of tubes like these and they really sound great.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Go ahead, your WA22 worth a pair of tubes like these and they really sound great.


 




  Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Thanks, and go ahead!   John.


 
   
  You guys are EVIL EVIL


----------



## SpudHarris

Jac Music must be very busy at the moment coz I sent an e-mail last night threatening to pull my order for my EML 5U4G Mesh Plate if someone didn't e-mail me back. Their offer states that tubes are despatched as soon as payment is received. Well I sent an immediate payment and didn't hear back until 3 days later (this morning) telling me it will ship tomorrow, I think I'd still be none the wiser if I hadn't complained.
   
  The irony is that with the exchange rates for £ against USD and Euro I could have got it cheaper off Jack but didn't want to wait long for it   Doh!


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> They response very slow, I have same experience as you with no reply 3 days after paid and finally got shipping stauts in 5 days . Keep email Jac for the up-date.


 

 Thanks, Dannie
  I tried to call them but always failed. I suppose I just need to wait few more days...
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You guys are EVIL EVIL


 
  Hey, John, it's not fair.
  As far as I can remember, I think you were one of those pros who encouraged me to get BGRP..


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Thanks, Dannie
> I tried to call them but always failed. I suppose I just need to wait few more days...
> 
> *Not at all, they react slow but once you get the shipping info, you're EML is on the way.*
> ...


----------



## jc9394

I guess, most likely I will order a pair next week.  Just want to see it I can get a Phoenix to play with first.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I guess, most likely I will order a pair next week.  Just want to see it I can get a Phoenix to play with first.


 


 Phoenix?


----------



## Cyberevo

Audio-gd Phoenix??


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Phoenix?


 




  Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Audio-gd Phoenix??


 

 Yes, since I can't get a balanced b22 like some one...


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, since I can't get a balanced b22 like some one...


 
 [size=medium]Why Phoenix? if you have WA22 ... I suppose you should go Ref 5, or Ref 7...  ( I am using DAC-19 DSP now and enjoy it..)
   
   ​[/size]


----------



## jc9394

Phoenix is not a DAC, I have a Perfectwave already.  It is a solid state amp.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Phoenix is not a DAC, I have a Perfectwave already.  It is a solid state amp.


 

 I knew Phonix is not just a DAC, it is also a pre-amp. That's why I was confused that you want to connect WA22 to Phoenix... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my bad!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, since I can't get a balanced b22 like some one...


 
   
  Huh!.................... What?............................Who?.........................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Huh!.................... What?............................Who?.........................


 

 You know who I was referring to...and the b22 he got is one from a top notch builder.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You know who I was referring to...and the b22 he got is one from a top notch builder.


 







 Yeah, yeah........................that guy is just with some luck.


----------



## hodgjy

If the WA2 is anything like the WA3 with respect to how it loads on the tubes, it's been my experience that the power tubes start to open up very nicely at about 35 hours, and then really become noticeably open at 50 hours.  After that, I cannot detect any real differences other than my mood, my listening fatigue, and any possible psychological effect.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I think it's a combination of my ears getting accustomed to the sound along with the amp and tubes burning in, but my WA2 seems to be opening up MUCH more than I recall.  Most notably, the higher end details are a bit easier to detect.  I've been doing a lot of listening with my Tung Sol 7236 tubes and they seem to match up perfectly with just about any genre of music.  They don't do live recordings well though, as the sound stage seems a bit collapsed compared to my 5998/6AS7G tubes.  I'm hoping to get an an Eastsound CD-E5 shortly, so it'll be nice to add a proper CDP to the setup.


----------



## jc9394

Any tube expert can decode a Metal Based GZ34? 
   
  RS1
  55B
   
  I think it is manufactured in 1955.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Any tube expert can decode a Metal Based GZ34?
> 
> RS1
> 55B
> ...


 


 Try to find HERE and HERE, hope you can find an answer there.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Try to find HERE and HERE, hope you can find an answer there.


 

 I did tried them but did not see much on the metal based one.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did tried them but did not see much on the metal based one.


 


 How about THIS and I can find RS1 55A THERE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> How about THIS and I can find RS1 55A THERE.


 

 I did found this, that is why I think it is 1955 but not sure on A vs B.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did found this, that is why I think it is 1955 but not sure on A vs B.


 

 "B" means Made in England-Blackburn? Any tube expert can chime in for this?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> "B" means Made in England-Blackburn? Any tube expert can chime in for this?


 

 or maybe version B?


----------



## takezo

all metal gz34/5ar4 are made by philips. metal mullard and amperex are rebranded philips.
  and all metal gz34 were made in eindhoven, holland by philips.
   
  rs1 - 1954 to 55
  tv2 - 1956 to 58
   
  date code: bottom
  for example: 55B means 1955 february
   
  later non-metal gz34's were made in blackburn, sittard holland and brussels belgium.
  by this time mullard bought out philips.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





takezo said:


> all metal gz34/5ar4 are made by philips. mullard and amperex are rebranded philips.
> and all metal gz34 were made in eindhoven, holland by philips.
> 
> rs1 - 1954 to 55
> ...


 

 Thanks for the detail explanation.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks takezo.


----------



## jc9394

The metal base GZ34 is a great rectifier, probably better than the Sophia Princess but not quite as EML 5U4G or 274B. It is more dynamic and full of energy, but the soundstage is more compress. It is excellent with rock and hip hop.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The metal base GZ34 is a great rectifier, probably better than the Sophia Princess but not quite as EML 5U4G or 274B. It is more dynamic and full of energy, but the soundstage is more compress. It is excellent with rock and hip hop.


 


 I do agree with that, don't have a chance to try a GZ34 metal base but have had a Mallaurd GZ30 in my WA22. It's more dynamic and harder bass that the Sophia but with narrower soundstage. The EML is another league, better presentation in all spectrums. I would highly recommended this rectifier for Woo's amp, it sounds great with WA22 and WA5LE in my experience (never try in the WA6SE).


----------



## TheAudioDude

I just thought I'd share a few impressions with my newly acquired Ken-Rad 6F8Gs (well, one I've had for a while, and the other I received today).
   
  For the past month or so, I've been listening with a pair of RCA grey glass VT-231s, combined with a pair of Tung-Sol 7236s and an EML 5U4G mesh.  The setup was/is great, but I've been wanting to get back into the realm of 6F8G.
   
  For my 6F8G collection, I have a pair of the National Union roundplates, a pair of the Tung-Sol black-glass roundplates, a single grey-glass RCA (soon to be joined by another), and now a pair of Ken-Rads.  Both my NUs and TS's were very good, although I don't use the Tung-Sols because they are incredibly sensitive to any vibration whatsoever (and also pretty noisy).
   
  I guess, that said, enter Mr. Ken Rad.
   
  Right off the bat, my 'go-to' song, Comfortably Numb, sounds the same as it usually does.  Not a huge change, although compared to the VT-231s, the bass is definitely less bloated and more refined in certain parts.  The quantity is roughly the same, though.
   
  I've been listening to a little bit of Neil Young lately.  'My My, Hey Hey (Out of The Blue)' shows a fairly large change.  The acoustic guitars in the beginning sound faster than with the VT-231s.  Everything is more up-front; as if I'm sitting on stage.  So far, I'm not really feeling any fatigue (could be the alcohol, though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).  With my VT-231s, I would feel fatigue just after a few songs, although they sound so good!  I guess it's a double-edged sword, or something.
   
  Mr. Ken Rad has a pretty smooth sound.  Any 'sharp' transients I may have heard before seem duller; in this case, being dull is a good thing.  There's no piercing sounds in my brain and no headaches to worry about.  Sometime this weekend, I want to put in my _GEC 6080_s and see how they _mesh_ with _Ken_.  See that?  I just put names for three of my tubes into one sentence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyways, time for some more music.  These are very lively and pretty fun to listen to.  There's nothing analytical about them, rather you can just sit back and enjoy the music.  There's one thing I would change, and it would be the soundstage.  Oh well, I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too!
   
  Is the phone ringing?  No, it's just my ears begging for more musical bliss.
   




   
  Or maybe you can.  Who knows?
   
  EDIT:
   
  Holy crap I'm listening to Eric Clapton's Unplugged album, and wow.  Soundstage, you say?  I said?  Well, maybe I take it back.  The soundstage isn't HUGE, but the sound is very open.  Placement is incredible and everything sounds so life-like.


----------



## jc9394

Only issue with the GZ34 is not as pretty as the Sophia and EML at night, that glow is simply a piece of art.  Now back to more listening with GZ34...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Phoenix?


 




  Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Audio-gd Phoenix??


 

 Got it, it should be arrive next Thursday or Friday.  Now I need to find a place to hide this from wife, not an easy task, it is big...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> With my VT-231s, I would feel fatigue just after a few songs, although they sound so good!  I guess it's a double-edged sword, or something.


 

 It's interesting you are getting fatigue with the greyglass VT-231.  I'm incredibly sensitive to this and, after some break-in, never had a problem with it at all.  Perhaps the greater power of the WA22 brings out other qualities in them as a signal tube.  One thing I've noticed, though, is that there seems to be an unusually high amount of variation in sound between these greyglass tubes.  I have two pairs, both test NOS with one from 1945 and the other 1948 and they sound almost nothing alike.  The older pair sounds pretty much the way most people describe them, and I really enjoy listening to them for most material though I do take issue with how they handle most vocals.  The other pair sounds like a pair of laid back 6EW7s.  No drive at all, with lazy dynamics and soft bass.  Thing is, the clarity and detail doesn't suffer and they actually have better texture and depth in the midrange than the other pair.  Vocals sound beautiful on this set, warm in the right way and always smooth but never veiled like the older set.  In the end their slow PRAT and gutless bass ruin them but they are a lovely tube to listen to with just the right kind of music.
   
  If you haven't heard a pair of Sylvania bad boys I think they would be right up your alley.  Very smooth and natural, but they have better PRAT and are more open and airy than the greyglass are.  Very, very happy with these tubes and my newly acquired EML 274B complements their sound perfectly.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The metal base GZ34 is a great rectifier, probably better than the Sophia Princess but not quite as EML 5U4G or 274B. It is more dynamic and full of energy,* but the soundstage is more compress*. It is excellent with rock and hip hop.


 

 My big problem with the metal base GZ34 and Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 were the compressed/smaller soundstage.  I listen to a lot of live music and these rectifiers just didn't have the open sound that I craved.  I get that from the Sophia Princess.


----------



## che15

I hared from someone that has listened to  every 6SN7 out there that the best of them all are the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates and then close second the RCA Grey Glass GT. He likes them both much more than the Bad Boys, I guess every ones makes theirs minds up after they pick the tubes they prefer.


----------



## che15

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My big problem with the metal base GZ34 and Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 were the compressed/smaller soundstage.  I listen to a lot of live music and these rectifiers just didn't have the open sound that I craved.  I get that from the Sophia Princess.


 


 You would get even more from the EML , but I am sure you have read that many times over.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





			
				che15 said:
			
		

> I hared from someone that has listened to  every 6SN7 out there that the best of them all are the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates and then close second the RCA Grey Glass GT. He likes them both much more than the Bad Boys, I guess every ones makes theirs minds up after they pick the tubes they prefer.


 
   
  Personal preference colors our impressions a lot, and that is why there is no substitute for listening to a tube for yourself to see what you hear rather than what somebody else did.
   
  The bad boys are an ideal match for my tastes, and that influences how I write about them.  If the things they do well, such as placing lots of air around notes, aren't things you appreciate in the musical presentation you won't care for them as much I'm sure.  One thing I'm willing to assert outside of personal preference, however, is that the bad boys handle treble in general better than the vt-231 RCA greyglass does.  They do it without adding treble energy to the presentation too, which is the magical part.  Cymbals never sounded real to me on headphones until I heard them on the bad boys.
   
  Nobody has *ever* said they didn't like the round plate tung sol though in my experience, why is why I still want to hear one.  I'm unable to sling that amount of money at them for the moment, and there are no bargain auctions on this tube anymore.


----------



## che15

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Personal preference colors our impressions a lot, and that is why there is no substitute for listening to a tube for yourself to see what you hear rather than what somebody else did.
> 
> The bad boys are an ideal match for my tastes, and that influences how I write about them.  If the things they do well, such as placing lots of air around notes, aren't things you appreciate in the musical presentation you won't care for them as much I'm sure.  One thing I'm willing to assert outside of personal preference, however, is that the bad boys handle treble in general better than the vt-231 RCA greyglass does.  They do it without adding treble energy to the presentation too, which is the magical part.  Cymbals never sounded real to me on headphones until I heard them on the bad boys.
> 
> Nobody has *ever* said they didn't like the round plate tung sol though in my experience, why is why I still want to hear one.  I'm unable to sling that amount of money at them for the moment, and there are no bargain auctions on this tube anymore.


 

 I would like to listen to the bad boys and tung sol as well , I am sure they are both great.


----------



## che15

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My big problem with the metal base GZ34 and Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 were the compressed/smaller soundstage.  I listen to a lot of live music and these rectifiers just didn't have the open sound that I craved.  I get that from the Sophia Princess.


 


 Are the Mullard GZ34 Much better than the Bugle Boy?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Are the Mullard GZ34 Much better than the Bugle Boy?


 

 I didn't think the Mullard was Much better, no.  I sold it and kept the Bugle Boy, so I could have some change in my pocket.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My big problem with the metal base GZ34 and Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 were the compressed/smaller soundstage.  I listen to a lot of live music and these rectifiers just didn't have the open sound that I craved.  I get that from the Sophia Princess.


 

 This is definitely true with my current Mullard GZ34, but I find that with the headphones being the HD800's which has incredibly wide soundstage in the first place, that it's not an issue that is felt as much with that particular headphone.  HD800 can actually be little "too" artificially wide/open sometimes with certain songs IMO (I got this feeling with the 274B and 5U4G on my 6SE) and GZ34 helps in compress it more to not-as-weird levels for me... making it a better all rounders than usual.  Moreover I feel that they warm up and bring forward the lower midrange that can sometimes lack on it and ease up a bit on the treble, bringing it more balance.
   
  As it was originally said it's likely a lot to do with the music selection as well.  I do listen to a bigger share of Rock/Pop, not as much acoustic/classical.  Different ideal tubes for different needs I suppose.


----------



## dannie01

Some up-date on my tube rolling. The EAT 300B just installed and tested, make sure they can light up and with sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But these tubes doesn't glow that much as expected, the Sophia is brighter. Also the construction has big different, Sophia with a cross shape plate in shiney chrome color and the EAT 300B as shown below, a big black plate with two strong supporting rods both in the front and back. Since the instruction mentioned it need 50-100 hrs to opens up the sound. More initial impression will be followed.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Jac Music must be very busy at the moment coz I sent an e-mail last night threatening to pull my order for my EML 5U4G Mesh Plate if someone didn't e-mail me back. Their offer states that tubes are despatched as soon as payment is received. Well I sent an immediate payment and didn't hear back until 3 days later (this morning) telling me it will ship tomorrow, I think I'd still be none the wiser if I hadn't complained.
> 
> The irony is that with the exchange rates for £ against USD and Euro I could have got it cheaper off Jack but didn't want to wait long for it   Doh!


 
   
  On the NA front on the other hand, I emailed tubesusa for the eml tubes and got an email and quote back in 2 hours.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> On the NA front on the other hand, I emailed tubesusa for the eml tubes and got an email and quote back in 2 hours.


 

 That's great service... No doubt Jack would have got back to me sooner than Jac Music but the shipping would have been longer, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from Jack if shipping time across the water wasn't an issue.
   
  I do have my shipping reference from Jac Music as promised this morning so my EML 5U4G will be with me in a few days time (Germany to UK). Just wish my T1's from Beyer were on route also, they are quoting up to 10 weeks


----------



## DarKu

Hey guys I have an ideea !
  Maybe we can all write an e-mail to Emission Labs and to ask them if they can make a 6SN7 tube for us !! More e-mails means more chances 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would like to have such tubes as i know EML are making probably the best tubes nowadays (current production).
  Sophia electric is already making 6SN7, but people agrees that those are bit on the bright side and are dieing as fast as 274B Mesh, which i really don't like.
   
  Tomorrow i will post my final impressions about EML 5U4G Mesh VS Sophia Princes 274B Mesh, I borrowed the EML from a friend, I'm so sorry that it isn't mine. Wait my detailed impressions soon, so far i'm blowned away about how different EML can sound compared to Sophia (in a good way)


----------



## SpudHarris

That's a comparison I've been waiting for......
   
  What please tell me you used DT880/600's in your comparison  My EML should be here Tuesday.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote:  





> Tomorrow i will post my final impressions about EML 5U4G Mesh VS Sophia Princes 274B Mesh, I borrowed the EML from a friend, I'm so sorry that it isn't mine. Wait my detailed impressions soon, so far i'm blowned away about how different EML can sound compared to Sophia (in a good way)


 

 Looking forward to it. Going to buy the EML myself soon.


----------



## Skylab

I have a bunch of 5AR4's, including several Mullard GZ34.  But at least in the WA6, I prefer almost any NOS 5U4G over any of the 5AR4's.


----------



## debitsohn

tube talk is like a foreign language... a very expensive foreign language. glad i cant understand it!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> tube talk is like a foreign language... a very expensive foreign language. glad i cant understand it!


 
   
*Welcome to Tube Talk 101. Class in now in session. I think. *





   
  Yes, it does get very expensive if you want. And as for learning the language: like any foreign language the first thing you should do is not let it scare you. Relax, read what you can and take in what you are able to; ask a few questions or not. Sooner or later it will start to make sense to you. But you must first be comfortable with your first language which is the stock tubes in your amp. Just listen to them for a while and get comfortable with its sound. Then move on when you're ready. Of course it always helps when you have someone to converse with! So when your WA2 arrives--kick back and enjoy the music. Then when that sexy foreign exchange student tube arrives, start listening! Hah! j/k of course.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My big problem with the metal base GZ34 and Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 were the compressed/smaller soundstage.  I listen to a lot of live music and these rectifiers just didn't have the open sound that I craved.  I get that from the Sophia Princess.


 

 It brothers me too with compress soundstage, I only use it with Rock.  When I listen to live/acoustics, I go back to either Sophia or EML.

  
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> You would get even more from the EML , but I am sure you have read that many times over.


 


 EML is slightly bigger than Sophia but it is kind of too wide and become artificial when using HD800 or AKG K702 on certain recordings.
  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> This is definitely true with my current Mullard GZ34, but I find that with the headphones being the HD800's which has incredibly wide soundstage in the first place, that it's not an issue that is felt as much with that particular headphone.  HD800 can actually be little "too" artificially wide/open sometimes with certain songs IMO (I got this feeling with the 274B and 5U4G on my 6SE) and GZ34 helps in compress it more to not-as-weird levels for me... making it a better all rounders than usual.  Moreover I feel that they warm up and bring forward the lower midrange that can sometimes lack on it and ease up a bit on the treble, bringing it more balance.
> 
> As it was originally said it's likely a lot to do with the music selection as well.  I do listen to a bigger share of Rock/Pop, not as much acoustic/classical.  Different ideal tubes for different needs I suppose.


 
   
  100% agree on this...it also has to do with the driver tubes.  I use WA6 with metal based GZ34 and 6FD7.  I have not try 6EW7 yet, but I'm sure it will widen the soundstage,


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Some up-date on my tube rolling. The EAT 300B just installed and tested, make sure they can light up and with sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 WOW, that is all I can say now...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> tube talk is like a foreign language... a very expensive foreign language. glad i cant understand it!


 

 You will have the itch to roll very soon and it will not stop until you find the best combo.  Did anyone said "Sorry for your wallet" when you join this forum?  It is especially true once you land on this thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey dannie01. Your amp is outrageously beautiful. And those tubes! beauts! Why didn't you get the EML 300B to go with your 5U4G's?


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> *Welcome to Tube Talk 101. Class in now in session. I think. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 when you put it like that... lol i like sexy things.  please continue the tube talk. i guess i should check which the WA2 uses


----------



## realmassy

Just placed an order for the Woo 3!
  My heart really wanted me to go for the Woo 2, but $1000 is too much for me at the moment 
  I will drive my beloved HD650, and probably some DT880, 600ohm.
  Any recommendation for a DAC? I use to own a Audio-GD Ref.5, and though I really liked it I'm looking for smoother and richer sound.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Just placed an order for the Woo 3!
> My heart really wanted me to go for the Woo 2, but $1000 is too much for me at the moment
> I will drive my beloved HD650, and probably some DT880, 600ohm.
> Any recommendation for a DAC? I use to own a Audio-GD Ref.5, and though I really liked it I'm looking for smoother and richer sound.


 

 you sir, are a smarter and more responsible man than i am. i shouldve got the WA3 but got the WA2. as for dacs, i cant help you. lol off the top of my head, isnt the ref 5 really good?


----------



## MrFisherman

C'mon, FedEx dude.  You can do it!
   
  WA6 today, if FedEx can manage it.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> you sir, are a smarter and more responsible man than i am. i shouldve got the WA3 but got the WA2. as for dacs, i cant help you. lol off the top of my head, isnt the ref 5 really good?


 

 LOL
  You see that boy in the picture, do you?  Actually the problem is not the kid...but his mother!!
  Anyway, the ref.5 is really good, but it's (too) revealing of poor recordings


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> C'mon, FedEx dude.  You can do it!
> 
> WA6 today, if FedEx can manage it.


 
  Yes, yes, yes, yes. Go go go go. I'm rooting for you. You're getting your WA6 today!


----------



## MrFisherman

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, yes, yes, yes. Go go go go. I'm rooting for you. You're getting it today!


 




   
  Thanks.  I'm thinking about going outside and sitting on the curb.  I'm so excited.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> C'mon, FedEx dude.  You can do it!
> 
> WA6 today, if FedEx can manage it.


 

 congrats! lol who knows when mine will be shipped =\


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> Thanks.  I'm thinking about going outside and sitting on the curb.  I'm so excited.


 

 I can certainly relate to that. I usually sit by my window above the curb and wait to pounce the truck. Sort of like a leopard in wait.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You should get your WA6 area cleared and source system ready to go--interconnects and all...


----------



## debitsohn

lol nice Clayton.


----------



## MrFisherman

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> congrats! lol who knows when mine will be shipped =\


 

 Thanks! 
   
  Jack Woo said two week lead time and it was two weeks to the day that it shipped.  And then another entire week to get trucked cross-country.  Felt like two months.  I'm used to two day Amazon deliveries.
   
  Have faith.  It'll eventually shake loose and come crawling home.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Jack Woo said two week lead time and it was two weeks to the day that it shipped.  And then another entire week to get trucked cross-country.  Felt like two months.  I'm used to two day Amazon deliveries.
> 
> Have faith.  It'll eventually shake loose and come crawling home.


 

 lol me too, amazon has collected much money of mine over the years.  Jack said 1 week build time for mine! so i should have it in about a week and half to my door.... i hope!


----------



## MrFisherman

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I can certainly relate to that. I usually sit by my window above the curb and wait to pounce the truck. Sort of like a leopard in wait.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Awesome. 
   
  My other thought was to sit on the roof with rocks and throw them down at _any_ FedEx truck that passed by.  If I lived in an area with trees I'd rig them up to fall and block the road at the truck's approach.
   
  I may be getting carried away.  I may be hyperventilating.  I know!  More caffeine.  That'll help.


----------



## TheWuss

and be sure you have a power cord ready.
  the wa6 doesn't come with one.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Just placed an order for the Woo 3!
> My heart really wanted me to go for the Woo 2, but $1000 is too much for me at the moment
> I will drive my beloved HD650, and probably some DT880, 600ohm.
> Any recommendation for a DAC? I use to own a Audio-GD Ref.5, and though I really liked it I'm looking for smoother and richer sound.


 

 I've been very pleased with my PS Audio Digital Link III so far.  It seems to have a very transparent sound that really makes the tube rolling that much more enjoyable.


----------



## MrFisherman

Oh, and I am cleared and ready to go.


----------



## flaming_june

Hahaha,
   
  is it here yet?  GO fedex.


----------



## MrFisherman

Not yet. 
   
  Does FedEx stop Saturday delivery at noon?  If they do they've got 8 minutes.  Let's go, driverman!


----------



## Clayton SF

I believe if they're committed to deliver today then that's what they'll do. Fingers X'd. Remember, keep a steady hand when pitching those rocks and make sure that the tree is ready to fall behind the truck--and not ON the truck.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> Not yet.
> 
> Does FedEx stop Saturday delivery at noon?  If they do they've got 8 minutes.  Let's go, driverman!


 

 there yet? lol


----------



## flaming_june

If memory serves, they might be there after 5pm.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I can certainly relate to that. I usually sit by my window above the curb and wait to pounce the truck. Sort of like a leopard in wait.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's a jungle out there - I too, was lying in wait! My change in behavior started the night before. At bedtime ('round midnight) I decided to check FedEx tracking for an update. Once I saw the processing activity for the local hub at FedEx, I knew then and there my WA6SE would be out on the truck just hours later for a 1 pm delivery (appx). What I didn't know was, what to do next?!
   
  I went from sleepy to w-i-d-e awake in the mere tracking of a package. So, with the anxiety and anticipation of a new parent bringing a baby home, I remodeled my entire room! This took me from 12:30 am thru 7 am, because everything had to be just so - including cables. Then breakfast. A power nap (90 min). Lunch, and then the grand roar of the truck. Yeah, I ran to the window like a lil' school kid! Wrong truck - UPS! That's when I pitched a chair at a 45 degree angle to the window and began lying in wait.
   
  My guy eventually rolled up - 9 July @ 1400 hours. I haven't been the same since!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> Not yet.
> 
> Does FedEx stop Saturday delivery at noon?  If they do they've got 8 minutes.  Let's go, driverman!


 

 I'd call Customer Service (800-xxx-xxxx) and status the delivery...


----------



## Clayton SF

tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick...
  grass is growing, I can see it growing, yes I can see it growing...
  tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock...
   
  SQUIRREL!
   
  tick tock...


----------



## MrFisherman

My F5 key is broken from banging on the FedEx site.  Still says it's on the truck and not recipient not home, which has happened more than once while I've waited for a package.
   
  I wish I had something to remodel, quietly.  I've avoided even doing the dishes on the off chance I won't hear the door buzzer.
   
  I'm starting to hate this delivery guy.  Irrational, I know.  I'm sure he's out there somewhere in the city taking a nap in the back of his truck.
   
  Wake up, Mr. FedExMan!  Wake up!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> I'm starting to hate this delivery guy.  Irrational, I know.  I'm sure he's out there somewhere in the city taking a nap in the back of his truck.
> 
> Wake up, Mr. FedExMan!  Wake up!


 

 You know, I'm starting to hate that FedExMan too. He's making me wait in front of my computer pressing refresh every minute just to see if you've gotten your delivery yet.


----------



## MrFisherman

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You know, I'm starting to hate that FedExMan too. He's making me wait in front of my computer pressing refresh every minute just to see if you've gotten your delivery yet.


 
   
  You're a good man.  Misery does love company, after all.


----------



## MrFisherman

IT"S HERE!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> IT"S HERE!


 

*YAY*! The Leopard pounced!!! I knew it would arrive as scheduled (whew). I guess we won't hear from you for a while! Congrats, my friend.


----------



## che15

Great Fisherman enjoy, it is a great amp.


----------



## balderon

Fisherman isn't fishing today, ehh? Congrats!
   
  I took less than a day before I wanted to start rolling tubes. I bet it'll take less than 24 hours. Any takers?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Congrats on the amp!  Welcome to the Woo-side, young padawan.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hey, guys
   
  I would like to share some initial feeling about Tung-sol BGRP.
  However, I am totally new to tubes and this is my first trail of "tube upgrade", I have no reference, or experience to judge if this is the best 6SN7 like other pros would do.
   

   
  I just put it on my WA6SE about 2~3 hours. Compare to stock GE 6EW7 came with my WA6SE, it makes me "Wow" immediately after few minutes warm up. The sound is so much more revealed, the dynamic improves a lot, and the most dramatic change is the "soundstage".  On my system and in my own feeling, the soundstage is about 20% wider and more than 50% deeper. It brings midrange right in front of me just like I am on the stage while the background music moves several meters backward than original. I can easily image there is a concert hall and every instrument has its position, not only right and left, but front and rear. 
   
  I am not good in English and it makes me much more difficult to describe acoustic.
  However, I would say Tung-sol BGRP makes the image of the sound just like watching movies from normal theater to a "3D IMAX".
  The screen is much bigger and everything has its "distance".
   
  There is always something trade-off come together as a package.
  Tung-sol BGRP has less amount of bass which is definately a disaster to my HD800(comparing to my HD600, HD650).
  I have ordered EML 5U4G mesh and waiting to get it, truly hope it can make up this problem.
   
  My BGRP has another 2 issues : Microphone effect and noise.
  The noise starts to appear after volume nob over 12 o'clock and keep increasing.
  I tried to clear the pins of tubes, but no improvement.
  Fortunately BGRP sounds louder than stock 6EW7, so I can enjoy most of the music under 10 o'clock.
   
  As to the Microphone effect, it is quite annoying(nature of vintage tubes?).
  Even I turn off the volume, I can still hear it when I touch my WA6SE.
  I plan to buy something like Ensemble Tubesox, or tube rings.
  Does anyone have better idea?
  Thanks!
   
  Ivan.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Those EAT 300B tubes have glass envelopes which look exactly like the ones EML makes.   *strokes imaginary beard*


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WOW, that is all I can say now...


 


 Thanks, John.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey dannie01. Your amp is outrageously beautiful. And those tubes! beauts! Why didn't you get the EML 300B to go with your 5U4G's?


 

 Thanks for compliment, Clayton. I've searched for some300B reviews for those current production, 2 were most recommended, the KR and EAT are both highly praised beside the sky high priced NOS 300B. No KR can be found in my city so I go for the EAT.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Those EAT 300B tubes have glass envelopes which look exactly like the ones EML makes.   *strokes imaginary beard*


 


 Just checked the EML website, the EML 300B Mesh looks impressive but the structure is different from the EAT. The black plate with the EAT and chrome mesh plate with the EML (the woven mesh is beautiful). Does anyone knows how's they differ?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> IT"S HERE!


 


 Congrats, MrFisherman. Enjoy your new toy and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hey, guys
> 
> I would like to share some initial feeling about Tung-sol BGRP.
> However, I am totally new to tubes and this is my first trail of "tube upgrade", I have no reference, or experience to judge if this is the best 6SN7 like other pros would do.
> ...


 

 Ivan,
   
  When did you  get that WA6SE? Only the latest 6SE can use those tubes.
   
  Round mica has been said in rare cases to cause "Microphone effect and noise"
   
  I have a WA6SE and two NOS pairs of TSRP (oval mica) but I wound never use them in my WA6SE.


----------



## Skylab

@ Cyberevo -
   
  Yes, many vintage tubes can be pretty microphonic.  And tube dampers can help some, yes, although in my experience it does not completely cure it.  But I am not really bothered much by this. As long the tubes are not so microphonic that they make sounds unless you are touching the amp, I tend not to worry.
   
  The noise, though, is more of a concern IF it starts at a level at which you would normally listen.  I use the TS BGRP in my Cary preamp, and I can turn the volume almost all the way up with no noise.  Yet I cannot actually listen at any level past 9:00.


----------



## Thaddy

Those "tube dampers" from Ensemble Audio don't look very effective.  I'd recommend the ones from Herbie's Audio Lab.  I've been using them on my older power tubes and, like Skylab mentioned, while they don't cure 100% of microphonics, they do help.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Those "tube dampers" from Ensemble Audio don't look very effective.  I'd recommend the ones from Herbie's Audio Lab.  I've been using them on my older power tubes and, like Skylab mentioned, while they don't cure 100% of microphonics, they do help.


 

 Indeed, the tube dampers I have are also Herbie's.


----------



## MrFisherman

And it is awesome.  Everything I had hoped for. 
   
  Thanks, all.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ivan,
> 
> When did you  get that WA6SE? Only the latest 6SE can use those tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Dear Sillysally,
   
  I got my WA6SE(Maxed) from a local dealer on July, it was the last Woo amp he had and he used this one as demonstration.
  I suppose this WA6SE was made later than Apirl this year.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> @ Cyberevo -
> 
> Yes, many vintage tubes can be pretty microphonic.  And tube dampers can help some, yes, although in my experience it does not completely cure it.  But I am not really bothered much by this. As long the tubes are not so microphonic that they make sounds unless you are touching the amp, I tend not to worry.
> 
> The noise, though, is more of a concern IF it starts at a level at which you would normally listen.  I use the TS BGRP in my Cary preamp, and I can turn the volume almost all the way up with no noise.  Yet I cannot actually listen at any level past 9:00.


 


 Dear Skylab,
   
  The microphonic problem is serious. Even I move my head, the cable of HD800 moves a little and this vibration transmit to the connection point of amp, and it cause hum in the phones, just like echo.
   
  The noise is not a big problem to me at this moment. I can enjoy most of music around 9 o'clock.
  I have carefully cleaned the pins of tubes with a metal brush again today, not much help.
  Dannie just sent me a PM and I will take his advice to run this BGRP few more days, maybe time will cure it.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Those "tube dampers" from Ensemble Audio don't look very effective.  I'd recommend the ones from Herbie's Audio Lab.  I've been using them on my older power tubes and, like Skylab mentioned, while they don't cure 100% of microphonics, they do help.


 

 Dear Thaddy,
   
  Thanks for the information, will search Herbie's Audio Lab here in my country.
   
   
   
  Thanks to every pro who helps me here, glad to have you watching my back.
   
  And, sorry to my wallet, too.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> And it is awesome.  Everything I had hoped for.
> 
> Thanks, all.


 

 I'm glad you are able to enjoy your new amp during the weekend even though you waited until 4:30 PM yesterday. (Long wait, yes?) When you have time please post pictures of your new rig. I'd like to see how it looks on that shelf above all of those headphones.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> And it is awesome.  Everything I had hoped for.
> 
> Thanks, all.


 

 Congrats!
   
  Hopefully you will enjoy it and be satisfied, and be strong enough to stop surfing on Headfi, especially this thread.
  There are many pros(Evils) here who always make you "want more" than you "hoped for" ,and make you sorry to your wallet.


----------



## gknix

Looking forward to more impressions of the 6SN7 with the wa6 models!


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Just placed an order for the Woo 3!
> My heart really wanted me to go for the Woo 2, but $1000 is too much for me at the moment
> I will drive my beloved HD650, and probably some DT880, 600ohm.
> Any recommendation for a DAC? I use to own a Audio-GD Ref.5, and though I really liked it I'm looking for smoother and richer sound.


 

 I was somewhat planning to buy a ref-5 (or nfb-1) to go with my wa22. Your words are a little disheartening. Have you considered something like the "musical" audio-gd dac3se? Or are you trying to stay away from other audio-gd products?
   
  As already mentioned, the psa dl3 seems to be a very popular choice with the woo amps.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I was somewhat planning to buy a ref-5 (or nfb-1) to go with my wa22. Your words are a little disheartening. Have you considered something like the "musical" audio-gd dac3se? Or are you trying to stay away from other audio-gd products?
> 
> As already mentioned, the psa dl3 seems to be a very popular choice with the woo amps.


 

 I remember when he was selling the ROC, he did not feel right keeping the Ref-5 without the ROC...I tried to persuade him on all its features anyway....lol


  
  Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Just placed an order for the Woo 3!
> My heart really wanted me to go for the Woo 2, but $1000 is too much for me at the moment
> I will drive my beloved HD650, and probably some DT880, 600ohm.
> Any recommendation for a DAC? I use to own a Audio-GD Ref.5, and though I really liked it I'm looking for smoother and richer sound.


 


 Can't believe you sold the Ref-5....lol...I would have taken it off your hands if you were in the US....Congrats on the WA3...I have my DAC-19DF connected to my WA2........NICE SOUNDS INDEED


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I was somewhat planning to buy a ref-5 (or nfb-1) to go with my wa22. Your words are a little disheartening. Have you considered something like the "musical" audio-gd dac3se? Or are you trying to stay away from other audio-gd products?
> 
> As already mentioned, the psa dl3 seems to be a very popular choice with the woo amps.


 

 The Ref.5 is great, no doubts about that!
  But...I felt there was something I was not totally happy with...slightly lack of dynamics, and it was very unforgiven of bad recordings.
  I'll probably try a NOS dac, I'm dreaming of a Audio Note, though it's quite expensive.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> I remember when he was selling the ROC, he did not feel right keeping the Ref-5 without the ROC...I tried to persuade him on all its features anyway....lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL
  yeah I remember 
  I find the DAC19 (though I never heard) is probably a better match than the Ref.5. What I mean is, I'd rather spend some money on headphones and tubes than on a balanced source for a SE amp.


----------



## debitsohn

*trumpets play
   
  Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.

 A package will ship to you on 09/13/2010 via FedEx Ground to the
 following address:


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> *trumpets play
> 
> Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.
> 
> ...


 


 Congrats, it's finally on the way, enjoy.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> *trumpets play
> 
> Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.
> 
> ...


 
  What did you end up ordering?


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> What did you end up ordering?


 

 WA2 and thanks!!


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> The Ref.5 is great, no doubts about that!
> But...I felt there was something I was not totally happy with...slightly lack of dynamics, and it was very unforgiven of bad recordings.
> I'll probably try a NOS dac, I'm dreaming of a Audio Note, though it's quite expensive.


 

 Or the havana that you mentioned before.  The issue is though, the audio gd dac 19 is 640, but NOS dacs are quite expensive, much more than the dac 19.  From what I read they don't necessarily measure up in detail either.  But go for one and let us know how you like it with the 3.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> WA2 and thanks!!


 

 Nice choice!  I'll be interested in hearing your impressions once it arrives.  Check out my user profile for the "must-have" tubes


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> *trumpets play
> 
> Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Congrats. I'm happy for you.
   
  I ordered my amp on August 5th and I've yet to hear any word on my shipping date.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> A package will ship to you on 09/13/2010 via FedEx Ground to the
> following address:


 


 well.  you cleverly did not post the address.
  which means none of us can intercept the package.
  dang!


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Congrats. I'm happy for you.
> 
> I ordered my amp on August 5th and I've yet to hear any word on my shipping date.


 

 what amp did you order>? ... wonder why?

  
  Quote: 





thewuss said:


> well.  you cleverly did not post the address.
> which means none of us can intercept the package.
> dang!


 

 you kdiding me? id have ppl hiding in the bushes, upstairs, on the roof... like ninjas..  lol


----------



## Thaddy

Jack still may be having some slight delays with arriving parts for some of his amps.  Because of this, it only took him 6 days to build and ship my WA2.  It really depends on what you order and what parts he has in stock.  I will say this though, his estimates on when amps will ship seem to pretty pretty accurate, whether it's one week or six.


----------



## musicman59

My WA5-LE took about 6 weeks because he was waiting for some of the upgraded parts.


----------



## dmac03

I just ordered a regular ol' wa22. He stated the lead time was 3-4 weeks, but that time frame has come and gone. I guess since its not here, I have more time to research other things I want.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I just ordered a regular ol' wa22. He stated the lead time was 3-4 weeks, but that time frame has come and gone. I guess since its not here, I have more time to research other things I want.


 

 Just be patient.  Back when I ordered my WA22, the average wait time was around 4 weeks, but it took more like 6 weeks for mine to be completed.
   
  I work in the electronics industry, and we've been experiencing part shortages (anything from MOSFETs to transformer cores) for nearly a year or so, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's experiencing some of the same.


----------



## jc9394

Any one tried this XLR switch?
   
  http://www.goldpt.com/sw2x.html


----------



## SpudHarris

I have never tried 6SN7WGTA, have they got a good rep? I'm looking at these.
   

   
  The last ones I bought (not WGTA) with green labelling were unbearably bright and after 10 mins I couldn't stand it. Does anyone have a set of these??
   
  Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## musicman59

I got a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGTA but with Brwon Base and I really like them. They have a big soundstage, crips highs, a lot of air in the midrange and very good impact in the bottom end.


----------



## Skylab

Same here - I only have the brown-base Sylvania 6SN7WGTA, but I think they sound terrific - relatively quite a bargain for NOS 6SN7's.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks Musicman & Skylab. I'm trying to hold off until my Black Glass Round Plate 6F8G's get here but they are tempting me....


----------



## musicman59

I think they are different. The TS 6F8G have deeper bass imo but the BB Sylvania have more inner detail and are more open. Just two different flavors of good sounding tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Just a quick note, I don't believe what he has up there are bad boys.  The bad boys aren't top getters.  These tubes are also a balanced and open tube in the same vein as the bad boy, but the character is still a bit different.


----------



## slayerizer

Here are some pictures of my gear, been meaning to post these for a while now:


----------



## dmac03

Very nice pics. Its clear how huge that EML 5U4G when its plugged in to your WA6. But I bet the sound is just as big as the tube.


----------



## slayerizer

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Very nice pics. Its clear how huge that EML 5U4G when its plugged in to your WA6. But I bet the sound is just as big as the tube.


 

 Yeah, I had it for about a couple months now. So far put around 60 hours on it and it's really starting to open up. Compared to the stock rectifier that came with my WA6, the sound stage is greatly improved and the clarity is just amazing especially when listening to old bands like Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, etc (I mostly listen to old rock and heavy metal and some classical music). Also when you listened to those albums before on average gear and now get to discover things that you haven't heard before...it's just great!
   
  My dad's been listening to the new stereo The Beatles remasters the other day and he's quite amazed with the sound.
   
  I haven't really started messing around rolling the tubes and what not!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





slayerizer said:


> Here are some pictures of my gear, been meaning to post these for a while now:


 
   
  Clean setup. Your Woo certainly compliments the sleek black sheen of your Onkyo CD player as well as the organic silver potted plant. And the close-up of the EML has wonderful qualities. That photo, like the music it helps to reproduce, is magical. Thanks for posting photos of your Woo 6 in its natural habitat!


----------



## slayerizer

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Clean setup. Your Woo certainly compliments the sleek black sheen of your Onkyo CD player as well as the organic silver potted plant. And the close-up of the EML has wonderful qualities. That photo, like the music it helps to reproduce, is magical. Thanks for posting photos of your Woo 6 in its natural habitat!


 

 Thanks Clayton!


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Very nice pics. Its clear how huge that EML 5U4G when its plugged in to your WA6. But I bet the sound is just as big as the tube.


 

 Yes, I think the angle of one of the photos certainly shows that tube for what it is - HUGE!  Mine should be here today with luck and I can comment for real.


----------



## DarKu

*The Clash of Titans! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
  Ok guys I promised you a quick review of the EML 5U4G Mesh VS Sophia Princess 274B Mesh
  I had EML for about 4 days listening to it every night and I tell you it was a delight ! I was testing both rectifiers on T1 and HD800, so no DT880 this time, sorry.
   
  First thing that struck me immediately was the detail retrieval, for the first time in my WA6SE I heard new details in some recordings that I know for more that 10 years! It was clear to me that EML has more details than Sophia.
  Also the bass on all my rock recordings hits harder and faster, definetely this tube is faster, more dynamic and has deeper bass. It's also punchier, for fast acoustic music, pop, rock or electronica this is just must have.
  Yesterday I was playing some Guitar Hero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (i miss my home drumset so much, so I play this game to remember) and for a moment i thought that i had T1 on my head, the bass was so quick with fast transients and clear yet not fatiguing cymbals, but after that i realized I had HD800, i couldn't believe because of that fast and deep bass.
  Soundstage also is more 3D now and wider, instrument placement is more easy for "look" at, an the background between the notes is more black and silent. I also noticed something compared to Sophia, If i would not heard the EML i would not observe that. The Sophia is slightly on the bright side, I found Sophia to have a hotter treble and more harsh at times, more sibilant and it doenst work very well with T1 or HD800 because of that, EML in comparison have a smoother treble, the treble extesion is the same, just it sounds more real and not so harsh at all.
  Other thing is what i observed is the tone of the music, the tone is very real, life like and it's a bit heavier than the tone of Sophia, it has more "meat", more weight to it, i don't know how to express this in words.
  Overall this is the best rectifier I've heard, and I had many of them! most of them NOS of different brands, I preffer EML to all others and not slightly but by a large margin.
   
  My ratings:
  - Detail retrieval: Sophia: 8    EML mesh : 9.8
  - Bass extension: Sophia: 7.5   EML mesh: 9.8
  - Midrange purity: Sophia: 9   EML mesh: 9.8
  - Hights extension: Sophia: 9.5   EML mesh: 9.5  (but i preffer EML treble more because it has the same amount of details but it's not harsh at all, very easy to listen)
  - PRaT: Sophia: 8   EML mesh: 9.5
  - Soundstage: Sophia: 8.5    EML mesh: 9.8 (it's wider and more 3D)
   
  I didnt' give the EML 10 points because I didn't hear all available rectifiers on the market, never tried more expensive EAT, KR audio or other new production rectifiers. Otherwise i would give 10 point to EML on about every rating.
  This test was done with my ears, so this is subjective, you may hear different than me. The EML rectifier is not mine, i borrowed it from a friend of mine, so i'm not hailing my stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I just wish EML would have produced 6SN7 tubes too..
   
   
  And a question for WooAudio gurus, i've read  a lot of comments about how good 6SN7 tubes sounds in this amplifiers, but never read a comparison of 6FD7 tubes with 6SN7, My preffered drive tube right now is a pair of RCA 6FD7 fat bottle, silver top, from circa '56, I would love to know how it compares to best 6SN7 tubes or with Shuguang Treasure CV181z, could someone compare the two? I would like to see that, thanks!


----------



## nigeljames

Nice review. Planning on getting the 5u4g soon. Nice to know its looks like the right decision.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks DarKu, I'm also pleased that it seems I've made a good choice. Mine unfortunately seems to be delayed by DHL for an extra day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like it will be tomorrow now, darn it!


----------



## K_19

Thanks for the review.  I've always been wary of purchasing the EML 5U4G because of its reported emphasis on highs by many people; which is a worry since I have the HD800's as well.  But it seems like you had a great experience with the EML.
   
  How is the weight in the lower midrange/bass impact?  One thing I noticed about the Sophia is that it almost sounds Solid state in its sound and that I prefer more "tubey", lower midrange centric tubes for my HD800, like my current Mullard 5AR4/CV34.  This IMO gave the HD800 more balance by warming it up and making it sound less "sterile", and thus far remains my favourite.  Will the EML give that to me as well?  The driver tubes I have currently are pair of RCA 6DE7 vintage and pair of RCA 6EW7's.
   
  Just want to make sure here since EML is indeed quite expensive...


----------



## DarKu

You were right, to me Sophia definetely sounds like a SS thing, EML however have a tube bloom that Sophia does not have, bass impact is better, a lot better than Sophia and lower midrange too, with HD800 you may change the drive tubes as well, to me 6WE7 have great soundstage but bass is a bit dull, 6DE7 have narrower stage but a bit more dynamic, 6FD7 have the stage of 6EW7 but with more dynamics and definetely best bass of the three. For HD800 EML mesh and 6FD7 are very very good, other drive tubes works too, but i preffer 6FD7 due to better dynamics, better impact and bass. Now I wonder how 6FD7 compares to 6SN7 types (CV181 included)


----------



## dannie01

Thanks DarKu for a very nice and detail review.


----------



## TheWuss

[size=10pt]Currently waiting for the EML 5U4G myself, which I bought from another head-fier.  Got a great deal, btw.[/size]
[size=10pt]And, DarKu, your review is making it pretty hard to wait…  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I quite like the sound of my Sophia, but find its bass to be a little shallow when compared to other rectifiers I’ve tried.[/size]
[size=10pt]So, if the EML sounds like the Sophia, but with slightly better bass, then I will have arrived at the final rectifier for my Woo….[/size]


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


darku said:


> Now I wonder how 6FD7 compares to 6SN7 types (CV181 included)


 
   
  i've only heard two 6SN7 tubes with my Woo so far, but as others can attest to, they are a slight improvement over the 6DE7 type tubes.
  currently i'm listening to Ken Rad 6SN7GT, and it's a slightly better tube than even may favorite fat bottle 6FD7.  a bit bigger sounding, with more detail...
   
  and, best of all, there are tons of different options out there to tailor the sound with 6SN7 types.  (however, at a cost.)
  whereas with the 6DE7 types, i thought the differences were more on the subtle side of things.
  with the 6SN7 types, you have myriad possibilities...


----------



## che15

Very nicely explained Mr Brent. I agree with everything you said. My 3 pairs of 6SN7 sound better than all of my other 6DE7 type tubes


----------



## slayerizer

thanks for the review DarKu!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I noticed some positive endorsements for the Herbie's tube dampers.  I'm thinking about getting some and can't decide between the Standard UltraSonic models or the new UltraSonic Rx models.  A significant amount of $ can be saved going with the Standard model (about 40%).  Does anyone have experience with either / both and can give a recommendation?  Would you spend 40% more for the new model if buying quite a few of the dampers?  I have a combination of straight and bottle shaped tubes if that makes a difference in effectiveness .. sound, fit, etc  (TungSol 5998, GEC 6AS7G, Sylvania 7236, etc).   Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





> And a question for WooAudio gurus, i've read  a lot of comments about how good 6SN7 tubes sounds in this amplifiers, but never read a comparison of 6FD7 tubes with 6SN7, My preffered drive tube right now is a pair of RCA 6FD7 fat bottle, silver top, from circa '56, I would love to know how it compares to best 6SN7 tubes or with Shuguang Treasure CV181z, could someone compare the two? I would like to see that, thanks!


 

 Since receiving my EML 274B mesh (not directly comparable to the 5U4G but I bet they are close) I've gone through all my older pre-6SN7 tubes with mixed and mostly disappointed results.  So far the EML has been a superb upgrade with every 6SN7 tube I've tried with it, but it doesn't have the same magic with the 6DE7 and 6FD7.  My blackplate RCA 6FD7s were my favorite tubes before turning to 6SN7s and I thought they sounded quite disappointing with the 274B.  I honestly thought it sounded a bit better with my old 5R4 rectifier which was a shock.  The sound was unfocused and vocals felt veiled.  It cleaned up the harsh midrange on a pair of GE 6FD7 but the result was a boring tube with soft detail all around.  The biggest surprise were my Raytheon 6EW7s.  I pretty much hated these tubes before.  Thin sounding and metallic with no bass whatsoever previously, they transform on the EML into a balanced tube that resembles the 6SN7 sound quite a bit actually.  The highs were a bit cold but otherwise I would be able to listen to this tube on the EML.
   
  My opinion is probably strongly colored by the fact that I was coming off well regarded 6SN7 tubes and their superior detail and refinement, but I couldn't help but be disappointed by how my older 6DE7 family tubes fared with the EML.  I was expecting more, considering how deeply impressed I am with the improvement it had brought with all the 6SN7 tubes.  Bad synergy maybe, or maybe just my ears?


----------



## Cyberevo

[size=medium][size=medium]Hi, guys.
   
Just a reference.
For those people who prepare to buy EML 5U4G or 274B, I would like to recommend you to buy from TubeUSA or from Jack directly, even you are not living in States.
Dannie told me earlier that I can buy EML from Jac Music. ( Hi, Dannie, it is totally not your fault at all. )
The price of them is 170.20EUR, which is about 220USD, 10USD cheaper than TubeUSA.
However, I paid them one week ago but there was no response even I sent mails to them.
No response, no due-date, nothing replied.
   
Honestly, I don't think 10USD is worthy for this kind of endless waiting and suffering.....(I suppose SpudHarris had similar experience with Jac Music)
Especially, after reading the fantastic review of Darku  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
Edited (Sep/15 AM0700): 
Finally, I got the reply now.
Jac Music will send my EML in another 24hours.
They said they have lots of orders on hand now, and very difficult to pack things in time.
I suppose it takes at least 1 week for them to response your order and few more days for shipping.
So, the leadtime is about 2 weeks after your payment, for your reference.
   
Regards;
Ivan.
   ​[/size]

   ​[/size]


----------



## flaming_june

Good to know.  I'm actually preping to buy from TubeUSA in a few days.
   
  I'd appreciate if anyone can recommend some replacement/backup tubes for the WA6 drive/power tubes (stock: two 6DE7).
   
  Cheers,


----------



## gknix

Could someone direct me to tubeUSA order page for the EML 5u4g mesh? Not sure if I have the right site. They do ship internationally right?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





gknix said:


> Could someone direct me to tubeUSA order page for the EML 5u4g mesh? Not sure if I have the right site. They do ship internationally right?


 

 http://www.tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html
  To order: YGPM


----------



## hodgjy

I use the Guitar Amp Ultrasonic 50 on my power tubes.  Work well.  Saved $10 per damper.  It's just my opinion that if a tube is moderately microphonic, a cheap damper will help.  If it's super microphonic, nothing will totally cure it.  It's better to put money into a new tube rather than covering up the symptoms of a bad tube.
   
  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/guitar.htm
   

  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I noticed some positive endorsements for the Herbie's tube dampers.  I'm thinking about getting some and can't decide between the Standard UltraSonic models or the new UltraSonic Rx models.  A significant amount of $ can be saved going with the Standard model (about 40%).  Does anyone have experience with either / both and can give a recommendation?  Would you spend 40% more for the new model if buying quite a few of the dampers?  I have a combination of straight and bottle shaped tubes if that makes a difference in effectiveness .. sound, fit, etc  (TungSol 5998, GEC 6AS7G, Sylvania 7236, etc).   Thanks.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I use the Guitar Amp Ultrasonic 50 on my power tubes.  Work well.  Saved $10 per damper.  It's just my opinion that if a tube is moderately microphonic, a cheap damper will help.  If it's super microphonic, nothing will totally cure it.  It's better to put money into a new tube rather than covering up the symptoms of a bad tube.
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/guitar.htm


 

 Crap, I didn't even see those!  They look wider than the standard UltraSonic 50/40's that I bought, which would be nice because I have a difficult time getting my Ultrasonic 50's positioned correctly.  After loosening some of the tension the skinny dampers slide all over the ring.


----------



## SpudHarris

Oh man, it's been like Christmas day here in the Harris household today!! and I wanted to share my glee with my Woomates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  1st the EML 5U4G from JAC Music turns up! Boy it's tall......
   

   
  Then this lot turns up an hour or so later (with another £18 customs charge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  On the left are 6F8G Sylvanias and on the right are the 6F8G Tung-Sol Round Plates and also shown are Glenn's adapters for my WA6> 6F8G's
   

   
  Now here's the rub.... How do I subjectively compare everything?
   
  My initial thoughts are to leave my NOS Sylvania 6SN7's in the WA6 as I have been using them the most of late and just swap out the Sophia for the EML. But I could also leave the Sophia where it is and swap out the 6SN7's for the 6F8G's. I don't really want to just drop all the new stuff in or I won't know where the changes are, but it's soooooo tempting.
   
  What do you think?


----------



## realmassy

Hi,
  out of curiosity (I will get a Woo 3 next week), how much have you paid for customs?
  Thanks 
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Oh man, it's been like Christmas day here in the Harris household today!! and I wanted to share my glee with my Woomates
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SpudHarris

I bought mine off a fellow Head-fier who had already paid everything so I'm not sure what they'll charge you. Probably VAT of the declared value + the usual ParcelFarce Handling Fee (£8).


----------



## Cyberevo

Updated:
   
Finally, I got the reply now.
Jac Music will send my EML in another 24hours.
They said they have lots of orders on hand now, and very difficult to pack things in time.
I suppose it takes at least 1 week for them to response your order and few more days for shipping.
So, the leadtime is about 2 weeks after your payment, for your reference.
   
Regards;
Ivan.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Hi,
> out of curiosity (I will get a Woo 3 next week), how much have you paid for customs?
> Thanks


 

 Let me know how you like the wa3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking at getting one very soon!


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Oh man, it's been like Christmas day here in the Harris household today!! and I wanted to share my glee with my Woomates
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think you should buy another Woo 6 so you can do comparisons on setups on the go.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of course you'd need to have 2 sets of headphones as well.
   
  Is the EML fatter, slimmer or same as the Sophia, i.e would it fit with the treasures installed? An NNS setup (New New Stock)!
   
   
  Steve


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Let me know how you like the wa3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I will 
  I can compare the Woo 3 only against the Earmax, which does a wonderful job driving my HD650.
  I hope the Woo will be quieter than the Earmax though (there's a noticeable hum)
  By the way, anyone using the Woo 3 with the T1 or the HD800?


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> I think you should buy another Woo 6 so you can do comparisons on setups on the go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha you are a funny guy Steve. My Beyer T1's are here end of the month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just need another Woo 6 now.....
   
  The EML is slimmer but taller than the Sophia, I haven't tried any other tubes apart from the Sylvania Chrome Top 6SN7's yet but I think the trasures will fit better than with the Sophia. I will confirm that later (may even post a pic or two).


----------



## K_19

Just purchased the EML 5U4G from Jack.  Damn, it's expensive.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Nonetheless looking forward to it.


----------



## SpudHarris

Well I have had a little listen with the EML and can say that the diffrence between it and the Sophia are immediately noticeable. Don't get me wrong, I have been very happy with the Sophia until now and it still remains a great tube IMO. The EML sound just seems more solid, bigger and yes better in all aspects in comparrison. Yes they are expensive tubes but I believe in terms of reward this is money well spent.
   
  Oh and the other thing to mention is that it looks like a seriously beautiful tube, it's such quality that the Sophia looks quite cheap next to it. I've had so much fun with the Sophia I won't slate it because next to the EML it is the best of the rest I've tried. It will however be taking a back seat until such a time I find a tube that doesn't have synergy with the EML, it's still a very fine back up.......


----------



## jc9394

Give it about 80-100 hours on the EML, you will even more impress with it.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give it about 80-100 hours on the EML, you will even more impress with it.


 


 I already impressed by only 8-10 hours.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> The EML is slimmer but taller than the Sophia, I haven't tried any other tubes apart from the Sylvania Chrome Top 6SN7's yet but I think the trasures will fit better than with the Sophia. I will confirm that later (may even post a pic or two).


 
   
  Looks like you got one of the new redesigned ones with the slimmer glass.  I think the new ones look better actually.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> I already impressed by only 8-10 hours.







 Wow, you are easy to impress...


----------



## flaming_june

Well when I first got the sophia the difference was quite distinguishable.  Here's a kicker regarding the EML, I just ordered one from tubesusa and man, shipping to canada will cost 30usd.  Ouch.


----------



## SpudHarris

I'm so so weak! I had to try some of my other new tubes with the EML. I went straight to the top and tried the 6F8G Tung-Sol BGRP's. It's strange because I feel a little sad inside now I've tried them, I understand why people consider them amongst THE best out there but now I have them the only way up is a better amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The 6F8G Tung-Sol's are without doubt the finest tubes I have listened to but now I have to have the comfort of a back up pair in case anything happens to these.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm so so weak! I had to try some of my other new tubes with the EML. I went straight to the top and tried the 6F8G Tung-Sol BGRP's. It's strange because I feel a little sad inside now I've tried them, I understand why people consider them amongst THE best out there but now I have them the only way up is a better amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey mate, there is an alternative: stop reading head-fi and enjoy your music


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Same here - I only have the brown-base Sylvania 6SN7WGTA, but I think they sound terrific - relatively quite a bargain for NOS 6SN7's.


 

 Is this the same tube that you are mentioning? I am looking for a good starter pair of 6sn7's for my incoming amp, and would like an alternative the the shuguang treasures that jack recommends.


----------



## flaming_june

Those are for the WA6 Se right?


----------



## dmac03

I am hoping they would be a good fit for an wa22


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Is this the same tube that you are mentioning? I am looking for a good starter pair of 6sn7's for my incoming amp, and would like an alternative the the shuguang treasures that jack recommends.


 

 Mine are not exactly the same the Chrome top extends down the side about 1/4 or 1/3 of the lenght.


----------



## dmac03

I think I've seen those as well, but I may have a more difficulty purchasing them in pairs. Is them (or is the writing on the base rather than the tube)? So many choices!


----------



## Skylab

@ dmac03 - yes, those were the ones I was referring to.  Nice tubes.


----------



## matthewh133

Looking at buying myself a woo to hear for myself what all the hype is about. You think the WA6 is worth the extra $$ over the WA3? Tell me wooxperts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'd probably be upgrading the tubes so I guess stock ones don't matter too much.


----------



## jc9394

matthewh133 said:


> Looking at buying myself a woo to hear for myself what all the hype is about. You think the WA6 is worth the extra $$ over the WA3? Tell me wooxperts!
> 
> 
> 
> ...









 WA6 is much better for low impedance headphone like your AD900 and excellent with Senn HD6xx and HD800. The WA3 is great for high impedance but not well with low.


----------



## grokit

Not a "wooxpert" by any means but you certainly get what you pay for with these amps. The WA6 is worth it over the WA3, just like the WA6SE is worth it over the WA6, and so on... it really just depends on what your needs are.


----------



## gknix

Since WA6SE has both low and high impedence jacks, does it make it more viable for high impedance cans?
   
  I was thinking about a t1, but I read from several posts recently that they are not a great match, in particular, for the reason that WA6SE sounds more like a SS amp. But what if one uses the EML 5u4g mesh tube to make it sound more tube like and add the 6sn7 on the WA6SE? Does that synergise much better?


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Looking at buying myself a woo to hear for myself what all the hype is about. You think the WA6 is worth the extra $$ over the WA3? Tell me wooxperts!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This was my dilemma, but I like a tubey sound, my favourite headphones are the HD650 and I'm going to buy some DT880, 600ohm as well.
  Actually my heart wanted me to buy the Woo2


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I think I've seen those as well, but I may have a more difficulty purchasing them in pairs. Is them (or is the writing on the base rather than the tube)? So many choices!


 


 I think mine have wrting in both the base and the glass. In the glass they say '6SN7WGT". I'll try to take a picture tonight and post it.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





gknix said:


> Since WA6SE has both low and high impedence jacks, does it make it more viable for high impedance cans?
> 
> I was thinking about a t1, but I read from several posts recently that they are not a great match, in particular, for the reason that WA6SE sounds more like a SS amp. But what if one uses the EML 5u4g mesh tube to make it sound more tube like and add the 6sn7 on the WA6SE? Does that synergise much better?


 

 I don't have experience with the WA6SE just with my WA5-LE and my recabled T1. Right now I have EML 300B Mesh, Sylvania BB 6SN7WGT chrome tops and EML 5U4G Mesh in the WA5-LE and the T1 sound just plain magnificent.


----------



## musicman59

Anybody using Herbie's Rx Halos in your tubes? I bought them for all my tubes (power, driver and rectifier) and found out that actually my WA5-LE sound better without them in the driver tubes.
  Anybody had the same experience? With them the bass gets leaner and the body of the sound gets reduced loosing it's magic.


----------



## debitsohn

THE WOO HAS ENTERED THE DELIVERY TRUCK! i hope my wife signs for this sucker or else ill have to wait.


----------



## MrFisherman

Woo Hoo!   You're gonna love it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Woo Hoo! x2. For some odd reason I thought yesterday was Friday and that you would have been enjoying it already. Premature unboxing. I guess it's Friday again!.... Woo Hoo!


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Woo Hoo! x2. For some odd reason I thought yesterday was Friday and that you would have been enjoying it already. Premature unboxing. I guess it's Friday again!.... Woo Hoo!


 

 lol thanks! cant wait.
  
  EDIT: MADE MY WIFE TAKE A PIC OF THE BOX. SHE THINKS IM WEIRD.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> lol thanks! cant wait.
> 
> EDIT: MADE MY WIFE TAKE A PIC OF THE BOX. SHE THINKS IM WEIRD.


 

 debitsohn, it's almost time to drive home from work. Gentleman, start your engine. Drive carefully. On your way home remember to breathe once in a while. And have fun! Wow. Woo Audio is now printed on the box.
   
  P.S. Word to the wise: upon entering your home make sure you remember to acknowledge your wife and family--then haul arse and prepare to UNBOX!
   
  Sorry. I get excited as well.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> debitsohn, it's almost time to drive home from work. Gentleman, start your engine. Drive carefully. On your way home remember to breathe once in a while. And have fun! Wow. Woo Audio is now printed on the box.
> 
> P.S. Word to the wise: upon entering your home make sure you remember to acknowledge your wife and family--then haul arse and prepare to UNBOX!
> 
> Sorry. I get excited as well.


 


 oh. i was gona open the door, pick up the box, and walk to my computer. that woudlnt be good? haha jk. thanks for the tip! i will def. acknowledge my wife and children lol. ill set it up, let it run while eating dinner, then shower, then ignore my family with my headphones on.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I think I've seen those as well, but I may have a more difficulty purchasing them in pairs. Is them (or is the writing on the base rather than the tube)? So many choices!


 

 Here are mine. They have the lettering in the base but also in the glass.


----------



## Skylab

Musicman your 6SN7WGT's are even nicer than the WGTA's. I have some of those too.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Not a "wooxpert" by any means but you certainly get what you pay for with these amps. The WA6 is worth it over the WA3, just like the WA6SE is worth it over the WA6, and so on... it really just depends on what your needs are.


 

 Thanks for the response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too bad the WA6SE is out of my price range, but I am sure the WA6 would be a sufficient listening experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When you say "what your needs are", what exactly do you mean in regard to the differences between these two? Pure sound quality difference or is there something else?


----------



## TheWuss

my two cents, matthew?  the WA6 is worth every penny of the $620 that jack wu charges for it.
  it's a beautiful amp, and i'm still very happy with mine after 9 months.
   
  is the 6SE better?  by all accounts i've read, it is.
  but, until you hear one and are seduced by its sound, it's pretty hard to know what you're missing with the "humble" WA6.
   
  which is why i'll own the WA6 until, oh, can jam 2011.


----------



## matthewh133

Haha thanks very much! Maybe I am fortunate in the fact that if I order the WA6 and chuck a couple new tubes in it, I won't know any better as there's no where really here to try out anything else!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Musicman your 6SN7WGT's are even nicer than the WGTA's. I have some of those too.


 

 Thanks Rob. They are my favorite even more than my TungSol BG/RP 6SN7GT and Tungsol BG/RP 6F8G.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Is this the same tube that you are mentioning? I am looking for a good starter pair of 6sn7's for my incoming amp, and would like an alternative the the shuguang treasures that jack recommends.


 

 I got this tube when I ordered my WA22 and I did not like it.  I had it mated with the Sofia and Shuquang Treasures, and it just did not do it for me.  I took them out and put the stock RCA 6080's back in and the magic happened.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I just ordered a regular ol' wa22. He stated the lead time was 3-4 weeks, but that time frame has come and gone. I guess since its not here, I have more time to research other things I want.


 

 Don't give up on it.  You will love it.


----------



## debitsohn

The WA2 is here!!
   
  so i get it all up and running, leave it to burn in for a lil while i go shower. its so beautiful.... come out of the shower. daughter is giving my blackberry a bath so i handle that. eat dinner. walk to my computer and should be hearing music coming from my t1 but i dont. i look, *the LED is dead and the two bigger tubes are no longer glowing. the 4 smaller tubes are still lit*. tried out two NOS tubes Clayton sent me, nothing.  tried a different power cord, nothing, checked the fuse, it looked good but not sure. after i re-inserted the fuse (where the power cord plugs in) the LED actually lit up for 2 seconds and i was so happy, and then it died again.  its a cruel, cruel joke. lol
   
  emailed jack. waiting for instructions. will see if radio shack has the fuse i need and i really hope that is the issue, but............ what a letdown.  anyone have any experience with something like this?


----------



## Xcalibur255

If the circuit functioned again for a few seconds then the fuse shouldn't be blown.  You might want to open the bottom plate and check to see if a capacitor has ruptured.  Sad business either way, and I hope you are up and running again soon.  An unfortunate reminder that these amps are not quite as hands-off as a solid state job, though I think we can agree it is worth it.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Here are mine. They have the lettering in the base but also in the glass.


 


 Thanks for the pics musicman. I will keep my eyes peeled.


----------



## debitsohn

witht he help with clayton, we have come to the conclusion that the fuse is blown.  ill go to radio shack when it opens in 2 hours and go pick up a new one. hope thats it!! thanks clayton, youre awesome!


----------



## Skylab

mikemalter said:


> I got this tube when I ordered my WA22 and I did not like it.  I had it mated with the Sofia and Shuquang Treasures, and it just did not do it for me.  I took them out and put the stock RCA 6080's back in and the magic happened.







 Not sure I understood this - the 6SN7and the 6080 cannot be used interchangeably.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Not sure I understood this - the 6SN7and the 6080 cannot be used interchangeably.


 

 Sky,
   
  You are correct, and I was in error.  It looked like the discussion was about power tubes, but it was about drivers.  In my case I got the Sylvania 7236 replacements for the RCA 6080.  And I was commenting that I did not like how the WA22 sounded with the Sylvania tubes.
   
  Thanks for catching that.
   
  Mike


----------



## hodgjy

I don't care much for the sound of the Sylvania 7236 much either.  It's a decent tube, but sounds kind of uninspiring to me.  There are much better power tubes out there for less money.  Even the cheapo RCA 6AS7G is a wonderful tube.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> In my case I got the Sylvania 7236 replacements for the RCA 6080.  And I was commenting that I did not like how the WA22 sounded with the Sylvania tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Is there a power tube you like with the WA22?


----------



## jc9394

Did you tried TS5998 or GEC6080?


----------



## mikemalter

No.  What is your opinion?

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did you tried TS5998 or GEC6080?


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys I got a problem with my WA3+. I was listening to my WA3+ today and suddenly the Right channel went out. I turned the unit off, swapped out both 6N1P's for my Bugel Boy's and the problem persisted. I powered my unit off again and swapped the power tube out and put in a another one, but the same thing still happens. Crap what the hell went wrong!! Everything still lights up and both tubes glow. I don't get any burnt or funky smell from the unit at all.
   
  So please any help is appreciated.
   
*EDIT*: I got it all sorted out!! I was using a cheap cable and swapped it out for another and it worked again, so that means the cable failed!!


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

I've noticed with both of my Grado cables if you push them in all the way into the WA6, you can get channel imbalance; just pull it out a smidge, and it's fine.  My non-Grado headphone cables don't have this problem, so I'm guessing they must be just a hair long, or oddly shaped somehow from the other brands and when using the type of plug that the WA6 has.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I like GEC 6AS7G best and TS 5998 2nd best of the tubes I have.  I also have the Sylvania 7236.  Haven't used them since getting the GEC and TS tubes.


----------



## hodgjy

I have the WA3, which uses the same tubes as the 22.  I love the Tung-Sol 5998, the Tung-Sol 7236, and the Tung-Sol 6AS7G.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Is there a power tube you like with the WA22?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have the WA3, which uses the same tubes as the 22.  I love the Tung-Sol 5998, the Tung-Sol 7236, and the Tung-Sol 6AS7G.


 

 I recently swapped a set of Sylvania 7236 power tubes for a matched pair of NOS TS 7236's in my WA22, and to me I have gained a bit of smoothness and warmth but lost some upper-mid resolution. For some reason I was expecting more with the Tung Sols. Not sure yet which I prefer actually, I will give them more time to settle in, they have less than 50 hours on them. 
   
  Maybe it has to do with the rectifier/driver tubes I am using, which are both Shuguangs. Does Shuguang make a power tube for the WA22? That would be interesting, an all-Shuguang setup. 
   
  I am also limited on balanced cans ATM because of headphone/cable upgrading, but that will be rectified soon


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> No.  What is your opinion?









 I will let you know late next week, my WA22 has a little issue. It is in Jack's magic hands now, I should get it back sometime next week.


----------



## jc9394

Got the 6SN7 to 6DE7 from Glenn today, the build is excellent, much better than I expected. Swap my flavor 6FD7 with the Treasure I got in earlier, excellent details and vocals but not as dynamic as 6FD7. I think I need to get used to the new sound signature.

 Is it fine the Treasure touching the Sophia or EML rectifier? I'm using metal base GZ34 now to avoid they touch each other. For WA6/WA6SE owners, this adapter is a must have.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will let you know late next week, my WA22 has a little issue. It is in Jack's magic hands now, I should get it back sometime next week.


 

 What happened? What magic does Jack need to perform on your WA22? Will the WA22 be modded so that it will be able to fly you to the moon?


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> What happened? What magic does Jack need to perform on your WA22? Will the WA22 be modded so that it will be able to fly you to the moon?









 Both Hong Kong Post and USPS gave it a free massage that WA22 cannot handle, a loose wire cause a short. It is all set already but Jack is tighten up the parts and test it couple days before shipping back to me. It is fully modded already but I can ask Jack about fly me to the moon or better yet, fly Diana Krall to me.


----------



## Surreal.

Hey guys, just wanted to subscribe to this thread. I just bought a Woo 6 (with Sophia) from a Head-Fi'er and wanted to keep up with all the rolling options, tips, etc.
   
  So far I'm nothing but impressed with this piece of equipment. It is built like a tank! I seriously wasn't expecting the heftiness of it. 
   
  The craftsmanship is fantastic though, you can tell each one is made with the highest quality in mind.
   
  I'll snap a pic of my desk in a bit. But so far it's fitting right in...
   
  Edit - Here's some:
   

   
   
  And then with the light off (I love the glows):
   

   
   
  Quality isn't too good. Used my cell phone. But it will have to do. 
   
  (Slightly off-topic: Can anyone recommend a good starter DAC that will pair nicely with the WA6? Maybe throw a few suggestions in each range, the $100-200, 200-300, and 300-400 range. I would like to see what options I have available. I think it's better here with all the Woo experts. TIA)
   
  I've also heard of the magical synergies with Senns HD6x0's and Grados (read the first 50 pages this morning (serious) then realized what I was doing, hah). Who knows how long it will be before I decide to take a plunge on one of those. Ah, Head-Fi, burning holes in wallets since '01.


----------



## jc9394

Try gamma2 or pico DAC, I prefer the gamma2 due to additional input. Both are excellent DAC and pair very well with WA6.


----------



## debitsohn

and back to jack it goes for repair... it was like a dream.. or should i say nightmare.  sent him pics of the  internals and he didnt see anything wrong with it. i hope its something minor and gets back to me asap.


----------



## mikemalter

How do you decide what to listen to?  Do you swap for music, mood?

  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have the WA3, which uses the same tubes as the 22.  I love the Tung-Sol 5998, the Tung-Sol 7236, and the Tung-Sol 6AS7G.


----------



## mikemalter

VERY sorry to hear.  What happened?

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will let you know late next week, my WA22 has a little issue. It is in Jack's magic hands now, I should get it back sometime next week.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> and back to jack it goes for repair... it was like a dream.. or should i say nightmare.  sent him pics of the  internals and he didnt see anything wrong with it. i hope its something minor and gets back to me asap.


 

 Not that we're experts over or anything like that, but could you post those internals that you sent Jack. Maybe someone will see something out of the ordinary. If not, internals are always great to see what changes, if any, that Jack has made to the WA2.
   
  Wow, even on it side, resigned to a foam sarcophagus to be safely returned to Jack, it looks great. Nice sax-eeee silver model!


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> and back to jack it goes for repair... it was like a dream.. or should i say nightmare.  sent him pics of the  internals and he didnt see anything wrong with it. i hope its something minor and gets back to me asap.


 

 Sorry to hear your WA2 was DOA.


----------



## balderon

Recent addition of NOS TSRP's. I have only about 16 hours burn-in and very pleased with the sound.


----------



## dmac03

Very nice pics! How do you compare the legendary tsrp's to what you've used in the past (and where'd you get them)?


----------



## flaming_june

Please!  Elaborate on how you like that set up and how we all can share in its glory!


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Very nice pics! How do you compare the legendary tsrp's to what you've used in the past (and where'd you get them)?


 

 X2


----------



## jc9394

X3, please give me an excuse to order a pair.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Very nice pics! How do you compare the legendary tsrp's to what you've used in the past (and where'd you get them)?


 
   
  X4.
   
  Commentary... on the legendary NOS TSRP's? (looks for a seat) Will I have time to make tea?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> and back to jack it goes for repair... it was like a dream.. or should i say nightmare.  sent him pics of the  internals and he didnt see anything wrong with it. i hope its something minor and gets back to me asap.


 
   
  Sorry to hear about your experience. To help ease your wait, could you tell us the very first track you plan on playing to audition your WA2 out of the box? My initial track was:
   
  Title:  Holidays
  Artist:  Abraham Laboriel
  Album:  Dear Friends
  Genre:  Jazz
  Format:  AIFF
  Time:  5:10
  Date:  1993
   
  And last night, I celebrated reaching 500 hours on my WA6 SE with the groundbreaking track:
   
  Title:  Chameleon
  Artist:  Herbie Hancock
  Album:  Head Hunters
  Genre:  Jazz
  Format:  Apple Lossless 96/24 vinyl rip
  Time:  15:44
  Date:  1973
   
  Perhaps, others can share in your wait and reveal their maiden voyage. Best of luck!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Both Hong Kong Post and USPS gave it a free massage that WA22 cannot handle, a loose wire cause a short. It is all set already but Jack is tighten up the parts and test it couple days before shipping back to me. It is fully modded already but I can ask Jack about fly me to the moon or better yet, fly Diana Krall to me.


 


 A "free full body massage" that never expect, Jack is very helpful on the issue and have it fixed promptly, sorry about the hassle caused, John.
   
  Try some Patricia Barber beside Diana Krall, both are great.


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  The 5998 is the best all-rounder, so it gets the most play.  I usually listen to several genres during one session, so this tube does well with them.  Good warmth, bass, detail, and speed.  When I know I'll only be listening to faster music, like metal, the 7236 is nice.  It is faster, has more bass, but isn't quite as warm.  The 6AS7G is wonderful at acoustic and orchestral music.  It doesn't have the speed of the other tubes, but it's the warmest and most seductive of the group.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> How do you decide what to listen to?  Do you swap for music, mood?


----------



## mikemalter

I'm printing this out and keeping it as my reference guide for my next phase of tube rolling.  Thank you for being so clear and precise.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Exactly.  The 5998 is the best all-rounder, so it gets the most play.  I usually listen to several genres during one session, so this tube does well with them.  Good warmth, bass, detail, and speed.  When I know I'll only be listening to faster music, like metal, the 7236 is nice.  It is faster, has more bass, but isn't quite as warm.  The 6AS7G is wonderful at acoustic and orchestral music.  It doesn't have the speed of the other tubes, but it's the warmest and most seductive of the group.


----------



## hodgjy

You're welcome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm printing this out and keeping it as my reference guide for my next phase of tube rolling.  Thank you for being so clear and precise.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The 6AS7G is wonderful at acoustic and orchestral music.  It doesn't have the speed of the other tubes, but *it's the warmest and most seductive of the group.*


 

 Yes. Thank you. I agree--couldn't have described it as well. I love my RCA 6AS7G. Gordon Lightfoot and Joan Baez really sound wonderfully _vibrant and alive_ with this tube. In fact, I think I'll put on some Gordon right now--Affair on 8th Avenue.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I found the following description on head-fi.  Unfortunately I lost the original link and don't remember whose impressions these were but I tend to agree.
   
  Lush/Warm < 
 > Lean/Bright
   
  6AS7G  
   5998    7236     6080


----------



## WindyCityCy

well that didn't post the way I had wanted but I think you get the picture


----------



## balderon

Quote:  





> Very nice pics! How do you compare the legendary tsrp's to what you've used in the past (and where'd you get them)?


 
  Quote:  





> Please!  Elaborate on how you like that set up and how we all can share in its glory!


 
  Quote:  





> X2


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X3, please give me an excuse to order a pair.


 

 The TSRP is clean, fast, wide bandwidth, great resolution, the best in everything. So far I am liking these more than the Shuagang CV181-Z. I must admit I have not reached the recommended 300 hour burn-in time for the Shuagang. I will complete the burn-in and compare both one day. The Sylvania/Dumont 6FD7's has a similar sound and is a distant second on my fun meter. On an aesthetic note the TSRP does not dwarf the Princess.
   
  NOS can be found on FleaBay although a tad bit pricey.


----------



## HeatFan12

Great pics guys...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sorry to hear about your WA2 debit...Jack will sort it out for you.
   
  @ balderon- Sorry, this is a large thread so my apologies if I missed it.  Those adapters for 6SN7 can only be used in the WA6?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





balderon said:


> The TSRP is clean, fast, wide bandwidth, great resolution, the best in everything. So far I am liking these more than the Shuagang CV181-Z. I must admit I have not reached the recommended 300 hour burn-in time for the Shuagang. I will complete the burn-in and compare both one day. The Sylvania/Dumont 6FD7's has a similar sound and is a distant second on my fun meter. On an aesthetic note the TSRP does not dwarf the Princess.
> 
> NOS can be found on FleaBay although a tad bit pricey.


 

 How do you like the treble?  Is it airy sounding or more dense?  Part of the reason I refuse to buy this tube is because I'm afraid it will sound just like the t-plate tung sol with a more sweet midrange.  Which would make for a wonderful tube, but definitely not worth the money when the t-plate can be had for less than $50 usually.  The thing I dislike about the t-plate tung sol most is the boxed in sounding vocals.  They need more air to "project" so to speak so if the round plate does this then that would probably make them worth the money.  If that is what they sound like then it makes them a cross between the sylvania bad boy and the t-plate tung sol which would be the perfect tube in my opinion.  I love my bad boys to death so far, but the tung sol beats them in detail and resolution (as does the RCA greyglass now that the EML 274b is commanding them) and it'd be wonderful to have both qualities in one tube.


----------



## flaming_june

I didn't know the shuguang cv181 or tsrp can fit or work in a wooa6


----------



## gknix

@flaming_june  There's an adaptor available then glenn ( can't recall username) can make so that the wa6 can use 6sn7 tubes.


----------



## flaming_june

Interesting.  I was thinking that it might have been the case today while searching for tubes on ebay.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





			
				balderon said:
			
		

> The TSRP is clean, fast, wide bandwidth, great resolution, the best in everything. So far I am liking these more than the Shuagang CV181-Z. I must admit I have not reached the recommended 300 hour burn-in time for the Shuagang. I will complete the burn-in and compare both one day. The Sylvania/Dumont 6FD7's has a similar sound and is a distant second on my fun meter. On an aesthetic note the TSRP does not dwarf the Princess.
> 
> NOS can be found on FleaBay although a tad bit pricey.


 

 Thanks, I'm going to order a pair soon.
   
  Shameless plug, listing my pair of Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z that I got Skylab earlier this month to fund this.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/513493/fs-4-feet-feet-scscag-rca-to-rca-shuguang-treasure-cv181-z#post_6940117


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, I'm going to order a pair soon.
> 
> Shameless plug, listing my pair of Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z that I got Skylab earlier this month to fund this.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/513493/fs-4-feet-feet-scscag-rca-to-rca-shuguang-treasure-cv181-z#post_6940117


 






 Aren't the TSRP about $350 A PAIR!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Aren't the TSRP about $350 A PAIR!


 


 I bought a pair for $400!


----------



## dannie01

And found a pair these beast for over $600.


----------



## jc9394

Not spending $600 for a pair of tubes, I think $400 is the max I will pay...


----------



## dannie01

I'm happy with the sound of TSRP and that's why not going to dig deeper. But the price of those good tubes will getting higher and higher. Sigh.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I bought a pair for $400!


 

 I was going to say $400 a pair but I thought that I'd be a little conservative in my estimates. I wonder how much there were a year ago. I wonder if anyone knew about TSRP a year ago. I have some 1944 Raytheon VT99 w/ Glenn's adapters and I got them for $40 a pair last year (the tubes and not the adapters). They're probably not as good as the TSRP. I wouldn't know--I've never owned a pair of TSRP. Rollin' rollin' rollin'. Keep those tubes a-rollin'.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not spending $600 for a pair of tubes, I think $400 is the max I will pay...


 

 thats hiliarious.


----------



## dmac03

Just for the record, how long (in hrs) will the average pair of nos 6sn7's last. I'm sure this will vary on a bunch of things, but it would be hard for me to justify paying $400 for a pair of tubes that will only last a few years.


----------



## hodgjy

The most I've paid for a single tube is $38, and that was a little too rich for me.  I'm glad my WA3 likes tubes that are on the cheaper side.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not spending $600 for a pair of tubes, I think $400 is the max I will pay...


----------



## MrFisherman

In that price range I like the MF V-Dac.  I haven't actually used mine with my WA6, I've got a CIA VDA-2 for that.  But I do have the V-DAC running to my Asgard.  Works well.  Good price.
   
  Edit:
   
  I probably should have quoted the person I was responding to.  I'd like to go to sleep now.  Please?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> I probably should have quoted the person I was responding to.  I'd like to go to sleep now.  Please?


 

 Goodnight MrFisherman. Until tomorrow--when you attach yourself to your Woo once again.


----------



## St3ve

Evenin' all.
   
  I've learned an important lesson over the last couple of months:
   
  '_A man and his Woo are not easily parted_'
   
  To summarise, I recently (impulse) bought an SPL Phonitor, a fantastic amp, and have felt a bit pressured financially. As a result, I (foolishly) have tried to sell my WA6 twice over the last couple of months, but have ended up withdrawing the listings in short order both times. The phonitor is an impressive amp - loads of power for the HD800 and insane crossfeed, but my WA6 has a special something about it, a certain something in the midrange which only tubes seem able to do. I just did a direct AB between the two, and the tonality of the WA6 (with the Princess and some RCA 6FD7 installed) is pretty special. Guess I've learned that sometimes you don't always appreciate something 'till it's almost gone (It's no longer going anywhere).
   
  P.S you lot have been busy with all these new tube rolling options, I have loads of new things to be trying it seems.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I'm happy with the sound of TSRP and that's why not going to dig deeper. But the price of those good tubes will getting higher and higher. Sigh.


 

 X2. My next upgrade is likely better cans.


----------



## MrFisherman

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Goodnight MrFisherman. Until tomorrow--when you attach yourself to your Woo once again.


 

 I haven't seen my Woo since that first day I got it. Work made me fly out the very next day and now I can't get home.  And they won't let me sleep either.
   
  Grumble.  Grumble.  Foul expletive.  Grumble.
   
  This whole work thing is getting in the way of my audio addiction.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Great pics guys...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The WA6-SE adapters need a resistor and bypass capacitor in the adapter
> and the Wa6 does not so the adapters are different.
> Glenn


 

 Glenn makes several adapters and is the best person to ask.


----------



## fhuang

if tube can cost that much, i have to think again.....i was thinking getting a wa5 le before....
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I'm happy with the sound of TSRP and that's why not going to dig deeper. But the price of those good tubes will getting higher and higher. Sigh.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mrfisherman said:


> I haven't seen my Woo since that first day I got it. Work made me fly out the very next day and now I can't get home.  And they won't let me sleep either.
> 
> Grumble.  Grumble.  Foul expletive.  Grumble.
> 
> This whole work thing is getting in the way of my audio addiction.


 
   
  Ah, but my good MrFisherman: you need this Work Thing to enjoy your audio addiction. Yes?


----------



## jc9394

st3ve said:


> Evenin' all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...









 X2, I totally know what you meant. I'm too tried few times to sell my WA6 and every time I end up withdrawing it. It is extremely hard to part with an Woo amp, especially I know I will no longer able to get a maxxed WA6 anymore. Let's hope my incoming WA22 will blow my WA6 out of water, so I can finally part it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, I totally know what you meant. I'm too tried few times to sell my WA6 and every time I end up withdrawing it. It is extremely hard to part with an Woo amp, especially I know I will no longer able to get a maxxed WA6 anymore. Let's hope my incoming WA22 will blow my WA6 out of water, so I can finally part it.


 
   
  Let it be said that the aforementioned WA22 will blow your WA6 out of water and place it into orbit whereupon it shall not reenter the earth's atmosphere for another 37 Saturn Centuries.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Let it be said that the aforementioned WA22 will blow your WA6 out of water and place it into orbit whereupon it shall not reenter the earth's atmosphere for another 37 Saturn Centuries.







 I know in balanced mode, it will blow my WA6 into the space but what about SE mode?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know in balanced mode, it will blow my WA6 into the space but what about SE mode?


 
   
  I don't own balanced headphones and my WA22 maxed in SE mode still sends me into orbit way above my WA6 w/pdps.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I don't own balanced headphones and my WA22 maxed in SE mode still sends me into orbit way above my WA6 w/pdps.









 Sweet, this is exactly I love to heard. Did you mod the WA22 yourself? I know Jack is not offering any parts upgrade for WA22. 

 What tubes you are using with WA22?


----------



## dmac03

I finally got the email from woo audio that my wa22 will be shipped out tomorrow.
   
  Not to go off topic, but I will only be using it with SE headhpones, also.
   
  The problem is that I need to find a balances source ASAP! Any suggestions?
   
  We are having a small meet in a couple months and that would be a great time to try out different sources. The dilemma is: should I roll tubes before I have my permanent source?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sweet, this is exactly I love to heard. Did you mod the WA22 yourself? I know Jack is not offering any parts upgrade for WA22.
> 
> What tubes you are using with WA22?


 

 Oh shoots--misinformation. I didn't not get it modded. Since it came with a stepped attenuator I always think it's been modded. So--The stock WA22 is way above the WA6.
   
  The tubes that I am using are the EML 5U4G mesh plate, Shuguang Treasure Series CV181 and Mullard 6080. But let me tell you, when my WA22 had a Tung-Sol 5U4G, RCA 6SN7 and RCA 6AS7G Black Plates, it still outshone the WA6.


----------



## che15

Has anyone tried a solid state rectifier on their WA6 ?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Has anyone tried a solid state rectifier on their WA6 ?


 

 I've tried the 5Z4 metal tube if that's what you mean. I've asked Jack and posted the question of whether it is a good idea or not to use a metal rectifier and had no response so I experimented myself. I removed it after about 10 minutes because I wasn't quite sure if this was okay or not. My WA6 is still ticking and making good music after that experiment. It was in too short of a time for an opinion on its sonic capabilities though.
   
  EDIT: Sorry, I just realized that a metal tube is not the same as a Yellow Jacket which is a Solid State Rectifier for 5AR4, 5U4, 5Y3 Tubes.


----------



## Toad

So I haven't bought anything in a while and have been getting an itch to try a new pair of headphones.
   
  I have a maxed WA6 with pdps and am looking to buy either the LCD-2 or T1. Currently I use my RS1 and I really like those (I also mainly listen to rock music). Sooo, which headphone do you guys think will synergize best with my WA6? Eventually I see myself upgrading to a WA22, but as long as all I have is my RS1, I just don't see that being a worthwhile upgrade until I get a better set of cans that could actually put the amp to use. Soo enough rambling, which headphones would you guys recommend for a WA6 playing mainly rock music T1 or LCD-2?
   
  Thanks!
   
  Also, sorry for asking what I'm sure has to be a repeat question, but searching for T1 comparisons with the WA6 or LCD-2 didn't turn up much


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





toad said:


> So I haven't bought anything in a while and have been getting an itch to try a new pair of headphones.
> 
> I have a maxed WA6 with pdps and am looking to buy either the LCD-2 or T1. Currently I use my RS1 and I really like those (I also mainly listen to rock music). Sooo, which headphone do you guys think will synergize best with my WA6? Eventually I see myself upgrading to a WA22, but as long as all I have is my RS1, I just don't see that being a worthwhile upgrade until I get a better set of cans that could actually put the amp to use. Soo enough rambling, which headphones would you guys recommend for a WA6 playing mainly rock music T1 or LCD-2?
> 
> ...


 

 I prefer the LCD-2 over the T1 when using the ZDT amp.  The LCD-2 work well with my maxed WA6 and PDPS with Sylvania VT-231/Princess 274b, but I didn't get to try the T1 with the WA6 because I didn't bring it to the last meet when I tried the T1.  I thought the T1 were well balanced, but a little bland and lifeless when compared side by side with the LCD-2, HE-5 LE, or HD800.  If the T1 were a $600 phone, I might own them and see if I like them more after living with them, but the going rate is too high for me now.


----------



## flaming_june

Hmm.. I heard good things about T1 and woo audio products.  Maybe thats the reason why WA.com sell them.


----------



## Toad

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I prefer the LCD-2 over the T1 when using the ZDT amp.  The LCD-2 work well with my maxed WA6 and PDPS with Sylvania VT-231/Princess 274b, but I didn't get to try the T1 with the WA6 because I didn't bring it to the last meet when I tried the T1.  I thought the T1 were well balanced, but a little bland and lifeless when compared side by side with the LCD-2, HE-5 LE, or HD800.  If the T1 were a $600 phone, I might own them and see if I like them more after living with them, but the going rate is too high for me now.


 
  Thanks for the info, Larry. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. I haven't been to this site in a while (coming here too often isn't healthy for my wallet), so I'm a bit out of touch with what is current and just trying to catch up now. It seems LCD-2 is pretty popular and well reviewed until people start talking about stax, at which point it then becomes a terrible headphone. The only thing that really has me worried about the lcd2 is how uncomfortable people make it out to seem, but hopefully I'll be able to find that out for myself soon enough. Thanks again for the info


----------



## spagetka

I plan to buy within a month beautiful black 5LE with Teflon tube sockets so I would like to ask how good/bad is the stock tubes that come along with this amp. Are some of them / all of them so bad that there is a need to replace them immediately? Yes, the next step will be the tube rolling - after I become familiar with the whole system. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.


----------



## jc9394

Woohoo...
   
  Jack Wu of Woo Audio sent 1 FedEx Home Delivery package(s).
   
  This shipment is scheduled to be sent on 09/21/2010.
   
 [size=9pt]
 Status: Picked up
[/size]


----------



## mikemalter

Yeah!

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woohoo...
> 
> Jack Wu of Woo Audio sent 1 FedEx Home Delivery package(s).
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woohoo...
> 
> Jack Wu of Woo Audio sent 1 FedEx Home Delivery package(s).
> 
> ...


 
  Woo hoo hoo hoo! Compared to San Francisco, which is where I live, Boston's just a hop, skip, and a jump from Woo Audio. If you're inclined to post internals we'd love to see how it might differ from the other WA22's.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Woo hoo hoo hoo! Compared to San Francisco, which is where I live, Boston's just a hop, skip, and a jump from Woo Audio. If you're inclined to post internals we'd love to see how it might differ from the other WA22's.


 

 I will post the internal pic.  Just gives you a head's up, this is not a normal WA22.  It is heavily modded by the fearless OP.


----------



## dmac03

I think there are already pics quite a few pages back, unless additional mods have been made.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I think there are already pics quite a few pages back, unless additional mods have been made.


 

 Jack said he will rearrange those big ass caps...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





toad said:


> So I haven't bought anything in a while and have been getting an itch to try a new pair of headphones.
> 
> I have a maxed WA6 with pdps and am looking to buy either the LCD-2 or T1. Currently I use my RS1 and I really like those (I also mainly listen to rock music). Sooo, which headphone do you guys think will synergize best with my WA6? Eventually I see myself upgrading to a WA22, but as long as all I have is my RS1, I just don't see that being a worthwhile upgrade until I get a better set of cans that could actually put the amp to use. Soo enough rambling, which headphones would you guys recommend for a WA6 playing mainly rock music T1 or LCD-2?
> 
> ...


 

 I own the T1 recabled and just tried the LCD-2 in my WA5-LE (Have not tried the WA6) and I personally prefer the T1. I am in the waiting list for the lCD-2 but still on the fence about buying them. I thought the LCD-2 sounded better with my Rudistor RP010B.
   
  IMO the T1 and the WA5-LE are a great match to the point that flip floped my numeber 1 and 2 prefered headphones (T1 and HD800). I personally have not heared anything better that the T1 with the WA5-LE so far but just my opinion based on my sound and musical taste.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Jack said he will rearrange those big ass caps...


 
   
  That's incredible. Jack is actually performing work on his amp that was heavily modded by someone else? He is one cool guy. That would be great to see how he rearranges those humongous black dynamite-stick caps. Boy, I wasn't kidding when I suggested that it just may blow your WA6 into orbit.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> I plan to buy within a month beautiful black 5LE with Teflon tube sockets so I would like to ask how good/bad is the stock tubes that come along with this amp. Are some of them / all of them so bad that there is a need to replace them immediately? Yes, the next step will be the tube rolling - after I become familiar with the whole system. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.


 

 I would not even bother with the stock tubes. When I received muy WA5-LE jack sent the wrong upgraded rectifier tubes (Sophia instead of EML) so I sent the tubes back and in the mean time I received the EML I installed the stock rectifier tubes. The sound was so harsh that immediatly went out and bought a pair of NOS RCA to use in the mean time and keep them a back up.
   
  I have not tried the stock driver and power tubes but I am assuming wil be at the same quality level as the rectifiers. Do yourself a fvor and invest in some good tubes. You will not regret it. That amp is magic with nice tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's incredible. Jack is actually performing work on his amp that was heavily modded by someone else? He is one cool guy. That would be great to see how he rearranges those humongous black dynamite-stick caps. Boy, I wasn't kidding when I suggested that it just may blow your WA6 into orbit.


 

 Yup. Jack is super cool guy.  Totally do me a flavor to fixing the WA22 and he did not charge me an arm and a leg too. 
   
*Super thanks to Jack Wu.*


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's incredible. Jack is actually performing work on his amp that was heavily modded by someone else? He is one cool guy. That would be great to see how he rearranges those humongous black dynamite-stick caps. Boy, I wasn't kidding when I suggested that it just may blow your WA6 into orbit.


 




  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yup. Jack is super cool guy.  Totally do me a flavor to fixing the WA22 and he did not charge me an arm and a leg too.
> 
> *Super thanks to Jack Wu.*


 


 Wow! That's cool. Please do take some pics to show how Jack rearranges those "humongous black dynamite-stick caps". He's really an amazingly good guy always help to resolve the problem with wonderful customer service.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will post the internal pic.  Just gives you a head's up, this is not a normal WA22.  It is heavily modded by the fearless OP.


 

 And a fearless guy is brave enough to have it a new home, too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> And a fearless guy is brave enough to have it a new home, too.


 

 How's the WA5LE mod coming along?


----------



## dannie01

Will order some BG NHs and Mills resistors following the V-Caps.


----------



## jc9394

Please do post pics... we all love the Woo internal pics.


----------



## dannie01

No problem but please show yours when the WA22 received, can't wait to learn more for Jack's re-arrangement.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No problem but please show yours when the WA22 received, can't wait to learn more for Jack's re-arrangement.


 

 Will do, it should be here by the end of the week.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Will do, it should be here by the end of the week.


 

*GREAT!*


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> *GREAT!*


 
  Yeah we're all waiting lol


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yeah we're all waiting lol


 

 Yeah. It's like the *WA22-Xtreme!*


----------



## dmac03

How much do you wanna bet that jack tried out that modded wa22 after he fixed it to compare to his stock units.


----------



## jc9394

1 cent


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Woo hoo hoo hoo! Compared to San Francisco, which is where I live, Boston's just a hop, skip, and a jump from Woo Audio. If you're inclined to post internals we'd love to see how it might differ from the other WA22's.







 You can say that again, according to tracking, it will arrive tomorrow...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You can say that again, according to tracking, it will arrive tomorrow...


 

 Then I'LL SAY IT AGAIN!: Woo hoo hoo hoo! Compared to San Francisco, which is where I live, Boston's just a hop, skip, and a jump from Woo Audio. If you're inclined to post internals we'd love to see how it might differ from the other WA22's.
   
  You LUCKY DAWG, you!
   
  I am having a celebratory beer on your behalf.
  Cheers!


----------



## balderon

Color me jealous! I trust you will not have a evening news helicopter videotaping the un-boxing?


----------



## spagetka

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I would not even bother with the stock tubes. When I received muy WA5-LE jack sent the wrong upgraded rectifier tubes (Sophia instead of EML) so I sent the tubes back and in the mean time I received the EML I installed the stock rectifier tubes. The sound was so harsh that immediatly went out and bought a pair of NOS RCA to use in the mean time and keep them a back up.
> 
> I have not tried the stock driver and power tubes but I am assuming wil be at the same quality level as the rectifiers. Do yourself a fvor and invest in some good tubes. You will not regret it. That amp is magic with nice tubes.


 


 Thank you! Little confused because a lot of people here (including Jack) said that 5LE (stock) should be better than 6SE(maxed)?!
   
  I am thinking about EML 300B (Mesh) or EML 300B-XLS, EML 5U4G and Sylvania vt231.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





toad said:


> Thanks for the info, Larry. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. I haven't been to this site in a while (coming here too often isn't healthy for my wallet), so I'm a bit out of touch with what is current and just trying to catch up now. It seems LCD-2 is pretty popular and well reviewed until people start talking about stax, at which point it then becomes a terrible headphone. The only thing that really has me worried about the lcd2 is how uncomfortable people make it out to seem, but hopefully I'll be able to find that out for myself soon enough. Thanks again for the info


 

 After 2 months I still find the LCD-2 to be uncomfortable, and still prefer my HE-5 LE, HD800, HE60 and O2 Mk1 for comfort.  I can usually listen to the LCD-2 for 1-2 hours before I am fatigued, but I can listen to the O2 Mk1 all day because they fit so much nicer.  I do agree with the others that the O2 Mk1 perform better than the LCD-2, but there are some similarities in sound signature between them.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Then I'LL SAY IT AGAIN!: Woo hoo hoo hoo! Compared to San Francisco, which is where I live, Boston's just a hop, skip, and a jump from Woo Audio. If you're inclined to post internals we'd love to see how it might differ from the other WA22's.
> 
> You LUCKY DAWG, you!
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm going to have one myself now... but wait it is only 9am here...
   
  "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm going to have one myself now... but wait it is only 9am here...
> 
> "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"


 

 "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"? A FedEx vehicle?
  That amp should be delivered in an DARTZ armored car!
  Your delivery's arrived! Sign here....


----------



## K_19

Well, it seems like I'll have to pick up the EML 5U4G from the post office later today.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Can't wait to see how it compares to my Mullard GZ34/5AR4 on the 6SE for my HD800... it'll have to do really well because besides the soundstage issue I find that the Mullard has near perfect synergy with my HD800.  Hope it's worth the money!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> "On FedEx vehicle for delivery"? A FedEx vehicle?
> That amp should be delivered in an DARTZ armored car!
> Your delivery's arrived! Sign here....


 


 Just transferred to this one in full speed, coming, it's coming.........................................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Well, it seems like I'll have to pick up the EML 5U4G from the post office later today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just transferred to this one in full speed, coming, it's coming.........................................


 
   
  That is not fast enough, try this...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is not fast enough, try this...


 
*LOOK OUT. TRANSFERRING!*
*FASTER. FASTER. FASTER!*
   
*WOO RELAY RACE TO jc9394!*


----------



## jc9394

You guys really making me just go home and wait for it...  damn the person scheduled a 3pm meeting...


----------



## dannie01

We're all being insane.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You guys really making me just go home and wait for it...  damn the person scheduled a 3pm meeting...


 

 But you'll feel sick at 2:30pm and leave for a rest at home.


----------



## jc9394

I was totally planning on working from home this morning after I notice it will deliver today until I checked my calendar...  oh well, I need a job to pay of this blood sucking hobby...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I was totally planning on working from home this morning after I notice it will deliver today until I checked my calendar...  oh well, I need a job to pay of this blood sucking hobby...


 

 OK, let's back to earth again......................................but we still waiting for your up-date.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I was totally planning on working from home this morning after I notice it will deliver today until I checked my calendar...  oh well, I need a job to pay of this blood sucking hobby...


 
   
  OK. Just one last jab --> _Delivery tactics changed._
  We're dropping it off at your work for you.


----------



## jc9394

Let's hope no heli showing up my house anytime soon...


----------



## jc9394

Guys, please help me with tube choices for the first listening...
   
  Rectifier:
  Stock
  Metal based GZ34
  Sophia Princess
  EML 274B mesh
  EML 5U4G mesh
   
  Drive:
  Stock
  Treasure CV181
  Brimar CV1988 black glass
  Tung Sol Jan CLT 6F8G
   
  Power:
  Stock
  Tung Sol 5998
  GEC 6080
   
  Too many choices...
   
  EDIT - it is here but I'm still at work and no one home...
   
  "Delivered"


----------



## dannie01

WOW HOO HOO, FINALLY ARRIVED! CONGRATS!
   
  And what a collection, John!
   
  You can save your time for those stock tubes unless you want to know how big the difference with your premium "light bulbs". And my favorite combo is EML 5U4G, Brimar CV 1988 and GEC 6080 within your list. For harder and powerful bass, go for all TS in driver and power tubes, they're great in low department. I love the silky, smooth mid and highs of the Brimar, the GEC is also deliver a very warm (not slow) sound and wide sounstage.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> EDIT - it is here but I'm still at work and no one home...
> 
> "Delivered"


 

 It is "here" like it is with you at work or is it at home at your place with no one there?
  Now what is your home address? No real reason that I am asking. But what is your home address.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is "here" like it is with you at work or is it at home at your place with no one there?
> Now what is your home address? No real reason that I am asking. But what is your home address.


 
  It is here as the amp arrive at home but I'm still at work.  
   
  BTW, I have it ship here and close to you...
   
  50 3rd St
 San Francisco, California 94103


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> WOW HOO HOO, FINALLY ARRIVED! CONGRATS!


 

 Wow. Danny, it is almost 3AM in HK and why are you still up?  Just finish a party at lan kwai fong that we did not get invited?


----------



## jc9394

Let me start with special THANK YOU to Woo Audio for design a kick ass amp and repair it with after market parts and also our fearless leader Danny for modding the amp.  I'm not ready for impression yet as I only have about half an hour listen with it but using the tubes Danny recommended and I have only one word "WOW".
   
  Here are the pics for you all wooaholic...
   
  This is what sitting on my porch for almost 8 hours (Sorry WA22)



   
  Inside the box



   
  Normal exterior of WA22



   

 Mod by our fearless leader (Dannie01)



   
   
  Caps rearrange by Jack Wu



   



   



   



   
  Finally, catching the perfect wave...


----------



## Skylab

Super awesome looking amp! Congrats.

 HEY WA6 owners:

 I scored a big lot of 6EW7's really cheap. Tested them, and only one was bad. So I have too many, and would like to give some away. 

 IF you live in the USA (sorry no international shipping), then the first three people to post the phrase "Free 6EW7 for me!" below can each have a pair, absolutely free.

 Once you have posted, send me your address in PM. After 3 people have posted, the offer automatically closes.


----------



## jc9394

That is really nice of you skylab...


----------



## Clayton SF

"Free 6EW7 for me!"
   
  Skylab--you're too cool.


----------



## Surreal.

"Free 6EW7 for me!"
   
  Just bought a Woo Audio 6 from a Head-Fi'er and would love to begin my tube rolling journey with a pair of tubes from Skylab! It really is generous of you.


----------



## mikemalter

Great pictures.
   
  What tubes did Danny recommend?
   
  Thanks.

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let me start with special THANK YOU to Woo Audio for design a kick ass amp and repair it with after market parts and also our fearless leader Danny for modding the amp.  I'm not ready for impression yet as I only have about half an hour listen with it but using the tubes Danny recommended and I have only one word "WOW".
> 
> Here are the pics for you all wooaholic...
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

"Free 6EW7 for me!"


----------



## Skylab

Ok, that's 3! Offer closed.


----------



## flaming_june

Free 6EW7 for me!
   
  My mouth is watering for that W22.  Very nice looking.
   
  Skylab I'd love to purchase some of those tubes from you. 
   
   
   
   
  awwww too late!


----------



## lentiman

Hey all!  Is it still possible to get a WA6 maxed with Blackgate, etc?  I'm freakishly new and am trying to decide between a nearly new WA6 + PDPS + Sophia Princess vs. Burson HA-160 vs. trying to get a new WA6 maxed out.  Woo doesn't list it on the WA6 page, so I also don't know the cost.  Any input would be appreciated.  This would be for a set of DT 990's and K702's.


----------



## K_19

So I went to pick up my EML 5U4G today and have been listening to it ever since I came home from work around 5pm today.
   
  First impressions... damn, they use a really classy box and foam just for a simple tube.  Then again, considering how much these are worth I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less.  The tube is an absolute beauty, and lights up really pretty in the dark (it's too bad though that I have the volume knob facing towards me, which means that I don't really have an angle to view it from where I'm sitting, unlike the Sophia which sat at the 45 degrees thus was visible from this angle).
   
  Sound impressions are actually mixed, as far as my WA6SE/HD800 combo goes.  Trying the 5U4G class again have made me realize one thing; more soundstage typically means more diffused mids and bass at lower volume levels, which is not that great for HD800 in particular no matter how good the tube itself is.  The GZ34 Mullard may have a small soundstage, but it does help in making the mids more intimate, warm, and also helps majorly in focusing the bass.  EML, which has monstrous soundstage, IMO pulled the HD800 soundstage so wide to the point that it sounded way too disjointed with some music genres.  Keep in mind that I use my HD800 as all-genre headphone (yeah, I know most would disagree with this practice, but I honestly think it's possible with right synergy)... GZ34 IMO really makes this a working reality but EML took away from that.  For music such as classical and acoustic EML sounded much better, but it diffused other genres such as rock/pop/dance/rap genres too much.  I could raise the volume in order to bring stronger lower mid/bass focus (and as a matter of fact, by doing so it made these areas superb, better than the GZ34's), but this made me fall once again into what I'd like to call a "HD800 volume/highs trap": raising the volume also raised the upper mids/highs up to the point that where it was overly hot and piercing for my ears.  This is easily the biggest headache with the HD800 IMO and so far the GZ34 has been the only tube that has been able to sound coherent on my HD800/6SE combo, doing so by compressing the soundstage and being forward in low mids/bass.    
   
  There's a lot to like about EML's sound on its own; it's easily the best 5U4G that I've ever tried... it sounds tremendously open and wide, with well extended and crisp treble, immaculate detail, and good extended and warm bass (It's definitely more warm than the Sophia 274B).  I think it would honestly sound great with most other headphones but I don't think they match all that well with HD800 for my purposes, at least after a night's listening.  And knowing its core characteristics I doubt burn-in will do much to improve this, at least not to the degree I'd need this to change for my particular HD800 use.  I'd also like to mention that only driver tubes that I can use (mine's a prototype unit and is limited in which tubes it can use) are 6DE7/6EW7... maybe it'd sound better with something like 6FD7 etc.
   
  I'm in a bind on what to do with it; I AM on the waiting list for LCD-2 and reading about its sound signature makes me think that EML 5U4G will be PERFECT for it... but if I sell this now, I can probably fetch most of my money back... and I do have a separate SS amp available for LCD-2 if I can't use my WA6SE (The very capable Gilmore Lite)... hmm.
   
  Well, either way, it was a worthwhile try.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Truly an excellent tube overall, just didn't work out in my rig.  Just how this hobby goes!


----------



## flaming_june

Is the EML 5U4G a solid plate?  I ordered EML 274b mesh last week hope it comes soon.  Its a bit confusing when people talk about mesh and solid, then there's the 5U4G. 

  
  Quote: 





lentiman said:


> Hey all!  Is it still possible to get a WA6 maxed with Blackgate, etc?  I'm freakishly new and am trying to decide between a nearly new WA6 + PDPS + Sophia Princess vs. Burson HA-160 vs. trying to get a new WA6 maxed out.  Woo doesn't list it on the WA6 page, so I also don't know the cost.  Any input would be appreciated.  This would be for a set of DT 990's and K702's.


 

 All new WA6 has PDPS stock now since.. January I think


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Is the EML 5U4G a solid plate?  I ordered EML 274b mesh last week hope it comes soon.  Its a bit confusing when people talk about mesh and solid, then there's the 5U4G.
> 
> 
> 
> All new WA6 has PDPS stock now since.. January I think


 
   
  Mine's mesh, and I believe that's what most people here go for.  I do believe there are EML 5U4G solid plates as well though.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Great pictures.
> 
> What tubes did Danny recommend?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 EML 5U4G, Brimar CV 1988 and GEC 6080

  
  Quote: 





lentiman said:


> Hey all!  Is it still possible to get a WA6 maxed with Blackgate, etc?  I'm freakishly new and am trying to decide between a nearly new WA6 + PDPS + Sophia Princess vs. Burson HA-160 vs. trying to get a new WA6 maxed out.  Woo doesn't list it on the WA6 page, so I also don't know the cost.  Any input would be appreciated.  This would be for a set of DT 990's and K702's.


 

 No, Jack discontinue to offer BG for WA6.  There are two reason for it if I remember correctly.  1. BG is very hard to get and his stock run out. 2. Pushing the WA6 price to WA6SE.  I did ordered mines with BG and it is the last few he still offer for it.  I mainly listen to acoustic, live, and jazz, so I do love the BG does to the mid.

  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Sound impressions are actually mixed, as far as my WA6SE/HD800 combo goes.  Trying the 5U4G class again have made me realize one thing; more soundstage typically means more diffused mids and bass at lower volume levels, which is not that great for HD800 in particular no matter how good the tube itself is. * The GZ34 Mullard may have a small soundstage, but it does help in making the mids more intimate, warm, and also helps majorly in focusing the bass.  EML, which has monstrous soundstage, IMO pulled the HD800 soundstage so wide to the point that it sounded way too disjointed with some music genres.*  Keep in mind that I use my HD800 as all-genre headphone (yeah, I know most would disagree with this practice, but I honestly think it's possible with right synergy)... GZ34 IMO really makes this a working reality but EML took away from that.  For music such as classical and acoustic EML sounded much better, but it diffused other genres such as rock/pop/dance/rap genres too much.  I could raise the volume in order to bring stronger lower mid/bass focus (and as a matter of fact, by doing so it made these areas superb, better than the GZ34's), but this made me fall once again into what I'd like to call a "HD800 volume/highs trap": raising the volume also raised the upper mids/highs up to the point that where it was overly hot and piercing for my ears.  This is easily the biggest headache with the HD800 IMO and so far the GZ34 has been the only tube that has been able to sound coherent on my HD800/6SE combo, doing so by compressing the soundstage and being forward in low mids/bass.
> 
> There's a lot to like about EML's sound on its own; it's easily the best 5U4G that I've ever tried... it sounds tremendously open and wide, with well extended and crisp treble, immaculate detail, and good extended and warm bass (It's definitely more warm than the Sophia 274B).  I think it would honestly sound great with most other headphones but I don't think they match all that well with HD800 for my purposes, at least after a night's listening.  And knowing its core characteristics I doubt burn-in will do much to improve this, at least not to the degree I'd need this to change for my particular HD800 use.  I'd also like to mention that only driver tubes that I can use (mine's a prototype unit and is limited in which tubes it can use) are 6DE7/6EW7... maybe it'd sound better with something like *6FD7 *etc.


 

 X2, the GZ34 are hard to beat.  The 6FD7 does makes a difference with EML 5U4G and it is much more dynamic and better bass extension than 6EW7.  Not sure you can use the 6SN7 adapter but using Treasure with EML 5U4G helps with the mid but the soundstage is still monstrous.


----------



## iRRegular

Hello guys it's me again, so as I'm desperately waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive, I decided to buy new interconnects and power cord for it. I had no problems with choosing cables, but when it comes to power cord, I have no idea what to buy. I saw that people spend a huge amounts of $ on such things, but I have no clue about the impact it has on the performance of the amp, so this question might seem ridiculous to many, but I never used power cord that would cost more than a few bucks, so I'm a bit confused. I would greatly appreciate few recommendations for choosing one, I don't want to spend a fortune on it, but would like to get something atleast decent. Which power cords do you use to power up your amps?
   
  Thanks, iRRegular


----------



## K_19

I do plan on testing the EML out further tonight, and gonna try to experiment with the setup as much as I can (swapping different sources, inputs, different cables, etc).  Also planning to try it out with the W1000X which I didn't get around to yesterday.  I don't expect a drastic change in how they sound but maybe I'll come across something I like better, who knows.
   
  The Mullard GZ34 is indeed excellent; although it's not a cheapo either, IMO it presents much better bang for the buck than Sophia or EML.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





irregular said:


> Hello guys it's me again, so as I'm desperately waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive, I decided to buy new interconnects and power cord for it. I had no problems with choosing cables, but when it comes to power cord, I have no idea what to buy. I saw that people spend a huge amounts of $ on such things, but I have no clue about the impact it has on the performance of the amp, so this question might seem ridiculous to many, but I never used power cord that would cost more than a few bucks, so I'm a bit confused. I would greatly appreciate few recommendations for choosing one, I don't want to spend a fortune on it, but would like to get something atleast decent. Which power cords do you use to power up your amps?
> 
> Thanks, iRRegular


 
   
  I use stock power cords myself and more than happy with it.  Power cord discussions are probably better suited to the cables forum, since the discussions concerning them tend to derail threads that are anywhere else.


----------



## mikemalter

jc9394,
   
  Do you mind sharing where you got the tubes: EML 5U4G, Brimar CV 1988 and GEC 6080?
   
  I am new to tube rolling, and they only place I ever bought tubes was from Jack for the WA22 upgrades.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## iRRegular

I'm sorry, didn't mean to start an OT discussion, I was just really confused as I saw people paying big bucks for cords and I though that I'll miss something major if used cheap basic models. Thanks for fast response and again, I apologize for OT.


----------



## mikemalter

Some vendors allow 30 day at home trial's with a no questions asked return policy.  Try www.psaudio.com. I use their power cables.  They are a good company and treat their customers right.  If you are going to try power cables, also remember to use "stock" in your comparison.  Sometimes, given the environment, they don't make that much of a difference.
  
  Quote: 





irregular said:


> Hello guys it's me again, so as I'm desperately waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive, I decided to buy new interconnects and power cord for it. I had no problems with choosing cables, but when it comes to power cord, I have no idea what to buy. I saw that people spend a huge amounts of $ on such things, but I have no clue about the impact it has on the performance of the amp, so this question might seem ridiculous to many, but I never used power cord that would cost more than a few bucks, so I'm a bit confused. I would greatly appreciate few recommendations for choosing one, I don't want to spend a fortune on it, but would like to get something atleast decent. Which power cords do you use to power up your amps?
> 
> Thanks, iRRegular


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





irregular said:


> I'm sorry, didn't mean to start an OT discussion, I was just really confused as I saw people paying big bucks for cords and I though that I'll miss something major if used cheap basic models. Thanks for fast response and again, I apologize for OT.


 

 Take a look at AudioAdvisor.com. They have the Pange powr cords. They perfrom very good and at those low priceses are very hard to beat.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





irregular said:


> Hello guys it's me again, so as I'm desperately waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive, I decided to buy new interconnects and power cord for it. I had no problems with choosing cables, but when it comes to power cord, I have no idea what to buy. I saw that people spend a huge amounts of $ on such things, but I have no clue about the impact it has on the performance of the amp, so this question might seem ridiculous to many, but I never used power cord that would cost more than a few bucks, so I'm a bit confused. I would greatly appreciate few recommendations for choosing one, I don't want to spend a fortune on it, but would like to get something atleast decent. Which power cords do you use to power up your amps?
> 
> Thanks, iRRegular


 

 I use a Cisco switch power cord that is laying around at my work.  I use this one on most of my systems and happy with it.  http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/ILJPOWER.html


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> jc9394,
> 
> Do you mind sharing where you got the tubes: EML 5U4G, Brimar CV 1988 and GEC 6080?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I got the tubes when I brought the amp. You can get the EML from Jack, Brimar CV1988 from here and here.  Not sure on the GEC one...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow. Danny, it is almost 3AM in HK and why are you still up?  Just finish a party at lan kwai fong that we did not get invited?


 


 Don't you remember yesterday is Mid Autum Festival? I was back from mom's home for dinner and lurking arond here but the most important, today is HOLIDAY, hehehe.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





irregular said:


> I'm sorry, didn't mean to start an OT discussion, I was just really confused as I saw people paying big bucks for cords and I though that I'll miss something major if used cheap basic models. Thanks for fast response and again, I apologize for OT.


 

 Please, no apology needed. Hey, this thread is Woo Audio Amp Owner(s) Unite so your question about how to make your Woo sound better be it with tubes or power cords is okay with me. I got my X-Series IEC Shielded Power Cable from Emotiva and although I really can't tell the sonic difference between that and its stock power cord, it looks great and is not expensive.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> jc9394,
> 
> Do you mind sharing where you got the tubes: EML 5U4G, Brimar CV 1988 and GEC 6080?
> 
> ...


 


 I tried to contact the seller for the GEC 6080 but with no luck, his entire stock was sold out, sorry mike.
   
   
   
   
   

   
   
  It's awesome, John.
   
  Jack really did a good job, he make those V-Caps close to each other in a more tidy way and I can see he shorten the Mundrof Silver/Gold cable to re-arranges those 3 big water tanks in a shorter path, great looking.
   
  Anymore impression to share, John?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Don't you remember yesterday is Mid Autum Festival? I was back from mom's home for dinner and lurking arond here but the most important, today is HOLIDAY, hehehe.


 

 I do, my parents drag me out for dinner and that is why I only have 1/2 hour with WA22...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> It's awesome, John.
> 
> Jack really did a good job, he make those V-Caps close to each other in a more tidy way and I can see he shorten the Mundrof Silver/Gold cable to re-arranges those 3 big water tanks in a shorter path, great looking.
> 
> Anymore impression to share, John?


 
   
  Not yet, I will try to get something next week.  We are in the middle of putting an offer on a house, not much free time until the weekend...  During the 30 minutes I have with WA22 last night, I listened to a dozen of my flavor tunes with iMod>Wadia>Perfectwave>WA22>stock SE HD800, it exceeded all my expectation already using the tubes you recommended.  I will swap out the stock cable with TWag balanced one tonight and use Sony S7700 as transport to give is a good listen.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> So I went to pick up my EML 5U4G today and have been listening to it ever since I came home from work around 5pm today.
> 
> First impressions... damn, they use a really classy box and foam just for a simple tube.  Then again, considering how much these are worth I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less.  The tube is an absolute beauty, and lights up really pretty in the dark (it's too bad though that I have the volume knob facing towards me, which means that I don't really have an angle to view it from where I'm sitting, unlike the Sophia which sat at the 45 degrees thus was visible from this angle).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very detail comparison K_19, thanks.
   
  Go to find some 6FD7 fat bottle (they're cheap) with your EML for the WA6SE, the 6FD7s with higher output than normal 6EW7 and 6DE7 and with much better bass presentation, more solid and powerful to meet your taste. I've tried the several brands 6FD7 in my ex-WA6SE and they sound great, very good bass either with paired Sophia 274B.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not yet, I will try to get something next week.  We are in the middle of putting an offer on a house, not much free time until the weekend...  During the 30 minutes I have with WA22 last night, I listened to a dozen of my flavor tunes with iMod>Wadia>Perfectwave>WA22>stock SE HD800, it exceeded all my expectation already using the tubes you recommended.  I will swap out the stock cable with *TWag balanced* one tonight and use Sony S7700 as transport to give is a good listen.


 


 Try to re-cable your HD800 in balanced to optimise the performance of the WA22, you will never regret. BTW, why don't you hook up the S7700 with optical or coaxial cable to the Perfectwave to have a try?
   
  Edit: Sorry, I missed that you already have the TWag balanced cable.


----------



## mikemalter

Thanks!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Try to re-cable your HD800 in balanced to optimise the performance of the WA22, you will never regret. BTW, why don't you hook up the S7700 with optical or coaxial cable to the Perfectwave to have a try?
> 
> Edit: Sorry, I missed that you already have the TWag balanced cable.


 

 The S7700 is hookup already but I don't want to keep changing CD last night as I don't have much time.  So iMod>Wadia is better for me as I have a playlist for all those songs already.  I may connect my MBP to it too, but USB input on PWD is not as good as optical or coaxial input.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Very detail comparison K_19, thanks.
> 
> Go to find some 6FD7 fat bottle (they're cheap) with your EML for the WA6SE, the 6FD7s with higher output than normal 6EW7 and 6DE7 and with much better bass presentation, more solid and powerful to meet your taste. I've tried the several brands 6FD7 in my ex-WA6SE and they sound great, very good bass either with paired Sophia 274B.


 
   
  Thanks.  Hope it helps out the WA6SE/HD800 users.  There are still other variables like personal preferences, DAC used (mine's a Stello DA100), transport (hiface in my case) and if you believe in them, cables and such to consider but hopefully I've at least highlighted its general sound characteristics and how they relate to the signature of HD800.
   
  As far as I know if the 6FD7 is to be used on my 6SE (which as I've stated before, is an older version), I'll have to do some modding inside with caps and such... as I have no experience at all with the soldering iron and way too much of a hassle to send it back to Jack to do it, I unfortunately won't be able to use them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I use a Cisco switch power cord that is laying around at my work.  I use this one on most of my systems and happy with it.  http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/ILJPOWER.html


 

 Great power cord. It looks so organic. Like it is about ready to morph into something else and crawl away.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





irregular said:


> Hello guys it's me again, so as I'm desperately waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive, I decided to buy new interconnects and power cord for it. I had no problems with choosing cables, but when it comes to power cord, I have no idea what to buy. I saw that people spend a huge amounts of $ on such things, but I have no clue about the impact it has on the performance of the amp, so this question might seem ridiculous to many, but I never used power cord that would cost more than a few bucks, so I'm a bit confused. I would greatly appreciate few recommendations for choosing one, I don't want to spend a fortune on it, but would like to get something atleast decent. Which power cords do you use to power up your amps?
> 
> Thanks, iRRegular


 
   
  I think these are great deals for both power and interconnect.  Check them out.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Thanks.  Hope it helps out the WA6SE/HD800 users.  There are still other variables like personal preferences, DAC used (mine's a Stello DA100), transport (hiface in my case) and if you believe in them, cables and such to consider but hopefully I've at least highlighted its general sound characteristics and how they relate to the signature of HD800.
> 
> As far as I know if the 6FD7 is to be used on my 6SE (which as I've stated before, is an older version), I'll have to do some modding inside with caps and such... as I have no experience at all with the soldering iron and way too much of a hassle to send it back to Jack to do it, I unfortunately won't be able to use them.


 

 Why not send Jack an email and ask him to make a pair of adapters with resistors soldered for use in the old version WA6SE, he would be helpful on that.


----------



## debitsohn

http://www.amazon.com/HOSPITAL-GRADE-POWER-13AMP-16AWG/dp/B001S5BYLA/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285258597&sr=8-1


----------



## St3ve

I have a question for the WA6 tube gurus.
   
  Basically, I am looking for suggestions for a tube compliment that will make my WA6 sound it's most 'tubey' (for want of a better word). I guess my solid-state amp (spl phonitor) has got the whole clean and neutral thing covered, so I would like to have my WA6 give me a different, more euphonic and lush, presentation.
   
  The closest I have got with my current tube inventory would be the Princess paired with a pair of big bottle RCA 6FD7 - lovely bit of warmth in the midrange. I guess I want 'more of that', if that makes any sense.
   
  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


----------



## jc9394

Try a Mullard GZ34 with 6SN7 (needs an adapter)...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> http://www.amazon.com/HOSPITAL-GRADE-POWER-13AMP-16AWG/dp/B001S5BYLA/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285258597&sr=8-1


 

 But the Zu looks better... J/K, that is a nice power cable...


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> But the Zu looks better... J/K, that is a nice power cable...


 


 lol i have the iron lung jelly fish but i swear, its the same cable. if i ever buy another power cable, im jus gonna pick these up.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> lol i have the iron lung jelly fish but i swear, its the same cable. if i ever buy another power cable, im jus gonna pick these up.


 

 I not a big believer on cable too but a Zu Birth for $39, I gotta to try it out.  Normally these guys are $99...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Has anyone tried out Mullard CV1377 Rectifier with WA22?  Thoughts?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Has anyone tried out Mullard CV1377 Rectifier with WA22?  Thoughts?


 

 It is the same as GZ34.  https://www.tubeworld.com/5ar4.htm
   
  K_19 has a very informative comparison between GZ34 and EML 5U4G here...


----------



## WindyCityCy

JC9394 thanks for the links.  K_19's review is what actually got me interested.  I'm wondering if any WA22 users have tried it with similar good results.


----------



## jc9394

It should be pretty much the same, I did tried it on my WA6 before and love it.  I have a metal based GZ34 and WA22, I will give it a try this weekend.


----------



## hodgjy

Any chance you'll have a 5:00 free GEC 6AS7G giveaway?  (Chappelle show reference).
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Super awesome looking amp! Congrats.
> 
> HEY WA6 owners:
> 
> ...


----------



## balderon

Hi dannie01, would you share the source for the "water tanks" you used for the WA22 upgrade? Thanks!


----------



## jc9394

He have to kill you if he tells you...


----------



## dmac03

My (black) wa22 and ps1000 headphones just got delivered. The amp is quite the piece of art!
   
  For the time being I am just using stock GE tubes with SE input. I can't even imagine how nice this will be with a good source and tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> My (black) wa22 and ps1000 headphones just got delivered. The amp is quite the piece of art!
> 
> For the time being I am just using stock GE tubes with SE input. I can't even imagine how nice this will be with a good source and tubes.


 

 Woohoo, CONGRATS... you will love the amp.  I totally forget about how good it is until last night.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





st3ve said:


> I have a question for the WA6 tube gurus.
> 
> Basically, I am looking for suggestions for a tube compliment that will make my WA6 sound it's most 'tubey' (for want of a better word). I guess my solid-state amp (spl phonitor) has got the whole clean and neutral thing covered, so I would like to have my WA6 give me a different, more euphonic and lush, presentation.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with jc.  The Sophia doesn't offer a very tubey or lush sound.  A Mullard rectifier will give more of the midrange bloom you may be wanting.  I would ask Glenn to make you a pair of 6SN7 adapters for your amp and go from there.  The 6DE7 and 6FD7 is a brighter and thinner sound.  If you want something more "romantic" the 6SN7 will get you there with the right tubes.  Sylvania green label and RCA greyglass are good places to start for 6SN7GTs.  If you are not ready to do the adapter thing try some Sylvania or RCA 6EW7s.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





st3ve said:


> I have a question for the WA6 tube gurus.
> 
> Basically, I am looking for suggestions for a tube compliment that will make my WA6 sound it's most 'tubey' (for want of a better word). I guess my solid-state amp (spl phonitor) has got the whole clean and neutral thing covered, so I would like to have my WA6 give me a different, more euphonic and lush, presentation.
> 
> ...


 

 Steve, have you tried a Sylvania 5931? This was recommended to me as an alternative to the Sophia and it's certainly a beautiful tube and most definately more ''tubey'' than the Sophia. Soundstage is a little narrow in comparison to the Sophia but it's not as bright, still detailed but no hint of glare. I have one from the same month and year of my birth which is a bit spooky.
   
  Drop me a PM with your address and I'll send it down to Exeter for a loan if you like. I'm in love with my EML 5U4G at present so I have no plans to roll rectifiers any time soon. Just let us know what you think.
   
  Edit:
   
  I agree with Xcallibur reference the 6EW7 option. I have some back up Sylvanias if you want a loan of those also.


----------



## St3ve

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try a Mullard GZ34 with 6SN7 (needs an adapter)...


 

 Thanks jc9394 - I certainly might give both of those things a shot. 

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I agree with jc.  The Sophia doesn't offer a very tubey or lush sound.  A Mullard rectifier will give more of the midrange bloom you may be wanting.  I would ask Glenn to make you a pair of 6SN7 adapters for your amp and go from there.  The 6DE7 and 6FD7 is a brighter and thinner sound.  If you want something more "romantic" the 6SN7 will get you there with the right tubes.  Sylvania green label and RCA greyglass are good places to start for 6SN7GTs.  If you are not ready to do the adapter thing try some Sylvania or RCA 6EW7s.


 


 Thanks Xcalibur - I have a pair of Raytheon 6EW7s, and I find them kind of polite sounding - nice tonality, but a bit shy when it comes to impact (perhaps they are lower output, and it's a psychoacoustic thing). Certainly a nice sounding tube though, but I really like the low-end of the RCA 6FD7 (my phones sometimes need it). I am not sure whether the Raytheons are at all representative of the 6EW7 breed though. 
   
  Then again, most of my driver tube rolling has been with the Princess in situ (which, as you say, isn't known for it's bloominess), so I think I might try rolling a rectifier first and then re-evaluate my drivers (in particular my 6EW7s).
   
  I think I'll certainly be looking into grabbing some 6SN7 adapters in the future, and a Mullard at some point sooner. Thank you for your advice
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Steve, have you tried a Sylvania 5931? This was recommended to me as an alternative to the Sophia and it's certainly a beautiful tube and most definately more ''tubey'' than the Sophia. Soundstage is a little narrow in comparison to the Sophia but it's not as bright, still detailed but no hint of glare. I have one from the same month and year of my birth which is a bit spooky.
> 
> Drop me a PM with your address and I'll send it down to Exeter for a loan if you like. I'm in love with my EML 5U4G at present so I have no plans to roll rectifiers any time soon. Just let us know what you think.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi Nigel,
   
  That's a very kind offer indeed, I would love to give the 5931 a try (only if it is no trouble to yourself) - I'll PM
   
  I am happy to sacrifice some soundstage, and even a little detail, in the pursuit of warmth and lushness.
   
  Steve.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hi, folks
   
  After 15 days waiting, finally...
   

   
   
  Very nice packing...
   

   
   
   
   
  And, these were my recent collections
   

   
   
   
  I suppose I can stay away from tubing rolling for a while... right?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   

   
  Thanks to Skylab, glenn, Dannie, jc9394(John), sillysally, Thaddy..... and many other pros who ever provided your informative comments to me......


----------



## SpudHarris

I bet that sounds awesome. I will be using that very combination in my WA6 very soon.
   
  I have these babies on route from the states......


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I bet that sounds awesome. I will be using that very combination in my WA6 very soon.
> 
> I have these babies on route from the states......


 
   
  I will let this new EML 5U4G Mesh runs for another few hours before I A/B test it with Sophia Princess 274B
   

 And, actually, I am thinking to get another pair of TS BGRP as spare ones...


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> And, actually, I am thinking to get another pair of TS BGRP as spare ones...


 

 Me thinks someone has won the lottery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I thought the same when I got the TS BGRP 6F8G's, you think OMG these are soooo good, what do I do if one fails? I can't possibly live without them. But where does it stop?
   
  I took the view that the 6F8G and 6SN7 TS BGRP's wouldn't be too dissimilar in quality so now have a pair of each.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Me thinks someone has won the lottery
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, you know what exactly I am thinking.
   
  I just tried some musics with this brand new EML, but I must say I am a little disappointed at this moment that it doesn't seem to match with TS BGRP.
  Dynamics are weaker, the feeling of soundstage is a little too artificial, the bass is not improved as I expect(EML should has more tight bass and punch than Sophia, I suppose), everything move a little backward, and the sound is dull(?).
   
  By the way, the image of the sound is flat, the 3D image TS BGRP provides is gone...
   
  Different from K_19, except the soundstage is wider than Sophia, all other things are wrong at this moment.
  I better let EML burns few more hours......


----------



## Skylab

I finally got some 6FD7's to try in my WA6.  This is my favorite tube by far, of all of the dissimilar triodes.  It has all the bass of the 6DE7 (and maybe more), and has a wonderful midrange that neither the 6DE7 or 6EW7 quite have.  I thought the 6EW7 really sounded nice in the mids, but lacked bass depth and punch.  I liked the 6DE7 overall, but thought it was just a little lacking in dynamics.  the 6FD7 really sounds much better.
   
  For some reason, even though they are cheap, the 6FD7 is a little harder to come by, which is too bad.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Yep, you know what exactly I am thinking.
> 
> I just try some musics with this brand new EML, but I must say I am a little disappointed at this moment that it doesn't seem to match with TS BGRP.
> Dynamics are weaker, the feeling of soundstage is a little too artificial, the bass is not improved as I expect(EML should has more tight bass and punch than Sophia, I suppose), everything move a little backward, and the sound is dull(?).
> ...


 

 No worry, I have very similar feeling when I put the EMLs new in my WA5LE. Now after about 40 hrs of burn-in, they sound great. Let it run for few more days and you'll find it works great with the TS BGRP.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Yep, you know what exactly I am thinking.
> 
> I just try some musics with this brand new EML, but I must say I am a little disappointed at this moment that it doesn't seem to match with TS BGRP.
> Dynamics are weaker, the feeling of soundstage is a little too artificial, the bass is not improved as I expect(EML should has more tight bass and punch than Sophia, I suppose), everything move a little backward, and the sound is dull(?).
> ...


 

 Yeah, I'm guessing that the synergy with your driver tubes may have a lot to do with how they will sound to you.  I personally do think that it's slightly more punchy and dynamic than Sophia, but I'd have to say neither have particularly prominent bass... both are well extended but at the same time, neutral.  And as stated before the soundstage is the reason why I find neither to be a perfect match with the HD800... it pulls it too wide.
   
  BTW I tried the EML with many different set ups yesterday (lot of source, cable, driver tube swappin') and I did manage to get them sound VERY close to how I want them to be with my HD800, but always came_ just_ short of having my ideal highs/lows balance at my ideal loudness setting.  As it merely has neutral bass (opposed to the GZ34, which does have prominence here due to smaller soundstage and being warmer) but yet very clear and crisp highs, the highs were just a little bit too prominent no matter what at where I want the bass to be (and I don't mean sibilance... EML is not sibilant at all IMO, but I meant more the areas >10khz which I'm sensitive to).  But damn, the detailing and naturalness in sound was impeccable...
   
  I also tried it with my W1000X and the synergy was excellent.  What's interesting is that W1000X shares the similar highs peak as the HD800's but manage to still sound good with the EML because they also have prominent bass by default to compliment it.  This enables it to sound perfectly balanced at lower levels, unlike the 800's.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I thought the 6EW7 really sounded nice in the mids, but lacked bass depth and punch.


 

 Dear Skylab,
   
  Actually, my stock GE 6EW7 provides more bass and punch than current TS BGRP. 
  I love my TS very much, but lack of bass is an issue to HD800 in this rigs.
  Do you have any suggestion?
   
  Thanks,
  Ivan.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I finally got some 6FD7's to try in my WA6.  This is my favorite tube by far, of all of the dissimilar triodes.  It has all the bass of the 6DE7 (and maybe more), and has a wonderful midrange that neither the 6DE7 or 6EW7 quite have.  I thought the 6EW7 really sounded nice in the mids, but lacked bass depth and punch.  I liked the 6DE7 overall, but thought it was just a little lacking in dynamics.  the 6FD7 really sounds much better.
> 
> For some reason, even though they are cheap, the 6FD7 is a little harder to come by, which is too bad.


 
   
  I really wish I'd have known about the 6FD7 compatibility when I sent it the first time to Jack for repairs... I'd definitely have paid extra to have it made compatible with it.  But now, without any DIY skills and shipping it back WAY too much of a hassle, there's really not much I can do about it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








  But I recall something being mentioned earlier about making an adaptor with resistors... I may inquire to Jack about it to see if it is possible at all.
   
  BTW, a quick question; I'm looking for tube dampers for 6DE7 and found these for cheap: http://cgi.ebay.ca/10X-Tube-Damper-Silicon-Ring-fit-12AX7-12AU7-12AT7-6EU7-/150495887167?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item230a40ff3f   They're for the 12AU7 variety though and I was wondering if they'd fit my 6DE7's... I had the 12AU7's before and from memory they are of similar size... can anyone confirm that these will fit the 6DE7's?  Furthermore... will these even work?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi, folks
> 
> After 15 days waiting, finally...
> 
> Thanks to Skylab, glenn, Dannie, jc9394(John), sillysally, Thaddy..... and many other pros who ever provided your informative comments to me......


 

 You should stop looking for tubes, there is nothing you can get is better than the setup already have.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Yep, you know what exactly I am thinking.
> 
> I just tried some musics with this brand new EML, but I must say I am a little disappointed at this moment that it doesn't seem to match with TS BGRP.
> Dynamics are weaker, the feeling of soundstage is a little too artificial, the bass is not improved as I expect(EML should has more tight bass and punch than Sophia, I suppose), everything move a little backward, and the sound is dull(?).
> ...


 

 I think your TS BGRP does not match the EML at all.  Please send it my way so Ii can confirm it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No worry, I have very similar feeling when I put the EMLs new in my WA5LE. Now after about 40 hrs of burn-in, they sound great. Let it run for few more days and you'll find it works great with the TS BGRP.


 

 Don't tell him that...


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No worry, I have very similar feeling when I put the EMLs new in my WA5LE. Now after about 40 hrs of burn-in, they sound great. Let it run for few more days and you'll find it works great with the TS BGRP.


 

 Hi, Dannie
   
  Every time I want something, or I got something, you always ask me to be patient.....  but you know that is actually a torture...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Yeah, I'm guessing that the synergy with your driver tubes may have a lot to do with how they will sound to you.  I personally do think that it's slightly more punchy and dynamic than Sophia, but I'd have to say neither have particularly prominent bass... both are well extended but at the same time, neutral.  And as stated before the soundstage is the reason why I find neither to be a perfect match with the HD800... it pulls it too wide.
> 
> BTW I tried the EML with many different set ups yesterday (lot of source, cable, driver tube swappin') and I did manage to get them sound VERY close to how I want them to be with my HD800, but always came_ just_ short of having my ideal highs/lows balance at my ideal loudness setting.  As it merely has neutral bass (opposed to the GZ34, which does have prominence here due to smaller soundstage and being warmer) but yet very clear and crisp highs, the highs were just a little bit too prominent no matter what at where I want the bass to be (and I don't mean sibilance... EML is not sibilant at all IMO, but I meant more the areas >10khz which I'm sensitive to).  But damn, the detailing and naturalness in sound was impeccable...
> 
> I also tried it with my W1000X and the synergy was excellent.  What's interesting is that W1000X shares the similar highs peak as the HD800's but manage to still sound good with the EML because they also have prominent bass by default to compliment it.  This enables it to sound perfectly balanced at lower levels, unlike the 800's.


 
   
  HD800 prpvides excellent detail, midrange and soundstage, however, a little hot treble---just like Skylab's review---and bass is a little on the "light" side.
  It is good at Vocal and music instruments, but somehow not so suitable for Metal/Electric/POP and some OSTs.(that's the reason I kept my HD600/650 for Trance or similar musics)
   
  I like my TS because of its 3D image and I don't think I will change another signal tubes.
  Therefore, I need to find another way to fix the "bass issue" of HD800.
   
  Do you have any experience of Denon D7000? 
  If your setup works well with W1000X, it should work well with D7000, too, and more warm sound.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I really wish I'd have known about the 6FD7 compatibility when I sent it the first time to Jack for repairs... I'd definitely have paid extra to have it made compatible with it.  But now, without any DIY skills and shipping it back WAY too much of a hassle, there's really not much I can do about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Was it ever clarified why the 6FD7 is OK for the WA6 but not the WA6SE?


----------



## DarKu

6FD7 is ok for newer WA6SE, for older ones too but needs to be moded (cathode cap needs to be replaced with a higher voltage one), 6FD7 was also my preffered tube! Easily most dynamic with great impact and tight bass.
  For new EML users: Let it burn-in for 50-100 hours, after that we can talk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  It is BEST rectifier i tried, Sophia it's not even coming close! and I am a HD800 user too.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi, Dannie
> 
> Every time I want something, or I got something, you always ask me to be patient.....  but you know that is actually a torture...
> 
> ...


 
   
  IMO, the soundstage is the part of the reason why the bass seems light to people's ears.  Stretched bit too far apart on certain music and lacking focus... I think this is part of the reason why it's VERY difficult to pick out a headphone that does both soundstage and bass impact/fullness well... as a matter of fact, I cannot think of a fully open headphone that is reputed to do both of these areas _extremely_ well (R10 does apparently, but it's closed back.  Perhaps the T1?  I've never tried it however).  Thus far the only way I've been able to get satisfactory bass with the HD800's at comfortable volume levels is to shrink its soundstage.
   
  Are you at all particularly against EQing? I'd say that's about the only way at this point to keep your soundstage yet have impactful bass... by EQing down the highs and raising the bass impact by boosting the volume a bit more.
   
  As for the D7000's I've demoed it on numerous occasions, but not in a good enough setup to really have a valid opinion on it.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think your TS BGRP does not match the EML at all.  Please send it my way so Ii can confirm it.


 

 Hi, John
   
  If I can successfully get another pair, I don't think why not.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (be warned, my current pair has microphonic problem.....on the other hand, I am afraid you will start to "stock" your own BGRP"s" after you try it! )


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I finally got some 6FD7's to try in my WA6.  This is my favorite tube by far, of all of the dissimilar triodes.  It has all the bass of the 6DE7 (and maybe more), and has a wonderful midrange that neither the 6DE7 or 6EW7 quite have.  I thought the 6EW7 really sounded nice in the mids, but lacked bass depth and punch.  I liked the 6DE7 overall, but thought it was just a little lacking in dynamics.  the 6FD7 really sounds much better.
> 
> For some reason, even though they are cheap, the 6FD7 is a little harder to come by, which is too bad.


 

 Try this guy, it is only $5 each.  He don't have a tester but he is willing to exchange if DOA.  Most of his stock are NOS with few of them are used, all the one I  got from him are NOS.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Was it ever clarified why the 6FD7 is OK for the WA6 but not the WA6SE?


 

 I believe Jack has never given an _official_ explanation on why it's not okay for older WA6SE units, but I believe it's got something to do with voltage cap issues as well as noise concerns.  As DarKu said newest ones seem fully compatible.
  
  Quote: 





darku said:


> For new EML users: Let it burn-in for 50-100 hours, after that we can talk
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What specific changes did the burn-in bring about?  Unless it smooths out and mutes the highs or boosts the bass presence a lot (and I don't personally believe in a burn-in boosting or lowering prominence in the region, although I believe it can smooth and tighten certain frequencies) I don't think it'll improve enough for me to use the HD800 _as an all-rounder_.  I AM more sensitive to the 10k+ area than most people though, which does have a lot to do with this.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





darku said:


> It is BEST rectifier i tried, Sophia it's not even coming close! and I am a HD800 user too.


 

 X2, I really loving the Treasure CV181 with EML, but the tubes are touching each other on my WA6.  WA6SE owner will not have that problem.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hi, John
> 
> If I can successfully get another pair, I don't think why not.
> 
> ...


 


 Now, go looking to another pair.  J/K 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I believe Jack has never given an _official_ explanation on why it's not okay for older WA6SE units, but I believe it's got something to do with voltage cap issues as well as noise concerns.  As DarKu said newest ones seem fully compatible.
> 
> 
> What specific changes did the burn-in bring about?  Unless it smooths out and mutes the highs or boosts the bass presence a lot (and I don't personally believe in a burn-in boosting or lowering prominence in the region, although I believe it can smooth and tighten certain frequencies) I don't think it'll improve enough for me to use the HD800 as an all-rounder.  I AM more sensitive to the 10k+ area than most people though, which does have a lot to do with this.


 

 It smooth out mostly but it does improve the bass a bit but it is not that noticeable.  Try use Treasure, it have the most bass extension of all the 6SN7 tubes I tried.  It is kind of like 6FD7 but I think it is voiced for female vocal (especially Asian).


----------



## St3ve

Not sure whether he really stocks them, but I sourced my 6FD7 (along with my 6EW7) from Jack. I didn't ask for them specifically, I just asked for some 'spare driver tubes' (toobnoob that I was/am) when I bought a stand from him.  If people are having a hard time finding them it might be worth chucking him an email to see is he has any knocking about.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


k_19 said:


> IMO, the soundstage is the part of the reason why the bass seems light to people's ears.  Stretched bit too far apart on certain music and lacking focus... I think this is part of the reason why it's VERY difficult to pick out a headphone that does both soundstage and bass impact/fullness well... as a matter of fact, I cannot think of a fully open headphone that is reputed to do both of these areas _extremely_ well (R10 does apparently, but it's closed back.  Perhaps the T1?  I've never tried it however).  Thus far the only way I've been able to get satisfactory bass with the HD800's at comfortable volume levels is to shrink its soundstage.


 
  this is a very valid observation, K_19.
  i agree.  soundstage size and bass strength seem to be inversely proportionate.
  however, the T1 comes the closest to balancing these of any headphone i've heard.
  even the LCD-2 doesn't really try to balance the two.  soundstage is smaller.  but bass is jaw dropping.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





darku said:


> For new EML users: Let it burn-in for 50-100 hours, after that we can talk
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Dear Darku,
   
  Thanks for sharing the experience.
  Will let it burn for few more days.


  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> IMO, the soundstage is the part of the reason why the bass seems light to people's ears.  Stretched bit too far apart on certain music and lacking focus... I think this is part of the reason why it's VERY difficult to pick out a headphone that does both soundstage and bass impact/fullness well... as a matter of fact, I cannot think of a fully open headphone that is reputed to do both of these areas _extremely_ well (R10 does apparently, but it's closed back.  Perhaps the T1?  I've never tried it however).  Thus far the only way I've been able to get satisfactory bass with the HD800's at comfortable volume levels is to shrink its soundstage.
> 
> Are you at all particularly against EQing? I'd say that's about the only way at this point to keep your soundstage yet have impactful bass... by EQing down the highs and raising the bass impact by boosting the volume a bit more.
> 
> As for the D7000's I've demoed it on numerous occasions, but not in a good enough setup to really have a valid opinion on it.


 
   
  Dear K_19,
   
  I must say that T1 can't provide the bass while you want to keep the sound balanced in every aspects.
  It is not like the other Beyerdynamic's phones, and I suppose Beyer wants to make it a flagship similar to HD800 which focus on revealing the sound and makes it "neutral, but avoiding to emphasis some portion of frequency.
   
  I tends to stay out of EQing because I listen many different kinds of musics. I just try to set up my rigs to fit all these categories of music as much as possible, Otherwise, I need to adjust the EQ quite ofter to fit different MIX and it makes me spending time on finding best EQ rather than enjoy the music.( I did enjoying playing EQ before, but not anymore. Because in the end, I could never find a best/perfect EQ as I don't have such talent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> Quote:
> this is a very valid observation, K_19.
> i agree.  soundstage size and bass strength seem to be inversely proportionate.
> however, the T1 comes the closest to balancing these of any headphone i've heard.
> even the LCD-2 doesn't really try to balance the two.  soundstage is smaller.  but bass is jaw dropping.


 

 Dear TheWuss,
   
  Wow, your experience of T1 is different from mine. May I ask how many hours you burn it?
  We have several owners here in Taiwan, some burn it over 1000hours, they are happy with T1 but not really think it has such bass as you described.
  Is there any secret? because T1 was one of my option when I decided to buy HD800.
  And, I am still willing to get it if it can make up this portion.
   
  Thanks,
  Ivan.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Dear TheWuss,
> 
> Wow, your experience of T1 is different from mine. May I ask how many hours you burn it?
> We have several owners here in Taiwan, some burn it over 1000hours, they are happy with T1 but not really think it has such bass as you described.
> ...


 

 I will share one observation, Cyberevo, that has slowly come to my attention about the T1:  they are amp dependent headphones.
   
  I've driven the T1 from a few different amps, and it is a different experience with each.
  I've heard people call the T1 bright, neutral, warm, bassy, and everything in between.
  All I can honestly tell you is that they appear to let through whatever is happening up-stream.
   
  I have a setup now with my DNA Sonett that gives the T1 very impactful bass, and a very satisfying quantity of bass.
  I have found that through some amps, the T1 can be quite a booger to get the bass I want.
  It's probably due to the +/- 1300 ohm resistance in the bass region (100 hz).
   
  They are devils.  Because they are 600 ohms average, but behave like easy to drive headphones.
  So my guess is that a lot of folks aren't supplying the juice the T1s need in order to fill out in the bass region.
   
  I'm still gearing up to purchase an OTL amp to drive the T1s.  And I feel quite confident these headphones will reward that decision...
  I've only heard them through solid state and transformer-coupled tube amps.  My Sonett gets there in terms of bass, but lacks the refinement of my Woo amp...
  so....


----------



## Skylab

There is no doubt in my mind the T1 is much better from the WA2 than with the WA6.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> I have a setup now with my DNA Sonett that gives the T1 very impactful bass, and a very satisfying quantity of bass.
> I have found that through some amps, the T1 can be quite a booger to get the bass I want.
> It's probably due to the +/- 1300 ohm resistance in the bass region (100 hz).
> 
> ...


 
   
  I know this OT but I do missed my DNA.  What tubes you are using with your Sonett?  I agree is not as refine as my WA6 but right I rolled the Mullard GZ34 and DR tube, it is very very close to my WA6.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> I know this OT but I do missed my DNA.  What tubes you are using with your Sonett?  I agree is not as refine as my WA6 but right I rolled the Mullard GZ34 and DR tube, it is very very close to my WA6.


 

 sending you a pm...
   
  back to the woo show.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> back to the woo show.


 

 I am searching for those posts which Taiwanese owners shared about T1 and which amps they are using.... actually, I planned to buy T1 in the first place, instead of HD800.
   
  Too sad, we have to back to Woo show....


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I believe Jack has never given an _official_ explanation on why it's not okay for older WA6SE units, but I believe it's got something to do with voltage cap issues as well as noise concerns.  As DarKu said newest ones seem fully compatible.
> 
> 
> What specific changes did the burn-in bring about?  Unless it smooths out and mutes the highs or boosts the bass presence a lot (and I don't personally believe in a burn-in boosting or lowering prominence in the region, although I believe it can smooth and tighten certain frequencies) I don't think it'll improve enough for me to use the HD800 _as an all-rounder_.  I AM more sensitive to the 10k+ area than most people though, which does have a lot to do with this.


 

 To me EML is the smoothest rectifier, I do not like the harsh highs as sometimes HD800 can have, the EML shoothes them out a lot better, Sophia sounds bright in comparison, and the bass on EML becomes more focused faster and tighter, I listened to an EML with about 200 hours on it, maybe thats why we hear so different, the sound will change in the few days i believe, do not loose faith


----------



## DarKu

There are a lot of T1 and HD800 users here, me included. I am a rock listener (90% of the time) and bass, speed and impact are very important to me. T1 was very nice until I heard HD800. HD800 may have less bass, but the imaging, separation of instruments soundstage and the detail retrieval is just better than T1. I currentrly sold my T1's because with HD800 in house i didn't used T1 at all. With the right source and amp (and tubes) you can get gobs of bass from your HD800 I can assure you that.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





darku said:


> There are a lot of T1 and HD800 users here, me included. I am a rock listener (90% of the time) and bass, speed and impact are very important to me. T1 was very nice until I heard HD800. HD800 may have less bass, but the imaging, separation of instruments soundstage and the detail retrieval is just better than T1. I currentrly sold my T1's because with HD800 in house i didn't used T1 at all. With the right source and amp (and tubes) you can get gobs of bass from your HD800 I can assure you that.


 


 So far from all my drvier tubes the best for open (HD800) or semi-open (T1) are the Ken-Rad V231 Black Glass Staggered Plates. The bass those tubes produces really help those headphones but with my close cans (DX1000/D7000) they produce too much bass to my taste so I go to my Sylvania Brown Base, Chrome tops 6SN7WGT.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59, do you have the Treasure?  I wonder how they compare to Ken Rad v231...


----------



## dannie01

John, how's the size of the Treasure compare with TS6F8G? I wanna try a pair of Treasure on your comment and they're relatively cheap in China. But when I tried the 6F8Gs in the WA5LE, both glasses of the 6F8Gs and Sophia 300Bs touch each other and now the EAT 300Bs are even bigger than the Sophia so I afraid the Treasure is too big for the WA5LE with EAT.


----------



## fhuang

so it's not different, it's better?  umm...... what about wa5?
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> There is no doubt in my mind the T1 is much better from the WA2 than with the WA6.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> John, how's the size of the Treasure compare with TS6F8G? I wanna try a pair of Treasure on your comment and they're relatively cheap in China. But when I tried the 6F8Gs in the WA5LE, both glasses of the 6F8Gs and Sophia 300Bs touch each other and now the EAT 300Bs are even bigger than the Sophia so I afraid the Treasure is too big for the WA5LE with EAT.


 

 I  have not roll that is yet.  Still enjoying the Brimar, I will roll the 5998, 6F8G, and EML 274B or Sophia tonight.  Swap out the stock HD800 with TWag balanced cable last night and boy what a difference it makes.


----------



## dannie01

Haha, you will enjoy the full balanced output from the WA22, it really makes something different.
   
  But my question is, how's the size different of the TS 6F8G and Treasure, which one is bigger? Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

I will compare it tonight, from memory, they are about the same.  I will let you know later tonight.
   
  The WA22 impress me every time I turn it on.


----------



## flaming_june

Here's a question already asked but I would like some more input:  Worth buying a WA6se after selling off a WA6?  Trying to justify spending another 600usd.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Here's a question already asked but I would like some more input:  Worth buying a WA6se after selling off a WA6?  Trying to justify spending another 600usd.


 

 Really depends on which headphones you are using, which version of WA6 you have, as well as rest of your components.  If you have a headphone that can benefit a lot from the added power, then it's worth buying.  I went from WA6 (no PDPS) to WA6SE and felt that the difference is well worth it and quite noticeable for my HD800.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> John, how's the size of the Treasure compare with TS6F8G? I wanna try a pair of Treasure on your comment and they're relatively cheap in China. But when I tried the 6F8Gs in the WA5LE, both glasses of the 6F8Gs and Sophia 300Bs touch each other and now the EAT 300Bs are even bigger than the Sophia so I afraid the Treasure is too big for the WA5LE with EAT.


 


 I've had both in my WA6 and the Treasures touch both the EML and Sophia. The TS 6F8G's do not touch as they are slimmer than the Treasures.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> so it's not different, it's better?  umm...... what about wa5?


 

 Note that I am NOT saying I think the WA2 is _always_ better - but yes, better with the T1.
   
  Never heard the WA5 except at a meet.


----------



## fhuang

i meant with t1, or maybe some other 600ohm beyers
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Note that I am NOT saying I think the WA2 is _always_ better - but yes, better with the T1.
> 
> Never heard the WA5 except at a meet.


----------



## Skylab

Yup, the WA2 is just plain _special_ with the T1.


----------



## fhuang

maybe a balanced t1 with wa22 would be even better?  i read wa22 is just a balanced version of wa2
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yup, the WA2 is just plain _special_ with the T1.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> John, how's the size of the Treasure compare with TS6F8G? I wanna try a pair of Treasure on your comment and they're relatively cheap in China. But when I tried the 6F8Gs in the WA5LE, both glasses of the 6F8Gs and Sophia 300Bs touch each other and now the EAT 300Bs are even bigger than the Sophia so I afraid the Treasure is too big for the WA5LE with EAT.


 


 The Treasure CV181Z diameter is clearly bigger than any 6F8G. I have the EML 300B in my WA5-LE. The Treasure are not really touching the 300B or each other but very very close probably less then 1 mm. The 6F8G are just fine. If the Sophia 300B or the EAT have bigger diameter than the EML I doubt you can fit them in.


----------



## jc9394

Musicman59 is correct, the Treasure CV181 is at least 1/4" larger in diameter.

 Danny. You are correct the bass impact on the TS5998 and TS 6F8G combo. Actually I have to swap out the EML 5U4G to tame the bass a bit on HD800. This amp got to be my best head-fi related purchased.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will compare it tonight, from memory, they are about the same.  I will let you know later tonight.
> 
> The WA22 impress me every time I turn it on.


 

 It is a great amp, huh?
   
  Your WA22 looks excellent.  I want to swap out the stock caps sometime soon; it should be a fun weekend project.  As far as I know, you and Seamaster are the only two people who have a 'modded' WA22.


----------



## jc9394

theaudiodude said:


> It is a great amp, huh?
> 
> Your WA22 looks excellent.  I want to swap out the stock caps sometime soon; it should be a fun weekend project.  As far as I know, you and Seamaster are the only two people who have a 'modded' WA22.







 Where are you locate in MA? I'm in Canton. We should do a A/B on the WA22. Yeah, I'm lucky to pickup the modded one from Dannie01.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Where are you locate in MA? I'm in Canton. We should do a A/B on the WA22. Yeah, I'm lucky to pickup the modded one from Dannie01.


 

 And also lucky to have Cool Jack to do some orderly cleanup work on your internals as well!


----------



## dannie01

Thanks guys for all your input and measurement.

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I've had both in my WA6 and the Treasures touch both the EML and Sophia. The TS 6F8G's do not touch as they are slimmer than the Treasures.


 
    
  Quote:


musicman59 said:


> The Treasure CV181Z diameter is clearly bigger than any 6F8G. I have the EML 300B in my WA5-LE. The Treasure are not really touching the 300B or each other but very very close probably less then 1 mm. The 6F8G are just fine. If the Sophia 300B or the EAT have bigger diameter than the EML I doubt you can fit them in.


 
      
  That's not a bad news, I can save the Treasure to fund another pair of TS BGRP or Ken Rad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, thanks.
   
       Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Musicman59 is correct, the Treasure CV181 is at least 1/4" larger in diameter.
> 
> Danny. You are correct the bass impact on the TS5998 and TS 6F8G combo. Actually I have to swap out the EML 5U4G to tame the bass a bit on HD800. This amp got to be my best head-fi related purchased.


 

 Great, good to know you love it.The EML refine the lows department but not affecting the quality and dynamic of bass performance. The GEC 6080 / Brimar and EML combo is wonderful for female vocal, chamber, instrument and jazz IMO. Enjoy your new toy, John.


----------



## jc9394

Now, I'm really interested in what the TS BGRP can do to vocal, jazz, and sone HKpop. Danny, any idea how it sound with Jacky Cheung and Harkin?


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> And also lucky to have Cool Jack to do some orderly cleanup work on your internals as well!







 Yeah, Jack is a super cool guy.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And also lucky to have Cool Jack to do some orderly cleanup work on your internals as well!


 


 You mean my soldering work is not tidy and orderly enough! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I will improve in my mod of the WA5LE, it will looks more clean, tidy and orderly, hopefully.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You mean my soldering work is not tidy and orderly enough!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No. Your soldering work is excellent, of course, dare I say otherwise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's just that jack positioned the caps differently--you know--a little tighter.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Now, I'm really interested in what the TS BGRP can do to vocal, jazz, and sone HKpop. Danny, any idea how it sound with Jacky Cheung and Harkin?


 

 I don't listen to Harkin very much but it's wonderful with Jacky Cheung. Also, it's depend on which recording company to produce the record, some sound really bad but normally Jacky's records always sound great.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No. Your soldering work is excellent, of course, dare I say otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just kidding, no serious, Clayton.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> I don't listen to Harkin very much but it's wonderful with Jacky Cheung. Also, it's depend on which recording company to produce the record, some sound really bad but normally Jacky's records always sound great.







 I'm not much of HK pop fans anymore but always love Jacky Cheung. On Harkin, I borrowed my friend's CD concert hall, it is quite nice especially the recording, not that often HK produce a recording like this. Well, going back to listen more Jazz and classical for tonight.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I finally got some 6FD7's to try in my WA6.  This is my favorite tube by far, of all of the dissimilar triodes.  It has all the bass of the 6DE7 (and maybe more), and has a wonderful midrange that neither the 6DE7 or 6EW7 quite have.  I thought the 6EW7 really sounded nice in the mids, but lacked bass depth and punch.  I liked the 6DE7 overall, but thought it was just a little lacking in dynamics.  the 6FD7 really sounds much better.
> 
> For some reason, even though they are cheap, the 6FD7 is a little harder to come by, which is too bad.


 

 I got my 6FD7 a month ago from Jack, but I've been too busy enjoying my Sylvania VT-231 tubes with the WA6 to try them yet.  I also got some 6CY7 to try.  Che really liked his 6FD7 when he first got them, which lead me to order mine.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Was it ever clarified why the 6FD7 is OK for the WA6 but not the WA6SE?


 

 Jack stepped in a long time ago here and clarified the capacitor value issue.  Supposedly the 6FD7 will blow said cap eventually unless it is swapped for one with a higher voltage handling value.  The other reason Jack discourages the 6FD7 on the WA6SE is because it supposedly can introduce an audible hum in the signal.  He never explained why though.  A few months ago he began building the SE with caps rated to handle the 6FD7 because there had been so much interest and warned of the possible hum issue in that announcement.
   
  BTW are your 6FD7 flat plate or cross plate?  The latter is far more rare, but sounds considerably better IMO.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Jack stepped in a long time ago here and clarified the capacitor value issue.  Supposedly the 6FD7 will blow said cap eventually unless it is swapped for one with a higher voltage handling value.  The other reason Jack discourages the 6FD7 on the WA6SE is because it supposedly can introduce an audible hum in the signal.  He never explained why though.  A few months ago he began building the SE with caps rated to handle the 6FD7 because there had been so much interest and warned of the possible hum issue in that announcement.
> 
> BTW are your 6FD7 flat plate or cross plate?  The latter is far more rare, but sounds considerably better IMO.


 

 I think Che found the 6FD7 to give him more gain, which could explain the potential for more noise.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I got my WA6SE in February of this year; I've been listening to it with the Sophia and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s that came with the amp.  With my HD800s I've been very pleased so far, but I've noticed a lack of bass impact on some recordings.
   
  After reading this thread, I thought maybe I'd try the EML 5U4G in place of the Sophia.  I received it a week ago, and I do like it better.  As mentioned above, the soundstage is extremely wide, and the quantity of bass is a little better, but some of the low end clarity was missing, I thought.  Lower frequencies just seemed slightly out of focus.
   
  I also read here that possibly this problem could be solved by switching to the 6DF7, so I ordered a pair of them from tube depot (they were only $5.00 each, but what I got was an unmatched pair, one GE and one DuMont.)  I tried them along with the EML 5U4G, and immediately noticed two things; much better bass, and a huge difference in gain.  My maximum listening level with the Sophia/6EW7 combination was around 10 o'clock on the volume control; with the EML5U4G/6DF7s, I don't dare go up even to 9 o'clock.
   
  For a couple of hours last night, this setup seemed to me to be the best combination I've heard with this amp and my HD800s.  My favorite track for hearing differences in the quality and quantity of bass with different gear and tubes is "Ode to Billy Joe" from Patricia Barber's Cafe Blue.
   
  But, one problem; after listening for awhile, the right channel gradually faded out.  The left channel kept working properly.  I listened for any noise or other problems, and heard nothing.  All of the tubes were still glowing properly.  (The DuMont tube was in the right channel socket).  Worried, I shut the amp off, let everything cool down for 15-20 minutes, then went back and removed the 6DF7s, and replaced them with my original 6EW7s.  After powering up, everything was fine again.
   
  Obviously this is a problem with one of the tubes, but now, I'm wondering if my WA6SE is capable of operating with the 6DF7s.  I've read here that older models needed a modification to work with this tube, but I thought mine (February 2010 build) was new enough to be compatible.
   
  So, two questions; can I safely run the EML 5U4G and 6FD7s with my WA6SE?  And if so, where can I get a nice, matched pair?  I really like this combination, and from what I've read, everything will improve even more after 80-100 hours.  Thanks in advance for any advice anyone here can give.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Jack stepped in a long time ago here and clarified the capacitor value issue.  Supposedly the 6FD7 will blow said cap eventually unless it is swapped for one with a higher voltage handling value.  The other reason Jack discourages the 6FD7 on the WA6SE is because it supposedly can introduce an audible hum in the signal.  He never explained why though.  A few months ago he began building the SE with caps rated to handle the 6FD7 because there had been so much interest and warned of the possible hum issue in that announcement.
> 
> BTW are your 6FD7 flat plate or cross plate?  The latter is far more rare, but sounds considerably better IMO.


 

 Good info, thanks.  the 6FD7's I have now (black-plate Sylvanias) appear to be "flat plate" - the plate of one of the triodes looks like a typical flat "ladder" plate like is found in many RCA and GE 6SN7's., and the other triode plate looks more like what you would find in a late-model Sylvania 6SN7.


----------



## jc9394

red jacket mike said:


> But, one problem; after listening for awhile, the right channel gradually faded out.  The left channel kept working properly.  I listened for any noise or other problems, and heard nothing.  All of the tubes were still glowing properly.  (The DuMont tube was in the right channel socket).  Worried, I shut the amp off, let everything cool down for 15-20 minutes, then went back and removed the 6DF7s, and replaced them with my original 6EW7s.  After powering up, everything was fine again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 Yes, 5U4G can work with 6FD7 fine.

 Did you try to swap the tubes to see if the problem follows? If it does follow, it is the tube that is the problem. Email Jack to see if you'd amp is capable of running 6FD7, I think he keep a database of the amp he built. Or get another pair to give it a try...


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, 5U4G can work with 6FD7 fine.
> 
> Did you try to swap the tubes to see if the problem follows? If it does follow, it is the tube that is the problem. Email Jack to see if you'd amp is capable of running 6FD7, I think he keep a database of the amp he built. Or get another pair to give it a try...


 
  Yes, I swapped the tubes this morning, putting the DuMont in the left channel, and the problem followed it there--after 3 or 4 minutes, it didn't fade out as before, but this time it began to crackle and pop.  I turned the volume down, switched everything off, and after a cooling period, I swapped my Sylvania 6EW7s back in--all is fine.  So I know this is a defective tube.  So where can I find a nice, not too expensive matched pair of 6FD7s?
   
  I see that Tube World has a pair of Sylvania 6FD7 Big Bottle (rebranded GE) for $25.00.  They are NOS black plates.  I'll probably order these, unless someone has a suggestion for something better.  Thanks for the replies so far.


----------



## mikemalter

jc9394 
   
  How do you like your PWD?  What did you have previously?
   
  Really nice photos.
   
  What is your headphone?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Yes, I swapped the tubes this morning, putting the DuMont in the left channel, and the problem followed it there--after 3 or 4 minutes, it didn't fade out as before, but this time it began to crackle and pop.  I turned the volume down, switched everything off, and after a cooling period, I swapped my Sylvania 6EW7s back in--all is fine.  So I know this is a defective tube.  So where can I find a nice, not too expensive matched pair of 6FD7s?
> 
> I see that Tube World has a pair of Sylvania 6FD7 Big Bottle (rebranded GE) for $25.00.  They are NOS black plates.  I'll probably order these, unless someone has a suggestion for something better.  Thanks for the replies so far.


 
   
  http://us.ebid.net/for-sale/nos-6fd7-vacuum-tube-valve-26990411.htm
   
  Ask the seller to get you both are same brand and ask for Sylvania if he still have any.  I will buy an extra pair if possible.  6FD7 are hard to find now...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> jc9394
> 
> How do you like your PWD?  What did you have previously?
> 
> ...


 

 Love my PWD, it is very detail and musical.  I have Pico, DacMagic, DA11, DAC1 PRE before I finally settle down on PWD.  I found a brand new PWD at AGon and can not refuse the price.  No just waiting for the bridge.  I'm using HD800.


----------



## dannie01

Very nice pics, John.


----------



## mikemalter

Currently I have a PS Audio DL-III and am thinking of upgrading to the PWD and bridge.
   
  What cabling are you using for your balanced HD800.  I am using Cardas.

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Love my PWD, it is very detail and musical.  I have Pico, DacMagic, DA11, DAC1 PRE before I finally settle down on PWD.  I found a brand new PWD at AGon and can not refuse the price.  No just waiting for the bridge.  I'm using HD800.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 

 Nice handsome setup. You captured the glow of the tubes nicely. What kind of camera did you use? Whenever I use natural ambient light I can never get the glow to show up.
   
  I have the same adapters from Glenn but my green wires are on opposite sides so that they do not face the EML. I think you need to swap the tubes/adapters so that the wires face away from the rectifier. Yes?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Very nice pics, John.


 

 Thanks...

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Currently I have a PS Audio DL-III and am thinking of upgrading to the PWD and bridge.
> 
> What cabling are you using for your balanced HD800.  I am using Cardas.


 

 I use Whiplash TWag X-series, I prefer using silver cable with tube amp.  I tried the Blue Dragon but did not like it as much as TWag.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Nice handsome setup. You captured the glow of the tubes nicely. What kind of camera did you use? Whenever I use natural ambient light I can never get the glow to show up.
> 
> I have the same adapters from Glenn but my green wires are on opposite sides so that they do not face the EML. I think you need to swap the tubes/adapters so that the wires face away from the rectifier. Yes?


 

 Nikon D200, hoping Nikon will update the D700 so I can get one.  Wife will kill me for that...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I turn the cable so it won't touch the EML...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


 
  Quote: 





			
				jc9394 said:
			
		

> Nikon D200, hoping Nikon will update the D700 so I can get one.  Wife will kill me for that...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well you can get away with buying tubes by telling her the tubes are old light bulbs but how do you explain a new D700?
   
  It is good that you turned the cables so that it doesn't touch the EML but if you switch the adapters the cables will actually face away from the EML without twisting the cap. Of course it is your personal perference because it works either way.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well you can get away with buying tubes by telling her the tubes are old light bulbs but how do you explain a new D700?


 
  It's easy.
   
  What D200, no, it's a D700, the same camera, never buy anything new.


----------



## jc9394

You are right, I never consider swapping the adapter. No, the D700, she will kill me. She knows camera as she use the camera more than me.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> It's easy.
> 
> What D200, no, it's a D700, the same camera, never buy anything new.







 I only wish is that easy on camera. Her brother in law is a pro and when she take out a camera better than his normal camera, I bet he will have a comment on it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You are right, I never consider swapping the adapter. No, the D700, she will kill me. She knows camera as she use the camera more than me.


 

 You could always give her the D700 as a Christmas gift or for her birthday and then she'll be very happy and perhaps won't kill you as much!!! Okay--maybe not. But it's worth a try, right?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You are right, I never consider swapping the adapter. No, the D700, she will kill me. She knows camera as she use the camera more than me.


 

 That's why I walk away from any good camera, the headfi rig is killing me, no more expensive camera. I would be happy with a fancy "idiot" camera, will get a Panasonic LX-3 for some better pic than my crappy Casio.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You could always give her the D700 as a Christmas gift or for her birthday and then she'll be very happy and perhaps won't kill you as much!!! Okay--maybe not. But it's worth a try, right?


 


 What a great idea, Clayton.


----------



## dmac03

jc939, I am really digging the set up. I think I may start working toward something similar. 
   
  Jack strongly recommended the 7236 tube (more than any other tube upgrade) to me when he sold me the amp. Will the TS 5998 have all the benefits of the 7236, such as increased power output? Also, is $100 a fair price for a pair for TS 5998's?
   
  Also, my left channel keeps crackling, for a few seconds every minute or so. I am suspecting a bad power tube. Any advice on nailing down the culprit?
   
  (Sorry for all the questions head-fier's. This is my first headphone amp ever).


----------



## jc9394

Never tried 7236 but with TS5998 and PWD as source, I'm listening on step 2, 3 the most. With GEC 6080, mg listening level is 4-5. So I don't need any more power. 

 I did notice a hum between half way to max, at below 50% and max, it is dead quiet.

 What source you are using now.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> You could always give her the D700 as a Christmas gift or for her birthday and then she'll be very happy and perhaps won't kill you as much!!! Okay--maybe not. But it's worth a try, right?







 I will try that, if you see me posting next year that mean she did not kill me.


----------



## dmac03

I have a bad source compared to the equipment I'm using it with. I'm using the rca out of my xonar essence stx. Within a month or two I am definitely upgrading, but its difficult to afford purchasing an amp, headphones, and a dac all at the same time.


----------



## jc9394

Check a'gon, the PWD are less than 2K.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did notice a hum between half way to max, at below 50% and max, it is dead quiet.


 


 Wierd, it's dead quiet whatever tubes I put into it, what tubes caused hum?


----------



## jc9394

No idea, I have not try to root it our yet. I never turn it over 5, so it does not brother me. The tube combo is 5998, 5F8G, and Sophia. I will try a different recitifier EML 274B tonight.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I think Che found the 6FD7 to give him more gain, which could explain the potential for more noise.


 

 Indeed the 6FD7 is higher gain (with a mu of 64 compared to 17.5 for a 6DE7/6EW7 or 20 for a 6SN7), but the part where I get confused is why it does not introduce noise issues on the WA6 but it does on the WA6SE.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I see that Tube World has a pair of Sylvania 6FD7 Big Bottle (rebranded GE) for $25.00.  They are NOS black plates.  I'll probably order these, unless someone has a suggestion for something better.  Thanks for the replies so far.


 

 Those Sylvania rebrands are a good bet.  Stay away from the actual GE 6FD7s (the glass tapers in at the bottom on them so they are easy to spot) since they don't sound very good.  Of course that is only my opinion, but even if you are fine with the tone (which I wasn't) the muddy bass would not go unnoticed for sure. 
   
  jc's link would be a good source, except the seller states the tubes are untested.  If the tube were to have a short it could damage the amp, so there is a degree of risk in running untested tubes.


----------



## MuppetFace

Hello all you lovely Woo owners. I've been really itching to get into tube amps for a while now, and I've decided tonight listening to my LCD-2 that I am probably going to forgo my plans of buying an HE-6 for a while and just spend that money getting a WA6SE for my LCD-2 and other headphones.
   
  I've heard that low impedance headphones and tube amps generally don't play nicely together, but since the WA6SE has a low impedance jack, I imagine it sounds nice with a more diverse set of cans which makes it a particularly good option for me.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

muppetface said:


> Hello all you lovely Woo owners. I've been really itching to get into tube amps for a while now, and I've decided tonight listening to my LCD-2 that I am probably going to forgo my plans of buying an HE-6 for a while and just spend that money getting a WA6SE for my LCD-2 and other headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 Transformer coupled tube amps do pretty well with low impedance phones. So do tube hybrids.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Indeed the 6FD7 is higher gain (with a mu of 64 compared to 17.5 for a 6DE7/6EW7 or 20 for a 6SN7), but the part where I get confused is why it does not introduce noise issues on the WA6 but it does on the WA6SE.


 

 mainly because the SE puts out 5x more power @ 300 ohms than the wa6 on paper. in reality, it's most likely less than that.
   
  1200mW vs 380mW at 32ohms
  1000mW vs 200mW at 100 ohms
  900mW vs 180mw at 300 ohms


----------



## ImitationOfLife

I really doubt my tubes are going bad this early, but I keep hearing a high pitched noise that lasts 5 seconds or less in the left driver of my HD650.
   
  Any thoughts? I know tubes are bad if I hear distortion, the sound becomes muddy, or if they start to look cloudy, but what could this problem be?


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> But, one problem; after listening for awhile, the right channel gradually faded out.  The left channel kept working properly.  I listened for any noise or other problems, and heard nothing.  All of the tubes were still glowing properly.  (The DuMont tube was in the right channel socket).  Worried, I shut the amp off, let everything cool down for 15-20 minutes, then went back and removed the 6DF7s, and replaced them with my original 6EW7s.  After powering up, everything was fine again.
> 
> Obviously this is a problem with one of the tubes, but now, I'm wondering if my WA6SE is capable of operating with the 6DF7s.  I've read here that older models needed a modification to work with this tube, but I thought mine (February 2010 build) was new enough to be compatible.
> 
> So, two questions; can I safely run the EML 5U4G and 6FD7s with my WA6SE?  And if so, where can I get a nice, matched pair?  I really like this combination, and from what I've read, everything will improve even more after 80-100 hours.  Thanks in advance for any advice anyone here can give.


 
  I had similar problem with the WA6.  I did some troubleshooting and it's just one tube that does that.  It worked like this one mine: when first powered up, it wouldn't work at first, but after 10 min of heating up it runs fine.  It works perfectly now but if I ever disconnect the tubes this issue happens again, and some "burn in turn on time" is required to heat it up and get it to work properly the first time it's reconnected.
   
  Just  a lil weird.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Transformer coupled tube amps do pretty well with low impedance phones. So do tube hybrids.


 
   
  Right - this is very important.  Several of the tube amps I have are actually much better with LOW impedance headphones that with high impedance, since they are transformer-coupled, and the headphone output is optimized for loads in the 30-80 ohm region. 
   
  Further, as I learned from KWKarth recently, one of the main issues low impedance headphones have with Output Transformerless (OTL) tube amps is that OTL amps typically have a quite high output impedance, which can cause damping factor issues - but this only impeacts dynamic headphones - it's not an issue for cans like the LCD-2.  Only power delivery ability at their rated impedance really matters (other than the overall quality of the sound, of course).
   
  Anyway, all that said, the WA6SE would be terrific I'm sure - I like the LCD-2 on my maxxed WA6 standard version.


----------



## mikemalter

I just ordered an EML from Jack for my WA22.  It will be interesting to compare it to the Sophia.  I've been reading comments here about how good the EML is and that it is superior to the Sophia. Jack says he is taking orders for them now, and that they should be receiving them in two weeks.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right - this is very important.  Several of the tube amps I have are actually much better with LOW impedance headphones that with high impedance, since they are transformer-coupled, and the headphone output is optimized for loads in the 30-80 ohm region.
> 
> Further, as I learned from KWKarth recently, one of the main issues low impedance headphones have with Output Transformerless (OTL) tube amps is that OTL amps typically have a quite high output impedance, which can cause damping factor issues - but this only impeacts dynamic headphones - it's not an issue for cans like the LCD-2.  Only power delivery ability at their rated impedance really matters (other than the overall quality of the sound, of course).
> 
> Anyway, all that said, the WA6SE would be terrific I'm sure - I like the LCD-2 on my maxxed WA6 standard version.


 

 Thanks HeadphoneAddict and Skylab! I'm going to try to get the most out of my LCD-2 (within my budget) by going for the WA6SE and upgrading the LCD-2's stock cable.
   
  I think I'm going to go for the Sophia Princess, too.
   
  @ Skylab: Would you mind sharing how your Edition 8 sounds from your maxed WA6 non-SE? I would be ever so grateful.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks HeadphoneAddict and Skylab! I'm going to try to get the most out of my LCD-2 (within my budget) by going for the WA6SE and upgrading the LCD-2's stock cable.
> 
> I think I'm going to go for the Sophia Princess, too.
> 
> @ Skylab: Would you mind sharing how your Edition 8 sounds from your maxed WA6 non-SE? I would be ever so grateful.


 

 It sounds quite good.  The WA6 likes headphones in the 30-80 ohm range best.  It works decently with my 600 ohm Beyers, but it's not at its best there.  But the Edition 8's sound quite good on the WA6.
   
  One word of caution - the Sophia is a bit of a bright sounding tube.  Just something to keep in mind.  I MUCH prefer the sound of the WA6 with my vintage/NOS 5U4G than I did with the Sophia.  One of those rare "cheaper AND better" moments.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It sounds quite good.  The WA6 likes headphones in the 30-80 ohm range best.  It works decently with my 600 ohm Beyers, but it's not at its best there.  But the Edition 8's sound quite good on the WA6.
> 
> One word of caution - the Sophia is a bit of a bright sounding tube.  Just something to keep in mind.  I MUCH prefer the sound of the WA6 with my vintage/NOS 5U4G than I did with the Sophia.  One of those rare "cheaper AND better" moments.


 

 Thank you so much for the impressions and advice. I'll look into some alternative tubes as well.
   
  One thing I'm most excited about is experimenting with different tubes. I love trying out different sounds with my music, so this seems perfect for me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thank you so much for the impressions and advice. I'll look into some alternative tubes as well.
> 
> One thing I'm most excited about is experimenting with different tubes. I love trying out different sounds with my music, so this seems perfect for me.


 

 Tube rolling is GREAT fun...and tube collecting is HIGHLY addicting...


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thank you so much for the impressions and advice. I'll look into some alternative tubes as well.
> 
> One thing I'm most excited about is experimenting with different tubes. I love trying out different sounds with my music, so this seems perfect for me.


 

 I HIGHLY recommend going with a EML 5U4G rectifier instead of Sophia ! I've got 2 sophia princess and both died in about one year!
  Also EML sounds so much nicer


----------



## mikemalter

I had problems with my Sophia when I first got my WA22.  Jack was kind enough to get involved with those guys and they send me another tube.  His reply?  He said he would talk to those people about quality, "again." 
   
  I have not taken it out of the WA22 since because I want no problems.

  
  Quote: 





darku said:


> I HIGHLY recommend going with a EML 5U4G rectifier instead of Sophia ! I've got 2 sophia princess and both died in about one year!
> Also EML sounds so much nicer


----------



## Skylab

Even aside from the reported problems with reliability, the Sophia is bright sounding. I have not tried the EML, but there is no doubt that for me the JAN-Hytron, Sylvania, and Tung-Sol 5U4G all sound better than the Sophia.  I was lured by the Sophia's good looks, but the she's an Ice Princess


----------



## jax

Yet one more thumbs-down for the Sophia.  I tried one out on my WA6SEm - It lasted about a week before I sold it (I'd bought it used so no burn-in issues).  EML 5U4G is a much better tube for the WA6SEm IMO, as are any number of NOS 5U4G variants.  I found the Sophia to soften out the edges and to be weak in the frequency extremes. 
   
  WA6SEm+LCD-2 is a great combination, BTW.  I'm just using the stock cable for now. 
  
  Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks HeadphoneAddict and Skylab! I'm going to try to get the most out of my LCD-2 (within my budget) by going for the WA6SE and upgrading the LCD-2's stock cable.
> 
> I think I'm going to go for the Sophia Princess, too.
> 
> @ Skylab: Would you mind sharing how your Edition 8 sounds from your maxed WA6 non-SE? I would be ever so grateful.


----------



## grokit

How does the Shuguang 274B rectifier compare with the EML and others above on my WA22? The only other rectifiers I have are the Sophia Princess, but it develops a buzz with most headphones after awhile and a Russian 513C which is of an unknown character but reportedly nothing special.


----------



## MuppetFace

I've been thinking about going the extra mile and getting the WA22 instead of the WA6SE. It has high and low impedance switching similar to the different jacks on the 6SE, which I'm hoping would allow me to use a wider range of headphones.
   
  It would allow me to finally try out my Cambridge 840c's balanced output and would solve my problem of needing a decent amp for my K1000 that will be arriving in the mail this coming week. Maybe it would even drive the HE-6 decently enough if I decide to get it down the road? Okay, probably not. Wishful thinking.
   
  Still, the more I think about it, the more the W22 seems like the best all-around option for me right now.


----------



## flaming_june

"better or worse" all subjective.  Sophia is definitely very good if you like the bright sound, smooth and wide.  But if you don't like those attribute in your headphone presentation then you won't like it.  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just ordered an EML from Jack for my WA22.  It will be interesting to compare it to the Sophia.  I've been reading comments here about how good the EML is and that it is superior to the Sophia. Jack says he is taking orders for them now, and that they should be receiving them in two weeks.


 

 How much is Jack charging for eml ?


----------



## SpudHarris

$260 I think.
   
  EML 5U4G is definately better in most aspects compared to the Sophia, but................ the Sophia is still a great tube.
   
  I have a Mullard GZ34 on order which I'm expecting to put the Sophia in 3rd place just in front of Sylvania 5931.


----------



## Audiogalore

240 + 7 for shipping to be exact!


----------



## flaming_june

hm... tubeusa charged me 230 + shipping i believe. for eml 274b


----------



## Xcalibur255

The Sophia tubes are rebranded Full Music from what I have been able to gather.  I've been eyeballing their 6SN7 with some degree of curiosity and keep reading that they are on the dark and romantic side in terms of treble.  Funny how the same company produces a 274B that is widely considered to be bright, but then again you never really know for yourself until you hear it for yourself.  All I know is my EML 274B is spot on with what I want to hear in terms of tonality.


----------



## grokit

So has anybody been able to compare the Shuguang to the EML and/or Princess rectifiers?


----------



## flaming_june

I've been curious too.


----------



## dmac03

Another current production 6sn7 I am interested in is the create audio brand (available from ALO). Since I don't know much about these, I feel like nos is a much safer bet for the price, but I still am itching to find out if they are decent.


----------



## Xcalibur255

6moons did a comarison between Fullmusic and Create.  The reviewer likened the Create sound to that of a modern one: upfront, dynamic, forward.  He compared the Fullmusic sound as being like that of a classic British tube, which makes me curious in a slightly dubious way.  Through eBay the Fullmusic tubes are just affordable enough to be tempting at around $110 a pair.  The Create tubes are $160 for a pair and seem to have the same build quality as the generic Shuguang tubes (who is confirmed to be manufacturing them for Create).


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> I really doubt my tubes are going bad this early, but I keep hearing a high pitched noise that lasts 5 seconds or less in the left driver of my HD650.
> 
> Any thoughts? I know tubes are bad if I hear distortion, the sound becomes muddy, or if they start to look cloudy, but what could this problem be?


 

 No one?


----------



## mikemalter

I can't speak to the WA6SE, but I can for the WA22.  It is the most incredible headphone amp I have ever heard.  I had it at the office for a few months and everyone who heard it was just blown away.  I am really pleased I got it.  I also have a balanced cable to my headphone too.
  
  Quote: 





muppetface said:


> I've been thinking about going the extra mile and getting the WA22 instead of the WA6SE. It has high and low impedance switching similar to the different jacks on the 6SE, which I'm hoping would allow me to use a wider range of headphones.
> 
> It would allow me to finally try out my Cambridge 840c's balanced output and would solve my problem of needing a decent amp for my K1000 that will be arriving in the mail this coming week. Maybe it would even drive the HE-6 decently enough if I decide to get it down the road? Okay, probably not. Wishful thinking.
> 
> Still, the more I think about it, the more the W22 seems like the best all-around option for me right now.


----------



## mikemalter

Jack is charging me $245.00 shipped.
   
  You know, maybe that is why I never liked the Sylvania 5960's in favor of the RCS 6080's.  Maybe it was that the brightness was being caused by the Sophia.  When I get the EML, I am going to put the RCA's back in and see what everything sounds like.
  
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> "better or worse" all subjective.  Sophia is definitely very good if you like the bright sound, smooth and wide.  But if you don't like those attribute in your headphone presentation then you won't like it.
> 
> How much is Jack charging for eml ?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> No one?


 
  If you mean the initial 5 seconds then it goes away then this is probably nothing.  It's normal for tubes to make noise when they are warming up, and not all tubes behave alike.  Also, clouding in the glass isn't necessarily a sign of a tube going bad either.  Getter activity in some tubes will turn the glass smokey and this is normal.  It is just maintaining the integrity of the vacuum by burning off residual gasses in the tube and can occur slowly over many hours of use.


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

So what's the _lowest_ gain drive tube for the WA6SE?
   
   
  Searching through this thread, it seems to be the RCA 6EW7, but I wanted to know if there are any others that are lower.  I have a Westinghouse 6EW7, which is the lowest of the ones that I have now, but I don't know if brands make a difference or not.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Wierd, it's dead quiet whatever tubes I put into it, what tubes caused hum?


 

 It is not the tubes, it was cause the power cable touching the XLR.  Reroute the power cable take care of it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> I've been thinking about going the extra mile and getting the WA22 instead of the WA6SE. It has high and low impedance switching similar to the different jacks on the 6SE, which I'm hoping would allow me to use a wider range of headphones.
> 
> It would allow me to finally try out my Cambridge 840c's balanced output and would solve my problem of needing a decent amp for my K1000 that will be arriving in the mail this coming week. Maybe it would even drive the HE-6 decently enough if I decide to get it down the road? Okay, probably not. Wishful thinking.
> 
> Still, the more I think about it, the more the W22 seems like the best all-around option for me right now.


 
   
  Just do it if you have a balanced source, it will only save you money in the future.  It is more upgrade proof than the WA6SE.  I'm think about picking up the K1000 in the for sale forums but I need to sell my Phoenix to fund it.  Wife is not too happy with my "Premium Old Light Bulb" purchase lately.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you mean the initial 5 seconds then it goes away then this is probably nothing.  It's normal for tubes to make noise when they are warming up, and not all tubes behave alike.  Also, clouding in the glass isn't necessarily a sign of a tube going bad either.  Getter activity in some tubes will turn the glass smokey and this is normal.  It is just maintaining the integrity of the vacuum by burning off residual gasses in the tube and can occur slowly over many hours of use.


 

 If you are getting a high-pitched whine intermittently, that can be a form of microphonics, actually.  If it really bothers you, you might want to try a new tube, of you have one around, or if we are talking about the WA6 which uses very inexpensive driver tubes, buy a new pair.


----------



## dmac03

Has anyone tried the cetron 7236 tubes? I am trying to get my hands on a pair of tungsol 7236's but (after calling 5 places) they are very hard to come by. I am just wanting a confirmation that the cetron will sound identical to the original tungsol's.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is not the tubes, it was cause the power cable touching the XLR.  Reroute the power cable take care of it.


 

 Great.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Has anyone tried the cetron 7236 tubes? I am trying to get my hands on a pair of tungsol 7236's but (after calling 5 places) they are very hard to come by. I am just wanting a confirmation that the cetron will sound identical to the original tungsol's.


 

 They should.  Cetron bought Tung-Sol, and continued to make many of the tubes that Tung-Sol was making for quite some time, especially the computer-rated tubes like the 7236.


----------



## Skylab

I apologize in advance is the below irritates anyone by seeming too off-topic, but about a year ago I did a bunch of research into the history of Tung-Sol and Cetron, and thought it might be of interest:
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=12pt]TUNG-SOL:[/size]
> Founded as the Tung-Sol Lamp Works Inc., Newark 4, New Jersey, U.S.A., changed to Tung-Sol Electric Inc. in 1951 (Electron Tube Division, Bloomfield, New Jersey, U.S.A., approx. 1958. Address changed to: One Summer Avenue, Newark 4, New Jersey, U.S.A., approx. 1962).
> Tung-Sol was a manufacturer of lamps and vacuum tubes in Newark, New Jersey.
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I apologize in advance is the below irritates anyone by seeming too off-topic, but about a year ago I did a bunch of research into the history of Tung-Sol and Cetron, and thought it might be of interest:


 

 This is great stuff. It will be my "CliffsNotes" of sorts for Tung-Sol and Cetron. Thanks, Skylab.


----------



## dmac03

Thanks skylab, I think I will give the cetrons a shot. Before I do so, does anybody know where the heck I can acquire some nos tung-sol 7236's?


----------



## grokit

I am still trying to see how my Shuguang 274B rectifier compares to any other tube in its category but am starting to realize that perhaps I am the only one who has heard it which is unfortunate, as it is my reference for a rectifier tube in my WA22. I have a couple of others that don't work as well plus a backup of the Shuguang.
   
  My needs are to go in the opposite direction than where I have read the Sophia Princess would take me, which has been recently described as "bright sounding, smooth and wide". The closest I can find to a description to the Shuguang sound is a general description of the Create brand tube sound, which is "upfront, dynamic, forward"; I interpret this as having a similar sound as the Princess.
   
  I want to go for more of a warmish yet fully extended low end, with smoothness in the mids and highs as a priority, to compensate for what I hear as the "bright sounding, smooth and wide" characteristics of my HD800 headphones. Would that lead me to go the Tung Sol route, or try the EML for a rectifier?
   
  I recently switched from a Sylvania to a TS 7236 for power and am using a Shanguang Treasure driver tube (CV181Z/6SN7GT). I have a few other tubes rolling around like some Zenith drivers and and some others that I have not tried yet, but really am a bit lost as how to combine which tubes and in what way and what are the best tubes to look for to achieve my listening goals.
   
  Besides the rectifier question outlined above, I am certain that I like the additional power that the 7236 tubes provide over the 6AS7 varieties, but would like to know if the 7236 is the only type of tube that offers this additional wattage or are there others to keep an eye out for?
   
  And what would be a good starting point if I want to look into another type of driver tube besides the Shuguang? I have the Zeniths, and some RCA black plates but nothing special as far as I can tell. What else should I be looking at? I can't afford to just buy a bunch of tubes willy-nilly that I may never end up using...


----------



## Skylab

The 5998 has a higher transconductance than the 6AS7G just like the 7236 does.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am still trying to see how my Shuguang 274B rectifier compares to any other tube in its category but am starting to realize that perhaps I am the only one who has heard it which is unfortunate, as it is my reference for a rectifier tube in my WA22. I have a couple of others that don't work as well plus a backup of the Shuguang.
> 
> My needs are to go in the opposite direction than where I have read the Sophia Princess would take me, which has been recently described as "bright sounding, smooth and wide". The closest I can find to a description to the Shuguang sound is a general description of the Create brand tube sound, which is "upfront, dynamic, forward"; I interpret this as having a similar sound as the Princess.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm in the same exact boat for driver tubes. I've ordered some inexpensive rca and sylvania's to hold me over for awhile, but I'd love to get my hands on a pair of tsrp's or sylvania 6sn7w's.  Tubeseller has some pretty good info about them as does our own 6sn7 reference thread.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I'm in the same exact boat for driver tubes. I've ordered some inexpensive rca and sylvania's to hold me over for awhile, but I'd love to get my hands on a pair of tsrp's or sylvania 6sn7w's.  Tubeseller has some pretty good info about them as does our own 6sn7 reference thread.


 

 Those are both really helpful links, thanks!


----------



## mikemalter

Grokit,
   
  I have the same issues as you.  For power tubes, I had to replace a pair of Sylvania 5960's with RCA 6080's when using a Sophia as a rectifier.  I have Shanguang Treasure drivers.
   
  I've just ordered an EML rectifier from Jack and it should be here sometime in the next two weeks.  I'm hoping that with the EML in I might be able to listen with the Sylvania's on board.  If not I am going to sell them.  Even with a Sennheiser 650, I can't handle the Sylvania's.
   
  Right now, even with what people say is the Sophia's etched high end, the RCA power tubes seem to smooth out the mix to where I am really happy with the Shanguang drivers and the Sophia rectifier.  I am not feeling compelled to order the EML to balance out or fix my WA22's sound.  It's more out of curiosity than anything else.
   
  So, you may want to try the RCA 6080's.  I understand they are not very expensive, although I don't know what the actual cost is as they
  were included in the WA22 price.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am still trying to see how my Shuguang 274B rectifier compares to any other tube in its category but am starting to realize that perhaps I am the only one who has heard it which is unfortunate, as it is my reference for a rectifier tube in my WA22. I have a couple of others that don't work as well plus a backup of the Shuguang.
> 
> My needs are to go in the opposite direction than where I have read the Sophia Princess would take me, which has been recently described as "bright sounding, smooth and wide". The closest I can find to a description to the Shuguang sound is a general description of the Create brand tube sound, which is "upfront, dynamic, forward"; I interpret this as having a similar sound as the Princess.
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

About $8 plus any shipping charge.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> 
> So, you may want to try the RCA 6080's.  I understand they are not very expensive, although I don't know what the actual cost is as they
> were included in the WA22 price.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> I have the same issues as you.  For power tubes, I had to replace a pair of Sylvania 5960's with RCA 6080's when using a Sophia as a rectifier.  I have Shanguang Treasure drivers.
> 
> ...


 
   

 Thanks for the suggestion. I have a pair of Raytheon 6080 laying around, they have silver tops and I do not know how they compare to the Zenith 6080 I also have laying around. But rolling 6080s in would decrease my power too much, plus I'm not really looking to use my Sophia anyways. So I suppose my next choices are crystallizing on whether to try an EMS or NOS 274B variant like the WE rectifier in place of the Shuguang, or to pursue the legendary TSRP or some other kind of NOS VT231 like the Ken-Rad. I think!


----------



## Skylab

mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> I have the same issues as you.  For power tubes, I had to replace a pair of Sylvania 5960's with RCA 6080's






 I have never heard of a 5960. Do you have a picture?


----------



## Xcalibur255

So Cetron still produces tubes today?  Interesting.  I wonder why they didn't get control of the Tung Sol brand name considering the lineage.


----------



## Skylab

Richardson Electronics still sells tubes, but I am not sure they make any. Why Richardson sold the Tung-Sol brand to New Sensor Corp, I am not sure either. I called Richardson a year or so ago and was able to order some tubes right over the phone - some US made 6DJ8's and 12AU7's. But their 12AX7's they had were all Chinese.


----------



## mikemalter

Are you serious, $8.00!!!  What a hoot.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> About $8 plus any shipping charge.


----------



## mikemalter

I'll post my impressions when I get my EML from Jack.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I have a pair of Raytheon 6080 laying around, they have silver tops and I do not know how they compare to the Zenith 6080 I also have laying around. But rolling 6080s in would decrease my power too much, plus I'm not really looking to use my Sophia anyways. So I suppose my next choices are crystallizing on whether to try an EMS or NOS 274B variant like the WE rectifier in place of the Shuguang, or to pursue the legendary TSRP or some other kind of NOS VT231 like the Ken-Rad. I think!


----------



## Icenine2

What brand of power cord does everyone use for their Woo?  I just bought a Shunyata Venom for the WA6E I'm going to order in a few weeks.


----------



## MuppetFace

I've decided to order a WA22 with upgraded tubes. My K1000 arrived in the mail yesterday, and I've fallen in love with it. Completely head-over-heels. And that's coming out of the Meier Audio Concerto, which is surprisingly decent with them but obviously limited. The WA22 should really do it justice, and hopefully it'll sound really good with most of my other headphones (balanced L3000, Edition 10, LCD-2) thanks to the variable high/low gain switch. 
   
  After that it's just a matter of exercising enough self-control to save up for the WES.


----------



## jc9394

Congrats, you will love the WA22.  It is a great amp.  Please let me know how it will sound with LCD-2, I'm still on the waiting list.  Did you get the EML 5U4G?  If not, ask Jack to get you that instead of Sophia Princess.


----------



## dannie01

Welcome to the club.
   
  And yes, agree with jc, order the EML 5U4G instead of Sophia for your WA22 and you'll love it.


----------



## dmac03

And the 7236 tubes are a must for the extra oomph for you K1000's


----------



## Skylab

7236's or 5998's.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 7236's or 5998's.


 


 I vote for 5998s.


----------



## grokit

WooHoo WA22, great choice!


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> I vote for 5998s.







 X2, I can only use 3 clicks with HD800.


----------



## hodgjy

$2.00 14-gauge Monoprice.  Electrons move through it just fine.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> What brand of power cord does everyone use for their Woo?  I just bought a Shunyata Venom for the WA6E I'm going to order in a few weeks.


----------



## hodgjy

This is my most used power triode in my Woo 3.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I vote for 5998s.


----------



## Icenine2

That's the new Venom 3.  Music Direct has a deal on them for $99 I couldn't pass on.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

I wasn't referring to the of whine when I turn on the amp. For some reason it was making high-pitched noises a couple days ago, but it seems to have stop. I think it may have been interference from something, but I don't really know.


----------



## flaming_june

Sometimes tubes act that way I think.  I had problems with one tube.  Letting it warm up for 5 minutes before using just cured the problem.  Now it never happens.


----------



## hodgjy

Light and other electromagnetic radiation do cause interference in tubes.  Was your cell phone or wireless router (if you have one) near your amp?  Also, some tubes just squeal when they are new, but running them in a bit gets them to settle down.
   
  Quote: 





imitationoflife said:


> I wasn't referring to the of whine when I turn on the amp. For some reason it was making high-pitched noises a couple days ago, but it seems to have stop. I think it may have been interference from something, but I don't really know.


----------



## K_19

I have to say I'm warming up to the EML 5U4G, even with the HD800... I just have to be selective with my material and source.  On smooth, analog-sounding sources such as the original Playstation as a CD player (very warm and clear mids, though it does roll off extremes... which is actually probably a good thing with HD800), it sounds ultra smooth while remaining sharp and precise enough in the treble area.  No annoying treble peaks at all with this setup.  And I'd think this is my brain burning in but it's starting to sound smoother and tighter overall as it burns in as well.
   
  Got an LCD-2 on the way now and I can't wait to see how well WA6SE will amp it.


----------



## jc9394

Lucky... I'm still waiting on my pair.


----------



## gknix

I just added some Full Music (Sophia Electric) 6SN7 to my WA6se with Glenn's adaptors. Upon using them, the music was much more expansive and felt more dynamic with my LCD-2s. However, after couple hours, there was a very LOUD hum that I can't get rid off. I decided to turn it off and turn it on again after some cooling period and it persisted.
   
  I thought of several possible scenarios:
  -Bad contact
  -Bad tubes
   
  I used deoxit gold to clean it last night, and theres a very slight hum still around. Should I clean it once more? Or could it be that glenn's adaptor does not have very good contact?
  I hypothesize that they arn't bad tubes because the hum noise is inconsistent (loud and soft at different times). Also, when I bought them from a tube shop, I asked him to check them for me and the meter was showed that the tubes were good.
   
  Does anyone have a problem with their WA6/SE? 
   
   
  ****Edit****
  I don't think it has to do with Glenn's adaptor as I tried swapping the tubes and the adaptors, as wel as switching the positions of the tubes and it seems like it's one of the tubes' problem. I am going back to the shop tomorrow to swap for a new pair and see how it goes.
   
  ~~~Edit 2~~~
  Hum/buzz noise is gone all of a sudden. What's happening?


----------



## hodgjy

Welcome to tube voodoo.  Tubes are as predictable as the weather 2 years from now.  Sometimes, they just need to be run in.  Sometimes, interference from radio waves, cell phones, wireless routers, garage door openers, or microwave ovens can make tubes do weird things.  Sometimes the tube gods accept your sacrifice and are pleased, making your tubes sound stunningly.
  
  Quote: 





gknix said:


> ~~~Edit 2~~~
> Hum/buzz noise is gone all of a sudden. What's happening?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Welcome to tube voodoo.  Tubes are as predictable as the weather 2 years from now.  Sometimes, they just need to be run in.  Sometimes, interference from radio waves, cell phones, wireless routers, garage door openers, or microwave ovens can make tubes do weird things.  Sometimes the tube gods accept your sacrifice and are pleased, making your tubes sound stunningly.


 

 It depends, my wireless router sitting less than 1 meter from my WA5LE but no hiss, hum or interference at all so far.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hey guys,
   
  I planned to buy another pair of TS BGRP to fix the microphnics problem, so I visited one of the tube dealer today. ( the one jc9394 also mailed before )
  He tested my TS BGRP which were not bought from him, and confirmed this pair is quite new and fine.
  He suggested me not to buy additional pairs of TS BGRP, my ones are ok and I can enjoy them for years, unless I want to stockpile BGRP and make money later....
   
  So, my serious microphonic symptom was not fixed.
  It either came from Glenn's adapter or my WA6SE.
  However, my WA6SE works well with stock 6DE7 and 6EW7.
   
  I have mailed Glenn and asked him to make another pair of adapters for me.
  Hopefully, it solves the problem once for all.
   
   
   
  Since I visited the tube dealer, I got something new for my WA6SE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   

   

   
  Unfortunately, it came with the same microphonics problem as expected. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will see how much bass enhancement this Ken-rad can provide...


----------



## jc9394

Nice score, I'm looking for a pair too.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hi John,
   
  PM received and replied.
   
  Regards;
  Ivan.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I planned to buy another pair of TS BGRP to fix the microphnics problem, so I visited one of the tube dealer today. ( the one jc9394 also mailed before )
> He tested my TS BGRP which were not bought from him, and confirmed this pair is quite new and fine.
> ...


 

 I just bought a pair just like your Ken-Rad and they have a very powerful bass. I found the they suite best open and semi-open headphones like my HD800 and T1 briging a nice bass to them but they have too mcuh bass for closed cans like my D7000, DX1000 and Edition 9..
   
  I will probably use these tubes when I listen to the T1 and HD800 and use my Sylvania Brown Base, Chrome Tops 6SN7WGT for my closed cans. I also have a pair of TS BG/RP and I find them rigth in the middel between the Sylvania and Ken-Rad being an excellent all arounders for all headphones types.


----------



## Cyberevo

Hi musicman59,
   
  Thanks for sharing your experience.
  I am listening to this new Ken-rad with HD800, but the bass is not powerful at this moment.(the amount of low frequency is less than TS, but somehow it feels warm)
  Soundstage is not wide and the "shape" of music is not as sharp as TS.
  Need more burn-in to justify it.
   
   
  As to the Sylvania Chrome Tops 6SN7WGT, I also checked it with the dealer today.( I asked for 6SN7W without metal base.)
  Dealer said the tall 6SN7W are far better than the short ones.
  But I am worry it may not be suitable to my HD800.
   
  The dealer was very kind, he said I could bring them home and test them.
  If I like them, I pay, if I don't, just send them back.
  However, this is not something I would do, I will definitely pay even I don't like them....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Your PM was replied.
   
  Regards;
  Ivan.


----------



## flaming_june

woah. very nice.  lol 1944 navy and army grade.
   
   
  "274B *don't use chinese variance with 4.0A" - jack
   
  I guess that's a no on the shuguang 274b rectifiers for WA6 and SEs.


----------



## dannie01

Ivan, I'm pretty sure you, John and me are sharing the same source for some good "old light bulbs".


----------



## jc9394

Yup, I probably need help from both you and Ivan...
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Ivan, I'm pretty sure you, John and me are sharing the same source fo some good "old light bulbs".


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yup, I probably need help from both you and Ivan...


 


 No problem, anytime.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





gknix said:


> I just added some Full Music (Sophia Electric) 6SN7 to my WA6se with Glenn's adaptors. Upon using them, the music was much more expansive and felt more dynamic with my LCD-2s. However, after couple hours, there was a very LOUD hum that I can't get rid off. I decided to turn it off and turn it on again after some cooling period and it persisted.
> 
> I thought of several possible scenarios:
> -Bad contact
> ...


 

 I had this problem myself, only mine was worse in that the channel which was humming was also not making any music.  It ended up being in the adapter, and after contacting Glenn he made a replacement which cured the issue.  It wasn't any fault of his in terms of assembly work, but rather the type of socket employed seemed to have some tolerance issues which was causing the pins on some tubes to not make good contact.  My greyglass RCA always worked on the bad adapter, but eventually none of my other 6SN7 would, telling me that as more tubes were pulled in and out of the socket whichever pin was the culprit was getting worse because the contact pressure was lessening.  The replacement adapter from Glenn used a different socket top which grips more strongly and I haven't had any problems since.  Glenn was very helpful and responsive through the whole thing I might add.  I've been meaning to buy a second pair of adapters from him so I don't have to pull them off the tubes quite as often.
   
  edit:  when you get a chance it would be great to hear more impressions on the Full Music tubes.  I've had a gut feeling that these might be a good option to try out, but since I already have several tubes I'm happy with I am hesitant to spend that much money just to satisfy curiosity.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I planned to buy another pair of TS BGRP to fix the microphnics problem, so I visited one of the tube dealer today. ( the one jc9394 also mailed before )
> He tested my TS BGRP which were not bought from him, and confirmed this pair is quite new and fine.
> ...


 

 The WA6SE's up until just recently are not compatible with the 6SN7's, so yes I would have Glen get you the right adapter for your 6SN7's. And don't forget there is a possibility of harming you Woo.
  Its for that reason why I would never use my TSBGRP's in my WA6SE, and like wise I would never use a adapter for tubes in my WA5LE.
  With both my WA5LE and my WA6SE I found tubes that work very well, but still staying with the type of tubes that the amp was made for.

  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just bought a pair just like your Ken-Rad and they have a very powerful bass. I found the they suite best open and semi-open headphones like my HD800 and T1 briging a nice bass to them but they have too mcuh bass for closed cans like my D7000, DX1000 and Edition 9..
> 
> I will probably use these tubes when I listen to the T1 and HD800 and use my Sylvania Brown Base, Chrome Tops 6SN7WGT for my closed cans. I also have a pair of TS BG/RP and I find them rigth in the middel between the Sylvania and Ken-Rad being an excellent all arounders for all headphones types.


 

 Yep the TSBGRP are a very nice match for your WA5LE as a drive tube, now all you have to do is work on your power tubes and you will never look back.


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> The WA6SE's up until just recently are not compatible with the 6SN7's, so yes I would have Glen get you the right adapter for your 6SN7's. And don't forget there is a possibility of harming you Woo.
> ...


 
   
 [size=medium]Dear Sillysally:
   
Glenn already added one resistor and one capacitor in his adapters for my WA6SE.
However, I am afraid there may be some "short" of the pins or internal circuit in the adapter.
Glenn made a very strong and solid adapter, so I can't open it to see where is the problem.
I have asked him to make me another new pair.
   
The other possibility could be the top cover of WA6SE.
The "holes" for 6DE7 are a little small, and the centers of the cover holes are not aligned to the centers of tube sockets.
When I insert the adapters, they can fit tight on the sockets but contact the cover metal at the same time.
The vibration could transfer from the top cover to adapters, so it was not helping at all when I attached tube dampers on my TS.
I will try to remove the cover to test it, hopefully I won't damage my WA6SE.
   
There is another thing makes me wonder it is an electric issue rather than a physical vibration issue.
The most serious microphonics symptom occurred when I lightly knock the center of the volume knob by my fingernails.
When power is ON, even the volume is OFF, I can hear the magnified noise on the amp, especially when I touch HD800's cable and volume knob.
These 2 positions make the biggest echo sound than knocking any other position of my WA6SE.
   
I can't find any alternative 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 here in Taiwan, so 6SN7 is the option to upgrade my WA6SE, especially after taste it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yep the TSBGRP are a very nice match for your WA5LE as a drive tube, now all you have to do is work on your power tubes and you will never look back.






Yes, the TSBGRP is also a very nice(maybe the best) for my WA6SE, that is why I will try my best to solve this microphonics problem.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
Thanks,
Ivan.​[/size]


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Ivan, I'm pretty sure you, John and me are sharing the same source for some good "old light bulbs".






 Yep.
  The dealer is quite a nice guy.
  He said I can bring tubes back home and pay him later if I do like the tubes.
  It is a very smart way to do business....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yup, I probably need help from both you and Ivan...


 


 No problem.
  But, the only concern is that I can't test them for you in advance.


----------



## jc9394

Finally pull the trigger on a pair of this...
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Tung-Sol-Round-Plate-CTL-6SN7-GT-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/400153817117?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d2b06b01d
   
  Hope it is as good as every said they are...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally pull the trigger on a pair of this...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Tung-Sol-Round-Plate-CTL-6SN7-GT-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/400153817117?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d2b06b01d
> 
> Hope it is as good as every said they are...


 





 It must certainly come with a free headphone amp, yes?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It must certainly come with a free headphone amp, yes?


 


  Yes and a free EML 5U4G too...


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I've been looking for a good matched pair of 6FD7s for my WA6SE.  I currently run it with the EML 5U4G and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s, which in my opinion is a great sounding combination.  It just lacks a little bass impact, which is why I'm interested in the 6FD7s.  
   
  The first pair I got (one GE, one DuMont) sounded good for a few minutes, then the DuMont went dead, causing loss of volume, crackling and popping, etc.
   
  The 2nd pair I picked up are Sylvania (rebranded as GE) from Tube World; these work fine and sound great, but after a couple of hours (probably longer than I would listen at a stretch) a rather loud hum begins in both channels.  The hum does not rise and fall with the volume control; it is constant, and loud enough to be heard over quieter passages of music.  After shutting down, and allowing a cooling period, everything is fine again, for awhile.  
   
  Is this normal with the 6FD7 because of their high gain, or do I have a defective pair?  The hum persists when switching the right and left tubes.  I know my amp is fine, since reinserting my faithful Sylvania 6EW7s solves everything; no hum whatsoever, even after up to 8 hours.
   
  Will I have to settle for my 6EW7s, (which certainly wouldn't be much of a sacrifice) or is there an alternative for better bass, with no hum or other side effects?
   
  (By the way, after around 25-30 hours, the EML 5U4G blows the Sophia rectifier completely out of the water--wider soundstage, warmer mids, smooth treble and slightly bigger low end.)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes and a free EML 5U4G too...


 

 I've heard so much about those TSRP that I am sure you'll really be happy about its purchase. If anything, the box it comes in looks very cool, too. Plus it comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Congratulations.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I've been looking for a good matched pair of 6FD7s for my WA6SE.  I currently run it with the EML 5U4G and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s, which in my opinion is a great sounding combination.  It just lacks a little bass impact, which is why I'm interested in the 6FD7s.
> 
> The first pair I got (one GE, one DuMont) sounded good for a few minutes, then the DuMont went dead, causing loss of volume, crackling and popping, etc.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No noise on my Sylvania 6FD7, did you check with Jack if your WA6SE is compatible with 6FD7?  I would get another pair to test it out.  Yup, the EML 5U4G kick Sophia's ass left and right after burn in.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've heard so much about those TSRP that I am sure you'll really be happy about its purchase. If anything, the box it comes in looks very cool, too. Plus it comes with a *30-day money-back guarantee*. Congratulations.


 

 That is the primary reason I buy it from this seller, hate to drop that much money on a "premium old light bulb" if it arrive DOA or noisy.


----------



## Skylab

That really isn't a pad price at all for those, considering they are NOS and guaranteed!  Pretty cool.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally pull the trigger on a pair of this...
> 
> Hope it is as good as every said they are...


 
  Very OT, but... I think those would make great tattoos. In perfect tattoo-ink blue. One on each arm for a matched pair.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Okay, that might be going just a little too far. And then again....


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No noise on my Sylvania 6FD7, did you check with Jack if your WA6SE is compatible with 6FD7?  I would get another pair to test it out.  Yup, the EML 5U4G kick Sophia's ass left and right after burn in.


 

 No I haven't checked, but considering it was built in January/February of 2010, I assumed that it would be compatible.  I'll have to email him to find out.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Very OT, but... I think those would make great tattoos. In perfect tattoo-ink blue. One on each arm for a matched pair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LMAO!  If I ever get a tattoo, that will be it for sure.  Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Very OT, but... I think those would make great tattoos. In perfect tattoo-ink blue. One on each arm for a matched pair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  Quote: 





skylab said:


> LMAO!  If I ever get a tattoo, that will be it for sure.  Thanks for the suggestion!


 

 I will visit an Ink shop once I'm back from Chicago...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I've been looking for a good matched pair of 6FD7s for my WA6SE.  I currently run it with the EMIL 5U4G and a pair of Sylvan 6WE7s, which in my opinion is a great sounding combination.  It just lacks a little bass impact, which is why I'm interested in the 6FD7s.
> 
> The first pair I got (one GE, one Du Mont) sounded good for a few minutes, then the Du Mont went dead, causing loss of volume, crackling and popping, etc.
> 
> ...


 

 Look at these spec sheets, one is for 6DE7 and the other is for the 6FD7.
   
  http://www.wooaudio.com/docs/tube_data/6DE7.pdf
  http://www.shinjo.info/frank/sheets/049/6/6FD7.pdf
   
  I would not use those 6FD7's
   
  The circa 1963 chrome top and tipped RCA 6EW7 should give you what you are looking for.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Look at these spec sheets, one is for 6DE7 and the other is for the 6FD7.
> 
> http://www.wooaudio.com/docs/tube_data/6DE7.pdf
> http://www.shinjo.info/frank/sheets/049/6/6FD7.pdf
> ...


 
  Thanks for the reply; I'm not sure exactly what to look for on those spec sheets, but I'll take your advice.  I'm quite happy with the EML 5U4G and 6EW7 combo; can you suggest any other substitutes for the 6EW7s that might add a bit more bass impact?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Thanks for the reply; I'm not sure exactly what to look for on those spec sheets, but I'll take your advice.  I'm quite happy with the EML 5U4G and 6EW7 combo; can you suggest any other substitutes for the 6EW7s that might add a bit more bass impact?


 


 If you afraid to use 6FD7, you may want to contact Glenn to make you a 6SN7 to 6DE7 adapter.  I love the Treasures...


----------



## sillysally

>


 


  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Thanks for the reply; I'm not sure exactly what to look for on those spec sheets, but I'll take your advice.  I'm quite happy with the EML 5U4G and 6EW7 combo; can you suggest any other substitutes for the 6EW7s that might add a bit more bass impact?


 

 Sorry I haven't heard any better combo for the WA6SE, and I have tried a lot. And yes I have the Sylvania you are talking about and was not pleased with the bass. Also the RCA will give you a better dimensional sound stage as apposed to the horizontal sound-stage of the Sylvania.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally pull the trigger on a pair of this...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Tung-Sol-Round-Plate-CTL-6SN7-GT-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/400153817117?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d2b06b01d
> 
> Hope it is as good as every said they are...


 

 Nice tubes and at a fair price for those tubes. Looks like a good seller also.
  You did good.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Sorry I haven't heard any better combo for the WA6SE, and I have tried a lot. And yes I have the Sylvania you are talking about and was not pleased with the bass. Also the RCA will give you a better dimensional sound stage as apposed to the horizontal sound-stage of the Sylvania.


 

 So RCA 6EW7s, then?  I see a couple of places online that stock them; and they are inexpensive, running under $10.00 for a pair.  I'll give them a try-thanks.


----------



## Skylab

In the WA6 (non-SE), the 6FD7 sound terrific.  They are not that different, and in fact the 6DE7 is listed as a "preferred subsititute" for the 6FD7:
   
  http://70.167.193.117/Common/Tube/Excel/Tube4.php?tube=6fd7
   
  It's just that some WA6SE's have a problem with the 6FD7.
   
  The 6EW7 most of us have found to be quite light in the bass.


----------



## dannie01

Congrats John, I'm sure you'll very happy with these premium "old light bulb" in your WA22 and the price is pretty good though.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally pull the trigger on a pair of this...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Tung-Sol-Round-Plate-CTL-6SN7-GT-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/400153817117?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d2b06b01d
> 
> Hope it is as good as every said they are...


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





skylab said:


> In the WA6 (non-SE), the 6FD7 sound terrific.  They are not that different, and in fact the 6DE7 is listed as a "preferred subsititute" for the 6FD7:
> http://70.167.193.117/Common/Tube/Excel/Tube4.php?tube=6fd7
> It's just that some WA6SE's have a problem with the 6FD7.
> The 6EW7 most of us have found to be quite light in the bass.


 

 Thanks for all the replies and good suggestions; I'm still wondering what the best choice (for a bit more bass impact) would be in my WA6SE (stock) with EML 5U4G.  RCA 6EW7 as recommended above, 6DE7, or something else perhaps?  (My Sylvania 6EW7s really sound quite good to me--I'm just looking for small improvements here.)


----------



## dmac03

jc9394, I've been eyeing those on ebay as well. But is that price for single tube or a pair? That (1) in front of the description is throwing me off.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> jc9394, I've been eyeing those on ebay as well. But is that price for single tube or a pair? That (1) in front of the description is throwing me off.


 


  That is for single, you need to get two.  Here are the spec he sent me on the tubes I brought. * "Tested on a Westmore 501 1700 minimum tube 1) 2650 & 2650. Tube 2) 2650 & 2700"*
   
  I asked him if he is interested in group buy, stay tune.  I may get another pair if the price is good.


----------



## SpudHarris

I too became the proud owner of these a few days back.....
   

   
  I have given them a few hours and they are definately world class. Worth the premium price?? not so sure at this stage, I'm going to leave them in until I know them intimately before passing judgement. I was very lucky to have paid a little over $100 for the pair from an estate sale.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is for single, you need to get two.  Here are the spec he sent me on the tubes I brought. * "Tested on a Westmore 501 1700 minimum tube 1) 2650 & 2650. Tube 2) 2650 & 2700"*
> 
> I asked him if he is interested in group buy, stay tune.  I may get another pair if the price is good.


 
   
  Did you ask for a matched set or does it matter with these?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Did you ask for a matched set or does it matter with these?


 

 He will try to match it as best he can when you order two or more.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I asked him if he is interested in group buy, stay tune.  I may get another pair if the price is good.


 

 He get back to me on group buy.  Due to his medical bill, he can not afford to lower it anymore than already low price compare to others that is listed.  He have 10 more if anyone is interested.


----------



## dmac03

I need to get a new source asap. If I keep buying new tubes at the same rate as I have over the past week (since I've gotten my amp), then I'll never be able to afford a new source. I can see how this whole tube adventure can become addicting.
   
  Maybe I should take a vacation from this thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


dmac03 said:


> Maybe I should take a vacation from this thread.


 
  And why? In your absence you might miss some valuable and exciting information which is passed between like members that may help you discover Audio Nirvana.


----------



## jc9394

dmac03, you can run but you can't hide...the tube evil will always find you.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I, too, thought I was safe from tubes.  But it's so nice here.
   
  Step into the light... join us...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I, too, thought I was safe from tubes.  But it's so nice here.
> 
> Step into the light... join us...


 

 Come towards the light. Bask in its radiant glow. You feel safe. You feel safe. Until of course you plop down another C-Note to procure another NOS tube!


----------



## dmac03

Haha, you guys are right. I tried to stay away and lasted half of a day. Cheers to tubes.
   
  jc9394, what do you think of the tsrp's?
   
  I know this is very subjective, but in your eyes, are they worth it over other 6sn7 types?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He get back to me on group buy.  Due to his medical bill, he can not afford to lower it anymore than already low price compare to others that is listed.  He have 10 more if anyone is interested.


 
  I didn't think he would lower his price, its already a good price.
   
  Remember two things with your new tubes.
  1. The imprint on the glass is easy to rub off.
  2. It is a good idea to always handle any tube with a base from it's base only.


----------



## flaming_june

go into the light, until it burns your fingers.


----------



## vinyllp33

Alright guys, step up to the plate. I just ordered a pair of TSRP from Walt on eBay and installed them in my WA5. 
   
  These are the real deal, date matched, same production NOS in original boxes, and the sound! I was using a pair of date matched, NOS Tung-Sol 6SN7 circa 1958 that were and are excellent tubes; The TSRP takes things to an ENTIRELY different level.
   
  In comparison there was an edginess to the sound with my other tubes that is totally gone now and this is accomplished without any rounding or smoothing out of transient detail, in fact they are even more percussive in that regard. 
   
  There is a reason that these tubes are so scarce and command such high prices.
   
  These should last a_ very_ long time in the WA22 and WA5 circuits, even so I just ordered a back-up set and I certainly was NOT planning on doing that. 
   
  The way I see it, the new production stuff is plentiful and available and in addition there are many dubious sellers peddling "NOS" that is far from it, don't let this opportunity pass you by.
   
  Once you add up everything you will spend with all the tube experimentation and rolling at the end of the day this is where you are ultimately going to end up. 
   
  Carpe Diem!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> No I haven't checked, but considering it was built in January/February of 2010, I assumed that it would be compatible.  I'll have to email him to find out.


 


  Actually that would make you incompatible unless your amp was modified specifically for the 6FD7.  Jack didn't modify the amp for the 6FD7 as standard until early summer.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Argh.  You people.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I tried.  I tried so hard to resist.  But all this talk of TSRs.... and from the seller I've had saved in my eBay watch list for months.  Knowing he is about to run out I just don't think I can resist any longer.
   
  I guess the way I see it is the price on these is never going to go lower, so since I will end up with some at some point I'm sure I might as well go for a pair I know will be good.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He get back to me on group buy.  Due to his medical bill, he can not afford to lower it anymore than already low price compare to others that is listed.  He have 10 more if anyone is interested.


 

  



   



   
  Thanks for the heads-up jc9394, I outta get a pair in reserves.


----------



## sillysally

I hate to say I told you all about the TSBGRP, but what the heck I told you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If you want to play in the big leagues you have to pay, or if you want to have a closet full of just light bulbs you still end up paying, its your choice.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Beware I have seen some of these TSRP with cracked base's, but not from this seller.
  It has been said that a cracked base is still ok and maybe that's true, but I don't want any with a cracked base. So if the TSRP seems cheap ask the seller about the base.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Haha, you guys are right. I tried to stay away and lasted half of a day. Cheers to tubes.
> 
> jc9394, what do you think of the tsrp's?
> 
> I know this is very subjective, but in your eyes, are they worth it over other 6sn7 types?


 

 I have not received my pair yet, it will be here on Saturday but I'm still in Chicago until next Friday, will let you know next weekend.

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I didn't think he would lower his price, its already a good price.
> 
> Remember two things with your new tubes.
> 1. The imprint on the glass is easy to rub off.
> 2. It is a good idea to always handle any tube with a base from it's base only.


 


 Great, I will remember this.  I totally rubbed off all the marking on my metal base GZ34 before.
  
  Quote: 





balderon said:


> Thanks for the heads-up jc9394, I outta get a pair in reserves.


 

 I may do so too...

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I hate to say I told you all about the TSBGRP, but what the heck I told you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I know, I know, we will learn from our newb mistake...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Alright guys, step up to the plate. I just ordered a pair of TSRP from Walt on eBay and installed them in my WA5.


 

 Well, I guess the Woo owner are buying them up now.  I check his listing again and now it showed 18 sold while yesterday when I brought mines is only 8 sold.  Need to find fund for a backup pair...


----------



## SpudHarris

I've just ordered a back up pair from him also. Can't stand the thought of being without a set if anything happens to the ones I've got. I don't know the history of these I have already so not sure how long they'll last. They sound sublime but are nothing to look at, no lettering on the glass etc, definately not NOS.
   
  I had an extended listen to them in my WA6 last night and I have to say everything people say is true. Everything seems so 3D, so perfect in every way. If any of you guys are sitting on the fence wondering if you should buy a set, just do it because these will only go up in price as they become more and more rare to find. Walt has the licence to print money the way I see it......


----------



## Skylab

Same here - I bought a back-up set of the TS BGRP's - can't stomach the idea of being without them.  As said, they cost what they cost for a reason - they sound AMAZING.


----------



## dannie01

I discovered so many devils about TS RPBG here suddenly.


----------



## jc9394

Yes, the devil is here... but good and bad news... for those who hold out on it, they are gone.  he sold them all out already...
   
  Oh, for the good news.  He is holding the last pair for me


----------



## dannie01

You lucky devils, I missed this......................#^&(^%$*((&^^^%&)@!
   
  Edit. I'm wrong, should be "devils". Congrats you all, it worth what you paid, enjoy.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You lucky devil, I missed this......................#^&(^%$*((&^^^%&)@!


 

 Hehehe...


----------



## Cyberevo

I probably knew who bought all his left TS BGRP at once...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> I probably knew who bought all his left TS BGRP at once...


 


  YOU...hope you share...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> YOU...hope you share...


 
  No sooner had I gone to buy a pair for myself than they're all gone!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All of them. There were 10 of them last night!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No sooner had I gone to buy a pair for myself than they're all gone!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I know, it is crazy.  He have *over 10* last night and it is all sold now.  Luckily I got hold of him and able to get one more pair.


----------



## mikemalter

Do you guys have a link?
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I've just ordered a back up pair from him also. Can't stand the thought of being without a set if anything happens to the ones I've got. I don't know the history of these I have already so not sure how long they'll last. They sound sublime but are nothing to look at, no lettering on the glass etc, definately not NOS.
> 
> I had an extended listen to them in my WA6 last night and I have to say everything people say is true. Everything seems so 3D, so perfect in every way. If any of you guys are sitting on the fence wondering if you should buy a set, just do it because these will only go up in price as they become more and more rare to find. Walt has the licence to print money the way I see it......


----------



## Cyberevo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> YOU...hope you share...


 

 Not me, I just need "one" more pair for spare...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Do you guys have a link?


 

 http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Tung-Sol-Round-Plate-CTL-6SN7-GT-Vacuum-Tubes-NOS-/400153817117?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d2b06b01d
   
  All gone...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> Not me, I just need "one" more pair for spare...


 

 Don't we all. 
   
  Not sure what to say anymore, we are just brunch of crazy Woo owners that will to pay that much on "Old Light Bulb".


----------



## Cyberevo

No need to worry too much.
   
  According to the tube dealer I met earlier, he knew someone in Europe has at least 50 "pairs" of TS BGRP, and he believes this guy has more.
  The dealer bought 10 pairs at once from this source in the beginning of this year, which cost USD300 per pair...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The next time he tried to order, that guy increased to USD400.
   
  Cited from him, these dealers/owners won't release too many vintage on the auction sites.
  They will show few pairs from time to time, in order to maintain the price.
  That's it.


----------



## jc9394

But at $350 a pair from a reputable seller that offer return/exchange on DOA is hard...


----------



## Cyberevo

[size=medium]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> But at $350 a pair from a reputable seller that offer return/exchange on DOA is hard...







Sure, I believe USD350 is a very reasonable price.
I hope I can get one more pair at this price, too.
Tax and shipping cost(and time to deliver) are always the troubles for me.
   
( the source whom the tube dealer contacted can sell TS BGRP in 50 tubes/box )
   
I think we are all out of control...... suddenly everyone here is crazy to these little " Old Lighting Bulbs"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



​[/size]


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> I think we are all out of control...... suddenly everyone here is crazy to these little " Old Lighting Bulbs"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What TSRP "Old Light bulbs"? I haven't seen one yet! I almost had my hands on a beautiful pair last night but some clever person whisked them off quick and in a hurry. Certainly this person's wallet must be hurting now--but maybe not later.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What TSRP "Old Light bulbs"? I haven't seen one yet! I almost had my hands on a beautiful pair last night but some clever person whisked them off quick and in a hurry. Certainly this person's wallet must be hurting now--but maybe not later.


 

 You mean these, I'm not that bad have a pair playing with my WA5LE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but no luck to have a spare pair, too slow to react....................


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You mean these, I'm not that bad have a pair playing with my WA5LE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes those! So close and yet so far away. At least you have a pair. I can only dream about having a pair. Zzzzzzzz.
   
  I also can't imagine having a box of 50!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I also can't imagine having a box of 50!


 


 Haha, that is really dreaming.................................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Haha, that is really dreaming.................................


 

 Or maybe get them cheap enough to share with the rest of us?


----------



## TheAudioDude

For what it's worth, I'm really digging the GEC 6080 and Ken-Rad 6F8G combination.  It's a nearly perfect match for my D7000s; everything I throw at it sounds excellent.  I was using my Tung-Sol 7236s w/ the Ken-Rads, but the sound just wasn't right.  I'll have to roll in some 6AS7Gs this weekend.
   
  BTW, I don't think I'd ever be able to justify paying $350 for a pair of tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now, I know this is Head-Fi, but that's just ridiculous!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> For what it's worth, I'm really digging the GEC 6080 and Ken-Rad 6F8G combination.  It's a nearly perfect match for my D7000s; everything I throw at it sounds excellent.  I was using my Tung-Sol 7236s w/ the Ken-Rads, but the sound just wasn't right.  I'll have to roll in some 6AS7Gs this weekend.
> 
> BTW, I don't think I'd ever be able to justify paying $350 for a pair of tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Agree on GEC 6080, so far it is my flavor power tube.  Combine with Treasure and EML 5U4G, it is so nice...can't wait to try the 6SN7 BGRP  I'm trying to myself on a pair of GEC 6AS7G...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> For what it's worth, I'm really digging the GEC 6080 and Ken-Rad 6F8G combination.  It's a nearly perfect match for my D7000s; everything I throw at it sounds excellent.  I was using my Tung-Sol 7236s w/ the Ken-Rads, but the sound just wasn't right.  I'll have to roll in some 6AS7Gs this weekend.
> 
> BTW, I don't think I'd ever be able to justify paying $350 for a pair of tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  Well the only Tung-Sols I currently have in my amp are the 6AS7Gs that I got from Double F, along with the EML 5U4G. Blissy bliss bliss!


----------



## StevieDvd

Anyone know if a MULLARD CV378 will be OK in a Woo 6 standard headphone amp, seems to be a few around at reasonable prices so wondered if they would work and are worth a try.
   
  Thanks
   
  Steve


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





steviedvd said:


> Anyone know if a MULLARD CV378 will be OK in a Woo 6 standard headphone amp, seems to be a few around at reasonable prices so wondered if they would work and are worth a try.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Steve


 

 Not a tube expert but I believe CV378 is an equivalent of GZ37... and I know GZ37 works fine in my Woo.  I think they will be perfectly fine, but perhaps wait for someone with expertise here to chim in or contact Jack himself.


----------



## jc9394

I think Danny tried GZ37 on his WA6SE before...


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Not a tube expert but I believe CV378 is an equivalent of GZ37... and I know GZ37 works fine in my Woo.  I think they will be perfectly fine, but perhaps wait for someone with expertise here to chim in or contact Jack himself.


 

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think Danny tried GZ37 on his WA6SE before...


 
   
   
  Have dropped Jack an email just in case as my Woo is an older model.
   
  Thanks
   
  Steve


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think Danny tried GZ37 on his WA6SE before...


 
   
   
  I have only tried a GZ30 (CV2748) not a GZ37 on the WA6SE, sorry about that.


----------



## StevieDvd

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I have only tried a GZ30 (CV2748) not a GZ37 on the WA6SE, sorry about that.


 


   No problem. Jack has just confirmed it is safe for me.


----------



## Skylab

I have some nice Mullard GZ37's, I should try one in my WA6.


----------



## Sesam

I'm interested in either getting the WA6, WA6 SE or the WA2. The headphone I'm buying it for is the Beyerdynamic T1, and I also need pre-amp for studio monitors (heard this can be added as custom option to the WA6 too). 
   
  I'm leaning towards the WA2 as supposedly it is a good match with the T1 headphones. Anyway I'm wondering what significance the different types of tubes have on audio quality with this amp. According to the specs:
  . 


 Two _6AS7 / 6080_ [PDF] power tubes
 Two _6922 / 6DJ8_ [PDF] drive tubes
 Two _EZ80_ [PDF] rectification tubes (6X4 is no longer used)

   
  I have a bunch of drive tubes, but how about the rectification and power tubes?. Are those equally or even more important for sound quality?. I looked at what is available from retailers, and I'm worried... because there appears to be few if any new production power and rectification tubes around, this isn't promising for the future thickness of my wallet


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I'm interested in either getting the WA6, WA6 SE or the WA2. The headphone I'm buying it for is the Beyerdynamic T1, and I also need pre-amp for studio monitors (heard this can be added as custom option to the WA6 too).
> 
> I'm leaning towards the WA2 as supposedly it is a good match with the T1 headphones. Anyway I'm wondering what significance the different types of tubes have on audio quality with this amp. According to the specs:
> 
> ...


 

 Jack has said that you can also use the EZ81 / 6CA7 tubes.
  I get my 6AS7G tubes as well as the EZ80 / EZ81.
   
  They are still very much available on the internet.


----------



## Sesam

^ Would I be correct in assuming that the rectification tubes don't make much if any difference on the sound, as long as they just work? I have looked around, and sure there are many places that sell the EZ80 and alternatives, but most of them sell "various NOS" stock, so you never know what you get.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I hate to say I told you all about the TSBGRP, but what the heck I told you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My Tung Sol box plate tubes both have cracked bases.  Bad cracks that run the full height of the base, and they work and sound great.  Somebody even tried to close one with glue I noticed.  I would think unless the base itself is loose or something is up with the pins or glass a cracked bass is no real issue.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Goodness, all this talk of spares.  I'm happy to have a first set personally, though I will have to rob the savings to pay for them. It just seemed like the right time to pull the trigger and I guess I was right.  I could never afford a backup pair so if something happens I'll have to live with lesser tubes.  Looking forward to hearing the legend for myself now.


----------



## Icenine2

I listened to a WA6 with T-1's at Skylab's and it sounded wonderful!  I was going to order a WA6 and it would be great.  The audiophile anal guy living in my brain is the one who first thought of the WA6E.  Then maybe the 22 or now maybe even the WA5LE.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My Tung Sol box plate tubes both have cracked bases.  Bad cracks that run the full height of the base, and they work and sound great.  Somebody even tried to close one with glue I noticed.  I would think unless the base itself is loose or something is up with the pins or glass a cracked bass is no real issue.


 
  "Somebody even tried to close one with glue I noticed." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You didn't send those tubes back,
   
  Anyway like I said the cracked base tubes are not for me, and I bet if you get a cracked base tube for $175.00 you will send it back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And that is why I now only buy the perfect tube's in NOSIB and they better be a matched pair with the same build date.
  But I also understand that these type of tubes will cost me more. In the end I don't have adapters that may or may not work, a closet full of "light bulbs" that in all good conscientious I can't sell and running the risk of damaging my amp or any back ground noise.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I listened to a WA6 with T-1's at Skylab's and it sounded wonderful!  I was going to order a WA6 and it would be great.  The audiophile anal guy living in my brain is the one who first thought of the WA6E.  Then maybe the 22 or now maybe even the WA5LE.


 


  If you want PM me and let me know a little about yourself, I live very close to you and also have the WA6SE max and the WA5LE max++ Including a matched nos pair of WE 300B's (date code 1956/26th week), TSRP nos matched pair August 1942 along with a pair of EML 5U4G (new redesigned).
  My WA6SE max is running a nos EML 274B solid plate and a pair of nos circa 1963 RCA chrome tops, however I have the WA6SE back in its box as a back-up.
   
  I am using the HD-800s with my WA5LE.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





cyberevo said:


> I probably knew who bought all his left TS BGRP at once...


 

  
  I couldn't resist mate, he shipped today already.


----------



## vinyllp33

Wow! I am kind of glad to be relieved of further temptation.

 I think it is only fitting that sillysally made this great score as it was he who first hipped most of us on this forum to the greatness of this tube when used with the Woo.

 Thanks again sillysally!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Wow! I am kind of glad to be relieved of further temptation.
> 
> I think it is only fitting that sillysally made this great score as it was he who first hipped most of us on this forum to the greatness of this tube when used with the Woo.
> 
> Thanks again sillysally!


 
  Thanks for the kind words.
   
  Actually I only got one from this seller late last night because he had a exact match to the pair I am using now and the pair I have in reserve, and I really would of had a hard time putting my back-up pair into service if I had only one tube go bad.
  I am really not that much of a pig, but I must say the idea of buying a lot of 6 did cross my mind.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I listened to a WA6 with T-1's at Skylab's and it sounded wonderful!  I was going to order a WA6 and it would be great.  The audiophile anal guy living in my brain is the one who first thought of the WA6E.  Then maybe the 22 or now maybe even the WA5LE.


 

 Stop denying yourself.  Just go WA5 and you'll have no need to upgrade in the future.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Stop denying yourself.  Just go WA5 and you'll have no need to upgrade in the future.


 
   
 [size=medium]Unless you want to drive balanced headphones, or electrostatic... there's always a reason to upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


​[/size]


----------



## markmaxx

sillysally said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> Actually I only got one from this seller late last night because he had a exact match to the pair I am using now and the pair I have in reserve, and I really would of had a hard time putting my back-up pair into service if I had only one tube go bad.
> I am really not that much of a pig, but I must say the idea of buying a lot of 6 did cross my mind.









Did you pay this kind of money for your WE 300b?

 Check out this item I found on eBay:





 PAIR OF ORIGINAL MATCHED WESTERN ELECTRIC 300B (1950'S)





 Link:http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-OF-ORIGINAL-MATCHED-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-300B-1950S_W0QQitemZ320593921978QQcategoryZ73381QQvarZQQcmdZViewItem





 (Sent from eBay Mobile for Android)


----------



## jc9394

sillysally said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> Actually I only got one from this seller late last night because he had a exact match to the pair I am using now and the pair I have in reserve, and I really would of had a hard time putting my back-up pair into service if I had only one tube go bad.
> I am really not that much of a pig, but I must say the idea of buying a lot of 6 did cross my mind.







 I did able to get a hold of seller before he sold them out, He is able to find a matching pair that match the one he is shipping me.


----------



## Skylab

That's why I will never get a 300B amp - I cannot be trusted to stay away from NOS 300B's...and I must not have the temptation...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Did you pay this kind of money for your WE 300b?
> 
> Check out this item I found on eBay:
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I did but those WE300B's from your link are not NOS and are not a matched pair, one of the WE300B's was made in 1959 the other is a reissue WE300B made in 2004.
  So no the WE300B's from your link are not even close to the matched pair of NOSIB I have. My date codes on both my nosib we300B's are 56/26, that means they where both made in the 26th week of 1956, also my WE300B's tested new, very very strong and very close to each other. The founder of the Alabama nfp club I got them from worked at the original WE factory in Alabama were they made these tubes most of his life.
  The reason why I am going into some detail with my post is to try to explain what to look for and yes when you get into this kind of price range buyer be ware!!!
   
  btw; its my understanding that the reissue 300B only (not the original 300B) has a different kind of glue  holding the base on and its been reported that if removed from a amp the glass and the base (reissue) can and have pulled apart.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's why I will never get a 300B amp - I cannot be trusted to stay away from NOS 300B's...and I must not have the temptation...


 
  Ya you say that now but maybe I should have you over for a test drive of my WA5LE with my WE300B's and of-course my TSRP's (imo a very good bang for the buck, the TSRP that is not the WE300B's unless you want to give up your first born).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> If you want PM me and let me know a little about yourself, I live very close to you and also have the WA6SE max and the WA5LE max++ Including a matched nos pair of WE 300B's (date code 1956/26th week), TSRP nos matched pair August 1942 along with a pair of EML 5U4G (new redesigned).
> My WA6SE max is running a nos EML 274B solid plate and a pair of nos circa 1963 RCA chrome tops, however I have the WA6SE back in its box as a back-up.
> 
> I am using the HD-800s with my WA5LE.


 

 Wow, nice offer.  I wish there is someone in MA have your amp so I can take a listen.  I'm in Wheeling, IL now, can I come over? J/K, Busy working until Thursday...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ya you say that now but maybe I should have you over for a test drive of my WA5LE with my WE300B's and of-course my TSRP's (imo a very good bang for the buck, the TSRP that is not the WE300B's unless you want to give up your first born).


 


 No money and chance to try the genuine NOS WE300B but something new, the best I can pay is a pair of EAT. I'm jealous on your WE, ss.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I did but those WE300B's from your link are not NOS and are not a matched pair, one of the WE300B's was made in 1959 the other is a reissue WE300B made in 2004.
> So no the WE300B's from your link are not even close to the matched pair of NOSIB I have. My date codes on both my nosib we300B's are 56/26, that means they where both made in the 26th week of 1956, also my WE300B's tested new, very very strong and very close to each other. The founder of the Alabama nfp club I got them from worked at the original WE factory in Alabama were they made these tubes most of his life.
> The reason why I am going into some detail with my post is to try to explain what to look for and yes when you get into this kind of price range buyer be ware!!!
> 
> btw; its my understanding that the reissue 300B only (not the original 300B) has a different kind of glue  holding the base on and its been reported that if removed from a amp the glass and the base (reissue) can a


 
   
  Quote: From e bay ad. 





> "Here is a nice pair of original Western Electric 300b from the 1950's with date codes of 426 and 5939."


 
   
  I get the 1959/39 week,  did you get the 2004 reissue from 426? ie. 2004/26 week? And why the heck did someone pay $3150.00 for a matched pair of 1950 tubes if one is from 2004.


----------



## flaming_june

I think it's funny while looking at the vents on your equipment I think to myself: is that a b22?  Then facepalm it's in your sig.
   
   
  There coudlnt' be that huge of a difference between EAT and WE NOS right.  Whenever I check those things out on ebay I wonder why people spend that much. 
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No money and chance to try the genuine NOS WE300B but something new, the best I can pay is a pair of EAT. I'm jealous on your WE, ss.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





			
				sillysally said:
			
		

> You didn't send those tubes back,


 

 They were $50 and they sound wonderful.  As long as they work properly I didn't mind.  Looking at it the intention was to stop the crack from spreading all the way down the base, but it clearly didn't work.  Now, if I got some TSRPs that were cracked I would probably mind, simply because they are so expensive, but even then the sound is what counts provided longevity isn't affected right?
   
  I can understand your position on adapters and the like, but I wouldn't be so quick to discourage others.  My experience has been wonderful, and the others who've tried it here have also had positive experiences.  The improvement from going to the 6SN7 tube completely cured upgraditis for me for the time being.  The 6DE7 tubes have a shallow and lifeless sound that is uninvolving now, I could never go back to them.  You do have a very valid point in that if trouble arises with the adapters I am in big trouble, but I'm trying to start parking the same tubes in the amp for longer periods now to reduce the risk of future issues.  Definitely a good idea to have a backup pair of adapters too, which I have.... though I think I may ask Glenn if he can make a pair with the same type of socket pins used in the Woo amps because they appear to have superior contact.


----------



## matthewh133

Hey guys, I went through a lot of pages but I didn't have enough time today to go through all 356 haha. I have sought advice from the Ear+ thread, so I only see it fair to get some advice from owners of it's contender for my new amp. I read a couple of people in the first 30 pages say the HD650 went well with this, which is one of my cans. The others I will be purchasing soon are the RS1 and the DT880 (600). Can anyone give me a bit of a quick review with either of these phones with the WA6 w/ PDPS and Sophia? Thanks!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No money and chance to try the genuine NOS WE300B but something new, the best I can pay is a pair of EAT. I'm jealous on your WE, ss.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Got this in the mail today and asked my wife to take a few pictures and she think I'm crazy...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow, nice offer.  I wish there is someone in MA have your amp so I can take a listen.  I'm in Wheeling, IL now, can I come over? J/K, Busy working until Thursday...


 


  Sure.
   
  I hope your pictures of your new TSRP don't do the actual tube any justice. I will probably get my one TSRP Monday so I will compare and report back. 
   
  As soon as I can get my wife to take pictures of my amp with the TSRP's and WE300B's I will post.
   
  Just so you don't take my post the wrong way, your New TSRP's are the real thing, box's also. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> I get the 1959/39 week,  did you get the 2004 reissue from 426? ie. 2004/26 week? And why the heck did someone pay $3150.00 for a matched pair of 1950 tubes if one is from 2004.


 

 Yes 4/26 = 2004/26th weeks.
  Don't know why you would want them at that price, but as I said "Buyer Beware"
  That said they still probably sound very nice.


----------



## grokit

Regarding the Ken-Rad VT231: why is this one:
   
   

  "6SN7 GT MATCHED PAIR KEN-RAD VT231 BLACK GLASS TUBES"
   
   
   
  So much better than this one (or is it?):
   

   "Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT VT 231 Clear Glass matched pair"

   
  They are both from the 1940's. Is it just the black glass or are there other differences (or similarities)?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> They were $50 and they sound wonderful.  As long as they work properly I didn't mind.  Looking at it the intention was to stop the crack from spreading all the way down the base, but it clearly didn't work.  Now, if I got some TSRPs that were cracked I would probably mind, simply because they are so expensive, but even then the sound is what counts provided longevity isn't affected right?
> 
> I can understand your position on adapters and the like, but I wouldn't be so quick to discourage others.  My experience has been wonderful, and the others who've tried it here have also had positive experiences.  The improvement from going to the 6SN7 tube completely cured upgraditis for me for the time being.  The 6DE7 tubes have a shallow and lifeless sound that is uninvolving now, I could never go back to them.  You do have a very valid point in that if trouble arises with the adapters I am in big trouble, but I'm trying to start parking the same tubes in the amp for longer periods now to reduce the risk of future issues.  Definitely a good idea to have a backup pair of adapters too, which I have.... though I think I may ask Glenn if he can make a pair with the same type of socket pins used in the Woo amps because they appear to have superior contact.


 

 Hey for $50 bucks and you enjoy them, that's all that counts.
   
  I am not saying not to do what you want with Glenn's adapters, all I am saying is be careful. I have seen some Woo amps that where sold because the owner's became fearful that he/she has damaged there amp because of bad tubes, adapter or bad modifications.


----------



## flaming_june

Those tubes look really nice.  I should contact glen and get a quote on them converters.
   
   
 [size=medium]

  Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Hey guys, I went through a lot of pages but I didn't have enough time today to go through all 356 haha. I have sought advice from the Ear+ thread, so I only see it fair to get some advice from owners of it's contender for my new amp. I read a couple of people in the first 30 pages say the HD650 went well with this, which is one of my cans. The others I will be purchasing soon are the RS1 and the DT880 (600). Can anyone give me a bit of a quick review with either of these phones with the WA6 w/ PDPS and Sophia? Thanks!






  
   
  What is your source?  It is ALL dependent on what sounds good to your ears.  Sound self explanatory.  I have the RS1.  I've read your previous post regarding taste of music.  RS1 isn't necessarily a good phone for them with sophia/WA6.  The EML 274b i'm using with the WA6 and RS1 is really good.  Sophia is also good for some songs.  Short answer is still, dependent on your source, RS1 can either sound great or somewhat poor on entry level sources.   DT880 is more power hungry and was a little harder to drive with the WA6.  Now I'm actually on the hunt for an HD650 to try it out.  Overall I use my RS1s 96% of the time.
   ​[/size]


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Regarding the Ken-Rad VT231: why is this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Check this link out.

  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread


----------



## matthewh133

/img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> What is your source?  It is ALL dependent on what sounds good to your ears.  Sound self explanatory.  I have the RS1.  I've read your previous post regarding taste of music.  RS1 isn't necessarily a good phone for them with sophia/WA6.  The EML 274b i'm using with the WA6 and RS1 is really good.  Sophia is also good for some songs.  Short answer is still, dependent on your source, RS1 can either sound great or somewhat poor on entry level sources.   DT880 is more power hungry and was a little harder to drive with the WA6.  Now I'm actually on the hunt for an HD650 to try it out.  Overall I use my RS1s 96% of the time.
> ​


 


 Thanks for the input mate. My source is the Audio-GD FUN with Earth Opa. Seems like your comments are backing up that the Ear+ may be the better choice?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Check this link out.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread


 

 Thanks for that link, there is a wealth of information there in adhoc's OP. From it, I would say that the clear pair is probably from the early '40's, unless you think those are "ribbed" plates. They do look staggered.


----------



## Skylab

Everything I have ever read says the black-glass and clear-glass Ken-Rad VT-231's sound identical.  I only have the black-glass, so I can't say for sure.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> I think it's funny while looking at the vents on your equipment I think to myself: is that a b22?  Then facepalm it's in your sig.
> 
> 
> There coudlnt' be that huge of a difference between EAT and WE NOS right.  Whenever I check those things out on ebay I wonder why people spend that much.


 

  
  Wow, you have good eyesight flaming_june, correct, it's a 4 boards balanced β22 with dual σ22 PSU by naamanf.
   
  I have no idea about the difference between EAT and WE NOS since I don't have any chance and $ to try out, also they are rarely found in the market for a good matched paired, too. (Except sillysally is luck enough to grab a pair for his WA5LE, what a man) But from what I read of reviews, the EAT are highly praised and claimed it is a very very good current produced 300B tubes in the market, also the KR. But I can't find a local dealer for KR so I go for the EAT. 
   
   

  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> How good are those EAT? I have the EML 300B Mesh in my WA5-LE/. I would appreciate if you can post some description of the EAT sound characteristics and a short comparison to the EML.


 

 Sorry, I don't have EML 300B Mesh to compare. But compare with Sophia, the EML is better in all aspects for my ears. Deeper and dynamic bass is most noticeable, very good match with TS RPBG and EML 5U4U Mesh Plate.


----------



## SpudHarris

Are these 6F8G's the same sonically as the TS versions? I assume they are.
   
  I just thought I'd share as I know a few guys missed out on the TS BGRP's of late. My Tung-Sol 6F8G's are so good and definate steal for the money.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Everything I have ever read says the black-glass and clear-glass Ken-Rad VT-231's sound identical.  I only have the black-glass, so I can't say for sure.


 

 Well according to someone named Robert H quoted in that thread, "In the late 40's, when GE had taken more control over the KenRad operation, there was a second version with clear glass and in-line ribbed plates - it is NOTEABLY inferior sonically"


----------



## Skylab

spudharris said:


> Are these 6F8G's the same sonically as the TS versions? I assume they are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 Those are different tubes. I had some of those. Good, but not the same as the TS BGRP.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well I decided to relocate my WA22 and place it next to my couch with the Emotiva ERC-1 CD player. That way when I wake up at 4:30 am, which I have been lately, I can listen to music in the wee hours of the morning without disturbing anyone. We'll see how long this setup lasts.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The EML 5U4G is from Jack; the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT are from sillysally; and the Tung-Sol 6AS7G are from Double F. The headphone stand was built by atbglenn.
   
  Head-Fi definitely has its benefits. Thanks guys for giving me an opportunity to buy your tubes--they sound great! I haven't seen atbglenn in a while. I wonder where he is. He is obviously away from HF so that he can decompress sensibly.


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, nice setup. How do you like the Treasures and the 6AS7? I like my Treasure pair with GEC 6080 and EML 5U4G a lot. Wonder if the TS 6SN7 BGRP is much better or not...


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks. Well I'll give the treasures a little more time before I roll the Ratheon 6F8G / VT-99 coupled with glenn's adapters. Although the Treasures are very detailed I think right now the highs still sound a little bit dry with my DT990/600ohm (they're wonderful with the HD650 though) but I prefer the deep bass with the 990.


----------



## jc9394

I feel the same with the Treasures, it is slightly bright compare with Brimar CV1988. Especially when using HD800, it sound great with HF-2. Not sure if burn in helps, my Treasure have around 10 hours...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well according to someone named Robert H quoted in that thread, "In the late 40's, when GE had taken more control over the KenRad operation, there was a second version with clear glass and in-line ribbed plates - it is NOTEABLY inferior sonically"


 


  What he means is that the plates themselves are aligned with each other in terms of their placement within the tube.  These are the GE manufactured Ken-Rads and supposedly won't have the Ken Rad sound.  On the real Ken Rad tubes the plates are shifted so they are not evenly aligned with each other.  So long as the plates are staggered it shouldn't matter if it is clear or black glass.


----------



## Clayton SF

As for the Tung-Sol 6AS7G, I think they sound wonderful as are the RCA 6AS7G. I also have a pair of Mullard 6080 that I should try as well. But I'm going about this roll slow because when I keep swapping out tubes I forget to listen to the music. And today is Sunday, a great day to enjoy music. But I'm tempted now to see if those Mullards will temper those Treasures. Maybe next time.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> What he means is that the plates themselves are aligned with each other in terms of their placement within the tube.  These are the GE manufactured Ken-Rads and supposedly won't have the Ken Rad sound.  On the real Ken Rad tubes the plates are shifted so they are not evenly aligned with each other.  So long as the plates are staggered it shouldn't matter if it is clear or black glass.


 
   
  Is this an example of staggered?:


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well according to someone named Robert H quoted in that thread, "In the late 40's, when GE had taken more control over the KenRad operation, there was a second version with clear glass and in-line ribbed plates - it is NOTEABLY inferior sonically"


 

 well, you can believe some guy named Robert H, or you can come over to my house to listen to this tube.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  the parallel plate Ken Rad 6SN7GT is superb.  easily competitive with the RCA gray glass VT231.
   
  i've never heard the TSRP, and i'm probably never going to. 
  so that way i won't know what i'm missing...


----------



## Clayton SF

I couldn't wait so I replaced the Treasures CV181-Z with the Raytheon 6F8G/VT-99 (1944) and the highs are now well defined as the Treasures but not as brittle/dry. In fact, they are really clean sounding with my DT990/600ohm. The plates are box-like and the sound is fantastic to my ear. The Treasures are a keeper, though--I like them, too.
  Happy camper, I am, yes!


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> As for the Tung-Sol 6AS7G, I think they sound wonderful as are the RCA 6AS7G. I also have a pair of Mullard 6080 that I should try as well. But I'm going about this roll slow because when I keep swapping out tubes I forget to listen to the music. And today is Sunday, a great day to enjoy music. But I'm tempted now to see if those Mullards will temper those Treasures. Maybe next time.


 


 Those are some great tubes.  I actually enjoy my Tung-Sol/Chatham 6AS7G's more than my Tung-Sol 5998's.  They offer a bit more warmth and low end punch, giving the presentation of being a bit more musical than the 5998's.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> As for the Tung-Sol 6AS7G, I think they sound wonderful as are the RCA 6AS7G. I also have a pair of Mullard 6080 that I should try as well. But I'm going about this roll slow because when I keep swapping out tubes I forget to listen to the music. And today is Sunday, a great day to enjoy music. But I'm tempted now to see if those Mullards will temper those Treasures. Maybe next time.


 

  
  I felt that the RCA 6AS7Gs had great tube magic, but were a little weak and didn't really draw me into the music.  My Tung-Sol 7236s are almost the polar opposite (and complement my RCA VT-231s very well), but my GEC 6080s are smack dab in the middle.  The GECs are so smooth and involving.  If I manage to get another pair of the GEC 6080s, I'll let you borrow them for a month or so.
   
  And yes, Sunday is a great day to enjoy music!  Why, right now I'm sitting here on my couch sipping 'Sleepy Time' tea and listening to some Fleetwood Mac.  It almost makes me forget about work tomorrow.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I couldn't wait so I replaced the Treasures CV181-Z with the Raytheon 6F8G/VT-99 (1944) and the highs are now well defined as the Treasures but not as brittle/dry. In fact, they are really clean sounding with my DT990/600ohm. The plates are box-like and the sound is fantastic to my ear. The Treasures are a keeper, though--I like them, too.
> Happy camper, I am, yes!


 
   
  I do like the 6F8G but to me it is too much gain.  I can't seems to have enough play on the pot.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I felt that the RCA 6AS7Gs had great tube magic, but were a little weak and didn't really draw me into the music.  My Tung-Sol 7236s are almost the polar opposite (and complement my RCA VT-231s very well), but my GEC 6080s are smack dab in the middle.  The GECs are so smooth and involving.  If I manage to get another pair of the GEC 6080s, I'll let you borrow them for a month or so.
> 
> And yes, Sunday is a great day to enjoy music!  Why, right now I'm sitting here on my couch sipping 'Sleepy Time' tea and listening to some Fleetwood Mac.  It almost makes me forget about work tomorrow.


 

 I found another pair of GEC 6080 and a pair of GEC 6AS7G and both are NOS.  Now it is waiting time for it to fly over the Pacific.


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow. How did you do it so quickly? For me trying to flesh out GEC tubes from the rest of the bunch it is like trying to capture the Loch Ness Monster. Zip, nada, zilch, zero.


----------



## jc9394

It helps that I can read Chinese and some luck. I contacted the seller for GEC6080 that is listed but asked him on the 6AS7G by chance and to my surprise he said he just got a pair in few days ago.


----------



## jc9394

There is another pair of GEC6080 NOS listed in Ruten, Taiwan auction site and few pair of GEC 6AS7G (probably not new) but the seller never response to my email.

 http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?11080528929028

 http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?11090819471226


----------



## gknix

Hm. I swapped for a new pair of Full Music 6SN7s for my WA6se and one of the tube hums again.! I tried swapping the adaptors and it seems to be it's one tube that has problem. Should I swap them for a new pair again or should I try to let it run for another 20 hours or so (I've been running for approx 15 hours).
   
  This is frustrating ! Am I just unlucky?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Is this an example of staggered?:


 

 That they are.  You can see on the left tube how the plates are not squared up against each other, or with the mica plate.
   
  I'm sure the parallel plate version is a nice sounding tube too, but the consensus is this version (which is the older version from before GE's purchase of Ken Rad) is superior.  Your own ears have to tell the story of course. 
   
  In my opinion all of the 6SN7s from the 40's and up through the mid 50's sound pretty nice to be honest.  Some better than others but a person could live with any one of them if need be.  I think the Tung Sol T-plate sounds spectacular and you can find them for 50 bucks or less because people mistake them for Russian tubes (which they look almost exactly like if the plates are gray).  My opinion of them was mixed initially but the EML 274B completely brought them to life.  They seem to do everything well, and are extremely detailed without being edgy.  This is the "mouse ear" Tung Sol actually only without the mica spacers that give it that appearance.  They sound the same.  If you try this tube make sure you get one with copper grid posts.  I found out the hard way that this matters.
   
  My apologies if I'm preaching to the choir here, I tend to ramble.


----------



## vinyllp33

Yes, I totally agree, there were hardly any bad sounding 6SN7 tubes produced during the 1940's to mid 50's.
   
  The tall bottle Tung-Sol's with horseshoe getters are some of my favorites and exactly the same as the military WGT version and thus can be found for even less money.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That they are.  You can see on the left tube how the plates are not squared up against each other, or with the mica plate.
> 
> I'm sure the parallel plate version is a nice sounding tube too, but the consensus is this version (which is the older version from before GE's purchase of Ken Rad) is superior.  Your own ears have to tell the story of course.
> 
> ...


 

 No apologies necessary, I appreciate the information!
   
  I was pretty sure the plates in the picture were staggered, but can you tell if they have the copper grid posts?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yes, they are copper.  The picture is small but the gold color is still pretty visible.  If they are not copper they will be silver in appearance.  How much this matters varies by tube, some tubes were made only using copper grid posts.  The Tung Sols that do NOT have copper sound dry and unmusical so I've learned to watch for this.  I got a pair where one tube had copper post and the other did not and you could tell which channel had the copper post tube all the time.  It got to the point where I couldn't listen to them anymore and had to get a second pair which had proper matching construction.  I love this pair (these are the ones with the cracked bases actually).  I have this sneaking suspicion the round plates are going to sound basically the same only +1 in most ways with a bit of the midrange magic that makes the Sylvania Bad Boy sound so special to my ears.  Which would be fine because in my mind that would be the perfect all purpose tube.  Either way I'll hopefully be finding out in the next day or two.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. How did you do it so quickly? For me trying to flesh out GEC tubes from the rest of the bunch it is like trying to capture the Loch Ness Monster. Zip, nada, zilch, zero.


 


 Check this place out, it has few more pair of GEC 6080WA NOS in stock.  It is around $130/pair shipped to US.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> The tall bottle Tung-Sol's with horseshoe getters are some of my favorites and exactly the same as the military WGT version and thus can be found for even less money.


 

 Indeed - those are great sounding tubes, one of my faves as well.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Check this place out, it has few more pair of GEC 6080WA NOS in stock.  It is around $130/pair shipped to US.


 

 Thanks for the link. It looks like you can get really great NOS tubes outside of the US. Perhaps like the towns in the Netherlands and the rest of Europe, and the UK, people are coming across long forgotten crates of them stashed away in some countryside attic (war-time stuff).


----------



## Skylab

Geez, $130/pair for 6080's...yipes.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It helps that I can read Chinese and some luck. I contacted the seller for GEC6080 that is listed but asked him on the 6AS7G by chance and to my surprise he said he just got a pair in few days ago.


 

 Ah man I really want a pair of brown base GEC 6AS7Gs, but they seem to be incredibly rare!
   
  Those and the Sylvania Bad Boys are two tubes I think will bring my collection to near-completion.


----------



## jc9394

Yeah, I agree 6080 over 100 is crazy but I love it compare to my other power tubes.

 TheAudioDude, check out the link I posted on the GEC 6AS7G, not sure they are NOS but for around $100 a pair seems like a good deal but the seller never response to my email. Hope you have better luck.


----------



## dannie01

Pricing for some famous NOS tubes are incredible nowaday indeed. But for lesser and lesser of supply from the already drained stock and continuous demand, no doubt the price will climbing up month by month.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Pricing for some famous NOS tubes are incredible nowaday indeed. But for lesser and lesser of supply from the already drained stock and continuous demand, no doubt the price will climbing up month by month.


 

 Then if anything one must procure said coveted NOS tubes immediately if not for ones own self-indulgence but perhaps for future investment (to finance your child(ren)'s college education for those of you who may have little ones). Those tubes will command premium dollars in return I'd say. Or at least one would hope. Just think what some of those tubes cost 5 years ago.


----------



## sillysally

Received my one NOS TSRP CTL 6SN7GT, there is good and bad news.
   
  The Good, this tube is a December 1942 build TSRP.
  The Bad , the tube has a loose base.
   
  Please take this with a grain of salt it may mean nothing. There is no inspection stamps/sticks on the box. The four TSRP's that I already have all have tight base's and have the inspection stamps and stickers on the box's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Received my one NOS TSRP CTL 6SN7GT, there is good and bad news.
> 
> The Good, this tube is a December 1942 build TSRP.
> The Bad , the tube has a loose base.
> ...


 
   Well the proof is in the pudding. When you have a chance give them a good hard listen and then report back. Good luck! You're halfway there!


----------



## vinyllp33

I received my second set from Walt today:

 Alas, unlike the first pair that I purchased which are perfect, I received one Nov 1942 and one Dec 1942.

 In addition it seemed one did have a loose base as sillysally reported.

 The outcome is that Walt did not give me any problem whatsoever as far as a return, so back they will go.

 Buying from a seller that stands behind their product is a huge advantage when dealing with expensive NOS tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I received my second set from Walt today:
> 
> Alas, unlike the first pair that I purchased which are perfect, I received one Nov 1942 and one Dec 1942.
> 
> ...


 

 Is Walt misrepresenting his product? Is what you received not what was described? I don't understand. Two of you seemed perplexed. Seems like a waste of back-and-forth postage cost. Oh well. Like you said. He stands behind his product so that in itself is a good thing.


----------



## jc9394

I have my wife checked the pair I got, the base is not loose at all.  She said everything looks fine compare to my other 6SN7 tubes.  I will double check on Friday when I return home.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have my wife checked the pair I got, the base is not loose at all.  She said everything looks fine compare to my other 6SN7 tubes.  I will double check on Friday when I return home.


 
   
  That's great. You have a wife that knows 6SN7 tubes.


----------



## jc9394

She knows nothing but I asked her to see if the base us loose or not and compare it to the Brimar CV1988 I got. She did twist the base and did not notice loose at all. I have a metal base GZ34 that have loose base and as her to use that as reference.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Well, these tubes are 68 years old.  I think one has to mix some reason in with their expectations, expensive or not.  I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, just saying that if you are picky you significantly narrow down the selection on what is already a rare tube.
   
  I received my pair today too.  Tight bases, more or less flawless tubes.  December 1942.  They look like they have never been disturbed once through all those years, it was actually kind of an odd feeling pulling them out of the box the first time.  I was stupid enough to accidentally fade the printing on one of them while cleaning, but white print doesn't make a tube sound better or worse afterall.  I thought they tested a bit low (2500/2500 and 2600/2600) for NOS tubes but I don't have a good reference for what this particular tube usually tests at either.
   
  I'm listening to them now, and with no break-in at all they already sound lovely.  The detail seems to improve by the minute, and I can tell they will surpass the T-plate tube in this regard when they are broken in.  Everything is accompanied by a very natural feel that is inviting and easy to acclimate to.  Sort of like how it feels in a coat store after you have tried on a bunch of jackets....... when you put your own back on it just feels comfortable and fits.  That kind of good feeling.
   
  I had to hear it for myself to believe, but they are not over-hyped.  These tubes actually are worth what they cost.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, these tubes are 68 years old. .... December 1942.  They look like they have never been disturbed once through all those years, it was actually kind of an odd feeling pulling them out of the box the first time.  I was stupid enough to accidentally fade the printing on one of them while cleaning, _*but white print doesn't make a tube sound better or worse afterall.*_


 

  Neither does a scratch on an old classic car make it drive any better or worse--but I do know what you mean!



> .... Everything is accompanied by _*a very natural feel that is inviting and easy to acclimate to.  Sort of like how it feels in a coat store after you have tried on a bunch of jackets....... when you put your own back on it just feels comfortable and fits.  *_That kind of good feeling.
> 
> I had to hear it for myself to believe, but they are not over-hyped.  *These tubes actually are worth what they cost.*


 
   
  Well said. Well put. Now isn't that what life is all about? Dusting off the past to live comfortably in the present. I _hear_ you!
   
  Enjoy life--that's what it's all about.
   
  Now I need join you in the comfort zone and order more NOS tubes!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I definitely feel like I have done all I can with the current setup now.
   
  Now comes the long and slow process of saving up for a WA22 and a better pair of headphones to plug into it.  Someday (more like some year).......  but I know I will not be suffering while I wait.  I'm curious how much difference the amp itself would make, considering I am using tubes in my WA6 that are usually only put into far more expensive amps.


----------



## dmac03

All this tsrp talk during the past week has left me thirsty for them! I am continually on the hunt for them.
   
  In the mean time, I landed a pair of sylvania wgta's for (what I believe to be) a very reasonable price. Hopefully these will hold me over until I come accross a pair of tsrp's with a price that I can't pass up.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, these tubes are 68 years old.  I think one has to mix some reason in with their expectations, expensive or not.  I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, just saying that if you are picky you significantly narrow down the selection on what is already a rare tube.
> 
> I received my pair today too.  Tight bases, more or less flawless tubes.  December 1942.  They look like they have never been disturbed once through all those years, it was actually kind of an odd feeling pulling them out of the box the first time.  I was stupid enough to accidentally fade the printing on one of them while cleaning, but white print doesn't make a tube sound better or worse afterall.
> 
> I had to hear it for myself to believe, but they are not over-hyped.  These tubes actually are worth what they cost.


 

 Well yes you can be picky if you are going to pay up for a tube, my first two sets are perfect and the same goes for my WE300B.
  I also have E-mailed (4 times) via E-Bay the seller and he has never replied. The other thing that is not a plus is that there are some marks on the pins that look like there was a spark arcing. Yes if I paid a sub premium price like you for the cracked base tube you have I would not say a word.
   
  As far as being a different month that would not bother me as long as the tubes are matched. The tube I got from Walt tested at 2500/2450, not the end of the world but as you think/said it is low. I rolled out one of my TSRP and put the new tsrp from walt and yes there was a small difference walts tsrp was not as loud.
   
  Ahh you didn't read my post about cleaning and rubbing off stamp mark.
   
  I am glad you like the TSRP 6SN7GT tubes, they really are the best and it sounds like you have a nice pair.


----------



## sillysally

Here is a picture of my first set of TSRP's and my WE300B's.
  Also the other picture is from the set that is show in my amp, I have pealed the label up on the second USN inspection, also at the end flap of the box there is a stamp mark like the one you see on the left box upper left side.
   
  Hay Clayton I read a comment by you about somebodies wife, everything you see in this picture my wife persuaded me to get. Matter of fact I think she couldn't understand why I sold some of my tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  No that's not a dent on my amp, its the reflection off of the TSRP.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Here is a picture of my first set of TSRP's and my WE300B's.
> Also the other picture is from the set that is show in my amp, I have pealed the label up on the second USN inspection, also at the end flap of the box there is a stamp mark like the one you see on the left box upper left side.
> 
> Hay Clayton I read a comment by you about somebodies wife, *everything you see in this picture my wife persuaded me to get.* Matter of fact I think she couldn't understand why I sold some of my tubes.
> ...


 


 What a lucky man you are to have a wife like that.
   
  The TSRP's mark is very clear even more than 60 yrs old and the WE300B is beautiful.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> What a lucky man you are to have a wife like that.
> 
> The TSRP's mark is very clear even more than 60 yrs old and the WE300B is beautiful.


 

 Yes I know it. Plus she is not a bitch and she is a lot younger and thinner than me. What can I say I am in love with her.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I know it. Plus she is not a bitch and she is a lot younger and thinner than me. What can I say I am in love with her.


 


 Ahhhhhhhhhhhh..................I envy very much..................................


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> .... Hay Clayton I read a comment by you about somebodies wife, *everything you see in this picture my wife persuaded me to get*. Matter of fact I think she couldn't understand why I sold some of my tubes.


 

 Very nice. It reminds me of those old Kodak film boxes--that yellow tinge.
  It is great that you have spousal support with your tube purges and purchases!
  (I wonder if there are any women on HF who have husbands that just don't get this tube rolling business.)


----------



## Skylab

I can understand returning tubes due to a loose base or signs of arcing. I can't understand returning them because they were made one month apart in the same year.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ahh you didn't read my post about cleaning and rubbing off stamp mark.


 

  
  I knew the alcohol might take it off, but it was more important to me that the tube be cleaned properly.  Deposits on the glass can induce heat stress afterall.  I did get one tube clean without harming the markings at least. 
   
  It's not my intention to preach, hopefully I do not sound like that.  I think its great you guys have the income to really take this hobby as far as you want to go with it.  I had to borrow from my savings to buy this pair of TSRP, but I knew I would never be happy until I did it so I just did it.  So long as they make music I'm content.
   
  Interesting you should mention these don't sound quite as loud because that was my intial impression too, but I decided later it might just be my internal volume knob so to speak being maladjusted because after about 30 minutes of listening I settled on the volume on the Woo pointing at the "W" (about 10:30) like I always do with most of my tubes.  The only pair of tubes that ever seem noticeably quieter than the rest are the Sylvania Bad Boys, but I think that is due to how they present their sound.  Soooooo laid back.


----------



## nikongod

In the "post pictures of your tubes glowing" thread someone posted a photo of a 6F8G in a woo 6. 
   
  how can this work? I was responded that the tubes were similar enough, however a brief glance at the datasheets for both sections of the 6de7 show that they are not exact replacements of each other.


----------



## flaming_june

the same case with glen's adaptors making it work on wa6 maybe?


----------



## nikongod

Can you show me why its a good idea? The only good thing I see is that people can roll any tube that fits the socket.
  Or prove that its not a flat out bad one? Has anyone posted information to PROVE that the second triode (the ouptut triode) is operating below its rated power?


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I can understand returning tubes due to a loose base or signs of arcing. I can't understand returning them because they were made one month apart in the same year.


 
   
  I forgot to mention that on the Nov 1942 tube the glass is cocked and pretty crooked, and yes I know this is only cosmetic. 
   
  However if and when I would resell these tubes, not having them date matched and with the addition of the visual flaw, the value would be significantly reduced. 
   
  In any event this particular set was not what was pictured or described and this is the reason for me returning them. 
   
  As I said the other set I received was flawless so I did not expect these to be any different; I guess he just got down to the bottom of the barrel so to say.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I can understand returning tubes due to a loose base or signs of arcing. I can't understand returning them because they were made one month apart in the same year.


 

 Or even one day apart, as they could have been made on 10/31 and 11/1.


----------



## takezo

ari, wooaudio implemented triode 1 as the power section and triode 2 as the drive section.
  the median voltage at the plate of triode 1 is 170v and triode 2 is 60v. the plates see less
  than 3mA, which translates to well below the 2.5w plate dissipation max. of the 6sn7 types.
  it's just a guess but wooaudio set the plate voltage at 60v for the drive section to lower the
  distortion/noise, which otherwise would have to be dealt with at near its max. of 150v.(6de7)
  surprisingly, the 6ns7 sounds great even at those low operating points.
   
  on the 6SE, voltages are 220v and 60v, with 6mA current riding the plates.


----------



## MuppetFace

I know I'm a little late to the party, but I've just placed my order for the WA22 in black. I also ordered the Sylvania 7236 tubes and the EML 5U4G rectifier upgrade.
   
  Eeeee.... I can't wait!


----------



## Skylab

Congrats, MuppetFace.  I bet you will love it.  I've only heard the WA22 at CanJam, but it was terrific, and I love my WA2.


----------



## grokit

Welcome to the club, MuppetFace, and congratulations in advance!


----------



## vinyllp33

Congrats x 2 MuppetFace, welcome to club Woo.

 And I commend your choice of Black, it looks so elegant in person.

 Wait until you harness up your K1000's!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Congrats x3. You're gonna love your WA22 to the max, MuppetFace. Welcome to ClubWoo, too!


----------



## jc9394

X4, congrats. You will love it, I love mines to dead.


----------



## matthewh133

Thought this would be a good place to ask this question. How well can the WA6 (PDPS) drive the HD800/T1/LCD-2? Atm I would be using it with the HD650, but down the track will most likely upgrade and want to get an amp decent enough to power these


----------



## dannie01

X 5, congrats and welcome to the club MuppetFace, you will never regret on your WA22.


----------



## TheWuss

matthewh133 said:


> Thought this would be a good place to ask this question. How well can the WA6 (PDPS) drive the HD800/T1/LCD-2? Atm I would be using it with the HD650, but down the track will most likely upgrade and want to get an amp decent enough to power these




Well, in truth those are all very different cans in terms of driving them.
 I find the wa6 to be satisfactory, but not great, with high impedance cans. But, have found that it does much better with low impedance cans like the lcd-2.


----------



## matthewh133

Yeah I realize they are all very different, but the question was meant to find out how well they can drive the lower impedance cans, all the way up to the higher end of the scale. Basically was looking for their versatility as I don't want to buy one, then have to sell it to fund another when I decide to get something like the T1 or HD800.


----------



## dmac03

x6, muppetface. Nice choice of the amp and color. mine is black as well (but my brown base 6sn7wgt's don't exactly go well with it though haha)
   
  Its just a matter of time before you are addicted to tube rolling!
   
  By the way, what lead time did he quote you?


----------



## Audiogalore

X6, Congrats! Once received please let us know how well theWA22 drives the K1000.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Thought this would be a good place to ask this question. How well can the WA6 (PDPS) drive the HD800/T1/LCD-2? Atm I would be using it with the HD650, but down the track will most likely upgrade and want to get an amp decent enough to power these


 
   
  I use my WA6 mainly with my T1 and they sound just superb. The volume pot does end up at about 3 o'clock dependant on tubes used. I also use 600ohm DT880's, in fact the WA6 is just great with everything including IEM's.


----------



## MuppetFace

Thanks everyone! This is my first high-end tube amp, so I'm really excited. I can't wait to try out rolling once I'm more familiar with it. 
   
  Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> By the way, what lead time did he quote you?


 
   
  Jack said it will be ready in about two weeks. Just in time for my Edition 10 to arrive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> X6, Congrats! Once received please let us know how well theWA22 drives the K1000.


 
   
  Will do! That's one of the reasons why I went with the WA22 over the WA6SE.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I use my WA6 mainly with my T1 and they sound just superb. The volume pot does end up at about 3 o'clock dependant on tubes used. I also use 600ohm DT880's, in fact the WA6 is just great with everything including IEM's.


 
   
  That's fantastic that your WA6 drives the T1 superbly. I'm thinking about getting either a T1 or a LCD-2 though I can't make up my mind.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks everyone! This is my first high-end tube amp, so I'm really excited. I can't wait to try out rolling once I'm more familiar with it.


 


  I would say congrats, but I'm not sure that's the word to use since it's more like a death sentence for your bank account. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You have some very nice tubes, but I'd recommend trying a pair of GEC 6080s if you can find them, and some of the 6F8G flavors.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's fantastic that your WA6 drives the T1 superbly. I'm thinking about getting either a T1 or a LCD-2 though I can't make up my mind.


 
   
  I'm not familiar with the LCD-2 or it's signature but I can say that the T1 is very well suited. I can honestly say that my set up is the best it has ever been. Obviously I'd like upgrade at some point but even small improvements at this level tend to be disproportionate to cost. I'm very happy for now with my WA6 with EML 5U4G + TS BGRP's and of course the T1.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's fantastic that your WA6 drives the T1 superbly. I'm thinking about getting either a T1 or a LCD-2 though I can't make up my mind.


 

 LOL get one of each.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm not familiar with the LCD-2 or it's signature but I can say that the T1 is very well suited. I can honestly say that my set up is the best it has ever been. Obviously I'd like upgrade at some point but even small improvements at this level tend to be disproportionate to cost. I'm very happy for now with my WA6 with EML 5U4G + _*TS BGRP*_'s and of course the T1.


 


 I think your TS BGRP's are the clincher for your WA6's sound excellence with theT1. That for me is something I should have invested in when I had the opportunity. Now the price has gone through the roof! I'm glad you've got that EML TS combo. What are you using in your 6080 socket?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's fantastic that your WA6 drives the T1 superbly. I'm thinking about getting either a T1 or a LCD-2 though I can't make up my mind.


 

 The T1 is more efficient than the LCD2 so it would go better with the WA6, I would get the WA6SE to go with the LCD2


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think your TS BGRP's are the clincher for your WA6's sound excellence with theT1. That for me is something I should have invested in when I had the opportunity. Now the price has gone through the roof! I'm glad you've got that EML TS combo. What are you using in your 6080 socket?


 

 WA6 does not use separate power tube, so no 6080 socket.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WA6 does not use separate power tube, so no 6080 socket.


 

 That's right. When I saw you had those coveted TS BGRP, my brain automatically switch from a WA6 to WA22. My bad. Thanks for clarifying it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





takezo said:


> ari, wooaudio implemented triode 1 as the power section and triode 2 as the drive section.
> the median voltage at the plate of triode 1 is 170v and triode 2 is 60v.


 


 There is a thought that has been bothering me for a while now.  Much of my justification for spending on expensive 6SN7 is because if I upgrade to a WA22 in the future the tubes can carry over to that amp.  I was wondering, because the WA6 was designed around a dissimilar triode, would operating the 6SN7 in it cause a balanced set of tubes to become unbalanced over time?  In other words will one triode section become weaker faster than the other over a long period of use, causing the sections to be unmatched if the tubes were to be used in a WA22 later on?
   
  If this is the case the TSRs are going to see limited use in this amp.  I'll consider them more of an investment for future enjoyment.


----------



## takezo

it's unlikely one section of the tube will wear out faster than the other merely due to
  difference of voltage being applied. it's the cathode current that will cause the lessening
  of emission if it exceeds what the coating on the cathode section can take. the 6sn7 can
  take up to 20mA, the wa6 puts less than 3mA there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

As always your responses are detailed and extremely helpful.  Thank you takezo.  It was reassuring to hear this information.  So not only will it do no harm to the tubes to operate them in the WA6, but they will definitely last a long time in this application too.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> As always your responses are detailed and extremely helpful.  Thank you takezo.  It was reassuring to hear this information.  So not only will it do no harm to the tubes to operate them in the WA6, but they will definitely last a long time in this application too.


 

 This has to be one of the most helpful, consistently on-topic, and respectful threads on Head-fi. Long live _Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite_!


----------



## SpudHarris

x2 - That's because most of the guys on hear are true gentlemen.
   
  I get fed up with the threads where people are back biting and sniping at each other constantly, it wears me out and it's so unnessessary.
   
  I come here to relax and soak up the knowledge.


----------



## debitsohn

anyone have some recommendations on ez80/81 tube upgrades taht are available on ebay? i have 40$ in ebay bucks id like to spend on tubes for my WA2.


----------



## mikemalter

I'm just starting to tube roll, and am looking at tubes for sale on eBay.  I was intrigued by the thread about the Tung-Sol 6SN7 round plate, and am seeing prices like $400.00 buy now for a matched pair.  Is this the pricing I can expect for this tube?
   
  The drivers in my WA22 are Shuguang Treasures I got from Jack.  Can someone please let me know if it is worth the additional $100.00 or so dollars for the Tung-Sol's?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> anyone have some recommendations on ez80/81 tube upgrades taht are available on ebay? i have 40$ in ebay bucks id like to spend on tubes for my WA2.


 


  I'm using Mullards and love them, but I do not see a pair of those on EBay right now.  The Valvo's also have a pretty good reputation.  What are you using now?


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm using Mullards and love them, but I do not see a pair of those on EBay right now.  The Valvo's also have a pretty good reputation.  What are you using now?


 


  stock.  clayton graciously sent me a couple for free to get me started in tube rolling but one of them seems to have gone out. gotta recheck them today after work tho.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm using Mullards and love them, but I do not see a pair of those on EBay right now.  The Valvo's also have a pretty good reputation.  What are you using now?


 

 I just got these Mullards two weeks ago on eBay from England. Can you tell the difference in SQ between the EZ80 and EZ81? It's too bad they hide behind the 6080 in the WA2. But I can see them peeking from behind.


----------



## Skylab

I've never tried an EZ81.


----------



## Clayton SF

Sorry, the print is "British Made" and not "Made in England." I can't tell the difference between the 80 and 81 at least with the ones I have.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm just starting to tube roll, and am looking at tubes for sale on eBay.  I was intrigued by the thread about the Tung-Sol 6SN7 round plate, and am seeing prices like $400.00 buy now for a matched pair.  Is this the pricing I can expect for this tube?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  I will let you know tonight, my Treasure is around 20 hours on it and the TS BGRP only have 1 hours that my wife tested to make sure it work.


----------



## flaming_june

That's it I'm gona get a w22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> That's it I'm gona get a w22.


 


  Just do it.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just do it.


 


 X 2. Smart decision.


----------



## jc9394

Finally back from business trip, currently listening to WA22 with GEC 6080, Treasure, and EML 5U4G.  I totally missed this setup, the JH13 I use during travel is great but lacks the soundstage.  I check the TS 6SN7 BGRP, everything is fine, no loose base.  I will give the Treasure couple hours before roll TS to give it a small comparison.  It will be an unfair comparison, I have over 25 hours on the Treasure and the TS has only one hour that my wife put on.


----------



## mikemalter

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts.  Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will let you know tonight, my Treasure is around 20 hours on it and the TS BGRP only have 1 hours that my wife tested to make sure it work.


----------



## mikemalter

Absolutely, go for it - you'll never look back.
  
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> That's it I'm gona get a w22.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally back from business trip, currently listening to WA22 with GEC 6080, Treasure, and EML 5U4G.  I totally missed this setup, the JH13 I use during travel is great but lacks the soundstage.  I check the TS 6SN7 BGRP, everything is fine, no loose base.  I will give the Treasure couple hours before roll TS to give it a small comparison.  It will be an unfair comparison, I have over 25 hours on the Treasure and the TS has only one hour that my wife put on.


 

 Hey John. Any update about the TS RPBG and the GEC 6AS7?


----------



## jc9394

They are shipped to the office, I probably swing by tomorrow to pick it up. So far I'm loving the TS now, they are worth the money.


----------



## mikemalter

Do you mind if I ask how much you paid for your Tung-Sol, and where you got them?

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They are shipped to the office, I probably swing by tomorrow to pick it up. So far I'm loving the TS now, they are worth the money.


----------



## jc9394

350, on eBay but some buyer said loose base but my pair are fine.


----------



## mikemalter

From your experience, the Tung-Sol are better than the Shuguang Treasures, and worth the money?
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> 350, on eBay but some buyer said loose base but my pair are fine.


----------



## dmac03

I'm currently bididing for a pair on ebay. By all means, the highest bidder deserves them but I hope that we aren't bidding against each other driving up the cost.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I'm currently bididing for a pair on ebay. By all means, the highest bidder deserves them but I hope that we aren't bidding against each other driving up the cost.


 

 Not me. Not this time. I had rent to pay.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> From your experience, the Tung-Sol are better than the Shuguang Treasures, and worth the money?







 Yes, they are totally different. The Treasure is the best new production tubes I heard and it is slightly bright, which makes aound very well with deep voice female vocal (Diana Krall). But not too well with rock, dance, and hip hop. The TS is very well all around tube and I can tell the soundstage are deeper and 3D. I really need mordant time to give it a proper impression. It certainly beats the Brimar CV1988 that I love from the get go.


----------



## Sesam

I'm having a really difficult time trying to decide what Woo amp to get, so I'm curious about what you people think.
   
  My main headphone is going to be a Beyerdynamic T1. But later I'm planning on getting another "high-end" headphone to compliment it, probably LCD 2, Ultrasone Edition 8 or Grado PS1000.
   
  First I was set on the WA2, but now I'm starting to get anxious about it. I know that the WA2 would work well with the T1, but what about the other phones? The WA6 SE appears to be a more versatile amp, but how much worse would it be for the T1? Would the difference be subtle or noticeable?... Maybe I should not be looking at WA2 or WA6 SE at all, would say the WA5 LE be better for all of those head phones, and thus be a more "future proof" option?  (though it would be beyond my current budget, and It would mean no new amp for a few more months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## jc9394

dmac03 said:


> I'm currently bididing for a pair on ebay. By all means, the highest bidder deserves them but I hope that we aren't bidding against each other driving up the cost.







 http://cgi.ebay.com/M-PR-RARE-TUNG-SOL-ROUND-PLATE-6SN7-GT-TUBE-1-3-/290483521036?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a22ac60c#ht_521wt_922

 This? Let me drive up the price...j/k. I can't afford any more premium tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Sesam, what is you source? If it is balanced, I would go for WA22 and if money is not an issue, go for the WA5LE. Skip all the upgrade and will save you some money in the future.


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sesam, what is you source? If it is balanced, I would go for WA22 and if money is not an issue, go for the WA5LE. Skip all the upgrade and will save you some money in the future.


 

 Well the source is going to be unbalanced (well at least prior I didn't have any plans to go balanced), Asus Xonar STX possibly getting an external DAC however, so I guess that puts the WA22 out of the question. Money is kind of an issue, however if I feel it is justified I would save up for the WA5LE. I don't want to have any regrets either, that's what makes this so difficult


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Well the source is going to be unbalanced (well at least prior I didn't have any plans to go balanced), so I guess that puts the WA22 out of the question. Money is kind of an issue, however if I feel it is justified I would save up for the WA5LE. I don't want to have any regrets either, that's what makes this so difficult


 

 The WA22 is both balanced and single-ended so if you decide to go balance later, it's ready for you.


----------



## jc9394

Correct on WA22, the unbalanced input is not as good as balanced by a mile. I tested it with my PWD, it is a big difference. That is probably why Jack do not recommend to get the WA22 when i told him I dob't have a balanced source. He recommend me to wait until when I got the balanced source since i have WA6 already. If you can afford the WA5, Jack really recommended it if money is no issue or can save up for it.


----------



## Sesam

[size=medium]Hmm I see, well the WA5 LE does not cost that much more than the WA22.. so I guess if I decide to go broke I might just as well go all the way x)​[/size]


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Not me. Not this time. I had rent to pay.


 

 Uhhh... Clayton, didn't you get the memo?  In order to be a certified Head-Fi'er, you need to have a separate bank account for your audio-related purchases, which must never go unused for more than one week.
   
  "I had rent to pay."  And you call yourself a Head-Fi'er.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In all seriousness though, buying expensive tubes isn't a bad idea.  What costs $200 now may cost $400 in two years.  I'm glad I have my backup pair of TS 7236s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All this WA5LE talk has made me question my WA22 decision.  I'm tempted to sell my WA22 and go for the next best thing.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Correct on WA22, the unbalanced input is not as good as balanced by a mile. I tested it with my PWD, it is a big difference. That is probably why Jack do not recommend to get the WA22 when i told him I dob't have a balanced source. He recommend me to wait until when I got the balanced source since i have WA6 already. If you can afford the WA5, Jack really recommended it if money is no issue or can save up for it.


 
   
  I had to send my WA22 in to Jack for an unrelated issue, and upon request he converted my SE input to balanced so now the WA22 has two balanced inputs and no SE input. The price was reasonable, so I think the hardest part was drilling the bigger holes. I think I got the idea from seamaster, I believe he ordered his that way. So now I get to choose between a balanced DAC and a balanced phono stage, bliss!


----------



## Surreal.

I think I posted this a few weeks ago but I'll ask again since I'm getting ready to buy; I'm looking for a DAC around $3-400 to match my Woo 6.
   
  It'll be used with a HD650. I'm looking at the FS/T forums and I see a Gamma 2 and a Pico recently listed. Anyone have any thoughts on these and synergy with the above? Any other suggestions in this bracket I should be looking out for? 
   
  TIA.


----------



## jc9394

surreal. said:


> I think I posted this a few weeks ago but I'll ask again since I'm getting ready to buy; I'm looking for a DAC around $3-400 to match my Woo 6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 Get the gamma2, the USB section is very similiar sounding, possible using the same chip but gamma2 is more flexible with more inputs and outputs.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Uhhh... Clayton, didn't you get the memo?  In order to be a certified Head-Fi'er, you need to have a separate bank account for your audio-related purchases, which must never go unused for more than one week.
> 
> "I had rent to pay."  And you call yourself a Head-Fi'er.
> 
> ...


 

 After the last few posts I was thinking the same. I need 3 banking accounts, 1 Swiss (if that still is a safe place to keep my money--what mone?). You're so right about being a Head-Fi'er though. No excuses! I will NOT pay rent next month and get my first of many pairs of Tung-Sol "anythings!"


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> After the last few posts I was thinking the same. I need 3 banking accounts, 1 Swiss (if that still is a safe place to keep my money--what mone?). You're so right about being a Head-Fi'er though. No excuses! I will NOT pay rent next month and get my first of many pairs of Tung-Sol "anythings!"







 X2, we need at least two accounts. If my wife knows how much I spent on tubes lately, i'm sure either I'm dead or will receive a letter from a lawyer.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, we need at least two accounts. If my wife knows how much I spent on tubes lately, i'm sure either I'm dead or will receive a letter from a lawyer.


 

 It's a good thing that she thinks you're into collecting old light bulbs. You could at least show her the light bulb catalog from your local hardware store if she get suspicious.
   
  "Yes, dear. I know it doesn't look quite like the ones that are in my *Woo Table Lamp* but, but, but.... "So how are the kids doing?"


----------



## jc9394

You can only go so far with the old light bulb excuse. One if these days she will find out, she probably did already but just play dumb for now until we get into disagreement. Maybe I should buy her couple pair of shoe or maybe a handbag to get some brownie points.

 OT - Clayton, are you in SF area? I travel to SF few times a year, maybe I will PM you for couple drinks next time I'm in SF.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You can only go so far with the old light bulb excuse. One if these days she will find out, she probably did already but just play dumb for now until we get into disagreement. Maybe I should buy her couple pair of shoe or maybe a handbag to get some brownie points.
> 
> OT - Clayton, are you in SF area? I travel to SF few times a year, maybe I will PM you for couple drinks next time I'm in SF.


 
  Sounds like a plan. A few drinks and we can start at the San Francisco International Airport. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yes I live smack dab in the middle of San Francisco on a hill. Here's a photo of a hotel that is a block from where I live.


----------



## mikemalter

Clayton, you ever get across the bridge into San Rafael?  I live right near the Marin County Civic Center.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sounds like a plan. A few drinks and we can start at the San Francisco International Airport.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You can only go so far with the old light bulb excuse. One if these days she will find out, she probably did already but just play dumb for now until we get into disagreement. Maybe I should buy her couple pair of shoe or maybe a handbag to get some brownie points.
> 
> OT - Clayton, are you in SF area? I travel to SF few times a year, maybe I will PM you for couple drinks next time I'm in SF.


 

 (SilentOne breaks silence...) Shoes and handbags are always a wise investment. I use to work off of Rodeo Drive and I can testify! Though you'll get far more mileage out of your purchases if they're made independent of crisis or an act of covering your... (huge grin).
   
  I just hope you avoid getting walked in on one day: "Honey, guess what?! (holds up iPhone with photo of TS-BGRP) I found this on eBay today going for $450a pair! I was thinking since we have 4 of them and you only paid $14 a piece for 'em, we could sell a pair and take my sister Jan & Eric out to dinner next Sunday."
   
  Also, jc9394, if I remember correctly, didn't you pickup your supercharged WA22 from Dannie? Personally, I would love to get your feedback after you sat down and listened to a youthful Ella Fitzgerald on that rig. Magic can be as simple as a voice floating inside your head...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> * * * *
> 
> Also, jc9394, if I remember correctly, didn't you pickup your supercharged WA22 from Dannie? Personally, I would love to get your feedback after you sat down and listened to a youthful Ella Fitzgerald on that rig. Magic can be as simple as a voice floating inside your head...


 

 And Ella definitely floats inside my head. I'm listening to _Ella Fitzgerald and Andre Previn do Gershwin_ on a Woo!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Sounds like a plan. A few drinks and we can start at the San Francisco International Airport.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 Sweet, I know exactly where you are. I usually stay across from Union Sq, should be a very short walk to Hotel Huntington area. Ever been to the Burger Bar? I love the one in Vegas but never been to the one in SF. The last time I'm in SF, I spend too much time in an Irish bar. 

 Back on track, you WA22 gets a very nice view of Nob Hill...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Clayton, you ever get across the bridge into San Rafael?  I live right near the Marin County Civic Center.


 

 San Rafael, I used to pass through your fair city on my way to Healdsburg when I worked for Chalk Hill Winery. Now I don't and I don't own a car (who needs one in SF when you have Muni and Bart, eh?). Anyway. I can take a ferry to Larkspur with a handful of tubes and meet you there. Perhaps you already have all the tubes you need but I got some doozies.
   
  The sun is setting on San Francisco. I must turn roll more tubes!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And Ella definitely floats inside my head. I'm listening to _Ella Fitzgerald and Andre Previn do Gershwin_ on a Woo!


 
   
  Also love me some Sarah Vaughn. But there's something about Ella's voice that sounds effortless... as if you're seated with her on the couch and in the middle of the conversation she breaks out in song! Clayton, you've great tastes in amps and media. I too, will have to get in contact with you - up from SoCal, living in the greater Eastbay on a temporary basis.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Also love me some Sarah Vaughn. Theres something about Ella's voice that sounds effortless... as if you're seated with her on the couch and in the middle of the conversation she breaks out in song! Clayton, you've great tastes in amps and media. I too, will have to get in contact with you - up from SoCal, living in the greater Eastbay on a temporary basis.


 

 That's great. I have this CD (I originally had the vinyl LP but who knows where that went) by Carmen McRae--_I'm Coming Home Again_. Incredible. And Nancy Wilson's--_Forbidden Lover_ (although some selections may be deemed a bit dated) had her at her height of her vocal dexterity. Who says getting older is bad? NOS tubes are old and getting better and some of those older artists are really at their craft when they mature.
   
  These would have been committed to the corner hutch amongst cobwebs had I not gotten a Woo Amp. It's made me rediscover music. Thanks to Jack Wu and family!
   
  http://amzn.to/cHGr9p


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> (SilentOne breaks silence...) Shoes and handbags are always a wise investment. I use to work off of Rodeo Drive and I can testify! Though you'll get far more mileage out of your purchases if they're made independent of crisis or an act of covering your... (huge grin).
> 
> I just hope you avoid getting walked in on one day: "Honey, guess what?! (holds up iPhone with photo of TS-BGRP) I found this on eBay today going for $450a pair! I was thinking since we have 4 of them and you only paid $14 a piece for 'em, we could sell a pair and take my sister Jan & Eric out to dinner next Sunday."
> 
> Also, jc9394, if I remember correctly, didn't you pickup your supercharged WA22 from Dannie? Personally, I would love to get your feedback after you sat down and listened to a youthful Ella Fitzgerald on that rig. Magic can be as simple as a voice floating inside your head...


 

  
  My wife have expensive taste on handbag, only two brands she like and both are from France.  It will give me some mileage on them.  The last time she and her girl friends in France is a bleeding in my wallet.
   
  Ella, I need to dig her CD up from the attic first.  I have not converted she stuffs to lossless yet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> My wife have expensive taste on handbag, only two brands she like and _*both are from France*_.  It will give me some mileage on them.  The last time she and her girl friends in France is a bleeding in my wallet.
> 
> Ella, I need to dig her CD up from the attic first.  I have not converted she stuffs to lossless yet.


 

 There you GO! She loves handbags from *France* and you love old light bulbs from, _*Holland, England, Germany, and USA*_--just to name a few countries. At least your taste is a little broader!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I'm currently bididing for a pair on ebay. By all means, the highest bidder deserves them but I hope that we aren't bidding against each other driving up the cost.


 

 Don't forget you are bidding on used tubes, what is the condition of these tubes? Do they have a loose base or a cracked base, do they come with the original box's, when were they made?  Will the seller refund your money if when you test them they don't come up with the same test results?
   
  I also got a loose base from that seller (not the same seller you are bidding on), I am currently waiting for a refund. As I said if you are going to pay a premium price then you want a premium tube.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/M-PR-RARE-TUNG-SOL-ROUND-PLATE-6SN7-GT-TUBE-1-3-/290483521036?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a22ac60c#ht_521wt_922
> 
> This? Let me drive up the price...j/k. I can't afford any more premium tubes.


 

 Ahh...yes!! those are the ones I'm bidding on. It is heating up going into the final day. I probably won't win - it depends on if I have a beer in my hand during the final hours.
   
  On a side note, silly sally preached not to purchase tubes with cracked bases. Well, out of ignorance, a single tube from the pair of syl 6sn7wgt's I purchased had a small cracked.  Sure enough, it died after approx 10 hrs of use. Fortunately, the seller offered a 30 day warranty.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Ahh...yes!! those are the ones I'm bidding on. It is heating up going into the final day. I probably won't win - it depends on if I have a beer in my hand during the final hours.


 

 Good luck to you. I'm rooting for you with beer in hand.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I also got a loose base from that seller (not the same seller you are bidding on), I am currently waiting for a refund. As I said if you are going to pay a premium price then you want a premium tube.


 

 True, no one wants to pay ridiculous amounts of money only to get a loose base on a tube.
   
  BUT, I bought a pair of Ken-Rad 6F8Gs a while ago and one came with a loose base.  I just used crazy glue to steady it, and used isopropyl alcohol the next day to remove any excess residue.  I've been using this tube for about a month or so with absolutely no issues.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> True, no one wants to pay ridiculous amounts of money only to get a loose base on a tube.
> 
> BUT, I bought a pair of Ken-Rad 6F8Gs a while ago and one came with a loose base.  I just used crazy glue to steady it, and used isopropyl alcohol the next day to remove any excess residue.  I've been using this tube for about a month or so with absolutely no issues.


 
  Glenn, who made those adapters for the 6F8Gs, suggested that I use the same glue that is used to cement mirrors to auto windshields when reattaching items like grid cap connectors back to its glass base. Tricky it may be but it works says he. I have yet to try it but I respect his advice on the subject. Just don't get it on your fingers.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> True, no one wants to pay ridiculous amounts of money only to get a loose base on a tube.
> 
> BUT, I bought a pair of Ken-Rad 6F8Gs a while ago and one came with a loose base.  I just used crazy glue to steady it, and used isopropyl alcohol the next day to remove any excess residue.  I've been using this tube for about a month or so with absolutely no issues.


 

 Yes these tubes should still be ok with a loose or cracked base, but when they are in that kind of condition that raises a red flag for me. I only want the best of the best and I am willing to pay for that. I paid $400 per set for my two sets of NOSIB TSRP's, and I did get what I paid for these tubes are flawless. Also the TSRP's that I did get and have where inspected by the USN twice, once when the USN excepted them and then again in the early mid 50's. So I am pretty sure these tubes where not rejected by the USN.
   
  As far as gluing a base I can not comment on that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Ahh...yes!! those are the ones I'm bidding on. It is heating up going into the final day. I probably won't win - it depends on if I have a beer in my hand during the final hours.
> 
> On a side note, silly sally preached not to purchase tubes with cracked bases. Well, out of ignorance, a single tube from the pair of syl 6sn7wgt's I purchased had a small cracked.  Sure enough, it died after approx 10 hrs of use. Fortunately, the seller offered a 30 day warranty.


 

 I think those particular Syls are notorious for dying young anyway.  I've never seen a tube taken apart to see how the glass joins to the base.  It would be interesting to know just how big a factor this could be.  I keep thinking that as long as the crack doesn't involve the glass it should be okay because the vacuum integrity is not affected.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's great. I have this CD (I originally had the vinyl LP but who knows where that went) by Carmen McRae--_I'm Coming Home Again_. Incredible. And Nancy Wilson's--_Forbidden Lover_ (although some selections may be deemed a bit dated) had her at her height of her vocal dexterity. Who says getting older is bad? NOS tubes are old and getting better and some of those older artists are really at their craft when they mature.
> 
> These would have been committed to the corner hutch amongst cobwebs had I not gotten a Woo Amp. It's made me rediscover music. Thanks to Jack Wu and family!
> 
> http://amzn.to/cHGr9p


 

 Would have been committed to the corner hutch...?! That's exactly where my treasures reside! I share your story - since getting my Woo in July, suddenly I'm rediscovering music. Sold much of my vinyl, reel-to-reel decks & turntable because of the lure of digital (CDs - we all know how that promise turned out). My Woo has me excited again! I now find myself looking for tubes and hi-res downloads.
   
  Kind of want to stay away from replacing my vinyl collection with CDs. May pickup a nice budget turntable 'round $500 and start buying and ripping vinyl. By chance, have you ever heard the studio album "Session III" put out by the Yamaha R & D Studio (1981) to promote Yamaha instruments? On board was a 19 year old prodigy Keiko Doi (now Keiko Matsui), Nathan East and others... wonderful jazz session!


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Don't forget you are bidding on used tubes, what is the condition of these tubes? Do they have a loose base or a cracked base, do they come with the original box's, when were they made?  Will the seller refund your money if when you test them they don't come up with the same test results?
> 
> I also got a loose base from that seller (not the same seller you are bidding on), I am currently waiting for a refund. As I said if you are going to pay a premium price then you want a premium tube.


 


  
  sillysally brings up a very relevant point: I know perfection often can be an elusive goal but I expect, no demand, nothing less when I am shelling out the long-green.

 There are certain LP's that are just like NOS tubes; I am willing to pay top dollar but unwilling to compromise.

 Often in these situations it really doesn't come down to the money per se but one's willingness to have an almost stoic level of patience until the right one comes to market.


----------



## oldwine

i use the RCA 6X4, it's cheap and balanced (compare to stock)
  
  Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> stock.  clayton graciously sent me a couple for free to get me started in tube rolling but one of them seems to have gone out. gotta recheck them today after work tho.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think those particular Syls are notorious for dying young anyway.  I've never seen a tube taken apart to see how the glass joins to the base.  It would be interesting to know just how big a factor this could be.  I keep thinking that as long as the crack doesn't involve the glass it should be okay because the vacuum integrity is not affected.


 

 Here you go, not a "Syls" but you will get the idea.
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/90761/tung-sol-round-plate-in-the-nude-warning-big-pix#post_1054328


----------



## TheWuss

well, guys. 
  i've had my LCD-2 now for a month, and i wanted to share my thoughts on tube rolling the WA6 for this headphone.
  the 6FD7 is THE tube, in my opinion, for the LCD-2.
   
  When i received the LCD-2, i had Glenn's adapters and 6SN7-type tubes in the Woo.  and those remained in the amp until yesterday.
  The sound was dynamite, yes.  But the LCD-2 is just so current hungry that found myself pushing the amp into edginess (as the 6SN7 have less power in this amp).
   
  So yesterday i rolled in my old faithful GE fat bottle 6FD7, and whaddaya know?  i get gobs more power.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  and, to boot, the LCD-2 responds in kind.  The sound in the upper registers fills out a bit more.
  The 6FD7 is very slightly less sweet and less lush than the RCA gray glass VT231 i had in there.  and the (slight) rolled off treble i was experiencing with the LCD-2 has been somewhat mitigated by using the brighter and more energetic 6FD7.
   
  I'm very happy with the sound right now.  and just wanted to share.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  will i be getting rid of my 6SN7 tubes?  no way.  first off, they will pair well with brighter and drier cans.
  and second, i just ordered a little dot MKVI+, and will use them in that amp (sorry to betray the woo family.  the little dot is just such a bargain....)


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> well, guys.
> i've had my LCD-2 now for a month, and i wanted to share my thoughts on tube rolling the WA6 for this headphone.
> the 6FD7 is THE tube, in my opinion, for the LCD-2.


 
 Totally agree. I have settled on the 6FD7 for the LCD-2 with the WA6 as well - definitely the best pairing.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> i use the RCA 6X4, it's cheap and balanced (compare to stock)


 
  ill look into them! thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> i use the RCA 6X4, it's cheap and balanced (compare to stock)


 
  Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> ill look into them! thanks


 
   
  The current WA2 uses EZ80 and EZ81 rectifiers. The previous model uses the 6X4 rectifier. You cannot place a 6X4 in an socket designed for the EZ80. They are not direct substitutes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> ... and second, i just ordered a *little dot MKVI+*, and will use them in that amp (sorry to betray the woo family.  the little dot is just such a bargain....)


 

 I was tempted to get the Little Dot MK VI+ as well but I wasn't quite sure about an amp having 2 fans in its chassis. I still may consider it though.
   
  I own a pair of GE 6FD7 that I have yet to try out. I think I'll fire 'em up today. Thanks.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was tempted to get the Little Dot MK VI+ as well but I wasn't quite sure about an amp having 2 fans in its chassis. I still may consider it though.
> 
> I own a pair of GE 6FD7 that I have yet to try out. I think I'll fire 'em up today. Thanks.


 


 we'll see...  active cooling is definitely a compromise.  but, maybe it won't be audible while listening to the 'phones...


----------



## Maxvla

It isn't audible, either from the headphones or by listening to the chassis, and isn't a compromise what-so-ever.
   
  Also, if you must, you can disconnect the fans entirely, as long as you have the amp out in space (table top) and a low enough ambient (75F or lower), preferably with some air circulation from other sources (ceiling fan, air conditioning).


----------



## grokit

Plus the fans help it heat the room more evenly


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Plus the fans help it heat the room more evenly


 
   
  LOL


----------



## Sesam

Anyone know if it's possible to get the WA5 LE with pre-amp output, and if so how much extra would they charge for it? I figured I would ask here first, because I assume the good people at wooaudio are swamped with email as is


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Anyone know if it's possible to get the WA5 LE with pre-amp output, and if so how much extra would they charge for it? I figured I would ask here first, because I assume the good people at wooaudio are swamped with email as is


 

 If you email tonight, you should get a response by tomorrow. Jack is fairly timely with responses.
   
  There is all this talk about the tsrp's, but has anyone tried these?



  I've read they are another top 6sn7 contender, with the occasional complaint of microphonics.
   
  As I predicted, my ebay bid for the tsrps is quickly going down in flames and I'm looking for alternatives.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> As I predicted, my ebay bid for the tsrps is quickly going down in flames and I'm looking for alternatives.


 

 What! Is there an over abundance of millionaires out there? Or is it just *dannie01* again?


----------



## Skylab

The metal base 6SN7W are really nice tubes. I have a nice pair, and really like them, although I prefer the TS BGRP. They do sound different - the 6SN7W is more of a ballsy, butt-kicker.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> they will pair well with brighter and drier cans.


 


  This is why I'm loving them.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Going back to the 6FD7 I didn't think their dynamics or bass were better, despite these being their strong points.  All I get is much higher gain that I really don't need.  It goes to show how different the experience can be with different cans.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good luck to you. I'm rooting for you with beer in hand.


 

 Clayton, thanks for rooting for me. Even with beer in hand I managed to fail miserably, oh well. Now I'm determined to relieve my sorrows by throwing my wallet toward bigger tubes (literally). Onto the EML rectifier!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Clayton, thanks for rooting for me. Even with beer in hand I managed to fail miserably, oh well. Now I'm determined to relieve my sorrows by throwing my wallet toward bigger tubes (literally). Onto the EML rectifier!


 

 ONWARD! To bigger and better things tubes! The EML Brigade! YES!


----------



## jc9394

I personally think the EML have bigger improvement than TS BGRP if you have a decent driver tubes already.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Onto the EML rectifier!


 

 Onwards to a better place.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The EML really completes the picture.  I totally stopped fussing over how my setup sounded once I got mine.  Now I roll drive tubes mostly to get different flavors, rather than constantly seeking better performance.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I personally think the EML have bigger improvement than TS BGRP if you have a decent driver tubes already.


 


  They sort of need each other to really shine, don't you think?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I must say, though, if somebody told me they could only get the EML or the TSRP and not both I would tell them to get the EML and a pair of TS mouse ears and they would still be having a fantastic listening experience.  Once you hear the round plate though it is hard to dismiss what it brings to the table.  Something akin to taking things beyond satisfying I guess you could say.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Here you go, not a "Syls" but you will get the idea.
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/90761/tung-sol-round-plate-in-the-nude-warning-big-pix#post_1054328


 

 That thread was a good find.  Easily the best look at the plates on a tsrp one can get, with the black coating out of the way.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> They sort of need each other to really shine, don't you think?


 

 YES! They need each other.
   
  It's kinda like you have this friend, this Big Guy that's going to help you over a wall--a sonic barrier wall, if you will. He's going to help you over that barrier that keeps you from the nirvana sound stage you want to hear. You're the one wearing the mouse ears (the little driver guy) and your Big Guy friend, this EML guy is gonna help you 'cause you kinda need each other to get over that sonic barrier wall. Come on Big Guy, help get me over this wall! You both have to work together. One cannot do it without the other--OK. HEAVE-HO!
   
  I'm over the barrier! YES!


----------



## dmac03

Thanks for the encouragement about the EML. It was quite the bummer of a night. First I lost the bid, then my cincy reds got swept in the playoffs.
   
  At least I have the EML on the way and am now focusing on some TS 6f8g's.
   
  jc9394, do you have both the tung-sol 6f8g's and 6sn7's? How do they compare? Skylab, I'm sure you (among others) have had experience with both as well.


----------



## mikemalter

I hope you are right.  My EML should arrive this week sometime, Jack says.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I personally think the EML have bigger improvement than TS BGRP if you have a decent driver tubes already.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> At least I have the EML on the way and am now focusing on some TS 6f8g's.
> 
> jc9394, do you have both the tung-sol 6f8g's and 6sn7's? How do they compare? Skylab, I'm sure you (among others) have had experience with both as well.


 
   
  That's what I was going to suggest for you. The 6F8G's to my ears are a close second to the TS BGRP's. I bought a set for $88 from Vacuumtubes.net. They are incredible value if you can find a set. Good luck, I hope you score a set soon......


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

i noticed you can get a preamp option on the wa3, what about the wa6?   and has anyone compared the wa3 vs csp2 using them as preamp as well as head amps?   thanks


----------



## oldwine

Clayton,
   
  Thanks for your reminding, are they any difference between them? bos i saw many articles that EZ80 and 6X4 are compatible with each other.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The current WA2 uses EZ80 and EZ81 rectifiers. The previous model uses the 6X4 rectifier. You cannot place a 6X4 in an socket designed for the EZ80. They are not direct substitutes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Clayton,
> 
> Thanks for your reminding, are they any difference between them? bos i saw many articles that EZ80 and 6X4 are compatible with each other.


 

 Wow. Thanks, pal. I didn't know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You learn something new every day. Well that's good news (or is it not so good news?). Anyway, what that means is that I can now consider the 6X4 as well as the EZ80/EZ81. Oh no! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Put your wallet down and step away from those tubes.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What! Is there an over abundance of millionaires out there? Or is it just *dannie01* again?


 


 No, I have to quit "old light bulb" bidding for a while. My wallet is already drained. Now start ordering component for the mod.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> jc9394, do you have both the tung-sol 6f8g's and 6sn7's? How do they compare?


 


 I can answer this for jc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, yes, he got both TS 6F8Gs and RPBG. Let's wait for his comparison, if he has time.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I hope you are right.  My EML should arrive this week sometime, Jack says.


 

 I certain this statement, I like this combo very much and highly recommended with a WA22.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I could never really get into the 6SN7s... I've always been a 6F8G man myself.  What with their supple plates and voluptuous electrons... ohhhhh.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Why, just now I rolled in some Sylvania 6F8Gs.  Going from Ken-Rad to RCA to Sylvania was quite a trip, but the Sylvanias may come out on top. 
   
  As a side note, one of the 'Sylvanias' is actually a Zenith (re-branded?).  They appear to be nearly identical in construction, although the Sylvania has a taller and larger base.  These also have painted glass (grey), with a mirror finish down by the base.  They look very much like my Tung-Sols, from a glass standpoint.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Thanks for the encouragement about the EML. It was quite the bummer of a night. First I lost the bid, then my cincy reds got swept in the playoffs.
> 
> At least I have the EML on the way and am now focusing on some TS 6f8g's.
> 
> jc9394, do you have both the tung-sol 6f8g's and 6sn7's? How do they compare? Skylab, I'm sure you (among others) have had experience with both as well.


 
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I can answer this for jc
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I have both and there is no comparison.  The TS 6F8G have too much gains that I only used it for couple hours.  The TS BGRP have much better soundstage than 6F8G.
   
  Danny, too lazy to go into office to pick up the tubes...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I could never really get into the 6SN7s... I've always been a 6F8G man myself.  What with their supple plates and voluptuous electrons... ohhhhh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I was thinking I'm a Brimar CV1988 man myself too until that small black expensive TS tubes show up...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, I have both and there is no comparison.  The TS 6F8G have too much gains that I only used it for couple hours.  The TS BGRP have much better soundstage than 6F8G.
> 
> Danny, too lazy to go into office to pick up the tubes...


 

 That's because his wife is on to his little scheme and he probably has no more room for them at home.


----------



## St3ve

I'm not new to the Woo club, but I do have a new toy:
   

   
  Having decided that I prefer tubes, I swapped another head-fier my phonitor and some cash for it. Even single ended, it sounds really good. Unfortunately, I haven't plucked up the courage to try and re-terminate my HD800 cable (hopefully I can commission a DIYer to do it), but I can't wait to hear it in all it's balanced glory.
   
  Time for me to read all of the wisdom recorded about WA22 tube rolling.


----------



## dmac03

st3ve, very nice. if you are not new to the woo club, at least welcome to the wa22 club. I hope (and am sure) that you will enjoy your new piece of equipment. What tube are you using for the rectifier?
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, I have both and there is no comparison.  The TS 6F8G have too much gains that I only used it for couple hours.  The TS BGRP have much better soundstage than 6F8G.
> 
> Danny, too lazy to go into office to pick up the tubes...


 

 I thought that I just might be content with some other tube types. jc, your words have now you have doomed us all. I will not rest until I obtain some tsrp's.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> They sort of need each other to really shine, don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  TSRP need glen's adapters to work on the WA6 right?


----------



## Torero

Hi St3ve, congratulations for your new woo amp, beautifullllll.
   
  I'm very interested in your wa6 vs wa22 comparision opinion


----------



## TheAudioDude

St3ve, I'll re-terminate your HD800s free of charge if you give me those Shuguang Treasures! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, I'm totally digging these Sylvania 6F8Gs now.  Very fun and dynamic sound.


----------



## St3ve

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> st3ve, very nice. if you are not new to the woo club, at least welcome to the wa22 club. I hope (and am sure) that you will enjoy your new piece of equipment. What tube are you using for the rectifier?


 

 Thanks, I am pretty sure that I am gonna love it! The rectifier in the picture is a sylvania 5931. I initially tried my Princess, and whilst it sounded great, it seemed to pick up some low-level hum (the previous owner had forewarned me). It seems to vary with the different rectifiers that I have tried so far, and it seems to all but disappear with my recently acquired 5931 (thanks spud!). Frankly the hum is very quiet anyhow though and only just audible when no music is playing, so I am not too concerned.
   
  Quote: 





torero said:


> Hi St3ve, congratulations for your new woo amp, beautifullllll.
> 
> I'm very interested in your wa6 vs wa22 comparision opinion


 

 Thanks Torero, I might do a proper A/B comparison tomorrow, and let everyone know.

  
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> St3ve, I'll re-terminate your HD800s free of charge if you give me those Shuguang Treasures!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha - I really lucked out with the previous owner letting me have those, as his stock drivers had failed. Very dramatic looking things!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> That's because his wife is on to his little scheme and he probably has no more room for them at home.







 Clayton, you got it wrong. It is me on my little scheme and try to fool my wife that I have them already. Actually, I'm kicking myself not to pick them. GEC 6AS7G...so sorry that I kept you lonely in the office this weekend. I promise you can play with EML and TS tomorrow night. I think I'm sick...


----------



## jc9394

st3ve said:


> I'm not new to the Woo club, but I do have a new toy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...









dmac03 said:


> st3ve, very nice. if you are not new to the woo club, at least welcome to the wa22 club. I hope (and am sure) that you will enjoy your new piece of equipment. What tube are you using for the rectifier?
> 
> I thought that I just might be content with some other tube types. jc, your words have now you have doomed us all. I will not rest until I obtain some tsrp's.







 St3ve, welcome to the club. You really should get a balanced cable for HD800 to get every bit out of it. The Treasures are my second flavor driver tubes for WA22, I'm guessing you are tube shopping now. 

 dmac03, maybe it is me but to my ears the TS 6F8G is way too much gain and not as good as the TS BGRP. Maybe tbd Raytheon one are better, I may pick up the quad matched from fleabay. The gain really brothers me, I guess I have to lower the output of my DAC and give it another try.


----------



## matthewh133

Can't wait to get my hands on a Woo! I have a HD650 and DT880 600 sitting around in their boxes until a WA6 pops up in the for sale forums haha. Congrats on the pickup Steve!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> TSRP need glen's adapters to work on the WA6 right?


 

 Yes.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





st3ve said:


> I'm not new to the Woo club, but I do have a new toy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  St3ve:
   
  Congratulation on a great and well built product. The treasure tubes look great and hopefully sound fantastic!
   
  If you ever have a opportunity to get a K1000 try it with your amp and give some feedback. I am interested in the amp but my primary go to phones is my K1000.
   
  Enjoy music!


----------



## Silent One

It's just minutes before 0400 hrs and I am at once sleepy yet, excited. One of the better Mondays on record in some time. Monday evening I had a meet-up with Clayton SF and he made quite the impression! Will post details of our listening session perhaps when I break for tea at 1600 hrs (after dinner and NCIS; NCIS Los Angeles more likely).
   
  Once my UPS driver delivered my 1940's Raytheon 6SN7WGT's, my Monday went into full-swing. Tossed 'em in the room, slammed the door and off to "The City that knows how" (S.F.). Once I returned from Clayton's place, I fired up the Raytheons. And while I admit they'll need to burn-in, my out-of-the-box impressions are good... r-e-a-l good!
  Up all night runnin' through my music library as if my hard drive will get repossessed once I quit and go to bed.
   
  Clayton, thanks for having me by...


----------



## jc9394

A package is waiting for me...let's see what is inside...
   

   

   
  Going to be a busy night tonight.


----------



## mikemalter

I was looking at GEC, I'm really interested in your findings.

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A package is waiting for me...let's see what is inside...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A package is waiting for me...let's see what is inside...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 







 No no no. It should have been mine! Mine. Mine mine mine I say. Sorry.
  I'm coming over with a few boxes of pizza--Of your choice of course.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let me look at flights to Boston.
  Congrats.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No no no. It should have been mine! Mine. Mine mine mine I say. Sorry.
> I'm coming over with a few boxes of pizza--Of your choice of course.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Come on over...I will bring them with me next time when I take a flight to SFO...


----------



## Skylab

Congrats, JC!  Nice looking tubes, and in original boxes and all!  I love those in my WA2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I was looking at GEC, I'm really interested in your findings.


 

 I'm using the GEC 6080 now and absolutely love it, hence the backup pair.  I have not tried the GEC 6AS7G, but I heard good things on it and the bonus is Danny highly recommend the GEC 6AS7G when he had the WA22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Congrats, JC!  Nice looking tubes, and in original boxes and all!  I love those in my WA2.


 

 Thanks, they are hard to track down...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Come on over...I will bring them with me next time when I take a flight to SFO...


 

 Yes! Sweet! Now is that before of after we visit an Irish bar? Harringtons is always packed during lunch hour.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes! Sweet! Now is that before of after we visit an Irish bar? Harringtons is always packed during lunch hour.


 

 Has to be sober, we can hit the bar after a long hard listen...


----------



## dannie01

WOO HOO! You finally have the package opened. Congrats for the beauties, John.


----------



## jc9394

Yeah, got a lot of works that need catch up...


----------



## dannie01

I'm sure you'll have a busy night with those beauties.........................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still keep my pair in the closet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yeah, got a lot of works that need catch up...


 

 Did you get those from the Chinese language site? I can't find them anywhere on English sites that look as good as the ones you have pictured.


----------



## jc9394

Keeping the good stuffs???  Luckily I found a pair and special THANKS to the man to get it ship to me.
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I'm sure you'll have a busy night with those beauties.........................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I found it from a website in HK.  But it is not listed, I was getting a pair of GEC 6080 from them and asked the shop owner if he have a pair of 6AS7G.  It takes him a while to gets back to me and said it is my lucky day since he have a BNIB match paired coming in.
  
  EDIT - if you found these in a Taiwan site, they still did not response to my message about shipping to US.
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Did you get those from the Chinese language site? I can't find them anywhere on English sites that look as good as the ones you have pictured.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Gahhh nooooo!  The GEC 6AS7Gs have become my holy grail.  I have a pair of the 6080s (original boxes) and I love them, so naturally I'd want to try the 6AS7G.  If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the pair?


----------



## StevieDvd

Got a cheap  ($17) Tung Sol 5u4g from Ebay, just arrived, one of the pins seems to be a little loose though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The one I received is not as pristine looking as the photo in the auction.
   

   
  Is it much to worry over as it seems to sound quite good, though still leaves a slight hum in between tracks. Only my Mullard GZ34 does not have the hum but I prefer a wider soundstage than the Mullard gives.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Gahhh nooooo!  The GEC 6AS7Gs have become my holy grail.  I have a pair of the 6080s (original boxes) and I love them, so naturally I'd want to try the 6AS7G.  If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the pair?


 

 For the pair I got, it is about same as the Treasures.


----------



## jc9394

I think I found the holy grail, I can stop looking for tubes. Not sure what tubes combo beats the one I'm listening now. From hour one, I start to notice better bass extension while keeping the soundstage and smooth vocals. Ella Fitzgerald's "Nice Work If You Can Get It", it is like listening to her in the old smokey halls live. I actually have to put my iPad down from reading iBook and pay attentions to the music. Will update more tomorrow.


----------



## Skylab

Not surprised. IMO, the GEC 6AS7G is better than the GEC 6080. And pretty much every other 6AS7 tube type. Too bad they're so hard to get.


----------



## AustinHorn

I recently bought JC's old Woo6 Maxx from him (as well as his other cast-off a GD-Audio Phoenix) & have wildly been buying & rolling tubes, several suggested by John himself or supplied with the amp. But today I received a 5AR4 solid state rectifier that I rolled in & replaced the Sophia I got from JC. 
   
  I'm sure I'm not the 1st guy to try this, but I can say I'm really shocked at how nice it sounds with the 2 TSs tubes I have in there with it. I saw them on eBay last week & because of some other posts on other threads involving SS tubes, I couldn't resist. So far, the amp is just getting warmed up, but, in all honesty, the amp has lost non of it's tube like sound. I haven't listened to it in a couple of days with the Sophia in it due to a trip, but if there is a difference in the sound I remember, it is a small one.  Anyway, JC, thanks for selling me the amp. I've managed to spend about as much on tubes as I paid you for the amp.  At least the Phoenix won't have that problem.
   
  Anyway, as I said, I'm sure someone else has done this, but I'm shocked that I don't hear much more of a solid state hardness from the amp than with regular tubes. It still has that warm tubey sound I get with either the GZ34 or Sophia.  I'll turn it off & roll in the GZ34 later since I have to run an errand & see if my short-term memory notices a bigger difference than I think I'm hearing.  Anyway, I'm pretty impressed with my new solid state TUBE!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I found the holy grail, I can stop looking for tubes. Not sure what tubes combo beats the one I'm listening now. From hour one, I start to notice better bass extension while keeping the soundstage and smooth vocals. *Ella Fitzgerald's "Nice Work If You Can Get It"*, it is like listening to her in the old smokey halls live. I actually have to put my iPad down from reading iBook and pay attentions to the music. Will update more tomorrow.


 

 ...and you can get it--if you try.
  And try you did! And you got the GEC 6AS7Gs. Wow!
   
  Funny but I was listening to that song last night as well--Andre Previn on piano (vinyl). The Woo never ceases to amaze me. Now what's this about an ss rectifier. Which one should I try?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I found the holy grail, I can stop looking for tubes. Not sure what tubes combo beats the one I'm listening now. From hour one, I start to notice better bass extension while keeping the soundstage and smooth vocals. Ella Fitzgerald's "Nice Work If You Can Get It", it is like listening to her in the old smokey halls live. I actually have to put my iPad down from reading iBook and pay attentions to the music. Will update more tomorrow.


 

 In my mind I'm seeing images of what you've heard with the utmost clarity. _Envy_ could've easily gotten in the way! For me last night, it was Ella's "How High The Moon..."


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Once my UPS driver delivered my 1940's Raytheon 6SN7WGT's, my Monday went into full-swing. Tossed 'em in the room, slammed the door and off to "The City that knows how" (S.F.).
> 
> Clayton, thanks for having me by...


 

 You're more than welcome.
  You did mention that you probably wouldn't get much sleep with those tube a-burnin' in.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're more than welcome.
> You did mention that you probably wouldn't get much sleep with those tube a-burnin' in.


 
  Tonight will be no different - expecting another all-niter. Connecting the TT to the WA6SE and put it thru its paces. One of the few albums I brought up from L.A. was "San Francisco Dues" - Chuck Berry. The track "Festival" has excellent rhythm guitar licks. I'm anxious to hear it from a tube perspective.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Not surprised. IMO, the GEC 6AS7G is better than the GEC 6080. And pretty much every other 6AS7 tube type. Too bad they're so hard to get.


 

  X 2. Hope you'll like the GEC 6AS7G, the GEC is the best among the tubes I tried in the WA22.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





austinhorn said:


> I recently bought JC's old Woo6 Maxx from him (as well as his other cast-off a GD-Audio Phoenix) & have wildly been buying & rolling tubes, several suggested by John himself or supplied with the amp. But today I received a 5AR4 solid state rectifier that I rolled in & replaced the Sophia I got from JC.
> 
> I'm sure I'm not the 1st guy to try this, but I can say I'm really shocked at how nice it sounds with the 2 TSs tubes I have in there with it. I saw them on eBay last week & because of some other posts on other threads involving SS tubes, I couldn't resist. So far, the amp is just getting warmed up, but, in all honesty, the amp has lost non of it's tube like sound. I haven't listened to it in a couple of days with the Sophia in it due to a trip, but if there is a difference in the sound I remember, it is a small one.  Anyway, JC, thanks for selling me the amp. I've managed to spend about as much on tubes as I paid you for the amp.  At least the Phoenix won't have that problem.
> 
> Anyway, as I said, I'm sure someone else has done this, but I'm shocked that I don't hear much more of a solid state hardness from the amp than with regular tubes. It still has that warm tubey sound I get with either the GZ34 or Sophia.  I'll turn it off & roll in the GZ34 later since I have to run an errand & see if my short-term memory notices a bigger difference than I think I'm hearing.  Anyway, I'm pretty impressed with my new solid state TUBE!


 


  solid state recification offers virtually zero voltage sag compared to tube rectification so the sound will be more dynamic...
  but, you should ask jack of wooaudio if it's alright for the wa6. solid state rectifiers put full voltage immediately to the
  cathode of the output tubes without letting it warm up to put up an electron cloud. this will cause cathode stripping and
  cause premature death to the output tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





takezo said:


> solid state recification offers virtually zero voltage sag compared to tube rectification so the sound will be more dynamic...
> but, you should ask jack of wooaudio if it's alright for the wa6. solid state rectifiers put full voltage immediately to the
> cathode of the output tubes without letting it warm up to put up an electron cloud. this will cause cathode stripping and
> cause _*premature death to the output tubes.*_


 






 Thou shalt not prematurely destroy a Woo even if it is in pursuit of audio nirvana. No Woo, no Way!


----------



## AustinHorn

Good point! I only had it in there for 10 or so minutes before I ran some errands& when I got back, I put the Sophia back in & let it warm up. It sounds great, but before I do any further extra critical listening using the ss, I will ask Jack about it. I understand that even though the specs may be the same/ similar, there are operational differences so it will be smart for me to talk to the expert. Thanks!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





austinhorn said:


> Good point! I only had it in there for 10 or so minutes before I ran some errands& when I got back, I put the Sophia back in & let it warm up. It sounds great, but before I do any further extra critical listening using the ss, I will ask Jack about it. I understand that even though the specs may be the same/ similar, there are operational differences so it will be smart for me to talk to the expert. Thanks!


 

  
  Please keep us up-date what Jack's advise on the SS tubes, thanks.


----------



## flaming_june

jc9394  what source are you using with your WA22?


----------



## spagetka

Hello everyone,
   
  is (are) there a picture(s) of WA5-LE after upgrade? The reason why I am asking is that I am wondering, if it is complicated to take all blackgates away and substitute them in case of need. Thank you very much in advance.


----------



## Silent One

Shibuya Crossing - World's busiest intersection and how I got there! Monday evening I met up with Clayton SF for a listening session. As the sun begin to set over the Pacific, I arrived his place casting a single shadow. When it came time to depart I cast three, count 'em, three shadows! After getting intimate with his WA22 I was clearly beside myself, that's two shadows and the third came from the suitcase packed with some of his goods (gifted me a TT).
   
  While he had a variety of tube amps and I got time with each of them, the WA22 walked away with my attention. To keep my evaluations level and on point, I brought my own single-ended cans (Denons) and two CDs for reference. Would love to hear the WA22 in balanced mode but even in SE mode the amp wowed me. I intentionally chose to bring Astrud Gilberto (Brazil) for this session because her vocals are delicate, sweet and breathy. Diving deep into her recordings was a pleasure. 
   
  The WA22 had a really nice finish to several notes, beautiful decay and projected a bit further out front and 3-D than my WA6SE. Long after I left the WA22's sound continued to linger. Which brings me back to Shibuya Crossing. Two weeks back at summer's end, I had a plan. I would forgo all mods, tweeks, upgrades and save up for a WA5LE. Now that I heard a '22' I realize it's a wonderful option to take should I get tired of saving (impatient?) and look to enjoy some new audio. Dizzy from all the choices, I feel like I'm standing at Shibuya Crossing - committed to going with the crush of so many others when the light changes but what direction?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





takezo said:


> solid state recification offers virtually zero voltage sag compared to tube rectification so the sound will be more dynamic...
> but, you should ask jack of wooaudio if it's alright for the wa6. solid state rectifiers put full voltage immediately to the
> cathode of the output tubes without letting it warm up to put up an electron cloud. this will cause cathode stripping and
> cause premature death to the output tubes.


 


  Takezo, I would just like to say that I find your posts to be among the most useful in all of head-fi.  Thank you!!!


----------



## SpudHarris

Guys, I just received my set of TS BGRP's from Walt (e-bay) and wandered if you could advise me.....
   
  Tube 1 is just perfect and does look brand new. Tube 2 still looks nice (although slightly taller than tube 1) but has a terrible rattle as though there is something loose inside, also the base is ever so slightly loose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have tested them and dispite the issue with tube 2 they do sound amazing. Will the issue with tube 2 shorten it's life do you think? I haven't written to Walt yet as I thought I'd get your take on it.
   
  It's a little disapointing really considering the cost. Also tube 1 is Dec 1942 and tube 2 is Nov 1942. Again, disapointing......


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Shibuya Crossing - World's busiest intersection and how I got there! Monday evening I met up with Clayton SF for a listening session. As the sun begin to set over the Pacific, I arrived his place casting a single shadow. When it came time to depart I cast three, count 'em, three shadows! After getting intimate with his WA22 I was clearly beside myself, that's two shadows and the third came from the suitcase packed with some of his goods (gifted me a TT).
> 
> While he had a variety of tube amps and I got time with each of them, the WA22 walked away with my attention. To keep my evaluations level and on point, I brought my own single-ended cans (Denons) and two CDs for reference. Would love to hear the WA22 in balanced mode but even in SE mode the amp wowed me. I intentionally chose to bring Astrud Gilberto (Brazil) for this session because her vocals are delicate, sweet and breathy. Diving deep into her recordings was a pleasure.
> 
> The WA22 had a really nice finish to several notes, beautiful decay and projected a bit further out front and 3-D than my WA6SE. Long after I left the WA22's sound continued to linger. Which brings me back to Shibuya Crossing. Two weeks back at summer's end, I had a plan. I would forgo all mods, tweeks, upgrades and save up for a WA5LE. Now that I heard a '22' I realize it's a wonderful option to take should I get tired of saving (impatient?) and look to enjoy some new audio. Dizzy from all the choices, I feel like I'm standing at Shibuya Crossing - committed to going with the crush of so many others when the light changes but what direction?


 

 I have heard the WA5LE, it is extremely nice amp and probably better than WA22.  I do no have both together to compare but I'm very happy with my WA22 and unless Jack is making a balanced version of WA5, I probably stop with WA22.  With the tubes combo I have now, I can't image anything better.

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Guys, I just received my set of TS BGRP's from Walt (e-bay) and wandered if you could advise me.....
> 
> Tube 1 is just perfect and does look brand new. Tube 2 still looks nice (although slightly taller than tube 1) but has a terrible rattle as though there is something loose inside, also the base is ever so slightly loose
> 
> ...


 
  You can contact him to get a refund if you are not happy with the purchase.  I'm not a tube expert and can not answer your slight loose base and rattle question.  I'm not that picky on the production date as most of head-fier here.  As long as the date is not more than 3 months and the tubes are matched with tester, I'm happy.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Not surprised. IMO, the GEC 6AS7G is better than the GEC 6080. And pretty much every other 6AS7 tube type. Too bad they're so hard to get.


 

 I'm very surprise myself and thinking not much gain from my GEC 6080 and boy I'm so wrong.  It beats the GEC 6080 on hour one.

  
  Quote: 





austinhorn said:


> I recently bought JC's old Woo6 Maxx from him (as well as his other cast-off a GD-Audio Phoenix) & have wildly been buying & rolling tubes, several suggested by John himself or supplied with the amp. But today I received a 5AR4 solid state rectifier that I rolled in & replaced the Sophia I got from JC.
> 
> I'm sure I'm not the 1st guy to try this, but I can say I'm really shocked at how nice it sounds with the 2 TSs tubes I have in there with it. I saw them on eBay last week & because of some other posts on other threads involving SS tubes, I couldn't resist. So far, the amp is just getting warmed up, but, in all honesty, the amp has lost non of it's tube like sound. I haven't listened to it in a couple of days with the Sophia in it due to a trip, but if there is a difference in the sound I remember, it is a small one.  Anyway, JC, thanks for selling me the amp. I've managed to spend about as much on tubes as I paid you for the amp.  At least the Phoenix won't have that problem.
> 
> Anyway, as I said, I'm sure someone else has done this, but I'm shocked that I don't hear much more of a solid state hardness from the amp than with regular tubes. It still has that warm tubey sound I get with either the GZ34 or Sophia.  I'll turn it off & roll in the GZ34 later since I have to run an errand & see if my short-term memory notices a bigger difference than I think I'm hearing.  Anyway, I'm pretty impressed with my new solid state TUBE!


 

 Thanks, and glad you love the amp as much as I did.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ...and you can get it--if you try.
> And try you did! And you got the GEC 6AS7Gs. Wow!
> 
> Funny but I was listening to that song last night as well--Andre Previn on piano (vinyl). The Woo never ceases to amaze me. Now what's this about an ss rectifier. Which one should I try?


 

 Yes, it takes a while but I'm glad I did give it a try.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> In my mind I'm seeing images of what you've heard with the utmost clarity. _Envy_ could've easily gotten in the way! For me last night, it was Ella's "How High The Moon..."


 

 Yeah, finally convert Ella's stuff to lossless.

  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2. Hope you'll like the GEC 6AS7G, the GEC is the best among the tubes I tried in the WA22.


 


 Big THANKS for you recommendation and help and you are right on keeping them in the closet.  Cause you never knew when you need it and they are hard to track it down, I will do the same myself.
  
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> jc9394  what source are you using with your WA22?


 
   
  iMod/iPhone > Wadia > PWD
  Sony S7700 > PWD
  Lossless > Bridge > PWD


----------



## takezo

skylab, i can say the same for you. thank you for sharing.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Big THANKS for you recommendation and help and you are right on keeping them in the closet.  Cause you never knew when you need it and they are hard to track it down, I will do the same myself.


 


 You are welcome my friend and you're right, you will never know when you need them again in your new purchase. The GEC 6AS7Gs are the only tubes I keep until let go of my amps.


----------



## Golden Monkey

It's been an expensive month or so for me, tubewise (all NOS...or better, lol):
   
  POWER:
 Tung-Sol 5998
 Tung-Sol 6520 - 1950's x2
 Tung-Sol 7236 - 1964, cryo treated
 GE 6AS7G - 1948, clear top, copper radiators
 RCA 6AS7G - 1950's, black plates, bottom getters

 PREAMP:
 Amperex E88CC/6922 - 1959 (*9K), Hicksville NY production, D getters, PQ Shield label, matched pair x2
 Amperex PCC88/7DJ8 - 1968, Heerlen Holland production, Valvo/BWB labels, matched quad
 Mullard ECC88/6DJ8 - 1966 (B6B3), Blackburn UK production, IEC labels, matched pair
 Siemens & Halske CCa - 1961 (A0 1≠ 2K), Munich production, matched pair
 Voskhod 6N1P - 1978, Kaluga City production, Russian Milsurp x8
  
  I don't even want to think about how much I spent on all of them, lol.  Not to mention that my Woo3+ just got Black Gates from Jack...*sigh*...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You are welcome my friend and you're right, you will never know when you need them again in your new purchase. The GEC 6AS7Gs are the only tubes I keep until let go of my amps.


 
  That GEC 6AS7G does wonder with WA22. 
  
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> It's been an expensive month or so for me, tubewise (all NOS...or better, lol):
> 
> POWER:
> Tung-Sol 5998
> ...


 

 I heard you, I have to stop browsing head-fi, it is so evil...  I did not get as much as you do, only 4 pairs of tubes...


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard you, I have to stop browsing head-fi, it is so evil...  I did not get as much as you do, only 4 pairs of tubes...


 


 Tell me about it, lol...I stayed away from here for about a year and a half, and in the mean time started collecting vintage Gillette razors, and THAT quickly spiralled out of control as well.  Came back to this place, and immediately went off the tube deep end again.  The plus though is that I have a lifetime of awesome sounding rare tubeage to enjoy. Enjoy yours as well!


----------



## St3ve

I balanced my stock HD800 cable this evening (the temptation of having such a fine balanced amp overrode my apprehension), and I am loving what I hear. Early impressions are that the imaging has become more precise - much more in fact. I have heard very quiet little details on the stereo extremes that I have not heard before. There also seems to be more punch in the low frequencies, well recorded drums are sounding absolutely huge! 
   
  I am not sure if it the nature of the amp, or the tubes I am currently using (princess,treasures and the stock power jobs) but the mid-range is very tubey and warm. Really lovely actually, but very different to the almost-solid-state cleanliness of the WA6.
   
  I am a happy boy this evening.


----------



## flaming_june

Sounds like heaven.


----------



## 2359glenn

Hay guys I haven't posted for awhile to busy at work
  After reading the posts about the expensive 6SN7RP their is a pretty much unknown tube the 7AF7 round plate.
  It has the same specs as a 6SN7 with a little lower gain 16 vrs 20 for the 6SN7 this might make it a better candidate for the WA6.
  The 6DE7 has lower gain than a 6SN7.
  I tried these in a 22 and sounded pretty darn good maybe not as good as my 6F8Grp but I don't have a WA6 to try these in.
  If somebody that has a WA6 and would like to try the 7AF7 I will send a pair of tubes and adapters for a try and let us know how they sound.
  The 7AF7 only costs $11.10 at Antique Electronic supply and as far as I know all brands are Round plate.
  Let me know if anyone has interest.  Glenn


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hay guys I haven't posted for awhile to busy at work
> After reading the posts about the expensive 6SN7RP their is a pretty much unknown tube the 7AF7 round plate.
> It has the same specs as a 6SN7 with a little lower gain 16 vrs 20 for the 6SN7 this might make it a better candidate for the WA6.
> The 6DE7 has lower gain than a 6SN7.
> ...


 

 I'm adventurous, deal me in... PM to come.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Clayton lended me his Shuguang CV181-Zs and they arrived today.  I already want them out of my house and my own pair in my WA22.
   
  I started off with some Fleetwood Mac and nearly melted at how incredible Stevie Nicks' voice is.  I'm not a huge female vocalist fan (the music I like isn't overly-saturated with female vocal(ist)s), but she makes me a believer.  Her voice went from semi-thin and lifeless to thick and sexy.  I'm also hearing fingers plucking guitar strings.  How detailed can these get?
   
  I checked out some more female vocals and yep, lush throaty voice that would make a sailor blush... or something.
   
  Such a smooth sound with no trace of harshness; this is true tube magic.  I already have one permanent tube in my system: the 5U4G mesh.  I may have another permanent set of tubes.  I'm incredibly interested in how these will sound with my TS 7236s.
  Now if I can only track down a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs!  The trifecta will be complete and all will be right in the universe.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT
  A wise man once said, "more music!"  And he was rewarded with more music.
   
  I use this phrase pretty often, but I'm really digging this tubes.  The sound is very punchy and clear with no muddiness at all.  I'm not sensing a much larger soundstage, although instrument separation is even better compared to my 6F8Gs.  Sibilance isn't a problem with even the harshest music in my collection.  It's just a smooth and well laid-out sound all around.


----------



## flaming_june

However, is there any truth to low durability of Shuguang tubes?


----------



## Maxvla

Quote: 





takezo said:


> solid state recification offers virtually zero voltage sag compared to tube rectification so the sound will be more dynamic...
> but, you should ask jack of wooaudio if it's alright for the wa6. solid state rectifiers put full voltage immediately to the
> cathode of the output tubes without letting it warm up to put up an electron cloud. this will cause cathode stripping and
> cause premature death to the output tubes.


 

 How substantial is this difference? I ask mostly because I'm curious as I've got a Little Dot MKVI that is a balanced tube amp using solid state rectification (OTL). It uses 6080/6AS7G (4) and 6H9C (2) tubes. One of the strengths I've always enjoyed about this amp is how dynamic it is, perhaps this is why.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





takezo said:


> solid state recification offers virtually zero voltage sag compared to tube rectification so the sound will be more dynamic...
> but, you should ask jack of wooaudio if it's alright for the wa6. solid state rectifiers put full voltage immediately to the
> cathode of the output tubes without letting it warm up to put up an electron cloud. this will cause cathode stripping and
> cause premature death to the output tubes.


 

 Has anyone written to or heard from Jack about ss rectifiers in his amps?


----------



## che15

I am also interested on ss rectifier for my wa6.


----------



## che15

2359glenn said:


> Hay guys I haven't posted for awhile to busy at work
> 
> 
> After reading the posts about the expensive 6SN7RP their is a pretty much unknown tube the 7AF7 round plate.
> ...






 Hello Glenn I would love to compare the new tubes to the 6sn7 that you made adapters for.
 Thanks


----------



## AustinHorn

Hey Guys,
   
  Here is the answer I got from Jack regarding the use of the ss rectifier in my Woo6 Max:
   
  "*SS rectifier has lower internal resistant and thus output higher voltage. It could possibly damage the tubes. I have not expereienced it in real application so cannot come to a final conclusion. However, there is no need at all to use solid state rect while tube rect produce better sound*."
   
  Well, he should know.  I do know this now, if I do use it some more, I'll use it with tubes other than my $300 TS tubes.  I can afford to risk $5 or $10 tubes, but that is about it.  At least he didn't say anything about any risk to the amp itself.  I also ran this buy my neighbor who is a Proff of Electrical Engineering up at UT Austin, & also an audio buff.  He didn't feel like there was much of a risk at all to the tubes themselves & certainly none to the amp, though he agreed to me he might think twice before using NOS tubes with it, especially expensive ones. He felt newer tubes wouldn't have any problems.  He said my ss. rectifier is a new tube & just doesn't have the power to hurt modern day amps, but older tubes.... he's not so sure. But that kinda shoots my idea in the foot to use it to do all my casual listening & save the Sophia/EML for more serious sessions.  I'm going to turn one of the ss rectifiers over to my neighbor & let him take it up to school & do more testing.  I'll pass on any info he provides. Until then, if I use them at all I'll use them with a couple of JJs or some of the cheaper, NOS tubes.  Anyway, FYI.  I'll follow Jacks advice unless I learn more from the coming tests.
   
  But damn those things really sounded good with those matched TS tubes!!!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





			
				TheAudioDude said:
			
		

> I'm also hearing fingers plucking guitar strings.  How detailed can these get?


 
   
  This was the most rewarding thing about switching to the 6SN7, hearing these kinds of details.  Actually the best tube I have heard for highlight guitar strings and their associated textures/details is the Tung Sol mouse ear tube.  The almighty round plates achieve the same level of resolution, but the mouse ear seems to specifically call attention to it where guitar is concerned, making it easier to take in.  I honestly think the round plate is presenting the sound more accurately, but the mouse ear will spoil a person who loves to listen to guitar in general.
   
  Each 6SN7 tube I've tried seems to have one thing it is particularly good at.  The RCA greyglass was piano.  The mouse ear was guitars.  The Sylvania bad boy was violin (as of yet nothing has impressed me more than this instrument with this tube, I melt into my chair each time I hear it).  Then I got the TSRP which breaks the pattern by being equally good at everything.  The downside is it is kind of fun when a tube calls out a particular instrument as special, even if it is not faithful reproduction and the round plate will not do this.  I was actually kind of glad, because it means my other tubes still serve a purpose.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This was the most rewarding thing about switching to the 6SN7, hearing these kinds of details.  Actually the best tube I have heard for highlight guitar strings and their associated textures/details is the Tung Sol mouse ear tube.  The almighty round plates achieve the same level of resolution, but the mouse ear seems to specifically call attention to it where guitar is concerned, making it easier to take in.  I honestly think the round plate is presenting the sound more accurately, but the mouse ear will spoil a person who loves to listen to guitar in general.
> 
> Each 6SN7 tube I've tried seems to have one thing it is particularly good at.  The RCA greyglass was piano.  The mouse ear was guitars.  The Sylvania bad boy was violin (as of yet nothing has impressed me more than this instrument with this tube, I melt into my chair each time I hear it).  Then I got the TSRP which breaks the pattern by being equally good at everything.  The downside is it is kind of fun when a tube calls out a particular instrument as special, even if it is not faithful reproduction and the round plate will not do this.  I was actually kind of glad, because it means my other tubes still serve a purpose.


 

 Thanks to Glenn's adapters, the 6SN7 tubes yielded two surprises for me: 1) Hearing the kind of details you mentioned.  2) I couldn't believe how cool my Woo ran. With the stock 6EW7 tubes in my WA6SE, the amp ran hot and summertime didn't help. And now? With 6SN7 tubes now glowing, my Woo doesn't even get warm!


----------



## matthewh133

Sorry for the noob question. Are these the 6SN7 tubes you guys are speaking of?
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-Production-Matched-Pair-Tung-Sol-6SN7GTB-6SN7-Tubes-/350364761296?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51935dfcd0
   
  I am looking at getting a WA6 when the opportunity arises and it seems these should be great with the Sophia Princess.


----------



## SpudHarris

No, those are the new production Tung-Sol 6SN7's. The Tung-Sols we all rave about are the Black Glass/Round Plate 6SN7's. I haven't checked of late but they do crop up on e-bay but they are rare and cost a fortune. My second set were $380


----------



## matthewh133

Wow. Redonkulous! Here I was thinking the Sophia would be a pricey investment. Might have to find a cheaper pair to accompany it for starters


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





austinhorn said:


> Here is the answer I got from Jack regarding the use of the ss rectifier in my Woo6 Max:
> 
> "*SS rectifier has lower internal resistant and thus output higher voltage. It could possibly damage the tubes. I have not expereienced it in real application so cannot come to a final conclusion. However, there is no need at all to use solid state rect while tube rect produce better sound*."


 
   
  Well, I'm glad Jack said it first.  I cannot imagine why anyone would want to use a SS rectifier.  They sound TERRIBLE.  A buddy of mine replaced the 5AR4 with a solid state rectifier in this modified Dyna Stereo 70, and he was NOT happy with the result.  It sounded worse, and made the whole amp bright sounding.


----------



## hodgjy

I've rolled in several TS power triodes, and the description you mentioned fits the appearance of at least half of the TS tubes I've tried.  The rattle is just a little glue that broke off that used to hold the base to the glass.  Or, it is a small piece of glass that broke off when the base was fitted to the glass.  This is also common with tubes because of little imperfections associated with the glass blowing.  Whatever the case, it is not inside the tube, so you have nothing to worry about.  Plus, you have to figure that these tubes are OLD, and probably spent a lot of time in someone's musty and damp basement, so glue failure is common.  I have a tube or so with a loose base.  No worries at all.  Just make sure you always handle the the tube by the base, and not the glass, and all will be ok.  Your tubes won't die any sooner (or later) just because of a base glue issue.
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Guys, I just received my set of TS BGRP's from Walt (e-bay) and wandered if you could advise me.....
> 
> Tube 1 is just perfect and does look brand new. Tube 2 still looks nice (although slightly taller than tube 1) but has a terrible rattle as though there is something loose inside, also the base is ever so slightly loose
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





austinhorn said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Here is the answer I got from Jack regarding the use of the ss rectifier in my Woo6 Max:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks. It's always good to find alternatives to expensive NOS tubes. I found some ss rects for $9.95 - $14.95. I guess now I have to match them with TS tubes to hear what you're hearing.


----------



## Skylab

You can get a NOS 5U4GB for $25, or used/tested ones for under $10!  I can almost guarantee that it will sound better than any SS rectifier.


----------



## jc9394

I will never risk my Woo to put in a SS rectifier, unless Jack has tested and give us an AOK.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You can get a NOS 5U4GB for $25, or used/tested ones for under $10!  I can almost guarantee that it will sound better than any SS rectifier.


 

 Yes, you're right about inexpensive NOS 5U4GBs--some great deals can be had on TS ones too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Can someone tell by looking at Jack's photo of the WA3 internals which ss rectifier he uses. Ss rectifiers must not be all that bad if Jack uses them in WA3 amp. Then again the WA3 circuit is built around that as well, yes?


----------



## AustinHorn

Skylab, I'm sure I would have agreed with you on the sound until I tried it. I just may not have the musical ear that you have although I have no trouble decerning differences in the different tube amps & tubes I do try. I had very low expectations for it until I heard it, & even then my thinking was I could use in place of my high dollar Rectifiers when I was just working on the computer & music was just a background thing. Them I could pull out my EML/Sophia along with my TS/Treasures etc. when I sat down for some serious listening.

 So I'm not saying this thing is the be all or end all in our search for the perfect sound, but I was & am shocked at just how good it did sound with my TS tubes & later with my Treasures. Very dynamic sounding.
 Again most likely if I was able to do a quick swap out or if I had another Woo6 max sitting there & went back & forth i'd likely hear much more of a difference. But I wait 30 minutes between switches & though I notice differences, Im not hearing anything I would describe as anything other than darn good sound. I'm sure it has much more to do with either the Treasures or TS tubes, but at least to my ear the ss rectifier isn't having the negative impact I expected & had Jack not responded as he did, I did have thoughts of using as I'd said above. Now I'll wait u till my friend does his thing to determine if it will cause any problems for the amp (which Jack did not mention) or the other tubes ( which he did mention).


----------



## Skylab

And I am a big believer in system synergy, so it may well be that in the context of your overall system it does indeed sound better.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hay guys I haven't posted for awhile to busy at work
> After reading the posts about the expensive 6SN7RP their is a pretty much unknown tube the 7AF7 round plate.
> It has the same specs as a 6SN7 with a little lower gain 16 vrs 20 for the 6SN7 this might make it a better candidate for the WA6.
> The 6DE7 has lower gain than a 6SN7.
> ...


 


 Nice Glenn!
   
  I love the 7AF7.  One of the best "bang for your buck" antique tube.
   
  Can't use them in my WA2 yet, but still enjoy them nevertheless......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Rockin' a Delco one atm.....


----------



## St3ve

Quick question folks:
   
  Does anyone happen to know what the rated maximum input voltages are for the WA22 (or the other Woos for that matter). I have been setting my DAC to output 2V rms, for both balanced and unbalanced, but am not sure whether this is optimal. 
   
  I thought I would ask here, as I can't seem to find it anywhere on the Woo site and don't really want to bother Jack unless I need to.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Nice Glenn!
> 
> I love the 7AF7.  One of the best "bang for your buck" antique tube.
> 
> ...


 

 Can't use them to sub a 6DJ8 to bad.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Can't use them to sub a 6DJ8 to bad.


 


 Meh, that's not a deal breaker though...I mean, the 6DJ8 family has some of the finest audio tubes ever.  Sure, they are also sky-high as far as prices go, but there's a lot of awesomeness and variety out there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 2) I couldn't believe how cool my Woo ran. With the stock 6EW7 tubes in my WA6SE, the amp ran hot and summertime didn't help. And now? With 6SN7 tubes now glowing, my Woo doesn't even get warm!


 


  I always forget about this, but you are right.  My amp doesn't even get warm anymore either.  The 6FD7 was the worst for heat, the transformer cover would become outright hot after an hour.  A pair of those with the 5AS4G rectifier I was using at the time produced some unsettling heat levels.  The volume pot would also start to stick a bit because heat from the tubes would cause the metal on the pot shaft to expand slightly.  Now it turns silky smooth all the time.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Talk about heat, you should try a pair of 6N1P's, lol...they draw a bit more current than a 6DJ8, abd the whole amp gets hot.  I asked Jack about them, citing the current draw, and he assured me that the power supply is overbuilt and it isn't a problem.  These tubes sound good (the vintage Soviet era ones anyway), but they are not for summertime use, lol.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I always forget about this, but you are right.  My amp doesn't even get warm anymore either.  The 6FD7 was the worst for heat, the transformer cover would become outright hot after an hour.  A pair of those with the 5AS4G rectifier I was using at the time produced some unsettling heat levels.  The volume pot would also start to stick a bit because heat from the tubes would cause the metal on the pot shaft to expand slightly.  Now it turns silky smooth all the time.


 

 I feared the excessive heat would lead to a premature death of components inside or the entire amp. I try to rest my ears every few days. But sending my amp back to NY for repairs is a break I can do without.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Talk about heat, you should try a pair of 6N1P's, lol...they draw a bit more current than a 6DJ8, abd the whole amp gets hot.  I asked Jack about them, citing the current draw, and he assured me that the power supply is overbuilt and it isn't a problem.  These tubes sound good (the vintage Soviet era ones anyway), but they are not for summertime use, lol.


 

 I find Jack's view comforting... thanks!


----------



## che15

xcalibur255 said:


> I always forget about this, but you are right.  My amp doesn't even get warm anymore either.  The 6FD7 was the worst for heat, the transformer cover would become outright hot after an hour.  A pair of those with the 5AS4G rectifier I was using at the time produced some unsettling heat levels.  The volume pot would also start to stick a bit because heat from the tubes would cause the metal on the pot shaft to expand slightly.  Now it turns silky smooth all the time.





I have to say that for sure it is not the 6fd7s , but your rectifier creating all that heat. As I write this post I have been listening to my wa6 for 3 hours and without 0 exaggeration my amp feels like it is not even on . I am using EML 274B and I have to add this amp never sounded so good.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I always forget about this, but you are right.  My amp doesn't even get warm anymore either.  The 6FD7 was the worst for heat, the transformer cover would become outright hot after an hour.  A pair of those with the 5AS4G rectifier I was using at the time produced some unsettling heat levels.  The volume pot would also start to stick a bit because heat from the tubes would cause the metal on the pot shaft to expand slightly.  Now it turns silky smooth all the time.


 
  Oh my, your pot would stick. Now that is hot.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I don't have any heat issues with my WA6SE and I don't even have it on the top self. However my WA5LE is a different story, when I turn it on the lights in the neighborhood dim but still it never gets hot only a little warm.


----------



## Silent One

New tubes; audio rack for my Woo Audio 6 SE. The rack comes from my own closet: Cedar wood shoe rack. And the tubes came from someone else's closet: Raytheon 6SN7WGT - 1949. Only have 35 hours on the Rays but very happy with their sound to date. 
   
  Looming on the horizon, a potential pairing with the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I just got my WA6SE back from Woo Audio today; I had sent it in to get the modifications done in order to use 6FD7s and other tubes.  My amp was built and purchased earlier this year, before that change had been made.
   
  I connected everything, and fired up the amp, only to hear an extremely loud hum in both channels (louder in the left, though).  This is not a faint background hum as mentioned in some threads I found while searching for this problem; it's really loud, almost drowning out the audio.  I'm afraid to keep the amp on for more than a few seconds after it starts.
   
  I have a Marantz CD5003 connected via optical to a DAC Magic, and then RCA outputs to the WA6SE.  I've tried switching tubes, switching RCA interconnects, checked all my other connections, checked the power umbilical cord, etc., and the hum persists.  I've just emailed Jack explaining the problem, but I thought I'd post here, in case it's something simple I haven't thought of.  Basically, I have everything connected the same as before.  I had been using an EML 5U4G and a pair of Sylvania 6EW7s.
   
  I've also removed the bottom plates on both the amp and power supply to check if any caps are blown, or anything else looks amiss; everything seems fine on the inside.
   
  Does anyone have any suggestions for what I might try?  This is frustrating, after being without the amp for a couple of weeks, I may have to send it right back there for repair again.  Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give.


----------



## flaming_june

If you keep it on after a few seconds it disappears.  Hum can be normal up to two to five minutes after an amp is turned on.  Jack also explains it on the FAQ section on the website.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I just got my WA6SE back from Woo Audio today; I had sent it in to get the modifications done in order to use 6FD7s and other tubes.  My amp was built and purchased earlier this year, before that change had been made.
> 
> I connected everything, and fired up the amp, only to hear an extremely loud hum in both channels (louder in the left, though).  This is not a faint background hum as mentioned in some threads I found while searching for this problem; it's really loud, almost drowning out the audio.  I'm afraid to keep the amp on for more than a few seconds after it starts.
> 
> ...


 

 Disconnect all components from your amp (except headphones), then power it up. If no hum is presence, your hum is being transferred by the other electronics in your system. Allowing you to narrow your focus.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





che15 said:


> I have to say that for sure it is the 6fd7s , but your rectifier creating all that heat. As I write this post I have been listening to my wa6 for 3 hours and without 0 exaggeration my amp feels like it is not even on . I am using EML 274B and I have to add this amp never sounded so good.


 


  My EML 274B runs much cooler as well.  I think that 5AS4G might have pulled 3 amps, which would help explain the added heat, but I'm not certain of that.  The 5R4GY only pulls 2 amps and it ran warmer than the EML as well, so it would seem that whatever the drive tubes are pulling from the rectifier makes a difference in that regard too.  All I know is the whole thing runs cool now.  Heck my SS VHP2's chassis gets warmer than the Woo does now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for what I might try?  This is frustrating, after being without the amp for a couple of weeks, I may have to send it right back there for repair again.  Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give.


 

 If the hum is that loud it could be a grounding issue, or possibly a contact issue with one of the tube sockets.  A hum that is louder than the music means something is amiss for certain.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am done with the 6SN7 options for my maxxed WA6SE. All the tubes were sold and switched by to the stock 6EW7. Anyone who needs the Glenn's adapters which contact me.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Disconnect all components from your amp (except headphones), then power it up. If no hum is presence, your hum is being transferred by the other electronics in your system. Allowing you to narrow your focus.


 


  Thanks for this and the other replies; I haven't heard back from Jack yet.  I've disconnected all other gear, just connecting the power cord and the umbilical, and my headphones.  Extremely loud hum is still present.  It starts out silent when I turn on the amp's power; after about 5 seconds, the hum fades in.  There's a crackle or two, then nothing but steady hum.  Very loud, not affected by the volume control at all.  It's about 80% in the left channel, 20% in the right.  
   
  And, as suggested above, I let it go for nearly 5 minutes; no change.  Steady loud hum just continues.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Thanks for this and the other replies; I haven't heard back from Jack yet.  I've disconnected all other gear, just connecting the power cord and the umbilical, and my headphones.  Extremely loud hum is still present.  It starts out silent when I turn on the amp's power; after about 5 seconds, the hum fades in.  There's a crackle or two, then nothing but steady hum.  Very loud, not affected by the volume control at all.  It's about 80% in the left channel, 205 in the right.
> 
> And, as suggested above, I let it go for nearly 5 minutes; no change.  Steady loud hum just continues.


 

 Try rolling a different pair of tubes to see if one or both of the current tubes are shot.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I am done with the 6SN7 options for my maxxed WA6SE. All the tubes were sold and switched by to the stock 6EW7. Anyone who needs the Glenn's adapters which contact me.


 

 Would you kindly speak to your experience with 6SN7 tubes (liked/disliked)? And the purging of them? Thanks.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I am done with the 6SN7 options for my maxxed WA6SE. All the tubes were sold and switched by to the stock 6EW7. Anyone who needs the Glenn's adapters which contact me.


 


  Smart move.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

It may suits many but not too my likings after all. It was kind of weird experience with 6SN7s or VT231. I find it too much distortions with those tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> It may suits many but not too my likings after all. It was kind of weird experience with 6SN7s or VT231. I find it too much distortions with those tubes.


 


  Could you elaborate on this a bit?  I hear less distortion (none actually unless the volume is insane) with the 6SN7, not more.


----------



## sillysally

He has a WA6SE not a WA6. The WA6Se where not meant to use 6SN7's and imo even with Glenn's adapter.


----------



## wind016

Sorry that I can't read the whole thread but it's way too big. So are the stock tubes and the Sophia Princess considered the best for the WA 6SE? Are the other upgrade options worth the hassle?
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Smart move.


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


outdoorxplorer said:


> It may suits many but not too my likings after all. It was kind of weird experience with 6SN7s or VT231. I find it too much distortions with those tubes.


 
  I'm curious about this too. I use 6SN7 with Glenn's adapters and find much less distortion than 6DE7/6EW7. Could the 6SN7 be revealing distortion in the rest of your setup?
  
  Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Sorry that I can't read the whole thread but it's way too big. So are the stock tubes and the Sophia Princess considered the best for the WA 6SE? Are the other upgrade options worth the hassle?


 

 The other upgrades are really subjective. They are worth the hassle if you end up liking them more and vice-versa.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Sorry that I can't read the whole thread but it's way too big. So are the stock tubes and the Sophia Princess considered the best for the WA 6SE? Are the other upgrade options worth the hassle?


 

 Yes what you have is fine, a lot of folks like the EML 5U4G and for my tastes I also like the RCA chrome dome 6EW7's big bottles.
  If you have a WA6SE that was built in the last few months then you can use the 6SN7's but otherwise I would stick whit the 6EW7's. Seen to many problems when folks start experimenting with tubes/adapters that where not meant to be used in a amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> He has a WA6SE not a WA6. The WA6Se where not meant to use 6SN7's and imo even with Glenn's adapter.


 

 I'd be interested in hearing from other WA6SE owners who went the 6SN7 route and may have experienced distortion, weird behavior or flat out failure. We tend to benefit from information here in the forum. OutdoorXplorer's initial comments could've been more helpful. I don't mean that negatively, rather, encouraging him; others for dialogue.
   
  My own experience with 6SN7 tubes in my WA6SE is still young - 2 months now.  I have no distortion or weird behavior. Also, I have the stock version. You think the max version might be sensitive in this regard? Thanks.
   
  Post Script.: Needing reassurance, I asked Jack about my wanting to run 6SN7's/adapters. He pointed out that my amp was fine (July release) and should have no problem.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

My WA6SE was made last year and that could be the reason why I am benefiting from 6SN7 selections. Despite the the modifications made by Glenn for WA6SE, I still don't find any excitement> I am on the stock 6EW7 supplied by Jack, United Electronic with the Sophia Princess 274B.
   
  If you need the adapters, communicate with me as I have 2 pairs to go.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> My WA6SE was made last year and that could be the reason why I am benefiting from 6SN7 selections. Despite the the modifications made by Glenn for WA6SE, I still don't find any excitement> I am on the stock 6EW7 supplied by Jack, United Electronic with the Sophia Princess 274B.
> 
> If you need the adapters, communicate with me as I have 2 pairs to go.


 
  Model year - good point. You may not recall, but when I read your post about receiving the adapters, I asked you how much they cost, shipping excluded. Then promptly ordered my own. My amp was made after his update, so things are fine for now. 
   
  I received my amp with RCA 6EW7 & Sophia Princess tubes. 125 hours later and it blossomed quite nicely. I thought the 6EW7's had a nice top, mid-range and wide sound stage but lacked bottom. And this is with the Denon AH-5000's! 6SN7 tubes brought me bottom, as well as a bit more detail and depth in the middle. 
   
  I'm looking forward to trying the EML 5U4G Mesh. May stop there 'cause the less I spend, the sooner I can get a WA22 or WA5LE. I am learning to be satisfied in the mean time. May you enjoy your Woo for many moons to come!
   
  Silent 1


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> If you keep it on after a few seconds it disappears.  Hum can be normal up to two to five minutes after an amp is turned on.  Jack also explains it on the FAQ section on the website.


 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Disconnect all components from your amp (except headphones), then power it up. If no hum is presence, your hum is being transferred by the other electronics in your system. Allowing you to narrow your focus.


 
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If the hum is that loud it could be a grounding issue, or possibly a contact issue with one of the tube sockets.  A hum that is louder than the music means something is amiss for certain.


 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Try rolling a different pair of tubes to see if one or both of the current tubes are shot.


 

 Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone; I've tried everything mentioned above, and the loud hum still persists.  In addition, I've tried different power cords that I know are working, bypassed my power conditioner and tried different wall outlets, as well as rolling in several sets of tubes that I know have worked in the past.
   
  When the amp was new, I had to send it in because of a blown capacitor; I remember that when it happened, the music faded out, and a crackling sound was heard through the headphones, followed by no audio and a hum.  This is different; audio can always be heard, although the hum is much louder than the audio signal.
   
  I did get a reply from Jack, also suggesting that I remove all sources from the amp, and try different tubes.  Since the weekend is here now, I guess I will be hearing from him again on Monday, instructing me to box it up and send it back there.  This is puzzling, since it just came back from there yesterday, having been upgraded to accept 6FD7 and other tube types..  I can't imagine they would have shipped it out to me without having checked it out after doing the mods.  I guess I should have just stuck with my 6EW7s, which had always worked fine and sounded great.


----------



## avsBuddy

Does anyone know if Jack can make WA6 or WA6SE to have a pre-amp out? Would it stand up against WA2 in that function? I want to get WA2, but I have been advised that I will be limited in my selection of headphones and WA6 is a more versatile option.


----------



## ardilla

Hello to the Woo crowd!
   
  WA3, WA6 or WA2 for Beyerdynamics T1 (and HD650)?
   
  I am sensitive to above average brightness, so comments on this would be appreciated


----------



## Skylab

If you can afford it, definitely the WA2 for those headphones.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Hello to the Woo crowd!
> 
> WA3, WA6 or WA2 for Beyerdynamics T1 (and HD650)?
> 
> I am sensitive to above average brightness, so comments on this would be appreciated


 

 +1 on the WA2. if you can afford it, get it. a stock WA2 was pushing my budget to the max so i coudlnt get any  upgrades but im totally okay with that.


----------



## che15

+2 I am a WA6 owner and the T1 need a lot more power than what my amp can produce. Defenetely the W2 or if you do not mind chinese the little dot MKVI is even better , but I have only compared it to the WA6 SE. Oh no I said little dot n the woo tread , I hope I do not get banned.


----------



## Cal

What is the preamp option on the WA3 intended for? Can I hook up some powered speakers (Swan M10, Audioengine A5, M-Audio BX5a) to the WA3's preamp?
   
  Will the WA3 or WA6 compliment my dt880/600 better? What about my hd580?
   
  And if it means anything, I will be hooking whichever I get to my Maverick D1 DAC.
   
  Thanks for any insight anyone can provide!


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Yes, It can be done with a small fee.
  Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Does anyone know if Jack can make WA6 or WA6SE to have a pre-amp out?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes what you have is fine, a lot of folks like the EML 5U4G and for my tastes I also like the RCA chrome dome 6EW7's big bottles.
> If you have a WA6SE that was built in the last few months then you can use the 6SN7's but otherwise I would stick whit the 6EW7's. Seen to many problems when folks start experimenting with tubes/adapters that where not meant to be used in a amp.


 
  I think you meant to say 6FD7 there, not 6SN7.  Just trying to prevent confusion.


----------



## wind016

wait what? u think the little dot is better than the WA6SE????
 is it just cuz it's balanced? what about single ended?
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> +2 I am a WA6 owner and the T1 need a lot more power than what my amp can produce. Defenetely the W2 or if you do not mind chinese the little dot MKVI is even better , but I have only compared it to the WA6 SE. Oh no I said little dot n the woo tread , I hope I do not get banned.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think you meant to say 6FD7 there, not 6SN7.  Just trying to prevent confusion.


 

 Yes you are correct, I was also thinking about "Covenant" and the problems he had with the 6FD7's in his WA6SE.
   
  Thank You!!


----------



## dmac03

I just received glenn's adapters today, allowing me to use my pair of ts 6f8g's. I really enjoy these tubes. They give the music a presence that it didn't have before. Unfortunately, they have also added a small hum that wasn't there before. With the volume around 9:00 I don't notice it, but it starts around 10 and really picks up around 12. Is this normal? My amp was dead quite before.
   
  Even with the hum, I'd have to say these are my favorite driver tubes so far (and no, I still haven't acquired any tsrp's)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I just received glenn's adapters today, allowing me to use my pair of ts 6f8g's. I really enjoy these tubes. They give the music a presence that it didn't have before. Unfortunately, they have also added a small hum that wasn't there before. With the volume around 9:00 I don't notice it, but it starts around 10 and really picks up around 12. Is this normal? My amp was dead quite before.
> 
> Even with the hum, I'd have to say these are my favorite driver tubes so far (and no, I still haven't acquired any tsrp's)


 

 Some of my 6F8G's hum. The RCA's hum. The Raytheons do not.


----------



## jc9394

That is normal, my TS 6F8G hums too. I only notice around 10, but it picks up at 12 and constant until you turn it to max, which is dead quiet. Vet strange. This is one of the reason, I don't use it much. Did yiu tried the Trasure yet? You can get a matched pair just a little over $120.


----------



## jc9394

Anyone have a Denon D7000 and WA22? I'm picking up a pair of Denon for closed headphone and wonder the synergy and sound quality using single ended. I may re-terminate it to balanced later, is the stock canoe capitable of balance or need to re cable?


----------



## avsBuddy

jc,
  I looked at the pictures of the WA22 in your signature and noticed that you have the stepped attenuator upgrade - how do you like it? Did you compare it to the stock alps volume control. I worry whether 24 steps would be too little - does the volume knob clicks?
  What about BG caps upgrade, did you ever hear WA22 without it?


----------



## jc9394

The stepped attenuators on WA22 is standard, not an upgrade. I love it, I have it on my previous WA6 too. There is no channel imbalance at all. I heard the WA22 stock before and the BG upgrade is not a huge upgrade compare to tubes upgrade but it certainly squeezes every bit of WA22 out.

 Most notice BG upgrade is on low level listening and very smooth female vocals. Oh and slighly better soundstage, more depth.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I just received glenn's adapters today, allowing me to use my pair of ts 6f8g's. I really enjoy these tubes. They give the music a presence that it didn't have before. Unfortunately, they have also added a small hum that wasn't there before. With the volume around 9:00 I don't notice it, but it starts around 10 and really picks up around 12. Is this normal? My amp was dead quite before.
> 
> Even with the hum, I'd have to say these are my favorite driver tubes so far (and no, I still haven't acquired any tsrp's)


 

 Some of the hum can be picked up on the grid leads being radiated from the rectifier tube especially if you have a Sophia
  274 mesh this tube radiates hum like crazy. I don't know why the amp was made with the rectifier in between the two gain tubes
  This is the worst place for it.
  You can try turning the grid caps so the grid wire stays as far away from the rectifier as poss able or try a different rectifier tube.
  when you ordered the adapters did you state it was for a 22 I Make them different with the grid leads coming out opposite sides
  of the adapter so thay are away from the rectifier tube.
  Glenn


----------



## dmac03

No, I just hit the "buy now" button on ebay without any addition consideration. haha
   
  Thanks for the advice about positioning the grid wire. That makes sense since the hum is most apparent in the left channel (the grid wire from the left tube lays closest to the rectifier tube).
   
  The hum has actually died down a bit without any intervention - after about 2 hrs of continual use. I can now listen around 10 o'clock without noticing any hum, so I'm perfectly content. Nevertheless, thanks again for the advice.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> No, I just hit the "buy now" button on ebay without any addition consideration. haha
> 
> Thanks for the advice about positioning the grid wire. That makes sense since the hum is most apparent in the left channel (the grid wire from the left tube lays closest to the rectifier tube).
> 
> The hum has actually died down a bit without any intervention - after about 2 hrs of continual use. I can now listen around 10 o'clock without noticing any hum, so I'm perfectly content. Nevertheless, thanks again for the advice.


 
  If The hum continues I can make a pair that is made for the WA22 and can exchange them.
  Glenn


----------



## Cal

Just placed my order for a WA6. Can't wait!!


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet.  Welcome to the Woo family.  We're the best and coolest members of Head-Fi.

  
  Quote: 





cal said:


> Just placed my order for a WA6. Can't wait!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sweet.  Welcome to the Woo family.  We're the best and coolest members of Head-Fi.


 

 Yes we are a cool lot. Welcome, *Cal*, welcome, welcome.
  Hi, *hodgjy, *how have you been?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cal said:


> Just placed my order for a WA6. Can't wait!!


 
   
  Welcome to the club, Cal.  
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sweet.  Welcome to the Woo family.  We're the best and coolest members of Head-Fi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  And yes again, hodgjy & Clayton. If my memory is correct, we have never had an argument till now with over 400 pages and 6000 posts but helpful information and sharing our thoughts. We should be very please with the result.


----------



## Cal

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys!
   
  I'll be using the WA6 to drive the dt880/600's that I also just ordered.


----------



## Orcin

Quote: 





cal said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome, guys!
> 
> I'll be using the WA6 to drive the dt880/600's that I also just ordered.


 


 Head-Fi claims another victim.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





cal said:


> I'll be using the WA6 to drive the dt880/600's that I also just ordered.


 

 Welcome Cal.
   
  That's one of my favourite combinations 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You are sure to enjoy.


----------



## hodgjy

I've been super busy with work, so my posting count has gone down lately.  But, I promise everyone I still fire up my Woo amp and listen to quality music every week.  I need it for my sanity.  Thanks for asking and checking in.  How have things been in your neck of the woods?
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi, *hodgjy, *how have you been?


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, get ready to spend nearly as much money during tube rolling as you did on the initial amp price.  I told myself that I would use the stock tubes until they expired, and then I would experiment with rolling.  Ya, that lasted a week and the addiction began.
  
  Quote: 





orcin said:


> Head-Fi claims another victim.


----------



## Orcin

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yep, get ready to spend nearly as much money during tube rolling as you did on the initial amp price.  I told myself that I would use the stock tubes until they expired, and then I would experiment with rolling.  Ya, that lasted a week and the addiction began.


 


 I can relate. I said that I would listen to the stock tubes until I became thoroughly acquainted with their sound. That didn't last long. I purchased four rectifiers and six sets of drive tubes within the first month. I think the stock tubes ended up with about 10 hours on them. They are buried somewhere at the back of my tube drawer now... I think. I haven't seen the back of that drawer in a while.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've been super busy with work, so my posting count has gone down lately.  But, I promise everyone I still fire up my Woo amp and listen to quality music every week.  I need it for my sanity.  Thanks for asking and checking in.  How have things been in your neck of the woods?


 
  Ah, thanks for asking. My neck of the woods is doing fine except that SF never has any meets. The last one that Jack attended was in May of 2009 (I think). I certainly would like to meet other Woo-finatics.... Woo-diophiles?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yep, get ready to spend nearly as much money during tube rolling as you did on the initial amp price.  I told myself that I would use the stock tubes until they expired, and then I would experiment with rolling.  Ya, that lasted a week and the addiction began.


 
   
  Recently, my name in this space "Silent One" has become a contradiction of sorts. This addiction has sent me tumbling own the rabbit hole, where I can clearly be heard kickin' & screamin'! Each time I'm able to halt my slide, loose rocks and debris start falling from above, making any escape upward impossible! 
   
  Descending into the hole itself is fun. It's the speed I find terrifying!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, thanks for asking. My neck of the woods is doing fine except that SF never has any meets. The last one that Jack attended was in May of 2009 (I think). I certainly would like to meet other Woo-finatics.... Woo-diophiles?


 

 x2. Let's make something happen. We could always meet over food/drink and get to know each other. And bring the hardware along at an upcoming date.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, thanks for asking. My neck of the woods is doing fine except that SF never has any meets. The last one that Jack attended was in May of 2009 (I think). I certainly would like to meet other Woo-finatics.... Woo-diophiles?


 


  Heh, believe me it can get worse.  Where I live any and all meets would require a plane ticket to attend.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone have a Denon D7000 and WA22? I'm picking up a pair of Denon for closed headphone and wonder the synergy and sound quality using single ended. I may re-terminate it to balanced later, is the stock canoe capitable of balance or need to re cable?


 

 Denon is already 4-wire no re cabling necessary just re-termination from se to XLR.


----------



## hodgjy

I like it.  You better trademark that name soon!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Woo-diophiles?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Denon is already 4-wire no re cabling necessary just re-termination from se to XLR.


 

 Thanks, how does it sound out of WA22?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Heh, believe me it can get worse.  Where I live any and all meets would require a plane ticket to attend.


 

 X2


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, how does it sound out of WA22?


 

 I would probably think just fine. I have a pair with JMoney pads, balanced and sound great with my WA-6SE.
   
  If you appreciate allot of bass, then you will certainly like the sound signature. The D7000 has probably the biggest of sound stage I have heard yet from a close design.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yep, get ready to spend nearly as much money during tube rolling as you did on the initial amp price.  I told myself that I would use the stock tubes until they expired, and then I would experiment with rolling.  Ya, that lasted a week and the addiction began.


 


  LOL Oh noz.  But on the bright side our dabble in tubes might jump start the economy.
   
   
  Question:  For a WA22, does the source have to be balanced for the amp to perform at its best?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Question:  For a WA22, does the source have to be balanced for the amp to perform at its best?


 

 [size=medium]It's more important to have the headphones cabled for balanced use, but yes.​[/size]


----------



## flaming_june

It seems like a good idea yes.


----------



## Audiogalore

When truly balanced through out system setup:
   
  1) Less floor noise
   
  2) 6db gain higher


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> LOL Oh noz.  But on the bright side our dabble in tubes might jump start the economy.
> 
> 
> Question:  For a WA22, does the source have to be balanced for the amp to perform at its best?


 


 According to Jack, yes he strongly encourages a balanced source for this amp. Balanced cans may help a tad too, but SE headphones still sound great - especially if you have a balanced source. Email him and he will tell you the same exact thing.


----------



## dminches

<Tube Talk hijack>
   
  I use the Shuguang CV181-Zs the EML Mesh 5U4G combination in my Modwright Transporter and it by far the best combination I have tried.  I haven't put a pair of TS BGRPs in but I can't see it sounding much better.
   
  </Tube Talk hijack>


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> According to Jack, yes he strongly encourages a balanced source for this amp. Balanced cans may help a tad too, but SE headphones still sound great - especially if you have a balanced source. Email him and he will tell you the same exact thing.


 
  X2, this exactly what Jack told me and have me wait until I get my balanced source before buying the WA22 since I have WA6.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> <Tube Talk hijack>
> 
> I use the Shuguang CV181-Zs the EML Mesh 5U4G combination in my Modwright Transporter and it by far the best combination I have tried.  I haven't put a pair of TS BGRPs in but I can't see it sounding much better.
> 
> </Tube Talk hijack>


 

 Yes, it can.  I was using the same combo you are using now and thought exactly the same but until I roll in the TS BGRP.  What amp you are using?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, it can.  I was using the same combo you are using now and thought exactly the same but until I roll in the TS BGRP.  What amp you are using?


 

 I use a Channel Islands audio VHP-2 but that is only with my computer set up.  I am still old school and listen mostly to speakers unless I am on the road.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But I am interested in the Woo amps which is why I have been hanging out here.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> I would probably think just fine. I have a pair with JMoney pads, balanced and sound great with my WA-6SE.
> 
> If you appreciate allot of bass, then you will certainly like the sound signature. The D7000 has probably the biggest of sound stage I have heard yet from a close design.


 

 Great to heard, the D7000 is on its way to me.  Hopefully it gets here before my trip so I can play with it.  J$ pads will be order once I confirmed that I like the sound signature.  I had the W5000 and DX1000 before and hope this one is a keeper.


----------



## flaming_june

Now I really wish I got the 5U4G instead of the 274b eml.  Everyone seem to like that much more.
   
   Quote:
   


jc9394 said:


> X2, this exactly what Jack told me and have me wait until I get my balanced source before buying the WA22 since I have WA6.


 

 exact reason why I just purchased a ref5 dac.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I use a Channel Islands audio VHP-2 but that is only with my computer set up.  I am still old school and listen mostly to speakers unless I am on the road.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I moved from the VHP-2 myself.  At first it seemed like more of a lateral move at best.  The VHP-2 is actually superior in a number of ways, primarily PRaT, speed and detail but the Woo's much more musical midrange made up for most of it.  After spending a small fortune on tube rolling, however, the WA6 beats the VHP-2 in every conceivable way now.  In some ways by a very large margin, except for speed where I suppose SS will always have the advantage.  It's the combination of detail and the fluid, organic presentation that really makes the Woo worth it.  If I had chosen to stick with stock tubes, however, I would have been much better off just getting a pair of headphones that better suited the VHP-2 I sometimes think.  I often wonder why I'm so stubborn about sticking with the K701 actually.......


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, this exactly what Jack told me and have me wait until I get my balanced source before buying the WA22 since I have WA6.





 In my defense, all I can say is that my experience is a bit different. I am using two balanced sources in my modified WA22, and I can hear a huge difference between balanced and SE using the same headphone and cable, with a matching SE adapter.


----------



## hodgjy

There's no doubt about it that balanced does give a lower noise floor.  Depending or not if your equipment is sensitive enough to pickup the difference or broadcast a difference is the key.  Your equipment is obviously sensitive enough to make the noise floor reduction audible.  Others mileage may vary.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> In my defense, all I can say is that my experience is a bit different. I am using two balanced sources in my modified WA22, and I can hear a huge difference between balanced and SE using the same headphone and cable, with a matching SE adapter.


----------



## dmac03

I presume you have your ref5 paired with a wa22? If so, what do you think of this combo?
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Now I really wish I got the 5U4G instead of the 274b eml.  Everyone seem to like that much more.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> exact reason why I just purchased a ref5 dac.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Now I really wish I got the 5U4G instead of the 274b eml.  Everyone seem to like that much more.


 

 I'm not sure about that. I have the 5U4G EML and am loving it but have never heard a 274B EML. Who knows, that one might give the 5U4G a run for its money. Us Woozies will audition anything... well almost anything.
   
  I'm feeling a bit Woozie right now. Time to roll a rectifier again!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Now I really wish I got the 5U4G instead of the 274b eml.  Everyone seem to like that much more.


 


  I don't imagine the difference is all that great.  The 5U4G is repeatedly described as being "faster" than the 274B but this quality can be hard to quantify.  I went with the 274B because it is easier on the WA6 transformer.  The 5U4G pulls 3.0A which the amp can technically handle but is at the maximum limit of the transformer.  I didn't want to shorten the lifespan of any components.  I assume this concern is not valid with the WA22 and WA5 because its rectifier socket specifies a 5U4G tube in the first place.


----------



## dmac03

These tubes look distinctively different from other gec 6as7g's that I have been trying to acquire. Are these worthwhile or not? Anyone have advice?


----------



## lessblue

Make room everybody, new Woo Audio 6 owner entering the fold! Haven't received it yet but it's on it's way.
   
  Will be using it for my HD650 (newer version) and my SR225i.
   
  Looking forward to listening with the WA6


----------



## avsBuddy

Anyone here compared the latest WA2 against the WA6SE? I'm planning on using Sen HD600 as my main phones. Maybe buy Denon D7000 or D5000 for the times when I need privacy - so I don't necessary need Denon to perform to the absolute maximum potential. Jack told me that with the right power tubes, WA2 can drive Denon just right. I'm looking for a romantic sound for the times when I want to relax with the headphones - my main speaker system is my main listening source and will probably remain. 
   
  But the question is:
  Would I needlessly sacrifice WA6SE power advantage over the W2 for the off chance I use W2 as preamp down the road?
  I'm sure I'm not the first to have this dilemma.
   
  By the way, I'm already decided on getting attenuator upgrade - since I hear great things about how it brings precise balance and introduces minimum electronics into the chain. You guys just sucking me in - _when I started_, all I wanted was a dedicated cheap head amp for my beloved Sennheisers.


----------



## Maxvla

If you wanted a cheap dedicated head amp you could have just gotten an Asgard and called it a day.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> These tubes look distinctively different from other gec 6as7g's that I have been trying to acquire. Are these worthwhile or not? Anyone have advice?


 



  
  These are 6080, not the 6AS7G I got.
   

   
  The 6080 is on the top of 6AS7G to give you the size comparison.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Now I really wish I got the 5U4G instead of the 274b eml.  Everyone seem to like that much more.


 
   
  The difference between the EMLs are not that big.  Going from Sophia to EML 274B is a jump.


  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm not sure about that. I have the 5U4G EML and am loving it but have never heard a 274B EML. Who knows, that one might give the 5U4G a run for its money. Us Woozies will audition anything... well almost anything.
> 
> I'm feeling a bit Woozie right now. Time to roll a rectifier again!


 


 Yes, we are all crazy Woozies.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I don't imagine the difference is all that great.  The 5U4G is repeatedly described as being "faster" than the 274B but this quality can be hard to quantify.  I went with the 274B because it is easier on the WA6 transformer.  The 5U4G pulls 3.0A which the amp can technically handle but is at the maximum limit of the transformer.  I didn't want to shorten the lifespan of any components.  I assume this concern is not valid with the WA22 and WA5 because its rectifier socket specifies a 5U4G tube in the first place.


 

 Exactly, the difference is the speed and depth in soundstage but it is subtle.  I do prefer the EML 274B once a while, I thing the 274B more romantic sound.


----------



## Cal

Whooo! (no pun intended)
   
  WA6 shipped today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Should be here next week! Can't wait to pair it with my dt880/600 and dt990/600!


----------



## hodgjy

If my Woo 3 is any indication, the Woo sound paired with the DT900/600 is sonic nirvana.
  
  Quote: 





cal said:


> Whooo! (no pun intended)
> 
> WA6 shipped today.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

How about, Woofomaniacs?
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I like it.  You better trademark that name soon!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I posted a few pages ago about problems with my WA6SE.  I sent it back to Woo Audio a few weeks ago to get the modifications done that would enable it to use more types of tubes (6FD7s, etc.) since mine was purchased earlier this year, before those mods became standard.
   
  When I got the amp back, I hooked it up, and immediately noticed an extremely loud hum coming through the headphones.  I emailed Jack, and also posted here about the problem.  I got quite a few responses in this thread, and I tried all suggestions; Jack also replied, telling me to disconnect all sources, etc., from the amp, to see if the hum persisted.  I switched power tubes, rectifier tubes, power cords, RCA cords, wall outlets, disconnected sources, and still the hum was there.
   
  I finally sent it back to Woo Audio a week ago, thinking that it was strange that they would do the modifications and then send it out without testing it to see if it worked.  Jack asked me to send a pair of tubes along with it this time.  He said they had tested the amp after doing the mods, and it was fine when they sent it out.
   
  The amp arrived there yesterday, and I just got an email from him today; he said that they checked the amp out and there was *no hum!*  He also said that one of the tubes I sent was found to be bad (these were a pair of 6DR7s that I had just purchased from Woo Audio when the modifications were done).  Jack said he would replace both of those tubes with another pair, and would run the amp for awhile to see if there were any problems.
   
  My question is, why was I getting the hum, and they are not?  I tried many pairs of tubes, and different rectifiers, some of which I know worked fine; the hum was always present and always the same no matter what I did.  
   
  The only thing I can think of is, was I connecting the umbilical cord between the power supply and the amp incorrectly?  I did it the way I had done it previously, and it seemed to be a secure connection; I lined up the pins and holes on each end, and rotated the collars until they clicked and locked into place.  I can't think of any other reason for getting this hum.  
   
  I should be getting the amp back in a few days, and I'm just wondering what else I can try if the hum is still there.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Could the headphones be the culprit, perhaps? Nah, not the headphones. Try checking them out anyway. Just another part of the equation to eliminate I suppose.


----------



## Xcalibur255

When you say loud, if it is the kind of loud I am thinking of it would be the same electrical hum I heard when I had a contact problem with my tube pins.  It might not be the tubes, but one of the sockets the tubes are being put in.  If a pin is failing to make contact this would explain your hum.  Perhaps one of the socket pins was stuck and finally dislodged while it was shipping back to Jack?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Could the headphones be the culprit, perhaps? Nah, not the headphones. Try checking them out anyway. Just another part of the equation to eliminate I suppose.


 
  Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> When you say loud, if it is the kind of loud I am thinking of it would be the same electrical hum I heard when I had a contact problem with my tube pins.  It might not be the tubes, but one of the sockets the tubes are being put in.  If a pin is failing to make contact this would explain your hum.  Perhaps one of the socket pins was stuck and finally dislodged while it was shipping back to Jack?


 
  Thanks for the replies; I'm sure the headphones are fine; I tried two different pair, and still got the hum. My HD-800s also work fine from my Marantz CD player's headphone output.
   
  As far as the tube socket goes, that sounds like a possibility; Jack said there was a bad tube, but other than that, he's not hearing any hum. By the way, this hum I was hearing was independent of the volume control; it was equally loud at minimum and maximum positions.   I guess I'll just have to wait until I get it back to try it out.
   
  During the last month, this amp has certainly been on the road more than it's been in my house.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> During the last month, this amp has certainly been on the road more than it's been in my house.


 
   
  Here we come again on a Saturday night
  With your fussin’ and your fightin’ won’t you get me to the rhyme
  I wanna move
  Playin’ in a travelin’ band
  Yeah!
  Well, I’m flyin’ ‘cross the land, tryin’ to get a hand
  Plain’ in a travelin’ band


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> By the way, this hum I was hearing was independent of the volume control; it was equally loud at minimum and maximum positions.   I guess I'll just have to wait until I get it back to try it out.


 

 That makes it even more likely it was a socket pin contact problem.  A grounding issue wouldn't produce a hum this loud, but it sounds exactly like the hum I got when I was having adapter issues.  Loud, but not deafening and independent of volume.
   
  Is it in both channels?  Because that makes my theory much less likely than.  The odds of having issues with both sockets are extremely low.  It would have to be an internal electrical issue if it is in both channels.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

The hum seemed to be about 80% in the left channel, 20% in the right.  Reversing tubes did not reverse where the hum was coming from.  Always mostly on the left side.
   
  I wonder if this is something Woo Audio would check, since they heard no hum when they first checked the amp.


----------



## mikemalter

How about Woopersonic?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> The hum seemed to be about 80% in the left channel, 20% in the right.  Reversing tubes did not reverse where the hum was coming from.  Always mostly on the left side.
> 
> I wonder if this is something Woo Audio would check, since they heard no hum when they first checked the amp.


 


  I'm absolutely no expert on these amps, but I believe my theory is credible based on what you've said.  It might be a good idea to pass this along to Jack and see what he thinks.  At the very least he will be aware of your concern over the contact condition of the socket pins.
   
  There is one final possibility too:  the sockets may just need to be cleaned.  If a large chunk of oxidation or residue came off a tube pin and is stuck inside the socket it might be the source of the bad electrical contact.


----------



## flaming_june

That is a very good point.  Cleaning sometimes definitely help.
   
  "Remove the source from the amp if it is connected. You should try a different outlet, and tubes as well.
   
[size=11pt]Thanks,
 Jack"[/size]
   
  LOL "sometimes definitely", it always work sometimes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> How about Woopersonic?


 

 Good one. And the parts-upgrade modded version should be a Super-duper Woopersonic.


----------



## mikemalter

Ok, that's a Woosenberg, or a Woosey!

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good one. And the parts-upgrade modded version should be a Super-duper Woopersonic.


----------



## K_19

This is interesting because I've had to deal with some humming problem with my WA6SE as well, although humming on my unit has been low enough for it to be not noticeable at all when the music is on, so I haven't complained too much about it.  Like RJM, the humming is about a 80/20 split between left/right and independent of volume control (although again, it's a light hum nowhere as bad as what RJM is experiencing).  Also, I've found that moving the amp unit slightly or tapping the amp lightly with my fingers around the driver sockets sometimes fix the humming completely.  So I'm guessing this is either a grounding issue or a pin problem?
   
  I'd like to attempt to clean out the sockets, but have no idea how to approach it.  How should I go about cleaning it?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Why don't we call ourselves the WooDudes?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  About the hum... I had a noticeable hum (mainly in the left channel) when I got my WA22.  I e-mailed Jack and he had me send it back to him; he ended up adding some extra shielding to the transformer, and when I got it back it was reduced by quite a bit.  He said he tested the amp after fixing it to confirm that the hum was lowered.
   
  I'd also recommend cleaning the tube pins and maybe re-seating them a few times.  Just this weekend I noticed a large channel imbalance; the right was louder than the left.  I took out my power and driver tubes and re-seated them, and the sound was perfectly centered!  Tube amps can be a bit finicky...


----------



## mikemalter

How long ago did you get your WA22?
   
  I've been reading threads here about microphonics and hum issues, neither of which I have experienced, and I am wondering if maybe the later builds are a little different.  My unit was shipped on 5/11/2010 so it was probably built around the early part of May.
   
  Quote:


theaudiodude said:


> Why don't we call ourselves the WooDudes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> How long ago did you get your WA22?
> 
> I've been reading threads here about microphonics and hum issues, neither of which I have experienced, and I am wondering if maybe the later builds are a little different.  My unit was shipped on 5/11/2010 so it was probably built around the early part of May.
> 
> Quote:


 

  
  I have no clue, but I'd say I received my WA22 in late-October to early-November of 2009.  I sent it back and got it again around December.
   
  Tube amps generally hum by nature, although microphonics (in my experiences) are caused by the tubes themselves.  I have a pair of tubes which pick up any vibration whatsoever (such as a fly farting from a mile away), but all of my other tubes are fine.  I can tap on the chassis and not hear a thing when I'm using good tubes.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


k_19 said:


> This is interesting because I've had to deal with some humming problem with my WA6SE as well, although humming on my unit has been low enough for it to be not noticeable at all when the music is on, so I haven't complained too much about it.  Like RJM, the humming is about a 80/20 split between left/right and independent of volume control (although again, it's a light hum nowhere as bad as what RJM is experiencing).  Also, I've found that moving the amp unit slightly or tapping the amp lightly with my fingers around the driver sockets sometimes fix the humming completely.  So I'm guessing this is either a grounding issue or a pin problem?
> 
> I'd like to attempt to clean out the sockets, but have no idea how to approach it.  How should I go about cleaning it?


 

 The hum on mine was really loud, almost completely drowning out any audio.  I was going to email Jack asking if they checked the tube sockets, etc., but I just got a return tracking number, so it looks like they shipped it out this morning; I should have it back here probably on Thursday.  Jack said they would be running it awhile, and checking on it, so it must have left there with their stamp of approval.
   
  Up until I got it back after the mods were done, it had been dead quiet, and sounding fantastic.


----------



## jc9394

I guess I'm pretty lucky, mines is dead quiet with all the tubes I have except the 6f8g, it maybe the cable is too close the EML.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, tube amps are funny that way.  The Woo amps I own (WA6 and WA2) are among the quietest, most hum free I've ever had.


----------



## Orcin

How about Wooters?


----------



## avsBuddy

Quote:


skylab said:


> Yeah, tube amps are funny that way.  The Woo amps I own (WA6 and WA2) are among the quietest, most hum free I've ever had.


 
  Hey Skylab, I didn't realize you had both WA6 and WA2. Could you in few words summarize the difference in sound between these two? As I said in another thread, I'm contemplating getting a WA2 for Senn, but worry that it wouldn't be enough to drive Denon. I want to get closed cup headphones, and Denon 5000/7000 seem to be the best choice for bang for the buck.


----------



## Skylab

WA2 isn't the right choice for a low-impedance dynamic-driver headphone like the Denon.


----------



## mikemalter

There you go!

  
  Quote: 





orcin said:


> How about Wooters?


----------



## avsBuddy

Quote:


skylab said:


> WA2 isn't the right choice for a low-impedance dynamic-driver headphone like the Denon.


 
  I see, Jack told me that with the upgraded driver tubes that he offers I should be able to drive Denons with no problem, but I see your point.
  However, with the high impedance headphones like Senn 600 would WA2 give better quality than WA6 (SE)? If not, where do you see the benefit in WA2.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Quote:
> I see, Jack told me that with the upgraded driver tubes that he offers I should be able to drive Denons with no problem, but I see your point.
> However, with the high impedance headphones like Senn 600 would WA2 give better quality than WA6 (SE)? If not, where do you see the benefit in WA2.


 

 I much prefer the WA2 with high impedance cans like the Beyer T1 (I don't have any Senns).  I also prefer the WA2 with the planar headphones I have.  The issue with the WA2 and low-impedance dynamic-driver cans like Denons is the issue of the impedance mistmatch causing a poor damping factor.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, tube amps are funny that way.  The Woo amps I own (WA6 and WA2) are among the quietest, most hum free I've ever had.


 


 My old WA6 was so deathly silent that if blind tested, I wouldn't have been able to guess that it was a pure tube amp at all (except on the start up where WA6 buzzes for about 5 seconds; I hear WA6 and WA6SE differ in their start mechanism... not sure if this would account for humming issue at all).


----------



## dmac03

Its been about a solid month now that I've had my wa22 with my ps1000 headphones. I would like to think that there are over 30 hrs of break-in so far.
   
  I've been loving them to death, but my only complaint is that the bass is too much and somewhat muddy. I think this may be a flaw of the headphones, but I'm hoping that I can offset it with tubes or components.
   
  My tubes are as follows (the first ones listed are what I'm currently utilizing):
  Power: sylvania 7236, GE 6080
  Driver: ts 6f8g, ken-rad 6sn7gt, sylvania 6sn7wgt, sylvania 6sn7gtb, rca 6sn7gtb, ge s6n7gtb
  Rectifier: GE 5u4g (I ordered the eml but the stupid tube is on mfr bo)
   
  Are there any recommendations for tube upgrade that would tighten up the bass considerably while still sounding great?


----------



## mikemalter

Phones: HD800 with balanced connections using the Cardas cord.
 Power: RCA 6080 (Did have Sylvania 7236 but took it out as it was too powerful)
  Driver: Shuquang Treasures
  Rectifier: Sophia Princess
   
  I also have a balanced input.
   
  My bass is very tight, to what I like, the sound is very well balanced.  I also use low impedence switching.  I really did not like the 7236 and maybe that is what the issue is.  Have you tried an RCA 6080?  That was the stock tube.  The others were upgrades I got from Jack.
   
  Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Its been about a solid month now that I've had my wa22 with my ps1000 headphones. I would like to think that there are over 30 hrs of break-in so far.
> 
> I've been loving them to death, but my only complaint is that the bass is too much and somewhat muddy. I think this may be a flaw of the headphones, but I'm hoping that I can offset it with tubes or components.
> 
> ...


----------



## dmac03

Maybe it can be resolved by rolling in another power tube. Thanks for the advice. My stock driver tubes were a pair GE 6080's. Unfortunately, one of the tubes started going bad causing a constant crackling noise in the respective channel. I'll have to be on the look out for a new set of them
   
  Speaking of power tubes, after skylab and jc's recommendations for the gec 6as7g I attempted acquiring a pair from ebay. I was working all day as the auction ended, but my max bid was locked in for $250. I couldn't wait to check the auction status when I got home. To my disappointment I didn't come close to winning them as they sold for just shy of $400. That is a tad more than I want to spend right now, so I've now got my eye on a pair of gec 6080's. What is a realistic price range that I should expect to pay for a pair?


----------



## Skylab

A pair of GEC 6AS7G's just sold for $400?????  Good grief.


----------



## mikemalter

Well, The GE's go for about $25.00 a pair, if I remember correctly.  It was Hodgjy who told me, so check with him.
   
  I'm also waiting on an EML from Jack.  They were supposed to be in two weeks ago and the last I heard from him was they they were on the way via DHL, but hadn't arrived yet.
  
  Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Maybe it can be resolved by rolling in another power tube. Thanks for the advice. My stock driver tubes were a pair GE 6080's. Unfortunately, one of the tubes started going bad causing a constant crackling noise in the respective channel. I'll have to be on the look out for a new set of them
> 
> Speaking of power tubes, after skylab and jc's recommendations for the gec 6as7g I attempted acquiring a pair from ebay. I was working all day as the auction ended, but my max bid was locked in for $250. I couldn't wait to check the auction status when I got home. To my disappointment I didn't come close to winning them as they sold for just shy of $400. That is a tad more than I want to spend right now, so I've now got my eye on a pair of gec 6080's. What is a realistic price range that I should expect to pay for a pair?


----------



## jc9394

dmac03, I will pm you my source on the gec6080 later tonight, stuck on a plane now. It is $125 shipped, it had original box NOS. Wow, that GEC 6AS7G sold way more than I paid for mine.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Maybe it can be resolved by rolling in another power tube. Thanks for the advice. My stock driver tubes were a pair GE 6080's. Unfortunately, one of the tubes started going bad causing a constant crackling noise in the respective channel. I'll have to be on the look out for a new set of them
> 
> Speaking of power tubes, after skylab and jc's recommendations for the gec 6as7g I attempted acquiring a pair from ebay. I was working all day as the auction ended, but my max bid was locked in for $250. I couldn't wait to check the auction status when I got home. To my disappointment I didn't come close to winning them as they sold for just shy of $400. That is a tad more than I want to spend right now, so I've now got my eye on a pair of gec 6080's. What is a realistic price range that I should expect to pay for a pair?


 


  I, too, was bidding on that pair of GEC 6AS7Gs!  My max bid was a bit higher, but alas they slipped away.
   
  I'm dying to get a pair of them but I guess I'll just have to wait a little longer.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I did manage to snag a pair of the GEC 6080s for $70.  They were slightly used, but came in the original boxes.  They're my favorite power tubes so far.


----------



## avsBuddy

Holy expensive tubes Batman! Look like supply and demand rule kicked in a high gear. I hope you guys are right when you say there will be plenty of tubes for the future, otherwise all these high end tube equipment will make for an expensive static display.


----------



## Skylab

For the price of that pair of GEC 6AS7's, you can buy a carton of 48 of the Russian equivalent. I'm here to tell you there are mountains of those. There is no need to worry, but if you really are, buy a dozen for $75 and stash them.


----------



## avsBuddy

Thanks Skylab. You provide an invaluable information regarding Woo amps and tube amps in general. I know Woo was supposed to come up with a list of compatible tubes, but do you have a list from a top of you head of compatible types for WA6 and WA2?


----------



## Skylab

There are some much more complete lists in these pages, but just for starters:

 WA6 - rectifier 5U4G/5U4GB/5931/5AR4/GZ34; driver 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7

 WA2 - rectifier EZ80/6V4; driver 6DJ8/ECC88/6922/E88CC/CV2492/CV2493; power 6AS7G/6080/5998/7236/2399/6520/421A


----------



## hodgjy

A pair of RCA 6AS7G runs about $25-30.  GE's are about the same price, and some argue that they are rebrands of the RCA.  Can't confirm that.  The cheapest power tube in the family is the RCA 6080, which runs about $16 a pair.  It's not a very inspiring tube, but at that price, it's worth a gamble because some people really like it.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, The GE's go for about $25.00 a pair, if I remember correctly.  It was Hodgjy who told me, so check with him.


----------



## hodgjy

It's also my understanding that there are mountains of RCA 6AS7G tubes, and they are actually nice tubes and are cheap to boot.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> For the price of that pair of GEC 6AS7's, you can buy a carton of 48 of the Russian equivalent. I'm here to tell you there are mountains of those. There is no need to worry, but if you really are, buy a dozen for $75 and stash them.


----------



## hodgjy

Add 6H13C and 6N13C to the list of power tubes.  Also, supposedly, the 7DJ8 driver tube is also compatible if it runs at 6.3v, and not the 7.0 volts like some varieties do.  Check specs before rolling.
   
  Others more daring have rolled in the 6N1 in the 6DJ8 slot, although this is NOT a direct replacement.  Same for the 6H23N-EB tubes. 
   
  When in doubt, check with Jack Wu.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> There are some much more complete lists in these pages, but just for starters:
> 
> 
> WA2 - rectifier EZ80/6V4; driver 6DJ8/ECC88/6922/E88CC/CV2492/CV2493; power 6AS7G/6080/5998/7236/2399/6520/421A


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I much prefer the WA2 with high impedance cans like the Beyer T1 (I don't have any Senns).  I also prefer the WA2 with the planar headphones I have.  The issue with the WA2 and low-impedance dynamic-driver cans like Denons is the issue of the impedance mistmatch causing a poor damping factor.


 


  You like the LCD-2 (I'm assuming this is what you were referring to when you said planar) better on your WA2 Skylab?  That's a bit of a surprise considering their 50ohm impedance.  I actually switched my savings goal from a T1 to the LCD-2 based on your mentioning that the WA6 is able to drive the latter competently but not the former.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I've been loving them to death, but my only complaint is that the bass is too much and somewhat muddy. I think this may be a flaw of the headphones, but I'm hoping that I can offset it with tubes or components.
> 
> Rectifier: GE 5u4g (I ordered the eml but the stupid tube is on mfr bo)


 

 I think you may find what you are looking for when you receive your EML.  They make a big difference in bass quality.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> dmac03, I will pm you my source on the gec6080 later tonight, stuck on a plane now. It is $125 shipped, it had original box NOS. Wow, that GEC 6AS7G sold way more than I paid for mine.


 
   
  JC, thanks much. Even though the 6080 may not be quite up to snuff compared to your 6as7g, I feel like it would be a great addition to my small tube collection.


----------



## Skylab

hodgjy said:


> Also, supposedly, the 7DJ8 driver tube is also compatible if it runs at 6.3v, and not the 7.0 volts like some varieties do.  Check specs before rolling.






 The 7DJ8 is always 7 volts. That's what the 7 means 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But in many amps it will work fine in place of a 6DJ8, as the 7DJ8 will function fine when fed 6.3 V.



 >



xcalibur255 said:


> You like the LCD-2 (I'm assuming this is what you were referring to when you said planar) better on your WA2 Skylab?  That's a bit of a surprise considering their 50ohm impedance.  I actually switched my savings goal from a T1 to the LCD-2 based on your mentioning that the WA6 is able to drive the latter competently but not the former.






 The WA2 sounds excellent with the LCD2 since it has more than enough power for it, and, since I have learned, planars are not impacted by the damping factor issues that low impedance dynamic driver headphones would have due to the impedance mismatch.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> JC, thanks much. Even though the 6080 may not be quite up to snuff compared to your 6as7g, I feel like it would be a great addition to my small tube collection.


 

 you will be surprise how good it is, if I don't have the GEC 6AS7G it is easily my flavor power tubes.  I did get another pair of GEC 6080 but still unable to track down the GEC 6AS7G.  The bass tighten up compare to the stock power tube but the most significant change on the tubes rolling is the rectifier, you should wait until you get your EML 5U4G first.  Both driver and power tubes are improvement but it is subtle but noticeable.  The combo I'm using GEC 6AS7G/GEC 6080, Treasures/TS BGRP, and EML 5U4G/274B is not boomy with my HD800, D7000, or HF-2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The WA2 sounds excellent with the LCD2 since it has more than enough power for it, and, since I have learned, planars are not impacted by the damping factor issues that low impedance dynamic driver headphones would have due to the impedance mismatch.


 


 Where is my LCD-2, [size=small]Audez'e[/size]??? I hope my WA22 drives it fine...
   
  Rob, how far you are from Millennium Park?  If you are close, do you  mind if I try out your LCD-2?


----------



## Skylab

jc9394 said:


> Where is my LCD-2, [size=small]Audez'e[/size]??? I hope my WA22 drives it fine...
> 
> Rob, how far you are from Millennium Park?  If you are close, do you  mind if I try out your LCD-2?




 About 25-30 minutes drive. PM me if you want to come by.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> About 25-30 minutes drive. PM me if you want to come by.


 

  
  Too bad, I don't have a car this time.  I will PM you next time I visit Chicago.  Thanks for the offer, you will heard from me soon.  This is the third time I visit Chicago this month, I should just get an corporate apartment...


----------



## hodgjy

You know, that's what I thought.  But I got into a little debate with someone in another thread (not as cool as it is here on the Woo thread) where he tried to convince me there were two varieties of the 7DJ8--the 6.3 v and the 7 v.  So, since then I just assumed there were two flavors depending on manufacturers cheating/bending the specs.  But, it's good to know that I'm not really crazy and I had it right the first time.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The 7DJ8 is always 7 volts. That's what the 7 means
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If my Woo 3 is any indication, the Woo sound paired with the DT900/600 is sonic nirvana.


 
  hodgjy~
   
  How would you describe the higher impedance can with your Woo? I'm thinking about adding another option to the line up for mood changes... say, an open or semi-open headphone with higher impedance.


----------



## hodgjy

I know this apples to oranges, but my first cans on my Woo 3 were the DT880 250 ohm.  When upgrading to the DT990 600 ohm, the change was immediately obvious.  The treble was sweeter, the highs were more controlled and less fatiguing, the noise floor was lower, and the bass was deeper and more controlled.  The Woo OTL amps (2 and 3) definitely sing with higher impedance cans.  All in all, I just found the 600 ohm cans to have better synergy.  To use very basic descriptors, they just sounded more musical, yet more alive.  The sound was fuller, but yet had more controlled energy and sweetness.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> hodgjy~
> 
> How would you describe the higher impedance can with your Woo? I'm thinking about adding another option to the line up for mood changes... say, an open or semi-open with higher impedance headphone.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good one. And the parts-upgrade modded version should be a Super-duper Woopersonic.


 

 Because 'Woo' owners are a zealous bunch, I like the name 'Woozies.' Definitely Hollywood! Think "Crazy 88's"; "Baseball Fury's" and so on...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I know this apples to oranges, but my first cans on my Woo 3 were the DT880 250 ohm.  When upgrading to the DT990 600 ohm, the change was immediately obvious.  The treble was sweeter, the highs were more controlled and less fatiguing, the noise floor was lower, and the bass was deeper and more controlled.  The Woo OTL amps (2 and 3) definitely sing with higher impedance cans.  All in all, I just found the 600 ohm cans to have better synergy.  To use very basic descriptors, they just sounded more musical, yet more alive.  The sound was fuller, but yet had more controlled energy and sweetness.


 
   
  Very helpful. I like what I'm hearing. A lower noise floor sounds appealing...


----------



## Badd99

Hey guys, I right now have very basic DAC that is nothing at all special and only cost like 80 bucks that runs to a CTH hybrid amp that runs my semi-vintage Grado RS-1's. Im upgrading my DAC to a Cambridge dacmagic next week and am looking to sell my CTH now and get a WA6 used here. 
   
  Can anyone help me imagine or picture a sound upgrade this will cause with the new DAC (a real dac source) and a better amp? I love the sound of Grado's so my RS-1's will probably be some of or if not my favorite headphone for some time (till I can go stax and woo audio combo)
   
  Also, anyone know of any cheaper upgrade tubes I can get that will synergize even better than the stock tubes on the WA6 with RS-1's?


----------



## flaming_june

I liked it when I was on it.  Just a little too artificial and musical though


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> I liked it when I was on it.  Just a little too artificial and musical though


 

 Don't know why, I thought the DacMagic would be bigger. That form has me interested but wondered if you guys can help me out?
   
  At present I feed my RWA Imod from the dock on the bottom of the Imod straight to my WA6. What is coming out of my Imod? Digital or Analogue? I guess what I'm asking is would I benefit from feeding my Imod to a DacMagic first?
   
  I feel a bit dense asking this since I've been around so long but I've been blissfully ignorant I guess.......


----------



## grokit

Your iMod doesn't have digital out, just "improved" analog line out. So there is no need to or benefit from feeding it to a DAC.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You know, that's what I thought.  But I got into a little debate with someone in another thread (not as cool as it is here on the Woo thread) where he tried to convince me there were two varieties of the 7DJ8--the 6.3 v and the 7 v.  So, since then I just assumed there were two flavors depending on manufacturers cheating/bending the specs.  But, it's good to know that I'm not really crazy and I had it right the first time.


 


  Yeah, you were right the first time.  The first digit in the US tube numbering/lettering scheme indicates the voltage.  The 7DJ8 and 6DJ8 are identical except for the voltage - 7 volts for the 7DJ8, 6.3V for the 6DJ8.  There would be zero reason to consider the 7DJ8 other than that NOS 6DJ8's have gotten very expensive, and some 7DJ8's can be had for much less.  But aside from the issue of price, it would always be better to use the 6DJ8 (unless the amp was actually DESIGNED for the 7DJ8, in which case using a 6DJ8 would yield a VERY short tube life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I much prefer the WA2 with high impedance cans like the Beyer T1 (I don't have any Senns).  I also prefer the WA2 with the planar headphones I have.  The issue with the WA2 and low-impedance dynamic-driver cans like Denons is the issue of the impedance mistmatch causing a poor damping factor.


 

 Very interesting.
  Have you posted your listening impressions (WA2 + LCD2) somewhere Skylab?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Very interesting.
> Have you posted your listening impressions (WA2 + LCD2) somewhere Skylab?


 
   
  Not in any significant detail, no.  The WA2 has plenty of oooomph for the LCD-2, though, and it's a great amp overall.  I've been extremely impressed with it in the months I've had it.


----------



## ardilla

What about the WA2 with hifiman? Any experiences anybody?


----------



## Icenine2

Hey Woo Tube Rollers.  Check out these tubes!!  http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2010/the_mighty_kronzilla/


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Hey Woo Tube Rollers.  Check out these tubes!!  http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2010/the_mighty_kronzilla/


 

 OMG. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What would I do with tubes that big? I guess they could help me keep my apartment warm during the winter.


----------



## Skylab

Some Cary power amps have crazy big tubes like that - tubes that make 6AS7's look small.


----------



## hodgjy

That's my portable rig for when I go jogging.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Hey Woo Tube Rollers.  Check out these tubes!!  http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2010/the_mighty_kronzilla/


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That's my portable rig for when I go jogging.


 


  LOL... imagine if someone actually did that...
   
  I've seen tubes that size whenever I go to the MIT swapfest.  Granted they're few and far between, but they're so cool.
   
  My favorites are the ones with a "Warning: Emitted Radiation" or some such statement silk-screened onto the glass.  I'm sure they're talking about disturbances to surrounding electronics, but it's pretty fun to imagine growing an extra ear or two...
   
  Now there's a new Head-Fi fad; more ears.  "So, have you tried the HD800 with the D7000?  It's an incredible combination."
  "Yeah, but you haven't heard anything until you power one set with the WA22 and the other set with a WA5."


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> My favorites are the ones with a "Warning: Emitted Radiation" or some such statement silk-screened onto the glass.  I'm sure they're talking about disturbances to surrounding electronics, but it's pretty fun to imagine growing an extra ear or two...
> 
> Now there's a new Head-Fi fad; more ears.  "So, have you tried the HD800 with the D7000?  It's an incredible combination."
> "Yeah, but you haven't heard anything until you power one set with the WA22 and the other set with a WA5."


 

 LMAO!!!


----------



## grokit

Has anybody compared the sound of the TS 5998 with the TS 7236? I'm pretty sure they have the same power rating but that's about all I know. I'm not sure how they compare desirability-wise either.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> LOL... imagine if someone actually did that...
> 
> I've seen tubes that size whenever I go to the MIT swapfest.  Granted they're few and far between, but they're so cool.
> 
> ...


 

 O god, the wallet's worst nightmare.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Has anybody compared the sound of the TS 5998 with the TS 7236? I'm pretty sure they have the same power rating but that's about all I know. I'm not sure how they compare desirability-wise either.


 

 TS5998 has more full body sound. My memory is fuzzy since I only briefly had Tung Sol 7236 (they were returned to WooAudio for one piece being defective... Somehow WooAudio re-shipped Sylvania 7236, saying Sylvania is better... I thought TungSol 7236 had slightly more full body sound and was better. I even asked Skylab for his opinion between Sylvania and TS 7236, he also thought TS was bit better, with fuzzy memory...)
  I think Tungsol 5998 is a must have tubes for WA2. wide and FULL.  TungSol 7236 is bit leaner but still full body compared to Sylvana 7236. I guess it all depends on how your DAC sounds. If your DAC is already profound in bass, maybe TS5998 is too much for your amp. But who really don't like boomy base? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Anyway, I really liked the look of gold metal base and the red prints of TS 7236. They are so sexy!


----------



## mikemalter

Yea!  
   
  Jack finally got his shipment of EML's in and mine should be delivered on Friday.  
   
  My current rectifier is the Sophia Princess and I have heard that the EML is much better.  Looking forward to hearing the difference.  
   
  Will post impressions and pictures.


----------



## jc9394

Nice, which EML you get? 5U4G? Please let us know your impression.


----------



## hodgjy

I mostly agree with this post--very good description.  I use the 5998 as my primary power tube.  I think it's the best all-rounder that sounds beautiful with many genres of music.  It is well balanced, well controlled, has good bass, sweet highs, and an overall smooth presentation.  It leans to the warm side, but there are certainly much warmer power tubes out there.  Compared to the Tung-Sol 7236, it is a little slower, has less bass, and has less slam.  The 7236 has a little less body than the 5998, and overall is less warm.  The 7236 is an excellent tube for metal, electronica, trance, and other music that requires speed and good bass slam.  I think the 7236 has a solid state flavor to it, while still retaining some midrange tube bloom.  Plus, the highs aren't scratchy at all.  I think they are both excellent tubes and should compliment each other for different musical styles.  The TS 7236 is a much better tube than the Sylvania 7236.  They have very different plate constructions.  The Sylvania is a lean tube, sounds dry at times, very solid state, and lacks a lot of the "tube magic" we know and love.  It does have excellent bass and speed, but there are certainly many much more musical tubes out there that I recommend over the Sylvania. 
  
  Quote: 





pzm9pzm9 said:


> TS5998 has more full body sound. My memory is fuzzy since I only briefly had Tung Sol 7236 (they were returned to WooAudio for one piece being defective... Somehow WooAudio re-shipped Sylvania 7236, saying Sylvania is better... I thought TungSol 7236 had slightly more full body sound and was better. I even asked Skylab for his opinion between Sylvania and TS 7236, he also thought TS was bit better, with fuzzy memory...)
> I think Tungsol 5998 is a must have tubes for WA2. wide and FULL.  TungSol 7236 is bit leaner but still full body compared to Sylvana 7236. I guess it all depends on how your DAC sounds. If your DAC is already profound in bass, maybe TS5998 is too much for your amp. But who really don't like boomy base?
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gknix

Ahh I have a problem with the WA6SE, and I've got to ask a newbie question. 
  Ever since I switched to 6SN7 using Glenn's adaptors, I've been having quite of trouble. First being the Full Music 6SN7s had problems and I had to switch for a new pair. Then, I found out that Glenn's adaptors were also causing a hum/buz problem. 
   
  Now, the hum/buzz problem still kind of exists, let me try to describe it. 
  When using the LCD-2s, the hums are either disappeared or extremely faint to that point it does not bother me, unlike the previous two attempts. When I use my JH-13s, however, the hum/buzz noise becomes quite obnoxious and evident. I later found that when I placed my hands near the tubes, and better yet, holding the tube or adaptors, the buzz/hum goes away. If someone has encountered a similar problem in the past, or know of what I am experiencing, I would be grateful if you could share some thought.
   
  Thank you!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





gknix said:


> Ahh I have a problem with the WA6SE, and I've got to ask a newbie question.
> Ever since I switched to 6SN7 using Glenn's adaptors, I've been having quite of trouble. First being the Full Music 6SN7s had problems and I had to switch for a new pair. Then, I found out that Glenn's adaptors were also causing a hum/buz problem.
> 
> Now, the hum/buzz problem still kind of exists, let me try to describe it.
> ...


 

 I don't know why is happening but it is nromal that you will have more of a problem with the JH-13 since they are very low impedance 28 ohms and very hugh senitivity 119db. I had an issue with an Apache once. I could hardly hear it with my T1. it was more obvious with my Edition 9 and it was horrible with the JH-13. The problem was the same it wad just amplified more by the combination of lower impedance and higher sentitivity.


----------



## Skylab

The reason you hear it less with the LCD-2 is that they are much less sensitive (meaning their electrical sensitivity is lower).  The buzz/hum is always there, but you hear it more on the more sensitive headphones.
   
  Try a pair of tubes that were designed for the 6SE - 6DE7 or 6EW7.  Do you still have hum?
   
  Using the 6SN7 via the tube adapters is for sure not worth it over the stock type of tubes if you have to deal with hum.  To be candid, I prefer the 6FD7 in my WA6 over the 6SN7 (this has nothing to do with Glenn's adapters, which are excellent).


----------



## mikemalter

I don't know.  If I knew more about tube rolling, I would have asked.  I just asked for an EML, and Jack got it for me.

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice, which EML you get? 5U4G? Please let us know your impression.


----------



## avsBuddy

Does the quality of the rectifier matters for the WA2 as much as it is for WA6SE? Which one would be a good upgrade, or stock would be good enough? Woo Audio doesn't even offer a rectification tube upgrade on their website.
   
  I'm still debating between WA2 and WA6SE though, wish it would be carried locally - paying full MSRP anyway


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


mikemalter said:


> I don't know.  If I knew more about tube rolling, I would have asked.  I just asked for an EML, and Jack got it for me.


 
   
  don't worry, mike.  the difference between EML 274b and EML 5U4G are very subtle...
  both excellent rectifiers...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> Quote:
> 
> don't worry, mike.  the difference between EML 274b and EML 5U4G are very subtle...
> both excellent rectifiers...


 

 X2, it is very subtle.  You really have to look for it and do a lot of swapping back and forth.
   
  5U4G - slightly faster and more dynamic
  274B - more romantic sounding, love it with jazz and classical


----------



## Cal

Whoo (no pun intended)!! My WA6 is out for delivery!


----------



## ericohgb

Dear friends,
   
  Would like to join the club. Currently own a WA-GES with NOS tubes; WA2 with NOS tubes; and a maxed WA-WES.
   
  Regards,
  Érico


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Does the quality of the rectifier matters for the WA2 as much as it is for WA6SE? Which one would be a good upgrade, or stock would be good enough? Woo Audio doesn't even offer a rectification tube upgrade on their website.
> 
> I'm still debating between WA2 and WA6SE though, wish it would be carried locally - paying full MSRP anyway


 


 Don't know in the WA2 but it did in my WA5-LE. When I sent back to Jack the Sophia he sent by mistake and while I was waiting for my EML I put in the stock one and the sound got harsh. Then I went I bought a pair of new ElectroHarmonix and they were harsh too so finally I bought a NOS pair of RCA and the sound got much better but no tuntil I got my EML I was able to go to heaven.


----------



## mikemalter

Very interesting.  Maybe I'll email Jack and ask him what the model number is.
   
  This thread is really great and there is such a body of knowledge here.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, it is very subtle.  You really have to look for it and do a lot of swapping back and forth.
> 
> 5U4G - slightly faster and more dynamic
> 274B - more romantic sounding, love it with jazz and classical


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





ericohgb said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> Would like to join the club. Currently own a WA-GES with NOS tubes; WA2 with NOS tubes; and a maxed WA-WES.
> 
> ...


 

  Welcome to the club, our door is always open.


----------



## mikemalter

Welcome Erico!

  
  Quote: 





ericohgb said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> Would like to join the club. Currently own a WA-GES with NOS tubes; WA2 with NOS tubes; and a maxed WA-WES.
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cal said:


> Whoo (no pun intended)!! My WA6 is out for delivery!


 
   
  Someone's going to have a wonderful weekend. Congratulations again. Feeling Woozie yet?


----------



## dmac03

These woo puns never get old. It gives me something to chuckle at on my day off.


----------



## StevieDvd

No more woo'm for any more puns, that woo'de be woo'de, woo'de it not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But seriously does anyone recall a modded Woo 6 that had wooden (no not a pun) top panel,?
   
  Ta
   
  Steve


----------



## Icenine2

Maybe the amps should be made in Wooster, Mass. instead.


----------



## grokit

I think I recall a WA6 with woo-den side panels


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> As far as the tube socket goes, that sounds like a possibility; Jack said there was a bad tube, but other than that, he's not hearing any hum. By the way, this hum I was hearing was independent of the volume control; it was equally loud at minimum and maximum positions.   I guess I'll just have to wait until I get it back to try it out.
> 
> During the last month, this amp has certainly been on the road more than it's been in my house.


 
  Well, my WA6SE arrived today, after it's double round trip between here and Elmhurst, NY.  I haven't connected it to my system yet (later this afternoon) but I did unpack it, let it get to room temperature (cold on that FedEx truck; winter is not far away up here) and connected the AC and power umbilical cords.  I added tubes, plugged in headphones, and powered it on, waiting for the hum.  Nothing; dead silent, even at full volume.  Whatever the problem was, it's now been fixed.  
   
  It's still a mystery that when the amp was tested at Woo Audio (twice) it passed with flying colors, except for one faulty tube; Jack replaced the pair.  I'll have to check again with sources connected later, but so far the hum seems to be totally gone.


----------



## mikemalter

Just got an email from Jack, he said that he got me a 5U4G Mesh plate.  I am thinking I would have liked the 274B better as you described it.
   
  What do you mean by more romantic sounding?  I'm hoping I did not get something cold and harsh.
   
  Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, it is very subtle.  You really have to look for it and do a lot of swapping back and forth.
> 
> 5U4G - slightly faster and more dynamic
> 274B - more romantic sounding, love it with jazz and classical


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got an email from Jack, he said that he got me a 5U4G Mesh plate.  I am thinking I would have liked the 274B better as you described it.
> 
> What do you mean by more romantic sounding?  I'm hoping I did not get something cold and harsh.
> 
> Thanks.


 

 !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!! _*mikemalter.*_ I'm sure you'll be totally happy with your Mesh Plate. (You really have to stop reading posts after you buy something like an EML tube.) Lest you be perpetually wondering about the "what-ifs."


----------



## jc9394

Mike, I'm sure you will be happy with 5U4G. It is my flavor tube, I use it much more than the 274B.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Mike, I'm sure you will be happy with 5U4G. It is my flavor tube, I use it much more than the 274B.


 

 Thanks.


  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I wonder what Jack must think.  I sent him an email and asked him why he decided to get everyone a 5U4G Mesh Plate instead of a 274B.  It was a question purely for educational purposes.  Hope he gets a laugh out of it.  And, you are right.  After buying something, I must stop reading posts about it.


----------



## jc9394

Both WA22 and WA6 is designed based on 5U4G when I asked Jack which one is better last year when I ordered my EML from him.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Both WA22 and WA6 is designed based on 5U4G when I asked Jack which one is better last year when I ordered my EML from him.


 


  The WA6 is actually designed around the 5AR4.  I think the 6SE is where it makes the switch to the 5U4G.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Goodness.  After all the fuss that was caused over the adapter experimentation it seems like I might be the only one left who is still satisifed with the results based on what I've been reading lately.  I think a lot of it may have to do with my headphones, which seriously needed taming in the mids and highs.  I'm guessing the 6SN7 is just too relaxed a sound in the WA6 for most people, but it suited my needs wonderfully.  Every time I try to go back to the 6FD7 I just can't listen to it.  Even going beyond tonal differences the refinement, resolution, and proper layering of the soundstage is just not there.  The difference is a lot like removing the DAC from the system actually, with a dose of harsh highs and upper mids added in for good measure.  The 6SN7 tube was the only thing that cured the awful midrange "glare" I kept experiencing on headphones too.  It's a shame everybody else wasn't as satisfied.
   
  It is also comforting to know that if I move to a WA22 in the future the tubes I spent so much money on can come along for the ride.


----------



## vinyllp33

Greetings, 
   
  Can someone with the newer, clear-top EML 5U4G give me a height measurement from the bottom of the base (not including pins) to the top. 
   
  I read that they did a slight redesign that makes this version slightly smaller than the original but it seems none of the websites have been updated with respective specs and/or photos. 
   
  Thanks in Advance!


----------



## mikemalter

If you don't get something by today, I'll measure mine and post photos when it arrives tomorrow.
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Greetings,
> 
> Can someone with the newer, clear-top EML 5U4G give me a height measurement from the bottom of the base (not including pins) to the top.
> 
> ...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got an email from Jack, he said that he got me a 5U4G Mesh plate.  I am thinking I would have liked the 274B better as you described it.
> 
> What do you mean by more romantic sounding?  I'm hoping I did not get something cold and harsh.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  Don't worry about it. The EML 5U4G Mesh Plates is a wonderful sounding tube. I have a pair of those in the power supply of my WA5-LE. I have tried the Sophia 274B, the stock tubes, a pair of ElectroHarmonix, a pair of NOS RCA and Tungsol and the EML is my favorite with the Sophia second.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> It's still a mystery that when the amp was tested at Woo Audio (twice) it passed with flying colors, except for one faulty tube; Jack replaced the pair.  I'll have to check again with sources connected later, but so far the hum seems to be totally gone.


 
  I've got the WA6SE connected to my system, and everything sounds great.  Hum is totally gone, with all tubes.  I'm currently using an EML 5U4G mesh plate(I also have the Sophia but like the EML better).  I've tried several pairs of tubes this evening, now that the amp has the modifications:  Sylvania 6EW7s, RCA skinny 6EW7s, GE 6FD7s, and a pair of Pinnacle 6DR7s I just got from Jack.  
   
  I think one of the GE 6FD7s is bad, since it crackled in the left channel, and then in the right when I switched them.  The Pinnacles sound good, with more bass than the 6EW7s, but the gain is so high I can hardly move the volume control above 8 o'clock.
   
  The Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7s are the most detailed sounding to me for mids and highs, but they're a bit bass-shy.  The skinny RCA 6EW7s seem to have a bit more bass, but don't have the sparkle in the mids and highs that the Sylvanias do.
   
  I've read about some users' experiences with adapters and 6SN7s, etc.; I'm not sure I want to get into anything like that, especially since I'd rather have my amp at home instead of inside a FedEx truck, where it has spent most of October.
   
  Ideally I would like to find a pair of tubes that sound like the Sylvania 6EW7s, but with a bit more bass impact;  I'm sure there are other tubes that I haven't tried yet that might fill the bill; any suggestions?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Goodness.  After all the fuss that was caused over the adapter experimentation it seems like I might be the only one left who is still satisifed with the results based on what I've been reading lately.  I think a lot of it may have to do with my headphones, which seriously needed taming in the mids and highs.  I'm guessing the 6SN7 is just too relaxed a sound in the WA6 for most people, but it suited my needs wonderfully.  Every time I try to go back to the 6FD7 I just can't listen to it.  Even going beyond tonal differences the refinement, resolution, and proper layering of the soundstage is just not there.  The difference is a lot like removing the DAC from the system actually, with a dose of harsh highs and upper mids added in for good measure.  The 6SN7 tube was the only thing that cured the awful midrange "glare" I kept experiencing on headphones too.  It's a shame everybody else wasn't as satisfied.
> 
> It is also comforting to know that if I move to a WA22 in the future the tubes I spent so much money on can come along for the ride.


 

 X2. 
  Yes, even the 'Silent One' speaks now and again... I stand with you on the 6SN7 direction. While I thought the 6EW7's played nice with Sophia, they were often too polite and most of the time pedestrian. I learned from this space that the 6FD7's would give me that much needed punch and I.D. some bass, which was MIA. Ordered a pair of 6FD7's but one arrived DOA. 
   
  Jack agreed to replace the pair - to be honest, I have not heard them yet. It was at this time I decided to move toward the 6SN7 series. Jack allowed me to pay the difference and shipped me my first NOS 6SN7 tubes. I had them on simmer for 5 hours before lifting the lid. The temptation to see what I had was too great, so I peeked and took a listen. They sounded way ahead of the 6EW7's even at 5 hours. They came into their own at 125 hours. More layers and texture in the middle, more of everything really. 
   
  My position on using adapters with the WA6SE is neutral. I sought to solve a particular problem and they helped me address that. So no, I'm not fixin' to chase anyone down the street shouting "Use adapters!" That'd be time better spent listening to music... in the right mood, mind you! But I am willing to share my experience with the switch - I am satisfied. And speak to the quality of the adapters and customer relations with Glenn., both good.
   
  Reading between the lines, long-time Woozies will know it was the 6SN7 Tung-Sol Round Plate chatter that got to me!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Goodness.  After all the fuss that was caused over the adapter experimentation it seems like I might be the only one left who is still satisifed with the results based on what I've been reading lately.  I think a lot of it may have to do with my headphones, which seriously needed taming in the mids and highs.  I'm guessing the 6SN7 is just too relaxed a sound in the WA6 for most people, but it suited my needs wonderfully.  Every time I try to go back to the 6FD7 I just can't listen to it.  Even going beyond tonal differences the refinement, resolution, and proper layering of the soundstage is just not there.  The difference is a lot like removing the DAC from the system actually, with a dose of harsh highs and upper mids added in for good measure.  The 6SN7 tube was the only thing that cured the awful midrange "glare" I kept experiencing on headphones too.  It's a shame everybody else wasn't as satisfied.
> 
> It is also comforting to know that if I move to a WA22 in the future the tubes I spent so much money on can come along for the ride.


 

 I'm still using the adapters with Sylvania VT-231.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'm still using the adapters with Sylvania VT-231.


 

 And I, adapters with Raytheon USN 6SN7W.


----------



## dminches

Has anyone owned or spent enough time with both the WA6 and the WA 6SE to described the differences gained by the separate power supply? Does the SE drive certain headphones better or is the sound improved with the added PS?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Has anyone owned or spent enough time with both the WA6 and the WA 6SE to described the differences gained by the separate power supply? Does the SE drive certain headphones better or is the sound improved with the added PS?


 

 WA6 vs WA 6SE in the Search Box will yield plenty of results. Earlier this year, another user posed the same question to Jack Wu.His reply:
   
  [size=13.1944px]*"The WA6SE is a significant upgrade from a WA6. Because of a separate power supply, it allows us to use a more advanced topology. This model is 2 to 3 times power to the WA6 and thus dynamic handling, controlling, and speed are superior." *[/size]
   
  Expect others to share headphone pairings and other details once their day gets under way. The 'Special Edition' is my only Woo to date. For me, the decision between the two was simple. I wanted the SE but only had WA6 $$$. So rather than jump on it, only to upgrade a few months later, I decided to wait and get the SE outright. I like drama some of the time but _never_ at the cost of my listening sessions!


----------



## Orcin

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Has anyone owned or spent enough time with both the WA6 and the WA 6SE to described the differences gained by the separate power supply? Does the SE drive certain headphones better or is the sound improved with the added PS?


 


  Here you go.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/375885/review-woo-audio-wa6-vs-wa6se-stock-units
   
   
  It was done about 400 pages ago, but it is still relevant.


----------



## oldwine

I also replaced the stock rectifier to RCA. it sounds more smooth and tuby, i think it is a good upgrade, but i still want to get the one with more balanced combination.
  
  Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Does the quality of the rectifier matters for the WA2 as much as it is for WA6SE? Which one would be a good upgrade, or stock would be good enough? Woo Audio doesn't even offer a rectification tube upgrade on their website.
> 
> I'm still debating between WA2 and WA6SE though, wish it would be carried locally - paying full MSRP anyway


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





pzm9pzm9 said:


> TS5998 has more full body sound. My memory is fuzzy since I only briefly had Tung Sol 7236 (they were returned to WooAudio for one piece being defective... Somehow WooAudio re-shipped Sylvania 7236, saying Sylvania is better... I thought TungSol 7236 had slightly more full body sound and was better. I even asked Skylab for his opinion between Sylvania and TS 7236, he also thought TS was bit better, with fuzzy memory...)
> I think Tungsol 5998 is a must have tubes for WA2. wide and FULL.  TungSol 7236 is bit leaner but still full body compared to Sylvana 7236. I guess it all depends on how your DAC sounds. If your DAC is already profound in bass, maybe TS5998 is too much for your amp. But who really don't like boomy base?
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I mostly agree with this post--very good description.  I use the 5998 as my primary power tube.  I think it's the best all-rounder that sounds beautiful with many genres of music.  It is well balanced, well controlled, has good bass, sweet highs, and an overall smooth presentation.  It leans to the warm side, but there are certainly much warmer power tubes out there.  Compared to the Tung-Sol 7236, it is a little slower, has less bass, and has less slam.  The 7236 has a little less body than the 5998, and overall is less warm.  The 7236 is an excellent tube for metal, electronica, trance, and other music that requires speed and good bass slam.  I think the 7236 has a solid state flavor to it, while still retaining some midrange tube bloom.  Plus, the highs aren't scratchy at all.  I think they are both excellent tubes and should compliment each other for different musical styles.  The TS 7236 is a much better tube than the Sylvania 7236.  They have very different plate constructions.  The Sylvania is a lean tube, sounds dry at times, very solid state, and lacks a lot of the "tube magic" we know and love.  It does have excellent bass and speed, but there are certainly many much more musical tubes out there that I recommend over the Sylvania.


 


 Thanks for the replies, guys. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Chatham 2399 tubes, reportedly the same as the TS 5998


----------



## mikemalter

Well, my EML arrived from Jack today.  I'm replacing the Sophia Princess rectifier in my WA22.
   
  First impressions immediately turning on and listening without break in or warm up.
   

 Needed to go to high output from low.  Have been on low.  This is good as I may be able to put my Sylvania 7236 power tubes back in.  Right now I have a pair of RCA 6080's in there as the Sylvania's were too powerful and edgy with the Sophia Princess rectifier.
 Coleman Hawkens - Just Friends - sax seems to come from outside of my headphone.  
 Sound is very alive and seems more present.
 I think I can hear more detail.
 Bass is more present without sounding bloated.
   
  That's it for first impressions.  Here are some photos:


----------



## Audiogalore

Look great, I have a EML 5U4G for my WA-6SE on order through Jack and got confirmation that I should have it tomorrow.
   
  How do you like the like the Treasures. I have a set of Treasure 300b for my mono blocks and they sound fantastic,
   
  Just curious if you know if the WA-22 drives the K1000 well.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, my EML arrived from Jack today.  I'm replacing the Sophia Princess rectifier in my WA22.
> 
> First impressions immediately turning on and listening without break in or warm up.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

I think we have the same brand as Jack got a big shipment of them in.
   
  I like the treasures, but I have to qualify it.  I am still learning and understanding the dynamics of how various classes of tubes (power, driver & rectifier) shape sound.  There seems to be a relationship also between tubes in those classes, so a specific tube by itself might be "good" in an academic sense, but practically when put into the mix, might not contribute in a good way.  So I am still learning how to listen and what to listen for.
   
  I do not know if the WA22 drives the K1000 well, maybe someone else could comment.
   
  I'd be interested in your take on the EML.
  
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Look great, I have a EML 5U4G for my WA-6SE on order through Jack and got confirmation that I should have it tomorrow.
> 
> How do you like the like the Treasures. I have a set of Treasure 300b for my mono blocks and they sound fantastic,
> 
> Just curious if you know if the WA-22 drives the K1000 well.


----------



## balderon

mikemalter, I am curious how many hours do you have on the Treasures?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





balderon said:


> mikemalter, I am curious how many hours do you have on the Treasures?


 

 About 150 hours.
  
   What is your thinking?


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> About 150 hours.
> 
> What is your thinking?


 
   
  I guess I am a lil early asking. I was curious if you had noticed any significant changes during your break-in period. In my experience I didn't notice much change after about 50 hours and I never reached the 300 hours prior to rolling a different tube.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Ideally I would like to find a pair of tubes that sound like the Sylvania 6EW7s, but with a bit more bass impact;  I'm sure there are other tubes that I haven't tried yet that might fill the bill; any suggestions?


 

 If you only have the thin bottle RCA 6EW7 I recommend you try a pair of the fat bottle 6EW7.  They tend to sound more open than the thin bottle version.  I think maybe a Raytheon 6EW7 big bottle in the clear top might suit you too.  I thought it was bass shy, but it should have a bit more on the bottom end than the Sylvania does while staying airy at the top.  The Sylvanias are usually the best with treble so anything else is going to be a compromise in that region in exchange for better bass.  I never liked my Raytheon 6EW7 in the past, but the EML rectifier completely changed my opinion of it for the better.  Mine were made in Japan too so I may be hearing something different than the usual US made tubes too.  In either case try to find old vintages, early 60's or if possible late 50's.  The latter are really hard to come by unfortunately.  You'll know if you found an early RCA in this tube family because the big triode section will be black and shaped like a cross.  All the later verions from the 60's onward are flat and gray.


----------



## hodgjy

It is.  I briefly had one in my possession before returning it to the vendor for extreme microphonics.  It looked just a like a non-JAN 5998.  The JAN 5998 has a slightly different wiring schematic to the plates, presumably with no affect on sound.  My 2399 sounded just like the 5998 in all aspects, except for the microphonics.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the replies, guys. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Chatham 2399 tubes, reportedly the same as the TS 5998


----------



## Cal

How do I order a EML 5U4G from Jack? I don't see it on the Woo Audio website. Is this a special order that I have to e-mail him about?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, my EML arrived from Jack today.  I'm replacing the Sophia Princess rectifier in my WA22.
> 
> First impressions immediately turning on and listening without break in or warm up.
> 
> ...


 

 Great pics, mike. I'm sure you'll love the EML as many of us who have tried this great tube. The one you received should still be the old version, from what I read in the forum, someone said that the new one is shorter and without the chrome top.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





cal said:


> How do I order a EML 5U4G from Jack? I don't see it on the Woo Audio website. Is this a special order that I have to e-mail him about?


 
   
  Send Jack an email and ask him the availability or you can order direct from JAC MUSIC but they might charge a bit higher than Jack, not sure.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cal said:


> How do I order a EML 5U4G from Jack? I don't see it on the Woo Audio website. Is this a special order that I have to e-mail him about?


 

 If you know the amount, touch his PayPal account with description of item for purchase. Or send him a message with your inquiry.


----------



## Cal

Thanks, guys. Just sent Jack an e-mail.
   
  I'm having a difficult time choosing between the EML 5u4g and EML 274b.


----------



## jc9394

Mike, you will love the EML 5U4G.  Give it around 50 hours and let us know how it compare to the Sophia.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cal said:


> Thanks, guys. Just sent Jack an e-mail.
> 
> I'm having a difficult time choosing between the EML 5u4g and EML 274b.


 

 5U4G.  If you are as crazy as me, than get both.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Send Jack an email and ask him the availability or you can order direct from JAC MUSIC but they might charge a bit higher than Jack, not sure.


 


  Never used the before and I love to support small business, especially the one that take cares of his customers.
   
  Danny, how are you doing?  Been MIA for a while, busy?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





balderon said:


> I guess I am a lil early asking. I was curious if you had noticed any significant changes during your break-in period. In my experience I didn't notice much change after about 50 hours and I never reached the 300 hours prior to rolling a different tube.


 


 Thing is for me, when I first got the amp I really did not know what to listen for.  I had no real baseline.  I could tell that the stock tubes were not as good as the upgrades, and that the Sylvania power tube made my ears bleed.  So, I really could not tell.  Right now I am beginning to understand what differences in rectifiers cause.  When I have a baseline there, I'll start looking at driver tubes.
   
  What did you replace the Treasures with?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Mike, you will love the EML 5U4G.  Give it around 50 hours and let us know how it compare to the Sophia.


 

 Thanks.  After 50 hours, I'll post a comparison.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thing is for me, when I first got the amp I really did not know what to listen for.  I had no real baseline.  I could tell that the stock tubes were not as good as the upgrades, and that the Sylvania power tube made my ears bleed.  So, I really could not tell.  Right now I am beginning to understand what differences in rectifiers cause.  When I have a baseline there, I'll start looking at driver tubes.
> 
> What did you replace the Treasures with?


 
   
  I am very pleased with the sound of Tung Sol Round Plate.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





balderon said:


> I am very pleased with the sound of Tung Sol Round Plate.


 

 I've been following debates, reviews and comments about the Treasures and the Tung-Sol. 
   
  My problem with NOS is that the prices vary so much, and quality and matching is such a big question mark.  On ebay a pair can go anywhere from $350 to $500.  On the other hand the treasures are not inexpensive by any means at $280 (Jack sells them at this price).  But there is a stable supply and the sound is consistant across batches and if something goes wrong there is a warranty.
   
  Too bad there is not a tube library where you can check out tubes and then decide which types work the best.


----------



## grokit

Speaking of price variances, this seller sure took a bath on this particular sale (if it's true).


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Speaking of price variances, this seller sure took a bath on this particular sale (if it's true).


 

 There was a gent on e-bay a while back selling these from an estate sale and I asked him if he would do me a deal for the right price. He was a real nice guy and I quoted that sale you listed, I also told him I had seen them go for 3-4 times that amount. He asked me a few questions regarding them in return for a great deal as he didn't really know anything about tubes and had many various tubes to list for sale. My knowledge compared to you guys is limited at best but I told him what I knew and he let me have them for that price also, I was very lucky indeed.........
   
  However, because I couldn't bare the thought of being without them I bought another pair at market value (over £100 per tube) and just hope that they out live me. They are certainly the best there is.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I've been following debates, reviews and comments about the Treasures and the Tung-Sol.
> 
> My problem with NOS is that the prices vary so much, and quality and matching is such a big question mark.  On ebay a pair can go anywhere from $350 to $500.  On the other hand the treasures are not inexpensive by any means at $280 (Jack sells them at this price).  But there is a stable supply and the sound is consistant across batches and if something goes wrong there is a warranty.
> 
> Too bad there is not a tube library where you can check out tubes and then decide which types work the best.


 

  
  I agree... the NOS tube 'market' is pretty damn ridiculous.  It's like there's a limited supply or something...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  You tell your friends the prices for 60-70 year old tubes and their eyes pop out of their sockets.  Although from time to time, you can manage to secure a good pair of tubes for a great price.  You just have to be patient.
   
  And the tube library idea; please don't mention things like that around here.  Head-Fi'ers already have some toys in the attic... they don't need tubes up there too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Speaking of price variances, this seller sure took a bath on this particular sale (if it's true).


 


  Follow the ebay link for the actual action.  It really ended at $326.10 which is right in line with where they usually end.  That seller has sold a number of pairs over the months, one auction at a time.


----------



## Cal

Can anyone post a picture of the EML 5U4G's glow?


----------



## che15

Spending more money on tubes than what your amplifier is worth is just ridiculous.


 Yes it is nice to tube roll, but I see some people letting it get out of control. No tube out there will make your current amplifier sound better than upgrading to a better amplifier. />

 I have already spent more money on tubes than I should have, but nowhere close to half the price of my amp.


  




 This nothing but a little advice to all the new woo amp buyers out there.





 Enjoy your music, before anything else...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cal said:


> Can anyone post a picture of the EML 5U4G's glow?


 

  
  Not the best pics out there...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Spending more money on tubes than what your amplifier is worth is just ridiculous.
> Yes it is nice to tube roll, but I see some people getting out of control. No tube out there will make
> your current amplifier sound better than upgrading to a better amp will.
> I have already spent more money on tubes than I should have, but nowhere close to half the price of my amp.
> ...


 

 Hum... I guess I'm one of the few crazy one...I spent close to the cost of the amp.


----------



## che15

jc9394 said:


> Hum... I guess I'm one of the few crazy one...I spent close to the cost of the amp.






 You have one of the best or maybe the best balanced amp in the market so if you have money to buy any tube you like, enjoy my friend. 
 What I wrote was meant to be for people who can upgrade the amps like myself.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





cal said:


> Can anyone post a picture of the EML 5U4G's glow?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





che15 said:


> Spending more money on tubes than what your amplifier is worth is just ridiculous.
> Yes it is nice to tube roll, but I see some people getting out of control. No tube out there will make
> your current amplifier sound better than upgrading to a better amp will.
> I have already spent more money on tubes than I should have, but nowhere close to half the price of my amp.
> ...


 


  No offense but I think this is for each individual person to decide for themself.  Yes I have doubled my investment in the amp by buying expensive tubes but I can say without exaggeration that my enjoyment has also doubled from what I was experiencing when I first started tube rolling.  Once you hear it for yourself the EML tubes and the TSRP justify their high cost by being on a whole different level of performance.
   
  I just took my TSRP out of the amp actually.   Now that they are broken in I wanted to compare them to my other tubes.  It is much easier to understand what they added to the sound after you subtract those qualities again.  The depth and layers that made the music feel real is missing without the TSRP in the amp.


----------



## TheWuss

Well...  i have come to see the "great 6SN7 dalliance of 2010" to be a fruitless effort, for myself at least...
  My main headphone at home is the LCD-2.  And that headphone desires a lot of juice, which the 6SN7 was not able to provide when seated in the WA6...
  Those tubes have less power in the WA6, and when turned up loud the sound became edgy, verging on distortion...
   
  I didn't spend that much money on the 6SN7 tubes, though.  Probably less than $200...
   
  However, as far as expensive tubes go, I do have the EML 5U4G, and Sophia 274B, and consider both of those worth the price of admission. 
   
  So, to me, it's not so much spending money on tubes as it is spending money on tubes that will reap the most benefits with your setup.  The 6SN7s didn't do it for me, but might for some other folks...


----------



## Silent One

Tomorrow.  1 November 2010.   A very big day... for a VERY BIG TUBE. Finally get to empty the tea tin and purchase the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate. Only remaining question will be, which vendor can put it into my grubby lil' hands the quickest?!


----------



## dmac03

Please let me know who can put it into your grubby lil' hands the quickest. I have come up short finding anyone. Jack is the only person that could definitively give me a time frame - of approximately 4 weeks.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> No offense but I think this is for each individual person to decide for themself.  Yes I have doubled my investment in the amp by buying expensive tubes but I can say without exaggeration that my enjoyment has also doubled from what I was experiencing when I first started tube rolling.  Once you hear it for yourself the EML tubes and the TSRP justify their high cost by being on a whole different level of performance.
> 
> I just took my TSRP out of the amp actually.   Now that they are broken in I wanted to compare them to my other tubes.  It is much easier to understand what they added to the sound after you subtract those qualities again.  The depth and layers that made the music feel real is missing without the TSRP in the amp.


 

 I guess you should get a max+++ WA5LE or a WES so then even if you go crazy like me you can get the best of the best in NOS tubes, and not exceed the cost of the Amp.
   
  And yes imo those TSRP's you got from John are really about the best bang for the buck I have ever gotten from any pair of tubes.
   
  Much better bang for the buck than my WE300B's, but then again without the WE300B's I would never know how truly wonderful the TSRP's can be and vise a verse. Of-course a pair of EML's 5U4G's(redesigned) just to round things off, is a must have.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Please let me know who can put it into your grubby lil' hands the quickest. I have come up short finding anyone. Jack is the only person that could definitively give me a time frame - of approximately 4 weeks.


 
   
  Midday will find me phoning & emailing in hot pursuit! Will share any info gathered. Jack was going to be the first on my now revised list - 4 weeks?!


----------



## dmac03

4 weeks as of last week. Perhaps it is 3 weeks now if he has a confirmed shipment coming in.


----------



## sillysally

You guys can try TubesUSA for the EML 5U4G, George seems to do thing right. I got my EML 5U4G's from Jack, but I did get a NOS EML 274B solid plate and a new EML 274B mesh from George.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> You guys can try TubesUSA for the EML 5U4G, George seems to do thing right. I got my EML 5U4G's from Jack, but I did get a NOS EML 274B solid plate and a new EML 274B mesh from George.


 

 Thanks, sillysally. Will put him atop the list. Along with Tube Audio Store (Ram Labs & Music Reference) in SoCal. Hopefully, the geography will help me get it as if walking through the door. I could if I had time I suppose...
   
  When listed, your collection of amps and tubes are inspiring. But when you describe them, _they read down right alluring!_


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> 4 weeks as of last week. Perhaps it is 3 weeks now if he has a confirmed shipment coming in.


 

 It took me 5 weeks to get my EML from Jack.  He told me two weeks.  Then it kept getting longer.  Maybe a problem with the supplier - don't know where he gets them from.  BTW, it was worth the wait.


----------



## sillysally

^^^^^
  Jac Music..
   
  http://www.jacmusic.com/


----------



## dmac03

I actually ordered a tube off tubeaudiostore.com (ram labs) about 2-3 weeks ago.  They had terrible service (I think RMAF has something to do with it). A week later I finally got an email stating that I would have to contact another guy within the company to figure out a time frame, but they never provided me with contact information for this other guy.
   
  George from tube USA seemed like a nice guy. He was the one that told me they were on back order and that he would contact me when they are in.
   
  The only think I didn't try was order straight from JAC Music


----------



## Cal

Jack told me 4 weeks for the EML 5U4G and/or EML 274B this morning via e-mail. Price is $50 more than other sites. I guess the question for me is, is $50 worth the peace of mind? I know I can buy from Jack with confidence. But if I can save $50 and tubeusa.com is just as reliable...


----------



## dminches

George at Tube USA is very good to deal with.  I had an issue which ended up not being the tube but he helped walk me through it and was willing to retest the tube to see if it was the issue.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cal said:


> Jack told me 4 weeks for the EML 5U4G and/or EML 274B this morning via e-mail. Price is $50 more than other sites. I guess the question for me is, is $50 worth the peace of mind? I know I can buy from Jack with confidence. But if I can save $50 and tubeusa.com is just as reliable...


 

 So, we're talking an estimated $280+? Will resume my search after lunch...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I actually ordered a tube off tubeaudiostore.com (ram labs) about 2-3 weeks ago.  They had terrible service (I think RMAF has something to do with it). A week later I finally got an email stating that I would have to contact another guy within the company to figure out a time frame, but they never provided me with contact information for this other guy.
> 
> George from tube USA seemed like a nice guy. He was the one that told me they were on back order and that he would contact me when they are in.
> 
> The only think I didn't try was order straight from JAC Music


 
   
  Did George offer an ETA? 1, 2, 3 days (I wish) or weeks?


----------



## Audiogalore

I received my EML 5U4G Saturday from Jack (Woo Audio) for my WA-6SE and have found it slightly warmer and more fuller sound than my Sophia 274B.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





cal said:


> Jack told me 4 weeks for the EML 5U4G and/or EML 274B this morning via e-mail. Price is $50 more than other sites. I guess the question for me is, is $50 worth the peace of mind? I know I can buy from Jack with confidence. But if I can save $50 and tubeusa.com is just as reliable...


 

 The thing I really like about Jack is that he will always make good on whatever goes wrong.  When my Sophia blew up, he called the factory and had them send me another one right away.  He did not even question me or wait for me to send the bad one back first.  So sometimes the extra $50.00 can be worth it.


----------



## mikemalter

At about 15 hours it turns sour and harsh, then sweetens out.  I have about 20 hours and I really love mine.  I think with my HD800's I have to be careful of tubes like the Sophia that seem, at least to me, to accentuate the highs.
   
  You have a really nice setup.
  
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> I received my EML 5U4G Saturday from Jack (Woo Audio) for my WA-6SE and have found it slightly warmer and more fuller sound than my Sophia 274B.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did George offer an ETA? 1, 2, 3 days (I wish) or weeks?


 
   No, he just said they were on back order and he would let me know when he had them in stock.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> At about 15 hours it turns sour and harsh, then sweetens out.  I have about 20 hours and I really love mine.  I think with my HD800's I have to be careful of tubes like the Sophia that seem, at least to me, to accentuate the highs.
> 
> You have a really nice setup.


 

 Thank you and I will take that thought in consideration to observe and critique any changes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The thing I really like about Jack is that he will always make good on whatever goes wrong.  When my Sophia blew up, he called the factory and had them send me another one right away.  He did not even question me or wait for me to send the bad one back first.  So sometimes the extra $50.00 can be worth it.


 
   
  I agree. A few months back I received a pair of tubes from him and one was DOA. Sent an email  letting him know what happened. Received a reply not five minutes later (he must have been online). He asked but one question: "Can I take & send a photo of the bad tube?." No sooner than I sat the Nikon down and hit "Send" he had it handled! Done!! Matter resolved!!!
   
  Update: Just left the Jac Music Store. The EML 5U4G Mesh: cost + shipping = $277.21, so Jack asking $280 is in line with retail price.


----------



## Silent One

Received your EML Saturday? (Somewhere in the background, Mr.Bill can be heard screaming "Ohhhhhh Noooo!!!) Hopefully, I can obtain one in 2010! Nice photographs, by the way. I too, have a WW-Stratus on my 6-SE. Very nice housing you gave your Woo. Is it also an Isolation platform on the bottom?


----------



## Cal

And Jack honors the one year warranty on the EML 5U4G?
   
  He told me the extended warranty (1 year) on the Sophia would be an extra $50.
   
  Either way, I don't think I'll be tube rolling any time soon...unless I somehow come across $280. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have my eyes on a new camera.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Received your EML Saturday? (Somewhere in the background, Mr.Bill can be heard screaming "Ohhhhhh Noooo!!!) Hopefully, I can obtain one in 2010! Nice photographs, by the way. I too, have a WW-Stratus on my 6-SE. Very nice housing you gave your Woo. Is it also an Isolation platform on the bottom?


 


  Yes, IMHO all tube units should be properly isolated to sound best and to eliminate floor noise of any source.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> No, he just said they were on back order and he would let me know when he had them in stock.


 
   
  George, Jack and one other vendor all said end of this month. George explained the maker had to retool, so everyone in same boat.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Yes, IMHO all tube units should be properly isolated to sound best and to eliminate floor noise of any source.


 
   
  Agree. Do you recognize that particular maker? And what kind of $$$ we talkin'?


----------



## Audiogalore

That is just the point, manufactures know that they can take advantage and will charge all source of prices for isolation. I can lend a cheap and scientific way.
   
  Go to Home Depot and buy a 1" MDF board, some cork and sandwich both. then get some Vibra-pods cones and support. Depending on the weight of your component will determine the calculated density of the support pod purchased to be placed underneath your component. Now you have achieved a dead quiet isolation.
   
  Enjoy Music!


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I agree. A few months back I received a pair of tubes from him and one was DOA. Sent an email  letting him know what happened. Received a reply not five minutes later (he must have been online). He asked but one question: "Can I take & send a photo of the bad tube?." No sooner than I sat the Nikon down and hit "Send" he had it handled! Done!! Matter resolved!!!
> 
> Update: Just left the Jac Music Store. The EML 5U4G Mesh: cost + shipping = $277.21, so Jack asking $280 is in line with retail price.


 

 I guess Jack's price has gone up, I paid  $245.00 shipped for my EML 5U4G!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Emission Labs might have raised their cost on the tubes for vendors.  My price from Jack was $240 only a month ago and other vendors were right around that price too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Emission Labs might have raised their cost on the tubes for vendors.  My price from Jack was $240 only a month ago and other vendors were right around that price too.


 

 Wanted to pull trigger a couple of months back but lacked the funds. I saved up for the old price. Now face an increase and still can't have it until month-end. I may buy a cable, some iso-materials and music for the time being. And return to the EML glass whenever (Dec/Jan).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> That is just the point, manufactures know that they can take advantage and will charge all source of prices for isolation. I can lend a cheap and scientific way.
> 
> Go to Home Depot and buy a 1" MDF board, some cork and sandwich both. then get some Vibra-pods cones and support. Depending on the weight of your component will determine the calculated density of the support pod purchased to be placed underneath your component. Now you have achieved a dead quiet isolation.
> 
> Enjoy Music!


 

 Your help is appreciated. To be clear, are you saying 1 layer of MDF & cork? Or, 2 layers of MDF with cork sandwiched in the middle? How thick should the cork be? Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wanted to pull trigger a couple of months back but lacked the funds. I saved up for the old price. Now face an increase and still can't have it until month-end. I may buy a cable, some iso-materials and music for the time being. And return to the EML glass whenever (Dec/Jan).


 


  FWIW, the price was a real stretch for me too.  Once I heard the tube that cost stopped bothering me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> FWIW, the price was a real stretch for me too.  Once I heard the tube that cost stopped bothering me.


 

 R-e-a-l-l-y . . . ok, the EML glass is back in play!
   
  Actually, I'm not bothered by the price. I understand it to be a purchase of quality. _I like quality.      _
  It's the wait that's killing me!!! (during saving period; post saving period)


----------



## jc9394

It is the strong EURO and weak USD driving the price up.


----------



## mikemalter

I just had an interesting experience because of my new EML.  The music is so beautiful sounding that I started to turn it up more.  I think I had it too loud because when I took my phones off, my ears were buzzing.  I think when we get these tubes that result in such beautiful music, turning it up too loud might have repurcussions.  Just thought I'd mention it.


----------



## grokit

Aye, too much of a good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## WindyCityCy

Took a few pics of my WA22 and her closest friends.  Just got a new EML with the rest of you guys on Saturday.  Really glad to have the EML back in play.
   
  Klein + Hummel o300s, HD800s, and D7000s

   
  o300s with o810 Sub

   
  Component Rack

   
  W4S, Touch, and WA22

   
  WA22 with EML and GECs


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Took a few pics of my WA22 and her closest friends.  Just got a new EML with the rest of you guys on Saturday.  Really glad to have the EML back in play.


 


  Very nice!!
   
  How do those brown base GECs sound with your D7000s?  I have pretty much the same exact setup; EML 5U4G mesh, NU 6F8G, and GEC 6080.  It's a really great sound!


----------



## WindyCityCy

The GECs sound great with the D7000s.  I like them so much that I bought 2 extra pairs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Not exactly cheap to just have sitting on the bench in case the starter goes down.  I figured they weren't going to get any cheaper though.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your help is appreciated. To be clear, are you saying 1 layer of MDF & cork? Or, 2 layers of MDF with cork sandwiched in the middle? How thick should the cork be? Thanks.


 

 1 layer of 1" MDF
  1/4" cork


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Took a few pics of my WA22 and her closest friends.  Just got a new EML with the rest of you guys on Saturday.  Really glad to have the EML back in play.
> 
> Klein + Hummel o300s, HD800s, and D7000s
> 
> ...


 

 Beautiful setup, would really sound great with a transporter instead of the touch. This way you would be fully and truly balanced output from your source and that is when the magic of music will happen with your setup especially with your HD800!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> The GECs sound great with the D7000s.  I like them so much that I bought 2 extra pairs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I'll gladly take a pair off your hands!  I mean, they're not getting any more expensive just sitting there...


----------



## dmac03

Windycitycy, very nice pics!
   
  How do you like your w4s dac with your woo?


----------



## sillysally

There seems to be a lot of interest in the new redesigned EML 5U4G mesh plate.
   
  Here is what Jack told me about the new redesigned EML 5U4G mesh plate.
  [size=medium]"Your EML is the older production. The new one is shorter and the gas fill in on the bottom"[/size]
   
At that time he had both the old and new EML 5U4G. 
   
As with any of my EML rectifier's after about 30 Hours these tubes will not change much.
   
  ss


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just had an interesting experience because of my new EML.  The music is so beautiful sounding that I started to turn it up more.  I think I had it too loud because when I took my phones off, my ears were buzzing.  I think when we get these tubes that result in such beautiful music, turning it up too loud might have repurcussions.  Just thought I'd mention it.


 

 It's always exciting to see one of our own reach newer heights; share their experiences.


----------



## sillysally

If you guys want to hear the ultimate in listing enjoyment with your WA6SE and WA5/LE along with your headphones like the HD-800's then the SVS Realiser is for you.
  Here is a link that describes in some detail what the Realiser really does, and believe it or not the Realiser really does what is said about it.
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/418401/long-awaited-smyth-svs-realiser-now-available-for-purchase/900#post_7015952
   
  Why I use the WA6SE and WA5/LE as examples with the higher end head phones (non balanced) is because you can then get the Realiser without the STAX system that the Realiser comes with for a lot less.
   
  I have had this system for many months now along with AIX's sound studio reference 5.1/7.1 systems and there new certified THX 5.1 system PRIR's. I use my AIX PRIR 7.1 for any 2Ch CD's and my collection of music videos. For MC music and movies I use the 5.1/7.1 or THX 5.1. And yes the audio playback is like I am back at AIX's studio hearing  the sound.
   
  Not only am I enjoying AIX's very high end sound system but there great room acoustics, and of-course AIX's sound engineer setting everything up for me so I could copy there systems.
   
  Why I am bring this up is because of what MikeM said about wanting to crank up the volume, I am still doing that and paying the price, takes about two days of lower level volume for my hearing to go back to normal.
   
  ss


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for lifting us up, sillysally. I've seen this product mentioned back in the Spring but never went after the details. Think I'll have a read with cup of Egg Nog 'round Midnight.
   
  Also, I'm trying very hard to place your avatar with the reference "sillysally." Is that a pix of someone famous? Who referred to his woman as "sillysally??" We be curious...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for lifting us up, sillysally. I've seen this product mentioned back in the Spring but never went after the details. Think I'll have a read with cup of Egg Nog 'round Midnight.
> 
> Also, I'm trying very hard to place your avatar with the reference "sillysally." Is that a pix of someone famous? Who referred to his woman as "sillysally??" We be curious...


 

 Yes the Realiser is a great bargain considering what you would pay to get great sound system's and room acoustics that I now have on a SD card. The Realiser was developed by the same guy that developed DTS, Stephen Smyth, Ph.D.  
When I first heard about it, I thought it was to good to be true, But after at lot of research and playing the devil's advocate on the forum I link to in my last post I can say this is for real.
   
  Can't verify for sure he did in fact say "sillysally" but that is what I have heard. And yes it is a famous or infamous man.
  I was contacted by a relation of his because of my avatar but they could not confirm it.
   
  ss


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes the Realiser is a great bargain considering what you would pay to get great sound system's and room acoustics that I now have on a SD card. The Realiser was developed by the same guy that developed DTS, Stephen Smyth, Ph.D.
> When I first heard about it, I thought it was to good to be true, But after at lot of research and playing the devil's advocate on the forum I link to in my last post I can say this is for real.
> 
> Can't verify for sure he did in fact say "sillysally" but that is what I have heard. And yes it is a famous or infamous man.
> ...


 

 Who it is?


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Audiogalore, very nice pics!
> 
> How do you like your w4s dac with your woo?


 


  I do not have a "w4s DAC!


----------



## dmac03

Haha, simple mistake. sorry. It was meant to be directed toward windycitycy.
   
  Speaking of windy city...my wife and I are going to take off to Chicago for a small weekend getaway. Can anyone recommend some nice hi-fi shops in the Chicago area?


----------



## WindyCityCy

This is for dmac03.  Enjoy the weekend in Chicago.  I moved to San Jose from Wrigleyville about 5 years ago.  Really miss walking out my front door and having the cubs and Lake Michigan a pitching wedge away.  Well the lake was more like a John Daly drive.
   
  I really like the W4S DAC.  It replaced a PS Audio DL3 with Cullen 4 mods (actually the DL3 is still in my main stereo setup for now).  I don't hear much of a difference when using the Touch as a source playing FLAC and outputting to the WA22 (both DACs sound excellent to me).  However, I also needed a way to control my Klein and Hummel powered monitors and the W4S with the digital volume control gives me exactly what I needed for that usage.  Also, the W4S USB input is supposed to be much better than the DL3's.  Honestly I haven't spent enough time to comment on how much better it may be as I mostly listen using the Touch as the source instead of my laptop.  I'm hoping to get an iMac someday so might end up using the USB input more in the future.  I would buy the W4S again if I was in the market.  It sounds wonderful and is very versatile.  That said, the DL3 is a really good DAC if you don't need a volume control.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Who it is?


 

 X2


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Haha, simple mistake. sorry. It was meant to be directed toward windycitycy.
> 
> Speaking of windy city...my wife and I are going to take off to Chicago for a small weekend getaway. Can anyone recommend some nice hi-fi shops in the Chicago area?


 


  If you're staying downtown, go to Audio Consultants.  Great store.


----------



## mikemalter

Good golly, $415 for a pair of Tung-Sol on ebay and there are 30 minutes left to bid and the price can still go up.


----------



## Xcalibur255

There haven't been many listed lately so the wolves are getting hungry.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm curious what the unmatched quads that are listed right now will end at. 
   
  This is why I bit the bullet and bought a pair, because the price is going to keep climbing on these given the uniqueness of the market.  What I would truly like to see is a re-issue.  EML or Fullmusic ought to be able to analyze their electrical properties and create something with modern materials that sounds comparable.  In fact I keep hearing the Full Music / Sophia 6SN7 is a great tube in its own right but I won't try one due to the ST glass shape.  They would physically touch the rectifier with the height the adapters add.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Good golly, $415 for a pair of Tung-Sol on ebay and there are 30 minutes left to bid and the price can still go up.


 
   
  Doubtful if we'll see many more NOS TSRP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just like Blackgate and many other boutique parts.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Good golly, $415 for a pair of Tung-Sol on ebay and there are 30 minutes left to bid and the price can still go up.


 


  If were we looking at the same pair, then they went for $625!!!


----------



## balderon

OUCH!
   
  I'd like to buy the NOS quad's but who has a grand to spare these days....


----------



## grokit

I just had an offer accepted and paid for a couple that fit my budget, an "excellent" used pair with 80% life for $250 shipped from (I think) a reputable seller, I hope I got the right ones and I hope I love them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?accstube&1293081227


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I just had an offer accepted and paid for a couple that fit my budget, an "excellent" used pair with 80% life for $250 shipped from (I think) a reputable seller, I hope I got the right ones and I hope I love them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great price indeed! If the description is accurate you got the right ones. I'm sure you'll enjoy them.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Who it is?


 




  Quote: 





silent one said:


> X2


 
_P. T. Barnum_ (1810–1891)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> If were we looking at the same pair, then they went for $625!!!


 


 Yep, that was them.  I have seen them go for around $350 or so.  These guys that bid up that high were new accounts.  There will be more.  I can wait.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I just had an offer accepted and paid for a couple that fit my budget, an "excellent" used pair with 80% life for $250 shipped from (I think) a reputable seller, I hope I got the right ones and I hope I love them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Audiogon, yes of course.  Need to keep looking there.  Should have thought of them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> _P. T. Barnum_ (1810–1891)


 

 Would've never guessed! Thanks for the diversion. My mind is now refreshed. My focus on obtaining EML glass was getting intense...


----------



## Skylab

Audiogon is a better place to buy premium tubes than EBay.  You can score great prices on EBay for NOS tubes that are not so popular - it's a great place to get 6AS7G's, for example.  But for the rarer and pricier stuff - Audiogon is better.  You rarely get ultra-bargains, but you're also likely to see realistic prices.  And of course, most stuff is not on auction.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Audiogon, yes of course.  Need to keep looking there.  Should have thought of them.


 

 I just Googled the tube, and the Audiogon listing was among the first few results that came up. I didn't look there originally, and was actually undecided for 4-5 days before placing my offer. It was the price of the $600+ NOS pair that sold earlier today that got me off the fence lol. The seller ate around $15 in postage and PayPal fees on the offer but got their asking price. It looks like the listing lasted 10 days.


----------



## MuppetFace

Hello fellow Woo enthusiasts!
   
  My WA22 finally arrived, and I've been marveling at how solidly this behemoth is constructed. I've encountered an issue with one of my tubes, unfortunately. The problem is with one of the Sylvania 7236 NOS tubes I was sent. It's producing a very audible humming noise in whichever channel it's feeding. This is also causing the music to be skewed to the other channel.
   
  When I replace the Sylvanias with the GEs, the humming is gone. However I much prefer the extra power of the Sylvanias. Is it possible the tube is bad or damaged from shipping? I've tried cleaning it to make sure the dust is gone, but it doesn't seem to be doing any good. Maybe I need to scrub the prongs with something abrasive?


----------



## Audiogalore

Sound definitely like a tube issue and I am sure Jack will take care of matter. Remember once tube issue has been resolved try your K1000 and give some feedback.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Sound definitely like a tube issue and I am sure Jack will take care of matter. Remember once tube issue has been resolved try your K1000 and give some feedback.


 

 Jack's a great guy. He's sending me a replacement.
   
  I did try the K1000 with the stock GE tubes instead of the Sylvania.... yuck. I know the bass light version lacks bass obviously, but it sounded like sheet metal. I'll try it again once I've let the amp run for another few hours, but I really think it's mostly the stock tubes not sounding very nice with it.


----------



## jc9394

Try to get a hold of Tung Sol 5998, it has most gain.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Jack's a great guy. He's sending me a replacement.
> 
> I did try the K1000 with the stock GE tubes instead of the Sylvania.... yuck. I know the bass light version lacks bass obviously, but it sounded like sheet metal. I'll try it again once I've let the amp run for another few hours, but I really think it's mostly the stock tubes not sounding very nice with it.


 
   
  Interesting.  I can't listen to the Sylvania's in my WA22 and prefer the RCA's over them.  However it could be that the dynamics of my headphone add to the mix.  I have a pair of HD800's and they seem to be sharper up top and with the Sylvania's in there seems to be an emphasis on the top end.  Even with the Sophia + RCA's in there, it was borderline for me.  Putting in an EML really tamed it.
   
  I can see though with a pair of K1000's the Sylvania would be better and the RCS's not so much.
   
  Congratulations on your WA22, it's a great amp, and Jack is the best.


----------



## MuppetFace

Just to clarify, right now I'm using: EML 5U4G, Treasure CV181-Z, and GE 6080. 
  Source: Cambridge 840C in balanced configuration.
  Headphones: LCD-2, Ed. 8, Ed. 9, K1000, DX1000, W1000x, HD650, K240 Sextett MP
   
  The sound right now is nice in some ways, but less than pleasing in others. The soundstage is wide open and instrument placement is spot on. Midrange is liquid and enjoyable. The bass however is a bit woolly on bass heavy 'phones, and the top end is too shrill on just about everything except the Sextett.
   
  It's only been running for 3 hours, so I'm guessing burn in will improve these qualities?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Just to clarify, right now I'm using: EML 5U4G, Treasure CV181-Z, and GE 6080.
> Source: Cambridge 840C in balanced configuration.
> Headphones: LCD-2, Ed. 8, Ed. 9, K1000, DX1000, W1000x, HD650, K240 Sextett MP
> 
> ...


 


  I've got almost the same configuration right now except I'm using the GEC 6080s.  I don't hear any of the negative things you mentioned.  There are gobs of detail and nothing sounds harsh at all.
   
  As for the 7236s someone mentioned above... I have a pair of Tung-Sols and although they provide great sound with a lot of power, the GEC 6080s take off some of the sharpness and present an overall smoother and more enjoyable sound.


----------



## jc9394

how many hours you have on the tubes? 
   
  eml 5u4g needs around 80 hours
  treasures needs around 200 hours
  not sure on the GE 6080 but my GEC 6080 needs around 100 hours
   
  if your tubes are new, give it times to burn in.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> how many hours you have on the tubes?
> 
> eml 5u4g needs around 80 hours
> treasures needs around 200 hours
> ...


 

 Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I was thinking it was an issue of the tubes being too new.
   
  I'm sure all the issues I mentioned will be gone by the end of the week.


----------



## jc9394

Try to get a hold of GEC 6080 or 6AS7G, they are *THE* power tubes for WA22.


----------



## MuppetFace

It's also possible _some_ of the brightness I'm hearing could be from the 840C, which is a little on the bright side of neutral for some people.
   
  Any suggestions for tubes that might counter a bright source?
   
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try to get a hold of GEC 6080 or 6AS7G, they are *THE* power tubes for WA22.


 

 Thanks, I'll keep an eye out.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Just to clarify, right now I'm using: EML 5U4G, Treasure CV181-Z, and GE 6080.
> Source: Cambridge 840C in balanced configuration.
> Headphones: LCD-2, Ed. 8, Ed. 9, K1000, DX1000, W1000x, HD650, K240 Sextett MP
> 
> ...


 

 I am running with the EML and Treasures and we share HD650's.
   
  The top end sounded shrill to me too when I used the upgraded Sylvania 7236's.  It's got better after I put back the RCA 6080's.  Not sure about how equivelant the GE and RCA 6080's are, but I am thinking they are similiar.
   
  With regard to burn in, give your setup about a week to smooth out.  I've heard people say that it takes at least 50 hours to burn in the EML and the Treasures even longer.  However the basic sonic signature you are hearing is the foundation of the Woo sound.  Bass should tighten up a bit too.
   
  Do you have balanced inputs?  What about your 'phones?  Do you have balanced connectors?  I'm using the Cardas cord with balanced connectors on my HD800's.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Do you have balanced inputs?  What about your 'phones?  Do you have balanced connectors?  I'm using the Cardas cord with balanced connectors on my HD800's.


 

 Thanks for the info! Yeah, I'm going to definitely let the tubes cook for a week or so. My source is balanced, and a few headphones I'm using have balanced connectors (HD650, L3000, Ed. 8) which are from Moon Audio. Then there's the K1000. The rest of the headphones are single-ended, but the source is still balanced for what that's worth.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks for the info! Yeah, I'm going to definitely let the tubes cook for a week or so. My source is balanced, and a few headphones I'm using have balanced connectors (HD650, L3000, Ed. 8) which are from Moon Audio. Then there's the K1000. The rest of the headphones are single-ended, but the source is still balanced for what that's worth.


 

 Haven't done any testing with single ended vs. balanced, but I have heard here and from Jack that having a balanced source will get the most from the amp.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try to get a hold of GEC 6080 or 6AS7G, they are *THE* power tubes for WA22.


 


 Who is a good source?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

GE (note that is NOT the same as GEC) 6080's are bright and lack bass.  The 7236 will be better, but I agree what you really want is a 5998 if you want punch, or a GEC 6AS7G (not a 6080). The 5998 is becoming harder to get, but it's easier to get than the elusive GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> GE (note that is NOT the same as GEC) 6080's are bright and lack bass.  The 7236 will be better, but I agree what you really want is a 5998 if you want punch, or a GEC 6AS7G (not a 6080). The 5998 is becoming harder to get, but it's easier to get than the elusive GEC 6AS7G.


 


  Ii have the GE6080 but I never tried.  The TS5998 gives you the most punch, it is very good with HD800 but not so much with DX1000 or D7000 plus it has too much gain that I can barely turn the volume pass 9 o'clock.  The GEC 6AS7G is getting really hard to track down and the price is getting close to TS BGRP.  The GEC6080, my second flavor which is around 85% of GEC6AS7G can have for a 1/3 of the price and much easier to a a hold of.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> GE (note that is NOT the same as GEC) 6080's are bright and lack bass.  The 7236 will be better, but I agree what you really want is a 5998 if you want punch, or a GEC 6AS7G (not a 6080). The 5998 is becoming harder to get, but it's easier to get than the elusive GEC 6AS7G.


 

 Thanks for the info, it really helps! Would 7236 Cetron NOS be a reasonable alternative?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> Thanks for the info, it really helps! Would 7236 Cetron NOS be a reasonable alternative?


 

 Potentially even better.  Cetron tubes were essential Tung-Sol, and many people (including me) prefer the Tung-Sol 7236 over the Sylvania. But you would want a pair - not advisable to mix and match brands.


----------



## MuppetFace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Potentially even better.  Cetron tubes were essential Tung-Sol, and many people (including me) prefer the Tung-Sol 7236 over the Sylvania. But you would want a pair - not advisable to mix and match brands.


 

 I found a pair of the Cetron 1983 NOS. Since they're the same as Tung-Sol more or less, I suppose I'll go ahead and place an order. Thanks for the advice again.
   
  These GE tubes I'm using are bumming me out.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> I found a pair of the Cetron 1983 NOS. Since they're the same as Tung-Sol more or less, I suppose I'll go ahead and place an order. Thanks for the advice again.
> 
> These GE tubes I'm using are bumming me out.


 

 When you get them, please post your impressions.  As I get a baseline with my EML for what to listen for, I'm going to want to look at power tubes.


----------



## avsBuddy

Does anyone know what version of Alps volume pots Woo uses in their amps?
   
  I'm trying to decide whether it's worth upgrading to a stepped attenuator. I've heard that previous versions of the DACT attenuator had quite a bit of play in each "step". Is this still the case in the newer version that Woo uses or are the volume steps crisp in their feel?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If you only have the thin bottle RCA 6EW7 I recommend you try a pair of the fat bottle 6EW7.  They tend to sound more open than the thin bottle version.  I think maybe a Raytheon 6EW7 big bottle in the clear top might suit you too.  I thought it was bass shy, but it should have a bit more on the bottom end than the Sylvania does while staying airy at the top.  The Sylvanias are usually the best with treble so anything else is going to be a compromise in that region in exchange for better bass.  I never liked my Raytheon 6EW7 in the past, but the EML rectifier completely changed my opinion of it for the better.  Mine were made in Japan too so I may be hearing something different than the usual US made tubes too.  In either case try to find old vintages, early 60's or if possible late 50's.  The latter are really hard to come by unfortunately.  You'll know if you found an early RCA in this tube family because the big triode section will be black and shaped like a cross.  All the later verions from the 60's onward are flat and gray.


 

 Thanks for the good information; SillySally also recommended RCA fat bottle 6EW7s; I haven't been able to find any yet.  I'll keep looking, and also for the Raytheon.  I'm guessing if I find these anywhere they will be a bit more expensive than my Sylvanias; One pair of the Sylvania 6EW7 big bottles came with my WA6SE originally, and I purchased an identical pair for $10.00.  Strange, but they are my favorite tubes so far, with the EML 5U4G.  That sound, with a little more bass impact, would be what I'm going for.
   
  Any suggestions as to where to look for the RCA and Raytheon big bottle 6EW7s?


----------



## tink97

Just wanted to post, that I have joined the woo family!  Just ordered a stock WA2 and super excited to get!
   
  Have a great day all
   
  tink97


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try to get a hold of GEC 6080 or 6AS7G, they are *THE* power tubes for WA22.


 

 They don't have the gain of the 7236/5998 though, and that seems to be a priority for MuppetFace.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Just wanted to post, that I have joined the woo family!  Just ordered a stock WA2 and super excited to get!
> 
> Have a great day all
> 
> tink97


 

 Yes, we're all one big happy family. Pleasant exchanges exist to help you on your way to achieve sonic bliss and enhanced your knowledge of the Woo. And the demise of your wallet--or maybe not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Congratulations and welcome!!!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Does anyone know what version of Alps volume pots Woo uses in their amps?
> 
> I'm trying to decide whether it's worth upgrading to a stepped attenuator. I've heard that previous versions of the DACT attenuator had quite a bit of play in each "step". Is this still the case in the newer version that Woo uses or are the volume steps crisp in their feel?


 

 Woo uses the lower end ALPS (20 i think) pot, however they did have the very high end Alps RK 50 as a upgrade. The only problem with the RK50 is it is very large and in my WA5LE Woo had to modify the Amp to fit the RK50 in.imo with a Amp like my WA5LE its the right way to go, because this amp is such a power house and I can really fine tune the volume and it doesn't over heat.
   
  I do have a step attenuator in my WA6SE and for that amp its very nice, but I much prefer the Alps RK50.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Thanks for the good information; SillySally also recommended RCA fat bottle 6EW7s;


 

 Actually its the RCA fat bottle chrome top 6EW7. 1963 would be the best but any 60's built RCA chrome top will work just fine. Good match for the EML 5U4G.
   
  ss


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Thanks for the good information; SillySally also recommended RCA fat bottle 6EW7s; I haven't been able to find any yet.  I'll keep looking, and also for the Raytheon.  I'm guessing if I find these anywhere they will be a bit more expensive than my Sylvanias; One pair of the Sylvania 6EW7 big bottles came with my WA6SE originally, and I purchased an identical pair for $10.00.  Strange, but they are my favorite tubes so far, with the EML 5U4G.  That sound, with a little more bass impact, would be what I'm going for.
> 
> Any suggestions as to where to look for the RCA and Raytheon big bottle 6EW7s?


 


  The prices are on the high side but TubeWorld stocks them from time to time.  He seems to be under the impression that Woo owners want the thin bottle 6EW7 because that is what is always listed there where as the fat bottles tend to be sold out.  I found my favorite 6FD7 fat bottle tube there though so it is worth keeping an eye out.  Otherwise check eBay once a week or so, sometimes things pop up but it is harder to find matched pairs there.
   
  The easiest way is to use vacuumtubes.net but because they deal in such bulk the quality/vintage can be a crapshoot with cheap tubes like these.  They have the largest inventory though so that is probably the best bet.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> It's also possible _some_ of the brightness I'm hearing could be from the 840C, which is a little on the bright side of neutral for some people.
> 
> *Any suggestions for tubes that might counter a bright source?*


 

 You could use a Hytron or JAN RCA 5692 brown base or red base in the 6SN7 sockets, and that might help - I found them to help tame Grados nicely in a Dark Voice 336i amp before.  My Sylvania VT-231 and Sylvania Bad Boy or RCA grey glass VT-231 were noticeably brighter.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The prices are on the high side but TubeWorld stocks them from time to time.  He seems to be under the impression that Woo owners want the thin bottle 6EW7 because that is what is always listed there where as the fat bottles tend to be sold out.  I found my favorite 6FD7 fat bottle tube there though so it is worth keeping an eye out.  Otherwise check eBay once a week or so, sometimes things pop up but it is harder to find matched pairs there.
> 
> The easiest way is to use vacuumtubes.net but because they deal in such bulk the quality/vintage can be a crapshoot with cheap tubes like these.  They have the largest inventory though so that is probably the best bet.


 

 When you deal with vacuumtubes.net, how do you find a tube by brand?  I looked through their price list and its all numbers.  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Has anyone compared the Tung Sol 6SN7 NOS with the new release?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> When you deal with vacuumtubes.net, how do you find a tube by brand?  I looked through their price list and its all numbers.  Thanks.


 

 Email them.  They're pretty accommodating.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Email them.  They're pretty accommodating.


 

 Will do, thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> When you deal with vacuumtubes.net, how do you find a tube by brand?  I looked through their price list and its all numbers.  Thanks.


 

 [size=13.1944px]Contacted Roy Rogalski (owner) - no search capability by brand on site; email & phone inquiries only.[/size]


----------



## Skylab

That is vacuumtubes.com, which is different from vacuumtubes.net.  I have never bought from vacuumtubes.com - any good?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That is vacuumtubes.com, which is different from vacuumtubes.net.  I have never bought from vacuumtubes.com - any good?


 
  Good catch, just woke up late on the West coast. Now I'm focused! One transaction to date and found him helpful - the product satisfied. In this hobby one can benefit from more than a single source (or cartel). Will check out vacuumtubes.net to see what I think.
  
  Contacted Roy Rogalski (co-owner) - no search capability by brand on site; email & phone inquiries only.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Navigate the left-hand column (Tube index). Select and brands will appear by category. See link for example of 6SN7/5692 Tubes: http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html
> Bought a pair of Raytheons from him - he was fair and prompt.


 

 There is no link labeled Tube index.  Can you please tell me the exact text of the link?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In this hobby one can benefit from more than a single source (or cartel).


 

 THAT is the truth!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Actually its the RCA fat bottle chrome top 6EW7. 1963 would be the best but any 60's built RCA chrome top will work just fine. Good match for the EML 5U4G.


 
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The prices are on the high side but TubeWorld stocks them from time to time.  He seems to be under the impression that Woo owners want the thin bottle 6EW7 because that is what is always listed there where as the fat bottles tend to be sold out.  I found my favorite 6FD7 fat bottle tube there though so it is worth keeping an eye out.  Otherwise check eBay once a week or so, sometimes things pop up but it is harder to find matched pairs there.
> 
> The easiest way is to use vacuumtubes.net but because they deal in such bulk the quality/vintage can be a crapshoot with cheap tubes like these.  They have the largest inventory though so that is probably the best bet.


 

 Thanks again for the info; actually, I contacted Woo Audio and they currently have the Raytheon big bottle 6EW7s, so I ordered a pair ($18.00 including shipping).  They're supposedly matched.  I'll check vacuumtubes.net, and keep my eyes open for the RCAs.  
   
  I have a pair of Pinnacle 6DR7s that I tried, and they do have more gain (9 o'clock on the volume control is really pushing it, unless it's an older recording) and more bass, but turning the volume up while paused between tracks reveals a faint hum, which gets louder after the amp has been running for an hour or two.  I really can't hear it with music playing, but I'd rather use a tube that makes no noise at all, even after several hours of play, and with the volume up far beyond any sane listening level.  My 6EW7s are that quiet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> There is no link labeled Tube index.  Can you please tell me the exact text of the link?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Sorry about the mix up. Skylab correctly pointed out that I referred you to vacuumtubes.com instead of vacuumtubes.net. On the previous page I noted that I contacted the co-owner (Roy) and there is no search capability on his site by brand name. Email & phone inquiries only.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sorry about the mix up. Skylab correctly pointed out that I referred you to vacuumtubes.com instead of vacuumtubes.net. On the previous page I noted that I contacted the co-owner (Roy) and there is no search capability on his site by brand name. Email & phone inquiries only.


 

 Ok, no problem.  Thanks for clairifying.


----------



## avsBuddy

Guys, do you will that getting a better set of tubes for either WA6 or WA2 gives better bang for the buck than a Black Gate caps upgrade? I'm leaning towards getting DACT attenuator upgrade ( I hate when channels were out of balance on low volume settings) and contemplating whether I should spend the rest of upgrade $$ on BG or tubes. Supposedly WA2 at least, already has quality parts.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Guys, do you will that getting a better set of tubes for either WA6 or WA2 gives better bang for the buck than a Black Gate caps upgrade? I'm leaning towards getting DACT attenuator upgrade ( I hate when channels were out of balance on low volume settings) and contemplating whether I should spend the rest of upgrade $$ on BG or tubes. Supposedly WA2 at least, already has quality parts.


 


 I personally would go with the parts upgrade since you can upgrade tubes easily at any time.


----------



## hodgjy

Since we're talking about tube venders, I've had great luck with Alex at http://www.electrontube.com/.  It's been my experience that his inventory is a lot more extensive that what is listed on the webpage.  I've emailed him several times before and have been shocked at what tubes he had in stock (along with the good prices).


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> [size=13.1944px]Contacted Roy Rogalski (owner) - no search capability by brand on site; email & phone inquiries only.[/size]


 


 If you specify brands or other specifics with the "no substitutes allowed" box checked when using the online order form they will accommodate the request if possible as well.  Another option for those who don't like phone ordering.
   
  I spoke to them on the phone once and was told they prefer not to look for specific brands or vintages on these tubes because they are so cheap (I believe $6 for a 6EW7) that the time spent looking means they make no money on the sale.  However, if you specify exactly what you want on the website form you'll get it if they have it in stock, so sometimes I guess the human touch is not the better route.


----------



## che15

skylab said:


> That is vacuumtubes.com, which is different from vacuumtubes.net.  I have never bought from vacuumtubes.com - any good?







 Terrible service, he makes you feel as you are bothering him when you call to ask if he has any tubes in stock.
 This happened to me a couple of times . I really do not what this guys deal is.
 Will never call them again . Even if he has the last tube of which ever kind I need.


----------



## hodgjy

I've tried this route before, and it was unsuccessful.  I emailed Roy and asked him if he had JAN CRC 6AS7G RCA black plate tubes.  I was told they did.  I ordered online and used the "no substitutes allowed" to order three of them.  All I can say is that I did not get the requested tubes.  Heck, they weren't even black plates.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you specify brands or other specifics with the "no substitutes allowed" box checked when using the online order form they will accommodate the request if possible as well.  Another option for those who don't like phone ordering.
> 
> I spoke to them on the phone once and was told they prefer not to look for specific brands or vintages on these tubes because they are so cheap (I believe $6 for a 6EW7) that the time spent looking means they make no money on the sale.  However, if you specify exactly what you want on the website form you'll get it if they have it in stock, so sometimes I guess the human touch is not the better route.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've tried this route before, and it was unsuccessful.  I emailed Roy and asked him if he had JAN CRC 6AS7G RCA black plate tubes.  I was told they did.  I ordered online and used the "no substitutes allowed" to order three of them.  All I can say is that I did not get the requested tubes.  Heck, they weren't even black plates.


 

 Really glad you guys are here.  It's good to hear about vendors good and bad so you know who to avoid.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've tried this route before, and it was unsuccessful.  I emailed Roy and asked him if he had JAN CRC 6AS7G RCA black plate tubes.  I was told they did.  I ordered online and used the "no substitutes allowed" to order three of them.  All I can say is that I did not get the requested tubes.  Heck, they weren't even black plates.


 


  So experiences may vary.  That's good to know.  I only web ordered once but I did receive what I asked for, except for a tung sol tube they didn't have.  In that case they simply didn't send a tube for that one and didn't charge anything, rather than try to send an equivalent.


----------



## musicman59

I switched my driver tubes last night in my WA5-LE. Placed in a pair od NOS gray glass 6SN7GT. Wow! what a nice midrange. The bass and high frqeuncies are pretty good but the clariy and texture of the midrange is just incredible. I was listening to some music from America and the tones of the acoustic guitars and the voices of Dewey Bunnell, Gerry Beckley and Dan Peek sounded so real and textured. I was able to hear their voice cords vibrating. Even in my Edition 9 the soundstage presentation was big and 3 dimensional. These are great tubes!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I switched my driver tubes last night in my WA5-LE. Placed in a pair od NOS gray glass 6SN7GT. Wow! what a nice midrange. The bass and high frqeuncies are pretty good but the clariy and texture of the midrange is just incredible. I was listening to some music from America and the tones of the acoustic guitars and the voices of Dewey Bunnell, Gerry Beckley and Dan Peek sounded so real and textured. I was able to hear their voice cords vibrating. Even in my Edition 9 the soundstage presentation was big and 3 dimensional. These are great tubes!


 

 Are those are the RCA Smoked Glass tubes?


----------



## musicman59

I guess people call them different way. I think the true "smoke glass" have a gray translucent glass like these.

   
  Mine are the "solid grey glass with the vertical stripes". They are similar to these but the lettering on mine is almost gone.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Actually its the RCA fat bottle chrome top 6EW7. 1963 would be the best but any 60's built RCA chrome top will work just fine. Good match for the EML 5U4G.
> 
> ss


 
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The prices are on the high side but TubeWorld stocks them from time to time.  He seems to be under the impression that Woo owners want the thin bottle 6EW7 because that is what is always listed there where as the fat bottles tend to be sold out.  I found my favorite 6FD7 fat bottle tube there though so it is worth keeping an eye out.  Otherwise check eBay once a week or so, sometimes things pop up but it is harder to find matched pairs there.
> 
> The easiest way is to use vacuumtubes.net but because they deal in such bulk the quality/vintage can be a crapshoot with cheap tubes like these.  They have the largest inventory though so that is probably the best bet.


 

 As I posted earlier, I was able to get a pair of Raytheon big bottle 6EW7s from Woo Audio; $18.00 for the pair including shipping.
   
  One of the sites that came up during a Google search for the RCA tubes was www.electrontube.com.  Hodgjy had posted earlier about them. I contacted several places mentioned here earlier, and this was the only place that replied saying they had them in stock; they are RCA big bottle 6EW7 chrome tops, for $8.50 each, and they will test them to find a closely matched pair for an additional $3.00 per tube.  I also have a pair of these on the way.
   
  If either of these pairs can improve upon the Sylvania 6EW7 / EML 5U4G combo by adding a bit more bottom end, I'll be extremely happy, especially at these prices.


----------



## mikemalter

This has been very helpful.  Thank you.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I guess people call them different way. I think the true "smoke glass" have a gray translucent glass like these.
> 
> 
> Mine are the "solid grey glass with the vertical stripes". They are similar to these but the lettering on mine is almost gone.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Mike, if you go after a pair you want the ones on the bottom.  Try to find a pair from 1944 or 1945 (anything before that is super rare for this tube), if you take your time it isn't that hard to find this vintage.  The greyglass types where you can partially see through the coating don't sound as good.  I have both and the difference isn't subtle.  The ones with the solid grey RF coating are the best of the RCA 6SN7 tubes.  Very nice midrange timbre and well resolved with satisfying drive, but I find the top end to be their weak point.  They aren't open enough at the top for my tastes.  Definitely a worthy tube to have in your collection though.
   
  The ones with the translucent grey coating don't sound bad per se, but if you are after clarity and resolution they are not it.  They really lack drive too, just soft everywhere, but they are incredibly smooth and warm without sounding cottony.  If you can live without some of the micro detail and texture they make an awesome jazz tube, but the ones with the solid grey glass are better all around tube and work better for most genres of music.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> If either of these pairs can improve upon the Sylvania 6EW7 / EML 5U4G combo by adding a bit more bottom end, I'll be extremely happy, especially at these prices.


 

 Yes the RCA chrome top (there is a tip at the top of the tube also) should give you more lower end and a more realistic sound stage.
  I think I got a lot of 10 nos RCA for $24 on E-Bay.
  imo the RCA 6EW7 and EML 5U4G are about as good as it gets for the WA6SE.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes the RCA chrome top (there is a tip at the top of the tube also) should give you more lower end and a more realistic sound stage.
> I think I got a lot of 10 nos RCA for $24 on E-Bay.
> imo the RCA 6EW7 and EML 5U4G are about as good as it gets for the WA6SE.


 
   
  That's good to hear; I'm anxious to get these and try them out.
   
  I just spent a couple of hours listening with the EML and Sylvania 6EW7s (Mark Knopfler, Bruce Hornsby) and it seems to me that the bass and the midrange warmth and detail improve a bit after the amp has been on for an hour.  
   
  I guess it's also possible that some of the improvement is from the EML 5U4G settling in, too; it has only 20-25 hours on it so far.  I have not put the Sophia Princess back in since I got the EML.


----------



## mikemalter

Is this for a WA22?  I'm having problems keeping all these tubes straight.
  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> That's good to hear; I'm anxious to get these and try them out.
> 
> I just spent a couple of hours listening with the EML and Sylvania 6EW7s (Mark Knopfler, Bruce Hornsby) and it seems to me that the bass and the midrange warmth and detail improve a bit after the amp has been on for an hour.
> 
> I guess it's also possible that some of the improvement is from the EML 5U4G settling in, too; it has only 20-25 hours on it so far.  I have not put the Sophia Princess back in since I got the EML.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Mike, if you go after a pair you want the ones on the bottom.  Try to find a pair from 1944 or 1945 (anything before that is super rare for this tube), if you take your time it isn't that hard to find this vintage.  The greyglass types where you can partially see through the coating don't sound as good.  I have both and the difference isn't subtle.  The ones with the solid grey RF coating are the best of the RCA 6SN7 tubes.  Very nice midrange timbre and well resolved with satisfying drive, but I find the top end to be their weak point.  They aren't open enough at the top for my tastes.  Definitely a worthy tube to have in your collection though.
> 
> The ones with the translucent grey coating don't sound bad per se, but if you are after clarity and resolution they are not it.  They really lack drive too, just soft everywhere, but they are incredibly smooth and warm without sounding cottony.  If you can live without some of the micro detail and texture they make an awesome jazz tube, but the ones with the solid grey glass are better all around tube and work better for most genres of music.


 


 This is very helpful.  Jack says he has some of the RCA's, what he calls the smoke glass drivers and I am thinking they are the bottom pair.  However he is quoting me a price of $280 a pair.  What do you think of that price?  I'm thinking of bidding on a pair on ebay that look like the ones on the bottom photograph, and I don't think they will be nearly as expensive as with Jack (although you never know on an ebay bid.).
   
  I am a jazz guy, and am sensitive to too much on the high end.  I just got an EML which replaced a Sophia and I found the Sophia leans to harsh.  So something that is not as open as say the Treasures would fit my tastes (especially with an HD800).
   
  Back to price.  Since I don't actually know what I am doing yet, maybe it would be better to spend more with Jack and be safe.  So do you think Jack's pricing is a good deal?  Also where did you get your RCAs?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wow.  That is really high.  I got my pair off eBay for just over $50 bucks.  The trick to these is to watch auctions carefully.  Sometimes if they word the description strangely or cannot prove the tubes are NOS the auction will be largely ignored.  When I was watching this tube most auctions for the good tubes were ending around the hundred dollar mark, but sometimes you get lucky and they end lower like mine did.  What other tubes are selling at the time also matters a LOT.  If you are bidding in a greyglass pair and they are the only ones listed at the time it will be bid on by every person on eBay who is looking for that kind of tube.  But if there are several auctions for greyglass going on at the same time it spreads the interest around and everybody ends up bidding less aggressively as a result.
   
  Either way the max I would ever pay for a pair of these is $100, unless they were pre-1944 and in absolutely pristine condition.  Don't be afraid to compromise a bit.  For example if they test a bit below NOS they'll go really cheap and so long as the tube was tested properly it likely will have nearly all of its usable life left still.  They generally last for several thousand hours, and in the Woo amps even longer so they will give years of service even if they aren't true NOS tubes.  I think of it has not having to deal with breaking them in personally.


----------



## grokit

Yeah I am all about <slightly> used tubes, and seconds when available as long as they test good and are well matched. This NOS stuff gets a little ridiculous, and it will only get worse IMO.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Wow.  That is really high.  I got my pair off eBay for just over $50 bucks.  The trick to these is to watch auctions carefully.  Sometimes if they word the description strangely or cannot prove the tubes are NOS the auction will be largely ignored.  When I was watching this tube most auctions for the good tubes were ending around the hundred dollar mark, but sometimes you get lucky and they end lower like mine did.  What other tubes are selling at the time also matters a LOT.  If you are bidding in a greyglass pair and they are the only ones listed at the time it will be bid on by every person on eBay who is looking for that kind of tube.  But if there are several auctions for greyglass going on at the same time it spreads the interest around and everybody ends up bidding less aggressively as a result.
> 
> Either way the max I would ever pay for a pair of these is $100, unless they were pre-1944 and in absolutely pristine condition.  Don't be afraid to compromise a bit.  For example if they test a bit below NOS they'll go really cheap and so long as the tube was tested properly it likely will have nearly all of its usable life left still.  They generally last for several thousand hours, and in the Woo amps even longer so they will give years of service even if they aren't true NOS tubes.  I think of it has not having to deal with breaking them in personally.


 

 Where are you with regard to how these guys sound in relation to the Tung-sol's?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've tried this route before, and it was unsuccessful.  I emailed Roy and asked him if he had JAN CRC 6AS7G RCA black plate tubes.  I was told they did.  I ordered online and used the "no substitutes allowed" to order three of them.  All I can say is that I did not get the requested tubes.  Heck, they weren't even black plates.


 

 Based on this Cat's feedback in this space, I think I'll walk! While he was pleasant during my conversation with him (Roy), I wasn't looking for tubes either. Just asking a general question... but now, why would I?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Where are you with regard to how these guys sound in relation to the Tung-sol's?


 

 The round plates I assume, right?  I'm actually kind of hesitant to compare because I was listening to the greyglass when my EML tube was still new.  I intend to pair that combo again here shortly and listen some more.  The round plate tung sol is in a league of its own though.  I had to recalibrate a bit to enjoy my other tubes again after taking them out.
   
  The presentation is quite different between the two.  The RCA exhibits a weight and thickness that contrasts sharply with the tung sol which comes off as sounding light and delicate.  The fascinating part is how the TS does this without sounding slow or feeling like it is lacking in drive.  There is a sense of finesse present that no other tube I've heard matches.  The detail comes in layers where you only hear a flat plane of sound with other tubes.  Tonally the greyglass RCA is more forward in the lower midrange, and has much less air from the upper midrange through the treble region.  High notes don't project like they do on the TS.  I think the TS midrange is more accurate, but the RCA suits some vocals well by lending added weight.  Both have nice detail and speed.  I think the RCA wins on PRAT by a little bit, but the TS has superior resolution and microdetail.  More than that it is all in how things are presented where the TS really excels.
   
  Truthfully its really hard to put into words what I want to say for comparison.  They sound very different, but explaining that in words is hard for some reason.  The tung sol is better, no question, but it is also way more expensive so it ought to be.  I want to mention again my impressions of the greyglass are not fresh either so take this with a grain of salt.  That, and I actually thought the greyglass RCA didn't have great synergy with my EML 274B.  The detail got better, and everything gained control but they suffered tonally.  The midrange loses much of the warmth this tube is known for, but again I think I need to break them in more and try again now that the EML has more hours on it.  I've found that rectifier synergy really matters a lot in general.  Some rectifiers I have which I wrote off as bad sounding have turned out to be pretty nice with different driver tubes paired up.  It's all about identifying the characteristics in a tube you like and trying to pair those up with a tube whose characteristics will be complementary.  Or you could just randomly try stuff and be surprised when a combo sounds good, like I've been doing for the most part.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I also have some t-plate tung sols which are more in the same league with the greyglass.  These are basically tung sol mouse ear tubes only they don't actually have the mouse ears.  If I had to pick one or the other I would take this tung-sol too, but again this really reminds me how much the rectifier can change things.  Without the EML my answer would be the opposite.  I really like how the greyglass RCA sounds on my 5R4GY (my previous regular use rectifier before the 274B) and thought the tung sol t-plates sounded detailed but dry and off sounding somehow.  The EML literally fixed everything I didn't like about those tung sol tubes, and took something away from the greyglass in terms of portraying emotion in the music in exchange.
   
  Something I would say in general is that I find myself just preferring the Tung Sol sound regardless of which particular tube it is.  They have a sense of balance and neutrality that I've come to prefer more and more over time.  Of course my EML is not losing its place in the rectifier slot on any long term basis, but I've been really surprised at how much I like the all Tung Sol combo I was running for the last few days (TS 5V4G and TS 6SN7GT T-Plate).
   
  In the end all you can do is try things out and see what you prefer.  What I like might not be what you like, and what headphones we're listening on is a huge x-factor too.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

For those who needs a pair of Glenn's adapter for their WA6SE may reach me .... I have two (2) kept in the box.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Is this for a WA22?  I'm having problems keeping all these tubes straight.


 

 No, a WA6SE.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yeah I am all about <slightly> used tubes, and seconds when available as long as they test good and are well matched. This NOS stuff gets a little ridiculous, and it will only get worse IMO.


 


  This is really a good strategy.  A lot of tubes that are sold as NOS really aren't anyway.  If you're going to buy a lot of tubes, and want to experiment, buying one of the less expensive tube testers, like my B&K 606, and then buying tubes that say "test as new"  or "test strong" can save you BUCKETS of money.  I have bought a fair number of "NOS" tubes, sure, but I buy them from known, super-trustworthy tube dealers.  On EBay, I won't pay the premium prices.  I buy tubes that I can get cheaper.  As long as they test good when I get them, then all is well, and if they don't, I have always been able to get a replacement or refund (that is the value of having the tester).


----------



## mikemalter

X - Your analysis of the TX vs RCA was very helpful to me, and I can relate to it.
   
  I also share your perspective about mating rectifiers with drivers, there is a strong relationship there.  I've often felt there was a relationship there.  As I am new to tube rolling, it's really helpful to get these perspectives from others.
   
  Maybe I could ask a few other questions, if you don't mind.
   
  I'm really liking the EML 5U4G, and am thinking of building my system around it.  My only comparison is the stock rectifier that Jack ships with the WA22 and the Sophia.  I found the Sophia to be edgier and less revealing of detail then the EML.  My current rectifiers are the Shuquanq Princess, and while better than the stock rectifier Jack sends, I am not sure where the Princess fits in the rectifier universe.  Where does the Princess fit in relation to the Tung-sol and RCA's?
   
  Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The round plates I assume, right?  I'm actually kind of hesitant to compare because I was listening to the greyglass when my EML tube was still new.  I intend to pair that combo again here shortly and listen some more.  The round plate tung sol is in a league of its own though.  I had to recalibrate a bit to enjoy my other tubes again after taking them out.
> 
> The presentation is quite different between the two.  The RCA exhibits a weight and thickness that contrasts sharply with the tung sol which comes off as sounding light and delicate.  The fascinating part is how the TS does this without sounding slow or feeling like it is lacking in drive.  There is a sense of finesse present that no other tube I've heard matches.  The detail comes in layers where you only hear a flat plane of sound with other tubes.  Tonally the greyglass RCA is more forward in the lower midrange, and has much less air from the upper midrange through the treble region.  High notes don't project like they do on the TS.  I think the TS midrange is more accurate, but the RCA suits some vocals well by lending added weight.  Both have nice detail and speed.  I think the RCA wins on PRAT by a little bit, but the TS has superior resolution and microdetail.  More than that it is all in how things are presented where the TS really excels.
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Where does the Princess fit in relation to the Tung-sol and RCA's?


 
   
  X2, I would love to read some comparative opinions on the Shunguang rectifiers as well, and please add the EML's to the mix


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2, I would love to read some comparative opinions on the Shunguang rectifiers as well, and please add the EML's to the mix


 

 X2, X2, X2, X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glad my rambling was useful.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sadly I never owned the Sophia Princess so I can't really offer a comparison there.  Before EML became popular it was often regarded as the tube to have for the Woo amps, and was considered better than the majority of the NOS tubes.  I'm just relaying secondhand opinions here though.  It's reputation for being forward sounding kept me away and I upgraded directly to the EML.  This was pretty much always my plan, so I was only using cheapo rectifiers until I could make the upgrade.  The RCA 5R4GY I paid $8 for served me well though I must say.
   
  The 6SN7 upgrade was really the key for me personally, as I'm finding that rectifiers I had a low opinion of before sound pretty nice now that I'm trying them again.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





skylab said:


> This is really a good strategy.  A lot of tubes that are sold as NOS really aren't anyway.  If you're going to buy a lot of tubes, and want to experiment, buying one of the less expensive tube testers, like my B&K 606, and then buying tubes that say "test as new"  or "test strong" can save you BUCKETS of money.  I have bought a fair number of "NOS" tubes, sure, but I buy them from known, super-trustworthy tube dealers.  On EBay, I won't pay the premium prices.  I buy tubes that I can get cheaper.  As long as they test good when I get them, then all is well, and if they don't, I have always been able to get a replacement or refund (that is the value of having the tester).


 

 I agree, that is for a guy like you that has a lot of experience and a very well calibrated tube tester and has a very good understanding on how to use the tube tester.
   
  But for most folks its not really a good idea, by the time you buy a well calibrated tube tester plus learn how to use it and 100s of tubes like you, you could have gotten the best of tubes for your amp and saved money. Plus the fact that if you really don't know what you are doing with tubes and adapters you run the risk of harming your amp.
  Also there is your source player/DAC and headphones to consider. More than likely these components will make a bigger impact on the sound quality than tubes.
   
  There is only so much you can change the tone of a tube amp with tubes. The better the tube amp and combination of tubes the better the sound, its that simple. There is no silver bullet tube that will make a $2000 amp sound like a $5000 amp.


----------



## Skylab

That's probably fair


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Wow.  That is really high.  I got my pair off eBay for just over $50 bucks.  The trick to these is to watch auctions carefully.  Sometimes if they word the description strangely or cannot prove the tubes are NOS the auction will be largely ignored.  When I was watching this tube most auctions for the good tubes were ending around the hundred dollar mark, but sometimes you get lucky and they end lower like mine did.  What other tubes are selling at the time also matters a LOT.  If you are bidding in a greyglass pair and they are the only ones listed at the time it will be bid on by every person on eBay who is looking for that kind of tube.  But if there are several auctions for greyglass going on at the same time it spreads the interest around and everybody ends up bidding less aggressively as a result.
> 
> Either way the max I would ever pay for a pair of these is $100, unless they were pre-1944 and in absolutely pristine condition.  Don't be afraid to compromise a bit.  For example if they test a bit below NOS they'll go really cheap and so long as the tube was tested properly it likely will have nearly all of its usable life left still.  They generally last for several thousand hours, and in the Woo amps even longer so they will give years of service even if they aren't true NOS tubes.  I think of it has not having to deal with breaking them in personally.


 
  You are right. I got mine for $90 the pair form a reputable source in ebay.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Glad my rambling was useful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So, is your thinking that the rectifier is the lynch pin of the amplifier?
   
  Have you or can anybody speak to the differences between the RCA VT231 and the Tung-Sol round plate?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

It is rainy day in Boston, working from home and I'm bored.  So perfect time to take some pics of my WA22 and her friends.  Hope you like it...


----------



## mikemalter

JC you are my HERO!  I am working my way towards having the same tubes as you.  Got the EML and am working on the Tung-sol and GEC's!
   
  Tell me, where did you get your WA22 modified?  How much did it cost, and what improvements did you hear?
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is rainy day in Boston, working from home and I'm bored.  So perfect time to take some pics of my WA22 and her friends.  Hope you like it...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> JC you are my HERO!  I am working my way towards having the same tubes as you.  Got the EML and am working on the Tung-sol and GEC's!
> 
> Tell me, where did you get your WA22 modified?  How much did it cost, and what improvements did you hear?


 
   
  I got my WA22 used, it was modded by Dannie01.  I can't give you a comparison since the time I listened to a stock WA22 and modded WA22 is over 6 months apart but I'm impress with it every time I turn it on.  From memory, I think the mid and more refine/smoother.  Slight bass extensions but the most I notice is the soundstage is wider and added depth.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I got my WA22 used, it was modded by Dannie01.  I can't give you a comparison since the time I listened to a stock WA22 and modded WA22 is over 6 months apart but I'm impress with it every time I turn it on.  From memory, I think the mid and more refine/smoother.  Slight bass extensions but the most I notice is the soundstage is wider and added depth.


 

 Who is Dannie01?  Does he do modifications professionally or did he send it out?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Who is Dannie01?  Does he do modifications professionally or did he send it out?
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
  He is the OP of this thread.  He does it him self with very good workmanship but he does not offer this service, I just happen to be the lucky guy to buy his modded WA22.  He is on to WA5LE now and busy modding it, he is in hiding,..


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He is the OP of this thread.  He does it him self with very good workmanship but he does not offer this service, I just happen to be the lucky guy to buy his modded WA22.  He is on to WA5LE now and busy modding it, he is in hiding,..


 

 LOL.  Ok, well, if you ever speak to him, can you ask him to send me a PM?  I'd like to talk to him about his WA22 mods.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He is the OP of this thread.  He does it him self with very good workmanship but he does not offer this service, I just happen to be the lucky guy to buy his modded WA22.  He is on to WA5LE now and busy modding it, he is in hiding,..


 
   
  I know I'm not alone waiting for him to emerge. Hope his return brings as many tales & photos as planes stacked up at HKIA on holiday. Enlighten and entertain us dannie01 !!!
   
  By the way, nice photo contribution, you saved our Monday...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> LOL.  Ok, well, if you ever speak to him, can you ask him to send me a PM?  I'd like to talk to him about his WA22 mods.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  I do have the parts list if you need it...


----------



## dmac03

I just received my pair of gec 6080's today. They are definitely different sounding than my TS 7236. I'm not sure which I prefer yet. Either way, it should keep me busy until the 6as7g's get here.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I just received my pair of gec 6080's today. They are definitely different sounding than my TS 7236. I'm not sure which I prefer yet. Either way, it should keep me busy until the 6as7g's get here.


 

 Where did you get them?


----------



## dmac03

The 6080's? I got them off a seller from ebay. I'd like to think I got a good deal on them at just under $60 for the pair.


----------



## jc9394

$60, that is a killer deal. NOS or slightly used?


----------



## dmac03

Supposedly NOS - you know how it is with things from ebay. They appeared to be in great condition. The only question mark for me is that they didn't arrive in the original GEC boxes.
   
  Nevertheless, they perform quite well.


----------



## jc9394

If it is NOS, give it at least 50 hours of burn in.  It will beat all your power tubes unless you are looking for the extra gain/punch of TS 5998 (but not as refine as GEC 6080).


----------



## mikemalter

Is any 6AS7G tube a direct replacement for the 6080 power tube in the WA22?


----------



## PFKMan23

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Is any 6AS7G tube a direct replacement for the 6080 power tube in the WA22?


 

 Yup.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If it is NOS, give it at least 50 hours of burn in.  It will beat all your power tubes unless you are looking for the extra gain/punch of TS 5998 (but not as refine as GEC 6080).


 


  Thanks for the advice. I will make sure I'm patient before I make any conclusions. By that time, though, the 6AS7G should be here. lol


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Please don't quote huge posts of photos in their entirety!  It too me forever to load this thread in my iPhone earlier today, and I had to come back tonight to read it on my computer.


----------



## hodgjy

In compatibility, yes.  In sound, no.  I haven't found a 6080 that I've liked yet.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Is any 6AS7G tube a direct replacement for the 6080 power tube in the WA22?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> In compatibility, yes.  In sound, no.  I haven't found a 6080 that I've liked yet.


 

 Since I am so new to the sound that types of tubes generate, my question to you is what would be a good list of 6AS7G tubes to look at?  The elusive GEC seems to be at the top of everyone's list.  Since I can't seem to find a pair anywhere, what other brands do you think are good?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Since I am so new to the sound that types of tubes generate, my question to you is what would be a good list of 6AS7G tubes to look at?  The elusive GEC seems to be at the top of everyone's list.  Since I can't seem to find a pair anywhere, what other brands do you think are good?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 RCA?  I prefer GEC 6080 over the RCA 6AS7G.


----------



## hodgjy

As far as "straight" 6AS7G tubes go (no equivalents) go, my favorite are these:
   
  1) Tung-Sol or Chatham
  These are warm, controlled, and detailed.  Good lower register.  Smooth highs.  Good air.  Imagine a 5998 with more warmth and slightly more smoothness at the expense of PRaT.  They have a little more glow than the 5998, not in light, but in terms of sound.
   
  2)  RCA
  These are almost as warm as the Tung-Sols, but aren't quite as detailed.  The lower register isn't as good.  Very smooth highs and decent air.  These are very excellent  tubes, so don't take these comments as a criticism.  It's just that the Tung-Sol is better.  Imagine a Tung-Sol after 3 glasses of red wine.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Since I am so new to the sound that types of tubes generate, my question to you is what would be a good list of 6AS7G tubes to look at?  The elusive GEC seems to be at the top of everyone's list.  Since I can't seem to find a pair anywhere, what other brands do you think are good?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> As far as "straight" 6AS7G tubes go (no equivalents) go, my favorite are these:
> 
> 1) Tung-Sol or Chatham
> These are warm, controlled, and detailed.  Good lower register.  Smooth highs.  Good air.  Imagine a 5998 with more warmth and slightly more smoothness at the expense of PRaT.  They have a little more glow than the 5998, not in light, but in terms of sound.
> ...


 

 I have them both so I now need to get the GEC. Oh where, oh where can I find a small treasure chest of gold coins to trade? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Or better yet, a small treasure chest of GEC tubes to keep!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> As far as "straight" 6AS7G tubes go (no equivalents) go, my favorite are these:
> 
> 1) Tung-Sol or Chatham
> These are warm, controlled, and detailed.  Good lower register.  Smooth highs.  Good air.  Imagine a 5998 with more warmth and slightly more smoothness at the expense of PRaT.  They have a little more glow than the 5998, not in light, but in terms of sound.
> ...


 
   
  Thank you for your impressions.

 I managed to pick up a pair of Tung-sol 6SN7's for drivers (not delivered yet) and am running a 5U4G EML for rectifier.  Do you think that the Tung-sol 6AS7G would fit in this mix?
   
  Currently I have a pair of Princess' for drivers and an RCA 6080 for power.  I had a pair of Sylvania 7236 as power, but they seemed too harsh for me.  So if I'm not liking the profile of the Sylvania 7236, would I like the Tung-Sol 6AS7G?


----------



## hodgjy

If the Sylvania 7236 is too harsh for you, the 6AS7G will definitely smooth things out.  It's a very romantic tube.  Seductive.
  
  I say just try one out.  The RCA is about $12 per tube, so it's a cheap experiment.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thank you for your impressions.
> I managed to pick up a pair of Tung-sol 6SN7's for drivers (not delivered yet) and am running a 5U4G EML for rectifier.  Do you think that the Tung-sol 6AS7G would fit in this mix?
> 
> Currently I have a pair of Princess' for drivers and an RCA 6080 for power.  I had a pair of Sylvania 7236 as power, but they seemed too harsh for me.  So if I'm not liking the profile of the Sylvania 7236, would I like the Tung-Sol 6AS7G?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yes the RCA chrome top (there is a tip at the top of the tube also) should give you more lower end and a more realistic sound stage.
> I think I got a lot of 10 nos RCA for $24 on E-Bay.
> imo the RCA 6EW7 and EML 5U4G are about as good as it gets for the WA6SE.


 

 I got the RCA big bottle chrome top 6EW7s in yesterday, and tried them out in my WA6SE; I can't really tell if they are NOS or not; the boxes look in good shape, and the dates on the boxes of one 'matched' pair are both April of 1969, but I'm thinking that doesn't really mean much, since these tubes might not be in their original boxes.  I paid www.electrontube.com $3.00 extra per tube to test each tube and give me two matched pairs.
   
  My 2nd matched pair, though, has dates of September, 1960 on one box, and April 1969 on the other.  The tube in the box with the older date does look different and have a different RCA logo printed on it.
   
  Anyway, I put in the first pair with matching box dates, and fired up the amp.  Initially, I noticed a small difference in the low end; maybe there was a tiny bit more impact, but I wasn't really sure.  But there was no doubt that the upper mids and highs were not as open and airy as with the Sylvania 6EW7s.  I decided to let the music play overnight, and this morning I listened for awhile again.  Maybe it was my fresh ears, but I definitely am now hearing more impactful bass from the RCAs, and the mids/highs seem to have opened up a bit, almost to where they sound like the Sylvanias but with the extra bottom I was hoping for.
   
  If these are NOS tubes (any way to tell?) they might require some playing time, and of course, my EML 5U4G is still pretty new-maybe 35-40 hours on it, so maybe there will be further improvement.  So far, though, I'm liking these RCAs a lot; thanks to Silly Sally and Xcalibur for the good advice.  And at $11.00 apiece (including testing) I think they were a bargain.
   
  Another reason I like the 6EW7s is that they are totally silent with no music playing, even with the volume control all the way up.  Not so with 6FD7, 6DR7, etc.;  Those have more gain and bass, but I don't like the hum, even if I can't hear it while the music is playing.
   
  I also purchased 2 pair of Raytheon big bottle clear top 6EW7s from Woo Audio, which I haven't tried out yet.  With the RCAs sounding like they do, the Raytheons might sit on the shelf for awhile.
   
  So, is this as far as I can go with a WA6SE, or other there other tube options I haven't even explored yet?  I think I should be satisfied for a while . . .


----------



## mikemalter

What kind of a tube is the Raytheon big bottle clear top 6EW7?  Will it work in the WA22?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If the Sylvania 7236 is too harsh for you, the 6AS7G will definitely smooth things out.  It's a very romantic tube.  Seductive.
> 
> I say just try one out.  The RCA is about $12 per tube, so it's a cheap experiment.


 

 This has been very helpful, thank you.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What kind of a tube is the Raytheon big bottle clear top 6EW7?  Will it work in the WA22?


 


  Nope - that's a WA6 tube type.


----------



## hodgjy

You're welcome.  This thread has been helpful for me, too!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This has been very helpful, thank you.


----------



## markmaxx

Hey anyone know what year these are 1952? the 4 digit number is 7252..http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250722466678&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_720wt_1139


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


mikemalter said:


> What kind of a tube is the Raytheon big bottle clear top 6EW7?  Will it work in the WA22?


 

 Sorry; I keep interjecting WA6SE tube experiences in between WA22 discussion.  I would love to upgrade to the WA22 or the WA5LE, but tube decisions are complicated enough right now, with only 1 rectifier and a single pair of power tubes.  I am beginning to get a glimpse of the complexity of tube rolling.
   
  At any rate, after more burn in time and more listening, I am really enjoying the EML 5U4G / RCA 6EW7 big bottle chrome top combination in the WA6SE.  I thought I would be putting the Sylvanias back in, but not so far.
   
  Still haven't tried the Raytheons, though.


----------



## jc9394

Is your WA6SE newer built?  You should try the 6FD7, it is my flavor with HD800.  Better bass extension and dynamics but loose a bit of soundstage.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Is your WA6SE newer built?  You should try the 6FD7, it is my flavor with HD800.  Better bass extension and dynamics but loose a bit of soundstage.


 

 It is not newer built (February 2010), but I sent it back for the modifications so I can use the 6FD7; I've tried them (Sylvania 6FD7 and also Pinnacle 6DR7) and I do prefer the wider soundstage of the 6EW7.  They are also quieter tubes; the 6FD7s & 6DR7s hum after a few hours of use, and also when the volume is up fairly high.  
   
  These RCA 6EW7s keep the wide open soundstage and lots of air in the mids and highs, they add a bit more bass, and they are totally silent at any volume.  Perfect for me so far.


----------



## hodgjy

For that price, they better be 5000 years old and handmade by ancient Egyptians. 
  
  Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Hey anyone know what year these are 1952? the 4 digit number is 7252..http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250722466678&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_720wt_1139


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Hey anyone know what year these are 1952? the 4 digit number is 7252..http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250722466678&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_720wt_1139


 


  They are year 1972 week 52 (last week in December), But non the less always ask the seller, and if you get no reply stay away.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> For that price, they better be 5000 years old and handmade by ancient Egyptians.


 

 Well I guess in that case you will never know what a great tube sounds like in a great amp.


----------



## hodgjy

In that case I'll also never taste a $25,000 bottle of wine.  Or, own a $500,000 car.
   
  Hey, to each his own.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well I guess in that case you will never know what a great tube sounds like in a great amp.


----------



## Braver

Well, cr@p. I'm looking to upgrade to a tube amp and decided to read this thread all the way through first, but I can almost not keep up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps I should just order that WA6 with the Sophia cause I know I want one anyway...
   
  Two questions:
  1. Any other Europeans have experience ordering from Woo Audio? How long did it take, and did you have to pay import duties?
  2. Anyone compare the WA6 to a Corda Arietta? I'm hoping for more clarity, wider soundstage, more fluid mids. But obviously you can't quite just walk into the local electronics store and have a listen...


----------



## sillysally

I think $1250 is a little more with-in the reach of a Woo lover that can afford a Woo 300B amp. 
   
  I can understand why you find this kind of pricing obscene, you are still into collecting entry+ level stuff as I did. But once I understood no matter what tubes I rolled into my WA6SE and my LD IVSE I was never going to get the what I really wanted.
  Had I saved my money up for my WA5LE in the first place and not gotten all the tubes I did get trying to reach a level of sound I wanted I could have saved a lot of money.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 


hodgjy said:


> In that case I'll also never taste a $25,000 bottle of wine.  Or, own a $500,000 car.
> 
> Hey, to each his own.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> As far as "straight" 6AS7G tubes go (no equivalents) go, my favorite are these:
> 
> 1) Tung-Sol or Chatham
> These are warm, controlled, and detailed.  Good lower register.  Smooth highs.  Good air.  Imagine a 5998 with more warmth and slightly more smoothness at the expense of PRaT.  They have a little more glow than the 5998, not in light, but in terms of sound.
> ...


 

 I just got a pair of 6AS7G's on ebay, but the tubes have different brands:
   

 Tube #1 is branded by National, with Tung-Sol "3226305" manufacture code, 1963 vintage, Triode #1 = "97", Triode #2 = "97"
 Tube #2 is TUNG-SOL CHATHAM, with Tung-Sol "322DN3" manufacture code, Triode #1 = "95", Triode #2 = "95"
   
  I am wondering if it is ok to use these tubes in my WA22 as the brands don't match exactly.  Do you think it would be a problem?  I probably should have posted first.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> Sorry; I keep interjecting WA6SE tube experiences in between WA22 discussion.  I would love to upgrade to the WA22 or the WA5LE, but tube decisions are complicated enough right now, with only 1 rectifier and a single pair of power tubes.  I am beginning to get a glimpse of the complexity of tube rolling.
> 
> ...


 

 There is no problem about posting your tube experiences anywhere, Mike.  This thread is a dog's breakfast anyway and from my perspective, it's perfectly ok to post anywhere.  I learn a lot from your posts and like to read about what you are up to.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> There is no problem about posting your tube experiences anywhere, Mike.  This thread is a dog's breakfast anyway and from my perspective, it's perfectly ok to post anywhere.  I learn a lot from your posts and like to read about what you are up to.


 

 This is so true Mike, especially for a tube novice. Without the experiences of all the helpful members that post here, I would be lost ( and wealthier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
   
  I ordered my WA22 from Jack along with some Sennheiser HD800s, Shuguang Treasure 6SN7s, Sylvania 7236s and EML 5U4G mesh plate.
   
  Today I received these Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRPs

  
  The GEC 6080 should be here in a day or two.
   
  Hopefully these components will work well together with my source, a Logitech Transporter, which has a balanced output. Most of the music is in 96/24 and 44.1/16.
   
  A couple more weeks 'till I find out.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> This is so true Mike, especially for a tube novice. Without the experiences of all the helpful members that post here, I would be lost ( and wealthier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Glad to hear you got the EML, everyone seems to like it better than the Sophia - me included.  I did not like the Sylvania's as they seemed to make the sound too rough and harsh, so I put the stock RCA's back in. I have heard it's better if the inputs are balanced, so that is a plus.  Also 96/24 music should play really nicely.  I'm also running with an HD800.  Does your headphone have balanced connectors?


----------



## nututubes

They will be! Actually since I ordered the HD800s from Jack, they will be shipped with the amp. The cable I selected was the APuresound APS HD800 with Furutech XLRs and Super Nylon jacket


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> This is so true Mike, especially for a tube novice. Without the experiences of all the helpful members that post here, I would be lost ( and wealthier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, you wasted no time on getting the fancy old light bulbs.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow, you wasted no time on getting the fancy old light bulbs.


 


 With your helpful suggestions and also some help from sillysally.


----------



## hodgjy

I foresee no problems at all.  According to Jack Wu, perfectly matched tubes are not a necessity.  Heck, he doesn't even supply matched stock tubes when he ships the amps out.  Matched tubes might give a little extra boost in terms of noise and volume, but they certainly won't turn a great amp into a pile of junk.  Plus, it doesn't matter what the tube looks like or its paint job.  All that matters is they have the same manufacturer and plate construction (which yours do) and their emission tests; it seems those tubes are very well matched. 
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got a pair of 6AS7G's on ebay, but the tubes have different brands:
> 
> 
> Tube #1 is branded by National, with Tung-Sol "3226305" manufacture code, 1963 vintage, Triode #1 = "97", Triode #2 = "97"
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I foresee no problems at all.  According to Jack Wu, perfectly matched tubes are not a necessity.  Heck, he doesn't even supply matched stock tubes when he ships the amps out.  Matched tubes might give a little extra boost in terms of noise and volume, but they certainly won't turn a great amp into a pile of junk.  Plus, it doesn't matter what the tube looks like or its paint job.  All that matters is they have the same manufacturer and plate construction (which yours do) and their emission tests; it seems those tubes are very well matched.


 

 Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> They will be! Actually since I ordered the HD800s from Jack, they will be shipped with the amp. The cable I selected was the APuresound APS HD800 with Furutech XLRs and Super Nylon jacket


 

 You are going to love the HD800's with the WA22.  Just remember to give some time for the tubes to burn in, and for the headphone to burn in too.  What color WA22 did you get, silver or dust-magnet?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You are going to love the HD800's with the WA22.  Just remember to give some time for the tubes to burn in, and for the headphone to burn in too.  What color WA22 did you get, silver or dust-magnet?


 


 HA! dust magnet to match the rest of the Rotel Stereo system. I'm trying to find more info on "burn in". When the new amp comes, do I have to use the stock tubes (whatever they are), or can I go right to the upgraded tubes? What exactly am I burning in...the amp or the tubes or the cans? All?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> HA! dust magnet to match the rest of the Rotel Stereo system. I'm trying to find more info on "burn in". When the new amp comes, do I have to use the stock tubes (whatever they are), or can I go right to the upgraded tubes? What exactly am I burning in...the amp or the tubes or the cans? All?


 
   
  Put in the upgrade tubes and listen to music.  Just enjoy it, no need to be specific on burn in.  Most tubes will open up after certain hours of usage.  One thing I take cautions to prolong the life of tubes is never turn it on and off with less than an hours.
   
  EDIT:
  EML - 80-100 hours
  Treasure - 200 hours
  GEC 6080 - 100 hours


----------



## nututubes

Jack has new WA22 photos on his site that will cause one to empty his or her wallet.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Put in the upgrade tubes and listen to music.  Just enjoy it, no need to be specific on burn in.  Most tubes will open up after certain hours of usage.  One thing I take cautions to prolong the life of tubes is never turn it on and off with less than an hours.
> 
> EDIT:
> EML - 80-100 hours
> ...


 


 Thanks jc, good to know.


----------



## jc9394

Nice, but I prefer silver.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice, but I prefer silver.


 


 The silver is absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> HA! dust magnet to match the rest of the Rotel Stereo system. I'm trying to find more info on "burn in". When the new amp comes, do I have to use the stock tubes (whatever they are), or can I go right to the upgraded tubes? What exactly am I burning in...the amp or the tubes or the cans? All?


 
   
  You are burning in tubes, amp, headphones and interconnects.
   
  I'd not burn in with the stock tubes, but the tubes you want to use.  I'd use the EML, Tung-sol and the RCA's.  However, some people will plug in the stock tubes first to make sure the unit is working ok and leave it on for a few hours.  That way you can get a sonic baseline and if there are problems going forward you know it is not your amp.  Then I'd put in the tubes you want to use.
   
  It's going to take at least 100 hours for everything to burn in so be prepared for some garbage initially.  Also, I have read that Jack says not to leave the system on for more than 8 hours at a time.  I'm not sure if you can go beyond that safely, but I have always limited my sessions to 8 hours (I have the amp with me in my office).  I also don't leave it on when I am not around just in case.

 That's my novice-beginner newby 2 cents.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> They will be! Actually since I ordered the HD800s from Jack, they will be shipped with the amp. The cable I selected was the APuresound APS HD800 with Furutech XLRs and Super Nylon jacket


 


  Never tried APuresound APS, I did have Blue Dragon and finally stay with TWag.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You are burning in tubes, amp, headphones and interconnects.
> 
> I'd not burn in with the stock tubes, but the tubes you want to use.  I'd use the EML, Tung-sol and the RCA's.  However, some people will plug in the stock tubes first to make sure the unit is working ok and leave it on for a few hours.  That way you can get a sonic baseline and if there are problems going forward you know it is not your amp.  Then I'd put in the tubes you want to use.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks Mike. Novice-beginner???? at least you have the amp and cans!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Never tried APuresound APS, I did have Blue Dragon and finally stay with TWag.


 


 jc, you told me about the TWags a few weeks ago, and I did check. I got the APS primarily because the cable material is copper and silver...so I didn't have to agonize over which cable material to use


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> jc, you told me about the TWags a few weeks ago, and I did check. I got the APS primarily because the cable material is copper and silver...so I didn't have to agonize over which cable material to use


 
   
  There is no right or wrong cables, just personal preference.  You will love it, the HD800 is great match with WA22.


----------



## illharmonics

I received my WA6 today. First amp and headphone setup ever.


----------



## PascalT

Would the Wa3 or Wa6 be a huge upgrade over a LittleDot MKIII? I'm currently mulling over upgrading my amp and I am also on the waiting list for a pair of Audeze LCD-2 so if I do decide on buying them I'd need an amp to match with the 650s and LCD2... In that case the WA6 would be best right? What about just WA3 vs LD3? Is it worth the swap price?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> I received my WA6 today. First amp and headphone setup ever.


 

  
  Cool!  Welcome to the thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> I received my WA6 today. First amp and headphone setup ever.


 

 Congratulations! You will not be disappointed. That was my first amp and headphone setup as well.


----------



## illharmonics

Cheers! I've been listening for awhile now and it sounds wonderful, but from what I've read it's only fair to pass judgement after a considerable amount of burn in. 
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Congratulations! You will not be disappointed. That was my first amp and headphone setup as well.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I got the RCA big bottle chrome top 6EW7s in yesterday, and tried them out in my WA6SE; I can't really tell if they are NOS or not; the boxes look in good shape, and the dates on the boxes of one 'matched' pair are both April of 1969, but I'm thinking that doesn't really mean much, since these tubes might not be in their original boxes.  I paid www.electrontube.com $3.00 extra per tube to test each tube and give me two matched pairs.
> 
> My 2nd matched pair, though, has dates of September, 1960 on one box, and April 1969 on the other.  The tube in the box with the older date does look different and have a different RCA logo printed on it.
> 
> ...


 

 I think you will have a hard time bettering your tube combo that you have now.
  Yes you can get drive/power tubes that will change the tone and sound stage, but I really don't think you will get a better balance of tone and sound stage than you have now.
  btw, I also have a pair of Raytheons like yours but they only saw about 15 min of trail time before I put back in my RCA chrome tops.
   
  Enjoy your system it is really very nice and that's why I will not sell my WA6SE. imo its the best bang for the buck with how you have it setup now.


----------



## Icenine2

Has anyone been hit with duty/customs fees from an eBay tube purchase from China?


----------



## Icenine2

WA22 guys.  Has anyone listened to or owns the beyerdynacmic T-1?  I had planned on those opposed to the Senn HD800's.  I got to listen to Skylab's and was knocked out.  What I'm not sure about is if the cables are hard wired or plug in like the Senn's.   Easy to make the 800's balanced.  Ordering the WA22 in silver.  I am going to go w/the EML 5 and SHU treasures


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> WA22 guys.  Has anyone listened to or owns the beyerdynacmic T-1?  I had planned on those opposed to the Senn HD800's.  I got to listen to Skylab's and was knocked out.  What I'm not sure about is if the cables are hard wired or plug in like the Senn's.   Easy to make the 800's balanced.  Ordering the WA22 in silver.  I am going to go w/the EML 5 and SHU treasures


 

 You're going to love the EML.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Has anyone been hit with duty/customs fees from an eBay tube purchase from China?


 


  Usually you won't get hit by US customs unless the item is over $1000.


----------



## Icenine2

I finally pulled the trigger and ordered my Silver WA22!  It says it will be ready in one week unless notified.  Ha!  I'll probably be lucky to get it by Christmas.  I'm going to order the Treasures from eBay and the EML from Tubes.USA.  I'll probably order the T-1's shortly unless I change my mind for the HD800's


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> WA22 guys.  Has anyone listened to or owns the beyerdynacmic T-1?  I had planned on those opposed to the Senn HD800's.  I got to listen to Skylab's and was knocked out.  What I'm not sure about is if the cables are hard wired or plug in like the Senn's.   Easy to make the 800's balanced.  Ordering the WA22 in silver.  I am going to go w/the EML 5 and SHU treasures


 


 The T1 are had wired. I have mine done by Robert from Aphroditecu29.com with the OCC copper cable and it was a huge difference. I was not statisfied with them wit the stock cable to the point of thinking in selling them but after the recabled job they are one of my favorite cans. The T1 in Aphroditecu29.com webiste are mine. they were the first with the Zeus. After mine Robert has been very busy selling Zeus cables.
   
  I listedn to my T1 with the WA22 at the last CanJam. They sounded very good. To be honest I prefered the sound of them with the WA5-LE even being single ended that's why I decided to ordered the WA5-LE instead of the WA22 even that all my system is balanced but the WA22 sounded pretty darn good too.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I finally pulled the trigger and ordered my Silver WA22!  It says it will be ready in one week unless notified.  Ha!  I'll probably be lucky to get it by Christmas.  I'm going to order the Treasures from eBay and the EML from Tubes.USA.  I'll probably order the T-1's shortly unless I change my mind for the HD800's


 

 Congrats on the WA22.  Don't worry about the timeline with Jack, he is usually spot on with timing.  Also, you're going to love the EML.  What power tubes are you going to try first?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I finally pulled the trigger and ordered my Silver WA22!  It says it will be ready in one week unless notified.  Ha!  I'll probably be lucky to get it by Christmas.  I'm going to order the Treasures from eBay and the EML from Tubes.USA.  I'll probably order the T-1's shortly unless I change my mind for the HD800's


 

 Jack time line usually spot on, unless you have some crazy special requests.  I prefer HD800 over T1, you may also consider the LCD-2 but the wait is very long.


----------



## illharmonics

Can any Woo 6 owners recommend me tubes? I'd like to look into rolling, except it's hard to understand all the different kinds of tubes that work with the WA6. I already have a Sophia Princess, but I'd like to try some others.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> Can any Woo 6 owners recommend me tubes? I'd like to look into rolling, except it's hard to understand all the different kinds of tubes that work with the WA6. I already have a Sophia Princess, but I'd like to try some others.


 


  Try EML 5U4G for the rectifier and a Sylvania or RCA 6FD7 or 6EW7 for driver/power tube.


----------



## Icenine2

I'm going to use the stock power tubes to start, EML rectifier and SHU Treasure Drivers.  The thought of having to hard wire the T-1's is making me reconsider it.  I like the flexibility w/the Senns.  Plus the cost is much less when you just plug them in.


----------



## Icenine2

Of course for Headphones there are the LCD-2's.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Of course for Headphones there are the LCD-2's.


 


 I'm still waiting for mines...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm still waiting for mines...


 

 How long have you been waiting?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How long have you been waiting?


 

 So far, two months.  I hope it will be soon...


----------



## Icenine2

32 Ohm Audio has them in stock but you have to buy their cable package with them.  Price is $1500.


----------



## jc9394

Not so sure on a $500+ cable now as I do not know I like the LCD-2 or not.  It is very hard to resell the package without taking a bath if I do not like it.


----------



## jc9394

I swap out my TS 6SN7 BGRP with TS 6F8G earlier today and found out the sound is almost the same.  I can't believe it, this is crazy.  The 6F8G is at least half the price if not 1/3 of TS BGRP.  I should find it I can find another pair.


----------



## jc9394

TS BGRP $145 buy it now on fleabay... 
   
  EDIT - it is 12SN7 not 6SN7


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I swap out my TS 6SN7 BGRP with TS 6F8G earlier today and found out the sound is almost the same.  I can't believe it, this is crazy.  The 6F8G is at least half the price if not 1/3 of TS BGRP.  I should find it I can find another pair.


 

 Where did you get your adapters?
   
  I'd be interested in how it sounds over time.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> TS BGRP $145 buy it now on fleabay...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/12SN7-6SN7-TUNG-SOL-ROUND-PLATES-tested-PAIR-/190465394700?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c589f480c


 

 GREAT price.  I just bought a pair so it's too late for me.  Nice catch.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Where did you get your adapters?
> 
> I'd be interested in how it sounds over time.


 
  PM 2359glenn
   
  EDIT - here is his fleabay ad.  http://cgi.ebay.com/6F8G-6SN7-Tube-Adapter-pair-/220691760638?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33624105fe
   
  EDIT2 - make sure to tell him you have the WA22, the cable exit is different for WA22.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> TS BGRP $145 buy it now on fleabay...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/12SN7-6SN7-TUNG-SOL-ROUND-PLATES-tested-PAIR-/190465394700?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c589f480c


 

 I thought the 12SN7s are quite different than the 6SN7s.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I thought the 12SN7s are quite different than the 6SN7s.


 

 Good catch.  You maybe right, I did not notice that.  Saw 6SN7 and $145...


----------



## dminches

If you can find a pair of TS BGRP NOS with boxes for under $400 it is a good find. Crazy.


----------



## Skylab

I thought my woo buddies would appreciate this - there is a small vacuum tube vendor in Akihabara in Tokyo that I visited yesterday.  The selection of NOS tubes this guy has is absolutely insane.  Some are very attractively priced, and some are not - seems to vary widely.  I did get a good price on a 5AR4 that is Siemens branded but is 100% for sure Mullard Blackburn.  Feast your eyes on this shop (this is about half of it):


----------



## Clayton SF

^ That's a great shop! Just last night I was searching for some Mullard 5AR5/GZ34 tubes. No luck. Because _me wallet doth protest too much._


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I don't suppose you are still in that neighborhood, and could take orders from some of us . . .also, it looks like a witty reply would be your 15,000th post.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I don't suppose you are still in that neighborhood, and could take orders from some of us . . .also, it looks like a witty reply would be your 15,000th post.


 

 Yes, orders!


----------



## Skylab

lOL guys! next time i come i will take some preorders


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I swap out my TS 6SN7 BGRP with TS 6F8G earlier today and found out the sound is almost the same.  I can't believe it, this is crazy.  The 6F8G is at least half the price if not 1/3 of TS BGRP.  I should find it I can find another pair.


 


   A TS 6SN7 BGRP is just a TS 6F8G RP put in i newer smaller GT type tube. The 6F8G is the origanal all TS did was put the insides of a 6F8G in the newer GT tube
  and renamed it 6SN7.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





skylab said:


> lOL guys! next time i come i will take some preorders


 


  Western Electric 300b matched set. Please...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 This is very interesting.  Just to say it back to see if I understand it and its implications.  If we get the adapters we can start using the TS 6F8G RP which is the same as the 6SN7 BGRP?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> lOL guys! next time i come i will take some preorders


 

 A pair of GEC 6AS7G's!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The 12SN7 is the same tube as the 6SN7 but has a 12 volt heater instead of 6 volt and will sound the same. But you will knead a adapter with a built in voltage doubler to
  make the 6.3 volts filament voltage to 12.6 volts. A 1633 is also the same tube with a 25 volt heater.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> This is very interesting.  Just to say it back to see if I understand it and its implications.  If we get the adapters we can start using the TS 6F8G RP which is the same as the 6SN7 BGRP?







Yes, I'm listening to it now. I had an issues with the hum earlier and never used it again. The hum was caused by the wire too close to the 5U4G, once I swapped it with the wire away from it, the hum are gone.

I heard the Sylvania 6F8G is slightly better than TS, I should find a pair.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn, do you make adapter for 6F8G to 6DE7?


----------



## 2359glenn

Yes thay are identical but you can also use a National Union 6F8G RP that might sound better than the Tung-Sol


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> A pair of GEC 6AS7G's!







Not cheap for this...but to me it is worth it. You should try to locate a pair of GEC 6080, it is very good match with HD800.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Yes thay are identical but you can also use a National Union 6F8G RP that might sound better than the Tung-Sol







Thx, guess I'm not done with tube hunting yet.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Glenn, do you make adapter for 6F8G to 6DE7?


 


   Yes I have made a few of these for the WA6


----------



## jc9394

Sweet, I will ping you if i decided to get a WA6 for bedroom rig.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I thought my woo buddies would appreciate this - there is a small vacuum tube vendor in Akihabara in Tokyo that I visited yesterday.  The selection of NOS tubes this guy has is absolutely insane.  Some are very attractively priced, and some are not - seems to vary widely.  I did get a good price on a 5AR4 that is Siemens branded but is 100% for sure Mullard Blackburn.  Feast your eyes on this shop (this is about half of it):


 

 Not as impressive as your, here is the place I got my GEC from.


----------



## SpudHarris

You guys are so lucky having places like that to visit. I don't know of any like that in the UK.
   
  I've been auditioning the 6F8G's again and to my ears the 6SN7 BGRP is slightly nicer than the 6F8G BGRP and quite a lot better than the Sylvania Grey Glass 6F8G's. I have been away from the thread for a while enjoying the music and rolling tubes and seem to keep coming back to the same conclusions.
   
  Although the Mullard GZ34 is an awsome rectifier the EML 5U4G is just better with almost everything. 
   
  I have 2 pairs of 6SN7's I keep coming back to and for different reasons. TS BGRP with my Beyer T1's is the most realistic sound I have heard to date and I don't think I'll ever tire of it. However, I also have a set of staggered plate Sylvania Chrome Tops which when coupled with my DT880/600's are so much fun, so musical, so different (in a good way). Probably coloured to death but a beautiful contrast to the BGRP's and T1's.
   
  I am saving my pennies now for the next step on the Woo ladder


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I've been auditioning the 6F8G's again and to my ears the 6SN7 BGRP is slightly nicer than the 6F8G BGRP and quite a lot better than the Sylvania Grey Glass 6F8G's. I have been away from the thread for a while enjoying the music and rolling tubes and seem to keep coming back to the same conclusions.
> 
> Although the Mullard GZ34 is an awsome rectifier the EML 5U4G is just better with almost everything.


 
   
  X2.  To my ear, the 6SN7 BGRP is a little better than the 6F8G BGRP.  According to Glenn, they are the same.  It may be me or the smaller tube helps out a bit too.  But for the price, that is a bargain for the sound quality it provide.
   
  I have the metal base Mullard GZ34 and it is great and better than Sophia but the EML 5U4G takes the Woo to another level.


----------



## Braver

Well, I just did it, I placed an order for the WA6+Sophia, and a bunch of tubes from Ebay. Nothing quite feels as satisfactory as financial ruiniation  Now for the wait. And ramen.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





braver said:


> Well, I just did it, I placed an order for the WA6+Sophia, and a bunch of tubes from Ebay. Nothing quite feels as satisfactory as financial ruiniation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congratulations! Yes, and ramen for sustenance for the time being is a good idea--it is about 95% of my larder and will continue to be so for years to come. Most of the great tubes come from the Netherlands so you should be lucky to live there.


----------



## flaming_june

I would recommend udon, it's healthier.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> I would recommend udon, it's healthier.


 

 Fresher too, right?


----------



## Clayton SF

I actually prefer cold soba noodles when I can afford them--and that's usually when I'm not buying tubes. And by the way, someone's WA6 has gone the way of the Hulk:


----------



## TheAudioDude

I finally popped in my newly acquired black glass Ken-Rad VT-231s!  Man alive these are incredible tubes.  The sound is so articulate and detailed.  I need another pair...


----------



## jc9394

Cold soba, my flavor. One of my must have if I go Japanese rest. Isn't that was jamato's old WA6?

Clayton, where in SF for cold soba? The couple places I visited in Jtown was a disappointment.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Cold soba, my flavor. One of my must have if I go Japanese rest. Isn't that was jamato's old WA6?
> 
> Clayton, where in SF for cold soba? The couple places I visited in Jtown was a disappointment.


 


 Jamato's old WA6? I don't know. I just did a Google search and came across that WA6 that looks like it's modded with powder kegs. And I've never been to Japan to be able to compare the ultimate soba noodle dish there to what we have here in San Francisco--but I satisfy my soba noodle cravings at _*Sanraku*_, they're two blocks down the hill from where I live.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I finally popped in my newly acquired black glass Ken-Rad VT-231s!  Man alive these are incredible tubes.  The sound is so articulate and detailed.  I need another pair...


 

 What's the difference between those and the clear glass version? I've been meaning to pick up a pair myself but don't know the answer to that yet.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  After reading the 6SN7 reference thread, nothing is different.  Black glass guarantees a great tube, but if you find a clear glass pair, make sure the plates are staggered (ie, the grid posts are diagonal from each other when viewed from the top).  You'll know by this that they were made in the early 1940s.
   
  ● “With reference to the KenRad, the first version can have either black glass or clear glass, always with staggered plates (I was the one who coined the 'staggered plates' moniker - there is zero sonic difference between the two). In the late 40's, when GE had taken more control over the KenRad operation, there was a second version with clear glass and in-line ribbed plates - it is NOTEABLY inferior sonically - gone is the big bass and the midrange bloom, added is a dry, slightly constricted sound with no magic.” -Robert H. (in personal correspondence)


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, thanks for the answer, it kind of rings a bell actually.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Jamato's old WA6? I don't know. I just did a Google search and came across that WA6 that looks like it's modded with powder kegs. And I've never been to Japan to be able to compare the ultimate soba noodle dish there to what we have here in San Francisco--but I satisfy my soba noodle cravings at _*Sanraku*_, they're two blocks down the hill from where I live.







It was John (jamato8)'s old WA6. 

NICE, I will try that place next time.


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow. Did you ever get a chance to listen to John's (yamato8)'s old WA6? Looks like it could kick _tires!_ Hey, when and if you return to SF, let's go on a soba hunt together.


----------



## jc9394

No, I did not get a chance to listen to John's WA6, I was thinking picking it up before but decided that I really Wang the WA22.

I will PM you the time I plan to hit SF again, most likely early next year.


----------



## flaming_june

Honestly though with that much mod I don't think it would make that much of a difference.  However it'd be better suited for higher imp phones than regular wa6s.
   
  Honestly Japanese rest in NA isn't that great, esp in socal where I used to work.  There's a substancial japanese population up in Canada where I live, and even at the most authentic place I could find, my friend from Japan still asked me, "WTH is teriyaki chicken", when I took her there.


----------



## Braver

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> Most of the great tubes come from the Netherlands so you should be lucky to live there.


 

 I would indeed expect a lot of Philips tubes to be available around here but have had no luck finding a seller for WA6 drive tubes. For small niche stuff like this though I have found that Ebay is generally a great place to look. Especially when the USD is weak compared to the Euro you can find great deals and for some reason shipping tends to be cheaper overseas than domestic!


----------



## Skylab

jc9393, that tube store looks pretty awesome!  I like the cabinets where the tubes are displayed


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





skylab said:


> jc9393, that tube store looks pretty awesome!  I like the cabinets where the tubes are displayed


 


  Some people have wine cellars in their house.  I'm going to have a tube cellar with lighted display cases... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  "Try this vintage WWII-era vacuum tube with round plates and bottom getter.  I feel it has a sweet midrange with a nice, slightly spicy after finish, almost like a calming breeze on an Autumn day."


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Should I let it breathe for about an hour before "tasting?"


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes, with all vintage tubes you'll want to let them open up before 'tasting'.  This can be accomplished by swirling the tube and letting it reach its peak temperature.  You'll also want to place your ears close to the tube so you can fully sense its warmth.


----------



## Icenine2

Does anyone own the WA22 and LCD-2's?  I'm deciding today on new phones for the yet-to-be-delivered WA22.  T-1's have been at the top of my list but..........I wasn't aware that the cable has to be hard-wired to go balanced(but I can get them a good price from Woo since I'm buying an amp at the same time).  So that puts the HD800 back in the running but.........a balanced cable and phone is more than the T-1 and having the work done.  Last...........LCD-2 which have the cable option but no clue on the pairing with the WA22.  Everything I read says to be careful with amp matching.  Plus some say they are uncomfortable plus they look a bit ugly(which has no bearing on anything).  Ken Ball at ALO said they are the best phone he's ever heard.  You can get one from 32Ohm today but.......you have to buy the ALO cable which adds another $500.  Or order and wait.


----------



## grokit

^ For balanced use you may want to check out the new HE-6 while it's at its introductory price; it should be able to be driven from a WA22 with 7236/5998 power tubes and it comes with a very nice 4-pin balanced XLR stock cable. Anyways if mine ever gets here I can tell you for sure how they match up. I have only heard the LCD-2 single-ended out of the WA22 with the stock cable and I thought that they sounded better out of my EF5, so I wasn't that impressed but that could change with a good balanced cable I suppose.
   
   
  Quote: 





braver said:


> for some reason shipping tends to be cheaper overseas than domestic!


 
   
  It's like that here too, globalization at its finest


----------



## tink97

Good afternoon everyone!
   
  I am proud to announce that my new baby WA2 arrived today, and it is simply amazing compared to my audio gd c2 amp i used to have.   This little bundle of joy was carefully unwrapped and then put on top of the counter for first time listening session.  I am super excited and cant wait until a few weeks of burn in.  For those who are wondering I just got the stock unit and put the extra money into buying tubes.  Thank you everyone for your input and also for those I pm'd your input was very much appreciated.
   
  I setup is now
   
  iMac---Audio GD DI----Dac3se----WA2 (stock)---Beyer dt880/akg sextett--- wonderful sounding.
   
  Have a wonderful evening or morning to you all
   
  tink97


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Enjoy your new WA2 and have a wonderful musical future with your new amp and future NOS procurements.


----------



## markmaxx

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Does anyone own the WA22 and LCD-2's?  I'm deciding today on new phones for the yet-to-be-delivered WA22.  T-1's have been at the top of my list but..........I wasn't aware that the cable has to be hard-wired to go balanced(but I can get them a good price from Woo since I'm buying an amp at the same time).  So that puts the HD800 back in the running but.........a balanced cable and phone is more than the T-1 and having the work done.  Last...........LCD-2 which have the cable option but no clue on the pairing with the WA22.  Everything I read says to be careful with amp matching.  Plus some say they are uncomfortable plus they look a bit ugly(which has no bearing on anything).  Ken Ball at ALO said they are the best phone he's ever heard.  You can get one from 32Ohm today but.......you have to buy the ALO cable which adds another $500.  Or order and wait.


 
  Just have the stock T-1 cable re- terminated with new balanced XLR ends, 
  
  I have the LCD 2 (stock cable single ended and Balanced Blue Dragon ) and the T-1 (stock cable balanced) they are close in sound signature.. I have only had the T-1 a week.. I can safely say to my ear,, the LCD 2 has a little more sound stage and a bit more bass and the bass can go a bit lower. T-1 may be a little more revealing as far as detail,, I had a WA 22 for the summer and can say the LCD 2 would be a great match. But did NOT have the WA 22 and the T-1 or the LCD 2 at the same time.   So my impressions of the two headphones are  with my Balancing act.  Good luck..


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Does anyone own the WA22 and LCD-2's?  I'm deciding today on new phones for the yet-to-be-delivered WA22.  T-1's have been at the top of my list but..........I wasn't aware that the cable has to be hard-wired to go balanced(but I can get them a good price from Woo since I'm buying an amp at the same time).  So that puts the HD800 back in the running but.........a balanced cable and phone is more than the T-1 and having the work done.  Last...........LCD-2 which have the cable option but no clue on the pairing with the WA22.  Everything I read says to be careful with amp matching.  Plus some say they are uncomfortable plus they look a bit ugly(which has no bearing on anything).  Ken Ball at ALO said they are the best phone he's ever heard.  You can get one from 32Ohm today but.......you have to buy the ALO cable which adds another $500.  Or order and wait.


 

 This coming weekend I will have the opportunity to listen to the lcd-2 off my wa22. I will be sure to report the results.


----------



## mikemalter

I have not heard the LCD-2 with my WA22.  I am driving a pair of HD800 with a Cardas cable and balanced connectors and I really like it.  Hope that helps.


----------



## mikemalter

Congrats on the new addition.  I'm sure you are going to love your Woo.
  
  Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Good afternoon everyone!
> 
> I am proud to announce that my new baby WA2 arrived today, and it is simply amazing compared to my audio gd c2 amp i used to have.   This little bundle of joy was carefully unwrapped and then put on top of the counter for first time listening session.  I am super excited and cant wait until a few weeks of burn in.  For those who are wondering I just got the stock unit and put the extra money into buying tubes.  Thank you everyone for your input and also for those I pm'd your input was very much appreciated.
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I finally popped in my newly acquired black glass Ken-Rad VT-231s!  Man alive these are incredible tubes.  The sound is so articulate and detailed.  I need another pair...


 


  The Ken Rad is one of the better known tubes I decided not to explore.  Can't afford them all, and after going straight for the prize I thought my appetite for tubes would die down.  Turns out it hasn't!  I just enjoy the variety.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ For balanced use you may want to check out the new HE-6 while it's at its introductory price; it should be able to be driven from a WA22 with 7236/5998 power tubes and it comes with a very nice 4-pin balanced XLR stock cable. Anyways if mine ever gets here I can tell you for sure how they match up. I have only heard the LCD-2 single-ended out of the WA22 with the stock cable and I thought that they sounded better out of my EF5, so I wasn't that impressed but that could change with a good balanced cable I suppose.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 

 I think I have a pair of HE-6s coming also it seems they ship from china, also got the E-Mail about my phone #.
   
  I E-Mailed HiFiman and linked the WA5LE at Woo to ask if my tricked out WA5LE would have the power for the HE-6. There reply "Perfect".
   
  The biggest reason why I did go with the HE-6 over the LCD-2 was because of what Ed Wood said about the HE-6 over the LCD-2 for the Realiser.
   
  I will be trying my Onkyo A/V speaker amp also with the HE-6 just to make sure my WA5LE really is "Perfect" for the HE-6.
   
  If my WA5LE easily powers the HE-6 using my Realiser also, then I may get my WA6SE out of the box and see how it is with the HE-6.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Good afternoon everyone!
> 
> I am proud to announce that my new baby WA2 arrived today, and it is simply amazing compared to my audio gd c2 amp i used to have.


 
  Same here: the WA3 according to my ears sounds better than the Roc I used to own with my HD650. I can only imagine how good is the WA2!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





markmaxx said:


> Just have the stock T-1 cable re- terminated with new balanced XLR ends,
> 
> I have the LCD 2 (stock cable single ended and Balanced Blue Dragon ) and the T-1 (stock cable balanced) they are close in sound signature.. I have only had the T-1 a week.. I can safely say to my ear,, the LCD 2 has a little more sound stage and a bit more bass and the bass can go a bit lower. T-1 may be a little more revealing as far as detail,, I had a WA 22 for the summer and can say the LCD 2 would be a great match. But did NOT have the WA 22 and the T-1 or the LCD 2 at the same time.   So my impressions of the two headphones are  with my Balancing act.  Good luck..


 

 IMO the T1 improves a lot with a good aftermarket cable. I was about to sell mine when I recebled them with the Aphroditecu29.com Zeus OCC copper cable and waht a difference. Now it is at the top of my list with tmy WA5-LE.
   
  I have compared the LCD-2 and the T1 both with a Zeus cable. With my WA-5-LE the T1 sounds better to me specially in soundtage presentation but with the Rudi RP010B they are at par IMO.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You can actually find a pair for a good price.  I saw a pair of clear-glass w/ staggered plates (same as the black glass) for just over $100.  Sometimes you can even snag individual tubes for cheap, too.  A good tested pair shouldn't run you more than $130 or so.  Those pairs you see on eBay for $250 are ridiculously priced.


----------



## mikemalter

Well, I got my Tung-sol 6AS7G's today.   I have a pair of NOS NIB 6SN7G Tung-Sol due here by the end of the month and a pair of GEC 6080 and a pair of RCA 6AS7G's also coming.
   
   
   The Tung-Sol 6AS7G's came wrapped in newspaper with no boxes.  I put them in my WA22 and have started listening to them.  See pictures below:
   

   
  The one above was branded with Chatham and was easy to plug in and seemed very solid.
   

   
  The brand on the other tube is National.  It seemed fragile when I inserted the tube like the base was not connected very solidly to the glass.
   
  I was a little irritated when I saw that the tube was branded as National.  I went back to the auction, and reading it again, he does say National.  Apparently I was fixated on the brand Tung-Sol and I did not know how to read the description properly.  However now that I have been around the block once I can see that I did not give proper attention to the description.  Just seeing the name Tung-Sol is really not enough.
   
  So, those of you who have been around the block a few times with regard to tubes, did I get screwed?  The guy placing the auction says that the tubes have the Tung-Sol manufacture code.  Does that mean they are a Tung-Sol?  Could it be that these tubes did not pass high standards and then were sent out to other companies who co-branded them?
   
  I'm playing them now and they are replacing a pair of RCA6080's.  First thing I noticed was that I needed to pod up the volume a bit to get to the same loudness output.
   
  Any thoughts from tube rolling veterans greatly appreciated.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

See my comments embedded in your post.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The brand on the other tube is National.  It seemed fragile when I inserted the tube like the base was not connected very solidly to the glass.
> 
> *This is very common.  I have several tubes that do this.  Considering their age, it is not surprising.  Glue only lasts so long.  It doesn't matter at all, considering you should only insert and remove tubes by grabbing the base and not the glass.*
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> See my comments embedded in your post.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, thanks for the reality check.  It's really helpful to have a few old salts around.


----------



## hodgjy

No problem.  We're all obsessive about our gear and dwell on things too much.  Heck, that's the fun of this hobby and makes us flock to chat boards!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, thanks for the reality check.  It's really helpful to have a few old salts around.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Had a little fun rolling tubes today.  I wanted to go back to the tube that is supposed to be in the amp and remind myself of the differences.  For reference I had the greyglass RCA 6SN7GT in before, and rolled to an RCA 6DE7.  The EML 274B was present in both cases.
   
  The very first thing I noticed was a complete lack of vocal texture.  I can only hear the singers tone now, not the texture of their voice.  Second thing I noticed was a complete lack of weight and depth to bass notes.  There is no attack to the notes at all, and they are so shallow you feel like you are hearing the after echo of the bass note that was supposed to be there.  Third thing I noticed was the lack of separation in the stereo image.  I won't even touch on soundstage because its obvious the 6SN7 will clobber a 6DE7 in that regard, but the layers of information I am used to hearing within the stereo image and the soundstage are smeared together on the 6DE7.  It is just a blob of sound in your head with the vocals in the middle.  High notes like cymbals do not occupy their own air or space even, nor does the decay of those notes remain distinct from the music as it should.  The lack of dynamic range is really obvious too, the presentation feels flat like the music had be normalized when it really hasn't been.
   
  In short, it sounds bad.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I would have thought the EML would extract the best these tubes could offer, but instead it just drives home how I could never go back to the time before I had my adapters.
   
  It was worth it just to see how hilarious it is to have those tiny little 6DE7s sitting in front of the EML 274B which simply towers behind them.  I actually chuckled out loud after I put them in.
   
  I don't think the greyglass RCAs really synergize with the EML well at all so I thought the comparison would be better, but it just goes to show how big a part the tubes can play in the sound.  I think in the future the EML and greyglass will not be playing together.  For clarity, dynamics, and low level detail the sound is great but something in the tone is just off and it bothers me enough to kill the enjoyment.  It is also the only 6SN7 I have which exhibits upper midrange harshness with the EML too, which is a big strike against them in my book.  I think I'll park the Sylvanias in the amp until next year comes around after this and let myself really get used to one sound for once.


----------



## sillysally

It should not matter the age of a tube if its loose bass its loose, its that simple. I would not keep them unless you got them cheap and like the way they sound.
  For resale a miss matched set is not very good, and then you add a flaw like a loose base. You are just asking for a problem.
  And yes as I have been saying all along you always insert and remove a tube with a bass from it's bass only.
  Older value tubes used a less environmentally friendly glue so there fore if it was handled properly chances are the bass would not come loose.


----------



## grokit

Why not just use a good heat-resistant adhesive to secure the tube properly on the base?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Why not just use a good heat-resistant adhesive to secure the tube properly on the base?


 

 Any recommendations?


----------



## Xcalibur255

A loose base should affect neither the performance nor the longevity of the tube.  My recommendation is to handle it with care and otherwise leave it be.  If you use an adhesive with thermal properties different from the original it could result in the glass envelope cracking from temperature differential stress in the long run.


----------



## mikemalter

Does anyone know if there is a tool out there to help you remove tools via their base.  I have two sets of tubes now that are hard to get in and out without using the glass to help get them out.
   
  I'm not into a lot of tube rolling, but right now I am working with three pairs of power tubes, and there will be an in and out phase until I settle on a single pair I really like.
   
  What do you use when you have sticky tubes and the connection between the glass and the base seems fragile?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Does anyone know if there is a tool out there to help you remove tools via their base.  I have two sets of tubes now that are hard to get in and out without using the glass to help get them out.
> 
> I'm not into a lot of tube rolling, but right now I am working with three pairs of power tubes, and there will be an in and out phase until I settle on a single pair I really like.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My preferred solution for hard to get at tubes is to use a socket saver which often extends the base of the tube high enough to help you remove by holding the base of the tube or the socket saver. Flea bay usually has many of the common socket pinouts.


----------



## hodgjy

X2.  Loose bases don't affect tube performance.  They just annoy the owner who wants perfect equipment.
   
  Also, I don't recommend re-gluing bases because you are just asking for trouble.  Thermal expansion may crack the base, glass, or cause uneven heating that may reduce tube life. 
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A loose base should affect neither the performance nor the longevity of the tube.  My recommendation is to handle it with care and otherwise leave it be.  If you use an adhesive with thermal properties different from the original it could result in the glass envelope cracking from temperature differential stress in the long run.


----------



## hodgjy

If someone is solely in the tube game to collect, sell, and turn profits, then I completely agree with your post.  But, if someone is in the tube game to enjoy the sound, I think your response is a bit of an over-reaction.  He's already got the tubes, why shouldn't he use them and enjoy them?  Electrically speaking, they are matched regardless of the silkscreen name painting on the tube.
   
  And, glue could wear out without being mishandled.  Oxidation happens.  Just go into your grandma's basement and pull a 30-year can of peas off the shelf.  That can hasn't been touched in 30 years, but as soon as you look at it, the paper label falls off because the glue broke down. 
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> It should not matter the age of a tube if its loose bass its loose, its that simple. I would not keep them unless you got them cheap and like the way they sound.
> For resale a miss matched set is not very good, and then you add a flaw like a loose base. You are just asking for a problem.
> And yes as I have been saying all along you always insert and remove a tube with a bass from it's bass only.
> Older value tubes used a less environmentally friendly glue so there fore if it was handled properly chances are the bass would not come loose.


----------



## sillysally

I never said he should not use and enjoy them if he likes them and didn't pay up for them. If he paid up for the tubes then he did get taken.
   
  Chances are these tubes are ok with a loose bass, but why take chances. It is what it is, and sugar coating doesn't help anybody to learn.
  The idea behind what I am saying is know what you are doing when you buy tubes, there are two many scam artist's out there.
   
  I said miss matched because of the different brands. However the only way I know to be sure that they are balanced is using a calibrated tube tester. But then again maybe your grandma can tell by shaking these tubes if they are a balanced set.
   
  I am sorry but we are not talking about canned vegetables we are talking about quality tubes.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  National is just a rebadged Tung-Sol.  I don't think the seller was a scam artist.  He disclosed all info about tube brands in the sale.  The seller disclosed performance from a calibrated tester.  If the info was honest, they are matched tubes.
   
  I personally see no risk of using a tube with a loose base other than improperly handling it and damaging it more.  The loose base will not affect the electrons, the sound, or any aspect of its electrical performance.  That's my call.  I respect your opinion to not use them.  Cheers, my friend.


----------



## sillysally

No you are wrong we do agree. As I have said I don't think in most cases a loose bass on a tube like that is a bad thing, however its not ideal.
   
  And you are also right, I would throw those 30 year old peas out and not take any chances on eating them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Peace.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I said miss matched because of the different brands. However the only way I know to be sure that they are balanced is using a calibrated tube tester. _*But then again maybe your grandma can tell by shaking these tubes if they are a balanced set.*_


 

 LOL. You guys made my morning at work (shhhhhhhh).


----------



## hodgjy

Ditto.  That's what I like about the Woo forum.  We're all a good group of chaps that get along well.  Cheers, my friend.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Peace.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Music is supposed to be a joyous thing.  I've always wondered why, then, is there so much malice and arguing on forums dealing with audio equipment?  Our owners thread here is probably the nicest internet forum thread I have ever had the privilege of being a part of.  Nothing but good vibes around here.


----------



## Icenine2

Woo coming soon.  Should I handle new tubes with gloves to avoid oils to glass?  Last tubes I changed were on my Mesa/Boogie(1977) guitar amp.
   
  A sidestep off-topic:  I realized the other day that all the music I listened to in the mid sixties on my parents "stereo-console" was tubed.


----------



## jc9394

I use a micro fiber to clean any oil after I insert or remove the tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I use a micro fiber to clean any oil after I insert or remove the tubes.


 
  I use a pair of cotton gloves.  I never touch a tube glass with my fingers.


----------



## mikemalter

Have a few questions.  At the risk of reopening a sensitive topic about a recent tube purchase, I am only doing this to deepen my understanding of tubes.
   
  I recently purchased a pair of 6AS7G tubes.  The seller on ebay said they were Tung-sol tubes.  One was branded Tung-sol Chatham and the other National.  The seller said the manufacturer code was the same on both tubes.  
   
  On looking at them, the one branded Tung-sol has a number of 322DN3 and the other tube branded National has the number 3226305.  Can I take it that the 322 portion of the number is the Tung-sol manufacturer code?  It is after that 322 which is different.  I'm including photos of the tubes and listing physical differences they have.
   

   
  Don't know what the part is called, but you can see the contrast of the copper tube going up the middle of the tube.  Also, please note the silvery stuff at the bottom of the tube.  This is the Tung-sol Chatham tube and it has that copper part and the shiny stuff at the bottom.  The other tube, branded National does not use copper for this part, and there is no silvery stuff at the bottom as you can see.
   

   
  The other differences are at the top of the tube.  The one branded Tung-sol Chatham is clear and the one branded National has silvery stuff up there.

   
  So my questions are:
   

 Does the copper have any sonic value over the non-copper?
 What does the silvery stuff at the bottom of the tube do and does its presence/absence have any sonic consequences?
 What does the silvery stuff at the top of the tube do, and like #2 above, does its presence/absence have any sonic consequences?
   
  From a vendor who is looking at tubes from the perspective of manufacturer codes, it would make sense to me that they would see them as the same.  However from a music listener perspective, are they the same?  From the perspective of listening, the amp sounds better with them in, so I moved in the right direction which is good.  Would I want to keep my eye out for another tube that is more like the one with the copper parts?  I am very new to tube rolling, and have a lot to learn, so I am interested in the different perspectives out there regarding the match of tubes.
   
  One last question.  I am breaking in a different pair of power tubes, this time what look like a "matched" pair of RCA 6AS7G's.  Everyone once in a while I am hearing a very quick pop in my left earphone that is not a result of the music or line-noise.  I heard one on the right side.  I have never heard tubes pop like that.  Should I return these tubes?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## dariusf

Hi guys, looking to be a part of the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Any GES out there looking for a new home?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Woo coming soon.  Should I handle new tubes with gloves to avoid oils to glass?


 
   
  It's a complete myth that such treatment is necessary.  Do it if it makes you feel better, but it's not at all needed.  But don't touch hot tubes at all, or you may burn your skin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   


  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So my questions are:
> 
> 
> Does the copper have any sonic value over the non-copper?
> ...


 


  1. That's a support rod.  I've never thought there was any reason to believe the material it's made out of matters at all.
   
  2. The "silvery material" is getter flashing, and it's presence shows the location of the getter.  The function of the getter was to eliminate the last bit of air in the vacuum when the tube was first fired up, and the chemical reaction causes the flashing.
  The shape and location of the getter can indicate a specific tube construction, and as such can be a tip-off about a certain variant of tube which will have it's own sonic properties, but I'm not convinced that the location of the getter matters at all, in and of itself.
   
  3. Same as above.
   
  I'm pretty anal, and so I like the tubes I use to be identical when used in pairs.  But I'm not sure that a top or side getter on an otherwise identical tube really matters.
   
  Regarding the popping, I would replace that tube - it sounds like it might be arcing.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 1. That's a support rod.  I've never thought there was any reason to believe the material it's made out of matters at all.
> 
> 2. The "silvery material" is getter flashing, and it's presence shows the location of the getter.  The function of the getter was to eliminate the last bit of air in the vacuum when the tube was first fired up, and the chemical reaction causes the flashing.
> The shape and location of the getter can indicate a specific tube construction, and as such can be a tip-off about a certain variant of tube which will have it's own sonic properties, but I'm not convinced that the location of the getter matters at all, in and of itself.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for addressing my concerns about the materials inside of the tube.  Also, I am finding that even with the differences in construction and materials,  these guys are sounding really great, and it's a big boost sonically, and after 20 hours they are really starting to smooth out.
   
  Regarding the other tubes, the ones that were popping.  I got them from Arizona Tube Supply, and when Dave Hollander got my email about the problem, he called me right away.  He is a really great guy to do business with and he is going to make it right ASAP.


----------



## hodgjy

When does the popping start and how long does it persist?  Some tubes naturally make a popping noise (not in the headphones, but an external sound you can hear like a tick) while it heats up.  If your tube is microphonic on top of that, it could translate into a pop in your headphone.  This has happened to me a few times, but once the tube is warmed up, the pops go away.  Better yet, once the tube is burned it, often time the microphonics go away, too, so no more popping sound in the headphone--ever.
  
  But, if it's a persistent pop that remains after 20-30 hours of break in, you probably got a bum tube and should inquire about a refund.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Everyone once in a while I am hearing a very quick pop in my left earphone that is not a result of the music or line-noise.  I heard one on the right side.  I have never heard tubes pop like that.  Should I return these tubes?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dariusf said:


> Hi guys, looking to be a part of the club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There are several pairs up for auction over on ebay:
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300491374557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300493095187&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> When does the popping start and how long does it persist?  Some tubes naturally make a popping noise (not in the headphones, but an external sound you can hear like a tick) while it heats up.  If your tube is microphonic on top of that, it could translate into a pop in your headphone.  This has happened to me a few times, but once the tube is warmed up, the pops go away.  Better yet, once the tube is burned it, often time the microphonics go away, too, so no more popping sound in the headphone--ever.
> 
> But, if it's a persistent pop that remains after 20-30 hours of break in, you probably got a bum tube and should inquire about a refund.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, it keeps coming.  Also the music is fuzzy on the same channel.  Dave Hollander at Arizona Tube Supply where I got the tube says he'll do a refund.  He is a really good guy and did not give me any static about it.  He was apologetic about it.


----------



## dariusf

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh sorry I was referring to Woo Audio GES Electrostatic amp, once I get one I will be part of the Woo Audio club


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Woo coming soon.  Should I handle new tubes with gloves to avoid oils to glass?  Last tubes I changed were on my Mesa/Boogie(1977) guitar amp.
> 
> A sidestep off-topic:  I realized the other day that all the music I listened to in the mid sixties on my parents "stereo-console" was tubed.


 

 Me too. The first LP that I actually bought and played on my parents' Motorola Stereo console was the Doors--their first LP . I used to climb behind the stereo and look at the tubes and wonder what each of them did. One day I removed one when the stereo was off and my parents weren't home. It shut down one channel. My dad couldn't figure out why so I replaced it when he wasn't home and it worked again. He thought I fixed the stereo. Boy was it dusty back in there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You handle your tubes bare handed then?  I wear yellow rubber kitchen gloves while handling mine, figuring if the skin oil thing is a myth then at least there is still value in having a better grip so I don't drop a tube.  
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's a complete myth that such treatment is necessary.  Do it if it makes you feel better, but it's not at all needed.  But don't touch hot tubes at all, or you may burn your skin


----------



## Xcalibur255

> Does the copper have any sonic value over the non-copper?


 
   
  In this particular case I'd agree with Skylab's wisdom on the subject, but I wanted to touch on this because there are times when this does matter.  At least in my opinion/experience anyway.  In your example the rod is a support rod, but something to pay attention to on tubes, particularly signal tubes, is the material the grid posts are made from.  If you look at a typical 6SN7 you'll see three posts poking up from the mica.  The center one is a support rod, but the ones on each side of it are grid posts and you'll see these in both copper and what I assume to be steel (they are silver colored).  I've had the chance to compare tubes which are otherwise identical which had both copper and steel grid posts and there is a clear difference in sonics between them, to the point where such tubes couldn't function as a pair because the sound from each channel was colored differently.  I often see tube sellers selling pairs where one has copper posts and the other steel because they simply are not aware of this detail, and I learned the hard way to pay attention to this when buying tubes.  The copper posts are the ones that sound better IMO.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You handle your tubes bare handed then?  I wear yellow rubber kitchen gloves while handling mine, figuring if the skin oil thing is a myth then at least there is still value in having a better grip so I don't drop a tube.


 
   
  Yes, bare handed, and never had any issue whatsoever, and I have it on very good authority that there is no reason not to.


----------



## Torero

Has anyone compared the WE 274B NOS with the EML  or the Sophia?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Same here, bare hands.


  Quote: 





torero said:


> Has anyone compared the WE 274B NOS with the EML  or the Sophia?


 

 Don't think the WE 274B will work as a replacement for the EML 5U4G or the Sophia 274B in are Woo's. I could be wrong but what I have read and the specs I have seen say no.


----------



## hodgjy

X2.  I get a much better grip without gloves getting in the way.  If I remember, I might take a clean cloth and wipe them off.  You have to think about their construction, purpose, and then put it all into perspective.  For years, tubes were used in military radios.  Do you think the GIs in the field would put on clean gloves just to swap out a tube when it was time to call in reinforcements during a bomb raid?  Would oily fingerprints potentially mean the difference between life and death and radio failure?  Tubes were designed to withstand military abuse.  I think they can handle obsessive hobbyists like myself.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

Thanks for the info.  I used to handle my guitar amps tubes by hand all the time and never really had one go bad.  6L6's.  Big tubes.  When I sold the amp two years ago I had a bunch of extra tubes and at the time I was surprised how much others were paying me for them.  It's ironic that I wouldn't even consider a solid state guitar amp.  Ever.  Tubes are the only way to get a great tone and screaming sound.


----------



## bobski32

Hey guys

I've been reading the forms for a while and I've decided to get into headphones. I have a good stereo, but I haven't been able to get it sounding right in my new house/room. I spent about $2000 on panels and I'm just tried of messing around with it. So... what better way to start off with headphone audio then buying a Woo. 

I'm thinking of going with a WA22 first, but I won't have a balanced source for a year or so. Should I still get one? Will it still sound half decent? 

Thanks


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





bobski32 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I've been reading the forms for a while and I've decided to get into headphones. I have a good stereo, but I haven't been able to get it sounding right in my new house/room. I spent about $2000 on panels and I'm just tried of messing around with it. So... what better way to start off with headphone audio then buying a Woo.
> 
> ...


 

 The WA22 has a selector switch in the rear that will allow you to choose SE or balanced. I have heard both ways and the SE had great sound signature. If you choose not to go balanced you may want to consider the WA-6SE and save some money.
   
  Both are transformer coupled output and will drive lo/hi impedance phones.
   
  Enjoy music!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





bobski32 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I've been reading the forms for a while and I've decided to get into headphones. I have a good stereo, but I haven't been able to get it sounding right in my new house/room. I spent about $2000 on panels and I'm just tried of messing around with it. So... what better way to start off with headphone audio then buying a Woo.
> 
> ...


 

 I've got a WA22 and am very glad I got it.  My headphones are Sennheiser HD800 and I put an aftermarket cord on them with balanced connectors.  With the Sennheisers, the cable is not hardwired and replacement is easy.  My DAC has balanced out and that's how I am using it.  However you can select single ended for input as well as output.  If you are wondering what the difference is, there is a review of the WA22 with HD800 'phones at http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/woo2/1.html.  The writer says that while balanced sounds better, single ended is good too.  So, you don't have to get everything all at once, you can get the amp and then can add a little bit more as time goes on.
   
  Another aspect of the WA22 is that the amp responds to whatever tubes you put into it, and that is another area of growth.  If you do get the WA22, think about requesting the Emission Labs 5U4G rectifier as an upgrade and read as much as you can about tube rolling.  Changing tubes and finding the right ones, have at least doubled the performance and my enjoyment of my WA22.
   
  Finally, there is an adjustment from speakers to headphones.  While, you get much more performance for your money when going via the headphone route, it's a different experience.  Your headphones are your speakers, and the best headphones out there cost exponentionally less that medicore speakers.  Also, you don't need as much equipment to drive headphones, so for similiar costs to a lower end preamp you can get a high end unit.  But, the listening experience is not exactly the same as listening to speakers.  I'm not sure if you are a image guy, I was when my primary listening was through speakers.  Whenever I listened to music, if there was no imaging, I was not interested.  With headphones, the stereo image is going to be different.   So, while you pay considerably less money for much higher quality, the experience may not be what you are looking for.  Woo's build quality is exceptional, and the service you get from Jack is the best so no problem there.


----------



## mikemalter

Looks like there is going to be a San Francisco bay area meet this January.  Here is the thread if anyone is interested.  I'm up in San Rafael, and it looks like it is going to be in San Mateo.  Here is the link: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/507583/bay-area-meetup/45#post_7073094


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





bobski32 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I've been reading the forms for a while and I've decided to get into headphones. I have a good stereo, but I haven't been able to get it sounding right in my new house/room. I spent about $2000 on panels and I'm just tried of messing around with it. So... what better way to start off with headphone audio then buying a Woo.
> 
> ...


 

 With any balanced amp you must go 100% balanced (cable, source player and DAC) to bring out the best of a balanced amp, otherwise you would better off going SE.
   
  If you like a speaker system but want the acoustics to come out right along with the tonal qualities, placement of speakers, ect.. Then you may want to look here.
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/418401/long-awaited-smyth-svs-realiser-now-available-for-purchase/900#post_7015952
   
  The draw back to this system is you must have access to a high end speaker system and room acoustics. In my case I went to AIX sound studio and made copy's of there reference 5.1/7.1 speaker system and there certified THX 5.1 system. So now I have about 95% of what there sound systems sound like in my man cave at a fraction of what a sound systems of this caliber would cost.
   
  I don't use there bundled STAX system because I have a tricked out WA5LE and also a WA6SE max. Along with a couple of high end SE headphones.


----------



## bobski32

Thanks mike

That's basically what I wanted to know, if it still sounded good SE. I'm pretty sure ill be picking up a pair of HD800 a few months after getting the WA22 too. For now, i'll be using $40 earbuds from sony....LOL. You got to start somewhere i guess, and i want to do it right. I do love imaging, but I spent so long trying to get it in my new room that I forgot why I started doing all this to begin with..... the music!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





bobski32 said:


> Thanks mike
> 
> That's basically what I wanted to know, if it still sounded good SE. I'm pretty sure ill be picking up a pair of HD800 a few months after getting the WA22 too. For now, i'll be using $40 earbuds from sony....LOL. You got to start somewhere i guess, and i want to do it right. I do love imaging, but I spent so long trying to get it in my new room that I forgot why I started doing all this to begin with..... the music!


 

 Well if you are in it for the music, you're in the right place.  Just from a personal perspective.  Everytime I turn on my WA22 and listen to music, it just hits the spot.  It's like I have this inner criticality and my Woo goes past it every time.  It's just this rich sound that is true.
   
  I'm sure you'll love your WA22.


----------



## Icenine2

I just got my delivery from China: Shuguang CV181-Z Treasure matched pair.  Oooooooooooo they are nice and come in a box.  Now all I need is the WA22 to be delivered so I can hook them up.
   
  Keith


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I just got my delivery from China: Shuguang CV181-Z Treasure matched pair.  Oooooooooooo they are nice and come in a box.  Now all I need is the WA22 to be delivered so I can hook them up.
> 
> Keith


 

  
  Awesome!  I had a chance to listen to them for a month (thanks again Clayton!) and I really liked them.  They have plenty of detail with a pretty smooth sound.  If you like them, I'd suggest trying out a pair of the black glass Ken Rad VT-231s.  The sound is very similar but I found the Ken-Rads to be a bit more tubey.


----------



## mikemalter

Need some advice on a transaction with an ebay seller from Greece.  His id is pavgeris and I bought some NOS NIB Tung-Sol 6SN7's from him.
   
  He shipped from Greece on 11/11 and they got to New York on the 13th.  Then for some reason unknown to the Post Office, they were sent back to Greece and they remain there to this day.  I have not heard word one from pavgeris about this and just emailed him today about it.  Probably won't hear till later today or maybe even tomorrow given the time difference.
   
  Has anyone had any experience with buying from pavgeris?  Anyone ever have this happen to them where for some reason their stuff is shipped back?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

The Post Office is free to send things back to international shippers for a variety of reasons, including:
   
  1) Improper destination address
  2) Improper customs forms/delcaration
  3) Improper origin address
  4) Suspicious contents
  5) Insufficient postage
   
  So, I'd be willing to bet the seller just messed something up on accident.  If the package made it to the US, this was not a deliberate attempt to steal your money.  Give the seller a day or so to respond.  But, if you used Paypal on eBay, you should be protected and can do a charge-back.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Need some advice on a transaction with an ebay seller from Greece.  His id is pavgeris and I bought some NOS NIB Tung-Sol 6SN7's from him.
> 
> He shipped from Greece on 11/11 and they got to New York on the 13th.  Then for some reason unknown to the Post Office, they were sent back to Greece and they remain there to this day.  I have not heard word one from pavgeris about this and just emailed him today about it.  Probably won't hear till later today or maybe even tomorrow given the time difference.
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Need some advice on a transaction with an ebay seller from Greece.  His id is pavgeris and I bought some NOS NIB Tung-Sol 6SN7's from him.
> 
> He shipped from Greece on 11/11 and they got to New York on the 13th.  Then for some reason unknown to the Post Office, they were sent back to Greece and they remain there to this day.  I have not heard word one from pavgeris about this and just emailed him today about it.  Probably won't hear till later today or maybe even tomorrow given the time difference.
> 
> ...


 

 I have purchased some pricey tubes from John and he has always shipped quickly and communicated well.  I am sure he will make things right.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have purchased some pricey tubes from John and he has always shipped quickly and communicated well.  I am sure he will make things right.


 


 Are we talking about the same guy?  Pavgeris is Peter Avgeris.  Does he have someone named John working for him?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 Finally a comparison of a Shuguang tube to anything else, very interesting as I have the Shuguang and am bidding on the Ken-Rad. Keep 'em coming, especially the 274B if anyone can compare it to other rectifiers!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Sorry, no.  I guess I didn't realize how many tube dealers were in Greece!


----------



## markmaxx

If you paid via,,paypal file a claim you can get your money back..They will contact him first to see why the package never got to you,, then they go from there..
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Need some advice on a transaction with an ebay seller from Greece.  His id is pavgeris and I bought some NOS NIB Tung-Sol 6SN7's from him.
> 
> He shipped from Greece on 11/11 and they got to New York on the 13th.  Then for some reason unknown to the Post Office, they were sent back to Greece and they remain there to this day.  I have not heard word one from pavgeris about this and just emailed him today about it.  Probably won't hear till later today or maybe even tomorrow given the time difference.
> 
> ...


----------



## wollabilla

How long does it usually take Jack to respond to an email? Have sent a couple of inquiries over the past few days and have not heard anything back so far.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wollabilla said:


> How long does it usually take Jack to respond to an email? Have sent a couple of inquiries over the past few days and have not heard anything back so far.


 


 It can take a day or two before he answers.  Sometimes I'll resend and then I get an answer.  He is pretty good about answering.


----------



## mikemalter

Just got my GEC 6080 power tubes today and thought I'd post some immediate impressions.
   
  I had a pair of Tung-Sol 6AS7G's in there, and out of the gate (less than an hour listening) it seems that the GEC's have a little more of everything.  I had a little over 50 hours on the TS and they were a very big improvement over my RCA 6080's; very smooth and dynamic, lots of detail with tone accurate to my ear.
   
  At first blush the GEC's took it up another notch with regrd to bass and treble but not as raw as I percieved the Sylvania 7236's.  I'm going to need to break these guys in, it's like listening to music with a cold right now; it all feels a little congested, but if that veil lifts; they are going to be a really nice pair of power tubes.
   
  Now if I could only get my 6SN7's out of Greece, audio nervana.  
   
  I'll post some photos as soon as my camera battery charges.


----------



## hodgjy

It depends.  Really, he will write you back when he's ready.  This means either when he has time or when he actually has an answer, and they're not the same thing.  But, he always gets back to you.
  
  Quote: 





wollabilla said:


> How long does it usually take Jack to respond to an email? Have sent a couple of inquiries over the past few days and have not heard anything back so far.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got my GEC 6080 power tubes today and thought I'd post some immediate impressions.
> 
> I had a pair of Tung-Sol 6AS7G's in there, and out of the gate (less than an hour listening) it seems that the GEC's have a little more of everything.  I had a little over 50 hours on the TS and they were a very big improvement over my RCA 6080's; very smooth and dynamic, lots of detail with tone accurate to my ear.
> 
> ...


 


  That's exactly what I noticed, too.  My Tung-Sol 7236s do sound a little 'raw' and edgy compared to the GEC 6080s.  Needless to say, the GECs are my permanent power tubes... until I can find a pair of the brown base 6AS7Gs.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One other thing I noticed was that the soundstage seemed more developed or noticeable.  Did you get this too?
   
  How long did it take for your GEC's to break in?


----------



## Icenine2

Anyone here seen the new Havana Balanced DAC?  Looks like a good pairing for the WA22.  Wyred4Sound DAC2 still #1 choice but digging about I've come across many choices.  The Havana is really beautifully built.  I wonder how it sounds.  This balanced version is new.  Check it out at the 32 OHM site.
   
  K
http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4_115&products_id=585


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> One other thing I noticed was that the soundstage seemed more developed or noticeable.  Did you get this too?
> 
> How long did it take for your GEC's to break in?







More 3D and wider. Give the GEC at least 50 hours, it fully open up around 100 hours.


----------



## jc9394

icenine2 said:


> Anyone here seen the new Havana Balanced DAC?  Looks like a good pairing for the WA22.  Wyred4Sound DAC2 still #1 choice but digging about I've come across many choices.  The Havana is really beautifully built.  I wonder how it sounds.  This balanced version is new.  Check it out at the 32 OHM site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







I highly recommend the Perfectwave, it pair very well with WA22.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Awesome!  I had a chance to listen to them for a month (thanks again Clayton!) and I really liked them.  They have plenty of detail with a pretty smooth sound.  If you like them, I'd suggest trying out a pair of the black glass Ken Rad VT-231s.  The sound is very similar but I found the Ken-Rads to be a bit more tubey.


 
  I own both an I think the Ken-Rad are better. IMO close second to the TungSol BG/RP. At least in my WA5-LE.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A
> 
> 
> 
> I highly recommend the Perfectwave, it pair very well with WA22.


 
  I agree. I hav the PerfectWave with the Signature upgrade from The Upgrade Company and it pairs perfect with my WA5-LE. It provides a lot more detail then my "vanilla" Wadia 27.


----------



## wollabilla

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It depends.  Really, he will write you back when he's ready.  This means either when he has time or when he actually has an answer, and they're not the same thing.  But, he always gets back to you.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

  
  Thanks for the reply. Jack reverted shortly after you replied and I have now placed an order for a WA6-SE with an EML 5U4G mesh plate.
   
  Can't wait for it to get here!


----------



## mikemalter

Pictures of my NOS NIB GEC 6080
   

  Neighbors.
   
   

  The golden glow of the left channel
   

  The right channel
   

  It's a tube party with a shy left channel.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Hey, mikemalter, I have a Mullard 6080 that looks just like that. Where can I get a few "G.E.C." stickers to apply to my Mullards?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'll be in Amsterdam, Netherlands and London, England for the Christmas holidays. I should check out some tubes for my WA22 while I'm there. Can anyone from the Netherlands suggest a shop that I should visit while in N.Holland? England? I wonder if the old Blackburn factories are giving tours? Maybe I'll bring my WA6 along for the ride.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Hey, mikemalter, I have a Mullard 6080 that looks just like that. Where can I get a few "G.E.C." stickers to apply to my Mullards?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Clayton, did you see the post for the Bay Area meet in January?  Think you can make it?
   
  I could photoshop a few GEC stickers for you if you like.  How do you think the Mullards sound in relation to GEC?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Clayton, did you see the post for the Bay Area meet in January?  Think you can make it?
> 
> I could photoshop a few GEC stickers for you if you like.  How do you think the Mullards sound in relation to GEC?


 

 Yes, I did see that post. Unfortunately I don't own a car (ah, City living at its best) so I couldn't lug along my amps to contribute to the meet--which sucks. Also, I may be traveling during the month of January. I'm originally from Hawaii so back I go to visit me mum and sis to spend winter in there. As for the Mullards--I've never heard a GEC 6080 so I couldn't tell you. These are my faves though: 1) Tung-Sol 6AS7G; 2) Mullard 6080; and 3) RCA 6AS7G black plates--these have the letters CRC and an anchor symbol on its base.


----------



## kchew

Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Need some advice on a transaction with an ebay seller from Greece.  His id is pavgeris and I bought some NOS NIB Tung-Sol 6SN7's from him.
> 
> He shipped from Greece on 11/11 and they got to New York on the 13th.  Then for some reason unknown to the Post Office, they were sent back to Greece and they remain there to this day.  I have not heard word one from pavgeris about this and just emailed him today about it.  Probably won't hear till later today or maybe even tomorrow given the time difference.
> 
> ...


 

 I've bought a pair of Tung Sol round plates from him and they arrived in Singapore faster than some Hong Kong retailers. He even tested them before shipping and emailed me the photos of them on his tester. I was quite pleased by his communication, so he should reply to you soon.
   
   
  It's agony looking at the round plates though, as Jack told me he'll ship off my WA22 next week. It's gonna be a long wait for me to use my tubes, but looking through this very informative thread I know it's darn worth the wait.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Thinking about trying some Ken Rad VT-231 after hearing you guys talking about them.  Anyone experiencing any microphonics with these in a WA22?  Would love a PM if anyone knows of a good dealer to get a pair.  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Where are you from in Hawaii?  My wife and I get there every year for a few weeks.  Also, If you are in town, I could pick you up.  Thanks for you list of faves.


----------



## mikemalter

> I've bought a pair of Tung Sol round plates from him and they arrived in Singapore faster than some Hong Kong retailers. He even tested them before shipping and emailed me the photos of them on his tester. I was quite pleased by his communication, so he should reply to you soon.
> 
> 
> It's agony looking at the round plates though, as Jack told me he'll ship off my WA22 next week. It's gonna be a long wait for me to use my tubes, but looking through this very informative thread I know it's darn worth the wait.


 

 You are so going to love your WA22.  What are you planning to use as rectifier and power tubes?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, I did see that post. Unfortunately I don't own a car (ah, City living at its best) so I couldn't lug along my amps to contribute to the meet--which sucks. Also, I may be traveling during the month of January. I'm originally from Hawaii so back I go to visit me mum and sis to spend winter in there. As for the Mullards--I've never heard a GEC 6080 so I couldn't tell you. These are my faves though: 1) Tung-Sol 6AS7G; 2) Mullard 6080; and 3) RCA 6AS7G black plates--these have the letters CRC and an anchor symbol on its base.


 


  Clayton, you should really try to get your hands on a pair of GEC 6AS7G or GEC 6080.  PM for GEC 6080 contact if you are interested, the last time I exchange emails with the shop owner, he still have 5 more NOS pair.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You are so going to love your WA22.  What are you planning to use as rectifier and power tubes?


 


  I ordered the EML 5U4G mesh from Jack and I have some Tung Sol 5998s as well. A few days back I pulled the trigger on a pair of GEC 6080s too. I blame this thread and the 6SN7 thread for giving me too many tube ideas for an amp that hasn't arrived yet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Where are you from in Hawaii?  My wife and I get there every year for a few weeks.  Also, If you are in town, I could pick you up.  Thanks for you list of faves.


 

 I was born in Hilo, Hawaii and my mom and sis live in Waikoloa on the east side of the Big Island. My sister works at the Fairmont Orchid Hotel in Kona. It's an incredibly wonderful resort. When I feel the need to get away from Hawaiian suburban bliss, she sets me up at that resort when I come visit. It's really an extravagant place to spend time on the beach--well I'd rather spend what little cash I have left (after my wallet was stricken with Woo-matism) on electron tubes than inflatable tubes. Thanks for the offer to give me a ride to the meet. I shall pm you if I can make it.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Thinking about trying some Ken Rad VT-231 after hearing you guys talking about them.  Anyone experiencing any microphonics with these in a WA22?  Would love a PM if anyone knows of a good dealer to get a pair.  Thanks.


 


  Just FWIW, the Ken Rad VT-231 is notorious for being microphonic.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are starting out at the top!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think we are going to be on Maui in June or July.  Sounds like you have a nice arraingment, very cool.  I get the Woomantism part.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Thinking about trying some Ken Rad VT-231 after hearing you guys talking about them.  Anyone experiencing any microphonics with these in a WA22?  Would love a PM if anyone knows of a good dealer to get a pair.  Thanks.


 


  I have a couple of pairs of the Ken Rad VT-231s and both pairs are dead silent and pick up absolutely no noise.  I could drive a jackhammer into my chassis and I wouldn't hear a thing... other than my amp breaking of course.


----------



## Eee Pee

Hey yo!  Any of you guys have a particular phono stage preference that pairs well with the WA22?  A balanced out would make sense, to go into the WA22.
   
  If it matters, it would be paired up with a VPI HW-19 Jr (couple upgrades), a JMW tonearm and a Grado Sonata (MM cart).  And HD800s.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for any insight.  I've been reading and reading, but phono stages don't seem to get too much discussion time.
   
  Pretty sure a WA22 is in my near future...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Hey yo!  Any of you guys have a particular phono stage preference that pairs well with the WA22?  A balanced out would make sense, to go into the WA22.
> 
> If it matters, it would be paired up with a VPI HW-19 Jr (couple upgrades), a JMW tonearm and a Grado Sonata (MM cart).  And HD800s.
> 
> ...


 

 http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/gcph-phono-preamplifier


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 In case you're interested, you can get a new and modified PSAudio phono stage from Rick Cullen at: http://www.cullencircuits.com/webapps/site/67005/78076/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=285612&b_id=&find_groupid=9539.
   
  A lot of us here have the PS Audio DLIII that were modified by Rick Cullen and he does a super job.  If I were going to get a phono stage and picked the one from PS Audio, I'd have Rick modify it.


----------



## navii

Can I switch the gain settings while my WA6 is on and music is playing? Or is it best to turn it off?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





navii said:


> Can I switch the gain settings while my WA6 is on and music is playing? Or is it best to turn it off?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Welcome and happy listening to your WA6!
   
  This is from Head-Fi's Wiki under the W tab. Responses are from Jack Wu--Woo Audio.
What is the correct way to turn on tube amps with headphones?
  Q #4 is the question you ask:
*4) Is it safe or unsafe to flick the impedance switch in the back while the amp is on/while the music is playing? I always thought no, so I've been turning it off every time before I do so, but wanted to make sure.*
J: You can change the impedance setting while the amp is on and music is playing.


----------



## Skylab

Well, the good news is, there is a nice looking NOS pair of GEC 6AS7G's on EBAY:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260697597929
   
  The bad news is that the seller wants $320 for the pair


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, the good news is, there is a nice looking NOS pair of GEC 6AS7G's on EBAY:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260697597929
> 
> The bad news is that the seller wants $320 for the pair


 

 Not bad, consider how hard these bad boys comes by.  If we spend $400 for TS 6SN7 BGRP, this is a bargain compare by the size.


----------



## Skylab

That's a fair point, I suppose, considering you can get a Sylvania 6SN7GT for $20, the premium demanded for the GEC 6AS7G is in line with that for the TS BGRP.  Still, these could be had for $30-50 each a couple years ago.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's a fair point, I suppose, considering you can get a Sylvania 6SN7GT for $20, the premium demanded for the GEC 6AS7G is in line with that for the TS BGRP.  Still, these could be had for $30-50 each a couple years ago.


 


 That is before we all crazy WA22 owners buying them out.  Oh well, I guess $320 did not scare us, it is a gonna...


----------



## Skylab

Well, someone already jumped on it!  LOL.  Which of you was it...confess now


----------



## jc9394

Not me, but I know who.  I really want it for backup too, maybe next time.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not me, but I know who.  I really want it for backup too, maybe next time.


 

 Not me either. 
   
  I'm still breaking in a pair of GEC 6080's and am going to pick up my NOS NIB Tung-Sol 6SN7's round plates which are waiting for me at the post office.  So I am busy for a few hours.
   
  By the way, what is the difference between the GEC 6080 and the GEC 6AS7's?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Not me either.
> I'm still breaking in a pair of GEC 6080's and am going to pick up my NOS NIB Tung-Sol 6SN7's round plates which are waiting for me at the post office.  So I am busy for a few hours.
> 
> By the way, what is the difference between the GEC 6080 and the GEC 6AS7's?


 

 The 6AS7G's are better.  They actually sound quite a bit different.  The GEC 6AS7G's have a magic in the midrange that I find lacking in the GEC 6080. The 6AS7G also has a more robust bass.  All IMHO, of course.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The 6AS7G's are better.  They actually sound quite a bit different.  The GEC 6AS7G's have a magic in the midrange that I find lacking in the GEC 6080. The 6AS7G also has a more robust bass.  All IMHO, of course.


 


  Plus better soundsatge too, more 3D, adds depth and wider.  For me, this is worth the premium, I listen to a lot of live jazz and classical.  The bass is very well controlled, not saying the GEC 6080 are boomy.


----------



## dmac03

My gec 6as7g's are waiting at the post office for me. I'm looking forward to getting them. I'll be sure to post my impressions after a week or so of use.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> My gec 6as7g's are waiting at the post office for me. I'm looking forward to getting them. I'll be sure to post my impressions after a week or so of use.


 


  Where you live?  What post office it is?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Plus better soundsatge too, more 3D, adds depth and wider.  For me, this is worth the premium, I listen to a lot of live jazz and classical.  The bass is very well controlled, not saying the GEC 6080 are boomy.


 


  Absolutely agreed.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is very good to know.  I have my eye on them and wanted to make sure that they are worth it.  Thanks, guys.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My plan is to wait until every crazy WA22 owner buys one, then hopefully I'll be able to successfully bid on a pair and not spend a fortune.
   
  Then again, I have been known to wish for things that will never happen.


----------



## jc9394

> My plan is to wait until every crazy WA22 owner buys one, then hopefully I'll be able to successfully bid on a pair and not spend a fortune.
> 
> Then again, I have been known to wish for things that will never happen.


 


 Your plan will never work.  Once you got the taste of GEC 6AS7G, you will want an backup pair or two.  I'm in the hunt for a backup now.


----------



## jc9394

Just look at how beautiful she is...  My wife said "I'm a very sick man"


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

With all this talk of expensive tubes, and prices soaring, I'm feeling lucky that I'm able to get the RCA chrome top big bottle 6EW7s for around $15.00 per pair, and they seem to be readily available.
   
  I had posted earlier about wanting a bit more bass for my WA6SE/HD800 combination; I love the Sylvania 6EW7 sound, but after some recommendations here, I found the RCAs to give a bit more bass impact, so I've gotten a few pair and have been using them exclusively.
   
  Just recently though, I've added a pair of Denon AH-D7000s to my arsenal; I'm enjoying the bass response these cans have.  I know they aren't as flat-out accurate as the HD800s, and I'm keeping both, but I find myself switching back to the Sylvania tubes when I'm using the Denons, and rolling in the RCAs for the HD800s.  
   
  I'd seen other posts in different forums about these two headphones being a great complement to each other; I'm finding that to be true so far.  It would be nice to find a pair of headphones that had the mids, highs and soundstage of the HD800, the bass impact of the Denons, and good synergy with the WA6SE, (maybe LCD-2 or T1??) but I guess that's a topic for another forum.
   
  Happy Thanksgiving, all.


----------



## Skylab

Some tubes are NOT expensive, at all.  The 6DE7, 6EW7, and 6FD7 are good examples of such tubes.  It's all supply and demand.  I have never seen any other amp that uses those tube types.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 We are going to have to hold Jack Woo hostage then.  He keeps making WA22's


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just look at how beautiful she is...  My wife said "I'm a very sick man"


 


  Your wife may think that you are a very "sick" man, but you are also a very contented man--unless, of course, another matching set of GEC 6AS7G tubes show up on ebay.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just look at how beautiful she is...  My wife said "I'm a very sick man"


 
  Oh my EML + TSRP + GEC. Definitely a extreme WA22


----------



## jc9394

Wait til you see inside that WA22... I can't hold back because of those huge beer cans inside or like filling regular gas in a F1.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This plan assumes there will not be any NEW WA22 owners coming in with the bug.  Give it some time, I'll eventually be one of them myself!  I doubt the demand for any NOS tube will die off considering the growth of the tube amp business in general in recent years.  This is actually my greatest fear about owning a WA22 in the future.  I would want the best power tubes and I'm scared of how expensive and rare they might be at that point.
   
  Is the GEC really that much better than a Tung sol 6AS7G?  Considering the power tube is often said to impact the sound the least of the three tube types I'm tempted to hit the off button on my "gotta have the best" compulsion for this one when the time comes.  Not that that button seems to have ever been wired to anything.......


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 In my case the GEC 6080 was at a whole new level better than the Tung-sol 6AS7G.  Deeper bass, more detail, much smoother, more holographic and the soundstage/imaging was sharper and more present.  It was totally worth it.  And I understand the GEC 6AS7G is even better than the GEC 6080.
   
  Right now I am breaking in a pair of Tung-sol 6SN7's and have taken a big step backward.  They have replaced a pair of Treasures and they are sounding worse.  I am really hoping that they come around.  I have about 8 hours on them now.  The GEC's started to flower at 20 hours, so I am hoping this muddled and constrained stuff I am hearing will open up again and sound better than when I had the Treasures in there.
   
  Anybody go from Treasures to the Tung-sol 6SN7's?


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> In my case the GEC 6080 was at a whole new level better than the Tung-sol 6AS7G.  Deeper bass, more detail, much smoother, more holographic and the soundstage/imaging was sharper and more present.  It was totally worth it.  And I understand the GEC 6AS7G is even better than the GEC 6080.
> 
> Right now I am breaking in a pair of Tung-sol 6SN7's and have taken a big step backward.  They have replaced a pair of Treasures and they are sounding worse.  I am really hoping that they come around.  I have about 8 hours on them now.  The GEC's started to flower at 20 hours, so I am hoping this muddled and constrained stuff I am hearing will open up again and sound better than when I had the Treasures in there.
> 
> Anybody go from Treasures to the Tung-sol 6SN7's?







I have both Treasure and TS 6SN7, it is worst going from fully burn in Treasure to TS but after you put in around 100 hours on the TS, you will never go back. The Treasure are great but not as details and smaller soundstage than the TS. Another tube I recommend is TS 6F8G, it is still affordable. It beat out the Treasure by a little bit, this is as close to TS BGRP as you get without paying the premium.

Not sure what cable you use on your HD800 but if you have a chance, try a silver cable. It does make a difference to me.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have both Treasure and TS 6SN7, it is worst going from fully burn in Treasure to TS but after you put in around 100 hours on the TS, you will never go back. The Treasure are great but not as details and smaller soundstage than the TS. Another tube I recommend is TS 6F8G, it is still affordable. It beat out the Treasure by a little bit, this is as close to TS BGRP as you get without paying the premium.Not sure what cable you use on your HD800 but if you have a chance, try a silver cable. It does make a difference to me.


 

  
  Ok, thanks for telling me.  My Treasures were fully burnt in.  It is really a big step back when you start breaking in the TS as everything sounds muddled.  Today is the first day, so I guess I have a ways to go.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Alright... who bought the second pair of GEC 6AS7Gs?  I was saying to myself, "well, it's either these or a PS3."
   
  I was literally seconds away from buying them and when I refreshed the page...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Alright... who bought the second pair of GEC 6AS7Gs?  I was saying to myself, "well, it's either these or a PS3."
> 
> I was literally seconds away from buying them and when I refreshed the page...


 

 My wife is going to kill me.  I was just surfing and wound up on the page and before I knew it, I clicked on buy.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 GAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!  When your wife kills you, can you have her ship the tubes to me?
   
  I just noticed something strange, and hopefully someone can clear this up.  These GEC 6AS7Gs on eBay have a cylindrical brown base, whereas the GEC 6AS7Gs I've seen have a more rounded base with a notch near the top:
   
  Last two pairs from eBay:

   
   
   
  Rounded base:


----------



## jc9394

They are the same but the last one is a older one, the changed the base during production. The rounded base are very rare, I think it is during the first production year.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> My wife is going to kill me.  I was just surfing and wound up on the page and before I knew it, I clicked on buy.




<

Looks like we are crazy Woo owners.


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  The RCA 6AS7G, which is about $11, and the Sylvania 6DJ8, which is about $19, are some of my favorite tubes. 
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Some tubes are NOT expensive, at all.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Alright... who bought the second pair of GEC 6AS7Gs?  I was saying to myself, "well, it's either these or a PS3."
> 
> I was literally seconds away from buying them and when I refreshed the page...


 

  
  @ kchew, I know what you mean, no WA22 here yet (Jack said end of November).
   
  @ AudioDude, sorry about that, I got a pair of GEC 6AS7G on ebay yesterday morning (click), then later I saw a pair of Tung-Sol 6F8G (click again)...Glenn's 6F8G adapters click again...I really need that WA22 to try them in.
  So far GEC 6080, TS 6SN7 BGRP, Treasures, EML 5U4G, TS 5998, Syl. 7236....in house ready and to roll!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They are the same but the last one is a older one, the changed the base during production. The rounded base are very rare, I think it is during the first production year.


 


  I have 3 pairs of these - two are the rounded base, one pair is the more common base.  The rounded base are indeed the older ones, and while I think they look cooler, I have noticed no difference in sound.  The internals are identical in both of the GEC's, and the internals (which differ markedly from other 6AS7's) are what make the tube special sounding, IMO.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> @ AudioDude, sorry about that, I got a pair of GEC 6AS7G on ebay yesterday morning (click), then later I saw a pair of Tung-Sol 6F8G (click again)...Glenn's 6F8G adapters click again...I really need that WA22 to try them in.
> So far GEC 6080, TS 6SN7 BGRP, Treasures, EML 5U4G, TS 5998, Syl. 7236....in house ready and to roll!


 

 Looks like we have create a monster here. On another thought, you can send them my way.  I'm only half an hour from you, on a good day, I can probably make it less than 20 minutes.  At least I can start the burn in process for you.
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Rob, you are one lucky guy.  I'm dieing to have a pair of the round base one.  I found one round based one but I did not get it since I have no idea when will I get another NOS round base.


----------



## nututubes

@ jc9394, you sir have indeed created a monster!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Rob, you are one lucky guy.  I'm dieing to have a pair of the round base one.  I found one round based one but I did not get it since I have no idea when will I get another NOS round base


 


  Perhaps, since it's been a few hundred pages, you all will allow me the indulgence of reposting this:


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> @ jc9394, you sir have indeed created a monster!


 

 One more tube you should consider and I completely forgot I have it too.  Brimar CV1988/6SN7GT black glass
   

   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Where you live again?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> One more tube you should consider and I completely forgot I have it too.  Brimar CV1988/6SN7GT black glass


 

 Brimar Black Gold! Stop stop stop stop stop already! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to think of other people other than myself this holiday season. Then again, maybe not.


----------



## mikemalter

I have a question about the Tung-Sol 6SN7's I just bought on eBay.  I was looking at them the other day, and I noticed that the cap (not sure what the proper name is) on the top of the tube assembly is round as in the photo below:
   

   
   
  But, all the photos I have seen of the Tung-Sol 6SN7's that item on the top is shaped like an oval, not round.  The branding on the base looks exactly like that elsewhere, but the branding on the glass is not white, but black so you can only see it if you hold it up to the light in a certian way.  And the boxes, they look old and do pass the musty smell test.
   
  Anybody know what, if any, the difference in the shape of the top makes?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

I think there are two version out there, oval and round. I may be wrong on this but I have seen both.

Clayton, tell me about it. All the NOS tubes out there. We are closing on a house next Tuesday and I'm still check head-fi.


----------



## Skylab

That's called the "mica". There are indeed both round and oval mica versions of the TS BGRP. IIRC, the round mica are the older ones. 

I personally think the sound is identical.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's called the "mica". There are indeed both round and oval mica versions of the TS BGRP. IIRC, the round mica are the older ones.
> 
> I personally think the sound is identical.


 

 Sly,
   
  Thanks for the answer.  I was hoping the shape of the mica was not an issue.  The release on the box is December and November 1942.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Anybody go from Treasures to the Tung-sol 6SN7's?


 

 I can't comment on the Treasures, but the TSRP takes time to settle.  It is a very slow and gradual burn-in unlike some tubes which get most of their changes over with in the first 24 hours.  You just will suddenly realize one day while listening that they have taken on this seductive 3D depth and the soundstage will have a country mile of different layering being presented.  They are surprisingly muted and soft when brand new, so give them time.  This is a good thing really because it confirms your tubes actually were NOS.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The sound is the same, but one of the two types are supposedly more prone to being microphonic.  Which type that is nobody ever seems to clarify, but mine are oval mica and are dead quiet.  To be honest for all the talk I hear about microphonics the only pair of tubes I've ever had which had noise issues were the 6FD7s Jack sent with the amp.  Maybe I've just been lucky?  Any other trouble I've had has always been pin contact issues.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, everything is very muted with a compressed soundstage.  Sounds like I am going in the opposite direction.  Thanks for the encouragement.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 These tubes were originally bought as a backup replacement set for a Canary Reference amplifier.  So, if they were used in conjunction with speakers, I'm going to think that the round mica's are the least microphonic of the two!  It won't matter anyway as I am using them in a headphone amplifier.  Thanks.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Man I am glad I waited!  Just snagged one of two pairs of the GEC 6AS7Gs currently on eBay.  These are from the same seller but going for $184, because they're used and do not have the original boxes.  It states that they test as new, so I guess I'll take his word for it.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Man I am glad I waited!  Just snagged one of two pairs of the GEC 6AS7Gs currently on eBay.  These are from the same seller but going for $184, because they're used and do not have the original boxes.  It states that they test as new, so I guess I'll take his word for it.


 

 Way to go dude!  Glad to hear you got what you were looking for.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well both my sets of the TSRP's (oval mica's) came on like gang busters, I was looking around for a net just in-case my amp started to jump around. The sound-stage, 3D came on very quickly. The down side was with both sets for about the first 5 min there was a hum, but after that the hum was gone completely. After about a week of burn-in the TSRP's settled down.
  The Treasures are good but the nos TSRP (oval mica) is on a different level, at least for my amp.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When you say they came on as gangbusters, how many hours before they started sounding really good, or where they good out of the box?


----------



## mikemalter

Waiting for Gadot, er, sorry, my Tung-Sols to break in.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great out of the box, except for the 5 min of hum. I have never heard a tube make as big of impact on a amp as these TSRPs out of the box. I first just got one set, within a day I ordered a second set. I only used the second set for about 15 min just to make sure they were the same and mirrored the first set, they did even the hum was the same.
  I did ask the guy I got both sets from about the hum when I ordered the second set and as he said " after being asleep for so many years you can expect that" He was right.


----------



## mikemalter

> Great out of the box, except for the 5 min of hum. I have never heard a tube make as big of impact on a amp as these TSRPs out of the box. I first just got one set, within a day I ordered a second set. I only used the second set for about 15 min just to make sure they were the same and mirrored the first set, they did even the hum was the same.
> I did ask the guy I got both sets from about the hum when I ordered the second set and as he said " after being asleep for so many years you can expect that" He was right.


 

 Which Woo model?  Are they round or oval micas?  Also, what power and rectifier was there?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

I found out some new information about my new Tung-sol 6SN7's.  The round mica's were not produced after 1942.  From 1943 onward only the oval mica's were produced.  Oval and round mica production overlapped in 1942.
   

   
  As for sound quality, all comments that I read were subjective, and everyone seemed very happy that they had a pair.
   
  Also, one guy said that they really sounded good paired with Sylvania 7236.  This is interesting to me because those tubes seemed wild and I wonder if the TS tames them so to speak.  I really liked what the 7236 did, only it did too much of it.  After I get my TS settled, I'm going to put the Sylvania's back in to take another listen.  I really liked the Treasures GEC 6080 combination.
   
  He also said he otherwise needed much more gain with the TS and I am wondering if others here had that experience where they had to increase gain to get the same sound level?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> > Great out of the box, except for the 5 min of hum. I have never heard a tube make as big of impact on a amp as these TSRPs out of the box. I first just got one set, within a day I ordered a second set. I only used the second set for about 15 min just to make sure they were the same and mirrored the first set, they did even the hum was the same.
> > I did ask the guy I got both sets from about the hum when I ordered the second set and as he said " after being asleep for so many years you can expect that" He was right.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 WA5LE (300B amp)
   
  As I said oval. From what I have read round and oval will sound the same, but there has been at least one post saying that the round may be a little noise. I have posted a link to all this info more than once.
  .
  At the time I was using a matched pair of Treasure 300B's and the EML 5U4Gs (new redesigned). I did feel the Treasure 300B's where holding back the TSRP's and also I felt that the mids where lacking a little bit. Anyway that is what promoted me to go after the original WE300B's in a matched nos pair, I got very lucky and found a matched pair (date code 26/56) of nos WE300B's. On a side note the WE300B's had the same hum for the first 5 min as my TSRP.
   
  Up until I got my HE6 headphones I felt the WA5 was over kill, but because the HE6 are so power hungry it turns out that the WA5 is one of only a few headphones amps that have the power to properly drive these headphones.


----------



## SpudHarris

I have been listening with these for the past few days and I think they are absolutely wonderful tubes. They aren't 'True' Bad Boys but the seller says they have similar plates and bottom foil getter.
   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   I just wondered how much different 'True' Bad Boys would be and if anyone knows where I could get a pair as I really love the tone of these tubes. These could then be my 'Almost' Bad Boy back up pair....
   
  [size=large]  [/size]


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have been listening with these for the past few days and I think they are absolutely wonderful tubes. They aren't 'True' Bad Boys but the seller says they have similar plates and bottom foil getter.
> 
> I just wondered how much different 'True' Bad Boys would be and if anyone knows where I could get a pair as I really love the tone of these tubes. These could then be my 'Almost' Bad Boy back up pair....
> 
> [size=large]  [/size]


 

 Spud,
   
  When I was researching information about my new Tung-Sol 6SN7's last night, someone who appeared knowledgable to me at least, said that during the 40's, for a while, these tubes were rebranded by a lot of other companies.  So, from a sale or resale perspective, the cost of the tubes would not draw a premium, but sonically are equivalent.  That is what I have read and I haven't heard the difference between the two.
   
  Are you asking where you can get a pair of Tung-sol 6SN7's?  I search on eBay and Audiogon.  The prices on Audiogon seem to be lower, but they are not as available there as on eBay.


----------



## SpudHarris

Sorry Mike, I've miss led you I think. I'm after a pair of Sylvania 'Bad Boys'. The tubes in the picture are not actual Bad Boys but are similar in construction. I would love to track down a pair of Real Deal Bad Boys......
   
  I have a couple of pairs of Tung-Sol round plate 6SN7's and enjoy them very much but I'm curious about the Bad Boys especially if the sound better than my 'Almost' Bad Boys....


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Sorry Mike, I've miss led you I think. I'm after a pair of Sylvania 'Bad Boys'. The tubes in the picture are not actual Bad Boys but are similar in construction. I would love to track down a pair of Real Deal Bad Boys......
> 
> I have a couple of pairs of Tung-Sol round plate 6SN7's and enjoy them very much but I'm curious about the Bad Boys especially if the sound better than my 'Almost' Bad Boys....


 
  No prob, Spud.
   
  Being new to this, can you tell me what a Sylvania "Bad Boy" is?  I'm interested in learning as much as I can about tubes.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## SpudHarris

Mike, I'm sure others will chime in here and help both of us determine how to identify a true Bad Boy tube. By all accounts they are very similar to the tubes in my original post (which sound awesome). Bad Boy tubes are renouned for their superior tonality and as mine are not the real deal but sound so nice I really must track a set of Bad Boys down.
   
  Any help in identifying or sourcing a set would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## jerico

Hi gang - I know I am a year and a half late, but I placed an order for a WA22 this morning!  I went for all of the tube upgrades - I like to roll tubes, and I also like having spares, so it seemed a good place to start with both.
   
  I'll be using it primarily with my T1's, with a Wyred4Sound DAC2 as a source, fed lossless files optically via an Airport Express (or my laptop nearby to use the async USB, or to listen to high-res files).
   
  Can't wait!


----------



## TheAudioDude

The 6SN7 reference thread is an excellent all-in-one resource for 6SN7 types.
   
  From the thread, I gathered that true bad boys have green lettering on the base w/ three holes in each plate, and are not tall glass.  The general consensus seems to be that they were made in 1952 (date code is vertical, ex. 2xx).  I have seen a lot of 'bad boys' on eBay or Audiogon that match this, except some have a 3xx date code (1953).  The only thing I'm not 100% clear on is if the 1953 'bad boys' are tonally the same as the sought-after 1952s.
   
  Also, from seeing a lot of eBay auctions and whatnot, I believe that true bad boys have sort of a wispy 'smoke' ring near the top:


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> The 6SN7 reference thread is an excellent all-in-one resource for 6SN7 types.
> 
> From the thread, I gathered that true bad boys have green lettering on the base w/ three holes in each plate, and are not tall glass.  The general consensus seems to be that they were made in 1952 (date code is vertical, ex. 2xx).  I have seen a lot of 'bad boys' on eBay or Audiogon that match this, except some have a 3xx date code (1953).  The only thing I'm not 100% clear on is if the 1953 'bad boys' are tonally the same as the sought-after 1952s.


 
   
  From what I have read on other sites, the Bad Boys are not limited to the plates with 3 holes.  According to Brent Jessee's site "  
A side note about Bad Boys, there were versions with 2 rivet holes in each plate, and versions with 3 holes. Both types sound identical. Don't fall for the bogus story that only the 3 rivet hole types are the true "Bad Boys"! You will miss out on some great sound from the 2 hole type, since the 3 hole versions are more difficult to find, more expensive elsewhere, and don't sound any different! I suspect the "3-hole only" story got started by my competition to justify charging a higher price for these tubes!


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks gents for the input.
   
  I am however even more confused now because my understanding was that Bad Boys were bottom getter tubes. Man this is a real minefield for the inexperienced buyer  especially as such tubes are so high in value.
   
  I will do some research I think in the hope I get the real deal.
   
  As I write I am listening to the tubes pictured in my initial post and man these really float my boat


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hi gang - I know I am a year and a half late, but I placed an order for a WA22 this morning!  I went for all of the tube upgrades - I like to roll tubes, and I also like having spares, so it seemed a good place to start with both.
> 
> I'll be using it primarily with my T1's, with a Wyred4Sound DAC2 as a source, fed lossless files optically via an Airport Express (or my laptop nearby to use the async USB, or to listen to high-res files).
> 
> Can't wait!


 

 Jerico,
   
  Welcome!  You're going to love your WA22.  So what tubes did you get?


----------



## mikemalter

I have an electrical question for those so inclined.
   
  Most of the time my WA22 sits behind a PS Audio P600 power regenerator that can output various voltages and frequencies.  Currently I am feeding the WA22 120 volts at 60Hz.  The problem now is that the regenerator is old and is starting to produce a little bit of DC which is causing the transformers on my DAC and WA22 to rattle.  No problem there, from time to time these units get this problem, and PS Audio fixes them.
   
  The issue is that now I need to feed my WA22 wall power.  Unfortunately the voltage varies based on time of day and usage in the neighborhood.  I have some diagnostic equipment here at home to support my computer lab and AC voltage gets at high at 127 volts.  The result on my WA22 is that it runs much hotter when plugged into the wall then when it is running on a consistent 120 volts.
   
  Does anyone know what this higher voltage does to the life of tubes and to the WA22 itself?  If I put my hand on the unit when it runs behind the P600 it only gets warm to the touch, however when running off of wall AC power, the unit actually gets hot, almost too hot for me to leave my hand on it.
   
  Any thoughts?


----------



## Skylab

My wall voltage is often as high as 127 volts. It may shorten component life a little bit, but shouldn't too much. It should have zero impact on the tubes, though, as they're being fed DC from the power transformer.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My wall voltage is often as high as 127 volts. It may shorten component life a little bit, but shouldn't too much. It should have zero impact on the tubes, though, as they're being fed DC from the power transformer.


 

 Sky, when you put your hand on your amplifier, how hot does it feel?  Is it slightly warm to the touch, or is it hot?


----------



## Skylab

If I put my hand on the transformer case of my WA6 or WA2, they are quite warm, but not hot.


----------



## mikemalter

Thanks, Sky.  I really love these forums.  Anytime there is a question or a problem, there is always someone around to help with an answer.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Thanks gents for the input.
> 
> I am however even more confused now because my understanding was that Bad Boys were bottom getter tubes. Man this is a real minefield for the inexperienced buyer  especially as such tubes are so high in value.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Actually, you're right.  The bad boys have a bottom getter... my mistake.


----------



## Skylab

And bad boys are tall bottle. The short bottle, top getter tubes pictured above are 6SN7W, also very nice, desirable tubes.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have an electrical question for those so inclined.
> 
> Most of the time my WA22 sits behind a PS Audio P600 power regenerator that can output various voltages and frequencies.  Currently I am feeding the WA22 120 volts at 60Hz.  The problem now is that the regenerator is old and is starting to produce a little bit of DC which is causing the transformers on my DAC and WA22 to rattle.  No problem there, from time to time these units get this problem, and PS Audio fixes them.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, now's the time to upgrade to the PS Audio Power Plant Premier; it used to sell for $2100.00; lots of places now have it for $!500.00; then you'd have no problem generating a steady 120v.  I think Silly Sally uses one of these.  I've been thinking about getting one for my home theatre setup.  I've never seen anything but great reviews for that unit.


----------



## Xcalibur255

There is probably more misinformation about the Bad Boy Sylvania than any other tube.  I'm not even sure if my understanding is correct still.  Lots of people pass off anything with 3-hole plates as a Bad Boy, including the top getter tubes which are a totally different thing.  There are two general camps about belief on this subject:  the first is that the real Bad Boy is a side foil getter tube with a polished silver rectangular top mica, copper grid posts, black t-plates with three punch holes per side on each plate (NOT two), and small green base printing with the JAN-CHS 6SN7GT moniker and a vertically printed date code starting with a '2' (identifying a 1952 tube).  The other camp is folks like Brent Jessee who claim any black t-plate side getter Sylvania is a true bad boy and that all the above was made up by somebody to increase the value of a particular tube they happened to have a lot of once upon a time.  It could also have been rumor circulated to deflect buyers and allow people who were 'in' on the lie to grab up the other vintages for lower prices.  I think there is some truth to both.  I do think it has to be a three hole per plate side getter, and I think it also has to be a JAN tube as well.  Supposedly the source of the real bad boy was a reactivation of some old equipment used to produce VT-231 military tubes in the 40's, only some updated construction and design resulted in a superior tube to the original with good bass (lack of bass is the major criticism of the 40's era VT-231 sylvanias).  The other Sylvania tubes made on their normal equipment represent the look and sound of the tube Spud Harris owns.
   
  Is my understanding correct?  I'm not sure, but it is what I chose to believe.  My own pair of Bad Boys fits the description of a "true" Bad Boy to a 't' with only one exception:  mine were made in 1951 instead of 1952.  I think mine are the real deal, they sound just like people describe them in the Reference thread, and I find the idea of this special vintage of tube being produced for only a single year to be awfully suspicious.  I think that part of it is the lie, probably for one of the reasons I mentioned above or maybe both.
   
  I'm really happy with my tubes though.  They do not have the 3D layering of soundstage nor the incredible low level detail of the TSRP, but the treble is unlike anything else I've ever heard and makes classical music an absolute joy to listen to.  The sense of air around each note is captivating, it's like you've never heard the treble range presented correctly before until you've heard it on these tubes.  Violins are especially sweet and beautiful on them.
   
  edit:  I have a picture I posted way back on page 350 if anybody is curious what my Bad Boys look like.  I can't believe how much this thread has grown in just the last few months.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was actually thinking about the 1500, but what ultimately I think I'm going to do is have mine repaired and possibly upgraded.  Rick Cullen also has some modifications that he does, and I may have him mod it.  I can get a modded package for $500.  One thing though, I really love what it does and I'm not going to be without one for long.


----------



## mikemalter

Doing some cleaning and thought I'd take a look at the WA22 transformers since I'd never seen them before.  They small very oily when you open the caps on the top.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hi gang - I know I am a year and a half late, but I placed an order for a WA22 this morning!  I went for all of the tube upgrades - I like to roll tubes, and I also like having spares, so it seemed a good place to start with both.
> 
> I'll be using it primarily with my T1's, with a Wyred4Sound DAC2 as a source, fed lossless files optically via an Airport Express (or my laptop nearby to use the async USB, or to listen to high-res files).
> 
> Can't wait!


 
  Congrats.
   
  I would ask Jack about using your T1's with the WA22. I can't say for sure that your WA22 has the power it takes to drive your T1's but if its true what I am reading about the T1's on the HE6 thread being compared to the HE6's then you may not want to go the WA22 route. The WA22 and the WA6SE has been reported on that thread not to be able to drive the HE6's properly.
  I have a WA5LE and its one of the only head amps that can properly power the HE6, even still for movies I have my WA5LE volume knob turn to about 1 o'clock, for music a little less.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I have the PS Premier, One problem with the Premier (or any power regenerate) is that you can overload it, the PS 600 has a much lower rating than the Premier for power out put. I have removed my monitor from the Premier and now am using it for my WA5LE and supporting equipment only. I am using a Belkin PureAV® PF31 Home Theater for my monitor.
  If I where Mike I would try using the PS 600 just for his WA22 and see what happens. Heat is a killer over time and simply has demisted the power output of his PS 600


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sil,
   
  Thanks for the advice.  Do you like what the PS Premier brings to the party?  How many watts does your WA5LE use?  When I had my P600 downstairs, I loved having my TV plugged into it.  The picture was so rich looking.  I only had front end equipment plugged in, my main amp was plugged directly into the wall.
   
  I talked to Paul McGowen over at PS Audio yesterday, and he says the transformer hum that just started sounds like a DC issue and they can fix it.  Soon after the P600 came out, earlier units had issues with DC power bleeding into the output which will cause transformer hum or rattle.  There was a fix and you had to replace a chip, which I did.  Probably it just hit the end of life.  I've had this unit since 2000, so it does not surprise me that it may need a little TLC.  I think if I am going to put some money into it, I may have Rick Cullen do one of his modifications on it, they can isolate the plugs from each other, put in a gain cell and add additional filtering capability which may be worth it.
   
  Currently, I am only running my headphone system through the unit.  I have my WA22 plugged directly into it, and then I also have an ultimate outlet plugged into it which is feeding my DLIII DAC and Wadia i170.  The ultimate outlet will isolate the digital domain from the purely analog WA22.  With all of that in there, I am only using 40 watts maximum so there is no overheading or overloading of the system.


----------



## mikemalter

Well, I just hit 31 hours in breaking in my Tung-sol 6SN7G BGRP's and everything is just beginning, beginning to open up.  When people say this tube takes a while to break in, they are not kidding.  I have never heard such a complete sonic change before.  It's like little gremlins snuck in there with the tube fairy and rebuilt the tube while I was away.
   
  Anyway, I am starting to like this and I hope it keeps changing for the better since I am at only 31 hours.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sil,
> 
> Thanks for the advice.  Do you like what the PS Premier brings to the party?  How many watts does your WA5LE use?  When I had my P600 downstairs, I loved having my TV plugged into it.  The picture was so rich looking.  I only had front end equipment plugged in, my main amp was plugged directly into the wall.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't really recommend a power conditioner unless you really have big problems with your power, the reason being is that a power genorator like mine is not a very good bang for your buck but yes It is helpful. However I did have my first head amp (LD IVSE) blow out because of  127 volts max (considered in the normal range) that can come into my house. I don't notice any really change in PQ on my 60" plasma Pioneer 141, and I would because I am very fussy about ISF calibrations and do my own. I use a I1Pro meter, Calman and Controlcal software along with calibration disc's for color/gray patterns and my lap top.
  imo you are better off getting the holy grail of tubes or better amp and or headphones.

 Don't know how many watts my WA5LE uses, never asked Jack but the WA5LE did put a heavy strain on my PS and that is why I took my monitor off the PS.
   
  Yes a transformer hum is generally one of two things, transformer getting weak or a over load on the transformer.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A power conditioner is a different animal from a power regenerator, and I think that a power regenerater is worth looking into for people who want to get the most from their systems be it audio or video.  Most people already have problematic power that they are generally not aware of.  By the time power gets to your wall, it sinewave properties are misshaped and are effecting audio and video to that degree.
   
  A power conditioner will only filter to a limited extent certian types and varying degrees of line noise. 
   
  A power regenerator will completely rebuild your power so that, as with the PS Audio and other regeneration products, an exact frequency, voltage and waveform will be issued and almost all line noise will be gone.  The waveform will be near-perfect, and that cleaner power will cause distinct differences to be heard or seen.  Most power hitting our equipment is really dirty power with misshapen sine waves.  Additionally, it is my understanding that our equipment only draws power from the top and bottom portions of the sine wave, and that shape has a direct correlation to audio and video output.
   
  All kinds of line noise have changed the properties of the power that we are passing through to our gear as powerlines function as antennas and allow its current to be shaped by all the different signal frequencies bouncing off of them.  When we use regenerated power, it's a near perfect sine wave at an exact and consistent frequency and exact and consistant voltage.
   
  As you can tell I am a big believer in the virtues of regenerated power, and I like the higher quality of the audio and video available from regenerated power.
   
  To address your point about the holy grail; from my perspective, good tubes and better amps are even better when fed regenerated power.  I do agree with your point that regenerated power alone won't correctly calibrate your TV.  However, in my opinion, a properly calibrated TV will look even better fed regenerated power.
   
  This stuff about regenerated power is just my thing.  I like it and am not saying it's a must for everyone.  Just sharing my thought process and values to add to the discussion.
   
  A few other related items.  Doesn't the front panel of your PS Audio PowerPlant Premier have a readout that indicates watt usage?  That was what I was referring to when I asked you how many watts your Woo amp consumed.  How do you know your TV put a strain on your PPP if you didn't look at the readout of watts consumed?  As to your point about transformer hum, I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.  I wrote that my transformers are making noise because of the indtroduction of small amounts of DC by the P600.  How does an overloaded or weak transformer factor into this discussion?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Doing some cleaning and thought I'd take a look at the WA22 transformers since I'd never seen them before.  They small very oily when you open the caps on the top.


 

 Thanks. I've always wondered what were housed in those "boxes." When covered the lids feel very warm, would it be okay to leave the lids off to help keep the amp cooler when on? Or do the lids protect us from harmful x rays and other invisible forces?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A power-conditioner is a different animal from a power re-generator, and I think that a power regenerater is worth looking into for people who want to get the most from their systems be it audio or video.  Most people already have problematic power that they are generally not aware of.  By the time power gets to your wall, it sinewave properties are misshaped and are effecting audio and video to that degree.
> 
> A power conditioner will only filter to a limited extent certian types and varying degrees of line noise.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes Mike I know what the diffidence between a power conditioner and a re-generator is, I have both. I have read the same thing you are saying from PS audio.

 Mike as you can read from the post just above mine, this topic is a no win. I have had many discussions on this topic on AVS and find it wiser not to get involved.
  In most cases a re-generator is not that big of a improvement, yes the environmental factor will come into play in some cases if you are talking about audio and to a even lessor degree with video.
   
  No my PS Premier doesn't show what you are talking about. How I can tell if there is a overload is because the voltage output will drop and the heat issue will come into play.
   
  I thought you where talking about the power re-generator, if you are saying your WA22 transformers are the cause of this hum then you have a problem and I would stop using your re-generator. If the hum persists in your WA22 and you have it plugged directly in a wall socket then you know its your regenerate, if not check for ground loops and try removing the isolation plug that you have plugged into your P600. If non of the above then you may have damaged the transformers or something internal.
   
  Anyway if you are that big of a believer in power re-generator then you may want to look into the PS Premier that I have. Not only does my PS Premier have the swine wave correction as yours does but it also has whats called pure wave and also demagnetizing of your equipment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Disclaimer! I am not endorsing the pure wave or demagnetizing features, imo I would say use at your own risk.


----------



## jerico

Hi SillySally - yep, I checked with Jack about this, he said the WA2, WA22, and WA6SE are all good candidates to use with the T1.  But thanks for the heads-up.
   
  Actually, if you go on the Woo Website, to the headphone section, you can select a set and see what they recommend as far as amp compatibility.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I keep the lids on and let my WA22 pull double duty and do a little [size=10pt]barbecuing [/size]of vegitables.  I figure the olive oil will keep all the parts lubricated.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 SillySally,
   
  It sounded from your answer that you did not understand the difference between a regenerator and power conditioner because of the way you were interchanging the terms.
   
  We differ on the basis for this discussion; from my perspective it's not a question of win or loose with these threads whatever the topic.  In my mind they are an exchange of ideas were other people can read the conversation and be exposed to ideas they might not have been aware of, and to think about their setups in different ways and get the benefits of that.  There are many different schools of thought out there, and it's good to be exposed to them.
   
  I understand that you think power regenerators do not result in that big of an improvement in audio and to a lesser degree in video as you say.  My experience is exactly the opposite.  To my thinking big gains come from clean and stable power that a regenerator brings, and consequently, power regenerators are at the foundation of any audio system I setup.  And I'd encourage everyone to look into the issue further and do their own research.  Also, if you ever get a chance to go to any of the professional shows and look at what vendors are using in their rooms behind the scenes to support their presentations, you'll see a lot of them use power regenerators so their equipment will sound good.  I used to do a lot of equipment reviews for Positive-Feedback online, and when I went to those shows, everyone was complaining about how power was degrading their presentations.  The smart ones used regenerators.
   
  I never wrote anywhere that my WA22 transformers were the cause of the hum, and I am not sure how you got to that, but no matter.  The issue is that the P600's and some of the other later models, rarely, might introduce small amounts of DC current into the output which will make transformers chatter.  Thank you for your suggestion for checking for ground loops.  I am certian I have not damaged anything.
   
  Yes, I have looked into the PPP and I don't need pure wave and I have enough power output that I can keep using the P600.  I'm interested in just pure and clean 60Hz, 120 volts - that goes double when I use my turntable.  What I might do is have Rick Cullen modify my unit with additional filtration, gain cells and isolation of the ports.
   
  Thanks for your perspective.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I keep the lids on and let my WA22 pull double duty and do a little [size=10pt]barbecuing [/size]of vegitables.  I figure the olive oil will keep all the parts lubricated.


 

 That satellite view of your exposed WA22 reminds me of the face of my old Teddy Bear. It's probably why I am attracted to its look.


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## mikemalter

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clayton sf said:


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 I was thinking of using it with the lids off because it is such an unusual look, but the oily smell from the transformers is strong and overpowering so I put them back on.


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## SpudHarris

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> There is probably more misinformation about the Bad Boy Sylvania than any other tube.  I'm not even sure if my understanding is correct still.  Lots of people pass off anything with 3-hole plates as a Bad Boy, including the top getter tubes which are a totally different thing.  There are two general camps about belief on this subject:  the first is that the real Bad Boy is a side foil getter tube with a polished silver rectangular top mica, copper grid posts, black t-plates with three punch holes per side on each plate (NOT two), and small green base printing with the JAN-CHS 6SN7GT moniker and a vertically printed date code starting with a '2' (identifying a 1952 tube).  The other camp is folks like Brent Jessee who claim any black t-plate side getter Sylvania is a true bad boy and that all the above was made up by somebody to increase the value of a particular tube they happened to have a lot of once upon a time.  It could also have been rumor circulated to deflect buyers and allow people who were 'in' on the lie to grab up the other vintages for lower prices.  I think there is some truth to both.  I do think it has to be a three hole per plate side getter, and I think it also has to be a JAN tube as well.  Supposedly the source of the real bad boy was a reactivation of some old equipment used to produce VT-231 military tubes in the 40's, only some updated construction and design resulted in a superior tube to the original with good bass (lack of bass is the major criticism of the 40's era VT-231 sylvanias).  The other Sylvania tubes made on their normal equipment represent the look and sound of the tube Spud Harris owns.
> 
> Is my understanding correct?  I'm not sure, but it is what I chose to believe.  My own pair of Bad Boys fits the description of a "true" Bad Boy to a 't' with only one exception:  mine were made in 1951 instead of 1952.  I think mine are the real deal, they sound just like people describe them in the Reference thread, and I find the idea of this special vintage of tube being produced for only a single year to be awfully suspicious.  I think that part of it is the lie, probably for one of the reasons I mentioned above or maybe both.
> 
> ...


 

 Many thanks for this most informative reply. Kind of hoped that it would be you to add something as my memory told me you had experience with the Bad Boys. I hope that if the real deal sounds better than the tubes I bought, I can score a pair at some point. These have been in my WA6 for the past week and although I have TS-RPBG's these are so addictive.


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## Xcalibur255

Analytically speaking the TSRP is definitely the better tube, but there is something emotionally satisfying about the Bad Boys that makes them very endearing.  They don't suit all genres of music well IMO which is their only flaw in my eyes.  I find the faster the tempo in the song the less I enjoy them, they don't seem to quite keep up on the PRaT side of things.  But slow music with ambience or string instruments is just haunting.
   
  If you are liking these as much as the TSRP I think it would be worth seeking some out SpudHarris.  Real Bad Boys which fit the total description tend to reach up close to $200 on eBay bidding.  The tubes you have usually end in the 70-100 range based on what I've personally seen.  I grabbed mine from a buy it now auction for $200 because it was the first pair I had ever found which correctly fit the description (except for the date), and to this day I've only seen 3 pairs show on eBay total which look like mine.  One of those was rebranded a Tung Sol tube and it went for under a hundred bucks.  Everything fit, including the year of manufacture and the print font/color only the Sylvania name was not on them.  I think the purists would say this couldn't have been a Bad Boy but both the seller and myself were quite sure it was.  I was really tempted to bid on those, but was really hurting from just having bought the TSRP at the time.  I feel the pair of BB's I bought were worth the price I paid and am glad I have them in the collection.  I was afraid my other tubes would seem obsolete after getting the TSRP, but I've found each tube in my box still has its place.
   
  Best thing is to be patient and watch the auction sites for an extended period of time.  These tubes are quite rare now because they have been aggressively sought out by 6SN7 collectors for years now.  The TSRP, despite being so much more expensive, seems to be far less rare than the Bad Boy.  Lost of tube sellers throw the Bad Boy monikor onto tubes which aren't too.


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## Silent One

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mikemalter said:


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 I too, have wondered what's down under those lids. Perhaps, you could fabricate or have fabricated, some heat-tempered acrylic covers. Then you, and those of us you invite over to dinner could look down into your amp with added appreciation.


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## mikemalter

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silent one said:


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 I was thinking of replacing one of the tops with a grate and then I could grill on one side and have a flat top on the other!  Possibly I could then have a mini-espresso machine made that would fit in the center and would pour you guys espresso ristritto's after dinner!


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## Xcalibur255

Just received a Tung Sol 5U4G I nabbed off eBay for cheap.  I wanted to get a feel for the 5U4G sound, and I must say I'm impressed with this tube.  It sounds a lot like the EML 274B to be honest, very competitive in most areas.  The major difference is vocal focus.  This tube places you more front of stage for vocals where as the 274B is more middle hall.  There is this sense of [vocals] and then [everything else] separation that isn't quite natural to my ears, but anybody who values upfront vocal presentation will appreciate it.  It sounds great for the $15 I paid for it.  Good detail and soundstage, very good tuneful bass, nice detail and separation.  Great tonal balance, quite similar to the EML here too.  This will make a great backup tube in case anything ever happens to the EML.  It puts my old RCA 5R4 to shame.
   
  For people wishing they could have the EML but can't drop the money I honestly think this makes a fine stand in for a tiny fraction of the price.  I'm not saying it is as good as an EML, especially not without listening and comparing more, but it is a similar sound and all the important performance factors are in the same league.  I could listen to this tube full time no problem.
   
  edit:  I wanted to throw some more out there to make sure I'm not leading anybody on with my comments here.  This is no budget EML tube, but it is a very nice sounding NOS rectifier nevertheless.  I think a lot of what I'm hearing is mesh plate vs. solid plate too.  This Tung Sol doesn't have the impressive sense of space and ambience when the recording calls for it that the EML can reproduce.  The difference there is much easier to detect.  It also cannot pull out the low level details and textures the way the EML does.  Also, the Tung Sol starts to struggle to keep things sorted when there is a lot going on in the recording.  The 274B keeps everything completely resolved.  This is still the nicest rectifier I have personally listened to aside from the EML 274B.  Very good sounding all around with a nice balanced presentation.


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## illharmonics

I've had my WA6 for a few weeks now, along with my fresh HD650s, and something feels off. I've roughly 100 hours on both the phones and amp but it leaves me wanting more. I've eq'd a bit of bass into the phones to fill them in, but something isn't right. 
   
  Any thoughts? Is it my dac? Is it my source (I listen to lossless files)? Is it me?


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## Henerenry

If you are going to roll 5u4g, then you have to go the rounded base u52, in either black or brown bass, they are a step up from the tungsolds, but they go for eml money.


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## mikemalter

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jc9394 said:


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  JC, how long do you think it should take to burn in a pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7G's?  I've got 49 hours on them now and while they have opened up a bit, they sound somewhat harsh and I have to turn the volume up high to get a fuller sound, then it's like it's too loud.  They also sound a little edgy.  Is this par for the course?  Remember, the ones I got are with round micas and I see that everybody else has them with the oval micas.  I am starting to wonder if the oval mica Tung-Sol's are the ones to get, not the round micas?
   
  Thoughts?


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## balderon

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> I've had my WA6 for a few weeks now, along with my fresh HD650s, and something feels off. I've roughly 100 hours on both the phones and amp but it leaves me wanting more. I've eq'd a bit of bass into the phones to fill them in, but something isn't right.
> 
> Any thoughts? Is it my dac? Is it my source (I listen to lossless files)? Is it me?


 
   
  I am not familiar with you dac and cannot say if that is the problem. I can only pass along my experience. Are you using stock tubes? After breaking in my WA6 I ended up rolling different tubes to get the sound I was looking for. My first upgrade was to replace the drivers with 6EW7's. This inexpensive upgrade improved not only the bass but also the mids/highs. I ended up replacing the 6EW7's with a different tube but IMO the 6EW7 gives you a good bang for the buck. The next significant upgrade (not cheap) was to replace the rectifier. I first tried the Sophia Princess 274B mesh. This tube greatly improved the soundstage but the highs were a little harsh for my ears. I upgraded the rectifier to the EML 5U4G mesh and have been very happy since. Scan recent posts by Xcalibur255 in this thread for less expensive replacement rectifiers.


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## flaming_june

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> I've had my WA6 for a few weeks now, along with my fresh HD650s, and something feels off. I've roughly 100 hours on both the phones and amp but it leaves me wanting more. I've eq'd a bit of bass into the phones to fill them in, but something isn't right.
> 
> Any thoughts? Is it my dac? Is it my source (I listen to lossless files)? Is it me?


 

  
  It's either you dac or you're accustomed to heavier bass or a different presentation.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> I've had my WA6 for a few weeks now, along with my fresh HD650s, and something feels off. I've roughly 100 hours on both the phones and amp but it leaves me wanting more. I've eq'd a bit of bass into the phones to fill them in, but something isn't right.
> 
> Any thoughts? Is it my dac? Is it my source (I listen to lossless files)? Is it me?


 

 Several members here have owned or heard your pairing: WA6/HD650. You'll likely get more thoughts on what you could expect from that pairing later today. What's bothering you about your system could be any number of things. For one, 100 hours isn't enough to judge a 'Woo'. My first change in my amp's character (WA6SE) came at hour 102. Next big change at 225. Another at 310, with the last change coming at hour 405. 
   
  My headphones (Denons) blossomed at hours 25; 75; 125 & 320 before settling. Also, stock tubes could leave you wanting a bit more as well (understatement). Could you tell us what tubes are in your Woo? What are you using for interconnects both digital & analogue? Lastly, I would double check your digital out options (switch) on the Yamaha in case there is more than one option.


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## nututubes

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silent one said:


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 I would like to ask any member how the above mentioned run time hours are recorded.


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## nututubes

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Analytically speaking the TSRP is definitely the better tube, but there is something emotionally satisfying about the Bad Boys that makes them very endearing.  They don't suit all genres of music well IMO which is their only flaw in my eyes.  I find the faster the tempo in the song the less I enjoy them, they don't seem to quite keep up on the PRaT side of things.  But slow music with ambience or string instruments is just haunting.
> 
> If you are liking these as much as the TSRP I think it would be worth seeking some out SpudHarris.  Real Bad Boys which fit the total description tend to reach up close to $200 on eBay bidding.  The tubes you have usually end in the 70-100 range based on what I've personally seen.  I grabbed mine from a buy it now auction for $200 because it was the first pair I had ever found which correctly fit the description (except for the date), and to this day I've only seen 3 pairs show on eBay total which look like mine.  One of those was rebranded a Tung Sol tube and it went for under a hundred bucks.  Everything fit, including the year of manufacture and the print font/color only the Sylvania name was not on them.  I think the purists would say this couldn't have been a Bad Boy but both the seller and myself were quite sure it was.  I was really tempted to bid on those, but was really hurting from just having bought the TSRP at the time.  I feel the pair of BB's I bought were worth the price I paid and am glad I have them in the collection.  I was afraid my other tubes would seem obsolete after getting the TSRP, but I've found each tube in my box still has its place.
> 
> Best thing is to be patient and watch the auction sites for an extended period of time.  These tubes are quite rare now because they have been aggressively sought out by 6SN7 collectors for years now.  The TSRP, despite being so much more expensive, seems to be far less rare than the Bad Boy.  Lost of tube sellers throw the Bad Boy monikor onto tubes which aren't too.


 


 @Xcalibur255, may I ask if these look like a true bad boy? http://cgi.ebay.com/Sylvania-Bad-Boy-6SN7GT-Tubes-Matched-Quad-NOS-/260688703055?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb241ee4f 
  I can't see JAN CHS printed on them, but the date code looks correct.
  I already have a set of Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRP, but I would love to try these, given what you said about classical and violin particularly.
   
  Thanks,
   
  John M


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## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> JC, how long do you think it should take to burn in a pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7G's?  I've got 49 hours on them now and while they have opened up a bit, they sound somewhat harsh and I have to turn the volume up high to get a fuller sound, then it's like it's too loud.  They also sound a little edgy.  Is this par for the course?  Remember, the ones I got are with round micas and I see that everybody else has them with the oval micas.  I am starting to wonder if the oval mica Tung-Sol's are the ones to get, not the round micas?
> 
> Thoughts?







I noticed changes around 25-30 hours and sound really good around 150 hours. There is still subtle changes after that but after 300 hours, I do not notice any more change.


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## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just received a Tung Sol 5U4G I nabbed off eBay for cheap.  I wanted to get a feel for the 5U4G sound, and I must say I'm impressed with this tube.  It sounds a lot like the EML 274B to be honest, very competitive in most areas.  The major difference is vocal focus.  This tube places you more front of stage for vocals where as the 274B is more middle hall.  There is this sense of [vocals] and then [everything else] separation that isn't quite natural to my ears, but anybody who values upfront vocal presentation will appreciate it.  It sounds great for the $15 I paid for it.  Good detail and soundstage, very good tuneful bass, nice detail and separation.  Great tonal balance, quite similar to the EML here too.  This will make a great backup tube in case anything ever happens to the EML.  It puts my old RCA 5R4 to shame.
> 
> For people wishing they could have the EML but can't drop the money I honestly think this makes a fine stand in for a tiny fraction of the price.  I'm not saying it is as good as an EML, especially not without listening and comparing more, but it is a similar sound and all the important performance factors are in the same league.  I could listen to this tube full time no problem.
> 
> edit:  I wanted to throw some more out there to make sure I'm not leading anybody on with my comments here.  This is no budget EML tube, but it is a very nice sounding NOS rectifier nevertheless.  I think a lot of what I'm hearing is mesh plate vs. solid plate too.  This Tung Sol doesn't have the impressive sense of space and ambience when the recording calls for it that the EML can reproduce.  The difference there is much easier to detect.  It also cannot pull out the low level details and textures the way the EML does.  Also, the Tung Sol starts to struggle to keep things sorted when there is a lot going on in the recording.  The 274B keeps everything completely resolved.  This is still the nicest rectifier I have personally listened to aside from the EML 274B.  Very good sounding all around with a nice balanced presentation.


 

 The Tung-Sol 5U4G is a really nice sounding tube.  I have never heard the EML 274B, but I did own the Sophia mesh 274B, and I prefer the Tung-Sol 5U4G.  The Sophia was too bright, and sounded thin.  The Tung-Sol is a much lusher tube.


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## dminches

Are the 5U4Gs always a suitable direct substitute for 5AR4/GZ34s and vice versa?  Will the 5UAGs limit the power at all?


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## Skylab

dminches said:


> Are the 5U4Gs always a suitable direct substitute for 5AR4/GZ34s and vice versa?  Will the 5UAGs limit the power at all?







In Woo amps, yes, they are a direct substitute, and in many other amps as well, but perhaps not in all applications. I don't think there is any way they would limit power, no.


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## Silent One

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nututubes said:


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 By keeping a log. And I use the software Evernote to do it because the program syncs across all of my platforms (Mac; PC; iPhone & iTouch). Logs can not only be fun and rewarding to look at in review. But should you ever become separated from your gear (sold, lost or stolen), you'll at least have a journal to draw from.
   
  Some keep simple run-time logs of system and components. While others (like me) obsessively record micro-details. After a few years though, my journal became too long, too large. As far as details were concerned, it was a great document. but in appearance, it began to look cluttered, devoid of Zen. So last month, I killed it and returned to a simpler format. Ah, but it was very fascinating to look at.
   
  Looking at myself as an instrument (a component in the listening chain) I recorded things like state of mind, that glass of French bubbly at dinner, gear movement during room remodeling, rapid weight gain/loss, many of the things (just to name a few) that can affect what/how you hear during a listening session. And of course, swaps and upgrades goes without saying...
   
  Simply put, documenting my experiences brought me new ways to enjoy my Woo.
   
  Important note: My semi-annual trip to the Audiologist? That's right, I recorded that too. I bring this up because there are some (many) who may only see an ear doctor when a problem arises. For your long-term enjoyment, (preventive) ear maintenance cannot be stressed enough!
   
  Added note: Of the three examples I cited above, the last two may not be as obvious as the first. So, a brief add, lest newcomers think we've completely lost it!
   
  #1. Alcohol lessens keen hearing (obvious).
  #2. Moving (& bending) cables that were at long rest could impact your system's sound in some cases.
  #3. Rapid weight gain/loss can negatively impact your hearing; things may sound different. This is because your ear canal changes size with a big weight gain or loss. This observation is aimed at IEM users in particular. I wear Shure E3C's w/custom ear molds from Sensaphonics and found out this painful lesson first hand. When I complained to my audiologist, I was enlightened.


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## mikemalter

Yes, logs are helpful, I second what the SilentOne says.


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## flaming_june

Those are good tips.


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## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





henerenry said:


> If you are going to roll 5u4g, then you have to go the rounded base u52, in either black or brown bass, they are a step up from the tungsolds, but they go for eml money.


 


  I'm not looking for great sounding tubes per se, since I already have the EML.  I'm just building up my knowledge of what the various major tube types sound like.  For example there is a very large and obvious difference in presentation between a 5U4G and a 5V4G, so I'm just trying different types of tubes for fun.  I want to hear a 5AR4 since that is the standard WA6 tube and I never received one, but most of them seem to be Mullards and I'm not curious enough to spend that kind of money.  I figure $15 is fine if I'm just toying around.  Maybe I'll try a 5Y3, or an American made 5AR4 if I can find one cheap enough.


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## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> @Xcalibur255, may I ask if these look like a true bad boy? http://cgi.ebay.com/Sylvania-Bad-Boy-6SN7GT-Tubes-Matched-Quad-NOS-/260688703055?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb241ee4f
> I can't see JAN CHS printed on them, but the date code looks correct.
> I already have a set of Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRP, but I would love to try these, given what you said about classical and violin particularly.
> 
> ...


 

 The construction looks correct, but labeling and font don't, nor does the year technically (these are 1951, but then again so are mine).  Keep in mind my understanding might not be correct either.  So much of this info gets passed from person to person secondhand we might all be working on incorrect assumptions for all we know.  According to the information users recorded in the reference thread the tubes in that auction would not be Bad Boys, but a tube seller like Brent Jessee would tell you they are.  I found the picture I have of mine for SpudHarris so I'll repost it here if it will be helpful.


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## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Tung-Sol 5U4G is a really nice sounding tube.  I have never heard the EML 274B, but I did own the Sophia mesh 274B, and I prefer the Tung-Sol 5U4G.  The Sophia was too bright, and sounded thin.  The Tung-Sol is a much lusher tube.


 


  The Tung Sol was the first rectifier I had heard whose tone sounded close to that of the EML.  It was an instantly familiar sound when I first played music through it.  It made me a little excited because that makes this a great tube to suggest to folks as a "preview" of whether or not they want to buy an EML tube.  I don't think the tone is an exact match, there are definitely differences, but the similarity is pretty strong overall.  The TS seemed a tiny bit softer at the top end and a little bit stronger in the upper mids compared to the EML.  It also comes across as a bit sweeter overall.  The EML seems to carry a bit more "body" in the lower mids than the TS tube giving a feeling that is mellow rather than sweet.  They have the same overall character though which makes the TS 5U4G a winner in my book.
   
  I'm glad I never tried the Sophia.  I'm confident I wouldn't have been happy with it after all I've heard.  I think you and I have pretty similar tastes overall when it comes to tone.


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## illharmonics

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silent one said:


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  Currently, I am running the stock set of tubes, but would like to tube roll. As for cables, I am just using basic monster cables. I'm sure many will cringe, but I've yet to find go on search for better ones, because I dunno where to start looking. I'll research rolling and upgrading my cables, before forming any sort of rash opinion about my amp. Thank you for the input.


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## mikemalter

Some thoughts by the experienced tube rollers here would be welcomed.
   
  I just purchased some Tung-Sol 6SN7G BGRP with a round mica (vs the more common oval mica).  I have now over 60 hours on them and had to take them out because the sound was so "rough."  There was tons of bass, but the higher frequencies were driving me mad.  From a detail perspective, I could actually hear someone in the audience cough several times during a Madori violin concert.  I've had this CD for years and I never heard it before.  Paired with the TS was a pair of GEC 6080's with 80 hours on them and an Emission Labs 5U4G.
   
  When the GEC's were mated with my fully broken in Shuguang Treasures the sound was very pleasant.  Bass not as deep but good, and higher frequencies were not making my ears bleed, but there was always a little bit of roughness up there but not enough to matter.
   
  In one last of act of despiration before I got on my knees before the eBay seller to see if he would take the TS's back, I replaced the GEC 6080's with a pair of not exactly matched but Tung-Sol manufactured 6AS7's with about 100 hours on them.  This seemed to smooth things out a bit.  It is still a tad bit sharp up top, but I am willing to at least continue to keep burning in the TS and see which direction it goes.
   
  I've also heard that the Tung-Sol round mica are more aggressive in the higher frequencies.
   
  So, what has been the experience in breaking in the TS with 6080 tubes vs 6AS7G's?  Has anyone had any higher frequency issues while breaking in TS tubes?  What about the sonic characteristics of the round micas?  Anybody heard both?
   
  This break-in process has given me pause.  I bought two pairs of the TS tubes because I believed that they were so good, I'd want a backup pair, and I'm a little concerned about what to do if the high-frequency issues don't go away.
   
  Thoughts?


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## nututubes

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xcalibur255 said:


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 @Xcaliber255, Thank you very much for your response


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## Skylab

@Mikemalter - are you saying this pair of TS BGRP with the round mica has a lot more treble detail than other TS BGRP you have tried?


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## jax

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Are the 5U4Gs always a suitable direct substitute for 5AR4/GZ34s and vice versa?  Will the 5UAGs limit the power at all?


 


  I've found in the two applications I've tried them in (Woo WA6SEm and Modwright Transporter), the 5U4G variants seem to yield a warmer tonal balance (emphasizing upper bass and lower mids a bit more) for some reason when compared to the GZ34 variants which occur to me as more linear, and perhaps a bit more thin sounding.  The 5U4G definitely yields a stronger sense of the lower regions for me.  I have also used a Haltron 5V4 in the Woo, which seems to be somewhere in between without the same emphasis the 5U4G yields (I'm using an EML BTW), but at the same time giving a bit more energy/density to the music, again comparing that to GZ34 in the same application (using Blackburn Mullards there or GE Copperplates). YMMV
   
  Mikemalter - I'm not using a WA22, but in the WA6SE with adapters the TSR's I've tried don't yield the kind of results you're having (I've never experienced exaggerated treble with them or any other 6SN7 variant in the Woo). Entirely different circuit though.  I haven't warmed up to 6SN7's in the WA6SE as others seem to have though - I prefer the 6EW7's the circuit was designed for.  The 6SN7's I'm getting the sense of some kind of odd distortions going on at times.  Using Glenn's purpose-built octal adapters.  I haven't tried my Black Treasures though.  Anyway, it shouldn't be too difficult to resell those tubes at a minimal loss should you decide you don't like them. 
   
  I haven't been closely checking this thread, though I do check it fairly regularly - can anyone else share long-term impressions using octal tubes with adapters in the WA6SE?  Last time I checked it was all wine and roses.


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## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> @Mikemalter - are you saying this pair of TS BGRP with the round mica has a lot more treble detail than other TS BGRP you have tried?


 

 Hi, no, thanks for clairifying.  I'm saying that they sound like they are overloaded, to my ears, with treble detail so much so that I think they are not usable in my system.  I am searching for a baseline from someone who might help me understand breakin properties.  Is this normal for a TS BGRP?  Or does the round mica have more treble detail than the oval mica.


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## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Are the 5U4Gs always a suitable direct substitute for 5AR4/GZ34s and vice versa?  Will the 5UAGs limit the power at all?


 

 Yes and no the 5U4 filament draws 3 Amps of current and the 5AR4 draws 2 if the power transformer can handle this their shouldn't be a problem.
  And A 5AR4 has the least voltage drop so if you use a 5U4 you will lower the voltage to your amplifier tubes. This is how different rectifiers change
  the sound. Rectifiers don't have a sound No sound goes to the rectifier all it does is change AC voltage from the power transformer to DC. But it
  changes the sound by changing the B+ voltage and that is changing the operating points of the amplifier tubes which is changing the sound.
  A 5AR4 has 17 volt drop A 5U4G has 58 volt drop A 5U4GB has 50 volt drop  and a 5R4 has 67 volt drop and I measured about 80 volt drop
  with the Sophia 274B mesh plate.
  So if the amp was designed for a 5AR4 all these other tubes will lower the voltage and that won't heart anything. If the amp was designed for a 5U4
  and you put in a 5AR4  then a amp might have over voltage problem.


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## Skylab

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mikemalter said:


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> 
> ...


 
   
  IME, it's not normal to the degree you are describing it.  I do think the TS BGRP are far more detailed than some other 6SN7's, but in a very natural way, not by having the treble accentuated at all - in fact I would describe them as very smooth in the treble.  I've also never heard a difference in the different mica versions.


----------



## Silent One

Skylab~
   
  I just spied your collection through photographs - very pleasing to the eye, it was.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Skylab,
   
  Thanks for answering back.

 I don't know what is going on then.  I've got 66 hours of break-in time on them (more than enough for them to settle down), and I had to pull them from my system.  One of the guys I am talking to over at the audio asylum who is said to be an expert on the 6SN7G's over there, says that the round mica's produce more treble detail than the oval micas.
   
  It could be that we all hear so differently that an oval and round mica may sound the same to you, where to someone else there may be a difference.  While breaking the TS in, I totally got what everyone is so excited about; bass is to die for and midrange is rich and detailed.  But there was just too much treble energy for my taste.  I've pulled them from my amp and will be putting them up for sale on eBay and here, and I just ordered a pair of oval mica's.   I guess I'll find out if the TS are really for me or not.


----------



## Henerenry

I just got some red base rca 6ns7. All I can say is wow, just wow.
   
  Has anyone tried rolling them into their wa6?
   
  If you have a wa6 and the adapters, you owe it to yourself to track a pair down, they sound amazing.
   
  (note that I rolled them into my speaker amp)


----------



## tink97

Good morning everyone,
   
  I just wanted to say that I just put the following tubes into my stock WA2---  Tung Sol 5998,  Amperex bugle boy 6dj8,  and Mullard eZ80.  The sound is amazing, I didn't think that tube changing would make that much difference but I am happy to admit i am wrong! lol
   
  Have a great day everyone and happy holiday
   
  Tink97


----------



## grokit

Stay at Home Because You Are Well Day or Bonifacio Day, are you in the Philippines?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The very last thing I would ever describe my TSRP as is "rough" in the treble.  They are not rolled off at the very top the way a few tubes I've heard can be, but they are the most grain free treble I've heard aside from the Sylvania bad boys.  I'm a K701 listener, so if the treble is not bothering me I can't see it bothering very many people, unless you are listening to Audio Technica headphones.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is a great post Glenn.  It helps explain why rectifiers and certain output tubes seem to have a synergy when others do not.  It makes perfect sense after seeing the technical explanation of what is going on between those tubes.  Thank you for posting this.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> Yes and no the 5U4 filament draws 3 Amps of current and the 5AR4 draws 2 if the power transformer can handle this their shouldn't be a problem.
> And A 5AR4 has the least voltage drop so if you use a 5U4 you will lower the voltage to your amplifier tubes. This is how different rectifiers change
> the sound. Rectifiers don't have a sound No sound goes to the rectifier all it does is change AC voltage from the power transformer to DC. But it
> changes the sound by changing the B+ voltage and that is changing the operating points of the amplifier tubes which is changing the sound.
> ...







In my modwright transporter I wanted to use the EML 5U4G rectifier but other users were seeing these die an early death. The unit was designed for a 5AR4 Dan made an adjustment to limit the amount of voltage being passed to the tube. Is that co nsistent with what you are saying?


----------



## 2359glenn

What kills these rectifier tubes usually is the size of the input capacitor in the power supply of the amp. That is the first filter capacitor after the rectifier tube.
  what is happening is your amp is running off the charge on that capacitor when the ac voltage goes to zero. This happens 120 times a second in the US
  and 100 times a second ware the electric is 50Hz. The larger the capacitor the greater the surge through the rectifier to recharge the capacitor.
  A 5AR4 can handle a larger input capacitor than a 5U4 and mesh plate versions of the 5U4 cannot handle as much current as a regular 5U4.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





dminches said:


> In my modwright transporter I wanted to use the EML 5U4G rectifier but other users were seeing these die an early death. The unit was designed for a 5AR4 Dan made an adjustment to limit the amount of voltage being passed to the tube. Is that co nsistent with what you are saying?


 
   
  What you describe is limited exclusively to the the EML 5U4G tube (early version) because that specific tube is less tolerant of voltage fluctuations than other tubes in the 5U4G family (a detail that I'm not entirely sure is the case with the newly redesigned EML in shorter housing - check with George at TubesUSA to find out).  Dan had to replace one of the caps that were wired in line with the rectifier to limit the voltage swing due to current fluctuations from AC.  It wants to see a specific first-cap value, and that was the problem in his circuit.  At least that is my limited understanding of that particular instance.  I'm pretty certain he now routinely includes that cap value in current MWTP builds.  If memory serves, there was a 450V 100uf cap that was the culprit - it needed to be replaced by a 450V 22uf cap.  Current spec for that tube calls for 33uf as the first cap value.  Don't quote me on all of that - I know enough about this stuff to be dangerous - but pretty sure the details are fairly accurate.  Perhaps Glenn can shed more light on that.  I can tell you for certain that the problem in the MWTP was strictly limited to the EML variant.  I have not heard of any other premature failures in that circuit of other 5U4G tubes besides the early EML's.  I did check with Jack Woo specifically describing this problem that Dan was confronted with and Jack assured me that his circuit (in the WA6SEm that I use) was EML friendly.


----------



## dminches

Jax,
   
  I think you have it correct, at least as much as I know from what Dan shared with me.  I will have to ask him if this affects the use of any other rectifier.
   
  Anyway, back to the Woo discussion...


----------



## jax

Speaking of EML and the 5u4G family - has anyone seen this?  Looks like you'd need a new choke, but wonder what the possible benefits might be in a Woo application. Seems like it's just a 274A variant, no?  Both in the MWTP and the Woo, nothing seems to come close to the EML mesh for my tastes, so I'm intrigued.  My friend has a High Wycombe GZ37 in his MWTP which I have to say sounds pretty damn good, but haven't done a direct comparison to the EML.  Anyone try the HW in their Woo?  I see a shootout in my future.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 AS for the 100uf cap even a regular 5U4 can only stand a input cap of 40uf max. Other direct heated rectifiers like the 5R4 and 274B recommend 4uf.


----------



## mikemalter

Question about tube usage.
   
  I recently purchased a pair of GEC 6AS7G's, and on the top of one of the tubes, there is something that to me says this tube was used a lot.  Inside of the green highlight, there is what looks like the leaking away of the silver material at the top of the tube.  The marks align with the heat elements in the tube, and I am wondering if this indicates tube wear?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Hard to say how much it was used, but if it was sold to you as NOS, it appears that it was not.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Did the seller say they were NOS or that they _tested_ like NOS?  I've had tubes which test considerably above "nominal new" so a tube can be used for some time and still technically test at the new mark for that tube.  The wording can be deceptive, but you were only mislead by the seller if he asserted these tubes were never used before.  Even if he did I wouldn't feel cheated if I were in your shoes so long as the tubes actually do test strong.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hard to say how much it was used, but if it was sold to you as NOS, it appears that it was not.


 

 Sold as NOS.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Did the seller say they were NOS or that they _tested_ like NOS?  I've had tubes which test considerably above "nominal new" so a tube can be used for some time and still technically test at the new mark for that tube.  The wording can be deceptive, but you were only mislead by the seller if he asserted these tubes were never used before.  Even if he did I wouldn't feel cheated if I were in your shoes so long as the tubes actually do test strong.


 

 No, NOS.
   
  Also the tubes in the ad were clear topped, and in what I got one was clear topped, and the other was silver topped.  I wrote to the guy and he asked me to send him photos, which I did today.  The tubes were packed really nicely, the boxes were pristine and the tubes were wrapped in this official looking muslin cotten padded wrapping. 
   
  Basically, I needed to know what the markes in the silver top were as my instinct says they are indicative of being well used.  We'll see what the seller does.
   
  Thanks, guys.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, someone already jumped on it!  LOL.  Which of you was it...confess now


 


 I had to. Now I just need the WA22 to place them in!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did you get a pair of GEC 6AS7G's from the guy in Taiwan?


----------



## nututubes

jc, Next time your turn...if there is a next time lol. Anyway, the seller said he shipped on Friday 11/25. Now I wait for Jack's email!


----------



## hodgjy

It's hard to say from that picture.  But, if it means anything, I've received NOS tubes that have the appearance of wear marks in the getter.  In my case, they were most likely how the getter was flashed and not from previous use.  In your case, it could be use, or it could just be how the getter was flashed.  Most of my getters have lines and streaks in them that seem to correspond with the plate construction, and this was right out the NOS box.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Question about tube usage.
> 
> I recently purchased a pair of GEC 6AS7G's, and on the top of one of the tubes, there is something that to me says this tube was used a lot.  Inside of the green highlight, there is what looks like the leaking away of the silver material at the top of the tube.  The marks align with the heat elements in the tube, and I am wondering if this indicates tube wear?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think so his ebay name is ayumitubes.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Same here, but mine were described as used and cost considerably less than his 'NOS' tubes.
   
  Mike- how do the 6AS7Gs sound?


----------



## Skylab

The GEC 6AS7G has a bottom getter. There shouldn't be any getter flashing on the top.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They sounded very good out of the box.  Midrange is rich, bass is tight and present and treble is there without being harsh.  Lots of detail.  I have 16 hours on them and their sonic profile has not changed from the instant I put them in which is strange because usually unused tubes, to me at least, usually sound congested and take a few hours before they open up, these guys were open right out of the gate.
  
   
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, that is him.  Did you get the Matched Pair?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The GEC 6AS7G has a bottom getter. There shouldn't be any getter flashing on the top.


 

 Strange.  There is a bottom getter and a top getter on one tube and it has the GEC sticker on it along with labeling on the glass that is GEC.  The other tube has a clear top and looks like the picture.
   
  I can't understand how he can show a photo in his sale of one set of tubes, and sell a completely different pair.  I emailed him today and it should be day in Taiwan now, so maybe I'll hear from him soon.


----------



## hodgjy

That explains that, then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I was confused by the picture and thought it was the flashing. 
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The GEC 6AS7G has a bottom getter. There shouldn't be any getter flashing on the top.


----------



## musicman59

Does anybody has any experience with the Create Audio 6SN7 tubes? 
  How do they compare to NOS tubes in sound?


----------



## che15

Hello Woo owners , I have a like new sophia  and adapters for 6sn7 for sale . Please pm me if interested.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Does anybody has any experience with the Create Audio 6SN7 tubes?
> How do they compare to NOS tubes in sound?


 


  6moons had an article featuring them and the Fullmusic tubes, but the writer's focus didn't really seem to be on how they actually sounded specifically.  I know the Create tubes are manufactured for that company by Shuguang, but they are not of the same design/construction as the generic Shuguang tubes they resemble.  I've wanted to try out a Fullmusic tube personally, but they won't physically fit in my amp with the adapters and the size of the EML 274B.  Not being able to listen with the EML would make it a moot point for me.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well Mike, that is what is advertised (matched), and at that price they should be. I have not yet received them. They were shipped according to Alex and I do have a tracking number but I'm not sure how to trace it. When they do arrive, I will photograph them and post in this thread for all to examine. I have no WA22 yet to test with.
   
  I'm sure jc 9394 will jump in and volunteer to test them for me lol.
   
  Mike, should I be concerned about the accuracy of the item description? You said that you do like the audio quality though....right?


----------



## Skylab

I just looked at some of my GEC 6AS7G's that are used.  The silvering on the top is definitely from use.  The ones that I have that are used do have some evidence of this.  There is no getter at the top of any of mine, only the very unique-shaped bottom getter.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I'm sure jc 9394 will jump in and volunteer to test them for me lol.
> 
> Mike, should I be concerned about the accuracy of the item description? You said that you do like the audio quality though....right?


 

 I will be more than happy to burn them in for you.
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I just looked at some of my GEC 6AS7G's that are used.  The silvering on the top is definitely from use.  The ones that I have that are used do have some evidence of this.  There is no getter at the top of any of mine, only the very unique-shaped bottom getter.


 


  The pair I got with around 250-300 hours on it have not silver deposit on the top.


----------



## SpudHarris

I'm striking out reference scoring a set of Bad Boy Sylvania's. Don't suppose anyone knows where I can get a true set. I've looked on the bay but most don't ring true based upon what I've gleened. I think I know what to look for but can't find them anywhere


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  The pair I got NOS and have used a few hundred hours also do not.  But the used pair I got does.


  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm striking out reference scoring a set of Bad Boy Sylvania's. Don't suppose anyone knows where I can get a true set. I've looked on the bay but most don't ring true based upon what I've gleened. I think I know what to look for but can't find them anywhere


 


  PM me, SH.


----------



## mikemalter

> > Well Mike, that is what is advertised (matched), and at that price they should be. I have not yet received them. They were shipped according to Alex and I do have a tracking number but I'm not sure how to trace it. When they do arrive, I will photograph them and post in this thread for all to examine. I have no WA22 yet to test with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I just got an email back from Alex (his name) this morning and he sent me a picture of a different tube with a clear top and is willing to replace.  I sent him back an email saying I wanted a matched pair, and suggested that he bill me for another pair via PayPal and send them right away, and I'll send the other tubes back and he can refund my original charge.  We'll see what he says.  I get the impression he wants to make all transactions good ones.  I'll post results.
   
  The audio quality of the GEC 6AS7G's are really good to my ears.  Power tubes to me are like the color saturation setting on a TV.  They seem to enhance what the color balance actually is (drivers).  So they are bringing out the best of the Shuguang Treasures (I am so looking forward to getting my oval mica TS's in) without forcing the issue or making the presentation of the drivers too forward.  This is my own anology, and might not be the right way to look at the relationship between power and rectifier tubes.
   
  Anyway, when you get the tubes, if they look physically similiar, I would think that there is no problem.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I just looked at some of my GEC 6AS7G's that are used.  The silvering on the top is definitely from use.  The ones that I have that are used do have some evidence of this.  There is no getter at the top of any of mine, only the very unique-shaped bottom getter.


 

 Sky,
   
  Thank you very much for checking around for me.  I'm working out the issue with the vendor and he seems to make the situation good.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm striking out reference scoring a set of Bad Boy Sylvania's. Don't suppose anyone knows where I can get a true set. I've looked on the bay but most don't ring true based upon what I've gleened. I think I know what to look for but can't find them anywhere


 

 Keep looking, you'll find them!


----------



## okw3188

I am planning to get the WooAudio 6 amp to drive my Beyer DT990(600 ohm), as my Stepdance clearly shows its limitation in doing so.
   
  My front end is an iPod classic 120Gb. I would like to seek advice if the direct output from iPod via LOD to RCA cable is sufficient to drive the WooAudio.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> I am planning to get the WooAudio 6 amp to drive my Beyer DT990(600 ohm), as my Stepdance clearly shows its limitation in doing so.
> 
> My front end is an iPod classic 120Gb. I would like to seek advice if the direct output from iPod via LOD to RCA cable is sufficient to drive the WooAudio.


 

 This doesn't answer your question, yet is partly germain.  Have you thought about getting a Wadia i170 to get a digital signal that you'd feed to an offboard DAC and then on to the WA6?  You could rip your music with Apple Lossless and get bit perfect output via the Wadia and then your WA6 would really shine.  Just a thought, sorry for the left turn.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm striking out reference scoring a set of Bad Boy Sylvania's. Don't suppose anyone knows where I can get a true set. I've looked on the bay but most don't ring true based upon what I've gleened. I think I know what to look for but can't find them anywhere


 


  You might have better luck at Audiogon.  Sellers tend to be more reputable there too, though in fairness I've yet to be burned by anybody on eBay.  Because these tubes have been so hunted over the years they are probably among the most rare now, so it may take a bit of time before the real deal shows up somewhere.
   
  Hang in there SpudHarris.  They are worth it.  I rolled mine out prematurely in the past and have found they still are breaking in when I put them back in the amp last week.  They sound even better than before, on the same playing field as the round plate tung sols.  I was always impressed with them, they have a sound that is unique and endearing, but just recently the detail and control have really come in as well and they are just a joy to listen to.  At the end of the day I would still give the nod to the TSRPs, but these are easily my second favorite tube and well ahead of the rest I have heard.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks guys. I'm willing to wait for the real deal and although most give the TS-BGRP the edge I think the bad boy flavour is my cup of tea if my ''almost bad boy'' 1951 Sylvanias are anything to go by.
   
  I will keep searching.
   
  Cheers
  Nigel


----------



## mikemalter

Just wanted everyone to know that the meet for northern california has firmed up and the link is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/525693/bay-area-meet-california-february-19th-2011


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Of course you are asking him to go from the price of an interconnect to spending hundreds of dollars if not more, but I agree that it would sound better


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, you're right, and I thought of that when I replied.  It was more of a thought exersize kind of a thing.  Since I had not explicitly driven my Woo with my iPod, I could not answer that exactly.  I was thinking that maybe he was not aware of what was out there and that could factor into his woo buying decision.  Point taken to heart, it's always good to stay on the same level with the original question.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> I am planning to get the WooAudio 6 amp to drive my Beyer DT990(600 ohm), as my Stepdance clearly shows its limitation in doing so.
> 
> My front end is an iPod classic 120Gb. I would like to seek advice if the direct output from iPod via LOD to RCA cable is sufficient to drive the WooAudio.


 

 I went back and did a test with my Woo and I went directly from my iPod classic to my WA22.  So going directly from an iPod with a cable will drive a WA22, and I am going to assume that it will drive a WA6.  I turned the volume all the way up on the iPod and to the 11 o'clock position on my Woo to get normal listening volume.  So it looks like a cable would do what you want.


----------



## okw3188

Hi Mike, I'm a little confuse about your findings. Are you using the ipod headphone jack as the input to WA22?
   
  I was planning to use a LOD to RCA cable, so it should be tapping the fix line output from the ipod, right?
   
  And thanks for the suggestion of the Wadia dock, I'm aware of it, but my plan is not to spend too much for this case.


----------



## Skylab

It's definitely better to use an LOD and use the line out from an iPod when going into a headphone amp, yes. 

I do use the Wadia i170 and a nice DAC with my WA6, though, and it's awesome


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Hi Mike, I'm a little confuse about your findings. Are you using the ipod headphone jack as the input to WA22?
> 
> I was planning to use a LOD to RCA cable, so it should be tapping the fix line output from the ipod, right?
> 
> And thanks for the suggestion of the Wadia dock, I'm aware of it, but my plan is not to spend too much for this case.


 

 Yes, I used the headphone jack.  I am not sure what extra you get when you use an LOD connection vs. the headphone jack.  Is one better than the other?  I've never tried an LOD to RCA connection before.  What have you heard?


----------



## Skylab

Using an LOD will bypass the iPods headphone amp, which should mean less noise.


----------



## okw3188

Please see below for the LOD to RCA cable that I'll referring to :
   
http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/iPod-iPhone-Line-Out-Dock-LOD-RCA-Silver-Cable-/250694273253?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3a5e8b08e5#ht_2924wt_1271
   
  But I'm not sure if it will work on amp.


----------



## Skylab

Should work great.


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The Wadia 170i is such a unique piece, the sound quality will only be limited by your DAC.
   
  Without an external DAC you will not get any of its benefits, though you could temporarily use the analog outputs and not have to buy a new dock when you upgrade.
   
  I rip all my CD's to Apple Lossless and play via them iPhone or iPod touch, both with flash drive memory (no moving parts), and the sound absolutely trounces any optically driven CD transport that I have tried, and I had a couple that were_ many_ times more expensive than the Wadia.
   
  I owned a WA6 and you will absolutely be able to discern these differences with your set up, yes you can get good sound directly from your iPod but add the Wadia and a quality DAC and it will take you to an entirely different level.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I use an ALO LOD from my iPod Classic 160 GB; the RCA end of it plugs into an ALO RX portable amp.  I then plug my JH13s into the amp, and this is my portable listening setup. Doctor's orders are lots of walking, regardless of the weather, and this setup makes it very pleasant.  
   
  ALO provides some heavy duty elastic straps to lash the amp and the iPod together in my pocket.  The best portable setup I've heard; I get 4-5 miles in daily, even in the worst winter weather, which we're in the middle of up here right now.


----------



## Maxvla

Joining the fold. Just ordered a WA6 with Sophia 274b for use with IEMs mostly. Hope it's good. Going from balanced to single ended so I have my worries, but I also like how flexible it is to not be balanced.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Joining the fold. Just ordered a WA6 with Sophia 274b for use with IEMs mostly. Hope it's good. Going from balanced to single ended so I have my worries, but I also like how flexible it is to not be balanced.


 

 My maxed WA6 with PDPS and Sophia Princess is freaking awesome with all of my IEM.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Using an LOD will bypass the iPods headphone amp, which should mean less noise.


 

 Interesting because I did hear a lot of hash when listening earlier.  So that makes sense.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Please see below for the LOD to RCA cable that I'll referring to :
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/iPod-iPhone-Line-Out-Dock-LOD-RCA-Silver-Cable-/250694273253?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3a5e8b08e5#ht_2924wt_1271
> 
> But I'm not sure if it will work on amp.


 

 Sweet looking cable.  I'm sure it will work really well.  And you're feeding a Woo - what could be better than that!


----------



## midoo1990

wow,i havent been here for a loooooooong time.500-600 new posts? i am glad the thread is still going strong.
   
  i just have one question.my wa6 hums with my jh13.i am very sensitive regarding hiss from any gear.
  anyone with jh13 notices this?i am a low volume guy and i dont get past 8-9 oclock...


----------



## Maxvla

midoo1990 said:


> wow,i havent been here for a loooooooong time.500-600 new posts? i am glad the thread is still going strong.
> 
> i just have one question.my wa6 hums with my jh13.i am very sensitive regarding hiss from any gear.
> anyone with jh13 notices this?i am a low volume guy and i dont get past 8-9 oclock...




Wow.. I hope this an isolated incident. I ordered a WA6 just a couple days ago for use with IEMs because I was told it was silent and now I see this.. Starting to wonder if I should cancel.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> wow,i havent been here for a loooooooong time.500-600 new posts? i am glad the thread is still going strong.
> 
> i just have one question.my wa6 hums with my jh13.i am very sensitive regarding hiss from any gear.
> anyone with jh13 notices this?i am a low volume guy and i dont get past 8-9 oclock...


 


  Did you tried different tubes?  When I had my WA6 it is dead quiet and same as my WA22 now.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My WA22 is dead quiet too.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I used my JH13's with my WA6 to great effect. They were pretty much silent with any tube combination but to be truthful my JH13's were for portable use and although superb you just don't get the same sound stage as the likes of T1's or HD600's.
   
  I have also used my UM W6 (W3 + 3 Extra Driver Customs) IEM's with it and they sound stunning but again I feel that IEM's are restricted for sound stage and the WA6 with the right tubes and phones has a massive sound stage...


----------



## Maxvla

I feel completely opposite. IEMs are where you find the best headstage, meaning it is in your head, but it sounds natural like you are really hearing it for yourself. Both of my IEMs $15 and $250 decimate all (low and high end) full size cans for staging.

Anyone else experience hum/buzz with their WA6 + 274b using IEMs?


----------



## grokit

Maxvla, I do hope that you find what you are looking for


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I feel completely opposite. IEMs are where you find the best headstage, meaning it is in your head, but it sounds natural like you are really hearing it for yourself. Both of my IEMs $15 and $250 decimate all (low and high end) full size cans for staging.
> 
> Anyone else experience hum/buzz with their WA6 + 274b using IEMs?


 
   
  My WA6 with Sophia 274B or EML 274B is dead quiet using RE0 and IE8.


----------



## jc9394

maxvla said:


> AI feel completely opposite. IEMs are where you find the best headstage, meaning it is in your head, but it sounds natural like you are really hearing it for yourself. Both of my IEMs $15 and $250 decimate all (low and high end) full size cans for staging.
> 
> Anyone else experience hum/buzz with their WA6 + 274b using IEMs?







For IEM use, I highly recommend the EML 274B over EML 5U4G or Sophia 274B. It is wider soundstage and slightly more romantic female vocal.


----------



## Maxvla

grokit said:


> Maxvla, I do hope that you find what you are looking for




I'm trying!


----------



## Maxvla

jc9394 said:


> For IEM use, I highly recommend the EML 274B over EML 5U4G or Sophia 274B. It is wider soundstage and slightly more romantic female vocal.




The only option I saw was the Sophia when ordering the WA6. How do you get the others and are they the same price?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Just ask Jack about ordering one.  Unfortunately they are quite a bit more.  Given the strength of the euro against the dollar right now I suspect current prices are in the 250-275 range for an EML tube.  If you want to hear the best the amp can offer it is worth it though, it really takes things up another level.  I'll have to second jc on the 274B option too.  Most people get the 5U4G in the EML, but for IEMs I think the 274B can leverage its strengths very well there.


----------



## mikemalter

What is an IEM?


----------



## grokit

Lol. Inner Ear Module Monitor, basically an earbud that extends further into the ear canal.


----------



## mikemalter

Oh, ok, like the kind you have to go to a doctor for and get an ear mold cast and they make the inner thing to fit your ear canal exactly?


----------



## grokit

Not necessarily, that's a custom IEM but you need to see an audiologist first for those. Universal IEMs are much more popular, and you can buy them "off the shelf" so they are comparatively much less expensive.


----------



## grokit

>


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Lol. Inner Ear Module, basically an earbud that extends further into the ear canal.


 

 Inner Ear _*Module*_??? That's different. LOL


----------



## grokit

>


----------



## jax

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> wow,i havent been here for a loooooooong time.500-600 new posts? i am glad the thread is still going strong.
> 
> i just have one question.my wa6 hums with my jh13.i am very sensitive regarding hiss from any gear.
> anyone with jh13 notices this?i am a low volume guy and i dont get past 8-9 oclock...


 

 I can't comment on the specific gear (don't have the standard WA6 nor a pair of jh13's. But can comment generally; you used two different terms here:
   
  Hum problems are pretty commonly due to a grounding issue, like some kind of ground loop.  One possible solution might be to get a cheater plug which allows you to plug your grounded plug into it and then drops the ground entirely by only having the two spades that plug into the wall.  The grounding problem could also be coming through the source you have plugged into the amp. 
   
  "Hiss", on the other hand, is certainly not hum, and is usually just tube rush which exists to varying degrees in all tubes and can be addressed to varying degrees in the circuit treatment.  That said, I hear no tube rush/hiss with my WA6SE with a wide variety of headphones, but DO get some hiss when plugging in my UE-10's as I recall (tried that a long time ago and otherwise avoid it).


----------



## jax

That's the first time I've heard that version of IEM.  I always thought it stood for "In-Ear-Monitor".


----------



## grokit

That could be it too lol, post edited


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My maxed WA6 with Alps attenuator, Sophia Princess 274B rectifier and RCA 6DE7 is totally silent with all my custom IEM, and has no hiss or hum.  My Eddie Current ZDT with a variety of 5751 tubes is also great with IEM and totally silent with them.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My maxed WA6 with Alps attenuator, Sophia Princess 274B rectifier and RCA 6DE7 is totally silent with all my custom IEM, and has no hiss or hum.  My Eddie Current ZDT with a variety of 5751 tubes is also great with IEM and totally silent with them.


 

 What brand of IEM to you use?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They're all in my public profile, including but not limited to Westone ES5 and ES3X, JH13Pro, UE11Pro, etc...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I now understand your name.


----------



## mikemalter

I have an update to this issue, and would like to know what the more experienced tube rollers think.
   
  The vendor has offered to cut the price of the tubes sent by 1/3rd.  My concern is over the life remaining in the tube with the wear patterns on the silver getter.  It also looks like the vendor put test results of the tubes on the box, and I am not sure what those numbers mean.
   

 Tube with silver top
 ....58/5.2
 ....48/5.4
 Tube with the clear top
 ....56/5.5
 ....61/5.4
   
  Thoughts about what those numbers might mean?  Should I consider taking the tubes at 1/3rd off, the price is fair if the tubes are good, they don't have to be perfect.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Question about tube usage.
> 
> I recently purchased a pair of GEC 6AS7G's, and on the top of one of the tubes, there is something that to me says this tube was used a lot.  Inside of the green highlight, there is what looks like the leaking away of the silver material at the top of the tube.  The marks align with the heat elements in the tube, and I am wondering if this indicates tube wear?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks for all the responses gents,i appreciate it
  i checked my 6FD7 tubes and cleaned all the pins and put them in again and now it returned to be completely utterly silent.no hiss or any sort of things,very black with my jh13.
   
  Maxvia,wa6 is great with my jh13 and sophia.i especially like the huge soundstage of the lovely sophia and the amount of air in the music.
   
  i also agree with Spudd about headphone soundstage in comparison to jh13.i miss my hd650 big full sound,height of soundstage,depth and echo.something the jh13 will never be capable of nor i expect it to mimac either.i am looking for another headphone but nothing seem to fit me.maybe lcd2,i am still thinking...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> Thanks for all the responses gents,i appreciate it
> i checked my 6FD7 tubes and cleaned all the pins and put them in again and now it returned to be completely utterly silent.no hiss or any sort of things,very black with my jh13.
> 
> Maxvia,wa6 is great with my jh13 and sophia.i especially like the huge soundstage of the lovely sophia and the amount of air in the music.
> ...


 

 What did you use to clean your pins?


----------



## midoo1990

just a scraper and a fine piece of cloth.i havent used my wa6 for close to two months and it seem that some dust and rust where on the pins,so i just cleaned it off.
  and i am still hearing very faint hum or hiss(whatever).not distracting like before but i wish it isnt there.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have an update to this issue, and would like to know what the more experienced tube rollers think.
> 
> The vendor has offered to cut the price of the tubes sent by 1/3rd.  My concern is over the life remaining in the tube with the wear patterns on the silver getter.  It also looks like the vendor put test results of the tubes on the box, and I am not sure what those numbers mean.
> 
> ...


 

 Mike - to know what those numbers mean, you have to know what tester they were made with, what the nominal/new values are, and what the range of "new" to "not good" is, in order to make any sense of them.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've asked the vendor for clairification, I'll share those when I get them.  Thanks.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> just a scraper and a fine piece of cloth.i havent used my wa6 for close to two months and it seem that some dust and rust where on the pins,so i just cleaned it off.
> and i am still hearing very faint hum or hiss(whatever).not distracting like before but i wish it isnt there.


 

 Over time, most tube pins will begin to oxidize. When a problem arises I use 96-99% pure isopropyl alcohol to clean the tube pins and then apply the DeoxIT Gold.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/365765/which-craig-deoxit-for-cleaning-tube-pins


----------



## Maxvla

midoo1990 said:


> Thanks for all the responses gents,i appreciate it
> i checked my 6FD7 tubes and cleaned all the pins and put them in again and now it returned to be completely utterly silent.no hiss or any sort of things,very black with my jh13.
> 
> Maxvia,wa6 is great with my jh13 and sophia.i especially like the huge soundstage of the lovely sophia and the amount of air in the music.
> ...




Glad to know it was just some oxidation. Was getting worried.


----------



## mikemalter

More tubescapades!  The GEC 6AS7G's I ordered had to be returned.  The vendor has a replacement pair and hopefully those will be a better fit.  The last pair were supposed to be a matched pair and the photo of the tubes in the eBay sale were different than the ones I was sent.  I really wish I could have kept that pair, but the wear marks in the silver getter at the top of the tube indicated to me this one tube was very used.  But, oh the sound was so smooth.  I should have my new pair in about a week or so and will post impressions then.


----------



## SpudHarris

Any of you guys got these? and if so are they worthy of a $400 price tag?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> More tubescapades!  The GEC 6AS7G's I ordered had to be returned.  The vendor has a replacement pair and hopefully those will be a better fit.  The last pair were supposed to be a matched pair and the photo of the tubes in the eBay sale were different than the ones I was sent.  I really wish I could have kept that pair, but the wear marks in the silver getter at the top of the tube indicated to me this one tube was very used.  But, oh the sound was so smooth.  I should have my new pair in about a week or so and will post impressions then.


 

  
  Same here!  One tube was DOA and Alex had me send both tubes back to him for a replacement (if he has any) or a full refund.  Let's hope for a replacement!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The tube that was DOA had very strange silvering.  It wasn't just on the top and bottom, but there was also a silver streak in the middle of the tube.  The good tube had silvering on half the top and some on the bottom.  I also noticed a lot of cloudiness in the silvering in the DOA tube, and a very minute amount in the good tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> More tubescapades!  The GEC 6AS7G's I ordered had to be returned.  The vendor has a replacement pair and hopefully those will be a better fit.  The last pair were supposed to be a matched pair and the photo of the tubes in the eBay sale were different than the ones I was sent.  I really wish I could have kept that pair, but the wear marks in the silver getter at the top of the tube indicated to me this one tube was very used.  But, oh the sound was so smooth.  I should have my new pair in about a week or so and will post impressions then.


 

 If you liked the sound couldn't they have been keepers? Maybe at a negotiated after-the-fact discount? I ordered some NOS 5V4G tubes and when I mentioned to the seller that one of the tubes was used (I also sent him a photo of the silver deposits on its cleartop) he refunded me 45% of the original cost. That tube is still going strong (and tests strong) after a year of use (about 1500 hours so far). Maybe I was just lucky.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Any of you guys got these? and if so are they worthy of a $400 price tag?


 


  Those are metal-base Sylvania 6SN7W's, and they are excellent.  They are bold, muscular, and big sounding.  Not for the detail freak, but otherwise outstanding.  I do have a pair, which I use sparingly, since those are harder to get in good condition than the TS BGRP are.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton, I thought about it.  I REALLY loved how those tubes sounded.  And he was willing to give me a discount.  My problem was that the getter on the top of one of the tubes had a lot of wear on it (the silver was gone in a area that directly aligned with the heading elements) and my concern was that the tube could go.  Given that the tubes in the photos of the auction were different, I was so undecided that any piece of information or opinion either way would have led me in that direction.  If you had posted one day earlier, I would have kept the discount and the tubes.  Where were you when I needed you??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll give the guy one more try.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Those are metal-base Sylvania 6SN7W's, and they are excellent.  They are bold, muscular, and big sounding.  Not for the detail freak, but otherwise outstanding.  I do have a pair, which I use sparingly, since those are harder to get in good condition than the TS BGRP are.


 
   
  Thanks Rob,
   
  I'll probably get a pair ordered this evening as I can't score a true pair of Bad Boys


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Interesting... there's been something of an explosion of 6SN7 classified listings at the 'Gon in the past few days. A lot of reasonably priced offerings, but also some very questionable stuff... including a listing labeled as "Sylvania Bad Boys" last night that had been revised by this morning.
   
  I'm just a spectator at this point, not having yet splurged on the WA22, but it's still a fascinating coincidence with the discussion happening here over the past week or so.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Interesting... there's been something of an explosion of 6SN7 classified listings at the 'Gon in the past few days. A lot of reasonably priced offerings, but also some very questionable stuff... including a listing labeled as "Sylvania Bad Boys" last night that had been revised by this morning.
> 
> I'm just a spectator at this point, not having yet splurged on the WA22, but it's still a fascinating coincidence with the discussion happening here over the past week or so.


 

 It is remarkable to me how responsive the WA22 is to different tubes.  The flip side of that is the garbage that is out there being "over-advertised."  I am going to have to be a little harder nosed, and ask more questions of vendors going forward.  I think due to the my most recent tube buying experiences, the days of clicking on the buy now button without asking questions are over for me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The 6SN7W is like an even better Bad Boy.  So no need for Bad Boys if you buy the metal-base 6SN7W.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Very true, man.  I've had no bad experiences with buying tubes from eBay until this GEC incident.  But on the other hand, we really didn't have time to ask questions before we bought the tubes.  We knew they were going to be scooped up within minutes so we acted without much thought.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Alex has stopped answering my emails.  I'm giving him one more day to respond and then I am going to my credit card company.


----------



## nututubes

Today my shipment from Woo Audio arrived. Here are some shots of the items unpacked which includes tubes from Jack as well as some NOS tubes that I've been collecting since the day I ordered the WA22 and HD800s from Woo Audio. I won't have a chance to try it for a couple of days though. I don't know where to start (tube wise), but I think it will be fun!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Today my shipment from Woo Audio arrived. Here are some shots of the items unpacked which includes tubes from Jack as well as some NOS tubes that I've been collecting since the day I ordered the WA22 and HD800s from Woo Audio. I won't have a chance to try it for a couple of days though. I don't know where to start (tube wise), but I think it will be fun!


 

 Wow, great stuff!  You have the best.  I'd start with plain old stock tubes first and make sure your amp is working well, which I am sure it is.  Let it go for a day just to get a baseline and then I'd put in the EML and the treasures and the GEC's.  If you have 6080's put them in first, otherwise the 6AS7G's and let is stew for a hundred hours.  Then move in the Tung Sol.
   
  I'd be interested in hearing what the sonic profile is every 8 to 10 hours.  I have read where Jack says not to leave the amp going for more than 8 hours at a time.
   
  I am really happy for you that you can start out with the best that is out there.  Really cool stuff!


----------



## nututubes

I am happy that we have a forum like this where the members share opinions, guidance and experiences. The search tool here is magnificent to newbies like me. Now if I can only stop the wallet from bleeding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I just know Spud Harris is going to find those bad boys before I can, but he better grab those metal base 6SN7Ws before someone else does.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I am happy that we have a forum like this where the members share opinions, guidance and experiences. The search tool here is magnificent to newbies like me. Now if I can only stop the wallet from bleeding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, this thread is the best I have ever participated in and I agree with you about the forum.


----------



## nututubes

Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Well, I do have some GEC 6080s and 6AS7Gs un-tested by me. As well as some TS 6SA7GT BGRP, TS 6F8G and other NOS stock, all un-tested. I wonder if I should spend a day testing all of the tubes for function, then as you suggested begin rolling them in and out for audition purposes.


----------



## lukaskite

Hi everyone!
   

  Happy wa2 user finally came out of his shell. At first when i received it 5 months ago i was kind of disappointed but after a lot of burn in and upgrades(pc tweaks/transport/dac/

  aftermarket power cords/tubes) i can finally say it's a outstanding piece of gear. Just rest of your setup need to be up for the task and that cost a lot of money (actually spend on all upgrades 3000 usd, planned 1500...).

   

  Ps:

  If some are interested i can do a review of EZ80 rectifers as i have couple of pairs (siemens/telefunkens/mullards england and france/ei yugoslavia/tungsram/philips holland/

  brimar uk) and it's hard to find any info in the net about them.

   

  Ps2:

  Did i mentioned that this is very, very evil place


----------



## jc9394

Nututubes, try every tubes you have for couple hours each to make sure they are working. Once confirmed the are all working, go for GEC6080, Treasures, and EML 5U4G. Don't waste time with stock tubes unless you are looking for base line. I skipped the stock tubes except getting the base line for couple hours. Life is short, don't listen to crappy stock tubes.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Wow nututubes!  If I had all of those toys sitting on my desk I wouldn't be able to do anything but play with them.  That is a great setup.  Enjoy it!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...


 

 If it were me, I'd use the stock tubes for a week to make sure the amp was in order, and then start from the bottom up.  From my experience you have to give at least some breakin time for tubes.  Maybe 20 to 30 hours before they open up and their sonic signature solidifies.  You have a great opportunity to experience how all of those tubes will influence how your amp sounds.  I'd love to hear your experiences with them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would say this depends upon what you are after in a tube personally.  I like the bad boy because it is easy on the ears without sacrificing low level detail or clarity, a very rare thing.  The W's are indeed a bigger and bolder sound, but if what a person is seeking is the laid back finesse of the bad boy that might not actually be an entirely good thing.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Today my shipment from Woo Audio arrived. Here are some shots of the items unpacked which includes tubes from Jack as well as some NOS tubes that I've been collecting since the day I ordered the WA22 and HD800s from Woo Audio. I won't have a chance to try it for a couple of days though. I don't know where to start (tube wise), but I think it will be fun!


 

 Welcome nututubes. You have acquired quite the collection of gear. [drooling!]  I didn't realize Jack was selling HD800's as they are not shown on his site. Had I known I would of purchased mine from him and get a free stand... Damn I should of asked first.


----------



## nututubes

Thanks jc9394 and mikemalter for your startup testing recommendations. I now plan to install the stock tubes and run for let's say one hour to verify the function of the amp and headphones with the stock Senn cable. Next test will be short, with my APuresound HD800 cable and stock tubes. I won't wast time on running with stock tubes with stock Senn cable much more than that. Next I will test the upgrade tubes for function. If all goes well I will then use GEC 6080/Treasure 6SN7GT/EML 5U4G/APS v3 headphone cable for some listening/burnin testing. I will report back with my impressions such as they are being a newbie and all.
   
  @ windycitycy, I have to use a little stealth while I get this equipment in my listening room, unpackaged and installed while the wife is away at work...they always ask too many questions. Once it's in I might have half a prayer.
   
  @ balderon; free stand? I thought it was supposed to be free also (the WOO stand). But I was charged for it, don't remember how much, modest amount. The stand is backordered right now though according to my email from Jack.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> @ windycitycy, I have to use a little stealth while I get this equipment in my listening room, unpackaged and installed while the wife is away at work...they always ask too many questions. Once it's in I might have half a prayer.


 
  Just tell her when she catches you in stealth mode (and she will), hay honey some guys like to cheat some guys like drugs and others like to gamble but not me I love you and I like my little toys. btw sweet hart maybe we can go out for dinner this weekend, just you and me.


----------



## Icenine2

The wife factor.  This is why I keep my road bicycle totally out of sight (site).  I have a Litespeed Titanium that I totally updated w/new Campy Eurus no-tube wheels, 3T carbon post, new carbon fork, Fizik Antares Versus saddle, etc.  I all my windsurfing gear so it wasn't a sneak-move but................  Yesterday Competitive Cyclist put all Campagnolo Record components at 50% off which is like Jack Woo saying: "Buy a 5LE at 1/2 off today".  Out of fairness to wife I couldn't pull the trigger on that.  Had I not bought the WA22 and T-1's it would have been a no-brainer.
   
  Wife keeps asking about all the stereo gear I've sold the past month and I keep telling her "I bought a new headphone amp".  She totally won't get the tube thing.  Although much easier to endure than the "tell me again why the speakers have to be out in the room and not against the wall?  My brother and all our friends(non-audiophiles) have their speakers against the wall.  Rick and Cindy(lots of money but zero music sense) had their speakers put in the ceiling."  *The last statement of in the ceiling speakers still makes me want to run SCREAMING from the room*
   
   
  John, nice to see you got the 22.  I'm still waiting for mine.  I should have it in a few weeks judging when you took delivery.
   
  Keith


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Icenine2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> * * * * *
> Wife keeps asking about all the stereo gear I've sold the past month and I keep telling her "I bought a new headphone amp".  She totally won't get the tube thing.  Although much easier to endure than the "tell me again why the speakers have to be out in the room and not against the wall?  My brother and all our friends(non-audiophiles) have their speakers against the wall.  Rick and Cindy(lots of money but zero music sense) had their speakers put in the ceiling."  _*The last statement of in the ceiling speakers still makes me want to run SCREAMING from the room*_
> ...


 

 LOL.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
   Actually my stategy is something like this: wife does not operate computers, iPods etc. at all, even TV remotes are hard for her to master. My current system to her is complicated i.e. headless computer for music server that first must wake on lan, then be connected to either or all 5 selectable network music players (all Logitech/Slim Devices), using an iPod, laptop or any of the remotes that come with the players. Then one must powerup the APC power conditioner, power up all sources and preamp and amp from standby, select music from hard drive or internet etc. You get the picture. I like it that way for a number of reasons, not the least of which is flexability.
   
  One week ago the wife said she likes the "whole house" music in concept, but she wished that she could just put a cd in and listen with her crap headphones like the old days!
  Gentlemen, she may get just what she wants: CD player plugged into wall socket (no power conditioner), one remote (for CD), turn on WA22 with my HD800 already connected and just listen. Now she will have to select one toggle swith on the back of the WA22 to unbalanced, because my source is balanced.  I may hit a home run. But as soon as I'm rounding third base and start my slide into the plate, she'll ask "what did this cost",
  Yourrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr OUT!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Wife keeps asking about all the stereo gear I've sold the past month and I keep telling her "I bought a new headphone amp".  She totally won't get the tube thing.  Although much easier to endure than the "tell me again why the speakers have to be out in the room and not against the wall?  My brother and all our friends(non-audiophiles) have their speakers against the wall.  Rick and Cindy(lots of money but zero music sense) had their speakers put in the ceiling."  The last statement of in the ceiling speakers still makes me want to run SCREAMING from the room
> 
> 
> John, nice to see you got the 22.  I'm still waiting for mine.  I should have it in a few weeks judging when you took delivery.
> ...


 


 LOL, you are so right about speaker placement. They (wives, women) watch HGTV and read too many "style" magazines...speakers in bookshelves are for decoration, not for listening. CLUELESS is what I tell her for instance, when I see beautiful wide screen TV's that should be set up home theater style, but are instead put up over a fireplace mantle. I try to tell her that with speakers, they need to be at ear level while seated in the listening position and like wise the TV at eye level while seated in the whatching position. I have some B&W 805 "bookshelf" speakers that the wife wants to know why they are on a console as far from the wall as can be without falling off...now I'm getting wound up


----------



## dminches

I guess I should feel very lucky. Not only do I have my own entertainment room but I also have a multi-channel setup in the bedroom including a pair of floor-standing tower speakers.  Of course, I don't comment on what my wife buys for herself since she could never outspend me.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> One week ago the wife said she likes the "whole house" music in concept, but she wished that she could just put a cd in and listen with her crap headphones like the old days!
> Gentlemen, she may get just what she wants: CD player plugged into wall socket (no power conditioner), one remote (for CD), turn on WA22 with my HD800 already connected and just listen. Now she will have to select one toggle swith on the back of the WA22 to unbalanced, because my source is balanced.  I may hit a home run. But as soon as I'm rounding third base and start my slide into the plate, she'll ask "what did this cost",
> Yourrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr OUT!


 
   
  Just get her a Senn RS180.  I get my wife one and she love it.
   
  http://www.sennheiserusa.com/wireless-headphone-best-noise-sound-systems-home_502875


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> LOL, you are so right about speaker placement. They (wives, women) watch HGTV and read too many "style" magazines...speakers in bookshelves are for decoration, not for listening. CLUELESS is what I tell her for instance, when I see beautiful wide screen TV's that should be set up home theater style, but are instead put up over a fireplace mantle. I try to tell her that with speakers, they need to be at ear level while seated in the listening position and like wise the TV at eye level while seated in the whatching position. I have some B&W 805 "bookshelf" speakers that the wife wants to know why they are on a console as far from the wall as can be without falling off...now I'm getting wound up


 

 I don't disagree but you should take a look at the Revel inwall speakers, it is as good as my regular floor standing version.
   
  http://www.revelspeakers.com/Products.aspx?sysid=6


----------



## mikemalter

My wife is pretty good about it all.  She used to have her home office in a spare bedroom, but she moved it now into the master bedroom so she has a fireplace and private bath during the day.  For this I got the living room, and can move speakers and cables around as much as I want.


----------



## balderon

Quote:  





> @ balderon; free stand? I thought it was supposed to be free also (the WOO stand). But I was charged for it, don't remember how much, modest amount. The stand is backordered right now though according to my email from Jack.


 

 I would certainly ask Jack about it especially when a free stand is advertised when ordering any of the cans on his website. Let alone the amount of gear you just purchased.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





balderon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I thought about doing that, but maybe the reason is because I asked for HD800 which as you noted in your previous post, is not a listed product, and perhaps he doesn't get "jobber" pricing from Sennheiser. Sill, in the end, I'm happy that he did discount the whole package for me. Small cottage industries like Jack's need a decent profit margin so that we audiophools (misspelled on purpose) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 won't be limited to the stuff available at big box stores.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That pair of Sylvania 6SN7W metal base that were on eBay are gone as of 12/9/10....was that you Spud?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It was not me, I'm still trying to recover from my GEC and Tung-Sol issues.  But soon, I'll be back competing with you guys for tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> It was not me, I'm still trying to recover from my GEC and Tung-Sol issues.  But soon, I'll be back competing with you guys for tubes.


 

 Hope you gets to resolve your GEC and TS issues soon.  It is too bad that the seller did not ship you the exact tubes advertised on fleabay.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





			
				nututubes said:
			
		

> That pair of Sylvania 6SN7W metal base that were on eBay are gone as of 12/9/10....was that you Spud?


 

 I'm afraid so  The same seller still has some though as he has a set of 4 and 8 up for sale. They look absolutely mint so I'm stoked...... Ask he might split them.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, me too.  I'll keep you guys posted on this seller.  It would be good for everyone to know about him either way.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Fair enough. Good to hear Jack did give you a package deal.


----------



## ardilla

Hi!
   
  Just ordered a WA2 - but then the upgrade monster caught me last night and I started wondering - should I ask Jack for parts upgrades? Or save the money for tubes?
   
  I posted details in this thread: 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/470236/wa2-purchase-upgrades-worth-the#post_7114596


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Hi!
> 
> Just ordered a WA2 - but then the upgrade monster caught me last night and I started wondering - should I ask Jack for parts upgrades? Or save the money for tubes?
> 
> ...


 

 If money is not an issue, I would get the upgrade.  You can always get the NOS tubes later but getting parts upgrade is hard.  I did get the upgrade when I order my WA6 and have the upgrade on my WA22 now.  Keep in mind the upgrade is not a major change on SQ, it is very subtle but noticeable.  Especially on low volume passage or if you listen at low level.


----------



## ardilla

WA2
   
Which upgrade should I choose if I'd choose only one?
   
*Parts upgrade:*
Premium parts upgrade package. $*400*

 Blackgate output coupling capacitors, 220u/100v
 Blackgate voltage filtering capacitors, Power Tank 220uf/200V


 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




*Attenuator upgrade:*
 DACT CT2 stepped attenuator. $*215*
24-position, high accuracy and reliability

 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



*Teflon tube sockets upgrade: *
 $*150 *(9-pin x4, 8-pin x2)


----------



## jc9394

I will take the parts upgrade.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will take the parts upgrade.


 
   
  WIN! I am surprised not to see V-Caps in the upgrade list.


----------



## ardilla

Quote:


balderon said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > I will take the parts upgrade.
> ...


 
   
*jc9394 *- do you also suggest that the $400 Blackgate capacitors is a sensible way to spend money?
   
  Which V-Caps?


----------



## jc9394

It is not sensible to spend $400 but as crazy as me, if I don't ge the Black Gate, I will regret it in the future. The parts on my WA22 is much more but I do think it is worth it.


----------



## Icenine2

I just got the EML 5U4G from UPS.  Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!  Too cool looking in that box.  All I need is my amp now!
   
  BTW-None of this is sensible (referring to above post).  That doesn't mean we won't do it though.  Buying an Italian carbon seat post for my bike isn't sensible either.  I'm never going to ride the Tour in my lifetime.  But I did buy one.


----------



## Icenine2

Off topic.  I bought the HD Tracks 24/96 Steely Dan Gaucho just a few minutes ago.  You want to test your system?  It is unbelievably amazing in high-res.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Off topic.  I bought the HD Tracks 24/96 Steely Dan Gaucho just a few minutes ago.  You want to test your system?  It is unbelievably amazing in high-res.


 

 What music server are you using to play it?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OT, too. I should get Gaucho as well. I got Paul McCartney & Wings--Band on the Run 94/96 (uncompressed version) from HDtracks--absolutely wonderful. I agree; high-res is the way to go (at least, if you can). I don't have a music server so --> It's the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport > PS Audio DLIII/Cullen Mod4 > WA22 > Beyerdynamics 990 600Ω. Yummy!


----------



## mikemalter

Are you coming out of your computer?  What program are you using to play the music?  I guess I should have asked that instead of the music server question.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Are you coming out of your computer?  What program are you using to play the music?  I guess I should have asked that instead of the music server question.


 

 Oh, yes. Crucial link, yes? No. I download the flac version, convert it to wave, burn it to DVD, and use the PS Audio Transport, etc. By the way, I bought these Mullard 5AR4 rectifiers ($$$!) and listened to them and then tossed them aside and put the EML 5U4G back in the WA22. The bass has much more punch and heft with the EML than the Mullard. Does anyone know what these codes mean. I bought a matching pair even though the WA22 only needs one--sheesh!
   
  Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 f32 B9C3


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry still a little lost.  Is Crucial link software?  What do you use to convert the flac version to a .wav file?  Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I just meant that I left a crucial link out. Sorry.
   
  I own a Mac so the software I use to convert it is called MAX (*M*acintosh *A*udios for OS *X*). There are many others for PCs. I then use Toast 10 Titanium to burn the DVD.
   
  Do you know what these Mullard codes mean? f32 B9C3


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, check out this thread on code.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/312893/i-need-help-deciphering-code-date-on-raytheon-mullard-5ar4-gz34-tube


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Clayton, check out this thread on code.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/312893/i-need-help-deciphering-code-date-on-raytheon-mullard-5ar4-gz34-tube


 
   
  I should have done a little more searching but thanks for the link, *jc9394*.
   
  I guess that would mean the B9C3 codes read:
   
  B=Blackburn
  9=1959 or 1969 (I'd guess 1969 because the base is black and there are 7 notches that make up the serrated plates.)
  C=March
  3=third week
   
  I am surprised that this NOS Mullard GZ34 doesn't sound as good as the EML in my WA22.


----------



## jc9394

Give it some burn in, it takes over 300 hours on these puppy to sound good.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give it some burn in, it takes over 300 hours on these puppy to sound good.


 

 Wow--300 hours; okay will do. Do you own any Mullard GZ34's?


----------



## jc9394

I had the regular GZ34 and have the metal based one now. The bass is as much as EML once it is burn in.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I had the regular GZ34 and have the metal based one now. The bass is as much as EML once it is burn in.


 

 I give up too easily. I will report back after the 300-hour burn-in finish line (or beginning line as it were!). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Obviously I have another treasure! Thanks....


----------



## jc9394

Yes, you have. When I had my WA6, I like the Mullard GZ34 much more than Sophia. It is a really draw with EML. For some reason, the EML is better on WA22 by a nose.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How much was the pair? I was thinking of picking one up if you don't want the backup, pm me.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sorry still a little lost.  Is Crucial link software?  What do you use to convert the flac version to a .wav file?  Thanks.


 
   
  Mike, I quite often get stuff in FLAC and the easiest way of converting to WAV is via Winamp. You just open winamp and go to play file, sellect the FLAC files and Winamp converts them into WAV in the same folder. Simples!
   
  Oh and Winamp is free.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> How much was the pair? I was thinking of picking one up if you don't want the backup, pm me.


 

 They were $179 a pair. Here's another pair from the same seller. I'm going to keep the backup for now just in case they turn out to be sonic jewels.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nututubes, try every tubes you have for couple hours each to make sure they are working. Once confirmed the are all working, go for GEC6080, Treasures, and EML 5U4G. Don't waste time with stock tubes unless you are looking for base line. I skipped the stock tubes except getting the base line for couple hours. Life is short, don't listen to crappy stock tubes.


 


 Well jc and friends, I tried the WA22 for the first time Friday afternoon. My wife was at work and I wanted the amp in place with no packages laying around, all NOS spares stored out of site etc. I tested the amp and HD800s for function with the stock tubes, for maybe a half hour. I couldn't wait any longer so, in went the EML, Treasures and GEC 6080s and the APS headphone cable.
  As I had predicted, her first comment was "what did that cost?". I said "about $900", she said "oh my god, you've got to be kidding!", and she didn't mean it in a good way. Anyway, once she was seated and listening, she was obviously impressed. We took turns listened for about 2 hours. I am very pleased with the investment. I was too overwhelmed to critique my new system, but I will say that both my wife and I thought that the WA22 / Senn HD800 combination was as good (better really) as listening to my main system. Some glamor shots below!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Well jc and friends, I tried the WA22 for the first time Friday afternoon. My wife was at work and I wanted the amp in place with no packages laying around, all NOS spares stored out of site etc. I tested the amp and HD800s for function with the stock tubes, for maybe a half hour. I couldn't wait any longer so, in went the EML, Treasures and GEC 6080s and the APS headphone cable.
> As I had predicted, her first comment was "what did that cost?". I said "about $900", she said _*"oh my god, you've got to be kidding!", and she didn't mean it in a good way.*_ Anyway, once she was seated and listening, she was obviously impressed. We took turns listened for about 2 hours. I am very pleased with the investment. I was too overwhelmed to critique my new system, but I will say that both my wife and I thought that the WA22 / Senn HD800 combination was as good (better really) as listening to my main system. Some glamor shots below!


 
  And what are we getting the wife for Christmas? That is if, of course, you do celebrate it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was unaware that Jack sold balanced Senn HD800. Your setup is very impressive looking. Congratulations on your purchase and your wife's acceptance thereof.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Those are metal-base Sylvania 6SN7W's, and they are excellent.  They are bold, muscular, and big sounding.  Not for the detail freak, but otherwise outstanding.  I do have a pair, which I use sparingly, since those are harder to get in good condition than the TS BGRP are.


 

 Is there any difference between the Sylvania metal base 6SN7As and the 6SN7Ws?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Mike, I quite often get stuff in FLAC and the easiest way of converting to WAV is via Winamp. You just open winamp and go to play file, sellect the FLAC files and Winamp converts them into WAV in the same folder. Simples!
> 
> Oh and Winamp is free.....


 
   
  Great! Thanks! I'll use Winamp on my PC at work (during my lunch breaks of course).


----------



## dminches

Another software package to consider is dbpoweramp.  While it isn't free, it is most versatile of all the options.  It works great for converting from flac to apple lossless.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is there any difference between the Sylvania metal base 6SN7As and the 6SN7Ws?


 


  That I am aware of, no.  But I'm not certain of this.  They certainly LOOK identical.
   
  ---------------------------------------
   
  @ nututubes - great looking setup, man!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nu, really nice photos.
   
  It's going to take about 50 hours for your stuff to break in and settle down.  What you have in there is really good.  What I would do next would be to replace the GEC 6080's with the GEC 6AS7G's and I think you'll be amazed at how much smoother it sounds. 
   
  What equipment are you using to feed your WA22?
   
  I never cease to be amazed at the WA22 listening experience.  Everytime I listen, I see into the music in a much more detailed and intimate way than any setup I have owned or listenend to before.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, I got it now.  Thanks.
   
  I really need to branch out and get a PWD and a PWT.  I am so stuck in the Apple walled garden.  This is my goal for 2011; a PWD and a PWT and off to Hi-Rez music and really hear what the Woo can do.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Another software package to consider is dbpoweramp.  While it isn't free, it is most versatile of all the options.  It works great for converting from flac to apple lossless.


 

 This is nice to know.  At least I can listen to something nice while enjoying the view in my walled garden.  Thanks, I'm going to look into these guys.


----------



## Icenine2

Just checked my email.  Woo WA22+Tesla T-1's ship Tuesday!!.
   
  Steely Dan High-Res just coming out of the computer at this point.  New DAC which I'll order in a few weeks will kick that up huge.  I A/B'd my other copies.  High-re is definitely the deal.  I fully expect them to take more and more of my money!  I'm hoping for some Hendrix, Floyd, Zep, Beethoven via Karjan.  I also have Beatles on the USB high-res (huge difference), All Things must pass, Koln Concerts.  All impressive.  You can't stop listening once you start.


----------



## Icenine2

John (Nutubes),
   
  Nice rig.  Catching up on the posts here.  Did you tell the wife that $900 was_ just_ the tubes?  
   
  Here's my similar story:  1995.  I had set up my brand new $5,0000 Proceed CDD/DAP transport and DAC.  She walks in the room, see's the gear and no skipping of beats asks "how much did that cost?"  I replying  "five" hoping to escape she'll buy into $500 since she shares as much enthusiasm about audio as Formula 1 racing, Campagnolo cycling components and soccer.  She yells: "Five thousand dollars!?  That is the last CD player you'll own!"  Which proved to be true since I sold it and within a month will be going direct out of the computer into a DAC>big rig system.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> John (Nutubes),
> 
> Nice rig.  Catching up on the posts here.  Did you tell the wife that $900 was_ just_ the tubes?
> 
> Here's my similar story:  1995.  I had set up my brand new $5,0000 Proceed CDD/DAP transport and DAC.  She walks in the room, see's the gear and no skipping of beats asks "how much did that cost?"  I replying  "five" hoping to escape she'll buy into $500 since she shares as much enthusiasm about audio as Formula 1 racing, Campagnolo cycling components and soccer.  She yells: "Five thousand dollars!?  That is the last CD player you'll own!"  Which proved to be true since I sold it and within a month will be going direct out of the computer into a DAC>big rig system.


 

  
  I think you put an extra 0 on the $5,000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And yes, Nututubes: your wife never specified exactly _what_ it was that cost so much money.  Thank god for loopholes...


----------



## WindyCityCy

I bought the brown base while waiting for my new 5U4G EML.  I didn't give it more than 20 hours of use but to me the EML is way better in WA22 - even right out of the box.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Icenine2 -
   
  Did you decide which DAC you're getting?


----------



## mikemalter

Now you guys have me going.  I got MediaMonkey and am playing music out of my laptop.  It's a Sager and it actually has a digital out at 24/96.  So, I've moved my DAC over and am getting into HD Tracks free sampler.  May get some additional HD.
   
  The sound is a little different than from my iPod/Wadia i170 there is something extra that I can't quite put my finger on.  I have a Monarchy DIP I might throw between my laptop and DAC and test with that.
   
  Do you guys have some favorites from HD Tracks you can recommend?


----------



## Skylab

The Alison Krauss - Robert Plant stuff on HD Tracks is stunning sonically.


----------



## Icenine2

Oops, I did put an extra zero on number for the DAC/transport.  It should have been $5000.  Wishful thinking here.
   
  I decided on the Wyred4Sound DAC2.  I have spoken with HRT twice about the upcoming HRT HD which looks to be nice.  Fully balanced, external power supply (non wart).


----------



## WindyCityCy

I love my DAC2.  I'm sure you'll be quite happy with your decision.


----------



## wollabilla

Just got my WA6-SE - so excited! 
   
  However, two pairs of 6EW7's were included; one from Sylvania and one from GE. Which is the better option?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

In my WA-6 maxxed with pdps but non SE, I preferred the Sylvania, but only slightly. But I liked the 6DE7 better than the 6EW7, and the 6FD7 even better (assuming your WA6SE is one of the newer ones and can use them).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Alison Krauss - Robert Plant stuff on HD Tracks is stunning sonically.


 

 Got it.  Very nice, thanks for the selection.  Going to look at others and if you have any other fav's, let me know.
   
  So, a shift today from iPod/Wadia i170. 
   
  I dusted off my Monarchy Audio 48/96 DIP and put it in front of my laptop.  The Monarchy is feeding my PS Audio DLIII DAC hi-rez tunes I got off of HD Tracks.  My laptop actually has a digital out and it has a 24 bit 96 Hz driver.  I using Media Monkey to play and my output plugin is waveOut with the largest buffer setting.  For those Media Monkey users, is there a better output plugin?  For others using windows computers, what do you think is the highest-end player out there?
   
  Don't know what to think yet.  I have to tell you that I am really impressed with the quality of higher rez sound.  I'll probably go back and forth now between apple lossless via MM and iPod/Wadia.
   
  One additional question for the PWD with bridge users out there.  Did you ever compare performance of the PWD using Media Monkey vs the bridge?
  
  Interesting times.


----------



## jc9394

PWD's USB is not that great, the Bridge is way better. Actually it is the same as PWT to my ears when using lossless files.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> PWD's USB is not that great, the Bridge is way better. Actually it is the same as PWT to my ears when using lossless files.


 

 Does your computer have a coax out for a digital signal?


----------



## dminches

My computer setup includes a Digital Audio Labs Card Deluxe which converts up to 24/96.  This currently feeds my CI Audio VHP-2 headamp which will be replaced by the Leben cs-300x once it arrives.  The DAL card got excellent reviews in Stereophile several months ago.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> Does your computer have a coax out for a digital signal?







Yes, that is what I was using before the Bridge. But the Bridge is better than coax input, the Bridge is same as PWT. 

The quality of input:

1. PWT with I2S 
1. Bridge
2. PWT with coax
3. Sony S7700 with coax
4. Wadia 170i 
5. USB

These are the sources I tried on PWD.

Back on topic. I received Sylvania 6F8G few days ago, it does sound very similar to the TS I got but cost almost half.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, that is what I was using before the Bridge. But the Bridge is better than coax input, the Bridge is same as PWT. The quality of input:1. PWT with I2S 1. Bridge2. PWT with coax3. Sony S7700 with coax4. Wadia 170i 5. USBThese are the sources I tried on PWD.Back on topic. I received Sylvania 6F8G few days ago, it does sound very similar to the TS I got but cost almost half.


 

 JC, thanks for posting your sonic ranking.  I can see now that the PWD and bridge are going to be a priority for me next year.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Now you guys have me going.  I got MediaMonkey and am playing music out of my laptop.  It's a Sager and it actually has a digital out at 24/96.  So, I've moved my DAC over and am getting into HD Tracks free sampler.  May get some additional HD.
> 
> The sound is a little different than from my iPod/Wadia i170 there is something extra that I can't quite put my finger on.  I have a Monarchy DIP I might throw between my laptop and DAC and test with that.
> 
> Do you guys have some favorites from HD Tracks you can recommend?


 
   
   
 [size=8.33333px]
 De Mis Recuerdos 6:34





                        flac            $2.49
[/size]   
   
   
 [size=8.33333px]
[size=9pt] 

[/size][size=9pt]



[/size][size=9pt] Audiophile 96/24 FLAC
Title:  Xiomara 
Artist:  Xiomara Laugart 
Genre:  Latin / Cuban 
Label:  Chesky Records
[/size]
[/size]   
  In this track (translation = My Memories) there's minor feedback from keyboards at times in the recording. But her honey-drenched vocals more than make up for it - lush; liquid and down right sexy! David Chesky used a single omni-directional mic inside a church in New York City for this recording.
   
   
 Reviews
 [size=9.02778px]  [/size]
 [size=9.02778px]"Exuding sex from her pores with the rare confidence of a seasoned performer, Havana-born Xiomara [See-oh-mahr-ah] Laugart keeps the audience of a packed New York City nightclub under a giddy spell... Leggy, slender-framed and with eyes that sparkle like fireworks, Laugart is the most visible member of Yerba Buena, a 10-piece orchestra packed with star power that is adding a fresh twist to new Latin music." - Global Rhythm​[/size]
 [size=9.02778px] ​[/size]
 [size=9.02778px] ​[/size]
   
   
   
   
  I'll mention a few more in the week ahead. Currently, system is down for minor upgrades; shelf redesign. Will peek at my library when I plug in the Mac.
   
  From another hi-res site (iTrax.com) I purchased "Red Clay" by The Patrice Rushen Trio (Piano, Bass & Drums) 96/24kHz - beautiful!. Also, make sure you visit Ken Poon's site for a few hi-res samplers.
   
  [size=7.63889px]Satie, arr. Debussy: Gymnopedie No. 1[/size]
  Satie, arr. Debussy: Gymnopedie No.1 & No.2 (88/24kHz) sound very beautiful. I got No.1 as a sampler but may end up buying all 12 tracks from "Reveries" - Minnesota Orchestra | Eiji Oue.
   
  [size=10.4167px]*[size=small]Music[/size]*[/size]


 [size=10.4167px]*Reference Recordings HRx* (24/176.2) $45 per disc
Review (06/15/2008) | Site[/size]
 
 [size=10.4167px]*Kent Poon's Audiophile Jazz Prologue III* $43
Review (01/23/2009) | Site[/size]
 
 [size=10.4167px]*Linn Records*
Site (Listed 3/07/2010)[/size]
 
 [size=10.4167px]*HDtracks*
Site (Listed 3/07/2010)[/size]
 
 [size=10.4167px]*B&W Society of Sound*
Site (Listed 3/07/2010)[/size]
 
 [size=10.4167px]*iTrax*
Site (Listed 3/07/2010)[/size]
 
 [size=10.4167px]*High Definition Tape Transfers*
Site (Listed 3/07/2010)[/size]
 
 [size=10.4167px]*The Tape Project* (Analog Only)
Site (Listed 3/07/2010)[/size]
  ADD
          Chesky.com
   
   
 [size=8.33333px]

[/size]


----------



## ardilla

*Woo Attenuator Upgrade*
   
  I'm still considering upgrades to my ordered WA2: With regards to the* DACT attenuator* - I fear that 24 steps will be to few?
   
  Anybody having experience with the DACT Attenuator in practical use - is it a problem to adjust the volume to your preference?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Well Mike, my source equipment consists of a _Logitech_ (Slim Devices) _Transporter_, which is a network music player with a very nice DAC, and balanced outputs. The other source is a _Rotel RCD 1072_, which is for my wife to use instead of the more complex server setup. 
  I will most certainly be trying out those GEC 6as7, but next up I think I will try the Sylvania 7236 from Jack or some Tung-Sol 5998 . The reason is that in my short 2 day trials with a variety of music (all sourced from the Transporter), I felt that I had to run the volume knob past 75% more often than I thought that I would have to. This was especially true with some classical recordings that I have, and is not a discredit to the WA22, my Rotel RB-1080 200 watt/channel and B&W 805s have the same problem,  I think maybe the HD800s could use more power fed to them.
  My only slight negative experience so far is the low level noise (hiss) that I can hear. Is this a slightly elevated noise floor, HD800 sibilance or new un-burned tubes not yet settled down? I do not know.
   
  The next thing I will try is to use the WA22 balanced outputs as a preamp for my Rotel power amp.
   
  BTW, Mike in another post, you asked about high quality, hires format files. I personaly like using  https://www.hdtracks.com/ , http://www.linnrecords.com and http://www.deutschegrammophon.com for my online music purchases.     
   
  The most impressive experience I've had listening to the WA22/HD800 combo so far has been listening to my recent HD Tracks purchase, Steely Dan Gaucho in 96/24 file format..


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Well Mike, my source equipment consists of a _Logitech_ (Slim Devices) _Transporter_, which is a network music player with a very nice DAC, and balanced outputs. The other source is a _Rotel RCD 1072_, which is for my wife to use instead of the more complex server setup.


 

 If you really want to hear the Transporter at its best you should consider the Modwright upgrade.  It transforms the unit into a very high end piece.  I highly recommend it.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 IIRC, there are more than one Modwright upgrade packages available. Which would you reccomend?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I believe Dan is only doing one now and that is the platinum signature truth mod.  The description on his web page is a little outdated.    The analog tube section uses 2 6SN7-class tube and a 5ar4 rectifier.  What's great about the transporter in general is not only does it stream music but it has digital inputs so you can use it as a DAC.


----------



## Icenine2

You PS Audio boys w/PWD should check out the Wyred4Sound page.  The DA2C has HDMI and somewhere I read (I can't find it now of course) it's an improvement over the PWD if you are using their transport.


----------



## jc9394

icenine2 said:


> You PS Audio boys w/PWD should check out the Wyred4Sound page.  The DA2C has HDMI and somewhere I read (I can't find it now of course) it's an improvement over the PWD if you are using their transport.







I was using I2S (HDMI) connecting PWT to PWD, it is a major improvement over coax and optical connection.


----------



## jc9394

nututubes said:


> Well Mike, my source equipment consists of a _Logitech_ (Slim Devices) _Transporter_, which is a network music player with a very nice DAC, and balanced outputs. The other source is a _Rotel RCD 1072_, which is for my wife to use instead of the more complex server setup.
> I will most certainly be trying out those GEC 6as7, but next up I think I will try the Sylvania 7236 from Jack or some Tung-Sol 5998 . The reason is that in my short 2 day trials with a variety of music (all sourced from the Transporter), I felt that I had to run the volume knob past 75% more often than I thought that I would have to. This was especially true with some classical recordings that I have, and is not a discredit to the WA22, my Rotel RB-1080 200 watt/channel and B&W 805s have the same problem,  I think maybe the HD800s could use more power fed to them.
> My only slight negative experience so far is the low level noise (hiss) that I can hear. Is this a slightly elevated noise floor, HD800 sibilance or new un-burned tubes not yet settled down? I do not know.
> 
> ...







What is th output voltage of your source? I can never turn the pot pass 40% on my WA22 with either GEC tubes, whening using TS5998, I have to turn the pot down to 8-9 o'clock.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> You PS Audio boys w/PWD should check out the Wyred4Sound page.  The DA2C has HDMI and somewhere I read (I can't find it now of course) it's an improvement over the PWD if you are using their transport.


 

 I own the PS Audio PWT so I'll check out the DAC2. It's 1/2 the price of the PWD. Thanks!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> The next thing I will try is to use the WA22 balanced outputs as a preamp for my Rotel power amp.
> 
> The most impressive experience I've had listening to the WA22/HD800 combo so far has been listening to my recent HD Tracks purchase, Steely Dan Gaucho in 96/24 file format..


 

 If that works well then you may want and try a HiFiman HE6, It will blow your mind. Your WA22 is not powerful enough to power the HE6 but your Rotel may be good.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I also have the HD-800's (Cardas cable), they now have become my backup headphones. 
   
  The only Woo head amp that will properly power the HE6 is the WA5/LE with out a external amp.


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, check out Agon. You can find a new PWD for under $2K. I got a pair of BNIB PWD and PWT with PS Audio HDMI and pair their power cables for a tad under $4K shipped.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is a really nice list, thank you for it.
   
  I had to move away from using my computer as a source.  Even with the Monarchy DIP to reduce jitter, the presentation of the music was too rough. I could tell the difference between hi-rez music, it was spectacular, but there was too much noise on the line for this to be used for any more of a short listening session.  Got the dBpoweramp thanks to Dminches and had to convert my new FLAC music down because the iPod can't play 96Hz.  I'm going to import them and hear how it sounds today.  Will probably hold off on music purchases until I get my PWD with bridge.
   
  Hi rez music is so incredible.  It's like upgrading tubes!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Well Mike, my source equipment consists of a _Logitech_ (Slim Devices) _Transporter_, which is a network music player with a very nice DAC, and balanced outputs. The other source is a _Rotel RCD 1072_, which is for my wife to use instead of the more complex server setup.
> I will most certainly be trying out those GEC 6as7, but next up I think I will try the Sylvania 7236 from Jack or some Tung-Sol 5998 . The reason is that in my short 2 day trials with a variety of music (all sourced from the Transporter), I felt that I had to run the volume knob past 75% more often than I thought that I would have to. This was especially true with some classical recordings that I have, and is not a discredit to the WA22, my Rotel RB-1080 200 watt/channel and B&W 805s have the same problem,  I think maybe the HD800s could use more power fed to them.
> My only slight negative experience so far is the low level noise (hiss) that I can hear. Is this a slightly elevated noise floor, HD800 sibilance or new un-burned tubes not yet settled down? I do not know.
> 
> ...


 


  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What is th output voltage of your source? I can never turn the pot pass 40% on my WA22 with either GEC tubes, whening using TS5998, I have to turn the pot down to 8-9 o'clock.


 


 Nu, I agree with JC.  When I use my PS Audio DLIII DAC and use the high impedence selection on the WA22 3 clicks is normal and maybe 2 more clicks to really crank it.  When I put my Monarchy DIP in the picture, I have to pod all the way down to a 1 for normal listening.  Also, I find that using the low impedence switch will give me a little more granular control over the volume. 
   
  I have had Modwright's mod's before.  I got my Sony 9000ES modded by him and it was really nice.  On the other hand, you might want to think about using a seperate DAC.  You have the best that best has to offer with the WA22 and the tubes you have are the creme de la creme.  I am not knocking the Transporter, it's just that there is a lot of other things going on in there, and you might want a seperate isolated DAC to keep noise and hash down.  That said, I have not heard the Signature Truth mods on the Transporter, so others here with that gear would be more credible.
   
  I'm not sure the WA22 can be used like a preamp the way you were thinking of using it.  I would not even try it.  Your mileage may vary.
   
  Regarding the sonic signature of your gear.  I found that the HD800 needed 40 hours to break in at least, so maybe some of the stuff you are hearing is a result of equipment not yet burned in.
   
  Thanks for the links to hirez music.  I'll look at Steely Dan.  How do you play your music after downloading it?


----------



## dannie01

Having downloaded the first track of the "Reveries" - Minnesota Orchestra / Eiji Oue  an and listen.   and listening (entire tracks are on the way going). Very beauty music indeed, thanks SilentOne.
   
  I saved all downloaded music to a QNap NAS and play in my Linn Akurate DS, control with the Linn KinskyDestop in my laptop.


----------



## jc9394

Dannie01, how are you doing my friend? You have been MIA for a while, is the WA5 fully modded?


----------



## dannie01

Hi buddies, how are you?
   
  I'm fine jc, thanks. Just moved to a new apartment a month ago (everything is like a mess) and just got my internet connected few days ago. Now is being settled and back to my world of music and HERE in Head-fi. The WA5LE have just mod with a 30 steps Shallco attenuator and some BG NH, it looks like a little messy but sounds beautiful.


----------



## jc9394

Looks very nice, I will definitely call you to audition your WA5 if I ever set foot in HK. Now, new place, you will need more toys to fill the house. I will be moving too next April or May. I have my eyes on few new toys but wife said no since I opt for a new kitchen appliances.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks my friend and welcome when you're back to HK anytime.
   
  Same here as you, I've spent a lot on the new home so no more for new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I'll squeeze for a cheap vinyl set-up later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## dannie01

This is my new target, the Rega P-3 with Elys2 cartridge, phono amp and PSU.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What is th output voltage of your source? I can never turn the pot pass 40% on my WA22 with either GEC tubes, whening using TS5998, I have to turn the pot down to 8-9 o'clock.


 


 Hello again jc. I don't know offhand what the output voltage of the Transporter is. I also didn't like the TS5998 during the very short test that I gave it.
  The few hours of tube rolling I did today are not only inconclusive, but also not a fair assessment of a tube's qualities given the short duration (burn in etc.), But here are my first impressions of the WA22 with HD800 phones;

 Keep in mind that I am over 60, but I did pass a hearing test recently, I did well for my age.
 I also recognize the fact that most people will confuse louder volume with quality during blind ABX testing.
   
  Today I picked one classical recording, Strauss, The last four songs, Jessye Norman soprano, tracks 3 & 4. I set the WA22 volume knob at 12 o'clock (50%), then tried changing power and driver tubes every few minutes. (again, I know not the best way to test)
   
  The power tubes that I tried were:

 GEC 6080, GEC 6AS7G, TS 5998 and Sylvania 7236.
   
  The driver tubes that I tried were:

 Shuguang 6SN7 Treasures, Tung-Sol 6SN7GT BGRP (oval plate) and Tung-Sol 6F8G with Glenn's adapters.
   
  The rectifier for all tests was EML 5U4G mesh plate.
   
  Certainly not a scientific test but nonetheless, here is what I found or what I liked or what I found the most pleasing.
    
  To my ears and under these conditions I found that:

 The Treasures are not as quiet as the TS BGRPs (no surprise there).
 The TS BGRPs are absolutely quiet and beautiful sounding, and the most pleasing to my ear
 The TS 6F8G sound as good as the TS BGRPs.
 The TS 5998 was noisy, again not a fair assessment after only a few minutes run time
 The GECs, both 6080 and 6AS7G were quiet but sounded about the same to me, i.e. at 50% volume level not as pleasing as the 7236 (now that is a surprise)
 The Sylvania 7236 seemed to have more power to drive the HD800s 
   
  The combo that I liked the best so far is Sylvania 7236 with TS BGRP.
   
  I also did try the WA22 as a preamp ahead of my Rotel power amp. The WA22 noise floor is noticeably higher that my Rotel RC-1070.
   
  Report done for now. Back to listening.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thanks for the links to hirez music.  I'll look at Steely Dan.  How do you play your music after downloading it?


 


   First I check the tags using MP3 Tag software, make sure the album art is good, go to amazon for better art if necessary, then it is saved in a folder. The software player I use is called SqueezeCenter and the music is then streamed to any or all of 5 players around the house.


----------



## dminches

nututubes, when you describe a tube as noisy, can you explain what you mean?  Are you saying that the noise floor is increased and during quiet passages the noise breaks through the silence?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dminches said:


> nututubes, when you describe a tube as noisy, can you explain what you mean?  Are you saying that the noise floor is increased and during quiet passages the noise breaks through the silence?


 


 Yes, that's how I would describe it. I may not be using the correct technical description (noise floor), but with the amp on, and source on, there should be silence with no music playing. That's what my main Rotel SS system sounds like (or dosen't sound like) at the speakers. So far, I do hear some background "hiss" in the headphones more or less depending on the tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hi buddies, how are you?
> 
> I'm fine jc, thanks. Just moved to a new apartment a month ago (everything is like a mess) and just got my internet connected few days ago. Now is being settled and back to my world of music and HERE in Head-fi. The WA5LE have just mod with a 30 steps Shallco attenuator and some BG NH, it looks like a little messy but sounds beautiful.


 
  Hi dannie01! Good to see you and your mods!!! Where in the world do you find the time to move and do mods, too? That 30-step Shallco attenuator is very, very nice. It's too bad you can't mount it outside the chassis where everyone can see it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Having downloaded the first track of the "Reveries" - Minnesota Orchestra / Eiji Oue  an and listen.   and listening (entire tracks are on the way going). Very beauty music indeed, thanks SilentOne.
> 
> I saved all downloaded music to a QNap NAS and play in my Linn Akurate DS, control with the Linn KinskyDestop in my laptop.


 

 Nice to see your return to this space. For a twin calming effect, try listening to "Reveries" with a warm cup of green tea. You'll be the envy of your own house cat. Now, the spouse on the other hand, may wanna throw (playfully) a pillow at you. Warning - with your head back and eyes closed, you won't see it coming!


----------



## jc9394

Nututubes, give the tubes some burn in. It will take a while since you have so many tubes. I'm really surprise on the 7236, it is the one I like the least. Both TS BGRP and 6F8G sound very similar to me too, that is why I recommended.


----------



## lukaskite

One note about TS 7236.
   
  I listening to them right now on my wa2 and its a nice sounding tube BUT now were near TS 5988 or 6as7g GEC. They lacks transparency/focus, tends to blend instruments together, smooths out everything and sound stage is more 2D like, the sound is bright but hights lack definition (insted of bang/bang its more like kssszzz/ksszzz).
   
  Popping GEC's back bring out everything from the music (for good or bad) as they're crazy transparent/dark sounding tubes but hights are MUCH more precise in the sound field and it can trow very big out of the head sound or small more in head depend on what you feed them. 
   
  And TS 5998 have best balance/body/precision and can be paired with any driver/rectifier tubes out there (even if it's slightly less transparent than GEC's)
   
  I'm sorry if i offended 7236 lovers but sound quality wise they disappointed me big time.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





lukaskite said:


> One note about TS 7236.
> 
> I listening to them right now on my wa2 and its a nice sounding tube BUT now were near TS 5988 or 6as7g GEC. They lacks transparency/focus, tends to blend instruments together, smooths out everything and sound stage is more 2D like, the sound is bright but hights lack definition (insted of bang/bang its more like kssszzz/ksszzz).
> 
> ...


 

 I agree about the TS 7236 in my WA22.  Although the Tung-Sols were a large step-up from other 6AS7G/6080s, my GEC 6080s are smoother and have taken up a permanent spot in my amp until I get my hands on a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs.


----------



## lukaskite

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> I agree about the TS 7236 in my WA22.  Although the Tung-Sols were a large step-up from other 6AS7G/6080s, my GEC 6080s are smoother and have taken up a permanent spot in my amp until I get my hands on a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs.


 

 Well my 6as7g GEC's are definitely the last in smoothing the sound compared to rest of the pack as they bring a lot of detail from background so if you have any weakens in your setup they will show it .


----------



## nututubes

FWIW and for the record, I was using the Sylvania 7236 in my test, not a TS 7236. Also I was refering to the power available from a 7236 (2w) compared to 6080 @ .8w.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Man, I really love my WA22.  My KenRad VT-231s went through a definite change a few weeks ago and since then, they seem to be getting better and better.  Everything sounds right tonight (maybe it's the tea).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Whether it's a foot-tappin' song or a goose-bumper, I'm rockin' out.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> FWIW and for the record, I was using the Sylvania 7236 in my test, not a TS 7236. Also I was refering to the power available from a 7236 (2w) compared to 6080 @ .8w.


 

 Nututubes, yes the Sylvania 7236 power tube will definately give the WA22 a boost.  I never liked the tube as I found the sound to be too raw for my tastes. 
   
  After the GEC 6AS7G, my next favorite power tube is the RCA 6080.  I have a pair of the GEC 6080's which I am going to sell as I think they have the same sonic profile as the Sylvania although not as raw and definately much smoother.  I do have a pair of Tung-Sol 7AS7G's which are my backup power tubes I keep in an emergency and they are nice and smooth, but not as smooth and revealing as the GEC.


----------



## jc9394

Dusted off an old tube (metal base GZ34) that was my flavor when I had WA6, I like it more than the Sophia Princess and EML 274B.  It is a toss with EML 5U4G on WA6 but the EML win by a nose on WA22.  Sorry for the crappy pics, still learning to use it, got it as xmas gift to wife.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Nice to see your return to this space. For a twin calming effect, try listening to "Reveries" with a warm cup of green tea. You'll be the envy of your own house cat. Now, the spouse on the other hand, may wanna throw (playfully) a pillow at you. Warning - with your head back and eyes closed, you won't see it coming!







I prefer with glass of single malt scotch, a 18 years Mccallan will be perfect.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi dannie01! Good to see you and your mods!!! Where in the world do you find the time to move and do mods, too? That 30-step Shallco attenuator is very, very nice. It's too bad you can't mount it outside the chassis where everyone can see it.


 


 Hi Clayton, the Shallco is a very nice piece of work indeed. It is also very large compare to the DACT that was in the WA22, not to mention the Alps, it's huge to compare with. I have to move the little PCB a little backward close to the tube socket for it properly sit inside the WA5LE. Also, the mounting hole has been enlarged, the shaft of the Shallco is a bit to large to fit to the original knob. I use a file and spent an hour on it, what a hard work but fun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nice to see your return to this space. For a twin calming effect, try listening to "Reveries" with a warm cup of green tea. You'll be the envy of your own house cat. Now, the spouse on the other hand, may wanna throw (playfully) a pillow at you. Warning - with your head back and eyes closed, you won't see it coming!


 
   
  Thanks SilentOne and your recommendation. I did bought some recording from the HDTracks before but they have quite a large of collection, you'll always missed something good.
   
  Wow, you're right, jc. What an concidence, I have a glass of Glenmorangie*    G* 18 yrs on rock when I'm listening last night, it makes the music more smoother and feel warm.
   
  Cheers


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Dusted off an old tube (metal base GZ34) that was my flavor when I had WA6, I like it more than the Sophia Princess and EML 274B.  It is a toss with EML 5U4G on WA6 but the EML win by a nose on WA22.  Sorry for the crappy pics, still learning to use it, got it as xmas gift to wife.


 
  Nice pictures.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Dusted off an old tube (metal base GZ34) that was my flavor when I had WA6, I like it more than the Sophia Princess and EML 274B.  It is a toss with EML 5U4G on WA6 but the EML win by a nose on WA22.  Sorry for the crappy pics, still learning to use it, got it as xmas gift to wife.


 


 I always love the WA22 and miss it sooooooooooooooooo much.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I prefer with glass of single malt scotch, a 18 years Mccallan will be perfect.


 
  @ jc9394
  @ dannie01
   
_The Kiss of Champange_
   
  When I want perfect, I want a cuvee with nice tight bubbles inside my flute. Rising in perfect harmony, no less. Then there's the Woo to consider... faithfully performing inside my listening room. Without a doubt, a pairing that provides enjoyment, mystery and magic well in to the night!


----------



## flaming_june

Nothing beats Jwalker Blue.  Cheers.
   
   
  Everyone's eyeing the W22.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Nothing beats Jwalker Blue.  Cheers.


 
   
  That's the one I love, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oops, no whisky glasses.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nututubes, give the tubes some burn in. It will take a while since you have so many tubes. I'm really surprise on the 7236, it is the one I like the least. Both TS BGRP and 6F8G sound very similar to me too, that is why I recommended.


 

 Hi jc. I will give the tubes some burn in time. This past weekend was very exciting and emotional, what with just having received a WA22, A pair of Senn HD800s and about $2K worth of tubes to play with, it was difficult to focus and be objective in my analysis.
   
  Tonight, and for the next few weeks, I will be using the GEC 6080 for power tubes and the Treasures for drivers. After the holidays I will try some other tubes. For right now I will just listen, and leave the tube collection in their boxes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW jc, I think that I finally did find the info that you requested. My source, the _*Logitech Transporter has @ the XLR output connector:*_
_*4.7Vpp into 110 ohms.*_
   
  Thanks to all who helped me with their experiences and guidance!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> > I'm not sure the WA22 can be used like a preamp the way you were thinking of using it.  I would not even try it.  Your mileage may vary. Regarding the sonic signature of your gear.  I found that the HD800 needed 40 hours to break in at least, so maybe some of the stuff you are hearing is a result of equipment not yet burned in.


 


 Thanks Mike. I would not have tried using the WA22 as a preamp without talking first with Jack Wu. He said it would be fine. You are right of course about breaking in first. I expect that the next time I try the WA22 as a preamp, it will be quieter and I hope as quiet as my Rotel preamp.


----------



## oldwine

Hi guys,
   
  I have an interesting question. As WA22 have 2 types of headphone jacks (3-pin XLR, 4-pin XLR for balanced in, SE for RCA in), may i know can WA22 drive ALL at the SAME time??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 esp. can the 3-pin and 4-pin.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks SilentOne and your recommendation. I did bought some recording from the HDTracks before but they have quite a large of collection, you'll always missed something good.
> Wow, you're right, jc. What an concidence, I have a glass of Glenmorangie*    G* 18 yrs on rock when I'm listening last night, it makes the music more smoother and feel warm.
> 
> Cheers


 


  I do like Glenmorangie too, there are too many choice. 


  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I always love the WA22 and miss it sooooooooooooooooo much.


 
   
  I have taken very good care of your baby since received back from Jack.  I also get her a lot of new toys too...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   


  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Nothing beats Jwalker Blue.  Cheers.
> 
> 
> Everyone's eyeing the W22.


 

 Johnnie Blue, one fine sctoch but some times I find it too smooth.
   
  Here are my recent purchase from JPN trip.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have an interesting question. As WA22 have 2 types of headphone jacks (3-pin XLR, 4-pin XLR for balanced in, SE for RCA in), may i know can WA22 drive ALL at the SAME time??
> 
> ...


 


 Interesting question that I can't answer. Another perhaps more important issue might be the use of sets of both high and low impedance headphones simultaneously. Only one choice can be made on the selector knob i.e. hi or lo.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I did tested before, have HD800 on 3 Pin, D7000 on 4 Pin, and HF-2 on SE mode and they all sound fine.  It is not as idea if you have all high impedance headphone.


----------



## nututubes

A question for Dannie01 and jc9394 about capacitor upgrade on a WA22. Would such an upgrade make the amp quieter?


----------



## jc9394

One more off topic, I saw this in a Japan bar during the last visit and at Maccallan tour in Boston and thinking picking it up.
   
  http://iceballmold.com/Home.html


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> A question for Dannie01 and jc9394 about capacitor upgrade on a WA22. Would such an upgrade make the amp quieter?


 


 I don't believe so, the WA22 is dead quiet.  I use my JH13 a lot and did not notice any hum, hiss, or power noise.  Once a while I heard tube pings before it it properly warm up.  Give it some time burn in or use a different outlet.  The last option is get a PS Audio power re-generator.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> One more off topic, I saw this in a Japan bar during the last visit and at Maccallan tour in Boston and thinking picking it up.
> 
> http://iceballmold.com/Home.html


 

 Those do look fantastic jc....
   
  I do like Whiskey but I'm not a Scotch drinker, I like my Irish.
   
  ''It's full-bodied flavour, is like a friendly handshake'' What ever that means??


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I do like Whiskey but I'm not a Scotch drinker, I like my Irish.
> 
> ''It's full-bodied flavour, is like a friendly handshake'' What ever that means??


 

  
  You reminded me my last trip to Ireland if I can remember anything...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's nice to know that you can use the WA22 as a preamp.  I did not know you could do that.  I guess using the XLR outputs would make sense.  I might try it myself.  I have an Audio Research VT100 that takes XLR in.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> A question for Dannie01 and jc9394 about capacitor upgrade on a WA22. Would such an upgrade make the amp quieter?


 


  Hi NU, jc answered your question for me and I do agree with him. The WA22 is already dead quiet before the mod and let yours burn-in for a while longer and have fun with some tubes rolling.


----------



## Clayton SF

All this talk of the 3 W's: Whisky, Whiskey, and Woo; and good amps and good drink that I will have to stop by this shop on my way home from work:
   
The Whisky Shop in San Francisco.


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, I love this shop.  Too bad, TSA banned carry on...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> One more off topic, I saw this in a Japan bar during the last visit and at Maccallan tour in Boston and thinking picking it up.
> 
> http://iceballmold.com/Home.html


 


 What a good finding, jc. I'm interested in those Ice Ball Molds and have visited their website, what I'll say is, say the money for some "Good Old Light Bulbs", at least in the meanwhile.
   
  Let me know the address if you still have, I'll visit this bar just for these ice balls with Scotch in my next trip to Tokyo, btw, is it located in Tokyo?


----------



## Skylab

I took another pic of my Woo 6 glowing - that amp's been harder to capture the tube glow on, but I am getting closer:


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> What a good finding, jc. I'm interested in those Ice Ball Molds and have visited their website, what I'll say is, say the money for some "Good Old Light Bulbs", at least in the meanwhile.
> 
> Let me know the address if you still have, I'll visit this bar just for these ice balls with Scotch in my next trip to Tokyo, btw, is it located in Tokyo?


 

 It is in Osaka.  If my memory still with me, sake every night does not help.  It is in Westin.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I took another pic of my Woo 6 glowing - that amp's been harder to capture the tube glow on, but I am getting closer:


 


  Use a tripod and speed priority.  Set it to 15 seconds.  (keep changing setting until you like the glow.)


----------



## dannie01

I need some lessons for photography, bought a new Panasonic LX-5 sometimes ago but can't take any pic of tube glowing like that or even closer.
   
  Great pic Skylab.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> > It is in Osaka.  If my memory still with me, sake every night does not help.  It is in Westin.


 


 Thanks, jc.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Use a tripod and speed priority.  Set it to 15 seconds.  (keep changing setting until you like the glow.)


 
   
  Yeah I have been messing with the speed priority and the like.  But I need a tripod that I can use in that location.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah I have been messing with the speed priority and the like.  But I need a tripod that I can use in that location.


 


  Try a monopod, not the best but certainly helps.  If you have a table or something to clamp on, try this.


----------



## wollabilla

Quote: 





skylab said:


> In my WA-6 maxxed with pdps but non SE, I preferred the Sylvania, but only slightly. But I liked the 6DE7 better than the 6EW7, and the 6FD7 even better (assuming your WA6SE is one of the newer ones and can use them).


 


 Thanks!
   
  Anyone else with input on Sylvania 6EW7 vs GE 6EW7 for the WA6-SE?


----------



## jc9394

Sylvania 6EW7.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sylvania 6EW7.


 

  I second.


----------



## Comfortable

I'm dying for a wood audio 3!  Does anyone here have it?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





comfortable said:


> I'm dying for a wood audio 3!  Does anyone here have it?


 

  We're dying for Woo's amp.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I took another pic of my Woo 6 glowing - that amp's been harder to capture the tube glow on, but I am getting closer:


 

 Really nice picture.


----------



## Rizlaw

ardilla said:


> *Woo Attenuator Upgrade*
> 
> 
> 
> ...







I only had my WA2 for a week before I had to ship it back to Jack for testing and possible repair (a preamp left channel output imbalance issue). My WA2 has all the mods including the DACT attenuator. Unlike some other digital attenuators I've used, the switching is soft and silent from step to step. I'm not sure what the volume change is per step since it is not stated on Woo Audio's web site. I'm guessing it's not more than 2-3 db per step at best. I have been using both Beyerdynamic DT990/600 and Audez'e LCD-2 headphones and in order to get a moderate sound level I have to set the attenuator between 12 and 2 o'clock depending on source material. Jack advised me that this is normal and source dependent. I tend to agree, but I would feel better if an average moderate sound level occurred between 10 - 12 o'clock.

Unless you are the type that needs to have an "exact" level, I think you'll find that 24 positions is adequate; of course, more would be appreciated for finer control. That's the best impression I can give you with only 1 week physical ownership.

P.S. If your willing to consider a SS amp, I believe I read that the "The Lake People", the German makers of the Violectric HPA V200 will be coming out with a headphone amp with a digital attenuator with more than 24 steps in 2011.


----------



## mikemalter

Just got my oval mica Tung-sol 6SN7G's delivered today.  Keeping my fingers crossed that the experience is better than the round mica.


----------



## dminches

My college professor once said "just because there are frogs on the ground doesn't mean it rained frogs."  Even if you hear a difference from your round mica set it doesn't mean that the mics shape is the cause of the difference.  I think you would have to audition a number of round and oval mica versions to conclude.  Either way, I hope they work out for you.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My college professor once said "just because there are frogs on the ground doesn't mean it rained frogs."  Even if you hear a difference from your round mica set it doesn't mean that the mics shape is the cause of the difference.  I think you would have to audition a number of round and oval mica versions to conclude.  Either way, I hope they work out for you.


 
   
  I get your point.  Thank you.


----------



## mikemalter

Ok, so I think the Tung-sol 6SN7G oval mica's are more toward my tastes.  I can hear the basic sonic characteristics of the TS in both, however the oval mica to my ear is not as forward in the higher frequencies as the round mica is.
   
  I'm posting this so that when people look at buying Tung-sol 6SN7G's to be aware of the sonic differences that the shape of the mica can bring.  Your mileage may vary.
   
  From my research on the internet, I found that the TS was made with round micas prior to 1942 and from 1942 on until the end of the production run, were produced with oval micas.  Also, my research also found that a few 6SN7 aficionados who seemed credible to me thought that the round mica added to the tube's microphonic properties and as a result were more holographic in soundstage or presentation and more aggressive in the higher frequencies.  I also read discussions were other equally credible people found no difference between the round and oval mica.
   
  When I got my TS with round micas I found that they were too much for me in that they seemed to accentuate higher frequencies.  I burned them in for 66 hours and while the tube did blossom I found them too forward at the top end to my tastes.  In putting in these oval micas today, I could tell right away that there was a sonic difference.
   
  So, when looking at purchasing the Tung-sol 6SN7G, be aware there can be possible sonic differences between round and oval micas.
   
  Now, if my replacement GEC 6AS7G's from Taiwan work out, I can put my bad karma tube rolling experiences behind me.


----------



## SpudHarris

I have a pair of TS BGRP 6F8G's. One has an oval and one has a round mica. I wonder if the same applies? If I'm truthful I never noticed a frequency inbalance.
   
  I gotta share this news with my Woo Mates - I have scored a set of ''Bad Boys'' at last *Woo Hoo!!!!*
   
  Matching dates 31st week of 1952. I can't wait to try them out.......


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have a pair of TS BGRP 6F8G's. One has an oval and one has a round mica. I wonder if the same applies? If I'm truthful I never noticed a frequency inbalance.
> 
> I gotta share this news with my Woo Mates - I have scored a set of ''Bad Boys'' at last *Woo Hoo!!!!*
> 
> Matching dates 31st week of 1952. I can't wait to try them out.......


 

 Spud,
   
  Nice to see you finally snagged a pair of bad boys.  Have you put them in yet?


----------



## Icenine2

It would be way fun to get together and do a blind test.  It would be totally possible with headphone rigs.  Different Woo amps.  Same amp w/different tubes.  Yes!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wollabilla said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Anyone else with input on Sylvania 6EW7 vs GE 6EW7 for the WA6-SE?


 

 It all depends on what you like. The Sylvania seems to stretch the right to left sound-stage out more than any 6EW7 that I have tried. The best balanced tube in the 6EW7 line is the RCA Chrome dome. Very quiet nice all around sound-stage and good bass.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Spud,
> 
> Nice to see you finally snagged a pair of bad boys.  Have you put them in yet?


 

 Thanks Mike, Unfortunately they have to come from France. Still, they will get here quicker than the metal base Sylvania 6SN7WGT's as they are coming from USA.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Interesting.
   
  Something I have noticed and that is most of the NOS tubes we are shooting for seem to be overseas.  All the TS and GEC tubes I have ordered have been from overseas (except for one pair of GEC 6080's).


----------



## SpudHarris

Well unfortunately for me (and other UK users) there aren't many places here in the UK that deal in tubes. One or two but not to the extent of the US but I suppose it's all relevant.
   
  We have very few places to audition Head Phones either, I read about people popping into this shop and that shop to test phones and I think man, I wish I could do that.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Well unfortunately for me (and other UK users) there aren't many places here in the UK that deal in tubes. One or two but not to the extent of the US but I suppose it's all relevant.
> 
> We have very few places to audition Head Phones either, I read about people popping into this shop and that shop to test phones and I think man, I wish I could do that.


 
   
  Spud, do you guys in the UK ever do a head-fi listening event?  It's a really great way of listening to a lot of different equipment.


----------



## mikemalter

SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!  FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Got my tube fiasco sorted out.  
   
  Received my replacement GEC 6AS7G's from Taiwan this morning.  They are used and are not NIB, but I can deal with that later.  What is so cool is that I've got a pair of TS BGRP 6SN7's and GEC 6AS7G's and with my EML, I am where I want to be.  I've got 13 hours on the TS and a few hours on the GEC's (who knows how many hours on the really) and I am really pleased with how my WA22 sounds.
   
  I'll post pictures of the GEC's as they are very old looking and seem a little different that the one's I've seen.
   
  The next two items on my agenda are to get my P600 repaired and get a PWD with a bridge and find a NAS.  Even with the extra noise generated by my computer, I could really hear how nice higher resolution digital music can sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Well unfortunately for me (and other UK users) there aren't many places here in the UK that deal in tubes. One or two but not to the extent of the US but I suppose it's all relevant.
> 
> We have very few places to audition Head Phones either, I read about people popping into this shop and that shop to test phones and I think man, I wish I could do that.


 
   
  Ironically enough my pair of bad boys came from a seller in the UK.  Tubes are very much a global economy thing it would seem.  I saw a sentiment expressed once along the lines of it being better potentially to get tubes from places other than the US.  The logic being they are more likely to be field stock or leftovers from actual military stores, where as tubes found in warehouses in the US can often be stuff that didn't get shipped out because it was B quality or failed final inspection.  The government being what it is they would just sit in warehouses for decades until discovered or destroyed.  No idea if there is any validity to the notion, but I thought i was a curious idea at the very least.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You mean like a Warehouse 13 for tubes?


----------



## SpudHarris

We've had a few meets but I'm out in the sticks really the closest one was about a two hour drive (Manchester) which would have been cool but my Father was in ITU at the time so I couldn't make it. My best buddy lives there so the next one I will definately get to.
   
  That said, I hardly need a head-fi meet to spend pretty much all my spare cash on all things audio related. Since getting my WA6, I spend most of my cash on tubes. I look at it as an investment for my future WA22 purchase, just need to score some GEC's everyone is raving about and when I take the plunge on a WA22 it will be well fed.....


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!  FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Got my tube fiasco sorted out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Check out QNAP for NAS, I use it to feed lossless to PWD.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!  FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Got my tube fiasco sorted out.
> 
> Received my replacement GEC 6AS7G's from Taiwan this morning.  They are used and are not NIB, but I can deal with that later.  What is so cool is that I've got a pair of TS BGRP 6SN7's and GEC 6AS7G's and with my EML, I am where I want to be.  I've got 13 hours on the TS and a few hours on the GEC's (who knows how many hours on the really) and I am really pleased with how my WA22 sounds.
> 
> ...


 


  Congrats!  I shipped my tubes back to Alex and he'll hopefully receive them this week.  I hope he has a replacement pair for me so I can join you in the excitement!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> We've had a few meets but I'm out in the sticks really the closest one was about a two hour drive (Manchester) which would have been cool but my Father was in ITU at the time so I couldn't make it. My best buddy lives there so the next one I will definately get to.
> 
> That said, I hardly need a head-fi meet to spend pretty much all my spare cash on all things audio related. Since getting my WA6, I spend most of my cash on tubes. I look at it as an investment for my future WA22 purchase, just need to score some GEC's everyone is raving about and when I take the plunge on a WA22 it will be well fed.....


 

 Well, Spud, a WA6 is nothing to sneeze at.  What headphone are you using?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I really hope you get a pair.  I'm finding the paring between EML, TS & GEC is really something.  PM me if Alex does not come through for you.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Check out QNAP for NAS, I use it to feed lossless to PWD.


 

 JC, you are my hero.


----------



## grokit

What's a PWD ?


----------



## jc9394

grokit said:


> What's a PWD ?







PS Audio Perfectwave DAC.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> JC, you are my hero.







Gotta help out Woo owners spend their hard earn money...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!  FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Got my tube fiasco sorted out.
> 
> Received my replacement GEC 6AS7G's from Taiwan this morning.  They are used and are not NIB, but I can deal with that later.  What is so cool is that I've got a pair of TS BGRP 6SN7's and GEC 6AS7G's and with my EML, I am where I want to be.  I've got 13 hours on the TS and a few hours on the GEC's (who knows how many hours on the really) and I am really pleased with how my WA22 sounds.
> 
> ...


 


 That's the best combo for the WA22 to my ears, congrats. Waiting for your pics.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> That's the best combo for the WA22 to my ears, congrats. Waiting for your pics.







I totally agree, that is one of the reason, I'm looking for a backup pair of both TS BGRP and GEC 6AS7G. My second flavor are EML, TS 6F8G, and GEC 6080.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I totally agree, that is one of the reason, I'm looking for a backup pair of both TS BGRP and GEC 6AS7G. My second flavor are EML, TS 6F8G, and GEC 6080.


 


 Same, I also look for a back up pair of TSRP, too. Fortunately, the WA5LE could sounds great with some new production of 5U4G and 300B, otherwise I'll be broke.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Check out QNAP for NAS, I use it to feed lossless to PWD.


 


 I use the QNap for NAS to the Linn DS, too. We both have very similar preference.


----------



## jc9394

Does EAT 300B counts as low price newer production tubes? 

Yup, I was looking at the Linn system before until I get a quote from my local dealer.


----------



## dminches

mikemalter said:


> The next two items on my agenda are to get my P600 repaired and get a PWD with a bridge and find a NAS.  Even with the extra noise generated by my computer, I could really hear how nice higher resolution digital music can sound.







I have 3 Netgear Readynas boxes that work very well.


----------



## mikemalter

JC, dannie01, what model of QNAP are you using and what hard drives do you have?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Does EAT 300B counts as low price newer production tubes?


 

 At least it's far lower than some NOS like WE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> JC, dannie01, what model of QNAP are you using and what hard drives do you have?


 

  Mike, I use the TS-210 with Hitachi 1TB HDD (forget the model no) and both work very stable. The QNap is come with the Twonky Media (free) for you to manage your collection, take a look HERE but this is the one you have to pay and it works much metter.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I see it on their product page.  And 1TB is enough for your music?  Can you add another disk and expand space? What do you do for backups?  I was thinking of getting the 4 drive unit and filling it with 2 TB drives with raid5 in case one of the disks went out.


----------



## dannie01

mikemalter said:


> I see it on their product page.  And 1TB is enough for your music?  Can you add another disk and expand space? What do you do for backups?  I was thinking of getting the 4 drive unit and filling it with 2 TB drives with raid5 in case one of the disks went out.


 


 It's temporary enough but almost full and yes, it can be expand with one more HDD. No backup now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I always worry when the hard disk get trouble, will add one very soon, especially for backup.
   
  Wow, 4 x 2TB?! How many music do you have, most in hi-res?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> mikemalter said:
> 
> 
> > I see it on their product page.  And 1TB is enough for your music?  Can you add another disk and expand space? What do you do for backups?  I was thinking of getting the 4 drive unit and filling it with 2 TB drives with raid5 in case one of the disks went out.
> ...


 

 My wife and I have almost a TB of data.  
   
  When you set up a raid5 you loose about 1/3 of the total disk space.  We also have movies and I plan on adding a lot of hi-res music.  I have been holding off buying music for a while until I could get a long term strategy in place.  I think now that PS Audio has their bridge and with their new music server software, I can start going in the music purchase direction.  
   
  Now that you mention it, an 8TB NAS is a little overkill.  Maybe I'll start with just three 1TB drives and give myself room to grow.


----------



## dannie01

OIC, I ripped maybe only 1/3 of my CDs to the NAS and it's boring in ripping music, I'll speed up to finish all. For hi-res music, I have only some albums from HD Tracks and will buying more, most of the hi-res music sounds much better than normal red book but have to pay more.
   
  BTW, as an idiot of computer and networking, I will Google what is raid5 and learn how it works with my NAS.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> OIC, I ripped maybe only 1/3 of my CDs to the NAS and it's boring in ripping music, I'll speed up to finish all. For hi-res music, I have only some albums from HD Tracks and will buying more, most of the hi-res music sounds much better than normal red book but have to pay more.
> 
> BTW, as an idiot of computer and networking, I will Google what is raid5 and learn how it works with my NAS.


 

 dannie,
   
  A raid just takes the drive and blends them together into one drive (or many virtual drives if you want - but usually one drive per raid array is best).
   
  Then depending on the raid, all of the disks work as one.  In general terms the following is what raid does.  I have left out a few that are more esoteric.
   
  Raid0 says stack all disks up into one disk.  This is very fast for reading data.  But, if one disk goes bad, the whole array goes down so there is no redundency.
  Raid1 is called the mirror raid and it takes an even number of disks and creates a mirror of each other so everytime you write it goes in two places.  Not really all that good IMO.
  Raid5 is where there is a parity stripe and that means 2/3's of the disk is your data, and 1/3 is a redundant stripe so if a drive fails, the raid keeps going and you do not loose anything.  IMO this is the best of all worlds because you don't loose anything if a drive goes bad.  Just last week I had a drive fail in a raid5 array in a project I was working on and all that happened is that the server slowed down because the raid was degraded.
   
  With the QNAP, if you have a raid5 and loose a drive, you can simply pull it out and put another one in and you don't even have to turn anything off.  The bad part of a raid5 array is that you need at least three drives, and you loose 1/3rd of your drive space.
   
  One last thing about raid, it is not a backup strategy.  I actually bought a very large tape drive from Dell computers and back up my music every night.  So, on one hand digital media is really great because it opens the door to higher res music, on the other, if you don't take steps to protect with a raid and backup nightly, it could be very hard to get every thing back.  In some ways it's a hidden cost as we all just look at what plays music and all the toys that go along with it, but rarely do we talk about protecting with raid and backing up.
   
  Anyway, that is probably more than you would ever want to hear about raid.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, Spud, a WA6 is nothing to sneeze at.  What headphone are you using?


 

 My choice at the moment is Beyer T1, very nice pairing but my 600ohm DT880's offer a more 3D image. Like many here I have too many phones and should really shed some inventory hehe...


----------



## nututubes

[size=10pt]Hello all WA22 / HD800 users. If you could apply EQ to your system, say a 9 band digital EQ, where would you boost or lower the dB settings? I have a program called _Inguz Audio EQ and room correction _(http://inguzaudio.com/) which is a plugin app used on Logitech Squeezeboxes that are using SqueezeCenter music server. It's a nice plugin, that needs a lot of processing power in the sever hardware, which I have. I won't be using the DRC room correction portion of it obviously.[/size]
  [size=10pt]The settings I can adjust are: 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz, 480 Hz, 960Hz, 1.9kHz, 3.8kHz, 7.6kHz and 15.3kHz. From what I’ve read about the HD800s few shortcomings, the phones need help in places, say bass.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]These reviews in general, aren't specific and I would welcome any suggestions from our forum members on some possible settings i.e., which frequencies I might try and how much gain to increase or decrease. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Thanks in advance![/size]
  [size=10pt]John[/size]


----------



## dminches

Regarding raid arrays, you need to have at least 2 drives to make an array. What is important in selecting a NAS is to find one that allows you to hot swap drives in case of a drive failure. What is nice about the Readynas line is that you can hot swap to expand too. I have 3 of these with a total of 12 TB of redundant data.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> JC, dannie01, what model of QNAP are you using and what hard drives do you have?


 

 I use TS410 for home data use and TS210 on music only.  All the drives I user are the same, WD 2TB.
   
   
  Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Raid0 says stack all disks up into one disk.  This is very fast for reading data.  But, if one disk goes bad, the whole array goes down so there is no redundency.
> Raid1 is called the mirror raid and it takes an even number of disks and creates a mirror of each other so everytime you write it goes in two places.  Not really all that good IMO.
> Raid5 is where there is a parity stripe and that means 2/3's of the disk is your data, and 1/3 is a redundant stripe so if a drive fails, the raid keeps going and you do not loose anything.  IMO this is the best of all worlds because you don't loose anything if a drive goes bad.  Just last week I had a drive fail in a raid5 array in a project I was working on and all that happened is that the server slowed down because the raid was degraded.
> 
> ...


 


  RAID5 is not that fast on reading when use it as media streaming, I use RAID0+1 on TS410 and RAID1 on TS210 and very happy with the performance.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> [size=10pt]Hello all WA22 / HD800 users. If you could apply EQ to your system, say a 9 band digital EQ, where would you boost or lower the dB settings? I have a program called _Inguz Audio EQ and room correction _(http://inguzaudio.com/) which is a plugin app used on Logitech Squeezeboxes that are using SqueezeCenter music server. It's a nice plugin, that needs a lot of processing power in the sever hardware, which I have. I won't be using the DRC room correction portion of it obviously.[/size]
> [size=10pt]The settings I can adjust are: 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz, 480 Hz, 960Hz, 1.9kHz, 3.8kHz, 7.6kHz and 15.3kHz. From what I’ve read about the HD800s few shortcomings, the phones need help in places, say bass.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]These reviews in general, aren't specific and I would welcome any suggestions from our forum members on some possible settings i.e., which frequencies I might try and how much gain to increase or decrease. [/size]
> ...


 

 I never like EQ, I like the music just as how it is recorded.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Regarding raid arrays, you need to have at least 2 drives to make an array. What is important in selecting a NAS is to find one that allows you to hot swap drives in case of a drive failure. What is nice about the Readynas line is that you can hot swap to expand too. I have 3 of these with a total of 12 TB of redundant data.


 


  Do you really a hot swappable hard drive at home?  I don't believe your data is that important that you can not power it off and swap a drive, at least that is how I feel on my personal data.  At work, we use NetApp and Hitachi with loads of drives in any RAID configurations that the application needs and with at least 20 plus 1TB drives as hot standby in case any failure.  My TS410 use hot swappable drives but it is not a feature I want, it just comes with it.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> dannie,
> 
> A raid just takes the drive and blends them together into one drive (or many virtual drives if you want - but usually one drive per raid array is best).
> 
> ...


 

 Mike, thank you so much for the detail explanantion about raid and have found some more information through internet, too. Checked with disk management of the QNap on-line system administration, got idea on how to mirrow / backup my data but need one more HDD to have the job completed in Raid1. Will buy one more hard disk soon and back-up my music data as advised, thanks again.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Regarding raid arrays, you need to have at least 2 drives to make an array. What is important in selecting a NAS is to find one that allows you to hot swap drives in case of a drive failure. What is nice about the Readynas line is that you can hot swap to expand too. I have 3 of these with a total of 12 TB of redundant data.


 

 But, you will only be able to do raid1 or 0 if you only have 2 drives.  Three is better, IMHO.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> [size=10pt]Hello all WA22 / HD800 users. If you could apply EQ to your system, say a 9 band digital EQ, where would you boost or lower the dB settings? I have a program called _Inguz Audio EQ and room correction _(http://inguzaudio.com/) which is a plugin app used on Logitech Squeezeboxes that are using SqueezeCenter music server. It's a nice plugin, that needs a lot of processing power in the sever hardware, which I have. I won't be using the DRC room correction portion of it obviously.[/size]
> [size=10pt]The settings I can adjust are: 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz, 480 Hz, 960Hz, 1.9kHz, 3.8kHz, 7.6kHz and 15.3kHz. From what I’ve read about the HD800s few shortcomings, the phones need help in places, say bass.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]These reviews in general, aren't specific and I would welcome any suggestions from our forum members on some possible settings i.e., which frequencies I might try and how much gain to increase or decrease. [/size]
> ...


 

 Nu, there is no reason why you should not use EQ.  I stay away from it because mostly I listen to music on random.
   
  Is there a particular effect you want to get, like a smoother top end or more on the bottom?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, raid5 is slower than raid0 or raid1 on reads and faster on writes.  My thought for favoring it is on the strength of redundancy and conservative approach to recovery to reduce risk.  However, nesting raid can bring good returns.  So using raid0 you get raw speed and nesting that on top of a raid1 will mirror and give you redundancy.  Don't you have to use a minimum of 4 drives with that?
   
  With your TS210, how many drives do you have?
   
  My perspective on raid comes from developing database systems, but maybe raid for a music server would have a different sweet spot.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes, raid5 is slower than raid0 or raid1 on reads and faster on writes.  My thought for favoring it is on the strength of redundancy and conservative approach to recovery to reduce risk.  However, nesting raid can bring good returns.  So using raid0 you get raw speed and nesting that on top of a raid1 will mirror and give you redundancy.  Don't you have to use a minimum of 4 drives with that?
> 
> With your TS210, how many drives do you have?
> 
> My perspective on raid comes from developing database systems, but maybe raid for a music server would have a different sweet spot.


 

 Yes, you will need at least 4 drives to use RAID0+1.
   
  On my TS210, I have two 2TB drives mirrored.
   
  Most databases I work on are using RAID0+1 now for performance and redundancy.


----------



## Icenine2

For those buying a new Woo Amp: Mirror Polished Cases might be available if you are interested.  Jack said he will consider the option in the future.  That doesn't mean he will do it but you might be first on the block.  I'm sure this would be an up-charge since it would be a bit of work.

   

  How this came about:  While waiting delivery for my WA22 I happened to see some ridiculously priced amp that was mirror polished and thought how cool the WA22 would look that same way.  If I had been faster on my feet I maybe could have actually had this done.  The "Woo Amp Owners Unite" thread would have coughed up a Sophia Princess if I would have posted pictures of my new Mirror Polished WA22.  Finger prints would be an issue just like the black is a dust magnet.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Nututubes-
   
  Try EasyQ for foobar.  It's a great equalizer.
   
  jc-
  I agree.  I have actually EQ'd in the past but I always revert back to no EQ.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Nututubes-
> 
> Try EasyQ for foobar.  It's a great equalizer.
> 
> ...


 

 I totally a believer if your systems is matched properly, you don't need to EQ anything.  But that is me...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> For those buying a new Woo Amp: Mirror Polished Cases might be available if you are interested.  Jack said he will consider the option in the future.  That doesn't mean he will do it but you might be first on the block.  I'm sure this would be an up-charge since it would be a bit of work.
> 
> 
> 
> How this came about:  While waiting delivery for my WA22 I happened to see some ridiculously priced amp that was mirror polished and thought how cool the WA22 would look that same way.  If I had been faster on my feet I maybe could have actually had this done.  The "Woo Amp Owners Unite" thread would have coughed up a Sophia Princess if I would have posted pictures of my new Mirror Polished WA22.  Finger prints would be an issue just like the black is a dust magnet.


 

 Hmmm.  Mirror polished.  That would be really nice.  I think it would be easier to maintain than black, that is for sure.


----------



## balderon

I wonder how the transformer "pots" would polished if at all. Perhaps the top and the side ridges would be polished and the valleys would be left in natural aluminum or black anodized. It would be interesting to see how the mix of polished and non-polished surfaces would look together.


----------



## JustinS

Hello all, i hope you are all well. I only joined this forum last week, after finding out that it is a goldmine of information. I have just sold my Naim system, including speakers, and have so far brought some HD800'S. For anyone considering a pair, you will not be dissappointed.
  My issue is what amp to purchase. I have ordered a Mac mini, and short term will want to connect it directly to the amp (whilst saving for a DAC). I have decided i would like a Woo Audio Amp and my question to you good folk, is;
  1, Is a WA 5 LE worth the extra outlay over a WA22? The headphones are not balanced, but taking into account how much it will be to buy new headphone cable, should i just spend that money and sink it into the WA 5 LE? If so what differences will i hear? I will in time add a DAC, but as i say, short term the mac Mini will be plugged straight into the amp. Is a standard WA 5 LE sound better than a balanced setup via a WA22? I would be buying this blind, hence trusting your views to steer me towards the right product.
   
  Thanks for your anticipated help.
   
  Regards
   
  Justin


----------



## HeatFan12

Hi Justin,
   
  Well imo, if you're going to drop that much coin into an amp + the coin you dropped on the phones already, you should not shortchange yourself with your source.  Source matters very much.  Without a DAC you will not be getting the full potential of your gear.
   
  Just my 2 cents


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





justins said:


> Hello all, i hope you are all well. I only joined this forum last week, after finding out that it is a goldmine of information. I have just sold my Naim system, including speakers, and have so far brought some HD800'S. For anyone considering a pair, you will not be dissappointed.
> My issue is what amp to purchase. I have ordered a Mac mini, and short term will want to connect it directly to the amp (whilst saving for a DAC). I have decided i would like a Woo Audio Amp and my question to you good folk, is;
> 1, Is a WA 5 LE worth the extra outlay over a WA22? The headphones are not balanced, but taking into account how much it will be to buy new headphone cable, should i just spend that money and sink it into the WA 5 LE? If so what differences will i hear? I will in time add a DAC, but as i say, short term the mac Mini will be plugged straight into the amp. Is a standard WA 5 LE sound better than a balanced setup via a WA22? I would be buying this blind, hence trusting your views to steer me towards the right product.


 
  I had these exact same questions after I sold a speaker rig to get into headphones.  i.e.  WA22 vs. WA5 LE.  I ultimately asked Jack himself who will be quick to answer that his WA5 (LE) is his "top of the line" dynamic amp and will out perform the WA22.  I have not heard a balanced rig WA22 so I can not testify to that myself, but I went the WA5LE route and eventually WA5 and have never regretted it.  The WA5 has a dedicated jack for the K1000 which turns out to be perfect for the new HE6 if you ever want to try a power hungry ortho.  Of course, the standard jack sounds great with the HD800 also.  Anyway, thought I would jump in since I have been down your exact same road.  
   
  The OP of this thread, dannie01 has actually owned both (he bought my WA5LE and has improved it) and he could probably give you better guidance than me.  I'm sure he will chime in.
   
  Of course, like Heatfan says, you will ultimately need a good dac also.


----------



## JustinS

Guys, thanks for your quick and helpful reply. Yeah i totally agree about your comments re the DAC, and i wish i could get it at the same time, but inbetween getting the headphones, amp and dac i need some time for saving money for the next purchase. I am happy to push myself to afford the 5 LE, but only if i am going to end up with a better sounding system. Has anyone listened to both? Does one suit the HD800's better than the other?
   
  Thanks for your help. I just need to make the right decision, and you are my ears, as i can't demo before purchase.
   
  Thanks
   
  Justin


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  For a little while I was hearing some harshness in my current setup (EML 5U4G mesh, black glass KenRad VT-231, GEC 6080) and had to EQ.  Something seemed to have changed, and I removed the EQ and couldn't be happier.


----------



## Icenine2

Justin,
   
  I as well went through all the decision making with your same question.  I ended up buying the WA22 (still waiting but it is supposed to be here this week).  If money weren't an issue I would have bought the WA5LE (maybe even the 5 so I could get some cool high-efficiency horns down the road).  I had the cash for the amp but then would have had to wait too long for a new DAC.  Plus the killer for me was the tube cost if you move uptown.  EML's, Shuguang's etc are huge expensive for matched 300B's.  Skylab shared this wisdom with me.  I am glad I took it because I would have been playing catch-up.  Then there's the upgrade question too.  The WA22 is an excellent amp plus I've had a balanced system for 15 years already.  The last issue was the WIFE FACTOR.  Probably surmountable but the two piece setup with tubes............who knows.
   
  However if money isn't an issue I would buy the WA5LE in a shot with upgrades, with the tube EML upgrade.  Then I'd buy the Wyred4Sound DAC2 to go with it.  Better yet a whole DCS rig.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Justin,
> 
> I as well went through all the decision making with your same question.  I ended up buying the WA22 (still waiting but it is supposed to be here this week).  If money weren't an issue I would have bought the WA5LE (maybe even the 5 so I could get some cool high-efficiency horns down the road).  I had the cash for the amp but then would have had to wait too long for a new DAC.  *Plus the killer for me was the tube cost if you move uptown*.  EML's, Shuguang's etc are huge expensive for matched 300B's.  Skylab shared this wisdom with me.  I am glad I took it because I would have been playing catch-up.  Then there's the upgrade question too.  The WA22 is an excellent amp plus I've had a balanced system for 15 years already.  The last issue was the WIFE FACTOR.  Probably surmountable but the two piece setup with tubes............who knows.
> 
> However if money isn't an issue I would buy the WA5LE in a shot with upgrades, with the tube EML upgrade.  Then I'd buy the Wyred4Sound DAC2 to go with it.  Better yet a whole DCS rig.


 
  Absolutely, the tube costs for WA5LE is a factor to consider....  wise words.  Once you get set though, they will last a LONG time.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the club, Justin. As davo50 mentioned, I upgraded my gear from a WA22 ( sold to jc9394) and bought the WA5LE from davo50. My definite asnwer is, yes, the WA5LE totally outperform my crazily modded WA22 with some good tubes (the tube combo in my WA5LE is EAT 300B, EML 5U4G mesh and Tung Sol BGRP). In the case, jc9394 is another great guy to let me compare the two before I send him the WA22. I have both amps in my home for about a week so I can have them compare thoroughly. Even the WA5LE is SE but I don't see any disadvantage to drive the HD800. It totally drive the HD800 greater than WA22. I'm one of the happy owners of the WA5LE, you will never regret.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Welcome to the club, Justin. As davo50 mentioned, I upgraded my gear from a WA22 ( sold to jc9394) and bought the WA5LE from davo50. My definite asnwer is, yes, the WA5LE totally outperform my crazily modded WA22 with some good tubes (the tube combo in my WA5LE is EAT 300B, EML 5U4G mesh and Tung Sol BGRP). In the case, jc9394 is another great guy to let me compare the two before I send him the WA22. I have both amps in my home for about a week so I can have them compare thoroughly. Even the WA5LE is SE but I don't see any disadvantage to drive the HD800. It totally drive the HD800 greater than WA22. I'm one of the happy owners of the WA5LE, you will never regret.







I agree with the Danny that WA5LE is better than WA22, even a stock WA5 with right tubes beats WA22 modded with my current tubes (probably the best I can get). Actually I'm thinking to get WA5 in the future since space is no longer an issue for me after I move next May.

EDIT - equipment matching is very important with either WA22 or WA5LE. Don't skim on DAC as the Woo will certainly playback all the faults, get the most transparent, detail, and musical DAC you can find. I have tried few very popular DAC and finally stay with PWD.


----------



## flaming_june

Space is a huge issue for people like me without a dedicated listening room.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I agree with the Danny that WA5LE is better than WA22, even a stock WA5 with right tubes beats WA22 modded with my current tubes (probably the best I can get). Actually I'm thinking to get WA5 in the future since space is no longer an issue for me after I move next May.


 
  This conversation about the WA22 and WA5LE is very interesting.  So, really, a stock 5 with stock tubes is better than a WA22 with high end tubes?  That good?  Can you say how it is better?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is not true.  You can use raid5 on a Readynas box with 2 drives.  You only end up with the space of 1 drive but you have complete redundancy.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> This conversation about the WA22 and WA5LE is very interesting.  So, really, a stock 5 with stock tubes is better than a WA22 with high end tubes?  That good?  Can you say how it is better?
> 
> Thanks.







WA5LE with stock tubes loose by a nose with my Dannie01 modded WA22 with GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP, and EML 5U4G. Once you roll in the premium new production or NOS on WA5LE, there is mo comparison, th WA5LE wins hand down. One thing to notice is th 300B have different sound signature, either you like it or you hate it, most do like it.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> That is not true.  You can use raid5 on a Readynas box with 2 drives.  You only end up with the space of 1 drive but you have complete redundancy.







There is no way you can configure a RAID5 with 2 drives, it requires at least 3 drives. More drives will improve performance, 10+ drives RAID5 will kick 3 drives RAID5 ass left and right.

The one you describes is RAID1(mirror set).


----------



## sillysally

Yes I also asked Jack about the WA22 and the WA5LE and without any question he said WA5LE is the much better amp.
   
  I  have the very tricked out WA5LE and yes the cost of the tubes can be very expensive. However the WA5LE is a very well balanced amp and very powerful. Matter of fact I kept thinking that all the power the WA5LE has was kind of a waist using my HD-800s (cost $1400 + balanced cable) as far as all the power of the WA5LE goes, that was until I got the new Hifiman HE6 planar headphone. The HE6's (cost $1000) need a very powerful head amp to power them, the WA5/LE is one of the only head amps that can power them. There is very little question that the HE6s/WA5/LE are as good as it gets combining the quality's of the high end Electrostatic Headphone amps and high end STAX headphones with the dynamics of the headphones like the HD-800s.
  Also don't forget the WA5/LE is a true 300B amp.
   
  Now you also get into a DAC and they can be very expensive especially if you go balanced (cost $1000). Most of the balanced very nice DAC's will also include headphone amps this of-course drives up the price of a DAC and is something you don't really need with a good amp like a Woo. What you need is a very well thought out DAC (cost $640) without all the bells and whistles when you have a amp like the WA5/LE.
   
  So my point is yes you may spend more on tubes for the WA5 then you would on a WA22 but you will spending less on changing over your setup for balanced amp and in the end have a better sounding system with more options.
   
  Update.
  There is one other plus with the WA5/LE, and that is that the WA5/LE has unlimited band width as per Jack.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I also asked Jack about the WA22 and the WA5LE and without any question he said WA5LE is the much better amp.
> 
> I  have the very tricked out WA5LE and yes the cost of the tubes can be very expensive. However the WA5LE is a very well balanced amp and very powerful. Matter of fact I kept thinking that all the power the WA5LE has was kind of a waist using my HD-800s (cost $1400 + balanced cable) as far as all the power of the WA5LE goes, that was until I got the new Hifiman HE6 planar headphone. The HE6's (cost $1000) need a very powerful head amp to power them, the WA5/LE is one of the only head amps that can power them. There is very little question that the HE6s/WA5/LE are as good as it gets combining the quality's of the high end Electrostatic Headphone amps and high end STAX headphones with the dynamics of the headphones like the HD-800s.
> Also don't forget the WA5/LE is a true 300B amp.
> ...


 

 Nice to hear you love your WA5LE so much.  I've never heard one and from descriptions like yours I want to hear it even more.


----------



## grokit

Aargh, I don't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm sure it (WA5-LE) sounds right nice. But if I want to dilly-dally around, I'll do that in the bath tub. sillysally's description makes me wanna just buy the (---edit---) thang! After all, my WA6SE was a blind purchase that I'm glad I made. Goin' to work very hard in 2011 to leap past the WA22 and go straight to the WA5-LE.


----------



## vinyllp33

Good thinking, go straight to the top because this is where you will invariably end up.

I was also faced with the exact same dilemma as I had a WA6SE and was taking the next step. All of the observations that have been brought to light I agree with entirely.

Tube costs for the WA5 can certainly be more expensive but not really much higher than the WA22 if you figure they both need a nice set of 6SN7 so it is just one additional rectifier. 

For the going rate of a pair GEC 6AS7 you can get a good pair of 300B, not NOS Western Electric mind you but still better than stock. That is another great aspect of this amp in that while it responds to higher end tubes they aren't mandatory for great sound. But if you do decide to upgrade it will just continue to get better and better.

And silllysally's impressions of the WA5/HE6 combo are right on the mark, it really doesn't get much better than this and I have owned various Stax set-ups over the years. I don't think the WA22 would have enough grunt to really take charge of the HE6.

In the end no matter which Woo amp you choose you will be dealing with one of high-end audio's top companies as Jack is a real class act as are the many owner's on this forum.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Good thinking, go straight to the top because this is where you will invariably end up.
> 
> I was also faced with the exact same dilemma as I had a WA6SE and was taking the next step. All of the observations that have been brought to light I agree with entirely.
> 
> ...


 

 It was autumn 2009 when I began saving for the WA6. By March 2010 I finally had enough for the purchase. Had my information and payment set to go on the website and got cold feet just prior to hitting 'Send.' Despite not having the cash, I knew I would've regretted not getting the WA6SE. Sold a few things that I wasn't using anymore and made peace getting the 6SE. Like you mentioned above, I knew I'd be going up the 'Woo chain,' so....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> For those buying a new Woo Amp: Mirror Polished Cases might be available if you are interested.  Jack said he will consider the option in the future.  That doesn't mean he will do it but you might be first on the block.  I'm sure this would be an up-charge since it would be a bit of work.
> 
> 
> 
> How this came about:  While waiting delivery for my WA22 I happened to see some ridiculously priced amp that was mirror polished and thought how cool the WA22 would look that same way.  If I had been faster on my feet I maybe could have actually had this done.  The "Woo Amp Owners Unite" thread would have coughed up a Sophia Princess if I would have posted pictures of my new Mirror Polished WA22.  Finger prints would be an issue just like the black is a dust magnet.


 

 Fingerprints? Dust?? The bigger the headache, the bigger the pill... or in this case, Maintenance! For those of us with Woo amps in black, wiling to spend a lil' more time cleaning, the payoff is immediate. I do think silver Woo amps look nice. The silver has the power to stir your emotions. But the black has the power to move those emotions entirely to another state. However, if I ordered a black WA5-LE today and Jack posed shipping the silver in two weeks or the black in six weeks, I'd be right at home with the silver.
   
  If you decide to go 'Mirror' on us make sure you post - could be quite interesting...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One thing I can say is your WA6SE is a wonderful amp. With the right tubes and headphones it is something to be very proud of.
  My WA5LE just had one or both of its EML 5U4G's go out and I can only find one of a pair of back-up 5U4G's I have, but its all good. I just got my WA6SE and HD-800's out of storage and that is what I will be using until I can get a new matched pair of EML 5U4G's. Can't use my HE6's but still can use my SVS Realiser.
  Under the circumstances I am very happy I didn't sell my WA6SE, because the WA5LE is a very hard act to follow. The WA6SE is what is keeping me from having a Woo withdrawal.


----------



## dariusf

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Do you really a hot swappable hard drive at home?  I don't believe your data is that important that you can not power it off and swap a drive, at least that is how I feel on my personal data.  At work, we use NetApp and Hitachi with loads of drives in any RAID configurations that the application needs and with at least 20 plus 1TB drives as hot standby in case any failure.  My TS410 use hot swappable drives but it is not a feature I want, it just comes with it.


 

 Hot swap is only needed when you can't afford to take the server offline while replacing the failed drive. Do not see the point for home use unless you absolutely have to listen to your stored music 24/7 and can't allow to stop listening for the short time it takes to power down, switch the drive and power back on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I have hot swap RAID5 in all my servers but at home? As a rule I run at least RAID1 mirror in my workstation and RAID5 + extra RAID1 for the house media server. Make sure you also get drives that support
 TLER (Time-Limited Error Recovery) as many drives do not or have that disabled in the factory and you can't always turn it back on. Its critical to run a stable RAID. Personally besides all SCSI drives on my production servers, I like to run Western Digital RAID version drives. If only for the 5 year warranty besides the higher MTBF rating. In the recent years the quality of the drives sold for home use has got down the drain to practically junk that is dead on arrival or fails way too often. Part of that could be due to people not packing them right for shipping. I also always ship drives FedEx.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> There is no way you can configure a RAID5 with 2 drives, it requires at least 3 drives. More drives will improve performance, 10+ drives RAID5 will kick 3 drives RAID5 ass left and right.The one you describes is RAID1(mirror set).


 

 Sorry.  I keep typing raid5 when I mean raid-x which is Netgear's proprietary redundancy software.  I don't know what QNAP can do but Netgear's hot swappable system is very nice when you have a disc failure or you want to expand the size of the array, by either adding a drive or replacing the drives with larger ones.


----------



## Brittonal

These amps look like good quality equipment.


----------



## sillysally

Happy ending to my blown EML 5U4G.
   
  George (to the rescue) from Tubes USA has a pair and is shipping today via priority mail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Talked (E-Mail) to Jack but he is out of the EML 5U4G's, said next month he could ship.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





brittonal said:


> These amps look like good quality equipment.


 

 Yes they are, my WA5LE is 75 pounds and the wooden crates they come in are 25 pounds.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Happy ending to my blown EML 5U4G.
> 
> George (to the rescue) from Tubes USA has a pair and is shipping today via priority mail.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice score.  I have an EML 274B as backup but sometimes I use it instead of 5U4G.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 And very well built like a tank.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Happy ending to my blown EML 5U4G.
> 
> George (to the rescue) from Tubes USA has a pair and is shipping today via priority mail.
> 
> ...


 


 Congrats, ss.
   


       Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Nice score.  I have an EML 274B as backup but sometimes I use it instead of 5U4G.


 


 John, can you say more how's the differs of the EML 5U4G ans 274B?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Happy ending to my blown EML 5U4G.
> 
> George (to the rescue) from Tubes USA has a pair and is shipping today via priority mail.
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to hear your tube problems are taken care of.  I still have the stock tubes Jack sent as a backup, just in case.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jc9394 said:
> ...


 

 The 274B is more romantic sounding and match very well with female vocal that have deep voice while the 5U4G is more dynamic and does well with everything.  I tend to use the 274B with D7000 listening to Diana Krall or Ella Fitzgerald.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The 274B is more romantic sounding and match very well with female vocal that have deep voice while the 5U4G is more dynamic and does well with everything.  I tend to use the 274B with D7000 listening to Diana Krall or Ella Fitzgerald.


 

 Thanks and I found both Diana Krall & Patricia Barber sings very well with 5U4G.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks and I found both Diana Krall & Patrivia Barber sings very well with 5U4G.


 
   
  Yes, they do sound very well with 5U4G.  But with a glass of 18 years and 274B, Diana sound very sexy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now imaging her very attractive look and sexy voice...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, they do sound very well with 5U4G.  But with a glass of 18 years and 274B, Diana sound very sexy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 She's so sexy not only her voice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.........................even without any alcohol.................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, I still remember seeing her live in Montreal.  One of few concerts I will never forget.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was using my EML 274B Solid Plate in my WA6SE last night and then tube rolled my two EML 5U4G mesh in the WA6SE to find out if I had one or two bad tubes. Well the first one I tried was bad but the second one was ok, so I left the good EML 5U4G in to compare with the EML 274B Solid Plate. In my WA6SE the solid plate was the clear winner. Its a stronger tube, better dynamics, more air, and a little better bass and sound stage. However the ok EML 5U4G mesh may have gotten weak because of its twin in my WA5LE that went bad or just from a bad batch.
   
  Thanks guys for your support and offer. We are a close nit bunch.


----------



## JustinS

Hi, a huge thanks to all of your responses. It is very comforting that so many Woo Audio owners have good things to say about their amps. Ok, i am leaning towards the 5 LE, but i can only go for standard valves to begin with, and poss othe only upgrade i would have is ceramic valve holders. Will the standard valves sound ok, and how long is a valve expected to last, before needing to be replaced? I couldn't justify buying new valves while the standard ones were working, but when these broke, then i would upgrade with better ones.
   
  Sorry for all the questions, but i rely on your feedback, to point me in the right direction.
   
  Thanks again
   
  Justin


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





justins said:


> Hi, a huge thanks to all of your responses. It is very comforting that so many Woo Audio owners have good things to say about their amps. Ok, i am leaning towards the 5 LE, but i can only go for standard valves to begin with, and poss othe only upgrade i would have is ceramic valve holders. Will the standard valves sound ok, and how long is a valve expected to last, before needing to be replaced? I couldn't justify buying new valves while the standard ones were working, but when these broke, then i would upgrade with better ones.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, but i rely on your feedback, to point me in the right direction.
> 
> ...


 
  I was very happy with the stock tubes for a while (didn't know the difference).  When you do upgrade your tubes, it's a pretty significant improvement, but you will enjoy the stock tubes.  If you wait for each of them to burn out before you upgrade, you will be waiting a very long time in most cases.  New tubes can last 5 - 10K hours from what I understand.  Also, I ordered the stock amp without any upgrades...  sounds awesome to me!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If I had it to do over again, it would be silver.  However, I am glad I have a WA22.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yeah, I still remember seeing her live in Montreal.  One of few concerts I will never forget.


 


  I saw Diana Krall in the 90's at the Top of the Senator bar in downtown Toronto - what an amazing show that was.  Like you, I will never forget it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I saw Diana Krall in the 90's at the Top of the Senator bar in downtown Toronto - what an amazing show that was.  Like you, I will never forget it.


 


  She is great performer, still remember clearly.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't have a single Diana Krall album.  Should I get one?


----------



## Skylab

Definitely! Do you have an SACD player? The SACD remasters of several of her records are killer sounding. I like "Love Scenes" a lot, and suggest to start there, or with "All For You".


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Definitely! Do you have an SACD player? The SACD remasters of several of her records are killer sounding. I like "Love Scenes" a lot, and suggest to start there, or with "All For You".


 

 Ok, I'll have to check this out.  I do have an SACD player, but have not used it in so long it's pathetic.  I'll take a look at what they have over at HD Tracks.  Thanks.


----------



## dminches

Is All For You available on SACD?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is All For You available on SACD?


 

 I looked it up and apparently it is available on XRCD but not SACD.


----------



## Skylab

Right - Love Scenes and several of her releases after that are on SACD, though. But "All For You" is maybe the best musically, IMO.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right - Love Scenes and several of her releases after that are on SACD, though. But "All For You" is maybe the best musically, IMO.


 

 Until this point, I avoided her music and was not much interested in finding out about her because she sexed-up her image.  I figured that if they have to play that card to market her music, maybe it was not that good, so I just passed.  But, if you guys think she is good, I'll try her.


----------



## dminches

She married Elvis Costello.  How bad could she be?


----------



## Clayton SF

The Look of Love CD is my only Diana Krall so it is my favorite. What should my next DK CD be?


----------



## Skylab

She's a very talented jazz pianist in addition to being a good singer. She's not as talented as someone like Patricia Barber, IMO, but she's very good nonetheless.

I'd go for All For You next if you have Look of Love already.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad George has your back. Worked with him a couple of times and he comes off as genuinely interested in helping out even when no sale is involved. The attitude of an enthusiast, if you would. @ both you and jc9394 - I listen to a wide variety of music/genres from around the world. But most often Jazz; Blues; Zydeco; Soul/R&B; Popular music out of Africa/China/HK/Taiwan and Brazilian Jazz/Samba & Latin.
   
  Which EML glass should I want to have? 274B Mesh or solid plate? 5U4G Mesh or solid plate?


----------



## Xcalibur255

If you are buying new the option is no longer there since the solid plate EMLs are OOP now.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> She married Elvis Costello.  How bad could she be?


 


 Heeeyyyyy Abbott!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  For the EML 274B solid plate but those are a nos tube now and very hard to find. I did get the nos EML 274B solid plate from George.
  So in the current EML line up, the only way to go is the 5U4G mesh. The EML 274B mesh is to bass heavy and slow but it does have a large sound-stage.
   
  Don't take my comment to seriously about difference between the EML 274B solid plate and the EML 5U4G mesh.
  The more I think about it the more I think my EML 5U4G's had become very weak. When I first got these EML 5U4G's from Jack I compared one of them in my WA6SE to the EML 274B solid plate, and yes there where differences but they where only very slight.
   
  I have asked Jack about the EML 5U4G's and the problem I had with one going out but both of my Woo amps power/drive tubes still light up along with the front panel lights on the Woo's. My question to Jack is, will this condition harm the other tubes and or the amp.
  The reason for my question is because to one degree or other the Rectifier tube/s do control the voltage.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the follow-up. I had an EML 5U4G reserved but the month of November found me restless. So, I chose to upgrade my interconnects, digital cable, power cord and connectors. Because I would have done so anyway after the EML purchase, simply reversed the order of my actions. Now awaiting more cash for that EML purchase. And quite happy with the former upgrades.


----------



## wind016

Hey, do any of you guys use tube dampeners on your Woos? I don't hear any microphonics at all on my 6SE, but yet I still see people use them. Id like to know why...


----------



## balderon

I have not had a reason too.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> She's a very talented jazz pianist in addition to being a good singer. She's not as talented as someone like Patricia Barber, IMO, but she's very good nonetheless.
> 
> I'd go for All For You next if you have Look of Love already.


 


  I have the albums of them below. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Diana Krall
  1. All For You
  2/ Christmas Songs
  3/ The Girl In The Other Room
  4/ Love Scenes
  5/ Quiet Nights
  6/ From ThisMoment On
  7/ Live In Paris
  8/ The Look of Love
  9/ When I Look In Your Eyes
   
  Patricia Barber
  1/ The Cole Porter Mix
  2/ Modern Cool
  3/ Cafe Blue
  4/ Mythologies
  5/ A Fornight In France
  6/ Companion
  7/ Night Club
  8/ Verse
  9/ Distortion Of Love
  10/ Split


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Hey, do any of you guys use tube dampeners on your Woos? I don't hear any microphonics at all on my 6SE, but yet I still see people use them. Id like to know why...


 

 I'm not driving speakers, so it did not seem necessary.  Also, when I tap on the chassie, I don't hear anything either.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sky,
   
  I have Patricia Barber's Companion and I thought she had a really nice voice, but to me, she seems to have a bitter vibe, and I never really got into the vibe of her music.  What do you think, are the other albums, or is Companion typical for her?


----------



## dminches

No love for Rickie Lee Jones here?  Her first album and Pirates and truly great albums.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sky,
> 
> I have Patricia Barber's Companion and I thought she had a really nice voice, but to me, she seems to have a bitter vibe, and I never really got into the vibe of her music.  What do you think, are the other albums, or is Companion typical for her?


 

 If you want some lighter Patricia Barber, try "Nightclub".  It's standards.  Great stuff.  The Cole Porter Mix, same.  Some of her own compositions are kind of dark, but I dig those too.


----------



## Icenine2

I got to see Pat Barber at the Stereophile show in Chicago around 2001.  Really great show.  What a band!


----------



## Icenine2

Just got the email from Jack.  The WA22 is on it's way.  FedEx bill says 68 lbs!  That has to be the weight/dimensional billing.  That or he sent me a 5LE by mistake!


----------



## jc9394

Nice, he may sent you a WA5 instead.


----------



## wind016

Hey guys,
   
  I'm using my Woo 6se with low impedance Audio Technica cans. I usually get a low volume hum. I currently using 6CY7 power/drive tubes. Do you think switching to 6EW7 tubes will lower the hum?
   
  Also, are there any recommendations you guys can give me to make my amp sound more smooth and tubey? Audio Technica's are a bit bright in the lower treble region. Any drive/power tubes or rectifiers I should look at?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Groundzero

Get a 5u4g instead of the Sophia, it will add some warmth. Changing to 6EW7 or 6DE7 should help with the hum since they have a lower amplification factor.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Ok, good recommendation, I'll try it.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Just got the email from Jack.  The WA22 is on it's way.  FedEx bill says 68 lbs!  That has to be the weight/dimensional billing.  That or he sent me a 5LE by mistake!


 

 Maybe its a WA5LE!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dminches said:


> No love for Rickie Lee Jones here?  Her first album and Pirates and truly great albums.


 

 I really like her early stuff as well, but It's Like This is my favorite and only ten years old. I have been disappointed with the other newer stuff of hers that I have heard though, I think she needs to get her "edge" back if it's possible.


----------



## sillysally

Shipping weight of a WA5/LE is 100 lbs. Sorry.


----------



## flaming_june

How in the world is the wa22 that heavy.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Shipping weight of a WA5/LE is 100 lbs. Sorry.


 


 He should get his money back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   


  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> How in the world is the wa22 that heavy.


 

 Got to be a mistake.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Currently, sitting inside my listening room... _with no music!_ Awaiting parts/components to system. Since I don't need a hat indoors, time to toss it in the ring. The mistake is either a data entry error or wrong unit shipped. If it's the latter, additional packaging & shipping weight suggests a WES. Time for a hot cup of premium Egg Nog while I sit back and watch other hats fly about the ring.


----------



## che15

I have a pair of RCA Grey glass 6SN7 with about 30 hours on them and a Sophia princess with about 20 hours on it. I would like to sell them for a bargain price, i just do not have any use for them anymore. Please PM me if interested.
  Thanks


----------



## wind016

Thanks! What are some 5u4gs that are good? I see some on Ebay and it's like $20. Then are some that are like $5 or $100...
  
  Quote: 





groundzero said:


> Get a 5u4g instead of the Sophia, it will add some warmth. Changing to 6EW7 or 6DE7 should help with the hum since they have a lower amplification factor.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Thanks! What are some 5u4gs that are good? I see some on Ebay and it's like $20. Then are some that are like $5 or $100...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 I think these guys are talking about a EML 5U4G mesh ($230 ++), if that's to much then talk to 'che 15', the Princess he has was new when I sold it to him and he still may have a nice pair of nos RCA 6EW7 Chrome domes that I gave to him.
  I run a pair of nos RCA 6EW7's chrome dome and a nos EML 274B Solid plate in my WA6SE, however I have tried the EML 5U4G mesh plate in my WA6SE and like it very much. I use a pair of EML 5U4G mesh plates in my WA5LE.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Thanks! What are some 5u4gs that are good? I see some on Ebay and it's like $20. Then are some that are like $5 or $100...


 


  Tung-Sol, CBS/Hytron, and Sylvania 5U4G's are very good.  I find the RCA and GE also good but a little below the TS, CBS, and Syl.  The Mullard 5U4G is also excellent but tends to be very expensive.


----------



## dminches

Are you distinguishing the 5U4Gs from the 5AR4s in describing them?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Are you distinguishing the 5U4Gs from the 5AR4s in describing them?


 


  Oh yes.  5AR4's are a different kettle of fish.  Those comments were entirely related to actual 5U4G's.


----------



## wind016

WOW! Thank you!
   
  Tube rolling is like a whole new world to me, haha. Reading up on tube reviews is sparking that interest I had in me when I just started researching on audiophile headphones. I must say it's really fun =)  So far I'm looking into the EML 274B, EML 5U4G, Mullard/Sylvania/Tung-sol/CBS 5U4G tubes. This is almost as addicting as reading about headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm starting to like my WA 6SE more than b/4


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Have you ever heard the Ken-Rad JAN 5U4G? I saw one that is a "Ken-Rad JAN CKR VT-244 5U4G", I was just just wondering how it compares. I also saw a Raytheon 5U4G for $150, is that supposed to be a really good one as well?


----------



## Skylab

Never heard the Ken Rad. I do have a Raytheon 5U4G, and it's also very nice, on par with the Sylvania, which is just edged out by the TungSol, IMO.


----------



## grokit

^ Thanks for the quick reply, it is very helpful as usual


----------



## spagetka

Is there something wrong with 5AR4?
   
  Quote:


skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Thanks! What are some 5u4gs that are good? I see some on Ebay and it's like $20. Then are some that are like $5 or $100...


 


  I think the Tung Sol's sweet sounding midrange would work well for your situation.  They can be found cheap too if you are not picky about NOS.


----------



## wind016

I'm interested in this question as well.
  
  Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Is there something wrong with 5AR4?


 


   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think the Tung Sol's sweet sounding midrange would work well for your situation.  They can be found cheap too if you are not picky about NOS.


 

 I don't think I can be very picky as I don't know what to expect =) I only have experience the WA 6SE stock tube and the Sophia, but I'd like to read up on opinions to be prepared.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Is there something wrong with 5AR4?


 
   
  Yes, there is something "wrong" with it.  Good sounding NOS 5AR4's are $150-200; good sounding 5U4G's are $20-50.  I actually think the 5U4G sounds a little better overall than the 5AR4 in my Woo WA6.  So the 5U4G is the "winner", IMO - better and cheaper


----------



## Icenine2

Maybe the shipping weight for my WA22 is 68 lbs because it is the new version with outboard power!  Just kidding here.


----------



## spagetka

Thank you for your reply Skylab. Hope, that 5AR4/GZ34 Mullard labeled Hammond f32 will sound good on my WA5...
   
   
  Quote:


skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## El_Doug

Unfortunately for you, the WES ships in two boxes, each 40 pounds   Woulda been an awesome mistake though, hehe
   
  That is, unless, you bought the first WES produced, in which case you got a single monstrous 80 pound box   (that would be me)
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently, sitting inside my listening room... _with no music!_ Awaiting parts/components to system. Since I don't need a hat indoors, time to toss it in the ring. The mistake is either a data entry error or wrong unit shipped. If it's the latter, additional packaging & shipping weight suggests a WES. Time for a hot cup of premium Egg Nog while I sit back and watch other hats fly about the ring.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Thank you for your reply Skylab. Hope, that 5AR4/GZ34 Mullard labeled Hammond f32 will sound good on my WA5...


 


  I am pretty sure it will!  That's a nice sounding tube.  Typically not a cheap tube, though!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Maybe the shipping weight for my WA22 is 68 lbs because it is the new version with outboard power!  Just kidding here.


 


 Pictures!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





el_doug said:


> Unfortunately for you, the WES ships in two boxes, each 40 pounds   Woulda been an awesome mistake though, hehe
> 
> That is, unless, you bought the first WES produced, in which case you got a single monstrous 80 pound box   (that would be me)
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the facts. It is sometimes fun to speculate. When I'm finally able to afford my WA5LE, I'm requesting real-time analysis from FedEx! The weight of the package, weight of the vehicle, outside temperature & humidity ect. Gonna watch that thang in transit like a $2 floor broker on Wall St !!!


----------



## Silent One

To all the Woozies out there, with your fantastic gear, and most wonderful families (yes, they're important too!), "Happy Holidays!"
   
  Warmly,
   
  Silent One


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To all the Woozies out there, with your fantastic gear, and most wonderful families (yes, they're important too!), "Happy Holidays!"
> 
> Warmly,
> 
> Silent One


 

 Yes, well said.  Happy Holidays to you and all my other Woosie brothers and sisters too.


----------



## mikemalter

Just wanted to post an update on my Tung-sol 6SN7GT experiences.  The issue for me arose when I got two pairs of the TS and they had round micas vs the more common oval mica.  Even after 60 hours of breakin I could not listen to them as to me they sounded very harsh.  At the time I had a pair of Tung-Sol 6AS7G power tubes (one TS one Chatham) interchanged with a pair of GEC 6080's.
   
  In the TS 6SN7, the round mica makes direct contact with the glass through many fingers that extend from it, while the oval mica never touches the glass and is supported by what looks like a thin piece of metal.  I had read reports that the tube was microphonic, agressive in the higher frequencies and required higher volume to hear a "full sound."  While the TS 6AS7G and GEC 6080 was in there, my experience echoed what I had read.
   
  I got a pair of oval-mica TS 6AS7G's, however when I put them into my WA22, I was breaking in a pair of GEC 6AS7G's.  Immediately, the issues that were present with the round mica's were absent and the TS fit in nicely.  Fast forward now that the GEC 6AS7G's are broken in, I thought I'd try a pair of the round mica TS as I had not gotten around to putting them up on eBay yet.
   
  The experience is a little different now in that I don't need to turn the amp up to get a full sound from the TS.  I do notice a bit of microphonic's in them, and I can hear more on the top end, but, and this is a big but, the sizzle at the top end is now an attractive component of the sound and is more along the lines of more audio information instead of hash, and the microphonic properties addes to the presentation/soundstage.  They make quite an impact on the listening properties of the amp.
   
  I guess, in my amp getting that pair of  GEC 6AS7G's in there made all of the difference.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Happy holidays!
   
  On a sad note, I am without GEC 6AS7Gs.  Alex refunded my money and sent a message saying he could not find a good replacement pair.  Maybe I'll have better luck next year...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 He is a strange one.  He told me he had 12 pair and that he sells a lot to China.  Oh well.  PM me.


----------



## flaming_june

Here's a question, why doesn't Jack sell Sennhieser or other headphones?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Here's a question, why doesn't Jack sell Sennhieser or other headphones?


 


 I think he does sell Sennheiser.  I have heard of people buying HD800's from him.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





el_doug said:


> Unfortunately for you, the WES ships in two boxes, each 40 pounds   Woulda been an awesome mistake though, hehe
> 
> That is, unless, you bought the first WES produced, in which case you got a single monstrous 80 pound box   (that would be me)
> 
> ...


 

 But if you bought the first WES ever built then it came in two cardboard boxes that weren't too heavy at all...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I got my HD800s from Jack.


----------



## Icenine2

The Eagle has landed.  WA22 is here w/new T-1's as well.  As luck would have it I must take my son to a winter party right now.  I will try not to speed on my way home!
   
  BTW-The shipping weight is dimensional for the 68 lbs and includes the T-1's.  No surprise PSU or anything of the like!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> The Eagle has landed.  WA22 is here w/new T-1's as well.  As luck would have it I must take my son to a winter party right now.  I will try not to speed on my way home!
> 
> BTW-The shipping weight is dimensional for the 68 lbs and includes the T-1's.  No surprise PSU or anything of the like!


 

 Good Dad.  Have fun at the party.
   
  What tubes are you running on your WA22?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> The Eagle has landed.  WA22 is here w/new T-1's as well.  As luck would have it I must take my son to a winter party right now.  I will try not to speed on my way home!
> 
> BTW-The shipping weight is dimensional for the 68 lbs and includes the T-1's.  No surprise PSU or anything of the like!


 

 WA22 with T-1's? _What a fantastic finish to a decade... cheers!_


----------



## Icenine2

I stuck the stock tubes in to make sure it works.  Oh yeah baby it does!  I've got Steely Dan 24/96 running and it sounds good so after break-in and put in the EML and Teasures.....................


----------



## Icenine2

I'm playing the Beatles USB in high-res.  Incredible.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Play some Pink Floyd!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I stuck the stock tubes in to make sure it works.  Oh yeah baby it does!  I've got Steely Dan 24/96 running and it sounds good so after break-in and put in the EML and Teasures.....................


 


 That Steely Dan Gaucho @ 24/96 is an awesome recording. Clean, noise free, just a delight. Great recording. Who says HD800s lack bass?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Play some Pink Floyd!


 


 Anyone know if there is a 24/96 Pink Floyd DSOTH? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Seriously though, what is a good Red Book 44.1 recording that is still available? Lable etc.?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Get the SACD.  It sounds fantastic. 
   
  There is a nasty rumor going around that "Gaucho" was originally mastered digitally at 20 bits and 50 kHz (it was an early digital recording), and so while the 96/24 tracks sound good, since the recording is a good one, they really are not 96/24 at all...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> That Steely Dan Gaucho @ 24/96 is an awesome recording. Clean, noise free, just a delight. Great recording. Who says HD800s lack bass?


 


 Downloading, let see how good the bass of the HD800.........................................


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Hi Skylab, I just checked Amazon for a DSOTM recording in SACD, and didn't see one.
   
  Although I haven't heard anything specifically about Gaucho. I read on the CA forums that HD Tracks and Linn Records have come under fire for less than truthfull advertisements vis a vis hi rez recordings. Like you said, if it's a good recording, it will sound good. I'd be kidding myself (and everyone else) if I said my hearing was good enough to pick up on the discrepency.


----------



## nututubes

Skylab, I looked at Amazon again. Is it the DSOTM 30th anniversary edition hybrid SACD-DSD that you referred to?
   
  If so, I should buy it then use DB Poweramp to convert to flac.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I have a 24-bit/192kHz DSoTM vinyl rip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll shoot you a PM when I get home from work tonight.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Skylab, I looked at Amazon again. Is it the DSOTM 30th anniversary edition hybrid SACD-DSD that you referred to?
> 
> If so, I should buy it then use DB Poweramp to convert to flac.


 


  Yes, that was the one.  Note that you can only rip the CD layer, though.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I just checked HD Tracks and they don't have any Pink Floyd over there.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you ripping them?  What equipment are you using?


----------



## DavidMahler

I'm curious,
   
  What are the benefits of a completely upgraded Woo Audio 5?  What does each upgrade do for the sound, minus the tube upgrades?
   
  Would someone mind telling me step by step which upgrades do what?
   
   

 V-Cap input coupling caps. Matched pair 0.15uf/600V
 Jensen voltage filtering caps, 220uf/450V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/160V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/16V
 Blackgate bypass (300B cathode) caps, 470uf/160V
 Jensen decoupling caps, 100u/500V

   
  Thank you very much!


----------



## grokit




----------



## navii

I wanted to get some affordable/all round tubes to replace my stock WA6 tubes. I'm listening to music a lot so I wanted to have some spares around. Ive looked through various WA6 Rolling threads... and still feel a little clueless. What tubes should I be looking for? (ill use ebay to get them).
   
  I mostly listen to electronic music on my HD650s and K701s. But I also listen to all kinds of other music.


----------



## davo50

Shameless plug here, but I know it may be of interest to fellow Woo-ites...  I am selling a pair of Tung Sol BGRP (oval) 6SN7... here.   I bought these as NOS on ebay ($400) for a backup pair.  Raising funds for another purchase now.  Price negotiable.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Not me, but here's the equipment used:
   
  Top End J.A. Michell Turntable w/ SME3009 Tonearm
 Adapted Denon MC Head
 Custom built ($2,700 in parts) Preamp/DAC/ADC
 Written directly to the HDD in PCM format from the ADC.
 No post-processing or de-clicking done...this baby is just a pure vinyl transfer.
 Converted to Ape (the way I received it) and then transcoded to FLAC-5 using dbPowerAmp
   
  It's from the MFSL half-speed master vinyl.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sweet.


----------



## Icenine2

HD Tracks already addressed the Gaucho 24/96 issue.  Over at the Hoffman site they have all the track prints etc.  It is real 24/96.
   
  There is going to be a deluge of this stuff.  Floyd has got to be coming soon.  I'd think the whole catalog either download or a USB like the Beatles.


----------



## wind016

I'm still a bit clueless too...
  
  Quote: 





navii said:


> I wanted to get some affordable/all round tubes to replace my stock WA6 tubes. I'm listening to music a lot so I wanted to have some spares around. Ive looked through various WA6 Rolling threads... and still feel a little clueless. What tubes should I be looking for? (ill use ebay to get them).
> 
> I mostly listen to electronic music on my HD650s and K701s. But I also listen to all kinds of other music.


 

 Some people have suggested the EML 5U4G to me. I was wondering if it truly is the best. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong. FWIRead, the Sophia Princess accentuates the highs and that maybe the reason why I can not bare to listen to my ATH W1000/Sophia combo in the morning. FWIReard also, the EML 5U4g's highs are balanced so they should be ALOT less harsh than the Sophia but still just as detailed an extended? Is that true?
   
  What other tubes are there that can bring it warmth and still be highly detailed in the treble while also having a large soundstage? Right now, I use EQ in the mornings to lower the highs and bring up the lows. The headphones become tolerable to listen but the detail is just truly terrible. Phasing issues all over the place. If I have to, I'll buy the EML 5U4G if it is my only option.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Not me, but here's the equipment used:
> 
> _*Top End J.A. Michell Turntable w/ SME3009 Tonearm*_
> Adapted Denon MC Head
> ...


 


 LOVELY!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> I'm still a bit clueless too...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 


  I still believe you should start with a Tung Sol 5U4G.  It will address your frustrations with the Princess for only a few dollars.  You may have to sacrifice a bit of detail, but this is usually the case when pursuing increased warmth and smoothness.  At the end of the day you have to be using the right output tubes too, which I firmly believe is more important than the rectifier overall.  Synergy between the output tubes and the headphones will make or break your satisfaction with your system.


----------



## wind016

O snap! Thx for the info. I have new driver/power tubes coming in from Jack. 6EW7s. Can't wait =)  Since there have been many recommendations for the Tung Sol 5U4G, they must be great...
   
  Another question please answer! *How likely is it to get a fake tube?*
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Not likely.  The only real risk of fake NOS tubes are for ones which are valuable.  You'll see this with some Mullard, Brimar and Telefunken tubes but rarely are US made tubes valuable enough or rare enough for somebody to want to do such a thing.  The US tubes which are valuable are unique in such a way that a person can't fake them anyway, such as the round plate tung sol 6SN7GT.
   
  Just stick to sellers which have perfect or near perfect feedback and pay attention to descriptions closely.  After spending a bit of time with it all you'll get more comfortable and begin to know what to look for.  Another good reason to start with the TS 5U4G is that they are cheap enough that if you somehow make a goof you are not out much money even if the seller won't help (which they usually will).  It's when a person is buying tubes worth hundreds of dollars that they must be much more wary.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Aaaaaand.... speaking of the Tung Sol 5U4G.  Going from other rectifiers in my collection to it was a very positive comparison, but I've just spent nearly a month listening to the amp with the EML 274B + Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT combo and swapping the EML out for the TS is not quite so favorable a comparison.  Do I think the TS is a great tube, made into a really great tube by its cheap price?  Absolutely, but the EML still beats it by a country mile if you scrutinize.  I suppose it depends somewhat on the listener's priorities as well.  In terms of tone I can see a person liking the TS better, especially if it is warmth they want and consider detail and absolute coherency a second priority over tonal presentation.  I think the TS and the Bad Boys are actually too warm paired with each other, but it certainly is pleasant.  The fine detail, sense of separation and layering, and feeling of being "sorted" just isn't there compared with the EML though.  It feels veiled immediately upon listening after the change.  Certainly not a surprise considering the EML is well over 10x more expensive and that Emission Labs has had the luxury to study any NOS tubes it considered relevant and was thus able to mark and surpass the bar in terms of performance.
   
  I think every Woo owner should have one of these Tung Sols though.  They are one of the best rectifiers you can put in the amp when you consider the whole landscape of what is available IMO.  It is better than the RCA 5R4GYB I used for a long time by leaps and bounds.


----------



## wind016

Thanks Xcalibur255. You helped me alot. I have some Tung Sol 5U4G on my radar now and from impressions (your's included) it seems an EML will be in my collection sooner or later =)
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Aaaaaand.... speaking of the Tung Sol 5U4G.  Going from other rectifiers in my collection to it was a very positive comparison, but I've just spent nearly a month listening to the amp with the EML 274B + Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT combo and swapping the EML out for the TS is not quite so favorable a comparison.  Do I think the TS is a great tube, made into a really great tube by its cheap price?  Absolutely, but the EML still beats it by a country mile if you scrutinize.  I suppose it depends somewhat on the listener's priorities as well.  In terms of tone I can see a person liking the TS better, especially if it is warmth they want and consider detail and absolute coherency a second priority over tonal presentation.  I think the TS and the Bad Boys are actually too warm paired with each other, but it certainly is pleasant.  The fine detail, sense of separation and layering, and feeling of being "sorted" just isn't there compared with the EML though.  It feels veiled immediately upon listening after the change.  Certainly not a surprise considering the EML is well over 10x more expensive and that Emission Labs has had the luxury to study any NOS tubes it considered relevant and was thus able to mark and surpass the bar in terms of performance.
> 
> I think every Woo owner should have one of these Tung Sols though.  They are one of the best rectifiers you can put in the amp when you consider the whole landscape of what is available IMO.  It is better than the RCA 5R4GYB I used for a long time by leaps and bounds.


----------



## navii

Yep, thanks for your help.


----------



## kchew

My WA22 arrived on Friday, but I was too busy listening to it to take photos. Until now.
   

   

   
  Merry Christmas to all Woozies and thanks for all the helpful advice in this thread. I wouldn't have gotten my amp and tubes and emptied my wallet if not for you wonderful guys.


----------



## Icenine2

Merry Christmas to all and Happy Holidays!
   
  I'm going to be MIA here and there.  I've got the WA22 hooked up and literally can't tear myself away.  This is going to sound better after break in?  Incredible!  I've been running w/stock tubes to make sure all is well and today I'll pop in the EML 5 and Shu Treasures!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





kchew said:


> My WA22 arrived on Friday, but I was too busy listening to it to take photos. Until now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Great pics and congrats, kchew! Welcome to the club.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Merry Christmas to all and Happy Holidays!
> 
> I'm going to be MIA here and there.  I've got the WA22 hooked up and literally can't tear myself away.  This is going to sound better after break in?  Incredible!  I've been running w/stock tubes to make sure all is well and today I'll pop in the EML 5 and Shu Treasures!


 

 You'll be in for a treat! I told myself to stick to the stock tubes for a week to shake down the amp but I gave in to temptation today and swapped in the better tubes I got. I've got a bunch of 6SN7 tubes to try and I'll slowly start from the bottom (Tung Sol mouse ears) and end at the top (Tung Sol round plate). Looks like you're shooting straight to the top!
   
  @dannie01: Many thanks, I've been waiting for so long for my WA22 and it's such a joy to be part of the club now.


----------



## nututubes

@kchew, Happy Holidays and congrats on the WA22. If I may ask, are those Tund-Sol 5998s, or 6as7 or 6080 that you have in the photo?


----------



## Icenine2

Those Tung-Sol's look way cool.  I might have to get those.


----------



## dannie01

The TS 6AS7s are very powerful tubes and once you put the TSRPs, I bet you'll never walk back with the combo especially if you have the GEC on hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My beloved combo on WA22.


----------



## kchew

Those are Tung Sol 5998s. They don't glow that much in the daytime but are quite nice at night. I'm still keeping at eye out for GEC 6AS7s, and I'll try my GEC 6080s after a while.
   
  It'll take me a while to roll in the TSRPs as I'm starting from the bottom up; Tung Sol mouse ear, RCA grey glass, JAN Raytheon flat plate, Brimar black plate and finally TSRP. It'll spoil the fun if I go straight to TSRP no?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





kchew said:


> My WA22 arrived on Friday, but I was too busy listening to it to take photos. Until now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Really glad you could experience a WA22!  You are going to love it.  What is your DAC?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Merry Christmas to all and Happy Holidays!
> 
> I'm going to be MIA here and there.  I've got the WA22 hooked up and literally can't tear myself away.  This is going to sound better after break in?  Incredible!  I've been running w/stock tubes to make sure all is well and today I'll pop in the EML 5 and Shu Treasures!


 

 Happy holidays back at you.  If you are just running stock tubes and are about to put in the EML and Treasures you are about to to take a huge step up sonically.  The amp sounds much better broken in.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Those are Tung Sol 5998s. They don't glow that much in the daytime but are quite nice at night. I'm still keeping at eye out for GEC 6AS7s, and I'll try my GEC 6080s after a while.
> 
> It'll take me a while to roll in the TSRPs as I'm starting from the bottom up; Tung Sol mouse ear, RCA grey glass, JAN Raytheon flat plate, Brimar black plate and finally TSRP. It'll spoil the fun if I go straight to TSRP no?


 

 I'd save the TSRP for last.  I'd be interested in your take on the RCA grey glass.


----------



## kchew

Thanks Mike, I'm using a modded Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CDP that also acts as a DAC, fed from the optical output of my soundcard. Once I pop in the RCA grey glass I'll give an update.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The mouse ear is a fine tube in its own right.  It lacks the last measure of refinement and inner detail the exotic 6SN7 tubes have, but when you can find a nice pair for as little as $30 it is hard to complain, and it is far better than the garden variety 6SN7GTB tubes that share its price range.  I have multiple pairs of these and consider it a good "base" sound against which to compare other tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Thanks Mike, I'm using a modded Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CDP that also acts as a DAC, fed from the optical output of my soundcard. Once I pop in the RCA grey glass I'll give an update.


 

 So you can get to some hi resolution rips if you are coming off of your computer.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The TS 6AS7s are very powerful tubes and once you put the TSRPs, I bet you'll never walk back with the combo especially if you have the GEC on hand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yep there is no getting around it the TSRP's are the best for a drive tube.
   
  Now all you need is a matched pair of nos original WE300B's and you have your holy grail of amps and tubes. Also take a look at the HE6 headphone and you will come close to the sound of the WES with the STAX SR-007MK2, only you still will have the great dynamic sound of a 300B amp including the bass punch.
   
  Marry Christmas to all.


----------



## wind016

So today, I got work off. Sleeping late. Then the doorbell rang  and I ran out of bed. "Must be my 6EW7!" The mailwoman came really early @10am.
   
  It's been a couple hours that I've had the 6EW7s in my Woo 6 SE with Audio Technica W1000 and W11JPNs plugged in and I want to say:
   
I LOVE YOU JACK WU!!!!!
   
   
I'm sooo surprised how well Wu's amp works with low impedance cans. Sooooo smooth, detailed, and very very powerful!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Icenine2
   
  Any news on your DAC2?  When you plug that into your chain you're gonna have a smile like this!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> So today, I got work off. Sleeping late. Then the doorbell rang  and I ran out of bed. "Must be my 6EW7!" The mailwoman came really early @10am.
> 
> It's been a couple hours that I've had the 6EW7s in my Woo 6 SE with Audio Technica W1000 and W11JPNs plugged in and I want to say:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes as I suggested to you in a older post the 6EW7's are the way to go (imo the RCA Chome dome 6EW7 is the best for all around AQ), along with a EML 5U4G mesh plate. I have tried many rectifier tube's in my WA6SE max including the EML 274B mesh plate.
  There is little point in buying rectifier used tubes that are second best only to have those tubes end up in a drawer, once you hear the EML 5U4G mesh plate that's all you will use in your WA6SE.
   
  Yes the WA6SE is good with low imp headphones, I have been trying my HE6's(one of the hardest low imp headphones there is to drive) in my WA6SE and yes for 2ch audio the WA6SE does a good job of supplying the volume for the HE6. However there are better headphones for the WA6SE at that price point for the WA6SE.


----------



## illharmonics

Here is my WA6 setup.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> Here is my WA6 setup.


 

 Very nice looking setup.  Is the MAC your music server?


----------



## illharmonics

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Very nice looking setup.  Is the MAC your music server?


 


  Yes it is. Soon to add a record player into the mix, tho. Just working out how to go about doing that easily.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





illharmonics said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Been thinking of adding my turntable into the mix too.  Not enough space on my desk!!!!


----------



## wind016

You're right sillysally. I think from this experience, I put in my Sophia and I was perfectly fine with it plugged in. I didn't have a problem with the treble and I dont think I want less details than the Sophia. I guess from here, it's the EML 5U4G. XD
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes as I suggested to you in a older post the 6EW7's are the way to go (imo the RCA Chome dome 6EW7 is the best for all around AQ), along with a EML 5U4G mesh plate. I have tried many rectifier tube's in my WA6SE max including the EML 274B mesh plate.
> There is little point in buying rectifier used tubes that are second best only to have those tubes end up in a drawer, once you hear the EML 5U4G mesh plate that's all you will use in your WA6SE.
> 
> Yes the WA6SE is good with low imp headphones, I have been trying my HE6's(one of the hardest low imp headphones there is to drive) in my WA6SE and yes for 2ch audio the WA6SE does a good job of supplying the volume for the HE6. However there are better headphones for the WA6SE at that price point for the WA6SE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So I'm sure I can never reach the "holy grail". No one will pay that sky high price to buy my kidney and let me fund a pair of original WE300Bs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're right, I'm wondering there might have better dynamic and bass punch of the WA5LE (even the performance of the EAT is already very good) with good match of 300Bs but trial of these "Money Eater" is far out of my range. 
  
  What about the LCD-2? I'm interested to try this new toy and read that from other threads it should be more easy to play with good sound than a HE-6.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well then how about the wife's kidney.
   
  Anyway It took me 10 days of phone and E-Mail negotiations and research with the non for profit organization I got my WE300Bs from, at a price close to what I could afford.
   
  imo you do have a good match with the 300B's you do have.
   
  Yes your WA5 should have np powering the LCD-2's. If it where not for the challenge of powering the HE6 I probably would have stuck with my HD-800. I always wondered why I needed all the power of the WA5 and as blind luck would have it I now know.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





> What about the LCD-2? I'm interested to try this new toy and read that from other threads it should be more easy to play with good sound than a HE-6.


 
   
  I'm curious about this, too; I placed my LCD-2 pre-order about 3 weeks ago, and I'm anxiously waiting for them to be ready to ship.  
   
  The LCD-2 threads are huge, but there has not been much talk of how they mesh with the Woo amps so far.
   
  I am also using the EML 5U4G in my WA6SE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well then how about the wife's kidney.
> 
> Anyway It took me 10 days of phone and E-Mail negotiations and research with the non for profit organization I got my WE300Bs from, at a price close to what I could afford.
> 
> ...


 

 Haha, good suggestion, I'll think about that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I read about the path how you get the amazing WE300Bs in your thread which is not an easy deal that you've spend a lot of time in the communication with the society members. BTW, I'm quiet satisfy with the EATs in the WA5LE. And will wait a while for the LCD-2, it's too hot in the meanwhile. 
   
  The WA5 is really powerful, before I mod the stock Alps to a Shallco attenuator, I rarely dial the knob to the 10 o'clock position, 9 to 9300 is probably the best pair with the HD800. But it's interesting, after replaced by the Shallco, I hvae to turn 10 to 11 click that similar to 10 to 1030 position and this attenuator is even perform much better sonically in all aspect than the Alps but you need to do some file and drilling works with proper tools in both the chassis and the hole of the volume knob because it is huge compare with the Alps. But it really worth the extra work, sound amazing.


----------



## dannie01

*MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL TUBIE WOOZIES!*
   
*                  HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!*


----------



## tink97

MERRY CHRISTMAS!


----------



## mikemalter

*Merry Christmas!*


----------



## Icenine2

*Merry Christmas Mike!!!*


----------



## Icenine2

illharmonics,
   
  My wife would much have preferred me to get the WA6.  She says my WA22 "looks like some sort of science experiment" and "where are you going to put that?"
   
  All my years of stereo-audio with speakers floating into the room, rack of separates and very little said..............this she is going nuts over.  I should have got a Grace 903 and it would have been inconspicuous.  However the sound...........is Nirvana!


----------



## Icenine2

Windy City,
   
  I should wait another month to buy the DAC2 but I don't think I can hold off much longer here.  The 22 sounds killer just coming out of the computer.  I am dying to hear the real deal balanced out!  A super bummer: on Audiogon a reviewer sold his Black DAC2 for $900!?!?  Just missed getting it by a day.  I'm getting silver but I could have endured the black.
   
  I had been running the stock tubes to make sure the amp ran fine.  It did and even with 10 hours on those now the new EML/Shu Treasures have to get hours on them now.


----------



## Icenine2

Does anyone think the headphone jack for unbalanced regular is a bit wobbly?  My HeadRoom Home is like a rock.   The jack here is light and not the grip of death.  Plus if you hold the phone plug you can wobble it.  The HeadRoom is probably attached to a board.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Windy City,
> 
> I should wait another month to buy the DAC2 but I don't think I can hold off much longer here.  The 22 sounds killer just coming out of the computer.  I am dying to hear the real deal balanced out!  A super bummer: on Audiogon a reviewer sold his Black DAC2 for $900!?!?  Just missed getting it by a day.  I'm getting silver but I could have endured the black.
> 
> I had been running the stock tubes to make sure the amp ran fine.  It did and even with 10 hours on those now the new EML/Shu Treasures have to get hours on them now.


 

 Next month your EML and Treasures will be all broken in and you'll be able to really hear what a nice DAC can do.  What is the source for the DAC going to be, your computer?


----------



## Icenine2

Yes the comuter


----------



## grokit

What's going on with these EML 5U4Gs? Is there anywhere I can just point and click one, or do I have to call around and beg?


----------



## mikemalter

I have just put up 2 pairs of TSRP for sale in the classifieds section.  Please PM me if you are interested.


----------



## SpudHarris

EML - http://www.jacmusic.com/


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As you asked. I have been away from head-fi for some time now. At last Seattle meet, I won a pair of LCD-2 with Ken's custom made cable for $20 raffle ticket Kingstyle and my wife bought for me.


----------



## Seamaster

WA22 and WA6 drive LCD-2 with no problem, but not as good as liquild fire amp. I am still using a pair of GEC 6AS7G and NU round plate 6F8G with EML 5U4G mesh plate. I am happier tham S**t now. Note: WA22 drive LCD-2 on high setting better.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I know Skylab had good things to say about the WA2 and WA6 driving the LCD-2 as well, but nothing specific..... just a general positive impression.  This is the headphone I am buying next as well.  By the time that is possible I imagine there won't be a wait list anymore.
   
   
   
  Happy Holidays Woo-ers!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> EML - http://www.jacmusic.com/


 
   
  I emailed George requesting one in early November, he said they were backordered until the end of the month and that he would let me know when they were available. Now it's the end of the following month and I haven't heard anything so I just bugged him again (sigh).
   
   
  edit: George is busy elving out tonight, busy packing electro-globes for the thermionically enchanted. I told him I would leave some milk and cookies out for him, and he seemed appreciative. Wouldn't that be nice if my EML really came down the chimney tonight!
   
  Anyways Merry Christmas Woozies, enjoy!!


----------



## flaming_june

Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
   
  There's gotta be a better place, or another place to get some EML.  The shipping from george to Canada was 40usd for one tube.
   

   
  If you can only buy one thing only, would you buy a headphone (beyer T1) or a WA22+tubes first?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
> 
> There's gotta be a better place, or another place to get some EML.  The shipping from george to Canada was 40usd for one tube.
> 
> ...


 

 Question - how do you listen to a WA22 with no headphones?


----------



## flaming_june

Already have a collection, but a t1 would be my next baby.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
> 
> There's gotta be a better place, or another place to get some EML.  The shipping from george to Canada was 40usd for one tube.


 

 George is charging me $38.05 to ship a single tube to me in the USA. I called him on it and he says it's the PayPal fees but that's only $8.05; he is charging $30 to ship with $300 of insurance, in a "shoe-sized box". I don't think the package could weigh that much and a large flat rate box would only be about half that but he is having a hard time keeping th 5U4G's in stock so whattaya gonna do if you want one... that's right, pay up suckah!


----------



## sillysally

I ordered my new pair of EML 5U4G from George last Thursday and got them on Monday. 
   
  Sent back my bad EML 5U4G to Jack, I may see the new one in a month or so from Jack, in the mean time I am really enjoying my new EML 5U4G's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For the extra $15 just grin and bare it, or you can wait and save the $15.  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Your lucky George didn't tell you to forget it. My pair came in a box about twice the size as the box my WA6SE came in, and yes I paid the extra $25 and thanked him for the prompt shipping.


----------



## yifu

Hey guys just a question, what is the "standard" lifespan of a tube before you need to replace it?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If my memory is correct, your wife bought you the LCD-2 and the WA22, I envy to have a wife like that.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> WA22 and WA6 drive LCD-2 with no problem, but not as good as liquild fire amp. I am still using a pair of GEC 6AS7G and NU round plate 6F8G with EML 5U4G mesh plate. I am happier tham S**t now. Note: WA22 drive LCD-2 on high setting better.


 

  The LCD-2 is already in my wish list for awhile, hopefully can pull the trigger soon.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes as I said your EAT's are what I would be running now, if it wasn't for the good old boys.
   
  With my ALPS RK50 in my WA5LE and my HD-800's 9:30 is about max. And yes Jack had to cut out about a square  inch in the bottom plate to get the Alps to fit. The stock Alps Jack uses is the low end of the alps line, and that's why I went for the huge Alps upgrade, plus Jack was very kind to me on the price. 
   
  With my HE6's I have the alps set at about 12:00 for CD's and 1:00 for movies. But with the HE6's its not about the volume its about the power of the amp, and that's where the four big towers on are WA5's come into play. I finely found a head phone deserving of are WA5 and all its power, truly a great match.
   
  I saw a picture of your WA22 and let me say you do a very nice job of modding.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes as I said your EAT's are what I would be running now, if it wasn't for the good old boys.
> 
> With my ALPS RK50 in my WA5LE and my HD-800's 9:30 is about max. And yes Jack had to cut out about a square  inch in the bottom plate to get the Alps to fit. The stock Alps Jack uses is the low end of the alps line, and that's why I went for the huge Alps upgrade, plus Jack was very kind to me on the price.
> 
> ...


 

 The EAT is probably the best I can afford for the type 300Bs in the moment or maybe I will find and try some EML or KR later.
   
  Wow, the HE-6 is really a power hunger. I do play 9:30 to 10:00 max on the stock Alps blue velvet in my WA5LE before mod, the RK50 may have the very similar construction so you have the max vol at 9:30 same as the stock VC. The Shallco is also in 100K resistance but the configuration of the resistors maybe a bit different than the Alps so why I need to dial a bit higher.
   
  Thanks for the kind words, when I sold the WA22 to jc there is some accident caused by the shippment then jc shipped it back to Jack for a repir that he stated in his earlier posts. Finally, Jack fixed the problems and re-arranged some of the components in the WA22 and make it more neat and tidy.


----------



## grokit

Grumble grumble, sillysally doesn't have to build a whole new system because he had the right amp for the HE-6 all along and didn't even know it, while I am still mucking about considering a new balanced DAC for my speaker amp! Oh well, the HE-6 still rocks but I don't know how much time I will spend with it in its stand-alone system now that I have I have my LCD-2, it's really a great compliment to the HD800 on the WA22.
   
  On the bright side I only needed to buy one EML 5U4G, as it cost almost as much as the Emotiva DAC I am looking at


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Grumble grumble, sillysally doesn't have to build a whole new system because he had the right amp for the HE-6 all along and didn't even know it, while I am still mucking about considering a new balanced DAC for my speaker amp! Oh well, the HE-6 still rocks but I don't know how much time I will spend with it in its stand-alone system now that I have I have my LCD-2, it's really a great compliment to the HD800 on the WA22.
> 
> On the bright side I only needed to buy one EML 5U4G, as it cost almost as much as the Emotiva DAC I am looking at


 

 Sometimes you just have to pay.  But it is really worth it.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No "PAY" no gain?


----------



## welchie

Santa just delivered a Woo WA6 with a Sophia Princess 274B. I'm running my Denon Markl modded D5000's. I couldn't be more pleased.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes!


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





welchie said:


> Santa just delivered a Woo WA6 with a Sophia Princess 274B. I'm running my Denon Markl modded D5000's. I couldn't be more pleased.


 


 Merry Christmas!!!!


----------



## wind016

Tung Sols are selling at Ebay for $60+...  At that price, I think it's better to just save up for the EML 5U4G...
   
   
  Anyways, Merry Christmas everybody!


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Tung Sols are selling at Ebay for $60+...  At that price, I think it's better to just save up for the EML 5U4G...
> 
> 
> Anyways, Merry Christmas everybody!


 

 The Tung Sol 5u4gb's are more plentiful and sell for a lot less on ebay than the 5u4g.  To me, they sound just as good if not a little better (tighter bass).  A great low cost back-up to the EML's.


----------



## wind016

Um... dang... ok... I'll consider it again...
  
  Quote: 





davo50 said:


> The Tung Sol 5u4gb's are more plentiful and sell for a lot less on ebay than the 5u4g.  To me, they sound just as good if not a little better (tighter bass).  A great low cost back-up to the EML's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If you have the bug for the EML then you might as well save up for it.  As sillysally said once you have an EML rectifier you can consider yourself done.  There really is nothing better out there, but there is fun/value in tube rolling just to experience different flavors and gain knowledge.  Purely for sound quality if you want the best the EML is the last stop on the train ride so buying other tubes is a waste of money if you are going to end up at the last stop anyway unless you just want to hear them for the sake of it the way I do.


----------



## balderon

I have the EML 274B in my WA6. Has anyone heard any sonic differences between the EML 5U4G mesh and EML 274B mesh?
   
  Edit: I discovered this thread after my initial post. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/450361/emission-labs-5u4g-mesh-vs-274b-mesh Any other comments?


----------



## navii

Well I thought I might as well start rolling some I got some cheap tubes to start me:
   
  PHILCO 5U4GB 5U4 TUBE BLACK PLATES HALO GETTER
   
  6FD7 Tube Sylvania US NOS Big Bottle
   
  See how my WA6 sounds.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you have the bug for the EML then you might as well save up for it.  As sillysally said once you have an EML rectifier you can consider yourself done.  There really is nothing better out there, but there is fun/value in tube rolling just to experience different flavors and gain knowledge.  Purely for sound quality if you want the best the EML is the last stop on the train ride so buying other tubes is a waste of money if you are going to end up at the last stop anyway unless you just want to hear them for the sake of it the way I do.


 

 Thanks for the validation Xcaliber, I needed that..!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Grumble grumble, sillysally doesn't have to build a whole new system because he had the right amp for the HE-6 all along and didn't even know it, while I am still mucking about considering a new balanced DAC for my speaker amp! Oh well, the HE-6 still rocks but I don't know how much time I will spend with it in its stand-alone system now that I have I have my LCD-2, it's really a great compliment to the HD800 on the WA22.
> 
> On the bright side I only needed to buy one EML 5U4G, as it cost almost as much as the Emotiva DAC I am looking at


 

 Yes I didn't know I had the right amp, but then again you never really know until you try it. But I did have a good idea that the WA5LE would power the HE6's.
  This amp doesn't weigh 75 pounds because its big but because of the large well made transformers that Jack uses with the WA5, and that is were the power of this amp comes into play. As I have said all along, its not about volume its about power for the HE6. And because of this power you do need a very good pot and that's why I had Jack put in the Alps RK50.
  As far as a balanced amp and gear's yes if it has the power of the WA5LE then that's fine but not necessary to go balanced. As with any amp its what's inside, tubes and supporting gears that matter.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Although I only have the HD800 and DX1000 in the meanwhile (hopefully bet the LCD-2 very soon), I agree totally about the power of the WA5LE and a good volume pot may improve the already very good WA5LE a lot.


----------



## DavidMahler

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is there any advantage to the WA5 non LE version when powering extremely difficult headphones like HE-6 and K1000?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you have the bug for the EML then you might as well save up for it.  As sillysally said once you have an EML rectifier you can consider yourself done.  There really is nothing better out there, but there is fun/value in tube rolling just to experience different flavors and gain knowledge.  Purely for sound quality if you want the best the EML is the last stop on the train ride so buying other tubes is a waste of money if you are going to end up at the last stop anyway unless you just want to hear them for the sake of it the way I do.


 


  I'll have to echo this statement!  I went from the stock 5U4G to the EML 5U4G mesh and never looked back.  The only other rectifer tube I've tried is the EML 5U4G solid plate but the mesh is more refined and enjoyable by a small margin.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





davidmahler said:


> Is there any advantage to the WA5 non LE version when powering extremely difficult headphones like HE-6 and K1000?


 
   
   I have a WA5 (non LE) and am using the K1000 jack to power an HE-6 and the sound is incredible!  I wasn't sure how that jack would do when I ordered the HE-6.  I rigged a speaker adapter cable from the 1/4" adapter cable to see if the speaker taps sounded better.  The sound is basically the same.  It only takes 9:00 on the volume knob to reach my listening level when using the K1K jack.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





davidmahler said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 According to Jack the power is the same for both the WA5 and LE.
  However the WA5 has one 1/4" plug and a XLR connector were the WA5LE has two 1/4" jacks for Low and High imp.. 
  The question of the HE6 using the XLR connector was asked and Jacks reply was maybe because of the low imp of the HE6. That said the man that has the WA5 reported that there is NP using the XLR connector for the HE6.
   
  So imo if you are using a balanced system then you may want the XLR connector, if not then as long as you are not braking the headphone cord using the adapter for the 1/4" plug then go with the LE.
   
  I did get a X-10 HE6 headphone cable (15') 1/4" (SE) and my HE6's are very balanced and seem to have a little better volume than the stock cable with the adapter for SE (1/4").
   
  Davo50 you are a faster at the keyboard than me.


----------



## Maxvla

Anyone have recent order and received times? I realize it's Christmas, but I'm anxious to get my WA6. I ordered exactly 3 weeks ago. The email said 2-3 weeks ship time. I didn't indicate Christmas gift rush or anything so it's totally fine if he put my order behind others to get them out in time for gifts.


----------



## vinyllp33

davo50 said:


> I have a WA5 (non LE) and am using the K1000 jack to power an HE-6 and the sound is incredible!  I wasn't sure how that jack would do when I ordered the HE-6.  I rigged a speaker adapter cable from the 1/4" adapter cable to see if the speaker taps sounded better.  The sound is basically the same.  It only takes 9:00 on the volume knob to reach my listening level when using the K1K jack.





 

The K1K jack and the speaker outputs should sound the same as these are both producing full amplifer power of around 8-9 watts. However the standard headphone outputs of the WA5 and WA5LE both put out the same power of 1.5 watts as stated on Woo Audio's website.

To me the primary advantage of the WA5 is the ability to properly drive the K1000's with the speaker outputs being an added bonus.


----------



## DavidMahler

Does the WA5 LE not power the K1000?


----------



## grokit

So the two 1/4" jacks on the LE version have wattage differences in addition to impedance or are they both 1.5w?
   
  Whoops I think DM and myself are asking the same thing


----------



## vinyllp33

The 1/4in jacks are the same power, high or low impedance on both the WA5 and WA5LE.

On the WA5 the K1K jack will output speaker level power. I have not tried the K1000 from an LE but from the 1/4in jack on the WA5, which should be the same, there is not enough power to drive the K1000.

Comparing the speaker outputs to the K1K output the overall volume and drive are the same but the dedicated jack still sounds superior I suppose due to better impedance matching.


----------



## Clayton SF

I am now in Amsterdam and I am going to a hifi store down the street to see if they carry any NOS tubes or something or other to add to my Woo. More headphones perhaps? Tot ziens.


----------



## mikemalter

What district is the tube store in?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am now in Amsterdam and I am going to a hifi store down the street to see if they carry any NOS tubes or something or other to add to my Woo. More headphones perhaps? Tot ziens.


 

 Nothing better than pulling some tubes in Amsterdam...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am now in Amsterdam and I am going to a hifi store down the street to see if they carry any NOS tubes or something or other to add to my Woo. More headphones perhaps? Tot ziens.


 


 Hope there is no heavy snow fall in Amsterdam, good luck for the tubes search.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hope there is no heavy snow fall in Amsterdam, good luck for the tubes search.


 

 I'm not in Amsterdam but I got over 20 inches last night.  Time to go back to listening...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Twenty inches?  Where are you?


----------



## mikemalter

Some interesting changes in my system.
   
  After dusting off my Monarchy DIP and putting it back into my system, I changed from 96 to 192 kHz on my PS Audio DLIII DAC and I am looking for the performance gains I have read about in a few reviews.
   
  Putting the DIP in there definitely bumps performance.  I do get a more air or sense of space around instruments and people.  The biggest thing I think I can say is that it seems like the headphones have disappeared.  The sound does not seem to come from the headphones anymore but present themselves.  Kind of like when you get your speakers set up just right and they disappear from the picture.
   
  However there is something else that I think I'm hearing with the 192 setting that is not there when I have the DAC set to 96.  It is not something that is easy to describe, but a kind of an extra pressure that is there.  Have you guys ever heard/felt that experience?  When I switch back to 96 it goes away immediately.
   
  The other point I wanted to share about the DIP is that there is very little difference in audio quality when I come from my laptop or Wadia i170.  The stuff from my laptop has a little of that high pressure thing, but very little.  I like that I can get higher definition tunes to play full bandwidth from my laptop.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I got about a foot or so here and I live roughly 45 minutes west of Boston.  I had submitted PTO for today a couple of months ago, but work was cancelled due to the storm.  Here's to hoping my boss is nice enough to give me an additional day off! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Also, thanks John (nututubes) for letting me borrow the GEC 6AS7Gs!  I'm listening to them now w/ some hot chocolate and watching the wind blow the snow around outside.  Some Pink Floyd would be perfect right around now...


----------



## Icenine2

You guys want to test out your rig.  After reading Tone Audio Mag's killer review of* Eno's Small Craft in a Milk Sea* from Beep.com in 24 bit I downloaded it (it takes time too) and Ambient music deluxe here.  Giving the new rig a real workout!


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Some interesting changes in my system.
> 
> After dusting off my Monarchy DIP and putting it back into my system, I changed from 96 to 192 kHz on my PS Audio DLIII DAC and I am looking for the performance gains I have read about in a few reviews.
> 
> ...


 


  Yep, I know what you're talking about with the DLIII.  I've had it on 96kHz for the longest time until a few weeks ago and I haven't looked back since.  There's more clarity and separation.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So you like 96 best then?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Nope, 192kHz.  Sorry if I wasn't clear... this music + hot chocolate is making me sleepy.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, this is what I am trying to get to.  You like 192.  We both have the same DAC.  What is the source for the DAC?
   
  Also, I get the clarity and seperation stuff.  Do you ever hear something that is barely audible, but is like high pressure on your ears?


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> You guys want to test out your rig.  After reading Tone Audio Mag's killer review of* Eno's Small Craft in a Milk Sea* from Beep.com in 24 bit I downloaded it (it takes time too) and Ambient music deluxe here.  Giving the new rig a real workout!


 

 A fellow Eno fan, wonderful!
   
  His albums are so intricately produced, they are absolutely made for headphone listening. 
   
  The 24bit download of his new release is quite good, I also recommend it highly.
   
  Great Fun!


----------



## Clayton SF

Well I went by the store and it is closed today. And from what I've observed from the window they probably sell no tubes but I thought it might have been a good place to start to ask where one would go to buy them. It's really just a hifi store. http://hifisolutions.nl/
  It's by Wertheimpark, by the Plantage District.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well I went by the store and it is closed today. And from what I've observed from the window they probably sell no tubes but I thought it might have been a good place to start to ask where one would go to buy them. It's really just a hifi store. http://hifisolutions.nl/
> It's by Wertheimpark, by the Plantage District.


 

 You are so close to England, maybe you can find a few pairs of GEC 6as7G's!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I actually had to cancel my flight to and from England / Amsterdam because of the weather and Boxing Day so I'm returning to San Francisco on 29 Dec. I leave Schiphol Airport at 11:15 AM on 29 Dec. and land at SF Airport at 1:30 PM the same day. So no tubes from England. I wish I could have visited the old Mullard Factory in Blackburn.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
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> ...


 


  I'm just using my motherboard's optical output from my computer.  As for the barely audible high pressure, I don't hear a difference when I switch between 96 and 192kHz.  Is it a very constant low-level sound when you're not playing any music?  If so, it could just be hum from the amp.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> However there is something else that I think I'm hearing with the 192 setting that is not there when I have the DAC set to 96.  It is not something that is easy to describe, but a kind of an extra pressure that is there.  Have you guys ever heard/felt that experience?  When I switch back to 96 it goes away immediately.


 

 Not sure if this is the same thing you experience, but for me, the 96 setting is more relaxed and natural, almost laid back, while the 192 setting is a little bit edgier and (dare I say it) more digital. I don't prefer either one outright, just select one or another based on mood.


----------



## Icenine2

Here's a tube shot of the new WA22 w/EML+Shu Treasures


----------



## Icenine2

Here's just the EML 5U4G Mesh


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Here's just the EML 5U4G Mesh


 

 Really nice!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Quote:
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> ...


 

 Yeah, I agree the DLIII sounds different in 96k vs 192K mode.  When I had mine the 96K mode was better for my Woo WA6 with RCA 6DE7 and Sophia Princess 274b, because it was as you say "more relaxed and natural sounding" (just like the Stello DA1000); but the 192K mode was best for my Woo GES with GE 12AX7 for Stax O2 because it sounded a little brighter and a little more open and airy which complemented my slightly dark sounding O2.  With a poor transport and too much jitter, then the 192K mode did sound more digital as you said, but with a good transport like Macbook Pro optical out or a Marantz CDP coax out I thought the 192K mode was pretty good.  For $699 with a good transport the DLIII made a great source for my Woo amps, although my Perfectwave DAC is a nice step up.  With the PWD I actually leave it in "native" mode with no up-sampling, and haven't compared the differences with up-sampling even though I've had it for 9 months.  With the DLIII it was always on and you had no choice but to try one or the other.


----------



## dannie01

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jc9394 said:


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> ...


 


 20 inches of snow?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Are U in South Pole?


----------



## jc9394

Close and I'm very tired too of shovel all those white stuff. Time to get a snow blower very fast. Thank god, I have this week off.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Close and I'm very tired too of shovel all those white stuff. Time to get a snow blower very fast. Thank god, I have this week off.


 

 I hear there is another one coming in, but not as bad.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 The other is coming, keep shovel my friend.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Here's just the EML 5U4G Mesh


 

  Nice pics Icenine2.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> The other is coming, keep shovel my friend.





 


Thanks pal, never expect that much snow this year. Well I guess it is part of house ownership. Don't have to do anything with the condo now.


----------



## Icenine2

When talking transports I wouldn't include any computer in that group.  You are better off playing files.  If you are playing CD's then you need a dedicated player or transport.  _*All the money spent on tubes and a Woo aren't going to matter if your transport isn't the at the same leve*_l.   A good transport isn't cheap by any means and they are prone to problems down the road because they are mechanical with drawer loading mechanisms save top loaders.  The good news is you can pick up a great used transport that would have cost thousands years back for a deal these days.  However the way everything is going is file playback.  Sure there will always be CD's but you can get a great DAC these days and hook it up to your computer and do away with a transport.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> When talking transports I wouldn't include any computer in that group.  You are better off playing files.  If you are playing CD's then you need a dedicated player or transport.  _*All the money spent on tubes and a Woo aren't going to matter if your transport isn't the at the same leve*_l.   A good transport isn't cheap by any means and they are prone to problems down the road because they are mechanical with drawer loading mechanisms save top loaders.  The good news is you can pick up a great used transport that would have cost thousands years back for a deal these days.  However the way everything is going is file playback.  Sure there will always be CD's but you can get a great DAC these days and hook it up to your computer and do away with a transport.


 

 I like the idea that PS Audio is using for their transport.  They read the disk into memory, and play from there.  All error correction is before the memory buffer.
   
  I arree with you that files are going to be a lot bigger then they are now, but I don't think that it's going to be totally files though.


----------



## Icenine2

I like their idea too.  I and some others had been discussing that very same idea a few years before his came out.  I do think everything will be files though.  Eventually I would think some sort of monthly service subscription with a direct connect?  Still you can avoid all the cost of a transport by getting a primo USB DAC or HDMI DAC eventually (I know PS has this already but to what extent I don't know).  What I'd really like to see is someone like Apple or computer based company to come up with a DAC solution that is not only high end but because of their technology/production....inexpensive too offering the masses a great sound.
   
  BTW-the 22 is sounding better every day!  I'm just letting it run about 6 hours at a time.
   
  Lately I've been looking at all the MFSL, DCC, and Japanese mini disks I own and wondering why I don't just burn them, back them up and sell them?  Don't know.  My fear is I lose all my files and backup but what are the chances?


----------



## khollister

Soon to be Woo owner here - just ordered a WA2 for my HD600's after a LOT of reading and a few emails back and forth with Jack. A little nervous about tube availability & cost, but I'm looking forward to a big step up from my HR-2. Going to be added to a dedicated Mac Mini music server (with Pure Music software), Apogee Duet firewire DAC and Cardas cable. Silver, of course to match the Apple stuff. The Mini is headless and I run it with an iPad over WiFi.
   
  Keith


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Soon to be Woo owner here - just ordered a WA2 for my HD600's after a LOT of reading and a few emails back and forth with Jack. A little nervous about tube availability & cost, but I'm looking forward to a big step up from my HR-2. Going to be added to a dedicated Mac Mini music server (with Pure Music software), Apogee Duet firewire DAC and Cardas cable. Silver, of course to match the Apple stuff. The Mini is headless and I run it with an iPad over WiFi.
> 
> Keith


 

 Welcome to the club Keith. When can you expect delivery?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I like their idea too.  I and some others had been discussing that very same idea a few years before his came out.  I do think everything will be files though.  Eventually I would think some sort of monthly service subscription with a direct connect?  Still you can avoid all the cost of a transport by getting a primo USB DAC or HDMI DAC eventually (I know PS has this already but to what extent I don't know).  What I'd really like to see is someone like Apple or computer based company to come up with a DAC solution that is not only high end but because of their technology/production....inexpensive too offering the masses a great sound.
> 
> BTW-the 22 is sounding better every day!  I'm just letting it run about 6 hours at a time.
> 
> Lately I've been looking at all the MFSL, DCC, and Japanese mini disks I own and wondering why I don't just burn them, back them up and sell them?  Don't know.  My fear is I lose all my files and backup but what are the chances?


 

 PS Audio's DAC has a physical HDMI in that is intended to connect to their transport.  It is not the HDMI standard, but a different one that uses the a physical HDMI cable.
   
  Glad to hear the 22 is coming along well.  I am really happy with mine.
   
  I'll never sell off my CD's.  If something were to happen to my music collection it would all go up in smoke and I don't want to loose anything.  It happened to me once before.


----------



## khollister

Not sure -  haven't received any email back from Jack after the order was placed and paid for. I'll drop him a note tomorrow if I haven't heard. What's the normal procedure?
  
  Quote: 





balderon said:


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## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Going to be added to a dedicated Mac Mini music server (with Pure Music software), Apogee Duet firewire DAC and Cardas cable. Silver, of course to match the Apple stuff. The Mini is headless and I run it with an iPad over WiFi.
> 
> Keith


 

 This sounds like what I would like to do with my setup; Can you give some details on how your Mac Mini server is set up, and how the iPad controls it?  Are you using iTunes?  I'm not familiar with the Pure Music software.  
   
  I am interested in using a Mac Mini to store my iTunes library, and outputting it to a DacMagic and on to my WA6SE.  I do not want to add a monitor to the Mini, and have been wondering if an iPad could be used somehow as a wireless monitor for the Mini.


----------



## khollister

The short form is I use iTunes as the "librarian" for the music. Pure Music is an iTunes plugin that advertises (and provides in my listening tests) better fidelity playback than iTunes offers. I have the Mini setup bare bones with everything not essential shutdown. I installed a SSD for the OS & SW and use an external bus-powered 2.5" 500GB drive to store the music (iTunes library). There is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that a lot of this makes an audible difference in the sound (I have confirmed much of it myself).
   
  For basic playback, I use the Apple Remote iPad app which acts as a very nice remote control for any iTunes library across the network. For more intensive stuff, I use Jump (one of many VNC clients for the iPad) to run a remote desktop on the Mini.
  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


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----------



## jerico

I have a very similar setup, Khollister - headless Mac Mini with iTunes/Pure Music, controlled with an iPad (iTeleport VNC and Remote app). I store my music on a NAS though, accessed via PowerLine Ethernet adapters.

I find Pure Music's memory playback mode to be essential. It tkes some time to pre-load each track but after that, no skipping or network congestion issues in playback. Maybe it improves jitter - who knows. Sounds great though!

Separately:

I bit the bullet and rolled my tube upgrades (from Woo) into my WA22 - I lasted 3 days!

Sounds beautiful - tonight is an Eno night!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


khollister said:


> The short form is I use iTunes as the "librarian" for the music. Pure Music is an iTunes plugin that advertises (and provides in my listening tests) better fidelity playback than iTunes offers. I have the Mini setup bare bones with everything not essential shutdown. I installed a SSD for the OS & SW and use an external bus-powered 2.5" 500GB drive to store the music (iTunes library). There is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that a lot of this makes an audible difference in the sound (I have confirmed much of it myself).
> 
> For basic playback, I use the Apple Remote iPad app which acts as a very nice remote control for any iTunes library across the network. For more intensive stuff, I use Jump (one of many VNC clients for the iPad) to run a remote desktop on the Mini.


 

 Thanks for the info; I have several Macs which are used in my home-based business, but this is the most compelling reason for me to get a Mini and iPad.  I've been working on switching over to a computer based setup to get my music into the Woo, but did not want to have a monitor and keyboard next to my recliner.  The idea of having the music library on the Mac Mini, which will be wired to the DacMagic/WA6SE, and controlling it wirelessly from the iPad while listening is very appealing.


----------



## khollister

Just heard from Jack - only 2 Weeks until the WA2 is ready!


----------



## El_Doug

congrats!  just enough time to stockpile some tubes  
  
  Quote: 





			
				khollister said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Just heard from Jack - only 2 Weeks until the WA2 is ready!


----------



## khollister

Yeah, but I have been rather discouraged in my search for power tubes - not much seems to be available. I have found several RCA 6AS7G's, but nothing in matched pairs. Options seem to be good for 6DJ8/6922's. The Sylvania 7236's Jack is selling may be as good as it gets. This is kind of freaking me out thinking I won't be able to keep this thing going in a few years.
  
  Quote: 





el_doug said:


> congrats!  just enough time to stockpile some tubes
> 
> Quote:
> 
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----------



## WindyCityCy

What format are you storing your music in?  Can you play back 24/96 or higher fidelity?  Thanks.

  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> I have a very similar setup, Khollister - headless Mac Mini with iTunes/Pure Music, controlled with an iPad (iTeleport VNC and Remote app). I store my music on a NAS though, accessed via PowerLine Ethernet adapters.
> 
> I find Pure Music's memory playback mode to be essential. It tkes some time to pre-load each track but after that, no skipping or network congestion issues in playback. Maybe it improves jitter - who knows. Sounds great though!
> 
> ...


----------



## khollister

I am storing it in Apple Lossless, however I am planning on uncompressing it back to AIFF on the Mini. I have convinced myself there is a very slight sonic advantage to playing it uncompressed (don't ask me to explain it scientifically). I have tested with ripping it to ALAC versus AIFF with XLD, and I cannot hear any difference whether it is ripped to AIFF or AIFF expanded from the ALAC (or presumably FLAC). It appears to have something to do with the computer decompressing it on the fly during playback.
   
  The Duet goes up to 24/96. Not familiar with the DacMagic that Jerico uses. The software on the Mac side isn't limited - it is set by the DAC you use. The forum at computeraudiophile.com is into the computer side of this stuff just as deep as we are into the amp/headphone side here. The Computer Audio subforum here is much more casual/midfi than over there.
   
  I am in the final process of ripping the last couple hundred CD's of my collection (I have been at it for a couple years) and sold my Rega Planet CDP last year. I am getting rid of all of the CD's - everything is in the computers and can be served up to the Apple TV 2 in the home theater rig or sent to the dedicated headphone rig. I have extensive backup strategies (including offsite storage) and have a complete library copy on my Mac Pro as well as on the dedicated Mini. The Mac Pro library is what I stream to the home theater rig.
  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> What format are you storing your music in?  Can you play back 24/96 or higher fidelity?  Thanks.


----------



## grokit

If there's a flatscreen TV or projector in the room you could always run a cable from the Mini to the VGA or HDMI input with the right cable/adapter.
   
  Khollester, check into the TS 5998 and equivalents; in my WA22 anyways they are interchangeable with the 7236 and sound nicer to my ears. Also there are plenty of them :^)


----------



## jerico

My files are all Apple Lossless (some converted from FLAC, like stuff from LINN or HD Tracks). I can play up to 24/192 via USB, although the pre-load times for Pure Music can drag on a bit with those file sizes. That doesn't bother me though.

I have a W4S DAC2.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I disposed all my previous 6DE7 & 6EW7 tubes couple of months back with regrets as I was exploring the 6SN7 option on my WA6SEM. The idea of using various 6SN7 tubes via adapter was dropped almost immediately and rolled back to the stock GE 6EW7 supplied by Jack. I just received a pair of wonderful Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 from eBay and I am happy again.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





outdoorxplorer said:


> I disposed all my previous 6DE7 & 6EW7 tubes couple of months back with regrets as I was exploring the 6SN7 option on my WA6SEM. The idea of using various 6SN7 tubes via adapter was dropped almost immediately and rolled back to the stock GE 6EW7 supplied by Jack. I just received a pair of wonderful Sylvania NOS Fat Bottled 6EW7 from eBay and I am happy again.


 
   
  Now you know why I said the 6SN7 would never be used in my WA6SE along with any adapter. Same goes for my WA5LE, the adapter that is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Glad to hear it is all working out for you.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Yeah, but I have been rather discouraged in my search for power tubes - not much seems to be available. I have found several RCA 6AS7G's, but nothing in matched pairs. Options seem to be good for 6DJ8/6922's. The Sylvania 7236's Jack is selling may be as good as it gets. This is kind of freaking me out thinking I won't be able to keep this thing going in a few years.


 

 There is no chance of that.  There are literally giant mountains of the Russian 6AS7G equivalent, the 6N13S.  You can buy boxes of 100 of them on EBay right now if you were so inclined.
   
  Better yet, you can buy 100% for sure NOS JAN GE 6AS7GA's from Parts Express:
   
  http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=072-612
   
  I bought a sweet nice pair just to have one "on ice".  $20/pair.  Nice tubes.
   
  Over a couple years of looking casually on EBay and other sources, I ended up with several dozen pairs of 6AS7/5998/7236 pairs.  More than I even wanted.  There are plenty of them out there, I assure you.


----------



## khollister

So I did find a matched pair of 5998's at least 
   
  Are the Russian 6H13C's OK sound wise? Most of the tube rolling threads here seem to dismiss them compared to the RCA/TS/GEC options. I also don't recall seeing any comments about the GE JAN 6AS7GA'a either. Been away from tubes for about 15-20 years, so I'm a little paranoid.
   

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


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> 
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## Skylab

Quote: 





khollister said:


> So I did find a matched pair of 5998's at least
> 
> Are the Russian 6H13C's OK sound wise? Most of the tube rolling threads here seem to dismiss them compared to the RCA/TS/GEC options. I also don't recall seeing any comments about the GE JAN 6AS7GA'a either. Been away from tubes for about 15-20 years, so I'm a little paranoid.


 
   
  I don't think the Russian tubes are as good as the US and UK varieties, but they are plenty good enough that you wouldn't need to trash your amp!  Same with the GE 6AS7GA - not my favorite, but great for the money, and to have a back-up pair or three


----------



## khollister

Thanks - I'm sure once I get the WA2 in a couple weeks and I am blown away by how good it sounds with whatever Jack ships it with, I'll relax considerably. One reason I decided to go with the WA2 rather than the WA6SE is it's tendency towards a warm, tubey sound more than the WA6. I figured this would give me a little more latitude in tubes, since it is very easy to make things bright with cables, etc. After describing what I was looking for to Jack, he recommended the 2 instead of the 6, which aligned with other's comments here.
   
  While I like soundstage and transparency, I crave the liquid, lush and sweet character of tubes that I used to get from my Conrad Johnson and Quicksilver Audio stuff back in the Quad ESL-63 days. "Juicy" would be the single most descriptive adjective I could apply to the sound I like.
   
  I was always more of a Conrad Johnson guy than Audio Research. I owned a CV-7 and MV-75 for several years (originally with ProAc Tablettes). Replaced the MV-75 with the Quicksilver monoblocs after I got the Quads
   
  In the mean time I need to fab an RCA breakout box for the Duet to get rid of the breakout cable supplied. I am going to try and fab a small box attached directly to a sub-min D so I just have an inch or two of some left over vintage hookup wire (I still have some solid Wonder Wire as well as the original MIT stranded chassis wire). I'm sure that will help significantly.
   
  My long term DAC plan is either a Metric Halo ULN-2 or Wavelength Brick unless the new Rega DAC gets some good reviews (I always thought my old Rega Planet CDP sounded great).
   

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


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> 
> 
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## mikemalter

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Thanks - I'm sure once I get the WA2 in a couple weeks and I am blown away by how good it sounds with whatever Jack ships it with, I'll relax considerably. One reason I decided to go with the WA2 rather than the WA6SE is it's tendency towards a warm, tubey sound more than the WA6. I figured this would give me a little more latitude in tubes, since it is very easy to make things bright with cables, etc. After describing what I was looking for to Jack, he recommended the 2 instead of the 6, which aligned with other's comments here.
> 
> While I like soundstage and transparency, I crave the liquid, lush and sweet character of tubes that I used to get from my Conrad Johnson and Quicksilver Audio stuff back in the Quad ESL-63 days. "Juicy" would be the single most descriptive adjective I could apply to the sound I like.
> 
> ...


 

 If you get the Wavelength be sure to post impressions.  I have read alot about that DAC, the designer really believes in USB and apperently he has gotten the most out of it than anybody.


----------



## Maxvla

khollister said:


> Just heard from Jack - only 2 Weeks until the WA2 is ready!




Ordered my WA6 12-3-10 and just today is shipped out (12-29-10) and was quoted 2-3 weeks. Might take a bit longer than you are expecting.


----------



## khollister

DAC upgrade is going to have to wait a few months after buying the Woo  I would like to get some feedback on the new Rega before doing anything. 
   
  Gordon is quite a prolific poster over on the Computer Audiophile forum - interesting guy with strong opinions.


----------



## khollister

No problem - not going to sweat another week or so.
  
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


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> 
> 
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## khollister

Jim at Vacuum Tubes Inc. (which is here in Orlando - small world) had 2 pairs of NOS RCA 6AS7G's in boxes for $30 a pair - I bought them both. He has several EZ80's, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for there yet. Also not sure how high end I want to go on the 6DJ8/6922 yet either. 
   
  I figure a pair of the GE 6AS7GA's and maybe a pair of the 6N13/6H13's to try and I'm good on output tubes for quite a while.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


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> 
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----------



## navii

Im a little confused by the impedance selector switch at the back of my WA6. Turns out I was doing the reverse setting for my headphones.

  I sort of discovered this when I was A/B ing my K701s and HD650 on my regular Sony SS surround sound receiver. The HD650s seemed much louder on it at the same volume.

  It made sense to me then (without looking at the back of the WA6 to check the setting) that I would hit the switch to make the K701s louder, or hit it again to make the HD650s quieter. This would sort of volume match the phones to the dial.

  But I have been doing it all wrong it seems. Now the switch (in its correct setting) gives the already louder HD650s even more volume than the K701s.

  Odd thing, when I A/B my headphones on the WA6 without changing the impedance setting, the volume seems the same for both headphones. Well definitely not the big difference I experienced on the Sony.

  Could the Sony receiver be somehow detecting different phones and adjusting impedance on the go?

  How does this Impedance switch work on the WA6? I don't quite understand it.
   
  Which headphones (K701 or HD650) are "louder"?


----------



## SpudHarris

Fellow Woosies, I think I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a WA22 but just wondered if you guys could throw in a few comments based upon your experience.
   
  Are there any UK peeps here who have bought direct from Jack? The reason I ask is I'm concerned that I'll get stung for Customs / VAT (20%) / Admin etc.... Jack offers USPS or EMS to UK so I don't know if that makes a difference.
   
  I have the majority of must have tubes for my WA6 (EML 5U4G Mesh / TS BGRP / Bad Boy Sylvania) so wondered what power tubes are up there with these as the best to have. I've read about GEC6AS7's but I don't know anything about them really, are they new production tubes or NOS?.
   
  Last but not least how much better is the WA22 over the WA6? I'm not balanced at all (yet) so I'm talking s/e only at this point.
   
  Cheers guys.


----------



## grokit

Navii: The HD650 is much more efficient that the K701, it's not all about impedance. The K701 should be on the low setting @62 ohms (but go with high if it sounds better), and the HD650 is definitely high impedance setting @ 300 ohms. The HD650 is definitely louder.
   
  Spud: You have a lot more choices with the 1 watt power tubes than the 2 watt versions, so it really depends on how efficient your headphones are. There was a conversation recently about the higher-gain power tubes in the WA2, that would apply to the WA22 as well.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Fellow Woosies, I think I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a WA22 but just wondered if you guys could throw in a few comments based upon your experience.
> 
> Are there any UK peeps here who have bought direct from Jack? The reason I ask is I'm concerned that I'll get stung for Customs / VAT (20%) / Admin etc.... Jack offers USPS or EMS to UK so I don't know if that makes a difference.
> 
> ...


 

 Spud, you have all the good tubes.  Yes, if you can get a pair of the GEC 6AS7G's that would be great.  I got a pair and love them.  However, I have talked to people who really like the Sylvania 7236's.  What is your taste in music?


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks* Grokit*...
   
*Mike*, I'm really into Ambient Trance (mostly Ultimae Stuff), Psy Dub, IDM, and a little Progressive. To give you an idea I like - Aes Dana, H.U.V.A Network, Hol Baumann, Cell, James Murray, Solar Fields, Shpongle, Bluetech, Astropilot, Krusseldorf, Lemonchill, Phutureprimitive, Pitch Black etc...etc... Electronica that requires speed and extension.
   
  That said I also like Acoustic stuff like Newton Faulkner and KT Tunstall.....
   
  Really, my flavour is EML 5U4G mesh plate + Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boys (love the treble extension and speed on these). So if the WA22 will offer me this ''and more'' then I'm stoked.
   
  Got a reply from Jack tonight and he tells me the WA6 and WA22 are quite a distance apart in terms of SQ. I'm almost there where my funds are concerned so hope to push the button soon


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Navii: The HD650 is much more efficient that the K701, it's not all about impedance. The K701 should be on the low setting @62 ohms (but go with high if it sounds better), and the HD650 is definitely high impedance setting @ 300 ohms. The HD650 is definitely louder.
> 
> Spud: You have a lot more choices with the 1 watt power tubes than the 2 watt versions, so it really depends on how efficient your headphones are. There was a conversation recently about the higher-gain power tubes in the WA2, that would apply to the WA22 as well.


 

 Just to add to this, I personally feel the K701 sounds better on the high impedance setting. Logic dictates the low setting should be better for their 62 ohm impedance, but I feel it sounds better on high.  It seems softer all around on the low setting.  The impedance switch on the WA6 optimizes the transformer for whichever load you are giving it (high impedance or low impedance).


----------



## grokit

Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




   
   
  Seamaster reiterated the same thing about the 50 ohm LCD-2 recently, that it actually sounds better on the high impedance setting out of his WA22.


----------



## Henerenry

Hmmm, yes, how is the impedance switch implemented, is it a different gain stage, or is it in fact seperate windings on the output transfromers?


----------



## jc9394

spudharris said:


> Fellow Woosies, I think I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a WA22 but just wondered if you guys could throw in a few comments based upon your experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 



I upgraded from WA6 maxxed to WA22 maxxed (modded by Dannie01), using SE in and SE out is a big change. Once you use balanced in, even using SE out, like I do now with my D7000, the change is huge. I never compared SE and balanced out using my HD800 but I can assure you that it makes my HD800 sings.

GEC 6AS7G is the best sounding power tubes I heard with WA22, the GEC6080 is my second flavor, which it 1/3 price with 80+% of GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## navii

I need to do some proper testing, but I was getting the feeling that the 701s were a bit grainy on the high setting.
   
  This post: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/183752/does-impedance-affect-sound-quality#post_2196576 seems to validate what I been hearing:
   
  "Yeah, impedance matters, for a variety of reasons. One thing is that unless your amp and your headphone (and cable) are impedance matched, you're going to get loss which gets bounced around. I don't know at what point that becomes audible, but I do know at work that they make sure to impedance match everything because in high frequency (e.g. beyond audio band) it does matter tremendously."


----------



## navii

oops! dp


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have to say that I'm still very happy with the 6SN7 adapters I got from 2359Glenn on eBay for my WA6, and with the Sylvania VT-231 I haven't given a single thought of going back to the 6DE7 I used before.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> GEC 6AS7G is the best sounding power tubes I heard with WA22, the GEC6080 is my second flavor, which it 1/3 price with 80+% of GEC 6AS7G.


 


  I can second this!  The GEC 6080s have been my favorite power tubes for the past six months or so, even better than the Tung Sol 7236s.
   
  I had the opportunity to try the GEC 6AS7Gs for a few days and they sound very similar to the GEC 6080s.  The only changes I noticed were a slightly smoother high-end and a slightly larger soundstage.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 AD,
   
  My thoughts exactly about the GEC's.  A smoother high-end and yes the soundstage/presentation was a little larger and maybe more holographic.  What drivers were you using when you had the 6AS7G's in?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Black glass Ken Rad VT-231.  I've been using them exclusively ever since I got them a few months ago.
   
  I really want to try out a pair of the National Union VT-231s too.  I read that the sound is similar to the Ken Rads but a bit darker.


----------



## Icenine2

Having owned the WA22 for all of a week has me wondering what a WA5/WA5LE would sound like since the 22 is Nirvana.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Having owned the WA22 for all of a week has me wondering what a WA5/WA5LE would sound like since the 22 is Nirvana.


 

 Probably Para-nirvana.  But we need SillySally to tell us about it!


----------



## Icenine2

The more I listen to the WA22 it just reveals poorly recorded/mastered/remastered music.  The MFLS Gold disc of DSOTM is really good.


----------



## grokit

It has been said here that a stock WA5/LE will equal or out-perform a maxxed-out WA22 tubes and all, making the LE quite a bargain IMO, and giving me a severe case of upgraditis.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It has been said here that a stock WA5/LE *will equal *or out-perform a maxxed-out WA22 tubes and all, making the LE quite a bargain IMO, and giving me a severe case of upgraditis.


 

 Whew. "_*Equal*_" is the operative word here. I can breath a little easier now. Until....


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It has been said here that a stock WA5/LE will equal or out-perform a maxxed-out WA22 tubes and all, making the LE quite a bargain IMO, and giving me a severe case of upgraditis.


 


   While that may be true, what do we do now that we have all balanced from source to cans?


----------



## nututubes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I can second this!  The GEC 6080s have been my favorite power tubes for the past six months or so, even better than the Tung Sol 7236s.
> 
> I had the opportunity to try the GEC 6AS7Gs for a few days and they sound very similar to the GEC 6080s.  The only changes I noticed were a slightly smoother high-end and a slightly larger soundstage.


 


 I'm glad you liked the those GEC 6AS7Gs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Many people as you have said describe the sound as smoother, maybe that's what my older ears don't like...too smooth is a straight line on a graph to me. The 7236 puts more info, more ups and downs on the graph so to speak. I can hear more (musically speaking). That doesn't mean the 6080s sound muffled at all.
   
   
  I now have both Sylvania and Tung-Sol 7236 tubes. They both sound nice paired with the Treasure 6SN7s and the EML mesh. I listen to mostly classical type accoustic music. Except when I cue the 24/192 DSoTM needle drop that someone was kind enough to provide


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Get music that is 192 kHz 24 bit!


----------



## grokit

I'm very happy with my WA22 balanced system, I would get a new TT (and an Ed8 before a TT) before I would get the WA5 but I do like them. The nice thing is they use the same/similar tubes, so I can learn about which ones I like best on the WA22 (only buying one rectifier at a time) and take some with me if I ever upgrade.
   
  I could always use my sources single-ended, I would probably change some things around though if I ever migrated back to single ended but who knows if it will ever become a real plan/priority. I would also have to change out my rack and isolation platform, cables, etc.
   
  Still I would love to hear some Klipschorns out of the back of a WA5, that would be an awesome system


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Any links?  I have only some hi-res music purchased from HD Tracks and Linn, that would be great if there is more place to download 192/24, thanks.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Still I would love to hear some Klipschorns out of the back of a WA5, that would be an awesome system


 

 How about some Decware ERR radials?  I have some of those coming next week.  That was my main justification for getting a WA5 - speaker amp also.  I have been trying to find reasonable cost speakers that sound as good as my headphones but that has been a challenge.  The Decwares will be my third pair to try.... high efficiency requirement does narrow the field a good bit.   Maybe I should have just found some vintage Klipschorns???


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> How about some Decware ERR radials?  I have some of those coming next week.  That was my main justification for getting a WA5 - speaker amp also.  I have been trying to find reasonable cost speakers that sound as good as my headphones but that has been a challenge.  The Decwares will be my third pair to try.... high efficiency requirement does narrow the field a good bit.   Maybe I should have just found some vintage Klipschorns???


 


  I personally always have found the K-horns a little bit out of balance in their tonality. Back in the late 80s and early 90s I was into Klipsch a lot and even that I had the chance to buy the K-Horns I went with the Cornwall. I find the Cornwall a lot more smooth and balanced among all the Klipsch Heritage models.
  Another good brand to try that is design for tube amps is Coincident Speakers.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Having owned the WA22 for all of a week has me wondering what a WA5/WA5LE would sound like since the 22 is Nirvana.


 


  What I can tell you is that I had the chance to listen to the WA22 and the WA5-LE basically side by side last June at Canjam. Since most of my headphones are balanced and both of my Hi-Fi systems are fully balanced I was thinking in a balanced tube amplifier (WA22). Listening to the WA22 and WA5-LE with my own headphones I was able to clearly determine that the WA5-LE is superior even being Single Ended.
   
  Jack and I had a long conversation about a special project to make Balanced WA5-LE which will required 3 units (1 Power Supply and 2 Amplification Units). Basically it has to be a monoblock design with share power supply. The problem was in order to make it right with the parts upgrade, upgraded tubes and customization we were talking about $9,000-$10,000. So after hitting that wall Jack and I talked about the differences between going balanced with the WA22 (fully loaded) or Single Ended with the WA5-LE (fully loaded). Jack's opinion was that the WA5-LE is a better amplifier and my listening concurred with it.
   
  2 weeks after Canjam I ordered my WA5-LE and have not look back.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Another good brand to try that is design for tube amps is Coincident Speakers.


 

 Coincident's were one of the pair that I gave up on.  Maybe just the particular model (Triumph Extreme II) but they were just a tad shouty with vocals.  Very close to what I wanted but not quite.


----------



## Icenine2

NuTubes,
   
  If you ever did move to a WA5/5LE you can use the RCA ouputs on your DAC.  You have the Senn HD800's yes?  Pop the old cable back on and you are ready to rock!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Coincident's were one of the pair that I gave up on.  Maybe just the particular model (Triumph Extreme II) but they were just a tad shouty with vocals.  Very close to what I wanted but not quite.


 


  The ones I have experience with are the Partial Eclipse and Total Eclipse. IMO both were great speakers.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> NuTubes,
> 
> If you ever did move to a WA5/5LE you can use the RCA ouputs on your DAC.  You have the Senn HD800's yes?  Pop the old cable back on and you are ready to rock!


 


  I would recommend him to get a DHC Complement or AphroditeCu29.com Zeus. Both are OCC copper and really make the HD800 sound incredible. They improve its bass providing more control and depth, make the midrange more liquid and smooth out the highs without taking away the spark.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  You don't have to go vintage, Klipsch still sells them directly online, they're pretty reasonable really:
  http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/klipschorn-overview/

   
  But they really need to be in the right kind of room, as they are made to use the walls/corners of the listening space. My roommate in college brought them into the living room (where he was sleeping) in our one-bedroom apartment, and I developed a real taste for their sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've done some thinking about what upgrade path I would take given the opportunity, and what always stops me from considering the WA5-LE are the hidden costs.  Technically it is only $600 more than a WA22 if you take no part upgrades (which is temptation one I might add), but what tube addict is going to leave the stock tubes in the amp long term?  So you have to figure another $600 for a pair of EML 5U4G, and another $700 for a pair of EML 300B to take the amp up to it's potential.  Even without springing for the expensive parts upgrade package the WA5-LE is now twice as expensive as the WA22, which would inherit all my 6SN7 tubes and the EML 274B from my current WA6.  I would only need to spend a couple hundred finding a good pair of 6AS7G and Tung sol 5998 tubes to be satisfied.  I imagine a decked out WA5 sounds considerably better, but the price goes well into "can't even consider it" territory for me sadly.  For those who can, enjoy a song or two for my sake as well!


----------



## SpudHarris

Xcalibur, that is amazing.....
   
  I have been having the same conflict and have resigned myself to the fact that I will never (unless I win the lottery) be able to afford or find room for the WA5 LE. If money were no object obviously the story would be different. I am saving towards the WA22 and should be able to pull the trigger soon and like you it will inherit all or most of my WA6 tubes and I will only need to shell out for a decent set of 6AS7G and Tung-Sol 5998 tubes.
   
  Jack tells me that against the WA22 the WA6 is considered entry level, so with that in mind I have high hopes that I will be happy with the WA22 coz to me the WA6 is sooooo much better than anything I've had before.


----------



## mikemalter

I'm with X and Spud. 
   
  Cost for the 5 was prohibitive for me.  With the WA22, I have more money to spend on tube rolling, better headphone and ect.  If I would have gotten the 5, I would never have been happy without all of the hardware upgrades; what to say of tube and other costs. 
   
  The WA22 is a really good starting off point.  Already my audio experience with the WA22 is better than it has ever been, and I am totally enjoying all of my music.  Right now the WA22 is just the right balance while I gain more experience in the headphone arena.


----------



## mikemalter

Am looking at music servers.  Using Media Monkey presently and just downloaded the trial version of J River.
   
  Anybody have thoughts about media servers for windows and what they like/dislike?
   
  Seems like J River is prettier, and at first blush, I think audio quality is better.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## khollister

I'm running a Mac myself, but J River is the SW I see mentioned the most frequently for Windows-based music servers over at Computer Audiophiles, so that would be the way to go I would think.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Am looking at music servers.  Using Media Monkey presently and just downloaded the trial version of J River.
> 
> Anybody have thoughts about media servers for windows and what they like/dislike?
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

I have been using the Squeezebox/Squeeze server for a number of years now and love it.  You can run both the hardware (Touch) and software (Softsqueeze) versions to play the music.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





khollister said:


> I'm running a Mac myself, but J River is the SW I see mentioned the most frequently for Windows-based music servers over at Computer Audiophiles, so that would be the way to go I would think.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have been using the Squeezebox/Squeeze server for a number of years now and love it.  You can run both the hardware (Touch) and software (Softsqueeze) versions to play the music.


 

 Thanks guys. 
   
  Just wanted to check in with others as the J River stuff sounds a lit better than Media Monkey and wanted to hear what others thought.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike -
   
  I use Sqeezecenter to serve FLAC files to 4 Squeezeboxes throughout my house.  I really like the way it works and the sound is very good.  Last week I decided to spend some time testing out the USB input on my W4S DAC so I spend quite a bit of time with Foobar and J River.  At first I really liked J River because of the user interface however I found a skin for Foobar that I actually like better than the J River interface (much simpler than J River but a very clean and usable skin).  I spent quite a bit of time switching between the players and trying Kernel Streaming vs. WASAPI.  I honestly couldn't tell a difference in sound between J River and Foobar.  However J River seemed to play louder at the same volume level on my DAC.  I'm still torn between whether to stick with Kernel Streaming or WASAPI but the guys at W4S recommend I use KS so that's what I've been going with.
   
  In the end I think I will stick with Foobar since it is free and endlessly configurable and to me sounds identical to J River when level matched.  Here is a screenshot of the skin I'm using (can't remember the name of it right now).


----------



## Silent One

To Woozies Worldwide - Happy New Year from North America!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Mike -
> 
> I use Sqeezecenter to serve FLAC files to 4 Squeezeboxes throughout my house.  I really like the way it works and the sound is very good.  Last week I decided to spend some time testing out the USB input on my W4S DAC so I spend quite a bit of time with Foobar and J River.  At first I really liked J River because of the user interface however I found a skin for Foobar that I actually like better than the J River interface (much simpler than J River but a very clean and usable skin).  I spent quite a bit of time switching between the players and trying Kernel Streaming vs. WASAPI.  I honestly couldn't tell a difference in sound between J River and Foobar.  However J River seemed to play louder at the same volume level on my DAC.  I'm still torn between whether to stick with Kernel Streaming or WASAPI but the guys at W4S recommend I use KS so that's what I've been going with.
> 
> In the end I think I will stick with Foobar since it is free and endlessly configurable and to me sounds identical to J River when level matched.  Here is a screenshot of the skin I'm using (can't remember the name of it right now).


 

 Thanks for sharing the details of your setup. 
   
  I'm currently using WASAPI Event, which after trial and error, sounds the best for FLAC. It loads the entire track into memory before it plays which is really nice.
   
  M4A or ACC (Apple lossless) will play through a different plugin and I am trying to figure that one out.
   
  I really like that I can go through a J River output plugin and source at 96 kHz 24bit.
   
  I'm finally hearing real differences between hirez and apple lossless music, and am just chomping at the bit to get a PWD with the bridge. 
  
  I know what you mean about being torn over a setting.  I think those guys at W4S know what works best with their equipment.  I can see in the screenshot that you are outputting 96 kHz from Foobar.  What kind of audio settings do they have?  That is a really nice clean UI.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> M4A or ACC (Apple lossless) will play through a different plugin and I am trying to figure that one out.
> 
> I really like that I can go through a J River output plugin and source at 96 kHz 24bit.
> 
> ...


 


 Just to clarify, ACC is a lossy codec; Apple Lossless is ALAC.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Like your new Avatar.
   
  Yes, I am glad you put that out there.  It's good to be careful about the details.  In J River, they say that M4A is ACC. I might have misread that, but isn't M4A lossless?  I'm going to have to go back and check this now.


----------



## grokit

Thanks, it's just my Christmas avatar, due to be put back into storage soon along with the fiber-optic tree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  On my Mac the ALAC files in iTunes that I've ripped from the CD have the .m4a suffix on the desktop. I'll have to check my Windows laptop and see if it's different. I can boot this one into Windows but it's all AIFF over there


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've done some thinking about what upgrade path I would take given the opportunity, and what always stops me from considering the WA5-LE are the hidden costs.  Technically it is only $600 more than a WA22 if you take no part upgrades (which is temptation one I might add), but what tube addict is going to leave the stock tubes in the amp long term?  So you have to figure another $600 for a pair of EML 5U4G, and another $700 for a pair of EML 300B to take the amp up to it's potential.  Even without springing for the expensive parts upgrade package the WA5-LE is now twice as expensive as the WA22, which would inherit all my 6SN7 tubes and the EML 274B from my current WA6.  I would only need to spend a couple hundred finding a good pair of 6AS7G and Tung sol 5998 tubes to be satisfied.  I imagine a decked out WA5 sounds considerably better, but the price goes well into "can't even consider it" territory for me sadly.  For those who can, enjoy a song or two for my sake as well!


 

 I totally hear you, believe me.  But I can assure you, you do not have to have ALL of the high end tubes to enjoy the WA5 / LE.  My 300bs are still Sophia Princess.  Not sure where I will go from there.  I do have TSBGRP 6sn7 and EML 5u4g now, but before I got those I had Sylvania VT 231s and some $20 Tung Sol 5u4gb and used them for a long time and had great sound!  Before the WA5, I spent quite a few years on the Audiogon "merry go-round" with speaker rigs/ amps / preamps / etc. and finally decided to simplify.  I sold my pre and speaker amp to get the WA5 and was blown away by headphone sound with the new flagship phones of the last few years.  Never imagined that headphones could ever sound so good.  Just need to get a great speaker match but hopefully the decwares will work out.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Am looking at music servers.  Using Media Monkey presently and just downloaded the trial version of J River.
> 
> Anybody have thoughts about media servers for windows and what they like/dislike?
> 
> ...


 
  J River is one of only two media players I have found that allow the user to write the wave output directly to the soundcard driver instead of sending it through DirectSound (the other is Winamp).  To my ears this is the only method which produces the same sound quality as what I hear from my dedicated CD player, all other media players and all other output methods produce something that sounds smeared and soft as though it has been resampled up then back down again.  For the record this shouldn't be happening no matter what since my particular soundcard handles 44.1Khz directly as opposed to the 48Khz that is more common with computers.  It is *incredibly* hard to find information on this subject that is useful, but from what I could gather the windows Kmixer and Directsound do "stuff" to the audio signal which degrades it, and nobody ever seems to know exactly what that is.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My very limited understanding is that because J River gives you the option to use WASAPI Event, all the Windows problems are avoided, and it's as direct as software can be with a device.  As I tried all of the other output options, the benefits of using WASAPI Event was clearly audible to me.  And I do get that smeared and soft sound you are talking about.
   
  I'm thinking that I'm going to be keeping it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Extensions inside my iTunes database:
   
  AAC - m4a
  ALAC - alac.m4a
   
  Least with my files anyway, PC and Mac alike...


----------



## navii

I was taking bored so I took some pics of my WA6.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They're gorgeous... always wanted a pair! While in college I read quite a bit about them. Also read a lot about McIntosh systems at that time. Both remained unseen and unheard by me until one fine day, as luck would have it, I came face-to-face with both of them at the same time. Found myself in someone's listening room, enjoying Champagne among a rack full of McIntosh gear, backed by a huge pair of lovely wood finished Cornerhorns.
   
  Reception aside, I did two hours of critical listening before settling down with some French bubbly. I was floored... and fascinated. I kept peering into the sides and back of the speakers while the owner proudly explained their concept. A few months after that experience, someone showed me their Nakamichi Dragon setup. I haven't been right since! I have been lusting after both vintages from that point on no matter what other gear I acquire.
   
  Thanks for your pix & post, it felt good to reminisce.


----------



## Silent One

New Year's Eve~
   
  Earlier in the day I purchased Pure Music v1.7 for music playback on the Mac/Woo combo. Loaded my playlist with lots and lots of vintage Karen Mok. She was deliciously fun even before the upgrade. And now? Mmmm...


----------



## mikemalter

Sometimes it seems to me that the Mac is better for music.  I have never had a Mac, but I get the impression you get more choices and they are of high quality.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> New Year's Eve~
> 
> Earlier in the day I purchased Pure Music v1.7 for music playback on the Mac/Woo combo. Loaded my playlist with lots and lots of vintage Karen Mok. She was deliciously fun even before the upgrade. And now? Mmmm...


 
   
  Karen Mok? You're Chinese or you just like some Chinese ladys' songs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sometimes it seems to me that the Mac is better for music.  I have never had a Mac, but I get the impression you get more choices and they are of high quality.


 

  I did heard a lot nice impression about Mac and Weiss D/A combo or others with firewire input, too. And also some say the Mac with Amarra sound very great even in a Mini Version.


----------



## Icenine2

Although cost is an issue I will say we........and I mean the wee Woo folk here..........are impatient.  I include myself as well.  When I bought the WA22 I didn't even wait minutes before starting to order new tubes.  Having broke in the amp for about 8 hours w/stock tubes I could have been happy for quite a while with those until I upgraded.  I immediately popped in the EML and Shuguang Treasures from their respective boxes (BTW the EML box is really cool while the Treasures box looks like it was stored in an Indiana Jones style warehouse for 50 years).  The 5/5LE I'm sure could be run on stock tubes for quite some time and sound great.  So then it's just a save and wait to buy the new 5LE tubes since I don't think Jack sends them out with junk tubes laughing an evil laugh.  Then the last hurdle for some would be the dreaded "wife factor".  Mrs. K here has proclaimed the WA22 looks like "some sort of science experiment".  I can only laugh_ my_ evil laugh thinking of the proclamations about a twin chassis WA5LE!!!!


----------



## Icenine2

6 Moons did a review of Channel D Pure Music and dumped his Amarra.


----------



## grokit

Is Pure Music single license or can I install it on all of my Macs? Is there an iTunes/Windows version? I run 5 different iTunes platforms...
   
  edit: Never mind, I just found that the license will run on 8 machines but I don't think it "does Windows". Looks nice though, I think I will get it as I have been considering Amarra Lite which needs a frickkin' dongle and is only for one computer. It will run on all three Macs though, even the one running OS10.5.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Although cost is an issue I will say we........and I mean the wee Woo folk here..........are impatient.  I include myself as well.  When I bought the WA22 I didn't even wait minutes before starting to order new tubes.  Having broke in the amp for about 8 hours w/stock tubes I could have been happy for quite a while with those until I upgraded.  I immediately popped in the EML and Shuguang Treasures from their respective boxes (BTW the EML box is really cool while the Treasures box looks like it was stored in an Indiana Jones style warehouse for 50 years).  The 5/5LE I'm sure could be run on stock tubes for quite some time and sound great.  So then it's just a save and wait to buy the new 5LE tubes since I don't think Jack sends them out with junk tubes laughing an evil laugh.  Then the last hurdle for some would be the dreaded "wife factor".  Mrs. K here has proclaimed the WA22 looks like "some sort of science experiment".  I can only laugh_ my_ evil laugh thinking of the proclamations about a twin chassis WA5LE!!!!


 
   
  The Wife Factor indeed.....
   
  I really don't have room for the WA5 and that's me talkin not her indoors. But when I showed her my next significant purchase (WA22) she thought I was mad spending so much money on it, if only she knew what I'd spent on tubes this past year I'd never hear the last of it. I will definately be happy with the WA22 as I just can't afford and don't have room for the 5LE period. I will however be upgrading sources etc to get every ounce from it. I am on a budget though so the DAC Magic is looking good at the moment and initially from the USB of my netbook, I will build from there.
   
  I am getting very exited at the prospect of the WA22  I look at it daily and drool, one day my precious you will be mine haha.


----------



## WindyCityCy

WA22 will be your precious soon!


----------



## grokit

Attention WA22 users, balanced pre-amp for sale (not mine lol):
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/526623/balanced-tube-preamp-ys-audio-a2-se-pics


----------



## khollister

Pure Music can be used on multiple computers, but I have spent hours today going back and forth between PM 1.7 and Amarra Mini 2.1.1 (I have a 14 day unlimited trial with my iLok). While I think the price of Amarra is borderline criminal, I am definitely convinced it sounds better, especially when you use the playlist mode and not drive it from iTunes. PM seems airier and more spacious at first, but there is something wrong with the timbre of instruments - the harmonic texture is off. Amarra is clearly better on my rig if you get past the HiFi wow factor and listen to the dimensionality of individual instruments and the harmonic structure of them. PM ends up sounding "digital" to me compared to Amarra. And while my system is pretty good, it is far from being state of the art in resolution.
   
  The ultimate test was when I quit concentrating on minute changes and listened to a song while I was working on something else at the other computer. With PM I all of a sudden was drawn back to the sound as being artificial and a little fatiguing. With Amarra, I forgot about the equipment for a few minutes and just enjoyed the music - when I snapped back to attention and listened to the sound (as opposed to the music), I was struck by how natural it still sounded. 
   
  Sorry about your wallet, but Amarra is the superior player IMHO. I'm tempted to use the tubes versus transistors analogy - while there are good SS amps and not so good tune amps, the difference here is similar to the stereotypical tubes vs SS sound.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Is Pure Music single license or can I install it on all of my Macs? Is there an iTunes/Windows version? I run 5 different iTunes platforms...
> 
> edit: Never mind, I just found that the license will run on 8 machines but I don't think it "does Windows". Looks nice though, I think I will get it as I have been considering Amarra Lite which needs a frickkin' dongle and is only for one computer. It will run on all three Macs though, even the one running OS10.5.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've found myself wondering what kind of tubes come stock with the WA5.  The 300B tubes at the very least can't be NOS as there likely are none left that are affordable enough to send out with the amp like that.  They must be Shuguangs or something.  This is not a slight against Jack in any way, but to be honest I do feel the stock tubes which came with my WA6 were junk compared to what I have for the amp now.  The Russian recitifer went into the garbage about a month after I got the amp because it sounded so bad compared to what I had been buying, and the RCA 6FD7 output tubes had major noise problems, the only pair of output tubes I've ever had with audible microphonics wile playing back music.  I also find myself wondering how much closer the WA6 gets to the WA22 in sound after adopting the 6SN7 output tube.  The amp takes on a whole different level of resolution and depth compared to the 6DE7 family tubes, though I've discovered they really need the EML rectifier to show that potential.  I wasn't especially impressed by how my 6DE7, 6EW7 and 6FD7 tubes sounded with the EML in comparison to the 6SN7.  Using lesser rectifiers the comparison is closer admittedly.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Although cost is an issue I will say we........and I mean the wee Woo folk here..........are impatient.  I include myself as well.  When I bought the WA22 I didn't even wait minutes before starting to order new tubes.  Having broke in the amp for about 8 hours w/stock tubes I could have been happy for quite a while with those until I upgraded.  I immediately popped in the EML and Shuguang Treasures from their respective boxes (BTW the EML box is really cool while the Treasures box looks like it was stored in an Indiana Jones style warehouse for 50 years).  The 5/5LE I'm sure could be run on stock tubes for quite some time and sound great.  So then it's just a save and wait to buy the new 5LE tubes since I don't think Jack sends them out with junk tubes laughing an evil laugh.  Then the last hurdle for some would be the dreaded "wife factor".  Mrs. K here has proclaimed the WA22 looks like "some sort of science experiment".  I can only laugh_ my_ evil laugh thinking of the proclamations about a twin chassis WA5LE!!!!


 

 I am afraid to turn myself loose with a 5LE.  I would just have to get all of the hardware upgrades, and then I know I would not be happy until I had the best tubes.  I think it's definitly safer for me to stay with the WA22 for a while.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 X2!
   
  I can't believe I am considering selling my iPad and spending considerably more for than a new Schiit Lyr to buy four more pieces of glass (you know what I am talking about lol). I feel like we are all part of some kind of weird cult sometimes on this thread!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed! And I too have stayed away from 300B amps for the same reason - I can't imagine the damage I would do to my wallet if I started buying 300B tubes...


----------



## pigmode

As soon as my headphone system is complete, my plan is to initiate the start of a speaker system. The WA5 is about 3rd or 4th on the list, and who knows, it may very well become my main hp amps as well. As far as tube costs, the current prices for DH-SET NOS tubes are for me beyond my limit.
   
  For my last 2A5/45 SET amp, I had 3 pairs of NOS RCA 45, and 5-6 NOS RCA 2A3s (Cunninghams, Globes) which I paid about $3000+. With todays current production high quality 300B tubes, that would probably translate to perhaps 3-4 pair.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sometimes it seems to me that the Mac is better for music.  I have never had a Mac, but I get the impression you get more choices and they are of high quality.


 

 I too, had the same impression. Though, I was content to push the 'Windows' car down the Av until a better ride came along. Or at least until the wheels came off. I had already grown tired of the Windows architecture and how the machine processes/plays audio and video, overall design and how it operates. A new Mac wasn't even in the budget when I ordered my Woo. Awaiting delivery on the amp is what finally pushed me - I wanted a clean break and took it! Ain't looked back since.
   
  Periodically, I'll venture over to Windows World via Boot Camp when I want to hear 192/24 kHz files. Macs are limited to 96/24 on their Digital-Out. It's up to third-parties to overcome this. My DAC (like many) has limited Mac support - it's mainly written for Windows and gets the full 192 kHz resolution there. Since I had the DAC before the Mac... oh well. Next DAC purchase though...
   
  I am pleased with the audio options for OS X (and the way Unix works). I get very good playback on the Windows side. But getting those results to me are still hokey and annoying.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 "Karen Mok?" Without a doubt, so very sexy! Admission Alert: Great singer? Fair. Great dancer?? Fair. So what's her appeal (besides good looks)? She has the Three E's - Emotes, Engaging & Entertaining. And have since acquired a taste for her vocally. "You're Chinese or you just like some Chinese ladies' songs?" PM sent...


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I have a very faint hum coming from my WA6SE.  Not audbile when even the quietest tracks are playing, but I can hear it when I pause a track, or when nothing is playing.  Very faint, but there.
   
  All of my gear (amp, dac and CD player) is plugged into a Monster Power conditioner, which is then plugged into the wall outlet.  I've checked each piece of gear, and have narrowed it down to the amp.  
   
  I've managed to eliminate the hum entirely by using a 3 prong to 2 prong ground lift adapter;  I plug it into the end of the AC cord on the WA6SE, and then plug the adapter into the Monster Power conditioner.  Now everything is dead silent.
   
  The question is, is this safe?  The power conditioner is plugged into the wall with the proper 3 prong plug, and everything seems to be running fine.  I'm wondering if there is a better/safer/proper way to eliminate the ground loop hum I'm getting.  As I said above, it is almost unnoticeable, but I find myself listening for it even when it's not audible.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I have a very faint hum coming from my WA6SE.  Not audbile when even the quietest tracks are playing, but I can hear it when I pause a track, or when nothing is playing.  Very faint, but there.
> 
> All of my gear (amp, dac and CD player) is plugged into a Monster Power conditioner, which is then plugged into the wall outlet.  I've checked each piece of gear, and have narrowed it down to the amp.
> 
> ...


 

 If you remove the Monster power conditioner from the equation, do you still get a hum?  Is it a steady hum, or does it cycle?


----------



## SpudHarris

Does the SQ suffer using a Squeezebox?
   
  At present I connect my imod directly to the rear of my WA6 but will be getting a WA22 soon and am contemplating the following options.... All my tunes are on my PC upstairs and this is where I sync my imod rip tunes etc. I also have a netbook (no music on it yet) which I use to surf whilst chilling etc of an evening.
   
  Should I?
   
  Stream from my PC via Squeezebox > DACmagic > WA22?
  OR
  Put tunes on my netbook and via USB > DACmagic > WA22?
   
  I guess the easiest would be to keep using the imod and slickest would be the Squeezebox option with my existing PC collection but I'm concerned about any loss of SQ. Any advice greatly appreciated as usual


----------



## Icenine2

Xcalibur mentioned that the tubes shipped with his WA6 were junk and not to slight Jack.  I would believe tubes sold with the amps keep the costs down and let 90% of us just go ahead and buy what we discuss ad infinitum here: roll tubes.  Even if Jack sold these w/EML's and Shu's as stock there would be a great contingent who wouldn't like them.  I do think the stock tubes with my WA22 were just fine although not as cool looking to me as the EML and Shu's I have now.
   
  About 5LE and my real reason not to buy one: my impatience wouldn't let me buy one without the "parts upgrade".  I say it would have taken up room but I'm sure that could have been worked out.  Tubes expensive: yes but living with the stock tubes and waiting to buy the new ones wouldn't have been all that long.  Tops a year. Impatience is what got me.  I did email Jack when I was driving myself nuts with my decision and he told me the stock 5LE would still outperform the 22 and the upgrade wasn't a trump over the stock.  So the real cost was $600 more but all I could see was parts upgrade+tube upgrade=2 x cost of a WA22.
   
  Karen Mok?  I don't know who she is but the best singer who danced I ever saw was, get this, Joan Baez!?!?  I saw her with Bob Dylan's Rolling Thunder.  She comes out in this red jumpsuit and starts to dance and..................it was incredible.  You sort of cringe at first thinking this is going to be some "star embarrassment moment but turns into Napoleon Dynamite instead!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I have an iMod, Squeezebox Touch, and Laptop that I have done extensive listening from through a couple of DACs (PS Audio DL3 Cullen 4 mods and W4S DAC2) into a WA22 with 2 sets of headphones (HD800, D7000 - both balanced) .  In my opinion the best sound results were as follows.
   
  6) iMod through DL3
  5) iMod through DAC2
  4) Laptop playing Foobar through DL3
  3) Touch through DL3
  1) Touch through DAC2 - tie
  1) Laptop through DAC2 - tie
   
  There may be a slight difference between 1 and 2 but they are close enough to call it a tie and the sound quality is amazing to my ears.  I prefer to use the Touch as I love the interface and occasionally listen to Pandora, etc.  The Touch maxes out at 24/96 which is fine for every album I own except 1 and it is very easy to down-convert that album to 24/96 with dBpoweramp.

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Does the SQ suffer using a Squeezebox?
> 
> At present I connect my imod directly to the rear of my WA6 but will be getting a WA22 soon and am contemplating the following options.... All my tunes are on my PC upstairs and this is where I sync my imod rip tunes etc. I also have a netbook (no music on it yet) which I use to surf whilst chilling etc of an evening.
> 
> ...


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks WindyCityCy 
   
  I am on the brink of ordering the Duet + DACmagic but pinching £460 from my WA22 fund has scuppered my plans slightly.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Thanks WindyCityCy
> 
> I am on the brink of ordering the Duet + DACmagic but pinching £460 from my WA22 fund has scuppered my plans slightly.


 

 Squeezebox Duet can't play 24/96 files if you are interested in HDTracks, etc.  I would recommend the Touch if you go the Squeezebox route.  I have 2 Touches and 2 SB3s and the Touch UI and fidelity is much better.  Unless you have a lead on a modified Duet which may be better (I have only read about the modded Squeezeboxes).


----------



## jc9394

spudharris said:


> Thanks WindyCityCy
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 


For some reason, I never like Dacmagic with WA6 but did not get a chance to try it with WA22.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> If you remove the Monster power conditioner from the equation, do you still get a hum?  Is it a steady hum, or does it cycle?


 
  Thanks for the suggestion, but no, it's still there no matter what.  I've disconnected all sources, taken the power conditioner out, etc.  Even if I just plug the Woo straight into the wall with nothing else connected except headphones, there is still a very faint hum.
   
  It is steady and continuous.  No cycling.  It is there no matter what position the volume control is in.  And actually, now that I've checked it out and listened carefully, adding the 3 to 2 pin adapter does not eliminate it.  It's still there.  I've tried changing power tubes, and rectifiers, but it's always the same.  I think it's probably normal.  
   
  I did have an extremely loud hum a few months ago, and it was caused by me, using 6FD7 tubes briefly, and my amp was not new enough (February 2010) to have been able to handle those tubes.  I sent it in for repair, and to have the modifications done so it could use those tubes.  When I got it back, it had been repaired, but the loud hum was still there, so I had to send it in again.  Jack Woo said they had checked it after they did the repair and mods, and that it was fine before they shipped it back to me.  
   
  After sending it in the 2nd time, it came back working fine, like it is now, but I have noticed this very faint hum for quite awhile, so it may have always been there.  Or, changing some of the parts inside to allow the amp to accept the 6FD7 type tubes may have introduced this hum; I don't know.  Actually, I didn't even like the 6FD7 sound, and haven't used those tubes since.  
   
  As I said, this hum is very faint, and if I'm not listening for it, either between tracks, or when the music is paused, I can't hear it at all, so it doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of the amp.  It still sounds great to me.  I just thought there might be a way to eliminate it completely, but now I don't think so.  I'd appreciate any suggestions anyone might have, though.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





pigmode said:


> As soon as my headphone system is complete, my plan is to initiate the start of a speaker system. The WA5 is about 3rd or 4th on the list, and who knows, it may very well become my main hp amps as well. As far as tube costs, the current prices for DH-SET NOS tubes are for me beyond my limit.
> 
> For my last 2A5/45 SET amp, I had 3 pairs of NOS RCA 45, and 5-6 NOS RCA 2A3s (Cunninghams, Globes) which I paid about $3000+. With todays current production high quality 300B tubes, that would probably translate to perhaps 3-4 pair.


 


  It'd be interested to see how WA5 holds up as a speaker amp.


----------



## wind016

You should give a listen to Tanya Chua and Olivia Ong if you haven't had the chance. They are by far some of the best vocals and most talented in Asia.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Karen Mok?" Without a doubt, so very sexy! Admission Alert: Great singer? Fair. Great dancer?? Fair. So what's her appeal (besides good looks)? She has the Three E's - Emotes, Engaging & Entertaining. And have since acquired a taste for her vocally. "You're Chinese or you just like some Chinese ladies' songs?" PM sent...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That the hum goes away when you lift the ground tells me that it's not your equipment.  The last time I had one of these problems, I started swapping interconnects and then the problem went away.  I got a few pair of the Cardas braided interconnects and my hum went away.  For me there was some mismatch between gear and the braided interconnects solved the problem.
   
  It may be worth the time working on to solve because you tend to hear more with headphone amps.  You may want to try the cheapest interconnects possible from Radio Shack just to see if a change-up in interconnects help.


----------



## dminches

It definitely sounds like a ground problem in your electrical system.  Do you have cable TV?  Those systems are notorious for ground loop issues.  If there is any way to disconnect your cable connections that would tell you if that's the culprit.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for sharing. Will research and listen up later tonight.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> It definitely sounds like a ground problem in your electrical system.  Do you have cable TV?  Those systems are notorious for ground loop issues.  If there is any way to disconnect your cable connections that would tell you if that's the culprit.


 

 +1
  The mere touching the coax will give it up (grounding issue or no?).


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


mikemalter said:


> That the hum goes away when you lift the ground tells me that it's not your equipment.  The last time I had one of these problems, I started swapping interconnects and then the problem went away.  I got a few pair of the Cardas braided interconnects and my hum went away.  For me there was some mismatch between gear and the braided interconnects solved the problem.
> 
> It may be worth the time working on to solve because you tend to hear more with headphone amps.  You may want to try the cheapest interconnects possible from Radio Shack just to see if a change-up in interconnects help.


 
   
  Actually, I mentioned in my last post that I have now determined that lifting the ground does not eliminate the hum; I thought it did at first, but after checking it out further, I can still hear it.  I have also tried several different pairs of interconnects, but that's not the problem since the hum persists even when the Woo is plugged directly into the wall with nothing else connected except headphones.
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> It definitely sounds like a ground problem in your electrical system.  Do you have cable TV?  Those systems are notorious for ground loop issues.  If there is any way to disconnect your cable connections that would tell you if that's the culprit.


 

 No, no cable TV.  I have satellite TV, but in a different part of the house, and on different circuits.  
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> +1
> The mere touching the coax will give it up (grounding issue or no?).


 

 I'm almost positive it is coming from the amp, and is not a house wiring, etc., issue.  Wherever I plug the amp in, even in my shop (which is a separate building behind my house where I work) the hum is there if I listen closely.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> mikemalter said:
> ...


 
  If it is only from the amp, that is a separate issue.  Are you hearing the hum in the phones, or are you hearing it from the equipment?  And, is it only from the amp?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If it is only from the amp, that is a separate issue.  Are you hearing the hum in the phones, or are you hearing it from the equipment?  And, is it only from the amp?


 

 Only from the amp.  I hear it in the headphones, not from the equipment directly.  It is equally present with my HD800s through the high impedance jack, and with my Denons through the low impedance jack.


----------



## dminches

Have you tried using different tubes?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 

 So you have a DAC, and if you put your ear near it there is no humming?
   
  Do you hear the hum only if there is no music playing?  If so, how high do you have to turn up the volume to hear it?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


dminches said:


> Have you tried using different tubes?


 

     Yes--tried different power tubes and rectifier; no difference.  Hum still present.
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So you have a DAC, and if you put your ear near it there is no humming?
> Do you hear the hum only if there is no music playing?  If so, how high do you have to turn up the volume to hear it?


 
   
  Well, all pieces of gear will make some noise if you get your ear close enough, but this hum is not like that; it is audible only through headphones, and it is the same level no matter where the volume control is set--even completely off.
   
  I have to stress again that this is a VERY faint hum--the room has to be very quiet otherwise, and I have to strain to hear it at all.  But, it would be better if it weren't there.  And it is definitely coming from the amp, and from the amp alone.


----------



## mikemalter

Ok, well if it is very faint, then it probably is no big deal then.
   
  Can you hear the transformers hum when you put your ear close to the amp?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I used to be able to hear that, but I purchased some heavy brass weights from Mapleshade; one large 3 lb. weight goes on top of the power supply transformer, and 2 smaller 1.5 lb. weights go on top of the two transformers on the amp itself; afterwards, that particular noise became just about nonexistant.
   
  I have the amp on brass footers, which also helps with noise, vibration, and air circulation.  This last tiny hum I'm hearing through the headphones is the last little bit of noise I'm trying to eliminate.  
   
  Here's a photo:


----------



## Driftwood

The hum could be caused by a DC voltage on your AC power, if that is the case, something like the PS Audio Humbuster could help. There are probably less expensive ways of solving the same problem though...


----------



## Silent One

How do you like the installment of the brass footers under the 6SE? Was any improvement in sound small or easily noticed?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Improvement in sound, not really.  But vibration was noticeably reduced, even eliminated.  In my experience, often what is perceived as equipment hum is caused by very small vibrations, especially with tube gear.
   
  The amp is also much cooler to the touch after running for a few hours.The brass footers afford 1.5 inches of clearance, and possibly they are pulling some heat from the amp's chassis.  The equipment rack is also a Mapleshade unit, with very thick, heavy slabs of oak for shelves.  This helps with vibration, as well.  Here's a photo of the entire setup:


----------



## dminches

Here's something else to try.  http://www.ciaudio.com/products/XDC2  This is a product which is used to clean up the power, as someone else suggested.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





driftwood said:


> The hum could be caused by a DC voltage on your AC power, if that is the case, something like the PS Audio Humbuster could help. There are probably less expensive ways of solving the same problem though...


 

 I was thinking the same exact thing myself.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Improvement in sound, not really.  But vibration was noticeably reduced, even eliminated.  In my experience, often what is perceived as equipment hum is caused by very small vibrations, especially with tube gear.
> 
> The amp is also much cooler to the touch after running for a few hours.The brass footers afford 1.5 inches of clearance, and possibly they are pulling some heat from the amp's chassis.  The equipment rack is also a Mapleshade unit, with very thick, heavy slabs of oak for shelves.  This helps with vibration, as well.  Here's a photo of the entire setup:


 

 The amp is probably cooler to the touch because of the larger surface area of the attached metal.  Nice.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





driftwood said:


> The hum could be caused by a DC voltage on your AC power, if that is the case, something like the PS Audio Humbuster could help. There are probably less expensive ways of solving the same problem though...


 


  the hum is most probably the result of leaking AC ripple in the DC supply within the front section and/or the power supply section. best way to confirm is to use a multimeter and look
  for AC voltage, most likely in the mV range, on pin 1 and pin 6 of the wa6SE amp section.
  if confirmed, one can increase the capacitance for better ripple filtering and/or lower the
  voltage being applied.


----------



## grokit

Can you move the iLok dongle from machine to machine so you could use a single license on multiple computers?
   
  Quote: 





khollister said:


> Pure Music can be used on multiple computers, but I have spent hours today going back and forth between PM 1.7 and Amarra Mini 2.1.1 (I have a 14 day unlimited trial with my iLok). While I think the price of Amarra is borderline criminal, I am definitely convinced it sounds better, especially when you use the playlist mode and not drive it from iTunes. PM seems airier and more spacious at first, but there is something wrong with the timbre of instruments - the harmonic texture is off. Amarra is clearly better on my rig if you get past the HiFi wow factor and listen to the dimensionality of individual instruments and the harmonic structure of them. PM ends up sounding "digital" to me compared to Amarra. And while my system is pretty good, it is far from being state of the art in resolution.
> 
> The ultimate test was when I quit concentrating on minute changes and listened to a song while I was working on something else at the other computer. With PM I all of a sudden was drawn back to the sound as being artificial and a little fatiguing. With Amarra, I forgot about the equipment for a few minutes and just enjoyed the music - when I snapped back to attention and listened to the sound (as opposed to the music), I was struck by how natural it still sounded.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





takezo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mostly the Woo headphone amplifiers hum because... wait for it.. they don't know the words!


----------



## Skylab

Funny thing it, I have owned a lot of tube amps, and one of the things I like most about the Woo amps I own is that neither one hums AT ALL.  Many of my other tube amps did have some hum audible at least with certain headphones.  Not so my WA2 or WA6.  Totally silent with any headphone I have tried.


----------



## 65dos

Tell us about wa6, I thought to buy.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Funny thing it, I have owned a lot of tube amps, and one of the things I like most about the Woo amps I own is that neither one hums AT ALL.  Many of my other tube amps did have some hum audible at least with certain headphones.  Not so my WA2 or WA6.  Totally silent with any headphone I have tried.


 

 Me too.  I am a sucker for Audio Research's VT 100 series and my current preamp is tubed, and there always is a little hum audible.


----------



## grokit

The only noise I get out of my WA22 is the occasional tube microphonics. And that is only with no music playing, and only if I touch the amp or the stand/platform it is on.


----------



## khollister

yup - any computer you want, just one at a time.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Can you move the iLok dongle from machine to machine so you could use a single license on multiple computers?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Improvement in sound, not really.  But vibration was noticeably reduced, even eliminated.  In my experience, often what is perceived as equipment hum is caused by very small vibrations, especially with tube gear.
> 
> The amp is also much cooler to the touch after running for a few hours.The brass footers afford 1.5 inches of clearance, and possibly they are pulling some heat from the amp's chassis.  The equipment rack is also a Mapleshade unit, with very thick, heavy slabs of oak for shelves.  This helps with vibration, as well.  Here's a photo of the entire setup:


 
   
  I too, shop at Mapleshade and recognized your accessories right away. Had been contemplating purchase of footers the past month. I like the 30 Day return on goods policy.Bought and returned the M2Tech hi-face re-clocking adapter; kept the black isoblocks and is paired with a 2" maple platform from another source. Brass footers will complete this assembly for my WA6SE. 
   
  To hedge against the above project, I ordered a set of Via Blue Tri-Absorbers this morning. Looking forward to see which solution I like better. We all hope you get your hum resolved soon. I had a hum in my Woo the first month and despite my preference for silence in the listening room, I wanted to scream! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Turned out to be the coax in to the HDTV box. Rerouted cable through surge protector for grounding and now relieved to say my amp is dead silent. Also, I'm running a pair 6SN7 tubes in my WA6SE and my amp stays cool even after 8 hours of play. With stock 6EW7 tubes my Woo would get hot and stay hot! Hopefully, the footers will do its vibration control but added airflow not required.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info and suggestions; actually, I'm listening right now, and I can't hear the hum at all.  I'll have to try and figure out what's different electrically in my house tonight.  Maybe the hum is just occasionally inside my head . . .


----------



## Skylab

red jacket mike said:


> Thanks for the info and suggestions; actually, I'm listening right now, and I can't hear the hum at all.  I'll have to try and figure out what's different electrically in my house tonight.  Maybe the hum is just occasionally inside my head . . .





 


Dimmers are notorious for adding buzz or hum on the AC lines. Try turning any dimmers you may have all the way off.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A call out to WA22 owners...... if anybody would be kind enough to help.   I started to get curious about why there is no Black Gate parts upgrade package for the WA22 when there exists one for both the WA6SE and the WA5.  If anybody has been inside their amp could you possibly let me know what parts are in use for the capacitors and resistors?  If they are Rubycons like the stock WA6 then I'd definitely have to talk to Jack about doing a bit of customizing to swap a few out for Mundorfs or Sonicaps when the time comes to order mine.  If Jack is using something good already like the Auricaps that are inside the WES then it would make sense that there is no upgrade option.


----------



## avsBuddy

Guys, my WA2 hams when connected to the main A/V system as a pre at any volume, but is fine when listening through headphones. When I lift the ground by using a two prong power cable, hum disappears. Is this a typical grounding issue? Is there any harm in running WA2 without ground?
   
  I actually want to comment on how quite WA2 are though the headphones, the noise floor on this amp is amazing.
   
  On a negative side, I have a small cosmetic defect (scratch) on my WA2. Has anyone else got any blemishes on their new Woo amps or am I the only lucky one. It's small enough that I feel silly that I'm bothered by it, but by the same talking it bugs me.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A call out to WA22 owners...... if anybody would be kind enough to help.   I started to get curious about why there is no Black Gate parts upgrade package for the WA22 when there exists one for both the WA6SE and the WA5.  If anybody has been inside their amp could you possibly let me know what parts are in use for the capacitors and resistors?  If they are Rubycons like the stock WA6 then I'd definitely have to talk to Jack about doing a bit of customizing to swap a few out for Mundorfs or Sonicaps when the time comes to order mine.  If Jack is using something good already like the Auricaps that are inside the WES then it would make sense that there is no upgrade option.


 

 I don't know how active he is anymore, but Seamaster had his WA22 modified (re-capped) by Dan Wright (Modwright Instruments).  I heard that amp at a local meet and it sounded outstanding, but then I never heard it in the stock version.  He seemed pleased, but I have not heard much here from him and I don't frequent the forums that much.  You might try sending him a PM to see if he's still happy with the mod.  Dan used Modwright proprietary caps AFAIK.  I believe he priced out the mod at around $800 if I recall.


----------



## grokit

I rolled in my EML 5U4G today, what a beaut. It was great right out of the box and then started to sound well, not as good. How long do they take to settle down/burn in generally? 
   
  TubesUSA charged me $30 for $13 worth of postage (including insurance); I was surprised after I tried to see what the deal was with a $38 shipping fee:
   
  "[size=small]The brunt of the amount is via Paypal fees(3.5%), but I also only ship with insurance. This costs more, but the end user is protected against shipping damages.[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]Best,[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]George[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]230.00 tube[/size]
  [size=x-small]    8.05 Paypal fee[/size]
  [size=x-small]   30.00 shipping w/insurance for 300.00[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]268.05 total"[/size]
   
  The $13 postage label makes him a bit of an opportunist in my book. It took 10 days to reach me but that includes weekends so I'm okay with that. He should have gone with express postage for what I paid or charged me less though.
   
  edit: toned down a bit as I have calmed down a bit.


----------



## jax

I've dealt with George before, as have a few of my friends and acquaintances and he certainly has always occurred to me as a man of integrity who offers some fine products and stands behind them, so your comment really surprises me.  I'd try checking in with him
   
  Regarding burn-in - I'd give it a few hundred hours.  It will go through some fluctuations during that time, as I recall, but I didn't find the swings to be so dramatic as Black Treasures, for instance.  It's a damn fine rectifier for sure.


----------



## grokit

I was a bit upset when I saw the $13.00 right on the label after that email exchange. As I said, the postage label included insurance, I checked the price online to make sure. This was just Priority Mail within the USA, a 1lb. 8oz. box between our zip codes goes for $12.95 if paid in person, including $200 worth of insurance.
   
  Maybe he is milking the demand and marking up the postage excessively because he can't mark up the tube by dealer agreement. I understand that he has to gasp-mail the package, but almost all other retailers absorb credit card/paypal fees etc., he is getting list price for the tube after all.
   
  George needs to learn how to print postage labels from online with "stealth" pricing, that would help avoid reactions like this


----------



## jax

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I had already edited/toned the liar/thief part down while you were typing evidently. I was just a bit upset ATM when I saw the $13.00 right on the label after that email exchange.
> 
> And you're right, it's TubesUSA, not the TubeStore, I will edit again


 

 George is a stand-up guy, as far as I've been able to judge - you might want to check in with him on that - it could have been an honest mistake on someone's part, or the label may be misleading.  Having been a sole-proprietor most of my life I know first-hand what it takes to run small business, and if you don't charge for your time you will find survival a bit challenging.  Not to justify misleading others - but I just don't think that's what's going on here having dealt with George. 
   
  I understand being upset about something like that - been there, done that.  I try to sleep on it or bounce it off others before doing anything I might regret the next day.   I'll edit my previous post and leave it at that.  Good luck and I hope the EML works out well for you!


----------



## grokit

When he quoted me the additional $38.05 over the cost of the tube just to mail it to me and process my payment, I did ask why it cost so much. What I quoted is what he replied with. Maybe he can't meet demand or maybe he's getting a raw deal from Emission Labs, who knows. All that I do know is $13 + $8 = $21 and no other retailer even charges PayPal fees.
   
  I am not the only one that takes exception to this, I posted when I ordered and got this reply, "There's gotta be a better place, or another place to get some EML.  The shipping from george to Canada was 40usd for one tube."
   
  Of course there are differing opinions, "Your lucky George didn't tell you to forget it. My pair came in a box about twice the size as the box my WA6SE came in, and yes I paid the extra $25 and thanked him for the prompt shipping."
   
  Anyways I did call him on it, he told me $30 and I paid anyways so I made my choice. George was able to get 110% markup on shipping so that's what he did. If he had any competition he would have to change his ways though.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Dimmers are notorious for adding buzz or hum on the AC lines. Try turning any dimmers you may have all the way off.


 


  I know that well from trying to get distant AM radio stations on a radio located anywhere near a dimmer.  Cheap walwarts can also cause power line noise.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Guys, my WA2 hams when connected to the main A/V system as a pre at any volume, but is fine when listening through headphones. When I lift the ground by using a two prong power cable, hum disappears. Is this a typical grounding issue? Is there any harm in running WA2 without ground?
> 
> I actually want to comment on how quite WA2 are though the headphones, the noise floor on this amp is amazing.
> 
> On a negative side, I have a small cosmetic defect (scratch) on my WA2. Has anyone else got any blemishes on their new Woo amps or am I the only lucky one. It's small enough that I feel silly that I'm bothered by it, but by the same talking it bugs me.


 

 I also have a scratch on my WA2. It's on lid of the middle "box" situated behind the 6922 tubes. It used to bug me but not anymore. But what bugs me a little is that I hear a static-type sound when switch from one detent to the next on my stepped attenuator. Does anyone else experience that?


----------



## RTF

I'm happy to say I'll be joining the club with an incoming WA6. I have a few beginner questions that I'm sure have been asked/answered 100 times but...I'm going for a more 'tubey' sound so I'm going to try a Sylvania 5931 plus some RCA 6ew7's big bottle. Am I on the right track with those tubes? Edit: and I was also wondering, I'm not sure what they're called, but where do you get those tube cooling rings? I've looked around but can't seem to find them. Thanks


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A call out to WA22 owners...... if anybody would be kind enough to help.   I started to get curious about why there is no Black Gate parts upgrade package for the WA22 when there exists one for both the WA6SE and the WA5.  If anybody has been inside their amp could you possibly let me know what parts are in use for the capacitors and resistors?  If they are Rubycons like the stock WA6 then I'd definitely have to talk to Jack about doing a bit of customizing to swap a few out for Mundorfs or Sonicaps when the time comes to order mine.  If Jack is using something good already like the Auricaps that are inside the WES then it would make sense that there is no upgrade option.


 

 The last time I inquire the BG options on the WA22, Jack told me it is extremely difficult to get the parts required for WA22.  The options for both WA6SE and WA5 is that he still have the BGs for them in stock.  That said, it is still able to get the parts to upgrade it yourself but it probably have to go to few different sources to obtain all the parts.]
   
  Here are the list of parts that is in my WA22...
   
  1/ BlackGate NH 220uf/160V - x6                        
  2/ RMG 470Ω resistor - x2                                         
  3/ RMG 220KΩ  resistors - x 4                                 
  4/ V-Cap CuTF 0.22uf/300V- x4                          
  5/ BlackGate NH 150uf/350 - x3                          
  6/ Mills MR-200 30.1k resistors - x4   
   
  Optional:                    
  7/ Gold plated Japan made selector                     
  8/ Mundrof Silver Gold 0.5mm &1mm cable


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A call out to WA22 owners...... if anybody would be kind enough to help.   I started to get curious about why there is no Black Gate parts upgrade package for the WA22 when there exists one for both the WA6SE and the WA5.  If anybody has been inside their amp could you possibly let me know what parts are in use for the capacitors and resistors?  If they are Rubycons like the stock WA6 then I'd definitely have to talk to Jack about doing a bit of customizing to swap a few out for Mundorfs or Sonicaps when the time comes to order mine.  If Jack is using something good already like the Auricaps that are inside the WES then it would make sense that there is no upgrade option.


 

 Seamaster posted pictures of the stock WA22 internals here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/451678/wa22-let-s-roll-some-tubes-done-mod-burnning-in/330#post_6438909
  I can't recognise what caps they are though, anyone here can identify them?
   
  I guess if you really want a caps upgrade, you can provide Jack with the parts as jc9394 mentioned. I did something similar by providing Jack with Mundorf silver/gold wiring and Furutech rhodium IEC inlet for my amp. I know a guy in my area who supposedly specializes in modifying tube amps and stocks Blackgates and Mundorf caps, but I'm a little wary of trusting people other than Jack to modify my WA22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rtf said:


> I'm happy to say I'll be joining the club with an incoming WA6. I have a few beginner questions that I'm sure have been asked/answered 100 times but...I'm going for a more 'tubey' sound so I'm going to try a Sylvania 5931 plus some RCA 6ew7's big bottle. Am I on the right track with those tubes? Edit: and I was also wondering, I'm not sure what they're called, but where do you get those tube cooling rings? I've looked around but can't seem to find them. Thanks


 


  Welcome to the club, the tubiest I heard is Mullard GZ34 with Sylvania 6EW7. 
   
  Are these you are talking about?
   
  http://www.audiotubes.com/damper.htm


----------



## RTF

Thanks for the welcome jc9394.  And I'll be sure to check out those tubes.
   
  No those aren't quite what I'm looking for, I'll try to find a pic of the kind I mean somewhere in this thread.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

These?  I found them not that much useful.
   
  http://www.audioconnect.com/html/tube_dampers.html
   
   
  Quote: 





rtf said:


> Thanks for the welcome jc9394.  And I'll be sure to check out those tubes.
> 
> No those aren't quite what I'm looking for, I'll try to find a pic of the kind I mean somewhere in this thread.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> When he quoted me the additional $38.05 over the cost of the tube just to mail it to me and process my payment, I did ask why it cost so much. What I quoted is what he replied with. Maybe he can't meet demand or maybe he's getting a raw deal from Emission Labs, who knows. All that I do know is $13 + $8 = $21 and no other retailer even charges PayPal fees.
> 
> I am not the only one that takes exception to this, I posted when I ordered and got this reply, "There's gotta be a better place, or another place to get some EML.  The shipping from george to Canada was 40usd for one tube."
> 
> ...


 

 I agree.  When there is no competition then vendors can charge what they want.  Well, you know what they say, you forget the price long after but still have the quality.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





rtf said:


> I'm happy to say I'll be joining the club with an incoming WA6. I have a few beginner questions that I'm sure have been asked/answered 100 times but...I'm going for a more 'tubey' sound so I'm going to try a Sylvania 5931 plus some RCA 6ew7's big bottle. Am I on the right track with those tubes? Edit: and I was also wondering, I'm not sure what they're called, but where do you get those tube cooling rings? I've looked around but can't seem to find them. Thanks


 

 You can find them at Herbie's Audio Lab.  Some folks find the tube dampers (they are more for vibration control and microphonics than cooling, really) work well for them, and others find that they don't do much.  Herbie's has a 90 day full refund return policy on all of their products, though, so that should be plenty of time for you to decide if they work for you or not.
   
  For me, I don't hear the improvements in sound that some people claim; I just want all my gear to be as quiet and vibration free as possible, and the tube dampers do accomplish that in my system.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> Seamaster posted pictures of the stock WA22 internals here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/451678/wa22-let-s-roll-some-tubes-done-mod-burnning-in/330#post_6438909
> I can't recognise what caps they are though, anyone here can identify them?
> ...


 

 Per my earlier post; He had the recap done by Modwright using their excellent proprietary caps they use on their own components.  Dan has the caps made to his specs.  That amp sounded outstanding at the meet I heard it at, which was just after he had the mod done so the caps had not even burned in, and I know from owning several of their components that they do take some time to burn in and sound their best.  There was no stock unit there at the meet to compare to though, and I wonder how Seamaster likes the amp at this point and if he'd ever done any comparisons.


----------



## jc9394

Wonder how they compare to BGs...


----------



## jax

Quote: 





grokit said:


> When he quoted me the additional $38.05 over the cost of the tube just to mail it to me and process my payment, I did ask why it cost so much. What I quoted is what he replied with. Maybe he can't meet demand or maybe he's getting a raw deal from Emission Labs, who knows. All that I do know is $13 + $8 = $21 and no other retailer even charges PayPal fees.
> 
> I am not the only one that takes exception to this, I posted when I ordered and got this reply, "There's gotta be a better place, or another place to get some EML.  The shipping from george to Canada was 40usd for one tube."
> 
> ...


 

 Smaller companies like TubesUSA.com cannot be expected to compete with the big boys on all levels.  If you've ever tried running your own business or have been an active part of small company, you'd know this first hand.  It sounds to me that George quoted his standard rate for shipping, the same as everyone else who buys that tube from him would pay, and when you asked him he tried to politely explain some of the reasons why he charges what he does.  You agreed to pay it - you could have said no and looked for the tube elsewhere. Would you have preferred he just mark the tube itself up to $268 and offered "Free Shipping"?  If he did not pay for insurance that means that he alone is taking the risk if the tube is lost or damage in shipment, and I know he'd stand by that based upon his actions with myself and others I know.  I suppose it's his business whether he does or does not actually insure it - but it is more likely that someone just overlooked the insurance. Other retailers don't charge for Paypal because they've somehow absorbed the fee (or the same fee for using credit cards through their own bank) in some other way, either by marking the items up a bit higher, or compensating by making up for it in some other way.  I agree that it's a bit odd to break it out like that.   It is the cost of doing business and, as I pointed out to you before, if you are a small business, trying to survive, and you start giving away your time and expenses in order to try to compete with larger businesses who operate on an entirely different level, you will not stay in business long (and then where would you get your EML? - last time I checked there was not a listing on Amazon).  Why shouldn't he be charging for the time and effort it takes him, as a small shop, to pack and ship items individually, and take care of the related bookkeeping and supplies?  It's like someone taking a look at your salary from work and telling you that you shouldn't be making this much money for your time and that you could survive on less. I get that your issue here is in what George told you vs the label - so if it really bothers you that much, then write to him or call him and ask.  Personally I think this is as silly as buying something from anywhere for a price you agree upon, and then calling back and challenging the vendor for marking up their product by X amount - It's a bit insulting on some level.  But since he told you something seemingly conflicting, and that bothers you enough to post what you have about it, I would call him.
   
  AFAIK, TubesUSA is the North American distributor for EML tubes.  There aren't many folks selling them as dealers in North Amercia last time I checked so the choices are limited.  They are also manufactured in very small batches and imported sporadically as they are available.  At least one of your annoyances came not from TubesUSA, but from the USPS - Priority Mail normally is delivered within 2 days of shipment, but I have noticed around these holidays that they've really slipped on that, and I do hope it is not a permanent slip as I really like that service otherwise.  In mid-December I shipped a package from Seattle to Stockton, CA by Priority.  This would normally take a day or two.  It arrived ten days later.  It had sat in a shipping center near Seattle for about five of those days for some reason (according to the tracking).  USPS could not explain it and would not refund my money because the service is not guaranteed.  So if George was reasonably expecting a 2-day service from them, I think he was probably surprised like many others have been, and is probably as disappointed as you are at that service.  Again, given that your complaint is with something George told you, I would take it up directly with him before posting about it on a public forum.  I bought an EML tube from him several years ago and paid just about the same price for shipping.  It arrived in two days in my case.  I don't recall using PayPal though.


----------



## avsBuddy

Sorry to hear you also have a scratch on you WA2 - that's not impressive at all, I was hoping for a better quality control on Jack side. Concerning stepped attenuator, switching between the notches on my stepped attenuator is usually noise free. I did hear a slight noise couple of times between the notches - very soft, when I just got the WA2, but in a several weeks since I've had it - attenuator has been quiet.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jax said:


> Smaller companies like TubesUSA.com cannot be expected to compete with the big boys on all levels.  If you've ever tried running your own business or have been an active part of small company, you'd know this first hand.  It sounds to me that George quoted his standard rate for shipping, the same as everyone else who buys that tube from him would pay, and when you asked him he tried to politely explain some of the reasons why he charges what he does.  You agreed to pay it - you could have said no and looked for the tube elsewhere. Would you have preferred he just mark the tube itself up to $268 and offered "Free Shipping"?  If he did not pay for insurance that means that he alone is taking the risk if the tube is lost or damage in shipment, and I know he'd stand by that based upon his actions with myself and others I know.  I suppose it's his business whether he does or does not actually insure it - but it is more likely that someone just overlooked the insurance. Other retailers don't charge for Paypal because they've somehow absorbed the fee (or the same fee for using credit cards through their own bank) in some other way, either by marking the items up a bit higher, or compensating by making up for it in some other way.  I agree that it's a bit odd to break it out like that.   It is the cost of doing business and, as I pointed out to you before, if you are a small business, trying to survive, and you start giving away your time and expenses in order to try to compete with larger businesses who operate on an entirely different level, you will not stay in business long (and then where would you get your EML? - last time I checked there was not a listing on Amazon).  Why shouldn't he be charging for the time and effort it takes him, as a small shop, to pack and ship items individually, and take care of the related bookkeeping and supplies?  It's like someone taking a look at your salary from work and telling you that you shouldn't be making this much money for your time and that you could survive on less. I get that your issue here is in what George told you vs the label - so if it really bothers you that much, then write to him or call him and ask.  Personally I think this is as silly as buying something from anywhere for a price you agree upon, and then calling back and challenging the vendor for marking up their product by X amount - It's a bit insulting on some level.  But since he told you something seemingly conflicting, and that bothers you enough to post what you have about it, I would call him.
> 
> AFAIK, TubesUSA is the North American distributor for EML tubes.  There aren't many folks selling them as dealers in North Amercia last time I checked so the choices are limited.  They are also manufactured in very small batches and imported sporadically as they are available.  At least one of your annoyances came not from TubesUSA, but from the USPS - Priority Mail normally is delivered within 2 days of shipment, but I have noticed around these holidays that they've really slipped on that, and I do hope it is not a permanent slip as I really like that service otherwise.  In mid-December I shipped a package from Seattle to Stockton, CA by Priority.  This would normally take a day or two.  It arrived ten days later.  It had sat in a shipping center near Seattle for about five of those days for some reason (according to the tracking).  USPS could not explain it and would not refund my money because the service is not guaranteed.  So if George was reasonably expecting a 2-day service from them, I think he was probably surprised like many others have been, and is probably as disappointed as you are at that service.  Again, given that your complaint is with something George told you, I would take it up directly with him before posting about it on a public forum.  I bought an EML tube from him several years ago and paid just about the same price for shipping.  It arrived in two days in my case.  I don't recall using PayPal though.


 

 X2.  The postage you see printed does not includes the insurance he paid.  One thing most people forget that he also paid for the shipping box too, for a small business owners, these add up really fast.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2.  The postage you see printed does not includes the insurance he paid.  One thing most people forget that he also paid for the shipping box too, for a small business owners, these add up really fast.


 


  That is just not true. As I have already said I checked the postage online and a 1 lb. 8 oz box shipped Priority Mail from his zip code to mine insured for $200 is $12.95. The postage alone is $10.20, or $9.37 if paid online. The shipping box was a recycled Staples box, but perhaps the cost of foam peanuts has gone through the roof.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wonder how they compare to BGs...


 

 Have you looked into Auria caps?  I had a transport modded with Auria caps and imaging was really solid.  Also had position within the soundstage as well as left and right positioning.


----------



## dminches

The customer service one receives from small vendors cannot be quantified in dollars and cents.  When I thought I had an issue with my EML I called George and HE answered the phone and assured me he would deal with the issue if it was the tube.  Don't know about you, but to me that's worth a little extra postage.  The vendor only matters when there is an issue and the small companies seem to excel at this.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That is just not true. As I have already said I checked the postage online and a 1 lb. 8 oz box shipped Priority Mail from his zip code to mine insured for $200 is $12.95. The postage alone is $10.20, or $9.37 if paid online. The shipping box was a recycled Staples box, but perhaps the cost of foam peanuts has gone through the roof.


 


  I just shipped something out last Friday and the postage printed $15.xx but I paid close to $20, the insurance amount does not print on the postage label.  I'm not going to argue with you but if you think he is not honest or feel cheated, don't order from him again.
   
  Now, let's get back to Woo related topics.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Well it sure sounds like you are arguing, so I will respond by giving you the Zip codes so you can check it out yourself using the above link. 11554 to 99676, 1lb. 8oz. He didn't print the label himself, he paid at the post office. I ship packages all over the US and the world every week without overcharging somehow, and don't appreciate this condescension.
   
  I'm sorry I brought it up, but everything I have said is true. As I have also said already, I was upset at the time because of the contrast to what he had told me via email. But it is not me that won't let this subject die...
   
  Luckily I won't have to order from him again, as I just discovered that TubesUSA isn't the only game in town after all. I am in the process of ordering another one for comparison from EML's other U.S. based distributor, located in California. Hopefully this one doesn't charge $38 to process a payment and mail a single tube.


----------



## Icenine2

grokit,
   
  I too ordered a 5U4G from George w/the same charge.  I was equally upset by it but then I never asked about the ship charge and thought the dollar imbalance had caused the price to boost.  After the fact I really had no one to blame but myself and did find someone else who sells them: http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/eml5u4gmesh.html  The ship charge I come up with is $15 total.  Not a lot of money but I really hate paying more for shipping.  My Shuguang Treasues shipped free from China!  Of course it's built in.
   
  Jax,
   
  I thought someone here said a modded WA22 was a no-go from Jack.  I have internal pictures on mine too.  The BG stuff on JC's looks way cool.  I'd love to hear it.................or maybe not!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> grokit,
> 
> I too ordered a 5U4G from George w/the same charge.  I was equally upset by it but then I never asked about the ship charge and thought the dollar imbalance had caused the price to boost.  After the fact I really had no one to blame but myself and did find someone else who sells them: http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/eml5u4gmesh.html  The ship charge I come up with is $15 total.  Not a lot of money but I really hate paying more for shipping.  My Shuguang Treasues shipped free from China!  Of course it's built in.


 

  Nice find, a point-and-click purchase with no BS; I've bookmarked it and thanks for posting!


----------



## RTF

Cool thanks Red Jacket Mike thats what I'm looking for, once I get which tubes I'm going to use finalized maybe I'll give those a try.
  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

<SHAMELESS PLUG>The TSRP tubes I am selling have free shipping!< SHAMELESS PLUG />


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> <SHAMELESS PLUG>The TSRP tubes I am selling have free shipping!< SHAMELESS PLUG />


 

 I didn't see your post likely due to an HTML parsing error!


----------



## Rizlaw

clayton sf said:


> I also have a scratch on my WA2. It's on lid of the middle "box" situated behind the 6922 tubes. It used to bug me but not anymore. But what bugs me a little is that I hear a static-type sound when switch from one detent to the next on my stepped attenuator. Does anyone else experience that?





 

Clayton SF,

So far, my new WA2's DACT stepped attenuator is dead silent switching through all detent levels and the detents are very soft, you can barely feel them as you turn the knob. You might want to ask Jack about the static noise, IMO, it shouldn't be there. To my pleasant surprise, there's also no noise from the input selector switch when switching inputs. It's one quiet unit.

As for AVSBuddy's issue with blemishes, mine has a few minor blemishes (I'd call them scuff marks) on the metal work which I mentioned to Jack, but no big deal.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But what bugs me a little is that I hear a static-type sound when switch from one detent to the next on my stepped attenuator. Does anyone else experience that?


 


  Maybe there's dust in there?  I know potentiometers will produce a static-type sound if there's even a little bit of dust on the contacts.  If turning the knob a bunch of times doesn't clear it up, try blowing some compressed air in there.


----------



## Maxvla

Got my WA6 w/Sophia today. About the only thing I can confirm right now is that it indeed is dead SILENT with IEMs, which made me let loose a sigh of relief. As for sound impressions, that will have to wait until I get over this sinus infection. One thing I noticed right away, despite the poor hearing, is this amp has really brought out the bass in my RE-262s. It's still lighter in bass than I want in the long term (upgrading IEM), but it's better than before using my CD player's headphone output.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's pretty much what I was looking for.  Thanks for digging it up.  Dayton and Nichicon it would seem.  I think Black Gate is overpriced for what it offers personally, there are lots of options out there.  Jack is willing to do customizations upon request so I just thought I would have a plan ready and could give him specifics.  It's not a full out mod I want, just a few critical caps here and there that would offer the greatest benefit.  These are new waters for me for the most part, I want to become more familiar so I know what to ask about.
   
  In Seamaster's photo it looks like Dan bypassed the stock caps rather than replacing them.  I don't know if that is the way to go or not.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Are you referring to Auricaps?  I have these inside my desktop amp and like them a lot.  These are what Jack uses in his top of the line WES amp so it seems he thinks pretty highly of them too.  Most people think Sonicaps are a better value, but the Auricap lends a bit of sweetness to the sound in much the same way a Mundorf Silver/Oil cap will (only not to that extent).  I had two versions of my desktop amp, one without and one with Auricaps and I felt the cap change difference was substantial and very worth it.  Primarily it brought a sense of greater depth and realism to everything.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, sorry Auricaps.  They are not as popular as the Blackgates.  And that sense of depth was remarkable.  I was listening to the 1812 overture, and could tell that the chior was in a oval shape the sense of realism was that good.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Luckily I won't have to order from him again, as I just discovered that TubesUSA isn't the only game in town after all. I am in the process of ordering another one for comparison from EML's other U.S. based distributor, located in California. Hopefully this one doesn't charge $38 to process a payment and mail a single tube.


 

 I hope you have better luck with that seller (California) than I did.
  I knew about that seller last year, but maybe things have changed for the better. I am sure you will let us know.
  I am not in anyway saying they are dishonest but I never went as far as giving them my money.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 Thanks, he never even got back to me. I now prefer the simple point-and-click solution posted since.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now that Ramlabs (California retailer) has finished moving and hopefully resolved  a few business issues (from Autumn 2010), I would expect them to get off to a good start in 2011. Please share your experiences with us - can never have too many tube options.


----------



## nututubes

If you are already a Woo Audio customer, you can eliminate all the bs and just buy them (EML) from Woo Audio. They have a click and add to shopping basket also.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Sorry to hear you also have a scratch on you WA2 - that's not impressive at all, I was hoping for a better quality control on Jack side. Concerning stepped attenuator, switching between the notches on my stepped attenuator is usually noise free. I did hear a slight noise couple of times between the notches - very soft, when I just got the WA2, but in a several weeks since I've had it - attenuator has been quiet.


 
   
  Quote: 





rizlaw said:


> Clayton SF,So far, my new WA2's DACT stepped attenuator is dead silent switching through all detent levels and the detents are very soft, you can barely feel them as you turn the knob. You might want to ask Jack about the static noise, IMO, it shouldn't be there. To my pleasant surprise, there's also no noise from the input selector switch when switching inputs. It's one quiet unit.As for AVSBuddy's issue with blemishes, mine has a few minor blemishes (I'd call them scuff marks) on the metal work which I mentioned to Jack, but no big deal.


 
   
  Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks to all that responded to my predicament with my stepped attenuator. I also email Jack and he emailed me back almost immediately with this advice:
   
*Me*: I've been hearing a static-type sound when I switch from one detent to the next on my stepped attenuator.... Is the attenuator wearing down? It's been getting more and more noticeable. It is more noticeable at the 5- to 8-step detent levels.
*Jack*: It could be the dust causing the noise. Can you recycle the knob several times in the noise range?
*Me*: I did what you suggested and the noise is reduced by 95%. I still can hear a few little clicks. Shouldn't it be 100% quiet when recycling?
   
  I am waiting for a response to the last question.
  So perhaps if I keep cycling it a few more times over the week it may just go silent--the static clicks, that is.
   
*EDIT*: I just got a response 10 minutes later. That's a quick response!!!
*Jack*: You may need to open up the bottom and blow it with a dust-off. It is likely something tiny on one of the contact.


----------



## Clayton SF

Sorry. Double post.


----------



## Clayton SF

Eek! Triple post! Sorry.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Eek! Triple post! Sorry.


 

 It's no problem, Clayton.  It's always good hearing from you.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks. I see that you've slipped out of your diving gear and into a comfortable shirt. Nice touch. GoodMusic + WA22 = GoodLife. Nice equation! And speaking of an equation: I wonder which headphones A.Einstein would have paired with his Woo?


----------



## Clayton SF

And it's a very Good Life, yes?


----------



## stufaro

I am just about to order a WA2, been emailing back and forth with Jack about WA6 SE vs WA2 for vinyl source and RS1i.
   
  I noticed most everyone here says go WA6 SE but Jack seems to say WA2 has better synergy. What you guys think?


----------



## grokit

I think that Jack is never wrong about these issues!


----------



## Icenine2

Stu,
   
  Heads up.  Theres a WA2 mint w/parts upgrade for sale in the Forum.   $975.  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/532269/fs-woo-audio-wa2-with-premium-parts-upgrade#post_7178582  I'd hurry if I were you.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> I am just about to order a WA2, been emailing back and forth with Jack about WA6 SE vs WA2 for vinyl source and RS1i.
> 
> I noticed most everyone here says go WA6 SE but Jack seems to say WA2 has better synergy. What you guys think?


 

 I would trust Jack. I was thinking in buying a WA22 because my sources and headphones are all balanced but Jack told me the WA5-LE was a better amplifier and match. I confirmed the in a listening test and bought the WA5-LE eventhat it is Single Ended and I am very happy with it.
   
  Jack is very honest and will give you the right advice.


----------



## Icenine2

I had a headphone nirvana experience I've never had before the Woo.  I was listening to a FLAC live recording of Jeff Beck playing at the Park West Chicago on the WA22+T-1's.  I was listening and it sounded like I had the speakers running, took off the headphones and............no speakers on.  Wow!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I had a headphone nirvana experience I've never had before the Woo.  I was listening to a FLAC live recording of Jeff Beck playing at the Park West Chicago on the WA22+T-1's.  I was listening and it sounded like I had the speakers running, took off the headphones and............no speakers on.  Wow!


 
  Cool.  Isn't it great when this happens!


----------



## Silent One

Heads up~
   
  HDtracks now offering 192kHz/24-bit downloads on selected tracks...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I had a headphone nirvana experience I've never had before the Woo.  I was listening to a FLAC live recording of Jeff Beck playing at the Park West Chicago on the WA22+T-1's.  I was listening and it sounded like I had the speakers running, took off the headphones and............no speakers on.  Wow!


 

 Beck live + WA22 + T-1??? Hope you weren't rudely interrupted during _that _session...


----------



## MacedonianHero

So today I had my first audio purchase of the New Year. I had a moratorium for the last quarter of 2010, boy did I hold out deep into 2011...I waited until January 6th before I took the plunge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had thought of the DNA Sonnett with is a beautiful looking amp, but some reports from people I really respect around here of it being not the greatest to keep up with the 600 ohm T1s had me go with the WA2.
   
  I just ordered the WA2 from Jack. Should be here in 2 weeks. I am definitely still keeping my MAD transformer coupled amp to drive my RS1i (best combo I've heard yet) and my Ed. 8s (I prefer this amp with them over the Concerto). I plan to use the WA2 to drive my T1s/HD800s and LCD-2s. So that kinda leaves my Concerto as odd man out. I guess, I'm just a tube guy. I won't sell my Concerto until the WA2 arrives for some A-B comparisons first.
   
  Now the let the waiting begin.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> I am just about to order a WA2, been emailing back and forth with Jack about WA6 SE vs WA2 for vinyl source and RS1i.
> 
> I noticed most everyone here says go WA6 SE but Jack seems to say WA2 has better synergy. What you guys think?


 


  Interesting...I would also go with Jack (he would know), but an OTL amp is usually not ideal for low impedance (non-planar) cans. Interesting...I will see how it compares to my MAD Amp....very interesting.


----------



## Skylab

Welcome to the Woo Club, Peter! Glad to have you here.


----------



## stufaro

Quote: 





> Interesting...I would also go with Jack (he would know), but an OTL amp is usually not ideal for low impedance (non-planar) cans. Interesting...I will see how it compares to my MAD Amp....very interesting.


 
  I thought so too, he firmly stated that it works extremely well with low Z cans like the RS1i. I asked him several times. I am gonna take the plunge and order the stock WA2 in black. its in the shopping cart I just have to pull the trigger.......was going to go with the MAD Ear + HD for the RS1 but the looks, 4 inputs, and the preamp function of the WA2 have me on board.


----------



## jerico

Hero - I'm curious to know how the WA2 handles the LCD2s.  My trigger finger has been a bit itchy there, to have as a companion to my T1s with my WA22!
   
  Ice - you know what I mean, right?!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you can wait a couple of weeks, I should have some impressions for you between the two amps. While I am sure that Jack is bang on right that they would sound great (as the WA2 is a powerful amp) with the RS1s, I am still thinking the MAD Ear+HD is the better pairing....but we shall see.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Welcome to the Woo Club, Peter! Glad to have you here.


 


  Thanks Rob. I needed a Woo Amp to match my Woo Headphone Stand.


----------



## sillysally

Jack seems to have the EML 5U4G in stock now.


----------



## WindyCityCy

How you like the DAC2 with the WA22 and Mac Mini?  I'm splitting time between my Squeezebox Touch and a Windows 7 laptop.  Always planned on going to a Mac someday but been holding out waiting to see if blu-ray will ever make it in one.
   
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hero - I'm curious to know how the WA2 handles the LCD2s.  My trigger finger has been a bit itchy there, to have as a companion to my T1s with my WA22!
> 
> Ice - you know what I mean, right?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> How you like the DAC2 with the WA22 and Mac Mini?  I'm splitting time between my Squeezebox Touch and a Windows 7 laptop.  Always planned on going to a Mac someday but been holding out waiting to see if blu-ray will ever make it in one.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Steve Jobs believes the future is in downloads/streaming, not Blu-ray. My music server is a 2010 Mac mini... love it!

http://www.9to5mac.com/45693/steve-jobs-upgrades-bluray-from-bag-of-hurt-to-mafia-and-other-rumors


----------



## WindyCityCy

Well I guess I can get a Mac Mini instead of that much more expensive iMac I was hoping to buy ... this kind of closed-thinking is not driving me to adopt spend more with Apple but less since I won't be paying apple to download content in less-than Blu-Ray quality.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> ...
> I just ordered the WA2 from Jack. Should be here in 2 weeks. I am definitely still keeping my MAD transformer coupled amp to drive my RS1i (best combo I've heard yet) and my Ed. 8s (I prefer this amp with them over the Concerto). I plan to use the WA2 to drive my T1s/HD800s and LCD-2s. So that kinda leaves my Concerto as odd man out. I guess, I'm just a tube guy. I won't sell my Concerto until the WA2 arrives for some A-B comparisons first.


 




   
  Looking forward to your impressions: the WA2 is my shortlist as well as the T1/LCD-2...so definitely interested in your opinion.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> WA22 and WA6 drive LCD-2 with no problem, but not as good as liquild fire amp. I am still using a pair of GEC 6AS7G and NU round plate 6F8G with EML 5U4G mesh plate. I am happier tham S**t now. *Note: WA22 drive LCD-2 on high setting better.*


 
   
  Seamaster, I've been trying to get my head around this. Do you think that the cutoff for the High/Low impedance switch on the WA22 could be as low as 50 ohms, or is the LCD-2 presenting some kind of weird anomaly as a current-hungry ortho?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Well I guess I can get a Mac Mini instead of that much more expensive iMac I was hoping to buy ... this kind of closed-thinking is not driving me to adopt spend more with Apple but less since I won't be paying apple to download content in less-than Blu-Ray quality.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 My understanding is that the Mac can't handle larger sample sizes.  Is that true or am I mistaken?


----------



## Icenine2

J,
   
  I do know what you mean about the LCD's.


----------



## Icenine2

The impedance switch on the 22 is 50 ohms unless I'm mistaken.


----------



## Skylab

Just note that if the impedance switch is just changing the output impedance of the amp, this isn't going to have a huge sonic impact on the LCD-2 in the way it would a dynamic headphone, since the LCD-2 isn't subject to damping factor issues like a dynamic-driver would be.


----------



## stufaro

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> If you can wait a couple of weeks, I should have some impressions for you between the two amps. While I am sure that Jack is bang on right that they would sound great (as the WA2 is a powerful amp) with the RS1s, I am still thinking the MAD Ear+HD is the better pairing....but we shall see.


 


  That might be a good idea as I have waited a while already. I need something that is going to be a dramatic improvement as the sound I am getting out of the receiver is just so sub par and underwhelming


----------



## jerico

Hi Windy -
   
  I love the DAC2/WA22 combo so far, with a few caveats:
   
  (1) I am using a stock USB cable (I ordered an Audioquest Carbon for it a month ago - it shipped yesterday)
  (2) Every once in a while, I get a kernel panic (I use it with a headless Mac Mini running iTunes/PureMusic)
  (3) On occasion, I've heard some weird things - like portions of songs repeating.  My guess is this has something to do with the DAC2's interaction with PureMusic.
   
  Unfortunately, I don't have any like-for-like comparisons for this setup.  I have a Benchmark DAC1 USB in my speaker system, and have run the T1s through them (didn't like that so much - it was rather metallic sounding), but I never had the Benchmark hooked up to the Woo, nor the DAC2 hooked into my speaker system.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> The impedance switch on the 22 is 50 ohms unless I'm mistaken.


 
    
  Quote:


skylab said:


> Just note that if the impedance switch is just changing the output impedance of the amp, this isn't going to have a huge sonic impact on the LCD-2 in the way it would a dynamic headphone, since the LCD-2 isn't subject to damping factor issues like a dynamic-driver would be.


 

  
  Thank you both. It's no wonder then that I can't hear a difference, but evidently seamaster can.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hi Windy -
> 
> I love the DAC2/WA22 combo so far, with a few caveats:
> 
> ...


 

  
  How does the Benchmark DAC1 perform with the PureMusic software, any issues like with the W4S DAC2?


----------



## jerico

Nope - I've never noticed anything when using the Benchmark with PureMusic.  I chalk it up to the W4S/DAC2 using proprietary drivers for async USB, whereas the Benchmark does not require external drivers (and does not use async USB).


----------



## grokit

That makes sense, thanks jerico!


----------



## jgonino

Hello all, Im considering picking up either a 6, 6se or 2 for the heart of my new system. Its going to be used in combination with k701's as well as DT990's (600 ohm) and maybe some grado's or ultrasones later on.
   
  Music is mostly metal, as well as some jazz and classical. Source is currently up for debate, but im looking at either a yulong or a stello da100.
   
  Based on this, which amp would you recommend? My budget is about 1400-1600 for the amp and a DAC or cdp + dac.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Just note that if the impedance switch is just changing the output impedance of the amp, this isn't going to have a huge sonic impact on the LCD-2 in the way it would a dynamic headphone, since the LCD-2 isn't subject to damping factor issues like a dynamic-driver would be.


 

 Nope, it changes which transformer tap is being used for the headphones - one setting is for low impedance phones and the other for high impedance phones, like the switch on the back of the WA6.


----------



## Braver

Well my WA6 has arrived and it's a beautiful piece of kit. Heavy! Love the tubes and the way they light up.
   
  Now if only there was sound coming out of the right channel... Still trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong, but it kinda looks like this needs to be going back on a trip halfway around the world... crap


----------



## Braver

Left channel does sound nice though...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





braver said:


> Well my WA6 has arrived and it's a beautiful piece of kit. Heavy! Love the tubes and the way they light up.
> 
> Now if only there was sound coming out of the right channel... Still trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong, but it kinda looks like this needs to be going back on a trip halfway around the world... crap


 

 Did you pursue the usual troubleshooting tips? Swap headphones to eliminate that possibility; switch tubes in right-left socket...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Changing the output transformer tap is exactly how to change the output impedance


----------



## Braver

silent one said:


> Did you pursue the usual troubleshooting tips? Swap headphones to eliminate that possibility; switch tubes in right-left socket...





 


Yeah, I did. Jack responded promptly with a couple of things to try, so I'll give it another shot. In a way I'm glad this happened with something built by people like the Woos, rather than something Chinese from EBay...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





braver said:


> Yeah, I did. Jack responded promptly with a couple of things to try, so I'll give it another shot. In a way I'm glad this happened with something built by people like the Woos, rather than something Chinese from EBay...


 

 Great customer service is underrated. One could have a really good amp yet, not feel really good about it based on bad experiences. I'm impressed with Woo Audio's build quality and business sense. High on my next New York itinerary: a visit to Woo Audio and the McIntosh factory. Best of luck with your '6.'


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





braver said:


> Well my WA6 has arrived and it's a beautiful piece of kit. Heavy! Love the tubes and the way they light up.
> 
> Now if only there was sound coming out of the right channel... Still trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong, but it kinda looks like this needs to be going back on a trip halfway around the world... crap


 


  It's much more likely you have a bad tube than anything being wrong with the amp itself.  I would purchase a second set of tubes to verify before sending the amp anywhere.  You'll catch the bug and want to buy tubes sooner or later anyway.


----------



## Braver

xcalibur255 said:


> It's much more likely you have a bad tube than anything being wrong with the amp itself.  I would purchase a second set of tubes to verify before sending the amp anywhere.  You'll catch the bug and want to buy tubes sooner or later anyway.





 


Lol, yeah, I've a bunch of tubes lying around ever since ordering the wa6, waiting to be rolled  

Anyway, it works now, not sure what did it... Just followed Jack's tips on reinstalling and reconnecting everything... Let me just repeat my reaction to Jack: "I do not comprehend why, because I changed tubes this morning, reconnected it twice, and it didn't help. But now it's fixed. And my god, it sounds wondrous. Thank you, thank you, thank you! "

w00t


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





braver said:


> Lol, yeah, I've a bunch of tubes lying around ever since ordering the wa6, waiting to be rolled
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And the Dutch can be seen _dancing in the streets_ (Braver & friends anyway) from way out in... North America?! In a nod to your relief, will raise my headphones tonight when I sit down with my WA6SE.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## SpudHarris

I'm very pleased it worked out Braver, a relief for you not having to send that huge lump of metal back, I'm made up for you.
   
  I am feeling a little pleased with myself this evening as I managed to set up my slick wireless feed from my PC. Not a big deal for a lot of you guys but for me, hmmm. I now have my PC running my lossless itunes library to an Apple TV box then optical into a DACmagic and into the WA6. My library is controlled wirelessly by my ipod Touch, its all very slick and to my ears (first listen tonight) it sounds mighty fine. Another plus is the volume level which with my imod straight into the WA6 was pretty much maxxed out, now the pc and itunes volume levels can be adjusted to suit.
   
  I'm chilling now with my notebook on my lap and a glass of Irish by my side feeling good. That is, until I think about having spent most of my WA22 fund on all the above. Ho hum....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm very pleased it worked out Braver, a relief for you not having to send that huge lump of metal back, I'm made up for you.
> 
> I am feeling a little pleased with myself this evening as I managed to set up my slick wireless feed from my PC. Not a big deal for a lot of you guys but for me, hmmm. I now have my PC running my lossless itunes library to an Apple TV box then optical into a DACmagic and into the WA6. My library is controlled wirelessly by my ipod Touch, its all very slick and to my ears (first listen tonight) it sounds mighty fine. Another plus is the volume level which with my imod straight into the WA6 was pretty much maxxed out, now the pc and itunes volume levels can be adjusted to suit.
> 
> I'm chilling now with my notebook on my lap and a glass of Irish by my side feeling good. That is, until I think about having spent most of my WA22 fund on all the above. Ho hum....


 

 From where I sit (inside my listening room at this writing), you'd be luxuriating either way. Difference being your approach. You're destined to have a brilliant night!


----------



## jerico

Grats, Braver! Glad it is all sorted.

Pics!?


----------



## Carmantom

Quote: 





braver said:


> Lol, yeah, I've a bunch of tubes lying around ever since ordering the wa6, waiting to be rolled
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You've not heard much anything yet.  After some break-in you will be more amazed.  Enjoy!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I'm very pleased it worked out Braver, a relief for you not having to send that huge lump of metal back, I'm made up for you.
> 
> I am feeling a little pleased with myself this evening as I managed to set up my slick wireless feed from my PC. Not a big deal for a lot of you guys but for me, hmmm. I now have my PC running my lossless itunes library to an Apple TV box then optical into a DACmagic and into the WA6. My library is controlled wirelessly by my ipod Touch, its all very slick and to my ears (first listen tonight) it sounds mighty fine. Another plus is the volume level which with my imod straight into the WA6 was pretty much maxxed out, now the pc and itunes volume levels can be adjusted to suit.
> 
> I'm chilling now with my notebook on my lap and a glass of Irish by my side feeling good. That is, until I think about having spent most of my WA22 fund on all the above. Ho hum....


 

 Spud,
   
  Sounds like quite the setup, glad the music sounds good and you feel like you accomplished something.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My understanding was it changed the ratio of voltage reduction from the tubes via transformer, so that the tubes output voltage wouldn't be loaded down too much with too low of a headphone impedance.  I thought the WA6 had a fairly low output impedance regardless of which transformer tap you used.  Thanks for edumacating me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My understanding was it changed the ratio of voltage reduction from the tubes via transformer, so that the tubes output voltage wouldn't be loaded down too much with too low of a headphone impedance.  I thought the WA6 had a fairly low output impedance regardless of which transformer tap you used.  Thanks for edumacating me.


 

 Well, there are different ways to skin a cat, but typically the output transformer is providing different taps of different impedance.  I'm not certain this is what the Woo switch does, but I would be surprised if it doesn't switch taps.


----------



## Braver

Quote: 





carmantom said:


> You've not heard much anything yet.  After some break-in you will be more amazed.  Enjoy!


 

 I know! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's already showing so much more resolution on the HD580 than I was used to though. The Arietta I had never displayed the difference between my CDP and Ipod as clearly as this thing does: appreciating the NAD a lot more now 
   
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> Grats, Braver! Glad it is all sorted.
> 
> Pics!?


 

 I won't do the unpacking thing (kinda looks like all other WA6's anyway), but I will update my avatar in a sec


----------



## jerico

Sweet.  It's nice to them "in the wild" (ie in your/a system)!


----------



## SpudHarris

Any of you guys streaming wirelessly?
   
  I had quite a listening session last night with my new set up and on a number of tracks with quiet passages I could hear a very faint ticking/clicking, barely audiable but you know how it is and now I'm listening out for it all the time. Any ideas guys?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Any of you guys streaming wirelessly?
> 
> I had quite a listening session last night with my new set up and on a number of tracks with quiet passages I could hear a very faint ticking/clicking, barely audiable but you know how it is and now I'm listening out for it all the time. Any ideas guys?


 

 What is the pattern and duration of the clicking?  Is it a cycling ticking, or a ticking that is the same volume all the time?


----------



## SpudHarris

It's difficult to descibe because it's so quiet. I listen to a lot of Ambient Trance/Chillout which can have this type of sound effect. At first I thought that's what it was, a transient detail that I hadn't picked out before maybe? Unfortunately I can hear the same ticking on almost everything and it's the same volume and speed.
   
  Maybe interference or something coming from my pc?


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> It's difficult to descibe because it's so quiet. I listen to a lot of Ambient Trance/Chillout which can have this type of sound effect. At first I thought that's what it was, a transient detail that I hadn't picked out before maybe? Unfortunately I can hear the same ticking on almost everything and it's the same volume and speed.
> 
> Maybe interference or something coming from my pc?


 


  This sounds more like a DAC issue to me.  Either that, or something in the ripped files themselves.  What resolution are these files ripped to, and what software and box did you use to rip them?


----------



## jax

Regarding the hi/lo taps on the WA6(SE) when using the LCD-2:  For some odd reason I get better results coming from the High tap off of my WA6SEm.  It seems to give the midrange a bit of a slight bump to my ears, whereas the low tap, in comparison occurs to me as a bit flatter.  I've gone back and forth on several different cuts of music, and on a few occasions now, and with two different DACs in place.  It seems consistent to me, in spite of the actual impedance of those cans being low.  I'm not doing a controlled experiment by matching levels though  - this is just a gut response and my wee brain could be playing tricks on me.   Anyone else with a WA6(SE) experience that?  I don't know if the standard WA6 implements the same specs to the switching in back, and thereby yields similar results, but that's what I've been hearing.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Everything I have is either Apple Lossless ripped from my own CD's or a few downloads origionally Flac or Wav but converted to Apple Lossless everythings been fine untill now so I'm assuming it's something in the chain of my new set up.
   
  Just for clarity this is: PC (itunes) > Apple TV > Dacmagic > WA6.
   
  I'm going to have another listen tonight but use my backup hard drive as my itunes media feed. I read somewhere that the hard drive could be passing this down the line....


----------



## jerico

Maybe try changing the WIFI broadcast channel on your router?


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If it's happening on all of your files which originated from more than one source then I would look at the DACmagic or Apple TV. Clicking sounds that are regular sound like some sort of clocking or timing artifact to me.  I asked about the rips because I did have an Apple Laptop (older one) that would consistently produce odd digital artifacts at the end of every rip done on it.  I took it to the Genius Bar and they did confirm it, but could not come up with a solution except to uncheck ErrorCorrection which was unacceptable to me.  I stopped ripping on that laptop and eventually retired it with extreme prejudice.  Does the AppleTV have it's own DAC?  If so try streaming straight through that and see if it happens.  Also try the DAC Magic hard wired and remove the AppleTV from the equation.  That'd be my approach.  I doubt it's a hard drive issue (I've never heard of such a thing).  You might try posting over at Computer Audiophile too.


----------



## SpudHarris

Jerico, thanks I'll look at that.
   
  Jax, again thanks for your ideas I will try and fathum it tonight. Apart from this anoying part everything else sounds very special.
   
  I'll sign off now and try the points you guys raised.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jax said:


> Regarding the hi/lo taps on the WA6(SE) when using the LCD-2:  For some odd reason I get better results coming from the High tap off of my WA6SEm.  It seems to give the midrange a bit of a slight bump to my ears, whereas the low tap, in comparison occurs to me as a bit flatter.  I've gone back and forth on several different cuts of music, and on a few occasions now, and with two different DACs in place.  It seems consistent to me, in spite of the actual impedance of those cans being low.  I'm not doing a controlled experiment by matching levels though  - this is just a gut response and my wee brain could be playing tricks on me.   Anyone else with a WA6(SE) experience that?  I don't know if the standard WA6 implements the same specs to the switching in back, and thereby yields similar results, but that's what I've been hearing.


 
   
  Well if the WA6SE has the same 50 ohm cutoff for those taps that was recently reported for the WA22 impedance selector, then the impedance output choice may not be the reason. Perhaps the higher impedance selection is delivering more current to the LCD-2; as orthos they would lap this additional current right up and up their performance accordingly.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Any of you guys streaming wirelessly?
> 
> I had quite a listening session last night with my new set up and on a number of tracks with quiet passages I could hear a very faint ticking/clicking, barely audiable but you know how it is and now I'm listening out for it all the time. Any ideas guys?


 
  Yes, I have been listening wireless streaming for a while and absolutely love it.  There is no noise what so every, it is much better than using my MBP with USB.


----------



## Carmantom

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Any of you guys streaming wirelessly?
> 
> I had quite a listening session last night with my new set up and on a number of tracks with quiet passages I could hear a very faint ticking/clicking, barely audiable but you know how it is and now I'm listening out for it all the time. Any ideas guys?


 
  I have streamed wireless for quite awhile.  I can't imagine it possible to be pc related, given it is simply a data stream.  It seems it would be hardware or tube related.  I would start rolling a few tubes.
  Good luck!


----------



## jgonino

Alright folks I just took the plunge. I snagged that wa2 from the FS forums. It's going to be working in conjunction with my new yulong da100 and dt 990s!


----------



## jerico

Woohoo!  Well done!


----------



## avsBuddy

Guys here are some intimate pictures that my newly arrived WA2 wants to share with you.
  More glamorous pictures to come later.
   

   

  Black Gate Output Caps.
   

  Right channel and DACT2.
   

  Note that ICE inlet is hard soldered and masked with epoxy, so if you want to upgrade to a Furutech or some other high-end inletet you bettor off having Jack do it at the build time. Too late for me, but stock ICE seems of high quality, so I don't fret.
   
  Enjoy


----------



## DeadWather

how well it will work with sennheiser hd600?


----------



## avsBuddy

WA2 works great with my Senn HD600. Very musical, detailed, non fatiguing. I only have build in head amps to compare to, but my Senn never sounded so good before.


----------



## DeadWather

how they sound c wooaudio wa6?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





deadwather said:


> how they sound c wooaudio wa6?


 


  WA2 sound much better than WA6 with HD600, WA works really well with high impedance phones.


----------



## DeadWather

oh, its not good...


----------



## Clayton SF

WOW. Beautiful. My WA2's stepped attenuator is a Goldpoint and there is no sign of epoxy masking anywhere. Perhaps Jack has added epoxy for sonic reasons. Even though the innards are sparse it is still able to produce sound that is incredibly detailed in structure and form--solid sound structure. Congrats!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jax said:


> Regarding the hi/lo taps on the WA6(SE) when using the LCD-2:  For some odd reason I get better results coming from the High tap off of my WA6SEm.  It seems to give the midrange a bit of a slight bump to my ears, whereas the low tap, in comparison occurs to me as a bit flatter.  I've gone back and forth on several different cuts of music, and on a few occasions now, and with two different DACs in place.  It seems consistent to me, in spite of the actual impedance of those cans being low.  I'm not doing a controlled experiment by matching levels though  - this is just a gut response and my wee brain could be playing tricks on me.   Anyone else with a WA6(SE) experience that?  I don't know if the standard WA6 implements the same specs to the switching in back, and thereby yields similar results, but that's what I've been hearing.


 

 While both my amp and headphones are different, I felt it worth mentioning I hear the same thing you do on my WA6.  Switching to the low impedance setting results in a sound that is perceived as flatter with less "push" in the midrange.  Even while attempting to match volume (since that will of course affect perception) the High setting seems to be a fuller sound overall.  I used to think low level detail was better on the Low setting, but I realized it isn't better but rather just a bit easier to identify right away because the sound is thinner.


----------



## vinyllp33

A most excellent combination!


----------



## SpudHarris

For those who have commented reference my recent issue with streaming and the clicking noise I was hearing I have found the culprit. I'm not sure what to do about it but that's another story.
   
  Apple TV (which is shown as an icon on my itunes page as an external speaker) when activated makes the clicking noise. When the computor speakers are activated only there is no clicking. What are you guys using to stream to your DAC' etc?


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> For those who have commented reference my recent issue with streaming and the clicking noise I was hearing I have found the culprit. I'm not sure what to do about it but that's another story.
> 
> Apple TV (which is shown as an icon on my itunes page as an external speaker) when activated makes the clicking noise. When the computor speakers are activated only there is no clicking. What are you guys using to stream to your DAC' etc?


 


  Glad you nailed it.  I use Airport Extreme Base Station to stream.  No problems.  My receiver is a Squeezebox Touch.


----------



## dminches

I am completely hardwired in my set up.  For 16/44.1 sources I think wireless is fine.  When you start to get up to 24/96 and beyond, I am more comfortable with wired.  24/96 sources require 4.4 Mbs so any strong wireless signal should cover this but this also assumes there is no competition for band width in your home.


----------



## hotubei

Hi, woo-mates! Not sure as this has been chewed on, but anyone else tried WA22 with HE-6 yet? My trial run wasn't that much success, even though mine is 2W it sounded quite thin and I had to take it up to past 4pm for some meat. It was too loud then and didn't give me any joy  so to say. Anyone else?


----------



## Edi

Hello everyone!
   
  After asking some recommendations, doing lots of reading, and talking with Jack, I purchased a WA6-SE along with Beyer T1's last week. Awaiting for shipment now. Upgrading from a Darkvoice 3322 and HD650s. Can't wait for arrival!


----------



## nigeljames

My T1's arrived a few days ago,still burning them in but will say that they sound extremely fast,clear,clean and detailed out of the Woo6se. Oh and very musical and exciting


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> For those who have commented reference my recent issue with streaming and the clicking noise I was hearing I have found the culprit. I'm not sure what to do about it but that's another story.
> 
> Apple TV (which is shown as an icon on my itunes page as an external speaker) when activated makes the clicking noise. When the computor speakers are activated only there is no clicking. What are you guys using to stream to your DAC' etc?


 


   I have an iMac and my files are AppleLoseLess reciding in an external 1T hard drive. My network is an Apple Exteme as router and I have 2 Apple Express set up at network extenders in the house.
   
  In one of my systems I have the etehrnet output of the Airport Express connected to a Squeezbox and the digital output of it to a Genesis Ditgital Time Lens and from there to my Modified PerfectWave Dac.
   
  In my other system I have the same set up as in the onther one but also I have connected the Airport Express Toslink output to the Genesis so I can steeam either using the squeezebox or Airtunes.
  At the begining there waqs a difference in sound where the Squeezebox souded better. I finally fgured out that the Sound Enhancer option in iTunes actually makes the sound sound strange. After I defeted that option and equalizer the sound was the same from both and with not clicks or noise.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have an iMac and my files are AppleLoseLess reciding in an external 1T hard drive. My network is an Apple Exteme as router and I have 2 Apple Express set up at network extenders in the house.
> 
> In one of my systems I have the etehrnet output of the Airport Express connected to a Squeezbox and the digital output of it to a *Genesis Ditgital Time Lens and from there to my Modified PerfectWave Dac*.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using the Genesis Digital Time Lens for Optical and Coaxial input of PWD?  Not sure if the Genesis is better than PWD's own digital lens.  If my memory still serves me right, the Genesis is development by Paul too.


----------



## jc9394

Woohoo, just paid for the LCD-2.  Can't wait to try it on WA22...


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have an iMac and my files are AppleLoseLess reciding in an external 1T hard drive. My network is an Apple Exteme as router and I have 2 Apple Express set up at network extenders in the house.
> 
> In one of my systems I have the etehrnet output of the Airport Express connected to a Squeezbox and the digital output of it to a Genesis Ditgital Time Lens and from there to my Modified PerfectWave Dac.
> 
> ...


 

 Wow that sounds complicated, I'm in awe....
   
  Will the airport express work with my own wireless router? Also do you need an adapter for the digital out? It just looks like a standard 3.5mm jack.
   
  I am ready to throw the Apple TV in the bin, it's so frustrating having what I hoped to be the purfect/slick set up fall over. I connected my Dacmagic to my PC via USB and turned off the Apple TV speaker and it worked perfectly.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hotubei said:


> Hi, woo-mates! Not sure as this has been chewed on, but anyone else tried WA22 with HE-6 yet? My trial run wasn't that much success, even though mine is 2W it sounded quite thin and I had to take it up to past 4pm for some meat. It was too loud then and didn't give me any joy  so to say. Anyone else?


 
   
  I too was hoping for a good match with my (2 watt also) WA22 with the new "more efficient" production model HE-6. It was a fail, there just isn't enough current there to give the HE-6 a proper ride. Try a 10-100 wpc speaker amp for the difference the additional headroom can make, mainly in imaging, soundstage, as well as overall speed and dynamics. Just think K1000 amping requirements for the HE-6. You will obviously need a speaker tap adapter (again just like the K1000), there is much more on this in the main HE-6 thread. I ended up constructing a different balanced setup (not quite done) with an Alesis RA150 pro audio NFM amp, leaving my WA22 system for other headphones.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Are you using the Genesis Digital Time Lens for Optical and Coaxial input of PWD?  Not sure if the Genesis is better than PWD's own digital lens.  If my memory still serves me right, the Genesis is development by Paul too.


 


   Yes, both imputs coming from the computer files are going to the Genesis. The PWD by itself does not have a Lens. The Lens comes in the Bridge only. My PWD does not have the Bridge yet.
   
  My CD Trnasport output goes directly to the PWD.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Wow that sounds complicated, I'm in awe....
> 
> Will the airport express work with my own wireless router? Also do you need an adapter for the digital out? It just looks like a standard 3.5mm jack.
> 
> I am ready to throw the Apple TV in the bin, it's so frustrating having what I hoped to be the purfect/slick set up fall over. I connected my Dacmagic to my PC via USB and turned off the Apple TV speaker and it worked perfectly.


 


   It sounds complicated but it isnot at all. I think you can make the Aiport Express with another brand of routers but it can get complicated. I used to have a Linksys routher but it was giving me a lot of issues even with output signal amplifiers and high gain anntenas so I decided to replace it with the Aiprot Extreme.... One of the best decisions I have made. The Extreme is a breeze to set up (basically it does everything for you) and all drop outs and issues went away.
   
  The Airport Express audio out has a dual function. It is a 3.5mm jack for analog output but also it is a mini Tosklink output in the same hole. There is special Toslink cables with mini in one side and regular in the other or there are adapters from regular to mini. You can find them very cheap in Amazon. I bought the adapetr to try it out thinking in buying a WireWorld mini to regualr later.
   
  If your computer is a Mac I would not think twice to replace your router with an Extreme.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I used the AppleTV for a long time and only moved over to the Wadia i170 so I could get off of optical and on to coax.  I connected the AppleTV to a Monarchy DIP and then from the DIP to my PS Audio DAC and everything sounded as good ast 41kHz could sound.  Don't know why it is giving you troubles.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Yes, both imputs coming from the computer files are going to the Genesis. The PWD by itself does not have a Lens. The Lens comes in the Bridge only. My PWD does not have the Bridge yet.
> 
> My CD Trnasport output goes directly to the PWD.





 


Isn't the I2S has digital lens too? That was my impression when I feed PWT to PWD before using the Bridge.


----------



## jc9394

Any WA22 owners hav LCD-2? What tubes you are using? I'm trying to get the sens of best combo to use when m LCD-2 arrive on Wednesday. I'm thinking to use TS5998, TS 6F8G, and EML 274M. Th TS5998 should have enough gain for the LCD-2.


----------



## Carmantom

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> For those who have commented reference my recent issue with streaming and the clicking noise I was hearing I have found the culprit. I'm not sure what to do about it but that's another story.
> 
> Apple TV (which is shown as an icon on my itunes page as an external speaker) when activated makes the clicking noise. When the computor speakers are activated only there is no clicking. What are you guys using to stream to your DAC' etc?


 

 I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how that would cause clicking.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  I have been using Squeezebox3 Duet made by Logitech for 3 years now.  I couldn't be happier.


----------



## Carmantom

Quote: 





edi said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> After asking some recommendations, doing lots of reading, and talking with Jack, I purchased a WA6-SE along with Beyer T1's last week. Awaiting for shipment now. Upgrading from a Darkvoice 3322 and HD650s. Can't wait for arrival!


 

 Welcome Edi  You will no doubt love your WA6 SE as I know I have.  I love my HD600s w/ it.  Loads of tuberolling possibilities.  Many of which are shared in this forum.  Have fun.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I don't think so. As far as I know the I2S signal is a native signal that do not contain any jitter by nature therefore no Lens required. The Lens is basically a digital buffer that process and cleans the digital signal. It is very useful specially with computer files or digital connection using Toslink due to be more influenced by jitter.
   
  Here is what the PWD says about I2S:
  "I2S is available (at the point of this writing) only through other PS Audio equipment such as the PerfectWave Transport or the upcoming PS Audio Digital Lens. I2S is a parallel data connection with separate clocks and data and transferred via an HDMI cable. I2S will always provide a better performance standard than any serial data stream such as S/PDIF or AES/EBU."


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woohoo, just paid for the LCD-2.  Can't wait to try it on WA22...


 


  Looking forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





carmantom said:


> I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how that would cause clicking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Do you use itunes with your Squeezebox? I really want to keep using my touch as the remote controlling my itunes from my pc. I have a call logged with Apple Support but having searched pretty much every forum I can find on the subject I'm not finding this as a common fault so not hopefull that they'll help much....


----------



## Seld

Sorry if my question has already been made... but it's difficult to search in this long life thread.
   
  I have a WA6 with a EML 274B and two Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT Matched Pair with adapters... listening with my HD650 is really really good, but what I would like to have is a little more highs.
  So... I am planning to go to an Audeze LCD2 and wondering if this set of tube will be ok to drive it giving me an upgrade for my actual setup.
  Any suggestion or experience?
   
  Another little question ('cause of my ignorance, I'm pretty new in hifi) is: how much life will have this set of tubes? The sound is really beautiful, but I hope not to have to buy a new set every 600 hours...
   
  Thank you very much, headfiers!


----------



## Auderoine

Not yet an owner, but after a long listening session to a WA6SE w/ HD600s (including in-house cable mod) at 32 Ohm in Portland, I was really blown away.  The fullness the amp brought out of the headphones was a real treat for my (admittedly still novice) ears.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

seld said:


> Sorry if my question has already been made... but it's difficult to search in this long life thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 


I would consider getting a pair of Sylvania VT-231 or Bad Boys to bring out the highs with either the HD650 or LCD-2.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a few Squeezeboxen and AFAIK, the Squeezeboxen can not use iTunes and will not play any files that are DRM (if that's the right term). You can howerver play any mp3 or flac or alac (apple lossless) that's not DRM.

  This is the best place to search for an answer: http://forums.slimdevices.com/


----------



## grokit

The iTunes Store hasn't sold DRM music for quite a while now, and it lets you convert your old stuff to a higher bit rate while stripping the DRM from it for a nominal one-time fee.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I have a few Squeezeboxen and AFAIK, the Squeezeboxen can not use iTunes and will not play any files that are DRM (if that's the right term). You can howerver play any mp3 or flac or alac (apple lossless) that's not DRM.
> 
> This is the best place to search for an answer: http://forums.slimdevices.com/


 


   I have 2 squeezebox units in my home and I have been running them for at least 4 years using iTunes files from the very beginning. I have never had a problem with any files.


----------



## jerico

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woohoo, just paid for the LCD-2.  Can't wait to try it on WA22...


 


  I ordered them too (over the past weekend)!  I went with balanced (ALO).
   
  Hope it sounds good with our 22's!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I ordered them too (over the past weekend)!  I went with balanced (ALO).
> 
> Hope it sounds good with our 22's!


 

 It will arrive tomorrow, let's hope the snow will not affect FedEx.


----------



## SpudHarris

Well I am encouraged that people are using Squeezeboxes with their itunes because the Apple TV device went back today. After a lengthy chat with Apple Care it seems the unit was faulty or just not up to the task for dedicated audio. I bet the ticking/clicking probably wouldn't be a problem in an open listening environment as they were quite minor but to my bat ears via my T1's I could not ignore them.
   
  My Squeezebox gets here tomorrow and I'm told I can control the itunes interface with my ipod touch remote app so hopefully tomorrow evening I'll be able to post something positive.
   
  Thanks to all you guys who tried to help me out though, I do appreciate it a lot


----------



## Shinsengumi

I have seen questions about how LCD-2 pairing up with WA22. There are also some of you that have an order on LCD-2. 

I can say that the match is very good. But take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am not that experienced.

I had Sophia princess, TS6SN7-GTB and TS5998. And it sounded great with stock cable and single ended. Not as large soundstage as HD800 in balanced mode, but with a full-bodied sound that I liked. But I missed the clarity and soundstage from the HD800 a bit. I bought Silver Dragon balanced and LCD-2 opened up quite a bit. Then I bought EML5U4G and the clarity got even better, and I guess as a result, better soundstage and even tighter and better bas. Now I don't miss HD800 at all, I will sell it. But that is my humble opinion.

Now my next step is to change my DAC.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shinsengumi said:


> I have seen questions about how LCD-2 pairing up with WA22. There are also some of you that have an order on LCD-2.
> 
> I can say that the match is very good. But take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am not that experienced.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the impression, we share the same headphones and really appreciate your comments.  I'm planning to use TS5998, TS6F8G, and EML 274b or 5U4G.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Perhaps I misunderstood the OP's question. Squeezebox uses an open source application to control what ever NON drm files are in a library. "iTunes" as an app will not control a Squeezebox. (Now I'm wondering if I understand what iTunes is) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   I don't have mp3 files, only flac. I thought that iTunes was a player type app.
  Sorry if I didn't understand.


----------



## jerico

Quote: 





shinsengumi said:


> I have seen questions about how LCD-2 pairing up with WA22. There are also some of you that have an order on LCD-2.
> 
> I can say that the match is very good. But take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am not that experienced.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Good info - thanks, Shinsengumi!
   
  General question - does using a balanced input on a WA22/LCD-2 combo makes a big difference in the ability of the amp to drive the LCD-2s?  I run my DAC balanced into my 22 already - but I'm curious if the difference between balanced/single ended "makes or breaks" the viability of the combo.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Well I am encouraged that people are using Squeezeboxes with their itunes because the Apple TV device went back today. After a lengthy chat with Apple Care it seems the unit was faulty or just not up to the task for dedicated audio. I bet the ticking/clicking probably wouldn't be a problem in an open listening environment as they were quite minor but to my bat ears via my T1's I could not ignore them.
> 
> My Squeezebox gets here tomorrow and I'm told I can control the itunes interface with my ipod touch remote app so hopefully tomorrow evening I'll be able to post something positive.
> 
> Thanks to all you guys who tried to help me out though, I do appreciate it a lot


 

 You might also want to consider downloading the iPeng app for your iPod Touch - it is a more comprehensive sofware to manage your Squeezebox from your iPod.  I have not, however, found it to be very intuitive, but certainly more powerful than using Remote.  Not only can you use your iTunes library via a Squeezebox Touch, but you can simultaneously access a secondary folder with FLAC files if you want to try some high-rez music.  The Touch is capable of streaming up to 24/96 files via wireless or Ethernet.  It may be a good time to download Squeezeserver and become acquainted with the interface.  This is the software you will use to control any Squeeze devices, and that will access your music library.  To use the iTunes Library, first go to your Settings window (button is at the lower left in the main window).  Choose the iTunes tab, and check the box at the top that says "Use iTunes".  This tells SB to look at your iTunes folder for your library info.  Then go back to the "Basic Settings" tab and look for the line that says "Music Folder" - this is where you will indicate the OTHER folder that contains music files that iTunes cannot manage (FLAC for instance).  Viola - you are on your way to a more comprehensive library.  Then go to HDTracks and download a free sampler of hi-rez music and play a few cuts and see if it's something you think is worth the $.  You may not. If not, you won't have to deal with a second folder of music. 
   
  Have fun with your SB Touch.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Good info - thanks, Shinsengumi!
> 
> General question - does using a balanced input on a WA22/LCD-2 combo makes a big difference in the ability of the amp to drive the LCD-2s?  I run my DAC balanced into my 22 already - but I'm curious if the difference between balanced/single ended "makes or breaks" the viability of the combo.


 

 It should be better than SE in, balanced in have double the output voltage.  Using TS 5998 will get you more gain too.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I've been using Squeezeboxes for the past 5 years.  One of the best purchases I've ever made.  I rip or purchase my songs in FLAC and then use dBPowerAmp to create an ALAC copy of each album/song for playback on my apple devices (iMod, iPhone, iPods).  Works great and the sound quality is great with or without an external DAC.


----------



## jerico

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I've got a pair of 7236s, but I swapped them out for the time being, as there was too much gain with the T1s in many cases (ie I had a tough time dialing the "right" level given the volume notches).


----------



## Icenine2

J and jc.  Thank for buying the LCD2's.  Once I hear what you both have to say it will be much easier to make my decision.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> J and jc.  Thank for buying the LCD2's.  Once I hear what you both have to say it will be much easier to make my decision.


 

 I will report back sometime next week, I may go MIA for a long while...


----------



## Icenine2

Did you get their balanced cable or someone else's?


----------



## Icenine2

Wow.  I was checking the first post here.  Daniel started with the 6SE, then 22, now 5LE.  And that first post was Sept 09!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Did you get their balanced cable or someone else's?


 

 They run out of balanced cable, I will re-terminate my spare TWag to LCD-2.
   


  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Wow.  I was checking the first post here.  Daniel started with the 6SE, then 22, now 5LE.  And that first post was Sept 09!


 
   
  Yup, I kinda force him upgrade to WA5LE.  He is almost finish modding the WA5LE too.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Wow.  I was checking the first post here.  Daniel started with the 6SE, then 22, now 5LE.  And that first post was Sept 09!


 

 He is my hero.
   
  I am working on using my WA22 to drive my Vandersteen speakers and maybe next year I will do like Daniel and graduate to the 5.


----------



## jerico

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> J and jc.  Thank for buying the LCD2's.  Once I hear what you both have to say it will be much easier to make my decision.


 


  I'm actually hoping to hear from JC too!  I'm sure mine are still a couple weeks away (I went with the ALO package, with a balanced option).
   
  I've read Seamaster's comments (somewhere around here) that his 22 managed to drive the LCD2s - maybe he'll chime in at some point for some followup.  I'm sure he has some primo tubes in there!


----------



## grokit

WA22 to drive speakers? Do tell.
   
  I can testify that the LCD-2 is a great match for the WA22, none of you will be disappointed. It sounds great single-ended, but really improves with a nice cable in balanced mode. I am using the affordable DHC Molecule, a very lightweight balanced OCC cable and it was a noticeable upgrade.
   
  Tube upgrades are quite noticeable too with the LCD-2. I am currently breaking in an EML 5U4G with some TS5998's; I took out my TSRP's (oval micas) and put in some Shuguang drivers during break in. I also have the round mica versions of the TSRP's on the way but it sounds great already.
   
  One thing that's great about the WA22 is there is plenty of breathing room for the "hourglass" type of  tubes:
   

   
  Yeah I know, get a real camera!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I had Jack add the pre-amp option to my WA22.  It sounds quite nice with my Klein + Hummell powered monitors but the selector switch is on the back of the WA22 which is a pain to use in my case since I have such tight quarters. So now I use the W4S DAC2 as the Pre for the speakers.  If you're able to easily switch between HP/Speakers on the WA22 than it's a pretty good option.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





jax said:


> You might also want to consider downloading the iPeng app for your iPod Touch - it is a more comprehensive sofware to manage your Squeezebox from your iPod.  I have not, however, found it to be very intuitive, but certainly more powerful than using Remote.  Not only can you use your iTunes library via a Squeezebox Touch, but you can simultaneously access a secondary folder with FLAC files if you want to try some high-rez music.  The Touch is capable of streaming up to 24/96 files via wireless or Ethernet.  It may be a good time to download Squeezeserver and become acquainted with the interface.  This is the software you will use to control any Squeeze devices, and that will access your music library.  To use the iTunes Library, first go to your Settings window (button is at the lower left in the main window).  Choose the iTunes tab, and check the box at the top that says "Use iTunes".  This tells SB to look at your iTunes folder for your library info.  Then go back to the "Basic Settings" tab and look for the line that says "Music Folder" - this is where you will indicate the OTHER folder that contains music files that iTunes cannot manage (FLAC for instance).  Viola - you are on your way to a more comprehensive library.  Then go to HDTracks and download a free sampler of hi-rez music and play a few cuts and see if it's something you think is worth the $.  You may not. If not, you won't have to deal with a second folder of music.
> 
> Have fun with your SB Touch.


 

 You Sir, are a gent...
   
  That is brilliant info and judging by what I'm reading I think I'm going to love it, I'm looking forward to getting it set up and will probably post an impression once I'm used to controling it etc...
   
  Thank you again.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I had Jack add the pre-amp option to my WA22.  It sounds quite nice with my Klein + Hummell powered monitors but the selector switch is on the back of the WA22 which is a pain to use in my case since I have such tight quarters. So now I use the W4S DAC2 as the Pre for the speakers.  If you're able to easily switch between HP/Speakers on the WA22 than it's a pretty good option.


 

 Well, I finally got my balanced cables (cheap microphone) and male/male adapter and am using my WA22 as a preamp.  I had a little bit of hum in the beginning which was mostly (95%) reduced after the WA22 was turned on and the volume up a bit.
   
  I have the volume at two clicks and it's where I would normally have it set when listening to my HD800's.  I've got the WA22 plugged into an Audio Research VT100 MKIII amplifier and have not had it on for a while, so it will take a bit for all the tubes to warm up and everything to stabalize. 
   
  First early impressions are that the WA22 is not only a spectacular headphone amp, but a really nice preamp.  The soundstage fills the room like never before.  It is past the edges of the speakers and is out into the middle of my office just in front of my desk.  I'm also getting dimensional imaging were there is a front and a back and stuff in between; not just left and right.
  
  Now I wish I would have had Jack add the pre-amp option.  If it sounds this good, I can only imagine with the WA5 guys must be experiencing.
   
  After I've been playing for a while and my VT100 gets warmed up I'll post again.


----------



## avsBuddy

I don't think WA5 has pre-amp out, it has speaker out with about 15Watts/channel which will only work in small rooms with efficient speakers.
  I was actually inquiring about going with WA22 and adding pre-amp functionality, but Jack steered me toward going with WA2 as a better option. Someone mentioned that they weren't impressed with WA22 with pre-amp option which made my decision to go with WA2. I actually have tried my WA2 in the main system as a preamp, it sounded very nice -strong midrange, surprisingly very detailed on top - no rolloff. I had hum, which I fixed by lifting ground. Compared to my Marantz pre/pro it's difficult to say which one I prefer as I didn't have time to do a detailed comparison back and forth. Marantz is a really nice sounding unit in itself.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> I don't think WA5 has pre-amp out, it has speaker out with about 15Watts/channel which will only work in small rooms with efficient speakers.
> I was actually inquiring about going with WA22 and adding pre-amp functionality, but Jack steered me toward going with WA2 as a better option. Someone mentioned that they weren't impressed with WA22 with pre-amp option which made my decision to go with WA2. I actually have tried my WA2 in the main system as a preamp, it sounded very nice -strong midrange, surprisingly very detailed on top - no rolloff. I had hum, which I fixed by lifting ground. Compared to my Marantz pre/pro it's difficult to say which one I prefer as I didn't have time to do a detailed comparison back and forth. Marantz is a really nice sounding unit in itself.


 

  
  Very good point about preamp out.  I should have been more precise, good catch.  Especially to people reading this stuff and trying to decide what they want to buy.
   
  For me, sometimes I don't want to listen to my headphones, but via speakers, so having the ability to redirect to speakers is all I really need.  I'll look at lifting the ground in my VT100 amplifier, that is a really good suggestion, thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I would consider getting a pair of Sylvania VT-231 or Bad Boys to bring out the highs with either the HD650 or LCD-2.


 

 If he means highs as in clarity and articulation/air then I second this.  On the other hand, if he means highs as in brightness or treble energy then I would have to offer a differing opinion.  The Treasures are definitely a brighter tube with stronger treble presence than the Bad Boy Sylvania, which I consider to be slightly dark sounding in the highs personally.


----------



## WindyCityCy

That may have been me that said it wasn't a very good pre-amp.  I should qualify that statement.  I think it sounds quite good in that duty however for me it was not convenient enough (for my intended use).  
   
  I was using it as a pre for my powered monitors and much of the usage was for playing back audio from my laptop - youtube, espn360, netflix, pandora, etc.  I was looking for something that could be turned on/off very quickly and the WA22 didn't fit that requirement due to the speaker/HP toggle being in the back where I couldn't reach it quickly and because of what Mike mentioned about the tubes needing to warm up to stabilize.  If I was to leave the WA22 on full-time than this wouldn't have been an issue.  Or if I just was better at planning ahead and turning the WA22 on 10-15 minutes ahead of time.
   
  The second issue (not really major in my case but I could see it being an issue for others) is that there isn't a source selector on the front.  
   
  I love the WA22 as a HP amp and am not sure I will ever replace it as it is so enjoyable to listen to and I find myself mesmerized by the glowing tubes and silouette.  However, I am also very happy that I went with the W4S DAC as it gives me everything I was looking for in the pre-amp space and makes the WA22 sound even better when using headphones.  I have a feeling if you want pre-amp capabilities from a Woo that the WA2 is the best option.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You'll have to let me know which rectifier (274b or 5U4G) you prefer once you get your LCD-2.  I think amongst the people active in the Woo owners thread you  might be the only person who has both.


----------



## Carmantom

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Carmantom

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I've been using Squeezeboxes for the past 5 years.  One of the best purchases I've ever made.  I rip or purchase my songs in FLAC and then use dBPowerAmp to create an ALAC copy of each album/song for playback on my apple devices (iMod, iPhone, iPods).  Works great and the sound quality is great with or without an external DAC.


 


  Me too.  It's a great product.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  My pleasure, sir!  Enjoy your Touch (ooh, that doesn't sound good, does it)!
   
  If you really want to get geeky, and go for the super-tweakage, someone just posted this link on Audiogon, which I have not looked into in depth, but would support some of the basic posits on making the Touch sound better this person offers, such as using Ethernet (hard wired) vs wireless.  This is getting in deep with the Touch, so you may want to just get it and enjoy it for now, but others might have a take on this, though this isn't really a SB Touch thread.  Here's the tweakage link.


----------



## Carmantom

*Anyone Else Not Finding the  Princess Sophia their "Cup of Tea" ?*
   
  I recently bought a Princess Sophia as a result of all the glowing reviews.  I am using it with WA6-SE.  I am using it with a pair of 6DE7s - Sylvania and then I tried it w/ my RCAs w/shield. 
   
  The soundstage wide, but to me not very deep.  I found the bass able to go very low, but with little impact.  A little to bloaty for my taste.  The mids were a little to tubey for me.  The treble on the other hand was delightful.  Crisp, airy and well defined.
   
  I thinking I will go back to my best combo to date. NOS   CBS 5U4GB Rectifier along with a pair of 6DE7s GE Double Triode.  I find this combo to be very deep and punchy in the base.  Very wide soundstage, and holographic.  Mids are mildly romantic, no too tubey and the highs are not as crisp as the Sophia but plenty defined for me.
   
  I will try some more tube rolling w/ some more 6de7s and some 6ew7s as well as well as some large 6ew7s.  Maybe I will find  some reason to hold onto the Sophia.  Otherwise, out she goes.
   
  Maybe the EML 274B Mesh plate will be more p[leasing to me.  from what I read it serves up bass with more punch.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





carmantom said:


> *Anyone Else Not Finding the  Princess Sophia their "Cup of Tea" ?*
> 
> I recently bought a Princess Sophia as a result of all the glowing reviews.  I am using it with WA6-SE.  I am using it with a pair of 6DE7s - Sylvania and then I tried it w/ my RCAs w/shield.
> 
> ...


 

 I bought a used one with about 100 hours on it, so fully burned in.  I have a WA6SE also (mine is maxxed).  The Sophia tube lasted a week with me, as I recall, before I sold it again.  IMO it didn't do much of anything right in my specific application of it.  I think I was using ATH 5000 and Grado 1000 at the time.  OTOH, I'm pretty sure the guy who bought it from me was quite happy with it, but I don't recall his use of it.  I did not find it's bass performance good at all, and thought it rendered a general lack of detail through the mids and highs, and was just baffled why anyone would like it.  I much prefer the EML 5U4G, which seems to do everything just right in the same application - solid bass, clarity, separation, detail and extension.  It is an excellent performer for me.


----------



## grokit

Hmm, I didn't know about the preamp-out option when I sent my WA22 in. I had mine modified (like seamaster I think), eliminating the SE input in favor of a second balanced input. I wonder if I could have added a balanced or SE pre-out as well. My balanced DAC and phono stage also have SE outs, that's all I need for my speaker rig anyways so no biggie. It might have been cool to have a tube stage pre-out though, if that's what it actually is.


----------



## wind016

That may be why I hated the ATH W5000. I love the Sophia with my current ATH woodies though.
   
  This makes me worried that the EML may not match the current headphones I'm using.
  
  Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## avsBuddy

The pre-out option for WA22 is not official one, and Jack only would do it if you ask him really, really nicely. For whatever reason neither WA6 or WA22 are designed with pre-out in mind. In my case Jack hinted that WA2 will perform better as a pre-amp than WA22.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If it helps you decide I find the treble just right with most output tubes using my K701s with the EML 274b.  Great clarity, depth and texture but is not aggressive or in your face.  I could see a more laid back headphone sounding a bit too dark with the EML, but I have found in general that the resolution and depth it presents goes a long way even if the tonal balance isn't quite ideal all the time.
  
  Quote: 





wind016 said:


> That may be why I hated the ATH W5000. I love the Sophia with my current ATH woodies though.
> 
> This makes me worried that the EML may not match the current headphones I'm using.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Will do but it looks like I will not receive it today due to the snow storm unless FedEx is making a special trip to my house.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I agreed.  When I had W5000, I much prefer the EML 5U4G over Sophia.  Another rectifier is good match with W5000 is Mullard GZ34.  That is when I still have WA6 maxxed.  I did not get a chance to try W5000 with WA22.  That being said, W5000 sounds best out of HA5000.  There is no other amp can compare if you love W5000 and planning to keep it for a long time.


----------



## Skylab

I also was unimpressed with the Princess.  Too bright, and poor bass weight and depth.  ANY of my NOS 5U4G's were better, and the Tung-Sol 5U4G was MUCH better.  This was true both in my WA6, and in my Decware CSP-2.
   
  The Princess is a pretty sight, but she's a cold-hearted witch inside.


----------



## jerico

skylab said:


> I also was unimpressed with the Princess.  Too bright, and poor bass weight and depth.  ANY of my NOS 5U4G's were better, and the Tung-Sol 5U4G was MUCH better.  This was true both in my WA6, and in my Decware CSP-2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 


This was my experience too, especially the boring bass. I'm much happier with the EML 5U4G (have yet to try any good NOS though).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jerico said:


> This was my experience too, especially the boring bass. I'm much happier with the EML 5U4G (have yet to try any good NOS though).


 
   
  Notice you have a WA22, the last time I use Mullard GZ34.  The WA22 runs much warmer than using EML 274B or EML 5U4G, not sure it is a good thing or not and I have not email Jack about this yet.


----------



## jerico

jc9394 said:


> Notice you have a WA22, the last time I use Mullard GZ34.  The WA22 runs much warmer than using EML 274B or EML 5U4G, not sure it is a good thing or not and I have not email Jack about this yet.





 


I'm pretty content with my tubes - the EML, Treasures, and GE 6AS7GA (which work well for me, and don't cost a fortune). I also have some RCA 6AS7G and KenRad VT231 that i haven't tried yet.


----------



## Icenine2

All you would be LCD2 contenders:  ALO-32Ohm Audio had the LCD's in stock _if_ you bought them w/the ALO cable for $1500 a few weeks back.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> All you would be LCD2 contenders:  ALO-32Ohm Audio had the LCD's in stock _if_ you bought them w/the ALO cable for $1500 a few weeks back.


 


  I know but I don't want to pay $500 for the cable until I know I love the LCD-2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Notice you have a WA22, the last time I use Mullard GZ34.  The WA22 runs much warmer than using EML 274B or EML 5U4G, not sure it is a good thing or not and I have not email Jack about this yet.


 

 Jack emailed me back on this... I will give it another try tonight if I can make it thru the storm.
   
*"A bit warmer is fine. Report back if it runs hot. The GZ34 draws more current and thus the amp will work harder.

 Jack"*


----------



## Icenine2

Side topic: I am thinking about ripping everything to drive, backing it up and selling my collections.  DCC, MFSL, Japanese mini lp's.  I don't even take these out anymore.  I'm listening to everything off drive.  I could use the money to waste on stereo gear or maybe new Campagnolo bicycle gear.


----------



## Icenine2

Oops.  That is illegal copying those then selling. Nevermind


----------



## avsBuddy

That's ok, I don't mind. Just let me know if you have some SACDs


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I noticed this too, and it apparently is linked to how many amps the rectifier draws from the transformer.  In terms of hot to cool my experience was:  5AS4G > 5U4G > 5R4GYB > 5V4G > 274B.  The last two could probably be switched since they are the same, but with the EML the amp is cool to the touch and when I was using that 5AS4 (a tube I disliked so much I threw it out) it was actually hot to the touch, not warm like it tends to be with a 5U4G.  The 5AS4 is the only rectifier I've seen that has 8 contact pins on it too which is interesting.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Oops.  That is illegal copying those then selling. Nevermind


 

 I was sitting inside my garage on the wind trainer pondering what you just wrote. And thought, "Wouldn't Campy gear justify the aforementioned activity?" Definitely audio additions anyways...


----------



## khollister

Woohoo! Just heard from Jack - my WA2 is supposed to ship Monday


----------



## Carmantom

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As always one must trust their own ears, but it was nice to hear others who opinions I highly respect feel the same about the Princess.


----------



## igotnojob

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> I sell on ebay, and from my experience it takes about a week for items to make it from the east coast to the west via fed-ex ground
> 
> this item shipped FED-EX Ground from Long Island, NY (about 20 miles east of Woo's office)


 

 Apparently, it takes just as long for Fedex to ship a package 5 miles away as it does to ship it 3000. My WA2 was shipped on 1/11/11 via Fedex Home Delivery with an origin of Lawrence, NY which is in Nassau County. It was originally listed with an expected delivery date of 1/12/11 which is pretty reasonable, I suppose seeing as I, too, live in Nassau County just a few towns over. So, of course, Fedex ships my WA2 across the Hudson to New Jersey where it has been sitting in some cold warehouse since the evening of the 11th. No further tracking info, no updates. How much does Fedex suck? Much.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





igotnojob said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is Woo's Law, that is wait time is in inverse porportion to how much you want your amp!


----------



## Icenine2

I have something coming from Woo Audio that left on Jan 11th and will arrive today the 13th just outside of Chicago.  Two days is pretty good.


----------



## jc9394

I live in MA, both time I asked Jack to use UPS and I get it the next morning even using UPS ground.


----------



## igotnojob

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This is Woo's Law, that is wait time is in inverse porportion to how much you want your amp!


 

 It sure ain't easy!
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I live in MA, both time I asked Jack to use UPS and I get it the next morning even using UPS ground.


 

 This is smart. I should have done that. This is my first order though and I didn't know what delivery service would be used.
   
  Fedex Home Delivery isn't even Fedex. It's definitely not Fedex Ground. It's the red-headed stepchild of the Fedex family: the dirty little secret it doesn't like to tell anyone about. Has anyone ever had to go to a Fedex Home Delivery office? They have less teeth and more fingers than other folks. They don't wear (or own?) Fedex uniforms so they look like random hobos waiting inside from the cold. They never have answers for your questions. Their computers aren't even linked to "real" Fedex. And they all seem to be located next to abandoned train tracks. If you order from Woo Audio and want to get your stuff on time and in one piece, I'd suggest doing what jc9394 does and request UPS Ground service.
   
  In Summary:
  Fedex=UPS > Fedex Ground=UPS Ground > Blind deaf monkey > The neighbor kid who just ain't right > Fedex Home Delivery. </End Rant>


----------



## khollister

In defense of Jack, Fedex Ground/Home is quite a bit less expensive on large or heavy items than UPS. I have had good service from Home Delivery in my area. Given the number of items I have received over the years (huge) this is almost useless anecdotal data, but the only service I have had issues with a couple times is UPS.
   
  I am also not sure of the policies about Fedex Ground vs Home. If I ship something to a residence and select Ground, it will force it to Home if the address resolves to a residence upon validation. However, I have received items at home via Fedex Ground as opposed to Home Delivery that were sent by a business (my Apple Mac Pro computer came Fedex Ground, not Home Delivery), so I'm not sure how this works.


----------



## dminches

Plus, Fedex Home delivers on Saturday which is a biggy for packages requiring signatures.  There are nightmare stories associated with all the shipping companies.


----------



## Seld

Thank you very much, H-Addict.
  I think I have to better replace either the cable... Cardas?
  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I would consider getting a pair of Sylvania VT-231 or Bad Boys to bring out the highs with either the HD650 or LCD-2.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





igotnojob said:


> This is smart. I should have done that. This is my first order though and I didn't know what delivery service would be used.
> 
> Fedex Home Delivery isn't even Fedex. It's definitely not Fedex Ground. It's the red-headed stepchild of the Fedex family: the dirty little secret it doesn't like to tell anyone about. Has anyone ever had to go to a Fedex Home Delivery office? They have less teeth and more fingers than other folks. They don't wear (or own?) Fedex uniforms so they look like random hobos waiting inside from the cold. They never have answers for your questions. Their computers aren't even linked to "real" Fedex. And they all seem to be located next to abandoned train tracks. If you order from Woo Audio and want to get your stuff on time and in one piece, I'd suggest doing what jc9394 does and request UPS Ground service.
> 
> ...


 

 Probably (well definately) not PC but you are a funny guy! Biggest laugh of my day, thanks....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Plus, Fedex Home delivers on Saturday which is a biggy for packages requiring signatures.  There are nightmare stories associated with all the shipping companies.


 

 Saturday delivery for FedEx Home is indeed a good option for signatures required. Other things to consider: No deliveries on Mondays if you're out of position on Saturday; they are contractors and cannot "Status" your packages while driver is out for delivery. FedEx Ground/Air can via dispatcher. Now, if I could just get that vinyl rip of Yamaha R&D's "Session III" at 192kHz/24-bit from one of you audiophiles, don't return it with FedEx Home delivery!


----------



## Icenine2

Check out these tubes!!!!!
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mighty-kronzilla
   
  All this is in the Stereophile CES coverage.  Some incredible equipment.


----------



## wdahm519

Holy crap.  Those are incredible.


----------



## Icenine2

Everyone should check out the Stereophile CES coverage on their website.  It's the first page you open.  There are so many beautiful tube amps.  Huge amps.


----------



## jerico

My LCD2's shipped today! Yay.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





seld said:


> Thank you very much, H-Addict.
> I think I have to better replace either the cable... Cardas?
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 

 Cables will help, but always focus on source and amp first, and tubes will make a bigger difference than cables.  I did a review a while back of the APS V3 HD600 cable vs stock HD650 and HD600 cables (using an HD600), and the jump in sound quality going from HD600 cable to HD650 cable was bigger than the jump from HD650 cable to APS v3.  There was no doubt the APS V3 was the most transparent and detailed, but I would focus on the right tubes and source first.  Cables are usually my last tweak.


----------



## wind016

Does anyone know where I can order an EML 5U4G without a wait?


----------



## jax

Quote: 





igotnojob said:


> In Summary:
> Fedex=UPS > Fedex Ground=UPS Ground > Blind deaf monkey > The neighbor kid who just ain't right > Fedex Home Delivery.


 

 Rare footage of FedexHome delivery crew in action:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Does anyone know where I can order an EML 5U4G without a wait?


 

 www.tubesUSA.com
   
  Paypal address for George Lenz:  glenz10183@aol.com


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Or you could try this point-and-click solution for $23 less in shipping/payment processing fees, but I would check to make sure it's actually in stock first.


----------



## jerico

George at TubesUSA is a pleasure to deal with - and very responsive via email. I had mine enquired about, ordered, paid for, and shipped in about an hour. And it arrived the next day (though I am located nearby).


----------



## Carmantom

Awesome


----------



## nututubes

I have not been able to find any 6SN7GT *Sylvania Bad Boys*, at least none that meet the strict definition anyway. So I am trying some Sylvania 7N7 (1951) production.
  I have auditioned this WA22 / EML 5U4G / Sylvania 7236 / Sylvania 7N7 (with Glenn's adapter) combo for only about one hour, but I have to say that the 7N7 are terrific with my HD800 hp, right out of the box.


----------



## Edi

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just talked to George a couple of days ago, he's going on vacation right now and won't be back till the end of the month. I'm on his email list to purchase one when he gets back.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





jax said:


> You might also want to consider downloading the iPeng app for your iPod Touch - it is a more comprehensive sofware to manage your Squeezebox from your iPod.  I have not, however, found it to be very intuitive, but certainly more powerful than using Remote.  Not only can you use your iTunes library via a Squeezebox Touch, but you can simultaneously access a secondary folder with FLAC files if you want to try some high-rez music.  The Touch is capable of streaming up to 24/96 files via wireless or Ethernet.  It may be a good time to download Squeezeserver and become acquainted with the interface.  This is the software you will use to control any Squeeze devices, and that will access your music library.  To use the iTunes Library, first go to your Settings window (button is at the lower left in the main window).  Choose the iTunes tab, and check the box at the top that says "Use iTunes".  This tells SB to look at your iTunes folder for your library info.  Then go back to the "Basic Settings" tab and look for the line that says "Music Folder" - this is where you will indicate the OTHER folder that contains music files that iTunes cannot manage (FLAC for instance).  Viola - you are on your way to a more comprehensive library.  Then go to HDTracks and download a free sampler of hi-rez music and play a few cuts and see if it's something you think is worth the $.  You may not. If not, you won't have to deal with a second folder of music.
> 
> Have fun with your SB Touch.


 
   
  Well the Squeezebox came and I have spent the past 2 days being a bit anal about music libraries etc and have had a good clean up of my pc so the Squeezebox has all the right info in all the right places. Not quite as straight forward to set up as I had hoped but I'm there now.
   
  Jax - ''ipeng'' is going to be invaluable to me especially with the TrackStat plugin enabled. Many thanks for the nod on that as I really love the interface.
   
  I'm also suitably impressed with the audio quality, it's nice when something exceeds your expectations.... My Woo6 has never sounded so good


----------



## Icenine2

Side topic.  I can't figure out how to add what gear you use to the bottom of your posts.  Help!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Well the Squeezebox came and I have spent the past 2 days being a bit anal about music libraries etc and have had a good clean up of my pc so the Squeezebox has all the right info in all the right places. Not quite as straight forward to set up as I had hoped but I'm there now.
> 
> Jax - ''ipeng'' is going to be invaluable to me especially with the TrackStat plugin enabled. Many thanks for the nod on that as I really love the interface.
> 
> I'm also suitably impressed with the audio quality, it's nice when something exceeds your expectations.... My Woo6 has never sounded so good


 

 Are you using the Touch's DAC or an external DAC?


----------



## SpudHarris

Optical into a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic..... The more I listen the more impressed I am. I'm giving the BGRP's an airing tonigh


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Optical into a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic..... The more I listen the more impressed I am. I'm giving the BGRP's an airing tonigh


 


  In my experience to two different DACs the coaxial digital output does sound better.  You might want to try that option and see if it's the same for you.  Glad to hear iPeng is working out for you.  I'll have to check out that plugin.  I like having the interface on my phone, but am not really fond of their user-interface, though it's the best I know of otherwise.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jax said:


> In my experience to two different DACs the coaxial digital output does sound better.  You might want to try that option and see if it's the same for you.  Glad to hear iPeng is working out for you.  I'll have to check out that plugin.  I like having the interface on my phone, but am not really fond of their user-interface, though it's the best I know of otherwise.


 


  X2, it happens to my current DAC and few previous DACs including Dacmagic.


----------



## jax

BTW - a heads up to anyone interested: I may be stepping out of the Woo owners club soon and putting my WA6SEm on the market so keep an eye peeled on the FS listings if that interests you.  I moved to a smaller office space and the footprint and vertical space are just sadly needed for other things (my powered monitors aren't helping that).  I may have to go to the dark side and pair down to SS for a more compact form factor and no vulnerable tubes.  Since headphones are not really a priority for me (I know, heresy) this is no big deal, but I will certainly miss that intimate SET presentation.  I will post here when I put up an ad. Feel free to PM me if you have interest.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not at all familiar with Coaxial is there different qualities? I'm a believer in quality cables making a difference....


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Coaxial is simply the RCA digital output on the SB Touch (directly next to where you've plugged in your toslink cable).  It would require using an RCA to RCA (assuming your DAC has RCA digital input which is very likely) digital cable (not the same as a standard interconnect).  I won't start a discussion on cables here, but IMHO you don't need to go nuts on buying coaxial digital cable.  The difference between using the Toslink you are using and a good basic coaxial cable will be greater than spending $80 on a coaxial cable vs spending $300 on a coaxial cable....at least in my experience.  A lot of folks would argue the insanity of the latter as well, but again, that's for another thread.  I've had good luck with Stereovox and Kimber digital cables, which I buy on the used market.  I'm using inexpensive Canare on one of my two Touch players and it definitively sounds better than a glass toslink.  That is of course not the only factor involved, but I think it's worth trying on your system to see what works best since the potential difference may be great.


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks again Jax, man I'm a drain on your experience..... Not until you move into new areas that you realise that you are still a noobie haha.
   
  Ok, for now I've got a Belkin Pure AV on order and I'm quite exited if it could be better than Toslink coz this already sounds mighty fine too me.
   
  I love my WA6 sooooo much!


----------



## jc9394

Spud, check out www.bluejeanscable.com. I have very good experience with their cables. All my speaker cables and HT are from bluejeanscable.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Thanks again Jax, man I'm a drain on your experience..... Not until you move into new areas that you realise that you are still a noobie haha.
> 
> Ok, for now I've got a Belkin Pure AV on order and I'm quite exited if it could be better than Toslink coz this already sounds mighty fine too me.
> 
> I love my WA6 sooooo much!


 

 No sweat - happy to help.  Let us know how the comparison goes. 
   
  Jack does know what he's doing, doesn't he?!  I've been living with the WA6SEm for over a year now and have tried many cans with it, and have to say it is certainly among the best amps I've heard, as are several of his other designs.  Just great stuff - I can't imagine going wrong with any of them short of a gross mismatch in specific components.


----------



## grokit

X2, I am quite satisfied with their digital coax cables and they are great to deal with.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Spud, check out www.bluejeanscable.com. I have very good experience with their cables. All my speaker cables and HT are from bluejeanscable.


----------



## jax

Who was looking for Bad Boys here?  These just came up on A'gon.  I have no connection whatsoever to the seller and could not recommend them specifically, but seem to recall someone recently mentioning they were having a hard time finding some.


----------



## WindyCityCy

x3 --- I've tried the Touch into both of my DACs (w4s DAC2 and PS Audio DL3).  Coaxial connection was the best for both.  Use iPeng occasionally.  Usually just use the included remote if I can see the Touch screen.

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WindyCityCy

I'm actually about to order my 3rd Touch.  If you go to the logitech website and register any product you have from them they will send you a 20% discount.  Actually they don't even ask for a serial number or receipt.  Just want to get your name and email so they can send marketing material your way probably.  Took 1 minute to register.  Another good site for cables is 
   
  www.monoprice.com - I have some of their cables and can't tell the difference between them and the bluejeans cables I have.  Both are good but monoprice is quite a bit cheaper.


----------



## jax

Spud - you might also want to give ethernet (instead of wireless) a try if you have not already.  Obviously your computer/library needs to be within the length of the ethernet cable to your SB Touch to do this.  In my experience with both the Touch, the SB3 and the SB Transporter you should get slightly better performance.


----------



## sillysally

jax;
   
  So you like ADG, are you waiting to see if they ship your DAC/AMP before they go on holiday. It seems that with ADG its a crap shoot when they will end up shipping.
   
  For the folks that have to use optical and there gears are stationary, consider going with a good glass fiber optical.


----------



## musicman59

I used to have a lot of drop outs when I was going wireless using a Linksys router even with an external signal amplifier and high gain antennas. Then I switch the Linksys for an Airport Extreme and the drop out were greatly reduced but not totally eliminated. Then I added two Airport Express (one per system) as extenders and connect the Ethernet output of the Express to the input in the Squeezebox and all drop out are gone.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> jax;
> 
> So you like ADG, are you waiting to see if they ship your DAC/AMP before they go on holiday. It seems that with ADG its a crap shoot when they will end up shipping.
> 
> For the folks that have to use optical and there gears are stationary, consider going with a good glass fiber optical.


 

 Hi SillySally - Sorry, I'm not following regarding the AudioGD gear. I have a Ref. 8 DAC already - I don't have anything on order with them right now.  It's only got about 75 hours on it thus far, but yes, I do like it very much.  I guess they are out of them for now unless and until they get more PCM1704 chips.  I don't have one of their amps.  I think the current backup is due to their pending 10-day vacation coming up, as well as an abundance of orders.  I think it's really challenging for a small business to keep up with rapid growth, and I'm betting that's what Kingwa is trying to juggle.  As far as I'm concerned, they delivered when they said they would (actually earlier as I recall), but I think that was because it was something they already had in stock when I ordered it.  I think the trouble has come in orders where they actually have to build the products to fill the order (most of them these days I guess) - that's where it seems the only complaints I've read are generated from.  My experience with them was excellent, so I can't complain.  I don't own one of the their amps though.  I'm still trying to decide on a low-profile amp for my LCD-2's in my office as the Woo will leave some big shoes to fill, as it were.  My current short list does include the ROC SA,  Meier Concerto, or Violectric V181.  I just committed to selling my WA6SEm to a local buyer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so for now am stepping away from the Woo owners club, but hope to remain an honorary member - and could be back someday when I get more space to play with again - my office has become kind of like managing one's belongings while living in a sailboat. 
   
  As far my remarks about toslink - I am basing my own observations on a Wireworld SuperNova 5+ which is indeed a glass toslink cable.  It is clearly bested in my application, and in previous ones I've tried it on, by a coaxial alternative...my ears, my music, my system and my opinion. YMMV, as always.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I'm planning on getting a 2nd amp (not parting with the WA22) and am considering Burson and Violectric.  Let us know what you decide.  All of my Headphones are balanced so leaning towards Violectric 181 or waiting for the balanced version of their 200 which hopefully will come out this year.
  
  Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Spud, check out www.bluejeanscable.com. I have very good experience with their cables. All my speaker cables and HT are from bluejeanscable.


 

 X2, I use their products as well. Excellent quality and sound.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jax said:


> Who was looking for Bad Boys here?  These just came up on A'gon.  I have no connection whatsoever to the seller and could not recommend them specifically, but seem to recall someone recently mentioning they were having a hard time finding some.


 

 There are a few of us looking for them, myself included. Thanks for the tip. I've looked at those particular tubes before and FWIW, they do not meet the strict definition of Bad Boy AFAIK. They look like chrome dome to me. I'm basing this opinion on some info that Skylab and others more knowledgeable than me have posted here in the past.
  I also might be completely wrong about this


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 Well they are sold already, did someone here buy them?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
Why I asked if you waiting for a AGD is because of the promo  NFB 10 that now has been discontinued, that would seem to be a good match for your needs unless you use your 8DAC at work but that also has a large foot print.
I wasn't knocking kingwa but there are some longer delivery times, at least for now.
   
I wasn't trying to get into a cord/cable debate, all i was suggesting was if you had to use optical, not that optical is better. 
   
Anyway I do agree the PCM 1704UK with the DSP1v5 is a very nice DAC combo, I have the DAC19 DSP1v5 @ 1704UK. Didn't need to go to your extreme 8DAC.but I did talk to kingwa about what DAC would work best with my WA5LE, and yes I took his advice.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I got the Wireworld SuperNova 5+ also and want to echo the comments by Jax about it.  Really a good cable.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I went to the page to take a  look, and they were sold on day 0!


----------



## Icenine2

Jax,
   
  For SS why not consider a Matrix Mini I?  $300.  Over at Headphonista they went nuts for it.
   
  More upscale:  The new Grace 903 looks killer.  Separate power supplies for DAC and amp.  USB 24/192 (maybe 96) Wavelenght asynch USB.  All in one package.  $2K though but possibly a giant killer.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 I emailed the guy to see if he was willing to mail them (as opposed to UPS) and he said he has more pairs. Has anyone with the appropriate knowledge/experience taken a look at them that knows if they are the genuine article or not? When I got my oval mica TSRPs I was under the impression that they were the real thing but they can't be actual TSRPs if they are oval right? Anyways it would be nice to resolve this chrome dome thing, to know if they are really Bad Boys or not before proceeding as I have spent quit a bit on tubes lately and really don't need these anyways but I am curious.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Jax,
> 
> For SS why not consider a Matrix Mini I?  $300.  Over at Headphonista they went nuts for it.
> 
> More upscale:  The new Grace 903 looks killer.  Separate power supplies for DAC and amp.  USB 24/192 (maybe 96) Wavelenght asynch USB.  All in one package.  $2K though but possibly a giant killer.


 

 That AVA Vision DAC that Skylab just ordered looks very intriguing as well. As far as I can tell there is no other info available besides his mention of it here at Head-fi, it will be great to hear his impressions when he gets it.


----------



## Skylab

I've been a big fan of AVA gear for a long time. No money wasted on fancy chassis, or silly frills, just really solid audio engineering at a fair price.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've been a big fan of AVA gear for a long time. No money wasted on fancy chassis, or silly frills, just really solid audio engineering at a fair price.


 

 Do you have an ETA? I am excited for you!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! Since I ordered the tube-hybrid version, he said it would be about 30 days...so hopefully about 25 days from now


----------



## jax

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Jax,
> 
> For SS why not consider a Matrix Mini I?  $300.  Over at Headphonista they went nuts for it.
> 
> More upscale:  The new Grace 903 looks killer.  Separate power supplies for DAC and amp.  USB 24/192 (maybe 96) Wavelenght asynch USB.  All in one package.  $2K though but possibly a giant killer.


 

 Thanks, all for the suggestions, but I have no idea where anyone got the idea that I might be looking for a DAC?!  I'm very happy with the AGD Ref. 8 DAC that I have.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I emailed the guy to see if he was willing to mail them (as opposed to UPS) and he said he has more pairs. Has anyone with the appropriate knowledge/experience taken a look at them that knows if they are the genuine article or not? When I got my oval mica TSRPs I was under the impression that they were the real thing but they can't be actual TSRPs if they are oval right? Anyways it would be nice to resolve this chrome dome thing, to know if they are really Bad Boys or not before proceeding as I have spent quit a bit on tubes lately and really don't need these anyways but I am curious.


 

 The plates are round but the mica can be oval or round so they could certainly be the real thing.


----------



## Icenine2

Jax,
   
  How about the Shitt LYR?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 Well they sound great, they're not TSOPs at least so that's good


----------



## SteveFord

Are there any WooAudio owners near York, PA? 
  I'm listening to a Sherwood tube FM tuner through an Hhb 830 BurnIt Plus on a set of Beyerdyamics DT880s and the sound is really good.
  I've never had a dedicated headphone amp but have wanted to get one for quite some time.
  I would really like to compare the Hhb headphone output to a WooAudio amp to see if the difference is worth going for.
  Also, for these DT880s and AKG 701s, I guess that the WooAudio 3 wouldn't be suitable and that I would need the 6?
  Thank you in advance,
  Steve Ford


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Grokit,
   
  You have raised a really interesting question.  I looked it up on Wikipedia, and from what I read, the plate is different than the mica.  It says that the plate is a piece of metal inside of the tube and has a positive charge which draws electrons from the filament or cathode which has a negative charge.  It says the plate is not heated.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
   
  The article does not talk about the mica, but at http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kcQc1DhCa1cJ:www.indiamart.com/company/1486270/products.html+vacuum+tubes+mica&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us they explain what a mica is about halfway down the page and they are used to hold tube elements in position.
   
  So, whether a Tung-sol NOS 6NS7GT has round or oval micas is, I think, different from the plates.
   
  I have pairs of both round and oval mica's, and the round mica's, in my experience, have breakin times of at least 60 hours before the tube settles down, the oval mica's on the other hand, seemed to me to be very smooth initially with subtle changes occurring over breakin.  Also, I found that the round mica TSRP's are much richer, more dynamic and holographic than the oval mica's.
  
  So, from my limited perspective (please someone jump in here if I am wrong), your oval mica TSRP's are the real deal.


----------



## grokit

Thanks Mike, I appreciate it! I guess that means those round micas I got from you are close to broken in then. They already sound very nice, especially in the lows and mids. I will report back if I hear any difference (or not) when I switch back to the ovals after that in a week or two. 
   
  Of course the EML is still breaking in the whole tiime...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks Mike, I appreciate it! I guess that means those round micas I got from you are close to broken in then. They already sound very nice, especially in the lows and mids. I will report back if I hear any difference (or not) when I switch back to the ovals after that in a week or two.
> 
> Of course the EML is still breaking in the whole tiime...


 

  
  Yes, those guys are at the end of break in.  Glad they sound so nice.  Definately please post impressions.


----------



## SpudHarris

I have been missing such a lot for so long I can't tell you how made up I am. My listening pleasure thanks to the Coaxial over the Toslink has stepped up a considerable notch.
   
  I have a Coaxial on order but as it was the Wifes birthday yesterday we went out (Ice Skating & Shopping) and I couldn't resit picking up a Coaxial cable from a Maplin store to try. Oh, man it's a huge difference, even having just a fews minutes in the afternoon to listen I could tell it was much, much better. I couldn't listen last night coz it was late when we got back so I have a couple of hours set aside this evening and can't wait to try my favourites, it's gonna be like discovering them all over again. Thanks guys (especially Jax)


----------



## jax

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have been missing such a lot for so long I can't tell you how made up I am. My listening pleasure thanks to the Coaxial over the Toslink has stepped up a considerable notch.
> 
> I have a Coaxial on order but as it was the Wifes birthday yesterday we went out (Ice Skating & Shopping) and I couldn't resit picking up a Coaxial cable from a Maplin store to try. Oh, man it's a huge difference, even having just a fews minutes in the afternoon to listen I could tell it was much, much better. I couldn't listen last night coz it was late when we got back so I have a couple of hours set aside this evening and can't wait to try my favourites, it's gonna be like discovering them all over again. Thanks guys (especially Jax)


 

 Great to hear that it made a significant difference, Spud. That's certainly been my experience with the Touch and with several other components I've tried that in as well.  I don't know if it is necessarily a rule, but I have yet to find the exception among components I've owned.  Coaxial has consistently sounded better than optical (toslink). Given that both are supposedly just delivering zeros and ones, it is difficult to conceive why one would be superior to the other.  I am no engineer, but my ears tell me that is the case without any doubt at all.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The only answer I could postulate would be a difference in jitter.  Digital audio transmission is not my strongest subject, but I think the question to ask is if both optical and coax are driven by the same master clock and whether or not electrical grounding/interference is a factor on the coax side (since it cannot conceivably affect the optical).
   
  My DAC has one of each and I've traditionally used the optical for the computer and the coax for the dedicated CD player.  I previously found the coax to be slightly better, primarily due to less grain or harshness in the highs and when I replaced that older Denon cd changer with a Little Dot CD transport I felt this became even more true.  That would seem to reinforce the jitter theory, but I always figured if there is any truth about the things said on the subject of interference in digital signals a PC case would definitely be the environment to cause it so I just felt that getting the source signal outside of the PC was what was making the difference, not the the fact that the digital connection type was different.  Both my PC and my CD transport have both optical and coax so I could actually test this now that I think about it, but the instrument that is the human ear seems to vary far more than our gear does from day to day so I don't trust myself to come to trustworthy conclusions.
   
  The Woo smoothed out the treble and upper mids in my system so much that I no longer think about the subject anymore.  It used to be a major issue since grainy highs were ruining my ability to listen to headphones so anything that offered a bit of relief was welcome.  I still haven't used my SS amp at all since I got the Woo, because I'm instantly reminded of how frustrated I was with the setup every time I try.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Just got my shipping notice today. Only 6.5 days business days after putting in my order for my new WA2.
   
  Should be here by Thursday. So far I am very impressed with the service from Woo Audio.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Just got my shipping notice today. Only 6.5 days business days after putting in my order for my new WA2.
> 
> Should be here by Thursday. So far I am very impressed with the service from Woo Audio.


 


   Woo has great service. Since last Canjam when I met Jack I have crossed many email with him. First about the configuration for my WA5-LE and then about NOS tubes for each type (power, driver and rectifier) and he always respond fast and very attentinve.
  It is a company with great quality from their products to their customer support.


----------



## Golfnutz

Hi All.  When my WA22 shows up (suppose to be shipping this week), I'll spend time letting it burn-in on my Anthem D1.  In February, I plan on purchasing the Oppo 95 Blu-ray player and connecting it directly into the WA22 via XLR. I'm assuming this will work because the WA22 has a volume control (pre-amp). I should also be able to steam musice from my NAS using the Oppo 95. I'm not concerned about steaming music from the internet, as I'll use my laptop and other headphones.  My question is, will a DAC (i.e. W4S DAC-2) add any value if I put it between the WA22 and Oppo 95? Does this should right, or am I on the wrong track. Thanks.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Hi All.  When my WA22 shows up (suppose to be shipping this week), I'll spend time letting it burn-in on my Anthem D1.  In February, I plan on purchasing the Oppo 95 Blu-ray player and connecting it directly into the WA22 via XLR. I'm assuming this will work because the WA22 has a volume control (pre-amp). I should also be able to steam musice from my NAS using the Oppo 95. I'm not concerned about steaming music from the internet, as I'll use my laptop and other headphones.  My question is, will a DAC (i.e. W4S DAC-2) add any value if I put it between the WA22 and Oppo 95? Does this should right, or am I on the wrong track. Thanks.


 

 Probably not. Both are using the same DAC solution, and understanding that the Saber 9018 is a very tricky DAC to implement, my guess is because Oppo has had more experience with the Saber DAC you may be just going sideways in AQ.


----------



## dminches

I think the comparison goes way beyond the DAC chip itself.  It is equally about how the chip is integrated into the circuitry.  The fact that the DAC is part of the internal configuration of the Oppo would give it an advantage over an external DAC which requires an extra set of interconnects. Your ears need to be the judge but I agree with SS that you are not likely to gain much.


----------



## Driftwood

The whole point of the Oppo BDP-95 is its analog performance. Especially if you plan on using it to play SACDs, Then using an external DAC is probably going to be a step down in performance, even if the DAC is using the same DAC chip, due to the fact that basically no DACs intended for the audiophile market support HDCP.


----------



## Icenine2

What is the price going to be for the Oppo 95?


----------



## Skylab

RIGHT.  The analog output stage makes a huge difference, not just the DAC chip.


----------



## Golfnutz

Thanks for the replies Guy's.  Rumour has it starting at around $975.00.  I also agree, your (own) ears should always be the judge.  I just don't want to spend $1500-2000 on a DAC (+ cables) if it isn't going to improve anything.


----------



## mikemalter

Augh - EML casualty!  I switched out my TSRP's with a pair of Princesses this morning and when I turned on my WA22 my EML tube died.
   
  No spectacular pop or blown fuse.  The filiment just went by-by and that was it.  Had to put in the stock rectifier.
   
  I emailed Jack.  Does anyone know if there is any kind of a warranty on the EML's?


----------



## dminches

How old was your EML (hours used)?  You should be asking Jack if the voltage going to the EML is not too great.  Dan Wright adjusted this on my Modwright Transporter since others were seeing their EMLs die an early death.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How old was your EML (hours used)?  You should be asking Jack if the voltage going to the EML is not too great.  Dan Wright adjusted this on my Modwright Transporter since others were seeing their EMLs die an early death.


 

 The EML is around three months old, so it's not very old.  I am sure Jack is busy, so hopefully he'll get to me soon.
   
  Thing is, I have not seen any posts here about EML's dieing in WA22's.  What have you heard?  Does the Transporter use the EML 5U4G?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The EML is around three months old, so it's not very old.  I am sure Jack is busy, so hopefully he'll get to me soon.
> Thing is, I have not seen any posts here about EML's dieing in WA22's.  What have you heard?  Does the Transporter use the EML 5U4G?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  Yes, I am using the EML Mesh 5UAG in my transporter.  Dan installed resistors in the B+ leads to the anode of the rectifier which lowered the voltage to it.  I can't say how this compares to the WA22.  Since the EML is sold as an upgrade to the WA22 I would assume it shouldn't require a modification.  But you should ask Jack.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The EML does indeed have less tolerance for voltage swings north than the standard 5U4G tube.  I did check with Jack on compatibility and specifically mentioned Dan's adjustment he had to make.  Jack assured me that he built his amp (mine was a WA6SEm) to be EML friendly.  Mine was NOT a WA22 though, but if he's selling the EML as an upgrade for the 22 I'm sure that he's taken that into account since he's aware of the issue.


----------



## Icenine2

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Augh - EML casualty!  I switched out my TSRP's with a pair of Princesses this morning and when I turned on my WA22 my EML tube died.
> 
> No spectacular pop or blown fuse.  The filiment just went by-by and that was it.  Had to put in the stock rectifier.
> 
> I emailed Jack.  Does anyone know if there is any kind of a warranty on the EML's?


 


  At TubesUSA it is one year or 2000 hours.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike -
   
  I had 2 EMLs die.  I even sent my amp back to Jack because I thought something was wrong.  Both that died were of the old body-style.  The first lasted about as long as yours 2-3 months.  The second lasted about a month.  I got one of the new body-style EMLs and it has been going strong for 2-3 months.  There must be some reason they changed the EML 5U4G and I'm guessing it was due to premature failures.  I am very happy with the EML I have now.  What body-style do you have?
   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## khollister

OK - inbound Woo alert! Got the shipping notice today that my WA2 is on its way. In a fit of complete financial irresponsibility (that my wife doesn't know about yet) i ended up ordering a new DAC (Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2) as well as ordering a PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regenerator! This all better sound fantastic or I'm really going to be depressed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The DAC decision was really hard - thanks (I think) to WindyCityCy for kicking me over the edge with his endorsement of the W4S.


----------



## TheWuss

khollister - good luck sneaking the dac into your setup without the wife noticing.
  it's a pretty attractive unit.  downside of that is, pretty attention-grabbing as well...


----------



## Icenine2

Quote: 





khollister said:


> OK - inbound Woo alert! Got the shipping notice today that my WA2 is on its way. In a fit of complete financial irresponsibility (that my wife doesn't know about yet) i ended up ordering a new DAC (Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2) as well as ordering a PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regenerator! This all better sound fantastic or I'm really going to be depressed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 jc has a DAC2 as well and I'm ordering mine before the end of the month.  Let us know how it all sounds!!


----------



## Icenine2

Would someone please tell me how to attach equipment details (what you own) to the bottom of the window you post in.  Thanks!


----------



## TheWuss

pm sent, Icenine2...


----------



## WindyCityCy

You will be in audio heaven.  Congrats on your fine gear.  Hope your wife is understanding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





khollister said:


> OK - inbound Woo alert! Got the shipping notice today that my WA2 is on its way. In a fit of complete financial irresponsibility (that my wife doesn't know about yet) i ended up ordering a new DAC (Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2) as well as ordering a PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regenerator! This all better sound fantastic or I'm really going to be depressed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I can see you 'neak into the home with the _kit_ or discretely descend the hall with the _kaboodle_. All without your wife's knowledge, mind you. _But the kit & the kaboodle?! _Wouldn't that be akin to _betting the house_, on what's in the house? Woo Audio purchases have been known to embolden...
   
  With your current setup, how do you like the Mac mini/Apogee Duet combo? I was thinking about that combo fronting my WA6SE later this Spring.


----------



## TheWuss

Quote:


silent one said:


> Woo Audio purchases have been known to embolden...


 
   
  i laughed out loud.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  woo purchases are a gateway drug, indeed.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Mike -
> 
> I had 2 EMLs die.  I even sent my amp back to Jack because I thought something was wrong.  Both that died were of the old body-style.  The first lasted about as long as yours 2-3 months.  The second lasted about a month.  I got one of the new body-style EMLs and it has been going strong for 2-3 months.  There must be some reason they changed the EML 5U4G and I'm guessing it was due to premature failures.  I am very happy with the EML I have now.  What body-style do you have?
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know what style I have.  How do I tell?  Did you get your EML from Jack?  He has not answered my email yet, but I am sure he must have a stack of other emails to answer first.


----------



## Silent One

> > > I don't know what style I have.  How do I tell?  Did you get your EML from Jack?  He has not answered my email yet, but I am sure he must have a stack of other emails to answer first.


 
  The old style was much larger; new style smaller, more svelte. Earlier posts w/pix here could let you compare. 
   
  Also, very sorry to hear about your experience. I know you'll get it sorted out and it will merely be an inconvenience.


----------



## khollister

Bear in mind I have no real basis of comparison other than the HRT Music Streamer II+ I briefly tried, and I am using an RSA HR-2 amp until the Woo gets here. That said, I think the Duet is a very musical DAC. Probably not the most revealing, transparent, extended or having the most precise or expansive soundstage, but it sounds like music. Short of DIY, it is probably the most musical solution under $500 even if it isn't the most impressive from a HiFi attributes standpoint. 
   
  With my Mini (40 GB SSD for OS/apps, 8 GB RAM, all un necessary service disabled, external bus powered 2.5" HDD for music) and Amarra 2.1.1 and Pure Music 1.72a and the Duet, I think I am at least equivalent to my old Rega Planet 2000 I sold. I am sure with the DAC-2 I will blow right past that standard. It is quite analog sounding.
   
  Let me know when you get ready to do something, I might sell you one of my Duets (I have another one I use on my music rig - a Mac Pro).
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> With your current setup, how do you like the Mac mini/Apogee Duet combo? I was thinking about that combo fronting my WA6SE later this Spring.


----------



## stufaro

@khollister when did you order the WA2? I am trying to figure out when I might get a shipping notice as I ordered mine on Sunday 01/09/11 lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Bear in mind I have no real basis of comparison other than the HRT Music Streamer II+ I briefly tried, and I am using an RSA HR-2 amp until the Woo gets here. That said, I think the Duet is a very musical DAC. Probably not the most revealing, transparent, extended or having the most precise or expansive soundstage, but it sounds like music. Short of DIY, it is probably the most musical solution under $500 even if it isn't the most impressive from a HiFi attributes standpoint.
> 
> With my Mini (40 GB SSD for OS/apps, 8 GB RAM, all un necessary service disabled, external bus powered 2.5" HDD for music) and Amarra 2.1.1 and Pure Music 1.72a and the Duet, I think I am at least equivalent to my old Rega Planet 2000 I sold. I am sure with the DAC-2 I will blow right past that standard. It is quite analog sounding.
> 
> ...


 

 To date: 8 GB RAM for the mini coming Wednesday from OWC. Have Pure Music 1.72a; Firewire HDD and unnecessary services disabled. Also, looking at 40 GB SSD possibly next month. Did you add the RAM & SSD one at a time or at once? How would you determine each of their improvements individually from stock? Small, moderate or huge gain?
  Thanks.


----------



## khollister

Dec 28 - Jack's initial estimate was really close
  
  Quote: 





stufaro said:


> @khollister when did you order the WA2? I am trying to figure out when I might get a shipping notice as I ordered mine on Sunday 01/09/11 lol


----------



## khollister

I got the Mini - plugged it in to make sure everything was working and then immediately ripped it apart to install the SSD and RAM. So I'm not much help there? The SSD install was not for the weak hearted. The only things I didn't have out were the PS and DVD drive. I recommend puting the HDD on whatever bus you are not using for the DAC. Since the Duet is FW, I have the OWC Al-Pro mini on USB. I will move it to FW when I get the Wyred4Sound which is USB (or Toslink).
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> To date: 8 GB RAM for the mini coming Wednesday from OWC. Have Pure Music 1.72a; Firewire HDD and unnecessary services disabled. Also, looking at 40 GB SSD possibly next month. Did you add the RAM & SSD one at a time or at once? How would you determine each of their improvements individually from stock? Small, moderate or huge gain?
> Thanks.


----------



## khollister

yeah, if she's not there is always our Airstream trailer in the back yard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least the headphone rig will fit - it's all about priorities.
  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> You will be in audio heaven.  Congrats on your fine gear.  Hope your wife is understanding


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote:


silent one said:


> > > > I don't know what style I have.  How do I tell?  Did you get your EML from Jack?  He has not answered my email yet, but I am sure he must have a stack of other emails to answer first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I am wondering if there are actually three different versions: 
   
  The first one was the larger one; much more square with silver top. 
   
  Then the "redesign" was, as you mentioned, smaller and more rounded but with a clear top; these are the type that sillysally had but one of those failed in his WA5. 
   
  I was going to order a pair from George at TubesUSA.com and I specifically asked him if I would be receiving the newer version with clear top and he said EML is constantly "refining" (changing) the design for the better. 
   
  The reason I bring this up is that I remember mikemalter's pictures of when he received his EML and it looked like the top was again silver?
   
  In any event I am very curious myself about the longevity of the EML rectifiers, this is usually the type of tube that can often run for several thousand hours or more. I had a pair of 1958 McIntosh MC60s' that had their original Tung-Sol 5U4G's and they still tested within spec although all the other tubes needed to be replaced.
   
  I am not implying that Jack runs this tube hard but you do have to pay very close attention to the value of the first cap in the power supply or premature failure will occur as per EML's datasheet, though I'm sure he has long ago worked this out.
   
  The EML tubes carry a one year warranty and Jack is a very stand up guy to say the least so I'm sure he will make things right.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for your insights. I have a USB DAC, so I chose a Firewire HDD. Last week, I added a 5v linear power supply to my DAC (EMU-0404) and the difference was huge - my Woo certainly liked the extra attention. This now has me thinking is there any gains to be had if I replace the switching adapter on the HDD with a linear supply? Or moot in the same way the quality of the USB/Firewire cable wouldn't matter?
    
  
  Quote: 





khollister said:


> I got the Mini - plugged it in to make sure everything was working and then immediately ripped it apart to install the SSD and RAM. So I'm not much help there? The SSD install was not for the weak hearted. The only things I didn't have out were the PS and DVD drive. I recommend puting the HDD on whatever bus you are not using for the DAC. Since the Duet is FW, I have the OWC Al-Pro mini on USB. I will move it to FW when I get the Wyred4Sound which is USB (or Toslink).
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> @khollister when did you order the WA2? I am trying to figure out when I might get a shipping notice as I ordered mine on Sunday 01/09/11 lol


 

 I put my WA2 order in on January 6th, 2011 and got the shipping notice yesterday (January 17th)....so I guess you should be getting the shipping notice later this week/early next week.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I bought the EML from Jack.  He felt very bad that I was having issues.  He replaced each time under warranty so it just cost me to ship the defective tube back to him.  The last time I told him to wait until he got 1 of the new batch so I was without an EML for about 2 months while waiting.  I'm glad I waited as the new EML is working like a charm.  Also glad I bought through him.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WindyCityCy

You might need a bigger power regenerator if you move into the airstream!
  
  Quote: 





khollister said:


> yeah, if she's not there is always our Airstream trailer in the back yard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I bought the EML from Jack.  He felt very bad that I was having issues.  He replaced each time under warranty so it just cost me to ship the defective tube back to him.  The last time I told him to wait until he got 1 of the new batch so I was without an EML for about 2 months while waiting.  I'm glad I waited as the new EML is working like a charm.  Also glad I bought through him.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for sharing your experience, it helps.  Hopefully I will hear back from him tomorrow.


----------



## sillysally

The new redesigned EML5U4G mesh plate will have a silver top.
  The older EML5U4G mesh plate have been out of inventory for about 7 months.
   
  Anyway the new and the old EML5U4G mesh plates are about the same sounding tube. If I had to choose between the new and old I would take the new version.


----------



## stufaro

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I hope so I am really excited about this purchase. It's my first headphone amp so I do not really know what to except. Always been a 2ch Loudspeaker guy before I found this site. Sort of wondering if a headphone amp can be compared to the same improvements that a dedicated phono stage/pre amp offers for SQ on a turntable, wherein soundstage and overall control are much better as well as the obvious volume gain. If this is the case I will certainly be happy with it. @*MacedonianHero *Did you go with the stock WA2 or did you opt for the Blackgate caps or other upgrades?


----------



## vinyllp33

sillysally said:


> The new redesigned EML5U4G mesh plate will have a silver top.
> 
> 
> The older EML5U4G mesh plate have been out of inventory for about 7 months.
> ...





 


sillysally didn't last set of EML you had have clear tops?

I thought that was one of the differences in the redesign?

Thanks


----------



## hozo

Dropping in on the conversation... 
   

   
   
  Just got a WA22 and want to share some initial impressions for anyone else looking to pair them with D7000. Now I wish I had joined you guys years ago. I normally don't give initial fanboy honeymoon impressions, but couldn't help it this time.

 FLACs, 192/44 mp3s(so sue me) -> *DacMagic *-> cheap XLR cables -> *Woo Audio WA22* (stock tubes!) -> 4pin XLR + stock cable (not in pic) -> *D7000* (markl, j$)

*Initial impressions:*
 This thing is AWESOME!  Pure sweetness with wide and airy soundstage.  Clarity, power, deep bass, you got it.  WA22 is laid back yet forward somehow.  It's very musical and easy to listen to.  No fatigue at all.
   
  Head-fi Chesky tracks since most have these:

 Tumbao De Tamborito -  4:00-6:00 sequence is airy and easy to locate individual drums.
 Heartbeat - 1 scary, 2 scary, 3 good bass, 4 dropping off (could just be my hearing)
 Money - clear instrument separation and drummer on the right has excellent imaging.
 Get Behind the Mule - around 3:30, the reverb on the tapping is incredible.  One of those, "I never realized it moments."
 Texas Rangers - sweet voice.  The airy soundstage makes her voice less in-your-face and pulls her back a bit.  She's still clear as wire, but more "speaker-like."
 
*Balanced vs Single Ended?*
 My non-golden ears can't tell, only that it sounds damn good. Switching between the balanced/SE inputs (4pin XLR and 1/4"adapter plug) on the WA22 is a very noticeable improvement.  However, it's could be the push pull topology is just better with balanced input (or the level boost).

 Previous experience (all from _super duper accurate _memory):

 Owned: SACD -> 61NP diy amp/Little Dot MKIV -> hd580/600/650 (good for acoustic guitar)  Compared to current: not as airy
 Owned: SACD -> KGSS -> Omega 2 (awesome, in a different way. un-listenable with with bad recordings. not a fan of it for rock)
 Compared to current: requires good recordings, just different character.
 Owned: SACD -> cheap speaker amp -> K1000 (It's the K1K, how can it not be awesome) Compared to current: less bass, but
 K1K is just special.
 Listened: SDS->L3000/R10 Compared to current: both are lovely, can't say I remembered as much "air" but it's been too long.
 Listened: SACD -> McIntosh -> Apogee speakers (killer soundstage/imaging) Compared to current: headphones have better clarity
 Listened: SACD -> ML monoblocks -> Genesis 1.1 speakers (No headphone, dynamic/e-stat/planar speaker I've ever heard comes close to this thing's clarity, attack, imaging, and impact) Compared to current: 1 ton vs 30lbs.  delivered by 18 wheeler vs your friendly fedex guy.
   
  Edit: note with balanced inputs, my normal listening level is 9 o'clock on the volume knob (not like the pic).  plenty of headroom.


----------



## grokit

Nice WA22 impressions (and a nice WA22 as well), *hozo*.
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> sillysally didn't last set of EML you had have clear tops?I thought that was one of the differences in the redesign?Thanks


 

 My EML 5U4G is only a few weeks old and it has a silver top, I hope it lasts for awhile!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> sillysally didn't last set of EML you had have clear tops?I thought that was one of the differences in the redesign?Thanks


 

 Yes first redesigned had the clear top about 11 months ago and I think EML switched back to the silver tops about 7 months ago for there redesigned EML 5U4G..
  Anyway the EML 5U4G's that both Jack and George are shipping are silver tops.
   
  I have both redesigned clear and silver top EML 5U4G mesh plates, for my system I can't tell any difference between them. As I said there was a little difference between the before redesigned and the redesigned.
   
  Yes I understand what you are getting at but at this time I think it to be ill advised to start a witch hunt. That said you may want to keep track of the clear and silver tops that go bad, but I don't think there is any problem as long as you let your amp cool down before you restart it.


----------



## vinyllp33

Thanks sillysally, I was only trying to confirm the different versions of this tube.

I'm sure, as you said there is little or no sonic difference between them.


----------



## ardilla

WA2 indahaouse! Waaaaw


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice WA22 impressions (and a nice WA22 as well), *hozo*.


 
   
  Indeed - and a great pic!  Congrats.


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> WA2 indahaouse! Waaaaw


 

 Cool - mine's being delivered Friday. PS Audio Power Plant Premier regenerator is coming tomorrow. be sure to post your impressions.


----------



## Icenine2

My EML is just over a month old and it has a silver top.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> The new redesigned EML5U4G mesh plate will have a silver top.
> The older EML5U4G mesh plate have been out of inventory for about 7 months.
> 
> Anyway the new and the old EML5U4G mesh plates are about the same sounding tube. If I had to choose between the new and old I would take the new version.


 

 Thanks, sal.  I have the new version then because my mesh plate has a silver top.
   
  Day two and still no email from Jack.  He must be totally busy getting everyone's new amp's out.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





hozo said:


> Dropping in on the conversation...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hozo,
   
  Thanks for your photo and discussion of impressions.  You say stock tubes in the WA22?  What is the rectifier?  That looks different to me.
   
  Glad to hear you really like your WA22, they get better with different tubes.  It's a great journey.


----------



## hozo

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...What is the rectifier?  That looks different to me....


 


  It's a Shuguang 274B.  I guess Jack includes them as stock sometimes.


----------



## Icenine2

That's the same Shu rectifier I got w/my WA22 as well.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> That's the same Shu rectifier I got w/my WA22 as well.


 

 That is stock?


----------



## Icenine2

Yes Mike, stock.


----------



## Icenine2

I should have added that it sounds quite good as well.  I burned the stock tubes for about 6-10 hours to make sure all was well and it sounded great.  I did switch to the EML and Shu treasures afterward.  The stocks sounded quite good.  I actually had a few moments of thinking about getting the 5LE and living w/stock tubes until I could afford the others since these were good.


----------



## ardilla

how/how long to burn in a WA2?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> how/how long to burn in a WA2?


 

 In general the WA22 itself does not take long to break in, maybe 10 to 15 hours.  What really takes time are the tubes.  Depending on what you have, that is where the time is.  There was a few questions about that in this thread with some specific answers.  If you search and find it, I think you'll find it very helpful.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> how/how long to burn in a WA2?


 


  Depends you have BG or not, it takes around 300 hours on the BG...


----------



## ardilla

My WA2 hasn't got Blackgates, it has stock tubes (but a DACT attenuator)
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> ardilla said:
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> My WA2 hasn't got Blackgates, it has stock tubes (but a DACT attenuator)
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 From my experience on tube amps, most caps takes around 50-100 hours to burn in.  I have no experience on WA2.  I don't think attenuator needs burn in but once you used one, you will never go back.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hozo said:


> Dropping in on the conversation...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice writeup and photo hozo.  Anybody who has heard Genesis speakers would definitely know good sound.  That your impression of the WA22 is that positive with stock tubes says a lot about the amp.  Welcome to the Woo family.  
   
  It looks like your stock power tubes are 6080.  If balanced adds that much gain it might actually pose a problem to run 5998 or 7236 tubes, which I find interesting.


----------



## Double F

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Black Gates don't actually burn in. It takes your ears 300 hours to adjust to the sound.


----------



## ardilla

*Double F: *Are you a burn-in non believer, or is there a very special thing about the Blakgates?
   
  Quote: 





double f said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jc9394 said:
> ...


----------



## Double F

I had black gate caps in one piece of equipment and no matter how much break-in they never sounded as good as standard caps.  Here is a interesting piece on the subject:
http://www.goodsound.com/editorial/201001.htm


----------



## Groundzero

Quote:


double f said:


> I had black gate caps in one piece of equipment and no matter how much break-in they never sounded as good as standard caps.  Here is a interesting piece on the subject:
> http://www.goodsound.com/editorial/201001.htm


 

 That article is interesting, however there is one problem. (for me at least) I had a couple BG caps put in a few months after getting my amp and they sounded better than stock straight away, before any burn-in/ear adjusting. They did get better over time, but the initial jump in sound quality was bigger than the total burn-in.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I got the stock amp, but with some tube upgrades (NOS Sylvania 7236, NOS Tung-sol Chatham 5998, Genalex Gold Lion 6922s), I seem to have spent a bit more than initially intended 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (thanks in no small part to my two very good friends Rob and Frank 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). ETA for my amp is tomorrow before lunch.....long afternoon at work, then kids have gymnastics, so likely not until 8pm before I power up the amp for the first time.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





double f said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is really funny!  I LUV it!


----------



## Double F

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> double f said:
> ...


 
  Of course YMMV.  But why have they stop making them?  Either most people think they suck or they are building up the mystique and price for a reintroduction.


----------



## Silent One

> @ mikemalter
> 
> Your avatar shows with great ease how musical your WA22 has become. Surely, you wanna reveal what track was playing at that moment in time, yes?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> > @ mikemalter
> >
> > Your avatar shows with great ease how musical your WA22 has become. Surely, you wanna reveal what track was playing at that moment in time, yes?


 

 Well, my wife took that picture of me.  We were in an airplane on our way to Hawaii to celebrate the 18th anniversary of our marriage.  I don't remember what I was listening to at the time, but I do remember my wife was very happy about going.
   
  I notice on your profile you are on sabbatical in northern california.  What is your job and whereabouts are you staying?  Also, sometime I would really like to get your take on good stationary as I am into fountain pens and paper too.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, did they have someplace to plug in the WA22 on the airplane?!  My wife and I were just on Kauai but alas, no such accommodations on our flight. Which island did you go to, Mike?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I only wish!  Wouldn't that be a hoot getting it through airport security.
   
  We went to Maui and stayed in the Kaanapali beach area near the airport.


----------



## ardilla

Having listened to my brad new WA2, I'm a bit puzzled. I haven't owned a tube amp before - and expected it to be warmish-sounding. But it's not? A bit disappointed, there I must say. And I find it  slightly on the bright side, even though it also pulls out more bass from the HD650's and T1's than my other/previous amps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great photograph! Nuthin' says relaxation like that shot. That's why I thought the '22' was behind it. Her happiness is reflected in your pose, making it a shared joy - congrats on the anniversary. What luxury hotels/resorts could do to differentiate themselves from the marketplace is provide a few suites outfitted with Woo Audio gear. And have them set up on timers to prevent clueless guests from cycling the amps on and off protecting the rectifier/amp. And protection from theft? Why, the hefty advanced blocking on your credit card, of course! But I digress. All the talk of islands and resorts have me day dreaming...
   
  I will address the second half of your questions tonight in a reserved manner (PM). Looking forward to catching up to you and Clayton SF in February.


----------



## khollister

Oh-oh. What are the stock tubes (and are you using the stock tubes)? 
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Having listened to , my brad new WA2, I'm a bit puzzled. I haven't owned a tube amp before - and expected it to be warmish sounding. But it's not? A bit disappointed, there I must say. And I find it  slightly on the bright side, even though it also pulls out more bass from the HD650's and T1's than my other/previous amps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Having listened to , my brad new WA2, I'm a bit puzzled. I haven't owned a tube amp before - and expected it to be warmish sounding. But it's not? A bit disappointed, there I must say. And I find it  slightly on the bright side, even though it also pulls out more bass from the HD650's and T1's than my other/previous amps.


 

 At over 8,300 Kilometers away, I don't know what to expect either (kidding). I would expect your initial impression to be very different from one at a later date. My WA6SE changed five times by hours 405 - 425. The first 20 hours had me questioning both the money spent and the extra time I had to wait for it to be shipped. As my Woo started coming of age, so did my grin, _which eventually became down right silly... I am now happy._


----------



## TheWuss

i had the same reaction when i got my wa6.
  i soon realized the stock rectifier was garbage.
  so that was quickly changed.
   
  and then i upgraded my source... and then cables...  and then driver tubes...  and then power cord...  and then headphones....
   
  and, here i am a year later, still enjoying the wa6.
  and, surrounded by killer "stuff", it still holds its own. 
  sounds fantastic, even...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Having listened to , my brad new WA2, I'm a bit puzzled. I haven't owned a tube amp before - and expected it to be warmish sounding. But it's not? A bit disappointed, there I must say. And I find it  slightly on the bright side, even though it also pulls out more bass from the HD650's and T1's than my other/previous amps.


 


  The tubes need time to settle.  In some cases quite a bit of time.  I've heard tubes go from cold and harsh to smooth and warm given enough time.  The tubes themselves also matter a lot.  You can adjust the sound by picking different output tubes, and the rectifier will affect how well those output tubes perform.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> i had the same reaction when i got my wa6.
> i soon realized the stock rectifier was garbage.
> so that was quickly changed.
> 
> ...


 
   
  While I cannot predict ardilla's satisfaction (or anyone's here), patience & planning will bring about a more rewarding experience than the first one. Before taking shipment, I read this thread with wonder and also gained some insight from Jack. I started with_ Sophia_ & RCA 6EW7 tubes and wanted to build a familiar base before setting out to make changes.
   
  I rolled my first driver tubes at hour 432. Then upgraded interconnects... power cord... the source and so on.  Recently added a linear power supply to my DAC. Threw in 8gb ram yesterday for the Mac mini and currently agonizing over adding an SSD to the little one. And at some point, that big bad EML! With each small step comes extended joy when listening to music. I think ardilla is gonna be just fine...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Having listened to , my brad new WA2, I'm a bit puzzled. I haven't owned a tube amp before - and expected it to be warmish sounding. But it's not? A bit disappointed, there I must say. And I find it  slightly on the bright side, even though it also pulls out more bass from the HD650's and T1's than my other/previous amps.


 

 Listening to mine right now for the first time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








.
   
  Right off, I'm finding it more tube-like than the Woo6 (from memory). I'm using the stock power tubes (GE 6080s), JAN Phillips driver tubes (6922s) and the stock rectifier tubes. Overall, I feel that the WA2 and T1s are a match made in heaven! The T1s are coming off warmer than on my Concerto (a good thing) with goobs of headroom. I plan to use this configuration for a few days just to get a feel for the amp. Next will be the JAN Sylvania 7236 or NOS Tung-Sol Chatham 5998s and then I'll drop in my Genalex Gold Lion 6922s.


----------



## Skylab

Congrats Peter! Great amp, and especially with your headphones


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Congrats Peter! Great amp, and especially with your headphones


 


  All I can say is you called it about the T1/WA2 synergy Rob. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A match made in heaven! As good a pairing for synergy as my MAD/RS1i headphones.
   
  Next CD, I'll pop in the LCD-2s and if time permits the HD800s.


----------



## Skylab

I spent some time today with the WA2 and the HD800 with my new Moon Blue Dragon cable. Wile I still prefer the T1, the HD800 sounded excellent on the WA2.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I spent some time today with the WA2 and the HD800 with my new Moon Blue Dragon cable. Wile I still prefer the T1, the HD800 sounded excellent on the WA2.


 


  Nice to know. I may not have time until tomorrow to give the HD800s a try.
   
  Did you find some treble-relief with the Blue Dragon cable / HD800s?


----------



## khollister

macedonianhero said:


> All I can say is you called it about the T1/WA2 synergy Rob.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 


Mine should be here tomorrow. I guess I have to get some T1's next - oh wait, I have new DAC on order too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Mine should be here tomorrow. I guess I have to get some T1's next - oh wait, I have new DAC on order too.


 

 This place is truly sinister. Which DAC?
   
  I can confirm that the WA2 and LCD-2 pairing = AMAZING! Listening to Michael Buble with the pairing and simply breathtaking!


----------



## jax

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And at some point, that big bad EML! With each small step comes extended joy when listening to music. I think ardilla is gonna be just fine...


 


  Going from the Sophia to an EML (5U4G) in my WA6SEm was not a "small step" by any stretch of the imagination.  The Sophia is highly overrated, at least as a rectifier in the WA6 IMO - I just don't get that preference at all.  I can't speak to the WA2 though, so YMMV, but well worth trying if results are the same as with the WA6.


----------



## khollister

macedonianhero said:


> This place is truly sinister. Which DAC?
> 
> I can confirm that the WA2 and LCD-2 pairing = AMAZING! Listening to Michael Buble with the pairing and simply breathtaking!





 


Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2


 

 Nice...you're going to have on killer setup!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I'm buying a T1 next with the ALO Chain Mail (balanced for the WA22).  Ken now has 2 versions of the chain mail

 18awg original Flat Chain Mail
 22awg new Round Chain Mail
   
  Ken is telling me that the new round cable is going to be the standard for the LCD-2 orders he takes and that I really should go with it on the T1 as it is much lighter and flexible.  What do you guys think?  Any reason not to go with the new Round version? 
   
  stupid head-fi
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 always draining my bank account


----------



## Skylab

I'd take the advice. I had the older chain mail ALO cable, and it sounded great, but was really heavy.


----------



## musicman59

22 wag should be more than enough. I would go with that one.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I had trouble getting my iPod and Headsix amp with a fat ALO line out dock through security coming back from Maui a couple of years ago...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Asked Jack to toss Ms.Sophia in the box cause I knew I didn't want the stock rectifier. In listening to a variety of genres worldwide, I think Ms.Sophia served her role as a stop-gap measure sometimes with difficulty, sometimes with satisfaction but on the whole, well enough for time served. But now, "It's over, Johnny!" ...er... Ms.Sophia! Time for some EML glass (funds permitting).
   
  Actually had funds allocated for the 5U4G Mesh three times this past autumn but new batches hadn't arrived from overseas. I wouldn't call myself impatient (okay, you got me!), I simply moved to the next item on the list of upgrades. Definitely looking to follow your footsteps from Sophia to EML in the WA6/6SE series...


----------



## ardilla

Great to hear MacedioanHero  
   
  I have stock tubes in the WA2 ( _6AS7 / 6080_ power tubes;  _6922 / 6DJ8 driver tubes; _ _EZ80_ rectification tubes)
   
  It does sound very good - just miss that extra warmth I had somehow expected. My Naim Headline SS amp sounds just as warm. However - it might be a source issues as well. 
   
  But I'd be glad if anyone could give me a tube rolling advice on how to soften the treble.
   
  The Beyer T1s are still too bright for me on the WA2 as it is right now..
   
  So: *warm, soft-treble - tubes for the WA2 ?* Anyone? And where to get tubes generally?
   
    
  Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

So: *warm, soft-treble - tubes for the WA2?*
   
  You may want to look into a matched pair of Ken Rad VT-231. They show up on eBay sometimes, also Google is your friend.


----------



## khollister

What are your sources and interconnect cables? If you have the same tubes as Pete did in his new one, the only tube I would consider rolling at this point is the 6922. The JAN Philips 6922 has the rep of being a little hot in the upper mids. 

I'm not sure you will fix this with tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So: *warm, soft-treble - tubes for the WA2?*
> 
> You may want to look into a matched pair of Ken Rad VT-231. They show up on eBay sometimes, also Google is your friend.


 

 Those would work in the *WA22*, but not the *WA2*.
   
  I'd look for some Mullard CV2492 to use in place of the 6922's.  They are a bit warmer/softer than your typical 6922, while still being nicely detailed.  Pricey, though. 
   
  Also, stay FAR away from the 6080.  Get a pair of RCA 6AS7G's.  They're the warmest of the output tubes for the WA2.  Cheap, too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Also, stay FAR away from the 6080.  Get a pair of RCA 6AS7G's.  They're the warmest of the output tubes for the WA2.  Cheap, too.


 


  Unless you can find a pair of GEC 6080, to my ear, they are better than RCA 6AS7G.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Right - I was referring to the US-made 6080's, all of which I have found to be bright sounding.


----------



## Icenine2

Yes, take his advice.  I've spoken w/a few guys who had this and flexibility was an issue.
  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I'm buying a T1 next with the ALO Chain Mail (balanced for the WA22).  Ken now has 2 versions of the chain mail
> 
> 18awg original Flat Chain Mail
> 22awg new Round Chain Mail
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

Leave the headphone stuff at home and go Windsurfing on Maui.  I've done just that and never missed the gear!  
  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## khollister

The Woo Is In the House!!!
   
  Just unpacked my silver WA2, put the tubes in (RCA 6080, completely unmarked 6922's, United Electron EZ80's, made in Germany - Valvo's?) - and nothing! Both rectifier tubes were stone cold, DOA. Fortunately I had some extra tubes I had stockpiled, so I dropped a couple Amperex Bugle Boy (German Valvo's remarked) EZ80's in and wamma-jamma, we have liftoff!
   
  Sounds pretty nice stone cold with zero hours. Certainly not bright (at least by my standards). Tonally, it is remarkably close to my RSA HR-2 (with 797 opamps). If anything it sounds somewhat closed down and not particularly "airy", but no cause for concern until I get at least 50-75 hours on it.
   
  Beautifully constructed little devil and even the wife thinks it looks cool (modern retro was her pronouncement). She said she looked it up online to see how much it costs. Fortunately, she hasn't been snooping around the huge PS Audio Power Plant Premier that showed in my rack recently, although it's kinda hard to miss that with the blue LED front panel display 
   
  Kinda silly to make any judgements yet, but I swear the driver tubes are those crappy JAN Philips/Amperex 6922's - there is certainly some upper midrange "glare" that is definitely not there with the HR-2 as I listen while typing this. FOrtunately I have some JAN Sylvania and Amperex Holland 6DJ8's on hand once it breaks in.


----------



## jc9394

khollister said:


> The Woo Is In the House!!!
> 
> Just unpacked my silver WA2, put the tubes in (RCA 6080, completely unmarked 6922's, United Electron EZ80's, made in Germany - Valvo's?) - and nothing! Both rectifier tubes were stone cold, DOA. Fortunately I had some extra tubes I had stockpiled, so I dropped a couple Amperex Bugle Boy (German Valvo's remarked) EZ80's in and wamma-jamma, we have liftoff!
> 
> ...


 

 Nice save with extra tubes on hand.  It will be a pity to have such a beauty but can't play with it.


----------



## khollister

Quote:  





>





> Nice save with extra tubes on hand.  It will be a pity to have such a beauty but can't play with it.


 
   
  No kidding - otherwise I would have been driving like a madman down to see Jim at Vacuum Tubes, Inc. downtown here in Orlando. At least I have a couple local sources in case of emergency (like getting a new Woo with a bum tube)


----------



## ardilla

My wife said "Welcome to the space-age", when she saw the WA2. Also, she kinda hinted that I should look for bigger bed side table. Don't know why. And also she said: "I',m not saying anything.."
   
Quote:



khollister said:


> Beautifully constructed little devil and even the wife thinks it looks cool (modern retro was her pronouncement). She said she looked it up online to see how much it costs.


----------



## ardilla

Thanks for the advise! I'll go shopping for tubes, then. Any more advise is still welcome - seems like I'm going to become a tube roller...
   
   
*warm, soft-treble - tubes for the WA2 ?* Quote:



skylab said:


> I'd look for some Mullard CV2492 to use in place of the 6922's.  They are a bit warmer/softer than your typical 6922, while still being nicely detailed.  Pricey, though.
> 
> Also, stay FAR away from the 6080.  Get a pair of RCA 6AS7G's.  They're the warmest of the output tubes for the WA2.  Cheap, too.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > skylab said:
> ...


----------



## khollister

So this thing is really opening up in just a couple hours use. Listening to some Alison Krause, Iris Dement and Alan Jackson acoustic stuff and I actually have goosebumps. The AAM/Richard Egarr Brandenburg Concertos on Harmonia Mundi (96/24 iTrax download) is pretty amazing too.
   
  Wow - once this gets broken in with some good tubes in it it will be a religious experience.
   
  Keith


----------



## stufaro

@*MacedonianHero  *dont forget to mention how it sounds with the RS1i if you get some time.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I had trouble getting my iPod and Headsix amp with a fat ALO line out dock through security coming back from Maui a couple of years ago...


 


  Fess up, what were you bringing back stashed in there, Larry?  On our recent trip to Kauai, we did an entirely crazy wonderful thing and rescued a dog from the animal shelter there (where my wife was also doing a workshop).  Long story and wrong thread, but it's been an entirely unexpected blessing for two dog-lovers.


----------



## Icenine2

Someone here mentioned the upcoming Oppo BD-95 : dual Sabre's, Rotel Torrodial, balanced, SACD, DVDA, FLAC playback.  Although I'm probably still getting the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 this does look really good.  Still a mechanical playback so that would probably steer me out of this.  Looks really nice though.
   
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/89632?gclid=CPbQza_7y6YCFY64KgodFWbxHw


----------



## khollister

Here's the current setup ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





khollister said:


> So this thing is really opening up in just a couple hours use. Listening to some Alison Krause, Iris Dement and Alan Jackson acoustic stuff and I actually have goosebumps. The AAM/Richard Egarr Brandenburg Concertos on Harmonia Mundi (96/24 iTrax download) is pretty amazing too.
> 
> Wow - once this gets broken in with some good tubes in it it will be a religious experience.
> 
> Keith


 

 Taking shipment on a Friday, tube issue resolved and the wife's approval? Man, that's living right, living well and _living for the weekend_... congrats and enjoy!


----------



## WindyCityCy

You're in trouble when she searches for the PPP and sees the cost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You spent WHAT for a power strip!!!!
  
  Quote: 





khollister said:


> Here's the current setup ...


----------



## jax

He could always tell her that it's the preamp!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> You're in trouble when she searches for the PPP and sees the cost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

That is exactly why I have not order mines yet...
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> You're in trouble when she searches for the PPP and sees the cost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is exactly why I have not order mines yet...
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Well there are two new units coming out, the P5 & P10 - OMG!


----------



## WindyCityCy

You're really trying to get these guys in trouble now aren't you - could buy 2-3 PPPs for the cost of a P10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> @*MacedonianHero  *dont forget to mention how it sounds with the RS1i if you get some time.


 


  I actually did get to listen to the WA2/RS1i combo a bit last night and it worked very well. For an OTL amp, the WA2 works very well with low impedance Grados. I actually prefer the WA2 with the RS1i than the Concerto. But in the end, the MAD Ear+HD / RS1i combo is still king of the heap.


----------



## sillysally

@icenine2
   
  If you will use the BD-95 for movies then it becomes a no brain-er for your WA22 with its XLR balanced stereo outs, if you are sold on the Sabre 32 9018 DAC.
   
  The Saber 32 9018/9016 DAC solutions are very hard to get right, W4S is a small company and Oppo is a bigger company with bigger resources. Oppo has been using the Saber 32 9016 in there BD-83SE and still have not gotten it right.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jax said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It looked too much like a bomb with a timer.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I still liked RS1i with the high impedance on the WA6 vs low.  So in a way I agree.  Personally I'm dying to get hands on a LCD2.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> @icenine2
> 
> If you will use the BD-95 for movies then it becomes a no brain-er for your WA22 with its XLR balanced stereo outs, if you are sold on the Sabre 32 9018 DAC.
> 
> The Saber 32 9018/9016 DAC solutions are very hard to get right, W4S is a small company and Oppo is a bigger company with bigger resources. Oppo has been using the Saber 32 9016 in there BD-83SE and still have not gotten it right.


 
   
  What haven't they gotten right?


----------



## mikemalter

Update on my blown EML.
   
  Jack said there is a year warranty and for me to send the tube in and he'll inspect and replace.  He has two on hand that are promised so someone here has something really nice coming to them.  I'm going to have to wait for the new shipment and the last time it took over a month.
   
  Oh well.  I wanted to have it for the norcal meet next month, but I guess it was not to be.


----------



## mikemalter

Does anyone know how to mark an item as sold?  I went into my tube ad and kept clicking on close and save but it won't close.


----------



## Icenine2

In the yellow highlighted area there are links in the upper left hand side I believe.  Click on the Sold or cancel link.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> In the yellow highlighted area there are links in the upper left hand side I believe.  Click on the Sold or cancel link.


 

 Ok, I just found it.  You can click on the closed link all day and it will never close.  There is another link over all the way on the right is light grey so you can barely see it.  That did it.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Right now Oppo has there internal clock turned off for playback of SACD's. The reason is because with there internal clock on it may cause lock-up's. However with the clock turned off there is a slight risk of everything locking up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So it may be wise to wait for some reports on the new Oppo BD-95 to see how good the Saber 9018 works in there player. After all the BD-95 looks like it will be priced at $1000. that is a very large increase from the upgrade package that Oppo had for the BD-83 ($300)
  Also to be fair Oppo is not the only company that is having problems with the use of the Saber 9018/9016 DAC solution.


----------



## Skylab

Well, I plan to be an early adopter of the BD-95 nonetheless.  I want a player that will do the new hi-res surround formats on blu-ray.  And My Denon DVD-5900, while an excellent deck and one that has served me well, is a little dated.  I've ordered a new high end 192/24 capable DAC, so that and the Oppo should provide a nice digital source upgrade.


----------



## Icenine2

Music Direct is taking pre-orders on the Oppo for $999.  There's plenty of info there and at Oppo's site.  It will play FLAC so you could burn the high-res to disc and playback plus it has high-res SACD, DVDA playback.  It is balanced too and looks like it has a great power supply.  It isn't an upgrade but a whole new design.  You could always but they Ayre universal player that is based on an Oppos chassis.  Of course that is 10K, not 1K.  But the Ayre has asynch USB.  Worth and extra 9K? No.  This is a killer chip to begin with and shouldn't need an external DAC at all.  The old version of this got an A rating from Stereophile an that is about as good as it's going to get unless you spring for a DCS system for major $$$.  The only drawback to me is it is mechanical w/a spinning disc so you get that whole issue.
   
  I am still probably gong to get the Wyred DAC2.  The whole argument that Oppo has more $$, resources doesn't register otherwise Apple Computer sized companies should have the best DAC's in the world with their spare cash and resources.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I plan to be an early adopter of the BD-95 nonetheless.  *I want a player that will do the new hi-res surround formats on blu-ray.*  And My Denon DVD-5900, while an excellent deck and one that has served me well, is a little dated.  I've ordered a new high end 192/24 capable DAC, so that and the Oppo should provide a nice digital source upgrade.






   
  Hmm, I don't see any real reason to upgrade, as there's no difference in the surround formats supported by Oppo's new flagship and my lowly BDP-80. There is 3D video support (BD Profile 5), but IMHO, 3D is no better than it was in the 1960's and just a gimmick now like it was then. Neither seem to support BD Profile 3.0, which is the audio-only profile, intended to be used with audio-only Blu-ray discs (but probably redundant for the BDP video players).
   
BDP-95:

 Disc Types* BD-Video, Blu-ray 3D, DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, AVCHD, SACD, CD, HDCD,
 Kodak Picture CD, CD-R/RW, DVD±R/RW, DVD±R DL, BD-R/RE BD Profile BD-ROM Version 2.4 Profile 5 for 3D (also compatible with Profile 2, Profile 1 Version 1.0 and 1.1)
  Multi-Channel Analog Audio: 7.1ch, 5.1ch, or stereo
 Dedicated Stereo Analog Audio: XLR balanced and RCA single-ended
 Digital Audio: Coaxial, Optical
 HDMI Audio: Stereo, up to 7.1ch high-resolution PCM, up to 5.1ch DSD, bitstream or LPCM conversion of Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio.
 Analog Video: Composite, Component Video (Y/Pb/Pr, 480i/480p, 720p/1080i available for non-restricted content only)
 Digital Video: HDMI with HDCP (NTSC: 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p/1080p24, PAL 576i/576p/720p/1080i/1080p/1080p24)
   
BDP-80:

 Disc Types* BD-Video, DVD-Video, AVCHD, DVD-Audio, SACD, CD, HDCD, Kodak Picture CD
 CD-R/RW, DVD±R/RW, DVD±R DL, BD-R/RE BD Profile BD-ROM Version 2 Profile 2 (also compatible with Profile 1 Version 1.0 and 1.1)
  Analog Audio: 7.1ch (also supports 5.1ch and stereo modes)
 Digital Audio: Coaxial, Optical
 HDMI Audio: Stereo, up to 7.1ch high-resolution PCM, up to 5.1ch DSD, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream output or decoded into LPCM.
 Analog Video: Composite, S-Video, Component Video (Y/Pb/Pr, 480i/480p, 720p/1080i available for non-restricted content only)
 Digital Video: HDMI with HDCP (NTSC: 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p/1080p24, PAL 576i/576p/720p/1080i/1080p/1080p24)
   
  The BDP-95 has better stereo analog specs and features balanced outputs, but all I need for my surround receiver is the 8-channel analog outputs. Almost all of my digital audio is HDD-based anyways, which I playback on the same all-analog balanced stereo system that also supports my turntable, as well as SE through my surround system. My basic HD decoding receiver, (discrete class D, stereo biamping/biwiring included, $300 on sale, 2.5 years old), supports all the current surround formats as well:
   
  BD PLAYER 8CH 4Hz-40kHz, ±2dB
  Dolby Digital Decoder (Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital EX)
 Dolby Pro Logic (IIx)
 DTS Decoder (DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD Low Bit Rate, DTS ES, Neo:6, DTS 96/24)
  8-ch Discrete Inputs
   
_edit:_ Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I just don't see any additional surround formats supported by the BDP-95 compared to the two-year old BDP-80. Perhaps it's the balanced stereo outputs that you're after? The BDP-95 looks like a great player but it costs over 3X as much as the BDP-80, and for surround discrete 8-channel is the way to go anyways IMO.


----------



## Aegir

My Woo-6 (stock - stock rectifier; unit only 1.5 months old) produces a slight audible hum upon power on (this is normal & disappears after the tubes warm up...usually within about 5 - 7 seconds).
   
  A new phenomenon is an audible hum only when the volume knob is touched.  This hum responds to the volume pot - more noticeable when the pot is turned up.  It isn't a big deal; I can't even hear it when music is playing.  I'm just curious what the culprit might be, as I suspect it's way too early to be replacing any tubes.
   
  I have a hospital grade isolation transformer, and a signal cable power cord; I think this is relevant.
   
  I've only just noticed this hum since I started using my i-Pod connected to the Woo via an Audiophile Products LOD. (This is a temporary setup, as I await delivery of my new Audio GD Dac.) Previously, I was using a Pico DAC via USB to my MacBook.
   
  Hum (touching volume pot only, otherwise dead silent) is present w/o the isolation transformer, present using a different LOD, and present (less audible) using different headphones.
   
  I'm not an expert in electronics theory, however, I suspect this hum has something to do with ground?  Can someone please confirm this?
   
  My current source (the iPod) is "floating" or ungrounded.  Previously, the Mac book via Pico was grounded at the mains by the MacBook's AC cord (correct?)
   
  I can't confirm if the hum was present when I was using the MacBook with battery only; I no longer have a dac to do an a/b comparison.  I suspect it wasn't , though, as I would've noticed it.
   
  When the new dac arrives, this hum issue will be the first thing that I test!
   
  I also just posted this here, in another thread:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/365973/wooaudio6-se-owners-does-your-power-component-humm/285j
   
  That thread hasn't had any activity since last year.  If this current post is considered thread hi-jacking, kindly let me know so that I may edit.  If posting the same question in multiple forums is against the rules, please also let me know.
   
  Thanks to all.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## WindyCityCy

This forum seems to have slowed down recently.  Everyone must be enjoying their Woos


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I plan to be an early adopter of the BD-95 nonetheless.  I want a player that will do the new hi-res surround formats on blu-ray.  And My Denon DVD-5900, while an excellent deck and one that has served me well, is a little dated.  I've ordered a new high end 192/24 capable DAC, so that and the Oppo should provide a nice digital source upgrade.


 

 Yes the Oppo is a good universal source player and coupled with your new DAC should work very well. The really nice part of the Sabre 9018 and 9016 (used in the BD83SE for 2Ch) is that it is very fast with its internal clock and very nice note separation, I only hope that Oppo overcomes there implementation of the Sabre 9018, and fixes the LFE bug.
   
  However if you are mostly going to use the Oppo-95 as a HDMI digital transport then your money is better spent on the BD-93 or some other brand that sells for less but that will give you the same or better AQ/PQ.
   
  There is only one reason why I would buy a Oppo over say a Panasonic is because of there analog audio board, and not because of its use of the Sabre 9018 DAC solution but because the other BD players that don't cost over $1000 don't have as good of a analog board as does the Oppo 95.


----------



## lukaskite

*Quote: **warm, soft-treble - tubes for the WA2?*
   
  If someone looking for warm tubes for wa2 then i recommend:
   
  -Amperex BB ECC88 from 1960 and up (they are the softest/warmest drivers i have ever heard, pretty big soundstage with TS 5998),
  -Philips miniwatt EZ80 (especially with code "LOL" mazda made, they are like BB above warm and soft).
   
  With tubes brands its usually something like this:
   
  -England (dark, holographic, with carmel like mids, lots of body),
  -Holland (warm, soft, less dark/dynamic than above),
  -Germany (neutral/bright, best dynamic and soundstage, less body/mids, slightly SS sounding).             
   
  As for RCA 6AS7G i can't find to much warmth in them only bloated lower mids and recessed frequency extremes. 
* *


----------



## mikemalter

I've been following the Oppo-95 thread and was wondering about the thinking of PS Audio's PWT & PWD?
   
  It seems that the Oppo is preferred.  Is it a pricing issue, or are there better/more features for the Oppo?


----------



## khollister

While I am sure the PWD/PWT combo is outstanding, it is $6000 vs $1000 for the Oppo. The Oppo also plays SACD, DVDA and Blu-ray video, which I do not believe the PWT does (if so, PS Audio certainly hides it in their literature). The PS Audio is probably a much more refined audio player (as long as SACD isn't part of the mix), but the excitement over the Oppo is due to the prospect of getting pretty good analog sound by high-end standards along with a music server and universal disc player that can be integrated into a home theater as well.
   
  My guess is the Oppo wins on features/price. Solutions like the PWD/PWT are more specialized solutions that offer improved performance beyond the "knee of the curve" as far as value for money goes for most.
   
  I could see myself potentially moving to the PWD and network bridge in the future, but I am rather puzzled by the apparent complete lack of SACD support. In reading thru the marketing literature, I see no reference to the PWD accepting DSD bitstreams from SACD transports over HDMI, which would seem to be a natural thing to add. I have not read any of the detailed reviews of the product, so it might be a hidden feature. Of course, there is the issue of SACD being a dormant, if not dying format, so it might not matter in the long run. I'm sure PS Audio's vision is that hi res downloads or DVD data discs (like from RR) is the future of audiophile 2-channel audio. Apparent lack of a blu-ray capable (for future hi res audio, not movies) transport in the PWT is also a possible concern going forward.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I've been following the Oppo-95 thread and was wondering about the thinking of PS Audio's PWT & PWD?
> 
> It seems that the Oppo is preferred.  Is it a pricing issue, or are there better/more features for the Oppo?


----------



## ardilla

Whats the difference between RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6AS7G_A_ ?



skylab said:


> Also, stay FAR away from the 6080.  Get a pair of RCA 6AS7G 's.  They're the warmest of the output tubes for the WA2.  Cheap, too.


----------



## Skylab

The GA is straight bottle, wgereas the G is coke bottle.  I have only ever see 6AS7GA's that were from GE, though.


----------



## khollister

In theory the GA is a straight bottle version of the G (which is an ST bottle shape). However, Skylab has said he feels they do not sound the same, although whether that is due to global differences in the design between G and GA or just the usual differences between any two versions of the same base part number. I have no experience with GA's myself. I think most of the GA's are later vintage than the usual RCA 6AS7G's, so its hard to say what is going on.
   
  I have been swapping some tubes in my new WA2 out of curiosity, and while the RCA 6080's that came in it and the RCA 6AS7G's I have (grey plate) and TS 5998's certainly sound different, I'm not sure I would use the word "warmer" to describe it. The 6AS7G's do seem to have a less prominent treble, although it is not rolled off, compared to the 6080's, but I am not sure I describe the midrange as warmer. Of course my amp isn't broken in yet, and neither are the 6AS7G's (NOS used for the first time). The 5998's are used I believe and they did sound quite good, although probably not what you would be looking for if the treble is too hot with the T1's.
   
  I have some Svetlana 6H13 (or whatever the Ruskie tube number is) awaiting my signature at the Post Office, so I will try those soon. Those might be a good choice for what you are trying to achieve based on reports I've read.
   
  Trying a couple different 6DJ8's I have lead me to believe that could influence the sound as much as the output tubes. English Mullards or Dutch Amperex are your best bet for "less bright", but they are both expensive (the Mullards very much so now). Mullard EZ80/6V4's will also alter the sound towards "warm" and "mellow" if you can locate those.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Whats the difference between RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6AS7G_A_ ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





khollister said:


> While I am sure the PWD/PWT combo is outstanding, it is $6000 vs $1000 for the Oppo. The Oppo also plays SACD, DVDA and Blu-ray video, which I do not believe the PWT does (if so, PS Audio certainly hides it in their literature). The PS Audio is probably a much more refined audio player (as long as SACD isn't part of the mix), but the excitement over the Oppo is due to the prospect of getting pretty good analog sound by high-end standards along with a music server and universal disc player that can be integrated into a home theater as well.
> 
> My guess is the Oppo wins on features/price. Solutions like the PWD/PWT are more specialized solutions that offer improved performance beyond the "knee of the curve" as far as value for money goes for most.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.  I was curious as to what the thinking was.  Sounds like you get a lot for your money which is always a good thing.
   
  I vaguely remember the discussion thread over at PS Audio about SACD.  Paul said that licensing was very expensive, and the hardware costs were also an added expense.  Furtheremore they were not allowed to handle the digital stream in a way they thought best.  I'll try to get this summary right, and I might get my terms wrong so please bear with me,  Getting a digital signal off of a CD is not covered by a technical license, you can use any technology you want to read it, and once you have the bitstream, if you have a proprietary way of handling it (and they do) you can do what you want with the signal and process it any way you want.
   
  So PS Audio pulls the track into a 6 meg memory buffer and will error correct on the way in.  Now they have a buffer full of error corrected data and can stream back out with timing issues presenting a much more simplified problem.  The stream out is through their own standard using an HDMI cable.  SACD on the other hand is a package deal and you cannot simply grab the bitstream and then process it any way you want, you have to process it according to their licensing team using approved technology.  It was like having a complete seperate subsystem just for SACD.  So, they figured that since it's not a growing market and to keep the price of the DAC and PWT down, they opted out.  On dual level disks, you still get the CD track and can rip or play that.
   
  For me, I've stopped playing music from my disks and am ripping them and playing through my iPod / Wadia i170 for now.  I really like the convenience of playing off of a hard drive, and really like the higher rez music that is becoming more available.  My next target is a PWD with bridge.  They are going for $2800 on Audiogon.com now.  But that is a far cry from a thousand bucks for a good universal player with music server and good quality analog output.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> For me, I've stopped playing music from my disks and am ripping them and playing through my iPod / Wadia i170 for now.  I really like the convenience of playing off of a hard drive, and really like the higher rez music that is becoming more available.  *My next target is a PWD with bridge.  They are going for $2800 on Audiogon.com now. * But that is a far cry from a thousand bucks for a good universal player with music server and good quality analog output.


 

 You still have to factor in a NAS or Twonkey server running on a PC or MAC.  Last you will need a iTouch/iPhone/iPad to control the PWD and Twonkey server.


----------



## khollister

True if you are starting from scratch. In my case, I already had a Mac Mini music server with Amarra Mini and Pure Music licenses, so I opted for the W4S DAC-2 @ $1500 rather than the PWD.
   
  At this point, the PWD+Network Bridge would be the next upgrade given today's options.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, kind of.  PS Audio has released a free media server, so if you have a computer, that can be your media server.  And, strictly speaking, if you are at the computer, you don't need an iThingey.  However practically speaking, a NAS would be really nice to have and better than a computer, and an iThingey would make the experience better, so right again.
   
  I do get your point though, the media server route is more expensive than direct CD.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





khollister said:


> True if you are starting from scratch. In my case, I already had a Mac Mini music server with Amarra Mini and Pure Music licenses, so I opted for the W4S DAC-2 @ $1500 rather than the PWD.
> 
> At this point, the PWD+Network Bridge would be the next upgrade given today's options.
> 
> ...


 

 A while back, positive feedback did a review on computer audio and found that the Mac offered the best audio.  I have heard so many good things about the W4S DAC.  Have you read the reviews on 6Moons?


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A while back, positive feedback did a review on computer audio and found that the Mac offered the best audio.  I have heard so many good things about the W4S DAC.  Have you read the reviews on 6Moons?


 

 I read all of the reviews and every discussion thread I could find. The 6Moons review is really pretty poor (from a review standpoint) - the review in TAS this month is a lot more comprehensive. I am still a little nervous as I bought this without hearing it first. I should know in a few weeks if I made an expensive mistake.


----------



## Icenine2

I doubt you've made a mistake.  I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the W4S 2 will outperform the PWD hooked up to the PWT.  I don't believe for a second that Apple makes a better music computer/platform.
   
  If you look at the CES reports on Stereophile.com you can see how this whole USB computer based file playback is just exploding.  A really cool DAC is the M2Hi-Face Young.  It's 32/384!?!?  But no balanced.  I bet this would be great w/a WA5LE.
   
  If you don't like your DAC2 let me know.  I haven't ordered mine yet.
   
  Quote: 





khollister said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm pretty sure you did not make a mistake with the W4S.  I have not heard any bad things about it, and the people who have it are very pleased.


----------



## khollister

While the 2010 Mac Mini works extremely well as a music server due to the power management and PS design (that were done for reasons having nothing to do with audio), the real reason I think the Mac does so well is the availability of Pure Music and Amarra as software playback applications. It is quite amazing how different (and better) these apps sound than iTunes. Apple's contribution was an OS architecture that doesn't get in the way of audio too much. 
   
  The primary reason I am willing to believe in the PWD being good is the availability of apodizing filters. On paper, the PWD appears to have accounted for everything that could potentially affect DAC sound quality and is very configurable.
   
  But I have not heard one, so I could be completely full of s**t 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I doubt you've made a mistake.  I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the W4S 2 will outperform the PWD hooked up to the PWT.  I don't believe for a second that Apple makes a better music computer/platform.


----------



## khollister

On a more thread-centric note...
   
  Got the Svetlana 6H13C's today. What a trip - the package was wrapped in brown paper with a huge shipping label filled with Cyrillic writing. As a former cold warrior (worked for a government agency in East Berlin back when it was East Berlin), it is still amazing to me to order something via Ebay from the former Soviet Union. Unthinkable 30 years ago.
   
  Anyway - popped a pair in, let them warm up for a minute or so and took a listen. Now these are what I would call warm. Initially pretty dead up top, but they are opening up a little so I'll leave them to play this evening. Very quiet - no weird noises or microphonics. Look to be very nicely constructed tubes - none of that quaint soviet industrial ambience (made with a hammer and machine tools captured from the Germans in 1944).
   
  For the chap looking to tame the treble for his T1's - get some of these to try. So far they are not the most resolving, but they are warm by anyone's definition. Cheap too - $24 for 4 plus shipping. Came packed in a block of styrofoam with no apparent damage.
   
  I'll update later tonight or later this week as I get a few hours on these.
   
  UPDATE: Things are improving quite a bit just as I listen while typing out this post. Either that or I'm just getting used to the sound. These things might sound pretty good with some silver IC's (which I normally can't stand). Interesting experiment. The WA2 definitely has the Marantz 8B vibe going now.


----------



## ardilla

Hey - sounds great. Didn't find any on ebay, though. But the http://www.siberian-shop.com/ got them.
   
  Anybody traded with them?
   
  There was a warning-thread here on head-fi, but that really didn't bother me. What bothered me was that when I went to check out, and clicked pay with paypal, paypal said that siberian-shop no longer could recieve transfers. One has got to use http://www.moneybookers.com insted - which I never used (or heard abot, really..) 

  
  Quote: 





khollister said:


> Got the Svetlana 6H13C's today. What a trip - the package was wrapped in brown paper with a huge shipping label filled with Cyrillic writing. As a former cold warrior (worked for a government agency in East Berlin back when it was East Berlin), it is still amazing to me to order something via Ebay from the former Soviet Union. Unthinkable 30 years ago.
> 
> Anyway - popped a pair in, let them warm up for a minute or so and took a listen. Now these are what I would call warm. Initially pretty dead up top, but they are opening up a little so I'll leave them to play this evening. Very quiet - no weird noises or microphonics. Look to be very nicely constructed tubes - none of that quaint soviet industrial ambience (made with a hammer and machine tools captured from the Germans in 1944).
> 
> ...


----------



## khollister

http://cgi.ebay.com/6N13S-6AS7G-ECC230-SVETLANA-BLACK-PLATE-Tubes-4pcs-/190490419929?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c5a1d22d9
   
  I probably led you astray by using the 6H13 number - these things use 6N13 and 6H13 interchangeably. The ad only has the 6N13 number (6H13 is actually printed on the tube).


----------



## ardilla

Thanks! Didn't find it because it din't say 6H13C in the ad - but I assume that 6N13S / 6AS7G /ECC230 SVETLANA is the same ) Anyway - I want the ones you got. Thanks khollister. Also I got some RCA 6AS7G on the way. Looking forward to killing the treble. A NOS DAC is waiting for me at the PO.


----------



## spagetka

Finally, 3 month after payment, I have just received an e-mail from Jack, that my WA5 will be shipped next week. Thank you very much for your comments here in this great forum and especially to takezo,sillysally and jamato8 for their insights which helped me a lot.


----------



## khollister

3 months?!!! There must have been a backorder on some WA5-specific parts. Jack is cranking out WA2/3/6's on a 2-3 week turnaround right now. Clearly can't be a labor issue.
  
  Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Finally, 3 month after payment, I have just received an e-mail from Jack, that my WA5 will be shipped next week. Thank you very much for your comments here in this great forum and especially to takezo,sillysally and jamato8 for their insights which helped me a lot.


----------



## Icenine2

He got the Prem Parts so maybe a wait for Blackgate?


----------



## spagetka

well, I don't care because I spent that time on collecting information about tubes... hope that it will arrive within 3 weeks
   
  Note that Jack do not offer the same PPU as it was listed earlier - check WA's web
   
  PPU WA5 now ($1100)

 V-Cap input coupling caps. Matched pair 0.15uf/600V
 Jensen voltage filtering caps, 220uf/450V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/160V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/16V
 Blackgate bypass (300B cathode) caps, 470uf/160V
 Jensen decoupling caps, 100u/500V
   
  PPU WA5 before ($1100)

 V-Cap input coupling caps. Matched pair 0.22uf/300V
 Jensen voltage filtering caps, 220uf/450V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/160V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/16V
 Blackgate bypass (300B cathode) caps, 470uf/160V
 Mills load resistors (300B), 750 ohms, 50W
 Mills load resistors (6SN7), 22 kohms, 12W
 Mills cathod resistors (6SN7), 7.5 kohms, 5W
 Kiwame cathod resistors (6SN7), 330 ohms, 2W
 Kiwame cathod resistors (300B), 330 kohms, 2W
 Jensen decoupling caps, 100u/500V


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Skylab

That is a drool- worthy shot, for sure!


----------



## emremusic

Hello friends,
   
  After listening to my ipod/cd player through my $99 Sony headphones for the last ten years, I've decided to step up and buy a better set of head phones. After some research, I found AKG 701s. Thinking I would need an amp, I started to look for amps in the $300 price range. 
   
  Since I'm the kind of person that likes to not keep upgrading/buying new stuff constantly, and live with what I buy forever, I will be purchasing the WA6SE with upgraded parts. 
   
  So thinking I was going to spend a $400-$600 investment, turned into a $2000!! I'm no way an audiophile, I just love listening to music, and I want a good music system for once in my life.
   
  I'll be jumping from my Sony headphones and ipod, right into AKG 701s and WA6SE, and I don't really know what I'm getting myself into. I've never heard it before! 
   
  So guys what am I getting myself into? I know this is a big jump, but this is the headphone/amp set up I want to live with. I think I've made a wise investment.


----------



## emremusic

Hello friends,

   

  After listening to my ipod/cd player through my $99 Sony headphones for the last ten years, I've decided to step up and buy a better set of head phones. After some research, I found AKG 701s. Thinking I would need an amp, I started to look for amps in the $300 price range. 

   

  Since I'm the kind of person that likes to not keep upgrading/buying new stuff constantly, and live with what I buy forever, I will be purchasing the WA6SE with upgraded parts. 

   

  So thinking I was going to spend a $400-$600 investment, turned into a $2000!! I'm no way an audiophile, I just love listening to music, and I want a good music system for once in my life.

   

  I'll be jumping from my Sony headphones and ipod, right into AKG 701s and WA6SE, and I don't really know what I'm getting myself into. I will not be rolling amps (I will get the Sophia though), and I will Not be selling it to upgrade or anything like that...I just want to listen to my music collection and enjoy all it's nuances and subtleties for years to come. 

   

  So guys what am I getting myself into? I know this is a big jump, but this is The headphone/amp set up I want to live with. I think I've made a wise investment.


----------



## emremusic

edited my post


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> After listening to my ipod/cd player through my $99 Sony headphones for the last ten years, I've decided to step up and buy a better set of head phones. After some research, I found AKG 701s. Thinking I would need an amp, I started to look for amps in the $300 price range.
> 
> ...


 

  
  I am sure you will love the WA6SE but as far as headphones go it all depends on what type of music you like. The 701's have a large sound-stage, fairly good dynamic range but they also have Sibilance and the bass is a little lacking.You may want to look at the not yet released HE-6A by head direct (Hifiman).


----------



## emremusic

> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I will be listening to acoustic music mainly. 80% jazz, 20% classical. I wanted to avoid unrealistic bass.


----------



## sillysally

Same here, don't care for unrealistic bass..


----------



## Golfnutz

[size=10pt]Finally, ordered my WA22 second week of November, and it has showed up today. Delivery date was delayed partially because of Jack and some of it was because of me (was travelling and wanted to be here when it was delivered) . Currently, it's burning in the stock tubes.  I did a short listen and out of the box it sounded pretty decent. Similar to everyone else, I really need to thank the community here for being so helpful and willing to share what they know. [/size]


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> [size=10pt]Finally, ordered my WA22 second week of November, and it has showed up today. Delivery date was delayed partially because of Jack and some of it was because of me (was travelling and wanted to be here when it was delivered) . Currently, it's burning in the stock tubes.  I did a short listen and out of the box it sounded pretty decent. Similar to everyone else, I really need to thank the community here for being so helpful and willing to share what they know. [/size]


 

 Glad to hear you got your WA22.  What headphones are you using?


----------



## Golfnutz

HD800 - with Cardas balanced. Was just listening to some Pink Floyd. I cannot believe anyone would think the 800's are lacking bass. The sound is very good out of the box - so much so I cannot imagine swapping tubes would help that much - it sounds that good already!  Totally blown away in the first two hours of listening (stock tubes too). And it's only going to get better - wow.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> HD800 - with Cardas balanced. Was just listening to some Pink Floyd. I cannot believe anyone would think the 800's are lacking bass. The sound is very good out of the box - so much so I cannot imagine swapping tubes would help that much - it sounds that good already!  Totally blown away in the first two hours of listening (stock tubes too). And it's only going to get better - wow.


 

 Give the amp at least a week or two for it and the stock tubes to break in.  It only gets better.
   
  I know what you are saying about the HD800.  I don't know where that bass thing comes from.  Maybe the people that were writing those reviewes had equipment that could only reach so far.
   
  At some point, you might want to try different tubes, there are some great posts on this thread about tubes that are available.
   
  What is your DAC and music source?


----------



## Icenine2

First breath through your nose slowly and then exhale like a whistle slowly.  Repeat.  Many of us go through some form of buyers-remorse-what-the-heck-have-I-done syndrome.  It will pass.  It's like when you buy that first fast car.  You loved it in the magazine and showroom and for the test drive.  Driving out you think "I don't need this car and what did I spend!?!?!?!"  Then you push the pedal to the floor and it all passes...........
  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 At this point nothing.....
   
  I'm using my HT system (Anthem D1/Oppo BDP-83) to break-in the Amp.
   
  I will probably just buy the BDP-95 in February (since I only listen to CD's and will be able to use it to Stream .Wav files from my NAS). I'm hoping someone will have both the W4S DAC-2 + BDP-95, and can tell me if they honestly hear any difference running the BDP-95 standalone vs. through the DAC.  I think the longer i wait for a DAC the better, as they are really starting to get better each time a new one comes out. 
   
  I'll take your advice and wait at least two weeks before I start rolling tubes.
   
  Currently, I have some GEC 6AS7G, Tung Sol 6SN7RP BG, EML 5U4G (from Jack), along with some Tung Sol 5988, Sylvania 7236. I wouldn't have any of them if it wasn't for this tread (and the WA22 tube rolling thread).
   
  So far, I couldn't be more happier about this setup.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> ..................You may want to look at the not yet released HE-6A by head direct (Hifiman).


 

 Dear mr *sillysally - *Tell us about the HE-6A!!  How is supposed to be different to the HE-6?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 From your tube inventory, you definately have it going on.  Do you mind if I ask your source for your GEC 6AS7G?  I am looking for a pair, and can't find them anywhere.
   
  There are some W4S users here and they can talk to you more about that DAC.  They really like it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> After listening to my ipod/cd player through my $99 Sony headphones for the last ten years, I've decided to step up and buy a better set of head phones. After some research, I found AKG 701s. Thinking I would need an amp, I started to look for amps in the $300 price range.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm a WA6/K701 user, and a happy one at that.  I think the WA6SE is well suited to powering the K701, more so than my WA6 since the K701 loves power.  If by rolling amps you meant rolling tubes then I would urge you to reconsider that part.  A lot of the amps potential can be left on the table by not exploring these options, and the cost is quite minimal since 6DE7, 6FD7 and 6EW7 tubes are very cheap.  I would suggest you skip the Sophia Princess and instead purchase a NOS Tung Sol or Sylvania 5U4G for $30-50 and use the rest of the money saved by skipping the princess to pick up a few pairs of 6FD7 and 6EW7 of different brands to find out which combination sounds best to your ears.  The tubes Jack sends as stock might be to your liking, but then again they might not because what he sends is random and there is a lot of variation in sound between tube brands.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 

 Congrats.  That is a great photo.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well you will have to wait a little longer on any comparisons, because the Oppo 95's release has been postponed at-least till March.
   
  As I have been saying the Sabre 9018/16 Dac solution is very difficult to incorporate into a audio board/processor.
   
  btw, I also agree the HD-800s with the Cardas cable has very nice bass.
   


  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Platapuss13

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> First breath through your nose slowly and then exhale like a whistle slowly.  Repeat.  Many of us go through some form of buyers-remorse-what-the-heck-have-I-done syndrome.  It will pass.  It's like when you buy that first fast car.  You loved it in the magazine and showroom and for the test drive.  Driving out you think "I don't need this car and what did I spend!?!?!?!"  Then you push the pedal to the floor and it all passes...........
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  ^ Thats a good way to put it. Hard to explain but thats exactly how I felt jumping into this


----------



## Golfnutz

SS, Thanks for the heads-up. I just logged into their website and saw the update. I didn't realize they updated the pricing either.


----------



## stufaro

Just received my WA2 installed and hooked up been listening about an hour now and it seems that relative to what others are stating the volume knob is at (10-12o'clock) I need to have the volume at almost 2-3o'clock to get a decent bit of volume, I could easily turn the unit to 5:30 and it would not be "ear splitting" or likely could turn to max volume and it not be unbearable is this something that will change with break in? I dont see how the volume is this low. 
   
  If so someone holla back at me as this is my first headphone amp and I am not educated on this. Source is turntable with tube preamp/phono stage into WA2.
   
  Seems like this might be an issue with the unit as everyone else states that past 12'oclock is ear splitting.


----------



## Skylab

What are your headphones, and what is your source?


----------



## baka1969

Thanks to Frank I and Skylab I have ordered a matched pair of 6FD7 fat bottles and matched pair of 6DE7 to go with the 6WE7 my WA6SE came with. I also picked up a USA Sylvania 5U4G rectifier. So the tube rolling will now begin. LoL

 I really like what I'm hearing from this amp. I have my B22 out for some upgrades and pimping so I will do some extensive A/B testing between the both. Yeah I know it may seem like an apples and oranges comparison but I think that why not see how two great amps stack up to each other? Right?

 The WA6SE seems to be an excellent pairing with the HD800. The meet we has this past Saturday, everyone that listened to them together really enjoyed what they heard. Jack sent down the 6SE to me specifically for the meet and it never made it back to him. I just couldn't bare to part with it. So I sent him payment in return. LoL

 I think they have done well with all genres so far. I'm listening to the Lateralus album from Tool now and it's keeping up nicely. Jazz is a no brainer. Classical is a must with the HD800/WA6SE. I have several renditions of the complete Mozart Violin Sonatas. Itzhak Perlman's interpretation playing with Daniel Barenboim is my favorite. The Woo brings a realism to the music that is intoxicating. Try Sonata 454 and you know what I mean.

 I'll see what tube rolling will do. Wish me luck. Lmao


----------



## Golfnutz

Thought I'd make sure some of these tubes worked, before waiting a couple of weeks and finding out if they were good or not. I'll probably take them out tomorrow and continue burning the Amp in with the stock tubes.


----------



## stufaro

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What are your headphones, and what is your source?


 


  Source is vinyl turntable with a pre-amp phono stage. RS1i's are the headphones.


----------



## Skylab

Well, the RS1i is not an ideal match electrically for the WA2, but they are pretty efficient headphones, so that should not be the issue.  My guess is that your phono preamp is not putting out much voltage.  Do you have another source you can try?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Thought I'd make sure some of these tubes worked, before waiting a couple of weeks and finding out if they were good or not. I'll probably take them out tomorrow and continue burning the Amp in with the stock tubes.


 

 I've got black too.


----------



## Platapuss13

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> Just received my WA2 installed and hooked up been listening about an hour now and it seems that relative to what others are stating the volume knob is at (10-12o'clock) I need to have the volume at almost 2-3o'clock to get a decent bit of volume, I could easily turn the unit to 5:30 and it would not be "ear splitting" or likely could turn to max volume and it not be unbearable is this something that will change with break in? I dont see how the volume is this low.
> 
> If so someone holla back at me as this is my first headphone amp and I am not educated on this. Source is turntable with tube preamp/phono stage into WA2.
> 
> Seems like this might be an issue with the unit as everyone else states that past 12'oclock is ear splitting.


 

 Same happened with my Wa3 and dt990/600. Volume had to be put almost all the way for an acceptable volume, which had me concerned. It broke in rather quickly and less turn of the knob was necessary. It still takes more turn than the HD650s though. However, it will get loud.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> Thanks to Frank I and Skylab I have ordered a matched pair of 6FD7 fat bottles and matched pair of 6DE7 to go with the 6WE7 my WA6SE came with. I also picked up a USA Sylvania 5U4G rectifier. So the tube rolling will now begin. LoL
> 
> I really like what I'm hearing from this amp. I have my B22 out for some upgrades and pimping so I will do some extensive A/B testing between the both. Yeah I know it may seem like an apples and oranges comparison but I think that why not see how two great amps stack up to each other? Right?
> 
> ...


 

 LoL...welcome to the "tube-side" buddy.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, the RS1i is not an ideal match electrically for the WA2, but they are pretty efficient headphones, so that should not be the issue.  My guess is that your phono preamp is not putting out much voltage.  Do you have another source you can try?


 


  I absolutely agree with Rob. The WA2 paired with my RS1i headphones NEVER go past 9 o'clock....otherwise my ears would bleed.


----------



## dminches

Ross, aren't you glad I didn't leave Frank's with the WA6SE?  I knew you had your eye on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by dminches 

 "Ross, aren't you glad I didn't leave Frank's with the WA6SE?  I knew you had your eye on it ."


 Dave, I'm sure Jack is still willing to set you up with a shiny new Woo.


----------



## stufaro

Unfortunately I don't have another source to try, emailed Jack about this he stated breaking it in will not effect volume. Suppose I should find another source or change inputs to test it. He stated it should not be an issue so seems like this issue is spinning in place at the moment kind of unsettling.

Normal listening volume currently is about 3 o'clock and I could turn to max volume and not hurt my ears .... Something is not right. Will tubes effect this?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> Unfortunately I don't have another source to try, emailed Jack about this he stated breaking it in will not effect volume. Suppose I should find another source or change inputs to test it. He stated it should not be an issue so seems like this issue is spinning in place at the moment kind of unsettling.
> 
> Normal listening volume currently is about 3 o'clock and I could turn to max volume and not hurt my ears .... Something is not right. Will tubes effect this?


 

 Could be the tubes, but also source might not be putting enough voltage into your amp as Rob mentioned. I just plugged in my RS1s into my WA2 and I CANNOT exceed 10 o'clock. It would blow my Grados and ear drums.
   
  Gotta say, that the OTL WA2 handles Grados very well. I like it better with my RS1s than my Concerto. But the MAD Ear+HD is still tops for me with Grado!


----------



## Skylab

It seems unlikely that it would be the tubes, since BOTH of either the input tubes or power tubes would have o be bad, and in equal measure. Very unlikely.

Do you not even have an iPod, or even laptop output, you could try?


----------



## stufaro

macedonianhero said:


> Could be the tubes, but also source might not be putting enough voltage into your amp as Rob mentioned. I just plugged in my RS1s into my WA2 and I CANNOT exceed 10 o'clock. It would blow my Grados and ear drums.
> 
> Gotta say, that the OTL WA2 handles Grados very well. I like it better with my RS1s than my Concerto. But the MAD Ear+HD is still tops for me with Grado!





 
I could change the preamp/phono stage to MC and get 20 db extra gain but I don't know how this will effect sound since my cartridge is rated for 47k and changing that would be moving it to 100k, this might not work, I suppose I can just listen at 3 o'clock.. But seems like that is just sidestepping the problem. The output of the phono stage currently is plenty enough to drive the amp according to Jacks #'s


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> SS, Thanks for the heads-up. I just logged into their website and saw the update. I didn't realize they updated the pricing either.


 

 If you want you can go over to AVS Oppo BD-95 thread, some of the folks that got there name on the early release program are not buying and have posted there link for buying a BD-95. You may be able to snag one of these links, however Oppo is sold out but there is one post that said they kept trying and did get Oppo to accept the order.
   
  Anyway my BD-95 will be shipping between the 1st and 4th of February so i will post my opinion about this player.


----------



## stufaro

So found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





platapuss13 said:


> Same happened with my Wa3 and dt990/600. Volume had to be put almost all the way for an acceptable volume, which had me concerned. It broke in rather quickly and less turn of the knob was necessary. It still takes more turn than the HD650s though. However, it will get loud.


 
  I can't pass 10pm with my WA3, listening to classical music with the HD650...I can't believe you have to pass 12pm :-O


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> So found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.


 
   
  What is your phono preamp? If you have a speaker setup, you must have a preamp with a volume control right? I'm missing what exactly your setup is - can you give us a run down on your equipment and how it is connected both for the Woo and your speaker setup?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, TheAudioDude: Happy Anniversary on your "slip on the ice with beer" escapade last year. I hope that your finger has healed up very well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And once again, please look out for black ice. I hear it's still cold and icy where you are.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> ASo found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.


 


   Macedonian hero and Skylab are correct and as you tested the probelm is that your input source provides a very low voltage. I can simulate the same issue if I drive my amplifier out of my iPod dock connector to the amplifier input compared to out of my DAC. The iPod has a lot lower voltage so I have to crank the volume up in the amp to reach the same level.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Right.  There really isn't anything you can do about it unless the phono preamp has a higher gain setting (not impedance - gain).  Some are pretty configurable in that regard.  But failing that, as long as you can make the volume loud enough by turning it up, and since you know the Woo is not defective, why worry?


----------



## stufaro

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Skylab you are right, at this point I'm no longer worried as the WA2 clearly not the issue. I was just concerned that listening to the amp with the volume at say 3 or 4 o'clock was not good for the unit but I seems thats not the case.  
   
  @khollister My phonostage acts as my pre-amp for my speaker setup but it does not have volume control but rather fixed output settings, the presets are marked:
   
  MM 47kΩ
  MC 100Ω
  MC 220Ω
  MC 1kΩ
   
  The setting I have selected is MM47kΩ, since this is what my cartridge (Goldring Eroica H) is rated for, but I have changed it to MC100Ω and it solves the volume level issue and once again I cannot turn much past 12o'clock.
   
  If anyone knows if its ok to leave the phonostage on this setting let me know. I can hear no sonic differences between either setting on the phonostage only more db gain.
   
  Just to note I am not trying to blow my ears off here, and I don't listen at deafening volumes just want to be able to have more juice in the tank since currently I can turn to max volume and its not super loud seems like that should not be the case.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, TheAudioDude: Happy Anniversary on your "slip on the ice with beer" escapade last year. I hope that your finger has healed up very well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Haha thanks, Clayton!  I woke up today and was amazed it was a whole year since the accident.  You can barely tell anything happened to my finger now and I have probably 75% of my movement back.


----------



## Skylab

@ Stufaro:
   
  Well, it sounds like your phono pre changes gain AND impedance simultaneously.  That isn't ideal.  The Eroica is a relatively high-output moving coil, but it still musters just 2.5 mv, versus the 4-5 mv you get from a MM cartridge.  So you need more than the lowest gain setting, which your phono pre assigns to 47KOhm.  That is OK for MM's, but not really for your Eroica. 
   
  But 100 ohms is almost certainly too low an input impedance for the Eroica.  I'm surprised it doesn't sound dark and slow.  Is there enough gain at the "MC 1KOhm" setting?


----------



## kuben

Hi what should i choose, WA22 with no upgrades or WA6-SE with all upgrades? Headphones are not ballanced and i wont use WA22 as preamp.
  Which one would be better SQ wise? Headphones are HD800's.


----------



## stufaro

Quote: 





skylab said:


> @ Stufaro:
> 
> Well, it sounds like your phono pre changes gain AND impedance simultaneously.  That isn't ideal.  The Eroica is a relatively high-output moving coil, but it still musters just 2.5 mv, versus the 4-5 mv you get from a MM cartridge.  So you need more than the lowest gain setting, which your phono pre assigns to 47KOhm.  That is OK for MM's, but not really for your Eroica.
> 
> But 100 ohms is almost certainly too low an input impedance for the Eroica.  I'm surprised it doesn't sound dark and slow.  Is there enough gain at the "MC 1KOhm" setting?


 


  I have not tried that setting, once I get home I will try that one. I am not familiar with these settings too much as you can tell, if the gain is sufficient is that a setting I should stick with? I have A/Bed only the 47k MM and the 100MC setting and there is a slight difference and I would say its not as bright but its very minor. Vocals are not as clear. Anyone know another phono preamp I might want to look into getting I have had the Pro-ject tubebox for over 5-6 years it might be time for an upgrade if its not ideal for my new headphone amp as I am in love with the WA2 and its a keeper.


----------



## Skylab

At the end of the day, if it sounds good, it IS good.  So if you end up happy with the sound, then you are OK.  For sure there are better sounding phono preamps than the ProJect IMHO, but of course, they cost more money


----------



## khollister

It appears you have a number of fixed settings that both change the in put impedance as well as set the gain for either moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC). The MC100 setting is louder due to adding more gain necessary for a low output moving coil cartridge. Skylab is suggesting the MC10k setting which might have similar gain as the MC100, but a higher input impedance which wouldn't load the cartridge as much (which usually significantly changes the sound).
   
  Of course, if you like the sound ...
   
  I don't run vinyl anymore, so I'm not current on preamps. 
  
  Quote: 





stufaro said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jerico

Has anyone noticed "resonance" on their amp, like when touching the sides (or the tubes)?  I initially found my 22 to be very quiet, but recently it's been noisier (unless I never really noticed it before).  If I tap the sides or top, I can hear the taps much more clearly than I recall initially.  My power tubes are also pretty loud when tapping them (various ones).  I tried changing tubes around (all of them) to see if it was a tube going excessively microphonic, but it doesn't look like faulty tubes.
   
  Is this "normal" for these amps (my speaker amps - also tubed - are very quiet, both when tapping the chassis and the tubes)?


----------



## Icenine2

J,
   
  I tried that about a month ago: chassis and then tubes individually.  I didn't notice anything at the time.


----------



## jerico

It is pretty weird. My volume pot is bait scratchy when I turn it - and the other night, I reached over to twist the volume and noticed a "brushy hum" as my hand reached across the amp (I was kind of laying down with the amp next to me, so had to reach across it to turn the volume). Ever since then, Ive been more aware of it being a bit noisier when touched.

I don't make a habit out of tapping the tubes of course, but still...!


----------



## stufaro

Quote: 





skylab said:


> At the end of the day, if it sounds good, it IS good.  So if you end up happy with the sound, then you are OK.  For sure there are better sounding phono preamps than the ProJect IMHO, but of course, they cost more money


 

  
  Right on there *Skylab*. But seems silly that my phono stage connects fixed gain to MC cartridges and MM cartridges regardless of impedance, this all makes sense now I am a fast learner when someone breaks it down for me; thanks for the great information guys.
   
  I might look to replace the phono stage for something that matches my cartridge *and* offers more gain. Dont feel I should have to sac. one for the other. This will fix everything the right way.  I love the sound on the 47k settingbut have not spend enough time to really A/B the settings on the stage which I will do.  Only spend a few hours with the amp so this is all sort of pre-mature just wanted to get to the volume mystery solved and I have so I can let this all rest and get down to breaking in the amp.


----------



## Icenine2

New PS Power Plants just came out:
   
http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/description/perfectwave-power-plant-5?cat=power


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> New PS Power Plants just came out:
> 
> http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/description/perfectwave-power-plant-5?cat=power


 


  Yeah - at double the price of what I got my Premier for. I'm happy with what I have.
   
  On a completely different subject, I have canceled my W4S DAC-2 order. As the wait drug on, I started to get cold feet and simultaneously got more confident in the new Rega DAC as impressions started to roll in. I was a very satisfied Rega turntable and CDP owner in the past, and feel like I have a better feel for what to expect. Plus I can return it to AA if I hate it. It will be here tomorrow (Sat) in silver, to match the WA2 (Woo content alert!), Mac Mini and Power Plant Premier. I have both wireworld USB and Lifatec toslink cables to try as well as a cryo'd C5-IEC adapter so I can use my power cords.
   
  The W4S is more feature rich as far as connectivity (24/192 USB instead 16/48 USB being the big one), but all of the description of the Rega used adjectives like "musical", "smooth", turntable-like" and the W4S adjectives were "detailed", "extended", "transparent". Not that there is anything wrong with those qualities, but the contrast had me a little concerned. Every Rega discussion got around to PRaT, none of the DAC-2 ones did.


----------



## WooAudio

HI, All
   
Haven't checked in for a while. I hope everyone is well.
   
Many of you have asked tube compatibility questions. I think a reference is needed to cut down research time and stress. Here, we created a *Tube Compatible Chart*. I hope you find it helpful.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
   
If you like to add comments or want to add a new tube, please *submit a tube here*:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDQ2X18zUTRGc2JDazIyYnNMWnRnbkE6MQ
   
Happy tube-rolling,
Jack


----------



## musicman59

wooaudio said:


> HI, All
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 

Thanks Jack!
This is great and very helpful.
Jose.


----------



## jerico

Great stuff here, Jack.  Cheers!


----------



## baka1969

Thanks Jack! Just in time too.


----------



## Skylab

That is a work of art.  Thanks Jack!


----------



## Xcalibur255

An excellent contribution Jack. 
   
  It was interesting to see the 6DN7 listed under WA6, since Glenn and I had briefly discussed trying out that tube.  He told me the tube is basically half a 6DE7 and half a 6SN7 which in my mind would make it sound pretty much like the 6EW7 so I wasn't all that interested, but they are very cheap and not sought after so it might present an affordable alternative to the 6SN7 for some people.


----------



## Clayton SF

Great chart. Thanks Jack.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stufaro said:


> So found an old cd/DVD player hooked it up cant get the volume pass 12 noon cause it's too LOUD! With the turntable i can turn the wa2 to max and its not that loud. So.. Seems to be the phono stage. Not sure why since the output of my phono stage is pretty standard. Guess I have to live with the volume knob at 3 o clock. This cd has never sounded so good I can say that lol. Any body know what I can do to resolve this? New phono stage seems like a waste since the one I have works fine with my speaker setup.


 

 So there you go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Kudos to Rob on the quick and accurate diagnosis!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That is a work of art.  Thanks Jack!


 


  Exactly what I was looking for! Yet another reason I am on happy Woo customer!
   
  Thanks Jack!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Double post...sorry.


----------



## MacedonianHero

On another note, my NOS Tung-Sol 7236s are on the way from Woo Audio. Can't wait to give them a try!


----------



## Platapuss13

Helpful Jack.


----------



## oldwine

Thanks Jack!!! now we know how to explore the potential more!!!


----------



## Golfnutz

Does anyone have a recommendation for a middle of the road 5U4G rectifier tube (or compatible). Somewhere between the stock (Shuguang - $12) and upgraded (EML - $230) tube.  I don't think it would be wise to have a backup EML on hand, since it has a one year warranty and there seems to be some reliability issues (if my current one goes past a year, then the backup basically won't have a warranty).  However, I would like to have something on hand other then the Shuguang in case something happens to the EML. Thanks.


----------



## jax

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a middle of the road 5U4G rectifier tube (or compatible). Somewhere between the stock (Shuguang - $12) and upgraded (EML - $230) tube.  I don't think it would be wise to have a backup EML on hand, since it has a one year warranty and there seems to be some reliability issues (if my current one goes past a year, then the backup basically won't have a warranty).  However, I would like to have something on hand other then the Shuguang in case something happens to the EML. Thanks.


 
  A Mullard CV378 is quite good and falls right between those two in price.  The fat bottle version will go for the same price as the EML, and the High Wycombe is considered one of the best, but the narrow version is around $100 and is very good.  Here's Tube World's listings  These are military issue tubes, and should be fine in your circuit but double check with compatibility (GZ37).  I used the narrow version in my WA6SEm and it worked great there.   Another good mid-priced version is the Haltron.


----------



## Skylab

A NOS TungSol 5U4G should do very well, and shouldn't cost more than about $50.


----------



## Icenine2

You want to hear stereo music the old way.  Buy Living Stereo SACD/Dual Disc Grand Canyon Suite.  Sounds like it would be corny but no.  I grew up hearing this on my parents stereo. It is killer!  I read about it at the Hoffman site
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=240165&highlight=living+stereo+grand+canyon
   
  I bought it on Amazon for $13.  There's a ton of other Living Stereo releases too.


----------



## Icenine2

Interesting that Jack uses the WA22 as his Avatar.
  
  Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> HI, All
> 
> Haven't checked in for a while. I hope everyone is well.
> 
> ...


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Interesting that Jack uses the WA22 as his Avatar.


 
   
  well, trying to fit the WA5 into one image that small...   ha.  good luck!


----------



## Golfnutz

Thanks guys. Appreciate the feedback.


----------



## khollister

Added a long day 1 impression of the Rega DAC in my thread in the sources forum, but this thing is really starting to rock. I like it!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> HI, All
> 
> Haven't checked in for a while. I hope everyone is well.
> 
> ...


 

 Really nice, thanks Jack.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





thewuss said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good things come in small packages!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Anyone use the MultiWave function on their PPP while listening to their Woo?  I've never tried this function and wondering if it would provide any benefit while listening.


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Anyone use the MultiWave function on their PPP while listening to their Woo?  I've never tried this function and wondering if it would provide any benefit while listening.


 
  Yeah, I do. The effect is very subtle, but I think things get just a little more open and richer. Very, very slight though. I have yet to hear any affect from the Clean waveform, though.


----------



## sillysally

The PPP will have more of a impact on your source player and DAC than on your Woo, same goes for power cords.
  I would advise staying away from M/W and clean wave, anyway they have no effect on the Woo's AQ.


----------



## ardilla

My wife wouldn't agree that the WA22 is a "small package"  This forum tends to change some perspectives...
    
  Quote:


> *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> > > *Icenine2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

My wife on first site of the WA22 asked "where is that going to go?" which is wife-speak for "you'd better put that somewhere I don't see it".  After it was set up she stated "that thing looks like a science experiment".  We all know what that means in wife-speak.  Had this been in my college/single days I would have taken that as a badge of honor.   Single guys can ignore all of this.
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> My wife wouldn't agree that the WA22 is a "small package"  This forum tends to change some perspectives...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> My wife on first site of the WA22 asked "where is that going to go?" which is wife-speak for "you'd better put that somewhere I don't see it".  After it was set up she stated "that thing looks like a science experiment".  We all know what that means in wife-speak.  Had this been in my college/single days I would have taken that as a badge of honor.   Single guys can ignore all of this.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I hear you.  I keep mine in my home office (my man cave).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You guys are wuss, I keep mine's in the bedroom where it can be seen.


----------



## nututubes

*Finally, some Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boys to try out.*
   
  At least I think they are bad boys, based on my research on this forum, Audiogon and Audio Asylum.
   
  I purchased a Quad NOS matched set from eBay. I had them on my "watch list" for a while and wondered why no one grabbed them. (photo of ad below).
   
  I couldn't resist, so I bought them.

  When they arrived I tried to photograph them, showing some detail that is obscured by the bottom getter. I was unsuccessful. But I can confirm that they have the copper posts, The top mica has three small triangular edges bent down on each side. Date code is 152. 3 hole black T plates, bottom getter flashing 1/3 way up the tube.
   
  Here is a pic that I got while researching the subject (not mine), that shows the innards of a bad boy next to a regular GT.

  
  From what I can see with a bright flashlight, mine are exactly like the one in the photo on the left.
   
  Tonight, I will audition in my WA22!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> *Finally, some Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boys to try out.*
> 
> At least I think they are bad boys, based on my research on this forum, Audiogon and Audio Asylum.
> 
> ...


 

 Sweet, let me know how it is.  I always want to get a pair but never get around to it.


----------



## baka1969

I just received my matched pair of 6FD7 fat bottles, matched RCA 6DE7 and the Sylvania 5U4G rectifier for my WA6SE. The 6FD7 had a hum (if you're familiar with the chord that plays during the first few minutes on the song Shine On You Crazy Diamond you'll know how it sounded) plus it had a very high noise floor. This was with the music off and the amp on. I called and got a refund. The 6DE7 with the new rectifier sounds nice so far and has no hum and is very quiet. The bass is punchier compared to the Raytheon 6EW7 that came with the amp. There seems to be a slight sibilance I didn't get before but I'll reserve judgment until they have more hours on them.


----------



## Icenine2

You'll have to un-wuss me.  Mine is in the bedroom in full view as well.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> You'll have to un-wuss me.  Mine is in the bedroom in full view as well.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 That is only because your wife wants you to believe you have won something.


----------



## Icenine2

I was actually thinking it was more on a pity level.  Our "group" here is not dissimilar to Paul Rudd in "Knocked up" when he get's busted by his wife while meeting w/the dream league guys.


----------



## Golfnutz

@jc9394 - John, how do you compare the Tung Sol 6SN7 BGRP to the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z. I'm asking because a new pair is cheaper then a good used set of Tung Sol now. I'm assuming you have the Treasures based on one of your previous avatars. Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Here is a pic that I got while researching the subject (not mine), that shows the innards of a bad boy next to a regular GT.
> 
> 
> From what I can see with a bright flashlight, mine are exactly like the one in the photo on the left.
> ...


 

 Remarkable. I've never thought of breaking one of mine open. Perhaps when one expires I will. Then I'll give it to my friend and tell her its a broach and to wear it on her blouse. Or maybe in her hair. (Lady Gaga earrings?)


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> *Finally, some Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boys to try out.*
> 
> At least I think they are bad boys, based on my research on this forum, Audiogon and Audio Asylum.
> 
> ...


 


  Very nice research work.  You've removed the last 2% of doubt I had about true Bad Boys only being made in 52.  That always felt fishy to me and simply didn't make sense.  I have 51's like you only mine are the military version where as it appears you got the private label version.  It seems that aside from the 3-hole per plate distinction the best indicator for telling bad boys apart from other Sylvania green label tubes of the period are the tabs on the edges of the top mica. 
   
  They're a beautiful sounding tube and I hope you like yours.


----------



## jc9394

golfnutz said:


> @jc9394 - John, how do you compare the Tung Sol 6SN7 BGRP to the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z. I'm asking because a new pair is cheaper then a good used set of Tung Sol now. I'm assuming you have the Treasures based on one of your previous avatars. Thanks.





 


They are very different sound signature, the Treasures are brighter while the TS are much smoother. I prefer the Treasures with LCD-2 and D7000 while the TS with HD800. If you are looking for a very nice tubes without breakunthe bank, take a look at the Brimar CV1988. It is at least 90% of the TS BGRP, it was my second flavor until I got the Treasures.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I keep hearing good things (and bad things also, mostly from people who hate new production tubes in general) about the Full Music 6SN7, but I can't try them myself because of their ST shaped glass.  They won't fit along side the EML 274B in a WA6.  Jack says the Treasures do and these are the same size, but I've done the math and I just don't see how.  The Sylvania bad boys, which are slightly taller bottle than tubes like the TSRP, basically touch the EML because of the height of the adapters so a tube with a wider glass diameter wouldn't allow the tube to sit in the socket evenly due to lack of clearance.


----------



## SteveFord

After may years of wanting one I finally got a WooAudio 6 which is hooked up to a Sherwood S3000-III tube tuner. 
  With a set of Beyerdynamic DT880s I'm a happy man!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> My wife on first site of the WA22 asked "where is that going to go?" which is wife-speak for "you'd better put that somewhere I don't see it".  After it was set up she stated "that thing looks like a science experiment".  We all know what that means in wife-speak.  Had this been in my college/single days I would have taken that as a badge of honor.   Single guys can ignore all of this.
> 
> 
> > >


 

 Remember one thing, out of sight out of mind.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They are very different sound signature, the Treasures are brighter while the TS are much smoother. I prefer the Treasures with LCD-2 and D7000 while the TS with HD800. If you are looking for a very nice tubes without breakunthe bank, take a look at the Brimar CV1988. It is at least 90% of the TS BGRP, it was my second flavor until I got the Treasures.


 

 I wanted to add some additional observations about the TSRP vs Treasures.  While I agree with JC the Treasures are brighter, they do not have as much detail as the TSRP.  Also I found the TSRP to have much deeper bass.  Finally, the TSRP to me were more holographic than the Treasurers and the instruments were much more present and solid.
   
  Hope you don't mind an additional perspective.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There is actually a fair amont of info on the Bad Boys out there, much of it conflicting I think. eBay is the most confusing...almost all Sylvania 6SN7s are bad boys if you believe the ads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Audio Assylum had what I thought was the most (best) info.
   
  I read on there that the 1951 Sylvania 7N7 was internally very very similar. I bought a couple pair of these 7N7 NOS, and have to admit they sound nearly identicle...*NO indenticle *to me for $45/pair too. I'm still happy to have both types though.


----------



## lukaskite

For all Wa 2 users i just posted my EZ80 rectifier impresions here:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/402215/the-woo-audio-2/510#post_7243933
   
  Hope it helps someone.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Agreed but the details are not that much of difference.  The soundstage has a bigger difference, especially on the depth.  At least on my setup.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Well I just bought a PSA P10 ... wallet shifts to weeping status ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Well I just bought a PSA P10 ... wallet shifts to weeping status ...


 


 Nice, wish I can say that.  I wants one but priority shifts for me, a nice gas range is more needed at this time.  Maybe next year...


----------



## dmac03

Has anyone had their wa22 (or any other woo amp) checked for DC offset? I am worried that if any DC offset is present then it may cut down on the life of my cans.
   
  I admittedly know little about this concept (other than wikipedia). How would I check for it?  Would different rectifiers have varying impacts?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 The 1951 Sylvania 7N7 is identicle to the Bad boys just in a 8pin Loctal base Just as the Tung-Sol 6F8G RP is identical to the Tung-Sol 6SN7 BGRP


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Not at all Mike, I thought that was the purpose of the Forum. I'm always appreciative of everyones input.
   
  Right now I'm liking the Sylvania 7236 and the EML 5U4G. I'd like to find something to match them, but after looking on the Internet for the Brimar CV1988, I found the prices to almost be on par with the TS. For me the goal is to find the best sound for the best price. Not the best sound, for the most expensive price.  I was hoping the Treasures would be the missing piece.


----------



## Golfnutz

Hey, maybe that's the missing piece (6F8G, forgot about these), instead of the 6SN7.  Has anyone tried the Sylvania 7236/TS 6F8G/EML 5U4G on their WA22?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 7N7 - not on Woo Audio Tube Compatibility Chart....should they be?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Hey, maybe that's the missing piece (6F8G, forgot about these), instead of the 6SN7.  Has anyone tried the Sylvania 7236/TS 6F8G/EML 5U4G on their WA22?


 

 It is a very very good driver tubes, I absolutely love mines.  I personally think this is as close to TS BGRP as you can get without paying an arm for it.  I have been testing GEC 6080, TS 6F8G/TS BGRP/Treasures/Barimar, and EML 5U4G/274B and found almost not sonic difference between TS 6F8G and TS BGRP.  The most noticable difference is the soundstage, for some reason the TS BGRP has more depth than 6F8G.
   
  Brimar CV1988 should be around $200/pair if ever pops up on fleabay.  IMHO, the Treasure and 6F8G are the best bang for buck.  You can find both under $200/pair on fleabay.  If you get the 6F8G, PM 2359Glenn to make you an adapter and tell him it is for WA22, his adapter is much better than the other one I see.


----------



## jc9394

Tubes expects' help needed.  Can you please tell me the gain of the following power tubes?  I'm looking for the best combo for LCD-2 on my WA22.
   
  7236
  5998
  6080
  6AS7G
   
  TIA


----------



## 2359glenn

Thay should be a 7N7 is a loctal 6SN7 all specs the same Except the internal capacitance is lower du to the  shorter leads in the loctal base.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Tubes expects' help needed.  Can you please tell me the gain of the following power tubes?  I'm looking for the best combo for LCD-2 on my WA22.
> 
> 7236
> 5998
> ...


 


 7236 = gain 4.8
  5998 = gain 5.4
  6080=  gain 2
  6AS7 = gain 2


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   Thanks, no wonder the TS5998 sounds much better with LCD-2 than GEC 6080.  The GEC 6080 does sound very well but it seems like missing something.


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Has anyone had their wa22 (or any other woo amp) checked for DC offset? I am worried that if any DC offset is present then it may cut down on the life of my cans.
> 
> I admittedly know little about this concept (other than wikipedia). How would I check for it?  Would different rectifiers have varying impacts?


 

 Since the WA22 has an output transformer it will not pass DC, so no worries on damaging your phones.
   
  Tube preamps often do have some DC offset present, though when used with a transformer coupled tube amp this is typically a non-issue.
   
  Where the problem occurs is when one tries to use said tube preamp with a solid state (Direct Coupled) amplifier, DC can then be passed on to the speaker or headphones if the amp's protection circuitry does not stop it in time or at all. That can really ruin your day!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Finally understand what the HA5000 DC coupled and AC coupled input are for.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Hi Glenn, thanks for the info and the adapters that you sold me. I have both of your 6SN7/6F8G and 6SN/7N7 adapters. Great products!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Hi Glenn, thanks for the info and the adapters that you sold me. I have both of your 6SN7/6F8G and 6SN/7N7 adapters. Great products!


 
  X2 - Yes, Glenn--thank you very much. I also have your RK-60 to 5U4 adapter. Excellent workmanship. Great bass punch that RK-60 has.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Hey, maybe that's the missing piece (6F8G, forgot about these), instead of the 6SN7.  Has anyone tried the Sylvania 7236/TS 6F8G/EML 5U4G on their WA22?


 


 I have used that exact combination and I liked it very much. I have collected some nice NOS power and driver tubes...they all sound great with the EML 5U4G mesh. Right now, I prefer the Sylvania 7236 over GEC 6080 or GEC 6AS7G (due to low power, not because of poor sound). I tried TS 5998, but they seemed uneven and noisy (maybe got a defective pair).
   
  I also am leaning toward Sylvania 6SN7/7N7 for drivers. I've used the Treasures, TS BGRP, TS 6F8G and like them also. I have not auditioned all my NOS tubes enough to "settle" on any one combination. I'm still new to this, but enjoying the experience nonetheless.


----------



## dmac03

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Since the WA22 has an output transformer it will not pass DC, so no worries on damaging your phones.
> 
> Tube preamps often do have some DC offset present, though when used with a transformer coupled tube amp this is typically a non-issue.
> 
> Where the problem occurs is when one tries to use said tube preamp with a solid state (Direct Coupled) amplifier, DC can then be passed on to the speaker or headphones if the amp's protection circuitry does not stop it in time or at all. That can really ruin your day!


 

 Great, thanks for the response.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Please tell me your opinion of the Sylvania 6SN7's. I also have the GEC 6AS7G/TS BGRP/EML 5U4G mesh, and think I prefer the bigger gain of the 7236. Although the GEC and TS really do smooth out the music - a very engaging sound (I can see why some listener's fall asleep - done it myself). Again, finding it very difficult to source any 6F8G's. Saw 1 pair on ebay for $300.


----------



## baka1969

Is anyone familiar with the RCA 6DE7 for the WA6SE? I have about 15 hours on them and they're sibilant to me. I'm close to giving up on them. I just can't live with sibilance. I prefer the Raytheon 6EW7 it shipped with. I had a GE 6FD7 fat bottle pair that had a hum, so they're out.

 Has anyone else experienced the sibilance in the RCA 6DE7? Are there any alternatives to any of the above mentioned? Oh yeah, I have the USA Sylvania 5U4G rectifier just so to let iit all out there. Thanks.


----------



## nututubes

Quote:  





> Please tell me your opinion of the Sylvania 6SN7's. I also have the GEC 6AS7G/TS BGRP/EML 5U4G mesh, and think I prefer the bigger gain of the 7236. Although the GEC and TS really do smooth out the music - a very engaging sound (I can see why some listener's fall asleep - done it myself). Again, finding it very difficult to source any 6F8G's. Saw 1 pair on ebay for $300.


 
  I have only had the Sylvania 6sn7 for 2 days, so I need time to form an opinion. They sound great out of the box though.
   
  x2 on Sylvania 7236...I need the added gain also with my source. If I find another pair of NOS TS 5998 I will try them. The set I have are defective I think (noisy).
   
  I have found 2 pair of NOS TS 6F8G on ebay during the last two months. Each pair was around $200. Keep looking!


----------



## Torero

WA22 Vs WA5LE. Does anyone have any experience? I would like to change my old wa6 to a better.


----------



## musicman59

I listened to both at the last CanJam. Originally I was interested in the WA22 since my systems are balanced including my SS headphones amp and headphones. I took my own recalled balanced T1 with me to try it but when I tried the WA5-LE (with SE adapter) it just blew me away.
  Jack confirmed to me that even being single ended the WA5-LE is a better amplifier. I was so immersed that I ordered one 2 weeks later.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> Is anyone familiar with the RCA 6DE7 for the WA6SE? I have about 15 hours on them and they're sibilant to me. I'm close to giving up on them. I just can't live with sibilance. I prefer the Raytheon 6EW7 it shipped with. I had a GE 6FD7 fat bottle pair that had a hum, so they're out.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced the sibilance in the RCA 6DE7? Are there any alternatives to any of the above mentioned? Oh yeah, I have the USA Sylvania 5U4G rectifier just so to let iit all out there. Thanks.


 


  Fifteen hours isn't really enough time to make a final judgement.  If the tubes are actually NOS it could take considerably longer for them to settle and burn-in. 
   
  Aside from that, vintage and construction matters somewhat on these RCA tubes.  The older tubes sound better, but not as punchy.  Starting from about the mid 60's onward they can be sibilant but have better drive comapred to the old versions.  If your tubes do not have a shield divider plate between the two triode sections then I would find a pair that does if you otherwise like their sound.  The ones with the shield sound better all around from my experience.  Which rectifier they are paired with makes a difference too.  RCA tubes really seem to like RCA rectifiers based on all the rolling I have done.  The 6EW7 has the more laid back treble in general compared to the 6DE7 in my opinion so if the sibilance is really bothering you a shift towards that tube type might be best.  Sibilance ruins the music for me too so I definitely can sympathize.


----------



## baka1969

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## baka1969

@Xcalibur255


I am a complete tube noob so I know very little. All I could do is take a picture of the tube "profile" and hope that helps. Thanks


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Have you tried the National Union 6F8G RP thay might just sound better than the TS 6F8g or the TS BGRP and you can get them for under $100


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Have you tried the National Union 6F8G RP thay might just sound better than the TS 6F8g or the TS BGRP and you can get them for under $100





 


No, still looking for it. It rarely shows up.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> @Xcalibur255
> 
> 
> I am a complete tube noob so I know very little. All I could do is take a picture of the tube "profile" and hope that helps. Thanks


 


  Yours has the shield, which is good.  They are not an early vintage though.  If there is still an RCA logo printed on them the type of print can give you an idea.  If it is orange and rubs off easily that is good, it would place it in the 60's.  Any other color or if the printing feels solid and doesn't rub off is a bad thing and indicates a 70's era or newer tube which sounds less refined.  Of course all of this can be categorized as nitpicking, the differences are often pretty subtle in terms of sound.  I think the best thing right now is to leave your amp on for a few hours before each listening session to burn them in faster and see if the treble settles down.  If you don't hear any changes in their sound after another week or so then I would try different tubes or try a different rectifier with the RCAs.  I have had pretty dramatic changes in sound from the same output tubes depending upon the rectifier used.  My grey glass 6SN7GT sound harsh and zippy when using an EML 274B, and they sounds beautifully warm, smooth and laid back when using an RCA 5R4GY.  The EML coaxes vastly superior detail and control out of them, but the harshness makes it all for naught sadly. 
   
  Don't be afraid to experiment.


----------



## Torero

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I listened to both at the last CanJam. Originally I was interested in the WA22 since my systems are balanced including my SS headphones amp and headphones. I took my own recalled balanced T1 with me to try it but when I tried the WA5-LE (with SE adapter) it just blew me away.
> Jack confirmed to me that even being single ended the WA5-LE is a better amplifier. I was so immersed that I ordered one 2 weeks later.


 

 Please, explain me more.
 Why it did that you amazed so?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No, still looking for it. It rarely shows up.


 

 Here is one
http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-National-Union-NU-6F8G-Tube-E-H-Scott-Radio-/130480164250?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e61394d9a 
  
   There is more on E-Bay for little money


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I saw that but it is only for one, I prefer to get a matched pair.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





torero said:


> Please, explain me more.
> Why it did that you amazed so?
> 
> Thanks.


 


  You will have to listen to it. 
  I have never have heard my T1 sounding this good as with the WA5-LE. The sound is just naturally balanced. So far I have not run into any headphone that does not sound good wit the WA5-LE. It even has the power out of the high impedance out put to drive correctly and make sound beautiful the hard to drive HE-6.
   
  Compared to the WA22 the sound was fuller and you can tell that it had more control over the headphones which means more precise sound.
   
  Obviously all this is just my opinion based on my taste in music and sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Heck at that price you go and buy 4 and match them on a good tube tester Thats all the people selling them are doing then selling them for a $100 a pair


----------



## Icenine2

You could ask Dannie too.  He started this thread.  http://www.head-fi.org/user/dannie01 He's had a WA6SE, then a modded WA22 (jc owns that one now), and now a 5LE and he's modding that one too.

   
  A number of us have gone through this exact scenario of which to get.  I own the WA22 w/T1's.  It is a superb combination.
   
  What stopped me from getting the 5LE was 1) size: double chassis and I keep mine in bedroom where I work (trader) from home.  The 22 is already a bit large but works and it's right next to the computer where I play files out of.  Moving to a different part of the house means a Squeezebox Touch at my budget and more headaches.  2) tube cost.  300's are big expensive EML's are $650.  Add the 2X 5U4G's another $460 EML+treasures $200. 3) I couldn't get in my head not getting the parts upgrade $100+150 for sockets.  Jack told me the parts upgrade wasn't a trump of the stock amp but Mr. Audiophile living in my brain couldn't accept that but he's crazy!
   
  Some don't like the 300 sound.
   

  
  Quote: 





torero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Danny actually have both modded WA22 and stock WA5LE in his house at the same time.  Always wonder why his wife has not killed him yet.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  He did said, stock with his modded WA22 is very similiar.  He does not have the all the nice 300B light bulb for his WA5LE at the time.  I think he will change his mind now since he have modded his WA5LE and the sweet EAT 300B.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> You could ask Dannie too.  He started this thread.  http://www.head-fi.org/user/dannie01 He's had a WA6SE, then a modded WA22 (jc owns that one now), and now a 5LE and he's modding that one too.
> 
> 
> A number of us have gone through this exact scenario of which to get.  I own the WA22 w/T1's.  It is a superb combination.
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 If I have the tester, I will do that but I don't.  I may still pick this up and hope another one shows up.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 If you get them you can send them to me and I can match them on my Hickok 800a and send them back labeld .


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Glenn,
   
  Are you open to testing other tubes?  I got a pair of GEC 6AS7G's that have a spotted history and would like to know more about them.  Thanks.


----------



## Icenine2

Has anybody seen Artisan Silver Cables?  Here's the website link http://www.artisansilvercables.com/products.htm
   
  The USB looks really nice, it's silver and cheap.  Interconnects look nice too.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hello
  Shure Just pay me for watever the poastage is to send them back to you. It only takes a couple of minuits to test them. I will test them side to side and tube to tube sometimes
  each half of the same tube don't match.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, sending PM.


----------



## TheWuss

^  
  wow.  that's one cool cascade o' quotes.
  let's go for a head-fi record!


----------



## Silent One

_The Horror!  _
   
  This hobby can make once sound men, sound silly and seem senseless. The last few months I had been saving up for new tubes. I have other upgrades in the works, so I decided to limit my purchase to either the EML glass or a pair of TBGRPs. Then address other areas of the system and return to complete the tube purchase not yet made.
   
  With funds being tight, I convinced myself while saving "Silent One, either you eat well or sleep well but you cannot do both." So, today I went with the EML 5U4G mesh, and can start focusing on my source... or so I thought. Now I can't stop thinking and lusting about trying the TBGRPs and the EML hasn't even shipped. 
   
  My audio "To Do List" is now as scrambled as my thoughts. Cut my day short, unable to focus on business. Please tell me we're not in a ruinous hobby, are we?!


----------



## Xcalibur255

My EML and TSRP followed each other in short succession as well.  It is a rather contagious affliction for sure.  What's worse I stretched my budget to the limit to get the TSRPs and I haven't even been using them.  I just wanted to know there was a pair sitting in the tube box in case they suddenly became much rarer or much more expensive.  I'm basically saving them for the upgrade to WA22 (and LCD-2) that I know I will succumb to at some point.  I have this gut feeling the TSRP and LCD-2 would be a mind blowing combination, something I'm hoping users who have both can confirm.


----------



## jerico

Anyone have any power cord impressions?  I have PS Audio AC3s all around (with my WA22 and W4S DAC2 going into a PS Audio Duet, with another AC3 going into the wall).  I prefer the sound of the 22 plugged into the Duet (which is weird, as my speaker amps sound better plugged into the wall).   I'm thinking of trying something else for the amp, to see if there's a more noticeable difference to justify other purchases.
   
  Any recommendations, given an open-minded budget (for kicks and giggles, for now)?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My EML and TSRP followed each other in short succession as well.  It is a rather contagious affliction for sure.  What's worse I stretched my budget to the limit to get the TSRPs and I haven't even been using them.  I just wanted to know there was a pair sitting in the tube box in case they suddenly became much rarer or much more expensive.  I'm basically saving them for the upgrade to WA22 (and LCD-2) that I know I will succumb to at some point.  I have this gut feeling the TSRP and LCD-2 would be a mind blowing combination, something I'm hoping users who have both can confirm.


 
   
   
  My original plan is "404!" Thought I'd purchase the WA6SE with no upgrades and make no upgrades. So that I could ascend to the WA22/WA5LE much quicker. As I proceeded to break the amp in, and listen to some really good music I kept thinking "Hmmm, maybe if I just..." Yeah, we know how that chapter ends! Happy upgrading!!!


----------



## debitsohn

wondering if someone could help me out. i bought a pair of EZ80s for my WA2.  both are suppose to be mullards (i thought that would be the brand) but it says on the box (written by the seller) mfg by mullard but the brands are neotron and philips.  i understand theyre both EZ80s but if im paying good money for these, i would have expected them to be the same company overall and at the very least, the same height/size. is it normal for tube websites to sell completely mismatched company tubes when ordered together?
   
  i was told they are "mullard ez80".


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> wondering if someone could help me out. i bought a pair of EZ80s for my WA2.  both are suppose to be mullards (i thought that would be the brand) but it says on the box (written by the seller) mfg by mullard but the brands are neotron and philips.  i understand theyre both EZ80s but if im paying good money for these, i would have expected them to be the same company overall and at the very least, the same height/size. is it normal for tube websites to sell completely mismatched company tubes when ordered together?
> 
> i was told they are "mullard ez80".


 

 Did the seller express the tubes were OEMs made by Mullard but different branding? OEMs are usually priced lower than the Mfg's own company name but same tube. I'd inquire, after all, this is an exciting hobby to discuss (save, when someone try's taking advantage of our passion).


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Anyone have any power cord impressions?  I have PS Audio AC3s all around (with my WA22 and W4S DAC2 going into a PS Audio Duet, with another AC3 going into the wall).  I prefer the sound of the 22 plugged into the Duet (which is weird, as my speaker amps sound better plugged into the wall).   I'm thinking of trying something else for the amp, to see if there's a more noticeable difference to justify other purchases.
> 
> Any recommendations, given an open-minded budget (for kicks and giggles, for now)?


 

 A very nice cord that's cheap is the Iron Lung Jelly Fish power cord. For a high end power cord the Black Sands Z1 violet.
  Your amps should be just fine with the Jelly Fish, your source player or DAC is the gear that a good power cord and power conditioner will help the most.


----------



## jerico

Thanks, Silly - I did hear a difference on my DAC when I swapped out its stock cable, so perhaps I will start there. That would require 2 cables though (since I'd likely want to upgrade the cable between wall and conditioner as well).


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> wondering if someone could help me out. i bought a pair of EZ80s for my WA2.  both are suppose to be mullards (i thought that would be the brand) but it says on the box (written by the seller) mfg by mullard but the brands are neotron and philips.  i understand theyre both EZ80s but if im paying good money for these, i would have expected them to be the same company overall and at the very least, the same height/size. is it normal for tube websites to sell completely mismatched company tubes when ordered together?
> 
> i was told they are "mullard ez80".


 


  Philips owned Mullard for a while, so it's quite possible that is a Mullard tube, and Neotron was pnly a re-brander anyway, so again, quite possible.  Do the tubes have the Mullard date codes etched at the bottom?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If you get them you can send them to me and I can match them on my Hickok 800a and send them back labeld .


 


  Thanks for the offer Glenn, I will hit you up once I collected 4 of them.  Of course I will pay any type of expense on testing and return shipping.


----------



## grokit

My only tube-rolling strategy so far has been to stop the insanity for a while and just stop buying vacuum tubes. I've already got more than enough combos to evaluate, try out, and break in for one lifetime a while on my amp.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Thanks, Silly - I did hear a difference on my DAC when I swapped out its stock cable, so perhaps I will start there. That would require 2 cables though (since I'd likely want to upgrade the cable between wall and conditioner as well).


 

 Don't think you need anything special from the wall to your conditioner, I use a mono price cord that is there heaviest gauge copper.


----------



## lukaskite

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> wondering if someone could help me out. i bought a pair of EZ80s for my WA2.  both are suppose to be mullards (i thought that would be the brand) but it says on the box (written by the seller) mfg by mullard but the brands are neotron and philips.  i understand theyre both EZ80s but if im paying good money for these, i would have expected them to be the same company overall and at the very least, the same height/size. is it normal for tube websites to sell completely mismatched company tubes when ordered together?
> 
> i was told they are "mullard ez80".


 

 Check if they have for ex. KC1 B2K3 code where "B" stands for Blackburn factory in England and D getter then it's 100% original Mullard. 
   
  Here is very useful site where you can check tube manufacture codes "http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm".


----------



## Icenine2

There is a heated discussion about the WA22 not being fully balanced?  I'm not sure what is being said here for sure.  Anyone?  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/456258/wa22-internal-pictures/15


----------



## Skylab

Given some of the people posting in that thread, I am staying out of it, but Glenn hit the nail on the head - it's not really relevant for the kind of headphones that can be used with the WA22 (meaning non-electrostats). Headphones really cannot be "balanced". Amps can, but the headphone is driven by two wires, period. There is no plus, minus, and additional ground for headphones. The WA22 can be used from either the XLR or TRS jacks in the same way, means that there is no need to recable headphones, but if you already have XLR cabled cans, you can use them. Seems convenient.


----------



## jc9394

For me, as long as it sounds good, it is good for me. True balanced or not but just like to heard what Jack has to said on this.  It may actually push me to get the WA5 sooner...
   
  EDIT - Just emailed Jack on this...


----------



## Icenine2

Rob,
   
  Is there a sonic advantage to having two XLR headphone connections rather than a TRS or is it still all the same?


----------



## Skylab

IMHO, when going from amp to headphone, there is no advantage. A truly balanced amp can have some sonic advantages versus unbalanced in terms of noise, but that is an amp thing, not a headphone cable thing.

Note however that I DO think headphone cables sound different from each other, so changing cable, regardless of the termination, can impact the sound slightly, IMO.


----------



## jerico

When I was researching which amp to get, I contacted Woo for some feedback.  Over a few back and forth messages, Jack said that with the WA22 a balanced source would have much more impact than a balanced cable out to the headphones (we were talking about T1s specifically).


----------



## Skylab

Which makes complete sense from an electrical standpoint.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> AIMHO, when going from amp to headphone, there is no advantage. A truly balanced amp can have some sonic advantages versus unbalanced in terms of noise, but that is an amp thing, not a headphone cable thing. Note however that I DO think headphone cables sound different from each other, so changing cable, regardless of the termination, can impact the sound slightly, IMO.


 


  Rob correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that with a single need amplifier and using a TRS plug you have a positive signal per channel and a common ground. That's why you have only 3 wires or 4 but two of them soldered together in the ground. In a balanced amplifier you have the positive signal per channel but instead of having a common ground in the negative side you actually have a dedicated negative signal for each channel. This negative signal is the same positive signal for the channel but inverted so actually you are providing double the power to the voicecoil and also controlling it in two half. This extra power and control of the voicecoil is translated into better control of the driver therefore better sound.
   
  At least this is my understanding, I have made the test with my HD800 running them out the SE output of my RP010B and the out of the balanced outputs and IMO the later sound better.
   
  Just to clarify. In speaking of the WA22 and the WA5 even that the WA22 is balanced my vote goes to the WA5. It is just a superior and more powerful amplifier.


----------



## Skylab

I don't believe that is the way it works. I am going to quote Glenn here, hope he does not mind:





2359glenn said:


> A differential signal is 3 wire the center is grounded the 2 signals are 180 degrees out of phase so when one is going positive the other is going negative
> 
> 
> referenced to ground. So if noise is picked up in the cable it will be the same in both signals and get canceled out in the output transformer in the amp.
> ...





 
this is consistent with my understanding. I don't think you gain anything in the manner in which you are suggesting. The driver has to move precisely with the input signal in order to reproduce the wavefor properly without massive distortion. It cannot be that by applying a negative voltage this will change the movement of the driver. It has to move exactly as dictated by the waveform, and the absence of positive voltage has the same impact. Remember that the speed at which the driver moves is what determines what the waveform is like. The driver doesn't move faster or slower that called for. It cannot. If it did, massive distortion of the waveform would be the result. And this is not something we have with single ended headphones 

If I am wrong, I welcome someone to explain it to me


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Yes you will have twice the power but also twice the impedance so if one amp has a output impedance of 50 ohms to in balanced will have 100 ohms and the lower impedance
  output will control the headphone better and if I want more volume I can just turn it up.
  And to compare any balanced amp to a SE WA5 with a direct heated triode 300B will blow it away. So what does that say about all that balanced crap.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Isn't that more akin to comparing a 6080 based amp to a 300B based amp though?  The gains from going balanced have always felt overstated to me, but if the WA22 sounds better using balanced source and output than it does running single ended then there is some value in that.
   
  What this particular thread has always seemed to lack are detailed musings on why the WA5 is superior to the WA22, rather than just the general statement that it is.  I keep hearing that the 300B sound is not for everybody, but good comparisons of the WA22 (the 6080/6AS7 sound) to the WA5 sound are hard to find.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Isn't that more akin to comparing a 6080 based amp to a 300B based amp though?  The gains from going balanced have always felt overstated to me, but if the WA22 sounds better using balanced source and output than it does running single ended then there is some value in that.
> 
> What this particular thread has always seemed to lack are detailed musings on why the WA5 is superior to the WA22, rather than just the general statement that it is.  I keep hearing that the 300B sound is not for everybody, but good comparisons of the WA22 (the 6080/6AS7 sound) to the WA5 sound are hard to find.


 


 The WA22 and for that mater any push pull amp is going to sound better with a fully balanced input ovet internal phase inverter there is very few phase inverters that do it right
  so going balanced right from the DAC that is usually close to perfect balance all the way to the output transformer balanced sounds better then using a phase inverter.
  As for the output of the amp to the headphones it's not going to matter much. the winding of the output transformer is hooked to the coil in the headphone the same way
  if the cable is SE or balanced.
  I feel the sound of direct heated triodes is better and when I herd the WA5 it was to my liking which is subjective and I shouldn't have put it that way.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes you will have twice the power but also twice the impedance so if one amp has a output impedance of 50 ohms to in balanced will have 100 ohms and the lower impedance
> output will control the headphone better and if I want more volume I can just turn it up.
> And to compare any balanced amp to a SE WA5 with a direct heated triode 300B will blow it away. So what does that say about all that balanced crap.


 

 What I wrote and understand is based on what the guys from Headphone.com say. Here is their quote:
   
 _"What is Balanced Headphone Drive?_

 Balanced Headphone Drive is a scheme that uses two wires to deliver equal and opposite audio signals to each side of the driver coil. When properly done a significant increase of audio performance is heard due to the doubling of slew rate and power; the reduction of some distortion components; and virtual elimination of crosstalk at the headphones due to the common ground."


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 In a amp that has a output transformer like the WA22 all these things are happening at the transformer and as far as crosstalk on the ground is BS a amp is much more likley to 
  have crosstalk in the power supply with both amps drawing off the same power supply than in the ground.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I feel the sound of direct heated triodes is better and when I herd the WA5 it was to my liking which is subjective and I shouldn't have put it that way.


 


  I'd be interesting in hearing what about it you liked, if you don't mind elaborating.  Subjective opinions are actually what I'm hoping to hear from people, since I can't hear a 300B amp myself.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> In a amp that has a output transformer like the WA22 all these things are happening at the transformer and as far as crosstalk on the ground is BS a amp is much more likley to
> have crosstalk in the power supply with both amps drawing off the same power supply than in the ground.


 


  I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone or claim that I am qualify to really backup the concept. I just stated what I have read about balanced amps for headphones (which is different of what we all know as balanced system in the Hi-Fi world) and quote the explanation from one of the well known manufactures in this hobby.
   
  I am dropping it now...peace.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> There is a heated discussion about the WA22 not being fully balanced?  I'm not sure what is being said here for sure.  Anyone?  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/456258/wa22-internal-pictures/15


 


  Jack has responded.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/456258/wa22-internal-pictures/30#post_7258747


----------



## Golfnutz

Question for anyone with Hickok (or Western Electric) tube tester. Does anyone have the settings for a 7236 tube. If someone knows of a better place to ask, please let me know where. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Question for anyone with Hickok (or Western Electric) tube tester. Does anyone have the settings for a 7236 tube. If someone knows of a better place to ask, please let me know where. Thanks.


 


 I left you a message with the numbers


----------



## Golfnutz

Thanks Glenn.


----------



## Silent One

RE: EML Glass (5U4G Mesh)
   
  Delivery confirmed: Check!
  Visual inspection:    Check!
  Deoxit Gold:           Check!
  Installation:            Scrrrreeeeecccch!!!!!!
   
  On my WA6SE, the Teflon tube socket for the power supply is notched at the 12 o'clock position. When installed, The Sophia Princess faced West. With the EML installed, the front is facing exactly East like the Sphinx! Anyone out there that has their rectifiers in the frontal postion? 
   
  Sure, it's a small thing. But when one is in to beauty and aesthetics, the first thing we notice is the small things. Will fire it up after UNC @ Duke and try to grow with the oddly faced position. 
   
  Post Script.: Never opened up my amp - is there a way I can rotate the tube socket? It's bothering me like no other and I haven't even heard The EML play yet!


----------



## jc9394

Jack did that to get the shortest possible path, I remember some one asked Jack to position the tube to face the front but he rejected the request.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Jack did that to get the shortest possible path, I remember some one asked Jack to position the tube to face the front but he rejected the request.


 

 Thanks, jc9394. At least I can move along now knowing this. I guess it's all tube specific since the Sophia and EML are 180 degrees opposite one another. The view from the front of the EML looks right impressive. From the side, it looks a bit ordinary. 
   
  Once I hear it, I'm quite sure this will all be forgotten - music has the power to _move_...


----------



## jc9394

It don't brother me a bit since I sit on the right side of he amp. It looks much better from the right Sid than the front but that is only with the rectifier but I miss the GEC glow.


----------



## Icenine2

I sit to the left of my amp.  I can't see the Shuguang Treasure or EML markings.  But.............a cool looking glow when the sun starts to dip.


----------



## Silent One

My desk is in an L-shape configuration - I sit behind the longest part of the desk with the amp on the short-side off my right shoulder. Actually, the amp is placed evenly with my shoulder and the power supply to its right. So, when I sit at a 45 degree angle where the two sides meet and look over, I see the narrow side of the EML's plates. Wanted to see it head on for the _glow._


----------



## Edi

That was my first reaction as well, but upon hearing the sound coming from the EML it cured everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> RE: EML Glass (5U4G Mesh)
> 
> Delivery confirmed: Check!
> Visual inspection:    Check!
> ...


----------



## Alucrid

So I just got my WA6 in last night and it's absolutely incredible. One odd thing happened though earlier this morning. I turned it on to have short listen to it and before I even start to play any music I plug my headphone in and hear voices. At first I thought I was crazy, but on listening to it some more it turns out that it's a local radio station. Is this just interference from someone near by listening to the radio? I didn't get any of that last night when using it. Also, is there any way to prevent this from occurring?


----------



## Clayton SF

I used to get that all the time with my TA phono stage from Eddie Currrent which was connected to my WA6. But I would have to turn the volume to about 2:00 before it really became noticeable. It turned out to be the cables from my turntable to the phono stage--they were unshielded cables. So I replaced them with shielded cables and now I hear no "voices." I suggest that you replace your interconnects with shielded ones to the WA6 unless they are already shielded. Just my two cents.


----------



## Alucrid

Hmm, I'll try that then. Thanks. I don't believe they are shielded. For me though the volume knob was at 0 and I could faintly hear the voices. When I turned the knob up, to about 1:00 I just got static and the volume of the voices didn't go up as I turned the knob, it just sorta hit a wall of static at that point.
   
  The *BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables *should work fine, right?
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I used to get that all the time with my TA phono stage from Eddie Currrent which was connected to my WA6. But I would have to turn the volume to about 2:00 before it really became noticeable. It turned out to be the cables from my turntable to the phono stage--they were unshielded cables. So I replaced them with shielded cables and now I hear no "voices." I suggest that you replace your interconnects with shielded ones to the WA6 unless they are already shielded. Just my two cents.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





alucrid said:


> Hmm, I'll try that then. Thanks. I don't believe they are shielded. For me though the volume knob was at 0 and I could faintly hear the voices. When I turned the knob up, to about 1:00 I just got static and the volume of the voices didn't go up as I turned the knob, it just sorta hit a wall of static at that point.
> 
> The *BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables *should work fine, right?
> Quote:
> ...


 
  The *BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables *are already shielded so now what's next? I really don't know. But just for the record. I've never heard any radio station on my WA6 except when playing the phono stage AND the voices and static would actually increase with the turn of the volume knob. Try this: either repositioning your WA6 or move it to another room just to see what happens.
   
  Is there a radio broadcast tower near you? If there is, then try moving the tower.


----------



## Alucrid

Ok, that sounds good. I live near a college, so I do think they have a tower that they broadcast from. I'll talk to them and see if we can't work things out. If that fails I guess I could try relocating the amp to another room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wickitom

If someone is using the Woo Headphone amplifier, how important is a DAC. I am slowly reading all the posts on this thread, and a lot of people's DAC are under $800. So how important is the DAC? I know its important but is the sound coming out of the headphones more do to the headphone amplifier or the DAC. I know the headphones make a difference too. 
   
  I am a newbie to all this audiophile grade equipment. Right now I listen to my flac music files through my AKG k702's through either my laptops headphone jacks or the cheap jack in the small computer speakers connected to the laptop. I was amazed how much more you hear just when I switched from crappy mp3's to lossless flac files. I want to upgrade my sound system. I am think of getting a Woo headphone amplifier, don't know which one yet, maybe the Woo 6SE, but you need a DAC in between the amp and the source. This is the reason of me asking how important is the DAC. I will be driving 96 and 192 khz files as well, I have very few but will be getting more. I am hoping in the future in getting another set of headphones as well.


----------



## grokit

Start with the amp and then add a DAC later to fully appreciate the improvement that it brings. IMHO you can get a pretty decent DAC for less than you may think and it will still be a significant upgrade.


----------



## wickitom

Thanks for the reply, if I do get headphone amp first, a Woo for example, how do I connect one to the laptop.


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by wickitom 

 "Thanks for the reply, if I do get headphone amp first, a Woo for example, how do I connect one to the laptop."


 Ideally the amp will receive it's input from a DAC. If your DAC has a USB input you can just run the USB from the laptop to the DAC. If the DAC doesn't accept USB you can use a USB/SPDIF converter. Then from the DAC you would use interconnects to the amp.

 Laptop > USB > DAC > interconnect > amp


 Laptop > USB > USB/SPDIF converter > DAC > interconnect > amp


 I hope that helps.


----------



## baka1969

Let me add that if you're willing to spend the money on a nice headphone and nice amp, you really need a DAC. If the budget doesn't allow for the amp plus DAC maybe you should adjust the budget or get a different amp that will allow you to afford the DAC. I will say first hand the internal sound card in a laptop is poor sounding. You'll be better off with a cheaper amp plus DAC than just the amp alone. Headphones like the K-70x should be thought of as a system. Each component working together and only as good as it's weakest link. I highly suggest a DAC. It makes a significant difference.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> Let me add that if you're willing to spend the money on a nice headphone and nice amp, you really need a DAC. If the budget doesn't allow for the amp plus DAC maybe you should adjust the budget or get a different amp that will allow you to afford the DAC. I will say first hand the internal sound card in a laptop is poor sounding. You'll be better off with a cheaper amp plus DAC than just the amp alone. Headphones like the K-70x should be thought of as a system. Each component working together and only as good as it's weakest link. I highly suggest a DAC. It makes a significant difference.


 


  I don't disagree but I use my WA6 with laptop line out until I afford gamma2 and I'm really happy with it before the DAC.  You can always add the DAC later in the future.  IMHO, get the best amp and headphone you can afford and add the rest later.


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by jc9394 




 "I don't disagree but I use my WA6 with laptop line out until I afford gamma2 and I'm really happy with it before the DAC.  You can always add the DAC later in the future.  IMHO, get the best amp and headphone you can afford and add the rest later."


 I must contrast. The difference a DAC makes must not be understated. A proper Amp/DAC combo can sound better than just the amp itself when using a laptop. Even if the amp without using a DAC is better than the one using a quality DAC. Again, it's a system used in tandem with each other.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by jc9394
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with JC.  If you can't afford a DAC now, get the best amp and headphone you can afford.  Then later when you can afford a DAC, you'll have the platform that can take advantage of it.
   
  That is not to underestimate the value of a DAC, it is important.  Hower from a practical standpoint, if you get the best you can afford now, when you can afford a DAC you'll have a system where you'll really be able to hear the difference.


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by mikemalter 



 "I agree with JC.  If you can't afford a DAC now, get the best amp and headphone you can afford.  Then later when you can afford a DAC, you'll have the platform that can take advantage of it.
 That is not to underestimate the value of a DAC, it is important.  Hower from a practical standpoint, if you get the best you can afford now, when you can afford a DAC you'll have a system where you'll really be able to hear the difference."


 I would challenge that a good but less expensive AMP/DAC combo would sound better than the more expensive amp itself. If you buy the amp and DAC at a good price then selling both when you're ready to upgrade shouldn't be that difficult. Many of us on Head-Fi have done this. It's part of the fun and process too.


----------



## dminches

The problem with trying to fit everything into a budget is you end up with relatively mediocre options for each of the components.  Then, in order to upgrade, you have to replace everything.  Get great headphones and a nice amp and buy a $150 DAC, like an HRT Music Streamer II which will work with your laptop and then replace that when you can afford to.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by mikemalter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There is no reason this could not work as well as the sales section of the board has really great deals.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So, I spent some time searching the forum, and all I continue to find are vague generalizations.  I find it quite unusual that nobody with experience with these types of amps ever wants to share impressions.


----------



## odyssey

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am also about to make a plunge for a tube amp. (good chance a WA5 or something..waiting for Jack's feedback) and will add a DAC at a letter date. Received my HE6 in January and in the interim, driving it with my speaker amp. and enjoying the music. I'd decided on this path because to change amp. and/or other equipment is an expensive route that I hope to avoid.  Been down this path before when I was on solid state hardware and hope not to relive this with my migration to tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





alucrid said:


> Ok, that sounds good. I live near a college, so I do think they have a tower that they broadcast from. I'll talk to them and see if we can't work things out. If that fails I guess I could try relocating the amp to another room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Do you have a separate ground wire from TT to the phono stage?? This is to ground the turntable and not rely entirely on the shields in your cables to ground it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





odyssey said:


> I am also about to make a plunge for a tube amp. (good chance a WA5 or something..waiting for Jack's feedback) and will add a DAC at a letter date. Received my HE6 in January and in the interim, driving it with my speaker amp. and enjoying the music. I'd decided on this path because to change amp. and/or other equipment is an expensive route that I hope to avoid.  Been down this path before when I was on solid state hardware and hope not to relive this with my migration to tubes.




   
  You can't go wrong with the WA5; from what I have learned it's one of the most versatile headphone amps ever made, and virtually impossible to outgrow. I haven't been fortunate enough to hear one yet, but from what I understand they sound pretty good too. Add their WEE electrostatic adapter to the speaker terminals and you could drive damn near any headphone ever made with it.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You are right grokit. I am lucky enough to own one (the LE version fully upgraded) and I totally love it.


----------



## wickitom

I been comparing the upgrades on the WA22 and the WA 6 SE and I am a bit confused. I am not confused on the Tube upgrades but the parts upgrades. The WA22 has no part upgrades but the WA 6 SE has premium parts upgrade, Attenuator upgrade (this upgrade is already done on the WA22), and a Teflon tube socket upgrade.
  Are the premium parts and Teflon tube socket upgrades incorporated into the WA22?
   
  Also, what is the advantage of having the power supply separate from the headphone amp? For example like the WA 6 SE and WA 5 and WA 5 LE.


----------



## Audiogalore

Just want to post that I pulled the trigger and took procession of a WA5 added to my collection of headphone amps, will post pictures soon.
   
  Enjoy music!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For me, as long as it sounds good, it is good for me. True balanced or not but just like to heard what Jack has to said on this.  It may actually push me to get the WA5 sooner...
> 
> EDIT - Just emailed Jack on this...


 


 HAHA, the day is come eventually, congrats.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My desk is in an L-shape configuration - I sit behind the longest part of the desk with the amp on the short-side off my right shoulder. Actually, the amp is placed evenly with my shoulder and the power supply to its right. So, when I sit at a 45 degree angle where the two sides meet and look over, I see the narrow side of the EML's plates. Wanted to see it head on for the _glow._


 


   Very nice set up, SilentOne.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





wickitom said:


> I been comparing the upgrades on the WA22 and the WA 6 SE and I am a bit confused. I am not confused on the Tube upgrades but the parts upgrades. The WA22 has no part upgrades but the WA 6 SE has premium parts upgrade, Attenuator upgrade (this upgrade is already done on the WA22), and a Teflon tube socket upgrade.
> Are the premium parts and Teflon tube socket upgrades incorporated into the WA22?


 

 I asked Jack the same question when I ordered my WA22, the WA22 already comes with teflon tubes socket but there are no premium parts upgrades. Still, he helped me to install a Furutech rhodium IEC inlet and wire it up with Mundorf silver/gold wiring when I provided the parts, so you can upgrade certain parts if you provide them and ask Jack nicely. If you want to use your own wire for the WA22, you will need to provide 10 feet.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, dannie01 - great to see you in this space! It's been a lean 7 months (built system 9 July 2010) but I strive to get the most bang for my buck until I rejoin the ranks of the employed. Ohhhhh, but when I get back on my feet, watch out!!! Gonna buy so much gear, I'll be handing out promises! "Baby, if you come back inside I promise to give you my undivided attention..."   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In the photo the side wall looks blank but just two feet above sits a wall clock of the Eiffel Tower - set to local Paris time. Thanks to some prodding by you, jc9394 & silly sally, I finally got my EML Glass yesterday (5U4G Mesh). I politely asked Miss Sophia (274B Mesh) if she could wait in the other room. I escorted her out of the listening room with great dignity, and showed tremendous grace while she continued to question the relationship.
   
  I've only  10 hours on the new glass. I suspect real satisfaction looms at hours 100-150. My initial impression? Greater resolution and detail in the middle (midrange magic). And while there is bass, it is lacking early on though I'm reserving that judgement for 7 to 10 days. It's there, it's clean, it's taught yet, lacking some authority. All in all, still very excited about the purchase. It's just after 0200 hours - now listening to the groundbreaking and legendary track "Chameleon" - Herbie Hancock (Head Hunters 1973). Instead of preparing for bed, this track has me feeling electric! When you've the chance, have a listen to "Chameleon" on your WA5LE... take care!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It will come eventually.  If I have not spent so much on the kitchen remodel, I would drive to NY and pickup the WA5 on sale in the for sale forum.
   
  Just in case someone have extra cash, http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/524896/wooaudio-wa5-maxxed-as-of-5-2009


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I asked Jack the same question when I ordered my WA22, the WA22 already comes with teflon tubes socket but there are no premium parts upgrades. Still, he helped me to install a Furutech rhodium IEC inlet and wire it up with Mundorf silver/gold wiring when I provided the parts, so you can upgrade certain parts if you provide them and ask Jack nicely. If you want to use your own wire for the WA22, you will need to provide 10 feet.


 


   I did the same thing for my WA5-LE. I sent Jack Neotech OCC Copper wire for all the internal wiring.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am so tempted.  It's just the tubes cost so much.  If I get another long-term computer development project where I can work out of my office, I think I might make the move.  However, there is the PS Audio PWD and their new P5 or P10.  I may just stick with my WA22 for a while and bump up infrastructure.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I am so tempted.  It's just the tubes cost so much.  If I get another long-term computer development project where I can work out of my office, I think I might make the move.  However, there is the PS Audio PWD and their new P5 or P10.  I may just stick with my WA22 for a while and bump up infrastructure.


 


  IMHO, PWD worth every pennies.  I go thru at least 5 DAC ranging from $300 to $3000 and decided to keep PWD.


----------



## Icenine2

Check out this tubed DAC.  Hand built.  Anyone seen this Woo counterpart DAC?
   
http://www.lampizator.eu/szop/L-Szop/LAMPIZATOR_DAC.html


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Check out this tubed DAC.  Hand built.  Anyone seen this Woo counterpart DAC?
> 
> http://www.lampizator.eu/szop/L-Szop/LAMPIZATOR_DAC.html


 


  Nice find, love to try a Level 4 but I guess I have to wait to recover my spending on kitchen remodel.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My wife keeps telling me to get something nice for my birthday.  When I get my next contract its going to be the PWD with bridge.


----------



## ardilla

Bad tubes from eBay!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Got these from eBay. Put them into the WA2. They make loud humming noise, but amp works - for the short time I left it on, that is... Humming was so loud I didn't dare to leave it on for more than a few seconds. Humming was present in both channels. 
   
  Are these tubes wrong for the WA2? Why do they hum so loud? 
   
  Text on tubes say: Made in USA 68-22


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Bad tubes from eBay!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 These should work.  That you hear a loud humming noise is not good.  I got a pair of RCA 6AS7G's on the internet and had the same problem but with only one of them.  The vendor was kind enough to refund my money.


----------



## ardilla

The humming noise made me feel like the amp tried to simulate a running fridge...


----------



## Icenine2

When my wife says that it usually means a shirt.
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## diego

The tubes are the right ones. However, some tubes hum when ac heated and most amps that use 6AS7s are ac heated because of the current consumption.


----------



## mikemalter

I'm trying to be optimistic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> When my wife says that it usually means a shirt.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wind016

I just got my EML 5U4G from George Lenz. They are available and Jack has them in too. I'm burning mine's in. Does anybody with experience in the EML like to share their experience with burn-in? Like how did the sound change and how long did it change?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> I just got my EML 5U4G from George Lenz. They are available and Jack has them in too. I'm burning mine's in. Does anybody with experience in the EML like to share their experience with burn-in? Like how did the sound change and how long did it change?


 

 Jack has the newest revision coming in from overseas, and I think there are a little different then the one's out there.
   
  I had a Sophia in my WA22 and the change was for the better immediately as soon as I put the EML in.  About 30 hours later, it started getting better with the bass deepening and the top end less harsh.  It finished at about 60 hours and although may have changed after that, I couldn't hear it.
   
  The EML is a really great tube and I'm sure you are going to love it.  I actually bought a spare in case one goes out again.  The difference between the EML and the Sophia in my opinion is very big and it just takes the WA22 to a whole new level.


----------



## jerico

LOL - I hear that, Ice (re: the shirt)!
   
  Mike - you're a lucky fella!


----------



## wind016

I sure hope the EML gets warmer. There's slightly more bass than the Sophia right now, which it is like "new-new."  I've only burned it about 2 hours. The highs are a bit bright, but generally similar to the Sophia right now.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As long as he got it new from Jack that's a nice find.
  Don't care much for the tubes he is using so I would not take the price of the tubes into account when comparing to what a new WA5 would cost.
   
  Or look at a new WA5LE for $2500 + $1100 for parts upgrade. The speaker out put on the WA5 needs some very high efficiency speakers to work, however if you need the XLR plug then the WA5 is worth considering.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for answering wind016's question, as I was wondering the same thing. My EML Glass arrived Wednesday; 14 hours in at this writing. In contrast to Miss Sophia, there's a bit more (I'm being understated) magic in the midrange. The information from 125 hz down, however, isn't exactly missing, but it ain't hitting hard as it should... though I expect it will eventually. Can't complain at 14 hours. The bass is clean and taught, it's just that it's shy; reserved.
   
  Your comments were helpful. I'm glad y'all interrupted my dilly-dallying around the upgrade - I'm already being rewarded during this brief introduction phase and glad I was nudged into making the purchase. Both of our purchases from George are from the end of Nov, beginning of Dec 2010 batch. Not sure if you're referring to an earlier period for EMLs.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh! Thanks for answering XD Sorry for my rudeness. I'm distracted by my new tube  (]=.=[)  
   
  At 3.5 hours now, the low mids have started to bloom more, but the highs are not lessening. At this rate though, I may be really happy with this tube. Even right now I can tell it is very very detailed and spacious.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I let the EML warm for 2 hours with a variety of Jazz compositions. I wanted to be surprised, so I didn't sneak a quick listen at all. But once I did, the improvement in sound was immediate - more detailed (especially in the middle) and downright expansive. I'm burning the glass in four hour increments. Will be back at it by 23:30... and still grinnin'!


----------



## ardilla

*diego - *are you saying that the tubes could work in a different amp? What is "ac heated"?
  Quote: 





diego said:


> The tubes are the right ones. However, some tubes hum when ac heated and most amps that use 6AS7s are ac heated because of the current consumption.


 
    
  Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

For all of you folks who are not completely satisfied with the "new generation" rectifier tubes, I strongly recommend spending the $25 or so to get a NOS 5U4G from Sylvania, Raytheon, Tung-Sol, or Ken-Rad. Try that in your amp and see what you think. You might be surprised. I have not tried the EML, but I massively prefer the vintage Tung- Sol 5U4G over the Sophia.


----------



## Clayton SF

Skylab --Thank you for the NOS 5U4G recommendation. Do you find any sonic differences between 5U4G (coke bottle) and 5U4GA/B tubes? I see that most of the manufacturers you've mentioned offer both versions.


----------



## khollister

Oh-oh - problems in WA2 land here
   
  When I got the WA2, both EZ80's appeared dead and I have been running it with some Valvo's I had. I had also tried a pair of Mullards I had as part of the troubleshooting process and they also worked. Jack sent me replacement EI EZ80's and I briefly put them in, verified they worked and returned to the Valvo's for my listening.
   
  Today I decide to put the replacement EI's back in to let them burn in and see what I thought. Now they do not work - sstone cold, no filament light. Put the Mullards in - stone cold!. The Valvo's still work, the Mullards and EI's don't regardless of how many times I swap them.
   
  I pulled the tubes, turned on the power and measured the filament voltage - something odd here. I only get .6 VAC on the rectifier sockets. I get 7.6 VAC on one 6922 socket and 3.6 VAC on the other! I get no DC voltage at all on any filament pin.
   
  I sent email to Jack, but anyone know enough about the circuit to guess what is going on here? I am also concerned that I blew the Mullards, although there was no flash of light or pop, and they worked fine the first time I tried them. Really puzzled how the Valvo's continue to work, but nothing else.
   
  Took the bottom off, but nothing is obviously disconnected or broken. 
   
  If this is an assembly problem, I'm going to be really disappointed in Woo Audio's QC, to say nothing of having to ship this back and be without the amp for a couple weeks. I recall another poster saying there was wiring error in his - not good.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





khollister said:


> Took the bottom off, but nothing is obviously disconnected or broken.
> 
> If this is an assembly problem, I'm going to be really disappointed in Woo Audio's QC, to say nothing of having to ship this back and be without the amp for a couple weeks. I recall another poster saying there was wiring error in his - not good.


 

 my WA2 had a wiring issue.  he said  that the wire mustve come loose during shipping... had to ship it back and wait for it to be shipped back.  he paid shipping both ways but i had to wait another 1.5-2 weeks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> my WA2 had a wiring issue.  he said  that the wire mustve come loose during shipping... had to ship it back and wait for it to be shipped back.  he paid shipping both ways but i had to wait another 1.5-2 weeks.


 

 I remember that episode in your Woo-life! So how have you been, debitsohn? You probably have now acquired a good cache of nos tubes since we last communicated. I hope your WA2 has been giving you hours of well-earned entertainment.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Hey Clayton! i havent collected too many tubes.  was focusing on my portable setup since i have a long commute.  i hoep to start looking into some tubes soon.  but yes the WA2 is wonderful.  i think i had some bad tubes or something for a while, it wasnt sounding great.. just good. then i switched my tubes out and it was again... amazing.


----------



## Skylab

Clayton SF, my impression has been the 5U4G's are better than the GB's. For sure the G's look cooler 

Khollister, I know it sucks, but that amp needs to go back for repair. Something is really wrong.


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Clayton SF, my impression has been the 5U4G's are better than the GB's. For sure the G's look cooler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think I fixed it - some residual EE skills from that degree even though I have been managing software engineers for 15 years. Turns out one of the filament pins (5) was not soldered to the mini-PCB on the bottom of the tube socket! Not sure why the Valvo tubes worked, but the EI's are now working with 6.2 VAC on the filaments of both tubes per my true RMS DMM. Weller soldering station to the rescue with a little Wonder solder.
   
  I sent a full report to Jack and signed it "Woo Audio Technical Services South", so I'll see what he says (and check his sense of humor at the same time) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  UPDATE: - my precious Mullard 6V4's do still work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The weird results with all of the tubes out appears to be normal -must be something peculiar to how Jack has done the power supply. The blue power LED doesn't light up unless the Tubes are installed either.


----------



## khollister

I do need a WA2 owner to tell me which way the bottom cover goes on - vents in the front or back? I didn't pay attention when I took it off (yeah - I know)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





khollister said:


> I do need a WA2 owner to tell me which way the bottom cover goes on - vents in the front or back? I didn't pay attention when I took it off (yeah - I know)


 


  The vents go towards the front of the WA2 directly under the 6080 and 6922 sockets.


----------



## khollister

Thanks, Clayton - guessed right
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## khollister

Tube filaments ("heaters") can be run from AC or DC. Normal electronic practice (and the tubes were designed) was to use AC, but DC is often used in the theory that is reduces noise from either the 60Hz or higher frequency noise on the AC getting into the circuit via coupling from the filament in the tube. The WA2 uses AC filament voltage FWIW. I think the theory might be that the hum might go away in an amp using DC filament voltages.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> *diego - *are you saying that the tubes could work in a different amp? What is "ac heated"?


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For all of you folks who are not completely satisfied with the "new generation" rectifier tubes, I strongly recommend spending the $25 or so to get a NOS 5U4G from Sylvania, Raytheon, Tung-Sol, or Ken-Rad. Try that in your amp and see what you think. You might be surprised. I have not tried the EML, but I massively prefer the vintage Tung- Sol 5U4G over the Sophia.


 

 Thanks. I bookmarked just in case.
   
  The EML is gradually getting warmer as far as I can tell. Hopefully, it will get warm enough to my liking. I'm only 5 hours in anyways =/


----------



## Wedge

I am pretty new to posting on Head-Fi, but I figured I would just say, that I just placed my order for a Woo Audio WA-5 (Black) with the upgraded capacitors.  I also ordered Shuguang 300Bs, Shuguang 6SN7s and Sophia 274 Bs.  I sold my Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum to make this purchase.  I did it because I love 6SN7s and I've read that a lot of you guys really like Woo Audio amps.  The reviews and the tube choices make it seem like even if the amp doesn't suit my exact tastes in stock form, I can do some tube rolling until I find the right combination.  Also the Rogue headphone output wasn't really good for my tastes so, I have my fingers crossed, now all I am waiting for is the Audez'e LCD-2 I have had on pre-order for a while.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I am pretty new to posting on Head-Fi, but I figured I would just say, that I just placed my order for a Woo Audio WA-5 (Black) with the upgraded capacitors.  I also ordered Shuguang 300Bs, Shuguang 6SN7s and Sophia 274 Bs.  I sold my Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum to make this purchase.  I did it because I love 6SN7s and I've read that a lot of you guys really like Woo Audio amps.  The reviews and the tube choices make it seem like even if the amp doesn't suit my exact tastes in stock form, I can do some tube rolling until I find the right combination.  Also the Rogue headphone output wasn't really good for my tastes so, I have my fingers crossed, now all I am waiting for is the Audez'e LCD-2 I have had on pre-order for a while.


 


  Congratulations! you are the second person I know with the black color. I received my WS5-LE last August and have been enjoying it a lot. Later down the road think in EML 300B Mesh or if you can EAT 300B. I ordered mine with the Shuguang Treasure CV181 but I enjoy more the Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base.


----------



## ardilla

So *khollister *(too bad to read about your WA2 touble   you are saying that the guy who sold me the RCA 6AS7 G may have tested them in an amp using DC filament voltages and experienced no hum, but that it is humming (very loud!) in the WA2 because it uses AC filament.. But shoulnd't this then do for all the RCA 6AS7 G's - aren't they the same?
   
*skylab *! - you recommended these - so I must have gotten a flawed sample? Can they have been shaken too much during transport?
   
 Quote: 


khollister said:


> Tube filaments ("heaters") can be run from AC or DC. Normal electronic practice (and the tubes were designed) was to use AC, but DC is often used in the theory that is reduces noise from either the 60Hz or higher frequency noise on the AC getting into the circuit via coupling from the filament in the tube. The WA2 uses AC filament voltage FWIW. I think the theory might be that the hum might go away in an amp using DC filament voltages.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Owners who are not finding the top end and more solid-statish sounding presentation of the Sophia and EML 274B tubes to their liking might want to look at the Brimar 5R4GY.  This is a tube Takezo used to recommend.  If you have too much treble or any treble harshness this will cure it guaranteed.  Not a tube for rocking out, but it is balanced and well suited to other genres.  They are smooth and mellow, but don't sacrifice control or resolution to achieve it.  I felt it was a nice upgrade from the American tubes of this type, which are admittedly cheaper ($20 vs. about $50 for the Brimar) and overall similar in tone. 
   
  Speaking purely in terms of detail retrieval I feel the Brimar is a match for the Tung Sol 5U4G, where as the RCA and GE 5R4GY tubes are not.  So you can have your cake and eat it too if a more laid back and open sound is desired.
   
  It's a different sound from the 5U4G though, with a greater emphasis on air and note separation at the expense of some PRaT.  More of a middle hall (or even middle-back) sound where as the 5U4G is front-middle to my ears.  Great deep bass too, better than the 5U4G tubes IMO.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Owners who are not finding the top end and more solid-statish sounding presentation of the Sophia and EML 274B tubes to their liking might want to look at the Brimar 5R4GY.  This is a tube Takezo used to recommend.  If you have too much treble or any treble harshness this will cure it guaranteed.  Not a tube for rocking out, but it is balanced and well suited to other genres.  They are smooth and mellow, but don't sacrifice control or resolution to achieve it.  I felt it was a nice upgrade from the American tubes of this type, which are admittedly cheaper ($20 vs. about $50 for the Brimar) and overall similar in tone.
> 
> Speaking purely in terms of detail retrieval I feel the Brimar is a match for the Tung Sol 5U4G, where as the RCA and GE 5R4GY tubes are not.  So you can have your cake and eat it too if a more laid back and open sound is desired.
> 
> It's a different sound from the 5U4G though, with a greater emphasis on air and note separation at the expense of some PRaT.  More of a middle hall (or even middle-back) sound where as the 5U4G is front-middle to my ears.  Great deep bass too, better than the 5U4G tubes IMO.


 

 Hey Xcalibur255. Thanks so much! I saved ur response too. Just in case the EML doesn't burn in to how I like. You know if these rectifiers work for the 6SE? It seems from what I read that the driver/power tubes do not always work with the 6SE like it does with the 6, but it seems all the rectifiers work.
   
  Also, what are some good tubes tubes with powerful bass impact to rock out with that works for the WA6/SE?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Owners who are not finding the top end and more solid-statish sounding presentation of the Sophia and EML 274B tubes to their liking might want to look at the Brimar 5R4GY.  This is a tube Takezo used to recommend.  If you have too much treble or any treble harshness this will cure it guaranteed.  Not a tube for rocking out, but it is balanced and well suited to other genres.  They are smooth and mellow, but don't sacrifice control or resolution to achieve it.  I felt it was a nice upgrade from the American tubes of this type, which are admittedly cheaper ($20 vs. about $50 for the Brimar) and overall similar in tone.
> 
> Speaking purely in terms of detail retrieval I feel the Brimar is a match for the Tung Sol 5U4G, where as the RCA and GE 5R4GY tubes are not.  So you can have your cake and eat it too if a more laid back and open sound is desired.
> 
> It's a different sound from the 5U4G though, with a greater emphasis on air and note separation at the expense of some PRaT.  More of a middle hall (or even middle-back) sound where as the 5U4G is front-middle to my ears.  Great deep bass too, better than the 5U4G tubes IMO.


 

 X,
   
  Thanks for this post.  I am always on the lookout for something to tame troublesome treble (T3)!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Upscale Audio has some of the Brimar for $50 plus shipping, this is where I got mine.  I usually shop eBay to get the better prices, but that price seems very fair and and the tube was in pristine condition for a NOS tube.  The tube guy for this store seems to really cherry pick his stock, which is reassuring.


----------



## Skylab

ardilla said:


> So *khollister *(too bad to read about your WA2 touble   you are saying that the guy who sold me the RCA 6AS7 G may have tested them in an amp using DC filament voltages and experienced no hum, but that it is humming (very loud!) in the WA2 because it uses AC filament.. But shoulnd't this then do for all the RCA 6AS7 G's - aren't they the same?
> 
> *skylab *! - you recommended these - so I must have gotten a flawed sample? Can they have been shaken too much during transport?
> 
> Quote:





 
There is absolutely no problem using the RCA 6AS7G, or ANY 6AS7G, in the WA2; that is the tube it is designed for. It's unfortunate that you got a bad pair, but it seems to have happened.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Upscale Audio has some of the Brimar for $50 plus shipping, this is where I got mine.  I usually shop eBay to get the better prices, but that price seems very fair and and the tube was in pristine condition for a NOS tube.  The tube guy for this store seems to really cherry pick his stock, which is reassuring.


 

 Thanks guys. I just purchased a Brimar from Upscale Audio. I also purchased a Tung Sol 5U4G from tctubes.com
   
  Can't wait to start some tube rolling.


----------



## bergnerm

Okay... my fully upgraded WA2 is on order... two weeks lead time--can't wait


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Upscale Audio has some of the Brimar for $50 plus shipping, this is where I got mine.  I usually shop eBay to get the better prices, but that price seems very fair and and the tube was in pristine condition for a NOS tube.  The tube guy for this store seems to really cherry pick his stock, which is reassuring.


 

 Beautimous!


----------



## musicman59

Speaking of EML 5U4G Mesh. Here are mine glowing in the dark.

   
  And my WA5-LE with EML 300B Mesh, TungSol 6F8G and ENL 5U4G Mesh.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Okay... my fully upgraded WA2 is on order... two weeks lead time--can't wait


 


  congrats! i have a stock WA2 and its awesome. i ( i as in my wallet, credit cards, and bank account) cant imagine how much better yours will sound!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I am pretty new to posting on Head-Fi, but I figured I would just say, that I just placed my order for a Woo Audio WA-5 (Black) with the upgraded capacitors.  I also ordered Shuguang 300Bs, Shuguang 6SN7s and Sophia 274 Bs.  I sold my Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum to make this purchase.  I did it because I love 6SN7s and I've read that a lot of you guys really like Woo Audio amps.  The reviews and the tube choices make it seem like even if the amp doesn't suit my exact tastes in stock form, I can do some tube rolling until I find the right combination.  Also the Rogue headphone output wasn't really good for my tastes so, I have my fingers crossed, now all I am waiting for is the Audez'e LCD-2 I have had on pre-order for a while.


 
  As musicman59 said he is not using any of the tubes you ordered. When I ordered my WA5/LE I made the mistake and got the Shuguang 300B' and 6SN7's/CV181-Z. I don't use them anymore. I did get the EML 5U4G's and I am still using them, better tube than the Sophia 274B.
  I agree with musicman's choice of 300B and his drive tubes are probably fine also.
  I have gone the extreme route and use all nos matched pair's of WE300B's (26/56), TSRP's oval mica 6SN7GT's (09/42) and a new pair of EML 5U4G's. imo the best you will ever do.
   
  I went with a pair of HE-6's over the LCD-2's but your new WA5/LE should be a very good match for your LCD-2's as it is with the HE-6's.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

If anyone's interested, I have an EML 5U4G mesh plate for sale in the Accessories Forum right now.  It hasn't seen much response, possibly because I should have put it in the amplification forum instead.  Mint condition, already with 100 hours or so of time on it.  Price with CONUS shipping is $175.00.  You can see it HERE.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> If anyone's interested, I have an EML 5U4G mesh plate for sale in the Accessories Forum right now.  It hasn't seen much response, possibly because I should have put it in the amplification forum instead.  Mint condition, already with 100 hours or so of time on it.  Price with CONUS shipping is $175.00.  You can see it HERE.


 

 That was fast--SOLD.  Thanks, Clayton.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, dannie01 - great to see you in this space! It's been a lean 7 months (built system 9 July 2010) but I strive to get the most bang for my buck until I rejoin the ranks of the employed. Ohhhhh, but when I get back on my feet, watch out!!! Gonna buy so much gear, I'll be handing out promises! "Baby, if you come back inside I promise to give you my undivided attention..."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 As always that we've said here - be patient buddy. Let them burn in before any serious impression. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks for your recommendation, I 'll try to find that album.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the heads up, I have a bunch of 6SN7s, but I have to dig them out, since its been a while since I have had to use them.  As for 300Bs since they are relatively pricey tubes I will have to wait a while.  But in the end I'll take a listen to the tubes they come with and the Shuguangs for a while, until I have fully digested the purchase I just made, and the headphones too.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It will come eventually.  If I have not spent so much on the kitchen remodel, I would drive to NY and pickup the WA5 on sale in the for sale forum.
> 
> Just in case someone have extra cash, http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/524896/wooaudio-wa5-maxxed-as-of-5-2009


 

  That WA5 is really a beauty, I'm tempted if I don't have a WA5LE.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> That was fast--SOLD.  Thanks, Clayton.


 

 Thank you, too.
  And now that you're venturing into the world of the WA2, your rectifiers of choice will be the EZ80 / 6V4 and EZ81 / 6CA4. Diminutive tubes compared to the 5U4 class.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Thanks for that info; I will be interested in tubes other than the stock ones that come with the amp, but I don't know if I will want to spend for the upgraded tubes offered on the Woo site right away.  I'll be doing some WA2 thread reading, but I'm sure the stock tubes will be fine for awhile . . .


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> RE: EML Glass (5U4G Mesh)
> 
> ... On my WA6SE, the Teflon tube socket for the power supply is notched at the 12 o'clock position. When installed, The Sophia Princess faced West. With the EML installed, the front is facing exactly East like the Sphinx! Anyone out there that has their rectifiers in the frontal postion?
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Jack did that to get the shortest possible path, I remember some one asked Jack to position the tube to face the front but he rejected the request.


 

 I found a photo of this guy's WA5SE that has his EML 5U4G mesh plate facing front. Now how could he have done that?


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I noticed that the power light is also a different color. Not blue...
   

   
  I feel the EML 5U4G is really evil looking...


----------



## h.rav

[size=medium]

  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





   ​[/size]

  ^ I did it myself. It's a 5 minute job.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wind016 said:


> I noticed that the power light is also a different color. Not blue...
> 
> *I feel the EML 5U4G is really evil looking...*


 
  Hey. These guys must be related!!!
  It's GO-4 from WALL-E and EML-5U4G!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I've been lusting after that combo for awhile, I am sure that if it wasn't so hard to ship it would have sold by now. Glad it's such a long drive, I don't need to spend that kind of cash ATM!
   
  edit: wasn't that the one with the K1000? Now the WA5 is for sale alone.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 hehehe I really feel the EML looks like a Decepticon though...
   
  Anyways, something happened today. My EMLs suddenly sound very warm. I think I'll have to sleep a bit, wake up tomorrow, and make sure with fresh ears.
   
  Sadly the Tung Sols were reported bad by the seller. Oh wells...


----------



## Xcalibur255

My EML 274B when through a phase like this.  After that it swung back towards neutral a bit before settling down.


----------



## Xcalibur255

For fellow Woo owners who have/use the "Mouse Ear" Tung Sol 6SN7GT there is a discovery I want to share with you:  the Brimar 5R4GY has _amazing_ synergy with them.  I have never liked the treble on the mouse ears, but the Brimar completely mellows them out to produce what, to my ears, is the most neutral and uncolored sound I have heard from any tube combination I've tried in my amp.  That opinion is colored by my choice of headphones of course, but I feel the Brimar matches up fabulously with these 6SN7s in general and wanted to share that experience.


----------



## wind016

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My EML 274B when through a phase like this.  After that it swung back towards neutral a bit before settling down.


 

 That sounds good, because it seems to have lost some resolution and in exchange, gotten a lot of fatty low end instead. I have kept 2 bars of upper mids lowered a bit on my Itunes for a while to deal with the brightness. Today, I was able to use the EQ flat and I wanted to bring up the highs. Surprising. Never experienced this much change before.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Looking back, I remember reading about your 'rolling fuses' in the WA6SE. But don't recall your impressions once you did. Did you find it to be worthy of a $40 tweek? Was the change in sound slight or quite nice and noticeable? How was your New Year?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I see the owner of said amp has responded before I; I read his/her blog last Spring which inspired me to start saving for the WA6SE. I had been saving up for the WA6, but after reading Ravenda's blog I had to step my game up. I would've bought that EML Glass from RJM if I had known it was for sell - good p/u!
   
  Hope your wide and extraordinary tube collection is meticulously store with earthquakes in mind. If "The City that knows how" ever gets beside itself, if I'm up here I'll help you clean up. Then stroll down the hill for a drink and bite to eat!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





h.rav said:


> [size=medium]
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 I remember reading your blog last year where you changed the light indicator. What am I looking at if I want to turn my 5U4G around to the front? Rotate plug-n-play or will I have to break out the soldering iron? Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





h.rav said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*Great job, h.rav. I should learn to use a soldering iron. Any special instructions on this simple 5-minute mod?*
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> > I found a photo of this guy's WA5SE that has his EML 5U4G mesh plate facing front. Now how could he have done that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
_*Excellent*_. Lots of good joints to eat at down the hill. Or even over the hill! Although "down the hill" has more character (and characters).
   
  I dread the thought of a slight trembler--you've seen my shelves of tubes which was inspired by a photo *Skylab's Vintage Tub Box Mosaic**. There's no room to display the EML box. Heck, it is the size of a small child's shoe box.
   
  Do you know how to wield a soldering iron? That's great if *h.rav* did the mod in 5 minutes. I have no soldering skills and if I did attempt the mod I'd probably mount the EML upside-down.
   
**Skylab*--This would make a great jig-saw puzzle. Do you have a hi-rez version? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I feel like playing _Tetris_.
__


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Even before reading your post, Tetris popped into my head. It's been quite some time since I wielded the mighty soldering iron. These days, the two biggest changes in my skills: too many years w/o soldering; my vision. I'm recovering from eye surgery earlier this month. One of the beautiful things about our passion for music and our gear is being able to listen even with eyes closed.
   
  If this mod is simple and straight forward, I'm rotating that bad boy. It's been five days and it's still bothering me. H.Rav's shot with label front and center looks great!


----------



## Skylab

I do have a high res version of that pic, but no way to post it...this is the best the posted version gets:


----------



## Clayton SF

^ THANK YOU, Skylab. If I could I would make a poster out of it and tape it to my refrigerator door like one Ginormous refrigerator magnet! Hehehe.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do have a high res version of that pic, but no way to post it...this is the best the posted version gets:


 







 Amazing collection, I know, I said that before but it really amazing..............................................................


----------



## Skylab

Thanks. It represents years of hard work


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> For fellow Woo owners who have/use the "Mouse Ear" Tung Sol 6SN7GT there is a discovery I want to share with you:  the Brimar 5R4GY has _amazing_ synergy with them.  I have never liked the treble on the mouse ears, but the Brimar completely mellows them out to produce what, to my ears, is the most neutral and uncolored sound I have heard from any tube combination I've tried in my amp.  That opinion is colored by my choice of headphones of course, but I feel the Brimar matches up fabulously with these 6SN7s in general and wanted to share that experience.


 

 X, what is a mouse ear?  Do you have a photo you can post?  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Ditto.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> X, what is a mouse ear?  Do you have a photo you can post?  Thanks.


 


   Here is a picture. It has 2 round pieces at the top simulating Mickey Mouse ears.


----------



## SpudHarris

Hello guys, I've been off the forum for a while due to finding a set up that makes me extremely happy. Moddest in comparrison to some of you guys but that may help knowing that there are still improvements to be had in the future should I become bored with this set up. I am considering another headphone purchase and just wondered if you guys could offer your opinions. I've trusted your judgements till now and you have helped me get to where I am and I'm eternally grateful.
   
  My WA6 has EML Mesh 5U4G and Sylvania ''Bad Boys''. I feed it from a squeezebox into a DACmagic via coaxial and with my Beyer T1's out of the WA6 I'm in heaven..... So, I'm thinking of getting Denon AH-D7000's or AH-A100's what do you think? any users here?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, I can now see why they call them mouse ears.  How would you compare them to the "classic" Tung-sol BGRP's?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks. It represents years of hard work


 

 Does this mean your website, online order form, is still to come? Inspiring effort, Skylab!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Spud
   
  I have the Denons and the HD800s.  I split my listening time about 50/50.  While I prefer the comfort and soundstage of the HD800 I have to admit that the bass and punch of the D7000 makes me go for them when in the mood.  Also, since the D7000s are closed they leak a lot less sound which is a good thing esp at night when the significant other doesn't want to be bothered.
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Hello guys, I've been off the forum for a while due to finding a set up that makes me extremely happy. Moddest in comparrison to some of you guys but that may help knowing that there are still improvements to be had in the future should I become bored with this set up. I am considering another headphone purchase and just wondered if you guys could offer your opinions. I've trusted your judgements till now and you have helped me get to where I am and I'm eternally grateful.
> 
> My WA6 has EML Mesh 5U4G and Sylvania ''Bad Boys''. I feed it from a squeezebox into a DACmagic via coaxial and with my Beyer T1's out of the WA6 I'm in heaven..... So, I'm thinking of getting Denon AH-D7000's or AH-A100's what do you think? any users here?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, I can now see why they call them mouse ears.  How would you compare them to the "classic" Tung-sol BGRP's?


 
  They are not as smooth and silky as the BGRP. With my EML 5U4G Mesh they sound a little bit harsh in the highs but with the Tung-Sol 5U4G they match a lot better and actually sound very balanced. I clearly will place them behind the TS BGRP, Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base, TS 6F8G from my collection of tubes.
   
  Does anybody have experience with Brimar 6SN7 tubes? What is their sound characteristics?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Hello guys, I've been off the forum for a while due to finding a set up that makes me extremely happy. Moddest in comparrison to some of you guys but that may help knowing that there are still improvements to be had in the future should I become bored with this set up. I am considering another headphone purchase and just wondered if you guys could offer your opinions. I've trusted your judgements till now and you have helped me get to where I am and I'm eternally grateful.
> 
> My WA6 has EML Mesh 5U4G and Sylvania ''Bad Boys''. I feed it from a squeezebox into a DACmagic via coaxial and with my Beyer T1's out of the WA6 I'm in heaven..... So, I'm thinking of getting Denon AH-D7000's or AH-A100's what do you think? any users here?


 

 It depends of what you are looking for. It you want a close headphones then yes the D7000 are great but I would recommend you to perform some of the damping Markl mods and add the JMoney earpads. Now, it they do not have to be close headphones then I would go wit the HD800. The T1 are semi-open and have smaller soundstage and more base impact then the HD800 closer to a close headphone type. I personally think the HD800 are a better match for a tube amp.
  Just my 2 cents since I own all 3.
   
  Right now this is my order of preference out of my collection.
  1) HE-6 Zeus cable
  2) HD800 Complement cable. T1 Zeus cable.
  3) DX1000 Zeus cable
  4) D7000 stock cable. D2000 wooded APS V2 cable
  5) Edition 9 APS V2 cable.
   
  The Edition 9 is there mainly because of comfort not sound. For sound only they would be at 3 with the DX1000.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> They are not as smooth and silky as the BGRP. With my EML 5U4G Mesh they sound a little bit harsh in the highs but with the Tung-Sol 5U4G they match a lot better and actually sound very balanced. I clearly will place them behind the TS BGRP, Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base, TS 6F8G from my collection of tubes.
> 
> Does anybody have experience with Brimar 6SN7 tubes? What is their sound characteristics?


 

 Musicman, how does the TS 5U4G and mouse ear paring compare with the EML 5U4G and Tung-sol BGRP paring?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do have a high res version of that pic, but no way to post it...this is the best the posted version gets:


 


  Now that I can read the labels on the boxes all I can say is you are a lucky man.  Probably a broke one too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, I can now see why they call them mouse ears.  How would you compare them to the "classic" Tung-sol BGRP's?


 

 My opinion is mostly the same as musicman's.  They are not on the level of the TSRP.  They are clear, balanced and pretty detailed, but do not have the midrange magic or depth/layering of the TRSP.  The finesse just isn't there really, the sound seems a bit plain jane in direct comparison.  That is comparing them to the best though.  If you compare to other tubes at the same price level the story is different......
   
  What they _are_ is a great value, since you can find a pair for under $50 if you look carefully and they are a superior tube sonically to all of the 6SN7GTBs and quite a few of the 6SN7GTs in the same vintage period.  There are plenty of tubes that sound better of course, but they are expensive.  I think the the mouse ear is the last great "undiscovered" tube personally which hasn't had its prices inflated, but I see some eBay sellers already trying to change this......
   
  My primary reason for adding to musicman's comments is to pass on some information about this tube.  The mouse ear was manufactured directly after the round plate stopped production in the late 40's.  This tube was made into the early 50's.  What most people do NOT seem to know, however, is that the grey t-plate version of this tube that does NOT have the actual "mouse ears" is the exact same tube.  They dropped the mica spacers in favor of a simpler design, but sonically the tubes are no different from the ones with mouse ears. People also tend to mistake it for a russian tube, especially if the branding and marking have worn off because it really looks a lot like one.  What is great about this is that the price of these is very low because they are not a sought after tube.  Actual mouse ear tubes are now going for over a hundred dollars a pair.  The ones I bought which are "earless" I paid around $35 a pair for and they beat the crap out of any other tube you can buy for that price.  Now that I've found a rectifier that tames their top end I'm really glad I have the pairs I bought.  They don't compare to the TSRP or the bad boys, but they are good tubes in their own right and an easy recommendation for somebody looking to try their first 6SN7 without spending money on one of the "legendary" tubes right off the bat.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Does anybody have experience with Brimar 6SN7 tubes? What is their sound characteristics?


 

 I almost bought a pair from Upscale Audio when I picked up my Brimar rectifier.  They go for $100 a pair there.  But, I looked at my round plate tung sols and sylvania bad boys sitting in the tube box and told myself no.  If my rectifier is any indication of the Brimar sound it means they are mellow, velvety smooth, and laid back but not veiled.  Great for taming bright headphones, but that is for their rectifiers...... the same may not be true for the the driver tubes.  I've heard people say before they are warm and smooth though.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do have a high res version of that pic, but no way to post it...this is the best the posted version gets:


 

 Sweet! Your cheating by using the reflection on the left side to make your collection appear larger. [j/k]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm keep waiting for Skylabs surplus sale announcement.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> It depends of what you are looking for. It you want a close headphones then yes the D7000 are great but I would recommend you to perform some of the damping Markl mods and add the JMoney earpads. Now, it they do not have to be close headphones then I would go wit the HD800. The T1 are semi-open and have smaller soundstage and more base impact then the HD800 closer to a close headphone type. I personally think the HD800 are a better match for a tube amp.
> Just my 2 cents since I own all 3.
> 
> Right now this is my order of preference out of my collection.
> ...


 

 Many thanks for this. I may change my search based upon this. I'm not set on closed phones so I may try to audition some HD800's...


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I've got a stock WA2 on the way; I ordered it with just the stock tubes that Woo is including now.  I've read the WA2 tube rolling threads, and it looks like tube upgrades like the TS5998, etc., were already being talked about as scarce and expensive 2 years ago.
   
  I'm sure I'll be happy with the stock tubes for awhile, but I know I'll want to experiment eventually.  The tube upgrades on the Woo site are pretty expensive; I'm wondering what's still available these days for the WA2 without breaking the bank.
   
  I'm going to be looking for a slightly-warm-side-of-neutral sound for this amp, to contrast with my Meier Concerto.   
   
  From what I've read so far, tube combinations are almost infinite with this amp.  What tubes are WA2 users happy with these days?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I've got a stock WA2 on the way; I ordered it with just the stock tubes that Woo is including now.  I've read the WA2 tube rolling threads, and it looks like tube upgrades like the TS5998, etc., were already being talked about as scarce and expensive 2 years ago.
> 
> I'm sure I'll be happy with the stock tubes for awhile, but I know I'll want to experiment eventually.  The tube upgrades on the Woo site are pretty expensive; I'm wondering what's still available these days for the WA2 without breaking the bank.
> 
> ...


 

 The first tubes I rolled that made a great difference were the 6080 tubes. I replaced them with RCA 6AS7G. They're still pretty inexpensive--$15 each at AudioTubes.com. To me it gave the WA2's SQ more dimension and tempered the slightly cooler sounding amp with its stock tubes.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Musicman, how does the TS 5U4G and mouse ear paring compare with the EML 5U4G and Tung-sol BGRP paring?


 

 IMO the TS set is a little more aggresive, more kind of solid state sound but without getting 100% there obviously but I do like the deep fast bass. The EML/TS cobo is really smooth specially in the midrange.
  To be honest the EML/Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base is my favorite combination based on my listening test. About 3 weeks ago we have a meet. I did some tube rollingfor the guys and 2 of them had the same comments about this combination.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> It depends of what you are looking for. It you want a close headphones then yes the D7000 are great but I would recommend you to perform some of the damping Markl mods and add the JMoney earpads. Now, it they do not have to be close headphones then I would go wit the HD800. The T1 are semi-open and have smaller soundstage and more base impact then the HD800 closer to a close headphone type. I personally think the HD800 are a better match for a tube amp.
> Just my 2 cents since I own all 3.
> 
> Right now this is my order of preference out of my collection.
> ...


 


 I took out my DX1000 again after read you finding, thanks. Now approaching a local headfier which sellng his LCD-2, see if it's still available.


----------



## musicman59

AU7

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I almost bought a pair from Upscale Audio when I picked up my Brimar rectifier.  They go for $100 a pair there.  But, I looked at my round plate tung sols and sylvania bad boys sitting in the tube box and told myself no.  If my rectifier is any indication of the Brimar sound it means they are mellow, velvety smooth, and laid back but not veiled.  Great for taming bright headphones, but that is for their rectifiers...... the same may not be true for the the driver tubes.  I've heard people say before they are warm and smooth though.


 

 Yeap, I ordered yesterday the Brimar rectifiers from Upscale Audio and I am thinking in ordering the 5692 Zalytron. Do you have any experinece with these?
   
  I used to own the Rudistor RP-7 Lite and it came with 4 cryo-treated Brimar 12AU7 tubes. They sound very good but I would not classify them as warm and relaxed. Don't know if the 6SN7 sound different.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I took out my DX1000 again after read you finding, thanks. Now approaching a local headfier which sellng his LCD-2, see if it's still available.


 
  You should definitely get the LCD-2, ever since I received mine, both my D7000 and HD800 is back into their boxes and have not see daylight since.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> IMO the TS set is a little more aggresive, more kind of solid state sound but without getting 100% there obviously but I do like the deep fast bass. The EML/TS cobo is really smooth specially in the midrange.
> To be honest the EML/Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base is my favorite combination based on my listening test. About 3 weeks ago we have a meet. I did some tube rollingfor the guys and 2 of them had the same comments about this combination.


 

 Sylvania 6SN7WGT, really?  I'll look this up.  I have one pair of GEC 6AS7G's which I like the best as they seem very detailed but not harsh up top, but, the problem is that you can't find them anywhere these days and eventually I am going to have to replace them.  So, I'm looking for alternatives.  I'll try the Sylvania.  I'll also try the Brimar rectifier too.  Thanks.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You should definitely get the LCD-2, ever since I received mine, both my D7000 and HD800 is back into their boxes and have not see daylight since.


 


 Thanks jc, I'm waiting for the sellre's feedback...............................or I need to order a new pair from Audeze and keep long waiting.


----------



## mikemalter

I read the 6Moons review and they agree.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks jc, I'm waiting for the sellre's feedback...............................or I need to order a new pair from Audeze and keep long waiting.


 


  The wait is not that long anymore.  It is around 6 weeks.  I waited almost 3 months on mine and it is worth the wait.  BTW, happy New Year.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The wait is not that long anymore.  It is around 6 weeks.  I waited almost 3 months on mine and it is worth the wait.  BTW, happy New Year.


 
  Happy New Year to you, too! I ended up at the Hong Kong Lounge between 17th and 18th Avenues in the Richmond District of SF and all I could keep thinking of was "I can't wait until this 10-course meal is over so that I can listen to my Woo back at home." That is until the Peking Duck arrived with those fluffy steamed white buns. Oh sorry. Very OT.
   
  My headphones sound so much better in the morning. Must be because I haven't assaulted my ears yet. The LCD-2 sounds very intriguing. _"Save me bucks, that's what I says!"_


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Happy New Year to you, too! I ended up at the Hong Kong Lounge between 17th and 18th Avenues in the Richmond District of SF and all I could keep thinking of was "I can't wait until this 10-course meal is over so that I can listen to my Woo back at home." That is until the Peking Duck arrived with those fluffy steamed white buns. Oh sorry. Very OT.
> 
> My headphones sound so much better in the morning. Must be because I haven't assaulted my ears yet. The LCD-2 sounds very intriguing. _"Save me bucks, that's what I says!"_


 
   
  I have to try Hong Kong Lounge next time I'm in town, I usually go to Great Eastern for Chinese seafood.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am thinking in ordering the 5692 Zalytron. Do you have any experinece with these?


 


  I've never gotten to hear them myself.  Looks like they are made by CBS/Hytron, but I'm not sure if it is a simple re-brand or if the tube design differs.  The CBS is supposed to be the better and rarer of the 5692 tubes, but that is only talk I have read from others.  I know all the 5692's have a reputation for being very warm in the mids.
   
  Upscale Audio seems to take quite a bit of care in what they choose to sell, which does give some confidence.


----------



## Xcalibur255

jc9394, we're still waiting on that writeup on how the LCD-2 and WA22 sound together.    j/k of course, no pressure, but I would love to hear your thoughts on what you like/dislike about this setup sometime if you are willing and if you have found any tube combinations that seem to work well.
   
  It is still out on the horizon, but my intention is to upgrade what I have now to this combo when the money is there.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> jc9394, we're still waiting on that writeup on how the LCD-2 and WA22 sound together.    j/k of course, no pressure, but I would love to hear your thoughts on what you like/dislike about this setup sometime if you are willing and if you have found any tube combinations that seem to work well.
> 
> It is still out on the horizon, but my intention is to upgrade what I have now to this combo when the money is there.


 


  Did not have much time listening lately, those damn white stuff really kills me.  Finally it is warm enough for some melting, standing on top of the roof removing 3 feet deep snow is no fun.  I will have something next couple weeks.


----------



## dariusf

just got the upgraded GES and paired with my Baby O (HE60) is like hearing god's voice.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  far better in sound stage, detail, and far more holographic over Raptor/LCD-2 combo...
   
  ...not that the combo is bad sounding or anything (waiting for flames


----------



## grokit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dannie01*
> 
> 
> 
> ...






   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes I've been lusting after that combo for awhile, I am sure that if it wasn't so hard to ship it would have sold by now. Glad it's such a long drive, I don't need to spend that kind of cash ATM!
> 
> edit: wasn't that the one with the K1000? Now the WA5 is for sale alone.


 
   

 Update: Look's like it's still available both ways, here is the listing that includes the K1000:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/523628/fs-k1000-s-and-wooaudio-wa5-amp-pickup-from-11-20-meet-possible


----------



## Skylab

The Sylvania 6SN7WGT is one of the most underrated 6SN7 varieties there is.  It's a wonderful tube, one of my very favorite, and relatively easy to get in NOS for less than $100/pair.  Definitely worth seeking out, IMO.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks jc, I'm waiting for the sellre's feedback...............................or I need to order a new pair from Audeze and keep long waiting.


 

 Or you can get the HE-6 because your WA5 can power them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Sylvania 6SN7WGT is one of the most underrated 6SN7 varieties there is.  It's a wonderful tube, one of my very favorite, and relatively easy to get in NOS for less than $100/pair.  Definitely worth seeking out, IMO.


 


  Is this the brown base version?  I avoided the brownbase WGT because it was described by more than one person as fatiguing at the top end, which I'm sure is very headphone dependent.  From what I understand the brown bases and the other top getter sylvanias sound different from the bad boy t-plate tube, but a person only has so much money to try things out in the end....


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Is this the brown base version?  I avoided the brownbase WGT because it was described by more than one person as fatiguing at the top end, which I'm sure is very headphone dependent.  From what I understand the brown bases and the other top getter sylvanias sound different from the bad boy t-plate tube, but a person only has so much money to try things out in the end....


 

 Yes, the brown base ones for sure.  The WGTA black base tubes are not nearly as good, IMO (and were made much later).


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, the brown base ones for sure.  The WGTA black base tubes are not nearly as good, IMO (and were made much later).


 


   Dito!


----------



## Icenine2

Has everyone seen the Cavalli Liquid Fire amp coming out this May?  Sweet looking for sure http://cavalliaudio.com/lf.php  I read up on it and at CanJam some were going nuts over it w/the LCD-2's http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/canjam2010/2.html
   
  Will this obsession ever stop?


----------



## Audiogalore

I just received a EML 5U4G from TubeUSA for my WA5 that is about a 1/2" taller than my existing EML 5U4G that I had ordered from Woo 3 to 4 months ago for my WA-6SE.
   
  Is there a difference that I need to be aware of before attempting to pair them with my WA5 PSU.


----------



## wesleyxawcn9

indydieselnut said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> WA6SE maxxed w/Sophia......in my signature! I guess I can't claim "maxxed" anymore since Jack has added the teflon tube sockets to the option list
> ...






It's very detailed, Many thanks to your description! It's helpful to me, I understand this part.


----------



## sferic

Holy guacamole! What a tube collection, at this point you should get tax exempt status as a church.


----------



## Icenine2

Audio,
   
  Are those carbon fiber shelves the amps are on?  Why are the amps covered in glass?  Nice Levinson gear.  I loved my 38.  Great preamp.
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> I just received a EML 5U4G from TubeUSA for my WA5 that is about a 1/2" taller than my existing EML 5U4G that I had ordered from Woo 3 to 4 months ago for my WA-6SE.
> 
> Is there a difference that I need to be aware of before attempting to pair them with my WA5 PSU.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The wait is not that long anymore.  It is around 6 weeks.  I waited almost 3 months on mine and it is worth the wait.  BTW, happy New Year.


 


   I'm in the pre-order list, wait for your impression with the WA22 until the white is all melted and you're free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have to try Hong Kong Lounge next time I'm in town, I usually go to Great Eastern for Chinese seafood.


 


   Back to HK and have real delicious seafood with cold beer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Or you can get the HE-6 because your WA5 can power them.


 


   Thanks, ss but it's rarely find in the market and the most important point is *$*.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> I just received a EML 5U4G from TubeUSA for my WA5 that is about a 1/2" taller than my existing EML 5U4G that I had ordered from Woo 3 to 4 months ago for my WA-6SE.
> 
> Is there a difference that I need to be aware of before attempting to pair them with my WA5 PSU.


 

 That is strange, but I have read that EML keeps changing these tubes. Anyway the EML 5U4G should have the same specs and the fact that they are rectifier tube's from EML 5U4G should be ok.
  If you have any doubts E-Mail George (tubes USA) and ask him about it.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Has everyone seen the Cavalli Liquid Fire amp coming out this May?  Sweet looking for sure http://cavalliaudio.com/lf.php  I read up on it and at CanJam some were going nuts over it w/the LCD-2's http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/canjam2010/2.html
> 
> Will this obsession ever stop?


 

 For $2750 I will take a WA5LE any day of the week over that amp. What the review is really caring on about is the LCD-2 and that it matches well with that amp because of the watts to ohm and that is also not very impressive when compared to the WA5/LE. And don't forget the WA5/LE has unlimited bandwidth.
  There is no question that the LCD-2 or even better HE-6 are great headphones.


----------



## sachu

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> For $2750 I will take a WA5LE any day of the week over that amp. What the review is really caring on about is the LCD-2 and that it matches well with that amp because of the watts to ohm and that is also not very impressive when compared to the WA5/LE. And don't forget the WA5/LE has unlimited bandwidth.
> There is no question that the LCD-2 or even better HE-6 are great headphones.


 

 Let's see..have you heard the LIquid Fire amp?..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Edit: And unlimited bandwidth on the WA5LE??  lol


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





sachu said:


> Let's see..have you heard the LIquid Fire amp?..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  First understand that imo Cavalli Audio claim to fame is with there DIY gears.
  No seeing that the amp is still in production nobody has heard the final production model. If you know anything about what those specs mean you would understand your post is point less based on nothing except you and your love for CA after looking at what you have uesd. However I really wasn't commenting on the amp but more so on what the reviewer was saying, and that was that LCD-2 headphones where being used with a version of the LF amp, plus the LF amp says it outputs 3 watts @ 32 Ohm so that probably pairs well with the LCD-2 and I am sure CA would loved the idea of having Audeze use the prototype amp with the very good LCD-2. I would really question if the LF amp would power the HE-6 as the WA5/LE does so very well and for less money than the LF amp, the WA5/LE power supply is clearly in a different league.
   
  Yes the WA5/LE is unlimited bandwidth for 2 Ch analog, this infor came directly from Jack Wu. Once more you show your lack of knowledge and with nothing to back up anything you are saying.
   
  I would suggest you spend a little more time reading and less time trying to be cute.


----------



## leesure

Well, my WA6 SE is unboxed and the tubes are burnin'! 

Way too early for conclusions, but out of the box it it detailed, quick and punchy through my LCD's. It seems a little bright for my tastes, but I'm goingbtonlet it really burn in before tube rolling. 

If it stays a little top heavy, does anyone have suggestions for warmer tubes? I just have the 'base' rectifier and drivers. The drivers they sent are NOS Sylvania's. 

Also, what I could find by searching this thread, most people seem to be getting the biggest sound differences from replacing the rectifier...is that correct or will replacing the drivers make the larger difference?


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> That is strange, but I have read that EML keeps changing these tubes. Anyway the EML 5U4G should have the same specs and the fact that they are rectifier tube's from EML 5U4G should be ok.
> If you have any doubts E-Mail George (tubes USA) and ask him about it.


 

 Thank you sillysally, I've already spoken to George about issue and his reply was the same as yours that they are always changing but should not sound any different.
   
  Only problem it just kind of look funny one being taller!


----------



## musicman59

I just got yesterday my NOS Brimar 5R4GY rectifier tubes. I switched them with my EML 5U4G Mesh tubes and let them warm up for about 1 hour. The power tubes remaind the EML 300B Mesh and the drivers I was using at the moment were Ken-Rad V231 BGSP.
   
  I used my HD800 witgh Complement cable to listen adn I was very surprise wi tthe wuality of the sound I was hearing. The bass was veru tight and fast, the midrage was very textured and natural an dthe highs while they were not very extended they were nice enough to complement the sound perfectly.
   
  IMO for $100 this NOS Brimar 5R4GY are clear winners in my book.


----------



## kchew

Looks like the Brimar 5R4GY is a must try rectifer for Woo amps. I've been looking for a cheaper EML substitue as well and a friend suggested I try the Mullard CV378/GZ37. Has anyone tried this tube?
   
  I've had fun rolling a few 6SN7s into my WA22 with the EML 5U4G mesh plate and Tung Sol 5998 hooked up to HD800, here are my impressions:
   
  Tung Sol Mouse Ear: As Xcalibur255 mentioned, it's a plain jane tube, but there are no significant weaknesses. It's a fairly neutral and detailed tube with some midrange sweetness. Still much better than the stock GE 6SN7GTB.
   
  RCA Grey Glass: Bass is plentiful and punchy, but from the upper midrange onwards it's a bit recessed. It seems weak on the attack, decay seems to stretch out and imaging is slightly fuzzy. Still, it's wide soundstage and smooth sound makes it a great tube to chill out with.
   
  Brimar 6SN7GT black plate clear glass black base: I paid too much for these, they are roughly on par with the Tung Sol Mouse Ear with slightly recessed midrange. Don't bother with these. Note that they are supposedly different from the famed Brimar CV1988 with brown base and black glass, so be careful.
   
  JAN Raytheon VT231 flat plate: It sounds pretty solid state with great speed, tight bass and sparkly treble. It's very slightly sibilant with the HD800, but I seem to have high tolerance for treble so it's no biggie to me. Soundstage is slightly narrower than the RCA Grey Glass but has more depth. Overall a darn nice tube that's surprisingly musical yet detailed.
   
  Tung Sol Round Plate Round Mica: These were NOS and I had only spent 10 hours on them before sending them to my friend for testing. But gosh do they image fantastically well. The RCA Grey Glass has a slightly wider soundstage but these not-broken-in-yet tubes have great depth and 3D feel. They don't sound harsh to me, but when I swapped out the Tung Sol 5998 for the untouched GEC 6080, I can see why Mike complained they are bright. I can't wait for them to come back and burn in together with the GEC 6080.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> That is strange, but I have read that EML keeps changing these tubes. Anyway the EML 5U4G should have the same specs and the fact that they are rectifier tube's from EML 5U4G should be ok.
> If you have any doubts E-Mail George (tubes USA) and ask him about it.


 

 I have a pair of EML on order with Jack.  He told me that they have changed their current production model and improved it.  I had to replace mine as it went poof after I changed power tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a pair of EML on order with Jack.  He told me that they have changed their current production model and improved it.  I had to replace mine as it went poof after I changed power tubes.


 
  Hi mikemalter. I wish y'all success in this weekend's N.Cal/Bay Area Meet!!!
   
  Wow. Was there a reason for this _tank of a tube_ going POOF? Judging from the many posts I've read it seems that these more expensive new-production tubes, e.g., Princess, EML, are more prone to failure.


----------



## baka1969

Well I've been rolling tubes for my 6SE and it's been interesting to say the least. When I got the amp it was shipped with a pair of 6EW7 and a 274B rectifier made in China. I first ordered a pair each of the 6DE7 (RCA) and the 6FD7 fat bottles (unmarked military) with a Sylvania 5U4G rectifier. The 6FD7 had a hum (more on that later) and the 6DE7 was quite sibilant. So I returned to the 6EW7. I put in the 6DE7 tubes a few more times and they kept sounding sibilant to me. I put about 20 hours on them. I decided to order another pair of 6FD7s (same unmarked military) from Jack and when they arrived they had the same humming as the first ones did. The hum sounded like the intro chord of Pink Floyd's "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" So I decided to see if it was a problem with my system. I changed ICs and it was the same. I plugged my iPod in with a mini to RCA cable and the hum disappeared. The iPod being "off the grid". So Frank I and myself were trouble shooting the issue and it I tried a cheater plug to see if it was a ground loop issue. Behold the hum was gone. I called the original supplier and gave back the refund they gave to me when I told them about the humming 6FD7 tubes they sent out. So I listened to the 6FD7 fat bottle tubes for a while and, for now, they're a have a bit of sizzle in the highs. Both pairs. I'll give them more burn time before I make a final judgment on the 6FD7. While giving back the refund I ordered a pair of 6DR7 (Sylvania) tubes and they came in today. Crap I got a bad tube with one of them having bad static. I've decided to deal with someone else and ordered a single 6DR7 (the only one on stock) and hopefully they'll be a clean and a close match. So far I like the 6EW7 the best. To me it seems to have the best tonal balance of the ones I've heard. I'm listening to the 6DE7 and it doesn't have the same bass impact and richness. I also like the imaging better on the 6EW7. I'll A/B the two a bit more to get a better comparison. I thought about getting the Tung Sol 5U4G to accompany EDIT: only the 6FD7 fat bottle tube had the ground loop issue. None of the others display that problem.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi mikemalter. I wish y'all success in this weekend's N.Cal/Bay Area Meet!!!
> 
> Wow. Was there a reason for this _tank of a tube_ going POOF? Judging from the many posts I've read it seems that these more expensive new-production tubes, e.g., Princess, EML, are more prone to failure.


 

  
  Clayton,
   
  Don't know why the higher-end new production rectifiers are having problems.  I have already blown one Sophia, and now this EML.  I posted a while back after I crashed my EML as I thought it might have been the WA22 itself, but several posters said they had blown EML's and a few of them had blown more than one.  It may be quality control, your guess is as good as mine.  At any rate, I ordered a spare EML as I am going to be tube rolling more than not, and I really don't care for the Sophia.
   
  Just got an email from Jack and the new EML's have cleared customs but they will not make it in time for the meet.  Do you want to go?  I could give you a ride if you want.


----------



## mikemalter

I posting this to get some advice for the head-fi meet this Saturday in San Francisco.  I've never been to one before, and am bringing my WA22 and wanted to get as much advice as possible from people who have brought equipment before.
   

 Should I put a piece of tape over the off knob?
 What should the protocol be for allowing people to try their headphones.  Should they turn the volume down before they unplug?
 Should I expect people to plug and unplug 'phones and adjust volume without asking me first?
 Should I have a sign up?  If so, what should it say?
   
  Any other advice from previous displayers would be greatly appreciated as I am a little apprehensive about having my equipment out and having never attended one of these before.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## indydieselnut

I just wanted to celebrate with my fellow Woo Audio owners that "I'm baaaaaack!"  I was fairly active in the first pages of this thread when I had my black WA6SE.  I sold it and went through a roller-coaster of amps, picking up a WA6 along the way and then selling it.  As I've settled down, I wanted to get back into a Woo amp.  I toyed with the idea of just going with the WA5LE but decided to return to my "first love" and got a completely maxxed WA6SE in silver.  I'm feeding it with my source of choice, a Rega Saturn.  I'm using HD650's right now but had a chance to spend some time with the HD800's and see them in my future.  This is a lousy picture, but I wanted to share my new beauty with the Woo family!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Welcome back.  Looks very inviting.  What is the stand that your woo is sitting on?
  
  Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I just wanted to celebrate with my fellow Woo Audio owners that "I'm baaaaaack!"  I was fairly active in the first pages of this thread when I had my black WA6SE.  I sold it and went through a roller-coaster of amps, picking up a WA6 along the way and then selling it.  As I've settled down, I wanted to get back into a Woo amp.  I toyed with the idea of just going with the WA5LE but decided to return to my "first love" and got a completely maxxed WA6SE in silver.  I'm feeding it with my source of choice, a Rega Saturn.  I'm using HD650's right now but had a chance to spend some time with the HD800's and see them in my future.  This is a lousy picture, but I wanted to share my new beauty with the Woo family!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I posting this to get some advice for the head-fi meet this Saturday in San Francisco.  I've never been to one before, and am bringing my WA22 and wanted to get as much advice as possible from people who have brought equipment before.
> 
> 
> Should I put a piece of tape over the off knob?
> ...


 

 At most of the meets I have been to, people have always asked before plugging in their own headphones.  Turning the volume down and then swapping should be fine.  But if you are uncomfortable that people might swap without you around, then by all means make a little sign with your expectations.  You want to be able to be relaxed.  Meets are awesome.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I just wanted to celebrate with my fellow Woo Audio owners that "I'm baaaaaack!"  I was fairly active in the first pages of this thread when I had my black WA6SE.  I sold it and went through a roller-coaster of amps, picking up a WA6 along the way and then selling it.  As I've settled down, I wanted to get back into a Woo amp.  I toyed with the idea of just going with the WA5LE but decided to return to my "first love" and got a completely maxxed WA6SE in silver.  I'm feeding it with my source of choice, a Rega Saturn.  I'm using HD650's right now but had a chance to spend some time with the HD800's and see them in my future.  This is a lousy picture, but I wanted to share my new beauty with the Woo family!


 


 Welcome back, indy. Door of Woo's family is always open.


----------



## indydieselnut

Thanks Dannie!  
   
  WindyCityCy - the stand is a piece of junk granite I had cut to dimensions years ago.  I recycled some old Aluminum cones and feet, the cones are attached to the granite with blu-tac.  Total cost = $15.  I've always liked it because it has some mass and it's easy to level.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I just wanted to celebrate with my fellow Woo Audio owners that "I'm baaaaaack!"  I was fairly active in the first pages of this thread when I had my black WA6SE.  I sold it and went through a roller-coaster of amps, picking up a WA6 along the way and then selling it.  As I've settled down, I wanted to get back into a Woo amp.  I toyed with the idea of just going with the WA5LE but decided to return to my "first love" and got a completely maxxed WA6SE in silver.  I'm feeding it with my source of choice, a Rega Saturn.  I'm using HD650's right now but had a chance to spend some time with the HD800's and see them in my future.  This is a lousy picture, but I wanted to share my new beauty with the Woo family!
> 
> 
> From a fellow WA6SE (in black) owner, welcome back!


----------



## Audiogalore

Just thought I would display my newly acquired WA-5, great sounding amp. I will write a more a detail article once I have been to able burn some tubes in and found the ideal sweet sound.
   
  Enjoy music!
   
  !


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Just thought I would display my newly acquired WA-5, great sounding amp. I will write a more a detail article once I have been to able burn some tubes in and found the ideal sweet sound.
> 
> Enjoy music!
> 
> !


 

 Congrats, now you really have something.
  I am guessing you take off the hood on your WA5 when in use.
  Cesar called me about your EML 5U4G's and I am sure he can tell you all about my setup. I see your using the new,new re-redesigned EML.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Congrats, now you really have something.
> I am guessing you take off the hood on your WA5 when in use.
> Cesar called me about your EML 5U4G's and I am sure he can tell you all about my setup. I see your using the new,new re-redesigned EML.


 

 All WireWorld cabled out and really performs quite well with my Headphone collections especially the K 1000. Yes I remove the amp cover when playing, I am scare not having my tubes protected when not used, Cesar told me about your great setup and I thank you for all your input.
   
  As far as the EML 5U5G, I was using one with my WA-6SE and decided to pair up with a recently purchased one from Tube USA in my WA5.
   
  The taller one as you can see in the photo is the new one from Tube USA and is about a 1/2" taller than the shorter EML tube to the left in the photo. The shorter one was purchased from Woo about 4 months ago.
   
  Enjoy music!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> The taller one as you can see in the photo is the new one from Tube USA and is about a 1/2" taller than the shorter EML tube to the left in the photo. The shorter one was purchased from Woo about 4 months ago.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 
  I wonder why EML went from tall to shorter and then back to tall again. The taller one certainly looks impressive with its rather angular shoulders. They both sound excellent though.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Just thought I would display my newly acquired WA-5, great sounding amp. I will write a more a detail article once I have been to able burn some tubes in and found the ideal sweet sound.
> 
> Enjoy music!
> 
> !


 


   


  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Congrats, now you really have something.
> I am guessing you take off the hood on your WA5 when in use.
> Cesar called me about your EML 5U4G's and I am sure he can tell you all about my setup. I see your using the new,new re-redesigned EML.


 

 Where did you get the acrylic over? it a great idea when it is not in use.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Where did you get the acrylic over? it a great idea when it is not in use.


 
  It looks like a perfect case for a jewel heist! (A Woo Heist?) Carefully laser-cut a large opening in the acrylic cover and remove items. Make sure you don't focus the laser beam on those tubes!


----------



## dminches

That acrylic looks like a turntable plinth cover.


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

musicman59: In Nor Cal there is a company called Tapp Plastics that makes custom acrylic stuff, so I am sure you could fine someplace similar wherever you live.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Where did you get the acrylic over? it a great idea when it is not in use.


 
  I've tried several different vendors, however you are better off trying someone local.


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Where did you get the acrylic over? it a great idea when it is not in use.


 

 You can also try Gingko Audio, they will do custom covers for any piece of gear. I use them on several of my components, really nice workmanship.
   
  http://www.gingkoaudio.com/claravu.html
   
  Happy Listening!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Just thought I would display my newly acquired WA-5, great sounding amp. I will write a more a detail article once I have been to able burn some tubes in and found the ideal sweet sound.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 


 Congrats Audiogalore. A very nice set up indeed.


----------



## jc9394

Hey Danny, how's the mod? Are you close to complete?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hey Danny, how's the mod? Are you close to complete?


 

 Hi John. I stopped after swapped the 32 stepped Shallco attenuator, too busy to start other mod. I would like to swap the power filtering caps but don't like much about Jensen so still looking for something better.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Congrats Audiogalore. A very nice set up indeed.


 
  Thank you dannie01 it really took allot experimenting before landing  that marque standard of audio excellence!  I am quite please with the sound and must say very well balanced throughout my headphone collection.
   
  Enjoy music!


----------



## khollister

Now that everything is burned in, I put some RCA 6AS7G's and Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's in to go with my 50's vintage Valvo D-getter EZ80's. Now we're talking! I put the RSA HR-2 back in for a bit and couldn't stand to listen to it compared to the WA2. 
   
  Great job, Jack! The WA2 is a fantastic amp. I think things are pretty settled for a while - well, there are the Beyer T1's I'm now thinking about


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> All WireWorld cabled out and really performs quite well with my Headphone collections especially the K 1000. Yes I remove the amp cover when playing, I am scare not having my tubes protected when not used, Cesar told me about your great setup and I thank you for all your input.
> 
> As far as the EML 5U5G, I was using one with my WA-6SE and decided to pair up with a recently purchased one from Tube USA in my WA5.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes Cesar told me all about your EML's.
  Yes I am sure your T1000's sound great in your WA5, some have said the power supply of the WA5 is over kill and yes I agree except when you use the T1000's or the HE-6's then you can really appreciate the power of the WA5.
  I just ordered a headphone cable for my HE-6's from DHC so I am afraid I will have to wait on trying the WW cables.
   
  ss


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes Cesar told me all about your EML's.
> Yes I am sure your T1000's sound great in your WA5, some have said the power supply of the WA5 is over kill and yes I agree except when you use the T1000's or the HE-6's then you can really appreciate the power of the WA5.
> I just ordered a headphone cable for my HE-6's from DHC so I am afraid I will have to wait on trying the WW cables.
> 
> ss


 

 You bet the K1000 certainly sparkles with the WA5.
   
  As far as the WireWorld cable it really does make not little but a huge different!
   
  Enjoy music!


----------



## Icenine2

That is the same EML 5U tube I bought from TubesUSA a few months back.
  
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> All WireWorld cabled out and really performs quite well with my Headphone collections especially the K 1000. Yes I remove the amp cover when playing, I am scare not having my tubes protected when not used, Cesar told me about your great setup and I thank you for all your input.
> 
> As far as the EML 5U5G, I was using one with my WA-6SE and decided to pair up with a recently purchased one from Tube USA in my WA5.
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

Can anyone tell me the rough length of the umbilical for the WA 6SE? I am hoping to set up with the two enclosures on shelves above and below each other instead of side by side.

Should be picking it up tomorrow, and yes very excited to get this amp and join you owners! 

Thanks!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Can anyone tell me the rough length of the umbilical for the WA 6SE? I am hoping to set up with the two enclosures on shelves above and below each other instead of side by side.
> 
> Should be picking it up tomorrow, and yes very excited to get this amp and join you owners!
> 
> ...


 
  Stretching it out straight, it's about 9"-10" long.  It allows you to place the two units only up to 3 or 4 inches apart on the same level.  However, if you contact Jack Woo, he may have longer ones available.  They are not cheap, though; I inquired awhile ago about getting one--he said that he had one 24" long that I believe was selling for $120.00.  They may be able to make custom lengths, but I think the price might be steep.


----------



## shipsupt

red jacket mike said:


> Stretching it out straight, it's about 9"-10" long.  It allows you to place the two units only up to 3 or 4 inches apart on the same level.  However, if you contact Jack Woo, he may have longer ones available.  They are not cheap, though; I inquired awhile ago about getting one--he said that he had one 24" long that I believe was selling for $120.00.  They may be able to make custom lengths, but I think the price might be steep.




Perfect, thanks! Jack was my back up. I'll have to check on alternate arrangements or suck it up and get a custom made up.

Cheers!


----------



## Hi-Five

Two weeks so far with my WA6SE...
   
  Holy crap, I never knew my records could sound this good...simply an amazing amp.  I had a Channel Islands VHP-2 which I thought was a great value, but I would get fatigued with some album/hp combinations. 4 to 5 hours a night and I haven't been fatigued yet by the Woo, and it's barely broken in!
   
  I can't wait to hear this thing when it settles!
   
  Thank you Head-Fi for the guidance to bring me into the light!!!


----------



## shipsupt

Proud new owner of a WA 6SE! Fired it up tonight and enjoying!

I had the opportunity to compare the 6 and the 6SE at the bay area meet. The experience left me knowing the SE was for me. As luck would have it the meet left another Bay Area Head-Fi'er looking to move on to something new and just a few days later the deal was done and the Woo came home with me.

Looking forward to reading 562 pages of input here while listening!


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Proud new owner of a WA 6SE! Fired it up tonight and enjoying!
> 
> I had the opportunity to compare the 6 and the 6SE at the bay area meet. The experience left me knowing the SE was for me. As luck would have it the meet left another Bay Area Head-Fi'er looking to move on to something new and just a few days later the deal was done and the Woo came home with me.
> 
> Looking forward to reading 562 pages of input here while listening!


 
   
   
  I too bought a WA 6SE, with upgrades and Sophia two weeks ago! I use it with Apple Lossless, AKG 702, and Apogee duet as DAC. 
   
  I have been listening to it for for 5-6 hours a day for the last two weeks. This is my first headphone/amp system, and I can't imagine how it could sound any better. 
   
  I don't think I will be investing in any other desktop amp in the future..perhaps something very portable to take with me..


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I enjoyed my WA6SE while I had it; i've recently sold it looking for a slightly warmer, laid back sound, so I have a WA2 on the way.  (Black, stock.)  I'm hoping it will complement and contrast with my Meier Concerto.
   
  This might be a record for the fastest completion of a Woo amp; I ordered and paid last Monday, and it is being shipped out today.  
   
  I know that the WA2 is an older model that is still quite popular, so possibly they keep a few in various stages of assembly so orders can be completed faster.  
   
  I'm guessing that I will be mostly using my LCD-2s and D7000s with the Concerto, and my HD800s with the WA2, but we'll see.


----------



## bergnerm

That is one nice setup that you've got there, Audiogalore. But you definitely need some track lighting to individually spotlight each of the WA5 components!


----------



## Icenine2

RSA Elgar power conditioner mentioned in Tone Magazine with Woo 5
   
http://www.tonepublications.com/blog/the-elgar-from-rsa-makes-its-debut/


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I enjoyed my WA6SE while I had it; i've recently sold it looking for a slightly warmer, laid back sound, so I have a WA2 on the way.  (Black, stock.)  I'm hoping it will complement and contrast with my Meier Concerto.
> 
> I'm guessing that I will be mostly using my LCD-2s and D7000s with the Concerto, and my HD800s with the WA2, but we'll see.


 

 Interesting to see this, RJM. I'm working through a similar decision -- thinking of replacing my WA6SE with a WA2 with the idea that the latter will have more distinct differences vs. my Concerto. In my case, I'd be using my soon-to-arrive LCD-2s and LA2000 Lites with the Concerto, T1 with the WA2, and then deciding which of the RS-1s and HF-2s to keep, with the added decision of whether to keep a Mapletree around specifically for my RS-1s.
   
  My head hurts...


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Interesting to see this, RJM. I'm working through a similar decision -- thinking of replacing my WA6SE with a WA2 with the idea that the latter will have more distinct differences vs. my Concerto. In my case, I'd be using my soon-to-arrive LCD-2s and LA2000 Lites with the Concerto, T1 with the WA2, and then deciding which of the RS-1s and HF-2s to keep, with the added decision of whether to keep a Mapletree around specifically for my RS-1s.
> 
> My head hurts...


 
  Well, the nice part of this changeover is that I'm using a Stage DAC (which I like a lot); it has multiple, switchable inputs, so I can connect my Mac Mini, and also a Marantz CD player (rarely used these days).  And, it has two sets of outputs, so I can run both the WA2 and the Concerto.  Should make for some easy A/B comparisons between amps and/or phones.
   
  Also, I had kind of reached the limits of tube rolling with the WA6SE (at least, without getting into adapters, etc.).  The WA2 will have a lot more options in that area.


----------



## Skylab

Yup, you can spend a bundle tube rolling the WA2


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Well, the nice part of this changeover is that I'm using a Stage DAC (which I like a lot); it has multiple, switchable inputs, so I can connect my Mac Mini, and also a Marantz CD player (rarely used these days).  And, it has two sets of outputs, so I can run both the WA2 and the Concerto.  Should make for some easy A/B comparisons between amps and/or phones.
> 
> Also, I had kind of reached the limits of tube rolling with the WA6SE (at least, without getting into adapters, etc.).  The WA2 will have a lot more options in that area.


 
   
  I just acquired a couple of NOS Mullard 6080/CV2984 from the U.K. that are so microphonic that they pick up the vibration of my footsteps, and I am a light stepper. You should have heard one of them hum like crazy after I sneezed. It was sort of a zing! sound. Those Mullard 6080s make my WA2 sound very bright, analytical, and almost ss. I actually prefer the Tung-Sol 6AS7 tubes in the WA2--even the RCA 6AS7s sound more musical to my ear than the Mullard 6080s. The rectifiers are Mullard EZ81 and the 6922s are Mullard CV2493/6922.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> I just acquired a couple of NOS Mullard 6080/CV2984 from the U.K. that are so microphonic that they pick up the vibration of my footsteps, and I am a light stepper. You should have heard one of them hum like crazy after I sneezed. It was sort of a zing! sound. Those Mullard 6080s make my WA2 sound very bright, analytical, and almost ss. I actually prefer the Tung-Sol 6AS7 tubes in the WA2--even the RCA 6AS7s sound more musical to my ear than the Mullard 6080s. The rectifiers are Mullard EZ81 and the 6922s are Mullard CV2493/6922.


 
  I ordered the WA2 with just the stock tubes, but I also have ordered a pair of RCA 6AS7s from Audiotubes.com, just to have something else to try right away.  $15.00 each.  Eventually I'm sure I will want to try more.  
   
  I would say a priority for me, though, even over sound signature, would be tubes that are totally silent.  I am a fan of a completely black background (Thus the Meier Concerto).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> I ordered the WA2 with just the stock tubes, but I also have ordered a pair of RCA 6AS7s from Audiotubes.com, just to have something else to try right away.  $15.00 each.  Eventually I'm sure I will want to try more.
> 
> I would say a priority for me, though, even over sound signature, would be tubes that are totally silent.  I am a fan of a completely black background (Thus the Meier Concerto).


 
   
  I also got my RCA 6AS7s from Audiotubes.com. Those are pretty quiet in my system. The Meier Concerto is an ss amp so naturally it is completely silent, am I right? I also own an SPL Auditor which is absolutely stunning--imo. Perhaps my next amp will be the Concerto.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I also got my RCA 6AS7s from Audiotubes.com. Those are pretty quiet in my system. The Meier Concerto is an ss amp so naturally it is completely silent, am I right? I also own an SPL Auditor which is absolutely stunning--imo. Perhaps my next amp will be the Concerto.


 

 Yes, SS and completely silent.  So much so that every Concerto review I've read mentions it.  I also want the tube sound occasionally, though, and I know there might be a tiny amount of noise associated with it, so it's nice to have both options.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Yes, SS and completely silent.  So much so that every Concerto review I've read mentions it.  I also want the tube sound occasionally, though, and I know there might be a tiny amount of noise associated with it, so it's nice to have both options.


 

 I see. Then hopefully those two amps will be the best of both worlds for you! Congratulations on your WA2 purchase. By the way, I just got a few Mullard EZ80s from the U.K. with the rare square getter. I hope those will warm up my WA2.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Well, the nice part of this changeover is that I'm using a Stage DAC (which I like a lot); it has multiple, switchable inputs, so I can connect my Mac Mini, and also a Marantz CD player (rarely used these days).  And, it has two sets of outputs, so I can run both the WA2 and the Concerto.  Should make for some easy A/B comparisons between amps and/or phones.


 


  I added a Mapletree LR1 with four inputs and two outputs for exactly this reason... and to take the need for switchable inputs out of the equation when deciding on new gear.  It's made A/Bing almost too easy, thereby fueling the upgradeitis I thought I'd gotten a handle on... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I was worried about adding another unit to the signal chain, but I've noticed absolutely no degradation from adding the LR1.


----------



## jackkk

I've just bought a Beyer T1. I'm interested in wooaudio amp, but i have only 600$ for it, so i can't take a Woo2. Between Woo3 and  Woo 6, which one would be the winner ? Woo3 is OTL, and not the WOO6. Woo3 is near a Woo2 more than a Woo6 ?
  Thx a lot for your answers


----------



## shipsupt

Jack can indeed provide a 24" umbilical for about $110.  Turns out that is the exact length I need, so I didn't ask about any other custom.  He generously offered to take my stock cable back and reduce the cost to about $80, but I've elected to keep it in case I change my set up in the future.  I ordered it today, in the mean time I found a place for the two units to sit side by each until it arrives.

  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Can anyone tell me the rough length of the umbilical for the WA 6SE? I am hoping to set up with the two enclosures on shelves above and below each other instead of side by side.
> 
> Should be picking it up tomorrow, and yes very excited to get this amp and join you owners!
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Stretching it out straight, it's about 9"-10" long.  It allows you to place the two units only up to 3 or 4 inches apart on the same level.  However, if you contact Jack Woo, he may have longer ones available.  They are not cheap, though; I inquired awhile ago about getting one--he said that he had one 24" long that I believe was selling for $120.00.  They may be able to make custom lengths, but I think the price might be steep.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I enjoyed my WA6SE while I had it; i've recently sold it looking for a slightly warmer, laid back sound, so I have a WA2 on the way.  (Black, stock.)  I'm hoping it will complement and contrast with my Meier Concerto.
> 
> This might be a record for the fastest completion of a Woo amp; I ordered and paid last Monday, and it is being shipped out today.
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Interesting to see this, RJM. I'm working through a similar decision -- thinking of replacing my WA6SE with a WA2 with the idea that the latter will have more distinct differences vs. my Concerto. In my case, I'd be using my soon-to-arrive LCD-2s and LA2000 Lites with the Concerto, T1 with the WA2, and then deciding which of the RS-1s and HF-2s to keep, with the added decision of whether to keep a Mapletree around specifically for my RS-1s.
> 
> My head hurts...


 

 My WA2 is warmer/tubey sounding (especially with my 5998 Tung-Sol power tubes) than my Concerto. But I wouldn't dismiss the WA2 for the Concerto for driving the LCD-2s. You might prefer the former.


----------



## Icenine2

Get the WA6.
  
  Quote: 





jackkk said:


> I've just bought a Beyer T1. I'm interested in wooaudio amp, but i have only 600$ for it, so i can't take a Woo2. Between Woo3 and  Woo 6, which one would be the winner ? Woo3 is OTL, and not the WOO6. Woo3 is near a Woo2 more than a Woo6 ?
> Thx a lot for your answers


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Get the WA6.


 

 For the 600 ohm T1s, I would suggest hearing both first (but my $ is for the WA3).


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> For the 600 ohm T1s, I would suggest hearing both first (but my $ is for the WA3).




X2, WA3 does very well with high impedance phones. Just keep in mind not to get a low impedance phone in the future.


----------



## jackkk

I've read that the WOO3 has more a tubey sound than the woo6, and is laid back. Hard to choose... but my preference is too for the woo3 (I've only high impedance headphones at home)


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> That is one nice setup that you've got there, Audiogalore. But you definitely need some track lighting to individually spotlight each of the WA5 components!


 


  Thank you, Ill try better lighting so that everyone can enjoy the finer detail.


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Any Woo ninjas here know which Woo amp would like the LCDs best? From what I can gather reading here, it's the either the 6-SE or the WA2. I'm looking for a good tube amp for them, this the right place to be?


----------



## Skylab

The WA2 is great with the LCD-2, IMHO. I also like it with my WA6 maxxed, though. Both amps are good. If you have OTHER headphones to consider, then the WA6 and 6SE will be better if you have other low impedance dynamic cans; the WA2 if your other cans are high impedance.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> Any Woo ninjas here know which Woo amp would like the LCDs best? From what I can gather reading here, it's the either the 6-SE or the WA2. I'm looking for a good tube amp for them, this the right place to be?


 

 For the $1100 price range (and a few hundred bucks more for upgraded tubes), both are great choices. I can vouche for the WA2/LCD-2 combo...my friends Frank I and baka1969 can vouche for the Woo6SE/LCD-2 combo.


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Thanks guys. So the WA2 plays nicely with high impedance cans and not low on paper but nevertheless is good with low? Seems like I can't go wrong with either one and I'm having trouble figuring it out.


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 




 "For the $1100 price range (and a few hundred bucks more for upgraded tubes), both are great choices. I can vouche for the WA2/LCD-2 combo...my friends Frank I and baka1969 can vouche for the Woo6SE/LCD-2 combo."


 Yep. It's true. Both seem to work well with the LCD2. It probably breaks down to if you prefer a warmer sound go with the WA2. If not the 6SE is a great choice. Either way you can't go wrong. Of course both look pretty damn good too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> Thanks guys. So the WA2 plays nicely with high impedance cans and not low on paper but nevertheless is good with low? Seems like I can't go wrong with either one and I'm having trouble figuring it out.


 


  Actually with planars, this is not an issue with OTL amps. Dynamics headphones, maybe.
   
  Throw in the fact that my low impedance dynamic cans (RS1i/Ed 8LE) sound really good too on the WA2 (though I prefer my transformer coupled MAD amp with them).


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> Any Woo ninjas here know which Woo amp would like the LCDs best? From what I can gather reading here, it's the either the 6-SE or the WA2. I'm looking for a good tube amp for them, this the right place to be?


 


  As both amps are of similar quality/price you can only go wrong if you pick the wrong one for your musical tastes.
   
  A number of people have confirmed that the W2 is a very good match for the LCD's and people have confirmed,including myself, that the Woo6se is a very good match as well so it comes down to personal taste. So:
  Woo2: Warmer, softer, better soundstaging,more laid back sound.
  W6se: Faster, more detail,more upfront, better dynamics, brighter, greater impact.
   
  Choose whichever suits your tastes better,knowing that tube rolling can give some flexibility in the final sound.


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

Thank you, that does help. Right now I'm leaning towards the WA2 since I'm wanting some romance with my music, and I think that's how I overall like my presentation.


----------



## Silent One

Just listed 'Miss Sophia' in the For Sale/Trade Forum:  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/541368/fs-sophia-princess-274b-rectifier-tube
   
  "Sophia Princess 274B Rectifier Tube for sale. 1,309 hours documented - best practices observed (no cycling of amp). Purchased new 9 July, 2010.


----------



## Icenine2

WA 6SE Maxed at Forum Amps for Sale http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/540839/woo-audio-wa6se-maxxed
 $1530.  Good price and it's broken in.
  Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> Any Woo ninjas here know which Woo amp would like the LCDs best? From what I can gather reading here, it's the either the 6-SE or the WA2. I'm looking for a good tube amp for them, this the right place to be?


----------



## Icenine2

What's with the Europeans selling Woo Amps?  Over in Forum's there's a WA22, WA6, and two 6SE's.  Is there some cool new European amp we don't know about?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> WA 6SE Maxed at Forum Amps for Sale http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/540839/woo-audio-wa6se-maxxed
> $1530.  Good price and it's broken in.


 
  Well I probably would sell my Maxxed WA6SE that also has the stepped alternator shipped and paypal (gift) included for that price, with my nos EML 274B solid plate and a pair of big bottle RCA 6EW7 circa 1963, and the Woo box it came in. Continental USA only.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just listed 'Miss Sophia' in the For Sale/Trade Forum:
> 
> "Sophia Princess 274B Rectifier Tube for sale. 1,309 hours documented - best practices observed (no cycling of amp). Purchased new 9 July, 2010.


 


 Silent, for those of us that are new to the tube world, could you explain what is meant by best practices and cycling?
   
  Thanks


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Silent, for those of us that are new to the tube world, could you explain what is meant by best practices and cycling?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Most likely that he does not power on and off the amp with less than an hour of up time.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well I probably would sell my Maxxed WA6SE that also has the stepped alternator shipped and paypal (gift) included for that price, with my nos EML 274B solid plate and a pair of big bottle RCA 6EW7 circa 1963, and the Woo box it came in. Continental USA only.


 


  NICE, I wish I have extra cash to burn...


----------



## Icenine2

SS,
   
  Isn't this a good price?  New is $2K  forget the PayPal thing and bargain here for a price.
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well I probably would sell my Maxxed WA6SE that also has the stepped alternator shipped and paypal (gift) included for that price, with my nos EML 274B solid plate and a pair of big bottle RCA 6EW7 circa 1963, and the Woo box it came in. Continental USA only.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> SS,
> 
> Isn't this a good price?  New is $2K  forget the PayPal thing and bargain here for a price.


 
  Yes and no.  It is a good price for the WA6SE maxxed but once you crossed the $1500 mark, there is the WA22 for another $400.  It is pretty hard to sell a maxxed  Woo amp, it took me over 2 months to sell my maxxed WA6.  I took a 30-35% hit selling it.
  
  If you have a balanced DAC, Jack will recommend the WA22 over the WA6SE unless you can afford the WA5.


----------



## Icenine2

All true JC.  I originally was going to buy the WA6SE but started reading about the 22 which at the time I wasn't ever considering.  Emailed JW and he told me what he told you about 22 outperforming the 6SE so I was in.  Of course I spent another $450 on EML+Shu Treasures.  And like you the WA5-5LE is in the back of my mind.  BTW.  The 5 is still for sale on Forum for $3800 all maxed out.  Not digging the tubes with it though.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> All true JC.  I originally was going to buy the WA6SE but started reading about the 22 which at the time I wasn't ever considering.  Emailed JW and he told me what he told you about 22 outperforming the 6SE so I was in.  Of course I spent another $450 on EML+Shu Treasures.  And like you the WA5-5LE is in the back of my mind.  BTW.  The 5 is still for sale on Forum for $3800 all maxed out.  Not digging the tubes with it though.


 


  I can live with those tubes until I can afford the EML but I can't afford that WA5 now...


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA22 was humming very noticeable in the left channel this morning. I hadn't noticed that before I swapped the EML 5U4G with a Brimar 5V4G. I really don't think a rectifier would induce hum in only one channel. And tapping the Tung-Sols caused considerable microphonics. Who knows why. I'll switch around the Tung-Sol 6AS7 tubes after work and see what happens.For once I'd like to settle down to listen to just music. Oh well.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My WA22 was humming...this morning.


 


  Perhaps it just didn't know the words


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Perhaps it just didn't know the words


 
  LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And neither do I. Perhaps I was humming to myself.
  Thanks--I need that laugh. I'm getting too serious with these tube problems.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Silent, for those of us that are new to the tube world, could you explain what is meant by best practices and cycling?
> 
> Thanks


 

 From where I'm sitting, inside my listening room... "Cycling" - to rapidly/repeatedly turn a component on-off-on within seconds/minutes. In this case, the WA6SE's power supply. This behavior could result in the premature death of the rectifier. "Turn on" is a rectifier's most sensitive moment.
   
  "Best practices?" For me this means no cycling of amp (my own minimum is 60 min); never playing amp more than 10 hours consecutively (my own limit is 8 hrs); never leaving amp on unattended (i.e. Burning-in a tube/component and you run out to 'The Goodie Store' for snacks/drinks) and so on... 
   
  Perhaps, a matter of personal taste? Sure. My Woo left feeling _wooed & pampered?_ Most definitely!


----------



## mikemalter

I could use some advice on setting an optimal voltage level to my WA22.
   
  I just got one of the newer version EML's and there is an information sheet included (they never used to have one before) that has several sections on the importance of mains voltage.  From my reading of this, anything above 110 volts is not good, and above 115 is dangerous for the tube.  I may not be reading this properly, so if others more knowledgable than me who have access to the new information sheet have a different understanding please speak up.
   
  I can adjust the voltage going to my WA22 because I am using a PS Audio P600 and can go from 100 to 120 volts.  Anybody know what the optimal voltage going to the WA22 should be?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I don't think this is something that is really under user control.  The power supply/transformer in the amp regulates voltage and the whole design will operate within its predefined tolerance.  Jack is on record that the Woo amps are all EML friendly so it must be seeing internal voltages that are within spec.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From where I'm sitting, inside my listening room... "Cycling" - to rapidly/repeatedly turn a component on-off-on within seconds/minutes. In this case, the WA6SE's power supply. This behavior could result in the premature death of the rectifier. "Turn on" is a rectifier's most sensitive moment.
> 
> "Best practices?" For me this means no cycling of amp (my own minimum is 60 min); never playing amp more than 10 hours consecutively (my own limit is 8 hrs); never leaving amp on unattended (i.e. Burning-in a tube/component and you run out to 'The Goodie Store' for snacks/drinks) and so on...
> 
> Perhaps, a matter of personal taste? Sure. My Woo left feeling _wooed & pampered?_ Most definitely!


 

 Thank you for this info.
   
  I never leave my amp unattended, nor do I play it for more than a couple of hours anyway. What I have been doing (wrong from what you say) is rolling in driver (6SN7) tubes more than a few times during a one hour time frame for instance. Each roll means a power down (cycling), so from what you say, this is bad for the rectifier tube.
   
  Can the driver tubes be swaped while the amp is on?


----------



## Skylab

Tubes can NEVER be swapped while the amp is on.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I don't think this is something that is really under user control.  The power supply/transformer in the amp regulates voltage and the whole design will operate within its predefined tolerance.  Jack is on record that the Woo amps are all EML friendly so it must be seeing internal voltages that are within spec.


 

 Ok, what I think you are telling me is that, within reason, whatever the voltage of the wall current is, the amp will handle the voltage so that the EML is happy.  So whether we have a voltage of 110, or 115 or even 120; as long as it is not fluxuating very much its all good?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Thank you for this info.
> 
> I never leave my amp unattended, nor do I play it for more than a couple of hours anyway. What I have been doing (wrong from what you say) is rolling in driver (6SN7) tubes more than a few times during a one hour time frame for instance. Each roll means a power down (cycling), so from what you say, this is bad for the rectifier tube.
> 
> Can the driver tubes be swaped while the amp is on?


 
   
  I'd be less concerned with powering down a few times an hour while 'rolling.' More concerned with how many minutes elapsed after each power down. Since swapping tubes takes mere seconds, I'd feel better waiting at least 5-10-15 minutes. I too, get excited about comparing a new tube, component or tweak (A/B-ing if you would) but I go for more extended periods before swapping stuff in and out... that's just me. 
   
  There's far more experience in this forum than my own. As I go about learning and trying new tubes, cables, accessories and tweaks, ultimately it is my personality driving the bus (think habits). As for swapping tubes while the amp is still on? Honestly do not know. But what I do know is I wouldn't do it that way anyway. I like to isolate, observe and document. So, when things unexpectedly go wrong, I can better assess or describe to those I'm seeking help from.
   
  But enough about my personality, it's approaching 1600 hours... time for tea.
   
  Cheers!
   
  Silent One


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, what I think you are telling me is that, within reason, whatever the voltage of the wall current is, the amp will handle the voltage so that the EML is happy.  So whether we have a voltage of 110, or 115 or even 120; as long as it is not fluxuating very much its all good?


 

 I received the same document from EML. Woo Audio's FAQ states the amps self-adjust for voltage bias. Wasn't quite sure I read and understood that correctly. But then Jack stepped in and said the EML and amp would be just fine.


----------



## mikemalter

Been listening to the newer version of the EML and I have to say even before it is broken in it makes the WA22 all the more compelling. 
   
  It's just got that certian something that pulls it all together.  Normally I will break work around this time to get something to eat, but I don't want to stop listening.  I've got my iPod on shuffle so I never know what is coming next, and everything sounds so good and so musical.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Been listening to the newer version of the EML and I have to say even before it is broken in it makes the WA22 all the more compelling.
> 
> It's just got that certain something that pulls it all together.  Normally I will break work around this time to get something to eat, but I don't want to stop listening.  I've got my iPod on shuffle so I never know what is coming next, and everything sounds so good and so musical.


 

 What! The newer version makes the WA22 more compelling even before it's broken in? How can you do this to me. I have 2 older versions--do I need the newer one (like a hole in my head)? Does anyone know why they keep changing the sizes of the tubes?


----------



## jc9394

I did not read or see the above posts... Please delete it before I get myself into more debt...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What! The newer version makes the WA22 more compelling even before it's broken in? How can you do this to me. I have 2 older versions--do I need the newer one (like a hole in my head)? Does anyone know why they keep changing the sizes of the tubes?


 

 Clayton,
   
  I was just listening to Micah P Hinson's Don't Leave Me Now track and for the first time I heard that he overdubbed his voice at least three times with each track just a tuch off for an effect like several people singing.  Previously it sounded good and a little fuzzy and I thought cool.  But now the extra detail revealed is just blowing my mind.  I had to just sit there, close my eyes and listen.  Instead of a kind of a mashed up sound, I could hear all of the small individual details all influencing the overall sound.  There were so many things to listen to and concentrate on I felt absorbed by the music.
   
  Right now I am listening to Midori Live at Carnege Hall and I can hear her softly humming very slightly under the music as she plays her violin.  I remember the last version of the EML, but it took a bit to break in and eventually sounded really good, but I don't remember it ever getting this good.
  
  I can't find Jack's email, but I remember he said something about making the tube taller to extend the grid and get more voltage and that was supposed to make it better.  That is all I can remember.  Whatever they did, they sure as hell improved this tube.


----------



## jc9394

Finally gets to spend some QT with LCD-2 last few days with my WA22, the LCD-2 is using a Silver Dragon balanced cable. Out of all my tubes, I start to like TS5998, Treasures, and EML 274B combo more and more, it have a very nice presentation on soundstage but still smaller than HD800 but not as artificial. It seems like more life live, kind of like sitting in Boston Symphony Hall listening live.

For some reason, I tend to listening it at a higher volume than HD800 or D7000, the dynamic is much more impactful than lower volume. It maybe more current passing to the LCD-2 at higher volume.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Been listening to the newer version of the EML and I have to say even before it is broken in it makes the WA22 all the more compelling.
> 
> It's just got that certian something that pulls it all together.  Normally I will break work around this time to get something to eat, but I don't want to stop listening.  I've got my iPod on shuffle so I never know what is coming next, and everything sounds so good and so musical.


 

 I know what you're sayin'. My new EML has me watching College Hoops with sound off, headphones on! It's breaking in beautifully at 98 hours - I can now refocus on March Madness...
   
  "Midori - Live at Carnegie".: what year, so I can see if it's in the Alameda County Library system...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:  





> Out of all my tubes, I start to like TS5998,


 


  I really like the TS5998s with my HD800s/T1s in my WA2. Nice and warm power tubes, but I seem to prefer the 7236 Tung-Sol or Sylvania with the LCD-2s. A little more SS sounding to my ears and for me a great match with the LCD-2s. Great that with a few seconds and switching tubes, it can be quite easy to get a whole new sonic experience.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, what I think you are telling me is that, within reason, whatever the voltage of the wall current is, the amp will handle the voltage so that the EML is happy.  So whether we have a voltage of 110, or 115 or even 120; as long as it is not fluxuating very much its all good?


 

 Right. However, I'm far from being an electrical engineer.  If anybody would like to expound please do so.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally gets to spend some QT with LCD-2 last few days with my WA22, the LCD-2 is using a Silver Dragon balanced cable. Out of all my tubes, I start to like TS5998, Treasures, and EML 274B combo more and more, it have a very nice presentation on soundstage but still smaller than HD800 but not as artificial. It seems like more life live, kind of like sitting in Boston Symphony Hall listening live.
> 
> For some reason, I tend to listening it at a higher volume than HD800 or D7000, the dynamic is much more impactful than lower volume. It maybe more current passing to the LCD-2 at higher volume.


 


  So the 5998's higher gain is a benefit for the LCD-2 it seems.
   
  Speaking of this tube, I was doing some reading of old posts to quench the desire for the WA22 I cannot afford to buy yet and got to wondering why this tube seems to be so rare now.  Then by coincidence I found the answer:  some of the Darkvoice amps can use it, particularly the DV336.  Those amps are both popular and affordable so it stands to reason those owners spiked demand on the 5998 quite a bit over time.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So the 5998's higher gain is a benefit for the LCD-2 it seems.


 

 Just another choice..the 7236s (along with the 5998s) can add 10-15% more power (not just gain) on the WA2 according to Jack. Not sure about the Woo22. I find the 7236s a slightly better match for the LCD-2s as the Audeze cans don't need any help in the "warmth department".


----------



## jc9394

I have to find a pair of TS 7236 to give it a try, I don't own any 7236 tubes.

Yes, the LCD-2 benefits from the higher gain power tubes. The GEC 6080 and 6AS7G sound way too soft and thin. The brighter presentation of Treasures is a great match with LCD-2, I do not like it with HD800. I still cannot decide which rectifier I like more but more toward the 274b, I will switch back to 5U4G tomorrow.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> Just another choice..the 7236s (along with the 5998s) can add 10-15% more power (not just gain) on the WA2 according to Jack. Not sure about the Woo22. I find the 7236s a slightly better match for the LCD-2s as the Audeze cans don't need any help in the "warmth department".




That is what Jack told me too when I inquire which power tube to use with LCD-2.


----------



## mikemalter

Jack just answered my email.  He said to set the voltage output on my P600 to 110 volts which is the best setting for the amp. 
  
  Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know what you're sayin'. My new EML has me watching College Hoops with sound off, headphones on! It's breaking in beautifully at 98 hours - I can now refocus on March Madness...
> 
> "Midori - Live at Carnegie".: what year, so I can see if it's in the Alameda County Library system...


 
   
  The release date is 04/19/1991 on a Sony label CD.  The UPC is 074644674224​


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The release date is 04/19/1991 on a Sony label CD.  The UPC is 074644674224​


 

 Thanks for the assist on Midori. By the way, we have two very big announcements coming next for audiophiles - one coming from Apple, the other from HDtracks. Exciting times I tell you...


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Right. However, I'm far from being an electrical engineer.  If anybody would like to expound please do so.


 


  A power supply is typically built with the power input to the amplifier feeding a transformer which in turn feeds the rectifiers.  In this case the wall voltage is never directly fed to the tubes.  I just ordered a WA-5 from Jack and he sold it to me with the EML 5U4Gs.  So the assumption is that his amps and its power supplies are built to use the EML tubes.  If you measure your wall outlet you will see something like 110V to 115V, so might as well set the power plant to something like that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Just another choice..the 7236s (along with the 5998s) can add 10-15% more power (not just gain) on the WA2 according to Jack. Not sure about the Woo22. I find the 7236s a slightly better match for the LCD-2s as the Audeze cans don't need any help in the "warmth department".


 

 Indeed.  I myself am a fan of warm, but a tube addict has no option but to try both in the end, does he?    Both the 7236 and 5998 have higher gain/power than a 6080/6AS7G, but the 5998 is slightly higher still over the 7236 based on the numbers I've seen.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Indeed.  I myself am a fan of warm, but a tube addict has no option but to try both in the end, does he?    Both the 7236 and 5998 have higher gain/power than a 6080/6AS7G, but the 5998 is slightly higher still over the 7236 based on the numbers I've seen.


 

 LoL...well put...and I guess I fall into that camp. I've got a pair of NOS Sylvania AND Tung-Sol 7236s and a pair of TS5998s. Not sure about more power/gain between the two, but the 5998s are bigger in size if that counts? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I find the 5998s warmer/tube-like sounding and the 7236s more SS'ish. Nice having both as contrasts.


----------



## grokit

> double post, see below.


----------



## mikemalter

Grokit,
   
  I was wondering how you were liking the round mica's.  I decided not to sell the other pair but are listening to them.
   
  Interesting you found them distant when used with the HD800 and like them with the LCD-2.  Which Woo do you have?
   
  What do you think of your LCD-2?  I have been thinking about getting a pair and am doing a lot of reading about them right now.  Do they sound better than the HD800's?


----------



## grokit

I am one confused Grokit, and I need tube therapy!
   
  I can't decide how I really feel about the acclaimed TSRP/6SN7GTs pairs that I have. I have both the oval and round mica versions, and had both the LCD-2 and HD800. I was satisfied with my TS5998/Shuguang setup on my WA22, but curiosity got the best of me like it does all of us.
   
  I found that I liked the used oval micas I picked up on Audiogon quite a bit, but decided to try a pair of MM's round micas for kicks. Thee round mica's didn't seem to play very well with the HD800s compared to the ovals, and I ended up selling the HD800s even though the tubes were not the real cause. They made the 800s sound even more "distant", if you know what I mean, and didn't seem to do as much for the bass on them as the oval micas did.
   
  So I sold them, but now I am trying to get out of the deal! Of course I will honor it if the buyer feels strongly about it, but I have asked his permission to issue a refund because the LCD-2 seems to like them quite a bit, and of course I don't have the HD800s any more. With the LCD-2, that "distance" seems to translate into an enhanced soundstage, and the bass seems tighter on them than with the oval micas. Shouldn't have had that last listen lol. 
   
  As all I have for the WA22 is the LCD-2 ATM, I would like to keep these round micas after all. OTOH, in the future I am hoping to get another HD800, and to find the tube combo that plays the best with both headphones if such a thing is even possible. The only other drivers that I don't have that I would like to hear with my HD800 are the bad boys, but I am concentrating on the LCD-2 for now anyways.
   
  This isn't the easiest learning curve in the world; tubes really throw a wrench into the whole synergy equation! Sometimes I wish I hadn't gotten into the whole tube thing. The rewards are great, but there are many pitfalls; it's not for the timid that's for sure! SS had told me the round micas weren't that great when I offered them to him, but I really think they are the best I've heard out of my LCD-2s. Does anybody else concur with these sentiments, or am I going even more crazy with this hobby, placebo effect, or "seller's remorse" lol?
   
  Anyways I am at the mercy of the buyer now, we'll see if he "lets" me keep them as I am a stand-up guy and will do whatever he wants.
  I have even offered to send him a CD to make up for the hassle if he lets me refund him


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> I was wondering how you were liking the round mica's.  I decided not to sell the other pair but are listening to them.
> 
> ...


 
   

 I have the WA22 (post updated); I like the LCD-2s quite a bit but the two different mica versions really do seem to shine differently with these two different headphones.
   
  The HD800 already has a cavernous soundstage, and the holographic nature of the round mica seemed to make that soundstage sound somewhat artificial. But that same weakness with the HD800 seems to play right into the LCD-2's hands, giving them a much-needed sense of air and space while maintaining their totally natural sound.
   
  And with the oval micas, the bass can sound a bit too enthusiastic on the LCD-2s, while it gives the HD800s a nice boost in the low end as you already know. And I remember liking the HD800s better with the ovals than I liked them with the round plates, so I don't think there were any negative soundstage issues that bothered me with the ovals on the 800s.
   
  I had assumed at the time that I was just gravitating towards the LCD-2, but I don't think so anymore. I was without my balanced HD800 cable for a while, right after I got the balanced cable for the LCD-2. I was thinking more about the cables than the tubes at the time, but I remember not being as impressed with the HD800 when I got the cable back as I had been before, and the only other variable was the TSRP plates.
   
  So I need to give the HD800s another run, as there is a lot to like about them as well as with the LCD-2. They are both great headphones in their own right; it's just that I am starting to think that they have such opposite and complimentary strengths that you _have _to change tubes to highlight each one at their best. There's a great thread comparing the two headphones, and it's gotten a lot less polarizing lately.
   
  I am sure that if I had sold the LCD-2 instead of the HD800, I would be missing them just as much. I sold the 800s because I wanted to try the Edition 8 and I am glad for that, but I wonder if I would have listed them for sale if I had not gotten those roundplates from you!
   
   
  BTW, I'm having a hard time posting, anyone else getting this?:
   
"Head-Fi Maintenance!

  Thank you for visiting Head-Fi.org!

  We're currently updating our site. Come back and visit us soon."


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





> BTW, I'm having a hard time posting, anyone else getting this?:
> 
> "Head-Fi Maintenance!
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, it's been off and on like that all day... you are not alone.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





grokit said:


> BTW, I'm having a hard time posting, anyone else getting this?:
> 
> "Head-Fi Maintenance!
> 
> ...


 

 Lets hope these updates improve our Head-Fi experience.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Indeed.  I myself am a fan of warm, but a tube addict has no option but to try both in the end, does he?    Both the 7236 and 5998 have higher gain/power than a 6080/6AS7G, but the 5998 is slightly higher still over the 7236 based on the numbers I've seen.


 

 That's correct.  Amplification factor of the 7236 is 4.8, versus 5.4 for the 5998.  For reference, the 6AS7G's amplification factor is 2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's correct.  Amplification factor of the 7236 is 4.8, versus 5.4 for the 5998.  For reference, the 6AS7G's amplification factor is 2.


 


  No wonder I like the 5998 much more with LCD-2 than 6AS7G.  According to WA22's spec, it is output at 2 watts with 7236, that means with 5998, the output is over 2 watts.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have the WA22 (post updated); I like the LCD-2s quite a bit but the two different mica versions really do seem to shine differently with these two different headphones.
> 
> The HD800 already has a cavernous soundstage, and the holographic nature of the round mica seemed to make that soundstage sound somewhat artificial. But that same weakness with the HD800 seems to play right into the LCD-2's hands, giving them a much-needed sense of air and space while maintaining their totally natural sound.
> 
> ...


 

 Grokit,
   
  Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the LCD-2.  Am also glad you are liking the round mica's and have confirmed that there are audible differences between the round and oval micas.


----------



## Icenine2

Concert for George Streaming all day long.........free.  Awesome inspired performances.  The songs are played straight.  All Things Must Pass material is stunning.  Monty Python fun, Tom Hanks sitting in w/them.  Today only!  If you are a fan be prepared to get choked up watching this.
   
http://concertforgeorge.com/


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the LCD-2.  Am also glad you are liking the round mica's and have confirmed that there are audible differences between the round and oval micas.


 
   
  Well the buyer would have been pretty bummed so I sent them out as promised, and now I don't have my favorite tube anymore for my LCD-2 so I need to vent:
   
  I am swearing off NOS tubes for a while, because this blows.
   
  I have learned the hard way once again as I re-sold the round micas for $100 less than what I paid you and now I want them back. If SS hadn't told me they were "bad" tubes, I probably wouldn't have listed them for sale so quickly but through the HD800 they _were _bad sounding to me. I've spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars and I still don't have the tubes I want for the LCD-2, and I don't have the HD800 anymore either. 
   
  I am just going to stay with the Shunguang drivers and rectifiers for now. I will probably be rolling in the other rectifiers and drivers I have but who knows, as rolling tubes is a PITA with so many variables and the whole power up/down cycle we are supposed to adhere to. This has been a negative enough experience that I have been avoiding the WA22/LCD-2 entirely lately.
   
  All I know for sure is that I like the TS5998 for power. I will tuck the EML 5U4G away for now as well, just to penalize myself for stupidity. It sucks to buy and sell tubes if you don't have a tester etc.
   
  I could have been a Richard's nickname and just refunded the buyer but that's not my style. For the time and money I have invested in this Woo tube rolling adventure I could have just ordered something like a Cavalli liquid Fire. Then I wouldn't have had to deal with synergizing multiple tube types for various headphones, just figure out my favorite 6922 and get back to enjoying the music.
   
  /vent


----------



## Caphead78

I know this isn't really adding to the discussion but.......
I'm soon to be the proud owner of a new WA6! Can't wait!

Carry on.

P.S. Anyone have quick WA6/WA6SE tube rolling recommendations? All the threads I found were dead and as excited as I am to be getting the amp, I unfortunately do not have the time to wade through the 8500 posts of this thread


----------



## mikemalter

Wanted to post some additional observations made after last night's EML post.
   
  When I was listening last night, I had everything plugged into my PS Audio P600 power regenerator.  Voltage output was 110 volts at 60 cycles, as per Jack's recommendation that 110 is an optimal voltage for the WA22.
   
  I'm having some problems with the P600 due to the increased voltages now being pushed out by our power company.  The result is that I can hear a cycling hum in all of my gear, even with their DC filtering product in the power chain (but that's another story).  I could never hear it through my headphones until the new EML went in, and now it is audible as a very low whispy hum every so often in the left channel. So, I thought maybe I can use wall power until the unit gets replaced by the newer P5 which is designed to handle much greater input voltages as it can be as high as 124 to 127 volts.  I emailed Jack about it, and he said just make sure the amp does not get too hot.
   
  So, I started listening using wall power and the results were not as good.  I'm not sure if it is the P600 itself, or that the voltage went from 110 to above 124, but there is a very big sonic difference.  I wanted to post this because I was so lauditory in my comments about the EML last night, and it looks like there were other factors contributing to it sounding so well.
   
  Back to 124 volts.  First thing was that I noticed the filliment on the EML was glowing brighter as were the other tubes (Tung-sol 6NS7 BGRP & GEC 6AS7G).  The baseline for volume was now two clicks instead of four clicks for 110.  Also, everything sounded more compressed and tighter, and the nuances I heard last night were not there.  Also, I could turn the music up much louder without harshness when getting power from the P600, but turning up the volume from wall power just seemed to increase harshness.
   
  Once I switched back to the P600 at 110 volts, the filliments on the tubes did not seem as bright and the music smoothed out like last night.
   
  I wanted to post this because it could be that the EML was behaving differently in my environment as a result of the P600 and I did not want to have people think that the EML was so spectacular and then when they got it, it did not live up to expectations and they could be dissappointed.  Also, it could be that it is simply a wall voltage issue, and there is enough of a shift from 110 to 124 that it just does not work as well.
   
  Just wanted to throw this out there for what it's worth, hope it's helpful.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well the buyer would have been pretty bummed so I sent them out as promised, and now I don't have my favorite tube anymore for my LCD-2 so I need to vent:
> 
> I am swearing off NOS tubes for a while, because this blows.
> 
> ...


 

 Really sorry this worked out so badly for you.  I know how you feel, I've been there.  Too bad SS told you the TSRP's were bad tubes.  I wound up like you in that in the beginning after I got them, I wanted to sell them, but then finally held back a pair to keep instead of sell and now I am listening to them.  However, you did learn a few things and you can take that well-paid for education and put it to work for you going forward.  Personally, I think you should break out the EML and praise yourself for lessons learned so well!
  
  It's probably for the best you stuck to your word even though it was hard to do.  For that reason alone you should break out the EML for being so honest!
   
  Take a deep breath, and let the music speak to you. I've posted here and asked for opinions and other perspectives when I've had doubts or questions about tubes and other equipment issues and have always been glad I got feedback as sometimes I changed course because of it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

grokit, what were the hours on your round mica TSRP?  Most people seem to feel that the mica type doesn't affect sound quality on a round plate tung sol, and that the only major difference is the round mica version being a bit more microphonic.  If your round mica were new and the oval mica used it's possible the difference is attributable to break-in.  The oval mica tubes are settled and the round mica ones were not.
   
  I can definitely understand the frurstration, and hearing opinions that contradict fills us up with doubts on top of it all.  We can only appreciate the rewards when we finally find a combination that works for us and take the journey as part of the experience.  I've had my ups and downs tube rolling but I try to remember it is supposed to be fun when I get frustrated over it.


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by Caphead78 

 "I know this isn't really adding to the discussion but.......
 I'm soon to be the proud owner of a new WA6! Can't wait!

 Carry on.

 P.S. Anyone have quick WA6/WA6SE tube rolling recommendations? All the threads I found were dead and as excited as I am to be getting the amp, I unfortunately do not have the time to wade through the 8500 posts of this thread"


 https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html

 Have fun


----------



## Caphead78

baka1969 said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by Caphead78
> 
> "I know this isn't really adding to the discussion but.......
> I'm soon to be the proud owner of a new WA6! Can't wait!
> ...




Thank you so much Baka!


----------



## grokit

Thanks for the props guys, I had to get that off my chest but I feel a little bitter better now. The round micas probably had about 100 hours on them.
   
  Just wondering, does everyone keep a pad of paper by their Woo to keep track of tube hours? If you have them powered up without sound going through them, does that count the same?


----------



## Skylab

No, and Yes.  I don't keep a log of tube hours.  I just make estimates as to how long I've been using them.  Too many tubes to keep logs.
   
  But a tube is using up life when it's powered on, regardless of whether there is signal present.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No, and Yes.  I don't keep a log of tube hours.  I just make estimates as to how long I've been using them.  Too many tubes to keep logs.
> 
> But a tube is using up life when it's powered on, regardless of whether there is signal present.


 

 That is precisely how I do my amp accounting - if they're powered up/on I'm recording the activity.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the props guys, I had to get that off my chest but I feel a little bitter better now. The round micas probably had about 100 hours on them.
> 
> Just wondering, does everyone keep a pad of paper by their Woo to keep track of tube hours? If you have them powered up without sound going through them, does that count the same?


 

 I have a spreadsheet for each tube and I carefully log hours and notes during breakin.  I also have a label maker, and when I put the tubes up, I put the number of hours on them if they are during breakin.  After breakin, when I swap tubes, I put approximate hours on them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the props guys, I had to get that off my chest but I feel a little bitter better now. The round micas probably had about 100 hours on them.
> 
> Just wondering, does everyone keep a pad of paper by their Woo to keep track of tube hours? If you have them powered up without sound going through them, does that count the same?


 

 You picked the right place, to be picked up by the right kind... your own! Listening is an emotional experience. Directly or indirectly, we're all in this hobby together finding joy, satisfaction, knowledge and happiness. The less illuminated side of your ordeal would show that your identity was reaffirmed. Integrity goes along way here in this forum.
   
  In my own experience, I use the software program _Evernote_ across platforms - iPhone, Mac & PC. Data entry on one will automatically sync (update) my other two devices.  Also, I'm with Skylab when he stated "If it's powered on..."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a spreadsheet for each tube and I carefully log hours and notes during breakin.  I also have a label maker, and when I put the tubes up, I put the number of hours on them if they are during breakin.  After breakin, when I swap tubes, I put approximate hours on them.


 

_You've got style._


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _You've got style._


 

 Thank you.  I also have a pair of white cotton gloves I use when transfering tubes.
  
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You picked the right place, to be picked up by the right kind... your own! Listening is an emotional experience. Directly or indirectly, we're all in this hobby together finding joy, satisfaction, knowledge and happiness. The less illuminated side of your ordeal would show that your identity was reaffirmed. Integrity goes along way here in this forum.
> 
> In my own experience, I use the software program _Evernote_ across platforms - iPhone, Mac & PC. Data entry on one will automatically sync (update) my other two devices.  Also, I'm with Skylab when he stated "If it's powered on..."


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> But a tube is using up life when it's powered on, regardless of whether there is signal present.


 
   
   
  Thanks Skylab; what about break-in? Does the tube have to have signal going through it for break-in or is powered on adequate for that as well?

   

  Btw, my NOS boycott didn't last long (lol), I just put some of the round mica funds towards a matched pair of Bad Boys lol.

   

  Mike, I will put the EML back in at some point, just don't want to have it in while I am powering up and down to accommodate rolling and comparing the other tubes because of the issues mentioned previously in this thread. Also I want to really get a feel for the improvements it offers compared to the other rectifiers when I am done.

   

  SilentOne, thanks again.


----------



## sillysally

White gloves are nice but when handling a tube with a bass like the EML 5U4G, its always a good idea never to hold the glass bottle only the bass when inserting or removing a value tube.
  Also as I have said before make sure your amp has cooled down before each tube rolling.


----------



## Xcalibur255

After hearing some of the most experienced tube users on Head-fi handle their tubes without gloves and take no special precautions, I relaxed my standards a LOT in terms of how I handle my own tubes and I can't say there is any ill effect.  The one thing I do believe is important is to always remove tubes by the base, simply because the glue on a NOS tube is old and it could break the base loose from the glass if you pull it out gripping the glass portion.  When inserting tubes I'll hold the glass directly if it is easier to grip that way, though I only do this with rectifiers since it is so easy to grip a 6SN7 by the base anyway.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> White gloves are nice but when handling a tube with a bass like the EML 5U4G, its always a good idea never to hold the glass bottle only the bass when inserting or removing a value tube.
> Also as I have said before make sure your amp has cooled down before each tube rolling.


 

 SS,
   
  Good point about letting the amp cool down before tube rolling.  I rarely swap during the day, but will take the day and let the sonic experience sink in and then change my tubes first thing in the morning before I start listening.  There have been times when I did change during the day, and like you recommend, let my amp cool down so it was cool to the touch before swapping tubes.


----------



## Skylab

^^^ Guys, please keep the dirty laundry private.
  
  Now, to return to our regularly scheduled program:
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> After hearing some of the most experienced tube users on Head-fi handle their tubes without gloves and take no special precautions, I relaxed my standards a LOT in terms of how I handle my own tubes and I can't say there is any ill effect.  The one thing I do believe is important is to always remove tubes by the base, simply because the glue on a NOS tube is old and it could break the base loose from the glass if you pull it out gripping the glass portion.  When inserting tubes I'll hold the glass directly if it is easier to grip that way, though I only do this with rectifiers since it is so easy to grip a 6SN7 by the base anyway.


 

 It's definitely not necessary to use gloves to handle tubes from the perspective of the tube.  Some folks (not here on head-fi, elsewhere) had developed a belief that the oils from skin would somehow damage the tubes, which is really very silly.  But gloves CAN be useful to keep your fingers from getting burned if you are not waiting for the tubes to cool before removing them 
   
  I do agree it's better to hand;e the tube by the base, whether that is an actual base like in the case of a 6SN7, or just the bottom of the tube in the vase of all-glass tubes like the 6DJ8, as you want to handle the tube as close to the socket as possible so as not to create unneeded stress on the tube, pins, or socket.


----------



## Clayton SF

I don't wear gloves when handling my tubes but I wash my hands with soap and water and dry them thoroughly before handling any tubes I intend on removing and inserting. Then I use a cotton handkerchief to wipe off any oils on the tube that I may have left behind in the process. It also gets rid of the dust that may have accumulated on the tubes and "makes 'em all really sparkly, shiny 'n happy!
   
  Last week the sun was shining directly on my tubes & amp exposing quite a layer of dust! This apartment gets very dusty for some odd reason and it ain't from the San Francisco Fog! So I give the tubes & amp a good dusting off with a soft cloth every weekend. I can't imagine what kind of dust those tubes might be baking while I'm listening to music.


----------



## jude

mikemalter, sillysally, and grokit, this sounds like a private conversation, not something for this thread. Please take it to PM. (Some of the above posts may be deleted.)


----------



## mikemalter

I was wondering if it is necessary to treat tubes the way you handle those really high temperature bulbs.  I read somewhere that if you get a fingerprint on one, it weakens the glass as the oils that were transferred with the fingerprint heat up.


----------



## Clayton SF

I trust that y'all can work things out. I'm just going to listen a few of these and enjoy the music and the day. I hope y'all can too. Have a nice day.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  For a reference point again, I put all of the stock tubes back into the WA22. (What!!!) Just to remember where I started from.


----------



## Skylab

Man, Clayton, that looks like amp heaven!


----------



## mikemalter

And it is a bright sunny day in the North bay.  A little window view of a sunny day, some good coffee and nice tunes!


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes, Skylab, mikemalter--we all have a little bit of heaven in our homes! But now I have to leave my little heaven and go and battle the masses because I need to get some money from the ATM to buy some food and that means I have to turn off my amp, put on some warm clothes, and walk 10 blocks downhill to my Chase Bank in this moderately cool weather 41 degrees. But when I return....
   
  Did anyone get a 5Z4 as a stock rectifier with their WA22? I did. It's a cute little tube from Russia. I'm listening to that one again.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes, Skylab, mikemalter--we all have a little bit of heaven in our homes! But now I have to leave my little heaven and go and battle the masses because I need to get some money from the ATM to buy some food and that means I have to turn off my amp, put on some warm clothes, and walk 10 blocks downhill to my Chase Bank in this moderately cool weather 41 degrees. But when I return....
> 
> Did anyone get a 5Z4 as a stock rectifier with their WA22? I did. It's a cute little tube from Russia. I'm listening to that one again.


 

 Yes, I got that one.  What do you think of it?


----------



## Clayton SF

Well it pales in comparison to the EML 5U4G but I just wanted to revisit the stock setup. So here what's happening. Since all of the tubes in the WA22 are now stock the first thing I noticed is that the very low-level hum that I get in my left channel is greatly reduced--but so are the dynamics. I'll listen to this setup for a few days or maybe a week (if I can hold out that long) and then try another rectifier. Just a rectifier. Skylab mentioned that there are still quite a few reasonably priced 5U4G NOS rectifiers out there, and he is correct. I may order an RCA 5U4G black plate and try that one--it's only $29.
   
  I happened across this list which is interesting because it doesn't list a 5Z4. Since I am slowly learning about amps and how they work electrically on Head-Fi, I thought I'd work through this list. It's just a thought though. I don't want to start getting into that infinite search that: "I want to find that Holy Grail quickly" state of mind. I want to take my time moving through the various rectifier options. Just long enough to enjoy the music and not get wrapped up in enjoying the equipment.
   
  5Y3 - 1.11 times the RMS voltage of transformer.
 5R4 - 1.14 times the RMS voltage of transformer.
 5U4 - 1.19 times the RMS voltage of transformer.
 5V4 - 1.22 times the RMS voltage of transformer.
 5AR4 / GZ34 - 1.29 times the RMS voltage of transformer.
   
  I'll have to research what "X times the RMS voltage of transformer" means and what its effects are on my WA22.
   
  Tally-ho! I'm off to the ATM!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think it basically means the as you go down the list the rectifiers are drawing progressively more current from the transformer, right?  Anything that is pin and electrically compatible with the Woos works as long as it doesn't exceed 3.0 amps which is what the transformer itself is rated for.  Above that the amp would likely function but it would mean a steady death for the transformer over time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Guys, I have the itch to buy one more pair of 6SN7 and I'm having a hard time deciding so I thought I'd ask all your opinion.    Much as I love the warm sound of the RCA greyglass VT-231 it just doesn't pair well with the EML 274B at all and the rectifiers it does play nicely with don't produce the level of resolution I expect.  So I'm looking for one more pair of tubes with a lush sound signature and I can't decide between the Brimar CV1988 and the CBS/Hytron 5692.  I can get either for the same price, and am tempted to just get both but that would dig into moneys earmarked for other things so I'm torn.  Opinions welcome!


----------



## Skylab

If you want lush, I'd go with the Brimar CV1988. The CBS/Hytron 5692 is a nice tube, indeed, but I have never thought of it as Lush.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks Skylab, that was what I needed to hear.  I was worried the Hytron sound would be too much overlap with tubes I already have and it seems like that would be the case.  Brimar it is.


----------



## grokit

I've got the Shunguang 274b rectifier back in for reference now, but the Russian one that evidently came with mine is a 5U3C; I don't think it has been mentioned. I had just pulled it out and it will go in next, but the Shunguang dwarfs it, and it's downright minuscule compare to the new-style EML. According to the tube store:
   
  "Incredibly rare and considered to be one of the best 5U4G rectifier tubes made. This Winged "C" 5U4G / 5U3C tube has black-plate construction and was made from the late 1950's to early 1960's. This tube is labeled with it's Russian name 5U3C but is an exact replacement for any 5U4-G tube."
Pretty flattering description for a $50 rectifier.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well it pales in comparison to the EML 5U4G but I just wanted to revisit the stock setup. So here what's happening. Since all of the tubes in the WA22 are now stock the first thing I noticed is that the very low-level hum that I get in my left channel is greatly reduced--but so are the dynamics. I'll listen to this setup for a few days or maybe a week (if I can hold out that long) and then try another rectifier. Just a rectifier. Skylab mentioned that there are still quite a few reasonably priced 5U4G NOS rectifiers out there, and he is correct. I may order an RCA 5U4G black plate and try that one--it's only $29.
> 
> I happened across this list which is interesting because it doesn't list a 5Z4. Since I am slowly learning about amps and how they work electrically on Head-Fi, I thought I'd work through this list. It's just a thought though. I don't want to start getting into that infinite search that: "I want to find that Holy Grail quickly" state of mind. I want to take my time moving through the various rectifier options. Just long enough to enjoy the music and not get wrapped up in enjoying the equipment.
> 
> ...


 


 Another rectifier you can try is a 5T4 This is a metal tube developed during WW2 it has the same specs as a 5U4 but only draws 2 amps filament current.
  It ain't pretty like a glass tube and you can't see the filament light up but it is shielded and won't radiate HUM into your 6SN7s. And not many people know
  about it so it only costs $9.50 at Antique Electronic supply.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Another rectifier you can try is a 5T4 This is a metal tube developed during WW2 it has the same specs as a 5U4 but only draws 2 amps filament current.
> It ain't pretty like a glass tube and you can't see the filament light up but it is shielded and won't radiate HUM into your 6SN7s. And not many people know
> about it so it only costs $9.50 at Antique Electronic supply.


 

 A person needn't be pretty to make good music.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for the 5T4 suggestion. I wasn't aware that Woo headphone amps could use metal tubes. (And I don't see why not, yes?) Does that mean that I can use a 5Z4 metal tube as well? I've seen those at a reasonable price too.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Guys, I have the itch to buy one more pair of 6SN7 and I'm having a hard time deciding so I thought I'd ask all your opinion.    Much as I love the warm sound of the RCA greyglass VT-231 it just doesn't pair well with the EML 274B at all and the rectifiers it does play nicely with don't produce the level of resolution I expect.  So I'm looking for one more pair of tubes with a lush sound signature and I can't decide between the Brimar CV1988 and the CBS/Hytron 5692.  I can get either for the same price, and am tempted to just get both but that would dig into moneys earmarked for other things so I'm torn.  Opinions welcome!


 

 Your biggest problem is your EML 274B mesh plate. Yes it has a lot of bass and very good sound-stage but none the less it is slow and will not give a high resolution.
  As you may know I had both the EML 274B's Mesh and Solid plate for my WA6SE, I kept the solid plate and sold the Mesh. For the same reason, level of resolution plus speed of the tube (goes hand in hand). The only problem with using the EML 274B solid or the EML 5U4G is you will loose bass, so that is where your dive/power tubes come into play. Its for that reason why I use the RCA chrome top 6EW7 big bottle circa 1963. However I would not use the RCA with the EML 274B Mesh plate.


----------



## spagetka

Have somebody had a chance to compare EML 5U4G and GZ34 metal base? I know, key factor is the price but what about the soundstage/speed/resolution? Thank you in advance.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Your biggest problem is your EML 274B mesh plate. Yes it has a lot of bass and very good sound-stage but none the less it is slow and will not give a high resolution.
> As you may know I had both the EML 274B's Mesh and Solid plate for my WA6SE, I kept the solid plate and sold the Mesh. For the same reason, level of resolution plus speed of the tube (goes hand in hand). The only problem with using the EML 274B solid or the EML 5U4G is you will loose bass, so that is where your dive/power tubes come into play. Its for that reason why I use the RCA chrome top 6EW7 big bottle circa 1963. However I would not use the RCA with the EML 274B Mesh plate.


 

  
  It looks like you misunderstood my run on sentence a bit.    I only find the resolution lacking on the greyglass RCA VT231 when it is used with non-EML rectifiers, such as my trusty old RCA 5R4GY.  Though I did find it played quite nicely with the Brimar 5R4GY.  The trouble with the greyglass and EML 274B together is the high end becomes harsh and edgy without any real increase in treble energy to cause it.  It is quite severe on some vocals, and completely ruins any ability to enjoy it.  The combination lacks neither speed nor clarity if you set this harshness issue aside.  In fact for instrumental music only they sound amazing together, nothing can touch them for piano not even the TSRPs.  There is power and weight behind the notes but it has the control and speed to prevent note overhang or bloat, and the tone is heavenly.  But play anything with vocals and there is this nasty edge to every word that is unlike anything I've encountered with the Woo.  The EML doesn't behave this way with any other tube, just the greyglass RCA, so I just chalked it up to some coincidental combination of b+ voltage and output levels that made the tube behave badly in that frequency range.  The greyglass in general has been a game of frustration for me, I can get nice tone out of it or nice detail but never both at the same time it seems.  It is an unusually fussy tube when it comes to what kind of rectifier it wants to be paired with.  I've had my best results running it with RCA rectifiers, but while the result is pleasant it definitely doesn't win any awards for resolution or signal control.  If a person wants a super mellow "tubey" sound it can be just the ticket though.  My hope for the Brimar CV1988 is to replicate the tone of the greyglass RCA without the problems that come along with those tubes.
   
  I'm honestly still curious about the CBS 5692 as well.  My gut tells me they would work well in a WA6 since they are designed to operate at lower voltages than a regular 6SN7 and the WA6 hardly taxes 6SN7 tubes anyway.  I've used up my tube buying budget again though, so unless I can feel certain I'd love them I can't do it.  I'm afraid of getting something too similar sounding to a tube I already own.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A person needn't be pretty to make good music.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Yes it will work it has the same basing.The 5Z4 is really a metal 5Y3 and the 5T4 is a metal 5U4 actually the 5T4 is closer to a 274B with it's 2 amp filament draw.
  They will work fine low cost and shielded but not pretty.


----------



## jerico

Hooked up my turntable to my 22 a few minutes ago, via the single ended inputs (no balanced outs on my phono pre) and I have no sound coming from the left channel! I tried switching the cables around, and still no sound on the left. The balanced inputs (where my DAC is connected) work fine.

I also tried turning the amp off for a while, and then back on. When i did this, I got sound from both channels on the single need input, but after a minute or so the left channel fades out again.

I switched the DAC to the single ended inputs - and again no sound on the left.

Grrr. I'd been looking forward to using my table with the Woo all day (as my wife has a taken over the living room to watch the Oscars)!

Justin (looking for some sympathy)


----------



## Skylab

So the left single ended input has failed, eh? Bummer. Probably just the jack, but you never know.


----------



## jc9394

Jerico, at least you are in NYC and you can probably carry the WA22 to Jack by feet.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hooked up my turntable to my 22 a few minutes ago, via the single ended inputs (no balanced outs on my phono pre) and I have no sound coming from the left channel! I tried switching the cables around, and still no sound on the left. The balanced inputs (where my DAC is connected) work fine.
> 
> I also tried turning the amp off for a while, and then back on. When i did this, I got sound from both channels on the single need input, but after a minute or so the left channel fades out again.
> 
> ...


 


  What a coincidence.  I turned on my WA22 and noticed that the left side was virtually non-existant and I almost panicked until I saw that one of the XLRs from my DAC was disconnected.


----------



## jerico

I wish that was all it was, Audio Dude!   But I tried 2 different sources, and 2 sets of RCAs - it's definitely the amp.  Oh well, at least the XLR input is ok - I can still use my DAC until I hear back from Jack.
   
  As Skylab said... bummer, indeed!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It looks like you misunderstood my run on sentence a bit.    I only find the resolution lacking on the greyglass RCA VT231 when it is used with non-EML rectifiers, such as my trusty old RCA 5R4GY.  Though I did find it played quite nicely with the Brimar 5R4GY.  The trouble with the greyglass and EML 274B together is the high end becomes harsh and edgy without any real increase in treble energy to cause it.  It is quite severe on some vocals, and completely ruins any ability to enjoy it.  The combination lacks neither speed nor clarity if you set this harshness issue aside.  In fact for instrumental music only they sound amazing together, nothing can touch them for piano not even the TSRPs.  There is power and weight behind the notes but it has the control and speed to prevent note overhang or bloat, and the tone is heavenly.  But play anything with vocals and there is this nasty edge to every word that is unlike anything I've encountered with the Woo.  The EML doesn't behave this way with any other tube, just the greyglass RCA, so I just chalked it up to some coincidental combination of b+ voltage and output levels that made the tube behave badly in that frequency range.  The greyglass in general has been a game of frustration for me, I can get nice tone out of it or nice detail but never both at the same time it seems.  It is an unusually fussy tube when it comes to what kind of rectifier it wants to be paired with.  I've had my best results running it with RCA rectifiers, but while the result is pleasant it definitely doesn't win any awards for resolution or signal control.  If a person wants a super mellow "tubey" sound it can be just the ticket though.  My hope for the Brimar CV1988 is to replicate the tone of the greyglass RCA without the problems that come along with those tubes.
> 
> I'm honestly still curious about the CBS 5692 as well.  My gut tells me they would work well in a WA6 since they are designed to operate at lower voltages than a regular 6SN7 and the WA6 hardly taxes 6SN7 tubes anyway.  I've used up my tube buying budget again though, so unless I can feel certain I'd love them I can't do it.  I'm afraid of getting something too similar sounding to a tube I already own.


 

 X,
   
  I'm curious.  Are you using anything to regenerate power, or are you getting power directly from your wall?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I wish that was all it was, Audio Dude!   But I tried 2 different sources, and 2 sets of RCAs - it's definitely the amp.  Oh well, at least the XLR input is ok - I can still use my DAC until I hear back from Jack.
> 
> As Skylab said... bummer, indeed!


 

 This is probably the most obvious question to ask, but did you flip the input switch on the back of the WA22 to accept single ended?  Sorry had to ask.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> X,
> 
> I'm curious.  Are you using anything to regenerate power, or are you getting power directly from your wall?


 
  It's straight from wall, unless you count the Tripplite surge protector.  Power conditioning is one of those things I would need to hear to believe and unfortunately I don't have the means to hear.  If somebody could *completely* convince me that power regeneration truly takes the harshness out of treble then I would save for such a device, but as it is I'm just too skeptical. 
   
  I actually have a pretty forgiving viewpoint on the subject of psycho acoustics.  Whether the difference is real or just in your head doesn't change the fact that you are getting increased satisfaction out of it.    Some things in the audio world are simply decided for me by virtue of being beyond my means.  If I could afford to buy a PS Audio power regenerator I would use that money to buy any number of things that are higher priority on the need/want list instead. 
   
  Having said all that I can't help but wonder from time to time if I'm missing out on the key that unlocks the final door leading to audio nirvana by not exploring the option.  Harshness and forced or "glassy" and "shouty" highs and upper mids have *always* been my problem with headphones and have ruined my enjoyment of them for years.  I've come a long ways with the Woo, though, and am finding quite a bit of enjoyment with it now so it's not all bad as it is right now.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It looks like you misunderstood my run on sentence a bit.    I only find the resolution lacking on the greyglass RCA VT231 when it is used with non-EML rectifiers, such as my trusty old RCA 5R4GY.  Though I did find it played quite nicely with the Brimar 5R4GY.  The trouble with the greyglass and EML 274B together is the high end becomes harsh and edgy without any real increase in treble energy to cause it.  It is quite severe on some vocals, and completely ruins any ability to enjoy it.  The combination lacks neither speed nor clarity if you set this harshness issue aside.  In fact for instrumental music only they sound amazing together, nothing can touch them for piano not even the TSRPs.  There is power and weight behind the notes but it has the control and speed to prevent note overhang or bloat, and the tone is heavenly.  But play anything with vocals and there is this nasty edge to every word that is unlike anything I've encountered with the Woo.  The EML doesn't behave this way with any other tube, just the greyglass RCA, so I just chalked it up to some coincidental combination of b+ voltage and output levels that made the tube behave badly in that frequency range.  The greyglass in general has been a game of frustration for me, I can get nice tone out of it or nice detail but never both at the same time it seems.  It is an unusually fussy tube when it comes to what kind of rectifier it wants to be paired with.  I've had my best results running it with RCA rectifiers, but while the result is pleasant it definitely doesn't win any awards for resolution or signal control.  If a person wants a super mellow "tubey" sound it can be just the ticket though.  My hope for the Brimar CV1988 is to replicate the tone of the greyglass RCA without the problems that come along with those tubes.
> 
> I'm honestly still curious about the CBS 5692 as well.  My gut tells me they would work well in a WA6 since they are designed to operate at lower voltages than a regular 6SN7 and the WA6 hardly taxes 6SN7 tubes anyway.  I've used up my tube buying budget again though, so unless I can feel certain I'd love them I can't do it.  I'm afraid of getting something too similar sounding to a tube I already own.


 
  I can really relate to what you are saying, and yes It drove me nuts also with my WA6SE. It got so I would spend about as much time enjoying the audio as I did rolling/ buying and finding tubes.Finely I decided the heck with all this tube rolling and just settled on the combination of tubes that worked well with most all of the audio I enjoyed and of-course the rest of my audio system. Yes as you point out you can get better AQ with different combos of tubes for certain types of audio but that combo of tubes sucks with other types of audio.
   
  And also don't forget your Amp/tubes are just one part of your audio system, there are other considerations involved in your audio chain that can make even a bigger difference than the tubes you are using. As the old saying goes your audio system is only as good as the weakest link in your audio system.
   
  btw; I do have a PPP and yes it helps a little maybe, but when you go down the PPP road then you find yourself looking at more expensive power cables and wall plugs.
  So until you win the jackpot look at your DAC/DSP and any other main components in your audio chain. Woo uses some very nice power sources in there amps so something like a PPP will not be much help to your Amp, but may make a difference with your source player or DAC/DSP. If you feel the need to do something with your power get one or two Iron Lung Jellyfish power cords, try that power cord first on your source player/DAC/DSP and then on your amp and hear if that makes any difference or not in AQ.
   
  Anyway I can fully understand why you like your EML 274B Mesh Plate, knowing what you Amp and K701's sound like imo the EML 274B mesh is a good match. The mesh plate gives your 701's a very nice bass lift plus you must have a great sound stage. So what I would look for in a power/drive tube is something that is fast and tames the highs, your amp should take care of the mids. You also may want to try a Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord (about the same cost as a set of stock tubes from Jack), this power cord should give your EML 274B a little more speed and maybe help a little bit with your highs of your 701's.


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> This is probably the most obvious question to ask, but did you flip the input switch on the back of the WA22 to accept single ended?  Sorry had to ask.




Hi Mike - thanks for pointing it out but yep, the input switch was set correctly. I think it needs a trip back to the mothership.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's straight from wall, unless you count the Tripplite surge protector.  Power conditioning is one of those things I would need to hear to believe and unfortunately I don't have the means to hear.  If somebody could *completely* convince me that power regeneration truly takes the harshness out of treble then I would save for such a device, but as it is I'm just too skeptical.
> 
> I actually have a pretty forgiving viewpoint on the subject of psycho acoustics.  Whether the difference is real or just in your head doesn't change the fact that you are getting increased satisfaction out of it.    Some things in the audio world are simply decided for me by virtue of being beyond my means.  If I could afford to buy a PS Audio power regenerator I would use that money to buy any number of things that are higher priority on the need/want list instead.
> 
> Having said all that I can't help but wonder from time to time if I'm missing out on the key that unlocks the final door leading to audio nirvana by not exploring the option.  Harshness and forced or "glassy" and "shouty" highs and upper mids have *always* been my problem with headphones and have ruined my enjoyment of them for years.  I've come a long ways with the Woo, though, and am finding quite a bit of enjoyment with it now so it's not all bad as it is right now.


 

 X,
   
  I am in the same boat as you when it comes to harshness and forced glassy and shouty highs.  My experience is that products like the PS Audio power regenerator won't solve that problem completely, but they do go a long way in solving it.  It is also true that those products are expensive.  Their newest P5 is in the neighborhood of $3000.00 and their P10 is up there at around $4000.00.  You can get a used P300 for anywhere from $350 to $700 on Audiogon.
   
  My personal impressions with these products is that all equipment downstream of the power regenerator plays up to its highest potential.  It does not add anything to the mix but it does give you much control over the environment.  For tubes this can be a really big thing.  Here is a case in point.
   
  In my area the power company has bumped up the voltage to 124 volts with increases to 127 volts.  So, in that environment I have my P600 set to 110 volts and I am listening to my new EML and all is sounding really, really good.  I thought I'd try an experiment and plug all of my equipment into the wall.  Immediately I noted that the filliment on the EML was buring much brighter as were all the filliments.  The other thing was that previously I was listening with the volume setting at 4 clicks, and from the wall I had to put it down to two clicks.  The sound was harsh and very compressed and I got those glassy and shouty highs we both hate.  I measured wall voltage at just slightly above 124 volts.
   
  So, after waiting for everything to stabilize and hearing that it was not changing with wall power, I went back to regenerated power, and the music was all back to what I was experiencing before; tone was spot on, all the detail was there so I could hear much, but the harshness on top was gone.  Also gone was that glare and harshness or compressed impression and turning up the volume injected a fullness into the music as opposed to more harshness and glare.
   
  I'm not an expert in electrical engineering, so trying to explain what is going on would be an exersize of simply copying what knowledgable people have written elsewhere and then typing it in here.  There are good articles on the details of what is going on over at PS Audio and at Monarchy Audio and others who make power regenerators.  I read about your issues with top end harshness and I was interested in bringing up an option that might be helpful to you in getting the most from your equipment. 
   
  I totally understand what you mean about budget being the final arbitor of taste, and like you there are other things I would like to buy.  What I found was that I could buy less espensive equipment, and get better sound.  I've had my P600 since 1999, and as my gear evolved over the years, I felt like I was getting the most out of everything.
   
  Anyway, this is just my perspective and experience, for what it's worth.


----------



## Golfnutz

Well, I received a Mullard GZ37 today. Upon arrival, I popped it in the WA22 and let it warm up for about 1.5 hours.  After listening for about 15 minutes, I turned it off.  Just wasn't my cup of tea. The tube itself is fine, the characteristics of the tube isn't what I was looking for.  I had it matched with the Sylvania 7236 and TS 6SN7 BGRP.  After reading other reviews I was hoping the speed and gain of the 7236 would be a good match (was hoping it would change the sound slightly on the side of lushness). However, it just wasn't the case. The tube itself seems to be pretty slow from bottom to top, making the bass a bit muddy and the higher frequencies cut off somewhat. Sound stage was OK, but weaker then the EML.  Listening at lower volumes helped, but in the end I just didn't feel it could compete with the EML on any level. I'll keep the tube (as I said, nothing wrong with it) as a backup in case something happens to the EML and I need something to tie me over until I could get a new one. Actually, I think I prefer the stock tube ($12 Shuguang). My recommendation, save your money and get an EML - highly worth it.


----------



## Caphead78

Agh I just got the shipping notice for my WA6! 
   
  Anyway does anyone know where can I find an adapter for the 6SN7 tubes to fit in the 9 pin socket? Is this even something worth doing?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





caphead78 said:


> Agh I just got the shipping notice for my WA6!
> 
> Anyway does anyone know where can I find an adapter for the 6SN7 tubes to fit in the 9 pin socket? Is this even something worth doing?


 


  Send him a PM  http://www.head-fi.org/user/2359glenn
   
  When I had the WA6, I do like the 6SN7 a lot and to me it is worth it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				Caphead78 said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Agh I just got the shipping notice for my WA6!
> 
> Anyway does anyone know where can I find an adapter for the 6SN7 tubes to fit in the 9 pin socket? Is this even something worth doing?


 
   
  You should PM 2359glenn. I believe that he can make those adapters for you. He's made other adapters for me and I've been extremely happy with the quality of his work.


----------



## lessblue

I was lucky enough to purchase SilentOne's Sophia 274B rectifier, he's moved on to the much better EML.
   
  Are drive tubes that significant? Will be using the 274B with a WA6.


----------



## jerico

I noticed my left channel RCA jack was quite loose.  I tightened it up (by hand) and managed to get some sound through it, but at noticeably lower volume than on the right channel.  To make sure I wasn't going nuts, I connected my DAC simultaneously to the XLR and RCA inputs, and A/B'd them using a pink noise file - the left RCA channel is definitely running at a lower volume.  The XLR inputs are, well, more balanced!  

Jack responded quickly (at at close to midnight last night) and said it sounds like it is some loose wiring, so I sent the amp back to him this morning.  The wait begins again (and me with no way to listen to my LCD2s)!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I noticed my left channel RCA jack was quite loose.  I tightened it up (by hand) and managed to get some sound through it, but at noticeably lower volume than on the right channel.  To make sure I wasn't going nuts, I connected my DAC simultaneously to the XLR and RCA inputs, and A/B'd them using a pink noise file - the left RCA channel is definitely running at a lower volume.  The XLR inputs are, well, more balanced!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm going to be sending my WA22 back to him soon for some additional modifications and I just can't bear to do it yet.  My sympathies.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm going to be sending my WA22 back to him soon for some additional modifications and I just can't bear to do it yet.  My sympathies.


 
   
  From "Top Gun."
   
*Officer*: [_in the midst of the MIG battle_] Both Catapults are broken, sir. 
*Stinger*: How long will it take? 
*Officer*: It'll take ten minutes. 
*Stinger*: bull ten minutes! This thing will be over in two minutes! Get on it! 
   
  Nice to hear that you're up for additional modifications. Can't wait to hear your forthcoming impressions. But, if you're going to do it, you need to get on it! Tax refunds are starting to trickle in. Audio dealers are going to see sales, repairs and orders for custom work increase, now that we're in to March.
   
  If you're going to do it...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm going to be sending my WA22 back to him soon for some additional modifications and I just can't bear to do it yet.  My sympathies.


 

 Goody, goody gumdrops. What kind. Which kind. What of mods, huh? I hope they are ones that will blast your WA22 into the sonic stratosphere--in a good way.


----------



## Xcalibur255

sillysally and mikemalter:  thank you both for your responses.  It has helped me sort  some of my thoughts quite a bit.  

 One thing I do need to do is measure voltage from the outlet my Woo is running on.  I'm curious if it is on the low or high side of the 110-120 range.

 I was considering trying a Signal Cable Magic Power Cord at some point because they get good ink and are not all that expensive, but it would probably happen during the switchover to WA22.  I have a Volex 17604 on the amp now, which compares well against the Iron Lung Jellyfish and is said to be smoother and more relaxed so for now I think I'm doing as well as I can.  Part of the problem is the recording quality of the kinds of music I listen to, something I try to keep in mind.  No amount of high end gear will ever fix a crappy recording.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Goody, goody gumdrops. What kind. Which kind. What of mods, huh? I hope they are ones that will blast your WA22 into the sonic stratosphere--in a good way.


 

 What if he keeps his work to be done, secret, until the next meet? (Silent One looks at calendar, and silently wonders...) Throw in the projected 500 to 700 hour break-in period (depending on Jack's wizardry) and he could leave us wanting, waiting, for a very long time.
   
  What's my motivation? _A rising Woo tide lifts all Woo owners._


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

My WA2 arrived yesterday.  (I thought I'd post this here, rather than the WA2 thread, which sees limited activity these days, and because this thread seems to be for all things Woo...)  I've got it up and running, and wanted to share my first impressions, along with a question or two.
   
  The WA2 is stock, and black.  I also have a Meier Concerto, and my idea was to build a two amp system, using my LCD2s and D7000s with the Concerto, and my HD800s with the WA2.  It's probably too soon to tell, but so far, my HD800s sound better than they ever have.  More bass, and an even wider soundstage.  After getting the LCD2s, the HD800s were getting about 20% of my listening time; now I think it will be back up to 50%, or more.  (And I may have some D7000s up for sale soon . . .)
   
  The WA2 came with GE 6080 power tubes, and unmarked EZ80s, which I think might be Philips, along with unmarked 6922s (just wrapped, no boxes) that I think might be Telefunken, based on the PDF links on the Woo site.  These stock tubes sound fine; I also have a pair of RCA 6AS7Gs that seem to widen the soundstage a bit, and open up the upper midrange, but they have less bass then the GE 6080s.  I realize that all of this may change over time, but I'm liking the sound a lot so far, as well as all of my options now that I have two amps.
   
  By the way, I can run both amps off of the Stage DAC, which is nice.  
   
  I've read all of the WA2 tube rolling threads I could find, but most of that info is 2 years old, or more, and the prices mentioned for a lot of the tube upgrades are certainly not valid anymore.  I got the WA2 so I could get into tube rolling in a bigger way (I had a WA6SE, which didn't offer as many tube options) and I will be looking to experiment with some upgrades.
   
  The Woo site offers some upgraded tubes, but I don't think I want to spend $280 for Amperex 7380s, etc.  I could ask what WA2 owners are using, but if you've had upgraded tubes for awhile, you probably paid a lot less for them than I would have to now; are there any 'bang for the buck' upgrades available these days? I have been especially interested in the Sylvania 7236, which don't seem too pricey yet, and I wonder what the improvement would be there.  I'm assuming, as I've read, that the power tube upgrade will make the most difference, but I'm interested in all options.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> My WA2 arrived yesterday.  (I thought I'd post this here, rather than the WA2 thread, which sees limited activity these days, and because this thread seems to be for all things Woo...)  I've got it up and running, and wanted to share my first impressions, along with a question or two.
> 
> The WA2 is stock, and black.  I also have a Meier Concerto, and my idea was to build a two amp system, using my LCD2s and D7000s with the Concerto, and my HD800s with the WA2.  It's probably too soon to tell, but so far, my HD800s sound better than they ever have.  More bass, and an even wider soundstage.  After getting the LCD2s, the HD800s were getting about 20% of my listening time; now I think it will be back up to 50%, or more.  (And I may have some D7000s up for sale soon . . .)
> 
> ...


 

 For the HD800s, I prefer the Tung-Sol 5998s. Nice warm tube amps with about 15% more power/gain than the stock 6080s. However, for the LCD-2s, I find that I prefer the more SS sounding 7236s (I prefer the Tung-Sols a bit more than the Sylvania here).
   
  For my 6922s, I am running JAN-Sylvanias and Genalex Gold Lions. Both are great IMO. My rectifier tubes are NOS Mullards and sound a bit better than the stock tubes supplied.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> sillysally and mikemalter:  thank you both for your responses.  It has helped me sort  some of my thoughts quite a bit.
> 
> One thing I do need to do is measure voltage from the outlet my Woo is running on.  I'm curious if it is on the low or high side of the 110-120 range.
> 
> I was considering trying a Signal Cable Magic Power Cord at some point because they get good ink and are not all that expensive, but it would probably happen during the switchover to WA22.  I have a Volex 17604 on the amp now, which compares well against the Iron Lung Jellyfish and is said to be smoother and more relaxed so for now I think I'm doing as well as I can.  Part of the problem is the recording quality of the kinds of music I listen to, something I try to keep in mind.  No amount of high end gear will ever fix a crappy recording.


 

 You really don't want to limit your voltage to 110V, if you live in the USA. The standard is between 114V and 126V for what we are talking about. The 110V that Woo is showing is actually about 3% to 5% higher. 120V is ideal because it gives you headroom if the voltage fluctuates up or down. 
   
  Yes you are right about garbage in garbage out, but never say never. Don't kid yourself the right gears can help but still if there is very little info (bits) from the audio there is not much any setup can do.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> You really don't want to limit your voltage to 110V, if you live in the USA. The standard is between 114V and 126V for what we are talking about. The 110V that Woo is showing is actually about 3% to 5% higher. 120V is ideal because it gives you headroom if the voltage fluctuates up or down.
> 
> Yes you are right about garbage in garbage out, but never say never. Don't kid yourself the right gears can help but still if there is very little info (bits) from the audio there is not much any setup can do.


 

 Interesting thought about voltage limits, SS.  Jack Woo emailed me directly and said that I should set the voltage on my P600 to 110 when I asked him what voltage I should set it at.  He said that it was optimal. 
   
  So, if Jack says to set it at 110, why do you say I should not do it?  I'd really like to know the right thing to do, and since you are contradicting something Jack told me to do, I'd be interested in your thinking.
   
  Thank you.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Interesting thought about voltage limits, SS.  Jack Woo emailed me directly and said that I should set the voltage on my P600 to 110 when I asked him what voltage I should set it at.  He said that it was optimal.
> 
> So, if Jack says to set it at 110, why do you say I should not do it?  I'd really like to know the right thing to do, and since you are contradicting something Jack told me to do, I'd be interested in your thinking.
> 
> Thank you.


 
  No I am not contradicting what Jack said, the reason why is I don't know in what contexts he was saying that. Also understand that there are input voltages and output voltage in those documents so that's why I say what context he was using.
  All I am simply going by U.S. government document and standards.that all building codes must follow, and there fore manufactures to make products for the USA also follow these guide lines.
  However sometimes manufactures of things like TV have a power saving mode that uses less voltage or something along those lines, and save you money on your power bill but you will loose some PQ.
  Here you go.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_around_the_world
   
  I do find something strange also, with my PS audio power plant premier it recommends to use 120V output and even if the voltage goes over 120V by a few volts that's better than to low and NP. I think you also have a older PS audio power station so I can't say for sure what the output voltage is with you PS but I can say what PS audio has to say about mine.
  Some manufactures like Oppo really recommends not using any PPP when installing new firmware and yes there are others that say the sane thing.
  Mike please don't take this the wrong way but you are relying that your 13 your old PS is reporting the correct voltage. PPP are one thing I would never buy used.
   
  btw; I see that my PPP is on sale for $1295 and free shipping if you want to upgrade yours.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hope this helps you.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> For the HD800s, I prefer the Tung-Sol 5998s. Nice warm tube amps with about 15% more power/gain than the stock 6080s. However, for the LCD-2s, I find that I prefer the more SS sounding 7236s (I prefer the Tung-Sols a bit more than the Sylvania here).
> 
> For my 6922s, I am running JAN-Sylvanias and Genalex Gold Lions. Both are great IMO. My rectifier tubes are NOS Mullards and sound a bit better than the stock tubes supplied.


 

 Thanks for the response; I've been reading about the Tung-Sol 5998s--even in 2 or 3-year old threads, they are said to be in short supply and increasing in price.  I wonder if there are any out there at a reasonable price any more.  I would like to try them, though, as long as the power increase doesn't add any noise or hum.
   
  I have to say that I'm liking the HD800s more than ever with the WA2.  The only other amps I've heard them through are the Meier Concerto and the WA6SE, and the WA2 seems to be a huge improvement over those, with these headphones.
   
  For the 6922s, I wonder how the Philips 6922 JAN would compare with the JAN-Sylvanias; the Philips are offered on the Woo site as an upgrade, and they are reasonably priced.  It seems that the upgraded tubes on the Woo site are not always the lowest price, but at least I can be sure that the pairs have been tested and matched, and that there can be no-hassle returns/exchanges if necessary.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> No I am not contradicting what Jack said, the reason why is I don't know in what contexts he was saying that. Also understand that there are input voltages and output voltage in those documents so that's why I say what context he was using.
> All I am simply going by U.S. government document and standards.that all building codes must follow, and there fore manufactures to make products for the USA also follow these guide lines.
> However sometimes manufactures of things like TV have a power saving mode that uses less voltage or something along those lines, and save you money on your power bill but you will loose some PQ.
> Here you go.
> ...


 

 Hmmm.  Jack said to set the voltage to 110 for the WA22 because it is optimal.  You posted, "_You really don't want to limit your voltage to 110V, if you live in the USA_."  It looks to me like Jack is saying to do one thing and you are saying to do something different.  The context is simply this: I asked Jack what voltage I should feed the WA22 since I can send between 110 to 120 volts, and he said 110 volts was optimal.
   
  I have a voltage meter and I checked the output of my 13 year old P600 and it reports a slight fluxuation between 110.7 to 110.3 volts.
   
  It's a little fuzzy to my why you would say that that PPP's are the one thing you would never buy used, yet you are alerting me that your used PPP is up for sale?  Well, no matter, thanks but no thanks.  I would buy a used PPP, however PS Audio has recently come out with a next generation power regenerator, and I just ordered one.  It's due in two weeks.  They have a terrific trade up program and the are crediting me $750 for my P600.
   
  From my perspective there may be good reasons why anyone would recommend a different course of action that is advised by a vendor, so thank you for your thoughts.  I want it clear to anyone reading this thread that Jack recommends 110 if you have the means to do so.  In a different email, he said that if you don't have access to equipment that will provide a specific voltage to the WA22, it is not a problem even if the voltage gets up to 124 and a little above.  He said, just make sure the amp is not too hot to the touch.
   
  Following Jack's advice in my own testing, I found a distinct sonic advantage using 110 volts from the P600 vs. 124 volts from the wall.
   
  Thank you for your help and your perspective.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, mikemalter--are you controlling San Rafael's power grid? Or just your WA22? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  At any (PG&E) rate, giving your Woo a proper diet of healthy voltage is the first step. Feeding it a good supply of tubes is of course the second.


----------



## mikemalter

Both!
   
  Yes, and when it comes to tubes, we all know who the master is, ahem, Clayton.


----------



## Clayton SF

Me? Tube master? Nah. Skylab is the Master of that Universe. And I've seen the pictures, too.
   
  Anyway--Lately I've had to put my WA22 on a diet for fear that it get too bloated and I go broke. Tube choices out there are so varied and like any kind of fine dining, the menu of tubes has gotten to long and too expensive, so I'm trying to setting down and settle in on a fixed setup for awhile. Sometimes I get so involved in the _other_ tube combination that I don't really appreciate the current combo. Anyway, have a great day, I'm off to work--down Pine St. to Sansome St. It's another wet, dismal day in the City. But that will all change at 5PM when I head on home to my Woo on the Hill.


----------



## mikemalter

I'm in SF today too.  Interviewing a perspective client.  Wet and yukky.
   
  I know what you are saying about so many choices.  I think I have finally settled on a combination of tubes I really like and have been totally enjoying the music.
   
  Talk to you later.


----------



## Skylab

Red Jacket Mike, there is very little chance that the 6922's that were sent with your WA2 are Telefunken.  Telefunken 6922 equivalents are VERY expensive.  They must be something else.  This is important to know in terms of considering upgrades.


----------



## musicman59

I received Monday a pair of NOS Mullard ECC32 tubes to pair with my EML 300B Mesh and EML 5U4G Mesh in my WA5-LE. I listened to my recabled HD800 and I got floored and then start having eargasms!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The HD800 have never sounded this good. very nice balance in the sound, very detailed and great soundstage with a lot of air in between instruments. The voices are so natural sounding that freaks you out. I know it will sound a a cliche but it is true I heard things that I never heard before in several of my favorite recordings. (I will post pictures later).
   
  After the great experinece with my HD800 I continued with rolling the rest of my dynamic headphones with the same results with all of them. I acutlly feel that I gain in output power and dynamics becuase I noticed the volume knob was lower to achive the same sound that with my other 6SN7 tubes.
   
  Due to that result I was expecting the same improvement paired to my HE-6 but to my surprise it did not happen. Actually they don't sound as good as with my Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7WGT with which sound excellent out of the hihg impedance output. Out of the high impedance output at lower volumes they sound good but if I start raising the volume the amplifier start distorting at about 10 O'clock which is the volume I use with the Sylvania's. using the low impedance volume the amplifier start distorting even before.
   
  I just can not undrestand why the ECC32 are magical with the dynamic headphones but have a negative effect with the HE-6. I sent Jack an email today to see if he has an explanation.


----------



## Skylab

Could be a gain issue, perhaps. the ECC32 has a lower amplification factor than a real 6SN7.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Red Jacket Mike, there is very little chance that the 6922's that were sent with your WA2 are Telefunken.  Telefunken 6922 equivalents are VERY expensive.  They must be something else.  This is important to know in terms of considering upgrades.


 

 Thanks for the info; I'll have to take a closer look in daylight.  I guess I assumed they might be Telefunken because when you click on the PDF file for the stock tubes on the WA2 page of the Woo website, the 6922 link takes you to a Telefunken spec sheet.  
   
  I'll post a picture later; maybe you or someone can identify these if I can't find any markings on them.


----------



## Skylab

OK that makes sense,and for sure the tubes you got wouldn't be TFKN just due to his link. Real NOS Telefunken E88CC tubes sell for about $200-$250 a pair.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK that makes sense,and for sure the tubes you got wouldn't be TFKN just due to his link. Real NOS Telefunken E88CC tubes sell for about $200-$250 a pair.


 
  Well, on closer inspection (first inspection, really; I didn't look at all when first putting the tubes in--just at the bottoms for pin orientation) I see that the rectifiers are United Electric, made in Germany.
   
  The 6922s are totally unmarked; they did not even come in a box-they were just wrapped in foam packing with no labeling at all.  Any way to tell what they are?  Possibly they are new tubes?  The glass looks quite clear.  
   
  Here are some pics:
   

   
  The left and center images are of the same rectifier tube; the unmarked 6922 is on the right.


----------



## Skylab

If I am seeing it right (a little hard to tell from the pic), the getter on the 6922 is a cup-style, and that means 100% for sure they are Russian.  Personal opinion is that you can do much, much better.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





skylab said:


> If I am seeing it right (a little hard to tell from the pic), the getter on the 6922 is a cup-style, and that means 100% for sure they are Russian.  Personal opinion is that you can do much, much better.


 

 Well, that's why I got this amp, I guess; lots of tube options.  What would you suggest, halfway between these and, for example, the top-of-the-line Amperex, price wise?  I've read some good things about JAN Sylvanias; also ElectroHarmonix.  Thanks in advance for any other suggestions.
   
  These drive/preamp tubes are so tiny, it seems a shame to have to spend a lot of money on them...at least when I had the WA6SE, the rectifiers got larger the more I spent ...


----------



## Skylab

I like the JAN Sylvania as a great price-performance tube. I personally use Mullard CV2492's in my WA2, but they are about $150/pair these days.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I like the JAN Sylvania as a great price-performance tube. I personally use Mullard CV2492's in my WA2, but they are about $150/pair these days.


 



 I agree with Rob. The JAN Sylvanias are great tubes for the price....and a step up from the JAN Philips IMO.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hmmm.  Jack said to set the voltage to 110 for the WA22 because it is optimal.  You posted, "_You really don't want to limit your voltage to 110V, if you live in the USA_."  It looks to me like Jack is saying to do one thing and you are saying to do something different.  The context is simply this: I asked Jack what voltage I should feed the WA22 since I can send between 110 to 120 volts, and he said 110 volts was optimal.
> 
> I have a voltage meter and I checked the output of my 13 year old P600 and it reports a slight fluxuation between 110.7 to 110.3 volts.
> 
> ...


 
  I am not saying it the USA government is saying it. Do what you want all I know is you have had problems with your tubes and now with your WA22.
  As far as what Jack is saying, he may be saying to use the 110/220V setting on your Woo, I don't know as I said before. What I do know is he should be following the USA guidelines and of that I am sure he is.
  I would suggest you start by reading that link I gave you and then follow other links, so you will understand what I am saying.
   
  No I am not selling my PPP, what I said is you can buy a new PPP for as little as $1299 shipped.
  
   


  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I received Monday a pair of NOS Mullard ECC32 tubes to pair with my EML 300B Mesh and EML 5U4G Mesh in my WA5-LE. I listened to my recabled HD800 and I got floored and then start having eargasms!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I am also waiting for Jack to reply to you about the HE-6.
  I do think you may end up answering this question because of your tube rolling. As you know I use a pair of WE300B's and if I roll some different 300B's or drive tubes the sound signature of the HE-6 changes completely. Now I am doing a little cable rolling with the Wire World cables and just by using the Supernova  6 I am having to use the trim level setting (-7 but still testing) in my BD-95 for the SW, also I am start playing with the LFE Ch roll off using settings in my Realiser to better accommodate the HE-6's.
  As far as the HD-800's go in the WA5/LE, yes they are much more versatile with tube combo's than the HE-6.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I like the JAN Sylvania as a great price-performance tube. I personally use Mullard CV2492's in my WA2, but they are about $150/pair these days.


 
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I agree with Rob. The JAN Sylvanias are great tubes for the price....and a step up from the JAN Philips IMO.


 

 I was looking at both the JAN Sylvanias and JAN Philips, so I'll take your advice and try the Sylvanias.  Looks like several places have them in the $30-$35 range for a matched pair.
   
   I've also seen the Mullard CV2492 at tubemonger.com for $125 for a matched pair-I don't know anything about that dealer, though; has anyone here purchased from them?


----------



## nyrocker

Bump!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I was looking at both the JAN Sylvanias and JAN Philips, so I'll take your advice and try the Sylvanias.  Looks like several places have them in the $30-$35 range for a matched pair.
> 
> I've also seen the Mullard CV2492 at tubemonger.com for $125 for a matched pair-I don't know anything about that dealer, though; has anyone here purchased from them?


 
   
  I have bought tubes from tubemonger, with good results.


----------



## SDMAN

Well, I officially became a member of the WOO owners group (WOG?) a couple hours ago. Paypal'd a WA22, in silver with both inputs setup as balanced. The next 2 weeks will go by very slowly. Ill pass the time by gathering some tubes. My T1's are out to get a balanced cable conversion. Hopefully those are back about the same time.


----------



## baka1969

i just put in a pair of GE 6DR7 tubes and an RCA marked JAN 5R4GY rectifier in my 6SE. It sounds nice right out of the box. I'll say more after I've had some time with them but I like the combo so far.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I am not saying it the USA government is saying it. Do what you want all I know is you have had problems with your tubes and now with your WA22.
> As far as what Jack is saying, he may be saying to use the 110/220V setting on your Woo, I don't know as I said before. What I do know is he should be following the USA guidelines and of that I am sure he is.
> I would suggest you start by reading that link I gave you and then follow other links, so you will understand what I am saying.
> 
> ...


 


   The Wireworld cables have less resiantance than other cables that's why you have to reduce the level. I switched to Eclipse 6 in my system and really like them. The Zeus headphone cables are made of the same OCC Wireworld cables inside the Eclipse 6.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I am not saying it the USA government is saying it. Do what you want all I know is you have had problems with your tubes and now with your WA22.
> As far as what Jack is saying, he may be saying to use the 110/220V setting on your Woo, I don't know as I said before. What I do know is he should be following the USA guidelines and of that I am sure he is.
> I would suggest you start by reading that link I gave you and then follow other links, so you will understand what I am saying.
> 
> No I am not selling my PPP, what I said is you can buy a new PPP for as little as $1299 shipped.


 

 Dear Silly,
   
  I am not having any problems, past or present with my tubes and I am a little shocked that you are bringing that up since the system administrator deleted your posts on the tubes issues.  I am also not having any problems with my WA22 either, and I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.
   
  I have been very clear on this.  As I have written before, and I will write it yet again; Jack Woo said to use the 110 voltage setting out of my P600. You are the one who has posted not to use 110 in your answer to Xcalibur255, "*You really don't want to limit your voltage to 110V, if you live in the USA*."


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sdman said:


> Well, I officially became a member of the WOO owners group (WOG?) a couple hours ago. Paypal'd a WA22, in silver with both inputs setup as balanced. The next 2 weeks will go by very slowly. Ill pass the time by gathering some tubes. My T1's are out to get a balanced cable conversion. Hopefully those are back about the same time.


 

 SDMAN,
   
  Welcome to the club.  What tubes are you looking at?


----------



## mikemalter

I just had a really interesting experience with the new EML.  Never saw this before, and maybe it always did this.  Here is what happens.  The filliment will get brighter or dimmer based on the position of the volume control.  The louder I turn up the volume, the brighter the filliment gets.
   
  I don't notice that behavior on the other tubes.
   
  The other thing I notice is that after a piece of music stops and during the pause between the start of the next piece of music, the filliment also dims to almost nothing.
   
  Anyone know why that would be?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sdman said:


> Well, I officially became a member of the WOO owners group (WOG?) a couple hours ago. Paypal'd a WA22, in silver with both inputs setup as balanced. The next 2 weeks will go by very slowly. Ill pass the time by gathering some tubes. My T1's are out to get a balanced cable conversion. Hopefully those are back about the same time.


 

 Two weeks! You only have to wait two weeks before your WA22 is delivered? Wow. Jack must really have his assembly processes streamlined. That is really great to hear!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From "Top Gun."
> 
> *Officer*: [_in the midst of the MIG battle_] Both Catapults are broken, sir.
> *Stinger*: How long will it take?
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Goody, goody gumdrops. What kind. Which kind. What of mods, huh? I hope they are ones that will blast your WA22 into the sonic stratosphere--in a good way.


 


   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> What if he keeps his work to be done, secret, until the next meet? (Silent One looks at calendar, and silently wonders...) Throw in the projected 500 to 700 hour break-in period (depending on Jack's wizardry) and he could leave us wanting, waiting, for a very long time.
> 
> What's my motivation? _A rising Woo tide lifts all Woo owners._


 

 I'm going to have Jack add a preamp section with balanced outputs on the rear my WA22 so I can listen through my speakers.  It can be done now through the headphone jacks, but it's not really that good.  The whole speaker thing is probably best done through the WA5 which is designed for that.  But, sometimes I would rather have some music in my office over speakers. 
   
  I find that headphone music pulls my attention and it is a little harder to think critically when solving technical problems.  But, if the music is low over speakers, it can be more of a background thing.  So, I'm going in that direction.  It is going to cost a little north of $200, but I think it's worth it.
   
  Just now that I have my new EML in and all tubes are finally settled down and broken in (almost I only have 28 hours on the EML but it's sounding sweet as honey), I so don't want to send anything out.  Maybe I'll wait a month or so before I send it in for the mods.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Two weeks! You only have to wait two weeks before your WA22 is delivered? Wow. Jack must really have his assembly processes streamlined. That is really great to hear!


 

 I agree; my recently arrived WA2 took only 1 week.


----------



## Caphead78

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I agree; my recently arrived WA2 took only 1 week.


 

 My WA6 shipped three days after I ordered it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just had a really interesting experience with the new EML.  Never saw this before, and maybe it always did this.  Here is what happens.  The filliment will get brighter or dimmer based on the position of the volume control.  The louder I turn up the volume, the brighter the filliment gets.
> 
> I don't notice that behavior on the other tubes.
> 
> ...


 



 I can't say I have ever noticed my EML tube doing this.  I'll look for it the next time I have it in the amp.  My amp probably places a lesser power demand on the tube than a WA22 does so perhaps my own experience isn't even applicable.


----------



## SDMAN

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SDMAN,
> 
> Welcome to the club.  What tubes are you looking at?
> 
> Mike,   Well, all of them  I suppose. This is my very first piece of tube gear. My home theatre is all SS. This headphone setup is for work. Im a printed circuit board designer, so I work sitting in front of a computer most days. And starting late next week were going into about 4-5 months of approved overtime (meaning... paid). So I want to get this setup on-line ASAP. Ive read all of the 'which tubes' posts for the WA22 and will likely start with the EML5U4G rectifier, the Schuang Treasures for the drivers and GEC6AS7G for the powers. And Ill go from there. I really appreciate your, as well as other WA22 users, informative posts. I was initially going to go SS on the headphone setup but the amount of tube info and other data available on this site convinced me to give tubes a try. Something I have always wanted to do. Will add a CD player, and the Jolida JD-100 tube player looks pretty good. Jack said it paired very nicely with the WA22.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just had a really interesting experience with the new EML.  Never saw this before, and maybe it always did this.  Here is what happens.  *The filliment will get brighter or dimmer based on the position of the volume control. * The louder I turn up the volume, the brighter the filliment gets.
> 
> I don't notice that behavior on the other tubes.
> 
> ...


 


  How much brighter are you talking about?  I don't think I've ever noticed anything like that with my Woo3.
   
  USG


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm going to have Jack add a preamp section with balanced outputs on the rear my WA22 so I can listen through my speakers.  It can be done now through the headphone jacks, but it's not really that good.  The whole speaker thing is probably best done through the WA5 which is designed for that.  But, sometimes I would rather have some music in my office over speakers.
> 
> I find that headphone music pulls my attention and it is a little harder to think critically when solving technical problems.  But, if the music is low over speakers, it can be more of a background thing.  So, I'm going in that direction.  It is going to cost a little north of $200, but I think it's worth it.
> 
> Just now that I have my new EML in and all tubes are finally settled down and broken in (almost I only have 28 hours on the EML but it's sounding sweet as honey), I so don't want to send anything out.  Maybe I'll wait a month or so before I send it in for the mods.






  I'm assuming powered monitors, what kind?


  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just had a really interesting experience with the new EML.  Never saw this before, and maybe it always did this.  Here is what happens.  The filliment will get brighter or dimmer based on the position of the volume control.  The louder I turn up the volume, the brighter the filliment gets.
> 
> I don't notice that behavior on the other tubes.
> 
> ...






   
  I have not noticed that behavior with my WA22/EML 5U4G.


----------



## Double F

3 day delivery on the wa2!  Wow, thats great.  I waited over a month for mine.  This is the way it should be.  Places that are making people wait 2 years for amps should go to Jack for productivity lessons!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Well, the economy is on a slight upturn, hopefully; perhaps they're building a few of the popular models ahead of time, or at least partially building them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sdman said:


> will likely start with the EML5U4G rectifier, the Schuang Treasures for the drivers and GEC6AS7G for the powers. And Ill go from there.


 
  No offense intended, but I had to chuckle at that last bit for a second.   
   
  If you start with that there arguably isn't anywhere else to go from there.  You can interchange the treasures with the Tung Sol round plate, otherwise you just named what are widely held to be the best sounding tubes the WA22 can be outfitted with.  If you aren't into tube rolling for the experience of it then you have a fine plan in place, otherwise I think it might be more rewarding to try a more modest tube combination first and then "graduate" to the best.  At least while the amp is breaking in.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sdman said:


> will likely start with the EML5U4G rectifier, the Schuang Treasures for the drivers and GEC6AS7G for the powers. And Ill go from there.


 
  No offense intended, but I had to chuckle at that last bit for a second.   
   
  If you start with that there arguably isn't anywhere else to go from there.  You can interchange the treasures with the Tung Sol round plate, otherwise you just named what are widely held to be the best sounding tubes the WA22 can be outfitted with.  If you aren't into tube rolling for the experience of it then you have a fine plan in place, otherwise I think it might be more rewarding to try a more modest tube combination first and then "graduate" to the best.  At least while the amp is breaking in.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Double post.  The forum servers really seem to be struggling lately.
   
  edit: *blinks* wow and then it turned the post I was editing into a completely new third one.


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm going to have Jack add a preamp section with balanced outputs on the rear my WA22 so I can listen through my speakers.  It can be done now through the headphone jacks, but it's not really that good.  The whole speaker thing is probably best done through the WA5 which is designed for that.  But, sometimes I would rather have some music in my office over speakers.
> 
> I find that headphone music pulls my attention and it is a little harder to think critically when solving technical problems.  But, if the music is low over speakers, it can be more of a background thing.  So, I'm going in that direction.  It is going to cost a little north of $200, but I think it's worth it.
> 
> Just now that I have my new EML in and all tubes are finally settled down and broken in (almost I only have 28 hours on the EML but it's sounding sweet as honey), I so don't want to send anything out.  Maybe I'll wait a month or so before I send it in for the mods.


 


  
  hey Mike, just wanted to tell you how much i LOVE the PREAMP function (on my WA2).
  i've got audioengine2's hooked up to it.
   
  after months of getting used to it, i can't listen to my A2's without the warm/thick/3d sound of the WOO.


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote:


mikemalter said:


> I just had a really interesting experience with the new EML.  Never saw this before, and maybe it always did this.  Here is what happens.  The filliment will get brighter or dimmer based on the position of the volume control.  The louder I turn up the volume, the brighter the filliment gets.
> 
> I don't notice that behavior on the other tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 I have never experienced this with any prior EML's or any of the many rectifier tubes I have used over the years for that matter. 
   
  I would contact Jack to see what his take is on this, the new current " fourth revision" of the EML 5U4G is supposed to make it a more rugged and reliable tube but regardless of the great sound I can't see this being normal behavior. 
   
  Please keep us posted Mike on any info. 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> How much brighter are you talking about?  I don't think I've ever noticed anything like that with my Woo3.
> 
> USG


 

 At two clicks from 0, the filliment is thin and blends somewhat with the screen.  When I go louder, say 4 or 5 clicks from 0, then the filliment gets brighter so I can see the entire structure of it.  When the music pauses, then the filliment brightness fades considerably to a point that is similiar to when the volume is at two clicks.  When the music starts again the volume stays the same, but then the filliment slowly gets brighter.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have not noticed that behavior with my WA22/EML 5U4G.


 

 Well, I'm feeding my Audio Research VT100 amplifier.  It has balanced inputs and I am driving a pair of Vandersteen speakers.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> hey Mike, just wanted to tell you how much i LOVE the PREAMP function (on my WA2).
> i've got audioengine2's hooked up to it.
> 
> after months of getting used to it, i can't listen to my A2's without the warm/thick/3d sound of the WOO.


 

 What Jack is going to do is wire my WA22 up so it can feed an amplifier that will drive a pair of speakers.  However, after reading your post, you got me thinking, maybe I should ask if I could simply get a pair of speaker binding posts and directly drive a pair of speakers.   I'm going to email him tonight, thanks!


----------



## LAmitchell

just got my quad of TUNG SOL 5998's in the mail (paid $150 on ebay)
   
  plugged two of em in my WA2 and so far i am realllllyyyyy enjoying the sound...
   
   
  it's like the "room" got bigger... there's more space/air.
   
  i know i'm not saying anything NEW, but it feels good to FINALLY hear
  what all the TUNG SOL 5998 fuss was about!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> The Wireworld cables have less resiantance than other cables that's why you have to reduce the level. I switched to Eclipse 6 in my system and really like them. The Zeus headphone cables are made of the same OCC Wireworld cables inside the Eclipse 6.


 
  Glad to hear you like the WW interconnects, I should have mine later today.
   
  The HE-6 cable is also the same OCC, Peter sent me this picture last night when he finished making it the way I asked him to. I wanted the cup cable ends to be as short as possible so not to hit my shoulders when I am in my recliner along with flexibility and as lite as possible. 
  
   

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Dear Silly,
> 
> I am not having any problems, past or present with my tubes and I am a little shocked that you are bringing that up since the system administrator deleted your posts on the tubes issues.  I am also not having any problems with my WA22 either, and I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.
> 
> I have been very clear on this.  As I have written before, and I will write it yet again; Jack Woo said to use the 110 voltage setting out of my P600. You are the one who has posted not to use 110 in your answer to Xcalibur255, "*You really don't want to limit your voltage to 110V, if you live in the USA*."


 
  Please chill out. I am glad you think your power setup is right for you, that's great.
   
  Please understand that it's not me saying this it's the USA Government pointing this out, so please don't take this personal as its not coming from me. However you may want to take this up with the USA Government and get them to change there guidelines.
  I think you may want to add to your post that the "system administrator" deleted your posts on this particular set of tubes also. Also please understand that I did not use bold text and underline in my post that you are quoiting me from. That kind of text and underline can be considered as aggressive and argumentative and that was not and is not my intent.
   
  Anyway i have PM you as was suggested by the "system administrator" (Jude I am not calling you system administrator) in hopes of helping you.
  btw, did you try and plug your amp into a wall outlet and see if the glowing oddity goes away.
   
  Peace.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> No offense intended, but I had to chuckle at that last bit for a second.
> 
> If you start with that there arguably isn't anywhere else to go from there.  You can interchange the treasures with the Tung Sol round plate, otherwise you just named what are widely held to be the best sounding tubes the WA22 can be outfitted with.  If you aren't into tube rolling for the experience of it then you have a fine plan in place, otherwise I think it might be more rewarding to try a more modest tube combination first and then "graduate" to the best.  At least while the amp is breaking in.


 


  You forget the Brimar CV1988, IMHO, it is better than the Treasures.  He must have some good contact to get the GEC 6AS7G, I have been trying to get another pair for a long while and unable to find a perfect NOS pair.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> At two clicks from 0, the filliment is thin and blends somewhat with the screen.  When I go louder, say 4 or 5 clicks from 0, then the filliment gets brighter so I can see the entire structure of it.  When the music pauses, then the filliment brightness fades considerably to a point that is similiar to when the volume is at two clicks.  When the music starts again the volume stays the same, but then the filliment slowly gets brighter.


 
  Hey, mikemalter--Does this happen when running it from your PS Audio at 110v? Does it do the same thing when running it at 120v?
   
  Maybe your new EML is a "mood" rectifier--changing the ambient lighting of your room in time with the music.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You forget the Brimar CV1988, IMHO, it is better than the Treasures.  He must have some good contact to get the GEC 6AS7G, I have been trying to get another pair for a long while and unable to find a perfect NOS pair.


 

 There are a LOT of 6SN7's better than the Treasures, IMHO.


----------



## Icenine2

MM,
   
  I did not notice anything here with my EML on the 22 and I have the latest version.  Clayton is right about you getting the mood tube.  Maybe yours is the latest* " Double Secret Probation Lava Lamp Rheostat EML Tube "*
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just had a really interesting experience with the new EML.  Never saw this before, and maybe it always did this.  Here is what happens.  The filliment will get brighter or dimmer based on the position of the volume control.  The louder I turn up the volume, the brighter the filliment gets.
> 
> I don't notice that behavior on the other tubes.
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There are a LOT of 6SN7's better than the Treasures, IMHO.


 


 I agreed.  For some odd reason it does very well with LCD-2, but without the lush/romantic sound of Brimar.  The more I use the metal base GZ34, the more I like it.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There are a LOT of 6SN7's better than the Treasures, IMHO.


 
   
  Agreed! I kept saying to myself "after the burn-in period they will sound better". That time came and gone. I couldn't sell mine fast enough.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





balderon said:


> Agreed! I kept saying to myself "after the burn-in period they will sound better". That time came and gone. I couldn't sell mine fast enough.


 

 I kept mines even I don't like it as much as my other 6SN7 tubes, just give me more options to roll.  Plus I got it at fleabay for a very good price.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





balderon said:


> Agreed! I kept saying to myself "after the burn-in period they will sound better". That time came and gone. I couldn't sell mine fast enough.


 

 Same.  I was not impressed.  It's not that they were BAD, but they were really all that good.  For sure they are a very, very far cry from a REAL ECC32/CV181.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I kept mines even I don't like it as much as my other 6SN7 tubes, just give me more options to roll.  Plus I got it at fleabay for a very good price.


 
   
  Very interesting you say that. I sold mine on fleabay (at a loss) to a person in Andover, MA. One can't help but wonder if you're the buyer?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





balderon said:


> Very interesting you say that. I sold mine on fleabay (at a loss) to a person in Andover, MA. One can't help but wonder if you're the buyer?


 


 Nope, I purchase mines new from a guy in HK.  I think I paid a little over $125 for a match premium pair.


----------



## dminches

That's a good price.  They are almost double that new.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Please chill out. I am glad you think your power setup is right for you, that's great.
> 
> Please understand that it's not me saying this it's the USA Government pointing this out, so please don't take this personal as its not coming from me. However you may want to take this up with the USA Government and get them to change there guidelines.
> I think you may want to add to your post that the "system administrator" deleted your posts on this particular set of tubes also. Also please understand that I did not use bold text and underline in my post that you are quoiting me from. That kind of text and underline can be considered as aggressive and argumentative and that was not and is not my intent.
> ...


 
   
  Ah SillySally, I think I am starting to understand you.  Yes, I would probably have more success taking up power guideline changes with the United States government than getting you to stay on topic.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yeah, Jude did delete my posts in that thread.  Apologies if you took the underlining of your comment as agressive and argumentative which was not my intent.  I thought that underlining and bolding what you had said in an earlier post would bring you back to context.  And, thank you for your PM, it helped me to see your perspective very clearly.
   
  Peace to you too.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, mikemalter--Does this happen when running it from your PS Audio at 110v? Does it do the same thing when running it at 120v?
> 
> Maybe your new EML is a "mood" rectifier--changing the ambient lighting of your room in time with the music.


 

 I'm going to look into it.  I have been keeping it at 110, but will try it today.
   
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> MM,
> 
> I did not notice anything here with my EML on the 22 and I have the latest version.  Clayton is right about you getting the mood tube.  Maybe yours is the latest* " Double Secret Probation Lava Lamp Rheostat EML Tube "*


 

 I was thinking the same thing as you guys, that my EML is doubling as a lava lamp.  I can turn the lights down and have my own light show.  Too bad the colors do not change.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If I can figure out how to get the correct settings on my camera, I'll post some pictures.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Glad to hear you like the WW interconnects, I should have mine later today.
> 
> The HE-6 cable is also the same OCC, Peter sent me this picture last night when he finished making it the way I asked him to. I wanted the cup cable ends to be as short as possible so not to hit my shoulders when I am in my recliner along with flexibility and as lite as possible.
> 
> ...


 


   Yes, Peter makes good cables. I Have the DHC Complement in my HD800. They are more exensive than the Aphrodite cables thou with similar wire and perfromance but a good choice anyway.


----------



## SDMAN

Well, I dont actually know the availability of these tubes. This is just info I got from this website. I have a local tube warehouse and I was going to get them involved. And Im more into listening to the music than messing around with the tubes. Not that Ill never do it, just not much of a tweaker. Set it and forget it whenever you can. Simplify. But thats just me.


----------



## Icenine2

I had my T-1's plugged in with 1/4" plug in the WA22 and by mistake pulled the cord a bit.  My signal went weak and I could see the plug not perpendicular to the face plate.  Moved the cord back and it disappeared.  Asked Jack Wu and he said some of the 1/4" plugs on the T-1's were a little smaller thus causing this.  Don't know.  The TRS never seemed really solid to begin with.  When you plug into my old HeadRoom it is super solid.   I do know after this I'm shipping these to Moon Audio to have dual XLR's for termination.  Let's not digress into the balanced/not issue here.  Anyone else experience this?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I had my T-1's plugged in with 1/4" plug in the WA22 and by mistake pulled the cord a bit.  My signal went weak and I could see the plug not perpendicular to the face plate.  Moved the cord back and it disappeared.  Asked Jack Wu and he said some of the 1/4" plugs on the T-1's were a little smaller thus causing this.  Don't know.  The TRS never seemed really solid to begin with.  When you plug into my old HeadRoom it is super solid.   I do know after this I'm shipping these to Moon Audio to have dual XLR's for termination.  Let's not digress into the balanced/not issue here.  Anyone else experience this?


 

 I have noticed that the single ended cable I have has a "wiggle" connection issue on my WA22 as well.  I tried the same single ended cable in a few other pieces of gear and it fits snugly, the connection on the WA22 seems the loosest.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I had my T-1's plugged in with 1/4" plug in the WA22 and by mistake pulled the cord a bit.  My signal went weak and I could see the plug not perpendicular to the face plate.  Moved the cord back and it disappeared.  Asked Jack Wu and he said some of the 1/4" plugs on the T-1's were a little smaller thus causing this.  Don't know.  The TRS never seemed really solid to begin with.  When you plug into my old HeadRoom it is super solid.   I do know after this I'm shipping these to Moon Audio to have dual XLR's for termination.  Let's not digress into the balanced/not issue here.  Anyone else experience this?


 

 I won't say that any pair of headphones sound better balanced or not, but the WA22 sure does, especially if you are using balanced inputs. It's not the first time I have read about physical weaknesses with the TRS socket on it, mine feels a bit on the loose side as well.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have noticed that the single ended cable I have has a "wiggle" connection issue on my WA22 as well.  I tried the same single ended cable in a few other pieces of gear and it fits snugly, the connection on the WA22 seems the loosest.


 

 My single ended cable is a good tight fit. No wiggle room here. My WA22 was built in October of 2009. It's almost a 1-1/2 years old! 
   
  Well I ordered it in October and it was delivered in December so it really isn't quite that old yet. That was an eight-week wait. Whew!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My single ended cable is a good tight fit. No wiggle room here. My WA22 was built in October of 2009. It's almost a 1-1/2 years old!
> 
> Well I ordered it in October and it was delivered in December so it really isn't quite that old yet. That was an eight-week wait. Whew!


 

 Eight weeks!  That is a long time, but I am sure worth the wait.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Eight weeks!  That is a long time, but I am sure worth the wait.


 

 I know. Eight weeks was a long long time for me to wait. Jack originally gave me a six-week estimate before I ordered it. Then they discovered that the WA22 chassis were defective and had to wait for the new chassis to arrive which delayed the production. Later when the amp was completed and ready to be shipped, Jack had to wait again because an order of rectifiers didn't arrive on time so that pushed back the ship date as well. Jack kept me up to date on its build process and back then--in 2009--a six week wait was the norm. So an additional two weeks seemed nothing. Of course building the amp during the holiday months probably didn't help either.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You forget the Brimar CV1988, IMHO, it is better than the Treasures.  He must have some good contact to get the GEC 6AS7G, I have been trying to get another pair for a long while and unable to find a perfect NOS pair.


 

 I'm about to find out what the fuss is over the Brimar CV1988 as I type this actually, though mine are not the rare black glass variety.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I would contact Jack to see what his take is on this, the new current " fourth revision" of the EML 5U4G is supposed to make it a more rugged and reliable tube but regardless of the great sound I can't see this being normal behavior.


 

 Vinyll, would you happen to know if the EML 274B tubes are receiving these design updates too, or is it focused solely on the 5U4G tube?  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

This is a bit off topic, but we are all friends here who share.
   
  Our home town newspaper had a pun contest this last week.  I sent in ten entries and hoped that one would win, but no pun in ten did.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This is a bit off topic, but we are all friends here who share.
> 
> Our home town newspaper had a pun contest this last week.  I sent in ten entries and hoped that one would win, but no pun in ten did.


 
  A bit off topic? Waaaaay off topic.
   
  Har de har har har. (That's the old and long version of LOL.) I had to read the last 5 words 2x and slowly before I got it. Thanks for making my Friday a little more kooky--hehehe.


----------



## emremusic

I recently bought a Woo Audio 6SE with upgrades. I'm using it with AKG 702s and Lossless/Apogee Duet as source.
   
  I love my system and I'm having a great time rediscovering my collection. I'm not planning on an upgrade anytime soon.
   
  But with all the time I'm spending on this forum, I'm getting curious about the how it can sound any better. 
   
  Can someone tell me what the sonic difference between the two amps:  WA5-LE VS WA6-SE??
   
  The Woo Audio website comparison chart uses terms like Glorious, Fine and Great.. It all sounds Glorious to me. 
   
  Also is the difference between the two amps worth the price tag, is it That audiable?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I recently bought a Woo Audio 6SE with upgrades. I'm using it with AKG 702s and Lossless/Apogee Duet as source.
> 
> I love my system and I'm having a great time rediscovering my collection. I'm not planning on an upgrade anytime soon.
> 
> ...


 

 My amp is the WA22 which is in the middle and I would use those terms; glorious, fine and great - along with others to describe my listening experience.  There is a richness and rightness to the sound that I stop listening for different components of the sound, and let the music come through.  It is so right that I stop listening for what could be wrong and let it in.  It's the best piece of gear I have ever owned. 
   
  To add to that, this thread is very rewarding to Woo users because there are people here that are highly knowledgable about tubes and so forth and they are willing to share their experiences and you get the benefit of that.  Of all of the audio boards, this is the one I hang out on, and this thread especially.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've never seen that comparison chart, it must be fairly new. 
   
  It was also informative.  So Jack says the WA22 is the most euphonic amp he makes, even more so than a WA5.  That put to rest my final concern over wanting to upgrade to one.  The chart seems particularly helpful for upgraders, actually, as it helps to show where gains can be made.  So the WA6 has the weakest dynamics of any Woo amp, something my ears have been telling me is a weakness of the amp from day one.  The difference in power output is also less than I was expecting, especially the normal output on the WA5.  I do wish that part of the chart were more detailed, as it seems to be a best case scenario sort of thing with the WA22, WA6SE and WA6 all using the highest gain version of their tubes rather than the "standard" tube complement.  I'd like to know what my amp does with a 6DE7 (or in my case a 6SN7 actually) too, but in the end they are just numbers and while it is nice to know it certainly isn't a necessity.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've never seen that comparison chart, it must be fairly new.
> 
> It was also informative.  So Jack says the WA22 is the most euphonic amp he makes, even more so than a WA5.  That put to rest my final concern over wanting to upgrade to one.  The chart seems particularly helpful for upgraders, actually, as it helps to show where gains can be made.  So the WA6 has the weakest dynamics of any Woo amp, something my ears have been telling me is a weakness of the amp from day one.  The difference in power output is also less than I was expecting, especially the normal output on the WA5.  I do wish that part of the chart were more detailed, as it seems to be a best case scenario sort of thing with the WA22, WA6SE and WA6 all using the highest gain version of their tubes rather than the "standard" tube complement.  I'd like to know what my amp does with a 6DE7 (or in my case a 6SN7 actually) too, but in the end they are just numbers and while it is nice to know it certainly isn't a necessity.


 

 I'd never heard of the word euphonic before.  So the WA22 has a surreal euphonic quality to it.  Cool.


----------



## grokit

I'd never seen that chart either, it's nice to know that the WA22 is capable of higher headphone output wattage (for the non-K1000/speaker jack outputs) at all nominal impedances than the WA5/LE is. Surprisingly, the WA6LE is capable of even higher wattage into these same impedances. The WA22 maximum ratings are using the 7236 power tubes, wouldn't it be even higher with the 5998s?


----------



## Drake22

I am hoping to join the ride soon too  Trading my w5000 for wa6 with pdps and sophia.


----------



## Skylab

Well, that chart explains why I have always felt that the WA6 drives the LCD-2 as well as the WA-2 does, even though other people have sworn I was nuts. The WA6 outputs slightly more power into the LCD-2's impedance as the WA2 does. And both are about half a watt, which is much more than I need for the levels I listen at.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I like the JAN Sylvania as a great price-performance tube. I personally use Mullard CV2492's in my WA2, but they are about $150/pair these days.


 
   
   
  Well between Rob' s "planting the seed" and Frank's "closing" today...looks like you guys have spent some more of my money.


----------



## WindyCityCy

What chart are you guys referring to?  Is it in the thread?


----------



## Drake22

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> What chart are you guys referring to?  Is it in the thread?


 


http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I recently bought a Woo Audio 6SE with upgrades. I'm using it with AKG 702s and Lossless/Apogee Duet as source.
> I love my system and I'm having a great time rediscovering my collection. I'm not planning on an upgrade anytime soon.
> But with all the time I'm spending on this forum, I'm getting curious about the how it can sound any better.
> Can someone tell me what the sonic difference between the two amps:  WA5-LE VS WA6-SE??
> ...


 
   

Well, I guess I am unusual in that I am going from a WA5 to a WA22.  I used the WA5 as my primary speaker amp for a while but couldn't seem to find any high efficiency speakers that I liked.  Tried 4 pair.  I finally decided I just don't care for the sound signature of high efficiency drivers.  So - Although the WA5 is an incredible amp, I sold it (to Audiogalore) and replaced it with a Cary SLI-80 Sig F1 for speakers (and headphones) and for a complement, a WA22 which will be here next week.
   
For you guys that have a WA22 and have considered / wondered about upgrading to a WA5 / LE, I should be able to give some feedback on that in a week or two.  I do have a balanced dac now (W4S) and balanced hp cables arriving next week also.  Tubes coming - Tung Sol 5998's, Tung Sol 5u4g, Sylvania 6sn7 GT brown base.  Can't wait!  I eventually plan to get an EML 5u4g and some TSBGRP but I am tapped at the moment.  Will have to wait a while on those.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, that chart explains why I have always felt that the WA6 drives the LCD-2 as well as the WA-2 does, even though other people have sworn I was nuts. The WA6 outputs slightly more power into the LCD-2's impedance as the WA2 does. And both are about half a watt, which is much more than I need for the levels I listen at.


 


  If I recall correctly you prefer the 6FD7 in your WA6 right?  That should be the best case scenario for power output on the WA6, just a tiny bit higher even than the 6DR7 used in Jack's chart.  If the tube gain corresponds directly to output (I'm taking a leap on that one) then it would mean power output using a 6DE7 or 6EW7 is only a third of what is shown on the chart.  I'm not certain if my understanding is correct though.
   
  edit:  oops, I had it backwards on the 6FD7.  It has a gain of 64 vs. 68 for a 6DR7 or 6CY7.  And the 6DE7 and 6EW7 has a gain of 17.5 so 1/3 power should be right.  I think the 6SN7 is 20 so the difference between it and a 6DE7 would be minimal.  Of course if gain and power output are not directly related I'm totally off base here.


----------



## sillysally

My WA6SE had a problem with a loose phone jack, the loose phone jack caused my SE male phone jack to work off and on and the 1/4" plug would wobble.
   
  Anyway its not hard to tighten, just remember to hold the female phone jack from the inside of your Woo, because if you tighten from the outside you may turn the whole female jack assembly on the inside of your Woo. There is a possibility to cause a wire contacting the jack to come loose from the jack inside of the Woo turning.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Well, I guess I am unusual in that I am going from a WA5 to a WA22.  I used the WA5 as my primary speaker amp for a while but couldn't seem to find any high efficiency speakers that I liked.  Tried 4 pair.  I finally decided I just don't care for the sound signature of high efficiency drivers.  So - Although the WA5 is an incredible amp, I sold it (to Audiogalore) and replaced it with a Cary SLI-80 Sig F1 for speakers (and headphones) and for a complement, a WA22 which will be here next week.
> 
> For you guys that have a WA22 and have considered / wondered about upgrading to a WA5 / LE, I should be able to give some feedback on that in a week or two.  I do have a balanced dac now (W4S) and balanced hp cables arriving next week also.  Tubes coming - Tung Sol 5998's, Tung Sol 5u4g, Sylvania 6sn7 GT brown base.  Can't wait!  I eventually plan to get an EML 5u4g and some TSBGRP but I am tapped at the moment.  Will have to wait a while on those.


 

 Davo,
   
  Glad to hear you are getting a WA22, welcome to the club.  I see you have an LCD-2 and an HD800.  I'd be interested in your take on the differences between the two.  I'd also like to know what you think about the TS 5998's.


----------



## emremusic

About the WooAudio's new comparison chart,
  I can understand all the different qualtiesof the amps that can be measured, resolution of tone, dynamic response etc...
   
  But how do they measure euphonia? Wouldn't an amp with a greater resolution of tone, soundstage result in greater euphonia? That is the only aspect on there that is not scientific, and subjective.
   
  I'm curious why they consider WA22 to be more euphonic WA5LE even though wa5le is rated higher in other aspects.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> About the WooAudio's new comparison chart,
> I can understand all the different qualtiesof the amps that can be measured, resolution of tone, dynamic response etc...
> 
> But how do they measure euphonia? Wouldn't an amp with a greater resolution of tone, soundstage result in greater euphonia? That is the only aspect on there that is not scientific, and subjective.
> ...


 
   
  At-a-glance~

 You could say the same for the WA6SE / WA2 columns. To me, it seems that it comes down to Woo's Topology, Tube Composition and execution. Have yet to hear a '5' but hearing a '22' does sound really sweet to my ears...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If I recall correctly you prefer the 6FD7 in your WA6 right?  That should be the best case scenario for power output on the WA6, just a tiny bit higher even than the 6DR7 used in Jack's chart.  If the tube gain corresponds directly to output (I'm taking a leap on that one) then it would mean power output using a 6DE7 or 6EW7 is only a third of what is shown on the chart.  I'm not certain if my understanding is correct though.
> 
> edit:  oops, I had it backwards on the 6FD7.  It has a gain of 64 vs. 68 for a 6DR7 or 6CY7.  And the 6DE7 and 6EW7 has a gain of 17.5 so 1/3 power should be right.  I think the 6SN7 is 20 so the difference between it and a 6DE7 would be minimal.  Of course if gain and power output are not directly related I'm totally off base here.


 


  For sure there is more power on tap with the 6FD7 I use than the stock 6DE7.    Maybe I have to try a 6DR7, but the difference in amplification factor is pretty small.  For anyone who has NOT tried the 6FD7 in the WA6, you really should.  Great sounding tube, dirt cheap, and does add power and dynamics to the WA6.


  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> About the WooAudio's new comparison chart,
> I can understand all the different qualtiesof the amps that can be measured, resolution of tone, dynamic response etc...
> 
> But how do they measure euphonia? Wouldn't an amp with a greater resolution of tone, soundstage result in greater euphonia? That is the only aspect on there that is not scientific, and subjective.
> ...


 

 I actually took the subjective ratings on their chart as being somewhat tongue-in-cheek, in terms of the words they chose.  But the actual stats are very interesting though.  It's fascinating what a power-monster the WA6-SE can be!  Too bad that where I use my WA6, there is no room for a 6SE.


----------



## leesure

Thanks for that chart...really helkpful.  No wonder Jack recommended the 6SE foir my orthos.  As to the 'Euphonc', I'm guessing they are referring to the 'tubey' sound.  In my limited experience, the transformer coupled amps have less of that tubey warmth than OTL designs...that chart seems to agree.


----------



## Icenine2

After reading " The List " we should probably be drooling over the WES.  I've never had the opportunity to listen to electrostatics.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Davo,
> 
> Glad to hear you are getting a WA22, welcome to the club.  I see you have an LCD-2 and an HD800.  I'd be interested in your take on the differences between the two.  I'd also like to know what you think about the TS 5998's.


 

 Thanks Mike!  I'll let you know something after I spend some time with the amp / tubes.


----------



## shipsupt

What is the difference between the high and low outputs on the WE6SE? I generally understand the difference between high and low impedance headphones and the relative needs for volts or amps. When you have an "inefficient" but relatively low impedance headphone like the HE-5/6, for example, would selecting the low output actually offer more amps to drive them? Or in the case of an inefficient low impedance headphone would you go with the high output? I guess I need to understand what effect different gain settings have from an amp, or simply put I guess I don't really understand what gain is exactly? 

From some of the more recent post I am coming to understand that I will need to learn how tube selection will affect power output.

I am asking this question because my HE-5LE's will arrive this week and after hearing so much about what it takes to drive them I want to know how I should connect them. I have in the past found that I often prefer the sound at a higher gain setting on my amps even with some IEM's and low impedance headphones, but I have selected on what I like to hear, not with the real knowledge of what the cause and effect is.

I was hesitant to go with an HE because of all that I've read about properly driving the 5's and especially the 6's and almost decided to order and wait for the LCD2's, but after listening to the 5's at a recent meet on the SE(I really enjoyed them) and after reading some good reports of them being adequately driven by the SE I am hopeful my Woo will be up to the task!


----------



## Vladid

Hi chaps, I am a fresh owner of a beautiful WA6SE with all shiny upgrades. Now I am facing a bit of an issue. The amp is producing a constant light buzzing / noise in my D7000 cans, which is independent from the amp being plugged into a source. I switched out the 6EW7 from the Sylvania to the GE flavor with the same result. Switching the Sophia out didn't change anything either. 
   
  Any idea what gives?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

The HE-5 are louder out of the high-gain plug for a given attenuation step than out of the low-gain plug.  IMO, the difference isn't enough, and if I cared to spend the shipping and labor cash, I would probably send my unit back and ask for the low-gain plug to be even lower.  This is using AFAIK the quietest tubes as well (6EW7).  Other tubes, like the 6CY7 are really too loud; I don't know for certain, but I bet with those tubes a HE-6 would work just fine out the high-gain on a WA6SE and hopefully I get a chance to test this one day. 
   
  I'm sure that the info is in this thread somewhere, but I believe that 6SN7 tubes w/ adaptor would put even more volume through the amp.
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> What is the difference between the high and low outputs on the WE6SE? I generally understand the difference between high and low impedance headphones and the relative needs for volts or amps. When you have an "inefficient" but relatively low impedance headphone like the HE-5/6, for example, would selecting the low output actually offer more amps to drive them? Or in the case of an inefficient low impedance headphone would you go with the high output? I guess I need to understand what effect different gain settings have from an amp, or simply put I guess I don't really understand what gain is exactly?
> 
> From some of the more recent post I am coming to understand that I will need to learn how tube selection will effect power output.
> 
> ...


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by Vladid 

 "Hi chaps, I am a fresh owner of a beautiful WA6SE with all shiny upgrades. Now I am facing a bit of an issue. The amp is producing a constant light buzzing / noise in my D7000 cans, which is independent from the amp being plugged into a source. I switched out the 6EW7 from the Sylvania to the GE flavor with the same result. Switching the Sophia out didn't change anything either. 
 Any idea what gives?
 Thanks!"


 One possibility could be a ground loop issue. I had one and used cheater plugs on all the audio gear and removed them one at a time until I found the culprit. It was my laptop causing the issue. So I removed the cheater plugs from the other components and left it on the laptop's power cord.

 It's one option anyway.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





vladid said:


> Hi chaps, I am a fresh owner of a beautiful WA6SE with all shiny upgrades. Now I am facing a bit of an issue. The amp is producing a constant light buzzing / noise in my D7000 cans, which is independent from the amp being plugged into a source. I switched out the 6EW7 from the Sylvania to the GE flavor with the same result. Switching the Sophia out didn't change anything either.
> 
> Any idea what gives?
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  I had a WA6SE that mysteriously developed a slight hum; after trying everything, I finally tracked it down to the wall outlet.  I have several outlets in my home where the top receptacle is controlled by a nearby wall switch, so a table or floor lamp can be turned on/off from that wall switch.
   
  I had all of my gear plugged in to a power conditioner, which was then plugged in to the unswitched bottom receptacle of one of these outlets.  While trying to isolate the problem, I plugged the amp in to a similar outlet in another room, where the problem, of course, was the same.
   
  It wasn't until I finally plugged the amp in to a receptacle where neither outlet of the pair was controlled by a wall switch that the hum went away.


----------



## sillysally

Don't know about the HE-5's but the HE-6 using my max WA6SE will not properly power the HE-6's. Yes you have enough volume but you will never hear what the HE-6 can really do. The only headphone amp that I know about that can properly power the HE-6's is the WA5/LE from the low imp or the high imp and also the XLR jack in the WA5.


----------



## Vladid

Thanks baka1969 and Mike!
   
  All my audio components are hanging on a Furman PL-8C conditioner and I am using a pretty decent PS Audio power cable for the WA6SE. The wall outlet is not switched, but I am definitely going to try the amp in another room to see if that helps.


----------



## Golfnutz

Anyone have any experience with Sylvania 6sn7gt VT-231's from the 50's (non bad boy, but look similiar) vs 6sn7wgta's from the 60's (brown based)?  Is either any good? Which one is better? Thanks.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Don't know about the HE-5's but the HE-6 using my max WA6SE will not properly power the HE-6's. Yes you have enough volume but you will never hear what the HE-6 can really do. The only headphone amp that I know about that can properly power the HE-6's is the WA5/LE from the low imp or the high imp and also the XLR jack in the WA5.


 


  I think the WA22 would be good for it as well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sanjosecanjunkie said:


> T
> 
> I'm sure that the info is in this thread somewhere, but I believe that 6SN7 tubes w/ adaptor would put even more volume through the amp.


 
  6SN7 output is comparable to the 6DE7/6EW7.  It is technically higher gain, but the difference is slight, not like the 6FD7/6CY7/6DR7 which produces a substantial increase in output.


----------



## Hi-Five

Well, I can't comment on the subtleties of the sound that may be missing, but to my ears the WA6SE drives my HE5-LEs beautifully. They are easily the least efficient set of cans in my collection, but I have a pretty hot source so I have no problems with gain using 6de7/6ew7 tubes. I find the presentation to be very, very good compared to my VHP-2 or out of my backup preamp's headphone jack. That said, I have not heard the HE5-LEs on a more powerful amp.
   
  In any case, I have no doubt you will find the 5s are a pretty sweet match with your amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey EML 5U4G mesh plate ppl (second version). My big fat tube is beginning to darken a little. It must have barely 300 hours on it. It's just a slight graying on the inside of the tube--soot-like. Is anyone else's EML tube starting to show signs of premature gray?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey EML 5U4G mesh plate ppl (second version). My big fat tube is beginning to darken a little. It must have barely 300 hours on it. It's just a slight graying on the inside of the tube--soot-like. Is anyone else's EML tube starting to show signs of premature gray?


 

 I have just about 50 hours on mine and no soot yet.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Almost the entire inside of my EML 274B darkened over time.  It was like it gave itself a window tint job.  You can even see streaking around the area where the glass curves into the dome because the burned off getter didn't drift through the tube evenly.  There is no part of the glass that looks completely clear on mine anymore, and I doubt I have more than 300 hours on mine overall since I am always swapping it out for other tubes to make comparisons or just mix things up.


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

Ah, thanks for the info.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 6SN7 output is comparable to the 6DE7/6EW7.  It is technically higher gain, but the difference is slight, not like the 6FD7/6CY7/6DR7 which produces a substantial increase in output.


 

 Also, I don't know about the EML, but the Sophia turned pretty darn dark w/o a ton of time, maybe 4-500 hours?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Good to know that it darkens over time. I got mine last summer and I've been swapping it in and out out too.
   
  Skylab's suggestion to look for reasonably priced NOS 5U4G paid off. I just ordered a couple NOS RCA 5U4G black plates for under $60. I've never rolled the RCA coke bottle tubes before.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Good to know that it darkens over time. I got mine last summer and I've been swapping it in and out out too.
> 
> Skylab's suggestion to look for reasonably priced NOS 5U4G paid off. I just ordered a couple NOS RCA 5U4G black plates for under $60. I've never rolled the RCA coke bottle tubes before.


 

 Silent notes ~
   
  Sophia Princess 274B Mesh - 10 Days @ hours 75,  entire bottom third already covered.  EML 5U4G Mesh - 27 days @ hours 136, a very small trace of silver covering at the very bottom on one side; hardly noticeable. The EML glass must be enjoying relations with the 6SE... _and music._


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Almost the entire inside of my EML 274B darkened over time.  It was like it gave itself a window tint job.  You can even see streaking around the area where the glass curves into the dome because the burned off getter didn't drift through the tube evenly.  There is no part of the glass that looks completely clear on mine anymore, and I doubt I have more than 300 hours on mine overall since I am always swapping it out for other tubes to make comparisons or just mix things up.


 


  Same here.  But these days I like sophia with the T1 while EML with the grado and others.  So the EML gets less worn.


----------



## Clayton SF

That's good that you're appreciating the Sophia's magic. I've seen a drop in usage. Or a drop in reporting its usage. I hear more about the EML than the Sophia even though the Sophia was the first "mesh" (bullet ridden) plate that I had heard about.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Good to know that it darkens over time. I got mine last summer and I've been swapping it in and out out too.
> 
> Skylab's suggestion to look for reasonably priced NOS 5U4G paid off. I just ordered a couple NOS RCA 5U4G black plates for under $60. I've never rolled the RCA coke bottle tubes before.


 


  After spending some quality time with my Tung Sol I've decided the 5U4G sound just isn't for me.  It places vocals too far forward in the mix for my tastes.  A nice tube otherwise but I am always thinking the singer needs to take a step back while listening to it.  I am a huge fan of the Brimar 5R4GY I picked up last month though.  I find the 5R4 tubes to be similar sounding to a 274B in many ways, all good ones too.  Folks who aren't willing to spend $250 on the EML 274B have a pretty nice runner-up option in the Brimar IMO.


----------



## Clayton SF

I really like the 5R4. Why is it that a 5R4GY sounds better than a 5R4GYA (subjective of course). In other words, why are the ST tubes (coke bottle) preferred over the tubular ones? I wonder how they came about designing those coke bottle tubes. I'd really like to go back in time to see a tube engineer (is that what they called them?) sit down in front of his drawing board the day the he decided that the glass envelope would work better shaped like this. Okay--I digress. OT. But a fascinating topic to me none the less.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I really like the 5R4. Why is it that a 5R4GY sounds better than a 5R4GYA (subjective of course). In other words, why are the ST tubes (coke bottle) preferred over the tubular ones? I wonder how they came about designing those coke bottle tubes. I'd really like to go back in time to see a tube engineer (is that what they called them?) sit down in front of his drawing board the day the he decided that the glass envelope would work better shaped like this. Okay--I digress. OT. But a fascinating topic to me none the less.


 

 I'm starting to grow curious about our counterparts overseas - what might a fine valve from France or Britain sound like in the 6SE? I recall someone in this space mentioning the Mullard ECC32 sounding rather lush... _I like lush_. But I also like clean, low-end freqs.
   
  Hopefully lush & low-end aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone know if I could have it all (_my cake and eat it too!_) with the Mullard?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm starting to grow curious about our counterparts overseas - what might a fine valve from France or Britain sound like in the 6SE? I recall someone in this space mentioning the Mullard ECC32 sounding rather lush... _I like lush_. But I also like clean, low-end freqs.
> 
> Hopefully lush & low-end aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone know if I could have it all (_my cake and eat it too!_) with the Mullard?


 

 If you like lush, try Brimar CV1988 with NOS Mullard GZ34.


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA22 has an ever so faint hum that is coming out of the left channel. I can only hear it when music isn't playing or during silent passages. It's more prominent with my HD650 and almost nonexistent with the AKG701 and DT990 600 ohm. When I use the 5R4 it is virtually gone on all headphones. Go figure. =/ Right now I am listening to the HD650 and a 5Z4; it lifts the HD650 veil.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Lush and the Brimar CV1988 would seem to be limited only to the grey and black glass variety.  The pair of clear glass ones I picked up have been a disappointment.  They sound dry and closed in, with weak bass and the occasional bite on the top end to seal the deal.  Perhaps more burn in will change the story, but I'm not counting on it.  They were alarmingly harsh when new and have settled a lot, so I think this is about what I'll get from them, which makes them the least desirable 6SN7 in my collection at the moment.  The golden rule appears to be if you want something seductive and lush sounding don't bother looking past the 40's and early 50's for it because it doesn't exist anymore.


----------



## Silent One

edit-


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Lush and the Brimar CV1988 would seem to be limited only to the grey and black glass variety.  The pair of clear glass ones I picked up have been a disappointment.  They sound dry and closed in, with weak bass and the occasional bite on the top end to seal the deal.  Perhaps more burn in will change the story, but I'm not counting on it.  They were alarmingly harsh when new and have settled a lot, so I think this is about what I'll get from them, which makes them the least desirable 6SN7 in my collection at the moment.  The golden rule appears to be if you want something seductive and lush sounding don't bother looking past the 40's and early 50's for it because it doesn't exist anymore.


 

 Were you ever able to hear the grey/black glass varieties after your experience with the clear glass tubes?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's good that you're appreciating the Sophia's magic. I've seen a drop in usage. Or a drop in reporting its usage. I hear more about the EML than the Sophia even though the Sophia was the first "mesh" (bullet ridden) plate that I had heard about.


 

 Oh no Sophia wasn't the first mesh rectifier the 80 mesh plate globe tube from the 1930s was the first. The 80 is a 5Y3 in a 4 prong tube. The 80 is predecessor to the 5Y3.
  I use one in my preamp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Were you ever able to hear the grey/black glass varieties after your experience with the clear glass tubes?


 


  Not as of yet.  My comment is based on what I've read of the tubes, and I should have been more clear on that.  I tend to do that without realizing it unfortunately. 
   
  To be honest, I am done buying 6SN7 now.  I have the TSRP and the Bad Boy Sylvania, both exceptional tubes.  I was hoping to find something a little sweeter than the Bad Boy to suit my K701s in the Brimar, but it didn't turn out that way.  Perhaps the black glass version is exactly what I wanted, but I'm not spending that kind of money to find out.


----------



## Icenine2

Wow,
   
  I thought maybe you guys were breathing too much tube gas or something with the colorizations but............my EML 5U is getting a tad silver on the bottom.  About 125 hours or more.  Here's a thought..........tube timers!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Silent notes ~
> 
> Sophia Princess 274B Mesh - 10 Days @ hours 75,  entire bottom third already covered.  EML 5U4G Mesh - 27 days @ hours 136, a very small trace of silver covering at the very bottom on one side; hardly noticeable. The EML glass must be enjoying relations with the 6SE... _and music._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Wow,
> 
> I thought maybe you guys were breathing too much tube gas or something with the colorizations but............my EML 5U is getting a tad silver on the bottom.  About 125 hours or more.  Here's a thought..........tube timers!


 

 After seeing my comments again, clearly I must have been in a 'Woo - induced' state when making them...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> After seeing my comments again, clearly I must have been in a 'Woo - induced' state when making them...


 

 Sometimes, I have hawoocinations.


----------



## DavidMahler

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sometimes, I have hawoocinations.


 
  hahaha!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sometimes, I have hawoocinations.


 

 You think maybe some of us here are showing classic symptoms of separation (away from our Woo too long)? Given enough fresh drinking water on hand, would it be better to be without food for 3 days or you Woo for 3 months? (As Silent One looks into his tea bowl "mid-steep," he silently ponders...)


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, SilentOne. Hitting that Woolong tea again?


----------



## grokit




----------



## bergnerm

Oh man... just received my upgraded WA2... almost a spiritual experience. The Sylvania 7236 NOS indicate a packing date of 5-63. Amazing to have a tube fire up for the first time in nearly 50 years. I'm sure the people that packed this tube never dreamed an audiophile in the year 2011 would be raving about it. There is a peculiar smell of the tubes heating up that I recall from my early childhood, but haven't experienced since then. The heat from them slowly helps warm my music room in the basement
   
  I know I'm supposed to let the amp burn in for 100+ hrs, but the opening hours are amazing... I've been working thru my four and five starred selections... utilizing my DAC, which is a NewForce Icon HDP... not top of the line, I know, but very respectable. Fantastic tunes christen the new amp: The Dogs of War (Pink Floyd); the Dream of Gerontius by Stephen Roberts, Rimsky-Korsakov: The Snow Maiden-Dance of the Tumblers (HDtracks), among others.
   
  I'm thoroughly impressed !


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, SilentOne. Hitting that Woolong tea again?


 

 We be chasing the Dragon! (Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearl Green Tea) And watching the Lady Huskies (UCONN) play basketball. But, when night falls, along with surface and street noises, it's 'Woo Time!'


----------



## Hi-Five

I would have to guess that the ST envelope reflects less heat if it's larger (i.e. further from the filament), because ideally the anode should be "cold."
   
  Plus it just looks cool anyway!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ..... I'd really like to go back in time to see a tube engineer (is that what they called them?) sit down in front of his drawing board the day the he decided that the glass envelope would work better shaped like this. ......


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Oh man... just received my upgraded WA2... almost a spiritual experience. The Sylvania 7236 NOS indicate a packing date of 5-63. Amazing to have a tube fire up for the first time in nearly 50 years. I'm sure the people that packed this tube never dreamed an audiophile in the year 2011 would be raving about it. There is a peculiar smell of the tubes heating up that I recall from my early childhood, but haven't experienced since then. The heat from them slowly helps warm my music room in the basement.
> 
> I know I'm supposed to let the amp burn in for 100+ hrs, but the opening hours are amazing... I've been working thru my four and five starred selections... utilizing my DAC, which is a NewForce Icon HDP... not top of the line, I know, but very respectable. Fantastic tunes christen the new amp: The Dogs of War (Pink Floyd); the Dream of Gerontius by Stephen Roberts, Rimsky-Korsakov: The Snow Maiden-Dance of the Tumblers (HDtracks), among others.
> 
> I'm thoroughly impressed !


 
   
  Resurrection? I bet engineers and contractors had no idea... None! And may have assumed that whatever new technology came along, tubes would get replaced (kicked to the curb!) and no one would care to look back. Your photographs are ooozing with joy - welcome to the club. The very first track I played on my WA6SE was from a Jazz Bassist who hails from Mexico City - "Holidays" by Abraham Laboriel.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Oh man... just received my upgraded WA2... almost a spiritual experience. The Sylvania 7236 NOS indicate a packing date of 5-63. Amazing to have a tube fire up for the first time in nearly 50 years. I'm sure the people that packed this tube never dreamed an audiophile in the year 2011 would be raving about it. There is a peculiar smell of the tubes heating up that I recall from my early childhood, but haven't experienced since then. The heat from them slowly helps warm my music room in the basement
> 
> I know I'm supposed to let the amp burn in for 100+ hrs, but the opening hours are amazing... I've been working thru my four and five starred selections... utilizing my DAC, which is a NewForce Icon HDP... not top of the line, I know, but very respectable. Fantastic tunes christen the new amp: The Dogs of War (Pink Floyd); the Dream of Gerontius by Stephen Roberts, Rimsky-Korsakov: The Snow Maiden-Dance of the Tumblers (HDtracks), among others.
> 
> I'm thoroughly impressed !


 

 Awesome photos!  Love reading comments from new Woo owners.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Great photos--I have had my new WA2 for about 10 days now, and I'm loving mine as well.  Also using it with HD800s.  I also have the Sylvania 7236 power tubes.  This setup has me listening to my HD800s more than ever.  
   
  I previously had a WA6SE, which didn't play to the HD800s strengths like the WA2 does.  I think this pairing is an excellent one.
   
  On a slightly related note, I have a chance to get a pair of Tung Sol 5998s; I know these are slightly higher gain tubes, and I'm wondering if anyone using these in a WA2 or WA22 finds that they hum at all, or if there is any other downside to the higher gain.  My first priority for tubes is that they are totally quiet.


----------



## Skylab

5998's do not hum at all in my WA2.


----------



## oldwine

so do i, i have both Tung-Sol 5998 and 7236, both does no cause any hums.
   
  However, when i use it with DT880, i prefer using 7236 more, as giving an overall balance in my system while 5998 is a bit sweet to me.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Great photos--I have had my new WA2 for about 10 days now, and I'm loving mine as well.  Also using it with HD800s.  I also have the Sylvania 7236 power tubes.  This setup has me listening to my HD800s more than ever.
> 
> I previously had a WA6SE, which didn't play to the HD800s strengths like the WA2 does.  I think this pairing is an excellent one.
> 
> On a slightly related note, I have a chance to get a pair of Tung Sol 5998s; I know these are slightly higher gain tubes, and I'm wondering if anyone using these in a WA2 or WA22 finds that they hum at all, or if there is any other downside to the higher gain.  My first priority for tubes is that they are totally quiet.


 

 FWIW, (and I'm new to this hobby), I have two different pairs of 5998s for my WA22. One is an IBM branded pair, the other is a TS 5998 pair NOS in very old original boxes. Now I know only Tung Sol made 5998s, and maybe the IBM are not the same as far as age/quality/hours go, but my new TS branded 5998s are awesome. The IBMs do have some noise or hum or whatever it is it's objectionable.
   
  To summarize; it may not be the type of tube that causes objectionable noise, but the condition of the specific tubes.
   
  The Tung Sol 7236 is becoming my favorite power tube. I now use TS 5998s or TS 7236 with either a TS 6SN7GT BGRP or Sylvania 6SN7W metal base. drivers, all using the only rectifier I have...EML 5U4G mesh.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> FWIW, (and I'm new to this hobby), I have two different pairs of 5998s for my WA22. One is an IBM branded pair, the other is a TS 5998 pair NOS in very old original boxes. Now I know only Tung Sol made 5998s, and maybe the IBM are not the same as far as age/quality/hours go, but my new TS branded 5998s are awesome. The IBMs do have some noise or hum or whatever it is it's objectionable.
> 
> To summarize; it may not be the type of tube that causes objectionable noise, but the condition of the specific tubes.
> 
> The Tung Sol 7236 is becoming my favorite power tube. I now use TS 5998s or TS 7236 with either a TS 6SN7GT BGRP or Sylvania 6SN7W metal base. drivers, all using the only rectifier I have...EML 5U4G mesh.


 


  You like the TS 5998 over your GEC 6AS7G?  I like the TS 5998 over the GEc 6AS&G only when I use LCD-2 but with HD800, the GEC is till my flavor.


----------



## shipsupt

Just wanted to say thanks for the replies to my question about the high and low gain outputs on the 6SE.  Supports and adds to what I read previously about the specific issue of the HiFiMAN line up.  My brief first listen last night told my ears more of the same!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I was still curious about how gain is actually adjusted in this unit and what effect it actually has, but after some more research it seems to me that power output is not changed, gain is essentially just a volume control.  If that's the case... I've answered my origial question.
   
I read a post earlier that the owners manuals are avaialble electronically.  I baught my unit used so I did not receive a manual.  If it's appropriate I was hoping someone can direct me to a manual or send one via e-mail?   Thanks, already had a response on this one.
   

 Thanks,
 Chris
   
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Don't know about the HE-5's but the HE-6 using my max WA6SE will not properly power the HE-6's. Yes you have enough volume but you will never hear what the HE-6 can really do. The only headphone amp that I know about that can properly power the HE-6's is the WA5/LE from the low imp or the high imp and also the XLR jack in the WA5.


 


   


  Quote: 





sanjosecanjunkie said:


> The HE-5 are louder out of the high-gain plug for a given attenuation step than out of the low-gain plug.  IMO, the difference isn't enough, and if I cared to spend the shipping and labor cash, I would probably send my unit back and ask for the low-gain plug to be even lower.  This is using AFAIK the quietest tubes as well (6EW7).  Other tubes, like the 6CY7 are really too loud; I don't know for certain, but I bet with those tubes a HE-6 would work just fine out the high-gain on a WA6SE and hopefully I get a chance to test this one day.
> 
> I'm sure that the info is in this thread somewhere, but I believe that 6SN7 tubes w/ adaptor would put even more volume through the amp.


 


   


  Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Well, I can't comment on the subtleties of the sound that may be missing, but to my ears the WA6SE drives my HE5-LEs beautifully. They are easily the least efficient set of cans in my collection, but I have a pretty hot source so I have no problems with gain using 6de7/6ew7 tubes. I find the presentation to be very, very good compared to my VHP-2 or out of my backup preamp's headphone jack. That said, I have not heard the HE5-LEs on a more powerful amp.
> 
> In any case, I have no doubt you will find the 5s are a pretty sweet match with your amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

I love my RCA 6AS7G. I replaced them with a matched pair of NOS Mullard 6080 and they hum like nothing I've ever heard. So I pulled them out after about 50 hours. It's a shame because they sound so wonderful (and looks so regal) until I turn the volume up on quieter recordings. They hum like a swarm of bees (that don't know the words to the song).


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I love my RCA 6AS7G. I replaced them with a matched pair of NOS Mullard 6080 and they hum like nothing I've ever heard. So I pulled them out after about 50 hours. It's a shame because they sound so wonderful (and looks so regal) until I turn the volume up on quieter recordings. They hum like a swarm of bees (that don't know the words to the song).


 


  Did you test them before use?


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes. They tested very strong with no shorts, grid leakage, and excellent Life Test using my serviced and calibrated Sencore TC-28 tube tester.


----------



## rosgr63

Only drawback is that the Sencore TC28 Hybrider hasn't got any noise tests.
  Still they should perform well.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You like the TS 5998 over your GEC 6AS7G?  I like the TS 5998 over the GEc 6AS&G only when I use LCD-2 but with HD800, the GEC is till my flavor.


 

 jc, my GEC 6as7's died almost immediately after I got them, so I couldn't tell you how they sound.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> jc, my GEC 6as7's died almost immediately after I got them, so I couldn't tell you how they sound.


 

 Did you contact Lorenz and get your money back?  Let me know if I can help.  Did you pick up GEC 6080?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Only drawback is that the Sencore TC28 Hybrider hasn't got any noise tests.
> Still they should perform well.


 

 I own another tube tester that has headphones to test for microphonics. The headphones are from the 1950s. The phones came sealed in a military packet and had never seen the light of day until I opened them last year. The headphones, however, will not reveal humming, only microphonics when the tube being tested is tapped lightly with something.
   
  Oh, yes. Besides the hum at very high volume, the tubes perform very well.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did you contact Lorenz and get your money back?  Let me know if I can help.  Did you pick up GEC 6080?


 


 I wish I had got them from Lorenz. He still has none as far as I know.I did ask him to let me know if he got some, but you know yourself how rare they are.
  I got them from an eBay seller who did send me one replacement tube (different style GEC 6AS7G), but now I find out that the other one of the original pair is also going bad.
   
  I did get some very fine GEC 6080 from Lorenz though!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Only drawback is that the Sencore TC28 Hybrider hasn't got any noise tests.
> Still they should perform well.


 
  And pray tell me, which tube tester do you use and/or recommend to test tubes for noise?


----------



## rosgr63

I use the following:
  B&K 606, B&K 747B, Jackson 648P, Hickok 533A, Sencore TC28, TV7-D/U.
  The very best check is your amp. If you can ensure a tube is safe to use then your amp is the real and final test.
  There is no better tester to evaluate a tube than the TC28 with the best industry Grid Leakage test at 100Meg.
  The Life Test should last at least a minute to give time to the filament to cool down.
  Finally some tubes may test bad but they can sound wonderful and last a long time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Just wanted to say thanks for the replies to my question about the high and low gain outputs on the 6SE.  Supports and adds to what I read previously about the specific issue of the HiFiMAN line up.  My brief first listen last night told my ears more of the same!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Online Manual - I have one for the WA6SE. If you've not heard back from Woo Audio yet, PM your email and I'll send it to you. 
   
  Silent One


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I use the following:
> B&K 606, B&K 747B, Jackson 648P, Hickok 533A, Sencore TC28, TV7-D/U.
> The very best check is your amp. If you can ensure a tube is safe to use then your amp is the real and final test.
> There is no better tester to evaluate a tube than the TC28 with the best industry Grid Leakage test at 100Meg.
> ...


 
   
  Wow! You own TV7-D/U. Cool!
   
  You're absolutely right about tubes testing BAD. I have a matching pair of used Mullard EL34 that tests VERY BAD and they sound really wonderful when used in my power amp. They've been going strong for a long time and they still test VERY BAD when I do check on them. LIFE TEST is also BAD. Go figure. I only throw them out when they have a short--OF COURSE!


----------



## grokit

I get no hum or buzz at all with either the TS 5998 or the SYL 7236 power tubes in my WA22. The person that sold me the amp told me I would get an "annoying buzz" after about half an hour with the Sophia 274b "Princess" rectifier, but I have not been able to duplicate that issue so far (knocks on wood) either.
   
  I'm still trying to find a tube combo that can optimize the LCD-2 and HD800 at the same time, easier said than done as they seem to have completely different needs.
   
  Right now I have the TSRP drivers with the 7236 for power and the EML 5U4G rectifier, they work nicely with both the LCD-2 and the HD600; I am "in between" HD800s for now anyways. But the HD600 sounds great with the 7236 tubes, while I prefer the 5998s with the HD800. It's an interesting puzzle-type dilemma, next I will try the Princess again and I have some Bad Boys on the way that should be here soon.
   
  When I get another HD800 I will start taking more detailed notes, but ATM I am liking the balanced HD600 quite a bit and love the LCD-2 as always so no hurry.


----------



## Golfnutz

Also, keep in mind that noisy tubes in one type of system may actually not be noisy in another.  Sometimes it just depends on the circuitry of the system.  For me, nothing beats the 7236. The price is 1/7th the cost of GEC 6AS7G.  There aren't that many differences (to justify spending 7x the amount of money). GEC's are smoother for sure, but I like the higher gain of the 7236 - which I tend to enjoy for the type of music I listen to.  I'd really like to try a cheaper pair of NOS RCA JAN 6AS7G'S, but have a feeling I would just go back to the 7236's anyway.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 5998's do not hum at all in my WA2.


 


  Agreed. My first pair of 5998s did hum in my WA2, but they were dud tubes. I have since sourced other 5998s from another retailer without issue. They are spectacular with both the HD800s and T1s! But I still find myself preferring my LCD-2s with the 7236s more "SS" sound.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow! You own TV7-D/U. Cool!
> 
> You're absolutely right about tubes testing BAD. I have a matching pair of used Mullard EL34 that tests VERY BAD and they sound really wonderful when used in my power amp. They've been going strong for a long time and they still test VERY BAD when I do check on them. LIFE TEST is also BAD. Go figure. I only throw them out when they have a short--OF COURSE!


 

 I assume you also throw them out if they fail the emissions test, yes?  I will keep tubes that test low for transconductance, but not test positive for leaks or shorts.


----------



## SDMAN

I'm starting to gather tubes in anticipation of my new WA22's arrival. I have found NOS JAN TUNG-SOL 5998 black plate's (1963 date codes) and NOS 6AS7G black plate NEC's (from the 1970's)  as well. I've seen the Tung-sol 5998's mentioned here, but havent seen anything on the 6AS7G NEC's. Anybody familiar with it? Any estimates on what a reasonable cost should be for these?


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Resurrection? I bet engineers and contractors had no idea... None! And may have assumed that whatever new technology came along, tubes would get replaced (kicked to the curb!) and no one would care to look back. Your photographs are ooozing with joy - welcome to the club. The very first track I played on my WA6SE was from a Jazz Bassist who hails from Mexico City - "Holidays" by Abraham Laboriel.


 


  I'll bet you're right! I think of one of my mentors, circa 1980, who was a tube expert and considered himself a has-been at the time... I wonder if he's still around 
   
  What was it about your first track that led you to christen your WA6SE with it?
   
  Also, I'll bet the original engineers never conceived that the signal feeding their tube could have originated from a digital source sampled at 96 kHz with 24-bit resolution, and converted to analog


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I assume you also throw them out if they fail the emissions test, yes?  I will keep tubes that test low for transconductance, but not test positive for leaks or shorts.


 

 The only tube I owned that tested positive for a short was a JAN G.E. 5751 which actually cracked in my fingers after it shorted in my tube tester. It had just pasted its 90-day warranty by 2 days. I have never come across a tube that tested positive for grid leaks but wasn't sure whether I had to throw one out or not if it did test positive--so now I know that I must throw out tubes with grid leaks. My tube tester only tests for Shorts, Emissions, and Grid Leakage--I don't see a dial for transconductance. I don't want my Woo amp to be an expensive tube tester!


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Great photos--I have had my new WA2 for about 10 days now, and I'm loving mine as well.  Also using it with HD800s.  I also have the Sylvania 7236 power tubes.  This setup has me listening to my HD800s more than ever.
> 
> I previously had a WA6SE, which didn't play to the HD800s strengths like the WA2 does.  I think this pairing is an excellent one.
> 
> On a slightly related note, I have a chance to get a pair of Tung Sol 5998s; I know these are slightly higher gain tubes, and I'm wondering if anyone using these in a WA2 or WA22 finds that they hum at all, or if there is any other downside to the higher gain.  My first priority for tubes is that they are totally quiet.


 

 Thanks, Mike. You clearly have more hours on yours, but after 8 on mine, I agree with those who describe the WA 2 as an amp to relax back with cognac or port and enjoy the thick warm presentation. I'm quite the neophyte, so I can't compare the HD800 WA2 experience with others... it's clearly different than using the NuForce Icon HDP headphone amp (although I am still using it's preamp and DAC)--but it is an impressive combo that very much lends itself to hours of listening.
   
  It's great going thru my collection (a hybrid mixture now of flac, mp3, m4a files, of course evolving more towards flac now) and getting a real sense of which recordings are very good and which are mediocre. Some of the recordings I thought would be fantastic on a respectable setup turn out to be so-so (my early Led Zeppelin recordings, for example--the music, of course, is fantastic, but the technical aspects surrounding the recording... What... by Led Zeppelin II, they should have had some blow-your-socks off stuff). In contrast, I though some of the grande collections I've purchased on the cheap would be collections of mediocre recordings clumsily thrown together to appeal to the novice. My Baroque Masterpieces, purchased on the cheap, has some absolutely surprisingly good recordings on it. I'm finding this to be true for some of my other recordings as well.
   
  It's fun hunting through the collection to discover some true gems--and having a new, wonderful, mellow amp is going a long ways towards increasing my enjoyment.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The only tube I owned that tested positive for a short was a JAN G.E. 5751 which actually cracked in my fingers after it shorted in my tube tester. It had just pasted its 90-day warranty by 2 days. I have never come across a tube that tested positive for grid leaks but wasn't sure whether I had to throw one out or not if it did test positive--so now I know that I must throw out tubes with grid leaks. My tube tester only tests for Shorts, Emissions, and Grid Leakage--I don't see a dial for transconductance. I don't want my Woo amp to be an expensive tube tester!


 



 Yes, leaks and shorts mean you should toss IMO.  My B&K 650 tests for transconductance, but I will keep tubes that test marginally for that.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The only tube I owned that tested positive for a short was a JAN G.E. 5751 which actually cracked in my fingers after it shorted in my tube tester. It had just pasted its 90-day warranty by 2 days. I have never come across a tube that tested positive for grid leaks but wasn't sure whether I had to throw one out or not if it did test positive--so now I know that I must throw out tubes with grid leaks. My tube tester only tests for Shorts, Emissions, and Grid Leakage--I don't see a dial for transconductance. I don't want my Woo amp to be an expensive tube tester!


 

 An Emissions Test is as good as any. If your tester has been checked/calibrated then it doesn't matter if it reads emissions or transconductance.
  Shorts and leakages must be avoided. There is no tester that can test a tube 100%. Even tube makers never had testers that could test their tubes 100%. The tube scores are invented by tube sellers. Sometimes tube scores mean very little. Sorry dannie for hijacking your thread.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> I'll bet you're right! I think of one of my mentors, circa 1980, who was a tube expert and considered himself a has-been at the time... I wonder if he's still around
> 
> What was it about your first track that led you to christen your WA6SE with it?
> 
> Also, I'll bet the original engineers never conceived that the signal feeding their tube could have originated from a digital source sampled at 96 kHz with 24-bit resolution, and converted to analog


 

 Every generation has its turn. Sometimes the words differ, but the same two basic questions are asked followed by a remark. A couple of generations from now, they'll look back with wonder -  "They did what? But why?! If only they realized that the (fill in blank here)..." Yes, they WILL be amused.
   
  Though delivery of my 6SE took eight weeks (ordered 2 May, rec'd 9 July), it's not like I needed the extra time to think about what would be my christening track. I knew as soon as logging in to Paypal. I was initially told my amp would arrive in four weeks. I wasn't impatient but did make one inquiry at week five. I ran up against three issues: Woo Audio had strong sales (backlog); a matter of parts; had to shutdown production to attend Consumer Electronic Show out of town.
   
  Back to World Class Bassist Abraham Laboriel, Sr. "Holidays" happened to be one of my favorite tracks and also one that I know inside-out. When a player or system is off or something not quite right, if a track has piano in it, you'll become aware rather quickly! His style, song selection (material to record) and the eloquent way he tunes and expresses his bass is a wonderful thing to hear.
   
  "Dear Friends" (1993) is a great CD. I had the pleasure to see him live at Club La Ve Lee (Studio City) with Afro-Columbian Saxophonist Justo Almario in '95 - the boys brought the heat! How hot? Drinks _on the rocks_ couldn't stay iced; candle wicks floating in liquid wax; Between drinks, women kept looking at their lipstick holders in frustration - yeah, that hot!
   
  Prior to '93, I heard his music as he recorded and toured with others but never his own material. Then one day in '93 I was hangin' out on Sunset Strip inside Virgin Mega Store (West Hollywood) and noticed his CD cover and took a shot - still a favorite! And just down the street, the legendary Tower Records (Sunset Blvd) - found a lot of great music there all the time as well. Especially imports! 
   
  One thing that use to draw me to Virgin Mega store was they carried a wide selection of African music. Their distributor was Stern's Music - NY/London. Before Virgin Mega Store, and the commercial Internet, I'd get monthly catalogs mailed to me from Stern's. Then turn around and call the New York store with my order. Or call/fax London long distance with orders. And then pay a premium for 2-3 day Air!
   
  Oh but, anyway... thanks all for allowing me to reminisce. Music is always a great medium for memories.


----------



## Xcalibur255

All this talk of tube testers has got me thinking again that I need to get one myself sooner or later.  My knowledge of them is basically zero so shopping for one is a bit intimidating under those circumstances.  The few times I've poked around the net for suggestions has yielded surprisingly little talk on the subject.


----------



## grokit

I think that I have finally figured something definitive out as far as what tubes go together best on my WA22. To my ears, the Sophia 274B Princess rectifier goes well with the TS 5998 power tubes, but not so well with the Sylvania 7236 power tubes. Conversely, the EML 5U4G rectifier sounds better with the 7236 power tubes, as opposed to the 5998s. This is with the TSRP oval mica driver tubes installed, listening through the LCD-2 and HD600; I suppose the results could be different with the HD800. 





  Is it just me, or does this make sense to anybody else?


----------



## dariusf

Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Just thought I would display my newly acquired WA-5, great sounding amp. I will write a more a detail article once I have been to able burn some tubes in and found the ideal sweet sound.


 
   
  Wow this looks great and I love the idea of the plexiglass covers to keep the dust out.


----------



## dariusf

Does anyone have any extra 12AX7 tube sets (4 matched) they would be willing to sell? I got my GES with a set of Sylvania and would love to tube roll this rig.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I think that I have finally figured something definitive out as far as what tubes go together best on my WA22. To my ears, the Sophia 274B Princess rectifier goes well with the TS 5998 power tubes, but not so well with the Sylvania 7236 power tubes. Conversely, the EML 5U4G rectifier sounds better with the 7236 power tubes, as opposed to the 5998s. This is with the TSRP oval mica driver tubes installed, listening through the LCD-2 and HD600; I suppose the results could be different with the HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  While I have never tried the EML, your post makes perfect sense to me, for the following reason: Sophia = bright + 5998 = not, result = GOOD.  7236 = bright + EML = not, result = GOOD.  An oversimplification, but you get the idea...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I think that I have finally figured something definitive out as far as what tubes go together best on my WA22. To my ears, the Sophia 274B Princess rectifier goes well with the TS 5998 power tubes, but not so well with the Sylvania 7236 power tubes. Conversely, the EML 5U4G rectifier sounds better with the 7236 power tubes, as opposed to the 5998s. This is with the TSRP oval mica driver tubes installed, listening through the LCD-2 and HD600; I suppose the results could be different with the HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  This makes sense to me.  In my rig anything to keep it from getting too bright.  I settled on the following combination: EML, TSRP (round and oval micas) and GEC 6AS7G.  In a pinch I can use TS 6AS7G's.  If I put a Sophia into the mix it's too bright, or if I put in any 6080 (except the RCA) it's too bright.  If I want to increase the screech factor by orders of magnitude previously unknown to mankind, throw in a pair of Sylvania 7236's.  I am listening through an HD800.  At some point I'm going to try an LCD-2.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> While I have never tried the EML, your post makes perfect sense to me, for the following reason: Sophia = bright + 5998 = not, result = GOOD.  7236 = bright + EML = not, result = GOOD.  An oversimplification, but you get the idea...


 

 Makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## Golfnutz

When you think about it, this is the tube upgrade combination that Jack recommends for the WA22. The only exception is the TS RPBG, which is something he cannot offer. Otherwise, he sells the 7236's and EML 5U4G. I'm with you GROKIT, you and I have the same combination.


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Every generation has its turn. Sometimes the words differ, but the same two basic questions are asked followed by a remark. A couple of generations from now, they'll look back with wonder -  "They did what? But why?! If only they realized that the (fill in blank here)..." Yes, they WILL be amused.
> 
> Though delivery of my 6SE took eight weeks (ordered 2 May, rec'd 9 July), it's not like I needed the extra time to think about what would be my christening track. I knew as soon as logging in to Paypal. I was initially told my amp would arrive in four weeks. I wasn't impatient but did make one inquiry at week five. I ran up against three issues: Woo Audio had strong sales (backlog); a matter of parts; had to shutdown production to attend Consumer Electronic Show out of town.
> 
> ...


 


  Absolutely they will be amused--but at the same time, I suspect each generation appreciates the advances made by the previous. I'm not sure who, back in the 1960s and 1970s had the music collection to fully appreciate how good the tubes I'm now using from the era really are!
   
  I'm always inspired to investigate when someone, especially from audiophiles of the caliber that hang out here, raves about a recording, so it's great that you went into as much detail as you did. You've given me many leads worth exploring--well worth reading!


----------



## the_equalizer

Oh boy, I've just been hit by "upgradeitis". I've been really happy with my WA6 for 18 months, and really I have nothing to complain about it, lovely amp. But the thought of re-structuring my speaker listening setup has led me to consider the WA2 for preamp and headphone amp duty.
   
  Do any of the WA2 owners here use it as a preamp with a power amp for a speaker setup? How do you like it for preamp duty (noise level, dynamics)?
   
  From the pics of the amp I can see three transformer cases on top, I take it the preamp outputs are transformer coupled and it's only the headphone amp that is OTL? Finally, for the ones who have purchased this amp recently, is it still wired point-to-point like my WA6 or are PC boards used as seen in some WA22 pics posted to the thread?
   
  Thanks in advance for your help and opinions.
   
  cheers!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I believe Jack explained recently that all Woo amps are still wired point to point.  The PCBs are just there to tidy things up and assist in keeping components secure at their placement locations.


----------



## the_equalizer

Thanks for your reply Xcalibur255, good to know.
   
  I've been reading a bit of the back posts in the thread and have caught one or two comments about the WA2 as preamp and I think it's definitely a solid choice... but it'll be hard parting with my WA6, particularly after a picture of ClaytonSF's setup which Skylab called 'amp heaven'.
   
  Does anyone use the WA2 with solid state power amps? My plan is to build a couple of gainclone one-chip power amps for speaker duty (budget is tight, I wish I could afford the WA2 and a Pass power amp!).


----------



## Clayton SF

Dear the_equalizer:
   
  Last year I had my WA2 connected to a very reasonably priced ss amp (the Emotiva UPA-2). This combo is really impressive--it floored me. The WA2 as a preamp is exceptional. My vice is not tube rolling but amp rolling. Jack has told me that pairing the WA2 with a solid state power amp can be very rewarding.
   
  This was my setup in March of 2010.


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's...... a lotta Woo.


----------



## Clayton SF

Woo is me!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Dear the_equalizer:
> 
> Last year I had my WA2 connected to a very reasonably priced ss amp (the Emotiva UPA-2). This combo is really impressive--it floored me. The WA2 as a preamp is exceptional. My vice is not tube rolling but amp rolling. Jack has told me that pairing the WA2 with a solid state power amp can be very rewarding.
> 
> This was my setup in March of 2010.


 

 After I sat down and settled in, I couldn't help thinking I was visiting a hi-end audio dealer. In addition to having great taste in electronics, your tastes in home design speaks volumes as well... _very nice._


----------



## epocs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Dear the_equalizer:
> 
> Last year I had my WA2 connected to a very reasonably priced ss amp (the Emotiva UPA-2). This combo is really impressive--it floored me. The WA2 as a preamp is exceptional. My vice is not tube rolling but amp rolling. Jack has told me that pairing the WA2 with a solid state power amp can be very rewarding.
> 
> This was my setup in March of 2010.


 


  Wow, quite beautiful. Gotta love Woo. My only hope now is that you can host a mini meet in the bay sometime


----------



## the_equalizer

Thank you for your reply ClaytonSF, I really wanted to hear an opinion about the WA2 + SS combo.
   
  And thanks for another glimpse of amp heaven!!  Now... if only I could find a way to keep my WA6...
   
   
  EDIT: Wow, I just checked the Emotiva webpage and the UPA-2 is *definitely* affordable. I might go that route instead of DIY gainclones. Thanks again!
   
   
  cheers!


----------



## shipsupt

epocs said:


> Wow, quite beautiful. Gotta love Woo. My only hope now is that you can host a mini meet in the bay sometime




There is enough gear there that it's like a mini meet every day! 

So, epocs, when is the "how do you pronounce it thread" coming? Is it "wah6-SE" or "w,a,6,s,e"? Ha ha


----------



## Icenine2

Go to HD Tracks and download Tommy in 24 bit!  It is beyond great.  Killer!!!  I love high-res!!  You've never heard it like this before.


----------



## guitarplayer

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Go to HD Tracks and download Tommy in 24 bit!  It is beyond great.  Killer!!!  I love high-res!!  You've never heard it like this before.


 


  Indeed!  Love it!
   
  Peace,
   
  Lee


----------



## Clayton SF

So how would a 24-bit/96kHz recording sound on my Woo when played through a DAC that upsamples to 24-bit/96kHz? In other words what happens to a 24/96 source when a 24/96 upsample algorithm is applied to it? Maybe I should purchase it and find out!


----------



## Icenine2

Hold off on downloading this until they get the last song fixed.  It's supposed to be 7 min and it stops at the 3 min transition.  I'm sure they'll fix this soon but a bummer having to wait.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Go to HD Tracks and download Tommy in 24 bit!  It is beyond great.  Killer!!!  I love high-res!!  You've never heard it like this before.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Hold off on downloading this until they get the last song fixed.  It's supposed to be 7 min and it stops at the 3 min transition.  I'm sure they'll fix this soon but a bummer having to wait.


 


   
   Thanks for the tip! 
   
  Staying off topic...  In the mean time check out the Smithereens Play Tommy, fun and well recorded.  Something to hold us over until the track is corrected!


----------



## grokit

WA22 tube-rolling diary continued... with the Princess and 5998s in place I rolled a couple of Zenith 6SN7GTA in place of the TSRPs.
   

   
  I must say I am quite surprised, this is a good combination that holds up to the previous combination (TSRP, Princess, 5998) very well. I really don't think anything is lacking here, these Zeniths are very nice in this setup (I had never tried them before). They're not the "mouse ear" variety, so I am guessing they are made by Sylvania? They do say "made in the USA" on them. I couldn't find much info about these particular tubes with a cursory online search, but I am quite impressed with what they add to the overall clarity and dynamics in this combo.


----------



## Skylab

99% sure those are GE made.


----------



## mikemalter

Well, just got my hands on a slightly used PS Audio PerfectWave DAC with Bridge.  Should be here next week.  I've been really looking forward to getting this so I could play my High Rez music through my WA22 without my computer in the signal chain.
   
  Any tips or secrets to getting the best out of it?  I don't have a NAS, but do have a LAN with some very big hard drives storing my music.  Can I get directly off of my LAN to the DAC without a NAS?  Would I need a media server like the beta version that PS Audio has put out, or would something work better?
   
  I can now remove three pieces of gear out of my setup, the Wadia i170, my iPod and my Monarchy DIP.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, just got my hands on a slightly used PS Audio PerfectWave DAC with Bridge.  Should be here next week.  I've been really looking forward to getting this so I could play my High Rez music through my WA22 without my computer in the signal chain. ...


 
  I want one. Where did you pick up you PWD?


----------



## jovi007

I have read few pages of this thread (this is too long, I cannot read all of it~ haha)
   
  And I am considering to buy wa2 or wa6se with the lcd2.
  But I still decide to buy which one..... any comment for me to refer to decide to get which one?
   
  wa2 seems smaller than wa6se, but i afarid it cannot push the low ohm headphone well, like lcd-2.
  on the other hand, wa6se seems good for low ohm headphone, but i afarid the song style is too similar as ss amp.
   
  p.s I am using conerto and stagedac at my home.
  if possible, i also want to use it on t1 and ed8, but LCD2 is manily.
   
  Thanks so much. hope can get helping of this issue~


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, just got my hands on a slightly used PS Audio PerfectWave DAC with Bridge.  Should be here next week.  I've been really looking forward to getting this so I could play my High Rez music through my WA22 without my computer in the signal chain.
> 
> Any tips or secrets to getting the best out of it?  I don't have a NAS, but do have a LAN with some very big hard drives storing my music.  Can I get directly off of my LAN to the DAC without a NAS?  Would I need a media server like the beta version that PS Audio has put out, or would something work better?
> 
> I can now remove three pieces of gear out of my setup, the Wadia i170, my iPod and my Monarchy DIP.


 

 I use software called TwonkyServer on my Mac to serve your music, and got the PS Audio TagNPlay software for iphone/touch/iPad to control and redirect music playback through the bridge.  If you have a PC I'm not sure what to use.  I can't get the eLyric beta to work, or at least I can't see the server music with my TagNPlay and Bridge.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, just got my hands on a slightly used PS Audio PerfectWave DAC with Bridge.  Should be here next week.  I've been really looking forward to getting this so I could play my High Rez music through my WA22 without my computer in the signal chain.
> 
> Any tips or secrets to getting the best out of it?  I don't have a NAS, but do have a LAN with some very big hard drives storing my music.  Can I get directly off of my LAN to the DAC without a NAS?  Would I need a media server like the beta version that PS Audio has put out, or would something work better?
> 
> I can now remove three pieces of gear out of my setup, the Wadia i170, my iPod and my Monarchy DIP.


 

 Mike, when you say "_play my High Rez music through my WA22 without my computer in the signal chain." _do you mean the computer sound card? I ask because this question because I think that you will still need to serve your WAVs or FLACs with some software music server.
   
  You can see from my signature that I use Slim Devices hardware/software as a solution. In my case it still requires a Windows based music server software (SqueezeCenter).
   
  I have heard that people who use windows based systems often rely on Foobar as a software solution. You will still need something more than a hard drive to complete the system. There are of course NAS solutions as well as small atom based hardware that may offer what you want.
   
  I originally just used my laptop as a server, then eventually built a DIY Windows box that sleeps always or plays my music files, then sleeps until more music is requested.
   
  John


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





jovi007 said:


> I have read few pages of this thread (this is too long, I cannot read all of it~ haha)
> 
> And I am considering to buy wa2 or wa6se with the lcd2.
> But I still decide to buy which one..... any comment for me to refer to decide to get which one?
> ...


 
  I had a WA6SE which I used HD800s and LCD2s with; it handled both very well.  But now I have 2 amps--a Meier Concerto and a WA2.  I use the LCD2s with the Concerto, and the HD800s with the WA2.  
   
  If you are trying to decide between the WA6SE and the WA2 for your LCD2s, I would choose the WA6SE-I don't own the other headphones you mentioned, but I'm guessing the WA6SE might be the all around best choice.  
   
  I love the WA2 as part of my two-amp system, but I don't think I'd want it to be my only amp, considering the headphones I use.  The WA2 does make my HD800s sound better than ever, though.


----------



## rydenfan

Have any 22 owners experimented with running a GZ37 rectifier? I have a nice metal base 5AR4 but I also have a sweet brown base coke bottle GZ37. I know that the GZ37’s draw more current than the 5AR4’s and that not all amps can support that draw so I thought I would check.


----------



## jc9394

headphoneaddict said:


> I use software called TwonkyServer on my Mac to serve your music, and got the PS Audio TagNPlay software for iphone/touch/iPad to control and redirect music playback through the bridge.  If you have a PC I'm not sure what to use.  I can't get the eLyric beta to work, or at least I can't see the server music with my TagNPlay and Bridge.




Twonkey work on PC too, this is what I use before I get the QNAP NAS. I highly recommend to use QNAP with PWD, just the power save it worth it already. PC use from 150-250 watts while QNAP is around 20-30 watts.


----------



## jc9394

rydenfan said:


> Have any 22 owners experimented with running a GZ37 rectifier? I have a nice metal base 5AR4 but I also have a sweet brown base coke bottle GZ37. I know that the GZ37’s draw more current than the 5AR4’s and that not all amps can support that draw so I thought I would check.




I'm using metal base GZ34 once a while, the amp runs warmer than 5U4G does and Jack did said that is perfectly normal. I do not experience with GZ37...


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





rydenfan said:


> Have any 22 owners experimented with running a GZ37 rectifier? I have a nice metal base 5AR4 but I also have a sweet brown base coke bottle GZ37. I know that the GZ37’s draw more current than the 5AR4’s and that not all amps can support that draw so I thought I would check.


 

 I'm using a GZ37 right now with no problems. I'm using it to burn in my TSRPs and GEC 6080s as I don't want to shorten the life of my EML 5U4G during the burn in process. I can't really compare the two rectifers as I've only briefly heard the TSRPs and GEC 6080s with the EML for a few minutes. So far I'm liking this combo quite a lot.
   
  The amp does get pretty hot with the GZ37 and GEC 6080s though. I didn't recall my WA22 getting this hot with EML 5U4G + GEC 6080, EML 5U4G + 5998  or GZ37 + 5998.


----------



## Golfnutz

I'm also using a GZ37 in my WA22 with TS RPBG, and Sylvania 7236 tubes.  Within this past week, I eliminated my surround processor and connected my Oppo BD-83 via RCA directly to the WA22 (I was using the balanced inputs through my processor). Totally changed the dynamics of the sound. The improvements are night and day. No more bloating in the low end or cutting off in the higher frequency when using the GZ37. I'm also considering buying more GZ37's - the sound is actually quit good, and a lot less expensive then the EML 54UG.  I do agree, the amp is running a bit warmer, but I don't think it's running hot at all.  Now I'm just waiting for delivery of a new Oppo BD-95, and will be able to use the balanced inputs directly.


----------



## jc9394

I have not tried the GZ37 but with GZ34, it is much better than Sophia princess.  I use GEC6080, Brimar CV1988, and GZ34 mostly with LCD-2, it sound so good that I kick myself not to try it from the get go.


----------



## Golfnutz

I also wanted to add, connecting the CD player directly to the WA22 have given my the 3D sound that Mikemalter has frequently described.  Led Zeppelin's - Stairway to Heaven has never sounded so good - easily beats any system I've ever listen to. If you're not getting the 3D effect from listening to this song, then your WA22 isn't performing to the best of it's ability.


----------



## rydenfan

Great news on the GZ37, thanks for the responses. I was not the biggest fan of the Emissions Labs mesh plate a few years ago when I owned a Modwright Transporter but obviously that was a very different piece. Should I go with the WA22 it seems like I need to give it another shot.
   
  BTW, anyone looking for a GZ37 to try I have had pretty good luck with the military version CV593. Nice sounding tube with a large current capability


----------



## Golfnutz

According to http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=CV593 the CV593 is the equivalent of a GZ32.  If you're going to try it in a WA22, I would check with Jack first. The GZ32 is on the compatibility chart, however the CV593 isn't.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


nututubes said:


> Mike, when you say "_play my High Rez music through my WA22 without my computer in the signal chain." _do you mean the computer sound card? I ask because this question because I think that you will still need to serve your WAVs or FLACs with some software music server.
> 
> You can see from my signature that I use Slim Devices hardware/software as a solution. In my case it still requires a Windows based music server software (SqueezeCenter).
> 
> ...


 

 John, yes, strictly speaking the computer is in the chain.  What I meant was removing the computer sound card from the equation.  It's good that you raise the issue to add clarity to the discussion.  I'm going to start with using Twonky on the server that has a very large raid array which has our music on it.  Reading more about NAS, no matter which one you get, you still have to have a media player on it.  I'm very much in learning mode now that I'm changing my system architecture to accomodate the PWD's bridge.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 JC and HA, thanks for your thoughts.  As I mentioned previously, I'm going to start with Twonky as I already have a server on our LAN with a large raid array with all of our music on it.  I'm going to install Twonky on that server and see what happens.  I have been reading the reviews of the QNAP on Amazon, and it is very well liked.  Using Twonky on my server will give me a no cost starting point. 
   
  As I am new to this, I am just beginning to learn.  It seems to me that these NAS boxes are really just servers that must have a media server running on them anyway, so what difference does it make if I use a dedicated NAS, or use an existing server to feed my PWD's bridge.  The server by the way is not heavily used and has a gigabit network card and the music is on a seperate raid array with its on queue in the raid.  So I guess it's like John's DIY box.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## kuben

Hi i have quick question, can i switch inputs on the fly when two players are playing?
  New owner of WA6-SE Custom Maxxed ;D


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> John, yes, strictly speaking the computer is in the chain.  What I meant was removing the computer sound card from the equation.  It's good that you raise the issue to add clarity to the discussion.  I'm going to start with using Twonky on the server that has a very large raid array which has our music on it.  Reading more about NAS, no matter which one you get, you still have to have a media player on it.  I'm very much in learning mode now that I'm changing my system architecture to accomodate the PWD's bridge.
> 
> ...




NAS reduce the noise as it only have a small fan, unlike the computer with multiple fans, cd drives, and other components.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My LAN is on a rack in the garage away from everyone.  So when you say noise, do you mean noise that the equipment physically makes, or signal noise because there is more stuff at play on the box?


----------



## jc9394

Physical equipment noise, when I used my computer as a media server, I did not a slight static when the harddrive spin up


----------



## jovi007

Thanks, Mike~!
  It is a useful information for me to reference~! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I had a WA6SE which I used HD800s and LCD2s with; it handled both very well.  But now I have 2 amps--a Meier Concerto and a WA2.  I use the LCD2s with the Concerto, and the HD800s with the WA2.
> 
> If you are trying to decide between the WA6SE and the WA2 for your LCD2s, I would choose the WA6SE-I don't own the other headphones you mentioned, but I'm guessing the WA6SE might be the all around best choice.
> 
> I love the WA2 as part of my two-amp system, but I don't think I'd want it to be my only amp, considering the headphones I use.  The WA2 does make my HD800s sound better than ever, though.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Physical equipment noise, when I used my computer as a media server, I did not a slight static when the harddrive spin up


 

 Interesting.  I'll keep my ears open.  I'm probably going to have to ultimately use a NAS, but the DAC and bridge was expensive and I also just got a P5 so, I have to cool it for a while.  After my PWD settles in, I'll put my DLIII up for sale and it will help fund a NAS.  Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

The QNAP that is dedicated to music cost me around $250 for 2TB. One of the cheapest purchase I made after I joined full size amp side.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The QNAP that is dedicated to music cost me around $250 for 2TB. One of the cheapest purchase I made after I joined full size amp side.


 

 What is the model number of your QNAP?  Maybe I should go with something very inexpensive to start with to get the best audio right away without having to work through a lot of configuration stuff by configuring an existing server.


----------



## jc9394

TS110, I have a higher model that backup the TS110 and all my other stuff.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> TS110, I have a higher model that backup the TS110 and all my other stuff.


 

 So you have a second NAS that backs up the first NAS?  What make and model?


----------



## grokit

Do you use the iTunes Server feature on your TS110 JC?


----------



## jc9394

Mike, I have a TS-439 for my consulting business and I do use it to backup my music since I have a TB on it.

Vince, yes I do use the iTune server. Great use of it since I only need to store my music files on a single place. I do stream it over the Internet while I'm away on business trip.


----------



## vinyllp33

Anyone with a Mac use Pure Music with their iTunes?

I think one of its advantages other than bypassing the Apple audio is that it buffers the music so that the hard drive is not spinning up.

It also allows you to import and play high-res files, of course limited to what your DAC can handle, which is a huge plus.

The improvement in sound is significant and it is priced well below its competition.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Anyone with a Mac use Pure Music with their iTunes?
> 
> I think one of its advantages other than bypassing the Apple audio is that it buffers the music so that the hard drive is not spinning up.
> 
> ...


 

 With my Mac mini music server (2010, v1.4, SSD Internal, 8GB Ram, Memory play) I use Audirvana; Pure Music in that order...


----------



## grokit

I have pretty much narrowed it down to Pure Music or nothing as far as a Mac music-playing alternative to iTunes. My reasons: seamless integration with iTunes, the license works for multiple computers, it will run on Leopard as well as Snow Leopard, it will run on G4 as well as G5/Intel machines, and Channel D is reportedly quite responsive as far as product support goes. I haven't found any other music player that meets all of these requirements.
   
  I haven't tried the demo yet, but soon...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have pretty much narrowed it down to Pure Music or nothing as far as a Mac music-playing alternative to iTunes. My reasons: seamless integration with iTunes, the license works for multiple computers, it will run on Leopard as well as Snow Leopard, it will run on G4 as well as G5/Intel machines, and Channel D is reportedly quite responsive as far as product support goes. I haven't found any other music player that meets all of these requirements.
> 
> I haven't tried the demo yet, but soon...


 

 Looks like your satisfaction is just up ahead - great! ('Software rolling?') I had been using Audirvana, Pure Music & Decibel in the rotation, depending on mood or music selection. Decibel just went commercial and haven't  yet secure a license. 
   
  Like tubes, choice is nice.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Any fellow Woo-ers good at math? 
   
  I need somebody to confirm/debunk my logic here.  I was trying to compare the power output of my WA6 and my VHP-2, but there are no published numbers for the latter.  I was able to dig up a review with technical testing stating the maximum output at clipping was 9V.  So using formula [ power = (voltage * voltage) / resistance ] where resistance is 62 ohms (for the K701s) that would give a result of approx. 1.3 watts per channel.  Does this sound like it is on track or am I totally off base?  It's been a looooooong time since I was in math class.


----------



## the_equalizer

Unfortunately it's difficult to use that 9 volt output figure to calculate the power dissipated on the K701, since basically it means you're assuming the amp can put those 9 volts when loaded with the AKG's.  If the load used in that test had a smaller impedance than the K701, then you can more or less confidently assume the amp can put out those same 9 volts (or more, without clipping) to the AKGs
   
  But if the load used in the test was higher (say 300 ohms or 600 ohms) then you cannot assume that, since as impedance goes down, the amp is required to put out more and more current to sustain the same voltage over the decreasing impedance. Just to exemplify, use the formula to calculate the power put out by the amp into a 1 ohm load.
   
  In other words, your calculation is correct from the theoretical point of view, but it would require real life measurements to confirm the amp can put out that much current and voltage into the AKG cans.
   
   
  EDIT: removed duplicate sentence about 1 ohm load


----------



## Hi-Five

Hey Xcalibur,
   
  I also own both a VHP-2 and a wa6(se), and subjectively the Woo seems to have higher gain (especially with 6fd7s).  I find the wa6 to have a much fuller sound, but this could be the current tubes I'm listening too.  I'd be curious what your impressions are as well.
   
  I would also like to know what the nominal power output of the VHP-2 is, the specs are very limited that I could find.  I still think the CI stuff is a super value and it's certainly a capable SS amp, but I almost never choose it when the Woo is sitting two feet away!


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Anyone with a Mac use Pure Music with their iTunes?
> 
> I think one of its advantages other than bypassing the Apple audio is that it buffers the music so that the hard drive is not spinning up.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have been using the demo for a few days.  I wanted it for high-res files and to play flac and yes, there is a significant improvement in SQ.  I will definitely be buying it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





the_equalizer said:


> Unfortunately it's difficult to use that 9 volt output figure to calculate the power dissipated on the K701, since basically it means you're assuming the amp can put those 9 volts when loaded with the AKG's.  If the load used in that test had a smaller impedance than the K701, then you can more or less confidently assume the amp can put out those same 9 volts (or more, without clipping) to the AKGs
> 
> But if the load used in the test was higher (say 300 ohms or 600 ohms) then you cannot assume that, since as impedance goes down, the amp is required to put out more and more current to sustain the same voltage over the decreasing impedance. Just to exemplify, use the formula to calculate the power put out by the amp into a 1 ohm load.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info.  I hadn't considered the conditions under which the measurement was taken.  The 9V figure is best case scenario, but they don't specify the impedance of the test load.  The amp seems to do better with higher impedance loads, so I can probably assume I'm getting less power at 62 ohms.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Hey Xcalibur,
> 
> I also own both a VHP-2 and a wa6(se), and subjectively the Woo seems to have higher gain (especially with 6fd7s).  I find the wa6 to have a much fuller sound, but this could be the current tubes I'm listening too.  I'd be curious what your impressions are as well.
> 
> I would also like to know what the nominal power output of the VHP-2 is, the specs are very limited that I could find.  I still think the CI stuff is a super value and it's certainly a capable SS amp, but I almost never choose it when the Woo is sitting two feet away!


 

 I always thought the VHP-2 sounded thin compared to the Woo.  The last time I remember comparing I felt they were close for resolution, with the Woo having much nicer tone and the VHP-2 having better dynamics and tauter bass.  Last night I heard something different though, and I'm a bit distrustful of my ears right now as a result.  I think it might be the Brimar tubes I have in the Woo right now, which I don't like at all and am about to take out, but the VHP-2 was sounding pretty darn good in that comparison.  To sum up without rambling like I usually do, the VHP-2 felt more musical, something I can't believe I just typed.  Pretty much the whole reason I bought the Woo was because I felt the VHP-2 completely lacked that quality.  It is a great amp, a really great amp at its price, in analytical terms but it made music feel soulless to me, at least it does on the K701 (which I think the amp has bad synergy with for the record).  I think if I were to pop some Sylvania tubes back in the Woo and compare again I'd find the comparison I am more used to hearing, but it did make me re-think the notion I've had about selling the VHP-2.


----------



## vinyllp33

xcalibur255 said:


> Vinyll, would you happen to know if the EML 274B tubes are receiving these design updates too, or is it focused solely on the 5U4G tube?  Thanks.



I have not heard about any revisions to the EML 274B but info from this company about changes to their tubes is cryptic at best.

Cheers!


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Absolutely they will be amused--but at the same time, I suspect each generation appreciates the advances made by the previous. I'm not sure who, back in the 1960s and 1970s had the music collection to fully appreciate how good the tubes I'm now using from the era really are!
> 
> I'm always inspired to investigate when someone, especially from audiophiles of the caliber that hang out here, raves about a recording, so it's great that you went into as much detail as you did. You've given me many leads worth exploring--well worth reading!


 

 ...just to follow on, the 7236 power tubes were indicated as being packed in May 1963... I wonder what the best typical audiophile setup would have been at that time. I do have a few CDs from analog tapes mastered from that era that really aren't bad (technically... and of course, some are excellent musically), but they typically have a higher and noticeable noise floor and more timid frequency response--meaning that the (audiophile) user of the tubes back in the day would not have been able to fully appreciate what they were capable of (but I welcome any contrary view). Perhaps recording studios had a sense. Were early 1960s audiophiles listening to tapes copied directly from masters? I don't have any vinyl from that time period and I don't know what the state of the art for playing vinyl was back then.


----------



## vinyllp33

It is ironic in that what was considered the "Golden Age" of vinyl ca. 1957-63 when all the great RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence, Blue Note Deep Groove LP's were available there was not a turntable/tonearm/cartridge combination made that could do them justice. 

Arguably we did not see the likes of this until the late 70's and early 80's; And analog playback has steadily improved since then.

In fact because most of the equipment people were using to play said records could not handle the extreme dynamic range record companies started "dumming down" the quality of their LP's to make them compatible with the average turntable. 

The most drastic being RCA's Dynagroove process which is a total disaster when played back on a modern table but actually sounded better on the mass market units being used in the 1960's.


----------



## grokit

1963 LP's were pre-stereo (monophonic) I thought. At least the Doors and Beatles early releases were mono.


----------



## vinyllp33

Stereo LP's were on the scene around 1956-57, thing was practically nobody, even the audiophiles of the time had two channel systems.

Since this trend continued into the 1960's most recordings were geared towards mono, the Beatles being a good example. Most stereo back then was "hard left-hard right"' which sounds very artificial by today's standards. This is why most collectors of jazz and pop music of this era seek out the mono versions.

Classical was a different story entirely, since essentially each recording was a live orchestra set up in a hall or studio, a minimum number of strategically placed mics could be employed and these stereo LP's can and do create accurate soundstaging and are highly sought after for both their sound and timeless performances.


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Stereo LP's were on the scene around 1956-57, thing was practically nobody, even the audiophiles of the time had two channel systems.
> 
> Since this trend continued into the 1960's most recordings were geared towards mono, the Beatles being a good example. Most stereo back then was "hard left-hard right"' which sounds very artificial by today's standards. This is why most collectors of jazz and pop music of this era seek out the mono versions.
> 
> Classical was a different story entirely, since essentially each recording was a live orchestra set up in a hall or studio, a minimum number of strategically placed mics could be employed and these stereo LP's can and do create accurate soundstaging and are highly sought after for both their sound and timeless performances.


 

 I had absolutely no idea that this was the state of the art. A "history" thread would be really interesting--perhaps identifying in each 5-year time frame what the "elite" audiophiles were listening to (both in terms of equipment and the media/quality of recordings), the "upper-scale" audiophiles, the "run-of-the-mill" audiophiles, and then the masses. I know I have some CDs made from circa 1920s masters (Jelly Roll Morton, Fats Waller)... and I think there's a web site that has rips of many phonograph cylinders...


----------



## Icenine2

Some cool tube amps at this 6Moon link.  http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/roadtourburen/1.html


----------



## LostChild1

Hey guys, I was told you might be the right people to ask the following question:

I personally find that with my WA6, the HD800's sound very bright, and lack the punch that bass should have. I'm not a bass-head, looking for throbbing bass, but there's simply no kick to the bass in the headphones. I've already removed the Sophia Princess in lieu of the 5AR4, but have heard that changing to the Mullard GZ34 would further improve the sound in the direction I want.

Would anyone have any other suggestions as to which rectifier I should use with the 800s? Or which rectifiers they use, and what their thoughts on them are?

I can also change Power Tubes, but I was under the impression they didn't have the same impact on sound that the rectifier did.


----------



## Skylab

Actually I found the power tubes to make a very big difference.  the 6EW7 is especially bright sounding, IMO.  Is that what you are using?


----------



## jc9394

Use Mullard GZ34 with 6FD7.


----------



## LostChild1

skylab said:


> Actually I found the power tubes to make a very big difference.  the 6EW7 is especially bright sounding, IMO.  Is that what you are using?




I'm using the stock Woo-Audio power tubes, which happen to be the 6FD7. So I guess the GZ34 would indeed be the best route to go then?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





lostchild1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 really?  The stock tube is the 6DE7 - but your came with 6FD7's?  Well, those are the least bright of the power tubes for the WA6, IMO.  And they are quite powerful too compared to the 6EW7/6DE7.  So yeah, time to try rectifier tube rolling.


----------



## Golfnutz

Are you using the stock cables? You might want to consider changing them if you haven't already. I'm using the Cardas with my HD800, and there is definitely an improvement with these cables.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Actually I found the power tubes to make a very big difference.  the 6EW7 is especially bright sounding, IMO.  Is that what you are using?


 


  Which brands of 6EW7 have you tried out?  The only pair I own are Raytheons, but I felt they were the least bright sounding and most laid back of all the drop-in compatible tubes.  They were on the lean side in the mids, but rolled off enough to be polite up top.  This varied a lot depending upon the rectifier though, for example the TS 5U4G makes them downright dark with treble rolled off so much it becomes a problem.  The 6FD7 always sounded the fullest in overall tone, but often they sounded peaky as well.  The peakiness always seemed to be in a fairly narrow frequency band so maybe it is headphone dependent whether the user is hearing it or not.


----------



## Skylab

It's funny how bright means different things to different people. Maybe I should have said "thin", as you did. The 6EW7 lack bass, and have a glare in the upper mids. I did not really find them rolled off, though. I have Raytheon, Sylvania, and GE 6EW7's, including the UK made ones (not sure who actually made these - they are GE branded but clearly marked made in UK). But I have not noticed much difference in the various 6EW7's. 

I love the 6FD7, myself, but I've really only used it with the LCD-2. Never noticed any peakiness, but that could also be brand or sample related. I'm using fat bottle black plate 6FD7's.


----------



## Hi-Five

Interesting, I bought the Woo to cure what I thought was a bright system or amp as heard through my VHP-2; adding the ability to roll tubes just seemed the way to go rather than dumbing down the rest of the system to compensate.  I found the VHP to be a fantastic little amp, but as my system improved some CDs became just unlistenable.  I would seek out the vinyl instead, but that still felt a bit cold somehow.  Now I've found that the Woo is just perfect in a bright system, I can tailor just how much edge to take off and how much low end to kick up!
   
  I've been loving the clear-top, fatty Sylvania's (6fd7), they do this amp MAJOR justice!  Gain is a bit explosive though!
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I always thought the VHP-2 sounded thin compared to the Woo.  The last time I remember comparing I felt they were close for resolution, with the Woo having much nicer tone and the VHP-2 having better dynamics and tauter bass.  Last night I heard something different though, and I'm a bit distrustful of my ears right now as a result.  I think it might be the Brimar tubes I have in the Woo right now, which I don't like at all and am about to take out, but the VHP-2 was sounding pretty darn good in that comparison.  To sum up without rambling like I usually do, the VHP-2 felt more musical, something I can't believe I just typed.  Pretty much the whole reason I bought the Woo was because I felt the VHP-2 completely lacked that quality.  It is a great amp, a really great amp at its price, in analytical terms but it made music feel soulless to me, at least it does on the K701 (which I think the amp has bad synergy with for the record).  I think if I were to pop some Sylvania tubes back in the Woo and compare again I'd find the comparison I am more used to hearing, but it did make me re-think the notion I've had about selling the VHP-2.


----------



## Hi-Five

You might try the 6de7s as well.  In a couple swaps it seemed to me like the 6de7 has more "punch" (around 120 to 200Hz maybe?) while the 6fd7 is more balanced in the low end and has more "boom" (80 to 120Hz maybe?).  I can't remember how the two compared in terms of brightness however.  In any case, they are so inexpensive it's probably worth picking up a pair to try out.
  
  Quote: 





lostchild1 said:


> Hey guys, I was told you might be the right people to ask the following question:
> 
> I personally find that with my WA6, the HD800's sound very bright, and lack the punch that bass should have. I'm not a bass-head, looking for throbbing bass, but there's simply no kick to the bass in the headphones. I've already removed the Sophia Princess in lieu of the 5AR4, but have heard that changing to the Mullard GZ34 would further improve the sound in the direction I want.
> 
> ...


----------



## davo50

I've had my WA22 now for a few days and enjoying it very much.  The tung sol 5998's I bought seem a little bass heavy and bloated, especially with the LCD-2's, but my tung sol 7236's are very nice and a huge improvement over the stock tubes.  Dynamic and transparent with just a touch of warmth. Has anyone compared the TS to the Sylvania 7236?  Is one supposedly better than the other?


----------



## LostChild1

hi-five said:


> You might try the 6de7s as well.  In a couple swaps it seemed to me like the 6de7 has more "punch" (around 120 to 200Hz maybe?) while the 6fd7 is more balanced in the low end and has more "boom" (80 to 120Hz maybe?).  I can't remember how the two compared in terms of brightness however.  In any case, they are so inexpensive it's probably worth picking up a pair to try out.




I saw that power tubes only cost about 5-10 bucks each, which is definitely a steal and makes me want to try a bunch of them, which there seems to be no reason not to!  

As for the rectifier, I'm keeping an eye on eBay for the Mullard GZ34, and hope it does the trick, because 80-100 dollars is much harder to swallow.  

Thanks for your opinions everyone, I really appreciate it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's funny how bright means different things to different people. Maybe I should have said "thin", as you did. The 6EW7 lack bass, and have a glare in the upper mids. I did not really find them rolled off, though. I have Raytheon, Sylvania, and GE 6EW7's, including the UK made ones (not sure who actually made these - they are GE branded but clearly marked made in UK). But I have not noticed much difference in the various 6EW7's.
> 
> I love the 6FD7, myself, but I've really only used it with the LCD-2. Never noticed any peakiness, but that could also be brand or sample related. I'm using fat bottle black plate 6FD7's.


 

 If they are RCAs then you have the rare good 6FD7s.    I've never heard the Sylvania 6FD7 (the only other one I know of which has black plates) but have heard good things about them. 
   
  You have a really good point too, in that bright means different things to each of us.  I easily forget that.  I remember having trouble with midrange glare with the 6EW7 too.  I had a really hard time getting my head around that, because it only showed up on certain material and doesn't extend into the treble range. My Raytheon 6EW7 are Japanese made so their tone might be different from the regular US made ones.  They definitely take a turn down in frequency response after a certain point in the treble range, it is good for controlling sibilance but tends to make some music sound dull too.
   
  The only tube I ever had in my WA6 that I truly just did not like (apart from maybe the Brimar 6SN7 I just bought sadly) were a pair of GE 6FD7 grey plate.  The entire midrange just sounds wrong in a way that is hard to put into words, and they defined the term midrange glare.  *shudder*  The bass was wet noodle loose too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> In
> 
> I've been loving the clear-top, fatty Sylvania's (6fd7), they do this amp MAJOR justice!  Gain is a bit explosive though!


 
  I regret not ever trying a pair of these.  Since moving on to the 6SN7 I find it hard to go back to any of the drop-in tubes, it just seems like a step back in resolution, imaging and inner detail.  I have a pair of RCA 6FD7 with the rare + shaped black plates, they were my favorite tubes by far before trying 6SN7 and really stood out from anything else in my tube box.  The first night I listened to them after burning them in is still probably the most enjoyable night of listening I have ever spent with the Woo.  It was when I truly fell in love with the tube sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I regret not ever trying a pair of these.  Since moving on to the 6SN7 I find it hard to go back to any of the drop-in tubes, it just seems like a step back in resolution, imaging and inner detail.  I have a pair of RCA 6FD7 with the rare + shaped black plates, they were my favorite tubes by far before trying 6SN7 and really stood out from anything else in my tube box.  The first night I listened to them after burning them in is still probably the most enjoyable night of listening I have ever spent with the Woo.  It was when I truly fell in love with the tube sound.


 


  +1
   
  Since adapting my 6SE for 6SN7 tubes, _I ain't never looked backed!_


----------



## Hi-Five

That's the tube I have yet to try and really need to get set up for.  What are the best adapters for our application?  I'd love something nice and compact.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> +1
> 
> Since adapting my 6SE for 6SN7 tubes, _I ain't never looked backed!_


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> +1
> 
> Since adapting my 6SE for 6SN7 tubes, _I ain't never looked backed!_


 

 This is something on my list to try.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> That's the tube I have yet to try and really need to get set up for.  What are the best adapters for our application?  I'd love something nice and compact.


 


  Shoot this gentleman a PM with your request:  http://www.head-fi.org/user/2359glenn
   
  His adapters are very well made.  If you have a WA6-SE rather than a normal WA6 make sure you mention this to Glenn because the adapter needs an extra resistor to make the 6SN7 compatible.  From conversations I have had with a fellow member we have developed the theory that the 6SN7 doesn't behave the same way in the 6SE as it does in the regular 6.  My experiences have been extremely positive overall, while his have been a bit more mixed so we have come to suspect that the different operating points are resulting in different sound despite sharing notes on the same tubes.  I'm really looking forward to the day I can become a WA22 owner partly because I want to know if the 6SN7 sound I have become accustomed to will still be present with that amp or if I'm hearing something different through its use on the WA6 than what WA22 owners hear operating them in am amp designed for them from the start.
   
  The only way to know for sure if you will like the 6SN7 is to try one out of course. Just beware it can lead to some expensive tube rolling if you catch the bug!  You don't have to buy an expensive rare pair to get a nice 6SN7 though.  Even a cheap pair of RCA silver label 6SN7GTB that don't go for much more than a 6DE7 pair ($30) sounded better when I first started out on this route.  For something that should sound great and still be affordable (say $50-ish), watch for a Sylvania 6SN7GT green label, GE 6SN7GTA, or a Tung Sol 6SN7GT with grey T-plates and copper grid posts.  These are all early 50's tubes, which tend to offer the best sound without hitting the insane prices the more rare tubes go for which are usually from the 40's (except for some famous Sylvanias like the Bad Boys).


----------



## grokit

I can vouch for the GE 6SN7GTA (mine is labeled Zenith) they sound great in my WA22


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Shoot this gentleman a PM with your request:  http://www.head-fi.org/user/2359glenn
> 
> His adapters are very well made.  If you have a WA6-SE rather than a normal WA6 make sure you mention this to Glenn because the adapter needs an extra resistor to make the 6SN7 compatible.  From conversations I have had with a fellow member we have developed the theory that the 6SN7 doesn't behave the same way in the 6SE as it does in the regular 6.  My experiences have been extremely positive overall, while his have been a bit more mixed so we have come to suspect that the different operating points are resulting in different sound despite sharing notes on the same tubes.  I'm really looking forward to the day I can become a WA22 owner partly because I want to know if the 6SN7 sound I have become accustomed to will still be present with that amp or if I'm hearing something different through its use on the WA6 than what WA22 owners hear operating them in am amp designed for them from the start.
> 
> The only way to know for sure if you will like the 6SN7 is to try one out of course. Just beware it can lead to some expensive tube rolling if you catch the bug!  You don't have to buy an expensive rare pair to get a nice 6SN7 though.  Even a cheap pair of RCA silver label 6SN7GTB that don't go for much more than a 6DE7 pair ($30) sounded better when I first started out on this route.  For something that should sound great and still be affordable (say $50-ish), watch for a Sylvania 6SN7GT green label, GE 6SN7GTA, or a Tung Sol 6SN7GT with grey T-plates and copper grid posts.  These are all early 50's tubes, which tend to offer the best sound without hitting the insane prices the more rare tubes go for which are usually from the 40's (except for some famous Sylvanias like the Bad Boys).


 
   
   
   
  A Silent Note made visible... _and vocal!_
   
  Xcalibur255 - well stated & detailed! I just logged on after midnight prepared to answer Hi-five's post. Now instead of banging on the keyboard for text, I can bang on my keyboard to music. Currently in-session with my Woo, listening to some vintage Weather Report ("Night Passage" & "125th St. Congress") and they're sounding s-o-o-o-o good! Best treat I gave my Woo this Winter? An SSD for my Mac, without a doubt!
   
  I bought my adapters from Glenn back in September. On 10 September, I purchased a pair of NOS GE 6SN7GTA-1953 tubes from Jack, $80 shipped, as my very first in the 6SN7 series. Originally wanted Raytheon's but lacked Raytheon money, so I went with GE. I have only 51 hours logged - sounded good in the 6SE. But then, October brought me new money, so Raytheon's it was! Looking to sell the GE's, by the way...
   
  If I've the courage, I may get a pair of Mullard ECC32's or the world reknown TSRP's and get it over with! Should any of my fellow members become interested in my NOS GE's, will part with them and ship at a reasonable price. Time to get a "Weather update on Weather Report.."


----------



## grokit

Haha I've got some of Glenn's adapters on the way to try a couple of these with my WA22 in place of the 6sn7gt


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Haha I've got some of Glenn's adapters on the way to try a couple of these with my WA22 in place of the 6sn7gt


 


  Are those the 6F8G tubes or something, before the GT style chassis for 6SN7 tubes? Don't forget to update us after you've had them on simmer...


----------



## grokit

I'm not really sure of their history but decided to trust the Audiogon seller's description and offered him a price he could have easily refused:
   
  "very rare 1940'matched pair tungsol 6f8g/vt99 tubes. 6f8g similar 6sn7gt and you can find adapter in the net.6f8g sound more classic, pure than 6sn7gt and looks beautiful.Tungsol is best version 6f8g, and even better than famous tungsol 6sn7gt round plate"
   
  Gotta go back to selling headphones and stuff to pay for all these tubes lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm not really sure of their history but decided to trust the Audiogon seller's description and offered him a price he could have easily refused:
> 
> "very rare 1940'matched pair tungsol 6f8g/vt99 tubes. 6f8g similar 6sn7gt and you can find adapter in the net.6f8g sound more classic, pure than 6sn7gt and looks beautiful.Tungsol is best version 6f8g, and even better than famous tungsol 6sn7gt round plate"
> 
> Gotta go back to selling headphones and stuff to pay for all these tubes lol


 
   
   
  I'm surprised I recalled what they were, as sleepy as I've gotten after 0300 hrs. Your tubes look at once glorious and menacing... I want a pair! How much for you to bring 'em home?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey Guys: it's 3:40 AM!  Turn off your Woos.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Guys: it's 3:40 AM!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Good idea, need to rise in a few short hours (turns off Woo @ 0415 hrs). Yet my late nite listening session has rejuvenated me! Since recent changes made to my system, I'm finding joy in discovering new micro details. Hope you go on to have a productive and most brilliant day... wait! I'm trying to price some 6F8G's before sunrise!
   
  Post Script.: Now that I'm fixin' to say my prayers before jumping in bed - my heart & prayers to _The Land of The Rising Sun_ and their relatives 'round the globe.


----------



## Skylab

I have a mountain of great 6SN7 tubes, since that is what my Cary preamp uses.  But in the WA6, I preferred the black-plate fat-bottle Sylvania 6FD7 over any of the 6SN7's I tried (I have Glenn's very nice adapters).  JMO, YMMV, etc.  But given how cheap the 6FD7 is, it seems like people should try those before spending a bucket on adapters and 6SN7's.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are those the 6F8G tubes or something, before the GT style chassis for 6SN7 tubes? Don't forget to update us after you've had them on simmer...


 


   
   Those are TungSol 6F8G. I have a pair of them and sound as good as my TS RPBG 6SN7GT.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a mountain of great 6SN7 tubes, since that is what my Cary preamp uses.  But in the WA6, I preferred the black-plate fat-bottle Sylvania 6FD7 over any of the 6SN7's I tried (I have Glenn's very nice adapters).  JMO, YMMV, etc.  But given how cheap the 6FD7 is, it seems like people should try those before spending a bucket on adapters and 6SN7's.


 


  I agree. Not satisfied with the stock 6EW7's, 6FD7's were the logical next step... and I took it. So, what did they sound like in my 6SE? I have no idea. Ordered a pair of fat-bottle 6FD7's from Jack but one arrived DOA. He asked me to send him a pix so he could match it and send another one.
   
  After one week he was unable to do so. And offered to send me another pair or a refund upon their return. With all the talk of TS RPBG 6SN7GT's heating up at the time, I found myself seduced. And wanted to leap into the world of 6SN7 tubes in general. 
   
  Patience could have served me and the WA6SE well. But we all know in this hobby, patience is a premium. Regarding that mountain of great 6SN7 tubes you have, would love to drop in this Spring (cash & tote in hand) and buy a pair (just a single pair for my fascination with DeoxIT GOLD) of something good from you.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Those are TungSol 6F8G. I have a pair of them and sound as good as my TS RPBG 6SN7GT.


 


  Thanks, musicman59. If I'm fortunate, I can secure a pair of TS 6F8G's this Spring. Hopefully before they runaway on the heels of the raging bull that left Fine China & TS RPBG 6SN7GT prices _shattered_ in its wake!


----------



## Skylab

SilentOne if you ever find yourself in Chicago, look me up


----------



## emremusic

I hope it's ok to ask the same question in two different threads, but it seems like all of the exprienced woo audio owners are in this thread...
   
  I would like to know the sonic differences between wa22 and wa6se- maxed. According to a response from Jack, "Wa22 is better choice if you have a balanced source, if not, then wa6se is better."
  Can someone explain, why wa22 is better for a balanced source, and why 6SE is better if you dont have balanced source? and is there anybody out there who have owned both of these amps and can give some input about their sonic differences??
   
  I know there is a thread just for my exact question:   
   http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/491755/woo-wa6-se-vs-wa22/15#post_7341373 but nobody seems to really answer it there.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## the_equalizer

Basically, because the WA22 is a fully balanced amplifier (that can also work with single ended sources) whereas the WA6 is a single ended amplifier (and can only work with single ended sources).


----------



## mikemalter

I have a question for PWD with Bridge owners.
   
  I was able to get a slightly used (10 hours) PWD with Bridge.  In this early stage of break-in, I am finding that the coax is much better than the bridge.  Does this change?  I remember reading a post were a PWD owner said that sonically the bridge was just below the HDMI connection and above coax.  However I am finding the bridge not so smooth and coax seems ok.  Have PWD owners experienced that?  Did the bridge take longer to break in?  I've heard the PWD takes about 50 hours to clear up and then over the next 200 hours there are subtle changes.  Any comments on that?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Golfnutz

Would anyone have an idea if the clear glass 6F8G (VT-99) sound any different then the grey coated 6F8G (VT-99)?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> I've had my WA22 now for a few days and enjoying it very much.  The tung sol 5998's I bought seem a little bass heavy and bloated, especially with the LCD-2's, but my tung sol 7236's are very nice and a huge improvement over the stock tubes.  Dynamic and transparent with just a touch of warmth. Has anyone compared the TS to the Sylvania 7236?  Is one supposedly better than the other?


 

 I find the 7236 a bit more SS sounding and a great match for the LCD-2 (I slightly prefer the Tung-Sol 7236 over the Sylvania 7236 FWIW). But for my T1/HD800s, I prefer the more "tubey" 5998s. So I guess it depends what headphone / sound you're after.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I find the 7236 a bit more SS sounding and a great match for the LCD-2 (I slightly prefer the Tung-Sol 7236 over the Sylvania 7236 FWIW). But for my T1/HD800s, I prefer the more "tubey" 5998s. So I guess it depends what headphone / sound you're after.


 

 What's the price difference between the two?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> What's the price difference between the two?


 

 Depends where you can find them...they are very similar in price $120 +/- 10% ish (for a pair).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Depends where you can find them...they are very similar in price $120 +/- 10% ish (for a pair).


 

 Thanks MacedonianHero.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I find the 7236 a bit more SS sounding and a great match for the LCD-2 (I slightly prefer the Tung-Sol 7236 over the Sylvania 7236 FWIW). But for my T1/HD800s, I prefer the more "tubey" 5998s. So I guess it depends what headphone / sound you're after.


 
  Thanks MH, that's pretty much what I am discovering.  5998's for my HD800 and 7236's for my LCD-2.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Thanks MH, that's pretty much what I am discovering.  5998's for my HD800 and 7236's for my LCD-2.


 


 Great thing with a tube amp....roll the tubes and you can tweak it for 2 very different headphones.


----------



## Hi-Five

Thanks a lot Xcalibur, great info.  Good to know about the integrated resistor too, I had read on another thread (I think) that some mods would need to be made to the 6SE to accomodate 6sn7 drivers, and I was a bit less than thrilled about opening up the case and messing with Jack's beautiful handiwork.
   
  Hopefully I will take the plunge and see where it ends up.  I usually am unable to resist trying new tweaks in audio, such is the sickness we all suffer from.  I've seen the 6sn7 mentioned many times in a variety of settings and I think I would be kicking myself if I never took advantage and had a listen.
   
  Thanks again for everyone's input, this is a kick@ss thread!
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Shoot this gentleman a PM with your request:  http://www.head-fi.org/user/2359glenn
> 
> His adapters are very well made.  If you have a WA6-SE rather than a normal WA6 make sure you mention this to Glenn because the adapter needs an extra resistor to make the 6SN7 compatible.  From conversations I have had with a fellow member we have developed the theory that the 6SN7 doesn't behave the same way in the 6SE as it does in the regular 6.  My experiences have been extremely positive overall, while his have been a bit more mixed so we have come to suspect that the different operating points are resulting in different sound despite sharing notes on the same tubes.  I'm really looking forward to the day I can become a WA22 owner partly because I want to know if the 6SN7 sound I have become accustomed to will still be present with that amp or if I'm hearing something different through its use on the WA6 than what WA22 owners hear operating them in am amp designed for them from the start.
> 
> The only way to know for sure if you will like the 6SN7 is to try one out of course. Just beware it can lead to some expensive tube rolling if you catch the bug!  You don't have to buy an expensive rare pair to get a nice 6SN7 though.  Even a cheap pair of RCA silver label 6SN7GTB that don't go for much more than a 6DE7 pair ($30) sounded better when I first started out on this route.  For something that should sound great and still be affordable (say $50-ish), watch for a Sylvania 6SN7GT green label, GE 6SN7GTA, or a Tung Sol 6SN7GT with grey T-plates and copper grid posts.  These are all early 50's tubes, which tend to offer the best sound without hitting the insane prices the more rare tubes go for which are usually from the 40's (except for some famous Sylvanias like the Bad Boys).


----------



## Hi-Five

Good news SilentOne,
   
  I'm glad to know you've had a positive experience with the 6SE, I had previously come across lukewarm reviews of the 6sn7 in the SE, but seemed like too few data points to get a real good idea if it was worth the jump.  I've got no excuses now though.
   
  (I can hear my wallet whimpering in fear...)
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> A Silent Note made visible... _and vocal!_
> 
> Xcalibur255 - well stated & detailed! I just logged on after midnight prepared to answer Hi-five's post. Now instead of banging on the keyboard for text, I can bang on my keyboard to music. Currently in-session with my Woo, listening to some vintage Weather Report ("Night Passage" & "125th St. Congress") and they're sounding s-o-o-o-o good! Best treat I gave my Woo this Winter? An SSD for my Mac, without a doubt!
> 
> ...


----------



## Hi-Five

Interesting Skylab,  I had bought a few pairs blind from an online seller and they sent me unmarked (no brand name) clear-top, fat bottle 6fd7s that I just fell in love with.  After your post yesterday I had a peek inside and sure enough they are black plates inside and stamped made in USA.  The seller thought they were Phillips or Sylvania's but wasn't sure.  I'd been operating under the assumption they were Syl's, now a bit more confident.
   
  My only gripe is the higher gain.  I have the stepped DACT and have to trim with my preamp with some CD's just to tolerate the first step!  Well mastered discs are phenomenal though!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a mountain of great 6SN7 tubes, since that is what my Cary preamp uses.  But in the WA6, I preferred the black-plate fat-bottle Sylvania 6FD7 over any of the 6SN7's I tried (I have Glenn's very nice adapters).  JMO, YMMV, etc.  But given how cheap the 6FD7 is, it seems like people should try those before spending a bucket on adapters and 6SN7's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> SilentOne if you ever find yourself in Chicago, look me up


 


  I shall, indeed. If only I had gotten into tubes much earlier. I use to have a ball in Chicago (former member of the trade), checking in to a suite at The Allerton Hotel and work CES at McCormick. I've always enjoyed working Summer CES/Chicago over Winter CES/Vegas. But hey, I saw that pix you posted here of that mountain - looking forward to a virtual tour when my tax refund cometh.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Interesting Skylab,  I had bought a few pairs blind from an online seller and they sent me unmarked (no brand name) clear-top, fat bottle 6fd7s that I just fell in love with.  After your post yesterday I had a peek inside and sure enough they are black plates inside and stamped made in USA.  The seller thought they were Phillips or Sylvania's but wasn't sure.  I'd been operating under the assumption they were Syl's, now a bit more confident.
> 
> My only gripe is the higher gain.  I have the stepped DACT and have to trim with my preamp with some CD's just to tolerate the first step!  Well mastered discs are phenomenal though!


 


  Another Silent note made visible... and _vocal._
   
  One of the dividends I reaped by going with 6SN7 to 6DE7 adapters was cooler operating temperatures. This may not mean much to some. But I received my 'Woo' 9 July 2010 and that bad boy was running _hot_ in the summer with 6EW7's in place!
   
  Now the amp seems to work with much less effort. Sometimes, the operating temp is so cool I'm suspicious! "Is everything o.k.?" I think to myself as I lean over to touch the little one in more than one place for some sort of confirmation.
   
  Ultimately, the confirmation comes by the way of the volume control. A quick check and all is as expected - _fine_.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I hope it's ok to ask the same question in two different threads, but it seems like all of the exprienced woo audio owners are in this thread...
> 
> I would like to know the sonic differences between wa22 and wa6se- maxed. According to a response from Jack, "Wa22 is better choice if you have a balanced source, if not, then wa6se is better."
> Can someone explain, why wa22 is better for a balanced source, and why 6SE is better if you dont have balanced source? and is there anybody out there who have owned both of these amps and can give some input about their sonic differences??
> ...


 

  
  About this thread (my opinion expressed without payment): what gives this thread its enduring qualities can be summed up in one word - _Magic_. For those readers who don't appreciate the economy of one word, I can sum it up in three - gravity, diversity & balance. After all, Woo Audio owners do not live their lives in complete vacuum (sorry, couldn't help it!).
   
  We're able to discuss (and often do) a wide variety of topics, but it's often balanced by our experiences (audio related) as Woo Owners. And there's enough interests here for gravity to bring us back, if only to read, if one is not always up for posting. These comments were made in recognition of the original poster and the valuable contributors that make this thread worth visiting.
   
  Silent One


----------



## shipsupt

xcalibur255 said:


> Shoot this gentleman a PM with your request:  http://www.head-fi.org/user/2359glenn
> 
> His adapters are very well made.  If you have a WA6-SE rather than a normal WA6 make sure you mention this to Glenn because the adapter needs an extra resistor to make the 6SN7 compatible.  From conversations I have had with a fellow member we have developed the theory that the 6SN7 doesn't behave the same way in the 6SE as it does in the regular 6.  My experiences have been extremely positive overall, while his have been a bit more mixed so we have come to suspect that the different operating points are resulting in different sound despite sharing notes on the same tubes.  I'm really looking forward to the day I can become a WA22 owner partly because I want to know if the 6SN7 sound I have become accustomed to will still be present with that amp or if I'm hearing something different through its use on the WA6 than what WA22 owners hear operating them in am amp designed for them from the start.





 WA6-SE related....

All this talk about the 6SN7 got me interested. I emailed Jack asking if he offered adapters and his response confused me slightly;

"We will soon have several tube adapters. However, 6SN7cannot be used in the 6SE or you can damage the tube.

Thanks,
Jack"

Interesting to hear he will offer adapters, but does his reference to not being able to use them in the SE mean without an adapter, that it is not possible at all, or is this the reason for the extra resistor in Glenn's adapter?

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  As I understand it, that is the purpose of the extra resistor; damage and mayhem could result without it. Did you send Glenn an email as well? 
   
  Post Script.: (24 August, I asked Glenn about the capacitor & resistor, tube health and longevity w/adapters)  "That is why the adapter for the SE has the resistor to reduce the current in 1/2 the 6SN7.  
  

 Glenn"


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> As I understand it, that is the purpose of the extra resistor; damage and mayhem could result without it. Did you send Glenn an email as well?




I did, a PM, and hope to hear from him. I wasn't sure if he was still active here so tried Jack as well... No patience here I guess 

Thanks!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I got the PSA P10 today.  Took awhile to hook up the beast as space is tight.  Haven't had time to do anything other than hook everything up, power it on, and snap a few pics.
   
  Back Shot

   
  Desk Shot

   
  Rack Shot

   
  Zoomed Rack with the WA22 of Course


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I got the PSA P10 today.  Took awhile to hook up the beast as space is tight.  Haven't had time to do anything other than hook everything up, power it on, and snap a few pics.
> 
> Back Shot
> 
> ...


 


  (Silent One finds his silence easily broken, takes off headphones and studies photograph for a moment...)
   
  OH MY!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I got the PSA P10 today.  Took awhile to hook up the beast as space is tight.  Haven't had time to do anything other than hook everything up, power it on, and snap a few pics.
> 
> Back Shot
> 
> ...


 

 So nice!  I ordered a P5 and it should be here this week they say.  Wanted a P10, but just upgraded to a PWD with the bridge.
   
  How does your stuff sound?  Was your AC coming out of the wall?


----------



## WindyCityCy

I've evolved from a PSA Quintet to a PPP plugged into a Soloist Premier to the P10 plugged into a Soloist Premier.  Been playing with the P10 and listening for the past 2 hours now.  Meant to go to bed over an hour ago but you know how that goes.  Sounds wonderful.  I've been listening to the LCD-2 lately but switched back to the HD800 tonight for the initial test ride with the P10.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So nice!  I ordered a P5 and it should be here this week they say.  Wanted a P10, but just upgraded to a PWD with the bridge.
> 
> How does your stuff sound?  Was your AC coming out of the wall?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As I understand it, that is the purpose of the extra resistor; damage and mayhem could result without it. Did you send Glenn an email as well?
> 
> Post Script.: (24 August, I asked Glenn about the capacitor & resistor, tube health and longevity w/adapters)  "That is why the adapter for the SE has the resistor to reduce the current in 1/2 the 6SN7.
> 
> Glenn"


 

 Yes, this is right.  The risk isn't to the amp per se, but to the 6SN7 tubes themselves.  They will live a short life without the resistor in the adapter.  On a related note per your post from earlier, I definitely would not recommend internal modifications to the amp to gain any sort of tube compatibility, mostly because it would make the amp incompatible with everything else not to mention the other risks that go with internal mods.  I think maybe the talk you heard about changing parts inside the WA6SE for tube compatibility was regarding the 6FD7, a tube that was previously incompatible with the amp (where as it is fine to use on the WA6) but could be made compatible by changing a few parts in the amp that would have been stressed otherwise.  Close to a year ago Jack started making the 6SE compatible with the 6FD7 as a permanent feature rather than implementing it for customers who asked, with the warning that 6FD7 tubes can be prone to buzzing when used in a 6SE.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So, I like to think I've had good luck overall with my tube buying, never feeling like I've wasted my money.  Until I picked up these Brimars that is.  It left such a bad taste in my mouth I've been checking eBay a bit without really thinking about it knowing I wouldn't be happy until I tried one more tube I have not yet heard.  Tonight I nabbed what was probably at the top of my "am still curious about" list in the form of a National Union 6SN7GT black glass, for what seems like a very reasonable price given how rare they are now.  Here's hoping these are a more successful experiment. 
   
  The Brimars still puzzle me.  Nobody has anything bad to say about those tubes.  Even the later vintages are regarded as great tubes, but they just do not agree with me at *all* to the point where I'm almost suspicious there is something amiss with them or more likely amiss with how they are interacting with the amp.


----------



## Skylab

Xcalibur, were yours the black, grey, or clear glass Brimars?  I have the black and grey, both of which I like. I've never heard the clears.


----------



## SpudHarris

Rob, would you mind if I draw on your experience one more time please?
   
  I have ichy ears and am fancying some new/different phones. I had K701's a while back (before my W6) and quite like the look of the K702's but wondered how they pair with tubes??
   
  It's a little off topic I know but they will be used with my Woo 6.
   
  Anyone else with an opinion, please feel free to chime in....
   
  Thanks in advance.
   
  Nigel


----------



## Skylab

I didn't love the K702, but for the price they can be had for, they are certainly worth trying.  There is no doubt that tubes are better with them than SS, IMO, as their main liability IMO was a rather dry midrange.  The WA6 is a great choice since it can handle their 70 ohm impedance.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yes, this is right.  The risk isn't to the amp per se, but to the 6SN7 tubes themselves.  They will live a short life without the resistor in the adapter.  On a related note per your post from earlier, I definitely would not recommend internal modifications to the amp to gain any sort of tube compatibility, mostly because it would make the amp incompatible with everything else not to mention the other risks that go with internal mods.  I think maybe the talk you heard about changing parts inside the WA6SE for tube compatibility was regarding the 6FD7, a tube that was previously incompatible with the amp (where as it is fine to use on the WA6) but could be made compatible by changing a few parts in the amp that would have been stressed otherwise.  Close to a year ago Jack started making the 6SE compatible with the 6FD7 as a permanent feature rather than implementing it for customers who asked, with the warning that 6FD7 tubes can be prone to buzzing when used in a 6SE.


 
   
   
  RE: inquiry into internal mods to the WA6SE for tube compatibility
   
  Actually, that was an exchange between you and Hi-Five. My own inquiry that I shared, between Glenn and I, was simply about tube life if I bought his adapters last Autumn. My own 6SE is latest Gen that readily accepts 6FD7's.
   
  About your Brimars - are you able to exchange them? Perhaps, they tested fine but it could be something going on mysterious with one particular tube and won't play nice no matter what amp it's in.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Xcalibur, were yours the black, grey, or clear glass Brimars?  I have the black and grey, both of which I like. I've never heard the clears.


 


  Mine are grey plate, clear glass.  They appear to be made in the 60's.  They are really the most unusual tube I've heard, and changed the most from burn-in out of anything I've tried as well.  What bothers me about them, more than anything else, is how densely they present the sounstage.  There is no air between anything, like every note is crammed against every other note.  It makes vocals sound....... wrong.  The tone was very different from what I thought they would be as well.  I wouldn't call them warm, lush, sweet, or anything else like that.  Again, I can't seem to come up with a word to describe it.  The tonal balance itself isn't all that unbalanced, there is just something in the midrange that sounds wrong to me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Rob, would you mind if I draw on your experience one more time please?
> 
> I have ichy ears and am fancying some new/different phones. I had K701's a while back (before my W6) and quite like the look of the K702's but wondered how they pair with tubes??
> 
> ...


 
  K701 and WA6 is my combo.  If you have any detailed or specific questions, feel free to send them my way.  In general, the WA6 balanced the phones out.  With the right tubes you can completely correct their dry, thin midrange and make the phones sound full.  I was also able to take the sharp bite out of the treble range and transients by going to the 6SN7 as well as greatly improve the deep bass. 
   
  Actually I don't think I've ever talked about that in this thread.  When using 6FD7 or any other tubes in that family the bass seems to just fall off below about 80hz.  Maybe that experience is unique to me, but whenever anything deep was required the amp could not deliver.  The 6SN7 completely resolves this, delivering both better response down low and greater speed and tautness to the notes.


----------



## SpudHarris

Cheers Xcalibur, I was hoping to hear that as I have just about pulled the trigger on a pair of 702's.
   
  I'm already with you on the tube combo - My EML and Bad Boys haven't left my WA6 for a long time. For the price I think the 702's are worth a punt.... Thanks both for the feedback as always, this is the best/friendliest thread ever!!


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> K701 and WA6 is my combo.  If you have any detailed or specific questions, feel free to send them my way.  In general, the WA6 balanced the phones out.  With the right tubes you can completely correct their dry, thin midrange and make the phones sound full.  I was also able to take the sharp bite out of the treble range and transients by going to the 6SN7 as well as greatly improve the deep bass.
> 
> Actually I don't think I've ever talked about that in this thread.  When using 6FD7 or any other tubes in that family the bass seems to just fall off below about 80hz.  Maybe that experience is unique to me, but whenever anything deep was required the amp could not deliver.  The 6SN7 completely resolves this, delivering both better response down low and greater speed and tautness to the notes.


 

 Interesting... WA6 + K701 is my combo too, but I run it with 6FD7 tubes. Curiously enough, what I like about that combo is the bass: unbloated, precise, clear. I would have to try it with 6SN7 but I just ordered a WA2 from Jack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and unless I find something to sell that allows me to keep my WA6 I'll have to part with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Bittersweet regards,


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Cheers Xcalibur, I was hoping to hear that as I have just about pulled the trigger on a pair of 702's.
> 
> I'm already with you on the tube combo - My EML and Bad Boys haven't left my WA6 for a long time. For the price I think the 702's are worth a punt.... Thanks both for the feedback as always, this is the best/friendliest thread ever!!


 

  
  Bad Boys are the best tubes I have found for the K701.  They play to its strengths (lots of air between notes, wide soundstage, good inner resolution) while masking its weaknesses (bass with little weight, thin midrange, peaky treble).  The Tung Sol round plate offers superior resolution and 3D imaging (plus the nicest bass I've heard from the amp), but the Bad Boys overall are the better listen because they synergize with the K701 so well.  I've heard K702 has a bit different sound than the K701, mostly to make the upper mids and lower treble a bit less hot, but how much of a difference there is I'm not sure.
   
  If you like an open, airy sound you will enjoy your new combo quite a bit I think.  The sense of openess in the treble is really quite striking, all without being bright at all.  It took a lot of tube rolling to find both of those qualities (open and not bright) at the same time.  The K701 usually either sounds open and bright, or balanced and closed-in, with the line between the two frustratingly thin.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





the_equalizer said:


> Interesting... WA6 + K701 is my combo too, but I run it with 6FD7 tubes. Curiously enough, what I like about that combo is the bass: unbloated, precise, clear. I would have to try it with 6SN7 but I just ordered a WA2 from Jack
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My RCA 6FD7 blackplates did offer the clearest and most precise bass of any of my drop-in tubes, but where they all were coming up short was in frequency extension.  I should test again because the different was so pronounced it might have been operating condition related or even just my ears on that night.  I've found if the barometric pressure is high I rarely have an enjoyable night of listening on headphones.


----------



## Hi-Five

I should plug in the ol'701s and see how they do with the 6fd7s in my rig right now.  My brief impressions were that the tube was rolled off but at a very light slope; the ultra-low end was huge in my modded D5000's, but even cymbals rock bass with those! *kidding*
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My RCA 6FD7 blackplates did offer the clearest and most precise bass of any of my drop-in tubes, but where they all were coming up short was in frequency extension.  I should test again because the different was so pronounced it might have been operating condition related or even just my ears on that night.  I've found if the barometric pressure is high I rarely have an enjoyable night of listening on headphones.


----------



## Hi-Five

That must have been what I was reading about, and yes, I absolutely didn't want to perform any mods that might limit my overall selection of tubes.
   
  In any case, I pm'd Glenn and will have some adapters on the way soon, thanks again for the recommendations guys!  Now to scope out some tubes.........
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yes, this is right.  The risk isn't to the amp per se, but to the 6SN7 tubes themselves.  They will live a short life without the resistor in the adapter.  On a related note per your post from earlier, I definitely would not recommend internal modifications to the amp to gain any sort of tube compatibility, mostly because it would make the amp incompatible with everything else not to mention the other risks that go with internal mods.  I think maybe the talk you heard about changing parts inside the WA6SE for tube compatibility was regarding the 6FD7, a tube that was previously incompatible with the amp (where as it is fine to use on the WA6) but could be made compatible by changing a few parts in the amp that would have been stressed otherwise.  Close to a year ago Jack started making the 6SE compatible with the 6FD7 as a permanent feature rather than implementing it for customers who asked, with the warning that 6FD7 tubes can be prone to buzzing when used in a 6SE.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I find the 7236 a bit more SS sounding and a great match for the LCD-2 (I slightly prefer the Tung-Sol 7236 over the Sylvania 7236 FWIW). But for my T1/HD800s, I prefer the more "tubey" 5998s. So I guess it depends what headphone / sound you're after.


 
   
  Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Thanks MH, that's pretty much what I am discovering.  5998's for my HD800 and 7236's for my LCD-2.


 
   

 I agree with the above but found that with the LCD-2 the 5998s sounded good with the Sophia 7236 rectifier and the LCD-2. Then I rolled out the TSRPs and found that I still really liked the same setup with the GE 6SN7GTA in their place. Tube rolling is a funny thing, I think I have enough now that I could esily utilize a second WA22 if I had the HD800 back in my collection!


----------



## Wedge

Al this talk about 5998s and 7236s, but I seriously can not find any of the Tung-Sol versions of the tubes.  I am kind of curious if anyone might divulge where a pair of Tung-Sol 7236 or 5998 can be procured.


----------



## Skylab

5998's used to be easy to get, but they got popular, and are harder to find and more expensive than they were.  The place I used to recommend, which I still believe has them, I have read a few posts here that people thought the tubes they got were badly microphonic, so I do not recommend them anymore.  Bottom line is they are not easy to get, and your best bet may be the FS forums here. 
   
  The 7236 is even harder to find than the 5998.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 5998's used to be easy to get, but they got popular, and are harder to find and more expensive than they were.  The place I used to recommend, which I still believe has them, I have read a few posts here that people thought the tubes they got were badly microphonic, so I do not recommend them anymore.  Bottom line is they are not easy to get, and your best bet may be the FS forums here.
> 
> The 7236 is even harder to find than the 5998.


 

 I agree, I ordered two pairs of 5998 and all four were bad. I was lucky and the seller let me return them for a full refund.


----------



## Skylab

This is what happens a lot when a certain tube type is hunted to near extinction - as the popularity grows, and supplies dwindle, more marginal tubes start to get sold.  It's a shame.  The 5998 was a bit of an esoteric tube, and only made by Tung-Sol.  And given what it was used for, when tubes fell out of favor, most of them were probably thrown in the trash.  No one would ever have imagined audiophiles paying $50 each for them...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> This is what happens a lot when a certain tube type is hunted to near extinction - as the popularity grows, and supplies dwindle, more marginal tubes start to get sold.  It's a shame.  The 5998 was a bit of an esoteric tube, and only made by Tung-Sol.  And given what it was used for, when tubes fell out of favor, most of them were probably thrown in the trash.  No one would ever have imagined audiophiles paying $50 each for them...


 

 Do you think Tung Sol made Arcturus 5998's as well?


----------



## Skylab

Absolutely they did.  *ONLY* Tung-Sol made the 5998.  Those that were branded Chatham (which Tung-Sol owned at one point), IBM, and Arcturus were all Tung-Sol.  And so were the Wetsern Electric 421A, which often sold for ridiculous prices, given that they were 100% identical to the Tung-Sol 5998.
   
  Arcturus sold a lot of rebranded Tung-Sol tubes.  I have a pair of the fabled black-glass round-plate 6SN7GT's branded Arcturus that I got for $50 in phenomenal condition.  I'm pretty certain Arcturus was ONLY a rebrander.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Absolutely they did.  *ONLY* Tung-Sol made the 5998.  Those that were branded Chatham (which Tung-Sol owned at one point), IBM, and Arcturus were all Tung-Sol.  And so were the Wetsern Electric 421A, which often sold for ridiculous prices, given that they were 100% identical to the Tung-Sol 5998.
> 
> Arcturus sold a lot of rebranded Tung-Sol tubes.  I have a pair of the fabled black-glass round-plate 6SN7GT's branded Arcturus that I got for $50 in phenomenal condition.  I'm pretty certain Arcturus was ONLY a rebrander.


 

 Thanks for that info Skylab. I tried searching for Arcturus and really couldn't find that much about them other then the Blue glass tubes. I did read they rebranded some stuff, but the comments weren't that positive. Basically saying Arcturus was given sub standard quality tubes from the real manufacture.  Since I don't know myself, nor the source, I won't make any judgment. I did find one site selling Arcturus 5998.


----------



## rosgr63

I have read that the drop in quality might have happened very late with Arcturus, who initially were a very good brand.
  Then they might have started buying sub standard tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Could be. Some rebranders also began with very good brands, but later went with Russian or Chinese tubes. Haltron and Zaerix in the UK for example rebranded Mullard and Brimar for a long time, but later sold Russian tubes, and so if you are not careful you will see stuff advertised on EBay from these brands as UK made that is absolutely not. Packaged in UK, but made in Russia.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 5998's used to be easy to get, but they got popular, and are harder to find and more expensive than they were.  The place I used to recommend, which I still believe has them, I have read a few posts here that people thought the tubes they got were badly microphonic, so I do not recommend them anymore.  Bottom line is they are not easy to get, and your best bet may be the FS forums here.
> 
> The 7236 is even harder to find than the 5998.


 

 Um... pretty sure I know who that is you used to recommend.  I am pretty new to these tube types and think I am one of his victims.  The 5998's I got from him are extremely euphonic.  At first I hated them with my LCD-2, but liked with HD800.  After further listening, they aren't good with HD800 either    Too flabby and euphonic.  I will try for a refund but don't expect much.  On the other hand, I just got in some Chatham 6as7g for cheap and they are really good!


----------



## Skylab

Just to be very clear, if you didn;t like them because you feel they are _*euphonic*_, that is just a personal sonic preference, and I don't think it is a legitimate reason to ask someone to take back NOS tubes.
   
  What I said was some people got tubes that were _*microphonic*_.  That is very different - that's an actual problem with the tubes.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Just to be very clear, if you didn;t like them because you feel they are _*euphonic*_, that is just a personal sonic preference, and I don't think it is a legitimate reason to ask someone to take back NOS tubes.
> 
> What I said was some people got tubes that were _*microphonic*_.  That is very different - that's an actual problem with the tubes.


 
  Yeah, I know the difference- microphonic being when they are tapped, moved, vibrate, etc. make noise that you can hear through the transducer.   My tubes may actually be that, I haven't tested for that.  These though are euphonic to the point of being flabby with the bass completely dominating, leaving a constant hum or noise dominating the other frequencies.  Almost an "echo" sound.  I can't imagine that anyone would enjoy the sound of these, thus my suspicions that they are bad.  Could also be microphonic, will have to test for that.


----------



## davo50

And I know, that "euphonic" can actually be a very pleasurable sound within limits.  The reason we love tubes!


----------



## Skylab

OK that sounds much more like an actual problem, I agree. The 5998's are not that euphonic!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Um... pretty sure I know who that is you used to recommend.  I am pretty new to these tube types and think I am one of his victims.  The 5998's I got from him are extremely euphonic.  At first I hated them with my LCD-2, but liked with HD800.  After further listening, they aren't good with HD800 either    Too flabby and euphonic.  I will try for a refund but don't expect much.  On the other hand, I just got in some Chatham 6as7g for cheap and they are really good!


 
   
  What rectifier have you tried with the 5998? I didn't really like the 5998 with the LCD-2 until I put the Sophia Princess in, which I hadn't been impressed with before either. But the two together sound pretty good to me with the LCD-2. I have tried a couple of different driver pairs (TS 6sn7gt, GE 6sn7gta) as well with that setup that I like so far.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 5998's used to be easy to get, but they got popular, and are harder to find and more expensive than they were.  The place I used to recommend, which I still believe has them, I have read a few posts here that people thought the tubes they got were badly microphonic, so I do not recommend them anymore.  Bottom line is they are not easy to get, and your best bet may be the FS forums here.
> 
> The 7236 is even harder to find than the 5998.


 

 Skylab, does vintage matter much with these tubes?  I find I consistently like the sound of older tubes, the older they are the better they sound.  Does this hold true for the 5998 and 6AS7 as well, or can one feel confident they are getting the same sound regardless of vintage so long as they test well and are quiet?
   
  My biggest concern over going to WA22 is the rarity of these tubes.  If one has to worry about finding the right vintage it would make it that much worse.


----------



## Skylab

The 6AS7G was not produced over a huge range of time, I don't think - not like a 6SN7 in this way.  The 5998, even less. 
   
  But finding 6AS7's is not a problem.  I stockpiled a bunch all the way back to my DV 337 days, but you can but JAN GE 6AS7GA tubes, NOS, from PartsExpress, for $12 each.  Pick up several pairs of these and stick them in the closet.  You are then secure for a long, long time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think I'm going to concentrate on the 5998 and 7236 because of my intention to go with the LCD-2 in the future.  I've noticed there do seem to be a ton of RCA and GE 6AS7s and 6080s out there still.
   
  So in your opinion all the 5998s sound the same regardless of the manufacture year printed on the side?  There probably isn't anybody on the forum who knows more about this type of tube, we're lucky to have you in the Woo owners forum.    I literally lit up when I read one of your posts indicating that Tung Sol was the only producer of the 5998, because not having to brand hunt automatically makes the process less frustrating.


----------



## mikemalter

Could use some help from J River fans.
   
  Am looking at media servers to feed my PS Audio PWD w/bridge.  I've installed the trial version of J River on one of my servers.  However I can't get the media server to run as a service the way I could get Twonky to work.  Basically, if nobody is logged in to the server J River stops working, however Twonky would work in this instance.
   
  Does anyone know how to configure J River as a true windows service so it will continue to run on the computer even with everyone logged out?
   
  Thank you.


----------



## Skylab

yes it is my opinion that all 5998's sound the same. There are top getter and bottom getter variants but i detect no sonic differences between them. And every 5998 was made by Tung-Sol.

 Do note that the GE "5998A" is totally different, basically a relabeled 6AS7GA, and not a 5998 at all.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thanks for your help Skylab.  That will make the hunt a bit easier.   The info about the 5998A is also helpful, I had been suspicious as to why they were so much cheaper.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Could use some help from J River fans.
> 
> Am looking at media servers to feed my PS Audio PWD w/bridge.  I've installed the trial version of J River on one of my servers.  However I can't get the media server to run as a service the way I could get Twonky to work.  Basically, if nobody is logged in to the server J River stops working, however Twonky would work in this instance.
> 
> ...


 

  
  We've a pretty good group over at computeraudiophile.com - and will definitely have the above matters addressed.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Al this talk about 5998s and 7236s, but I seriously can not find any of the Tung-Sol versions of the tubes.  I am kind of curious if anyone might divulge where a pair of Tung-Sol 7236 or 5998 can be procured.


 


 You might want to PM Jack of Woo Audio for the 7236 Tung-Sols.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> This is what happens a lot when a certain tube type is hunted to near extinction - as the popularity grows, and supplies dwindle, more marginal tubes start to get sold.  It's a shame.  The 5998 was a bit of an esoteric tube, and only made by Tung-Sol.  And given what it was used for, when tubes fell out of favor, most of them were probably thrown in the trash.  No one would ever have imagined audiophiles paying $50 each for them...


 

 And that's why I ordered a second backup pair of 5998s from my tube source. I know I'm hoarding a bit here, but they are the best tubes with my T1/HD800s.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





grokit said:


> What rectifier have you tried with the 5998? I didn't really like the 5998 with the LCD-2 until I put the Sophia Princess in, which I hadn't been impressed with before either. But the two together sound pretty good to me with the LCD-2. I have tried a couple of different driver pairs (TS 6sn7gt, GE 6sn7gta) as well with that setup that I like so far.


 
   
  All I have for now is a Tung Sol 5u4g.  I really think my 5998's are bad or bordering on bad though, so not sure a different rectifier would make any difference.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My admiration for the Brimar 5R4GY just continues to grow as I try it with more tubes.  I'm rolling all my 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 with it as a little break from the 6SN7 for fun, and I have to say this is the best any of these tubes have sounded.  I don't make that statement lightly either because I've tried my EML 274B with most of these tubes.  I feel the EML pairs better with the 6SN7 and didn't find much synergy with these tubes, but the Brimar has been enjoyable with every driver tube I've tried (outside of, ironically enough, the Brimar 6SN7).
   
  Biggest surprise of the evening so far?  The Raytheon 6EW7, which sound open, clear and reasonably balanced on this rectifier with mind boggling bass for a 6EW7 tube.  Every few minutes I have to look at the amp and confirm that, yes those actually are 6EW7s in there producing the thunder I'm hearing.  Control isn't the greatest, but still good, but it hits pretty hard and goes pretty deep.  It completely puts the RCA 6DE7s to shame in everything but tautness, that's for sure.  I'm dropping some 6FD7 in next to see if they outshine the Raytheons or not.


----------



## Skylab

Hmmmmm...might have to look for one. I have a RCA 5R4GY...haven't tried it in the Woo, but I liked it in the Decware CSP-2...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My admiration for the Brimar 5R4GY just continues to grow as I try it with more tubes.  I'm rolling all my 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 with it as a little break from the 6SN7 for fun, and I have to say this is the best any of these tubes have sounded.  I don't make that statement lightly either because I've tried my EML 274B with most of these tubes.  I feel the EML pairs better with the 6SN7 and didn't find much synergy with these tubes, but the Brimar has been enjoyable with every driver tube I've tried (outside of, ironically enough, the Brimar 6SN7).
> 
> Biggest surprise of the evening so far?  The Raytheon 6EW7, which sound open, clear and reasonably balanced on this rectifier with mind boggling bass for a 6EW7 tube.  Every few minutes I have to look at the amp and confirm that, yes those actually are 6EW7s in there producing the thunder I'm hearing.  Control isn't the greatest, but still good, but it hits pretty hard and goes pretty deep.  It completely puts the RCA 6DE7s to shame in everything but tautness, that's for sure.  I'm dropping some 6FD7 in next to see if they outshine the Raytheons or not.


 

 That says a lot about your Brimar! My stock RCA 6EW7's had very little bass and absolutely no authority. I waited. Burned some more... and waited. And I'm a patient cat. I conceded at 400 hours and moved on. Perhaps, 'Miss Sophia' was responsible. From there, I kept hearing bass was to be found in the 6FD7 series. Understanding the chemistry between things, I would never write-off an entire class of tubes. Seems, the 5R4GY restored some luster to the 6EW7's...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hmmmmm...might have to look for one. I have a RCA 5R4GY...haven't tried it in the Woo, but I liked it in the Decware CSP-2...


 

 I have an RCA 5R4GY as well.  The Brimar walks all over it and is worth the higher cost IMO.  There isn't a single thing it doesn't do better.  I used the RCA 5R4GY in my amp for a long time until I bought the EML, it has served me well, but with the Brimar in the picture I can't think of a reason to ever use it again.  I'm considering getting a second Brimar as backup..... for my preferences and headphones it really feels like the right rectifier in the WA6.  Of course the EML still has its place and is my choice for most of the 6SN7s, but if something were to happen to it I wouldn't have to suffer that much.
   
  I did pop my RCA 6FD7 blackplates in after my last post, with great results.  Bass is excellent, and hits with more control and authority than the Raytheons which pack a wallop I'm not used to hearing from them but sound loose while doing so.  The 6FD7 has heavier midbass for sure, creating an overall heavier sound.  Now that I've been away from the 6FD7 this long I'm finding the thick midbass to be a little too much for me now, but with the Brimar it doesn't seem to impact vocal clarity as it did in the past.  They actually felt a bit less dynamic than the Raytheons too, which surprises me. 
   
  These 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 observations I'm posting tonight are a pretty casual affair and should be taken with a grain of salt.  More than anything I'm just rolling them for the enjoyment of it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> All I have for now is a Tung Sol 5u4g.  I really think my 5998's are bad or bordering on bad though, so not sure a different rectifier would make any difference.


 

 Lol that's kind of how I felt about the Sophia until I tried it with the TS (Chatham) 5998s, which I was starting to think were only good for the Sennheisers. It's hard to keep track of what tube works best with what else, as well as for what headphone. I think I need to start a formal record-keeping system or something, especially when I add the HD800 back into the mix or all of this trial and error will be lost.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Lol that's kind of how I felt about the Sophia until I tried it with the TS (Chatham) 5998s, which I was starting to think were only good for the Sennheisers. It's hard to keep track of what tube works best with what else, as well as for what headphone. I think I need to start a formal record-keeping system or something, especially when I add the HD800 back into the mix or all of this trial and error will be lost.


 

 Yes, you should.  You do all the trial and error, then give us your notes! ha!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I have an RCA 5R4GY as well.  The Brimar walks all over it and is worth the higher cost IMO.  There isn't a single thing it doesn't do better.  I used the RCA 5R4GY in my amp for a long time until I bought the EML, it has served me well, but with the Brimar in the picture I can't think of a reason to ever use it again.  I'm considering getting a second Brimar as backup..... for my preferences and headphones it really feels like the right rectifier in the WA6.  Of course the EML still has its place and is my choice for most of the 6SN7s, but if something were to happen to it I wouldn't have to suffer that much.


 

 Any idea where to get a Brimar 5R4GY?  I can only find RCA's for sale. Thanks.


----------



## SpudHarris

I just scored one for £30 including delivery.
   
  Couldn't find them anywhere else to gauge a price, do you want me to ask if he has any more? I don't mind forwarding to you Rob.


----------



## Skylab

Sure, that would be great.  Thanks!


----------



## mikemalter

This tube discussion is so interesting.  Great stuff guys.


----------



## SpudHarris

Haven't forgotten about it, I'm awaiting a reply....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Any idea where to get a Brimar 5R4GY?  I can only find RCA's for sale. Thanks.


 

 Here yah go, Skylab: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tubes/rectifiers/brimar-5r4.html


----------



## shipsupt

mikemalter said:


> This tube discussion is so interesting.  Great stuff guys.




+1
Being a new Woo owner and new to this thread the recent tube impressions have been awesome... Maybe not so good for the old wallet!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Yes, that is a constant refrain here, awesome thread but hard on the wallet.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My admiration for the Brimar 5R4GY just continues to grow as I try it with more tubes.  I'm rolling all my 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 with it as a little break from the 6SN7 for fun, and I have to say this is the best any of these tubes have sounded.  I don't make that statement lightly either because I've tried my EML 274B with most of these tubes.  I feel the EML pairs better with the 6SN7 and didn't find much synergy with these tubes, but the Brimar has been enjoyable with every driver tube I've tried (outside of, ironically enough, the Brimar 6SN7).
> 
> Biggest surprise of the evening so far?  The Raytheon 6EW7, which sound open, clear and reasonably balanced on this rectifier with mind boggling bass for a 6EW7 tube.  Every few minutes I have to look at the amp and confirm that, yes those actually are 6EW7s in there producing the thunder I'm hearing.  Control isn't the greatest, but still good, but it hits pretty hard and goes pretty deep.  It completely puts the RCA 6DE7s to shame in everything but tautness, that's for sure.  I'm dropping some 6FD7 in next to see if they outshine the Raytheons or not.


 


   You are right. I bought mine from Upscaleaudio too and really like them. Right now they are paired with my Mullard ECC32 and really like the sound maybe even more than with my EML due to increased dynamics.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Any idea where to get a Brimar 5R4GY?  I can only find RCA's for sale. Thanks.


 

 I bought mine from Upscale Audio. 
   
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tubes/rectifiers/brimar-5r4.html
   
  edit:  haha, I was beaten.  Should've checked the next page first.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I bought mine from Upscale Audio.
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/tubes/rectifiers/brimar-5r4.html
> 
> edit:  haha, I was beaten.  Should've checked the next page first.


 

 I wonder how many they sold today.  I bought one and got shipping notice within a few hours.  Bet they sold a few.


----------



## Hi-Five

I had a set of Raytheon 6EW7s in when I first got the Woo and I thought they were very good tubes, if not a little light in the low end.  You have me wondering if I need some more burn-in as I didn't really let them bake very long before I started rolling other tubes in.
   
  ..LOL, I thought the same thing, how many Brimar rectifiers were sold at Upscale today!?!?!
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My admiration for the Brimar 5R4GY just continues to grow as I try it with more tubes.  I'm rolling all my 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 with it as a little break from the 6SN7 for fun, and I have to say this is the best any of these tubes have sounded.  I don't make that statement lightly either because I've tried my EML 274B with most of these tubes.  I feel the EML pairs better with the 6SN7 and didn't find much synergy with these tubes, but the Brimar has been enjoyable with every driver tube I've tried (outside of, ironically enough, the Brimar 6SN7).
> 
> Biggest surprise of the evening so far?  The Raytheon 6EW7, which sound open, clear and reasonably balanced on this rectifier with mind boggling bass for a 6EW7 tube.  Every few minutes I have to look at the amp and confirm that, yes those actually are 6EW7s in there producing the thunder I'm hearing.  Control isn't the greatest, but still good, but it hits pretty hard and goes pretty deep.  It completely puts the RCA 6DE7s to shame in everything but tautness, that's for sure.  I'm dropping some 6FD7 in next to see if they outshine the Raytheons or not.


----------



## balderon

Thanks guys. I was happy with my EML 274B. Given the current discussion I am compelled to give the Brimar 5R4GY paired with DuMont 6EW7 and TSRP a try. LOL


----------



## Xcalibur255

From my experience with the Raytheons it is all in the rectifier whether or not they have any presence in the low end.  Their presentation changes a lot from one rectifier to another, more so than the other tubes I've tried, and they sound outright bad with the wrong rectifier too.  Mine are not American made (Japan) so I can't say if my tubes are typical of Raytheons 6EW7s in general.
   
  Finishing up my driver tube fun tonight, the Brimar 5R4GY officially sounds good with all of them.  My last pair to try was a set of GE 6FD7 greyplates I once thought about throwing away because I was so unimpressed with them.  They sound nice with the Brimar, with none of the harsh midrange glare or bass bloat I heard from them in the past.  In fact I find their current sound to be strikingly linear and free of coloration, to the point of almost being boring because there is no midrange bloom like with most other tubes I've experienced.  The other set of tubes I rolled were Zenith 6FD7s which are re-branded RCAs.  This pair is from 71 where as my blackplate RCAs are an early 6FD7 tube from around 1960.  Having both really highlights how different the earlier design dual blackplate tubes sound compared to the later ones which are black/grey plate.  The Zenith is mediocre sounding all around (the Brimar makes the best of them, but just has nothing to work with IMO), with far too much midbass and an upper mid bump which makes it sound "fun" in a way that isn't for most hifi aficionados.  They don't have the clarity of the older tubes and I had to force myself to listen to them the entire time.  It's really a shame this is the only kind of RCA 6FD7 a person can find anymore.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





balderon said:


> Thanks guys. I was happy with my EML 274B. Given the current discussion I am compelled to give the Brimar 5R4GY paired with DuMont 6EW7 and TSRP a try. LOL


 


  If you bring the TSRP into the picture, I feel the EML is the superior tube without question.  The inner resolution and control is definitely better, as is imaging.  I just feel the Brimar has great synergy with the WA6 and the 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 in general.  My enthusiasm for it comes mainly from the fact that it's affordable ($50 from Upscale) and the fact that, in my opinion and experience, it produces a better overall sound with the aforementioned tubes than the EML does.  I think the Brimar sounds nice with 6SN7 tubes too, but the EML is better.  Also, just becaue I didn't prefer the sound of the EML with the 6FD7 (I recall liking the 6EW7 with it at least) doesn't mean somebody else wouldn't find it a great match.  The EML just seemed to highlight negative qualities in those tubes, making it clear the areas where they lacked refinement compared to the 6SN7.  The Brimar, on the other hand, seems to make the 6FD7 in particular sound more refined, especially in the treble and has an overall feeling of balance..... of everything handled equally well that makes it easy to just settle down and enjoy the music.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are those the 6F8G tubes or something, before the GT style chassis for 6SN7 tubes? Don't forget to update us after you've had them on simmer...


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm surprised I recalled what they were, as sleepy as I've gotten after 0300 hrs. Your tubes look at once glorious and menacing... I want a pair! How much for you to bring 'em home?


 
   

 The 6F8G's arrived quickly, same day as Glenn's adapters. They were just wrapped in the fiberglass blankets pictured, but it was a good fit in the small priority shipping box. Not too tight, or loose enough to slide around which was a good thing because there was no additional protection like bubble wrap or peanuts or crumpled paper. I'm just glad the box never had anything heavy stacked on it...
   
  Glenn is a great asset on Head-fi as well as eBay, he knew to orient the wires properly away from the rectifier on my WA22. While the tubes themselves could have benefited from the kind of packing that his adapters enjoyed, they arrived safely and right on time. As I also got $50 off with the "make an offer" feature I have no complaints; the tubes and adapters together came in at just under three bill$ shipped.
   

   

   

   
  As far as sound goes, let's just say that I have no regrets at all regarding the acquisition of these tubes. Without doing any direct comparison yet I would have to say that they don't take a back seat to either mica version of the TSRP 6SN7GT. They certainly add another dimension to the combo I dropped them into, specifically adding depth to the soundstage, timbre to acoustic instruments and presence to vocals. Much like with the TSRP's there is greater refinement overall, and the sense of physical space has opened up.
   
  With Glenn's adapters and their svelte hourglass figure they look great to boot.
   

   
  I'll post some photos of the actual 6F8Gs in action as well as some commentary regarding combinations and comparisons soon


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The 6F8G's arrived quickly, same day as Glenn's adapters. They were just wrapped in the fiberglass blankets pictured, but it was a good fit in the small priority shipping box. Not too tight, or loose enough to slide around which was a good thing because there was no additional protection like bubble wrap or peanuts or crumpled paper. I'm just glad the box never had anything heavy stacked on it...
> 
> Glenn is a great asset on Head-fi as well as eBay, he knew to orient the wires properly away from the rectifier on my WA22. While the tubes themselves could have benefited from the kind of packing that his adapters enjoyed, they arrived safely and right on time. As I also got $50 off with the "make an offer" feature I have no complaints; the tubes and adapters together came in at just under three bill$ shipped.
> 
> ...


 

 I'd be interested in your impressions of these tubes, Grokit.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you bring the TSRP into the picture, I feel the EML is the superior tube without question.  The inner resolution and control is definitely better, as is imaging.  I just feel the Brimar has great synergy with the WA6 and the 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 in general.  My enthusiasm for it comes mainly from the fact that it's affordable ($50 from Upscale) and the fact that, in my opinion and experience, it produces a better overall sound with the aforementioned tubes than the EML does.  I think the Brimar sounds nice with 6SN7 tubes too, but the EML is better.  Also, just becaue I didn't prefer the sound of the EML with the 6FD7 (I recall liking the 6EW7 with it at least) doesn't mean somebody else wouldn't find it a great match.  The EML just seemed to highlight negative qualities in those tubes, making it clear the areas where they lacked refinement compared to the 6SN7.  The Brimar, on the other hand, seems to make the 6FD7 in particular sound more refined, especially in the treble and has an overall feeling of balance..... of everything handled equally well that makes it easy to just settle down and enjoy the music.


 
   
  I appreciate your impressions Xcalibur255. The only other rectifier I have other than stock is the princess. Much of the time it's a tad bit bright especially for HD-800's. For the majority of the time I use 6EW7's to play background music while surfing the net. I change over to the EML / TSRP for when I close my eyes and turn off the lights for critical listening sessions. I hope the Brimar helps close the gap between the two setups.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The 6F8G's arrived quickly, same day as Glenn's adapters. They were just wrapped in the fiberglass blankets pictured, but it was a good fit in the small priority shipping box. Not too tight, or loose enough to slide around which was a good thing because there was no additional protection like bubble wrap or peanuts or crumpled paper. I'm just glad the box never had anything heavy stacked on it...
> 
> Glenn is a great asset on Head-fi as well as eBay, he knew to orient the wires properly away from the rectifier on my WA22. While the tubes themselves could have benefited from the kind of packing that his adapters enjoyed, they arrived safely and right on time. As I also got $50 off with the "make an offer" feature I have no complaints; the tubes and adapters together came in at just under three bill$ shipped.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Good thing this isn't a work night or school night. _ Way too much excitement before midnight_... I'd never get to sleep! You did well, grokit. Over the coming days I will try to be a model Woo owner and patiently await your _experience_. I really enjoy dealing with and learning from Glenn. He seems a true hobbyist and music lover at heart.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





balderon said:


> I appreciate your impressions Xcalibur255. The only other rectifier I have other than stock is the princess. Much of the time it's a tad bit bright especially for HD-800's. For the majority of the time I use 6EW7's to play background music while surfing the net. I change over to the EML / TSRP for when I close my eyes and turn off the lights for critical listening sessions. I hope the Brimar helps close the gap between the two setups.


 


  Like the way you stage your segmented sessions and make the good stuff count... _and last!_


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the Brimar 5R4GY info, guys.  I ordered one


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The 6F8G's arrived quickly, same day as Glenn's adapters. They were just wrapped in the fiberglass blankets pictured, but it was a good fit in the small priority shipping box. Not too tight, or loose enough to slide around which was a good thing because there was no additional protection like bubble wrap or peanuts or crumpled paper. I'm just glad the box never had anything heavy stacked on it...
> 
> Glenn is a great asset on Head-fi as well as eBay, he knew to orient the wires properly away from the rectifier on my WA22. While the tubes themselves could have benefited from the kind of packing that his adapters enjoyed, they arrived safely and right on time. As I also got $50 off with the "make an offer" feature I have no complaints; the tubes and adapters together came in at just under three bill$ shipped.
> 
> ...


 

 I hope you hate these and consider them a complete waste of money!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   At least my wallet does.


----------



## balderon

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks for the Brimar 5R4GY info, guys.  I ordered one


 
   
  Unfortunately, for me, you may of got the last one. I ordered one yesterday and today I received an email with the dreaded out of stock apology. Waaaa


----------



## grokit

Yeah I'm glad they're out of stock now as well, I need another rectifier like I need another hole in my head. They do sound interesting though...


----------



## mikemalter

Me too!
   
  Still fiddling with my PWD and media server.  Breaking in the bridge is a bear.  New P5 to be here next Wed.  Maybe that will help.


----------



## Skylab

balderon said:


> Unfortunately, for me, you may of got the last one. I ordered one yesterday and today I received an email with the dreaded out of stock apology. Waaaa




Actually same thing ended up happening to me! They refunded my Paypal and emailed me that they are out of stock. so I am still looking


----------



## musicman59

Guys,
  I am selling a few if my pair of driver tubes in my collection. You can see them here.
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545103/driver-tubes-for-sale-6sn7gt-5692-and-cv181z#post_7349388


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's a shame about the Brimar, I was looking forward to finding out if everybody else's ears agreed with mine.  Needless to say I no longer have to ponder whether to order a backup.  They seem to go for more money on eBay than the $50 Upscale was asking.  Their price seemed suspiciously good at first, in fact many of their tubes prices seem very fair.  Perusing their 6SN7 list they have some tubes listed in there that frequently go for more on eBay, assuming you stick with the "driver" grade which is good enough for the Woo amps.


----------



## Wedge

Well, I got to meet Jack today at the NYC meet, it was certainly a pleasure.  I have been toiling over whether or not to buy the WA-22, we got to talking about amplifiers and he kind of tempted me with the idea of a customized WA-22 using KT-88s.  I had told him that I really love KT-88s, but I'm wondering anybody have any thoughts on this, I would be using LCD-2s, HD650s, and eventually ed.10s.  Haven't discussed how he would run them yet, but wondering if anyone had any thoughts here, good idea, bad idea?
   
  I know a little off topic, but here are my thoughts, using KT-88s in any mode would provide more juice than 7236 or 5998s (for those difficult to drive headphones like HE-6, which I'm definitely very interested in), there are lots of KT-88 choices out there, including new production like EAT, and seemingly lots of NOS choices.  I still get to use one of my favorite drive tubes which I have quite a few of the 6SN7, and I get to use a bunch of my KT-88s that I have in my closet.  Downside, is it costs more, KT-88s cost more, and I haven't seen many people here commission Woo to do a custom amplifier, which is a more major than some caps, so I'd be treading into unknown territory, or maybe not.


----------



## grokit

It sounds like the WA22 to rule them all


----------



## Skylab

The KT-88 is a powerful tube for sure, but an amp using KT-88/6550's is a VERY different beast from one using a dual-triode like the 6AS7G.


----------



## Xcalibur255

There really must have been something going on with my ears the night I was complaining about bass extension on the 6FD7 tubes.  They definitely have the best bass of all the drop-in tubes, but for some reason I felt like there was no energy below 80hz the last time I compared them a month or so ago.  That certainly isn't a problem tonight or the last few nights in general, although I still feel the 6SN7 really improves in this area (amongst others).  The bass isn't more propulsive, it just reaches deeper from what I'm perceiving.  Just goes to show how much impressions can change from one listening session to another.
   
  The Brimar 5R4GY and RCA 6FD7 blackplates make for the nicest tube combo I've heard in my amp without resorting to socket adapters.  The RCAs possess a dimensionality to the way they image that the other 6DE7/6EW7/6FD7 tubes don't.  I was drawn to it the very first time I heard them, and the Brimar draws this quality out in them nicely.  It can't touch the transparency or overall resolution of, say, the EML 274B and TSRPs together, but it is an enjoyable listen in its own right.  These RCAs actually remind me of the TSRP presentation as far as imaging is concerned.  Both impart a sense of layered 3D space that not all tubes can recreate.  The TSRP does it better of course, but it is a compliment towards the RCA 6FD7s nevertheless.


----------



## sphinxvc

I heard the WA22 and the WA6 SE with my K701s today at the NY head-fi meet and I was floored.  I feel like both amps corrected the midrange thinness I seem to suffer with my K701s on my SS gear.  Another effect I found was that I was wearing a bubble of sound over my head, the soundstage was fantastic, this is my first encounter with tubes by the way.  I felt like the WA6 SE, in comparison to the WA22, was more syrupy, lush and smooth.  The soundstage was also haunting on the WA6 SE.  I've heard great things about the Ming Da headamp with the K701s as well.  What I'd like to do is transform my current rig into a K701 rig using tubes.  At the moment I can afford a WA6 but not a SE, what is the margin of difference on these two amps for cans like the 701s? If it's worth it, I wouldn't mind saving up for the SE but then I'd have the choice of buying the WA2 as well.  Attending the meet has given me a real appreciation for synergy between components, is this magic with the K701s exclusive to Woo headamps or should I be looking at other brands and models as well?  By the way, I do plan to stay single ended for now.  
   
  And one more thing, any one know where Woo Audio is located in NY, are they open to letting people demo their gear before purchase?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> I heard the WA22 and the WA6 SE with my K701s today at the NY head-fi meet and I was floored.  I feel like both amps corrected the midrange thinness I seem to suffer with my K701s on my SS gear.  Another effect I found was that I was wearing a bubble of sound over my head, the soundstage was fantastic, this is my first encounter with tubes by the way.  I felt like the WA6 SE, in comparison to the WA22, was more syrupy, lush and smooth.  The soundstage was also haunting on the WA6 SE.  I've heard great things about the Ming Da headamp with the K701s as well.  What I'd like to do is transform my current rig into a K701 rig using tubes.  At the moment I can afford a WA6 but not a SE, what is the margin of difference on these two amps for cans like the 701s? If it's worth it, I wouldn't mind saving up for the SE but then I'd have the choice of buying the WA2 as well.  Attending the meet has given me a real appreciation for synergy between components, is this magic with the K701s exclusive to Woo headamps or should I be looking at other brands and models as well?  By the way, I do plan to stay single ended for now.
> 
> And one more thing, any one know where Woo Audio is located in NY, are they open to letting people demo their gear before purchase?


 

 imo what you are hearing is the Woo sound signature. I own both the WA6SE max and the WA5LE max++. Yes the WA5LE blows away my WA6SE but they both have the same sound signature.
   
  Go to Woo Audio web site and E-Mail Jack, tell him what you want to do. Great Guy..


----------



## sphinxvc

^ I did feel the WA22 "blew the WA6SE out of the water" as well in terms of detail and resolution but I think I will hold off on an investment like that till I have some higher end transducers.


----------



## brasewel

The WA22 is by far the best tube amp I have ever heard. They paired well with just about any headphone (albeit the HD650). It tied with the new upcoming Red Wine Isabellina amp as the best sounding amp at the meet; atleast in my opinion and a couple others. I was amazed at how good my LAs sounded since I was always under the impression that they sounded best through solid-state. Barring major financial loss, I am definitely getting the WA22 as my next amp


----------



## Aris488

Hi,
   
  I have a 6 (sylvania - Tung sol) and plan to upgrade to a 2. Ist it worth?
   
  I'm very pleased with the 6 - enough power for my SennHD650 not passing 11 on volume pot.
   
  I've owned a Ming DA 87 C , sound was more tubey. Is the 2 more on the tubey side?
   
  Thanks.
   
  Chris.


----------



## musicman59

Here is my new "weapons" case.


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





aris488 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a 6 (sylvania - Tung sol) and plan to upgrade to a 2. Ist it worth?
> 
> ...


 

 While I have not heard a 6 (I own a WA2), the consensus (and it is also Jack's opinion) is that the WA2 is a lusher, more classical tube-like amp than the WA6 (especially the WA6SE). While I think that is a good thing, and thus a WA2 would be an upgrade, YMMV. It is also debatable whether a WA2 would be an upgrade if your primary weapons are low impedance headphones (Grados, Denons, etc). I am pretty confident the WA2 would be the preferred solution for high impedance phones.
   
  Of course all of this is highly dependent on tubes.


----------



## flaming_june

For WA6 vs 6SE, just do a search in the amp forum and you will find many threads with great impressions on each.  As for going to Wooaudio in NY, from what I read he's located in Queens but walkins aren't allowed. 
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> I heard the WA22 and the WA6 SE with my K701s today at the NY head-fi meet and I was floored.  I feel like both amps corrected the midrange thinness I seem to suffer with my K701s on my SS gear.  Another effect I found was that I was wearing a bubble of sound over my head, the soundstage was fantastic, this is my first encounter with tubes by the way.  I felt like the WA6 SE, in comparison to the WA22, was more syrupy, lush and smooth.  The soundstage was also haunting on the WA6 SE.  I've heard great things about the Ming Da headamp with the K701s as well.  What I'd like to do is transform my current rig into a K701 rig using tubes.  At the moment I can afford a WA6 but not a SE, what is the margin of difference on these two amps for cans like the 701s? If it's worth it, I wouldn't mind saving up for the SE but then I'd have the choice of buying the WA2 as well.  Attending the meet has given me a real appreciation for synergy between components, is this magic with the K701s exclusive to Woo headamps or should I be looking at other brands and models as well?  By the way, I do plan to stay single ended for now.
> 
> And one more thing, any one know where Woo Audio is located in NY, are they open to letting people demo their gear before purchase?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


flaming_june said:


> For WA6 vs 6SE, just do a search in the amp forum and you will find many threads with great impressions on each.  As for going to Wooaudio in NY, from what I read he's located in Queens but walkins aren't allowed.


 

 That's a shame, I live in Queens.  Anyway, I sent Jack an email yesterday, let's see what he says.


----------



## emremusic

especially the wa6se 
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> For WA6 vs 6SE, just do a search in the amp forum and you will find many threads with great impressions on each.  As for going to Wooaudio in NY, from what I read he's located in Queens but walkins aren't allowed.


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> imo what you are hearing is the Woo sound signature. I own both the WA6SE max and the WA5LE max++. Yes the WA5LE blows away my WA6SE but they both have the same sound signature.
> 
> Go to Woo Audio web site and E-Mail Jack, tell him what you want to do. Great Guy..


 


  I was curious, if you have wa5le, and its that much better than 6se, then how come you are still keeping the 6se? Why still keep the two amps eventhough they have the same sound signature?


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I was curious, if you have wa5le, and its that much better than 6se, then how come you are still keeping the 6se? Why still keep the two amps eventhough they have the same sound signature?


 

 He might have a desire for 2 rigs?  I just bought a WA-5 not long ago, but I am still looking for a few other amps for different purposes/rooms.  Sound signature and amps sounding the same are slightly different.  The two amps also carry two different types of tubes so it is possible to pull the amps far away from each in terms of sound, in my opinion.


----------



## Aris488

Thank you for your answer Khollister.
   
  I think i'll sale my 6 for a 2 in a near future.  i love a more tubey sound.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> The WA22 is by far the best tube amp I have ever heard. They paired well with just about any headphone (albeit the HD650). It tied with the new upcoming Red Wine Isabellina amp as the best sounding amp at the meet; atleast in my opinion and a couple others. I was amazed at how good my LAs sounded since I was always under the impression that they sounded best through solid-state. Barring major financial loss, I am definitely getting the WA22 as my next amp


 


 Brasewel, nice to hear your impressions.....
   
  I'm just curious, what was connected to the WA22 to make is sound so good? Thanks.


----------



## grokit

I'm listening to an HD600 balanced out of the WA22 and I 've never heard them sound so good. The 600 seems to favor the same tube setup as the LCD-2, which can be very different than what the HD800 seems to want. The WA22 will adjust its character with the tubes that are put into it.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


golfnutz said:


> Brasewel, nice to hear your impressions.....
> 
> I'm just curious, what was connected to the WA22 to make is sound so good? Thanks.


 

 It was this gorgeous CD transport.  I thought it was Woo Audio also.  I could have sworn it said Woo Audio on it but when I tried to find it on their site I couldn't.  I don't think they make transports.  The only thing I know about it is that it costs about $2K+


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> It was this gorgeous CD transport.  I thought it was Woo Audio also.  I could have sworn it said Woo Audio on it but when I tried to find it on their site I couldn't.  I don't think they make transports.  The only thing I know about it is that it costs about $2K+


 

 Jack, eluded to me that they were working on several new products.  One of which might be a DAC and Transport.  I don't believe the one there was there own build but it may have been.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Jack, eluded to me that they were working on several new products.  One of which might be a DAC and Transport.  I don't believe the one there was there own build but it may have been.


 


   
  It could be the one I saw in the last CanJam. It is Chinese made call Amadeus Original 10th Anniversary.
  I think this is the one you are talking about.
   
  http://www.cattylink.com/page294.html


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> The WA22 is by far the best tube amp I have ever heard. They paired well with just about any headphone (albeit the HD650). It tied with the new upcoming Red Wine Isabellina amp as the best sounding amp at the meet; atleast in my opinion and a couple others. I was amazed at how good my LAs sounded since I was always under the impression that they sounded best through solid-state. Barring major financial loss, I am definitely getting the WA22 as my next amp


 
  I've got a WA22 and I share your sentiments.  I have been nothing but pleased with it.  I really like that it responds readily to changes in tubes.  While I have never tried an unbalanced source for the amp, I've heard that it's best if you feed it from a balanced source.  Also, it can handle the best headphones out there and because it responds so well to tube changes, you can tune it so to speak to play to the best that your selected headphone has to offer.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Here is my new "weapons" case.


 

 I want one!


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


musicman59 said:


> It could be the one I saw in the last CanJam. It is Chinese made call Amadeus Original 10th Anniversary.
> I think this is the one you are talking about.
> 
> http://www.cattylink.com/page294.html


 

 No, that wasn't it.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> No, that wasn't it.


 

 It was this one.
   
http://www.cattylink.com/page361.html


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> It was this gorgeous CD transport.  I thought it was Woo Audio also.  I could have sworn it said Woo Audio on it but when I tried to find it on their site I couldn't.  I don't think they make transports.  The only thing I know about it is that it costs about $2K+


 
   
  It was not WooAudio...I can't seem to remember the name but someone there told me it cost $1500 if I remember correctly. And yes Wedge has the right model posted


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I've got a WA22 and I share your sentiments.  I have been nothing but pleased with it.  I really like that it responds readily to changes in tubes.  While I have never tried an unbalanced source for the amp, I've heard that it's best if you feed it from a balanced source.  Also, it can handle the best headphones out there and because it responds so well to tube changes, you can tune it so to speak to play to the best that your selected headphone has to offer.


 

 Mike have you upgraded all your tubes? I personally feel the cost to upgrade the tubes is worth it considering how the amp sounds.


----------



## Golfnutz

Interesting he didn't have an external DAC connected. I'll be going the same route with an OPPO BDP-95 (| wonder how these two CD players would compare as they're very close in price). Do you guy's remember which tubes they were using?


----------



## brasewel

All stock with the exception of the Rectifier which was upgraded to Sophia 274B


----------



## Wedge

If your talking about the WA-22 at the show, it was an EML 5U4G Mesh.
   
  Quote: 





brasewel said:


> All stock with the exception of the Rectifier which was upgraded to Sophia 274B


----------



## brasewel

Oh really...did not know that. My bad


----------



## Icenine2

........................Tube Cube.........................................I'm going to see if they make a mini version.  Nice...........
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Here is my new "weapons" case.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> ........................Tube Cube.........................................I'm going to see if they make a mini version.  Nice...........


 

 They have a smaller version, I have one.


----------



## Icenine2

Interesting info on Power Cords from the 6 Moons site.  Defends our audiophile nature against those accusing us of Snake Oil Addiction!  http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/motek/1.html


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


wedge said:


> It was this one.
> 
> http://www.cattylink.com/page361.html


 

 Yeah, that's the one.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yeah, that's the one.


 

http://www.cattylink.com/page361.html
   
  I live in 110V, 120V territory and its website states: Voltage Standard Available: 220V, 230V. Maybe that's a good thing.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





wedge said:


> It was this one.
> 
> http://www.cattylink.com/page361.html


 

 Jack also had that one in CanJam. It is not a transport. it is a full blown CD player tube based from the same company of the Dac/Transport combo I posted the link for. The CD player is is th emodel CD-9iiT and reatial for $1,499. The combo is the Amadeus 10th anniversary edition and retails for $2,499.
   
  I tried both and they are very nice.


----------



## jdmeyers

Thinking about joining the Woo family!


----------



## Caphead78

I just acquired a bunch of old rectifier tubes and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about them.
  The most interesting (at first glance anyway) is a USAF labeled RCA 5U4G (Not GB). I also have one Raytheon, one Tung-Sol, and two Westinghouse 5U4GB tubes. Anyone know if any of these worth my attention?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





caphead78 said:


> I just acquired a bunch of old rectifier tubes and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about them.
> The most interesting (at first glance anyway) is a USAF labeled RCA 5U4G (Not GB). I also have one Raytheon, one Tung-Sol, and two Westinghouse 5U4GB tubes. Anyone know if any of these worth my attention?


 
  The RCA 5U4G tube should be an ST-shaped tube or coke bottle tube. The GA and GB tubes are straight-bottle tubes. I have been read that RCA made a lot of the 5U4G tubes for other brands as well. This is what AudioTubes.com says about the RCA 5U4G: _This is the classic coke bottle shape (ST) rectifier tube. Great RCA tube, considered the best ever made of the "G" or ST shape 5U4 tubes, just recently has become very difficult to find and keep in stock. _You can find out more about the 5U4G/GA/GB tubes at AudioTubes.com. Brent Jessee really knows his tubes.


----------



## Caphead78

Ahh thanks. I'll give that a bit of time in my WA6 and see how I like it. Cheers
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The RCA 5U4G tube should be an ST-shaped tube or coke bottle tube. The GA and GB tubes are straight-bottle tubes. I have been told that most 5U4G tubes were manufactured by RCA. This is what AudioTubes.com says about the RCA 5U4G: _This is the classic coke bottle shape (ST) rectifier tube. Great RCA tube, considered the best ever made of the "G" or ST shape 5U4 tubes, just recently has become very difficult to find and keep in stock. _You can find out more about the 5U4G/GA/GB tubes at AudioTubes.com. Brent Jessee really knows his tubes.


----------



## khollister

Quote: 





wedge said:


> They have a smaller version, I have one.


 

 That's just a Pelican case with their logo silkscreened on the top. Based on a really quick search, it appears to be a Pelican 1550 - $128 at B&H Photo.


----------



## Wedge

The one I have is I believe the equivalent to the 1300 series, which runs around 40-45, I paid about $50 for it, since I bought some tube I didn't really mind the extra money.
  Quote: 





khollister said:


> That's just a Pelican case with their logo silkscreened on the top. Based on a really quick search, it appears to be a Pelican 1550 - $128 at B&H Photo.


----------



## leesure

Visited Jack and his father at the NYC meet on Saturday.  Got to hear my LCD-2's (as well as the HE-6's) through the WA5 and the WA22.  Also had my WA6SE there and my very recently purchased Schiit Lyr.  This was Jack's 1st chance to listen to the Lyr...he preferred the Woo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Based on limited listening in a room of people, the WA5 didn't blow me away with the LCD's...but the WA22 through the 4-pin balanced connection was *STUNNING*.  Rich & lush yet fast & detailed.  Great dynamic punch.  Wider soundstage than my 6SE delivers.  *The LCD-2's through the WA22 was a strong contender for best sound in the show IMO.  *
   
  It has the lush sound I've been missing from my WA6SE.  Jack thinks I can get it closer with the Sophia rectifier...may have to try that in the coming weeks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Visited Jack and his father at the NYC meet on Saturday.  Got to hear my LCD-2's (as well as the HE-6's) through the WA5 and the WA22.  Also had my WA6SE there and my very recently purchased Schiit Lyr.  This was Jack's 1st chance to listen to the Lyr...he preferred the Woo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for your impressions of the LCD-2.  I am thinking of getting a pair of these.  Was it easy to get a cable with the 4 pin balanced connection?  What cable and connection are you using?


----------



## leesure

Some photos from the show...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Some photos from the show...


 

  
  Thanks to your incredible photography, I can start visualizing a new spot in my listening room for that drop-dead gorgeous black WA22!


----------



## Caphead78

I'm a little surprised that the amps were shown off with stock tubes. I really don't like that Shuguang rectifier in my WA6


----------



## leesure

You mean the one in the WA6SE? That was my setup, not Woo's.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks to your incredible photography, I can start visualizing a new spot in my listening room for that drop-dead gorgeous black WA22!


 

 That shade of black is actually called, "Dust Magnet."  It is a special shade of black.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> That shade of black is actually called, "Dust Magnet."  It is a special shade of black.


 

 "Dust Magnet"... _I'm with you!          _
   
  Ahhhh, but once I treat my black WA6SE (hit it with the micro-fiber cloth), I'm rewarded. Well, short-term anyway... but ain't nuthin' else like black when the object of desire has the right lines; shape!


----------



## brasewel

So does the WA22 convert an unbalanced source signal to a balanced one or do you need a balanced dac to have a truly balanced setup?


----------



## Silent One

Matched pair NOS GE 6SN7GTA - 1953
   
  $55 shipped (Paypal - CONUSA), priced to move! Will list in forum tonight. Received new from Woo Audio on 10 September 2010 ($80). Has precisely 51 hours total.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> So does the WA22 convert an unbalanced source signal to a balanced one or do you need a balanced dac to have a truly balanced setup?


 

 It is my understanding you need a truly balanced DAC, however there is a lot of interpertation about what truly balanced means.  What DAC do you have?


----------



## brasewel

I have the Meier Audio Stagedac and was thinking of selling my concerto and getting the WA22.


----------



## BrucYSN

Has anyone used WA6SE as a pre-amp?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Matched pair NOS GE 6SN7GTA - 1953
> 
> $55 shipped (Paypal - CONUSA), priced to move! Will list in forum tonight. Received new from Woo Audio on 10 September 2010 ($80). Has precisely 51 hours total.


 

 Nice tubes, pretty sure they are the same as my Zeniths. If so I had good luck with the Princess/TS 5998 combo but that was with a WA22. Let us know what you come up with for your 6SE.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> I have the Meier Audio Stagedac and was thinking of selling my concerto and getting the WA22.


 

  
  It's my understanding, and someone please jump in here if I am wrong about this, that if you don't have a balanced DAC then the WA 6SE would be a good choice. The DAC I was using at the time I got interested in Woo, was a PS Audio DLIII and it had balanced outputs.    I have not heard the 6, but there are people on here who have one, and really love it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> It's my understanding, and someone please jump in here if I am wrong about this, that if you don't have a balanced DAC then the WA 6SE would be a good choice. The DAC I was using at the time I got interested in Woo, was a PS Audio DLIII and it had balanced outputs.    I have not heard the 6, but there are people on here who have one, and really love it.


 

 Your understanding is correct. There's magic to be had with balanced input, otherwise one is not taking full advantage of what the '22' can offer. And those additional $$$ can be redirected elsewhere in the system by getting a 6SE. But then... it's nice having things, so if you got it or can get it, _play it! _


----------



## brasewel

I got to hear Leesure's WA 6SE at the meet and there is no comparison between the two amps. The difference is quite startling to be honest. Getting a balanced dac along with this amp is really pushing it out of my budget.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice tubes, pretty sure they are the same as my Zeniths. If so I had good luck with the Princess/TS 5998 combo but that was with a WA22. Let us know what you come up with for your 6SE.


 

 They are nice. However, now they are back-ups. Now running Raytheon USN-CRP-6SN7W - 1949 tubes paired with the EML 5U4G Mesh and _love 'em!_ I need the cash from the GE's for another type of purchase for my listening room. Recently took my 48" Black light out of storage - seeking to buy a few vintage black light posters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> I got to hear Leesure's WA 6SE at the meet and there is no comparison between the two amps. The difference is quite startling to be honest. Getting a balanced dac along with this amp is really pushing it out of my budget.


 

 What's holding me back (temporarily) is being able to fund the difference between the sale of my 6SE and purchase of a new WA22. But without additional $$$ for Balanced DAC & Balanced headphones , where would it get me? I'm considering other upgrade paths meanwhile. Currently lusting after the Korg MR1000...


----------



## brasewel

I'm thinking of taking the plunge and getting Vinnie's new upcoming balanced Isabellina amp/dac for $2500 instead. The amp is as good if not better than the Woo and the upgrade would be cheaper considering I don't need to get a balanced dac. I do have balanced headphones so I'm covered there


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


leesure said:


> Based on limited listening in a room of people, the WA5 didn't blow me away with the LCD's...but the WA22 through the 4-pin balanced connection was *STUNNING*.  Rich & lush yet fast & detailed.  Great dynamic punch.  Wider soundstage than my 6SE delivers.  *The LCD-2's through the WA22 was a strong contender for best sound in the show IMO. *


 

 Almost every can plugged into the WA22 was phenomenal, it squeezed almost every last drop out of every can.  I really regret not being able to demo the R10s with the 22, I've a feeling that would have been special.  
   
  I too agree that the WA5 underwhelmed next to the 22.


----------



## grokit

As far as Balanced DAC's go the Matrix Mini-i is quite good for the $ and improves further with the Bravo. Upgrading the DAC on my WA22 rig never comes up for some odd reason.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> As far as Balanced DAC's go the Matrix Mini-i is quite good for the $ and improves further with the Bravo. Upgrading the DAC on my WA22 rig never comes up for some odd reason.


 


  If I had three questions:
   
  Does it use a proprietary driver?
  Will it boot into the 64-bit kernel & extensions on OS X with said driver recognized?
  Can 192kHz be reached via S/PDIF Optical on OS X?
   
  Trying to get a closer look... thanks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Visited Jack and his father at the NYC meet on Saturday.  Got to hear my LCD-2's (as well as the HE-6's) through the WA5 and the WA22.  Also had my WA6SE there and my very recently purchased Schiit Lyr.  This was Jack's 1st chance to listen to the Lyr...he preferred the Woo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I really enjoyed reading your impressions leesure.  This will make the wait that much harder.  I'm starting to become tempted to sell things to get there faster.
   
  If you like lush but still detailed I would recommend an EML rectifier over the Sophia personally, the princess will steer you away from that sound towards a more solid state sound signature IMO.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What's holding me back (temporarily) is being able to fund the difference between the sale of my 6SE and purchase of a new WA22. But without additional $$$ for Balanced DAC & Balanced headphones , where would it get me? I'm considering other upgrade paths meanwhile. Currently lusting after the Korg MR1000...


 
   
  Based on my understanding, having the balanced source is most important, more so than having balanced headphones.  So one could take it once step at a time, ending with balancing their cans.  Luckily for me the DAC I already own is capable of being run fully balanced.  I had little appreciation for the feature at the time, but now I'm excited at my coincidental inclusion of the feature when I bought it.  Even without a balanced source it isn't a waste to go with the WA22 over the WA6SE if you ask me.  You are still getting the benefits of higher quality parts and separate input drivers and power tubes, you just lose out on the benefits of the balanced topology when operating as single ended.
   
  My problem is purely one of cash flow sadly, having been forced into a much lower paying job a while back.  Most of you guys who are also talking about upgrading will probably reach that goal before I will.  I was close until replacing my computer suddenly became a very big priority just recently, so now I'll be lucky to hit my goal by end of year.  I had my custom parts picked out already and everything.  Ah, but it will be that much better after the wait I'm sure.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Based on my understanding, having the balanced source is most important, more so than having balanced headphones.  So one could take it once step at a time, ending with balancing their cans.  Luckily for me the DAC I already own is capable of being run fully balanced.  I had little appreciation for the feature at the time, but now I'm excited at my coincidental inclusion of the feature when I bought it.  Even without a balanced source it isn't a waste to go with the WA22 over the WA6SE if you ask me.  You are still getting the benefits of higher quality parts and separate input drivers and power tubes, you just lose out on the benefits of the balanced topology when operating as single ended.
> 
> My problem is purely one of cash flow sadly, having been forced into a much lower paying job a while back.  Most of you guys who are also talking about upgrading will probably reach that goal before I will.  I was close until replacing my computer suddenly became a very big priority just recently, so now I'll be lucky to hit my goal by end of year.  I had my custom parts picked out already and everything.  Ah, but it will be that much better after the wait I'm sure.


 

 While our tea bowls may differ, it seems we are drinking the same tea at this time. Within nine months time, the firm I worked at was bought out and employees sent _firmly_ packing. And shuttered my own boutique business due to poor health. Fast forward a few years with full health and Silent One is making noise again, just not making money... yet!




   
  All of my audio purchases must remain small, intermittent and discrete for now. My list of upgrades is one of length and patience. But I also try to get the most immediate _I wanna hear it now_ bang for my buck. My other options I can buy outright. Later on, funds permitting, will do the same with the '22' - the unit and all/most of the supporting cast.
   
  For me, it's simply a matter of timeline. Rather than decide among four upgrades for the year, which one or two to get. I just take the timeline out further, say, 18 months and do all four upgrades. You know how we addicts think. We're a scheming & dreaming bunch if you ask me - "If I could just Buy/Sell the _______ then I could _____ and ______ and have ________ by ________." And that's only our first thought, mind you!
   
  Because music provides us with so much, all of our audio spending is _justified. (previous comment should be taken with a grain of salt, as it came from a single-man not yet married)_


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I had three questions:
> 
> Does it use a proprietary driver?
> Will it boot into the 64-bit kernel & extensions on OS X with said driver recognized?
> ...


 

 Sorry but I am a 16/44.1 guy so I all I know is the Matrix goes up to 192kHz through s/pdif so probably optical is included, I think USB may be limited to 16/48 though. I was pleased that I went from 48kHz to actual 44.1 on my lossless redbook rips when I went through the Bravo to coax so I guess my priorities are different. It's a smooth solid state signature that meshes well with the Woo and features multiple inputs, balanced outs and is switchable from headphone amp to DAC modes. In the price category of the DACmagic I think it holds up well from a sound standpoint.
   
  I don't use it on my 64-bit Mac so I don't know about that either but I do know that there are no drivers necessary for USB; it sounds best in s/pdif mode though. The Mini-i thread can be a good resource for your questions; there are some that know a good deal more than me and even some modding going on so I suggest that you re-post your questions there. Also here is a link to the official rundown:
http://www.matrix-digi.com/english/fwshow.asp?pid=20


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Sorry but I am a 16/44.1 guy so I all I know is the Matrix goes up to 192kHz through s/pdif so probably optical is included, I think USB may be limited to 16/48 though. I was pleased that I went from 48kHz to actual 44.1 on my lossless redbook rips when I went through the Bravo to coax so I guess my priorities are different. It's a smooth solid state signature that meshes well with the Woo and features multiple inputs, balanced outs and is switchable from headphone amp to DAC modes. In the price category of the DACmagic I think it holds up well from a sound standpoint.
> 
> I don't use it on my 64-bit Mac so I don't know about that either but I do know that there are no drivers necessary for USB; it sounds best in s/pdif mode though. The Mini-i thread can be a good resource for your questions; there are some that know a good deal more than me and even some modding going on so I suggest that you re-post your questions there. Also here is a link to the official rundown:
> http://www.matrix-digi.com/english/fwshow.asp?pid=20


 

 I found your posting of the Mini-i-thread to be helpful. It should make for a nice bedtime read. I'm a Computer Audiophile using my Mac as my source. Will eventually add the Bolder Linear Power Supply for it. Current config for the 2010 Mac mini: SSD, 8GB/RAM, 64-bit kernel, Pure Music, Wireworld Electra 5 Power Cord, Wireworld Glass Optical.
   
  What are using as source?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I found your posting of the Mini-i-thread to be helpful. It should make for a nice bedtime read. I'm a Computer Audiophile using my Mac as my source. Will eventually add the Bolder Linear Power Supply for it. Current config for the 2010 Mac mini: SSD, 8GB/RAM, 64-bit kernel, Pure Music, Wireworld Electra 5 Power Cord, Wireworld Glass Optical.
> 
> What are using as source?


 

 The Mini-i is getting a coax feed out of the Firestone Bravo, which is re-clocking the USB out of an old single-core Mac Mini running ALAC with Pure Music/iTunes. I also have a toslink optical feed from my HP tablet into the Mini-i. I have an assortment of codecs that I fool around with on the HP running Winamp and iTunes, and I just use the MIni-i's selector to go back and forth between coax and optical inputs.
   
  I also use the Mini-i in headphone amp mode occasionally for less demanding headphones and a quick youtube or compressed whatnot, it's a standard opamp headhone amp but pretty versatile, I've listened to everything from HD600 to IEMs through it.


----------



## jonnyhambone

I've been poring over this thread - and many others - as I inch closer to ordering a WA 6se.  I don't know if I need one, but am convinced I surely want one.  I have a pair of Grado HF-1's as my main cans and will likely be getting another pair (Senn's, Beyers?...) over the next year.  I like that the 6se seems great w/ most headphone options and versatile and awesome enough to be my main amp for a long time coming.  Overkill for the low imped. Grados?  I _really_ like the sound of my HF-1's so I don't want to stray too far sound-wise.  Any one have any comments on my path here?   I love the tube sound from what I've heard on other's rigs but have little personal experience.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





jonnyhambone said:


> I've been poring over this thread - and many others - as I inch closer to ordering a WA 6se.  I don't know if I need one, but am convinced I surely want one.  I have a pair of Grado HF-1's as my main cans and will likely be getting another pair (Senn's, Beyers?...) over the next year.  I like that the 6se seems great w/ most headphone options and versatile and awesome enough to be my main amp for a long time coming.  Overkill for the low imped. Grados?  I _really_ like the sound of my HF-1's so I don't want to stray too far sound-wise.  Any one have any comments on my path here?   I love the tube sound from what I've heard on other's rigs but have little personal experience.


 


  My Grado SR-125i's sound great through the 6SE.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





jonnyhambone said:


> I've been poring over this thread - and many others - as I inch closer to ordering a WA 6se.  I don't know if I need one, but am convinced I surely want one.  I have a pair of Grado HF-1's as my main cans and will likely be getting another pair (Senn's, Beyers?...) over the next year.  I like that the 6se seems great w/ most headphone options and versatile and awesome enough to be my main amp for a long time coming.  Overkill for the low imped. Grados?  I _really_ like the sound of my HF-1's so I don't want to stray too far sound-wise.  Any one have any comments on my path here?   I love the tube sound from what I've heard on other's rigs but have little personal experience.


 
   
  One of the reasons I went with the 6SE was because of it's versitility.  I enjoy all of my headphones, which range from Grados, to Senns, Denon, and even an Ortho now.  Having the two outputs is really handy.    And of course you have the ability to tube roll to cater to a specific headphone as well!
   
  I don't think of it as overkill for the Grados at all!  I love what it does for my HF-2's.


----------



## Caphead78

I only have a lowly WA6 but I absolutely have never heard my SR225i's sound as good as they do through the 6.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote: 





caphead78 said:


> I only have a lowly WA6 but I absolutely have never heard my SR225i's sound as good as they do through the 6.


 


  x2


----------



## Silent One

Midday break... _lunch and listed._
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545563/fs-nos-matched-pair-ge-6sn7gta-1953-tubes


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hi Everyone:
   
  I purchased and received my Black WA-22 in late January, and since that time have purchased:
   
  JK Modded HiFace
  Upgraded my Macmini( 2.53 GHz core 2 duo) to 60Gig SSD, and 8Gig of RAM running in 64 bit mode.
  Matrix Mini-i balanced DAC
  Balanced cables for my HD 650's
  Upgraded my tube collection
  Purchased Calyx 32/194 Balanced DAC with KingRex PSU 
  Monster Powercentre powerconditioner
  and late last week received my LCD-2's along with my Norse Audio 4pin balanced cable.
   
  The sound is quite exceptional out of the WA-22. 
  The HD650's balanced through it were brought to another level, and I used those for almost two months while waiting for the LCD-2's.
  The LCD-2's are on another level than the HD650's (which really are not bad, and could have lived with them).
  The base depth out of the Audeze's is amazing.
   
  WRT the DAC's, for the money the Matrix IMO is very capable balanced DAC, with the added bonus that it has a very good headphone amp built in that is quite usable. Couple this with either a M2Tech Hiface, or as I did a modded Hiface (by John Kenny) and the sound is superb. The Calyx DAC however does improve upon this setup in terms of resolution and clearness, but at more than twice the cost of the Matrix and JK Hiface combination.
  I am currently using Audirvana as my player, which of the players I have tried (Amarra, Pure Music, Decibel, Fidelia) sounds the best with the added bonus that it is free.
  I can say without reservation, that I have no regrets with my purchase of the WA22 given the performance it delivers.
  I also purchased the Smyth SVS Realiser, but have not yet had time to get my calibration done with them to fully appreciate it. It is unfortunately and unbalanced source, and may not play well with the WA22. I will know better after I get back from LA where I am getting my calibration done. The realiser should be great however for surround sound listening such as HD movies etc.
   
  I also wound up purchasing a black eames lounge chair with ottoman to really get comfortable enjoying my new sonic environment.
   
  The only bad thing about all of this has been my wallet.
   
  Rumble


----------



## LostChild1

Rumble, I need to get me one of those big chairs, I currently listen from my bed, in a sort of awkward half sitting / half lying down position because if I lie down completely my headphones will usually slip off, or just be uncomfortable! 

Glad to hear you like the sound from your WA22. How would you describe the difference between the HD650s and the LCD-2s? I'm considering getting myself a pair in the near future, and I used to own a pair of the 650s, and really liked them to be honest.

Anyway, I also have a question to the owners here: I'm finally looking to buy a Mullard GZ34, but I don't know a terrible amount about tubes. I found this page which lists a bunch of different GZ34s, and I was wondering which you'd recommend. I see that only one of them, the Brown Bases, is listed with the Woo Audio 6, but I gather that any and all GZ34 would work with a WA6, no? It's also my understanding that either one dated f31 or f32 is my best bet?

And when I see ratings listed in eBay listing, say 65/63, how long would you typically guess that tube would still be good for? 100 hours? 200 hours? More? 

Thanks again folks!


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hi LostChild:
   
  The sound signature is similar in regards to the HD 650 verses the LCD-2's, however the LCD-2's just seem better in pretty much every area. Soundstage seems about the same, perhaps sightly more enhanced with the LCD-2's. The bass definitely goes lower and with more impact on the 2's. Midrange again is better on the 2's. I hear more with the LCD-2's than with the HD-650's. It is as if some veil has been lifted as compared to the 650's.
  The 650's are definitely not bad, the Audeze's are just better. I must say the the 650's balanced provide a very respectable sound, and if I had not hear the LCD-2's, would have been quite happy with them as my primary cans. I could sense that there was "more" to the music than the 650's were giving, but they are a very musical headphone, and well suited to long listening sessions.


----------



## snapple10

glad to be a woo amp owner. But I am afraid it has cost me some much needed sleep in the last few days, haha


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





lostchild1 said:


> Anyway, I also have a question to the owners here: I'm finally looking to buy a Mullard GZ34, but I don't know a terrible amount about tubes. I found this page which lists a bunch of different GZ34s, and I was wondering which you'd recommend. I see that only one of them, the Brown Bases, is listed with the Woo Audio 6, but I gather that any and all GZ34 would work with a WA6, no? It's also my understanding that either one dated f31 or f32 is my best bet?
> 
> And when I see ratings listed in eBay listing, say 65/63, how long would you typically guess that tube would still be good for? 100 hours? 200 hours? More?
> 
> Thanks again folks!


 


  There is a lot to pick up at first, but you'll get the hang of it.  Best thing is to read through some long threads on tube amps and just absorb the info that gets dropped here and there.
   
  As for your Mullard tube, the numbers 65/63 refers to the emission test results for each of the tubes sections.  What this number means is completely dependent upon the tube tester that was used, each kind gives results on different scales and has a different value for "new" and "minimum good" values.  Without knowing this info the test results are pretty much worthless, and it is best to avoid sellers who do not list this complete info in their listing or won't provide it via email.  For example if the seller tested using a TV7 tube tester (which tends to be somewhat common with rectifiers, unless I'm remembering this wrong) then these would be pretty strong test results but not enough to be considered a new tube probably. 
   
  A tube that tests new or "NOS" should last for thousands of hours in the WA6, not hundreds.  It will vary depending upon usage, frequency of power cycling, temperature, ect. but figure 3000-5000 hours if the tube doesn't develop any problems that will shorten its life cycle.  The small driver/output tubes will last even longer, say around 6000-9000 hours if the tube is new/NOS.
   
  Oh, and yes any GZ34 will work in the amp so long as it is in good working condition and the sections are not badly out of balance.  I personally feel the older a tube is the better it performs, but that isn't a hard and fast rule so trust your own ears.  You might feel more comfortable trying a few cheap tubes first to get a feel for how they change the sound of the amp.  I always suggest the RCA 5R4GY as a first roll for the WA6 because you can find one for $10 if you look around and they sound good with the amp.  The driver tubes also impact the sound strongly, many feel more so than the rectifier does, so there is lots of possibilities there too.  Happy tube rolling!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





lostchild1 said:


> Anyway, I also have a question to the owners here: I'm finally looking to buy a Mullard GZ34, but I don't know a terrible amount about tubes. I found this page which lists a bunch of different GZ34s, and I was wondering which you'd recommend. I see that only one of them, the Brown Bases, is listed with the Woo Audio 6, but I gather that any and all GZ34 would work with a WA6, no? It's also my understanding that either one dated f31 or f32 is my best bet?
> 
> And when I see ratings listed in eBay listing, say 65/63, how long would you typically guess that tube would still be good for? 100 hours? 200 hours? More?


 
   
  I have both regular black based and metal based Mullard GZ34, both are excellent rectifier and to my ears they are better than the Sophia princess.  It is much more impact and dynamic but smaller soundstage than the Sophia princess.  I really love it when using both HD800 and D7000 but I prefer the EML 5U4G or EML 274B when using LCD-2. 
   
  The difference between the black and metal based GZ34 is marginal and it is not really worth the extra money for it, it has more details and smoother but you really have to look for it.  Just checked the page you linked, did not notice the metal based's price go up that much, I should sell mine to fund another pair of TS BGRP.
   
  It is hard to say how long a tube will last with test numbers but my black based one tested 68/65 (if my memory still serves me right), I have put in at least over 700 hours on it.  I got it when I had my WA6. 
   
  EDIT - one thing to remember when using GZ34 on WA22, the amp runs much hotter than using 274B or 5U4G rectifier.  Jack did said this is normal but I never use it more than 4 hours, while sometimes when I work from home, I leave the amp on at least 8-10 hours when using 274B or 5U4G.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hi Everyone:
> 
> I purchased and received my Black WA-22 in late January, and since that time have purchased:
> 
> ...


 


  Don't know anything about your DAC but if you can use the optical out from your Realiser to a balanced DAC and then a pair of XLR's interconnects to your WA-22 that would take care of the balanced and improve your audio. However this will only work if the DAC you are using  is better than the Realiser DAC. This way your Realiser is doing a A/D and your DAC is doing the D/A conversation, this type of setup should improve your AQ if you are using a better DAC than the Realiser. Also you will be able to raise the volume level on your Realiser without any distortion to help out with your LCD-2.
  I would also recommend a pair of HE-6's but the WA-22 will not power them properly, however they are wonderful with the Realiser.
  By all means use you LCD-2's with this kind of setup, the HD-650's just don't cut it when you get your PRIR's from AIX.
  Also the Oppo BDP-95 is a great addition with its dual Sabre 9018 DAC, not only is it great for 2Ch analog audio but for 5.1/7.1 (LPCM, DSD HD MA, True HD) analog audio out to your Realiser.The PQ is also very good.
   
  I take it you are going to see Lorr at AIX studio. Make sure Dominic balances the speakers well for both 5.1 and 7.1 reference system B/W's.


----------



## Icenine2

I too own a black Eames Chair+ottoman for listening.  I've had it sixteen years and in the early days I used it for listening to the big rig.  Now headphones.  It is wonderful and cool looking (check out TV and print ads.  They are all over the place.)  No tube upgrades involved or worrying about outdated bit rates!  Eames............there is no substitute!  
  
  Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hi Everyone:
> 
> I purchased and received my Black WA-22 in late January, and since that time have purchased:
> 
> ...


----------



## Golfnutz

Minimum value for the 5AR4/GZ34 is 40 in my TV-7/U tester. Any value between 60-70 should be pretty good, with 70 being very nice. Hickok tester don't have a minimum, they just tell you if they are good or not (at least with my Western Electric 15560 (modeled after the Hickok 739)).  If someone gives you a number from one of these testers, it won't mean much (unless they charted test results manually and can tell you how it compares within their own tests).


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hi Silly Sally:
   
  Thanks for your feedback. Actually it was one of your posts on this thread that put me on to the Realiser. Once I started reading some of the treads on it, I thought that this sounded wonderful. So far I really haven't hooked it up yet (got it in last friday). I wanted to get the calibrations done as this is really the way to go as I understand it. Your input on the Realiser threads were extremely helpful and would like to thank you for your contributions. And yes I am meeting up with Lorr on Thursday Mar 31 and am doing the AIX studio.
  In your opinion is it worth doing the THX setup they have there, or is the 5.1 and 7.1 systems enough? They are charging an extra amount for the THX settings, but from what I have read and been able to gather online, most just wind up using the 5.1/7.1 calibration as it is the best. That being said, I may not be in LA again for some time, and for the small extra cost it may be worth getting the THX calibration also done.
  I am mainly using it for music (stereo) listening, but I have an Onkyo AV reciever coming in that I will be using for input into the Realiser. I will also look at the Oppo BDP-95 although currently am not watching much on Blueray (although that may change if the realiser sounds as good as everyone is saying it does). I do rent HD movies on my Apple TV which I will connect to the Onkyo for 5.1 surround sound and then into the Realiser.
  If they ever make a Balanced output option for the Realiser I would definitely be interested in that.
  As for my DAC, it is ideally suited for USB input via a computer, but does have S/PDIF coaxial input which I could take from the realiser, but from what I can gather the USB input is the better of the two. Here is a review of the DAC for anyone interested:
   
  http://www.digitalaudioblog.com/2011/02/review-calyx-dac-24192.html
   
  Thanks for everyones input this site is excellent with a lot of helpful contributors.
   
  Rumble


----------



## LostChild1

So, I ended up buying this:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360354123699#ht_733wt_1139

I was outbid on a couple of tubes just the other day, and I figured I'd throw in a bit of extra cash to just get it over with, and have something that is apparently new and should last me, well, forever if thousands of hours are to be expected!  

I realize he used a Hickok tester, but it's the best I could find on eBay, many sellers don't list either what equipment they used to test the tube with, or what scores they received. So given that this one is apparently NOS, I figured that at least both scores, and brand were given, and the guy looks pretty legit. I guess only time will tell. 

I'm pretty excited to receive it though! Can't wait to hear how it sounds!


----------



## jc9394

That is a great find, the last NOS I found is around $150. You will love it with your WA6, it will give you extra punch in the lower end that sometimes HD800 needs. The burn in on GZ34 take forever, I think my metal base one take around 500+ hours.


----------



## LostChild1

jc9394 said:


> That is a great find, the last NOS I found is around $150. You will love it with your WA6, it will give you extra punch in the lower end that sometimes HD800 needs. The burn in on GZ34 take forever, I think my metal base one take around 500+ hours.




Glad to hear. I really hope it does something for my HD800s because as it stands now I'm unfortunately underwhelmed with them, hence why I was thinking about the LCD2s, but it will be a while before I have the cash to buy those (Unless I were to sell the 800s outright) 

Anyway, before ANY of that happens, I guess I'll have a fairly lengthy burn in period ahead of me.  

Thanks again to everyone for steering me in the right direction, it really adds confidence to my purchase.


----------



## jc9394

Pair the GZ34 with Sylvania 6FD7, that is the combo I love the most with HD800 before I get the WA22.


----------



## LostChild1

That's what I've had since the very beginning. I found out the the 6FD7s aren't meant to be the tubes shipped with the WA6, but for some reason they're the ones I was given when I received my WA6.  So I'm not complaining!


----------



## jc9394

Did you told Jack that you have a HD800? Sometimes he will include the best driver tubes for the headphone, it depends on what he has in stock. He sent me the 6EW7 when I told him that I'm planning to use it with W5000.


----------



## dminches

How does this GZ34 compare to the ones you guys have been discussing? http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1306107707&/Mullard-GZ34-f31-code---195


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lostchild1 said:


> So, I ended up buying this:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360354123699#ht_733wt_1139
> 
> ****


 
   
  I see that your GZ34 has 4-notch serrated plates. I've seen ones with 7-notch plates and some with no notches. Does anyone know the differences between the 4-notch, 7-notch and no-notch GZ34 plates? I only own the 7-notch version. Thanks!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hi Silly Sally:
> 
> Thanks for your feedback. Actually it was one of your posts on this thread that put me on to the Realiser. Once I started reading some of the treads on it, I thought that this sounded wonderful. So far I really haven't hooked it up yet (got it in last friday). I wanted to get the calibrations done as this is really the way to go as I understand it. Your input on the Realiser threads were extremely helpful and would like to thank you for your contributions. And yes I am meeting up with Lorr on Thursday Mar 31 and am doing the AIX studio.
> In your opinion is it worth doing the THX setup they have there, or is the 5.1 and 7.1 systems enough? They are charging an extra amount for the THX settings, but from what I have read and been able to gather online, most just wind up using the 5.1/7.1 calibration as it is the best. That being said, I may not be in LA again for some time, and for the small extra cost it may be worth getting the THX calibration also done.
> ...


 
  Yes the Realiser is everthing everybody says about it and more if you get into using the professional settings the Realiser offers. Just remember the Realiser excels with MC audio.
  I don't think the Realiser has a coaxial out port. It has a USB remote port but I know nothing about that, don't use any streaming for audio or video. I could stream most anything through my Oppo BD-09 then out to my Realiser via the analog RCA 2Ch, 5.1 and 7.1 Ch outputs. Yes the Oppo 95 has a fully balanced 2Ch XLR analog out port's.
   
  I have the THX 5.1 from AIX but don't use it much, mainly the 5.1 reference system. You don't need a 2Ch PRIR because you can use the front two Ch on anyone of these PRIR's for 2Ch audio the RF/LF speakers are all set on +/- 30 degree angel. As long as your there get the THX PRIR that way you can hear for yourself and you may find using the THX system with THX mastered movie's better.
   
  Ask AIX sound engineer if he is using any bass management and what he is setting the huge SW at. I had him setup his systems for the Oppo 83 that AIX does have, and the Oppo 95 is the same just has better DAC's and sounds better then the Oppo 83.
   
  I also have the Onkyo AV and there 7.1 speaker system, if you really want to blow your mind do a PRIR using your Onkyo system and then compare to the PRIR's from AIX.
   
  ss


----------



## SDMAN

Well, I have been a member (Woo Audio Amp owner) in waiting. But no more. My silver WA-22 was delivered yesterday. I took it to work and un-boxed it there. The 5998 Tung-sol's, Treasures and Princess rectifier were already there. And today, my re-cabled T1's showed up from getting the balanced cable conversion. Will burn it in using a relatively low end CD player (cause its the only thing I currently have), but have my eye on a lightly used Ayon CD-1 (24/192 balanced tube output) that I am trying to purchase. Im chasing a few other tubes, but will stick with the line-up mentioned for a while.


----------



## sillysally

I found this review by Jude to be intresting when he was talking about musicman59's WA5LE and how it did with the HE-6's.
   
  "One of the best amps I've so far heard with the HE-6 was Head-Fi'er *musicman59's* carefully tubed, maxed-out Woo Audio WA5-LE (one of my dream amps)--it was simply sublime, and, on balance, maybe the best I've yet heard the HE-6 sound. In my brief listen to musicman59's rig, what captivated me was the texture, the microdynamics, and a warmth of tone that the HE-6 benefits from beautifully. Does the Lyr, at probably $3500 less than that big, tricked-out Woo, do the same? Well, no."  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545805/schiit-audio-lyr-my-first-impressions#post_7358255
   
  The WA5/LE is the only amp I have found to get everything right.


----------



## sphinxvc

Anyone have any idea how the chinese makers stack up to the Woo?  The Dark Voice amps or Little Dots vs. WA6SE?  Any Woo owners have any time with these budget brands?


----------



## jc9394

I have a LD4SE before getting the WA6, there is no comparison on the build quality.  I do not have both of them together but memory reminds the WA6 kick the LD4SE's butt when pair with W5000 and HD600.  The SQ is not that much of difference when pair with HD600 but you can tell the soundstage has more depth to it.


----------



## sphinxvc

^ noted - thanks.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Anyone have any idea how the chinese makers stack up to the Woo?  The Dark Voice amps or Little Dots vs. WA6SE?  Any Woo owners have any time with these budget brands?


 


  I had a Little Dot MKIII before my 6SE.  It was warmer...super lush, but it lacked severely in dynamics and detail resolution.  Don't get me wrong...it's a killer amp for $200.  It does a lot of things very right, but power, punch, and volume were not among them.  Higher impedence cans work better with the LD than lower as it can't deliver the current to drive them.  The 6SE is transformer coupled and delivers 2 watts to my 50 ohm 'phones.  The LD was only giving me like 200mW into 50 ohms.  It was a nice match for my Senn 650's as long as I wasn't expecting great dynamics and as long as I kept the volume to reasonable levels. 
   
  In short, I liked the LDMKIII, but it's a far cry from the 6SE.  Haven't heard the MKIV, but it's more about upgraded partrs than about more power.  I think you need to go all the way to the MKVIII to get something close, and even that's not going to drive everything you may be considering down the line, the way the 6SE will.


----------



## brasewel

I have heard a stock Little Dot MK VIII SE and I thought it was a superb amp for the money. Build quality is definitely better on the Woos but from what I can recollect I thought it was slightly better than the 6SE. However, I was listening through a fully balanced setup so it may not be a fair comparison.


----------



## LostChild1

dminches said:


> How does this GZ34 compare to the ones you guys have been discussing? http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1306107707&/Mullard-GZ34-f31-code---195




I believe that's the exact same one I just bought, which based on the date code, is purportedly the "best" GZ34 you can buy. The only difference being, as Clayton_SF pointed out, that my GZ34 has four notches on the side plates, and the one you linked to has none (His has seven). We're not sure what this means sonically... 

@jc9394, I've had my WA6 for a little over two years now, far before I had the HD800s (I just got those recently). I was originally using them with the HD650s, but I don't think I ever told Jack that. The only thing that makes my WA6 different, is that I asked for two inputs, for easy switching between my computer and my record player. 

@Clayton_SF, I wasn't even aware that there were different ones! Just when I thought there couldn't be more variety in tubes, you go and throw this out there


----------



## Icenine2

SD,
   
  Let's see some pictures!  I have the same amp.  You will love it.
  
  Quote: 





sdman said:


> Well, I have been a member (Woo Audio Amp owner) in waiting. But no more. My silver WA-22 was delivered yesterday. I took it to work and un-boxed it there. The 5998 Tung-sol's, Treasures and Princess rectifier were already there. And today, my re-cabled T1's showed up from getting the balanced cable conversion. Will burn it in using a relatively low end CD player (cause its the only thing I currently have), but have my eye on a lightly used Ayon CD-1 (24/192 balanced tube output) that I am trying to purchase. Im chasing a few other tubes, but will stick with the line-up mentioned for a while.


----------



## Silent One

Questions? _I've got answers_! First, allow me a moment to move away from the cracked window and back to my desk. I was sitting by the window enjoying an elegant cup of green tea, listening to the rainfall with focus. (Or whenever I'm indulging tea inside this thread it's 'Woo-Tang!' Thanks, Clayton SF). To hear rainfall in real-time can be a remarkable performance. If one is still long enough and focused, it' amazing how much larger the sound field becomes with greater clarity, depth and separation of raindrops.
   
  Anyway, back to the post - the answer, the question and the topic. The answer: Because as Woo Audio Owners we're united and look after our own. The question: But why? The topic:Making a trek to see our Audiologists. Usually I make the annual visit to see my Audiologist every May/June. And I was thinking we should (collectively) decide and designate a "See your Audiologist Month." 
   
  No matter where around the world we are, we could do it in the spirit of health and camaraderie. I say "Get seen & clean!" By designating a month, even if one decides not to participate, the importance of such a visit will be promoted and now on the minds of many... those like us that we care about... _we are them! _
   
  Silent One
   
  Post Script.:  I don't have a problem with my hearing and never have. I always viewed such care as maintenance, similar to going to a Doctor, Dentist and other health professionals _before_ something happens.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Questions? _I've got answers_! First, allow me a moment to move away from the cracked window and back to my desk. I was sitting by the window enjoying an elegant cup of green tea, listening to the rainfall with focus. (Or whenever I'm indulging tea inside this thread it's 'Woo-Tang!' Thanks, Clayton SF). To hear rainfall in real-time can be a remarkable performance. If one is still long enough and focused, it' amazing how much larger the sound field becomes with greater clarity, depth and separation of raindrops.
> 
> Anyway, back to the post - the answer, the question and the topic. The answer: Because as Woo Audio Owners we're united and look after our own. The question: But why? The topic:Making a trek to see our Audiologists. Usually I make the annual visit to see my Audiologist every May/June. And I was thinking we should (collectively) decide and designate a "See your Audiologist Month."
> 
> ...


 

 I hear you, Silent One.


----------



## mikemalter

I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by leesure 





 "I had a Little Dot MKIII before my 6SE.  It was warmer...super lush, but it lacked severely in dynamics and detail resolution.  Don't get me wrong...it's a killer amp for $200.  It does a lot of things very right, but power, punch, and volume were not among them.  Higher impedence cans work better with the LD than lower as it can't deliver the current to drive them.  The 6SE is transformer coupled and delivers 2 watts to my 50 ohm 'phones.  The LD was only giving me like 200mW into 50 ohms.  It was a nice match for my Senn 650's as long as I wasn't expecting great dynamics and as long as I kept the volume to reasonable levels. 
 In short, I liked the LDMKIII, but it's a far cry from the 6SE.  Haven't heard the MKIV, but it's more about upgraded partrs than about more power.  I think you need to go all the way to the MKVIII to get something close, and even that's not going to drive everything you may be considering down the line, the way the 6SE will."


 This pretty much mirrors my experience. I liked the MKIII for the money though. I had Mullard tubes which brought out the most from that Little Dot. The Woo, even in stock form, has more control over the music when compared to the LD.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


 


  The stock cable that is now shipping with them is supposed to be pretty good.  They improved it over what was originally shipping with the cans.  You can get a balanced cable directly from them too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


 

 "LCD-2?" Is that an acronym for "Living the good life, too?!" What a grand way to come out of winter and into spring...


----------



## emremusic

Does anybody own WA6se and HE6? Would you recommend this combo?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


 
   
  Congrats Mike! They're a great contrast for the HD800 out of the WA22. The new cable is nice, I would just get the stock SE cable from Audeze as they never seem to have the balanced cable available and if you read back a dozen or three pages in the LCD-2 thread you'll see the Norse Audio cable, that's what I would look into for balanced. He's a Head-fier that just became a MOT that only makes LCD-2 cables, everybody loves them and they're quite reasonably priced. I like my Double Helix Molecule(s) as well but if I was to do it again for the LCD-2 it would be the Norse.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Does anybody own WA6se and HE6? Would you recommend this combo?


 

 Yes i own a max WA6SE and no I would not recommend the HE-6.


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes i own a max WA6SE and no I would not recommend the HE-6.


 

 Thanks Sillysally, 
  Is it because WA6SE is not strong enough for the HE-6?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Anyone have any idea how the chinese makers stack up to the Woo?  The Dark Voice amps or Little Dots vs. WA6SE?  Any Woo owners have any time with these budget brands?


 

 Yes I have a LD IVSE and a WA6SE. the LDIVSE is a good amp and pairs well with something like the HD-650. Is the 6SE a better sounding amp yes but that not much. Now if you move into a higher end headphone like a D7000 or a HD-800 the 6SE is much better.. 
  My son now has my LDIVSE and my HD-650's, he love it.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Thanks Sillysally,
> Is it because WA6SE is not strong enough for the HE-6?


 

 Volume wise the 6SE can give you the volume unless you really want to blast it. The problem is with the WA6SE is the HE-6 just sounds like any other dynamic headphone, sound-stage, detail, high and low range, ect. The only true headphone amp that does work well with the HE-6 is the WA5/LE, that I know about.
  If you want orthos look at the LCD-2, granted its not a HE-6 but a 6SE or 22 may be ok with the LCD-2, but that you would have to check out to be sure.


----------



## brasewel

The WA5 was the only amp I found that could drive the HE-6. It required the volume set to max on most amps and still sounded muddy. A lot of people use the speaker out from their receivers to power the HE-6. Fang is coming out with a new can, HE-500 which is basically a more efficient HE-6.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


 

  
  Another recommendation for the Norse cables.  I'm currently listing to my LCD-2's through the Norse 8-conductor cables.  I ordered them balanced with an adaptor to single ended so I can use them on everything. 
   
  When 1st auditioning them, I didn't hear must difference...a little better soundstaging...more out-of-the-head.  However, whenj I was packing up for the NYC meet, I had packed up the Norse cables but decided to listen a little more before bed. * I put the stock cables back on and everything just sounded dead by comparison. * A very worthwhile and relatively inexpensive upgrade.
   
  I have both the 8 conductor and the 4 conductor versions.  The differences between those are subtle to say the least.  The 4-C is MUCH lighter and I will probably end up with them on more often than not for single ended listening.
   
  The 4-c's were $139 for 6ft and $5/foot for extra length. 
   
  I've heard that the silver cables from ALO are nice as well, but also significantly brighter.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The stock cable that is now shipping with them is supposed to be pretty good.  They improved it over what was originally shipping with the cans.  You can get a balanced cable directly from them too.


 
  Ok, thanks.
  
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> "LCD-2?" Is that an acronym for "Living the good life, too?!" What a grand way to come out of winter and into spring...


 
  I did not think of it that way, SilentOne, but yes, that is what is happening, me and my LCD-2 are stepping out into spring.

  
   


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congrats Mike! They're a great contrast for the HD800 out of the WA22. The new cable is nice, I would just get the stock SE cable from Audeze as they never seem to have the balanced cable available and if you read back a dozen or three pages in the LCD-2 thread you'll see the Norse Audio cable, that's what I would look into for balanced. He's a Head-fier that just became a MOT that only makes LCD-2 cables, everybody loves them and they're quite reasonably priced. I like my Double Helix Molecule(s) as well but if I was to do it again for the LCD-2 it would be the Norse.


 
  I have to do something to tame the high end as my ears are starting to bleed.  I have a Monarchy DIP in the signal chain between my DLIII DAC and Wadia i170 and it makes everything so tonally correct.  Now that I've got a new PWD/bridge, the Monarchy DIP is out of the signal chain, and everything seems harsh and thin at the top end.  I've read that the LCD-2 rolls off the top end a bit, and I am hoping that will be enough.
   
  I'll look into the Norse, thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Another recommendation for the Norse cables.  I'm currently listing to my LCD-2's through the Norse 8-conductor cables.  I ordered them balanced with an adaptor to single ended so I can use them on everything.
> 
> When 1st auditioning them, I didn't hear must difference...a little better soundstaging...more out-of-the-head.  However, whenj I was packing up for the NYC meet, I had packed up the Norse cables but decided to listen a little more before bed. * I put the stock cables back on and everything just sounded dead by comparison. * A very worthwhile and relatively inexpensive upgrade.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for these details.  So your thinking is that the 4-C is the sweet spot?  If the sliver cables are in the least bit bright, then I'm definately not interested in them.  That is very good to know.
   
  I heard the NYC meet was really great.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thank you for these details.  So your thinking is that the 4-C is the sweet spot?  If the sliver cables are in the least bit bright, then I'm definately not interested in them.  That is very good to know.
> 
> I heard the NYC meet was really great.


 

 I certainly think they are the best value for the dollar. 
   I have to do more A-B between the 4 & 8 to be definative about the value between those 2.


----------



## leesure

The NYC meet was great.  Got to meet Jack and his father and hear the WA22 (sublime with the LCD-2's) and WA-5 for the 1st time.
   
  Impressions and pics here...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545105/nyc-spring-2011-meet-march-19th-impressions-and-pictures
   
  This is the Norse 8-C...
   

   
  My WA6SE:

   
  Towert7's WES
   

   
  Jack's WA5


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


 


  I tried the Norse cable and like it but to me it is too bulky and heavy, I end up using a Moon Audio Silver Dragon and I don't think it pair well with WA22 (TS5998, Brimar CV1988, and EML 5U4G) but it does very well with Treasure instead of the Brimar.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


 

 You little devil you! How am I supposed to keep up with the mikemalters? Huh? That's my next purchase but I hear there's a month-long wait or more. Oh well, I waited longer for my WA22.
   
  This week I was battling a hum on my WA22. Very slight hum off the left channel. I swapped every rectifier known to Man and Woman. 5AR4, 5U4, 5R4, 5Z4, 5Z3, 5V4, coke bottle, short bottle, tall bottle, bottle-nose j/k, etc. The hum still persisted. Sometime softer, sometimes louder and only perceptible during quiet passages or between tracks. All with the HD650. So I decided to listen to my DT990 600 ohm and NO HUM. It was the Sennheiser all along.
   
  Would anyone care to theorize on this. Is it because of the 600 ohm business?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Who knows what tomorrow will bring.


----------



## Skylab

A lot of tube amps will "exhibit" hum with some headphones and not others.  It can be very complex.  For example with my Leben I will hear hum with my high-sensitivity headphones ONLY when the kitchen dimmers are on!  Otherwise quiet.  My Woo amps don't ever hum with any headphones, mercifully.  The DV337, when I had it, was silent with 600 ohm Beyers but hummed with lower impedance headphones.  Ditto the Ming Da amp I had.  I think OTL amps often will exhibit hum with low impedance headphones, but your WA22 is not OTL and the HD650 are not low impedance.  So it's probably AC line pollution of some sort (assuming it's not the driver or output tubes...)
   
  Like I said, can be complex...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





leesure said:


> I certainly think they are the best value for the dollar.
> I have to do more A-B between the 4 & 8 to be definative about the value between those 2.


 

 I'd be interested in your impressions as you test.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I tried the Norse cable and like it but to me it is too bulky and heavy, I end up using a Moon Audio Silver Dragon and I don't think it pair well with WA22 (TS5998, Brimar CV1988, and EML 5U4G) but it does very well with Treasure instead of the Brimar.


 

 Yeah, I think the dynamics of my system will be different once the LCD-2 gets here.  It will be interesting to arrainge things again.
  
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You little devil you! How am I supposed to keep up with the mikemalters? Huh? That's my next purchase but I hear there's a month-long wait or more. Oh well, I waited longer for my WA22.
> 
> This week I was battling a hum on my WA22. Very slight hum off the left channel. I swapped every rectifier known to Man and Woman. 5AR4, 5U4, 5R4, 5Z4, 5Z3, 5V4, coke bottle, short bottle, tall bottle, bottle-nose j/k, etc. The hum still persisted. Sometime softer, sometimes louder and only perceptible during quiet passages or between tracks. All with the HD650. So I decided to listen to my DT990 600 ohm and NO HUM. It was the Sennheiser all along.
> 
> ...


 

 Keep up with me, hardly - you are the MAN!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike        I bought my LCD-2 from ALO with one of his silver/copper combo cables and was able to avoid the 5-6 week wait and got the phones and cable at the same time.  The combo is great.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How does this GZ34 compare to the ones you guys have been discussing? http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1306107707&/Mullard-GZ34-f31-code---195


 


  Hey gang -- any opinion as to whether the Mullard rectifier linked here is legit? The whole "re-labeled with the newer Mullard logo" thing makes me a little nervous. This seller seems to have a number of these available.
   
  Thanks for your opinions!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Mike        I bought my LCD-2 from ALO with one of his silver/copper combo cables and was able to avoid the 5-6 week wait and got the phones and cable at the same time.  The combo is great.


 

 Is ALO a store or a person selling stuff.  Any link to his website if he is a store?  Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Is ALO a store or a person selling stuff.  Any link to his website if he is a store?  Thanks.


 

 http://www.aloaudio.com/


----------



## WindyCityCy

Thanks JC
   
  This is correct.  ALO Audio.  I have purchased a few things from them and have been happy with everything.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> http://www.aloaudio.com/


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> http://www.aloaudio.com/


 


   


  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Thanks JC
> 
> This is correct.  ALO Audio.  I have purchased a few things from them and have been happy with everything.


 


 Aloha!


----------



## mikemalter

I went ahead and ordered a pair of the LCD-2 from ALO.  I had to get their cable since they don't sell an LCD-2 with the stock cable.  I got a pair of balanced connectors with the round chain mail 8 foot cable.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got on the waiting list for the LCD-2.  Can anyone recommend a good cable upgrade?  Thanks.


 

 You won't have long to wait Mike, I had less than a month since jumping on the wait list until they shipped today.  Why do things always seem to ship on Fridays, I won't see them until Monday which makes for a long weekend. 

  
  Quote: 





brasewel said:


> The WA5 was the only amp I found that could drive the HE-6. It required the volume set to max on most amps and still sounded muddy. A lot of people use the speaker out from their receivers to power the HE-6. Fang is coming out with a new can, HE-500 which is basically a more efficient HE-6.


 

 I'd also recomend the HE-5LE with the 6SE.  I've even seen a few others who actually still prefer the 5LE over the 6.  I couldn't say, I've not compared the two except in meet conditions.  I can say I enjoy the 5LE from my SE, great combination.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Thanks JC
> 
> This is correct.  ALO Audio.  I have purchased a few things from them and have been happy with everything.


 

 X2, I have very good experience from them.
   


  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I went ahead and ordered a pair of the LCD-2 from ALO.  I had to get their cable since they don't sell an LCD-2 with the stock cable.  I got a pair of balanced connectors with the round chain mail 8 foot cable.


 


  I wish I have gone this route too but I just don't want to spend another $500 for the after market cable if I don't like the LCD-2.  Kicking myself now since LCD-2 is THE phone I go to now, both my HD800 and D7000 sitting lonely in the closet since I received the LCD-2.  The LCD-2/WA22 is simply amazing, you will notice a difference on every tube rolling.  Be ready to spend countless sleepless night.
   
  Did you get your PWD issue fixed?


----------



## shipsupt

Well, I guess you can scratch my last comment about the short wait, sounds like you'll have no wait at all!  Enjoy!


  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I went ahead and ordered a pair of the LCD-2 from ALO.  I had to get their cable since they don't sell an LCD-2 with the stock cable.  I got a pair of balanced connectors with the round chain mail 8 foot cable.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm thinking about picking up a pair of Fischer Audio FA-011s to tide me over until bigger changes can happen.  For $118 the risk certainly seems low, and a respected reviewer claims they perform on par with the HD-650 which would make them an incredible value if true.  I'm a bit leery of the claims though since the buzz around them really feels like a FOTM thing right now.  They certainly look like a more expensive can than they are, if they sound that way too they'll become legendary on this forum soon enough.


----------



## Wedge

Just finished plugging in my WA-5!
   

   

   
   
   
  Listening through speakers for a while at least until the tubes settle in.  I ordered with EML 5U4G and EML 300B but they are delayed, as of right now.  I am using Mullard ECC32 for my 6SN7s.  I'll give it some time and try to post some impressions.


----------



## jamato8

Excellent!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, I have very good experience from them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for asking about my PWD.  From my perspective, I think I have a PWD issue, but am not ready to raise this with PS Audio yet.  I'm going to let it go for at least 100 hours and will then will talk to them if there is no change (so far it's staying the same).   I did finally get my P5 in, and that did help somewhat, but did not solve the problem.  The only thing I can think of doing is to send the DAC in and ask them to listen to it and tell me if there is a problem or not.  I am certain on my unit coax is better than the bridge, and everyone I talk to about this says that on their units the bridge is clearly superior to coax.
   
  Regarding the LCD-2.  I'm glad you think I went the right way on it.  I keep hearing raves on it, and people are saying that the aftermarket cable does make a difference.  I really did not want to spend the extra money either, but then again, I didn't want to wait a month before it became my turn to buy a pair, and I really need to get this harsh top-end issue resolved.  They should be here by the end of next week.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Congrats Wedge, she's a beauty.  I think I will have to go with black next time myself.    I'm a little surprised you went straight for the Mullards when the stock Shuguangs are still in the amp though.  Then again, after seeing your posts in the 6SN7 thread you have no shortage of highly desirable tubes to play with so why not right?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Just finished plugging in my WA-5!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  The absence of color (Black), has never before looked _so good_ in the light of day! "Burn-in" doesn't require patience... just _"Take-out!"  _


----------



## Wedge

Yeah I have a few more desirable tubes now.  I never really ever listened to Shuguangs ever before except at the meet and now at home.  They don't seem all that terrible but not really my cup of tea, I guess.  From what I'm hearing and mind you they barely have an hour on them, so far what I would want to change is the highs of them.  I don't believe what I'm hearing in the highs to be the work of the Mullards.  I had a temporary amp I was listening to for a while that had all sort of problems (sold my old amplifier the WA-5 replaced a month ago), so going to this is like heaven as opposed to bleh.  I need to get reacquainted with this level of sound again.


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I'd also recomend the HE-5LE with the 6SE.  I've even seen a few others who actually still prefer the 5LE over the 6.  I couldn't say, I've not compared the two except in meet conditions.  I can say I enjoy the 5LE from my SE, great combination.
> 
> 
> When you are using the SE with the 5LE, is the volume knob still around the 10-12 hour mark?? With my 701s I never go above 12. Im just trying to get an idea for a future investment in some he5le's for my 6se... Sillysally said only wa5le could drive he6's...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thanks for asking about my PWD.  From my perspective, I think I have a PWD issue, but am not ready to raise this with PS Audio yet.  I'm going to let it go for at least 100 hours and will then will talk to them if there is no change (so far it's staying the same).   I did finally get my P5 in, and that did help somewhat, but did not solve the problem.  The only thing I can think of doing is to send the DAC in and ask them to listen to it and tell me if there is a problem or not.  I am certain on my unit coax is better than the bridge, and everyone I talk to about this says that on their units the bridge is clearly superior to coax.
> 
> Regarding the LCD-2.  I'm glad you think I went the right way on it.  I keep hearing raves on it, and people are saying that the aftermarket cable does make a difference.  I really did not want to spend the extra money either, but then again, I didn't want to wait a month before it became my turn to buy a pair, and I really need to get this harsh top-end issue resolved.  They should be here by the end of next week.


 


  RE: PWD
   
  My own suggestion/action would be to concisely outline the problem, visit their FAQ section and call tech support for online troubleshooting if needed. They may have solved a similar issue already. Or they could possibly solve yours without receiving the unit and then you could be the front-runner for others that may develop the same problem. Looking forward to your getting it resolved.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Just finished plugging in my WA-5!
> 
> 
> 
> Listening through speakers for a while at least until the tubes settle in.  I ordered with EML 5U4G and EML 300B but they are delayed, as of right now.  I am using Mullard ECC32 for my 6SN7s.  I'll give it some time and try to post some impressions.


 
  Didn't the WA5 ship in wooden crates in the past? It looks like yours shipped in cardboard boxes. It certainly makes for lighter shipping. And you may not need the help of your neighbor (or the UPS guy) to carry it into your listening room. They look beautiful dressed in black.


----------



## Skylab

Congrats Wedge, those sure look killer! Great amp, too, from what I have heard from it at meets.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> RE: PWD
> 
> My own suggestion/action would be to concisely outline the problem, visit their FAQ section and call tech support for online troubleshooting if needed. They may have solved a similar issue already. Or they could possibly solve yours without receiving the unit and then you could be the front-runner for others that may develop the same problem. Looking forward to your getting it resolved.


 

 Hmmmm, that is a thought.  Maybe I'll call them on Monday and see what's up.  Thanks.


----------



## shipsupt

I'll verify it tonight, but I believe that anything approaching 12 would be way to much with the 5le.  I think I'm at more like 9 or 10 normally.
   
  I don't have the HE-6 so I can't comment, better to stick with with Sillsally and others comments there. 
   
  I'll edit the post later to confirm my knob settings with the 5LE.
   

  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> When you are using the SE with the 5LE, is the volume knob still around the 10-12 hour mark?? With my 701s I never go above 12. Im just trying to get an idea for a future investment in some he5le's for my 6se... Sillysally said only wa5le could drive he6's...


----------



## WindyCityCy

I had Ken make my round chain mail with a 4-pin balanced connector and ordered a matching adapter so I could also use the headphones on my HA-160D.  An added bonus I hadn't planned for is that I can plug both my HD800 and LCD2 in at the same time on my WA22 now since one is a 4pin and the other is a 3pin balanced connection.  Nice to be able to swap back and forth for comparisons, etc.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I went ahead and ordered a pair of the LCD-2 from ALO.  I had to get their cable since they don't sell an LCD-2 with the stock cable.  I got a pair of balanced connectors with the round chain mail 8 foot cable.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Wow.  that's wootiful!
  
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> Just finished plugging in my WA-5!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Yeah I have a few more desirable tubes now.  I never really ever listened to Shuguangs ever before except at the meet and now at home.  They don't seem all that terrible but not really my cup of tea, I guess.  From what I'm hearing and mind you they barely have an hour on them, so far what I would want to change is the highs of them.  I don't believe what I'm hearing in the highs to be the work of the Mullards.  I had a temporary amp I was listening to for a while that had all sort of problems (sold my old amplifier the WA-5 replaced a month ago), so going to this is like heaven as opposed to bleh.  I need to get reacquainted with this level of sound again.


 
   
  Not that you will ever like them, but people say that the Shuguangs can take 200 hours to break in.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Just finished plugging in my WA-5!
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> Listening through speakers for a while at least until the tubes settle in.  I ordered with EML 5U4G and EML 300B but they are delayed, as of right now.  I am using Mullard ECC32 for my 6SN7s.  I'll give it some time and try to post some impressions.


 


  Lovely amp, just lovely. Unpacking one of Woo's creations is always a pleasure. Congratulations!


----------



## shipsupt

Of course selection of driving tubes has an effect... but nothing I tried is very comfortable at or past 12.
   
  With RCA 6EW7's anything from 10-12 is getting pretty loud. 
   
  With Sylvania 6CY7's things are getting loud around 10, 11 to 12 is getting to be too much.
   
  I'd confirm that I am typically listening somewhere around the 9 o'clock position depending on genre, recording, tube selection, etc...
   
  This is of course not a recommendation for optimum listening volume or tube selection for the 5LE's, just some examples of loudness to answer the OP's question.
   
  Headphones were connected to the high gain output and the rectifier was an EML 5U4G in both cases.
   
  From other post where folks mentioned needing close to max volume drive the HE-6 it appears they are indeed much harder to drive.  And of course, power is not the simple answer to getting good SQ...
   
   
   
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I'll verify it tonight, but I believe that anything approaching 12 would be way to much with the 5le.  I think I'm at more like 9 or 10 normally.
> 
> I don't have the HE-6 so I can't comment, better to stick with with Sillsally and others comments there.
> 
> I'll edit the post later to confirm my knob settings with the 5LE.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I had Ken make my round chain mail with a 4-pin balanced connector and ordered a matching adapter so I could also use the headphones on my HA-160D.  An added bonus I hadn't planned for is that I can plug both my HD800 and LCD2 in at the same time on my WA22 now since one is a 4pin and the other is a 3pin balanced connection.  Nice to be able to swap back and forth for comparisons, etc.


 


 Nice.


----------



## sillysally

Congrats *Wedge.*
   
  Do yourself one favor, don't get hung up on buying a lot of tubes like the Shugang. Don't take my word for it just look at some other folks that have the WA5/LE and what tubes they have sold. Folks don't sell there tubes because they really like them in a amp that they plan to keep, they sell them because they have tube's that they like better.
   
  In the case of the WA5/LE from what I have read and heard in my WA5LE the EML 5U4G's are the #1 choice for rectifier's, #2 is the TSRP oval mica 6SN7GT's drive tubes.
  #3 is the original WE300B's for Power tubes. However most everybody has gone to something like a Princess 300B solid plate 300B or EML 300B. The reason for that is simple the cost of a matched real nos set of original WE300B's is very high in most cases (took me 10 days of negotiating from a very reliable source), because of what the price is for these WE300B there is a very good chance you can get ripped off and this also applies to a lessor degree with the TSRP oval mica 6SN7GT's.
   
  Anyway kudos to Jack for holding the price of the WA5/LE where it is. All you have to do is look at what goes into the WA5/LE and compare it to the other Woo's in the price range of the WA5LE. Just ask Jack how many days it takes him to build the WA5/LE compared to other Woo's and you will find there is a big difference, plus the power supply that Jack uses for the WA5/LE.
   
  I am guessing that Jack's reason for now using a cardboard boxes and less parts for the upgrade package is to hold the price for the WA5/LE.


----------



## sillysally

@ Mike Malter, I am sorry to read about your problem with your  PS Audio PWD, I am guessing that you have a 30 day window for a return.
   
  Maybe in that time frame you may want to try a Oppo BDP-95 or at-least look at what it can do for you. I think you will find it can do what you want and a whole lot more.
  The 95 does have a balanced 2Ch R/L XLR ports for its dedicated 2Ch audio board and also RCA. For the two Ch side of the audio beard it uses a Sabre 9018 dac and stacks four dac per Ch, it also uses a separate Sabre 9018 dac for the MC 7.1 side of the audio board. It will play most any kind of audio format or video format, plus you can use the 95 with you WA22 and its great MC down-mix for movies and MC SACD's. imo the Sabre 9018 dac pairs very nicely with the Woo sound signature and also the DSP of the Oppo.
   
  Anyway for $2000 less it may be worth your time to read about.
   
  Good Luck.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> @ Mike Malter, I am sorry to read about your problem with your  PS Audio PWD, I am guessing that you have a 30 day window for a return.
> 
> Maybe in that time frame you may want to try a Oppo BDP-95 or at-least look at what it can do for you. I think you will find it can do what you want and a whole lot more.
> The 95 does have a balanced 2Ch R/L XLR ports for its dedicated 2Ch audio board and also RCA. For the two Ch side of the audio beard it uses a Sabre 9018 dac and stacks four dac per Ch, it also uses a separate Sabre 9018 dac for the MC 7.1 side of the audio board. It will play most any kind of audio format or video format, plus you can use the 95 with you WA22 and its great MC down-mix for movies and MC SACD's. imo the Sabre 9018 dac pairs very nicely with the Woo sound signature and also the DSP of the Oppo.
> ...


 

 Great breakdown. Thanks. I own a PWT and not the PWD. I've been considering the W4S DAC-2. The Oppo sounds like a very good contender as well. Ooooooo the options!


----------



## Wedge

Thank everyone for giving me a a nice and warm welcome to the Woo Audio owners club.  I really like what I'm hearing so far and I've got a few hours on the tubes now.  I figure I'll say a few a words.  I had the pleasure of meeting Jack recently, and it was a real pleasure to deal with him.
   
  @SillySally - I really wasn't going to go nuts over Shuguangs, I am waiting for EMLs and those are going to be my tubes, I might try EAT for the 300Bs later, but there was a delay in getting them so I have to use the Shuguangs for the time being.  I guess if I really want to I could afford some Western Electrics, but I don't really want to go looking any further than I have, I'll buy a pair when Westrex finally decides they are done moving factories around and give the new production a shot.  I also think for the price of the Western Electrics, I could buy a Leben or something else, which I also desire to do, which I would like to do.
   
  Personally, so far I love the amp, even though the amp hasn't burned in at all yet, my speakers have never sang like this.  Right out of the box I was able to hear an added depth to the sound stage.  I really am in love with the mid range, I feel like its nice and warm and just inviting me to sit back and listen all day, unfortunately its a busy weekend and I have to go out.  The bass is plentiful, and for the first time in a long while I have a quiet amp.  Simply put I'm very happy to become part of the Woo Audio owners club.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm now just waiting for my WA-22 to put into my office at work and the rest of my tube complement.  
   
  I know a lot of people don't really like the LCD-2 and WA-5 combo, but those are my main cans right now, so I guess I'll see for myself soon enough, I have plenty of drive tubes I can try out, so I might be able to get it work, but I'm sure others have tried.


----------



## Icenine2

Reporting in here w/new Wyred4Sound DAC2, re-terminated T-1's to single 4-pin XLR.
   
  1) Wyred4Sound DAC: Incredible!  At first I didn't have all setup as it should be in Windows 7/Foobar (once I got it to kernel stream).  Now that I do the sound is really good and nowhere near broken in (200 hours recommended).  I haven't heard some music sound this good in years.  The WA22 has really come into it's own w/the DAC in place now.  I know all you LCD boys talk about bass impact but the WA22/W4SDAC2/T-1 chain is killer and bass is more than impressive.
   
  2) Single 4-pin XLR re-terminate from TRS by Moon Audio.  The connection w/the WA22 is much better now.  I was having the loose issue w/the T-1's plug.  If wobbled I would get a drop of connection or channel.  Does it sound better?  I have no clue because I added the DAC at the same time.  It is a solid much better connection and cleaner than the 2 plug 3-pin XLR deal.
   
  3) I'm going to download J River.  W4S recommended it and Wavelength does too.  
   
  So after first visiting the Skylab Ranch (thanks again Rob!  You can all rest assured it is audio nirvana.) in late August to compare a Woo 6 vs Concerto SS I have landed here!  The torment of moving from a 6 to a 6SE, more reading........a 2 or a 22 or a 5LE?  The 5/5LE would have been great but a $$+death by wife syndrome ultimately.


----------



## Icenine2

Wedge,
   
  Welcome!  Incredible rig.  Staring at that color of 5 (music man's) is what got me started in the Woo-hood here.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I tried J-river for awhile but ended up sticking with Foobar as I could not hear a difference.  the J-river interface is pretty slick but I also ended up finding a nice skin for Foobar that took it up many notches in the usability area.  I'm glad you're liking the DAC2.  I'm very happy with it also.  Should serve its purpose for quite some time with all of the options it provides.  Congrats.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Reporting in here w/new Wyred4Sound DAC2, re-terminated T-1's to single 4-pin XLR.
> 
> 1) Wyred4Sound DAC: Incredible!  At first I didn't have all setup as it should be in Windows 7/Foobar (once I got it to kernel stream).  Now that I do the sound is really good and nowhere near broken in (200 hours recommended).  I haven't heard some music sound this good in years.  The WA22 has really come into it's own w/the DAC in place now.  I know all you LCD boys talk about bass impact but the WA22/W4SDAC2/T-1 chain is killer and bass is more than impressive.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Thought I'd share some waveform readouts from my new PS Audio P5.
   

   
  Voltage in is 123.
   

   
  Voltage out is 110
   

   
  The difference or the crud that is being filtered out by the P5.  Part of the difference is going from 123 volts to 110 volts.  But the interesting thing are the jagged edges, the waveform going in is malformed and the waveform coming out is not.  Last night I was getting voltage as high as 127.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Does you voltage out fluctuate much?  Mine does if I set it to say 115 or 110 like you have.  I see up to a 2v swing occassionally.  Also, I seem to always be 0.3v higher than what I have it set to (ie setting is 120v and actual is 120.3v).  Which mode do you use (low distortion or high regulation)?  Also, how about waveform?  I usually use multi vs sine.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thought I'd share some waveform readouts from my new PS Audio P5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

*Mike's breathing pattern before listening to his Woo 22.*


>


 

*Mike's Brainwaves as he's listening to his Woo 22.*


>


 
  
  YES! You're the Man!
  Boy I'd love to get a hold of one of those ^^^ along with one of these (LCD-2) AND one of this (Wyred4Sound DAC2).


----------



## Redcarmoose

Congrats Wedge!  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Your photos remind me why I almost went black!
   
   
  I remember how much fun it was to get those boxs home for the first time! Great memories.The slow experience of changing the support equipment around your Woo is a small hobby all to itself. The fact that the 5s respond to power cord changes and power conditioning is a complete world all to itself. Just the fact that these changes are so BIG and the relationship with the sound of the amp goes on for months on end, almost like a wife or girl friend.
   
  A true never ending life experience!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Does you voltage out fluctuate much?  Mine does if I set it to say 115 or 110 like you have.  I see up to a 2v swing occassionally.  Also, I seem to always be 0.3v higher than what I have it set to (ie setting is 120v and actual is 120.3v).  Which mode do you use (low distortion or high regulation)?  Also, how about waveform?  I usually use multi vs sine.


 

 My voltage will fluxuate the same.  Instead of higher, mine is usually lower so if I set it to 110 it will be 109.9.  I use low distortion.  I have not used multi.  Do you think it's ok to use multi with tubes?
   
  Also, what do you set your voltage at?
   
  What do you think of your P10, could you hear a difference?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> *Mike's breathing pattern before listening to his Woo 22.*
> 
> *Mike's Brainwaves as he's listening to his Woo 22.*


 

 Clayton, you are way too funny.  Yes, I think you are right about those labels.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Just finished plugging in my WA-5!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Congratulation *Wedge* on a great headphone amp choice, I myself have tried many different headphone amps and found my WA-5 the most involving sound producing amp that makes the music most real. I do agree with SillySally on tube choice, especially the WE-300B's if you can find a descent pair it is worth it.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Reporting in here w/new Wyred4Sound DAC2, re-terminated T-1's to single 4-pin XLR.
> 
> 1) Wyred4Sound DAC: Incredible!  At first I didn't have all setup as it should be in Windows 7/Foobar (once I got it to kernel stream).  Now that I do the sound is really good and nowhere near broken in (200 hours recommended).  I haven't heard some music sound this good in years.  The WA22 has really come into it's own w/the DAC in place now.  I know all you LCD boys talk about bass impact but the WA22/W4SDAC2/T-1 chain is killer and bass is more than impressive.
> 
> ...


 

 Like I have been saying the Sabre 9018 dac pairs very nicely with the Woo's. I am glad to hear that W4S has done a good job implementing the 9018 dac with there dsp.
   
  I hope for your sake that the wife doesn't read this thread, otherwise I my see you knocking at my door at 1 in the AM. If that happens make sure you bring your gear.


----------



## Wedge

Thanks again everyone for a warm welcome.
   
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Congratulation *Wedge* on a great headphone amp choice, I myself have tried many different headphone amps and found my WA-5 the most involving sound producing amp that makes the music most real. I do agree with SillySally on tube choice, especially the WE-300B's if you can find a descent pair it is worth it.


 

 I think for $3500ish I am going to take that money buy another amp and another set of cans for another purpose.  I hear that the EMLs are quite good and not sure I would need more than that at this point.  I need to spend some more money building up my sources as well.  I did already get a nice power cable, at least I think so.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Thanks again everyone for a warm welcome.
> 
> 
> I think for $3500ish I am going to take that money buy another amp and another set of cans for another purpose.  I hear that the EMLs are quite good and not sure I would need more than that at this point.  I need to spend some more money building up my sources as well.  I did already get a nice power cable, at least I think so.


 

 I didn't pay that much for the WE300B's, but you are right you can do a lot with whatever you pay for these 300B's. As it turned out the WE300B's are a perfect match (along with my other tubes) for my HE-6's because the WE300B's are a very powerful power tube and the hi to low magical mids of the WE300B really brings out the mids of the HE-6, the TSRP's brings out the bass slam along with the very smooth high, highs of the HE-6 and the EML 5U4Gs gives a very clear, fast, neutral sound along with complementing the sound stage/positing of the audio with the other tubes.
   
  As you may know the HE-6 is probably the hardest headphone to properly power. I asked Dr. Fang about my WA5LE and the tubes I have in it how well would my rig pair with the HE-6. His reply was Perfect, imo he was right on the money.


----------



## Wedge

I have honestly been looking for WE300B since before I ordered the amp.  The only pair that I have see so far are going for eBay for like $3500, and I don't really trust it.  I would really appreciate it if someone knew a source for them.  Tubeworld has 2 pairs and their asking around $4500 ish, I know they are an expensive place.  I have asked everyone I know that has tubes in their basement somewhere stashed, which will eventually be thrown out.  Also found a single tube on eBay for $1600 and a single tube on tube depot for $2000.  I checked audiogon and none there.  In a sense, if the prices when you bought them weren't that high, it seems they have gone there.  I'll keep poking around but I don't think WEs are in my future, unless they reopen the factory, but they won't be NOS at that point.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I have honestly been looking for WE300B since before I ordered the amp.  The only pair that I have see so far are going for eBay for like $3500, and I don't really trust it.  I would really appreciate it if someone knew a source for them.  Tubeworld has 2 pairs and their asking around $4500 ish, I know they are an expensive place.  I have asked everyone I know that has tubes in their basement somewhere stashed, which will eventually be thrown out.  Also found a single tube on eBay for $1600 and a single tube on tube depot for $2000.  I checked audiogon and none there.  In a sense, if the prices when you bought them weren't that high, it seems they have gone there.  I'll keep poking around but I don't think WEs are in my future, unless they reopen the factory, but they won't be NOS at that point.


 
  I got mine last summer from the Alabama Historical Radio Society. The founder worked most of his life at the Alabama WE plant that made the original 300B's.
   
  Here's a picture of some of the guys from the society, I think they took pity on me. If you can't trust these guys then who can you trust. I really did my home work.
  They even gave me burn-in instructions because these tubes were real NOS, complete test results that one of the guys in the picture did and I have never seen tubes so well protected and rapped, plus insured via priority mail. What a great bunch of guys, and I have a standing invitation to visit them if I ever get down there.


----------



## Wedge

Do you think they'll sell me a pair?
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I got mine last summer from the Alabama Historical Radio Society. The founder worked most of his life at the Alabama WE plant that made the original 300B's.
> 
> Here's a picture of some of the guys from the society, I think they took pity on me. If you can't trust these guys then who can you trust. I really did my home work.
> They even gave me burn-in instructions because these tubes where real NOS, complete test results that one of the guys in the picture did and I have never seen tubes so well protected and rapped, plus insured via priority mail. What a great bunch of guys, and I have a standing invitation to visit them if I ever get down there.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Do you think they'll sell me a pair?


 
  Send them a E-Mail. They had three sets of the nos WE's for sale I was the second enthusiast to respond and got one set,  the first guy got two two sets. They drilled me to make sure I was going to use the tubes not turn around and sell them for a big profit. Like I said it took me 10 days of E-Mails before they agreed to sell them to me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


>


 
  This photo is priceless. Thanks for sharing it. They certainly look like a great bunch of guys to hang out with. If I weren't into amps I'd certainly be into radios like those. Hum?


----------



## WindyCityCy

I pretty much leave the P10 set on 120v, low distortion, multiwave. 
   
  My status screen then looks like this most of the time
   
  voltage in = 124v          voltage out = 120.3v
  thd in = 3.7%                thd out = 0.7%
  power = 150-200W              load = 15% *** this line fluctuates some but I rarely exceed 25%
  current = 1.54-1.75a             freq = 60.0hz
  
  I really like the P10.  Immediately after plugging it in I felt like there was more authority with everything I played compared to the PPP it replaced.  Now that I've been using it for a couple of weeks I can't remember what the PPP sounded like.  I have moved that into my home theater so it's still getting good usage.  I'm glad I made the upgrade.  I have the following equipment plugged in to the P10
   
  WA22, W4S DAC2, SB Touch, Dell Precision M6500 laptop, Netgear switch, Klein + Hummell o300 powered speakers, Klein + Hummell o810 powered sub.  The sub and powered monitors do have some decent sized amps in them so getting the extra power of the P10 seems to be good for them.  Of course I rarely exceed 25% load capacity.
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> My voltage will fluxuate the same.  Instead of higher, mine is usually lower so if I set it to 110 it will be 109.9.  I use low distortion.  I have not used multi.  Do you think it's ok to use multi with tubes?
> 
> Also, what do you set your voltage at?
> 
> What do you think of your P10, could you hear a difference?


----------



## Wedge

Western Electric says they hope to begin production this year on tubes again.  So we will see maybe next year how they do.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The original Western Electric company is re-starting production?  Wow.  If the quality and sound is as good as the originals (and who says they can't make them even better?) then this is exciting for lots of people in this hobby.  Even though the chances are absolutely zero for obvious reasons part of me hopes they'll re-introduce the 421A to stop the price climb on the 5998 tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I pretty much leave the P10 set on 120v, low distortion, multiwave.
> 
> My status screen then looks like this most of the time
> 
> ...


 


 Windy,
   
  Paul McGowen says that the P10 has more of that "more authority" quality than the P5.  Thanks for sharing your metrics.  I have mine set the same way as yours.
   
  Right now I only have my WA22 and DAC plugged in.  At some point I may go back to my iPod, and then I'll plug in my Wadia i170 and Monarchy DIP.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The original Western Electric company is re-starting production?  Wow.  If the quality and sound is as good as the originals (and who says they can't make them even better?) then this is exciting for lots of people in this hobby.  Even though the chances are absolutely zero for obvious reasons part of me hopes they'll re-introduce the 421A to stop the price climb on the 5998 tubes.


 

 No I don't think it is the original WE, but they do own the rights to build the WE300B's and the logo. I think the company is called Westec or something like that. This company was making the remade WE300B tubes from the mid 80's till the early 2000's, i think. But those WE300B's are not the original Western Electric 300B's. From everything I have read from the folks that have both the original and the remade 300B's, the original is better.
   
  Some folks try and pass off the remade 300B's as the original Western Electric 300B's that were made in Alabama, so as I always say buyer beware. Mater of fact there are some WE 300B's out there that don't have date codes on them, what that means is that those tubes would not pass inspection and where sold under the table.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Windy,
> 
> Paul McGowen says that the P10 has more of that "more authority" quality than the P5.  Thanks for sharing your metrics.  I have mine set the same way as yours.
> 
> Right now I only have my WA22 and DAC plugged in.  At some point I may go back to my iPod, and then I'll plug in my Wadia i170 and Monarchy DIP.


----------



## Icenine2

Wives reading threads would be bad!!!  If I did come knocking on the door you'd never hear me with your phones on!!
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Like I have been saying the Sabre 9018 dac pairs very nicely with the Woo's. I am glad to hear that W4S has done a good job implementing the 9018 dac with there dsp.
> 
> I hope for your sake that the wife doesn't read this thread, otherwise I my see you knocking at my door at 1 in the AM. If that happens make sure you bring your gear.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Wives reading threads would be bad!!!  If I did come knocking on the door you'd never hear me with your phones on!!


 

 You are 100% right. The upside is I will not hear the wife either when she wants to know what the charge is for $999 from Oppo.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I should add that my man cave is the next room over from the front door, that is nice because I can see when my two teenage boys are coming and going. 
  Anyway would not be the first person to start knocking and waving at my man cave windows.


----------



## Wedge

My understanding was that Westrex implemented the same design as the original Western Electric, however I can not confirm that, another issue maybe that they use the same design but their process or materials quality could not mimic the original Western Electric.  It is sometimes the case that as technology improves "we" improve or what we think is a performance improvement, however in actual performance it is a step back, i.e. something might measure better, but actually sounds worse kind of thing.


----------



## SpudHarris

Just paid for my Brimar 5R4GY  from Langrex here in the UK, quite exited as I haven't rolled any tubes for ages....
   
  On that note, I may want to shed one of my 2 pairs of TS-BGRP's as neither set gets any air time at present (too much love for the ''Bad Boys'') and I'm trying to raise funds for something else, they are just gathering dust. They have the original boxes and test results if any of my Woomates are interested. Let me know via PM if so. If they aren't gone by weekend I'll probably put a classified up.


----------



## Wedge

WA-22 arrived today for my work office.  Still no EML 5U4Gs (I'm told in a couple of weeks), but I actually have some Tung-Sol 5U4GB and RCA 5U4G in my office for this guy.


----------



## brasewel

Damm...you listen through your WA22 at your workplace? Better make sure no one else touches it


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wedge said:


> WA-22 arrived today for my work office.  Still no EML 5U4Gs (I'm told in a couple of weeks), but I actually have some Tung-Sol 5U4GB and RCA 5U4G in my office for this guy.


 

 Looks really nice.  I had mine at a client site for a few months and people were so intimidated by the tubes that nobody touched it.


----------



## Wedge

Yeah, Jack drove a convincing argument for me to buy it for my office.  He didn't say anything, he just let me listen to it at the meet, for a while.  I was considering the RWA Isabellina with the Balanced output, but I ultimately bought the WA-22.  If you deal with Jack, you get to know that he is quite passionate about this stuff.  So I was considering a custom amp at first, but figured well, I'll buy the WA-22 and save a few bucks.  My work, is a strange place, but while not impossible for things to walk, I think that it would be harder than most places.


----------



## brasewel

Yea I was at the meet too and am really considering getting this. Jack is a great person and he allowed me to take over his equipment for atleast 45mins 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. To me the balanced Isabellina is a better amp but I'm guessing Vinnie is going to sell it for ~$3k which puts it out of my budget for now.


----------



## Wedge

I liked the Isabellina, but I didn't think that it is the better amp.  What I can say is that I am extremely happy with my purchases from Jack so far.


----------



## Icenine2

What was it with the Isabellina that made it a better amp?  This is the one w/the built in DAC?  I read somewhere in the site here it was going to be $2500.  Not a bad deal w/a DAC.  I dont' think it's asynch.  I still think for amps coming out the Cavalli Liquid Fire looks the most intersting.
  Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Yea I was at the meet too and am really considering getting this. Jack is a great person and he allowed me to take over his equipment for atleast 45mins
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## brasewel

Vinnie confirmed it will be more than $2500, I'm guessing it will be $3k+. His SE amp is currently selling for $2500. And yes it will come with a built-in dac. To me I thought it was the best sound I've heard coming from an amp.


----------



## Wedge

Well I have a WA-5 that I personally prefer to the RWA, it is real tough to beat the midrange magic of a 300B amp, especially once you get the right tubes.  I am still running Shuguangs, which I'm not a fan of but still sounds great.  I'm told its not a great synergy with the LCD-2 but really awesome with the HE-6.  I'll probably pick up a pair soon.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Just received my WA22!!!
  Very heavy and built like a tank.
  Will post pictures soon.
  Am using stock tubes to begin with.
  First time with a tube amp and therefore need some advice:
   
  Do I keep it on continuously in order to burn-in, or only for a certain number of hours
  Is it OK to let it burn-in overnight.
  How many hours will it take to really sparkle.
  Thanks


----------



## Wedge

Jack does not recommend leaving the amp on unattended.  It is also not recommended to turn turn tube amps on and off.  So once you turn it on I would leave it run for an hour, and don't let your amp run more than 8-10 hours straight.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Jack does not recommend leaving the amp on unattended.  It is also not recommended to turn turn tube amps on and off.  So once you turn it on I would leave it run for an hour, and don't let your amp run more than 8-10 hours straight.


 

 Thanks


----------



## K_19

Hey all,
   
  I'm in a mood for some more tube rolling and I was wondering if there are any good notable 6DE7 tubes other than the RCA and the GE ones. Mine is a prototype 6SE unit that is not compatible with a 6FD7/CY7 and other varieties unfortunately, and although 6EW7 is compatible It's not of my preference due to their weak bass response.
   
  Looking for something with a little more bottom end, to be specific. Anything other 6DE7's than RCA's that are well regarded? Sylvania, Tung sol and the like perhaps?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm in a mood for some more tube rolling and I was wondering if there are any good notable 6DE7 tubes other than the RCA and the GE ones. Mine is a prototype 6SE unit that is not compatible with a 6FD7/CY7 and other varieties unfortunately, and although 6EW7 is compatible It's not of my preference due to their weak bass response.
> 
> Looking for something with a little more bottom end, to be specific. Anything other 6DE7's than RCA's that are well regarded? Sylvania, Tung sol and the like perhaps?


 
  Fellow Head-fi member GroundZero swears by the Tung Sol 6DE7.  He sent them to me once so I could hear them for myself, and I found them impressive as well if you set aside the usual 6DE7 shortcomings (mainly the small soundstage and lack of space between notes).  They had great bass, way more low end presence and weight than my RCA 6DE7 can muster, with a nice balanced sound that isn't peaky which reminded me of better (i.e. older vintage) Sylvania tubes.  It actually didn't seem to have the Tung Sol "house sound" that I hear from all the Tung Sol tubes I have, but if they were a re-brand I do not know what they are a re-brand of.
   
  The bad part:  they are incredibly rare.  Both he and I searched many many sellers and could never come up with another pair aside from the set he originally found by coincidence.  They have the cross shaped larger plate that is common on the oldest vintage 6DE7s so it stands to reason few of them have survived at this point.  You might have better luck trying to "draw" better bass response out of the driver tubes you have by rolling rectifiers.  I've been able to pull fairly satisfying bass from the 6EW7 by using tubes such as the 5R4GY.


----------



## K_19

I recall seeing a Tung-Sol 6DE7 on ebay not too long ago...the problem was that the seller only had one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
   
  I've been using my Vintage RCA 6DE7 for my WA6 then my WA6SE for the past year and a half or so (with the EML 5U4G, a rectifier I'm very happy with), and was satisfied enough that I haven't had too much urge to tube roll.  Unfortunately they're getting up there in usage and I will need to track down some new ones from somewhere... I've also played around with the GE 6DE7 which I'm also very impressed with (excellent separation and soundstage presentation) except for their relative tameness in the bass area.  I think I'll go track down some Tung Sols if I can, although it seems that they'll be hard to find a pair on sale...
   
  Anyways, thanks for your input!


----------



## Skylab

The Sylvania black plate 6DE7 are also very nice.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Sylvania black plate 6DE7 are also very nice.


 


  Agreed. I'm using Sylvania black plate 6DE7s in my 6SE to drive LCD-2s and T1s. For Grados, I slightly prefer GE 6EW7s.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

How many hours will the WA22 (with stock tubes) need to get going


----------



## shipsupt

skylab said:


> The Sylvania black plate 6DE7 are also very nice.




On your previous recommendation I picked up a pair and hope to get them rolled in to my 6SE soon.

In the mean time I received a set of adapters from Glenn and I'm currently trying some Sylvania 6DN7's. So far I really like what I am hearing, thanks Glenn for the fine adapters and for the recommendation. I did some limited listening with the HE-5LE's and was immediately impressed with the punch and fullness of the sound,, but need to give them some more time to confirm that I'm not giving up details to the powerful lows. I'm not saying that is what I heard, but I've not listened enough to make the final call. I'm also burning in LCD-2's during the day on a SS rig and giving them some serious listening time at night on the Woo. No surprise to any of you how good it's sounding so far! Rectifier time has been split between the EML and Sophia.

Tonight I've been listening from another recent purchase, a Nuforce CDP-8 CD player. I've been in the market for a transport but needed/wanted it to fit into within a small foot print. I took a chance on this unit with limited reviews, and honestly I wasn't really looking for a source with a built in DAC. I noticed that a local shop is a dealer and I called on a whim to see if they had one in stock, bad move for the wallet. It's too early for me to really say, and I don't know if I truly have the ears for it, but some quick a/b'ing (easy enough with the switch on the 6SE inputs) between it and my trusty Stello left me unable to tell any difference in SQ, which leads me to believe that better or worse the differences when using the built in DAC are going to be quite subtle. I'm sure I'll post more when I've had some time to live with it. I am thinking, hoping, that it lives up to the limited positive hype it has received. Going in for an expensive CD player as a source was a hard decision to reach as I know it will always be splitting play time with my digital collection on the iMac.


----------



## SpudHarris

Is the Brimar 5R4GY a drop in replacement rectifier in the W6?
   
  Just got mine and dropped it in for only a few seconds and there was a constand audiable hum and music was very, very quiet. Or have I just got a bad tube??
   
  Edit: tried it again after a spray of Deoxit and it's just fine... Too early for detailed impressions but sounds quite nice so far.


----------



## jerico

I just grabbed a TungSol 5U4G from eBay ($17 BIN). 

Hey, you can never have enough tubes, right?


----------



## SpudHarris

That's right! haha...
   
  Well I just had a bit of a session with my £30 Brimar 5R4GY and I have to say I am mightily impressed. I would say it's somewhere between the Sophia Princess and EML 5U4G. It's good enough or interesting enough for me to pack away the EML for a while so I can test further.
   
  It's always nice when you get something quality for not a lot of cash, chuffed to bits with my purchase!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think that was the most satisfying part when I got mine, was the price paid.  I kept thinking "shouldn't people have discovered this tube and pushed the prices up past this by now" and was really glad that wasn't the case.
   
  I had to sand the pins on mine with steel wool.  They were shiny, but the actual metal was rough making it hard to push into the socket.  Afterwards there were no problems, and I always sand my pins anyway to get them bright again.
   
  My favorite thing about the Brimar is its vocal presentation, a very effortless and liquid sound without obscuring texture or detail.  The EML 274B has very dry vocals in comparison, thought it beats the brimar for sheer resolution and imaging by a considerable margin depending upon the tubes it is paired with.  The 5R4GY and 274B sound and look pretty similar when you think about it actually.  They both use hung filaments too.  Vocals on a 5R4 are slightly more forward than on a 274B which makes it a good choice for somebody who wants the bigger and more romantic sound but is used to the more forward vocals of a 5U4G.  In a number of ways it is the best of both worlds.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I just grabbed a TungSol 5U4G from eBay ($17 BIN).
> 
> Hey, you can never have enough tubes, right?


 


  This is still one of the best deals going in rectifiers.  Sounds good and the prices are quite low.  The 5U4G types place vocals too far forward for my tastes, but for the price paid I was still impressed with my Tung Sol.


----------



## jerico

I'm looking forward to trying it out!  I've got an EML 5U4G and a Princess.  I like the EML better with my T1s, and I like the EML with my LCD2s.  But for $17 it's fun to play around.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> That's right! haha...
> 
> Well I just had a bit of a session with my £30 Brimar 5R4GY and I have to say I am mightily impressed. I would say it's somewhere between the Sophia Princess and EML 5U4G. It's good enough or interesting enough for me to pack away the EML for a while so I can test further.
> 
> It's always nice when you get something quality for not a lot of cash, chuffed to bits with my purchase!


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think that was the most satisfying part when I got mine, was the price paid.  I kept thinking "shouldn't people have discovered this tube and pushed the prices up past this by now" and was really glad that wasn't the case.
> 
> I had to sand the pins on mine with steel wool.  They were shiny, but the actual metal was rough making it hard to push into the socket.  Afterwards there were no problems, and I always sand my pins anyway to get them bright again.
> 
> My favorite thing about the Brimar is its vocal presentation, a very effortless and liquid sound without obscuring texture or detail.  The EML 274B has very dry vocals in comparison, thought it beats the brimar for sheer resolution and imaging by a considerable margin depending upon the tubes it is paired with.  The 5R4GY and 274B sound and look pretty similar when you think about it actually.  They both use hung filaments too.  Vocals on a 5R4 are slightly more forward than on a 274B which makes it a good choice for somebody who wants the bigger and more romantic sound but is used to the more forward vocals of a 5U4G.  In a number of ways it is the best of both worlds.


 

 I bought what I think was the last Brimar 5r4gy that Upscale Audio had in stock a week or so ago ($50), and yes, it's very nice sounding in my WA22.   I tried to find a couple more for my Cary speaker amp after that.  I placed bids on a couple of these on ebay but they eventually went for over $100 each!   I guess people are catching on?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think it is more that Upscale Audio has a sense of decency.  If you look through the listings there are a number of tubes there they sell for around half the price they go for on eBay, though this is for "driver grade" and not the premium ones they screen for pre-amp use.  Very few eBay sellers do that kind of screening anyway so it is still a fair comparison.  When was the last time you saw VT-231 Sylvania and Ken-Rad 6SN7 for a hundred dollars a pair on eBay?  The buy it now auctions are usually over $200.  I keep an eye on their site now in case they list something new I would be interested in.


----------



## jamato8

ebay used to be fun as you could get some tubes at reasonable prices to very good prices. I once got a GZ34 metal base for 20 dollars. I was sure it was going to go crazy on the bidding (this was about 8 years ago) but I guess everyone else did also, so no one bid! 
   
  Well that was then and while you can still get a good deal occasionally, it isn't near the fun it used to be.


----------



## Groundzero

k_19 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm in a mood for some more tube rolling and I was wondering if there are any good notable 6DE7 tubes other than the RCA and the GE ones. Mine is a prototype 6SE unit that is not compatible with a 6FD7/CY7 and other varieties unfortunately, and although 6EW7 is compatible It's not of my preference due to their weak bass response.
> 
> Looking for something with a little more bottom end, to be specific. Anything other 6DE7's than RCA's that are well regarded? Sylvania, Tung sol and the like perhaps?




Xcalibur summed it up pretty well. The Tung Sol 6DE7 are indeed fantastic tubes, if you can find them. The only thing I want to add is that I find them to separate notes very, very well for a 6DE7. We have different Woos, 6SE vs. 6, so the added separation could be purely amp related. Personally I prefer a warmer, less airy, more romantic sound and they fit the bill perfectly
. When I bought a Tung Sol 5U4G and paired it with them it was so good that I sold my Sophia 274B. The bass is down-right head rattling, but doesn't overpower the other aspects of the music. Most importantly, they are absolutely free of harshness. Even the lowest quality recordings of the most peaky songs are smoothed out by these tubes. 

Until very recently I actually preferred them over all the 6SN7 I have tried, including Tung Sol mouse ears, RCA vt231 grey glass, and Ken Rad vt231 black glass. The only 6SN7 to beat them so far are the Brimar brown bases with clear glass that I purchased from Upscale Audio. The Brimars, to put it simply, are the closest 6SN7 equivalent to the Tung Sol 6DE7 that I have found so far. The Brimar's bass isn't quite as visceral as the Tung Sols, but is powerful nonetheless. 

Oh and by the way, with a couple capacitor changes your 6SE should be able to take 6FD7 and 6SN7 with adapters. That goes for the production model at least, I'm not positive about a prototype. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the amp innards can chime in.

 Regarding 6CY7, don't bother. I have a pair of Tung Sol 6CY7 and they aren't anything special.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I found myself wondering the other night why nobody talks about the 6DR7.  This is what Jack sells on the WA6 page now, and a quick eBay check reveals they are much more plentiful than the 6DE7, 6EW7 or 6CY7.  Like the 6CY7 it is high gain and sits in between the 6DE7 and 6EW7 in presentation according to some old posts on the subject.  I too though the 6CY7 was a turd, just completely devoid of any control or refinement, but the 6DR7 might be a good alternative for users who don't like the idea of adapters.


----------



## emremusic

Dac Recommendation for Wa6se max...
   
  I currently own an apogee duet, I had been very happy with it, but now apogee is coming with a new duet that has a higher sampling rate.
   
  I looked at DAC choices out there, and I dont know where to begin. Does anyone have any recommendations for Dacs that would go well with my Woo 6se?


----------



## mikemalter

Just got my LCD-2 with the Chain Mail cable from ALO and have a few first impressions having paired it with my WA22.  I don't know what the breaking profile of these 'phones are, but I am assuming I'm going to have to put a few hours on them before they begin to shine, anybody care to venture a range they found for themselves?
   
  Hour One:

 The mid-range is fuller than my HD800.
 I can hear more detail, and the detail is crisp and not harsh or with glare.
 My glasses are worn more comfortably with the padding.  NOTE: When I opened the box, I thought wow, my ears are going to have to fit in THAT!  The ear holes seemed a little small to me as I was more accustomed to the larger ear holes with the HD800.
 The look heavy, but seem very light on my head and they are comfortable.
 The soundstage is not as big as the HD800
   
  That's it for now.  For a just out of the box experience, they are very good.  Will post more in a few hours.
   
  And, for your LCD-2 owners out there, how long did they take until they started to break in?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is still one of the best deals going in rectifiers.  Sounds good and the prices are quite low.  The 5U4G types place vocals too far forward for my tastes, but for the price paid I was still impressed with my Tung Sol.


 

 Can you explain what electrical properties in a rectifier would result in the vocals "moving" in the sound stage from one tube to another?


----------



## clowkoy

Hello!
  I received my LCD-2 today and I will be using it with my W006. I have a couple of questions. On the impedance switch on the back of the amp, can I leave it at "high" impedance setting in order to get more power? Will it harm the amp? I am already using 6FD7 as power tubes.
  Thank you in advance.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Hello!
> I received my LCD-2 today and I will be using it with my W006. ...


 

 Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Just got my LCD-2 with the Chain Mail cable from ALO and have a few first impressions having paired it with my WA22. ...


 

 Congratulations to the both of you. How long did you all have to wait for your orders to arrive? Not that I'm thinking about getting one or anything like that.


----------



## jc9394

Mike, I did not notice any change on the LCD-2 at all. Maybe too subtle to notice the difference, however tube rolling is extreme fun with them. Much more noticable than HD800.

^^^. There is no harm using LCD-2/WA6 on high impedance at all, that was what I used before. The best tube combo are 6FD7 with EML 5U4G.


----------



## jc9394

Come on Clayton, you know you want one.


----------



## shipsupt

I can relate to a few of your comments having just having received my LCD's this week.
   
  3.  Interesting, I found that they are one of my worst headphones with glasses.  They're not terrible, but noticable enough that I want to take get my glasses off when I have them on.  I could not agree more about being surprised at the "ear opening", ha, I'm not sure how I didn't notice that at the meet audition, but I had the exact same shock when I noticed it during the opening.
  4.  I do find them heavy.  I expected that I'd stop noticing it, but I still do.  This really suprises me.  But for me, it's like a fine watch, the heavy feeling on my wrist is not a bad thing, it let's me know I'm wearing a serious watch.  Of course, none of this helps or hurts, SQ, but the weight is not something that is making me enjoy them any less, and it's not providing discomfort.
   
  I am interested to hear what others say about the break in.  My early obervation is that I have noticed a significant change in just the 50+ hours of break in.  For me, this headphone more than any of my others, seems like it is benefitting and showing change from burn in.  I'm interested to see how it progresses... I expect many will say that it's going to take hundreds of hours to really get there.  

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got my LCD-2 with the Chain Mail cable from ALO and have a few first impressions having paired it with my WA22.  I don't know what the breaking profile of these 'phones are, but I am assuming I'm going to have to put a few hours on them before they begin to shine, anybody care to venture a range they found for themselves?
> 
> Hour One:
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Come on Clayton, you know you want one.


 

 ALL RIGHT, I DO! So....
  Should I go ahead with the folks at ALO Audio and their custom-made cable or go directly to the Audez'e people. Anyway, while I was perusing the aloaudio.com site I got distracted for a moment by the Ultrasone Edition 8. Now WHAT?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got my LCD-2 with the Chain Mail cable from ALO and have a few first impressions having paired it with my WA22.  I don't know what the breaking profile of these 'phones are, but I am assuming I'm going to have to put a few hours on them before they begin to shine, anybody care to venture a range they found for themselves?
> 
> Hour One:
> 
> ...


 

 Nice, I agree with your impressions. I think it may more about breaking you in, as the presentation is so radically different from the LCD-2 than from the HD800. They are both fantastic matches with the WA22 but the challenge is to find a tube combo that optimizes both headphones. Happy listening!~


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ALL RIGHT, I DO! So....
> Should I go ahead with the folks at ALO Audio and their custom-made cable or go directly to the Audez'e people. Anyway, while I was perusing the aloaudio.com site I got distracted for a moment by the Ultrasone Edition 8. Now WHAT?


 


  If I do it over again, I will go thru the ALO route.  No line no waiting and plus a kick ass cable.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice, I agree with your impressions. *I think it may more about breaking you in*, as the presentation is so radically different from the LCD-2 than from the HD800. They are both fantastic matches with the WA22 but the challenge is to find a tube combo that optimizes both headphones. Happy listening!~


 
   
  Totally agree, that is why I said there is not much change on the LCD-2 break in.

 Power, the TS 5998 is the king.
  Drive, for some reason here, I do like the Treasures or the Brimar CV1988.  I think the TS BGRP is too smooth for LCD-2
  Rectifier, NOS GZ34 or EML 5U4G


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Hello!
> I received my LCD-2 today and I will be using it with my W006. I have a couple of questions. On the impedance switch on the back of the amp, can I leave it at "high" impedance setting in order to get more power? Will it harm the amp? I am already using 6FD7 as power tubes.
> Thank you in advance.


 

 Yes, consensus seems to indicate that Woo's high impedance setting works best with the LCD-2 and I agree out of my WA22.

  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I can relate to a few of your comments having just having received my LCD's this week.
> 
> 3.  Interesting, I found that they are one of my worst headphones with glasses.  They're not terrible, but noticable enough that I want to take get my glasses off when I have them on.  I could not agree more about being surprised at the "ear opening", ha, I'm not sure how I didn't notice that at the meet audition, but I had the exact same shock when I noticed it during the opening.
> 4.  I do find them heavy.  I expected that I'd stop noticing it, but I still do.  This really suprises me.  But for me, it's like a fine watch, the heavy feeling on my wrist is not a bad thing, it let's me know I'm wearing a serious watch.  Of course, none of this helps or hurts, SQ, but the weight is not something that is making me enjoy them any less, and it's not providing discomfort.
> ...


 

 3. Do you have an early set? I noticed the clamping more against my glasses/temples on my first LCD-2.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ALL RIGHT, I DO! So....
> Should I go ahead with the folks at ALO Audio and their custom-made cable or go directly to the Audez'e people. Anyway, while I was perusing the aloaudio.com site I got distracted for a moment by the Ultrasone Edition 8. Now WHAT?


 

 The Ed8 has a lot in common with the LCD-2, mainly from a versatility standpoint. But ergonomically they couldn't be more different.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Can you explain what electrical properties in a rectifier would result in the vocals "moving" in the sound stage from one tube to another?


 

 I'm afraid that is beyond my knowledge on the subject.  An electrical engineer who has designed tube amps could probably explain why the various voltages affect presentation, but I think for our part it is a matter of finding the tube type that best suits your personal listening preferences.  As a generalization when I listen to a 5U4G the vocals seem to be in front of the instruments, as though you are sitting right in front of the stage.  With a 5R4GY both vocals and instrumental seem to share the same plane more or less, as though are front-middle hall.  The 274B seems to place the vocals slightly behind the instruments, as if you were standing middle-back in the hall.  Everybody tends to have a preference for what sounds best to them, who no answer being "right."


----------



## Wedge

I enjoy using the Mullard ECC32 with the Tung-Sol 7236.  I had a bad buying experience with the 5998, left a sour taste in my mouth.


----------



## shipsupt

I can only assume they are late edition... ordered about a month ago, received this week.  Serial number also fits in with newer deliveries.
   

  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> 3. Do you have an early set? I noticed the clamping more against my glasses/temples on my first LCD-2.


----------



## clowkoy

Thanks for the reply grokit.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes, consensus seems to indicate that Woo's high impedance setting works best with the LCD-2 and I agree out of my WA22.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Thanks for the reply grokit.


 

 x2. Yes. Thank you very much, grokit.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Totally agree, that is why I said there is not much change on the LCD-2 break in.
> 
> Power, the TS 5998 is the king.
> Drive, for some reason here, I do like the Treasures or the Brimar CV1988.  I think the TS BGRP is too smooth for LCD-2
> Rectifier, NOS GZ34 or EML 5U4G


 


 Interesting on your choice of tubes.
   
  My back story is that I had to do something after getting the PWD/bridge and replacing my DLIII and Monarchy DIP.  From my experience music via the PWD/bridge was like razor blades against my ears, there was way too much on the top end.  Not sure if the PWD/bridge was that much more revealing or what was going on.  So right now I have stepped back a bit from the razor blade music to something that is getting to be close to listenable.  Case in point.  In Paquito D'Rivera's, A Night in Tunesia the cut was unlistenable.  The clarinet hurt my ears.  Now, not only can I hear the clicks of the keyworks as the artist strikes them during play, the woodiness of the clarinet comes through instead of a high pitched shrill sound.
   
  However, your thinking about tubes is interesting to me and after a few days I'll start moving some tubes around.  But now I think a little "too smooth" is just what the doctor ordered.  As I move tubes around I'll post back JC.  Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I can only assume they are late edition... ordered about a month ago, received this week.  Serial number also fits in with newer deliveries.


 

 Duh, you mentioned that on the first line, sorry. Some early owners reported success loosening the clamp by bending the headband outward down where it meets the blocks if you think that your hat size may be an issue.


----------



## shipsupt

Are you saying I have a big head!! 
   
  Just kidding.
   
  Good tip.  Generally I find that it's not really a clamping force issue (example, my HD 600 can feel like its claming) in the case of the LCD's, it's more of a feeling that the pads give over the glasses.  Maybe it has to do with the leather and padding combination. 
   
  In fact, I find the fit of the headphones in general pretty loose.  Again, I don't find this to be a problem, just something I notice more than say on my Denon or HiFiMAN.  For now I'll hold off since it's not really bothering me.... yet...
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote:


grokit said:


> Duh, you mentioned that on the first line, sorry. Some early owners reported success loosening the clamp by bending the headband outward down where it meets the blocks if you think that your hat size may be an issue.


----------



## jerico

Mike - you may find that the ALO cable needs more breaking than the LCD2s themselves.
   
  I found the LCD2/WA22 combo to be pretty picky about tubes too.  Not a bad thing IMHO - it seems the combo is responsive to tube changes.
   
  Enjoy them!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> In Paquito D'Rivera's, A Night in Tunesia the cut was unlistenable.  The clarinet hurt my ears.  Now, not only can I hear the clicks of the keyworks as the artist strikes them during play, the woodiness of the clarinet comes through instead of a high pitched shrill sound.
> 
> However, your thinking about tubes is interesting to me and after a few days I'll start moving some tubes around.  But now I think a little "too smooth" is just what the doctor ordered.  As I move tubes around I'll post back JC.  Thanks for the suggestions.


 

 The line between too bright and too smooth is a very fine one indeed, one I find seems to move around depending upon the night and what mood I'm in.  Sometimes I console myself by saying that if we actually did achieve our perfect sound all that would eventually come of it was boredom.  It's the evolution of the system and its presentation that helps keep things exciting, don't you agree?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Mike - you may find that the ALO cable needs more breaking than the LCD2s themselves.
> 
> I found the LCD2/WA22 combo to be pretty picky about tubes too.  Not a bad thing IMHO - it seems the combo is responsive to tube changes.
> 
> Enjoy them!


 

 Thanks for the tip on the cable, that is good to know and makes sense.
   
  What tubes do you like in your WA22 that play well with the LCD-2?


----------



## sillysally

From what I am reading it sounds like the Schiit Lyr may be a better match for your LCD-2's, the biggest reason that is given is that the LCD-2's are on the dark side and need the power of something like the Lyr to remove same, unless of course you have a WA5/LE.
   
  The LCD-2 or better yet the HE-6 are amazing headphones but for whatever reason they seem to need a lot of power and also need to be balanced with not only power but watts and Ohm's. Even with a WA5/LE it seems that the power 300B tube make a difference, with the harder to drive HE-6's, muiscman59 likes using the high amp jack on his WA5/LE as where I find using the low imp jack on my WA5LE gives better depth with the HE-6. Musicman59 uses different power tubes than I and as he suggested, that because my power tubes are very powerful that may be the reason why I don't need to use the high imp jack for my HE-6's.
   
  As Xcalibur255 suggest Tube rolling does keep things from getting dull, but on the other hand looking for the holy grail of tubes I found myself spending 50% of my time with my WA6SE tube rolling and never finding the holy grail of tubes for the audio I like. You may ask why 50%, its because you really should let your Woo and tubes cool down for at least one hour before rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So for me its a catch 22.


----------



## Wedge

I have a regular WA-5 and WA-22, although I listen to my WA-22 more with the LCD-2s because it is at work.  I really think the WA-22 works fine with the LCD-2, but you have to use the 7236 or the 5998 for the extra power, I listened for a while with the 6080 at the NY meet and I thought the amp needed more juice for the LCD-2s.  I tried the 5998 but I suspect I had bad tubes because the sound was just muddy, they tested fine in a tester, but oh well.  I am using the 7236 and find I never need to go past 12 for a more than satisfying volume.  I have said in other posts that I am using ECC32s currently, but I also tried with TSRP.  I found the TSRP to be more airy than the ECC32, but I find that ECC32 has more bass impact and a richer/warmer sound.  As a rectifier I am using an RCA 5U4G.  I am waiting for my new power tubes for my WA-5, so I can really only go by the Shuguangs that came with it, which I don't think are all that great.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> From what I am reading it sounds like the Schiit Lyr may be a better match for your LCD-2's, the biggest reason that is given is that the LCD-2's are on the dark side and need the power of something like the Lyr to remove same, unless of course you have a WA5/LE.
> 
> The LCD-2 or better yet the HE-6 are amazing headphones but for whatever reason they seem to need a lot of power and also need to be balanced with not only power but watts and Ohm's. Even with a WA5/LE it seems that the power 300B tube make a difference, with the harder to drive HE-6's, muiscman59 likes using the high amp jack on his WA5/LE as where I find using the low imp jack on my WA5LE gives better depth with the HE-6. Musicman59 uses different power tubes than I and as he suggested, that because my power tubes are very powerful that may be the reason why I don't need to use the high imp jack for my HE-6's.
> 
> ...


 

 I think headphones more on the dark side are more to my liking given my environment.  I'm going to let the phones and the new cable settle in for a while, and once everything settles down, I'm going to move some tubes around. 
   
  Right now I am running with the GEC 6AS7G, TSRP 6NS7G and EML5U4G, and that has always been the smoothest and richest combination before I got my PWD/bridge in the mix.
   
  I've heard that the Treasures are good for the LCD-2 as are the Sylvania 7236.  My volume control is at three clicks for the LCD-2 which is the same for the HD800.  I may hit the 4th click, but then I have to dial back a bit on the PWD volume.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I think headphones more on the dark side are more to my liking given my environment.  I'm going to let the phones and the new cable settle in for a while, and once everything settles down, I'm going to move some tubes around.
> 
> Right now I am running with the GEC 6AS7G, TSRP 6NS7G and EML5U4G, and that has always been the smoothest and richest combination before I got my PWD/bridge in the mix.
> 
> I've heard that the Treasures are good for the LCD-2 as are the Sylvania 7236.  My volume control is at three clicks for the LCD-2 which is the same for the HD800.  I may hit the 4th click, but then I have to dial back a bit on the PWD volume.


 
  Yes that is the fun of are amps is trying to find the holy grail, and of course it is all about what you like best.
  All I am saying is why have to settle or compromise for what you like, and that was the problem I had with my WA6SE and to some degree my WA5LE with my Treasures.
   
  Understand also with headphones like the LCD-2 or the HE-6, its not about where you place your volume control, that's a given if you can't hear your headphones at a volume you like then the headphones are worthless. My WA6SE and my WA5LE are both about the same for volume settings but the problem with the HE-6 and the WA6SE is the HE-6 just sounds like most any headphone, not much depth, sound-stage, life, bass, highs to lows, ect. With my WA6SE and my HD-800's my WA6SE sounds great and blows away my HE-6's. On the other hand with my WA5LE and HE-6's they blow away my HD-800's, but that is not to say my HD-800's don't sound great with my WA5LE because they do.
  This was the point I first made when the HE-6's came out and some of the boys on that thread are still trying to find a great amp to power the HE-6's.
   
  Also as you are pointing out (I think) its just not about tube rolling, there are other factors involved, like DAC/DSP, source player, ect.


----------



## grokit

As far as volume goes on these three headphones, Mike is correct that the HD800 and LCD-2 have roughly equivalent amping requirements; the HE-6 is in another league entirely and benefits from K1000-type power levels which is why they respond so well to the WA5. From the headphones I have owned the HE-6 and KK need the most power, followed closely by the HE-5/LE and then the K701/2; the HD800 and LCD-2 rank significantly below those even if they are harder to drive than many other traditional dynamic headphones. I have read reports of great synergy between the LCD-2 and the WA22 with the higher-gain power tubes, but also that the HE-6 needs more than what the WA22 has to offer even then; I can offer my own confirmation of both of these points.


----------



## sillysally

Comparing the LCD-2 and the HD-800's are apples and oranges, the LCD-2 is a 50 ohm ortho headphone and the HD-800 is a 300 ohm headphone, at least for power requirements. That is why I gave the example of volume levels using the HD-800. I was talking about the LCD-2 being a little dark and from what I know the Lyr helps to remove the darkness, however in Mikes case he likes it so it's a non issue for him. Yes I agree the HE-6 is even harder to properly power than the LCD-2 but still the same considerations apply for both of these orthos, it is just that the LCD-2 is easier to match a proper power supply amp than the HE-6.
  If you want just go over to Lyr thread and read about it.
   
  However imo unlike the HE-6 the WA22 can power the LCD-2 and as you said it would have to come from the right tubes in the WA22, but there lies the problem in matching the right tubes to properly power the LCD-2 and also the tonal quality's you like.
   
  My whole point is that its not were your volume knobs sets with these orthos, its being properly powered that is a big factor.
   
  So in a way I think we all agree to some degree about how to properly power a ortho headphone for the sound each one of us likes.


----------



## Wedge

I can agree with SillySally, I think having to use the 7236 and their are really only 2 choices for them that I know of Sylvania and Tung-Sol and only 1 choice for the 5998, Tung-Sol, it kind of limits the different sound characteristic combinations, but I think you can still fair extremely well, since the 6SN7 type has so many different choices.  These tubes though get very expensive, very quickly.


----------



## jerico

Hi Mike - for my WA22/LCD2 combo, I use Chatham 2399 (Tung Sol 5998) with Ken-Rad VT231 and EML 5U4G.  I have a couple of 7236 tubes around too - the Syvlania upgrade from Woo, and a Tung Sol metal base - and I don't care for them.  I can't put my finger on exactly why - they have plenty of gain and all, but I find them to sound a little "condensed".
   
  I also prefer the WA22 on the low imp setting with the LCD2s.  I feel like the bass gets a little flappy on the high setting (though the soundstage seems a smidge wider on high).


----------



## mikemalter

I think I see what SillySally is saying.  And I also get where Grokit is coming from.  I think Grokit is looking at an end result and comparing the enjoyment of it, irregardless of type, which in the end we all want a quality musical experience.  I think I understand what SS is saying in that it is not two or three clicks to get the same volume, but because of the properties of the LCD-2, the power output of the tubes has much to do with how it will sound.
   
  I do have a pair of the Sylvania 7236's and those put out a lot of power, so when it all settles down, I'm going to roll every tube I have and listen for how they influence the final outcome.
   
  I am also experiencing what Grokit refers to when he writes about the synergy between the LCD-2 and WA22.  At this early stage of breakin I am finding a certain organic naturalness to the experience.  For me that audio nirvana arrives when the tonality of the instruments sound natural and real, and there is nothing out of sorts and then it's just music.  It's like that old '50's song, "Put another nickel in, nickel in that loadein, all I want to hear again is music, music, music."


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hi Mike - for my WA22/LCD2 combo, I use Chatham 2399 (Tung Sol 5998) with Ken-Rad VT231 and EML 5U4G.  I have a couple of 7236 tubes around too - the Syvlania upgrade from Woo, and a Tung Sol metal base - and I don't care for them.  I can't put my finger on exactly why - they have plenty of gain and all, but I find them to sound a little "condensed".
> 
> I also prefer the WA22 on the low imp setting with the LCD2s.  I feel like the bass gets a little flappy on the high setting (though the soundstage seems a smidge wider on high).


 

 Thanks Jerico.  I think sometime next week I'll be in a position to start rolling some tubes.


----------



## Golfnutz

Finally, I've received my Oppo BDP-95. Using a truly balanced signal from beginning to end has changed the number of volts from something like 1.3 to 2.6. I've had to reduce the volume setting by at least 4-5 clicks. For anyone considering the 95, it integrates very well with the WA22 - they match up nicely to each other. I have it directly connected to the WA22. The level of detail is really unbelievable.


----------



## mikemalter

Nice.  Yeah, balanced increases the volume a bit.  Glad to year you are liking it.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I can agree with SillySally, I think having to use the 7236 and their are really only 2 choices for them that I know of Sylvania and Tung-Sol and only 1 choice for the 5998, Tung-Sol, it kind of limits the different sound characteristic combinations, but I think you can still fair extremely well, since the 6SN7 type has so many different choices.  These tubes though get very expensive, very quickly.


 
  Yes that is what I am saying.
  
   


  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I think I see what SillySally is saying.  And I also get where Grokit is coming from.  I think Grokit is looking at an end result and comparing the enjoyment of it, irregardless of type, which in the end we all want a quality musical experience.  I think I understand what SS is saying in that it is not two or three clicks to get the same volume, but because of the properties of the LCD-2, the power output of the tubes has much to do with how it will sound.
> 
> I do have a pair of the Sylvania 7236's and those put out a lot of power, so when it all settles down, I'm going to roll every tube I have and listen for how they influence the final outcome.
> 
> I am also experiencing what Grokit refers to when he writes about the synergy between the LCD-2 and WA22.  At this early stage of breakin I am finding a certain organic naturalness to the experience.  For me that audio nirvana arrives when the tonality of the instruments sound natural and real, and there is nothing out of sorts and then it's just music.  It's like that old '50's song, "Put another nickel in, nickel in that loadein, all I want to hear again is music, music, music."


 

 Yes you are correct that is what I am saying. Your WA22 and LCD-2 orthos should be a very nice combo you just simply have to find the right combo of tubes as Wedge seem to have found. Orthos are a different bread of headphone and as I said some of the boys that do know what they are doing are having a hard time properly amping the HE-6's.
   


  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Finally, I've received my Oppo BDP-95. Using a truly balanced signal from beginning to end has changed the number of volts from something like 1.3 to 2.6. I've had to reduce the volume setting by at least 4-5 clicks. For anyone considering the 95, it integrates very well with the WA22 - they match up nicely to each other. I have it directly connected to the WA22. The level of detail is really unbelievable.


 
  Yes the detail is wonderful with the 95 and its Sabre 32 ES9018 Dac's, and I think you will find the 95 to be a great match for your Woo and add a new dimension to your WA22.


----------



## WindyCityCy

MIke  - give the LCD2 some time to break in.  I think they sound great with the same tubes I use for the HD800.  At first I didn't feel that way.  You should start to notice things settling in around 50 hours.  I use GEC 6AS7G, Nation Union drivers, and EML 5U4G with great success.  I do prefer the high impedence setting.  Initially I didn't, but after the LCD2 were broken in a bit the high setting started to sound better to my ears with the ALO balanced silver/copper cable.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> MIke  - give the LCD2 some time to break in.  I think they sound great with the same tubes I use for the HD800.  At first I didn't feel that way.  You should start to notice things settling in around 50 hours.  I use GEC 6AS7G, Nation Union drivers, and EML 5U4G with great success.  I do prefer the high impedence setting.  Initially I didn't, but after the LCD2 were broken in a bit the high setting started to sound better to my ears with the ALO balanced silver/copper cable.


 

 That's great that you have found a combo that suits both headphones. When I had the HD800 I hadn't really gotten a handle on tube rolling yet but now that I am starting to I have settled on my favorite combo for the LCD-2, the 5998s combined with the Sophia Princess and either the TSRP or a TS 6F8/VT-99 with Glenn's adapters. The EML 5U4G was very nice as well but with the Sylvania 7236 power tubes instead until it prematurely fizzled, gonna have to deal with that but I am very pleased with the Sophia/5998 combo.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's great that you have found a combo that suits both headphones. When I had the HD800 I hadn't really gotten a handle on tube rolling yet but now that I am starting to I have settled on my favorite combo for the LCD-2, the 5998s combined with the Sophia Princess and either the TSRP or a TS 6F8/VT-99 with Glenn's adapters. The EML 5U4G was very nice as well but with the Sylvania 7236 power tubes instead until it prematurely fizzled, gonna have to deal with that but I am very pleased with the Sophia/5998 combo.


 

 Grokit,
   
  Did you have a breakin period for your LCD-2's?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> A From the headphones I have owned the HE-6 and KK need the most power, followed closely by the HE-5/LE and then the K701/2; the HD800 and LCD-2 rank significantly below those even if they are harder to drive than many other traditional dynamic headphones.


 

 The part about the K701 piqued my interest.  Their reputation for being hard to drive is widespread, but you really feel they are that bad?  My WA6 doesn't seem to struggle with them, aside from slightly tepid dynamics with some tubes, though it does exhibit audible strain if you go deep into the volume past about 2 o'clock which is well beyond where I listen to them anyway.  Only while listening to piano solos (which I do like to listen to loud on occasion) does the amp feel like it cannot deliver what I'm asking of it sometimes.


----------



## Golfnutz

I also forgot to mention, the difference between the balanced vs unbalanced connection between the WA22 and BDP-95 is quite significant. I know this is contrary to what some members believe over at AVS. I have both male and female Cardas adapters at both ends of my balanced cables to allow me to compare. The BDP-83 was actually very good, however the 95 really is on another level. I also hope someone (eventually) who owns the W4S-DAC2 ends up buying the BDP-95 and compares the SQ with and without the W4S-DAC2 in the chain.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Finally, I've received my Oppo BDP-95. Using a truly balanced signal from beginning to end has changed the number of volts from something like 1.3 to 2.6. I've had to reduce the volume setting by at least 4-5 clicks. For anyone considering the 95, it integrates very well with the WA22 - they match up nicely to each other. I have it directly connected to the WA22. The level of detail is really unbelievable.


 

 You are correct. Going from single ended to fully balanced increases the output 3db so basically doubles the output.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> MIke  - give the LCD2 some time to break in.  I think they sound great with the same tubes I use for the HD800.  At first I didn't feel that way.  You should start to notice things settling in around 50 hours.  I use GEC 6AS7G, Nation Union drivers, and EML 5U4G with great success.  I do prefer the high impedence setting.  Initially I didn't, but after the LCD2 were broken in a bit the high setting started to sound better to my ears with the ALO balanced silver/copper cable.


 

 Windy,
   
  This is very helpful, thank you.  I have about 10 hours on them at this point, so I have a way to go.
   
  One thing that is radically different from my HD800's is that "new headphone" smell.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> You are correct. Going from single ended to fully balanced increases the output 3db so basically doubles the output.


 

 Thanks Music. I didn't know what the actual number of db was so I didn't want to guess. The only reason I brought it up was for the benefit of the members who were looking to get more gain for their LCD-2. If they weren't using fully balanced all the way through, that there was another way without looking at tubes. Listening to the Pink Floyd DSOTM SACD right now - I've never heard it sound like this before, truly remarkable!


----------



## shipsupt

xcalibur255 said:


> The part about the K701 piqued my interest.  Their reputation for being hard to drive is widespread, but you really feel they are that bad?  My WA6 doesn't seem to struggle with them, aside from slightly tepid dynamics with some tubes, though it does exhibit audible strain if you go deep into the volume past about 2 o'clock which is well beyond where I listen to them anyway.  Only while listening to piano solos (which I do like to listen to loud on occasion) does the amp feel like it cannot deliver what I'm asking of it sometimes.




Kind of show shows off the added power difference of the SE, I. Don't think I ever approach 2 with any of my headphones, it would be approaching painful levels. Of course I'm not driving K701's...


----------



## Hi-Five

FWIW, through my WA6-SE I felt like my LCD-2s were very dark for the first 12-15 hours, to the point that I was pretty disappointed with them.  However, after around 15 - 20 hours the highs suddenly became open, airy and crisp...something I really hadn't expected given how dark they seemed out of the box.  I probably have 150 hours on them now and don't feel like they have changed much since hour 20.
   
  Since they opened up I have been bitten by the LCD bug.  My feeling is that there isn't one thing that jumps out as a major strength, it's just that they do everything so well.  The other thing that amazed me is that after about 10 minutes of listening it feels like the cans "disappear" in the sound space.  Instruments are natural, organic and very realistic, seeming to be placed exactly where the mixing engineer wanted them to be.  I don't know how to explain it other than that; this is a very, very natural sounding headphone.
   
  Just my impressions, YMMV.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Windy,
> 
> This is very helpful, thank you.  I have about 10 hours on them at this point, so I have a way to go.
> 
> One thing that is radically different from my HD800's is that "new headphone" smell.


----------



## Hi-Five

Thanks to Xcalibur and SilentOne!
   
  I've finally jumped in with both feet and have been rolling 6SN7s like crazy since you two turned me on to Glenn's awesome adapters.  The first pair that I tried were some RCA's that were okay, not great, not terrible, but when I plugged in some JAN Sylvanias it was like a religious experience.  Xcalibur had mentioned the "inner detail" that is revealed and I can say that is exactly how I felt listening to these tubes.  The timbre of some instruments had a whole other layer that was very discernible now, whereas only hinted at with a 6DE7.  I still feel that my Sylvania 6FD7s are no slouch, and probably have more low end impact, but I have much rolling to do before I come to a formal opinion.  I couldn't believe how right SilentOne was too, this amp is downright "cold" while running these tubes, I was a little worried at first!
   
  The bottom line is that I find the 6SN7s to be a very fun tube with the WA6-SE and Glenn's adapters.  Wish I had the coin to try a TSRP, but I can't justify that kind of cake for a set of tubes!
   
  Thanks again to everyone who has offered great tube advice, this is a fantastic forum for those of us who are wanting to experiment with our Woos.  Someone had mentioned a 6SL7 as another option, are there any others in the 6SN7 family that would be drop-ins using the adapters?
   
  You can never have too many tubes right?!?!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  From what I have read I think that the K701 would improve with the WA6SE compared to the WA6; they needed almost as much power out of the EF5 as the HE-5 did when I compared, which is how I came to my original conclusions. The K701 is similar to the LCD-2 where it won't sound bad per say if they're not fully driven but they really ramp up with more power; they both seem to suck it up like a sponge before leveling off although not to the same extent as the HE series. Although I haven't heard either of those Woos personally I just got my third pair of K701s in today, totally stock this time (first two were balanced). Now I will have the HE-6 and LCD-2 to compare out of the Lyr, which is the only amp of mine that will drive all three headphones as the K701 is limited to the stock cable and the Alesis needs a 4-pin balanced adapter.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> Did you have a breakin period for your LCD-2's?


 

 I might be the wrong guy to ask as I feel that break in is mostly psycho-acoustic in nature rather than equipment oriented. But from following the LCD-2 all along the consensus seems to be that they don't break in like normal dynamic headphones. The ALO cable may be another story however, if you believe in such things as physical equipment breaking in in the first place. Owning multiple HE-5s and HD600s is how I came to my conclusions regarding the whole break-in phenomenon.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 About 10:30 tends to be my normal listening position, which is actually the same as my solid state VHP-2.  It definitely gets loud enough for any material, I just feel that the amp struggles with piano in general.  By the time it is loud enough for me to really get into it things are starting to fall apart, so it is a fine balancing act with that one thing.  Every day I think about how the WA22 will improve on this when the day finally comes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Thanks to Xcalibur and SilentOne!
> 
> I've finally jumped in with both feet and have been rolling 6SN7s like crazy since you two turned me on to Glenn's awesome adapters.  The first pair that I tried were some RCA's that were okay, not great, not terrible, but when I plugged in some JAN Sylvanias it was like a religious experience.  Xcalibur had mentioned the "inner detail" that is revealed and I can say that is exactly how I felt listening to these tubes.  The timbre of some instruments had a whole other layer that was very discernible now, whereas only hinted at with a 6DE7.  I still feel that my Sylvania 6FD7s are no slouch, and probably have more low end impact, but I have much rolling to do before I come to a formal opinion.  I couldn't believe how right SilentOne was too, this amp is downright "cold" while running these tubes, I was a little worried at first!
> 
> ...


 



 Glad to see another person enjoying this route. 
   
  There are quite a few other tubes you can try in the amp, but each type requires its own adapter because the pin wiring differs from type to type.  Glenn offered to make me a 6DN7 adapter (which I noticed another user just recently commented about), but since it is basically half a 6DE7 and half a 6SN7 I figured I had already traveled the higher road and decided not to try it.  As for the 6SL7 I have not looked into that, but I don't recall that being listed as an electrically compatible tube.  When in doubt refer to Jacks compatibility list. 
   
  If you like inner resolution the round plate tung sol king of that hill amongst the tubes I personally own.  I find my recently purchased National Union black glass pretty good at this too, but they have shortcomings the tung sols and better sylvania tubes don't.  People have really good things to say about the Brimar CV1988 too, especially the coated glass versions.  I'm on record as not liking the sound of this tube, but I have to admit it is starting to sound better to me now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I actually need to go into a bit of detail on the Brimars in the interests of keeping the impressions I write transparent.  I just recently put the Brimar CV1988 clearglass back in, and I really can't explain my change of heart.  They're being listened to with the same rectifier as last time (EML 274B) and have not been used since my previous negative impressions so break-in can't explain it.  Before it felt like somebody had thrown a blanket over the entire sonic presentation, like the soundstage was compressed in a way that felt very unnatural, and now that feeling isn't there.  What I heard the other night was a balanced but warm sound with great resolution and good overall clarity.  They were so much more open sounding I couldn't believe they were the same tubes.  It might have just been something off with me during the original listening sessions, but either way it bothers me to have two totally different experiences with the same tube after I went on record as finding them to sound bad.  I tend to write at length just for the fun of it, but I also take it seriously knowing somebody else might be using my words to make their own tube rolling choices.  My experience with the Brimar has left me contradicting myself, and I can't help but wonder if my own ears are to blame or if operating conditions in the amp or tubes might have caused it.  Either way I wanted to post this, since it didn't feel right to have my previous negative posts on the subject left standing when I don't believe those words are accurate anymore.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I actually need to go into a bit of detail on the Brimars in the interests of keeping the impressions I write transparent.  I just recently put the Brimar CV1988 clearglass back in, and I really can't explain my change of heart.  They're being listened to with the same rectifier as last time (EML 274B) and have not been used since my previous negative impressions so break-in can't explain it.  Before it felt like somebody had thrown a blanket over the entire sonic presentation, like the soundstage was compressed in a way that felt very unnatural, and now that feeling isn't there.  What I heard the other night was a balanced but warm sound with great resolution and good overall clarity.  They were so much more open sounding I couldn't believe they were the same tubes.  It might have just been something off with me during the original listening sessions, but either way it bothers me to have two totally different experiences with the same tube after I went on record as finding them to sound bad.  I tend to write at length just for the fun of it, but I also take it seriously knowing somebody else might be using my words to make their own tube rolling choices.  My experience with the Brimar has left me contradicting myself, and I can't help but wonder if my own ears are to blame or if operating conditions in the amp or tubes might have caused it.  Either way I wanted to post this, since it didn't feel right to have my previous negative posts on the subject left standing when I don't believe those words are accurate anymore.


 

 I don't think this is something that's all that unusual when rolling tubes.  Same thing happened to me with my GZ37 rectifier tube. First couple of times I used it, the sound wasn't that impressive. It wasn't until I removed my surround sound processor from the chain that everything changed. Now I use the GZ37 about 40% of the time, and the EML 5U4G the other 60%. Don't get me wrong, the EML is still better, but the GZ37 still proves a very nice alternative.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> From what I have read I think that the K701 would improve with the WA6SE compared to the WA6; they needed almost as much power out of the EF5 as the HE-5 did when I compared, which is how I came to my original conclusions. The K701 is similar to the LCD-2 where it won't sound bad per say if they're not fully driven but they really ramp up with more power; they both seem to suck it up like a sponge before leveling off although not to the same extent as the HE series. Although I haven't heard either of those Woos personally I just got my third pair of K701s in today, totally stock this time (first two were balanced). Now I will have the HE-6 and LCD-2 to compare out of the Lyr, which is the only amp of mine that will drive all three headphones as the K701 is limited to the stock cable and the Alesis needs a 4-pin balanced adapter.


 

 Have you read this review by Jude.
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545805/schiit-audio-lyr-my-first-impressions#post_7358255
   
  As far as the 701 with the WA6SE my impressions are about the same as Xcalibur255 with his WA-6, the only difference is that I never felt my WA6SE was straining.


----------



## Skylab

Guys it would be a VERY bad idea to use a 6SL7 in the WA6/6SE unless someone at Woo has specifically said it will work.  The 6DE7 and 6FD7 have an amplification factor of 6.  The 6SN7GT's is 20.  The 6SL7 has an amplification factor of *70*!  The plate resistance of a 6FD7 is 800 ohms.  The 6SN7 is approximately 7K ohm.  The 6SL7 is 44K ohm!!!  The 6SL7 is a high-mu tube.  It is not and has never been a drop in replacement for the 6SN7.  Heck, the 6BL7 would be a better choice *IF* the WA6 can handle the higher heater current draw of 1.5 a, which I am not at all sure it can.


----------



## shipsupt

skylab said:


> Guys it would be a VERY bad idea to use a 6SL7 in the WA6/6SE unless someone at Woo has specifically said it will work.  The 6DE7 and 6FD7 have an amplification factor of 6.  The 6SN7GT's is 20.  The 6SL7 has an amplification factor of *70*!  The plate resistance of a 6FD7 is 800 ohms.  The 6SN7 is approximately 7K ohm.  The 6SL7 is 44K ohm!!!  The 6SL7 is a high-mu tube.  It is not and has never been a drop in replacement for the 6SN7.  Heck, the 6BL7 would be a better choice *IF* the WA6 can handle the higher heater current draw of 1.5 a, which I am not at all sure it can.




I've been checking out the 6BL7. Glen indicated that I should be able to run it on the 6se with my 6DN7 adapter. I don't see it on the woo chart, so I'll likely ask jack before dropping one in. Has anyone tried them?


----------



## Skylab

The good thing about the 6BL7 is that they can be had cheap.  There are not many variants, though.  Pick up a pair of Sylvanias and you are basically done.  Shouldn't cost more than $20.  But definitely check with Jack first.  Draws 50% more heater current than the 6FD7!  Not sure if the transformer on the WA6 or 6SE can handle that.


----------



## Hi-Five

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Guys it would be a VERY bad idea to use a 6SL7 in the WA6/6SE unless someone at Woo has specifically said it will work.  The 6DE7 and 6FD7 have an amplification factor of 6.  The 6SN7GT's is 20.  The 6SL7 has an amplification factor of *70*!  The plate resistance of a 6FD7 is 800 ohms.  The 6SN7 is approximately 7K ohm.  The 6SL7 is 44K ohm!!!  The 6SL7 is a high-mu tube.  It is not and has never been a drop in replacement for the 6SN7.  Heck, the 6BL7 would be a better choice *IF* the WA6 can handle the higher heater current draw of 1.5 a, which I am not at all sure it can.


 

 Thanks SkyLab, I really should do more research before I mention a part number that I *may* have read about somewhere, but as always, the experts reading this thread have come to the rescue!  That's interesting about the 6DE7/6FD7 amp factor of 6, it seems like the 6FD7 runs at higher gains than the 6DE7 in my amp, but that could just be subjective response to different sound signature.  I also am surely missing other factors that play into perception of gain.


----------



## Hi-Five

I have never faulted someone for changing their opinion, it indicates an open mind to me.  It's far more disturbing when someone refuses to consider other factors and insists that a *subjective* opinion is gospel.  We all hear differently and we all express what we hear differently as well.  What I find the most fun is when we can find common ground where we all share our impressions in a respectful, open forum such as this one.  IMO, YMMV, IME, etc!
   
  Cheers!
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I actually need to go into a bit of detail on the Brimars in the interests of keeping the impressions I write transparent.  I just recently put the Brimar CV1988 clearglass back in, and I really can't explain my change of heart.  They're being listened to with the same rectifier as last time (EML 274B) and have not been used since my previous negative impressions so break-in can't explain it.  Before it felt like somebody had thrown a blanket over the entire sonic presentation, like the soundstage was compressed in a way that felt very unnatural, and now that feeling isn't there.  What I heard the other night was a balanced but warm sound with great resolution and good overall clarity.  They were so much more open sounding I couldn't believe they were the same tubes.  It might have just been something off with me during the original listening sessions, but either way it bothers me to have two totally different experiences with the same tube after I went on record as finding them to sound bad.  I tend to write at length just for the fun of it, but I also take it seriously knowing somebody else might be using my words to make their own tube rolling choices.  My experience with the Brimar has left me contradicting myself, and I can't help but wonder if my own ears are to blame or if operating conditions in the amp or tubes might have caused it.  Either way I wanted to post this, since it didn't feel right to have my previous negative posts on the subject left standing when I don't believe those words are accurate anymore.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 NO, don't use the 6BL7 with any adapter in the wa6 nor wa6SE. it draws 1.5 ampere of current, per tube, which will fry the power transformer.
  the limit on the woo power transformer for wa6 and wa6SE is 1.2 ampere, per tube.
   
  as skylab mentioned, the 6sl7 is not anywhere near the working spec of the 6sn7. you'd just likely hear noise and humming on the wa6 and
  wa6SE.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hi-five said:


> Thanks SkyLab, I really should do more research before I mention a part number that I *may* have read about somewhere, but as always, the experts reading this thread have come to the rescue!  That's interesting about the 6DE7/6FD7 amp factor of 6, it seems like the 6FD7 runs at higher gains than the 6DE7 in my amp, but that could just be subjective response to different sound signature.  I also am surely missing other factors that play into perception of gain.


 

 The 6FD7 is higher MU/gain than the 6DE7.  Skylab seems to be quoting different numbers than the ones I have seen, but he knows a *lot* more about tubes than I do, for sure so I would trust him on numbers before trusting me.  But I am certain that the 6DE7 and 6EW7 have the same gain, and the 6CY7, 6FD7 and 6DR7 all have the same gain and that gain is higher than the 6DE7.


----------



## K_19

I know this is not a FS forum but since my WTB ad a month ago went totally ignored (Don't think many people browse the accessory FS forum), if anyone here in this thread have a decent sounding 6DE7 they're willing to part with (if you moved on to 6SN7 or whatnot) and willing to ship over here to Toronto, then please let me know through PM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
   
  As for the 6SN7 and the 6FD7, I've been told by Jack neither are compatible even with adaptors, unfortunately. This prototype seems very picky with the tubes compatibility and it would cost quite a bit of money and time to fix the board to make the unit compatible with them, and makes me regret buying my WA6SE used (in which the user didn't even specify if it was the prototype unit in the first place... and was overall a horrible sales experience, if anyone still remembers that debacle I went through last year).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:  





> ....if anyone still remembers that debacle I went through last year).


 
   
  I certainly remember that episode. I'm glad that Jack was able to help you "fix" it up. I've never owned or heard a 6DE7. I only have 6EW7 and 6FD7.


----------



## Skylab

xcalibur255 said:


> The 6FD7 is higher MU/gain than the 6DE7.  Skylab seems to be quoting different numbers than the ones I have seen, but he knows a *lot* more about tubes than I do, for sure so I would trust him on numbers before trusting me.  But I am certain that the 6DE7 and 6EW7 have the same gain, and the 6CY7, 6FD7 and 6DR7 all have the same gain and that gain is higher than the 6DE7.




No, you're right, I was typing too fast and wasnt clear enough. Sorry. The 6DE7 and 6FD7 are dissimilar triodes, so you always have to quote TWO gain numbers, which I failed to do. The 6DE7 has amplification factors of 6 and 17.5 on triodes 2 and 1, respectively. The 6FD7 has amplification factors of 6 and 64. So they both have a mu of 6 on T2, but quite different on T1.

On most triodes, the mu is the same on both triodes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Triode 1 must be used as the power power triode then, otherwise the amp wouldn't gain power output by going to the 6FD7 tube.  17.5 and 64 are the numbers I had seen before, but the amplification factor on the other triode was unknown to me until now.  Great info as always.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, on a tester, tubes like the 6DE7/6FD7 have two totally different settings for each triode. They are actually kind of a pain to test as a result


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Triode 1 must be used as the power power triode then, otherwise the amp wouldn't gain power output by going to the 6FD7 tube.  17.5 and 64 are the numbers I had seen before, but the amplification factor on the other triode was unknown to me until now.  Great info as always.


 


 You have it backwards triode 2 is the power amp pins 9 cathode pin 1 plate and pins 2&3 grid
                                   triode 1 gain amp  pin 8 cathode  pin 6 plate and pin 7 grid
  This is for a 6DE7 , 6FD7 ,6EW7 , 6DR7 ,
   the 6CY7 & 6CS7 is the same but don't have pins 2&3 tied together to grid 2 there is no connection to the pin 2
  Glenn


----------



## Xcalibur255

So the increased volume comes from input signal gain, sort of in the same way the voltage on a source signal will affect volume?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So the increased volume comes from input signal gain, sort of in the same way the voltage on a source signal will affect volume?


 

  
  Yes section 1 amplifies the voltage and gives the gain wile section 2 has low gain but adds the current/power to the output transformer.
  so a tube with higher gain in section 1 will have more gain but not more power. Allot of people confuse gain with power and think
  if they have to turn up the volume control less they have more power but really they just have more gain and not any more power.
      You will not get more power by changing output tubes to increase the power you would have to up the B+ voltage in the power supply
  or have a lower impedance on the primary of the output transformer this would also require a different tube.
  To up the power a little you can switch the rectifier to a 5AR4 and that will up the B+ a little.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thank you for a great post Glenn.  It's easy to understand too.  So the idea that the 6FD7 makes the amp more powerful is totally wrong then?  That's very interesting.  It is increasing signal gain but not output power, so the 6FD7 will not improve the amps ability to drive power hungry headphones like many of us have believed.  I had no idea that the rectifier affected output power either.  I know it affects the B+ voltage presented to the other tubes, but to be honest I've heard this term (b+ that is) thrown around and don't fully understand what it means very well.  Basically the output of the rectifier affects the electrical operating points of the tubes downstream in the circuit and causes them to output more or less current if I understand the basic concept correctly, right?
   
  I find the whole subject very enjoyable to read about.


----------



## Skylab

What I prefer about the 6FD7 is the sonic signature


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What I prefer about the 6FD7 is the sonic signature


 


  Agreed, at least until I went the 6SN7 route.  I'm still surprised you didn't like how they sounded in your WA6.  The difference seems like night and day to me.  Whenever I put a 6FD7 back in it feels like going from 3D to 2D in a manner of speaking.  All the extra things I'm used to hearing in that "third dimension" don't get presented at all, and it leaves me disconnected with the listening experience.
   
  If I give myself time to adjust I can go back, as evinced by my ramblings about these tubes from a couple of weeks ago, but I think I lasted about 5 days then I had to put a 6SN7 back in.  That was the modest Tung Sol mouse ear and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to them that entire night.


----------



## SpudHarris

I have tried going back to other tubes like 6FD7, 6EW7 etc.. and although I can probably find something endearing to say about each like the smoothness of the 6EW7 or increased bass impact of the 6FD7, compared to the 6SN7 there is just something missing. No matter what I roll on my WA6 I keep coming back to the Sylvania Bad Boy and EML 5U4G combo for most of my phones (mainly T1's) it's magical and immersive.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

How many hours of burn-in required for the WA22 with stock tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Thank you for a great post Glenn.  It's easy to understand too.  So the idea that the 6FD7 makes the amp more powerful is totally wrong then?  That's very interesting.  It is increasing signal gain but not output power, so the 6FD7 will not improve the amps ability to drive power hungry headphones like many of us have believed.  I had no idea that the rectifier affected output power either.  I know it affects the B+ voltage presented to the other tubes, but to be honest I've heard this term (b+ that is) thrown around and don't fully understand what it means very well.  Basically the output of the rectifier affects the electrical operating points of the tubes downstream in the circuit and causes them to output more or less current if I understand the basic concept correctly, right?
> 
> I find the whole subject very enjoyable to read about.


 


 The B+ voltage is the DC voltage that the amp runs on usually 150 to 450 volts according to amp and tubes used.
   the AC voltage from the power transformer goes to the rectifier and changed to pulsating DC then to the
  filter capacitor to make pure DC which is called the B+ in tube amps.
   Every rectifier tube has a different voltage drop across the tube so by changing the rectifier you are changing the
  voltage to the amp. That's why different rectifiers change the sound no audio signal goes through the Rectifier.
  a 5AR4 will have the lowest drop
   
    A little trivia B+ comes from the 1920s when radios ran on batteries a A battery was for the filaments
  a B battery was for the plates usually 90 volt  and a C battery was for the negative grid voltage.
  So this is were the term B+ voltage came from it used to mean it came from the B battery.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn,

Since 5AR4 has the lowest drop, does it means it puts out more voltage than 5U4G? Sorry for the noob q.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glenn, I always get the impression you should be selling your own amps somewhere considering how knowledgeable you are about them.  Thank you again for the education.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Glenn, I always get the impression you should be selling your own amps somewhere considering how knowledgeable you are about them.  Thank you again for the education.


 


 I do preampe and OTL headphone amps


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> How many hours of burn-in required for the WA22 with stock tubes


 

 I gave mine about 50 hours (try not to exceed 8 hrs/day). I don't think it's necessary to wait any longer if you're curious how other tubes sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Since 5AR4 has the lowest drop, does it means it puts out more voltage than 5U4G? Sorry for the noob q.


 


 The voltage drop in the rectifier varies according to what the current draw through it is.
  5AR4 voltage drop at 225ma    17volts
  5U4   voltage drop at 225ma     44volts
  5R4   voltage drop at 225ma     67volts      a 274B is similar to a 5AR4
  So it is possible that the voltage your amp is running on is 27volts higher with a 5AR4
  So that will allow it to put out more power but it doesn't mean it will sound better some times a amp sounds better by lowering the B+ voltage.


----------



## jc9394

Thanks for the detail explanations, I wonder if this is why I like EML 274B and GZ34 with LCD-2 over the EML 5U4G.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Those numbers would seem to confirm what I hear with my ears.  The 5R4 tubes feel like they have a bit less drive to them, and are thus more romantic.  It turns out they actually result in lower output power which would jive with the listening impressions.  I'm a believer in power not being as big a deal as some people make it out to be, since I really like the 5R4 sound myself.  I'm a little surprised the 274B has less voltage drop than the 5U4G does though, given the popular opinion that it is the more laid back sounding of the two tubes.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Thanks.
  Since this is my first tube amp, I will stick with the stock tubes for now.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I gave mine about 50 hours (try not to exceed 8 hrs/day). I don't think it's necessary to wait any longer if you're curious how other tubes sound.


----------



## Pitts Pilot

I'm quite new to the HP scene.  I have HD650s.  I dropped into a local store here in Taiwan and plugged them into a Woo WA 6.  It sounded good, but I felt like it had to try pretty hard to get things as lively as I wanted it.  I couldn't describe it as driving the 650s "effortlessly."  While I wouldn't keep it there for an extended period, I did max out the volume knob at one point - this is on one of my most quietly recorded pieces.  I'm looking for something that will push the 650 a good bit harder.  The guy in the store said the WA 3 - but we have a major language barrier here.  Would the WA 3 push the HD650s better/louder?  If not, what in the Woo line - WA 2?  Help a lazy new guy out.  600 posts - I just can't do this week.


----------



## nigeljames

If you want more power and a livelier sound try the Woo6se. Far more powerful and more dynamic.


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





pitts pilot said:


> I'm quite new to the HP scene.  I have HD650s.  I dropped into a local store here in Taiwan and plugged them into a Woo WA 6.  It sounded good, but I felt like it had to try pretty hard to get things as lively as I wanted it.  I couldn't describe it as driving the 650s "effortlessly."  While I wouldn't keep it there for an extended period, I did max out the volume knob at one point - this is on one of my most quietly recorded pieces.  I'm looking for something that will push the 650 a good bit harder.  The guy in the store said the WA 3 - but we have a major language barrier here.  Would the WA 3 push the HD650s better/louder?  If not, what in the Woo line - WA 2?  Help a lazy new guy out.  600 posts - I just can't do this week.


 

 The HD650 is not everybody's cup of tea and I found them to be muddy, lacking detail and having a closed soundstage even on the WA22. I would try to plug them into a higher quality amp and see if you still like the sound. You may be disappointed in what you hear.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> The HD650 is not everybody's cup of tea and I found them to be muddy, lacking detail and having a closed soundstage even on the WA22. I would try to plug them into a higher quality amp and see if you still like the sound. You may be disappointed in what you hear.


 

 x2. I'm listening to the HD650 on my WA22 right now because the 22 sounds brighter than usual with my combo of tubes. The HD650 almost sound decent--but not quite there yet. WA22 is running all stock tubes except for the rectifier which is NOS Brimar 5Z4G (1955). Would the HD600 sound less "muddy" or is that its sound signature for the HD5xx and 6xx? The DT900 600Ω is way too bright.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


brasewel said:


> The HD650 is not everybody's cup of tea and I found them to be muddy, lacking detail and having a closed soundstage even on the WA22. I would try to plug them into a higher quality amp and see if you still like the sound. You may be disappointed in what you hear.


 

 I wouldn't say they're lacking detail, but the details are overlapped, and yes that does muddy things a bit.  That also messes w/ soundstage, very little air.  This is fine for certain genres but unacceptable with others.
   
  Quote:


clayton sf said:


> x2. I'm listening to the HD650 on my WA22 right now because the 22 sounds brighter than usual with my combo of tubes. The HD650 almost sound decent--but not quite there yet. WA22 is running all stock tubes except for the rectifier which is NOS Brimar 5Z4G (1955). Would the HD600 sound less "muddy" or is that its sound signature for the HD5xx and 6xx? The DT900 600Ω is way too bright.


 

 Sound signature.


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2. I'm listening to the HD650 on my WA22 right now because the 22 sounds brighter than usual with my combo of tubes. The HD650 almost sound decent--but not quite there yet. WA22 is running all stock tubes except for the rectifier which is NOS Brimar 5Z4G (1955). Would the HD600 sound less "muddy" or is that its sound signature for the HD5xx and 6xx? The DT900 600Ω is way too bright.


 

 I haven't listened to the HD600 but from what I heard it has less bass and is a more laidback phone. It's similar to the HD800 without the huge soundstage and is not as analytical. It may be to your liking.
   


  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> I wouldn't say they're lacking detail, but the details are overlapped, and yes that does muddy things a bit.  That also messes w/ soundstage, very little air.  This is fine for certain genres but unacceptable with others.
> 
> ...


 

 Well I got to hear your HD650 for 10 minutes at most so I'll defer to your comments


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Those numbers would seem to confirm what I hear with my ears.  The 5R4 tubes feel like they have a bit less drive to them, and are thus more romantic.  It turns out they actually result in lower output power which would jive with the listening impressions.  I'm a believer in power not being as big a deal as some people make it out to be, since I really like the 5R4 sound myself.  I'm a little surprised the 274B has less voltage drop than the 5U4G does though, given the popular opinion that it is the more laid back sounding of the two tubes.


 


 The 274B has more voltage drop than a 5U4 it is close to a 5R4


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 274B has more voltage drop than a 5U4 it is close to a 5R4


 

 That was  a typo in the earlier post I meant the 274B is close to a 5R4 not a 5AR4
  
  .


----------



## mikemalter

Ok, can someone please explain what is going on here as my mind has been sutiably blown.
   
  As you guys know, I have been complaining about my PS Audio PWD/bridge DAC.  I've PM'd a few of you with some questions about your experiences, and have gotten public comments that the bridge is superior to coax.  The past few weeks I've been trying to figure out why the audio from the bridge has been so thin and jagged sounding.  I even bought a pair of LCD-2 headphones hoping that by adding something dark to the equation that the issue would be resolved.  Well the LCD-2's did not solve the problem.
   
  However something else did and this is what I cannot comprehend.  I've tested this for the past few days, and now I am sure.  By swapping out my GEC 6AS7G tubes that sounded so heavenly with the PS Audio DLIII + Monarchy DIP (boosts signal by 3 to 5 volts) and swapping in a pair of Sylvania 7236 the PWD/bridge combo is starting to sound really nice and it sounds better than coax.
   
  My question is why would a pair of power tubes that sounded so bad with my DLIII+Monarchy DIP combination sound so good with the PWD/bridge?  The GEC 6AS7G tubes are an exact matched pair, so they are not suspect.  With my DLIII + Monarchy DIP combo the Sylvania's sounded overcooked and harsh in my WA22, and now without the Monarchy DIP and just the PWD, the GEC 6AS7G are sounding thin and jagged, and the Sylvania's sound rich and full bodied.  I tried both headsets, the LCD-2 and HD800's yesterday and that ear bleeding sound was gone and everything was beginning to sound musical.
   
  So, is there a relationship between the DAC and power tubes? 
   
  I also pulled my TSRP's and put in a pair of the Treasures and I could not believe I liked the sound better with the Treasures.
   
  I always thought that once you had a sound profile from your amp, that you could change hardware around it and the audio would not change, but that seems to be the case.  I like to hear what others think about this.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Wedge

What I find curious is that I'm using the DLIII with WA-22 and love it with the 7236, but for drive tubes I'm using Mullard ECC32.  I found the extra power from the 7236 to be very useful in driving the LCD-2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, can someone please explain what is going on here as my mind has been sutiably blown.
> 
> As you guys know, I have been complaining about my PS Audio PWD/bridge DAC.  I've PM'd a few of you with some questions about your experiences, and have gotten public comments that the bridge is superior to coax.  The past few weeks I've been trying to figure out why the audio from the bridge has been so thin and jagged sounding.  I even bought a pair of LCD-2 headphones hoping that by adding something dark to the equation that the issue would be resolved.  Well the LCD-2's did not solve the problem.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I do not have this issue with my PWD/GEC combo, both GEC 6080/6AS7G and TS 5998 sound heavenly on my setup.  I'm very happy that you figure it out, now happy listen to the PWD/WA22 combo.  They are a prefect matched pair.
   
  Finally someone agree with me that Treasures sounds better with LCD-2, did you find that the TS BGRP are too smooth?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, can someone please explain what is going on here as my mind has been sutiably blown.
> 
> As you guys know, I have been complaining about my PS Audio PWD/bridge DAC.  I've PM'd a few of you with some questions about your experiences, and have gotten public comments that the bridge is superior to coax.  The past few weeks I've been trying to figure out why the audio from the bridge has been so thin and jagged sounding.  I even bought a pair of LCD-2 headphones hoping that by adding something dark to the equation that the issue would be resolved.  Well the LCD-2's did not solve the problem.
> 
> ...


 

 From someone with no knowledge of the PS Audio equipment, it's reading like you've got a hardware issue (tubes really shouldn't make that much of a difference should they).  My suggestion is to try and find someone with the same equipment and start swapping one piece at a time to try and isolate where the problem is.


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





pitts pilot said:


> I'm quite new to the HP scene.  I have HD650s.  I dropped into a local store here in Taiwan and plugged them into a Woo WA 6.  It sounded good, but I felt like it had to try pretty hard to get things as lively as I wanted it.  I couldn't describe it as driving the 650s "effortlessly."  While I wouldn't keep it there for an extended period, I did max out the volume knob at one point - this is on one of my most quietly recorded pieces.  I'm looking for something that will push the 650 a good bit harder.  The guy in the store said the WA 3 - but we have a major language barrier here.  Would the WA 3 push the HD650s better/louder?  If not, what in the Woo line - WA 2?  Help a lazy new guy out.  600 posts - I just can't do this week.


 



 My HD650s can be driven to the point of pain with my WA2. On some of my quieter pieces (e.g. Red Violin Soundtrack - Anna's Theme), the music itself is so quiet that it doesn't feel like the amp is fully driving--but if I properly adjust the volume on the source (I'm using MediaMonkey thru a NuForce Icon HDP as a preamp), I can still split eardrums. Not sure what your source was.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do not have this issue with my PWD/GEC combo, both GEC 6080/6AS7G and TS 5998 sound heavenly on my setup.  I'm very happy that you figure it out, now happy listen to the PWD/WA22 combo.  They are a prefect matched pair.
> 
> Finally someone agree with me that Treasures sounds better with LCD-2, did you find that the TS BGRP are too smooth?


 

 Something is not right here, when you say the TSRP 6SN7GT's are too smooth compared to the Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT. Yes I can understand why the Treasure would seem better with a bright DAC as it would seem to be the case with the PWD. imo the Treasure's just will not give you the dynamic range or impact of the TSRP's.
  The TSRP's are know for there very good highs and lows, the LCD-2's are said to not have a great high range but they do have a very good low range. So right there you are taking away the two very strong points of the TSRP's, but still you say that the TSRP's are too smooth that I just don't get.
   
  After all Mike has spent almost $4000 on the bridge and PWD, and imo for that kind of money those gears should be very neutral and very sensitive to the source material.
  Yes I would say Golfnutz is right in what he is saying.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Something is not right here, when you say the TSRP 6SN7GT's are too smooth compared to the Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT. Yes I can understand why the Treasure would seem better with a bright DAC as it would seem to be the case with the PWD. imo the Treasure's just will not give you the dynamic range or impact of the TSRP's.
> The TSRP's are know for there very good highs and lows, the LCD-2's are said to not have a great high range but they do have a very good low range. So right there you are taking away the two very strong points of the TSRP's, but still you say that the TSRP's are too smooth that I just don't get.
> 
> After all Mike has spent almost $4000 on the bridge and PWD, and imo for that kind of money those gears should be very neutral and very sensitive to the source material.
> Yes I would say Golfnutz is right in what he is saying.


 

 Yes, IMHO, the TSRP's have more dynamic range than the Treasures, but when I put the TSRP's into the mix with the Sylvania's, the result is too much brightness for my tastes.  It seems that if I do not have the Sylvania's in the mix, the output from the PWD is not listenable, so the Sylvania's are the key tubes.
   
  I've talked with the folks at PS Audio, and they are very easy to work with and they said to give 150 hours to the bridge and if after that it is not sounding right to me, send it back in and they will take a look at it.
   
  It is interesting to me that when the Monarchy DIP is in the mix, my GEC 6AS7G's are great, and when the DIP is not in the mix, I need the Sylvania's.  The DIP boosts the signal, and it is my understanding that the Sylvania is also more powerful, and I am wondering if the additional bosted signal has anything to do with it.
   
  PS is going to come out with a digital lens product that will accept a NIC or USB connection and then output a digital signal.  And, since I seem to be so in love with what the DIP does, maybe I might go that route; but that action is a potential for down the road.  I'm going to let this play out the remainder of this week and if by Monday there is still an issue, I'll send the DAC in and let them look at it.  It may be that the DAC is perfectly fine and it is just that my tastes are not aligned with it.


----------



## Icenine2

Sidestepping topic w/all the tube+PS Audio talk: The Wyred4Sound DAC2 I've had for almost two weeks is getting better all the time w/burn in.  I've got about 50+ hours on it.  One of these days I'll hook it up to the big rig (a tiny bit of remodeling going on so the big rig is down)
   
Our designer/decorator saw the WA22 sitting next to my computer and this is what she said as her lip curled in a Snidely Whiplash manner:* " What is that.........some sort of radio?! "*  She definitely would have tossed it right out the 2nd story window if she had her way.  I got a good laugh out of that for a few days!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> *****  Our designer/decorator saw the WA22 sitting next to my computer and this is what she said as her lip curled in a Snidely Whiplash manner:* " What is that.........some sort of radio?! "*  She definitely would have tossed it right out the 2nd story window if she had her way.  I got a good laugh out of that for a few days!


 
  I get that all the time from my neighbors and coworkers. Usually I tell them that it's a headphone amp and they say "Sure it is." Now I just tell them that "it's a highly sensitive listening device that occasionally picks up office conversations from afar." Then I put my headphones on... Huh? :/


----------



## Wedge

I'm surrounded by engineers so they walk into my office and the tube lovers have a field day, and the solid state guys start to cry about how solid state is so much better, blah blah blah.  Of course I also keep a solid state amp in my office, so there is a little something for everyone.


----------



## brasewel

^^Wish I was working at your office. Would love if I had all my equipment at my workplace


----------



## Wedge

Its strange, I am an engineer, but I sit in the program management office area at work, so does my friend, also fellow head-fier.  It gets pretty loud and most of the management nonsense going on around us no one really notices that we have music going on open headphones.  So it works, I get to enjoy my Woo Audio WA-22 and LCD-2.  I found it interesting that people felt the 7236 was a bright tube.  It might very well be, but I didn't really get that when combined with the Mullard ECC-32 I thought it was very well balanced out.  I am also using an NOS RCA 5U4G.  I do think that the bass was lacking a little when I used the 7236 with TSRP, but it was still a very good sound.


----------



## brasewel

Which SS amp do you keep at work?


----------



## Wedge

I keep a PS Audio GCHA.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I get that all the time from my neighbors and coworkers. Usually I tell them that it's a headphone amp and they say "Sure it is." Now I just tell them that "it's a highly sensitive listening device that occasionally picks up office conversations from afar." Then I put my headphones on... Huh? :/


 

 I used to get that at my last client where I had my WA22.  All the musician types would gravitate to my cube for quick listening sessions during the day.


----------



## Golfnutz

I've had my WA22 for about 3 months now.  I would say it's settled to the point where it's not going to change the sound anymore.  For the past 6 weeks or so, I've only used 7236's, with TSRP, and EML 5U4G.  I listen to the volume at 9 o'clock, which is 5 clicks (sound is pretty loud, which is due to a fully balanced path giving increased db). Today, I put the GEC 6AS7G's back in to see if there was that much of a difference. I think adding 2 more clicks gave me about the same db level as the 7236.  Honestly, there was an incremental improvement with GEC 6AS7G's. It really wasn't that much, and I would say the 7236's are a strong runner-up.  If swapping these tubes is resulting in that much of a difference, can it only be the result of LCD-2?


----------



## Clayton SF

Are there any ready opinions on Grado HP paired with their Woo amps?
  Mike—your LCD-2 must look very wicked with that custom cable from ALO. I’ve seen them on their site. Nice!


----------



## Wedge

Bleh, one of the Shuguang 300Bs is doing some funny stuff, snap crackle and pop, then it cuts out.  Moved the tube to the other speaker and it follows, bummer.  Had to take the day off from work and now nothing to listen to.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Bleh, one of the Shuguang 300Bs is doing some funny stuff, snap crackle and pop, then it cuts out.  Moved the tube to the other speaker and it follows, bummer.  Had to take the day off from work and now nothing to listen to.


 

 Bummer. Sorry to hear about that. How many hours on that 300B?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Are there any ready opinions on Grado HP paired with their Woo amps?
> Mike—your LCD-2 must look very wicked with that custom cable from ALO. I’ve seen them on their site. Nice!


 

 It actually does look pretty cool.  I like the feel of it as it is bulkier than a standard cable.  I'll post some photos later today.


----------



## sphinxvc

Woo Audio Amp Owner checking in here, I just bought a used WA6.  Any recommendations on what tubes I should buy and where to source them?  Xcalibur255, I'd love to hear your thoughts especially.  I'm driving the K701s as well.  If you're recommending tubes please include something on sound signature as well, I know next to nothing about tubes.


----------



## Wedge

By my estimates I would say like 100 hours.  Whats happening is when I turn on the amp it runs fine for a while.  After say maybe 30 minutes I hear a small quiet pop in the speaker, then maybe again 15 minutes later.  Usually after the second time the speaker cuts out for a few minutes, and then a quiet pop and comes back.  It appears to follow the tube.  I have swapped 6SN7s as well, but this yielded no change.  So I'm pretty settled on the 300B currently in the right side of the amp, being the culprit.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Bummer. Sorry to hear about that. How many hours on that 300B?


----------



## sphinxvc

Does the Sophia sell cheaper [than what Woo Audio sells for] anywhere?


----------



## Wedge

Welcome to the club!.  I've noticed Xcalibur uses 6SN7 with adapters, otherwise I have no knowledge of the tubes in the WA-6, other than I use RCA NOS 5U4G and waiting for EML 5U4G Mesh from Jack.  As far as 6SN7 go, there are quite a few good choices here.  Tung-Sol Round Plate (most people call these TSRP) are very popular.  I have a few of these that I like to use in my WA-5.  The TSRP in my opinion have great extension on both sides, they are quite airy and very smooth and in my opinion.  Of course a pair of these could run you close to what you paid for your amp.  Another great tube I am currently listening to are the Sylvania Metal Base JAN 6SN7W.  I haven't heard them long enough to form an opinion, but initial impressions, are they have great extension as well, very detailed, not quite as airy as the TSRP, but I might actually like them more than the TSRP.  I am not sure that the WA-6 can use the Mullard ECC32 which is my favorite 6SN7 type of tube.
  
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Woo Audio Amp Owner checking in here, I just bought a used WA6.  Any recommendations on what tubes I should buy and where to source them?  Xcalibur255, I'd love to hear your thoughts especially.  I'm driving the K701s as well.  If you're recommending tubes please include something on sound signature as well, I know next to nothing about tubes.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes, IMHO, the TSRP's have more dynamic range than the Treasures, but when I put the TSRP's into the mix with the Sylvania's, the result is too much brightness for my tastes.  It seems that if I do not have the Sylvania's in the mix, the output from the PWD is not listenable, so the Sylvania's are the key tubes.
> 
> I've talked with the folks at PS Audio, and they are very easy to work with and they said to give 150 hours to the bridge and if after that it is not sounding right to me, send it back in and they will take a look at it.
> 
> ...


 

 Mike,
  Let the PWD burn in some more time. I went from a Threshold DAC 1e to a Theta Gen Va to the PWD. I don't have the bridge but I sued to have the DIP and now a Genesis Time Lens.
  As soon as I received the PWD I sent it to The Upgrade Company forthier Signature upgrade. When I received it back it sounded kind of funny to me. It was bright and showing some kind of resonance in the sound. I was very disappointed and close to give up on it but I let it burn in some more time and the sound smoothed out. The "echo" or resonance I heard was more under control and when I comapred it to the output of my Wadia 27 I realized that the effect was in the recording but the PWD was more detailed than the Wadia.
   
  I am so happy with the upgraded PWD that I am even thinking in selling the Wadia 27 and get another PWD for that system.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Mike,
> Let the PWD burn in some more time. I went from a Threshold DAC 1e to a Theta Gen Va to the PWD. I don't have the bridge but I sued to have the DIP and now a Genesis Time Lens.
> As soon as I received the PWD I sent it to The Upgrade Company forthier Signature upgrade. When I received it back it sounded kind of funny to me. It was bright and showing some kind of resonance in the sound. I was very disappointed and close to give up on it but I let it burn in some more time and the sound smoothed out. The "echo" or resonance I heard was more under control and when I comapred it to the output of my Wadia 27 I realized that the effect was in the recording but the PWD was more detailed than the Wadia.
> 
> I am so happy with the upgraded PWD that I am even thinking in selling the Wadia 27 and get another PWD for that system.


 

 Thanks for the encouragement.  About how long did it take until the brightness went away?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thanks for the encouragement.  About how long did it take until the brightness went away?


 


  I think it was about 120 hours when it started and continued to get better.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


wedge said:


> Welcome to the club!.  I've noticed Xcalibur uses 6SN7 with adapters, otherwise I have no knowledge of the tubes in the WA-6, other than I use RCA NOS 5U4G and waiting for EML 5U4G Mesh from Jack.  As far as 6SN7 go, there are quite a few good choices here.  Tung-Sol Round Plate (most people call these TSRP) are very popular.  I have a few of these that I like to use in my WA-5.  The TSRP in my opinion have great extension on both sides, they are quite airy and very smooth and in my opinion.  Of course a pair of these could run you close to what you paid for your amp.  Another great tube I am currently listening to are the Sylvania Metal Base JAN 6SN7W.  I haven't heard them long enough to form an opinion, but initial impressions, are they have great extension as well, very detailed, not quite as airy as the TSRP, but I might actually like them more than the TSRP.  I am not sure that the WA-6 can use the Mullard ECC32 which is my favorite 6SN7 type of tube.


 
   
  The ECC32 are a fortune anyway, I'll pass on that one.  Will all 6SN7 require adapters?  I think I will stick to a modest drive tube upgrade for now.  Jack recommends the 6DR7 - but are his modern or vintage?  I don't know much about tubes but I'm guessing I would be better off hunting down vintage 6DR7s on ebay?  Will any NOS 6DR7s do?  Do the brands have to match?  Which are the better brands, if there are any?
   
  As for the rectifiers, is the Sophia Princess 274B unanimously one of the best options?  Is there a place to source them other than Woo Audio, perhaps for cheaper?  I can't seem to find a single one on ebay.
   
  These are general questions by the way, directed at anyone that can answer them.


----------



## Wedge

If you know nothing about tubes, I think that Ebay can be a very dangerous place.  Lots of sly people trying to unload some stuff that may or may not be the real deal.  Audiogon is better place to start, I think, but again its better to go in with some knowledge of vintage tubes.  6SN7 will require an adapter.  I am not sure which tubes Jack has, but he will tell you and he is an honest guy.  I like the EML 5U4G as my rectifier, or many NOS 5U4G like RCA.  You can buy tubes from lots of places.  I buy some from Jack and others from tube sellers, tube selling web pages, depends on what I need/want, sometimes even Ebay.  Becareful, and have fun!  Congratulations on your purchase.
   
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> The ECC32 are a fortune anyway, I'll pass on that one.  Will all 6SN7 require adapters?  I think I will stick to a modest drive tube upgrade for now.  Jack recommends the 6DR7 - but are his modern or vintage?  I don't know much about tubes but I'm guessing I would be better off hunting down vintage 6DR7s on ebay?
> 
> ...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





wedge said:


> If you know nothing about tubes, I think that Ebay can be a very dangerous place.  Lots of sly people trying to unload some stuff that may or may not be the real deal.  Audiogon is better place to start, I think, but again its better to go in with some knowledge of vintage tubes.  6SN7 will require an adapter.  I am not sure which tubes Jack has, but he will tell you and he is an honest guy.  I like the EML 5U4G as my rectifier, or many NOS 5U4G like RCA.  You can buy tubes from lots of places.  I buy some from Jack and others from tube sellers, tube selling web pages, depends on what I need/want, sometimes even Ebay.  Becareful, and have fun!  Congratulations on your purchase.


 

  
  Excellent advise!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> The ECC32 are a fortune anyway, I'll pass on that one.  Will all 6SN7 require adapters?  I think I will stick to a modest drive tube upgrade for now.  Jack recommends the 6DR7 - but are his modern or vintage?  I don't know much about tubes but I'm guessing I would be better off hunting down vintage 6DR7s on ebay?  Will any NOS 6DR7s do?  Do the brands have to match?  Which are the better brands, if there are any?
> 
> ...


 

 I just did a search and found at least 5 on-line dealers with 6DR7's. These are relatively cheap tubes (ranging from $4 - $8). Can't tell you which brands are best, but since they're all in the same price range, they should be fairly similar. Best to stick with same manufactures, and matched pairs if possible (test results from tube tester).  It will take you some time to build up an inventory of tubes and roll them into your system to get use to the type of sound you like - highly addictive.


----------



## Hi-Five

shinxvc,
   
  FYI, all the power tubes that I've bought from Woo for my 6 have been NOS and very good quality.  I think he charges maybe 5 or 10 dollars more than the cheapest EML or Sophia dealers out there for the 274B/5U4G.  The piece of mind is worth it to me, he also offers a month warranty.
   
  You will have to check on the build date of your amp to know which tubes are compatible.  For later model 6's a special adapter can be used for 6sn7's (needs a specific resistor and capacitor I believe), and 6FD7s are drop-in replacements.  For earlier models this is not the case.
   
  https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
   
  I hope that is helpful, enjoy that Woo!


----------



## Hi-Five

shinxvc,
   
  FYI, all the power tubes that I've bought from Woo for my 6 have been NOS and very good quality.  I think he charges maybe 5 or 10 dollars more than the cheapest EML or Sophia dealers out there for the 274B/5U4G.  The piece of mind is worth it to me, he also offers a month warranty.
   
  You will have to check on the build date of your amp to know which tubes are compatible.  For later model 6's a special adapter can be used for 6sn7's (needs a specific resistor and capacitor I believe), and 6FD7s are drop-in replacements.  For earlier models this is not the case.
   
  https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
   
  I hope that is helpful, enjoy that Woo!


----------



## sphinxvc

Nice- thanks for the advice all, will look into the tubes while I shop for a DAC.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> The ECC32 are a fortune anyway, I'll pass on that one.  Will all 6SN7 require adapters?  I think I will stick to a modest drive tube upgrade for now.  Jack recommends the 6DR7 - but are his modern or vintage?  I don't know much about tubes but I'm guessing I would be better off hunting down vintage 6DR7s on ebay?  Will any NOS 6DR7s do?  Do the brands have to match?  Which are the better brands, if there are any?
> 
> ...


 

 All of the drive tubes for the WA6 are vintage, none have been made since the early 80's.  As some may know I am a champion of the 6SN7 adapter route for this amp because I feel, no exaggeration present in this sentence, that it doubled the performance of the amp overall.
   
  Now, having said that, I do NOT recommend you jump into this at this time.  The 6SN7 tube hunt is one that gets expensive very fast, and it is best to absorb some knowledge of tubes in general first.  Also, you must understand you are operating a tube that technically was not designed for the amp, and that is something you must be comfortable with before doing it.  Finally, given you just got the amp you should give yourself some time to get used to its as-designed sound using drop-in compatible tubes before trying other tubes via adapters.  That is my advice anyway, for what it is worth.
   
  There are a variety of 6DE7, 6FD7, 6EW7 and 6DR7 tubes available for the amp if you look around the net.  The best part is they are very affordable for the most part.  The 6FD7 tends to be the popular choice, but each type has its own character and I honestly feel the best thing to do is try one of each and let the tubes tell their story.  What headphones you are using will also matter a lot. The Sylvania 6FD7 is very well liked, but I have not heard one myself (and might have to change that just for the heck of it).  Of the tubes I tried before going to 6SN7 my favorite was a pair of RCA 6FD7 with the earlier dual black plate design, but these tubes are hard to find in this vintage.  I think the Sylvanias are a better bet, or if you are looking for a nice big soundstage and a more mellow sound the 6EW7 is a good tube to try.  Stick to the fat bottle tubes where possible (the 6FD7 and 6EW7 were made in both thin and big bottle), they tend to have better dynamics and soundstage.
   
  Before trying a Sophia or EML rectifier give a few NOS tubes a try first as well.  A Tung Sol 5U4G or RCA 5R4GY can be had for $20 NOS, and the choices don't stop there by a long shot.  In my experience the rectifiers Jack includes with the WA6 are not usually anything special (I got a 5AS4 that sounded soft and muddy), so this area in particular can be improved upon without spending much money.  If you are the type that likes to experiment and try different combinations tube rolling should be a fun experience in this amp.
   
  On the subject of buying tubes, what I did was read threads on this forum and absorbed knowledge until I was comfortable.  To address your specific questions though, they don't *technically* have to be the same brand of tube but they absolutely should be since the sound will be different from the left to right channel if you do that.  They absolutely *must* be the same type of tube in each socket, and ideally should be matched both electrically and physically.  What this means it that the seller has tested the tube in a tube tester to check its emission rate, trans-conductance and plate current.  Very often sellers will only do the first of those things, but the good part is the Woo doesn't strictly need closely matched pairs in order to operate correctly.  It is desirable if possible, but the most important thing is making sure the tube has been tested at all so you know it is safe to use in the amp.  A tube with a short or other fault can damage the amp.  Over the years the physical design of many tubes changed too, so making sure both tubes are of the same vintage is also important or you will get tone mismatches between channels.
   
  A person could make some generalizations about what the various tube brands sound like, but each person hears differently and it is just opinion.  The broad view is, if it helps narrow down choices for you, that RCA tubes tend to have a thick and warm sound, Tung Sol and GE tubes tend to have a neutral and balanced sound, Raytheons tend to have an accurate or slightly dry sound, and Sylvania tubes tend to have a lean and airy, clear sound which can be either bright or sweet sounding depending upon the specific tube.  These are big generalizations though so take them with a big grain of salt and trust your own ears.  Somebody else might disagree with part or all of what I just wrote because we each hear something unique.  Other brands are usually a rebranded version of one of the above, though there are exceptions.  Hope that helps a bit.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> All of the drive tubes for the WA6 are vintage, none have been made since the early 80's.  As some may know I am a champion of the 6SN7 adapter route for this amp because I feel, no exaggeration present in this sentence, that it doubled the performance of the amp overall.
> 
> Now, having said that, I do NOT recommend you jump into this at this time.  The 6SN7 tube hunt is one that gets expensive very fast, and it is best to absorb some knowledge of tubes in general first.  Also, you must understand you are operating a tube that technically was not designed for the amp, and that is something you must be comfortable with before doing it.  Finally, given you just got the amp you should give yourself some time to get used to its as-designed sound using drop-in compatible tubes before trying other tubes via adapters.  That is my advice anyway, for what it is worth.
> 
> ...





   
  ^ Fantastic.  Thanks for that.  I definitely am the type for tube rolling (as well as adapters) so I'll go the route you've prescribed.  I've got a few immediate targets finally: 6FD7, 6EW7, 6DR7, Tung Sol 5U4G, RCA 5R4GY.  
   
  Which rectifier do you use to compliment your 6NS7s by the way?  And which 6NS7's specifically?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sphinxvc, I went back and added a bunch of stuff to my post above after it hit the forum, so if you read it more than a minute ago you might want to do so again.  I have a bad habit of editing in additional thoughts when I post.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


>


 


> Which rectifier do you use to compliment your 6NS7s by the way?  And which 6NS7's specifically?
> 
> Thanks


 

 I primarily use an EML 274B meshplate and a Brimar 5R4GY, as they cater to my desire for a big open sound that is more laid back.  I have....... quite a few 6SN7 at this point actually.  Collecting them becomes a sickness.    I really hesitate to call them out because I truly think you should explore some of the cheaper options first, especially while the amp is new and not even broken in yet.  Needless to say I have most of the "famous" 6SN7 tubes at this point except for a few exotic european ones I cannot afford such as the Mullard ECC32, all of which have been talked about a lot in various places on Head-fi.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> All of the drive tubes for the WA6 are vintage, none have been made since the early 80's.  As some may know I am a champion of the 6SN7 adapter route for this amp because I feel, no exaggeration present in this sentence, that it doubled the performance of the amp overall.
> 
> Now, having said that, I do NOT recommend you jump into this at this time.  The 6SN7 tube hunt is one that gets expensive very fast, and it is best to absorb some knowledge of tubes in general first.  Also, you must understand you are operating a tube that technically was not designed for the amp, and that is something you must be comfortable with before doing it.  Finally, given you just got the amp you should give yourself some time to get used to its as-designed sound using drop-in compatible tubes before trying other tubes via adapters.  That is my advice anyway, for what it is worth.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Sphinxvc, I went back and added a bunch of stuff to my post above after it hit the forum, so if you read it more than a minute ago you might want to do so again.  I have a bad habit of editing in additional thoughts when I post.


 

 Thank you.  _Very_ helpful.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> All of the drive tubes for the WA6 are vintage, none have been made since the early 80's.  As some may know I am a champion of the 6SN7 adapter route for this amp because I feel, no exaggeration present in this sentence, that it doubled the performance of the amp overall.
> 
> Now, having said that, I do NOT recommend you jump into this at this time.  The 6SN7 tube hunt is one that gets expensive very fast, and it is best to absorb some knowledge of tubes in general first.  Also, you must understand you are operating a tube that technically was not designed for the amp, and that is something you must be comfortable with before doing it.  Finally, given you just got the amp you should give yourself some time to get used to its as-designed sound using drop-in compatible tubes before trying other tubes via adapters.  That is my advice anyway, for what it is worth.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Excellent post, Xcalibur255! I find it to be well stated, sound and prudent. It's tremendous comments like these that helped me out of the 'Woo Audio Box' and on my way. I started out last summer with brand new source, cables and amp, so I wanted to give myself appx 500 hours on the system as burn-in (Dac had 700+ hours; Denons 325 hours prior). 
   
  I rolled my first tubes at 432 hours. My system had it's 5th sonic change at hour 425. All five changes were noticeable, too, just slightly less with each. In anticipation of being finished with burn-in, I considered the final sound signature and decided to 'roll.' 
   
  A bit of patience now and you'll be down-the-street in no time, sphinxvc... enjoy!


----------



## brasewel

Wow very informative Xcalibur


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, XCalibur, that was one of the better posts I have seen in a while.  Couldn't have said it any better.
   
  To emphasize one point especially, the WA6 offers a unique opportunity for people somewhat new to tube rolling in that the 6DE7, 6EW7, 6FD7, and 6DR7 are, as XCalibur said, pretty cheap.  And not just that, but within each tube type, there are only a few variants.  So you can really experiment a lot for not a lot of money, and this is VERY worth doing.  These tubes are also not hard to roll in and out, so it's cheap, easy, and fun.  Can't beat that!


----------



## Golfnutz

Very nice post Xcalibur. It should be move to the first page of this Forum, as this advise could be taken for any tube driven amplifier.


----------



## Icenine2

I read somewhere that the Wyred4Sound DAC2 with the PWT with the HDMI will out perform the PWT+PWD combo.
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Mike,
> Let the PWD burn in some more time. I went from a Threshold DAC 1e to a Theta Gen Va to the PWD. I don't have the bridge but I sued to have the DIP and now a Genesis Time Lens.
> As soon as I received the PWD I sent it to The Upgrade Company forthier Signature upgrade. When I received it back it sounded kind of funny to me. It was bright and showing some kind of resonance in the sound. I was very disappointed and close to give up on it but I let it burn in some more time and the sound smoothed out. The "echo" or resonance I heard was more under control and when I comapred it to the output of my Wadia 27 I realized that the effect was in the recording but the PWD was more detailed than the Wadia.
> 
> I am so happy with the upgraded PWD that I am even thinking in selling the Wadia 27 and get another PWD for that system.


----------



## Caphead78

Jack just posted pictures of his tube adapters, they look really nice!
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/548267/new-product-universal-teflon-tube-adapter


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I read somewhere that the Wyred4Sound DAC2 with the PWT with the HDMI will out perform the PWT+PWD combo.


 

 I did not know that the W4S DAC would accept PWT signals via it's HDMI output.  I could be wrong, but I think that only the PWD will accept a PWT signal via HDMI.  It's my understanding that the PWT uses the HDMI cable only as a physical transport because of its structure but supports a [size=10pt]proprietary interface only.[/size]


----------



## emremusic

Xcalibur, would you recommend 6SN7 adapter route for Wa 6SE?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I did not know that the W4S DAC would accept PWT signals via it's HDMI output.  I could be wrong, but I think that only the PWD will accept a PWT signal via HDMI.  It's my understanding that the PWT uses the HDMI cable only as a physical transport because of its structure but supports a [size=10pt]proprietary interface only.[/size]


 

 I spoke with the guys at W4S regarding the HDMI on the W4S. They said that it is a Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format) that connects from the PWT to W4S and they said it was developed for the PWT. I believe W4S people came from the Cullen people who came from PS Audio. Look at the W4S buttons--they are the same as the PS Audio DLIII buttons.
   
  See the I2S input below:


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I spoke with the guys at W4S regarding the HDMI on the W4S. They said that it is a Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format) that connects from the PWT to W4S and they said it was developed for the PWT. I believe W4S people came from the Cullen people who came from PS Audio. Look at the W4S buttons--they are the same as the PS Audio DLIII buttons.


 

 Cool, so you can hook up a PWT to the W4S via HDMI.  Interesting.  Have you heard how it sounds?
   
  I noticed the [size=10pt]similarities to the back of the DLIII and W4S.  I just got an email back from the W4S people after posting an email to the Contact Us page of Cullen Circuits.  He said that they are no longer operating.[/size]


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I spoke with the guys at W4S regarding the HDMI on the W4S. They said that it is a Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format) that connects from the PWT to W4S and they said it was developed for the PWT. I believe W4S people came from the Cullen people who came from PS Audio. Look at the W4S buttons--they are the same as the PS Audio DLIII buttons.
> 
> See the I2S input below:


 

  

 Yes I think you are correct about coming from PS Audio. and that DAC uses the Sabre 32 ES9018 DAC, imo the ES9018 really compliments a tube amp in all areas.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Cool, so you can hook up a PWT to the W4S via HDMI.  Interesting.  Have you heard how it sounds?
> 
> I noticed the [size=10pt]similarities to the back of the DLIII and W4S.  I just got an email back from the W4S people after posting an email to the Contact Us page of Cullen Circuits.  He said that they are no longer operating.[/size]


 

 I haven't heard one yet and there is about a two-week lead time when ordering one.
   
  No longer operating? W4S is no longer operating? I wonder why. I just spoke to them about a week ago.
   
  EDIT: Sorry. I misread your post. You can no longer order products through Cullen Circuits. That means no more DLIII Mod IVs then. Dagnabit!--that is such a good DAC. But then again--there's the W4S DAC2!


----------



## Edi

The W4S2 is probably going to be my next upgrade, been looking at that one for quite awhile. Just need to wait a little bit, my LCD2 from ALO should be arriving tomorrow. heh


----------



## K_19

Random question... I remember there used to be a WA4 amp before, and I know that it is currently discontinued... does anyone have any experience with that amp? I'd reckon it wasn't all that great if Jack's decided to discontinue it... 
   
  Just wondering out of curiousity.
   
  Also makes me wonder if we'll ever see a WA1? Or has there been one in the past?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Xcalibur, would you recommend 6SN7 adapter route for Wa 6SE?


 

 In addition to Xcalibur255's forthcoming response, thought I'd I jump in with a resounding YES. 
   
  Silent One
  WA6 SE / EML 5U4G Mesh Plate; Raytheon USN-CRP-6SN7W 1949


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, XCalibur, that was one of the better posts I have seen in a while.  Couldn't have said it any better.
> 
> To emphasize one point especially, the WA6 offers a unique opportunity for people somewhat new to tube rolling in that the 6DE7, 6EW7, 6FD7, and 6DR7 are, as XCalibur said, pretty cheap.  And not just that, but within each tube type, there are only a few variants.  So you can really experiment a lot for not a lot of money, and this is VERY worth doing.  These tubes are also not hard to roll in and out, so it's cheap, easy, and fun.  Can't beat that!


 


  To be proper, in addition to xcalibur255, the other informative guiding posts came from the likes of you, dannie01, takezo, sillysally and a few others while awaiting delivery of 6SE...


----------



## Silent One

It's fast approaching 12 noon out here on the West Coast. And two very wonderful things are about to happen: Lunch... and lunchtime delivery of a Furutech Fuse!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I haven't heard one yet and there is about a two-week lead time when ordering one.
> 
> No longer operating? W4S is no longer operating? I wonder why. I just spoke to them about a week ago.
> 
> EDIT: Sorry. I misread your post. You can no longer order products through Cullen Circuits. That means no more DLIII Mod IVs then. Dagnabit!--that is such a good DAC. But then again--there's the W4S DAC2!


 

  
  I just got another email from the W4S guys, and maybe you already know this, EJ Sarmento the owner of W4S worked for Cullen Curcits for a few years before starting W4S.  And now Rick Cullen is working for them!
   
  Also he says that the PWT will output to the CAD-2 via the i2s and works very well.
   
  Are you getting a W4S dac?

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I think you are correct about coming from PS Audio. and that DAC uses the Sabre 32 ES9018 DAC, imo the ES9018 really compliments a tube amp in all areas.


 

  
  SS, do you think the chip in the W4S DAC is better than the one in the PWD for tubed headphone output?  In your thinking, can the chip very much shape a sound profile of a DAC?  I'm asking because when listening to the DLIII, the set of tubes I love do not sound as good when listening to the PWD, and the tube set that sounds good for the PWD does not sound good with the DLIII.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You guys are making me blush.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for the positive comments.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Xcalibur, would you recommend 6SN7 adapter route for Wa 6SE?


 


  Jack doesn't officially condone it the way he does for the WA6, but a number of owners here are doing it without trouble.  There is no danger to the amp per se, but rather to the 6SN7 tubes which experience a very short life in the amp without a couple of tweaks.  Glenn makes adapters with a couple of resistors built into them designed to make the tube safe for use on the SE, and at least one member I talk with regularly has used them full time for close to a year now without any problems.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You guys are making me blush.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Your posts are really good, thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Anyone currently online know which direction a Furutech fuse should be installed? No arrow, no idea. Trying it both ways but way too much environmental noises, vibrations and activities (internal/external) this time of day for critical listening...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Anyone currently online know which direction a Furutech fuse should be installed? No arrow, no idea. Trying it both ways but way too much environmental noises, vibrations and activities (internal/external) this time of day for critical listening...


 

 Perhaps it doesn't matter with that particular fuse you have.


----------



## Clayton SF

Mike--yes I was thinking of getting a W4S DAC2 about a few weeks ago. But with the cost of California taxes, shipping, etc. the total was around $1800. (Well that never stopped me before.) I decided to put it off until maybe the Summer.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike--yes I was thinking of getting a W4S DAC2 about a few weeks ago. But with the cost of California taxes, shipping, etc. the total was around $1800. (Well that never stopped me before.) I decided to put it off until maybe the Summer.


 

 What DAC are you running now?


----------



## Clayton SF

I am running the PS Audio DLIII + IV Cullen Mods. I also from time to time use the MHDT Havana DAC with the JJ 6386 LPG tube. To my ear I prefer the DLIII when driving speakers and the MHDT while listening to headphones.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Perhaps it doesn't matter with that particular fuse you have.


 

 When the noise floor drops, and the AC is on better behavior later tonight (23h00 - 23h30) I'll have a better idea. On second thought, I usually leave all mods and tweeks in for 30 days, remove the new component and reinstall previous component to see if I'm indeed, satisfied. Some gear, cable and accessories need more than just minimum hours of burn-in.
   
  Take cables for example, recommended burn-in for cable "X" might be 100-150 hrs. And in your hungry quest you achieve that in seven days. Sound signature may change some but depending on the dielectric used, it may need 21 days at rest before fully coming on song. This has been my experience inside my listening room, so I stopped burning like a mad man!
   
  All that to say, when I return to the old fuse next month (briefly), indictments are coming... and the truth with 'em! Speaking of "indictments" Clayton, listening to my 'Woo' has caused me to neglect some of my long-distance relationships the past six months. My lady friend no longer sends me things from Wahiawa. I need to communicate my absence isn't personal rather, with good audio comes addiction!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am running the PS Audio DLIII + IV Cullen Mods. I also from time to time use the MHDT Havana DAC with the JJ 6386 LPG tube. To my ear I prefer the DLIII when driving speakers and the MHDT while listening to headphones.


 

 Does the Havana seem warmer than the DLIII?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Does the Havana seem warmer than the DLIII?


 

 The DLIII is actually a lot fuller and bolder than the Havana. The Havana has slightly more detail but less all around bass punch but holds its own. It is a NOS DAC (non-oversampling DAC). I would say that the Havana is not warmer but more musical. The DLIII details have more push behind it so brass horns really are brassy in a live sounding way. Also the Havana has slightly less gain--at least with the tube I'm using.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got another email from the W4S guys, and maybe you already know this, EJ Sarmento the owner of W4S worked for Cullen Curcits for a few years before starting W4S.  And now Rick Cullen is working for them!
> 
> Also he says that the PWT will output to the CAD-2 via the i2s and works very well.
> 
> ...


 

 Mike, this was the point I was trying to make earlier. The W4S DAC-2 uses the same chip as the Oppo BDP-95. When I change tubes, there is no real noticeable difference in the 'sound profile'. Sure, there's some minor changes, but those are expected - I don't think a novice listener would notice them. This is using the HD800. I was thinking the LCD-2 might act differently with different tubes (if it wasn't hardware related).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Mike, this was the point I was trying to make earlier. The W4S DAC-2 uses the same chip as the Oppo BDP-95. When I change tubes, there is no real noticeable difference in the 'sound profile'. Sure, there's some minor changes, but those are expected - I don't think a novice listener would notice them. This is using the HD800. I was thinking the LCD-2 might act differently with different tubes (if it wasn't hardware related).


 

 Got it, and thank you.  Have you heard the BDP-95 and the DAC-2?  I'm asking because I'm trying to wrap my mind around my sound profile issues with the DLIII and PWD/bridge.  The longer I take to break in the PWD/bridge I'm finding it's brighter than the DLIII.  It feels like there is something extra in the sound that makes it harder for me to listen to.  Possibly the PWD is not broken in yet as I have heard that it needs 150 hours and I am at not quite 80.  It is also possible that even when broken in the PWD might not be to my taste and that I would need something based on the ES9018.  I'm hoping that SS can weigh in on this issue and elaborate on his earlier post about the ES9018 being complimentary to tube amps.  The PWD uses the Wolfson WM8741.  I'm very interested in how the chip effects audio, but I am not sure how to phrase the question.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Clayton-
   
  I moved my DLIII to my speaker setup when I got the W4S.  I have been close to putting it up for sale a couple of times but then I end up pouring a beer and settling in for a listening session and end up changing my mind.  It sounds very good with solid state electronics.  Of course I thought it sounded good with the WA22 also.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am running the PS Audio DLIII + IV Cullen Mods. I also from time to time use the MHDT Havana DAC with the JJ 6386 LPG tube. To my ear I prefer the DLIII when driving speakers and the MHDT while listening to headphones.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Clayton-
> 
> I moved my DLIII to my speaker setup when I got the W4S.  I have been close to putting it up for sale a couple of times but then _*I end up pouring a beer*_ and settling in for a listening session and end up changing my mind.  It sounds very good with solid state electronics.  Of course I thought it sounded good with the WA22 also.


 
  A beer. Now what a novel idea. I think I'll just listen to those speakers right now along with a nice cold glass of beer. A good Red Tail Ale will do as well!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Clayton-
> 
> I moved my DLIII to my speaker setup when I got the W4S.  I have been close to putting it up for sale a couple of times but then I end up pouring a beer and settling in for a listening session and end up changing my mind.  It sounds very good with solid state electronics.  Of course I thought it sounded good with the WA22 also.


 

 Windy,  how do the two DAC's compare with the WA22?  I take it the W4S sounded better than the DLIII?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Got it, and thank you.  Have you heard the BDP-95 and the DAC-2?  I'm asking because I'm trying to wrap my mind around my sound profile issues with the DLIII and PWD/bridge.  The longer I take to break in the PWD/bridge I'm finding it's brighter than the DLIII.  It feels like there is something extra in the sound that makes it harder for me to listen to.  Possibly the PWD is not broken in yet as I have heard that it needs 150 hours and I am at not quite 80.  It is also possible that even when broken in the PWD might not be to my taste and that I would need something based on the ES9018.  I'm hoping that SS can weigh in on this issue and elaborate on his earlier post about the ES9018 being complimentary to tube amps.  The PWD uses the Wolfson WM8741.  I'm very interested in how the chip effects audio, but I am not sure how to phrase the question.


 

 Mike, sorry I haven't. What I can tell you is the ES9018 chip does match very well with the WA22. I've never heard this much detail in any recording ever.  My home theater system is all Wilson Audio, and it doesn't even come close to the sound quality from the WA22/BDP-95 combo (balanced, unbalanced isn't as good). For example: I hated listening to Fleetwood Mac 'Rumours' CD on my HT system. I could only handle about 10 minutes at the most.  I would say I probably listen to that CD at least 5 times a week now. There are several other CD's I've started listening to again.  There's no harshness, or brightness (unless the CD suppose to be that way). The other nice thing about the 95 is that it allows you to stream audio from a NAS.  So for me, the only thing I'm missing by not having the W4S is streaming music over the internet via USB. I just plug my other HP into my computer for that.  I hope your system does break-in eventually, since I've read that the PWD/Bridge is suppose to be awesome.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just got another email from the W4S guys, and maybe you already know this, EJ Sarmento the owner of W4S worked for Cullen Curcits for a few years before starting W4S.  And now Rick Cullen is working for them!
> 
> Also he says that the PWT will output to the CAD-2 via the i2s and works very well.
> 
> ...


 

 I really can't tell you what is best for you, all I can do is suggest. As I said when you first posted your disappointment with you DAC, try a Oppo BD-95 also and that should give you a good idea of how well you like it and the DAC Sabre ES9018's, you could always send the Oppo back for a full refund if you don't like it better.
   
  Golfnutz is right on the money with what he is saying. However I think some folks are using a bridge or a external HD. I don't because I use only CD's, SACD's and Blu Rays, if I want I can copy a lot of tunes to a thumb drive or I can play back-up CD's of all my MP3's, or I could use my external HD that all these MP3's are on.
   
  What I really enjoy using a thumb drive for is to play my music videos using my BD-95 for both audio and video, I would like to see any DAC do that. Plus before I had my Smyth Realiser I used Oppo's great downmix for the analog 2Ch dedicated stereo when I would view a movie or a MC SACD.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I posted my findings a few months back in a W4S DAC forum but basically I rated the 2 in terms of my preference with the WA22 this way
   
  1) USB input on DAC2 - originally slightly better than the Coax input but now I feel it definitely is better
  2) Coax input on DAC2 - slightly better than Coax input on DL3 with cullen mods - not enough to spend the money to upgrade IMO
  3) Coax input on DL3 - almost as good as DAC2 Coax input (remembering I spent more on the DL3 with Upgrades)
  4) USB input on DL3 - there is a definite drop-off in SQ here
   
  I really love the DAC2 for a few reasons
   
  1) I listen to more HDTracks hi-rez music now than I did in the past
  2) I use it as a DAC/volume control for my powered monitors which the DL3 couldn't do
  3) I use the remote quite a bit
   

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Windy,  how do the two DAC's compare with the WA22?  I take it the W4S sounded better than the DLIII?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Got it, and thank you.  Have you heard the BDP-95 and the DAC-2?  I'm asking because I'm trying to wrap my mind around my sound profile issues with the DLIII and PWD/bridge.  The longer I take to break in the PWD/bridge I'm finding it's brighter than the DLIII.  It feels like there is something extra in the sound that makes it harder for me to listen to.  Possibly the PWD is not broken in yet as I have heard that it needs 150 hours and I am at not quite 80.  It is also possible that even when broken in the PWD might not be to my taste and that I would need something based on the ES9018.  I'm hoping that SS can weigh in on this issue and elaborate on his earlier post about the ES9018 being complimentary to tube amps.  The PWD uses the Wolfson WM8741.  I'm very interested in how the chip effects audio, but I am not sure how to phrase the question.


 

 Hmmm, my PWD or PWD/Bridge is not really brighter than my old stock DLIII, but seems to fit between the DLIII in 96K and 192K up-sampling (DLIII was brighter in 192K mode).  I don't use up-sampling with the PWD, and only use Native.  I also leave the filters on Auto.  You could try messing with the filters and stuff.  My PWD so pwned the DLIII that I sold the DLIII soon after I got the PWD.  And, the Bridge sounds better than my Macbook > PWD via optical or USB and iTunes, although my Macbook is much improved with Amara mini music player.  I haven't directly compared the Bridge to Amara Mini yet, but both are better than Mac core audio processing.


----------



## Icenine2

Check out this Nagra 300B amp from the show http://www.stereophile.com/content/nagra-300b-amplifier


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I really can't tell you what is best for you, all I can do is suggest. As I said when you first posted your disappointment with you DAC, try a Oppo BD-95 also and that should give you a good idea of how well you like it and the DAC Sabre ES9018's, you could always send the Oppo back for a full refund if you don't like it better.
> 
> Golfnutz is right on the money with what he is saying. However I think some folks are using a bridge or a external HD. I don't because I use only CD's, SACD's and Blu Rays, if I want I can copy a lot of tunes to a thumb drive or I can play back-up CD's of all my MP3's, or I could use my external HD that all these MP3's are on.
> 
> What I really enjoy using a thumb drive for is to play my music videos using my BD-95 for both audio and video, I would like to see any DAC do that. Plus before I had my Smyth Realiser I used Oppo's great downmix for the analog 2Ch dedicated stereo when I would view a movie or a MC SACD.


 

 So the thinking is that the DAC chip is a significant part of the sound signature, and the ES9018 is a good chip for tubes?  Do you have an opinion of the Wolfson chip in the PWD? I like your approach to trying the Oppo.  I'll check into their website and if they have a 30 day money back gaurantee, I may go that route.  Thank you.
  
   
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I posted my findings a few months back in a W4S DAC forum but basically I rated the 2 in terms of my preference with the WA22 this way
> 
> 1) USB input on DAC2 - originally slightly better than the Coax input but now I feel it definitely is better
> 2) Coax input on DAC2 - slightly better than Coax input on DL3 with cullen mods - not enough to spend the money to upgrade IMO
> ...


 

 Windy, this helps alot, thanks.  Especially the part about USB as it relates to coax.
  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Hmmm, my PWD or PWD/Bridge is not really brighter than my old stock DLIII, but seems to fit between the DLIII in 96K and 192K up-sampling (DLIII was brighter in 192K mode).  I don't use up-sampling with the PWD, and only use Native.  I also leave the filters on Auto.  You could try messing with the filters and stuff.  My PWD so pwned the DLIII that I sold the DLIII soon after I got the PWD.  And, the Bridge sounds better than my Macbook > PWD via optical or USB and iTunes, although my Macbook is much improved with Amara mini music player.  I haven't directly compared the Bridge to Amara Mini yet, but both are better than Mac core audio processing.


 

 Head, I am starting to get the same impression as you, that 192 was too bright on the DLIII, and as the PWD/bridge continues to break in, it seems to be in that neighborhood.  I have my filter set to auto and I am in native mode.


----------



## AndrewG

hello, I am about to buy a full size WA6SE. before I was using SR71B. I really liked the balanced sound that amp gave me. but I am moving to full size in order to get the max power and quality. do you think single ended full size will give me better than the portable balanced amp? I will post later with results once the WA6SE arrives.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





andrewg said:


> hello, I am about to buy a full size WA6SE. before I was using SR71B. I really liked the balanced sound that amp gave me. but I am moving to full size in order to get the max power and quality. do you think single ended full size will give me better than the portable balanced amp? I will post later with results once the WA6SE arrives.


 

 That's a cool question.  Don't know the answer, but please post when you find out.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Head, I am starting to get the same impression as you, that 192 was too bright on the DLIII, and as the PWD/bridge continues to break in, it seems to be in that neighborhood.  I have my filter set to auto and I am in native mode.


 

 Well, I still place the PWD treble brightness as falling between the DLIII in 96K and 192K mode.  The DLIII in 192K mode was too bright except with my old Woo GES and Stax O2.  The 96K mode was good with my brighter phones like HD800 and HE-5 with my ZDT amp, but it was too dark with my GES and O2.  In 96K mode my DLIII sounded identical to a Stello DA100 DAC that I compared side by side for 3 hours, and at the time I needed the extra brightness of the 192K mode for my GES/O2 rig.  It made no sense why the DLIII sounds warmer and smoother in 96K mode and then more spacious but brighter in 192K mode.
   
  Right now the PWD is NOT too bright with ANY of my dynamic phones and ZDT amp, but with my Sennheiser HE60 electrostatics and Woo WES the sound is a little bright; more the fault of the phones than the DAC, except the DLIII in 96K mode helped tame their highs nicely with both the Woo GES and the WES.
   
  Again, you might want to try some of the DAC's filter settings, and stay away from up-sampling although it seems to not affect the PWD sound as much as it did with the DLIII.  And, if you have found tubes for the Woo amp that pair well with the PWD DAC, isn't that good enough to have found synergy that works for you?


----------



## MacedonianHero

I always considered my (now sold) DLIII slightly warm. The classic PS Audio sound....warm side of neutral. I found slightly better sound staging with 19k2 over 96k, but both were to my ears warm-ish. But the 192k didn't seem as "lush" as the 96k, but I always attributed that to the more open sound stage of the 192k setting.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


headphoneaddict said:


> Well, I still place the PWD treble brightness as falling between the DLIII in 96K and 192K mode.  The DLIII in 192K mode was too bright except with my old Woo GES and Stax O2.  The 96K mode was good with my brighter phones like HD800 and HE-5 with my ZDT amp, but it was too dark with my GES and O2.  In 96K mode my DLIII sounded identical to a Stello DA100 DAC that I compared side by side for 3 hours, and at the time I needed the extra brightness of the 192K mode for my GES/O2 rig.  It made no sense why the DLIII sounds warmer and smoother in 96K mode and then more spacious but brighter in 192K mode.
> 
> Right now the PWD is NOT too bright with ANY of my dynamic phones and ZDT amp, but with my Sennheiser HE60 electrostatics and Woo WES the sound is a little bright; more the fault of the phones than the DAC, except the DLIII in 96K mode helped tame their highs nicely with both the Woo GES and the WES.
> 
> Again, you might want to try some of the DAC's filter settings, and stay away from up-sampling although it seems to not affect the PWD sound as much as it did with the DLIII.  And, if you have found tubes for the Woo amp that pair well with the PWD DAC, isn't that good enough to have found synergy that works for you?


 

  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I always considered my (now sold) DLIII slightly warm. The classic PS Audio sound....warm side of neutral. I found slightly better sound staging with 19k2 over 96k, but both were to my ears warm-ish. But the 192k didn't seem as "lush" as the 96k, but I always attributed that to the more open sound stage of the 192k setting.


 


 Thanks guys for sharing your experiences.  I've come to the conclusion that the sound of the PWD is not for me, and made a decision to sell it.  I paid $2400.00 for it, and I'm going to sell it for $2200.00.  I'm also going to sell the LCD-2 which I bought in hopes of taming the highs.  I bought them from ALO with their Chain Mail cord for $1370.00 and I'm going to sell them for $1100.00.   Will post the sale notice later today.  If anyone is interested send me a PM.


----------



## shipsupt

mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry the new gear's not working out for you. I'm sure the LCD's will go fast at that price! Did you consider keeping them to see if they grew on you in a system that didn't contain a component that was not working for your ears (the PWD)? Just curious...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Ship, good question, I did consider keeping them, but I bought them to solve a brightness issue with the PWD.  In comparing their sound signature with the HD800 (I would A/B them during a song), I found the HD800 sound delicate and having more nuanced qualities than the LCD-2.  I liked the woodiness of the the LCD-2, but I want to hear all of the details that the HD800's revealed.  So, even though the LCD-2's are really good 'phones, and definately worth the money, I'm looking for something that touches all of the bases for me all of the time.  I also found the LCD-2's tonally correct.


----------



## Golfnutz

Mike, please do not take this the wrong way. All of you complaints so far have been about having a bright sound (TSRP, 7236, PWD, etc.). Is it possible there's something wrong with your WA22 causing this issue? Can you compare your WA22 with someone else? If not, what about sending it back to WOO Audio to be evaluated. Also, as SS suggested, purchase the Oppo BDP-95 with the intention of returning it before 30. If it still sounds bright with ANY of your tubes, then I would say it's the WA22.  Of course this is all moot if you think the WA22 is working normally.


----------



## Skylab

IMHO, the HD800 are bright. Connected to an amp that isn't colored, they stay bright.


----------



## WindyCityCy

HD800 don't sound bright in my configuration.  Guess I've picked the right combo.    Touch --> W4S DAC2 --> WA22 (GEC 6AS7G, NU, EML 5U4G) --> DHC Clone balanced cable --> HD800.  With the WA22 and my DAC if I could keep only 1 of my headphones I would keep them.  However, I really like the LCD2 also and am using each about 50% of the time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

An important question that may not have come up yet is what kind of music mike is listening to.  No amount of equipment tinkering will really fix material that is mastered with too much treble energy, which includes most everything that isn't aimed at the hifi community in the first place like HDtracks products.  I must admit though, I've come surprisingly close to getting some radio friendly music sounding just the way I want it on the WA6, something I would not have thought possible with my headphones a year ago.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Mike, please do not take this the wrong way. All of you complaints so far have been about having a bright sound (TSRP, 7236, PWD, etc.). Is it possible there's something wrong with your WA22 causing this issue? Can you compare your WA22 with someone else? If not, what about sending it back to WOO Audio to be evaluated. Also, as SS suggested, purchase the Oppo BDP-95 with the intention of returning it before 30. If it still sounds bright with ANY of your tubes, then I would say it's the WA22.  Of course this is all moot if you think the WA22 is working normally.


 

 Golf,
   
  Not at all, and I thank you for your helpful suggestion.  The TSRP brightness was only in the round micas, not the oval micas. My WA22 only sounded bright with the PWD/bridge but not with the DLIII.  However, I did not even think that the WA22 might be the issue, and I'll email Jack and see what he says.
   
  The breakin of the PWD/bridge finished and I could hear its sound signature evolve.  While it became very detailed and revealing, I found that there was just this "something extra" that I don't know what to call that drive me up the wall.  I also found that ultimately the bridge wound up to be superior to coax.
   
  One of the other guys here who has a DLIII and PWD/bridge, by way of example, talked about a harshness in the DLIII when he sets it at 192, but that is not there at 96, and the PWD is somewhere in between the 96 and 192 setting.  This is my experience too.  With the EML, TSRP and GEC6AS7G and HD800 combination being fed by my DLIII, I find the detail to be similiar to what the PWD/bridge delivers, but that "something extra" thing is not there, and my experience of the music is something that is detaled, with bass heft, tonaly correct and natural.
   
  I think that SS has a very good idea about trying an Oppo since I am looking to break out of the iTunes walled garden 44.1 Hz limitation.  One of the guys here says he has a Wilson Audio setup and it wasn't until he added the Oppo into the mix that he was able to get past a harshness issue and into the music.  That it has a LAN connection is a definate plus as I can feed it directly from a media server.  The W4S dac has the same chip, but to listen to hirez music you need to feed it through a computer's sound card, and I'd like to get away from that.  I might take a step back and look at something like the Logitec SqueezeBox as it has a digital output that I can feed into my Monarchy DIP and then into any DAC to a W4S is a candidate.  Maybe if other's know of a really good, musical server with a digital output, I'd love to hear about it.
   
  From the little I was able to hear of 96 and above music, it is worth the hassle of trying to find the right DAC/Media Server Appliance combination.  I used to be a strict CD guy, but I find that I really love haveing complete access to my entire music collection and then playing it at random.
   
  Again, thanks for your suggestion, I appreciate you taking the time to put something out there that would benefit me.
   
  EDIT: After posting this, I went looking for the guy with the Wilson Audio setup to thank him for sharing his Oppo experience, and what do you know, but it was you Golf!


----------



## shipsupt

Mike,
What do you mean by the iTunes 44.1 hz limitation? My understanding is that iTunes is quite capable of playing higher sample rates. Am I misinformed or missing the point?


----------



## Skylab

ITunes now supports 96/24 no problem. It didn't used to, but a while back they added that support.


----------



## crazyscarecrow

Golfnutz: What do you think of your WA22 with balanced inputs from your Oppo 95? Can't decide between balance path and the WA22 or going single through a WA5??


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





skylab said:


> ITunes now supports 96/24 no problem. It didn't used to, but a while back they added that support.


 

 Better still if you are running a Mac is to add the Pure Music software to iTunes, you can then not only do high-res but also import and playback native FLAC files. 
   
  The sound I am getting with 24/96 downloads from HD Tracks is as good and often better than the high-end vinyl counterpart and standard CD's benefit greatly as well. 
   
  It is by far one of the best investments I have made in this hobby, for $129 it really is a steal. 
   
  Add an iPad and you instantly have a remote controlled music server limited only by the quality of your DAC.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


shipsupt said:


> Mike,
> What do you mean by the iTunes 44.1 hz limitation? My understanding is that iTunes is quite capable of playing higher sample rates. Am I misinformed or missing the point?


 

 Quote:


skylab said:


> ITunes now supports 96/24 no problem. It didn't used to, but a while back they added that support.


 

 Sorry guys, I should have been more precise.  My iPod will not support anything over a sample rate of 44.1, Skylab is right, iTunes will support 96/24.   I'm using an iPod and Wadia i170 combo to output a digital signal to my DLIII.  That is what I was referring to when I spoke of the iTunes 44.1 walled garden.  I should have said an *iPod 44.1 walled garden*.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





crazyscarecrow said:


> Golfnutz: What do you think of your WA22 with balanced inputs from your Oppo 95? Can't decide between balance path and the WA22 or going single through a WA5??


 


 X2!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sorry guys, I should have been more precise.  My iPod will not support anything over a sample rate of 44.1, Skylab is right, iTunes will support 96/24.   I'm using an iPod and Wadia i170 combo to output a digital signal to my DLIII.  That is what I was referring to when I spoke of the iTunes 44.1 walled garden.  I should have said an *iPod 44.1 walled garden*.


 

 Not to continue to be a pest, but I use an iPod + Wadia, and the iPod supports 48K, and will pass that to the Wadia and on to the DAC.  Only 16 bit, though.


----------



## crazyscarecrow

mikemalter said:


> X2!



Mike: I take it you like your WA22 and LCD2 combo? Are you running it balanced out to LCDs or single? I have LCD2s and Oppo 95 with WA22 on order....thoughts?


----------



## grokit

+1 on PureMusic. I just realized that it saves your place in iTunes when you quit/restart it in regards to song/playlist selection; iTunes alone can't do that.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





crazyscarecrow said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Finally, someone else with have the WA22/BDP-95 combination (at least on order). I think I read somewhere the LCD-2's require 2W of power to run efficiently. Therefore, based on Woo Audio's website; "Output: 810 mw with 6080, 2 watts with 7236 power tubes" you'll need either 7236 or 5998 power tubes, EML 5U4G (GZ37 also sounds very good for half the price), and I don't care what driver tube (TSRP would be nice though). I think you'll be blown away. Also, I recommend balanced because you are getting double the voltage to the WA22 (1.3 x 2), which is suppose to give you and additional 3db.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> HD800 don't sound bright in my configuration.  Guess I've picked the right combo.    Touch --> W4S DAC2 --> WA22 (GEC 6AS7G, NU, EML 5U4G) --> DHC Clone balanced cable --> HD800.  With the WA22 and my DAC if I could keep only 1 of my headphones I would keep them.  However, I really like the LCD2 also and am using each about 50% of the time.


 

 Mine either. As well, Mike has the same cables (Cardas XLR - I think I read that somewhere?), which really helps to remove any brightness the HD800's do have.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Golf,
> 
> Not at all, and I thank you for your helpful suggestion.  The TSRP brightness was only in the round micas, not the oval micas. My WA22 only sounded bright with the PWD/bridge but not with the DLIII.  However, I did not even think that the WA22 might be the issue, and I'll email Jack and see what he says.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't want to come off sounding like some kind of Oppo Fanboy.  There are better sources out there, but for $1k you really do get a lot for your money.  The 95 plays up to 24/192 hirez files.  I've downloaded the samples from HDTracks and they're probably the best recordings I've ever heard. I don't like the interface on the 95 either. You need something to view the menu, which will allow you to select files via the network connection (I use my computer monitor). Sometimes I find it slow as well.  I think you can play songs randomly, but that might depend on how you've loaded your files on the network (1 folder vs multiple folders)
   
  I've never hooked the 95 up to my HT system. I use the BDP-83 in that system. I was just comparing the sound of the HD800/WA22/BDP-95 with my HT, and the HT system doesn't come close for music.  I just find it difficult to sit there for more then 1-2 hours without getting some type of listening fatigue.  With the Headphones, I can listen to them for 40hrs/week and still want more.


----------



## crazyscarecrow

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Finally, someone else with have the WA22/BDP-95 combination (at least on order). I think I read somewhere the LCD-2's require 2W of power to run efficiently. Therefore, based on Woo Audio's website; "Output: 810 mw with 6080, 2 watts with 7236 power tubes" you'll need either 7236 or 5998 power tubes, EML 5U4G (GZ37 also sounds very good for half the price), and I don't care what driver tube (TSRP would be nice though). I think you'll be blown away. Also, I recommend balanced because you are getting double the voltage to the WA22 (1.3 x 2), which is suppose to give you and additional 3db.


 

 Outstanding!  Great to hear; was worried I would have to go with WA5LE.   I have the 7236 upgrade on order as well--sounds like Oppo95>WA22>LCD-2 via balanced is a "keeper"!  Didn't have the EMLs coming though...may have to add that.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





crazyscarecrow said:


> Outstanding!  Great to hear; was worried I would have to go with WA5LE.   I have the 7236 upgrade on order as well--sounds like Oppo95>WA22>LCD-2 via balanced is a "keeper"!  Didn't have the *EMLs* coming though...may have to add that.


 

 I agree with the balanced outs the Oppo sounds like a great match for the WA22. Just remember that you only need one rectifier for it


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I agree with the balanced outs the Oppo sounds like a great match for the WA22. Just remember that you only need one rectifier for it


 

 Yes that's right the Oppo BD-95 is a great match with a higher end Woo like the WA22 with its balanced XLR 2Ch analog outs. But for your HE-6's the WA22 will not power the HE-6's very well, you would have to go to a WA5/LE for the HE-6's. And yes the BD-95 and the HE-6 is a great match with the WA5/LE.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Not to continue to be a pest, but I use an iPod + Wadia, and the iPod supports 48K, and will pass that to the Wadia and on to the DAC.  Only 16 bit, though.


 

 Not a pest at all.  We should have the right stuff out there to keep everything clear.  Yes, 48 Hz is supported.  I have not tried 48.  How does it compare to 41?  What formats have you used?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





crazyscarecrow said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I love my WA22.  I am running balanced, however there has been some discussion that the type of output to your headphones is not as much of a concern as input in.  I think its universally agreed that balanced in makes a big difference.  Have not heard the Oppo 95, but there are people here who swear by it, and it comes highly recommended by credible people.
   
  When did you place your order?
   
  Also, there are some really great tube rolling posts here, so after you get your WA22 fired up and settled down, you might want to check those posts out.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I don't want to come off sounding like some kind of Oppo Fanboy.  There are better sources out there, but for $1k you really do get a lot for your money.  The 95 plays up to 24/192 hirez files.  I've downloaded the samples from HDTracks and they're probably the best recordings I've ever heard. I don't like the interface on the 95 either. You need something to view the menu, which will allow you to select files via the network connection (I use my computer monitor). Sometimes I find it slow as well.  I think you can play songs randomly, but that might depend on how you've loaded your files on the network (1 folder vs multiple folders)
> 
> I've never hooked the 95 up to my HT system. I use the BDP-83 in that system. I was just comparing the sound of the HD800/WA22/BDP-95 with my HT, and the HT system doesn't come close for music.  I just find it difficult to sit there for more then 1-2 hours without getting some type of listening fatigue.  With the Headphones, I can listen to them for 40hrs/week and still want more.


 

 I just realized that the Oppo has a DAC, and I am really looking for an appliance I can attach to my network that can transport digital files via coax to my DAC.  I think that I'm going to look for just the, I don't even know what you call it, a digital media transport like a Roku or a Logitech SqueezeBox.  I'm looking for something high quality.  I actually have a Roku from 3 years ago that I just dusted off and am playing Radio Paradise on it, and I think I am on to something.  I'm looking at the SqueezeBox as it will play iTunes files as well as up to 24/96.  I would rather have something that will do 192/24 and beyond, but I'm not sure if something like that is out there.  Maybe someone here will know.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes that's right the Oppo BD-95 is a great match with a higher end Woo like the WA22 with its balanced XLR 2Ch analog outs. But for your HE-6's the WA22 will not power the HE-6's very well, you would have to go to a WA5/LE for the HE-6's. And yes the BD-95 and the HE-6 is a great match with the WA5/LE.


 

 I know, the WA22 will never drive the HE-6 properly even with the higher voltage out of the 95's XLRs. I also am not interested in an optical transport as I typically rip a CD into lossless and then store it away; I keep my iTunes library on three separate Macs around the house. My WA22 has been converted to dual XLR inputs and they are occupied by a balanced DAC and phono stage. I will keep using my speaker amp rig for the HE-6 and K1000:
   

   
  Two floors away from my main rig in the attic bedroom: there's a Devilsound v2 cable between the tube buffer stage I just added and the PowerBook, which is running Pure Music/ALAC. ALO-made speaker tap extension to 4-pin XLR to mate with HE-6/KK. It's a balanced SS amp so I could see upgrading to a Havana balanced tube DAC to compliment it but the Devilsound sounds great in this setup so SE in, balanced out for now. My next "upgrade" will most likely be to re-acquire an HD800 for the WA22 rig, as I still have a balanced cable for it.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yeah I know, the WA22 will never drive the HE-6 properly even with the higher voltage out of the 95's XLRs. I also am not interested in an optical transport as I typically rip a CD into lossless and then store it away. My WA22 has been converted to dual XLR inputs and they are occupied by a balanced DAC and phono stage. I will keep using my speaker amp rig for the HE-6 and K1000:
> 
> 
> 
> Two floors away from my main rig in the attic bedroom: there's a Devilsound v2 cable between the tube buffer stage I just added a to it and the PowerBook, which is running Pure Music/ALAC. ALO-made speaker tap extension to 4-pin XLR to mate with HE-6/KK. It's a balanced SS amp so I could see upgrading to a Havana balanced tube DAC but the Devilsound sounds great in this setup so SE in, balanced out for now. My next "upgrade" will most likely be to re-acquire the HD800 instead.


 

 Grokit, how do you like your Powerbook as a music server?


----------



## Wedge

I spoke to Jack about the termination, electrically the XLR and 1/4" are the same on the WA-22 the biggest difference is the connector type used.  So if you prefer the sound of the XLR you like those connectors better than the sound out of the 1/4".  I at first thought I heard a big difference but it turns out to be because I used 2 different cables (different conductor count, same conductor type).  When I used the same cable out of either the differences became minimal, and no difference in power.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I recommend balanced because you are getting double the voltage to the WA22 (1.3 x 2), which is suppose to give you and additional 3db.


----------



## grokit

Wedge I believe Golfnutz is referring to the additional voltage in to the WA22 and out of the Oppo, attributing the additional db to the Oppo's balanced XLR outputs vs. its SE outputs.


----------



## Wedge

You might be right, but I believe the original question was, "...are you running balanced out to LCD-2 or single?", so I was addressing the electrical difference at the various outputs of the WA-22.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit, how do you like your Powerbook as a music server?


 

 Very much! I had a few different G4 Powerbooks and this is the one I never had any problems with and my favorite with the exception of the RAM limitation (1.25 GB for the 12"). Now that it's almost useless for surfing the web it's great that it found new life as a music server. It replaced an iPad that I had for a while and while it was cool (I guess...), it didn't have iTunes and it wasn't a computer. This will control my entire library directly, or control Airtunes, or access another computer's library wirelessly; I can rip CDs and update album art via its DVD drive and wireless capabilities with it if I wanted (I don't), or use it to update an iPod (I do), all with a full keyboard, trackpad, wireless remote, Time Machine auto-backup, built-in optical audio output, USB/Firewire etc. Also there are no gestures required (which to me is a weird combination of shorthand and finger-painting). And after all these years no dead pixels! Did I mention that it works during power outages?


----------



## SDMAN

From a recent Woo purchaser, who could not be happier with said purchase.
   
  Well, Im back on long hours again (68 hours last week, 72 this week and easily 80 next), meaning frequent late nite PCB design sessions (Im having one right now). The very reason I bought my Woo WA22 and T1's. The tubes have burned in nicely, the T1's really sound nice with the balanced cable conversion, and tomorrow nite Ill hook up the new balanced CD player (delivered today), which should make for a noticeable improvement everywhere. (Im using a non balanced, nothing special, CD player at the moment that used to be part of my home theatre).
   
  Im alone, its quiet (no conversations or phones ringing) and I can turn up the amp, listen to whatever is playing and stare into the screen placing parts and routing traces with NO interruptions. Next stop......midnite. Or perhaps dawn. Time really does fly when youre having fun. Now where did those Frank Zappa CD's go?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just realized that the Oppo has a DAC, and I am really looking for an appliance I can attach to my network that can transport digital files via coax to my DAC.  I think that I'm going to look for just the, I don't even know what you call it, a digital media transport like a Roku or a Logitech SqueezeBox.  I'm looking for something high quality.  I actually have a Roku from 3 years ago that I just dusted off and am playing Radio Paradise on it, and I think I am on to something.  I'm looking at the SqueezeBox as it will play iTunes files as well as up to 24/96.  I would rather have something that will do 192/24 and beyond, but I'm not sure if something like that is out there.  Maybe someone here will know.


 

 Mike, I have a Slim Devices (Logitech) Transporter Network Music Player. I love it (see signiture), but it wont play 192/24 natively, but it will downsample to 96/24. Take a look here for what you need.
http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players





   
  Lately, I have been using TS 7236 or 5998 for power and TS BGRP for drivers, and EML 5U4G mesh for rectifier. I think I have tamed the HD 800s by following to an extent the advice/opinion found on this thread (see feifan); http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496130/audeze-lcd2-vs-sennheiser-hd800/675#post_7265865
   
  John M
   
  ps. are the GEC 6as7s that Glenn tested working out?


----------



## crazyscarecrow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I love my WA22.  I am running balanced, however there has been some discussion that the type of output to your headphones is not as much of a concern as input in.  I think its universally agreed that balanced in makes a big difference.  Have not heard the Oppo 95, but there are people here who swear by it, and it comes highly recommended by credible people.
> 
> When did you place your order?
> 
> Also, there are some really great tube rolling posts here, so after you get your WA22 fired up and settled down, you might want to check those posts out.


 
  Thanks for the feedback!  I ordered my WA22 about two weeks ago.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just realized that the Oppo has a DAC, and I am really looking for an appliance I can attach to my network that can transport digital files via coax to my DAC.  I think that I'm going to look for just the, I don't even know what you call it, a digital media transport like a Roku or a Logitech SqueezeBox.  I'm looking for something high quality.  I actually have a Roku from 3 years ago that I just dusted off and am playing Radio Paradise on it, and I think I am on to something.  I'm looking at the SqueezeBox as it will play iTunes files as well as up to 24/96.  I would rather have something that will do 192/24 and beyond, but I'm not sure if something like that is out there.  Maybe someone here will know.


 


 Understood.  I'm not there yet.  If you're looking for high quality, I would suggest checking out the Chord QBD76.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





sdman said:


> From a recent Woo purchaser, who could not be happier with said purchase.
> 
> Well, Im back on long hours again (68 hours last week, 72 this week and easily 80 next), meaning frequent late nite PCB design sessions (Im having one right now). The very reason I bought my Woo WA22 and T1's. The tubes have burned in nicely, the T1's really sound nice with the balanced cable conversion, and tomorrow nite Ill hook up the new balanced CD player (delivered today), which should make for a noticeable improvement everywhere. (Im using a non balanced, nothing special, CD player at the moment that used to be part of my home theatre).
> 
> Im alone, its quiet (no conversations or phones ringing) and I can turn up the amp, listen to whatever is playing and stare into the screen placing parts and routing traces with NO interruptions. Next stop......midnite. Or perhaps dawn. Time really does fly when youre having fun. Now where did those Frank Zappa CD's go?


 

 Which CD player did you order?


----------



## fatcat28037

I'm a bit confused by what you understood Jack to say. Are you saying the 4 pin XLR o/p in not balanced or that you believe the TSR (1/4") is balanced? Or am I missing your point completely.
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> I spoke to Jack about the termination, electrically the XLR and 1/4" are the same on the WA-22 the biggest difference is the connector type used.  So if you prefer the sound of the XLR you like those connectors better than the sound out of the 1/4".  I at first thought I heard a big difference but it turns out to be because I used 2 different cables (different conductor count, same conductor type).  When I used the same cable out of either the differences became minimal, and no difference in power.


----------



## Wedge

I honestly never bothered to look how it is terminated.  According to Jack, the 1/4" and XLR are technically wired the same.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/456258/wa22-internal-pictures/30#post_7258747

  Jack posted this.
  
  Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> I'm a bit confused by what you understood Jack to say. Are you saying the 4 pin XLR o/p in not balanced or that you believe the TSR (1/4") is balanced? Or am I missing your point completely.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Not a pest at all.  We should have the right stuff out there to keep everything clear.  Yes, 48 Hz is supported.  I have not tried 48.  How does it compare to 41?  What formats have you used?


 


  I have imported 96/24 WAV files into iTunes, and then taken those same files and used dBPoweramp to convert them to 48/16, and imported them into iTunes, and then converted both to Apple Lossless, so I would have the full hi-res versions for future use, as well as the 48/16 ones for the iPod/iPad.  I cannot swear they would sound better than they would at 44.1/16, but there are reasons to assume they would - one of the biggest is that it easier mathematically to convert from 96 to 48 than from 96 to 44.1. 
   
  BTW, add me to the list of very happy Oppo BDP-95 owners.  Nice piece of kit, that.


----------



## fatcat28037

So both o/ps recieve the same amplified signal but the XLR o/p is balanced, with a left & right common and the TSR is unbalanced with a single common.
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> I honestly never bothered to look how it is terminated.  According to Jack, the 1/4" and XLR are technically wired the same.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/456258/wa22-internal-pictures/30#post_7258747
> 
> Jack posted this.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have imported 96/24 WAV files into iTunes, and then taken those same files and used dBPoweramp to convert them to 48/16, and imported them into iTunes, and then converted both to Apple Lossless, so I would have the full hi-res versions for future use, as well as the 48/16 ones for the iPod/iPad.  I cannot swear they would sound better than they would at 44.1/16, but there are reasons to assume they would - one of the biggest is that it easier mathematically to convert from 96 to 48 than from 96 to 44.1.
> 
> BTW, add me to the list of very happy Oppo BDP-95 owners.  Nice piece of kit, that.


 

 Sky,  I did the same thing you did, although I don't remember the tool I used - is was one of those trial periods for paid software.  I found out the hard way that 96/24 music will not play in an iPod after importing it.  Then I converted the the 96/24 music to 44/16 apple lossless and after importing into iTunes it would play on my iPod.  Comparing the two albums, one off of the iPod and the other from the PWD/bridge, except for digital glare, there was more of a sense of space when I played it on the PWD, but only by a touch.  The biggest difference was between regular music and hi-rez music played digitally from my iPod.  That sense of space and extra detail was amply present when compared to "regular" music.  So, until the iPod will support 96/24, converting to Apple Lossless 44-48/16 is an alternative, albiet labor intensive.
  
  It may actually come to that for me as I am finding that these network streaming devices tend to the harsh side.  I just broke out my old Roku and am streaming internet radio and music from my music server.  I find the level of detail stunning, but, there is the glare and harshness issue.  I just ordered a Logitech Squeezebox which was compared to the Roku in a Stereophile review, and the author found that the Squeezebox was not as harsh as the Roku, so I am keeping my fingers crossed.
   
  Glad to hear you like the Oppo.  If the Logitech does not work out, that is next on my list.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have imported 96/24 WAV files into iTunes, and then taken those same files and used dBPoweramp to convert them to 48/16, and imported them into iTunes, and then converted both to Apple Lossless, so I would have the full hi-res versions for future use, as well as the 48/16 ones for the iPod/iPad.  I cannot swear they would sound better than they would at 44.1/16, but there are reasons to assume they would - one of the biggest is that it easier mathematically to convert from 96 to 48 than from 96 to 44.1.
> 
> BTW, add me to the list of very happy Oppo BDP-95 owners.  Nice piece of kit, that.


 


   


  Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> So both o/ps recieve the same amplidied signal but the XLR o/p is balanced, with a left & right common and the TSR is unbalanced with a single common.


 

 The balanced signal ends at the output transformer. The output of the 22 is single ended but in a 1/4" jack you have a common ground
  and with the XLR each right and left phone has a dedicated ground so the possibility of cross talk is less but it is not balanced.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Mike, I have a Slim Devices (Logitech) Transporter Network Music Player. I love it (see signiture), but it wont play 192/24 natively, but it will downsample to 96/24. Take a look here for what you need.
> http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players
> 
> 
> ...


 

 John, thanks a lot for the Linn link.  I have a queue of media streaming devices I'm working through, and will add this one to the list, it sure looks high-end, but after all it is Linn.  I dusted off my 3 year old Roku, and streamed digital music still has that digital glare with it.  I ordered a Squeezebox Touch last night and we'll see how that goes.
   
  The GEC tuces that Glenn tested are working our very well.  They turned out to be a perfect matched pair, even across channels!  Then with the extra tubes I bought from you I have a closely matched pair as backup.  I really like the GEC as I find it pairs exceptionally well with the TS BGRP and the EML.  For my ears, the HD800 mates well with my tube set as it is very revealing with hefty bass and a certian delicateness that allows me to get into the nuances of the music.
   
  I'll post my reactions to the Squeezebox.


----------



## fatcat28037

It has always been my understanding the WA22 XLR outputs are balanced. It's described on the Woo website as a fully balanced amp.
  Doesn't a seperate left & right ground at the o/p make it balanced? 
  Quote: 





			
				2359glenn said:
			
		

> The balanced signal ends at the output transformer. The output of the 22 is single ended but in a 1/4" jack you have a common ground
> and with the XLR each right and left phone has a dedicated ground so the possibility of cross talk is less but it is not balanced.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have imported 96/24 WAV files into iTunes, and then taken those same files and used dBPoweramp to convert them to 48/16, and imported them into iTunes, and then converted both to Apple Lossless, so I would have the full hi-res versions for future use, as well as the 48/16 ones for the iPod/iPad.  I cannot swear they would sound better than they would at 44.1/16, but there are reasons to assume they would - one of the biggest is that it easier mathematically to convert from 96 to 48 than from 96 to 44.1.
> 
> BTW, add me to the list of very happy Oppo BDP-95 owners.  Nice piece of kit, that.


 

  
  Skylab, congrats on your Oppo purchase. Good to hear you're very happy with it too. Initially mine sounded a bit bright out of the box. After about a week of continuous playing, it seems to have broken in nicely.  I'd be curious to see what your take on it is with balanced vs. unbalanced - whether or not you hear much difference.


----------



## Golfnutz

Received this from Jack at Woo Audio - [size=small] Please also look for our new DAC announcement in a few weeks. It will be the next new product.[/size]


----------



## Wedge

Yeah I am really interested in seeing Jack's DAC.


----------



## Golfnutz

I hope that's all your going to look at


----------



## Icenine2

Just a head's up.  Alex Cavalli will start taking orders Monday for the Liquid Fire.  http://www.cavalliaudio.com/lf.php
   
  Nice looking for sure.  Their were some reports out of CanJam that said it paired really well w/the LCD.  Man that would be a nice second rig w/the WA22 I have!


----------



## shipsupt

mikemalter said:


> I just realized that the Oppo has a DAC, and I am really looking for an appliance I can attach to my network that can transport digital files via coax to my DAC.  I think that I'm going to look for just the, I don't even know what you call it, a digital media transport like a Roku or a Logitech SqueezeBox.  I'm looking for something high quality.  I actually have a Roku from 3 years ago that I just dusted off and am playing Radio Paradise on it, and I think I am on to something.  I'm looking at the SqueezeBox as it will play iTunes files as well as up to 24/96.  I would rather have something that will do 192/24 and beyond, but I'm not sure if something like that is out there.  Maybe someone here will know.




It certainly seems that most of these guys want to stuff a DAC in these devices, which means many of us pay for it with no intention of using it. It kind of leads one back to using a computer to set up a simple music server since what we are after is getting bit perfect output to our DAC of choice, right?


----------



## Skylab

golfnutz said:


> Skylab, congrats on your Oppo purchase. Good to hear you're very happy with it too. Initially mine sounded a bit bright out of the box. After about a week of continuous playing, it seems to have broken in nicely.  I'd be curious to see what your take on it is with balanced vs. unbalanced - whether or not you hear much difference.




Unfortunately, for the moment, it is too logistically challenging to run balanced interconnects from the Oppo to my Cary preamp, which is a pity, since I have an open balanced input on the Cary. But the wiring task to get from the Oppo to the Cary with XLR ends is just not gonna happen, sadly. The curse of having my gear in build-in cabinets.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> It certainly seems that most of these guys want to stuff a DAC in these devices, _*which means many of us pay for it with no intention of using it*_. It kind of leads one back to using a computer to set up a simple music server since what we are after is getting bit perfect output to our DAC of choice, right?


 

 But one never really knows if the integrated DAC may we worth the price of the whole and someone could end up with a very good DAC as part of the package--subjectively speaking of course. After all, the Leben CS300XS is sold as an integrated amp and we know how popular it is as a headphone amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But one never really knows if the integrated DAC may we worth the price of the whole and someone could end up with a very good DAC as part of the package--subjectively speaking of course. After all, the Leben CS300XS is sold as an integrated amp and we know how popular it is as a headphone amp.


 

 Oppo BDP-95 revisited.
   
  For me, the BDP-95 would be a very smart buy. At once, it would solve a current dilemma and one that's looming. I'm in the market for a better DAC and my primary computer (17" Notebook) is four years plus and could use more memory, new OS and internal drive. Computers age in dog years, and though it performs (and has) flawlessly I'd rather not reinvest; refurbish. 
   
  The BDP-95 would allow me to commandeer my current dedicated music server (2010 Mac mini; 8GB Ram; SSD; 4 external HDD's) for use as my primary computer. And remove the current DAC from service. All for One Grand... _voila! _


----------



## dminches

MM, there are 2 options I would currently recommend if you are going to go the Squeezebox route.  Option 1 is to buy a transporter, their original signature player, and have it modded by Dan Wright at Modwright.  This will play anything up to 24/96 and can also serve as a DAC.  The mod is a tube mode which adds 2 6SN7-family tube drivers and a 5U4G rectifier.  It is a great sounding machine.  Your other option is to get a Touch and buy a DAC to go with it.  If you need 24/192 capabilities then I would go this route.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I know.  I want something that just streams audio from my network, nothing else.  I ordered a Logitech Touch yesterday.  We'll see what the quality is there.  Hopefully it will work as I just don't want to have to spend over 6K for a Linn transport.  I think what I might do next if the Logitech is not equavelent to my iPod/i170/MonarchyDIP stack, is to continue to get hi rez music and then convert it to 16/41 (or 48 if the iPod will play it), and then wait for either a next generation iPod or a firmware upgrade to support higher resolution, or a hardware vendor who can deliver a streamer seperate that does not cost an arm or a leg.
   
  It may be that it takes 6k now to buy a piece of hardware that can stream over a network without glare or harshness because there is so little demand and possibly research and development costs were so high that companies marketing this equipment have to charge a lot to recoup costs.  But, as the digital server market continues to grow, my hope is that this technology will filter into the lower price point range.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I love the Cary sound.  I reviewed their equipment when I was writing hardware reviews for Positive Feedback Online.  What model do you have?  Too bad you can't go balanced across the board.
  
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But one never really knows if the integrated DAC may we worth the price of the whole and someone could end up with a very good DAC as part of the package--subjectively speaking of course. After all, the Leben CS300XS is sold as an integrated amp and we know how popular it is as a headphone amp.


 

 I prefer seperates.  If you can just get a transport then you have more control over how your gear ultimately sounds.
  
   
   
  Quote:


dminches said:


> MM, there are 2 options I would currently recommend if you are going to go the Squeezebox route.  Option 1 is to buy a transporter, their original signature player, and have it modded by Dan Wright at Modwright.  This will play anything up to 24/96 and can also serve as a DAC.  The mod is a tube mode which adds 2 6SN7-family tube drivers and a 5U4G rectifier.  It is a great sounding machine.  Your other option is to get a Touch and buy a DAC to go with it.  If you need 24/192 capabilities then I would go this route.


 

 Good points.  I've opened door number two as I already have a DAC I really like.  I want to keep my components separate so I can control the sound more.  I have a piece of gear I put before my DAC and play everything digital through it, and that is the Monarchy DIP.  It totally cleans up harsh bright sound, and if the media streamer is in the same piece of gear as the DAC, I can't use the DIP.  Are you sure the Touch can go 192/24?  I thought the max was 96/24?  I heard a rumor that the Touch would be supporting the higher resolutions, and maybe they are now.


----------



## crazyscarecrow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> John, thanks a lot for the Linn link.  I have a queue of media streaming devices I'm working through, and will add this one to the list, it sure looks high-end, but after all it is Linn.  I dusted off my 3 year old Roku, and streamed digital music still has that digital glare with it.  I ordered a Squeezebox Touch last night and we'll see how that goes.
> 
> The GEC tuces that Glenn tested are working our very well.  They turned out to be a perfect matched pair, even across channels!  Then with the extra tubes I bought from you I have a closely matched pair as backup.  I really like the GEC as I find it pairs exceptionally well with the TS BGRP and the EML.  For my ears, the HD800 mates well with my tube set as it is very revealing with hefty bass and a certian delicateness that allows me to get into the nuances of the music.
> 
> I'll post my reactions to the Squeezebox.


 

 Thanks Mike---looking forward to hearing what you think of the touch.  I am currently planning on a iPod through an ALO solo or the USB thumb drive swap (neither are optimum for this setup).  I assume the Touch has a digital out than you can pump directly into your 95?


----------



## bergnerm

I really enjoy this thread, and the knowledge of the contributors never ceases to amaze me. It's interesting, though, that the WA2 is not an amp that is much discussed. After doing a good bit of research, I concluded that the WA2 was the solution for me (HD 800 as primary headphones). I got it in my grubby mitts a little over a month ago, and could not be happier with it. I'm driving it with a Nuforce Icon HDP DAC (preamp output). Maybe I should have considered the WA22 more, since it seems to be considerably more popular, but as a newbie, I wasn't ready to go the balanced route. In any case, I now have the Woo upgrade tubes fully burned in with amazing results. I did, for grins, put in the stock tubes for a bit, but there's no comparison with the burned-in upgraded tubes.
   
  I chose the WA2 because it was considered to be "tubier" than the WA6SE--I now have a sense of what "tubier" means...when I plug my HD 800s into the Icon HDP directly (which I recognize is not the pinnacle of DAC/Amps, but I've been quite happy with it for what it cost), I get a clean and precise sound, but I always find myself turning on the WA2 for any serious music listening.
   
  I'm just curious if anyone out there has owned both the WA2 and any other Woo amps at the same time for purposes of comparison, since my only base for comparison is the HDP. I don't think I made a mistake in getting the maxxed WA2, but just curious if a WA22 or WA5LE would be such a significant improvement that I should consider them for an upgrade.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 No problem. I'm sure someone will eventually provide a second opinion.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dminches said:


> MM, there are 2 options I would currently recommend if you are going to go the Squeezebox route.  Option 1 is to buy a transporter, their original signature player, and have it modded by Dan Wright at Modwright.  This will play anything up to 24/96 and can also serve as a DAC.  The mod is a tube mode which adds 2 6SN7-family tube drivers and a 5U4G rectifier.  It is a great sounding machine.  Your other option is to get a Touch and buy a DAC to go with it.  If you need 24/192 capabilities then I would go this route.


 
   

   
  Mike this does sound like the ultimate networking device but it would replace your DAC as well


----------



## MacedonianHero

bergnerm said:


> I really enjoy this thread, and the knowledge of the contributors never ceases to amaze me. It's interesting, though, that the WA2 is not an amp that is much discussed. After doing a good bit of research, I concluded that the WA2 was the solution for me (HD 800 as primary headphones). I got it in my grubby mitts a little over a month ago, and could not be happier with it. I'm driving it with a Nuforce Icon HDP DAC (preamp output). Maybe I should have considered the WA22 more, since it seems to be considerably more popular, but as a newbie, I wasn't ready to go the balanced route. In any case, I now have the Woo upgrade tubes fully burned in with amazing results. I did, for grins, put in the stock tubes for a bit, but there's no comparison with the burned-in upgraded tubes.
> 
> I chose the WA2 because it was considered to be "tubier" than the WA6SE--I now have a sense of what "tubier" means...when I plug my HD 800s into the Icon HDP directly (which I recognize is not the pinnacle of DAC/Amps, but I've been quite happy with it for what it cost), I get a clean and precise sound, but I always find myself turning on the WA2 for any serious music listening.
> 
> I'm just curious if anyone out there has owned both the WA2 and any other Woo amps at the same time for purposes of comparison, since my only base for comparison is the HDP. I don't think I made a mistake in getting the maxxed WA2, but just curious if a WA22 or WA5LE would be such a significant improvement that I should consider them for an upgrade.




For my T1s I have not heard a better amp...and it is a fabulous amp for the HD800s. Don't worry, there are many of us who appreciate this amp!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I
  Mike - I decided to go the Touch route with the W4S  until someone builds a mature streaming solution for a reasonable price.  This combo gives one of the most flexible DACs on the Market for 1500 bucks with a proven streaming technology that's been around for 7-8 years in the Squeezebox platform.  Also, the Touch is not a large investment 200-300 bucks for a quality product.  If you don't feel it works for you in your Woo setup you can use in someplace else around your house.  The DAC in the Touch is actually pretty good.  I have 3 Touches and 2 SB3s and haven't played a CD or listened to the radiio in 5 years thanks to them.  The Touch does currently only support 24/96.  You can apply some settings on the Sqeezebox server to play only native resolution files which is how I am setup or you can allow the server to downconvert files higher than 24/96 so they can be played.  Not sure what the upper limit is if you allow downcoversion.  I prefer the Touch to any iPod or iMod I've played through both of my Headphone amps.  I used the Touch on its own without a DAC for a couple of weeks when I first got it and thought it sounded great that way.  If I didn't have the money for a good DAC I would spend on quality headphones and amp and get a Touch to tide me over.  Sorry to be such a Sqeezebox fanboy.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





crazyscarecrow said:


> Thanks Mike---looking forward to hearing what you think of the touch.  I am currently planning on a iPod through an ALO solo or the USB thumb drive swap (neither are optimum for this setup).  I assume the Touch has a digital out than you can pump directly into your 95?


 

 An ALO Solo.  I'd be super interested in what you think about that combo.  I read the review of it on 6Moons and that looks like a very interesting piece of gear.  I'm on the lookout for something to take to Hawaii with me when I go on vacation this looks like a nice solution.
   
  Yes, the Touch has a digital out that I will feed to my Monarchy DIP + DLIII pair.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Mike this does sound like the ultimate networking device but it would replace your DAC as well


 

 Grokit, you are a BBBBAAAADDDDD man!  Yeah, it looks like it could replace a few things in my system.  And of course we cannot forget the Modwright modification.

  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I
> Mike - I decided to go the Touch route with the W4S  until someone builds a mature streaming solution for a reasonable price.  This combo gives one of the most flexible DACs on the Market for 1500 bucks with a proven streaming technology that's been around for 7-8 years in the Squeezebox platform.  Also, the Touch is not a large investment 200-300 bucks for a quality product.  If you don't feel it works for you in your Woo setup you can use in someplace else around your house.  The DAC in the Touch is actually pretty good.  I have 3 Touches and 2 SB3s and haven't played a CD or listened to the radiio in 5 years thanks to them.  The Touch does currently only support 24/96.  You can apply some settings on the Sqeezebox server to play only native resolution files which is how I am setup or you can allow the server to downconvert files higher than 24/96 so they can be played.  Not sure what the upper limit is if you allow downcoversion.  I prefer the Touch to any iPod or iMod I've played through both of my Headphone amps.  I used the Touch on its own without a DAC for a couple of weeks when I first got it and thought it sounded great that way.  If I didn't have the money for a good DAC I would spend on quality headphones and amp and get a Touch to tide me over.  Sorry to be such a Sqeezebox fanboy.


 

 Windy, I think you and I are in the same boat with regard to streaming technology.  I think I read somewhere that the Touch will downsample files higher than 96/24 so they will at least play, and I expect at some point for them to bump up to 192/24 as the music server/hi rez music market continues to expand.
   
  Glad to have something come so highly recommended!  It should be here in a few days.  Did it require any breakin?


----------



## Skylab

@Mikemalter - my Cary is the SLP-05. Great preamp. Much better than the Krell I have before it. I do run balanced from it to my Sunfire amp.

@Bergnerm - I also love the WA2. Really, really nice amp. I've considered the WA5, but can't get my arms around using 300B tubes, and the tizzy that would send my wallet into  The WA2 is really great with many of my top-tier headphones.


----------



## Wedge

Yeah, the WA-5 has set my wallet into a tizzy thats for sure, and I haven't even attempted to buy the Original WE300Bs.  I have EAT 300Bs, which I find are quite good though.  I'm waiting for the EML Mesh Plates to come.  I really wish I could get my hands on original 300Bs, unfortunately there isn't as big of a NOS market for reasonable prices with the 300Bs as there are with many other output tubes.  There are some very good new prods in my opinion though.  I can't compare the WA-5 to the WA-2 because I have never heard one a WA-2 before, but I can imagine them being 2 very different animals.  As far as my wallet goes, its pretty much empty now.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> @Bergnerm - I also love the WA2. Really, really nice amp. I've considered the WA5, but can't get my arms around using 300B tubes, and the tizzy that would send my wallet into
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike - I thought the Touch sounded great straight out of the box.  I do prefer the coax connection when connecting to a DAC.


----------



## bergnerm

Thanks MH (and Skylab). Interesting, and nice to hear.
   
  I'm considering the T1s--not as a replacement for the HD800s (I like them too much), but as an adjunct (once my wallet heals from my latest round of purchases). Do you think the T1s have a sound signature that is distinct enough from the HD800s to serve as a complement, or do you think another headphone (LCD2?) might serve in that role better? I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money for something only _slightly_ different. That's why I like using _both_ my Icon HDP and the WA2--both very different sound signatures that suit different moods/music styles. I would say my listening mix is about 65% classical, 20% rock/metal, and 15% jazz (with an interest in increasing the jazz %). Probably should be in the headphone thread, but I am focusing on a WA2-centric solution... I'll likely add new cans to the collection before a new amp.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> For my T1s I have not heard a better amp...and it is a fabulous amp for the HD800s. Don't worry, there are many of us who appreciate this amp!


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> I really enjoy this thread, and the knowledge of the contributors never ceases to amaze me. It's interesting, though, that the WA2 is not an amp that is much discussed. After doing a good bit of research, I concluded that the WA2 was the solution for me (HD 800 as primary headphones). I got it in my grubby mitts a little over a month ago, and could not be happier with it. I'm driving it with a Nuforce Icon HDP DAC (preamp output). Maybe I should have considered the WA22 more, since it seems to be considerably more popular, but as a newbie, I wasn't ready to go the balanced route. In any case, I now have the Woo upgrade tubes fully burned in with amazing results. I did, for grins, put in the stock tubes for a bit, but there's no comparison with the burned-in upgraded tubes.
> 
> I chose the WA2 because it was considered to be "tubier" than the WA6SE--I now have a sense of what "tubier" means...when I plug my HD 800s into the Icon HDP directly (which I recognize is not the pinnacle of DAC/Amps, but I've been quite happy with it for what it cost), I get a clean and precise sound, but I always find myself turning on the WA2 for any serious music listening.
> 
> I'm just curious if anyone out there has owned both the WA2 and any other Woo amps at the same time for purposes of comparison, since my only base for comparison is the HDP. I don't think I made a mistake in getting the maxxed WA2, but just curious if a WA22 or WA5LE would be such a significant improvement that I should consider them for an upgrade.


 
  You know,  I know exactly how you feel. I bought a maxxed WA6SE, and in this thread ALL I hear is WA22, WA22.* I think this thread should be called WA22 owners unite  *.. So being new at this myself it made me second guess myself, I was going to upgrade to a WA22 and it hasn't even been couple of months since my WA6se purchase! I know I should probably upgrade my headphones or source before my amp. I really wish I could hear the two amps side by side. I live in Turkey at the moment, so going to a head-fi meet is not going to happen any time soon. I would really love to hear impressions of the WA6SE maxed vs WA22 vs WA5LE. Is the sound better, or different??
   
  Not to get off the topic too much, my band released their new cd, and you can listen online for Free: http://oldnewthings.bandcamp.com/album/ghosts
  Or you can download FLAC, ALAC for 8 bucks. Only reason I'm mentioning it here is because our engineer was brilliant, and it's one of best recordings of upright bass and cymbals I've heard. It really tests my WA6SE


----------



## emremusic

By the way please don't think I'm using this thread to plug my band, if you like what you hear, I can send you some tunes by email - (please dont tell my bandmates) 
   
  It's just been a useful recording to do A-B testing because of all the different sounds.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





skylab said:


> @Mikemalter - my Cary is the SLP-05. Great preamp. Much better than the Krell I have before it. I do run balanced from it to my Sunfire amp.
> 
> @Bergnerm - I also love the WA2. Really, really nice amp. I've considered the WA5, but can't get my arms around using 300B tubes, and the tizzy that would send my wallet into
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe look at the WA5LE in your case, Jack added a Alps RK50 pot (he had made a power buy for the RK50 so he passed the savings on to me) to my WA5LE.
  however imo the Alps pot really only comes into play with the HE-6's.
   
  Hay its only money for the 300B's and your Oppo BD-95 really adds a very nice touch (speed and dynamic range along with great impact) to the sound of the 300B's.


----------



## Redcarmoose

300b!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> 300b!


 

 Alps RK50 pot!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


bergnerm said:


> I really enjoy this thread, and the knowledge of the contributors never ceases to amaze me. I*t's interesting, though, that the WA2 is not an amp that is much discussed. *After doing a good bit of research, I concluded that the WA2 was the solution for me (HD 800 as primary headphones). I got it in my grubby mitts a little over a month ago, and could not be happier with it. I'm driving it with a Nuforce Icon HDP DAC (preamp output). Maybe I should have considered the WA22 more, since it seems to be considerably more popular, but as a newbie, I wasn't ready to go the balanced route. In any case, I now have the Woo upgrade tubes fully burned in with amazing results. I did, for grins, put in the stock tubes for a bit, but there's no comparison with the burned-in upgraded tubes.
> 
> *I chose the WA2 because it was considered to be "tubier" than the WA6SE*--I now have a sense of what "tubier" means...when I plug my HD 800s into the Icon HDP directly (which I recognize is not the pinnacle of DAC/Amps, but I've been quite happy with it for what it cost), I get a clean and precise sound, but I always find myself turning on the WA2 for any serious music listening.
> 
> I'm just curious if anyone out there has owned both the WA2 and any other Woo amps at the same time for purposes of comparison, since my only base for comparison is the HDP. I don't think I made a mistake in getting the maxxed WA2, but just curious if a WA22 or WA5LE would be such a significant improvement that I should consider them for an upgrade.


 
  Quote:  





> For my T1s I have not heard a better amp...*and it is a fabulous amp for the HD800s*. Don't worry, there are many of us who appreciate this amp!


 
   
  I totally agree with both of the above posts--especially the emboldened sections.
  
  I have not owned more than one Woo amp at the same time, but pretty close.  I had a stock WA6SE for about a year, and really liked it, but it didn't really sound to me like I thought a tube amp should; I recently sold it and got a WA2.  This is the amp for me--the one I should have gotten in the first place.  I also have a Meier Concerto, and I have pretty much dedicated my headphones to either one amp or the other. 
   
  I listen to my HD800s on the WA2, and they have never sounded better.  More and better bass, soundstage wider than ever.  Before the WA2, my LCD2s were getting most of my listening time via the Concerto, and the HD800s were kind of lifeless; I was considering selling them after the LCD2 purchase.  Now, the LCD2s are pretty much always used with the Concerto (along with my D7000s) and the HD800s are just about permanently plugged into the WA2.  (I run both amps out of a StageDAC).
   
  With the money I saved on the WA2 (instead of the WA22, since I have no balanced gear), I've been able to experiment with some better tubes.  I'm now using Amperex Bugle Boy EZ80 rectifiers, Mullard E88CC drive tubes, and Tung Sol 5998 NOS power tubes.  This setup with the HD800s is what I use for jazz, female vocals, classical piano, etc.  It's a little laid back and warm for rock, so that's where the Concerto and the LCD2s/D7000s come in.
   
  It's like having two systems, and I love the versatility.  The StageDAC is fed by a Mac Mini running iTunes, and I'm controlling everything with an iPad 2.  Other than trying out Pure Music, I'm not anticipating any upgrades anytime soon . . .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> I totally agree with both of the above posts--especially the emboldened sections.
> 
> ...


 


  WA2 & D7000 ~
   
  What was your impression when pairing the WA2 with the D7000's? Or did the '800's' have you feeling so plush you were unable to take on another pillow, let alone another headphone? I'm wondering how my D5000's would sound with the WA2? They sound good with my 6SE, great with the WA22. But with the WA2 I've no idea.
   
  Sometimes, change and adventure is good. Since they're around the same money, I wonder if I should switch before the little one's first year anniversary this summer...
   
  Post Script.: Did you miss the dynamics from the WA6SE or does the '2' hit pretty good, too?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> I totally agree with both of the above posts--especially the emboldened sections.
> 
> ...


 

 Hmm.  So what if you _only_ had the HD800s, would you choose the WA6-SE or WA2 to make them all-rounders?  Good _enough_ for rock, _*and*_ good enough for jazz, female vocals, classical piano, etc.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





silent one said:


> WA2 & D7000 ~
> 
> What was your impression when pairing the WA2 with the D7000's? Or did the '800's' have you feeling so plush you were unable to take on another pillow, let alone another headphone? I'm wondering how my D5000's would sound with the WA2? They sound good with my 6SE, great with the WA22. But with the WA2 I've no idea.
> 
> ...


 

 I actually haven't even tried the D7000s with the WA2.  The WA2 definitely has less dynamics and punch than the WA6SE, and D7000/Concerto pairing just suits the recordings I listen to with those phones.  And yes, if I didn't have the Concerto, I would be missing the dynamics of the WA6SE.  The WA2 is smooth, and great for some music, but I don't think I would want it to be my only amp.  Having both is ideal.
   
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hmm.  So what if you _only_ had the HD800s, would you choose the WA6-SE or WA2 to make them all-rounders?  Good _enough_ for rock, _*and*_ good enough for jazz, female vocals, classical piano, etc.


 

 If I only had HD800s, I would definitely go with the WA2.  (but my rock listening percentage would drop, I expect) The difference, for me, is huge.  I wasn't really listening to the HD800s much at all until I got the WA2 and started experimenting with tubes.  Now the HD800s are back in play.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I actually haven't even tried the D7000s with the WA2.  The WA2 definitely has less dynamics and punch than the WA6SE, and D7000/Concerto pairing just suits the recordings I listen to with those phones.  And yes, if I didn't have the Concerto, I would be missing the dynamics of the WA6SE.  The WA2 is smooth, and great for some music, but I don't think I would want it to be my only amp.  Having both is ideal.
> 
> 
> If I only had HD800s, I would definitely go with the WA2.  (but my rock listening percentage would drop, I expect) The difference, for me, is huge.  I wasn't really listening to the HD800s much at all until I got the WA2 and started experimenting with tubes.  Now the HD800s are back in play.


 

 Thanks for your input. _And now that you're curious_... let's stick the Denon's in and see what comes out!


----------



## Skylab

I don't think the D7000 are an ideal match for the WA2. They are much lower impedance than the output impedance of the WA2, and they sound a little woolly as a result.

OTOH, the T1 and HD800 are very good indeed with the WA2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I don't think the D7000 are an ideal match for the WA2. They are much lower impedance than the output impedance of the WA2, and they sound a little woolly as a result.
> 
> OTOH, the T1 and HD800 are very good indeed with the WA2.


 


  Thanks, skylab. Guess I can get out of _exploration mode_ and into the kitchen to cook dinner...


----------



## mikemalter

Well, my Logitech Squeezebox Touch arrived today, and initial impressions are good.  No "extra stuff that hurts" in the music.  Internet radio right out of the box is very good.  I was actually surprised by how good Radio Paradise sounded.  I'm playing my music library through it right now and it is promising.  I hearing good detail, nice rich bass and just a bit of an glare on the music, but to be expected since I'm just out of the box with it.
   
  I'm just learning my way around, and it seems like you have to use their server software for your music library although you can play from a USB thumb drive or SD Card, I haven't tried it.
   
  Right now my iPod/Wadia i170 still has the best sound, I hoping that the Squeezebox can get to it's level, and then I'll have access to my 96/24 music.  I did play some 96/24, and it did really make a difference from a perspective of what seemed like more breathing room between all the elements of the music.
   
  So, looks like pulling my PWD and keeping my DAC but finding an alternative media streamer is looking like a good way to go.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ And where did you get your Squeezebox Touch?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, my Logitech Squeezebox Touch arrived today, and initial impressions are good.  No "extra stuff that hurts" in the music.  Internet radio right out of the box is very good.  I was actually surprised by how good Radio Paradise sounded.  I'm playing my music library through it right now and it is promising.  I hearing good detail, nice rich bass and just a bit of an glare on the music, but to be expected since I'm just out of the box with it.
> 
> I'm just learning my way around, and it seems like you have to use their server software for your music library although you can play from a USB thumb drive or SD Card, I haven't tried it.
> 
> ...


 

 I have been running the second generation squeezebox for long time. The library is form itunes in WAV and running squeeze server.
  I am sending the digital coax output of the squeezbox to a Genesis Time Lens (and before to a Monarchy DIP) from there to a PWD in one system and a Wadia 27 in the other. Nobody has been able to distinguish between the Squeezbox sound and CD out of my transports.


----------



## nspindel

Here's a gift for anyone looking to pull the trigger on a Squeezebox Touch.  Crutchfield.com has them on sale for $274 shipped through April 16, and use coupon code 3a825 and you'll get another $20 off.  $254 shipped is as cheap as I've ever seen it.  I ordered one today, got an email with a tracking code saying it had shipped within about an hour.  Doesn't get much better than that...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike - glad it seems to be working out for you.  I listen to lots of Pandora while working and have my music library stored in 2 formats (both of which are playable from the Squeezebox).  I initially rip to FLAC using dBPowerAmp and then convert to ALAC also using dBPowerAmp.  I always play FLAC when using the Squeezebox however it can play the ALAC files also.  The ALAC are for my iDevices. I connect my Touch to the W4S using Coax digital out.  24/96 definitely sounds better but lower resolution also sounds very good to me.  There are some tweaks you can do that disable some features that many think improve the sound.  Check out this link
 http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html


----------



## sampson_smith

Subscribed! My Woo Audio WA6 with PDPS and Sophia Princess rectifier is INCOMING!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ WELCOME, sampson_smith!


----------



## Wedge

Congratulations on your purchase, sampson_smith!


----------



## grokit

Woo-hoo!
  
  Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Subscribed! My Woo Audio WA6 with PDPS and Sophia Princess rectifier is INCOMING!


----------



## MacedonianHero

sampson_smith said:


> Subscribed! My Woo Audio WA6 with PDPS and Sophia Princess rectifier is INCOMING!




Nice pick up Vince! Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## sampson_smith

Wow. How very supportive! Thank you all. I am looking forward to having a proper amp to match my silver Woo Audio T-stand!  Truthfully, I am very excited to try out a WA6 with Sophia Princess tube and PDPS. (The last WA6 that I momentarily afforded during graduate studies has neither.) I will certainly post my impressions once the amp arrives and I find some spare time to indulge.


----------



## sphinxvc

My WA6 (with PDPS, otherwise stock tubes) came in today.  Sublime.  
   
  I had to sell my old DAC to pay for my new one so for now I'm running it right out of my laptop.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Mike - glad it seems to be working out for you.  I listen to lots of Pandora while working and have my music library stored in 2 formats (both of which are playable from the Squeezebox).  I initially rip to FLAC using dBPowerAmp and then convert to ALAC also using dBPowerAmp.  I always play FLAC when using the Squeezebox however it can play the ALAC files also.  The ALAC are for my iDevices. I connect my Touch to the W4S using Coax digital out.  24/96 definitely sounds better but lower resolution also sounds very good to me.  There are some tweaks you can do that disable some features that many think improve the sound.  Check out this link
> http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html


 

 Windy,
   
  What a great link, thanks.  I have implemented the non-scripted changes on my Touch already.  Have you done any of the mods in the link?
   
  Also, what about power supplies?  Are you using the standard power supply, or have you upgraded?
   
  I'm going to need to get dBPowerAmp for ripping, and I'll probably rip two copies from CD's just like you; one FLAC for the Squeezebox and one for my iPod.
   
  How much of an improvement is the W4S over the DLIII?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nspindel said:


> Here's a gift for anyone looking to pull the trigger on a Squeezebox Touch.  Crutchfield.com has them on sale for $274 shipped through April 16, and use coupon code 3a825 and you'll get another $20 off.  $254 shipped is as cheap as I've ever seen it.  I ordered one today, got an email with a tracking code saying it had shipped within about an hour.  Doesn't get much better than that...


 

 Oops, missed this.  Nice to see there are deals out there.
  
   


  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have been running the second generation squeezebox for long time. The library is form itunes in WAV and running squeeze server.
> I am sending the digital coax output of the squeezbox to a Genesis Time Lens (and before to a Monarchy DIP) from there to a PWD in one system and a Wadia 27 in the other. Nobody has been able to distinguish between the Squeezbox sound and CD out of my transports.


 

 How do you compare the differences between the Time Lens and the DIP?  It's heartening to hear that Squeezebox sound is equivalent to your transport sound.  Did you find there was a breakin period for the Squeezebox?
  
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ And where did you get your Squeezebox Touch?


 

 I got it from the Logitech web site.


----------



## cusx

Need some opinions, should I get the WA6SE/WA6 or Yamamoto HA-02 for the ATH - w1000 ? because all those amps listed would drive a low independce headphone. Kinda in a dilemma now.


----------



## shipsupt

I was getting a slight random crackle/static from the right channel last night.  I am thinking it might be the 6FD7's that I have been listening to for a week or so now.  I took them out tonight and will treat them to some DeoxIT and possibly light sanding of the post to rule out something simple.  Hoping that might take care of the issue as they are my only set of Sylvania black plate fat bottles and they were sounding quite good with the Sophia rectifier in my 6SE.  I'll definitely be looking to pick up another pair as well.
 
In the mean time I rolled in a RCA 5R4GYB and Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7's, a combination I've heard can provide a nice smooth sound.  I'm looking forward to giving them some time to see what this new (to me) combination sounds like.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I did quite a few of the mods.  I did not turn off the screen as I like to have it for navigating.  I have not tried a Linear PS.  There seems to be conflicting info on the web as to whether it would make a difference when the Touch is plugged into a DAC.  I've been tempted a couple of times to give it a shot but so far I've stuck with the supplied PS.  dBPoweramp is a great product for ripping and converting between formats.  I can't really put a number on the improvement between the W4S and the DL3.  I think they both are great and with the Touch connected by digital Coax and with your WA22 I think you'll have great results with either.  If you want to play from your computer I would highly recommend the upgrade over the DL3 though.
   


mikemalter said:


> Windy,
> 
> What a great link, thanks.  I have implemented the non-scripted changes on my Touch already.  Have you done any of the mods in the link?
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I was getting a slight random crackle/static from the right channel last night.  I am thinking it might be the 6FD7's that I have been listening to for a week or so now.  I took them out tonight and will treat them to some DeoxIT and possibly light sanding of the post to rule out something simple.  Hoping that might take care of the issue as they are my only set of Sylvania black plate fat bottles and they were sounding quite good with the Sophia rectifier in my 6SE.  I'll definitely be looking to pick up another pair as well.
> 
> In the mean time I rolled in a RCA 5R4GYB and Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7's, a combination I've heard can provide a nice smooth sound.  I'm looking forward to giving them some time to see what this new (to me) combination sounds like.


 



 Cleaning the pins is a good first step.  I prefer steel wool personally as it returns a shine to the metal without introducing a coarse finish.  If you roll a bit in your hand then loop it around the pin and work back and forth it works really well, but its important to clean the tube well afterwards.  A stray piece touching two pins when inserted back in the amp would lead to bad things.
   
  The 5R4 should be a lot more laid back than the Sophia, but it might sound edgy during the first couple dozen hours if the tube is NOS.  If you find it gives up too much in dynamics and PRaT to the Sophia just hang in there, this actually improves a bit eventually.  I though the RCA 5R4 sounded kind of slow and plodding for the first month I used it, but it grew out of it so to speak.  A bit of that might have been *me* breaking in too, but the overall opinion has held over time as I've compared it to other rectifiers.


----------



## musicman59

Mike, 
  To be honest I did not hear much of a difference between the DIP Classic and the Time Lens. Clearly not as much as the difference in price. If you already have the DIP stay with it IMO. No, I did not noticed any change during the Burn-in process. The biggest difference was using the Digital out instead of the analog in the DIP. I was also having a lot of drop outs of the signal when I was going wireless with the DIP. I changed my Linksys routed for a Apple Extreme and I added two Apple Express near my two Squeezeboxes to extend the network then I went Ethernet from the Airport Extreme to the DIP and voila! No more drop outs.
   
  I also made a comparison between the coax output of the Squeezebox and the Toslink output of the Airport Express. Both signal going into the Time Lens and the to the PWD. Using the same iTunes library but one using iTunes and the other the Squeezeserver. IMO the signal out of the Squeezeserver sounded better. It sounded more analog and natural.
   
  I know 3 different people including me that have made "blind" tests between AppleLossless, AIFC and WAV. We all came out with the same conclusion. In our opinion the best sound of those 3 is using WAV and the AIFC and the AppleLossles. The former sounds good but the WAV provide better body and texture to the sound.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Mike,
> To be honest I did not hear much of a difference between the DIP Classic and the Time Lens. Clearly not as much as the difference in price. If you already have the DIP stay with it IMO. No, I did not noticed any change during the Burn-in process. The biggest difference was using the Digital out instead of the analog in the DIP. I was also having a lot of drop outs of the signal when I was going wireless with the DIP. I changed my Linksys routed for a Apple Extreme and I added two Apple Express near my two Squeezeboxes to extend the network then I went Ethernet from the Airport Extreme to the DIP and voila! No more drop outs.
> 
> I also made a comparison between the coax output of the Squeezebox and the Toslink output of the Airport Express. Both signal going into the Time Lens and the to the PWD. Using the same iTunes library but one using iTunes and the other the Squeezeserver. IMO the signal out of the Squeezeserver sounded better. It sounded more analog and natural.
> ...


 

 What settings on the Genesis Digital Lens for a SQ change with a Squeezebox ? If I could ask you musicman59?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


sillysally said:


> *imo what you are hearing is the Woo sound signature.* I own both the WA6SE max and the WA5LE max++. Yes the WA5LE blows away my WA6SE but they both have the same sound signature.
> 
> Go to Woo Audio web site and E-Mail Jack, tell him what you want to do. Great Guy..


 

 You were so right!  There's enough of the WA6-SE's blood in the WA6, very happy with my purchase.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> What settings on the Genesis Digital Lens for a SQ change with a Squeezebox ? If I could ask you musicman59?


 


   
   The ones I like are D1 and 20 bit.


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks for the tip on the steel wool.  I will defintiely give that a go.  Seems a better way to get around to the inside of the small pins too! 
   
  I didn't get much time listening last night... basically I was Woo'ed to sleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The 5R4 is NOS.  I will be sure to give the combination the time it needs either break in, get myself adjusted to it, or both.
   


  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Cleaning the pins is a good first step.  I prefer steel wool personally as it returns a shine to the metal without introducing a coarse finish.  If you roll a bit in your hand then loop it around the pin and work back and forth it works really well, but its important to clean the tube well afterwards.  A stray piece touching two pins when inserted back in the amp would lead to bad things.
> 
> The 5R4 should be a lot more laid back than the Sophia, but it might sound edgy during the first couple dozen hours if the tube is NOS.  If you find it gives up too much in dynamics and PRaT to the Sophia just hang in there, this actually improves a bit eventually.  I though the RCA 5R4 sounded kind of slow and plodding for the first month I used it, but it grew out of it so to speak.  A bit of that might have been *me* breaking in too, but the overall opinion has held over time as I've compared it to other rectifiers.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Mike,
> To be honest I did not hear much of a difference between the DIP Classic and the Time Lens. Clearly not as much as the difference in price. If you already have the DIP stay with it IMO. No, I did not noticed any change during the Burn-in process. The biggest difference was using the Digital out instead of the analog in the DIP. I was also having a lot of drop outs of the signal when I was going wireless with the DIP. I changed my Linksys routed for a Apple Extreme and I added two Apple Express near my two Squeezeboxes to extend the network then I went Ethernet from the Airport Extreme to the DIP and voila! No more drop outs.
> 
> I also made a comparison between the coax output of the Squeezebox and the Toslink output of the Airport Express. Both signal going into the Time Lens and the to the PWD. Using the same iTunes library but one using iTunes and the other the Squeezeserver. IMO the signal out of the Squeezeserver sounded better. It sounded more analog and natural.
> ...


 

 Actually I have the DIP 48/96 Upsampler, not the classic.  It does the same thing as the classic, but upsamples to either 48 or 96 Hz.  Monarchy has a new DIP out.  You can set either 44.1 or 96 as the output, but I'm going to stay with what I have right now.
   
  Interesting take on file types.  Glad to have the benefit of your experience as I'm going to rerip my entire library.  What is your opinion about FLAC?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Actually I have the DIP 48/96 Upsampler, not the classic.  It does the same thing as the classic, but upsamples to either 48 or 96 Hz.  Monarchy has a new DIP out.  You can set either 44.1 or 96 as the output, but I'm going to stay with what I have right now.
> 
> Interesting take on file types.  Glad to have the benefit of your experience as I'm going to rerip my entire library.  What is your opinion about FLAC?


 


   I don't have much experience with FLAC but the few songs I have head they sounded very good. I am not sure if difference in sound to WAV justifies the big difference in file size. I am looking at different software packages that will allow me to use FLAC in my Mac.


----------



## dminches

I don't see why flacs wouldn't sound the same as wavs.


----------



## shipsupt

There is one camp that says lossless is lossless... another that will say there is a difference... I won't touch that one! 
   
  One downside to WAV, and I may be wrong, is that you can't tag the files like you can FLAC... tags are nice when you have a large collection.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> I don't see why flacs wouldn't sound the same as wavs.




I would go so far as to say it isn't possible for them to sound different


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I don't have much experience with FLAC but the few songs I have head they sounded very good. I am not sure if difference in sound to WAV justifies the big difference in file size. I am looking at different software packages that will allow me to use FLAC in my Mac.


 

 The Pure Music software for Mac allows you directly and easily import and playback native FLAC files via iTunes without third party software.
   
  The sound improvement with any of your music on iTunes will be readily apparent.
   
  You can set it to memory play and it will buffer the music files into the internal memory of your Mac so the hard drive is not spinning up.
   
  In addition you keep all of the iTunes features including the Apple remote App.
   
  It also does upsampling but I usually let my Wadia handle that aspect; High-Res 24/96 sources sound amazing.
   
  And all for $129, I have paid more than that in shipping on most pieces I buy.
   
  Check it out, they offer a full-feature 15 day Demo trial at no charge.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1 all of this is in the digital domain, bits is bits.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There is one camp that says lossless is lossless... another that will say there is a difference... I won't touch that one!
> 
> One downside to WAV, and I may be wrong, is that you can't tag the files like you can FLAC... tags are nice when you have a large collection.


 
   
  On an overtaxed computer there could be a difference in SQ between FLAC/ALAC and WAV/AIFF, especially if using an adaptive DAC. You can't tag in WAV but you can in AIFF.
   
  I agree Pure Music is awesome but FLAC and ALAC sound the same.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> The Pure Music software for Mac allows you directly and easily import and playback native FLAC files via iTunes without third party software.
> 
> The sound improvement with any of your music on iTunes will be readily apparent.
> 
> ...


 

 That is exactly the one I am contemplating. I actually thinking in a Mac mini from Mach2Music with the Pure Music loaded as my dedicated server.


----------



## vinyllp33

I just recently downloaded the new 24/96 remaster of George Harrison's "All Things Must Pass," it was originally a 3-LP set: In WAV format it takes up 3.5GB!
   
  No complaints on the sound, however High-Res via WAV will eat up memory very quickly.


----------



## Icenine2

I have more than a few high-res files and they do eat up drive space.  Thankfully it is dirt cheap these days.  I still have only used 1/2 of my 1TB internal drive w/everything loaded except about 10 DVDA's I've been dragging my feet on to rip.
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I just recently downloaded the new 24/96 remaster of George Harrison's "All Things Must Pass," it was originally a 3-LP set: In WAV format it takes up 3.5GB!
> 
> No complaints on the sound, however High-Res via WAV will eat up memory very quickly.


----------



## Icenine2

I have almost everything in Wav on my Windows computer and it tags just fine.
   
  I also have FLAC, AIFF.  I notice no difference in any of these.  Some live FLAC boots I have do sound incredibly life-like.
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There is one camp that says lossless is lossless... another that will say there is a difference... I won't touch that one!
> 
> One downside to WAV, and I may be wrong, is that you can't tag the files like you can FLAC... tags are nice when you have a large collection.


----------



## Skylab

I convert the 96/24 WAVs to Apple Lossless - it does help with the file sizes (as would FLAC).


----------



## codeninja

skylab said:


> I convert the 96/24 WAVs to Apple Lossless - it does help with the file sizes (as would FLAC).



What tool did you use to convert?


----------



## mikemalter

Thought it would be interesting to compare a picture of network traffic of iTunes serving up 44.1/16 and Squeezebox 96/24.
   
  The activity on the top is Squeezebox sending it's hirez stream, the bottom iTunes with its mp3 stream.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





codeninja said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  dBPoweramp.  Awesome tool.


----------



## nspindel

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> +1 all of this is in the digital domain, bits is bits.


 


 There is a bit of logic to the argument that wav is better than flac, although I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, just saying I'm familiar with the argument.  If you are playing flac, then the CPU needs to spin cycles to decompress/decode.  If you're working the CPU for this, it has less bandwidth to attend to the timing of the delivery of the PCM stream.  The bits is bits argument is partially correct.  You can send the correct 1's and 0's, but if the timing is not precise, you get jitter.  For redbook audio, 16 bits needs to be sent every 1/44,100th of a second.
   
  For my Squeezebox application, a perfectly acceptable means of doing this is to do this is to store the music as flac, but have the server do the decoding to PCM, and then the Squeezebox does not need to cycle itself to decompress/decode flac on the client side.  However, this comes at the expense of network traffic, which grows along with the bitrate of the music, so there is a tradeoff.  I'm going to get started with hirez 2496 to a Squeezebox Touch shortly, I'm curious to see if the Squeezebox ethernet can handle raw 2496 PCM.
   
  Interesting stuff, IMO.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ It looks like iTunes is sleeping.


----------



## sphinxvc

Has anyone tried Apple Airport Express as a streaming device?  
   
  It's about $80-100.  Outputs 3.5mm optical to a DAC of your choice & can be controlled (indirectly) with an iPod touch as a remote.
   
  (Limited to 44/16 though.)  Still seems like a good buy considering price of iPod touch + A-Exp - $180-200.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Has anyone tried Apple Airport Express as a streaming device?
> 
> It's about $80-100.  Outputs 3.5mm optical to a DAC of your choice & can be controlled (indirectly) with an iPod touch as a remote.
> 
> (Limited to 44/16 though.)  Still seems like a good buy considering price of iPod touch + A-Exp - $180-200.


 


   Yes I have. I feed my Genesis Time Lens with the Toslink output of the Airport Express and I also feed the Coax output of the Squeezbox so I cna actually make an A/B comparison. There is not much of a difference between the too.If any there is a little bit more warmth in the sound out of the Squeezebox but it can be due to the player itself and not the connection.
  You need to make sure the sound enhancement option in iTunes is not checked. This option really screw up the sound.


----------



## flaming_june

I am also contemplating switching to something like that. However with my music ever growing in 96/24, it'd be hard for me to swtch to that type of system. I'm sure others are in similar mental state. I can't tell the diff between 96/44.1 anyways though. That's another can of worms.

Okay I'm not going to post another again, I like the numbering.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Has anyone tried Apple Airport Express as a streaming device?
> 
> It's about $80-100.  Outputs 3.5mm optical to a DAC of your choice & can be controlled (indirectly) with an iPod touch as a remote.
> 
> (Limited to 44/16 though.)  Still seems like a good buy considering price of iPod touch + A-Exp - $180-200.


 


  I'm another AEX user.  I don't use it for my primary listening, but I have one located near my man throne in the living room where I do a lot of listening from my other equipment.  I think it's a great set up.  I like Itunes for holding my large collection.  Airtunes is perfect for streaming and I control everything from my iPad.  So slick. 
   
  I also like the fact that I can play music where my computer is from the desk top speakers, and stream the same music to two other locations using the AEX and an Apple TV so I get the same tunes playing throughout the house.
   
  I have had no streaming issues, even when network traffic is fairly high (Apple TV synching, iTunes downloading, and internet surfing going on simultaneously).  The music just plays. 
   
  Quality is likely to be an issue for some, but since setting this up I really like the set up and rarely find myself disappointed in the SQ.


----------



## sphinxvc

This is encouraging, definitely want to give AEX a try sometime, if for nothing but the ipod / ipad remote.  Listening on the computer is too distracting, it's hard to keep your focus.  Tends to render all music background music.
   
  Actually, I'm not sure why the quality would suffer, as far as I understand the output is still digital and the DAC is doing the analog conversion.


----------



## shipsupt

You're right.  I probably made it seem like I there were issues with the SQ, and that's not the case!  It's (as far as I have seen) bit perfect optical 44/16.  I guess I was being cautious with my comments because some folks will be critical because:
  1.  44/16 isn't going to cut it for them
  2.  Optical is not an option, either because of hardware or preference
  3.  If you are pushing something out with a higher rate it must be down sampled on the fly... and for some this is taboo
   
  I would certainly recomend giving it a try.


----------



## Edi

Hmm, accidental double post..


----------



## Edi

Curious, what DAC would you guys recommend if I'm going with a Logitech Squeezebox Touch, WA6SE, and LCD-2? I've been mainly looking at the Rega DAC, Wryed 4 Sound DAC-1 or 2, PS Audio DLIII, Cary Xciter DAC, but open to other options. 
   
  Music is a little bit of everything, but mainly movie soundtracks, electronic, and symphonic metal.


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow! Have you seen these new Woo Audio 22 photos? New to me at least. There is a twinkle in my eyes. Smitten and in Love all over again.
---->> Woo Hoo, Twenty-Two!!!
  Oh, sorry.


----------



## Edi

My jaw just dropped a little, need to pick it up. Makes me wish I had one of those.


----------



## MacedonianHero

edi said:


> My jaw just dropped a little, need to pick it up. Makes me wish I had one of those.




I'd love to see a SS amp look that pretty in the dark.

Got my WA2 on right now in my "man-cave" and the glow is intoxicating.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You hit it on the money: _*intoxicating,*_ the glow of tubes most definitely is....


----------



## WindyCityCy

Got my Woo burning right now 2!!!!


----------



## Wedge

I have one of my Woos going, not as much glow though.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I have one of my Woos going, not as much glow though.


 


 Not much glow? Well if we put all of our amps together we will _*Woo the World! *_Stand back! Okay, sorry. It's Friday and I just got paid.


----------



## Wedge

Well I have a WA-5, but as of right now, I'm using RCA Smoke Glass, EAT 300B and TS 5U4GB, so the glow is pretty low right now.


----------



## shipsupt

More woo glow in the bay area here, fired it up when I got home from work so I could enjoy some tunes later tonight! WOOt!


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Well I have a WA-5, but as of right now, I'm using RCA Smoke Glass, EAT 300B and TS 5U4GB, so the glow is pretty low right now.


 
   
  Low Glow is better than No Glow. Those are pretty impressive tubes you've got listed there. I've never heard an EAT tube but have heard a lot of talk about them. Very positive talk to boot!


----------



## Wedge

Interestingly enough, I am going to be in SF on Monday for business.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'll be in SF on Monday as well--working--so drop on by if you have the time. I work on Bush and Sansome Streets. If you're around that vicinity during your lunch hour please respond by PM and I'll I introduce you to some spectacular lunch vans in proximity to my office. There are all sorts... Curry this and that from Japan and Korea to India. Mexican too--but not Mexican curry. Nothing of the glowing tube sort but, hey--what does one do on one's lunch break? And if curry doesn't sound appealing there are other foodstuffs.
   
  Has anyone ordered Woo Audio's new adpaters?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'll be in SF on Monday as well--working--so drop on by if you have the time. I work on Bush and Sansome Streets. If you're around that vicinity during your lunch hour please respond by PM and I'll I introduce you to some spectacular lunch vans in proximity to my office. There are all sorts... Curry this and that from Japan and Korea to India. Mexican too--but not Mexican curry. Nothing of the glowing tube sort but, hey--what does one do on one's lunch break? And if curry doesn't sound appealing there are other foodstuffs.
> 
> Has anyone ordered Woo Audio's new adpaters?


 

 I ordered a pair od 6F8G to 6SN7. Jack said about 45 days to get them.


----------



## Silent One

Just in from making groceries at the _Goodie Store. _Powered up the 'Woo' for a one hour warm up - now sending glow signals from The East Bay. The new Woo Audio adapters look attractive...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Definitely enjoying the intoxicating glow of the woo tubes.  Been listening to a little ATB tonight through the LCD2s.  The Hornitos margaritas are starting to flow with the tunes!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Has anyone ordered Woo Audio's new adpaters?


 


  The quality looks great, which is par for the course with Woo products.  I think it speaks of how popular adapter usage has become that Jack is putting this line of products out.  Price feels a bit steep to me though, so I'll stick with current adapters.  I already had Glenn make me a special one off pair using the same gold plated teflon sockets Jack seems to be using, though mine are only this way on the top end.  The bottom pins are still plain jane.  The motivation was decreased pull needed to insert and remove 6sn7 tubes and the superior pin contact provided by the 6-pin sockets, rather than any kind of sonic improvement (which there was none over the previous adapters).
   
  The most interesting part about Jacks whole post was the blurb about the 7n7.  I'm really surprised he would come right out and say he thinks the 7n7, which is just a 6sn7 with a different base and pins for the most part (I realize this isn't totally true but as a generalization it fits), is superior to any of the direct usage tubes for the WA6.  It sort of makes me feel validated in a way since this is what I've been claiming for a while now.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The quality looks great, which is par for the course with Woo products.  I think it speaks of how popular adapter usage has become that Jack is putting this line of products out.  Price feels a bit steep to me though, so I'll stick with current adapters.  I already had Glenn make me a special one off pair using the same gold plated teflon sockets Jack seems to be using, though mine are only this way on the top end.  The bottom pins are still plain jane.  The motivation was decreased pull needed to insert and remove 6sn7 tubes and the superior pin contact provided by the 6-pin sockets, rather than any kind of sonic improvement (which there was none over the previous adapters).
> 
> The most interesting part about Jacks whole post was the blurb about the 7n7.  I'm really surprised he would come right out and say he thinks the 7n7, which is just a 6sn7 with a different base and pins for the most part (I realize this isn't totally true but as a generalization it fits), is superior to any of the direct usage tubes for the WA6.  It sort of makes me feel validated in a way since this is what I've been claiming for a while now.


 
  I do like the brass ring that Jack has placed around the base of the adapters. I'd imagine it makes for an easy grip when removing the adapter--especially with the WA6 and its sunken tube sockets which are below its nomenclature plate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I do like the brass ring that Jack has placed around the base of the adapters. I'd imagine it makes for an easy grip when removing the adapter--especially with the WA6 and its sunken tube sockets which are below its nomenclature plate.


 

 I think the brass ring gives it a refined look... perhaps, a _touch of elegance_.
   
   
   
  @ Xcalibur255
   
  "The most interesting part about Jacks whole post was the blurb about the 7n7..."
   
  Yeah, I felt a bit better and grinned after reading the blurb.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Those tube adapters look great but cost a pretty penny.
   
  I wanted to brag about my latest acquisitions.  I just came back from the MIT swapfest and I got four tubes for $40.  One is a Ken Rad 6SN7 black glass (used), and a pair of National Union 6SN7GT black glass (NOS... been wanting to try these for a while).  I also happened to see a Raytheon 6SN7GT box and I was curious as to what was inside.  Well, lo and behold it was a Sylvania 6SN7GT... bad boy?


----------



## Clayton SF

That's great. How often are these MIT swapfests? Did you get to pick up any good vinyl records?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's great. How often are these MIT swapfests? Did you get to pick up any good vinyl records?


 



 The first one for the season was today, and it's the third Sunday of every month through October.  There weren't many great vinyls this time but next time will probably be better.


----------



## Wedge

I have been buying tubes lately like crazy.  I haven't been getting crazy awesome deals, but prices just seem to keep going up.  So I've been picking up some of my favorites while the prices are still manageable.


----------



## sphinxvc

So I thought I'd pick up a pair of 6FD7 and a RCA 5R4GY to start off tube-rolling my WA6 with.  Reached the check-out page at tubedepot.com before I realized that their 6FD7 don't specify brand.  Their product page only says "various brands."  How do I make sure I get, say RCA?  Do you just write what brands you want in the comments section?  
   
  They don't have call-in orders on the weekends so..anyone?


----------



## Nova13

My black WA3 was paid for two days ago - can't wait to receive it 
   
  Do these things need to be covered when not in use?  And other than that, is there any maintenance to be done on the thing?  How to clean it?  
   
  This is my first tube amp, and on my budget as a full time student, it was a lot of money.  I want to take care of it.  Perhaps I'll even name it...........


----------



## Wedge

Black is a dust magnet, but I just use an air duster or wipe it down when its off.  Woo makes there amps out of Aluminum, and it is quite sturdy.  As far as tube amps go, you try to avoid turning on and off, so usually when you turn it on you try to leave it on for an hour before shutting it off, and vice versa.  I try to avoid plugging and unplugging my phones often, but sometimes some amount of swapping occurs.


----------



## Hi-Five

I would just send an email asking what they have in stock.  When I purchased some 6FD7's a few months ago they only had a couple pairs of generic white box that were suspected to be Sylvania's, you just ask to have best possible pairs and they will do their best for you.
   
  I was delighted to find Sylvania clear-top fat bottles when they showed up.  Sounded fantastic and at 7 bucks a tube you really can't go wrong.  I've been very pleased with TubeDepot purchases; good quality stuff if not a little expensive for some tubes.
  
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> So I thought I'd pick up a pair of 6FD7 and a RCA 5R4GY to start off tube-rolling my WA6 with.  Reached the check-out page at tubedepot.com before I realized that their 6FD7 don't specify brand.  Their product page only says "various brands."  How do I make sure I get, say RCA?  Do you just write what brands you want in the comments section?
> 
> They don't have call-in orders on the weekends so..anyone?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


hi-five said:


> I would just send an email asking what they have in stock.  When I purchased some 6FD7's a few months ago they only had a couple pairs of generic white box that were suspected to be Sylvania's, you just ask to have best possible pairs and they will do their best for you.
> 
> I was delighted to find Sylvania clear-top fat bottles when they showed up.  Sounded fantastic and at 7 bucks a tube you really can't go wrong.  I've been very pleased with TubeDepot purchases; good quality stuff if not a little expensive for some tubes.


 
   
  Thanks, if I don't get through to them on the phone tomorrow, I'll give that a shot.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> My black WA3 was paid for two days ago - can't wait to receive it
> 
> Do these things need to be covered when not in use?  And other than that, is there any maintenance to be done on the thing?  How to clean it?
> 
> This is my first tube amp, and on my budget as a full time student, it was a lot of money.  I want to take care of it.  Perhaps I'll even name it...........


 

 I had a couple of custom covers made for my SE at Tap Plastics to keep the dust out.  I designed them so I don't have to unplug anything and I can get them on and off easily but they keep the dust out of the amp.  The main reason I had them made was that I worried about the tubes getting damaged when the cleaning ladies come to the house... they do a great job cleaning but I'd rather they don't polish my Princess Sophia!
   


  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Thanks, if I don't get through to them on the phone tomorrow, I'll give that a shot.


 
  I think most of these places will work with emails like this.  I usually use an e-mail to specify what I am after with Jim at http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com and he lets me know what he has in stock, prices, etc... and puts them aside for me.  If he doesn't have it sometimes he can look to get it from his sources.


----------



## Nova13

Thanks Wedge.
   
  So I tend to do a lot of listening in the evenings, but it tends to be short sessions interrupted by making dinner, showering, etc.  Is the best idea probably to just turn it on in the evening, then leave it on till I am for sure done with it (meaning it'd be on like 4 hours a night non-stop, and i'd be using it only part of that time).  Otherwise realistically i'd be turning it on an off probably 3-4 times a day - is this bad for it?
   
  Does anyone else have any good ideas for a cheap cover that I could either make or buy inexpensively?  Again, the amp I want to keep nice is a WA3, and its my first tube amp.


----------



## shipsupt

That's what I do, fire up the Woo when I get home and plan to leave it running until I shut down for the night. That is as long as I am going to be home the entire time, I don't like leaving tube amps running when no one is home, and I try to give the rig a break if I reach 8 or so hours, but this isn't typical on a normal evening. The on/off thing is not ideal for your tubes.


----------



## PanamaRed

I was planning on buying the wa2 ... then i considered the wa6se..... then this afternoon I pulled the trigger and ordered the WA22. My decision was driven predominately by users on this forum.  Now my next big decision is whether to buy a hd650 or pony up for a hd800. any advice?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I was planning on buying the wa2 ... then i considered the wa6se..... then this afternoon I pulled the trigger and ordered the WA22. My decision was driven predominately by users on this forum.  Now my next big decision is whether to buy a hd650 or pony up for a hd800. any advice?


 


  Congrats..................Smoken Panama Red!


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Thanks, if I don't get through to them on the phone tomorrow, I'll give that a shot.


 
  I won't recommend buying at tubedepot. Just like you, I was looking for 6FD7 about a month ago. I emailed them before buying and they told me they have Sylvania. So I went ahead and bought a pair, specifying the Sylvania as I have confirmed its availability. They sent me Philco instead without informing me. I could have reported them to paypal but it's so much hassle for <$20. I just won't buy from them anymore.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


clowkoy said:


> I won't recommend buying at tubedepot. Just like you, I was looking for 6FD7 about a month ago. I emailed them before buying and they told me they have Sylvania. So I went ahead and bought a pair, specifying the Sylvania as I have confirmed its availability. They sent me Philco instead without informing me. I could have reported them to paypal but it's so much hassle for <$20. I just won't buy from them anymore.


 

 Well that blows, thanks for telling.  I guess I'll try emailing vacuumtubesinc instead.


----------



## sphinxvc

. / Double post.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> My black WA3 was paid for two days ago - can't wait to receive it
> 
> Do these things need to be covered when not in use?  And other than that, is there any maintenance to be done on the thing?  How to clean it?
> 
> This is my first tube amp, and on my budget as a full time student, it was a lot of money.  I want to take care of it.  Perhaps I'll even name it...........


 


  Match Play~
   
  What Wedge replied about black Woo Audio Amps being Dust Magnets, and echoed by other owners, other witnesses in the forum, couldn't be more right! However, I would like to add that when black is done right, it is unmatched! What is a match is the higher cleaning requirement bringing you a higher, deeper satisfaction of your new amp. And yes, there is no free lunch - the window of appreciation between cleanings is very short.
   
  I use a microfiber cloth and recently purchased a $3 makeup brush in Cosmetics - Walmart. If the brush is soft enough, fine enough for a woman's cheeks, then it's soft enough for my 'Woo.' I thought about covering my amp at one time, but I actually like looking at it in the wild. Naked, it looks sooooo very sexy. I'd also add, very moving; powerful, even when at rest.
   
  I wipe my WA6SE every other day. When I 'Neak outta town for 2-3 days, I cover the entire L-shape desk with linen. When I return, none of my computers/audio gear has dust. And congrats on bringing a fine amp in to your life.


----------



## Wedge

Is it possible that your tubes were Sylvania branded as Philco?  I am not familiar with the 6FD7 at all, but many tubes are made by one company and branded as another, sometimes they are of lower quality other times they are exactly the same.  For example, the 5998 to my knowledge the are all rebranded Tung-Sol.
  
  Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> I won't recommend buying at tubedepot. Just like you, I was looking for 6FD7 about a month ago. I emailed them before buying and they told me they have Sylvania. So I went ahead and bought a pair, specifying the Sylvania as I have confirmed its availability. They sent me Philco instead without informing me. I could have reported them to paypal but it's so much hassle for <$20. I just won't buy from them anymore.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I was planning on buying the wa2 ... then i considered the wa6se..... then this afternoon I pulled the trigger and ordered the WA22. My decision was driven predominately by users on this forum.  Now my next big decision is whether to buy a hd650 or pony up for a hd800. any advice?


 

 Congratulations PR! The WA22 and HD800 is a very nice fit. I tried the HD650 briefly with the WA22 and it wasn't for me but I am more of an HD600 guy anyways. Having said that, there are many happy HD800/WA22 owners here.


----------



## Wedge

Oh, yeah grats on the WA-22, I have one, I actually love mine with the LCD-2, but I have a pair of HD-650s, but IMO they aren't in the same league as the LCD-2.


----------



## PanamaRed

I've been reading soo many things about the LCD-2 with the WA22 now im on the fence even more... LCD-2 , HD800, or HD650.. but i could basically get both a lcd2 and a hd650 for the price of a hd800.... i hate tough decisions


----------



## PanamaRed

With the LCD-2 should i get a three pin or 4 pin connector to use with the wa22?


----------



## dannie01

Well said grokit, I am also a very happy ex-owner of HD800/WA22.

  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congratulations PR! The WA22 and HD800 is a very nice fit. I tried the HD650 briefly with the WA22 and it wasn't for me but I am more of an HD600 guy anyways. Having said that, there are many happy HD800/WA22 owners here.


----------



## dannie01

There won't have any sonically different between the 4 pin and 2 x 3 pin connectors. But a 4 pin will work more easily and lighter than 2 x 3 pin as in my experience.

  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> With the LCD-2 should i get a three pin or 4 pin connector to use with the wa22?


----------



## Wedge

You can actually even just use the 1/4" to start if you don't want to get a new cable right away. The LCD-2 has a lot of seemingly very good cable choices at very reasonable prices.


----------



## Golfnutz

Exactly. I have a Philco 6F8G that is clearly made by Sylvania.


----------



## Clayton SF

Tech question: Does anyone know how long modern upgrades (caps etc.) that Jack puts in his modded-out amps last before one has to go in there and replace them? I'm just curious because I know they don't last forever. I also know that there are some head-fiers out there than have done spectacular mods on their Woos as well, like *dannie01*.


----------



## sphinxvc

Nvm.


----------



## gridlock

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The most interesting part about Jacks whole post was the blurb about the 7n7.  I'm really surprised he would come right out and say he thinks the 7n7, which is just a 6sn7 with a different base and pins for the most part (I realize this isn't totally true but as a generalization it fits), is superior to any of the direct usage tubes for the WA6.  It sort of makes me feel validated in a way since this is what I've been claiming for a while now.


 

*6DE7 *vs *7N7 *vs *6SN7*: Can someone please explain what is the real-world benefit of a 7N7 or 6SN7 over the 6DE7?  What's confusing to me is the comment on Woo Audio's web site that 'it is sonically superior to any direct substitute...'.  What does this mean practically?  What is the difference in the sound?  Better bass?  Soundstage?  And why upgrade to a 7N7 vs a 6SN7?  What is the justification for spending another $105 over the stock setup?


----------



## realmassy

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> My black WA3 was paid for two days ago - can't wait to receive it
> 
> Do these things need to be covered when not in use?  And other than that, is there any maintenance to be done on the thing?  How to clean it?
> 
> This is my first tube amp, and on my budget as a full time student, it was a lot of money.  I want to take care of it.  Perhaps I'll even name it...........


 





  Congrats on your purchase, enjoy it! I still love mine: I know there are better amps out there (I'm looking at you, WA2) but the WA3 is excellent value for money.


----------



## PanamaRed

As far as the WA22 ... can anyone vouch for the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 or perhaps something comparably priced and better.Thanks again all. you are a wealth of information


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





panamared said:


> As far as the WA22 ... can anyone vouch for the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 or perhaps something comparably priced and better.Thanks again all. you are a wealth of information


 


  I am using a W4S Dac-2 into a WA22.  The combination is fantastic!  (macbook pro / pure music - usb)


----------



## danne

Woo-ho! I've now sent my payment for an Wooaudio WA22 to go with my HD 800 along with an order for some balanced cardas cables to go with them.
  Soon I'll be enjoying lovely tube magic like the rest of you.


----------



## Wedge

Grats on your purchase, soon after you'll be tube rolling and broke like the rest of us as well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Is it possible that your tubes were Sylvania branded as Philco?  I am not familiar with the 6FD7 at all, but many tubes are made by one company and branded as another, sometimes they are of lower quality other times they are exactly the same.  For example, the 5998 to my knowledge the are all rebranded Tung-Sol.


 
  This is my thought as well.  All the Philco 6FD7 I have seen have in fact been rebranded Sylvanias.


----------



## WindyCityCy

You are really going to enjoy this combo.  Great choice!
  
  Quote: 





danne said:


> Woo-ho! I've now sent my payment for an Wooaudio WA22 to go with my HD 800 along with an order for some balanced cardas cables to go with them.
> Soon I'll be enjoying lovely tube magic like the rest of you.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I also have the WA22 and W4S DAC2.  I couldn't be more happy.  Both are excellent products from people who care about their customers.
  
  Quote: 





davo50 said:


> I am using a W4S Dac-2 into a WA22.  The combination is fantastic!  (macbook pro / pure music - usb)


----------



## Wedge

As much as I bug Jack, it really wouldn't surprise me if he hates me by now.  But in general, I agree Jack does care about his customers, atleast from my experience in dealing with him.  My wallet probably regrets me ever meeting Jack, but my ears certainly don't.


----------



## wisheart

I live in Taiwan, and I want to buy WA6SE full upgrade verson.
 But I have a friend who bought WA6SE through the Taiwan version of the agent, and he received the capacitor WA6SE goods has not been upgraded.
 Now I buy WA6SE have such problems?


----------



## Icenine2

I think most of those are BlackGate upgrades.  The break-in is killer on those.  hundreds of hours I believe.


----------



## Icenine2

Get the 4 pin.  I have my Tesla T-1's hooked up that way and it is much easier cleaner solution that does the same exact thing.


----------



## Icenine2

I have a DAC2 as well.  I'm Windows based w/J River player (super easy to use).  The DAC is really sweet and mine isn't even broken in yet  Balanced for the WA22 as well.  To me it is the best choice for the WA22 unless you've got serious bucks and want to buy a DCS.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wisheart said:


> I live in Taiwan, and I want to buy WA6SE full upgrade verson.
> But I have a friend who bought WA6SE through the Taiwan version of the agent, and he received the capacitor WA6SE goods has not been upgraded.
> Now I buy WA6SE have such problems?


 

 I didn't think that Woo Audio had a Taiwan agent. I believe that you can order directly from their website with no upgrade problems if you work things out via email with Jack before you order.


----------



## wisheart

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I didn't think that Woo Audio had a Taiwan agent. I believe that you can order directly from their website with no upgrade problems if you work things out via email with Jack before you order.


 


  I'm sorry I slip of the tongue, and should be said that the stores in Taiwan to woo audio Order WA6SE full upgraded version of my friend again after that buy goods stores. According to his argument is woo audio has replied that because the upgrade of the capacitor is not out of stock so they are so ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wisheart said:


> I'm sorry I slip of the tongue, and should be said that the stores in Taiwan to woo audio Order WA6SE full upgraded version of my friend again after that buy goods stores. According to his argument is woo audio has replied that because the upgrade of the capacitor is not out of stock so they are so ...


 

 Woo Audio will build your amp with your requested upgrades. When I ordered my WA2 with upgrades they had not received their supply of stepped attenuators and were waiting for a shipment from their distributor. When Jack got his supply of replacement attenuators he completed the build of my amp. It pushed back the delivery date but it was built with the upgrades I wanted. His customer service ethics is excellent.


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is my thought as well.  All the Philco 6FD7 I have seen have in fact been rebranded Sylvanias.


 
  This is good news if it's true but how do we know it's a rebranded Sylvania? I saw a Philips at ebay that the seller claimed to be a rebranded Sylvania.


----------



## Wedge

Date Codes is one way to know, some research on the tube generally will let you know.


----------



## wisheart

I would like to ask, WA6 and WA6SE, then DENON D7000 Which one sounds better? Comparing these two kinds of people connected D7000 difference?


----------



## oldwine

I also heard a guy also got this case, but his one is WA2, Jack should remember it, he ordered the WA2 with the BlackGate Caps upgrade and the 7236, but when he opened the box, no 7236 included, he further opened the case and find all are in stock!!!
   
  Jack admitted his fault that the order was marked "BlackGate upgrade" but the stock one was built. I once told my friend to return it to Jack and replace the one he ordered, on both shipping @Jack's cost (i think it's fair, as Jack's mistake). However, my friend finally kept the stock one and asked Jack to refund the difference.
   
  Anyway, i agree Jack's service is good and such case maybe just by mistake, also his solution is acceptable.
   
  Quote:


clayton sf said:


> Woo Audio will build your amp with your requested upgrades. When I ordered my WA2 with upgrades they had not received their supply of stepped attenuators and were waiting for a shipment from their distributor. When Jack got his supply of replacement attenuators he completed the build of my amp. It pushed back the delivery date but it was built with the upgrades I wanted. His customer service ethics is excellent.


----------



## Icenine2

The Cavalli Liquid Fire is sure nice looking
   
http://cavalliaudio.com/products/liquid-fire-amp/
   
http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-listen-cavalli-audio-liquid-fire-hybrid-headphone-amplifier


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





wisheart said:


> I would like to ask, WA6 and WA6SE, then DENON D7000 Which one sounds better? Comparing these two kinds of people connected D7000 difference?


 

 Not sure what you're asking. Are you inquiring which amp sounds better with the D7000? If you have a D7000 I would not recommend either amp since they sound best through a SS amp unless you're getting a WA22 or higher.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Not sure what you're asking. Are you inquiring which amp sounds better with the D7000? If you have a D7000 I would not recommend either amp since they sound best through a SS amp unless you're getting a WA22 or higher.


 
   
  X2, It sounds great on WA22 but it rocks on Burson.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				jc9394 said:
			
		

> X2, It sounds great on WA22 but it rocks on Burson.


 

 Speaking of 22--Does it also rock with a Beta 22?


----------



## gridlock

Quote: 





gridlock said:


> *6DE7 *vs *7N7 *vs *6SN7*: Can someone please explain what is the real-world benefit of a 7N7 or 6SN7 over the 6DE7?  What's confusing to me is the comment on Woo Audio's web site that 'it is sonically superior to any direct substitute...'.  What does this mean practically?  What is the difference in the sound?  Better bass?  Soundstage?  And why upgrade to a 7N7 vs a 6SN7?  What is the justification for spending another $105 over the stock setup?


 
  Anyone?  With all the discussion here about various tube types, surely _someone _should have some idea about this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Thanks


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Speaking of 22--Does it also rock with a Beta 22?




It better, I can't find a 4 board beta22 yet.

OT, going to your city end of May, wanna try a GEC tubes?


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote: 





gridlock said:


> Anyone?  With all the discussion here about various tube types, surely _someone _should have some idea about this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would also like some clarification, as to the above. My real query is "do I buy the to 7N7 coverter, of await the 6SN7 converter?" I would rather not miss out on the $105 promo offer for the 7N7 converter, while Jack is kind enough to offer it.


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Speaking of 22--Does it also rock with a Beta 22?


 

 Yes it absolutely does. Going by how my Denon sounds through my Apache, I'm guessing it will sound similar.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> This is good news if it's true but how do we know it's a rebranded Sylvania? I saw a Philips at ebay that the seller claimed to be a rebranded Sylvania.


 


  Post a photo of yours.  The Sylvania plate structure is easy to identify.


----------



## gridlock

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> I would also like some clarification, as to the above. My real query is "do I buy the to 7N7 coverter, of await the 6SN7 converter?" I would rather not miss out on the $105 promo offer for the 7N7 converter, while Jack is kind enough to offer it.


 
   
  Is Jack making a 6SN7 converter?  If so, any idea when it's coming?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> My real query is "do I buy the to 7N7 coverter, of await the 6SN7 converter?" I would rather not miss out on the $105 promo offer for the 7N7 converter, while Jack is kind enough to offer it.


 

  
  This is really a matter of personal preference.  The 7N7 is cheaper but not as plentiful nor are there as many choices.  The 6SN7 is popular and lots of people sell them, but the prices are generally higher.  In some cases a lot higher if you pursue the more famous ones. 
   
  The only way to know if you like the 6SN7 sound in your WA6 is to try one because the sonic signature is notably different than the 6DE7 family.  I've written about it at great length in many posts before, but if I had to summarize quick and dirty I think it makes the amp more refined and more resolving, but also more laid back.  That last part was a good thing for me, it may not be a good thing for everybody.


----------



## sampson_smith

Thanks for the heads-up! I assume that the sound signature you speak of (6SN7) also applies to the 7N7, with the remaining main difference between the two being availability and price?


----------



## PanamaRed

Ok guys... To recap... Thanks to the advice of people on this forum (and mostly on this thread) I have pulled the trigger and ordered a Woo Audio WA22 and a Wyred4Sound DAC-2.  Now the moment of truth... Audeze LCD-2 or the HD800? I listen predominately to blues and rock with Grateful Dead FLACs taking up 90% of my listening time.Thanks again all for the advice


----------



## WindyCityCy

I personally would pick my balanced HD800 for blues and Grateful Dead listening.  If I could buy only 1 of my headphones it would be my first choice with the WA22.  That doesn't mean I don't like the LCD2 ... it is great.  But the HD800 gets the edge with your requirements due to comfort and soundstage. 
  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Ok guys... To recap... Thanks to the advice of people on this forum (and mostly on this thread) I have pulled the trigger and ordered a Woo Audio WA22 and a Wyred4Sound DAC-2.  Now the moment of truth... Audeze LCD-2 or the HD800? I listen predominately to blues and rock with Grateful Dead FLACs taking up 90% of my listening time.Thanks again all for the advice


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Thanks for the heads-up! I assume that the sound signature you speak of (6SN7) also applies to the 7N7, with the remaining main difference between the two being availability and price?


 


  It should.  The two are very closely related from an electrical standpoint, but I've only used the 6SN7 so I cannot confirm it for you through personal experience.  The 7N7 is often recommended to 6SN7 users who are seeking more affordable tube prices.


----------



## Skylab

PanamaRed, I listen to a LOT of live GD, and I much prefer it on the LCD-2. Just as an FYI/FWIW.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I personally would pick my balanced HD800 for blues and Grateful Dead listening.  If I could buy only 1 of my headphones it would be my first choice with the WA22.  That doesn't mean I don't like the LCD2 ... it is great.  But the HD800 gets the edge with your requirements due to comfort and soundstage.


 


  x2  I have both and I agree - balanced hd800 with WA22.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

panamared said:


> Ok guys... To recap... Thanks to the advice of people on this forum (and mostly on this thread) I have pulled the trigger and ordered a Woo Audio WA22 and a Wyred4Sound DAC-2.  Now the moment of truth... Audeze LCD-2 or the HD800? I listen predominately to blues and rock with Grateful Dead FLACs taking up 90% of my listening time.Thanks again all for the advice




Fair warning. I just received my HD800s today and only have a couple hours on them... including Charlie Miller's new 3-13-82 Set II release. IMO so far, the LCD-2s are a better fit for live Dead. With the HD800s, I was constantly aware of the deficiencies of the recording (which is not to say it's a deficient release, BTW). With the LCD-2s, I can just relax and let the boys play without picking at imperfections.

Let your personal listening style be your guide.


----------



## PanamaRed

ohh wow 2 v 2.. with 2 dead heads pro lcd-2 ... im so on the fence here


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

panamared said:


> ohh wow 2 v 2.. with 2 dead heads pro lcd-2 ... im so on the fence here




Honestly, I wouldn't sweat it too much. With a W4S DAC2 and a WA22, you're going to be loving life either way.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I agree.  Pick either and you're going to have an awesome time.
  
  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## FlyingBear

Hi folks,
   
  I'm torn between HD800/WA22 and SR-007 MkII/WES, and am asking for your sage advice....
   
  What a wonderful forum and thread, and what great community spirit there is here. I hope that you'll welcome a newcomer (me!).
   
  First, a simple question: I emailed Woo Audio a couple of days ago with some questions, and haven't heard back. Does anyone know if they're closed for the week because of Easter? I only ask because I've heard how responsive they are, and I'm a buyer asking questions and ready to order, so I'm surprised not to have heard back yet. There's no discoverable 'phone number, as y'all know.
   
  35 years ago, as a high-schooler, I visited an audio show in the UK, put on a pair of Stax headphones, and have never forgotten the experience; it was...amazing. Now, with (slightly) more money than I had 35 years ago, it may be time to take the plunge. I've been listening to lovingly-ripped EAC/AccurateRip FLACs on HD650 and Etymotic ER4-S via a Total Bithead for a few years, and want to step up.
   
  I've decided on the W4S DAC-2, fed perfect bits, including 24/92 material available for purchase on the web, by a PC/Mac. That's the easy part. The hard part is deciding between balanced HD800/WA22 with upgrades, and SR-007 MkII/WES without upgrades ($4990 is alreay ouchy). Yes, a huge price difference, but that's not the issue.
   
  So, please forgive a newbie, but:
   
  1. Will I hear a "wow, I can't believe how much better it is" difference between the HD650/Bithead and the two choices above? I ask because, frankly, while I like the HD650s, they don't wow me, and they should. They don't "involve" me. Given how much people love the HD650, the problem may lie with my ears.
   
  2. For a newcomer to the high end, is the extra quality of the Stax/WES combo going to be wasted on me, i.e. does it take a few years of listening to appreciate the finer nuances?
   
  3. The WES ties me for ever to Stax (or, ok, HE90). The next step up from the SR-007 MkII -- the SR-009 -- costs twice as much. The WA22 will let me buy the next "best headphones ever" in a year or two, or even experiment with my current HD650 and other high-end dynamics. Yes, I know: "buy the WES and the WA-22". Maybe I'll do that. But, seriously, how much does this factor into your decisions? The sheer beauty of the WES as an objet d'art attracts me too, as I'm sure it does others.
   
  4. Am I foolish to not upgrade the WES? Tubes are easy follow-on purchases, but will the other upgrades also possibly be wasted on me?
   
  Thanks in advance for your kind thoughts. I won't claim to have read all 600+ pages of this thread, but I've read about a third of them, so I'm beginning to get good information aleady.
   
  Regards, Alex.


----------



## Wedge

Sometimes Jack, can take a few to respond, but he will generally respond in my experience.  Thats quite a major price difference in comparing the two, I'm not sure its really a fair comparison.  Plus from what I understand Jack is working on another amp that is supposed to be quite special for dynamics.  Anyways, I have the WA-22 and I will say that in my opinion its an awesome amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> I would also like some clarification, as to the above. My real query is "do I buy the to 7N7 coverter, of await the 6SN7 converter?" I would rather not miss out on the $105 promo offer for the 7N7 converter, while Jack is kind enough to offer it.


 


   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It should.  The two are very closely related from an electrical standpoint, but I've only used the 6SN7 so I cannot confirm it for you through personal experience.  The 7N7 is often recommended to 6SN7 users who are seeking more affordable tube prices.


 

 I made some 7N7/7AF7 to 6DE7 adapters for the WA6 a wile back and there was no interest so I dismantled them to reuse the loctal sockets.
  I have one pair left I will sell cheep if some one wants to try the 7N7 before they spend a crazy $105 on the  adapters.


----------



## sampson_smith

Hmmm... Sounds like a good idea! I'll PM you shortly, glenn.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm torn between HD800/WA22 and SR-007 MkII/WES, and am asking for your sage advice....


 
  If you can get hold of the SCHIIT Valhalla, do give it a try with the HD800
  IMO the HD800/Valhalla combo ROCKS!
  Though I have the WA22 too, my preferred choice for HD800 is the Valhalla.
   
  For all my other headphones(Grados) the WA22 is absolutely fantastic


----------



## jc9394

How about HD800 and LCD-2 with WA22?  I know it is not the same but I'm pretty happy with them and they do hold me back a bit on getting the 007...
   
  Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> I'm torn between HD800/WA22 and SR-007 MkII/WES, and am asking for your sage advice....


----------



## the_equalizer

My WA2 is in the house!  It was a nightmarish two weeks dealing with customs, all because I made a mistake in the shipping address; but it's finally over.
   
  I've already listened to some opera and piano and it's a lovely amp; it puts out less volume than my WA6 + 6FD7, but it's silky smooth and handles dynamics really well. I'm hoping to try Chesky's new binaural record when I finish typing this.
   
  A couple of crappy pics (I really need to learn how to use my camera)
   

   

   
  Now I only have to build that Audiosector Gainclone and see how it pairs with my new toy. I'll tell you how it goes.
   
  cheers


----------



## Clayton SF

Congratulations!
  AGAIN!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  What a beautiful addition to your listening arsenal. That diminutive EZ80 hiding behind that large 6080 is a powerhouse rectifier.
   
  EDIT: Didn't we each receive a WA6 at about the same time?


----------



## FlyingBear

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How about HD800 and LCD-2 with WA22?  I know it is not the same but I'm pretty happy with them and they do hold me back a bit on getting the 007...


 

 Ooh. More agony of indecision, but a *great *suggestion. Many thanks.


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> AGAIN!!!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks Clayton! So far I'm liking very much what I hear from the WA2. I hope I can find a way not to sell my WA6 and keep them both  
   
  cheers!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Plus from what I understand Jack is working on another amp that is supposed to be quite special for dynamics.


 


  Any word on where it is supposed to slot into the product line?


----------



## Wedge

Very High End, top of the line probably.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So a new range topper, or possibly a replacement for the WA5 which was designed before many of the other current products I believe.  Interesting.  Out of my reach, but still interesting.


----------



## Wedge

Well I guess I can't sweat that too much.  I already got my WA-5, and btw I had been previously told many times that the LCD-2 are not quite that good out of the WA-5.  I just got my Q-Audio cables in one is 1/4in the other is 4 pin XLR.  So I am using the K1K port on my WA-5 right now, and I think the LCD-2s sing.  I think I actually like it better than with WA-22, I didn't like the LCD-2 with the 1/4" on the WA-5 as much as the WA-22 and LCD-2.  But using the K1K port is nice.


----------



## vinyllp33

I would be very surprised if Jack replaced the WA5.

I could envision maybe a design that used different output tubes than the 300B; like a dual or even tri-chassis WA22 on steroids?

Wedge, I had the same experience with the WA5/LCD2, the high power jack sounded much better; As well it should as it is putting out 6-7 watts into the LCD2 load.

If you dig that sound you must try a pair of HE-6's with the high power output, there is quite a synergy happening that is quite special.

Cheers.


----------



## dannie01

I connect my LCD-2 to the WA5LE with a 1/4" plug (with adapter from 4 pin XLR to 1/4" plug) and found there is different presentation from the dual 3 pin XLR with adapter to a 4 pin XLR connected to a 4 boards Beta 22. The B22 makes the LCD-2 much sturdy and juice in bass, more impact and punch. The WA5LE have a softer bass but not as deep as the B22 can drive but very nice in mid range of vocal. I have a question about how is the output different from a 4 pin output from a WA5 and the regular 1/4" plug from a WA5LE. They should have very similar output but what I read is what you stated the WA5 is more powerful on the 4 pin K1K output.
  
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> Well I guess I can't sweat that too much.  I already got my WA-5, and btw I had been previously told many times that the LCD-2 are not quite that good out of the WA-5.  I just got my Q-Audio cables in one is 1/4in the other is 4 pin XLR.  So I am using the K1K port on my WA-5 right now, and I think the LCD-2s sing.  I think I actually like it better than with WA-22, I didn't like the LCD-2 with the 1/4" on the WA-5 as much as the WA-22 and LCD-2.  But using the K1K port is nice.


----------



## vinyllp33

Absolutely, the K1K jack is putting out speaker level power rated at 8 watts into the K1000's 120ohm impedance load.

This is the main difference between the WA5LE, the speaker outputs on the WA5 are really just a bonus as the amp is already designed to utilize the full power output from the 300B's.

The standard 1/4in outputs by comparison are producing 1.5 watts per channel, albeit a very beefy 1.5 watts.

In fact Jack told me that because of how well the K1K jack drives the new planars (i.e. HE-6, LCD2), that he may rename it "high-power".

BTW, this is why one should never activate the K1K or speaker outputs with no load connected as this could damage the output transformers, but this is basically true with all tube amps.


----------



## sillysally

I asked Jack if there is any benefit with the WA5-LE to add a XLR jack over the SE jack, he told me non.Same watts same power.


----------



## vinyllp33

Check out the amplifier comparison chart on Woo Audio's website under the News section, it states 8 watts per channel for K1000 @120ohm and Speaker out at the same 8 watts at 8 ohms. But yes, the 1/4in outs are exactly the same on both amps.

I can assure you that with the HE-6's the difference on the WA-5 from the 1.5 watts from 1/4 inch out versus the 6 or 7 watts from the K1K output into their 50 ohm impedance is not subtle. 

And it is not really a question of loudness per se, but the sense of drive, dynamics, etc. 

I think someone else on the forum also had the HE-6 with the WA5 and mentioned comparing the two different outputs.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> If you can get hold of the SCHIIT Valhalla, do give it a try with the HD800
> IMO the HD800/Valhalla combo ROCKS!
> Though I have the WA22 too, my preferred choice for HD800 is the Valhalla.
> 
> For all my other headphones(Grados) the WA22 is absolutely fantastic


 
   
  That's quite an endorsement for the Valhalla but it makes me wonder what tubes you had in your WA22 for comparison or if you tried various combinations.


----------



## Wedge

Yeah the K1K port is real sweet for the Orthos it seems.  Everyone keeps saying magic with the HE-6, but there is some damn good magic going on with the LCD-2 there as well. I don't own HE-6s yet, perhaps I'll order them this weekend.  I wish Steve Eddy would make his cables for HE-6, but anyways, yeah seems the WA-5 > Q Audio Cable > LCD-2 is working for me right now.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I asked Jack if there is any benefit with the WA5-LE to add a XLR jack over the SE jack, he told me non.Same watts same power.


 


  LOL
   
  I'm wondering how can squeeze the absolute power output if Jack can provide some mod on the WA5LE, make it output as powerful as the WA5 to drive the planners would be a very good idea.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> LOL
> 
> I'm wondering how can squeeze the absolute power output if Jack can provide some mod on the WA5LE, make it output as powerful as the WA5 to drive the planners would be a very good idea.


 



 Its very simple (not), get a pair of original (40's up to 65) nos WE300B's that test very strong (76-80). My 300B's tested at 80 for both 5V and 4.35 V.
   
  Its my understanding that using the HE-6 with the WA5/LE is that most get better results using the high imp jack. With my WA5/LE and tubes I find that using the low imp jack gives better results with everything. The one thing that the high imp jack does is make my amp louder at the same setting my Alps RK50 is set at for low imp, but using the low imp jack I have enough volume to make me loose my hearing.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Yeah the K1K port is real sweet for the Orthos it seems.  Everyone keeps saying magic with the HE-6, but there is some damn good magic going on with the LCD-2 there as well. I don't own HE-6s yet, perhaps I'll order them this weekend.  I wish Steve Eddy would make his cables for HE-6, but anyways, yeah seems the WA-5 > Q Audio Cable > LCD-2 is working for me right now.


 


  The HE-6 comes with a very good cable, I don't think that you can improve it much.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's quite an endorsement for the Valhalla but it makes me wonder what tubes you had in your WA22 for comparison or if you tried various combinations.


 
  I am running the WA22 with stock tubes.
  I was made to understand that certain tube upgrades would benefit in running the HD800 with the WA22, but they would cost almost as much as the Valhalla.
  Since all my other headphones; Grados(PS1000/GS1000i/RS1i) and even the LCD-2s sounded great with the stock tubes of WA22, I decided to audition the Valhalla first instead of going straightaway for the better tubes option.
   
  The Valhalla was a revelation. It just seemed to bring the best out of the HD800.
  And at it's price point IMO it's a no brainer
   
  For my other headphones, WA22 beats the SCHIIT out of the Valhalla 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Other Amps : Nuforce Icon HDP, Fi00E9/E7, Grado RA1, ALO Rx MKII
  Sources : Olive 6HD Music server, Cambridge 840C , iPOD Classic


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Yeah the K1K port is real sweet for the Orthos it seems.  Everyone keeps saying magic with the HE-6, but there is some damn good magic going on with the LCD-2 there as well. I don't own HE-6s yet, perhaps I'll order them this weekend.  I wish Steve Eddy would make his cables for HE-6, but anyways, yeah seems the WA-5 > Q Audio Cable > LCD-2 is working for me right now.


 

 No doubt, the LCD-2's really open up when given some power!
   
  On the surface they seem easier to drive than the HE-6's but they can certainly suck up some watts.
   
  Wedge, did you get your EML 5U4G yet? They will really be a game changer when used in the WA5, I have used many rectifiers with good results but nothing comes close to the EML; Of course YMMV.


----------



## Wedge

I have not received them yet


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Its very simple (not), get a pair of original (40's up to 65) nos WE300B's that test very strong (76-80). My 300B's tested at 80 for both 5V and 4.35 V.
> 
> Its my understanding that using the HE-6 with the WA5/LE is that most get better results using the high imp jack. With my WA5/LE and tubes I find that using the low imp jack gives better results with everything. The one thing that the high imp jack does is make my amp louder at the same setting my Alps RK50 is set at for low imp, but using the low imp jack I have enough volume to make me loose my hearing.


 

 Wise advise ss, thanks. For a pair of NOS WE300B, I would better trade the WA5LE and buy a new WA5 is more easier not to only say the $. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I'm curious what would be the next new amp from Jack if over the WA5, must be interesting.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Wise advise ss, thanks. For a pair of NOS WE300B, I would better trade the WA5LE and buy a new WA5 is more easier not to only say the $.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, you better finish up working on those mods in your current Woo before you even start to think about getting the next mystery Woo.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, you better finish up working on those mods in your current Woo before you even start to think about getting the next mystery Woo.


 

 I stopped after the Shallco attenuator, it really a tire work, maybe later but absolutely not now to continue..........................


----------



## dannie01

I have a question on the LCD-2 and a Woo amp, hope someone could help on this.
   
  The LCD-2 by now is around 20 hrs, I bought a second hand Apuresound V3 cable locally and swapped the connectors into 2 mini-xlr plugs for the LCD-2. Found that the sound is a bit too dark, the highs are hiding somewhere not crisp enough and not detail as expected even with the 4 boards Beta 22. I was wondering this would be the charaterictics of the APS cable or, I know, be patient and let the LCD-2 burn-in for another 200 hrs and it will really sings?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I have a question on the LCD-2 and a Woo amp, hope someone could help on this.
> 
> The LCD-2 by now is around 20 hrs, I bought a second hand Apuresound V3 cable locally and swapped the connectors into 2 mini-xlr plugs for the LCD-2. Found that the sound is a bit too dark, the highs are hiding somewhere not crisp enough and not detail as expected even with the 4 boards Beta 22. I was wondering this would be the charaterictics of the APS cable or, I know, be patient and let the LCD-2 burn-in for another 200 hrs and it will really sings?


 
   
  Maybe something wrong with your beta22??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You may send it to me to do further testing for you since you are so busy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Personally, I do not notice much change on burn with LCD-2.  I do find it a little dark after I use the HD800 for a while.  Try to listen to the LCD-2 only for a while to see if you head is burn in the LCD-2 sound signature.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I have a question on the LCD-2 and a Woo amp, hope someone could help on this.
> 
> The LCD-2 by now is around 20 hrs, I bought a second hand Apuresound V3 cable locally and swapped the connectors into 2 mini-xlr plugs for the LCD-2. Found that the sound is a bit too dark, the highs are hiding somewhere not crisp enough and not detail as expected even with the 4 boards Beta 22. I was wondering this would be the charaterictics of the APS cable or, I know, be patient and let the LCD-2 burn-in for another 200 hrs and it will really sings?


 

 The V3 cable is a silver ribbon wire wrapped around a copper core with an insulator between silver and copper (like a coax cable, or like a sushi roll) - you have to be careful to solder both wires to the connectors to get the proper connection.  Alex usually prefers to re-terminate them himself to ensure it's done properly.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Maybe something wrong with your beta22???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha John, what a great idea, you pay the UPS and I'll send it to you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You should be right, my head and ears need more burn-in for the LCD-2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, does anyone use any aftermarket cable that can make it sound a bit brighter?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Haha John, what a great idea, you pay the UPS and I'll send it to you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I use the Silver Dragon and do notice is slightly brighter than the stock cable.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> The V3 cable is a silver ribbon wire wrapped around a copper core with an insulator between silver and copper (like a coax cable, or like a sushi roll) - you have to be careful to solder both wires to the connectors to get the proper connection.  Alex usually prefers to re-terminate them himself to ensure it's done properly.


 


 Thanks for the advise, Larry. I just only stripped off the outter jacket of the cables and soldered it to the mini-plugs easily. If it is that complicate in the structure, maybe I should send it back to Alex and have him re-terminate the cable for a better result.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I use the Silver Dragon and do notice is slightly brighter than the stock cable.


 
   
  Is it the one below? The price seems quite reasonable, I was thinking about the Stefan Cable-Endorphin but it cost me an arm. Would you mind elaborate more about how it sound with the LCD-2 and WA22? Thanks.


----------



## Broken Arrow

Hi all ,
   
  since i just bought the WA 5LE i thought i'd register and join the forum.
  Now i have to wait for the amp to arrive , should be 2 to 3 weeks Jack told me.
   
  bought the amp , the upgrade package an the teflon sockets.
   
  i am going to buy a pc with touchscreen monitor with J.River installed.
  next thing i need is a nice USB DAC. i was thinking about the W4S DAC-2.
  I have the AKG 701. Been thinking about the HD800 , thats why i bought the amp....
   
  So the question is..... which DAC under 2000 US ( or approx 1500 EURO ) is giving me a great sound and is "future-proof"...
   
  any input is welcome
   
  Alonso


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

I'd recommend Red Wine Audio's Isabellina DAC.


----------



## Silent One

WA6 SE monoblocks _____
   
  Anyone ever 'block' a pair of WA6 SE's to a preamp? If so, what source/preamp and your impressions? Also, are the LCD2's a good match with good drive (sufficient) with the 6 SE? Refund cometh shortly - we are now shopping!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> WA6 SE monoblocks _____
> 
> Anyone ever 'block' a pair of WA6 SE's to a preamp? If so, what source/preamp and your impressions? Also, are the LCD2's a good match with good drive (sufficient) with the 6 SE? Refund cometh shortly - we are now shopping!




Refund??? Lucky guy, I just wish it is a wash with uncle Sam.

WA6SE, if you can use the 6FD7, it should drive it fine.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sillysally said:


> The HE-6 comes with a very good cable, I don't think that you can improve it much.




Agreed. 

Actually the new LCD-2 ADZ-5 cable is very good too for that matter.


----------



## MacedonianHero

shahzada123 said:


> I am running the WA22 with stock tubes.
> I was made to understand that certain tube upgrades would benefit in running the HD800 with the WA22, but they would cost almost as much as the Valhalla.
> Since all my other headphones; Grados(PS1000/GS1000i/RS1i) and even the LCD-2s sounded great with the stock tubes of WA22, I decided to audition the Valhalla first instead of going straightaway for the better tubes option.
> 
> ...




I prefer my WA2 with my T1s and HD800s by a reasonable margin (5998 Tung-Sols x2, CV2492 Mullards x2, and EZ80 Telefunken x2) over my Lyr (6922 Genalex Gold Lions). But with my LCD-2s and HE-6s, it the other way around.


----------



## Wedge

My friend had the ADZ-5 cable break on him, cold solder joint.  I actually don't use mine as I prefer the Q-Audio cable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

How do you know it was a cold solder joint? They are most likely using lead-free RoHS compliant solder....which pretty much looks like a cold solder joint when using eutectic solder.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> Hi all ,
> 
> since i just bought the WA 5LE i thought i'd register and join the forum.
> Now i have to wait for the amp to arrive , should be 2 to 3 weeks Jack told me.
> ...


 



 Sony MDR-CD-870 headphones and AKG 701 headphones were what I used for about a year. You may find the AKG 701s a little too middle emphasizing and accentuating after a while but you will be in love none the less! Welcome!


----------



## Wedge

My friend looked at it, not me, I was just inclined to believe him, as he does quite a bit of soldering at his work.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> How do you know it was a cold solder joint? They are most likely using lead-free RoHS compliant solder....which pretty much looks like a cold solder joint when using eutectic solder.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

_jc9394, remember, Schedule C is your friend_.      
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




       6FD7? Returned 'em to Jack. I'm a 6SN7 man - Team Raytheon. The WA22 is the next logical upgrade in the family. And may yet get there at a later date. But the path to monoblocks has me intrigued for now.


----------



## MacedonianHero

wedge said:


> My friend looked at it, not me, I was just inclined to believe him, as he does quite a bit of soldering at his work.




Glad that he is handy with a solder iron.


----------



## bergnerm

Congrats, equalizer... I've got just shy of 200 hrs. on my new WA2, and couldn't be happier (not that I've experienced that many other amps). It continues to improve too.
   
  Don't know if you're a classical music fan, but I've really been enjoying a CD compilation collection "Classical Top 1000", available from Amazon for ~USD 120 – 135 range. It's a 75 CD collection with, as you might cleverly deduce, 1000 of the top classical music pieces. The biggest criticism I've seen of this collection is that the songs are rather haphazardly thrown onto the CDs in no particular order--this criticism is well founded, but with proper tagging, this ceases to be a real issue for many computer players.
   
  When I purchased it, I figured the recordings would be crappy second-rate recordings, but that there would be a few songs I didn't yet have in my now fairly extensive classical collection. The latter certainly proved to be true, but the former is far from the truth--many of the recordings on this collection are better than the ones I had already in my collection. Most are superb both musically and from a recording standpoint. One does hear the occasional squeaky chair, audience cough, or semi-truck rolling by outside, but these are blemishes (or "character adding features") I find even on some of my other excellent recordings.
   
  So if you want a quick and cheap way to exercise your WA2, for ~10 to 15 cents per tune, you can't go wrong.
   
  Oh, and your pics are nice... they show a sparkling new beautiful amp in its pristine glory. If you want to show some nice tube glow, you'll probably have to dim the room lights, turn off the flash, and set the exposure for 1-10 sec. (depending on ISO settings and aperture)--and definitely use a tripod or other fixed stand... you won't be able to handhold that shot.
   
  So enjoy, and keep us posted as you burn it in.
  
  Quote: 





the_equalizer said:


> Thanks Clayton! So far I'm liking very much what I hear from the WA2. I hope I can find a way not to sell my WA6 and keep them both
> 
> cheers!


----------



## bergnerm

Welcome to the forum, Broken Arrow, and way to make an entrance with a WA 5LE. We'll be anxious to hear your impressions when it arrives.
  
  Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> Hi all ,
> 
> since i just bought the WA 5LE i thought i'd register and join the forum.
> Now i have to wait for the amp to arrive , should be 2 to 3 weeks Jack told me.
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> WA6 SE monoblocks _____
> 
> Anyone ever 'block' a pair of WA6 SE's to a preamp? If so, what source/preamp and your impressions? Also, are the LCD2's a good match with good drive (sufficient) with the 6 SE? Refund cometh shortly - we are now shopping!




I've been listening with then LCD-2 from my SE for about three weeks now. Im still rolling trying to find the tubes I like best, but in general I think they pair up just fine, no problem on the power front.

I think I'm one of those that still needs to get my head burned in for the LCD signature. There are nights when I am amazed and others when I feel like it's off. This is opposed to my HE-5LE which seem to always sound amazing to me right when I pop them on my head. Tube selection doesn't seem to matter, they just always sound good to me off the SE. 

I'd be interested if anyone has any recommendations on tubes they find do specifically well with the SE and LCD-2


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Wise advise ss, thanks. For a pair of NOS WE300B, I would better trade the WA5LE and buy a new WA5 is more easier not to only say the $.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just to clarify, the WA5 has the same out put wattage and power as the WA5LE using a RCA jack or the XLR jack in the WA5. At-least that is what Jack told me.
   
  So changing the WA5LE for a WA5 would be no help when using the HE-6.
   
  Anyway I already had my tube combo in place when I got the HE-6's. The good news for me is that I haven't had to do any buying of tubes for almost a year now so at-least that is bring down the cost of the WE300B's. Even my K701's sound great with my WA5LE as does the rest of my headphones, but that is more than I can say with my WA6SE.
  My soul reason for getting the WA5LE was because no matter what I did with my WA6SE and supporting gears I could not achieve my goal of finding the Holy Grail of tube's and amp combo, as I have done now with my WA5LE.
   
  On a side note, my HE-6's are the best headphones I have now because no matter what type of audio I use the HE-6 is better and that includes my HD-800's.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Just to clarify, the WA5 has the same out put wattage and power as the WA5LE using a RCA jack or the XLR jack in the WA5. At-least that is what Jack told me.


 
   
  Thats not what his PDF file indicates.  The 1/4" jack on the WA-5 is supposed to be the equivalent of both outputs on the WA-5LE, but the XLR jack on the WA-5 (I am pretty sure that it uses different tap on the transformer), so its output capability into the same load would be different.  The LCD-2s are definitely seeing more power output capability out of the XLR than the 1/4" jack regardless of my choice of Low or High impedance, and by a lot.  I have to significantly reduce the volume on the amp to have the same output levels.  Did Jack do a custom hook up to the output transformer for your 1/4" to make it output like the K1K port on the WA-5?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Thats not what his PDF file indicates.  The 1/4" jack on the WA-5 is supposed to be the equivalent of both outputs on the WA-5LE, but the XLR jack on the WA-5 (I am pretty sure that it uses different tap on the transformer), so its output capability into the same load would be different.  The LCD-2s are definitely seeing more power output capability out of the XLR than the 1/4" jack regardless of my choice of Low or High impedance, and by a lot.  I have to significantly reduce the volume on the amp to have the same output levels.  Did Jack do a custom hook up to the output transformer for your 1/4" to make it output like the K1K port on the WA-5?


 
  I asked Jack about installing a XLR jack the same way he installs the XLR jack in the WA5. He said there is no benefit and no change from the WA5 or the WA5LE as far as power or wattage goes. So there was no reason to have Jack change my WA5LE.
  Yes it is my understanding that the XLR jack will increase the volume level over a RCA jack in most any amp.
  But as I have said from the start that the volume level is not the main factored when powering the HE-6, its the power of the amp that makes the HE-6 really something special. I have the volume with my WA6SE but not the power of the WA5LE, so the HE-6 really is nothing special with the WA6SE.


----------



## vinyllp33

Yes, the K1K jack is being fed from a different tap on the output transformer, that is why it is able to produce 8 watts into the K1000's 120 ohm load and hence the difference in price over the LE version.

Just for fun I tried my K1000's from the 1/4in jack using the HE-6 pigtail adaptor, no dice, not nearly enough power to drive them.

Remember when Jack designed the WA5 the HE-6 and LCD-2 did not exist so if you did not need to drive K1000's the WA5LE was the logical choice. It is just a happy coincidence that now we have a couple of great new phones that are able to take advantage of this feature.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I asked Jack about installing a XLR jack the same way he installs the XLR jack in the WA5. He said there is no benefit and no change from the WA5 or the WA5LE as far as power or wattage goes. So there was no reason to have Jack change my WA5LE.
> Yes it is my understanding that the XLR jack will increase the volume level over a RCA jack in most any amp.
> But as I have said from the start that the volume level is not the main factored when powering the HE-6, its the power of the amp that makes the HE-6 really something special. I have the volume with my WA6SE but not the power of the WA5LE, so the HE-6 really is nothing special with the WA6SE.


 

 This might be the case because the WA-5LE transformer is not the same as the WA-5, it might not have the two additional taps so adding an XLR would yield no improvement.  Just so we are clear I wasn't reffering to XLR verse RCA inputs, as I do not have XLR inputs, when I said XLR, I meant the K1K output on the front which is a 4 pin XLR connection that is designed to put out 8W at 120 Ohms, where the 1/4" Jack is designed to output 1W at 120 Ohms.  So unless Jack has accidentally mistated the output capability of each port on the output of his amplifiers than there is no way that the K1K output will have the same power output capability as the 1/4" jack at the same loads.  As for the price difference between the two amps I think he uses two slightly different transformers in them to lower the cost of the WA-5LE, otherwise from his point of view there would be very little purpose to selling the two different versions, as Woo winds their own transformers winding a 2 tap transformer is easier than a 4 tap transformer, it may not be by much, but I don't know.


----------



## sillysally

All I am saying is what Jack told me.
   
  btw, Jacks comments to me are constant to what he lists the specs (for headphones "Power output >= 1.5 watt")
  for both the WA5 and LE, along with the fact that he uses the same upgrade parts. Also consider the fact that the K1000's 120 ohm load and the HE-6 is 50ohm.
  I think that the price difference is because of the speaker out taps on the WA5.
   
  However I am not disagreeing with anybody all I am saying is what Jack told me and what he posts the specs at for both the WA5 and LE.


----------



## grokit

From the Woo pdf:
   
   
   
WA5 & WA5LE:
   
640mW @32Ω
630mW @60Ω
*1000mW @120Ω*
850mW @300Ω
580mW @600Ω
   
   
WA5 only:
   
*K1000 8W @120Ω*
SPK 8W @8Ω

   
   
Seemingly the K1000 jack on the WA5 offers 8x the power @120ohms than the 1/4" jack does on either unit. That's the way the specs on the pdf appear to me at least...


----------



## Redcarmoose

I have preamp RCAs on my 5LE. It cost a little extra.


----------



## spagetka

Hello, I would like to ask somebody for little help or favour. I have a small piece of music (30s) in which I found a huge distortion at higher volume levels. I'd like to know if some of your DAC can cure that thing or it is bad recorded. I've tried several sources but without success. Thank you in advance, have a good day.


----------



## grokit

Try Jack's $10,000 Stax system. If that doesn't cure it nothing will 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seriously, you would need to tell us the specific recording and see if anyone has experience with it. And I am not sure if this is the right thread for that.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> From the Woo pdf:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  

 Yes that is how I read it also, I was talking about the specs on the sale pages. Anyway I am trying to find out why there is such big differantce between the two amps when Jack says they are the same. And yes maybe it is the transformers, that being the case the amps would not be the same but that is speculation at this point. Or has Jack changed what goes into a WA5 and LE in the past 6 months give or take. Is that why the parts upgrade has changed also.


----------



## spagetka

Patricia Barber - Modern Cool  (1998) - #4 Constantinople between 2:43 and 2:53 - flac [I can send a 30s mp3]

 WA5 (full upgrade) + EML 5U4G / 5AR4 Mullard Hammond + ECC32 Chelmer (cryo) / 6SN7GT Tung Sol BGRP (oval) / Sylvania 6SN7W (short black base) + Shuguang 300B-Z
 Benchmark DAC1 PRE (calibrated)
  K1000(stock) / K701(stock) / K240S (stock) / HD 650 + Zu mk2
  B&W 804S
   
  J. River Media Center 15 (WASAPI - Event Style)
   
  Thanks.
   
  PS: I do no think that this is amp issue.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Patricia Barber - Modern Cool  (1998) - #4 Constantinople between 2:43 and 2:53 - flac [I can send a 30s mp3]
> 
> WA5 (full upgrade) + EML 5U4G / 5AR4 Mullard Hammond + ECC32 Chelmer (cryo) / 6SN7GT Tung Sol BGRP (oval) / Sylvania 6SN7W (short black base) + Shuguang 300B-Z
> Benchmark DAC1 PRE (calibrated)
> ...


 

 Have just tried this song with my rig, the QNap NAS / Linn Akurate DS (FLAC) / WA5LE / HD800 with stock cable. Absolute clear, no distortion in any respect at all, a very nice song of Patricia Barber. You should check if this is a bad recorded CD or a distortion of the file being ripped.


----------



## Wedge

I think the amps are the same, but only the 1/4".  The K1K which has to be using a different tap on the trafos gives more power akin to the spkr lvl output at low impedance headphone levels.  So even at 50 Ohm, your still looking around 6W I believe, someone stated earlier here, I'm inclined to believe the number but it could be lower but not by much.  I spoke to Jack at the in person meet, this was was the first time we met, before I recieved, but after I ordered the amp and the first thing he did was introduce me to the K1K port on the WA-5 with his HE-6.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes that is how I read it also, I was talking about the specs on the sale pages. Anyway I am trying to find out why there is such big differantce between the two amps when Jack says they are the same. And yes maybe it is the transformers, that being the case the amps would not be the same but that is speculation at this point. Or has Jack changed what goes into a WA5 and LE in the past 6 months give or take. Is that why the parts upgrade has changed also.


----------



## dannie01

There is an interesting finding today that never tried before. I have the LCD-2 connected to the low imp. output normally and it should. But tonight I tried to connect it to the high imp. output and see what would change in sound or what ever will happen (the LCD-2 may blown away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Found that the LCD-2 sound even louder than from the low imp. output and it sound with a bit more detail in highs, I can hear more content of a song when played with the low ump. output with no audible change in mids and low section. And I'm pretty sure the WA5LE is powerful enough to drive the LCD-2, I have the volume dial up to about 11 o'clock position and it sound real good and a bit louder than my normal listening volume. Does anyone tried that in you amp as me?


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> There is an interesting finding today that never tried before. I have the LCD-2 connected to the low imp. output normally and it should. But tonight I tried to connect it to the high imp. output and see what would change in sound or what ever will happen (the LCD-2 may blown away
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes it should naturally sound louder by using the high-impedance output of the amp. Generally I found that the LCD-2 sounded better using the high gain on the amp.


----------



## Icenine2

Guy in Positive Feedback reviews WA22 and HAS THE TUBES MIXED UP!!  Check out the picture: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm


----------



## grokit

How is that possible? For some reason that seems like a bad combo to me, I'll have to try it as I am pretty sure I have those tubes although I have no idea if they are "hand picked matched pairs". Great article though, thanks for the link!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Guy in Positive Feedback reviews WA22 and HAS THE TUBES MIXED UP!!  Check out the picture: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm


 

 Wow. I can't see how he could possibly get any music out of his amp with the tubes in the wrong sockets. But apparently his amp is working because the Sophia rectifier is glowing.


----------



## Wedge

Well, the 6080 and the 6SN7 are both dual triode.  They probably share similar plate voltages internal to the amp.  Electrically should work ok, probably won't sound right.


----------



## Skylab

The plate voltages are pretty similar, but the plate current are VERY different.  You could burn up a 6SN7 really, really fast that way.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The plate voltages are pretty similar, but the plate current are VERY different.  You could burn up a 6SN7 really, really fast that way.


 


 The Pin configuration is the same and will work for a little wile then burn up the 6SN7s It has to have lower gain and higher distortion that way.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Considering the sockets themselves are labeled I can't see how anybody could make such a mistake.  Certainly inspires confidence in the review doesn't it?


----------



## Wedge

To each his own.  Someone said the reviewer liked the ED10, maybe more distortion is just what they ordered.  I do find that ED.10 sound less rich than the LCD-2.


----------



## Nova13

I have yet to receive my WA3 and I already know from reading what tubes I want to try out.  This is gonna get bad  
   
   
  As a general question - is it fair to say that, "tubes are tubes"?  Meaning that assuming I want to try out a 5998 in my wa3, do they differ in terms of quality?  Does anyone have some suggestions on where to buy tubes (I am in the United States)?  Specific info on where to get the 5998 would be appreciated too, as thats going to be my first roll, me thinks.  Also, just general tips on buying tubes and what to look out for is appeciated.
   
   
  PS:  I use Beyerdynamic dt880/600's


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> There is an interesting finding today that never tried before. I have the LCD-2 connected to the low imp. output normally and it should. But tonight I tried to connect it to the high imp. output and see what would change in sound or what ever will happen (the LCD-2 may blown away
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes and the same thing happens wit the HE-6 even that they are also 50 ohms.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Considering the sockets themselves are labeled I can't see how anybody could make such a mistake.  Certainly inspires confidence in the review doesn't it?


 

 Hopefully the photo shoot was an afterthought and/or somehow separate from the review, and since the tubes have the same pin layout even though they turned it on that way maybe it was just a mistake for the shoot, and not used that way for the review lol. If so the photographer had a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly but he blew it, quite a faux pas. I am trying that same combo out now but with the tubes in their proper position, it's actually not too bad. I've never liked those drivers that much but I am going to let this combo ride for a while.


----------



## SDMAN

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Which CD player did you order?


 
  Ayon CD-1. Balanced, tube output. Bought a real nice used one off of Audiogon. Jack was very clear that to get the full benefit of the WA22, balanced sources were a requirement. I cant argue with that. The Ayon pairs extremely well with the WA22. Im still doing all my listening with the balanced T1's. Have a set of balanced Audeze LCD-2's Ive yet to plug in. Maybe give those a try next week.


----------



## Golfnutz

That's an awesome CD player!  Are you connecting it directly to the WA22 (balanced cables)?  What tubes are using and how's the sound?


----------



## SDMAN

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> That's an awesome CD player!  Are you connecting it directly to the WA22 (balanced cables)?  What tubes are using and how's the sound?


 

 It is easily the most detailed and accurate CD player Ive ever listened to. Its hooked to the WA22 with a pair of Acoustic Zen silver reference II XLR interconnects.
   
  I had this WA22 built with 2 balanced input pairs. For $90, Woo will delete the RCA's and install a second pair of XLR inputs. Im shopping for a balanced DAC to hook up to the second pair. A good starting point looks like the Wyred 4 sound DAC-2, but Im still looking.
   
   Currently using Tung-sol 5998 power tubes, Treasure drivers and the stock rectifier that came with the amp. I have an EML mesh on order, and just bought an NOS Mullard GZ37/CV378 rectifier out of England. In going to order a matched pair of NOS Mullard ECC32 drivers very soon, and am very close to buying a couple pairs of NOS GEC A1834 power tubes from overseas.
   
  The Beyer T1's have been converted to balanced cables and the sound rivals anything Ive ever heard come out of a headphone. But this is my first headphone setup.


----------



## Xcalibur255

A quick question to all:  has anybody dabbled in re-gluing their loose tube bases or has a preferred method of doing so?  I have a few like this, but the other night one of my beloved Sylvania bad boys had its base come loose.  It was tight the last time I put them in their boxes so I'm kind of clueless how it happened, but it is now bothering me.  I've read clear nail polish is a good trick that helps the original adhesive re-bond, has anybody tried this out?  I know the tube can be left as-is (I may still do that rather than risk one of my most expensive and hard to replace tubes), but it is a shaky kind of loose that concerns me.
   
  Thanks all!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Considering the sockets themselves are labeled I can't see how anybody could make such a mistake.  Certainly inspires confidence in the review doesn't it?


 


 +1


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A quick question to all:  has anybody dabbled in re-gluing their loose tube bases or has a preferred method of doing so?  I have a few like this, but the other night one of my beloved Sylvania bad boys had its base come loose.  It was tight the last time I put them in their boxes so I'm kind of clueless how it happened, but it is now bothering me.  I've read clear nail polish is a good trick that helps the original adhesive re-bond, has anybody tried this out?  I know the tube can be left as-is (I may still do that rather than risk one of my most expensive and hard to replace tubes), but it is a shaky kind of loose that concerns me.
> 
> Thanks all!


 


 The collective wisdom over on tubes asylum seems to be that it's best to leave the bases loose.  Very few glues can stand up to the heat produced by tubes.  If you search there, you will get some recommendations on glue that will work, but as for me, I prefer just to leave them the way they are.  Just be sure only to grip the tube by the base when rolling it (something that should always be done).


----------



## Clayton SF

It's just a cool 50ºF foggy Saturday morning in San Francisco so:
   
  I decided to place an NOS RCA 5U4G tube in my WA22. A half an hour later the doesn't glow and then 10 seconds later it starts to pulse. The music leaves my amp. I turn off the 22 and pull the rectifier out. I put the 5U4G in my TC28 tube tester and it tests really BAD--like dead--there's no glow. I wiggle the 5U4G in the tester and it comes alive again. It tests strong. I pull it out of the tester and put it back in the 22--nothing. I put it back into the tester and it tests dead. I wiggle it a little bit and it comes on after a few crackling sounds from my tube tester. I throw the darn rectifier in the trash. I bought this tube new about 15 months ago. It tested good and I put it away. Now a little over year later I want to use it and it's dead. Ah--bad luck I suppose. Also I noticed that the flashing from the getter in this tube was almost nonexistent. Just a ghost of a trace. Does the flashing dissipate over time even when the tube is not in use? Maybe I should retrieve the darn tube from the trash and sandpaper the pins a bit and try it again but the pins looked clean.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It's just a cool 50ºF foggy Saturday morning in San Francisco so:
> 
> I decided to place an NOS RCA 5U4G tube in my WA22. A half an hour later the doesn't glow and then 10 seconds later it starts to pulse. The music leaves my amp. I turn off the 22 and pull the rectifier out. I put the 5U4G in my TC28 tube tester and it tests really BAD--like dead--there's no glow. I wiggle the 5U4G in the tester and it comes alive again. It tests strong. I pull it out of the tester and put it back in the 22--nothing. I put it back into the tester and it tests dead. I wiggle it a little bit and it comes on after a few crackling sounds from my tube tester. I throw the darn rectifier in the trash. I bought this tube new about 15 months ago. It tested good and I put it away. Now a little over year later I want to use it and it's dead. Ah--bad luck I suppose. Also I noticed that the flashing from the getter in this tube was almost nonexistent. Just a ghost of a trace. Does the flashing dissipate over time even when the tube is not in use? Maybe I should retrieve the darn tube from the trash and sandpaper the pins a bit and try it again but the pins looked clean.


 


  If I were Bayside right now, I'd stroll over to The Palace of Fine Arts, sit down and have lunch. Perhaps, pizza or a grilled tuna sandwich. When finished, I'd put on my M.E. hat and retrieve the body (the tube) from the trash for further examination while I sought answers.
   
  Unfortunate that it happened, but could make a good case study going forward...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The collective wisdom over on tubes asylum seems to be that it's best to leave the bases loose.  Very few glues can stand up to the heat produced by tubes.  If you search there, you will get some recommendations on glue that will work, but as for me, I prefer just to leave them the way they are.  Just be sure only to grip the tube by the base when rolling it (something that should always be done).


 

 Thanks Rob, I will just leave them be.  I made the sad mistake of twisting one (not the Sylvania thankfully) a bit before finding out that is a very bad idea.  There is always more to learn about tubes it seems.  Hopefully I didn't damage any wiring in that tube.


----------



## grokit

I checked Tubes Asylum out and the best suggestion seemed to be using acetone to re-activate the old glue if you can, if it doesn't work it will just evaporate away.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I did a bit of reading on this, and it turns out acetone is the primary agent in nail polish remover.  I guess that is where the suggestion comes from.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It's just a cool 50ºF foggy Saturday morning in San Francisco so:
> 
> I decided to place an NOS RCA 5U4G tube in my WA22. A half an hour later the doesn't glow and then 10 seconds later it starts to pulse. The music leaves my amp. I turn off the 22 and pull the rectifier out. I put the 5U4G in my TC28 tube tester and it tests really BAD--like dead--there's no glow. I wiggle the 5U4G in the tester and it comes alive again. It tests strong. I pull it out of the tester and put it back in the 22--nothing. I put it back into the tester and it tests dead. I wiggle it a little bit and it comes on after a few crackling sounds from my tube tester. I throw the darn rectifier in the trash. I bought this tube new about 15 months ago. It tested good and I put it away. Now a little over year later I want to use it and it's dead. Ah--bad luck I suppose. Also I noticed that the flashing from the getter in this tube was almost nonexistent. Just a ghost of a trace. Does the flashing dissipate over time even when the tube is not in use? Maybe I should retrieve the darn tube from the trash and sandpaper the pins a bit and try it again but the pins looked clean.


 

 You have a bad solder connection in one of the pins. If you have a soldering iron some times you can just heat the pins up and let the solder re flow or you can
  add solder to the bottom of each pin. This is common in old tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A quick question to all:  has anybody dabbled in re-gluing their loose tube bases or has a preferred method of doing so?  I have a few like this, but the other night one of my beloved Sylvania bad boys had its base come loose.  It was tight the last time I put them in their boxes so I'm kind of clueless how it happened, but it is now bothering me.  I've read clear nail polish is a good trick that helps the original adhesive re-bond, has anybody tried this out?  I know the tube can be left as-is (I may still do that rather than risk one of my most expensive and hard to replace tubes), but it is a shaky kind of loose that concerns me.
> 
> Thanks all!


 


 The glue that holds the rear view mirror to the windshield can be got in any auto supply. I also use this glue to re glue the grid cap back on 6F8G tubes if they come loose.
  It's sort of a pain first you have to apply the activator let dry then put on the glue and hold it together for awhile. It will never come loose again.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Using glue that's purpose is to cement glass products to plastic (or most anything else) makes perfect sense. Thanks for the DIY tip. Now I have to learn how to wield a soldering iron and I've it made--maybe.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I did a bit of reading on this, and it turns out acetone is the primary agent in nail polish remover.  I guess that is where the suggestion comes from.


 
   
  Don't get that confused with the recommendations for using clear nail polish as an adhesive. Anyways Glenn's suggestion sounds like a great, permanent solution if a bit of a pain, assuming that the automotive adhesive he recommends is heat-impervious which it doesn't have to be for its intended purpose. But I would tend to trust his experience in tubular matters, as well as Skylab's recommendation to leave well enough alone if possible.


----------



## Clayton SF

Which Woo be this?
  I didn't know that Woo Audio made a phono amp.
  I bet it does wonders for vinyl.
  As it is with every Woo amp I've ever bestowed mine eyes upon--it's a thing of beauty. (Alright, I am slightly biased.)
  I want one! (Gosh, even though I've never heard one.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Those look like two 0A2 regulator tubes back back there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glenn's idea sounds good too, but as I've learned over the years if there is a way to muck something up my clumsy hands will find it.  So, I'll just leave them be, but the worry that remains is if repeated trips in and out of sockets as well as trips in and out of boxes is stressing the soldering and the wires in the tube because the loose base is no longer shouldering those push/pull stresses.  I always handle a tube by the base, but when removing the tube there is still a natural separating motion between the plastic and the glass.  If the risk of failure is higher because the base is loose I'd attempt to repair them, if not then I'm not worried about the condition itself.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks for the info, Clayton. Not yet up-dated in Jack's website, does anyone knows how would this beauty little tank cost? 
  
  It's so beautiful, I'm now wondering to build a cheapy vinyl system for this beauty.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Which Woo be this?
> I didn't know that Woo Audio made a phono amp.
> I bet it does wonders for vinyl.
> As it is with every Woo amp I've ever bestowed mine eyes upon--it's a thing of beauty. (Alright, I am slightly biased.)
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

Someone's selling their WA22, black w/all XLR inputs on Audiogon http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1308704737&/Woo-WA22-  Who's is that?


----------



## brasewel

Sigh...I feel like jumping on that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'm not


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I'm now wondering to build a cheapy vinyl system for this beauty.


 


  Cheap vinyl.  Hah!  Good one.  I wish cheap and vinyl (and great sound) could be used in the same sentence together.


----------



## Wedge

Why not? hehe.  Then you could join the large group that are the Woo Audio Owners officially.
  Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Sigh...I feel like jumping on that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Nova13

My tracking number for my WA3 came today, it should ship tomorrow and i'll have it soon  
   
  My last post here got overlooked, and I'd like it answered, so here it comes again:
   
   
   
_I have yet to receive my WA3 and I already know from reading what tubes I want to try out.  This is gonna get bad  _

   

   

_As a general question - is it fair to say that, "tubes are tubes"?  Meaning that assuming I want to try out a 5998 in my wa3, do they differ in terms of quality?  Does anyone have some suggestions on where to buy tubes (I am in the United States)?  Specific info on where to get the 5998 would be appreciated too, as thats going to be my first roll, me thinks.  Also, just general tips on buying tubes and what to look out for is appeciated._

   

   

_PS:  I use Beyerdynamic dt880/600's _


----------



## Wedge

5998s are all made by Tung-Sol in this case if you want a 5998 than they are all pretty much the same.  Tubes are Tubes is generally not a true statement.  I use these in my WA-22 on occasion but these are generally, at least in the WA-22 interchangeable with 6080 and 7236.  I think the 5998 give a bit more bass than the 7236, but I like mid and treble of the 7236 just a little bit better.  So I will use either one.  I use Mullard ECC 32 for my drive tube, which IMO make up for the less bass that the 7236 have.  As has been pointed out to me in another thread somewhere, I am a bit of a Mullard and Tung-Sol snob.


----------



## Nova13

Thanks Wedge.  I see you are stateside too - where do you purchase your tubes?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Which Woo be this?
> I didn't know that Woo Audio made a phono amp.
> I bet it does wonders for vinyl.
> As it is with every Woo amp I've ever bestowed mine eyes upon--it's a thing of beauty. (Alright, I am slightly biased.)
> ...


 



 Damn it, Clayton!  I want to get a new turntable and a proper phono pre-amp.  Why must you tempt me?!  I was doing so well with saving my money and resisting the urge to buy tube-related stuff.


----------



## Wedge

All over the place!  I have a friend that is a tube seller, Paul Lindemann, well I never met him in person but we converse quite often.  He can be found on Audiogon, and Ebay.  Or you can email him chowbeardog@sbcglobal.net, he deals mostly in drive tubes.  Tube World is an expensive but an honest place to buy hi-end tubes from.  Radio Electric Supply seems to be quite good with reasonable pricing, www.vacuumtubes.net.  Audiogon I think has more honest people on it, EBay is another place (generally has more dishonest people than any of the other places).  I have been had twice on eBay, but it happens.  Other than that, I've heard Brent Jesse is pretty good.  Tube Depot is another place to buy tubes form also pricey, but you get what you are paying for IMO.  
  
  Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Thanks Wedge.  I see you are stateside too - where do you purchase your tubes?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





theaudiodude said:


> Damn it, Clayton!  I want to get a new turntable and a proper phono pre-amp.  Why must you tempt me?!  I was doing so well with saving my money and resisting the urge to buy tube-related stuff.


 

 Calm down. Put your credit card down and step away from the Woo. Step away from the Woo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That phono amp is not on his website. I came across it searching for all things Woo. Perhaps it's just a prototype of some sort or other.


----------



## Skylab

Isn't it possible that phono pre is an old product?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ That is possibly the case. The "WOOAUDIO" logo on the chassis is "old style." And I have never seen, heard, or read any reviews of a phono amp from Jack. I've also seen pictures of a Woo DAC with Jack standing next to it so who knows what's being worked on in the wings--or what had been worked on....


----------



## Xcalibur255

The DAC is a future product according to things that have been said elsewhere, but I don't think Jack has announced anything yet.


----------



## Clayton SF

Then I hope the phono amp is also a future product. It would seem a natural progression to cover all "tube bases." If a tube amp were in the works at Woo Audio I'd sign up for the purchase of one. (Eeek! after my tax refund that is.)


----------



## grokit

^ I don't think so. If you go to the "About Us" tab at the Woo site and click on the "See more pictures here" link that's right above the "_Enjoy browsing our past offers..." _statement on that page (which is right above a long page of photos of past offerings), you will find the posted phono stage photo about 2/3 down that page. There are current offerings there as well on that page though so Woo knows.


----------



## PanamaRed

In the last week and a half or so I pulled the trigger on the following items:
   
  Woo Audio WA22
  W4S DAC-2
  Signal Cable Balanced Silver Reference interconnects
  LCD-2 with ALO balanced silver/copper XLR
   
  and now.. Senn HD800
   
  I wanted to ask your sage advice once more as to what cables I should get for the HD800's. I listen mostly to the dead, blues, and blues/rock.
   
  Thanks once again for all your advice.


----------



## Skylab

I like the Moon Audio Blue Dragon for the HD800. Stay away from silver with the HD800. They're bright enough as it is.


----------



## PanamaRed

Thanks skylab.


----------



## musicman59

I agree with Skylab. Stay away of silver or SPC cables for the HD800. I have the DHC Complement in mine and love them. The only issues are that it is very heavy and expensive (about $800). For less than half you can get the Zeus Quad22 from Aphroditecu29.com and it also weights a fraction of the Complement and the sound is basically the same. I compared both and really could not make much of a difference. Both are OCC. The Zeus is based on the WireWorld used in their Eclipse 6 interconnect. I have it in my T1, HE-6 and DX1000 and love it.


----------



## bergnerm

Congrats on a great setup... and now, the looooooonnnnngggggg wait (not that long, actually, it just seems like it) 

  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> In the last week and a half or so I pulled the trigger on the following items:
> 
> Woo Audio WA22
> W4S DAC-2
> ...


----------



## the_equalizer

I've been listening constantly to my WA2 for the last few days and I'm really liking it. I'm particularly loving the dynamics of the amp.
   
  Today I put in the 7236 power tubes that I acquired from Jack along with the amp and found them really outstanding, I listened to most of Wagner's "Tristan und Isolde" and found the sound so vivid and fatigue free!!
   
  Are there any other power tubes you recommend for this baby that can be had for a reasonable amount? I've read some good comments about the Russian 6AS7 type tubes around the net.
   
  A couple pics...
   

   

   
  cheers!


----------



## dannie01

Nice pics again, the_equalizer. The WA2 looks wonderful, hope you enjoy your combo, cheers.

  
  Quote: 





the_equalizer said:


> I've been listening constantly to my WA2 for the last few days and I'm really liking it. I'm particularly loving the dynamics of the amp.
> 
> Today I put in the 7236 power tubes that I acquired from Jack along with the amp and found them really outstanding, I listened to most of Wagner's "Tristan und Isolde" and found the sound so vivid and fatigue free!!
> 
> ...


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





panamared said:


> In the last week and a half or so I pulled the trigger on the following items:
> 
> Woo Audio WA22
> W4S DAC-2
> ...


 

 Congrats!  Exactlly my rig! (except interconnects) you will love it!


----------



## Icenine2

I need suggestions for sub $200 RCA interconnects.  Cardas Crosslink w/Eichmann bullets, Moon Audio Black or Blue Dragon, Signal Cable?  I wanted New Nordost Red Dawn (way to expensive).  Thanks!


----------



## dannie01

Have a new pair of TS BGRP for British Military (without Tung Sol mark in the tube base but structure look exactly the same, at least in my eyes) plugged in the WA5LE, sound as great as the one for US Army with a Tung Sol marked.
   
  The one in the left is for British Military and the right one is for the US Army with Tung Sol marked that I currently useing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Have a new pair of TS BGRP for British Military (without Tung Sol mark in the tube base but structure look exactly the same, at least in my eyes) plugged in the WA5LE, sound as great as the one for US Army with a Tung Sol marked.
> 
> The one in the left is for British Military and the right one is for the US Army with Tung Sol marked that I currently useing.


 


  Well, that's certainly a fine way for me to start the day - admiring a new pair of TS BGRP's at breakfast. Beautifully acquired, dannie01.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks my friend.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, that's certainly a fine way for me to start the day - admiring a new pair of TS BGRP's at breakfast. Beautifully acquired, dannie01.


----------



## the_equalizer

Lovely looking tubes, indeed. Congratulations Dannie!


----------



## dannie01

Thanks buddy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  Quote: 





the_equalizer said:


> Lovely looking tubes, indeed. Congratulations Dannie!


----------



## Icenine2

My EML 5U4G died.  Put the stock tube in and everything works fine.  Spoke w/George and after questioning me about the tube (light grey stripes) he says my voltage it too high in the amp.  I'm going to go by a volt meter and check it out.  Bummer.  Mailing tube back for replacement but not sure what it will cost ultimately based on warranty.


----------



## Icenine2

*Wow.  George at TubesUSA.com is the best!  *He called me back in five minutes and will replace the tube as soon as he takes gets his new shipment.  He's also going to talk with Jack about the amp to make sure what capacitor (did I get that right?) he's using.
   
  In the meantime I'm going to check my volts out of the wall to make sure all is well.


----------



## PanamaRed

Thanks musicman and skylab. Now to carefully study this forum's notes on tube rolling (and prepare for that expense  )


----------



## vinyllp33

Did you order your EML through Jack or directly from TubesUSA?

It seems like the lifespan on these tubes isn't all that long; And it is not just with Woo but other pieces as well.

Please keep us posted, it is unfortunate because I have not found another 5U4G, or any other rectifier for that matter, that sounds this good; But in this application a tube of this type should last many, many years.


----------



## Icenine2

I ordered through George at TubesUSA.  I have the stock 5U in right now and it does not sound anywhere near the same.


----------



## Icenine2

I ordered a Cavalli Liquid Fire the other day!  Tube/hybrid and really cool looking too.   I should have it sometime in late May early June.  I'd read good things on the amp here and there since CanJam and have been totally intrigued.  I phoned the 32 Ohm guys because they had listened to it.  Lots of good response from them.  The amps are priced at $2750 for the first run then go up to the regular price after that.  It will be interesting.  Now I'll need a pair of LCD2's to go with that as well!  Supposed to be a great pair.


----------



## shipsupt

Another option in that price range, DiMarzio M-Path.  I like the quality construction.  I get mine at TTVJ.  I do not have extensive experience with different calbes, just offering up another for you to consider.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I need suggestions for sub $200 RCA interconnects.  Cardas Crosslink w/Eichmann bullets, Moon Audio Black or Blue Dragon, Signal Cable?  I wanted New Nordost Red Dawn (way to expensive).  Thanks!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> *Wow.  George at TubesUSA.com is the best!  *He called me back in five minutes and will replace the tube as soon as he takes gets his new shipment.  He's also going to talk with Jack about the amp to make sure what capacitor (did I get that right?) he's using.
> 
> In the meantime I'm going to check my volts out of the wall to make sure all is well.


 

 X2 on George, I'm glad I ordered from him now and will continue to do so. I just got my replacement EML 5U4G from him yesterday, as mine had blown after just 2-300 hours. I had complained earlier about his $38 mailing charge after I made the purchase, but now I am realizing that is probably a special rate for the EMLs because he always has to ship them out twice lol; he didn't charge me anything to send the replacement. I will be real careful with this one, I sure hope it lasts longer.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I blew my first 2 EML 5U4G rectifiers.  I've had the 3rd one for about 6 months now and all is good (knock on wood).  Seems to be some quality control issues


----------



## Wedge

I've been told that they have either redesigned them or are using better materials in the construction of it.
  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I blew my first 2 EML 5U4G rectifiers.  I've had the 3rd one for about 6 months now and all is good (knock on wood).  Seems to be some quality control issues


----------



## Icenine2

Double me up on that as well.  I was complaining about shipping too.  Now it really doesn't matter.  I was super careful with the old one but will continue to do so.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2 on George, I'm glad I ordered from him now and will continue to do so. I just got my replacement EML 5U4G from him yesterday, as mine had blown after just 2-300 hours. I had complained earlier about his $38 mailing charge after I made the purchase, but now I am realizing that is probably a special rate for the EMLs because he always has to ship them out twice lol; he didn't charge me anything to send the replacement. I will be real careful with this one, I sure hope it lasts longer.


----------



## Icenine2

This is what Jack wrote back about the blown EML
   
  The WA22 has a soft start (delay circuit) and it should not cause any compatible issue with the EML 5U4G. In the past, I discussed this issue with the manufacturer and they have made considerable change to make the tube more robust. I don't think you will have trouble having it replaced.

 Thanks,
 Jack


----------



## Silent One

Great exchange of information to make sure we're all up to date with each other's EML experience (very helpful). Though anything can happen at anytime in this hobby, I'm now feeling less concerned after the latest comment from Icenine2. My EML came from the _corrected_ December shipment TubesUSA received. Now with 291 hours of pleasure...
   
  Both George; Jack, deserve praise for how they conduct their operations. About George: we had a few exchanges leading up to the eventual order and status of shipment. Nuthin' unusual about that from a proprietor. Then after I received my EML glass, he sent a follow-up email to ensure my satisfaction.
   
_Say what?! _He easily won me over in good times and I will stand by him in troubled times giving him the benefit of the doubt. And repeat business...


----------



## baka1969

I'll be getting a WA2 on loan so I can do a direct comparison with my WA6SE. I'll do a full writeup of my findings after I've had the chance to spend some time together with the both of them. It should be fun.


----------



## vinyllp33

x 2

George and Jack are both stand-up guys.

Also running the "corrected" versions, no issues thus far other than great sound!


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> I'll be getting a WA2 on loan so I can do a direct comparison with my WA6SE. I'll do a full writeup of my findings after I've had the chance to spend some time together with the both of them. It should be fun.


 


  I'm certainly looking forward to this!


----------



## Icenine2

I believe mine was the corrected glass according to description of those.  I did get mine in December as well.  I must admit actual surprise at first that no sound came from the amp and indeed it was the EML.
   
  I fully admit I've become a tube snob.  The stock tube sounds OK but is lacking compared to the EML.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great exchange of information to make sure we're all up to date with each other's EML experience (very helpful). Though anything can happen at anytime in this hobby, I'm now feeling less concerned after the latest comment from Icenine2. My EML came from the _corrected_ December shipment TubesUSA received. Now with 291 hours of pleasure...
> 
> Both George; Jack, deserve praise for how they conduct their operations. About George: we had a few exchanges leading up to the eventual order and status of shipment. Nuthin' unusual about that from a proprietor. Then after I received my EML glass, he sent a follow-up email to ensure my satisfaction.
> 
> _Say what?! _He easily won me over in good times and I will stand by him in troubled times giving him the benefit of the doubt. And repeat business...


----------



## vinyllp33

That is my concern as well, it seems like the newer versions are not immune to premature failures, though there is no denying the positive impact in the sonic department.


----------



## MacedonianHero

the_equalizer said:


> I'm certainly looking forward to this!




x2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I agree with Skylab. Stay away of silver or SPC cables for the HD800. I have the DHC Complement in mine and love them. The only issues are that it is very heavy and expensive (about $800). For less than half you can get the Zeus Quad22 from Aphroditecu29.com and it also weights a fraction of the Complement and the sound is basically the same. I compared both and really could not make much of a difference. Both are OCC. The Zeus is based on the WireWorld used in their Eclipse 6 interconnect. I have it in my T1, HE-6 and DX1000 and love it.


 


   
   
  On 9 July 2011, I will be celebrating the first year anniversary of my WA6 SE. In preparation for the event, I just ordered: A spec'd out Denon AH-D7000 + Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - Wireworld Silver XLR (Balanced)
   
  The next _raised_ glass of Veuve Clicquot will be in your direction Musicman59. Thanks for your insights. Sure, it's April. But I need time for burn-in, no?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On 9 July 2011, I will be celebrating the first year anniversary of my WA6 SE. In preparation for the event, I just ordered: A spec'd out Denon AH-D7000 + Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - Wireworld Silver XLR (Balanced)
> 
> The next _raised_ glass of Veuve Clicquot will be in your direction Musicman59. Thanks for your insights. Sure, it's April. But I need time for burn-in, no?


 


 How about a party to celebrate the anniversary? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do love the Veuve Clicqot but my favorite Dom Pérignon would always better.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On 9 July 2011, I will be celebrating the first year anniversary of my WA6 SE. In preparation for the event, I just ordered: A spec'd out Denon AH-D7000 + Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - Wireworld Silver XLR (Balanced)
> 
> The next _raised_ glass of Veuve Clicquot will be in your direction Musicman59. Thanks for your insights. Sure, it's April. But I need time for burn-in, no?


 

 I love Veuve Clicquot (and my wife too)!! Let  me know when and I will crack a bottle open in your honor too. 
  I talked to Robert tonight and told me about your choice. You are going to be very happy with the combo. Congrats!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> How about a party to celebrate the anniversary?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I like him too! Whenever I get to HK, we'll have to share some French bubbly... and tea. Just not mixed together!


----------



## dark1evil2

hi i just received woo 3+ sound great with dt990 600ohm  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  and i have a  question
   
  is the asus xonar st a good dac for woo 3+?


----------



## sillysally

Yes Jack seems to build in a "soft start" with these amp. One thing to keep in mind is that if you turn off your Woo and don't let it cool down before restarting your Woo the "soft start" will not work.
  imo its very important to make sure your Woo is at room temperature before restarting it. Not only will a "hard start" shorten your Rectifier life but the rest of your tubes also.


----------



## Wedge

Grats on your newly acquired Woo amp, I have an Asus Xonar in my pc as well, but I don't use it anymore.  I prefer to use my Yulong D100, I find that internal sound cards can often have an annoying noise content to them, from all the digital signals getting clocked all over the place.  
  
  Quote: 





dark1evil2 said:


> hi i just received woo 3+ sound great with dt990 600ohm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I love Veuve Clicquot (and my wife too)!! Let  me know when and I will crack a bottle open in your honor too.
> I talked to Robert tonight and told me about your choice. You are going to be very happy with the combo. Congrats!


 


  Looking back over the last 96 hours, _I might as well have been drinking_. I went from getting the D5000 re-cabled. To getting the LCD-2. To getting the D7000 re-cabled. I don't think my tea has been tampered with... (he grins broadly).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes Jack seems to build in a "soft start" with these amp. One thing to keep in mind is that if you turn off your Woo and don't let it cool down before restarting your Woo the "soft start" will not work.
> imo its very important to make sure your Woo is at room temperature before restarting it. Not only will a "hard start" shorten your Rectifier life but the rest of your tubes also.


 

 Since the 6EW7's ran so hot in my WA6 SE, my own rule-of-thumb was 1 hour. Even though it runs so much cooler now with 6SN7's in place, I still like observing 1 hour before restart.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I like him too! Whenever I get to HK, we'll have to share some French bubbly... and tea. Just not mixed together!


 

 No problem my friend. you are always welcom to viviting HK, maybe with jc in the same time, I still have some bottles of vintage 2000 in my Euro Cave to share with my buddies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just for interesting information, the Mainlander Chinese are mixing the very good single malt wishky with green tea that I could not believe how much they spend in this way and waste the good alcohol.


----------



## dannie01

Oops, thanks for the important hint, ss. I have restarting the WA5LE last night to swap the 6SN7 when it's still hot...............................sigh. I'll remeber that next time before swapping some tubes.

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes Jack seems to build in a "soft start" with these amp. One thing to keep in mind is that if you turn off your Woo and don't let it cool down before restarting your Woo the "soft start" will not work.
> imo its very important to make sure your Woo is at room temperature before restarting it. Not only will a "hard start" shorten your Rectifier life but the rest of your tubes also.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No problem my friend. you are always welcom to viviting HK, maybe with jc in the same time, I still have some bottles of vintage 2000 in my Euro Cave to share with my buddies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I'm sure the origins of many trends can quite amusing. I prefer Champagne and wine... _and in moderation_. A couple of months back, I viewed one of your albums - you and your mate took some amazing photographs.


----------



## grokit

Green tea goes with single-malt huh? Hmm...


----------



## dannie01

Other than that, the stock of  each vintage fine wine (top five in the world) in China are much more than all these vineyards can produce in current year, believe it or not?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Search in google and you'll find how they spend their money and how much FAKE things over there,
   
  Tha'ts enough, I WOULD NOT DERAIL MY OWN THREAD.


----------



## Observer

I'm sure in China and Hong Kong, the recent market demand for Lafite and even Carrudes (what are they thinking!?!?) has encouraged many creative "options".


----------



## dannie01

Actually the demand is in Mainlander in China because too many people are too rich there for these kind of pemium products and so, like what you said, "encouraged many creative options".

  
  Quote: 





observer said:


> I'm sure in China and Hong Kong, the recent market demand for Lafite and even Carrudes (what are they thinking!?!?) has encouraged many creative "options".


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Actually the demand is in Mainlander in China because too many people are too rich there for these kind of pemium products and so, like what you said, "encouraged many creative options".


 

 Yes, I visit my friends couple years ago in Shanghai and I have drank more high end wines and cognac than I can ever dream I can afford them.  That bubbly hangover is a major pain in the behind...much worst than Louis XIII...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No problem my friend. you are always welcom to viviting HK, maybe with jc in the same time, I still have some bottles of vintage 2000 in my Euro Cave to share with my buddies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Too bad, no trip planned to HK to Asia area this year.  Most business trip will be in Germany...


----------



## dannie01

Hey John, how do you doing my friend?
   
  That's correct, the hangover is killing and you know why? The most favorite whisky, Chevis 12 yrs, one night consumption of this whisky in China would over the whole year that they can produce. Guess why you have painful hangover after that kind of whisky and cognac if it is not from your friend who definately know where to find something genuine in China.
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, I visit my friends couple years ago in Shanghai and I have drank more high end wines and cognac than I can ever dream I can afford them.  That bubbly hangover is a major pain in the behind...much worst than Louis XIII...


 


  
  Ar..........................too bad.


  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Too bad, no trip planned to HK to Asia area this year.  Most business trip will be in Germany...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey John, how do you doing my friend?
> 
> That's correct, the hangover is killing and you know why? The most favorite whisky, Chevis 12 yrs, one night consumption of this whisky in China would over the whole year that they can produce. Guess why you have painful hangover after that kind of whisky and cognac if it is not from your friend who definately know where to find something genuine in China.
> 
> ...


 


   Doing very well, Thanks.  Just extremely busy at work and getting ready to move in couple weeks. 
   
  Back on the Woo topic, I like the Brimar CV1988 more than TS BGRP with LCD-2.  The lush and warm fermale vocal is really great, I need to get a hold of ECC 32 to give it a try.


----------



## dannie01

Yes Sir, I love the Brimar too but with no chance to try in WA5LE. The TS CV1988 is a bit brighter that is very nice match with the little dark background LCD-2, it provide more detail which the LCD-2 could perform. And the ordinary TS BGRP is well match with HD800, I love these 2 combo for these cans very much lately .
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Back on the Woo topic, I like the Brimar CV1988 more than TS BGRP with LCD-2.  The lush and warm fermale vocal is really great, I need to get a hold of ECC 32 to give it a try.


----------



## jc9394

Sad night tonight, the 22 and PWD go back to original box waiting to move to new home. Going be few weeks without 22, the HA160/D7000 will get some play time for now.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Absence makes the heart grow fonder. You'll be in for a real treat after you unbox your 22 once again. Old becomes new again!
   
  By the way, I've noticed that the various upgrades that used to be available for the WA2 are no longer listed on Jack's website.  When were these options discontinued?


----------



## Silent One

Can't sleep! It's "Zero-dark-thirty..." and I can't sleep. Awaiting a new shipment has me in a heightened state. _I don't even have a tracking number! _
  Maybe I'll dust off my Woo (twice done already, it's black!), straighten up the room a bit (it's meticulous) and try going to bed quietly over the next
  two weeks...


----------



## bergnerm

Looks like that's the case with a number of his mid- to lower-end amps... no Blackgate cap upgrade (premium parts package), teflon tube sockets, etc. They must have been discontinued within the past couple of weeks. Wonder why?
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Absence makes the heart grow fonder. You'll be in for a real treat after you unbox your 22 once again. Old becomes new again!
> 
> By the way, I've noticed that the various upgrades that used to be available for the WA2 are no longer listed on Jack's website.  When were these options discontinued?


----------



## the_equalizer

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can't sleep! It's "Zero-dark-thirty..." and I can't sleep. Awaiting a new shipment has me in a heightened state. _I don't even have a tracking number! _
> Maybe I'll dust off my Woo (twice done already, it's black!), straighten up the room a bit (it's meticulous) and try going to bed quietly over the next
> two weeks...


 

 Oh, the agony of the wait!  I also find it somewhat sleep depriving... Music or a good book with a glass of single malt scotch help alleviate it for me 
   
  I hope your wait is a short one! Just think that the reward for it is a nice new toy...
   
  cheers!


----------



## musicman59

I crossed emails with Jack about a mod I was wanting for my WA5-LE. He basically said it would be to costly so it woul dbe better to wait for the new amp coming out. That leads me to believe that the new amp will be the new top of the line passing over the WA5/WA5-LE.
   
  He said he thinks will be shown at the upcoming RMAF/Canjam in October.


----------



## Icenine2

MM,
   
  What is the word on the new amp?  Balanced maybe?  Which tubes?


----------



## Clayton SF

If he's coming out with a new high-end amp in October (perhaps) then I wonder which of his current amps he'll place out of production, if any. I guess the only amp that I'm familiar with that's gone is the WA4. And of course there's the phono amp which I had never known about until I did a search. Whatever is Woo Up To?
   
  Do yo think that he'll do an amp based on the 2A3? I've seen and read about those tubes but have never heard one (or two or three).
   
  What's your guess on what Woo Audio's next amp will be?


----------



## musicman59

I really have no idea. He was pretty secretive about it. I really hope for a high power balanced amp.


----------



## vinyllp33

What mods were you looking for Jack to do to your WA5LE?


----------



## Icenine2

All that BlackGate stuff as I recall is in short/limited supply and once it's gone that is it.


----------



## grokit

A WA5 with balanced inputs would be badass!


----------



## Silent One

If Jack did decide on a 2A3 design, then you could tell it good-bye! A walk-off homer by Woo Audio, as he trots around third base with hundreds of fans and customers waiting to greet him at home plate.
   
  To employ a great sounding tube that's affordable and _available _would be nothing short of a winning run in this hobby.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> What mods were you looking for Jack to do to your WA5LE?


 


  +2


----------



## musicman59

I was wanting to basically converted in a WA5 without the speakers output in order to add a higher watts headphones output for the HE-6.

My WA5-LE already has all the electronic upgrades and tubes plus all the inputs are WBT NextGen and all the internal wiring is OCC Neotech.


----------



## vinyllp33

I can't wait to see what Jack has up his sleeve, hopefully we will get some more info before October.
   
  Yes, many consider the 2A3 as one of the best sounding tubes for headphone use, though he may have to use a couple in parallel to get the desired output power but I see no problems there.
   
  And they are for certain much, much less than a nice pair of 300B's


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





grokit said:


> A WA5 with balanced inputs would be badass!


 

 X2. It would as they say... 'Totally own'.


----------



## Wedge

I'm not holding my breath for a 2A3 design.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I can't wait to see what Jack has up his sleeve, hopefully we will get some more info before October.
> 
> Yes, many consider the 2A3 as one of the best sounding tubes for headphone use, though he may have to use a couple in parallel to get the desired output power but I see no problems there.
> 
> And they are for certain much, much less than a nice pair of 300B's


----------



## vinyllp33

Maybe an 845 tube based design, now that would put out some serious power!


----------



## Wedge

I don't think that Jack and his father are about power.
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Maybe an 845 tube based design, now that would put out some serious power!


----------



## MacedonianHero

wedge said:


> I don't think that Jack and his father are about power.




They may not be...but orthos are.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> All that BlackGate stuff as I recall is in short/limited supply and once it's gone that is it.


 


  This would seem the most logical reason.  What I do not understand, however, is the complete elimination of the upgrade option itself.  There are many other fine choices in caps besides Blackgate.  He could still offer an upgrade option using Mundorf, Auricap, V-Cap or any number of other choices.  The WA22 never had an upgrade package option so perhaps Jack simply wants to move away from the whole idea as well?


----------



## grokit

I seem to recall upgrade options for the WA22, I think they come and go.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I crossed emails with Jack about a mod I was wanting for my WA5-LE. He basically said it would be to costly so it woul dbe better to wait for the new amp coming out. That leads me to believe that the new amp will be the new top of the line passing over the WA5/WA5-LE.
> 
> He said he thinks will be shown at the upcoming RMAF/Canjam in October.


 

 What kind of a mod? Was it about the XLR?
  Did Jack ever respond to why without the WE300B's it is better to use the high imp jack?
   
  It seems that the WA5LE is good for the HE-6 but the only way I know to really bring the HE-6 to its full potential is with the original WE300B's, along with the TSRP's and EML 5U4G's.
  The TSRP's brings the low lows and high highs to the table, the EML 5U4G's brings a very neutral, fast and clear sound along with a nice sound-stage, the WE300B's are a very strong power tubes that brings with it very strong high to low mids. imo because of the great mids and power of the WE300B's that really brings out the mids so the mids don't get over whelmed by the bass attack there by giving a very realistic 3D image and helps to make the high, highs simply magnificent.
  I should add that using the high imp jack with my setup actually degrades to performance of the HE-6.
   
  The real plus with these tubes is this combo really is good with any type of music and headphones. I already had this setup before I got the HE-6's so I have had no reason to do any tube rolling for about a year and felt a need to upgrade my WA5LE.


----------



## musicman59

I was wanting to have an extra headphone output with more power like the one for the K1000 in the WA5 but I am not interested in the speakers output.
  No he never got back to me about why they sounded better out of the high impedance output.
  With most of the 6SN7 I have the WA5-LE powers the HE-6 fine out of the high impedance output specially when I use the Sylvania 6SN7WGT and the KenRad BG VT231. The strange this is when I use either of my two pairs of Mullard ECC32 it distorts but these tubes seam more powerful with all the dynamic headphones I have.
   
  Not a big deal anymore since I am using a speaker amp to power the HE-6 now and they sound incredible.


----------



## Icenine2

I'd buy your theory about moving away from the upgrade deal.  All the break-in required for those caps is lengthy.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> It seems that the WA5LE is good for the HE-6 but the only way I know to really bring the HE-6 to its full potential is with the original WE300B's, along with the TSRP's and EML 5U4G's.
> The TSRP's brings the low lows and high highs to the table, the EML 5U4G's brings a very neutral, fast and clear sound along with a nice sound-stage, the WE300B's are a very strong power tubes that brings with it very strong high to low mids. imo because of the great mids and power of the WE300B's that really brings out the mids so the mids don't get over whelmed by the bass attack there by giving a very realistic 3D image and helps to make the high, highs simply magnificent.
> I should add that using the high imp jack with my setup actually degrades to performance of the HE-6.
> 
> The real plus with these tubes is this combo really is good with any type of music and headphones. I already had this setup before I got the HE-6's so I have had no reason to do any tube rolling for about a year and felt a need to upgrade my WA5LE.


 

 I don't have HE-6 to try with WA5LE. With LCD-2, the amp is powerful enough with the your tubes combo except the 300B in EAT, they sound really wonderful.


----------



## Icenine2

What about a Woo w/a separate SS PSU?  No stone throwing here!


----------



## AndrewG

would you recommend WA5LE single ended or the woo amp balanced?


----------



## grokit

Gratuitous WA22 tube photo of the combo featured in the recent Positive Feedback review. I just received my replacement EML 5U4G in from George and I actually prefer the Sophia Princess better through my LCD-2; it sounds more neutral to me.
   

   
   
  It's a very good combo although I haven't tried arranging it their way lol:
   

   
  They have seemingly addressed their mistake by deleting the worst offenders and putting in a "correct" photo, but they left this one in


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I don't have HE-6 to try with WA5LE. With LCD-2, the amp is powerful enough with the your tubes combo except the 300B in EAT, they sound really wonderful.


 



 The biggest reason why I bring up the WE300B is because I can't figure out why my HE6's sound much better using the low imp jack on my WA5LE, as they really should. Others say that they think the high imp jack with the HE6 sounds better.
  Yes setting my alps rk50 pot at 12:00 gives me all the volume/power i would ever need for the HE6's, and yes I like my audio loud when viewing a Blu Ray movie or Rock music.
  I don't own the LCD2's but I am sure your WA5LE and tube combo can really bring out the best of your LCD2's. Setup properly are WA5LE's imo can really bring out the best that are orthos can give.


----------



## dannie01

I am always jealous about your WE300Bs that I can never will have, ss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Already asked this in the ECC32 tube addicts thread and would like to post again here to look for some advise.

_*"I am about to order a pair of Mullard ECC32 brown base for the WA5LE but that will cost an arm. So I'm wondering how much the ECC32 would sound better than the Tung Sol 6SN7 RPBG that I currently use, does any one can have more impression between these two kind of tubes, thanks."

  *_
_*



*_
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> The biggest reason why I bring up the WE300B is because I can't figure out why my HE6's sound much better using the low imp jack on my WA5LE, as they really should. Others say that they think the high imp jack with the HE6 sounds better.
> Yes setting my alps rk50 pot at 12:00 gives me all the volume/power i would ever need for the HE6's, and yes I like my audio loud when viewing a Blu Ray movie or Rock music.
> I don't own the LCD2's but I am sure your WA5LE and tube combo can really bring out the best of your LCD2's. Setup properly are WA5LE's imo can really bring out the best that are orthos can give.


----------



## musicman59

I own both and personally prefer the ECC32 by a mile....
  I actually like my Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base/chrome top better than the TS RP/BG but that could be just my taste in sound but the ECC32 are the best of all IMO.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks for answering in both threads, musicman. I also have a pair of Sylvania Chrome Top short bottle but black base still running in in the WA5LE, I found it sound mild than the TS RPBG but very nice and I do like how it sound in classical music. Will pull the trigger on the ECC32 but my wallet will be bleeding.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I own both and personally prefer the ECC32 by a mile....
> I actually like my Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base/chrome top better than the TS RP/BG but that could be just my taste in sound but the ECC32 are the best of all IMO.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for answering in both threads, musicman. I also have a pair of Sylvania Chrome Top short bottle but black base still running in in the WA5LE, I found it sound mild than the TS RPBG but very nice and I do like how it sound in classical music. Will pull the trigger on the ECC32 but my wallet will be bleeding.


 
   
  Please do let me know how it sounds with LCD-2?  I'm thinking to get a pair too...


----------



## Icenine2

G,
   
  Did you write the review?  I wonder who the guy is who wrote the WA22 review for 6Moons?  He also reviewed the Woo WES in Positive Feedback which makes me want to give it a listen.  Only a year ago I was just going to buy a new SS amp to replace my HeadRoom Home.  Then I checked out MusicMan's Black WA5LE and.................changed my priorities.  Now I've got the WA22, a Cavalli Liquid Fire on order and still have a serious jones for a WA5LE!
   
  I hope I get my replacement EML soon.  The stock Shuguang is OK but just doesn't cut it.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Gratuitous WA22 tube photo of the combo featured in the recent Positive Feedback review. I just received my replacement EML 5U4G in from George and I actually prefer the Sophia Princess better through my LCD-2; it sounds more neutral to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Caphead78

Is there any more info about the headphones Jack mentioned in the Positive Feedback interview? Any guesses on whether they'll be dynamic, ortho, or stat?


----------



## dannie01

Will do, can't resist the non stop tempting of these babies and was pull the trigger. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But assume will be arrived my office while I'm on trip. Give me 2 weeks, will let you know how it sound in the WA5LE.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please do let me know how it sounds with LCD-2?  I'm thinking to get a pair too...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please do let me know how it sounds with LCD-2?  I'm thinking to get a pair too...


 


   
   I know the LCD-2 are more efficient than the HE-6 and both 50 ohms. Im my case with the HE-6 all my 6SN7 work very good and actually Jude loved the sound of them using the Sylvania 6SN7WGT BB/CT (read his thread about the Lyr) but for some reason looks like my both pair of ECC32 do not had the right power for the HE-6 and distort at about 10 O'clock in the volume but the ECC32 with any other of my headphones seems to have more power than the 6SN7 collection. I do not undrestand why but I know that if I want to liesten to the HE-6 with my WA5-LE I will use the Sylvania 6SN7WGT or my TCA 5692 Red Base. They sound great with those two and when I am using my HD800, T1, DX1000, D7000 or Edition 9 the Mullard ECC32are the way to go.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks you for answering the question, musicman. I hope they will sound great with my headphones, too.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I know the LCD-2 are more efficient than the HE-6 and both 50 ohms. Im my case with the HE-6 all my 6SN7 work very good and actually Jude loved the sound of them using the Sylvania 6SN7WGT BB/CT (read his thread about the Lyr) but for some reason looks like my both pair of ECC32 do not had the right power for the HE-6 and distort at about 10 O'clock in the volume but the ECC32 with any other of my headphones seems to have more power than the 6SN7 collection. I do not undrestand why but I know that if I want to liesten to the HE-6 with my WA5-LE I will use the Sylvania 6SN7WGT or my TCA 5692 Red Base. They sound great with those two and when I am using my HD800, T1, DX1000, D7000 or Edition 9 the Mullard ECC32are the way to go.


----------



## K_19

I was finally able to find some Tung-Sol 6DE7 tubes on the ebay recently and they just arrived at my house today... I'll write a small review of how they sound different from my current vintage RCA 6DE7's.  I also have some Westinghouse and ITT 6DE7's in the batch but have no clue what to expect out of those... but I'll try those out eventually as well.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> G,
> 
> Did you write the review?


 

  Not me! To be fair I think it must have been the photographer that messed up the tube arrangement, not the reviewer.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for answering in both threads, musicman. I also have a pair of Sylvania Chrome Top short bottle but black base still running in in the WA5LE, I found it sound mild than the TS RPBG but very nice and I do like how it sound in classical music. Will pull the trigger on the ECC32 but my wallet will be bleeding.


 

 Are your Sylvanias 2-hole plate or 3-hole?  Appparently there is a considerable difference, with 3-hole being better.  I have a pair of chrome tops too, 6SN7W short glass but they are only the 2-hole version.  Nice sounding, not bright at all, with good drive but a bit soft on the details and bass control.  The tonal balance was too sugary sweet for my tastes.  IMO the black glass tung sol flat out clobbers it in most ways, especially sheer detail and resolution.  I think my side getter sylvania bad boys with 3-hole plates are also superior with tonal balance representing a much better version of "sweet" for my tastes.


----------



## spagetka

I have tried 6sn7w short black, ts rp oval and mullard ecc32 chelmer cryo black. with headphones: 1.ecc/ts 2.syl;  with speakers (bw 804s 90db): 1.ecc 2.ts 3.syl


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks you for answering the question, musicman. I hope they will sound great with my headphones, too.


 

  WA-5 sounds good with LCD-2 to me, I use the ECC32.


----------



## Icenine2

[size=x-small]This is taken from the Jack Wu interview in Positive Feedback [/size]http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue55/wooaudio.htm 
   
  In a few months, our new DAC and CD Transport will be announced to the public. Probably in parallel, you will also see a new monoblock headphone/speaker amplifier. We are thrilled to introduce this new amplifier to our customers. It combines breakthrough innovation and much improved key components.
  [size=x-small]Finally, but not least, we plan on introducing a high-end headphone to the market. This has always been my dream and we are elated that this will soon be a reality![/size]
   
  At first read it all sounds exciting.  I just hope they are not trying to expand too quickly.  That is a lot of new product.


----------



## Skylab

Whoa! A Woo headphone! Very cool!!! Hope it's a planar


----------



## dannie01

I'll check it out tonight see if it's 2 holes or 3-holes plate. Yes, I agree it sound sugary especially in classical music but the bass is not soft compare with TS RPBG, very well control, of course the TS have more impact in this region.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Are your Sylvanias 2-hole plate or 3-hole?  Appparently there is a considerable difference, with 3-hole being better.  I have a pair of chrome tops too, 6SN7W short glass but they are only the 2-hole version.  Nice sounding, not bright at all, with good drive but a bit soft on the details and bass control.  The tonal balance was too sugary sweet for my tastes.  IMO the black glass tung sol flat out clobbers it in most ways, especially sheer detail and resolution.  I think my side getter sylvania bad boys with 3-hole plates are also superior with tonal balance representing a much better version of "sweet" for my tastes.


 


   

 Thank you, Wedge. You are one of those guys who encourage me to make my wallet bleed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> WA-5 sounds good with LCD-2 to me, I use the ECC32.


----------



## dannie01

WHAT, WOO HEADPHONE AND MONOBLOCK HEADPHONE/SPEAKER AMPLIFIER?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> [size=x-small]This is taken from the Jack Wu interview in Positive Feedback [/size]http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue55/wooaudio.htm
> 
> In a few months, our new DAC and CD Transport will be announced to the public. Probably in parallel, you will also see a _*new monoblock headphone/speaker amplifier*_. We are thrilled to introduce this new amplifier to our customers. It combines breakthrough innovation and much improved key components.
> [size=x-small]Finally, but not least, _*we plan on introducing a high-end headphone to the market*_. This has always been my dream and we are elated that this will soon be a reality![/size]
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Whoa! A Woo headphone! Very cool!!! Hope it's a planar


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> [size=x-small]This is taken from the Jack Wu interview in Positive Feedback [/size]http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue55/wooaudio.htm
> 
> In a few months, our new DAC and CD Transport will be announced to the public. Probably in parallel, you will also see a new monoblock headphone/speaker amplifier. We are thrilled to introduce this new amplifier to our customers. It combines breakthrough innovation and much improved key components.
> [size=x-small]Finally, but not least, we plan on introducing a high-end headphone to the market. This has always been my dream and we are elated that this will soon be a reality![/size]
> ...


 

 I would've liked to have seen a Winter release (Jan/Feb) so that some of us could've used tax refunds for the assist. Icenine2, before changing over to J River 15, did you ever play with the Foobar plug-in for DSD? If so, how did it sound?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


_In retrospect_
   
  After we had this exchange on 21 Avril, later that night I approached the one person who, if he had the time, could've 'waxed' about WA amp configurations all day. When I asked Jack a few questions about mono-blocks and the 6 SE, he replied _"Can't comment on that. Be sure to use a good preamp." _
   
  The reply was cryptic, guarded and left me bewildered to say the least. I find today's announcement regarding monoblocks _amusing._ In a wonderful way, I might add (Jack).
  Can't wait to see this gear!


----------



## Icenine2

No I did not.  I did use kernel streaming with it for my Wyred4Sound Dac2.  Overall it was just too much work or too little time to get the whole thing like I wanted.  J River had everything plus nice display for album covers.  W4S guys recommended it to me.  You get a free trial for 30 days but I knew after one I wanted it.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I would've liked to have seen a Winter release (Jan/Feb) so that some of us could've used tax refunds for the assist. Icenine2, before changing over to J River 15, did you ever play with the Foobar plug-in for DSD? If so, how did it sound?


----------



## Icenine2

I've got to believe Woo headphones are going to be electrostatic or planar.  JW says in the interview how much they believe in electrostatics.  I do hope someday to get the opportunity to hear some great electrostatics through great amp like the Woo.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _In retrospect_
> 
> After we had this exchange on 21 Avril, later that night I approached the one person who, if he had the time, could've 'waxed' about WA amp configurations all day. When I asked Jack a few questions about mono-blocks and the 6 SE, he replied _"Can't comment on that. Be sure to use a good preamp." _
> 
> ...


 
  A good preamp, hum? Well I'll just have find a new spot to place my WA2 (front and center between my Zu Omens) and get ready for those monoblocks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> WHAT, WOO HEADPHONE AND MONOBLOCK HEADPHONE/SPEAKER AMPLIFIER?!


 
  I really need to take a break from this thread for a long while...


----------



## Clayton SF

Oh, no! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He's done monblocks in the past:
   
*WooAudio OCL Mono Block Speaker Amplifier- Eight 6080 power tubes connected in parallel that provide massive power.*


----------



## jc9394

and the 300B mono block too...


----------



## Clayton SF

Who owns a pair of those MB300Bs? I wonder when it was in production.


----------



## jc9394

I did a quick search, there are two threads on it.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/256933/more-sonic-goodness-from-woo-audio-300b-monoblocks
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/438804/my-slice-of-headphone-listening-heaven-i-may-have-found-an-ideal-amp-for-the-akg-k1000


----------



## dannie01

If the new monoblock from Jack is looking like that and use these quantity of tubes, I will be a lucky guy to get rid of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh, no!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

Klutz Design headphone stands.  Really cool, really expensive.  http://www.klutzdesign.com/
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/klutz/1.html


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Klutz Design headphone stands.  Really cool, really expensive.  http://www.klutzdesign.com/
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/klutz/1.html


 


  [size=x-small]€400 in Europe???  I rather get another pair of TS BGRP...[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh, no!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
_RRRRRight, that was my point_. Because we've seen his past work with Mono Blocks and custom designs, we now know he was being coy. Sometimes, when one is being guarded with info close to the vest, best strategy is not to comment. Because often what isn't said can be just as revealing.
   
  Can you imagine the innocent inquiries line-workers and secretaries get from visiting reps in Silicon Valley? There, no inquiry can be too innocent. _Either get 'em talking or keep 'em talking._
   
  In keeping with today's theme of looking back, I'm now wondering over lunch, what will the lush tones of Astrud Gilberto sound like through my new balanced D7000... with a balanced source and WA22. Hmmmm, might have to take you or Mike Malter out to eat so I could get in a 45 minute listening session...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> [size=x-small]This is taken from the Jack Wu interview in Positive Feedback [/size]http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue55/wooaudio.htm
> 
> In a few months, our new DAC and CD Transport will be announced to the public. Probably in parallel, you will also see a new monoblock headphone/speaker amplifier. We are thrilled to introduce this new amplifier to our customers. It combines breakthrough innovation and much improved key components.
> [size=x-small]Finally, but not least, we plan on introducing a high-end headphone to the market. This has always been my dream and we are elated that this will soon be a reality![/size]
> ...


 

 Wow.  Congrats to Jack Wu are in order.  Introducing a headphone is no small undertaking, though it certainly raises some questions.  These probably won't be hand made like the Woo amps are right now at the very least, and I can't wait to see where they are positioned in the marketplace (i.e. competing with the flagships like the LCD-2, or going for something more mid-market).  The new amp announcement sounds like a flagship product, or possibly a new category all together considering the mention of monoblock design so I'll still be happily saving towards my WA22 undeterred by this news.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> No I did not.  I did use kernel streaming with it for my Wyred4Sound Dac2.  Overall it was just too much work or too little time to get the whole thing like I wanted.  J River had everything plus nice display for album covers.  W4S guys recommended it to me.  You get a free trial for 30 days but I knew after one I wanted it.


 
  I just started trying J River myself.  Love it, and intend to buy after the 30 day trial.  I've used Winamp forever...... everything else I tried always had at least one deal breaker to stop me from switching including Foobar but J River was exactly what I was looking for.  It also sounds better, which was a nice bonus.  For whatever reason I could never get ASIO working on my computer, it seemed to be a problem with the driver support on the soundcard itself.  In fact an older version of J River I remember trying long ago also did not work, just produced a nasty squealing noise instead of music.  With J River 16, however, I was poking around in the audio output settings page and my eyebrow shot up upon seeing "C Media Oxygen ASIO" in the list for my Claro soundcard (where as before it was always just generic ASIO In/Out).  I tried it and, bam, it works perfectly and sounds noticeably better than Winamp ever did using WaveOut.  It was very refreshing to have something just work right for a change.


----------



## Icenine2

Everybody calls the black Woo's "Dust Magnets".  The silver are not much better which I'm judging by my obsessive ways.   They just don't show the dust!


----------



## Icenine2

OK boys.........hang on to your wallets if you can.  Audiogon post of WES for sale w/quad Shu's and an acrylic cover (remember rob w/maxed WA5?  This is his replacement rig and selling w/5 hours on!!)  If I hadn't bought the WA22+DAC2 this would be mine........all mine!!!!!


----------



## Icenine2

Here's the link
   
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1309474521&/Woo-Audio-Wes-Perhaps-the-best


----------



## sammyrambler

Hi Everybody. I guess I'm now in the club since my WA6 SE arrived this morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Since this is my first tube amp and first headphone amp, I wanted to ask you a few quick questions. (I promise I tried to search first.)
   
  1. I was under the impression that the standard rectifier tube was a 5U4G. I also ordered a Sophia Princess 274 B which arrived with the amp, but instead of also receiving a 5U4G, I received a different tube that says "Electron Tube 274 B Made in China" with a symbol that looks like a bird inside of the letter "G" and has a maroon base. Is that a good thing?
   
  2. I rolled in the tubes and hooked everything up (I hope correctly but this is my first rodeo). With my 'phones plugged in I turned her on and everything lit up. I waited 20 minutes, then played the first disc which sounded pretty awful: muddy, with the whole "rustling leaves" kinda thing going on. But after a few minutes (and some mild panic!) everything started to sound fine. Is this normal?
   
  3. I put the "other" 274 B tube in, but can't wait to try the Sophia. As long as I wait til the amp and tubes cool down, is there any reason not to switch back and forth between the two rectifier tubes I have?
   
  4. Lastly, do you guys see any reason (heat from chassis, etc.) I shouldn't place my WA6 SE on top of my ERC-2 CD player?
   
  Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## Icenine2

1. 274B is right
   
  2. The amp will need to "burn in"  This won't take huge hours but will take a few to get it sounding right.  Ditto for the tubes.
   
  3. Yes let everything cool down.  The delay won't work correctly if you just power off and not cool down.  Switch away but usually you'll hit the one you like and it will be easier.
   
  4. I would not put the amp on top of anything other than a table/rack/etc.  You don't need the CD transport whirring next to tubes sensitive to such noise.
   
  5. Don't stare directly into the tubes!!!   You'll become hypnotized!!!!!  Oh yeah............and because you are new you are buying!! 
  
  Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> Hi Everybody. I guess I'm now in the club since my WA6 SE arrived this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Audiogalore

Hi Sammyrambler: Congratulation on your purchase. I had owned a WA-6SE, very well built and fine sounding amp. 1st. of all welcome to the tube world. Tubes by nature are quite micro-phonic and some are more noticeable than others. The Sophia 274B is a fine upgrade and especially does require break in time "patience's is a virtue" allow 20 minutes minimum status each time when first turning on amp. Also load before turning on amp. when I say loading make sure to plug headphones into output jack completing loop. As far as switching tubes that is just part of the fun, just make sure as mentioned to handle cooled down tubes with care and do not touch with bare fingers use some cotton clean gloves to remove and reinsert tubes into sockets. Not a very good idea stacking. Leave amp on its own stand and plenty of ventilation is much better for sound and longer life. Enjoy music!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> OK boys.........hang on to your wallets if you can.  Audiogon post of WES for sale w/quad Shu's and an acrylic cover (remember rob w/maxed WA5?  This is his replacement rig and selling w/5 hours on!!)  If I hadn't bought the WA22+DAC2 this would be mine........all mine!!!!!


 

 Interesting sell--BUT,
   
  I am saving myself as well as my money--
   
  FOR THE NEXT AMP FROM WOO AUDIO.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine mine mine mine!!!
   
  Oh, sorry. I don't know what came over me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Just to expound a bit for sammy since it wasn't clarified, microphonic means that tubes are by nature sensitive to vibration and they will tend to pass it along as noise in the audio.  CD players all vibrate during operation which would make stacking the Woo on top of one a bad idea.  Ideally to prolong the life of the tubes you want to wait an hour after powering down before powering back up again.  You don't have to, a mere 5 minute cool down will suffice, but giving it 30 minutes to an hour is considered best practice.  When turning the amp on you also want to allow it to remain on for at least one hour for the same reason:  a quick heat up and cool down is the worst thing for the life of the tubes.  The amp itself doesn't care how frequenty it is turned on and off, it is all about tube maintenance. 
   
  The 274B rectifier is a direct, electrically compatible replacement for a 5U4G.  They do not sound exactly the same, but they operate within the same electrical parameters in the Woo circuit.  The 274B is one of more than a dozen rectifier tubes that can be used safely in your amp, including the 5AR4, 5U4G, 5R4GY (a personal favorite of mine), 5Y3, 5AS4, 5V4G, and a variety of British GZ numbered tubes.  Each has its own sound and this fact can be used to tweak the performance of the amp to your liking, along with changing the driver/output tubes.
   
  Welcome to the club and enjoy your new amp!


----------



## sammyrambler

Thanks for the feedback!
   
  So if I understand correctly, I should always have headphones plugged in before I turn on the amp and should give it some "warm up" time by turning the amp on with no music playing for about 20 min. (or at least 5 min. or so).
   
  I assume it's alright to have my CD player turned on but not playing during warm up...is that right?
   
  As for the rectifier tubes, it seems the consensus is that the Sophia Princess is really good and very much an upgrade over the "stock" 5U4G. Does anyone know anything about the difference between the maroon-based 274 B I described above and a 5U4G? Is there a difference?
   
  Finally, at the end of a listening session I can just turn off my source, then turn off the amp and that's it (it feels silly asking this question but I just spent a huge amount of money in my world on this setup and don't want to mess it up!).
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## K_19

I personally find 20 minute warm-up a little overboard. I usually let it sit about 3-5 minutes then let it rip.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I personally find 20 minute warm-up a little overboard. I usually let it sit about 3-5 minutes then let it rip.


 

 x2


----------



## grokit

I turned my amp off yesterday with sound still playing from the source, I wondered if that was bad practice right after I did it. And I have been known to listen right after the power indicator light stops blinking but usually I wait a few minutes.


----------



## Icenine2

I leave mine on a few before lift off.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> So if I understand correctly, I should always have headphones plugged in before I turn on the amp and should give it some "warm up" time by turning the amp on with no music playing for about 20 min. (or at least 5 min. or so).
> 
> ...


 

 I think 3-5 minutes is more than enough as well.
   
  Yes, that is fine.
   
  The Brown Base 274B with the Bird and says made in China are the standard issue Shuguang, its not that awesome of a tube, but it works.
   
  No, not silly, practical, you spent a lot of money and you want it to last.
   
  And, welcome to the Woo Audio Owner's Club or whatever it is, lol.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> So if I understand correctly, I should always have headphones plugged in before I turn on the amp and should give it some "warm up" time by turning the amp on with no music playing for about 20 min. (or at least 5 min. or so).
> 
> ...


 

  
  sammyrambler, welcome to 'Woo Audio Owner Unite.' I too, selected the WA 6 Special Edition as my first Woo. I can tell you now it won't be my last - Woo Audio is a fine manufacturer. A few things to consider:
   
  Though you may be tempted, _avoid operating your amp for more than eight consecutive hours_. _Avoid leaving your amp unattended_. The future could have you wanting to burn-in new tubes, cables and accessories and _you might get the urge to just run to the store... don't do it_. And urgent matters exempted,_ try to avoid turning the amp on and off before a cooling period_. 
   
  Power. Others may do this differently and I'm not advising here on powering up & down, but rather sharing my own practice. I start downstream and power up my amp first, followed by my DAC and then source. I do the reverse when I power down - source, DAC, amp...
   
  It ain't over 'till it's over. The reason why I power up & down sequentially is because I am carefully watching and listening for irregularities. 
   
  These are just a few best practices I choose to observe. I consider my own listening sessions privileged and special. And I'm willing to avoid practices because it shouldn't hurt; can get away with it. What I know for sure is you're gonna have fun!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I personally find 20 minute warm-up a little overboard. I usually let it sit about 3-5 minutes then let it rip.


 


  I've begun listening within 10 seconds of turn on myself.  No biggie, but I do feel the sound quality steadily improves during the first 2 hours before leveling off.  This seems to vary a bit depending upon tubes too, but the highs are always more refined towards the end of a listening session when the amp has been on for hours.


----------



## Xcalibur255

FWIW, I have personally never paid attention to which order components are turned on.  My amp is always powered up before turning on the CD player, this isn't deliberate it is just my practice to turn the amp on first.  My typical source is the PC which is usually on before the amp, but again this is just my habit and not anything I do specifically.  I don't think the Woo cares about whether it has an input signal or not, but it most certainly does care about whether or not headphones are plugged in.  Not having a load on the output can damage the output transformer if left that way for more than a few moments.


----------



## Silent One

I'm a pretty mellow cat, never in a hurry to sit down and start listening. (hmmm, maybe I should reorder some more of this tea...) Don't get me wrong, I'm always excited and in a hurry to start the process of listening for the night, just not underneath the cans before it's time.
   
  I don't listen every night, generally three to four nights a week. And though I love being spontaneous, usually I'll know by evening if I'll be sitting in for a session or not. And will give myself a warm up of at least one hour, toward a second if busy. The difference is telling - the outline of notes are more refined; entire passages seem more relaxed. 
   
  Also, warming periods allow time to wrap loose ends so a session needn't be rudely, prematurely interrupted. Is there such a thing as a 'pre-warm up' as well? _Yes_. This is an opportunity for 'Check down', as I do not like to leave my Woo unattended. _So, if I have go to the Goodie Store..._
   
  (swings open door to fridge/freezer) Milk? Check. PET evaporated milk? Check. Borden's Sweetened Condensed Milk? Check. Pure Vanilla Extract? Check. And Haagen-Dazs Vanilla or Dulce de Leche? CHECK!!!
   
  Never know when a listening session might emotionally call for a cool sweet treat!


----------



## sammyrambler

I'll tell you something else my amp seems to care about and that's the old Pioneer receiver I have it sitting on (but not for long).
   
  I was getting that really muffled, distorted, muddy sound so I decided to compare the sound to my receiver's hp jack.
   
  I turned on the receiver, tried the hp jack and then went back to the WA6. The distortion was gone.
   
  It seems as though the WA6 is picking up something from the receiver in stand by mode. But when the receiver is turned on...the distortion goes away.
   
  Does this sound crazy to you guys?


----------



## K_19

Does anyone know what company the ITT (International Telephone and Telegraph Company) tubes are re-brand of?  Couldn't find much information on these 6DE7's except that they're from the sixties and Made in Japan .  I'm asking as these sound much better than I expected, almost as much as the Tung-Sol 6DE7's I tried earlier, which were indeed as good as advertised by a few fellow members here.


----------



## shipsupt

sammyrambler said:


> I'll tell you something else my amp seems to care about and that's the old Pioneer receiver I have it sitting on (but not for long).
> 
> I was getting that really muffled, distorted, muddy sound so I decided to compare the sound to my receiver's hp jack.
> 
> ...




I don't pick up any noise on my WA6-SE, but I have a Little Dot I+ tube amp that picks up RF like crazy. I go mad trying to find a spot on the table near my recliner where it won't pick up noise. Unfortunately I have quite a few offenders close bye, router, wireless phone, mini-cell tower, and other audio gear in the same area that is making it difficult to find a sweet spot. The general area is quite convenient so I'd prefer not to move any the gear to far, but I'm starting to get to the point where that might be my only option. I haven't narrowed down which item is causing the interference.

I seem to follow the same general guidelines for start up and shut down as others have mentioned. Of course I have my own little ritual I follow when I prepare for listening which varies slightly. It involves a chicken and... kidding of course.

My father was the one who taught me at an early age never to run a amp without a load and I've just followed that advice since. However I've heard little bits here and there (a little knowledge is dangerous) that in certain cases it's not necessary... specifically SS amps are not an issue, and most "modern" tube amps will have a "safety load" wired in to prevent internal oscillation from developing during a no load condition and/or high voltage protection diodes. I wonder if Woo has something wired in there... 

Which leads me to more questions...

Would having the volume down when you remove the load change the condition or is it actually the input signal you'd want to stop? I certainly always turn the volume down all the way if I am going to swap headphones, but should I stop the input as well even if the time between connections is short?

I am lead to believe that the output transformer or the tubes will likely get damaged when there is no current generated and the voltage starts to climb until there is an arc. If this is the case is there still risk of damage to an OTL amp?

Again, I learned a long time ago to listen to Dad, and it's not failed me yet, so I stick with the good practice of always having a load connected. I'm just throwing out some questions to which I don't have answers for conversation.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Go ahead and turn on a SS amp first (high current), then the preamp. I doubt your speakers will like it too much (especially if you forgot to turn the volume down previously).  Take your Dad's advice, it's generally good practice. I'm sure he also told you to turn them off in the opposite order that you turned them on...
   
  I always turn my CD player on first, then the WA22.  When I'm done, I turn off the WA22 and then the CD player.


----------



## Audiogalore

I agree, absolutely that is the proper way to power up and power down to prevent tank circuit load developing and allows capacitors dispensation to discharge correctly.
   
  Enjoy music!
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Go ahead and turn on a SS amp first (high current), then the preamp. I doubt your speakers will like it too much (especially if you forgot to turn the volume down previously).  Take your Dad's advice, it's generally good practice. I'm sure he also told you to turn them off in the opposite order that you turned them on...
> 
> I always turn my CD player on first, then the WA22.  When I'm done, I turn off the WA22 and then the CD player.


----------



## dannie01

Totally agree and my Dad taught me this order when the first time I learnt how to operate his system a long time ago and that never fail since.
  

  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> My father was the one who taught me at an early age never to run a amp without a load and I've just followed that advice since. However I've heard little bits here and there (a little knowledge is dangerous) that in certain cases it's not necessary... specifically SS amps are not an issue, and most "modern" tube amps will have a "safety load" wired in to prevent internal oscillation from developing during a no load condition and/or high voltage protection diodes. I wonder if Woo has something wired in there...
> 
> Which leads me to more questions...
> 
> ...


 

  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Go ahead and turn on a SS amp first (high current), then the preamp. I doubt your speakers will like it too much (especially if you forgot to turn the volume down previously).  Take your Dad's advice, it's generally good practice. I'm sure he also told you to turn them off in the opposite order that you turned them on...
> 
> I always turn my CD player on first, then the WA22.  When I'm done, I turn off the WA22 and then the CD player.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> OK boys.........hang on to your wallets if you can.  Audiogon post of WES for sale w/quad Shu's and an acrylic cover (remember rob w/maxed WA5?  This is his replacement rig and selling w/5 hours on!!)  If I hadn't bought the WA22+DAC2 this would be mine........all mine!!!!!


 
   
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Here's the link
> 
> http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1309474521&/Woo-Audio-Wes-Perhaps-the-best


 

 I have a WES amp like that with the same Shugang 50-years Treasures 6CA7, plus RCA 6SL7 and Tung Sol 5U4G tubes.  Over Thanksgiving both of my brothers-in-law compared the WES with Stax O2 Mk1 to my Eddie Current ZDT with my re-cabled HD800 and HE-6, and we all picked the WES/O2 as our favorite.  I bough the actual demo amp that Steve Guttenberg used in his glowing review, which only does balanced input - the unused RCA jacks were converted to loop-outs which also sound excellent with no sonic degradation when feeding another amp.  I use a Jensen Transformers ISOmax to convert my SE phono preamp to balanced, so I can feed it into the WES.


----------



## Wedge

ITT owned Lorenz, but if they were made in Japan, I am not sure who they were re-brands of.
  
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Does anyone know what company the ITT (International Telephone and Telegraph Company) tubes are re-brand of?  Couldn't find much information on these 6DE7's except that they're from the sixties and Made in Japan .  I'm asking as these sound much better than I expected, almost as much as the Tung-Sol 6DE7's I tried earlier, which were indeed as good as advertised by a few fellow members here.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> ITT owned Lorenz, but if they were made in Japan, I am not sure who they were re-brands of.


 

 Here's a quote from Brent Jessee of audiotubes.com:
   
*Those made by Matsushita (who made much of the Japanese tubes available) were made in a factory that was set up by Mullard, and their tubes are very similar to the famous Mullards. Japanese brands include Towa, Matsushita, NEC, Toshiba, Futuba, and Hitachi. They also made tubes for late 1970s Realistic, RCA, Raytheon, Motorola, Zenith, and others. *
   
  I don't know if Matsushita made the ITT 6DE7 though, but it may explain why that Japanese tube sounds better than expected.


----------



## Skylab

There are kind of two camps in terms of post-war Japanese tubes.  Some say they are really quite good and will be the next NOS tube craze.  SOme say they were poorly made and not to bother.  I do not have enough of them to have an opinion.  Some of the Matsushita, NEC, and Hitachi tubes I have come across sure looked well made, though.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

So... which one of you grabbed this WA22 from the 'gon yesterday? 

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1309733417&/Woo-Audio-WA22-steal-this


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So... which one of you grabbed this WA22 from the 'gon yesterday?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 "Not I" said the Woo from Woo-ville.


----------



## Icenine2

That WA22 was a great deal.  Tube upgrade+dbl secret balanced in!


----------



## Icenine2

They added this picture since first posting the WA22 for sale.    The caption says part of a former collection 3 weeks ago.  Check out the amps this guy has!
   
http://pic5.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/image?ampstran&1309733417&pic&class&i/c/f/1304549481.jpg&Woo-Audio-WA22


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _RRRRRight, that was my point_. Because we've seen his past work with Mono Blocks and custom designs, we now know he was being coy. Sometimes, when one is being guarded with info close to the vest, best strategy is not to comment. Because often what isn't said can be just as revealing.
> 
> Can you imagine the innocent inquiries line-workers and secretaries get from visiting reps in Silicon Valley? There, no inquiry can be too innocent. _Either get 'em talking or keep 'em talking._
> 
> In keeping with today's theme of looking back, I'm now wondering over lunch, what will the lush tones of Astrud Gilberto sound like through my new balanced D7000... with a balanced source and WA22. Hmmmm, might have to take you or Mike Malter out to eat so I could get in a 45 minute listening session...


 

 Silent One,  any time you want to come by, let me know.  I work out of my home office, so you are welcomed to come by for a listen.


----------



## Alucrid

I've had my WA6 for about five or six months now and it's been absolutely incredible. No complaints here...except for the fact that my arm will touch the tube occasionally and I'll burn myself.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> They added this picture since first posting the WA22 for sale.    The caption says part of a former collection 3 weeks ago.  Check out the amps this guy has!
> 
> http://pic5.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/image?ampstran&1309733417&pic&class&i/c/f/1304549481.jpg&Woo-Audio-WA22


 
  Very interesting. He says that his reason for selling is that he is totally getting out of headphones and doesn't enjoy that niche of the market anymore. I wonder how long his love for headphones and hp amps lasted before kicking them out the door.


----------



## Icenine2

I'm voting obsession then bored then sale.  Even if I got tired of the headphone thing opposed to a mega rig I would keep at least one headphone rig.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Totally agree and my Dad taught me this order when the first time I learnt how to operate his system a long time ago and that never fail since.


 


  Power down revisited.
   
  FWIW - I stand corrected. I did not accurately recall my sequence and in fact power down amp first, dac, music server. My system has been down for two weeks awaiting upgrades - bridge, cables & headphones, so memory did not serve me well.
   
  Thanks to the comments that followed, I began to second guess_ just how did I power down?!_ Then I recalled my new amp last summer _running hot as the Devil_; shutting it down quickly was my natural instinct and fell into that routine. Never got a proper brief on handling vacuum tube amps.
   
  Still, I needed a confirmation last night and fired off a _midnight message_ to Woo Audio. Jack confirmed with the components in my system, my power up & down sequence is correct.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I'm voting obsession then bored then sale.  Even if I got tired of the headphone thing opposed to a mega rig I would keep at least one headphone rig.


 


  Because of his strong interest (_obsession_), I bet his audio log (_journa_l) would be a fantastic read! May he read this thread and publish for our entertainment.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Silent One,  any time you want to come by, let me know.  I work out of my home office, so you are welcomed to come by for a listen.


 


  Thanks kindly, sir. Good thing I sprung for the single-ended adapter. Otherwise, my balanced Denons would be_ all dressed up with no place to go_. A couple of months back, I was hangin' out in Oakland-Berkeley-Richmond. And no sooner than I saw the exit for the S.R. Bridge I thought _"Now, what could he be listening to?"_
   
  Currently fascinated with making a trip to Santa Rosa Farmer's Market. Dominique Cortara of Dominique's Sweets will be selling her renowned Macarons there. She's French trained (Le Cordon Bleu - Paris) and a contact highly recommends indulging. I could always have them 'overnighted' but then, life is about good people and experiences. Take you and your gear for example...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Did you ever get your system resolved? I remember you had issues with chemistry, brightness and such.


----------



## sammyrambler

I've unplugged my receiver, tape player and old CD player and put them in another room to rule out any interference from those sources. (I was having an issue with my WA6 SE that seemed to be connected to turning the receiver on and off that the amp was sitting on...with the sound problems seeming to happen when the receiver was off?)
   
  This is my chain: Emotiva ERC-2>WA6 SE>RS1i. (Connected with Emotiva X-series interconnects and X-series AC power cord that's plugged into a surge protector along with the CDP and a floor lamp...and the ERC-2 on a wood table next to the amp.)
   
  I'm getting ready to give it a try and hope the problem resolves (the problem being muffled, muddy bass and vocals, etc.). If not I may need your help!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> I'll tell you something else my amp seems to care about and that's the old Pioneer receiver I have it sitting on (but not for long).
> 
> I was getting that really muffled, distorted, muddy sound so I decided to compare the sound to my receiver's hp jack.
> 
> ...


 



 IMO it would be best to not have the WA6SE on or right next to other gear.  It is possibly picking up RF interference, which tubes definitely will do, or the powersupply/transformer in the receiver could be the culprit because of the close proximity.  If this doesn't fix it I would look at electrical causes, possibly ground loops.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There are kind of two camps in terms of post-war Japanese tubes.  Some say they are really quite good and will be the next NOS tube craze.  SOme say they were poorly made and not to bother.  I do not have enough of them to have an opinion.  Some of the Matsushita, NEC, and Hitachi tubes I have come across sure looked well made, though.


 

 I have a pair of Raytheon 6EW7 which are made in Japan.  Construction quality is at least as good as the US made tubes of this type I've had.  They sound quite good too, in a different sort of way that is hard to put a finger on.  They give both the impression of being bright and dark at the same time depending upon what is being listened to, seems to me like a very narrow response peak which only appears with the right material.  With the EML 274B they were mellow and revealing most of the time, but too lazy sounding in terms of PRaT.


----------



## leesure

Prepping for this Saturday's Philly area mini-meet.  Gonna have a battle of the kilo-buck Woo amps.
   

   
  Same source, same cans (HiFiMan HE-500's)


----------



## PanamaRed

Just set up the Woo Audio 22 going through my W4S DAC-2.
   
  I'm running a brand new LCD-2 with new balanced ALO audio cables as well.
   
  Initial Impressions -
   
  The WA22 is a damn tank. The build quality is amazing. I can't wait to break everything in but I can tell you now i've already never heard music sound this good before.
   
  I'm still waiting on balanced cables for my HD800 (also new).
   
  So I have a lot of listening in the days/weeks/months ahead.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Prepping for this Saturday's Philly area mini-meet.  Gonna have a battle of the kilo-buck Woo amps.
> 
> 
> 
> Same source, same cans (HiFiMan HE-500's)


 
   
  Wow! A Woo Bar! That's great. Tube Cocktails and friendly service!


----------



## K_19

Just a quick review on the three different types of 6DE7 tubes I received a few days ago. My rig is Foobar -> Macbook Air (bootcamp) -> Hiface -> Stello DA100 -> WA6SE with EML 5U4G rectifier amping my HD800 and my LCD-2's as reference. I had previously used the RCA 6DE7 as my main, and also used GE 6DE7 before (but put that one away as I found it to lack bass response to my liking). All three brands of tubes are NOS matched pairs.
   
  Tung Sol 6DE7: I have to say these were as good as advertised! The strong points of these tubes IMO are their bass response, which extend deeper than any other 6DE7's I've used and also slams more than sufficiently enough, and with great detail and finesse at that. The highs are also very well extended and crisp, and as it has been mentioned before it seems to separate notes incredibly well. Also one of the more detailed 6DE7's I've used as well, without sounding peaky at all at any range. Soundstage is not as open as the RCA's but still sufficiently wide and deep to my ears. If I had to nitpick a flaw of this pair, I would say that the mids may not be as forward as some people may like them, but they do not sit back or anything like that either; they just simply stay neutral and blend in with rest of the range evenly without sounding prominent. But if you are a type that likes their mids a little upfront then you may find these to sit back a little. But overall, I have to say that this is one of the best pairs of 6DE7's that I've tried, and goes well with headphones such as HD800 that could use a little kick in the bass area.
   
  Westinghouse 6DE7: Were fairly disappointed with these. Now, these tubes don't do anything particularly wrong or anything like that; there are no annoying peaks anywhere and the sound was fairly balanced and detailed overall. But the reason I found these disappointing was that they don't seem to do anything that well either... I found it quite boring to be honest and emotionally uninvolving. I wouldn't mind at all going to these tubes as a backup or something if my current ones were to all die, but otherwise I wouldn't have any urges to use these as my primary driver tubes.
   
  ITT 6DE7: Now these myterious 60's Made in Japan 6DE7's (that's what it says on the box, anyway) really surprised me quite a bit. The part that stood out to me the most about this tube is their bass, and particularly their midbass... the midbass of these tubes slam harder than any 6DE7 tubes that I've tried so far, even more than the Tung-Sols. The lowbass also extends well down low, just seemingly not as much or as detailed as the Tung-Sols overall. I peronally find the two tubes to be almost equal in bass prowess, with the difference being ITT's having harder hitting midbass and the Tung-Sols having deeper lowbass. Another interesting quality of these are their midrange; it is on quite an upfront side. The lower midrange in particular seems to be pushed a little more forward than any other 6DE7's I've tried, and while this may be to many people's preference, it may not be to others (but since I like upfront mids this is something I definitely enjoy). The highs are also extended enough and sparkle suffciently, just not with as much prowess as the Tung-Sol, GE's or the RCA's. The tube's weakness? I'd say it's their soundstage width/depth.... they seem to sound a little closed in (it's still accurate though, and as I have headphones with excellent soundstaging ability it is not that bothersome). These are also not as refined or detailed as the RCA's or the Tung-Sol's, but the notes are separated very well still. Overall, I's say If you are looking for a slightly coloured yet emotionally involving 6DE7 tube then I would say these are worth looking into.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


leesure said:


> Prepping for this Saturday's Philly area mini-meet.  Gonna have a battle of the kilo-buck Woo amps.
> 
> 
> 
> Same source, same cans (HiFiMan HE-500's)


 
   
  And we'll have Jack's WA6 with 7n7 tubes on adapters as well.  Should be great comparing between the 3.
   
  That's a gorgeous table for silver Woos.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> And we'll have Jack's WA6 with 7n7 tubes on adapters as well.  Should be great comparing between the 3.
> 
> That's a gorgeous table for silver Woos.


 

 Yep...that will be in a different room on a different source, but I'm looking forward to firing that one up too!
   
  I just wish Jack had sent me power cords!  I'm scrambling around pulling them out of everything.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks kindly, sir. Good thing I sprung for the single-ended adapter. Otherwise, my balanced Denons would be_ all dressed up with no place to go_. A couple of months back, I was hangin' out in Oakland-Berkeley-Richmond. And no sooner than I saw the exit for the S.R. Bridge I thought _"Now, what could be listening to?"_
> 
> Currently fascinated with making a trip to Santa Rosa Farmer's Market. Dominique Cortara of Dominique's Sweets will be selling her renowned Macarons there. She's French trained (Le Cordon Bleu - Paris) and a contact highly recommends indulging. I could always have them 'overnighted' but then, life is about good people and experiences. Take you and your gear for example...
> 
> ...


 

 Sigh, no.  I have been absent here for three weeks while I try to get everything worked out.  I bought a QNAP because I thought that maybe my server was contributing to brightness.  But no, same issues.  Then I bought a Squeezebox thinking maybe it was the bridge, but I still got some kind of brightness and edginess.  I spoke with the folks at PS Audio, and they gave me an RMA and they are going to look at the DAC.  When I started telling him that there was something that was pressing on my sinuses and ears and giving me a headach, he said it might be what he called sub-audio and they actually have a machine that can measure it (that is what they told me; maybe he made that up because he thinks I am a crack-pot).  Not sure exactly what it is, but whatever was happening with that DAC it threw my hearing out of wack.  It's taken a couple of days to recover and finally things are sounding normal now.  Too bad because the PWD is much more dynamic then the DLIII, but the DLIII is so rich and right sounding.  I even bought a pair of LCD-2's as everyone says they are dark and maybe that would help, but no, same thing.
   
  Bottom line, nothing sounds good streamed over my network, and it's only when I am listening to either my iPod or iTouch, and then through the Wadia i170 and then through the Monarchy DIP that anything sounds right.  As soon as the PWD comes back from PS Audio, it's another round of testing and if it does not sound right, it's out the door.  It was worth the experience of listening to different equipment to find my baseline and I realized that I really like what the HD800 brings to the party.  I find them very delicate and subtle and like them the best.  The LCD-2 is really a good headphone, but not my cup of tea, and I figure out what to do with them after my DAC comes back.
   
  If you want to stop by on your way to/from Santa Rosa, please feel free.  I have some nice teas, and I make a very nice espresso ristritto (may go nicely with the macaroons).  You are welcome to spend some time here listening.  My DAC is going out tomorrow, so there is only the WA22 and the DLIII to listen to.  It would be interesting to have another pair of ears to compare to.


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks for this. I've got some similar components in my rig so this is helpful. Of course now I've really got to ramp up my search for some Tung Sol 6DE7's!





k_19 said:


> Just a quick review on the three different types of 6DE7 tubes I received a few days ago. My rig is Foobar -> Macbook Air (bootcamp) -> Hiface -> Stello DA100 -> WA6SE with EML 5U4G rectifier amping my HD800 and my LCD-2's as reference. I had previously used the RCA 6DE7 as my main, and also used GE 6DE7 before (but put that one away as I found it to lack bass response to my liking). All three brands of tubes are NOS matched pairs.
> 
> Tung Sol 6DE7: I have to say these were as good as advertised! The strong points of these tubes IMO are their bass response, which extend deeper than any other 6DE7's I've used and also slams more than sufficiently enough, and with great detail and finesse at that. The highs are also very well extended and crisp, and as it has been mentioned before it seems to separate notes incredibly well. Also one of the more detailed 6DE7's I've used as well, without sounding peaky at all at any range. Soundstage is not as open as the RCA's but still sufficiently wide and deep to my ears. If I had to nitpick a flaw of this pair, I would say that the mids may not be as forward as some people may like them, but they do not sit back or anything like that either; they just simply stay neutral and blend in with rest of the range evenly without sounding prominent. But if you are a type that likes their mids a little upfront then you may find these to sit back a little. But overall, I have to say that this is one of the best pairs of 6DE7's that I've tried, and goes well with headphones such as HD800 that could use a little kick in the bass area.
> 
> ...


----------



## sammyrambler

Good News!
   
  After getting my WA6 SE off of the receiver and putting it on a table next to my CDP (same proximity as leesure has in his pics)...the problem seems to be solved.
   
  I guess tube amps are like orchids, they're finicky...but it's worth the trouble! (Garcia/Grisman's first Acoustic Disc release is more stunning than I've ever heard it before, as are some of the great jazz albums--Blue Train got a run through last night--not to mention some of Ben Harper's stuff.)
   
  Now I can concentrate on getting the amp and tubes burned in and hitting their potential...and then trying the Sophia. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Moral of the story: Receivers don't always play well with tube amps!


----------



## Skylab

I think of myself as the Tung-Sol king, but I have never found any Tung-Sol 6DE7...I have Tung-Sol 6FD7's, but I am not actually sure they are Tung-Sol made.


----------



## K_19

There were some Tung Sol 6DE7's on ebay recently. I think there may be a pair on auction right now even... check it out if you are interested!
   
  edit: here - http://cgi.ebay.ca/VINTAGE-AMPLIFIER-RADIO-TUBE-PAIR-6DE7-NOS-BLACK-PLAT-/220776212692?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336749a8d4


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> Good News!
> 
> After getting my WA6 SE off of the receiver and putting it on a table next to my CDP (same proximity as leesure has in his pics)...the problem seems to be solved.
> 
> ...


 

 TGIF!
  Your timing couldn't have been more perfect. You've a great weekend ahead and listening sessions yet to come. Don't forget about 'Miss Sophia'... I don't think she's going to want to be kept waiting.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have heard the Tung Sol 6DE7, courtesy of GroundZero, and found them the best 6DE7 I ever heard by a pretty wide margin.  Impressive bass out of those little tubes, and the upper mids are not forward like they tend to be with many tung sol tubes I have heard.  Takezo and I talked about 6FD7s a long time ago and he felt any Tung Sol 6FD7 would likely be a re-brand.  I once saw a pair of Mullard 6FD7 for sale, and still wonder now if they were really made in England or were a US brand re-brand.  There has been a pair of Amperex 6EW7 listed on eBay for some time now too that had me wondering the same thing.  The plate structure didn't match up completely with any US 6EW7 I've seen.  If one looks hard enough there are some curious choices out there for these amps.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Here is a single Tung-Sol 6DE7 offered by an Italian seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/6DE7-TUNG-SOL-Tube-Lampe-Rohre-Valvola-NOS-/250802698228?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a650177f4

Would love to try these in my 6SE. I've had the best luck with some "Kuhl-Tube" Sylvania 6DE7s from the early 60s (I think).


----------



## Skylab

There were very definitely 6EW7's made in the UK. I have several GE branded 6EW7's that are British made and indicate such on the tube. I have some Mullard branded 6FD7 though that say Made in USA. Never seen any 6FD7's that said they were made in England.


----------



## jerico

Nice one Panama Red - I'm running just about the same setup as you, and think it kicks booty. Enjoy it all!

I'm addicted to my LCD2 nowadays - they really grew on me.


----------



## baka1969

I have the WA2 in the house. I picked it up at Lee's meet yesterday. I'll have it on loan and will do a full comparision between the WA2 and the WA6SE after I've had some time with the two. As everyonce already knows, they're both gorgeous looking.
   
  How big are the differences? Are there similarities? Is one truly better with the HD800 than the other? That's what I want to try and find out. I'll write my review soon.
   
  One note: The WA2 has the stock tubes. To be fair, I will switch the WA6SE back to the stock tubes for all the comparisions. I just want to be consistent and give both amps an equal opportunity.


----------



## Skylab

Very cool, Ross. I would upgrade my WA6 maxxed to a WA6SE if I had room for the double-chassis. Unfortunately where my WA6 lives, there is not room. Looking forward to your comparison, though!!!


----------



## sphinxvc

Heard the WA6 with Jack's new 7n7 teflon tube adapters at Lee's meet yesterday.  It's definitely a step above the stock tubes, a very refined sound.  I had a tough time deciding whether I liked the stock WA6-SE at the meet or the 7n7-ed WA6 better with my K701s.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

I have a WA22 and will be getting these replacement tubes from Jack soon :
*Power tubes upgrade:*Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
  *Driver tubes upgrade:*Hand-pick matched pair Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT
*Rectifier tube replacement: *Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier  
   
  Since this is my first time with tube amps, I need some advice.
  Should I replace all stock tubes with the new ones or do I try different combinations.
  And if so, what combination would be best suited for each specific headphones
   
  Headphones inventory : Grado PS1000, GS1000i, balanced RS1i, balanced HD800, LCD-2 ALO Cable.
  TIA


----------



## Wedge

Depends are the stock tubes the GE 6SN7GTs?  I find the Shuggies to be too expensive and just as good or better can be had for less.  They cost around the same price as TS BGRPs, Sylvania Bad Boyz, or CV1988s, which are IMO all better tubes.  You may find that you like the GE 6SN7s just as much or just a little less than the Shuggies.  For the LCD-2 in my LCD-2 I use 5998 or 7236, ECC32 and NOS RCA 5U4G.  I have also tried it with the TS BGRP.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


>


 

 Nice photo, baka1969. What kind of flash did you use, if any? It's not harsh like I get from my $2 digital camera. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Its focus is also sharp. And where did your b22 o22 go now that the WA2 has taken up residence?


----------



## baka1969

Quote:Originally Posted by Clayton SF 




 "Nice photo, baka1969. What kind of flash did you use, if any? It's not harsh like I get from my $2 digital camera. Its focus is also sharp. And where did your b22 o22 go now that the WA2 has taken up residence?"


 It's my BlackBerry 9780. It took about a dozen pics to get it right. But really if there's enough light it takes a pretty decent shot. It just doesn't have enough ISO to take shots in lower light.


----------



## dminches

wedge said:


> Depends are the stock tubes the GE 6SN7GTs?  I find the Shuggies to be too expensive and just as good or better can be had for less.  They cost around the same price as TS BGRPs, Sylvania Bad Boyz, or CV1988s, which are IMO all better tubes.  You may find that you like the GE 6SN7s just as much or just a little less than the Shuggies.  For the LCD-2 in my LCD-2 I use 5998 or 7236, ECC32 and NOS RCA 5U4G.  I have also tried it with the TS BGRP.




I agree that TS BGRPs are much nicer sounding than the treasures, but they are at least double the cost.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I agree that TS BGRPs are much nicer sounding than the treasures, but they are at least double the cost.


 

 ECC32s are about double the price, but TS BGRP can be had for very similar prices to the Shuguang, maybe a little bit more.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





wedge said:


> ECC32s are about double the price, but TS BGRP can be had for very similar prices to the Shuguang, maybe a little bit more.


 

 Treasure is only around $195 on fleabay but the ECC32 are at least $600 a pair...
   
  The Treasure is not a bad drive tubes with 5998 and 5U4G for LCD-2.


----------



## Wedge

I guess I was using Jack's price for the Treasures, which is $280.


----------



## Skylab

shahzada123 said:


> I have a WA22 and will be getting these replacement tubes from Jack soon :
> *Power tubes upgrade:*Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
> *Driver tubes upgrade:*Hand-pick matched pair Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT
> *Rectifier tube replacement: *Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier
> ...


Some will likely disagree, but I would say at first replace ALL the stock tubes. Then see how you like the sound. If you are happy, great,. If you want to tweak further, then start trying combinations.


----------



## Clayton SF

The **** Chair and the Woo Zoo.*
  Let's celebrate all things Woo and of course--
  Happy Mother's Day!
   
  * No Woo Audio Headphone Amps were harmed from spilled Champagne during this photo shoot.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, Clayton, that is pretty impressive. Very, very nice.


----------



## jc9394

Wow. Clayton, you even have the Woo4, that is very impressive. I will going to hunt you down on the week of 23th.


----------



## K_19

How is the Woo 4? Why was it discontinued in the first place? The 2 made it totally obsolete I guess?


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Your wish is my command...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> I have a WA22 and will be getting these replacement tubes from Jack soon :
> *Power tubes upgrade:*Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
> *Driver tubes upgrade:*Hand-pick matched pair Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT
> *Rectifier tube replacement: *Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier
> ...


 
   
  I have tried quite a few combos in my WA22 but am using the same combo right now that you have coming from Jack with my LCD-2 and like it quite a bit. It's the same combo that was used in the recent WA22 review from Positive Feedback, I bet it was recommended to them by Jack as well. I know that I didn't think of putting these tubes together until I read that review. The EML 5U4G and TSRPs are something special to be sure but this has become my favorite combo for the LCD-2.


----------



## grokit

By the way, I seem to be having a premature "senior moment" with a pair of 6SN7GT tubes in my possession, I have no idea what they really are or where I may have gotten them. I thought that they were the stock tubes that came with my buffer in this little box, and then I found those in another box. Could they be re-branded Tung Sols? I can't find a reference for this brand name. They say CONTINENTAL MADE IN U.S.A. in red letters on one side of the black base, and 6SN7 GT is stamped on the black glass on the other side inside a hexagon:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> By the way, I seem to be having a premature "senior moment" with a pair of 6SN7GT tubes in my possession, I have no idea what they really are or where I may have gotten them. I thought that they were the stock tubes that came with my buffer in this little box, and then I found those in another box. Could they be re-branded Tung Sols? I can't find a reference for this brand name. They say CONTINENTAL MADE IN U.S.A. in red letters on one side of the black base, and 6SN7 GT is stamped on the black glass on the other side inside a hexagon:


 

  
  It's after hours (0130 hrs)... savoring a pint of Dulce de leche (Haagen-Dazs)... with Shemekia Copeland's "Big Lovin' Woman" blasting thru the cans... and guessing what they might sound like. A quality tube at a discount? Let us know if you're on to something...


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have tried quite a few combos in my WA22 but am using the same combo right now that you have coming from Jack with my LCD-2 and like it quite a bit. It's the same combo that was used in the recent WA22 review from Positive Feedback, I bet it was recommended to them by Jack as well. I know that I didn't think of putting these tubes together until I read that review. The EML 5U4G and TSRPs are something special to be sure but this has become my favorite combo for the LCD-2.


 
  GREAT!!!
  This is exactly what I was hoping to hear (pun intended).
  I am finally releaved that these upgraded tubes will bring out the best or beast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in my LCD-2s.
  My other headphones were a good match with the stock tubes and my only complain was with the LCD-2, for which I was even considering an independant amp; Schiit Lyr being one of them.
  Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's after hours (0130 hrs)... savoring a pint of Dulce de leche (Haagen-Dazs)... with Shemekia Copeland's "Big Lovin' Woman" blasting thru the cans... and guessing what they might sound like. A quality tube at a discount? Let us know if you're on to something...


 

 Are you back in the Bay Area? I hope you are having a balanced meal (like Dulce de Leche with Coconut Cake) with those balanced cans of yours! When you have a chance swing by and try them out on the WA22. I'm also taking delivery of a Beta 22 in two weeks--but that's another story thread beast dessert amp.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow, Clayton, that is pretty impressive. Very, very nice.


 

 Thanks!
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow. Clayton, you even have the Woo4, that is very impressive. I will going to hunt you down on the week of 23th.


 
  No need to hunt--I'll give you my coordinates: I'm up the street from The Irish Bank. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Down the street from Grace. Up the street from the Gates. Down the street from the Mark. Up the street from Notre Dame....


----------



## grokit

I'm pretty sure that those tubes I just posted are real TSRPs, they look exactly like the tubes in this new eBay listing.
  Now the question is where the hell did I get them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Not that I'm complaining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Listening to _Cicadas_ off the Cowboy Junkies Renmin Park album repeatedly, the song is hard to describe but really shows off the LCD-2s out of the WA22. Okay I'll try: ethereal energy, deep rhythmic bass, haunting vocals, incredible soundstaging and fantastic sound quality. This whole album is really growing on me, not that I didn't find it appealing upon first listen. A bit of a departure from their usual mellow bluesy rock.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm pretty sure that those tubes I just posted are real TSRPs, they look exactly like the tubes in this new eBay listing.
> Now the question is where the hell did I get them
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I seem to be also having a premature "senior moment." I must have accidentally mailed them to you. Please return them to me at your convenience.


----------



## baka1969

I've been doing some A/B with the WA6SE and the WA2. I switched the WA6SE back to it's stock tubes to make the comparison as fair as possible since the WA2 I'm using has the stock tubes. Since the WA2 isn't mine I'm not going to spend lots of money rolling tubes. Returning to the stock tubes on the WA6SE made me realize, that even in stock form, it's still a great amp. So I'm sure I'm still getting the essential character of the WA2 with the stock tubes.

 The one thing I will say right now is, in my opinion, the WA2 isn't inherently better for the HD800 than the WA6SE. When I write review I'll get into more detail but the differences, so far, are not really a huge surprise and what you'd might expect. Like how the bass on the WA2 has a bit more impact with more bloom to it. The one thing that did somewhat surprise me is I think the vocals are a bit fuller on the 6SE.
 All said, I believe, off my initial impressions, the HD800 sounds pretty good out of both amps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Are you back in the Bay Area? I hope you are having a balanced meal (like Dulce de Leche with Coconut Cake) with those balanced cans of yours! When you have a chance swing by and try them out on the WA22. I'm also taking delivery of a Beta 22 in two weeks--but that's another story thread beast dessert amp.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


 

_I'm back baby_, _I'm back! _(Location: LAX, OAK). Very kind of you and mikemalter to look out for your fellow 'Woo Man.' I believe Robert is performing his wizardry on my cans this week; just a matter of time now. How excited could one man be? When I hear the roar of the UPS truck, _I'm going to run out the door like a scalded cat!_
   
  I too, have been thinking about building or having built a Beta 22. Can't a44ord it just yet but it must have 4 boards! Either that or scale up to a WA22. Either way, I'm getting ready. Great photographs you put up, by the way. After some burn-in, I'll see what you're up to after Memorial Day weekend passes for an appointment...er... "session." I think when I hear the first 45 seconds of Astrud Gilberto's "Non-Stop To Brazil" on your balanced rig,_ I'm going to die..._
   
  And Gal Costa's "Habib" may bring the silliest grin yet! I promise to keep the session short & tight, lest I forfeit my guest status in the future (hahaha)! But just thinking about the bass rifts in Weather Report's "Night Passage" & "125th St. Congress" has me giddy. And Herbie Hancock's "Chameleon" may have me apartment hunting in S.F. - location not important since The City is only 7 by 7 miles... I could be your neighbor anywhere.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _I'm back baby_, _I'm back! _(Location: LAX, OAK). Very kind of you and mikemalter to look out for your fellow 'Woo Man.' I believe Robert is performing his wizardry on my cans this week; just a matter of time now. How excited could one man be? When I hear the roar of the UPS truck, _I'm going to run out the door like a scalded cat!_
> 
> I too, have been thinking about building or having built a Beta 22. Can't a44ord it just yet but it must have 4 boards! Either that or scale up to a WA22. Either way, I'm getting ready. Great photographs you put up, by the way. After some burn-in, I'll see what you're up to after Memorial Day weekend passes for an appointment...er... "session." I think when I hear the first 45 seconds of Astrud Gilberto's "Non-Stop To Brazil" on your balanced rig,_ I'm going to die..._
> 
> And Gal Costa's "Habib" may bring the silliest grin yet! I promise to keep the session short & tight, lest I forfeit my guest status in the future (hahaha)! But just thinking about the bass rifts in Weather Report's "Night Passage" & "125th St. Congress" has me giddy. And Herbie Hancock's "Chameleon" may have me apartment hunting in S.F. - location not important since The City is only 7 by 7 miles... I could be your neighbor anywhere.


 

 Glad to hear you're back.  My espresso machine does not believe I know you, but it tell it, have patience.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





baka1969 said:


> I've been doing some A/B with the WA6SE and the WA2. I switched the WA6SE back to it's stock tubes to make the comparison as fair as possible since the WA2 I'm using has the stock tubes. Since the WA2 isn't mine I'm not going to spend lots of money rolling tubes. Returning to the stock tubes on the WA6SE made me realize, that even in stock form, it's still a great amp. So I'm sure I'm still getting the essential character of the WA2 with the stock tubes.
> 
> The one thing I will say right now is, in my opinion, the WA2 isn't inherently better for the HD800 than the WA6SE. When I write review I'll get into more detail but the differences, so far, are not really a huge surprise and what you'd might expect. Like how the bass on the WA2 has a bit more impact with more bloom to it. The one thing that did somewhat surprise me is I think the vocals are a bit fuller on the 6SE.
> All said, I believe, off my initial impressions, the HD800 sounds pretty good out of both amps.


 
   
   
  Yeah, that doesn't really surprise me.  Both very nice amps, after all


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Glad to hear you're back.  My espresso machine does not believe I know you, but it tell it, have patience.


 

 Your espresso machine is programmed for flavor, not rumors... "I seen him the other day with a companion, cafe side. Couldn't make out her whispers _but he was silent."  _Looking forward to meeting up with you soon as well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I rolled my black glass tung sols back into the amp for a bit recently and I gotta say, it's really hard to switch to anything else and enjoy it afterwards.  So balanced sounding, so much effortless inner detail, I'm just enamored every time I listen to them.  I've never heard a Mullard ECC32, but I can't picture in my mind a better, purer sound than the TSRP offers.  I think what amazes me most is that, once fully broken in, they are never harsh or sibilant.  Even on material that actually should sound so because of how it was recorded, yet they also provide the best clarity and resolution.  It's one of those rare win-wins that usually cannot co-exist.  Very happy I sprang for some..... it makes me sad that this tube is rapidly disappearing now.


----------



## Nova13

HELP! 
   
  I have had my WA3 for only a couple of weeks now and all was well.  I recently carefully pulled the tubes, packed everything in the original packaging, drove three hours to my Dad's house, hooked it all up as I had it at home, and now I experience very loud hum.  I have tried  different sources, different headphones, different outlets, different interconnects - nothing helped and the hum remained.  Note this is hum being output into the headphones, not transformer hum or anything like that.  Its so loud the music can only be slightly heard.
   
  It still remains when the source is off, and gets louder with increasing volume.  It does, however, go away when I unplug the interconnects from the source.  It seems weird that it would go away when the interconnects are disconnected, even when the source is off.  This occurred with two separate sources as well.
   
  To recap:  
  Source on with IC's hooked to amp: LOUD hum
  Source off with IC's hooked to amp: LOUD hum
  Source off with IC's disconnected from amp: silence.  Maybe this is not weird, my knowledge of this is limited - this is my first tube amp and I am new to this whole thing
  To reiterate, I have tried different sources, cans, outlets, IC's, nothing fixed the hum.  The hum is so  so loud.
   
  HELP! 
   
  What can I do?


----------



## Clayton SF

I recall that another Head-Fi'er packed up their Woo amp, took it with them on a car trip, and that car trip ended up disconnecting something in his amp that he had to send it back to Jack. It would seem highly unlikely that a car trip would harm your amp since you packed it up in its original packaging. If you're comfortable with opening up your amp I suggest that you do that to see if anything looks amiss. If you can't make heads or tails of it then take some detailed photos of the insides and email them to Jack and ask him if he sees anything unusual describing to him what you've described here. Good Luck.


----------



## grokit

Try a cheater plug to see if it makes a difference, that will help to narrow it down and may even fix it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> HELP!
> 
> I have had my WA3 for only a couple of weeks now and all was well.  I recently carefully pulled the tubes, packed everything in the original packaging, drove three hours to my Dad's house, hooked it all up as I had it at home, and now I experience very loud hum.  I have tried  different sources, different headphones, different outlets, different interconnects - nothing helped and the hum remained.  Note this is hum being output into the headphones, not transformer hum or anything like that.  Its so loud the music can only be slightly heard.
> 
> ...


 


  It definitely sounds like a grounding issue inside his home. During initial set up with my Woo, I faced the same issue but not as loudly. But nearly drove me insane thinking of the money invested and my new system was not dead silent. For a week I searched high and low... nuthin'!
   
  Week two, still clueless. Then, I decided I would seek help in this forum the following day. But later that night I decided to just unplug and plug everything - nope. And then my hand accidentally brushed up against the HDTV coax cable and then hum it went away. Took my hand away and the hum was back. And the HDTV box wasn't near the system.
   
  I rerouted the coax into my surge protector and back out to the HD box and voilà!


----------



## shipsupt

Not that anything you posted makes me think this is the problem, but do you have any other tubes to try, just to rule them out?





nova13 said:


> HELP!
> 
> I have had my WA3 for only a couple of weeks now and all was well.  I recently carefully pulled the tubes, packed everything in the original packaging, drove three hours to my Dad's house, hooked it all up as I had it at home, and now I experience very loud hum.  I have tried  different sources, different headphones, different outlets, different interconnects - nothing helped and the hum remained.  Note this is hum being output into the headphones, not transformer hum or anything like that.  Its so loud the music can only be slightly heard.
> 
> ...


----------



## the_equalizer

I would also try other interconnects. At least try reversing them (unplug the RCA's from the source output and plug them to the amp's inputs and viceversa) I've read of some interconnects that are only grounded at one end.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I rolled my black glass tung sols back into the amp for a bit recently and I gotta say, it's really hard to switch to anything else and enjoy it afterwards.  So balanced sounding, so much effortless inner detail, I'm just enamored every time I listen to them.  I've never heard a Mullard ECC32, but I can't picture in my mind a better, purer sound than the TSRP offers.  I think what amazes me most is that, once fully broken in, they are never harsh or sibilant.  Even on material that actually should sound so because of how it was recorded, yet they also provide the best clarity and resolution.  It's one of those rare win-wins that usually cannot co-exist.  Very happy I sprang for some..... it makes me sad that this tube is rapidly disappearing now.


 
  Yep that's right, as I learned with my WA6SE once you have found the right combo of tubes for your ears stick with it. imo the TSRP's are the best overall drive tubes, the only problem when I got my first pair of TSRP's was they prompted me to upgrade my power 300B tubes from my Shugang 50-Years Treasure 300B matched pair to the pair I have had now for about 1 year. 
  I should add that a week after getting my first pair of TSRP's (oval mica) and seeing that they where really a matched NOS pair and flawless, I ordered a second set from the same seller as a back up pair. They are safely tucked away and hopefully will not have to use them for a very long time, if ever.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I rolled my black glass tung sols back into the amp for a bit recently and I gotta say, it's really hard to switch to anything else and enjoy it afterwards.  So balanced sounding, so much effortless inner detail, I'm just enamored every time I listen to them.  I've never heard a Mullard ECC32, but I can't picture in my mind a better, purer sound than the TSRP offers.  I think what amazes me most is that, once fully broken in, they are never harsh or sibilant.  Even on material that actually should sound so because of how it was recorded, yet they also provide the best clarity and resolution.  It's one of those rare win-wins that usually cannot co-exist.  Very happy I sprang for some..... it makes me sad that this tube is rapidly disappearing now.


 


 I have both TSRP and Mullard ECC32 to roll in my WA22. I like the Mullards a bit more though. They both are definitely the best drive tubes with my set up. And yes, like you, I also made sure to get an additional pair of each..


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I should add that a week after getting my first pair of TSRP's (oval mica) and seeing that they where really a matched NOS pair and flawless, I ordered a second set from the same seller as a back up pair. They are safely tucked away and hopefully will not have to use them for a very long time, if ever.


 

 Ditto, I used the same seller as you and as you said, they were indeed perfect, so I got another pair from him.
  I also felt the same way about the seller who provided my Mullard ECC32s...perfect tubes / ordered another pair to put away.
   
  I agree with you about arriving at the best sound to ones ears. You get to a point where you don't need to roll anymore, but getting there in my case meant that there are a lot of nice NOS tubes in my wake that probably won't get used now.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Ditto, I used the same seller as you and as you said, they were indeed perfect, so I got another pair from him.
> I also felt the same way about the seller who provided my Mullard ECC32s...perfect tubes / ordered another pair to put away.
> 
> I agree with you about arriving at the best sound to ones ears. You get to a point where you don't need to roll anymore, but getting there in my case meant that there are a lot of nice NOS tubes in my wake that probably won't get used now.


 
  Hey John,
   
  Can you please PM me you source on ECC32?  I really want to try it out...


----------



## dminches

I contacted brandon at tube world and he didn't have any.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yep that's right, as I learned with my WA6SE once you have found the right combo of tubes for your ears stick with it. imo the TSRP's are the best overall drive tubes, the only problem when I got my first pair of TSRP's was they prompted me to upgrade my power 300B tubes from my Shugang 50-Years Treasure 300B matched pair to the pair I have had now for about 1 year.
> I should add that a week after getting my first pair of TSRP's (oval mica) and seeing that they where really a matched NOS pair and flawless, I ordered a second set from the same seller as a back up pair. They are safely tucked away and hopefully will not have to use them for a very long time, if ever.


 

 SS I agree.  Still trying to find a source for GEC 6AS7G's


----------



## Wedge

He generally has whatever is on his sight, has plenty of Chelmers, same thing.
  
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> I contacted brandon at tube world and he didn't have any.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Ditto, I used the same seller as you and as you said, they were indeed perfect, so I got another pair from him.
> I also felt the same way about the seller who provided my Mullard ECC32s...perfect tubes / ordered another pair to put away.
> 
> I agree with you about arriving at the best sound to ones ears. You get to a point where you don't need to roll anymore, but getting there in my case meant that there are a lot of nice NOS tubes in my wake that probably won't get used now.


 

 I may have a very good summer. Would you kindly provide me with contacts for both tubes? Thanks...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I may have a very good summer. Would you kindly provide me with contacts for both tubes? Thanks...


 

 @SilentOne...PM sent.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I have both TSRP and Mullard ECC32 to roll in my WA22. I like the Mullards a bit more though. They both are definitely the best drive tubes with my set up. And yes, like you, I also made sure to get an additional pair of each..


 
  I think you mixed me up with sillysally on that last part.  I could barely afford the first pair.    I am trying to get a backup pair though, at some point.  I won't really feel comfortable until I do.  They are nearly 70 years old, there is no guarantee they will live out their operational life normally at this point as some people here have already found out with early failures.


----------



## dminches

wedge said:


> He generally has whatever is on his sight, has plenty of Chelmers, same thing.




The Chelmers CV181s are the same as the Mullard ECC32s?


----------



## Wedge

Absolutely yes.  You just need to pick which pair you want, D Getter, Pan Getter, etc.
  
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> The Chelmers CV181s are the same as the Mullard ECC32s?


----------



## emremusic

Does anyone have good rectifier suggestion for my WA6SE?
   
  I kept going back and forth between Sophia princess and the stock rectifier I got with it labeled Electron Tube 274B. With the Electron tube my Woo sounded close to Total Bithead amp, flat, and muddy bass. 
   
  I want to get some back up tubes that will not cost as much a Sophia or EML. On page 619 in this thread Xcalibur recommended RCA 5R4GY.. Do you guys have any other suggestions?
   
  I ordered some tubes from tubedepot.com, I will get to compare them in a week....
   
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]5R4GY[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]SI-5AR4[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]5Z4
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]EH-5U4GB[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
  JJ-5U4GB
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]5R4WGB[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]5V4GA
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
   
[size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]Do you guys have any experience with the above tubes? Were any of the choices a total waste?[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]


----------



## Icenine2

Here's a real nice silver Woo WA2 with all the upgrades+tubes for sale at Audiogon  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1310158289&/Woo-Audio-WA2-pre/head-amp-wit


----------



## Icenine2

This one has all the BlackGate too.  That's not even offered any more.


----------



## Hi-Five

I usually run the RCA 5U4G as a great all-around rectifier in my wa6se.  The RCA 5R4GY is great too, maybe a little bit smoother though.
  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Does anyone have good rectifier suggestion for my WA6SE?
> 
> I kept going back and forth between Sophia princess and the stock rectifier I got with it labeled Electron Tube 274B. With the Electron tube my Woo sounded close to Total Bithead amp, flat, and muddy bass.
> 
> ...


----------



## PanamaRed

Update:
   
  Hi guys. I'm really enjoying my newly purchased WA-22. I've been having a blast listening to music through my LCD-2, HD800, and RS1.
   
  I'm interested about tube rolling but since i'm a complete novice I don't want to do anything to mess up my new toy.
   
  I went with my buddy to meet up with a guy he knows who is a real tube guru. I spoke at length with him and he talked about how most new tubes are inferior to vintage tubes because of things like impurities in the gas, etc.
   
  Anyways, to make a long story short I bought the following tubes and wanted to ask you guys if you thought they would be upgrades over stock tubes and if it is safe to plug the things into my heavy little tank of an amp.  He told me that all of the tubes are vintage stock (circa 1940s-1950s) Here are some pics:
   
  Sylvania 6SN7
   




   
  RCA 6080 (When I told him i needed 6080s for a headphone amp he looked at me like I was trying to harvest the power of a nuclear explosion)
   




   




   
  RCA 5U4GB
   




   
   
  P.S. A PM on how to properly post pictures on a forum would be much appreciated as well


----------



## mikemalter

Anybody know anything about the MINGDA MEIXING 6SN7 Vacuum tube?  There is a pair up on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180653898292&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:US:1123
   
  Was thinking about them, and they looked kind of trippy.
   
  thanks.


----------



## shipsupt

I love when the postman shows up with packages of tubes! And today he brought two packages!

Amongst the lot for my WA6SE:

A pair of Amperex 6EW7 fat bottles

An RCA 5U4GB with the Mcintosh logo on it. It says "Made for Mcintosh by RCA". A kind of novelty piece, but interested to hear it. It looks like it was built yesterday! Very clean.

And a pair I've been eagerly awaiting, Tung-Sol 6DE7! This is the first of two pairs I tracked down.

I'd post a pic or two but I'm also setting up my replacement iMac which arrived today as well. My old one gave out earlier this week... At least I can roll some new tubes while I do the restore!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Anybody know anything about the MINGDA MEIXING 6SN7 Vacuum tube?  There is a pair up on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180653898292&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:US:1123
> 
> Was thinking about them, and they looked kind of trippy.
> 
> thanks.


 

 Man, that's spacey! I wonder if they could coexist side by side in a 6-Special Edition?! If you _must_ have them, we _must_ learn of your trip to outer space during your listening session. They definitely look fun. Compared to you and shipsupt's weekend, my own is shaping up to be rather ordinary. Post weekend is whole 'nuther story! I've some goodies coming Monday from AphroditeCu29...


----------



## Icenine2

Those are some funky looking tubes!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Update:
> 
> Hi guys. I'm really enjoying my newly purchased WA-22. I've been having a blast listening to music through my LCD-2, HD800, and RS1.
> 
> ...


 

 The Sylvania 6SN7s were a good score, those are great sounding tubes.  You should try a 6AS7G in your power tube sockets though, many people feel they are better than the 6080.  An RCA made pair shouldn't cost any more than the 6080 did.  The RCA made 5U4G has a good reputation, but I haven't heard one personally.  I believe that an amp like the WA22 deserves to have an Emission Labs rectifier paired with it eventually, but working your way there can be a good and rewarding thing too.  If you would like a decent preview of what a good 274B tube sounds (assuming your amp didn't come stock with a Shuguang 274B) like give an RCA 5R4GY a spin as well.  They can be found for cheap.  Heck even if you have the Shuguang I'd still try one, it will probably sound better than the shuggie.  The Brimar version is better still (actually much better IMO), but quite a bit more expensive and rare.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Update:
> 
> Hi guys. I'm really enjoying my newly purchased WA-22. I've been having a blast listening to music through my LCD-2, HD800, and RS1.
> 
> ...


 

 First, if you have not already done so, be sure to read Jack's Tube compatability chart: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
   
  I think the tubes that you got should be fine. I have only had my WA22 since December, and I am also new to the tube world, but I have invested in quite a few vintage NOS tubes that have great reputations. My advise is to be patient and enjoy the search for the "right" tubes for your ears.
   
  IMO, the 6080 are actually low on power for the headphones that you have. I use TS7236 or TS5998 for power. I just got some Tung Sol 6520s (6AS7) and although they are wonderful tubes and are extremely quiet (noise), I still prefer the TS 7236 and 5998 because of the amplification factor.


----------



## Golfnutz

Panama, I'm going to offer some different advise based on the equipment you've listed and will assume money doesn't seem to be a factor (if you're looking to get the most potential from your setup).
   
  If you haven't read it, Xcalibur did a nice write-up on page 618.
   
  To be honest, I doubt you'll hear much difference between the tubes you just purchased and the stock tubes from Woo Audio.
   
  Start with the best. As mentioned previously, EML 5U4G. TS 5998 or TS 7236 (or other brands, but 5998 or 7236). TS 6SN7GT BGRP or Mullard ECC32, also consider the Shuguang  Treasures for your LCD-2's. This will become your reference point. If you want to start looking at alternatives, at least you'll be able to compare it to the best and make your decisions based on that. The price of the better tubes is rapidly increasing (NOS), and the longer you wait, the more you're going to pay. Many of the posts here mention how guy's are starting to hoard their tubes.
   
  I also recommend reading some of the other threads that only discuss the tubes themselves.
   
  Good Luck!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Start with the best. As mentioned previously, EML 5U4G. TS 5998 or TS 7236 (or other brands, but 5998 or 7236). TS 6SN7GT BGRP or Mullard ECC32, also consider the Shuguang  Treasures for your LCD-2's. This will become your reference point. If you want to start looking at alternatives, at least you'll be able to compare it to the best and make your decisions based on that. The price of the better tubes is rapidly increasing (NOS), and the longer you wait, the more you're going to pay.


 
  Agreed, the price for the better tubes *is* rapidly increasing. Additionally, when I find a tube or a pair of tubes that I really like, it then becomes necessary (in my mind) to search for a spare set.
   
  After I read your post, I took a look at the list of tubes that I have purchased to date. I got the WA22 in December and since then (to my great surprise), I have spent over $7K on high quality NOS tubes. I didn't realise this until I added it all up.
   
  My point here is that I agree with your advise: get the best tubes that you can afford now. Working your way "up" to the best NOS can be expensive.
   
  My recomendations for the WA22 are as follows.
   
*Driver: Mullard ECC32 or Tung Sol 6SN7GT bgrp (oval plates)*
*Rectifier: EML 5U4G Mesh Plate or Mullard GZ37/CV378*
*Power: Tung Sol 5998 or Tung Sol 7236*


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Agreed, the price for the better tubes *is* rapidly increasing. Additionally, when I find a tube or a pair of tubes that I really like, it then becomes necessary (in my mind) to search for a spare set.
> 
> After I read your post, I took a look at the list of tubes that I have purchased to date. I got the WA22 in December and since then (to my great surprise), *I have spent over $7K on high quality NOS tubes.* I didn't realise this until I added it all up.
> 
> ...


 

 Holy smokes, I thought I was bad! How much have you spent on the crappy ones?





   
  Anyhow I find that tube selection with the WA22 works out best if the headphone to be used is a part of the consideration.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *nututubes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I got the WA22 in December and since then (to my great surprise), I have spent over $7K on high quality NOS tubes. I didn't realise this until I added it all up.


 

 Holy jumpin'. Might I suggest that it's time to change your screen name?


----------



## Golfnutz

Oh man, I just started laughing pretty hard out loud. Good one!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Holy smokes, I thought I was bad! How much have you spent on the crappy ones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, the headphone is an essential part of the equation. I should have mentioned that these observations are for my Senn HD800s. I don't have other phones...do people "roll" headphones too?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Holy jumpin'. Might I suggest that it's time to change your screen name?


 

 maybe toomanytubes?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Agreed, the price for the better tubes *is* rapidly increasing. Additionally, when I find a tube or a pair of tubes that I really like, it then becomes necessary (in my mind) to search for a spare set.
> 
> After I read your post, I took a look at the list of tubes that I have purchased to date. I got the WA22 in December and since then (to my great surprise), I have spent over $7K on high quality NOS tubes. I didn't realise this until I added it all up.
> 
> ...


 

 The good news is that these tubes can almost be considered an investment (that's how I justify my purchases). As long as some manufacture doesn't come along and develop something that's going to sound just as good or better then NOS ones.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> The good news is that these tubes can almost be _*considered an investment*_ (that's how I justify my purchases). As long as some manufacture doesn't come along and develop something that's going to sound just as good or better then NOS ones.


 

 And just as long as you're willing to part with them so that you can sell them. Some NOS tubes can be really hard to let go, yah know.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Agreed, the price for the better tubes *is* rapidly increasing. Additionally, when I find a tube or a pair of tubes that I really like, it then becomes necessary (in my mind) to search for a spare set.
> 
> After I read your post, I took a look at the list of tubes that I have purchased to date. I got the WA22 in December and since then (to my great surprise), I have spent over $7K on high quality NOS tubes. I didn't realise this until I added it all up.
> 
> ...


 

 Just got a matched pair of the Tung Sol 7236 on eBay.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got a matched pair of the Tung Sol 7236 on eBay.


 
  U Lucky Dawg, U ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got a matched pair of the Tung Sol 7236 on eBay.


 

 Pretty sure I know which ones.  I grabbed some 5998 from that seller for....... future needs.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They really looked like a pristine and beautiful pair of tubes, I was tempted myself but I just can't see the 7236 being my cup of tea given its reputation.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Pretty sure I know which ones.  I grabbed some 5998 from that seller for....... future needs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I got the 7236 to try them because Nutotubes likes them.  I'm watching a couple of TS5998 auctions as well.  Getting back into the game after my DAC and network streaming media fiasco.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I like GEC 6AS7G better than TS5998 with HD800 and D7000.  Haven't tried the TS with the LCD2 yet.


----------



## Dennis

Join WA owners Unite!    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I got the 7236 to try them because Nutotubes likes them. I'm watching a couple of TS5998 auctions as well. Getting back into the game after my DAC and network streaming media fiasco.


 

  
  Try the Sylvania 7236. They are much better than TS7236, especially the Bass as well as the smoothness of mid-range.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I like GEC 6AS7G better than TS5998 with HD800 and D7000.  Haven't tried the TS with the LCD2 yet.


 

 Also snagged a TS5998 today.  I can try all three now.  I have a backup pair of the GEC 6AS7G's, but want to reach out and hear what else is out there.  To date the GEC 6AS7G's are the best power tubes to my tastes.
   
  I like the HD800 better than the LCD2.  However, I can now understand why people like the LCD2 as it has a nice rich organic sound.  Are you listening mostly with the LCD2 these days?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dennis said:


> Join WA owners Unite!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for the tip, Dennis.  I have a pair of the Sylvania 7236's.  I find them a bit rough with the HD800's, but with the LCD2's they are a little better, but still too rough for my tastes.  Have you had the opportunity to try a pair of the GEC 6AS7G's?  Are you running a WA2?  I'll bet that the Sylvania 7236's sound different in the WA22 than the WA2.  It would be interesting to hear a WA2 sometime.


----------



## dannie01

That's why I sold my WA22 but keep the TS BGRP (for the WA5LE) and GEC 6AS7 (who knows when I will need them again, they're very hard to find today). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I like GEC 6AS7G better than TS5998 with HD800 and D7000.  Haven't tried the TS with the LCD2 yet.


 


   


  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Also snagged a TS5998 today.  I can try all three now.  I have a backup pair of the GEC 6AS7G's, but want to reach out and hear what else is out there.  To date the GEC 6AS7G's are the best power tubes to my tastes.
> 
> I like the HD800 better than the LCD2.  However, I can now understand why people like the LCD2 as it has a nice rich organic sound.  Are you listening mostly with the LCD2 these days?


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> That's why I sold my WA22 but keep the TS BGRP (for the WA5LE) and GEC 6AS7 (who knows when I will need them again, they're very hard to find today).




I would do the same if I ever sell the WA22 but that is a very slim chance.


----------



## emremusic

Do you guys know what the life expactany of tubes are in woo amps? woo6se especially?


----------



## jc9394

It depends, I have a NOS 6EW7 last over 1000 hours but one pair of 6FD7 only last couple hours. The average should be over 500 hours if you take care of them.


----------



## emremusic

So I guess rectifiers last longer than power tubes?


----------



## jc9394

Not necessary, I just gave those as example.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The woo audio website claims 9000 hours for drive tubes and 5000 hours for "larger" tubes (doesn't specify if he means power or rectifier) under ideal conditions.  Those numbers feel a bit optimistic to me, but if the tubes are well within their operating ranges several thousand hours is supposed to be normal.  What toll the constant warm up and cool down from being used in this application takes is a big question though.


----------



## Wedge

Yeah I was going to say several hundred hours sounds a little light.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  (Silent One quietly searches for the queue 'WA22 Certified Pre-Owned' and enters. Then begins to calculate... "Length of queue... time needed for savings... _hmmm, not bad!_")


----------



## Dennis

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thanks for the tip, Dennis.  I have a pair of the Sylvania 7236's.  I find them a bit rough with the HD800's, but with the LCD2's they are a little better, but still too rough for my tastes.  Have you had the opportunity to try a pair of the GEC 6AS7G's?  Are you running a WA2?  I'll bet that the Sylvania 7236's sound different in the WA22 than the WA2.  It would be interesting to hear a WA2 sometime.


 

 It's a maxxed WA2 with Tung Sol EZ81, Sylvania 7236 and Amperex PQ 6922.
   
  So far I hv tried GEC 6AS7G's, TS5998, TS7236 as well as Sylvania7236.
   
  The TS7236 and Sylvania7236 sound the best among those four.
   
  TS7236 has a wider soundstage with better treble extention while the Sylvania7236 sounds obviously more bassy and solid.


----------



## bergnerm

I think my WA2 is now fully broken in, with a couple of hundred hours air time with my HD 800. I'm still extremely impressed with this amp (listening to Norah Jones–Come Away With Me at the moment). I'm glad I got the blackgate upgrades before they were pulled. I can't opine much on comparisons with different configurations, since I have a very limited exposure to other amps, but it's difficult for me to imagine a system that would sound much better.
   
  Sadly, I now realize that at least half, or more, of my music collection, even ripped to flac files, really does not benefit from such a killer system. One would expect my 1920s recordings of Fats Waller to benefit little from an awesome headphone listening system such as this... but it is a bit disappointing that many other recordings in my collection are of such limited quality (now clearly recognizable). But... for the recordings that are first rate, HOLY COW, does this config make them shine! Even my non-audiophile friends and family say "WOW" when I put on a properly rendered tune (I like to play the freebie HDTracks Rimsky-Korsakov "Snow Maiden").
   
  I know most of the discussions here are related to tube rolling, but I'm entirely happy with the upgraded tubes suggested by Jack. My big question for upgrade (in the 2K range) is, do I upgrade my DAC (I'm currently using a NuForce Icon HDP... very happy with) (and if so, any suggestions) or, as some have suggested in this thread, purchase some T1 cans (which apparently pair perfectly with the WA2)? <Sigh> I knew getting involved with this website would result in fiscal irresponsibility!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dennis said:


> It's a maxxed WA2 with Tung Sol EZ81, Sylvania 7236 and Amperex PQ 6922.
> 
> So far I hv tried GEC 6AS7G's, TS5998, TS7236 as well as Sylvania7236.
> 
> ...


 


 Two questions.
   
  When you are describing your listening, are you talking through headphones or speakers?
   
  What did you do with your GEC 6AS7G's, do you still have them?


----------



## Dennis

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Two questions.
> 
> When you are describing your listening, are you talking through headphones or speakers?
> 
> What did you do with your GEC 6AS7G's, do you still have them?


 

  
   
  Both headphones and speakers~   (but mainly headphones)
   
  I sold my GEC 6AS7G's a few weeks be4.....


----------



## MacedonianHero

dennis said:


> Join WA owners Unite!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have both the Sylvania and Tung-Sol 7236s and I prefer the TS's more overall smooth signature. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## dannie01

The Mullard ECC32 arrived today, they are in smoked glass, round plate with copper grid pin, look very sexy. Very exciting and costly tubes, these Mullard are the most expensive tubes I ever got, they cost even more than the pair GEC 6AS7 that I bought for the WA22. I will plug them in the WA5LE tonight after work and let it run-in for several hrs, see what kind of magic that most people praised with these genies will sound, and pics will follow. Bless me the tubes will work well without problem.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It is definitely a little nerve wracking when you pick up a very expensive pair of tubes.  Makes a guy feel like he is gambling in a strange sort of way.  I get the same feeling whenever I am cleaning pins on a new purchase too, fearing I'll break something I just paid a bunch for.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The Mullard ECC32 arrived today, they are in smoked glass, round plate with copper grid pin, look very sexy. Very exciting and costly tubes, these Mullard are the most expensive tubes I ever got, they cost even more than the pair GEC 6AS7 that I bought for the WA22. I will plug them in the WA5LE tonight after work and let it run-in for several hrs, see what kind of magic that most people praised with these genies will sound, and pics will follow. Bless me the tubes will work well without problem.


 
   
  Hope all goes well for you and your new ECC32 tubes.
   
  As I am sure you know the the maximum plate/anode voltage for ECC32 is 300V versus 450V for 6SN7GT, so it is for that reason why I would not use the ECC32 because of my HE6's. I am not saying they would not work with the HE6 headphone I am just saying for me it would be to much of a gamble, particularly because I love the way my WA5LE sounds now with my HE6's plugged into the low imp jack.
   
  I have been playing with my Realiser A8 and trying to find the holy grail of HPEQ for my HE6's, the interesting thing is by moving the ear mic's in and out of my ear canals will change some/slightly of the sound characteristics of the sound.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It is definitely a little nerve wracking when you pick up a very expensive pair of tubes.  Makes a guy feel like he is gambling in a strange sort of way.  I get the same feeling whenever I am cleaning pins on a new purchase too, fearing I'll break something I just paid a bunch for.


 

 That's exactly what I feel, my friend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   


  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Hope all goes well for you and your new ECC32 tubes.
> 
> As I am sure you know the the maximum plate/anode voltage for ECC32 is 300V versus 450V for 6SN7GT, so it is for that reason why I would not use the ECC32 because of my HE6's. I am not saying they would not work with the HE6 headphone I am just saying for me it would be to much of a gamble, particularly because I love the way my WA5LE sounds now with my HE6's plugged into the low imp jack.


 






 Would you elaborate more about the differ of " the the maximum plate/anode voltage for ECC32 is 300V versus 450V for 6SN7GT " in the WA5LE? I read that these tubes make very nice sound from the TS RPBG and I put my bet on them. Thanks, ss.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Was thinking about them, and they looked kind of trippy.


 
   
  Did you pull the trigger on these? I'm hoping that you'll take one for the team here!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's exactly what I feel, my friend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 Didn't mean to scare you, its just what I have read form the spects so I don't think they are a direct replacement for the 6SN7's. I don't know how they will perform in the WA5LE, because I have never had a pair.
  I think musicman59 has a pair of the ECC32's and he likes them, so if that is the case then you should be just fine with your new tubes.


----------



## dannie01

Thanks anyway, ss.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Didn't mean to scare you, its just what I have read form the spects so I don't think they are a direct replacement for the 6SN7's. I don't know how they will perform in the WA5LE, because I have never had a pair.
> I think musicman59 has a pair of the ECC32's and he likes them, so if that is the case then you should be just fine with your new tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> I think my WA2 is now fully broken in, with a couple of hundred hours air time with my HD 800. I'm still extremely impressed with this amp (listening to Norah Jones–Come Away With Me at the moment). I'm glad I got the blackgate upgrades before they were pulled. I can't opine much on comparisons with different configurations, since I have a very limited exposure to other amps, but it's difficult for me to imagine a system that would sound much better.
> 
> Sadly, I now realize that at least half, or more, of my music collection, even ripped to flac files, really does not benefit from such a killer system. One would expect my 1920s recordings of Fats Waller to benefit little from an awesome headphone listening system such as this... but it is a bit disappointing that many other recordings in my collection are of such limited quality (now clearly recognizable). But... for the recordings that are first rate, HOLY COW, does this config make them shine! Even my non-audiophile friends and family say "WOW" when I put on a properly rendered tune (I like to play the freebie HDTracks Rimsky-Korsakov "Snow Maiden").
> 
> I know most of the discussions here are related to tube rolling, but I'm entirely happy with the upgraded tubes suggested by Jack. My big question for upgrade (in the 2K range) is, do I upgrade my DAC (I'm currently using a NuForce Icon HDP... very happy with) (and if so, any suggestions) or, as some have suggested in this thread, purchase some T1 cans (which apparently pair perfectly with the WA2)? <Sigh> I knew getting involved with this website would result in fiscal irresponsibility!


 

  
  Should your WA2 (w/Black Gates) be fully broken in at 200 hours, then you just established a new Woo Audio World Record! As you sail blissfully toward the 500-700 hour horizon, you're going to be pleasantly surprised...


----------



## dannie01

The chart below is linked by nututubes on page 659 about "Jack's Tube compatability chart" for all you guys' reference. Thanks, John.
   
  I've tried to re-work in an excel file then c&p again here but no clue the grid lines are all disappeared. For anyone wants to have accurate chart for tubes, please see this LINK.
   
   

 Tube Compatibility Chart           Tube Compatibility Chart for Woo Audio Amplifier www.WooAudio.com   The following chart is a limited survey of tube compatibility for all Woo Audio amplifiers. These tube models are direct substitute without having the need to modify the unit. They have been verified so you can use them safely on your amplifier. Some of the tubes require tube adaptor to work properly.   Please fill out this form if you know any tube missing from the chart,. We will verify it and update the chart accordingly. https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDQ2X18zUTRGc2JDazIyYnNMWnRnbkE6MQ Warning: this chart applies to the Woo Audio products only. Please consult your amplifier's maker for verification.           Model Vacuum Tube Adapter Comment     6922 * No       6DJ8 No       6N1P No       7308 No   WA2 / WA3 Driver E188CC No       E88CC No       E288CC No       ECC88 No       CCa No       EZ80 * No       6CA4 No   WA2 Rectifier 6V4 No       EZ81 No       U709 No       6080 * No       421A No Greater power. Western Electric branded.     5998 No Greater power     6AS7 No   WA2 / WA3 / WA22 Power 6H13C No       6N5P No       7236 No Greater power     2399 No       6520 No       6SN7 * /GT /WGT No       5692 No       6CG7 Yes A 9-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed.     6F8G Yes A 8-pin to 8-pin adapter with Grid wire is needed. WA22 / WA5 / WA5LE Driver 7N7 Yes A 8-pin to 8-pin loctal adapter is needed.     CV181 No       CV1988 No       ECC32 No       VT231 No       5U4G * /B No Directly Heated     274A Yes Directly Heated, a 4-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed.     274B No Directly Heated     53KU No Directly Heated     5AR4 No Indirectly Heated     5AS4 No Directly Heated     5Z4 No Indirectly Heated     5R4 /GA /GB /GY /GYA /GYB /WGA /WGB No Directly Heated     5U3C No Directly Heated WA22 / WA5 / WA5LE Rectifier 5V4 /G /GA No Directly Heated WA6 / WA6SE   5Y3 No Directly Heated     5Z3 Yes Directly Heated, a 8-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed.     GZ30 No Indirectly Heated     GZ32 No Indirectly Heated     GZ33 No Indirectly Heated     GZ34 No Indirectly Heated     GZ37 No Indirectly Heated     CV378 No Indirectly Heated     U52 No Indirectly Heated     U54 No Directly Heated     6DE7 * No       6CY7 No WA6-SE shipped prior April 17, 2010 is not compatible.     6EW7 No   WA6 / WA6SE Driver/Power 6EM7 Yes A 8-pin to 9-pin adapter is needed.     6DR7 No WA6-SE shipped prior April 17, 2010 is not compatible.     6DN7 Yes A 8-pin to 9-pin adapter is needed.     6FD7 No WA6-SE shipped prior April 17, 2010 is not compatible.     6SN7 Yes For WA6 only. A 8-pin to 9-pin adapter is needed.     5692 Yes For WA6 only. A 8-pin to 9-pin adapter is needed.     WE 300B * No       EML 300B / XLS No       Treasure 300B No       Sophia 300B No   WA5 / WA5LE 300B Power Tube EAT 300B No       EH 300B No       JJ 300B No       Shuguang 300B No       Svetlana 300B No       Takatsuki 300B No       6SL7 * No                 6188/6SU7 No Tungsol branded only   Driver 12AX7 Yes A 9-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed.     CV1985 No       ECC35 No       VT229 No       EL34 * No     Power 6CA7 No       KT88 No       5AR4 * No Indirectly Heated WES   5Z4 No Indirectly Heated     GZ30 No Indirectly Heated   Rectifier GZ32 No Indirectly Heated     GZ33 No Indirectly Heated     GZ34 No Indirectly Heated     GZ37 No Indirectly Heated     U54 No Indirectly Heated     12AU7 * No       ECC82 No       ECC802S No     Phase Splitter 5814 No       5963 No       6189 No       7316 No       12AX7 * No       ECC83 No       ECC803S No       12BZ7 No   GES Driver 12AD7 No       5751 No       7025 No       7058 No       B339 No     Power 6S4 * No             * This is the label engraved on the unit.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The Mullard ECC32 arrived today, they are in smoked glass, round plate with copper grid pin, look very sexy. Very exciting and costly tubes, these Mullard are the most expensive tubes I ever got, they cost even more than the pair GEC 6AS7 that I bought for the WA22. I will plug them in the WA5LE tonight after work and let it run-in for several hrs, see what kind of magic that most people praised with these genies will sound, and pics will follow. Bless me the tubes will work well without problem.


 


  Congrats! And by the way, the collective sigh of relief rushing in from overseas will be from all of us here, not a Tsunami!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I bet your Mullards are drop dead gorgeous, do send a photo!


----------



## Wedge

@dannie01 - The ECC32 work in my WA-5, so far without a problem.  I use them in both the WA-5 and WA-22.


----------



## nututubes

dannie01 said:


> The Mullard ECC32 arrived today, they are in smoked glass, round plate with copper grid pin, look very sexy. Very exciting and costly tubes, these Mullard are the most expensive tubes I ever got, they cost even more than the pair GEC 6AS7 that I bought for the WA22. I will plug them in the WA5LE tonight after work and let it run-in for several hrs, see what kind of magic that most people praised with these genies will sound, and pics will follow. Bless me the tubes will work well without problem.




Hello Dannie and congrats on your ECC32 purcahse.
I got my first set from the same seller, and they are perfect. He used excellent packaging materials, so I think they will arrive in perfect condition. He also has an excellent seller rating. I got some TS5998 and a Mullard CV378 from him also. Quality tubes, packaged perfectly. I'm waiting for my spare pair from him right now. I bought mine a few days after you.

Jack's tube compatability chart gives me assurance that this tube will work fine. I have about 20 hours on mine now. I can't take them out


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The Mullard ECC32 arrived today, they are in smoked glass, round plate with copper grid pin, look very sexy. Very exciting and costly tubes, these Mullard are the most expensive tubes I ever got, they cost even more than the pair GEC 6AS7 that I bought for the WA22. I will plug them in the WA5LE tonight after work and let it run-in for several hrs, see what kind of magic that most people praised with these genies will sound, and pics will follow. Bless me the tubes will work well without problem.


 

 Hope your experience is the same as Nututubes.  I'd love to see photos and hear your impressions.  I'm on the tail end of that supply train and am waiting for my pair.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Did you pull the trigger on these? I'm hoping that you'll take one for the team here!


 

 Grokit, I almost bought them.  I sent an email to Jack and asked him what he thought of them from a technical perspective.  He said they would be find technically, but not very high on the performance scale.  I really appreciated his answer.  I'm following Nututubes breadcrumb trail and trying out some of his power tube selections.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The Mullard ECC32 arrived today, they are in smoked glass, round plate with copper grid pin, look very sexy. Very exciting and costly tubes, these Mullard are the most expensive tubes I ever got, they cost even more than the pair GEC 6AS7 that I bought for the WA22. I will plug them in the WA5LE tonight after work and let it run-in for several hrs, see what kind of magic that most people praised with these genies will sound, and pics will follow. Bless me the tubes will work well without problem.


 


  Congrats Danny, I'm sure you will love them.  Please please don't tell me how much better than the TS BGRP, I can not afford it ATM...


----------



## dannie01

Thanks you very much, buddies. They arrived in perfect condition and just have them plugged in the WA5LE, they are DEAD SILENT, none microphonic at all. Without any burn-in, only have the tubes warm a bit then listen, they are more gain than all 6SN7 types. I have the knob dail about 2/3 to reach the normal listening level. No detail impression in the mean while since only 15mins with the amp but first impression is really good, the highs are more noticeable detal in LCD-2 (maybe I can save some money for the aftermarket cable that I want to opens up the highs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and mid is a bit bright right now. Need more burn-in. 

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats! And by the way, the collective sigh of relief rushing in from overseas will be from all of us here, not a Tsunami!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks and yes, you're dam* right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> @dannie01 - The ECC32 work in my WA-5, so far without a problem.  I use them in both the WA-5 and WA-22.


 

 Hey, Wedge. Thanks for your info.
   
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Hello Dannie and congrats on your ECC32 purcahse.
> I got my first set from the same seller, and they are perfect. He used excellent packaging materials, so I think they will arrive in perfect condition. He also has an excellent seller rating. I got some TS5998 and a Mullard CV378 from him also. Quality tubes, packaged perfectly. I'm waiting for my spare pair from him right now. I bought mine a few days after you.
> 
> Jack's tube compatability chart gives me assurance that this tube will work fine. I have about 20 hours on mine now. I can't take them out


 
   
  Agree, the seller is excellent. He sent the tubes fast and the package is exceptional. BTW, the chart is very useful for those who wanna make sure wgich tube can use in which Woo's amp, thanks again.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hope your experience is the same as Nututubes.  I'd love to see photos and hear your impressions.  I'm on the tail end of that supply train and am waiting for my pair.


 

 Nututubes is very
   

      Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Grokit, I almost bought them.  I sent an email to Jack and asked him what he thought of them from a technical perspective.  He said they would be find technically, but not very high on the performance scale.  I really appreciated his answer.  I'm following Nututubes breadcrumb trail and trying out some of his power tube selections.


 

 Frankly, I can grad them much cheaper here in HK but............................................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am following Nututubes breadcrumg tail, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




      Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Congrats Danny, I'm sure you will love them.  Please please don't tell me how much better than the TS BGRP, I can not afford it ATM...


 
   
  Thank, John. But I pretty sure you know thw answer already, hahahaha.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks you very much, buddies. They arrived in perfect condition and just have them plugged in the WA5LE, they are DEAD SILENT, none microphonic at all. Without any burn-in, only have the tubes warm a bit then listen, they are more gain than all 6SN7 types. I have the knob dail about 2/3 to reach the normal listening level. No detail impression in the mean while since only 15mins with the amp but first impression is really good, the highs are more noticeable detal in LCD-2 (maybe I can save some money for the aftermarket cable that I want to opens up the highs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are EVIL, my wife will kill me...


----------



## dannie01

Pics following, they look very sexy in smoked glass.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ It looks like the pair of ECC32s are flanked by 300B bodyguards!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Look out!
  You Rock, dannie01. And of course so does your WA5LE!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ It looks like the pair of ECC32s are flanked by 300B bodyguards!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, Clayton. Oops, you're right, the 300B look like the bodyguards of the ECC32s.


----------



## jeust0999

nice pictures, thanks for sharing.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Pics following, they look very sexy in smoked glass.


 

 You are not helping here, I want a pair so bad...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You are not helping here, I want a pair so bad...


 

 You know where to get yourself a pair..............................


----------



## jc9394

I should block head-fi on my firewall...


----------



## flaming_june

And then donate me your WA22 after maybe?
   
  Man those tubes are so expensive.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> And then donate me your WA22 after maybe?
> 
> Man those tubes are so expensive.


 

 Let me think about it... hummm, the answer is NO.  I will never sell them unless Jack cooked up a balanced version of WA5...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let me think about it... hummm, the answer is NO.  I will never sell them unless Jack cooked up a balanced version of WA5...


 

 I wish he would come up with that one.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I should block head-fi on my firewall...


 


  That is too funny. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Come down to the Cape and have a listen for free! I'm in New Bedford.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I should block head-fi on my firewall...


 

 BTW it's called self control bro!


----------



## Wedge

Dannie grats on getting some very pretty looking and sounding tubes (at least IMO).  Do you know which Getter you got?  Funny we both seem to use the same output tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Dannie grats on getting some very pretty looking and sounding tubes (at least IMO).  Do you know which Getter you got?  Funny we both seem to use the same output tube.


 

 Forgive me for asking but how does the shape of the getter affect the sound of a tube?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very sharp looking dannie, even the glass printing is pristine.  For the moment I cannot be tempted by these thank goodness (no compatibility with WA6), but knowing they work in the WA22 I'm saving to buy makes me drool at the sight of them nevertheless.    I'd love to hear your thoughts on how these compare to the TSRP once they have a few hours on them.  I'm pretty madly in love with the TSRP these days so I can't imaging they can be improved on by much.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Forgive me for asking but how does the shape of the getter affect the sound of a tube?


 


  I believe they are using it to trace vintage, following the old tube adage that older is better.  Supposedly the Mullards were more consistent through the years than US made tubes were, so claim many sellers, and you can safely venture into the 60's and still get a fine sounding pair.


----------



## Wedge

It was more of a curious question, as there have been some suggestion in difference in sound between the various versions of the ECC32.


----------



## Silent One

_Flying high._
   
  Today, I was flying so high! My new Silver Starlight interconnect and Denon D7000 + Zeus22 4x22 AWG XLR (Balanced) arrived. Unboxing brought on a smile so warm, even I was suspicious!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Turning to my WA6SE, I shared this smile. The tubes now aglow, the unit smiled back.
   
  Made some lunch and returned in 60 minutes. Still giddy, queued a handful of tracks for sampling and slipped underneath the cans. I gently raised the volume and... _nothing. _Apparently, the new MHDT USbridge died while I was lunching, unaware.
   
  Troubleshooting revealed the coax output from the bridge is faulty, only 10 days old. Optical out from bridge to DAC is fine. Both coax and optical out from stand alone DVD player to DAC is fine. The bridge is being shipped tomorrow for an exchange.
   
  It's been two weeks getting my new system together but there it sits. Like a Jet grounded by fog @ SFO. And so, I wait... _silently._


----------



## Broken Arrow

i know exactly how you feel right now. 

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Flying high._
> 
> Today, I was flying so high! My new Silver Starlight interconnect and Denon D7000 + Zeus22 4x22 AWG XLR (Balanced) arrived. Unboxing brought on a smile so warm, even I was suspicious!
> 
> ...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Dannie grats on getting some very pretty looking and sounding tubes (at least IMO).  Do you know which Getter you got?  Funny we both seem to use the same output tube.


 


 Thanks but I did not aware which getter was on it.
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Forgive me for asking but how does the shape of the getter affect the sound of a tube?


 


 I want to know, too.
   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Very sharp looking dannie, even the glass printing is pristine.  For the moment I cannot be tempted by these thank goodness (no compatibility with WA6), but knowing they work in the WA22 I'm saving to buy makes me drool at the sight of them nevertheless.    I'd love to hear your thoughts on how these compare to the TSRP once they have a few hours on them.  I'm pretty madly in love with the TSRP these days so I can't imaging they can be improved on by much.


 


 Thanks and I will keep up-date after some burn-in. But initial impression is more detail in highs, a bit fatigue in mids and well control, tight in bass, seems a bit wider soundstage than RPBG with LCD-2. Need more time for breath like some good vintage wines do.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Flying high._
> 
> Today, I was flying so high! My new Silver Starlight interconnect and Denon D7000 + Zeus22 4x22 AWG XLR (Balanced) arrived. Unboxing brought on a smile so warm, even I was suspicious!
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry to hear your equipment fritzed out.  Hope you are up and running soonest!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks, Clayton. Oops, you're right, the 300B look like the bodyguards of the ECC32s.


 
   
  Now you are getting me nuts with your ECC32's and how they would sound with my HE6's and my WE300B's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I am very happy for you.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Now you are getting me nuts with your ECC32's and how they would sound with my HE6's and my WE300B's.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If I had a set of WE300B's, I'd compliment them with ECC32's if my amp was designed around those tubes. But then again--I don't have an amp that uses 300B's nor am I in possession of WE300B's. So all I can do is just sit and think of what I could have and think of the lucky people that do have.


----------



## Wedge

About the getter question I was merely just asking as a curious thing.  Some post I caught on some thread somewhere had eluded to sonic differences between the different versions with different getters, I have never really done a comparison against one another, I own a 2 pair of D Getters, and 2 pair of Flat Strip or pan, I forget.  In any event, I'm not sure of the differences in sonics if there are any, also not sure of why it would cause any difference in sonics.  My apologies for asking.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





wedge said:


> About the getter question I was merely just asking as a curious thing.  Some post I caught on some thread somewhere had eluded to sonic differences between the different versions with different getters, I have never really done a comparison against one another, I own a 2 pair of D Getters, and 2 pair of Flat Strip or pan, I forget.  In any event, I'm not sure of the differences in sonics if there are any, also not sure of why it would cause any difference in sonics.  My apologies for asking.


 


 No apologies needed, my friend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I actually with only very limited knowledge on tubes so that why I also asked what make the different, too. BTW, I really don't know what getter in on my pair.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sorry to hear your equipment fritzed out.  Hope you are up and running soonest!


 


  Thanks. ALO Audio is just up the road (Oregon). Maybe I'll get a seven day turn-a-round. All I know is that you love music. And if it were your boutique, you'd have given me an RMA. Shipped one to me while still on the phone. With the understanding I'd send the defective one back within seven days.
   
  That's the kind of turn-a-round I'm talkin' 'bout!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> If I had a set of WE300B's, I'd compliment them with ECC32's if my amp was designed around those tubes. But then again--I don't have an amp that uses 300B's nor am I in possession of WE300B's. So all I can do is just sit and think of what I could have and think of the lucky people that do have.


 
   
  You are funny, and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  But then again I guess I am also in the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 category. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

 The nice thing for me is I have a great wife but most all the accounts are in my name, so what she doesn't know can't make her mad.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> _*The nice thing for me is I have a great wife but most all the accounts are in my name, so what she doesn't know can't make her mad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Arh.......................that's my dream..................................or maybe our dream.............................you lucky man................................


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. ALO Audio is just up the road (Oregon). Maybe I'll get a seven day turn-a-round. All I know is that you love music. And if it were your boutique, you'd have given me an RMA. Shipped one to me while still on the phone. With the understanding I'd send the defective one back within seven days.
> 
> That's the kind of turn-a-round I'm talkin' 'bout!


 


  I had a business trip up to Portland recently and ended up working the whole time... was hoping to have a chance to stop into 32ohm (ALO) and check it out.  Probably good for my wallet  because I'm sure I'd have walked out with a Solo, ha...
   
  I'm already looking for another good excuse, I mean reason, to do some business up there soon.


----------



## sillysally

Well this is all very intresting about the ECC32's, and maybe a good match for my HE6's and WA5LE because of the ECC32's  50% higher current draw thus increasing the gain.
   
  My concern is that because of the higher current draw will that reduce the life of my transformers. You guys with the WA5/LE with the ECC32 do you notice any extra heat coming from the transformers?
   
   
   
  Thanks Dannie for your help and kind words, you little devil you.


----------



## dannie01

After plugged the ECC32 into the WA5LE for few hrs last night. Tried to feel the tempreture of the tubes and transformers by my hand. Of course the tubes are hot, I'm an idiot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the transformers are just normal as in use with 6SN7. Don't feel any hotter from the transformers.
   
  No problem and _*yeah, I know, jc also always remind me that.*_




  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well this is all very intresting about the ECC32's, and maybe a good match for my HE6's and WA5LE because of the ECC32's  50% higher current draw thus increasing the gain.
> 
> My concern is that because of the higher current draw will that reduce the life of my transformers. You guys with the WA5/LE with the ECC32 do you notice any extra heat coming from the transformers?
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I had a business trip up to Portland recently and ended up working the whole time... was hoping to have a chance to stop into 32ohm (ALO) and check it out.  Probably good for my wallet  because I'm sure I'd have walked out with a Solo, ha...
> 
> I'm already looking for another good excuse, I mean reason, to do some business up there soon.


 

 Next time I'm up that way, I'm goin' to walk in as well. Portland makes for a great weekend getaway already, but I wanna play with the goodies. By chance, did you (or any of the other LCD-2 wearing 'Woozies') invest in a weather proof case for your cans? 32ohm is pushing them down the 'Av' for $75.
   
  Looking for feedback as I may wanna sling my D7000's up & down Interstate-5.


----------



## nututubes

wedge said:


> Dannie grats on getting some very pretty looking and sounding tubes (at least IMO).  Do you know which Getter you got?  Funny we both seem to use the same output tube.




@Wedge, I have the same tubes as Dannie in my WA22. I'm not an expert in tube construction, but I can see a circular "halo" type device mounted @ a 45 degree angle near the bottom of the tube, adjacent to the silvering. Could this be what is called a "halo getter"?


----------



## Wedge

I'm not aware of any "Halo Getter".  But there is a ECC32 addicts thread that Rosgr started, not a lot of posts and he put up what information he has.  Sorry for no link in a rush to get out the door as I am already running late.


----------



## dannie01

Here is the link, ECC32 Tube Addicts.
   
  I will check it out tonight with the detail info that rosgr provided.


----------



## Icenine2

That case is now a standard no charge option instead of the wood box when you order LCD2's.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Next time I'm up that way, I'm goin' to walk in as well. Portland makes for a great weekend getaway already, but I wanna play with the goodies. By chance, did you (or any of the other LCD-2 wearing 'Woozies') invest in a weather proof case for your cans? 32ohm is pushing them down the 'Av' for $75.
> 
> Looking for feedback as I may wanna sling my D7000's up & down Interstate-5.


----------



## dannie01

No more impression in the moment but a pic of the ECC32.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No more impression in the moment but a pic of the ECC32.


 

 Ah, there's nothing like waking up to the sight of glowing Mullards in the morning. What a nice way to start the day off here in San Francisco. Thanks, dannie01. I can only dream of getting a pair of those tubes so your pic is a welcome sight knowing that someone somewhere is enjoying them in the _glass_!


----------



## dannie01

Haha, you're welcome, Clayton. Enjoy your Mullard breakfast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, there's nothing like waking up to the sight of glowing Mullards in the morning. What a nice way to start the day off here in San Francisco. Thanks, dannie01. I can only dream of getting a pair of those tubes so your pic is a welcome sight knowing that someone somewhere is enjoying them in the _glass_!


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> Next time I'm up that way, I'm goin' to walk in as well. Portland makes for a great weekend getaway already, but I wanna play with the goodies. By chance, did you (or any of the other LCD-2 wearing 'Woozies') invest in a weather proof case for your cans? 32ohm is pushing them down the 'Av' for $75.
> 
> Looking for feedback as I may wanna sling my D7000's up & down Interstate-5.




I went with the travel case when I got the LCD's. Not as pretty as the wood box but very functional and makes me feel like I could throw them off a bridge unharmed. Not to mention that with a silicon pack they get sealed in a controlled environment. Of course, I'd have to stop listening long enough to put them into the case!

With the rain in Portland I'd think it would have to be require gear,


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Here is the link, ECC32 Tube Addicts.
> 
> I will check it out tonight with the detail info that rosgr provided.


 

 Thanks for the link.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No more impression in the moment but a pic of the ECC32.


 

 You are EVIL...  super nice tube combo you got there...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





wedge said:


> About the getter question I was merely just asking as a curious thing.  Some post I caught on some thread somewhere had eluded to sonic differences between the different versions with different getters, I have never really done a comparison against one another, I own a 2 pair of D Getters, and 2 pair of Flat Strip or pan, I forget.  In any event, I'm not sure of the differences in sonics if there are any, also not sure of why it would cause any difference in sonics.  My apologies for asking.


 

 You have to take any of these comments with a grain of salt.  For every item from the power company to one's ears there will be someone with a tweak for it that makes their sound better.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No more impression in the moment but a pic of the ECC32.


 

 Really glad you are liking your ECC32's.  My pair should get here soon, but they are going in a WA22.
   
  So, how do you compare them to your TSRP's?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Really glad you are liking your ECC32's.  My pair should get here soon, but they are going in a WA22.
> 
> So, how do you compare them to your TSRP's?


 

 Thanks, mike and congrats to grab yourself a pair of these evil tubes. I love them very much. Initially from the WA5LE and LCD-2, since the current drawn of the ECC32 is higher than 6SN7, the output gain is much higher with these babies. I need only 2/3 volume dial to reach the normal listening volume that in the 6SN7. More detail in highs and lush, well extended. Mids is a bit fatigue but sweet sounding with extra texture. Bass is tightened, deep with impact. Sounstage is better though, more 3 dimensional, I can "feel" Anne Sophie Mutter's body swing when she play "Cramen". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But they only run-in for about 10hrs, I'm pretty sure it will much improve after 100hrs of burn-in.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Anne Sophie Mutter's body swing when she play "Cramen".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Tell me more about Anne 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. For those who don't listen to classical music, see my avatar.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks, mike and congrats to grab yourself a pair of these evil tubes. I love them very much. Initially from the WA5LE and LCD-2, since the current drawn of the ECC32 is higher than 6SN7, the output gain is much higher with these babies. I need only 2/3 volume dial to reach the normal listening volume that in the 6SN7. More detail in highs and lush, well extended. Mids is a bit fatigue but sweet sounding with extra texture. Bass is tightened, deep with impact. Sounstage is better though, more 3 dimensional, I can "feel" Anne Sophie Mutter's body swing when she play "Cramen".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Danny, should I put you in the ignore list?  You are killing me...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No more impression in the moment but a pic of the ECC32.


 
  I find this ironic. I used to be wowed by those humongous 300B tubes. Big=Powerful. But now I am entirely smitten by the smaller ECC82's with those heaters looking like hypnotic glowing eyes--beckoning me: "Buy me. Buy me. Buy me." Hehe hehe hehe.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Tell me more about Anne
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, John, the evening gown on Anne in your avatar is what exactly she wore in her concert in HK. That concert is marvelous, a wonderful night with wonderful music. When I got home after the concert,I switched on my rig then playedd some of her violin works that what she was played in the concert. I passed the LCD-2 to my wife and let her listen again but she gave me back the hp within a minute and said "I can't wonder why you can enjoy that kind of music quality everynight?!" Hahahahahaha..........................


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny, should I put you in the ignore list?  You are killing me...


 

 Hey John, I pretty sure you won't do that to me.


----------



## Killbox

Will Woo Audio 3 be a good match to my AKG Q701? anyone got this combo?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Tell me more about Anne
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  John, my whole image of you has changed 180 degrees.  I thought your avatar photo was a high school cheerleader, like your daughter or someone you knew.  Ok, so now I need to listen to Anne Mutter.  What would be a good album to start with?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks, mike and congrats to grab yourself a pair of these evil tubes. I love them very much. Initially from the WA5LE and LCD-2, since the current drawn of the ECC32 is higher than 6SN7, the output gain is much higher with these babies. I need only 2/3 volume dial to reach the normal listening volume that in the 6SN7. More detail in highs and lush, well extended. Mids is a bit fatigue but sweet sounding with extra texture. Bass is tightened, deep with impact. Sounstage is better though, more 3 dimensional, I can "feel" Anne Sophie Mutter's body swing when she play "Cramen".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for letting me know how they are settling in to your system.  Sometimes I have to listen with the low impedence setting like SS, so maybe it will be the same with these guys.  I'm really looking forward to getting these now.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> John, my whole image of you has changed 180 degrees.  I thought your avatar photo was a high school cheerleader, like your daughter or someone you knew.  Ok, so now I need to listen to Anne Mutter.  What would be a good album to start with?


 

 Mike, I'll suggest you to start with her "Carmen-Fantasie". She played some favorite music in this album such as Zigeunerweisen, Sonata for Violin and Continuo in G minor, B. g5 - "Il trillo del diavolo", Meditation and Carmen Fantasy and so. It's a very good album that highly recommend. You'll love it.
   
﻿


----------



## mikemalter

OMG - our thread page is 666!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> John, my whole image of you has changed 180 degrees.  I thought your avatar photo was a high school cheerleader, like your daughter or someone you knew.  Ok, so now I need to listen to Anne Mutter.  What would be a good album to start with?


 


 LOL Mike.
  Where to start???? I know every violinist does Vivaldi "The Four Seasons", but I would start here. http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-4-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B000002RMU/ref=sr_1_36?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1305650244&sr=1-36 
  Anne performed this while under the direction of the great Von Karajan, at a very young age. Later she directed her own version of the same Vivaldi piece.
  Anyway, she has done wonderful Bach pieces, which I really enjoy.
  Here is a good choice for a "sampler" I think. http://www.amazon.com/Very-Best-Anne-Sophie-Mutter/dp/B0016KCBX2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1305650911&sr=8-6


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Mike, I'll suggest you to start with her "Carmen-Fantasie". She played some favorite music in this album such as Zigeunerweisen, Sonata for Violin and Continuo in G minor, B. g5 - "Il trillo del diavolo", Meditation and Carmen Fantasy and so. It's a very good album that highly recommend. You'll love it.
> 
> ﻿


 


 Dannie, I wondered if you knew that DG has redbook quality 16/44.1 downloads?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> LOL Mike.
> Where to start???? I know every violinist does Vivaldi "The Four Seasons", but I would start here. http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-4-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B000002RMU/ref=sr_1_36?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1305650244&sr=1-36
> Anne performed this while under the direction of the great Von Karajan, at a very young age. Later she directed her own version of the same Vivaldi piece.
> Anyway, she has done wonderful Bach pieces, which I really enjoy.
> Here is a good choice for a "sampler" I think. http://www.amazon.com/Very-Best-Anne-Sophie-Mutter/dp/B0016KCBX2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1305650911&sr=8-6


 

 I love Von Karajan, it's the only Beethoven I can listen to.  Do you have the SACD/hybrid release through DG of the Beethoven Symphonies?
   
  I got the sampler and if I like it, I'll get the other release.  Thanks.


----------



## emremusic

May I recommend a jazz album that really tests my audio gear? When I'm experiementin with my new tubes, or sample rates, I always turn to this album first. 
   
  It's an older album by Chick Corea, Inner Space. It's hard panned, Bass is completely on the left, trumpet hard panned right, drums/piano in the center stereo. This recording is incredibly neutral in the way it's recorded and presented. Can be a little tiring without crossfeed, but between the close up miking of the upright bass and the overhead mikes of the cymbals, it really gives my headphones a workout. 
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Innerspace-Chick-Corea/dp/B000002I3I
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> LOL Mike.
> Where to start???? I know every violinist does Vivaldi "The Four Seasons", but I would start here. http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-4-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B000002RMU/ref=sr_1_36?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1305650244&sr=1-36
> Anne performed this while under the direction of the great Von Karajan, at a very young age. Later she directed her own version of the same Vivaldi piece.
> Anyway, she has done wonderful Bach pieces, which I really enjoy.
> Here is a good choice for a "sampler" I think. http://www.amazon.com/Very-Best-Anne-Sophie-Mutter/dp/B0016KCBX2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1305650911&sr=8-6


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Dannie, I wondered if you knew that DG has redbook quality 16/44.1 downloads?


 

 I just ordered this one from Amazon.  Did I not get a good one?


----------



## emremusic

sorry, i had to get us out of the page quick 
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> OMG - our thread page is 666!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Dannie, I wondered if you knew that DG has redbook quality 16/44.1 downloads?


 

 Yes, I know, their website have HUGE collection to buy on-line. But I prefer to buy real CD that can rip into my NAS then put them on the rack for something like collection. On the other hand,  all my hi-res music are bought on-line.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> May I recommend a jazz album that really tests my audio gear? When I'm experiementin with my new tubes, or sample rates, I always turn to this album first.
> 
> It's an older album by Chick Corea, Inner Space. It's hard panned, Bass is completely on the left, trumpet hard panned right, drums/piano in the center stereo. This recording is incredibly neutral in the way it's recorded and presented. Can be a little tiring without crossfeed, but between the close up miking of the upright bass and the overhead mikes of the cymbals, it really gives my headphones a workout.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Innerspace-Chick-Corea/dp/B000002I3I


 

 This is great, thanks.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





killbox said:


> Will Woo Audio 3 be a good match to my AKG Q701? anyone got this combo?


 


  Will not work. Hd650 are great with the 3!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> May I recommend a jazz album that really tests my audio gear? When I'm experiementin with my new tubes, or sample rates, I always turn to this album first.
> 
> It's an older album by Chick Corea, Inner Space. It's hard panned, Bass is completely on the left, trumpet hard panned right, drums/piano in the center stereo. This recording is incredibly neutral in the way it's recorded and presented. Can be a little tiring without crossfeed, but between the close up miking of the upright bass and the overhead mikes of the cymbals, it really gives my headphones a workout.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Innerspace-Chick-Corea/dp/B000002I3I


 

 I don't have that Corea, but I did get a great 24/96 of Chick and Gary Burton and Pat Metheny called "Like Minds" from HD tracks: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD00013431480327


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just ordered this one from Amazon.  Did I not get a good one?


 

 Mike, I'm sure it's perfect. Red Book is merely a CD quality standard. When I refered to it with reference to Deutche Gramaphon, I was merely pointing out that they are not MP3 (nothing wrong with that BTW)


----------



## Killbox

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Will not work. Hd650 are great with the 3!


 


   
  Why is that?  I've already bought the Q701s, and the Woo3 looks really tempting


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> ﻿


 

 What on Earth is "4D Audio"?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Will not work. Hd650 are great with the 3!


 

 OTL is not good for low impedance phones, you should take a look at the 6...
   


  Quote: 





killbox said:


> Why is that?  I've already bought the Q701s, and the Woo3 looks really tempting


----------



## grokit

The Schiit Lyr is great with the 701. In the Woo lineup you would probably want to look at the WA6SE as an upgrade but at substantially more $ than the Lyr. Sorry if this is blasphemy here!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Here's a real nice silver Woo WA2 with all the upgrades+tubes for sale at Audiogon  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1310158289&/Woo-Audio-WA2-pre/head-amp-wit


 

 After thinking about it for about a week, I broke down and sprung for this maxxed WA2. I've wanted to compare the WA2 with my WA6SE for quite some time, and the nice selection of tubes offered in this listing put me over the edge. It's my hope that a WA2/Concerto combination will keep me (and all my headphones) happy for some time to come.
   
  A question, then, for you WA2 owners -- which speakers have you successfully driven with the WA2's preamp? I've been leaning toward an Audioengine A5 setup, but with the WA2 in the picture, that may change.


----------



## Killbox

So the regular Woo 6 isn't any match for the Q701s either?  the SE edition is a bit above my budget.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





grokit said:


> What on Earth is "4D Audio"?


 


  http://apple2.org.za/gswv/1WSW/Audio.4D.html
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> A good quality set of electrostatic (over-the-ear) headphones will present the best listening system, for perception of all the sound effects, soundscapes and localization events, that can be presented; with the unique HOLOPHONICS (4D) audio processing and recording system


----------



## Nova13

_Quote:_


> _HELP! _
> 
> _I have had my WA3 for only a couple of weeks now and all was well.  I recently carefully pulled the tubes, packed everything in the original packaging, drove three hours to my Dad's house, hooked it all up as I had it at home, and now I experience very loud hum.  I have tried  different sources, different headphones, different outlets, different interconnects - nothing helped and the hum remained.  Note this is hum being output into the headphones, not transformer hum or anything like that.  Its so loud the music can only be slightly heard._
> 
> ...


 
   

  Hey guys - above is a post I made about 100 posts ago - I was out of town as you can see in the post and thus it took me a long time to post again to follow up.  To follow up on someones recommendation - we did try clipping the ground from a power cable and hooking it up, and that actually made the hum at my Dad's place worse....
   
  However, to my delight, my hum went away when I got back home, with only a small amount remaining thats noticeable at the highest of tolerable volume levels during pauses in music, mainly classical and jazz (note - this small amount was present before I left, as well).
   
  I'd like to ditch the last bit of hum from my stock WA3 and was wondering if its more likely caused by the power tube or the source tube causing my problem.
   
  I am also worried about what happened at my Dad's - is it really possible that his power situation was so bad as to make my woo unlistenable in his home?  And what if my next place has a similar issue?  What can be done?!
   
  Thanks in advance for any replies.
   
   
  PS:  We've his 10,000 posts in this thread - pretty neat.


----------



## emremusic

This is also a Very interesting album, because it has three chordal instruments: Vibes, Piano, and Guitar, all comping at the same time through out most of the tracks - Rarely done in any other jazz album, if ever.. I would say it's a very good album to check out for midrange ability. 
   
  I'm having fun with this album trying to place the all three instruments visually in my head with the wa6se....
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I don't have that Corea, but I did get a great 24/96 of Chick and Gary Burton and Pat Metheny called "Like Minds" from HD tracks: https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD00013431480327


----------



## PanamaRed

Definetely a noobish question .... but do the tubes in the WA22 have to be matched or is it just preferred? (i.e. will any damage occur as a result of not having matched tubes)
   
  Thanks again guys


----------



## jc9394

panamared said:


> Definetely a noobish question .... but do the tubes in the WA22 have to be matched or is it just preferred? (i.e. will any damage occur as a result of not having matched tubes)
> 
> Thanks again guys




To my noob knowledge, unmatched tubes will not damage the amp but if the test result is too far apart you will get imbalances on left and right channel.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well this is all very intresting about the ECC32's, and maybe a good match for my HE6's and WA5LE because of the ECC32's  50% higher current draw thus increasing the gain.
> 
> My concern is that because of the higher current draw will that reduce the life of my transformers. You guys with the WA5/LE with the ECC32 do you notice any extra heat coming from the transformers?
> 
> ...


 

 I own 2 pairs of ECC32. One with brown base and the other black base. They are my favorite driver tubes in my WA5-LE. I am running them with my EML 300B Mesh and EML 5U4G Mesh ro Mullard GZ37. With every headphones in my collection they sound the best even over the TS BGRP IMO, In every single case seems the they provide more gain and the headphones sound louder but for some reason I can not explain or undrestand they do not work well with my HE-6. As soon as I reach my normal listening volume I can hear some distrotion in the sound. The same thing happens with some of the 6SN7 tubes but not all. With the TS BGRP, Sylvania 6SN7WGT BBCT the HE-6 sound incredible.


----------



## bergnerm

My top two:
   
Vivaldi: The 4 Seasons; Tartini: Devil's Trill Sonata, and Bach: Violin Concertos & Gubaidulina: In Tempus Praesens
   
  oooo... but also Mendelssohn and Bruch: Violin Concerts, and... well, gotta stop somewhere 


  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> John, my whole image of you has changed 180 degrees.  I thought your avatar photo was a high school cheerleader, like your daughter or someone you knew.  Ok, so now I need to listen to Anne Mutter.  What would be a good album to start with?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Hey guys - above is a post I made about 100 posts ago - I was out of town as you can see in the post and thus it took me a long time to post again to follow up.  To follow up on someones recommendation - we did try clipping the ground from a power cable and hooking it up, and that actually made the hum at my Dad's place worse....
> 
> However, to my delight, my hum went away when I got back home, with only a small amount remaining that's noticeable at the highest of tolerable volume levels during pauses in music, mainly classical and jazz (note - this small amount was present before I left, as well).
> 
> ...


 


  Most amps and turntable RIAA preamps introduce slight hum. The hum should always be under a level to be noticed when playing music. My 3 has made a slight hum for a second and it passed.  One way to check would be to return to your Dads with some power conditioning to throw into the loop and see if there is a change. Most hum I have resulted from bad interconnects. I have used my 3 all over and they do not seem to need super pure power so I would not worry.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I own 2 pairs of ECC32. One with brown base and the other black base. They are my favorite driver tubes in my WA5-LE. I am running them with my EML 300B Mesh and EML 5U4G Mesh ro Mullard GZ37. With every headphones in my collection they sound the best even over the TS BGRP IMO, In every single case seems the they provide more gain and the headphones sound louder but for some reason I can not explain or undrestand they do not work well with my HE-6. As soon as I reach my normal listening volume I can hear some distrotion in the sound. The same thing happens with some of the 6SN7 tubes but not all. With the TS BGRP, Sylvania 6SN7WGT BBCT the HE-6 sound incredible.


 



 Thanks for your reply.
   
  I can control the gain from my A8 Realiser that has a output of 1.7v, if I raised the gain to high I would get some distortion at higher volume levels (using my TSRP's and HE6). What I did was get a ADG DAC19 DSP1v5 (output 2.2v I think) and put that between my A8 and WE5LE. Adding the DAC19 let me to raise the gain/volume in the Realiser by at least 10db without any distortion, there by letting me to lower the volume on my WA5LE.
  So it seems that the gain level can and will effect the HE6's if not properly matched to your Amp and gears.
   
  Anyway after getting your post and what is said about the ECC32's here; http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread#post_1380036, I will not be getting the ECC32's because I like the HE6's best of any of my headphones.
  I have my ALPS RK50 pot set between 10:00 and 12:00 depending on the source media using the low imp jack, and I like my audio fairly loud.
   
  note: the distortion would only happen when viewing a Bly Ray disc using its 5.1/7.1 HD MC tracks only.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





killbox said:


> So the regular Woo 6 isn't any match for the Q701s either?  the SE edition is a bit above my budget.


 


  Regular 6 will power them just fine unless you want to head bang.  This is the combo I run.


----------



## spagetka

Yes ss, transformers (all 4) in my wa5 with ecc32  are much warmer than with 6sn7w sylvania or 6sn7gt tung-sol.
   
  With headphones ecc32 and tun-sol are about equal, with loudspeakers(90db) are ecc32 slightly better. I guess that with 94+db speakers it will be tie.

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well this is all very intresting about the ECC32's, and maybe a good match for my HE6's and WA5LE because of the ECC32's  50% higher current draw thus increasing the gain.
> 
> My concern is that because of the higher current draw will that reduce the life of my transformers. You guys with the WA5/LE with the ECC32 do you notice any extra heat coming from the transformers?
> 
> ...


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Same.  I thought it was a better way to go if you ever want to go to meets.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Regular 6 will power them just fine unless you want to head bang.  This is the combo I run.


 
   
  I'm sure that's a great combo but that's not to say that they wouldn't sound even better with the additional power of the SE. The K701 really likes power.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> http://apple2.org.za/gswv/1WSW/Audio.4D.html


 

 Thanks, the CD may be the way to go then


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> I can control the gain from my A8 Realiser that has a output of 1.7v, if I raised the gain to high I would get some distortion at higher volume levels (using my TSRP's and HE6). What I did was get a ADG DAC19 DSP1v5 (output 2.2v I think) and put that between my A8 and WE5LE. Adding the DAC19 let me to raise the gain/volume in the Realiser by at least 10db without any distortion, there by letting me to lower the volume on my WA5LE.
> So it seems that the gain level can and will effect the HE6's if not properly matched to your Amp and gears.
> ...


 


 Nice post, SS.  Thanks.


----------



## Icenine2

Olias,
   
  You made a good buy.  Plus those BackGates arent' even available anymore.  Congratulations!
  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> After thinking about it for about a week, I broke down and sprung for this maxxed WA2. I've wanted to compare the WA2 with my WA6SE for quite some time, and the nice selection of tubes offered in this listing put me over the edge. It's my hope that a WA2/Concerto combination will keep me (and all my headphones) happy for some time to come.
> 
> A question, then, for you WA2 owners -- which speakers have you successfully driven with the WA2's preamp? I've been leaning toward an Audioengine A5 setup, but with the WA2 in the picture, that may change.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> My top two:
> 
> Vivaldi: The 4 Seasons; Tartini: Devil's Trill Sonata, and Bach: Violin Concertos & Gubaidulina: In Tempus Praesens
> 
> oooo... but also Mendelssohn and Bruch: Violin Concerts, and... well, gotta stop somewhere


 


 Good call on Anne's self-directed Four seasons. She really does let loose without Von Karajan's foot on the brakes.


----------



## Icenine2

Is that a picture of Anne doing some sort of violin stretching exercise?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Olias,
> 
> You made a good buy.  Plus those BackGates arent' even available anymore.  Congratulations!


 

 Thanks, Icenine2. Over the past few weeks, I've decided that I prefer the T1 to the HD800 and LCD-2... so the opportunity to pick up an upgraded version of the WA2 (what many folks here report to be the top tube amp for the T1) was too good to pass up.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Good call on Anne's self-directed Four seasons. She really does let loose without Von Karajan's foot on the brakes.


 

 This will be my next record.  Thanks for the tip.


  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Is that a picture of Anne doing some sort of violin stretching exercise?


 

 Why do they have to tart these artists up like this?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Same.  I thought it was a better way to go if you ever want to go to meets.


 


  Roadshow ~
   
  That was my thinking too, as I'm looking forward to attending some out of the area meets on the road. It'd be an optional buy for me and wanted to double check here on the quality. I went over to Pelican-case.com and found a few other cases that could fit my road warrior lifestyle as well - audio, camera ect.


----------



## Nova13

Can someone point me to where I can purchase a Tung sol 5998 for my WA3? 
   
  EDIT:  I am in the United States


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Can someone point me to where I can purchase a Tung sol 5998 for my WA3?
> 
> EDIT:  I am in the United States


 


 I have an extra pair that I purchased NOS and have not used yet. PM me if you like.
  Also look here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-Pair-JAN-CTL-5998-TUNGSOL-6AS7G-sub-/330564341754?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cf72b8ffa 
  and here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-pair-5998-TUNGSOL-6AS7G-sub-/330564930533?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cf7348be5
   
   
  ooops! I just realized that your WA3 only needs one power tube. The above info is for pairs. Oh well you would have a spare too.


----------



## mikemalter

Well, my ECC32's came today and I am listening to them as I type.  First impressions as compared to the TungSol BGRP is that the bottom end is much deeper and richer.  There is a lot of detail and they are a little too hot on the top end for me.  However, I am hoping that this smooths out over time as I very much like these tubes.  I'll let them play for a few days and post impressions then.
   
  Here are some photos:


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Wow mike. You've certainly made it to the top tier of the Must-Have Tubes realm. Your rig looks wonderful with the EML and the Mullards and the GECs.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Wow mike. You've certainly made it to the top tier of the Must-Have Tubes realm. Your rig looks wonderful with the EML and the Mullards and the GECs.


 

 Thanks Clayton.  I really have Nututubes to thank.  If the ECC32's continue to smooth out, I think that there could be something better, in my environment at least, than the TungSol BGRP's.


----------



## Silent One

@ mikemalter
   
  Indeed, you blasted your way to the top tier of tubes so fast, _are you using a mouse or joystick?  _


----------



## Icenine2

That's interesting that you say that.  I've been mulling over selling my T-1's to buy the LCD2's.  The wife factor prevents me from owning both............or does it?  I do love the T-1's.  So many big reports on the LC's being the end all and me seeking audio nirvana.
  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Thanks, Icenine2. Over the past few weeks, I've decided that I prefer the T1 to the HD800 and LCD-2... so the opportunity to pick up an upgraded version of the WA2 (what many folks here report to be the top tube amp for the T1) was too good to pass up.


----------



## Icenine2

Why do they always have to tart tubes up like these?  
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, my ECC32's came today and I am listening to them as I type.  First impressions as compared to the TungSol BGRP is that the bottom end is much deeper and richer.  There is a lot of detail and they are a little too hot on the top end for me.  However, I am hoping that this smooths out over time as I very much like these tubes.  I'll let them play for a few days and post impressions then.
> 
> Here are some photos:


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Why do they always have to tart tubes up like these?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> That's interesting that you say that.  I've been mulling over selling my T-1's to buy the LCD2's.  The wife factor prevents me from owning both............or does it?  I do love the T-1's.  So many big reports on the LC's being the end all and me seeking audio nirvana.


 
   
  I certainly didn't expect to prefer the T1s over the LCD-2s -- in fact, I brought my T1 box up from the cellar when the LCD-2s arrived, with the assumption that I'd soon be selling them. But there's just something about the presentation of the T1s -- the way everything comes together just right -- that I don't quite get with the LCD-2s.
   
  That said, having both the T1s and LCD-2s (if you could swing it) is really an ideal headphone "quiver." Plus, you certainly have the amp for it...


----------



## nututubes

mikemalter said:


> Thanks Clayton.  I really have Nututubes to thank.  If the ECC32's continue to smooth out, I think that there could be something better, in my environment at least, than the TungSol BGRP's.




Mike, it was my pleasure. I think that between you, Dannie01 and I, we got the last four of the five pairs that he had. I think that the fifth pair went to someone else on this board.
I think you might like the ECC32s combined with TS5998s and a Mullard GZ37. In my setup, the 6AS7s need to be pushed too hard with HD800s and combine that with a mesh plate rectifier, can be a bit fatiguing.
I am by no means expert at this, it's just my latest setup and I really like it. For the time being at least. I actually can't find a good reason to roll any other tubes for the moment.


EDIT: I don't have your GEC 6AS7s, I have some TS6520s (6as7), which I do like, but seem to lack the power of a 5998.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I also got a pair of TS5998's today and maybe when the ECC32's settle down, I'll try them.  I'll also look into a Mullard GZ37.  Any recommendations for sellers, or is an eBay hunt?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm sure that's a great combo but that's not to say that they wouldn't sound even better with the additional power of the SE. The K701 really likes power.


 


  I agree, but he said he was on a limited budget.  The SE will work better, no doubt, but the regular 6 will (and does) work just fine IMO.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I also got a pair of TS5998's today and maybe when the ECC32's settle down, I'll try them.  I'll also look into a Mullard GZ37.  Any recommendations for sellers, or is an eBay hunt?


 

 Upscale Audio has them for the most reasonable price I have seen.


----------



## nututubes

mikemalter said:


> I also got a pair of TS5998's today and maybe when the ECC32's settle down, I'll try them.  I'll also look into a Mullard GZ37.  Any recommendations for sellers, or is an eBay hunt?



Same as the ECC32s. He has one on eBay right now.


----------



## bergnerm

I've seen her in person only once, doing a self-directed collection of Bach violin concertos and the Devil's Trill. At first, during some of the slower movements, I thought her pace seemed a bit hurried compared to the more traditional performances I was used to listening to... but once she hit the livelier parts, she just exploded. It was jaw-dropping, and to this day I think it was the best concert I've ever been to.
  
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Good call on Anne's self-directed Four seasons. She really does let loose without Von Karajan's foot on the brakes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Upscale Audio has them for the most reasonable price I have seen.


 


   


  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Good to know guys, thanks.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, my ECC32's came today and I am listening to them as I type.  First impressions as compared to the TungSol BGRP is that the bottom end is much deeper and richer.  There is a lot of detail and they are a little too hot on the top end for me.  However, I am hoping that this smooths out over time as I very much like these tubes.  I'll let them play for a few days and post impressions then.
> 
> Here are some photos:


 


  The combo is beautiful and very nice pics indeed, congrats Mike.


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Wow mike. You've certainly made it to the top tier of the Must-Have Tubes realm. Your rig looks wonderful with the EML and the Mullards and the GECs.


 


  I second. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thanks Clayton. _* I really have Nututubes to thank.  If the ECC32's continue to smooth out, I think that there could be something better, in my environment at least, than the TungSol BGRP's.*_


 

 x 2, I also waiting my pair to smooth out, especially in the mids section.


----------



## danne

Just got confirmation that my amp will ship today or tomorrow, I'm now feeling even more like a kid counting days before christmas.


----------



## emremusic

Congrats!! Which amp did you order?
  
  Quote: 





danne said:


> Just got confirmation that my amp will ship today or tomorrow, I'm now feeling even more like a kid counting days before christmas.


----------



## danne

The WA22 with the tube upgrades 
  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Congrats!! Which amp did you order?


----------



## nututubes

danne said:


> The WA22 with the tube upgrades




Congrats on your WA22.If you find youself hunting for tubes, be sure to check the Woo TUBE COMPATABILITY list. https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## emremusic

Nice! I'm very much in love with my 6se. I'm actually looking at buying a cheap but decent solid state. And the only reason I'm doing is that so my woo wont get old. I'll only use it 2-3 times a week so it wont get old 
  Quote: 





danne said:


> The WA22 with the tube upgrades


----------



## Skylab

You guys who are "waiting for your ECC32's to smooth out" - where did you buy them?  The ECC32 is ultra-smooth, IME, and I have 5 pairs.  Certainly possible that some break-in is needed, but the ECC32 should sound VERY smooth and liquid.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You guys who are "waiting for your ECC32's to smooth out" - where did you buy them?  The ECC32 is ultra-smooth, IME, and *I have 5 pairs*.  Certainly possible that some break-in is needed, but the ECC32 should sound VERY smooth and liquid.


 







  You don't need that many spare, send a pair my way...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You guys who are "waiting for your ECC32's to smooth out" - where did you buy them?  The ECC32 is ultra-smooth, IME, and I have 5 pairs.  Certainly possible that some break-in is needed, but the ECC32 should sound VERY smooth and liquid.


 


 But my pair is really sound a bit harsh, fatigue in mids that never heard in the Sylvania chrome top short bottle that also newly bought just some days before the ECC32 arrive. The Sylvania is very lush and mellow in mids even brand new plugged in the WA5LE, weird.


----------



## Wedge

Yeah.  I don't find the ECC32 to sound harsh in mids, or hot in highs.  I have Chelmer's but they are really the same.  I have 4 pairs.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> But my pair is really sound a bit harsh, fatigue in mids that never heard in the Sylvania chrome top short bottle that also newly bought just some days before the ECC32 arrive. The Sylvania is very lush and mellow in mids even brand new plugged in the WA5LE, weird.


 

 I even have my ECC32 with the same EAT 300B.  Do you have any other output tube?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You guys who are "waiting for your ECC32's to smooth out" - where did you buy them?  The ECC32 is ultra-smooth, IME, and I have 5 pairs.  Certainly possible that some break-in is needed, but the ECC32 should sound VERY smooth and liquid.


 

 Five pairs?  No wonder the price of gold collapsed.
   
  Actually, my tube did smooth out yesterday at about 8 hours.  It was a little rough on top, but by the end of the day it was starting to sound very sweet.  I am liking these tubes very much.
   
  On another topic, I did put in the TungSol 5998's.  Wow, those are a very strong power tubes compared to my GEC 6AS7G experience.  I am at one click on the high impedence setting, and even that was too loud and I had to switch over to high impedence and at one click that is loud.  I switched from my HD800's to my LCD2's and I can see how the Mullard ECC32/TungSol 5998 combination could work for the LCD2's.  I don't have an hour on them yet, so I think it will take at least a day for them to settle in.  I'm going to switch back and forth between the HD800 and LCD2 to get a sense of what I like better.  I expect that the TungSol 5998 might be too powerful for my HD800, but am open to it working.
   
  On my P5 I see that I am only drawing 95 watts with the 5998's and when I have the GEC 6AS7G's in there I am drawing 115 watts.  Also the power supply is much cooler with the 5998's.  This is confusing to me because if the tube is "louder" I would have thought it would be using more power and making the WA22 hotter, but the opposite is the case.  The GEC 6AS7G's put the most demand on resources, but I have to turn the volume up higher.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## Wedge

Gain and loudness are related where as power and gain do not necessarily relate to one another.  But in general the 5998 are supposed to have a higher output power, but this also doesn't have to relate to quiessicient (blah on the spelling of that word) current draw.  I find the 5998 and ECC32s work well with the LCD-2.  I don't own the HD800s.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You guys who are "waiting for your ECC32's to smooth out" - where did you buy them?  The ECC32 is ultra-smooth, IME, and _*I have 5 pairs*_.  Certainly possible that some break-in is needed, but the ECC32 should sound VERY smooth and liquid.


 

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You don't need that many spare, send a pair my way...


 

 Now we know where the World's supply of ECC32s are stored.
  Are you trying to add to your already large collection of tubes to build a Mullard chess set or what?
   

   
  I hope they're housed in a bunker.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I even have my ECC32 with the same EAT 300B.  Do you have any other output tube?


 
   
  Problem found finally!
   
  It's nothing about the ECC32, forgot that I bought a pair of Madison Audio Lab e3 extreme RCA cable also brand new (just only 2-3 days before the ECC 32 arrive) that connect with the Linn Akurate DS and WA5LE, the cables are too new to open up instead of the ECC32. I switched back to the DIY cable (Mundrof silver/gold cable with WBT 0102 silver next gen RCA plugs) that already been connected with the DS and Woo5 for over half year. Ooh lala, the mellow, sweet mids of the Mullard is back, lovely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  Sorry Mullrd ECC32, it's all my fault.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Five pairs?  No wonder the price of gold collapsed.
> 
> Actually, my tube did smooth out yesterday at about 8 hours.  It was a little rough on top, but by the end of the day it was starting to sound very sweet.  I am liking these tubes very much.


 


  Actually it's 4.5 pairs now, one of my Chelmers died.  Want to really be sickened?  I paid an average of $300/pair, NOS.  Prices have gone up a lot since I bought mine...


  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Problem found finally!
> 
> It's nothing about the ECC32, forgot that I bought a pair of Madison Audio Lab e3 extreme RCA cable also brand new (just only 2-3 days before the ECC 32 arrive) that connect with the Linn Akurate DS and WA5LE, the cables are too new to open up instead of the ECC32. I switched back to the DIY cable (Mundrof silver/gold cable with WBT 0102 silver next gen RCA plugs) that already been connected with the DS and Woo5 for over half year. Ooh lala, the mellow, sweet mids of the Mullard is back, lovely.
> 
> ...


 

 LOL!  Glad that was resolved


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Actually it's 4.5 pairs now, one of my Chelmers died.  Want to really be sickened?  I paid an average of $300/pair, NOS.  Prices have gone up a lot since I bought mine...


 
   
  $300 a pair of Mullard ECC32 is about dream now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL! Glad that was resolved


 
  Thanks, Rob.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Problem found finally!
> 
> It's nothing about the ECC32, forgot that I bought a pair of Madison Audio Lab e3 extreme RCA cable also brand new (just only 2-3 days before the ECC 32 arrive) that connect with the Linn Akurate DS and WA5LE, the cables are too new to open up instead of the ECC32. I switched back to the DIY cable (Mundrof silver/gold cable with WBT 0102 silver next gen RCA plugs) that already been connected with the DS and Woo5 for over half year. Ooh lala, the mellow, sweet mids of the Mullard is back, lovely.
> 
> ...


 


   I am glad you found the issue. I have both pairs like you (ECC32 and Sylvania chrome tops) and even that I personally like the Sylavania better than my TS RPBG but not more than the Mullard ECC32.
   
  I just ordered a pair of Brimar Black Glass/Black Base NOS. Will see how those perform.
   
  Here is my personal perference out of my collection:
  1) Mullard ECC32
  2) RCA 5692 Red Base
  3) Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base Chrome Top Short Bottle.
  4) TS 6F8G Round Plates Black Glass and TS 6SN7GT Roubd Plates Black Glass
  5) Ken-Rad VT231 Black Glass
  6) Raytheon 6F8G Gray Glass
  7) RCA 6SN7GT Gray Glass
   
  Let's see where the Brimar CV1988 Black Glass Black Base will fall in the list.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am glad you found the issue. I have both pairs like you (ECC32 and Sylvania chrome tops) and even that I personally like the Sylavania better than my TS RPBG but not more than the Mullard ECC32.
> 
> I just ordered a pair of Brimar Black Glass/Black Base NOS. Will see how those perform.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, musicman.
   
  Wow, what a variety of tubes collection. I love the Sylvania more in classical music than the TS RPBG, too.But in some dance music like Madonna or so, the TS is always better perform. I also had a pair of Brimar CV1988 BGBB when I used to own the WA22. They are also very good sounding tube, very nice for classical music, violin works and chamber etc. I still miss their sound.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am glad you found the issue. I have both pairs like you (ECC32 and Sylvania chrome tops) and even that I personally like the Sylavania better than my TS RPBG but not more than the Mullard ECC32.
> 
> I just ordered a pair of Brimar Black Glass/Black Base NOS. Will see how those perform.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice collection, Musicman.  What do you like for power tubes?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You guys who are "waiting for your ECC32's to smooth out" - where did you buy them?  The ECC32 is ultra-smooth, IME, and I have 5 pairs.  Certainly possible that some break-in is needed, but the ECC32 should sound VERY smooth and liquid.


 


 Agreed, mine are perfect right out of the box. I actually hope that they don't change or "break in". . I like them so much, I got a second pair for spares.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Nice collection, Musicman.  What do you like for power tubes?


 

 I have the stock ones from Shuguang and the EML Mesh. The Shuguang have not been used at all just the EML. I would love a pair of WE but I don't want to take a second morgage on my house so I will probably get a pair of EAT later.
   
  Any other recommendations?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have the stock ones from Shuguang and the EML Mesh. The Shuguang have not been used at all just the EML. I would love a pair of WE but I don't want to take a second morgage on my house so I will probably get a pair of EAT later.
> 
> Any other recommendations?


 

 Which Woo do you have?


----------



## mikemalter

So here is an interesting twist.  My much vaunted and loved GEC 6AS7G's may have fallen behind the TungSol 5998's.
   
  What happened is that after listening to the TS for about 4 hours this morning, I changed back to the GEC's because the TS had a little sharper edge on top and I figured I'd spend half a day breaking in the TS and then the other half with the GEC's.  As soon as I put the GEC's back and started listening, I realized that the TS had just as much bass extension as the GEC, but the bass was tighter.  Compared to the TS, the bass on the GEC's was thick and syrupy.  Not what I expected.
   
  Still adjusting to the TS as the gain is really high.  I have my WA22 headphone output set on low and two clicks on the volume is too hot for my HD800's, and the first click is a little too low.  However the promise of the TS seems worth the breakin teething issues and I'm going to see how much longer I can keep listening.
   
  For other TS 5998 users out there, was there a breakin period for you and how long was it?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Agreed, mine are perfect right out of the box. I actually hope that they don't change or "break in". . I like them so much, I got a second pair for spares.


 

 Pretty!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Which Woo do you have?


 
   
  musicman59 have a WA5...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> musicman59 have a WA5...


 

 The best!


----------



## nututubes

mikemalter said:


> So here is an interesting twist.  My much vaunted and loved GEC 6AS7G's may have fallen behind the TungSol 5998's.
> 
> What happened is that after listening to the TS for about 4 hours this morning, I changed back to the GEC's because the TS had a little sharper edge on top and I figured I'd spend half a day breaking in the TS and then the other half with the GEC's.  As soon as I put the GEC's back and started listening, I realized that the TS had just as much bass extension as the GEC, but the bass was tighter.  Compared to the TS, the bass on the GEC's was thick and syrupy.  Not what I expected.
> 
> ...




Mike I keep wondering about something you said about the low output setting on the WA22.
It's my understanding that the HD800 should be run on the "high" setting. If I'm not mistaken, the high or low means impedance setting and for the HD800, it should be better on high. The HD800 are high impedance (300 ohms). The high/low is there for impedance matching, which will determine how efficiently the WA22 will power them.
Just a thought.
John


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks John, you are right that normally the HD800 should be set to the high setting. It's my understanding, and hopefully others can comment here, is that by setting the impedence selector to low will make the WA22 less efficient thereby acting as a gain filter of sorts.  It's also my understanding that it's a pure volume issue, but I could be wrong.
   
  What level do you have your volume set at when your impedence is set to high?


----------



## nututubes

mikemalter said:


> Thanks John, you are right that normally the HD800 should be set to the high setting. It's my understanding, and hopefully others can comment here, is that by setting the impedence selector to low will make the WA22 less efficient thereby acting as a gain filter of sorts.  It's also my understanding that it's a pure volume issue, but I could be wrong.
> 
> What level do you have your volume set at when your impedence is set to high?




Well, right now with TS7236/ECC32/GZ37, and a Rachel Podger Bach Concerto for violin playing...it's @ 11 o'clock.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Which Woo do you have?


 

 WA5-LE with all parts upgrade, tubes upgrades, WBT NextGen RCAs, Teflon sockets and all the internal wiring is Neotech OCC.
   
  Here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty


----------



## MorbidToaster

Can someone with the regular Woo 6 do me a favor and measure the dimensions?
   
  Width, Height (To the top of the brick, if you would), and Length.
   
  One thing I've noticed from buying gear over the past few months is never trust the dimensions on the manufacturer's site.


----------



## jc9394

morbidtoaster said:


> Can someone with the regular Woo 6 do me a favor and measure the dimensions?
> 
> Width, Height (To the top of the brick, if you would), and Length.
> 
> One thing I've noticed from buying gear over the past few months is never trust the dimensions on the manufacturer's site.




Email Jack, we will more than happy to give you the measurement.


----------



## Icenine2

Will it be a Woo WA7?  That is the next iteration of Woo.  WA7.  Just wanted to see it in writing.


----------



## Icenine2

Does anyone own silver IC's?  Good or bad wiWoo?  I'm going to pick up a set of Moon Audio Blue Dragons to find out what they are like.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Does anyone own silver IC's?  Good or bad wiWoo?  I'm going to pick up a set of Moon Audio Blue Dragons to find out what they are like.


 
  It isn't whether silver is good or bad, it is if the IC is good. I have used silver with a Woo amp and it was fine. A good IC is a good IC no matter what amp it is used with. While there seems to be some synergy for some more than others, it is the transmission of electrons in the least offensive method possible. Silver has the lowest resistance of the main metals used, silver then copper then gold. Dead soft correctly drawn silver at the right gauge can be excellent also depending upon how the dielectric was applied, type of dielectric and so on.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> WA5-LE with all parts upgrade, tubes upgrades, WBT NextGen RCAs, Teflon sockets and all the internal wiring is Neotech OCC.
> 
> Here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty


 


 Sweeeetttt!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Does anyone own silver IC's?  Good or bad wiWoo?  I'm going to pick up a set of Moon Audio Blue Dragons to find out what they are like.


 


 X2 with jamoto8.  I have a pair of Granite Audio balanced silver interconnects and I am very pleased with their performance.  I think it depends more on the cable.  Also, there was a thread today where someone was not happy with the top end after putting in a new tube, and then then realized it was the interconnect and when they changed the IC they really liked the sound.  Look for that thread and maybe you can try a pair of those cables.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When you have your TS5998 in, where do you usually have the volume?
   
  Do you swap your TS5998 and TS7236 regularly?


----------



## flaming_june

I can't even lurk here anymore.  It's going to cost me my bank account if I stay and look at pictures and impressions.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thanks John, you are right that normally the HD800 should be set to the high setting. It's my understanding, and hopefully others can comment here, is that by setting the impedence selector to low will make the WA22 less efficient thereby acting as a gain filter of sorts.  It's also my understanding that it's a pure volume issue, but I could be wrong.
> 
> What level do you have your volume set at when your impedence is set to high?


 
  Low vs. High impedance is all about optimizing the transformer to the load the headphone is presenting.  If you are too loud at 2 clicks on the dial that is very unusual if you ask me.  Something else in your source chain is contributing to this problem.  Either your input source (DAC) has a very strong output (somewhere well north of 2.0V unbalanced or 4.0V balanced), or if you have more than one device in the chain you are doubling up the input signal voltage and thus the Woo is seeing a source signal with abnormally high gain to begin with.  If any of your other devices has adjustable output voltage lowering it will give you the volume headroom you need on the Woo.
   
  I've been concerned about this myself because running balanced out of my own DAC results in 4.5V so I might end up with the exact same problem you're currently having (I plan to use the 5998 primarily when I reach WA22 land).
  
  edit:  about 7236 vs 5998...... the 5998 is slightly higher gain but the difference is small.  The two are basically comparable to each other and should exhibit similar volume gain.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Can someone with the regular Woo 6 do me a favor and measure the dimensions?
> 
> Width, Height (To the top of the brick, if you would), and Length.
> 
> One thing I've noticed from buying gear over the past few months is never trust the dimensions on the manufacturer's site.


 

 Per the Wooaudio website:  6"(H), 5½(W), 13"(D)
   
  My tapemeasure confirms.    The depth is from the edge of the volume pot to the edge of the impedance switch.  Otherwise the actual chassis depth is only about 10.5"


----------



## MorbidToaster

Thanks! First site I've witnessed who actually has accurate measurements. lol
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Per the Wooaudio website:  6"(H), 5½(W), 13"(D)
> 
> My tapemeasure confirms.    The depth is from the edge of the volume pot to the edge of the impedance switch.  Otherwise the actual chassis depth is only about 10.5"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Does anyone own silver IC's?  Good or bad wiWoo?  I'm going to pick up a set of Moon Audio Blue Dragons to find out what they are like.


 


  "jamato8? _He hit it... deep to left field... going way back... way back... h-o-m-e  r-u-n  for Team jamato8!!!"_ What I would like to add, I view cables as opportunities to tune. Based on your current system, are you trying to achieve or avoid a particular sound? Brighter, darker? Is your system fast or slow? This is where the right boutique or dealer comes in at. Because if you find one with the right policy, then you can try before you buy (14 - 30 days). And try again to get things right.
   
  The other benefit to a good dealer? Say you just bought the perfect IC's, like yesterday. Friday, you've a new piece of gear you're going to introduce in your system. And you quickly find yourself going from scratching your head to hitting your head "What did I just do?!" Your dealer could then, go about helping you tune for your new configuration saving you $$$& drama.
   
_Thought I'd chime in since apparently I'm just wandering the streets... looking for that bull that left the China shop earlier today... all I could could see was "ECC32" branded on his butt as he ran away... can't say that I recognize the Ranch either._


----------



## nututubes

mikemalter said:


> When you have your TS5998 in, where do you usually have the volume?
> 
> Do you swap your TS5998 and TS7236 regularly?




Mike, the volume I use is more or less the same for those tubes. I have a few pairs of each, so I test or evaluate them, then mark the box of those that I prefer. I select the quietest and mark #1....#2 etc.
The volume level that I select is more a function of the material being played, time of day, the mood I'm in. What is a constant, is that regardless of these functions, the 6080/6AS7s always require more volume than the 7236/5998s, given the same situation (source material, time of day, mood etc.)
HTH
John


----------



## jc9394

flaming_june said:


> I can't even lurk here anymore.  It's going to cost me my bank account if I stay and look at pictures and impressions.




Did I heard someone said "Self control" before. You see what I meant befor?


----------



## Nova13

Hey people - I'd like your opinion!
   
  I run a stock WA3 at this time, and am looking to upgrade the power tube.
   
  Should I roll with a TS 5998 from vacuumtubes.net?  $45 USD - it doesn't appear to be NOS, the website is mildly sketchy, but I've heard from some folks they do just fine.  They say "Every tube is double tested by hand prior to shipment" and that they guarantee all tubes for 30 days, though.  Might these be even used?  http://www.vacuumtubes.net/prices.htm
   
  Or a Sylvania NOS 7236 straight from Jack?  $60 USD
   
  Thanks from your time.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I'm also looking for some opinions here.  I'm considering the purchase of a WA22.  I'm currently running a Mac Mini/iTunes/Pure Music/optical out to a StageDAC.  I have 2 amps connected to the StageDAC; a Concerto and a WA2.  I love both of these amps; I generally leave my LCD-2s connected to the Concerto, and my HD-800s hooked up to the WA2.  I can switch back and forth, depending on what I'm listening to.
   
  But, upgraditis has struck, and after reading a lot about how the LCD-2s will shine with more power, I'm interested in the WA22.  My plan would be to sell the WA2, and the Concerto/StageDAC combo, and eventually upgrade to a Wyred For Sound DAC, or something similar that is balanced.  (I do have a nice pair of TS5998s that I'm using with the WA2, and I know these will also work in the WA22; I will, of course, have to look at additional tube upgrades.)
   
  Looking at the Woo amp comparison chart, it looks like the WA22 puts out nearly 4 times the power at 50 ohms, which is in the LCD-2s range, I think.  I also use HD800s, and so I would be going back to a single amp system; can't afford to run two amps with the cost of the WA22 being what it is.  Will I see a fair amount of sonic improvement using these phones with the WA22 over the WA2 and Concerto?  (I also use D7000s with the Concerto occasionally).  I wonder if anyone here has done any comparisions/upgrades with the above mentioned gear.
   
  I also have questions about running the WA22 in a balanced setup.  Should the balanced headphone cable have 1 4 pin XLR, or the dual 3 pin XLRs?  Is there an advantage to one over the other?   Running a full balanced system would involve the same optical connection from the computer to the DAC, then balanced XLR cables from the DAC to the amp, and a balanced headphone cable out of the amp, correct?
   
   Thanks for any thoughts anyone might have.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Low vs. High impedance is all about optimizing the transformer to the load the headphone is presenting.  If you are too loud at 2 clicks on the dial that is very unusual if you ask me.  Something else in your source chain is contributing to this problem.  Either your input source (DAC) has a very strong output (somewhere well north of 2.0V unbalanced or 4.0V balanced), or if you have more than one device in the chain you are doubling up the input signal voltage and thus the Woo is seeing a source signal with abnormally high gain to begin with.  If any of your other devices has adjustable output voltage lowering it will give you the volume headroom you need on the Woo.
> 
> I've been concerned about this myself because running balanced out of my own DAC results in 4.5V so I might end up with the exact same problem you're currently having (I plan to use the 5998 primarily when I reach WA22 land).
> 
> edit:  about 7236 vs 5998...... the 5998 is slightly higher gain but the difference is small.  The two are basically comparable to each other and should exhibit similar volume gain.


 

 X,  I think you are on to something regarding my source chain.  I use a Monarchy DIP http://www.monarchyaudio.com/DIP_Upsampler_Main_Frame.htm that reclocks and boosts the signal from my i170 and then feeds my DLIII.  Rated output under normal conditions from the DLIII is published as follows: XLR is 5.5 and RCA is 2.75 volts, so even without the DIP output voltage is up there.
   
  So this morning, I removed the i170 and the volume is somewhat lower.  One click on high impedence is now at the right volume for me.  I have not tried the TS7236, and the TS 5998 has boosted the gain more than any other tube I have tried so far.  Even higher than the Sylvania 7236.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So here is an interesting twist.  My much vaunted and loved GEC 6AS7G's may have fallen behind the TungSol 5998's.
> 
> What happened is that after listening to the TS for about 4 hours this morning, I changed back to the GEC's because the TS had a little sharper edge on top and I figured I'd spend half a day breaking in the TS and then the other half with the GEC's.  As soon as I put the GEC's back and started listening, I realized that the TS had just as much bass extension as the GEC, but the bass was tighter.  Compared to the TS, the bass on the GEC's was thick and syrupy.  Not what I expected.
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Low vs. High impedance is all about optimizing the transformer to the load the headphone is presenting.  If you are too loud at 2 clicks on the dial that is very unusual if you ask me.  Something else in your source chain is contributing to this problem.  Either your input source (DAC) has a very strong output (somewhere well north of 2.0V unbalanced or 4.0V balanced), or if you have more than one device in the chain you are doubling up the input signal voltage and thus the Woo is seeing a source signal with abnormally high gain to begin with.  If any of your other devices has adjustable output voltage lowering it will give you the volume headroom you need on the Woo.
> 
> I've been concerned about this myself because running balanced out of my own DAC results in 4.5V so I might end up with the exact same problem you're currently having (I plan to use the 5998 primarily when I reach WA22 land).
> 
> edit:  about 7236 vs 5998...... the 5998 is slightly higher gain but the difference is small.  The two are basically comparable to each other and should exhibit similar volume gain.


 


 You can run high impedance phones on the low impedance setting no problem but it is not best to run low impedance phones on the high setting. Running high impedance on the low
  setting will do two things one the amp will put out a lower voltage to the phones on the low setting which will allow you to turn up the volume control more. And it will increase the
  reflected impedance on the output tubes that will reduce distortion produced in the output tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I'm also looking for some opinions here.  I'm considering the purchase of a WA22.  I'm currently running a Mac Mini/iTunes/Pure Music/optical out to a StageDAC.  I have 2 amps connected to the StageDAC; a Concerto and a WA2.  I love both of these amps; I generally leave my LCD-2s connected to the Concerto, and my HD-800s hooked up to the WA2.  I can switch back and forth, depending on what I'm listening to.
> 
> But, upgraditis has struck, and after reading a lot about how the LCD-2s will shine with more power, I'm interested in the WA22.  My plan would be to sell the WA2, and the Concerto/StageDAC combo, and eventually upgrade to a Wyred For Sound DAC, or something similar that is balanced.  (I do have a nice pair of TS5998s that I'm using with the WA2, and I know these will also work in the WA22; I will, of course, have to look at additional tube upgrades.)
> 
> ...


 

 Regarding headphone outputs, I think if you look deeper into the issue, you'll find that the output side of the WA22 is single ended regardless of output connector.  I have cables with both the single ended and dual 4 pin XLR termination for my HD800, and the XLR cable sounds only slightly better.  One issue I have had with the single ended connector on the WA22 is that it tends to be a little loose, don't know why.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can run high impedance phones on the low impedance setting no problem but it is not best to run low impedance phones on the high setting. Running high impedance on the low
> setting will do two things one the amp will put out a lower voltage to the phones on the low setting which will allow you to turn up the volume control more. And it will increase the
> reflected impedance on the output tubes that will reduce distortion produced in the output tubes.


 

 Interesting.  Thank you Glenn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> X,  I think you are on to something regarding my source chain.  I use a Monarchy DIP http://www.monarchyaudio.com/DIP_Upsampler_Main_Frame.htm that reclocks and boosts the signal from my i170 and then feeds my DLIII.  Rated output under normal conditions from the DLIII is published as follows: XLR is 5.5 and RCA is 2.75 volts, so even without the DIP output voltage is up there.
> 
> So this morning, I removed the i170 and the volume is somewhat lower.  One click on high impedence is now at the right volume for me.  I have not tried the TS7236, and the TS 5998 has boosted the gain more than any other tube I have tried so far.  Even higher than the Sylvania 7236.
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Hi Mike--I've never heard of the Monarchy Audio DIP Upsampler (and thanks for the link). I also have the DLIII with Cullen IV mods. It's a good price at $299 and is in S.SanFran. Has this DIP helped your WA22 sonically as they claim? I trust your ears--they may keep me in a sustainable Nirvana state. Hehehe.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Regarding headphone outputs, I think if you look deeper into the issue, you'll find that the output side of the WA22 is single ended regardless of output connector.  I have cables with both the single ended and dual 4 pin XLR termination for my HD800, and the XLR cable sounds only slightly better.  One issue I have had with the single ended connector on the WA22 is that it tends to be a little loose, don't know why.


 



 I guess you checked to make sure the plate mounted phone jack was tight from the inside, so if its not loose why not just replace the phone jack. Cost is about $1.50, I replace my phone jacks on both of my Woo's.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Hey people - I'd like your opinion!
> 
> I run a stock WA3 at this time, and am looking to upgrade the power tube.
> 
> ...


 


 The 7236 from Jack is a safe bet. I don't know anything about vacuumtubes.net. I have two pair from Jack and I am satisfied with the quality. Jack seems to have a lot of 1963 Syl 7236 on hand.


----------



## Icenine2

I have the single 4 pin XLR.  There is no advantage to the dual 3 pins other than they look a bit cooler.
  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I'm also looking for some opinions here.  I'm considering the purchase of a WA22.  I'm currently running a Mac Mini/iTunes/Pure Music/optical out to a StageDAC.  I have 2 amps connected to the StageDAC; a Concerto and a WA2.  I love both of these amps; I generally leave my LCD-2s connected to the Concerto, and my HD-800s hooked up to the WA2.  I can switch back and forth, depending on what I'm listening to.
> 
> But, upgraditis has struck, and after reading a lot about how the LCD-2s will shine with more power, I'm interested in the WA22.  My plan would be to sell the WA2, and the Concerto/StageDAC combo, and eventually upgrade to a Wyred For Sound DAC, or something similar that is balanced.  (I do have a nice pair of TS5998s that I'm using with the WA2, and I know these will also work in the WA22; I will, of course, have to look at additional tube upgrades.)
> 
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

What Silly Sally said about the 1/4".  Tends to be loose on the WA22.  Jack told me it was my T-1 plug that was a bit short on the diameter thus looser.  I changed to 4 pin and all is well now.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I guess you checked to make sure the plate mounted phone jack was tight from the inside, so if its not loose why not just replace the phone jack. Cost is about $1.50, I replace my phone jacks on both of my Woo's.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> The 7236 from Jack is a safe bet. I don't know anything about vacuumtubes.net. I have two pair from Jack and I am satisfied with the quality. Jack seems to have a lot of 1963 Syl 7236 on hand.


 

 I buy tubes from them and they work great.


----------



## Nova13

I emailed Jack about the 7236's for me and he said that I may consider getting different driver tubes if that last bit of hum I have bothers me - and that the 7236 may make the hum louder due to its higher gain.
   
  Has anyone had any experience with the Phillips 6922 that Jack offers on his site with the WA3?  I can't afford his 280/pr Amperax 7308 at the moment...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Does anyone own silver IC's?  Good or bad wiWoo?  I'm going to pick up a set of Moon Audio Blue Dragons to find out what they are like.


 


   I have a top of th eline pair of solid silver vampire Wire between my PWD and WA5-LE and they sound great. I also have a pair of balanced Acoustinc Zen Silver Reference between my Wadia 27 and RP010B and also sound really good.
   
  I am getting today a pair of WireWorld Eclipse 6 OCC for the WA5-LE so I wil lbe able to make conparison between a good silver and a good OCC cable.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi Mike--I've never heard of the Monarchy Audio DIP Upsampler (and thanks for the link). I also have the DLIII with Cullen IV mods. It's a good price at $299 and is in S.SanFran. Has this DIP helped your WA22 sonically as they claim? I trust your ears--they may keep me in a sustainable Nirvana state. Hehehe.


 

 Clayton,  I really like the DIP and from my experience it adds sonically.  From my perspective, it removes glare and sharpness yet does not reduce detail, the audio is more delicate and nuanced.  I'm setup now so that my iPod is my music source and I get a digital out with the Wadia i170.  For a while I experimented with the digital output of the sound card in my laptop and when going directly into my DLIII the audio was not listenable.  But going through the Monarchy first a lot of glare and harshness was removed.  The issue with the DIP is that you need two digital interconnects.  One from your source to the DIP and then one from the DIP to your DAC.  I have my best cable going from the DIP to my DLIII and a more, shall we say cost effective cable going from my i170 to the DIP.  Within reason, cable quality to the DIP has had very little sonic impact if at all, but the cable out does make a difference.
   
  I originally bought the DIP to sit between an AppleTV and the DLIII when I first started getting into streaming media.  The AppleTV only has one digital output and that is fiber.  The audio was ok, but got substantially better when I got the DIP into the picture and could go coax into the DLIII.
   
  If you are ever up for a trip across the bridge into San Rafael, let me know.  I could pick you up from the ferry if you don't drive and you can listen to the DIP in my system.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have a top of th eline pair of solid silver vampire Wire between my PWD and WA5-LE and they sound great. I also have a pair of balanced Acoustinc Zen Silver Reference between my Wadia 27 and RP010B and also sound really good.
> 
> I am getting today a pair of WireWorld Eclipse 6 OCC for the WA5-LE so I wil lbe able to make conparison between a good silver and a good OCC cable.


 

 I love WireWorld cables.  I have their Supernova 5+ fiber cable, and now I see they have a 6.   I'm really interested in what you find musicman.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> If you are ever up for a trip across the bridge into San Rafael, let me know.  I could pick you up from the ferry if you don't drive and you can listen to the DIP in my system.


 

 Thanks for the offer. Owning a car in the City is impractical if not downright inconvenient; the distance to and from work is about an eight-block walk so the only time I depend on a car (rental) for transportation is when I venture outside a 2-mile radius of my apartment.
   
  Would you say that the DIP is capable of improving the sound on all DACs? It would seem so since it improved the sound of your DLIII. I am wondering if I should get a DIP to connect to my DLIII or simply get a Wyred4Sound DAC-2 without a DIP. Could the DIP also improve the sound the DAC-2. The DAC2 already has very impressive stats.
   
  Oh--just when I started to get control of spending on NOS tubes for my WA22 then along comes the DIP and other devices! Is there no end to this!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks for the offer. Owning a car in the City is impractical if not downright inconvenient; the distance to and from work is about an eight-block walk so the only time I depend on a car (rental) for transportation is when I venture outside a 2-mile radius of my apartment.
> 
> Would you say that the DIP is capable of improving the sound on all DACs? It would seem so since it improved the sound of your DLIII. I am wondering if I should get a DIP to connect to my DLIII or simply get a Wyred4Sound DAC-2 without a DIP. Could the DIP also improve the sound the DAC-2. The DAC2 already has very impressive stats.
> 
> Oh--just when I started to get control of spending on NOS tubes for my WA22 then along comes the DIP and other devices! Is there no end to this!


 

 Sure, the ferry is very close to me and I actually never drive into SF and only go where I can walk from the ferry terminal, so if you would like to come by, let me know.  It would be fun to have a second pair of ears and different perspective.
   
  I think crown jewel of the DIP is in the reclocking of the signal and then sending it on without degredation. 
   
  I have read where people were critical of the Wadia i170 because they believed that it produced a lot of jitter, and so in my case the DIP makes a substantial difference.  It also made a very big difference coming out of my laptop's digital output and again when I was coming from an AppleTV.  I think the benefit to the DAC from the DIP comes from what the source is.  So if I had a W4S DAC and my source was the i170, I would want a DIP in front of it.  But if I had a really high end transport, my thought is that maybe the DIP would not help as much.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I'm also looking for some opinions here.  I'm considering the purchase of a WA22.  I'm currently running a Mac Mini/iTunes/Pure Music/optical out to a StageDAC.  I have 2 amps connected to the StageDAC; a Concerto and a WA2.  I love both of these amps; I generally leave my LCD-2s connected to the Concerto, and my HD-800s hooked up to the WA2.  I can switch back and forth, depending on what I'm listening to.
> 
> But, upgraditis has struck, and after reading a lot about how the LCD-2s will shine with more power, I'm interested in the WA22.  My plan would be to sell the WA2, and the Concerto/StageDAC combo, and eventually upgrade to a Wyred For Sound DAC, or something similar that is balanced.  (I do have a nice pair of TS5998s that I'm using with the WA2, and I know these will also work in the WA22; I will, of course, have to look at additional tube upgrades.)
> 
> ...


 

 The WA22 is an excellent match for both the HD800 and the LCD-2, the problem is finding a single tube combo to optimize both headphones. But it's a fun problem to try and solve if you have a healthy tube budget 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can run high impedance phones on the low impedance setting no problem but it is not best to run low impedance phones on the high setting. Running high impedance on the low
> setting will do two things one the amp will put out a lower voltage to the phones on the low setting which will allow you to turn up the volume control more. And it will increase the
> reflected impedance on the output tubes that will reduce distortion produced in the output tubes.


 

 The exception to this would seem to be orthodynamic headphones, as there are multiple and unanimous reports of the high impedance setting being better for the 50 ohm LCD-2, at least on the WA22. I believe that the technical explanation for this revolves around the type of load that the LCD-2 presents to the amp.
   
  The WA22 doesn't really do justice to the HiFiMAN orthos, but I think that their new HE-500 may be an exception and would love to hear from someone that has heard it. With all the orthos the higher-gain power tubes are the way to go.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sure, the ferry is very close to me and I actually never drive into SF and only go where I can walk from the ferry terminal, so if you would like to come by, let me know.  It would be fun to have a second pair of ears and different perspective.
> 
> I think crown jewel of the DIP is in the reclocking of the signal and then sending it on without degredation.
> 
> I have read where people were critical of the Wadia i170 because they believed that it produced a lot of jitter, and so in my case the DIP makes a substantial difference.  It also made a very big difference coming out of my laptop's digital output and again when I was coming from an AppleTV.  I think the benefit to the DAC from the DIP comes from what the source is.  So if I had a W4S DAC and my source was the i170, I would want a DIP in front of it.  But if I had a really high end transport, my thought is that maybe the DIP would not help as much.


 

  
  I may decide to arrive via BART/Ferry. Not because I cannot drive. Or unable to drive. I want to be able to sit back and _luxuriate_ (Silent One _quietly_ crossing The Bay, until he is overheard by others..._"Miss? Can I get a straw with that Champagne split?"_). Besides, this just isn't any ol' headphone tube amp I'm coming to see. But a 'Woo!'   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Since Monday, I've only 29 hours of burn-in on the '7.' Hoping to get near 150 hours before dropping by. It'd be great if Clayton and I could coordinate a date for a mini-meet, if you would. Something after Memorial Day weekend, perhaps June. Looking forward to seeing (hearing) what you got!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I love WireWorld cables.  I have their Supernova 5+ fiber cable, and now I see they have a 6.   I'm really interested in what you find musicman.


 


_WireWorld cables & Silent One, quietly having an affair..._
   
   
   
 [size=inherit]
 Cable Inventory
   WireWorld Headphone Cable
 Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - XLR (Balanced) 

 WireWorld Power Conditioning Cords 
 Electra 5* OCC Copper w/Furutech IEC/7C 24k Gold connectors 
 Stratus 5* OFC Copper

 WireWorld Digital Audio Interconnect 
 Silver Starlight 6 OCC Silver-Clad Copper + Silver Tube plugs 

 WireWorld Analogue Audio Interconnect 
 Equinox 6 OCC Copper + ViaBlue 1/4 TS Mono plugs & Silver Tube plugs

 WireWorld USB Cable 
 Ultraviolet OFC Silver-Plated Copper
[/size]


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> _WireWorld cables & Silent One, quietly having an affair..._
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"Woo"uld that be a W^3 set up... WooWireWorld?


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> I may decide to arrive via BART/Ferry. Not because I cannot drive. Or unable to drive. I want to be able to sit back and _luxuriate_ (Silent One _quietly_ crossing The Bay, until he is overheard by others..._"Miss? Can I get a straw with that Champagne split?"_). Besides, this just isn't any ol' headphone tube amp I'm coming to see. But a 'Woo!'
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There does appear to be quite a few bay area Woo'ers active here.... A Woo mini-meet could be a lot of fun...(shamelessly trying to get a chance to hear some of your gear!)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Tonight, look east (Greater East Bay) and you'll see the glow emitting from my Woo Audio WA6-Special Edition...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Since replying to mikemalter earlier today, I've actually been entertaining two thoughts, mini-meet related. My first thought may bring howls and laughter flat-out! Which will eventually subside once y'all realize "He's serious!" I'm seriously thinking about hosting a mini-meet inside a (wait for it)... library. We wouldn't have to contend with a whole lot of unwanted external or unpleasant ambient noises, now would we?!  
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My pick would be the Dublin Public Library (Alameda Co.). It's modern, accessible and great Community rooms. Just a thought! Second choice would be to host a mini-meet at CAL (UC Berkeley). This locale has a lot going for it as well, food & drink just down the street among them...
   
  Reaction! I'd like to get your thoughts on this, as well as hear from our other Woo mates that sit Bay side.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can run high impedance phones on the low impedance setting no problem but it is not best to run low impedance phones on the high setting. Running high impedance on the low
> setting will do two things one the amp will put out a lower voltage to the phones on the low setting which will allow you to turn up the volume control more. And it will increase the
> reflected impedance on the output tubes that will reduce distortion produced in the output tubes.


 

 Can you elaborate a bit on why using high impedance with low impedance phones is not ideal?  It seems to be the better option in my case for the K701 (62 ohm).  Running the amp on low results in a flat sound with no drive or PRaT, it feels much more at home with the amp set to the high impedance setting even though the K701 is outside of the ideal load range.  Many users have reported the LCD-2 behaves this way as well at and it too is a low impedance load (50 ohm).
   
  This is one of those things where I always believed in just trusting your ears and going with whichever seems to sound better, but I'm curious to know the technical/electrical reasoning behind why one should be a better choice than the other.


----------



## Anaxilus

Had a chance to listen to the WA5 a few weeks ago.  Very impressed with the HD800 and K1000 (best I've heard it yet) from it.  I do find it compelling in versatility and sonic quality but my concern is this.  Is the WA5 really a solid speaker amp competitive w/ other dedicated units or is it merely passable?  Can it actually drive a set of Magnapans (well)?


----------



## Wedge

I use mine for speakers.  To be honest, I prefer my Leben as a speaker amp.  It runs out of steam pretty quickly with inefficient speakers, but I think it really does sound good, just too much limitation.  I generally listen Dynaudio Focus 110s with these setups, but I also have Paradigm Studio 20s which are much more efficient and it works better with these.  I would imagine it would do quite well running a pair of Zu Audios.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Can you elaborate a bit on why using high impedance with low impedance phones is not ideal?  It seems to be the better option in my case for the K701 (62 ohm).  Running the amp on low results in a flat sound with no drive or PRaT, it feels much more at home with the amp set to the high impedance setting even though the K701 is outside of the ideal load range.  Many users have reported the LCD-2 behaves this way as well at and it too is a low impedance load (50 ohm).
> 
> This is one of those things where I always believed in just trusting your ears and going with whichever seems to sound better, but I'm curious to know the technical/electrical reasoning behind why one should be a better choice than the other.


 



 Yes that is a good question and I also would like to read his thinking about this also. I think one of the problems with using a high imp jack with a low imp headphone is that it can put extra stress on the transformers.
   
  Anyway there are some folks that have the WA5LE that say using there HE6 headphones plugged into the high imp jack sounds better to there ears. In my case the HE6's sounds better using the low imp jack. And that goes for my K701's as well, matter of fact using the low imp jack on my WA5LE with the K701's is the only headphone amp that I have that makes the K701's sound really good.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I love WireWorld cables.  I have their Supernova 5+ fiber cable, and now I see they have a 6.   I'm really interested in what you find musicman.


 
  Don't know about the 5+ TOSlink but I do have the Supernova 6 (1/2 M)TOSlink running from my A8 to my DAC and like it very much.
  I also have a pair of the Eclipse 6 (1/2 M) and also like them running from my DAC to my Woo.
  However I use a 8 RCA (1M) blue jean analog audio cables from my BDP-95 to my A8.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Don't know about the 5+ TOSlink but I do have the Supernova 6 (1/2 M)TOSlink running from my A8 to my DAC and like it very much.
> I also have a pair of the Eclipse 6 (1/2 M) and also like them running from my DAC to my Woo.
> However I use a 8 RCA (1M) blue jean analog audio cables from my BDP-95 to my A8.


 


  I too, have the WireWorld Supernova 6 toslink cable (280 glass fiber optics) @ 1 meter. Loved it since 18 November, but will be removing from service next week - the Silver Starlight digital is set to take its place.
   
  - Team WireWorld


----------



## Xcalibur255

That was the first thought I had too after my post.  Given how versatile the Woo amps are in terms of what loads they can tolerate from tubes (the recent ECC32 being a good example with it pulling 50% more current than the 6SN7 the amps are designed for), I think it is safe to assume any additional stress on the transformers is within design tolerance and not going to shorten the service life of the amp.  Any good designer would take into account all the various ways a customer might use the amp, and since running a low impedance headphone off the high impedance transformer tap is an option open to us I'm sure the talented folks at Woo Audio took that into account.
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes that is a good question and I also would like to read his thinking about this also. I think one of the problems with using a high imp jack with a low imp headphone is that it can put extra stress on the transformers.


----------



## spagetka

A lot of opinions are about this matter. I was afraid how WA5 will work with B&W 804S (90db/8ohm). Now I can say that it depends on tubes - with 5ar4 it is without detail so I replace it with EML 5u4g and it was much better but still not satisfying. Then driver tubes from sylwania 6sn7w (relaxed but slow) -> TSRP 6sn7gt(better detail and fast) -> ecc32 chelmer (winner). With 6sn7w or TS I usually have the volume around 10 o'clock, with ecc32 around 8 o'clock it is pretty loud in my room with good detail (of course headphones are much better in this way), deep soundstage (headphones simply cant reach) and perfect dynamic.
   
  Great thing about WA5 is that you can adjust sound as much as you like.
   
  BUT Magnapans are only 86db so you need more than 2wats to play 90db so I am afraid that wa5 wont work with some kind of music like electronic,classic,rock,pop because of bass. With acoustic jazz it should be OK.
   
  Hope that helps.
   
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Had a chance to listen to the WA5 a few weeks ago.  Very impressed with the HD800 and K1000 (best I've heard it yet) from it.  I do find it compelling in versatility and sonic quality but my concern is this.  Is the WA5 really a solid speaker amp competitive w/ other dedicated units or is it merely passable?  Can it actually drive a set of Magnapans (well)?


----------



## spagetka

Exactly, K701 is my favourite headphones even with Benchmark DAC1 headamp. Well, with WA5 K701 sounds awesome, K1K are much much better when you have perfect listening conditions.
   
  I have to try some test with k701 with H/L impedance jack. Till now I use only HIJ because LIJ is rated <=40ohm if I can remember that correctly.

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes that is a good question and I also would like to read his thinking about this also. I think one of the problems with using a high imp jack with a low imp headphone is that it can put extra stress on the transformers.
> 
> Anyway there are some folks that have the WA5LE that say using there HE6 headphones plugged into the high imp jack sounds better to there ears. In my case the HE6's sounds better using the low imp jack. And that goes for my K701's as well, matter of fact using the low imp jack on my WA5LE with the K701's is the only headphone amp that I have that makes the K701's sound really good.


----------



## spagetka

My Starlight WireWorld USB 2.0m cable arrived a week ago so I have a chance to test it with DAC1 PRE (previously I was using belkin usb 3.0m). Because DAC1 is not asynchronous I was hoping for better sound. After less than 30 hours the change is huge - better detail, much deeper soundstage,better separation,better dynamic. It is like everything has its own place, very relaxed, not disturbing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> My Starlight WireWorld USB 2.0m cable arrived a week ago so I have a chance to test it with DAC1 PRE (previously I was using belkin usb 3.0m). Because DAC1 is not asynchronous I was hoping for better sound. After less than 30 hours the change is huge - better detail, much deeper soundstage,better separation,better dynamic. It is like everything has its own place, very relaxed, not disturbing.


 


  I brought the Silver Starlight USB cable into my listening room for a couple of weeks - it painted a very beautiful landscape for me. I only returned it because I decided to buy a bridge and apply those funds to a Starlight coax cable instead. However, my bridge was DOA and has been returned for an exchange. So, I'm patiently waiting to see what the new WW coax sounds like in my system. If it's anything like its USB sibling, _we're gonna be up all night..._


----------



## Silent One

Explorations in Space and Time - HDtracks.
   
  Just downloaded a couple of Binaural tracks from "Explorations in Space and Time" before going to bed. BIG mistake! These recordings are hypnotic, addictive and fun. My listening room sounds much larger than it measures! When I rise later in the morning, I'm going in for seconds and download another couple of tracks. Currently have:
   
  "Stank" - 4:40
  "Long Distance" - 5:35


----------



## mikemalter

Just got an email from Jack about the ECC32.  He says not to use the tube that it can damage the power supply.  Here is his exact answer:
   
  Quote: 





> [size=medium]The ECC32 is not compatible with the WA22. This is a power tube and it draw much higher current. It can damage the power supply.[/size]
> 
> [size=medium][size=medium]--------------------------[/size][/size]
> [size=medium][size=medium]www.[/size]*[size=medium]WooAudio[/size]*[size=medium].com[/size][/size]
> [size=medium][size=medium]*Twitter.com*/WooAudio[/size][/size]


 
   
  This is my original emal.
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=12pt]Jack,[/size]
> 
> [size=12pt]Several of the guys on Head-fi are using the ECC32 in the WA22's.  The word on them is that they are not a direct replacement of the 6SN7 and they have about 50% more gain.[/size]
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've pulled mine.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## Wedge

Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Just got an email from Jack about the ECC32.  He says not to use the tube that it can damage the power supply.  Here is his exact answer:
> 
> 
> This is my original emal.
> ...


 

 I use them.  His tube compatibility chart has them in there.  I also told him that I was going to use them and he said nothing to me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Exactly, K701 is my favourite headphones even with Benchmark DAC1 headamp. Well, with WA5 K701 sounds awesome, K1K are much much better when you have perfect listening conditions.
> 
> I have to try some test with k701 with H/L impedance jack. Till now I use only HIJ because *LIJ is rated <=40ohm* if I can remember that correctly.


 

 If correct that clears a few things up.
   
   
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> Quote:
> 
> I use them.  His tube compatibility chart has them in there.  I also told him that I was going to use them and he said nothing to me.


 

 OTOH this is getting muddier.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Quote:
> 
> I use them.  His tube compatibility chart has them in there.  I also told him that I was going to use them and he said nothing to me.


 
  I'd imagine if Mike just got a reply from Jack to his question about the ECC32 and the WA22 then that is Jack's current view on that compatibility issue. How old is Jack's compatibility chart anyway? So he needs to update his chart because I'd hate for WA22 owners to run the risk of shortening the life of their WA22 because of an incorrect chart.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'd imagine if Mike just got a reply from Jack to his question about the ECC32 and the WA22 then that is Jack's current view on that compatibility issue. How old is Jack's compatibility chart anyway? So he needs to update his chart because I'd hate for WA22 owners to run the risk of shortening the life of their WA22 because of an incorrect chart.


 

 I asked him to reconfirm - which was an odd feeling asking the guy who builds your amp to please check again.  But, I did email him back and said the ECC32 was on the compatibility chart.  I have yet to hear back from him.  I'll post if I get an answer.
   
  He also answered my question about running my HD800's on the low setting:
   
  Quote: 





> [size=medium]There is no harm at all using any impedance setting.[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]--------------------------[/size]
> [size=medium]www.[/size]*[size=medium]WooAudio[/size]*[size=medium].com[/size]
> [size=11pt]*Twitter.com*/WooAudio[/size]


----------



## SDMAN

Had a very good morning. Made some coffee, sat down to drink it and wake up and there was an NOS pair of matched Tung-sol 7236 power tubes on E-bay. Couldnt Paypal those quick enough. My WA22 will like those. Its gonna be a good day.
   
  I looked at the ECC32 drivers. Decided they were way to much $$$. Ended up going with an STC 6SN7GT NOS pair. Still waiting for those. The guy has 2 pair left.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I asked him to reconfirm - which was an odd feeling asking the guy who builds your amp to please check again.  But, I did email him back and said the ECC32 was on the compatibility chart.  I have yet to hear back from him.  I'll post if I get an answer.
> 
> He also answered my question about running my HD800's on the low setting:


 

 Well there was a time when the WA6SE could not use a tube that the WA6 could (I've forgotten which mini tube that was). Then he changed the WA6SE later on to accommodate that tube. I also know that the Leben CS300XS's headphone output has also gone through a change which rendered a once-compatible headphone incompatible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I find change irksome--sometimes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then again... there's a new Woo on the horizon! MORE change!
  Mike, I will hide your wallet from you if you hide mine from me!
  I think that SilentOne's wallet has made quite a few rounds these past months.


----------



## Wedge

My understanding of Woo products is that they are over designed by a pretty large factor.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well there was a time when the WA6SE could not use a tube that the WA6 could (I've forgotten which mini tube that was). Then he changed the WA6SE later on to accommodate that tube. I also know that the Leben CS300XS's headphone output has also gone through a change which rendered a once-compatible headphone incompatible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, I'll hide your wallet if you hide mine.
   
  New Woo on the horizon?  Do tell!


----------



## spagetka

Hm, thank you. I am wondering IF it is save to use ecc32 with WA5/WA5-LE. As I said before I noticed increasing heat from both PSU and AMP.
   
  Hope that Jack'll take a look and revise the tube compatibility chart.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I asked him to reconfirm - which was an odd feeling asking the guy who builds your amp to please check again.  But, I did email him back and said the ECC32 was on the compatibility chart.  I have yet to hear back from him.  I'll post if I get an answer.
> 
> He also answered my question about running my HD800's on the low setting:


----------



## emremusic

Umbilical cord question...
   
  Hey friends, 
  I'm building a shelf for my audio gear... I'm thinking putting the two units of my 6SE on top of each other by ordering a long umbilical cord. What I was wondering was... would a longer umbilical cord.. say 20", hurt the sound of my woo??


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, I'll hide your wallet if you hide mine.
> 
> New Woo on the horizon?  Do tell!


 

 A mention on *page 650* of this thread.
  An excerpt from this interview with Jack Wu from *Positive Feedback ISSUE 55*:
   
*[size=x-small]JW[/size]*[size=x-small] We are very excited about the high-end headphone market (and associated products) as it continues to have respectable growth and sales opportunities. MP3 and hi-definition music will each play a major role. We expect to see a range of both economical and higher quality listening solutions. With that in mind, we have a long-term vision and commitment to an end-to-end Woo Audio headphone system.[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]*In a few months, our new DAC and CD Transport will be announced to the public. Probably in parallel, you will also see a new monoblock headphone/speaker amplifier. *We are thrilled to introduce this new amplifier to our customers. It combines breakthrough innovation and much improved key components. Finally, but not least, we plan on introducing a high-end headphone to the market. This has always been my dream and we are elated that this will soon be a reality! [/size]


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A mention on *page 650* of this thread.
> An excerpt from this interview with Jack Wu from *Positive Feedback ISSUE 55*:
> 
> *[size=x-small]JW[/size]*[size=x-small] We are very excited about the high-end headphone market (and associated products) as it continues to have respectable growth and sales opportunities. MP3 and hi-definition music will each play a major role. We expect to see a range of both economical and higher quality listening solutions. With that in mind, we have a long-term vision and commitment to an end-to-end Woo Audio headphone system.[/size]
> ...


 

 Oh no.  Yes, it's hide the wallet time.


----------



## Skylab

sometimes people forget than an ECC32 is NOT the same as an ECC33. The ECC33 is exactly equivalent to the 6SN7 and can be used in any 6SN7 application. The ECC32 is a totally different tube, which has the identical pin-out as the 6SN7, and reasonably close operating parameters, but lower transconductance, and HIGHER heater current draw. Where I have known it was safe to use, like in the RSA Stealth, and my modded/restored Singlepower amp, it was terrific. But the power transformer has to allow for almost a full additional amp of current draw for a pair of ECC32's. That may not always be the case, especially in combination with other tubes that may be on the high side of the range of what's allowed.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> sometimes people forget than an ECC32 is NOT the same as an ECC33. The ECC33 is exactly equivalent to the 6SN7 and can be used in any 6SN7 application. The ECC32 is a totally different tube, which has the identical pin-out as the 6SN7, and reasonably close operating parameters, but lower transconductance, and HIGHER heater current draw. Where I have known it was safe to use, like in the RSA Stealth, and my modded/restored Singlepower amp, it was terrific. But the power transformer has to allow for almost a full additional amp of current draw for a pair of ECC32's. That may not always be the case, especially in combination with other tubes that may be on the high side of the range of what's allowed.


 

 Sky,
   
  This makes sense, expecially since Jack said it *can* damage the power supply, not it *will* damage the power supply.
   
  So if I was running my WA22 with GEC 6AS7G power tubes with an EML 5U4G rectifier, would the ECC32 be safe?


----------



## Artie17

Hey guys,
   
  I'm about to join the Woo club in a few days, waiting for my WA6 SE. I've been reading around trying to find a dac to go along with this amp. I'm currently using Auzentech Prelude as my source and have been recommended the DacMagic, the emu 0404, and the nfb 2/3.
   
  I'm currently using the HD650's and plan on getting DT 990's next (600ohm) next. I like to listen all kinds of music, but my favorite is Jazz, hip hop, rock, so I want something with impact and bass and looking to spend around $400 or less. I already started a thread on this but I think this is the best place to ask.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'd imagine if Mike just got a reply from Jack to his question about the ECC32 and the WA22 then that is Jack's current view on that compatibility issue. How old is Jack's compatibility chart anyway? So he needs to update his chart because I'd hate for WA22 owners to run the risk of shortening the life of their WA22 because of an incorrect chart.


 


 The compatibility chart is a couple of months old I think. I thought it was a very new spreadsheet actually. Maybe he meant ECC33 and not ECC32 as a compatible driver? It seems odd to me that the CV181 is also listed with the ECC32, does this suggest two mistakes?
   
  Anyway, I have been using them for three weeks now, twice a day, sometimes for three or four hours. My transformers are maybe blood warm. My *non expert* opinion is that if the ECC 32 tubes were in fact loading the transformers too heavily, there would be more heat generated while using the ECC32s than there is with other tubes.
   
  I have never felt heat from my transformers so far using any power, driver, rectifier tube that is listed on the chart.
   
  I'll wait this one out and continue using ECC 32s until the compatibility chart states otherwise. I think the perfrmance gains are worth the (potential) risk. If I detect some increase in transformer heat, I'll re-think this approach.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well there was a time when the WA6SE could not use a tube that the WA6 could (I've forgotten which mini tube that was). Then he changed the WA6SE later on to accommodate that tube. I also know that the Leben CS300XS's headphone output has also gone through a change which rendered a once-compatible headphone incompatible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  My wallet is so empty, only I.D. prevents an accidental tossing into the trash when doing housecleaning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  With three empty tea tins marked 'Audio', I shudder to think what I'll buy when I get a job!


----------



## Skylab

one other thing - the original CV181 is equivalent to the ECC32, but the Shuguang Treasure CV181 is not a real CV181 - my understanding is it is actually a 6SN7 in CV181 clothing.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> one other thing - the original CV181 is equivalent to the ECC32, but the Shuguang Treasure CV181 is not a real CV181 - my understanding is it is actually a 6SN7 in CV181 clothing.


 


 I'm sure Jack knows the Treasure CV181 is a 6SN7, perhaps purposely mislabeled (for some unknown reason) as a CV181. I can't imagine that the CV181 referenced on the compatibility chart, is a Treasure CV181!
   
  edit: the Treasure CV181 is a perfectly good tube. I have some too and I'm not criticizing this tube at all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Umbilical cord question...
> 
> Hey friends,
> I'm building a shelf for my audio gear... I'm thinking putting the two units of my 6SE on top of each other by ordering a long umbilical cord. What I was wondering was... would a longer umbilical cord.. say 20", hurt the sound of my woo??


 


  Even when receiving solid tips, it's best to try, look and listen - then evaluate. Two things I'd consider is heat and vibration control, which could impact the sound of your system. I believe the concept is fine and will come down to how well you can execute. Playing around in between playing tracks can be fun and good for the soul. Keep us posted, as I own the 6-SE as well.


----------



## Wedge

From a previous post that Mike Malter posted it seemed like the GEC made the transformers hotter than with the TS5998 sounds like more of an issue, because I run the ECC32 with TS5998 and some regular old RCA NOS 5U4G for about 6-8 hours a day for the last 3-4 months and I have had no issues.  I don't actually listen that much, sometimes I have it on for background music, but besides the point.  If Jack's stance is they are now not compatible with his amps it would be great to let us all know.  To be honest I think the other tubes are good and some are even great, but nothing has really taken me to where I want to be with the Woos except the ECC32s.


----------



## Skylab

The 6AS7G draws 0.1 amp more heater current than a 5998. So for the power transformer, the ECC32 plus 6AS7G will be slightly harder than the ECC32 plus 5998 (by 0.2 amps in the WA22).


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Umbilical cord question...
> 
> Hey friends,
> I'm building a shelf for my audio gear... I'm thinking putting the two units of my 6SE on top of each other by ordering a long umbilical cord. What I was wondering was... would a longer umbilical cord.. say 20", hurt the sound of my woo??


 

 This is how I set up my 6SE.  I got a 24" umbilical cord from Jack.  He can make different lengths.  He told me that it would have no impact on sound, and my ears tell me he was right.


----------



## shipsupt

I don't think it's crazy at all!  A library might turn out to be the perfect location.  Berkeley would be a good central location too, plus the bonus of the great food and drink close by. 
   
  A few other options:
   
  - There are quite a few community centers, such as San Ramon, that offer very nice rooms of different sizes.  Not sure how much they charge for these spaces...  There must be similar centers on the other side of the bay.
   
  - My location may not be ideal, because it's out in Pleasanton, but my association has a club house that would be awesome for a mini-meet.  It was several separate rooms, tables, and lounge areas that could be set up so there are areas for quiet listening and others for talking shop.  Dates fill up quickly for weekends, but we could use it for next to nothing, $25 for the whole day.  There is also a kitchen in case we wanted to bring along some snacks etc...
   
  Just a few more possibilities.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Since replying to mikemalter earlier today, I've actually been entertaining two thoughts, mini-meet related. My first thought may bring howls and laughter flat-out! Which will eventually subside once y'all realize "He's serious!" I'm seriously thinking about hosting a mini-meet inside a (wait for it)... library. We wouldn't have to contend with a whole lot of unwanted external or unpleasant ambient noises, now would we?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Just got a clairifying email back from Jack,  He says that the ECC32's are ok afterall.  Here is his email:
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=medium]My mistake. I can be used as a driver. It is the same as CV181. All tubes in the tube chart are verified so you can take reference from there.[/size]


 
   
  Here was my email asking for the clairification:
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=12pt]Jack,[/size]
> 
> [size=12pt]Just checked the tube compatibility chart and the ECC32 is on there.  Should it be taken off?  [/size]


 
   
  Well, I'll say that that is enough excitement for one day, yes?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The 6AS7G draws 0.1 amp more heater current than a 5998. So for the power transformer, the ECC32 plus 6AS7G will be slightly harder than the ECC32 plus 5998 (by 0.2 amps in the WA22).


 

 Sky,
   
  Thanks for the details on the GEC 6AS7G.  I have noticed that when the GEC's are in there the wattage readout on my P5 is about 10 watts higher.  They have the highest draw of all my power tubes which is surprising to me because supposedly tubes like the Sylvania 7236 are more powerful but draw less current.  Does that make sense?  Do you know why?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just got a clairifying email back from Jack,  He says that the ECC32's are ok afterall.  Here is his email:
> 
> Here was my email asking for the clairification:
> Quote:
> ...


 

 Shoot. And I just canceled my order for six pairs of 'em. (Twelve Mullard ECC32). j/k 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All kidding aside--
  Mike, thanks for getting Jack to clarify;
  now I need to fix myself a cocktail.
  Happy Saturday to all ye Woozies who have ECC32s. ENJOY!


----------



## Nova13

I have purchase a lot of things online in my day....
   
  These sites to buy tubes have some of the WORST ordering systems I've ever encountered.  I can't even tell what tubeworld.com has in stock or how much it costs!!!
   
  And ebay scares me....for tube-buying at least.
   
  Anyone have a more straightforward site?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sky,
> 
> Thanks for the details on the GEC 6AS7G.  I have noticed that when the GEC's are in there the wattage readout on my P5 is about 10 watts higher.  They have the highest draw of all my power tubes which is surprising to me because supposedly tubes like the Sylvania 7236 are more powerful but draw less current.  Does that make sense?  Do you know why?


 

 The 5998 has about twice the transconductance of a 6AS7G, and more than twice the amplification factor.  This is why it is "more powerful".  Heater current draw is not the primary determinant of amplification in a vacuum tube.


----------



## Silent One

Great exchange of info today...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I don't think it's crazy at all!  A library might turn out to be the perfect location.  Berkeley would be a good central location too, plus the bonus of the great food and drink close by.
> 
> A few other options:
> 
> ...


 


  Pleasanton ~
   
  I knew if you looked East last night (580), you could see the glow of my Woo (we're not that far from each other). Post dinner PM to come...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If correct that clears a few things up.
> 
> 
> 
> OTOH this is getting muddier.


 


  In regards to impedance ranges, it is 8-99 ohm for low and 100-600 for high, at least it is for my WA6.  Many amps use 100 ohm or whereabouts to draw the line between "low" and "high" impedance.


----------



## Wedge

Tubeworld tells you which pairs are available.  They are all pretty bad in terms of their sites, for Tubeworld sometimes its easier to copy and paste the tube info in an email and tell Brendan that you would like to buy this tube.  If your worried Jack (Woo Audio) has tubes that he doesn't list on his website.  You can try Audiogon, lots of tube sellers there.
  
  Quote: 





nova13 said:


> I have purchase a lot of things online in my day....
> 
> These sites to buy tubes have some of the WORST ordering systems I've ever encountered.  I can't even tell what tubeworld.com has in stock or how much it costs!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Tubeworld tells you which pairs are available.  They are all pretty bad in terms of their sites, for Tubeworld sometimes its easier to copy and paste the tube info in an email and tell Brendan that you would like to buy this tube.  If your worried Jack (Woo Audio) has tubes that he doesn't list on his website.  You can try Audiogon, lots of tube sellers there.


 

 Actually, I find tubeworld to be the most complete online ordering site I've used from all of them. Not only does he tell you what he has in stock, in a lot of cases Brendan tells you what the tube reading is from his testers.
   
  Also note: his site says that it's down for maintenance, which may be the reason you're not getting back any info.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> I have purchase a lot of things online in my day....
> 
> These sites to buy tubes have some of the WORST ordering systems I've ever encountered.  I can't even tell what tubeworld.com has in stock or how much it costs!!!
> 
> ...


 

www.wooaudio.com/products/
   
  They have upgraded tubes for every amp, just throw 'em in your cart and check right out.


----------



## SDMAN

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> I have purchase a lot of things online in my day....
> 
> These sites to buy tubes have some of the WORST ordering systems I've ever encountered.  I can't even tell what tubeworld.com has in stock or how much it costs!!!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I have had nothing but good experiences using E-bay and Paypal for tube buying. And I get them from Turkey, Spain, England, Hong Kong,  etc. Not a single issue.The tubes have always been exactly as advertised and shipped quickly. Customs can be a PITA, but thats not the sellers fault. In the last 24 hours Ive purchased 3 pair. Two pair already have tracking numbers. You need to know what you want, so when you see it available you can grab it as quick as possible.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'd have to echo that experience.  For all the stories I hear about being burned on eBay, nearly all of my 6SN7 have come from there and I have yet to have a single bad experience.  I think it is just a matter of having a decent understanding of what you are looking for and knowing what to watch for in terms of the seller's history and how they present their listing.  I've actually taken a chance once or twice on tubes that I normally would have passed on due to good prices and these too have turned out to be good purchases.  The only gotcha, for me at least, would be not knowing if the stated test results are true or not since I do not own my own tester.  Nevertheless if the tube sounds great in the amp I have no reason to doubt the stated condition of the tube by the seller, and I like to believe in people doing the right thing as a rule of thumb rather than suspect they are all out to rip you off.


----------



## Skylab

I have gotten quite a few bad tubes on eBay. No out and out scams,but tubes that simply tested bad (gas, shorts, etc.) when I got them. In every case I received a replacement or refund, so all ended up well. BUT - if I didn't own a tube tester, and I had just looked at them and stuck them in my amp, the could have been trouble. There are some truly excellent eBay tube sellers, but heck, I have even gotten bad tubes from Antique Electronic Supply! It happens. Old tubes fail. Having a tester really helps.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have gotten quite a few bad tubes on eBay. No out and out scams,but tubes that simply tested bad (gas, shorts, etc.) when I got them. In every case I received a replacement or refund, so all ended up well. BUT - if I didn't own a tube tester, and I had just looked at them and stuck them in my amp, the could have been trouble. There are some truly excellent eBay tube sellers, but heck, I have even gotten bad tubes from Antique Electronic Supply! It happens. Old tubes fail. Having a tester really helps.


 

 X2. Anyone spending serious money on tubes should also invest in a tube tester. I've sent tubes back to on-line retailers as well. I would never had known they were bad if it wasn't for my tester. I would say the money I've saved by returning the tubes has paid for the tester.


----------



## Skylab

golfnutz said:


> X2. Anyone spending serious money on tubes should also invest in a tube tester. I've sent tubes back to on-line retailers as well. I would never had known they were bad if it wasn't for my tester. I would say the money I've saved by returning the tubes has paid for the tester.



You can get decent testers for reasonable prices, too. There is one on Audiogon right now for about $200. That's the price of one TS BGRP 6SN7GT


----------



## Nova13

Thanks for the support fellas - (or ladies?  Probably not - my wife wonders why I would spend so much on a "light bulb" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  I may get up the courage to order from ebay - its just without a tube tester like Skylab pointed out, you really don't know what you are getting.
   
  To follow up on my original complaints -  I emailed Brenden from tubeworld and he responded very quickly - even late on a saturday night!  I am impressed. 
   
  Ordering straight from Jack is another fine idea.  He does charge a little more, but he deserves our business.
   
   
  The TS 5998 is elusive however.  Brenden said he was out, Jack does not advertise, and I've heard only mixed reviews from vacuumtubes.net.  Perhaps ebay...


----------



## sillysally

Remember one thing, buying a used old tube tester is like buying a tube it may be good and it my be junk. Plus you probably should have it calibrated to make sure.


----------



## emremusic

Thanks! Would it be possible to see a photo of your set up?
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> This is how I set up my 6SE.  I got a 24" umbilical cord from Jack.  He can make different lengths.  He told me that it would have no impact on sound, and my ears tell me he was right.


----------



## spagetka

From WA5 manual:
   
*SPK *– Speaker output
*K1K *– AKG K-1000 headphone output
*HPL *– Headphone Low impedance headphone jack output (8 to 40 ohms)
*HPH *– Headphone High impedance headphone jack output (41 to 600 ohms)
  
    
  Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> In regards to impedance ranges, it is 8-99 ohm for low and 100-600 for high, at least it is for my WA6.  Many amps use 100 ohm or whereabouts to draw the line between "low" and "high" impedance.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> From WA5 manual:
> 
> *SPK *– Speaker output
> *K1K *– AKG K-1000 headphone output
> ...


 
  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* 








 In regards to impedance ranges, it is 8-99 ohm for low and 100-600 for high, at least it is for my WA6.  Many amps use 100 ohm or whereabouts to draw the line between "low" and "high" impedance.

  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________
   
   
  by Silent One
   
   
  To contribute further, from the WA6SE manual:
   
  HIGH: High impedance outputs for headphones that are above 70 ohms. 
  LOW: Low impedance outputs for headphones that are below 70 ohms.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hello Rob, can you tell us about some tube testers that we should keep on the short list?


----------



## sillysally

This is a copy and paste from the WA5LE owners manual.
  High – for high impedance headphones such as 80+ ohms
 Low – for low impedance headphones such as 8 to 100 ohms


----------



## spagetka

seems that manual should be revised too


----------



## grokit

Seems like the impedance cutoff changes by the model. I wonder what the spec'd cutoff is for the WA22, are these manuals online? I can't find it.


----------



## brink

When I purchased my WA22, I received a "WA22 Quick User Manual" by e-mail:
   

```
HI is high impedance output for 60 ohms or above. LO is for low.
```


----------



## Clayton SF

Does anyone know the cutoff for the WA4? I guess my ears would be the best judge but it's good to know. Like the WA5 and WA5LE it's spec'd at 8-800 ohms.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Can you elaborate a bit on why using high impedance with low impedance phones is not ideal?  It seems to be the better option in my case for the K701 (62 ohm).  Running the amp on low results in a flat sound with no drive or PRaT, it feels much more at home with the amp set to the high impedance setting even though the K701 is outside of the ideal load range.  Many users have reported the LCD-2 behaves this way as well at and it too is a low impedance load (50 ohm).
> 
> This is one of those things where I always believed in just trusting your ears and going with whichever seems to sound better, but I'm curious to know the technical/electrical reasoning behind why one should be a better choice than the other.


 

 Trusting your ears is the way to go using the amp one way or the other is not going to heart the output transformers or 6AS7s. I don't know why there is no standards with
  headphones like there is with speakers 4 , 8 , or 16 ohm. It would be expensive and a PITA for a manufacture to make output transformers with all the proper taps for all the
  different impedance headphones out there. I don't know what the impedance of the taps on the output transformers on the Woo amps are but I can explain with the transformers
  in my 300B amps.
    A transformer has a ratio the transformers in my 300B amps are 2500 ohm to 4 , 8 , or 16 my speakers are 8. If I have my 8ohm speakers hooked to the 8ohm tap
  the 300Bs will see a impedance of 2500ohms on the plates. if I hook the 8ohm speakers to the 4ohm tap the 300Bs will see 5000ohms on the plates this normally reduces
  the distortion but lowers the power output. It also changes the operating point of the output tubes that will change the sound.
   By hooking your 62ohm phones to the high impedance you will be getting more power to the phones and you prefer the sound with the 6AS7s running at a lower impedance
  on the plates.
    I hope this explains what is happening.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Hello Rob, can you tell us about some tube testers that we should keep on the short list?


 

 I can really only comment on the two I have - a B&K 650, which is a big, full mutual transconductance tester, and the B&K 606, which is a very compact, emissions tester.  I get very similar results from both.  I bought the 650 calibrated, for about $300.  The 606, which is not as old, I bought for $125, and I use it a lot since it is so compact, and will test some tube types like the 6BQ5, 5670 and 6AS7 that the 650 will not test.
   
  There is a LOT of great info on tube testers here:
   
  http://www.tone-lizard.com/Tube_Testers.html


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Hello Rob, can you tell us about some tube testers that we should keep on the short list?


 
   
  I would highly recommend speaking to Bob Putnak at Tubesound.com.  Bob has spent countless hours with me going over various tube testers and finally helping me decide which one was the best for my purpose.  Bob is a tube tester wiz and sells these fully calibrated and in great condition.  I would not recommend buying one from someone you don't know because you have no idea if it is working or calibrated.  The extra amount you may pay is well worth it in the end.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I would highly recommend speaking to _*Bob Putnak at Tubesound.com*_.  Bob has spent countless hours with me going over various tube testers and finally helping me decide which one was the best for my purpose.  Bob is a tube tester wiz and sells these fully calibrated and in great condition.  I would not recommend buying one from someone you don't know because you have no idea if it is working or calibrated.  The extra amount you may pay is well worth it in the end.


 

 x2
   
  I got my tube tester PACO 10-12 from Bob as well. I am very pleased with this tester but what is front and foremost about Bob Putnak is his excellent customer service.


----------



## Skylab

Definitely good advice. Buying a calibrated tester is important.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2
> 
> I got my tube tester PACO 10-12 from Bob as well. I am very pleased with this tester but what is front and foremost about Bob Putnak is his excellent customer service.


 


 The tube tester looks very nice so do the 6F8G, Clayton. No way to find any in the place I live, sigh.


----------



## Clayton SF

No tube testers in Hong Kong? WHAT??? In your neck of the woods you can find a whole slew of NOS, Mullards, and GECs but no tube testers?


----------



## dannie01

Should have but never seen any for sale in the market. And I think what they got are mostly from US, too. I've tried to grab one from Ebay but it's too heavy for shipment and not sure if it is well calibrated.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Should have but never seen any for sale in the market. And I think what they got are mostly from US, too. I've tried to grab one from Ebay but it's too heavy for shipment and not sure if it is well calibrated.


 
   
  Well judging from the amount of high-quality NOS tubes you've acquired you've done exceptionally well without a tube tester. You've got to trust your source and, to some extent, your instincts too.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I would highly recommend speaking to Bob Putnak at Tubesound.com.  Bob has spent countless hours with me going over various tube testers and finally helping me decide which one was the best for my purpose.  Bob is a tube tester wiz and sells these fully calibrated and in great condition.  I would not recommend buying one from someone you don't know because you have no idea if it is working or calibrated.  The extra amount you may pay is well worth it in the end.


 


   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I can really only comment on the two I have - a B&K 650, which is a big, full mutual transconductance tester, and the B&K 606, which is a very compact, emissions tester.  I get very similar results from both.  I bought the 650 calibrated, for about $300.  The 606, which is not as old, I bought for $125, and I use it a lot since it is so compact, and will test some tube types like the 6BQ5, 5670 and 6AS7 that the 650 will not test.
> 
> There is a LOT of great info on tube testers here:
> 
> http://www.tone-lizard.com/Tube_Testers.html


 

 Thank you both Rob and David.


----------



## Clayton SF

Another great vendor to consider for tube testers and tubes alike is Brent Jesse at audiotubes.com. As most of you already know, he also has a very large collection of tubes both new and old.
  http://www.audiotubes.com/tubetest.htm


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So it is different for every model of Woo amp.  There we have it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Trusting your ears is the way to go using the amp one way or the other is not going to heart the output transformers or 6AS7s. I don't know why there is no standards with
> headphones like there is with speakers 4 , 8 , or 16 ohm. It would be expensive and a PITA for a manufacture to make output transformers with all the proper taps for all the
> different impedance headphones out there. I don't know what the impedance of the taps on the output transformers on the Woo amps are but I can explain with the transformers
> in my 300B amps.
> ...


 

 Thanks Glenn, though no 6AS7s in my case (not yet anyway, someday).  You confirmed what I suspected:  the phones are getting more power.  The K701 is power hungry, so there is a noticeable difference in my case.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I would highly recommend speaking to Bob Putnak at Tubesound.com.  Bob has spent countless hours with me going over various tube testers and finally helping me decide which one was the best for my purpose.  Bob is a tube tester wiz and sells these fully calibrated and in great condition.  I would not recommend buying one from someone you don't know because you have no idea if it is working or calibrated.  The extra amount you may pay is well worth it in the end.


 

 I bookmarked this, thanks for sharing.  Some of those testers look intimidating to be honest.  I think to myself there must be many people like my self who get by with only a user level understanding of the tubes themselves, but I've been thinking more and more I really need to be able to verify the quality of tubes in my collection.  If only to protect the amp, since it is my understanding that a tube with a short can take most of the amp with it in the worst case scenario.


----------



## Clayton SF

To all Wooaffectionados and then some... and of course all Head-Fi people:
  I do believe that all headphone amps can ultimately reach a state of extreme coexistence.
  In other words: They can just all get along--famously.
  Happy Sunday, y'all, from San Francisco.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> To all Wooaffectionados and then some... and of course all Head-Fi people:
> I do believe that all headphone amps can ultimately reach a state of extreme coexistence.
> In other words: They can just all get along--famously.
> Happy Sunday, y'all, from San Francisco.


 

 5Y3 in your WA22?


----------



## Clayton SF

OMG caught in the act in the midst of a transfer! Yes. I pulled out the EML to place it in another amp and I had an RCA 5Y3 with NOWHERE to go so I just plopped it in the WA22 for the time being. Eeek! Not kosher, yes? Hehehe. I listen to it and it did sound sub sub sub par but the WA22 was a holding station for about a day. I am chastened, Mr. Eagle Eye!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> To all Wooaffectionados and then some... and of course all Head-Fi people:
> I do believe that all headphone amps can ultimately reach a state of extreme coexistence.
> In other words: They can just all get along--famously.
> Happy Sunday, y'all, from San Francisco.




Wow, Leben... Lucky guy, how it compare to WA2/22?


----------



## shipsupt

No time to get things looking good... I'm in the middle of swapping out computers next to the rig and that's got cables in an nightmare for now, but you can get the idea.  The umbilical is identical to stock, just, well longer.  Let me know if you were really wanting a few of the rear and I can see what I can capture.
   
  If it's not clear from the poor picture, the stand is actually a lamp.
   

  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Thanks! Would it be possible to see a photo of your set up?


----------



## emremusic

Thanks for the picture shipsopt.. That looks like a nice open shelf to disperse the heat. A tighter, closed off bookshelf could be a bad idea for heat.
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> No time to get things looking good... I'm in the middle of swapping out computers next to the rig and that's got cables in an nightmare for now, but you can get the idea.  The umbilical is identical to stock, just, well longer.  Let me know if you were really wanting a few of the rear and I can see what I can capture.
> 
> If it's not clear from the poor picture, the stand is actually a lamp.


----------



## shipsupt

Yeah, even with the open set up if you put your hand above either of the Woo components you can feel the heat building up under the shelf above... nothing alarming but it reminds me that these things do give off some BTU's.  I wouldn't want to box them up too tightly.
   
  The downsides to my arrangement are that currently the PSU sits on top of my CDP, which is likely not ideal for vibration, but I've not seen/heard any negative impact yet.  I could make an argument that the weight on top of the CDP is a good thing for the player... but I'm not sure anyone is buying that, ha.  I built a small plastic shelf at Tapplastics to keep the AMP elevated about 3" above the Stello DA-100 as this DAC can throw out some heat of it's own.  The Stello has vents on the top of its case.  This solution seems to be working well, as I don't find any undue heat building up there.
   
  There are some compromises with this arrangement, but it fits into my relatively small space and it lets the rig do double duty near my computer and as a bed side set up.
   
   
   

  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Thanks for the picture shipsopt.. That looks like a nice open shelf to disperse the heat. A tighter, closed off bookshelf could be a bad idea for heat.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Yeah, even with the open set up if you put your hand above either of the Woo components you can feel the heat building up under the shelf above... nothing alarming but it reminds me that these things do give off some BTU's.  I wouldn't want to box them up too tightly.
> 
> The downsides to my arrangement are that currently the PSU sits on top of my CDP, which is likely not ideal for vibration, but I've not seen/heard any negative impact yet.  I could make an argument that the weight on top of the CDP is a good thing for the player... but I'm not sure anyone is buying that, ha.  I built a small plastic shelf at Tapplastics to keep the AMP elevated about 3" above the Stello DA-100 as this DAC can throw out some heat of it's own.  The Stello has vents on the top of its case.  This solution seems to be working well, as I don't find any undue heat building up there.
> 
> There are some compromises with this arrangement, but it fits into my relatively small space and it lets the rig do double duty near my computer and as a bed side set up.


 


  You beat me to the punch! I was just fixin' to comment on your photograph. Underway, my midnight to 0300 hours listening session. First up, "Rise Remixes" by Sitar player Anoushka Shankar. Daughter of renowned Indian Sitar player Ravi Shankar, who also fathered Norah Jones (half-sisters). Her remixes are sounding good tonight!
   
  Looking at your photograph, if the visual vertical display of headphones are any indication of preference, my Denon's are in trouble. And if low-man on the pole isn't enough, they're being subjected to the most heat... and that's cold!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Although your P/S has more headroom it generates less heat. 
   
  Looking forward (Summer?), "Decoupling" your gear may yield further gains in sonics. As it stands, you've five items that are all connected - four components and the lamp itself. Which, by the way, may be producing harmful micro-vibrations on its own. But anyone of the four components could be interfering with one or the remaining three components. Isolation and/or placement could take your Woo up a notch. 
   
  How you're addressing the Peas & Carrots (keeping digital & analogue sources separate when/where plugged-in) makes for another post, another time, another place... cheers!


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> You beat me to the punch! I was just fixin' to comment on your photograph. Underway, my midnight to 0300 hours listening session. First up, "Rise Remixes" by Sitar player Anoushka Shankar. Daughter of renowned Indian Sitar player Ravi Shankar, who also fathered Norah Jones (half-sisters). Her remixes are sounding good tonight!
> 
> Looking at your photograph, if the visual vertical display of headphones are any indication of preference, my Denon's are in trouble. And if low-man on the pole isn't enough, they're being subjected to the most heat... and that's cold!
> 
> ...




I knew I should have decorated with audio gear as first priority! 

I'm fighting it, but I'm already thinking about a makeover to better accommodate my gear... Maybe I can get a Head-Fi version one of those HGTV interventions?

As for the Denon's, they are in comfortable reach...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  AH-D7000 ~
   
  O.k, that comforts me!


----------



## emremusic

I have been thinking a lot lately about a better furniture solution for my audio gear, right now I'm using my office at work, but it's really not the best place, and I would like to get away from the computer screen as much as I can. The music coming out from my woo really doesn't match up with the view surrounding it. 
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I have been thinking a lot lately about a better furniture solution for my audio gear, right now I'm using my office at work, but it's really not the best place, and I would like to get away from the computer screen as much as I can. The music coming out from my woo really doesn't match up with the view surrounding it.


 


  Nice shot, I even see Fidelia in the background! Does this mean the Woo will be coming home with you soon? Or you seek a solution for the office?


----------



## emremusic

It will remain in my office, (It's where I play my drums, and practice/rehearse) but I would like a better solution. Also I want to keep the woo away from the computer as I noticed some interference from the internet, or the computer screen. I hear small crackling sounds from the headphones if I surf the internet. 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nice shot, I even see Fidelia in the background! Does this mean the Woo will be coming home with you soon? Or you seek a solution for the office?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> It will remain in my office, (It's where I play my drums, and practice/rehearse) but I would like a better solution. Also I want to keep the woo away from the computer as I noticed some interference from the internet, or the computer screen. I hear small crackling sounds from the headphones if I surf the internet.


 


  Great to have musicians among us. Curiously, are you using wi-fi or ethernet connection for your Mac? If you're wireless sitting that close to the Mac, 'hard-wiring the Mac' will set your Woo free!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> No time to get things looking good... I'm in the middle of swapping out computers next to the rig and that's got cables in an nightmare for now, but you can get the idea.  The umbilical is identical to stock, just, well longer.  Let me know if you were really wanting a few of the rear and I can see what I can capture.
> 
> If it's not clear from the poor picture, the stand is actually a lamp.


 
  Very nice bedside setup. I need a bedside setup like that. Where did you get that lamp?


----------



## shipsupt

clayton sf said:


> Very nice bedside setup. I need a bedside setup like that. Where did you get that lamp?




I found it at a JcPenny home store. It was super convenient to keep a book and my glasses next to bed... Which evolved into it's current audio rack over time.


----------



## emremusic

Yes, I was using wireless, I thought it had to do with the monitor somehow. Ok I'll switch to wire, thank you


----------



## mikemalter

Hope everyone had a great weekend.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Yes, I was using wireless, I thought it had to do with the monitor somehow. Ok I'll switch to wire, thank you


 

  
  Also, during listening sessions turn off Bluetooth on the Mac, keep your 'mobile' on the right side of your desk (anywhere with some distance between your Woo) _and you'll be straight. _FYI - to the delight of 'Pure Music' users, next week's release (version 1.8) is bringing major changes.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> FYI - to the delight of 'Pure Music' users, next week's release (version 1.8) is bringing major changes.


 

 Woohoo! Any hints?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Woohoo! Any hints?


 


  Pure Music v1.8 (the following re-posted from Computer Audiophile)
   
   
  The new Pure Music 1.8, scheduled to be released on June 1, 2011, is a major update including two dozen new features and usability enhancements.

  Three of the new features in Pure Music 1.8 are major-league heavy hitters.

  The first is the unprecedented ability (for a Mac OS audio file player) to directly play DSD format (dsf / dff) audio files, at a user designated PCM sample rate. DSD to PCM conversion is performed in real-time during playback.

  A second major new feature, called “Playthrough,” permits playing other computer audio sources (Internet radio, movies, etc.) through Pure Music, with full access to Pure Music’s dithered volume control, 64 bit crossover, audio EQ plug-ins, NetSend streaming, metering, etc.

  Third, Pure Music 1.8 now includes nonmixable integer stream format support, bypassing all floating point operations on certain DACs. Also included are overall usability improvements, including correcting all known issues involving Gapless playback, including those involving FLAC files.

  The Pure Music 1.8 update will be free for all users.

  Some other new features include:
 - Menu options to disable all DSP options, or disable DSP options except upsampling, mono and invert
 - One-click feature to assist in configuring multiway crossover filters
 - Option to set the range of the signal level meter (100, 60, 30 dB)
 - File format or sample rate conversion and adding FLAC tracks now operate on contents of folders
 - gaplessbreak and monophonic tag options in iTunes to denote preferred gapless album track breaks under low memory conditions or to automatically play tagged tracks in mono
 - 33% more efficient memory usage with gapless albums
 - Now observes Repeat One in iTunes for selected track in any playlist
 - Improved operation of NetSend connect on launch and disconnect options


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Woohoo! Any hints?


 

 Currently my DAC does not support Interger Mode playback. But my new MHDT USBridge may. I know Music Fidelity's V-Link and the Halide bridge is supported. If I discover that the MHDT bridge supports Interger Mode, my WA6SE is gonna be Fat & Happy!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pure Music v1.8 (the following re-posted from Computer Audiophile)
> 
> 
> The new Pure Music 1.8, scheduled to be released on June 1, 2011, is a major update including two dozen new features and usability enhancements.
> ...


 

 Sounds like a Mac is a really nice music server.  Maybe you can bring it when you come by, I'd love to hear it.  I am so struggling with streaming media servers.  I am looking at the new Bryston.


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks for the heads up on the Pure Music upgrade... any threads on here with some information on what to expect, or is there something on the web site?  You've got me curious now!


  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Also, during listening sessions turn off Bluetooth on the Mac, keep your 'mobile' on the right side of your desk (anywhere with some distance between your Woo) _and you'll be straight. _FYI - to the delight of 'Pure Music' users, next week's release (version 1.8) is bringing major changes.


----------



## grokit

Great news on Pure Music, those are big upgrades to an already great program. I'm really glad I own it, as I would expect there will be yet another price increase soon if not to coincide. Anybody that hasn't tried it (that has a Mac) should consider downloading the demo and trying it now while it's still $129.
   
  Mike, a Mac Mini is a great value and would be a lot more fun and versatile than the servers that you're messing with. Just go for the bluetooth keyboard/mouse options and plug it into your TV's hdmi port


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the Pure Music upgrade... any threads on here with some information on what to expect, or is there something on the web site?  You've got me curious now!


 

 Please read up one post (mikemalter's post).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sounds like a Mac is a really nice music server.  Maybe you can bring it when you come by, I'd love to hear it.  I am so struggling with streaming media servers.  I am looking at the new Bryston.


 


  Mac mini ~
   
  I can certainly hold the mini in one hand, while you place my refreshment into the other.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Mac mini (other Macs, too!) makes for a great music server. As compact as things are under the hood, you'll wanna shove a solid-state drive down the little one's throat, followed by more RAM (8gb max, 4 min, but cheaper to get 8 while you're "in there!") for memory play. These moves returned big dividends for me.
   
  Currently racing to get free for your call @ 1600 hours!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Great news on Pure Music, those are big upgrades to an already great program. I'm really glad I own it, as I would expect there will be yet another price increase soon if not to coincide. Anybody that hasn't tried it (that has a Mac) should consider downloading the demo and trying it now while it's still $129.
> 
> Mike, a Mac Mini is a great value and would be a lot more fun and versatile than the servers that you're messing with. Just go for the bluetooth keyboard/mouse options and plug it into your TV's hdmi port


 

 X 2
  He's got a hot-rodded laptop; likely the ipad and iphone in the mix as well. Couple of all of those with screen-sharing & remote capabilities, _and he could be dangerous!  _


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sounds like a Mac is a really nice music server.  Maybe you can bring it when you come by, I'd love to hear it.  I am so struggling with streaming media servers.  I am looking at the new Bryston.


 
   
  Mike, didn't you get a Logitech Touch?  Did you not like it?


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote:


grokit said:


> Great news on Pure Music, those are big upgrades to an already great program. I'm really glad I own it, as I would expect there will be yet another price increase soon if not to coincide. Anybody that hasn't tried it (that has a Mac) should consider downloading the demo and trying it now while it's still $129.
> 
> Mike, a Mac Mini is a great value and would be a lot more fun and versatile than the servers that you're messing with. Just go for the bluetooth keyboard/mouse options and plug it into your TV's hdmi port


 

 x2 
   
  Pure Music with a Mac is one of the best sounding (of course DAC dependent) and easiest to use server options out there. 
   
  I don't even have my computer connected to a monitor, I do all controlling from an iPad. 
   
  I had one of my best and most immersive listening sessions yesterday afternoon with the K1000's, I just didn't ever want it to end. This may have been the first time I have really used them since installing Pure Music and the difference was not subtle. 
   
  The new upgrades are indeed huge, can't wait!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Mike, didn't you get a Logitech Touch?  Did you not like it?


 

 I did, and I think it's a good piece of gear, the problem was that it was just too hot at the high end for me.  Same with the QNAP via my PWD/Bridge.  Anything that streams over the network is just too hot for me. 
   
  I still have the Touch downstairs and with speakers it sounds great.  That was about three weeks ago and it has been playing continuously since then.  Maybe it's a good time for me to bring it upstairs and try it again.  Maybe it got broken in.  I'll let you know how it goes.
   
  I don't know if there is a larger problem here, but I have not been able to listen to anything streamed realtime via a computer or network.  They only thing that sounds really good to me is my iPod via the Wadia i170.  Everything else sounds harsh on the top end.  The PWD is actually back in Boulder at PS Audio and they are looking at it.
   
  Thanks for asking.


----------



## dminches

I am not sure why the method of music delivery would affect the sound. Said another way, if your DAC was fed via a touch or a transport of similar cost I would expect the sound to be very similar. Or am I misunderstanding what you said ?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Quote:
> 
> x2
> 
> ...


 


  I have Pure Music & Audirvana in the rotation...


----------



## vinyllp33

Very interesting, I was not familiar with this program; Now I can see why 8GB of RAM is not a bad idea for their implementation of memory play or even just in general.

I find that this is the better sounding playback method with Pure Music as of course it should be.

How is the Apple Remote interface?

Please keep us posted with your comparisons and impressions.

Cheers.


----------



## FlyingBear

I'd love to do this. I live in Atherton. The only problem is that, unless the mini-meet is held in July, I'll just be a moocher. I'm waiting anxiously for my WES....delayed by 3 weeks for a new revision/parts upgrade that the company is rolling out to in-progress orders.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Since replying to mikemalter earlier today, I've actually been entertaining two thoughts, mini-meet related. My first thought may bring howls and laughter flat-out! Which will eventually subside once y'all realize "He's serious!" I'm seriously thinking about hosting a mini-meet inside a (wait for it)... library. We wouldn't have to contend with a whole lot of unwanted external or unpleasant ambient noises, now would we?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Very interesting, I was not familiar with this program; Now I can see why 8GB of RAM is not a bad idea for their implementation of memory play or even just in general.
> 
> I find that this is the better sounding playback method with Pure Music as of course it should be.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Clean and simple I suppose. Personally, sitting at an 'L-configured' desk with everything at my fingertips (PC; Mac; Audio rack), I've no need for a remote. In a single session though, I used both my iPhone & iTouch just to make sure I could, if I so desired. What interface for your iPad are you using?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> I'd love to do this. I live in Atherton. The only problem is that, unless the mini-meet is held in July, I'll just be a moocher. I'm waiting anxiously for my WES....delayed by 3 weeks for a new revision/parts upgrade that the company is rolling out to in-progress orders.


 

 W-E-S-? Oh, then we'd best do two things: Wait for you. And have Jack 'Overnight' that bad boy! 'Cause each day in transit is a day of potential burn-in.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Whatever we do, we'll be sure to include you. Besides, this is the 'Woo Audio Owner Unite' thread - we should occasionally meet with each other sans gear (over lunch/tea/cafe or stronger) if only to check out our hearing... _"What?!"  _


----------



## shipsupt

vinyllp33 said:


> Very interesting, I was not familiar with this program; Now I can see why 8GB of RAM is not a bad idea for their implementation of memory play or even just in general.
> 
> I find that this is the better sounding playback method with Pure Music as of course it should be.
> 
> ...




I'm a convert to the Apple remote from my iPad. When I got it I figured I'd never use it, but now I use it all the time to control playback from my Apple TV to speakers, an express to one listening set up, and to control my Mac. With AirTunes and the remote there are so many great streaming options.


----------



## avsBuddy

Clayton,
  Why do you have both WA22 and WA2, are there certain aspects of each that you like?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am not sure why the method of music delivery would affect the sound. Said another way, if your DAC was fed via a touch or a transport of similar cost I would expect the sound to be very similar. Or am I misunderstanding what you said ?


 

 No, you got it right.  However I think the issue was with my PWD where audio quality was on the harsh side.  From what I am hearing on the DLIII, it's much better.  I had spent the last three weeks iterating through a number of configurations with my PWD and I think that was where I left it.  I just went back to my iPod/wadia source to try to recover my baseline.
   
  From what I am now hearing, the Touch is sounding nice with the DLIII.  However I just put in a NOS GZ37 rectifier and am breaking that in, so I'll need a few days till everything settles down and I sort out a baseline.  I just can't tell you how the last three weeks totally blew my circuits, so to speak.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> Clayton,
> Why do you have both WA22 and WA2, are there certain aspects of each that you like?


 

 Yes, Clayton; why?


----------



## Silent One

For me to answer that question would be akin to _cheating_. It's his question to answer. But, if Clayton is a no-show in this forum Tuesday...


----------



## nututubes

mikemalter said:


> I did, and I think it's a good piece of gear, the problem was that it was just too hot at the high end for me.  Same with the QNAP via my PWD/Bridge.  Anything that streams over the network is just too hot for me.
> 
> I still have the Touch downstairs and with speakers it sounds great.  That was about three weeks ago and it has been playing continuously since then.  Maybe it's a good time for me to bring it upstairs and try it again.  Maybe it got broken in.  I'll let you know how it goes.
> 
> ...




Mike, just a thought...you described the sound quality as poor when it's streamed. In theory, this should not matter. It's just bits at this point. The dac/amp/headphone is responsible for the sound character.
One thing to remenber is that the better your equipment becomes, the more "revealing" it gets.
Streaming mp3 music as opposed to cd quality files may be a cause for objectional sound qualities because of the equipment's ability to reprduce every nuance.
My 2 cents.


----------



## jerico

vinyllp33 said:


> Quote:
> 
> x2
> 
> ...




X3

I'm doing the same thing - I have 2 headless minis (one in living room for speaker rig, another in bedroom where my Woo is), both hard-wired to my network, with media on a NAS in another room. Memory playback with PM is a great thing.

Also very cool that PM still works when using the "remote" app (though I use VNC more often).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 John, yes - but.  I've been thinking a lot about this.  Unfortunately I'm not an expert in this area, so I am not sure my thinking is correct.
   
  Now that I have my DAC issues sorted out, I've been comparing the sound from my iPod/Wadia source to my Touch and even though they are coming through the same DAC, there is a difference to my ears. 
   
  If we break it down, the Touch is streaming music file data via the TCP/IP Ethernet stack from a server on my network.  Then it takes that stream and with its own [size=10pt]proprietary source code, digitizes it into several streams that include the music and the timing signal, and outputs it via the built-in sound card.  [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]With my iPod/Wadia combination, there is no TCP/IP network between where the music files live and the mechanism to digitize it.  It's all in the iPod and the Wadia functions as an electronic lock box that uses the digital output from the iPod and sends it out its digital outputs.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]So if we look at just getting music data packets to the digitizer on each platform, we're talking about processing masses of data in real-time.  The deal about TCP/IP that is so cool for our world today is that its strength is error correction.  That is, not all data packets arrive in order, but because of information in packet headers, network cards can reorder or request the data be sent again.   For the way we use computers, this works really well.  But for music, there is an issue; the strength becomes a weakness, that is the transport of data is built around recovery not real-time accuracy.  In listening to music, this is problematic because we hear in real time and the ears have no place to store sound and do error checking before sending it on to our brain.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]It's my thinking, and I can be wrong, that this error recovery colors the sound.  That is, although bits is bits, the order of the bits, what bits actually make it to the stream, and how they are synchronized I think is at the heart of streaming data over a network.  To me, and it is hard to verbalize this, there seems to be something extra, something I personally characterize as harshness, or glare or high frequency pressure in music over any streamed device, vs the iPod/Wadia approach.  [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Another company, Bryston, has just come out with the BDP-1, a music player that will only stream music from a thumb drive or connected hard drive.  It does have a network connector, but that is only for a website to control the player, it will not stream over a network.  They have reduced data streaming error issues this way.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]PS Audio is an interesting example with their PWT in that they don't play CD's directly but have a 6 meg buffer that receives file data where it is error corrected first, and then streamed.  My thinking is that something analogous might have to happen on the streaming media side that employ much larger buffers where file data is streamed and then error corrected before play.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Again, I'm no expert and can have much of this wrong.  But, bottom line for me is that I can hear the difference and streaming media has been problematic for me.  I am going to look into the BDP-1.  Also, I see you are using a Logitech Transporter.  Do you think that is a higher quality streaming device than the Touch?  [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]On another subject, yesterday I took delivery of a GZ37 on your recommendation and I am really liking it so far.  I only have about three hours on it, but right from the get go it was very smooth and easy to listen to.  It was really great with classical music.  I'm looking forward to it after 20 hours or so.  I really appreciate your tube recommendations, thank you.[/size]


----------



## dminches

Mike, have you tried connecting a hard drive or a thumb drive to the USB port on the Touch to see if the difference is the Touch itself and not the streaming?  I have not heard people talk about the issues you have identified over at the slimdevices forum.  That doesn't mean they aren't there.


----------



## Nova13

Help!
   
  Searching for a new power tube for my WA3...
   
  I am totally new at tube rolling.... what exactly does all this mean?  (specifically the testing numbers)  Does anyone (or, can anyone) have an opinion on this tube based upon this supplied info?  Can I consider it to be in good shape?
   
   
[size=x-large]*1-Tung Sol-JAN-CTL-5998 Double [] Getter Vacuum Tube*[/size]
  [size=large]*[size=large]This is 1-Tung Sol-JAN-CTL-5998 Double [] Getter vacuum Tube .[/size]*       [/size]
  [size=medium][size=large][size=14pt]_*Tested on a TV/7 tube tester ,the min value-40 .*_[/size][/size][/size]
   
  [size=14pt]_*The test results were 40/40  .*_[/size]
  [size=14pt] [/size]
  [size=14pt]_*[size=large][size=14pt]All tubes are tested 3 times prior to the listing and prior to shipping .[/size][/size]*_[/size]
  [size=14pt] [/size]
  [size=14pt]_*[size=large][size=14pt]All tubes package meticulous and safe .[/size][/size]*_[/size]


----------



## Skylab

That tube is measuring right at the very minimum "good" level.  Not a strong tube.  Might work, but I wouldn;t spend $50 on that - no way.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That tube is measuring right at the very minimum "good" level.  Not a strong tube.  Might work, but I wouldn;t spend $50 on that - no way.


 

 Was just about to say the same thing.
   
  Generally speaking as a rule of thumb (in most cases), take the minimum value and multiple it by 1.5. This would be the minimum value I would accept when looking to purchase a tube. You'll find cases where NOS tubes are double (or higher) then minimum. As tubes are used the testing results will go down eventually. So as Skylab has indicated, starting at 40 with the minimum of 40 isn't a good buy.


----------



## elrod-tom

Hi y'all,
   
  I'm considering purchasing a WA22, and would sure like to hear from some folks about how it pairs with the HD800 and HD600 running in balanced configuration.  Thanks!


----------



## Nova13

So is the minimum value something that is determined by the tube tester itself?  Meaning the tube tester in that case had a min value of 40?  Therefore using your 1.5 rule you'd expect the tubes to test 60/60? (40 x 1.5 = 60)  
   
  Why do they list the results as 40/40?  why two numbers?
   
  Perhaps I am way off.  Thanks for the info guys - I'd like to understand this.
   
   
  Also, what do THESE numbers (the "ma" ones) mean?
   
  1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1971 same date codes
 1 tube) 24/26ma
 1 tube) 23/26.5ma

 1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1973 same date codes
 1 tube) 26/29ma
 1 tube) 27/29ma
   
  Thank you skylab and golfnutz, and whoever else can help.  I very much appreciate your time and information.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> John, yes - but.  I've been thinking a lot about this.  Unfortunately I'm not an expert in this area, so I am not sure my thinking is correct.
> 
> Now that I have my DAC issues sorted out, I've been comparing the sound from my iPod/Wadia source to my Touch and even though they are coming through the same DAC, there is a difference to my ears.
> 
> ...


 


 Mike, does this mean that your using the digital output of the *Touch* to your DAC? Why not the analog out of the Touch built in DAC to your amp?
  Anyway, I'm no expert, but everything that I read here for the past few years suggests that none of the objectionable sound that you hear can come from the digital domain: http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7 
   
  As they say bits is bits, it's 1s and 0s. Ethernet or WI-FI. Once you get to the DAC, and into the analog realm...well that's another discussion.
   
  P.S. as far as the _Transporter vs Touch_, the only difference as far as sound quality goes is due to the different DAC that each product has and yes, most feel the Transporter has a better DAC. But they both handle or process the digital stream in the same way as far as I know. At this level of product lines, and given the current SOTA, discussions involving dither and clocks is a non-issue imo.
  I run my all four of my Logitech boxes on WI-FI, no need for Ethernet...does not effect sound quality...only buffering if the WI-FI is less than adequate.


----------



## Skylab

Nova13, the 5998 lists two numbers because it is a dual triode - there are two sections.  So the "40/40" numbers listed were for sec 1 and 2, not "40 out of 40" or anything like that.  40 was a point on the scale *of that particular tester* that is the "line" between "good" and "bad".  It means nothing more - very arbitrary.
   
  What's far more helpful is to receive a real number for transconductance.  When I sell tubes, I provide the actual transconductance numbers, and what the target "new" transconductance number should be.  Transconductance is  the Ratio of the *change* of output current to the *change* of input voltage (or more specifically, ratio of change in plate current to a change in grid voltage, with plate voltage held constant), is represented by Gm, and is measured in microhomos.  This is a much more useful test result to list when you are selling tubes, and the better testers all are mutual transconductance testers.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Mike, have you tried connecting a hard drive or a thumb drive to the USB port on the Touch to see if the difference is the Touch itself and not the streaming?  I have not heard people talk about the issues you have identified over at the slimdevices forum.  That doesn't mean they aren't there.


 

 That is a very interesting idea.  I'll do that and post.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nova13, the 5998 lists two numbers because it is a dual triode - there are two sections.  So the "40/40" numbers listed were for sec 1 and 2, not "40 out of 40" or anything like that.  40 was a point on the scale *of that particular tester* that is the "line" between "good" and "bad".  It means nothing more - very arbitrary.
> 
> What's far more helpful is to receive a real number for transconductance.  When I sell tubes, I provide the actual transconductance numbers, and what the target "new" transconductance number should be.  Transconductance is  the Ratio of the *change* of output current to the *change* of input voltage (or more specifically, ratio of change in plate current to a change in grid voltage, with plate voltage held constant), is represented by Gm, and is measured in microhomos.  This is a much more useful test result to list when you are selling tubes, and the better testers all are mutual transconductance testers.


 

 TV-7 testers are mutual transcondutance testers. However, there meters don't show the microhomos. They do have a conversion chart if someone wants to know what the actual microhomos is. For the 5998: 40 = 5,000.


----------



## Nova13

Good info guys, thanks.  I can see myself buying a tube tester sometime down the road.
   
  My final question is this:
   
   
  Also, what do THESE numbers (the "ma" ones) mean?

   

  1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1971 same date codes
 1 tube) 24/26ma
 1 tube) 23/26.5ma

 1 low noise pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1973 same date codes
 1 tube) 26/29ma
 1 tube) 27/29ma


----------



## Icenine2

Check around.  I think there are at least three guys here w/those and the WA22.  You can also check out this review since he has those http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm  I have Tesla T-1's and it all sounds really great.  Tube upgrade required though.
  
  Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> Hi y'all,
> 
> I'm considering purchasing a WA22, and would sure like to hear from some folks about how it pairs with the HD800 and HD600 running in balanced configuration.  Thanks!


----------



## Broken Arrow

ok today fedex was at the door with 2 packages. guess what ...... woo audio wa5-le  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  it was boxed perfectly. the color of the black is outstanding. Much better than any photo can do justice.
   
  Told jack that i will wait for the dac to come out so if it's half as good as the amp is then i will be sold.
   
  Jack thanks for the outstanding delivery.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> TV-7 testers are mutual transcondutance testers. However, there meters don't show the microhomos. They do have a conversion chart if someone wants to know what the actual microhomos is. For the 5998: 40 = 5,000.


 

 And given that the target spec for a 5998 is a Gm of 15,500, that is a low reading.  But unless one OWNED a TV-7, you'd have no way of knowing this just by being given a "40". My B&K 650 lists the actual microhomos number, and I can then go reference the spec on the tube datasheet.  Makes things easy for dimwits like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Good info guys, thanks.  I can see myself buying a tube tester sometime down the road.
> 
> My final question is this:
> 
> ...


 

 Well, as I hoped my post above made clear, without knowing what tester they came from, how can we know?  I can *guess* that it refers to plate current, which is nominally 15 mA on a 6DJ8.  But the point is, when someone lists numbers without saying what the numbers are for and how they are derived, they numbers by themselves don't mean very much.


----------



## Icenine2

I just got my replacement EML 5U4G from George at TubesUSA.com  I am super pleased how he handled everything.  Thanks again to George!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Good info guys, thanks.  I can see myself buying a tube tester sometime down the road.
> 
> My final question is this:
> 
> ...


 


 I found this on the internet, so take it for what it's worth.
   
  How can I express transconductance in microhmos if I know the current per volt?  For instance, Euro tube mnuals, like Phillips and Telefunken list the tranconductance of the PF86 as 2.0mA/V.  American manuals express it in microhmos; I'd like to compare some pentodes that show up only in European or NA manuals, both not both.

 A micromho (or microsiemen) is 1 microamp per volt.  So for example 2.0mA/volt is 2000uA/volt or 2000 micromhos.
   
  So you would have to find out what the minimum value is for the tester being used to give those numbers.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> I'm considering purchasing a WA22, and would sure like to hear from some folks about how it pairs with the HD800 and HD600 running in balanced configuration.  Thanks!










  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Check around.  I think there are at least three guys here w/those and the WA22.  You can also check out this review since he has those http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm  I have Tesla T-1's and it all sounds really great.  Tube upgrade required though.


 

  
  I used to have the HD800 but sold it after some time with the LCD-2. I still have the HD600, and all three headphones sound great out of the WA22 but I never did find a tube combo that worked really well for both the HFD800 and the LCD-2. I am currently running the tube combo in the above review (Syl 7236 power tubes, Shuguang Treasure drivers, Sophia Princess rectifier), and it sounds great with the LCD-2 and has good synergy with the HD600 as well. Unfortunately I never did try the HD800 with that combo. With the HD800 I preferred the warmer, more euphonic signature of the TSRPs + EML Mesh plate + TS5998, as it warmed them up a bit. I thought the other combo was more neutral which I prefer with the LCD-2.
   
  MikeM, you have both the LCD-2 and the HD800, and I think you have the tubes that were featured in that review as well. Have you tried that 7236/Treasure/Princess combo with your LCD-2 and/or HD800?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I found this on the internet, so take it for what it's worth.
> 
> How can I express transconductance in microhmos if I know the current per volt?  For instance, Euro tube mnuals, like Phillips and Telefunken list the tranconductance of the PF86 as 2.0mA/V.  American manuals express it in microhmos; I'd like to compare some pentodes that show up only in European or NA manuals, both not both.
> 
> ...


 


   
  By that math those tubes would have a Gm of 27,000, versus a spec for a 6DJ8 of 12,500...that doesn't seem right...


----------



## Leon83

Hello fellow Woo Audio owners. I have some questions about tubes (from a tube noob).
   
  I've owned the WA6 for 4 months now (standard configuration), and I'm thinking about upgrading to better tubes.
   
  This is my rig, by the way: Cambridge DacMagic --> WA6 --> Denon D5000.
   
  First off; which tubes do I actually have now? On the rectifier tube it says "Electron Tube 274B". Is that a 5AR4?
  On the drive tubes it says 6DR7. Are those equal to 6DE7?
   
  What can I expect if I upgrade to Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B + 7N7 drive/power tubes? Will the sound be drastically improved compared to the standard tubes that came with the WA6?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> And given that the target spec for a 5998 is a Gm of 15,500, that is a low reading.


 

 I purchased some 5998 recently which were advertised as testing at 19,800 Gm.  Is this possible or could the seller have tested them wrong?  If 15,500 is target new I either got really good tubes or the numbers were botched.  I know some tubes do test "better than NOS" but 33% over new seems a bit too good to be true.  I really hope it is though, they'll last darn near forever in that case.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





leon83 said:


> Hello fellow Woo Audio owners. I have some questions about tubes (from a tube noob).
> 
> I've owned the WA6 for 4 months now (standard configuration), and I'm thinking about upgrading to better tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Your 274B is...... well, a 274B.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sorry, couldn't resist.  The 274B is not the same thing as as 5AR4, but it is electrically compatible with the amp along with a dozen or so other types of rectifier tubes.  It seems many recent owners are getting a Shuguang 274B as stock now rather than NOS tubes.  The Sophia Princess is the same type of tube that you have now, only made to a higher standard.  If you like the presentation of the 274B tube, setting actual clarity of resolution aside, then you'll probably enjoy the Sophia.  What I mean by presentation are things like how vocals are presented within the stereo image (upfront or behind the instruments), how wide the soundstage is, how fast or slow the dynamics and rhythm appear to be reproduced...... things like that.  Rectifier tubes affect these qualities of the sound a lot, and if you feel the 274B isn't matching your tastes well in one of these areas you can try a different type of tube such as a 5U4G and see if it works better for you.  Decent NOS rectifiers are as little as $20 so you don't have to break the bank to experiment.
   
  The 6DR7 drive tubes in the same family as the 6DE7 but don't sound identical.  For one thing they are higher gain and result in higher output power from the amp than a 6DE7 does.  The 6DE7, 6DR7 and 6CY7 are the small bottle tubes and generally have a more closed in and dynamic sound.  The 6EW7 is a bigger, wider and more relaxed sound, and the 6FD7 sits right in the middle as a kind of best of both worlds tube for many people.  IMO the 7N7 is a better option than any of them.  I use 6SN7 in my WA6 personally, which sounds very similar to the 7N7 and am extremely happy with the results.   What it will bring, more than anything, is an increased sense of refinement and finesse to the sound.  The presentation is more three dimensional and organic sounding, with overall better resolution.  In my case some of the 6SN7 also offer much better bass as well, especially in terms of response (going lower) and control (being "taut" or having a fast atttack to the note).  Impact and actual quantity of bass isn't necessarily better than, say, a 6FD7.
   
  There are no wrong choices, so experiment and have fun.  But now that Jack is doing the 7N7 thing I would definitely give it a try.  7N7 tubes are generally less expensive than 6SN7 as well, though the downside is they are generally less available and have a more narrow list of choices too.  If it were me, I'd find the oldest vintage of Sylvania 7N7 you can find and go from there.  
   
  Best Regards.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> By that math those tubes would have a Gm of 27,000, versus a spec for a 6DJ8 of 12,500...that doesn't seem right...


 

 I think your right. Just finished watching an AVO youtube video and there's a separate test for Gm (which came out as a different reading then mA). Based on that, I would ask the seller what the Gm reading is (what the minimum value on the tester for Gm is as well).


----------



## Nova13

Can anyone comment on their experiences at tubeworld.com?  Brenden there has been very helpful via email.
   
  If their website says NOS, can I assume it tests well and do not need to ask for test results, etc?


----------



## Golfnutz

I've purchased several tubes from there. I've never had to send one back. If he says it's NOS, then I would have no reason not to believe him. All the NOS tubes I purchased from him were NOS. Forgot to mention, he usually has the test results on the invoice or paper work he sends with the tubes.


----------



## Skylab

I have had only good experiences with Brendan at Tubeworld, as well. He's expensive, but his tubes are the real deal.

XCalibur, I think a 19K Gm for a 5998 is not out of the question, but very few tube testers are rally super-precise anyway. At least it would seem you got a strong tube!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Arrived home this afternoon and found some presents on the doorstep... a copy of the 2010 MFSL CD release of "The Yes Album," and a beautiful WA2 with parts upgrades! I could barely contain my excitement. Right now, I'm running WE 421As, Amperex Holland White Label 6DJ8s and Telefunken EZ80s. It's early in the game, of course, but already there's a lot about the WA2 that I prefer over the WA6SE. Stay tuned...


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, OOS!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I purchased some 5998 recently which were advertised as testing at 19,800 Gm.  Is this possible or could the seller have tested them wrong?  If 15,500 is target new I either got really good tubes or the numbers were botched.  I know some tubes do test "better than NOS" but 33% over new seems a bit too good to be true.  I really hope it is though, they'll last darn near forever in that case.


 


 OK, I'm going to challenge .  Neither of my testers go that high. The TV-7/U conversion chart only goes to 15,000 (which is 120 on the meter - that's maximum). The other tester (Western Electric 15560 aka Hickok 539A) also maxes out at 15000. I agree that 15500 is the published target value. I just wonder what tester was used to get that kind of a reading. Meaning, I hope I don't need a third tester...


----------



## Skylab

I'm in the same boat...I can't test 5998's at all. I have to test them as a 6AS7G, and even there, only my emissions tester tests 6AS7Gs.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Arrived home this afternoon and found some presents on the doorstep... a copy of the MoFi Gold CD release of "The Yes Album," and a beautiful WA2 with parts upgrades! I could barely contain my excitement. Right now, I'm running WE 421As, Amperex Holland White Label 6DJ8s and Telefunken EZ80s. It's early in the game, of course, but already there's a lot about the WA2 that I prefer over the WA6SE. Stay tuned...


 

 Really nice!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Very very nice!


----------



## Nova13

I feel like I learned something on here today!  Thanks all.
   
  I also think I've decided on my tubes for my WA3:
   
  a pair 6DJ8 Sylvania JAN NOS 1971 
  7236 SYLVANIA NOS 1962
   
  My last decision is between that NOS 7236 and a lightly used TS 5998.... Its nice knowing either way I go i'll be happy


----------



## Golfnutz

Very nice indeed! Always wanted some MoFi CD's too.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> I feel like I learned something on here today!  Thanks all.
> 
> I also think I've decided on my tubes for my WA3:
> 
> ...


 


 Get both. If not now, consider it for later.  You're never going to know which you prefer unless you experiment. Don't worry, if you get the bug, 'you must have it'...


----------



## Silent One

________________________________________________________
   
   
  Early in the game, perhaps. But your horse entered the backstretch _rather quickly_... congrats!


----------



## Nova13

Both would be awesome, but I am a full time student and money is tight.
   
  Plus, I need to buy more music!  Whats a good setup without the tunes?
   
  Where do you guys (skylab, golf, etc?) get your music?  Download it from hdTracks or the like?  Or just stick to cd's?


----------



## Silent One

Miles Davis ~
   
  Thursday 26 May, one of my long-time favorite local stations is honoring Miles Davis. For those of you at work/home that enjoys listening to background music while doing tasks, Thursday could prove quite the treat! A Miles Davis recording every hour. And at the end of the night, two full hours dedicated to albums "Kind of Blue" & "Bitches Brew." With the former considered the greatest Jazz album ever!
   
  Log-in to kjazz.org and click "Listen Live."
   
   

 

 














  
   

 




KJAZZ 88.1 HONORS THE IMMORTAL MILES DAVIS
 MAY 26, 1926 - SEPTEMBER 28, 1991
 Miles Davis is regarded as one of the most innovative, influential and respected figures in the history of American music. Miles Davis is a Jazz Icon – his music transcends normal boundaries…his remarkable artistic contribution played a crucial role in every major development in Jazz since the mid 1940’s.

 Miles Davis was the most widely recognized jazz musician of his era, an outspoken social critic and an arbiter of style—in attitude and fashion—as well as music. His album _Kind of Blue_ is the best-selling album in the history of Jazz music. His legacy continues to penetrate the Jazz landscape…his influence travels into the future.

 May 26, 2011 is the birth anniversary of Miles Davis (85 years). KJazz 88.1 will feature a selected Miles Davis Recording every hour, Thursday 5/26/2011. Plus, two (2) special features that evening highlighting pivotal points in his amazing career. These special 1 hour programs are hosted by Josh Jackson.
*10pm - Kind of Blue*
 A journey back to the spring of 1959 when this landmark album was recorded. Interviews with Jimmy Cobb…Jackie McLean…and Herbie Hancock.

*11pm - Bitches Brew*
 A journey back to the summer of 1969 when this project created a new template in Jazz. Interviews with Chick Corea…Lenny White…and Bennie Maupin.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Both would be awesome, but I am a full time student and money is tight.
> 
> Plus, I need to buy more music!  Whats a good setup without the tunes?
> 
> Where do you guys (skylab, golf, etc?) get your music?  Download it from hdTracks or the like?  Or just stick to cd's?


 


 I think I'm one of the few that still enjoy using CD's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I think I'm one of the few that still enjoy using CD's.


 

 Then I share the same boat with you. I love CD's. Even when I download from HDtracks I burn them to CDs and play them that way. Very transportable.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Both would be awesome, but I am a full time student and money is tight.
> 
> Plus, I need to buy more music!  Whats a good setup without the tunes?
> 
> Where do you guys (skylab, golf, etc?) get your music?  Download it from hdTracks or the like?  Or just stick to cd's?


 


  I buy from HDtracks, Itrax, cduniverse and other commercial outlets here and abroad. But music is like food. I get it where it can be had. As a student, try not to over look both your public libraries and your school library. A few moons ago, I was researching World music and needed a greater source. So, I approached the Chair of the Music Dept at UC Irvine, Jazz musician James Howard. By the end of the interview, I was granted full media access to their resources - a treasure trove!
   
  And don't forget your friends, family and garage sales either...


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Thanks for the encouragement, fellas. As others here have said, the WA2 is just magic with T1s. They're just so fully fleshed out and real. It's no slouch with the LCD-2s, either, which have a thunderous quality in the bass that I've not heard with either the WA6SE or the Lyr.


----------



## Skylab

Moat of the music I get digitally I get by buying CD's, and of course SACD or DVD-A on the rare occasion it's available. But playback is mostly via lossless files from various iDevices. 

OTOH, I also buy a lot of Vinyl still


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Moat of the music I get digitally I get by buying CD's, and of course SACD or DVD-A on the rare occasion it's available. But playback is mostly via lossless files from various iDevices.
> 
> OTOH, I also buy a lot of Vinyl still


 


  Just by chance, are you in possession of Yamaha R&D Corp's "Session III" studio Lp?


----------



## Skylab

No, sorry, not familiar with that. Should I be?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> OK, I'm going to challenge .  Neither of my testers go that high. The TV-7/U conversion chart only goes to 15,000 (which is 120 on the meter - that's maximum). The other tester (Western Electric 15560 aka Hickok 539A) also maxes out at 15000. I agree that 15500 is the published target value. I just wonder what tester was used to get that kind of a reading. Meaning, I hope I don't need a third tester...


 

 Per the seller's listing they were tested on a Hickock 752A.  The listing was unusually detailed and the seller had a strong history of selling tubes so I had no reason to be wary (I hope).  Part of me is scared to ever invest in a tester now for fear of finding out some of my tube collection is not what I thought I was buying. 
   
  It doesn't seem out of the question, though, assuming the 752A measures to 20,000 or more.  I was reading at alltubetesters.com that the Hickock 539C can read all the way to 60,000um for example.  Perhaps it is all in the conversions for the specific tube in question?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No, sorry, not familiar with that. Should I be?


 


  I mentioned it by chance because I know you love music, love vinyl and have a killer TT. This album is well known in audiophile and collector's circles and thought you might happen to have it. _And if you did..._
   
  I have a pristine copy, actually. But I lack a high-end TT to make a clean (great) vinyl rip. I am seeking a single track at a duration of 7:29. If I am unable to find a fellow head-fier with it in their collection, but may wanna get it for themselves, I'm not beyond shipping the album. Provided both the interest and high-end gear is there.
   
  Yamaha R&D Corp (Glendale, CA) every now and then, would make studio recordings showing off their latest Yamaha gear. And would employ well known Jazz musicians to do this in the studio. One thing I really admire about the third installment is Keiko Matsui. She arrived from Japan as a 17 year old prodigy with the Yamaha Corp and appears on this album (Keiko Doi). 
   
  I was originally drawn of the recording because of bassist Nathan East at the time. And ended up being impressed by Keiko. It's kind of nice to follow someone from University and before their own first album under their name. 
   
  I am dying to hear a wonderfully dynamic rip (96 kHz) of the track "Why Not?" with my WA6SE. My own TT sounds decent, but isn't up to this task.


----------



## Skylab

Sounds fascinating. My main vinyl rig, VPI Scoutmaster/Benz LP-S/Eddie Current Transcription is pretty sweet, but I don't have a way to make 96/24 rips.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Mike, does this mean that your using the digital output of the *Touch* to your DAC? Why not the analog out of the Touch built in DAC to your amp?
> Anyway, I'm no expert, but everything that I read here for the past few years suggests that none of the objectionable sound that you hear can come from the digital domain: http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7
> 
> As they say bits is bits, it's 1s and 0s. Ethernet or WI-FI. Once you get to the DAC, and into the analog realm...well that's another discussion.
> ...


 

 Hey John.  Yes, I'm using the digital out of the Touch to go to my DAC.  The analog outs of the Touch are single ended, and I have a nice DAC and I'll get better performance with it instead of using the internal Touch DAC.
   
  Yes, it bits is bits, but the journey from file to bits is what I think is the issue for me here.
   
  I'm listening tonight to your recommended tube profile and it's really nice.  I've got the TS 5998/ECC32/GZ37 in and although I only have about 10 hours on the GZ37 and not that much more on the 5998's, there is a lot of power and dynamic energy to the music tonight.  How long did it take the 5998 and GZ37 to break in?


----------



## Silent One

Bridge collapse ~
   
  Earlier this evening, I finally got the vendor to 'bench' my USB to S/pdif converter. Both optical and coaxial outputs checked out fine. In my system, however, coax out does not work, only optical. Using a stand alone DVD player's digital outs into the DAC, both optical & coax works fine. I'm at a lost to explain why the DAC likes the DVD coaxial out but not the bridge (my DAC is fine).
   
  Since it appears exchanging units may not resolve the issue, I opted for a refund instead - back to square one. It's now week three and I still don't have all of my new tweeks rolling in concert - the hood remains propped open. However, I noticed this week my in-box is filling up with Memorial Holiday Sales literature from electronic stores. May even decide to knock over another tea tin a buy a new DAC!  When I read the tin's label, I realized "audio" isn't spelled "V-a-c-a-t-i-o-n" but whose watching?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Any Woo Audio amp users here using the new Apogee Duet 2? What are your impressions?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Bridge collapse ~
> 
> Earlier this evening, I finally got the vendor to 'bench' my USB to S/pdif converter. Both optical and coaxial outputs checked out fine. In my system, however, coax out does not work, only optical. Using a stand alone DVD player's digital outs into the DAC, both optical & coax works fine. I'm at a lost to explain why the DAC likes the DVD coaxial out but not the bridge (my DAC is fine).
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe you might want to look into a Monarchy DIP?  I think it does the same thing as the bridge.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Maybe you might want to look into a Monarchy DIP?  I think it does the same thing as the bridge.


 


  The Monarchy could very well steep a fine tea. But, as an upsampler, maybe not my cup. It'd definitely work but not fully accomplish my goals. Now that I discovered a few extra dollars to add to the refund of the bridge, possibilities abound. I can always buy a different bridge, new DAC or no. Sticking with Digital-Out (optical) would allow me to buy an iPad2. This would allow me to read more Head-fi and other electronic articles, as well as books on Vacuum Tube Technology while away from my Mac. Another option would a modified Jkeny-Hiface or EVO.
   
  I think the BDP-95 is just a 'BenFrank' out of reach. Could get it late June but_ I want it now!_ (not surprising). Looks like I'm gonna shop 'till sunrise, checking the F/S forum for used DACs, bridges, and favorite retailers for new options. Time for some hot coco made with 81% European Dark Chocolate & PET Brand evaporated milk...


----------



## emremusic

I'm actually deciding on whether I should get a new dedicated dac or, the Apogee 2. I'm leaning towards Apogee 2, they make very quality products.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Bridge collapse ~
> 
> Earlier this evening, I finally got the vendor to 'bench' my USB to S/pdif converter. Both optical and coaxial outputs checked out fine. In my system, however, coax out does not work, only optical. Using a stand alone DVD player's digital outs into the DAC, both optical & coax works fine. I'm at a lost to explain why the DAC likes the DVD coaxial out but not the bridge (my DAC is fine).
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

I spent the last week or so with a Princess 274B and the Tung Sol 6DE7's in the 6SE and I was quite pleased with the combination.  From my notes; warm, deep strong lows, good instrument separation, mids seem laid back.  Most listening was done with LCD-2, I have been searching for something that works well with them in the Woo.  While I like the Tung Sol's, I think they might be a little too laid back for the LCD's, at least for me.  I will get them back in there at some point for some time with other headphones... I want to hear them with some Grados and the D7000.
   
  Tonight decided to roll something new in.  The last pair of Sylvania fat tube black plate 6FD7's I had were sounding good but my listening was cut short when I started to get a crackle on the right side.  I pulled them for cleaning and they await the arrival of my tube tester, but in the mean time I had picked up another pair and decided I'd give them a try.  I figured I'd give Sophia a rest (yeah, why not change everything at once 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and rolled in a black plate RCA 5U4GB branded for McIntosh.  Right away I am liking what I am hearing with the LCD-2.  This is the best I've heard them from the 6SE.  First thing I noticed, more gain.  My first rough notes: Fast, crisp, bright, dynamic, lively.  Mids and highs forward, prominent.  Lows seem more laid back, but very tight, need more time to get a feel for extension.  Soundstage seems small, intimate, need to give this more time and music samples...  
   
  Unfortunately I've got some travel coming up that's cutting my listening time short tonight and will keep me away from the Woo for a few days, but I look forward to getting back and spending some time with this combination.... it's got me excited about the LCD-2 again.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I'm actually deciding on whether I should get a new dedicated dac or, the Apogee 2. I'm leaning towards Apogee 2, they make very quality products.


 

 We're sitting in the same camp. I just wish I had more feedback on the new version. Upon announcing the new version, I didn't quite understand the secrecy - the usual specs published by a maker were not included on the website leading up to launch - signal-to-noise ratio; dynamic range; THD ect. I called Apogee's customer service on the eve of its debut and the rep told me the most incredible thing. She informed "Oh, they haven't given us that information yet." Then I ask if anyone else sought the same info and she said "No." 
   
  Nor could I find a reviewer of the Duet 2 on the web. Often times a company will make a product available in advance to a reviewer and generate some buzz. Granted, I may have overlooked something, somewhere. But I had a chance to pick one up on day 1 but the above experience left me cold. Now that my bridge has been removed from service, I'm warming up to it. I'm reserved about buying a unit with a pristine sound but a poorly translated bottom end.
   
  In the absence of auditioning, some impressions right or wrong could still give an indication on what to expect. If you pull the trigger, please keep us posted. Heading over to 'Gearslutz' right now to see what else I can find out...


----------



## tupac0306

Order my WA 6 SE last night
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





..
   
  At the moment I listen to music from my laptop. I got 2 DACs. Nuforce HDP and Apogee duet 2.Will they be able to pair with my WA 6 SE well? Or I need to upgrade my dac?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Per the seller's listing they were tested on a Hickock 752A.  The listing was unusually detailed and the seller had a strong history of selling tubes so I had no reason to be wary (I hope).  Part of me is scared to ever invest in a tester now for fear of finding out some of my tube collection is not what I thought I was buying.
> 
> It doesn't seem out of the question, though, assuming the 752A measures to 20,000 or more.  I was reading at alltubetesters.com that the Hickock 539C can read all the way to 60,000um for example.  Perhaps it is all in the conversions for the specific tube in question?


 


 True, my tester goes to 60,000 as well - but that's on the low setting.  The maximum Hi setting is 15,000, which is what the 5998 calls for. He must be using one of the low settings then, and I'm not sure if it's just a one-to-one equivalent or your suppose to divide by either 2 (30,000) or 4 (60,000) to get the actual number. I wish I had a 5998 tube to test with, then I could let you know for certain.


----------



## emremusic

Shipsupt and I were discussing the same thing. 
   
  Right now I'm enjoying my current setup with the Apogee and 6SE, unfortunately I haven't heard any higher quality dacs, so I'm not the most experienced person on this. I bought Apogee because it's so much more than a dac. 
   
  It is very odd about the Apogee 2 not making a big splash. The first one was a Very big deal in the musician community. Nobody seems to be talking about it now. 
   
  I may do something very radical, and save my money and wait!! Instead of upgrading to a new dac right now, I will wait for the new dacs from Woo, and Schiit and see how they compare to Matrix, Little dot and other -$1000 dacs on the scene right now. 
    
  Quote:


tupac0306 said:


> Order my WA 6 SE last night
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tupac0306

Emremusic, Have you got any idea how to connect my duet 2 to WA 6 SE? Since duet 2 upgraded to balanced output from the duet 1. So what kind of cables do I need? unbalanced mono ones? Or stereo ones?

  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Shipsupt and I were discussing the same thing.
> 
> Right now I'm enjoying my current setup with the Apogee and 6SE, unfortunately I haven't heard any higher quality dacs, so I'm not the most experienced person on this. I bought Apogee because it's so much more than a dac.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> Order my WA 6 SE last night
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Both DACS should serve you. Some of us here would like to know more about the Apogee Duet 2 as well (WA6SE owners, too!). Although your waiting for your amp, what's your impression so for with the Duet 2? Did you have or hear the Duet 1? Lastly, does the manual provide the specs that Apogee refuses to publish or comment about - S/N Ratio; Dynamic range; THD and so on... do tell!


----------



## Icenine2

O,
   
  Sweet!!!!  And what a deal too especially with BlackGates!  Do you prefer the T-1 or the LC?  Or both?
  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Arrived home this afternoon and found some presents on the doorstep... a copy of the 2010 MFSL CD release of "The Yes Album," and a beautiful WA2 with parts upgrades! I could barely contain my excitement. Right now, I'm running WE 421As, Amperex Holland White Label 6DJ8s and Telefunken EZ80s. It's early in the game, of course, but already there's a lot about the WA2 that I prefer over the WA6SE. Stay tuned...


----------



## Icenine2

Sky,
   
  The Fleetwood Mac Rumours on 45 RPM remastered by Stevy Hoffman is absolute killer!  I guarantee you've never heard it like this.  I'd heard this 1,000's of times especially w/"Classic Rock" beating to death.  After I started listening I never stopped until the whole album played.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Moat of the music I get digitally I get by buying CD's, and of course SACD or DVD-A on the rare occasion it's available. But playback is mostly via lossless files from various iDevices.
> 
> OTOH, I also buy a lot of Vinyl still


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> O,
> Sweet!!!!  And what a deal too especially with BlackGates!  Do you prefer the T-1 or the LC?  Or both?


 

 I thought that Black Gates were no longer available. That's great you snagged 'em for your WA2.
   
  Under normal use (a few hours a day) how long do you think caps last before you have to replace them? We've all talked about the life of tubes but I also hear that caps have a lifespan as well.


----------



## Icenine2

I've had my EML 5U4G replacement under one day and what a difference.  I had been running my stocker Shu (looked for replacements in Tung Sol etc w/no luck while I was waiting)
   
  BTW-Silver Woo's are dust magnets as well.  You just don't see it!  I use one of those Swiffer Dusters.
   
*Interesting comment by Tyll Herstens concerning measurements of the newer LC's to be better over at the LC thread * http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos/12045#post_7495115
   
  Olias.  Your post had me put on the MFSL Yes.  Sounds great!!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> O,
> 
> Sweet!!!!  And what a deal too especially with BlackGates!  Do you prefer the T-1 or the LC?  Or both?


 
   
  Thanks, Icenine2. As a compulsive A/B'er, I'd have loved to have compared the BG and non-BG versions, but I'm not complaining too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Right now, I'd still have to say that I prefer the Beyers just slightly. The LCD-2s sound great as well, though. My first impression is that I'll reach for the Beyers when I want to listen with my head, and for the LCD-2s when I want to listen with my soul. Sounds kind of Oprah-like, I guess, but...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm listening tonight to your recommended tube profile and it's really nice.  I've got the TS 5998/ECC32/GZ37 in and although I only have about 10 hours on the GZ37 and not that much more on the 5998's, there is a lot of power and dynamic energy to the music tonight.  How long did it take the 5998 and GZ37 to break in?


 


 To be honest Mike, and hopefully not controversial, IMHO, all the tubes I have sound the same to me as they did the first time out of the box. If there is such a "break in" phenomena, I can't tell the difference. Further, if there is a difference, it must be minute.
  I feel the same way about interconnects, headphone cables, headphones, amps, preamps etc. If they sound good on day one, it's a keeper. Any changes that occur later on would be hard to detect unless you can actually remember what it sounded like earlier.
   
  This is why I find it difficult to roll tubes. By the time I shut down the amp, let it cool, replace tubes, turn it back on, let it warm up....I can't make a judgment like this. If I had a switch and could A/B test the tubes, it might be different. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Consider also that @ 62 yrs., I might just be hard of hearing.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I thought that Black Gates were no longer available. That's great you snagged 'em for your WA2.
> 
> Under normal use (a few hours a day) how long do you think caps last before you have to replace them? We've all talked about the life of tubes but I also hear that caps have a lifespan as well.


 

 I picked this amp up over at Audiogon. Someone had actually posted the link here, and after the WA2 not selling for a week, I couldn't take it anymore and rescued it from limbo. Jack has removed the BG upgrade from his page, but even though it's not officially available I suspect he's got a few more caps lying around if anyone asks...
   
  I have relatively limited experience with the BGs, so I can't really comment on longevity. I believe my Mapletree Super II used the Blackgates, but I only had it for about six months and experienced no failures during that time. Anyone?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Olias.  Your post had me put on the MFSL Yes.  Sounds great!!


 


  I'm pretty impressed with the MFSL "Yes Album" as well. I have the original (non-remaster) CD from back in the 80s and a relatively early vinyl pressing. The MoFi version is an improvement over both, and though it's not a night and day difference I'm sure I'll reach for the MFSL from now on.


----------



## Icenine2

I agree.  Now if they could only get a great Close to the Edge (throw in Brain Salad too-I think I own every version of that one except SACD)
   
  BTW-I posted the link from Audiogon.
   
  Heres a Black WA22 for sale $1600/no tube upgrade http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/555140/fs-woo-audio-wooaudio-wa22
   

  
  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I'm pretty impressed with the MFSL "Yes Album" as well. I have the original (non-remaster) CD from back in the 80s and a relatively early vinyl pressing. The MoFi version is an improvement over both, and though it's not a night and day difference I'm sure I'll reach for the MFSL from now on.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I've had my EML 5U4G replacement under one day and what a difference.  I had been running my stocker Shu (looked for replacements in Tung Sol etc w/no luck while I was waiting)
> 
> BTW-Silver Woo's are dust magnets as well.  You just don't see it!  I use one of those Swiffer Dusters.
> 
> ...


 

 Mullard GZ37 is an excellent replacement at less then half the price.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Mullard GZ37 is an excellent replacement _*at less then half the price.*_


 

 ... for now, at least.


----------



## tupac0306

The duet 2 only contained a short manual in the box. Some specs on the box which is exactly the same as said on their website. I never owned or heard duet 1 before. So here I can't make any comparisons. I did compared it with my Nuforce HDP amp/dac which I believed received some really positive reviews on its hp amp and dac in this forum. By just listening to the built-in hd amp in duet 2 without any external amp. It sounds almost the same as my Nuforce amp. It drives my denon 5000 and edition 8 really well with large enough volumes (which I find wont be using, I normally put the volume to 1 o clock)  I know it's famous for its mic preamp. But I would be happy if I just use it as a hp amp or dac. At the moment I am hving some troubles pairing duet 2 to a proper headphone amp. I dun know what kind of cables should I use since it has balanced output which is different from duet 1. I guess that's all I can tell you so far.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Both DACS should serve you. Some of us here would like to know more about the Apogee Duet 2 as well (WA6SE owners, too!). Although your waiting for your amp, what's your impression so for with the Duet 2? Did you have or hear the Duet 1? Lastly, does the manual provide the specs that Apogee refuses to publish or comment about - S/N Ratio; Dynamic range; THD and so on... do tell!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ... for now, at least.


 

 Hmmm, don't know about that. Tubeworld has a "Hot Deal" on them right now. 4 for $300. The problem is I wouldn't want 4 of them, since I prefer the EML 5U4G (5U4G 70%, GZ37 30% use in my amp). It may be possible EML is helping to keep the price of some of these NOS rectifier tubes down as there is less demand for them. Still, an excellent replacement tube for the money.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> To be honest Mike, and hopefully not controversial, IMHO, all the tubes I have sound the same to me as they did the first time out of the box. If there is such a "break in" phenomena, I can't tell the difference. Further, if there is a difference, it must be minute.
> I feel the same way about interconnects, headphone cables, headphones, amps, preamps etc. If they sound good on day one, it's a keeper. Any changes that occur later on would be hard to detect unless you can actually remember what it sounded like earlier.
> 
> This is why I find it difficult to roll tubes. By the time I shut down the amp, let it cool, replace tubes, turn it back on, let it warm up....I can't make a judgment like this. If I had a switch and could A/B test the tubes, it might be different.
> ...


 

  
  Not controversial at all, we each have our own experiences.  Whatever your process is for finding tubes, please keep me in the loop, I like what you are using.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I agree.  Now if they could only get a great Close to the Edge (throw in Brain Salad too-I think I own every version of that one except SACD)


 
   
  I've read that the MFSL vinyl-only _Close to the Edge_ is a revelation, but I've never been tempted to pay the price they command (there was one at Audiogon for $160 earlier in the week).


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> Order my WA 6 SE last night
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congratulations on the 6SE. As far as your sources go, how about you tell us which is better? Both should be respectable DACs, the better pairing will depend upon system synergy and your preference.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> To be honest Mike, and hopefully not controversial, IMHO, all the tubes I have sound the same to me as they did the first time out of the box. If there is such a "break in" phenomena, I can't tell the difference. Further, if there is a difference, it must be minute.
> I feel the same way about interconnects, headphone cables, headphones, amps, preamps etc. If they sound good on day one, it's a keeper. Any changes that occur later on would be hard to detect unless you can actually remember what it sounded like earlier.
> 
> This is why I find it difficult to roll tubes. By the time I shut down the amp, let it cool, replace tubes, turn it back on, let it warm up....I can't make a judgment like this. If I had a switch and could A/B test the tubes, it might be different.
> ...


 
   
  While I do feel that I can hear differences from one set of tubes to another, I do wonder if people listen to the same recording over and over when they replace a tube or another component / accessory.  I have a couple recordings that I use as my test medium.  I don't feel like I can really gauge differences if the recordings are different.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dminches said:


> While I do feel that I can hear differences from one set of tubes to another, I do wonder if people listen to the same recording over and over when they replace a tube or another component / accessory.  I have a couple recordings that I use as my test medium.  I don't feel like I can really gauge differences if the recordings are different.


 

 Agree 100% Dave. I use four recordings when I roll, but I still find it difficult to use what I call the "muscle memory" of my ears. Curiously enough however I find that I have a "go to" combination of tubes that I like for whatever reason. Just can't put it into words.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Agree 100% Dave. I use four recordings when I roll, but I still find it difficult to use what I call the "muscle memory" of my ears. Curiously enough however I find that I have a "go to" combination of tubes that I like for whatever reason. Just can't put it into words.


 

 I just placed a self-moratorium on tube rolling on all of my amps for 2 months. I decided to do this because I found myself comparing music rather than listening to music. Since I started this StopTubeSwap I've been able to just relax and close my eyes and enjoy the music. I'm 4 days into this. Let's see how long this lasts!


----------



## dminches

With all this high end equipment and the ability to tweak the sound, there is a tendency for us spend time listening to our equipment and not the music.  In that light, I have never rolled tubes in my Leben.  I love how it sounds.  I have no need to tweak it.
   
  Back to everything woo....


----------



## Skylab

I'm right there with ya, David. And actually, I tend NOT to roll tubes except at the very beginning. I haven changed the tubes in my WA2 or WA6 since finding a combo I liked shortly after I got the amps. Of course I had the advantage of already having a lot of tubes to try in them right from the beginning. But once I find something I'm happy with, I tend to stay with it for a long time.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> With all this high end equipment and the ability to tweak the sound, there is a tendency for us spend time listening to our equipment and not the music.  In that light, I have never rolled tubes in my Leben.  I love how it sounds.  I have no need to tweak it.
> 
> Back to everything woo....


 
  That's what I did six months ago. I put all of the original stock tubes back into my Leben CS300XS and shelved the Siemens. I've been listening to the Leben with its original tubes since then and I am happy. I'll only replace them when they go bad.
  
  Back to everything woo....


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just placed a self-moratorium on tube rolling on all of my amps for 2 months. I decided to do this because I found myself comparing music rather than listening to music. Since I started this StopTubeSwap I've been able to just relax and close my eyes and enjoy the music. I'm 4 days into this. Let's see how long this lasts!


 


   


  Quote: 





dminches said:


> With all this high end equipment and the ability to tweak the sound, there is a tendency for us spend time listening to our equipment and not the music.  In that light, I have never rolled tubes in my Leben.  I love how it sounds.  I have no need to tweak it.
> 
> Back to everything woo....


 


 Very interesting statement on moratorium. I agree and I have stopped rolling tubes as of a week or so. I think I'm where I want to be ....ECC32/TS5998/GZ37.
  I agree it's time to listen and enjoy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at least for awhile.


----------



## Wedge

My WA-22 has been ECC32/TS5998/5U4G since I got it.


----------



## Silent One

Are we not addicts undercover? _The horror!  _




   
  Even if I had new tubes stacked up like Jets @ LAX during 'Holiday', I tend leave mods, tweeks and other changes in for an extended period of time. Preferring to emotionally connect or give myself a chance to, in the event it ain't happening just yet. Occasionally though, _some tubes are so bad, I'll walk away for three days even after their replacement _(bad tastes can linger as long as the good ones).
   
  Generally, 21-30 days allows me to enjoy the music first, while I appreciate, understand or disdain any of the recent changes made.


----------



## tupac0306

No problem~ I will try them on soon as they get here with denon, t1 and edition 8.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congratulations on the 6SE. As far as your sources go, how about you tell us which is better? Both should be respectable DACs, the better pairing will depend upon system synergy and your preference.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> While I do feel that I can hear differences from one set of tubes to another, I do wonder if people listen to the same recording over and over when they replace a tube or another component / accessory.  I have a couple recordings that I use as my test medium.  I don't feel like I can really gauge differences if the recordings are different.


 

 Me too.  I have a couple of reference "go to" recordings back from when I used to write for Positive-Feedback and I go to those for testing.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wedge said:


> My WA-22 has been ECC32/TS5998/5U4G since I got it.


 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are we not addicts undercover? _The horror!  _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm with SilentOne on duration.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm with SilentOne on duration.


 

  
  Sampling tunes, food & drink can be fun. However, most of the time I want to find (discover) something to savor... _and let it linger quite nicely._


----------



## nututubes

wedge said:


> My WA-22 has been ECC32/TS5998/5U4G since I got it.




Yum!


----------



## Artie17

I just got my WA6 SE and WOW : ) I feel like my HD650's just took steroids.
   
  Everything just sounds better. Bigger sound stage, more clarity, impact, and tighter bass, better instrument separation, and overall made everything sound more dynamic. I didn't think I would hear such a big difference going from a LD MKIV SE to the WA6 SE.
   
  Next up is a source upgrade from the Prelude. Back to the amp I go : )


----------



## Xcalibur255

I can hardly keep any tube combo in my amp more than a month.  To some extent I just enjoy the variety and change, plus tubes which are strong in specific frequency ranges tend to bring out different details in music helping to keep old songs fresh sounding.
   
  I've been tempted to do a writeup on all the Sylvania tube rolling I've done recently, but I feel it would end up being a mess of conflicted thoughts in the end.  I have (not at all intentionally I must add) somehow accumulated just about every single variety of T-plate type Sylvania tube out there.  The super super short version just in case I never write it:  IMO there are no falsehoods about what is written about tubes such as the Bad Boy.  Each one of these tubes, despite having 3-hole plates that appear the same, have their own sonic signature that is easily differentiated from each other.  The differences are not huge, but they are there for sure.  Right now I'm quite enamored with the 3-hole plate short bottle chrome top version.   It is slightly darker sounding and more revealing in the lower mids than the bad boys are, and the bass is clearly better....... better than any tube I own except for the black glass tung sols (which I feel they are nearly on par with for bass quality and articulation/tautness), or perhaps the Raytheon VT-231 ladder plates.  These three are the only 6SN7 whose bass I feel is truly excellent out of what I have personally heard, all the others feel a bit flabby in terms of control.  They were cheap too!  I ordered a second pair from the same seller just to confirm (and have backups), that this sound is representative of this particular variation of Sylvania tube.  It mates beautifully, darn near perfectly, with the K701.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I can hardly keep any tube combo in my amp more than a month.  To some extent I just enjoy the variety and change, plus tubes which are strong in specific frequency ranges tend to bring out different details in music helping to keep old songs fresh sounding.
> 
> I've been tempted to do a writeup on all the Sylvania tube rolling I've done recently, but I feel it would end up being a mess of conflicted thoughts in the end.  I have (not at all intentionally I must add) somehow accumulated just about every single variety of T-plate type Sylvania tube out there.  The super super short version just in case I never write it:  IMO there are no falsehoods about what is written about tubes such as the Bad Boy.  Each one of these tubes, despite having 3-hole plates that appear the same, have their own sonic signature that is easily differentiated from each other.  The differences are not huge, but they are there for sure.  Right now I'm quite enamored with the 3-hole plate short bottle chrome top version.   It is slightly darker sounding and more revealing in the lower mids than the bad boys are, and the bass is clearly better....... better than any tube I own except for the black glass tung sols (which I feel they are nearly on par with for bass quality and articulation/tautness), or perhaps the Raytheon VT-231 ladder plates.  These three are the only 6SN7 whose bass I feel is truly excellent out of what I have personally heard, all the others feel a bit flabby in terms of control.  They were cheap too!  I ordered a second pair from the same seller just to confirm (and have backups), that this sound is representative of this particular variation of Sylvania tube.  It mates beautifully, darn near perfectly, with the K701.


 


  Considering price and availability, I think the 'Rays' are under appreciated...


----------



## emremusic

I have 1/4 inch jack to rca cables. RCA end goes to woo, and the jack goes into the Apogee's breakout cable. I have the old apogee duet which is a bit different. it also doesnt have the balanced output. i dont think you can use the balanced out to the Woo.
   
  I;m also using my apogee headphone out with my 701s. I'm doing this sometimes not too wear out my Woo, and so I can save the tubes.. Ofourse the apogee head out is not as good, -especially when you turn it up all the way, it sounds harsh, but the Woo6se sounds so smooth even turned really up.
   
   
  Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> Emremusic, Have you got any idea how to connect my duet 2 to WA 6 SE? Since duet 2 upgraded to balanced output from the duet 1. So what kind of cables do I need? unbalanced mono ones? Or stereo ones?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I have 1/4 inch jack to rca cables. RCA end goes to woo, and the jack goes into the Apogee's breakout cable. I have the old apogee duet which is a bit different. it also doesnt have the balanced output. i dont think you can use the balanced out to the Woo.
> 
> I;m also using my apogee headphone out with my 701s. I'm doing this sometimes not too wear out my Woo, and so I can save the tubes.. Ofourse the apogee head out is not as good, -especially when you turn it up all the way, it sounds harsh, but the Woo6se sounds so smooth even turned really up.


 


  I too, have four outputs (balanced & unbalanced) in the rear of my DAC: pair of TS Mono 1/4 > RCA > WA6SE. 'Balanced Out' would still leave your Woo with an unbalanced signal inside...


----------



## Clevor

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I picked this amp up over at Audiogon. Someone had actually posted the link here, and after the WA2 not selling for a week, I couldn't take it anymore and rescued it from limbo. Jack has removed the BG upgrade from his page, but even though it's not officially available I suspect he's got a few more caps lying around if anyone asks...
> 
> I have relatively limited experience with the BGs, so I can't really comment on longevity. I believe my Mapletree Super II used the Blackgates, but I only had it for about six months and experienced no failures during that time. Anyone?


 

 Jack is still offering the Blackgates for - what else? The WA5. I guess stock is getting low. Which is why I pulled the trigger on a WA5SE now. He will be using different caps for his new monoblock amp.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clevor said:


> Jack is still offering the Blackgates for - what else? The WA5. I guess stock is getting low. Which is why I pulled the trigger on a WA5SE now. He will be using different caps for his new monoblock amp.


 

 I did a mod once with Auria caps and it had the most 3-dimensional soundstage I ever heard.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I agree and I have stopped rolling tubes as of a week or so. I think I'm where I want to be ....ECC32/TS5998/GZ37.
> I agree it's time to listen and enjoy.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I can hardly keep any tube combo in my amp more than a month.


 

  
  I am with *nunu* and others who have posted that they are pretty much done with tube rolling. I could see getting a backup set for the tubes that I have in my WA22 now (Princess, Treasures, Syl 7236), but that's about it unless I get another headphone that has very different tubular needs than my LCD-2 like the HD800 I had for a while along side of it. My HD600 sounds good with my current combo, and I have a feeling that there are other headphones out there that also match up well with my LCD-2 from a tubular perspective (I'm looking at you HE-500). I have been meaning to give the HD800 another chance sometime but my eye is definitely wandering. I have on hand a brand new EML 5U4G, a few other rectifiers, some very nice 6SN7GT and equivalents, two pairs of TS 5998, 6080, etc. Unless something changes, I have no desire to roll around with any of them. At least I can play around with the 6SN7GTs in the tube buffer on my high-powered rig.


----------



## Icenine2

Tube Rolling vs. Listening.  For me I found a combo that sounds really great w/my Tesla T-1's: EML 5U4G, ShuGuang Treasures matched and the stock GE 6080's (yeah, you read that right........stock).  I listened w/all the stock tubes initially and then swapped for the Treasures, then the EML.  Sounds great, I'm done and just enjoy listening to music.  Are there better tube options?  I don't know.  I'd like to get some GEC's but the price is out there so this is it for me.  My most recent experience of having my EML blow and listening to the stocker Shu for a month was a revelation that indeed I wasn't imagining any of the attributes of tubes.  However...........no tube rolling.  Just listening.
   
  This does not exclude me from the "I'd like a 5/5LE club" however.  Plus I do have the Cavalli Liquid Fire coming in about a month (very few tube rolling options there).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> No problem~ I will try them on soon as they get here with denon, t1 and edition 8.


 


  Time is of essence... PM sent!


----------



## tupac0306

I just emailed duet 2 technique support. They said it will work fine as a DAC with balanced output. either the mono 1/4 to RCA cable or stereo one will work. Let's wait and see


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> I just emailed duet 2 technique support. They said it will work fine as a DAC with balanced output. either the mono 1/4 to RCA cable or stereo one will work. Let's wait and see


 

 If and when you decide to go 'balanced', your Duet 2 will be waiting in the wings. After a power nap, I'm going to check for availability, as well as for 'Integer Play' under Pure Music & Audirvana. It may prove to be a deal breaker if Apogee is without support. Will let you know what I decided later today.
   
_To be continued..._
  Tale of the DAC: "A DAC with 9 Lives" or "DAC Stabbing Drama!"


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> I just emailed duet 2 technique support. They said it will work fine as a DAC with balanced output. either the mono 1/4 to RCA cable or stereo one will work. Let's wait and see


 

 I would think that you would have to use the stereo TRS jacks if you want truly balanced, either to the same or 3-pin XLR.


----------



## Silent One

Quote:


tupac0306 said:


> Emremusic, Have you got any idea how to connect my duet 2 to WA 6 SE? Since duet 2 upgraded to balanced output from the duet 1. So what kind of cables do I need? unbalanced mono ones? Or stereo ones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Tube Rolling vs. Listening.  For me I found a combo that sounds really great w/my Tesla T-1's: EML 5U4G, ShuGuang Treasures matched and the stock GE 6080's (yeah, you read that right........stock).  I listened w/all the stock tubes initially and then swapped for the Treasures, then the EML.  Sounds great, I'm done and just enjoy listening to music.  Are there better tube options?  I don't know.  I'd like to get some GEC's but the price is out there so this is it for me.  My most recent experience of having my EML blow and listening to the stocker Shu for a month was a revelation that indeed I wasn't imagining any of the attributes of tubes.  However...........no tube rolling.  Just listening.
> 
> This does not exclude me from the "I'd like a 5/5LE club" however.  Plus I do have the Cavalli Liquid Fire coming in about a month (very few tube rolling options there).


 

 I love the GE 6080's.  Really smooth.


----------



## Dennis

Quick question!
   
  Has anyone ever tried TELEFUNKEN 6922 Gold Pin?   Does it worth $200? (matched pair with same date code)
   
  Thanks


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clevor said:


> Jack is still offering the Blackgates for - what else? The WA5. I guess stock is getting low. Which is why I pulled the trigger on a WA5SE now. He will be using different caps for his new monoblock amp.


 



 Congrats on getting a great amp.
   
  You may want to ask Jack if he can do the parts upgrade that he used before he modified the parts upgrade on the WA5/LE.
  The only tube upgrade I would get from Jack is the EML 5U4G's. For power and drive tubes most of us with the WA/LE use Nos tubes.
  When I got my WA5LE Jack had some ALPS RK50 pot's left from a power buy, so he gave my a fair price on upgrading to the ALPS RK50 pot.
   
  I have no interest in getting Jack's new mono block amp. I have one last experiment/comparison to my WA5LE coming soon, but I think this vintage amp will be just one more dud in comparison to my WA5LE. I should add that I use the HE6 headphones for my system.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Was really really hoping for a brief reply to this. If not in this thread, maybe in the Leben thread. Nothing too elaborate, just a couple of comparisons. Pleaseeeeee.....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Was really really hoping for a brief reply to this. If not in this thread, maybe in the Leben thread. Nothing too elaborate, just a couple of comparisons. Pleaseeeeee.....


 

 Sorry. I got distracted by something shiny, and I'm not good at reviews.
   
  The Leben is used with its stock tubes--that is the Sovtek EL84 and the Russian 12AX7 equivalents (I can't see the printing on the tube).
  The WA2 has Mullard CV2984 (6080), Mullard EZ81 (square getters 1940s), and Mullard CV2493 (6922).
  The WA22 has stock tubes from Jack. Rectifier in the picture (as identified by Xcalibur255) has been replaced by Brimar CV1863 (5Z4) (1950s).
   
  The WA22 has incredible detail and depth over the WA2 and Leben.
  The WA2 has great definition but its presentation is a little bit more forward than the Leben and WA22. It comes off (with the CV2984) as very analytical. When I use the RCA 6AS7 the sound is more pleasurable, more fluid and less fatiguing than with the CV2984. I've left the CV2984 in because I've stopped tube rolling and want to get used to this sq for a while.
   
  The Leben with stock tubes has nice warmth but has lost some of its 3D signature over the Siemens (1967) that I've shelved for later. I really enjoy the Leben at night while relaxing on my couch reading.
   
  The WA22 is my folk, light rock, and vocals. Bass is very tight. Mids are sweet and smooth with a bit of airiness around them and the highs have that sparkle I hear about especially with classical music--triangles and cymbals sound like what they're supposed to. The Leben carries that sweetness about it as well but it is slightly compressed when compared to the WA22 and the highs are slightly rolled off at the top but not too much.
   
  HP=Beyer DT990 600ohms, K701, HD650.
  mates: DT990>WA22, K701>Leben, HD650>WA2 (the HD650 tempers the WA2's brightness).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sorry. I got distracted by something shiny, and I'm not good at reviews.
> 
> The Leben is used with its stock tubes--that is the Sovtek EL84 and the Russian 12AX7 equivalents (I can't see the printing on the tube).
> The WA2 has Mullard CV2984 (6080), Mullard EZ81 (square getters 1940s), and Mullard CV2493 (6922).
> ...


 

 Clayton, thank you, thank you, thank you.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ You're welcome. PM me if you want and I will do my best to address particular questions you may have on the Leben. YMMV on your headphones of choice. I hear the LCD-2 has taken some ppl by storm. I do not own the LCD-2. Wish I did as well as the HD800. and and and and


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Thanks for your insights, Clayton. Did you extensively roll rectifiers on your WA2? I have some Telefunken EZ80s at the moment and some Tungsrams (cheap) on the way, but am really curious about the square getter Mullard EZ81s. Thanks.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ You're welcome. PM me if you want and I will do my best to address particular questions you may have on the Leben. YMMV on your headphones of choice. I hear the LCD-2 has taken some ppl by storm. I do not own the LCD-2. Wish I did as well as the HD800. and and and and


 

 I'm still on the fence with the LCD-2 (only because I'm very happy with the HD800).  I don't want to turn this into WA22 vs Leben discussion, so I'll just say I was surprised by your comments (in a very positive way). Again, thanks for you honesty (I'm sure other's appreciate the comparisons as well).


----------



## Wedge

I really didn't find that the WA-22 was more detailed than the Leben.  Just me.  I am using Sylvania 5751 Black Plate 3 Micas, and Sylvania 6BQ5s or Mullard EL 84s in my Leben.  I have the ECC32/TS5998/RCA NOS 5U4G.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I really didn't find that the WA-22 was more detailed than the Leben.  Just me.  I am using Sylvania 5751 Black Plate 3 Micas, and Sylvania 6BQ5s or Mullard EL 84s in my Leben.  I have the ECC32/TS5998/RCA NOS 5U4G.


 

 Ah, I bet it has something to do with those beautiful Sylvania 5751 BP 3 Micas and Sylvania 6BQ5s. I'm using stock tubes in my Leben at the moment.
   
  I do love the Brimar 5Z4G rectifier in the WA22.


----------



## Skylab

Here is no doubt that the Leben sounds far better with really good NOS tubes, IMO. The stock driver tubes are especially poor. Leben was even supplying NOS GE 5751's for quite a while, until I guess their supply dried up. 

I have never heard a WA22 but I am seriously thinking of selling my WA2 and getting a WA22, since everyone in this thread who has one gives it such high marks!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I really didn't find that the WA-22 was more detailed than the Leben.  Just me.  I am using Sylvania 5751 Black Plate 3 Micas, and Sylvania 6BQ5s or Mullard EL 84s in my Leben.  I have the ECC32/TS5998/RCA NOS 5U4G.


 

 It's the only HP amp I've owned, so I have nothing to compare it to other then my main HT/Stereo system. What I can say, it's the only system that I've never had any listening fatigue whatsoever. I don't know if that's just the nature of headphone systems in general, or just this combination. I have no reservations recommending it.
  
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Here is no doubt that the Leben sounds far better with really good NOS tubes, IMO. The stock driver tubes are especially poor. Leben was even supplying NOS GE 5751's for quite a while, until I guess their supply dried up.
> 
> I have never heard a WA22 but I am seriously thinking of selling my WA2 and getting a WA22, since everyone in this thread who has one gives it such high marks!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> ^ You're welcome. PM me if you want and I will do my best to address particular questions you may have on the Leben. YMMV on your headphones of choice. I hear the LCD-2 has taken some ppl by storm. I do not own the LCD-2. Wish I did as well as the HD800. and and and and





Too bad, if I knew I have time, I would bring both for you to do a comparison.


----------



## Wedge

I like the WA-22.  Its in my opinion in the same class as the Leben and Apex P/V.  I find the WA-22 the most lush and musical of the bunch, but in general I like a more neutral sound, but really I don't feel like the differences are night and day at all.  They are all pretty close in my opinion, just leanings one way or another.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I like the WA-22.  Its in my opinion in the same class as the Leben and Apex P/V.  I find the WA-22 the most lush and musical of the bunch, but in general I like a more neutral sound, but really I don't feel like the differences are night and day at all.  They are all pretty close in my opinion, just leanings one way or another.


 

 That's a pretty good generalization, which is along the same lines as I was thinking. Although, the Leben is an integrated amplifier which is a nice feature for the benefit of adding speakers.


----------



## grokit

While I haven't had the pleasure of listening to a P/V or a Leben, the lushness or neutrality of the WA22 highly depends on tube selection. It's not called Woo's most euphonic amp without a reason.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> While I haven't had the pleasure of listening to a P/V or a Leben, the lushness or neutrality of the WA22 highly depends on tube selection. It's not called Woo's most euphonic amp without a reason.


 

 And wouldn't you go as far to say the source, IC, and DAC also play an important role as well? I should take up collecting butterflies.


----------



## grokit

Yes, I was just speaking of the amp but would really like to try an upgraded dac/source like a NFB-1ES as I have a feeling that I would get to another level. Having said that, I am really happy with my Bravo word clock > Matrix Mini-i balanced dac which was pretty darned affordable. The headphone and amp make the most difference by far, after the quality of the recording itself of course. I'd like my next jump to be a new turntable but it will take some real fiscal discipline to get to what I want.
   
  That and a new camera lens for collecting butterflies the way I would want to


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Oh,yes. I wouldn't want to harm any pretty butterflies. Just a nice macro lens will do or even one of those fast 50mm f1.2 lenses for playtime too. I've seen that DAC you mentioned. It is affordable.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Oh,yes. I wouldn't want to harm any pretty butterflies. Just a nice macro lens will do or even one of those fast 50mm f1.2 lenses for playtime too. I've seen that DAC you mentioned. It is affordable.


 

 Digital Butterflies!


----------



## danne

Got my WA22 earlier today and now finally have some time to spend with it, at the first glance I really cant help my self from thinking of how wonderfull it looks compared to the pictures that really doesnt make it any justice.
  Still waiting for my balanced cables for the HD 800 but I do feed it with some balanced wireworld equinox from my lavry da11 and it really does sound very good.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





danne said:


> Got my WA22 earlier today and now finally have some time to spend with it, at the first glance I really cant help my self from thinking of how wonderfull it looks compared to the pictures that really doesnt make it any justice.
> Still waiting for my balanced cables for the HD 800 but I do feed it with some balanced wireworld equinox from my lavry da11 and it really does sound very good.


 

 Danne,
   
  Welcome to the club.  I really like my WA22.  As long as you are feeding it a balanced input, you're good.  What kind of music do you like?  What is downstream of your DAC?


----------



## danne

I tend to listen to a quite wide range of music depending on the mood, but if I where to chose Sinatra and Norah Jones comes very close to my heart.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Danne,
> 
> Welcome to the club.  I really like my WA22.  As long as you are feeding it a balanced input, you're good.  What kind of music do you like?  What is downstream of your DAC?


----------



## Clayton SF

_*All My Tomorrows*_ is my favorite Sinatra Song. A song I have yet to listen to on the WA22. Thanks for the mentioning Sinatra!
  (Now where the heck is that CD?)
   
 Today I may not have a thing at all except for just a dream or two
 But I've got lots of plans for tomorrow and all my tomorrows belong to you
 Right now it may not seem like spring at all, we're drifting and the laughs are few
 But I've got rainbows planned for tomorrow, and all my tomorrows belong to you
 No one knows better than I that luck keeps passing me by ... that's fate
 But with you there at my side, I'll soon be turning the tide ... just wait
 As long as I've got arms that cling at all, it's you that I'll be clinging to
 And all the dreams I dream, beg, or borrow on some bright tomorrow they'll all come true
 And all my bright tomorrows belong to you


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





danne said:


> Got my WA22 earlier today and now finally have some time to spend with it, at the first glance I really cant help my self from thinking of how wonderfull it looks compared to the pictures that really doesnt make it any justice.
> Still waiting for my balanced cables for the HD 800 but I do feed it with some balanced wireworld equinox from my lavry da11 and it really does sound very good.


 


 Welcome Danne. Have you been collecting any tubes for you new toy?


----------



## danne

Just the upgrade options that Jack offers on hes site so far, I do fancy the nice box the Shuguang's came in though, very nice.
  I think there will be alot of money going down the music collection route the near future, before making the move to get more tubes.
   
   
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Welcome Danne. Have you been collecting any tubes for you new toy?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





danne said:


> Just the upgrade options that Jack offers on hes site so far, I do fancy the nice box the Shuguang's came in though, very nice.
> I think there will be alot of money going down the music collection route the near future, before making the move to get more tubes.


 
   
  That's a very nice combo for the LCD-2, I never did try them with the HD800 though.


----------



## Silent One

24 Hours ~
   
  Just ordered a new W4S DAC-1! But it's 1700 hours and I caught Clint & the gang walking out the door for the holiday weekend. So my order will get processed Tuesday. Just 24 hours ago, I ordered the elusive, in high demand Apogee Duet 2 from Guitar Center. My order is scheduled to arrive Wednesday.
   
  Then I was surfing the web after dinner yesterday, and opted to cancel that order and buy the Audiophilleo 2. After staying up all night listening to my incomplete system, I went to bed at 0730 hours, dreaming sweetly about my new Audiophilleo 2.
   
  (Silent One):  "Zzzzzz... and then when I upgrade my DAC... upgrade my DAC... Zzzzzzzz... my DAC..."
   
  I stumbled out of bed a few hours later, scrambling to cancel my Audiophilleo 2 order! I just 'neaked it in before shipping. The reason can be traced back to a phone conversation I had with mikemalter earlier this week.
   
  We had discussed DACS, the company Wyred4Sound and their roots. And MM shared with me their brilliance of designing their DACs for planned upgrades, should a customer desire that path later. While dreaming, my brain connected the dots between - "can't afford their DAC like I'd want to have configured" & "when I upgrade my DAC."
   
  So, moments ago I decided to pull the trigger and put my DAC woes behind. I still have to order another bridge next week. Let's see what the month of June holds as promise.
   
  Silent One
   
  Post Script.: Unofficially yesterday, my wallet was empty. Officially today... _it is empty!   _


----------



## WindyCityCy

Nice choice SilentOne


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Nice choice SilentOne


 

 Thanks. I foresee a restless weekend! By chance, do you have a Mac connected to your rig or nearby? I'm dying to know if the W4S DAC supports Fixed Integer play with Audirvana; Pure Music. If any other Woo mates have a Mac>Audirvana>W4S DAC setup, please go under Preferences in Audirvana and tick "Hog mode" & "Integer play."
   
  Play a track and then select "Debug info" under File options. The display will show:
   
  Supported
  "Currently playing in Integer Mode: Non-Mixable streams ect....
   
  No support:
  "Currently playing in standard 32-bit float mode: Mixable streams ect...
   
  Thanks, everyone.


----------



## Skylab

Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


 


  Congrats! It seems the 'WA22 Express' continues to speed down the tracks!!! Hopefully, I can arrive at the station in time this autumn before it _blows by..._


----------



## Icenine2

How ironic that it was you who first let me listen to your WA6 in August which by the time I did decide turned into a WA22 and now you have one!  I'll be really interested in how you think it stacks up against your Leben.  I should have my Cavalli Liquid Fire in about 3 weeks to compare w/my Woo 22.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


----------



## Wedge

Who knows I may buy another WA-22 someday, but for now, I'll just stay in the Woo family with the WA-5.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


 

 I'll be very interested in your comparison of the WA2 , Mini torii and the WA22 with the LCD's.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to the comparison too.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to the comparison too.


 


  I'm still in amp choice limbo for my LCD's.  It's like one arm is tied to a Solid Sate horse and the other arm is tied to a Tube amp horse and they're both pulling in opposite directions.  I need some relief!


----------



## grokit

Welcome to the club Skylab!
  You are already a member of many amp clubs though


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. I foresee a restless weekend! By chance, do you have a Mac connected to your rig or nearby? I'm dying to know if the W4S DAC supports Fixed Integer play with Audirvana; Pure Music. If any other Woo mates have a Mac>Audirvana>W4S DAC setup, please go under Preferences in Audirvana and tick "Hog mode" & "Integer play."
> 
> Play a track and then select "Debug info" under File options. The display will show:
> 
> ...


 

 I'm using a W4S DAC-2 with a Mac.
  Is this what you're looking for ?
   
   
  Audirvana rev. 0.9.2 debug information:
   
  Currently playing in standard 32bit float mode
  Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32bits little endian  Float, 8 bytes per frame @44.1kHz
   
  Hog Mode is on
  Devices found : 2
   
  List of devices:
  Device #0: ID 0x106 Built-in Output UID:AppleHDAEngineOutput:8,0,1,2:0
  Device #1: ID 0x108 Wyred 4 Sound 24/192 Usb Interface UID:W4SUsbEngine:0
   
  Preferred device: Wyred 4 Sound 24/192 Usb Interface UID:W4SUsbEngine:0
   
  Selected device:
  ID 0x108 Wyred 4 Sound 24/192 Usb Interface UID:W4SUsbEngine:0
  1 available sample rates up to 192000.0Hz
  44100.0 to 192000.0
   
  Audio buffer frame size : 14 to 3072 frames
  Current I/O buffer frame size : 2048
  Physical (analog) volume control: No
  Virtual (digital) volume control: No
  Preferred stereo channels L:1 R:2
  Simple stereo device: yes
  Channel mapping: L:Stream 0 channel 0 R:Stream 0 channel 1
   
  1 output streams:
  Stream ID 0x10a 2 channels starting at 1
  1 virtual formats:
  Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32bits little endian  Float @44.1 to 192.0kHz
   
  1 physical formats
  Mixable linear PCM Interleaved 32bits big endian Signed Integer @44.1 to 192.0kHz


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





danne said:


> I tend to listen to a quite wide range of music depending on the mood, but if I where to chose Sinatra and Norah Jones comes very close to my heart.


 

 I use Sanatra and Jones as audio baseline as well as for pure enjoyment.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Who knows I may buy another WA-22 someday, but for now, I'll just stay in the Woo family with the WA-5.


 


  Dammit Wedge!  You sold the wrong amp!


----------



## grokit

The DAC-2 has a completely different USB interface than the DAC-1.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 24 Hours ~
> 
> Just ordered a new W4S DAC-1! But it's 1700 hours and I caught Clint & the gang walking out the door for the holiday weekend. So my order will get processed Tuesday. Just 24 hours ago, I ordered the elusive, in high demand Apogee Duet 2 from Guitar Center. My order is scheduled to arrive Wednesday.
> 
> ...


 

 Silentone - nice to hear you got a W4S.  And a really neat feature is that they are not they heavy to carry for short trips 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !  Would love to hear your impressions - I'll bet you wind up loving it.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


 

 Skylab, this is my current configuration right now and I am really loving it.  When do you take delivery?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The DAC-2 has a completely different USB interface than the DAC-1.


 

 You're absolutely right! Except the DAC-1 has three things going for it:
   
  1) Affordability (we're currently seeking employment...)
  2) Not using USB interface but coax via bridge @192 kHz
  3) In the future can 'List' and then buy newer unit; have existing unit modified instead
   
  In the words of the immortal Ray Charles... _"I'm going to make it do what it do, baby!"  _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Silentone - nice to hear you got a W4S.  And a really neat feature is that they are not they heavy to carry for short trips
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Always recording, the Brain is an amazing organ, isn't it?! I long held the insight about W4S's modular design internally. But, once I verbalized it during our exchange, it came to the front with meaning. Perhaps, we should meet once a month cafe side. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Because I caught Wyred4Sound @ closing, I forgot to ask if the unit comes with a power cord or will I need to liquidate something else? I have a tote with wheels, so let's see what we could pack. If I come directly to you, I'll pack like holiday - _everything. _
   
  But if I come from seeing Dominique with her Parisian Macarons in tow, a few things might get left at the house.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Who knows I may buy another WA-22 someday, but for now, I'll just stay in the Woo family with the WA-5.


 

 Now all you need is a real nos pair of WE300B's, and I would doubt you will ever want for more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  At least paired with the HE6's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm using a W4S DAC-2 with a Mac.
> Is this what you're looking for ?
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You came through like no other - that's exactly what I'm looking for!!! Sadly, no support for Fixed Integer playback (or at least not yet). But hardly a deal breaker. Just another sign of extracting all we can out of our gear. Thanks, WarriorAnt.
   
  Post Script.: Implementing the still-to-come MHDT USBridge may bring Fixed Integer support. Will know in about ten days...


----------



## Wedge

Sadly, the WA-22 sale doesnt even cover those.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Now all you need is a real nos pair of WE300B's, and I would doubt you will ever want for more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## brasewel

Unfortunately I just missed Wedge's WA22. All psyched up to compare our amps tomorrow.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You came through like no other - that's exactly what I'm looking for!!! Sadly, no support for Fixed Integer playback (or at least not yet). But hardly a deal breaker. Just another sign of extracting all we can out of our gear. Thanks, WarriorAnt.
> 
> Post Script.: Implementing the still-to-come MHDT USBridge may bring Fixed Integer support. Will know in about ten days...


 

 To answer your power cord question it does come with a power cord.  Shame on manufacturers  who can't even toss in some form of power cord to get you at least up and running. DON'T even get me started on that. I don't care how many manufacturers might practice this omission it's just Bull*#*T.  You spend a hard earned grand or two you should at least get a standard Belden cord.
   
  So what is " the still-to-come MHDT USBridge may bring Fixed Integer support."? Is it some future update to the W4S DAC?    My last DAC was a THETA Ds Pre Gen III and I had it for 16 years. I connected the interconnects and turned it on.   Todays DAC's and computer audio has left has left my head spinning.   I'm still trying to get a handle on the settings for my players Audirvana, Fidelia, and Amara.   I don't really know as much about my DAC-2 as I should other than it needed a very long burn in time.  It sounded great right out of the box but it really came alive after the 100-150 hour mark. Even at 200 it was still improving.  Never heard any component change so much with burn in.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> To answer your power cord question it does come with a power cord.  Shame on manufacturers  who can't even toss in some form of power cord to get you at least up and running. DON'T even get me started on that. I don't care how many manufacturers might practice this omission it's just Bull*#*T.  You spend a hard earned grand or two you should at least get a standard Belden cord.
> 
> So what is " the still-to-come MHDT USBridge may bring Fixed Integer support."? Is it some future update to the W4S DAC?    My last DAC was a THETA Ds Pre Gen III and I had it for 16 years. I connected the interconnects and turned it on.   Todays DAC's and computer audio has left has left my head spinning.   I'm still trying to get a handle on the settings for my players Audirvana, Fidelia, and Amara.   I don't really know as much about my DAC-2 as I should other than it needed a very long burn in time.  It sounded great right out of the box but it really came alive after the 100-150 hour mark. Even at 200 it was still improving.  Never heard any component change so much with burn in.


 


  That's the difference between the two W4S DACs as I understand it. The DAC-1 only has adaptive 16/48 USB capability, while the DAC-2 has a 24/192 asynchronous USB receiver in it. But as the coax/spdif inputs are identical on the two DACs, the difference can be bridged with a 24/192 USB to coax adapter unit like the MHDT Bridge.


----------



## Wedge

Sorry.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Dammit Wedge!  You sold the wrong amp!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's the difference between the two W4S DACs as I understand it. The DAC-1 only has adaptive 16/48 USB capability, while the DAC-2 has a 24/192 asynchronous USB receiver in it. But as the coax/spdif inputs are identical on the two DACs, the difference can be bridged with a 24/192 USB to coax adapter unit like the MHDT Bridge.


 

 Now I see what your saying, I've been dense all day trying to decide on an amp.   The MHDT Labs USBridge USB to SPDIF converter, the one they sell over at ALO Audio.  That looks like a good option to take for sure to save all the extra money between the 2 DAC's.  There's more of a difference between the two DACs though than the USB capability.  I'm also using the DAC-2 in my home theater set up at night connecting it to my WD HD Player and then listening to high def video files via headphones using the RCA outs on the DAC and the remote volume control. I also use the preamp section into an amp for composing on my iMac with Mirage speakers.   I'm also using the RCA outs on the DAC-2 with my LCD's until I settle on an amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's the difference between the two W4S DACs as I understand it. The DAC-1 only has adaptive 16/48 USB capability, while the DAC-2 has a 24/192 asynchronous USB receiver in it. But as the coax/spdif inputs are identical on the two DACs, the difference can be bridged with a 24/192 USB to coax adapter unit like the MHDT Bridge.


 


  Just to reiterate (in a friendly manner, mind you)... regarding USB capability, I understand the difference perfectly. However, it's moot in my case since I'll be utilizing coax - s/pdif @192 kHz. Earlier this week, I returned my MHDT USBridge to ALO Audio because coax failed to sync with my EMU-0404 DAC. Now that I'm buying a new DAC, I need another bridge. 
  ______________________________


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> To answer your power cord question it does come with a power cord.  Shame on manufacturers  who can't even toss in some form of power cord to get you at least up and running. DON'T even get me started on that. I don't care how many manufacturers might practice this omission it's just Bull*#*T.  You spend a hard earned grand or two you should at least get a standard Belden cord.
> 
> So what is " the still-to-come MHDT USBridge may bring Fixed Integer support."? Is it some future update to the W4S DAC?    My last DAC was a THETA Ds Pre Gen III and I had it for 16 years. I connected the interconnects and turned it on.   Todays DAC's and computer audio has left has left my head spinning.   I'm still trying to get a handle on the settings for my players Audirvana, Fidelia, and Amara.   I don't really know as much about my DAC-2 as I should other than it needed a very long burn in time.  It sounded great right out of the box but it really came alive after the 100-150 hour mark. Even at 200 it was still improving.  Never heard any component change so much with burn in.


 


  To explain my remark "The still-to-come MHDT USBridge may bring Fixed Integer support." At this writing, many DACs do not support Fixed Integer playback, W4S DACs among them apparently.There are a couple of bridges that do, currently the Halide Bridge comes to mind.
   
  The MHDT may or may not. If my unit had worked properly before I returned it to ALO Audio this past Monday, I could have confirmed it for myself. Hence, the _"may bring Fixed Integer support" _comment.
   
  So, why is Fixed Integer playback such a concern? It's about mixable & non-mixable streams. On your Mac during playback, the audio system is designed to make room for other streams. So your Mac will convert 24-bit streams to 32-bit float and back.
   
  However, when using a software player such as Pure Music & Audirvana, and Hog mode with Integer mode is selected, the player takes sole possession of the audio drivers. And the streams remain 'Fixed' @ 24-bits with the extra computational steps bypassed.
   
  Ideally, the less audio overhead your Mac has to deal with, the cleaner the output. I'm quite sure I could have said this a bit more eloquently. _But not after midnight. _Hope this helps!
   
  On power cords, I had to ask because I'm ordering accessories tonight (morning?). I want to hit the ground running Friday. Besides, my Woo arrived naked (_not true_). But I knew in advance I'd have to get one. I'm looking forward to burning appx 250 hrs in 21 days, as rest intervals is as important to amps, tubes and cables as actual burn-in.


----------



## danne

Now time for some pictures!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danne said:


> Now time for some pictures!


 

  
  Well executed, danne...


----------



## Clayton SF

Gorgeous. Mooi. Beautiful. Has made me reconsider the _Princess_!


----------



## jerico

I just hooked up my turntable to my 22 - its usually connected to my speaker system, but recently upgrded interconnects and the new ones are just long enough to reach the Woo. I'm spinning Kind of Blue. Vinyl + tubes + a giant cup of Saturday morning coffee = one happy guy!

Happy Memorial Day w/e to all (stateside)!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I just hooked up my turntable to my 22 - its usually connected to my speaker system, but recently upgrded interconnects and the new ones are just long enough to reach the Woo. I'm spinning Kind of Blue. Vinyl + tubes + a giant cup of Saturday morning coffee = one happy guy!
> 
> Happy Memorial Day w/e to all (stateside)!


 


  You certainly know how a Saturday morning should begin. "Happy Memorial Day" to our East Coast Woo brothers & sisters as well!


----------



## Skylab

@ Danne - great pics! Looking forward all the more to my WA22 arriving!

@ MikeMalter - I'm guessing it should be here by midweek, but with Monday's holiday it's hard to say.


----------



## jc9394

Congrats, Rob. You finally got the WA22, you have all the right tubes for it already. Waiting for your impression...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Always recording, the Brain is an amazing organ, isn't it?! I long held the insight about W4S's modular design internally. But, once I verbalized it during our exchange, it came to the front with meaning. Perhaps, we should meet once a month cafe side.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Don't worry about power cords or interconnects either unless you want to test them (however if you want to bring everything - no problem either).  It's just plug and play over here.  I would really like to hear your DAC and Mac.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





danne said:


> Now time for some pictures!


 

 Danne,
   
  Really nice looking photos and a really nice setup.  I like your HD800 pillow.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I just hooked up my turntable to my 22 - its usually connected to my speaker system, but recently upgrded interconnects and the new ones are just long enough to reach the Woo. I'm spinning Kind of Blue. Vinyl + tubes + a giant cup of Saturday morning coffee = one happy guy!
> 
> Happy Memorial Day w/e to all (stateside)!


 

 Jerico, what phono stage are you using?   Does it have balanced outputs?  I'm thinking of getting a PS Audio phono stage because it has balanced outputs.


----------



## tupac0306

Do anybody know how long do we have to wait for the woo audio amp arriving oversea? after the order placed?..Is woo audio same as LCD 2? They dun stock any amp? So hv to wait for a long time? any experience?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


 

 Congratulations. Can't wait for a review from a Pro!


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> Jerico, what phono stage are you using?   Does it have balanced outputs?  I'm thinking of getting a PS Audio phono stage because it has balanced outputs.




Hi Mike - phono stage is a battery-powered Zyx Artisan, but single-ended only. I had a PS Audio GCPH before the Zyx - it was a very nice unit for the price (and I got it new for $599 during a PS Audio promotion) - but found it a little too bright for my tastes/my setup.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I really appreciate that you told me it was too bright.  I'll keep looking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Don't worry about power cords or interconnects either unless you want to test them (however if you want to bring everything - no problem either).  It's just plug and play over here.  I would really like to hear your DAC and Mac.


 

  
_Gettin' squeaky _~
   
  June is upon us, that time of year again for me to see the audiologist and get squeaky clean! I'm always excited about these visits. Except this year, she may have to wait for the restoration of my frail wallet - perhaps, July. I like to travel lean anyway... _plug & play it is._
   
  Last night, I decided not to replace my bridge and conserve cash for now. Since the new DAC has a better handle on jitter, I'll just come into the DAC (s/pdif) with my WireWorld Supernova 6 glass toslink @ 96 kHz.
   
  On the other hand, if i can save up enough for the Audiphilleo2...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





danne said:


> Now time for some pictures!


 

 Nice photos!  I did not realize you could go single ended with the W22.  What is the "Stereo" plug all about? Are there 3 ways to come out of the W22?    when you ordered it did you do the "black or Silver, black or silver, black or silver dance in your head?   I always do that with gear.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





			
				SilentOne said:
			
		

> _Gettin' squeaky _~
> 
> June is upon us, that time of year again for me to see the audiologist and get squeaky clean! I'm always excited about these visits. Except this year, she may have to wait for the restoration of my frail wallet - perhaps, July. I like to travel lean anyway... _plug & play it is._
> 
> ...


 

 I really like the Supernova 5 and feel it is the equivalent of coax (at least of the coax cables I have been able to afford).  I imagine the 6 is that much better. 
   
  Sometimes I think that it is hard to really tell what is influencing audio, is it jitter, is it the interconnect; there are so many factors.  What I am trying to say is that having heard so many good things about the chip the W4S is using, and knowing the quality factor of the team making the DAC itself, the way the DAC is voiced might lead one to think they have a handle on jitter or some such, but the DAC just sounds good.
   
  Here is to hoping you have a DAC that just sounds good!
   
  Wanted to edit this post.  Just read the review in Absolute Sound by Steven Stone, and wanted to make sure I did not seem like I was brushing off your comment that the DAC has a better handle on jitter.  Steve wrote this:
   
  Quote: 





> Because jitter is inevitable in a S/PDIF digital stream, the DAC- 2’s Sabre ESS 9018 deals with jitter in a clever way—by disregarding the clock signals coming from the source. Instead the Sabre re-clocks by instituting a discrete digital delay that can affect either the positive or negative edge of each duty cycle by up to 50%. The processor accesses the width of each digital pulse, compares it to past pulses, and assigns the pulse a particular quantified width. Then the device processes each pulse in turn with no attempt to re-time the clock, it merely time-stamps the information and passes it downstream. According to Wyred 4 Sound, this methodology makes it possible for the DAC-2 to accept up to 50ns of random and 200ns of sinusoidal jitter with no audible affects. Technically, this is an asynchronous system, since the data flow is controlled by the DAC, not the computer. But this is not the same asynchronous methodology used by Wavelength, which focuses on the interface between the computer and the DAC.


 
   
  Sometimes it not as simple and folksy as I said.  You are right, they really worked on reducing jitter.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice photos!  I did not realize you could go single ended with the W22.  What is the "Stereo" plug all about? Are there 3 ways to come out of the W22?    when you ordered it did you do the "black or Silver, black or silver, black or silver dance in your head?   I always do that with gear.


 

 PM sent.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice photos!  I did not realize you could go single ended with the W22.  What is the "Stereo" plug all about? Are there 3 ways to come out of the W22?    when you ordered it did you do the "black or Silver, black or silver, black or silver dance in your head?   I always do that with gear.


 

 Here is the thing about the WA22.  Others please jump in here if I get this wrong, the WA22 has a true balanced option on input, but single ended on output. 
   
  Some say that the extra quality in sound that you hear using balanced connectors is due to the connector.  I have both balanced and single ended cables and I like the balanced better but they are for the most part equivalent.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


 


 How awesome is that!  I'm really hoping you get a chance to connect the BDP-95 to the WA22 via XLR. I'd really like to hear your impressions how they sound together.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I really like the Supernova 5 and feel it is the equivalent of coax (at least of the coax cables I have been able to afford).  I imagine the 6 is that much better.
> 
> Sometimes I think that it is hard to really tell what is influencing audio, is it jitter, is it the interconnect; there are so many factors.  What I am trying to say is that having heard so many good things about the chip the W4S is using, and knowing the quality factor of the team making the DAC itself, the way the DAC is voiced might lead one to think they have a handle on jitter or some such, but the DAC just sounds good.
> 
> Here is to hoping you have a DAC that just sounds good!


 


  Thanks. The Supernova 6 is a quality 280 fiber glass cable. The challenge though is the Digital Output on the Mac itself isn't very clean. It's decent, but high-end computer audio is still young yet. Designers and users alike are still learning and figuring things out. They (Macs) do make fantastic transports. 
   
  Unix/Linux at their hearts are fundamentally designed to _walk & chew gum_. Where Mr.Softie (MSFT) keeps stuttering and tripping on the high-end configurations. PC's can make very good DAWS and become good transports as well. But because of its architecture, you've got to jump through 19 hoops... and still trip! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I do computer audio on both PC/MAC to DAC then Woo - the Mac is more eloquent expressing itself.


----------



## grokit

From the WA22 manual:
   
  "Balanced (XLR) inputs work best for this model. If you use RCA input, the amp will not work in fully balanced mode."
   
  It's been explained that when using a balanced source that the WA22 will output a fully balanced signal, and that the signal will be just as good out of the TRS socket as the balanced ones.
   
  I like to use my whole amp, not just half of it so I got rid of the RCA inputs. The GCPH sounds best with a lush MC cartridge.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Here is the thing about the WA22.  Others please jump in here if I get this wrong, the WA22 has a true balanced option on input, but single ended on output.
> 
> Some say that the extra quality in sound that you hear using balanced connectors is due to the connector.  I have both balanced and single ended cables and I like the balanced better but they are for the most part equivalent.


 

 I think you're right Mike. That's how I understood it as well. However, the xlr signal on the input is better then rca provided the source is truly balanced as well. Also, I think most would agree the after market HP cables are better then stock on most HP, so it's a matter of choice which connection to use for those after market cables.


----------



## grokit

Also this gem from Shaub's WA22 review:

 "A "normal" or single-ended signal uses two wires; one normally called "hot" which carries the musical information as an analog waveform and one called "ground" or sometimes "return" which allows for a complete connection in the circuit which is essentially one large circle of power. As the voltage in the signal goes up, the headphone diaphragm moves more and vice versa, thus creating pressure waves in the air that corresponds to the analog waveform carried in the wire, which corresponds in turn to the original pressure waves in the air we call music. In a balanced system the same thing happens except that there are three wires: two hot which are perfectly out of phase with each other combined with one ground. When the signal arrives at the headphones, one half of the hot "pushes" and the other half "pulls" as in the diagram that follows:

 ½ signal → <diaphragm> → ½ signal

 Because the signal halves are perfectly out of phase, they provide more support to the diaphragm and cancel out any noise picked up along the way from some point in the headphone amp, or earlier if you have a completely balanced system, to the headphones. In short, all the signals get perfectly added up in kind of "push me pull me" configuration that has less noise and (I think) better bass and treble. This last point is of course implementation-dependent and doesn't apply to every stereo system just, in this case, to the Woo 22 headphones amp."


----------



## Silent One

Additionally, and though I lack a balanced amp at this writing, my DAC has a higher output in balanced mode vs unbalanced.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I really like the Supernova 5 and feel it is the equivalent of coax (at least of the coax cables I have been able to afford).  I imagine the 6 is that much better.
> 
> Sometimes I think that it is hard to really tell what is influencing audio, is it jitter, is it the interconnect; there are so many factors.  What I am trying to say is that having heard so many good things about the chip the W4S is using, and knowing the quality factor of the team making the DAC itself, the way the DAC is voiced might lead one to think they have a handle on jitter or some such, but the DAC just sounds good.
> 
> ...


 

 W4S approached to jitter with the DAC-2 is one of the reasons I went for it.  I like the stand alone pre-amp function. And I figured the upgraded caps couldn't hurt.  W4S is very responsive when emailed.  Here is a link that describes briefly the differences between the DAC-1 and the DAC-2.   http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/i/74030/212814/333112


----------



## Icenine2

Anyone seen the Woo ad in the new Tone Magazine?  It's a black WA22.  Really nice.  It will make you want one for sure............if you don't already!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I had a PS Audio GCPH before the Zyx - it was a very nice unit for the price (and I got it new for $599 during a PS Audio promotion) - but found it a little too bright for my tastes/my setup.


 
   
  Did you try this tip from the PSA website? One of the things that I like about the GCPH is its versatility.
   
  "Many vinyl lovers use a moving coil cartridge at the standard moving magnet impedance setting of 47K and adjust the turntable's VTA such that the increase in _overall system brightness is reduced_. The combination of proper turntable setup and higher impedance for Moving Coil cartridges can result in some incredibly dynamic and open music on your system."


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Did you try this tip from the PSA website? One of the things that I like about the GCPH is its versatility.
> 
> "Many vinyl lovers use a moving coil cartridge at the standard moving magnet impedance setting of 47K and adjust the turntable's VTA such that the increase in _overall system brightness is reduced_. The combination of proper turntable setup and higher impedance for Moving Coil cartridges can result in some incredibly dynamic and open music on your system."


 

 Grokit, looks like you're keeping my thoughts of the GCPH alive.  Do you have one perhaps?


----------



## jerico

grokit said:


> Did you try this tip from the PSA website? One of the things that I like about the GCPH is its versatility.
> 
> "Many vinyl lovers use a moving coil cartridge at the standard moving magnet impedance setting of 47K and adjust the turntable's VTA such that the increase in _overall system brightness is reduced_. The combination of proper turntable setup and higher impedance for Moving Coil cartridges can result in some incredibly dynamic and open music on your system."




Hi Grokit - I did play with loading pretty extensively, along with table setup. I used 2 very different carts too - Sumiko Blackbird and Shelter 501mkII - it just didn't do it for me. Don't get me wrong though - it's s very nice unit, it just wasn't the right match for my system (which can be rather bright otherwise).


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit, looks like you're keeping my thoughts of the GCPH alive.  Do you have one perhaps?





   
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hi Grokit - I did play with loading pretty extensively, along with table setup. I used 2 very different carts too - Sumiko Blackbird and Shelter 501mkII - it just didn't do it for me. Don't get me wrong though - it's s very nice unit, it just wasn't the right match for my system (which can be rather bright otherwise).






   
   
  Hey guys, yes I do own a GCPH. But I must confess that I have not heard it with a good MC cartridge in my system yet. I have read user impressions and professional reviews of it, and the consensus seems to be that it is nothing compares to it for anywhere near $1k, that it is extremely versatile with the combination of dip switch settings for everything but the lowest of the low output cartridges, and that it offers exceptional detail and even "killer bass". I chose it to pair with my WA22 because it was all SS to balance out the euphonics in the amp, and because it features the balanced outputs. It does pretty well with my lowly Luxman/OM40 MM setup but I am looking forward to upgrading to a better deck and MC cart, hopefully by summer's end.
   
  With my setup if the bass is on the record it is reproduced pretty faithfully but the overall presentation could be more musical and textured, which I have been blaming on the tt/cart.
   
  I am surprised that the Blackbird and 501mkII didn't fare well with it. From what I have read they are very capable and even on the warm side of neutral but highly detailed, maybe that was the problem? I was thinking of pairing the GCPH with a slightly more pedestrian but perhaps more musical offering, like a Denon DL-A100 or Dynavector 10X5. These are very personal decisions to be sure; in my quest to keep things balanced and somewhat affordable I have decided to build around the GCPH but I'm not there yet. I hope I have better luck with the GCPH than you did Jerico, it sounds like I may need to seek out the right coloration to offset what could be an overly clinical sound signature. I think I am on the right track but won't know until I get everything together and see how it sounds.
   
  If anything it seems like a clinical sounding phono stage should pair well with the euphonic WA22, like say a Sabre 9018 DAC over a Wolfson 8741 based unit.  But as we all know, things are not always what they seem


----------



## jerico

Grokit - sounds to me like you're on the right track. The GCPH is definitely an excellent unit for the price - you can certainly do worse. I should point out that I use my table primarily in my speaker setup, rather than with my Woo. The GCPH certainly didn't sound bad - quite the opposite - it just wasn't what I was looking for. I was actually looking for a tube phono pre to replace the GCPH, before I came across the Zyx. Id still love to hear an Eddie Current Transcription, or even an EAR 834 (a little esker to find) but I have been very pleased with the Zyx.

Of course, table and cart ( and cables ) all play a part, as well as amplification (Woo or otherwise) so you just have to do some tryouts to find what really clicks!

All that said, my analog setup really sounds awesome with the Woo (based on my session this morning) - very organic, and with good balance of detail and warmth. I get a similar sound through my speaker setup too.


----------



## mikemalter

I'm now back thinking about the GCPH and am looking at modified units.  I have had really great luck with the Cullen mods on my DLIII.  I've sent them an email to see if they are still doing them.
   
  There is also the Underwood modification and I am wondering if anyone has any insight into it. 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## grokit

Glad it all worked out for you in the end Jerico. Which cartridge did you ultimately decide to go with?
   
  I'm glad you brought up the mods Mike, I forgot to mention that. I wasn't aware of the Underwood mods, I'll have to look into that also. It looks like it incorporates at least some of the Cullen mods.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Glad it all worked out for you in the end Jerico. Which cartridge did you ultimately decide to go with?
> 
> I'm glad you brought up the mods Mike, I forgot to mention that. I wasn't aware of the Underwood mods, I'll have to look into that also. It looks like it incorporates at least some of the Cullen mods.


 

 When you do look into it, please let me know what you think.


----------



## mikemalter

*ARGH!!!!*
  My EML just blew; again.  I was changing out a pair of ECC32's for my TungSol TSRP's.  I waited for the amp to cool down and when I turned it back on, the fireworks show happened.  I have a PS Audio P5 and my voltage is set to 120 and it never goes above so I know it's not an over voltage problem.
   
  The last time this happened it was the same thing.  Changed a pair of driver tubes and boom.  I also bought a spare EML at that time, so it's not stopping me from listening to anything.  I'm pretty sure I'm still under warranty since this was purchased within the past year.  Those rectifiers with the thin filaments sure do like to go up in smoke.  I hope Jack does not think I'm a problem customer.


----------



## grokit

Bummer, was that the 5U4G? I got my replacement in a month or so ago after a premature blow, but just tested it for a listening session and removed it again.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm now back thinking about the GCPH and am looking at modified units.  I have had really great luck with the Cullen mods on my DLIII.  I've sent them an email to see if they are still doing them.
> 
> There is also the Underwood modification and I am wondering if anyone has any insight into it.
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
  I just sold an Underwood/PartsConnexion modded GCPH last week. I've never had a non-modded unit, so I couldn't compare the two, but I was very happy with the sound of the modded unit. It's sound was quite neutral with perhaps a nod toward warm and not the least bit "clinical" as I use the term. Ultimately, I sold the GCPH and kept a Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk because the RSA unit worked much better with LOMCs than the GCPH.\
   
  Unless you plan to use very low output cartridges, I'd have no problem recommending the PartsConnexion modded GCPH. If you can wait for a used one, they often appear for $700-800.


----------



## Wedge

So I shipped the WA-22 out today, I can't wait to hear what Skylab thinks about the amp.  I liked it very much, but I decided I didn't have the room for it, at this time.  I am still a card carrying Woo Audio Owner with the WA-5 though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> *ARGH!!!!*
> My EML just blew; again.  I was changing out a pair of ECC32's for my TungSol TSRP's.  I waited for the amp to cool down and when I turned it back on, the fireworks show happened.  I have a PS Audio P5 and my voltage is set to 120 and it never goes above so I know it's not an over voltage problem.
> 
> The last time this happened it was the same thing.  Changed a pair of driver tubes and boom.  I also bought a spare EML at that time, so it's not stopping me from listening to anything.  I'm pretty sure I'm still under warranty since this was purchased within the past year.  Those rectifiers with the thin filaments sure do like to go up in smoke.  I hope Jack does not think I'm a problem customer.


 


  (_Silent One quietly rolls in his stock tubes/rectifier for the next 350 hours of burn-in_)
   
  Your experience tonight has left me feeling reserved (more than usual). Spare and warranty aside, sorry you had to deal with it..._ at all._


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wedge said:


> So I shipped the WA-22 out today, I can't wait to hear what Skylab thinks about the amp.  I liked it very much, but I decided I didn't have the room for it, at this time.  I am still a card carrying Woo Audio Owner with the WA-5 though.


 


 That's at least a card and a half!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> *ARGH!!!!*
> My EML just blew; again.  I was changing out a pair of ECC32's for my TungSol TSRP's.  I waited for the amp to cool down and when I turned it back on, the fireworks show happened.  I have a PS Audio P5 and my voltage is set to 120 and it never goes above so I know it's not an over voltage problem.
> 
> The last time this happened it was the same thing.  Changed a pair of driver tubes and boom.  I also bought a spare EML at that time, so it's not stopping me from listening to anything.  I'm pretty sure I'm still under warranty since this was purchased within the past year.  Those rectifiers with the thin filaments sure do like to go up in smoke.  I hope Jack does not think I'm a problem customer.


 
  What is the first cap uf after the rectifier? Something is off as too much current draw at start up will blow these tubes with too large a cap.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I bought Wedge's WA22, and have sold my WA2. Very psyched to check out the WA22... and how cool will it be with the GEC 6AS7Gs, Mullard ECC32's, and a Mullard 5U4G...


 

 Good job!  When I compared a loaner WA22 to my WA6 I felt they both had very similar timbre, tone and detail - but the balanced WA22 had a noticeably wider and deeper soundstage with significantly more power.  At the time I already had the ZDT and felt it was slightly better with my low impedance phones and very similar with high impedance phones.  I've been meaning to upgrade the WA6 to a WA22 someday, but haven't been in a position to do it yet.


----------



## jerico

grokit said:


> Glad it all worked out for you in the end Jerico. Which cartridge did you ultimately decide to go with?
> 
> I'm glad you brought up the mods Mike, I forgot to mention that. I wasn't aware of the Underwood mods, I'll have to look into that also. It looks like it incorporates at least some of the Cullen mods.




I still have both carts. I managed to damage the stylus on the Blackbird at one point, and picked up the Shelter as a replacement while the Blackbird was sent off to Soundsmith for a retip. When the Blackbird came back, it sounded much better than it did in stock form - and I'm still using it now, very happily. I liked the improvement so much that I sent the Shelter in for the same retip even though it was in perfect condition, though I've not tried it since it was completed - it's my backup cart now. I definitely preferred the stock Blackbird to the stock Shelter though (I've since learned that many feel Shelters aren't great matches for VPI tables).

Mike - Bummer on the EML! I found a NOS TungSol 5U4G somewhere for a very good price (around $40) - it's almost as good as the EML. EML has fuller bass, but TS has a nice "tubey" presentation - great for the $! I bet the TS 5UGGB - easier to find - is also a nice tube.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> What is the first cap uf after the rectifier? Something is off as too much current draw at start up will blow these tubes with too large a cap.


 
  First, mike I am very sorry to read you are having more problems.
   
  Yes I agree with what you are saying jam, but if that's the case Jack really screwed the pouch on mikes amp. His amp should have a 30 second delay to protect against this happening and from what he is saying his EML blew right when he turned on his amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> *ARGH!!!!*
> My EML just blew; again.  I was changing out a pair of ECC32's for my TungSol TSRP's.  I waited for the amp to cool down and when I turned it back on, the fireworks show happened.  I have a PS Audio P5 and my voltage is set to 120 and it never goes above so I know it's not an over voltage problem.
> 
> The last time this happened it was the same thing.  Changed a pair of driver tubes and boom.  I also bought a spare EML at that time, so it's not stopping me from listening to anything.  I'm pretty sure I'm still under warranty since this was purchased within the past year.  Those rectifiers with the thin filaments sure do like to go up in smoke.  I hope Jack does not think I'm a problem customer.


 


  There is a school of though, guys, that says if you mix cold tubes with warm ones, that you risk arcing the tubes.  Pete Millet is the one who has said this, and he knows a good bit about tubes.  Here is his exact quite, from the HA-2 manual:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Ø Don't power up the amp with one cold tube
> This is important, and not obvious: You can cause a temporary overload condition if you put in one cold
> tube along with others that are still warm, and turn the power back on. In particular, with the HA-2, if you
> power up with a cold 6080 with the other tubes warm, you will get arcing between the grid and cathode of
> ...


 
   
  Something to consider.  I admit that I don't always heed this warning as well as I should, but if the EML is a bit fragile to begin with...well...just a thought.


  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Good job!  When I compared a loaner WA22 to my WA6 I felt they both had very similar timbre, tone and detail - but the balanced WA22 had a noticeably wider and deeper soundstage with significantly more power.  At the time I already had the ZDT and felt it was slightly better with my low impedance phones and very similar with high impedance phones.  I've been meaning to upgrade the WA6 to a WA22 someday, but haven't been in a position to do it yet.


 

 Thanks Larry.  Really looking forward to it.  Already got my tubes all picked out and ready


----------



## dminches

My practice has been to only change tubes after the equipment has been off over night.  I know this may be overly conservative but blowing tubes is such a bummer.  This prevents me from rolling tubes while the sound is fresh in my mind, but that's that price I pay.
   
  Mike, sorry about your EML.]


----------



## Icenine2

I had my EML blow end of April that I had bought in December.  George from TubesUSA.com replaced it no problem.  A great guy to deal with.  He did tell me this has been an issue with these WA22 amps and was concerned about the voltage.  He was concerned about my voltage out of the wall and I was going to buy a voltmeter (too expensive) but who knows when I'm going to get a spike.  Volts might show good and then bam.  You have a PS so that should never happen.  I did ask Jackie Wu this question.  He dismissed it as being the amp.  HOT POTATO!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Leon83

Posting some pictures of my WA6 + DAC and headphones (Cambridge DacMagic and Denon D5000).
  Wish I had a Sophia Princess 274B, because of the nice glow it has.


----------



## Wedge

You know you can get a real cheap multimeter that would work nearly as good as say an expensive Fluke.  It really is another important tool to have if your an audio guy, realistically if you learn your way around with a decent multimeter, you can really trouble shoot a lot of things, even with out an oscilloscope.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I had my EML blow end of April that I had bought in December.  George from TubesUSA.com replaced it no problem.  A great guy to deal with.  He did tell me this has been an issue with these WA22 amps and was concerned about the voltage.  He was concerned about my voltage out of the wall and I was going to buy a voltmeter (too expensive) but who knows when I'm going to get a spike.  Volts might show good and then bam.  You have a PS so that should never happen.  I did ask Jackie Wu this question.  He dismissed it as being the amp.  HOT POTATO!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful Pics, Leon!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





leon83 said:


> Posting some pictures of my WA6 + DAC and headphones (Cambridge DacMagic and Denon D5000).
> Wish I had a Sophia Princess 274B, because of the nice glow it has.


 


_"Wish I had a Sophia Princess 274B, because of the nice glow it has." - Leon83_
   
   
   
  Silent One's Sophia Princess 274B glowing at night, Autumn 2010... nice photographs by the way!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My practice has been to only change tubes after the equipment has been off over night.  I know this may be overly conservative but blowing tubes is such a bummer.  This prevents me from rolling tubes while the sound is fresh in my mind, but that's that price I pay.
> 
> Mike, sorry about your EML.]


 

 +2
   
  I'm in this camp most of the time. And there are long intervals (few hours minimum) in between same day swaps. My lack of tube knowledge is what guides me with caution. _But someday... __we'll know more... and knowingly cut corners (skillfully, mind you)._


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> You know you can get a real cheap multimeter that would work nearly as good as say an expensive Fluke.  It really is another important tool to have if your an audio guy, realistically if you learn your way around with a decent multimeter, you can really trouble shoot a lot of things, even with out an oscilloscope.


 
  It is too bad that one can't just sit back and enjoy the amp for what it's for--music. I'd hate for the day to come when I'd have to use a multimeter, oscilloscope, etc. just to make sure I can turn on my tube amp without blowing up something. You'd think the designers would have done _their_ due diligence to trouble-shoot their product before releasing it to the general public with their ready-to-spend, hard-earned cash.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I had my EML blow end of April that I had bought in December.  George from TubesUSA.com replaced it no problem.  A great guy to deal with.  He did tell me this has been an issue with these WA22 amps and was concerned about the voltage.  He was concerned about my voltage out of the wall and I was going to buy a voltmeter (too expensive) but who knows when I'm going to get a spike.  Volts might show good and then bam.  You have a PS so that should never happen.  I did ask Jackie Wu this question.  *He dismissed it as being the amp.*  HOT POTATO!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 Interesting...


----------



## Wedge

I was just saying to Icenine if he wanted a multimeter they can be had for like $20 to $40 really not all that expensive and not a bad idea to have for all the people here.  I'm not suggesting in anyway that it is required, but if we are all going to own tube amps and tube testers, etc, a multimeter isn't a bad tool to have as well, just IMO.  If for nothing else even just to check the wall socket voltage.  Realistically I think if you have a decent surge protector, your tube equipment is in general safe, although the power grid can be a nightmare especially in older areas that are more heavily populated.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I was just saying to Icenine if he wanted a multimeter they can be had for like $20 to $40 really not all that expensive and not a bad idea to have for all the people here.  I'm not suggesting in anyway that it is required, but if we are all going to own tube amps and tube testers, etc, a multimeter isn't a bad tool to have as well, just IMO.  If for nothing else even just to check the wall socket voltage.  Realistically I think if you have a decent surge protector, your tube equipment is in general safe, although the power grid can be a nightmare especially in older areas that are more heavily populated.


 

 You're got a point there. Thanks for clarifying it. It is always good to have the right tools on hand to narrow down the culprit (even more).


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike-
   
  Sorry to hear about your EML.  I had 2 of them blow in the same fashion (they were the older version).  I've had the 3rd (newer version) for about 5-6 months but haven't changed any tubes as the first 2 EML's blew after doing a tube change.  It could just be coincidence but I love the sound of the EML and don't want to be without it for another 1-2 months.


----------



## Icenine2

I'm selling my Tesla T-1's should anyone be interested.  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/555999/beyerdynamic-tesla-t-1-w-4-pin-balanced-plug#


----------



## Icenine2

I re-read my post and the last sentence seems muddy.  Jack said it is not an amp problem.  George did infer that maybe the cap selection was wrong?  At least that's how I remember it.  I don't know but it does seem a number of us have had EML's go before their time.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Interesting...


 


   


  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I had my EML blow end of April that I had bought in December.  George from TubesUSA.com replaced it no problem.  A great guy to deal with.  He did tell me this has been an issue with these WA22 amps and was concerned about the voltage.  He was concerned about my voltage out of the wall and I was going to buy a voltmeter (too expensive) but who knows when I'm going to get a spike.  Volts might show good and then bam.  You have a PS so that should never happen.  I did ask Jackie Wu this question.  He dismissed it as being the amp.  HOT POTATO!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## danne

I still think this thread needs more pictures!
  Woo is glowing, scotch in the glas and the music is flowing.


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful pics, Danne. Makes me even more excited to get my WA22!


----------



## danne

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Beautiful pics, Danne. Makes me even more excited to get my WA22!


 


  Thanks! It is truely stunning to look at and listen to, you will be very pleased with it Im sure.


----------



## Silent One

Buyer/Seller feedback ~
   
  I've a question for my Woo mates: How can I leave feedback for a buyer at head-fi, who bought from me before I could list? When items are listed there's a built-in functionality for leaving feedback.
   
  In my case, I decided I would list my Denon AH-D5000's for sale on a Monday morning. Sunday evening prior, I began to compose three private messages to head-fiers I knew would be interested. My headphones sold before I could finish sending out the PM's... _talk about hot!_


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately, I don't think you can without making an listing.


----------



## grokit

Just make a quick listing and close it out, all you need is a URL to leave feedback for each other.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Just make a quick listing and close it out, all you need is a URL to leave feedback for each other.


 

 Clever! A huge thanks out to grokit...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





danne said:


> I still think this thread needs more pictures!
> Woo is glowing, scotch in the glass and the music is flowing.
> <<snipped pix>>


 

 It's good to see the Sophia Princess back on stage an in the limelight. For a while she was getting bad press, but now it seems it's the EML's turn.
   
  Those are great photos of your tubes on the WA22. I can never seem to capture my tubes in the glow it deserves; I have a cheap camera. I'm getting ready to pour some Brut sparkling wine and toast the WA22. Cheers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It's good to see the Sophia Princess back on stage an in the limelight. For a while she was getting bad press, but now it seems it's the EML's turn.
> 
> Those are great photos of your tubes on the WA22. I can never seem to capture my tubes in the glow it deserves; I have a cheap camera. I'm getting ready to pour some Brut sparkling wine and toast the WA22. Cheers!


 


  Bad Press.:
   
  Fashion is always fickle and finds way to simply make room for the next change at other's expense. I enjoyed my time with Miss Sophia. She wore her $150 evening dress well. Many a night, I set out to relax with some jazz emanating from my Woo, only to hear a growing chorus of whispers behind our backs from "Look! She's getting fat!" to "The Fat Lady sings!" I found these cheap shots uncalled for and unwarranted.
   
  Just before signing off, I realized this post will match my area code (310). Time to stop posting for the week, sit back and reflect before I resume posting (_not really)_.
   
  Post Script.:  Clayton, if you have a Canon point & shoot (pocket camera), I can modify it for Long-exposure mimicking a DSLR (provide you with instruction). I needed the ability for night photography before acquiring my Nikon. (_since editing moved me away from post '310', guess I'm free to post about all things Woo and indirectly Woo related_)


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> *ARGH!!!!*
> My EML just blew; again.  I was changing out a pair of ECC32's for my TungSol TSRP's.  I waited for the amp to cool down and when I turned it back on, the fireworks show happened.  I have a PS Audio P5 and my voltage is set to 120 and it never goes above so I know it's not an over voltage problem.
> 
> The last time this happened it was the same thing.  Changed a pair of driver tubes and boom.  I also bought a spare EML at that time, so it's not stopping me from listening to anything.  I'm pretty sure I'm still under warranty since this was purchased within the past year.  Those rectifiers with the thin filaments sure do like to go up in smoke.  I hope Jack does not think I'm a problem customer.


 


 EML Tubes are a problem and I will NOT use them I bought a pair of EML 300Bs for my speaker amps and in less then four months one of the filaments burned out. I got replacements
   and one of those filaments burned out and shorted to the grid and plate caused my speaker to bottom out with the big pop. I will not risk putting these poorly made over priced tubes
  in my expensive equipment. It don't matter how pretty they look or supposedly sound better it is not worth the risk of damaging your amp.
   I dont think Woo put a to big of a input capacitor in your amp a 5U4 calls for a max of 40uf input capacitor and voltage issue a tube should take + - 10% even if your line voltage is 130v
  it should not affect the 5U4. Just all the problems mentioned in this thread says something. Tubes have been in use now for 90 years and in all those years there was no problem
  with line voltage. When you were young and everything ran off tubes did tubes in your TV burn out every couple of months I think not.
   If it were me I would go to NOS 5U4 you can find one that sounds as good heck you would be better off putting a Sovteck 5U4G in there it wont short out and damage your amp.


----------



## Wedge

I don't even think they really sound better either, JMO.  I prefer the EAT 300Bs I have.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> ... Tubes have been in use now for 90 years and in all those years there was no problem...
> with line voltage. _*When you were young and everything ran off tubes did tubes in your TV burn out every couple of months I think not.*_
> If it were me I would go to NOS 5U4 you can find one that sounds as good heck you would be better off putting a Sovteck 5U4G in there it wont short out and damage your amp.


 
  x2.
  Absolutely--I agree. I am with you on this. I am now using RCA 5U4G black plates and have stopped rolling (for the time being) and am loving it. If the EMLs were reliable then that would be a different story but apparently they are not. So I am sticking with tried and true NOS and worry-free listening.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I don't even think they really sound better either, JMO.  I prefer the EAT 300Bs I have.


 


 I went and got some NOS Western electric 300Bs 3 years ago and no problems they were expensive but I would have saved money if i bought them in the first place. I have my
  amps on at least 5 nights a week so I put allot of hours on them. And the WEs sound better than anything out there but I haven't tried the EATs yet.


----------



## Wedge

I really wish I had NOS WE300Bs, but realistically I can't afford them.  I have not had any problems with EATs yet.  Had problems with EML, Shuguangs, never the EATs.  
   
  Oh well.


----------



## grokit

I feel like I should roll my replacement EML back in just in case it wants to blow again while it's still got some time left on the warranty.
   
  Ah, screw it...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> EML Tubes are a problem and I will NOT use them I bought a pair of EML 300Bs for my speaker amps and in less then four months one of the filaments burned out. I got replacements
> and one of those filaments burned out and shorted to the grid and plate caused my speaker to bottom out with the big pop. I will not risk putting these poorly made over priced tubes
> in my expensive equipment. It don't matter how pretty they look or supposedly sound better it is not worth the risk of damaging your amp.
> I dont think Woo put a to big of a input capacitor in your amp a 5U4 calls for a max of 40uf input capacitor and voltage issue a tube should take + - 10% even if your line voltage is 130v
> ...


 

  
  Having learned of your background last autumn, I appreciate when you drop in & drop knowledge.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I really wish I had NOS WE300Bs, but realistically I can't afford them.  I have not had any problems with EATs yet.  Had problems with EML, Shuguangs, never the EATs.
> 
> Oh well.


 

 NOS 300Bs are just about unobtainable now when i bought mine I could have got 2 pair but that was allot of money and I still hear about the money I spent on the one pair. 3 years later
  I still get comments about $1200 for a couple of old tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I feel like I should roll my replacement EML back in just in case it wants to blow again while it's still got some time left on the warranty.
> 
> Ah, screw it...


 


  Going back a year it seems many of the EML glass (5U4G) reportedly fail around four months. _I'm nervously entering month four..._


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Going back a year it seems many of the EML glass (5U4G) reportedly fail around four months. _I'm nervously entering month four..._


 

 Thats how long buth pairs of my EML 300Bs lasted four months


----------



## Wedge

WE will be reopening later this year, so I am told.  Some will say they aren't the same but they are supposed to be remakes.  If they are close enough I'd be happy to save a few sheckles.  I  heard of custom made 300Bs in the near future from Woo as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wedge said:


> WE will be reopening later this year, so I am told.  Some will say they aren't the same but they are supposed to be remakes.  If they are close enough I'd be happy to save a few sheckles.  I  heard of custom made 300Bs in the near future from Woo as well.


 


 If WE reopens I will buy a couple of pair befoer thay close again. Woos 300Bs will probably be rebranded Chinese tubes but maybe
  made to better specs.


----------



## Skylab

I also prefer the sound of NOS 5U4's over the Sophia and EML, and I am 100% convinced that they work better. I know not everyone likes the Tung Sol 5u4G, but I love it.


----------



## Wedge

I use a pair of those.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wedge said:


> WE will be reopening later this year, so I am told.  Some will say they aren't the same but they are supposed to be remakes.  If they are close enough I'd be happy to save a few sheckles.  I  heard of custom made 300Bs in the near future from Woo as well.


 


  Are environmental concerns the only thing that would prevent W.E. from duplicating their earlier success? I'd like to see them return as we once knew them...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





wedge said:


> WE will be reopening later this year, so I am told.  Some will say they aren't the same but they are supposed to be remakes.  If they are close enough I'd be happy to save a few sheckles.  I  heard of custom made 300Bs in the near future from Woo as well.


 

 That's a big if on whoever will be the maker of the WE300B's opening, but if that happens I will get a pair and post my thoughts on how they compare to the original WE300B's.


----------



## jonnyhambone

So, I'm sending my order to Jack for a WA 6SE (silver) this weekend!  I'm thinking I'll get the amp, let it burn in for awhile and get the flavor, then consider any additional tube rolling/additions.  My budget is small on this and my good phones are HF-1's...any rec's on one or two 'must - haves' for tubes/enhancements for my new Woo?  I've been leaning towards just going for a Sophia Princess but have read of many really liking the synergy of the cheaper 6EW7 set paired w/ HF-1's...  Any which way, I'm anxiously awaiting a new amp!  Thanks for any input...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I went and got some NOS Western electric 300Bs 3 years ago and no problems they were expensive but I would have saved money if i bought them in the first place. I have my
> amps on at least 5 nights a week so I put allot of hours on them. And the WEs sound better than anything out there but I haven't tried the EATs yet.


 

 Yes that is my feeling as well that I have saved money, after going with the real nos WE300B's matched date code's (56/26) and readings I would never want for more.
  And yes the real WE300B's have a very long life span.

 I take it your WE300B's are the original WE300B's not the remakes.


----------



## bergnerm

Clayton, you may be able to make the shot, even with a cheap camera. Many inexpensive cameras have the ability to set a shutter (speed) priority (a dial setting Tv or S). In a relatively dark room, set the exposure for 1 to 5 seconds. You'll need a small tripod, beanbag, wadded up shirt... something to stabilize the camera, since it can't be handheld for that long. A mini tripod and camera can be had for $100-150 to do this.
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It's good to see the Sophia Princess back on stage an in the limelight. For a while she was getting bad press, but now it seems it's the EML's turn.
> 
> Those are great photos of your tubes on the WA22. I can never seem to capture my tubes in the glow it deserves; I have a cheap camera. I'm getting ready to pour some Brut sparkling wine and toast the WA22. Cheers!


----------



## Clayton SF

bergnerm--thanks for the tip. I guess a tripod is what I lack and had terrible results having to handhold the camera. I shall try your suggested techniques as soon as the sun sets and as soon as I wad up my shirt.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> bergnerm--thanks for the tip. I guess a tripod is what I lack and had terrible results having to handhold the camera. I shall try your suggested techniques as soon as the sun sets and as soon as I wad up my shirt.


 


 Wouldn't kleenex be cleaner then using your shirt?


----------



## Eee Pee

Look for the delayed picture taking option or setting.  Geez, I don't even know what to call it.  It's a setting you can choose, typically 2 or 5 or 10 seconds.  
   
  Put the camera on a surface (desk, shirt, tripod), focus, hit the button and the delayed timer will allow the camera to stabilize and you'll (hopefully) get a good, clear shot.
   
  Maybe that was a given?


----------



## john57

What this feature more commonly called, self timer or sometimes called delayed shutter in some cases.


----------



## Icenine2

I can't find any ever it seems.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I also prefer the sound of NOS 5U4's over the Sophia and EML, and I am 100% convinced that they work better. I know not everyone likes the Tung Sol 5u4G, but I love it.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes that is my feeling as well that I have saved money, after going with the real nos WE300B's matched date code's (56/26) and readings I would never want for more.
> And yes the real WE300B's have a very long life span.
> 
> I take it your WE300B's are the original WE300B's not the remakes.


 

 Yes they are the original I would like to get more they are getting a browning on the inside of the glass at the top of the tubes. I put allot of hours on them on almost every day
  from the time I get home from work till I go to bed.
    I tried 2 pairs Sovteck , 2 pairs Svetlana , 3 pairs of JJ , 2 pairs of EML , and a pair made in China . Actually the Chinese tubes are the only ones that I haven't had a problem with the filament
  burning out. none of these tubes lasted two years. I think of all the money I spent should have just bought the WEs 12 years ago and would be money ahead and had better sound all
  along. The WEs have been in continuous use for 3 years now with no problems.


----------



## complex

Finally upgraded from my WA2...


----------



## Icenine2

Oh.........my...................that is nice!  I still see one of these in my future.


----------



## Icenine2

Glen,
   
  What kind of tube amps are those?  Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> EML Tubes are a problem and I will NOT use them I bought a pair of EML 300Bs for my speaker amps and in less then four months one of the filaments burned out. I got replacements
> and one of those filaments burned out and shorted to the grid and plate caused my speaker to bottom out with the big pop. I will not risk putting these poorly made over priced tubes
> in my expensive equipment. It don't matter how pretty they look or supposedly sound better it is not worth the risk of damaging your amp.
> I dont think Woo put a to big of a input capacitor in your amp a 5U4 calls for a max of 40uf input capacitor and voltage issue a tube should take + - 10% even if your line voltage is 130v
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Look for the delayed picture taking option or setting.  Geez, I don't even know what to call it.  It's a setting you can choose, typically 2 or 5 or 10 seconds.
> 
> Put the camera on a surface (desk, shirt, tripod), focus, hit the button and the delayed timer will allow the camera to stabilize and you'll (hopefully) get a good, clear shot.
> 
> Maybe that was a given?


 

 While in complete darkness, should I manually set the seconds or place the camera on in Auto Mode and let it chose the exposure itself? I guess I can experiment.
  Thanks Eee Pee and john57.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Glen,
> 
> What kind of tube amps are those?  Thanks.


 


 They are home made all direct heated triode direct coupled no capacitors in the signal path. They use a RCA 210 with the plate hooked directly to the grid of the 300B
  very few parts in the amp just a few resistors tubes and the output transformer. Less is more. less coloring from capacitors. They do have a Farley complex power supply
   7.5 volt DC for the filament/cathode of the 210 and 0-425-850 volt DC for the 210 and 300B


----------



## vinyllp33

silent one said:


> Going back a year it seems many of the EML glass (5U4G) reportedly fail around four months. _I'm nervously entering month four..._




Yes it is a shame that each time I fire up my amp I tend to worry about the EML's and not the NOS vintage tubes.

If I could find something that sounded as good (5U4G type) I would move on, but as of yet I have not, at least in my set up.


----------



## dannie01

Wow, beautiful set up. Congrats, complex.

  
  Quote: 





complex said:


> Finally upgraded from my WA2...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> They are home made all direct heated triode direct coupled no capacitors in the signal path. They use a RCA 210 with the plate hooked directly to the grid of the 300B
> very few parts in the amp just a few resistors tubes and the output transformer. Less is more. less coloring from capacitors. They do have a Farley complex power supply
> 7.5 volt DC for the filament/cathode of the 210 and 0-425-850 volt DC for the 210 and 300B


 


  When you've the chance, could you illuminate our computer screens with photographs (or PM me)?


----------



## Icenine2

+1
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> When you've the chance, could you illuminate our computer screens with photographs (or PM me)?


----------



## bergnerm

Very nice looking setup, complex... I'm anxious to hear your impressions... I got a maxed WA2 a few months ago and am amazed by the sound, but now I'm tempted by the WA5LE--I can't see how it could improve, but I'm sure it does. Please let us know your thoughts when you've had a bit of time to burn it in.
   
  Quote: 





complex said:


> Finally upgraded from my WA2...


----------



## Icenine2

C,
   
  Are you going to drive speakers w/that as well?  Or are you going to by electrostatics down the line?  Did you get the upgrade package and last how are the stock tubes w/it?
  
  Quote: 





complex said:


> Finally upgraded from my WA2...


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I've always wondered why PS Audio's DAC is so huge. What's they got a-hidden in there, eh?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ I've always wondered why PS Audio's DAC is so huge. What's they got a-hidden in there, eh?


 


  Here is the link to internal shot of PWD.  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/492556/perfect-wave-dac-owner-unite/75#post_6976598


----------



## MorbidToaster

Figured this was the place to ask. 
   
  Is there anyone in the Austin area with a WA22? Really want to hear it with my HE 500 (and possibly my future W4S DAC-1/Zodiac). 
   
  Gotta hear it single ended I suppose, but I'll be looking to go 4 Pin.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When you've the chance, could you illuminate our computer screens with photographs (or PM me)?


 

 Ok I will take some pictures I have to figure out how to post a picture here   You can see pictures of some of my amp creations on E-Bay  I am also 2359glenn there


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ok I will take some pictures I have to figure out how to post a picture here   You can see pictures of some of my amp creations on E-Bay  I am also 2359glenn there


 
   
  Let me give you a hand on this...  It looks amazing, wonder how it sounds with LCD-2.  Any internal shots?


----------



## brasewel

Wow that looks really nice. Any idea on how it pairs with the LCD-2?


----------



## complex

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> C,
> 
> Are you going to drive speakers w/that as well?  Or are you going to by electrostatics down the line?  Did you get the upgrade package and last how are the stock tubes w/it?


 

 I am planning on getting some bookshelf speakers to use with it, but I don't know much about the speaker world. Any recommendations? I don't need anything super powerful as they'll be flanking the monitor on my desk, so I'll only be sitting ~2 feet away. My budget is probably up to $1,000.
   
  No upgraded parts, although I did order a pair of Svetlana 300Bs since I've heard good things.


----------



## Wedge

I used my WA-5 with Paradigm Studio 20s.  I have heard from some folks that the Zu Audios sound good too.


----------



## Icenine2

I've heard the same about Zu too.


----------



## dminches

I use Totem Mites and think they sound very nice.  I sit less than 3 feet from them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Ok I will take some pictures I have to figure out how to post a picture here   You can see pictures of some of my amp creations on E-Bay  I am also 2359glenn there


 


  @2359glenn; jc9394
   
  Thanks...


----------



## Wedge

I generally use Dynaudio Focus 110 and I sit pretty close to them too, but I think these speakers were not well driven by the WA-5.


----------



## Icenine2

I would try to find a stereo store that has a demo to bring home and try.  Of course if that is all possible.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Yikes, I missed a lot of hubbub while I was away.  First off congrats to Rob and everybody else who is getting a new amp.  Second, it is sad to see more trouble with EML here.  My 274B has been trouble free, and all the complaints have been about 5U4G tubes so maybe there is something to that.....  I can definitely appreciate the opinion of older tubes being better made, but to my ears nothing touches my EML for sound quality.  The bass control and inner resolution is just not there with all the other rectifiers I have, and I have a few good ones.  Perhaps it is psychological because the EML was expensive, but extended listening sessions always bear my opinion out.  It is hard to listen to another tube for any length of time when switched directly for the EML because it just feels like some of the music is missing to me.  The only tube that even comes close is my Brimar 5R4, which I do find very enjoyable so long as I give myself a waiting period between using it and the EML.  Since my 274B has been trouble free, despite my having rolled it in and out of the amp more often than is probably sensible, I'll just take it for what it is and hope it gives a long service life.


----------



## Silent One

EML Glass ~
   
  I can't help but think there might be something inherently wrong with Emission Labs plant processes. Stemming possibly from raw materials used, cost-cutting moves and so on. And since the family of tubes share similar processes, perhaps their design version of the 5U4G itself is solid, but simply more susceptible to the plant's processes.
   
  Sometimes, manufacturers make decisions to grow, thrive or survive. But when disaster strikes, these moves can be seen as _"Penny-wise & Pound Foolish" _ later on down the road.
   
  I do know that they examined their operations hard a couple of times last year. What I don't know is how this all came to be. To me, it would be fascinating to learn what factor(s) were responsible. I may invest in EML's 274B just for backup, as I do enjoy EML's signature.


----------



## dmac03

Its been awhile since I've been on this thread since my wife and I are just a couple weeks away from closing on a new home. Unfortunately, I've been laid up by a pneumothorax which has provided me plently of time to catch up with everything.
   
  Rob I'm looking forward to you receiving you wa22. I may need to apologize in advance because I may become annoying asking about the different tube combos you try.
   
  I'm glad that I heard (but sad at the same time mikemalter) about the EML tube issues before I purchased one. Like the Tung-Sol 5U4G, what are some other NOS rectifiers that other woo-sters are using with success? I'm specifically looking for something that will help thin out the lower end of my bass heavy ps1000's.


----------



## shipsupt

I wanted to thank you guys for recommending Bob Putnak over at Tubesound.com for purchasing a tube tester.  My beautiful Jackson 648 arrived today and I proudly tested my first tube!  I have to admit I had a bit of a emotional moment as I know my Dad would have loved to be there with me.  He must have used similar testers in the Navy and in his career.  So many years ago he introduced me to tubes, and I know he was looking down over me to make sure I got the settings right. 
   
  Bob was extremely helpful in assisting me with choosing the right tester for my needs.  His packing was absolutely outstanding, the thing was ready to go through a war with no damage.  Side note, the prices on his site generally include shipping, which is no small sum when it comes to these large heavy items.  Be sure to consider this when comparing cost.  The unit looks fantastic and works flawlessly.  I'd definitely recommend Bob if you are in the market for a tester.
   
  A quick snap of the Jackson 648...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I wanted to thank you guys for recommending Bob Putnak over at Tubesound.com for purchasing a tube tester.  My beautiful Jackson 648 arrived today and I proudly tested my first tube!  I have to admit I had a bit of a emotional moment as I know my Dad would have loved to be there with me.  He must have used similar testers in the Navy and in his career.  So many years ago he introduced me to tubes, and I know he was looking down over me to make sure I got the settings right.
> 
> Bob was extremely helpful in assisting me with choosing the right tester for my needs.  His packing was absolutely outstanding, the thing was ready to go through a war with no damage.  Side note, the prices on his site generally include shipping, which is no small sum when it comes to these large heavy items.  Be sure to consider this when comparing cost.  The unit looks fantastic and works flawlessly.  I'd definitely recommend Bob if you are in the market for a tester.
> 
> A quick snap of the Jackson 648...


 


_C'est fantastique!_
   
  I'd be wise to start planning for its acquisition...


----------



## rosgr63

I bought 4 testers from Bob.
  He is a first class person, highly recommended.
  His guidance and after sales service are top.
  Best tool money can buy if you value your tube amp.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I wanted to thank you guys for recommending Bob Putnak over at Tubesound.com for purchasing a tube tester.  My beautiful Jackson 648 arrived today and I proudly tested my first tube!  I have to admit I had a bit of a emotional moment as I know my Dad would have loved to be there with me.  He must have used similar testers in the Navy and in his career.  So many years ago he introduced me to tubes, and I know he was looking down over me to make sure I got the settings right.
> 
> Bob was extremely helpful in assisting me with choosing the right tester for my needs.  His packing was absolutely outstanding, the thing was ready to go through a war with no damage.  Side note, the prices on his site generally include shipping, which is no small sum when it comes to these large heavy items.  Be sure to consider this when comparing cost.  The unit looks fantastic and works flawlessly.  I'd definitely recommend Bob if you are in the market for a tester.
> 
> A quick snap of the Jackson 648...


 

 Nice buy Shipsupt.  I agree, Bob is a great guy. I was reading one of his articles awhile ago, and sent him an email about one of my testers. He promptly replied even though he knew it wasn't about making a sale.


----------



## Skylab

That's a sweet looking tester! Very nice.

I got the WA22 yesterday. I'm wrestling with a bit of hum at the moment, but it sounds very good otherwise. For whatever reason, the WA22 did not like the GEC 6AS7Gs that were excellent in my WA2. Not sure why. So I'm using TS 2399 (which are just 5998's with the odd Burroughs number designation), and a Tung-Sol 5U4G. Hoping that a switch of ECC32's later this morning will eliminate the hum, but if not I will try some normal 6SN7's and see what I get. I will snap some pics then too.


----------



## jc9394

Nice Skylab...hope you will a short impression soon.
   
  Questions on tester, are they easy to use?  It looks very complicate..


----------



## brasewel

Awaiting your impressions Skylab, especially when paired with the LCD-2s. Wedge told me it was a pretty lush sounding amp with them.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's a sweet looking tester! Very nice.
> 
> I got the WA22 yesterday. I'm wrestling with a bit of hum at the moment, but it sounds very good otherwise. For whatever reason, the WA22 did not like the GEC 6AS7Gs that were excellent in my WA2. Not sure why. So I'm using TS 2399 (which are just 5998's with the odd Burroughs number designation), and a Tung-Sol 5U4G. Hoping that a switch of ECC32's later this morning will eliminate the hum, but if not I will try some normal 6SN7's and see what I get. I will snap some pics then too.


 

 Sky, when you say the WA22 did not like the GEC;s, how so?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice Skylab...hope you will a short impression soon.
> 
> Questions on tester, are they easy to use?  It looks very complicate..


 


  The Jackson is extremely easy to use and very fast to set up.
  It has a nice shorts test, better than Hickok.


----------



## shipsupt

It looks complicated, but it's actually pretty easy to operate.  You pretty much just make the settings as per the roll chart (or other chart) for the tube you are testing and then follow the instructions.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice Skylab...hope you will a short impression soon.
> 
> Questions on tester, are they easy to use?  It looks very complicate..


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice Skylab...hope you will a short impression soon.
> 
> Questions on tester, are they easy to use?  It looks very complicate..


 


 Very easy to use. If you're considering one, make sure it has a manual. Also, it should be calibrated either pre or post purchase. Otherwise, you may have false readings. Basically, all you do is set the switches to what the manual or roll chart say, and turn some knobs to do the test.


----------



## Toob-Toob

Got my Precision 10-12 from Bob at TubeSound as well. Highly recommended.
   

   
  While I'm at it, I'm breaking in a new Woo Audio WA2:


----------



## Skylab

brasewel said:


> Awaiting your impressions Skylab, especially when paired with the LCD-2s. Wedge told me it was a pretty lush sounding amp with them.


My first listen with the LCD-2 definitely yielded that sort of result - it was almost too lush. But that was just a short listen, more later.



mikemalter said:


> Sky, when you say the WA22 did not like the GEC;s, how so?


There was a channel imbalance with these tubes, which, oddly, did not change channels when I swapped tubes...very strange...and yet, when I went to the TS 2399's, I had no such issue...


----------



## oldwine

nice TS5998!!!
  
  Quote: 





toob-toob said:


> Got my Precision 10-12 from Bob at TubeSound as well. Highly recommended.
> 
> 
> 
> While I'm at it, I'm breaking in a new Woo Audio WA2:


----------



## Skylab

Here are a few glamor shots of the WA22, with the tube selection I have settled on, for now anyway:


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have found that the GEC's are very finickey tubes.  I have a perfect matched pair and yet I have audio issues before they are all warmed up.  It usually takes about 15 minutes before those tubes settle down.  IMHO, I also think that the GEC are highly revealing tubes so there may be an issue with the amp itself that is only apparent when they are in.  I have been thinking the same thing about my WA22, and was thinking about sending it back to Jack and having him take a look at it.  But, it is not enough of an issue for me to be without music for a while.


----------



## Wedge

The way I see it, it could really just be that the amp doesn't get along with the GECs.  I am anxiously awaiting Skylab's full impressions, would like to see how they stack up to my thoughts.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have found that the GEC's are very finickey tubes.  I have a perfect matched pair and yet I have audio issues before they are all warmed up.  It usually takes about 15 minutes before those tubes settle down.  IMHO, I also think that the GEC are highly revealing tubes so there may be an issue with the amp itself that is only apparent when they are in.  I have been thinking the same thing about my WA22, and was thinking about sending it back to Jack and having him take a look at it.  But, it is not enough of an issue for me to be without music for a while.


 


 Short term pain, for long term gain... You would have had it back already if you sent it back last time.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Here are a few glamor shots of the WA22, with the tube selection I have settled on, for now anyway:


 


 She's a beauty eh. Nice kit that.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Short term pain, for long term gain... You would have had it back already if you sent it back last time.


----------



## complex

Thanks for all the speaker suggestions, everyone.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Nicely done! I love the symmetry of the curvaceous 5998s on the outside and 5U4G on the inside.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Here are a few glamor shots of the WA22, with the tube selection I have settled on, for now anyway:


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My first listen with the LCD-2 definitely yielded that sort of result - it was almost too lush. But that was just a short listen, more later.






   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Here are a few glamor shots of the WA22, with the tube selection I have settled on, for now anyway:


 
   
   
  Rob if you have access to Woo's currently available WA22 tube upgrade package, you may find them to match up very well with the LCD-2 as I do. I thought many of the other tube combos I have tried to be on the "lush" side as well with that headphone out of that amp. I have posted before about this but based upon the lack of feedback I could be the only one that has tried this tube combo with the WA22 > LCD-2:


----------



## Nova13

Does anyone have any experience with the 2399 Chatham?  A rebranded TS 5998 supposedly?
   
  Are they identical, and if not, any differences I need to be aware of?  
   
  Its for my WA3.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Rob if you have access to Woo's currently available WA22 tube upgrade package, you may find them to match up very well with the LCD-2 as I do. I thought many of the other tube combos I have tried to be on the "lush" side as well with that headphone out of that amp. I have posted before about this but based upon the lack of feedback I could be the only one that has tried this tube combo with the WA22 > LCD-2:


 
   
  Thanks, but I am not interested in either current production tubes, nor do I want to buy ANY more tubes of the sorts that the WA22 uses, because I have LOTS of these tubes types already.  Appreciate the post, though


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the 2399 Chatham?  A rebranded TS 5998 supposedly?
> 
> Are they identical, and if not, any differences I need to be aware of?
> 
> Its for my WA3.


 

 Yes they are identical.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks, but I am not interested in either current production tubes, nor do I want to buy ANY more tubes of the sorts that the WA22 uses, because I have LOTS of these tubes types already.  Appreciate the post, though


 

 Your loss then


----------



## danne

Lovely pictures everyone, keep them coming!
  I'm still waiting for my balanced cable for the HD800, but rocking the SE meanwhile


----------



## dmac03

Rob, what differences are you hearing when you are rolling the 2399's vs the 5998's?


----------



## Skylab

I didn't try any tubes designated 5998 yet, but the 2399 is identical to the 5998 - there should not be any difference.  Only using the 2399 so far.


----------



## mikemalter

Got an email back from Jack today about my blown EML.  He said for me to send it back to him and it will be replaced under warranty.  I'm really glad he backs up his stuff.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Got an email back from Jack today about my blown EML.  He said for me to send it back to him and it will be replaced under warranty.  I'm really glad he backs up his stuff.


 


 Was anything mentioned about the WA22, possibly being the cause?


----------



## Golfnutz

One thing I noticed today, even thought the blue light was still flashing on start up, there was sound coming out of the headphones (I had forgotten to turn the volume down as I usually have it at zero when turning it on). I know you still get sound from the amp even when shutting down, and it's turned off, but I was a bit surprised to hear something on start up.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Was anything mentioned about the WA22, possibly being the cause?


 

 No, he did say that EML's production line is very slow and they have trouble getting them and that it will probably take a few weeks to get a replacement.
   
  The last time this happened I bought a spare so I'm covered.  I really like the EML a lot.  I am swapping it out with a Mullard GZ37, but it is making popping noises when it is first turned on so I'm swapping it out with the vendor. 
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> One thing I noticed today, even thought the blue light was still flashing on start up, there was sound coming out of the headphones (I had forgotten to turn the volume down as I usually have it at zero when turning it on). I know you still get sound from the amp even when shutting down, and it's turned off, but I was a bit surprised to hear something on start up.


 

 It's muscle memory for me now to first turn down the volume and then turn off the amp.  I've never turned the amp on with the volume at anything other than 0 so I have never heard it.  It's probably ok.


----------



## Golfnutz

No, I just meant what's the point of the 30 second delay....
   
  Do you hear much difference between the EML and GZ37?


----------



## Icenine2

+1
   
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Was anything mentioned about the WA22, possibly being the cause?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Got an email back from Jack today about my blown EML.  He said for me to send it back to him and it will be replaced under warranty.  I'm really glad he backs up his stuff.


 

 Blown EML Glass ~
   
  (Silent One carefully sits down, Gaiwan in hand, in front of the computer screen without making any noise. Looks up to read post #10548 and exhales - a sigh of relief so loud, the neighborhood dogs all start to bark...)


----------



## Silent One

A Wonderful Wednesday Evening ~
   
  The W4S box just shipped. And Pure Music v1.8 debuts within the next few hours...


----------



## jerico

skylab said:


> Here are a few glamor shots of the WA22, with the tube selection I have settled on, for now anyway:




I had the exact same tube lineup for my 22+LCD2, thought the other day I rolled out the 5998/2399 for Sylvania 7236 for a change of pace. I find the 7236 is warmer/bass strong, and the 2399/5988 a little more detailed, and 7236 has a bit more soundstage. Both were very nice with LCD2 to my ears.

I'm curious if you hear similarly/differently. But either way, enjoy!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the 2399 Chatham?  A rebranded TS 5998 supposedly?
> 
> Are they identical, and if not, any differences I need to be aware of?
> 
> Its for my WA3.


 


  Some TS tubes have the 2399 number on them, and these are definitely 5998s.  On the other hand, there is some question about whether or not the Chatham 2399 is a 5998 or a 6AS7G _electrically_  speaking.  I read through the entire 6AS7G tube rolling thread and this question came up several times with the consensus being that nobody really knows due to the non-existent nature of 2399 Chatham data sheets now.  It is easy to say it is a 5998 based on plate appearance, but we have to remember that TS also made the 6520 which was a 6AS7G electrically but often used the domino style 5998 plates.  The easiest way to tell should be by gain.  The 5998 is much higher gain than a 6AS7G which should answer the question easily enough.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Rob, I'm a bit surprised to hear you say the WA22 is too lush with the 5998s in place.  Since they lean a bit more towards SS than a 6AS7G I was figuring they'd strike a good balance with the LCD-2.  I like lush, but have found that there is definitely such a thing as too lush, which makes me wonder if my WA22 customization plans are the best choice (swapping the coupling caps for Mundorf Silver-in-Oils and the filtering caps for Elna Silnics).  I don't want to mellow the amp out _too_ much, since my favorite 6SN7 lean to the dark side anyway.
   
  Keep the impressions coming though!  I, and I'm sure many others, would love to hear more.


----------



## MacedonianHero

xcalibur255 said:


> Rob, I'm a bit surprised to hear you say the WA22 is too lush with the 5998s in place.  Since they lean a bit more towards SS than a 6AS7G I was figuring they'd strike a good balance with the LCD-2.  I like lush, but have found that there is definitely such a thing as too lush, which makes me wonder if my WA22 customization plans are the best choice (swapping the coupling caps for Mundorf Silver-in-Oils and the filtering caps for Elna Silnics).  I don't want to mellow the amp out _too_ much, since my favorite 6SN7 lean to the dark side anyway.
> 
> Keep the impressions coming though!  I, and I'm sure many others, would love to hear more.




?

I find the TS5998s a "tubier" tube and the 7236s a "SS"ish tube.


----------



## Wedge

Well, it was only a short listen he has had, so I would give him some more time to form his opinion, as well work out any issues he is having, hum, etc.  When I had the amp it seemed a little finnicky with which tubes I had in it, but ultimately it worked with TS5998s, Mullard ECC32s, and RCA 5U4G.  It also worked with TS7236.
   
  My impressions of the amp were that it was a bit lush, kind of right on that line and depending on my mood it would either be too lush or just shy of being too lush.


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Well, it was only a short listen he has had, so I would give him some more time to form his opinion, as well work out any issues he is having, hum, etc.  When I had the amp it seemed a little finnicky with which tubes I had in it, but ultimately it worked with TS5998s, Mullard ECC32s, and RCA 5U4G.  It also worked with TS7236.
> 
> My impressions of the amp were that it was a bit lush, kind of right on that line and depending on my mood it would either be too lush or just shy of being too lush.


 

 I think I'm glad I didn't hear it at your place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I like a smooth lush sound, but not overly lush.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's a bit of a shame the amp seems to be finicky about tubes.  I have played with many combinations of driver and rectifier and all have been dead silent, but I imagine the WA6 is a simpler amp as well with fewer opportunities to pick up hum.  Maybe it is the power tubes that add this factor the most.
   
  Rob, are you running the WA22 with balanced or unbalanced input?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's a bit of a shame the amp seems to be finicky about tubes.  I have played with many combinations of driver and rectifier and all have been dead silent, but I imagine the WA6 is a simpler amp as well with fewer opportunities to pick up hum.  Maybe it is the power tubes that add this factor the most.
> 
> Rob, are you running the WA22 with balanced or unbalanced input?


 
  It's too bad he sold his WA2 before he got the WA22 just in case he finds out that he prefers the 2 over the 22.


----------



## Skylab

Sadly, that was a risk I sort of had to take - no room for a WA2 and a WA22, and when I listed the WA2, it sold in a few hours. So that was that.

The WA22 is a bit lush with the LCD-2, it seems to me, even with the 5998 power tubes, and the Sylvania 6SN7W as drivers. Not overly so, though.

I have always felt the 7236 was less tubey than the 5998, but I may try the 7236. Honestly though I didn't get the WA22 for the LCD-2. I like it with the Leben and the Trafomatic plenty enough as it is. I want the WA22 to be lush, as I wanted to use it with the HD800 and T1. 

I have both balanced and unbalanced sources for the WA22. It's clearly better sounding with balanced.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sadly, that was a risk I sort of had to take - no room for a WA2 and a WA22, and when I listed the WA2, it sold in a few hours. So that was that.
> 
> The WA22 is a bit lush with the LCD-2, it seems to me, even with the 5998 power tubes, and the Sylvania 6SN7W as drivers. Not overly so, though.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I personally prefer the TS 7236 over 5998s with the LCD-2.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> I personally prefer the TS 7236 over 5998s with the LCD-2.


 

X2, whoops I have the Sylvania 7236 but I agree in principle.


----------



## Skylab

Well, I have some TS7236's, so I may give those a try down the road. First I want to see if the 5998's I have in there will become hum- free with some run in, as I still have a little more residual hum at the moment than I would like.


----------



## shipsupt

tgdvk said:


> Can I join? I have not receive my amp yet.




Nope, you have to take receipt and post pictures here first...


----------



## vinyllp33

Greetings fellow Woo Amp owners. 
   
  Just a quick note; anyone here interested in Sophia 274B and EML 5U4G check the listing I just posted in the For Sale (Cable, Tweaks, etc.) forum. 
   
  Cheers!


----------



## MorbidToaster

This is what I want for my HE 500...4 Pin Balanced rig going with this ridiculously sexy amp. 
   
  Hnnnnnnnnnnnnngh.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Here are a few glamor shots of the WA22, with the tube selection I have settled on, for now anyway:


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A Wonderful Wednesday Evening ~
> 
> The W4S box just shipped. And Pure Music v1.8 debuts within the next few hours...


----------



## MorbidToaster

What W4S did you nab? I really want to hear about it. Think a DAC-1 is my next purchase.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


>


----------



## avsBuddy

Gee, I leave for 2 weeks. 2 WEEKS, and all of my WA2 brothers change their amps on me! Complex, Skylab - what's going ooooooooooooooon! 
   
  Congratulation guys! As a WA2 owner I would be very curious in your guys comparative impression of your new toys! Thanks in advance  (My wallet will not thank you though)
  Quote: 





complex said:


> Finally upgraded from my WA2...


----------



## flaming_june

We all want to move to bigger and better things man.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


>


 

  
  And because Wyred4Sound is located in Atascadero, I'll take delivery later this afternoon (Thursday).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm still picking up small gifts for my Woo's 1 year anniversary next month. So, for the DAC-1, I'm getting a WireWorld Electra 5* Power Conditioning Cord w/Furutech 24k Gold connectors. And WireWorld Eclipse 6 Analogue Interconnects.
   
  Hopefully, the WireWorld package will drop next week! My WA6SE is deserving for displaying patience throughout the year.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm going to try one of the power chords from Wyred4sound for the DAC-2
   
  http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/47115


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> What W4S did you nab? I really want to hear about it. Think a DAC-1 is my next purchase.


 


  I chose the W4S DAC-1 because it offers me more flexibility at this time over the DAC-2. _"What?!" I hear people thinking already... _No, I did not get the two units mixed up. Rather, with all the $$$ I saved getting the DAC-1, I'm in a greater position for the next move while the DAC-1 adequately serves me. Those moves are potentially:
   
  Upgrade the DAC-1; Buy a DAC-2; DAC-2 fully blown; W4S's forthcoming DAC or Box (in the works); Woo Audio's DAC; WA22; 2nd WA6SE for Mono Block config.
   
  These are some of my unemployment strategies. However, getting a new job later this year changes everything. _My new system... will... be... wicked!!! _Or will it?! I've yet to see my Audioogist for the year. Depending on her findings, a more subdued 'Silent One' could re-emerge on head-fi...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm going to try one of the power chords from Wyred4sound for the DAC-2
> 
> http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/47115


 

 They look like a solid value. I'm going to get one later and keep in inventory. By the way, is your Leopard v8.1 minimum? Did you try booting into 64-bit kernel & extensions?


----------



## spagetka

Just received a package with a pair EAT 300B...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Just received a package with a pair EAT 300B...


 
   
  EAT 300B's ~

 Lunch? _Overrated... let's get 'em in!_


----------



## Broken Arrow

just ordered a complete set of tubes for my WA5-LE.
   
  it is still below 50 hours of playtime , but i just wanted to order them anyway.
  matched pair of Sophia Mesh 300B , Sophia 274B Mesh and a set of Sophia 6sn7.


----------



## spagetka

That's the beauty of WA5/WA5LE - full control over sound signature.
   
  Quote:


broken arrow said:


> just ordered a complete set of tubes for my WA5-LE.
> 
> it is still below 50 hours of playtime , but i just wanted to order them anyway.
> matched pair of Sophia Mesh 300B , Sophia 274B Mesh and a set of Sophia 6sn7.


----------



## Broken Arrow

yes it is , but the "downside" is that collecting tubes is going to cost more than that the amp costed in the first place.
   
  and i still have to get a DAC , but since Jack is coming out with a DAC i have to wait to make the right choice.
   
  but i am not complaining.
  
  Quote: 





spagetka said:


>


----------



## spagetka

yes, the cost is drawback, but... 
   
  There are a lot of great dac's... just for now my properly set up DAC1 with WW Starlight usb cable is more than good. Looking forward to try EAT tubes - hope that it will be better than Shuguang 300B-Z. 

  
  Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> yes it is , but the "downside" is that collecting tubes is going to cost more than that the amp costed in the first place.
> 
> and i still have to get a DAC , but since Jack is coming out with a DAC i have to wait to make the right choice.
> 
> but i am not complaining.


----------



## Icenine2

What W4S forthcoming DAC?  Box?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I chose the W4S DAC-1 because it offers me more flexibility at this time over the DAC-2. _"What?!" I hear people thinking already... _No, I did not get the two units mixed up. Rather, with all the $$$ I saved getting the DAC-1, I'm in a greater position for the next move while the DAC-1 adequately serves me. Those moves are potentially:
> 
> Upgrade the DAC-1; Buy a DAC-2; DAC-2 fully blown;* W4S's forthcoming DAC* or Box (in the works); Woo Audio's DAC; WA22; 2nd WA6SE for Mono Block config.
> 
> These are some of my unemployment strategies. However, getting a new job later this year changes everything. _My new system... will... be... wicked!!! _Or will it?! I've yet to see my Audioogist for the year. Depending on her findings, a more subdued 'Silent One' could re-emerge on head-fi...


----------



## Clayton SF

The vast majority of audiophiles shun amps with bass and treble controls for sound neutrality and transparency and yet we spend _muito dinheiro_, _mucho dinero, lotsa cash_, on tubes and such to alter the sound signature.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Huh?


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The vast majority of audiophiles shun amps with bass and treble controls for sound neutrality and transparency and yet we spend _muito dinheiro_, _mucho dinero, lotsa cash_, on tubes and such to alter the sound signature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  yep, interesting hobby we have here. haha


----------



## Icenine2

Clay,
   
  You could always go SS.  No rolling there!
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The vast majority of audiophiles shun amps with bass and treble controls for sound neutrality and transparency and yet we spend _muito dinheiro_, _mucho dinero, lotsa cash_, on tubes and such to alter the sound signature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, I have some TS7236's, so I may give those a try down the road. First I want to see if the 5998's I have in there will become hum- free with some run in, as I still have a little more residual hum at the moment than I would like.


 
   
  I have always experienced a little noise with all three pairs of TS 5998s that I have... just a little background noise when not playing a track.
  If you have some TS 6520s (I think you do), I'd try them with your ECC32s. They are dead quiet in my setup ECC32/GZ37/TS6520 with the HD 800s. I have a new appreciation for them.(6520s)


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I have always experienced a little noise with all three pairs of TS 5998s that I have... just a little background noise when not playing a track.
> If you have some TS 6520s (I think you do), I'd try them with your ECC32s. They are dead quiet in my setup ECC32/GZ37/TS6520 with the HD 800s. I have a new appreciation for them.(6520s)


 

 I have quite a few 6520's - some with 5998 innards, and some with 6AS7G innards.  Which are you using?  Thanks!


----------



## danne

@Skylab, Will we be seeing a reveiw from your side on the WA22 of yours soon?


----------



## Nova13

Do others have experiences with loud 5998's?
   
  I am about to roll my first new tubes into my WA3, and I was really hoping to get rid of that slightly background hum/noise you hear at high volumes, and was considering the TS 5998.  I don't want to spend the money if its going to get worse.
   
  If its notoriously a bit louder than other tubes, what would be a good alternative?  (Perhaps a Sylvania 7236?)


----------



## mikemalter

Question. 
   
  Has anyone else noticed that when they leave the same set of tubes in their amp for a while, the sound is smoother?  If I am tube rolling sometimes I get a combination that I do not like and it seems that I hit a rough patch and even when I go back to my good tubes, they don't sound as good the rest of the day. 
   
  I'm thinking it's not an amp thing but a physical human thing.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





danne said:


> @Skylab, Will we be seeing a reveiw from your side on the WA22 of yours soon?


 


 Probably not a full review, no - I tend to only do that for new products.  But I am sure if you are following this thread you will find a lot of blathering about it by me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The good news is (and Wedge I hope you are reading this) is that the hum is now basically gone, and it would seem that this was an issue of tube run in.  I wish I knew WHICH tubes needed the run-in - Wedge and I have had a fun PM dialog on this, where we have been hypothesizing that it may be the rectifier tube that actually might need it.  The tubes I am using right now were all 100% for sure NOS when I put them in, so it's not a surprise that something might have needed some break in.  Yes, I popped the cherry on like $400 worth of NOS for this amp - that's how much I want to hear it at its best!  When I first put in the initial tube set, and had the hum, ONLY the rectifier was NOS - the other tubes has plenty of burn in already from use in other amps.  So this leads me to believe that what I was getting was hum due to the need for some rectifier run-in (I did all the usual routines to make sure there was no ground loop, but since I dropped the WA22 in right where the WA2 had been, that seemed unlikely anyway).
   
   
  That said, right now the LCD-2 still seem a little dull on it.  I switched back to the HD800, and the HD800 are actually pretty nice sounding on the WA22 - which means that the WA22 is warming and softening them.  The LCD-2 don't want to be warmed and softened.  So at least right now, with this tube set, I like the WA22 better for the HD800 than the LCD-2.
   
  More later, though.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> yes, the cost is drawback, but...
> 
> There are a lot of great dac's... just for now my properly set up DAC1 with WW Starlight usb cable is more than good. Looking forward to try EAT tubes - hope that it will be better than Shuguang 300B-Z.


 

 Please post you impressions of the EAT. I have a pair of EML 300B Mesh in my WA5-LE and normally roll a pair of Mullard ECC32, Brimard CV1988 Black Base/Black Glass and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome top at the driver position and EML 5U4G Mesh, Mullard GZ37 or Brimar 5R4GY at the rectifier position so I am looking for a second a pair of 300B.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Do others have experiences with loud 5998's?
> 
> I am about to roll my first new tubes into my WA3, and I was really hoping to get rid of that slightly background hum/noise you hear at high volumes, and was considering the TS 5998.  I don't want to spend the money if its going to get worse.
> 
> If its notoriously a bit louder than other tubes, what would be a good alternative?  (Perhaps a Sylvania 7236?)


 

 Some people experience them as loud.  As for myself, yes I find them very loud and I have to use the low impedence setting.  Others here do not find them loud at all.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> You could always go SS.  No rolling there!


 

 I actually enjoy tube rolling, though I've stopped for now. I also used to use an equalizer with ss amps! At times I'm just befuddled by my audiophile logic.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Different sound perspectives is good--who wants to wear the same clothes all the time, right?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have quite a few 6520's - some with 5998 innards, and some with 6AS7G innards.  Which are you using?  Thanks!


 

 I know (think) that they are not the 5998 inards because?????, because they don't look like any of my other three pairs of TS 5998s. They also produce the less volume or power than the 5998s do at the same volume knob setting).
  I do use both, more recently the 6520 6as7 with classical chamber music...baroque if you will. They seem great to me with period accoustical music and top notch recording @ 24/96.
   
  BTW, thanks for the link to Bob Putnak. I will be getting one of his tube testers soon.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Question.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that when they leave the same set of tubes in their amp for a while, the sound is smoother?  If I am tube rolling sometimes I get a combination that I do not like and it seems that I hit a rough patch and even when I go back to my good tubes, they don't sound as good the rest of the day.
> 
> I'm thinking it's not an amp thing but a physical human thing.


 


 I do feel it's all about psychoacoustics, the human thing that you refer to. The same piece of music will sound different to me, depending on time of day, my mood, my alchoholic content 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, etc.
   
  When tube rolling, I often doubt my senses because of this. Things like expectation bias...you know, you just bought a pair (or 2) of Mullard ECC32s, and they sound better than TS BGRPs I think?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The vast majority of audiophiles shun amps with bass and treble controls for sound neutrality and transparency and yet we spend _muito dinheiro_, _mucho dinero, lotsa cash_, on tubes and such to alter the sound signature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Great observation, which always leaves me laughing... _albeit, silently._


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Do others have experiences with loud 5998's?
> 
> I am about to roll my first new tubes into my WA3, and I was really hoping to get rid of that slightly background hum/noise you hear at high volumes, and was considering the TS 5998.  I don't want to spend the money if its going to get worse.
> 
> If its notoriously a bit louder than other tubes, what would be a good alternative?  (Perhaps a Sylvania 7236?)


 
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Some people experience them as loud.  As for myself, yes I find them very loud and I have to use the low impedence setting.  Others here do not find them loud at all.


 

 I used two different pairs of Chatham 2399 which are the same tube and have never had a noise problem on either impedance setting with my WA22.
   
   
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I do feel it's all about psychoacoustics, the human thing that you refer to. The same piece of music will sound different to me, depending on time of day, my mood, my alchoholic content
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed. It's all about one's _ch'i/qi_, or _prana_, at the time of listening.


----------



## Skylab

The issue with tone controls is how incredibly poorly implemented most of them are.  I use the tone controls on my vintage Pioneer SX-1980 all the time, because they are so well thought out - very small increments, and the turnover frequencies are both 50 Hz and/or 100 Hz for the bass, and bith 10 kHz and/or 20kHz for the treble.  Many bass tone controls are 100 Hz only, which I fine almost always useless - adds nothing but bloat, or makes things way too thin when used subtractively.  50 Hz is much more useful.  And many many treble controls operate at more like 6kHz.  Having a 20kHz control can add a little bit of air when needed without adding sizzle down below.  And the first step is 2dB. Very helpful.  And of course there is that all important master defeat button.
   
  If more gear had well thought out tone controls like that. I think more people would use them.  Even the bass boost on the Leben is usually not useful, since it's smallest step is 3dB, which I find to be too much.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Question.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that when they leave the same set of tubes in their amp for a while, the sound is smoother?  If I am tube rolling sometimes I get a combination that I do not like and it seems that I hit a rough patch and even when I go back to my good tubes, they don't sound as good the rest of the day.
> 
> I'm thinking it's not an amp thing but a physical human thing.


 


  For me, the two _E's_ (Emotions & Electrons) makes for a fascinating _E_xplanation. With the former, same day experiences matter - what kind of day one is having. Additionally, an experience one might have had seven days prior may help or hurt their ability to emotionally connect to the music in the here and now.
   
  With the latter, electrons like an environment at rest. Wanna test that theory? Make your swaps, move your cables, bend your cables, rearrange your gear.. and put it all back like it was. It won't sound like it did or be at its best until time has a chance to settle things.
   
  Or buy a new cable that has a factory burn-in recommendation of 100 hours. Excited, one cooks it on their solid-state gear 24/7 - smiling at day 5. And they note a change in sound signature. Well, depending on the cable's design and materials used, it's going to need a certain amount of time to settle, no matter how fast one arrived at the total hours of run-time recommended. So, one may see another change yet again, say 21 days after installment. 
   
  These are my views from my own experiences inside my listening room. Admittedly, while I have an open mind,_ I'm also hungry_. And may have a different view on a full belly.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I do feel it's all about psychoacoustics, the human thing that you refer to. The same piece of music will sound different to me, depending on time of day, my mood, my alchoholic content
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with this 100%. Every single time I listen to a combination of equipment, it sounds a little different to me than the last time -- and it should, because the combination of mood, music and environment creates a unique context for listening that can never be duplicated exactly.
   
  As a result, I sometimes look back on comments I've made here in the past and think, man, that must have been a three-Scotch evening for me to have felt that way...


----------



## grokit

I have a lot of different tubes for my WA22 and I'm looking to streamline so I thought I would offer up a couple of trades if anyone is interested. I will put them up for sale soon if no one responds, along with a grab-bag of other tubes.
   
  First up is my EML 5U4G, which is a recent replacement from Tubes USA that only has a few hours on it from a single listening session to confirm functionality (perfect). I would like to trade it for an EML 274B in similar condition, as they sell for the same price. Basically I am leaning towards selling it because I prefer the Sophia Princess which is also a 274B, and want to try EML's version of that tube. This tube comes in the fancy gift box.
   
  I also have an extra matched pair of Chatham 2399 (same tube as Tungsol 5998) tubes that I purchased last year; this is the better pair that I just used for a couple of listening sessions before rolling in the other pair so they are "almost" NOS. I would like to trade them for a matched pair of of NOS Sylvania 7236 tubes in similar condition, which I'm pretty sure fetch a similar price. I have the boxes for these tubes as well.
   
  Photos are available these tubes upon request.


----------



## john57

General, I would use manual setting and go from there with no flash. I would use a bit of room light to fill in the picture a bit. I can control the room light by switching on different amounts of lights in the room. Experiment a bit is the key here. 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> While in complete darkness, should I manually set the seconds or place the camera on in Auto Mode and let it chose the exposure itself? I guess I can experiment.
> Thanks Eee Pee and john57.


----------



## Wedge

Enjoy the amp, as I did like it, but it really wasn't what I was looking for in the particular setup it was in.  Unfortunately I wish I had a pair of HD-800s to have listened to it on.
   
  Quote:


skylab said:


> The good news is (and Wedge I hope you are reading this) is that the hum is now basically gone, and it would seem that this was an issue of tube run in.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I do feel it's all about psychoacoustics, the human thing that you refer to. The same piece of music will sound different to me, depending on time of day, my mood, my alchoholic content
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Quote:


			
				grokit said:
			
		

> I used two different pairs of Chatham 2399 which are the same tube and have never had a noise problem on either impedance setting with my WA22.
> 
> Agreed. It's all about one's _ch'i/qi_, or _prana_, at the time of listening.


 

 Quote:


silent one said:


> For me, the two _E's_ (Emotions & Electrons) makes for a fascinating _E_xplanation. With the former, same day experiences matter - what kind of day one is having. Additionally, an experience one might have had seven days prior may help or hurt their ability to emotionally connect to the music in the here and now.
> 
> With the latter, electrons like an environment at rest. Wanna test that theory? Make your swaps, move your cables, bend your cables, rearrange your gear.. and put it all back like it was. It won't sound like it did or be at its best until time has a chance to settle things.
> 
> ...


 

 Quote:


olias of sunhillow said:


> I agree with this 100%. Every single time I listen to a combination of equipment, it sounds a little different to me than the last time -- and it should, because the combination of mood, music and environment creates a unique context for listening that can never be duplicated exactly.
> As a result, I sometimes look back on comments I've made here in the past and think, man, that must have been a three-Scotch evening for me to have felt that way...


 

 I did not say it very well.  What I mean is that I'll swap a tube and maybe the sound is really harsh and after a few hours I'll change it and when I go back to the baseline I like, everything sounds harsh for a while.  Generally that that will last for the rest of the day.
   
  But, I do understand the psychoacoustic component of listening.  Like after cleaning cable ends and listening I'll think that wow this sounds better and really I'm in a good mood because I cleaned and organized.  That kind of a thing.  This is a little different for me.  Anyway, just a thought.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wedge said:


>





> Enjoy the amp, as I did like it, but it really wasn't what I was looking for in the particular setup it was in.  Unfortunately I wish I had a pair of HD-800s to have listened to it on.


 

 Yeah, I understand why.  It's mellow, man!  I know why Woo says it is "Surreal" in terms of "Euphonic".  The WA22 is lusher even than the WA2, it seems to me.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, I understand why.  It's mellow, man!  I know why Woo says it is "Surreal" in terms of "Euphonic".  The WA22 is lusher even than the WA2, it seems to me.


 


 So what does this mean? Good, bad, neither? You like it, don't like it? Sounds colored, doesn't sound colored? Good driver compression, too soft? etc.


----------



## Skylab

It means I like it better with the HD-800 than I do with the LCD-2.  It's a little colored, yes, but not in a way that sticks out of is in any way dissonant with the music.  And for the HD-800, it's actually just what the doctor ordered!  Best I have heard them.  But it's funny, if I had owned the WA22 as my only amp, I could see how I might have been one of those people who thinks the HD-800 is right on and the LCD-2 is too soft/dark.  But since I have many, many other amps, I know that this is the WA22 that has this character, and that it's actually balancing the HD-800's brightness, which is great for the big Senn, but doesn't work well for the LCD-2.
   
  That is my early impression, subject to change with more experience and different tubes.  It's already been suggested the 7236 is a better tube choice for the LCD-2, and perhaps it may well be.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> What W4S forthcoming DAC?  Box?


 


  W4S told me they weren't at liberty to provide details circumventing their own product announcement. But did want to give me a heads up on projects in the pipeline that are coming out. My indications from these exchanges: an entry level DAC; perhaps a new Pre-amp, Integrated amp, Power amp. Or a new Digital device that ... (_Silent One keeps his word and remains silent_).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It means I like it better with the HD-800 than I do with the LCD-2.  It's a little colored, yes, but not in a way that sticks out of is in any way dissonant with the music.  And for the HD-800, it's actually just what the doctor ordered!  Best I have heard them.  But it's funny, if I had owned the WA22 as my only amp, I could see how I might have been one of those people who thinks the HD-800 is right on and the LCD-2 is too soft/dark.  But since I have many, many other amps, I know that this is the WA22 that has this character, and that it's actually balancing the HD-800's brightness, which is great for the big Senn, but doesn't work well for the LCD-2.
> 
> That is my early impression, subject to change with more experience and different tubes.  It's already been suggested the 7236 is a better tube choice for the LCD-2, and perhaps it may well be.


 

 That's interesting. I get the impression you're basically agreeing with what everyone else has commented about the WA22/HD800 combination. The nice thing about this amp is the consistency it brings to the consumer, especially someone who is considering making a new purchase (like you did - you probably had a good idea how it was going to sound even before you turned it on). It's also good to know that there are other options too, especially since ones HP is not somebody else cup of tea.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It means I like it better with the HD-800 than I do with the LCD-2.  It's a little colored, yes, but not in a way that sticks out of is in any way dissonant with the music.  And for the HD-800, it's actually just what the doctor ordered!  Best I have heard them.  But it's funny, if I had owned the WA22 as my only amp, I could see how I might have been one of those people who thinks the HD-800 is right on and the LCD-2 is too soft/dark.  But since I have many, many other amps, I know that this is the WA22 that has this character, and that it's actually balancing the HD-800's brightness, which is great for the big Senn, but doesn't work well for the LCD-2.


 

 Rob, thanks for your initial impressions. Many of us have assumed that the WA22's extra power would make it a more suitable choice for the LCD-2s than the WA2... but it's good to be reminded that real-world experience trumps assumptions every time. Power and specs only tell us so much.


----------



## spagetka

Till now, it was little better than built-in headamp in DAC1, but now... Well, I have a few hour on them but I have to say that this is what I was looking for. Great dynamic, really huge soundstage, perfect datail, very smooth. For the first time I am completely satisfied with my woo. My 804S / K1K sound so real.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -- EML 5U4G > ECC32 > EAT 300B
   
  Of course, I have to try my other drivers - tung sol VT231 and sylvania 6sn7w...
   
  If you like to have more info let me know.
   
 *edit 03-jun-11
  Forget Shuguang 300B-Z. No match for EAT 300B. EAT beats Shuguang in every aspect. I have around 500 hours on Shuguang, less than 10 hours on EAT. I am looking forward to hear EAT  after 100h burn-in period. 
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Please post you impressions of the EAT. I have a pair of EML 300B Mesh in my WA5-LE and normally roll a pair of Mullard ECC32, Brimard CV1988 Black Base/Black Glass and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome top at the driver position and EML 5U4G Mesh, Mullard GZ37 or Brimar 5R4GY at the rectifier position so I am looking for a second a pair of 300B.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Rob, thanks for your initial impressions. Many of us have assumed that the WA22's extra power would make it a more suitable choice for the LCD-2s than the WA2... but it's good to be reminded that real-world experience trumps assumptions every time. Power and specs only tell us so much.


 

 Yeah that's the key finding for me so far - plenty of power for the LCD-2 - but at least with the tubes I am using now, not an ideal sonic pairing.  I think the Trafomatic and Decware both sound better with the LCD-2 than the WA22, and they are slightly cheaper (though in the same basic price range).
   
  OTOH, the WA22 is much better for the HD-800 than either the Trafomatic or Decware.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah that's the key finding for me so far - plenty of power for the LCD-2 - but at least with the tubes I am using now, not an ideal sonic pairing.  I think the Trafomatic and Decware both sound better with the LCD-2 than the WA22, and they are slightly cheaper (though in the same basic price range).
> 
> OTOH, the WA22 is much better for the HD-800 than either the Trafomatic or Decware.


 

 Skylab,
   
  Thanks for sharing your impressions of headphones.


----------



## Skylab

My pleasure!  I should mention - source is an Oppo BDP-95.  I have found it to be a very good sounding, very neutral disc player, and importantly for the WA22, it has balanced outs.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My pleasure!  I should mention - source is an Oppo BDP-95.  I have found it to be a very good sounding, very neutral disc player, and importantly for the WA22, it has balanced outs.


 

 Have you had the opportunity to compare DAC output between the 95 and other DACS?
   
  Also, are you using the network interface?  How does that work?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah that's the key finding for me so far - plenty of power for the LCD-2 - but at least with the tubes I am using now, not an ideal sonic pairing.  I think the Trafomatic and Decware both sound better with the LCD-2 than the WA22, and they are slightly cheaper (though in the same basic price range).
> 
> OTOH, the WA22 is much better for the HD-800 than either the Trafomatic or Decware.


 

 Skylab, I totally forgot to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Thanks again.


----------



## dmac03

Has anyone looked into either the m1dac by musical fidelity or the nfb-1wm by audio-gd?
   
  I am in desperate need of a new balanced dac but would love to keep it well under 1k.


----------



## Skylab

@ Golfnutz - my pleasure!

@ MikeMalter - I find my Audio by Van Alstine DAC sounds a little better than the Oppo in general, when using the Oppo as a transport to feed the va versus the Oppo's own analog outs. However, the AVA is smoother and a little lusher, and so there again, probably not ideal for the WA22, although I did not try the AVA with the WA22 so far. But the AVA is a $2K DAC, and the Oppo is pretty killer for all it does and it's $1K price. I have not tried it's network interface yet, no. I also plan to hook up a HD full of hi-res FLACs to it at some point, which you can do, and is very cool.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Another one of these questions Skylab, but how do you think the HE 500 would pair with the WA22? I'm very interested in the combo.


----------



## Skylab

Boy I sure wish I still had the HE-500 loaner, so I could actually answer that question. Power wise should be fine, and in terms of the match of sonics, I think it would be OK there too, although it's possible that it would push the HE-500 into slightly soft land. But this is just conjecture since I did not have them at the same time, unfortunately.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah that's the key finding for me so far - plenty of power for the LCD-2 - but at least with the tubes I am using now, not an ideal sonic pairing.  I think the Trafomatic and Decware both sound better with the LCD-2 than the WA22, and they are slightly cheaper (though in the same basic price range).
> 
> OTOH, the WA22 is much better for the HD-800 than either the Trafomatic or Decware.


 
  How did you feel about the WA2 with the LCD's?


----------



## Skylab

I actually liked that combo better, in spite of the fact that the WA22 has more power for the LCD-2. But I liked the sonic match better between the WA2 and the LCD-2. 

But again I caution that these comments are only with the current set of tubes, and also that I don't listen all that loudly, so my power needs are a little lower than for some folks.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Yeah, I figured I should ask because I know you had them fairly recently. 
   
  Soft land worries me. I'm looking to go balanced with them and I was hoping the WA22 would be my answer. Might look at something else with a little more aggressive sound.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Boy I sure wish I still had the HE-500 loaner, so I could actually answer that question. Power wise should be fine, and in terms of the match of sonics, I think it would be OK there too, although it's possible that it would push the HE-500 into slightly soft land. But this is just conjecture since I did not have them at the same time, unfortunately.


----------



## Skylab

Oh, and just to put some perspective on my comments above - the LCD-2 with the Leben, Decware, or Trafomatic is a much better overall combo, for me personally, than the HD-800 + WA22. Again, just for me personally.


----------



## Silent One

L.A. Area ~
   
  Any Audio Engineering/Editor types among my Woo mates here? PM me for info. (position - L.A. area).
  (Just looking after my people..)


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How did you feel about the WA2 with the LCD's?


 

 I would think this wouldn't be an ideal match considering it is an OTL amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

brasewel said:


> I would think this wouldn't be an ideal match considering it is an OTL amp.




Damping factors with orthos are not really the same as with dynamic headphones. Kevin said it best a few months back.

OTLs and low impedance dynamic headphones can be problematic. But surprisingly the WA2 is great with my Ed. 8s (and with my now sold RS1i too). But Jack has a few tricks that he implements (like the power tube section being paralleled to give more power output). But orthos are very different beasts based on how their drivers move and are driven. 

Please feel free to PM kwkarth for a better explanation than I could give (sorry just a chemical engineer here...Kevin's the EE).


----------



## davo50

>


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I actually liked that combo better, in spite of the fact that the WA22 has more power for the LCD-2. But I liked the sonic match better between the WA2 and the LCD-2.
> 
> But again I caution that these comments are only with the current set of tubes, and also that I don't listen all that loudly, so my power needs are a little lower than for some folks.


 


  To me, the 5998 is a VERY euphonic tube in the WA22.  I think your perceptions will change some once you try the 7236.  It becomes much more neutral.  Also, possibly one of the sylvanias for 6sn7.


----------



## Nova13

I am looking for a power tube and am struggling to decide between a 5998 and a sylvania 7236.  Several posts ago it was agreed that the 5998 was a bit noisy.  Is the 7236 by Sylvania equally noisy?
   
  My WA3 (with stock tubes) has some background noise at higher volumes.  Its not even noticeable on most of the music I listen to, but some classical pieces featuring pauses are basically ruined.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, I understand why.  It's mellow, man!  *I know why Woo says it is "Surreal" in terms of "Euphonic"*.  The WA22 is lusher even than the WA2, it seems to me.





   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It means I like it better with the HD-800 than I do with the LCD-2.  It's a little colored, yes, but not in a way that sticks out of is in any way dissonant with the music.  And for the HD-800, it's actually just what the doctor ordered!  Best I have heard them.  But it's funny, if I had owned the WA22 as my only amp, I could see how I might have been one of those people who thinks the HD-800 is right on and the LCD-2 is too soft/dark.  But *since I have many, many other amps, I know that this is the WA22 that has this character*, and that it's actually balancing the HD-800's brightness, which is great for the big Senn, but doesn't work well for the LCD-2.
> 
> That is my early impression, subject to change with more experience and different tubes.  *It's already been suggested the 7236 is a better tube choice for the LCD-2*, and perhaps it may well be.





   

  Thanks for sharing your impressions so far. It makes sense that being the most euphonic of Woo's amps that tube selection with the WA22 would have a bigger impact on the sound than with any of Woo's other amps, so don't be so sure about it's character just yet! For this reason I think you will have a blast rolling tubes for the WA22 after seeing the scope of your tube selection. For tube novices like myself the experience has been a bit daunting, but very rewarding just the same. Looking forward to your comparison with the 7236.
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I actually liked that combo better, in spite of the fact that the WA22 has more power for the LCD-2. But *I liked the sonic match better between the WA2 and the LCD-2.
> 
> But again I caution that these comments are only with the current set of tubes*, and also that I don't listen all that loudly, so my power needs are a little lower than for some folks.


 
   
  I have been saying for a while now that it is very hard to find a tube combo that will optimize the sound of both the HD800 and the LCD-2 because of their seemingly diametrically opposed sound signatures. I think I have finally nailed it for the LCD-2 with my current combo, even though there is probably still room for improvement. According to that Positive Feedback WA22/HD800 review the same combo works really well with the HD800 as well (Could This Be the Ultimate Headphone System?), so I would really like to give them another try to hear the HD800 for myself with them. 
  So keep on rolling Rob, I think you may find what you need to make the LCD-2 sing out of the WA22 as well


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah that's the key finding for me so far - plenty of power for the LCD-2 - but at least with the tubes I am using now, not an ideal sonic pairing.  I think the Trafomatic and Decware both sound better with the LCD-2 than the WA22, and they are slightly cheaper (though in the same basic price range).
> 
> OTOH, the WA22 is much better for the HD-800 than either the Trafomatic or Decware.


 

 Rob, is this exclusively with the Sylvania VT-231 drivers shown in your photo, or have you tried any other drivers yet? 
   
  Actually, it just donned on me that you also own a WA6, which brings me to an important question:  how much more lush is the WA22 compared to the WA6?  Every thing I have done since getting the WA6 has been intended to mellow it out so it pairs better with my current headphones, but my fear is these efforts when applied to the WA22 might end up being too much.... especially when the K701 eventually leaves the picture.  Looking at my 6SN7 collection many of them lean to the dark side so to speak.  I sort of bet the farm on the 5998 as well, a calculated but seemingly mild risk on my part. 
   
  If the LCD-2 sounds detailed but simply dark in the treble range that would be right up my alley for the most part.  Not enough treble really kills piano but for everything else I seem to prefer it.  On the other hand if it seems to make the headphone sound soft and undetailed then that would worry me much more.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> I am looking for a power tube and am struggling to decide between a 5998 and a sylvania 7236.  Several posts ago it was agreed that the 5998 was a bit noisy.  Is the 7236 by Sylvania equally noisy?
> 
> My WA3 (with stock tubes) has some background noise at higher volumes.  Its not even noticeable on most of the music I listen to, but some classical pieces featuring pauses are basically ruined.


 

 I've never had a noise issue with the 7236 either. Come to think of it I've never had a noise issue with any of the tubes I've tried in my WA22.


----------



## kchew

I have 4 pairs of 5998s and 1 pair is slightly noisy on my WA22, the rest are dead silent. They are great tubes but I still prefer the GEC 6080 or 6AS7, not as lush as the 5998 but I like their dynamics and their lower gain gives me better volume control. I'm tempted to try the TS 7236 but I've banned myself from getting more tubes after picking up 3 pairs in 2 months...


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm almost tempted to ask how many tubes (not amps) people own in their collection.  There I did it!


----------



## Clayton SF

I've lost count. But I can post a photo of my collection. Okay, maybe not. It will only remind me of how much $ I've invested in old glowing pretty little (and big) _lightbulbs_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ah, if we don't have hobbies then what do we have?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've lost count. But I can post a photo of my collection. Okay, maybe not. It will only remind me of how much $ I've invested in old glowing pretty little (and big) _lightbulbs_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Post it!


----------



## Clayton SF

The photo is of poor quality. And I can't arrange the tubes as orderly as Skylab has his, who, by the way, inspired me to place my tubes on shelves (with apologies--mine doesn't come close to his extensive collection of NOS tubes).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The photo is of poor quality. And I can't arrange the tubes as orderly as Skylab has his, who, by the way, inspired me to place my tubes on shelves (with apologies--mine doesn't come close to his extensive collection of NOS tubes).


 

 Amazing!  You tube guys are a special breed of audiophiles.


----------



## oldwine

wow
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... are you opening a tube store???
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The photo is of poor quality. And I can't arrange the tubes as orderly as Skylab has his, who, by the way, inspired me to place my tubes on shelves (with apologies--mine doesn't come close to his extensive collection of NOS tubes).


----------



## grokit

I have maybe 1/35th of that amount and it's still too many tubes for me


----------



## Silent One

I own 8 tubes - _they wouldn't fill my left sneaker_. What would fit is the single NOS pair under the toe-cap. My next amp purchase will dictate my tube inventory...


----------



## Wedge

I have more, but this kind of shows most of my tubes, also a low quality picture.


----------



## dannie01

You guys are crazy about tubes collection.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The photo is of poor quality. And I can't arrange the tubes as orderly as Skylab has his, who, by the way, inspired me to place my tubes on shelves (with apologies--mine doesn't come close to his extensive collection of NOS tubes).


 


 Nice, Clayton.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> To me, the 5998 is a VERY euphonic tube in the WA22.  I think your perceptions will change some once you try the 7236.  It becomes much more neutral.  Also, possibly one of the sylvanias for 6sn7.


 

 I have been using exclusively the Sylvania 6SN7W driver tube (the tall bottle, black base variety).  I have always thought of 5998's as being less "tubey" than 6AS7G's.  But anyway, see below...
   


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for sharing your impressions so far. It makes sense that being the most euphonic of Woo's amps that tube selection with the WA22 would have a bigger impact on the sound than with any of Woo's other amps, so don't be so sure about it's character just yet! For this reason I think you will have a blast rolling tubes for the WA22 after seeing the scope of your tube selection. For tube novices like myself the experience has been a bit daunting, but very rewarding just the same. Looking forward to your comparison with the 7236.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Here's the thing - I have LOTS of amps that I like with the LCD-2.  I am actually thrilled that the WA22 sounds as good as it does with the HD-800.  I don't want to optimize the WA22 for the LCD-2.  The Decware, Leben, and Trafomatic already favor the LCD-2.  I'm going to keep the WA22 optimized for the HD-800.  Maybe then I will actually listen to them sometimes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Rob, is this exclusively with the Sylvania VT-231 drivers shown in your photo, or have you tried any other drivers yet?
> 
> Actually, it just donned on me that you also own a WA6, which brings me to an important question:  how much more lush is the WA22 compared to the WA6?  Every thing I have done since getting the WA6 has been intended to mellow it out so it pairs better with my current headphones, but my fear is these efforts when applied to the WA22 might end up being too much.... especially when the K701 eventually leaves the picture.  Looking at my 6SN7 collection many of them lean to the dark side so to speak.  I sort of bet the farm on the 5998 as well, a calculated but seemingly mild risk on my part.
> 
> If the LCD-2 sounds detailed but simply dark in the treble range that would be right up my alley for the most part.  Not enough treble really kills piano but for everything else I seem to prefer it.  On the other hand if it seems to make the headphone sound soft and undetailed then that would worry me much more.


 
   
  The WA22, again with my current tubes, is for sure lusher and more euphonic than the WA6.  My guess is that this would be the case regardless of tubes.  But if you want mellower than the WA6, the WA22 might be right up your alley.
   
  I cannot stress one point enough, though - if you don't plan to use a balanced source, there is NO POINT in getting the WA22.  Save your money and get the WA2.  The WA22 only makes sense if you plan to use a balanced source.
  
   


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm almost tempted to ask how many tubes (not amps) people own in their collection.  There I did it!


 



 Hmmmm...perhaps you have not been on head-fi long enough to have seen my "tube closet"...this is about 1/3 of my collection


----------



## Frank I

What rob did not tell you he bought out the Inventory from Uncle Ned at triode Electronics he cherry picked it before Ned sold the joint


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let me give you a hand on this...  It looks amazing, wonder how it sounds with LCD-2.  Any internal shots?


 

 Here is a internal shot.
  I can't say how it would sound with a LCD-2 I don't have a pair but It is the best amp I herd with the HD800s


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





frank i said:


> What rob did not tell you he bought out the Inventory from Uncle Ned at triode Electronics he cherry picked it before Ned sold the joint


 


  Ha! Yeah, if that were true that would have actually been MORE sane


----------



## shipsupt

Those are some impressive collections!  Here is my humble pile of glass...  I need to do some organizing!


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have been using exclusively the Sylvania 6SN7W driver tube (the tall bottle, black base variety).  I have always thought of 5998's as being less "tubey" than 6AS7G's.  But anyway, see below...
> 
> 
> Here's the thing - I have LOTS of amps that I like with the LCD-2.  I am actually thrilled that the WA22 sounds as good as it does with the HD-800.  I don't want to optimize the WA22 for the LCD-2.  The Decware, Leben, and Trafomatic already favor the LCD-2.  I'm going to keep the WA22 optimized for the HD-800.  Maybe then I will actually listen to them sometimes


 

 Great!  I think what some of us are trying to say though, is that since a lot of folks rightfully put a lot of weight into your opinions (myself included), that the WA22 can be tubed to enjoy with other headphones besides the HD800 or other bright cans.  Yes, it will always be a warm sounding amp but also very versatile in that it responds well to tube rolling.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Great!  I think what some of us are trying to say though, is that since a lot of folks rightfully put a lot of weight into your opinions (myself included), that the WA22 can be tubed to enjoy with other headphones besides the HD800 or other bright cans.  Yes, it will always be a warm sounding amp but also very versatile in that it responds well to tube rolling.


 

 Sure, and anyone reading my posts will see I have qualified my comments repeatedly and often with statements such as "That is my early impression, subject to change with more experience and different tubes." and "again I caution that these comments are only with the current set of tubes" (both exact quotes by me) .  Unless I were to refrain entirely from posting, it's pretty hard for me to qualify what I am saying any better...


----------



## Dudeperm

cool thx


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ha! Yeah, if that were true that would have actually been MORE sane


 


   That's the right word Rob.... Your collection is borderline insanity!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hmmmm...perhaps you have not been on head-fi long enough to have seen my "tube closet"...this is about 1/3 of my collection


 

*I think I've mentioned this before ... or at least thought about it: this photo would make an excellent 1000-piece jigsaw puzzle. 2000-piece? Nice collection, Skylab.*


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hmmmm...perhaps you have not been on head-fi long enough to have seen my "tube closet"...this is about 1/3 of my collection


 

 I have not seen your collection before!   Holy ****!    These collections remind me of wine cellars!.      You should write a book detailing the particular sound of each type of tube.


----------



## HeadSource

The WA22 can be tube rolled to sound great with the LCD2s. The combo I like the most so far is driver > RCA 6CG7/6fq7, Rectifier > EML5u4g, Power > Sylvania 7236. No impression of being too soft or dark... but instead very lively and resilient... this combo will definitely not be suitable for the Senns HD800
   
  I'm currently running in this combo Rectifer > 1950s Mullard CV378, Driver > Mazda 6CG7, Power > Sylvania 7236.... This combo (after 15 hrs run in.. not enough) is a little darker sounding and requires me to use the "Hi" setting for it to sound acceptible....Bass a little thicker and perhaps a touch too over powering
   
  My only reference point is the solid state HPA-2 outputs of my Benchmark DAC1Pre and my Senn HD650.
   
  I did Audition the HD800 with the WA22 for about 3 hrs at the shop with this combo: Rectifier > Sophia Princess 274b, Driver > GE6sn7gtb, Power > Sylvania 7236. The HD800 was too bright for me and gave me ear fatigue.
   
  Maybe I've been too use to the HD650 sound as that was what I had before deciding between the HD800 and the LCD-2.
   
  My first impression of the LCD-2 was it was too dark for me ( that was with the old stock cable)... However, on the second listening session, Audeze had provided their replacement stock cable which did open up the top end a little (they provided this free replacement around Feb-Mar 2011). Then subsequent tube rolling and running in has got me to the point of really enjoying the WA22 and LCD2 combo.
   
  I'm yet to upgrade the stock cable.... I'm considering the ALO-adio Silver/copper chain male.... That should brighted up the top end even more.


----------



## Broken Arrow

it is not the best picture , it is taken with my mobile.
   
  all powercords and oulet strip are from www. hifi-tuning.com
   
  today i bougt 3 meters of wireworld powercord. waiting for 4 pcs of oyaide.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have not seen your collection before!   Holy ****!    These collections remind me of wine cellars!.


 
  Tonight, Rob will be serving Tung Sol 5998s 1961


----------



## Skylab

ROFL!!!  That is too funny.  Nice one


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Tonight, Rob will be serving Tung Sol 5998s 1961


 

 Nice picture.


----------



## Skylab

BTW I tried the WA22 with the HE-6, just for grins.  It does a decent enough job, really.  I wouldn't formally recommend it, since I know the HE-6 like more power than the WA22 delivers, ideally, but the fact is the sound was pretty darned good, and the tonal match between them and my current tube set was also very good.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





skylab said:


> BTW I tried the WA22 with the HE-6, just for grins.  It does a decent enough job, really.  I wouldn't formally recommend it, since I know the HE-6 like more power than the WA22 delivers, ideally, but the fact is the sound was pretty darned good, and the tonal match between them and my current tube set was also very good.


 
   
  Yeah, it can be pretty decent.  Nothing like a good 6-10 watts will do though!


----------



## Icenine2

BA,
   
  Beautiful!!
   
  Every time I think I can resist the WA5LE I can't stop staring..................
  
  Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> it is not the best picture , it is taken with my mobile.
> 
> all powercords and oulet strip are from www. hifi-tuning.com
> 
> today i bougt 3 meters of wireworld powercord. waiting for 4 pcs of oyaide.


----------



## Icenine2

Sklab mentioned that the WA22 is lush sounding.  Put on Pat Metheny Group Offramp if you want lush.  The guitar is luciously lush.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Pretty much my findings with all Woo amps. They's just beautiful.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> BA,
> 
> Beautiful!!
> 
> Every time I think I can resist the WA5LE I can't stop staring..................


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Yeah, it can be pretty decent.  Nothing like a good 6-10 watts will do though!


 
   
  Completely agree.


----------



## Broken Arrow

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> BA,
> 
> Beautiful!!
> 
> Every time I think I can resist the WA5LE I can't stop staring..................


 


 thanks ,
   
  i am very happy with my setup... my kids ( 7 and 9 yo ) also want a similar setup hahaha. they are headfiers also with a decent kids setup.


----------



## shipsupt

I went easy on the number of pieces...
   
http://three.flash-gear.com/npuz/puz.php?c=v&id=3722920&k=69558294
   

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> *I think I've mentioned this before ... or at least thought about it: this photo would make an excellent 1000-piece jigsaw puzzle. 2000-piece? Nice collection, Skylab.*


----------



## Icenine2

Sorry Skylab.  Misspell
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Sklab mentioned that the WA22 is lush sounding.  Put on Pat Metheny Group Offramp if you want lush.  The guitar is luciously lush.


----------



## brasewel

Skylab how would you compare the lushness factor of the WA-22 to your Leben? I thought the Leben was a pretty lush sounding amp especially with the tubes Wedge had in his. It wasn't overly warm but much warmer than my rig.


----------



## Skylab

Again with the disclaimer that this is with the tubes I am currently using, the WA22 is notably warmer and tubier than the Leben. I'm using GE 6BQ5's and Raytheon triple-mica windmill getter 5751's in my Leben.


----------



## Wedge

I don't know of any tube combo that will make the Leben tubier sounding than the WA-22 with 5998s.  I am running Sylvania 3 Mica Black Plate 5751, but I have Raytheon Windmill Getter 5751 I can try out, don't have GE 6BQ5, though.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I've got the WA SE-6 on my mind to be the tube side of my rig for the LCD's and my forthcoming V200 to SS side the my rig.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> it is not the best picture , it is taken with my mobile.
> 
> all powercords and oulet strip are from www. hifi-tuning.com
> 
> today i bougt 3 meters of wireworld powercord. waiting for 4 pcs of oyaide.


 


  Prediction!
   
  A few years from now, your oldest child will be asked to complete a book report in school on a subject of their choosing. And will hand in "Technology: The History of The Vacuum Tube." The teacher will be at once impressed and fascinated. And request a parent-teacher meeting take place at your home. _ I can only imagine what the two 'kid systems' look like!_


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> thanks ,
> 
> i am very happy with my setup... my kids ( 7 and 9 yo ) also want a similar setup hahaha. they are headfiers also with a decent kids setup.


 


 You have a picture of a SAC bomber with a moniker Broken Arrow.  Are we on the other side of the looking glass?


----------



## Silent One

@ mikemalter
   
  Cooking times may vary ~
   
  Baby was delivered 24 hours ago at 1700 hours. Observations? One - Baby is a bit chubby (14 lbs?) Two - I discovered that I am without interconnects!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I eventually unearthed some ol' school Red & White Audio plugs from the garage but...
   
  Meanwhile, I've got it on Simmer - 8 hours 'On', 5 hours 'Off.' Let's see what we get!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ mikemalter
> 
> Cooking times may vary ~
> 
> ...


 

 Are you talking about the DAC-1?


----------



## Nova13

As a full time student (aka, I am broke) and fledgling head-fier, I have to say I am really amazed at the tube collections that have been posted over the last few pages!!!
   
  You guys are truly on a whole different level!  But you can only appreciate where you are when you can look back at where you've been - so i'll just smile and listen to my WA3 on stock tubes at this time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Once they can finally call me doctor for real (in 2 years!!) and I pull out of some student-loans, perhaps i'll contract whatever lovely disease you all seem to have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  For now - if any of you want to sell a poor chap an individual 5998, 7236, or a good pair of 6dj8 drivers (JAN sylvanias, amperex's on the cheap) for my Woo Audio 3, pm me!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've got the WA SE-6 on my mind to be the tube side of my rig for the LCD's and my forthcoming V200 to SS side the my rig.


 

 Or you could just get a hybrid...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Are you talking about the DAC-1?


 


  Yes (W4S DAC-1).


----------



## Wedge

Yeah I'm only 4 years out of college, I know your pain, its still fresh.  Although people only call me doctor for fun.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes (W4S DAC-1).


 

 You're gonna have to run music through that thing for about 200 hours...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You're gonna have to run music through that thing for about 200 hours...


 

 I won't have any expectations until hours 250-500... now at 9 hours but excited nonetheless! While waiting for the WireWorld goodies to arrive (Eclipse 6 & Electra 5*), I may order another digital interconnect for it w/bridge.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The WA22, again with my current tubes, is for sure lusher and more euphonic than the WA6.  My guess is that this would be the case regardless of tubes.  But if you want mellower than the WA6, the WA22 might be right up your alley.
> 
> I cannot stress one point enough, though - if you don't plan to use a balanced source, there is NO POINT in getting the WA22.  Save your money and get the WA2.  The WA22 only makes sense if you plan to use a balanced source.


 

 Thanks for the feedback Rob.  My current DAC does have a balanced output option so I am covered there.  I wasn't worried about the WA22 sound signature before, but I am beginning to be now.  I've recently achieved a nearly ideal tonal balance on my WA6 with several of my newer 6SN7 purchases.  In particular the chrome top Sylvanias are all very nice on this amp with the EML 274B.  Where I'm beginning to worry is that I have achieved this balance with the K701 in the picture, a notably dry and etched sounding headphone.  Putting the LCD-2 in the picture, which I have planned for some time to be my replacement for the 701's, makes me wonder if I'm going to wind up with a really dead sounding top end when I first put it all together.  I previously had no doubts that the LCD-2 WA22 combo would be for me, but having to re-adjust my tube setup to liven up the treble after spending so much money on what I have would be a disaster for me. 
   
  There are also a couple of questions I won't have answers to until I actually own a WA22, such as whether or not the 6SN7 sounds the same there as it does in the WA6.  I've wondered this quite often as I wrote impressions, hoping I wasn't misleading anybody.  The WA6 definitely places the 6SN7 at an operating point electrically that is outside the norm, but for my situation the results were just what the doctor ordered:  a significant mellowing of the top end without sacrificing any detail.  Heck the detail improved even with the reduction in treble energy. 
   
  More than anything I'm looking for a step up in transparency and inner detail, the things that make the music feel real rather than a recording.  If the WA22 can do this for me while being super mellow then that will probably work for me, and I'm thinking the Mundorf caps I'm planning to substitute in the build will add an additional layer of transparency as well which should help.  I realize an opinion can only have so much weight since it will be my own ears that make the call, but do you think the clarity and detail is going to be there despite LCD-2 and WA22 not being a good tonal match for each other?  I'm torturing myself with all this, because of what an investment it represents for me.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Gotta gotta gotta hear your impressions. I think the W4S DAC-1 will be my next purchase.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I won't have any expectations until hours 250-500... now at 9 hours but excited nonetheless! While waiting for the WireWorld goodies to arrive (Eclipse 6 & Electra 5*), I may order another digital interconnect for it w/bridge.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I won't have any expectations until hours 250-500... now at 9 hours but excited nonetheless! While waiting for the WireWorld goodies to arrive (Eclipse 6 & Electra 5*), I may order another digital interconnect for it w/bridge.


 

 So about two weeks of continuous playing?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So about two weeks of continuous playing?


 


  It would seem, Solid-State gear has a place in our world of tubes after all - _burn baby, burn...!  _Since I'm unable to cook continuously (not with my Woo anyway), I was thinking about setting up the DVD player Saturday and cook it that way. I won't get that far of a head-start though. I still have four other items to put on the stove top - new power cord, digital & analogue interconnects and usb bridge (just ordered a replacement bridge).
   
  Poor Dominique, I spent all of her Macaron money! (would've came out to see you first, anyway - our secret). If the opportunity to drop by presents itself before everything is cooked, I'll come anyway. It's more important that I come when I can, when you consider, my schedule can turn on dime... these days that's a dime I haven't got!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Gotta gotta gotta hear your impressions. I think the W4S DAC-1 will be my next purchase.


 


  Truth be told, if I was a working man I'd have gotten the DAC-2. But I am patient, and will see the DAC-2 or get spec'd to DAC-2 standards later on. Even the DAC-1 (saved a few hundred, easily) is a very nice unit. Should have impressions by Mid-June.


----------



## Anaxilus

After looking at those tube collections I'm wondering if SS wouldn't be more sane than the EC Super 7.  >.<  Though my HD800 could use the 7 tubes me thinks.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And yes the WA5 is gorgeous.


----------



## flaming_june

I think it's best to avoid tube amps if you're on a budget, but we're all happy about your purchase.
  Quote: 





nova13 said:


> As a full time student (aka, I am broke) and fledgling head-fier, I have to say I am really amazed at the tube collections that have been posted over the last few pages!!!
> 
> You guys are truly on a whole different level!  But you can only appreciate where you are when you can look back at where you've been - so i'll just smile and listen to my WA3 on stock tubes at this time.
> 
> ...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> As a full time student (aka, I am broke) and fledgling head-fier, I have to say I am really amazed at the tube collections that have been posted over the last few pages!!!
> 
> You guys are truly on a whole different level!  But you can only appreciate where you are when you can look back at where you've been - so i'll just smile and listen to my WA3 on stock tubes at this time.
> 
> ...


 

 Eric, PM sent.


----------



## Skylab

@XCalibur255 - there are a lot of WA22 owners who really like it with the LCD-2, and so I think it seems reasonable to assume that with the right set of tubes you can make that combo work well. There even seems to be some small consensus that the 7236 power tube is the right power tube for the LCD-2, and so next week I will give that a try - I'm just not in a big hurry there since I have great amps for the LCD-2 already, and I actually am kind of happy that I have found something that makes the HD800 likable. I was thinking of selling them again, since I almost never listen to them.

It's well known I think that I consider the LCD-2 to be the best sounding current production headphone there is. I much prefer the LCD-2 over the HD800, and this is still true, but the HD-800 / WA22 combo has at least given me a combo for that headphone that I feel like I can enjoy. And I alredy have lots of nice amps that make the LCD-2 sing.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> @XCalibur255 - there are a lot of WA22 owners who really like it with the LCD-2, and so I think it seems reasonable to assume that with the right set of tubes you can make that combo work well. There even seems to be some small consensus that the 7236 power tube is the right power tube for the LCD-2, and so next week I will give that a try - I'm just not in a big hurry there since I have great amps for the LCD-2 already, and I actually am kind of happy that I have found something that makes the HD800 likable. I was thinking of selling them again, since I almost never listen to them.
> 
> It's well known I think that I consider the LCD-2 to be the best sounding current production headphone there is. I much prefer the LCD-2 over the HD800, and this is still true, but the HD-800 / WA22 combo has at least given me a combo for that headphone that I feel like I can enjoy. And I alredy have lots of nice amps that make the LCD-2 sing.


 

 That's pretty much the message I got when you first posted some of your impressions. Also, that you prefer the Leben/LCD-2 combo over the WA22/HD800 combo (with the current tubes you're using).


----------



## Skylab

golfnutz said:


> That's pretty much the message I got when you first posted some of your impressions. Also, that you prefer the Leben/LCD-2 combo over the WA22/HD800 combo (with the current tubes you're using).




Yes indeed, that is the case, as of now. And while I feel tube rolling can have significant impact on the sound, I would be very surprised if any tube rolling would lead me to change THAT impression - the HD800 sound as good to me now as they ever have, but even still they are for me nowhere close to the LCD-2, when the LCD-2 are at their best.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 OK, so how good are the LCD-2's...  Just to put things in perspective here, where to you rate the WA22/HD800 compared with any of your other amps and the LCD-2's combos, 4th?


----------



## Torero

Hi Skylab,
   
  which do yu prefer for the HD800? WA22 or Leben CS300?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> OK, so how good are the LCD-2's...  Just to put things in perspective here, where to you rate the WA22/HD800 compared with any of your other amps and the LCD-2's combos, 4th?


 

 Sorry, you've already answered that question here (unless something has changed):
   
  "Oh, and just to put some perspective on my comments above - the LCD-2 with the Leben, Decware, or Trafomatic is a much better overall combo, for me personally, than the HD-800 + WA22. Again, just for me personally. ".


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It would seem, Solid-State gear has a place in our world of tubes after all - _burn baby, burn...!  _Since I'm unable to cook continuously (not with my Woo anyway), I was thinking about setting up the DVD player Saturday and cook it that way. I won't get that far of a head-start though. I still have four other items to put on the stove top - new power cord, digital & analogue interconnects and usb bridge (just ordered a replacement bridge).
> 
> Poor Dominique, I spent all of her Macaron money! (would've came out to see you first, anyway - our secret). If the opportunity to drop by presents itself before everything is cooked, I'll come anyway. It's more important that I come when I can, when you consider, my schedule can turn on dime... these days that's a dime I haven't got!!!


 

 I was thinking about your burn in issue, and am glad to hear you have something solid-state to run.  Will send PM later today.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





torero said:


> Hi Skylab,
> 
> which do yu prefer for the HD800? WA22 or Leben CS300?


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes indeed, that is the case, as of now. And while I feel tube rolling can have significant impact on the sound, I would be very surprised if any tube rolling would lead me to change THAT impression -* the HD800 sound as good to me now as they ever have*, but even still they are for me nowhere close to the LCD-2, when the LCD-2 are at their best.


 

 I think he sort of answered your question in a previous post.  Also in another post he said something like just what the HD-800 needed.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Thanks for the feedback Rob.  *My current DAC does have a balanced output option so I am covered there*.  I wasn't worried about the WA22 sound signature before, but I am beginning to be now.  I've recently achieved a nearly ideal tonal balance on my WA6 with several of my newer 6SN7 purchases.  In particular the chrome top Sylvanias are all very nice on this amp with the EML 274B.  Where I'm beginning to worry is that I have achieved this balance with the K701 in the picture, a notably dry and etched sounding headphone.  Putting the LCD-2 in the picture, which I have planned for some time to be my replacement for the 701's, makes me wonder if I'm going to wind up with a really dead sounding top end when I first put it all together.  I previously had no doubts that the LCD-2 WA22 combo would be for me, but having to re-adjust my tube setup to liven up the treble after spending so much money on what I have would be a disaster for me.
> 
> There are also a couple of questions I won't have answers to until I actually own a WA22, such as whether or not the 6SN7 sounds the same there as it does in the WA6.  I've wondered this quite often as I wrote impressions, hoping I wasn't misleading anybody.  The WA6 definitely places the 6SN7 at an operating point electrically that is outside the norm, but for my situation the results were just what the doctor ordered:  a significant mellowing of the top end without sacrificing any detail.  Heck the detail improved even with the reduction in treble energy.
> 
> More than anything I'm looking for a step up in transparency and inner detail, the things that make the music feel real rather than a recording.  If the WA22 can do this for me while being super mellow then that will probably work for me, and I'm thinking the Mundorf caps I'm planning to substitute in the build will add an additional layer of transparency as well which should help.  I realize an opinion can only have so much weight since it will be my own ears that make the call, but do you think the clarity and detail is going to be there despite LCD-2 and WA22 not being a good tonal match for each other?  I'm torturing myself with all this, because of what an investment it represents for me.


 

 Just because one has a balanced DAC, doesn't mean another input device with RCA only won't sound better then something else with XLR, for the WA22.
   
  If you compare the RCA and XLR output on the Oppo BDP-95, then yes the XLR is a better source.
   
  I'm sure there are plenty of other sources that sound better with just having RCA as an output (without having a balanced DAC in the middle).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Just because one has a balanced DAC, doesn't mean another input device with RCA only won't sound better then something else with XLR, for the WA22.
> 
> If you compare the RCA and XLR output on the Oppo BDP-95, then yes the XLR is a better source.
> 
> I'm sure there are plenty of other sources that sound better with just having RCA as an output (without having a balanced DAC in the middle).


 

 Your overall point conceptually is correct.  From an implementation point of view and the WA22 in particular, it's not about RCA vs. XLR.  IMHO, the WA22 was designed to make best use of a balanced input and while you will still have the potential for great sound using the WA22 with single ended inputs, you won't be taking advantage of its design intent.


----------



## grokit

Mike that is the WA22 designer's "opinion" as well. In that particular amp there is definitely a difference with the balanced XLR inputs sounding superior to the SE RCAs.
   
  I recognize that there are some SE sources that are superior to some balanced sources but when using the same source that offers both options, the balanced output will always sound better than SE with the WA22.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Mike that is the WA22 designer's "opinion" as well. In that particular amp there is definitely a difference with the balanced XLR inputs sounding superior to the SE RCAs.
> 
> I recognize that there are some SE sources that are superior to some balanced sources but when using the same source that offers both options, the balanced output will always sound better than SE with the WA22.


 
  I've never played my WA22 single ended.  I may try that just to hear if I can tell the difference.


----------



## grokit

Looking forward to your results, just *make sure* the cables are of comparable quality


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Mike that is the WA22 designer's "opinion" as well. In that particular amp there is definitely a difference with the balanced XLR inputs sounding superior to the SE RCAs.
> 
> I recognize that there are some SE sources that are superior to some balanced sources but when using the same source that offers both options, the balanced output will always sound better than SE with the WA22.


 


 Totally agree.
   
  I'd like to see a test where someone has a balanced DAC and a balanced CD player w/RCA as well.
   
  Use the balanced CD into the WA22, then compare CD RCA to balanced DAC to balanced WA22. I have a feeling the direct connection will sound better via XLR. Also test RCA direct to WA22, then compare CD RCA to balanced DAC to WA22 (not sure there would be much difference). Of course, one could also compare direct XLR to WA22 vs CD XLR to DAC XLR to WA22.


----------



## jamesnz

Well, thanks to this thread and others, I've gone from considering a WA3, to a WA6 which I ordered, to upgrading to a WA6-SE.
  Figure it's going to last me the next twenty years (I say that now), but good bye bank balance!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Well, thanks to this thread and others, I've gone from considering a WA3, to a WA6 which I ordered, to upgrading to a WA6-SE.
> Figure it's going to last me the next twenty years (I say that now), but _good bye bank balance!_


 

_good bye bank balance!_
  hello Woo Bliss
   
  and welcome to the club!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Looking forward to your results, just *make sure* the cables are of comparable quality


 

 Yeah, I have a Pair of Granite Audio balanced and single ended cables.  Hmmm, I wonder if I used wire hangers for single ended.


----------



## Silent One

Inside Out ~
   
  At the moment, savoring a cup of green tea... pondering isolation tweaks & dinner.
   
  Out: EMU-0404 USB DAC    In: W4S DAC-1
   
  Note: During the past six months, the weight of the Woo sitting on the Maple block has caused the middle of the shelf to bow. The hefty shoe box to the right isn't going to help any!  (stock tubes rolled in for burn process only)


----------



## snapple10

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Inside Out ~
> 
> At the moment, savoring a cup of green tea... pondering isolation tweaks & dinner.
> 
> ...


 


 Nice pic. What is that box to the right?
  I have this humming coming from my pc( finally found the source of noise after months) when plugged in to the wall outlet, looking for a solution. Wonder if a  UPS power conditioner is what I need


----------



## vinyllp33

Yes, the switch mode power supplies found in computers can inject a bunch of nasty noise back into the power line.

I don't think a UPS would make a difference unless you could find one that could run the computer off of battery power continuously while listening. What is called for here would be an isolation transformer.

Another much less costly approach is to find a (hopefully) nearby outlet on a completely different circuit from the rest of your system, if not run an extension cord if necessay and see if the noise goes away.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Nice pic. What is that box to the right?
> I have this humming coming from my pc( finally found the source of noise after months) when plugged in to the wall outlet, looking for a solution. Wonder if a  UPS power conditioner is what I need


 

 That box is the Wyred4Sound DAC-1. It's really hard to say what you need to eliminate or suppress the hum you mentioned. UPS, Surge protector, Power Re-generator? Many more solutions exist, both paid and free. What I would do first is try to hunt down an isolate the hum. Then determine how to best solve the problem.
   
  In past listening rooms, I had to deal with things sometimes as simple as the coax for cable tv not being properly grounded. And it remaining elusive because it was grounded, I had ruled it out. And it wasn't even near my audio gear.
   
  Lived with the dreaded hum for some time. Then one day, while remodeling the room... discovered the culprit coax quite by accident. It was only after I moved all of the furniture back in and plug in every component again one by one did the source of the hum reveal itself. Good luck troubleshooting.
   
  Post script: The Tripp-Lite Isolation Transformer could work for you. Also, make sure you keep your digital devices & analogue devices separated when plugged in.


----------



## snapple10

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Yes, the switch mode power supplies found in computers can inject a bunch of nasty noise back into the power line.
> 
> I don't think a UPS would make a difference unless you could find one that could run the computer off of battery power continuously while listening. What is called for here would be an isolation transformer.
> 
> Another much less costly approach is to find a (hopefully) nearby outlet on a completely different circuit from the rest of your system, if not run an extension cord if necessay and see if the noise goes away.


 

 Thanks. I tried a different outlet, the only time the noise goes away is if I unplugged the pc and run on battery. I will look into isolation transformer, any recommendations on which one to try?
  I have another outlet but it is too far from my set up, I will need two long extension cords. Will try the transformer
  Thanks for the info


----------



## shipsupt

jamesnz said:


> Well, thanks to this thread and others, I've gone from considering a WA3, to a WA6 which I ordered, to upgrading to a WA6-SE.
> Figure it's going to last me the next twenty years (I say that now), but good bye bank balance!




Congratulations! IMHO the 6SE is a versatile amp that can satisfy you for a long time to come.

Welcome to Woo-ville.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Well, thanks to this thread and others, I've gone from considering a WA3, to a WA6 which I ordered, to upgrading to a WA6-SE.
> Figure it's going to last me the next twenty years (I say that now), but good bye bank balance!


 


  I've got 2 amps on my mind for the tube side of my LCD rig.  The WOO WA2 or the WOO WA 6E.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Thanks. I tried a different outlet, the only time the noise goes away is if I unplugged the pc and run on battery. I will look into isolation transformer, any recommendations on which one to try?
> I have another outlet but it is too far from my set up, I will need two long extension cords. Will try the transformer
> Thanks for the info


 


  IS250 Tripp-Lite Transformer...


----------



## emremusic

I know exatly how you feel. I was in your shoes 4 months ago. Once you set up the woo on your desk, and begin listening, you'll feel a lot better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Well, thanks to this thread and others, I've gone from considering a WA3, to a WA6 which I ordered, to upgrading to a WA6-SE.
> Figure it's going to last me the next twenty years (I say that now), but good bye bank balance!


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just got a pair of Marconi 6as7g's for my Woo 3. Just opened the box about an hour ago when I got home from work. Cool tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> Just got a pair of Marconi 6as7g's for my Woo 3. Just opened the box about an hour ago when I got home from work. Cool tubes.


 


  I suppose the pix will come later Sunday...
   
  Long-time no pop-up BIG POPPA! Good to see your name in the thread again. Last saw you online this past winter - was researching your posts for audio grade fuses. Ultimately stuck a Furutech fuse in the back of my Woo. Your contributions really helped me sort all that out. So, what do I think about the $40 tweak? _We ain't taking it out! Well, unless it's blown... we like it... a lot!  _


----------



## BIG POPPA

Thanks for the props SilentOne. Have been a little busy Cheffin' it up.Got the new Supreme fuse and I do need to post about that. Still up enjoying the Marconi.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> Thanks for the props SilentOne. Have been a little busy Cheffin' it up.Got the new Supreme fuse and I do need to post about that. Still up enjoying the Marconi.


 


  You mean you got your audiophile hands on _The Supreme fuse_ (HiFi-Tuning from Berlin,Germany)? BIG POPPA, call your friends up!!! But, post here first... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  A fellow head-fier pointed me to the CableCo early April, but I had already went for the Furutech. Based on your impressions, maybe a late summer purchase.
   
  Have yourself a brilliant Sunday!


----------



## SpudHarris

Good day Woomates, been off this thread for a while as I've been sorting out my Portable Rig of late. Now I'm happy with that I've started getting back into my WA6 into my Beyer T1's and oh what a lovely combination with the EML and Bad Boys, just bliss....
   
  I have been given the green light to order the WA22 as we are moving house and I finally have a room of my own with space enough for it. My question for all the WA22 users is, what power tubes should I be getting to compliment what I have. Phones are T1's and K702's predominantly and favourite tubes are EML 5U4G with either Bad Boys or TSBGRP's. Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## dannie01

Just want to post pics took minutes ago, I still have to learn more on how to take good picture.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just want to post pics took minutes ago, I still have to learn more on how to take good picture.


 


  Glowing tubes... what's not to love?! _The lure of which, has been shown to lead to the premature... and untimely death... of a man's wallet._


----------



## jeust0999

It doesn't let me save the images!
   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great amp!


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I know exatly how you feel. I was in your shoes 4 months ago. Once you set up the woo on your desk, and begin listening, you'll feel a lot better


 
  Here's hoping! now I'm beginning to question the choice of silver, I like it but all my other components are black...
   
  Thanks for the welcomes. I've been reading for a long time, the information and knowledge on this site is boggling.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Inside Out ~
> 
> At the moment, savoring a cup of green tea... pondering isolation tweaks & dinner.
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice, even your maple board is bowing in deference to the Woo.  Please tell me where you got those headphone adapters from.  I am looking for something exactly along those lines.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just want to post pics took minutes ago, I still have to learn more on how to take good picture.


 


 Dannie, these ARE good pictures.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Very nice, even your maple board is bowing in deference to the Woo.  Please tell me where you got those headphone adapters from.  I am looking for something exactly along those lines.


 

 Thanks. Those are my WireWorld XLR matching adapters; when I ordered up my D7000's 'balanced' from Aphrodite Cu29, I got everything at once. One feature I find pleasing is the cable's routing. No Y-connector, a separate cable runs from cup down to the XLR per channel.
   
  Oh, and for those of us into aesthetics, those wooden blocks (3/4" x 12") sitting underneath the DAC are temporary. I have a half dozen or so of these rails as I call 'em. I use them to try out different isolation materials and methods - like a ground lift underneath a car so I could easily change in and out different wheel combinations.
   
  Last night I ordered another set of ViaBlue TRI Absorbers like those underneath the Mac mini music server. Due to weight concerns, I may consider relegating the butcher's block to the kitchen - a place its never known, a place its never been. Spoiled by its days sitting comfortably inside the listening room...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Glowing tubes... what's not to love?! _The lure of which, has been shown to lead to the premature... and untimely death... of a man's wallet._


 

 We are all here to help each other on how to clean up the wallets. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





jeust0999 said:


> It doesn't let me save the images!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks, jeust.


  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Dannie, these ARE good pictures.


 

 Thanks you very much, Mike.


----------



## tupac0306

What will happen if I plug my low impedance headphone into the "HIGH" jack?


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> What will happen if I plug my low impedance headphone into the "HIGH" jack?


 

 It will sound much louder at a lower volume which inturn means lesser flexibility with fine-volume control.


----------



## Icenine2

Check out this Triode Production amp.  Anyone heard of these from Japan?  Really nice looking.  If you check out the site his mono blocks look like Woo 5's.  http://www.triode.co.jp/english/08.html


----------



## tupac0306

Just tried out my WA 6 SE...Wow!! I love it.. They even sound good out of the box..Yeah it improves a lot through a few hours.....God never know my edition 8 has such a deep and punchy bass!!.. I am obviously the one who is convinced that amp does makes a difference!!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> Just tried out my WA 6 SE...Wow!! I love it.. They even sound good out of the box..Yeah it improves a lot through a few hours.....God never know my edition 8 has such a deep and punchy bass!!.. I am obviously the one who is convinced that amp does makes a difference!!


 
   
  Find out more tubes rolling hints within this thread and you'll love more your WA6SE. I used to owned this babe and have had variety of tubes to roll with it and most of them are inexpensive. Congrats and enjoy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Hope you enjoy to drown into the Woo's ocean like us.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





tupac0306 said:


> Just tried out my WA 6 SE...Wow!! I love it.. They even sound good out of the box..Yeah it improves a lot through a few hours.....God never know my edition 8 has such a deep and punchy bass!!.. I am obviously the one who is convinced that amp does makes a difference!!


 

 Congrats!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_A dynamic lil' box, isn't it?!  _At 11 months & 1,858 hours, my WA 6 Special Edition continues to morph, settle and refine...


----------



## Broken Arrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 as i believe in some degree of burn-in i find it hard to believe that after 1800+ hours...well you get the point.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> as i believe in some degree of burn-in i find it hard to believe that after 1800+ hours...well you get the point.


 

 I think perhaps the term burn in is used too loosely in this specific case.  To some extent the electrical components in an amplifier continue to change slightly throughout their usable lifespan, especially capacitors, so it stands to reason that when the design is relatively pure and transparent it would be possible to perceive these changes over the years.  I can tell you that, to my ears, my WA6 is still changing sonically as well and it probably has somewhere near a thousand hours on it now.  It seems as though the top end continues to settle as time passes by.
   
  Could it all be psychological?  Maybe.  But that doesn't change the fact that we are perceiving it and it affects how we listen, so it still matters.


----------



## Icenine2

Man am I stoopit!!!  I'm listening to The Beatles Sgt Pepper.  I'm working while listening and thinking............boy this sounds a little flat...........I go to switch tracks after Lucy and I'd pulled up the Mono version by mistake.  Not the 24 bit stereo.
   
  BTW-I watched Steve McQueen's LeMans yesterday.  Those Porsche 917's were screaming 12 cylinder audio nirvana!!  Anyone have any recordings of those?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Anyone have any recordings of those?


 
   




   
  More here: http://dedeporsche.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/videos-porsche-sounds-by-dieter-landenberger/


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Man am I stoopit!!!  I'm listening to The Beatles Sgt Pepper.  I'm working while listening and thinking............boy this sounds a little flat...........I go to switch tracks after Lucy and I'd pulled up the Mono version by mistake.  Not the 24 bit stereo.
> 
> BTW-I watched Steve McQueen's LeMans yesterday.  Those Porsche 917's were screaming 12 cylinder audio nirvana!!  Anyone have any recordings of those?


 


_High revving 12's into a perfectly pitched exhaust? That IS music!!! _Icenine2, when you pick up that score let me know. Hopefully, we can get a 24-bit resolution file...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> as i believe in some degree of burn-in i find it hard to believe that after 1800+ hours...well you get the point.


 


   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think perhaps the term burn in is used too loosely in this specific case.  To some extent the electrical components in an amplifier continue to change slightly throughout their usable lifespan, especially capacitors, so it stands to reason that when the design is relatively pure and transparent it would be possible to perceive these changes over the years.  I can tell you that, to my ears, my WA6 is still changing sonically as well and it probably has somewhere near a thousand hours on it now.  It seems as though the top end continues to settle as time passes by.
> 
> Could it all be psychological?  Maybe.  But that doesn't change the fact that we are perceiving it and it affects how we listen, so it still matters.


 

 Broken Arrow, Xcalibur255 _hit the nail on the head... Olympic style. _Over the years, as a customer and as a former member of the trade, I've known several cats who shared the same testimony about their vacuum tube amplifiers. Especially the McIntosh group. If you've ever wondered why the skilled, the moneyed and speculator all chase after prized & seasoned goods, there's a reason.
   
  Same thing about seasoning could also be said about a good pot/pan or musical instrument. SO, if you ever sell your WA5LE, I'd rather come across the '92' and buy it than order one new from Jack.


----------



## sillysally

I did a little experiment using a "Vintage" (speaker amp) Amp for my HE6 headphones and comparing that to my WA5LE using my full system for both. You may want to read this post of mine and if interested read my post's in this thread for the next few days.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/1335#post_7506892
   
  Bottom line here is first the WA5LE simply blows away the "Vintage" amp I was using, but more importantly the links in my post that explains about "Binaural" and why this type of signal is the best way to go for headphone. Also using a headphone Amp like a Woo over a non headphone amp (speaker amp).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sadly, that was a risk I sort of had to take - no room for a WA2 and a WA22, and when I listed the WA2, it sold in a few hours. So that was that.
> 
> The WA22 is a bit lush with the LCD-2, it seems to me, even with the 5998 power tubes, and the Sylvania 6SN7W as drivers. Not overly so, though.
> 
> ...


 

 I've always said a balanced source with the WA22 is more important than having a balanced headphone cable.  Both make a difference, but the source made a much bigger difference to my ears.


----------



## bergnerm

Man, that is a serious listening schedule! 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Broken Arrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Broken Arrow, Xcalibur255 _hit the nail on the head... Olympic style. _Over the years, as a customer and as a former member of the trade, I've known several cats who shared the same testimony about their vacuum tube amplifiers. Especially the McIntosh group. If you've ever wondered why the skilled, the moneyed and speculator all chase after prized & seasoned goods, there's a reason.
> 
> Same thing about seasoning could also be said about a good pot/pan or musical instrument. SO, if you ever sell your WA5LE, I'd rather come across the '92' and buy it than order one new from Jack.


 


 so then i can make money when my amp is in a 100 % good shape AND has 4000 hours of play time. i think i sell it then for 4700,00 US. But WHY are the second hand amps cheaper then ?? they should go up in price......... but i leave at that. I know i can't win this one from a believer.
   
  oh and that the "vintage" amps are so much sought is that there are increasingly fewer of them.  Just like a ferrari the new ones are relatively cheap compared to the one that is the only one left. NOT because it is better performing , no because the owner can say   LOOK i've got the only one and it is the best. hahaha.
   
  oh and for anyone that is interested , i've got some "vintage" electric installation wire for sale. just ripped out of my wall , completely settled and burned in. 120,00 US per feet. 
   
  sorry just joking. LOL


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





broken arrow said:


> so then i can make money when my amp is in a 100 % good shape AND has 4000 hours of play time. i think i sell it then for 4700,00 US. But WHY are the second hand amps cheaper then ?? they should go up in price......... but i leave at that. I know i can't win this one from a believer.
> 
> oh and that the "vintage" amps are so much sought is that there are increasingly fewer of them.  Just like a ferrari the new ones are relatively cheap compared to the one that is the only one left. NOT because it is better performing , no because the owner can say   LOOK i've got the only one and it is the best. hahaha.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm with you - Woo mates just having an exchange cafe side, virtually speaking. This thread is one of the more respectful audio destinations on the Net. To answer your first question, you never know what demand for that model might be when it gets da boot. With Jack's product line evolving, you may have enthusiasts scrambling to buy up pre-owned WA5LE's. 4,000 hours? Ain't really that much. _You already sound like a speculator.  _





  (Black Gates are using nearly a 1/4 of that total, by the way... to do whatever it is they do)
   
  To expand on my point earlier about 'seasoning,' do not assume that these vintage amps I spoke of were all commercially produced - several people I've known made their own as hobbyists. Then there are those who bought commercially and then modded them like mad (a nod to the original poster's WA22). Time really can impart a _sweetness_, or _magic_ if you would. I agree, there's some out there (your Ferrari owner) looking to be exclusive. Other's looking to make money...
   
  And then there are those that I mentioned that understand the value of machines, tools, instruments and so on that have been 'Sweetened.' I really don't need to pull out the wood-making, piano & violin card on you. I can just as easily keep it in the kitchen - I've a few pots, pans, skillets and roasters handed down to me from 2-3 generations.
   
  No need to experiment or to take your tube money... I'll spare you. Much like a new violin off the line that won't sing the same way an identical model would several years older. Neither can my recently purchased cookware out perform my vintage stuff. Also, I'm guessing if you owned/ran a music studio, you'd ask musicians to turn off their gear overnight or when away for lunch, dinner while 'booked.' Conserving energy is noble. I wonder what logic the musicians and engineers would use to counter?
   
  Have a great day in The Bay!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Man, that is a serious listening schedule!


 

 I find it to be conservative - a 5.5 hour a day avg? My listening sessions are generally 1-3 hours about three times a week. The remaining time is split between burn-in and being interrupted (I'm On Call). When that happens, rather than 'cycle' my Woo I'll just let it run up to 8 hours with the hope of jumping back in at any time. Also, I only have one amp. I think I'd love to have a few different amps and a few different cans to match my mood.
   
  What kind of hours do you have on your Woo and your length of ownership?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I find it to be conservative - a 5.5 hour a day avg? My listening sessions are generally 1-3 hours about three times a week. The remaining time is split between burn-in and being interrupted (I'm On Call). When that happens, rather than 'cycle' my Woo I'll just let it run up to 8 hours with the hope of jumping back in at any time. Also, I only have one amp. I think I'd love to have a few different amps and a few different cans to match my mood.
> 
> What kind of hours do you have on your Woo and your length of ownership?


 

 I'm an 8 hour a day man at least.  I turn it on when I get into the office and it is going all day.  Then at night I'll listen too so sometimes it's on for up to 12 hours.  If I have to leave the office for an extended period of time (one hour or more, I'll turn it off).  Also, I never turn off my DAC, I always have my iPod on random sending a signal.


----------



## Icenine2

G,
   
  Thanks!  Really cool!
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> More here: http://dedeporsche.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/videos-porsche-sounds-by-dieter-landenberger/


----------



## Sesam

I will be receiving a WA22 in a few weeks, and I'm now looking for a "cheap" (preferably below $500) but decent balanced DAC for it. I would like a DAC as neutral as possible, as I reckon I will be rolling tubes to color the sound to my taste. 
   
  Anyway the ones I have been looking at are Cambridge Audio DacMagic and Matrix mini-i (they cost the same here). I'm leaning towards the DacMagic because according to some reviews the DacMagic is more detailed and neutral, the Matrix mini-i is more musical (but I guess that could be a bad thing with tubes). Those who have tried these DACs with the WA22, do you think this is an accurate statement? And would the DacMagic be a good choise, or is there something better suitable for the WA22 in the price range?


----------



## vinyllp33

A wonderful day for my WA5, we all know and love the EML's, I've got a spare pair too just in case.
   
  But unlike WA22 users I need two, so replacement time is stressful in that they keep changing the design and will my new one match, (usually not).
   
  So I have set out to find the ultimate rectifier, I have tried the NOS Tung-Sol's, Mullard GZ37, etc. but nothing has come close (at least in my set up) to the sound of EML 5U4G.
   
  At one time, courtesy of a good friend and SET fiend, I tried a pair of the fabled but crazy expensive Western Electric 274B; not a great match, very soft and muted and way too euphonic compared to the EML, at least when used in the WA5.
   
  Then I found this unique animal: The Western Electric 422A, their version of the 5U4G. 
   
  Now looking at the WE421A, which we all know is a 5998 and was only made by Tung-Sol, the plate structure of the 422A looks identical so maybe they sourced that part. But I have never seen another rectifier quite like this from any of the old line manufacturers; So I have no reason to doubt that these were produced by Western Electric, if Tung Sol did make them they do not have a comparable tube as they do with the 5998.
   
  Still burning in but they are sounding quite good, once I get some more hours on them I will do a direct comparison. 
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Skylab

Now THAT is a unique and fascinating tube! Congrats. A quick check of tubes asylum does seem to confirm it is close to a 5U4. A very different plate structure for a rectifier. And I've never seen a Tung-Sol equivalent. But nice find!


----------



## Golfnutz

Interesting, I was just looking at those over at Tubeworld on the weekend and wondered how one would sound with the WA22. I even checked the Woo Audio compatibility chart, but didn't notice it on the chart. I did a search on this thread, but didn't see anything here either. Please keep us posted, Thanks.


----------



## vinyllp33

I checked with Jack and he said that even though he has not used them they are 100% compatible, at least with the WA5, so I would see no reason that one could not use one in the WA22. 
   
  Unlike the WE 274B which is not a direct 5U4G sub but often compatible, the 422A is virtually identical to a 5U4G. 
   
  Don't get me wrong, the EML's have ruled the roost but it was actually Skylab (Thanks!) that inspired me to look long and hard at some other NOS offerings. 
   
  I just come from the school that a rectifier tube's life should be measured in years, not in months. However with that being said I have actually had very good luck with the EML's, if I didn't need two at a time and/or they could finally standardize the design I would have been perfectly content. 
   
  Now I just wonder what tubes Woo Audio's new flagship amp will use....


----------



## dmac03

Very nice snag on those rectifiers. I can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I will be receiving a WA22 in a few weeks, and I'm now looking for a "cheap" (preferably below $500) but decent balanced DAC for it. I would like a DAC as neutral as possible, as I reckon I will be rolling tubes to color the sound to my taste.
> 
> Anyway the ones I have been looking at are Cambridge Audio DacMagic and Matrix mini-i (they cost the same here). I'm leaning towards the DacMagic because according to some reviews the DacMagic is more detailed and neutral, the Matrix mini-i is more musical (but I guess that could be a bad thing with tubes). Those who have tried these DACs with the WA22, do you think this is an accurate statement? And would the DacMagic be a good choise, or is there something better suitable for the WA22 in the price range?


 

 Congrats on a fine selection! In addition to your criteria of a neutral DAC, have you considered if you want a DAC that Upsamples everything; gives you Upsampling options; Or a NOS DAC (Non-over sampling)? There are trade-offs between the three designs but no clear winners because it depends on the particular model and how well it was designed by the maker.
   
  Any head-fiers you could go to for a listen nearby? Or store? Other WA22 owners here can help you get into the ballpark. But listening will help you find your Seat by Row & Section Number.
   
  Best of luck!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I will be receiving a WA22 in a few weeks, and I'm now looking for a "cheap" (preferably below $500) but decent balanced DAC for it. I would like a DAC as neutral as possible, as I reckon I will be rolling tubes to color the sound to my taste.
> 
> Anyway the ones I have been looking at are Cambridge Audio DacMagic and Matrix mini-i (they cost the same here). I'm leaning towards the DacMagic because according to some reviews the DacMagic is more detailed and neutral, the Matrix mini-i is more musical (but I guess that could be a bad thing with tubes). Those who have tried these DACs with the WA22, do you think this is an accurate statement? And would the DacMagic be a good choise, or is there something better suitable for the WA22 in the price range?


 

 I have a Mini-i feeding a balanced signal into my WA22, and I think they are excellent match. It's a little soft on the USB implementation, so I would recommend a usb/spdif converter to get you to a high bit rate if you are using a computer for a source. But I've been using it for a quite a while now and have no complaints, it's a very versatile, convenient and great sounding unit. It's has two DAC chips is a dual mono configuration so it's a truly balanced unit and if you read up on it the AD1955 conversion chips are featured in some pretty high-end DACs. It might not be as uber-detailed as some units out there but I've never felt it was lacking in that department either. I use a Firestone Bravo for spdif conversion but the Mini-i is capable of 192kHz so there are other options like the HiFace that will get you there if the highest bit rate is important to you; for me it's not and I liked the fact that the Bravo has the matched Supplier dedicated PSU available to stabilize the jitter clock. I keep thinking I will upgrade to a more expensive unit but I never do because I am very satisfied with the Bravo > Matrix so it's never been a priority.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm an 8 hour a day man at least.  I turn it on when I get into the office and it is going all day.  Then at night I'll listen too so sometimes it's on for up to 12 hours.  If I have to leave the office for an extended period of time (one hour or more, I'll turn it off).  Also, I never turn off my DAC, I always have my iPod on random sending a signal.


 

 Your home office sounds like a studio.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have a Mini-i feeding a balanced signal into my WA22, and I think they are excellent match. It's a little soft on the USB implementation, so I would recommend a usb/spdif converter to get you to a high bit rate if you are using a computer for a source. But I've been using it for a quite a while now and have no complaints, it's a very versatile, convenient and great sounding unit. It's has two DAC chips is a dual mono configuration so it's a truly balanced unit and if you read up on it the chips are featured on some pretty high-end DACs. It might not be as uber-detailed as some units out there but I've never felt it was lacking in that department either. I use a Firestone Bravo for spdif conversion but the Mini-i is capable of 192kHz so there are other options like the HiFace that will get you there if the highest bit rate is important to you; for me it's not and I liked the fact that the Bravo has the matched Supplier dedicated PSU available to stabilize the jitter clock. I keep thinking I will upgrade to a more expensive unit but I never do because I am very satisfied with the Matrix so it's never been a priority.


 

 I remember your excitement a few months back when you picked up the PSU, just on the heels of my looking at the Matrix. Curiously, does the Matrix and Bravo share the same DC voltage rating (Input/Output) or is it close enough to work?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I checked with Jack and he said that even though he has not used them they are 100% compatible, at least with the WA5, so I would see no reason that one could not use one in the WA22.
> 
> Unlike the WE 274B which is not a direct 5U4G sub but often compatible, the 422A is virtually identical to a 5U4G.
> 
> ...


 

 Wednesday night preview ~
   
  What could NOLA possibly offer you that would prevent us from getting a sneak preview Wednesday night?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I remember your excitement a few months back when you picked up the PSU, just on the heels of my looking at the Matrix. Curiously, does the Matrix and Bravo share the same DC voltage rating (Input/Output) or is it close enough to work?


 
   
  I'm not sure what you mean, the Bravo has a coax digital output so I just make sure I am using an appropriate 75-ohm certified coax/bnc cable to connect it to the Mini-i. The Supplier PSU is 24v DC dedicated just for the Bravo, while the Mini-i has a built-in power supply so it just needs a standard grounded 115v ac cord.
   
  I think a "galvanically isolated" PSU like the Supplier is critical for the Bravo word clock's jitter management, giving much the same benefit as the battery mod for the HiFace but without the hassle.
   
  Currently listening to Remnin Park, doing 64-bit upsampling from 44.1kHz ALAC redbook files to 96kHz with PureMusic through USB into the Bravo, then on to the Matrix's coaxial input and diggin' it out of the WA22 > LCD-2.


----------



## vinyllp33

Actually listening to some Brian Eno which is very textural and layered music, only with the EML thus far have I been able to really hear deep within.

Still way too early to pass judgement as these are true NOS but I will say there is no apparent loss of openness compared to the EML and they do not sound warmer but there is definitely a bit more body and weight.

Have used them exclusively with the HE-6 which gets the most head-time these days but I will eventually break out some other phones.


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I will be receiving a WA22 in a few weeks, and I'm now looking for a "cheap" (preferably below $500) but decent balanced DAC for it. I would like a DAC as neutral as possible, as I reckon I will be rolling tubes to color the sound to my taste.
> 
> Anyway the ones I have been looking at are Cambridge Audio DacMagic and Matrix mini-i (they cost the same here). I'm leaning towards the DacMagic because according to some reviews the DacMagic is more detailed and neutral, the Matrix mini-i is more musical (but I guess that could be a bad thing with tubes). Those who have tried these DACs with the WA22, do you think this is an accurate statement? And would the DacMagic be a good choise, or is there something better suitable for the WA22 in the price range?


 
   
  Jack suggested the DACMagic to me when I was looking at the WA6. I haven't looked back since when bought it a year ago. I think it sounds amazing. However, ignorance may be bliss, I haven't heard any others.


----------



## SpudHarris

x2
   
  The DacMagic is a very good DAC for the money, and yes it is detailed and nuetral to my ears. I too use it with the WA6 at present but will be getting the WA22 soon and at present have no intentions of looking for another DAC yet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm not sure what you mean, the Bravo has a coax digital output so I just make sure I am using an appropriate 75-ohm certified coax/bnc cable to connect it to the Mini-i. The Supplier PSU is 24v DC dedicated just for the Bravo, while the Mini-i has a built-in power supply so it just needs a standard grounded 115v ac cord.
> 
> I think a "galvanically isolated" PSU like the Supplier is critical for the Bravo word clock's jitter management, giving much the same benefit as the battery mod for the HiFace but without the hassle.
> 
> Currently listening to Remnin Park, doing 64-bit upsampling from 44.1kHz ALAC redbook files to 96kHz with PureMusic through USB into the Bravo, then on to the Matrix's coaxial input and diggin' it out of the WA22 > LCD-2.


 


  My confusion. Because I'm not familiar with Bravo, when I read you post a few months back I thought that the Bravo _was_ the dedicated PSU. And with the Mini-i on my short list at the time (credit to your testimony), I kept wondering how it could be compatible. Had I not changed DAC courses, I would've PM'd you for more info. Thanks for gettin' me right.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Actually listening to some Brian Eno which is very textural and layered music, only with the EML thus far have I been able to really hear deep within.
> 
> Still way too early to pass judgement as these are true NOS but I will say there is no apparent loss of openness compared to the EML and they do not sound warmer but there is definitely a bit more body and weight.
> 
> Have used them exclusively with the HE-6 which gets the most head-time these days but I will eventually break out some other phones.


 


  Your WE / EML _shootout... can't wait! _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> x2
> 
> The DacMagic is a very good DAC for the money, and yes it is detailed and nuetral to my ears. I too use it with the WA6 at present but will be getting the WA22 soon and at present have no intentions of looking for another DAC yet.


 

 FYI - You ever check out the modded version of DacMagic over at the Mapleshade Store?


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I will be receiving a WA22 in a few weeks, and I'm now looking for a "cheap" (preferably below $500) but decent balanced DAC for it. I would like a DAC as neutral as possible, as I reckon I will be rolling tubes to color the sound to my taste.
> 
> Anyway the ones I have been looking at are Cambridge Audio DacMagic and Matrix mini-i (they cost the same here). I'm leaning towards the DacMagic because according to some reviews the DacMagic is more detailed and neutral, the Matrix mini-i is more musical (but I guess that could be a bad thing with tubes). Those who have tried these DACs with the WA22, do you think this is an accurate statement? And would the DacMagic be a good choise, or is there something better suitable for the WA22 in the price range?


 


 For the money, $429.00, I can't think of another DAC more versatile than the DacMagic. It's what I use with my WA22.


----------



## grokit

The DacMagic forces upsampling, meaning you can't play 44.1kHz file bit-perfect at least that's the way I understand it. Can you turn the upsampling off? Not that it's a bad thing to upsample but many prefer to have the bit-perfect option. I have noticed impressions on it are more unanimous here than in other threads so it must play very well with tube amps. They seem very similar in features to me, the Matrix is a little less expensive and comes with an optional remote control, and it has an LCD text display while the Cambridge has LED indicators, and they are both limited to 16/48 USB but will take up to 24/192 with other input methods. But the main difference is the WM8740 vs. the AD1955 DAC chips. And Cambridge has a much nicer website :•)


----------



## fatcat28037

According to the owners manual the DacMagic Audio output upsampling is fixed 24bit 192kHz.There is also a 'raw' S/P DIF co-axial and TOSLINK optical digital outputs.


----------



## mikemalter

Since we are talking about upsampling DAC's at the moment, can someone please explain the benefits of upsampling to me. 
   
  My limited understand is that upsampling should sound worse and be somewhat artificial in that data is created or derived not truly sampled.
   
  Thoughts?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## grokit

My thought is there are a lot of different kinds of upsampling. The bit-perfect folks like to go with 44.1 to 88.2 etc., keeping to a straight multiple. Others are okay with going from say 44.1 to 96, or 192. Then there is the upsampling in the hardware, like on the DacMagic, as opposed to upsampling in the playback software, like with PureMusic. I think the biggest problem is unnecessary upsampling, like if it's done more than once in the signal path. When it's done right there is increased resolution that can result in a more expansive sound. One thing that's for sure is there's a lot I still have to learn about all of this.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My thought is there are a lot of different kinds of upsampling. The bit-perfect folks like to go with 44.1 to 88.2 etc., keeping to a straight multiple. Others are okay with going from say 44.1 to 96, or 192. Then there is the upsampling in the hardware, like on the DacMagic, as opposed to upsampling in the playback software, like with PureMusic. I think the biggest problem is unnecessary upsampling, like if it's done more than once in the signal path. When it's done right there is increased resolution that can result in a more expansive sound. One thing that's for sure is there's a lot I still have to learn about all of this.


 
  I've been trying to figure it all out.  I don't think anyone knows.  Many explanations are put forth but in the end it all seems to run in endless circles.


----------



## dmac03

Disclaimer: I know pretty much nothing about this. I am just throwing in my 2 cents to get the ball rolling for the sake of discussion.
   
  I think one benefits to upsampling is to counter the effects of jitter - especially with poor sources.


----------



## sphinxvc

Anyone know how much power output the WA6 has?  Wondering how well it would fare with the HE-500s.  
   
  When I had the K701 with the WA6 I thought the combo was a bit strained, wondering if the HE-500s will do better.


----------



## flaming_june

I believe the comparison pdf in the woo sponsor page has that info.
   
  I also had the dac magic but it wasn't a great dac for me.  Most say it's neutral but it sounded coloured in my ears.  However it's definitely a great starter dac.  In the end that upsampling is saying it'll make low sampling files sound as close as it supposed to sound like as possible, which is whatever the original rate was.


----------



## mikemalter

New Woo news at http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/556674/start-making-your-plans-for-2011-canjam-rmaf-rocky-mountain-audio-fest/30


----------



## dmac03

Despite having several different sets of nice driver and power tubes for my wa22, I have yet to upgrade the rectifier from the stock RCA 5V4 provided by Jack.
   
  About 6 months ago I was a click away from purchasing the EML but my financial conscious (aka wife) reminded me that we are building a new home and could use that money for "more important" things like paint and blinds and the list goes on (according to her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  Now, back in the present, I can once again tube roll without a guilty conscious, but want to give old-stock tubes an honest chance before I take the plunge on the EML. I was able to snag a super cheap Mullard GZ34 "fat base." It definitely has a different sound from the RCA 5V4 - the Mullard is significantly thinner sounding. I'm not too impressed with the upper-mid range either. This are initial impressions, so I will keep can open mind.
   
  Maybe I will give the tung-sol 5u4g a shot. Any other NOS recommendations?


----------



## Sesam

Thanks everyone for the advice, it appears I can't go wrong with either the DacMagic or the Matrix mini-i. I ended up ordering a DacMagic mainly because I can buy it locally, so I can get it tomorrow already and it's more convenient with the warranty. Also I kind of prefer the looks of the DacMagic, while the Matrix i-mini is a nice looking DAC, it's a shame it isn't available with a black faceplate (the silver would clash with my black amp). I also rather have leds than a LCD display. 
   
  Now my next mission is to find some decent cables  
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> have you considered if you want a DAC that Upsamples everything; gives you Upsampling options; Or a NOS DAC (Non-over sampling)? There are trade-offs between the three designs but no clear winners because it depends on the particular model and how well it was designed by the maker.
> Any head-fiers you could go to for a listen nearby? Or store? Other WA22 owners here can help you get into the ballpark.


 
   
  Upsampling is a not a feature I require, I'm fine with either really. Stores with a good selection of audio equipment are few and far between here, so unfortunately I will have to rely on others opinions/reviews.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Despite having several different sets of nice driver and power tubes for my wa22, I have yet to upgrade the rectifier from the stock RCA 5V4 provided by Jack.
> 
> About 6 months ago I was a click away from purchasing the EML but my financial conscious (aka wife) reminded me that we are building a new home and could use that money for "more important" things like paint and blinds and the list goes on (according to her
> 
> ...


 


  About a week ago inside this thread, someone mentioned selling their EML Glass. _If the price is right, that CAN be you in your avatar_.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice, it appears I can't go wrong with either the DacMagic or the Matrix mini-i. I ended up ordering a DacMagic mainly because I can buy it locally, so I can get it tomorrow already and it's more convenient with the warranty. Also I kind of prefer the looks of the DacMagic, while the Matrix i-mini is a nice looking DAC, it's a shame it isn't available with a black faceplate (the silver would clash with my black amp). I also rather have leds than a LCD display.
> 
> Now my next mission is to find some decent cables
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Progress ~
   
  That's good to hear, Sesam! For future upgrades, The Mapleshade Store has a few options for the DacMagic. The biggest being a dedicated linear power supply inside a vibration controlled Maple enclosure.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


flaming_june said:


> I believe the comparison pdf in the woo sponsor page has that info.


 

 Thanks, the comparison page says the Woo 6 is capable of about 550-600mW at 32ohms with 6DR7 tubes.  The HE-500 is 38ohms and the sixmoons review pegged recommended power at 1,000mW.  Would going the 7N7 adapter route on the Woo 6 bump up the power output at all?
   
  A couple of people including Skylab has said the Woo 6 handily deals with the HE-500s, wondering how that is if it's not even getting the recommended power.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Despite having several different sets of nice driver and power tubes for my wa22, I have yet to upgrade the rectifier from the stock RCA 5V4 provided by Jack.
> 
> About 6 months ago I was a click away from purchasing the EML but my financial conscious (aka wife) reminded me that we are building a new home and could use that money for "more important" things like paint and blinds and the list goes on (according to her
> 
> ...


 

 I've not heard of a GZ34 fat base, but I have a Mullard GZ34 which seems thin all around and it is more dynamic in the highs and lows than the EML.


----------



## jamesnz

Quick question, can anyone please give me the approx height of the WA6 / SE with Sophia Princess? I'm trying to improve the space efficiency of my stuff. Does it need much clearance/does it get very hot?
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Quick question, can anyone please give me the approx height of the WA6 / SE with Sophia Princess? I'm trying to improve the space efficiency of my stuff. Does it need much clearance/does it get very hot?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 

 Appx 8-1/2" (+/-) with Sophia installed. You should have a 2" clearance at minimum. The power supply won't get as hot as the amp (which will run very hot w/stock tubes), but ventilation is a good thing for the twin chassis set-up.


----------



## jamesnz

thanks for the quick reply. That's a problem, I've got 9" to a max of 10"... Don't know how I'm gonna get around that one...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> thanks for the quick reply. That's a problem, I've got 9" to a max of 10"... Don't know how I'm gonna get around that one...


 

 How is ventilation around the sides of the Woo? Photograph available? I hear better than I see. And fellow members may see something that we haven't in the way of solutions. Your only option might yet work still because the supply isn't as hot as the amp; ventilation around the unit may help.


----------



## Sesam

Quote:


silent one said:


> For future upgrades, The Mapleshade Store has a few options for the DacMagic. The biggest being a dedicated linear power supply inside a vibration controlled Maple enclosure.


 


  Looks like they indeed have some very nice stuff, but please don't give me any more expensive ideas, I'm already way over budget .
   
  I can't wait to try everything out, I hope everything goes smoothly with the manufacturing and shipping of my WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Looks like they indeed have some very nice stuff, but please don't give me any more expensive ideas, I'm already way over budget .
> ...


 

 Going _over budget_ and _being broke_ are two different things entirely. The former may allow for the movement of a few chess pieces. The latter? Checkmate!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Perhaps, my spending can start anew this autumn...


----------



## Silent One

Our wallets ~
   
  When I first began participating in this thread, I was forewarned indirectly about our wallets by observing warnings to others. Then came my own warnings. The delivery of my amp. And reminders of such warnings that came on the heels of buying cables & accessories. So, now that I'm broke... what happened?!


----------



## WarriorAnt

What's a budget?


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Going _over budget_ and _being broke_ are two different things entirely. The former may allow for the movement of a few chess pieces. The latter? Checkmate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Haha true that, I still have some dineros left that are reserved for stocking up on tubes. To get things started I ordered some Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures , and then some cheap Shuguang 274B and 6N5PJ tubes (this is a gamble, I have not heard anything about the Shuguang 6N5PJ). 
   
  If only I can stick with just new production tubes all will be fine.... Who am I kidding, we all know I'm not going to be able to resist the call of NOS tubes


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Our wallets ~
> 
> When I first began participating in this thread, I was forewarned indirectly about our wallets by observing warnings to others. Then came my own warnings. The delivery of my amp. And reminders of such warnings that came on the heels of buying cables & accessories. So, now that I'm broke... what happened?!


 

 You're in good company.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Haha true that, I still have some dineros left that are reserved for stocking up on tubes. To get things started I ordered some Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures , and then some cheap Shuguang 274B and 6N5PJ tubes (this is a gamble, I have not heard anything about the Shuguang 6N5PJ).
> 
> If only I can stick with just new production tubes all will be fine.... Who am I kidding, we all know I'm not going to be able to resist the call of NOS tubes


 

 Suggestion ~
   
  Just a suggestion: After receiving the much vaunted WA22, on your mobile device make note to yourself to _"Take breaks."_


----------



## jamesnz

Quote:


silent one said:


> How is ventilation around the sides of the Woo? Photograph available? I hear better than I see. And fellow members may see something that we haven't in the way of solutions. Your only option might yet work still because the supply isn't as hot as the amp; ventilation around the unit may help.



   
  I'll find somewhere else for the games if I need to and move the whole lot down. Unfortunately desktop is not an option at this stage, and yes, not the greatest shelves. However, they aren't long term and are pretty adjustable.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> silent one said:
> ...


 

  
  Beware it's a trap! But first, I have no idea what the operating temperature in the room is maintained at; where you live (summer is upon us). But, I do have an idea about your components. Your shot suggests the amp will go on the top rack.
   
  Unsure if you'll be operating either the Mac or the PS3 (both?) at the same time as your amp but they both generate a fair amount of heat on their own. Since heat rises and with your amp nearly cornered, your airflow will get severely hampered.
   
  Your media positioned below looks neat; convenient. But may have to lose its real estate for the benefit of your Woo. You'll soon be fine - experimentation makes this hobby fun!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> You're in good company.


 


  For support, we might have to meet at Hacienda Crossings - Mimi's Cafe or SBUX.


----------



## Skylab

I have always felt that 5U4G tubes were warmer and lusher than 5AR4/GZ34's. But one 5AR4 I really like is the copper grid GE. Not fancy to look at, but really good sounding,


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Thanks, the comparison page says the Woo 6 is capable of about 550-600mW at 32ohms with 6DR7 tubes.  The HE-500 is 38ohms and the sixmoons review pegged recommended power at 1,000mW.  Would going the 7N7 adapter route on the Woo 6 bump up the power output at all?
> 
> A couple of people including Skylab has said the Woo 6 handily deals with the HE-500s, wondering how that is if it's not even getting the recommended power.


 
  Quite the opposite actually, since the 7n7 and 6sn7 are lower gain tubes the output power would be reduced over the 6dr7 or 6fd7.  They do have more gain than the 6de7 or 6ew7 though.  Keep in mind that planars work differently than dynamic headphones in terms of impedance and load, so the 38ohm impedance doesn't mean the same thing it would to the amp if it were a normal dynamic headphone.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> Quite the opposite actually, since the 7n7 and 6sn7 are lower gain tubes the output power would be reduced over the 6dr7 or 6fd7.  They do have more gain than the 6de7 or 6ew7 though.  Keep in mind that planars work differently than dynamic headphones in terms of impedance and load, so the 38ohm impedance doesn't mean the same thing it would to the amp if it were a normal dynamic headphone.


 

 Ah ok.  But how does one determine planar power requirements then?  Just hearsay?  
   
  I hear conflicting opinions on the LCD2s power req. all the time.  Some say it's driven easily by even portable amps and some say "feed it 2Ws+ and you'll _really_ see that they're capable of doing."   
   
  Edit: maybe just people confusing quality amping with higher power output.


----------



## jonnyhambone

tee hee...I'm giddy with aural pleasure  --  Got my new silver Woo 6SE yesterday in the mail.  Spent a frustrating evening trying to get it going with a consistent prob. of loud buzzing in both earcups.  Finally unplugged the tv/cable jacks I had running through the receiver and got rid of the ground loop buzz.  Now it sounds just awesome, even with just a couple hours on it...can't wait to listen thru the burn-in and see what happens.  I've been pulling out my fave lp's all night and am just pleased as punch in my new-found addiction.  Sophia Princess and a couple diff. driver tubes coming once it burns in for a bit.


----------



## snapple10

Quote: 





jonnyhambone said:


> tee hee...I'm giddy with aural pleasure  --  Got my new silver Woo 6SE yesterday in the mail.  Spent a frustrating evening trying to get it going with a consistent prob. of loud buzzing in both earcups.  Finally unplugged the tv/cable jacks I had running through the receiver and got rid of the ground loop buzz.  Now it sounds just awesome, even with just a couple hours on it...can't wait to listen thru the burn-in and see what happens.  I've been pulling out my fave lp's all night and am just pleased as punch in my new-found addiction.  Sophia Princess and a couple diff. driver tubes coming once it burns in for a bit.


 

 Make a pot of coffee and enjoy


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Ah ok.  But how does one determine planar power requirements then?  Just hearsay?
> 
> ...


 

 I think each person arrives at their own answer to this to be honest.  The issue isn't whether a device can power the LCD-2, because basically anything under the sun is capable of making them produce sound, the question is whether or not it drives them with sufficient competence and control that they achieve the performance the designers intended in terms of dynamics and transparency.  Each and every person has a different opinion on where this line exists based on how critically they listen and how important those types of things are to their listening enjoyment.  This is why one person will claim them to be easy to power while the next says the opposite I think.  Just different expectations of what those people were hoping to hear from the cans.
   
  That's my 2 cents on it anyway.    I will say this though: dynamics are a big part of what makes music feel real and alive.  The WA6 will make music with the LCD-2, of this I have no doubt, but my gut tells me it is going to be a pretty tame and soft sound overall compared to what people have established as reference performance for the LCD-2.  Sadly I can't say from personal experience, that is just conjecture on my part.  I think Skylab is the only person here who has actually used the LCD-2 on a WA6, and his impressions were brief.  I think the pairing exceeded his expectations though which I would take as meaning the combo is at least pleasant and not an outright bad idea.


----------



## danne

Cant wait to see what he has up hes sleeve.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> New Woo news at http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/556674/start-making-your-plans-for-2011-canjam-rmaf-rocky-mountain-audio-fest/30


----------



## grokit

It sounds like it's going to be a monoblock-based speaker and head-amp approaching $10K in price so start saving your pennies now.


----------



## sillysally

Yes air circulation is very important, but also is the ambient temp of the surrounding area. Because of my room size (smaller) and my plasma tv in the same room, I use a portable AC in that room the AC vent in the floor just is not enough.
   
  Now what I have found using my HE6's and my WA5LE is that the proper (to much gain will cause distortion) amount of gain is just one factor. The output volts of what ever is directly feeding your tube amp, of course the tubes you are using along with a amp that can maintain a out put of 1 1/2  watts or 2 watts.
   
  Also it would seem that to maximize what a headphone like the HE6 can really do, is to use a source signal that is "Binaural".
   
  imo using the speaker taps or headphone jack of a speaker amp (4, 8 ohm) and mega watts, is not the answer, Sure the volume is there but the depth/3D soundstage/headstage and the little background sounds along with the slight cross overs, praising are lost to some degree when using a "Binaural" source and to a lessor degree without.
   
  Also don't forget that a DAC chip is not that important because most modern DAC chips are over kill anyway. What is more important is the power supple and the DSP of a DAC, saying that the DAC is well designed of-course and a good match for your audio system.


----------



## jamesnz

Yea, thanks for that. I'll have a big think about how I keep it ventilated. Hopefully will only have it in that setup for the next 6 months (Winter for me) so should be quite cool anyway.
   
  Would the new product be his DAC? I'm sort-of holding my breath for it, if it ever comes out.
  Is there any news on that?


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It sounds like it's going to be a monoblock-based speaker and head-amp approaching $10K in price so start saving your pennies now.


 

 How did you come across this information?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


brasewel said:


> How did you come across this information?


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/557434/new-woo-audio-flagship-amp


----------



## brasewel

^^ Thanks. $10k is just ridiculous though.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> ^^ Thanks. $10k is just ridiculous though.


 


  Not if you have the money and are happy to spend it.
   
  Oh just realized I can't afford it, Yes you are right it is ridiculous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I wonder if Woo would give a 90% discount for current Woo owners!!  I will have to ask Jack


----------



## brasewel

Well it's ridiculous to 99.99% of us so .....


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> .
> Also it would seem that to maximize what a headphone like the HE6 can really do, is to use a source signal that is "Binaural".


 
   
  SS, you keep saying this, and while it may be true, it's basically irrelevant.  The amount of music available that was recorded Binaural is infinitesimally small, and unless the RECORDING is binaural, there is no binaural source.  None of the music I like is available binaural, and I choose the music first, then the gear - I don't choose the music to make the gear sound good.  I suspect most people fall into that camp.


----------



## Wedge

I'm kind of in the camp that I listen to the music that I want to listen to.  I try to find the best recording or format of the music that I can find, but in the end I live with what I can get.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I need a bit of advice from our tube veterans.  One of my recently acquired Sylvania chrome domes has a noise issue.  It isn't microphonic, but rather seems to be electrical.  I'm getting a static/crackling in one channel, and wiggling that tube fixes the issue for a while, only to have it return eventually or at next listening session.  I switched sockets and the problem followed so it is definitely in one of the tubes.  Is there any hope of the problem subsiding, or is it more likely a loose solder to one of the pins in the base?  I doubt the seller has more to send a replacement pair, and I don't want a refund considering what they are and fairly priced they were.
   
  The only thing I haven't tried is swapping just the adapters.  I re-seated the tubes but kept them in the same adapters when I did the channel swap.  I'll try that next time I turn the amp on, and maybe that will cure it since I've seen problems arise from socket to pin contact before.  They also don't need to be cleaned.  The pins were not dirty when I received them, but I gave them the usual treatment anyway and right now they shine like brand new.
   
  These tubes sound phenomenal, better than the side getter Bad Boys, so I'm really hoping it works itself out.
   
  Any thoughts my fellow Woosies?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





skylab said:


> SS, you keep saying this, and while it may be true, it's basically irrelevant.  The amount of music available that was recorded Binaural is infinitesimally small, and unless the RECORDING is binaural, there is no binaural source.  None of the music I like is available binaural, and I choose the music first, then the gear - I don't choose the music to make the gear sound good.  I suspect most people fall into that camp.


 



 Well first it is a fact that Binaural recordings are made for headphones and do optimize how the audio sounds using headphones, some headphones like the Stax and HE6's you will hear bigger differences. Of-course this is saying you have a headphone system (amp, dac, etc) that is well made like my WA5LE and tubes.
   
  This my surprise you but I don't own any Binaural recordings because as you said there are very few audio disc's that are Binaural. And as you might know Binaural recordings don't work for a speaker system.
   
  I use a Smyth Realiser A8 along with PRIR's that where made for me at AIX sound studio in LA, using there high end sound systems, room acoustics, etc. and of-course having there sound engineer set everything up for me. So now using my Realiser in my man cave the audio I hear coming from my HE6's is very close to how the audio sounded coming from AIX's speaker systems and acoustics.
  My Oppo BDP-95 (Subre ES9018 dat chip) feeds my Realiser with up to 7.1Ch's via RCA cables. Then the Realiser does its magic in the digital realm to covert a non Binaural recording to a Binaural recording, but the Realiser goes one step further and creates the Binaural recording using my ears/head not some dummies ears/head. So what all this means is that any type of audio that is played back using the Realiser will only work properly for my ears not yours, unless you have done your own PRIR's using your ears and head then you could load those PRIR's on any Realiser and hear the audio as if you where back at the room or hall you made your PRIR's.
  Just to be clear you must have a Realiser to make these PRIR's, but you can use any speaker system you want as does the sound engineers/sound mix when they are making a movie or audio recording. These guys have many PRIR's to hear whatever they are working on sounds in different rooms.
   
  This is what I was reporting over on the vintage receiver thread, using my sx650, my tx-sr750a/v and headphone amps using my HE6 headphones.
   
  In my case I use mainly MC (5.1/7.1) music and movies disc's, but I also play my 2Ch stereo audio disc's and my stereo music videos through my A8 in the 5.1 surround  mode, like some folks use PLXII or what ever for there 5.1/7.1 speaker system.


----------



## Skylab

Ahhhh, OK SillySally, what you were really saying is that the HE-6 only sound their best with the Realizer. I have never heard it, so I have no opinion on that.

XCaliber, sounds to me like the tube pins need a good cleaning. But it could be the adapters, so try swapping those. I was thinking you might have a tube socket problem until you said the problem followed the tube, so it seems like it is dirty pins or the adapters. A true problem with the tube would be unlikely to be intermittent.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ahhhh, OK SillySally, what you were really saying is that the HE-6 only sound their best with the Realizer. I have never heard it, so I have no opinion on that.
> 
> XCaliber, sounds to me like the tube pins need a good cleaning. But it could be the adapters, so try swapping those. I was thinking you might have a tube socket problem until you said the problem followed the tube, so it seems like it is dirty pins or the adapters. A true problem with the tube would be unlikely to be intermittent.


 
  Any recommendations for pin cleaning equipment?  I use one of those scotch brite pads, but was wondering if there was something better out there.  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

I use very fine steel wool, followed by a treatment of Caig ProGold.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ahhhh, OK SillySally, what you were really saying is that the HE-6 only sound their best with the Realizer. I have never heard it, so I have no opinion on that.
> 
> XCaliber, sounds to me like the tube pins need a good cleaning. But it could be the adapters, so try swapping those. I was thinking you might have a tube socket problem until you said the problem followed the tube, so it seems like it is dirty pins or the adapters. A true problem with the tube would be unlikely to be intermittent.


 

 Just to clarify, the HE-6 using my BD-95 dedicated 2Ch analog stereo out via interconnects to my WA5LE also sounds great for 2Ch stereo music unless you are using a very high grade and/or detailed recording with some very subtle detail, then you may want to add the Realiser and also my ADG DAC19 DSP1v5 (pcm 1704UK dac's) to the chain. For any other audio like SACD 5.1, DVD-A 5.1, Bly Ray 5.1/7.1 then there is no contest, the Realiser with its use of "Binaural" type of processing is really amazing.
   
  My point is that first you must have the HE-6 properly Amp (as you know), the "Binaural" type of signal simply shows off the HE-6's ability to pick up on detail and head-staging/sound-staging.


----------



## Icenine2

Off topic.  The Fleetwood Mac Rumours Album remastered on 45 RPM is unbelievable.  You've never heard it like this.  The sound is incredible and dynamic.  Nothing like you've heard.  Stevie Hoffman remastered and he said there were some crazy amount of versions since it was continually being re-pressed.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Off topic.  The Fleetwood Mac Rumours Album remastered on 45 RPM is unbelievable.  You've never heard it like this.  The sound is incredible and dynamic.  Nothing like you've heard.  Stevie Hoffman remastered and he said there were some crazy amount of versions since it was continually being re-pressed.


 

 I love those 45 rpm remasters.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I love those 45 rpm remasters.


 

 I love the sound of the 45 rpm masters but it feels like the second I sit down, the side is done.


----------



## Skylab

dminches said:


> I love the sound of the 45 rpm masters but it feels like the second I sit down, the side is done.


Ain't THAT the truth! And it's enough of a hassle to change speeds on my VPI that I actually only play those on my DD Denon, which of course isn't quite as nice of a deck (although still quite nice)


----------



## PanamaRed

I spent a great deal of money (for my standards at least) on tubes this week for my WA22:
   
  So far I've received:
  CBS JAN-CHY-5692
  Ken Rad VT-231
  RCA VT-244
  Tung Sol Round Plate Black Glass VT-231
  Mullard GZ34
   
  And i'm waiting on:
  GEC 6080
  Tung Sol 5998
  Tung Sol 6080 WA
   
  I plan to do some tube rolling and find the perfect match for both my hd800 and LCD2.
   
  I've had the RCA VT-244 paired with the Tung Sol VT-231's (and some JAN GE 6080s). I am not overly thrilled with this combination using the HD800. I find the bass to be very laid back. Although admittedly the tubes probably have about 10 hours on them so far so things may change.
   
  However, this combination with the LCD-2's is good times.
   
  More to come


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I'm moving my turntable into my office, then there will be no excuses!
   


  Quote: 





dminches said:


> I love the sound of the 45 rpm masters but it feels like the second I sit down, the side is done.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I love the sound of the 45 rpm masters but it feels like the second I sit down, the side is done.


 

 It gets better. You could be prepping and serving refreshments for guests, while spinning 45 rpm masters... _which would really leave you spinning.  _


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> XCaliber, sounds to me like the tube pins need a good cleaning. But it could be the adapters, so try swapping those. I was thinking you might have a tube socket problem until you said the problem followed the tube, so it seems like it is dirty pins or the adapters. A true problem with the tube would be unlikely to be intermittent.


 

 It was the adapters.  The contact seemed to be a bit loose on one of them.  I didn't suspect it at first because this is the first time I've had trouble with them and they use the same socket pins as the Woo itself.  I switched back to my old adapters which are a bear to put tubes into and so far there is no static, so I'm thinking that was it.  It couldn't have been the pins, they are flawlessly clean.  These tubes came to me in very clean condition even before I cleaned them.  I've been thinking of posting a picture in the 6SN7 thread, because this particular style of Sylvania seems awfully low on everybody's radar, but I'm utterly smitten with them.  They sound incredible.
   
  Thanks as always for the help.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Any recommendations for pin cleaning equipment?  I use one of those scotch brite pads, but was wondering if there was something better out there.  Thanks.


 
  I do the same thing as Skylab:  finest grade of steel wool you can find, followed by (in my case) De-Oxit, which is a similar product to ProGold that is meant to break up oxidation on very tarnished metal surfaces.  Pull a little wool off the bunch in the same direction it was wound and roll it in your hand until it forms a long thin strip.  I loop it around the pins and just work back and forth really fast which gets the insides, then fold the piece of wool and go over the tops of the pins second.  You'll have a brilliant shine when done, but be careful to get ALL the steel wool bits off afterwards.  If a piece is touching two pins when you put it in the amp it will cause a short.  I clean mine with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol as a final step, after using a Q-tip to apply de-oxit.  I've found it to be a bad idea to leave the de-oxit on the pins because it stains the tube sockets pink.  I suspect Pro Gold won't have this issue since it is mean to be a protective coating rather than a cleaner.


----------



## Sesam

Just to report back, I received the DacMagic today, and I'm really happy with it. It's definitely an improvement from my Asus Xonar STX (even though I upgraded the opamps on it). Also it is neutral just like I wanted, I did not change the sound signature (so no need to roll tubes or adjust anything from my current setup). 
   
  Also I was happy to see that it was black so that it will match my WA22, on pictures the DacMagic looked grey. Really nice build quality, the only detail I did not like about it is the cheap looking PSU


----------



## sampson_smith

Thanks very much for the informative nature of this post! Looking forward to using Deoxit and/or Pro Gold on the tubes I will roll on my in-transit WA6SE. Exciting!
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I do the same thing as Skylab:  finest grade of steel wool you can find, followed by (in my case) De-Oxit, which is a similar product to ProGold that is meant to break up oxidation on very tarnished metal surfaces.  Pull a little wool off the bunch in the same direction it was wound and roll it in your hand until it forms a long thin strip.  I loop it around the pins and just work back and forth really fast which gets the insides, then fold the piece of wool and go over the tops of the pins second.  You'll have a brilliant shine when done, but be careful to get ALL the steel wool bits off afterwards.  If a piece is touching two pins when you put it in the amp it will cause a short.  I clean mine with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol as a final step, after using a Q-tip to apply de-oxit.  I've found it to be a bad idea to leave the de-oxit on the pins because it stains the tube sockets pink.  I suspect Pro Gold won't have this issue since it is mean to be a protective coating rather than a cleaner.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It was the adapters.  The contact seemed to be a bit loose on one of them.  I didn't suspect it at first because this is the first time I've had trouble with them and they use the same socket pins as the Woo itself.  I switched back to my old adapters which are a bear to put tubes into and so far there is no static, so I'm thinking that was it.  It couldn't have been the pins, they are flawlessly clean.  These tubes came to me in very clean condition even before I cleaned them.  I've been thinking of posting a picture in the 6SN7 thread, because this particular style of Sylvania seems awfully low on everybody's radar, but I'm utterly smitten with them.  They sound incredible.
> 
> Thanks as always for the help.


 

 Radar ~
   
  I love a low-flying, radar evading audio find... tubes especially! Would like to have a closer look at the Syl's this autumn (photograph?) Also, thanks for the method to your madness on pin cleaning. To date, I've been merely topical about cleaning but not yet nitty-gritty.
   
  Now armed with knowledge and confidence!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It was the adapters.  The contact seemed to be a bit loose on one of them.  I didn't suspect it at first because this is the first time I've had trouble with them and they use the same socket pins as the Woo itself.  I switched back to my old adapters which are a bear to put tubes into and so far there is no static, so I'm thinking that was it.  It couldn't have been the pins, they are flawlessly clean.  These tubes came to me in very clean condition even before I cleaned them.  I've been thinking of posting a picture in the 6SN7 thread, because this particular style of Sylvania seems awfully low on everybody's radar, but I'm utterly smitten with them.  They sound incredible.
> 
> Thanks as always for the help.


 

 Your old adapters with the Anphenol sockets might be a bear to put the tubes in but they always have a good contact.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I just saw this.  Eddie Current has a new Tube Socket patent pending.
  http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Tube_Socket.html


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It was the adapters.  The contact seemed to be a bit loose on one of them.  I didn't suspect it at first because this is the first time I've had trouble with them and they use the same socket pins as the Woo itself.  I switched back to my old adapters which are a bear to put tubes into and so far there is no static, so I'm thinking that was it.  It couldn't have been the pins, they are flawlessly clean.  These tubes came to me in very clean condition even before I cleaned them.  *I've been thinking of posting a picture in the 6SN7 thread,* because this particular style of Sylvania seems awfully low on everybody's radar, but I'm utterly smitten with them.  They sound incredible.
> 
> Thanks as always for the help.


 

 Please do, I believe that I am subscribed to that thread and I for one would like to see them. I would like to compare them to my Bad Boys. I've read descriptions of various versions of these tubes but not seen many photos.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Please do, I believe that I am subscribed to that thread and I for one would like to see them. I would like to compare them to my Bad Boys. I've read descriptions of various versions of these tubes but not seen many photos.


 

 In the studio with Sylvania ~
   
  S_hoot it, Xcalibur255... shoot it!_


----------



## dark1evil2

hello im looking to upgrade my xonar st
   
  what you guys recommend in range 350-450 $? im leaning toward dacmagic
  my current setup: xonar st > woo 3 > dt990 (600ohm)
   
  im gonna order tomorrow, and thanks


----------



## grokit

Scroll back a page or three and there is a discussion of the DacMagc and the Matrix Mini-i.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





dark1evil2 said:


> hello im looking to upgrade my xonar st
> 
> what you guys recommend in range 350-450 $? im leaning toward dacmagic
> my current setup: xonar st > woo 3 > dt990 (600ohm)
> ...


 

 I received my Matrix Mini-I earlier this week. I think it is one of the best values I have found for audio. I highly recommend it


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Your old adapters with the Anphenol sockets might be a bear to put the tubes in but they always have a good contact.


 
  Yeah, that replacement socket you sent me definitely grips well, but I'm always worried about breaking base glue because of how strongly I have to yank when removing them, even when gripping only by the base.  The teflon socket adapters have been great, this is the very first time I've ever had a tube be finicky with them and I've had a dozen pairs in them now.  Nothing is perfect all the time, and I imagine it is just a case of that one pin on the Sylvania tube being just thin enough to cause an intermittent issue.  Certainly not the fault of the adapters.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Please do, I believe that I am subscribed to that thread and I for one would like to see them. I would like to compare them to my Bad Boys. I've read descriptions of various versions of these tubes but not seen many photos.


 


  Maybe I will do that write-up afterall and take a photo of each type all together.  I have four distinct types of Sylvania 6SN7 and three of them are top getters.  Resources such as the reference thread don't go into detail about the variations between them all, and I've found there are indeed sonic variations.  I wish the photo links in that thread weren't all dead, that would help immensely.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe I will do that write-up afterall and take a photo of each type all together.  I have four distinct types of Sylvania 6SN7 and three of them are top getters.  Resources such as the reference thread don't go into detail about the variations between them all, and I've found there are indeed sonic variations.  I wish the photo links in that thread weren't all dead, that would help immensely.


 


  The Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite thread will be _rewarded &_ _invigorated_ from your effort. Thanks in advance.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, that replacement socket you sent me definitely grips well, but I'm always worried about breaking base glue because of how strongly I have to yank when removing them, even when gripping only by the base.  The teflon socket adapters have been great, this is the very first time I've ever had a tube be finicky with them and I've had a dozen pairs in them now.  Nothing is perfect all the time, and I imagine it is just a case of that one pin on the Sylvania tube being just thin enough to cause an intermittent issue.  Certainly not the fault of the adapters.


 


 You can always just leave that pair of Sylvania tubes in those adapters and use the Teflon ones for all your other tubes


----------



## Wedge

WA-5 is back in business 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I know not a lot of people like this amp with the LCD-2 but to be honest out of the K1K it works, just needed a little tweaking on the noise pots.  The amp was in the shop getting the volume pot replaced.


----------



## brasewel

^^ Very nice. Unfortunate that I couldn't hear it at your place. Maybe you'll bring it at the next NJ meet.


----------



## Caphead78

I saw this in the Head-fi station thread, are those Sophia 300b's? Also do you prefer the Woo to your Leben and your Apex Peak with the LCD 2?


----------



## Wedge

Chelmer CV575 rectifiers, Chelmer CV181 (Mullard ECC32s), and EAT 300Bs.  The answer to that really depends.  My mood can dictate which amp I feel like listening to.  The kind of music I am listening to can really change my choice in amplifier.  In all honesty the WA-5 and the HE-6 is one of those combos that is like damn hard to beat, but then so is the Leben or Apex P/V with the LCD-2.  The LCD-2 and WA-5 doesn't particularly work for me with every kind of music.  The mid range of the WA-5 is generally very seductive, and just really a treat to listen to.  I feel like this is a trait that can be attributed to the 300Bs.  The 300Bs are the more dynamic of the 300Bs I have which I don't have too many of those, out of the ones I do own, they are my favorite.  Silly Sally has raved about the WE 300Bs but I really don't want to spend the money to possibly get ripped off.  I didn't really find the WA-5 all that impressive with the stock tubes, but with the EATs, a good set of 6SN7s, its one of my favorite headphone amps, does a nice job with efficient speakers too.  So the answer to your question is on music where the mids are the focus point, I do prefer listening to the WA-5.  Some tracks that can be a little bass heavy are a little overbearing for me to listen to on the WA-5.  I previously owned a WA-22, and many hear love the WA-22 with the LCD-2, I prefer the WA-5, which I thought the WA-22 was a little too mellow with the LCD-2, but similarly to Skylab I have a refusal to use New Production tubes, unless I am forced to.


----------



## spagetka

+1
  
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> Chelmer CV575 rectifiers, Chelmer CV181 (Mullard ECC32s), and EAT 300Bs.  The answer to that really depends.  My mood can dictate which amp I feel like listening to.  The kind of music I am listening to can really change my choice in amplifier.  In all honesty the WA-5 and the HE-6 is one of those combos that is like damn hard to beat, but then so is the Leben or Apex P/V with the LCD-2.  The LCD-2 and WA-5 doesn't particularly work for me with every kind of music.  The mid range of the WA-5 is generally very seductive, and just really a treat to listen to.  I feel like this is a trait that can be attributed to the 300Bs.  The 300Bs are the more dynamic of the 300Bs I have which I don't have too many of those, out of the ones I do own, they are my favorite.  Silly Sally has raved about the WE 300Bs but I really don't want to spend the money to possibly get ripped off.  I didn't really find the WA-5 all that impressive with the stock tubes, but with the EATs, a good set of 6SN7s, its one of my favorite headphone amps, does a nice job with efficient speakers too.  So the answer to your question is on music where the mids are the focus point, I do prefer listening to the WA-5.  Some tracks that can be a little bass heavy are a little overbearing for me to listen to on the WA-5.  I previously owned a WA-22, and many hear love the WA-22 with the LCD-2, I prefer the WA-5, which I thought the WA-22 was a little too mellow with the LCD-2, but similarly to Skylab I have a refusal to use New Production tubes, unless I am forced to.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wedge said:


> WA-5 is back in business
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Really nice setup, Wedge.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wedge said:


> WA-5 is back in business
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 For a repair like that do you send it back to WOO or to someone locally?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wedge said:


> WA-5 is back in business
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The absence of color from your amp highlights your tube selection quite magnificently!


----------



## Wedge

If I wasn't sending it back to Jack, then I would probably do it myself.  I don't really trust other people more than I trust myself.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> For a repair like that do you send it back to WOO or to someone locally?


----------



## Wedge

Thanks guys!


----------



## Skylab

No doubt, very nice rig, Wedge! Outstanding.


----------



## Wedge

I wonder how the HD-800 would sound on the WA-5.  I'm very tempted to buy a pair.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I spoke too soon.  The static/crackling is still there.  The chances of both adapters, using different socket types, having an issue seems unlikely so it must be the tube.  Wiggling it will eliminate (or worsen) the static for a time, but it comes and goes in general.  If it is a solder connection to one of the pins that makes it basically unfixable from my perspective.  Do I have any options for solving this?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I spoke too soon.  The static/crackling is still there.  The chances of both adapters, using different socket types, having an issue seems unlikely so it must be the tube.  Wiggling it will eliminate (or worsen) the static for a time, but it comes and goes in general.  If it is a solder connection to one of the pins that makes it basically unfixable from my perspective.  Do I have any options for solving this?


 

 Do you have a soldering iron? If you do sometimes all you have to do is heat the tube pins till the solder in them melts.
 Some times you have to add solder.
    If you want you can send the tube to me and I will re solder the pins no charge just pay the postage back.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Do you have a soldering iron? If you do sometimes all you have to do is heat the tube pins till the solder in them melts.
> Some times you have to add solder.
> If you want you can send the tube to me and I will re solder the pins no charge just pay the postage back.


 
  Thanks Glenn, that is a very generous offer.  If it doesn't settle down in the next few days I may PM you about that offer.    Since the tube reacts to being wiggled by the base I'm thinking this is the problem, but after re-seating them again last night I got through a 90 minute listening session noise free..... so who knows.


----------



## Dennis

Hey, guys, take a look at this ---> 

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-GEC-U709-EZ81-VALVES-MATCHED-PAIR-BRITISH-TUBE-/110697539455?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item19c616677f#ht_500wt_922


Especially WA2 owners !


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I wonder how the HD-800 would sound on the WA-5.  I'm very tempted to buy a pair.


 

 I tried my K1000 and HD800 out of the WA5 at CanJam 2009, and preferred the HD800 with it.  I think my ZDT does just as good a job with the HD800 and still like them even after 2 years.


----------



## Broken Arrow

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I wonder how the HD-800 would sound on the WA-5.  I'm very tempted to buy a pair.


 

 i have that combo , see my sig.
  as far as the stock tubes go it sounds great. I recently bought my self a full set of Sophia's. they are so much more refined. Great tight bass and a very airy mid. The highs are on the bright side but that might have to do with my DAC , it is not over the top though so for me this is a killer combo.
  my music preferences are , to name a few , Jamiroqai , Andrea Corr , Anouk , Diana Krall , Lady antabellum , Selah Sue ( really great ) , Glennis Grace ( absolutely stunning )


----------



## spagetka

I tried LCD2 with my WA5. It was good with strong bass and great detail but I feel like in the box. Sence of air behind the tone was not like it is with K1000. Hights are weak point of LCD2. 
   
  I'd really love to try HE6.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> I tried LCD2 with my WA5. It was good with strong bass and great detail but I feel like in the box. Sence of air behind the tone was not like it is with K1000. Hights are weak point of LCD2.
> 
> I'd really love to try HE6.


 
  Yes try the HE6's, imo the WA5/LE is the perfect tube headphone amp for the HE6.
   
  Headphones like the HD-800 will sound good on most good tube amps, headphones like the LCD2 have there weak points and the WA5 imo helps to bring out those weak points. The HE6's should take you out of the box and give you some very nice highs.
  But per usual you are the end user so its how you like them, and also the other gears and source audio you are using.


----------



## spagetka

Thank you very much for your comment ss. There is no chance to try HE6 here in Czech. 
   
  I am still AKG guy. But maybe... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes try the HE6's, imo the WA5/LE is the perfect tube headphone amp for the HE6.
> 
> Headphones like the HD-800 will sound good on most good tube amps, headphones like the LCD2 have there weak points and the WA5 imo helps to bring out those weak points. The HE6's should take you out of the box and give you some very nice highs.
> But per usual you are the end user so its how you like them, and also the other gears and source audio you are using.


----------



## Sesam

What new production power tubes are available for the WA22?
   
  I try to avoid NOS tubes, but having looked around, I only found new production Shuguang 6N5PJ tubes. Those according to the retailer are 6AS7 compatible, anyone who can confirm this? I ordered some just because they were really cheap, but I don't want to fry my amp


----------



## jerico

Sesam, check The Tube Store's 6AS7 page. I don't know how any of these sound, but there are some new production choices.

Also, you can check out Woo's tube compatibility chart to see what alternative types you can look for.


----------



## dmac03

Anyone consider the psvane tubes. Their sound is considered to be "modern refined" vs the treasures. I'm not jumping out of my chair to purchase a pair right now, but has anyone else thought of it?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> Anyone consider the psvane tubes. Their sound is considered to be "modern refined" vs the treasures. I'm not jumping out of my chair to purchase a pair right now, but has anyone else thought of it?


 


  They also claimed the Z series treasures were meant to mimick the sound of old NOS tubes, so in my mind the only thing "modern" could mean in this context is brighter and more dynamic.  Why new tube makers are constantly trying to make tubes sound more like solid state audio simply boggles my mind.  If you take away the euphonics and analog sound of tubes all that is left is the fact that you had to pay more to get the same performance than you would have from a comparable solid state design.  That is probably a somewhat unfair oversimplification, admittedly, but the point still holds I believe.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Sesam, check The Tube Store's 6AS7 page. I don't know how any of these sound, but there are some new production choices.
> 
> Also, you can check out Woo's tube compatibility chart to see what alternative types you can look for.


 

 I am almost 100% certain that NONE of those are current production, and that there are NO current production 6AS7G tube types.
   
  There are mountains of Russian and Chinese 6AS7G equivalents - you can literally buy the Russian tubes by the 100's if you wanted to.  But still they are not current production, technically they too are NOS.


----------



## grokit

Does anyone know anything about the 5998A? It supposedly replaces the 5998.
   
  http://thetubestore.com/nos-5998.html


----------



## MacedonianHero

grokit said:


> Does anyone know anything about the 5998A? It supposedly replaces the 5998.
> 
> http://thetubestore.com/nos-5998.html




No, it is a poor substitute for the TS5998. It sounds "adequate" at best.


----------



## jerico

skylab said:


> I am almost 100% certain that NONE of those are current production, and that there are NO current production 6AS7G tube types.
> 
> There are mountains of Russian and Chinese 6AS7G equivalents - you can literally buy the Russian tubes by the 100's if you wanted to.  But still they are not current production, technically they too are NOS.




Yup, looks like Skylab is right. Note to self: no browsing for tubes at bedtime...

On a different subject - I managed to pick up 3 TS 5U4GB rectifiers this weekend for about $40 total. I've come to like the TS 5U4G (not GB) that i akready have better than the EML, when paired with Sylvania 7236 and VT231 (all for the LCD2). Previously, I didn't care for the 7236.


----------



## davo50

Grab it while you can.  I am selling an EML 5U4G mesh plate priced to sell.


----------



## Sesam

Thanks for the advice Jerico and Skylab, yea it's not that I have problems finding NOS power tubes. It's just that I try to stick with new production as much as possible, so that I don't have to end up on Ebay desperately hunting spares.
   
  However..
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I am almost 100% certain that NONE of those are current production, and that there are NO current production 6AS7G tube types.
> 
> There are mountains of Russian and Chinese 6AS7G equivalents - you can literally buy the Russian tubes by the 100's if you wanted to.  But still they are not current production, technically they too are NOS.


 


   

  ... if there is mountains of those tubes available, I guess there will not be a shortage anytime soon. In related news my WooAudio22 shipped today, wooo!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Thanks for the advice Jerico and Skylab, yea it's not that I have problems finding NOS power tubes. It's just that I try to stick with new production as much as possible, so that I don't have to end up on Ebay desperately hunting spares.
> 
> However..
> 
> ...


 

 Also one resource to consider and that is Jack.  You can talk directly to him and ask him for a recommendation and he can get you tubes that he backs up at reasonable prices.


----------



## mikemalter

I'm selling my PS Audio PWD with the bridge for $2400.  Both the PWD and the bridge have the latest firmware updates and I have about 250 hours on it.  Please PM me if you are interested.


----------



## PanamaRed

I've been feverishly rolling tubes these past few days in an attempt to find the perfect combination:
   
  I tested Ken Rad Vt-231, CBS/Hytron 5692, Tung Sol VT-231 black glass round plate, Tung Sol 5998, GEC 6080,  RCA VT-244, and a GZ34 Mullard Metalbase.
   
  I did the majority of my testing trying to get the HD800 to sound right for my ears. I chose the HD800 because it is much harder for me to be pleased by these cans than the LCD-2.
   
  In the end I found the combination of the Mullard Gz34, the Tung Sol 5998, and the CBS/Hytron 5692 to be the best for my needs. I found the Hytrons to be a pleasant surprise. For me, they didn't have as much slam as Ken Rads but some slam was present. The highs and the mids were perfect for me and I really had a good sense of the seperation of instruments. In fact, this combination had me listening to music that I would never normally chose to partake in. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXck2GOkWXk
   
  I was actually very shocked with the Tung Sols - I did not really like them as much as the others and found their highs to be very uncomfortable. I do remember liking them more with the GEC 6080s and the RCA VT-244. But with that combination I preferred the Ken Rads.
   
  Next step is to see how this setup fairs with my favorite headphone - the LCD-2.


----------



## Nova13

Does anyone have experience with fleeting hum that shows up initially in NOS tubes?
   
  I have heard whispers of it - that "often" NOS tubes initially have some hum that goes away with time.  Can anyone comment?
   
  I recently got some NOS 6dj8 JAN Sylvania drivers for my WA3 - they hum.  One channel more than the other.  I tried swapping channels, tried cleaning (per the directions from a few pages ago), no dice.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I've been feverishly rolling tubes these past few days in an attempt to find the perfect combination:
> 
> I tested Ken Rad Vt-231, CBS/Hytron 5692, Tung Sol VT-231 black glass round plate, Tung Sol 5998, GEC 6080,  RCA VT-244, and a GZ34 Mullard Metalbase.
> 
> ...


 

 Panama, do you know if your TungSol's were round or oval micas?
  
   


  Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Does anyone have experience with fleeting hum that shows up initially in NOS tubes?
> 
> I have heard whispers of it - that "often" NOS tubes initially have some hum that goes away with time.  Can anyone comment?
> 
> I recently got some NOS 6dj8 JAN Sylvania drivers for my WA3 - they hum.  One channel more than the other.  I tried swapping channels, tried cleaning (per the directions from a few pages ago), no dice.


 

 I have had that problem when I am tube rolling.  I get the most hum from my GEC 6AS7G's (have two pairs and both do it).  When I keep the tubes in the amp and then use it the next day, I never get that hum or other audio artifacts.


----------



## Nova13

So I should leave them in awhile and let them run before giving up!
   
  The amp just needs to be on, right?  No music needeth flow?
   
   
  Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## PanamaRed

Round micas.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Panama, do you know if your TungSol's were round or oval micas?


----------



## nanaholic

Just dropping in to say that that I've placed an order for a WA6 with the Sophia 274b rectifier, will have to read up on the tube rolling.  Looking forward to a shoot down between this and my Burson SS amp.


----------



## Skylab

The 5998A is not nearly as good sounding as the 5998.  Not the same tube at all in terms of construction.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Round micas.


 

 Are the pins running through the plates copper colored or silver?  Also, how many hours have you put on them?  I found my tung sols to have unusually peaky highs when new, but they settle down beautifully with time.  They weren't what I would call "bright" in a way that produces sibilance, it was further up the range than that even.  Deceptively fatiguing and hard to listen to until it goes away, but boy when it goes away....... what comes afterwards is very easy to fall in love with.  
   
  I nearly tried the CBS/Hytron 5692 you mentioned, but ended up picking up some Brimar clearglass 6SN7GTY instead.  A decision I regret.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> So I should leave them in awhile and let them run before giving up!
> 
> The amp just needs to be on, right?  No music needeth flow?
> 
> ...


 


  No actual music needs to be playing.  Headphones should be plugged into the output though.


----------



## PanamaRed

Copper colored. Actually your description is exactly what I am hearing. I will burn these in some more and then see how that changes things. Thanks Xcalibur.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Are the pins running through the plates copper colored or silver?  Also, how many hours have you put on them?  I found my tung sols to have unusually peaky highs when new, but they settle down beautifully with time.  They weren't what I would call "bright" in a way that produces sibilance, it was further up the range than that even.  Deceptively fatiguing and hard to listen to until it goes away, but boy when it goes away....... what comes afterwards is very easy to fall in love with.
> 
> I nearly tried the CBS/Hytron 5692 you mentioned, but ended up picking up some Brimar clearglass 6SN7GTY instead.  A decision I regret.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Copper colored. Actually your description is exactly what I am hearing. I will burn these in some more and then see how that changes things. Thanks Xcalibur.


 
  Copper are the more mellow ones, so that is good.
   
  It does take some time.  I put around 75 hours on mine and thought that was enough, but it wasn't until a second listening session at a later date that the magic happened.  I feel it was much too dramatic a change to have just been my own variations in perception.  To date I have heard nothing better, especially if you are keen on imaging and soundstage presentation like I am.


----------



## jonnyhambone

I've been burning in (and listening a ton) my new WA6se and am now considering a few tube upgrades.  Poring over this thread lately, I'm pretty overwhelmed.   Being brand new to tube amps, let alone rolling, I'm leaning towards a simple solution of ordering what Jack suggested - a Sophia Princess 274B rectifier (or maybe EML 5u4g if I can find lil' cheaper option) and a set of 6FD7 drivers.  Any feedback on that call?  I'm currently using HF-1 phones and listen to rock, jazz stuff for the most part...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Nothing wrong with starting simple.  What matters is that you are comfortable with what you're doing.  If you order 6FD7 from Jack, ask him for Sylvanias as they are generally held to be the best.  Also, if you started out with the Shugang 274B as your rectifier, you might gain some ground with a cheap NOS upgrade such as a Tung Sol 5U4G before dropping money on the Princess.  I'm of the opinion that if a person is going to go for the Sophia they might as well spring for the EML and go all out.  The sense of weight, texture and depth to notes brings greater realism to the music with my EML 274B, and it offers a more three dimensional soundstage as well with better depth and imaging.  In absolute terms the level of detail and clarity isn't necessarily better, so it depends upon which aspects of the performance you personally place value in.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jonnyhambone said:


> I've been burning in (and listening a ton) my new WA6se and am now considering a few tube upgrades.  Poring over this thread lately, I'm pretty overwhelmed.   Being brand new to tube amps, let alone rolling, I'm leaning towards a simple solution of ordering what Jack suggested - a Sophia Princess 274B rectifier (or maybe EML 5u4g if I can find lil' cheaper option) and a set of 6FD7 drivers.  Any feedback on that call?  I'm currently using HF-1 phones and listen to rock, jazz stuff for the most part...


 

 EML Glass ~
   
  Just a few posts earlier... this possibility from davo50.
   
  [size=medium][size=medium][size=small]Quote:[/size]


> [size=small]Originally Posted by *davo50* /img/forum/go_quote.gif[/size]
> 
> [size=small]Grab it while you can.  I am selling an EML 5U4G mesh plate priced to sell.[/size]






  ​[/size]
​[/size]


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I wonder how the HD-800 would sound on the WA-5.  I'm very tempted to buy a pair.


 

 As others have said, it sounds awesome.  Especially w/ a great DAC like the PS Audio PWD.


----------



## Silent One

WA 6 Special Edition ~
   
  Anyone know the maximum Input voltage? ______________________________
   
   
_"There is no upper input voltage limit."_
  - Woo Audio


----------



## El_Doug

Sounds like an invitation to input a 100v amplified signal, just for kicks  
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> WA 6 Special Edition ~
> 
> Anyone know the maximum Input voltage? ______________________________
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





el_doug said:


> Sounds like an invitation to input a 100v amplified signal, just for kicks


 


  After you fund this lil' exercise, you'll remember to post a pix, yes?  I originally posted that question from the lab. But now safely back inside the listening room...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Edit - error, it was a second user who posted an identical duplicate of a for sale advert for people who missed it.  Like I said, once is okay if it's relevant to the thread, and I got grumpy because I thought a for sale ad was posted twice by the seller.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> To *Davo50* - We could ignore your tube for sale ad the first time because it could be useful for Woo owners, but please don't repeatedly post SPAM for sale adverts here.  Once is enough.  Take it to the For Sale forums.


 

 Hindsight ~
   
  I take full responsibility for reposting that Ad. A fellow head-fier looking for EML Glass posted on the heels of Davo50's post and did not see it. I chose to draw his attention to it - in hindsight, I should have sent him a link via PM... which I did eventually.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hindsight ~
> 
> I take full responsibility for reposting that Ad. A fellow head-fier looking for EML Glass posted on the heels of Davo50's post and did not see it. I chose to draw his attention to it - in hindsight, I should have sent him a link via PM... which I did eventually.


 
   
  Alright, thanks.  I'll try not to be so irritable.


----------



## ardilla

Just put some cheap old sony ear-buds inti the WA2.
   
  WAAW 
   
  Anybody else having had experiences with WA2 and EAR-BUDS??


----------



## dmac03

I have actually had a lot of success playing my stock ipod headphones through my wa22. It really opens up the sound stage!


----------



## ardilla

I have (of course) started research on how to spend more money on ear-buds. 
   
  Anybody have experience with YUIN PK1 and PK2 ? 
   
   - I like the old type - no fancy rubber in my ear channels - makes my ears sore
   







   
http://www.yuin-acoustic.com/product/?id=2


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hindsight ~
> 
> I take full responsibility for reposting that Ad. A fellow head-fier looking for EML Glass posted on the heels of Davo50's post and did not see it. I chose to draw his attention to it - in hindsight, I should have sent him a link via PM... which I did eventually.


 

  That sure is a beautiful looking tube though.  Gave me the tube lust for sure.


----------



## grokit

I've also got one to sell if anyone's interested, virtually brand new.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That sure is a beautiful looking tube though.  Gave me the tube lust for sure.


 

 EML Glass
   
  Just how beautiful is EML Glass sitting inside a 'Woo?' As beautiful as an ice-cream cone during the Dog Days of August... _if not better.  _





   

 - Silent One (silent ice-cream addict)


----------



## Sesam

I received a parcel from Hong-Kong today, with what I thought was "new production" Shuguang power tubes. But clearly just from the appearance of the boxes, these were not manufactured recently, looks like these spent a few decades in a moldy warehouse


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> EML Glass
> 
> Just how beautiful is EML Glass sitting inside a 'Woo?' As beautiful as an ice-cream cone during the Dog Days of August... _if not better.  _
> 
> ...


 

 I am officially off dairy, but I get the picture!


----------



## Skylab

Sesma, I told ya there were no current production 6AS7 equivalents


----------



## jerico

skylab said:


> Sesma, I told ya there were no current production 6AS7 equivalents




Well played!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I am officially off dairy, but I get the picture!


 

  
  If I were officially off dairy, I'd need to take a huge exemption next month for back-to-back celebrations! 9 Juillet is my WA6SE's 1 Year Anniversary; 14 Juillet is Bastille Day - Champagne, cake & ice-cream for both occasions!!! 
   
  The last of my WA6SE's anniversary gifts arrives tomorrow morning - more WireWorld love (Eclipse 6 Interconnects; Twin Electra 5* Power cords/ Furutech 24k Gold connectors) and MHDT USBridge.  
   
  Sleep will be hard to come by tonight...  
   
  Post Script.: My next focus really ought to be about _Clean Power_ - I marvel at what you, WindyCityCy and others have going in that regard.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I were officially off dairy, I'd need to take a huge exemption next month for back-to-back celebrations! 9 Juillet is my WA6SE's 1 Year Anniversary; 14 Juillet is Bastille Day - Champagne, cake & ice-cream for both occasions!!!
> 
> The last of my WA6SE's anniversary gifts arrives tomorrow morning - more WireWorld love (Eclipse 6 Interconnects; Twin Electra 5* Power cords/ Furutech 24k Gold connectors) and MHDT USBridge.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm a very big believer in clean power.  When you make it over here, if you bring your stuff, we can plug it into my P5.  I think Windy has a P10 and that is supposed to be even better.
  
  I really hope the bridge works out for you and you get what you want from it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I were officially off dairy, I'd need to take a huge exemption next month for back-to-back celebrations! 9 Juillet is my WA6SE's 1 Year Anniversary; 14 Juillet is Bastille Day - Champagne, cake & ice-cream for both occasions!!!
> 
> The last of my WA6SE's anniversary gifts arrives tomorrow morning - more WireWorld love (Eclipse 6 Interconnects; Twin Electra 5* Power cords/ Furutech 24k Gold connectors) and MHDT USBridge.
> 
> ...


 
  Where is the best place to buy WireWorld stuff?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm a very big believer in clean power.  When you make it over here, if you bring your stuff, we can plug it into my P5.  I think Windy has a P10 and that is supposed to be even better.
> 
> I really hope the bridge works out for you and you get what you want from it.


 

 Thanks. The bridge should deliver, as I was looking to get away from Optical Out on the Mac ( a few short-comings). _And you know I'm looking to tap into your P5_. Here, the grid gets itself right (cleaned up) between the hours of 23:30 - 00:30 and I'll typically listen to 0300 hrs every second or third night unless I have to rise early.
   
  I have just enough calendar ahead to have all components with a minimum 200 hours burn-in. Currently, the D7000 has 264; the W4S DAC has 100 hrs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Where is the best place to buy WireWorld stuff?


 


  Aphrodite Cu29 without a doubt! (aphroditecu29.com) 
  & of course I'm biased! But the performance and song remains the same... great!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And by the way, if it gets to the point where I'm hooking up the WireWorld Power cord to the electric Tea Kettle, I will listen to my Woo mates here and put down the kool-aid._ "I A&B'd it a few times and it seemed to heat the kettle more efficiently and evenly..."_


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> To *Davo50* - We could ignore your tube for sale ad the first time because it could be useful for Woo owners, but please don't repeatedly post SPAM for sale adverts here.  Once is enough.  Take it to the For Sale forums.


 

 Um...  only posted once as many here do since it might be of interest to woo owners.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Um...  only posted once as many here do since it might be of interest to woo owners.


 

 Resolved ~
   
  My apologies to you davo50. I reposted the info to someone who may have missed it. Have since cleared up the matter with HeadphoneAddict - you are fine.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Resolved ~
> 
> My apologies to you davo50. I reposted the info to someone who may have missed it. Have since cleared up the matter with HeadphoneAddict - you are fine.


 

 Thanks silentone.  Seems to me that was obvious.  I am aware of the rules, but as I said, many members here do this since woo owners are fond of these tubes.  Thought I would give the guys here first chance.  The tube is now sold btw.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Thanks silentone.  Seems to me that was obvious.  I am aware of the rules, but as I said, many members here do this since woo owners are fond of these tubes.  Thought I would give the guys here first chance.  The tube is now sold btw.


 

 Great! Sometimes I notice when new posts are submitted, it's obvious that the poster isn't aware of a previous post. This may happen if the poster is still composing or hasn't yet submitted their entry. Falsely given the impression that some of us don't read up before posting. I tried to help out in this regard when the poster was seeking EML Glass right on the heels of your post.
   
  Still, my eyes failed me - I didn't notice the highlighted word/link in your post until after my Copy & Paste. That failure is what caused the misunderstanding... along with good intentions.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for looking after your fellow Woo mates!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Thanks silentone.  Seems to me that was obvious.  I am aware of the rules, but as I said, many members here do this since woo owners are fond of these tubes.  Thought I would give the guys here first chance.  The tube is now sold btw.


 

 I applaud posts regarding tubes for sale that may be of interest to Woo Owners because that is what this community is all about: to keep those who have Woo interests well-informed with first-hand Woo-info. Thanks for that for-sale post, davo50. Much appreciated.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I applaud posts regarding tubes for sale that may be of interest to Woo Owners because that is what this community is all about: to keep those who have Woo interests well-informed with first-hand Woo-info. Thanks for that for-sale post, davo50. Much appreciated.


 

 +1 on tube info...
   
  & great to see you in this space again, Clayton SF!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. The bridge should deliver, as I was looking to get away from Optical Out on the Mac ( a few short-comings). _And you know I'm looking to tap into your P5_. Here, the grid gets itself right (cleaned up) between the hours of 23:30 - 00:30 and I'll typically listen to 0300 hrs every second or third night unless I have to rise early.
> 
> I have just enough calendar ahead to have all components with a minimum 200 hours burn-in. Currently, the D7000 has 264; the W4S DAC has 100 hrs.


 

 How is the W4S coming along?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> How is the W4S coming along?


 


  @ 100 hours, it's on simmer. I decided against the full-on DVD assault because I wanted to observe changes in progress during burn-in. The first 50 hours aren't worth mentioning. From hours 75-100 the big shoe box has awakened! Currently, I have a wider sound stage and greater separation and detail. Much more so than the EMU.
   
  However, I can tell it's still doing whatever it is that it needs to be doing and that my sound will improve further towards 200-500 hours. For one, I am now waiting for depth. It's akin to standing at a counter waiting for service. Let's say the counter is just under a meter in width and five meters in length.
   
  I'm reading a sign straight ahead when a someone standing just behind the counter wide left/right says "we'll be right with you, sir." So, at this time I think that's the last big change I'm looking for, more depth. Coming along quite nicely... and this is with inexpensive Red & White audio cables. Can't wait to hear the Eclipse 6's!


----------



## bsaac

I just received my WA6 SE and it has given my 701's a new life
   
  Best purchase I've made in ages!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ 100 hours, it's on simmer. I decided against the full-on DVD assault because I wanted to observe changes in progress during burn-in. The first 50 hours aren't worth mentioning. From hours 75-100 the big shoe box has awakened! Currently, I have a wider sound stage and greater separation and detail. Much more so than the EMU.
> 
> However, I can tell it's still doing whatever it is that it needs to be doing and that my sound will improve further towards 200-500 hours. For one, I am now waiting for depth. It's akin to standing at a counter waiting for service. Let's say the counter is just under a meter in width and five meters in length.
> 
> I'm reading a sign straight ahead when a someone standing just behind the counter wide left/right says "we'll be right with you, sir." So, at this time I think that's the last big change I'm looking for, more depth. Coming along quite nicely... and this is with inexpensive Red & White audio cables. Can't wait to hear the Eclipse 6's!


 
  you'll be OK to listen after 200 hours.   0-100 is the biggest change but that with the DAC-2 which has different caps in it than the DAC-1.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> you'll be OK to listen after 200 hours.   0-100 is the biggest change but that with the DAC-2 which has different caps in it than the DAC-1.


 

  
  Clint informed me '200' at minimum and that it would still improve (slightly) yet after that - my spirits remain high.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bsaac said:


> I just received my WA6 SE and it has given my 701's a new life
> 
> Best purchase I've made in ages!


----------



## bsaac

Just a quick question: how long should I leave the amp off before turning it back on again?
   
  I know that some valve amps don't like to be turned off and then on again straight away


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bsaac said:


> Just a quick question: how long should I leave the amp off before turning it back on again?
> 
> I know that some valve amps don't like to be turned off and then on again straight away


 

  
  You're absolutely right and the Woo is no different. Woo Audio suggests letting the amp cool and this will vary according the environment. My own rule of thumb is one hour. This is over-the-top but then, _I'm in no hurry_. Now that you've posted, others have a chance to chime in as well...
   
  Fellow member sillysally posted some very useful info recently (see below):
   
   
 *** Yes Jack seems to build in a "soft start" with these amp. One thing to keep in mind is that if you turn off your Woo and don't let it cool down before restarting your Woo the "soft start" will not work.

 imo its very important to make sure your Woo is at room temperature before restarting it. Not only will a "hard start" shorten your Rectifier life but the rest of your tubes also.


----------



## spagetka

Congrats!
   
  AKG K701 are world class headphones with good tube amp.
   





 

  
  Quote: 





bsaac said:


> I just received my WA6 SE and it has given my 701's a new life
> 
> Best purchase I've made in ages!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> +1 on tube info...
> 
> & great to see you in this space again, Clayton SF!


 
  Thanks! I'm off to Holland again in August. Been saving money for that trip so no more toys until I get there (WHAT!). Got to sniff out some tubes/valves in Amsterdam. I've been lying low and away from amp zones just to keep from being tempted to make more purchases before this trip. But... one can only stay away for only so long. So Long!


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





bsaac said:


> I just received my WA6 SE and it has given my 701's a new life
> 
> Best purchase I've made in ages!


 


  My man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




That's is the set up I have. I love it. The only reason I'm looking for other, less expensive set ups right now is so that my WA6se and 701s don't get old! I'm looking at a Matrix amp... I have no desire to upgrade from my 6se and 701s.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're absolutely right and the Woo is no different. Woo Audio suggests letting the amp cool and this will vary according the environment. My own rule of thumb is one hour. This is over-the-top but then, _I'm in no hurry_. Now that you've posted, others have a chance to chime in as well...
> 
> Fellow member sillysally posted some very useful info recently (see below):
> 
> ...


 


 X2.


----------



## sampson_smith

Thanks for this informative slice of audio wisdom, SilentOne!  I have a WA6SE in transit to me and I intend to use it well and safely to keep it and it's tubes in good shape. 
   
  On a related note, if I may be so lazy (as I am sure that I have read the answer to this somewhere here in this gargantuan thread), what is the best way to both interupt the audio source and also switch cans with Woo amps (and all other tube amps, I assume)? In both cases, I am inclined to turn the volume all the way down then eject and switch the CD/remove the current headphone jack in exchange for another. Is this absolutely necessary? I really hope that the safest way to switch cans is not after first turning off the power. I would hate to have to wait an hour between A and B (when comparing cans). Cheers!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're absolutely right and the Woo is no different. Woo Audio suggests letting the amp cool and this will vary according the environment. My own rule of thumb is one hour. This is over-the-top but then, _I'm in no hurry_. Now that you've posted, others have a chance to chime in as well...
> 
> Fellow member sillysally posted some very useful info recently (see below):
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

I spend more time with the WA-22 and the LCD-2 recently, including rolling in 7236's in place of the 2399/5598's I was using.  I find I do slightly prefer the 7236 with the LCD-2, and used together, I find the WA-22 to sound excellent with the LCD-2.  I went back to the 5998's, and oddly enough I liked them pretty well with the WA-22 as well on the second go-around, although they are for sure bordering on too soft and warm as a pairing.  But nonetheless, I think the WA-22 is a fine amplifier for the LCD-2 with the right tubes.  After some initial reservations, I am now happy I went from the WA-2 to the WA-22.  I have ranked it slightly above the WA-2 on my tube amp list.


----------



## Wedge

Very nice Rob!  Glad your happy.  I am a little sad its gone, but it had to be.  I agree it is a fine amp for the LCD-2 and I have always felt that it was on the border, so it almost made it mood dependent for me.  I am actually very happy with the WA-5, the only problem I am presented with now is what amp to use in my work office.  As of right now, I have the Apex P/V, Leben, or WA-5 to choose from none of which I want to use at work.


----------



## shipsupt

sampson_smith said:


> Thanks for this informative slice of audio wisdom, SilentOne!  I have a WA6SE in transit to me and I intend to use it well and safely to keep it and it's tubes in good shape.
> 
> On a related note, if I may be so lazy (as I am sure that I have read the answer to this somewhere here in this gargantuan thread), what is the best way to both interupt the audio source and also switch cans with Woo amps (and all other tube amps, I assume)? In both cases, I am inclined to turn the volume all the way down then eject and switch the CD/remove the current headphone jack in exchange for another. Is this absolutely necessary? I really hope that the safest way to switch cans is not after first turning off the power. I would hate to have to wait an hour between A and B (when comparing cans). Cheers!




Turning down the gain and making your changes is fine for making your swaps. Most will agree to not to leave it for long with no headphones plugged in though. Enjoy the Woo!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I spend more time with the WA-22 and the LCD-2 recently, including rolling in 7236's in place of the 2399/5598's I was using.  I find I do slightly prefer the 7236 with the LCD-2, and used together, I find the WA-22 to sound excellent with the LCD-2.  I went back to the 5998's, and oddly enough I liked them pretty well with the WA-22 as well on the second go-around, although they are for sure bordering on too soft and warm as a pairing.  But nonetheless, I think the WA-22 is a fine amplifier for the LCD-2 with the right tubes.  After some initial reservations, I am now happy I went from the WA-2 to the WA-22.  I have ranked it slightly above the WA-2 on my tube amp list.


 

 Sky, what drivers and rectifier do you like with the LCD-2?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sky, what drivers and rectifier do you like with the LCD-2?


 

 So far I have stuck with the Syl 6SN7W and the TS 5U4G - as this was the quietest combo hum-wise (and I like both tubes anyway).


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> So far I have stuck with the Syl 6SN7W and the TS 5U4G - as this was the quietest combo hum-wise (and I like both tubes anyway).


 


 Rob, which "W"s. I have the metal base. Are there other "w"s that you like?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Aphrodite Cu29 without a doubt! (aphroditecu29.com)
> & of course I'm biased! But the performance and song remains the same... great!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I totally second that. Robert is a great guy to deal with.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Rob, which "W"s. I have the metal base. Are there other "w"s that you like?


 
   
  I like the metal base ones a lot too, but i worry about the bases breaking (which is common) so I do not use them as much - I am using the tall-bottle black-base 6SN7W.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Turning down the gain and making your changes is fine for making your swaps. Most will agree to not to leave it for long with no headphones plugged in though. Enjoy the Woo!


 
  what happens to the amp when there are no headphones plugged in for a while?
   
  Also, when it comes to the WA6SE what do folks prefer black or silver?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Um...  only posted once as many here do since it might be of interest to woo owners.


 

 I edited my original post due to the error.  Like I said in my original post the 1st time, we all seem to think that posting it once for sale is fine when it's relevant to the thread or to the users in the thread, but bumping it here isn't okay.  However, it was another user that bumped it and he left out the quotes when calling attention to it for another user, and it got confusing.  His post was removed by the poster or moderator, so it looks even more confusing now.  I'm sorry for any stress I've caused.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I spend more time with the WA-22 and the LCD-2 recently, including rolling in 7236's in place of the 2399/5598's I was using.  I find I do slightly prefer the 7236 with the LCD-2, and used together, I find the WA-22 to sound excellent with the LCD-2.  I went back to the 5998's, and oddly enough I liked them pretty well with the WA-22 as well on the second go-around, although they are for sure bordering on too soft and warm as a pairing.  But nonetheless, I think the WA-22 is a fine amplifier for the LCD-2 with the right tubes.  After some initial reservations, I am now happy I went from the WA-2 to the WA-22.  I have ranked it slightly above the WA-2 on my tube amp list.


 

 What I really like about the WA22 (and my WA6 which has a similar sound signature) is that you can completely change the sound signature from one extreme to the other with a change in tubes, to suit just about any headphone that you try with it.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So far I have stuck with the Syl 6SN7W and the TS 5U4G - as this was the quietest combo hum-wise (and I like both tubes anyway).


 

 Rob, if you know where I can find a Tung Sol 5U4G to try in place of my Sophia Princess with my WA6 would you please PM me?  I usually have to buy from eBay because I don't have a regular tube vendor that I use, and the last few times I searched i didn't find one that hadn't already sold.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Rob, if you know where I can find a Tung Sol 5U4G to try in place of my Sophia Princess with my WA6 would you please PM me?  I usually have to buy from eBay because I don't have a regular tube vendor that I use, and the last few times I searched i didn't find one that hadn't already sold.


 

 I bought all mine on eBay.  But I have a tube tester of course which helps.


----------



## CrazyRay

My new power tube.
 Sounds great!!


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Also, when it comes to the WA6SE what do folks prefer black or silver?


 


_*Silver of course.*_


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Also, when it comes to the WA6SE what do folks prefer black or silver?


 

 I just ordered mine in Silver. Was sitting on the fence going silver or black or silver or black etc.
  Decided to go with silver because I like the look of the tubes in them better, and figure that Silver is the natural colour for the metal. Why paint(?) something that looks so good. Not to say the black doesn't.
   
  I asked Jack out of interest which colour is more popular and he said it was silver.
  I did heaps of searching on this site to see what people preferred and it seems from comments that a lot of members prefer black (maybe they are just more vocal).


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I spend more time with the WA-22 and the LCD-2 recently, including rolling in 7236's in place of the 2399/5598's I was using.  I find I do slightly prefer the 7236 with the LCD-2, and used together, I find the WA-22 to sound excellent with the LCD-2.  I went back to the 5998's, and oddly enough I liked them pretty well with the WA-22 as well on the second go-around, although they are for sure bordering on too soft and warm as a pairing.  But nonetheless, I think the WA-22 is a fine amplifier for the LCD-2 with the right tubes.  After some initial reservations, I am now happy I went from the WA-2 to the WA-22.  I have ranked it slightly above the WA-2 on my tube amp list.


 

 I notice that it's tied for third place along with a few other stellar amps on that list, that's great! I do feel a bit validated re the 7236, too bad you aren't into the new issue tubes as I would love to hear your impressions on that power tube in combo with the princess-treasures but I understand how invested you are with NOS. Now that it's achieved the ranking I feel deserves it would be great to read a formal review of the WA22, any plans for that? I would think that as you continue to roll tubes that it would be pretty much writing itself, not to discount the incredible effort that you put into your always thorough and entertaining reviews. Also how does the 7236 affect the HD800's sound out of the WA22 to your ears?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> I just ordered mine in Silver. Was sitting on the fence going silver or black or silver or black etc.
> Decided to go with silver because I like the look of the tubes in them better, and figure that Silver is the natural colour for the metal. Why paint(?) something that looks so good. Not to say the black doesn't.
> 
> I asked Jack out of interest which colour is more popular and he said it was silver.
> I did heaps of searching on this site to see what people preferred and it seems from comments that a lot of members prefer black (maybe they are just more vocal).


 

 There are really only two colors; silver and dust magnet.
   
  My WA22 is black and if I had it to do over again, I'd get silver.


----------



## Skylab

I definitely prefer the HD-800 with the 5998. I have kept the 5998 in the WA22 since I plan to mostly use it with the HD-800 and T1. I use the LCD-2 with the Decware and Leben.

But a formal review isn't likely...not sure that it really adds value when the product is so well known.


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> I just ordered mine in Silver. Was sitting on the fence going silver or black or silver or black etc.
> Decided to go with silver because I like the look of the tubes in them better, and figure that Silver is the natural colour for the metal. Why paint(?) something that looks so good. Not to say the black doesn't.
> 
> I asked Jack out of interest which colour is more popular and he said it was silver.
> I did heaps of searching on this site to see what people preferred and it seems from comments that a lot of members prefer black (maybe they are just more vocal).


 


   


   I think all of the Woo amps look better in silver, and dust isn't as visible as it is on black. But the reason I ordered a black amp anyway is because of consistency, all my other audio and computer equipment is black. But also I'm obsessive about certain things, and what bothers me about silver is that there is so many different shades of it. You can have 5 different pieces of silver equipment, and they will probably all have a different shade. Black is black, so that gives me peace of mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
  Quote:


skylab said:


> Sesma, I told ya there were no current production 6AS7 equivalents


 


   
  Well it appears in the world of tubes, "New" is a very flexible term


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks! I'm off to Holland again in August. Been saving money for that trip so no more toys until I get there (WHAT!). Got to sniff out some tubes/valves in Amsterdam. I've been lying low and away from amp zones just to keep from being tempted to make more purchases before this trip. But... one can only stay away for only so long. So Long!


 

  
  You take the greatest trips! Looking forward to your safe return... _so we can check those bags.  _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> My man!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Old? You've a vacuum tube amplifier - you got to get in the hours where the gettin' gets good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I totally second that. Robert is a great guy to deal with.


 

 People matter. Online shopping has brought about an indifference to some (many?) as long as they get their price. Me? I'm a selective cat... _highly!_ If I could get my WW goodies a day sooner and a dollar cheaper from Mars, I'd still stand by and shop with my reputable and friendly dealer. Even discounters right here on Earth sometimes are a bit alien when it comes to customer support!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> what happens to the amp when there are no headphones plugged in for a while?
> 
> Also, when it comes to the WA6SE what do folks prefer black or silver?


 


  I chose black. And prefer black. But I also have criteria. When evaluating an object, art plays a major role for me. The contour of an object will help determine my choice of color (or lack thereof = black). The background of said object. And what will the chosen color for the object do for me visually & emotionally.
   
  The silver WA6 SE looks very nice and pleasing to the eye ; calming for the soul. However, the black WA6 SE looks very nice and pleasing to the eye... _but stirs me emotionally! _
   
_Post Script: To answer your first question, I'm not that curious!  _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I edited my original post due to the error.  Like I said in my original post the 1st time, we all seem to think that posting it once for sale is fine when it's relevant to the thread or to the users in the thread, but bumping it here isn't okay.  However, it was another user that bumped it and he left out the quotes when calling attention to it for another user, and it got confusing.  His post was removed by the poster or moderator, so it looks even more confusing now.  I'm sorry for any stress I've caused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Pilot error ~
   
  I don't think your post caused any stress at all - you were right to bring it to our attention. This prevents me from making the same oversight twice. And serves as a useful reminder going forward.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





crazyray said:


> My new power tube.
> Sounds great!!


 


  Talk about inspiration, this classic B&W photograph made my day! My next listening session is late night Saturday... _can't wait!!! _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> There are really only two colors; silver and dust magnet.
> 
> My WA22 is black and if I had it to do over again, I'd get silver.


 


  If I had to do it all over again, or when I purchase my WA22(?), I'd get... black.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





crazyray said:


> My new power tube.
> Sounds great!!


 

 Thanks for posting those photos!  I love that microphone!   Is that a chair in the middle?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Talk about inspiration, this classic B&W photograph made my day! My next listening session is late night Saturday... _can't wait!!! _


 
   
  Quote: 





crazyray said:


> My new power tube.
> Sounds great!!


 

 ALRIGHT. Something's amiss here._* I distinctly remembered ordering a matching pair.*_ At least this one is the metal-base version.


----------



## vinyllp33

silent one said:


> I chose black. And prefer black. But I also have criteria. When evaluating an object, art plays a major role for me. The contour of an object will help determine my choice of color (or lack thereof = black). The background of said object. And what will the chosen color for the object do for me visually & emotionally.
> 
> The silver WA6 SE looks very nice and pleasing to the eye ; calming for the soul. However, the black WA6 SE looks very nice and pleasing to the eye... _but stirs me emotionally! _
> 
> _Post Script: To answer your first question, I'm not that curious!  _




I agree, I started with a WA6 in silver, it did look really nice but no, it did not match the other two silver adjacent pieces. So for aesthetic consistency (mandatory), I went with black when I upgraded to the WA6SE. 

I feel black has been unjustly deemed a "dust magnet", it simply highlights any particulate matter on its surface, in the same environment silver will have the identical amount of dust, while still not as obvious to the eye, at least from afar, it is, in fact still present.

So black forces one to develop a more intimate relationship, if you will, with their Woo to keep it spotlessly clean at all times. Same analogy in that a freshly washed and waxed car performs better and is more fun to drive than one that is dirty.

When I got my WA5 there was no choice to be made, so it is, of course, black.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Man I'm feeling stupid! When I read that Woo's came in two finished Silver or Dust Magnet I actually thought that was a finish.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Scale this ~
   
  I agree. The increased attention I give my Woo maintenance wise has only improved my intimacy with it. What's more, I tend to live in the moment. My listening sessions come three to four nights a week. Dusting, cleaning, wiping before each session. Black Woo Audio amps may have a shorter run at looking its best. But in that short-lived moment, Silver simply can't touch it!
   
  Between the two choices it comes down to: Silver appearing to look nice over a longer period of time; Black looking the best... period, but for a limited time only. However, for me if it's Pre-owned and at the right price, I'll take either Silver or Black - Woo Audio amps are that good!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ALRIGHT. Something's amiss here._* I distinctly remembered ordering a matching pair.*_ At least this one is the metal-base version.


 


  S.F. ~
   
  The shipper failed to use environmentally friendly packaging - see Customs!


----------



## vinyllp33

Listening to the 24 bit Beatles USB Apple Stalk, newly updated Pure Muisic 1.8 (DSP off except Memory Play, Polarity and Upsampling).

The EML 5U4G has been somewhat dormant, all I will say thus far is that with the K1000 I greatly prefer the Western Electric 422A.

Once I do some further comparisons using the HE-6's I will post a mini review but there is something really special going on.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Listening to the 24 bit Beatles USB Apple Stalk, newly updated Pure Muisic 1.8 (DSP off except Memory Play, Polarity and Upsampling).
> 
> The EML 5U4G has been somewhat dormant, all I will say thus far is that with the K1000 I greatly prefer the Western Electric 422A.
> 
> Once I do some further comparisons using the HE-6's I will post a mini review but there is something really special going on.


 

 Enticing! Wish I could share an Oyster Loaf & Listening session with you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope you get all your chores done so we could get this mini review from you. In between time, perhaps you could return to Channel D for v1.8a.
   
  Just by chance, have you tried turning Upsampling off and turning on Hog mode & Integer play? Well, if your DAC supports Non-mixable streams anyways. If so, I'd like to get your feedback on that as well...


----------



## vinyllp33

I leave upsampling off as my Wadia takes care of that, but I have tried it both ways.

Hog mode engaged but alas my DAC does not support Integer Play, there is a major update in the works but they have been very vague about what the differences will be.

Being a purist I am not looking to alter the original recording so I am glad that Pure Music does not force me to do so. 

No complaints on the sound whatsoever and in my set up it has been extremely glitch free and seamless.

We just had the Oyster Fest a few weeks ago, but we always have some sort of celebration going on at any given time, and there are lots of great places to satisfy your sweet tooth!

Been really wanting to plan a meet down here, I've got the perfect location already scoped out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I leave upsampling off as my Wadia takes care of that, but I have tried it both ways.
> 
> Hog mode engaged but alas my DAC does not support Integer Play, there is a major update in the works but they have been very vague about what the differences will be.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm Creole and no offense to both my New Orleans' parents but, as an adult I had to modify my food intake. Well, if I wanted to last longer than a Western Electric tube anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm due for a short hop to NOLA between August and December (depends on my stacks - one of cash, the other of bills) and will definitely give you a call.
   
  Saturday, I finally get to test and see if my MHDT USBridge will support Integer play or not. My DAC-1 will up to 48/16 kHz, DAC-2 doesn't at all. If the MHDT does, then I'm good to 192/24 kHz. I'm so curious, I should just stay up all night!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> they are for sure bordering on too soft and warm as a pairing.


 
  You're probably sick of me by now, but just a quickie this time:  when you say soft are you referring to a lack of treble energy or a lack of articulation/resolution?  I would be okay with it being a bit muted on the top, but taking a step backwards in overall ability to resolve detail and preserve air around notes (vs the K701) would be my fear.  I've been making the assumption that the LCD-2 is in another class compared to the K701 in terms of ability to resolve detail anyway, so I figured a soft tube pairing couldn't take the headphone backwards all that much.  Would you agree with my logic Rob?  I promise I'll quit fussing over it after this.


----------



## jamesnz

hmmm I'm easily swayed. it was a fine line between silver and black. I hunted for decent photos of woo stuff in silver and black, from what I could find, the silver looked better. Considering all my audio stuff is black, i might ask Jack if it's not too late if I can change. Plus I like my stuff to be clean so dust isn't really an issue.
   
  Can anyone tell me how the black is applied? is it anodized or painted etc?
   
  Cheers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> hmmm I'm easily swayed. it was a fine line between silver and black. I hunted for decent photos of woo stuff in silver and black, from what I could find, the silver looked better. Considering all my audio stuff is black, i might ask Jack if it's not too late if I can change. Plus I like my stuff to be clean so dust isn't really an issue.
> 
> Can anyone tell me how the black is applied? is it anodized or painted etc?
> 
> Cheers.


 


  Anodized or painted ~
   
  Anodized finish per Woo Audio dot com. When it was time to order my Woo, I was also buying a new Mac mini for the new system. That it was silver never influenced my amp's decision. From the moment I spied my bank balance, I knew the amp was going to be black... _without a doubt. _It's very moving to see a black Woo Audio chassis.
   
  Honestly, once you settle into hearing some really good music (track selections) sound really good (your WA based system), it won't even matter.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You're probably sick of me by now, but just a quickie this time:  when you say soft are you referring to a lack of treble energy or a lack of articulation/resolution?  I would be okay with it being a bit muted on the top, but taking a step backwards in overall ability to resolve detail and preserve air around notes (vs the K701) would be my fear.  I've been making the assumption that the LCD-2 is in another class compared to the K701 in terms of ability to resolve detail anyway, so I figured a soft tube pairing couldn't take the headphone backwards all that much.  Would you agree with my logic Rob?  I promise I'll quit fussing over it after this.


 

  
  Insight ~
   
  The exchanges between you & Skylab has brought this thread more insight... _and more popcorn! _


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You're probably sick of me by now, but just a quickie this time:  when you say soft are you referring to a lack of treble energy or a lack of articulation/resolution?  I would be okay with it being a bit muted on the top, but taking a step backwards in overall ability to resolve detail and preserve air around notes (vs the K701) would be my fear.  I've been making the assumption that the LCD-2 is in another class compared to the K701 in terms of ability to resolve detail anyway, so I figured a soft tube pairing couldn't take the headphone backwards all that much.  Would you agree with my logic Rob?  I promise I'll quit fussing over it after this.


 

 I'm not Rob, but when I owned the WA-22, I really didn't think it was lacking in detail or air.


----------



## Skylab

xcalibur255 said:


> You're probably sick of me by now, but just a quickie this time:  when you say soft are you referring to a lack of treble energy or a lack of articulation/resolution?  I would be okay with it being a bit muted on the top, but taking a step backwards in overall ability to resolve detail and preserve air around notes (vs the K701) would be my fear.  I've been making the assumption that the LCD-2 is in another class compared to the K701 in terms of ability to resolve detail anyway, so I figured a soft tube pairing couldn't take the headphone backwards all that much.  Would you agree with my logic Rob?  I promise I'll quit fussing over it after this.




Indeed, it is not an issue of detail retrieval. It is an issue of taking a headphone which does not have an excess of re Le energy to begin with, and further reducing the overall treble energy, which can move the LCD-2 from what I normally consider an almost ideal tonal balance and shifting it to too soft and somewhat muted. 

Again, this was better with the 7236 tubes in place, to the point where I wasn't bothered by it anymore. That doesn't make the WA-22 my favorite amp for the LCD-2; in fact, it remains my least favorite of the four tube headphone amps I currently own. In fairness, though, this amps - Leben CS300XS, Decware Mini-Torii, and Trafomatic Experience Head One, are all excellent high end amps in the same class as the WA-22. But the WA-22's performance with the LCD-2 can be very good, and it performs very well with my other headphones, so it is a keeper. But were I buying a tube amp for JUST the LCD-2, it would not be the WA-22.


----------



## Icenine2

I will tell you the Silver is a dust magnet as well.  It just doesn't show as much.  I have to use one of those Swiffer feather dusters every other day.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> There are really only two colors; silver and dust magnet.
> 
> My WA22 is black and if I had it to do over again, I'd get silver.


----------



## Skylab

Clearly it is only about which shows the dust more; one color does not actually attract more dust than the other. One could argue the black is better simply because you know more readily when you need to dust the thing 

But I prefer black in any case. I like the look better.


----------



## Icenine2

The silver w/the glass elicited the response from my wife of "it (the Woo22) looks like some sort of science experiment"  and throw a mild sneer into that.  I wonder what the Mrs. will think of the Cavalli Liquid Fire when I get it: Black and red and kind of Ferrari-ish or more like Porsche Carrera-ish with the Carrera lettering on the bottom panels.


----------



## shipsupt

A tube amp with an output transformer can start to go into an internal oscillation when there is an input voltage and no load that will cause the transformer to generate high voltages that will eventually cause damage (arcing) to something in the chain, including the output transformer or tubes.
   
  While some designs (OTL, SS, or amps designed with dummy/safety loads in the circuit) should not have the same problem, its generally best practice to avoid long periods with no load connected anyway.  The same holds true for swapping inputs.  At a minimum it should avoid the possibility of a stray or transient caused during the cable swapping.
   
  As discussed recently here, dropping the input signal and volume when making swaps, and keeping a load connected is a simple practice to follow and has served many well over the years.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> what happens to the amp when there are no headphones plugged in for a while?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm Creole and no offense to both my New Orleans' parents but, as an adult I had to modify my food intake. Well, if I wanted to last longer than a Western Electric tube anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 SilentOne,
   
  Hope the bridge works out.


----------



## Sesam

How about cans with compressed air, are they safe to use on amps? I'm wondering because they appear to contain more than just air, as they are marked labelled as "highly flammable" when not dry. But I have been using those on my computer without causing an inferno... yet anyway


----------



## grokit

Just keep it upright when using it, if not the propellent could freeze and crack the glass tubes. The "pro" canned air systems let you use a hose and nozzle to accommodate this.


----------



## Icenine2

Why not just buy a nice air compressor w/an airbrush.  Just air there and you could use it to start a pin-striping business for Hot Rods.


----------



## Icenine2

Wait......pin stripes are by hand.  You could start a t-shirt business like Ed " Big Daddy " Roth used to have.  Instead of Rat Fink maybe Tube Dude or the like..............


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote:


icenine2 said:


> The silver w/the glass elicited the response from my wife of "it (the Woo22) looks like some sort of science experiment"  and throw a mild sneer into that.  I wonder what the Mrs. will think of the Cavalli Liquid Fire when I get it: Black and red and kind of Ferrari-ish or more like Porsche Carrera-ish with the Carrera lettering on the bottom panels.


 

 I am most fond of the silver finish. I love the fact that my soon-to-be-FS WA6 w/PDPS is a raw, relatively untreated block of aluminum. It may not be stainless steel, but I would not hesitate to compare it directly to the DMC Delorean, which did not have any paint application in stock form. Which strongly reminds me of this 'sort of science experiment' with tubes:
   

   
  Silver is clearly better.  But are those Black Gates I see?!


----------



## Icenine2

Sampson,
   
  Does that require a lightning storm to operate?


----------



## sampson_smith

Haha... yes, lightning storms are a prerequisite. But not a major ordeal if you have a surge protector installed!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Understood that you like the LCD-2 over the HD800.
   
  It might be a better question to ask, what's your favorite amp for the HD800? Would this change the rankings?
   
  Some might prefer the HD800 over the LCD-2, or might not own the LCD-2.


----------



## Skylab

It would change the ranking, yes. The Leben would still be tops as it is also excellent with the HD800. The the WA22, followed closely by the Trafomatic. The Mini Torii isn't designed for high impedance cans.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SilentOne,
> 
> Hope the bridge works out.


 

  
  Thanks, I really appreciate that. I just took delivery this morning. Expected delivery was Wednesday. Called USPS C/S yesterday and they basically said relax because 2-3 Day Priority Mail is not guaranteed. And since they showed it was still in transit, asked me to call Monday if not in receipt by Saturday (_excuse moi?!?!_). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm a victim of the last round of budget cuts from the Postal Service, that's exactly what this was about. Goin' with FedEx or UPS next time out. But wait! Let's get back to the box - I popped the top and there was candy galore! Splendid in all of its sweetness & copper, _mmm... yum-o! _(Silent One checks all four clocks in the listening room... "only 15:45?!)
   
  Unfortunately, I'm in my role as 'Domestique' until 20:00 hours. Can't wait!!! Gonna be a fun night!
   
  Post Script.:  To help ease the anxiety from not being able to play with my goodies right now, a quick look into the clock matter (FYI). Two clocks are set to Paris local time, then Los Angeles & San Francisco. L.A. & S.F. may share the same Pacific Standard face time. But their Sunrise/Sunset times differ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I really do appreciate the insight Rob, thank you.  I'm not married to the idea of going with the LCD-2, but it seems like the best option.  I sort of am married to the idea of doing the WA22 though, even if the pairing isn't ideal.  I was just worried about it not being a big enough step forward from what I have right now, but I think that is unlikely.  My takeaway from all the thought on the subject is I shouldn't have bought so many pairs of 5998 in advance, me thinks!  I passed up a cherry pair of 7236 too because I was convinced they would be too bright to bother trying them.
   
  I must sound rather silly, since I need to buy the setup and then listen to it to really figure these things out, but I ended up blowing all the money I saved thus far for the amp on a computer project that went way over the budget I had set for it.  So I am just over thinking the whole thing while I sit here with a case of upgradeitis I can't itch for a good while still.  Thanks for humoring me.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It would change the ranking, yes. The Leben would still be tops as it is also excellent with the HD800. The the WA22, followed closely by the Trafomatic. The Mini Torii isn't designed for high impedance cans.


 


  Again Skylab, thanks for the feedback.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bought all mine on eBay.  But I have a tube tester of course which helps.


 

 Well, the only one on eBay right now resides in Spain with $30 DHL shipping to the USA, and with 2 bids it's already at $20 and 2-days left.  I'll pass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SilentOne,
> 
> Hope the bridge works out.


 

  
  Summary ~
   
  It happened quickly... _I can't even type that fast. _After two months of tweaks gone bad, tonight I finally lowered the hood and took my rig down the street. _And into a ditch!_ Well, it took a few tracks... let me tell you the good news first. I can sum up the new sound in a single word: _Spooky. _But will volunteer a few more - hauntingly delicious! The sound stage is bigger. Wider. Deeper. All in a good way.
   
  First I played "Golden Girl" by Al Jarreau. Both chorus and lead vocals had me looking around the listening room. Because following them became an exercise in concentration - I was hearing low-level details ain't never heard before. Or they suddenly became easier to decipher. 
   
  Then there was B.B.King's "Ask Me No Questions." The room got eerily bigger yet, piano, guitar and drums filled in the space no problem. When Lucille got warm (his guitar), I was done! Had to hit replay a few times all the while grinning. Just before the ditch, I launched "I Don't Wanna Lose Your Love" by The Emotions. The female group is backed by Earth, Wind & Fire - playing tight! And the ladies have vocals of liquid honey, especially on this track. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And yes, the bridge supports Integer mode play in both Pure Music & Audirvana and sounds great! Or it's great as an option because with my diverse library, some tracks sound better with it on, others with it off and up-sampled. Nice to have flexibility. I'll be quick to add all ain't Peaches & Cream... _not so fast Silent One! _The treble can be harsh in some passages. Sometimes the Rhythm section becomes too muted. And the bass is lighter than I'd prefer most of the time.
   
  But it is early - DAC only has 100 hours on it. And both power cords, digital coax, bridge and analogue interconnects are all new! I should be fine in 21 days/200 hours. It sounds very promising and I like that! Oh, and the ditch?! MHDT dropped support for 176.4 kHz playback - never  disclosed this on their website. I only found out tonight after handful of exchanges between Cali & Taiwan. Nor will the driver allow playback of 176.4 files down-sampled to 88.2 kHz.
   
  I'm now twice bitten over the same device. When MHDT decided not to reply to a couple of emails asking for help in May, I returned the unit to ALO Audio, losing money over shipping & restocking fees. Now I've the same problem and now discover the truth. They were apologetic and will make things right for me in the future ( I accept). I just would like to see manufactures/dealers be upfront - customers can be supportive and give firms a chance to work things out.
   
  In my case, non-disclosure prevented me from buying another bridge that would support 176.4 kHz. Lastly, MHDT did a good job explaining their dilemma, the reason for dropping 176.4 kHz and issuing an apology. I am fine with them - mistakes happen and will happen. But it's how we choose to respond that could help or hurt the buyer, seller or industry. And I'm all about supporting this boutique hobby we're into.
   
  I look forward to packing and coming to see you in a few weeks! Have yourself a most brilliant Sunday!


----------



## Icenine2

How stupid I am.  I'm listening The Police Synchronicity and it sounds like hell.  Soundstage all wrong and I'm thinking "what's going on here?"  Turns out my Telsa T-1's I had on wrong so the drivers were aiming the wrong way etc!!  Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jonnyhambone

I am about 85 hours into burn-in on the WA 6se.  Quite awesome!...I'm about to order one of the new EML 5u4g mesh plates for it and have feelers out on some Sylvania 6ew7's...  Driving my HF-1's (and prob. BeyerDynamic dt880's as my next cans).  Any other suggestions or reasons to reconsider these tubes?  lovin' it so far.


----------



## PanamaRed

Wow, I'd really like to take a listen to those other amps you mentioned. I simply love the LCD-2 and WA22 combination and would love to hear them at their full(er) potential. I'm very curious how you would rate the LCD-2's with the CSP2 vs the WA22.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Summary ~
> 
> It happened quickly... _I can't even type that fast. _After two months of tweaks gone bad, tonight I finally lowered the hood and took my rig down the street. _And into a ditch!_ Well, it took a few tracks... let me tell you the good news first. I can sum up the new sound in a single word: _Spooky. _But will volunteer a few more - hauntingly delicious! The sound stage is bigger. Wider. Deeper. All in a good way.
> 
> ...


 

 Really glad to hear the DAC is sounding good.  Also glad to hear the bridge is sort of working out, although with 176.4 problems.  I understand how frustrating it can feel with manufacturers withholding information they know very well will impact their users, but they are silent hoping nobody will notice. 
   
  Would 176 have made a difference if you had the W4S 2 instead of the 1?  What is it about 176 that you like?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Really glad to hear the DAC is sounding good.  Also glad to hear the bridge is sort of working out, although with 176.4 problems.  I understand how frustrating it can feel with manufacturers withholding information they know very well will impact their users, but they are silent hoping nobody will notice.
> 
> Would 176 have made a difference if you had the W4S 2 instead of the 1?  What is it about 176 that you like?


 


  No difference in regard to sample rates between DAC-1 & DAC-2. Both units have the same toslink & coax interface. They only differ at USB - Asynchronous 48/16 kHz & 96/24 kHz vs 192/24 kHz.. The issue is with the proprietary driver by MHDT; W4S will play what you throw at it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Of the six sample rates from the C-Media driver used by MHDT, 176.4 kHz was originally supported but was removed because it sounded inferior to the other sample rates. 176.4 kHz was harder for C-Media driver 6631 to get right on the Mac. Windows & Linux have their own realities.
   
  Not in love with 176.4 kHz sample rate... save that some of the high resolution downloads are at that rate. This could be due to material coming from SACD/DSD transfers which have native PCM sample rates of 176.4 & 88.2 kHz. Though many of the music studios in the last few years have been archiving their masters @ 96/24 kHz. 
   
  MHDT will have a new driver for the Mac in 2 months for better 88.2 kHz support to handle the down-sampling of 176.4 kHz. Meanwhile, I just up-sample to 192 kHz and sleep just as well. Simply want stuff to work as designed...
   
  Post Script.:  @ 120 hours, my love for the W4S DAC is coming on just like the calm before the storm. The only _Cover_ I need to take is the linen one off the Woo each night for reverie renewed.


----------



## Wedge

Amazing, a friend at work gave me a GZ34 today.  Mullard branded Phillips Mini Watt Metal Base, which seems to be unused and looks like goes for over $500 at tubeworld!  Very cool.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Amazing, a friend at work gave me a GZ34 today.  Mullard branded Phillips Mini Watt Metal Base, which seems to be unused and looks like goes for over $500 at tubeworld!  Very cool.


 


  Yes, indeed...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Amazing, a friend at work gave me a GZ34 today.  Mullard branded Phillips Mini Watt Metal Base, which seems to be unused and looks like goes for over $500 at tubeworld!  Very cool.


 

 This makes me wonder where you work.


----------



## vinyllp33

wedge said:


> Amazing, a friend at work gave me a GZ34 today.  Mullard branded Phillips Mini Watt Metal Base, which seems to be unused and looks like goes for over $500 at tubeworld!  Very cool.



Wow! 

What a great way to start the week.

Now you just need to find one more benevolent acquaintance and you will be all set for your WA5.

Sometimes it just takes getting the word out that you're "that tube guy" and you never know what then may come your way. I do this with records too.


----------



## FlyingBear

While not strictly on topic, i thought that you might enjoy a photo that I took in my office listening room last weekend....full of tubey goodness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The item on top of the rack almost looks like something that our friends at Woo Audio would make.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Amazing, a friend at work gave me a GZ34 today.  Mullard branded Phillips Mini Watt Metal Base, which seems to be unused and looks like goes for over $500 at tubeworld!  Very cool.


 

 I sold one of those that was fairly well used for about $150, so free is even better.


----------



## vinyllp33

FlyingBear you are indeed Nagra to the extreme.

I have been really wanting to hear their new 300B amp, I just love the VPA's. 

Awesome!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> While not strictly on topic, i thought that you might enjoy a photo that I took in my office listening room last weekend....full of tubey goodness
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


_Enough eye-candy there for a toothache! _In the event you ever need to visit the office after hours, how 'bout a night shot?! The stage lighting suggests it's appreciated around the clock.


----------



## FlyingBear

Will do. I'll be back there the weekend after next. It _does_ look very tasty in the dark; although the 300Bs don't glow much, the 845s do! Being able to use the listening room in off-hours and weekends is a major treat; it's stuffed full of goodies, including some fabulous sources. No headphones, though....
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Enough eye-candy there for a toothache! _In the event you ever need to visit the office after hours, how 'bout a night shot?! The stage lighting suggests it's appreciated around the clock.


----------



## vinyllp33

Yes, the thoriated cathodes of the 845's can really light up a room.

I read on Nagra's website that the 300B amp can handle any load; if it meet with their approval I bet a pair of HE6's would sound heavenly off the speaker taps.


----------



## FlyingBear

I'll ask the amp's designer when I see him next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I won't try the IEMs that I travel with, though.....
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Yes, the thoriated cathodes of the 845's can really light up a room.
> 
> I read on Nagra's website that the 300B amp can handle any load; if it meet with their approval I bet a pair of HE6's would sound heavenly off the speaker taps.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No difference in regard to sample rates between DAC-1 & DAC-2. Both units have the same toslink & coax interface. They only differ at USB - Asynchronous 48/16 kHz & 96/24 kHz vs 192/24 kHz.. The issue is with the proprietary driver by MHDT; W4S will play what you throw at it.


 

 There is one sonic difference between the DAC-1 and the DAC-2 which are the Low ESR Super-Caps in the DAC-2.


----------



## grokit

Please tell us about the pyramid on the bottom!
   
  Yamaha use to make a pyramid power amp but that ain't it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> There is one sonic difference between the DAC-1 and the DAC-2 which are the Low ESR Super-Caps in the DAC-2.


 

 Low ESR Super-Caps ~
   
  Noted! At $150, I've already got that upgrade down. However, for the sake of clarity, I spoke to both units sharing the same Inputs (Toslink & Coax) at the same resolutions 96 kHz & 192 kHz respectively. Technically, Toslink should be able to go up to 170 kHz appx but that still falls short of 176.4 khz, so... 96 kHz it is. The siblings share a lot more than that under the hood... I've looked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What now has me excited about the DAC-2 (or getting spec'd to DAC-2 standards) is the i2s input. Their version of i2s is not standard so if your front-end or say, M2Tech Evo has i2s output, you'd need to send your component to W4S for matching. I've read it's worth the pursuit!
   
  What are you listening to right now? It may be 0200 hours but Thelonious Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" has my foot moving under the desk!


----------



## Silent One

Showcase ~
   
  For those of us enjoying our Woo through computer-based audio, something of interest to showcase that Woo Audio amp. There are other titles; below is but one example: (http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FAUSB001)


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Wow!
> 
> What a great way to start the week.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Yeah, it was definitely a highlight of yesterday, but coupled with one of my earpieces on my UE18s shattering yesterday, I guess my karma meter is still in balance.


----------



## Icenine2

Bear,
   
  Beyond impressive.  What speakers do you run w/this?
  
  Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> While not strictly on topic, i thought that you might enjoy a photo that I took in my office listening room last weekend....full of tubey goodness
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sesam

WOOO!!!!!!! the FedEx dude just now delivered my WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm sure this is a newbie question, but I didn't find anything about it on the forums. Anyway the stock 6080WC tubes that were included have tape wrapped around the base, what is the deal with that?. Are these repaired, or have they been manufactured like that?. And is it safe to remove the visible parts of the tape (because it doesn't look nice)?


----------



## FlyingBear

It's a Nagra PSA (Pyramid Stereo Amp), one of Nagra's solid-state amps. There's also the PMA (Pyramid Monoblock Amp), but you need two of those...
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Please tell us about the pyramid on the bottom!
> 
> Yamaha use to make a pyramid power amp but that ain't it.


----------



## FlyingBear

The room has several sets of speakers, but my preferred are the Verity Lohengrins. Terrific presence and soundstage, incredible efficiency: 1W is enough to drive them to reasonable levels.

 Just to be clear: while I would gladly donate a minor redundant organ to have this setup at home, this is the demo setup at, ahem, my office. The audio business is a small component of my company's business, but one close to my heart. We have two demo rooms: this one is as close to a home setup as possible, except that it's crammed with sources and multiple amp/speaker combos. It's most like a high-end audio dealer's room, albeit a dealer that carries only one brand. The only thing missing is a USB DAC; I'm seriously considering buying a small portable one so that I can listen to my HDTracks material off my laptop. Hauling my W4S DAC-2 around isn't an option. The other room is more of a science lab, run by one of the audio business' great geniuses; it's less approachable, but has more interesting toys.
   
  It's a privilege to listen to equipment made by people with immense passion for what they do. That's why I'm looking forward to receiving my Woo amp....real soon now.
   
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Bear,
> 
> Beyond impressive.  What speakers do you run w/this?


----------



## Icenine2

No these aren't repaired and DON'T TAKE THE TAPE OFF!!!!!  I admit mine look a tad prettier in the tape dept but not by much. Consult Skylab, Silly Sally, or throngs of others on tube idiosyncrasies.  
   
  Quote: 





sesam said:


> WOOO!!!!!!! the FedEx dude just now delivered my WA22
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> No these aren't repaired and DON'T TAKE THE TAPE OFF!!!!!  I admit mine look a tad prettier in the tape dept but not by much. Consult Skylab, Silly Sally, or throngs of others on tube idiosyncrasies.


 

  Ok thanks, I will try to resist the temptation to tamper with the tape. But now you made me really curious about the tapes origin/purpose


----------



## brasewel

Damm, that setup looked godlike FlyingBear. That pyramid amp reminded me of the Pyramid speakers JBL was manufacturing a few years ago.


----------



## grokit

My Sylvania 7236 tubes have metal bases but no tape.


----------



## KZCloud89

Haha I've never seen tubes with tapes on before.


----------



## sampson_smith

Yeah... me too. I am very curious to know what its purpose is.


----------



## Sesam

I have to say that so far I'm extremely satisfied with the WA22, the build quality was just as good as it looked on the pictures. And I have been re-discovering music all day. This is also the first time I get to properly listen to something this "high-end", and it is interesting to compare to my little LC3 tube amp. 
  
  Quote: 





kzcloud89 said:


> Haha I've never seen tubes with tapes on before.


 


  Lucky me, I got the super rare tape base edition. The tape gives the tube a nice and varm sound.. I guess


----------



## Skylab

I have never ever seen tape like that on a tube, and I have bought thousands of tubes.  I would ask Woo about it.


----------



## Silent One

I see a relationship between structural integrity and handling. If the glass is to fail due to stress/handling, guess where it's going to separate? I've seen big industrial light bulbs packed and shipped this way in times past.


----------



## Icenine2

My tubes have the same tape.  It's actually a nylon type material.  I'd have to believe it was either and insulator or dampener.  Either way my exact same tubes have it and have been functioning perfectly the past six months.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> My tubes have the same tape.  It's actually a nylon type material.  I'd have to believe it was either and insulator or dampener.  Either way my exact same tubes have it and have been functioning perfectly the past six months.


 

 Sometimes it's tweaks that literally hold this hobby together...


----------



## jerico

Same - I have 2 pairs of Sylvania 7236s (one from Woo, one not) and none of them has tape...


----------



## Icenine2

Well I just pulled my tubes out and looked at the "tape".  I poked around a bit and it was loose then just sank into the metal bottom between the glass and it.  So either they weren't removed or everyone has them and they are sitting at the bottom like mine (and yours I suspect after reading this).
  Quote: 





sesam said:


> WOOO!!!!!!! the FedEx dude just now delivered my WA22
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

I have about 10 tubes with tape around them. It looks more like grosgrain ribbon fabric than paper tape though. Here's 5 of them. The milk white ones are bad and had to be tossed. They were shipped that way. They all were described as NOS. Two of them look used because the tape is discolored compared to the others. The seller refunded the money for the two defective ones. He said that he didn't check them before he shipped them. He's checking them now.


----------



## nututubes

Has anyone had experience with this GEC BL 63. It's on eBay and is said to have 12 less gain than a 6SN7. Translation issue maybe?
  Anyway, it looks very interesting with the Marconi label and all.
  I can't insert the image or it's URL but here's a link to the ad:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250842533989&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_1575wt_909


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Has anyone had experience with this GEC BL 63. It's on eBay and is said to have 12 less gain than a 6SN7. Translation issue maybe?
> Anyway, it looks very interesting with the Marconi label and all.
> I can't insert the image or it's URL but here's a link to the ad:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250842533989&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_1575wt_909


----------



## PanamaRed

Wow those are beauties.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


>


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Has anyone had experience with this GEC BL 63. It's on eBay and is said to have 12 less gain than a 6SN7. Translation issue maybe?
> Anyway, it looks very interesting with the Marconi label and all.
> I can't insert the image or it's URL but here's a link to the ad:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250842533989&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_1575wt_909


 

 Pass.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Wow those are beauties.


 

 x2.


----------



## nanaholic

I received my WA6 with the Sophia tube yesterday and just as a lot of people have attested (including Jack himself) - this pairs *really* well with the K701.  
   
  With the Burson everything on the K701 is crystal clear and very analytical  - for better or worst - and sometimes you want that clarity but sometimes you also don't depending on source, mood, etc.  On the WA6 it's a tad smoother, clarity is not as high as the Burson but that makes it a lot more forgiving for poorer recordings thus makes the listening experience a bit more enjoyable.  OTOH I didn't find the W1000x had anything to gain from the tube sound, which I guess is to be expected for such an easy phone to drive to its full potential.  For the first time after my W1000x purchase two months ago (thus probably still in my honey moon period) I actually found myself reaching for the K701 and didn't want to swap back until the K701 headbands started to dug into my skull after about 3 hours, at which point I reluctantly swapped back to the W1000x.
   
  I can see myself in the short term with the W1000x being pair exclusively with my Burson while the K701 living with the WA6.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Going with a tube to compliment the SS Burson is great, I think now I have a "best of both worlds" setup which allows me to mix and match and experiment with.


----------



## PanamaRed

Congrats on the Woo!
  Quote: 





nanaholic said:


> I received my WA6 with the Sophia tube yesterday and just as a lot of people have attested (including Jack himself) - this pairs *really* well with the K701.


----------



## Sesam

Do you people with a WA22 and T1 headphones have the amp set on high or low gain?. I noticed that the manual says that you can use whatever setting sounds best with the headphones, I tried it out but it is a tough call, the difference in volume clouds my judgement.


----------



## PanamaRed

My personal preference is low gain. I love the T1 and 22 combo.
  
  Quote: 





sesam said:


> Do you people with a WA22 and T1 headphones have the amp set on high or low gain?. I noticed that the manual says that you can use whatever setting sounds best with the headphones, I tried it out but it is a tough call, the difference in volume clouds my judgement.


----------



## grokit

There is no gain switch on the WA22, it's an impedance switch.


----------



## tupac0306

Sorry about this random question. Can somebody tell me what difference do you expect to hear when you listen with a WA 6 SE (than just with a DAC)? What specific thing I should be looking for? warmer smoother sound? more defined bass? or what? Cuz I dun hear much difference (apart from the volume difference well of course). I listen with T1/LCD 2/Ed.8.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





grokit said:


> There is no gain switch on the WA22, it's an impedance switch.


 


  Right, and for the T1 it should be set to high.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No difference in regard to sample rates between DAC-1 & DAC-2. Both units have the same toslink & coax interface. They only differ at USB - Asynchronous 48/16 kHz & 96/24 kHz vs 192/24 kHz.. The issue is with the proprietary driver by MHDT; W4S will play what you throw at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Really glad to hear the W4S DAC is working out.  I think actually that the DAC may be the single most important piece of equipment in the chain. 
   
  Getting close to looking at the Bryston media player.


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





grokit said:


> There is no gain switch on the WA22, it's an impedance switch.


 


  Oh right I mean impedance 


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right, and for the T1 it should be set to high.


 


  Well that's what I also assumed, as it's an high impedance headphone. But from the manual I got the impression that it isn't necessarily  that clear cut, and it's a matter of taste?


----------



## PanamaRed

Yes, I stand corrected.
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> There is no gain switch on the WA22, it's an impedance switch.


 

 By "should" is that personal preference or the result of some mathematical formula i will not be able to wrap my un-mathematical mind around?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


skylab said:


> Right, and for the T1 it should be set to high.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Yes, I stand corrected.
> 
> By "should" is that personal preference or the result of some mathematical formula i will not be able to wrap my un-mathematical mind around?
> 
> ...


 

 It's actually directly from the WA22 manual:
   
  "HI is high impedance output for 60 ohms or above. LO is for low."
   
  Having said that consensus seems to be that the 50 ohm LCD-2 sounds better on the high setting


----------



## Sesam

The part in the manual that made me confused is under the FAQ section:
   
  "Do I have to use the correct impedance setting for my headphone?
 No, you can use any setting for any headphone as long as you feel it sounds the best for
 you."
   
  I'm probably reading  too much into things, I took this as an encouragement to test both settings regardless of the headphone specs


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sesam said:


> The part in the manual that made me confused is under the FAQ section:
> 
> "Do I have to use the correct impedance setting for my headphone?
> No, you can use any setting for any headphone as long as you feel it sounds the best for
> ...


 

 That is right.  Mostly I listen with the low setting on my HD800's, and yet they are a high impedance headphone.  It just depends on what sounds better to you.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Yes, I stand corrected.
> 
> By "should" is that personal preference or the result of some mathematical formula i will not be able to wrap my un-mathematical mind around?


 

 I believe that having a high impedance loud on the low impedance transformer winding COULD put undue strain on the output transformer.  That's true in general, not sure whether it is an issue with the WA22 or not.  From Sesam's post it sounds like it is not.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sesam said:


> The part in the manual that made me confused is under the FAQ section:
> 
> "Do I have to use the correct impedance setting for my headphone?
> No, you can use any setting for any headphone as long as you feel it sounds the best for
> ...


 

 You're not reading too much into things - this is the wisdom of 'Woo.' Besides, what kind of hokey operation....er...hobby would Audio be if it didn't encourage the play, experimentation and creativity from its participants? Back to Woo Audio. They understand we hear with more than our ears and that there's also an environmental factor as well.
   
  And if this weren't enough, we all have different sizes and shapes of ear canals, which by the way, will fluctuate with large weight loss/weight gain (Pay attention IEM users w/custom ear molds!).  Despite the appearance, this really is just a reply not a PSA. But DO take the opportunity to book your Audiologist this summer!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Really glad to hear the W4S DAC is working out.  I think actually that the DAC may be the single most important piece of equipment in the chain.
> 
> Getting close to looking at the Bryston media player.


 


  At this writing, I'm not well read on the Bryston Media Player. But I've become aware from a wide variety of sources that Bryston makes good gear. Hope it satisfies your networking requirements.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nanaholic said:


> didn't want to swap back until the K701 headbands started to dug into my skull after about 3 hours


 

  
  Oddly enough about 3 years into my ownership of this headphone this stopped being a problem.  I can't remember the last time the headband caused those needle like pains on my head.  Perhaps my scalp just got tougher in that spot?  I *do* seem to become more thick headed by the day.


----------



## Silent One

RFI/EMI Noise Suppression Caps ~
   
  Any of you have caps installed on your Woo, DAC and source for unused RCA/XLR inputs? Peace of mind or have you noticed a difference? Thanks...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> At this writing, I'm not well read on the Bryston Media Player. But I've become aware from a wide variety of sources that Bryston makes good gear. Hope it satisfies your networking requirements.


 

 Last month's Stereophile had a review.  Other than that, just the usual press release stuff out there.  It's brand new so not much out there yet.  Audio Advisor sells them and I am looking into their return police to make sure I can return the unit no questions asked if I do not like its audio.
   
  Also, have you read/heard anything about the Wadia i171 the new release of the i170?  Supposed to have a better power supply and better components, but I'm reluctant to make any changes now that everything has settled down and is sounding very good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Last month's Stereophile had a review.  Other than that, just the usual press release stuff out there.  It's brand new so not much out there yet.  Audio Advisor sells them and I am looking into their return police to make sure I can return the unit no questions asked if I do not like its audio.
> 
> Also, have you read/heard anything about the Wadia i171 the new release of the i170?  Supposed to have a better power supply and better components, but I'm reluctant to make any changes now that everything has settled down and is sounding very good.


 


  I know electronics are a bit different but, they (Audio Advisor) seem to have a very good 30-day return policy on the few things I spied there. I also was allowed to return a Cryogenic IEC-7 adapter after obtaining an RMA on day 31 in a 30 Day month - they were very good to me over the phone... "Don't worry about it. Please copy this number down, sir."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Post Script.:  Just did a quick review of their return policy... _you're good, no questions asked! _ As long as the three to four pieces of criteria is met.
   
  Funny thing about upgrades - while awaiting their shipment, _I read everything audio_. And when I finally take delivery? (Silent One grins broadly) Looks like the Bryston & Wadia articles will make for good after dinner reading this evening...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know electronics are a bit different but, they (Audio Advisor) seem to have a very good 30-day return policy on the few things I spied there. I also was allowed to return a Cryogenic IEC-7 adapter after obtaining an RMA on day 31 in a 30 Day month - they were very good to me over the phone... "Don't worry about it. Please copy this number down, sir."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Check this out - modifications to the Wadia i170: http://www.asi-tek.com/wadia2.html


----------



## PanamaRed

Just got my adapter from Glenn and have started my journey into 6F8G's.
   
  These Ken-Rads are sounding awesome. Now i'm waiting on some Raytheon and Sylvania VT-99's.


----------



## nanaholic

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Oddly enough about 3 years into my ownership of this headphone this stopped being a problem.  I can't remember the last time the headband caused those needle like pains on my head.  Perhaps my scalp just got tougher in that spot?  I *do* seem to become more thick headed by the day.


 

 The problem is that the 3D wings on the W1000x is just really comfortable and I've been using that pair exclusively every day since I bought them.  Also I think my hair is thinning up there which means I'm getting less cushioning effect.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Just got my adapter from Glenn and have started my journey into 6F8G's.
> 
> These Ken-Rads are sounding awesome. Now i'm waiting on some Raytheon and Sylvania VT-99's.


 
  Those 6F8Gs are beautiful looking tubes.  So much more presence than the tiny straight bottle 6SN7, but the necessary grid cap wire sort of spoils the looks for me.  If I didn't already own round plate tung sols I would probably pick up the 6F8G version though.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Getting close to looking at the Bryston media player.





   
  Mike, have you ever checked out the MS750?

  http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/108mac/
  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1312575376


----------



## Silent One

If I were in the market for a server and could afford it, I'd bring it home. _There's something about McIntosh... _however, it'd likely be a pure luxury buy to go with all the other McIntosh gear I'd likely own. Other options could be had cheaper with more focus on, well, _serving. _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Check this out - modifications to the Wadia i170: http://www.asi-tek.com/wadia2.html


 


  We checked it out like a school kid peepin' through the store-front window during holiday season! Looks like you might even have it in play by the time I get there. It's nice to know you've got options if you stay the course with Wadia...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Just got my adapter from Glenn and have started my journey into 6F8G's.
> 
> These Ken-Rads are sounding awesome. Now i'm waiting on some Raytheon and Sylvania VT-99's.


 


 I would ask Glenn just to be sure, but it looks to me like you have two right handed adapters. The one on the left should have the wire on the other side (the opposite of the one on the right).  Unless of course that's how you ordered them.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I would ask Glenn just to be sure, but it looks to me like you have two right handed adapters. The one on the left should have the wire on the other side (the opposite of the one on the right).  Unless of course that's how you ordered them.


 

 X2, you will heard slight hum on the left channel.  Did you tell Glenn it is for WA22?


----------



## Skylab

Yeah you want to keep the grid cap wire away from the 5998's for sure.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


grokit said:


> Mike, have you ever checked out the MS750?
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/108mac/
> http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1312575376


 

 You are a bad man, Grokit! 
  
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> We checked it out like a school kid peepin' through the store-front window during holiday season! Looks like you might even have it in play by the time I get there. It's nice to know you've got options if you stay the course with Wadia...


 

 I really like the Wadia i170 as it turns my iPod into my media server, and if I stay with it, I may get one of those mods.  I spoke with the guy last night and he says that the new Wadia i171 has circuitry to better deal with the iPad.  After the call my thinking was that if I stay with the iPod, I'll probably have one of his mods done.  However, I really want to get out of the walled Apple garden, and if I can find a piece of hardware that will play higher rez music, the iPod has no place other than for portability.  It may be that the Bryston will replace the iPod/i170 combination.  I have a nibble on my PWD from a fellow head-fi'er and if (when!!!!) it gets sold, I'll move on the Bryston.


----------



## Icenine2

W4S DAC2 is your answer.
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Last month's Stereophile had a review.  Other than that, just the usual press release stuff out there.  It's brand new so not much out there yet.  Audio Advisor sells them and I am looking into their return police to make sure I can return the unit no questions asked if I do not like its audio.
> 
> Also, have you read/heard anything about the Wadia i171 the new release of the i170?  Supposed to have a better power supply and better components, but I'm reluctant to make any changes now that everything has settled down and is sounding very good.


----------



## PanamaRed

Thanks guys. It was my fault for not making that aware to Glenn but the guy is so awesome he is letting me swap one.
   
  Just a quick question for you WA22 owners... what position do you guys normally listen to with either the HD800 or LCD-2?
   
  I have my W4S DAC-2 turned all the way up and it seems like I have to crank the woo pretty high.
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I would ask Glenn just to be sure, but it looks to me like you have two right handed adapters. The one on the left should have the wire on the other side (the opposite of the one on the right).  Unless of course that's how you ordered them.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Thanks guys. It was my fault for not making that aware to Glenn but the guy is so awesome he is letting me swap one.
> 
> Just a quick question for you WA22 owners... what position do you guys normally listen to with either the HD800 or LCD-2?
> 
> I have my W4S DAC-2 turned all the way up and it seems like I have to crank the woo pretty high.


 

 Depends on power tube, usually between 9-11, rarely at 12.


----------



## Icenine2

The W4S DAC2 should be set at Fixed for volume (did you read the setup instructions?  Not criticizing, just wondering).  For my J River player out I use kernel streaming.  I have T-1's, always use the High setting because that is what it's for.  If I really turned it up I'd blow my eardrums right out of my head.  I rarely turn it up past 12 o'clock because it is loud at that setting.  Sometimes higher on older recordings to compensate.


----------



## PanamaRed

Hmm... That's what I thought. No matter the power tube i'm usually in the 2-3 area.
   
  9-11 is definetely audible but 2-3 is at my desired decibel level.
   
  At 9-11 is it loud or just comfortable?
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Depends on power tube, usually between 9-11, rarely at 12.


----------



## PanamaRed

It's set at Fixed with 0 as minimum as the instructions indicate, but I would not call it exceptionally "loud"
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> The W4S DAC2 should be set at Fixed for volume (did you read the setup instructions?  Not criticizing, just wondering).  For my J River player out I use kernel streaming.  I have T-1's, always use the High setting because that is what it's for.  If I really turned it up I'd blow my eardrums right out of my head.  I rarely turn it up past 12 o'clock because it is loud at that setting.  Sometimes higher on older recordings to compensate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> You are a bad man, Grokit!
> 
> ...


 


  Now I'm with you! I had been under the impression that you preferred the iPod for its duality - mobile to house. The Wadia definitely affords you the drop-in factor. It'd be great to see you get over the wall and into a music server. May your PWD find happiness in another home.


----------



## PanamaRed

I found an old (and probably crappy) decibel meter.
   
  Using GEC 6080s, these were my readings:
   
  At 9:00   about  72 db
  At 12:00 about  80 db
  At 3:00  about   90 db
   
  Do these readings sound normal?
   
  Note: My usual favorite spot is around 1:30 and measures about 86 db


----------



## mikemalter

>


 
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Thanks guys. It was my fault for not making that aware to Glenn but the guy is so awesome he is letting me swap one.
> 
> Just a quick question for you WA22 owners... what position do you guys normally listen to with either the HD800 or LCD-2?
> 
> I have my W4S DAC-2 turned all the way up and it seems like I have to crank the woo pretty high.


 

 I'm using an HD800 and my impedence is set to low and I usually listen at two clicks, sometimes three.  My tube set is GEC 6AS7G for power, TungSol 6NS7 for driver and an EML rectifier.  With my LCD2's I about two more clicks.


----------



## Skylab

PanamaRed, which headphones was that with?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> W4S DAC2 is your answer.


 

 Well, not exactly, but I do appreciate the thought. 
   
  I am looking for a dedicated higher end media player and am thinking about the BDP-1.  One of the reasons I like the Bryston is because it's OS is just there to run the soundcard and the interface to it.  The digital side of the unit has its own power supply, and the analog side of the unit has its own power supply.
   
  This link has a video that explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Va48TXGrI.
   
  As for DAC's - right now I am ok with my DLIII, but am very interested in the W4S.  I think before I get into upgrading my DAC, I'm going to snag a used PS Audio phono stage with the Cullen modifications so I can get my vinyl into the mix.
   
  How are you liking your W4S DAC?


----------



## PanamaRed

HD800s,
   
  I'm now trying the T1s
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> PanamaRed, which headphones was that with?


----------



## PanamaRed

With the T1s:
  9:00   -   70db
  12:00 -   82db
  3:00   -   94db
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> HD800s,
> 
> I'm now trying the T1s


----------



## Skylab

That seems low. I would think you could get both of those headphones much louder than that with those volume control settings, but maybe your source voltage is low?


----------



## PanamaRed

I'm no expert but I think it may be the amp. I've tried both my w4s and matrix mini-i, balanced and unbalanced, and i'm getting the same volume levels.
   
  Is there an internal part of the amp when broken that could account for this lack of volume?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> That seems low. I would think you could get both of those headphones much louder than that with those volume control settings, but maybe your source voltage is low?


----------



## Skylab

It's possible that it could be tube related. Do you have different driver tubes you can try?


----------



## PanamaRed

Yes, I have some CBS/Hytrons 5692s in there right now.
   
  I can go to stock tubes, Ken Rads vt-231, Tung Sols BGRP, mouse ears, or Tung Sol 6sn7gta
  
  I can try seeing if that makes a difference. I am under the impression however that the sound levels have been relatively the same for me since I got the amp.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's possible that it could be tube related. Do you have different driver tubes you can try?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That seems low. I would think you could get both of those headphones much louder than that with those volume control settings, but maybe your source voltage is low?


 
   
  [size=small]DAC-2 specs.   I hope this isn't too small to read I couldn't get it much bigger.[/size]
   
   
 *Specifications*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I'm no expert but I think it may be the amp. I've tried both my w4s and matrix mini-i, balanced and unbalanced, and i'm getting the same volume levels.
> 
> Is there an internal part of the amp when broken that could account for this lack of volume?


 


  When Skylab suggested your source voltage might be low, I was hoping to learn what you're feeding the DACs and you could check that. I'd also check the digital interconnect from front-end > W4S/MM, as well as the analogue interconnects. Measuring the voltage outputs on one or both DACs should shed more light in balanced/unbalanced mode before going into the amp.


----------



## Skylab

Well, the output voltages in those specs are far from low. 

I think most people in this thread know that the setting on the volume control actually doesn't mean very much. Depending on the source voltage, you could get to the amps full power before even getting to 12:00 with a very high voltage, or you could turn it up all the way and still not be delivering the amps full power if you had a source with a very low voltage.

That said, with that DAC, it seems hard to imagine the 102 dB sensitive T1 not reaching 102 dB average level with ease using the WA22. The T1 only needs 1mW for that!!!!! 

That said, how exactly are you measuring using the SPL meter? Do you have a sealed coupling to the ear cup?


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When Skylab suggested your source voltage might be low, I was hoping to learn what you're feeding the DACs and you could check that. I'd also check the digital interconnect from front-end > W4S/MM, as well as the analogue interconnects. Measuring the voltage outputs on one or both DACs should shed more light in balanced/unbalanced mode before going into the amp.


 

 I can pick up a multimeter tomorrow and do some tests. I've tried two different usb cables from two different computers and a toslink coming from a dvd player.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, the output voltages in those specs are far from low.
> 
> I think most people in this thread know that the setting on the volume control actually doesn't mean very much. Depending on the source voltage, you could get to the amps full power before even getting to 12:00 with a very high voltage, or you could turn it up all the way and still not be delivering the amps full power if you had a source with a very low voltage.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I placed the decibel meter between both cups


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I'm no expert but I think it may be the amp. I've tried both my w4s and matrix mini-i, balanced and unbalanced, and i'm getting the same volume levels.
> 
> Is there an internal part of the amp when broken that could account for this lack of volume?


 


  With my Mini-i in fixed mode I listen to the LCD-2  around 10 am on my WA22, depending on what audio plugins I use with iTunes. I remember the HD800 had pretty similar volume requirements. I am using the Sylvania 7236 power tubes.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You are a bad man, Grokit!
> 
> 
> I really like the Wadia i170 as it turns my iPod into my media server, and if I stay with it, I may get one of those mods.  I spoke with the guy last night and he says that the new Wadia i171 has circuitry to better deal with the iPad.  After the call my thinking was that if I stay with the iPod, I'll probably have one of his mods done.  However, I really want to get out of the walled Apple garden, and if I can find a piece of hardware that will play higher rez music, the iPod has no place other than for portability.  It may be that the Bryston will replace the iPod/i170 combination.  I have a nibble on my PWD from a fellow head-fi'er and if (when!!!!) it gets sold, I'll move on the Bryston.


 
   
  Hehe, I've heard _that_ before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I remember that you were going to have a look at the Modwright Transporter, what did you think of it?


----------



## grokit

Speaking of the Sylvania 7236...
   
  Has anyone compared the Tungsol 7236 power tubes to the Sylvanias in the WA22 (or in general)?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I can pick up a multimeter tomorrow and do some tests. I've tried two different usb cables from two different computers and a toslink coming from a dvd player.
> 
> 
> I placed the decibel meter between both cups


 

 In a nod to Peter Falk, just a few more questions...
   
  Are you using a computer as your front-end server? If so, what platform (OS X, Linux, Windows)? Again, if so, check your audio player's drivers - how are they configured? Lastly, by chance do you have an analogue source that you could connect directly to your amp?


----------



## PanamaRed

Ahh yes, Peter Falk. I heard about that today. Very sad. I used to love watching Columbo when I was kind on summer vacation.
   
  PC is set to 24/19200. I run J. River with kernel streaming.
   
  MAC laptop, and I set it to the default settings after installing the W4s software. And I was running I-Tunes.
   
  Tried the analog source (DVD player again). Same volume levels. The T1 starts to get in the loud range at around 4pm
   
  I really appreciate all your help and advice fellas and bearing with me as i'm a novice at this.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> In a nod to Peter Falk, just a few more questions...
> 
> Are you using a computer as your front-end server? If so, what platform (OS X, Linux, Windows)? Again, if so, check your audio player's drivers - how are they configured? Lastly, by chance do you have an analogue source that you could connect directly to your amp?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hehe, I've heard _that_ before
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It already has a DAC in it and I want to keep my DAC separate.


----------



## Skylab

PanamaRed I don't think placing the mic of the decibel meter between the ear cups would give you an even remotely accurate reading, and it would read very low. There is probably no problem with your amp. When wearing the headphones does it not seem crazy loud when you crank it up? It may be that you are listening much too loud...90db is too loud for anything other than very occasional peaks.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





skylab said:


> PanamaRed I don't think placing the mic of the decibel meter between the ear cups would give you an even remotely accurate reading, and it would read very low. There is probably no problem with your amp. When wearing the headphones does it not seem crazy loud when you crank it up? It may be that you are listening much too loud...90db is too loud for anything other than very occasional peaks.


 
   
  I see what you are saying. I found this chart: http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html
   
  Apparently a telephone dial tone is 80db. Is that what you would consider optimal listening volume?


----------



## Skylab

Yes indeed. I calibrate my listening for 80 dB A weighted peaks. But to get an accurate reading on your headphones you have to have a sealed coupling between the meter's mic and the ear cup.


----------



## PanamaRed

Ok thanks everyone for your patience on this dim-witted fool. It appears as my amp is working properly. I am just a moron that has been listening at very unsafe levels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  At around 10:30 I can hear the HD800s across the house and i've been going up to 3:00
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes indeed. I calibrate my listening for 80 dB A weighted peaks. But to get an accurate reading on your headphones you have to have a sealed coupling between the meter's mic and the ear cup.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Ok thanks everyone for your patience on this dim-witted fool. It appears as my amp is working properly. I am just a moron that has been listening at very unsafe levels
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One of the things about listening levels that I was reading about the other day is that the ear has a physicial mechanism to defend itself against loud sounds.  If I can find that article about loud listening levels, I'll post it, but as I remember it, there is a kind of a feedback loop that you get into in that you turn the music up and then the ear begins to dampen higher frequencies and then you want to turn the sound up even louder to hear better.
   
  There is also a sound memory that works like muscle memory in that you get used to something and the absense of it seems abnormal.
   
  Try this for a few days and then observe if things change.  Start listening at two clicks up from the bottom.  In the beginning it will sound way too low and you'll percieve that you're not hearing clearly.  Stay with it for at least one day.  Then the next day, start listening again at two clicks and you will start noticing that the music is now more clear.
   
  I'm going to look for that article that talks about this and post it.
  
  Ok, I found the post, it is at: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/loud-music-sucks
   
  Here is another article that has more information about the acoustic reflex:
http://www.santafevisions.com/csf/html/lectures/006_hearing_I.htm


----------



## PanamaRed

Awesome. Thanks Mike. I will give that a shot.


----------



## mikemalter

Images of what happens in our ears when listening to sound.


----------



## Clayton SF

Oh sweet evolution.


----------



## Silent One

This is better than Satellite/CATV.


----------



## PanamaRed

It's only been about an hour mike but i'm definitely getting into this. I never thought i'd be listening to my WA22 with just two clicks but it is rather enjoyable.
   
  I am drinking some malbec and going through this reading while playing the Dead performing at the Auditorium Theater (Chicago) 6-28-76.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Try this for a few days and then observe if things change.  Start listening at two clicks up from the bottom.  In the beginning it will sound way too low and you'll percieve that you're not hearing clearly.  Stay with it for at least one day.  Then the next day, start listening again at two clicks and you will start noticing that the music is now more clear.
> 
> I'm going to look for that article that talks about this and post it.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

I have a couple of questions for the seasoned ripper hands out there.
   
  I got a copy of dbPoweramp and am looking at possibly re-ripping CD's that were ripped through iTunes with Apple Lossless.
   
  Through dbPoweramp I can rip to a number of formats among them are AIFF, Apple Lossless, FLAC and Wave.  My question at this point is there an ideal format to rip CD's to?  Then within that format there are different settings.  If I choose FLAC, is Lossless Uncompressed the best.  What about upsampling?  In AIFF I can specify bit depth and sample rate.  Is it worth picking a format like that which will allow me to upsample?
   
  If I already have most of my music in Apple Lossless, would it be a good idea to simply convert to FLAC or another format?
   
  I've been playing around with AIFF, Apple Lossless, FLAC and Wave, and I can't seem to hear the difference between any of them when ripped from a CD.  Does that sound about right?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





panamared said:


> It's only been about an hour mike but i'm definitely getting into this. I never thought i'd be listening to my WA22 with just two clicks but it is rather enjoyable.
> 
> I am drinking some malbec and going through this reading while playing the Dead performing at the Auditorium Theater (Chicago) 6-28-76.


 

 Cool.  Remember the two clicks setting is just a starting point to help you get a baseline.
   
  Sounds like you are having a wonderful evening.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a couple of questions for the seasoned ripper hands out there.
> 
> I got a copy of dbPoweramp and am looking at possibly re-ripping CD's that were ripped through iTunes with Apple Lossless.
> 
> ...


 

 If your computer has good processing power and bandwidth then it is virtually impossible to discern a difference between the converted formats (ALAC, FLAC) and the pure formats (AIFF, WAV). The converted formats do use more processing resources while the pure formats need the most storage space. Because of this, on an iPod you would use less batteries when playing the pure formats but that is offset by less room for music because of the bigger files so it depends on your priorities.
   
  Also AIFF allows tags while WAV does not, and finally FLAC is not proprietary like ALAC. There is no problem converting back and forth with any of these formats with the exception of the tagging issue in WAV. iTunes won't play FLAC natively but with an add-on program like Pure Music it will. Some older iPods can be "Rockboxed" to support FLAC as well.


----------



## PanamaRed

If you continue to use your Ipod (or itunes), you will not be able to use Flac files.
   
  The reason I have chosen to use FLAC as my format of choice is the beauty of having uncompressed sound in a format that is open-source.
   
  I am not claiming that I can necessarily hear the difference between say .mp3's at 320 kbits vs. uncompressed flac.
   
  However, upon consideration that all physical cd/dvd media has a fixed life span and the cheap cost of storage these days, i find it a necessity to ensure the music remains as true to the recording as possible.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a couple of questions for the seasoned ripper hands out there.
> 
> I got a copy of dbPoweramp and am looking at possibly re-ripping CD's that were ripped through iTunes with Apple Lossless.
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If your computer has good processing power and bandwidth then it is virtually impossible to discern a difference between the converted formats (ALAC, FLAC) and the pure formats (AIFF, WAV). The converted formats do use more processing resources while the pure formats need the most storage space. Because of this, on an iPod you would use less batteries when playing the pure formats but that is offset by less room for music because of the bigger files so it depends on your priorities.
> 
> Also AIFF allows tags while WAV does not, and finally FLAC is not proprietary like ALAC. There is no problem converting back and forth with any of these formats with the exception of the tagging issue in WAV. iTunes won't play FLAC natively but with an add-on program like Pure Music it will. Some older iPods can be "Rockboxed" to support FLAC as well.


 

 So if I were going to go with AIFF, I have a very wide range of frequency and sample rate settings available to me. If I know something is 44/16 is there any audio advantage to going up to 24/192, or is it best to stay with what the original is recorded at.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





panamared said:


> If you continue to use your Ipod (or itunes), you will not be able to use Flac files.
> 
> The reason I have chosen to use FLAC as my format of choice is the beauty of having uncompressed sound in a format that is open-source.
> 
> ...


 

 This effort will be for a seperate media library, if I want to put something on my iPod, I'll convert it.
   
  I'm looking for something without sonic compromise.


----------



## PanamaRed

Then imho Flac would be your best bet. No sonic compromise and smaller file sizes than Wav.
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This effort will be for a seperate media library, if I want to put something on my iPod, I'll convert it.
> 
> I'm looking for something without sonic compromise.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If your computer has good processing power and bandwidth then it is virtually impossible to discern a difference between the converted formats (ALAC, FLAC) and the pure formats (AIFF, WAV). The converted formats do use more processing resources while the pure formats need the most storage space. Because of this, on an iPod you would use less batteries when playing the pure formats but that is offset by less room for music because of the bigger files so it depends on your priorities.
> 
> Also AIFF allows tags while WAV does not, and finally FLAC is not proprietary like ALAC. There is no problem converting back and forth with any of these formats with the exception of the tagging issue in WAV. iTunes won't play FLAC natively but with an add-on program like Pure Music it will. Some older iPods can be "Rockboxed" to support FLAC as well.


 

 Two observations ~
   
  In the first, you hit the processing & bandwidth aspects _dead-on._ In the second observation, I've had a difference experience with battery usage on the iPod playing large uncompressed files. For example, what I found is if I play just a handful of tracks up to 60-75 minutes total (WAV/ALAC) versus several 3-4 minute tracks making up the same total, I use more juice with the former. Listening to a 28 minute track by Coltrane, shoot, he ain't got warmed up 'till the 15 minute mark!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I think this has to do with how the iPod needs to access files on the disk. And it may take more energy handling a collection of large files. These observations were made and repeated one Autumn doin' a whole lotta yard work: trimming trees, bushes, my hair... wait, that was later in the evening. 
   
  I was using the Photo edition iPod when fairly new. As in any other environment, testing may expose something specific or general. It'd be easy to test and see if this is the case with anyone's current iDevice - load it up and let it run!


----------



## sillysally

There is no one set db level for all lessening, it all depends on how long your lessening session is in hours and ear sensitivity. There are posted charts about db levels and time of lessening session. In general the longer the lessening session the lower you want to set the db level, as mike points out you can numb your ears and therefore loose ear sensitivity at higher db levels and it can take up to many days to get your ears back to normal (sensitivity level).
   
  As far as db measuring level using a db meter like the one found at Radio Shack, its a good guide but still can be up to 5 db off. As Skylab suggests a sealed coupling (looks like a hockey puck with a hole in the center for your db meter's mic)  between your headphone and db meter's mic probably is the most accurate way, Or you can use a cup with a hole in the center for your db meter's mic. There are posted db meter error measurements for different db meters at different db levels.
   
  As a general rule a safe db level is between 71 db and 80 db level peak, depending on your ear sensitivity levels and how long your lessening session is.
   
  On a side note, you guys may what to check with Jack on your amps bandwidth levels. For those of you that have the WA5/LE, the bandwidth level is unlimited.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a couple of questions for the seasoned ripper hands out there.
> 
> I got a copy of dbPoweramp and am looking at possibly re-ripping CD's that were ripped through iTunes with Apple Lossless.
> 
> ...


 

 Your illustrations on hearing last night were amazing! dbPoweramp is an excellent choice for ripping. Also excellent, Grokit's point about processing & bandwidth - they matter. Having your music server in place, complimented by your iPod, when mobile, dbPoweramp will afford you great flexibility.
   
  Prices on storage/memory have fallen dramatically in the last 18 months. Here's what I'd do: I would create perfect rips - CD's to WAV and maintain the files as masters. Then, I would go about converting into one or two chosen formats to accommodate the home rig & iPod.
   
  Equally important, should you ever purchase and download a hi-rez file from iTrax or other services in WAV format (96/24 kHz), keep it as your master, make a copy and then convert in any format you like.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> There is no one set db level for all lessening, it all depends on how long your lessening session is in hours and ear sensitivity. There are posted charts about db levels and time of lessening session. In general the longer the lessening session the lower you want to set the db level, as mike points out you can numb your ears and therefore loose ear sensitivity at higher db levels and it can take up to many days to get your ears back to normal (sensitivity level).
> 
> As far as db measuring level using a db meter like the one found at Radio Shack, its a good guide but still can be up to 5 db off. As Skylab suggests a sealed coupling (looks like a hockey puck with a hole in the center for your db meter's mic)  between your headphone and db meter's mic probably is the most accurate way, Or you can use a cup with a hole in the center for your db meter's mic. There are posted db meter error measurements for different db meters at different db levels.
> 
> ...


 

 x2!
   
  One of the main reasons why I appreciate my Woo only 2-3 times a week, is that I'm allowing my inner ear to expand in the interim. My days/nights are uneven, so I tend to moderate my listening during the week according to how much external commotion I endure during the day/week.
   
  And sometimes when I'm really feelin' the music during an extended 8 hour session, I'll take multiple breaks. In the same manner as taking breaks from being seated. With a background in Home Audio (Retail), and Car Audio (Retail & Manufacturing), and the countless demos I endured, I learned to choose when to listen away from work.
   
  Sadly, I didn't protect my hearing early enough. But entering the trade brought me awareness/wisdom. But hey, every lil' bit now helps.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  This morning's session will begin 'round 0200 hours thru 0700 hours. Two hours in, I will break and let 'er run for an hour (burn-in). While I cozy up with a new paperback from Amazon delivered Friday: 
   
  "Paris Was Ours" by Penelope Rowlands


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Thanks guys. It was my fault for not making that aware to Glenn but the guy is so awesome he is letting me swap one.
> 
> Just a quick question for you WA22 owners... what position do you guys normally listen to with either the HD800 or LCD-2?
> 
> I have my W4S DAC-2 turned all the way up and it seems like I have to crank the woo pretty high.


 
   
  Check the impedance setting on the on/off switch. It sounds to me like you are using the "low" impedance setting. I use the "high" impedance setting for the HD 800s, and I set the volume level up to the 12:00 position only some of the time...usually 9-10 o'clock.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Then imho Flac would be your best bet. No sonic compromise and smaller file sizes than Wav.


 
  X2


----------



## Skylab

With dBPoweramp, you can rip in any lossless format you want and it really doesn't matter, because you can always use dBPoweramp to transcode to another lossless format, with zero loss. I sometimes rip in FLAC and then transcode to Apple Lossless for use in iTunes.

But I usually rip using iTunes itself. As long as you check to use error correction, and you use your computer for NOTHING ELSE while ripping, I get perfect rips using iTunes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Then imho Flac would be your best bet. No sonic compromise and smaller file sizes than Wav.


 

 Panama thanks.  Just by way of your point, a recent Stereophile article on the iPod using Apple Lossless found the playback to be bit perfect to the original, so the lossless formats get the job done.  Even though m4a is not flac, I see your point about lossless.
  
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your illustrations on hearing last night were amazing! dbPoweramp is an excellent choice for ripping. Also excellent, Grokit's point about processing & bandwidth - they matter. Having your music server in place, complimented by your iPod, when mobile, dbPoweramp will afford you great flexibility.
> 
> Prices on storage/memory have fallen dramatically in the last 18 months. Here's what I'd do: I would create perfect rips - CD's to WAV and maintain the files as masters. Then, I would go about converting into one or two chosen formats to accommodate the home rig & iPod.
> 
> ...


 

 SilentOne, yes, from the research I am doing, WAV seems to be the way to go as a master copy, and then I can convert to suit my device or other requirement.  Also interesting about selecting hi-rez downloads in wav.  Here is an interesting link to what one can do with a wav file: http://www.lastcombat.com/videos.php?page=1&one=Wav&two=FLAC&f=FLAC_vs_Wav&video=nHt7zHSXUrQ.
   
  My next question if anyone can please comment, in ripping to wav, is there a best bit, sample and channel setting?  From a channels perspective, at this point I'm just a two channel man, however for bit and sample size.  Is there any sonic advantage to take a 44.1/16 CD and rip it to 24/192 or 24/92?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> With dBPoweramp, you can rip in any lossless format you want and it really doesn't matter, because you can always use dBPoweramp to transcode to another lossless format, with zero loss. I sometimes rip in FLAC and then transcode to Apple Lossless for use in iTunes.
> 
> But I usually rip using iTunes itself. As long as you check to use error correction, and you use your computer for NOTHING ELSE while ripping, I get perfect rips using iTunes.


 

 Skylab, right now I am in an experimental stage getting ready for testing the Bryston BDP-1, so I am trying to get my mind around these different formats and what their sonic benefits are.
   
  With regard to dbPoweramp's conversion.  Have you found it to be very accurate and trouble free?  I was thinking about doing the same thing as you with hi-rez and that is download in either flac or wav, and then convert to something that my iPod can handle.  I have also heard that iTunes is actually a very good CD ripper as long as you have error correction turned on.  I have been using it to date without issues.


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> My next question if anyone can please comment, in ripping to wav, is there a best bit, sample and channel setting?  From a channels perspective, at this point I'm just a two channel man, however for bit and sample size.  Is there any sonic advantage to take a 44.1/16 CD and rip it to 24/192 or 24/92?
> 
> Thanks.




Hi Mike - I rip files in their native bit depth and sample rate (ie 16/44 for Redbook CD). Your DAC and/or playback software can up-sample from there if you prefer (some DACs up-sample regardless). IMHO - no reason to add another layer of processing (ie from 16/44 to 24/192 or whatever) during the rip - the data is what it is.


----------



## Skylab

Mike, the conversions using dBPoweramp are it's best feature IMO. Very easy and trouble free. And if you buy a license for dBpoweramp and you have a multiple-core CPU, the conversions will run multi-threaded. I have a quad-core CPU and the conversions absolutely fly.


----------



## Sesam

I have been using dbpoweramp for years to convert between lossless formats without any problems, the software is very reliable and you can rest assured that every bit is preserved. The worst that can happen is that some of the tags may be lost during a conversion. My format of choice is FLAC, simply because it's a commonly supported format and you can save metadata. 
   
  I also use the dbpoweramp CD ripper as it has great features to check for accuracy of the rip, gives you a peace of mind not having to worry about errors. Also it's a big time-saver that it can grab  metadata from several sources. While there are other free accurate cd rippers out there, most of them aren't as userfriendly. However iTunes as a CD ripper has a worse reputation than it deserves, if you have a good drive and CD's without scratches your rips will likely be 100% perfect (I know as I have compared hashes between different CD rippers).


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


skylab said:


> With dBPoweramp, you can rip in any lossless format you want and it really doesn't matter, because you can always use dBPoweramp to transcode to another lossless format, with zero loss. I sometimes rip in FLAC and then transcode to Apple Lossless for use in iTunes.
> 
> But I usually rip using iTunes itself. As long as you check to use error correction, *and you use your computer for NOTHING ELSE while ripping*, I get perfect rips using iTunes.


 
   
  I don't understand...what's the logic there?


----------



## Icenine2

Mike,
   
  How about the Server over at Computer Audiophile.  Build yourself or have someone else do it.  It is their latest iteration and it is beautiful!!  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server-CAPS-v20
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, not exactly, but I do appreciate the thought.
> 
> I am looking for a dedicated higher end media player and am thinking about the BDP-1.  One of the reasons I like the Bryston is because it's OS is just there to run the soundcard and the interface to it.  The digital side of the unit has its own power supply, and the analog side of the unit has its own power supply.
> 
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

I thought I'd read somewhere (Gordon Rankin) saying to use wav instead of FLAC
  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Then imho Flac would be your best bet. No sonic compromise and smaller file sizes than Wav.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Mike,
> 
> How about the Server over at Computer Audiophile.  Build yourself or have someone else do it.  It is their latest iteration and it is beautiful!!  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server-CAPS-v20


 

 What a great link, thanks.  My problem is that I don't really know enough to be able to put together a media server.  The thing I like about the BDP-1 is that some credible and talented people did the work for me (and it will cost more to be sure).  However, I think that your link has peaked my interest and I think I'm going to start researching this topic further.


----------



## Skylab

sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> I don't understand...what's the logic there?



You don't want your CPU being taxed with other tasks while it is ripping a CD. This enhances the potential for errors.


----------



## sphinxvc

Ah.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> sphinxvc said:
> ...


 

 This would be assuming that you only have 1 CPU or 1 Core, and how you have your processing tree prioritized.


----------



## Icenine2

Does anyone know if there's an optimal USB for Windows based computers for DAC connection?


----------



## jc9394

wedge said:


> This would be assuming that you only have 1 CPU or 1 Core, and how you have your processing tree prioritized.




Not sure but I have a dual quad with 16GB RAM on my machine and when I rip CD I'm not doing anything else.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Does anyone use Flukeformac to play FLAC in iTunes?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So if I were going to go with AIFF, I have a very wide range of frequency and sample rate settings available to me. If I know something is 44/16 is there any audio advantage to going up to 24/192, or is it best to stay with what the original is recorded at.


 

 I am currently upsampling from 16/44 to 24/96 with Pure Music and am just getting in to it. I would like to compare my current results to 88.2 and 176/192 but am limited by my equipment ATM, mainly by my Bravo spdif converter. I am ambivalent if there is any real benefit but that could change as my abilities evolve. OTOH I really like the way my music sounds now though so it's kind of on the back burner.


----------



## dminches

I don't understand the value in storing master wave files when you can store FLACs at 50-60% compression.  The FLAC compression routine has proven to be exact, bit for bit.  Not that computers are perfect, but we aren't talking about a digital representation of something analog. Both flac and wave are digital.  All FLAC does is find ways to represent multiple bits with fewer bits, similar to using zip.


----------



## mikemalter

I have a question for you guys about something that has me extremely concerned and I do not want to get ripped off.
   
  Today, I posted two ads to Audiogon, one for my PWD and the other for my LCD-2.  Within 1/2 hour both units sold for full asking price no questions.  I put a buy now button on both sales.
   
  Payment will be through Paypal.  How do I make sure I am not being ripped off by scammers?  It seems odd to me that both items would sell so quickly with no questions asked (although I did put up some photos).  There is one other PWD dac with a bridge up for sale on Audiogon, but it is $100 dollars more.
   
  Has anybody gotten wind of scammers on Audiogon?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## dminches

How can you get scammed with paypal?  They provide a guarantee.  I wouldn't worry about it at all.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm surprised there is no love for Exact Audio Copy for ripping CDs yet.


----------



## monoethylene

Dont make me nervous  I ve posted my first ad today at Audiogon..


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I don't understand the value in storing master wave files when you can store FLACs at 50-60% compression.  The FLAC compression routine has proven to be exact, bit for bit.  Not that computers are perfect, but we aren't talking about a digital representation of something analog. Both flac and wave are digital.  All FLAC does is find ways to represent multiple bits with fewer bits, similar to using zip.


 

 So here is the deal, I've been reading a lot about these formats and so here is what I have learned (and I am certain there is much more to know and I am hardly an expert - except on matters of opinion).
   
  Wav and AIFF are native non-compressed formats.  Wav for the PC and AIFF for Apple.  The value of storing in those formats is that they can serve as masters so to speak and you can edit them and do a lot with them.  So the value would be that if you wanted native, non-compressed files that you wanted to rip a cd with, or edit, or copy with changes to bit and sampling and channel information these would be good for that. 
   
  Having said that, there are some nice conversion programs out there that will take a FLAC, or other lossless files and convert them to just about anything, so it's almost moot.  However, if I were in the audio business, I'd store everything in either wav or aiff so I would not have to worry about decompression making subtle changes to a file.
   
  I'm probably going to start putting everything in wav and then will convert from that format to whatever device requirements presented themselves.  It seems more like a personal choice when the context is personal consumer audio.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How can you get scammed with paypal?  They provide a guarantee.  I wouldn't worry about it at all.


 


 I don't know how I could get scammed with Paypal - but I am 100% certain there are people out there trying to make a living off of scamming people on Paypal.  Whenever something goes too easy, there is something wrong.  It's just that neither of these guys asked any questions at all.  It was like, ad up there for less than 1/2 hour and then, bam, sold!
   


  Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Dont make me nervous  I ve posted my first ad today at Audiogon..


 

 What are you selling?


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What are you selling?


 
   
  Entreq Discover USB cable..


----------



## PanamaRed

Selling: If the sale price is over $250 (including shipping) you must require signature confirmation for seller protection (othewise you are s.o.l). Also, if you ship internationally DO NOT use first class mail. You have to use the more expensive priority mail. Also, if your item has a serial number write it down and take a picture (to avoid having a different broken unit sent back to you)

 Buyers: Never send money as gift.
  
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I don't know how I could get scammed with Paypal - but I am 100% certain there are people out there trying to make a living off of scamming people on Paypal.  Whenever something goes too easy, there is something wrong.  It's just that neither of these guys asked any questions at all.  It was like, ad up there for less than 1/2 hour and then, bam, sold!
> 
> What are you selling?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Selling: If the sale price is over $250 (including shipping) you must require signature confirmation for seller protection (othewise you are s.o.l). Also, if you ship internationally DO NOT use first class mail. You have to use the more expensive priority mail. Also, if your item has a serial number write it down and take a picture (to avoid having a different broken unit sent back to you)
> 
> Buyers: Never send money as gift.


 


  I recently read a post of someone here on Head fi who wouldn't take PayPal,  only a certified check claiming he was scammed on PayPal by someone using a stolen credit card on PayPal.  I didn't give it much thought until now.  
   
   
  So Mike, you didn't like your LCD's?


----------



## Skylab

Audiogon has a feedback system. Does your buyer have feedback? You should be able to check that out. Audiogon has been almost 100% trouble free for me. I did buy an amp there that had to be repaired right away, and it took several months, which sucked, but in the end I actually got a brand new amp for the price of a used one...


----------



## Sesam

As a seller you can get scammed even when you get paid with PayPal. 
   
  To protect yourself when selling expensive items, when you request money preferably create an invoice with a description of the item (condition, what's included etc..). Also if possible include the URL to the page where the item was sold/advertised. It might be a good idea to take a photo of how the item was packed (to show that it was well protected, in case the item arrives damaged). Make sure you send it insured with tracking and "signed for", and keep the receipt at least 45 days.  
   
  This is because PayPal tends to rule in favor to the buyer if there is an dispute. For example a buyer can claim that he never received the item, you as the seller will have to provide proof that the item was sent (and even better if it also was "signed for"). A buyers can also claim he didn't get what he paid for, or that the item was in worse condition than advertised (this is why it is a good idea to have a description of the item in the invoice when requesting money through PayPal, especially important if selling used items that may not be "mint" condition).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I recently read a post of someone here on Head fi who wouldn't take PayPal,  only a certified check claiming he was scammed on PayPal by someone using a stolen credit card on PayPal.  I didn't give it much thought until now.
> 
> 
> So Mike, you didn't like your LCD's?


 

 About the credit card situation on Paypal.  I only pay with my credit card in case there is an issue I can skirt Paypal and deal directly with American Express.  The AMEX people are super good about disputes.  Paypal makes you jump through hoops to use a credit card as they want their hooks in your bank account.  I have a special wire account that never has any balance in it.  I have read where Paypal will freeze an account or grab your money and you have no recourse.  So, if I am being scammed by a stolen credit card, the guy would also have to have the login of the Paypal account and his email account.  Well, maybe I got lucky and this is real and it just took me 1/2 an hour to sell my DAC and headphones.
   
  On to more fun stuff. 
   
  I liked the LCD-2's, I just did not love them. 
   
  I have a pair of HD800's and I find their sound very delicate and nuanced and I did not get that effect with the LCD-2's.  I even bought special tubes that generated more output to mate to the headphone, but it just never jelled for me.  I also imagine there are amps that would mate better with them than my WA22.  I really liked their organic and woody sound.  Given the little time I spent with them, I can see why people fall in love with them as they are a really great pair of headphones.  I really like the customer service and community envolvement that the Audeze folks have, and the vendors who sell their product love them and love selling them because they are so good.  I am actually a little torn having to sell them.  I loved the leather smell and feel, but I am working on a media server/streamer thingie and I want to focus on getting my source music just right and the funds are needed for that right now.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Audiogon has a feedback system. Does your buyer have feedback? You should be able to check that out. Audiogon has been almost 100% trouble free for me. I did buy an amp there that had to be repaired right away, and it took several months, which sucked, but in the end I actually got a brand new amp for the price of a used one...


 


 Yeah, both buyers have a ton of feedback and very high scores over the past 5 years.


----------



## Skylab

In that case you should be just fine, IME.


----------



## Icenine2

I had this happen on eBay (I think) once.  Same deal.  I posted and within less than an hour it was sold..............supposedly.   Then I got an email telling me they couldn't pay using PayPal and the usual scam after that.  They were banned after that, at least for the time being.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a question for you guys about something that has me extremely concerned and I do not want to get ripped off.
> 
> Today, I posted two ads to Audiogon, one for my PWD and the other for my LCD-2.  Within 1/2 hour both units sold for full asking price no questions.  I put a buy now button on both sales.
> 
> ...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Wav and AIFF are native non-compressed formats.  Wav for the PC and AIFF for Apple.  The value of storing in those formats is that they can serve as masters so to speak and you can edit them and do a lot with them.  So the value would be that if you wanted native, non-compressed files that you wanted to rip a cd with, or edit, or copy with changes to bit and sampling and channel information these would be good for that.
> 
> Having said that, there are some nice conversion programs out there that will take a FLAC, or other lossless files and convert them to just about anything, so it's almost moot.  However, if I were in the audio business, I'd store everything in either wav or aiff so I would not have to worry about decompression making subtle changes to a file.
> 
> I'm probably going to start putting everything in wav and then will convert from that format to whatever device requirements presented themselves.  It seems more like a personal choice when the context is personal consumer audio.


 

 I would not be worried about the FLAC process making changes to the file.  The chance of that happening is extremely remote.  And, if that was your fear, create MD5 files so you can check the wavs.
   
  The bigger issue with computer-based audio is having back ups.  That is a real risk that needs to be dealt with.


----------



## Golfnutz

@Mike, I didn't see your Audiogon posting, but if it looks like your Head-Fi posting, you did say price is firm. This is possibly the reason there was no haggling. Also, your pricing isn't that bad (couple hundred bucks off and no taxes). The buyer probably didn't want to take a chance to see if you would lower the price after a couple of days either (for fear that someone else might scoop them up).
   
  @DMINCHES, I agree best bang for the buck is probably FLAC. However, with the price of disk space being so cheap now I think people are going the non compressed route (WAV).


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> @DMINCHES, I agree best bang for the buck is probably FLAC. However, with the price of disk space being so cheap now I think people are going the non compressed route (WAV).


 

 You are probably right, but I have over 10 TBs of music on 3 NAS boxes and hate to think I would have to add another 5-10 if I wanted uncompressed music.
   
  Aside from storage space, the one downside to streaming wavs is that you are taking up a lot more bandwidth on your home network.  FLACs reduce the amount of data that is send from the source to the player.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> You are probably right, but I have over 10 TBs of music on 3 NAS boxes and hate to think I would have to add another 5-10 if I wanted uncompressed music.
> 
> Aside from storage space, the one downside to streaming wavs is that you are taking up a lot more bandwidth on your home network.  FLACs reduce the amount of data that is send from the source to the player.


 


  Greetings dminches! As the one who made the original comment regarding _master files _yesterday, allow me to expand some. A couple of things:
   
  Your situation above highlights perfectly just how some of our current needs and future needs differ from other members. And that what is of value to me may not serve you or save you, time & money among them. WAV needn't be your entire collection. If I loaned you a rare CD to rip and you chose not to archive it in WAV, you'd be putting a lot of trust in the ability to decompress or transcode in the future without incident. 
   
  In audio, we are still discovering ways in which sound (files) can be affected just going through the system. A player's software might have more than enough processing power on tap yet, how it handles compressed files may also impart an undesirable sound, however slight. FLAC-WAV-AIFF-ALAC all have a role in my library. I'll archive in FLAC if the native file is. But if I have a rare CD, a fav hard to replace CD, I'm archiving, staying native, uncompressed and will transcode to my heart's delight.
   
  Secondly, you may want another look at 'Sampling.' Earlier this afternoon you wrote: _"Not that computers are perfect, but we aren't talking about a digital representation of something analogue. Both FLAC and WAVE are digital." _This isn't completely accurate. Yes, FLAC and WAVE are digital. They're also products. They're products of digital samples taken of sound in analogue wave forms.
   
  Say, I hired you for a photography gig. I need you to take a DSLR to the 1800 block of Broadway. I need you to capture the flow of traffic as it goes by. Each time a white motor vehicle passes, "Shoot it!" The flow of traffic in this case is the analogue stream. The photos you capture (the digital samples) are the digital representation of this analogue stream. 
   
   
  Post Script.:
   
  After being in the heat all day, it's quite possible I did not fully understand what you wrote or what you meant. This post is simply my (friendly) attempt at getting us on the same page.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mike, the conversions using dBPoweramp are it's best feature IMO. Very easy and trouble free. And if you buy a license for dBpoweramp and you have a multiple-core CPU, the conversions will run multi-threaded. I have a quad-core CPU and the conversions absolutely fly.


 
   
  x2 Rob. dBPoweramp is a fine suite of tools for ripping, burning & conversion of all audio formats. It also uses an extensive meta data database for a small additional  fee ($5 I think). I use dB along with the indispensable (I think) MP3Tag software.
   
  EAC (Exact Audio Copy) is a famous suite of the same type of tools that is highly regarded also.


----------



## bergnerm

Wow! That is a pretty amazing music collection, dminches. I'm not even up to 1TB yet, and just last year I started converting all of my CDs to FLAC. What type of music do you have in your collection? I imagine that took a small amount of time to rip!
   
  I'm using Exact Audio Copy for the rip, and Media Monkey as my primary player. The thing I like about Media Monkey is that it makes it extremely easy to manage your files / tags. It seems like with other media players, I was never really in control of my files. I wound up with three copies of a single file often: a .m4a from my (now abandoned) iTunes rip, .mp3 from my Windows Media Player rip, and FLAC from my Exact Audio Copy rip... the same song files were winding up in directories scattered across the disk. Media Monkey was the best program that let me track down these duplicate files and eliminate the unnecessary ones.
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> You are probably right, but I have over 10 TBs of music on 3 NAS boxes and hate to think I would have to add another 5-10 if I wanted uncompressed music.
> 
> Aside from storage space, the one downside to streaming wavs is that you are taking up a lot more bandwidth on your home network.  FLACs reduce the amount of data that is send from the source to the player.


----------



## Sesam

I have ordered a EML 274B -Mesh tube, but just now I realized that there are also EML 5U4G-Mesh tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Both of these should work with the WA22, but I'm worried that I may have ordered the lesser tube. The EML 274B and 5U4G look very similar, I'm struggling to figure out the differences between these tubes, reading the manufacturers description I get the impression that the 274B is more geared towards audio use?.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings dminches! As the one who made the original comment regarding _master files _yesterday, allow me to expand some. A couple of things:
> 
> Your situation above highlights perfectly just how some of our current needs and future needs differ from other members. And that what is of value to me may not serve you or save you, time & money among them. WAV needn't be your entire collection. If I loaned you a rare CD to rip and you chose not to archive it in WAV, you'd be putting a lot of trust in the ability to decompress or transcode in the future without incident.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the detailed response, Silent One.  I am glad you aren't so silent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I completely understand the issues with digital representations of analog information and in no way think that a digital version of an analog recording is the "same" as the original.  I hope my comments didn't indicate otherwise.
   
  My point about comparing wav and flac is they are both digital and, to me, there is no difference between them if the algorithm to compress the data is accurate.  I have never read anywhere that the wav>flac>wav process has ever produced a difference between the beginning and ending wavs (aside from a computer error which can be checked).  The compression process is not the same type of process used to go from, let's say, wav to mp3.  In that process information is lost.  The flac compression process is fairly simple.  It looks to replace a patterns of bits with fewer bits.  For example, it may replace a pattern of ABCDE with X.  When the files is decoded it merely replaces the X with ABCDE.  (My apologies if you know all this.  I just want to make sure that we are on the same page).  So, being a computer guy myself, unless there is a major flaw in the program itself, the flac and wav files are identical in terms of the information they represent.  To me, the bigger issue is the CD rip.  That process is known to be susceptible to errors.
   
  I don't understand the analog with the photography since it compares analog (actual traffic) with digital (image).  Wavs and flacs are both digital.
  
  Thanks!
   
  PS.  My perspective reflects a leap of faith in computers and programs.  So, to me, if they are running properly the process should be perfect.  If the program itself has an error then they won't be.  As of right now I assume the program (flac) works.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I have ordered a EML 274B -Mesh tube, but just now I realized that there are also EML 5U4G-Mesh tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I have both and you will be happy with either.  I personally prefer the 274B with HD800 and D7000 while 5U4G with LCD-2.
   
  5U4G - more dynamic, impact, and balanced
  274B - more romantic sound and slightly less bass on the lower end.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have both and you will be happy with either.  I personally prefer the 274B with HD800 and D7000 while 5U4G with LCD-2.
> 
> 5U4G - more dynamic, impact, and balanced
> 274B - more romantic sound and slightly less bass on the lower end.


 

 JC, have you had the chance to compare the EML 274B to the Sophia 274B (Princess)?


----------



## mikemalter

Just pulled the trigger on a Bryston BDP-1 and a nice Cardas XLR digital interconnect.
   
  I am really hoping that all the digital artificats I was hearing with the Squeezebox Touch, PWD/bridge and through my computer all go away.  If I can get the same clean sound with the BDP-1 that I am getting with my iPod/Wadia i170 combination, I'll have successfully moved out of Apple's walled garden to a high quality audio platform that can deliver higher resolution audio.
   
  Found out yesterday that the audio card in the BDP-1 is a Juli@ made by ESI.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> _*Just pulled the trigger *_on a Bryston BDP-1 and a nice Cardas XLR digital interconnect.
> 
> I am really hoping that all the digital artificats I was hearing with the Squeezebox Touch, PWD/bridge and through my computer all go away.  If I can get the same clean sound with the BDP-1 that I am getting with my iPod/Wadia i170 combination, I'll have successfully moved out of Apple's walled garden to a high quality audio platform that can deliver higher resolution audio.
> 
> Found out yesterday that the audio card in the BDP-1 is a Juli@ made by ESI.


 
  Wow. And yah still have bullets left? That Bryston BDP-1 is surely a handsome looking device! The BDA-1 matching DAC is the next target? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have fun. I've been eyeing the BDP-1 since it graced the June 2011 cover of Stereophile.


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have both and you will be happy with either.  I personally prefer the 274B with HD800 and D7000 while 5U4G with LCD-2.
> 
> 5U4G - more dynamic, impact, and balanced
> 274B - more romantic sound and slightly less bass on the lower end.


 


  phew.. that's a relief . I currently use a cheap stock Sino (Shuguang) 274B tube,  so I guess either way would be an upgrade. However I wouldn't mind a somewhat brighter sound.
   
  For those that have heard the Sino (Shuguang)  274B tubes, I'm very curious aboutr how the sound signature compares to Sophia and EML.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a Bryston BDP-1 and a nice Cardas XLR digital interconnect.
> 
> I am really hoping that all the digital artificats I was hearing with the Squeezebox Touch, PWD/bridge and through my computer all go away.  If I can get the same clean sound with the BDP-1 that I am getting with my iPod/Wadia i170 combination, I'll have successfully moved out of Apple's walled garden to a high quality audio platform that can deliver higher resolution audio.
> 
> Found out yesterday that the audio card in the BDP-1 is a Juli@ made by ESI.


 
   
  Mike, the BDP-1 only reads data from its USB ports, right?  If it can't pull music from your network then I would assume it shouldn't exhibit the digital artifacts that you heard with your touch.  BTW, did you ever listen to any music on the touch via the USB port?  That would be the direct comparison to the BDP-1.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. And yah still have bullets left? That Bryston BDP-1 is surely a handsome looking device! The BDA-1 matching DAC is the next target?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  For this price it doesn't stream music from a computer or have a remote and no DAC or CD/DVD/BD loader???.  I will stick with my Oppo BD-95 at less than half the price with its Sabre ES9018 DAC's and its balanced XLR two channel dedicated analog outs (for a amp like the WA-22) and all the other goodies it comes with.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have both and you will be happy with either.  I personally prefer the 274B with HD800 and D7000 while 5U4G with LCD-2.
> 
> 5U4G - more dynamic, impact, and balanced
> 274B - more romantic sound and slightly less bass on the lower end.


 

 Wow is the WA-22 and the WA6SE that much different. I agree about the EML 5U4G, but I found the EML 274B mesh to be very bass heavy, distorted, slow and colored. Matter of fact the guy I sold my EML 274B mesh to also sold it.
   
  Now if you are talking about the Nos EML 274 solid plate then that's a different story and a keeper.
  I much preferred the EML 5U4G when using my HD-800's or D7000.
   
  I would never dream of using anything but the EML 5U4G's in my WA5LE with my HE6's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Wow is the WA-22 and the WA6SE that much different. I agree about the EML 5U4G, but I found the EML 274B mesh to be very bass heavy, distorted, slow and colored. Matter of fact the guy I sold my EML 274B mesh to also sold it.
> 
> Now if you are talking about the Nos EML 274 solid plate then that's a different story and a keeper.
> I much preferred the EML 5U4G when using my HD-800's or D7000.
> ...


 



 If both you and the second owner were unhappy I would be tempted to say you had a bad tube.  One that tested okay but had some issue when it was built that was affecting the sonic performance.  I would not use any of those adjectives to describe my EML 274B.  If asked to contrast my opinion of the same tube against what you have experienced:   I would say it's not the bassiest rectifier I have (though it has the fastest and best controlled bass by far), is easily the clearest and most nuanced, is as fast as my TS 5U4G and and Brimar 5R4GY and sounds very neutral overall (setting aside the slightly wooden sound all EML tubes seem to have in the lower mids).


----------



## grokit

Found a decent conversation here if anyone is interested:
 Emission Labs EML 274B - Pics and small Review vs. Sophia Princess 274B


----------



## grokit

Quote:  





> Now if you are talking about the Nos EML 274 solid plate then that's a different story and a keeper.


 

 Any idea on how to acquire one?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Thanks for the detailed response, Silent One.  I am glad you aren't so silent
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Same page ~
   
  We are there. Our paragraphs differ. Now I understand the context of what you wrote, better. WAV and FLAC are both digital - agreed. But, that's not what prompted my reply. What did was reading that the two files are not a representation of something analogue. While this isn't correct, you clearly know what you're talking about, as do I. Those lacking our knowledge and understanding won't have the same benefit. The readership, made up of some with less knowledge than us about the Digital Domain could be easily mislead.
   
  By no means am I the Grammar Police (Which reminds me, I still have to pick up "Synchronicity" in 96/24 kHz). But it is them (our readership) I was hoping to keep from taking that info and running with it as true. My photography analogy was overly simplified - true. Tried to point out the 'shooter' physically collecting samples of an analogue event; his photos are now a representation of that event. Not that we're comparing the digital version with the analogue. Rather, the make up of digital music files - sound is analogue. Digital "captures" its representation by "sampling."
   
  Further, we agree about the files being identical. So, what could I possibly be trying to illustrate then? Processing. Each era of Audio we enter, we simply don' know what we don't know. There may come a time (and there will) when we discover the ability to measure things we couldn't; re-interpret things we thought we once knew to be true and absolute. Our history in Audio is littered with examples.
   
  Just 20 years ago, manufacturers were speaking in absolute terms about their gear based on this component, that interface or cable based on hard scientific data. Then, the advancement of a new generation of ADC/DAC's came along with more sensitive measuring equipment. "_Uh-oh! What's that noise?!" _ We now have identified this as jitter in the Digital Domain. And surprisingly, it has an impact everywhere! You know how this story ends, so...
   
  Advances in gear may yield a highly resolving system where processing (no matter how simple the scheme) can be heard and detracts, no matter how slight. That rare and priceless CD ripped with compression?  _Audiophiles and Merry-go-rounds just go together!  _
   
  I too, found your music library to be... (what's the current word in use for really big?) It is impressive! Looking for tax breaks? Low powered radio station - you could support the local Community College with their own broadcasting efforts. I can see you now being profiled in Head-fi!


----------



## dminches

Live Grateful Dead collections tend to get large!

I do agree that streaming/playing flac files could be different than doing the same with a wav file since things are happening on the fly. If that was your point I am in agreement. My comments were more focused on the pure storage side. 

We are still in the infant stages of the marriage of audio and computing. I am sure (and hope) there are good things to come.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Live Grateful Dead collections tend to get large!
> 
> I do agree that streaming/playing flac files could be different than doing the same with a wav file since things are happening on the fly. If that was your point I am in agreement. My comments were more focused on the pure storage side.
> 
> We are still in the infant stages of the marriage of audio and computing. I am sure (and hope) there are good things to come.


 

 Yes, these are exciting times! One of our biggest challenges remaining? Music Studio's business model. We have finally reached a point where we can fully enjoy what's in the vaults. But this is at odds with their continued revenue stream and lack of imagination. How long do we keep buying music in different resolutions and formats as opposed to 'getting it?!'


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. And yah still have bullets left? That Bryston BDP-1 is surely a handsome looking device! The BDA-1 matching DAC is the next target?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, it was more of an exchange of bullets.  I sold my PWD/bridge and LCD-2 to fund this adventure (Both items sold within *10* minutes of posting - the sales went so fast I thought that I was being scammed).
   
  Not to sure about changing DAC's for a while.  I really like my DLIII, and as it will accept up to 24/192, I'm good for a while. If I do anything after this, it will be to scare up a Cullen modified PS Audio phono stage so I can incorporate my vinyl into my listening activities.
   
  As soon as I get the BDP-1, I'll post some pictures and will post breakin impressions along the way.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Look forward to your impressions.  Hope this works out for you Mike!
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, it was more of an exchange of bullets.  I sold my PWD/bridge and LCD-2 to fund this adventure (Both items sold within *10* minutes of posting - the sales went so fast I thought that I was being scammed).
> 
> Not to sure about changing DAC's for a while.  I really like my DLIII, and as it will accept up to 24/192, I'm good for a while. If I do anything after this, it will be to scare up a Cullen modified PS Audio phono stage so I can incorporate my vinyl into my listening activities.
> 
> As soon as I get the BDP-1, I'll post some pictures and will post breakin impressions along the way.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Mike, the BDP-1 only reads data from its USB ports, right?  If it can't pull music from your network then I would assume it shouldn't exhibit the digital artifacts that you heard with your touch.  BTW, did you ever listen to any music on the touch via the USB port?  That would be the direct comparison to the BDP-1.


 
   
  You raise something very interesting ideas that I have been thinking about as well.
   
  Yes, the BDP-1 only accepts connections through it's USB ports; thumb drives and hard drives.
   
  Yes, I did listen to music on the Touch via the USB port, and I heard the same audio smears.
   
  Here is where it gets interesting, and the distinction is important.  The people at Bryston are making a marketing case along the same lines, that streaming media over the networks is the problem because they create audible digital artifacts.  However, when I listen to Radio Paradise on my iTouch/Wadia i170 there is no digital smearing.  Not only is the audio streaming, it is streaming over the internet, and, being transmitted via wireless connection to my iTouch.  If that is not streaming media (crossing multiple physical and format boundaries by the way) nothing is, and yet, there are no digital artifacts.
   
  There is something in the mix that I don't understand, something in the way that Apple is handling the conversion from internet TCP/IP packets to their propriatary digital stream, or something synergistically between the iTouch or iPod and the Wadia i170.  Whatever is going on, nobody else I have listened to, IMHO, has figured out how to do it right.  So from my experience it is not a USB thing, or a streaming media thing, but something else, and I don't know what that is.
   
  I'm also not so sure that Touch and BDP USB commonality makes it a direct comparison.  First, (obviously because it is 10 times the price) the BDP is using a really good sound card called the Juli@.  Second, they had that sound card modified and took some stuff out and put some stuff in.  They have dual power supplies, one for the digital side of the house and one for the analog side.  I think it's more of an apples and orange kind of a thing.
   
  I am really hoping this thing works.  At the current price point, I have very high expectations.


----------



## grokit

What is the bit rate of the Radio Paradise feed? Whether the music is compressed or not may make a difference over a network.
   
  And for some reason I was wondering if you are using an Airport for your router.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Live Grateful Dead collections tend to get large!
> 
> I do agree that streaming/playing flac files could be different than doing the same with a wav file since things are happening on the fly. If that was your point I am in agreement. My comments were more focused on the pure storage side.
> 
> We are still in the infant stages of the marriage of audio and computing. I am sure (and hope) there are good things to come.


 

 Yes, especially when they support bootlegging their live concerts!!!
  
   


  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Look forward to your impressions.  Hope this works out for you Mike!


 


 Thanks.
   


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> What is the bit rate of the Radio Paradise feed? Whether the music is compressed or not may make a difference over a network.
> 
> Also for some reason I was wondering if you are using an Airport for your router.


 

 Their bitrate is 128.  I don't know if they compress or not and I suspect not.  I am using a basic mutt 5 year old Linksys that I have to unplug periodically because it randomly decides not to work.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> For this price it doesn't stream music from a computer or have a remote and no DAC or CD/DVD/BD loader???.  I will stick with my Oppo BD-95 at less than half the price with its Sabre ES9018 DAC's and its balanced XLR two channel dedicated analog outs (for a amp like the WA-22) and all the other goodies it comes with.


 

 I think the Oppo is a good choice.  My situation is that I want to keep my DAC.  Do you know if it is possible to stream media with the Oppo and bypass the DAC?  If the BDP does not work out, I may try the Oppo.
   
  What is your listening profile with the Oppo?  Do you use it's DAC as your primary DAC to feed your 5, or do you use something different.  Is the Oppo your primary source?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Their bitrate is 128.  I don't know if they compress or not and I suspect not.  I am using a basic mutt 5 year old Linksys that I have to unplug periodically because it randomly decides not to work.


 

 Well 128 is still compressed, did you ever try MP3/AAC with your old setup?
   
  And if you like the way Apple handles TCP/IP packets you may want to try out an Airport when you upgrade your router.


----------



## vinyllp33

I just came across this great vintage vacuum tube book from 1960 online.

It is a 164 page PDF, fascinating reading, those of you with iPads, click on the upper right corner and it will import directly to your iBooks.

http://frank.pocnet.net/other/docs/Tomer_1960_Getting_the_Most_Out_of_Vacuum_Tubes.pdf 

Enjoy!


----------



## sampson_smith

Very, very nice, vinyllp33! I think I will enjoy reading this. It is a great-quality pdf.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I just came across this great vintage vacuum tube book from 1960 online.
> 
> It is a 164 page PDF, fascinating reading, those of you with iPads, click on the upper right corner and it will import directly to your iBooks.
> 
> ...


 

 We understand the allure and spell of Western Electric so, thanks for taking the time to think about your Woo mates. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will head over there right after a snack. Many titles on vacuum tubes have no copyrights or they've begun to expire - it wasn't that big of deal back then to many of those authors.
   
  Looking forward to your next W.E. update...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Very, very nice, vinyllp33! I think I will enjoy reading this. It is a great-quality pdf.


 


_Kudos, whoever did the copying!_


----------



## vinyllp33

Here is another fun one from the same year (1960), The Story of Stereo

http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/Atwood/Sunier%201960%20The%20Story%20of%20Stereo.pdf


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Excellent. The Story of Stereo. Thanks for the links.


----------



## rosgr63

The Tomer book is a bit heavy.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I think the Oppo is a good choice.  My situation is that I want to keep my DAC.  Do you know if it is possible to stream media with the Oppo and bypass the DAC?  If the BDP does not work out, I may try the Oppo.
> 
> What is your listening profile with the Oppo?  Do you use it's DAC as your primary DAC to feed your 5, or do you use something different.  Is the Oppo your primary source?
> 
> Thanks.


 



 I would think that if you send a digital stream out then the Oppo would bypass the DAC's, but I don't know why you would want to bypass those very high end Sabre 32 ES9018 DAC's and the BD-95's 2Ch stereo analog XLR balanced outs that you can run directly to your WA-22.
  If you want to know more about the BD-95 then just go to the AVS BD-95 thread, there you will find your answers and a whole lot more, for streaming, Flac files, etc.
   
  If it was not for my Realiser I would just run my interconnects from my BD-95 directly to my WA5LE. Before I got my Realiser I ran the BD-83SE (Sabre 32 ES9016 Dac.) directly to my WA6SE and also my WA5LE. The Oppo BD-95 uses a 2.2 volt out for RCA analog and I think it would be higher for the XLR analog outs. Also understand that most of my audio is 5.1/7.1 and because the Realiser except these types of audio I run 8 RCA analog audio cables from my BD-95 to my Realiser. However I do use the 2Ch stereo RCA out and run directly to a second RCA input on my WA5LE. Because all the digital and analog ports on the BD-95 are always on I don't have to change any settings, if I want to go from MC to 2Ch stereo.
   
  I use mostly pressed CD/SACD/DVD-A/ Blu Ray disc's, but I do use a USB thumb drive for my music videos. I have never gotten around to hooking up my external HD for streaming music or video/movies, because every form of audio or video I have is on disc's also. I don't use the LAN internet port of the BD-95 to stream audio or video but many of the folks do.
   
  As I suggested to you when you where looking at the PS audio stuff, try the BD-95 if you didn't like it just send it back for a full refund. For $995 the BD-95 is a steal as long as you are going to use it for analog audio, if you just want to use the digital outs then the BD-93 is the way to go (save money). I think what you may find with using the BD-95's Sabre 32 ES9018 DAC's, is that the AQ will be as good if not better than the DAC you have now.
   
  As far as using my Realiser and Dac19 DSP1v5 with my BD-95, is that the Dac's that are in my Realiser (pcm 1794) and in my Dac19 (pcm 1704UK) are very neutral and do nothing to change the sound signature (AQ) coming from my BD-95. If I didn't use the HE-6's then I would have very little need for the DAC19 but I need the 2.5 volts as where the Realiser only outputs 1.8 volts for my HE-6's.
   
  I would recommend the Dac19 DSP1v5 but I guess the pcm 1704UK Dac's have become hard to come by so Audio GD as discontinued that DAC.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If both you and the second owner were unhappy I would be tempted to say you had a bad tube.  One that tested okay but had some issue when it was built that was affecting the sonic performance.  I would not use any of those adjectives to describe my EML 274B.  If asked to contrast my opinion of the same tube against what you have experienced:   I would say it's not the bassiest rectifier I have (though it has the fastest and best controlled bass by far), is easily the clearest and most nuanced, is as fast as my TS 5U4G and and Brimar 5R4GY and sounds very neutral overall (setting aside the slightly wooden sound all EML tubes seem to have in the lower mids).


 
  Yes you could be right, but I have done a lot of reading on the EML 274B mesh plate and there are many folks that said the same thing as I heard. Plus understand I got the EML 274B mesh new.
   
  That said I can understand why you like the EML 274B mesh when using your K701's, as I did when using my K701's with the EML 274B mesh and my WA6SE. What I found when using the K701 was the EML 274B mesh help the K701 by adding bass and helping to control the highs of the K701.
   


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Found a decent conversation here if anyone is interested:
> Emission Labs EML 274B - Pics and small Review vs. Sophia Princess 274B


 

 Yes I agree about the huge sound-stage of the EML 274B mesh, and have said the same thing many times in the past.
   


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Any idea on how to acquire one?


 

 Nope and I am not selling my EML 274B solid plate, It is what I use in my back-up WA6SE.
  That said the EML 274B solid plate is closer to the EML 5U4G, its like in between the EML 274B mesh and the EML 5U4G.mesh.


----------



## Arcamera

Sorry if this has been discussed already (I didn't get through all of this thread), but does anyone have experience with the WA6 and Beyer T1's? I'll be getting the T1's soon and I'm looking for a tube amp ideally under $1,000 that will match well, and will compliment/contrast with my ss Burson HA-160. I've read numerous mentions that the T1's go well with the WA2, but ideally I'm looking for something a little more affordable and compact. But if there is THAT much of a sonic difference between the two-- well then I guess I'll be saving up some more...Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I think the Oppo is a good choice.  My situation is that I want to keep my DAC.  Do you know if it is possible to stream media with the Oppo and bypass the DAC?  If the BDP does not work out, I may try the Oppo.


 
   

 While I haven't tried this I would assume so since I use my Modwright Transporter as a DAC for disc-based music played on my Oppo 95.  I don't see why it would be any different for something streamed.
   
  Mike, can you describe the digital artifacts you are hearing?  Could it be power supply related?  The Touch's stock power supply is not very good.  I immediately upgraded it to the Channel Islands audio piece.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> While I haven't tried this I would assume so since I use my Modwright Transporter as a DAC for disc-based music played on my Oppo 95.  I don't see why it would be any different for something streamed.
> 
> Mike, can you describe the digital artifacts you are hearing?  Could it be power supply related?  The Touch's stock power supply is not very good.  I immediately upgraded it to the Channel Islands audio piece.


 

 I never upgraded the power supply on the Touch.  The reason why is that all streaming media equipment exhibited the same digital artifacts and some of them had exceptionally good power supplies.  So, while I cannot rule it out, my suspicion is that it was not power supply related.
   
  The way I would describe the digital artifact I am hearing is this; there is a sharpness or an edge to the music in total.  It's not that higher frequencies were more pronounced, just that there was this edge to everything. 
   
  Just for fun, I broke out my old headphone rig; its a Musical Fidelity V-Can with a pair of HD650's.  With this pairing, the digital artifacts I was hearing was not apperent to me, but when listening through my WA22 with my HD800's it was there. 
   
  As soon as I moved over to my iTouch/Wadia i170 source, everything smoothed out and I could hear no digital artifacts.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> JC, have you had the chance to compare the EML 274B to the Sophia 274B (Princess)?


 


  Yes, I did compare it with my old Maxxed WA6.  At first I love it but since I acquired the EML version, I have never touch the Princess again.  I was using it with W5000 and HD600, it is a must have tube for W5000.


  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Wow is the WA-22 and the WA6SE that much different. I agree about the EML 5U4G, but I found the EML 274B mesh to be very bass heavy, distorted, slow and colored. Matter of fact the guy I sold my EML 274B mesh to also sold it.
> 
> Now if you are talking about the Nos EML 274 solid plate then that's a different story and a keeper.
> I much preferred the EML 5U4G when using my HD-800's or D7000.
> ...


 

 Probably the tubes combo I'm using on WA22.  When I use it with 6EW7 on WA6, I do not like it at all until I put in the 6FD7.  With 6EW7, it is too soft and bass heavy but that change when using it with 6FD7.
   


  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes you could be right, but I have done a lot of reading on the EML 274B mesh plate and there are many folks that said the same thing as I heard. Plus understand I got the EML 274B mesh new.
> 
> That said I can understand why you like the EML 274B mesh when using your K701's, as I did when using my K701's with the EML 274B mesh and my WA6SE. What I found when using the K701 was the EML 274B mesh help the K701 by adding bass and helping to control the highs of the K701.
> 
> ...


 


  I need to get a hold of the EML 274B solid plate to give it a try but have not found one yet.  I will ping George later this month to see if he have any in stock.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I never upgraded the power supply on the Touch.  The reason why is that all streaming media equipment exhibited the same digital artifacts and some of them had exceptionally good power supplies.  So, while I cannot rule it out, my suspicion is that it was not power supply related.


 

 That would cause me to think that it wasn't the equipment receiving the network data but something earlier in the process.


----------



## rudi0504

Dear Daniel and all my Head Fi Friends 
   
  I have interest to buy Woo Tube Amp for my Cans :
   
  LCD 2, T1 , Hd 650, Hd 580, Shure SRH 940, Audio Technica ES 10, Beyer DT 1350
   
  My Wish List : HD 800 and HE 500
   
  My Headamp :
   
  Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear, Schiit Lyr
   
   
  My wish List in Woo Head Amp are :
   
  WA 22 or WA 5 LE or WA 5 for use Home and Headphone
   
   
  Please advise me which ones is good for my cans LCD 2 , T1 , HD 800 and HE 500
   
  I saw many Head Fier have own WA 22 more than Wa 6 LE and WA 5 LE
   
   
  Thank you for your help 
   
  Cheers


----------



## jc9394

Rudi, if money is no object get the WA5.  I know I would if I have the money...


----------



## rudi0504

Thank you jc9394 for your advise
   
  Is the sound different so big between WA 5 LE and WA 22 ?
   
  I heard the Power from WA 22 only 2 Watt, how big is the Power from WA 5 LE ?
   
  You have HD 800 also , is the WA 22 can drive your HD 800 very good ?
   
  Please advise
   
  Cheers


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> Thank you jc9394 for your advise
> 
> Is the sound different so big between WA 5 LE and WA 22 ?
> 
> ...


 


  I think the WA5 is 5 watts and it use the 300B tubes, which is either hate or love it sound signature.  I personally love it but can't afford it, a pair of EAT 300B is around $1000 and WE is crazy $3000+.
   
  I'm very happy with WA22 and HD800 combo, it takes a while to find a perfect tubes combo for it but I'm done now and enjoying it.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> Thank you jc9394 for your advise
> 
> Is the sound different so big between WA 5 LE and WA 22 ?
> 
> ...


 

 I can't speak to the 5 LE, but can to the WA22 / HD800 paring.
   
  From my perspective, the WA22 / HD800 paring is an excellent combination.  The amp is very well designed and built, and responds very well to changes in tubes which can alter the sound considerably.  I find that music is tonely correct and there is a certain nuance and delicate presentation with the HD800's.


----------



## WindyCityCy

How did upgrading the power supply change things for you?  Is your Touch being fed into a DAC?  I've read conflicting opinions on whether adding a linear power supply would really make a difference if using an external DAC with the Touch.  Most people agree that without an external DAC in the equation the linear power supply can be a good thing.
  
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> While I haven't tried this I would assume so since I use my Modwright Transporter as a DAC for disc-based music played on my Oppo 95.  I don't see why it would be any different for something streamed.
> 
> Mike, can you describe the digital artifacts you are hearing?  Could it be power supply related?  The Touch's stock power supply is not very good.  I immediately upgraded it to the Channel Islands audio piece.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> How did upgrading the power supply change things for you?  Is your Touch being fed into a DAC?  I've read conflicting opinions on whether adding a linear power supply would really make a difference if using an external DAC with the Touch.  Most people agree that without an external DAC in the equation the linear power supply can be a good thing.


 
   
  I did not do a lot of A/Bing with the old and new power supply.  The original PS is a switching supply which I did not like for general reasons.  It causes tons of interference with AM radio, like a dimmer switch.  That was enough for me to replace it.  I know that Bolder cable also has PS upgrades and people have had positive things to say about them.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Probably the tubes combo I'm using on WA22.  When I use it with 6EW7 on WA6, I do not like it at all until I put in the 6FD7.  With 6EW7, it is too soft and bass heavy but that change when using it with 6FD7.
> 
> 
> I need to get a hold of the EML 274B solid plate to give it a try but have not found one yet.  I will ping George later this month to see if he have any in stock.


 
   
  Ok that explains the deference, you are able to use the 6FD7's.
   
  George is who I got my new EML 274B solid plate from, that was about 15 months ago. He had two left one he sold to me the other he is using in one of his amps. However it is my understanding that EML discontinued the 274B solid plate before I got the last one from George. I did try and get George to sell me his EML 274B solid plate about a year ago but he likes it so it was a no go.
   
  So now my EML 274B solid plate and WA6SE maxxed has just been sitting packed away for about 13 months now, because my WA5LE and its very rare ultra high end tubes has been getting all the play time.
  

 btw, I think you are a little lite on the $3000 for a real NOS matched pair of WE300B's with matched date codes like mine (56/26), I am still kicking myself because when I got my pair about a year ago I could have gotten a second pair @ a very reasonable price, but then again I would have never sold the second pair.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> Dear Daniel and all my Head Fi Friends
> 
> I have interest to buy Woo Tube Amp for my Cans :
> 
> ...


 


 My view is that if you're not planning on adding a K1000 or HE-5/6 to your collection there is no reason to spend the extra money on an HE-5/LE, unless you really want to drive speakers with the amp as well then the WA5 would be great and you would also have the option of driving those more demanding headphones with its K1000 jack.


----------



## davo50

Well, I hope no one gets offended for posting this here, but I assume that there may be some WA6 owners or other active posters / readers of this thread who might be interested.  I am selling my WA22 and it's posted in the for sale forum.  I recently had a vintage fisher amp completely re-furbished with the headphone out re-wired directly to the 16 ohm taps.  Still not a WA22, but very good.
   
  Thanks,
  David


----------



## Sesam

Quote:


sillysally said:


> Wow is the WA-22 and the WA6SE that much different. I agree about the EML 5U4G, but I found the EML 274B mesh to be very bass heavy, distorted, slow and colored. Matter of fact the guy I sold my EML 274B mesh to also sold it.
> 
> Now if you are talking about the Nos EML 274 solid plate then that's a different story and a keeper.
> I much preferred the EML 5U4G when using my HD-800's or D7000.
> ...


   

 Ok now you have me worried, I wouldn't mind a slight bass boost, however I don't like my music too bass heavy or colored either. As I already ordered a few days ago, it would be rather bothersome to the seller if I cancelled it now, so I will just take a gamble and see how it goes. I'm stocked up with 6080WC, 7236 power tubes and Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z drivers.. Hopefully these will be a good match with the EML 274B mesh, if the sound is not to my taste I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to sell it.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> Dear Daniel and all my Head Fi Friends
> 
> I have interest to buy Woo Tube Amp for my Cans :
> 
> ...


 

 The WA-5 is pretty much magic combo with the HE-6 (Sorry I don't have HE-500 but I am told they are similar), here I recommend the WA-5 straight up so you can use the K1K port for HE-6s and LCD-2.  If you tell Jack you want to use with HE-6/500 and LCD-2 with K1K port I am sure he can optimize it for you.  The HD-800's work pretty good to me out of the WA-5, it has a little bit of brightness but on the WA-5 it isn't bad, suffice to say though these aren't my favorite cans.  I will also add that having the speaker outs will also be a nice touch as well, cause 300Bs just give you a very smooth and beautiful midrange sounds great with some efficient speakers.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> sillysally said:
> ...


 



 Don't be to worried, we all go through tube rolling to find what best suits are individual tastes and works best with are gears and headphones.
   
  When I first got my WA6SE and WA5LE and tubes, I ended up changing the tubes that I first got in both amps. I think in most cases, most of us have done that. You can always sell the tubes you don't like.
   
  Always keep in mind that there are some folks that like the EML 274B mesh plate and or have found other tubes like diver tubes that will complement the EML 274B mesh for there tastes.


----------



## rudi0504

Quote: 





wedge said:


> The WA-5 is pretty much magic combo with the HE-6 (Sorry I don't have HE-500 but I am told they are similar), here I recommend the WA-5 straight up so you can use the K1K port for HE-6s and LCD-2.  If you tell Jack you want to use with HE-6/500 and LCD-2 with K1K port I am sure he can optimize it for you.  The HD-800's work pretty good to me out of the WA-5, it has a little bit of brightness but on the WA-5 it isn't bad, suffice to say though these aren't my favorite cans.  I will also add that having the speaker outs will also be a nice touch as well, cause 300Bs just give you a very smooth and beautiful midrange sounds great with some efficient speakers.


 
  Dear Wedge and all Friends 
   
  Thank you all for your advise for WOO WA 5 and i will follow your suggestioin  to take WA 5.
   
  What is the Meaning of K 1 K Jack for LCD 2 and He6/500 ?
   
  Can this  K 1 K Jack install only at Wa 5 or can also install in Wa 22 ?
   
  Please advise
   
  Cheers


----------



## vinyllp33

The K1K jack on the WA5 takes full power from the 300B tubes which equates to 8 watts per channel into the AKG K1000 (120ohm impedance) and 6 watts per channel into the 50ohm load of the HE6 and LCD2; In comparison the 1/4in jack supplies a maximum of 1.5 watts per channel.
   
  The WA22 cannot develop this amount of wattage, so while it already has the same type of 4-pin XLR already installed it does not have the power to fully drive HE-6's but should do HE-500's with no problem as they are a bit more efficient.
   
  However if you can give the HE-6's what they need in terms of power, (i.e.WA5), I think you will be hard pressed to find a better combination.
   
  And the WA5 also sounds quite impressive with many other phones, Grado, T1, HD800, etc.


----------



## Wedge

K1K port was designed to power the AKG K1000, this also works very well with the HE-6.  It uses a 4 pin XLR, but it is not a balanced port, but it delivers close to 6W into a 50 Ohm load which really works wonders for the HE-6, and to me works well with the LCD-2.


----------



## vinyllp33

x2


----------



## grokit

But the K1000 port not really _needed_ for the LCD-2 like it is for the K1000 / HE-5/6. My WA22 powers the LCD-2 just fine; the K1000 / HE-5/6 not so much.


----------



## Wedge

It is not needed but it works with it, and well I kind of feel like the WA-5 does the best all around job powering all the various cans out there so far.  Some pairings better than others, like I still think the LCD-2 with Leben is better than WA-5 and LCD-2, but the WA-5 and other cans are better than Leben in some cases.


----------



## Nova13

Help!!
   
  I am having REALLY reduced volume in my right channel suddenly - and I think I've narrowed it down to being my 5 month old Beyerdynamic dt880 breaking without reason.  I feel like I've done enough to rule out it being the fault of my WA3....but maybe I have not thought of everything, and it is in fact the WA3.
   
  If a few of you wouldn't mind checking out my other thread (I speak in more detail about what i've tried to fix it), I'd REALLY appreciate it:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/560494/beyerdynamic-dt880-damaged-right-channel#post_7572365
   
  Woo! ;(


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Help!!
> 
> I am having REALLY reduced volume in my right channel suddenly - and I think I've narrowed it down to being my 5 month old Beyerdynamic dt880 breaking without reason.  I feel like I've done enough to rule out it being the fault of my WA3....but maybe I have not thought of everything, and it is in fact the WA3.
> 
> ...


 

 Not sure if your cans are 600 ohms, but I would certainly try plugging the Beyers into another source for a listen. This way you'll know where to direct your focus.


----------



## spagetka

Well, be prepare for another investment around $2000 (EAT/WE 300B $1000+, 5U4G $500+, 6sn7 $400+  plus some other drivers to try) to find out what will suits you the best.
   
  Good luck!   
   





   
   
  Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> Dear Wedge and all Friends
> 
> Thank you all for your advise for WOO WA 5 and i will follow your suggestioin  to take WA 5.
> 
> ...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> Help!!
> 
> I am having REALLY reduced volume in my right channel suddenly - and I think I've narrowed it down to being my 5 month old Beyerdynamic dt880 breaking without reason.  I feel like I've done enough to rule out it being the fault of my WA3....but maybe I have not thought of everything, and it is in fact the WA3.
> 
> ...


 


 Eric, I read the above referenced post and those who responded missed one important fact. You say that the spare "crappy" headphones work with equal power albeit poor quality compared to the dt880s. This leads me to think the problem is with the dt880 1/4" jack or perhaps cable and (hopefully not) the drivers.
  Can you get your hands on an ohmeter, or a good mulimeter? If so, you could test the jack, cable and lastly the drivers. This should confirm if it's the cans or hopefully a loose or bad connection in the 1/4" jack.
   
  John M


----------



## Nova13

Wow.... All I can say is Wow.
   
  thank you first to everyone here and all your advice.  I do believe we had it narrowed down to a bad set of cans - not sure which piece, but anyways....
   
  Thanks secondly to Amazon.com - the second best company I've ever dealt with (just behind Jack and the guys at Wooaudio.com, obviously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  I purchased my dt880's in late January of this year.  Here it is at the end of June.   Not only is Amazon.com replacing my headphones for me - they are OVERNIGHTING my return - it will be here tomorrow!  All I have to do then is print a return label (with shipping paid for on their dime) and toss my dead cans back in the box that the new ones came in and hand it to the postman.  This is truly amazing.  They don't even need my return in hand before sending out the replacements.  Wow.


----------



## MacedonianHero

davo50 said:


> Well, I hope no one gets offended for posting this here, but I assume that there may be some WA6 owners or other active posters / readers of this thread who might be interested.  I am selling my WA22 and it's posted in the for sale forum.  I recently had a vintage fisher amp completely re-furbished with the headphone out re-wired directly to the 16 ohm taps.  Still not a WA22, but very good.
> 
> Thanks,
> David




Well, happy to report that David's WA22 is now mine. 

Can't wait to get it setup in my system.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well, happy to report that David's WA22 is now mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Peter, THANK YOU so much for buying the WA22... so I didn't have to.


----------



## MacedonianHero

olias of sunhillow said:


> Peter, THANK YOU so much for buying the WA22... so I didn't have to.




LoL.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well, happy to report that David's WA22 is now mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congratulations!!! Is your WA22 the stock version or Premium Parts Upgrade version? I am sure whichever WA22 you have you will be completely satisfied.


----------



## Icenine2

There is no premium parts upgrade for the 22.  That's a DIY.


----------



## MacedonianHero

icenine2 said:


> There is no premium parts upgrade for the 22.  That's a DIY.




Exactly.

Since it shares the same power tubes as my WA2, looks like I'm good to go there. If anyone is interested, my WA2 is up for sale on the F/S forum.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> There is no premium parts upgrade for the 22.  That's a DIY.


 
  That's right. I should have known that.


----------



## grokit

I think there used to be some premium parts upgrades for the WA22, but they aren't available from Woo anymore.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's right. I should have known that.


 

 Clayton, you scared the hell out of me.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well, happy to report that David's WA22 is now mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, great news.  When is it due?  What headphones are you using?


----------



## vinyllp33

Greetings fellow Woo owners.
   
  In case anyone here is interested I posted an EML 5U4G in the For Sale Forums under Cables, etc.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> Ok, great news.  When is it due?  What headphones are you using?




Shipped out today FedEX (Thanks again davo50! ), so should be early-mid next week.

I plan on using it to drive my HD800, T1s, LCD-2s and Ed. 8s. I plan on keeping my Lyr to power my HE-6s and LCD-2s, but I'm thinking my Concerto might left out in the cold. I plan to do a A-B-C-D comparison between all of my amps before I sell my WA2 and Concerto off.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Greetings fellow Woo owners.
> 
> In case anyone here is interested I posted an EML 5U4G in the For Sale Forums under Cables, etc.


 

 Who Dat kickin' 5U4G punts like that...?! Does this mean the W.E. rec is a keeper?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Clayton, you scared the hell out of me.


 
  Actually I scared myself as well. That's what happens when you own a WA2, 4, 6, 22. I got the 2 mixed up with the 22. Thank gawd I don't have the 5 series. ('cause I'm waiting for the new one). Just waiting, mind you. Jus' to see what Jack has up his sleeves. Who's going to guess the name of the new Woo?


----------



## vinyllp33

I have one pair of EML 5U4G still in active use; But yes, I am selling my spare pair as I just went out on a limb and purchased a back up pair of NOS Western Electric 422A.
   
  They are definitely a keeper, detailed info on these is hard to come by, as are the tubes. And everyone (thinks) they want the WE 274B so those still remain more well known and even more $$$.
   
  The unique aspect of the 422A is that while it is a true 5U4G sub in all ways it is has _indirectly _heated cathodes like a 5AR4/GZ34.
   
  If I had to describe its attributes it would be combining the best aspects of both type or tubes: the slam and drive of a GZ34 with the more meaty sound of a 5U4G.
   
  Notice I did not say EML 5U4G as this, IMO, is an entirely different animal as compared to even a good quality NOS 5U4G.
   
  Now what do I like better? I am not into constant tube rolling per se, yes I do experiment with different types but once I settle in with the right combination I just let it ride and enjoy the tunes.
   
  With that being said, and letting everyone know that I have only used K1000 and HE-6 off the high-power output of the WA5 thus, the WE is hands down better in all ways with the K1000's.
   
  Now the HE-6's can go either way depending on the musical selection, I would not describe the 422A as being warmer than the EML but there is definitely a more forceful sound and even greater body and weight perceived with no loss of transparency or openness on top.  Again, this does not mean warmer as say a RCA 5U4G would be as compared to the EML.
   
  I also find that with both phones, especially with the HE-6's, there is more of a "jump factor" in that certain aspects of a recording can come out of nowhere and really take you by surprise. Not to imply that the EML is "polite" in any way but it tends (by comparison) to excel in the areas of detail retrieval and delicate filigree. I really wish I had some way of switching on the fly as I use the HE-6's these days more than any of my other phones and one could make the argument for both rectifiers depending on recording or mood.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Shipped out today FedEX (Thanks again davo50!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That comparison will be a classic here on the forum as a lot of people are asking for comparisons, especially between the WA2 and WA22.
   
  It would be great to hear what you have to say about headphone pairings too.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Actually I scared myself as well. That's what happens when you own a WA2, 4, 6, 22. I got the 2 mixed up with the 22. Thank gawd I don't have the 5 series. ('cause I'm waiting for the new one). Just waiting, mind you. Jus' to see what Jack has up his sleeves. Who's going to guess the name of the new Woo?


 


 There already is a 6 and I think Jack will skip 7 and go to the 8 series.  This makes perfect sense because then we'd all be Woo 8'ing for it (snark, snark).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I have one pair of EML 5U4G still in active use; But yes, I am selling my spare pair as I just went out on a limb and purchased a back up pair of NOS Western Electric 422A.
> 
> They are definitely a keeper, detailed info on these is hard to come by, as are the tubes. And everyone (thinks) they want the WE 274B so those still remain more well known and even more $$$.
> 
> ...


 

 WE422A ~
   
  You've got me leaning _way out west._..


----------



## vinyllp33

Photos to follow once I get home!


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> That comparison will be a classic here on the forum as a lot of people are asking for comparisons, especially between the WA2 and WA22.
> 
> It would be great to hear what you have to say about headphone pairings too.




I will do my best...may not be up to Rob's (Skylab) or Ross's (baka1969) standards, but I will try to convey the differences that I hear with as many of my headphones that I can. Good thing I'm on vacation next week.


----------



## vinyllp33

Here are some pics of my newly scored pair: 
   

   
  From what I have found there are actually three variations of the 422A, the first ones from the mid 1950's had a single bottom box getter; Then sometime in the sixties they changed to a bottom dual-box getter. 
   
  Finally around 1970 they kept the dual bottom getters but changed to a round (halo) type, I don't know how or if this affects the sound but all of my observations are from this design. 
   
  I know these were produced into the early eighties, (the Western Electric Kansas City plant closed and ceased production of all tubes in 1988) the difference being that after 1979 the old-style, original WE logo on the base was replaced with the more "modern" style as pictured on the boxes above. 
   
  Also a side note on the "reissue" WE 300Bs: When they were put back into production in 1997 it was at this same Kansas City plant that opened in 1962 with original tooling, parts and with many of the same employees. They were manufactured there until 2002 when the KC factory closed for good, they then relocated to Huntsville Alabama and resumed operation in 2004 until 2008. They do plan to start production again (hopefully) at a newly renovated facility by the same owner in Chattanooga, TN. 
   
  So we have several different WE 300B varieties to choose from: original Engraved Base (late 30s-1940s, the most holiest of holy and priced accordingly), the standard base that is mostly often encountered (these can be anywhere from 1950's to mid 1980's production), Original Reissue Kansas City Plant (1997-2002) and finally Second Reissue Huntsville Alabama Plant (2004-2008). 
   
  Now there is no need to debate that the "originals" are better than the reissues, (they are) but any of them (including "new" production) are getting hard to track down for anything approaching reasonable prices.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Interesting that the plates look exactly like the plates of a Tung Sol 5998 power tube.  Wonder if TS manufactured this for WE.
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Here are some pics of my newly scored pair:


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I will do my best...may not be up to Rob's (Skylab) or Ross's (baka1969) standards, but I will try to convey the differences that I hear with as many of my headphones that I can. Good thing I'm on vacation next week.


 


  Would love to hear your impressions on LCD-2's synergy with the WA22's output tube choices.  Based on my time around the forum I believe you and I have pretty similar ears.


----------



## vinyllp33

Yes, the plates do look the same as a Tung Sol 5998/ WE 421A but I don't think Tung Sol ever manufactured this series of tube, in fact they had long ceased operations well before this set was made.


----------



## MacedonianHero

xcalibur255 said:


> Would love to hear your impressions on LCD-2's synergy with the WA22's output tube choices.  Based on my time around the forum I believe you and I have pretty similar ears.




I'm thinking my 7236s would be the better tubes for the LCD-2s, but for my T1/HD800/Ed.8s, I'm thinking my TS5998s might be a better match...we shall see.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Here are some pics of my newly scored pair:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Dessert before dinner? Lovely! We really do appreciate the effort, vinyllp33. I contacted W.E. last month and was informed that while they can't make any unofficial comments as to dates this year, their efforts to relaunch are going well. Tube availability will play a role in my next tube amp - want a 300B amp but will get what we get and be satisfied.
   
  Right now though, I want that 422A in my Woo!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I will do my best...may not be up to Rob's (Skylab) or Ross's (baka1969) standards, but I will try to convey the differences that I hear with as many of my headphones that I can. Good thing I'm on vacation next week.


 

 I'm sure you will do just fine as we are all friends here.  I'm interested in what you have to say.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Photos to follow once I get home!


 

 Very nice looking tubes, they sure look like NOS. If they are NOS it will take a week plus to burn them in.
   
  Your 422A's WE imprint is facing the back of your amp, same as my WE300B's.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Dessert before dinner? Lovely! We really do appreciate the effort, vinyllp33.* I contacted W.E. last month and was informed that while they can't make any unofficial comments as to dates this year, their efforts to relaunch are going well. Tube availability will play a role in my next tube amp* - want a 300B amp but will get what we get and be satisfied.
> 
> Right now though, I want that 422A in my Woo!


 

 X2. The re-manufacture of the WE 300B would definitely have a bearing on my interest in ultimately upgrading to a WA5 system (or not).


----------



## mikemalter

New stuff in the house!
   
  Am now using the new Bryston BDP-1 and it sounds very promising.  I have found that the digital artifacts I was hearing with several media streaming devices and DAC's are gone.  My media library is now crystal clear.  I am also hearing nuances that were not audible previously.  One of my favorite opera albums, Andrea Bocelli is a case in point.  I know it's a human singing because its self evident, however, an interesting thing when I played it for the first time through the BDP, it _sounded _like a human singing, I could hear that nasalness or fullness of voice not previously heard.  So I am excited about its possibilities.  It's still too soon to tell, but if everything keeps going the way it has been, audible digital artifacts associated with gettng music to my WA22 are over.
   
  That said, here is the kicker.  My DLIII is either an upsampling or downsampling dac.  That is, the digital stream is always either upsampled or downsampled to whatever is set on the front panel, either 96 or 192.  The kicker is if I stream coax 24/96 to it, the DAC downsamples it to 16/48, and then upsamples it to 24/96, it never plays 24/96 directly.  So now that I have a clean source of digital from my media library, I need upgrade my DAC to play resolutions directly.
   
  In a conversation with the folks over at Audio Advisor (I got the BDP-1 there) they made a good case for the Bryston DAC, and since they said it's a no questions asked return policy, I accepted his invitation to try the DAC.  That came today and I have to say that just out of the box, it sounds very clear and fun to listen to.  It's also a relief to be able to start taking advantage of my hi rez music library, which sounds spectacular.  I am also trying the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and that will be here tomorrow.  They were also cool with me auditioning it, however, it will be a 15% restocking fee there. 
   
  For the first time I am beginning to enjoy the promise of the convenience of access to my digital media and really good sound.
   
  The picture below is the Bryston DAC, on top of the BDP-1.  There is is of course my Woo and next to it my P5 power regenerator.
   
  I'll be posting breakin notes and comparisons from time to time.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Mike what are those speakers in the back of the photo?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> New stuff in the house!
> <...>


 
  All right, Mike, you have now left me in the dust.
  Your new stuff looks like it's 17 inches wide. (I cheated--I read the specs.)
  It's dwarfing your WA22. Although the 22 is much higher.


----------



## dminches

warriorant said:


> Mike what are those speakers in the back of the photo?




They look like vandersteen 2CEs.


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike what are those speakers in the back of the photo?


 

 I'll guess-- Vandersteens?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dminches said:


> They look like vandersteen 2CEs.


 

 That's what I thought.   IMO Vandersteens are the best value for the buck.  Very musical line.


----------



## dminches

I have owned Vandersteens since 1985 and recently treated myself to a pair of 3 year old 5As for my 50th.


----------



## mikemalter

Clayton, there is no way, no matter what I get ever, to leave you in the dust.
   
  Yeah, they are Vandersteen 2CE's and they are mated with a pair of Vandersteen subs so I get 20 kHz to 20 Hz out of them.  I have a pair of 3ASigs downstairs.
   
  Dminches; you are the lucky one - a pair of 5A's!  That has to be nice.
   
  Warrior, I very much agree with you about Vandersteen's, I love those speakers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> New stuff in the house!
> 
> Am now using the new Bryston BDP-1 and it sounds very promising.  I have found that the digital artifacts I was hearing with several media streaming devices and DAC's are gone.  My media library is now crystal clear.  I am also hearing nuances that were not audible previously.  One of my favorite opera albums, Andrea Bocelli is a case in point.  I know it's a human singing because its self evident, however, an interesting thing when I played it for the first time through the BDP, it _sounded _like a human singing, I could hear that nasalness or fullness of voice not previously heard.  So I am excited about its possibilities.  It's still too soon to tell, but if everything keeps going the way it has been, audible digital artifacts associated with gettng music to my WA22 are over.
> 
> ...


 

 Today's snacks ~
   
  In between popcorn... _more candy!   _


----------



## vinyllp33

Congrats Mike on your new acquisition(s).
   
  High Res music and Woo Audio are certainly made for each other.
   
  And having it conveniently accessible is the icing on the cake. 
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## mikemalter

Speaking of ripped music, there is a very interesting site that sells DAC's and whatnot, and they offer some interesting audio that is high rez at http://www.lessloss.com/high-resolution-audiophile-recordings-c-68.html.  I also liked their articles on digital topics.


----------



## mikemalter

More here at: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Complimentary-241764-HRx-Downloads-Courtesy-Reference-Recordings


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks for the links!


----------



## PanamaRed

Beautiful stuff Mike.
   
  P.S. I've been on your regimen of listening at low volumes and really enjoy it. I'm now safely situated in the 4-5 click range.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Beautiful stuff Mike.
> 
> P.S. I've been on your regimen of listening at low volumes and really enjoy it. I'm now safely situated in the 4-5 click range.


 

 I needed to take my own advice last night.
   
  Interesting link to an article about how hi rez downloads might not be as hi rez as advertized: http://www.itrax.com/Pages/ArticleDetails.php?aID=32


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I needed to take my own advice last night.
> 
> Interesting link to an article about how hi rez downloads might not be as hi rez as advertized: http://www.itrax.com/Pages/ArticleDetails.php?aID=32


 
   
  Thanks for the link, Mike. I've been following this issue for a few months now. I know that several albums I downloaded as "high-rez" from HDTracks have been pulled -- mostly ECM releases. FWIW, there's an ongoing thread at ComputerAudiophile that provides spectral analysis of many new high-rez download offerings. I'd say about 2/3s appear to be legit, and the other 1/3 have legitimate questions.
   
  One quibble... I don't know that I agree with the following quote from the itrax.com article -- any thoughts, group? "Every analog tape recording is standard definition (limited dynamic range and frequency response) thus transferring it to an HD bucket is pointless…unless the company juices the frequency response somehow."


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Thanks for the link, Mike. I've been following this issue for a few months now. I know that several albums I downloaded as "high-rez" from HDTracks have been pulled -- mostly ECM releases. FWIW, there's an ongoing thread at ComputerAudiophile that provides spectral analysis of many new high-rez download offerings. I'd say about 2/3s appear to be legit, and the other 1/3 have legitimate questions.
> 
> One quibble... I don't know that I agree with the following quote from the itrax.com article -- any thoughts, group? "Every analog tape recording is standard definition (limited dynamic range and frequency response) thus transferring it to an HD bucket is pointless…unless the company juices the frequency response somehow."


 

 Olias, what is your thinking about the analog tape issue?


----------



## grokit

Analog tape is lot like vinyl; while the frequency response and dynamic range can be limited, these formats are capable of fantastic resolution levels that definitely justify the higher sample rates. As an example analog tape recorders in recording studios used 2" wide tape reels in many instances, that's a lot of reproduction capability.
   
  It really depends on the quality of the recording and what tweaks have been applied to the master tape if that's what we are digitizing from. If re-mastering from the original mix tapes is an option then the higher sample rates are more justified. Conversely, if we are digitizing from the original master tapes those are usually compressed by bandpass filters and other limitations so riaa/redbook may be more appropriate.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Analog tape is lot like vinyl; while the frequency response and dynamic range can be limited, these formats are capable of fantastic resolution levels that definitely justify the higher sample rates. As an example analog tape recorders in recording studios used 2" wide tape reels in many instances, that's a lot of reproduction capability.


 


  or the Naka Dragon.  I really need to get mines service (tune up)...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Analog tape is lot like vinyl; while the frequency response and dynamic range can be limited, these formats are capable of fantastic resolution levels that definitely justify the higher sample rates. As an example analog tape recorders in recording studios used 2" wide tape reels in many instances, that's a lot of reproduction capability.


 


  I have to agree.   Analog tape is a surprising beast.  It deserves the higher sample rates.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Olias, what is your thinking about the analog tape issue?


 

 Pretty much what grokit said -- while analog tape _can_ have limited frequency response and dynamic range, it's not a hard limitation like 16/44.1 redbook digital, and often much better. The suitability of analog tapes for high-def transfer varies with each recording and each piece of physical media -- a subtlety that seems to be lost on the author of that blog entry.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Pretty much what grokit said -- while analog tape _can_ have limited frequency response and dynamic range, it's not a hard limitation like 16/44.1 redbook digital, and often much better. The suitability of analog tapes for high-def transfer varies with each recording and each piece of physical media -- a subtlety that seems to be lost on the author of that blog entry.


 

 He was probably trying to make his point by taking a harder line.
   
  I was a little chagrined to read that vendors are misleading their customers by selling audio at a cost premium which is upsampled from lower frequency and sample sized cuts.  I was surprised to hear that HD Tracks seemed like the biggest offender and as a result I started to look to other vendors for my downloads as previously they were my go-to source.
   
  From my perspective this proved to be a good thing as I did not realize there were so many other vendors out there and a lot of educational material on the subject.  Right now I am downloading a 24/192  FLAC studio master of Wagner's Der Ring from Linn.  Should be a wild ride, yes?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> He was probably trying to make his point by taking a harder line.
> 
> I was a little chagrined to read that vendors are misleading their customers by selling audio at a cost premium which is upsampled from lower frequency and sample sized cuts.  I was surprised to hear that HD Tracks seemed like the biggest offender and as a result I started to look to other vendors for my downloads as previously they were my go-to source.
> 
> From my perspective this proved to be a good thing as I did not realize there were so many other vendors out there and a lot of educational material on the subject.  Right now I am downloading a 24/192  FLAC studio master of Wagner's Der Ring from Linn.  Should be a wild ride, yes?


 

 Agreed about taking a harder line. I think it hurts his ability to speak authoritatively on the subject, though.
   
  HDTracks seems to have been more careful about this recently. I'm back to trusting them on 24/96 releases -- the new Allison Krauss sounds great, though I haven't looked at the files too carefully yet.
   
  I just grabbed Ensemble Meridiana's recent recording of Telemann from Linn in 24/192. It sounds excellent, though I'm leaning toward 24/96 downloads as the sweet spot for me (mostly from a bandwith standpoint, as I'm on a hick town ISP that limits my throughput).


----------



## Silent One

Earlier this week, I read the iTrax article (The Patrice Rushen Trio iTrax file sounds great, by the way) and the British Mag's article on the story. At Computer Audiophile we basically have two issues.Vendors are simply not showing provenance - by not doing their homework, they're as guilty as their suppliers.
   
  Additionally, there's the premium offered on top of the original premium for hi-rez. Do you ponder the original offering at 88.2 or 96kHz and think maybe you'll spring for their counterparts at 176.4 & 192 kHz?! 
   
  The second issue we have is the industry has failed to adopt a standard defining what is or is not HD. Clearly, the two issues are related and impacts four different parties - Labels, Suppliers, Vendors & Customers. I think there hasn't been any rush to the conference table because some of the interests inside the industry will have to leave some money on the table. _Walk away from extra dough... who does that?!_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> <...>
> From my perspective this proved to be a good thing as I did not realize there were so many other vendors out there and a lot of educational material on the subject.  Right now I am downloading a 24/192  FLAC studio master of Wagner's Der Ring from Linn.  Should be a wild ride, yes?


 

 So what happens when I download a 24/192 file and play it on my PWT > DLIII (which is set to 24/192) > WA22. Is the PSAudio DAC reconverting 24/192 file to 24/192 introducing who knows what into the mix?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> or the Naka Dragon.  I really need to get mines service (tune up)...


 


  I'm about to service my Nak 480Z even though I haven't used it in at least 18 years...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So what happens when I download a 24/192 file and play it on my PWT > DLIII (which is set to 24/192) > WA22. Is the PSAudio DAC reconverting 24/192 file to 24/192 introducing who knows what into the mix?


 


  I believe you meant to type "192/24 > 48/16 > 192/24" as your concern. If not, I'll humbly return to consuming my _Cinnamon Brown Pecan Waffles w/Pure Canadian Maple Syrup...  _


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Agreed about taking a harder line. I think it hurts his ability to speak authoritatively on the subject, though.
> 
> HDTracks seems to have been more careful about this recently. I'm back to trusting them on 24/96 releases -- the new Allison Krauss sounds great, though I haven't looked at the files too carefully yet.
> 
> I just grabbed Ensemble Meridiana's recent recording of Telemann from Linn in 24/192. It sounds excellent, though I'm leaning toward 24/96 downloads as the sweet spot for me (mostly from a bandwith standpoint, as I'm on a hick town ISP that limits my throughput).


 

 I'll take a look at Ensemble Meridina, thanks.
   
  Yeah, I get the bandwidth thing - took a very long time to download.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I believe you meant to type "192/24 > 48/16 > 192/24" as your concern. If not, I'll humbly return to consuming my _Cinnamon Brown Pecan Waffles w/Pure Canadian Maple Syrup...  _


 

 Good catch. Yes. If that's what my DAC is doing. You may now stop consuming _your Cinnamon Brown Pecan Waffles w/Pure Canadian Maple Syrup... _--In the afternoon?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So what happens when I download a 24/192 file and play it on my PWT > DLIII (which is set to 24/192) > WA22. Is the PSAudio DAC reconverting 24/192 file to 24/192 introducing who knows what into the mix?


 

 Clayton, I just went through this with my DLIII and from my research on the PS Audio boards, here is what I found out.  It downsamples it to 16/48 and then upsamples it to whatever you have the setting on the front panel for.  This is the main reason I am replacing the DLIII now. 
   
  When I was streaming 16/44.1 this DAC made sense for me.  However, now I want to decode higher resolution and sample size recordings so I'm auditioning two DAC's the Bryston and the W4S DAC-2.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good catch. Yes. If that's what my DAC is doing. You may now stop consuming _your Cinnamon Brown Pecan Waffles w/Pure Canadian Maple Syrup... _--In the afternoon?


 


 X2!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good catch. Yes. If that's what my DAC is doing. You may now stop consuming _your Cinnamon Brown Pecan Waffles w/Pure Canadian Maple Syrup... _--In the afternoon?


 

 Was deep inside the listening room all night/morning. First, there was the Woo factor - and some very good music. Then reading to catch up on the hefty Pioneer. In bed @ 0800 hours; rose@ 12 noon. Do I get a pass?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Was deep inside the listening room all night/morning. First, there was the Woo factor - and some very good music. Then reading to catch up on the hefty Pioneer. In bed @ 0800 hours; rose@ 12 noon. Do I get a pass?


 
  You get a pass and then some for bagging that hefty Pioneer. Congrats on the _non_-Woo! Variety is the spice of life and so is _cinnamon_!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> X2!!!!!!!!


 

 Another great avatar!
   
  I drink tea from gaiwans (lidded tea bowls) but had no idea about coffee bowls. Looks like a Coder's delight!


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I drink tea from gaiwans (lidded tea bowls) but had no idea about coffee bowls. Looks like a Coder's delight!


 


 Seriously. That looks like a gigantic latte. What kind of beast of a machine makes that beautiful crema?
   
  P.S. http://www.thebestcoffee.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27_79&products_id=758
   
  Not sure why they have such a goofy url. This is a local place I go to. The family grows / roasts their own beans.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Another great avatar!
> 
> I drink tea from gaiwans (lidded tea bowls) but had no idea about coffee bowls. Looks like a Coder's delight!


 

 I love lidded tea bowls. 
   
  The world gets to see me through the eyes and photographic skills of my wife.  Coffee bowls are really great.  My wife likes almond milk with her coffee, so I froth it up for her and this was my morning offering.  For me I prefer an espresso ristretto, double shot.
  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Seriously. That looks like a gigantic latte. What kind of beast of a machine makes that beautiful crema?
> P.S. http://www.thebestcoffee.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27_79&products_id=758
> 
> Not sure why they have such a goofy url. This is a local place I go to. The family grows / roasts their own beans.


 

 I'll have to look into them.  The website actually looks pretty snazzy.
   
  Here is where I go: http://www.espressovivace.com/intro.html.  The Owner David Schomer blogs alot about coffee, and has written a few books about it.  I get the Espresso Dolce grind.
   
  My machine is a dream machine; really.  Other than my WA22, it's the best piece of hardware I have ever owned.  It is called (ta da!) the Mini Vivaldi II, and is produced by La Spaziale.  It is a double boiler machine so the water for steaming can stay really hot, hot, hot; and the water for coffee stays at 195 on the dot.  The only issue is that I should have gotten the one that is plumed which would have doubled the size of the boilers.  A lot of room is taken up by a plastic reservoir.
   
  The crema is because of the beans, they are a blend and are blended to give extra crema.  The coffee is rarely bitter if ever, and I do a 20 second pull and I'm in heaven.


----------



## valtopps

any of you guys want to sell your wooaudio wa3?


----------



## PanamaRed

http://cgi.ebay.com/WOO-AUDIO-3-TUBE-HEADPHONE-AMP-EXTRAS-/200622782574?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb60cb86e
   
  You sir have 14 minutes (Not Mine)


----------



## valtopps

isnt $435.00 a lot for a used wa3?  new there 495.00


----------



## IceClass

Quote: 





valtopps said:


> isnt $435.00 a lot for a used wa3?  new there 495.00


 


   
 [size=medium]The laws of supply and demand trump all but that said, it's more than I'd pay for a second hand Woo3.
  At that price I'd spring for the extra dollars and get a new one.​[/size]


----------



## vinyllp33

VERY Nice machine Mike, I have been eyeing one of those up.

I use a manual La Pavoni Pro, you can get few good pulls per session and have two or three really good espressos. But there is nothing consistent about it when it comes to stable water temperature; That must be a huge perk!

I have often pondered about the many parallels between the espresso ritual and vacuum tube equipment.


----------



## valtopps

iceclass , thats what i was thinking.  but it would be nice to find one of you guys ready to upgrade your amp


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> VERY Nice machine Mike, I have been eyeing one of those up.
> 
> I use a manual La Pavoni Pro, you can get few good pulls per session and have two or three really good espressos. But there is nothing consistent about it when it comes to stable water temperature; That must be a huge perk!
> 
> I have often pondered about the many parallels between the espresso ritual and vacuum tube equipment.


 

 As long as you get a few good pulls out of it, that is all that really matters, right?
   
  Yeah, coffee beans seem to turn over as quickly as tubes, right?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





valtopps said:


> iceclass , thats what i was thinking.  but it would be nice to find one of you guys ready to upgrade your anp


 


  x2!
   
  I'm with valtopps and would have made the same inquiry. There are some owners (you know who you are) that quietly think about upgrading... a lot! Granted, some need to take other things into consideration before making a move. And the remaining owners? _Green light purchase or no.... need to be pushed!  _


----------



## valtopps

i also want to upgrade my sennheiser hd595 to a hd 600 or hd650 just cant find any, if i do they want as much as i can buy it new?
  the only thing i was able to find is a hrt mustic stream II+ i guess i was lucky there.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Mike
   
  Did your DAC-2 show up today?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Mike
> 
> Did your DAC-2 show up today?


 

  
  (_Silent One quietly joins WindyCityCy and waits for a reply..._)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Mike
> 
> Did your DAC-2 show up today?


 

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> (_Silent One quietly joins WindyCityCy and waits for a reply..._)


 

 Hey guys, it did and I have been playing it and burning it in ever since.  So now I have the Bryston and the W4S DAC's going.  Both DAC's are very nice.
   
  The Bryston folks say they put 100 hours on all of their stuff before they ship, and the W4S folks say it takes at least 200 hours before you can begin to hear its potential.
   
  Here is a picture of the workbench.  The headphone amp on the Bryston DAC is my old Musical Fidelity X-Can V2, which by the way still sounds nice with the HD800.  I'm using the X-Can so the DAC can has something attached to it that is on as per Clint at W4S.  I don't want to leave my Woo on all the time just to break in the DAC, so it's only on when I am listening.
   
  One really great feature of the W4S DAC is that I can plug my balanced amplifier directly into it and I get my full system back.  From a listening perspective (again I say it is very early in the game yet) the W4S sounds very musical with headphones and really crappy in my system which was surprising in that I thought audio quality would be about the same.  Why it sounded so musical in my Woo but so bad with my speaker amplifier I don't know.  But, I was extremely pleased with how it sounded with headphones.
   
  The Bryston so far is very clean, clear and smooth.  It doesn't have the bottom end that the W4S has, and is more clinical and not as musical at these earliest of breakin stages.  I must make a confession that I use Frank Sinatra as a benchmark for me as he can use his voice like a musical instrument to convey emotion.  When listening through the Bryston, it was definately Frank and it was precise and clean and clear, but when the W4S was playing it was FRANKIEEEE!
   
  I also got a copy of a 24/192 FLAC master of Wagner's The Ring, and while I have not heard it yet on the Bryston, it was spookie good on the W4S.  I am incredibly super duper wowie zowie pleased with the BDP-1 as it has put me on a whole 'nuther level as far as what is available in digital music.  The grunge is gone, and it is only a day or two on the bench so I expect more sonic blossoming as the days go on.
   
  I only have enough equipment to run one DAC at a time, so my plan for the month of July is to run one DAC all day and alternate between them on a daily basis.  So today was W4S day, and tomorrow will be Bryston day, and so on.  More to come...


----------



## Clayton SF

Keep this up and sooner or later we'll be able to see both ends of your workbench in one snapshot.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> More to come...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey guys, it did and I have been playing it and burning it in ever since.  So now I have the Bryston and the W4S DAC's going.  Both DAC's are very nice.
> 
> The Bryston folks say they put 100 hours on all of their stuff before they ship, and the W4S folks say it takes at least 200 hours before you can begin to hear its potential.
> 
> ...


 


  What head-fi really needs is a Mr.Bill emoticon! Take your new W4S DAC-2 for example.You had it shipped to the wrong address! I'm coming to see you in a few weeks anyway. Would've delivered the 'Shoe Box' myself on Day 22 with 504 hours on it. 




   
   
  Enjoyin' pix of your gear for now...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> One really great feature of the W4S DAC is that I can plug my balanced amplifier directly into it and I get my full system back.  From a listening perspective (again I say it is very early in the game yet) the W4S sounds very musical with headphones and really crappy in my system which was surprising in that I thought audio quality would be about the same.  Why it sounded so musical in my Woo but so bad with my speaker amplifier I don't know.  But, I was extremely pleased with how it sounded with headphones.
> 
> The Bryston so far is very clean, clear and smooth.  It doesn't have the bottom end that the W4S has, and is more clinical and not as musical at these earliest of breakin stages.  I must make a confession that I use Frank Sinatra as a benchmark for me as he can use his voice like a musical instrument to convey emotion.  When listening through the Bryston, it was definately Frank and it was precise and clean and clear, but when the W4S was playing it was FRANKIEEEE!


 
  I'm using the balanced outs from the DAC-2 into my V200.  I was using an MIT MI 330 interconnect coming out of the DAC-2 RCA out into the V200 and when I switched to a W4S balanced interconnect out of the DAC-2 into the V200 my LCD's really came alive.  I think it was more of a cable difference than the difference between the unbalanced and balanced outputs.  I know the MIT MI 330 interconnects very well, been using it for 20 years and I think it was definitely holding my rig back.  Just to be sure though I'm going to order the W4S unbalanced interconnects which are of the same cable as the balanced.
   
  As far as the DAC-2  sounding bad when outputting to your amp that shouldn't be.  I'm also using my DAC-2 out to an amp and it sounds very good.  Are you sure your'e using the outer left and out right RCA outs and not the two inner RCA's which are the HT bypass outs?  That's probably a dumb question on my part because the HT outs probably cant pass audio but I've never tried it and you never know.

 The DAC-2 really starts to show itself after about 100-150 hours but really seems to need 200+, even more to settle in.  Never had any component that needed so much burn in time but it does and there will be a difference.

 I think the DAC-2 has a very smooth and balanced frequency response from top to bottom, it has tremendous inner detail without sounding artificial, It's lows are very extended, clean and articulate, it's highs are extended , smooth and natural. I think the DAC-2 is wonderfully detailed and neutral.   If you have a solid state amp or a receiver to use to get the burn in moving along you should.  There will be even more finesse.


----------



## rudi0504

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm sure you will do just fine as we are all friends here.  I'm interested in what you have to say.


 


   


  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Shipped out today FedEX (Thanks again davo50!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congratulation Peter for your WA 22.
  I can not wait so long until you make review  with your two Woo Wa2 nad Wa 22, to drive all your Headphones.
  Cheers


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm using the balanced outs from the DAC-2 into my V200.  I was using an MIT MI 330 interconnect coming out of the DAC-2 RCA out into the V200 and when I switched to a W4S balanced interconnect out of the DAC-2 into the V200 my LCD's really came alive.  I think it was more of a cable difference than the difference between the unbalanced and balanced outputs.  I know the MIT MI 330 interconnects very well, been using it for 20 years and I think it was definitely holding my rig back.  Just to be sure though I'm going to order the W4S unbalanced interconnects which are of the same cable as the balanced.
> 
> As far as the DAC-2  sounding bad when outputting to your amp that shouldn't be.  I'm also using my DAC-2 out to an amp and it sounds very good.  Are you sure your'e using the outer left and out right RCA outs and not the two inner RCA's which are the HT bypass outs?  That's probably a dumb question on my part because the HT outs probably cant pass audio but I've never tried it and you never know.
> 
> ...


 

 I did not know that W4S made cables, I'll need to look into them.  Please update everyone on your balanced vs. RCA cable comparison. 
   
  I have been thinking about cables and may do something with them next.  I have been using cables from a company called Granite Audio which is an Arizona based audio company.  When I was reviewing equipment for positive-feedback I found them and loved them and bought many pairs of RCA and a single set of XLR and it's the XLR that I am using to go from the DAC to either the Woo or Audio Research (so I think I'm pretty sure I was not coming out of the HT bypass connectors as they are not balanced).
   
  I'm glad you pointed out how great the W4S sounds after it is broken in.  My comments were about 4 hours in, and the highs were and at 20 hours are still are a bit ragged.  I'm sure this will clear up after a while.  It is clear how musical this DAC really is.  It is not clinical sounding to my ears at all and is pairing very nicely to the WA22 / HD800 combination.  In fact the DAC is more ragged sounding now than yesterday, and when compared with the Bryston its a wire brush.  But, it's only 20 hours in and the day is still young!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What head-fi really needs is a Mr.Bill emoticon! Take your new W4S DAC-2 for example.You had it shipped to the wrong address! I'm coming to see you in a few weeks anyway. Would've delivered the 'Shoe Box' myself on Day 22 with 504 hours on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 We do need a Mr. Bill icon.  Looking forward to your visit.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Am now using the new Bryston BDP-1 and it sounds very promising.  I have found that the digital artifacts I was hearing with several media streaming devices and DAC's are gone.  My media library is now crystal clear.  I am also hearing nuances that were not audible previously.


 


  What is your source for music in your new setup?  External drives?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> As far as the DAC-2  sounding bad when outputting to your amp that shouldn't be.  I'm also using my DAC-2 out to an amp and it sounds very good.  Are you sure your'e using the outer left and out right RCA outs and not the two inner RCA's which are the HT bypass outs?  That's probably a dumb question on my part because the HT outs probably cant pass audio but I've never tried it and you never know.


 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> When I was reviewing equipment for positive-feedback I found them and loved them and bought many pairs of RCA and a single set of XLR and it's the XLR that I am using to go from the DAC to either the Woo or Audio Research (so I think I'm pretty sure I was not coming out of the HT bypass connectors as they are not balanced).


 

   
  I'm pretty sure that WA was referring to the two different sets of RCA outs, not whether you were using the balanced outs or not:


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I did not know that W4S made cables, I'll need to look into them.


 

 http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/47095
   
  I think I'm going to trust W4S and also get one of their power cables and maybe their USB cable.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> the highs were and at 20 hours are still are a bit ragged.


 


  20 hours. That DAC hasn't even been born yet.


----------



## PanamaRed

I think you will be very pleased Mike. But anxiously await your thoughts on the DAC-2.
   
  As far as analog interconnects, I am currently testing out cables from Grover Huffman and Signal Cables.
   
  I am running Signal's Silver Resolution XLR right now and only have good things to say about it.


----------



## isyoox

I was hoping to purchase a Woo amp and pick it up myself, instead of having it shipped, but apparently this is not possible. Are they shipped out of NYC? Also, when it says the AC power cord is not included, what should I be buying to use with the amp?


----------



## WindyCityCy

I use Signal Cables silver resolution balance ICs and Power Cables to connect W4S and WA22 ... also in my main stereo rig.  I think they sound great.  The silver might not work so well in a bright system but I haven't put a 2nd thought into switching cables.  Also, Frank at Signal Cables is great to deal with.  He has replaced a few cables for me that have worn out due to switching systems or whatever and never once has there been an issue.  Always happy to fix the cable or send a replacement.
  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> I think you will be very pleased Mike. But anxiously await your thoughts on the DAC-2.
> 
> As far as analog interconnects, I am currently testing out cables from Grover Huffman and Signal Cables.
> 
> I am running Signal's Silver Resolution XLR right now and only have good things to say about it.


----------



## Clayton SF

I remember reading Seamaster's thread Got my paws on WA22 in October 2009. LOL when he opened his thread with:
   
_Missed USPS delivery on Saturday, that made me lost some sleep on Sunday as well. 1st thing in the morning on Monday (today), I went to post office in parjamas with my hair stood up like unicorn, but I did not give crap._
   
  I could certainly relate to his anxiousness--unicorn hair and all!
   
  Has anyone been in contact with him lately? He was my original source of "All Things WA22." I've missed his impressions, guidance, and wit on hp, tubes, etc., etc., etc.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> What is your source for music in your new setup?  External drives?


 

 Yes, one external drive.  I have an old Western Digital drive plugged into the rear of the unit just to get me going. 
   
  Currently, I am looking into a D-Link DNS-343 4-Bay NAS with (4) 2-Terabyte drives which I'll turn into a raid-5 array.  I'm debating whether to rip my collection again into either uncompressed wav or flac.  I'm leaning towards wav, but I'll know more after I make my DAC decision and can get a sense of what the sonic consequences are of flac vs wav, and then balanced with the issue of space and cost. 
   
  For example, the 24/192 uncompressed wav master of Wagner's The Ring is taking up 5.68 gigs, the flac version, which is 50% compressed is 2.98 gigs.  After I get my DAC sorted out and everything broken in and stable, I'll make my format decision.  Then there is the issue of management software.  I think dBpoweramp is great for ripping, but I'm going to need something to catalog and manage.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> 20 hours. That DAC hasn't even been born yet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I remember reading Seamaster's thread Got my paws on WA22 in October 2009. LOL when he opened his thread with:
> 
> _Missed USPS delivery on Saturday, that made me lost some sleep on Sunday as well. 1st thing in the morning on Monday (today), I went to post office in parjamas with my hair stood up like unicorn, but I did not give crap._
> 
> ...


 

 Seamaster ~
   
  I enjoyed many of the experiences he shared with all his gear. And outside experiences as well. He's definitely someone who enjoys life. I read head-fi for a few years (non-member) while getting portable gear from HeadRoom.
   
  I'd follow his threads (and other veterans) even though many posts were unrelated to my gear - learned a great deal between his exchanges with others. That's one of the highlights for new beginners - understanding the flow and then jumping in!
   
  Thanks for sharing his account with us - _very entertaining... _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes, one external drive.  I have an old Western Digital drive plugged into the rear of the unit just to get me going.
> 
> Currently, I am looking into a D-Link DNS-343 4-Bay NAS with (4) 2-Terabyte drives which I'll turn into a raid-5 array.  I'm debating whether to rip my collection again into either uncompressed wav or flac.  I'm leaning towards wav, but I'll know more after I make my DAC decision and can get a sense of what the sonic consequences are of flac vs wav, and then balanced with the issue of space and cost.
> 
> For example, the 24/192 uncompressed wav master of Wagner's The Ring is taking up 5.68 gigs, the flac version, which is 50% compressed is 2.98 gigs.  After I get my DAC sorted out and everything broken in and stable, I'll make my format decision.  Then there is the issue of management software.  I think dBpoweramp is great for ripping, but I'm going to need something to catalog and manage.


 

_Shouting match erupts at Camp Silent! _(_not really_..)
   
  What format dominates your library currently? I'm from the camp that rips media into AIFF, ALAC, FLAC & WAV - use all of them. As opposed to choosing neatly, a library theme, if you would.
   
  That said, it's my preference when buying hi-rez downloads to stay native. FLAC? Keeping it! WAV?! Absolutely! Even buying CD quality files from HDTracks in AIFF, I leave them be... _why bother?!_
   
  I have been know to hang out in other camps, but when no one's looking!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Shouting match erupts at Camp Silent! _(_not really_..)
> 
> What format dominates your library currently? I'm from the camp that rips media into AIFF, ALAC, FLAC & WAV - use all of them. As opposed to choosing neatly, a library theme, if you would.
> 
> ...


 

 Good points. 
   
  I can see that when downloading hi-rez, keep it in the format it was sold in.  Currently, my media library is a dog's breakfast of formats, and I'd like to just get it all organized.  Most of what I own is CD based, maybe I have 10 to 15 albums of hi-rez, so I have to decide what to do there.
   
  When ripping CD's do you think flac is ok, or is it better to go wav?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I use Signal Cables silver resolution balance ICs and Power Cables to connect W4S and WA22 ... also in my main stereo rig.  I think they sound great.  The silver might not work so well in a bright system but I haven't put a 2nd thought into switching cables.  Also, Frank at Signal Cables is great to deal with.  He has replaced a few cables for me that have worn out due to switching systems or whatever and never once has there been an issue.  Always happy to fix the cable or send a replacement.


 

 I've been thinking about obtaining cables from Signalcable but now I'm not so sure.  I have a number of relatively old interconnects (20 years,15 years) and never had one wear out and they've been through switching in and out carrousel for sure over the years.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Good points.
> 
> I can see that when downloading hi-rez, keep it in the format it was sold in.  Currently, my media library is a dog's breakfast of formats, and I'd like to just get it all organized.  Most of what I own is CD based, maybe I have 10 to 15 albums of hi-rez, so I have to decide what to do there.
> 
> When ripping CD's do you think flac is ok, or is it better to go wav?


 
   
_Regrading your library - program your settings to FLAC and let it rip! I'm mainly speaking to my own personal exceptions, rather than my general methods._
  
  'Better' is a relative term. Because your needs will change (growth). Your system's abilities will change (resolve). Your hearing will change - perhaps, a bit of loss over time but offset by your improved ability to hear (learned). Personally, if I have the physical CD I'm not going to give a 'rip' about which format to use! (pun intended)
   
  You know what they say about "Preferences," it means to do "without." And if I had my audio loving hands on a borrowed, rare, hard to obtain CD that I'd like to have in future libraries and systems, I'd rather do without compression to potentially (keyword) to guard against technology's ability to resolve compression schemes in the future.
   
  However, if the same friend burned FLAC files on my behalf instead of trusting me with their CD, I'd be just as happy!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I've had 2 of their Silver Resolution RCA interconnects replaced.  Both were due to the Bullet Plugs - the pin in the connector gets pushed in and can't create as solid of a connection.  This isn't really the cable's fault.  I would bet any brand of cable with that connector will have the same issue.   You can order the cables with the bullet plugs or standard RCA connectors if you're concerned.  I bet your old interconnects have the standard RCA connectors that are basically metal all the way around.  The nice thing about the bullet plugs is how easy it is to plug and un-plug them.  Wouldn't stop me from ordering if you like the results since Frank will replace any of them that fail.

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been thinking about obtaining cables from Signalcable but now I'm not so sure.  I have a number of relatively old interconnects (20 years,15 years) and never had one wear out and they've been through switching in and out carrousel for sure over the years.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Regrading your library - program your settings to FLAC and let it rip! I'm mainly speaking to my own personal exceptions, rather than my general methods._
> 
> 'Better' is a relative term. Because your needs will change (growth). Your system's abilities will change (resolve). Your hearing will change - perhaps, a bit of loss over time but offset by your improved ability to hear (learned). Personally, if I have the physical CD I'm not going to give a 'rip' about which format to use! (pun intended)
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, here is where I am going with this.  Bear with me, there is some programming stuff here, and I am only adding to knowledge and perspective; that is food for thought. 
   
  Notice the two property dialog pages below.  The one on the left is from the original flac download.  The one on the right is from a wav file that was converted from the original and then converted back to flac.  Now, look at the Encoder property.  On the original flac download the version of the decoding library is 1.1.2.  Now look at the Encoder property for the most recent flac conversion, it is version 1.2.1.
  

   
  Now if you go to http://flac.sourceforge.net/changelog.html which is the flac changelog for features added for each version, you'll see many changes have been added to flac since 1.1.2 to the present version of 1.2.1.
   
  There were bug fixes, OS fixes, buffer overflow fixes, additional features added, and error recovery enhances just to mention just a few.  So, this compressing/decompressing stuff is not as simple as it seems at first glance.  There are a lot of other eddy currents (pun NOT intended; this is a Woo forum for god's sake), flowing around down in there.  So, when you get a flac file, the question is what version was it compressed with and what version is the device that is doing the decoding running with and how compatible are they?  How much are vendors willing to spend to maintain and support backwards compatibility?
   
  Take my BDP-1 player as a case in point.  What library do they use to decode?  I have no earthly idea.  Then there is dBpoweramp, well when they upgrade, I'm going to want the latest and greatest.  At some point will there be a new feature introduced that will not be playable or handled in a way by my BDP-1 that raises issues?
   
  Granted, vendors are probably thinking about all of this.  Most vendors with streaming stuff have firmware upgrade strategies.  However, a big question is will a flac file that is encoded today play on new equipment in 10 years?
   
  I don't have any conclusions or special insight, just wanted to surface some submerged issues.  Just some thoughts, probably rambling too much.


----------



## Clayton SF

Mike, now how in the world am I supposed to grasp this while sipping my first glass of wine? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Beautiful post, though.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike, now how in the world am I supposed to grasp this while sipping my first glass of wine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Forget the post, enjoy the wine.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Forget the post, enjoy the wine.


 
  Nah--I am actually enjoying both. I love this stuff. That is your tech-post and my wine.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I've had 2 of their Silver Resolution RCA interconnects replaced.  Both were due to the Bullet Plugs - the pin in the connector gets pushed in and can't create as solid of a connection.  This isn't really the cable's fault.  I would bet any brand of cable with that connector will have the same issue.   You can order the cables with the bullet plugs or standard RCA connectors if you're concerned.  I bet your old interconnects have the standard RCA connectors that are basically metal all the way around.  The nice thing about the bullet plugs is how easy it is to plug and un-plug them.  Wouldn't stop me from ordering if you like the results since Frank will replace any of them that fail.


 

 Thanks for the reply.  I had to look up Bullet Plug because I'm a little outdated which is probably apparent since I'm just now updating my 20 year old interconnect collection.  I found this: http://www.vhaudio.com/bullet-plugs.html
   
  I'm interested in silver.  The W4S interconnect is copper and silver.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, here is where I am going with this.  Bear with me, there is some programming stuff here, and I am only adding to knowledge and perspective; that is food for thought.
> 
> Notice the two property dialog pages below.  The one on the left is from the original flac download.  The one on the right is from a wav file that was converted from the original and then converted back to flac.  Now, look at the Encoder property.  On the original flac download the version of the decoding library is 1.1.2.  Now look at the Encoder property for the most recent flac conversion, it is version 1.2.1.
> 
> ...


 


  And that's not the half of it! Great half and contribution, by the way - _who doesn't enjoy good examples?!_ Simply put, I'm a guardian - have trust in tech but guard my files. And my example regarding that ol' rare, hard to obtain and perhaps borrowed CD I keep beating on?  It is with good reason.
   





   
  Isn't it funny how, in other areas of our lives when dealing with something of great value all of sudden, our handling matters? Same with music studios and their masters. A console (ADC/DAC) with newer tech may bring something less desirable to light (breakout the kid gloves) - watch those extra steps! 
   
   
  Given time, the future will provide us with the ability to resolve audio better. And a few of our favorite and trusted methods for handling audio, processing audio and playing audio will have a many audiophiles kicking themselves.
   
  History is filled with examples of engineering and design where human error/calculation omitted something; didn't account for something... oops upside their big heads!
   
  You could start with any manufacturing sector and watch the sun set... and still be in discussion. I love tech and in no way am I putting it or the audio industry down, on the contrary. I'm giving credit to advances not yet made. _Oh, they'll be here soon enough..._
   

 Post Script.:
   
  Some may wonder if any of this off topic. And then realize it's about our Woo Audio amp's diet - what are we feeding it exactly?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been thinking about obtaining cables from Signalcable but now I'm not so sure.  I have a number of relatively old interconnects (20 years,15 years) and never had one wear out and they've been through switching in and out carrousel for sure over the years.


 

 I use signal cable as well.  No wear issues with mine, but I have the standard terminations and not the bullets.  I have no idea where they land in the general scheme of things for SQ, but I thought they were a very clear improvement over some acoustic research cables I had laying around to compare against.  Biggest change was in the bass, the speed and definition improvement was immediately perceivable.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I use signal cable as well.  No wear issues with mine, but I have the standard terminations and not the bullets.  I have no idea where they land in the general scheme of things for SQ, but I thought they were a very clear improvement over some acoustic research cables I had laying around to compare against.  Biggest change was in the bass, the speed and definition improvement was immediately perceivable.


 
  I'm going to add a Woo WA6SE to compliment my V200 most likely when the summer ends so I'm hoping any new cables will have the same synergy with both amps and the DAC-2.  But you never know with cables till you try them.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Given time, the future will provide us with the ability to resolve audio better.


 

 Yeah, maybe we'll even catch up with the record player someday


----------



## MacedonianHero

rudi0504 said:


> Congratulation Peter for your WA 22.
> I can not wait so long until you make review  with your two Woo Wa2 nad Wa 22, to drive all your Headphones.
> Cheers




Thanks...but I'm thinking the WA22 will only be able to power 4/5 of my headphones. Let's just say my Lyr ain't going anywhere....


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> And that's not the half of it! Great half and contribution, by the way - _who doesn't good enjoy examples?!_ Simply put, I'm a guardian - have trust in tech but guard my files. And my example regarding that ol' rare, hard to obtain and perhaps borrowed CD I keep beating on?  It is with good reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I can't speak for anyone else, but I appreciate the slight off topic stuff that revolves around the Woo here. It never seems to stray too far. I don't always comment on it, but I learn a lot from it. 

Thanks to the contributors!


----------



## Clayton SF

How could we ever be off topic? We are Woo Audio Amp Users Uniting. Coming together on a veritable smorgasbord of topics discussed by us Woo Users (and future Woo users--I hope!).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How could we ever be off topic? We are Woo Audio Amp Users Uniting. Coming together on a veritable smorgasbord of topics discussed by us Woo Users (and future Woo users--I hope!).


 


  I tossed in my intention to but the WA6SE in my last post because I was feeling really guilty about getting everything off topic but now I don't feel as guilty.  I will spend the rest of the summer thinking "black or silver, black or silver".


----------



## vinyllp33

grokit said:


> Yeah, maybe we'll even catch up with the record player someday



We are definitely starting to come full circle, albeit in a somewhat roundabout way. 

While digital has been steadily improving the last quarter century, so too has analog in both the areas of playback (hardware) and quality of mastering/pressings.

So I have no problem with a happy coexistence, however if you have owned a good quality analog rig from the last twenty years or so, you have been enjoying "high-res" all along.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How could we ever be off topic? We are Woo Audio Amp Users Uniting. Coming together on a veritable smorgasbord of topics discussed by us Woo Users (and future Woo users--I hope!).


 


  x2!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> We are definitely starting to come full circle, albeit in a somewhat roundabout way.
> 
> While digital has been steadily improving the last quarter century, so too has analog in both the areas of playback (hardware) and quality of mastering/pressings.
> 
> So I have no problem with a happy coexistence, however if you have owned a good quality analog rig from the last twenty years or so, you have been enjoying "high-res" all along.


 

 These days are filled with amusement, watching Analogue & Digital trying hard to maintain their faces and followers. _"Oh, I would never be caught dead dating that medium... and marriage certainly is out of the question! Oh, you saw us together last month? No, there wasn't anything going on... we work at the same studio, so it was work related but nothing further, I can assure you!"_
   
  "How is this possible?" you ask. Unlike in times past, the two mediums are now used in many mastering processes - intertwined. No clean-cut committed marriages; _they are lovers! _Now it's the hardcore dedicated artist/label/exec/audiophile/music lover who must proceed with the exception and expense to keep the peas & carrots separate!


----------



## vinyllp33

And what has to be one of the greatest audiophile enigmas/contradictions is Patricia Barber's "Cafe Blue", an all digital recording that many analog purists to this day still continue to deny its binary pedigree because of the reference level, demo worthy sound quality.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> And what has to be one of the greatest audiophile enigmas/contradictions is Patricia Barber's "Cafe Blue", an all digital recording that many analog purists to this day still continue to deny its binary pedigree because of the reference level, demo worthy sound quality.


 

 Cafe Blue sounds great.  The recording eng was on his game for sure.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yeah, maybe we'll even catch up with the record player someday


 
   
  (Silent One searches the menu at _The Digital Domain_, a popular dining spot among computer audiophiles)
   
_Today's Catch: Studio Master Recordings. Aged in the vault where temperatures never exceed 50 degrees constant; recently treated for archiving @ 96/24 kHz. The finest, serving customers for over a century._
   
  The Audio industry has long  made that catch and consumers are seated at the table. Getting served (what consumers want, anyway) makes for another discussion entirely. Currently, the consumer's ability are now at direct odds with record labels viability. And no, they've no interest in truly giving the customer what they want. There's more eggs to sell from the Golden Goose in different formats.  :~)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> And what has to be one of the greatest audiophile enigmas/contradictions is Patricia Barber's "Cafe Blue", an all digital recording that many analog purists to this day still continue to deny its binary pedigree because of the reference level, demo worthy sound quality.


 

 I've only heard a few 30 second samples of the singer and really wasn't moved. But in fairness to her, most artists are up against the same limitations - at some point a customer has to take a chance. Reviews, family & friends can help. Your mention now has me looking forward to revisiting Ms. Barber. If more of us shared our wealth (music), our playback experience could only be enhanced. Thanks, vinyllp33.





   
  "Cafe Blue" - great sounding title! I've no idea what genre, but the title reminds me of a small intimate cafe (mom & pop owned, no SBUX!), ambient, complete with hardwood floors. And definitely somewhere in the city. Is she a fav of yours?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I tossed in my intention to but the WA6SE in my last post because I was feeling really guilty about getting everything off topic but now I don't feel as guilty.  I will spend the rest of the summer thinking "black or silver, black or silver".


 

 When I first laid eyes on the Woo Audio WA6 Special Edition, with its twin chassis design it was love at first sight! Deciding which color is definitely a luxury and dilemma worth having. I'm sure you'll be pleased no matter which color you bring home (_Psssst... get the black one!_).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've only heard a few 30 second samples of the singer and really wasn't moved. But in fairness to her, most artists are up against the same limitations - at some point a customer has to take a chance. Reviews, family & friends can help. Your mention now has me looking forward to revisiting Ms. Barber. If more of us shared our wealth (music), our playback experience could only be enhanced. Thanks, vinyllp33.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I get most of my material from my county library.   They get a large selection of new stock every week and 90% of the CD's are actually in very good shape, so I avoid the whole consumer thing.  It is surprising the excellent shape the CD's are in, hardly ever even a small scratch these days.  I'm pretty sure thats because people just aren't going to the library and taking out CDs anymore. So they remain in excellent shape.  I must get 30 new CD's a week that way.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> For example, the 24/192 uncompressed wav master of Wagner's The Ring is taking up 5.68 gigs, the flac version, which is 50% compressed is 2.98 gigs.


 


  Mike, keep in mind that both flac and wav are lossless, which is the key factor. There is no need or benefit to store a music file in wav. afaik.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I get most of my material from my county library.   They get a large selection of new stock every week and 90% of the CD's are actually in very good shape, so I avoid the whole consumer thing.  It is surprising the excellent shape the CD's are in, hardly ever even a small scratch these days.  I'm pretty sure thats because people just aren't going to the library and taking out CDs anymore. So they remain in excellent shape.  I must get 30 new CD's a week that way.


 

_x2!_ _You are wise_...
   
  In the last 10 years, Los Angeles County & Alameda County Library systems have both served me well. CD/DVD not at the branch? The Librarian will 'Status' it and then ask which branch would I like to receive it at? To which I reply "This branch will be fine." Currently, I can check out up to 20 CDs/Three weeks.
   
  My strategy usually entails mobilizing my gear and lunch spend about 5 hours there ripping. And if it's a good day with lots of finds, then check out some media for a week. I'm excited to rip right away; never needed a full three weeks. 17" notebook, HDD & lunch gets it done.
   
  Prior to this, I used my full media access at UC Irvine's Media Center and studied and ripped a treasure trove of African music (The Continent & Diaspora); Latin America and Asia. There, I'd pick a Friday ever other month and stay all morning through late afternoon. Great strategy 'cause none of the Music Majors took Friday classes - free space, free reign.
   
  I also picked up a lot of CDs from LA Main Central Library, UCLA, USC... _my tax dollars at work__!  _





  Mid '90's saw me armed with a Sony DAT; Sony Walkman Professional; Sony DVD player. I used the DAT for archiving and the Walkman Pro for monitoring during those sessions.
   
_Earlier this winter, I connected the DAT to my WA6SE and it's still an amazing portable!   _
   
  Admittedly, many of the discs I try are simply not my taste. But the adventure is outstanding, discovery really is priceless. I'll give a lot of artists and recordings a fair chance. Still, even when I find something I want, if it's not getting playtime after a year or two and it's not precious, off the HDD it goes... _Next!_
   
  I have slowed dramatically in the past two years, as I'm growing tired of Redbook. Sure, it CAN be good some of the time. Especially if I find something I didn't have. But sometimes in life, good enough is no longer _good enough! _


----------



## jamesnz

silent one said:


> When I first laid eyes on the Woo Audio WA6 Special Edition, with its twin chassis design it was love at first sight! Deciding which color is definitely a luxury and dilemma worth having. I'm sure you'll be pleased no matter which color you bring home (_Psssst... get the black one!_).




You could just ask jack to surprise you with the color! I did exactly the same. Have ended up with black but would be so happily surprised to receive the silver.

Speaking of which, I sent heaps of emails back and fourth to jack and feel pretty bad about the time I took for him. I wonder if anybody has ever asked him any more questions about a product?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> You could just ask jack to surprise you with the color! I did exactly the same. Have ended up with black but would be so happily surprised to receive the silver.
> 
> Speaking of which, I sent heaps of emails back and fourth to jack and feel pretty bad about the time I took for him. I wonder if anybody has ever asked him any more questions about a product?


 

  
  Good mornin'... glad your surprise color worked out for you. But I could never not choose between colors, or shapes for that matter. I have a reaction to design. For me, the silver is flat out gorgeous! The black clad anodized chassis looks equally gorgeous... _but stirred me emotionally as well. _
   
  You shouldn't feel too bad about taking up all of his time. _There have been others_. Forums have helped vendors deal with general information and enthusiasm from customers/would-be customers in a big way. However, the next email inquiry you make...


----------



## Silent One

_Uh-oh... sunrise! Gon' like Barnabus Collins!_


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yeah, maybe we'll even catch up with the record player someday


 

 I'm still on the lookout for a used and Cullen modified PS Audio phono stage, so I hear you Grokit!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've only heard a few 30 second samples of the singer and really wasn't moved. But in fairness to her, most artists are up against the same limitations - at some point a customer has to take a chance. Reviews, family & friends can help. Your mention now has me looking forward to revisiting Ms. Barber. If more of us shared our wealth (music), our playback experience could only be enhanced. Thanks, vinyllp33.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have Patricia Barber's Companion Hybrid SACD and I love the sound of her voice.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I get most of my material from my county library.   They get a large selection of new stock every week and 90% of the CD's are actually in very good shape, so I avoid the whole consumer thing.  It is surprising the excellent shape the CD's are in, hardly ever even a small scratch these days.  I'm pretty sure thats because people just aren't going to the library and taking out CDs anymore. So they remain in excellent shape.  I must get 30 new CD's a week that way.


 

 That is a totally GREAT idea.  My county library is right down the road.  I may try them.  I had not thought of that before.  I'm going to look into that.  Thank's for mentioning that.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Mike, keep in mind that both flac and wav are lossless, which is the key factor. There is no need or benefit to store a music file in wav. afaik.


 

 Nu, yes they are lossless formats, you are correct, that was not exactly what I was trying to get at. 
   
  What I was trying to do was to show that underneith the covers there are bug fixes, additional functions, enhancements and differences in the different versions of the compression/decompression libraries to bring to light there are other things going on that have an equal influence on the outcome.  So, storing audio in their uncompressed state as in AIFF or WAV could be safer over they years because we may find a time that a file that had been compressed in flac years ago is being run against a new decoder that is using some of the newer features that have been added to flac and is there a chance our music won't play properly?
   
  It is probably not an issue and most likely limited to something that computer programmer types argue amoungst ourselves.  I just thought it would be interesting to look behind the curtain somewhat, but it's no big deal.
   
  Are you rolling any new tubes lately?  What are you listening to these days?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _x2!_ _You are wise_...
> 
> In the last 10 years, Los Angeles County & Alameda County Library systems have both served me well. CD/DVD not at the branch? The Librarian will 'Status' it and then ask which branch would I like to receive it at? To which I reply "This branch will be fine." Currently, I can check out up to 20 CDs/Three weeks.
> 
> ...


 

 So the deal is to bring equipment to the library and rip there, rather than take stuff home and then bring it back?  Sounds like a lot of equipment, and nobody hassled you?  What Sony DAT were you using?


----------



## Clayton SF

I remember DATs.


----------



## Skylab

Never mind.


----------



## sphinxvc

Silent One, Warrior Ant, that's brilliant.  I never thought to use the library.  I'm sure the NYC public libraries must have an exhaustive collection.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Never mind.


 

 You have a point.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> That is a totally GREAT idea.  My county library is right down the road.  I may try them.  I had not thought of that before.  I'm going to look into that.  Thank's for mentioning that.


 
  This is whatI've been doing for years in CT, MN, and now AZ.  I go to the county library website and order the CD's from the website and have them delivered to the nearest branch.  I use my card, my wife's card and my Daughter's card to max out the number of CD's and DVD's I can get.    I never actually go through the physical collection at the branch near me because it is very finite but the virtual collection is the sum of all 15 county branches here and that's pretty significant and the entire collection can be accessed and ordered online.  Most of the CD's are in good shape, occasionally you have to clean off some finger prints.  
   
  http://www.wowbrary.org/index.aspx   this link may work for your library as well.  You plug in your zip and it will tell you what new CD's, DVD's, and books your library will be getting every week.  I use it to stay ahead of the dwindling CD using crowd.   Also, most library system have an amazing collection of classical music available and this collection is usually less traveled than the other genres.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Silent One, Warrior Ant, that's brilliant.  I never thought to use the library.  I'm sure the NYC public libraries must have an exhaustive collection.


 

 I have a friend who lives in the Bronx.  I turned him on to the NYC library.  He saves a boatload of money now not just in music, DVD's but also in books.  The NYC system is extensive.  Just order it up and pick it up.  The NYC system is of course more heavily used than many other systems and my friend tells me a lot of stuff gets stolen but all in all he was amazed at it's resources.   
   
  One tip though.  Most library system now use two security strips balanced on each side of the disc and then cover it with a plastic.  This is ok and will work in a slot loaded computer but if you go through thousands of CDs it may cause a premature failure of the drive.  That happened to a drive in my iMac which was suspect to begin with. Apple replaced it no charge but I got a stand alone drive to hook up to my Mac with a drawer that opens and closes.  That works much better for Xfers.   I haven't purchased a CD in nearly 8 years.  I've culled nearly 7000 songs from CD's during that time from library stock.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I remember DATs.


 
  I spit on the floor when ever the word DAT comes up.  I curse the day it was invented.  Damn I just spit on my office floor again.


----------



## Icenine2

I just extracted files from all my Talking Heads discs (flip side is the DVDA 24/96)  Sounds really good.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


warriorant said:


> I have a friend who lives in the Bronx.  I turned him on to the NYC library.  He saves a boatload of money now not just in music, DVD's but also in books.  The NYC system is extensive.  Just order it up and pick it up.  The NYC system is of course more heavily used than many other systems and my friend tells me a lot of stuff gets stolen but all in all he was amazed at it's resources.
> 
> One tip though.  Most library system now use two security strips balanced on each side of the disc and then cover it with a plastic.  This is ok and will work in a slot loaded computer but if you go through thousands of CDs it may cause a premature failure of the drive.  That happened to a drive in my iMac which was suspect to begin with. Apple replaced it no charge but I got a stand alone drive to hook up to my Mac with a drawer that opens and closes.  That works much better for Xfers.   I haven't purchased a CD in nearly 8 years.  I've culled nearly 7000 songs from CD's during that time from library stock.


 

 Thanks for the advice.  I lost my entire music collection (8 years worth) about a month ago--hard drive failure.  (Back up was temporarily housing other files, just my luck.)  
   
  This should help.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I spit on the floor when ever the word DAT comes up.  I curse the day it was invented.  Damn I just spit on my office floor again.


 
   
_*The name of a recording and playback medium which cannot be spoken!*_


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> _*The name of a recording and playback medium which cannot be spoken!*_


 
  Just a nightmare to use when editing audio in a professional environment.


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





> One tip though.  Most library system now use two security strips balanced on each side of the disc and then cover it with a plastic.  This is ok and will work in a slot loaded computer but if you go through thousands of CDs it may cause a premature failure of the drive.  That happened to a drive in my iMac which was suspect to begin with. Apple replaced it no charge but I got a stand alone drive to hook up to my Mac with a drawer that opens and closes.  That works much better for Xfers.  * I haven't purchased a CD in nearly 8 years.*  I've culled nearly 7000 songs from CD's during that time from library stock.


 
  Guys, 
  I understand that cd's cost a lot of money....We are all guilty of burning cds, copying hard drives, especially in this digital age.
   
  But it's important to always spend atleast some little portion of your money to purchase a cd and support a musician. Especially the musicians that need the support...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Guys,
> I understand that cd's cost a lot of money....We are all guilty of burning cds, copying hard drives, especially in this digital age.
> 
> But it's important to always spend atleast some little portion of your money to purchase a cd and support a musician. Especially the musicians that need the support...


 

 I just went thru 60 CD's this week and grabbed just 2 songs I wanted.  I don't think that ratio is starving any musicians. So that's a good ratio for the music industry. My library buys those 60 CD (most of them are purchased in multiples, often as many as ten of one single CD issue for the library system) and I end up taking just 2 songs.   Thank heavens the library has a collection otherwise I'd have to spend all my income filtering through the crap the music industry is selling not really for artistic merit but more for pure profit.


----------



## Nova13

If you guys are lucky enough to have a used cd store in your area, you should check it out.
   
  I, too, have burned cd's from the library, but some cd's should be owned out of respect for the music and the artists themselves!  That said, I am in favor of auditioning, and understand the rationale of needing to save some money.  Once you buy a cd, its not like you can take it back if it stinks...
   
  One day I randomly searched google maps for used cd stores, and found two in my area!  Today I visited to see what had recently come in, and purchased a copy of Graceland - by Paul Simon, for $2.99!  It was an early pressing too, it says "Made in West Germany" on the cd itself.  Neat!  And worth owning, in my humble opinion.


----------



## WarriorAnt

But what if you take out CD's and just listen to them and then bring them back.  what's the moral compass on that?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Guys,
> I understand that cd's cost a lot of money....We are all guilty of burning cds, copying hard drives, especially in this digital age.
> 
> But it's important to always spend atleast some little portion of your money to purchase a cd and support a musician. Especially the musicians that need the support...


 

 This is true... _and important_. In my own experience, supporting musicians has very much been a apart of my life; background. As well as my volunteer efforts and donations with libraries over the years. While traditionally, I have only ripped in moderation. I'd be supporting musicians even if I never owned a piece a gear. And yes, media sales are one way of supporting your artists. 
   
  I'm fully behind your message - glad someone jumped in! And if I recall, you too, are a musician. Will show my fellow head-fier support soon!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> But what if you take out CD's and just listen to them and then bring them back.  what's the moral compass on that?


 

 Intent; practices - they matter. That said, you are funding the library system through taxes. Additionally, donors also contribute money & media... I do both, as well as volunteer time. Because I started research and ripping music while at University (and starving like some students are known to do), I saw it both ways and had it both ways.
   
  But I also work to support and contribute to music, _not simply 'rip' because I can_. Music is a vital part of my diet ("way of life"). I agree, library sessions keeps me from hoarding and ripping unnecessarily.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Intent; practices - they matter. That said, you are funding the library system through taxes. Additionally, donors also contribute money & media... I do both, as well as volunteer time. Because I started research and ripping music while at University (and starving like some students are known to do), I saw it both ways and had it both ways.
> 
> But I also work to support and contribute to music, _not simply 'rip' because I can_. Music is a vital part of my diet ("way of life"). I agree, library sessions keeps me from hoarding and ripping unnecessarily.


 
  Same thing goes for DVD's and books from the library.
   
  BTW, I give away all the compositions I compose.  Have never asked for a cent even for the few TV shows I've scored music for.


----------



## emremusic

Of course that is cool. I don't want to sound like a moral police, i am guilty of this myself...
  but lately i realize the importance of this more... i am having to sell my own recordings. if we dont sell enough cds, we will not be able to record the next record.
   
  sorry about that, i dont want to get off topic from woo gear!! i just had to speak up on this one thing..
   
   
   

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> But what if you take out CD's and just listen to them and then bring them back.  what's the moral compass on that?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Thanks for the advice.  I lost my entire music collection (8 years worth) about a month ago--hard drive failure.  (Back up was temporarily housing other files, just my luck.)
> 
> This should help.


 

 I remember (sorry about your experience). Can donate a few CDs/DVDs... PM sent!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Of course that is cool. I don't want to sound like a moral police, i am guilty of this myself...
> but lately i realize the importance of this more... i am having to sell my own recordings. if we dont sell enough cds, we will not be able to record the next record.
> 
> sorry about that, i dont want to get off topic from woo gear!! i just had to speak up on this one thing..


 

 It's easy for one to get carried away. Especially with the ease of which we can 'get' things. You were absolutely right to step in with a reminder. To me, that's just a good sense of community here... I like the membership @ head-fi.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Same thing goes for DVD's and books from the library.
> 
> BTW, I give away all the compositions I compose.  Have never asked for a cent even for the few TV shows I've scored music for.


 


  That's great!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I spit on the floor when ever the word DAT comes up.  I curse the day it was invented.  Damn I just spit on my office floor again.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have Patricia Barber's Companion Hybrid SACD and I love the sound of her voice.


 


  Sounds like you may enjoy some vintage Astrud Gilberto as well...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So the deal is to bring equipment to the library and rip there, rather than take stuff home and then bring it back?  Sounds like a lot of equipment, and nobody hassled you?  What Sony DAT were you using?


 

 I was free to check-out whatever media I wanted. But since I primarily work at the house (cabin fever), going to the library offers me respite... _this is healthy. _No hassles. And amount of gear  depended on my time; type of visit: single notebook to the Airline tote w/wheels (loaded with electronic goodness).
   
  I'm going to hold a mini-mini (very mini) meet at Dublin Library in Aug/Sep I think. Perhaps, 4-5 members around The East Bay near by. Shipsupt and I will work something out... whatever it is, it's goin' to be Woo-tastic!
   
  1995 Sony TCD-D8... _pristine condition!_


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I was free to check-out whatever media I wanted. But since I primarily work at the house (cabin fever), going to the library offers me respite... _this is healthy. _No hassles. And amount of gear was depended on my time; type of visit: single notebook to the Airline tote w/wheels (loaded with electronic goodness).
> 
> I'm going to hold a mini-mini (very mini) meet at Dublin Library in Aug/Sep I think. Perhaps, 4-5 members around The East Bay near by. Shipsupt and I will work something out... whatever it is, it's goin' to be Woo-tastic!
> 
> 1995 Sony TCD-D8... _pristine condition!_


 

 A Woo meetup!  Way cool.  Let me know when it is, and schedule permitting, maybe I can make it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A Woo meetup!  Way cool.  Let me know when it is, and schedule permitting, maybe I can make it.


 

 Ahhhhh, eloquence when I need it - "A Woo meetup!" Really, a mini-mini (very mini) meet?! _I could use more sleep!_  My primary focus right now is getting inside your listening room. Afterwards, we'll (shipsupt) start planning for the much preferred_ 'Woo meetup!'  _


----------



## WarriorAnt

How tubes are made.
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCksgN7kiv4&feature=player_embedded
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J61hHMjxzC4&feature=player_embedded


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I remember DATs.


 


  Me too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used to have a Denon DAT home recorder, Sony DAT walkman and Sony DAT car stereo... The glorious early 90s


----------



## bergnerm

The black one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> When I first laid eyes on the Woo Audio WA6 Special Edition, with its twin chassis design it was love at first sight! Deciding which color is definitely a luxury and dilemma worth having. I'm sure you'll be pleased no matter which color you bring home (_Psssst... get the black one!_).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ahhhhh, eloquence when I need it - "A Woo meetup!" Really, a mini-mini (very mini) meet?! _I could use more sleep!_  My primary focus right now is getting inside your listening room. Afterwards, we'll (shipsupt) start planning for the much preferred_ 'Woo meetup!'  _


 

 Got it.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Me too
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow, I thought I was craz back then...


----------



## shipsupt

warriorant said:


> How tubes are made.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCksgN7kiv4&feature=player_embedded
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J61hHMjxzC4&feature=player_embedded




Cool videos! Can you imagine doing that intricate hand assembly work all day long?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Cool videos! Can you imagine doing that intricate hand assembly work all day long?


 

 I bet some of those hot metal baths were toxic...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Cool videos! Can you imagine doing that intricate hand assembly work all day long?


 

 I could if Jazz; Classical, were allowed in the background. _Also, I would have really enjoyed seeing the microphone used by the narrator... a golden era classic, no doubt!_


----------



## PanamaRed

New goodies for the 22.... Raytheon and Sylvania VT-99's. Got them yesterday.


----------



## bergnerm

These are great... thanks for sharing!
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How tubes are made.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCksgN7kiv4&feature=player_embedded
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J61hHMjxzC4&feature=player_embedded


----------



## mikemalter

Starting to test the ripping of my CD collection.  Ripping a few test CD's as flac and wav and will do some listening tests.
   
  Also, DAC-2 nearing 72 hours.  Bass was bloated yesterday and tightened up considerably today.  Some harshness and edginess is still there but not as pronounced.  I'm hoping it settles down soon.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Starting to test the ripping of my CD collection.  Ripping a few test CD's as flac and wav and will do some listening tests.
> 
> Also, DAC-2 nearing 72 hours.  Bass was bloated yesterday and tightened up considerably today.  Some harshness and edginess is still there but not as pronounced.  I'm hoping it settles down soon.


 

 72 hours is nothing yet. got to get to 200.     
   
  Are you ripping AIFF files to WAV?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Starting to test the ripping of my CD collection.  Ripping a few test CD's as flac and wav and will do some listening tests.
> 
> Also, DAC-2 nearing 72 hours.  Bass was bloated yesterday and tightened up considerably today.  Some harshness and edginess is still there but not as pronounced.  I'm hoping it settles down soon.


 

 Let's pretend:
  You are on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner and your destination is 200. You are currently at 72--right? So kick back and let the Dreamliner zip past the clouds and cut through the clear air turbulence. You'll start to feel less anxious when you begin to coast closer toward 200 as WarriorAnt has suggested. The flight may be bumpy on the way but at least you have a destination point. You are not yet where you want to be so put on your headphones, don't ring the flight attendant unless you need a drink, and do not unfasten your seatbelt until the aircraft has come to a complete stop at the gate and the Captain has turned off the fasten seatbelt signs.
   
  And wake me when you get there.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Let's pretend:
> You are on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner and your destination is 200. You are currently at 72--right? So kick back and let the Dreamliner zip past the clouds and cut through the clear air turbulence. You'll start to feel less anxious when you begin to coast closer toward 200 as WarriorAnt has suggested. The flight may be bumpy on the way but at least you have a destination point. You are not yet where you want to be so put on your headphones, don't ring the flight attendant unless you need a drink, and do not unfasten your seatbelt until the aircraft has come to a complete stop at the gate and the Captain has turned off the fasten seatbelt signs.
> 
> And wake me when you get there.


 
  it's interesting to hear Mikes observations of the DAC-2 changing its sonic character as it breaks in, if not to verify from a seasoned pair of ears that burn in for the DAC-2 does exist and to prove also that burn in of a component does exist.  Keep posting those observations. I want to see how they compare with my own observation of the DAC-2.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> it's interesting to hear Mikes observations of the DAC-2 changing its sonic character as it breaks in, if not to verify from a seasoned pair of ears that burn in for the DAC-2 does exist and to prove also that burn in of a component does exist.  Keep posting those observations. I want to see how they compare with my own observation of the DAC-2.


 

 That's a very good point, WarriorAnt.
   
  Yes, Mike, keep posting those observations like a seasoned pilot calling attention to what's happening during your flight on the way to your final destination. And then some!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> 72 hours is nothing yet. got to get to 200.
> 
> Are you ripping AIFF files to WAV?


 

 I have the DAC going 24/7 so it should be there toward the end of this week.
   
  Right now I am ripping CD's I own to WAV as a test.  Then I'm going to rip tham to FLAC and compare.  My inclination now is to rip my physical collection as WAV, and then buy the highest resolution possible and not convert to WAV but leave it as it is sold.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Let's pretend:
> You are on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner and your destination is 200. You are currently at 72--right? So kick back and let the Dreamliner zip past the clouds and cut through the clear air turbulence. You'll start to feel less anxious when you begin to coast closer toward 200 as WarriorAnt has suggested. The flight may be bumpy on the way but at least you have a destination point. You are not yet where you want to be so put on your headphones, don't ring the flight attendant unless you need a drink, and do not unfasten your seatbelt until the aircraft has come to a complete stop at the gate and the Captain has turned off the fasten seatbelt signs.
> 
> And wake me when you get there.


 

 Ok!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's a very good point, WarriorAnt.
> 
> Yes, Mike, keep posting those observations like a seasoned pilot calling attention to what's happening during your flight on the way to your final destination. And then some!


 

 There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots!
  
  One point is that I was very surprised that the base got all bloated and then firmed up.  I have not heard that before.  This DAC does go all over the map during breakin, that is for sure.


----------



## mikemalter

A question I could use some help answering.
   
  When going from a computer to a DAC via USB I can see where a higher quality USB cable would come into play to help get audio quality high.  The guys at W4S swear by it.  My question is related somewhat in that would a higher quality USB cable help audio quality if I am connecting a USB drive but only transfering files?  I'm asking as I'd like to optimize the HDD connection to my Bryston BDP-1.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A question I could use some help answering.
> 
> When going from a computer to a DAC via USB I can see where a higher quality USB cable would come into play to help get audio quality high.  The guys at W4S swear by it.  My question is related somewhat in that would a higher quality USB cable help audio quality if I am connecting a USB drive but only transfering files?  I'm asking as I'd like to optimize the HDD connection to my Bryston BDP-1.


 

 The PureMusic guys recommend to use a firewire or ESATA HDD interface if using a USB connection for your DAC if possible, they only want a USB HDD connection if using optical or coax directly out of the sound card.
   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have the DAC going 24/7 so it should be there toward the end of this week.
> 
> Right now I am ripping CD's I own to WAV as a test.  Then I'm going to rip tham to FLAC and compare.  My inclination now is to rip my physical collection as WAV, and then buy the highest resolution possible and not convert to WAV but leave it as it is sold.


 

 Why did you pick WAV over AIFF?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Why did you pick WAV over AIFF?


 


  I guess this was really my question?   i would have kept the AIFF files and simply transferred them using something like XLD.


----------



## grokit

I though that I read that WAV doesn't support tags, but this may differ on PCs and Macs.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The PureMusic guys recommend to use a firewire or ESATA HDD interface if using a USB connection for your DAC if possible, they only want a USB HDD connection if using optical or coax directly out of the sound card.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you pick WAV over AIFF?


 


 Hey Grokit,
   
  It's not going from my usb drive to my dac, but to the BDP-1 which is a digital player that connects to a dac.  Also, there is no firewire input on the back of the BDP, just usb.  I did find an answer on the Bryston board.  It seems that jitter is not an issue until the file is opened and is playing, until then it is just a file.  So it's just a file until it gets to the Juli@ sound card in the BDP which means I don't need anything other than a standard issue usb cable.
   
  No reason for picking WAV over AIFF.  Do you think that AIFF is superior to WAV?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I though that I read that WAV doesn't support tags, but this may differ on PCs and Macs.


 


 Wav does not support embedded images or tags, but dBpoweramp creates separate files that are read and understood by the BDP.


----------



## grokit

So you are using your computer to rip and download music but then transferring to the BDP-1 USB drive for streaming, can you have the drive mounted on both or do you have to unmount from the BDP-1 and mount to your computer etc.?
   
  I would have thought that the streamer would be fed by a digital output from the DAC out of your computer. It seems like you are exiting the iTunes universe for something much more specialized with the BDP-1 if dBpoweramp is creating files just for it but I don't know really...
   
  I have all of my music in ALAC format, which works great except for the fact that when I try to transfer my library to a Windows formatted HDD most of it won't copy. So I was thinking of re-ripping in Windows and decided on AIFF because of the tag thing. But I never got around to it after a few dozen CDs or so, the whole notion of re-ripping everything kind of faded away into the ether as I don't boot into Windows much on my Mac Pro so that's as far as I got.
   
  Your system seems "different" to me, I think I would either stream straight out of my computer or get a DAC/streamer like maybe a Transporter or a Chord all in one unit to do it externally, does your BDP-1 function the same whether you use it with the BDA-1 or the DAC-2?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey Grokit,
> 
> It's not going from my usb drive to my dac, but to the BDP-1 which is a digital player that connects to a dac.  Also, there is no firewire input on the back of the BDP, just usb.  I did find an answer on the Bryston board.  It seems that jitter is not an issue until the file is opened and is playing, until then it is just a file.  So it's just a file until it gets to the Juli@ sound card in the BDP which means I don't need anything other than a standard issue usb cable.
> 
> No reason for picking WAV over AIFF.  Do you think that AIFF is superior to WAV?


 
  My thinking is that when it is already in AIFF form on the CD any conversion to another format such as WAV in this case is a conversion that can add error as opposed to a straight transfer of the AIFF but I'm not really sure which is why I'm curious about all this.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So you are using your computer to rip and download music but then transferring to the BDP-1 USB drive for streaming, can you have the drive mounted on both or do you have to unmount from the BDP-1 and mount to your computer etc.?
> 
> I would have thought that the streamer would be fed by a digital output from the DAC out of your computer. It seems like you are exiting the iTunes universe for something much more specialized with the BDP-1 if dBpoweramp is creating files just for it but I don't know really...
> 
> ...


 

  
  Here is what is going on.  The Bryston BDP-1 is a digital player, that is it accepts ripped music in any format, bit depth and sample size from an attached usb device like a thumb drive or usb drive and outputs a digital signal that gets sent to a DAC.
   
  I settled on the BDP because all streaming media devices I was listening to sounded harsh to me; computers, dedicated streaming devices and even DAC's with streamers built in.  When I tried the BDP-1, I could hear no glare or harshness, and could hear more detail; in effect I was hearing very high quality audio.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My thinking is that when it is already in AIFF form on the CD any conversion to another format such as WAV in this case is a conversion that can add error as opposed to a straight transfer of the AIFF but I'm not really sure which is why I'm curious about all this.


 

 WA, thanks for mentioning this.  I'll look into it.  It is worth spending the time upfront since I am going to be living with this for a very long time.
   
  Hey, I pulled the HDD out of my QNAP and put it in a portable drive enclosure so now I have a really nice 2 terabyte drive to start my media library with.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I guess this was really my question?   i would have kept the AIFF files and simply transferred them using something like XLD.


 


 WA, I just looked up XLD and it appears that it is for Mac's only.


----------



## Silent One

Weather Update ~
   
  A bit bleary-eyed but, in following this thread this morning (and shedding my own previous impressions), after further review neither AIFF or WAV are native files to the CD. The CD's native file is the 16-bit PCM data file. AIFF/WAV are merely headers with byte-ordering information (Bond: "_Shaken, not stirred..."_). And neither are superior. In my view, all choices regarding the introduction of a file to be played in one's system is hardware/software dependent.
   
  Take the new Bryston BDP-1 or example. This well designed handcrafted Linux based digital player seems secure in its place inside the digital domain. Reports have returned that playback is smooth, refined and docile. _The Devil himself could be lurking inside the chassis and you'd never know it by the player's output- a pure unadulterated signal_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Decisions regarding input should come much easier with gear like this.
   
  With each generation, revamp or reconfiguration of my system, comes the questions anew: uncompressed/compression; which container? What's more, I noticed each time my gear brings new tech to the table, the choices are less relevant thanks to advances. At this point, the only remaining question for me is "Do I own the disc?" (sure, space, tags and other decisions await but nuthin' that would interrupt my serving of tea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  This Weather Update is brought to you in part by Silent One and the groundbreaking Jazz group Weather Report. Currently playing their hit "125th Street Congress" from the album Sweetnighter - 1973. Between my emerging W4S DAC-1 and my solid WA6SE, the track sounds amazing... _especially at this hour!_


----------



## dminches

The other item worth noting is that of all the "processes" being discussed, the one which is most prone to errors is CD ripping.  If you can get past that stage with the music unaltered I don't think you will see any appreciable difference between file formats, either compressed or uncompressed.  For me, the ability to tag is huge which eliminates WAV.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The other item worth noting is that of all the "processes" being discussed, the one which is most prone to errors is CD ripping.  If you can get past that stage with the music unaltered I don't think you will see any appreciable difference between file formats, either compressed or uncompressed.  For me, the ability to tag is huge which eliminates WAV.


 

 Agreed. The outset is quite the hurdle. When you consider the amount of time many of us put in to our tube gear operations, you'd think we'd also have the patience for 'ripping.'


----------



## jamesnz

Do scratches on discs make a difference to how well a CD can be ripped? If they don't skip or jump, does it make a difference?
  My local library CD's look like somebody cleaned them with steel wool.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Weather Update ~
> 
> A bit bleary-eyed but, in following this thread this morning (and shedding my own previous impressions), after further review neither AIFF or WAV are native files to the CD. The CD's native file is the 16-bit PCM data file. AIFF/WAV are merely headers with byte-ordering information (Bond: "_Shaken, not stirred..."_). And neither are superior. In my view, all choices regarding the introduction of a file to be played in one's system is hardware/software dependent.
> 
> ...


 

 SilentOne, yes; a balanced perspective is the most helpful to enjoying the most life has to offer, I like it.  I think like anything when something new comes into the mix, each fact or piece of information or theory hasn't been balanced out with a practical result yet so one does not know how to value it yet.  Where does it go, how much weight does it have and how does it factor in.  I think the end result of it all is your last sentence.
  
   


  Quote: 





dminches said:


> The other item worth noting is that of all the "processes" being discussed, the one which is most prone to errors is CD ripping.  If you can get past that stage with the music unaltered I don't think you will see any appreciable difference between file formats, either compressed or uncompressed.  For me, the ability to tag is huge which eliminates WAV.


 


 Errors are big, see answer below.  What do tags bring to the party?
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Agreed. The outset is quite the hurdle. When you consider the amount of time many of us put in to our tube gear operations, you'd think we'd also have the patience for 'ripping.'


 

 Ripping was never high on my priority list while living in the Apple Walled Garden.  iTunes (which can't even start a sentence properly) was my gateway to my iPod and whatever it did was enought for me.  But now there are more choices, and it does take time and effort to understand what ripping options are out there and then more effort to think it through so that it produces a result that works best for ourselves not to even speak of the time required to create the library.  But ahhhhh, as one who is scratching the surface (maybe I can make that my new name OneWhoIsScratchingTheSurface; kind of like DancesWithWolves), I can see that the payoff will be huge down the road.
  
   


  Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Do scratches on discs make a difference to how well a CD can be ripped? If they don't skip or jump, does it make a difference?
> My local library CD's look like somebody cleaned them with steel wool.


 
  Yes, scratches on disks make a difference, but as you say if they don't skip or jump and as long as they sound alright, IMHO it doesn't make a difference.  Having said that, my current ripping software, dBpoweramp (among others) has an error strategy they call AccuRate.  Basically after you rip your track, your rip is compared to a database and then a confidence level is created that indicates how many others successfully ripped that track.  While it does not correct anything, it does let you know that there may have been errors and you can take appropriate action.  I'm about to start using my local library and will face what you face.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Do scratches on discs make a difference to how well a CD can be ripped? If they don't skip or jump, does it make a difference?
> My local library CD's look like somebody cleaned them with steel wool.


 

 Perhaps. As can foreign matter (dirty discs). I've seen some of the very CDs you mentioned - _the horror_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Also, not all 'drives' are created equal. My internal drive gets tripped up easier and returns errors than an external drive  when challenged by discs in poor condition. Make sure you select 'Error correction' in your ripper.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SilentOne, yes; a balanced perspective is the most helpful to enjoying the most life has to offer, I like it.  I think like anything when something new comes into the mix, each fact or piece of information or theory hasn't been balanced out with a practical result yet so one does not know how to value it yet.  Where does it go, how much weight does it have and how does it factor in.  I think the end result of it all is your last sentence.


 
   
   
  Just as we headed into the holiday weekend you mentioned Janos Starker. A quick library check revealed _I only have one CD...?_ So, last night I pulled the trigger on a DVD-DAD 96/24 kHz "Starker Plays Baker." My new system has me excited again to review & renew the audio library...


----------



## Silent One

Another wonderful Woo Audio session in the books (4 hours). Time for a nap! back at it 12 noon...


----------



## FlyingBear

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have the DAC going 24/7 so it should be there toward the end of this week.
> 
> Right now I am ripping CD's I own to WAV as a test.  Then I'm going to rip tham to FLAC and compare.  My inclination now is to rip my physical collection as WAV, and then buy the highest resolution possible and not convert to WAV but leave it as it is sold.


 

 Assuming no bugs, FLAC is truly lossless in both the compress and uncompress directions. It's easy to verify this yourself by comparing files bit-for-bit. As an extreme example, you can download a FLAC from, say, HDTracks.com, convert it to ALAC, convert that to WAV, then to FLAC, then to ALAC, then back to FLAC, and the bits will be the same.
   
  I take the point that, eventually, a library may become obsolete and that an unintentional error causes an old FLAC file to be unreadable sometime in the future. This is unlikely to be a "sudden" thing; you'll be able to run the old decompresser for a long time (e.g. you can run DOS applications in a VM on Windows 7 x64, spanning many generations of technology).
   
  Having said that, it's a matter of personal preference, somewhat outside the realms of hard science. The bits are the same, but I guess that it's possible that the act of decompressing a FLAC loads a CPU enough to cause timing issues in the outgoing bit stream; at the same time, the act of reading roughly twice as much WAV data versus FLAC from memory or a hard drive might have similar effects. There's really no right or wrong answer, and storage is cheap: 1000 albums are 600GB in WAV, 300GB in FLAC, i.e. $55 or $28 worth of storage, twice that with a backup. Big deal. In due course, you'll have a $5 thumb drive with this capacity.
   
  The psychology of high-end audio seems to be as important as the science, and arguing about that is generally as effective as trying to teach a pig to sing: at the end, you're annoyed, the pig is annoyed, but you still don't have a singing pig


----------



## Golfnutz

Totally agree - neither is wrong.  Would you like that Lobster steamed or broiled. Either way, they're both gonna taste good (that's if you like lobster).


----------



## dminches

Good post, Flying Bear.  You have made a lot of good points that I agree with.  Everything is a trade off but without big consequences.


----------



## Icenine2

Apex, WA22 and Cavalli Liquid Fire comparo
   
http://www.avguide.com/review/three-top-tier-headphone-amplifiers-hardcore-high-enders
   
  I'll have my Liquid Fire when I get back from vacation.  Review to follow!


----------



## Golfnutz

Secrets did a review of the Bryston BDP-1 - http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> WA, I just looked up XLD and it appears that it is for Mac's only.


 
  sorry I thought you were a Mac guy.


----------



## nututubes

dminches said:


> The other item worth noting is that of all the "processes" being discussed, the one which is most prone to errors is CD ripping.  If you can get past that stage with the music unaltered I don't think you will see any appreciable difference between file formats, either compressed or uncompressed.  For me, the ability to tag is huge which eliminates WAV.




Agreed 100%.


----------



## nututubes

flyingbear said:


> Assuming no bugs, FLAC is truly lossless in both the compress and uncompress directions. It's easy to verify this yourself by comparing files bit-for-bit. As an extreme example, you can download a FLAC from, say, HDTracks.com, convert it to ALAC, convert that to WAV, then to FLAC, then to ALAC, then back to FLAC, and the bits will be the same.
> 
> I take the point that, eventually, a library may become obsolete and that an unintentional error causes an old FLAC file to be unreadable sometime in the future. This is unlikely to be a "sudden" thing; you'll be able to run the old decompresser for a long time (e.g. you can run DOS applications in a VM on Windows 7 x64, spanning many generations of technology).
> 
> ...




Ageed, rip to flac and enjoy.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Secrets did a review of the Bryston BDP-1 - http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/


 

 Nice, thanks.


----------



## MacedonianHero

My WA22 arrived today....very impressed with it so far with my LCD-2s. I immediately popped in my NOS Tung-Sol 7236s (but I'm using the stock driver and rectifier tubes....for now anyway ). I am really digging the combination about 30 minutes in. Dave (davo50) mentioned that he pretty much burned it in over the past 3 months. 

I plan on writing a comparative review (quick one though as between work and my 2 young kids, finding time is not easy). I plan to compare my LCD-2s, HD800s and T1s (in that order) using both the WA22 (tubes mentioned above) and my (or should I say Sophonax's WA2) with Tung-Sol 5998s, Mullard CV2492s and Mullard EZ80s. 

One thing I can definitely say at this range, the law of diminished returns is certainly kicking in.....but there still are some improvements (mostly subtle).


----------



## grokit

Congrats Peter! We're talking about the WA22 and not the LCD-2, yes?
   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Nice, thanks.





   
  Mike, are you using M-Pod? What control device are you using with the BDP-1?
   
  Also is there added functionality when using it with the Bryston DAC compared to the W4S?
   
  I would definitely stay away from WAV, as the tag files you are generating for the BDP-1 may not be what you want if you migrate to a different playback device. Genuine tagging would be better for avoiding potential problems in the future when converting to different formats/devices/applications.


----------



## MacedonianHero

grokit said:


> Congrats Peter! We're talking about the WA22 and not the LCD-2, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes...WA22. I meant it paired with my LCD-2s. 

I just cleaned it up a bit.


----------



## Skylab

Very cool, Peter. Glad you are liking it!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congrats Peter! We're talking about the WA22 and not the LCD-2, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 With the BDP-1 I'm using the mPod, the built-in web page on the BDP-1 and Gnome.
   
  There is no additional functionality when using the BDP-1 with the BDA-1.  One thing though that is being brought forward as a benefit is that both units are impedence matched.  I am not sure what that means, or what it brings to the party, but that is what is being said.
   
  On the topic of the DAC, the Bryston DAC is very smooth and I have less hours on it than the W4S.  I have 100 hours on the W4S and it is sounding very harsh right now.  The Bryston is sounding very smooth and the bass has finally fleshed out (it was very thin before).  I am surprised actually by the Bryston as previously I did not think much of them - not because of any technical knowledge, just never was in their marketing profile and nobody on any board I ever hung out on ever said anything about them.  So far its the Bryston DAC by a neck, but we are only up to 100 hours and no decision will be final until after the 200 hour mark.
   
  Regarding FLAC, if I understand you correctly, a FLAC media library is more flexible than a WAV media library because it can store tags in the file?  I am looking for the most practical way to do this and am not married to anything.  So far in my listening tests, FLAC and WAV sound similiar, so now it is a matter of logistics. 
   
  I am very interested if anybody has any "case-in-point" stories to tell.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> My WA22 arrived today....very impressed with it so far with my LCD-2s. I immediately popped in my NOS Tung-Sol 7236s (but I'm using the stock driver and rectifier tubes....for now anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Have fun, you are going to love it!


----------



## bergnerm

I'll definitely look forward to this review...
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> My WA22 arrived today....very impressed with it so far with my LCD-2s. I immediately popped in my NOS Tung-Sol 7236s (but I'm using the stock driver and rectifier tubes....for now anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BrucYSN

It's not fair to use the stock tubes.... They make the biggest difference and you u need the balanced input on WA22 otherwise it's a waste


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> With the BDP-1 I'm using the mPod, the built-in web page on the BDP-1 and Gnome.
> 
> snip
> 
> Regarding FLAC, if I understand you correctly, a FLAC media library is more flexible than a WAV media library because it can store tags in the file?  I am looking for the most practical way to do this and am not married to anything.  So far in my listening tests, FLAC and WAV sound similiar, so now it is a matter of logistics.


 
   
  If there was ever a reason to buy an iPad I would think that your BDP-1 would be it:
   

   
  What a killer wireless remote.
   
  I would consider AIFF as well as FLAC for archiving if I was you, but that's just me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If there was ever a reason to buy an iPad I would think that your BDP-1 would be it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That screen shot looks so good, I was tempted to "click & scroll"... _think I'll try it anyway!_
   

 My library from 2008-2010 was dominated by ALAC, with AIFF, FLAC & WAV coming in about 10% each. From 2010-2011 my library is balanced mostly between AIFF & ALAC (we're in transition). But FLAC & WAV still have their roles to play.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That screen shot looks so good, I was tempted to "click & scroll"... _think I'll try it anyway!_
> 
> 
> My library from 2008-2010 was dominated by ALAC, with AIFF, FLAC & WAV coming in about 10% each. From 2010-2011 my library is balanced mostly between AIFF & ALAC (we're in transition). But FLAC & WAV still have their roles to play.


 

 Your're AIFF and ALAC because you're on a Mac, right?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If there was ever a reason to buy an iPad I would think that your BDP-1 would be it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You are a BAD man, Grokit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Actually, an iPad is in my future, but really way down the road.  It does look purdy though.
   
  Right now it's between FLAC & WAV.  I'm learning about what tags are and what their value brings and how each format stores tags and how other applications relate to the formats' storage.  Basically, I'm looking for a good reason to get talked out of WAV which is my default because it has more information and that's just me.  However, as I learn more, tagging seems to be important down the road, and since sonically FLAC = WAV, the more flexible format seems the way to go.


----------



## BrucYSN

uh.... I give up on ripping long ago....


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Your're AIFF and ALAC because you're on a Mac, right?


 

 Aren't all CD's AIFF format?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Your're AIFF and ALAC because you're on a Mac, right?


 
   
  I am using ALAC because I am on a Mac, but it works fine in Windows as well. The only thing that trips me up is the different HDD formats for the two platforms. I was going to go with AIFF for ultimate re-archiving on a Windows platform but that project got pushed to the back burner.
   

  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You are a BAD man, Grokit
> 
> 
> 
> ...




   
  Heh, you are right but I've been called worse. I would say that sonically AIFF = WAV, and FLAC = ALAC. The differences are minute depending on other factors but they are there.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Aren't all CD's AIFF format?


 

 I don't know.  What are you thinking?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Your're AIFF and ALAC because you're on a Mac, right?


 

 Initially with iTunes (the iPods; iTouch & iPhone) on Windows. However, since smelling the tea leaves & drinking the kool-aid inside Apple's Walled-Garden, I rarely take the Windows rig down the street anymore...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Aren't all CD's AIFF format?


 
   

 No. All CD's are 16-bit PCM files. Correction: *What is CD-A?*
CD-A (Compact Disc Audio) is the format to which domestic and commercial CD players adhere. When you create a music CD on a computer it is burnt in the CD-A format. All music purchased from a music store on CD is in the CD-A format.

 This is the standard Audio CD format and is used by all manufacturers of hi-fi, CD, Discman etc. Almost all CD burning software supports this format enabling anyone with a modern computer to create Audio CD's.

 By default Audio CD's can hold 74 minutes of audio regardless of sound quality. All music on an audio CD is created as CD quality 44.1KHz, 16-Bit, Stereo. File size of CD-A compares to that of other uncompressed formats such as WAV and AIFF.


----------



## Eee Pee

Yes, PCM.
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_pulse_code_modulation
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulation
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No. All CD's are 16-bit PCM files. The production house can choose what headers they like (usually AIFF or WAV) for byte ordering information ect... _as I understand it._


 
  this is where it gets confusing for me.  I've only ever used a Mac machine to access CD's.  When I mount any CD that I have and open the CD icon on the desktop it opens and I see AIFF icons. Then when I click get info it says the file is "AIFF-C audio".  I never seen WAV files on a CD so I'm confused.


----------



## MacedonianHero

brucysn said:


> It's not fair to use the stock tubes.... They make the biggest difference and you u need the balanced input on WA22 otherwise it's a waste




Since when are NOS 7236 Tung-Sols "stock"?  

I only have my WA2 until Friday morning, then it's off to Sophonax as he's the new owner. My source will be my buddy's Bryston BDP-1 DAC and my Cary Xciter DAC playing CDs from my Marantz CD player.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> this is where it gets confusing for me.  I've only ever used a Mac machine to access CD's.  When I mount any CD that I have and open the CD icon on the desktop it opens and I see AIFF icons. Then when I click get info it says the file is "AIFF-C audio".  I never seen WAV files on a CD so I'm confused.


 

 AIFF on Mac OS X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Interchange_File_Format)
   
  : : : Apple Computer originally co-developed AIFF; modified it later to optimize programs on OS X (reason behind AIFF-C) : : : 
   
  With the development of the Mac OS X operating system, Apple created a new type of AIFF which is, in effect, an alternative little-endian byte order format.[3][4]

  Because the AIFF architecture has no provision for alternative byte order, Apple used the existing AIFF-C compression architecture, and created a "pseudo-compressed" codec called *sowt* (*twos* spelled backwards). The only difference between a standard AIFF file and an AIFF-C/sowt file is the byte order; there is no compression involved at all.[5]


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> AIFF on Mac OS X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Interchange_File_Format)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So when you're on an apple machine how do you know if the file is AIFF or WAV?  Because I use a lot of WAV files for composing and they show up in the Mac finder as WAV files.  am I tossing in CD's and the Mac finder is telling me that WAV files are actually AIFF files?


----------



## grokit

There's no compression with WAV either. With FLAC and ALAC, the music isn't compressed either (but the data is) hence the term lossless. With FLAC/ALAC, the file size is half of AIFF/WAV because all extraneous non-audio information in eliminated so they have to be decoded but not uncompressed; all the audio information is still there but it does take some data processing to listen to the files.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So when you're on an apple machine how do you know if the file is AIFF or WAV?  Because I use a lot of WAV files for composing and they show up in the Mac finder as WAV files.  am I tossing in CD's and the Mac finder is telling me that WAV files are actually AIFF files?


 

 PM sent...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So when you're on an apple machine how do you know if the file is AIFF or WAV?  Because I use a lot of WAV files for composing and they show up in the Mac finder as WAV files.  am I tossing in CD's and the Mac finder is telling me that WAV files are actually AIFF files?


 

 So you're talking about listening to a CD out of your Mac without ripping it first? What is the point of that when there are so many better transports available for listening straight from CDs?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So you're talking about listening to a CD out of your Mac without ripping it first? What is the point of that when there are so many better transports available for listening to CDs?


 
  It's not clear what you're saying here?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It's not clear what you're saying here?


 

 I'm just saying that when you rip a CD using iTunes to a Mac (or PC for that matter), you are going to choose your format (AIFF, WAV, ALAC, etc.), and when you look at the ripped file on your hard drive that choice is the type of file you will be seeing in Finder/Explorer. With other ripping programs you have more format choices like FLAC but the concept remains the same.


----------



## vinyllp33

I now find it almost impossible to fully enjoy a CD played back in even a very high end transport as compared to the disc being ripped and sent via Pure Music Memory Play into the same DAC.

It is still very different than really good analog but exists on it's own plane that in several areas can be quite superior.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm just saying that when you rip a CD using iTunes to a Mac (or PC for that matter), you are going to choose your format (AIFF, WAV, ALAC, etc.), and when you look at the ripped file on your hard drive that choice is the type of file you will be seeing in Finder/Explorer. With other ripping programs you have more format choices like FLAC but the concept remains the same.


 

 I know that but I'm not talking about ripping choices.  I was wondering why when I click on the CD icon on the desktop and it opens I always see AIFF files and never see WAV files. Because of that I always assumed all files on music CD's were AIFF files.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I was wondering why when I click on the CD icon on the desktop and it opens I always see AIFF files and never see WAV files.


 


  AAIF is Apple, WAV is Windows.
   
  From Wikipeeeeedias,
   
*Audio Interchange File Format* (*AIFF*) is an audio file format standard used for storing sound data for personal computers and other electronic audio devices. The format was co-developed[_clarification needed_] by Apple Computer in 1988 
   
*Waveform Audio File Format* (*WAVE*, or more commonly known as *WAV* due to its filename extension),[3][6][7][8] (also, but rarely, named, _Audio for Windows_[9]) is a Microsoft and IBM audio file format standard for storing an audio bitstream on PCs.


----------



## grokit

From the LPCM wiki page that SO referred to:
   

 LPCM is used for the lossless encoding of audio data in the Compact disc Red Book standard (informally also known as _Audio CD_), introduced in 1982.
 AES3 (specified in 1985) is a particular format using LPCM.
 On PCs, the term PCM and LPCM often refer to the format used in WAV (defined in 1991) and AIFF audio container formats (defined in 1988). LPCM data may also be stored in other formats such as AU, raw audio format (header-less file) and various multimedia container formats.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I now find it almost impossible to fully enjoy a CD played back in even a very high end transport as compared to the disc being ripped and sent via Pure Music Memory Play into the same DAC.
> 
> It is still very different than really good analog but exists on it's own plane that in several areas can be quite superior.


 


  x2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know that but I'm not talking about ripping choices.  I was wondering why when I click on the CD icon on the desktop and it opens I always see AIFF files and never see WAV files. Because of that I always assumed all files on music CD's were AIFF files.


 


*What is CD-A?*
CD-A (Compact Disc Audio) is the format to which domestic and commercial CD players adhere. When you create a music CD on a computer it is burnt in the CD-A format. All music purchased from a music store on CD is in the CD-A format.

 This is the standard Audio CD format and is used by all manufacturers of hi-fi, CD, Discman etc. Almost all CD burning software supports this format enabling anyone with a modern computer to create Audio CD's.

 By default Audio CD's can hold 74 minutes of audio regardless of sound quality. All music on an audio CD is created as CD quality 44.1KHz, 16-Bit, Stereo. File size of CD-A compares to that of other uncompressed formats such as WAV and AIFF.


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, now we can focus on dessert... _like Sweet Potato Pie. Or even a Southern Peach Cobbler._


----------



## grokit

So WAV and AIFF are evidently the ways that PC and Macs read the CDA data, respectively.
   
  I thought this part might be particularly relevant to WA:
   
  The Red Book specifies the physical parameters and properties of the CD, the optical "stylus" parameters, deviations and error rate, modulation system (eight-to-fourteen modulation, EFM) and error correction (cross-interleaved Reed-Solomon coding, CIRC), and subcode channels and graphics.
  It also specifies the form of digital audio encoding: 2-channel signed 16-bit Linear PCM sampled at 44,100 Hz. *This sample rate is adapted from that attained when recording digital audio on a PAL (or NTSC) videotape with a PCM adaptor, an earlier way of storing digital audio.[7]*
  An audio CD can represent frequencies up to 22.05 kHz, the Nyquist frequency of the 44.1 kHz sample rate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So WAV and AIFF are evidently the ways that PC and Macs read the CDA data, respectively.
> 
> I thought this part might be particularly relevant to WA:
> 
> ...


 
  Agree. The OS wants to optimize the files ie cross-platform with iTunes, QuickTime ect Apple modified AIFF for AIFF-C.
  
  AIFF & WAV are simply about "Headers" with simple byte ordering instructions. But a standard for the PCM files were needed across the music and audio electronic industry, thus ".cda" was adopted.


----------



## vinyllp33

silent one said:


> Perhaps, now we can focus on dessert... _like Sweet Potato Pie. Or even a Southern Peach Cobbler._



Yes, some _Chocolate Azteca Gelato_ to cool me down as the Woo warms up!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Yes, some _Chocolate Azteca Gelato_ to cool me down as the Woo warms up!


 

_"A Warm Summer Night"_ _brought to you by vinyllp33... _


----------



## Silent One

Autumn 2011 ~
   
  I'm looking for an autumn filled with the NFL & NCAAF; Gold & Scarlet leaves; Pure Canadian Maple Syrup; and WA22 owners filled with lust over Woo Audio's newest gear. Forecast calls for some WA22 liquidations, and a pre-owned '22' inside my listening room year-end...


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> Autumn 2011 ~
> 
> I'm looking for an autumn filled with the NFL & NCAAF; Gold & Scarlet leaves; Pure Canadian Maple Syrup; and WA22 owners filled with lust over Woo Audio's newest gear. Forecast calls for some WA22 liquidations, and a pre-owned '22' inside my listening room year-end...




Et tu, Brute? Where is the 6SE love?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Et tu, Brute? Where is the 6SE love?


 

 The missing link ~
   
  Since putting in to place a balanced DAC; headphones, I'm getting restless! I need that final piece of balanced gear. I'll still cherish each moment with the _Special Edition._ But at some point baby gotta go... _Next!  _





  My WA6SE will be at the center of two celebrations this month - 1 year anniversary/ the 9th; Bastille Day/ the 14th. Cobbler; Cake; Ice-cream; French Bubbly & Wine. 
   
  Why all the excitement? Dividends, in therapeutic spades! The return on investment (my time & involvement; care) with my tube amp is far greater than with my previous ownership of a no fuss solid-state rig._ I am satisfied..._


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Since when are NOS 7236 Tung-Sols "stock"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Let me know what you think of the BDP-1 and DAC as I am evaluating a pair now and would love to compare notes.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Since when are NOS 7236 Tung-Sols "stock"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Let's us know how did it go!!!! You must be bummed as you would probably have to start your journey of hunting tubes once more.... The only down side i felt for W22 >.< Damn though 6SN7 are expensive and rare.... Try your luck on Ebay, I got my EML 5u4G for less than $150...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Autumn 2011 ~
> 
> I'm looking for an autumn filled with the NFL & NCAAF; Gold & Scarlet leaves; Pure Canadian Maple Syrup; and WA22 owners filled with lust over Woo Audio's newest gear. Forecast calls for some WA22 liquidations, and a pre-owned '22' inside my listening room year-end...


 


  Go Patriots!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Go Patriots!


 

  
  I live in the land of Silver & Blackdom... Go Raiders!


----------



## dminches

grokit said:


> This sample rate is adapted from that attained when recording digital audio on a PAL (or NTSC) videotape with a PCM adaptor, an earlier way of storing digital audio.[7]
> An audio CD can represent frequencies up to 22.05 kHz, the Nyquist frequency of the 44.1 kHz sample rate.




The sample rate for PCM is 44.056 which always caused an issue when transferring PCM to DAT.


----------



## flaming_june

Is there even going to be football this season?  But for the realzees, if in the fall people are selling their 22's I'd be highly interested.


----------



## jamesnz

has anybody ordered/used the 6EM7 and adapter to use with their 6SE? is it worth it?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The sample rate for PCM is 44.056 which always caused an issue when transferring PCM to DAT.


 

 Try transferring DAT to PCM in a professional environment.  What a a pian in the...


----------



## Icenine2

I'm not at Computer Audiophile am I.....................................?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> has anybody ordered/used the 6EM7 and adapter to use with their 6SE? is it worth it?


 


  yes, i've tried it on my 6se and they are worth trying. it's essentially a 6gf7a in an 8-pin octal base.
  (the 6gf7a is 9-pin noval base) the output plate resistance is only 750 Ω, very low compared to
  other compatible tubes for the 6se, and SQ is very nice. the grid voltage operates at a much lower
  point than what the 6se is designed for but it's still within operating voltage, just not optimal. if you're
  a diy person then changing it is not difficult, but not recommended if you plan to tube roll other
  types. personally, i think it sounds fine even at the outer ranges of its operating voltages.
  try to get box-plate construction instead of the more common flat-plate, as the former presents
  a more balanced/coherent sound. i prefer the 6gf7a mainly because they are much cheaper to the 6em7.


----------



## dmac03

I just snagged a pair of "rebranded" tung-sol 5U4G's, Dumont and Philco respectively. The pair was surprisingly cheap so I thought it was well worth the risk even if they weren't legitimate.

  The seller states they both have the Tung-Sol EIA code of 322. Additionally, by comparing images I found the innards to be seemingly the same as the branded version.
   
  Any tube experts out there have an opinion?
   
  BTW, I finally snagged the MF M1DAC to play a role as a balanced source for my WA22. Up to this point I've been single-ended out of my old xonar essence stx. For all those (including Jack) that stated that the wa22 needs a balanced source - yes, yes it does. My headphones sing like never before.


----------



## Skylab

Those do look like Tung-Sols, and 322 is indeed the TS code.  Nice find. 
   
  Tung-Sol EIA date codes either went like this:
  322 5904
  where 322 is the manufacturer code (in this case Tungsol), 59 is the year (1959), and 04 is the week.
  And also like this:
  322 6104-1
  322 is Tungsol, 6104 is 1961, 4th week, 1 is the shift code (1 would probably be the day shift)


----------



## dmac03

Rob, as always, thanks for your expertise.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Try transferring DAT to PCM in a professional environment.  What a a pian in the...


 

 I understand that it has the potential to drive someone to have the inclination to "spit on the ground."


----------



## circlark

Hi everyone! (first post - nervous!) I'm about to buy some cans and an amp for the first time (other than the Grados I use with an iPod). I like the looks of the Hifiman phones (perhaps the HE-5 or 5LE is most in my price range). And I LOVE the looks of the WA6, which I could also afford. Could anyone comment on the combination of a WA6 & HE-5 or WA6 & HE-5LE? (I've also thought about AKG 701 / 702s or Beyerdynamic 990 600ohms)

 A little about me... I listen to a wide range of music that does not include classical. Mostly I'm going to put on Indy Rock / well-produced Pop / singer-songwritery stuff. (my favorite artists are John Vanderslice in the US and Quruli in Japan) In my listening room I've got Harbeth C-7 speakers, but with a 5-month old baby girl about to start crawling around, stand-mounted speakers will be effectively banished for a couple of years. Hence the desire to listen to cans!

 I'm not much into tinkering, and I predict that I will make one purchase and probably never roll the tubes until they break. (but who knows, really)

 So, what do y'all think about the WA6 & HE-5 or 5LE? I really appreciate your thoughts or suggestions for other directions.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> I just snagged a pair of "rebranded" tung-sol 5U4G's, Dumont and Philco respectively. The pair was surprisingly cheap so I thought it was well worth the risk even if they weren't legitimate.
> 
> The seller states they both have the Tung-Sol EIA code of 322. Additionally, by comparing images I found the innards to be seemingly the same as the branded version.


 
  Tubes are beautiful just to look at.  what do people do with their tubes when they no longer work?   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WarriorAnt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Try transferring DAT to PCM in a professional environment.  What a a pian in the...
> ...


 
  Try shuttling a DAT in a time code transport under extreme pressure to make air.  Worst invention ever.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Tubes are beautiful just to look at.  what do people do with their tubes when they no longer work?
> 
> Try shuttling a DAT in a time code transport under extreme pressure to make air.  Worst invention ever.


 

 When my tubes die, I recycle them.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





circlark said:


> Hi everyone! (first post - nervous!) I'm about to buy some cans and an amp for the first time (other than the Grados I use with an iPod). I like the looks of the Hifiman phones (perhaps the HE-5 or 5LE is most in my price range). And I LOVE the looks of the WA6, which I could also afford. Could anyone comment on the combination of a WA6 & HE-5 or WA6 & HE-5LE? (I've also thought about AKG 701 / 702s or Beyerdynamic 990 600ohms)
> 
> A little about me... I listen to a wide range of music that does not include classical. Mostly I'm going to put on Indy Rock / well-produced Pop / singer-songwritery stuff. (my favorite artists are John Vanderslice in the US and Quruli in Japan) In my listening room I've got Harbeth C-7 speakers, but with a 5-month old baby girl about to start crawling around, stand-mounted speakers will be effectively banished for a couple of years. Hence the desire to listen to cans!
> 
> ...


 

 I suggest that you look at the HE-500, the other HiFiMAN cans aren't efficient enough for any of the Woo amps except the WA5/LE.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> When my tubes die, I recycle them.


 

 You toss them away in the recycle bin?   You should save the beautiful ones and get a straight board of oak and mount them in a line as a shelf piece...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You toss them away in the recycle bin?   You should save the beautiful ones and get a straight board of oak and mount them in a line as a shelf piece...


 

 The problem is they are all beautiful and so I would never get rid of them otherwise!


----------



## Silent One

When tubes no longer work ~
   
  I've so been so enamored by playback, I had not yet considered their deaths. Something to ponder this afternoon over tea & cookies...


----------



## grokit

The only tube that actually died on me was my EML rectifier, and it was "recycled" to a new one with its warranty


----------



## Skylab

I have thrown at least several dozen tubes in the trash.  If they are bad, they are bad.  Better not to accidentally get them confused with a good one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The only tube that actually died on me was my EML rectifier, and it was "recycled" to a new one with its warranty


 

 Just when I recovered from your experience, the reintroduction brings back fears renewed.


----------



## Silent One

WA 6 Special Edition ~
   
  I'm cleaning things up for my anniversary party and received the following beauty tip from Woo Audio:
   
_"You can use water based metal cleaner/polisher like the Twinkle or even just
 a wet towel would do the job."_ _- Woo Audio_
   
  Going to get my _tea bowl caressing hands_ on Twinkle's Stainless Steel Cleaner and Polish, 17-oz Aerosol Can. Hopefully, this will provide me with careful control and distribution. Making it easy to clean with a light elegant touch, in the same manner I would a *Fabergé egg.*
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have thrown at least several dozen tubes in the trash.  If they are bad, they are bad.  Better not to accidentally get them confused with a good one.


 

 No recycling concerns in Illinois? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  From San Francisco to San Diego and Santa Monica in between, surely head-fier's out West would seek alternative means of disposal other than the 'can.' At least I would hope. However, I do see your point - getting tubes mixed up late into the night? _The horror!  _


----------



## Skylab

We do have recycling, but I am not sure that vacuum tubes qualify for what we recycle here...maybe the ones without the bakelite bases would...


----------



## grokit

If they recycle CFLs that would probably be the way to go.


----------



## Clayton SF

Recycling vacuum tubes as you would glass is not permissible in San Francisco because they may contain hazardous materials. Vacuum tubes contain harmful elements such as heavy metals in their filaments. Like most electronic waste, they require careful consideration. You should contact the Global Electronics Recycling Network. This group maintains a network of electronic recycling organizations in many countries. Use its website to locate an electronics recycling organization near your home; you can find out the drop-off location and the cost of disposing of your vacuum tubes.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Recycling vacuum tubes as you would glass is not permissible in San Francisco because they may contain hazardous materials. Vacuum tubes contain harmful elements such as heavy metals in their filaments. Like most electronic waste, they require careful consideration. You should contact the Global Electronics Recycling Network. This group maintains a network of electronic recycling organizations in many countries. Use its website to locate an electronics recycling organization near your home; you can find out the drop-off location and the cost of disposing of your vacuum tubes.


 
  Just send them to me, I'l make works of art out of them. thats way better than a landfill.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Recycling vacuum tubes as you would glass is not permissible in San Francisco because they may contain hazardous materials. *Vacuum tubes contain harmful elements such as heavy metals in their filaments. Like most electronic waste, they require careful consideration.* You should contact the Global Electronics Recycling Network. This group maintains a network of electronic recycling organizations in many countries. Use its website to locate an electronics recycling organization near your home; you can find out the drop-off location and the cost of disposing of your vacuum tubes.


 

 As do fluorescent lamps, I wasn't speaking of recycling them as glass which is different.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Just send them to me, I'l make works of art out of them. thats way better than a landfill.


 

 Ah! Like ships in a bottle or something like that:


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I now find it almost impossible to fully enjoy a CD played back in even a very high end transport as compared to the disc being ripped and sent via Pure Music Memory Play into the same DAC.
> 
> It is still very different than really good analog but exists on it's own plane that in several areas can be quite superior.


 

 This is me, only the exact opposite.  I've struggled for years now over why a bit perfect ripped file on the PC doesn't sound the same as spinning the actual CD, because in my case the result always sounds worse.  This came up just recently again, after building my new PC.  The most bizarre part is that the sound card didn't change, I re-used it from the old system...... yet the sound quality is distinctly different than before with the exact same files, settings, and audio hardware.  The only thing that changed was going from an XP to a Win7 driver for that soundcard.  If the ones and zeros are the same ones on the disc, it should sound the same if no re-sampling is present (and there isn't since I am using ASIO), but it never does and I've never found a satisfying explanation why.  The PC playback always sounds more hard-edged and shouty, as though there is less dynamic headroom.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah! Like ships in a bottle or something like that:


 

 I WANT one!


----------



## grokit




----------



## Clayton SF

She got mad at me for spending too much money on frivolous vacuum tubes for my Woo Audio amps so I bought her a bouquet of flowers to bring peace and harmony to the household and to also beautify the living room and she got mad at me again. Go figure!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah! Like ships in a bottle or something like that:


 


  Yes this is what I'm talking about!  Things so beautiful they scream for a use in a second life.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> She got mad at me for spending too much money on frivolous vacuum tubes for my Woo Audio amps so I bought her a bouquet of flowers to bring peace and harmony to the household and to also beautify the living room and she got mad at me again. Go figure!


 

 It's a good thing delicate green tea is meant to be prepared; consumed warm and not hot - I spilled some onto my thigh after seeing this post!


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> Let me know what you think of the BDP-1 and DAC as I am evaluating a pair now and would love to compare notes.




Will do. I just wrapped up my WA2/WA22 comparisons (with my LCD-2, HD800s, T1s, and Ed. 8s). I am now moving on to comparing the DACs.



brucysn said:


> Let's us know how did it go!!!! You must be bummed as you would probably have to start your journey of hunting tubes once more.... The only down side i felt for W22 >.< Damn though 6SN7 are expensive and rare.... Try your luck on Ebay, I got my EML 5u4G for less than $150...




Good thing the WA2 and WA22 share the same power tubes. I've got 2 pairs of 7236s (Tung-Sol x2 and Sylvania x2) and 1 pair of Tung-Sol 5998s.  I find rectifier tubes have the least impact on SQ....first power, then driver and finally rectifier tubes. I do have a NOS Sylvania 5U4G and a pair of 6SN7s coming in next week. This week I did buy a pair of Electro-Harmonix Gold 6SN7s and a very good step up from the stock RCAs. I was always impressed with their 12AX7 tube and they have not disappointed. Of the new issue tubes, I am a big fan of EH and Gold Lions. They really hold their own next to some of the NOS tubes. I also picked up a 1950s winged "C" SED 5U4G. So far the new driver and rectifier tubes have yielded positive results over the stock tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> She got mad at me for spending too much money on frivolous vacuum tubes for my Woo Audio amps so I bought her a bouquet of flowers to bring peace and harmony to the household and to also beautify the living room and she got mad at me again. Go figure!


 


 ROTFL!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is me, only the exact opposite.  I've struggled for years now over why a bit perfect ripped file on the PC doesn't sound the same as spinning the actual CD, because in my case the result always sounds worse.  This came up just recently again, after building my new PC.  The most bizarre part is that the sound card didn't change, I re-used it from the old system...... yet the sound quality is distinctly different than before with the exact same files, settings, and audio hardware.  The only thing that changed was going from an XP to a Win7 driver for that soundcard.  If the ones and zeros are the same ones on the disc, it should sound the same if no re-sampling is present (and there isn't since I am using ASIO), but it never does and I've never found a satisfying explanation why.  The PC playback always sounds more hard-edged and shouty, as though there is less dynamic headroom.


 

 I had my doubts... then I took steps... one by one... and it mattered. Audio inside the computer environment is challenging to say the least. I'm not at all surprised the CD sounded different. "Ones and zeros" being the same only tells part of the story. Not all tweaks and adjustments cost money - you could extract so much more from your system. And those same bits _will _sound different.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Yes this is what I'm talking about!  Things so beautiful they scream for a use in a second life.


 
   
  It'd be cooler if they light up again in the dark.


----------



## shipsupt

grokit said:


> I suggest that you look at the HE-500, the other HiFiMAN cans aren't efficient enough for any of the Woo amps except the WA5/LE.




I'm quite pleased with the 5LE from the 6SE, they are actually not as hungry as the 6. That said, I'd have to agree that with the 500 available now it's probably a better choice to consider.


----------



## grokit

Agreed, I used to have an HE-5 and they were definitely borderline out of my WA22 with the 2-watt tubes; the HE-6 was more of a fail.


----------



## FlyingBear

Ah, a computer and information science point here: WAV does _not_ have more information than ALAC or FLAC. It occupies more bits, but that's because the density of the information is lower. If you ignore the additional information that an ALAC or FLAC has, purely because the definition of the container (file) for the data allows for tags, the information (music) content of a WAV, ALAC and FLAC is identical. The proof is that you can convert endlessly between all three formats, and the bits representing the music in each of the three formats won't change. No information is lost.
   
  You may ask yourself: how can the files always be smaller and still have the same information? The answer is that they can't. There is NO lossless compression method that can take any arbitrary input file and always create a smaller file. Lossy compression? Sure. Lossless? No way. It takes 5 minutes to prove this with simple math on a whiteboard. The 5-second version is that there are fewer possible files if they're smaller (there are 2 to the power n possible files of n binary bits size), so the decompressor wouldn't know which of the many larger files is the right one.
   
  FLAC and ALAC work because they're dealing with inherently inefficient data representation in WAV (or AIFF....same thing, different clothes). If you took a set of random bits and threw them at FLAC or ALAC, they'd fail, or "compress" the file to one that's larger than the original. Most compression algorithms are smart enough to declare defeat and just give you back the original file.
   
  An an aside, when I was a venture capitalist (halcyon days), I saw a number of companies promising lossless compression of all arbitrary files. One even claimed that you could use their technology to compress a 600MB CD to 60KB, then again to 6 bytes, and then reverse the process losslessly; THAT was an uncomfortable meeting. I turned them all down, because they were wrong, sadly misguided, nuts, or worse. Anyone with college-level information science can do the 5 minute proof mentioned above. And, no, this isn't like the people who "proved" that you can't fly faster than sound; the math on compression is much more solid than that: Claude Shannon, one of the fathers of information theory, was a very smart dude.
   
  Lossy compression has its place. The HD movie you watch on your TV is missing over 99% of the bits in the data stream. If you've worked in compression, you can see the compression artifacts (and hence working in compression spoils your enjoyment of TV forever), but it's amazing how good it looks. JPEG performs similar, although less severe, miracles on pictures. Most MP3s throw away 90% of the information, but still sound ok to many people.
   
  All the above assumes that the FLAC/ALAC software you're using isn't buggy and doesn't destroy your data. A few tests of compress/decompress and comparing against the original should convince you.
   
  Is that enough talk to talk you out of WAV and embrace the joys of tagged files, Mike? And, to repeat a prior post: if WAVs make you more comfortable, and sound better to you, go for it. I'm not snickering behind your back. There are enough unknown variables in how we perceive sound, both psychological and physiological, to make your perceptions real and something that I honor and respect. You can always tag the files with "sidecar" files (same name, different extension) or with music software that tracks all of this in a database, like J River. It's safer and easier to manage if the tags are in the files, but some software doesn't keep all of the tags in the files. For example, iTunes doesn't keep ratings or last played date in the files. You can torture it into doing so with scripts and using/abusing other tag fields, but it's not convenient. As always, no perfect answer, and lots of tradeoffs....
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You are a BAD man, Grokit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## FlyingBear

If you're using the analog outputs of your sound card, I'd expect it to sound different in a new PC: different electrical noise. A PC is a bad place to have analog stuff going on; it's really electrically noisy inside the Faraday cage that most PCs surround themselves with. If you're using the digital outputs, I would also expect drivers and overall PC hardware to have an effect, especially on timing. The bits are almost certainly the same, but they may be arriving on a different schedule. This isn't computeraudiophile (yet), but there's real electrical science here to explain the issues, versus, ahem, subspace manifold verteron particle interference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  A well-clocked and isolated USB DAC, perhaps of the asynchronous variety, should sound really damn good. It's largely a question then, I think, of the difference between your USB DAC and the DAC that lives inside or next to your CD transport. It's SO hard to do an A/B comparison. I've tried it with my W4S DAC-2, comparing the same CD played from a Theta David II (which can tolerably claim to deliver the right bit on the right schedule) through the coax PCM input and a ripped version playing from Pure Music through the USB input. There's no obvious difference to me, but there certainly might be to others. Even level matching accurately is a challenge, and we all know that louder often sounds better. Harmless fun to try all this out though, isn't it?


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is me, only the exact opposite.  I've struggled for years now over why a bit perfect ripped file on the PC doesn't sound the same as spinning the actual CD, because in my case the result always sounds worse.  This came up just recently again, after building my new PC.  The most bizarre part is that the sound card didn't change, I re-used it from the old system...... yet the sound quality is distinctly different than before with the exact same files, settings, and audio hardware.  The only thing that changed was going from an XP to a Win7 driver for that soundcard.  If the ones and zeros are the same ones on the disc, it should sound the same if no re-sampling is present (and there isn't since I am using ASIO), but it never does and I've never found a satisfying explanation why.  The PC playback always sounds more hard-edged and shouty, as though there is less dynamic headroom.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Just send them to me, I'l make works of art out of them. thats way better than a landfill.


 

 If you are serious, I have a whole box for you.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Ah, a computer and information science point here:
> *****
> As always, no perfect answer, and lots of tradeoffs....


 
  Thank you very much, FlyingBear. I have copied your posts, pasted it in Word, sent it to my work Samsung laser printer, printed it, and will read it and digest it during my lunch break. Yum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And you're right: It is harmless fun to try all this out, yes it is.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Ah, a computer and information science point here: WAV does _not_ have more information than ALAC or FLAC.


 
    
 Great post in it's entirety, I would just nit-pick this single point: "WAV does _not_ have more *audio* information than ALAC or FLAC."   
   
  Quote:


flyingbear said:


> subspace manifold verteron particle interference


 

 Can I have fries with that?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> If you are serious, I have a whole box for you.


 

 Yes I am. I'll Paypal the shipping cost to you.


----------



## FlyingBear

Life would hardly be worth living without a good nit-pick, but I have to nit-pick you back, so that, well, you can do the same 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  FLAC and ALAC can have more information than WAV, because the file format supports sections that contain all sorts of metadata/tags. But your nit-pick suggests that WAV may have more non-audio information than ALAC or FLAC (if I read you correctly) and I don't think that's correct. ALL of the information in a WAV exists in a FLAC or ALAC, because the compress-decompress cycle restores the WAV perfectly, with no bits changed. Or am I missing something? Either way, you can't beat a good nit-pick on a hot Lausanne night (for that is where I am tonight).
   
  Best regards....
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Great post in it's entirety, I would just nit-pick this single point: "WAV does _not_ have more *audio* information than ALAC or FLAC."


----------



## grokit

From how I understand it, the way that FLAC and ALAC cut the storage requirements in half from that of AIFF and WAV files without compressing the music is by getting rid of all of the non-audio information during the conversion process. AIFF and WAV let the computer read the audio data more efficiently, but FLAC and ALAC re-code that data to use much less storage space.


----------



## Icenine2

Storage really shouldn't even matter these days.  It's so cheap.  The only worry is when we switch over to more expensive SS drives.


----------



## FlyingBear

With respect (really!), not quite. FLAC is an audio-*aware* algorithm: the compression algorithm is designed and tuned to work well with audio data. It doesn't actually "know" that it's audio, but it tends to function effectively, with about 50% compression, on data that turns out to be audio. Audio data has certain characteristics that result from it being something that humans can actually hear; its patterns are limited, and somewhat predictable. FLAC runs even better on spoken word recordings than music. If you try to run the FLAC algorithm on, say, a PDF document, it won't work well on it. The actual FLAC algorithm is very subtle, very clever and surprisingly effective. Wikipedia has a good technical write-up, but the math and terminology require a fairly deep knowledge of compression algorithms.
   
  FLAC is also designed to be decoded quickly, and to allow streaming. There are compression algorithms that require the decompressor to see the whole file before being able to decode any of it, for example. With today's disk speeds and memory sizes, and CPU speeds, that's less of an issue, so a FLAC replacement could allow more compression.
   
  Compression is cool stuff (for a geek). Just ONE of the features that FLAC uses is run-length encoding. In its simplest form, instead of having 20,000 zero bytes in a silent passage, you can have a handful of bytes saying "the next 20,000 bytes should zero, Mr. Decompressor". Most compression algorithms use this, because it's a quick win that works on all data: JPEG and ZIP are two examples. FLAC uses other, much harder, techniques such as linear prediction and Golomb-Rice coding, for stuff that's harder than "20,000 zero bytes". Wonderful stuff.
   
  A WAV file is almost 100% pure audio data, and is in a format that is very little changed from the raw sample values of digital audio.
   
  Again, no disrespect intended. I know almost nothing about tubes and Woo amps, which is why I hope to learn from you and others, and why enjoy reading this thread so much. I can't wait to get home and unpack my new Woo amp in 8 days' time! I hope that I can return the favor of your knowledge with some of my own.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> From how I understand it, the way that FLAC and ALAC cut the storage requirements in half from that of AIFF and WAV files without compressing the music is by getting rid of all of the non-audio information during the conversion process. AIFF and WAV let the computer read the audio data more efficiently, but FLAC and ALAC re-code that data to use much less storage space.


----------



## grokit

Very interesting FlyingBear, thanks for clearing that up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Seriously, I guess the run-length encoding is what I was referring to as far as eliminating the non-audio data.
   
  It sounds like you might have hit on why FLAC may have some superiority over ALAC with the easy-to decode part, as Apple has that extra (unactivated but it's there) DRM data and all.
   
   
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Storage really shouldn't even matter these days.  It's so cheap.  The only worry is when we switch over to more expensive SS drives.


 

 Spinning platters rule! WD just came out with a new 3tb external My Book drive for $250.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Ah, a computer and information science point here: WAV does _not_ have more information than ALAC or FLAC. It occupies more bits, but that's because the density of the information is lower. If you ignore the additional information that an ALAC or FLAC has, purely because the definition of the container (file) for the data allows for tags, the information (music) content of a WAV, ALAC and FLAC is identical. The proof is that you can convert endlessly between all three formats, and the bits representing the music in each of the three formats won't change. No information is lost.
> 
> You may ask yourself: how can the files always be smaller and still have the same information? The answer is that they can't. There is NO lossless compression method that can take any arbitrary input file and always create a smaller file. Lossy compression? Sure. Lossless? No way. It takes 5 minutes to prove this with simple math on a whiteboard. The 5-second version is that there are fewer possible files if they're smaller (there are 2 to the power n possible files of n binary bits size), so the decompressor wouldn't know which of the many larger files is the right one.
> 
> ...


 


  You're right, this isn't Computer Audiophile yet. But contributions like this should be welcome. Sometimes, Woo Audio amp owners want just enough information to make their_ 'Woo' do what it do! _I'm all for sitting back, enjoying the music. But sometimes the enthusiasts inside us comes out. And we have a desire to understand the systems and music environment so our Woo can be better placed in it. And hopefully perform a a higher level.
   
  On a side note, with a moniker like "FlyingBear" did you pilot your way to an IOC meeting or flew commercial?


----------



## jerico

flyingbear said:


> Ah, a computer and information science point here: WAV does _not_ have more information than ALAC or FLAC. It occupies more bits, but that's because the density of the information is lower. If you ignore the additional information that an ALAC or FLAC has, purely because the definition of the container (file) for the data allows for tags, the information (music) content of a WAV, ALAC and FLAC is identical. The proof is that you can convert endlessly between all three formats, and the bits representing the music in each of the three formats won't change. No information is lost.
> 
> You may ask yourself: how can the files always be smaller and still have the same information? The answer is that they can't. There is NO lossless compression method that can take any arbitrary input file and always create a smaller file. Lossy compression? Sure. Lossless? No way. It takes 5 minutes to prove this with simple math on a whiteboard. The 5-second version is that there are fewer possible files if they're smaller (there are 2 to the power n possible files of n binary bits size), so the decompressor wouldn't know which of the many larger files is the right one.
> 
> ...




Outstanding post, Flying Bear! Thanks!


----------



## Icenine2

FWIW  I rip almost everything in wav.  Some FLAC


----------



## Icenine2

Whoa.  Check out the giveaway on Twitter posted here!!!  LCD's and an ALO amp.  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/561847/your-chance-to-win-a-set-of-lcd-2-s-and-the-alo-rx-amp-from-gizmodo


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> If you're using the analog outputs of your sound card, I'd expect it to sound different in a new PC: different electrical noise. A PC is a bad place to have analog stuff going on; it's really electrically noisy inside the Faraday cage that most PCs surround themselves with. If you're using the digital outputs, I would also expect drivers and overall PC hardware to have an effect, especially on timing. The bits are almost certainly the same, but they may be arriving on a different schedule. This isn't computeraudiophile (yet), but there's real electrical science here to explain the issues, versus, ahem, subspace manifold verteron particle interference
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I could understand if it were analog, in fact I would accept that very easily.  But to attribute things such as changes in tone to jitter and re-clock issues has always been a stretch for my imagination.  The system, as of present is:  J River Media Center 16 playing FLAC files > ASIO direct feed to sound card, no-resampling, no processing > optical digital output to CIA VDA-2 DAC > analog output to the WA6.  It is as direct as I can make it without a USB DAC implementation.  The reason I'm stymied at present is because the device sending signal to the DAC is the same one that was doing so before.  I literally yanked this soundcard out of the old computer and put it into this one, but I'm getting different sonic results now.  All other settings and modes are identical to what they were on the old PC.  I quadruple checked.  I mean....... the purpose of ASIO is direct communication with the hardware so I don't see how Windows7 could be affecting this vs. WinXP before, but this is the only thing that is really different.  It's just....... exasperating.  Between this and another issue I'm having (which I will withhold because it is not relevant to rant about in this topic), I'm finding little joy in music at the moment.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Ah, a computer and information science point here: WAV does _not_ have more information than ALAC or FLAC. It occupies more bits, but that's because the density of the information is lower. If you ignore the additional information that an ALAC or FLAC has, purely because the definition of the container (file) for the data allows for tags, the information (music) content of a WAV, ALAC and FLAC is identical. The proof is that you can convert endlessly between all three formats, and the bits representing the music in each of the three formats won't change. No information is lost.
> 
> You may ask yourself: how can the files always be smaller and still have the same information? The answer is that they can't. There is NO lossless compression method that can take any arbitrary input file and always create a smaller file. Lossy compression? Sure. Lossless? No way. It takes 5 minutes to prove this with simple math on a whiteboard. The 5-second version is that there are fewer possible files if they're smaller (there are 2 to the power n possible files of n binary bits size), so the decompressor wouldn't know which of the many larger files is the right one.
> 
> ...


 

 FlyingBear, I always appreciate your posts because you are so well thought out and it streaches my thinking.
   
  If there is no appreciable difference sonically between FLAC and WAV (which I believe), then the decision point moves on to something that will make a format compelling to use.
   
  I've been discussing media management in a different thread that specifically asks for sonic consequences to be eliminated from the discussion, and the thinking centered on tags and tag standards.  That is, no standard exists for tags written to WAV files, but there is one for FLAC.  The observation was that a lot of media server management software will allow filtering on standard and user defined tags and the benefit is meaningful sets of media data.
   
  So if the real difference is over tags, it's a different conversation and that is what I am thinking about now.  What benefits do tags have for me.  Right now, I'm a play-my-entire-media-library-randomly kind of a guy.  I'm using dBpoweramp to rip, and I know what it gives me, and so far, album art, the name of the album, the genre, the artist, track number and track and album sound level are all I need.
   
  What I have observed about FLAC is that the last music I bought is two versions back from the previous version being used by dBpoweramp.  From that version to the current version there are over 25 bug fixes, enhancements to existing features and new features.  If you go back even further, there are orders of magnitude of new features, bug fixes and enhancements.  And, as sure as God made little green apples, suceeding releases of FLAC will have features, bug fixes and enhancements that prior versions do not.
   
  At what point will old gear using legacy versions of FLAC stop playing the most recent release of FLAC?  Being burned by standards changing by new tides is not a new concept in the audio world.  I'm still trying to figure out what creative things I can do with my SACD only disks, and the list goes on.  What I like about WAV is that it's a standard used by music professionals and I doubt it's going to change very much.
   
  I have not made my decision yet which format to use and I am leaning towards WAV, because it is an uncompressed format and am open to FLAC if I can see what tagging can do for me.


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





circlark said:


> Hi everyone! (first post - nervous!) I'm about to buy some cans and an amp for the first time (other than the Grados I use with an iPod). I like the looks of the Hifiman phones (perhaps the HE-5 or 5LE is most in my price range). And I LOVE the looks of the WA6, which I could also afford. Could anyone comment on the combination of a WA6 & HE-5 or WA6 & HE-5LE? (I've also thought about AKG 701 / 702s or Beyerdynamic 990 600ohms)
> 
> A little about me... I listen to a wide range of music that does not include classical. Mostly I'm going to put on Indy Rock / well-produced Pop / singer-songwritery stuff. (my favorite artists are John Vanderslice in the US and Quruli in Japan) In my listening room I've got Harbeth C-7 speakers, but with a 5-month old baby girl about to start crawling around, stand-mounted speakers will be effectively banished for a couple of years. Hence the desire to listen to cans!
> 
> ...


 


 Welcome to Head-Fi. And sorry about your wallet, as they say.
   
  I'm afraid I can't be of any help here, as I'm still learning about this equipment. Have fun!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, I could understand if it were analog, in fact I would accept that very easily.  But to attribute things such as changes in tone to jitter and re-clock issues has always been a stretch for my imagination.  The system, as of present is:  J River Media Center 16 playing FLAC files > ASIO direct feed to sound card, no-resampling, no processing > optical digital output to CIA VDA-2 DAC > analog output to the WA6.  It is as direct as I can make it without a USB DAC implementation.  The reason I'm stymied at present is because the device sending signal to the DAC is the same one that was doing so before.  I literally yanked this soundcard out of the old computer and put it into this one, but I'm getting different sonic results now.  All other settings and modes are identical to what they were on the old PC.  I quadruple checked.  I mean....... the purpose of ASIO is direct communication with the hardware so I don't see how Windows7 could be affecting this vs. WinXP before, but this is the only thing that is really different.  It's just....... exasperating.  Between this and another issue I'm having (which I will withhold because it is not relevant to rant about in this topic), I'm finding little joy in music at the moment.


 
  X, couple of thoughts; one is that the digital spends some of its time as a signal, and so signal handling will make a difference as that is analog, and two, the actual programming of how those bits behave will change with different drivers.  Remember that digital audio is not the same as digital information going over the internet and your network.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Appreciate the input guys.  I've been starting to think that, long-term, my solution is going to be upgrading to a new DAC with USB input.  The Wyred4Sound units look very nice in particular, but this will have to be a very long ways down the road.  I bought the VDA-2 with the intention of it serving the needs of whatever amp comes along, figuring I had perched myself right at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to DACs in terms of price.  It's amazing how fast this stuff has been changing and improving.


----------



## Silent One

Computer environment ~
   
  There are goblins (_well, what else should I call 'em... it's Friday!_) residing inside a computer. And goblins airborne, just hovering and waiting to get dem hands on your output. Last summer, I performed the following exercise using my HP 17" notebook/Windows XP SP3; Mac mini with Boot Camp & same Windows config; EMU 0404 USB Interface w/ASIO driver; WireWorld Ultraviolet USB cable; iTunes.
   
  Playing the same test tracks in 32-bit mode; ASIO out in the three configurations brought three different results. A computer's processes and its environment can and sometimes will change the sound. The files on the Mac with Boot Camp were closer but different. On the notebook the difference was prominent. Hope this helps scenario helps!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Appreciate the input guys.  I've been starting to think that, long-term, my solution is going to be upgrading to a new DAC with USB input.  The Wyred4Sound units look very nice in particular, but this will have to be a very long ways down the road.  I bought the VDA-2 with the intention of it serving the needs of whatever amp comes along, figuring I had perched myself right at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to DACs in terms of price.  It's amazing how fast this stuff has been changing and improving.


 

 You're most welcome. And that Wyred4Sound DAC? _It may come faster than you think at a price you can afford!_ I'll be looking to go from DAC-1 to DAC-2 soon.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Funny you should mention the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2....just picked one up today (should be here by Monday according to Canada Post). The only reason I picked it up was to feed my WA22 a balanced source; otherwise I was exceedingly happy with my Cary XCiter DAC (both cost the exact same). This place is truly sinister. :evil:


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're most welcome. And that Wyred4Sound DAC? _It may come faster than you think at a price you can afford!_ I'll be looking to go from DAC-1 to DAC-2 soon.


 


  Heh, well soon in this case is probably not in either this or next calendar year.  WA22 will come first, and the way things have been lately it may not come at all.  I at least managed to break my addiction to buying vacuum tubes, so money is no longer bleeding through that spending avenue.
   
  As for the PC, I honestly can't even tell how many hours I've spent comparing various combinations of settings and methods now.  The one thing I have managed to confirm for myself is this:  anything hardware direct or kernel streaming sounds the same to my ears.  There are folks who say ASIO, WASAPI, WASAPI-ES, and Kernel Streaming all sound different.  Even those who think changing the buffering delay can affect the sonics.  My ears found all those modes to be identical.  Wave Out and Direct Sound, on the other hand, are radically different sounding and mostly in a bad way.  The thing I find most curious out of everything on the subject, I think, is the fact that so far as tonality goes Wave Out sounds absolutely identical to the output of my standalone CD transport.  The only actual difference is a big reduction in clarity.  If it didn't sound so soft I would use this option because otherwise it sounds right to me.  Why all the hardware direct modes alter the tone of the music is what baffles me so much.  In the most recent go around with this new PC the effect really gives the impression that something like volume leveling or replay gain is taking place.  The dynamic range feels compressed.  I went and checked all of my EAC rip settings to make sure I wasn't accidentally normalizing my files just in case the first time I heard it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny you should mention the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2....just picked one up today (should be here by Monday according to Canada Post). The only reason I picked it up was to feed my WA22 a balanced source; otherwise I was exceedingly happy with my Cary XCiter DAC (both cost the exact same). This place is truly sinister.


 
  Your gonna love the DAC-2.  Burn it in for a long time. I got the W4S balanced cables for it but I'm real interested in trying other balanced cables with it.  You using it with a Mac or windoz?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Very interesting FlyingBear, thanks for clearing that up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 the bigger drives frighten me.


----------



## MacedonianHero

warriorant said:


> Your gonna love the DAC-2.  Burn it in for a long time. I got the W4S balanced cables for it but I'm real interested in trying other balanced cables with it.  You using it with a Mac or windoz?




Windows 7 (64bit)....I picked up a pair of Kimber Hero XLRs....I was a big fan of the RCA WBT Heros (I owned a few pairs over the years), so the balanced version was a natural fit for me. If it's as good as the Cary, but with balanced outs (to better work with my WA22), then I'll be a very happy camper.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Windows 7 (64bit)....I picked up a pair of Kimber Hero XLRs....I was a big fan of the RCA WBT Heros (I owned a few pairs over the years), so the balanced version was a natural fit for me. If it's as good as the Cary, but with balanced outs (to better work with my WA22), then I'll be a very happy camper.


 
    For me it's what a front end digital source should be.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Your gonna love the DAC-2.  Burn it in for a long time. I got the W4S balanced cables for it but I'm real interested in trying other balanced cables with it.  You using it with a Mac or windoz?


 

 How many hours on your DAC-2 to-date? Reached minimum burn-in Wednesday night. Now entering the extended phase awaiting more refinement with 253 hours and counting...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How many hours on your DAC-2 to-date? Reached minimum burn-in Wednesday night. Now entering the extended phase awaiting more refinement with 253 hours and counting...


 
  I started burning it in on May 8th and it pretty much goes 18 hours a day since then.  I used it also to burn in my V200 which I installed on June 8th.  So its been plenty burned in.  Now I'm burning in a new pair of LCD that arrived today.  I'll burn them in whether they need it or not just because I can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I'm all solid state though so it is easier to burn in 24/7.  I'm looking in the future for a Woo but I get a lot of nay sayers pulling on my coat.  That's one reason I hang in here, trying to get the vibe on the impulse to pull the trigger or to at least sell off some of my vintage hand forged Japanese Bonsai tools to fund the purchase.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I started burning it in on May 8th and it pretty much goes 18 hours a day since then.  I used it also to burn in my V200 which I installed on June 8th.  So its been plenty burned in.  Now I'm burning in a new pair of LCD that arrived today.  I'll burn them in whether they need it or not just because I can
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did your W4S start gettin' really good 'round 300-400 hours?


----------



## WarriorAnt

0-100 big big changes   100-150 decreasingly smaller changes 200+ moving into the infinitesimal.
   
  We haven't heard from Mike.  I'm thinking he doesn't like the DAC-2 but doesn't want to say anything...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> 0-100 big big changes   100-150 decreasingly smaller changes 200+ moving into the infinitesimal.
> 
> We haven't heard from Mike.  I'm thinking he doesn't like the DAC-2 but doesn't want to say anything...


 

 If we're to speculate at this hour, got tea? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think he's fine. Certainly has his hands full - with audio gear, notes on the audio gear and in a few hours, an espresso. So he may contemplate the gear and the notes he's holding in review in the first place. _I'd like to be in that position..._
   

 I remember Clint advising me last month on minimum burn-in 200 hours. But that between 200-400 hours things will really start to sing. While I am optimistic, I am also a bit concerned. The presentation is starting to bloom quite nicely. But I noticed I ended up surrendering (against my will!) a bit of bass and slam, though I did gain beautiful mid-range magic. I'm hoping I'll see a slight change in the overall signature.


----------



## Icenine2

Mac,
   
  You are going to love the W4S.  When mine hit 100 hours there was a big difference and when it hit 200 the clouds opened.  W/the WA22 it's incredible.  A great match.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny you should mention the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2....just picked one up today (should be here by Monday according to Canada Post). The only reason I picked it up was to feed my WA22 a balanced source; otherwise I was exceedingly happy with my Cary XCiter DAC (both cost the exact same). This place is truly sinister.


----------



## Silent One

Extended session ~
   
  Now entering hour eight of my listening session to celebrate my Woo's one year anniversary. I've been feeding the amp some 200 tracks of Karen Mok through Fixed-Integer mode playback... _sounding good, baby!_


----------



## jerico

For you Mac guys - I just downloaded the latest version of AirFoil. This version allows audio to be sent FROM an iOS device TO a computer. This caught my interest, because I have a headless Mac Mini at the heart of my headphone setup - but this program would allow me to, say, watch Netflix video on my iPad while routing its audio through the Mac Mini and on into my DAC and my cans. Sure, it won't be greatest audio quality, but kinda cool to be able to do it! I'll report back once I get it all running...!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> 0-100 big big changes   100-150 decreasingly smaller changes 200+ moving into the infinitesimal.
> 
> We haven't heard from Mike.  I'm thinking he doesn't like the DAC-2 but doesn't want to say anything...


 

     Quote:


silent one said:


> If we're to speculate at this hour, got tea?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey guys, thanks for thinking of me.  I continue to burn in the DAC-2 and Bryston BDA-1.  Am at 190 hours, give or take, and was going to wait until after I hit 200 hours on both DAC's before I said anything.
  
  Am also working through ideas and thoughts on the format for my media library.
   
  And, of course reading the latest news and experiences as we unfold the pages of mystery and delight with our Woo's!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If we're to speculate at this hour, got tea?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I can't really address the DAC-1 as the DAC-2 has a more hefty analog output and the super caps which is the main reason I choose it over the DAC-1.  I find the bass to be deep and strong in combo with the V200 and even more so now with the latest LCD-2 which in some ways is a bit of a different beast than the earlier LCD.     But  I cant really say anything past that combo because that's all I know.  Bass definition for me is very refined but I'm in another type of universe.  The DAC-2 has a high output and I use the gain switch functions on the V200 to lower the V200's output so I can use the volume control around 12 or 1 o'clock and make better use of the range of the pot otherwise the DAC-2 would have me running  around 9 O'Clock.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Mac,
> 
> You are going to love the W4S.  When mine hit 100 hours there was a big difference and when it hit 200 the clouds opened.  W/the WA22 it's incredible.  A great match.


 


  I can't really comment past 200 because I tossed in the V200 at that point and then a replacement LCD for 7 weeks and now another LCD.  The DAC-2 balance out/balanced in>V200>LCD-2r.2 combo sounds great.  I am yearning to try a tube amp.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I can't really comment past 200 because I tossed in the V200 at that point and then a replacement LCD for 7 weeks and now another LCD.  The DAC-2 balance out/balanced in>V200>LCD-2r.2 combo sounds great.  I am yearning to try a tube amp.


 

 Another future WA22 owner perhaps...


----------



## Arcamera

Does anyone here have experience with the WA2 and the LCD2's? How about the WA2 and the Denon AH-D7000's?


----------



## FlyingBear

No IOC meetings for me. I work for a Swiss company. But, indeed, the moniker extends from when I used to fly myself around, and run an aircraft charter business on the side (which turned out to be a distressingly hard activity to make money on). I sometimes miss the smell of Jet-A, and pushing the power levers forward 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. So I fly to Switzerland commercially, or in the back of our company jet. The latter is more comfortable, but the former is more cost effective....
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> On a side note, with a moniker like "FlyingBear" did you pilot your way to an IOC meeting or flew commercial?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> Does anyone here have experience with the WA2 and the LCD2's? How about the WA2 and the Denon AH-D7000's?


 

 I tried the LCD-2's with my WA22, and in my environment I did not care for them.  There are people here who really like the sound of them, and feel the WA22 drives them well, but they were not for me. 
   
  I have a pair of HD800's and I like the HD800's spacious soundstage and ability to render a lot of detail both high and low.


----------



## FlyingBear

Oh, I'm very sorry to hear that. Audiophiles are almost by definition perfectionists, so I can see how unexplained differences would be exasperating. Just like the quiet tinkling noise in a new car where you can't find the source, or the almost imperceptible speck of dust on a DSLR sensor. Been there, didn't like it.
   
  Per your other post, I can understand why Wave Out sounds different and worse: you're probably using the analog circuits in the sound card in the signal chain, and they're likely to be not very good, and inside a bad environment driven by really grubby power. I can also understand why the various "direct digital" outputs sound the same. I'm _guessing _that the difference you're seeing below comes from different "direct" (or really not so direct) routing of the digital signal between XP and Win7. Win7 gets a lot of things right, including in the audio area; XP not so much. You're right that ASIO _should _be bypassing everything, but it may not. Also, the XP and Win7 drivers may be setting up the direct signal path differently.
   
  Also, it's not impossible that the power in your new, or old PC is causing issues with the digital signal. It shouldn't, but it might. I'm not talking a few picoseconds of jitter, but gross timing and spiking issues.
   
  My bet is the driver. And that the Win7 driver is likely the source of the more accurate sound. But I'm guessing, so it doesn't help you much, sorry.
   
  This is also worrying, because I'm relying 100% on the signal chain in my profile below. I have an old Theta David II CD transport, also feeding my W4S DAC-2, but haven't yet had the chance to listen on a "real" amplifier, as my WES is in its crate waiting for my return. It's being patient, I'm sure, but I'm not! I'm hoping very deeply that the CD->DAC-2 sounds the same as the same CD lovingly ripped and played through Pure Music (or J River, I have both). I'll report back once I've had a chance to get accustomed to the W4S and the WES, and them to me. If I can hear a difference between the three playback routes, then I'll join you in exasperation.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yeah, I could understand if it were analog, in fact I would accept that very easily.  But to attribute things such as changes in tone to jitter and re-clock issues has always been a stretch for my imagination.  The system, as of present is:  J River Media Center 16 playing FLAC files > ASIO direct feed to sound card, no-resampling, no processing > optical digital output to CIA VDA-2 DAC > analog output to the WA6.  It is as direct as I can make it without a USB DAC implementation.  The reason I'm stymied at present is because the device sending signal to the DAC is the same one that was doing so before.  I literally yanked this soundcard out of the old computer and put it into this one, but I'm getting different sonic results now.  All other settings and modes are identical to what they were on the old PC.  I quadruple checked.  I mean....... the purpose of ASIO is direct communication with the hardware so I don't see how Windows7 could be affecting this vs. WinXP before, but this is the only thing that is really different.  It's just....... exasperating.  Between this and another issue I'm having (which I will withhold because it is not relevant to rant about in this topic), I'm finding little joy in music at the moment.


----------



## Skylab

arcamera said:


> Does anyone here have experience with the WA2 and the LCD2's? How about the WA2 and the Denon AH-D7000's?



I actually liked the WA2 quite a bit with the LCD-2. Oddly, I think that was a better match in the end than the WA22 is, in my experience. YMMV of course.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I actually liked the WA2 quite a bit with the LCD-2. Oddly, I think that was a better match in the end than the WA22 is, in my experience. YMMV of course.


 

 I'm itching for a Woo for the LCD's.  It's between the 6SE and the WA2, but now I have to wait for you tube gurus to evaluate the LCD-2 r.2 with an amp because it's a bit of a different game now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I can't really address the DAC-1 as the DAC-2 has a more hefty analog output and the super caps which is the main reason I choose it over the DAC-1.  I find the bass to be deep and strong in combo with the V200 and even more so now with the latest LCD-2 which in some ways is a bit of a different beast than the earlier LCD.     But  I cant really say anything past that combo because that's all I know.  Bass definition for me is very refined but I'm in another type of universe.  The DAC-2 has a high output and I use the gain switch functions on the V200 to lower the V200's output so I can use the volume control around 12 or 1 o'clock and make better use of the range of the pot otherwise the DAC-2 would have me running  around 9 O'Clock.


 


  I was correct in my assessment about mikemalter's state of affairs, but you never came through with that tea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm not sure I would agree with your view that the DAC-2 has a heftier analog output. We're not talking about the DAC-2's increased options, rather the signal; the units only divided by Super caps. Had my wallet out (though it was empty) and Clint compared and contrasted these things with me. _Now, he could be wrong... _and that'd be ok.
   
  Later this week I'll have the Violetric V800 DAC and see which DAC my Woo & D7000 combo likes better. Also, my SX-650 just got delivered three minutes ago.. playtime!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm itching for a Woo for the LCD's.  It's between the 6SE and the WA2, but now I have to wait for you tube gurus to evaluate the LCD-2 r.2 with an amp because it's a bit of a different game now.


 

 Of the two Woos, my preference with LCD-2s is the 6SE. It really brings out the best in the LCD-2s, both on the top end and the bottom end.
   
  Oddly, though, I'm keeping the WA2 and prepping to sell the 6SE, since the WA2 sounds better with my T1s and about equal with my HE-500s.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> No IOC meetings for me. I work for a Swiss company. But, indeed, the moniker extends from when I used to fly myself around, and run an aircraft charter business on the side (which turned out to be a distressingly hard activity to make money on). I sometimes miss the smell of Jet-A, and pushing the power levers forward
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  (_Silent One quietly fills with envy... decides to reply anyway_)  
   
  I'm twice the brat (USAF; FAA) and love aviation; jets. And you're correct, Win 7 has superior drivers...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Of the two Woos, my preference with LCD-2s is the 6SE. It really brings out the best in the LCD-2s, both on the top end and the bottom end.
> 
> Oddly, though, I'm keeping the WA2 and prepping to sell the 6SE, since the WA2 sounds better with my T1s and about equal with my HE-500s.


 


  The array of tea tins are barren at this time. Otherwise, I'd buy that 6SE so quick you'd still be in the middle of prepping it! I remain very interested and curious about mono blocking a pair of 6SE's. Can't seem to find anyone in the forum or the Net who bothered doing so._ I want that pre-paid experience from others..._


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I was correct in my assessment about mikemalter's state of affairs, but you never came through with that tea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Really interesting, the v800 balanced outs and volume control.  Have you heard how long you have to break it in?  Are you going to replace your DAC-1 with it?
   
  Hope you have fun with the SX-650.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I was correct in my assessment about mikemalter's state of affairs, but you never came through with that tea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Never underestimate the effect of caps on bass performance.
   
  Where are  you getting a V800?  A loaner?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Really interesting, the v800 balanced outs and volume control.  Have you heard how long you have to break it in?  Are you going to replace your DAC-1 with it?
> 
> Hope you have fun with the SX-650.


 

 While burn-in is important, I need not achieve full burn-in for some indicators. Also, you may remember from prior posts that I believe cables and components need time at rest is equally important as the hours clocked. Take muscles for example, when taxing the muscle by weight-lifting or like exercises, the most important stage doesn't come from the breaking down of the muscle itself. Though each stage contributes, it is the rest period that takes place afterwards that's key.
   
  My self created philosophy is geared toward 21 days minimum for burn-in and must include adequate rest during that time.This is why I don't use my solid-state gear to maximize hours in a hurry. I'll likely do 3 on/ 3 off; or 5 to 8 hours on and then time off. But that's my story. (see profile for financial interests.... kidding!)
   
  But if I see/hear enough with the V800, then I'll take the steps to keep it in-house and liquidate something. I really need to get a Yob so I can stop dispensing with the cheap tea!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> My bet is the driver. And that the Win7 driver is likely the source of the more accurate sound. But I'm guessing, so it doesn't help you much, sorry.


 

 My feeling is also that it is the driver.  It is more accurate, but at the same time I wouldn't say it is better unfortunately.  As with all things I suppose I'll grow accustomed to the change.


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I tried the LCD-2's with my WA22, and in my environment I did not care for them.  There are people here who really like the sound of them, and feel the WA22 drives them well, but they were not for me.
> 
> I have a pair of HD800's and I like the HD800's spacious soundstage and ability to render a lot of detail both high and low.


 


   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I actually liked the WA2 quite a bit with the LCD-2. Oddly, I think that was a better match in the end than the WA22 is, in my experience. YMMV of course.


 

  
  Thanks for the input.


----------



## grokit

I like my LCD-2 out of my WA22 more than any other amp I've ever tried with them or any other headphone system for that matter. Tube selection makes a huge difference though, it took me a while to get here.


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I like my LCD-2 out of my WA22 more than any other amp I've ever tried with them or any other headphone system for that matter. Tube selection makes a huge difference though, it took me a while to get here.


 


 This is good to hear since I just bought an LCD-2 to used with my WA22. About the tubes, I'm using Syl 7236 power, a Sophia Princess 274B rectifier and the stock 6ns7 drivers. What is your tube selection?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Never underestimate the effect of caps on bass performance.
> 
> Where are  you getting a V800?  A loaner?


 


  For the sake of clarity, I'm neither under or over estimating this performance gap between the two units. What I am doing is basing the differences (how w-i-d-e) from Wyred4Sound themselves, the MFG of the two units in question. It's not a question of the caps themselves, _they are superior_. But a measure of how much?
   
  Your system and mine may or may not share tales of the tape. Due to all of the other components upstream/downstream in one's system and the environment it operates, like running water it's varies. Perhaps, you can now see why I say I _"_May" not agree with you...
   
  Not loaning...um, borrowing but rather buying with the option if _"This ain't it" it's goin' back!_
   
  I buy majority of my goodies from Aphrodite Cu29. I'd like to get employed so I can buy more from Woo Audio (he grins broadly).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My feeling is also that it is the driver.  It is more accurate, but at the same time I wouldn't say it is better unfortunately.  As with all things I suppose I'll grow accustomed to the change.


 

 We're all cheering for you to make that eventual emotional connection...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For the sake of clarity, I'm neither under or over estimating this performance gap between the two units. What I am doing is basing the differences (how w-i-d-e) from Wyred4Sound themselves, the MFG of the two units in question. It's not a question of the caps themselves, _they are superior_. But a measure of how much?
> 
> Your system and mine may or may not share tales of the tape. Due to all of the other components upstream/downstream in one's system and the environment it operates, like running water it's varies. Perhaps, you can now see why I say I _"_May" not agree with you...
> 
> ...


 

 SilentOne, I am a big believer in sending stuff back if it does not work.  I never used to do that, but now I do and the vendors know up front so there are no surprises.  I think headphone listening is very different from speakers in that I think you hear more with headphones and it something is not right, it _*hurts!*_


----------



## mikemalter

Calling all WA22 / Wyred For Sound DAC-2 owners.
   
  What volume level have your set your DAC at?
   
  Thanks.
   
  Mike


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> This is good to hear since I just bought an LCD-2 to used with my WA22. About the tubes, I'm using Syl 7236 power, a Sophia Princess 274B rectifier and the stock 6ns7 drivers. What is your tube selection?


 

 I'm very happy with TS5998, BGRP, and EML 274B


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm very happy with TS5998, BGRP, and EML 274B


 

 Really, you prefer the TS5998 over the GEC 6AS7G?  Is that in general or just with the LCD-2's?  When you listen to the HD800's what do you like?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SilentOne, I am a big believer in sending stuff back if it does not work.  I never used to do that, but now I do and the vendors know up front so there are no surprises.  I think headphone listening is very different from speakers in that I think you hear more with headphones and it something is not right, it _*hurts!*_


 
   
  x2!
   
  I know what you're sayin'. Before the commercial internet I could find anything audio to demo in either LA or NY at any time. With fewer Brick-n-Mortars, there's a stronger need to rely on fellow audiophiles, meets and/or try before you buy opportunties. Every piece of gear in the listening room based around my Woo was bought without being auditioned.
   
_And now that I'm 'Yobless', the misses can really hurt!!!_


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> This is good to hear since I just bought an LCD-2 to used with my WA22. About the tubes, I'm using Syl 7236 power, a Sophia Princess 274B rectifier and the stock 6ns7 drivers. What is your tube selection?


 
   
  I'm going with the same power and rectifier tubes as you are, and for drivers I am using the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT that Woo sells to complete their currently-recommended upgrade package. This tube combo really brought the LCD-2s into focus for me and I have lost my desire for tube rolling/experimentation. I have some killer tubes like TSRPBGs, an EML 5U4G, a couple of pairs of TS598s and a bunch of others but they have fallen by the wayside now. I just got a backup pair of Syl 7236 tubes from Woo because they are NOS but am comforted by the fact that the Princess and Treasures are of new manufacture.
   
  I am also really looking forward to being re-united with the HD800, a late model this time to see if is really the "Ultimate Headphone System" with these tubes in my WA22. I was hoping that it would arrive today but it's on it's way. When I had both headphones before with the WA22 I was having some issues with optimizing the tubes for both headphones which is what led me to pass my first HD800 on to another Head-fier. That review is where I got the idea to try those tubes together, and it was about the HD800 so I am confident that I will have the best of both worlds this time (knocks on wood).
   
  I already had these tubes from the previous WA22 owner but I had not tried them together. I had tried the Treasures before but with 5998 power tubes and didn't like them that much and the previous owner warned about the Princess buzzing so I hadn't tried it either. But from the first time I heard it with the LCD-2 with these tubes I was hooked. I'm completely satisfied for the first time now with the LCD-2/WA22, the only thing left that I would like to try now tube-wise would be to compare an EML 274b to the Princess in this combo. The Princess does not buzz for me though so I am in no hurry to try the EML; I will probably get rid of a few other tubes first.
   
  I may be the only one on Head-fi with this combo in my WA22 so it would be great to have some company; I highly recommend it along with Woo Audio's Jack Wu and Positive Feedback's Andy Shaub.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm going with the same power and rectifier tubes as you are, and for drivers I am using the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z / 6SN7GT that Woo sells to complete their currently-recommended upgrade package. This tube combo really brought the LCD-2s into focus for me and I have lost my desire for tube rolling/experimentation. I have some killer tubes like TSRPBGs, an EML 5U4G, a couple of pairs of TS598s and a bunch of others but they have fallen by the wayside now. I just got a backup pair of Syl 7236 tubes from Woo because they are NOS but am comforted by the fact that the Princess and Treasures are of new manufacture.
> 
> I am also really looking forward to being re-united with the HD800, a late model this time to see if is really the "Ultimate Headphone System" with these tubes in my WA22. I was hoping that it would arrive today but it's on it's way.
> 
> ...


 


 Grokit,
   
  Are you planning on using the stock cable with your new HD800's or are you getting an upgrade?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> Are you planning on using the stock cable with your new HD800's or are you getting an upgrade?


 

 My original post has been edited since you quoted it...
   
  I still have my Double Helix Molecule balanced cable from when I had the HD800 before. I was still tempted to grab the TWag V2 that this HD800 owner was selling optionally, but it was more than enough of a stretch for me to grab the HD800 at this point in time. It has a 5-digit serial number, and is reportedly in mint condition though so I didn't want to pass it up. I am really enjoying my LCD-2s now more than ever but they could use some high-end company hanging out with the WA22 and I have been missing the 800s. So the difference this time will be the supposed tuning tweak or driver change or whatever Sennheiser was rumored to have done to the later model 800s, and of course the tubes.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> Really, you prefer the TS5998 over the GEC 6AS7G?  Is that in general or just with the LCD-2's?  When you listen to the HD800's what do you like?




Only with LCD-2, I prefer GEC 6AS7G or 6080 with the rest of my headphones. I tend to use the 6080 more since I have two pair. Can't find a back up on the 6AS7G yet.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Calling all WA22 / Wyred For Sound DAC-2 owners.
> 
> What volume level have your set your DAC at?
> 
> ...


 

 Mike are you speaking about what level to use the DAC-2's variable level out at?   If so I wouldn't use the DAC-2 in any variable mode for serious use. I would use the DAC-2's output at full.  I think there may be a  compromise in sound with a digital preamp if you don't use it near full volume.    I know Lavry is a direct competitor to W4S but he has written some interesting stuff about the differences between a DAC unit with an analog pre out and a digital pre out.   I'm not using a W22 but I use the DAC-2's line level out unless I'm using it in my home theater system at night with headphones connected out the back of the unit. Then I use the variable volume because I'm less concerned about the fidelity


----------



## jerico

Mike -

I'm running my DAC2 at fixed (full) output into my 22.


----------



## BrucYSN

Variable out? You mean the Volume? and. there was a headphone out at back of the DAC? I surely missed that


----------



## MacedonianHero

warriorant said:


> For me it's what a front end digital source should be.




You and Jack from Woo Audio.  Which is why I did a lateral from my Cary Xciter to the DAC-2.



icenine2 said:


> Mac,
> 
> You are going to love the W4S.  When mine hit 100 hours there was a big difference and when it hit 200 the clouds opened.  W/the WA22 it's incredible.  A great match.




Can't wait....ETA was Monday, but due to the delays from the now defunct Canada Post strike, it's looking like Tuesday now. I've got my balanced Kimber Kable Heros right next to me just adding to the anticipation.


----------



## MacedonianHero

arcamera said:


> Does anyone here have experience with the WA2 and the LCD2's? How about the WA2 and the Denon AH-D7000's?






skylab said:


> I actually liked the WA2 quite a bit with the LCD-2. Oddly, I think that was a better match in the end than the WA22 is, in my experience. YMMV of course.






olias of sunhillow said:


> Of the two Woos, my preference with LCD-2s is the 6SE. It really brings out the best in the LCD-2s, both on the top end and the bottom end.
> 
> Oddly, though, I'm keeping the WA2 and prepping to sell the 6SE, since the WA2 sounds better with my T1s and about equal with my HE-500s.




I agree with Rob partially that the WA2/LCD-2 are a great combination, but I prefer the WA22 by a small margin (not much mind you). I plan to finish my comparative review (brief as this summer has turned out to be very busy at work and home) between the WA2 and WA22 (with the HD800s, T1s, and the LCD-2s). But I did not think it was an ideal amp with the D7000s and Ed. 8s. It sounded good, but I felt like I was leaving cards on the table so to speak. 

As Olias mentioned, I would think that for the LCD-2s, the WA6SE is the better choice between the two amps (WA6SE and WA2).


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> Mike -
> 
> I'm running my DAC2 at fixed (full) output into my 22.




With zero noise floor?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My original post has been edited since you quoted it...
> 
> I still have my Double Helix Molecule balanced cable from when I had the HD800 before. I was still tempted to grab the TWag V2 that this HD800 owner was selling optionally, but it was more than enough of a stretch for me to grab the HD800 at this point in time. It has a 5-digit serial number, and is reportedly in mint condition though so I didn't want to pass it up. I am really enjoying my LCD-2s now more than ever but they could use some high-end company hanging out with the WA22 and I have been missing the 800s. So the difference this time will be the supposed tuning tweak or driver change or whatever Sennheiser was rumored to have done to the later model 800s, and of course the tubes.


 


 Are you saying that more recent HD800's are different than one's say a year ago?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Only with LCD-2, I prefer GEC 6AS7G or 6080 with the rest of my headphones. I tend to use the 6080 more since I have two pair. Can't find a back up on the 6AS7G yet.


 

 I have been looking for months.  I actually have a backup pair, but they are not an exact match.  They are a combination of one tube each from two bad orders that I bought from people who got bad batches.  I wonder why there are none on sale anwhere, you'd figure that one or two pairs will pop up, but not with these tubes.
   
  For 6080's I don't like the GEC, but do like the RCA.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Are you saying that more recent HD800's are different than one's say a year ago?


 

 That is the conjecture, yes. There are some who swear that it's true and a few who scoff. Also the LCD-2 has definitely made a change to its drivers since you tried them out. The LCD-2 has improved the treble, where the HD800 has toned the treble down. At least Audeze is up front about the change of driver material. Sennheiser leaves us wondering if it's an actual change in the driver or just different tuning.
   
  My first HD800 was # 1,4xx, the new one is 10,xxx which is exactly what I was looking for. I should have them early next week and shall see how my aural memory interprets the difference.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Only with LCD-2, I prefer GEC 6AS7G or 6080 with the rest of my headphones. I tend to use the 6080 more since I have two pair. Can't find a back up on the 6AS7G yet.


 


  What was other power tubes that you use?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> With zero noise floor?


 


 Interesting question.  How can one know this?
   
  I just switched from variable to fixed for AES/EBU.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That is the conjecture, yes. There are some who swear that it's true and a few who scoff. Also the LCD-2 has definitely made a change to its drivers since you tried them out. The LCD-2 has improved the treble, where the HD800 has toned the treble down. At least Audeze is up front about the change of driver material. Sennheiser leaves us wondering if it's an actual change in the driver or just different tuning.


 

 When was that? 
  EDIT: NVM Mine is the new one!
  EDIT again: I miss-readed the Jun as Jan.....


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That is the conjecture, yes. There are some who swear that it's true and a few who scoff. Also the LCD-2 has definitely made a change to its drivers since you tried them out. The LCD-2 has improved the treble, where the HD800 has toned the treble down. At least Audeze is up front about the change of driver material. Sennheiser leaves us wondering if it's an actual change in the driver or just different tuning.


 

 One of the things I really liked about Audez is that they are transparent with what they are doing.  I would say that if they bumped up the treble, that would be a very good thing for them from my perspective.  They did comparatively well to the HD800 in bass and midrange, they were just not as revealing as the HD800.  If the HD800 dampened their treble just a touch and it was audible, it would be worth it for me to get a new pair.  The phones are like trying to control a highly spirited arabian stallion it seems at times.  But they are so revealing that they are compelling and are worth the trouble.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> Interesting question.  How can one know this?
> 
> I just switched from variable to fixed for AES/EBU.




When your headphones are plugged in and the WA22 is on, pause the music...do you hear any slight hum?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> When was that?


 

 Te first time I had read about it was when an HD800 afficianato that had three pairs (wish I could remember who, he had some killer amps also) posted that his most recent pair was quite different sounding, with greater bass impact and toned down treble. Since then others have chimed in, from what I remember they need to be past # 7,500 or so but I can't say for sure.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> One of the things I really liked about Audez is that they are transparent with what they are doing.  I would say that if they bumped up the treble, that would be a very good thing for them from my perspective.  They did comparatively well to the HD800 in bass and midrange, they were just not as revealing as the HD800.  If the HD800 dampened their treble just a touch and it was audible, it would be worth it for me to get a new pair.  The phones are like trying to control a highly spirited arabian stallion it seems at times.  But they are so revealing that they are compelling and are worth the trouble.


 
   
  There's easily been 500 posts in the main LCD-2 thread over the last few days since they announced the change, and a few impressions have trickled in. Evidently it's a thinner, quicker membrane that offers greater bass extension, the bass is tightened up a bit as well. Also the treble is more extended and resolving without becoming more forward so the overall tonal balance is unchanged. Warrior Ant is currently sorting out his thoughts on the new drivers and should be reporting in detail soon, and there is some detail on the Audeze website and Facebook page as well.


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> Interesting question.  How can one know this?
> 
> I just switched from variable to fixed for AES/EBU.




It sounds fine to me (if that's what Hero meant) - no excess noise to make me think to set it to variable. I have no need of volume control at the DAC...


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> It sounds fine to me (if that's what Hero meant) - no excess noise to make me think to set it to variable. I have no need of volume control at the DAC...




Great thanks.  It'll help with my setup next week when my DAC2 arrives.

BTW, only my wife calls me "Hero" ....you can call me Peter.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> When your headphones are plugged in and the WA22 is on, pause the music...do you hear any slight hum?


 
   
  Yes. A slight hum. I have to unplug the headphones to make sure that I'm not hearing the refrigerator in the distance but when I plug the headphones back in I do hear it ever so slightly. The hum--not the refrigerator.


----------



## MacedonianHero

clayton sf said:


> Yes. A slight hum. I have to unplug the headphones to make sure that I'm not hearing the refrigerator in the distance but when I plug the headphones back in I do hear it *ever so slightly.* The hum--not the refrigerator.




That's fine with me...thanks.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Te first time I had read about it was when an HD800 afficianato that had three pairs (wish I could remember who, he had some killer amps also) posted that his most recent pair was quite different sounding, with greater bass impact and toned down treble. Since then others have chimed in, from what I remember they need to be past # 7,500 or so but I can't say for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> There's easily been 500 posts in the main LCD-2 thread over the last few days since they announced the change, and a few impressions have trickled in. Evidently it's a thinner, quicker membrane that offers greater bass extension, the bass is tightened up a bit as well. Also the treble is more extended and resolving without becoming more forward so the overall tonal balance is unchanged. Warrior Ant is currently sorting out his thoughts on the new drivers and should be reporting in detail soon, and there is some detail on the Audeze website and Facebook page as well.


 
  What!!! I have to get this..... I ordered mine around april..... and they seems only offer the exchange for transaction between jun 1 - 30.... I wonder if there is anyway for me to get the updated version


----------



## grokit

I was wondering that as well, if there will be a paid retrofit program to get the new drivers and the new leather headband upgrades.
   
  I have been trying to remember who had the three pairs of HD800s, the amps he had included the Leben and the Peak/Volcano IIRC. Does this ring any bells, anyone?


----------



## BrucYSN

OH i think I might know one I need to go over my list.  ALthough he has the Leben and Pinnacle and that ultra expensive Meridian CD..... but he has 2 HD800 and a Ed.10 I think. Oh I believe he post that in the tread of showing your latest head phone pics....


----------



## grokit

Yes I think he was selling one of his three pairs, and the Pinnacle sounds familiar instead of the Peak/Volcano...
   
*edit:* I remember now, it was InnerSpace, in this review and the ensuing thread:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/539248/apex-pinnacle-vs-leben-cs300xs-the-awful-truth


----------



## BrucYSN

Hmmm I'd like to get some recommendations on the POWER tubes placement on the W22? Now I only have the TS5998/RCA 6A7G and what dose Sly 7236 adds to the table. 
  On the other hand I know Treasure was a bright tube I wonder how they compare to the Ken-rad vt231/Sly Vt-231 Ebay has some good deal on them.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Variable out? You mean the Volume? and. there was a headphone out at back of the DAC? I surely missed that


 


  W4S turned me on to this.  You have an adapter cable made from someone like Blue Jeans Cable.   One end out of the DAC-2 RCA Outs the other end for the headphone jack.  Plug it in use the variable volume control and your are good to go.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Te first time I had read about it was when an HD800 afficianato that had three pairs (wish I could remember who, he had some killer amps also) posted that his most recent pair was quite different sounding, with greater bass impact and toned down treble. Since then others have chimed in, from what I remember they need to be past # 7,500 or so but I can't say for sure.
> 
> 
> There's easily been 500 posts in the main LCD-2 thread over the last few days since they announced the change, and a few impressions have trickled in. Evidently it's a thinner, quicker membrane that offers greater bass extension, the bass is tightened up a bit as well. Also the treble is more extended and resolving without becoming more forward so the overall tonal balance is unchanged. Warrior Ant is currently sorting out his thoughts on the new drivers and should be reporting in detail soon, and there is some detail on the Audeze website and Facebook page as well.


 

 I'm going to wait till Monday night to post my thoughts.  Can't do it till then.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Hmmm I'd like to get some recommendations on the POWER tubes placement on the W22? Now I only have the TS5998/RCA 6A7G and what dose Sly 7236 adds to the table.
> On the other hand I know Treasure was a bright tube I wonder how they compare to the Ken-rad vt231/Sly Vt-231 Ebay has some good deal on them.


 


 I'm pretty happy with the 5998. But if you want more variety, I also really appreciate the GEC 6080.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm going to wait till Monday night to post my thoughts.  Can't do it till then.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. A slight hum. I have to unplug the headphones to make sure that I'm not hearing the refrigerator in the distance but when I plug the headphones back in I do hear it ever so slightly. The hum--not the refrigerator.


 
  I used to unplug the refrigerator so I wouldn't hear it when listening to my speaker rig.  Each and every time I said I would remember to plug it back in and never did, only to find the next day that I didn't remember.  I must have done that countless times.


----------



## Silent One

@ WarriorAnt ~
   
  I have been revamping my audio desk and rewiring my system from 2230 to 0130 hours. Just finished and put a few tracks through their paces from 44.1 kHz up to 192 kHz. Remember the missing dynamics, touch of bass and slam I was missing? They're b-a-c-k !-!-!  My DAC-1 is off the hook! Yup, it's big, wide and deep. I just hooked up the SX-650 and  sampled two tracks of Abraham Laboriel, Three tracks of Al Jarreau. 
   
  The DAC-1/SX-650 connection pushed the D7000's downstairs and made 'em come back with those notes that were temporarily M.I.A.. My Woo showed the same ability until recently, so this tells me I've a problem upstream 'cause the DAC-1 & Woo/Pioneer combo has demonstrated it can mix it up and take another DAC's lunch money! Maybe even yours!!! (just funnin' WarriorAnt) I'm just relieved that I can save $1,300. It was vacation funds at that! 
   
  Shipsupt hinted at giving my tubes a good lookin' at. I may have tube issues not hardware after all (whew). I'll need to test them. Funny, as he was the first with the suggestion and I'm goin' to meet with him next week anyway, I just didn't know I'd be bringing tubes along for inspection.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ WarriorAnt ~
> 
> I have been revamping my audio desk and rewiring my system from 2230 to 0130 hours. Just finished and put a few tracks through their paces from 44.1 kHz up to 192 kHz. Remember the missing dynamics, touch of bass and slam I was missing? They're b-a-c-k !-!-!  My DAC-1 is off the hook! Yup, it's big, wide and deep. I just hooked up the SX-650 and  sampled two tracks of Abraham Laboriel, Three tracks of Al Jarreau.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you given the pins a steel wool wipe and a deoxit treatment lately?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Have you given the pins a steel wool wipe and a deoxit treatment lately?


 

 Yes, with the Red then Gold DeoxIT. I used a really really fine wool because the pins didn't look bad last week. Maybe I should bring out the hammer and scrub like I'm gettin' paid!  :~) Thanks for asking. Really should be sleep, or resting at least. We're having way too much fun with this 1977 Pioneer! Also, I think it's time I invest in a tube tester. 
   
  Will try my backup NOS GE's but they don't really have that much bottom. If I had an amp that used separate Power & Driver tubes I'd be good with the GE's. They have a nice sound though. Since I'm testing, who cares! Let's see what happens tomorrow... I mean later on today.


----------



## jerico

macedonianhero said:


> jerico said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds fine to me (if that's what Hero meant) - no excess noise to make me think to set it to variable. I have no need of volume control at the DAC...
> ...




Cheers, Peter! My name is Justin but my wife occasionally calls me much harsher names!


J


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> When your headphones are plugged in and the WA22 is on, pause the music...do you hear any slight hum?


 

 Never tried that before.  When I do, it's dead silent.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes I think he was selling one of his three pairs, and the Pinnacle sounds familiar instead of the Peak/Volcano...
> 
> *edit:* I remember now, it was InnerSpace, in this review and the ensuing thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/539248/apex-pinnacle-vs-leben-cs300xs-the-awful-truth


 

 Grokit,
   
  Thanks for finding the post and getting it up here.  That was a credible review.


----------



## Lilac_Wine

Just ordered a WA6SE.  I plan on using the stock tubes for awhile.  It will be my first tube amp.  I currently use a Headroom Cosmic from around 2001 with HD650s.  Source is either a Marantz 67SE cd player or a Sonos playing primarily lossless files.  In the future I may look into a dac for the Sonos.
   
  I am excited to try the Woo.  I hope it is a big improvement over the Cosmic - although I do like that amp.


----------



## PanamaRed

Congradulations! I'm sure you will love your new Woo.
  
  Quote: 





lilac_wine said:


> Just ordered a WA6SE.  I plan on using the stock tubes for awhile.  It will be my first tube amp.  I currently use a Headroom Cosmic from around 2001 with HD650s.  Source is either a Marantz 67SE cd player or a Sonos playing primarily lossless files.  In the future I may look into a dac for the Sonos.
> 
> I am excited to try the Woo.  I hope it is a big improvement over the Cosmic - although I do like that amp.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ WarriorAnt ~
> 
> the DAC-1 & Woo/Pioneer combo has demonstrated it can mix it up and take another DAC's lunch money! Maybe even yours!!! (just funnin' WarriorAnt)


 
  Don't steal my lunch money, I'm saving it up for a Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Don't steal my lunch money, I'm saving it up for a Woo.


 

_Now that potential losses were averted, I'm in the mood to buy lunch... or refreshments at least!_


----------



## aRRR

Hey guys. I was rolling some driver tubes on my amplifier today and when it was finished with its warm up and on full power I heard a pop from my headphones. Followed by hum and one channel dead. Now these tubes were perfectly fine before, is it normal to have them just pop like this?


----------



## Skylab

Sounds like the tube arced. Not a good thing. Is the one tube dead? I would for sure not use that tube again unless you have a tube tester and can see that it is good. Did your headphones survive? I had a tube arc and take out one driver of a DT990.


----------



## aRRR

What does it mean if a tube arced? There was nothing visible inside the tube or anything.
  I cannot test it, so Ill just throw em away. I suppose one is dead although they still burn normally. Headphone is ok. I'm more worried about my amp


----------



## grokit

No doubt, your Zanden 7000-300B is a $30K tube amp


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. A slight hum. I have to unplug the headphones to make sure that I'm not hearing the refrigerator in the distance but when I plug the headphones back in I do hear it ever so slightly. The hum--not the refrigerator.


 
  Mine was dead silent.... I can hear nothing unless I turned up volume to max. Did you have the problem during evening or daytime? Normally the power would more pure during night. You can try swap tubes or change power cords...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sounds like the tube arced. Not a good thing. Is the one tube dead? I would for sure not use that tube again unless you have a tube tester and can see that it is good. Did your headphones survive? I had a tube arc and take out one driver of a DT990.


 


  What would cause arced? Is there any sign would show the tube is about go arced?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Mine was dead silent.... I can hear nothing unless I turned up volume to max. Did you have the problem during evening or daytime? Normally the power would more pure during night. You can try swap tubes or change power cords...


 

 I've tried everything. It is, however, a little lower when the WA22 is set to LO impedance. TheAudioDude has the same type of hum. He returned his WA22 to Jack Wu to have something shielded internally. I think he said that the hum is still there but lower than when he first got his amp.
   
  The hum I hear coming from my amp is at the same audio level whether the volume is at 0 or at max. I hear it only during quiet passages or between songs or when nothing is playing. It is very faint. Perhaps my hearing is a little more acute than most? I should have my head ears examined by a professional--it's time. Actually I've never had it checked out but I can hear sounds most of my friends can't. I think we audiophiles can hear that sounds that non-audiophiles can't.


----------



## grokit

It has to be one or more of the tubes or dirty power or something from the source, I've never heard any noise from my WA22.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks. I should try other tubes but I'm set with what I am using now. I know it's the quietest with an EML 5U4G mesh plate (I'm currently using a CV1863 from England), RCA 6SN7 clear tops, and Mullard 6080 from the 1960s


----------



## Skylab

There are a variety of things that could make a tube arc. It you are looking at the tube, you will actually see it arcing - you can see the electric charge jumping from plate to grid. Not good. It makes a very loud popping.

The popping could have been a tube that wasn't seated in the socket correctly too, though, with the contact being intermittent.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> Never tried that before.  When I do, it's dead silent.






brucysn said:


> Mine was dead silent.... I can hear nothing unless I turned up volume to max. Did you have the problem during evening or daytime? Normally the power would more pure during night. You can try swap tubes or change power cords...




Thanks fellas....looks like I'll just set my DAC-2 to "Fixed" for spdif when it arrives (hopefully tomorrow....if Canada Post comes through).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Thanks fellas....looks like I'll just set my DAC-2 to "Fixed" for spdif when it arrives (hopefully tomorrow....if Canada Post comes through).


 

 I've set my DAC-2 to fixed and the volume is on max.  Is that the way it is supposed to be?  Could I set it on 50 and set the volume to fixed?  I have to turn my volume way down, two clicks on low impedence.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've tried everything. It is, however, a little lower when the WA22 is set to LO impedance. TheAudioDude has the same type of hum. He returned his WA22 to Jack Wu to have something shielded internally. I think he said that the hum is still there but lower than when he first got his amp.
> 
> The hum I hear coming from my amp is at the same audio level whether the volume is at 0 or at max. I hear it only during quiet passages or between songs or when nothing is playing. It is very faint. Perhaps my hearing is a little more acute than most? I should have my head ears examined by a professional--it's time. Actually I've never had it checked out but I can hear sounds most of my friends can't. I think we audiophiles can hear that sounds that non-audiophiles can't.


 

 I've always enjoyed my trips to the Audiologist much in the same manner as a trip to the spa. :~)


----------



## BrucYSN

Fixed what? It looks confusing,  i never read the DAC-2 menu so enlighten me what exactly dose fix do .......


----------



## PanamaRed

Yes, you can reduce the fixed mode volume by setting the max volume for the input to suit your needs. I.e. The fixed mode will automatically use the max.
   
  (Note: The Min level has to be set to 0)
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I've set my DAC-2 to fixed and the volume is on max.  Is that the way it is supposed to be?  Could I set it on 50 and set the volume to fixed?  I have to turn my volume way down, two clicks on low impedence.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Don't steal my lunch money, I'm saving it up for a Woo.


 


  How's the rev.2?


----------



## Silent One

If WarriorAnt is on track and on time, his review should hit later tonight...


----------



## Silent One

Early renovation pix ~
   
  Just completed renovating the listening room. I exchanged the small desk I had been using for a larger fold-out table. With the former, a collapse from too much weight was imminent. Cable management still to come...
   
  What the Woo Audio WA 6 Special Edition gets:
   
  - 2010 Mac mini w/Corsair 60GB SSD; 8GB RAM; Fixed-integer streams w/ Pure Music 1.8a & Audirvana 
  - Wyred4Sound DAC-1
   
   
  What the Pioneer SX-650 gets:
   
  - 2010 Mac mini w/Corsair 60GB SSD; 8GB RAM; Fixed-integer streams w/ Pure Music 1.8a & Audirvana
  - EMU-0404 USB Interface w/linear supply
  - Sony DVD/CD Player
  - Sony Portable (model name withheld)
  - Gemini PT-2000 III TT


----------



## BrucYSN

What dose that 0404 do? Although I wish I could arrange my rig in such compact manner, my new place has power outlet issue...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> What dose that 0404 do? Although I wish I could arrange my rig in such compact manner, my new place has power outlet issue...


 

 The EMU-0404 has 4 inputs & 4 outputs, giving the model name its designation. The unit allows one to record, mix, playback. Has both balanced & unbalanced in/outputs. I use it primarily to run the turn-table through so I can 'rip' vinyl albums to my computer. And also as a DAC for the integrated amp. I too, have power outlet issues. Too many appliances (I'm a guest in someone's home) are plugged in. :~(
   
  And with all of my cables and power cords 1 meter in length, things get pretty challenging. The outlet underneath the table has a broken childproof cover in one of the plugs, leaving just one...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Early renovation pix ~
> 
> Just completed renovating the listening room. I exchanged the small desk I had been using for a larger fold-out table. With the former, a collapse from too much weight was imminent. Cable management still to come...
> 
> ...


 


 Very nice, very tidy and very musical.  Looking good.  How long did it take you to get it all organized?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Yes, you can reduce the fixed mode volume by setting the max volume for the input to suit your needs. I.e. The fixed mode will automatically use the max.
> 
> (Note: The Min level has to be set to 0)


 

 What do you have your volume set at?
   
  Help me understand.  Is the thinking that audio sounds better in fixed mode and that is why we do it?  Do you know what it is about fixed mode that matters?  Thanks.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What do you have your volume set at?
> 
> Help me understand.  Is the thinking that audio sounds better in fixed mode and that is why we do it?  Do you know what it is about fixed mode that matters?  Thanks.


 


 I can't answer for P.R., but it's my understanding that from a purely sound quality consideration, one should avoid adjusting "volume" while in the digital realm. 90%-100% might be o.k. though.
  I use it myself on some of my players for casual listening, but my Transporter is always fed @ 100% on the digital input.


----------



## PanamaRed

In all honesty I have no idea why it's recommended to set the DAC-2 to fixed mode.
   
  For my Matrix Mini-I, the headphone out is shut off in DAC mode to get the best sound, but that obviously doesn't apply to the DAC-2.
   

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What do you have your volume set at?
> 
> Help me understand.  Is the thinking that audio sounds better in fixed mode and that is why we do it?  Do you know what it is about fixed mode that matters?  Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> ****  Not loaning...um, borrowing but rather buying with the option if _"This ain't it" it's goin' back!_
> I buy majority of my goodies from Aphrodite Cu29. I'd like to get employed so I can buy more from Woo Audio (he grins broadly).


 
  I've never hear of the V800. How did you come across this one? This would add a third to the mix, yes? Bryston BDA-1, W4S DAC-2, and the V800. Eek!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I don't use fixed mode on my DAC2 as I'm switching between headphone listening with the WA22 and nearfield listening with the Klein & Hummells.  When I'm on the headphones I don't need volume control at the DAC so I set it to maximum and control volume at the WA22.  When I'm on the monitors I control volume at the DAC so it never gets much past the half-way point.  Works great for me and is the main reason I went with the DAC2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Very nice, very tidy and very musical.  Looking good.  How long did it take you to get it all organized?


 


  The physical swapping of desk, table and connection of gear only took 20 minutes. This is due to a head-start. My responsibilities kept me busy through the day/night. Playtime came only after midnight. Ah, but 'The Silent One' used his time wisely. And ran through several mental configurations while working. Providing much needed stimulation, like Chess; Shopping. 
   
  It was a walk in the park (Central Park @ night!). It was simple but not easy. I was sleepy and not too observant and kept stepping on or tripping over the components I tried to place on the floor out of the way. Had I ended up on crutches, I'd still be able to don the headphones.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Out of view on the right wall sits the TT on the bottom of a bookshelf. I simply move it in position on the right-side of the table on a portable stand; space is at a premium. To get a better picture of this, I place the portable stand sideways off the front corner ahead of the plant.
   
  This achieves a U-shape config allowing me control of the computer on the left, console in front and TT to the right all at once. You know, like a home studio... on a budget. 




   
  On the Digital Volume control, as I understand them, 'Max' setting should be viewed as normal. With each increase in attenuation, there's a bit of a loss in resolution (a sliding scale , if you would). Not much, but  nonetheless...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've never hear of the V800. How did you come across this one? This would add a third to the mix, yes? Bryston BDA-1, W4S DAC-2, and the V800. Eek!


 

 The Violetric V800 is made by The Lake People, a Pro Audio outfit in Germany. 'Violetric' is their consumer effort. The unit arrived two hours ago; too busy to unwrap and inspect. Unable to get to it until later tonight. Bryston BDA-1, W4S DAC-2?! I wish!!! W4S will help me with an exchange in the event I do not sell the DAC-1 (great company!). And that Big Bad BDA-1 belongs to mikemalter.
   
  A few pages back, there were a few posts expressing more could be had for the money. Intrigued, I chimed in to high-light what makes this a fine purchase and _what goes into a 'Bryston.'  _Didn't mean to mislead anyone...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Violetric V800 is made by The Lake People, a Pro Audio outfit in Germany. 'Violetric' is their consumer effort. The unit arrived two hours ago; too busy to unwrap and inspect. Unable to get to it until later tonight. Bryston BDA-1, W4S DAC-2?! I wish!!! W4S will help me with an exchange in the event I do not sell the DAC-1 (great company!). And that Big Bad BDA-1 belongs to mikemalter.
> 
> A few pages back, there were a few posts expressing more could be had for the money. Intrigued, I chimed in to high-light what makes this a fine purchase and _what goes into a 'Bryston.'  _Didn't mean to mislead anyone...


 

 You didn't mislead anyone. I meant the mix of DACs I mentioned came from a combination of everyone here and that the Violectric was a new one--to me at least.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You didn't mislead anyone. I meant the mix of DACs I mentioned came from a combination of everyone here and that the Violectric was a new one--to me at least.


 

 It certainly looks well made... like a tank! I get to play @ 23:30...  :~)


----------



## BrucYSN

Rip LP why would you do such thing lol , although I thought ripping the lp needs some A/D conversion? which i wonder how's the quality of riping
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The EMU-0404 has 4 inputs & 4 outputs, giving the model name its designation. The unit allows one to record, mix, playback. Has both balanced & unbalanced in/outputs. I use it primarily to run the turn-table through so I can 'rip' vinyl albums to my computer. And also as a DAC for the integrated amp. I too, have power outlet issues. Too many appliances (I'm a guest in someone's home) are plugged in. :~(
> 
> And with all of my cables and power cords 1 meter in length, things get pretty challenging. The outlet underneath the table has a broken childproof cover in one of the plugs, leaving just one...


----------



## tupac0306

I guess here is the best place to ask this question. Can someone tells me what combination of tubes brings out the best of LCD 2?
   
  So far I heard that 6FD7 works better than 6EW7. It brings out the bass. Any suggestions? or other impressions?
   
  Has anyone tried 6EM7? How do they sound?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Rip LP why would you do such thing lol , although I thought ripping the lp needs some A/D conversion? which i wonder how's the quality of riping


 

_Rip LP's? Who does that?! _
   
  The conversion takes place with the EMU-0404. I'm sure there are other ways to get the cat skinned & racked. But none that I'll pay extra for.


----------



## grokit

I have a 16/44 DAC/ADC but for converting vinyl I'm just going to use the mic input of my Mac, which is 24/192 capable to capture more resolution.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> I've set my DAC-2 to fixed and the volume is on max.  Is that the way it is supposed to be?  Could I set it on 50 and set the volume to fixed?  I have to turn my volume way down, two clicks on low impedence.




Mike, if you don't hear any hum, then fixed is a good solution. I set mine to fixed as well, but at 65...I found 70 was a tad too much. Variable is a bit of a pain constantly moving up the setting from 40 to 65 every time I turn the DAC on. I talked to Wyred 4 Sound today and they mentioned this was more than acceptable. 

To change your fixed value from 70 (max) down, you'll have to enter the main menu (hold all 3 buttons from standby) and select each input and set the input first to "fixed" then set the Max value to whatever you want it to be.


----------



## MacedonianHero

windycitycy said:


> I don't use fixed mode on my DAC2 as I'm switching between headphone listening with the WA22 and nearfield listening with the Klein & Hummells.  When I'm on the headphones I don't need volume control at the DAC so I set it to maximum and control volume at the WA22.  When I'm on the monitors I control volume at the DAC so it never gets much past the half-way point.  Works great for me and is the main reason I went with the DAC2.




That works too as you've got the remote functionality with the DAC-2.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Mike, if you don't hear any hum, then fixed is a good solution. I set mine to fixed as well, but at 65...I found 70 was a tad too much. Variable is a bit of a pain constantly moving up the setting from 40 to 65 every time I turn the DAC on. I talked to Wyred 4 Sound today and they mentioned this was more than acceptable.
> 
> To change your fixed value from 70 (max) down, you'll have to enter the main menu (hold all 3 buttons from standby) and select each input and set the input first to "fixed" then set the Max value to whatever you want it to be.


 

 I set my volume on 50, but I think maybe 55 or possibly even 60 might be better.
   
  What is the issue with fixed vs. variable.  Why is it sonically better to have it on fixed?  I can ask Clint tomorrow as I have a few issues to review with him.


----------



## Silent One

Inside his listening room... cont'd ~
   
  Gemini PT-2000 III TT
   

   
   
  Audiophile recording on deck: Yamaha R&D Studios Session III - 1981. Received a studio copy during my stereo manufacturing days...
  Features a young Keiko Doi (Matsui) who was Yamaha's top student as a 17 year old phenom. Came to America @ 19 to do session work with a lot of the Jazz greats. Bassist Nathan East and a few other notables appear on this recording for Yamaha as well...
   

   
   
  Violetric V800 installed; awaiting listening session @ Midnight!
   

   
   
  Screensaver close-up: Cafe de Flore, Paris.


----------



## shipsupt

tupac0306 said:


> I guess here is the best place to ask this question. Can someone tells me what combination of tubes brings out the best of LCD 2?
> 
> So far I heard that 6FD7 works better than 6EW7. It brings out the bass. Any suggestions? or other impressions?
> 
> ...




With the 6SE my current go to for the LCD 2 is the Sylvania fat bottle black plate 6FD7. I like the energy and detail they bring to the LCD 2. I haven't tried the 6EM7.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Inside his listening room... cont'd ~
> 
> Gemini PT-2000 III TT
> 
> ...


 

 Beam me up Scottie!!!!!
   
  Wow, there is something about the turntable that just makes a house a home.  Spectaluous!  Now, I'm going to have to get mine out and I have no room until I get my DAC choice settled.
   
  Nice stuff, man.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Beam me up Scottie!!!!!
> 
> Wow, there is something about the turntable that just makes a house a home.  Spectaluous!  Now, I'm going to have to get mine out and I have no room until I get my DAC choice settled.
> 
> Nice stuff, man.


 

 Thanks. Just added the screensaver just for you! Also, I hope Clayton SF has a chance to look - he made it possible. Thanks Clayton!


----------



## BrucYSN

I wonder if there is a throughly written comparison between W22 and V200 I was looking for another SS amp for my rig lol, again nice arrangement, did you get any special power bars kinda thing for your system, I also need longer power  strip for my room. 


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Inside his listening room... cont'd ~
> 
> Gemini PT-2000 III TT
> 
> ...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> That works too as you've got the remote functionality with the DAC-2.


 


  Ummm, don't you still owe us a comparison on WA2 and W22?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. Just added the screensaver just for you! Also, I hope Clayton SF has a chance to look - he made it possible. Thanks Clayton!


 

 You're welcome! The turntable definitely looks at home there.
  A house is not a home until you've got a setup like yours.
  Nice *Piggybacked* DACs!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> I wonder if there is a throughly written comparison between W22 and V200 I was looking for another SS amp for my rig lol, again nice arrangement, did you get any special power bars kinda thing for your system, I also need longer power  strip for my room.


 

 Thanks for your kind words. I have yet to address the issue of clean power. But I need to if I'm to reach the next level.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're welcome! The turntable definitely looks at home there.
> A house is not a home until you've got a setup like yours.
> Nice *Piggybacked* DACs!


 

 When I climbed aboard BART, other passengers had no idea what I was rollin' with!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When I climbed aboard BART, other passengers had no idea what I was rollin' with!


 

 Such innovative thinking. Nudging that turntable carefully into your suitcase alongside your Denon AH-D7000 and wheeling them down that steep SF hill from my apartment to BART must have been a sight to see. TT & HP on Wheels.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Such innovative thinking. Nudging that turntable carefully into your suitcase alongside your Denon AH-D7000 and wheeling them down that steep SF hill from my apartment to BART must have been a sight to see. TT & HP on Wheels.


 

_I was smooth & silent! _


----------



## PanamaRed

Very nice setup SilentOne. Also, looks like a very comfy chair.
   
  Eventually I need to upgrade my listening chair to either a lay-z-boy or one of these: http://www.lovesac.com/sacs/supersac-package-classic-tweed.html
   
  I tried one at the mall. My wife had to pry me away from it.
   
  Not exactly classy, but i'm not a classy guy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Very nice setup SilentOne. Also, looks like a very comfy chair.
> 
> Eventually I need to upgrade my listening chair to either a lay-z-boy or one of these: http://www.lovesac.com/sacs/supersac-package-classic-tweed.html
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, PanamaRed. I love that high back sexy black leather chair... _downright inviting_. I have a huge executive oak desk sitting in storage in L.A. (along with most of my things). I'm off to see the link you provided. And being the considerate member I am, I'll also help you determine what concessions you'll have to make to your wife for said chair!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Post Script.:  I want it!


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And being the considerate member I am, I'll also help you determine what concessions you'll have to make to your wife for said chair!


 
   
  Seriously, i'll need that. The WA22 cost me a considerable shopping spree at Ann Taylor.


----------



## Silent One

Another side to his listening room... 
   
  Two vintage black light posters on the opposing wall. The famous War Queen poster (1971)  by The Houston Blacklight & Poster Dist Co (artist George Goode). And a renown East Oakland artist painted the little girl (1971). Behind the door stands a 48" black light.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Seriously, i'll need that. The WA22 cost me a considerable shopping spree at Ann Taylor.


 

 I know Ann all too well. The backside of my office was a few yards from her boutique in B.H. before she shut it down some eight years ago (1 blk West of Rodeo). I believe that location was a former dance studio because of the beautiful hardwood flooring and railing along the wall. It would have made a nice listening room, that's for certain!


----------



## emremusic

What an inspiring room! I have much respect for you.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Another side to his listening room...
> 
> Two vintage black light posters on the opposing wall. The famous War Queen poster (1971)  by The Houston Blacklight & Poster Dist Co (artist George Goode). And a renown East Oakland artist painted the little girl (1971). Behind the door stands a 48" black light.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> What an inspiring room! I have much respect for you.


 

  
  Great to hear from you, emremusic... thanks kindly! I am literally operating on a shoe-string budget as they say (unemployed). So, what to do without $$$? Just sling the existing pieces around  - remodeling can be good for the soul. :~)
   
  I haven't forgot my fellow head-fier and musician - looking forward to buying one of your CD's. Is your group doing downloads and discs or just discs for now? Any hi-rez offerings via 96/24 kHz? My Woo needs to consume more hi-rez fare...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, PanamaRed. I love that high back sexy black leather chair... _downright inviting_. I have a huge executive oak desk sitting in storage in L.A. (along with most of my things). I'm off to see the link you provided. And being the considerate member I am, I'll also help you determine what concessions you'll have to make to your wife for said chair!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  isthat chair $600?


----------



## emremusic

Thank you SilentOne. I'm actually still here, I read this forum three times a day. (it's the only thread I check up on) But I don't say much, because I'm still new at this hobby. I'm learning a lot about tubes and Dacs though, thanks to more experienced headfiers like you.
   
  Actually there is a recording I'm very proud of, both musically, and overall sonically. The instrumentation is interesting, guitar, banjo, pedal steel, clarinet, flugel horn, bass and drums. Our goal was the make a very melodic, lush jazz album influenced by American folk music. There is some Bach, Ornette Coleman and Balkan influence there as well.
   
  You can download as mp3, ALAC, or FLAC.. It's available as all formats I know of. The recording engineer and the rest of the band believes in high detailed recordings too. You can even listen to the whole album before you buy. The link is:
   
  http://oldnewthings.bandcamp.com/
   
  Please check out how upright bass was recorded, it's the woodiest tone I've heard. I wouldn't normally mention this in this thread, but I've been really enjoying the upright bass passages in the recording with my AKG 701s, and 6SE. I can't imagine what it would sound like on some headphones better known for it's bass response. 
   
  There is also a youtube video of one of the sessions:
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btjHsr5r7ok
   
   
  Thanks again SilentOne, and all the other Woo friends, I'm addicted to this thread. 
   
  Emre
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great to hear from you, emremusic... thanks kindly! I am literally operating on a shoe-string budget as they say (unemployed). So, what to do without $$$? Just sling the existing pieces around  - remodeling can be good for the soul. :~)
> 
> I haven't forgot my fellow head-fier and musician - looking forward to buying one of your CD's. Is your group doing downloads and discs or just discs for now? Any hi-rez offerings via 96/24 kHz? My Woo needs to consume more hi-rez fare...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Thank you SilentOne. I'm actually still here, I read this forum three times a day. (it's the only thread I check up on) But I don't say much, because I'm still new at this hobby. I'm learning a lot about tubes and Dacs though, thanks to more experienced headfiers like you.
> 
> Actually there is a recording I'm very proud of, both musically, and overall sonically. The instrumentation is interesting, guitar, banjo, pedal steel, clarinet, flugel horn, bass and drums. Our goal was the make a very melodic, lush jazz album influenced by American folk music. There is some Bach, Ornette Coleman and Balkan influence there as well.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, emre. Sounds like adventure. Will get over there and listen later tonight. Currently auditioning a new DAC - should have went to bed a few hours back (getting sleepy @ 0530 hours). But you know what this hobby is like!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> isthat chair $600?


 

 $699 (temp out of stock). I'd love to turn the lights off to see the tubes inside my Woo glow from that chair!


----------



## BrucYSN

That's a expensive chair......... I'd spent that money on some fun headphones lol


----------



## mikemalter

For all of us Wyred 4 Sound guys, I just had a very interesting conversation with Clint.  I was asking about sonic consequences of the fixed vs. variable setting on the DAC-2 and he said sonic quality is not impacted by the fixed or variable setting but by the level.
   
  He said that for 24 bit, 55 was measured in the shop as optimal, and the optimal setting for 16 bit was a few steps below 55.  The idea behind fixed vs variable was that if you had your setting to fixed, it would automatically use the highest setting whenever it was turned on.
   
  Just thought I'd pass that along.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> For all of us Wyred 4 Sound guys, I just had a very interesting conversation with Clint.  I was asking about sonic consequences of the fixed vs. variable setting on the DAC-2 and he said sonic quality is not impacted by the fixed or variable setting but by the level.
> 
> He said that for 24 bit, 55 was measured in the shop as optimal, and the optimal setting for 16 bit was a few steps below 55.  The idea behind fixed vs variable was that if you had your setting to fixed, it would automatically use the highest setting whenever it was turned on.
> 
> Just thought I'd pass that along.


 

 Sound and solid. Thanks for your effort! One thing I'm finding out about our W4S DACs is that their design in a few ways differ from the norm. Even their i2s interface is different than many other manufacturer's i2s interfaces, giving meaning to 'fully balanced'.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> For all of us Wyred 4 Sound guys, I just had a very interesting conversation with Clint.  I was asking about sonic consequences of the fixed vs. variable setting on the DAC-2 and he said sonic quality is not impacted by the fixed or variable setting but by the level.
> 
> He said that for 24 bit, 55 was measured in the shop as optimal, and the optimal setting for 16 bit was a few steps below 55.  The idea behind fixed vs variable was that if you had your setting to fixed, it would automatically use the highest setting whenever it was turned on.
> 
> Just thought I'd pass that along.


 

 Very nice info Mike,
   
  I'll add a Post-It note into my manual with that.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> I set my volume on 50, but I think maybe 55 or possibly even 60 might be better.
> 
> What is the issue with fixed vs. variable.  Why is it sonically better to have it on fixed?  I can ask Clint tomorrow as I have a few issues to review with him.




I don't think it matters much sonically from what I hear, just if you're going to leave it at one setting, using fixed is simpler as you don't have to constantly set the volume every time you turn on your DAC-2. I would think that the absolute setting of the volume level might be important. I'm running it now at 60.



brucysn said:


> Ummm, don't you still owe us a comparison on WA2 and W22?




I do, but my DAC-2 kinda side tracked things. I wanted to compare the WA22 balanced vs. unbalanced as well. Pretty good difference so far running it balanced.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemalter said:


> For all of us Wyred 4 Sound guys, I just had a very interesting conversation with Clint.  I was asking about sonic consequences of the fixed vs. variable setting on the DAC-2 and he said sonic quality is not impacted by the fixed or variable setting but by the level.
> 
> He said that for 24 bit, 55 was measured in the shop as optimal, and the optimal setting for 16 bit was a few steps below 55.  The idea behind fixed vs variable was that if you had your setting to fixed, it would automatically use the highest setting whenever it was turned on.
> 
> Just thought I'd pass that along.




Cool...thanks!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> For all of us Wyred 4 Sound guys, I just had a very interesting conversation with Clint.  I was asking about sonic consequences of the fixed vs. variable setting on the DAC-2 and he said sonic quality is not impacted by the fixed or variable setting but by the level.
> 
> He said that for 24 bit, 55 was measured in the shop as optimal, and the optimal setting for 16 bit was a few steps below 55.  The idea behind fixed vs variable was that if you had your setting to fixed, it would automatically use the highest setting whenever it was turned on.
> 
> Just thought I'd pass that along.


 

 I'm confused about the level.   55 is better than 65 which is the top level of the variable and I think fixed level also?


----------



## grokit

I received my used late model HD800 (# 109xx) today and am very pleased. Besides being a more recent model I am using different tubes than I was before. I finally got to try the Ultimate Headphone System as profiled in that Positive Feedback review, with the same tube setup but a different headphone cable; I am using the same OCC "Nucloutide" copper balanced cable that I had before while they are using the TWag v2 silver cable that I passed on from the HD800 seller.
   
  Of course they are using different sources as well in that review, but no matter because I have finally found a tube combo for the WA22 that optimizes both the HD800 and my LCD-2. These are both great, versatile headphones, just different. If I want a sense of air and spaciousness I have that, or I can switch to more intimacy and timbre in a heartbeat. These are both very transparent and dynamic headphones just with different flavors and my WA22 feels complete again.
   
  If anyone missed it I'm talking about the exact tube upgrades that are featured on Woo's WA22 product/order page. AFAIK I am the only one on Head-fi that has tried these tubes together on a WA22. I am pretty sure that the Positive Feedback reviewer was just going by Jack's recommendation for these tubes, so thanks Jack great call!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm confused about the level.   55 is better than 65 which is the top level of the variable and I think fixed level also?


 

 I find it odd as well.  Generally speaking digital volume controls are best set at their maximum setting,  because it will truncate bits when set to anything else and thus potentially raises the noise floor by lowering the SNR.  I'd love to hear the detailed reasoning behind why the designers suggest the lower setting.  This is why I much prefer it when DACs do not have volume controls at all, and use a fixed output voltage.  That way obsessive types like myself don't have to fuss over which settings are best because there are no settings.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I find it odd as well.  Generally speaking digital volume controls are best set at their maximum setting,  because it will truncate bits when set to anything else and thus potentially raises the noise floor by lowering the SNR.  I'd love to hear the detailed reasoning behind why the designers suggest the lower setting.  This is why I much prefer it when DACs do not have volume controls at all, and use a fixed output voltage.  That way obsessive types like myself don't have to fuss over which settings are best because there are no settings.


 

 Concepts ~
   
  Additionally, users with choices feel compelled to employ features because they have them, without fully understanding the design. Even Michelin Starred restaurants know not to give customers too many choices... if any!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I received my used late model HD800 (# 109xx) today and am very pleased. Besides being a more recent model I am using different tubes than I was before. I finally got to try the Ultimate Headphone System as profiled in that Positive Feedback review, with the same tube setup but a different headphone cable; I am using the same OCC "Nucloutide" copper balanced cable that I had before while they are using the TWag v2 silver cable that I passed on from the HD800 seller.
> 
> Of course they are using different sources as well in that review, but no matter because I have finally found a tube combo for the WA22 that optimizes both the HD800 and my LCD-2. These are both great, versatile headphones, just different. If I want a sense of air and spaciousness I have that, or I can switch to more intimacy and timbre in a heartbeat. These are both very transparent and dynamic headphones just with different flavors and my WA22 feels complete again.
> 
> If anyone missed it I'm talking about the exact tube upgrades that are featured on Woo's WA22 product/order page. AFAIK I am the only one on Head-fi that has tried these tubes together on a WA22. I am pretty sure that the Positive Feedback reviewer was just going by Jack's recommendation for these tubes, so thanks Jack great call!


 
   

   
   

  You saved current and would be WA22 owners a lot of trial, expense and error with your confirmation. Now they can afford to buy you dinner and drink and still come out ahead.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm confused about the level.   55 is better than 65 which is the top level of the variable and I think fixed level also?


 

 Not sure I understand your question.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I find it odd as well.  Generally speaking digital volume controls are best set at their maximum setting,  because it will truncate bits when set to anything else and thus potentially raises the noise floor by lowering the SNR.  I'd love to hear the detailed reasoning behind why the designers suggest the lower setting.  This is why I much prefer it when DACs do not have volume controls at all, and use a fixed output voltage.  That way obsessive types like myself don't have to fuss over which settings are best because there are no settings.


 


 I can only go by what Clint told me and he says they measured it in the shop, and for 24 bit, 55 was the best.  For 16 bit, the setting was a little below.
   
  Before our phone call, I was working with various settings and found for my preferences that 55 produced the best sound.
   
  If you are not sure about what to do, set it at 55 and leave it there for a while.  Then, if your intuition says to change it, at least you tried it.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I received my used late model HD800 (# 109xx) today and am very pleased. Besides being a more recent model I am using different tubes than I was before. I finally got to try the Ultimate Headphone System as profiled in that Positive Feedback review, with the same tube setup but a different headphone cable; I am using the same OCC "Nucloutide" copper balanced cable that I had before while they are using the TWag v2 silver cable that I passed on from the HD800 seller.
> 
> Of course they are using different sources as well in that review, but no matter because I have finally found a tube combo for the WA22 that optimizes both the HD800 and my LCD-2. These are both great, versatile headphones, just different. If I want a sense of air and spaciousness I have that, or I can switch to more intimacy and timbre in a heartbeat. These are both very transparent and dynamic headphones just with different flavors and my WA22 feels complete again.
> 
> If anyone missed it I'm talking about the exact tube upgrades that are featured on Woo's WA22 product/order page. AFAIK I am the only one on Head-fi that has tried these tubes together on a WA22. I am pretty sure that the Positive Feedback reviewer was just going by Jack's recommendation for these tubes, so thanks Jack great call!


 
   
  Nice to hear you found a sweet spot, and with two hot headphones nontheless!


----------



## grokit

Quote:  
   

  You saved current and would be WA22 owners a lot of trial, expense and error with your confirmation. Now they can afford to buy you dinner and drink and still come out ahead.




   
   
  It used to be pretty frustrating, the two headphones sounded so different that I really couldn't listen to them both on the same day, definitely not during the same listening session. I would always want to change tubes in between as well. Now I can freely A/B these two headphones and truly appreciate the difference, even during the same song. The WA22 has no issues powering both headphones at the same time (dual 3-pin for the HD800 single 4-pin for the LCD-2) either so it makes this pretty easy. It's like they have "come together" quite a bit sonically, I really didn't expect that. 

   
  Surf and turf with a nice Petite Syrah please!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think the ticket, when it eventually gets done, will be Virtue Audio's new DAC platform.  My integrated amp from them is still the piece of gear I'm most impressed by out of everything I've owned so far.  It's too bad they don't take a crack at the SS headphone amp world because I think they'd do well.  Lots of people are apparently using their integrated to drive headphones anyway..... in fact I wonder if that wouldn't be a really great economical solution for HE-6 and LCD-2 owners.  Definitely no lack of power there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


 
   

  You saved current and would be WA22 owners a lot of trial, expense and error with your confirmation. Now they can afford to buy you dinner and drink and still come out ahead.




   
   
  It used to be pretty frustrating, the two headphones sounded so different that I really couldn't listen to them both on the same day, definitely not during the same listening session. I would always want to change tubes in between as well. Now I can freely A/B these two headphones and truly appreciate the difference, even during the same song. The WA22 has no issues powering both headphones at the same time (dual 3-pin for the HD800 single 4-pin for the LCD-2) either so it makes this pretty easy. It's like they have "come together" quite a bit sonically, I really didn't expect that. 
   
   

   
  Surf and turf with a nice Petite Syrah please!




   
   
_Yes, give me the good life! _ I might be a few $$$ shy of getting a WA22 (A LOT, actually...) but I delight in taking notes from y'all's experiences.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Not sure I understand your question.


 
  Mike I don't understand my question either!   I guess I'm just wondering why Clint would say 55 is optimal when the DAC goes up to 65 and 65 is full out put.  I was going to email Clint about another topic tomorrow so I'll include this question to see  if he can shed more light on it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike I don't understand my question either!   I guess I'm just wondering why Clint would say 55 is optimal when the DAC goes up to 65 and 65 is full out put.  I was going to email Clint about another topic tomorrow so I'll include this question to see  if he can shed more light on it.


 

 Once I understood how you're viewing this, your question came easy. Goin' one-on-one with Clint are you? What you need to hit him with (or EJ) is "Member of The Trade" status. So, they could periodically jump in when the dialogue prompts and their time permits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks, WarriorAnt!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I received my used late model HD800 (# 109xx) today and am very pleased. Besides being a more recent model I am using different tubes than I was before. I finally got to try the Ultimate Headphone System as profiled in that Positive Feedback review, with the same tube setup but a different headphone cable; I am using the same OCC "Nucloutide" copper balanced cable that I had before while they are using the TWag v2 silver cable that I passed on from the HD800 seller.
> 
> Of course they are using different sources as well in that review, but no matter because I have finally found a tube combo for the WA22 that optimizes both the HD800 and my LCD-2. These are both great, versatile headphones, just different. If I want a sense of air and spaciousness I have that, or I can switch to more intimacy and timbre in a heartbeat. These are both very transparent and dynamic headphones just with different flavors and my WA22 feels complete again.
> 
> If anyone missed it I'm talking about the exact tube upgrades that are featured on Woo's WA22 product/order page. AFAIK I am the only one on Head-fi that has tried these tubes together on a WA22. I am pretty sure that the Positive Feedback reviewer was just going by Jack's recommendation for these tubes, so thanks Jack great call!


 
   
   
   

 I tried the exact combo you are using now and I do like it with HD800 until I swap out the Princess with EML 274B.  Princess make it way to the chopping block after I have 200 hours on the EML.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I tried the exact combo you are using now and I do like it with HD800 until I swap out the Princess with EML 274B.  Princess make it way to the chopping block after I have 200 hours on the EML.


 
  Hi--how have you been? SF is very cool for this summer. It's currently 18C/57F. *Sushi* weather.
   
  Do you prefer the EML 274B over the EML 5U4G? I have the 5U4G.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi--how have you been? SF is very cool for this summer. It's currently 18C/57F. *Sushi* weather.
> 
> Do you prefer the EML 274B over the EML 5U4G? I have the 5U4G.


 

 Not sushi time but sake time...  wish I can going back soon...
   
  No, they are different but I do love both of them.  The 5U4G is more well rounded tube for all genre and headphones, while the 274B is great with HD800 and OK with LCD-2 but not so much with D7000.
   
  Off topic, I'm getting a balanced beta22 soon, hopefully before Labor Day.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not sushi time but sake time...  wish I can going back soon...
> 
> No, they are different but I do love both of them.  The 5U4G is more well rounded tube for all genre and headphones, while the 274B is great with HD800 and OK with LCD-2 but not so much with D7000.
> 
> Off topic, I'm getting a balanced beta22 soon, hopefully before Labor Day.


 
  OT: By Corey, no doubt! Congrats. I wonder where he's building it. He's still at his in-laws I'd imagine.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I tried the exact combo you are using now and I do like it with HD800 until I swap out the Princess with EML 274B.  Princess make it way to the chopping block after I have 200 hours on the EML.


 
   
  It's good to know that I'm not the only one that has tried these tubes together. That is the one tube roll that I would still like to try, swapping out the Princess for the EML 274B.
   
  Two questions: Which rectifier tube do you like better with the LCD-2 in that setup, and are you using the mesh plate or the solid plate EML?
   
    
  Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Not sushi time but sake time...  wish I can going back soon...
> 
> No, they are different but I do love both of them.  The 5U4G is more well rounded tube for all genre and headphones, while the 274B is great with HD800 and OK with LCD-2 but not so much with D7000.
> 
> Off topic, I'm getting a balanced beta22 soon, hopefully before Labor Day.


 

 I rolled my EML 5U4g in briefly just to test it for a listening session, I thought that it was definitely more euphonic with the LCD-2 but I felt that it lost a bit of focus. Haven't tried it with the HD800 yet.


----------



## grokit

Just quoting from a different thread, evidently there are three of us now using these tubes!
  Quote: 





danne said:


> Close up


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Just quoting from a different thread, evidently there are three of us now using these tubes!


 


  Beautifully displayed, grokit. I really like the desk; workstation as well (can't seem to describe your surface/display area).


----------



## grokit

*danne*'s system, not mine. Looks like a proper audio stand though


----------



## jc9394

grokit said:


> It's good to know that I'm not the only one that has tried these tubes together. That is the one tube roll that I would still like to try, swapping out the Princess for the EML 274B.
> 
> Two questions: Which rectifier tube do you like better with the LCD-2 in that setup, and are you using the mesh plate or the solid plate EML?
> 
> ...




Yes, it definitely match LCD-2 much better than HD800, that is why I use 274B with HD800.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> OT: By Corey, no doubt! Congrats. I wonder where he's building it. He's still at his in-laws I'd imagine.




Yes, it is build by Corey. I'm not sure he is building it now or wait after the move.


----------



## jc9394

Question for HD800 users, how do you wear it? Does it touch your ears? I read it somewhere that said the best soundstage/image is when it touch the back of your ear.


----------



## Silent One

(Non HD800 user) I read as much when I bought my Denon AH-D5000's from Headroom.com a couple of years back.
   
  Correction: the link provided below by MacedonianHero is the same article I read after getting my Denon's. I followed the tip and was rewarded with a fuller sound.


----------



## MacedonianHero

FYI...

http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/

Click on the "Tips and Tricks" tab at the top.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> *danne*'s system, not mine. Looks like a proper audio stand though


 

 Thanks, good thing my hearing is not 'suspect.'


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> FYI...
> 
> http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/
> 
> Click on the "Tips and Tricks" tab at the top.




Thanks, I did tried all the positions possible and the result is wearing lower and more forward sounds the best.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, I did tried all the positions possible and the result is wearing lower and more forward sounds the best.


 

 For me, doing so better captured the lower freqs...


----------



## ImitationOfLife

Dang it, so I've stayed away from this forum for quite a long time and been very happy with my gear. Actually, I still am, but I got the itch. Crap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, I'm still using the stock tubes that came with my Woo Audio 6. Two Sylvanias and a no name Russian tube. I'm considering swapping tubes, although I likely will leave it alone. It does sound good to me.
   
  What tubes have you guys found sound good with the Woo Audio 6/HD650 combo?  I think I might be able to go to the only *good* audio store near me and try some out.
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## jc9394

imitationoflife said:


> Dang it, so I've stayed away from this forum for quite a long time and been very happy with my gear. Actually, I still am, but I got the itch. Crap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I used to love the Treasures (needs adapter) and Mullard GZ34 when I have WA6 with HD600.


----------



## ImitationOfLife

For some reason the name Mullard rings a bell with me. I think I saw people praising it some time back.
   
  I will keep those in mind. Thanks!


----------



## MacedonianHero

As promised...

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/562618/woo-audio-wa2-and-wa22-comparisons-finally-finished-whew#post_7606869


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Question for HD800 users, how do you wear it? Does it touch your ears? I read it somewhere that said the best soundstage/image is when it touch the back of your ear.


 

 I've moved it all over the place, and I never hear any changes in the sound stage.


----------



## Silent One

Sitting in the shadow of Woo ~
   
  In the early morning hours (0200) I found the time to play my newly arrived Digital Audio Disc: Starker Plays Baker (96/24 kHz). It was love at first listen! However, I did experience a bit of disappoint at the end... _that it had to end!_ Good times are like that. 
   
  Although I've had my WA6SE for a year, my D7000's are only a couple of months old with 300+hours on them, making the pairing still young. So, with excitement I continue to revisit tracks in my library as well as search out and buy new material.
   
  I had not previously heard any of the tracks on the disc. I eagerly sat through with anticipation, open mind and curiosity. Surprisingly, the disc barely scratches 40 minutes tops. In the first 10 minutes I found myself paying attention to the amp and cans, wanting them to make me proud. The first half of the disc, Janos Starker is accompanied only by a percussionist. In the second half, only by a pianist.
   
  As I carefully observed the communication between the two artists, I quickly began to trust with each new twists and turns, not knowing what's to come. Their rapport was excellent! It was akin to being cafe side, overhearing an exchange between two good friends. 11 minutes in, I completely forgot about my Woo and Denon's, they disappeared._ That's when you know things are getting good._
   
  It had to be the quickest 40 minutes ever spent under my Denon's. _Only a 40 minute massage could have felt shorter! _As the DVD stopped spinning, I sat there... for another 15 minutes in silence. Ready to go to bed... _or was I?!  _





   
  This evening's post is neither an amp and headphone review or music review. This account was simply about how they all came together for one man in a moment of magic.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, I did tried all the positions possible and the result is wearing lower and more forward sounds the best.


 

 I'm going to have to try it lower and more forward.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I've moved it all over the place, and I never hear any changes in the sound stage.


 

 Could this be due to the Senn's angled drivers?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> FYI...
> 
> http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/
> 
> Click on the "Tips and Tricks" tab at the top.


 

 This was really great, thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sitting in the shadow of Woo ~
> 
> In the early morning hours (0200) I found the time to play my newly arrived Digital Audio Disc: Starker Plays Baker (96/24 kHz). It was love at first listen! However, I did experience a bit of disappoint at the end... _that it had to end!_ Good times are like that.
> 
> ...


 

 I love reading these posts when people have moments were everything comes together like you describe.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Could this be due to the Senn's angled drivers?


 

 Could be what I am listening to also.  Am on ramdom play tonight.  Spent the day listening to Radio Paradise on the BDP-1 while I was ripping CD's during the day.  Listening to my "new" stuff tonight.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Could be what I am listening to also.  Am on ramdom play tonight.  Spent the day listening to Radio Paradise on the BDP-1 while I was ripping CD's during the day.  Listening to my "new" stuff tonight.


 

_What a luxury! Soon, you'll be dreaming sweetly... fondly remembering the last track played._


----------



## danne

Ofcourse it is, its a Woo-stand! 


 Quote:


grokit said:


> *danne*'s system, not mine. Looks like a proper audio stand though


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danne said:


> Ofcourse it is, its a Woo-stand!
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 

 I really like the table, desk or rack that it all sits on. What more can you tell us about it? My Woo deserves to be pampered!


----------



## danne

Its a swedish made rack from a company called Solid Tech.
  The modell I use is a custom (swapped to some shorter shelf distances) Solid Tech Solo 4, the original looks like this:
   


  And here is another picture of it at my place:

   
   
  Could try snap a better rack focused picture some day if you like, the stuff in the shelfs doesnt really show that good in this one.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I really like the table, desk or rack that it all sits on. What more can you tell us about it? My Woo deserves to be pampered!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danne said:


> Its a swedish made rack from a company called Solid Tech.
> The modell I use is a custom (swapped to some shorter shelf distances) Solid Tech Solo 4, the original looks like this:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was searching all night to find the stand and now I have found it but will not going to get one...my wife will kill me if she ever find out how much this cost.  I did get away few time with the WA22 and old light bulbs purchase in the past.
   
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SOSO4


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





danne said:


> Its a swedish made rack from a company called Solid Tech.
> The modell I use is a custom (swapped to some shorter shelf distances) Solid Tech Solo 4, the original looks like this:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What graphic card are you running to get three monitors?


----------



## danne

Its just a single ati radeon 5870, its abit weak for maxed out settings in games since the resolution is 6064x1200 (bezel compensated), but it does work pretty good for what it is.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What graphic card are you running to get three monitors?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





danne said:


> Its just a single ati radeon 5870, its abit weak for maxed out settings in games since the resolution is 6064x1200 (bezel compensated), but it does work pretty good for what it is.


 

 Nice.  Am thinking about moving to three monitors.


----------



## mikemalter

I wanted to take a minute and give a shout out to Kalib at ALO.com.
   
  My call to him yesterday was about purchasing their mini portable DAC.  I saw the Head-fi TV piece that Jude did about a portable setup and as I had been planning to get one, I thought what he presented looked good.  However, he was talking about using the Ray Samuels SR-71B headphone amp with the DAC.
   
  When I got Kalib on the phone, I asked him about the difference between their mini portable headphone amp, he was upfront with me and honestly spoke about what was better on the SR-71B. 
   
  That he would be so honest with me about another vendor's products says volumes about the integrity and honesty of those people over there.  I wanted to share my experiences with them so in the event anyone may be torn between two pieces of gear and unsure of what to do, if the folks at ALO tell you something, they do look out for their customers *first*.


----------



## circlark

Hey grokit. I forgot to say thanks for letting me know about the efficiency issue of HifiMans last week. Thanks much!


----------



## emremusic

> That's very good to know about ALO, thank you. I will keep them in my mind.
> 
> When I got Kalib on the phone, I asked him about the difference between their mini portable headphone amp, he was upfront with me and honestly spoke about what was better on the SR-71B.
> 
> That he would be so honest with me about another vendor's products says volumes about the integrity and honesty of those people over there.  I wanted to share my experiences with them so in the event anyone may be torn between two pieces of gear and unsure of what to do, if the folks at ALO tell you something, they do look out for their customers *first*.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danne said:


> Its just a single ati radeon 5870, its abit weak for maxed out settings in games since the resolution is 6064x1200 (bezel compensated), but it does work pretty good for what it is.


 

 I find the entire ensemble to be stylish; impressive.


----------



## danne

Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I find the entire ensemble to be stylish; impressive.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





danne said:


> Its just a single ati radeon 5870, its abit weak for maxed out settings in games since the resolution is 6064x1200 (bezel compensated), but it does work pretty good for what it is.


 

 Very very nice. Great shot--great angle. Also, it looks like one could get a nice subtle suntan from those three monitors all in a row. Dramamine not included when operating flight simulators or other "in the driver's seat" simulators.


----------



## WarriorAnt

So how is the reliability of the woo products?  As I express my interest in them I sometimes get an occasional PM about troublesome units. More so than any other amps I've expressed interest in.  The PM range from noisy pot to noisy transformers.  So I just thought I'd give the question a whirl here.


----------



## PanamaRed

Never experienced any of those problems with my 22. I can turn the volume up all the way and hear nothing (with no music playing of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Any noise I've had through any of my amps has completely disappeared after I started using a power conditioner.
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So how is the reliability of the woo products?  As I express my interest in them I sometimes get an occasional PM about troublesome units. More so than any other amps I've expressed interest in.  The PM range from noisy pot to noisy transformers.  So I just thought I'd give the question a whirl here.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So how is the reliability of the woo products?  As I express my interest in them I sometimes get an occasional PM about troublesome units. More so than any other amps I've expressed interest in.  The PM range from noisy pot to noisy transformers.  So I just thought I'd give the question a whirl here.


 

 This is a really good question. 
   
  My experiences with reliability have been excellent.  We must remember these are hand build custom amplifiers and so issues will come up that gear built by robots will never have.  The other part of the equation is that Woo customer service is top notch for everything including headphones and even NOS tubes they sell.


----------



## shipsupt

There certainly doesn't seem to be a theme of reliability issues in this thread.... which would seem like a logical place for it.  Interesting to hear that you heard enough comments to be concerned...
   
  I can offer two things towards this conversation:
  1.  My 6SE has been issue free.
  2.  x2 on Mike's comments: IF you had an issue you can assured Woo will stand by their product.  In my direct experience they have awesome customer service.
   
  Looking forward to seeing if some of the "issues" raise their head...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There certainly doesn't seem to be a theme of reliability issues in this thread.... which would seem like a logical place for it.  Interesting to hear that you heard enough comments to be concerned...
> 
> I can offer two things towards this conversation:
> 1.  My 6SE has been issue free.
> ...


 

 This is all good to know. Nearly 30 years as an audiophile I've had my share of good and bad but in todays internet world it's easier to get feedback than it was before the net.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There certainly doesn't seem to be a theme of reliability issues in this thread.... which would seem like a logical place for it.  Interesting to hear that you heard enough comments to be concerned...
> 
> I can offer two things towards this conversation:
> 1.  My 6SE has been issue free.
> ...


 

 That is an understatement, Jack have fixed my WA22 damaged during shipping from over the big pond.


----------



## vinyllp33

WA6 to WA6SE to WA5: All have been extremely reliable, no issues whatsoever. 
   
  All of my amps have been dead silent, no mechanical or self generated noise. 
   
  The overall build quality both inside and out really outclasses many other pieces on the market; many selling for multiple times the price of a Woo Audio. 
   
  And though it has been said I will reiterate: Jack is one of the most stand-up guys in this industry; if any issues do arise he will do what it takes to solve them in a timely and courteous fashion.
   
  Come and join the club!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> WA6 to WA6SE to WA5: All have been extremely reliable, no issues whatsoever.
> 
> All of my amps have been dead silent, no mechanical or self generated noise.
> 
> ...


 


 x4


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> WA6 to WA6SE to WA5: All have been extremely reliable, no issues whatsoever.
> 
> All of my amps have been dead silent, no mechanical or self generated noise.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the reply.   I'm giving the WA2 and the WA22 a consideration.   I'm liking the pre amp function of the WA2 as well as a head amp.   I've got the end of the summer pegged for purchase so I'm looking around.  Price of WA2 is what I'm considering but my wallet has been known to have a mind of its own an the WA22 or APEX/V could put me in a buying trance and then before I know it the FedEx will show up...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Cool...thanks!


 


  Where did you post the comparison Mace~


----------



## MacedonianHero

brucysn said:


> Where did you post the comparison Mace~




http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/562618/woo-audio-wa2-and-wa22-comparisons-finally-finished-whew


----------



## FlyingBear

I was in the London Science Museum last Friday, staring intently at the nice display of tubes in the first picture below. The basement of the museum has a super display of hundreds of household electrical and electronic things, many of which I remember from my childhood, and some, ahem, that I still use.
   
  Then I noticed the little sign at the end of the tube display case....in the second picture below. I make no further comment


----------



## FlyingBear

My Woo WES arrived just after I left the US on a 3.5-week trip. Oh the agony. But now the pain is over and the pleasure has begun. Right out of the box, it and the SR-007s sound wonderful. The DAC-2 seems like a perfect match. I went to the California Audio Show today, though, and heard the DaVinci 384kHz DAC, and it was fabulous. A tad spendy, though.....


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Wow wow wow wow wow. Very nice to look at this Sunday evening. Thanks, FlyingBear. My wallet just hid somewhere. Now where? Here wallet wallet wallet.


----------



## Silent One

Welcome back ~
   
  FlyingBear, I'm sure it would have been a bit more challenging had your entire wait been Stateside. Your safe return home became a win-win! I bet you're already riffling through song samples. Also, WES. Nerd's Case. _Great stuff!_


----------



## FlyingBear

Riffling indeed. What I'm *really* wishing is that I'd borrowed the Nagra VI recorder from my Swiss office that has direct-off-the-mixing-desk captures of great Montreux Jazz Festival concerts. 24 bits and lots of kHz, mostly 88.2 and above. Next trip, maybe....
   
  As so many of you have already experienced, it's wonderful to listen to cherished recordings and hear new (and better) things in them. The instructions for the WES say not to run it for more than 8 hours at a time, though......
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Welcome back ~
> 
> FlyingBear, I'm sure it would have been a bit more challenging had your entire wait been Stateside. Your safe return home became a win-win! I bet you're already riffling through song samples. Also, WES. Nerd's Case. _Great stuff!_


----------



## grokit

Yes that whole desktop kicks some serious ass FB, do you see an SR-009 in your future just to take it straight over the proverbial top?
   
  Nerd's case lol


----------



## FlyingBear

Given the current SR-009 woes (stop ship, some serious problems in the field), I held off. I listened to a pair at Yodobashi Camera in Akihabara a few weeks ago, back-to-back with the SR-007s. Unfortunately, I couldn't use the same amp for both, and the SR-009s had an intermittent channel problem. That turned out to be the same problem that many others are having.
   
  But, even with those issues, and to my relatively unsophisticated ears, the SR-009s had the edge. As they should for the nominal 100% increase in price! Maybe next year, when the bugs are sorted out.
   
  My first and most overriding impression of the SR-007s is that they disappear when I'm listening to the music and doing something else, like typing this posting. I'm only aware of the headphones, versus the music, when I think about it. Interesting. Having spent a day at the California Audio Show, listening to some weird and wonderful stuff (literally....some was weird, some was wonderful), I have a recent memory of some super speaker-based systems. The Magico Q5s and Sony SS-AR1s stand out as particularly good. It's clear that the SR-007s lose out on visceral bass, but win on involvement and imaging. But there's something to be said for a couple of monoblock amps that weigh as much as a pickup truck and speakers that punch you in the gut....
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes that whole desktop kicks some serious ass FB, do you see an SR-009 in your future just to take it straight over the proverbial top?
> 
> Nerd's case lol


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> I was in the London Science Museum last Friday, staring intently at the nice display of tubes in the first picture below. The basement of the museum has a super display of hundreds of household electrical and electronic things, many of which I remember from my childhood, and some, ahem, that I still use.
> 
> Then I noticed the little sign at the end of the tube display case....in the second picture below. I make no further comment


 
  Beautiful!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> My Woo WES arrived just after I left the US on a 3.5-week trip. Oh the agony. But now the pain is over and the pleasure has begun. Right out of the box, it and the SR-007s sound wonderful. The DAC-2 seems like a perfect match. I went to the California Audio Show today, though, and heard the DaVinci 384kHz DAC, and it was fabulous. A tad spendy, though.....


 

 Welcome back FlyingBear.  Glad to hear you have made it back and are enjoying your Woo.  Very nice setup.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Riffling indeed. What I'm *really* wishing is that I'd borrowed the Nagra VI recorder from my Swiss office that has direct-off-the-mixing-desk captures of great Montreux Jazz Festival concerts. 24 bits and lots of kHz, mostly 88.2 and above. Next trip, maybe....
> 
> As so many of you have already experienced, it's wonderful to listen to cherished recordings and hear new (and better) things in them. The instructions for the WES say not to run it for more than 8 hours at a time, though......


 

  
  Prediction: Return with some Montreux Jazz Fest _and Silent One will get vocal over his speeding ticket on the '92!'_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Please keep me posted. And not only did your 8 hour limit come quickly, you looked at the clock twice in hopes there was still time...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Riffling indeed. What I'm *really* wishing is that I'd borrowed the Nagra VI recorder from my Swiss office that has direct-off-the-mixing-desk captures of great Montreux Jazz Festival concerts. 24 bits and lots of kHz, mostly 88.2 and above. Next trip, maybe....
> 
> As so many of you have already experienced, it's wonderful to listen to cherished recordings and hear new (and better) things in them. The instructions for the WES say not to run it for more than 8 hours at a time, though......


 

 The 8 hours max is a Woo standard.  I've never run mine for more than 10 hours (sometimes I'm working longer hours).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The 8 hours max is a Woo standard.  I've never run mine for more than 10 hours (sometimes I'm working longer hours).


 

 I've always wondered why the eight-hour limit (the Woo standardl). I mean, it's not like the amp is going to get any hotter after 8 hours, right?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've always wondered why the eight-hour limit (the Woo standardl). I mean, it's not like the amp is going to get any hotter after 8 hours, right?


 

 My guess is that he does not want to encourage us to use the amp for extended break-in sessions.  This is just a guess.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> My guess is that he does not want to encourage us to use the amp for extended break-in sessions.  This is just a guess.


 


  From where I'm sitting (staring at 12 empty tea tins dreaming about my next upgrade... _"addict!"_), I would suggest two concerns rolled in to one. Some tube combos run the amps hot like the Devil! In addition, 8+ hours would only encourage the amp being left unattended (huge no-no). Many bad things can happen even under one's watch... arcs, sparks and... FIRE (potentially).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From where I'm sitting (staring at 12 empty tea tins dreaming about my next upgrade... _"addict!"_), I would suggest two concerns rolled in to one. Some tube combos run the amps hot like the Devil! In addition, 8+ hours would only encourage the amp being left unattended (huge no-no). Many bad things can happen even under one's watch... arcs, sparks and... FIRE (potentially).


 

 Just when I'm inching closer to glass I see this stuff and back away for awhile!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Just when I'm inching closer to glass I see this stuff and back away for awhile!


 
   
_Wait!_ _It's so safe I'm suspicious... _




   

 SS or Glass, even TV, I cast a wary eye towards when thinking about making a quick 20 minute run to the Goodie Sto' for Haagen-Dazs. Electronic components are a lot like our bodies - can look perfectly healthy yet, something dangerous could be lurking underneath. A new purchase matters little.
   
  I have lived/stayed in a lot of places and seen plenty of homes _Go Up! _Only to learn the Fire Dept found the most simple, the most mudane, the most _"who would have thought?"_ device or reason behind the fires. Oh, I still leave things on occasionally but nuthin' like I use to.
   
  One reason I bought the Pioneer box is there were moments during the day where I could squeeze a listen here and there. But if I couldn't have my Glass on for a one hour minimum, I simply wouldn't listen... period. Now I have the 'shut-off' factor working in my favor during the day and savor the Glass at night. Makes for a better glow anyway...
   
  So, come join our ranks, you'll be fine!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've always wondered why the eight-hour limit (the Woo standardl). I mean, it's not like the amp is going to get any hotter after 8 hours, right?


 

 I have my WA5LE keeping playing for 10hrs sometimes, nothing wrong and sound great.


----------



## zyth3x

What about other companies? is that 8 hour limit standard?
   
  I'm considering a few tube amps and this may very well kill some choices for me as I usually have my gear on all day and late into the night.


----------



## grokit

I can't see it being that big of a deal as long as it's not in continuous use and the tubes and transformers aren't running that hot. My WA22 stays pretty cool (as in lukewarm), and I am usually running two headphones at at a time. The worst thing would be to turn it off and on frequently.
   
  Please take note of all disclaimers below


----------



## Silent One

Woo Audio is wise. And expresses at once enjoyment & safety. Actually, you could set up a pair of small whisper fans to cool your Woo and run it like year-end holiday displays... continuously. It just wouldn't be safe.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zyth3x said:


> What about other companies? is that 8 hour limit standard?
> 
> I'm considering a few tube amps and this may very well kill some choices for me as I usually have my gear on all day and late into the night.


 

 FAQs from Woo Audio
   
​


----------



## Silent One

Since we're discussing electricity, look on the bright side. 10 hours instead of 20 will bring your listening sessions more focus; clarity. Many here in this thread might be accustomed to background music all day/night. Perhaps, a second amp (even an SS) or portable to compliment one's 20 hours days? I agree, music in the air while we work and play all day and night can be nice. But not at the risk of my Woo (or my home).


----------



## jamesnz

10 hours is a long time to be sitting listening. My flatmate once sat playing Xbox for 20 hours straight (1 bathroom brake around 15) so I guess it is possible though.
  Speaking of which.... my 6SE arrived today!!!!
  Oh my word it sounds amazing! (and that's just with the stock tubes...) i got all the other tubes available on the woo site too, so am looking forward to rolling around with it.
   
  Also, even though I've seen pictures, this thing is huge!
   
  Anyone have much experience with the 6se and grado's? I know there seems to be some dislike of them but I've heard (read) good things about them with rock.
  My hd650s will be fine for some time but i have a terrible case of the upgrade disease.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> 10 hours is a long time to be sitting listening. My flatmate once sat playing Xbox for 20 hours straight (1 bathroom brake around 15) so I guess it is possible though.
> Speaking of which.... my 6SE arrived today!!!!
> Oh my word it sounds amazing! (and that's just with the stock tubes...) i got all the other tubes available on the woo site too, so am looking forward to rolling around with it.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome! I was hoping you'd be getting that surprise soon. I had the same experience as you. I saw the photos. Took out the measuring tape. And looked at the audio rack. Once I heaved that heft outta the box my expression changed a bit. So much bigger and badder in person!
   
  Nuthin' wrong with desiring another option this early. It will improve your ability to emotionally connect with your music. Some days/nights it might be just out of reach. Then you realize "ah ha!", and try the other headphones, tubes ect... and suddenly you're finding the magic again. It might also help to take a photo of your wallet. This way, you can cherish the memory of how it once was... _with money inside.  _


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





zyth3x said:


> What about other companies? is that 8 hour limit standard?
> 
> I'm considering a few tube amps and this may very well kill some choices for me as I usually have my gear on all day and late into the night.


 

 I leave my Woo on sometimes as much at 10 at a time with no ill effects.  I have never heard of another company advising a time limit.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Sometimes on the weekends I leave my Leben CS300XS amp on for 10-15 hours. Music from my Leben is on all day when it is powering my Zu Audio speakers. I'm constantly doing things in my apartment so I'm not sitting in one spot all day. Sweet!


----------



## aRRR

From cary audio:
   
  Quote: 





> This brings us to an ongoing debate. Which is better-leaving the product on 24 hours a day or turning it on and off? Both will shorten the life of your tubes. So what should you do? The answer lies somewhere between the two. If you listen faithfully for several hours a day then leave the unit on. You do not want to turn it on and off several times a day. This is worse than leaving it on 24 hours a day. If you listen two or three times a week or just on weekends, turn the unit off when not in use. In this case, allow one hour for warm up time. For the weekend listener, turn the unit on Friday and turn it off Sunday night. This will optimize tube life for your amplifier. Preamplifiers and CD players should stay on all the time. The tube replacement cost for these units is considerably less than amplifiers. Most of our amplifiers have a Standby feature. The Standby is there to pre-warm the tubes before operating. Tubes generally last longer if they have only a few minutes of warm up time.
> 
> Most tubes will last for many years. Some will fail after a short period of time. As more tubes are being manufactured, the quality is excellent and the life is longer.


 
   
   
  http://www.caryaudio.com/support/faq.html#3


----------



## Icenine2

Bear,
   
  Just beautiful!!  The sound must be incredible.
  Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> My Woo WES arrived just after I left the US on a 3.5-week trip. Oh the agony. But now the pain is over and the pleasure has begun. Right out of the box, it and the SR-007s sound wonderful. The DAC-2 seems like a perfect match. I went to the California Audio Show today, though, and heard the DaVinci 384kHz DAC, and it was fabulous. A tad spendy, though.....


----------



## Icenine2

Maybe this has been covered DEPT.  On the Woo website there is now a PDF owners manual for the WA22 (+others)  http://wooaudio.com/manuals/WA22_Owner_Manual.pdf  I don't recall the 150+ hour break-in number before.  But I do tend to forget with all the issues we cover here.  I looked at the WES manual for fun (Geek alert!!!)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





arrr said:


> From cary audio:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.caryaudio.com/support/faq.html#3


 

 All Day ~
   
  My own Woo Audio WA 6 _Special Edition_ amp could breeze through Cary Audio's operating guidelines and practices All Day. Proving one point and missing another. It's not about what an amp can or cannot do. My amp uses 6SN7 tubes w/adapters and would never match the warmth of a delicate green tea. Which is never steeped beyond warm to begin with - yeah, my amp's operating temp is that good! 
   
  Wanna see 168 consecutive hours? Backed by your S.E.T., I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I'd want something to play with in the event I failed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Rather, this is about a manufacturer (Woo Audio) recommending users be prudent due to safety concerns.
   
  Tea, anyone?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> 10 hours is a long time to be sitting listening.


 


  Sure is.  Imagine editing audio and TV for 10-12-14 -16 hours a day.  By the end of the day you're shell shocked just front he rewind sound alone.


----------



## WarriorAnt

>


 

 You have to come over to my hovel and show me the secret of hiding all the power cords!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Sure is.  Imagine editing audio and TV for 10-12-14 -16 hours a day.  By the end of the day you're shell shocked just front he rewind sound alone.


 

 Work ethic ~
   
  Behind the glamour, I don't think the general population understands the hard work and dedication needed to succeed in the industry in various capacities. I've been in and around studios a lot. And have nuthin' but admiration for what you do, WarriorAnt. Also, as a courtesy, I started listing my Sony Portable sans model name when posting.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Sure is.  Imagine editing audio and TV for 10-12-14 -16 hours a day.  By the end of the day you're shell shocked just front he rewind sound alone.


 

 WA, I know what you mean, but only partially.  Before switching to computers, I worked in broadcast journalism for 9 years and did all of my own editing.  Eventually stopped watching TV and didn't even have a phone that would ring.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> WA, I know what you mean, but only partially.  Before switching to computers, I worked in broadcast journalism for 9 years and did all of my own editing.  Eventually stopped watching TV and didn't even have a phone that would ring.


 

 My current state of affairs ~
   
  In the kitchen making noise with the pots & pans. Awaiting any kind of audio related news still-to-come... (Big country kool-aid grin)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> WA, I know what you mean, but only partially.  Before switching to computers, I worked in broadcast journalism for 9 years and did all of my own editing.  Eventually stopped watching TV and didn't even have a phone that would ring.


 

 I stopped editing in 2004 after 25 years of doing it.  I had just started a session for a show to air on OLN, now VERSUS.  I looked around the room and realized 25 years was enough. So I got up to take a piss and simply went home instead. Never to return again. I didn't tell anyone. I just went home.  I still have nightmares of sitting in the editing suites with clients all around me bickering and changing their minds every few seconds while I fast forward and rewind all the tapes over and over and over trying to get control of the video and the sound.  Then in my nightmare I simply get up and go home and then wake up, cursing under my breath.
   
  But I know what you mean about not watching TV.  For about 15 years I pretty much stopped watching TV at home because it was sort of perverse to edit TV shows for endless hours at work and then go home and sit in front of the cathode tube again. Instead I went home turned off the lights and sat in front of my big speaker rigs cleansing myself of all the timecode, drop frame and non drop frame,  that tortured me for most of the day and part of the evening.
   
  But now I watch TV. I'm catching up on all the great series I missed and never got to see.  6 ft under. The Wire, West Wing.   ROME!   The list is endless.


----------



## shipsupt

I'm not sure what method flying bear used, but a simple one is to secure the power cords neatly on the underside of the back of the desk.  You can even secure a power strip up there so that you only get one single power cord dropping down to an outlet.  Always looks better than trying to keep things neat on the ground because from the normal viewing position they are invisible back there...
   
  Unless you are laying on the floor looking up.... which only happens a few days a year to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You have to come over to my hovel and show me the secret of hiding all the power cords!


----------



## FlyingBear

Ah, you have divined my guilty OCD secret: I hate exposed cabling, unless it's nice-looking thick-as-your-arm power cords in a home theater, or various pretty interconnects.
   
  It's fairly close to what shipsupt stated: The desk is a built-in, constructed on an overengineered but very sturdy rectangular steel girder framework. Some heavy-duty cable ties wrapped around the girders hold a veritable wonderland of cables, power strips, wall warts and a GigE switch. You can indeed see it when you're laying on the floor, and it took a few hours of doing that to build all the wiring looms and harnesses, but it was worth it. The only thing that I wish I'd done differently is to have the multi-outlet Cat 6e/fiber/coax outlets in the house closer up underneath working surfaces, so that you can't see them. You can see one in the picture you attached on the wall beneath the 24" LCD monitor (yeah, that's a 24"....those 30" monsters next to it make everything else look small, even the larger-than-life WES). My blood pressure goes up a little every time I see the outlet, and I wish it was one foot higher. OCD is a curse....
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WarriorAnt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You have to come over to my hovel and show me the secret of hiding all the power cords!


----------



## bergnerm

It's wayyyyy too neat--they all must be cardboard props!
   
  Seriously, I'm as impressed with the tidiness of your listening area as I am with the electronics. I hope that was just for the camera 
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You have to come over to my hovel and show me the secret of hiding all the power cords!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I'm not sure what method flying bear used, but a simple one is to secure the power cords neatly on the underside of the back of the desk.  You can even secure a power strip up there so that you only get one single power cord dropping down to an outlet.  Always looks better than trying to keep things neat on the ground because from the normal viewing position they are invisible back there...
> 
> Unless you are laying on the floor looking up.... which only happens a few days a year to me


 
  Whatever the technique I can never seem to get it right.
  
   
  Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Ah, you have divined my guilty OCD secret: I hate exposed cabling, unless it's nice-looking thick-as-your-arm power cords in a home theater, or various pretty interconnects.
> 
> It's fairly close to what shipsupt stated: The desk is a built-in, constructed on an overengineered but very sturdy rectangular steel girder framework. Some heavy-duty cable ties wrapped around the girders hold a veritable wonderland of cables, power strips, wall warts and a GigE switch. You can indeed see it when you're laying on the floor, and it took a few hours of doing that to build all the wiring looms and harnesses, but it was worth it. The only thing that I wish I'd done differently is to have the multi-outlet Cat 6e/fiber/coax outlets in the house closer up underneath working surfaces, so that you can't see them. You can see one in the picture you attached on the wall beneath the 24" LCD monitor (yeah, that's a 24"....those 30" monsters next to it make everything else look small, even the larger-than-life WES). My blood pressure goes up a little every time I see the outlet, and I wish it was one foot higher. OCD is a curse....


----------



## FlyingBear

Ummm, no. OCD. And I travel all the time and work out of San Francisco, Mountain View, Lausanne, Beijing, Tokyo, etc. So I'm paperless.....paper is too heavy to lug around.

  
  Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> It's wayyyyy too neat--they all must be cardboard props!
> 
> Seriously, I'm as impressed with the tidiness of your listening area as I am with the electronics. I hope that was just for the camera


----------



## Xcalibur255

I never did thank you, Silent One, for your kind words.  It took a little while, but I think I've found the emotional connection again.  I'm slowly learning to not question why when it happens either.   
   
  Now, if only the new machine supplying the music would stop acting up I'll be all set.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Ummm, no. OCD. And I travel all the time and work out of San Francisco, Mountain View, Lausanne, Beijing, Tokyo, etc. So I'm paperless.....paper is too heavy to lug around.


 

 What do you do for music when traveling?


----------



## FlyingBear

When I'm on the road, iPod/iPhone/iPad/Macbook with ALAC CD rips->iTunes/Pure Music->Headroom Total BitHead->Etymotic/Klipsch IEMs. The Total BitHead is the limiting factor here, so I'm thinking about other small portable amps. I fly 250k miles a year and never check luggage, so size and weight are really important.
   
  When I'm in Switzerland, I have evening/weekend access to our company's main listening room, which is about the highest-end speaker-based system you can imagine, so that's a real treat. The problem now is that I want Verity Audio Lohengrin speakers at home, and they're quite pricey at $80k.....never mind the $100k or so in source/preamps/amps. The good news is that a headphone system for less than a tenth the price sounds almost as good, and better in some cases.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What do you do for music when traveling?


----------



## realmassy

Hi all,
  happy WA3 owner here. Anyone tried this amp with the Chroma MD1?
  I've got the opportunity to buy it second-hand, but will the amp be up to it? Impedance is 60ohm, sensitivity is 103db.
  I've used the WA3 with some K702 and I liked what I heard...
  I really don't want to upgrade my amp right now


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> When I'm on the road, iPod/iPhone/iPad/Macbook with ALAC CD rips->iTunes/Pure Music->Headroom Total BitHead->Etymotic/Klipsch IEMs. The Total BitHead is the limiting factor here, so I'm thinking about other small portable amps. I fly 250k miles a year and never check luggage, so size and weight are really important.
> 
> When I'm in Switzerland, I have evening/weekend access to our company's main listening room, which is about the highest-end speaker-based system you can imagine, so that's a real treat. The problem now is that I want Verity Audio Lohengrin speakers at home, and they're quite pricey at $80k.....never mind the $100k or so in source/preamps/amps. The good news is that a headphone system for less than a tenth the price sounds almost as good, and better in some cases.


 

 I'm putting together a travel system with the AlgoRhythm Solo/Ray Samuels SR71-Balanced/iPod/HD800.
   
  The Solo is a digital transport for the iPod and it has a DAC.  It's feeding the SR-71B which is a balanced headphone amp.  I haven't taken delivery of the SR-71B yet, but playing the Solo in my main system I am impressed by how spooky good it is.  the SR-71B should be here tomorrow.
   
  This link is to the head-fi tv piece Jude did on the paring: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/548529/head-fi-tv-episode-003-cypher-labs-algorhythm-solo-a-game-changer.
   
  I am with you on the economy of scale for headphone systems.  You can get the best for about a 10th of the cost of a full-sized system.  How are you liking your new Woo?  Is it living up to your expectations?  How far into breakin are you?


----------



## FlyingBear

That would be a sweet system for use on the road. The size would make it impractical for me, sadly. I only take carry-on, and have the misfortune to often route through London Heathrow, where they take a perverse and palpable delight in confiscating regular US-sized carryons; the Heathrow limits are a few inches less than, um, those in the civilized world. Even with US-sized carryons, the HD800s would be too big to cart around. A pity.
   
  The Woo WES, and the Wyred4Sound DAC-2, and the Stax SR-007s, are all new. So I'm early in the break-in for all of them. I've noticed, not surprisingly, that they demand high-quality source material. For the most part, I've been really enjoying the sound, but have not yet been blown away by it. Then I listened last night to a Chesky sampler disk. OMG. The sound absolutely blew my socks off. I think it's partly because the recordings are so good, partly because I'm getting used to the new setup, and partly because the most dramatic improvements in break-in take place in the early stages. With about 20 hours on the system, it's beginning to really impress me. Absolutely magical and thrilling, and truly joyful. I'm so glad I took the plunge. I took the easy way, and I know it: instead of slowly upgrading, I dove into the world of high-end headphone audio starting at the top (if you don't count my Hifiman EF2A and HD650s). I didn't pay my dues, or experience the long learning curve, and so I'm not appreciating this as much as someone who did it the slower way. But I'm still grateful and appreciating it a lot.
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm putting together a travel system with the AlgoRhythm Solo/Ray Samuels SR71-Balanced/iPod/HD800.
> 
> The Solo is a digital transport for the iPod and it has a DAC.  It's feeding the SR-71B which is a balanced headphone amp.  I haven't taken delivery of the SR-71B yet, but playing the Solo in my main system I am impressed by how spooky good it is.  the SR-71B should be here tomorrow.
> 
> ...


----------



## jamesnz

Wouldn't it be cool to have a mini woo amp for just an occasion?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> That would be a sweet system for use on the road. The size would make it impractical for me, sadly. I only take carry-on, and have the misfortune to often route through London Heathrow, where they take a perverse and palpable delight in confiscating regular US-sized carryons; the Heathrow limits are a few inches less than, um, those in the civilized world. Even with US-sized carryons, the HD800s would be too big to cart around. A pity.
> 
> The Woo WES, and the Wyred4Sound DAC-2, and the Stax SR-007s, are all new. So I'm early in the break-in for all of them. I've noticed, not surprisingly, that they demand high-quality source material. For the most part, I've been really enjoying the sound, but have not yet been blown away by it. Then I listened last night to a Chesky sampler disk. OMG. The sound absolutely blew my socks off. I think it's partly because the recordings are so good, partly because I'm getting used to the new setup, and partly because the most dramatic improvements in break-in take place in the early stages. With about 20 hours on the system, it's beginning to really impress me. Absolutely magical and thrilling, and truly joyful. I'm so glad I took the plunge. I took the easy way, and I know it: instead of slowly upgrading, I dove into the world of high-end headphone audio starting at the top (if you don't count my Hifiman EF2A and HD650s). I didn't pay my dues, or experience the long learning curve, and so I'm not appreciating this as much as someone who did it the slower way. But I'm still grateful and appreciating it a lot.


 

 Do keep us updated, we're passengers on this flight. 20 hours on the system? Seems you may have left a '0' behind in the hangar. 200 hours minimum will get you to the dance. 500 hours on the system will get you on the dance floor. 700+ will get you another invite! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And you're absolutely dead-on about using high quality source material. With each passing upgrade, my music library sees a few deletions...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> That would be a sweet system for use on the road. The size would make it impractical for me, sadly. I only take carry-on, and have the misfortune to often route through London Heathrow, where they take a perverse and palpable delight in confiscating regular US-sized carryons; the Heathrow limits are a few inches less than, um, those in the civilized world. Even with US-sized carryons, the HD800s would be too big to cart around. A pity.
> 
> The Woo WES, and the Wyred4Sound DAC-2, and the Stax SR-007s, are all new. So I'm early in the break-in for all of them. I've noticed, not surprisingly, that they demand high-quality source material. For the most part, I've been really enjoying the sound, but have not yet been blown away by it. Then I listened last night to a Chesky sampler disk. OMG. The sound absolutely blew my socks off. I think it's partly because the recordings are so good, partly because I'm getting used to the new setup, and partly because the most dramatic improvements in break-in take place in the early stages. With about 20 hours on the system, it's beginning to really impress me. Absolutely magical and thrilling, and truly joyful. I'm so glad I took the plunge. I took the easy way, and I know it: instead of slowly upgrading, I dove into the world of high-end headphone audio starting at the top (if you don't count my Hifiman EF2A and HD650s). I didn't pay my dues, or experience the long learning curve, and so I'm not appreciating this as much as someone who did it the slower way. But I'm still grateful and appreciating it a lot.


 

 I find it to be true as well that source material is the double edged sword of hi-rez listening.  As for time, 20 hours is scratching the surface.  Your DAC alone will shift around dramatically for the first 100 hours and then will get more clear and loose its harshness till about 200 hours.  The difference between 20 hours and 200 hours is night and day on the DAC alone.  I think about 200 hours in and the system will really start to sound like it should.


----------



## shipsupt

jamesnz said:


> Wouldn't it be cool to have a mini woo amp for just an occasion?




The tube guy in me is certainly watching for impressions of the ALO Continental!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> The tube guy in me is certainly watching for impressions of the ALO Continental!


 

 Interesting...
   
  - Silent One (_& Team Raytheon_)


----------



## WarriorAnt

WA2 question.  I set a budget ceiling of 1K for a tube amp and the WA2 fits in there, not counting the cost of tube rolling.
   
  I have an idea of what I want in a tube amp and am wondering if the WA2 has those qualities.  I'm looking for the cliche "tube" sound and presentation in a tube amp.  Classic tube euphonics is ok.  I want that 3D liquid roundish sound.  The lush tube midrange magic. A sound that definitely is tubes and not something that can be compared to or said to be nearing the solid state domain.  midrange liquid magic.  I know some of this will vary according to what tubes will be rolled in and out of the WA2 but in general I'm looking for this sort of experience. I'm wondering if the WA2 fits the bill and if it will pair with my LCD-2's.


----------



## shipsupt

I guess a link would help...
   
http://aloaudio.com/alo-audio-the-continental-mobile-vacuum-tube-amplifier.html
   
  There is of course a thread floating out here on it already.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Interesting...
> 
> - Silent One (_&Team Raytheon_)


 


   


  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I guess a link would help...
> 
> http://aloaudio.com/alo-audio-the-continental-mobile-vacuum-tube-amplifier.html
> 
> There is of course a thread floating out here on it already.


 
   




  Yes. That should explain my typing "(& Team Raytheon...)" Thanks for making sure I got there, though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> WA2 question.  I set a budget ceiling of 1K for a tube amp and the WA2 fits in there, not counting the cost of tube rolling.
> 
> I have an idea of what I want in a tube amp and am wondering if the WA2 has those qualities.  I'm looking for the cliche "tube" sound and presentation in a tube amp.  Classic tube euphonics is ok.  I want that 3D liquid roundish sound.  The lush tube midrange magic. A sound that definitely is tubes and not something that can be compared to or said to be nearing the solid state domain.  midrange liquid magic.  I know some of this will vary according to what tubes will be rolled in and out of the WA2 but in general I'm looking for this sort of experience. I'm wondering if the WA2 fits the bill and if it will pair with my LCD-2's.


 

 Didn't MacedonianHero just post an in-depth review on WA2 & WA22 w/LCD-2's; T-1's HD800's? I could be mistaken, as I'm a bit hot & tired...
  Yes, I just found it. Maybe he could shed some light on the WA2/LCD-2 for you; answer some additional questions...
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/562618/woo-audio-wa2-and-wa22-comparisons-finally-finished-whew


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> WA2 question.  I set a budget ceiling of 1K for a tube amp and the WA2 fits in there, not counting the cost of tube rolling.
> 
> I have an idea of what I want in a tube amp and am wondering if the WA2 has those qualities.  I'm looking for the cliche "tube" sound and presentation in a tube amp.  Classic tube euphonics is ok.  I want that 3D liquid roundish sound.  The lush tube midrange magic. A sound that definitely is tubes and not something that can be compared to or said to be nearing the solid state domain.  midrange liquid magic.  I know some of this will vary according to what tubes will be rolled in and out of the WA2 but in general I'm looking for this sort of experience. I'm wondering if the WA2 fits the bill and if it will pair with my LCD-2's.


 
   
  Great question. IMO, the WA2 offers the closest thing I've found to the "classic tube euphonic" presentation while still being able to push relatively difficult cans like the LCD-2. Other more euphonic amps I've tried include the Mapletree Ear+ HD (not enough power for the LCD-2), Mapletree Super II (better with the LCD-2, but still not in the WA2's league, and slightly less tube-like than the Ear+ HD), and the Opera Consonance Cyber 20 (sold long before I got the LCD-2s, but not a remarkably powerful amp). By comparison, the Schiit Lyr has, IMO, a much more SS-like sound signature, though I admittedly only rolled three or four pairs of mid-quality tubes into the Lyr while I owned it.
   
  Outfitted with proper tubes (my favorites for tube warmth are WE421a/Tung-Sol 5998), the WA2 certainly exhibits what I'd consider to be "that 3D liquid roundish sound." I don't think you'd be disappointed.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> When I'm on the road, iPod/iPhone/iPad/Macbook with ALAC CD rips->iTunes/Pure Music->Headroom Total BitHead->Etymotic/Klipsch IEMs. The Total BitHead is the limiting factor here, so I'm thinking about other small portable amps. I fly 250k miles a year and never check luggage, so size and weight are really important.
> 
> When I'm in Switzerland, I have evening/weekend access to our company's main listening room, which is about the highest-end speaker-based system you can imagine, so that's a real treat. The problem now is that I want Verity Audio Lohengrin speakers at home, and they're quite pricey at $80k.....never mind the $100k or so in source/preamps/amps. The good news is that a headphone system for less than a tenth the price sounds almost as good, and better in some cases.


 

 I don't travel as much as you do but take a look at iPod Nano/Pico Slim/JH13 or JH16, it is the best travel system I tried.  I did tried to go with the Solo/balanced amp/JH13 but they are too bulky (especially at Heathrow, the last thing you want is they confiscate it) when you only have carry on.  Most of the time when you are on the transit, it is too noisy to enjoy music with non noise isolation IEM.
   
  My travel rig


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Great question. IMO, the WA2 offers the closest thing I've found to the "classic tube euphonic" presentation while still being able to push relatively difficult cans like the LCD-2. Other more euphonic amps I've tried include the Mapletree Ear+ HD (not enough power for the LCD-2), Mapletree Super II (better with the LCD-2, but still not in the WA2's league, and slightly less tube-like than the Ear+ HD), and the Opera Consonance Cyber 20 (sold long before I got the LCD-2s, but not a remarkably powerful amp). By comparison, the Schiit Lyr has, IMO, a much more SS-like sound signature, though I admittedly only rolled three or four pairs of mid-quality tubes into the Lyr while I owned it.
> 
> Outfitted with proper tubes (my favorites for tube warmth are WE421a/Tung-Sol 5998), the WA2 certainly exhibits what I'd consider to be "that 3D liquid roundish sound." I don't think you'd be disappointed.


 
  Thanks,  I'm closer.  Can't wait for summers end...
   
  On the used market is there a revision history for the WA2 or have they been pretty much the same.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Thanks,  I'm closer.  Can't wait for summers end...
> 
> On the used market is there a revision history for the WA2 or have they been pretty much the same.


 

 I know there have been different iterations of the WA2 over the years... in fact, one of the sub-headlines on Jack's home page right now reads: "The latest WA2 offers greater driving power for headphone and preamp outputs." This implies that there are lesser-powered versions out there. I'd imagine Jack could provide detailed information, along with serial numbers related to changes in design.
   
  My WA2 has the now-unavailable premium parts upgrades -- I can't say how much upgrades like Black Gate caps and the like add, as it's the only WA2 I've ever heard, but I do very much like the stepped attenuator.
   
  Ben


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Thanks,  I'm closer.  Can't wait for summers end...
> On the used market is there a revision history for the WA2 or have they been pretty much the same.


 

 The early WA2 used a 6x4 rectifier and the current WA2 uses the EZ80 or EZ81 (6V4 or 6CA4 rectifier). Also the earlier WA2's volume knob is on the left when facing the faceplate; current WA2's volume knob is on the right. Here are photos of my WA2 purchased in early 2010 which uses the EZ80 rectifier. I've only heard my WA2.
   
  The black WA2 internals is from Woo Audio's website (presumably stock) -- The silver WA2 internals (with Black Gate upgrades and stepped attenuator upgrade) is my WA2 from 2010:


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Great question. IMO, the WA2 offers the closest thing I've found to the "classic tube euphonic" presentation while still being able to push relatively difficult cans like the LCD-2.  (snip)
> 
> Outfitted with proper tubes (my favorites for tube warmth are WE421a/Tung-Sol 5998), the WA2 certainly exhibits what I'd consider to be "that 3D liquid roundish sound." I don't think you'd be disappointed.


 


  I agree 100% with that.  If anything the WA22 is a little tubier, but it's out of your price range, and overkill anyway unless you plan to go balanced.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The early WA2 used a 6x4 rectifier and the current WA2 uses the EZ80 or EZ81 (6V4 or 6CA4 rectifier). Also the earlier WA2's volume knob is on the left when facing the faceplate; current WA2's volume knob is on the right. Here are photos of my WA2 purchased in early 2010 which uses the EZ80 rectifier. I've only heard my WA2.
> 
> The black WA2 internals is from Woo Audio's website (presumably stock) -- The silver WA2 internals (with Black Gate upgrades and stepped attenuator upgrade) is my WA2 from 2010:


 
  That is an interesting change in the bottom circuit from 2 to 4 caps. I'm assuming that is the resistor/ cap improvement in the rectifier circuitry (unless in the left photo there are two caps hidden under the board).   Thanks for posting that.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I know there have been different iterations of the WA2 over the years... in fact, one of the sub-headlines on Jack's home page right now reads: "The latest WA2 offers greater driving power for headphone and preamp outputs." This implies that there are lesser-powered versions out there. I'd imagine Jack could provide detailed information, along with serial numbers related to changes in design.
> 
> My WA2 has the now-unavailable premium parts upgrades -- I can't say how much upgrades like Black Gate caps and the like add, as it's the only WA2 I've ever heard, but I do very much like the stepped attenuator.
> 
> Ben


 

 I'm a big believer in quality caps.  Do the black Gates come standard now?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I don't travel as much as you do but take a look at iPod Nano/Pico Slim/JH13 or JH16, it is the best travel system I tried.  I did tried to go with the Solo/balanced amp/JH13 but they are too bulky (especially at Heathrow, the last thing you want is they confiscate it) when you only have carry on.  Most of the time when you are on the transit, it is too noisy to enjoy music with non noise isolation IEM.
> 
> My travel rig


 

 JC, your rig looks really nice.  How do you like the moulded headphones?  How do they compare to the HD800's?
   
  This Heathrow thing has me worried.  Do they really confiscate audio gear?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Interesting...
> 
> - Silent One (_& Team Raytheon_)


 

 Did you change your picture?  I really like the new one.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> JC, your rig looks really nice.  How do you like the moulded headphones?  How do they compare to the HD800's?
> 
> This Heathrow thing has me worried.  Do they really confiscate audio gear?


 

 They don't unless you have all the home made cables hanging around and exposed circuit board. 
   
  JH13 is not as natural and airy as HD800 but it is as close as you can get.  Once you have seal in your ear, you will be surprise how good they are.  It is much more fun than HD800 and I do use it on my WA22 all the time if I want to block out noise when I work from home.


----------



## shipsupt

I've travel through Heathrow extensively, and worldwide for that matter.  I've carried plenty of electronics, portable rigs, exposed circuit boards, and lots of cables dangling around...  The only thing I've ever had to do is play music or operate the electronics for airport security.  I've never seen confiscation of legitimate gear of any kind.  
   
  Follow the rules, be patient and courteous, and airport security is a breeze.  Lines etc... can be frustrating, especially in a big airport like Heathrow, but there is a lot of hype out there generated by the media that makes travelers unnecessarily nervous.
   
  That's my experience anyway... Ymmv...
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They don't unless you have all the home made cables hanging around and exposed circuit board.
> 
> JH13 is not as natural and airy as HD800 but it is as close as you can get.  Once you have seal in your ear, you will be surprise how good they are.  It is much more fun than HD800 and I do use it on my WA22 all the time if I want to block out noise when I work from home.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I've travel through Heathrow extensively, and worldwide for that matter.  I've carried plenty of electronics, portable rigs, exposed circuit boards, and lots of cables dangling around...  The only thing I've ever had to do is play music or operate the electronics for airport security.  I've never seen confiscation of legitimate gear of any kind.
> 
> Follow the rules, be patient and courteous, and airport security is a breeze.  Lines etc... can be frustrating, especially in a big airport like Heathrow, but there is a lot of hype out there generated by the media that makes travelers unnecessarily nervous.
> 
> That's my experience anyway... Ymmv...


 

 I went through Heathrow once just before 9/11 and one of the agents profiled me.  I didn't realize what he was doing at the time, but later when I heard about profiling I realized that his direct and sudden change of conversation and tone to ask me what I was doing there stressed me and I felt kind of goofy the way I reacted.  I think that they are trained in pushing your buttons a bit to see how you react to determine the need for further screening.
   
  Glad to know that I don't have to worry about audio gear.  Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I've travel through Heathrow extensively, and worldwide for that matter.  I've carried plenty of electronics, portable rigs, exposed circuit boards, and lots of cables dangling around...  The only thing I've ever had to do is play music or operate the electronics for airport security.  I've never seen confiscation of legitimate gear of any kind.
> 
> Follow the rules, be patient and courteous, and airport security is a breeze.  Lines etc... can be frustrating, especially in a big airport like Heathrow, but there is a lot of hype out there generated by the media that makes travelers unnecessarily nervous.
> 
> That's my experience anyway... Ymmv...


 
   
  I am leaving for The Netherlands in about 3 weeks. I want to show my Dutch friends my Woo. I wonder if I can tuck a WA6 under my arm and breeze through security if I tell them what it is and show them Jack's manual.


----------



## caracara08

i decided to go with a ZD SE instead of a WA22 for mainly 2 reasons. 1. id have to upgrade my source/cables and didnt have it in my budget. 2. the ZD was a great deal.   anyone hear both and have any thoughts?  driving a T1.


----------



## shipsupt

IMHO, as long as they can inspect it closely they will have no problem with you carrying it.  
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am leaving for The Netherlands in about 3 weeks. I want to show my Dutch friends my Woo. I wonder if I can tuck a WA6 under my arm and breeze through security if I tell them what it is and show them Jack's manual.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am leaving for The Netherlands in about 3 weeks. I want to show my Dutch friends my Woo. I wonder if I can tuck a WA6 under my arm and breeze through security if I tell them what it is and show them Jack's manual.


 

 Yes, tuck it under your arm.  I'm sure it will be no problem at all.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes, tuck it under your arm.  I'm sure it will be no problem at all.


 

 LOL. (Well, Mr. TSA Person. This device. Why yes. With this device I can hear voices. Right, right--voices; and sometimes music, too.)


----------



## emremusic

I traveled with my Woo6SE from USA to Turkey. Jack advised me to not check it in, but take it as a carry on. I used the hard styrofoam packaging it came with and I put it in my carry on luggage- it barely fit. They made me open the luggage in Heathrow. they just glanced at it for a second and that was it, no problems... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am leaving for The Netherlands in about 3 weeks. I want to show my Dutch friends my Woo. I wonder if I can tuck a WA6 under my arm and breeze through security if I tell them what it is and show them Jack's manual.


----------



## Silent One

Today's chat about air travel/security reminds me of something I've long been curious about: Listening levels. Not of the volume variety but of altitude. Perhaps, our Colorado members can jump in, as well as those who have attended RMAF. 
   
  I'm wondering if any of our members once lived at sea level, then moved to high altitude or vice versa and noticed a difference in their listening experience after a month or two. Was the listening experience heightened or lessened by high altitude?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Today's chat about air travel/security reminds me of something I've long been curious about: Listening levels. Not of the volume variety but of altitude. Perhaps, our Colorado members can jump in, as well as those who have attended RMAF.
> 
> I'm wondering if any of our members once lived at sea level, then moved to high altitude or vice versa and noticed a difference in their listening experience after a month or two. Was the listening experience heightened or lessened by high altitude?


 

 Which reminds me. Following your lead, I have decided to make an appointment with an Audiologist. My appointment is 5 days before I leave for Europe. I hope it doesn't hurt.


----------



## FlyingBear

I travel to or through Heathrow every month. There are two Heathrows IMHO: Terminal 5 (BA's dedicated terminal) and the rest. T5 was designed from the outset to be an overpriced mall with runways attached, and so there's plenty of room to move and everything works pretty well. The other terminals have slowly filled up with the aforementioned overpriced stores, leaving little room to move or sit. The BA lounges are excellent: the business class/moderate-godhood frequent flyer lounge is spacious with good food and a substance otherwise unknown in the UK: free wi-fi. The "fake" first class lounge, which is really for higher-godhood frequent flyers has even better food and lots of space. The real first class lounge takes high-quality sucking up to a whole new level of excellence. Going through T5 requires some patience with long security lines, but I've never had a problem and the people are pleasant.
   
  The rest of Heathrow is third world. Parts of it make the international terminal at LAX look modern. The United lounge does have excellent onion bhaji, though.....
   
  The only issue pervasive with Heathrow is that their carryon size limits are smaller than the rest of the world's. I have a really silly little Heathrow-compatible roller bag that looks as if would hold the proverbial toothbrush and condom, and not much else. Oh, and if a single drop of moisture or snow falls anywhere in the UK, Heathrow closes down.
   
  The only problem I can envisage with taking a Woo amp on board is that it's a pretty hefty piece of equipment, and could be construed as a potential weapon. I had a microphone stand base (a relatively small one) confiscated by the TSA at LAX once for that reason.
   
  Travel sucks, by the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I went through Heathrow once just before 9/11 and one of the agents profiled me.  I didn't realize what he was doing at the time, but later when I heard about profiling I realized that his direct and sudden change of conversation and tone to ask me what I was doing there stressed me and I felt kind of goofy the way I reacted.  I think that they are trained in pushing your buttons a bit to see how you react to determine the need for further screening.
> 
> Glad to know that I don't have to worry about audio gear.  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Which reminds me. Following your lead, I have decided to make an appointment with an Audiologist. My appointment is 5 days before I leave for Europe. I hope it doesn't hurt.


 

 Great news! Typically, I make my annual visit between March & May. This year? W-a-a-a-y  late! (Silent One begins to write in hushed tones... realizing the money reserved for the audiologist went instead to upgrades) I hope to get it done early autumn (Sep/Oct).
   
  I actually tried to get a few of us together for a joint trip to an audiologist earlier this spring. I had targeted Berkeley or S.F., so the 4-6 of us could hang for pizza & drink or something afterwards with the discount from the Doc I would have secured. Amazingly, I was treated as if I as trying to bring a dental office new business -_ rebuffed!_
   
  Personally, I have never had problems with my hearing... and that's exactly why I went, early and often. I saw it as a lifestyle choice. Like many other things we get done in L.A.. I also use to see the Chiro once a month to get realigned from Office activities; the post session massage in Rolling Hills were to die for!
   
  These were just a few of the things we Brokers got pampered with. Luxury aside, they are all important health services.


----------



## Clayton SF

What?


----------



## PanamaRed

I have several hard cases from pelican : http://www.pelican.com/
   
  You can get them with the little foam inserts that you can customize to fit your gear into. A must have for dealing with those glorious individuals that like to cram their multiple carry-ons into your compartment.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I have several hard cases from pelican : http://www.pelican.com/
> 
> You can get them with the little foam inserts that you can customize to fit your gear into. A must have for dealing with those glorious individuals that like to cram their multiple carry-ons into your compartment.


 


  Absolutely love those cases! I could find uses for every single model!!!


----------



## MacedonianHero

olias of sunhillow said:


> I know there have been different iterations of the WA2 over the years... in fact, one of the sub-headlines on Jack's home page right now reads: "The latest WA2 offers greater driving power for headphone and preamp outputs." This implies that there are lesser-powered versions out there. I'd imagine Jack could provide detailed information, along with serial numbers related to changes in design.
> 
> My WA2 has the now-unavailable premium parts upgrades -- I can't say how much upgrades like Black Gate caps and the like add, as it's the only WA2 I've ever heard, but I do very much like the stepped attenuator.
> 
> Ben




Absolutely correct Ben...here's a comment by Jack from Woo regarding how the newer WA2 is better for driving lower impedance headphones:

"It is due to several reasons. One thing is that the power tube section is
paralleled, giving more power output."

The other thing to consider with orthos, is damping factor is not as important as with dynamic headphones due to how the drivers are made and work (see kwkarth for a much more thorough explanation).


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The early WA2 used a 6x4 rectifier and the current WA2 uses the EZ80 or EZ81 (6V4 or 6CA4 rectifier). Also the earlier WA2's volume knob is on the left when facing the faceplate; current WA2's volume knob is on the right.


 

 Thanks for this info, Clayton. I'd totally forgotten that early WA2s used 6x4 rectifiers. That's a very easy way to tell the difference.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm a big believer in quality caps.  Do the black Gates come standard now?


 


  I don't believe so... the Black Gates were available as a premium parts upgrade, which has since entirely disappeared (AFAIK) from Jack's site. Then again, Woo Audio offers lots of goodies that aren't specifically mentioned on the site, so an email to Jack clarifying the availability of upgraded caps might be in order before you decide to buy.


----------



## zeluiz

Hi,
  I used to travel a lot and even before TSA/(9/11) they didn´t allow to carry lamp bulbs or tubes inside the airplane.
  Also, recently, I remember to see light bulbs listed as prohibited items to board at the gates.
  So, the amplifier itself, without the tubes, must be allowed as carry on luggage.
  Next august I will carry a Woo amp with me from NYC, my plan was to remove just the tubes and put them inside the checked luggage, but now I noticed that every comment here didn´t mention anything about the tubes.
  So, anyone here had problems transporting their tubes amplifiers "fully loaded"?
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Icenine2

Just got my Cavalli Liquid Fire today!  I'll report back when I put on another 100 hours.  It is a beauty!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Just got my Cavalli Liquid Fire today!  I'll report back when I put on another 100 hours.  It is a beauty!


 


  Great! But digital cameras allow for uploading much sooner than that.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Congrats on both your purchase and patience.


----------



## BrucYSN

Was that a Theta at the bottom? lol
   
  Any way dose anyone has the DAC-2 use it with a CD-tranport? 
   
  Any idea in regard of upsample on the red-book? 
  Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> My Woo WES arrived just after I left the US on a 3.5-week trip. Oh the agony. But now the pain is over and the pleasure has begun. Right out of the box, it and the SR-007s sound wonderful. The DAC-2 seems like a perfect match. I went to the California Audio Show today, though, and heard the DaVinci 384kHz DAC, and it was fabulous. A tad spendy, though.....


 


  Was that a Theta at the bottom? lol
   
  Any way dose anyone has the DAC-2 use it with a CD-tranport? 
   
  Any idea in regard of upsample on the red-book?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Was that a Theta at the bottom? lol
> 
> Any way dose anyone has the DAC-2 use it with a CD-tranport?
> 
> ...


 

 In addressing question two, are you satisfied with the results of your modded output front-end to DAC? In what configuration was the output modded? In response to question three, is the DAC's converter handling the 44.1 files properly (88.2-96-176.4-192kHz)?


----------



## Silent One

Woo-tastic Wednesday ~
   
  For some in this thread, Wednesday is _Hump Day_. For me, yesterday was anything but... it was Woo-tastic! I had the pleasure of meeting with _shipsupt_ in the evening, _mikemalter_ later at night. I have a wacky travel schedule - I get out whenever I get out, it's that simple. Yet, both were very accommodating and I was well received - true gentlemen and outstanding head-fier's.
   
  People first. While _shipsupt_ is nearly my neighbor when in NorCal, after meeting with him just over an hour, I am convinced he's a neighbor I'd enjoy having - a great guy first who happens to be a head-fier and Woo mate (found _mikemalter_ to be a great guy & Woo mate as well). I regret not arriving earlier, as we met 40 minutes before Library Closing.
   
  10 minutes before our scheduled meeting time, _shipsupt_ found me kneeling, reaching, searching CD's like a mad man who knows he's still got time! I was stalking Starker (Janos Starker)! Couldn't find him, so I bagged the likes of Maria Callas, Mingus, MA, Chopin, Ellington and so on... Until a jarring text caused me to stop. It read "_Look to your right..._" and that was the start of a great meeting! _shipsupt_ tapped me as custodian of his LCD-2's and HE-5LE's for the next two weeks - I am grateful. 
   
  Upon the conclusion of that meeting, _mikemalter_ reached me by mobile and after discussing the possibilities of our own meeting, we decided on an impromptu meeting right then and there. I'm almost certain I was seen speeding by the CHP on my way there, perhaps they had more important matters to deal with (whew!)
   
  Upon entering _mikemalter's_ listening room, I knew I was in for a wonderful session even before I sat down, when I overheard a couple of his guests:
   

   
   
  Our original meeting scheduled in a few weeks called for me to bring my Mac mini music server, Bridge, DAC and D7000's (the kit & kaboodle?). Our advanced encounter only saw me armed with my cans and portable drive. But it was still an honor and delight to be inside his listening room, where I enjoyed hearing his new gear on display.
   
  It was a grand night out... here's to you, shipsupt & mikemalter.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Woo-tastic Wednesday ~
> 
> For some in this thread, Wednesday is _Hump Day_. For me, yesterday was anything but... it was Woo-tastic! I had the pleasure of meeting with _shipsupt_ in the evening, _mikemalter_ later at night. I have a wacky travel schedule - I get out whenever I get out, it's that simple. Yet, both were very accommodating and I was well received - true gentlemen and outstanding head-fier's.
> 
> ...


 

 The pleasure was truly mine, SilentOne.  As I told you last night, I have named my audio equipment area after you because it was your visit that caused it's cleanup and organization.  I really liked listening to your Denon's.  They sounded really great.  Looking forward to your next visit.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In addressing question two, are you satisfied with the results of your modded output front-end to DAC? In what configuration was the output modded? In response to question three, is the DAC's converter handling the 44.1 files properly (88.2-96-176.4-192kHz)?


 


  The theta i had is not moded , the sacd is moded with I2U output to the dac-2 
  the dac handles it no problem, it's just i heard the upsampler can improves the transport quite a bit. Although as a upsampler dac, the dac-2 only runs at 44.1k when use with cd transport. 
  I wonder any way can make the dac-2 run at higher sample rate. Since I've seen a lot dac-2 owner here, i wonder if someone can help : )


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The pleasure was truly mine, SilentOne.  As I told you last night, I have named my audio equipment area after you because it was your visit that caused it's cleanup and organization.  I really liked listening to your Denon's.  They sounded really great.  Looking forward to your next visit.


 

 We are at once honored and humbled. Thanks for your kind words. While Clayton SF gave me my very first WA22 audition with my D5000's SE, your WA22 was my first 'balanced' initiation with the D7000's - loved 'em both! Jack's sales job with the '22' is so easy, we should get a discount - hear one, want one, buy one! In fact, what's his Twitter addy again?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That yours is black made the lusting worse.
   
  In addition to the WA22 your new portable rig impressed. Which reminds me, I'll have a quick look at my portable charger (Black & Decker) before closing this post. Your Bryston setup reminds me of cake batter. In that a quick swipe of the finger indicates a wonderful mix of ingredients and flavor. But the best is to be had when it's finished - when I return I'll find a glorious slice of that cake, no doubt. It sounds very promising but it is early. I did, however, carry Astrud Gilberto & Ramsey Lewis with me well into the night, deliciously so...
   
  Currently contemplating what I might would like for dinner and sampling your tea. I almost got caught off guard without a strainer around. I'm so use to my Gaiwans. But I just happen to have a tea cup used for my African Red Teas & black teas. Your tea is reminiscent of the Indian Estate teas I'd often sip on the corner of Gayley & Weyburn (Westwood Village). Nice bouquet and finish. Tomorrow, I'll see how it does iced & sweetened, _Southern style. _
   

   
   
   
  The MyPocketCharger comes with either tips for mobiles or iPods...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> The theta i had is not moded , the sacd is moded with I2U output to the dac-2
> the dac handles it no problem, it's just i heard the upsampler can improves the transport quite a bit. Although as a upsampler dac, the dac-2 only runs at 44.1k when use with cd transport.
> I wonder any way can make the dac-2 run at higher sample rate. Since I've seen a lot dac-2 owner here, i wonder if someone can help : )


 

 Did you send your sacd player to Wyred4Sound for the i2s custom mod? The W4S DAC-2 does not use a typical design for i2s input - they stress modifying your front-end for compatibility.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you send your sacd player to Wyred4Sound for the i2s custom mod? The W4S DAC-2 does not use a typical design for i2s input - they stress modifying your front-end for compatibility.


 
  what do you mean?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> what do you mean?


 

 You modded your sacd player's output or had it done, yes? Did the mod include adapting the unit because it did not have an i2s interface to begin with? Or you in fact modded the existing i2s interface to be compatible with the W4S DAC-2? As I understand it (from listening to Wyred4Sound), the DAC-2 has a fully balanced architecture; standard i2s output from a front-end won't work or work as intended without modification for the DAC-2.


----------



## FlyingBear

It is indeed a Theta David II. It was languishing in my home theater, replaced by a $200 Blu-ray player. So I drafted it for very occasional CD listening. I barely use it; all my music is now from a Macbook running Pure Music, or a PC running J River. Both of those applications do upsampling. The DAC-2 does not, so CDs played on the Theta get to and through the DAC-2 at 16 bits, 44.1kHz.
  
  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Was that a Theta at the bottom? lol
> 
> Any way dose anyone has the DAC-2 use it with a CD-tranport?
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

I'm wondering if a Bridge could help BrucYSN. Depending on input options for the bridge, if accepted you'd be able to do full 176.4/192 kHz. Search and see what's available...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> It is indeed a Theta David II. It was languishing in my home theater, replaced by a $200 Blu-ray player. So I drafted it for very occasional CD listening. I barely use it; all my music is now from a Macbook running Pure Music, or a PC running J River. Both of those applications do upsampling. The DAC-2 does not, so CDs played on the Theta get to and through the DAC-2 at 16 bits, 44.1kHz.


 


  I sold my Theta transport back in March.  I rarely use CD's anymore.  In fact I'm thinking about selling off my entire collection sans Coltrane.


----------



## Icenine2

I'll post up the pics tomorrow!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great! But digital cameras allow for uploading much sooner than that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I'll post up the pics tomorrow!


 

_What a great way to start a Friday - waffles, newspapers & photos..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I sold my Theta transport back in March.  I rarely use CD's anymore.  In fact I'm thinking about selling off my entire collection sans Coltrane.


 

 Do you have your collection of artists / titles in spreadsheet form by chance?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Do you have your collection of artists / titles in spreadsheet form by chance?


 

 I wish!  But thats a good idea.  First I'll have to learn how to make a spread sheet I guess.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I wish!  But thats a good idea.  First I'll have to learn how to make a spread sheet I guess.


 

 I had long thought that would be a good idea. It really wasn't laziness that got in my way, just good music! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But when sphinvc went through his ordeal losing his data; library, I thought I'd better get movin'. I do back up my stuff. However, I had a bad experience with reformatting my hard drive (Windows) and re-importing my backup via Norton. With restoration 99% complete, a crash! The headers on my encrypted drive and keys on the new drive got corrupted. Data recovery was too expensive an option. Maybe mirrored drives are in my future, there seems to be no affordable guarantees.
   
  The least I could do is have record of what I have in the event of failure. I'm thinking of maybe Google docs or Evernote. This would also allow a few members here to have a look into my library and perhaps, getting exposed to something new. 
   
  Anyway, perhaps you could PM me with the genres that dominate your collection to simplify...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> It is indeed a Theta David II. It was languishing in my home theater, replaced by a $200 Blu-ray player. So I drafted it for very occasional CD listening. I barely use it; all my music is now from a Macbook running Pure Music, or a PC running J River. Both of those applications do upsampling. The DAC-2 does not, so CDs played on the Theta get to and through the DAC-2 at 16 bits, 44.1kHz.


 
  /cough, wanna sell it?


----------



## Skylab

I'm not getting rid of my CDs for that exact reason. I hardly ever play them, but they serve as a very effective backup library.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I sold my Theta transport back in March.  I rarely use CD's anymore.  In fact I'm thinking about selling off my entire collection sans Coltrane.


 
  I keep my CD's as backup.  I remember the day I GAVE away my entire vinyl collection because I thought I'd never need it again.  Sigh.  Never do that again.


----------



## Icenine2

Cavalli Liquid Fire at home.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ _*It is beautiful!*_
   
  Thank YOU for the picture. It is certainly worth _*three thousand dollars a thousand words*_.
   
  and....
   
_I'm ordering one this weekend for my WooCavalli Room; and_
_hopefully in time for the second run._


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ _*It is beautiful!*_
> 
> Thank YOU for the picture. It is certainly worth _*three thousand dollars a thousand words*_.
> 
> ...


 


  they should schedule the next nor cal meet for Clayton's place. no one would have to bring anything.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> they should schedule the next nor cal meet for Clayton's place. no one would have to bring anything.


 

 Okay. Then again, maybe I'll wait a bit. I got a little too enthusiastic (I am easily mesmerized by things black or silver, red, and shiny--and glowing).
   
  If I do hold a meet it will have to be limited to about 4 people and you'll have to bring your own source, chair, and headphones because although I may have a lot of amps, I don't own very many headphones, sources, or furniture.


----------



## FlyingBear

Thanks, but no. I know that I'll regret it eventually, and it IS useful to listen to a CD that someone brings over for a listening session. It's a fully-depreciated asset at this point.....
  
  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> /cough, wanna sell it?


----------



## FlyingBear

Backups are a pain, but, like insurance, vital when you need them. As a computer user since 1970 (yes, 41 years), I've learned the value of backups. And a backup that isn't validated and tested from time to time is not reliable.
   
  For those of us who rip our CDs and listen to them via computer, backups are relatively easy, because we already did the time-consuming part. Hard drives are dirt cheap, and even uncompressed CD rips are small, e.g. over 3000 CDs on a cheapo 2TB drive, twice that number if you use FLAC/ALAC. You can test the backup occasionally by running a hash (CRC, SHA-1) check between the backup and main drives overnight. Free encryption software, such as Truecrypt, keeps your data safe from theft. Offsite backups are important, too: a burglary, fire or other disaster is lessened if you don't lose all of your data. Your office, a relative's house, etc can work well. I spend 2-3 hours per month on data maintenance and backup, so it's not a completely trivial exercise, but worth it. Online backups are a possibility, too, although very demanding of bandwidth if you have a lot of music, video and photos.
   
  Some things are hard, though: you can't back up vinyl. I, too, wish that I'd kept all of my vinyl records.....
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I keep my CD's as backup.  I remember the day I GAVE away my entire vinyl collection because I thought I'd never need it again.  Sigh.  Never do that again.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				mikemalter said:
			
		

> I keep my CD's as backup.  I remember the day I GAVE away my entire vinyl collection because I thought I'd never need it again.  Sigh.  Never do that again.


 
  Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> Some things are hard, though: you can't back up vinyl. I, too, wish that I'd kept all of my vinyl records.....


 
  When I was a teenager I worked for a record store called Records Hawaii. It was started by 3 former Tower Records employees from Los Angeles. Records Hawaii was huge and located in a former warehouse. I worked there off and on for about 6 years. During that time I bought and collected about 1,000+ records. I even had a box of the Beatles White Album (20 of them) that I gave away as Christmas gifts. Records cost me about $2.16. I think the Beatles White LP cost me about $7. Later, when CDs became part of my music collection in 1983, I gave away or threw away all of my vinyl because when CDs took off no one wanted my vinyl and used record stores didn't really exist in my area. Now I find out that my sister had rescued about 500 of them and they are stored in boxes in her garage in Waikoloa, Hawaii. I've been trying to get her to mail them to me but to no avail. I don't have the room anyway so it is just as well they remain in storage at her place. Sigh, too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ _*It is beautiful!*_
> 
> Thank YOU for the picture. It is certainly worth _*three thousand dollars a thousand words*_.
> 
> ...


 



 Wow, expect me ringing your door bell next time I travel to SF.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Of course, I will bring sake...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm not getting rid of my CDs for that exact reason. I hardly ever play them, but they serve as a very effective backup library.


 


  I know what you mean but it seems for me I've burnt out on my entire collection of CD's except my Jazz from the 50's.  While there is a lot of excellent music in it I've simply moved on to new music because I'm a new sound junkie. I get all of my new music from the extensive county library and then I cherry pick.  So all my music is now across 3 hard drives and none of it is from my CD collection.   I simply don't listen to it anymore.  Sometimes out of guilt I peruse through the collection and try to pick out something I might want to listen to and it always turns out the same. I'm not as interested as I once was. 
   
   I know for most people this is not the case and probably peculiar to me alone. But thats the way my neural pathways have evolved. I seem to thrive for the exploration of new sounds and then according to my playlist I average about 20 plays on a tune and then I move on.  
   
  So it looks like the CD collection is going to be smelted in the financial caldron along with other lost interests and perhaps contribute to a WA2 and the resulting expenditure which will surely follow as tubes roll in and out.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Cavalli Liquid Fire at home.


 

 Really nice looking!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ _*It is beautiful!*_
> 
> Thank YOU for the picture. It is certainly worth _*three thousand dollars a thousand words*_.
> 
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

++
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm not getting rid of my CDs for that exact reason. I hardly ever play them, but they serve as a very effective backup library.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> When I was a teenager I worked for a record store called Records Hawaii. It was started by 3 former Tower Records employees from Los Angeles. Records Hawaii was huge and located in a former warehouse. I worked there off and on for about 6 years. During that time I bought and collected about 1,000+ records. I even had a box of the Beatles White Album (20 of them) that I gave away as Christmas gifts. Records cost me about $2.16. I think the Beatles White LP cost me about $7. Later, when CDs became part of my music collection in 1983, I gave away or threw away all of my vinyl because when CDs took off no one wanted my vinyl and used record stores didn't really exist in my area. Now I find out that my sister had rescued about 500 of them and they are stored in boxes in her garage in Waikoloa, Hawaii. I've been trying to get her to mail them to me but to no avail. I don't have the room anyway so it is just as well they remain in storage at her place. Sigh, too.


 

 My wife and I are going to Hawaii in September.  We could bring them back.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Cavalli Liquid Fire at home.


 

 Thanks, Icenine2. Your photo was a tremendous compliment to my brunch!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> ++


 

 +++


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Okay. Then again, maybe I'll wait a bit. I got a little too enthusiastic (I am easily mesmerized by things black or silver, red, and shiny--and glowing).
> 
> If I do hold a meet it will have to be limited to about 4 people and you'll have to bring your own source, chair, and headphones because although I may have a lot of amps, I don't own very many headphones, sources, or furniture.


 

 Sources ~
   
  I knew choosing a Mac mini as music server would come in handy one day!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sources ~
> 
> I knew choosing a Mac mini as music server would come in handy one day!


 
  How is that working out?  I'm thinking about it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How is that working out?  I'm thinking about it.


 

 From a design and flexibility point of view it has worked out well! Adding the solid-state drive was icing on the music server cake. Looming on the horizon is taking the Mac off the grid, either with the Red Wine Audio option, or other LifePO4 options...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From a design and flexibility point of view it has worked out well! Adding the solid-state drive was icing on the music server cake. Looming on the horizon is taking the Mac off the grid, either with the Red Wine Audio option, or other LifePO4 options...


 
  How would taking the MacMini off-grid help? And which solid-state drive are you talking about? I'm thinking about getting the new MacMini to use as a music server but don't know where to start. (If they make the MMini any thinner you'll be able to use it as a coaster.)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From a design and flexibility point of view it has worked out well! Adding the solid-state drive was icing on the music server cake. Looming on the horizon is taking the Mac off the grid, either with the Red Wine Audio option, or other LifePO4 options...


 

 What Red Wine Option?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How would taking the MacMini off-grid help? And which solid-state drive are you talking about? I'm thinking about getting the new MacMini to use as a music server but don't know where to start. (If they make the MMini any thinner you'll be able to use it as a coaster.)


 

 By not relying on the varying quality of AC power, less grunge (no grunge), improved dynamics, blacker background, more natural sound, better low-end (yes!), bigger sound stage and holographic imaging to name a few (sorry, got excited)...
   
  Also, be aware that the new mini comes sans optical drive.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From a design and flexibility point of view it has worked out well! Adding the solid-state drive was icing on the music server cake. Looming on the horizon is taking the Mac off the grid, either with the Red Wine Audio option, or other LifePO4 options...


 

 I'm curious about the solid state drive addition... is it strictly beneficial if your entirely library fits on the SS drive, or does it provide some tangible improvement even when using a conventional external HD to house your library? I've noticed that the newest Minis have the SS option right on Apple's online store (though still quite spendy).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What Red Wine Option?


 


http://redwineaudio.com/components/black_lightning
   
  They're not the only game in town, so to speak. There could be more affordable options. Many of the recent options (RWA & Mach2mini) provide options for powering more than one device in your system; taking the whole thing off the grid.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I'm curious about the solid state drive addition... is it strictly beneficial if your entirely library fits on the SS drive, or does it provide some tangible improvement even when using a conventional external HD to house your library? I've noticed that the newest Minis have the SS option right on Apple's online store (though still quite spendy).


 


  Cramming your library contents onto the SS would not be optimal due to expense; read/write wear. The optimal thing to do is get a SSD large enough for the OS and maybe a little bit extra (just because you can) and  house your library on the external HDD. When typical HDD's spin inside the computer environment it creates unpleasant noises and other electromagnetic hash that impacts your sound. 
   
  In a computer environment (which can prove tricky) isolation is key to good sound. I took the internal drive (HDD) and housed it outside the mini with a firewire connection, while my internal SSD @ 64GB is plenty enough for operating and a short-list of favs. Also, if you're going the SSD route it's best to scoop up maximum memory while you're at it - memory play is also beneficial.
   
  Lastly, make sure you keep things on a different BUS - got a USB DAC? Make your HDD FireWire. Or vice-versa. The new mini's come with Thunderbolt, so that my yield more options than I'm dealing with now...


----------



## emremusic

Friends, I need some advice, 
   
  As you may have noticed my Woo6SE is really a great amp, but rest of my gear - my source (Apogee Duet) and headphones (AKG 702)- needs to catch up..
   
  I'm looking to upgrade, and I have...500 bucks. I know that is not much to work with in audiophile terms but I'm getting married soon, and we need the money for furniture. - Actually my wife to be doesnt know about this little upgrade itch.
   
  I'm thinking about Musical Fidelity's V-Dac, and the V-link -usb to spdif convertor. They both add up to about what I can spend and they are both highly recommended on Head-fi. Those pieces together add up to a much better DAC than my Apogee Duet.
   
  Would this be a good route for my 6SE?


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I sold my Theta transport back in March.  I rarely use CD's anymore.  In fact I'm thinking about selling off my entire collection sans Coltrane.


 

 Don't you think they sound better? I notice some improvement by quite margin compare to a dvd-based transport. 
  I'm too lazy to rip all the cds....


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know what you mean but it seems for me I've burnt out on my entire collection of CD's except my Jazz from the 50's.  While there is a lot of excellent music in it I've simply moved on to new music because I'm a new sound junkie. I get all of my new music from the extensive county library and then I cherry pick.  So all my music is now across 3 hard drives and none of it is from my CD collection.   I simply don't listen to it anymore.  Sometimes out of guilt I peruse through the collection and try to pick out something I might want to listen to and it always turns out the same. I'm not as interested as I once was.
> 
> I know for most people this is not the case and probably peculiar to me alone. But thats the way my neural pathways have evolved. I seem to thrive for the exploration of new sounds and then according to my playlist I average about 20 plays on a tune and then I move on.
> 
> So it looks like the CD collection is going to be smelted in the financial caldron along with other lost interests and perhaps contribute to a WA2 and the resulting expenditure which will surely follow as tubes roll in and out.


 
  Borrow from library... why i haven't I think of it.. ...


----------



## vinyllp33

emremusic said:


> Friends, I need some advice,
> 
> As you may have noticed my Woo6SE is really a great amp, but rest of my gear - my source (Apogee Duet) and headphones (AKG 702)- needs to catch up..
> 
> ...




My good friend has your same set up: WA6SE/Sophia/K702 and just bought a really sweet DAC from Emotiva Audio.

No doubt the Musical Fidelity are really good pieces, but I think that you will find the XDA-1 benefits from its much larger power supply, discrete analog output stage and more substantial build quality. And since it has direct USB in you eliminate the need for a SPDIF cable which results in a shorter signal path and additional cost savings.

Check it out, for $399 with free shipping it really is a steal and worthy of being paired with a Woo.

http://emotiva.com/xda1.shtm

Also many congratulations on your impending nuptials!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Friends, I need some advice,
> 
> 
> but I'm getting married soon, and we need the money for furniture. - Actually my wife to be doesnt know about this little upgrade itch.


 

  First off. Furniture is way over rated. About the marriage thing, set the audiophile rules NOW, right from the start. These rules will include the speakers go in the living room. There will be cables on the floor.  There will be a rack of gear... You get the idea
   
    Thirdly NEVER tell your wife how much something costs.  Ever.  I've known my wife for 25 years and I've never told her how much anything costs.  I've seen plenty of guys fall by the wayside making that mistake.    It is a fatal mistake. Don't do it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


>


 
   
   
  emre ~
   
  I too, would like to share in your joy... congrats on your upcoming nuptials as well!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I sold my Theta transport back in March.  I rarely use CD's anymore.  In fact I'm thinking about selling off my entire collection sans Coltrane.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm not getting rid of my CDs for that exact reason. I hardly ever play them, but they serve as a very effective backup library.


 


 Not just for backup, but if you have copyrighted music ripped to your HDD, you need to keep your original CDs to be technically legal. Not sure how it works if you are archiving CDs from the library though.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> My good friend has your same set up: WA6SE/Sophia/K702 and just bought a really sweet DAC from Emotiva Audio.
> 
> No doubt the Musical Fidelity are really good pieces, but I think that you will find the XDA-1 benefits from its much larger power supply, discrete analog output stage and more substantial build quality. And since it has direct USB in you eliminate the need for a SPDIF cable which results in a shorter signal path and additional cost savings.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What amp is your friend using, and is there a preamp involved? I'm asking because I tried an XDA-1 and sent it back when it wouldn't give me a decent line voltage level into my amp. From what I read in another forum the earliest models were too hot, and mine was from the second batch where they must have overcompensated. The current specs say "Nominal Output Voltage: 1V RMS", most sources are twice that.
   
  My feeling is that it would be good into an Emotiva or perhaps another preamp but not so good straight into a headphone or power amp. I have tried two other DACs, one of them balanced into that same amp without issue. I tried the XDA-1 in both SE and balanced mode into that amp and neither was up to the task. Also it only has attenuated mode, no option for fixed output.
   
  I called them after I sent it back, and they said that they checked it out and it was working correctly. It was an interesting experience because after reading the initial reviews I was concerned that it would be too loud but it turned out to be quite the opposite.
   
  It was disappointing, as from what I had read it sounds very good for the price in the right setup, plus it looks _uber_cool and has a nice remote control. Also it takes up a LOT of real estate, about 17" square with the cables coming out of the back.


----------



## Skylab

grokit said:


> Not just for backup, but if you have copyrighted music ripped to your HDD, you need to keep your original CDs to be technically legal. Not sure how it works if you are archiving CDs from the library though.




That's actually a very good point. Selling your CDs after ripping them is a violation of copyright law if you keep the ripped music. If you gave away the CD's free, and you kept the receipts from their original purchase, then I'm not sure how that could be an issue. But who keeps receipts like that? Not me. My CD collection is now close to spanning 25 years of my purchases. My LP collection spans almost 35 years. There is no chance whatsoever that I will ever sell the LP's. But I'm pretty much decided on keeping the CD's too. I also kinda like looking at them.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's actually a very good point. Selling your CDs after ripping them is a violation of copyright law if you keep the ripped music. If you gave away the CD's free, and you kept the receipts from their original purchase, then I'm not sure how that could be an issue. But who keeps receipts like that? Not me. My CD collection is now close to spanning 25 years of my purchases. My LP collection spans almost 35 years. There is no chance whatsoever that I will ever sell the LP's. But I'm pretty much decided on keeping the CD's too. I also kinda like looking at them.


 

 I loved vinyl. There is no argument about the seductive, lucid, holographic sound of vinyl from me.       I had a large collection that started with my first album "Meet The Beatles" in 1964.  I was 8.   But there was one thing I never could get used to and it really made me crazy.  Groove noise.  I always hated groove noise.  No matter how good the condition of the vinyl, no matter how well engineered the table/tone arm/cartridge I just couldn't stand groove noise.  Even today when music is intentionally mixed with groove noise as an effect I discard the track immediately.  So a while back I gave all my vinyl away to a friend who isn't audiophile and doesn't have the money to collect CD's. The vinyl was just sitting in boxes for years now.  I gave him a turntable also.  He turned me on to Coltrane long ago so it was the least I could do.    I kept that Beatles vinyl though.  I only have the record now after all these years no album cover.
   
  As for my CD collection.  all is does is collect dust.  The only time I look at it is when I dust it off.   I'll keep all the Jazz on the Impulse label and Blue note stuff.  Everything else is gonna go.


----------



## Skylab

Groove noise bothered me until I began to wet-vacuum clean my records. Now my records are almost all completely quiet. Wet-vacuum cleaning is a revelation for vinyl.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Groove noise bothered me until I began to wet-vacuum clean my records. Now my records are almost all completely quiet. Wet-vacuum cleaning is a revelation for vinyl.


 

 Like the record doctor or a VPI cleaner.   They still could not rid me of my OCD for groove noise. I have to admit though just talking about vinyl makes me lust for vinyls allure.


----------



## Skylab

Right, I use a VPI 16.5. Maybe the best $500 I ever spent in my more than 30 years in the hobby.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right, I use a VPI 16.5. Maybe the best $500 I ever spent in my more than 30 years in the hobby.


 


  It does a great job.


----------



## Icenine2

Here's what I wonder about legalities.  For instance: I've owned Sgt Pepper in 2 vinyl issues, 2 CD issues, the 24 bit files on USB.  At what point haven't I paid the artists rights here?  Even if I sell them and keep one on file?  It seems logical that if I buy an newly remastered version I shouldn't have to pay for the artists rights a second time but should get some sort of trade in upgrade price?  Of course even if it does make some sense it isn't probably the letter of the law.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's actually a very good point. Selling your CDs after ripping them is a violation of copyright law if you keep the ripped music. If you gave away the CD's free, and you kept the receipts from their original purchase, then I'm not sure how that could be an issue. But who keeps receipts like that? Not me. My CD collection is now close to spanning 25 years of my purchases. My LP collection spans almost 35 years. There is no chance whatsoever that I will ever sell the LP's. But I'm pretty much decided on keeping the CD's too. I also kinda like looking at them.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Here's what I wonder about legalities.  For instance: I've owned Sgt Pepper in 2 vinyl issues, 2 CD issues, the 24 bit files on USB.  At what point haven't I paid the artists rights here?  Even if I sell them and keep one on file?  It seems logical that if I buy an newly remastered version I shouldn't have to pay for the artists rights a second time but should get some sort of trade in upgrade price?  Of course even if it does make some sense it isn't probably the letter of the law.


 
  Doesn't really matter no one will ever come after you.


----------



## Icenine2

What I really want is a rip of the whole Led Zep catalog from the 45 rpm catalog box. It is supposed to be the best LZ available.  Super expensive, just check eBay.  Too bad you can't get the rips legally somehow.  I've got the Japanese mini lp SHM's of Zep and they are the best sounding to me next to vinyl.


----------



## Icenine2

+
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> First off. Furniture is way over rated. About the marriage thing, set the audiophile rules NOW, right from the start. These rules will include the speakers go in the living room. There will be cables on the floor.  There will be a rack of gear... You get the idea
> 
> Thirdly NEVER tell your wife how much something costs.  Ever.  I've known my wife for 25 years and I've never told her how much anything costs.  I've seen plenty of guys fall by the wayside making that mistake.    It is a fatal mistake. Don't do it.


----------



## emremusic

@Vinylip, Silent One, Warriorant.. thanks for the congrats..
   
  Thank you for the lesson on keeping the price of my gear hidden. Couple of years ago I wouldn't understand why one would pay so such for a headphone amp myself. I didn't even know what a DAC was.
   
  I will read up on Emotiva Audio, thanks, I still have some time to decide...
  
  Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> My good friend has your same set up: WA6SE/Sophia/K702 and just bought a really sweet DAC from Emotiva Audio.
> 
> No doubt the Musical Fidelity are really good pieces, but I think that you will find the XDA-1 benefits from its much larger power supply, discrete analog output stage and more substantial build quality. And since it has direct USB in you eliminate the need for a SPDIF cable which results in a shorter signal path and additional cost savings.
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

skylab said:


> Right, I use a VPI 16.5. Maybe the best $500 I ever spent in my more than 30 years in the hobby.




Timely post! I'm just re-entering vinyl and hand cleaning at the moment. With that recommendation I'll start seeking out a VPI.


----------



## Skylab

Wet-vacuum cleaning makes an enormous difference in the quietness of records. To the point where if someone owned a $200 cartridge, and had $500 to spend, I would recommend the VPI over buying a $500 cartridge, any day of the week.


----------



## wuwhere

When I was into vinyl I had a VPI 16.5, liquid cleaner, a record brush and a Discwasher anti-static gun. I would place the record on the VPI, turn it on, apply the liquid cleaner, brush, turn on the vacuum. I would even do this twice/side to deep clean the record. Then use the anti-static gun after.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Groove noise bothered me until I began to wet-vacuum clean my records. Now my records are almost all completely quiet. Wet-vacuum cleaning is a revelation for vinyl.


 

 X2


----------



## grokit

The 16.5 rocks. A friend is borrowing mine for digitizing his out-of-print African beat music for free dissemination online:
   
rhythmconnection.org
 rhythmconnection.blogspot.com

 Just click on _enjoy_ for the downloads if you're interested. His latest offering is particularly relevant as he has named his first born Nico.
  
  The rips sound pretty good considering he is using CAT5 cable into the ADC (mic input) of his iMac. I tried to convince him that he needs an unobtanioum-plated cable and a firewire studio-quality ADC, along with the audiophile ripping program Pure Vinyl as opposed to the free Audacity program but he just laughed at me (he's an old radio guy).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The 16.5 rocks. A friend is borrowing mine for digitizing his out-of-print African beat music for free dissemination online:
> 
> rhythmconnection.org
> rhythmconnection.blogspot.com
> ...


 

 Contribution ~
   
  Thanks for sharing. The Continent drives my music library...
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  When I saw your friend's link to Stern's Music, it warmed me like no other... still grinnin'! I use to buy my Stern's Music CD's from VirginMega Store on the Sunset Strip, L.A. Prior to that, I had to have them 'Aired' from Stern's NY/London music stores. Being an Old Radio Guy has he auditioned your Woo?


----------



## vinyllp33

skylab said:


> Wet-vacuum cleaning makes an enormous difference in the quietness of records. To the point where if someone owned a $200 cartridge, and had $500 to spend, I would recommend the VPI over buying a $500 cartridge, any day of the week.




Sage Advice!


----------



## Redcarmoose

"I loved vinyl. There is no argument about the seductive, lucid, holographic sound of vinyl from me. I had a large collection that started with my first album "Meet The Beatles" in 1964. I was 8. But there was one thing I never could get used to and it really made me crazy. Groove noise. I always hated groove noise. No matter how good the condition of the vinyl, no matter how well engineered the table/tone arm/cartridge I just couldn't stand groove noise. Even today when music is intentionally mixed with groove noise as an effect I discard the track immediately. So a while back I gave all my vinyl away to a friend who isn't audiophile and doesn't have the money to collect CD's. The vinyl was just sitting in boxes for years now. I gave him a turntable also. He turned me on to Coltrane long ago so it was the least I could do. I kept that Beatles vinyl though. I only have the record now after all these years no album cover.



 As for my CD collection. all is does is collect dust. The only time I look at it is when I dust it off. I'll keep all the Jazz on the Impulse label and Blue note stuff. Everything else is gonna go."



 @ WarriorAnt

 After having decent but not great turntables from the early 1970s until 2009. The second biggest change after a good cleaning with a VPI machine is the turntable. A good turntable will reduce the level of surface noise by letting the needle get down into the vinyl groove information and track. I noted a 50% or better reduction in surface noise with a good turntable. To tell you the truth it was almost hard to believe the change in how quiet my old records became! The sound of the needle contact surface noise is still there but can be reduced. The amazing thing is the reduction of pops as the needle is farther into the groove. The sound pulled out of the groove may be louder than the artifacts produced by imperfect records. The change in the relationship makes the records sound clearer and redirects you focus from the surface noise and pops.


----------



## vinyllp33

grokit said:


> What amp is your friend using, and is there a preamp involved? I'm asking because I tried an XDA-1 and sent it back when it wouldn't give me a decent line voltage level into my amp. From what I read in another forum the earliest models were too hot, and mine was from the second batch where they must have overcompensated. The current specs say "Nominal Output Voltage: 1V RMS", most sources are twice that.
> 
> My feeling is that it would be good into an Emotiva or perhaps another preamp but not so good straight into a headphone or power amp. I have tried two other DACs, one of them balanced into that same amp without issue. I tried the XDA-1 in both SE and balanced mode into that amp and neither was up to the task. Also it only has attenuated mode, no option for fixed output.
> 
> ...




Makes me wonder if he has an earlier model, it is going direct to a WA6SE and there seems to be plenty of drive and gain using 6EW7's.

You are correct that the 1V output is half of what is typically encountered, I wonder what the reasoning is there?

Now if one was to run this through a tube buffer then to the amp, that should add a bit more gain and even better sound.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> After having decent but not great turntables from the early 1970s until 2009. The second biggest change after a good cleaning with a VPI machine is the turntable. A good turntable will reduce the level of surface noise by letting the needle get down into the vinyl groove information and track. I noted a 50% or better reduction in surface noise with a good turntable. To tell you the truth it was almost hard to believe the change in how quiet my old records became! The sound of the needle contact surface noise is still there but can be reduced. The amazing thing is the reduction of pops as the needle is farther into the groove. The sound pulled out of the groove may be louder than the artifacts produced by imperfect records. The change in the relationship makes the records sound clearer and redirects you focus from the surface noise and pops.


 
  I've had a Sota Star and a VPI table.  A long time ago. Like 1989. 1990.  I cannot remember what tone arms.  I had one cartridge called a "Grasshopper".  Its the only one I can remember because it had such a cool name.   A very well engineered table/arms/cartridge is the only way to go.  It is amazing how much engineering it takes to get the most out of those grooves.  I just remembered I used a Conrad Johnson preamp and an Audio Research SP8 and an SP10 for the phone stages.  Wish I still had that SP 10.
   
   
  I just spent a few hours oneBay looking at used CD prices and realized it's not even worth the trouble to sell them unless one get get a lump sum for an entire collection.


----------



## BrucYSN

My HPs lately had some weired sound, even when music paused, there is still some electronic noise come through the right sometimes, is there something I need to pay attention to??


----------



## BrucYSN

Although the music still plays normally...


----------



## MacedonianHero

brucysn said:


> Although the music still plays normally...




I'd switch your driver and power tubes and see if it follows to your left side.


----------



## BrucYSN

what if it dose....


----------



## MacedonianHero

brucysn said:


> what if it dose....




You've got a tube issue. Either your driver or power tube.

Next up, change just one of the tubes (either your driver or power tube...not both)....whatever side you hear the problem, has the problematic tube.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Hey Mike, how does the *W4S ST Preamp SE fit into your system?  *


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> X2




x3

Not to mention that $500 investment in the cleaner opens up a whole world of $2 bargain bin LPs!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jerico said:


> x3
> 
> Not to mention that $500 investment in the cleaner opens up a whole world of $2 bargain bin LPs!


 

 Indeed - there is a record store very near me that has a fantastic $1 LP section.  I often leave with 10 records in great condition for $10, that after cleaning will sound excellent.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Indeed - there is a record store very near me that has a fantastic $1 LP section.  I often leave with 10 records in great condition for $10, that after cleaning will sound excellent.


 

 I used to hit up the Good Will on Monday's when they refreshed their stock from weekend donations.  Lots of great LP values there once cleaned.


----------



## Clayton SF

Reading all these posts about record stores made me go and visit a used record store this afternoon; I came across this shirt while looking through a pile of used LPs. Can anyone translate this for me?--thanks.


----------



## dminches

Godzilla


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Godzilla


 

 OMG. If that wasn't obvious enough. Thanks though! I feel a dolt!


----------



## cs16

Hi folks,
   
  Since I'm new here, I want to say hello!
  I just bought used WA6 last Saturday. So soon enough, I'm gonna be the proud owner of WA6!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I got the amp + EML 274B pretty cheap from ebay Germany.
   
  Will let you guys know how it sounds with my HD650!
   
  -cs16


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Congratulations and welcome! I really like the HD650 with the WA6. The WA6 is a great amp. Have fun. The AKG K701 are wonderful as well. I don't own the EML 274B. I own the EML 5U4G and that rectifier really brings out the bass notes. My favorite rectifier is the CV1863. Perhaps they have that tube on ebay Germany as well.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Congrats on your purchase, cs16. I agree with Clayton 100% -- if you like the HD650, you'll love them with the WA6. It's a combination I was content with for a good while -- before I got tangled up in the flagship wars, that is.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Reading all these posts about record stores made me go and visit a used record store this afternoon; I came across this shirt while looking through a pile of used LPs. Can anyone translate this for me?--thanks.


 


  Great photo! (Silent One begins searching the UHF channels...)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cs16 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Since I'm new here, I want to say hello!
> I just bought used WA6 last Saturday. So soon enough, I'm gonna be the proud owner of WA6!!
> ...


 


  Congrats! Do keep us posted. What type of music will you be serving up for the combo?


----------



## bergnerm

Not to come across as a holier than thou, because I'm certainly not without sin, but if you borrow a CD and rip it, that's a violation of copyright law. You are permitted to make an archival / backup copy. You are also allowed to "time shift" (i.e., record from a radio station for later listening). Put differently and more simplistically, if two people can listen to two separate recordings from the same original source, it's probably a copyright violation. Most people don't view it as stealing because the original recording hasn't been taken, but, in fact, it is. You are depriving the artist of revenues that would otherwise be his. Statements like "well, I wouldn't have bought it anyway" don't justify it. So even if you gave away the CDs and kept the originals, it would be a problem.
   
  But Icenine2 raises a good question... if you have a copy of Sgt. Pepper and you want to buy the exact same recording on CD, you should be entitled to a discount (or perhaps free, for an on-line download) since you've already paid for a license. But the laws don't really work like that. Also, if you tried to justify a download of a different recording of the same music, keep in mind that the copyright doesn't just protect the music, but also the mixing, etc... so two different mixes of the same original tracks would have two different copyrights.
   
  It's a tough issue-as WarriorAnt said, "no one will come after you". True in all but the most egregious and easy to track cases. But the prevalence of this attitude has led to a significant downturn in the music industry since 2001, with no end in sight (see http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/business/global/22music.html).
   
  You should at least make an effort to support the musicians and labels whose music you enjoy to ensure that new quality music will be available as we have all enjoyed in the past.
   
  ...sorry, didn't mean to be too preachy.
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Here's what I wonder about legalities.  For instance: I've owned Sgt Pepper in 2 vinyl issues, 2 CD issues, the 24 bit files on USB.  At what point haven't I paid the artists rights here?  Even if I sell them and keep one on file?  It seems logical that if I buy an newly remastered version I shouldn't have to pay for the artists rights a second time but should get some sort of trade in upgrade price?  Of course even if it does make some sense it isn't probably the letter of the law.


 


   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's actually a very good point. Selling your CDs after ripping them is a violation of copyright law if you keep the ripped music. If you gave away the CD's free, and you kept the receipts from their original purchase, then I'm not sure how that could be an issue. But who keeps receipts like that? Not me. My CD collection is now close to spanning 25 years of my purchases. My LP collection spans almost 35 years. There is no chance whatsoever that I will ever sell the LP's. But I'm pretty much decided on keeping the CD's too. I also kinda like looking at them.


 


   


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Doesn't really matter no one will ever come after you.


----------



## bergnerm

Just curious what you plan to christen it with...
  
  Quote: 





cs16 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Since I'm new here, I want to say hello!
> I just bought used WA6 last Saturday. So soon enough, I'm gonna be the proud owner of WA6!!
> ...


----------



## Silent One

While awaiting cs16's reply, for my WA6SE's first track I chose "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr. (Jazz/1993). It was a good day! Any others remember their Woo's first track? Or were y'all too busy throwing packaging material over your shoulders?!


----------



## bergnerm

Sounds a bit narcissistic, but I christened my WA2 with a piece I wrote/recorded for a class... but the _second_ piece I christened it with was one of the freebie downloads from HDtracks, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov: The Snow Maiden - Dance of the Tumblers. An amazing piece of music and an equally amazing recording... and to top it off, it was free! Definitely worth a listen.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> While awaiting cs16's reply, for my WA6SE's first track I chose "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr. (Jazz/1993). It was a good day! Any others remember their Woo's first track? Or were y'all too busy throwing packaging material over your shoulders?!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> While awaiting cs16's reply, for my WA6SE's first track I chose "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr. (Jazz/1993). It was a good day! Any others remember their Woo's first track? Or were y'all too busy throwing packaging material over your shoulders?!


 

 Funny you should ask... I do remember! My WA6SE's first track was "Fist of Fire" from _Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe. _Not the best song in the world, but one I know very well and great for checking bass extension.
   
  I do not remember with my WA2... sorry!


----------



## cs16

Well, that's a good question though. Haven't really thought about that.
  But I think I'm gonna christen it with one of my Beatles mono remastered track. 
   
  But honestly, I'm surprised that most of you guys still remembered which track you used for the first time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cs16 said:


> Well, that's a good question though. Haven't really thought about that.
> But I think I'm gonna christen it with one of my Beatles mono remastered track.
> 
> But honestly, I'm surprised that most of you guys still remembered which track you used for the first time.


 

  
  For me, the Woo Audio 6 _Special Edition_ was no ordinary purchase. It was to be my very first tube amp. I knew the first day would be spent listening to several samples as opposed to complete tracks. I found it very stimulating to put thought into what track would be the first, a special moment indeed. A memory that requires no effort. For two whole months, at idle moments in the day/night, I reviewed potential tracks inside my head with delight.
   
  After the completion of the first track, I felt like an Ant who found itself squarely inside a July picnic!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Hey Mike, how does the *W4S ST Preamp SE fit into your system?  *


 

 Hey Windy.  I'm still grappling with some digital smearing and was hoping that a preamp would help.  I'm still breaking it in and won't know until the end of the week at the earliest. 
   
  I have speakers in my office, and it would be nice to just switch over to them instead of swapping cables and whatnot.  I'm also planning to bring my vinyl into the picture at some point and so I can have my WA22 plugged into the preamp and then switch to a variety of sources to feed it.
   
  I have another preamp with a phono stage that I really like, but it does not have balanced outputs, the W4S has two pairs of balanced outputs, so one can go to my WA22 and the other to my speaker amp.  It also has two pairs of balanced inputs so I can go truly balanced through with the DAC-2 and whatever phonostage I can snag that has balanced outputs.
   
  So far I like the W4S as it is clean and is a dual passive up from 0 to 63 and active from 64 to 80.  Also, I can set my W4S DAC output level to 60 and then feed the signal to the SE and deal with volume there which is more granular than the WA22.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





cs16 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Since I'm new here, I want to say hello!
> I just bought used WA6 last Saturday. So soon enough, I'm gonna be the proud owner of WA6!!
> ...


 

 Welcome to the thread, it's a really nice place to hang.  I have an HD650 and I really like it.  In fact I am listening to them right now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Funny you should ask... I do remember! My WA6SE's first track was "Fist of Fire" from _Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe. _Not the best song in the world, but one I know very well and great for checking bass extension.
> 
> I do not remember with my WA2... sorry!


 

 I too, selected material I knew very well and checked for bass extension. After all, Abraham is a world-class bassist.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I also saw him a couple of times perform live inside an intimate Studio City Jazz club, giving me combined references to draw on. The Woo satisfied...
   
  And curiously, I'm not sure if the elevation of Jim Creek is near mile-high like Denver. But if it is high, can you tell us if there's an advantage or disadvantage when listening to high-end gear at high altitude? Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Welcome to the thread, it's a really nice place to hang.  I have an HD650 and I really like it.  In fact I am listening to them right now.


 

 Do you remember the very first track you presented your Woo?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I too, selected material I knew very well and checked for bass extension. After all, Abraham is a world-class bassist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know Abraham Laboriel -- thanks very much for pointing me in his direction. Any specific recommendations for beginners (in addition to the album you mention above)?
   
  I live at cool 8500 feet of elevation -- another 2/3 of a mile or so above the Mile High City. The only disadvantage I've noticed with high-end gear at altitude is losing my breath hauling crates of LPs from the mailbox. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Seriously, though, I've not noticed anything out of the ordinary when it comes to the sound quality of speakers or headphones. I do know that wood (like the wood cups of my old HF-2 and current LCD-2) requires special attention, but that's more of a function of humidity than altitude. Were you thinking perhaps of something related to the movement of air through a diaphragm, or maybe lower atmospheric pressure? It's a fascinating idea, one I've never considered.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I think that music sounds a bit sweeter on cool foggy San Francisco nights than on warm and muggy Hawaiian evenings. Ahhhhhh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then again...


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ I think that music sounds a bit sweeter on cool foggy San Francisco nights than on warm and muggy Hawaiian evenings. Ahhhhhh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 In my experience, music sounds best when there's a foot of snow on the ground and another foot and a half forecast by morning... to each his own, I guess.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I don't know Abraham Laboriel -- thanks very much for pointing me in his direction. Any specific recommendations for beginners (in addition to the album you mention above)?
> 
> I live at cool 8500 feet of elevation -- another 2/3 of a mile or so above the Mile High City. The only disadvantage I've noticed with high-end gear at altitude is losing my breath hauling crates of LPs from the mailbox.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry for the confusion. I'm referring to one's hearing as oppose to the actual gear. Do you get to sea level now and then? Do you find a difference in your ear's ability to resolve at the two different levels? 




  This is something I've long wondered and never got around to asking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ I think that music sounds a bit sweeter on cool foggy San Francisco nights than on warm and muggy Hawaiian evenings. Ahhhhhh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

_Definitely faster, more forward..._
   
  And YES, we're all wondering how Clayton SF is going to address the question of "_What was the_ _very first track you presented your Woo_... all 19 of 'em?!" (kidding) I'm quite sure if I was flushed with your gear, it likely wouldn't have crossed my mind either.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I'm very interested in how this works out for you.  Please keep us updated!
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey Windy.  I'm still grappling with some digital smearing and was hoping that a preamp would help.  I'm still breaking it in and won't know until the end of the week at the earliest.
> 
> I have speakers in my office, and it would be nice to just switch over to them instead of swapping cables and whatnot.  I'm also planning to bring my vinyl into the picture at some point and so I can have my WA22 plugged into the preamp and then switch to a variety of sources to feed it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey Windy.  I'm still grappling with some digital smearing and was hoping that a preamp would help.  I'm still breaking it in and won't know until the end of the week at the earliest.
> 
> I have speakers in my office, and it would be nice to just switch over to them instead of swapping cables and whatnot.  I'm also planning to bring my vinyl into the picture at some point and so I can have my WA22 plugged into the preamp and then switch to a variety of sources to feed it.
> 
> ...


 

 Your timing could not be more perfect - return home from vacation to find your system _dialed-in & burned-in! ("Forecast calls for increasing productivity heading in to Autumn...")_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Definitely faster, more forward..._
> 
> And YES, we're all wondering how Clayton SF is going to address the question of "_What was the_ _very first track you presented your Woo_... all 19 of 'em?!" (kidding) I'm quite sure if I was flushed with your gear, it likely wouldn't have crossed my mind either.


 
  My first headphone amp was is (I still own it) the Musical Fidelity X-CAN V8p hybrid with a matching pair of Mullard 6922/CV2493. A wonderful amp. My second amp is the WA6. A wonderful amp as well (well we all know that, don't we). As for the first song on my X-CAN and WA6, it was _Le Temps Passe_ by Jonaz Michel. An absolutely incredible *live performance* with a bass guitar that will absolutely test your headphones' strengths and then some. If I could upload it for your pleasure without breaking any copyright laws I would but I can't so you'll have to come over and listen to it on one of my amps. Also, if you can find out which CD that song comes from it would be a real bonus. I can't seem to find the CD--if it exists.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My first headphone amp was is (I still own it) the Musical Fidelity X-CAN V8p hybrid with a matching pair of Mullard 6922/CV2493. A wonderful amp. My second amp is the WA6. A wonderful amp as well (well we all know that, don't we). As for the first song on my X-CAN and WA6, it was _Le Temps Passe_ by Jonaz Michel. An absolutely incredible *live performance* with a bass guitar that will absolutely test your headphones' strengths and then some. If I could upload it for your pleasure without breaking any copyright laws I would but I can't so you'll have to come over and listen to it on one of my amps. Also, if you can find out which CD that song comes from it would be a real bonus. I can't seem to find the CD--if it exists.


 

 Outstanding... I still have value remaining on my BART ticket! My first hunch would be to check the database at the U.S. Library of Congress. You never know! How did you happen upon the recording initially? Sound better 'Tubed?' SS?? Or with a great recording like that, excels on both?! Will have a closer look...




   
_Le Temps Passe - Jonaz Michel ~ _
   
  Monsieur Clayton! C'est magnifique!!! I just heard it on my notebook. Now you've got me in the hunt! Your contribution here is the very reason why I'm sharing my music library with you in the first place - it exposes and yields huge dividends! I'd be happy to find either digital or vinyl...gotta have it! I might have to send Kevin an email overnight.


----------



## Clayton SF

It came as a part of a demo disc from Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio when I got my PrimaLuna Dialogue Two integrated amp. The disc is bass-centric for the purpose of positioning speakers--BUT, headphones are a must for these songs, too!
   
  These are the selections:
   
  1. Rob Wasserman & Jennifer Waarnes - Ballad of the Runaway Horse
  2. Jill Scott - A Long Walk
  3. Grace Potter - Toothbrush & My Table
  4. Bonnie Rait - Baby Mine
  5. Rachel Farrell - Sister
  6. Diana Krall - Temptation
  7. Ava Cassidy - Fields of Gold
  8. Vienna Tang - Soon Love, Soon
  9. Dean Peer - Earth School
  10. Neil Young - Cowgirl in the Sand (acoustic)
  11. Melvin Taylor - Dirty Pool
  12. Jacques Loussier - Gavotte in D Major
*13. Jonaz Michel - Le Temps Passe*
  14. Aaron Copeland - Fanfair for the Common Man
   
  Ah, thank you for reminding me. I shall slip into dreamland with CD playing....
   
  Good night.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It came as a part of a demo disc from Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio when I got my PrimaLuna Dialogue Two integrated amp. The disc is bass-centric for the purpose of positioning speakers--BUT, headphones are a must for these songs, too!
> 
> These are the selections:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, Clayton. I definitely have Rachelle Farrell in my library ("Welcome To My Love" - 1993) - she's got a 6+ Octave range and can sing in Whistler range. Dogs bark, Dolphins dance...  :~)


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Not to come across as a holier than thou, because I'm certainly not without sin, but if you borrow a CD and rip it, that's a violation of copyright law. You are permitted to make an archival / backup copy. You are also allowed to "time shift" (i.e., record from a radio station for later listening). Put differently and more simplistically, if two people can listen to two separate recordings from the same original source, it's probably a copyright violation. Most people don't view it as stealing because the original recording hasn't been taken, but, in fact, it is. You are depriving the artist of revenues that would otherwise be his. Statements like "well, I wouldn't have bought it anyway" don't justify it. So even if you gave away the CDs and kept the originals, it would be a problem.
> 
> But Icenine2 raises a good question... if you have a copy of Sgt. Pepper and you want to buy the exact same recording on CD, you should be entitled to a discount (or perhaps free, for an on-line download) since you've already paid for a license. But the laws don't really work like that. Also, if you tried to justify a download of a different recording of the same music, keep in mind that the copyright doesn't just protect the music, but also the mixing, etc... so two different mixes of the same original tracks would have two different copyrights.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Since we're getting technical, I have a few questions if you have an opinion or know how the law applies exactly.
   
  The first one is pretty straightforward, what about archiving a CD on your HDD that you checked out from the library? Is there a distinction made for temporary use? The analogy would be photocopying a page from a copyrighted library book "for personal use". It's also tangential to the debate of whether to use an e-reader for college textbooks, where e-texts are cheaper than a new hard copy, but you can't sell them back to the bookstore when you are done with it, or purchase a used hard copy from that same store in the first place.
   
  Also, what about the distinction made for the profit motive, like if you give your CDs away as opposed to selling them after they are ripped?
   
  This last one is a little more convoluted: this fall Apple will be rolling out their iTunes Match feature as part of their new "iTunes in the Cloud" service. This "lets you store your entire collection, including music you’ve ripped from CDs or purchased somewhere other than iTunes...iTunes determines which songs in your collection are available in the iTunes Store. Any music with a match is automatically added to your iCloud library for you to listen to anytime, on any device. Since there are more than 18 million songs in the iTunes Store, most of your music is probably already in iCloud. All you have to upload is what iTunes can’t match...And all the music iTunes matches plays back at 256-Kbps iTunes Plus quality — even if your original copy was of lower quality."
   
  It competes with similar services from Google and Amazon, the main difference is with those services you have to upload your whole library for cloud playback. Apple will charge $25 per year, Amazon between $50 and $200, and Google hasn't announced a price yet. In the case of Amazon, it would be pretty easy to track you if you have the music in their cloud, and then use their online store to sell of your original CDs. Or with Google, they could track you with Gmail confirmations of CDs sold!
   
  So here's the question: After you upload your ripped library, can you theoretically sell off your original CDs and just use the cloud for $25 a year if you don't keep a local archive and still be technically within the law? Again, perhaps it would matter if you gave them away instead.
  I would imagine that it's all spelled out in their terms and conditions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  More of a thought exercise than a serious question, _as I would never do that._


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Not to come across as a holier than thou, because I'm certainly not without sin, but if you borrow a CD and rip it, that's a violation of copyright law. You are permitted to make an archival / backup copy. You are also allowed to "time shift" (i.e., record from a radio station for later listening). Put differently and more simplistically, if two people can listen to two separate recordings from the same original source, it's probably a copyright violation. Most people don't view it as stealing because the original recording hasn't been taken, but, in fact, it is. You are depriving the artist of revenues that would otherwise be his. Statements like "well, I wouldn't have bought it anyway" don't justify it. So even if you gave away the CDs and kept the originals, it would be a problem.
> 
> But Icenine2 raises a good question... if you have a copy of Sgt. Pepper and you want to buy the exact same recording on CD, you should be entitled to a discount (or perhaps free, for an on-line download) since you've already paid for a license. But the laws don't really work like that. Also, if you tried to justify a download of a different recording of the same music, keep in mind that the copyright doesn't just protect the music, but also the mixing, etc... so two different mixes of the same original tracks would have two different copyrights.
> 
> ...


 

 When I meant no one will come after you I was not speaking of pirating from the web.  
   
  Consider this scenario.  You go to the Goodwill or even perhaps the used CD/vinyl store and you buy something used there.  Is it a violation of copyright law?  Goodwill and the used CD store are not sending royalties in for those sales.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Since we're getting technical, I have a few questions if you have an opinion or know how the law applies exactly.
> 
> The first one is pretty straightforward, what about archiving a CD on your HDD that you checked out from the library? Is there a distinction made for temporary use? The analogy would be photocopying a page from a copyrighted library book "for personal use". It's also tangential to the debate of whether to use an e-reader for college textbooks, where e-texts are cheaper than a new hard copy, but you can't sell them back to the bookstore when you are done with it, or purchase a used hard copy from that same store in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
  My county library has acquired a huge  digital music library for e download.  I don't use it because the downloads are WMA Format
   
  http://maricopa.lib.overdrive.com/B82BF222-5217-43DB-944D-E866A1D67E8B/10/284/en/Browse30.htm
   
  Here are the rules

[size=9pt] Digital Rights Information[/size] 

 [td=colspan:2] *OverDrive Music*[/td] 
 [td] Burn to CD: [/td] [td] Not permitted[/td] 
 [td] [size=smaller] [/size][/td] 
 [td] Transfer to device: [/td] [td] Permitted[/td] 
 [td]    Transfer to Apple® device: [/td] [td] Permitted[/td] 
 [td] [size=smaller] [/size][/td] 
 [td] Public performance: [/td] [td] Not permitted[/td] 
 [td] File-sharing: [/td] [td] Not permitted[/td] 
 [td] Peer-to-peer usage: [/td] [td] Not permitted[/td] 
 [td] [size=smaller] [/size][/td] 
 [td=colspan:2] All copies of this title, including those transferred to portable devices and other media, must be deleted/destroyed at the end of the lending period.[/td]


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> the W4S has two pairs of balanced outputs, so one can go to my WA22 and the other to my speaker amp.  It also has two pairs of balanced inputs so I can go truly balanced through with the DAC-2 and whatever phonostage I can snag that has balanced outputs.
> 
> So far I like the W4S as it is clean and is a dual passive up from 0 to 63 and active from 64 to 80.  Also, I can set my W4S DAC output level to 60 and then feed the signal to the SE and deal with volume there which is more granular than the WA22.


 
  Mike do you own a W4S pre amp?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike do you own a W4S pre amp?


 

 And how is the DAC war going, are you keeping both the Bryston and the W4S?


----------



## cs16

Btw, because of you guys, I looked at my little CD collection and I changed my mind now.
   
  I'm gonna christen my amp with stevie wonder - live at last album. That's one of his best concert of all time imo.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike do you own a W4S pre amp?


 

 Yes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> And how is the DAC war going, are you keeping both the Bryston and the W4S?


 

 I kept the W4S and sent the BDA-1 back.  The BDA-1 is a really good DAC, and I especially liked the 192K upsampling feature.  However, I found the W4S DAC-2 more musical to my tastes.
   
  I'd also like to publically acknowledge the people at Audio Advisor.  When they invited me to try the BDA-1 (after I bought the BDP-1 and needed a digital cable) they said it was a no questions asked return policy.  When it came time to get an RMA, it was literally no questions asked.  They were just as polite, respectful and interested in what I had to say then as when a potential sale is happening.  I trust those guys.
  
  Can write more later, off to the gym.


----------



## FlyingBear

The first-sale doctrine covers this situation and it is _not _a violation of copyright law to buy and enjoy a used CD or LP, or for Goodwill to sell it. This is a limitation in copyright law that allows the resale or lending or giving away of a copyrighted work. Essentially, the copyright holder does not have the right to control the disposition of the work after (s)he first sells it to you.
   
  Libraries (which also lend books, not just CDs!) pretty much exist only because of the first-sale doctrine.
   
  The ripping of a CD that you own to various digital forms for your personal enjoyment is covered by fair use.
   
  Both the first-sale doctrine and various fair use rights have been attacked repeatedly by the entertainment industry. In its death throes, and its desperation, the music industry has made some pretty extreme statements which, unfortunately, went too far and lost them some ground, sympathy and credibility, e.g. that ripping CDs to listen to them on your iPod is illegal. The disintermediation of the record labels was rather painful for them: they just didn't adapt to digital fast enough. It's not clear if they could have adapted, unless they were willing to sacrifice their business model; that's very hard for any company or industry. Like most middle-men, they were largely unloved by those who paid them on both sides of the transaction. Artists still have to get paid, and they're finding other ways, e.g. direct distribution and more gigging.
   
  There are many ways for content owners to avoid first-sale and fair use issues, e.g. by licensing content to you with restrictive terms. The software industry has made an art of this.
   
  Disclaimer: IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and you should check the above with one if, for some reason, you intend to rely on it!
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> When I meant no one will come after you I was not speaking of pirating from the web.
> 
> Consider this scenario.  You go to the Goodwill or even perhaps the used CD/vinyl store and you buy something used there.  Is it a violation of copyright law?  Goodwill and the used CD store are not sending royalties in for those sales.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes.


 

 Is that a recent acquisition?


----------



## Nova13

*Thanks in advance for those who read this and respond - I really appreciate it.....................................*
   
  So I have recently starting trying to move away from computer based audio - I study with a computer all day, plus the internet is too damned distracting.  I'd like to step away from it in order to truly relax and listen.  Also I have a tidy CD collection I've inherited and I'd like to play those in a comfortable chair without a screen staring at me.
   
  I am hitting some major issues though.
   
  Currently I happily run a Xonar Essence STX soundcard from my desktop -->  Ack Dack! (older version, borrowing from my brother, its a non-upsampling battery-powered DAC for those unfamiliar) --> WA3 --> DT880/600's.  This sounds great to my ears!  And most importantly, it is DEAD SILENT, I hear no tube noise (with the right tubes that is - many thanks to John), no hum, no hiss, no RFI, just beautiful music.  
   
  Before buying a decent cd player (which I am eyeing the marantz CD5004), I wanted to try out the hypothetical setup using just a basic DVD player as a transport.  This sounded good in theory, but I get MAJOR hum/hiss/noise that I blame on the dvd players when I hook things up.  
   
   
  So, does it make sense that a source could cause a tremendous amount of hum?  Perhaps I should not even call it hum, its just terribly loud noise that overwhelms the music, you can barely hear it.  It increases with volume, and goes away when the source is unplugged (i/e its not a problem with my amp).  Please read on, as I have already attempted a few things to resolve my issue....

   

  So I think the dvd player is picking up then outputting an insane amount of hum/hiss/some kinda of awful noise.  I've never had any hum or noise when running my sound card as a source.  From searching, I find little complaints of folks getting hum from their sources.  I don't want to buy any sort of decent source if this may happen with it too.  Has anyone ever heard of a source introducing immense hum?

   

   

   

   

  I have tried different AC outlets, including the ones my computer uses (and my computer/soundcard is SILENT).  Also, all of these cheap sources use two-pronged plugs, so using a cheater cable is not something I can try..

   

  I have tried two cheap DVD players so far, both with the same horrid result:  Panasonic DVD-S35 and Sony DVP-SR200P.  I also tried a Sony Playstation 2 via optical out as well - same result!

   

  I've tried both players this way:  

  Digital out (via coax on the Sony, optical on the Panasonic) --> DAC --> amp

   

  as well as:

  DVD player R/W analog out --> amp

   

  I have tried multiple outlets all over my apartment, but the apartment is so small (850 square feet - Yay!) that* if *RFI is the problem, there is no escaping it.

   

  My best theory is this:  There is a massive RFI problem in my apartment that these cheap components are picking up.  I think my soundcard is well shielded - the Xonar STX advertises an RFI shield around the card, and thus explains why it is silent and the other cheap dvd players are not.

   

  Is there a way to rule out RFI as an issue?  Might I flip all my breakers but one and then have a listen?  Make a tin-foil anti-alien helmet for my source?  There are FOUR AC units right outside my house, perhaps I am just stuck in an RFI nightmare?

   

  So my questions for you all - 

  1.  what do you think of my theory?  Any other theories of your own?

  2.  Is there anything that can be done? - I was thinking of eventually getting one of these if I liked the whole idea of cd's - http://www.stereophile.com/content/marantz-cd5004-cd-player, but it would be unusable if it sounded remotely like these cheap dvd players.  But perhaps the marantz will also have no problems like my soundcard?

  3.  Would flipping all breakers (but one, obviously) R/O the possibility of RFI?  Or can this stuff penetrate through the walls from the neighbors, etc?

   

  Thanks for the help,

   

  Eric


----------



## grokit

Eric, even if your sources are 2-prong, a cheater plug/cable on your amplifier might help. Good luck!


----------



## Nova13

grokit and I discussed via pm that a cheater plug on the amp probably would not help. The system is silent when the source is my soundcard and thus it would mean the amp itself isn't to blame.  however, we decided it was worth a try - but I am sad to say that this did not change anything.  
   
  The song remains the same, so to speak...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Is that a recent acquisition?


 
  Just took delivery last week, Tuesday or Wednesday I think.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just took delivery last week, Tuesday or Wednesday I think.


 


  Wednesday. I arrived after your drop.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> *Thanks in advance for those who read this and respond - I really appreciate it.....................................*
> 
> So I have recently starting trying to move away from computer based audio - I study with a computer all day, plus the internet is too damned distracting.  I'd like to step away from it in order to truly relax and listen.  Also I have a tidy CD collection I've inherited and I'd like to play those in a comfortable chair without a screen staring at me.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you have CATV service? If so, two things I would put under observation: touch the coax connection in/around the cable box; touch coax connection on/around DVD player and see if the hum lessens or disappears altogether. If so, then you can proceed with Ground loop solutions...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I don't know Abraham Laboriel -- thanks very much for pointing me in his direction. Any specific recommendations for beginners (in addition to the album you mention above)?


 
   
http://www.amazon.com/Dear-Friends-Abraham-Laboriel/dp/B0000034C1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cs16 said:


> Btw, because of you guys, I looked at my little CD collection and I changed my mind now.
> 
> I'm gonna christen my amp with stevie wonder - live at last album. That's one of his best concert of all time imo.


 

 Wise choice... but what track shall be the first?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I'm looking forward to seeing the DVD (nice mention). Also, "Stevie Wonder Live: Natural Wonder" (Stevie, the Band & backup singers playing with the Tokyo Symphony Orchestra in Japan) is a must listen... _amazing!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> The first-sale doctrine covers this situation and it is _not _a violation of copyright law to buy and enjoy a used CD or LP, or for Goodwill to sell it. This is a limitation in copyright law that allows the resale or lending or giving away of a copyrighted work. Essentially, the copyright holder does not have the right to control the disposition of the work after (s)he first sells it to you.
> 
> Libraries (which also lend books, not just CDs!) pretty much exist only because of the first-sale doctrine.
> 
> ...


 

 In my view, The FlyingBear hit the Bull dead in his eye! The Majors actually could have adapted and done so well, considering the business model was outdated anyway. And the only leverage labels had left was in the vaults... eggs sold in different formats but never the golden goose! Addicted to the Gravy Train, they chose to fight instead... and lobbied. Every time I hear of Congress being "Lobbied," for some reason I picture the rear doors to the Brink's truck being swung open, with bags of cash being lobbed onto the steps of Congress. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The DMCA signed in 1998 had started out with good intentions to bring the U.S. up to World copyright standards and address the newer tech issues brought forth along with the Internet. But those bags of cash bought Congress a heavier hand - to lean on an ol' German proverb, _Threw the baby out with the bath water._ "Fair Use" for consumers suffered serious water damage inside listening rooms across America.
   
  Prior to 1998, "Fair Use" had a much better balance allowing all the parties - Labels, Artists, Electronic Cos. & Consumers to all thrive. Not saying protection with DMCA was not needed by creators of content. But that, an industry's influence unfairly eroded the rights of consumers, whose purchases allow for many a content companies existence in the first place. Wait, where's our representation for people v. lobbyists?! Most people will do the right thing most of the time; you'll always have insiders behaving corruptly and others outside the industry exploiting for profit.
   
  Parts or all of my viewpoint may come under heavy dispute (from those reading this post, not necessarily FlyingBear). My indifference only comes by way of dinner...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just took delivery last week, Tuesday or Wednesday I think.


 
  Another unit to burn in!  How do you like it so far?


----------



## Nova13

To follow up on my noise problem.
   
  I took the face plate off the outlet the dvd player was plugged into.  Plugged the DVD player back in.  Touching a bit of speaker wire from the chassis of the dvd player to the metal inside the outlet area totally removes the sound.
   
  Forgive my ignorance here - but did I just run a ground? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  or was this some sort of gypsy magic?
   
  And is there a way to do this in a semi-permanent manner?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> To follow up on my noise problem.
> 
> I took the face plate off the outlet the dvd player was plugged into.  Plugged the DVD player back in.  Touching a bit of speaker wire from the chassis of the dvd player to the metal inside the outlet area totally removes the sound.
> 
> ...


 

_Before Nova13 becomes a SuperNova, careful pokin' around that outlet! _
   
  Now that you survived that little adventure, finding a solution should come easy... with Google (or any search engine).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Another unit to burn in!  How do you like it so far?


 

 So far it is burning in and it is promising.  It's a passive/active preamp.  at 63 & below its passive and at 64 and above it's active.  Plus two pairs of balanced in and outs as as well.  I like it because I can dialin the best output performance for the DAC-2 and then use the preamp to deal with volume.
   
  Also picking up a pair of W4S SX-500 monoblocks for my Vandersteens.  Am selling my Audio Research VT100 MK III.


----------



## Nova13

the ground I run from the hardware of the player to the outlet metal undeniably fixes my problem.
   
  I am confused why the problem exists at all.  The dvd player is acting as a transport - does it make sense that RFI can be carried across the digital signal?  Can someone explain this to me?


----------



## grokit

I would attach the speaker wire to a chassis screw of the dvd player, then tape it to run along side the 2-prong cord, then use the screw that attaches the outlet plate to the outlet box, _without removing the cover for safety_. Edit: Using spade connectors for added professionalism.
   
  That's what I would do, but _I certainly won't advise you to do that_ because_ I am not qualified to do so_.


----------



## Nova13

Is it fair to say that a higher quality unit (Marantz CD5004) probably will not have this issue?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Am selling my Audio Research VT100 MK III.


 

 Are you sure you want to do that?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Are you sure you want to do that?


 

 Absolutely.  What is your thinking?


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> You've got a tube issue. Either your driver or power tube.
> 
> Next up, change just one of the tubes (either your driver or power tube...not both)....whatever side you hear the problem, has the problematic tube.


 


  Looks like it's the driver tube, wonder how this happened since there is no sign of dying sound, it plays normally when music is on...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





cs16 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Since I'm new here, I want to say hello!
> I just bought used WA6 last Saturday. So soon enough, I'm gonna be the proud owner of WA6!!
> ...


 

 EML 274b? I thought it's more expensive the sophia's


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> *Thanks in advance for those who read this and respond - I really appreciate it.....................................*
> 
> So I have recently starting trying to move away from computer based audio - I study with a computer all day, plus the internet is too damned distracting.  I'd like to step away from it in order to truly relax and listen.  Also I have a tidy CD collection I've inherited and I'd like to play those in a comfortable chair without a screen staring at me.
> 
> ...


 
  Might be the vibration of the dvd player you had , if that didn't happen to you with your computer, or the wires. and I could tell you that a decent cd transport will sound better than a typical dvd player. In my case i found the theta is just much better than my sacd player as a redbook transport. You'd better look for a dedicated cd transport in you plan to use ur dac, or, there is someone selling a Cambridge audio Azure 840c cd player for like 8-900 dollars, that thing is a steal at that price. And you can consider it as upgraded source since it's also a awesome dedicated DAC and it offer a lot features too. I almost got that one instead of the DAC-2


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Absolutely.  What is your thinking?


 
  Sorry Mike, just being nostalgic I guess for like equipment that I've sold and then later on wished I hadn't.  but I was surprised to see you go solid state after having a tube amp.  Are you going to keep the Audio Research and see if you like the W4S monos or are you going to part with it first?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Sorry Mike, just being nostalgic I guess for like equipment that I've sold and then later on wished I hadn't.  but I was surprised to see you go solid state after having a tube amp.  Are you going to keep the Audio Research and see if you like the W4S monos or are you going to part with it first?


 

 I've never made the sonic distinction of tubed vs. solid state as I've always related to the hardware and how it sounds. 
   
  I'm going to listen to the mono's that come from W4S and break them in first and then will decide.  My plan now is to fund the mono blocks with the sale of the VT100.  But, if the mono blocks suck (which I doubt), I'll sell them instead.
  
  Ever since I changed my equipment stack to listen to hi-rez music, my system has been plagued by brightness and harshness.  I'm still wrestling with it.  I kept the Wadia i170 and DLIII and if I can't get rid of the brightness and harshness, I'm going to just sell everything and go back to my original stuff.  The WA22, i170 & DLIII sounds PLEANTY good with 16/44.1 Apple lossless.


----------



## Icenine2

Anyone here have the new/newer LCD2 rev2's?  Opinion?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Anyone here have the new/newer LCD2 rev2's?  Opinion?


 

 Here is my opinion.  http://www.head-fi.org/products/audeze-lcd-2-planar-magnetic-headphones/reviews/5334
   
   
    since I wrote it I have become even more enamored with the r.2.   Then around 240 hours of burn in the r.2s took a leap forward in sonics.  Everything got much more dimensional and relaxed.  When this happened I posted this finding in the LCD forum ready to take all the flak from the non burn in believers.  But I know what I heard so I posted it.  Then a few posts later someone wrote that Alex and Sankar had spoken with a friend of his and they stated 200-300 hours burn in for the LCD to come into it's own.  I have found this to be definitely true.
   
  I was unhappy with the r.1 and was going to sell my amp and LCD's and get out of headphones altogether.  There simply wasn't enough return for my buck for me with the r.1.  It fell short of my expectations even though it did sound so enticing.  I no longer feel this way.  I reach for the r.2 now while I have a track playing on my speaker rig and wonder how it will sound on the r.2.  Then I just leave them on and ignore the speakers.  That's something I didn't think was possible.
   
  Remember, with the new r.2 drivers burn in is key.  Right out of the box you will be disappointed.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I've never made the sonic distinction of tubed vs. solid state as I've always related to the hardware and how it sounds.
> 
> I'm going to listen to the mono's that come from W4S and break them in first and then will decide.  My plan now is to fund the mono blocks with the sale of the VT100.  But, if the mono blocks suck (which I doubt), I'll sell them instead.
> 
> Ever since I changed my equipment stack to listen to hi-rez music, my system has been plagued by brightness and harshness.  I'm still wrestling with it.  I kept the Wadia i170 and DLIII and if I can't get rid of the brightness and harshness, I'm going to just sell everything and go back to my original stuff.  The WA22, i170 & DLIII sounds PLEANTY good with 16/44.1 Apple lossless.


 
  When you find the right balance it can be so hard to keep.  I had a system once that I really enjoyed, but no, I had to play around, I had to change, and instead of going back to the sound I so enjoyed I just continued to throw more money at the system to no avail. Probably $15-20K or more.  ALl I had to do was go back.     Now I sometimes walk around the world and I just shout out "IDOIT" to myself.  Just to remind me that I am one.


----------



## BrucYSN

thread hijacking lol
   
  Dose anyone use Ken-rad vt-231 on their amp? are the black glass and clear class same thing?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Sorry to hijack.  This is one of the most diverse threads around I think.  Seems the Woo owners have a wide net of interests.   I'm hoping to be a Woo owner by summers end.


----------



## BrucYSN

WA, you can not hijack my hijack


----------



## Silent One

Woo Audio Owner Unite _is a diverse thread of amicable quality, I might add..._


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Woo Audio Owner Unite _is a diverse thread of amicable quality, I might add..._


 
  Yes this is true.


----------



## cs16

I just received my WA6 today, but still don't have time to audition it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Have to wait til weekend


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> thread hijacking lol
> 
> Dose anyone use Ken-rad vt-231 on their amp? are the black glass and clear class same thing?


 

 Yes and no, depending upon the plate construction.  The clear glass with staggered/offset plate alignment should sound the same as the black glass, and are usually cheaper to boot.  The ones whose plates are aligned perfectly parallel to each other to form a square are from when GE had taken over the Ken Rad operation.  These do not sound as good as the offset plate version, which are the earlier/older ones.  The blackglass all have the offset plates.  As for sound, these are one of the few 6SN7 I have not yet heard myself.  I have so many now I just don't feel the need to explore what is left.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> When you find the right balance it can be so hard to keep.  I had a system once that I really enjoyed, but no, I had to play around, I had to change, and instead of going back to the sound I so enjoyed I just continued to throw more money at the system to no avail. Probably $15-20K or more.  ALl I had to do was go back.     Now I sometimes walk around the world and I just shout out "IDOIT" to myself.  Just to remind me that I am one.


 
  I've spent about $4-5K on NOS tubes. I have stopped tube rolling. I have placed all of those tubes in three boxes. I've shoved one of them them in a closet, another under the bed, and one under a desk. Except for an occasional swap between two types of power tubes (just for the heck of it) I haven't looked at them nor have I thought about using any of them in about 4 months. Lately I've spent more time with my ss Beta 22 that Corey Warner of SWA built than with tube amps--except maybe my speaker system which is Decware.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've spent about $4-5K on NOS tubes. I have stopped tube rolling. I have placed all of those tubes in three boxes. I've shoved one of them them in a closet, another under the bed, and one under a desk. Except for an occasional swap between two types of power tubes (just for the heck of it) I haven't looked at them nor have I thought about using any of them in about 4 months. Lately I've spent more time with my ss Beta 22 that Corey Warner of SWA built.


 
  I had a number of  tube power amps in the late 80's early 90's but I didn't roll anything.  I didn't even know you could do that back then.  I thought you just replaced a tube with the same tube if it failed.  There was no internet back then to find out about rolling!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cs16 said:


> I just received my WA6 today, but still don't have time to audition it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  (minutes lost x number of nights = sneak preview)
   
  How's is that possible?! It's Wednesday across the Pond. Considering the minutes of lost sleep each night due to 'Woo' anxiety, you might as well have a sneak preview.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yes and no, depending upon the plate construction.  The clear glass with staggered/offset plate alignment should sound the same as the black glass, and are usually cheaper to boot.  The ones whose plates are aligned perfectly parallel to each other to form a square are from when GE had taken over the Ken Rad operation.  These do not sound as good as the offset plate version, which are the earlier/older ones.  The blackglass all have the offset plates.  As for sound, these are one of the few 6SN7 I have not yet heard myself.  I have so many now I just don't feel the need to explore what is left.


 


  From What I've seen they all parallel between the plates... although it's hard to see through the black glass . For the clear glass, if see it from the top，the pins of the plate and the top form a Parallelogram or rectangle rather than a square


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Sorry to hijack.  This is one of the most diverse threads around I think.  Seems the Woo owners have a wide net of interests.   I'm hoping to be a Woo owner by summers end.


 


   


  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> WA, you can not hijack my hijack


 


 My name is Jack, hi back!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MacedonianHero

brucysn said:


> Looks like it's the driver tube, wonder how this happened since there is no sign of dying sound, it plays normally when music is on...




Tubes just die from time to time. At least there's nothing wrong with your WA22.


----------



## jerico

I've been noticing the past few nights that my headphone rig has been sounding very, very good - better than just a week or so ago. I thought I was past the break-in stage but now I'm thinking not - it sounded very good before, but it has definitely improved. I probably have 150-175 hours on the 22 and my W4S DAC2 (less on the LCD2 - probably closer to 100-125 hours there). I tube swapped a lot in the beginning, but the set I'm using now have been there for a couple of months now.

I guess these aren't a ton of hours - I don't think I've averaged an hour a night since the rig was new (around Christmas for the amp/DAC and a month or so lat on the LCD2).

What do you guys think?


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> I've been noticing the past few nights that my headphone rig has been sounding very, very good - better than just a week or so ago. I thought I was past the break-in stage but now I'm thinking not - it sounded very good before, but it has definitely improved. I probably have 150-175 hours on the 22 and my W4S DAC2 (less on the LCD2 - probably closer to 100-125 hours there). *I tube swapped a lot in the beginning, but the set I'm using now have been there for a couple of months now.*
> 
> I guess these aren't a ton of hours - I don't think I've averaged an hour a night since the rig was new (around Christmas for the amp/DAC and a month or so lat on the LCD2).
> 
> What do you guys think?




What tubes did you settle in on? Just curious.


----------



## jerico

macedonianhero said:


> What tubes did you settle in on? Just curious.




Chatham 5998 + Sylvania VT231 + EML 5U4G. Sometimes I swap a TungSol 5U4G/GB as well - but I find this combo working very well with the LCD2 (though the same combo was way too bright for my T1s).


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> Chatham 5998 + Sylvania VT231 + EML 5U4G. Sometimes I swap a TungSol 5U4G/GB as well - but I find this combo working very well with the LCD2 (though the same combo was way too bright for my T1s).




Interesting...thanks. I'll have to give my TS5998s another try. I preferred them in my WA2, but in my WA22, I seem to prefer my TS7236 or Sylvania 7236s. I've settled on the Raytheon 5U4G rectifier tube. I'm still rolling the driver tubes though. My Sylvania 6SN7s are great, but I do have a pair of Tung-Sol's coming in next week.


----------



## BrucYSN

"Chatham 5998 + Sylvania VT231 + EML 5U4G. Sometimes I swap a TungSol 5U4G/GB as well - but I find this combo working very well with the LCD2 (though the same combo was way too bright for my T1s)."
  Was the chatman similar to tugsol 5998? 
  Any way you can post pic of the sly vt-231 you got, i got a pair of Sly vt-231, not exactly as i expected though...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I've been noticing the past few nights that my headphone rig has been sounding very, very good - better than just a week or so ago. I thought I was past the break-in stage but now I'm thinking not - it sounded very good before, but it has definitely improved. I probably have 150-175 hours on the 22 and my W4S DAC2 (less on the LCD2 - probably closer to 100-125 hours there). I tube swapped a lot in the beginning, but the set I'm using now have been there for a couple of months now.
> 
> I guess these aren't a ton of hours - I don't think I've averaged an hour a night since the rig was new (around Christmas for the amp/DAC and a month or so lat on the LCD2).
> 
> What do you guys think?


 

 Well the W4S DAC-2 needs a long burn in. I know my unit changed it's sonic character with burn in.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> From What I've seen they all parallel between the plates... although it's hard to see through the black glass . For the clear glass, if see it from the top，the pins of the plate and the top form a Parallelogram or rectangle rather than a square


 

 Parallelogram is a good way of putting it.  These are the more desirable ones.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Was the chatman similar to tugsol 5998?


 


  They should be the same tube.  Tung Sol was the only manufacturer of the 5998.  We can thank Skylab for spreading this very useful piece of information originally.  
   
  There are a few variations on the Sylvania VT-231, but they should all have the same plate style.  I've tried a number of different Sylvania tubes, but the original VT-231 isn't one of them since they have a reputation for light bass (not a good thing with my headphones) and because the various 3-hole plate Sylvanias from the early 50's are generally regarded as being superior overall.  Not all of them I should mention, but some of them are..... or some the reputations say anyway.  I like my Bad Boys quite a bit, but the real keepers have been some short base chrome tops from '52 which were made on the same tooling as the metal base tubes (I believe, it's so hard to be sure about any of this).  The reputation on this tube doesn't seem to reflect my opinion, but I think I may have something different or more rare than people realized when I was talking about it.  When I consider my collection as a whole, it is the black glass tung sols, then these, then everything else.  I hold them in very high regard and since I managed to get two pair I'm running one full time now.  It's a shame that pair has electrical/noise issues, but they aren't bad enough to stop me from using them. 
   
  There are quite a few variations out there for the Sylvania tubes if you spend some time looking, more so than most other brands.  It's worth it to hunt down the great ones IMO.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I've been noticing the past few nights that my headphone rig has been sounding very, very good - better than just a week or so ago. I thought I was past the break-in stage but now I'm thinking not - it sounded very good before, but it has definitely improved. I probably have 150-175 hours on the 22 and my W4S DAC2 (less on the LCD2 - probably closer to 100-125 hours there). I tube swapped a lot in the beginning, but the set I'm using now have been there for a couple of months now.
> 
> I guess these aren't a ton of hours - I don't think I've averaged an hour a night since the rig was new (around Christmas for the amp/DAC and a month or so lat on the LCD2).
> 
> What do you guys think?


 

 Hours of operation ~
   
  The sign in the window suggests your wait time for the DAC/Amp is only half way over. Say you had a weekday off and decided to visit the mall (Kings Plaza Shopping Center or Manhattan Mall). You leave the cafe nearby with Latte & The Times in tow and arrive at the mall just as the doors open each day at 7 am. Some customers come early to read, sip and relax... just like you did. The bookstore opens at 9 am with the rest of the stores opening at 10 am. 
   
  You're there to visit the Woo Audio candy boutique for Champagne Truffles, so right around 10 o'clock you walk up to the door and notice the hours of operation: 11 am - 7 pm. Although it seems you've been waiting a long time, you realize you're getting close. Rather than walk away, you decide to browse knowing the truffles are worth the wait! And when you reach 300-400-500 hours, what to do next? Call your friends up, it's a Potluck!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well the W4S DAC-2 needs a long burn in. I know my unit changed it's sonic character with burn in.


 

 I just reached 308 hours early this morning with my W4S DAC-1 and it too, is still changing. 2 August, I may return it for the Low ESR "Super Caps." Then I'll have to watch the ODO all over again...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> They should be the same tube.  Tung Sol was the only manufacturer of the 5998.  We can thank Skylab for spreading this very useful piece of information originally.
> 
> There are a few variations on the Sylvania VT-231, but they should all have the same plate style.  I've tried a number of different Sylvania tubes, but the original VT-231 isn't one of them since they have a reputation for light bass (not a good thing with my headphones) and because the various 3-hole plate Sylvanias from the early 50's are generally regarded as being superior overall.  Not all of them I should mention, but some of them are..... or some the reputations say anyway.  I like my Bad Boys quite a bit, but the real keepers have been some short base chrome tops from '52 which were made on the same tooling as the metal base tubes (I believe, it's so hard to be sure about any of this).  The reputation on this tube doesn't seem to reflect my opinion, but I think I may have something different or more rare than people realized when I was talking about it.  When I consider my collection as a whole, it is the black glass tung sols, then these, then everything else.  I hold them in very high regard and since I managed to get two pair I'm running one full time now.  It's a shame that pair has electrical/noise issues, but they aren't bad enough to stop me from using them.
> 
> There are quite a few variations out there for the Sylvania tubes if you spend some time looking, more so than most other brands.  It's worth it to hunt down the great ones IMO.


 

 Greetings Xcalibur255 ~
   
  I believe about a month ago you were going to return here with a pix for the Syl short-base chrome tops from '52. If I am mistaken, the desire to see them remains...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> When you find the right balance it can be so hard to keep.  I had a system once that I really enjoyed, but no, I had to play around, I had to change, and instead of going back to the sound I so enjoyed I just continued to throw more money at the system to no avail. Probably $15-20K or more.  ALl I had to do was go back.     Now I sometimes walk around the world and I just shout out "IDOIT" to myself.  Just to remind me that I am one.


 

 I am going to keep pushing through to the end here.  I've got my R1 system (iPod/Wadia i170/DLIII) going and it is so totally smooth and sweet both with the VT100 and HD800.  My R2 system (BDP-1/W4S) is too bright with both my HD800 and VT100, however there is not that jittery smearing I heard with the PWD or Touch.  Furtheremore there is more detail at both the top and bottom end and more dynamics going on so it is worth the effort right now. 
   
  I'm going to take in the sound of the W4S 500's and I'm going to try a pair of the LCD-2 with their new drivers (read your review - nice).  If I can't get the system to settle down, I going to sell everything new I bought and keep my old stuff as that is really honey to my ears.  If it does not work out it's a shame because there is a lot in the hi-rez world I'd like to explore, but maybe my ears just are not built for it.  I keep scratching my head because I have read that people lose high frequency hearing the older we get, but as I am in my 60's I think my retrograde nature is going the opposite way and I am hearing more.  When I got out of the Navy at the end of the Viet-nam war, I had high frequency hearing loss revealed in my release physical because of my time on the USS Enterprise flight deck.
   
  At any rate, it's been a frustrating period going from one piece of equipment to another, However I think that August will be the month it all gets resolved because by then everything will have broken in and I'll know what stays and what goes.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings Xcalibur255 ~
> 
> I believe about a month ago you were going to return here with a pix for the Syl short-base chrome tops from '52. If I am mistaken, the desire to see them remains...


 
  I thought we were going to see the ultimate Bad Boy comparison at some point


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I thought we were going to see the ultimate Bad Boy comparison at some point


 

 Hopefully, Xcalibur255 is finishing up with priorities and that we'll see something by the end of the week. Instead of buying 3 gallons of gas for The Bluesmobile, I chose the $15 French butter for the popcorn & review (_The Ultimate Bad Boy comparison..._).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I am going to keep pushing through to the end here.  I've got my R1 system (iPod/Wadia i170/DLIII) going and it is so totally smooth and sweet both with the VT100 and HD800.  My R2 system (BDP-1/W4S) is too bright with both my HD800 and VT100, however there is not that jittery smearing I heard with the PWD or Touch.  Furtheremore there is more detail at both the top and bottom end and more dynamics going on so it is worth the effort right now.
> 
> I'm going to take in the sound of the W4S 500's and I'm going to try a pair of the LCD-2 with their new drivers (read your review - nice).  If I can't get the system to settle down, I going to sell everything new I bought and keep my old stuff as that is really honey to my ears.  If it does not work out it's a shame because there is a lot in the hi-rez world I'd like to explore, but maybe my ears just are not built for it.  I keep scratching my head because I have read that people lose high frequency hearing the older we get, but as I am in my 60's I think my retrograde nature is going the opposite way and I am hearing more.  When I got out of the Navy at the end of the Viet-nam war, I had high frequency hearing loss revealed in my release physical because of my time on the USS Enterprise flight deck.
> 
> At any rate, it's been a frustrating period going from one piece of equipment to another, However I think that August will be the month it all gets resolved because by then everything will have broken in and I'll know what stays and what goes.


 


  LCD-2 (r.2) 
   
  I don't know anyone in the East Bay yet with spec r.2 - will have to return to your place in August if I'm to hear them. By the way, you've been changing gear in & out of your listening room as often as they change window displays on Rodeo Drive!


----------



## Icenine2

Is that something W4S is offering as an upgrade or just your upgrade?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I just reached 308 hours early this morning with my W4S DAC-1 and it too, is still changing. 2 August, I may return it for the Low ESR "Super Caps." Then I'll have to watch the ODO all over again...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Is that something W4S is offering as an upgrade or just your upgrade?


 

 The Super Caps are stock for you DAC-2 owners; optional for us DAC-1 owners. Although, I just received a reply from W4S that some early '1' models were mistakenly shipped with them. And asked that I check because I might have gotten lucky. Just went to bed at 0800 (still sleepy). Will lie back down and check the second time I awake... wish me luck!


----------



## Icenine2

Luck!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I am going to keep pushing through to the end here.  I've got my R1 system (iPod/Wadia i170/DLIII) going and it is so totally smooth and sweet both with the VT100 and HD800.  My R2 system (BDP-1/W4S) is too bright with both my HD800 and VT100, however there is not that jittery smearing I heard with the PWD or Touch.  Furtheremore there is more detail at both the top and bottom end and more dynamics going on so it is worth the effort right now.
> 
> I'm going to take in the sound of the W4S 500's and I'm going to try a pair of the LCD-2 with their new drivers (read your review - nice).  If I can't get the system to settle down, I going to sell everything new I bought and keep my old stuff as that is really honey to my ears.  If it does not work out it's a shame because there is a lot in the hi-rez world I'd like to explore, but maybe my ears just are not built for it.  I keep scratching my head because I have read that people lose high frequency hearing the older we get, but as I am in my 60's I think my retrograde nature is going the opposite way and I am hearing more.  When I got out of the Navy at the end of the Viet-nam war, I had high frequency hearing loss revealed in my release physical because of my time on the USS Enterprise flight deck.
> 
> At any rate, it's been a frustrating period going from one piece of equipment to another, However I think that August will be the month it all gets resolved because by then everything will have broken in and I'll know what stays and what goes.


 
  People may lose some high frequency hearing as they age but I do not believe it is enough to alter one's view of the sonic landscape since it is only the very upper regions and the loss is not complete it is only a small fall off.   Plus audiophiles have one thing that most others do not have.  We have a practiced sense of aural perception.  Most non audiophiles do not have our heightened sense.  We are far more acutely aware of what is happening throughout the spectrum than the average person.  
   
  The weakest link in our hobby is the recording.  So many recording are simply bad.  We tend to have far better equipment and resolving ability than most of the recording houses have.   We hear the stuff the ENG.s usually do not hear.  Hard to believe but it is true.  So more hi rez, more resolving power will most times mean we will be hearing a lot more than what was ever heard when the tracks were recorded.
   
  As far as the LCD r.2 is concerned there will be more resolving power than the R.1.  The r.1 is more forgiving since it sort of ignored the very region where recording have the most artifacts.  The r.2 doesn't introduce these artifacts it just hands them over to your ears if they are on the recording.   The LCD-2 r.2 has the same brand sound as the r.1 but as more and time on the r.2 goes by it becomes clear it is a different headphone.  I won't say better or worse because that's the realm of preferences.  I do prefer the r.2 more than the r.1 though.  Both are compelling.
   
  As for the W4S DAC-2 I don't find it harsh or digital in anyway, just truthful.  sometime when I read that some folks haven't noticed the improved soundstage of the LCD-2 r.2 I have to think it may be that perhaps their source isn't sending them the soundstage they need.  I think the DAC-2 delivers a very good representation of the soundstage along with excellent detail retrieval. Retrieval which isn't artificial or manufactured.
   
  But what does anything matter in the end if one's ears do not get what they yearn for.  That's the key to all this craziness. The inner has it's own yearning which drives us all.  In the end it's what needs to be satisfied.


----------



## jerico

brucysn said:


> "Chatham 5998 + Sylvania VT231 + EML 5U4G. Sometimes I swap a TungSol 5U4G/GB as well - but I find this combo working very well with the LCD2 (though the same combo was way too bright for my T1s)."
> Was the chatman similar to tugsol 5998?
> Any way you can post pic of the sly vt-231 you got, i got a pair of Sly vt-231, not exactly as i expected though...




Sure, I'll try to snap a photo tonight.

FWIW I tried a couple of different drivers, and found the Syvlania VT231 to be similar to the KenRad VT231 (which I also like). I didn't care much for the Treasures, especially for the price.

Keep in mind these selections are what I chose for the LCD2 - I had different preferences for my T1 but I rarely hook them up to the 22 anymore (I use them in my office now). The LCD2 are very addictive, given the right glass!

Now, as SilentOne is suggesting, I just need to get another 200-300 hours logged! I'm in no rush - if it continues to improve, all the better!

On a totally separate side not, I also have a Wavelength Brick en route to play with (it's intended for my speaker rig - I was considering a Cosecant but found a good deal on the Brick, so I'm using it as a guinea pig to see how I like the house sound). I'll hook it up to the Woo as well, for kicks (though no balanced out on it).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Luck!!


 


  Could not resist any longer, so I got up and checked (you knew I would!). No such luck (back to bed). Will have to empty the tea tins and send it back down the coast...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Sure, I'll try to snap a photo tonight.
> 
> FWIW I tried a couple of different drivers, and found the Syvlania VT231 to be similar to the KenRad VT231 (which I also like). I didn't care much for the Treasures, especially for the price.
> 
> ...


 

 You're on pace for a very exciting autumn and that's on top of the golden & scarlet leaves; pure maple syrup.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Super Caps are stock for you DAC-2 owners; optional for us DAC-1 owners. Although, I just received a reply from W4S that some early '1' models were mistakenly shipped with them. And asked that I check because I might have gotten lucky. Just went to bed at 0800 (still sleepy). Will lie back down and check the second time I awake... wish me luck!


 

 Fingers crossed - Luck.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> People may lose some high frequency hearing as they age but I do not believe it is enough to alter one's view of the sonic landscape since it is only the very upper regions and the loss is not complete it is only a small fall off.   Plus audiophiles have one thing that most others do not have.  We have a practiced sense of aural perception.  Most non audiophiles do not have our heightened sense.  We are far more acutely aware of what is happening throughout the spectrum than the average person.
> 
> The weakest link in our hobby is the recording.  So many recording are simply bad.  We tend to have far better equipment and resolving ability than most of the recording houses have.   We hear the stuff the ENG.s usually do not hear.  Hard to believe but it is true.  So more hi rez, more resolving power will most times mean we will be hearing a lot more than what was ever heard when the tracks were recorded.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your thoughts on the r2.
   
  I have some interesting information about hi-rez recordings and a free tool to look at recording quality.  When I have time I'll post links and some samples.


----------



## jerico

silent one said:


> You're on pace for a very exciting autumn and that's on top of the golden & scarlet leaves; pure maple syrup.


----------



## bergnerm

Ahhh, but you had to play around to begin with to find that system that you really enjoyed... and that's the curse. At any point in time, you never really know when you have "the best" or if something a little bit better is lurking around the corner. No need to be hard on yourself 
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> When you find the right balance it can be so hard to keep.  I had a system once that I really enjoyed, but no, I had to play around, I had to change, and instead of going back to the sound I so enjoyed I just continued to throw more money at the system to no avail. Probably $15-20K or more.  ALl I had to do was go back.     Now I sometimes walk around the world and I just shout out "IDOIT" to myself.  Just to remind me that I am one.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Ahhh, but you had to play around to begin with to find that system that you really enjoyed... and that's the curse. At any point in time, you never really know when you have "the best" or if something a little bit better is lurking around the corner. No need to be hard on yourself


 


 X2


----------



## mikemalter

I've searched this thread but can't find the post about where you can get fittings for GEC 6AS7G tubes to dampen microphonic effects.
   
  Anybody remember where to get those things?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Ahhh, but you had to play around to begin with to find that system that you really enjoyed... and that's the curse. At any point in time, you never really know when you have "the best" or if something a little bit better is lurking around the corner. No need to be hard on yourself


 
  the sad part of all this was I had found the sound I enjoyed in the beginning of my travels.  Now I'm thinking I found the headphone sound I enjoy at the beginning of this journey also.  The rest now is just curiosity that may lead to ruins again...


----------



## dmac03

herbie's audio lab?
   
  None of my tubes are significantly microphonic, so I don't own any to see if they fit my GEC 6AS7G's. However, I've seen others use this brand and they seem like good value.


----------



## vinyllp33

warriorant said:


> the sad part of all this was I had found the sound I enjoyed in the beginning of my travels.  Now I'm thinking I found the headphone sound I enjoy at the beginning of this journey also.  The rest now is just curiosity that may lead to ruins again...




When the famous architect Mies Van Der Rohe emigrated from Germany prior to WWII he had over 3000 art and design books; However he was only able to take 300 with him when he left. 

Of the 300 he ultimately came to the realize that only 30 were truly relevant but he would have never come to that conclusion without first having the owned the initial 3000.

This has been my mantra for building my system over the years, I have much less tied up into it currently than when it was at its most expensive apex, but I feel that I am now enjoying the best sound yet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> Ahhh, but you had to play around to begin with to find that system that you really enjoyed... and that's the curse. At any point in time, you never really know when you have "the best" or if something a little bit better is lurking around the corner. No need to be hard on yourself


 


  This is true. Although, I'm still an audio addict and music lover, understanding psychology and my emotions earlier in life have saved me untold thousands of $$$. No matter how the merry-go-round spins or how it ends, living in the moment with what I've got can be very satisfying. Formerly worked in Home Audio. Car Audio. Dealer discounts with both. And actually thought I'd reach the promise land quicker as a result.
   
  I witnessed associates and customers alike get their hands on the best. At times, the best of the best. What I saw repeatedly was immediate gratification and then... unhappiness. I actually got to the promised land only after I left the biz so I could focus more on graduating from college. And to raise funds, down-sized my gear tremendously. Despite having less resolving gear, I actually learned how to emotionally connect better with music. It was a true revelation.
   
  Don't get me wrong, I still lust after the good stuff. But I now understand the key to satisfaction no matter what the gear. Being a music lover can be a great first step!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> When the famous architect Mies Van Der Rohe emigrated from Germany prior to WWII he had over 3000 art and design books; However he was only able to take 300 with him when he left.
> 
> Of the 300 he ultimately came to the realize that only 30 were truly relevant but he would have never come to that conclusion without first having the owned the initial 3000.
> 
> This has been my mantra for building my system over the years, I have much less tied up into it currently than when it was at its most expensive apex, but I feel that I am now enjoying the best sound yet.


 

_Most definitely._


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> herbie's audio lab?
> 
> None of my tubes are significantly microphonic, so I don't own any to see if they fit my GEC 6AS7G's. However, I've seen others use this brand and they seem like good value.


 


  I use Herbie's and they work pretty well.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I use these dampers on my GECs.  No microphonics.  I haven't taken them off since I got them so can't remember if they changed the sound in any way.  I like what I hear so no reason to change.
  Quote: 





dmac03 said:


> herbie's audio lab?
> 
> None of my tubes are significantly microphonic, so I don't own any to see if they fit my GEC 6AS7G's. However, I've seen others use this brand and they seem like good value.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I thought we were going to see the ultimate Bad Boy comparison at some point


 


  Well, between then and now I went through a move to a new apartment and the death of both my old and new computers.  I didn't think there was still any interest....... since there is I might have to revisit this once some free time appears.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I use Herbie's and they work pretty well.


 

 Do you happen to have a link?  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


 


 Skylab, which set did you get, and would you get them again?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, between then and now I went through a move to a new apartment and the death of both my old and new computers.  I didn't think there was still any interest....... since there is I might have to revisit this once some free time appears.


 

 Hope things get better! And while new components do fail, to hear of your new computer's failure is still shocking... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now that I know you're reengaged with _The Ultimate Bad Boy comparison_, I feel better about getting my French butter!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The weakest link in our hobby is the recording.  So many recording are simply bad.  We tend to have far better equipment and resolving ability than most of the recording houses have.   We hear the stuff the ENG.s usually do not hear.  Hard to believe but it is true.  So more hi rez, more resolving power will most times mean we will be hearing a lot more than what was ever heard when the tracks were recorded.


 

 So true, and such a shame sometimes. But it keeps things interesting as once you find the music that you like the journey is far from over, as we then get to seek out the most ideal recording of that music.
   
   
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> I didn't care much for the Treasures, especially for the price.
> 
> Keep in mind these selections are what I chose for the LCD2


 

  I didn't care much for the Treasures the first time I tried them either, I didn't even realize that they were that expensive because they came in a big box of tubes that arrived with my secondhand WA22. But I'm glad I held onto them, because in the right combination with other tubes (Princess, Syl 7236) they are the best combo that I've heard yet with the LCD-2, and they are pleasing me with the HD800 as well which I didn't think was a possibility based upon my initial impressions with both headphones. I actually like them better than my TSRPBG's now, and haven't felt the urge to roll since.
    
   
  Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> Well, between then and now I went through a move to a new apartment and the death of both my old and new computers.  I didn't think there was still any interest....... since there is I might have to revisit this once some free time appears.


 

 Take your time, but please do!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Skylab, which set did you get, and would you get them again?
> 
> Thanks.


 


  I'm not Skylab, but I'm using the Ultrasonic RX-50 on my GEC 6AS7s.
   

   
  Note that different tubes require different sizes e.g. the 6SN7s use the RX-30, the GZ37/6080/7236 tubes use RX-40 and the EML 5U4G would use the RX-65. It is also possible to overdamp as well; after taking this photo I realised the CV1988 sounded a little dull with the dampers, so I took them off. But my Tung Sol round plates sounded better with dampers.


----------



## PanamaRed

Beautiful picture Kchew.


----------



## BrucYSN

Hijack again lol
   
  I know tubes make noise, it's normal, but would it be normal if only the hum/hiss come alone during playback but silent when music paused? 
   
  I got a pair of new tubes, it seems has a lot better clarity and detail but also developed some hum that i never noticed....


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I'm not Skylab, but I'm using the Ultrasonic RX-50 on my GEC 6AS7s.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that different tubes require different sizes e.g. the 6SN7s use the RX-30, the GZ37/6080/7236 tubes use RX-40 and the EML 5U4G would use the RX-65. It is also possible to overdamp as well; after taking this photo I realised the CV1988 sounded a little dull with the dampers, so I took them off. But my Tung Sol round plates sounded better with dampers.


 


  Where did you find the G.E.C 6AS7G?


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Beautiful picture Kchew.


 

 Thanks, I call this tube combination the "British Brown-Base Brigade". But dust really shows up well with this colour!
   
   
  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Where did you find the G.E.C 6AS7G?


 


 From ebay. I lost a few bids for GEC 6AS7s and 6080s from a certain UK seller, and when contacting him again regarding his 6080 tubes, he asked if he was interested in a pair of slightly used GEC 6AS7s without the cup base. Perhaps he was taking pity on me. They were cheaper than his previous stock, so I got them.
   
  On a somewhat related topic, has anyone compared the GZ34 and GZ37 rectifiers? I do like my GZ37, but I'm curious as to how different the GZ34 would be.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Do you happen to have a link?  Thanks.


 


   I have the Herbie's too but then I found these "Duende Criatura" tube rings that in my oprinion work better.
http://thetubestore.com/tuberings.html


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have the Herbie's too but then I found these "Duende Criatura" tube rings that in my oprinion work better.
> http://thetubestore.com/tuberings.html


 

 Greetings musicman59 ~
   
  When time permits, can you please expand on your experience between the two for us? Was something gained, lost, neutralized and/or corrected? (over dampening fears inside my listening room) As always, thanks!


----------



## jerico

I have mixed feelings on the Sylvania 7236 with the LCD2 - i generally find they sound a bit too warm, but for some music (like acoustic music, especially jazz) I think they sound great. But I keep going back to the 5998. I'll have to revisit the Treasure/Princess/Syl 7236 combo on the LCD2.

What kind of interconnects are you guys using?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I'm not Skylab, but I'm using the Ultrasonic RX-50 on my GEC 6AS7s.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that different tubes require different sizes e.g. the 6SN7s use the RX-30, the GZ37/6080/7236 tubes use RX-40 and the EML 5U4G would use the RX-65. It is also possible to overdamp as well; after taking this photo I realised the CV1988 sounded a little dull with the dampers, so I took them off. But my Tung Sol round plates sounded better with dampers.


 


  Those are what I am using as well, and yes I would get them again.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> *I have mixed feelings on the Sylvania 7236 *with the LCD2 - i generally find they sound a bit too warm, but for some music (like acoustic music, especially jazz) I think they sound great. But I keep going back to the 5998. I'll have to revisit the Treasure/Princess/Syl 7236 combo on the LCD2.
> 
> What kind of interconnects are you guys using?




I actually find the Slyvania 7236s the most SS-like sounding tubes for either the WA2 or WA22. I found the 6AS7/TS5998s on the warmer side in comparison.

What power tubes are you running?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I'm not Skylab, but I'm using the Ultrasonic RX-50 on my GEC 6AS7s.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that different tubes require different sizes e.g. the 6SN7s use the RX-30, the GZ37/6080/7236 tubes use RX-40 and the EML 5U4G would use the RX-65. It is also possible to overdamp as well; after taking this photo I realised the CV1988 sounded a little dull with the dampers, so I took them off. But my Tung Sol round plates sounded better with dampers.


 

 Kchew, thanks for the photo.  Also, thanks for sharing the details of your process.  I wanted to dampen my GEC 6AS7G as I moved my WA22 closer to me and as a result it's picking up my keystrokes on the keyboard.  I was thinking about damping my BGRP as well, but now that I see you are doing it, I'll try it.
   
  Nice photo by the way.  What 'phones are you running with that?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I have mixed feelings on the Sylvania 7236 with the LCD2 - i generally find they sound a bit too warm, but for some music (like acoustic music, especially jazz) I think they sound great. But I keep going back to the 5998. I'll have to revisit the Treasure/Princess/Syl 7236 combo on the LCD2.
> 
> What kind of interconnects are you guys using?


 

 Granite Audio's cables have been my goto interconnects and speaker cables for years, however Wyred 4 Sound has new interconnects that are PCOCC cables and seem to be on par with Granite Audio (I say seem to be because I am still breaking them in and have not done critical listening tests yet). 
   
  The W4S folks haven't even gotten these cables up on their website yet.  Clint asked me if I wanted to try a pair and let him know what I thought.  They are really good and I bought another pair.
   
  I can see why you like the 5998 with the LCD-2, that would make sense as they put out a lot of power.
   
  What interconnects are you using and what digital cable are you using?


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Kchew, thanks for the photo.  Also, thanks for sharing the details of your process.  I wanted to dampen my GEC 6AS7G as I moved my WA22 closer to me and as a result it's picking up my keystrokes on the keyboard.  I was thinking about damping my BGRP as well, but now that I see you are doing it, I'll try it
> 
> Nice photo by the way.  What 'phones are you running with that?


 


 Hi Mike, I'm running a HD800 with stock cable reterminated with a Neutrik 4-pin XLR. I've got a Whiplash Audio TWag cable with carbon 4-pin XLR coming soon, I can't wait to try it.
   
  If your WA22 is picking up keyboard strokes, you may want to consider getting some good footers and placing them under the amp. I'm using a trio of TAOC TITE-25MF (you can see one under the output jacks) and even without tube dampers, my amp is not fazed by my keyboard that's just one foot away. If that's still not enough, you can also consider an isolation platform like the TAOC SCB-RS35G that I use under my CDP. My countrymen who are on a tight budget use heavy Ikea wooden chopping boards instead with similar results.


----------



## PanamaRed

Does anyone know if there is a significant difference between the GEC 6AS7G brown-base and black-base?


----------



## jerico

macedonianhero said:


> I actually find the Slyvania 7236s the most SS-like sounding tubes for either the WA2 or WA22. I found the 6AS7/TS5998s on the warmer side in comparison.
> 
> What power tubes are you running?




My power tubes are 5998 - I find them a bit more sparkly than the Sylvania 7236 with LCD2.

I think on a previous go-around on this topic, Skylab had mentioned that Tung Sol 7236 were brighter-sounding than Sylvania 7236. I haven't had a chance to try a TS 7236 though.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> My power tubes are 5998 -* I find them a bit more sparkly than the Sylvania 7236 with LCD2.*
> 
> I think on a previous go-around on this topic, Skylab had mentioned that Tung Sol 7236 were brighter-sounding than Sylvania 7236. I haven't had a chance to try a TS 7236 though.




Funny, and I find them the exact opposite.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Does anyone know if there is a significant difference between the GEC 6AS7G brown-base and black-base?


 


  Where do you find a black base one?  I never see one before...


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> Granite Audio's cables have been my goto interconnects and speaker cables for years, however Wyred 4 Sound has new interconnects that are PCOCC cables and seem to be on par with Granite Audio (I say seem to be because I am still breaking them in and have not done critical listening tests yet).
> 
> The W4S folks haven't even gotten these cables up on their website yet.  Clint asked me if I wanted to try a pair and let him know what I thought.  They are really good and I bought another pair.
> 
> ...




I'm using Cardas Golden Reference interconnects. Digital cable is an Audioquest (Carbon, I think). I feel the sonic impact of digital cables is minimized by DACs that handle jitter well and by the use of memory playback. With the W4S DAC2 and PureMusic in memory play mode, my Audioquest sounds the same as the generic USB cable it came with. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here - just IMHO/YMMV/etc.

I do feel that interconnects can make a difference though. I've swapped my Cardas GRs out for others sets of XLRs that I have around (Audioquest King Cobra, Straightwire Rhapsody S) and I always go right back to the Cardas. I also prefer them in my speaker rig (where I have GR interconnects and speaker cables all around) - I feel they had a larger impact there, particularly the interconnect, and particularly the interconnect between my DAC and my preamp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Where do you find a black base one?  I never see one before...


 

 Me either, and I do not believe that there is one.  I would be careful there - the black base could be a Russian tube.  Post pics if you have them.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Me either, and I do not believe that there is one.  I would be careful there - the black base could be a Russian tube.  Post pics if you have them.


 

 That is my feeling too.  From my research, there only two versions, round brown base and straight brown base.


----------



## jerico

macedonianhero said:


> jerico said:
> 
> 
> > My power tubes are 5998 -* I find them a bit more sparkly than the Sylvania 7236 with LCD2.*
> ...





We may have different impressions, but clearly we both have impeccable taste!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I'm using Cardas Golden Reference interconnects. Digital cable is an Audioquest (Carbon, I think). I feel the sonic impact of digital cables is minimized by DACs that handle jitter well and by the use of memory playback. With the W4S DAC2 and PureMusic in memory play mode, my Audioquest sounds the same as the generic USB cable it came with. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here - just IMHO/YMMV/etc.
> 
> I do feel that interconnects can make a difference though. I've swapped my Cardas GRs out for others sets of XLRs that I have around (Audioquest King Cobra, Straightwire Rhapsody S) and I always go right back to the Cardas. I also prefer them in my speaker rig (where I have GR interconnects and speaker cables all around) - I feel they had a larger impact there, particularly the interconnect, and particularly the interconnect between my DAC and my preamp.


 

 I like Cardas for their headphone upgrade.  I'm also using the Cardas AES/EBU Digital Cable which was recommended by the guys at Audio Advisior when I got my BDP-1.  Haven't tried anything else in that slot, so I can't compare.  
   
  I do share your thoughts on interconnects, they really do make a difference.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> We may have different impressions, but clearly we both have impeccable taste!




Well said good sir.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Here is a tough question.  With the Woo WA2 is there a set of tubes that most people agree upon that is the best set for this amp?    Also how far from that sound of the supplied tubes can tube rolling improve the WA2.  Is it a small improvement or a fairly large one.


----------



## Icenine2

They look like little Robot Men.
  
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> I'm not Skylab, but I'm using the Ultrasonic RX-50 on my GEC 6AS7s.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that different tubes require different sizes e.g. the 6SN7s use the RX-30, the GZ37/6080/7236 tubes use RX-40 and the EML 5U4G would use the RX-65. It is also possible to overdamp as well; after taking this photo I realised the CV1988 sounded a little dull with the dampers, so I took them off. But my Tung Sol round plates sounded better with dampers.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Me either, and I do not believe that there is one.  I would be careful there - the black base could be a Russian tube.  Post pics if you have them.


 

 Maybe it's the picture (or my lackluster eyes) but they look black to me.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270784413190&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


----------



## Skylab

It's just the lighting.  Those are the straight brown base, just like in kchew's picture.  They sold for a pretty decent price, too...I have seen them go for far higher than that.


----------



## Golfnutz

[size=11pt]I find the TS5998 a bit to forward, resulting in a shallower sound stage. It gives me the impression I’m too close. Still a very nice tube. Although I have several pairs of Sylvania 7236, I feel the TS7236 is a bit cleaner, and sounds sweeter. If I had to pick between the TS5998 and TS7236, I’d take the TS7236. I like it even more than the GEC 6AS7. My least favorite is the Sylvania 6AS7 (a bit too lush), then the GE 6080 (pretty close to 7236 - closer to SS). Overall, I could easily live with any of them.[/size]


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings musicman59 ~
> 
> When time permits, can you please expand on your experience between the two for us? Was something gained, lost, neutralized and/or corrected? (over dampening fears inside my listening room) As always, thanks!


 


   I personally notice a marignal difference with the Herbie's then without them. With the Duende the microphonics were reduced more wihtout overdamping them. The soundstage got more focused meaning everything was easier to identified in its own place. I don't think anything was lost on air and openness of the sound.
   
  The only issue you coul dhave with the duende is with the tubes with "coke bottle" style. If they do not have a nice paralle area at the top where the ube gtes smaller it is difficult to make them stay in. For instance one of my EML 5U4G Mesh rectifiers can not hold it in place becuase the walls of the top area of the tube are tapered being wider at the bottom than at the top so the silicone ring slip upwards and gets disengaged. Other than that they work great IMO.
   
  In the picture of my WA5-LE below you can see them on the 300B tubes. I cn not use them or the Herbie's on the ECC32 due to space constraints but I use a 6SN7 then it is no problem and as you can see thi stime I was using the EML 5U4G Mesh and since they have the taper issue I am using a double silicon ring instead simulating the effect of the Duende.
   


   
  I have Herbie's for the 300B, Large 5U4G, Smaller 5U4G and 6SN7 that I would sell if somebody wants them. They are basically new.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I actually find the Slyvania 7236s the most SS-like sounding tubes for either the WA2 or WA22. I found the 6AS7/TS5998s on the warmer side in comparison.


 

 I am in general agreement here, but from my limited adventures in tube-rolling I think that it's quite hard to quantify how a given tube sounds in isolation; for me it's about how they sound in combination with each other.
   
   
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> My power tubes are 5998 - I find them a bit more sparkly than the Sylvania 7236 with LCD2.
> 
> I think on a previous go-around on this topic, Skylab had mentioned that Tung Sol 7236 were brighter-sounding than Sylvania 7236. I haven't had a chance to try a TS 7236 though.


 
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny, and I find them the exact opposite.


 
   
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> We may have different impressions, but clearly we both have impeccable taste!


 

 Awesome. While my impressions jive with Hero's, I would say it is different (and yes impeccable!) tastes that may be at work here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I would normally chalk up these differences to overall system synergy, but you guys are using the same source and both have LCD-2s so I find these differences interesting. Probably individual HRTFs at work again.
   
   
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> I have mixed feelings on the Sylvania 7236 with the LCD2 - i generally find they sound a bit too warm, but for some music (like acoustic music, especially jazz) I think they sound great. But I keep going back to the 5998. I'll have to revisit the Treasure/Princess/Syl 7236 combo on the LCD2.
> 
> What kind of interconnects are you guys using?


 
   
  If you do re-visit that combo please share your impressions, that is the setup that works for me but we are using a different source and that plays a big role. Is your LCD-2 the rev.1 or rev.2 (apologies if you have already pointed it out)?
   
  I don't even know the brand of the XLRs I am using from my DAC to my Woo, I will have to check but they sound good to me and are 4 meters long so I am in no hurry to re-visit them.

  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> [size=11pt]I find the TS5998 a bit to forward, resulting in a shallower sound stage. It gives me the impression I’m too close. Still a very nice tube. Although I have several pairs of Sylvania 7236, I feel the TS7236 is a bit cleaner, and sounds sweeter. If I had to pick between the TS5998 and TS7236, I’d take the TS7236. I like it even more than the GEC 6AS7. My least favorite is the Sylvania 6AS7 (a bit too lush), then the GE 6080 (pretty close to 7236 - closer to SS). Overall, I could easily live with any of them.[/size]


 

 Interesting. I haven't had a chance to try the TS 7236, but the Sylvanias sound great to me in my setup. I preferred the TS 5998 when I was mucking about with the EML 5U4G and the TSRP 6SN7s but was never satisfied with the sound out of the LCD-2, even though I found it sounded good with the HD800 if a bit on the euphonic side. I don't mess with the 1-volt power tubes at all anymore.


----------



## PanamaRed

Is there a sonic difference between the straight brown base and the more stubby looking ones?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's just the lighting.  Those are the straight brown base, just like in kchew's picture.  They sold for a pretty decent price, too...I have seen them go for far higher than that.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I wanted to dampen my GEC 6AS7G as I moved my WA22 closer to me and as a result it's picking up my keystrokes on the keyboard.  I was thinking about damping my BGRP as well, but now that I see you are doing it, I'll try it.


 
   
  I am glad that my Woo and turntable are in my basement office/mancave, as a cement slab is the mortal enemy of unwanted vibration. If I had this gear up in my attic bedroom I would definitely have to use a wall shelf for my turntable, and would probably be looking into tube dampers for my WA22 as well.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Is there a sonic difference between the straight brown base and the more stubby looking ones?


 

 Very hard to say.  If there is, it's very minor, but in favor of the older, rounded base version.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very hard to say.  If there is, it's very minor, but in favor of the older, rounded base version.


 

 Awesome, thanks as always for your response Skylab.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I personally notice a marignal difference with the Herbie's then without them. With the Duende the microphonics were reduced more wihtout overdamping them. The soundstage got more focused meaning everything was easier to identified in its own place. I don't think anything was lost on air and openness of the sound.
> 
> The only issue you coul dhave with the duende is with the tubes with "coke bottle" style. If they do not have a nice paralle area at the top where the ube gtes smaller it is difficult to make them stay in. For instance one of my EML 5U4G Mesh rectifiers can not hold it in place becuase the walls of the top area of the tube are tapered being wider at the bottom than at the top so the silicone ring slip upwards and gets disengaged. Other than that they work great IMO.
> 
> ...


 

 Appreciate the info. When I'm being marketed "_Bass is tighter, more controlled and focused_" I see that as a caution, because while the intent is good it doesn't always work out that way. My Raytheon's are not microphonic at levels that can be heard. But all things vibrate at some level and perhaps playback with the Rings could reveal a cleaner presentation. Will look in to the Duendes... not unless your Herbie's are at a price I can't stop staring at!
   
  I run a pair of Ray's 6SN7's & EML 5U4G Mesh Plate.


----------



## grokit

Here's an interesting overview and comparison of the various tube rings in case any interested parties missed it:
   
 _Tube_ Damper Comparisons   
  It could be considered biased considering the source, but I don't really think so as he even discusses various homemade alternatives using materials such as automotive hose and twist ties


----------



## jc9394

panamared said:


> Maybe it's the picture (or my lackluster eyes) but they look black to me.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270784413190&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT




Are you the lucky winner? Congrats, it is a killer deal. I think I paid over 4x that price.


----------



## atbglenn

Hello all, It's been over a year since I posted anything. Just want to say I'm still alive, and yes, I still have my Woo!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Hello all, It's been over a year since I posted anything. Just want to say I'm still alive, and yes, I still have my Woo!


 


 Glenn - glad to hear from you!  How are you doing these days?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Hello all, It's been over a year since I posted anything. Just want to say I'm still alive, and yes, I still have my Woo!


 

 Hey Glenn. Welcome back! It looks like you took some time off to drink the from the Fountain of Youth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You're looking great. So how's your WA6 doing? Have you added any items to your Woo arsenal since we last heard from you?


----------



## jerico

golfnutz said:


> [size=11pt]I find the TS5998 a bit to forward, resulting in a shallower sound stage. It gives me the impression I’m too close. Still a very nice tube. Although I have several pairs of Sylvania 7236, I feel the TS7236 is a bit cleaner, and sounds sweeter. If I had to pick between the TS5998 and TS7236, I’d take the TS7236. I like it even more than the GEC 6AS7. My least favorite is the Sylvania 6AS7 (a bit too lush), then the GE 6080 (pretty close to 7236 - closer to SS). Overall, I could easily live with any of them.[/size]




I agree with you on the forwardness of the 5998 - I do feel my Sylvania 7236 have a great soundstage.

I just threw them in actually...! They sound nice, but i'm listening to music that rally suits them (acoustic jazz, kinda). I'll switch the music later. I always say I tend to stop tube rolling after I find a com o I like but hey, who am I kidding... !


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Hello all, It's been over a year since I posted anything. Just want to say I'm still alive, and yes, I still have my Woo!


 


  Checking in is indeed appropriate, after months of looking in...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Glenn - glad to hear from you!  How are you doing these days?


 

 Hey Mike! it's been a while. Good to see you again. Nothing much happening here. Same ol s***, different day. Hows everything with you? 
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Glenn. Welcome back! It looks like you took some time off to drink the from the Fountain of Youth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Clayton, what's up buddy! Woo's been working great. Would you believe I haven't rolled any tubes in about a year?? Hows everything with you?? You don't have to answer, I'll give you a call tonight.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Checking in is indeed appropriate, after months of looking in...


 
   
  Hello SilentOne, I remember you. I hope all is well


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Hello SilentOne, I remember you. I hope all is well


 

 It is! I suppose my heart is healthy, after all, I'm still lusting for gear! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope your time away was positive in nature...


----------



## BrucYSN

what do you guys do with the tube noise? Although when the music paused it's dead silent, only slight hum during playback ..... ?


----------



## Arcamera

Any owners of the modest WA3 here?
   
  Would people recommend the stock tubes, or the tubes Jack recommends on his site, or something else?
   
  I already gave an arm and a leg, and I can't afford much more now, so I am thinking of pairing this with my newly acquired Beyer T1's.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Are you the lucky winner? Congrats, it is a killer deal. I think I paid over 4x that price.


 

 Yeah. I pulled the trigger. I have a pair of GEC 6080's already but wanted to see what the hype was all about with the 6AS7's.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> Hey Mike! it's been a while. Good to see you again. Nothing much happening here. Same ol s***, different day. Hows everything with you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wrestling with digital smearing and brightness after breaking out of my iPod/Wadia i170/DLIII walled garden.  Honey sweet sound that stack, and to play hi rez music I needed a new DAC to handle increased sample size, a digital player to play it all, and although I have higher resolution sources, sometimes the music is just a tad bright to enjoy.  Getting closer, but not quite there yet.  Am still loving my WA22 though.  Saving my old gear and will sell all the new stuff if I can't enjoy the sound.
  
  Good to "see" you again.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> what do you guys do with the tube noise? Although when the music paused it's dead silent, only slight hum during playback ..... ?


 

 I have a WA22 (although not modded) and it is dead silent.  Does the noise apper to sound like the rustling of leaves?


----------



## Silent One

This close to Autumn the "rustling of leaves" can only mean one thing... _F-o-o-t-b-a-l-l. _ I wonder if he tried two moves (chess?) - Moving the tube(s) to the other side; physically moving the amp to another location (temporary). If he has backup tubes now is the time for them to earn their keep.


----------



## grokit

Bring in the second string off the bench so to speak, you know they are ready to play!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Bring in the second string off the bench so to speak, you know they are ready to play!


 

 You know how they say "_Be careful what you ask for?_" Swapping may reveal two very important observations: the second string may illuminate a problem with your favorite tube; or given some play time it even upend the fav, with the fans screaming at the favorite tube "_Overpaid, overpaid!_" Sometimes, you really do need to evaluate the backups...


----------



## grokit

...and there's no substitute for a _real game situation_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ...and there's no substitute for a _real game situation_


 

 I've only had my Woo for a year and good fortune with tubes. I'm running a lean operation, stock tubes and NOS GE 6SN7GTA 1953's as backup. The only issue I eve had with tubes was a 6FD7 that came DOA. Sometimes, I wonder if Clayton SF or Skylab have a computerized database for their stashes.
   
  I'm happy to report that my Woo has been free of trouble as well. _What I do have trouble with and often is dirty AC!  _





  Battery power is on the horizon but meanwhile I'll fight with isolation alternatives...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Yeah. I pulled the trigger. I have a pair of GEC 6080's already but wanted to see what the hype was all about with the 6AS7's.


 
   
  You will love it with HD800 and JH16, Out all the tubes I have, the GEC 6AS7G is most noticeable when using my JH13.


----------



## Golfnutz

I'm really looking for an excuse to purchase the LCD-2 rev2 (I would wait until Fulcrum in Canada starts selling them). For the guy's that have the HD800 and LCD-2, is there that much of a difference? Is it worth to have both?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I'm really looking for an excuse to purchase the LCD-2 rev2 (I would wait until Fulcrum in Canada starts selling them). For the guy's that have the HD800 and LCD-2, is there that much of a difference? Is it worth to have both?


 


  it is hard to say, I like both but will probably sell the HD800 if given a choice I only can keep one.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> it is hard to say, I like both but will probably sell the HD800 if given a choice I only can keep one.


 

 JC, I know at one time you were only listening to the LCD-2. Has that since changed?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> JC, I know at one time you were only listening to the LCD-2. Has that since changed?


 

 yes, it is a mix right now but most of the head time is lcd-2.  in fact that i don't use the d7000 much i decided to sell it.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I use HD800 all of the time on my WA22 and LCD2 90% of the time on my Burson HA160D.  If I only had the Woo I would keep the HD800.  If I only had the Burson I would keep the LCD2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I use HD800 all of the time on my WA22 and LCD2 90% of the time on my Burson HA160D.  If I only had the Woo I would keep the HD800.  If I only had the Burson I would keep the LCD2.


 


  Hummm, I have to try LCD-2 on HA160D again tonight.  Like you HD800 on WA22 and but D7000 on HA160D.  Getting a beta22 soon to pair LCD-2.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sometimes, I wonder if Clayton SF or Skylab have a computerized database for their stashes.


 

 I do, actually.  I have my tube collection databased in Excel.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hummm, I have to try LCD-2 on HA160D again tonight.  Like you HD800 on WA22 and but D7000 on HA160D.  Getting a beta22 soon to pair LCD-2.


 


 Are you building it yourself? Why not a Leben?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do, actually.  I have my tube collection databased in Excel.


 

 I do as well. I have information like price, date purchased, contact into, etc. I try not to look at the AutoSum field.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a very basic spreadsheet. In fact I was looking at it this morning because I couldn't remember if I had any 6L6 or 6V6 tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I do as well. I have information like price, date purchased, contact into, etc. I try not to look at the AutoSum field.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Mine isn't that sophisticated.  Just tube type, maker, description, and how many of each I own.  Shows I own just over 850 tubes...


----------



## WindyCityCy

I use D7000 the other 10% on the Burson.  The LCD2 sound much better to me (on the high gain).
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hummm, I have to try LCD-2 on HA160D again tonight.  Like you HD800 on WA22 and but D7000 on HA160D.  Getting a beta22 soon to pair LCD-2.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I use D7000 the other 10% on the Burson.  The LCD2 sound much better to me (on the high gain).


 


 Stock cables on all pairs? I only ask because like tubes, HP cables can also influence the sound.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mine isn't that sophisticated.  Just tube type, maker, description, and how many of each I own.  Shows I own just over 850 tubes...


 

 Lucky Guy!  At a very generous price of $25.00 each, you're inventory is worth over $20k. At $40.00 each, you'd have $34K. Hope you have insurance....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Are you building it yourself? Why not a Leben?


 
   
  No, Corey from SWA is building it for me, too lazy to start a complicated project.  I was thinking about it but really want to try a killer SS on LCD-2 and maybe HE6 down the road.
  
   


  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I use D7000 the other 10% on the Burson.  The LCD2 sound much better to me (on the high gain).


 


  I do use high on LCD-2, but D7000 really shine with 160D.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do, actually.  I have my tube collection databased in Excel.


 
    
  Quote:


clayton sf said:


> I do as well. I have information like price, date purchased, contact into, etc. I try not to look at the AutoSum field.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 While it just so happens that I don't gamble. And the tea tins are empty._ I would have bet my last dollar that...   _


----------



## Silent One

Of late, I find the number of people shying away or flat-out running away from the D7000 to be amazing. Human nature to yearn for change, I suppose... and this doesn't even touched upon audio addiction yet!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mine isn't that sophisticated.  Just tube type, maker, description, and how many of each I own.  Shows I own just over 850 tubes...


 
  The contact info I have is just the seller's email address since most of my tubes are from ebay. Also I don't have nearly as many tubes as you.
  I ran a report:
   
  25% were free (gifts or included in the purchase of an amp)
  75% have a value
   
  Median price=$9.00
  Average price tubes=$16.62
  Least expensive tube=$1.71 (Mazda 6J7)
  Most expensive tube=$240.00 (ELM 5U4G)
   
  It's now lunch time here in San Francisco and I have about $15.00 in my pocket. I can't look at this spreadsheet any longer.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I'm really looking for an excuse to purchase the LCD-2 rev2 (I would wait until Fulcrum in Canada starts selling them). For the guy's that have the HD800 and LCD-2, is there that much of a difference? Is it worth to have both?


 

 I enjoy having both with my WA22, and listen to them about 60% LCD-2, 40% HD800 but that is due to musical more than headphone preference; I really do rate them about the same. If I could only keep one I would consider selling them both and try the LCD-2 rev.2, that may be the best compromise between the two.
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do, actually.  I have my tube collection databased in Excel.


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I do as well. I have information like price, date purchased, contact into, etc. I try not to look at the AutoSum field.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 These databases sound not only very useful for insurance purposes, but in case you end up liquidating them at some point or passing them on to your heirs. I've got less than two dozen and that's too many for me to keep track of lol.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Of late, I find the number of people shying away or flat-out running away from the D7000 to be amazing. Human nature to yearn for change, I suppose... and this doesn't even touched upon audio addiction yet!


 
  That's funny, but just this morning I was just looking into getting my first set of closed headphones and was thinking about the D7000. What is your theory behind people shying away from this headphone?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I'm really looking for an excuse to purchase the LCD-2 rev2 (I would wait until Fulcrum in Canada starts selling them). For the guy's that have the HD800 and LCD-2, is there that much of a difference? Is it worth to have both?


 

 I have an LCD-2 (r2) on order from ALO.  Should be here next week.  Also got their universal cable.


----------



## Szadzik

Well, I paid for my Wa2 yesterday, so it is time to subscribe to this thread.


----------



## Arcamera

I just purchased my first pair of the D7000's last week. I love them. The sound with the Burson amp is positively bodacious.
   
  But I still need to find the right amp for my T1's. I'm still considering the WA3...


----------



## WindyCityCy

I don't have stock cables on any of my headphones.  My cables are listed with my gear but I have an ALO RW8-S Chain Mail Balanced on the LCD2 and a ZXAC Truth Balanced on the D7000.  I do really like the D7000 with the Burson and at one point I actually considered it better than the LCD2.  I was using LCD2 on the Low Gain setting at that time and neither the Burson nor the LCD2 had much burn-in time.  At some point I decided the LCD2 was better.  Both sound great though.
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Stock cables on all pairs? I only ask because like tubes, HP cables can also influence the sound.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have an LCD-2 (r2) on order from ALO.  Should be here next week.  Also got their universal cable.


 

 Good to know, considering you didn't keep your rev1 pair. It will be interesting to see if the rev2's make a difference. I think WA suggested 200hrs break-in. Please let us know what you think.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Well, I paid for my Wa2 yesterday, so it is time to subscribe to this thread.


 

 No charge!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's funny, but just this morning I was just looking into getting my first set of closed headphones and was thinking about the D7000. What is your theory behind people shying away from this headphone?


 

 Nuthin' wrong with the Can; every headphone has an era. And every era for headphones (and gear in general) is one of adventure. Sometimes, the tea is loved and savored. Other times it's "yeah, but, the new XXX comes out next month..." I get all that, as well as personal tastes in cans, music and synergy with system, gear or tube changes. Plus, it takes a certain cat to love closed cans. The more I audition other cans, the more I understand the desire to have a few or several to satisfying one's tastes.
   
  Some members that have lost interest in the last couple of years with the D7000, have so man cans in their inventory that I can only smile when I inquiry "Well, how many hours do you have on them?" And they reply with something like "About 165." (Sigh) I vividly recall my D5000's getting just past the 1,200 hour mark and they completely changed - _they began to swing, baby! _I honestly wasn't expecting anymore out of them and at 1,900 hours I almost asked the seller to void the transaction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My D7000's are currently sitting at 470 hours and lovin' 'em!!!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I don't have stock cables on any of my headphones.  My cables are listed with my gear but I have an ALO RW8-S Chain Mail Balanced on the LCD2 and a ZXAC Truth Balanced on the D7000.  I do really like the D7000 with the Burson and at one point I actually considered it better than the LCD2.  I was using LCD2 on the Low Gain setting at that time and neither the Burson nor the LCD2 had much burn-in time.  At some point I decided the LCD2 was better.  Both sound great though.


 


 Duhhh, I was looking at your signature and didn't see anything. I should have looked just a bit further down (forest for the trees moment...). Thanks!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I enjoy having both with my WA22, and listen to them about 60% LCD-2, 40% HD800 but that is due to musical more than headphone preference; I really do rate them about the same. If I could only keep one I would consider selling them both and try the LCD-2 rev.2, that may be the best compromise between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Same driver tube for both? I know JC liked the treasures with the LCD-2, but not so much with the HD800.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Good to know, considering you didn't keep your rev1 pair. It will be interesting to see if the rev2's make a difference. I think WA suggested 200hrs break-in. Please let us know what you think.


 

 I burned in r1 for over 300 hours, but it just did not seem to open up for me. I've heard the r2 is much better so I'm interested in hearing how they do. 
   
  Now that I have the BDP-1 and DAC-2 more burned in than not, and my digital smearing issues resolved, I'm looking forward to hearing r2.  My system's sonic profile is different now, and at this point with the HD800's in the mix, my WA22 sounds a little bright.  I'm thinking that the r2 might bring in the right balance.  I've got my old X-Can v3 that will serve as my burn-in harness for r2.
   
  I'm really liking the DAC-2 and it pairs especially well with the BDP-1 which is super resolving.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I burned in r1 for over 300 hours, but it just did not seem to open up for me. I've heard the r2 is much better so I'm interested in hearing how they do.
> 
> Now that I have the BDP-1 and DAC-2 more burned in than not, and my digital smearing issues resolved, I'm looking forward to hearing r2.  My system's sonic profile is different now, and at this point with the HD800's in the mix, my WA22 sounds a little bright.  I'm thinking that the r2 might bring in the right balance.  I've got my old X-Can v3 that will serve as my burn-in harness for r2.
> 
> I'm really liking the DAC-2 and it pairs especially well with the BDP-1 which is super resolving.


 


 Doesn't surprise me. The W4S DAC-2 uses the same DAC (ESS ES9018) chip as the Oppo BDP-95. I'm sure our systems sound similar.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have an LCD-2 (r2) on order from ALO.  Should be here next week.  Also got their universal cable.


 

 Don't they have a balanced cable available now as well? I will be very interested in your impressions as I wonder how the rev.1, rev.2, and HD800 compare with each other overall.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have an LCD-2 (r2) on order from ALO.  Should be here next week.  Also got their universal cable.


 
   
  Did you get the LCD2.2 in the wood case?
   
  I will be interested in how the LCD2.2 fit your head. I've heard from someone that they found them uncomfortable after a while. Stating that they were "clunky, heavy, [and the] clamping force was a little strong." But it could be the physical attributes of their _noggin_. My head is a little on the big size. I find the HD650's clamping force a little tight and the K701 a little loose. The HD900's are a perfect fit. (Cinderella or Goldlilocks!)


----------



## Silent One

LCD-2 ~
   
  When listening to the r.1 spec the first two days, I found them to be a bit heavy and cumbersome, which detracted from my evaluation. By day three I became fully acclimated and was able to start paying attention to the music.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yes, it is a mix right now but most of the head time is lcd-2.  in fact that i don't use the d7000 much i decided to sell it.


 







_- Team Denon_


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a WA22 (although not modded) and it is dead silent.  Does the noise apper to sound like the rustling of leaves?


 


  it is very slight hum/hiss, more like when your turned on a microphone that kinda sound, really bugged me since it kinda blocked many micro detail and the clarity of the mids. I though if the tube made the noise it suppose to make the noise constantly, instead of ONLY appear during playing time, however besides i swapped in a new pair of driver tubes I didn't change anything ....


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> I just purchased my first pair of the D7000's last week. I love them. The sound with the Burson amp is positively bodacious.
> 
> But I still need to find the right amp for my T1's. I'm still considering the WA3...


 


   
  I bought the Wa2 for my T1's, supposedly one of the best matched amps for these phones. I am listening to them on my Burson HA-160D ATM and they sound great though. I hope Wa2 will make them much better though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have an LCD-2 (r2) on order from ALO.  Should be here next week.  Also got their universal cable.


 

 LCD-2 (r.2 spec)
   
  (Silent One picks up iPhone, taps Calendar>Month>Week-At-A-Glance. Realizing no one burns in gear faster than the 'notorious mikemalter', he begins to calculate the best day to _bang on mikemalter's door._)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> LCD-2 (r.2 spec)
> (Silent One picks up iPhone, taps Calendar>Month>Week-At-A-Glance. Realizing no one burns in gear faster than the 'notorious mikemalter', he begins to calculate the best day to _bang on mikemalter's door._)


 
  I see ALO have LCD-2 with Standard Headband and another with Leather Headband.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I use D7000 the other 10% on the Burson.  The LCD2 sound much better to me (on the high gain).


 

 Jacks - Hi/Low ~
   
  Just to make sure it's not me (or failure to keep my Audiologist appointment), I've been listening very carefully to a few cans in both jacks Hi & Low. And the High gain always results in being more dynamic but at the cost of lessened micro-details. D7000; LCD-2; HE-5LE. Do you (any of you) have the same experience with micro-detail between the two settings? Or better yet, what has been your findings?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Jacks - Hi/Low ~
> Just to make sure it's not me (or failure to keep my Audiologist appointment), I've been listening very carefully to a few cans in both jacks Hi & Low. And the High gain always results in being more dynamic but at the cost of lessened micro-details. D7000; LCD-2; HE-5LE. Do you (any of you) have the same experience with micro-detail between the two settings? Or better yet, what has been your findings?


 
  Same experience here for me as well. I thought the sound on LO to be slightly thinner than on HI. But after carefully listening it was really more detailed than when on HI. Slightly more expansive as well. My Audiologist appointment is at 9 a.m. on Aug. 8 just just 7 days before I leave for Europe on a Made-In-Holland Tube hunt! (Not really--just visiting friends as usual). Oh... I'm talking about my Beyer DT900 cans on the WA22.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> it is very slight hum/hiss, more like when your turned on a microphone that kinda sound, really bugged me since it kinda blocked many micro detail and the clarity of the mids. I though if the tube made the noise it suppose to make the noise constantly, instead of ONLY appear during playing time, however besides i swapped in a new pair of driver tubes I didn't change anything ....


 
  The hiss may not be from the drivers.  Can you swap out power and then rectifier?  If it still hisses, then contact Jack.  His stuff is dead silent and maybe something else is going on.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Don't they have a balanced cable available now as well? I will be very interested in your impressions as I wonder how the rev.1, rev.2, and HD800 compare with each other overall.


 
   
  The cable I got is the universal cable with multiple ends.  I got a mini-balanced cable that fits the Ray Samuels SR-71B and a thick RCA.  I did not get a large balanced cable as the output from the WA22 is not balanced.
   
  I'll post my impressions ((r1 vs. r2) and both v. HD800) after breakin which will be two weeks after I take delivery.  They are going to try to get it out on Monday as they hand make those cables.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Did you get the LCD2.2 in the wood case?
> 
> I will be interested in how the LCD2.2 fit your head. I've heard from someone that they found them uncomfortable after a while. Stating that they were "clunky, heavy, [and the] clamping force was a little strong." But it could be the physical attributes of their _noggin_. My head is a little on the big size. I find the HD650's clamping force a little tight and the K701 a little loose. The HD900's are a perfect fit. (Cinderella or Goldlilocks!)


 
  I wanted to get them with the plastic travel case, but they only had the wood case unfortunately.

 The last time around for me the fit was not an issue at all.  They look clunky, but once on, they never bothered me.  The fit and weight were never an issue at all. What did get me was the smell, which I actually liked.  The leather has that new car smell to it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> it is very slight hum/hiss, more like when your turned on a microphone that kinda sound, really bugged me since it kinda blocked many micro detail and the clarity of the mids. I though if the tube made the noise it suppose to make the noise constantly, instead of ONLY appear during playing time, however besides i swapped in a new pair of driver tubes I didn't change anything ....


 

 Then you have eliminated the driver tubes as a possibility. Have you had a chance to change out the power or rectifier tubes yet?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Same experience here for me as well. I thought the sound on LO to be slightly thinner than on HI. But after carefully listening it was really more detailed than when on HI. Slightly more expansive as well. My Audiologist appointment is at 9 a.m. on Aug. 8 just just 7 days before I leave for Europe on a Made-In-Holland Tube hunt! (Not really--just visiting friends as usual). Oh... I'm talking about my Beyer DT900 cans on the WA22.


 

 Yes, I forgot about Lo sounding more expansive, thanks Clayton. Sometimes when listening to poorly recorded or thin sounding tracks, I'm tempted to switch jacks and will if it's an entire CD. Only to play it again a month or two later on Lo and discover all the of resolution detail I missed! So now I just stay in the Lo-jack...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The cable I got is the universal cable with multiple ends.  I got a mini-balanced cable that fits the Ray Samuels SR-71B and a thick RCA.  I did not get a large balanced cable as the output from the WA22 is not balanced.
> 
> I'll post my impressions ((r1 vs. r2) and both v. HD800) after breakin which will be two weeks after I take delivery.  They are going to try to get it out on Monday as they hand make those cables.


 

 I am under the impression that if you use a balanced source then the WA22 XLR outputs are balanced as well. Wasn't that covered pretty thoroughly in that WA22-specific thread a while back?
  Looking forward to your impressions


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> LCD-2 (r.2 spec)
> 
> (Silent One picks up iPhone, taps Calendar>Month>Week-At-A-Glance. Realizing no one burns in gear faster than the 'notorious mikemalter', he begins to calculate the best day to _bang on mikemalter's door._)


 

 The only thing solid state gear is good for is 24/7 component burn-in for my tubed system ( KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ).  Bang on my door anytime, you are always welcome.


  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I see ALO have LCD-2 with Standard Headband and another with Leather Headband.


 
  I better go back and see what I actually bought.  I hope I got leather.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Then you have eliminated the driver tubes as a possibility. Have you had a chance to change out the power or rectifier tubes yet?


 
  My WA22 hums when using my HD650 headphones. Louder on HI rather than LO. They do not hum when using the Beyer DT900 600 ohms on HI or LO. Maybe I should stick to HI impedance HPs.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am under the impression that if you use a balanced source then the WA22 output is balanced as well. Wasn't that covered pretty thoroughly in that WA22-specific thread a while back?
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions


 

 It was.  I can be wrong, as I remember the outcome of the thread was that the output of the WA22 is hardwired single ended.  Having said that, the terminator and cable architecture also has a sonic impact, and some people say the WA22 sounds better with balanced connections.  For me, balanced and single ended sound the same.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, I forgot about Lo sounding more expansive, thanks Clayton. Sometimes when listening to poorly recorded or thin sounding tracks, I'm tempted to switch jacks and will if it's an entire CD. Only to play it again a month or two later on Lo and discover all the of resolution detail I missed! So now I just stay in the Lo-jack...


 

 I remember reading something by (I can't remember his name but he makes the connectors that go on top of the tubes) said that low should sound better and actually place less stress on either the drivers or the power tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I remember reading something by (I can't remember his name but he makes the connectors that go on top of the tubes) said that low should sound better and actually place less stress on either the drivers or the power tubes.


 

 I believe you're referring to Glenn; yes that is correct. And although my WA22 remains out on the distant horizon, its design is both balanced and standard headphone outputs, not just wired single-ended. Of course, due to being myopic I've been wrong before. _Each year... "The RAIDERS are goin' to the Super Bowl!"_
   

 Though, for both terminations to sound the same seems unusual. Any other '22' owners with balanced cans & source have different/similar conclusions?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I believe you're referring to Glenn; yes that is correct. And although my WA22 remains out on the distant horizon, its design is both balanced and standard headphone outputs, not just wired single-ended. Of course, due to being myopic I've been wrong before. _Each year... "The RAIDERS are goin' to the Super Bowl!"_


 

 SilentOne, betcha a cup of tea the WA22 is hardwired single ended.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> It was.  I can be wrong, as I remember the outcome of the thread was that the output of the WA22 is hardwired single ended.  Having said that, the terminator and cable architecture also has a sonic impact, and some people say the WA22 sounds better with balanced connections.  For me, balanced and single ended sound the same.


 

 I was just reviewing that thread, it's a pretty good discussion that doesn't seem to have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction (fancy that!) but here is how Jack from Woo described it in that thread:
   
"The question here is that this amp is not fully balanced because the "amp with a single ended output stage directly connected to the XLR connectors.” It is not true. In an Output Transformer coupled design, the primary and secondary coils are isolated. Output stage and input stage are not connected and thus no cross-talk whatsoever can happen.
   
On the ¼” output, both channels have independent paths, see the black and red wires.  If this wiring scheme applies to a Output Transformer Less design, the circuit will become single-ended. See the second diagram in #17, the v- would have to be a common wire to other channel.  One must be careful not to take reference from the wrong context to avoid all the misunderstanding.
 
Also, no phase splitter is needed because the source is XLR (balanced). As for the RCA input, only ½ of the input is used and the efficiency is roughly dropped 50%. In other words, the RCA input will not take advantage of this design. You must use a balanced source to get the best out of the WA22.
 
Hope that clarifies.
 
-Jack"
   
  And right below it, 2359glenn like a lot of us isn't sure if being "truly balanced" or not makes an actual difference in our listening experience, but does see a difference with the XLR output:
   
  "XLR connectors are a better connector than a 1/4" phone plug so making cables with XLR connectors is a improvement."
   
   
  Here is the quote from the very first line of the WA22's description:
   
 "WA22 is a fully balanced, Class-A, all triode-drive headphone amplifier"   
  And from the features section:
   

 Two 3-pin _balanced_ headphone output (left and right ch)
 One 4-pin _balanced_ headphone output
 One _single-ended_ headphone output
   
   
  I know that for myself I definitely hear a difference when I switch to balanced headphone cables; from what I can gather the consensus seems to be that is due to difference in the amplifier's output more than how the headphone itself is responding to the difference in cabling. But I think that it could be a combination of both factors.
   
   
*edit* (to include Skylab's take on the matter):
   
  "All you have to do is look at the schematic Jack posted in post 38 to very clearly see this. The amp is balanced, and provides a balanced output on the XLR jacks."
   
  It's hard to state an opinion any more clearly than that.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SilentOne, betcha a cup of tea the WA22 is hardwired single ended.


 

 Shared outputs?
  You may very well be correct. No need for me to lose the very tea you just gave me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  However, if that's the case then that suggests to me that because it's a fully-balanced design, if fed a balanced source then the amp's job is done. And the two terminations give both users the ability to tap in. This is definitely true of the W4S DACs, same thing. Even if you output from its fully-balanced designed architecture in SE, you'll benefit but at a lower output.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I was just reviewing that thread, it's a pretty good discussion that doesn't seem to have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction (fancy that!) but here is how Jack from Woo described it in that thread:
> 
> "The question here is that this amp is not fully balanced because the "amp with a single ended output stage directly connected to the XLR connectors.” It is not true. In an Output Transformer coupled design, the primary and secondary coils are isolated. Output stage and input stage are not connected and thus no cross-talk whatsoever can happen.
> 
> ...


 

 Grokit - Excellent research.  Thanks for chasing down those threads. 
   
  So we have a wiring diagram that shows outputs are wired up single ended while the amplifier acts balanced because it is transformer coupled. 
   
  I'm going to have to swap cables again to try to hear a difference.
   
  Do I own SilentOne a cup of tea?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I was just reviewing that thread, it's a pretty good discussion that doesn't seem to have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction (fancy that!) but here is how Jack from Woo described it in that thread:
> 
> "The question here is that this amp is not fully balanced because the "amp with a single ended output stage directly connected to the XLR connectors.” It is not true. In an Output Transformer coupled design, the primary and secondary coils are isolated. Output stage and input stage are not connected and thus no cross-talk whatsoever can happen.
> 
> ...


 


  Yes, I remember that large ongoing discussion with Jack eventually weighing-in...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So we have a wiring diagram that shows outputs are wired up single ended while the amplifier acts balanced because it is transformer coupled.
> 
> I'm going to have to swap cables again to try to hear a difference.
> 
> Do I own SilentOne a cup of tea?


 

 Yes! But it seems you've already advanced it to me....


----------



## jerico

silent one said:


> LCD-2 ~
> 
> When listening to the r.1 spec the first two days, I found them to be a bit heavy and cumbersome, which detracted from my evaluation. By day three I became fully acclimated and was able to start paying attention to the music.




I think this is a good point - I had to acclimate to them too. Actually, I really didn't like my r.1s at first - they sound totally different than, say, my T1s (and are in a different galaxy versus my Grados). Once I got used to them, I really started to like them. After I found tubes I like, I hardly ever plug my T1s in. My Grados have been in the closet for about a year now.


----------



## Arcamera

Hmm-- dynamic vs more spacious and detailed via the high and low gain jacks on the Burson, respectively-- interesting distinction. I haven't heard that yet. Only that some cans seem to work better all-around with one of the two gain options. For instance, I much prefer the Denon's through the left high-gain jack-- the sounds becomes more expansive, open, dynamic and detailed at the same time. Conversely, so far other cans seem to sound better on the low gain (Beyers, and Senns, e.g.). But I'll listen more closely now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I think this is a good point - I had to acclimate to them too. Actually, I really didn't like my r.1s at first - they sound totally different than, say, my T1s (and are in a different galaxy versus my Grados). Once I got used to them, I really started to like them. After I found tubes I like, I hardly ever plug my T1s in. My Grados have been in the closet for about a year now.


 

 I liken the sound of the LCD-2's to that of a distant lover - keeping things interesting yet, just out of reach. So, the desire remains strong for me to keep listening, looking and leaning with anticipation. But at the end each passing track I can only realize how close I came to being fulfilled but didn't.
   
  I have an open mind but a closed wallet - hoping that the r.2 spec changes my reaction.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> Hmm-- dynamic vs more spacious and detailed via the high and low gain jacks on the Burson, respectively-- interesting distinction. I haven't heard that yet. Only that some cans seem to work better all-around with one of the two gain options. For instance, I much prefer the Denon's through the left high-gain jack-- the sounds becomes more expansive, open, dynamic and detailed at the same time. Conversely, so far other cans seem to sound better on the low gain (Beyers, and Senns, e.g.). But I'll listen more closely now.


 


  Have you got a Woo to level the listening room experiment?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I think this is a good point - I had to acclimate to them too. Actually, I really didn't like my r.1s at first - they sound totally different than, say, my T1s (and are in a different galaxy versus my Grados). Once I got used to them, I really started to like them. After I found tubes I like, I hardly ever plug my T1s in. My Grados have been in the closet for about a year now.


 


  In my first go-round with the HD800 and LCD-2, I was finding that acclimation to be tiring and repetitive both ways, to the point where I was reluctant to listen to more than one of them in a single day. But with the tube combo I am using now (and a slightly different-sounding HD800), even though they still sound quite different I can A/B them freely.
   
   
  On the balanced WA22 thing, I will edit my post to add Skylab's take on the diagrams:
   
  "All you have to do is look at the schematic Jack posted in post 38 to very clearly see this. The amp is balanced, and provides a balanced output on the XLR jacks."
   
  It's hard to state an opinion any more clearly than that.


----------



## Silent One

Listening room ~
   
  My recent room remodel has become a pain-in-the-neck... literally! I took the small desk for the computer so the gear could have the larger table. But in the last few days my neck has become increasingly sore. This is because the smaller desk is lower in height and has cramped leg quarters. 
   
  My computer mouse might as well had been a Rat! Lack of leg space caused me to sit further away and continuously reach for the 'little one.' And we all know how Woo Audio owners like to look at all the candy online well into the night. Minutes ago, I just completed a reverse swap of furniture. All of my gear is no longer at my finger tips but I now have improved 'Ergo.'


----------



## MacedonianHero

grokit said:


> I am in general agreement here, but from my limited adventures in tube-rolling I think that it's quite hard to quantify how a given tube sounds in isolation; for me it's about how they sound in combination with each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree it's about a balanced amongst all the tubes, but I generally find that the power tubes affect the sound greater than the driver tubes which in turn, affect SQ more than the rectifier. I'm still tweaking though....but I think I'm getting close.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The hiss may not be from the drivers.  Can you swap out power and then rectifier?  If it still hisses, then contact Jack.  His stuff is dead silent and maybe something else is going on.


 


  Ah... I hope it's nothing wrong with my woo amp .... so that's normal that if the tubes cause noise it might not appear when music paused?


----------



## MacedonianHero

jerico said:


> I think this is a good point - I had to acclimate to them too. Actually, I really didn't like my r.1s at first - they sound totally different than, say, my T1s (and are in a different galaxy versus my Grados). Once I got used to them, I really started to like them. After I found tubes I like, I hardly ever plug my T1s in. My Grados have been in the closet for about a year now.




My experiences were very similar to yours with the LCD-2s. I was initially coming from the T1s as well....but now the LCD-2s are my favourites....Oh and my Grado RS-1i's are long gone. 



grokit said:


> In my first go-round with the HD800 and LCD-2, I was finding that acclimation to be tiring and repetitive both ways, to the point where I was reluctant to listen to more than one of them in a single day. But with the tube combo I am using now (and a slightly different-sounding HD800), even though they still sound quite different I can A/B them freely.
> 
> 
> On the balanced WA22 thing, I will edit my post to add Skylab's take on the diagrams:
> ...




I recently had my LCD-2 Silver Dragon V3 cable balanced by Drew at Moon Audio. I also picked up a 4-pin balanced to SE adapter and to my ears the LCD-2s open up with respect to imaging, bass control and treble extension running them balanced. Not huge, but enough to certainly notice.

EDIT: I also found similar differences with my HD800s balanced vs. single-ended. But I don't have a 2 3pin XLR to S.E. adapter...I was A-Bing with my balanced Cardas cable and S.E. DHC cable. So not a scientific A-B comparison.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Listening room ~
> 
> My recent room remodel has become a pain-in-the-neck... literally! I took the small desk for the computer so the gear could have the larger table. But in the last few days my neck has become increasingly sore. This is because the smaller desk is lower in height and has cramped leg quarters.
> 
> My computer mouse might as well had been a Rat! Lack of leg space caused me to sit further away and continuously reach for the 'little one.' And we all know how Woo Audio owners like to look at all the candy online well into the night. Minutes ago, I just completed a reverse swap of furniture. All of my gear is no longer at my finger tips but I now have improved 'Ergo.'


 

 Weren't you auditioning another DAC. How did you like it?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Weren't you auditioning another DAC. How did you like it?


 

 I was auditioning the Violetric V800 DAC which came to a halt 10 days ago. There were a couple of reasons for this. The first of which was my own W4S DAC was still young, burning-in and showing improvements. Secondly, the V800 was brand new out-of-the-box and would have needed far more hours than I wanted to place on it. If I were leaning to buy it, or if it had been a loner with hours well on it, I would have proceeded further.
   
  It has potential but any impressions at 12 hours in would not be fair. However, based on the W4S's impressions out-of-the-box, though they exhibit different traits, is that my box is better in many respects. In trying to stay the gentleman, I decided it would be proper not to play it anymore than necessary... and closed my Evernote log on the DAC for now.
   
  Also, Monday night my session ended with 308 hours on my DAC-1. This morning's session concluded with 318 total hours and a huge shift in new details and layering - I am grinning. Changes may come fewer and smaller post '300' but I expect change nonetheless through 500 hours without a doubt.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I have the same experience with a pair of LCD-2 I tried. I personally did not care much for them with the stock single ended cable. To my taste they sounded dark. I tried them with my WA5-LE and with my RP010B. IMO the sounded better with the Rudi. The I got a balanced Zeus cable  and they sounded much better out of the RP010B balanced output. I personally think it is because they are receiving double the power than single ended. 
   
  I think that  even they are not as difficult to drive than the HE-6 they really like power too. The reason I am saying this is because after I tried them balanced I connected them to a Pass Labs Aleph 3 speaker amplifier using a XLR-Spages pigtail and they sounded fantastic. They really open up, got more dynamic and not dark at all.
  A good aftermarket cable and well powered they LCD-2 are really nice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have the same experience with a pair of LCD-2 I tried. I personally did not care much for them with the stock single ended cable. To my taste they sounded dark. I tried them with my WA5-LE and with my RP010B. IMO the sounded better with the Rudi. The I got a balanced Zeus cable  and they sounded much better out of the RP010B balanced output. I personally think it is because they are receiving double the power than single ended.
> 
> I think that  even they are not as difficult to drive than the HE-6 they really like power too. The reason I am saying this is because after I tried them balanced I connected them to a Pass Labs Aleph 3 speaker amplifier using a XLR-Spages pigtail and they sounded fantastic. They really open up, got more dynamic and not dark at all.
> A good aftermarket cable and well powered they LCD-2 are really nice.


 


  I am pleased with my balanced Zeus cable. The adventure is young yet, telling. Gotta find new music!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Ah... I hope it's nothing wrong with my woo amp .... so that's normal that if the tubes cause noise it might not appear when music paused?


 

 If the amp is silent when no music is playing but you hear static during playback I would check out your source as it might be contributing the noise.  It's unlikely any of the tubes are suspect, otherwise you would hear what seems like a rustling sound even with no music playing.  Likewise a humming sound would be the most common noise problem from the amp itself, and this too would be present with no music playing.  So I think your amp is fine.  Not to sound rude, but a lot of music has some static and hiss in the background as a normal part of the recording, and if you upgraded from something basic before maybe you are just hearing it for the first time?  Just throwing it out there in case it might be applicable.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I agree it's about a balanced amongst all the tubes, but I generally find that the power tubes affect the sound greater than the driver tubes which in turn, affect SQ more than the rectifier. I'm still tweaking though....but I think I'm getting close.


 

 I can't comment on power tubes myself (..... someday), but in my experience rectifier and driver tubes don't really seem to affect the sound more than one another, but rather affect the sound in perceptibly different ways to my ears. Plus the rectifier directly impacts the sonics of the driver tubes through changes in B+ voltage so in a way it having a double effect on the sound.  I definitely agree with everybody else's sentiments, though, in that total synergy between all the tubes is all that matters in the end.  Some combinations just seem "right" so to speak.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Just wanted to mention I'm in the process of re-auditioning all four pairs of Sylvania tubes that I will be trying to do a write-up on.  It has been a while since I've heard the W's and the Bad Boys now so I figured I should get fresh impressions.  I'll see if I can find my camera amongst the boxes of junk and snap a picture of all four of them too before I post it all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just wanted to mention I'm in the process of re-auditioning all four pairs of Sylvania tubes that I will be trying to do a write-up on.  It has been a while since I've heard the W's and the Bad Boys now so I figured I should get fresh impressions.  I'll see if I can find my camera amongst the boxes of junk and snap a picture of all four of them too before I post it all.


 
   
  Thanks, Xcalibur255 ~
   
  Please proceed. Your audience has now been seated (and will remain so).


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If the amp is silent when no music is playing but you hear static during playback I would check out your source as it might be contributing the noise.  It's unlikely any of the tubes are suspect, otherwise you would hear what seems like a rustling sound even with no music playing.  Likewise a humming sound would be the most common noise problem from the amp itself, and this too would be present with no music playing.  So I think your amp is fine.  Not to sound rude, but a lot of music has some static and hiss in the background as a normal part of the recording, and if you upgraded from something basic before maybe you are just hearing it for the first time?  Just throwing it out there in case it might be applicable.


 
  I've had my amp for a while and this didn't really happen before, It's running on balanced mode , i don't think there would be any noise between source and amp. Thanks for the help, i just emailed jack see what dose he think...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I agree it's about a balanced amongst all the tubes, but I generally find that the power tubes affect the sound greater than the driver tubes which in turn, affect SQ more than the rectifier. I'm still tweaking though....but I think I'm getting close.


 

 Yes I feel that I am very close as well. I really like my current tube combo as I have posted a few time already, now it looks like I have a taker on my proposed EML rectifier swap (5U4G for 274B), so it will be interesting to compare that EML to my beloved Sophia Princess 274B.
   
  You would think I would be done at that point but I have been reading about the TS 7236 as being a great alternative to my Sylvania 7236 power tubes, so I will probably try to see if I can trade both of my pairs of NOS TS 5998 (Chatham) tubes for a pair of those next. That's a hint if there are any prospective takers reading BTW, PM me :•)
   
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> EDIT: I also found similar differences with my HD800s balanced vs. single-ended. But I don't have a 2 3pin XLR to S.E. adapter...I was A-Bing with my balanced Cardas cable and S.E. DHC cable. So not a scientific A-B comparison.


 

 I have to qualify that my comparison was not exactly apples to apples either, both my HD800 and LCD-2 SE cables are stock and my balanced cables are Double Helix Molecules.
   
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just wanted to mention I'm in the process of re-auditioning all four pairs of Sylvania tubes that I will be trying to do a write-up on.  It has been a while since I've heard the W's and the Bad Boys now so I figured I should get fresh impressions.  I'll see if I can find my camera amongst the boxes of junk and snap a picture of all four of them too before I post it all.


 
  Looking forward to it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> I've had my amp for a while and this didn't really happen before, It's running on balanced mode , i don't think there would be any noise between source and amp. Thanks for the help, i just emailed jack see what dose he think...


 

 If possible try your source with another amp or your amp with another source, that should help nail it down.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Ah... I hope it's nothing wrong with my woo amp .... so that's normal that if the tubes cause noise it might not appear when music paused?


 

 From what you just stated, the amp is fine, your source may be the *source* of the noise. If you pause the music and turn up the volume, do you still here noise?
  IMO, If the noise is not there, it's not the amp or the tubes.


----------



## Icenine2

I now have 150 hours on my Cavalli Liquid Fire amp and will review it.  I'll just say so far it is beyond incredible and the best amp I've ever heard.  More to come!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I now have 150 hours on my Cavalli Liquid Fire amp and will review it.  I'll just say so far it is beyond incredible and the best amp I've ever heard.  More to come!


 
  Great. This is with your Tesla T-1, yes? What music are you primarily listening to on your LF?


----------



## Icenine2

Yes Clay, Tesla T-1's.  Music I'm listening to:  The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Steely Dan, King Crimson, Keith Jarrett, Beethoven, Jeff Beck, Rod Stewart (old), Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, Allman Brothers Band, Deep Purple, Bob Dylan...............


----------



## Clayton SF

Speak of your Cavalli Liquid Fire--Mahavishnu Orch. is liquid fire in and of itself.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Yes Clay, Tesla T-1's.  Music I'm listening to:  The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Steely Dan, King Crimson, Keith Jarrett, Beethoven, Jeff Beck, Rod Stewart (old), Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, Allman Brothers Band, Deep Purple, Bob Dylan...............


 

  
  Before your list got too long, I'm almost positive you were going to list "Weather Report."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Can't wait to hear your review. I'm a cyclist, I know what drives you!


----------



## emremusic

How warm does your Woo6se get??
   
  I've noticed that my power tube chasis is getting warmer than usual lately... It doesn't get burning hot, but definately warmer - especially the metal near the power tubes. This happens after only about an hour of use. It could be my imagination but I believe it gets warmer with the stock power tubes it came with rather than the upgrades.
   
  Did you notice your Woo getting warmer quicker as it ages?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> How warm does your Woo6se get??
> 
> I've noticed that my power tube chasis is getting warmer than usual lately... It doesn't get burning hot, but definately warmer - especially the metal near the power tubes. This happens after only about an hour of use. It could be my imagination but I believe it gets warmer with the stock power tubes it came with rather than the upgrades.
> 
> Did you notice your Woo getting warmer quicker as it ages?


 

 I took delivery of my WA6SE last summer; brand new with stock 6EW7 tubes it was hot out of the box. Being summer did not help either. So, age of the amp played no part in my experience. Are you currently in Turkey (living like a rock star)? Isn't it hot over there? From a distance I'd say your amp's operating temperature is normal.
   
  October '11, I converted to 6SN7 tubes and heat is no longer an issue. _The amp runs so cool I'm suspicious... "Is it on?!"  And it's summer, no less!  _




   
  Post Script.:  OS X Leopard, Snow Leopard or Lion? Are you booting into 32-bit or 64-bit kernel & extensions?? Duet or Duet2??? And when you comin' back to see us Stateside?!


----------



## Icenine2

........Pink Floyd, Robert Johnson, Yes, ELP, Zappa, Genesis (w/Petey Gabriel), Elvis, Zep, Cream, Traffic, Beach Boys.......................
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Yes Clay, Tesla T-1's.  Music I'm listening to:  The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Steely Dan, King Crimson, Keith Jarrett, Beethoven, Jeff Beck, Rod Stewart (old), Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, Allman Brothers Band, Deep Purple, Bob Dylan...............


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> ........Pink Floyd, Robert Johnson, Yes, ELP, Zappa, Genesis (w/Petey Gabriel), Elvis, Zep, Cream, Traffic, Beach Boys.......................


 

 Dinner ~
   
  I'm guessing you ordered Take-out to minimize time away from the Cavalli, yes?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Dinner ~
> 
> I'm guessing you ordered Take-out to minimize time away from the Cavalli, yes?


 

 I have my entire library on random and it surprises me all day long.  If I get bored, It's Radio Paradise.
   
  Got 125 hours on my w4s preamp and 75 hours on my w4s monoblocks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've pretty much got it typed out, I'll give my thoughts more time to percolate and make sure I've expressed myself well.  I hope you guys know what you've unleashed by asking me to write this, knowing how longwinded I am.  
   
  I'm going to have to d a separate post for each tube because I ended up writing way more than I intended.  Look forward to it (or run away screaming, I won't judge).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have my entire library on random and it surprises me all day long.  If I get bored, It's Radio Paradise.
> 
> Got 125 hours on my w4s preamp and 75 hours on my w4s monoblocks.


 

 You're red hot & rollin'... amazing! Hope your audio finds and excitement doesn't cause you to miss the Airport Shuttle! Did you complete your library rips? Perhaps, you'll export for previews one day? Some of us on CA are now posting 'Album of the Evening' which encourages listening to a complete album of a group/artist(s). This also helps getting exposed to new music.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've pretty much got it typed out, I'll give my thoughts more time to percolate and make sure I've expressed myself well.  I hope you guys know what you've unleashed by asking me to write this, knowing how longwinded I am.
> 
> I'm going to have to d a separate post for each tube because I ended up writing way more than I intended.  Look forward to it (or run away screaming, I won't judge).


 


  Camped out ~
   
  For those of us who enjoy both audio and documenting our experiences within it, we love and appreciate your effort! Everyone is different but I think if more members new to audio began to keep a log/journal, it could heighten their experiences even more. My only concern now is 'Matching' - which pint of Haagen-Dazs to compliment my fellow member's write-up? 
   
  You see, this is very important stuff you've taken on!


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's the thoughtfulness of the people here that make me want to put in the effort.  I've gone out of my way to do write-ups and help people on other forums only to find no appreciation for it, which makes you not want to put the time in again.  I must say, though, that I've enjoyed writing it.  I hope it doesn't come across as rambling, because my thoughts tend to run on and on when I'm in the zone.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey Guys--I had to reinstall Mac OS X Lion 4 times today. Four times. 4x. Stupid. Anyway I was in the WooRoom and the living room. Back and forth. Back and forth. So I listened to the WA4 in the WooRoom. The B22 in the living room and the DNA Sonett. I listened to Dutch Electric (from the SF Library), Noah and the Whale, Thomas Dybdahl, Fleetwood Mac _Tusk_ (vinyl), LuLu (v), Soundgarden, Stravinsky, Astrud (thank you SilentOne), Jefferson Airplane, David Crosby, Mumford & Sons, George Benson, Grizzly Bear, and Fleet Foxes.
   
  The Mac is still doing something with Time Machine and I am wishing I could eek out another few hours of listening time before I dream about the Cavalli Liquid Fire. I think I'll watch a little Sherlock Holmes on the TV before bed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Guys--I had to reinstall Mac OS X Lion 4 times today. Four times. 4x. Stupid. Anyway I was in the WooRoom and the living room. Back and forth. Back and forth. So I listened to the WA4 in the WooRoom. The B22 in the living room and the DNA Sonett. I listened to Dutch Electric (from the SF Library), Noah and the Whale, Thomas Dybdahl, Fleetwood Mac _Tusk_ (vinyl), LuLu (v), Soundgarden, Stravinsky, Astrud (thank you SilentOne), Jefferson Airplane, David Crosby, Mumford & Sons, George Benson, Grizzly Bear, and Fleet Foxes.
> 
> The Mac is still doing something with Time Machine and I am wishing I could eek out another few hours of listening time before I dream about the Cavalli Liquid Fire. I think I'll watch a little Sherlock Holmes on the TV before bed.


 

 I came this || close to installing Lion. Just as I was about to pay for it, I checked my mobile for messages and then the Computer Audiophile thread... "WAIT!"someone posted! My fellow member just discovered Apple dropped support for fixed-integer playback! Will stay with SL for awhile.
   
  Hope you get it sorted out, Clayton. If Astrud doesn't calm frazzled nerves I'll call Apple Care myself!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's the thoughtfulness of the people here that make me want to put in the effort.  I've gone out of my way to do write-ups and help people on other forums only to find no appreciation for it, which makes you not want to put the time in again.  I must say, though, that I've enjoyed writing it.  I hope it doesn't come across as rambling, because my thoughts tend to run on and on when I'm in the zone.


 


  It is my hope that anyone reading this reply doesn't think I'm trying to speak on other member's behalf. However, it is my opinion after reading this thread for a couple of years, and then officially signing-up once I purchased my Woo last year, that this thread is a place where members value each others time and contributions. 
   
  Additionally, on 26 July, I posted that I also felt _Woo Audio Owner Unite is a diverse thread of amicable quality__._..


----------



## Clayton SF

^ And to Boot! (no pun intended) Lion makes my Mac run so hot that the internal fan is on all the time and the back of the Mac feels like the mosaic sidewalks of Copacabana. So I decided to switch back to SL because of the heat/fan issue but when I reinstalled SL and used Time Machine to restore, Lion had already fiddled with and updated my files so they could no longer work in SL so it was back to Lion, then I had a thought about fixing some files in SL, so I reinstalled SL again and then Lion on top of that to no avail, hence install #4. I am stuck with Lion. 
   
  SHERLOCK TO THE RESCUE and it's back to PBS until bed time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ And to Boot! (no pun intended) Lion makes my Mac run so hot that the internal fan is on all the time and the back of the Mac feels like the mosaic sidewalks of Copacabana. So I decided to switch back to SL because of the heat/fan issue but when I reinstalled SL and used Time Machine to restore, Lion had already fiddled with and updated my files so they could no longer work in SL so it was back to Lion, then I had a thought about fixing some files in SL, so I reinstalled SL again and then Lion on top of that to no avail, hence install #4. I am stuck with Lion.
> 
> SHERLOCK TO THE RESCUE and it's back to PBS until bed time.


 

 By all means, great pun!  :~)  One thing I may have overlooked and that's Time Machine. Are you suggesting you backed up the latest SL output before installing Lion? And Lion messed with Time Machine's entries in a rogue manner anyway?!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Guys--I had to reinstall Mac OS X Lion 4 times today. Four times. 4x. Stupid. Anyway I was in the WooRoom and the living room. Back and forth. Back and forth. So I listened to the WA4 in the WooRoom. The B22 in the living room and the DNA Sonett. I listened to Dutch Electric (from the SF Library), Noah and the Whale, Thomas Dybdahl, Fleetwood Mac _Tusk_ (vinyl), LuLu (v), Soundgarden, Stravinsky, Astrud (thank you SilentOne), Jefferson Airplane, David Crosby, Mumford & Sons, George Benson, Grizzly Bear, and Fleet Foxes.
> 
> The Mac is still doing something with Time Machine and I am wishing I could eek out another few hours of listening time before I dream about the Cavalli Liquid Fire. I think I'll watch a little Sherlock Holmes on the TV before bed.


 

 I feel your pain on the computer front.  At the moment I finally have my SSD stable.  A new round of firmware is making the rounds but I'm scared to change anything for fear of waking slumbering BSOD beast again.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have my entire library on random and it surprises me all day long.  If I get bored, It's Radio Paradise.
> 
> Got 125 hours on my w4s preamp and 75 hours on my w4s monoblocks.


 

 I'd love to hear that combination along with the DAC-2.  All W4S.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'd love to hear that combination along with the DAC-2.  All W4S.


 
   
  August ~
   
_Love to hear it? I'm goin' to hear it... August!_


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ And to Boot! (no pun intended) Lion makes my Mac run so hot that the internal fan is on all the time and the back of the Mac feels like the mosaic sidewalks of Copacabana. So I decided to switch back to SL because of the heat/fan issue but when I reinstalled SL and used Time Machine to restore, Lion had already fiddled with and updated my files so they could no longer work in SL so it was back to Lion, then I had a thought about fixing some files in SL, so I reinstalled SL again and then Lion on top of that to no avail, hence install #4. I am stuck with Lion.
> 
> SHERLOCK TO THE RESCUE and it's back to PBS until bed time.


 
  What Mac are you using?    I'm not going to upgrade my iMac until W4S tells me my DAC-2 driver will work on it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What Mac are you using?    I'm not going to upgrade my iMac until W4S tells me my DAC-2 driver will work on it.


 
   
  iMac 24-inch mid-2007 with 2GB of memory and 500GB HD. It is slow with Lion.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> By all means, great pun!  :~)  One thing I may have overlooked and that's Time Machine. Are you suggesting you backed up the latest SL output before installing Lion? And Lion messed with Time Machine's entries in a rogue manner anyway?!


 

 No, nothing like that. You see. I didn't expect any trouble from the King of the Jungle so when I upgraded to Lion is was playing with it for about 3 hours during which time TM continued to back up and the BACKUP is what is no longer compatible in SL so when I downgraded to SL I couldn't get any information off of TM because it was not compatible with SL any longer after Lion ripped into it. --Oh, sorry. I must move on.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> iMac 24-inch mid-2007 with 2GB of memory and 500GB HD. It is slow with Lion.
> 
> 
> No, nothing like that. You see. I didn't expect any trouble from the King of the Jungle so when I upgraded to Lion is was playing with it for about 3 hours during which time TM continued to back up and the BACKUP is what is no longer compatible in SL so when I downgraded to SL I couldn't get any information off of TM because it was not compatible with SL any longer after Lion ripped into it. --Oh, sorry. I must move on.


 

 Movin' on..._ The Law of The Jungle._


----------



## Clayton SF

Movin' on ...
_*Grrrrrrrrrrrrr*_

   
  I mean--_*ROAR*_!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> iMac 24-inch mid-2007 with 2GB of memory and 500GB HD. It is slow with Lion.


 
  Hmmm I have a 2009 iMac 3.06 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB.   This is the first time I  have not instantly updated to a new system.  For some reason my intuition told me to wait... I'll have to check the Apple boards for stories...


----------



## grokit

Quote:


			
				mikemalter said:
			
		

> I have my entire library on random and it surprises me all day long.  If I get bored, It's Radio Paradise.
> 
> Got 125 hours on my w4s preamp and 75 hours on my w4s monoblocks.


 
 I've been stuck on random play for a few days myself, and loving it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> It's the thoughtfulness of the people here that make me want to put in the effort.  I've gone out of my way to do write-ups and help people on other forums only to find no appreciation for it, which makes you not want to put the time in again.  I must say, though, that I've enjoyed writing it.  I hope it doesn't come across as rambling, because my thoughts tend to run on and on when I'm in the zone.


 

 Your effort will certainly be appreciated here, at the best thread on Head-fi. Although I have to say that originally I thought you were just going to post a pictorial comparison, which would have certainly been helpful all on its own. But now it looks like the proverbial icing will dwarf the cake itself!
   

  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ And to Boot! (no pun intended) Lion makes my Mac run so hot that the internal fan is on all the time and the back of the Mac feels like the mosaic sidewalks of Copacabana. So I decided to switch back to SL because of the heat/fan issue but when I reinstalled SL and used Time Machine to restore, Lion had already fiddled with and updated my files so they could no longer work in SL so it was back to Lion, then I had a thought about fixing some files in SL, so I reinstalled SL again and then Lion on top of that to no avail, hence install #4. I am stuck with Lion.
> 
> SHERLOCK TO THE RESCUE and it's back to PBS until bed time.


 

 Couldn't you just wipe (reformat with 1's and 0's) the boot drive entirely, and then restore it from a point on time machine before it had been introduced to Lion? It would seem that any file updates would not be included if you restored SL onto a totally blank drive instead of doing it as a time machine system update.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Couldn't you just wipe (reformat with 1's and 0's) the boot drive entirely, and then restore it from a point on time machine before it had been introduced to Lion? It would seem that any file updates would not be included if you restored SL onto a totally blank drive instead of doing it as a time machine system update.


 
   
  Time Machine needs to run in an operating system so while I was using OS X Lion, TM started to do its backups (as it should have). Then when I decided to go back to SL, I reinstalled Leopard (because SL can't install on its own. It has to install over Leopard) then I installed SL over Leopard. Then when I ran SL and tried to restore TM, SL said that TM was incompatible with SL. So I gather LionTM can't be read by SL because had been backed up by Lion.
   
  OH BOY.
  OH MY.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Time Machine needs to run in an operating system so while I was using OS X Lion, TM started to do its backups (as it should have). Then when I decided to go back to SL, I reinstalled Leopard (because SL can't install on its own. It has to install over Leopard) then I installed SL over Leopard. Then when I ran SL and tried to restore TM, SL said that TM was incompatible with SL. So I gather LionTM can't be read by SL because had been backed up by Lion.
> 
> OH BOY.
> OH MY.


 

 Something tells me that you're not doomed... yet! I'd inquire (Apple forums/OS X sites) because the sequence of events seem recoverable by design. Well, providing you know what options are available. Trust me, you're not the first user who did this the exact same way... there's hope! You must protect the tube database at all cost!!! :~)


----------



## grokit

I guess I don't know that much about how Time Machine works for system restore (knock on wood, I never will). I've only had to use it once and that was just to recover some mistakenly thrown-out Trash


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ok...I thought my 6SN7s were running cooler..so its not my imagination..
> 
> I'm using the original Apogee Duet, but it's acting all funny now, because Apogee still is not supporting Lion. I'll be switching to Musical fidelity V-Dac soon.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Ok...I thought my 6SN7s were running cooler..so its not my imagination..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Which 6SN7 tubes are you running? My 6SN7W's are only running appx 64% of its maximum plate dissipation; my 6SN7GTA's at only 45% of maximum plate dissipation. The amp sees these tubes as barely being turned on. Slightly less gain at the volume pot. But then, the WA6SE isn't lacking - just turn that bad boy up a bit! In contrast, the 6EW7's run much hotter; more gain early on the pot.
   
  People often (well, sometimes I suppose) get gifts upon announcing their intent to walk down the aisle. Especially when there is out-of-town relatives or friends who won't be attending and will part with something "Going away" so to speak. Or when you visit somewhere. Yeah, you see where this is going... _"Baby, it was a gift!"  _





  In fact, have the boys in Santa Monica send it to you as a gift on behalf of say, 'Silent One' (though you'll pay for it).
   
  It wasn't clear to me which OS X version you have. Did you upgrade to Lion already or do you have Snow Leopard? I'm told that with Lion and iTunes 10.4 that booting into 64-bit kernel happens by default. I have iTunes 10.4 but w/Snow Leopard and simply manually boot into "64" by habit. The reason for doing so is that "64" has superior audio drivers. But Apple's latest OS (Lion) and iTunes takes care of this for many. So, in the event you're running Snow Leopard simply hold down the number "6" & "4" keys on start/restart until the blue screen appears. Then log-in and voila!
   
  To check your boot status (just in case you waited too long to depress the "6" & "4" keys) just click on the Apple icon>About This Mac>More Info>Software (left-hand pane) and second line from the bottom will show Yes or No for 64-bit Kernel & extensions.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've pretty much got it typed out, I'll give my thoughts more time to percolate and make sure I've expressed myself well.  I hope you guys know what you've unleashed by asking me to write this, knowing how longwinded I am.
> 
> I'm going to have to d a separate post for each tube because I ended up writing way more than I intended.  Look forward to it (or run away screaming, I won't judge).


 

 Great!  Looking forward to it.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It is my hope that anyone reading this reply doesn't think I'm trying to speak on other member's behalf. However, it is my opinion after reading this thread for a couple of years, and then officially signing-up once I purchased my Woo last year, that this thread is a place where members value each others time and contributions.
> 
> Additionally, on 26 July, I posted that I also felt _Woo Audio Owner Unite is a diverse thread of amicable quality__._..


 

 X2!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ And to Boot! (no pun intended) Lion makes my Mac run so hot that the internal fan is on all the time and the back of the Mac feels like the mosaic sidewalks of Copacabana. So I decided to switch back to SL because of the heat/fan issue but when I reinstalled SL and used Time Machine to restore, Lion had already fiddled with and updated my files so they could no longer work in SL so it was back to Lion, then I had a thought about fixing some files in SL, so I reinstalled SL again and then Lion on top of that to no avail, hence install #4. I am stuck with Lion.
> 
> SHERLOCK TO THE RESCUE and it's back to PBS until bed time.


 

 I am so glad my life is Microsoft Windows simple.


----------



## Icenine2

Yes!!!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Dinner ~
> 
> I'm guessing you ordered Take-out to minimize time away from the Cavalli, yes?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'd love to hear that combination along with the DAC-2.  All W4S.


 

  
  Are you out here in the bay area?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> August ~
> 
> _Love to hear it? I'm goin' to hear it... August!_


 

 It should all be broken in by then.  Looking forward to it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I am so glad my life is Microsoft Windows simple.


 
  Having a simple operating system like Microsoft Windows gives you the advantage for sure. For now you will surely be able to concentrate on the mundane task of selecting, amongst the many, the audio accoutrements of DACs, ICs, transports, tubes, headphones, and the such rather than to presume upon Microsoft's tolerance. A lighthearted duty to say the least.


----------



## BrucYSN

word on street
  All new Woo amp would have a new and much improved out transformer


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> word on street
> All new Woo amp would have a new and much improved out transformer


 
  Does that mean it will be able to handle a larger range of headphones?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Are you out here in the bay area?


 
  I'm out in the sweltering tire melting, flesh searing heat of the Sonoran desert in AZ.  We laugh at the reports of the rest of the country in a heat wave.   But my brother and his wife live in S.F so I might have an excuse to visit them now.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> word on street
> All new Woo amp would have a new and much improved out transformer


 

 Do you mean all the Woo's from this point on will have new transformers or just the very expensive one that is coming on the market?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm out in the sweltering tire melting, flesh searing heat of the Sonoran desert in AZ.  We laugh at the reports of the rest of the country in a heat wave.   But my brother and his wife live in S.F so I might have an excuse to visit them now.


 
  It is currently 70 degrees in SF and if you decide to cool off here then bring your hp and drop on by.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Yes!!!


 


  Weather update ~
   
  Any 'Weather Report' coming out of your sessions? Surely, you'd like to see how the Cavalli handles the complexity and deftness of World renown bassist Jaco Pastorius, yes??


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Weather update ~
> Any 'Weather Report' coming out of your sessions? Surely, you'd like to see how the Cavalli handles the complexity and deftness of World renown bassist Jaco Pastorius, yes??


 

 Are you back in the Bay Area? How's it brewing? DAC & tea.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Are you back in the Bay Area? How's it brewing? DAC & tea.


 

_Are you back (& broke) in the Bay Area?_
   
  Yes. And I'm looking forward to visiting two S.F. libraries - the main branch and your apartment. Well, maybe post AMS anyway...  The DAC-1 is coming along quite nicely at a "non-mikemalter" pace of 336 hours. The sonics again shifted beautifully at 316 hours.
   
  Now mulling Caps v. Tubes for it (would be of same value for either purchase). Hmmmm, Caps v. Tubes... what would you do (any of you)?
   
  Tea is always a delight, especially with the AC blowing. Why does the cost of tea always seem so prohibitively expensive when try to buy audio gear?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"Are you back & broke in the Bay Area?" _
> 
> Yes. And I'm looking forward to visiting two S.F. libraries - the main branch and your apartment. Well, maybe post AMS anyway...
> The DAC-1 is coming along quite nicely at a "non-mikemalter" pace of 336 hours. The sonics again shifted beautifully at 316 hours. No mulling Caps v. Tubes for it (would be of same value for either purchase).
> ...


 
  After the Main Library swing on up to my place. It's only 11 blocks up Hyde St then 4 blocks down Pine St. Weekends are best. I have no furniture. I sit and contemplate on the carpet. Actually I got rid of all of my furniture to buy new furniture and then realized that the sound in my apartment is much better without furniture so I have postponed buying any replacements. I have no bed. I sleep on this which, by the way, is very comfortable. Now that's the kind of logic I find a bit obtuse. I should post that in the You know you're an audiophile when... thread.


----------



## PanamaRed

Wow, you are hardcore. My WA-22 has seen little use for the last few weeks because I set up a little audio station downstairs next to a large indonesian day-bed with some of my "lower end" amps. In short, I love comfort. In my man cave where I have my main audio setup I have an executive chair which is comfortable but i'm at a point where when I relax I want to really kick back. It has worked out for me pretty well. I've been listening to a lot of jazz through my hd650 and little dot mkiii and have fallen asleep numerous times in music heaven. I want to spend more time with my main setup but i'll probably be content with my downstairs setup until I can afford a nice recliner or deluxe bean bag chair and one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126039
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> After the Main Library swing on up to my place. It's only 11 blocks up Hyde St then 4 blocks down Pine St. Weekends are best. I have no furniture. I sit and contemplate on the carpet. Actually I got rid of all of my furniture to buy new furniture and then realized that the sound in my apartment is much better without furniture so I have postponed buying any replacements. I have no bed. I sleep on this which, by the way, is very comfortable. Now that's the kind of logic I find a bit obtuse. I should post that in the You know you're an audiophile when... thread.


----------



## jerico

warriorant said:


> What Mac are you using?    I'm not going to upgrade my iMac until W4S tells me my DAC-2 driver will work on it.




FWIW, I have had no problems with my W4S DAC2 and Lion, using the current USB driver. However, I did a clean install of Lion on that machine (ie I wiped the hard disk completely and installed Lion from scratch, rather than installing it over Snow Leopard).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> After the Main Library swing on up to my place. It's only 11 blocks up Hyde St then 4 blocks down Pine St. Weekends are best. I have no furniture. I sit and contemplate on the carpet. Actually I got rid of all of my furniture to buy new furniture and then realized that the sound in my apartment is much better without furniture so I have postponed buying any replacements. I have no bed. I sleep on this which, by the way, is very comfortable. Now that's the kind of logic I find a bit obtuse. I should post that in the You know you're an audiophile when... thread.


 


  Coleman - that's what I call dedicated! Or committed, I don't judge. :~)  I've got to revisit that thread later tonight... hilarious. The truth is biting, sometimes! I actually have a number of visits to the S.F. Library in my past. But the visits never had an audio purpose. This visit will be different! (understatement   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  )
   
  I bet the sound inside your listening room was a pleasant surprise, what a discovery!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Wow, you are hardcore. My WA-22 has seen little use for the last few weeks because I set up a little audio station downstairs next to a large indonesian day-bed with some of my "lower end" amps. In short, I love comfort. In my man cave where I have my main audio setup I have an executive chair which is comfortable but i'm at a point where when I relax I want to really kick back. It has worked out for me pretty well. I've been listening to a lot of jazz through my hd650 and little dot mkiii and have fallen asleep numerous times in music heaven. I want to spend more time with my main setup but i'll probably be content with my downstairs setup until I can afford a nice recliner or deluxe bean bag chair and one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126039


 
  LOL. I passed out on my inflatable bed about an hour ago and just woke up with my HD650 sitting nicely on my head playing beautifully and driven by my WA4. My sinuses are aching which is a sure indication that I've been snoring quite violently. I love my HD650s. I just rediscovered them. I bought them about a year and a half ago and they never sounded quite right until recently. Of course I wasn't using them all the time. But they finally sound fantastic. Clean and clear and no more veil. Yes!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Wow, you are hardcore. My WA-22 has seen little use for the last few weeks because I set up a little audio station downstairs next to a large indonesian day-bed with some of my "lower end" amps. In short, I love comfort. In my man cave where I have my main audio setup I have an executive chair which is comfortable but i'm at a point where when I relax I want to really kick back. It has worked out for me pretty well. I've been listening to a lot of jazz through my hd650 and little dot mkiii and have fallen asleep numerous times in music heaven. I want to spend more time with my main setup but i'll probably be content with my downstairs setup until I can afford a nice recliner or deluxe bean bag chair and one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126039


 

 Comfort ~
   
  When I slide my audio and computer rigs into a U-shape configuration, with my executive black leather chair at center, everything is at my fingertips and downright comforting. But it comes at a price! I noticed I was standing up less; moving about and circulating less. Especially when listening sessions approached a state of reverie. But this is not healthy. So, now I must constantly remind myself (convince?) to get up and from time-to-time get out!  Sometimes, the sessions get that good...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> LOL. I passed out on my inflatable bed about an hour ago and just woke up with my HD650 sitting nicely on my head playing beautifully and driven by my WA4. My sinuses are aching which is a sure indication that I've been snoring quite violently. I love my HD650s. I just rediscovered them. I bought them about a year and a half ago and they never sounded quite right until recently. Of course I wasn't using them all the time. But they finally sound fantastic. Clean and clear and no more veil. Yes!


 


  You're lucky! I heard about the infamous Sennheiser veil for the 600-650 series a few years back. It sent everyone scrambling to get re-cabled. Did you just achieve the miraculous or did you re-cable?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're lucky! I heard about the infamous Sennheiser veil for the 600-650 series a few years back. It sent everyone scrambling to get re-cabled. Did you just achieve the miraculous or did you re-cable?


 

 No re-cabling. Just continuous playing and listening and setting them aside. I guess they finally burned in after 1-1/2 years. I mean, it's like a new headphone really! I was always disappointed in them when I would attempt to listen to them over and over again. But what happened was I got the SWA b22 and its sound is slightly aggressive with my DT990 600 ohms. So I started using the HD650 when listening to the b22 and it was still a little dark sounding. Well lately I've been putting the 650s on at night and falling asleep only hearing about 1.5 songs before I passed out. Then just recently I've certainly begun to notice that the 650s have opened up quite considerably. It's about a 65% improvement since I first got them. Very nice. Though warmer sounding than the 990s the highs come through very nicely and comfortably. A nice sparkle.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No re-cabling. Just continuous playing and listening and setting them aside. I guess they finally burned in after 1-1/2 years. I mean, it's like a new headphone really! I was always disappointed in them when I would attempt to listen to them over and over again. But what happened was I got the SWA b22 and its sound is slightly aggressive with my DT990 600 ohms. So I started using the HD650 when listening to the b22 and it was still a little dark sounding. Well lately I've been putting the 650s on at night and falling asleep only hearing about 1.5 songs before I passed out. Then just recently I've certainly begun to notice that the 650s have opened up quite considerably. It's about a 65% improvement since I first got them. Very nice. Though warmer sounding than the 990s the highs come through very nicely and comfortably. A nice sparkle.


 

 I had the same experience with the D5000's. Just shy of two years and around 1,200 hours, the Denon's became a completely different headphone, I was baffled yet delighted!
   
  Currently being 'domestic' (housework), listening to KCSM fm - "_Jazz on the Latin side"_, and reminiscing about my D5000's with my then new WA6SE this time last year...
   
  Though I listen to jazzandblues.org (Long Beach) around the house most of the time.


----------



## Clayton SF

I know. And just when I am beginning to contemplate the purchase of the Cavalli Liquid Fire and the LCD-2(r2). Contemplating, mind you. I haven't traveled to Kentucky to visit Fort Knox. Not yet, at least. Well in my dreams with my 650 straddling my head and the WA4 playing softly at notch 4 on the stepped attenuator.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know. And just when I am beginning to contemplate the purchase of the Cavalli Liquid Fire and the LCD-2(r2). Contemplating, mind you. I haven't traveled to Kentucky to visit Fort Knox. Not yet, at least. Well in my dreams with my 650 straddling my head and the WA4 playing softly at notch 4 on the stepped attenuator.


 

 A stepped attenuator is clearly a step I missed during purchase! I came to appreciate this missing step only a few weeks after taking delivery. My original plan (early) was to simply get the upgrade the first year if I had to send the amp back for any other reason. Well, on the one hand my Woo has been free of defect, great! 
   
  I hesitate now because, who wants to be away from their Woo?! If I had DIY skills like the OP (and some of you), I'd open it up and just do it!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Which 6SN7 tubes are you running? My 6SN7W's are only running appx 64% of its maximum plate dissipation; my 6SN7GTA's at only 45% of maximum plate dissipation. The amp sees these tubes as barely being turned on. Slightly less gain at the volume pot. But then, the WA6SE isn't lacking - just turn that bad boy up a bit! In contrast, the 6EW7's run much hotter; more gain early on the pot.
> 
> People often (well, sometimes I suppose) get gifts upon announcing their intent to walk down the aisle. Especially when there is out-of-town relatives or friends who won't be attending and will part with something "Going away" so to speak. Or when you visit somewhere. Yeah, you see where this is going... _"Baby, it was a gift!"  _
> 
> ...


 

 I'm running SL but don't to anything special when I am booting into iTunes, I guess that means that I am running it in 32-bit mode? I know that you can force certain 64-bit applications like Safari to run in 32-bit mode when it wants to run in 64-bit mode, by pulling up the "info" box for the application:
   

   
  But iTunes doesn't seem to have this option, and doesn't show me the Yes and No part either:
   

   
  Also as I am running iTunes through PureMusic I don't know how booting into 64-bit mode (if I'm not already) would affect things, I will have to give that a try!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm running SL but don't to anything special when I am booting into it, I guess that means that I am running in 32-bit mode? I know that you can force certain 64-bit applications like Safari to run in 32-bit mode when it wants to run in 64-bit mode, by pulling up the "info" box for the application:
> 
> 
> 
> But iTunes doesn't seem to have this option. Also as I am running iTunes through PureMusic I don't know how booting into 64-bit mode (if I'm not already) might affect things, I will have to give that a try!


 

 SL boots into 32-bit by default. This is why one must either do this manually or setup a script to automate the process. It's so quick that I no longer think about it; just a part of my routine. Some tweaks are very subtle individually but their sums can easily be determined. Booting into the 64-bit Kernel is noticeable without strain - better audio drivers.
   
  In '64' the only program I ever needed to force into '32' was my EMU-0404 due to the 32-bit ASIO driver. Then when I switched to Optical out, this became moot.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Having a simple operating system like Microsoft Windows gives you the advantage for sure. For now you will surely be able to concentrate on the mundane task of selecting, amongst the many, the audio accoutrements of DACs, ICs, transports, tubes, headphones, and the such rather than to presume upon Microsoft's tolerance. A lighthearted duty to say the least.


 

 I was actually just joking.  MS is just as much as a pain as Apple.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm out in the sweltering tire melting, flesh searing heat of the Sonoran desert in AZ.  We laugh at the reports of the rest of the country in a heat wave.   But my brother and his wife live in S.F so I might have an excuse to visit them now.


 

 Sure, if you find yourself out here, let me know.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> SL boots into 32-bit by default. This is why one must either do this manually or setup a script to automate the process. It's so quick that I no longer think about it; just a part of my routine. Some tweaks are very subtle individually but their sums can easily be determined. Booting into the 64-bit Kernel is noticeable without strain - better audio drivers.


 

 I know nothing about what you speak. And I thought my Time Machine issue with Lion was a bear! And you're talking 32- 62-bit Kernel stuff.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I was actually just joking.  MS is just as much as a pain as Apple.


 

 Then perhaps those Linux based music servers are the best then. But isn't Linux a Unix? Huh?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Are you back (& broke) in the Bay Area?_
> 
> Yes. And I'm looking forward to visiting two S.F. libraries - the main branch and your apartment. Well, maybe post AMS anyway...  The DAC-1 is coming along quite nicely at a "non-mikemalter" pace of 336 hours. The sonics again shifted beautifully at 316 hours.
> 
> ...


 

 Wha???? Tubes you say.  Is there a mod for the W4S DAC I don't know about?

 By the way, I did turn off all of my gear this morning in the spirit of the SilentOne's theory of turning off is part of breaking in.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> SL boots into 32-bit by default. This is why one must either do this manually or setup a script to automate the process. It's so quick that I no longer think about it; just a part of my routine. Some tweaks are very subtle individually but their sums can easily be determined. Booting into the 64-bit Kernel is noticeable without strain - better audio drivers.
> 
> In '64' the only program I ever needed to force into '32' was my EMU-0404 due to the 32-bit ASIO driver. Then when I switched to Optical out, this became moot.


 
   
  Ah yes, optical out. This is a very good option when I boot into windows or use my HP laptop. But I didn't get that silver USB cable for nothing.
   
  I updated my post while you were quoting it, but no matter. I finally figured out how to get the optional Channel D driver to load in Hog Mode, there is a definite difference in clarity and detail. But "integer playback" seems like a fail, I get no sound and upsampling is disabled.
   
  But now that I have done that, even though my audio prefs say that I am running my audio output through AstoundSound, and AstoundSound prefs say that it is on and running out through the Channel D driver, the AstoundSound logo has disappeared from the menu bar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will now proceed to see if I can _screw things up even further_ by booting iTunes into 64-bit mode; sometimes I suspect that there_ are a few to many options here_


----------



## tupac0306

I thought it's better to ask this question here.
   
  Guys. What's your impressions of WA 6 SE on lCD 2? 
  Are there just no tubes combinations that can bring the good potential of LCD 2? because that's what I heard from some people saying WA 6 SE just can't make LCD 2 sound in its full potential no matter what tubes are using. Is this true?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Wha???? Tubes you say.  Is there a mod for the W4S DAC I don't know about?
> 
> By the way, I did turn off all of my gear this morning in the spirit of the SilentOne's theory of turning off is part of breaking in.


 

 No, the DAC-1 lacks the Super Caps that comes standard with the DAC-2; an upgrade for me only. But then, in my attempt to recover a little bit of slam (greed, really...), I was giving thought to either replacing the caps inside the DAC or getting a new pair of tubes of equal purchase. And must decide by Midnight (6 hours from now)
   
  As much as cables like to sing, and as much as you want them to sing, they do so when they're allowed to be at rest. For those members that are fidgety by nature, this means keeping your grubby lil' hands OFF your cables! And nervously moving your cable and gear around while you dilly-dally. I use to work Winter/Summer CES and after all the moving and transporting of gear, even if we could setup in a matter of a few hours, we allowed a few extra days for the gear and cables to get burned-in and settled. Not doing so can be very telling! (yes, hard-headed vendors learn just like customers). RMAF wisely will leave their gear on well before the show too. 
   
  Although I forget the actual dollar amount, but when I learned of Prince's staggering Utility bill in 1984-1985 my jaw dropped. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He never turned off any of his gear or allowed any of it to be moved, period, unless it was necessary! It makes a difference in sound being relaxed. If cables are moved and bent then it takes more playing time for them to settle back down. 
   
  By chance, did you look into the IsoTek discs?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Ah yes, optical out. This is a very good option when I boot into windows or use my HP laptop. But I didn't get that silver USB cable for nothing.
> 
> I updated my post while you were quoting it, but no matter. I finally figured out how to get the optional Channel D driver to load in Hog Mode, there is a definite difference in clarity and detail. But "integer playback" seems like a fail, I get no sound and upsampling is disabled.
> 
> ...


 

 What would this hobby be like without endless pursuit?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No, the DAC-1 lacks the Super Caps that comes standard with the DAC-2; an upgrade for me only. But then, in my attempt to recover a little bit of slam (greed, really...), I was giving thought to either replacing the caps inside the DAC or getting a new pair of tubes of equal purchase. And must decide by Midnight (6 hours from now)
> 
> As much as cables like to sing, and as much as you want them to sing, they do so when they're allowed to be at rest. For those members that are fidgety by nature, this means keeping your grubby lil' hands OFF your cables! And nervously moving your cable and gear around while you dilly-dally. I use to work Winter/Summer CES and after all the moving and transporting of gear, even if we could setup in a matter of a few hours, we allowed a few extra days for the gear and cables to get burned-in and settled. Not doing so can be very telling! (yes, hard-headed vendors learn just like customers). RMAF wisely will leave their gear on well before the show too.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, if you can make it over here, you can plug your 6 into my 2 and can hear first hand if that will make a difference.  Also, I do have some other tubes here you could try to get a better sense of what is what.  If it were me, I'd build up the source stuff given you have a Woo on the player end.
   
  X2 on the cables.  I find if I move certain cables from one piece of gear to another, it can take a day before things settle down.
   
  I have not looked into the IsoTek discs.  I'm probably going to go the tube dampner route, but I should look in that direction as well before I do anything.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, if you can make it over here, you can plug your 6 into my 2 and can hear first hand if that will make a difference.  Also, I do have some other tubes here you could try to get a better sense of what is what.  If it were me, I'd build up the source stuff given you have a Woo on the player end.
> 
> X2 on the cables.  I find if I move certain cables from one piece of gear to another, it can take a day before things settle down.
> 
> I have not looked into the IsoTek discs.  I'm probably going to go the tube dampner route, but I should look in that direction as well before I do anything.


 

 Tempting ~
   
  Hmmmm, it's just after 18:00. I understand it's Sunday so, what kind of hours you keeping this evening if I'm swayed? I think I'll remain patient, so that tonight's visit won't end up resembling the first with good times but far too short visit. The next visit can offer more time, luxury... and that cup of tea you owe me! (kidding)  





   
  Actually, I drink tea daily, so make it an espresso... _Roma style, baby! _


----------



## mikemalter

Question about preamps in the headphone amp mix.
   
  What is better, turning up the volume on the headphone amp, or on the preamp?
   
  Right now I run my WA22 between 5 to 9 clicks on high with HD800.  My preamp goes up to 80 and it stays passive below 64.  At 65 it becomes active.  I'm running it between 30 and 60 depending on the music.
   
  I don't want to have one piece of gear too hot or compress the signal too much, and I'd like to get the right balance of amplification.  However, if the amp is passive below 64 and I have it at say 60 (keeping it passive), I could just control listening volume on the Woo.
   
  Is there a best way to do this?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Why send a pre-amp output to the WA22at all? If you want to use a pre-amp for source selection with the WA22, just send a tape out from the per-amp to the WA22, and then use the volume control just on the Woo. 

Two volume controls is really not good.


----------



## Clayton SF

15 days until I depart for the Netherlands to hook up with some Head-Fi members who live there. I've been promised a beer in both Amsterdam and Belgium. And a guy named Rene who works for Music On Vinyl in Rotterdam is going to get me some vinyl at cost (could be a bad idea). Now I have to make sure I have enough room in my suitcase to take one WA6 and enough room to bring back about 10 pounds of vinyl. Now how many records would that be? It's a good thing that Woo amps have a 110/220 voltage switch on its rear. Is it that hard to have a switch like that all amps?  Then again there's the issue of 100v in Japan (the Leben).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Why send a pre-amp output to the WA22at all? If you want to use a pre-amp for source selection with the WA22, just send a tape out from the per-amp to the WA22, and then use the volume control just on the Woo.
> 
> Two volume controls is really not good.


 
   
  I'm going to need to check in with the W4S folks tomorrow.  There is not a traditional tape out that can be selected.  Actually, there is no output selection at all, you select the input and it appears, which I am going to have to check,  that all outputs are equally open.
   
  At any rate, your thinking is that it's best not to go through a preamp at all and simply have the WA22 handle volume through the DAC?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 15 days until I depart for the Netherlands to hook up with some Head-Fi members who live there. I've been promised a beer in both Amsterdam and Belgium. And a guy named Rene who works for Music On Vinyl in Rotterdam is going to get me some vinyl at cost (could be a bad idea). Now I have to make sure I have enough room in my suitcase to take one WA6 and enough room to bring back about 10 pounds of vinyl. Now how many records would that be? It's a good thing that Woo amps have a 110/220 voltage switch on its rear. Is it that hard to have a switch like that all amps?  Then again there's the issue of 100v in Japan (the Leben).


 

 Ten pounds of vinyl?  That may be about 25 albums or so.  Sounds like a really great trip ahead.  I'll bet your friends will really love your WA6.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ... I learned of Prince's staggering Utility bill in 1984-1985 my jaw dropped.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You've got to be kidding, right? Did he just play in one spot for the whole year? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't see how he could have avoided bending cables while doing pirouettes between amps with his guitar.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ten pounds of vinyl?  That may be about 25 albums or so.  Sounds like a really great trip ahead.  I'll bet your friends will really love your WA6.


 

 25 albums? Okay, maybe 5 pounds of vinyl.
  None of them own a Woo; it's too expensive to ship (relatively speaking).
  Although I know of a few people who own much heavier Woos who live in Asia.... And isn't Hong Kong a bit further from NY than Amsterdam?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 25 albums? Okay, maybe 5 pounds of vinyl.
> None of them own a Woo; it's too expensive to ship (relatively speaking).
> Although I know of a few people who own much heavier Woos who live in Asia.... And isn't Hong Kong a bit further from NY than Amsterdam?


 

 I've dealt  with The Netherlands (buyer of my D5000's). Shipping, while expensive, isn't the worse of it - it's the bite of Customs that really gets them!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 25 albums? Okay, maybe 5 pounds of vinyl.
> None of them own a Woo; it's too expensive to ship (relatively speaking).
> Although I know of a few people who own much heavier Woos who live in Asia.... And isn't Hong Kong a bit further from NY than Amsterdam?


 

 Can't wait to see what audiophile grade pressings you return with! Weather Report? Herbie Hancock?? Astrud Gilberto?! My Woo is in the corner, salivating no less!


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 15 days until I depart for the Netherlands to hook up with some Head-Fi members who live there. I've been promised a beer in both Amsterdam and Belgium. And a guy named Rene who works for Music On Vinyl in Rotterdam is going to get me some vinyl at cost (could be a bad idea). Now I have to make sure I have enough room in my suitcase to take one WA6 and enough room to bring back about 10 pounds of vinyl. Now how many records would that be? It's a good thing that Woo amps have a 110/220 voltage switch on its rear. Is it that hard to have a switch like that all amps?  Then again there's the issue of 100v in Japan (the Leben).


 


   
  Ehh, a shame it is still two weeks before you get there. I will be there tomorrow until Friday and would love to meet with some crazy head-fiers as every single head-fi meet is on dates I cannot attend.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 15 days until I depart for the Netherlands to hook up with some Head-Fi members who live there. I've been promised a beer in both Amsterdam and Belgium. And a guy named Rene who works for Music On Vinyl in Rotterdam is going to get me some vinyl at cost (could be a bad idea). Now I have to make sure I have enough room in my suitcase to take one WA6 and enough room to bring back about 10 pounds of vinyl. Now how many records would that be? It's a good thing that Woo amps have a 110/220 voltage switch on its rear. Is it that hard to have a switch like that all amps?  Then again there's the issue of 100v in Japan (the Leben).


 

 Let me see what my buyer and fellow head-fier is up to; put you two in contact (The Netherlands). Both of you are great members!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Ehh, a shame it is still two weeks before you get there. I will be there tomorrow until Friday and would love to meet with some crazy head-fiers as every single head-fi meet is on dates I cannot attend.


 

 Darn, well I hope you get to enjoy some good theater, et al, in Vondelpark. Check out what happening there when you're there. Have fun!
  http://www.openluchttheater.nl/
  Music on Vinyl is in the Netherlands, too: http://www.musiconvinyl.com/


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Darn, well I hope you get to enjoy some good theater, et al, in Vondelpark. Check out what happening there when you're there. Have fun!
> http://www.openluchttheater.nl/
> Music on Vinyl is in the Netherlands, too: http://www.musiconvinyl.com/


 


   
   
  No pricing. PM sent...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Why send a pre-amp output to the WA22at all? If you want to use a pre-amp for source selection with the WA22, just send a tape out from the per-amp to the WA22, and then use the volume control just on the Woo.
> 
> Two volume controls is really not good.


 

 Skylab,
   
  Just thought of something else.  What about when we are using vinyl into our WA22's. 
   
  Can you share your thinking a little more about why it's not good to have two volume controls?
   
  On my end I'm going to do some listening test to hear if there is any difference.
   
  Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## BrucYSN

Looks like the hum got nothing to do with my amp lol


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What would this hobby be like without endless pursuit?


 

 After booting into the 64-bit OS, I've been pursuing the options in PureMusic tonight, they are truly endless alright. After a few hours I am really happy with the improvements though.
  I have my processor load up from <1 to 2%, so I'm finally getting some real mileage out of it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 15 days until I depart for the Netherlands to hook up with some Head-Fi members who live there. I've been promised a beer in both Amsterdam and Belgium. And a guy named Rene who works for Music On Vinyl in Rotterdam is going to get me some vinyl at cost (could be a bad idea). Now I have to make sure I have enough room in my suitcase to take one WA6 and enough room to bring back about 10 pounds of vinyl. Now how many records would that be? It's a good thing that Woo amps have a 110/220 voltage switch on its rear. Is it that hard to have a switch like that all amps?  Then again there's the issue of 100v in Japan (the Leben).


 

 I picked up one of my favorite pieces of vinyl ever from there, over 20 years ago from a little shop in Amsterdam (he won a Grammy for best instrumental album with this one):
   

   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You've got to be kidding, right? Did he just play in one spot for the whole year?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No, the DAC-1 lacks the Super Caps that comes standard with the DAC-2; an upgrade for me only. But then, in my attempt to recover a little bit of slam (greed, really...), I was giving thought to either replacing the caps inside the DAC or getting a new pair of tubes of equal purchase. And must decide by Midnight (6 hours from now)
> 
> As much as cables like to sing, and as much as you want them to sing, they do so when they're allowed to be at rest. For those members that are fidgety by nature, this means keeping your grubby lil' hands OFF your cables! And nervously moving your cable and gear around while you dilly-dally. I use to work Winter/Summer CES and after all the moving and transporting of gear, even if we could setup in a matter of a few hours, we allowed a few extra days for the gear and cables to get burned-in and settled. Not doing so can be very telling! (yes, hard-headed vendors learn just like customers). RMAF wisely will leave their gear on well before the show too.
> 
> ...


 
  dose that apply to digital cables too?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> dose that apply to digital cables too?


 

 Great question, though I don't make a distinction, giving each of my cables the same respect. Does your reply suggest you're the fidgety type? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   By chance, did you get to the bottom of the hum? Good thing it's not your Woo! Possibly environmental, some AC or Airborne nasties... let us know.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great question, though I don't make a distinction, giving each of my cables the same respect. Does your reply suggest you're the fidgety type?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It wasn't the DAC nor the Woo itself, I turn off the DAC and turn volume to max on Woo and got nothing, I turn on the DAC and amp alone, and it's still silent... and I don't think it could be the transport, so my theory is , bad record.... Although I'm still going to switch to a different wall plug and try a better power cords on my amp, see if that change anything which I really doubt. 
   
  Btw have you experienced different digital cable, namely coaxial? Difference? I got a 18 ft blue jeans , and wonder what're other possibilities.
   
  Reason I asked is that my sacd and cd transport are currently sharing same digital cable >.<


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> It wasn't the DAC nor the Woo itself, I turn off the DAC and turn volume to max on Woo and got nothing, I turn on the DAC and amp alone, and it's still silent... and I don't think it could be the transport, so my theory is , bad record.... Although I'm still going to switch to a different wall plug and try a better power cords on my amp, see if that change anything which I really doubt.
> 
> Btw have you experienced different digital cable, namely coaxial? Difference? I got a 18 ft blue jeans , and wonder what're other possibilities.
> 
> Reason I asked is that my sacd and cd transport are currently sharing same digital cable >.<


 
  I go USB to my DAC-2 but the next upgrade I make to the system is going to be a Blue Heaven USB 2.0 cable.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I picked up one of my favorite pieces of vinyl ever from there, over 20 years ago from a little shop in Amsterdam (he won a Grammy for best instrumental album with this one):
> 
> [Frank Zappa - Jazz From Hell]


 

 Do you remember at which record store you bought the Zappa record?
  I came across _Record Friend_ strolling down this street the day before I left in Dec. 2010:


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello from Italy to all dear folks of Head-fi! I have been reading this (and all Woo forums) for a couple of months and now I decided to write something. First of all sorry for my poor English. I have bought from Jack a Wa22 last December: it is true that shipping and customs are expensive but Euro was strong (9 months ago!) and also I have read a very favourable review (on 6moons) about the combination of Wa22 with Senn HD-800 so I made the big step and now I am a proud Woo owner! I am an old fashioned music lover: no ripping, no streaming, no pc, no ipod, only CD's. I have got over 3500,00 CD's (all originals, no copy!) and this list is growing monthly. I love classical, jazz, rock (especially classic rock), folk, blues, celtic music, brasilian music, a little of pop (old singers like Frank, Dean, Sammy Davis, etc.) so frequently I don't understand at all your post about ripping music etc but I read them always with interest. One question for all of you: are you certain that the best SQ nowadays is from high resolution ripped music played through a pc/Dac/preamp/can (or speakers?). I have just bought the incredible (especially for the price!) Naim 555 and, after only playing it for 5 days I must say that my HD-800 and my Wa22 (currently as tubes I have WE421a, Tung Sol Black Glass round plates and a Sophia Princess 274 mesh) are incredible, wonderful, perfect. The best headphone and preampli in the world! Warm analogue sound, treble, midrange and bass perfect (on Hd 800!) so for me source is the most important thing in an High-End system because permits to obtain the best from all the other components. What do you think about it?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hello from San Francisco and welcome to the forum, LUMAZ. Your English is, quite frankly, impeccable.
   
  I do agree with what you wrote. I listen to original CDs and it is usually because I don't see me spending any more time ripping music--I'd rather just plop a CD into the player and listen. I do, however, have a DAC. I enjoy browsing through my CD collection (and vinyl as well) looking for the perfect CD for the moment and just listening to it in its entirety. I feel in that way it connects me to what the artist had intended to convey in their music. Like the Beatles White LP--I can't imagine listening to that on random; then again, to each his/her own, yes?
   
  Your WA22 is using very nice tubes!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello from Italy to all dear folks of Head-fi! I have been reading this (and all Woo forums) for a couple of months and now I decided to write something. First of all sorry for my poor English. I have bought from Jack a Wa22 last December: it is true that shipping and customs are expensive but Euro was strong (9 months ago!) and also I have read a very favourable review (on 6moons) about the combination of Wa22 with Senn HD-800 so I made the big step and now I am a proud Woo owner! I am an old fashioned music lover: no ripping, no streaming, no pc, no ipod, only CD's. I have got over 3500,00 CD's (all originals, no copy!) and this list is growing monthly. I love classical, jazz, rock (especially classic rock), folk, blues, celtic music, brasilian music, a little of pop (old singers like Frank, Dean, Sammy Davis, etc.) so frequently I don't understand at all your post about ripping music etc but I read them always with interest. One question for all of you: are you certain that the best SQ nowadays is from high resolution ripped music played through a pc/Dac/preamp/can (or speakers?). I have just bought the incredible (especially for the price!) Naim 555 and, after only playing it for 5 days I must say that my HD-800 and my Wa22 (currently as tubes I have WE421a, Tung Sol Black Glass round plates and a Sophia Princess 274 mesh) are incredible, wonderful, perfect. The best headphone and preampli in the world! Warm analogue sound, treble, midrange and bass perfect (on Hd 800!) so for me source is the most important thing in an High-End system because permits to obtain the best from all the other components. What do you think about it?


 

 Lumaz,
   
  Bene! Welcome to the thread.
   
  I can see our musical tastes are the same.
   
  With regard to ripping music, it's not that the sound quality is better, it is just that a music library ripped to a hard drive has a convenience to it that CD's don't have.  I have my entire music library at my finger tips and I can search by genre or other categories and then play a mix of music within those sets. 
   
  There are a lot of different ways to structure a media library, and I am using a Bryston BDP-1 which has my hard drive attached and streams out a digital signal to my DAC.  I like it because it is a high fidelity mechanism to feed my DAC.  I spent the last 4 months going through a lot of equipment trying to find a way to realize the promise of the convenience of a media library with the sonic quality of CD's.  There was a lot of trial and error on my part and I finally settled on the BDP-1 as it did not have the digital smearing I could hear with the other products I was trying.  Having said that, it seemed like I was the only one who was hearing that problem as a lot of people in this thread use streaming transports and DAC's with built-in streaming transports who love their sound.
   
  As for certianty that sound from a ripped CD is just as good as the CD itself.  A few months ago, Stereophile did a test to compare output at the bit level of a CD and a ripped CD in apple lossless through an iPod attached to a Wadia i170.  The result was a bit perfect comparison.  That is there was no difference in the output of the two devices.
  
  This is a really great thread because the people here are very friendly and there is a very wide range of experience and tastes, so comment freely and be prepared to learn.
   
  Welcome.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This is a really great thread because the people here are very friendly and there is a very wide range of experience and tastes, so comment freely and be prepared to learn.
> Welcome.


 

 I am learning every time I log on.
   
  Mike: (About your avatar.) I could use that basin of coffee you are holding in your hand at this very moment. I am at at work getting ready to do a self-assessment. If it weren't for the money--well then I wouldn't be able to get new toys, right? But I do hate this HR business sometimes. I should have dragged in my WA22 for the day.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello from Italy to all dear folks of Head-fi! I have been reading this (and all Woo forums) for a couple of months and now I decided to write something. First of all sorry for my poor English. I have bought from Jack a Wa22 last December: it is true that shipping and customs are expensive but Euro was strong (9 months ago!) and also I have read a very favourable review (on 6moons) about the combination of Wa22 with Senn HD-800 so I made the big step and now I am a proud Woo owner! I am an old fashioned music lover: no ripping, no streaming, no pc, no ipod, only CD's. I have got over 3500,00 CD's (all originals, no copy!) and this list is growing monthly. I love classical, jazz, rock (especially classic rock), folk, blues, celtic music, brasilian music, a little of pop (old singers like Frank, Dean, Sammy Davis, etc.) so frequently I don't understand at all your post about ripping music etc but I read them always with interest. One question for all of you: are you certain that the best SQ nowadays is from high resolution ripped music played through a pc/Dac/preamp/can (or speakers?). I have just bought the incredible (especially for the price!) Naim 555 and, after only playing it for 5 days I must say that my HD-800 and my Wa22 (currently as tubes I have WE421a, Tung Sol Black Glass round plates and a Sophia Princess 274 mesh) are incredible, wonderful, perfect. The best headphone and preampli in the world! Warm analogue sound, treble, midrange and bass perfect (on Hd 800!) so for me source is the most important thing in an High-End system because permits to obtain the best from all the other components. What do you think about it?


 


  Congratulations on the Woo and Naim 555. You must be in an audio place close to heaven! I do not own a CD player anywhere near the Naim 555 but I still like the sound of CDs played the old fashion way of one at a time. I would guess that you could go to a lot of testing and and demoing PC and music server playback before you find anything that will touch your Naim 555. The more you read the more you will see that 16bit/ 44.1 is still considered the way to go. What I'm saying is ripping to a server or looking for higher resolution digital files may not ever get you better sound than where your at. Some of my most respected friends in audio and on Head-Fi still use CD players and believe that 16 bit is fine when done right. You will notice that other ways to store music just give you the way to get songs quick. Nice to see someone else who believes the source is the most important thing!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am learning every time I log on.
> 
> Mike: (About your avatar.) I could use that basin of coffee you are holding in your hand at this very moment. I am at at work getting ready to do a self-assessment. If it weren't for the money--well then I wouldn't be able to get new toys, right? But I do hate this HR business sometimes. I should have dragged in my WA22 for the day.


 

 Anytime you need a good cup of coffee (and some nice music) drop by!
   
  Just check all the boxes that say fantastic and have a good day!


----------



## PanamaRed

Congradulations!
  Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello from Italy to all dear folks of Head-fi! I have been reading this (and all Woo forums) for a couple of months and now I decided to write something. First of all sorry for my poor English. I have bought from Jack a Wa22 last December: it is true that shipping and customs are expensive but Euro was strong (9 months ago!) and also I have read a very favourable review (on 6moons) about the combination of Wa22 with Senn HD-800 so I made the big step and now I am a proud Woo owner! I am an old fashioned music lover: no ripping, no streaming, no pc, no ipod, only CD's. I have got over 3500,00 CD's (all originals, no copy!) and this list is growing monthly. I love classical, jazz, rock (especially classic rock), folk, blues, celtic music, brasilian music, a little of pop (old singers like Frank, Dean, Sammy Davis, etc.) so frequently I don't understand at all your post about ripping music etc but I read them always with interest. One question for all of you: are you certain that the best SQ nowadays is from high resolution ripped music played through a pc/Dac/preamp/can (or speakers?). I have just bought the incredible (especially for the price!) Naim 555 and, after only playing it for 5 days I must say that my HD-800 and my Wa22 (currently as tubes I have WE421a, Tung Sol Black Glass round plates and a Sophia Princess 274 mesh) are incredible, wonderful, perfect. The best headphone and preampli in the world! Warm analogue sound, treble, midrange and bass perfect (on Hd 800!) so for me source is the most important thing in an High-End system because permits to obtain the best from all the other components. What do you think about it?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Skylab,
> 
> Just thought of something else.  What about when we are using vinyl into our WA22's.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Why is having vinyl as a source relevant?  A phono preamp provides a line level signal output just like a CD player or DAC does.  And it has gain, yes, but no volume control.  The issue is that the volume pot itself introduces noise.  If you use the preamp just for source switching, and you feed a FIXED level output (like tape outs) to the WA22, and just use its volume control, the overwhelming odds are you will get better sound.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Why is having vinyl as a source relevant?  A phono preamp provides a line level signal output just like a CD player or DAC does.  And it has gain, yes, but no volume control.  The issue is that the volume pot itself introduces noise.  If you use the preamp just for source switching, and you feed a FIXED level output (like tape outs) to the WA22, and just use its volume control, the overwhelming odds are you will get better sound.


 

 I've been thinking about this all night.  The thing is that Mike has a W4S DAC-2 and it has a digital pre amp function which can be fixed or variable and is menu driven, no physical volume pot..  I keep mine at fixed level out to my amp but Mike and others have reported that W4S is saying the optimal level for output (which is the numerical value of 65 on the DAC-2) is somewhere around 60 in the variable output.  At least that what I think was written in this thread a while back.  I have been meaning to contact W4S about this because I don't understand why the fixed level out isn't optimal.     I'm also imagining that Mikes W4S preamp volume has a fixed and a variable out that is not controlled by a physical volume pot but by digital means controlled through the preamps menu. 
   
  Is this true Mike?   I have no experience with the W4S pre amp.   It looks like the world may slowly moving away from physical real estate  when it comes to volume control and into the digital realm.   I'm not so sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Why is having vinyl as a source relevant?  A phono preamp provides a line level signal output just like a CD player or DAC does.  And it has gain, yes, but no volume control.  The issue is that the volume pot itself introduces noise.  If you use the preamp just for source switching, and you feed a FIXED level output (like tape outs) to the WA22, and just use its volume control, the overwhelming odds are you will get better sound.


 

 The GCPH balanced phono stage has a volume control. No was around it unfortunately.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Do you remember at which record store you bought the Zappa record?
> 
> I came across _Record Friend_ strolling down this street the day before I left in Dec. 2010:


 

 That could have been it, like I said it was over 20 years ago. I believe that it was somewhere in the neighborhood of the Bulldog Cafe. Boy did that place start a trend


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello from Italy to all dear folks of Head-fi! I have been reading this (and all Woo forums) for a couple of months and now I decided to write something. First of all sorry for my poor English. I have bought from Jack a Wa22 last December: it is true that shipping and customs are expensive but Euro was strong (9 months ago!) and also I have read a very favourable review (on 6moons) about the combination of Wa22 with Senn HD-800 so I made the big step and now I am a proud Woo owner! I am an old fashioned music lover: no ripping, no streaming, no pc, no ipod, only CD's. I have got over 3500,00 CD's (all originals, no copy!) and this list is growing monthly. I love classical, jazz, rock (especially classic rock), folk, blues, celtic music, brasilian music, a little of pop (old singers like Frank, Dean, Sammy Davis, etc.) so frequently I don't understand at all your post about ripping music etc but I read them always with interest. One question for all of you: are you certain that the best SQ nowadays is from high resolution ripped music played through a pc/Dac/preamp/can (or speakers?). I have just bought the incredible (especially for the price!) Naim 555 and, after only playing it for 5 days I must say that my HD-800 and my Wa22 (currently as tubes I have WE421a, Tung Sol Black Glass round plates and a Sophia Princess 274 mesh) are incredible, wonderful, perfect. The best headphone and preampli in the world! Warm analogue sound, treble, midrange and bass perfect (on Hd 800!) so for me source is the most important thing in an High-End system because permits to obtain the best from all the other components. What do you think about it?


 

 Welcome to the WA22 > HD800 club *LUMAZ*!
   
  I would think that your NAIM CD player would leave most computer setups in the dust. But you have a similar, which is to say highly varied taste in music like many of us. One great thing about having your entire collection on your hard drive is that it is at your fingertips, with total control of how you listen. You can play just by artist, genre, or by album, make a custom playlist, etc., you really have total control of all of your library at once.
   
  Sometimes I just take my entire collection of roughly 10,500 total songs and let it play at random. It's very unlikely that I will ever hear the same artist twice in a single listening session that way. You can play albums randomly as well, but when you go by song the best part besides the variety is, well the randomness. Here is a sample:
   
  Paul Simon > Phillip Glass > Bush > Cowboy Junkies > Robert Plant + Alison Krauss > Larry Carlton > Talking Heads > Jimmy Buffet > Beatles > Pink Floyd > Norah Jones > Santana > Yes > Ziggy Marley > Del McCoury > Joe Jackson > Bob Dylan > Cracker > Sinead O'Connor > Natalie Cole > Basia > Dixie Chicks > U2 > Robert Cray > Ottmar Leibert > Yardbirds > KD Lang > Black Sabbath > Grateful Dead > Miles Davis > Howlin' Wolf > Rickie Lee Jones > Billie Holiday > David Bowie > Prokofiev > Micheal Hedges > Nirvana > Ennio Moricone > Frank Zappa > Warren Zevon > Hole > Mazzy Star > X > Micky Hart > Led Zepplin > Beck > Ben Harper > Roger Waters > Dommerus Group > Les Claypool > Sheryl Crow > Pink Floyd > Muddy Waters > Bruce Springsteen > Nirvana > Willie Nelson > Bela Fleck > Beethoven > Robin Trower > Gov't Mule > Van Morrison > Steely Dan > Enrico Caruso > Emerson, Lake and Palmer > Django Reinhardt > Neil Young > Bobby Mc Ferrin > Dr John > Supertramp > Steve Miller > Al Green > Taj Mahal > Mark Knopfler > Natalie Merchant > Phish > Leftover Salmon > etc...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Why is having vinyl as a source relevant?  A phono preamp provides a line level signal output just like a CD player or DAC does.  And it has gain, yes, but no volume control.  The issue is that the volume pot itself introduces noise.  If you use the preamp just for source switching, and you feed a FIXED level output (like tape outs) to the WA22, and just use its volume control, the overwhelming odds are you will get better sound.


 

 Ok, got it.  I don't need volume control out of the phonostage because it's a line level out and the volume control on the WA22 can handle the level.
   
  I do have regular amplifiers and speakers in the mix too so I'll need the preamp for that.
   
  Will test to see what the sonic consequences are if any of putting a preamp between my DAC and WA22.
   
  The W4S preamp is passive up to a certain level and then it is active.  I'll post my impressions.
   
  Thanks, Skylab.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been thinking about this all night.  The thing is that Mike has a W4S DAC-2 and it has a digital pre amp function which can be fixed or variable and is menu driven, no physical volume pot..  I keep mine at fixed level out to my amp but Mike and others have reported that W4S is saying the optimal level for output (which is the numerical value of 65 on the DAC-2) is somewhere around 60 in the variable output.  At least that what I think was written in this thread a while back.  I have been meaning to contact W4S about this because I don't understand why the fixed level out isn't optimal.     I'm also imagining that Mikes W4S preamp volume has a fixed and a variable out that is not controlled by a physical volume pot but by digital means controlled through the preamps menu.
> 
> Is this true Mike?   I have no experience with the W4S pre amp.   It looks like the world may slowly moving away from physical real estate  when it comes to volume control and into the digital realm.   I'm not so sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.


 

 WA,  here is the skinny from W4S
   

 In the DAC-2, Fixed or variable have no sonic consequences in and of itself; either one is just as good as the other.
 If your minimum level is set to 0, the best output is 60 (on a scale of 0 to 70) according to Clint who says they measured this in the shop.
 Their theory is that you set the DAC at it's best output, and then control the volume through the preamp which is supposed to have a very good volume control pot and is passive from 0 to 63 on a scale of 80.  At 64 and above, the preamp is active.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Welcome to the WA22 > HD800 club LUMAZ!
> 
> I would think that your source would leave most computer setups in the dust. But as you have similar, which is to say highly varied taste in music like many of us. One great thing about having your entire collection on your hard drive is that it is at your fingertips, with total control of how you listen. You can play just by genre, or by album, make a custom playlist, etc., you really have total control of all of your library.
> 
> ...


 

 X2 on random.


----------



## grokit

I tend to use total random play like that the most when I my mood is good, or if I am excited to hear a new tweak or piece of gear flex its muscles. If I am in a funk, I may play an entire collection of a single artist that I am quite familiar with, but still randomly by song. I was doing this with the Cowboy Junkies a while back. They are very musically satisfying, yet have a bluesy feel to their music that works well for me when I am in the "mood".


----------



## Silent One

(Silent One wakes just in time for lunch and to ponder... CD: The Player & Format)
   
  Hi-rez music, Computers, Music Servers and DACs aren't for everyone. And CD's still play a prominent role in many of our lives. Gonna listen to a few from the library after midnight myself!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That said, today we have access to Studio Masters. This was not a misprint, _today we have access to Studio Masters_. A few years back, many of the studios moved to archive their entire Vaults to 24/96kHz PCM files. Some in DSD. And in this era, many studios record in DSD, DXD, PCM 88.2 kHz and up. 
   
  For me to turn my back on Studio Masters for Red Book files, what would be my motivation? To shoe-horn the master file down into Red Book standard suggests something is getting left on the cutting room floor. Also, the best DAC/Music Server combo will best the finest CD Transport today at a lower cost. It was the CD Transport in fact that gave birth to the DAC some 30 years ago when it was observed higher fidelity could be had if the DAC were lying outside the box (Champ vs. Contender?). Today, with greater understanding of Jitter and EMI ect the gap is closer/closed for only the finest CD Players.
   
  This isn't to say that the Naim's and Marantz's cannot deliver World-class playback. But it's the CD standard... it's still Red Book (16/44.1 kHz)! Bit depth is more important than sample rate. Red Book simply leaves behind too much potential in the studio. What I do know for sure is that the OP certainly took a fine path to satisfy his/her needs. Behind this post is simply my desire for another point of view on Red Book, Computer Audio and High Resolution files.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I go USB to my DAC-2 but the next upgrade I make to the system is going to be a Blue Heaven USB 2.0 cable.


 
  report back lol, I am using some wireworld usb i think... i got a deal on trade forum.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> report back lol, I am using some wireworld usb i think... i got a deal on trade forum.


 

 Ultraviolet, Starlight or Silver Starlight?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> WA,  here is the skinny from W4S
> 
> 
> In the DAC-2, Fixed or variable have no sonic consequences in and of itself; either one is just as good as the other.
> ...


 

 I'm going to have to give Clint a call.  My DAC-2 variable output on USB only goes up to 65 so I'm confused about the 70 number. Do you call him or email him?


----------



## Silent One

I've done both...
   
   
support@wyred4sound.com
www.wyred4sound.com
  Ph: (805) 466-9973   
  Fax: (805) 462-8962


----------



## Icenine2

I've got the Cardas USB for the DAC2.  Love it!!!


----------



## Silent One

I auditioned the WireWorld Silver Starlight USB cable - beautiful sound. Currently have the WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax - also, beautiful sound.


----------



## PanamaRed

Furutech GT2. No complaints at all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Furutech GT2. No complaints at all.


 

 Formerly had the Furutech GT2 - a fine, fine cable.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm going to have to give Clint a call.  My DAC-2 variable output on USB only goes up to 65 so I'm confused about the 70 number. Do you call him or email him?


 

 Your USB output only goes up to 65 because your minimum output is set to 5.  If you set it to 0, then you'll be able to go up to 70.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Your USB output only goes up to 65 because your minimum output is set to 5.  If you set it to 0, then you'll be able to go up to 70.


 

 At least it goes past 11.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ultraviolet, Starlight or Silver Starlight?


 


  uh... it's 100 bucks, i don't know which one it is ...


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I auditioned the WireWorld Silver Starlight USB cable - beautiful sound. Currently have the WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax - also, beautiful sound.


 


  How long is ur digital coax? I thought there was a theory about the length of digital coax...


----------



## Icenine2

There are a few WA6SE's for sale-one black, one silver on FS Forums.  There's a 6 for sale too.  And a silver, maybe the same one her, 6SE on Audiogon.  The black SE looks to be a great deal w/an EML etc all included.  Heads up!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

All done editing.  Promise me you guys won't tl;dr when you see it, because it's reaaaaally long.  I got carried away.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I just need to take the picture and post it all.  Tomorrow hopefully, so long as nothing comes up.


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello SilentOne and thanks for your contribution to my question: naturally I am not against hi-rez music, ripping and so on. To buy a great cdp was my only choice because I don't want to sell my great CD's collection and I love to take the silver disk from his custody and to put in a machine! In the next years I will buy a music server (like Naim Hdx for example) to store all my collection: it is more convenient because sometimes, when I come back home from work and I have in mind to hearing a certain artist or CD's, I spend all of the evening to find where the h... I put that (or those) Cd's! Some years ago I began to buy a lot of SACD and DVD-A (I have also a Marantz universal player) but the only DVD-A that I really like (I am talking about SQ) was Eagles's "Hotel California". A lot of SACD's are not worth it in terms of SQ (I am thinking to Pink Floyd's DSOTM for example). One of these evenings I will try some comparison between SACD layer (played on my old Marantz) and CD layer (played on my new Naim) and I will let you know my impressions. One great quality about Naim 555 it is that all CD's plays wonderful on it: yesterday evening I put some of my older CD's (Jefferson Airplane' Crown of Creation, Ella sings w. Basie, Blood Sweat & Tears's Greatest Hits, Nat Adderley's Work Song) all published in the second half of the 80's. Well they are not perfect now but surely they play like ever before! Warm, analogue sound, 3D spatial image, tight bass, sparkling highs, wonderful midrange (all with the incredible HD-800 soundstage) and a great musically that sometimes I was listening simply to the beauty of the sound and not to the song! All this, today (I am positive that tomorrow or after tomorrow will be reality) is it really possible from a Dac/music server combo?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello SilentOne and thanks for your contribution to my question: naturally I am not against hi-rez music, ripping and so on. To buy a great cdp was my only choice because I don't want to sell my great CD's collection and I love to take the silver disk from his custody and to put in a machine! In the next years I will buy a music server (like Naim Hdx for example) to store all my collection: it is more convenient because sometimes, when I come back home from work and I have in mind to hearing a certain artist or CD's, I spend all of the evening to find where the h... I put that (or those) Cd's! Some years ago I began to buy a lot of SACD and DVD-A (I have also a Marantz universal player) but the only DVD-A that I really like (I am talking about SQ) was Eagles's "Hotel California". A lot of SACD's are not worth it in terms of SQ (I am thinking to Pink Floyd's DSOTM for example). One of these evenings I will try some comparison between SACD layer (played on my old Marantz) and CD layer (played on my new Naim) and I will let you know my impressions. One great quality about Naim 555 it is that all CD's plays wonderful on it: yesterday evening I put some of my older CD's (Jefferson Airplane' Crown of Creation, Ella sings w. Basie, Blood Sweat & Tears's Greatest Hits, Nat Adderley's Work Song) all published in the second half of the 80's. Well they are not perfect now but surely they play like ever before! Warm, analogue sound, 3D spatial image, tight bass, sparkling highs, wonderful midrange (all with the incredible HD-800 soundstage) and a great musically that sometimes I was listening simply to the beauty of the sound and not to the song! All this, today (I am positive that tomorrow or after tomorrow will be reality) is it really possible from a Dac/music server combo?


 


 Hi LUMAZ, welcome aboard.  I couldn't agree with you more about Pink Floyd's DSOTM SACD. I was very disappointed with the SQ on this one.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: (original posted by *Clayton SF* 

)
   Hello from San Francisco and welcome to the forum, LUMAZ. Your English is, quite frankly, impeccable. 
  I do agree with what you wrote. I listen to original CDs and it is usually because I don't see me spending any more time ripping music--I'd rather just plop a CD into the player and listen. I do, however, have a DAC. I enjoy browsing through my CD collection (and vinyl as well) looking for the perfect CD for the moment and just listening to it in its entirety. I feel in that way it connects me to what the artist had intended to convey in their music. Like the Beatles White LP--I can't imagine listening to that on random; then again, to each his/her own, yes? 
  Your WA22 is using very nice tubes!
   
  Hello Clayton and thanks for your welcome! I am wrong or you are, like me, a great Beatles's fan? If today I adore music it is because, when I was sixteen, I began to listen to the Fab Four and not anynore to the bad music from Italian radios! What kind of tubes are you using on your Wa22? I have read that EML 5U4G mesh it is better than my Sophia Princess, but in these first days with my new Naim 555 all music seems perfect to me and I don't really know if the I could hear the difference changing from Sophia to EML.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello SilentOne and thanks for your contribution to my question: naturally I am not against hi-rez music, ripping and so on. To buy a great cdp was my only choice because I don't want to sell my great CD's collection and I love to take the silver disk from his custody and to put in a machine! In the next years I will buy a music server (like Naim Hdx for example) to store all my collection: it is more convenient because sometimes, when I come back home from work and I have in mind to hearing a certain artist or CD's, I spend all of the evening to find where the h... I put that (or those) Cd's! Some years ago I began to buy a lot of SACD and DVD-A (I have also a Marantz universal player) but the only DVD-A that I really like (I am talking about SQ) was Eagles's "Hotel California". A lot of SACD's are not worth it in terms of SQ (I am thinking to Pink Floyd's DSOTM for example). One of these evenings I will try some comparison between SACD layer (played on my old Marantz) and CD layer (played on my new Naim) and I will let you know my impressions. One great quality about Naim 555 it is that all CD's plays wonderful on it: yesterday evening I put some of my older CD's (_*Jefferson Airplane' Crown of Creation*_, Ella sings w. Basie, Blood Sweat & Tears's Greatest Hits, Nat Adderley's Work Song) all published in the second half of the 80's. Well they are not perfect now but surely they play like ever before! Warm, analogue sound, 3D spatial image, tight bass, sparkling highs, wonderful midrange (all with the incredible HD-800 soundstage) and a great musically that sometimes I was listening simply to the beauty of the sound and not to the song! All this, today (I am positive that tomorrow or after tomorrow will be reality) is it really possible from a Dac/music server combo?


 

 JA CoC. I have that CD. I've forgotten about it. Perhaps if I had had a music server dishing me songs at random that CD could have been reintroduced back into "my mind
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




." Another reason to have a music server playing music at random.
   
  SilenOne: I returned the new Mac mini. I didn't know what to do with software and all and got lazy so threw on more CDs from its jewel box and returned it to the Apple Store located 5 blocks from me. Apple Store SF took back the mini with no questions asked. I think they dropped the restocking fee in January. Do you have a primer for a Mac mini server if the bug should bite me again? Or any server for that matter. Thanks. You and Mike can drop on over this weekend if you want--or just you or just Mike. Bring a chair. j/k.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> uh... it's 100 bucks, i don't know which one it is ...


 

 Starlight...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Maybe many here in the Woo area are not into this debate any longer but I found this Head-Fi post interesting to say the least. It is here if you have not read it.
   
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/415361/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote:
  Original posted by Golfnutz 
  (Hi LUMAZ, welcome aboard.  I couldn't agree with you more about Pink Floyd's DSOTM SACD. I was very disappointed with the SQ on this one)
   
  Hi Golfnutz and thanks! As you know in september EMI will publish (for the nt time) remastered (and expensive!) Pink Floyd CD's. TDSOM in particular will also have a complete live performance. Probably I will buy a copy but I would like to know in advance if it is worthy. I hope that some friends of Head-Fi will get a copy before me!.
  Also I see that you are a Cardas interconnect cable. Do you like it? Until two months ago all of my cables were Nordost cables (Valhalla and Brahma power cords, Tyr interconnects) but after my new retailer made me hear the German born Klimo cables, I sold (for 1/3 of their price!) all my Nordost cables and replaced with Klimo cables. It is incredible how Nordost cables are so expensive and so bad playing! I don't know how people keep on buying them!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> How long is ur digital coax? I thought there was a theory about the length of digital coax...


 

 1 meter > Digital Interconnects; Analogue Interconnects; USB; Power Conditioning cords. Why are they all so short? Simple, it's what I could afford, no theories. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Yes, there is a theory about optimum length for digital cables. I first heard this from an interview a few years ago with Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio. Which was later countered by Dan Lavry of Lavry Engineering - both highly respected engineers. Further, each point of view has several others in their respective camps. 
   
  We're in a very subjective hobby, so none of this surprises. The theory has to do with Rise Times, Reflections & Jitter. Steve found through research that minimum length for a true 75 ohm digital cable to 1.5 M - 2.0 M. Dan suggests that this isn't so and the problem is with much longer cables, not shorter cables. Though not ridiculously short.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello Clayton and thanks for your welcome! I am wrong or you are, like me, a great Beatles's fan? If today I adore music it is because, when I was sixteen, I began to listen to the Fab Four and not anynore to the bad music from Italian radios! What kind of tubes are you using on your Wa22? I have read that EML 5U4G mesh it is better than my Sophia Princess, but in these first days with my new Naim 555 all music seems perfect to me and I don't really know if the I could hear the difference changing from Sophia to EML.


 
  Oh yes. The fab 4. I guess we're about the same age. I have the original White Album from when I was in high school along with Sgt Pepper's which is in mono and in pretty poor condition. In fact it still has speckles of white paint when it was spinning on a cheap record player while we painted the walls of our high school classroom.
   
  When I was a teenager in Hawaii the rock groups used to either end their American tours in Hawaii or start their European tours in Hawaii (Hawaii -> Japan -> European continent). I got to see the Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Led Zeppelin (the second year they came to Hawaii--the first time I was too young and they wouldn't let me into the auditorium), and a whole slew of other artists. I think I saw Jimi Hendrix about 5 times (he'd play for free the next day in a park or volcano). One evening just as he was about to play a concert he got on stage, tuned his guitar, did a sound check for about 10 minutes, apologized to the audience and announced that the concert was off until the next night because the sound was not to his liking. The audience left very peacefully (they wouldn't do that now). He returned the next night and gave a spectacular performance. Then he gave a free concert the next day as a thank you for understanding.
   
  Ah, the 60s.
   
  My WA22 is using stock GE 6AS7, CBS 6SN7 clear tops (made by RCA, so I've been told) and my favorite rectifier, the CV1863 / 5Z4G (pic1 pic2 pic3) made in England. I do own the EML 5U4G mesh though, and enjoy it very much but since I've come across a few CV1863 I've been using those instead.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello SilentOne and thanks for your contribution to my question: naturally I am not against hi-rez music, ripping and so on. To buy a great cdp was my only choice because I don't want to sell my great CD's collection and I love to take the silver disk from his custody and to put in a machine! In the next years I will buy a music server (like Naim Hdx for example) to store all my collection: it is more convenient because sometimes, when I come back home from work and I have in mind to hearing a certain artist or CD's, I spend all of the evening to find where the h... I put that (or those) Cd's! Some years ago I began to buy a lot of SACD and DVD-A (I have also a Marantz universal player) but the only DVD-A that I really like (I am talking about SQ) was Eagles's "Hotel California". A lot of SACD's are not worth it in terms of SQ (I am thinking to Pink Floyd's DSOTM for example). One of these evenings I will try some comparison between SACD layer (played on my old Marantz) and CD layer (played on my new Naim) and I will let you know my impressions. One great quality about Naim 555 it is that all CD's plays wonderful on it: yesterday evening I put some of my older CD's (Jefferson Airplane' Crown of Creation, Ella sings w. Basie, Blood Sweat & Tears's Greatest Hits, Nat Adderley's Work Song) all published in the second half of the 80's. Well they are not perfect now but surely they play like ever before! Warm, analogue sound, 3D spatial image, tight bass, sparkling highs, wonderful midrange (all with the incredible HD-800 soundstage) and a great musically that sometimes I was listening simply to the beauty of the sound and not to the song! All this, today (I am positive that tomorrow or after tomorrow will be reality) is it really possible from a Dac/music server combo?


 

 To answer your last question first: Yes. But more importantly, a formal "Welcome to Woo Audio Owner Unite." Though I'd like to be there (Italy), I can tell all the way from California that your system is heavenly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I will also be quick to point out that you can find good and bad recordings in all formats. And sometimes one's gear can be forgiving toward a recording than other gear. This makes comparison tricky. In each and every one of our systems, everything can affect the sound of our systems (fact). 
   
  In your case, you're further along than some because you found something that works for you. I'd love to don your headphones and listen to Ella's Decca recording of "How High The Moon?"


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: (original posted by Clayton SF )
  (My WA22 is using stock GE 6AS7, CBS 6SN7 clear tops (made by RCA, so I've been told) and my favorite rectifier, the CV1863 / 5Z4G (pic1 pic2 pic3) made in England. I do own the EML 5U4G mesh though, and enjoy it very much but since I've come across a few CV1863 I've been using those instead.)
   
  To tell the truth I guess I am a little bit younger than you (I was born in the middle of the 60's). My town, Lucca (in Tuscany near Florence and Pisa) is small but every summer we have a great festival and in these years I have seen Eagles, Van Morrison, Peter Gabriel, Burt Bacharach, Carlos Santana, Eric Clapton, Roger Waters (w. Nick Mason) and some others. The festival it is 10 minutes away from my home so I always go to the concerts with my bike!
  So you think that Cv 1863 is better than EML?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: (original posted by Clayton SF )
> (My WA22 is using stock GE 6AS7, CBS 6SN7 clear tops (made by RCA, so I've been told) and my favorite rectifier, the CV1863 / 5Z4G (pic1 pic2 pic3) made in England. I do own the EML 5U4G mesh though, and enjoy it very much but since I've come across a few CV1863 I've been using those instead.)
> 
> To tell the truth I guess I am a little bit younger than you (I was born in the middle of the 60's). My town, Lucca (in Tuscany near Florence and Pisa) is small but every summer we have a great festival and in these years I have seen Eagles, Van Morrison, Peter Gabriel, Burt Bacharach, Carlos Santana, Eric Clapton, Roger Waters (w. Nick Mason) and some others. The festival it is 10 minutes away from my home so I always go to the concerts with my bike!
> So you think that Cv 1863 is better than EML?


 
  Ah yes. I was born in the middle of the 50s. For my taste I prefer the CV1863. It has a slightly warmer sound and then there's that nostalgic aspect of using a tube manufactured in the 40s. The EML is very good with classical music and the CV is great for all-around music but I don't roll between the two anymore--I stay with the CV; at least with the WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> JA CoC. I have that CD. I've forgotten about it. Perhaps if I had had a music server dishing me songs at random that CD could have been reintroduced back into "my mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great! I'll definitely consider that this weekend. Though, it's fast approaching sunrise and I just crawled in from a farewell visit that went final at Travis AFB in the wee hours of the morning here. I was trying to leave at 1900 hours so I could sneak by mikemalter's for a listen after his dinner - this would have saved me a trip (did I mention gas, too?). I told him what a great host & head-fier you are - he wants to meet you!
   
  Apple's computers and iDevices are hot! - your mini will not stay in stock beyond a hot minute. _This is especially true in "The City that knows how!"_ (S.F.) And yes, there's basic primers out there for your pizza throwing mini server.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Curiously, does Sat/Sun work best for you? mikemalter will be logging in shortly and can see what works for him as well.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: Original posted by Clayton SF 
   
  Ah yes. I was born in the middle of the 50s. For my taste I prefer the CV1863. It has a slightly warmer sound and then there's that nostalgic aspect of using a tube manufactured in the 40s. The EML is very good with classical music and the CV is great for all-around music but I don't roll between the two anymore--I stay with the CV.
   
  Well my driver tubes are Tung Sol BGRP (manufactured in 1942!) and they give a sound very warm, so for my combo maybe it is better to put a EML than a CV, otherwise I could get a sound too creamy (add to this that Naim sound it is a little too "velvety" sometimes). Maybe I ought to ask to Skylab since he has got a huge tubes collection!
  Thanks Clayton I love this forum because you all are very nice (and competent!) people.
  It is very nice to be here.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh yes. The fab 4. I guess we're about the same age. I have the original White Album from when I was in high school along with Sgt Pepper's which is in mono and in pretty poor condition. In fact it still has speckles of white paint when it was spinning on a cheap record player while we painted the walls of our high school classroom.
> 
> When I was a teenager in Hawaii the rock groups used to either end their American tours in Hawaii or start their European tours in Hawaii (Hawaii -> Japan -> European continent). I got to see the Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Led Zeppelin (the second year they came to Hawaii--the first time I was too young and they wouldn't let me into the auditorium), and a whole slew of other artists. I think I saw Jimi Hendrix about 5 times (he'd play for free the next day in a park or volcano). One evening just as he was about to play a concert he got on stage, tuned his guitar, did a sound check for about 10 minutes, apologized to the audience and announced that the concert was off until the next night because the sound was not to his liking. The audience left very peacefully (they wouldn't do that now). He returned the next night and gave a spectacular performance. Then he gave a free concert the next day as a thank you for understanding.
> 
> ...


 


  Did you ever have a chance to see Sly & The Family Stone? They sound so good on my Woo! This despite everything in the recording being panned really hard to the left/right, still a musical delight!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great! I'll definitely consider that this weekend. Though, it's fast approaching sunrise and I just crawled in from a farewell visit that went final at Travis AFB in the wee hours of the morning here. I was trying to leave at 1900 hours so I could sneak by mikemalter's for a listen after his dinner - this would have saved me a trip (did I mention gas, too?). I told him what a great host & head-fier you are - he wants to meet you!
> 
> Apple's computers and iDevices are hot! - your mini will not stay in stock beyond a hot minute. _This is especially true in "The City that knows how!"_ (S.F.) And yes, there's basic primers out there for your pizza throwing mini server.
> 
> ...


 
  Sat/Sun works. I'll warm up the amps now. Okay, maybe not.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sat/Sun works. I'll warm up the amps now. Okay, maybe not.


 


  Will you be returning from Europe with an 'Au pair' for your family of amps?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: Original posted by Clayton SF
> 
> Ah yes. I was born in the middle of the 50s. For my taste I prefer the CV1863. It has a slightly warmer sound and then there's that nostalgic aspect of using a tube manufactured in the 40s. The EML is very good with classical music and the CV is great for all-around music but I don't roll between the two anymore--I stay with the CV.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh YES. Skylab is the man. A tubemeister. He has a Smörgåsbord of tubes in his collection. He is also a veritable library of excellent audio information.


----------



## Silent One

The Sun Is Out :  :    :   :
   
  Time for bed! But it should be a very good week. I shipped my DAC-1 back to W4S, Monday. Will hook up the Woo to the EMU later tonight. And also yesterday, I checked out 30 CD's from the library to enhance my music appreciation, while my gear is in the shop.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Sun Is Out :  :    :   :
> 
> Time for bed! But it should be a very good week. I shipped my DAC-1 back to W4S, Monday. Will hook up the Woo to the EMU later tonight. And also yesterday, I checked out 30 CD's from the library to enhance my music appreciation, while my gear is in the shop.


 

 The fog is in. Have a great rest, you digital vampire. I've got classical on the turntable at the moment. 1964 RCA pressing of _*La création du monde*_, Op. 81a, Milhaud. BSO, Charles, Munch, cond.


----------



## grokit

I am finally listening to vinyl again out of my Woo, and giving the GCPH balanced phono stage a real workout for the first time. The Denon DL 103R low-output moving coil cartridge only has a .25 mV output level so the GCPH is being fully utilized as it barely gets it done on the highest gain setting, with just enough attenuation to spare using the adjustable gain cell for fine tuning.
   
  In the GCPH manual PS Audio does go to great lengths to say that the adjustable gain cell is definitely not the same thing as a volume attenuator if you're reading this MM.
   
  It took me a while to get everything set up right. I had to switch out the turntable, install the cartridge and re-wire a few things. I have the balanced XLRs from the GCPH feeding my modified WA22 (2 XLR inputs, no SE), and the single-ended output is going through a vintage grounded phono switch box so I can select either my speakers or my Mac's audio input for ripping the vinyl into iTunes at 192 kHz (hopefully). I haven't gotten to that part yet but I am all set with Audacity installed and ready to go. I might also download a demo of Pure Vinyl just to compare.
   
  I have had the cart for a while and the switch box forever but this is the first time I have used either piece of gear.
   
  This is my first experience with an MC cart, and the best my records have ever sounded. I'm currently listening to my favorite Miles Davis album, We Want Miles which is a double live album from the later part of his career. There is certainly no random play with vinyl!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am finally listening to vinyl again out of my Woo, and giving the GCPH balanced phono stage a real workout for the first time. The Denon DL 103R low-output moving coil cartridge only has a .25 mV output level so the GCPH is being fully utilized as it barely gets it done on the highest gain setting, with just enough attenuation to spare using the adjustable gain cell for fine tuning.
> 
> In the GCPH manual PS Audio does go to great lengths to say that the adjustable gain cell is definitely not the same thing as a volume attenuator if you're reading this MM.
> 
> ...


 


  You're stirring the pot with interest! I'm trying very hard to lead-in with my BIG toe first, rest the foot some (buying an album or two), then e-a-s-e the rest of that foot into the vinyl pool so I don't get sucked in without having the ability to swim! (discretionary $$$)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The fog is in. Have a great rest, you digital vampire. I've got classical on the turntable at the moment. 1964 RCA pressing of _*La création du monde*_, Op. 81a, Milhaud. BSO, Charles, Munch, cond.


 

 A good rest, I shall. And yes, I enjoy listening to my samples of Dark Shadows opening/closing theme; Victoria Winter's opening voice over; definitely Angelique's wicked laughter!


----------



## Clayton SF

OMG! Zone 1 and 2 on my PS Power Plant Premier had died. Could someone tell me what might be the problem? The other zones work. I reset the PPP by unplugging it for 5 minutes and plugging it back into the wall socket. I could hear the tubes cooling down from across the room and when I looked up I had noticed that 2 of my amps were off. The Woo was not wooing.


----------



## Szadzik

clayton sf said:


> Darn, well I hope you get to enjoy some good theater, et al, in Vondelpark. Check out what happening there when you're there. Have fun!
> http://www.openluchttheater.nl/
> Music on Vinyl is in the Neteherlands, too: http://www.musiconvinyl.com/





Just cam back from Vondelpark and I have say it was great. I had a chance to test my new 70-200 f2.8 lens on the ducks in their ponds, excellent.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Just cam back from Vondelpark and I have say it was great. I had a chance to test my new 70-200 f2.8 lens on the ducks in their ponds, excellent.


 

 Excellent. You must post a link to your duck pictures taken with your new lens. What kind of camera? Those ducks are crazy in Amsterdam--not to mention the swans.


----------



## Icenine2

I did.  Stand sounds great!
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you ever have a chance to see Sly & The Family Stone? They sound so good on my Woo! This despite everything in the recording being panned really hard to the left/right, still a musical delight!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				SilentOne said:
			
		

> Did you ever have a chance to see Sly & The Family Stone? They sound so good on my Woo! This despite everything in the recording being panned really hard to the left/right, still a musical delight!


 
    
  Quote:


icenine2 said:


> I did.  Stand sounds great!


 
   
  No. Shucks. But I also saw, Norman Greenbaum (who? Spirit in the Sky) he opened for the Doors. Crazy World of Arthur Brown (Fire), Blue Cheer, Spirit, Peter, Paul & Mary, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Led Zeppelin, Yvonne Elliman (she opened for Led Zeppelin!), Johnny Crawford, Three Dog Night, Lee Michaels, Rolling Stones (1972), Guess Who. That's all I can think of. Oh, Linda Rondstadt, Lucifer with Randy Holden, Santana, Fleetwood Mac (1977).  I think that's it.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am finally listening to vinyl again out of my Woo, and giving the GCPH balanced phono stage a real workout for the first time. The Denon DL 103R low-output moving coil cartridge only has a .25 mV output level so the GCPH is being fully utilized as it barely gets it done on the highest gain setting, with just enough attenuation to spare using the adjustable gain cell for fine tuning.
> 
> In the GCPH manual PS Audio does go to great lengths to say that the adjustable gain cell is definitely not the same thing as a volume attenuator if you're reading this MM.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the posting Grokit.  There is a used Cullen modded GCPH on Audiogon.  I have been thinking about it and wanting to bring vinyl back into the mix.
   
  It's also my understanding that MC carts generally sound better than MM, but are a little more complicated to use.


----------



## Clayton SF

Mike: I am completing my Self-Assessment Form. I think I'm going to have to buy something to quell this angst.
  Also, my PPP is half dead! PS Audio will be contacted!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike: I am completing my Self-Assessment Form. I think I'm going to have to buy something to quell this angst.
> Also, my PPP is half dead! PS Audio will be contacted!


 

 Great news!  I am sure you gave your self well deserved high marks.
   
  If you can swing the P10 I'd do it.  I have the P5 and while I have only ever gotten up to 50% capacity, Paul McGowan says the P10 sounds better because it has more headroom.  I have not heard anyone compare the 5 with the 10 so I don't know.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> If you can swing the P10 I'd do it.  I have the P5 and while I have only ever gotten up to 50% capacity, Paul McGowan says the P10 sounds better because it has more headroom.  I have not heard anyone compare the 5 with the 10 so I don't know.


 
  Did you ever have the PPP? Now that mine is dead I am wondering what my WA22 will sound like now. The PPP quit working this morning so I haven't had the chance to listen to any of my amps since the meltdown.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Did you ever have the PPP? Now that mine is dead I am wondering what my WA22 will sound like now. The PPP quit working this morning so I haven't had the chance to listen to any of my amps since the meltdown.


 

 Never had a PPP.  Started out with a P600 and when it died went to the P5.  Always loved with the P600 and now the P5 is doing for source equipment because it put out regenerated power.  The P600 could never support my Audio Research VT 100 even though it fit within its range.  The amp sounded very constrained and tight.  When I plugged it into the wall directly it opened up.
   
  When I got the P5, it could support my VT100 and in comparison tests, it sounded smoother when running off of the P5.  Have not tried comparing any other equipment on and off the P5.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote:
> Original posted by Golfnutz
> (Hi LUMAZ, welcome aboard.  I couldn't agree with you more about Pink Floyd's DSOTM SACD. I was very disappointed with the SQ on this one)
> 
> ...


 


 Yes LUMAZ, I like them, but I'm not much of a cable guy. Like you, I take the recommendation from a local Stereo Shop guy. I haven't compared them to many High End cables. I like them better then some XLR MIT's I have.
   
  Are you plugging your Naim CD555 directly into the WA22 (RCA to RCA)?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're stirring the pot with interest! I'm trying very hard to lead-in with my BIG toe first, rest the foot some (buying an album or two), then e-a-s-e the rest of that foot into the vinyl pool so I don't get sucked in without having the ability to swim! (discretionary $$$)


 
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Thanks for the posting Grokit.  There is a used Cullen modded GCPH on Audiogon.  I have been thinking about it and wanting to bring vinyl back into the mix.
> 
> It's also my understanding that MC carts generally sound better than MM, but are a little more complicated to use.


 
   
   
  I've been working on resurrecting my vinyl for a few years now. First I dug my old Luxman P-405 out of storage. I love the features of that deck but it has issues, being around 25 years old and it wasn't exactly high end to begin with. First I upgraded the Othofon OM10 Super MM cart to a poor man's OM40 Super with a knock-off stylus from LP Gear with mixed results, it was just OK. I then managed to scrounge up a used GCPH over a year ago to hear it through my WA22, it was an improvement but less than engaging. I really want a Denon DP-A100 deck but it's not cheap so out of the question for the foreseeable future, even when I saw it at a great price shortly after it was introduced.
   
  Then a while back I decided that I may never get the DP-A100 and found a great deal on a used DP-300F with a Ortofon 2M red and was using it straight into my HTR receiver. It has a better sonic design but not all of the features that the Luxman had. Finally I found a great deal on that DL-103R, so after procrastinating for a while I finally installed it on the DP-300F. The cart does outclass the deck but they work well together. The belt is upgraded, the built-in MM stage is bypassed in favor of the GCPH and I am loving it. If finances ever get better I would still love to get that DP-A100, I would put the 2M Red back on the 300F and put it back upstairs but who knows if that will ever happen.
   
  edit: The DP-A100 seems to have qualified at the very bottom of Forbe's "top of the line" turntables list.
   
  The DL-103R would be the perfect backup cart for the DL-A100 that comes with the TT of my (limited) dreams if I ever pick one up as they are basically the same technology. I guess what I am saying is that _I am finally satisfied, and I have gotten there relatively cheaply_. If you want to get into it on a budget there are some great deals out there on a DP300F as well as the DL-103R. They work well together and keep up with units far more expensive but you would also need a good phono stage. The GCPH sounds great and is pretty versatile but there plenty are less expensive and simpler options out there if you don't need the balanced outputs.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Also, my PPP is half dead! PS Audio will be contacted!


 


  Any fuses to look at?


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> This is my first experience with an MC cart...


 

 What were you using before?
   
  Ooops, nevermind Grokit, you've posted again before I got to see it.


----------



## Szadzik

clayton sf said:


> Excellent. You must post a link to your duck pictures taken with your new lens. What kind of camera? Those ducks are crazy in Amsterdam--not to mention the swans.




Will post a link when I get home and upload as I do not even have my laptop with me here. Nikon D90 and Tamron 70-200


----------



## WindyCityCy

I've had a similar issue where a couple of zones went out on a PSA Quintet.  PSA ended up shipping me a new power cartridge that took about 1 minute to replace.  Not sure if PPP uses a similar approach.  I do have a PPP but it is tucked away in my AV cabinet where I cant really get to it.  I also have a P10 ... it is a beast.  I'm using 15% of the max load as I type this.
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Did you ever have the PPP? Now that mine is dead I am wondering what my WA22 will sound like now. The PPP quit working this morning so I haven't had the chance to listen to any of my amps since the meltdown.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I've been working on resurrecting my vinyl for a few years now. First I dug my old Luxman P-405 out of storage. I love the features of that deck but it has issues, being around 25 years old and it wasn't exactly high end to begin with. First I upgraded the Othofon OM10 Super MM cart to a poor man's OM40 Super with a knock-off stylus from LP Gear with mixed results, it was just OK. I then managed to scrounge up a used GCPH over a year ago to hear it through my WA22, it was an improvement but less than engaging. I really want a Denon DP-A100 deck but it's not cheap so out of the question for the foreseeable future, even when I saw it at a great price shortly after it was introduced.
> 
> Then a while back I decided that I may never get the DP-A100 and found a great deal on a used DP-300F with a Ortofon 2M red and was using it straight into my HTR receiver. It has a better sonic design but not all of the features that the Luxman had. Finally I found a great deal on that DL-103R, so after procrastinating for a while I finally installed it on the DP-300F. The cart does outclass the deck but they work well together. The belt is upgraded, the built-in MM stage is bypassed in favor of the GCPH and I am loving it. If finances ever get better I would still love to get that DP-A100, I would put the 2M Red back on the 300F and put it back upstairs but who knows if that will ever happen.
> 
> ...


 

 Grokit,
   
  Sounds like you have a really sweet setup and are my inspiration for getting back into vinyl.  It is probably going to be about a month or two before I can move on a phono stage.  I have a really nice turntable, Clearaudio Statement with a Benz LP cartridge.  My phonostage is really in another preamp and not a seperate.  So, I guess I could throw that up, and then use the tape output into my W4S preamp which will send a balanced signal to my WA22.  I might try that since I already have everything I need.  What I really want is to get a nice used phonostage with balanced outputs and throw that in the mix, but that will be a few months out.  So, I suppose I could just use what I have for now and graduate later.  Maybe I'll do that.
   
  It's funny when you have an idea in your mind, but when you start writing it clairifyies and brings to action.  Time to dust off my Clearaudio!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I've been working on resurrecting my vinyl for a few years now. First I dug my old Luxman P-405 out of storage. I love the features of that deck but it has issues, being around 25 years old and it wasn't exactly high end to begin with. First I upgraded the Othofon OM10 Super MM cart to a poor man's OM40 Super with a knock-off stylus from LP Gear with mixed results, it was just OK. I then managed to scrounge up a used GCPH over a year ago to hear it through my WA22, it was an improvement but less than engaging. I really want a Denon DP-A100 deck but it's not cheap so out of the question for the foreseeable future, even when I saw it at a great price shortly after it was introduced.
> 
> Then a while back I decided that I may never get the DP-A100 and found a great deal on a used DP-300F with a Ortofon 2M red and was using it straight into my HTR receiver. It has a better sonic design but not all of the features that the Luxman had. Finally I found a great deal on that DL-103R, so after procrastinating for a while I finally installed it on the DP-300F. The cart does outclass the deck but they work well together. The belt is upgraded, the built-in MM stage is bypassed in favor of the GCPH and I am loving it. If finances ever get better I would still love to get that DP-A100, I would put the 2M Red back on the 300F and put it back upstairs but who knows if that will ever happen.
> 
> ...


 


  I find your path encouraging... thanks for bringing us along.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> Sounds like you have a really sweet setup and are my inspiration for getting back into vinyl.  It is probably going to be about a month or two before I can move on a phono stage.  I have a really nice turntable, Clearaudio Statement with a Benz LP cartridge.  My phonostage is really in another preamp and not a seperate.  So, I guess I could throw that up, and then use the tape output into my W4S preamp which will send a balanced signal to my WA22.  I might try that since I already have everything I need.  What I really want is to get a nice used phonostage with balanced outputs and throw that in the mix, but that will be a few months out.  So, I suppose I could just use what I have for now and graduate later.  Maybe I'll do that.
> 
> It's funny when you have an idea in your mind, but when you start writing it clairifyies and brings to action.  Time to dust off my Clearaudio!!!!!!!!


 


  I can't wait to hear your Clearaudio Statement make a statement. In this case, the guest may have to buy the host a drink!


----------



## grokit

Thanks for the encouragement guys. My next move, when I make the space, will be to unbox the 200 or so classical records that were given to me by my grandmother, who will be 100 years old this November!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the encouragement guys. My next move, when I make the space, will be to unbox the 200 or so classical records that were given to me by my grandmother, who will be 100 years old this November!


 

 The two events are indeed, _special..._


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Starlight...


 

 you experienced any difference on USB cables?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> you experienced any difference on USB cables?


 

 Yes, I have. I have also heard differences between digital & analogue interconnects used in my system as well. Not that you asked... _but what if you had?_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I should also add that in my system, I based the quality of USB cable on my system configuration. When setup (USB>DAC) I'd use the best cable I could afford (WireWorld Silver Startlight USB). Since using the Mhdt USBridge , I downgraded the USB cable because the bridge re-clocks the signal. Then turned around and used those premium dollars on a better digital coax cable (USB>Bridge>Coax>DAC) out of the bridge (WireWorld Silver Starlight coax).
   
  Are things now perfect? A resounding no! But I am improving...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the encouragement guys. My next move, when I make the space, will be to unbox the 200 or so classical records that were given to me by my grandmother, who will be 100 years old this November!


 

 Awesome!


----------



## mikemalter

Well, Grokit got me going on bringing my vinyl back to the table, but unfortunately, one channel of my turntable is not working and I have to take it in to the Clearaudio dealer.  Too bad.  But for one channel it does sound good.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, Grokit got me going on bringing my vinyl back to the table, but unfortunately, one channel of my turntable is not working and I have to take it in to the Clearaudio dealer.  Too bad.  But for one channel it does sound good.


 

 Just play mono records. Problem solved!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Just play mono records. Problem solved!


 
  LOL


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> Sounds like you have a really sweet setup and are my inspiration for getting back into vinyl.  It is probably going to be about a month or two before I can move on a phono stage.  I have a really nice turntable, *Clearaudio Statement with a Benz LP cartridge*.  My phonostage is really in another preamp and not a seperate.  So, I guess I could throw that up, and then use the tape output into my W4S preamp which will send a balanced signal to my WA22.  I might try that since I already have everything I need.  What I really want is to get a nice used phonostage with balanced outputs and throw that in the mix, but that will be a few months out.  So, I suppose I could just use what I have for now and graduate later.  Maybe I'll do that.
> 
> It's funny when you have an idea in your mind, but when you start writing it clairifyies and brings to action.  Time to dust off my Clearaudio!!!!!!!!


 

 Holy moly, I just looked those up, that *is* a nice rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !
   
_Really_ nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, Grokit got me going on bringing my vinyl back to the table, but unfortunately, one channel of my turntable is not working and I have to take it in to the Clearaudio dealer.  Too bad.  But for one channel it does sound good.


 
  I'm glad that I could serve as an inspiration, be sure to keep us posted


----------



## FlyingBear

FYI, I've been very impressed by PS Audio's repair shop. One of the P600 power units in my home theater blew up: it went "bang" and smoke came out of it, from which I deduced that it was broken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. When I unscrewed a lot of allen bolts, I found internal carnage:
   

   
  I shipped it, and another P600 that was acting flaky off to PS Audio after getting RMA numbers. The only hard part was lifting the 90 pound units. They charged me a very modest fixed fee of $250 per unit, and sent them back all fixed. The one that blew up appears to have been seriously reconstructed, with new circuit boards mounted across the old ones, with all new parts. Many of the capacitors were leaking in both units, and they came back with all new caps. Impressive.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike: I am completing my Self-Assessment Form. I think I'm going to have to buy something to quell this angst.
> Also, my PPP is half dead! PS Audio will be contacted!


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote (original posted by *Clayton SF* 

):
   
  (No. Shucks. But I also saw, Norman Greenbaum (who? Spirit in the Sky) he opened for the Doors. Crazy World of Arthur Brown (Fire), Blue Cheer, *Spirit,* Peter, Paul & Mary, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Led Zeppelin, Yvonne Elliman (she opened for Led Zeppelin!), Johnny Crawford, Three Dog Night, Lee Michaels, Rolling Stones (1972), Guess Who. That's all I can think of. Oh, Linda Rondstadt, Lucifer with Randy Holden, Santana, Fleetwood Mac (1977).  I think that's it.)
   
  Did you see Spirit? But the original formation with Jay Ferguson and John Locke? I adore them and I often play their four albums: for me they are one of the best band ever! Period. How were they in concert? Terrific as in studio recordings?


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: Original posted by SilentOne 
   
  (A good rest, I shall. And yes, I enjoy listening to my samples of Dark Shadows opening/closing theme; Victoria Winter's opening voice over; definitely Angelique's wicked laughter! ) 
   
  Hello Silent, are you a Dark Shadows's fan? In Italy we never aired but some years ago I have bought the first box set with Barnabas Collins. I like but I am frightened to buy all of them! Do you know how many box set there are in the market now?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: Original posted by SilentOne
> 
> (A good rest, I shall. And yes, I enjoy listening to my samples of Dark Shadows opening/closing theme; Victoria Winter's opening voice over; definitely Angelique's wicked laughter! )
> 
> Hello Silent, are you a Dark Shadows's fan? In Italy we never aired but some years ago I have bought the first box set with Barnabas Collins. I like but I am frightened to buy all of them! Do you know how many box set there are in the market now?


 
   
_Am I a fan? Does having an Angelique ring-tone on my mobile count?!_
   
  Oh man, LUMAZ, you got me reminiscing! Dark Shadows is my favorite soapie of all-time! Current fav is "Generations" (S.Africa). I started with the poor quality transfer VHS (Buying). Then, thanks to Netflix I just rent the DVDs - in this format the collections total 26.
   
  Barnabus made his debut deep into the first year. Ratings were low, the action was dull up until then. So, the DVD 26 collection box set doesn't waste camera time on this period and picks up pretty much when Barnabus makes his way in to the scene (if I recall correctly). There were 1,225 episodes total; a few less since the collections don't start from Day 1 like the video tapes did.
   
  Have you watched long? And how on Earth did you get exposed to the series? I last watched from 2003-2005, the entire series. May do it again in 2012. I actually admire all of the production gaffs from exposed wires to hanging microphones. As well as the actors flubbing/forgetting their lines because it lent to a genuine theatrical feel.
   
  You know, if you really think about it, a Woo WA22 would not have looked out of place if it were in the Drawing Room in their present time during the series before the Flashbacks.  Now that you've got me all worked up over DS, I may bring my portable drive next time I visit Clayton SF or mikemalter to play the opening & closing soundtrack on their WA22's.





   
  Since your a new member, a treat for you below:
   
  [size=x-small]__[/size]


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by
   
  (Yes LUMAZ, I like them, but I'm not much of a cable guy. Like you, I take the recommendation from a local Stereo Shop guy. I haven't compared them to many High End cables. I like them better then some XLR MIT's I have.
   Are you plugging your Naim CD555 directly into the WA22 (RCA to RCA)?)
   
  Well, my Naim 555 is plugged directly into the WA22 but not RCA to RCA but Mini-Din 5 Pin to XLR: since my retailer (he is a friend of mine so I have complete faith in him). told me that the output signal from Naim is balanced I ordered an hand-made cable from Klimo: it is an excellent cable that permits to obtain the best from the WA22 and from the Senn HD-800: my Senn has been recabled and now it has a balanced cable with two cables completely separated (one for the right channel and one for the left) terminated with two XLR Neutrik 3-Pin connectors. As stated in another post we really don't know if the output of WA22 is balanced but surely connect the headphone through the XLR connections is better than through the RCA 1/4 jack because (my retailer cut a cable with RCA connector to let me clearly see!) a XLR connector has a wider surface employed to make contact with the amplifier and so the connection is more stable and the signal flows smoothly and with lesser interferences from the outside. I hope I am made myself clear (in English that is!)


----------



## Silent One

WA22 ~
   
  If fed a balanced source, it offers 3-pin/4-pin balanced headphone out option...


----------



## LUMAZ

About Dark Shadows: to improve my English, since 1999 I have bought from Amazon, books, comic books (please don' t laugh, I am a great comic books fan and since in these months have been published the old Dark Shadows comic books maybe I will buy them!) and then DVD's so when some years ago I read about Dark Shadows (a cult series some reviewer wrote) for sheer curiosity I have bought the first box set: unfortunately it don't have English subtitles so sometimes I don't fully understand all the dialogues but I like the series but I can't buy 26 box sets, otherwise I ought to get out from the window half of my CD's collection!). Now also the first year has been published in DVD format..
  About WA22 balanced headphone output: My Naim has arrived only a week ago, so before his arrival I listened music from a Marantz universal player employing unbalanced inputs and from the headphone to the ampi the XLR connection: IMHO the sound was tighter and precise than before when I was employing my Senn recabled with a Cardas cable with 1/4 RCA jack.
  Thanks for the Dark Shadows intro, it is really wonderful!


----------



## LUMAZ

A question to all WA22 owners: any of you has a mod  WA22? I have read another old post where Seamaster talked about his unit before and after modification. I have seen on Jack's website that he offers an upgrade for WA 5 LE (with better caps, etc.) but not for WA22. My friend (and Naim seller) is against any modification of an unit whatsoever and so I really don't know if  to upgrade my WA22 (that now it receives his signal from a top cdp like Naim 555) would be a step up or not? What do you think about it?
  Thanks for the answers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> About Dark Shadows: to improve my English, since 1999 I have bought from Amazon, books, comic books (please don' t laugh, I am a great comic books fan and since in these months have been published the old Dark Shadows comic books maybe I will buy them!) and then DVD's so when some years ago I read about Dark Shadows (a cult series some reviewer wrote) for sheer curiosity I have bought the first box set: unfortunately it don't have English subtitles so sometimes I don't fully understand all the dialogues but I like the series but I can't buy 26 box sets, otherwise I ought to get out from the window half of my CD's collection!). Now also the first year has been published in DVD format..
> About WA22 balanced headphone output: My Naim has arrived only a week ago, so before his arrival I listened music from a Marantz universal player employing unbalanced inputs and from the headphone to the ampi the XLR connection: IMHO the sound was tighter and precise than before when I was employing my Senn recabled with a Cardas cable with 1/4 RCA jack.
> Thanks for the Dark Shadows intro, it is really wonderful!


 

 I admire and applaud your obtaining English media to learn. And to come inside this thread and share your audio journey and joys with us. And yes, a collection of 26 boxes can be expensive. Do you have a rental service like Netflix? Through them, I rented the entire series over a couple of years.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: original posted by
> 
> (Yes LUMAZ, I like them, but I'm not much of a cable guy. Like you, I take the recommendation from a local Stereo Shop guy. I haven't compared them to many High End cables. I like them better then some XLR MIT's I have.
> Are you plugging your Naim CD555 directly into the WA22 (RCA to RCA)?)
> ...


 

 As long as the source is balanced, then you're running your system optimally.  This should be pretty simple to test. If you connect RCA to RCA, the voltage should be 1/2 of the Mini-Din 5 Pin. You would then be required to turn up the volume to get to the same level as Mini-Din 5 to XLR input. Also, the SQ will be less via RCA. I've tested this in my system using a RCA to XLR adapters (BD player RCA  --> WA22 XLR). The differences are very noticeable.


----------



## Silent One

Music Appreciation Day/Night . :      : :
   
  I left the library Monday evening with 30 CD's. From Tuesday afternoon throughout the night until this morning saw two amps and a listening session stretch over an 18 hour period. While I was familiar with many of the artists, some still had selections I had not yet heard. And then there were discoveries from unknown artists that had me pleasantly surprised.
   
   
  Woo Audio WA 6 _Special Edition_
  Caress/ Volume moderate:
   
  "Cha Cha"   by Fufu-Ai   (Sound Of The World - Beyond The Horizon)
  "Jive Samba"   by Sarah Vaughn    (Viva Vaughn)
  "We've Got Silver At Six"   by Horace Silver    (The Hardbop Grandpop)
   
   
  Pioneer SX-650 Integrated Amp
  Attack/Volume up:
   
  "Back In The USSR"   by The Beatles    (White Album)
  "T-Bone Shuffle"   by Albert Collins, Robert Cray, Johnny Copeland    (Showdown)
  "Big Lovin' Woman"   by Shemekia Copeland     (Turn Up The Heat)
   
   
  Though I heard some 700 tracks, only a couple of highlights, one from each group listed above (hey, it' sunrise... I'm sleepy!) My biggest surprise of the night came from the Spanish group Fufu-Ai. I had known about them for a few years now but never got around to hearing them until last night and WOW!
   
  They're a mixed band from Barcelona with a French touch, singing lyrics in English, French and Spanish. Whose style ranges from pop, reggae, bossa, rock and punk. French singer Anouk's vocals are delivered in a seemingly easy and effortless manner. And with a sound that's alluring, soft and seductive. In the song "Cha Cha" her vocals were tailor-made for a vacuum tube amplifier, no doubt (Lush; sweet & engaging)!
   
  On the solid-state side of my highlights we have The Beatles. I'm not necessarily a fan and whether they recorded 500 tracks or 5,000 I can still count the number of tracks I enjoy of theirs on one hand. That said, "Back In The USSR" is among them... they kill it! In a nod to the soon departing "Set-2-Jet Clayton SF" I thought I'd play it a few times this morning. The synergy brought on by the Pioneer & D7000 gives this track an electrical charge that makes "Back In The USSR" at once listenable & danceable, it's that engaging!
   
  Because the track is so short, in a concession to my good hearing I turned it up! (Time for one more highlight? Ok.) Then there's Shemekia (19 year old daughter of famed Texas blues guitarist Johnny Copeland) singing "Big Lovin' Woman", the Pioneer handled that track like a Soldier at chow - focused, no dilly-dallying around!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Time to lay out... hope all my Woo mates get off to a great start this morning!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote (original posted by *Clayton SF*
> 
> ):
> 
> ...


 
  Yes. It was the original Spirit. Blue Cheer opened for Spirit in 1970. Spirit, with Jay Ferguson and John Locke, was absolutely incredible. Ed Cassidy's drumming was focused and drove the band with determination. I can still see him up there. It was at the Waikiki Shell.
   
  This is not the concert, it is just a picture of the Waikiki Shell.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> All done editing.  Promise me you guys won't tl;dr when you see it, because it's reaaaaally long.  I got carried away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. It was the original Spirit. Blue Cheer opened for Spirit in 1970. Spirit, with Jay Ferguson and John Locke, was absolutely incredible. Ed Cassidy's drumming was focused and drove the band with determination. I can still see him up there. It was at the Waikiki Shell.
> 
> This is not the concert, it is just a picture of the Waikiki Shell.


 

 I have a video of a Doobie Brothers concert taped in this venue.... It was really nice.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have a video of a Doobie Brothers concert taped in this venue.... It was really nice


 

 Just leave it to old-time acoustic-enhancing structures and placement. Like the Greeks with their amphitheaters. The days before electric amplification we depended on strategically placing structures, man-made and natural, to amplify sound. No need for high-end IC here!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Today at 5:54 am





> Pioneer SX-650 Integrated Amp


 

 Man you were up late again, I think that is 6:54 my time! Does that Pioneer drive the headphone port at full power?


----------



## mikemalter

Trip to the turntable doctor on Friday.  Maybe a shorted cable in my tondarm interconnect.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Trip to the turntable doctor on Friday.  Maybe a shorted cable in my tondarm interconnect.


 
   
  imo the shorter the cable the better. My WW interconnects and Toslink are .5M. My HDMI (1.3 compliant) for audio cable from my Oppo to my Realiser is 1M.
  
  And now for a shameless plug, I will be selling my WA6SE max with the blackgate's, stepped alternater, EML 274B Solid Plate (very rare) along with my 247B mesh plate Princess, and my rare RCA chrome domes along with a choice of one other brand of Drive/Power tubes. Shipping in to boxes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> imo the shorter the cable the better. My WW interconnects and Toslink are .5M. My HDMI (1.3 compliant) for audio cable from my Oppo to my Realiser is 1M.
> 
> And now for a shameless plug, I will be selling my WA6SE max with the blackgate's, stepped alternater, EML 274B Solid Plate (very rare) along with my 247B mesh plate Princess, and my rare RCA chrome domes along with a choice of one other brand of Drive/Power tubes. Shipping in to boxes.


 

 WA6SE (M spec) for sale...
   
  (I can hear Dick Enberg all the way from his estate in San Diego... _"Oh my!")  _I know you take really great care of your gear, sillysally. If only I was better positioned financially. Great that you and other members give this thread a heads-up first!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Man you were up late again, I think that is 6:54 my time! Does that Pioneer drive the headphone port at full power?


 

 Yeah, I could really use more sleep... there is a solution, two actually, but cannot yet afford either. My sessions start so late at night because the AC in the neighborhood (I'm not alone in this regard) is downright dirty! But right around 23:00 hours (or just before Midnight) it gets good. _Really good._ So, my options are to buy clean power like a conditioner/re-generator (PS Audio?) or one of the new battery powered options (which I really like).
   
  Just think, being able to have a quality listening session after dinner before sunset... (Silent One begins to daydream). The Pioneer and other big vintage amps don't really have (maybe a few?)  separate dedicated headphone amp sections. Rather, they'd slap a resistor on it, which translates into good raw power but tempered some. I'm fortunate in that my 22AWG balanced dual (separate from cup to XLR) cabled Denons excel with both amps.


----------



## mikemalter

Guys!  I got my r2 LCD-2 headphones today.  They are in the HHD800 league and the leap in sound quality is big compared to r1.  I got the universal cable that ALO makes and one of the extenders is the mini balanced for the Ray Samuels SR71-B headphone amplifier.  I must say that the paring with of the ALO with the SR71-B is really nice even during this pre breakin stage.
   
  Also, the people at ALO say that the LCD-2 headphones need very little breakin which is different from headphones with regular drivers.  It's the cable that is the issue, and that is what is being broken in.  This is did not know and thought I'd pass it along.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> imo the shorter the cable the better. My WW interconnects and Toslink are .5M. My HDMI (1.3 compliant) for audio cable from my Oppo to my Realiser is 1M.
> 
> And now for a shameless plug, I will be selling my WA6SE max with the blackgate's, stepped alternater, EML 274B Solid Plate (very rare) along with my 247B mesh plate Princess, and my rare RCA chrome domes along with a choice of one other brand of Drive/Power tubes. Shipping in to boxes.


 

 SS, the person who buys this from you will be very lucky because of the careful way you keep your gear.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah, I could really use more sleep... there is a solution, two actually, but cannot yet afford either. My sessions start so late at night because the AC in the neighborhood (I'm not alone in this regard) is downright dirty! But right around 23:00 hours (or just before Midnight) it gets good. _Really good._ So, my options are to buy clean power like a conditioner/re-generator (PS Audio?) or one of the new battery powered options (which I really like).
> 
> Just think, being able to have a quality listening session after dinner before sunset... (Silent One begins to daydream). The Pioneer and other big vintage amps don't really have (maybe a few?)  separate dedicated headphone amp sections. Rather, they'd slap a resistor on it, which translates into good raw power but tempered some. I'm fortunate in that my 22AWG balanced dual (separate from cup to XLR) cabled Denons excel with both amps.


 

 O dark 30.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> O dark 30.


 


   
  Since I'm basically On-call, working around the clock, it's so much easier on the eyes. Just got your really-really BIG News about the LCD2.r2's... exciting!!! If only you had 'em when I left Travis AFB yesterday...




   
  Post script:  When I return I'll be sure to avoid my portable drive debacle from last month!


----------



## MilesDavis2

Need help. I have of course asked several experience headfi people. Last resort is the appreciation thread. I have a Beyer DT770 600 ohm and between the woo3 and woo6, both the lower priced models in the tier, which one would be the best choice for the DT880. I am ready to pull the trigger and just thought I'd get a feedback from the experienced woo owners.  Thank you.


----------



## MilesDavis2

sorry error. It's a DT880 not 770. Sorry for the my mistake.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> Need help. I have of course asked several experience headfi people. Last resort is the appreciation thread. I have a Beyer DT770 600 ohm and between the woo3 and woo6, both the lower priced models in the tier, which one would be the best choice for the DT880. I am ready to pull the trigger and just thought I'd get a feedback from the experienced woo owners.  Thank you.


 


  Greetings Miles Davis2 - love the music preferences! I too, am big on Weather Report but have yet to hear any of Jaco's solo efforts (I will shortly). Hopefully you'll get a reply late night or tomorrow...


----------



## grokit

The WA6 has an impedance selector, I would try that one for a 600 ohm headphone. The WA3 has a preamp output though if that is important to you.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: Original posted by SilentOne 
   
  (On the solid-state side of my highlights we have The Beatles. I'm not necessarily a fan and whether they recorded 500 tracks or 5,000 I can still count the number of tracks I enjoy of theirs on one hand.)
   
  Hello Silent and thanks for your kind words (but you are always awake 24 hours a day?). I am sorry that you don't like The Beatles but I understand that every man has his musical taste. On a desert island I would surely take the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, the Who, Pink Floyd, Doors, Spirit, Duke Ellington, John Coltrane, Miles, Dizzy, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Brahms and another thousand artists!
  Do you know that Back in the USSR is one of three Beatles's songs where Paul plays also drums? Their producer (George Martin) has often said that in his opinion Paul was a better drummer that Ringo (One of the worst drummer in the rock field to tell the truth!). If you like Back in the USSR maybe you also will like Revolution, Helter Skelter, I've got a Feeling, Get Back? Nevertheless I also like Jaco and Weather Report! (but I think that Wayne made his best solos with Miles and in his solo Blue Note albums of the sixties).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: Original posted by SilentOne
> 
> (On the solid-state side of my highlights we have The Beatles. I'm not necessarily a fan and whether they recorded 500 tracks or 5,000 I can still count the number of tracks I enjoy of theirs on one hand.)
> 
> ...


 

 LUMAZ ~
   
  Thanks for giving me the opportunity to be a bit more clear. One thing (perhaps, two things...) I know for sure and that's there is a lot of Beatles fans around the world. And perhaps on head-fi as well. On my account of not being a fan - though true, I was actually expressing myself in a relaxed and playful manner to point out just how good I think the tracks by the group that I do like really are, considering...
   
  I think the Beatles are alright. Same with the Stones, can count the number tracks I like by them on one hand. But the ones that I can are outstanding! Or my cup of tea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is due perhaps, my not being big on Rock, growing up or present day. However, I now listen to more Rock and other genres in the spirit of growth. I exposed myself to other music outside my preferences in the same manner a food critic would do to become better at evaluating food.
   
  Not too many moons ago , I worked in Home Audio (retail), Car Audio (manufacturing) and until recently (7 yrs ago) I owned a small Motoring Accessories boutique in Beverly Hills. All three of these businesses exposed me to far more music than I was previously listening to... growth is a good thing. It really helped me out a lot working at Electronic Trade shows and relating to customers as well.
   
  Thanks LUMAZ, I didn't know the Paul drumming fact. "Revolution", "Helter Skelter", "I've Got A Feelin'", & "Get Back" don't do very much for me. However, "A Hard Day's Night", "Can't Buy Me Love", "I Wanna Hold Your Hand", "Ticket To Ride" & "Back In The USSR" is pretty much it for now. Best Stones tracks inside my listening room? "Sympathy For The Devil." Followed by "Brown Sugar", "Start Me Up", "Gimme Shelter" and "Angie." That's it for the hands, no need to use my toes (just kidding).
   
  Wayne took a lot of heat playing with WR over the years for not soloing more or being more assertive. He's a Buddhist; displayed a lot of grace, as there were some strong personalities involved. What's more, money & fame can create monsters out of artists. I think Wayne handled himself well,  like a Gentleman's musician. And on a deserted island I would strive for a wide variety too!
   
  Yesterday during my extended listening session, I did the entire run of previewing the 30 CD's using my solid-state amp. This is because I knew there would be several interruptions and that the session would last longer than 8 hours. I am careful not to 'Cycle' my Woo on & off unnecessarily. Once I got through it all, the last 6 to 7 hours were dedicated to playing only selected tracks on both tubes & solid-state to see which amp was better suited for the recording. So, I think I may have a chance to get to bed early tonight. Up overnight because I'm revisiting my new finds, so I've got both amps fired up while I consider what's for breakfast in a couple of hours.
   
  Cheers!
   
   
  Post Script. :  Any photographs coming soon? Share your rig with us here under 'Woo Audio Owner Unite.'


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by  SilentOne 

 My sessions start so late at night because the AC in the neighborhood (I'm not alone in this regard) is downright dirty! But right around 23:00 hours (or just before Midnight) it gets good. _Really good._ So, my options are to buy clean power like a conditioner/re-generator (PS Audio?) or one of the new battery powered options (which I really like). 
   
  Hi Again SilentOne, you are really a nice person and the only one that he is awake when in Italy it is full day (now it is 1.15 pm)! What kind of problems do you have if you start listenings sessions before 23:00? On my WA22 I have a slight buzz/hum on the left channel that it is non audible when music is playing  but it is audible between a take and the following and sometimes in the last seconds of a song when the music's volume fades. I already have a mains conditioning to clean power that improve tremendously all of my system (in sheer musicality, detail, trasparency, full bodied bass, etc)  but it doesn't eliminate the humming that sometimes is audible also if the WA22 is off! So yesterday afternoon I have gone to my friend's audioshop (if you and other hifiers want to take a look at his shop the link is www.gianfaldoni.com just click on "visita guidata" that is "guided tour" and you can see pictures of his really nice looking shop builded in an old rustic) with my WA22 to try it in another place away from my home, but in his shop there was absolutely no hum, no buzzing, total silence !. He says that my flat is near some EMF so it is not an easy problem to solve. Nevertheless if I switch the impedance selector from HI to LOW the humming goes down about 40%. Go figure!
   
  About Dark Shadows, In Italy (and in all of Europe I guess) this series is no available so it is also impossible to rent the DVD''s (because you are R1 region and in Europe DVD's are R2 region and we are not supposed to buy or watch American region DVD's).
   
  And now go take a nap please!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: Original posted by SilentOne
> 
> (On the solid-state side of my highlights we have The Beatles. I'm not necessarily a fan and whether they recorded 500 tracks or 5,000 I can still count the number of tracks I enjoy of theirs on one hand.)
> 
> ...


 

 Helter Skelter *"I've got blisters on my fingers" <<RIM SHOT>>.* The first time I heard that rim shot at the end of Helter Skelter followed immediately by Long, Long, Long was the moment that made me realize that the sound engineer was solely responsible for putting me on the road to becoming an audiophile. It grabbed by attention and made me truly understand why they mixed recordings the way the did in the first place. I must have played John Lennon's ending shout-out sentence over and over again while I sat exactly between two speakers pointed directly at my ears. I didn't own headphones back then--those were essentially my ear speakers. Listen to that sentence with headphones and you can see why the Beatles were the Beatles, John Lennon was John Lennon and the 60s were the 60s. --Then again maybe you won't see why.


----------



## MilesDavis2

Thank you, SilentOne.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings Miles Davis2 - love the music preferences! I too, am big on Weather Report but have yet to hear any of Jaco's solo efforts (I will shortly). Hopefully you'll get a reply late night or tomorrow...


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by
   
  (Helter Skelter *"I've got blisters on my fingers" <<RIM SHOT>>.* The first time I heard that rim shot at the end of Helter Skelter followed immediately by Long, Long, Long was the moment that made me realize that the sound engineer was solely responsible for putting me on the road to becoming an audiophile. It grabbed by attention and made me truly understand why they mixed recordings the way the did in the first place. I must have played John Lennon's ending shout-out sentence over and over again while I sat exactly between two speakers pointed directly at my ears. I didn't own headphones back then--those were essentially my ear speakers. Listen to that sentence with headphones and you can see why the Beatles were the Beatles, John Lennon was John Lennon and the 60s were the 60s. --Then again maybe you won't see why.)
   
  Well said Clayton! (get up early you too? What time is it where are you living?). Do you have the "long version" of Helter Skelter original present on Beatles Anthology 2? In that version it is more clearly audible what Ringo is saying and why he is saying (probably the Fab Four were jamming for a long time and for the drummer to beat hard on the drums for a lot of time is not healthy!).
  A thing that I don't stand about sound engineer is when they clip (is the right English word?) the end of a song: take for example "While my guitar gently weeps". How can someone clip an Eric Clapton's solo? (N.B. I think that Eric is a very good guitarist not the best but a solo is always a solo!)


----------



## Nova13

@MilesDavis2:
   
  I use a WA3 with a DT880/600ohm, and love it!  I havent had any experience with a WA6, but I can say for sure that the WA3 sounds good.  Prior to buying my amp I did consult Jack from Woo Audio, and he assured me that the WA3 would drive the Dt880/600 ohm perfectly.  Jack is an authorized Beyerdynamic seller and therefore he is quite familiar with them if you have more questions in that regard.
   
  One thing to consider.  The WA6 is more expensive, and consider the expense of rolling tubes.  You may want to save some money on the side (via purchasing the WA3 over the WA6) to tweak your sound through new tubes.  This is just something I did not consider before buying, and to my ears, new tubes make a definite difference.  Fortunately tubes were delivered to me through a unnamed saintly source who deserves a shout out! - Thanks John.
   
  Feel free to pm me if you have more detailed questions about dt880/WA3.
   
   
  Edit:  Here are some threads regarding WA3 and tube rolling, if interested.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/375119/woo-3-adventures-in-tuberolling-update-page-6/75
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/410791/woo-audio-3-experience/60


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: original posted by
> 
> (Helter Skelter *"I've got blisters on my fingers" <<RIM SHOT>>.* The first time I heard that rim shot at the end of Helter Skelter followed immediately by Long, Long, Long was the moment that made me realize that the sound engineer was solely responsible for putting me on the road to becoming an audiophile. It grabbed by attention and made me truly understand why they mixed recordings the way the did in the first place. I must have played John Lennon's ending shout-out sentence over and over again while I sat exactly between two speakers pointed directly at my ears. I didn't own headphones back then--those were essentially my ear speakers. Listen to that sentence with headphones and you can see why the Beatles were the Beatles, John Lennon was John Lennon and the 60s were the 60s. --Then again maybe you won't see why.)
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I get up early. It is 6.00. I get up at about 4.00 - 5.00 every weekday morning. I go to bed at midnight. I only need about 4 hours of sleep during the week. I take about three 15-minute naps at work (they encourage it and they have a special room for it called "The Wellness Room.") On the weekends I nap about the same way too. Sometimes I don't nap at all; that's when I'm really involved in listening to music.
   
  Clip is when the abruptly end the song or solo. Fade is when they start to decrease the sound and fade it away even when the guitarist is still playing! Perhaps they decided that the solo didn't quite end up where they wanted it to (skill-wise). But I think any solo by any artist should not be clipped or faded out!
   
  I do not own nor have I heard of the long version of Helter Skelter. I guess that I'll be buying that CD for this weekend's private Beatlefest!  Thanks!
   
  EDIT: It looks like it's on Beatles Anthology 3--at least in America.


----------



## Skylab

Both the WA3 and WA6 sound good with the DT880/600. If you never plan to buy other headphones I would go with the WA3. But the WA6 is the more flexible amp, and if you feel you might add another pair of headphones later, especially ones that are low impedance, the WA6 would be the better choice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Helter Skelter *"I've got blisters on my fingers" <<RIM SHOT>>.* The first time I heard that rim shot at the end of Helter Skelter followed immediately by Long, Long, Long was the moment that made me realize that the sound engineer was solely responsible for putting me on the road to becoming an audiophile. It grabbed by attention and made me truly understand why they mixed recordings the way the did in the first place. I must have played John Lennon's ending shout-out sentence over and over again while I sat exactly between two speakers pointed directly at my ears. I didn't own headphones back then--those were essentially my ear speakers. Listen to that sentence with headphones and you can see why the Beatles were the Beatles, John Lennon was John Lennon and the 60s were the 60s. --Then again maybe you won't see why.


 

 With thy getting understanding, will play it tonight. Thanks for sharing your experience. Truth be told, I ALMOST made it to the end save, 30 seconds or so (was screening 700+ tracks). Now you have me curious...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: original posted by  SilentOne
> 
> My sessions start so late at night because the AC in the neighborhood (I'm not alone in this regard) is downright dirty! But right around 23:00 hours (or just before Midnight) it gets good. _Really good._ So, my options are to buy clean power like a conditioner/re-generator (PS Audio?) or one of the new battery powered options (which I really like).
> 
> ...


 

 My WA6SE is dead silent at max volume. However, throughout the day, evening and night , the city's electrical demands will vary. As well as the rate in which it flows through the grid. Basically, things get slower at night due to many people trying to _sleep (sigh)_. At the end of the night, the Utility company begins to ramp up the amount of electricity flowing back into the grid. Juice isn't stored on the lines, rather they simply slow the flow and then speed it back up. The quality of juice during predawn hours is said to be the highest of the day - fast flowing, abundant with little demands until later in the morning.
   
  Of course, this is oversimplified as there are many variables, but hopefully you get the picture. Speaking of which, you need a region free disc player... and Collections  2-26 from the U.S.! haha


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nova13 said:


>


 


  Did you get the issues surrounding your Woo worked out?


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by  SilentOne
   
  (Yes, I forgot about Lo sounding more expansive, thanks Clayton. Sometimes when listening to poorly recorded or thin sounding tracks, I'm tempted to switch jacks and will if it's an entire CD. Only to play it again a month or two later on Lo and discover all the of resolution detail I missed! So now I just stay in the Lo-jack..).
   
  Hello again Silent, since 2001 I have a region free disc player and I own I don't know how many region1's DVD's (300, 400, 500? I really don't know because I am too lazy to catalogue all of my DVD's!) but at this moment I don't have the place for 25 Dark Shadows box sets (sigh!)
  I don't remember what kind of headphone you are using normally but I would like to know if, at this moment, you always stay  in the Lo-impedance and how this influences your listening session. It seems to me that the sound is thinner and with less body than when I switch in the Hi-impedance but also my hum is lesser so I guess, for a bit of time I will be obliged to stay on Lo-impedance (I listen with the HD-800)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: original posted by  SilentOne
> 
> (Yes, I forgot about Lo sounding more expansive, thanks Clayton. Sometimes when listening to poorly recorded or thin sounding tracks, I'm tempted to switch jacks and will if it's an entire CD. Only to play it again a month or two later on Lo and discover all the of resolution detail I missed! So now I just stay in the Lo-jack..).
> 
> ...


 

 I have the Denon AH-D7000 Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - XLR (Balanced). They are very efficient at 25 ohms. I stay on the low impedance jack now - the rare moments I switch jacks there are trade offs. So, now I just allow my brain to get use to the sound...
   
  Have yourself a great evening that way! I'm finally going to bed before the sun gets too bright.


----------



## LUMAZ

Sorry Clayton, Helter Skelter long version is on Beatles Anthology 3 in Europe too! I guess my memory falters sometimes, too many CD's to remember, from time to time I run the risk to buy something that I already own (nevertheless a week ago I buyed again an old recording, that is Donovan's Sunshine Superman because, for the first time after over 40 years they have found the stereo sessions! Grrrrrr..)


----------



## LUMAZ

Good night SilentOne and thanks again to keep me company in the long hours of my work!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Sorry Clayton, Helter Skelter long version is on Beatles Anthology 3 in Europe too! I guess my memory falters sometimes, too many CD's to remember, from time to time I run the risk to buy something that I already own (nevertheless a week ago I buyed again an old recording, that is Donovan's Sunshine Superman because, for the first time after over 40 years they have found the stereo sessions! Grrrrrr..)


 

 Donovan's Sunshine Superman--I had that on 8-track tape and vinyl. Epic records had the worst labels on their vinyl (just yellow with plain black type) but incredible vinyl pressings. Also Vanguard Records, to my ear, had the widest range in frequencies. Country Joe and the Fish with their psychedelic electric keyboard (that eerie sounding organ) was so high pitched! Joan Baez was also on Vanguard Records producing clean clear vocals to compliment her incredible guitar playing--Diamonds and Rust; have you heard that LP?
   
  P.S. Not only is your written English excellent (and I assume your spoken English as well), but so is your use of punctuation marks in your writing. Good for you! It's amazing what subtitles can do to help ones command of anther language. How many languages do you speak?


----------



## MilesDavis2

Nova 13...Thank you.  I would defenitely consider your advise.  Thanks for the generousity.
  
  Quote: 





nova13 said:


> @MilesDavis2:
> 
> I use a WA3 with a DT880/600ohm, and love it!  I havent had any experience with a WA6, but I can say for sure that the WA3 sounds good.  Prior to buying my amp I did consult Jack from Woo Audio, and he assured me that the WA3 would drive the Dt880/600 ohm perfectly.  Jack is an authorized Beyerdynamic seller and therefore he is quite familiar with them if you have more questions in that regard.
> 
> ...


----------



## MilesDavis2

Thank you Skylab.  When starting the love for headphones. I bought the D4 based on your shootout. I am using an HD600 and of course the DT880. So low impedance such as Grado SR80 won't be a good match for the WA6 then.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Both the WA3 and WA6 sound good with the DT880/600. If you never plan to buy other headphones I would go with the WA3. But the WA6 is the more flexible amp, and if you feel you might add another pair of headphones later, especially ones that are low impedance, the WA6 would be the better choice.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by  Clayton SF  
   
  (Donovan's Sunshine Superman--I had that on 8-track tape and vinyl. Epic records had the worst labels on their vinyl (just yellow with plain black type) but incredible vinyl pressings. Also Vanguard Records, to my ear, had the widest range in frequencies. Country Joe and the Fish with their psychedelic electric keyboard (that eerie sounding organ) was so high pitched! Joan Baez was also on Vanguard Records producing clean clear vocals to compliment her incredible guitar playing--Diamonds and Rust; have you heard that LP? ))
   
  When I was in my twenties and my daddy bought my first stereo system (a Thorens turntable, a integrated Denon ampli, a couple of Mission loudspeakers and naturally a Sennheiser can) I had a 5 LP box set of Joan Baez on Vanguard but I don't know this particular LP.
  Have you ever heard Joan singing the Italian song "C'era un ragazzo che come me amava i Beatles e i Rolling Stones?" (there was a boy that like me loved Beatles and Rolling Stones). It is a beautiful song written by an Italian singer in '66 (or '65? I don't remember)  against Vietnam War and when Joan heard the song she loved and singed in a beautiful way.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> Thank you Skylab.  When starting the love for headphones. I bought the D4 based on your shootout. I am using an HD600 and of course the DT880. So low impedance such as Grado SR80 won't be a good match for the WA6 then.


 

 The SR80 are not a good match for the* WA3* - for that you would need the WA6.


----------



## LUMAZ

Hi from Italy Skylab and sorry to disturb you (by the way in Chicago lives my father's old brother, his wife and his five sons!)
  Since you are the tubemeister as some other reviewers have justly pointed out I would like to know, in in your opinion,if on my WA22 (w. Senn HD-800) it would be better use the EML 5U4G mesh replacing thus the Sophia Princess 274 mesh. As drivers tubes I have a couple of TSBGRP of 1942 and as power tubes I have just bought a couple of WE421A that have replaced Sylvania 7236, Thanks and congratulations for your tubes collection!


----------



## Skylab

I have not heard the EML, but I did not like the Sophia.  I use a Tung-Sol 5U4G, and I think it sounds great.  It was also much cheaper than any of these current-production rectifiers, and based on what I have seen, probably much more reliable


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have not heard the EML, but I did not like the Sophia.  I use a Tung-Sol 5U4G, and I think it sounds great.  It was also much cheaper than any of these current-production rectifiers, and based on what I have seen, probably much more reliable


 

 Be nice, don't scare the new comers.  I do agree the Sophia princess is over rated compare to TS 5U4G for much less, the Mullard GZ34/37 are also really great for WA6 and WA22 but it runs much warmer than the 5U4G.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Their first day at TubeSchool?


----------



## Szadzik

jc9394 said:


> Be nice, don't scare the new comers.  I do agree the Sophia princess is over rated compare to TS 5U4G for much less, the Mullard GZ34/37 are also really great for WA6 and WA22 but it runs much warmer than the 5U4G.





clayton sf said:


> ^ Their first day at TubeSchool?




You guys are just making me feel like a pupil coming to his first day at school (and I worked as a teacher for a long time). 

When I read threads like this one I always start doubting my decisions and having second thoughts about the gear I buy and the money I spend on it. 

I just paid for a wa2 and now reading your and Skylab's advice I feel like everything I am doing is wrong. I do realise that because I am unable to audition equipment before purchasing it makes it difficult to pair the right phones and amps (took me a few months to get to the point where I found T1s to be my cans) and now that I paid for a wa2 and read your posts I start thinking - heck - I made a mistake and should have bought sth much cheaper/ different, etc., etc.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> You guys are just making me feel like a pupil coming to his first day at school (and I worked as a teacher for a long time).
> 
> When I read threads like this one I always start doubting my decisions and having second thoughts about the gear I buy and the money I spend on it.
> 
> I just paid for a wa2 and now reading your and Skylab's advice I feel like everything I am doing is wrong. I do realise that because I am unable to audition equipment before purchasing it makes it difficult to pair the right phones and amps (took me a few months to get to the point where I found T1s to be my cans) and now that I paid for a wa2 and read your posts I start thinking - heck - I made a mistake and should have bought sth much cheaper/ different, etc., etc.


 
   
  If you have a T1, then you *absolutely* did the right thing by ordering the WA2. I've heard no combination of cans and amp with better synergy.
   
  My advice is, don't sweat the other stuff. Don't worry about tube rolling for at least a few weeks, until your amp breaks in and you learn its sound signature. Just enjoy the combination -- you are in for a real treat.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> You guys are just making me feel like a pupil coming to his first day at school (and I worked as a teacher for a long time).
> 
> When I read threads like this one I always start doubting my decisions and having second thoughts about the gear I buy and the money I spend on it.
> 
> I just paid for a wa2 and now reading your and Skylab's advice I feel like everything I am doing is wrong. I do realise that because I am unable to audition equipment before purchasing it makes it difficult to pair the right phones and amps (took me a few months to get to the point where I found T1s to be my cans) and now that I paid for a wa2 and read your posts I start thinking - heck - I made a mistake and should have bought sth much cheaper/ different, etc., etc.


 

 Dude, join the club.  We all have paid for stuff we thought we would like only to find that we don't like it.  But, hey, that's what the for sale thread and audiogon.com are all about.  I bought a PWD and LCD-2 r1 headphones and put them up for sale on Audiogon.com and they were gone in 1/2 hour and I got most of my money back, and now I know what does not sound good, and I can keep searching for something that I do like.
   
  What is so great about this board, and this thread in particular, is that knowledgable and experienced people are willing to share their knowledge and experiences in friendly (mostly) ways.  So strap in, fire up and keep moving!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nova13 said:


> One thing to consider.  The WA6 is more expensive, and consider the expense of rolling tubes.  You may want to save some money on the side (via purchasing the WA3 over the WA6) to tweak your sound through new tubes.  This is just something I did not consider before buying, and to my ears, new tubes make a definite difference.  Fortunately tubes were delivered to me through a unnamed saintly source who deserves a shout out! - Thanks John.


 
  FWIW, the WA6 is the cheaper amp to tube roll, unless you venture into the realm of socket adapters.  Then it becomes just as expensive to roll as a WA22 more or less.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have not heard the EML, but I did not like the Sophia.  I use a Tung-Sol 5U4G, and I think it sounds great.  It was also much cheaper than any of these current-production rectifiers, and based on what I have seen, probably much more reliable


 

 A friend here with whom I chat with via PM recently made the switch to the EML 5U4G over the TS 5U4G.  Both were recommendations from me at various points in time.  It took a bit of convincing because of the cost, but I've always believed my EML just brings my amp to a completely new level, and once he tried his out he agreed.  He told me the level of detail was out of this world and far ahead of the Tung Sol, and he went into it as a skeptic because of the high cost of the tube.
   
  For the man who otherwise has everything in tubes, you might be pleasantly surprised to find they are worth the cost.  
   
  PS:  Oh, and I wanted to mention that Upscale Audio seems to have those Brimar 5R4GY rectifiers back in stock again too.  Still priced at $50 which is a steal for how well they perform if you ask me.  I remember you were interested before, so I wanted to pass that along.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> If you have a T1, then you *absolutely* did the right thing by ordering the WA2. I've heard no combination of cans and amp with better synergy.
> 
> My advice is, don't sweat the other stuff. Don't worry about tube rolling for at least a few weeks, until your amp breaks in and you learn its sound signature. Just enjoy the combination -- you are in for a real treat.


 

 X2, the WA2 is excellent match for T1.  You will not regret it.  Tube rolling is a personal preference, for some music genre and headphone I prefer the EML 274B over EML 5U4G but there are people who will disagree.  That is why I love tube amp, it is very personal.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Both the WA3 and WA6 sound good with the DT880/600. If you never plan to buy other headphones I would go with the WA3. But the WA6 is the more flexible amp, and if you feel you might add another pair of headphones later, especially ones that are low impedance, the WA6 would be the better choice.


 
   
  Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> Thank you Skylab.  When starting the love for headphones. I bought the D4 based on your shootout. I am using an HD600 and of course the DT880. So low impedance such as Grado SR80 won't be a good match for the WA6 then.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The SR80 are not a good match for the* WA3* - for that you would need the WA6.


 
   
   
  That's what I was saying in the first place: That the WA6 would be more versatile for different headphones with its impedance switch, and the WA3 would be more versatile in your system with its preamp outputs. Both will drive the DT880 well.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				grokit said:
			
		

> That's what I was saying in the first place: That the WA6 would be more versatile for different headphones with its impedance switch, and the WA3 would be more versatile in your system with its preamp outputs. Both will drive the DT880 well.


 
  Just a thought: wouldn't it be helpful if headphone amp manufactures listed the headphones that their amps can drive? They could have a database on their website that is updated as headphones come and go. It seems that the customer is doing all of the legwork to find out which headphone amp drives which headphones. But then again this may be a thought easier thought of than done.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Just a thought: wouldn't it be helpful if headphone manufactures listed the headphones that their amps can drive? They could have a database on their website that is updated as headphones come and go. It seems that the customer is doing all of the legwork to find out which headphone amp drives which headphones. But then again this may be a thought easier thought of than done.


 

 Good luck with that.  I'm trying to get information from Ray Samuels on his SR71-B headphone amp so the Audeze folks can advise me on which setting to choose to best drive their headphones(high, med or low) and Ray won't answer my questions.  All he will do is say his amp can drive any headphone and any setting will work.  I've told him in email and even in post on Head-fi that I just need a little information from him so the Audeze folks can respond and he won't answer.  He keeps saying he has given me all I need, and I keep telling him that is not what the Audeze people are asking for and it goes round and round.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> Good luck with that.  I'm trying to get information from Ray Samuels on his SR71-B headphone amp so the Audeze folks can advise me on which setting to choose to best drive their headphones(high, med or low) and Ray won't answer my questions.  All he will do is say his amp can drive any headphone and any setting will work.  I've told him in email and even in post on Head-fi that I just need a little information from him so the Audeze folks can respond and he won't answer.  He keeps saying he has given me all I need, and I keep telling him that is not what the Audeze people are asking for and it goes round and round.




That is typical Ray, I owned most if his amp and found out that almost all his am sounded the same. It is too warmth for me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Good luck with that.  I'm trying to get information from Ray Samuels on his SR71-B headphone amp so the Audeze folks can advise me on which setting to choose to best drive their headphones(high, med or low) and Ray won't answer my questions.  All he will do is say his amp can drive any headphone and any setting will work.  I've told him in email and even in post on Head-fi that I just need a little information from him so the Audeze folks can respond and he won't answer.  He keeps saying he has given me all I need, and I keep telling him that is not what the Audeze people are asking for and it goes round and round.


 

 What would you say the minimum requirements would be for driving an Audeze? Like the headphone needs (x)output this and (y)volts that (or is it watts?) to start this puppy? And there you have it. I mean isn't it an output impedance/watts/voltage/radiation thing? I have no idea--that's why I'm here reading all the livelong day.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And spending all night long.


----------



## Skylab

I also agree that the T1 and WA2 are a stellar combo. No worries the at all. the WA2 was even surprisingly good with the LCD-2, which is pretty low impedance.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> What would you say the minimum requirements would be for driving an Audeze? Like the headphone needs (x)output this and (y)volts that (or is it watts?) to start this puppy? And there you have it. I mean isn't it an output impedance/watts/voltage/radiation thing? I have no idea--that's why I'm here reading all the livelong day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Don't worry Clayton, your Leben, beta22, or WA2/22 drives it perfectly fine. I wish I have your amps...


----------



## Silent One

Quote:


mikemalter said:


> Good luck with that.  I'm trying to get information from Ray Samuels on his SR71-B headphone amp so the Audeze folks can advise me on which setting to choose to best drive their headphones(high, med or low) and Ray won't answer my questions.  All he will do is say his amp can drive any headphone and any setting will work.  I've told him in email and even in post on Head-fi that I just need a little information from him so the Audeze folks can respond and he won't answer.  He keeps saying he has given me all I need, and I keep telling him that is not what the Audeze people are asking for and it goes round and round.


 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Just a thought: wouldn't it be helpful if headphone amp manufactures listed the headphones that their amps can drive? They could have a database on their website that is updated as headphones come and go. It seems that the customer is doing all of the legwork to find out which headphone amp drives which headphones. But then again this may be a thought easier thought of than done.


 

  
  From where I've sat... and now sitting, this effort by headphone amp manufactures could do wonders for a certain group of people with headphones or pondering headphone/amp purchases. The concern for some headphone amp manufactures could be one of Marketing and those people that lie outside the aforementioned certain group of head-fier's (limitation of sales potentially). 
   
  That's one point of view. However, on the flip side, providing ratings could lift the entire niche industry we're in... (a rising tide lifts all boats). I am certainly for different players in our hobby doing more to work together - I applaud Audez'e for their efforts!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From where I've sat... and now sitting, this effort by headphone amp manufactures could do wonders for a certain group of people with headphones or pondering headphone/amp purchases. The concern for some headphone amp manufactures could be one of Marketing and those people that lie outside the aforementioned certain group of head-fier's (limitation of sales potentially).
> 
> That's one point of view. However, on the flip side, providing ratings could lift the entire niche industry we're in... (a rising tide lifts all boats). I am certainly for different players in our hobby doing more to work together - I applaud Audez'e for their efforts!


 
   
  I thought it wonderful when Jack Wu of Woo Audio made his *Tube Compatibility* chart available to us. Yay Jack for that!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Don't worry Clayton, your Leben, beta22, or WA2/22 drives it perfectly fine. I wish I have your amps...


 

 And you'll have your beta22 balanced soon!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I thought it wonderful when Jack Wu of Woo Audio made his *Tube Compatibility* chart available to us. Yay Jack for that!


 

  
  You're right! Both his Tube Compatibility chart & The Amp Comparison chart are brilliant. And both came about by many of you discussing those matters (repeatedly) over time - well that's what we do at head-fi!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




     And Jack being the attentive manufacturer he is, seeing after his customer's needs. Because of how Woo Audio goes about its business, I am a proud owner.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Guys!  I got my r2 LCD-2 headphones today.  They are in the HHD800 league and the leap in sound quality is big compared to r1.  I got the universal cable that ALO makes and one of the extenders is the mini balanced for the Ray Samuels SR71-B headphone amplifier.  I must say that the paring with of the ALO with the SR71-B is really nice even during this pre breakin stage.
> 
> Also, the people at ALO say that the LCD-2 headphones need very little breakin which is different from headphones with regular drivers.  It's the cable that is the issue, and that is what is being broken in.  This is did not know and thought I'd pass it along.


 

 Wasn't rev.1 on that level too? : )


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is typical Ray, I owned most if his amp and found out that almost all his am sounded the same. It is too warmth for me.


 

 Well, you know that they say, "Talent forgives all sins."  And in his case, his stuff is good.  I am really liking the SR71-B.  I have the balanced adapter on the LCD-2's and the experience is very WA22 like.  For grins, if I had the coin, I'd get a balanced adapter to go from XLR out of my W4S DAC-2 to the mini-balanced input on the SR71-B.  I'd like to hear what that puppy sounds like.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What would you say the minimum requirements would be for driving an Audeze? Like the headphone needs (x)output this and (y)volts that (or is it watts?) to start this puppy? And there you have it. I mean isn't it an output impedance/watts/voltage/radiation thing? I have no idea--that's why I'm here reading all the livelong day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton, you raise a really good question, and it's an issue I have never really understood.  Before getting into headphone amps, I always thought you plugged in your headphone and simply turned up the volume until you got the level you wanted.  Apperently output impedance (whatever that is) will supposedly mate ideally with a headphone that has a certian impedance rating (I think).  I posted a question in another thread (really, it did not mean anything) asking for anyone to please elaborate on this impedance stuff, but nobody stepped up to the plate.
   
  Maybe this headphone impedance matching stuff is all bunk, and Ray is just reacting to it by saying, just set it where it sounds good and fugetaboutit!
   
  So, if anyone here can explain it, I'm all ears.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Wasn't rev.1 on that level too? : )


 

 Actually I felt that r1's were too dark and collapsed to my tastes.  I liked the organic richness of the r.1's, but the HD800's, IMHO, were leaps and bounds ahead.  In r.2 I'm hearing much less of a microdetail gap.  They are a little less resolving than the HD800's and the soundstage is not as wide.  The cable is still being broken in so I really can't say for sure what my sense of them are until next week sometime when the cable is fully broken in.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, you know that they say, "Talent forgives all sins."  And in his case, his stuff is good.  I am really liking the SR71-B.  I have the balanced adapter on the LCD-2's and the experience is very WA22 like.  For grins, if I had the coin, I'd get a balanced adapter to go from XLR out of my W4S DAC-2 to the mini-balanced input on the SR71-B.  I'd like to hear what that puppy sounds like.


 
   
  Agreed on his SR-71B is better than his previous offering, I passed the balanced portable stage now and the JH13 I used for travel really don't need that much power and I prefer more neutral sounds.  I have no doubt it will sound amazing when it is feeding balanced from your DAC-2.
   
  You can't be serious that the SR-71B on the same level as WA22 with your GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP, and EML 5U4G...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  after all we are Woo fanboy...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And you'll have your beta22 balanced soon!


 


  Yes and i have to pay the man really soon.  He finally moved and settling in now...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Actually I felt that r1's were too dark and collapsed to my tastes.  I liked the organic richness of the r.1's, but the HD800's, IMHO, were leaps and bounds ahead.  In r.2 I'm hearing much less of a microdetail gap.  They are a little less resolving than the HD800's and the soundstage is not as wide.  The cable is still being broken in so I really can't say for sure what my sense of them are until next week sometime when the cable is fully broken in.


 

 Sweet tooth ~
   
  A desire for candy never gets old. How 'bout a tempting shot of the r.2 spec sitting on its side while you're burning them in? The black grill/Caribbean Rosewood contrast is enough to make my tooth hurt!


----------



## MacedonianHero

skylab said:


> The SR80 are not a good match for the* WA3* - for that you would need the WA6.




While I agree that the WA6 is a more versatile amp than the WA3, I wouldn't recommend it with Grados...I find their treble with this "SS-ish" amp can offer an overly bright presentation. IMO anyway.


----------



## MacedonianHero

skylab said:


> I also agree that the T1 and WA2 are a stellar combo. No worries the at all. the WA2 was even surprisingly good with the LCD-2, which is pretty low impedance.




I third this completely.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> While I agree that the WA6 is a more versatile amp than the WA3, I wouldn't recommend it with Grados...I find their treble with this "SS-ish" amp can offer an overly bright presentation. IMO anyway.


 


  Not if you are using Mullard GZ34 rectifier tube and 6EW7.  I do find them very well when I had HF-2 and WA6...


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> Not if you are using Mullard GZ34 rectifier tube and 6EW7.  I do find them very well when I had HF-2 and WA6...




The HF-2s are a different beast in the Grado lineup as their treble is more "subdued" than the "typical Grado house sound".


----------



## Clayton SF

Hard decision, yes? LCD-2 $945, T1 $1295, HD800 $1499. Then the tubes. Or is it the amp then the tubes? I do like the look of those phones. The LCD-2 is very nice. The T1, understated, and the HD800-- cyber! Okay, looks ain't everything.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Agreed on his SR-71B is better than his previous offering, I passed the balanced portable stage now and the JH13 I used for travel really don't need that much power and I prefer more neutral sounds.  I have no doubt it will sound amazing when it is feeding balanced from your DAC-2.
> 
> You can't be serious that the SR-71B on the same level as WA22 with your GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP, and EML 5U4G...
> 
> ...


 

 LOL.  No, the SR71-B is Woo "like".  It is not at the same level sonically, but Woo like in that in balanced mode the SR71-B has that wider feel to it.


----------



## bobeau

Guys, just got in a used WA6SE... so the amp works fine, but the driver tubes sit canted backward a bit to the point where when using the 6we7 they almost touch the chassis, perhaps 2-3 mm of space.  I'm wondering if this is normal tolerance and if it might be an issue if using 6EM7 as driver?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Guys!  I got my r2 LCD-2 headphones today.  They are in the HHD800 league and the leap in sound quality is big compared to r1.  I got the universal cable that ALO makes and one of the extenders is the mini balanced for the Ray Samuels SR71-B headphone amplifier.  I must say that the paring with of the ALO with the SR71-B is really nice even during this pre breakin stage.
> 
> Also, the people at ALO say that the LCD-2 headphones need very little breakin which is different from headphones with regular drivers.  It's the cable that is the issue, and that is what is being broken in.  This is did not know and thought I'd pass it along.


 
  Mike you devil!  Did you mention you were getting the R.2?    Don't believe  those folks at ALO.  That statement they gave you seems more like speculation than experience.  They definitely need break in which you will find out on your own.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Guys, just got in a used WA6SE... so the amp works fine, but the driver tubes sit canted backward a bit to the point where when using the 6we7 they almost touch the chassis, perhaps 2-3 mm of space.  I'm wondering if this is normal tolerance and if it might be an issue if using 6EM7 as driver?


 

 Observation : :    : :
   
  Greetings bobeau!  This could very well a fabrication issue with the chassis. I noticed my own tubes sit the same way - more space in front with little to the rear. No performance issues to report from such close spacing, only aesthetic.
   
  Now that you've brought the observation to the front, I'll send Jack (Woo Audio) an inquiry in case they'd like to review their measurements for stamping out the holes in the chassis for a more pleasing alignment.
   
  From my screen it doesn't look like you should have any problems with clearance. But then, I don't use the 6EM7 tube or the adapters for it. YMMV.


----------



## strannik

Can those tubes move around / sway in the socket in any way? For my WA6 I've found that most tubes don't exactly sit rock solid on the socket and you can 'lean' them into a certain direction.
   
  I don't know if an alignment like that would cause uneven heating/cooling for the tube, or even if it's good or bad for the tube, but curious to think about.

  
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Guys, just got in a used WA6SE... so the amp works fine, but the driver tubes sit canted backward a bit to the point where when using the 6we7 they almost touch the chassis, perhaps 2-3 mm of space.  I'm wondering if this is normal tolerance and if it might be an issue if using 6EM7 as driver?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike you devil!  Did you mention you were getting the R.2?    Don't believe  those folks at ALO.  That statement they gave you seems more like speculation than experience.  They definitely need break in which you will find out on your own.


 


  mikemalter will have the LCD-2 r.2's burned-in so fast _you'll think Audez'e "Benched" them on his behalf... fast!  _





  Which now has me curious about my own cans and others - wonder what the practices are for different headphone manufacturers before shipping their cans out. 1 hour on the bench? 20? Will call on Denon tomorrow...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Can those tubes move around / sway in the socket in any way? For my WA6 I've found that most tubes don't exactly sit rock solid on the socket and you can 'lean' them into a certain direction.
> 
> I don't know if an alignment like that would cause uneven heating/cooling for the tube, or even if it's good or bad for the tube, but curious to think about.


 


  I attempted to 'lean' my own some months ago but the tubes always return to their natural position. Could be effective if resolved underneath the cover though...


----------



## bobeau

Thanks guys!  Yeah I can lean them a bit, only concern is the clearance issue with adapters, as is no problem.  BTW the rectifier does it as well, perhaps a bit more, but of course there's tons of clearance for that tube.  I do find myself preferring the 6de7s and of course with those in you can't really tell... so are the 6EM7 not a popular tube?  I just bring them up as Woo says "The 6EM7 is the ultimate driver/power tube for the WA6-SE." and figure I'll try them soon enough.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Thanks guys!  Yeah I can lean them a bit, only concern is the clearance issue with adapters, as is no problem.  BTW the rectifier does it as well, perhaps a bit more, but of course there's tons of clearance for that tube.  I do find myself preferring the 6de7s and of course with those in you can't really tell... so are the 6EM7 not a popular tube?  I just bring them up as Woo says "The 6EM7 is the ultimate driver/power tube for the WA6-SE." and figure I'll try them soon enough.


 


  When you do, please report back as I have no idea what that series sound like.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike you devil!  Did you mention you were getting the R.2?    Don't believe  those folks at ALO.  That statement they gave you seems more like speculation than experience.  They definitely need break in which you will find out on your own.


 

 Ok, maybe you are right.  I still learning.  I figure 200 hours should do the trick, right?
   
  Yeah, still getting a little harsh sound out of my WA22 after building up my sources.  Got rid of the digital smear, but there is still that something that is too "busy" and a little too much sizzle on the top end.  Hoping the LCD-2's will help here.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> mikemalter will have the LCD-2 r.2's burned-in so fast _you'll think Audez'e "Benched" them on his behalf... fast!  _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 SilentOne, I really loved the way my WA22 sounded with your Denon's.  None of that harshness or extra busyness.  I really liked them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SilentOne, I really loved the way my WA22 sounded with your Denon's.  None of that harshness or extra busyness.  I really liked them.


 

 You are kind. I enjoyed hearing your WA22 with any can!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Your suggested 200 hours minimum for the new cans/cabling is low in my opinion. I'd only start paying attention at 200, but would take note between 300-500 hours on the critical side. The advantage for you and your solid-state gear is that you can continue on while being highly productive in your work.
   
  When shipsupt returns, he may take an interest in your review... _or my own if I can race over there without getting a speeding ticket!_


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ok, maybe you are right.  I still learning.  I figure 200 hours should do the trick, right?
> 
> Yeah, still getting a little harsh sound out of my WA22 after building up my sources.  Got rid of the digital smear, but there is still that something that is too "busy" and a little too much sizzle on the top end.  Hoping the LCD-2's will help here.


 

 It takes a while for the upper midrange to relax with the LCD.  At first it may seem a little tight up in there.  The first 24 hours you get one phase of burn in a Lot of folks say they have heard.  My cans so to finally come into their relaxed magic around 240 hours.  I'm taking a lot of flak about this with no one to back me up but it is what happened to me. 
   
  Mike you are working so hard on your system with such diligence that I think in the end no matter what DAC/Amp/cables/cans you end up with I'm just going to buy your system.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It takes a while for the upper midrange to relax with the LCD.  At first it may seem a little tight up in there.  The first 24 hours you get one phase of burn in a Lot of folks say they have heard.  My cans so to finally come into their relaxed magic around 240 hours.  I'm taking a lot of flak about this with no one to back me up but it is what happened to me.
> 
> Mike you are working so hard on your system with such diligence that I think in the end no matter what DAC/Amp/cables/cans you end up with I'm just going to buy your system.


 


  Burn-in : :   : :
   
_I got your back!_


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> Thank you Skylab.  When starting the love for headphones. I bought the D4 based on your shootout. I am using an HD600 and of course the DT880. So low impedance such as Grado SR80 won't be a good match for the WA6 then.


 

 Why do you say that?  The WA6 is good with low impedance phones, and even Skylab said as much.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> While I agree that the WA6 is a more versatile amp than the WA3, I wouldn't recommend it with Grados...I find their treble with this "SS-ish" amp can offer an overly bright presentation. IMO anyway.


 

 Not with the right tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Good to see you back in this space, HeadphoneAddict! Looking forward to photographs being returned from the upcoming Westone Colorado Meet.


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello Silent (since you are already online at this hour you have my first greetings from Italy).
 Burn-in is a very delicate matter: as of today my only component old enough it is my HD-800 (one year old). All the rest it is relatively young because I changed almost anything these last months! So my WA22 has begun his musical life only on March (unfortunately I have lost my mother last March and in January and February I didn't listen at all at music), then between May and July I have bought a new mains conditioner, a new interconnect cable, two new power cables, a new cable for the HD-800, new driver and power tubes, and finally Naim 555 with his separated power supply. So at this moment all of my system is "rusted" and a little bit "slow" and certainly it needs a lot of time to reach his full potential. The sound is beautiful but is also closed and not relaxed. The guy that sold me WE421A said to me that they need a 150 hours burn-in (minimum) and Naim cdp needs over 400 hours. It is a long way to Tipperary! So I advise MikeMalter to get slow with his new LCD-2 before to say how really plays because if I must say, after only two weeks that I have bought it, how is the sound of my Naim 555, I would say: "sometimes pretty nice, sometimes beautiful, sometimes (maybe) already wonderful (for example with the K2 Mastering edition of Eagles's Hell freezes over but this particular CD plays well on anything!) but surely not yet the sound of which I have read in some Hi-FI magazines'reviews and that made me choose to sacrifice a big amount of money to get it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SilentOne, I really loved the way my WA22 sounded with your Denon's.  None of that harshness or extra busyness.  I really liked them.


 
   
  If you are talking about the D7000, you should really try it on SR71B.  As a Woo fanboy, but I think Denon better with SS amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay. I'm not taking my WA6 to Amsterdam. The way air travel is these days I'd be lucky to ever see that amp again after I check it in, let alone Fido. But I need a quick and easy way to listen to music for 10 hours on KLM's flight (or is it Delta's--I forget) anyway. I need to get an iPod touch, a pair of light headphones and an amp, right? What do you suggest. The Woo stays at home--I fly with Woo-lite (isn't that what I use to wash my sweaters?) Thanks Guys! (and Gals, too).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Okay. I'm not taking my WA6 to Amsterdam. The way air travel is these days I'd be lucky to ever see that amp again after I check it in, let alone Fido. But I need a quick and easy way to listen to music for 10 hours on KLM's flight (or is it Delta's--I forget) anyway. I need to get an iPod touch, a pair of light headphones and an amp, right? What do you suggest. The Woo stays at home--I fly with Woo-lite (isn't that what I use to wash my sweaters?) Thanks Guys! (and Gals, too).


 


  Depends on your budget.
   
  Money is no object - Ultimate Ears, Jerry Harvey Audio, or Westone custom IEM
  Universal  IEM - Westone W3, W4, or UM3x (highly recommended), actually the Apple IEM (ADDIEM) is very good for the price too (get it from fleabay for around $40 and get the Sony hybrid tips)
  Portable - AT ES10, ESW10JPN


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks, jc9394. I shall look into your suggestion. I do have a budget but sometimes I forget. I wonder if Delta/KLM to/from Amsterdam serves inflight sake.


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello Clayton, I hope that in the future, some day, you (and all others Head-fiers) will come in vacation also in Italy and in particular in Tuscany where I live. (If any of you want to take a look at my town you can find "Lucca" on Wikipedia or on the link www.lucca.com). It would be very nice to meet all of you, let you see my CD's collection and naturally let you try my high-end system! And naturally lunch will be on me! (I hope that all of you likes Italian food).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks, jc9394. I shall look into your suggestion. I do have a budget but sometimes I forget. I wonder if Delta/KLM to/from Amsterdam serves inflight sake.


 

 Sorry no Sake, the only airline I know serve sake is JAL but they serve Heineken.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello Clayton, I hope that in the future, some day, you (and all others Head-fiers) will come in vacation also in Italy and in particular in Tuscany where I live. (If any of you want to take a look at my town you can find "Lucca" on Wikipedia or on the link www.lucca.com). It would be very nice to meet all of you, let you see my CD's collection and naturally let you try my high-end system! And naturally lunch will be on me! (I hope that all of you likes Italian food).


 

 That's great, LUMAZ. I extend an invite to you for a visit to San Francisco as well. How long is the train ride from Amsterdam to where you live? Or I could take a flight for one day to visit you in Lucca. Fly from Schiphol to your place. What is the name of the airport I would be landing at? I will be in Amsterdam on 16 Aug. to 24 August. PM me and let me know. And I love Italian food.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by Clayton SF 
   
  (That's great, LUMAZ. I extend an invite to you for a visit to San Francisco as well. How long is the train ride from Amsterdam to where you live? Or I could take a flight for one day to visit you in Lucca. Fly from Schiphol to your place. What is the name of the airport I would be landing at? I will be in Amsterdam on 16 Aug. to 24 August. PM me and let me know. And I love Italian food).
   
   
  The nearest airport to Lucca is that of Pisa, the town know worldwide for the leaning Tower. From Pisa to Lucca it needs half an hour by car along the normal road (or less if you take the highway). Next week, before you leave for Amsterdam let me know your movements in Europe so to find a day that you are free to come and take a quick trip to Tuscany.
   
  P.S. In the meantime take a look at the Lucca website, I think you will love our town!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> The nearest airport to Lucca is that of Pisa, the town know worldwide for the leaning Tower. From Pisa to Lucca it needs half an hour by car along the normal road (or less if you take the highway). Next week, before you leave for Amsterdam let me know your movements in Europe so to find a day that you are free to come and take a quick trip to Tuscany.
> 
> P.S. In the meantime take a look at the Lucca website, I think you will love our town!


 
  Will do. _Driving in Tuscany_ sounds like a movie and a challenge. I'd have to stop to sip the wines on the way! 
   
  Does anyone have any info on what Jack is up to?


----------



## Icenine2

I am a full time Cavalli Liquid Fire guy now.  I sold my Woo WA22.  The Liquid Fire has everything I've been looking for in a headphone amp: speed, detail, bass (drums and bass are just excellent), imaging, instrument separation.  Very happy!!  I still will be around here at  the Woo thread since I love all the discussions!  Thanks to everyone for all there help during my Woo ownership!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You are kind. I enjoyed hearing your WA22 with any can!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is one of the reasons I have certain pieces of my system solid-state, so I can burn stuff in.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It takes a while for the upper midrange to relax with the LCD.  At first it may seem a little tight up in there.  The first 24 hours you get one phase of burn in a Lot of folks say they have heard.  My cans so to finally come into their relaxed magic around 240 hours.  I'm taking a lot of flak about this with no one to back me up but it is what happened to me.
> 
> Mike you are working so hard on your system with such diligence that I think in the end no matter what DAC/Amp/cables/cans you end up with I'm just going to buy your system.


 

 I totally believe you WA.  If you say you experience it, then that is valid and I appreciate your input. 
   
  I had to laugh when I read your last line.  The thought that flashed through my brain was, after I have it all set up, burned in and settled down, I'll probably hear something I don't like and will want to sell it (probably not, but my brain is warped sometimes).  Thanks for the kind words.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I am a full time Cavalli Liquid Fire guy now.  I sold my Woo WA22.  The Liquid Fire has everything I've been looking for in a headphone amp: speed, detail, bass (drums and bass are just excellent), imaging, instrument separation.  Very happy!!  I still will be around here at  the Woo thread since I love all the discussions!  *Thanks to everyone for all there help during my Woo ownership!*


 

 Likewise, I'm sure!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If you are talking about the D7000, you should really try it on SR71B.  As a Woo fanboy, but I think Denon better with SS amp.


 
  I totally get what you are saying, JC.  I think I'm starting to understand your hearing profile.  I may be more sensitive to what I percieve as to hot in the higher frequencies, and from what I read from you, you like more activity up there.  The breakthrough came for me yesterday when you said the SR71-B was soft on top and to me it is hot up there.  After my LCD-2's break in, I may have to go the way of the D7000 as there just seems to be something extra I'm hearing in the music that makes it hard to listen to when I have my HD800's on.  I'm finding that to be the case also with the LCD-2's (but they are breaking in so I can't really say).  But with SilentOne's Denon, audio was soft an honey like with none of that tizzyness. 
   
  I'll take your adivse and look at the D7000 after the LCD-2's break in.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Will do. _Driving in Tuscany_ sounds like a movie and a challenge. I'd have to stop to sip the wines on the way!
> 
> Does anyone have any info on what Jack is up to?


 

 Clayton, if you go, please take lots of pictures; especially the food!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Clayton, if you go, please take lots of pictures; especially the food!


 
  The food? I was thinking of taking lots of pictures of LUMAZ's system. That is if I make it to Lucca. I can't promise anything because I have a really tight schedule. I Google mapped Lucca and there's a medieval fortress with signs of old ramparts at the center of the city. And we think that our City is old. I wonder if they have any headphone amp stores like ALO Audio in Lucca.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The food? I was thinking of taking lots of pictures of LUMAZ's system. That is if I make it to Lucca. I can't promise anything because I have a really tight schedule. I Google mapped Lucca and there's a medieval fortress with signs of old ramparts at the center of the city. And we think that our City is old. I wonder if they have any headphone amp stores like ALO Audio in Lucca.


 

 Only if you have time.  It was a lot of fun reading your posts about visiting each other and I thought it would be nice to see pictures.  Yes, pictures of LUMAZ's system too.  However if one goes to Italy, it would seem to me that food would trump audio (maybe only slightly).


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> I totally get what you are saying, JC.  I think I'm starting to understand your hearing profile.  I may be more sensitive to what I percieve as to hot in the higher frequencies, and from what I read from you, you like more activity up there.  The breakthrough came for me yesterday when you said the SR71-B was soft on top and to me it is hot up there.  After my LCD-2's break in, I may have to go the way of the D7000 as there just seems to be something extra I'm hearing in the music that makes it hard to listen to when I have my HD800's on.  I'm finding that to be the case also with the LCD-2's (but they are breaking in so I can't really say).  But with SilentOne's Denon, audio was soft an honey like with none of that tizzyness.
> 
> I'll take your adivse and look at the D7000 after the LCD-2's break in.




I like female vocal and classical, but yes, I do like high more than bass on headphone. I do like bass, lot of bass on speaker setup. Remember in college years, my friends call m car's back seat a massage chair.


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I totally get what you are saying, JC.  I think I'm starting to understand your hearing profile.  I may be more sensitive to what I percieve as to hot in the higher frequencies, and from what I read from you, you like more activity up there.  The breakthrough came for me yesterday when you said the SR71-B was soft on top and to me it is hot up there.  After my LCD-2's break in, I may have to go the way of the D7000 as there just seems to be something extra I'm hearing in the music that makes it hard to listen to when I have my HD800's on.  I'm finding that to be the case also with the LCD-2's (but they are breaking in so I can't really say).  But with SilentOne's Denon, audio was soft an honey like with none of that tizzyness.
> 
> I'll take your adivse and look at the D7000 after the LCD-2's break in.


 


 A very, very happy new owner of the D7000's here. I haven't been this happy with a new pair of headphones since getting the Grado HP1000's in the '90's. I don't think the Denon's are perfect-- other cans can best them in certain areas. But they are just soo musical. And comfortable. And aesthetically pleasing. Very satisfying.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> A very, very happy new owner of the D7000's here. I haven't been this happy with a new pair of headphones since getting the Grado HP1000's in the '90's. I don't think the Denon's are perfect-- other cans can best them in certain areas. But they are just soo musical. And comfortable. And aesthetically pleasing. Very satisfying.


 
  Just when I've narrowed the choices down to the T1, the HD800, and the LCD-2 then along comes the D7000. Actually the 7000s have always been in sight (right SilentOne?)--I just need to stop reading and start acting. Alright, I need a hat with 4 pieces of paper....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Boy I love this hobby, I really do!


----------



## Silent One

(Silent One observes the D7000 getting some love... decides it too much... and comes online breaking his silence!)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Just when I've narrowed the choices down to the T1, the HD800, and the LCD-2 then along comes the D7000. Actually the 7000s have always been in sight (right SilentOne?)--I just need to stop reading and start acting. Alright, I need a hat with 4 pieces of paper....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Post AMS, when I come by I can always leave them behind for a week or two while you evaluate...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> A very, very happy new owner of the D7000's here. I haven't been this happy with a new pair of headphones since getting the Grado HP1000's in the '90's. I don't think the Denon's are perfect-- other cans can best them in certain areas. But they are just soo musical. And comfortable. And aesthetically pleasing. Very satisfying.


 

 What I've really come to appreciate about the D7000 is they do well across many genres and musical styles for me than merely excelling in one or two areas; a higher average if you would. Agreed - musical, comfortable and aesthetically pleasing. I do hope to add a open headphone one day. I could see the new LCD-2 r.2 inside the listening room. Also, while others report the D7000's strength may lie in solid-state, I enjoy them with both my Woo & Pioneer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I like female vocal and classical, but yes, I do like high more than bass on headphone. I do like bass, lot of bass on speaker setup. Remember in college years, my friends call m car's back seat a massage chair.


 

 Greetings JC!
   
  An article you and others might enjoy:
   
  [size=medium]Deep Listening to Deep Bass, the Basic Foundation of All Music[/size]
_[size=x-small]by Teresa Goodwin[/size]_
   
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue55/bass.htm


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Just when I've narrowed the choices down to the T1, the HD800, and the LCD-2 then along comes the D7000. Actually the 7000s have always been in sight (right SilentOne?)--I just need to stop reading and start acting. Alright, I need a hat with 4 pieces of paper....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Lol. I can tell the T1's could be excellent, but they are not a good match with my Burson amp. I'll likely be ordering the WA3 soon. And also saving up for the LCD 2's.


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What I've really come to appreciate about the D7000 is they do well across many genres and musical styles for me than merely excelling in one or two areas; a higher average if you would. Agreed - musical, comfortable and aesthetically pleasing. I do hope to add a open headphone one day. I could see the new LCD-2 r.2 inside the listening room. Also, while others report the D7000's strength may lie in solid-state, I enjoy them with both my Woo & Pioneer.


 


 Yeah, most people seem to say that the Denon's aren't great with tubes. It's good to hear that at least one person can still enjoy them with a Woo amp though. They probably won't be ideal with the WA3, but that's partly why I'm keeping the Burson.


----------



## jc9394

It is not as bad on tube amp, you just need to find a set of tubes that is not that tubey.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Just when I've narrowed the choices down to the T1, the HD800, and the LCD-2 then along comes the D7000. Actually the 7000s have always been in sight (right SilentOne?)--I just need to stop reading and start acting. Alright, I need a hat with 4 pieces of paper....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As much as I like the D7000, I sold it to fund the beta22. That leaves me that I like the hd800 and LCD-2 much more, I'm sure I will get it back in the later days.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Okay. I'm not taking my WA6 to Amsterdam. The way air travel is these days I'd be lucky to ever see that amp again after I check it in, let alone Fido. But I need a quick and easy way to listen to music for 10 hours on KLM's flight (or is it Delta's--I forget) anyway. I need to get an iPod touch, a pair of light headphones and an amp, right? What do you suggest. The Woo stays at home--I fly with Woo-lite (isn't that what I use to wash my sweaters?) Thanks Guys! (and Gals, too).


 


  You'll need some time if you want custom IEMs, as you need to get ear impressions from an audiologist, them send them to the customs maker to get them custom made. And hopefully the fit will be correct the first time, as there is no guarantees that you will not need a re-fit, or that you will like them in your ears even if they do fit, as they do take some getting used to.
   
  As far as universal IEMs go the best I have heard is the JVC/Victor Fx700. They are made for the Japanese market but are easily acquired. There is plenty of info on them here at Head-fi, and some very good sellers on eBay as well as the Japanese sites.


----------



## WindyCityCy

D7000 sound fantastic on both WA22 and Burson HA-160D. 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> What I've really come to appreciate about the D7000 is they do well across many genres and musical styles for me than merely excelling in one or two areas; a higher average if you would. Agreed - musical, comfortable and aesthetically pleasing. I do hope to add a open headphone one day. I could see the new LCD-2 r.2 inside the listening room. Also, while others report the D7000's strength may lie in solid-state, I enjoy them with both my Woo & Pioneer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> Yeah, most people seem to say that the Denon's aren't great with tubes. It's good to hear that at least one person can still enjoy them with a Woo amp though. They probably won't be ideal with the WA3, but that's partly why I'm keeping the Burson.


 

 D7000: The road less traveled.
   
  Sometimes in life, patience and longevity can offer rewards like no other experience or enhance previously know experiences. For example, in May I sold my Denon AH-D5000's with some 1,926 hours on them (I believe). Well, I thought they were done breaking-in and doin' their thing once I sailed past 300 hours.
   
  I noticed a small change by hour 500. But pretty much, I accepted what I thought to be my sound signature with my WA6SE. However, just past 1,200 hours I had my mind blown - the Denons became a completely different headphone... _"What the?!"  _Curious, I started plugging into stand alone sources for confirmation - yup, the Denons became magically sweeter. Further refinement came at the 1,900 mark.
   
  Honestly, this can was now night and day from its '300' hour days. It is unfortunate that, many former D7000 owners with tube amps sold them prematurely. And likely within a few hundred hours, since many head-fier's have more than one can. When I get back on my employment feet, there's other purchases to be made but I doubt if I'm going to part with either the Woo or the Denon. 
   
  I've met/known several cats with tube & solid-state gear, speakers & headphones, and nuthin' can replace the sweetness that thousands and thousands of hours can place on electronics they'll testify (also confirmed by my listening).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> D7000 sound fantastic on both WA22 and Burson HA-160D.


 

 Great to see you WindyCityCy! I also think my D7000's sound fantastic on my WA6SE & mikemalter's WA22... (a quick check shows 504 hours and looking forward to many more).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> You'll need some time if you want custom IEMs, as you need to get ear impressions from an audiologist, them send them to the customs maker to get them custom made. And hopefully the fit will be correct the first time, as there is no guarantees that you will not need a re-fit, or that you will like them in your ears even if they do fit, as they do take some getting used to.
> 
> As far as universal IEMs go the best I have heard is the JVC/Victor Fx700. They are made for the Japanese market but are easily acquired. There is plenty of info on them here at Head-fi, and some very good sellers on eBay as well as the Japanese sites.


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Depends on your budget.
> 
> Money is no object - Ultimate Ears, Jerry Harvey Audio, or Westone custom IEM
> Universal  IEM - Westone W3, W4, or UM3x (highly recommended), actually the Apple IEM (ADDIEM) is very good for the price too (get it from fleabay for around $40 and get the Sony hybrid tips)
> Portable - AT ES10, ESW10JPN


 

 Thanks for the info, gents. I guess I will just look into getting something, at least.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> A very, very happy new owner of the D7000's here. I haven't been this happy with a new pair of headphones since getting the Grado HP1000's in the '90's. I don't think the Denon's are perfect-- other cans can best them in certain areas. But they are just soo musical. And comfortable. And aesthetically pleasing. Very satisfying.


 
  Thanks for passing this along.  They are on my agenda.  Musical is best.


----------



## mikemalter

Vinyl is in the house!
   
  Just got back from the Tweak Shop (yeah, that's the name) in Santa Rosa.  Elliot Kallen had to solder a ground on one channel and a hot lead on the other.  Now DSOTM!
   
  Grokit, you rock.  You got me back in the vinyl grove.  I'm using the tubed phono stage on my Granite Audio preamp and tape out into my W4S and on to speakers and later WA22.  Will keep this setup for a while as other things settle down.
   
  Pictures later.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Vinyl is in the house!
> 
> Just got back from the Tweak Shop (yeah, that's the name) in Santa Rosa.  Elliot Kallen had to solder a ground on one channel and a hot lead on the other.  Now DSOTM!
> 
> ...


 

 On a Friday no less...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On a Friday no less...


 

 A few quick snaps, more nicer one's later:


----------



## Clayton SF

^ ! ^ ! ^ !
   
  And this tt was in storage until just now?
  What else do you have that is stashed away?


----------



## Silent One

Busted! He was holding out on us!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A few quick snaps, more nicer one's later:


 


  That just made my weekend! I'm really... really gonna have to match schedules with you before you 'Island Hop!'


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ ! ^ ! ^ !
> 
> And this tt was in storage until just now?
> What else do you have that is stashed away?


 

 It was downstairs in my defunct listening/living room/catbox.
  
  I had not listened to it in about two years.  It was just sitting down there.  Kind of fell out of listening to vinyl or anything for that matter.  But now that I am on a project where I can develop software in my home office, so I'm moving stuff upstairs to where I am working.  I just started looking at some of my albums and thinking, wow, I have some good stuff, why haven't I been at this for so long.
   
  I did also break out my Granite Audio preamp (tubed - will post innards pictures later) to function as a phono stage until the muse strikes (but not for a while).  Only problem is it is not balanced, so it can't feed my WA22.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Busted! He was holding out on us!!!


 

 Caught!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> It was downstairs in my _*defunct listening/living room/catbox.*_
> 
> I had not listened to it in about two years.  It was just sitting down there.  Kind of fell out of listening to vinyl or anything for that matter.  But now that I am on a project where I can develop software in my home office, so I'm moving stuff upstairs to where I am working.  I just started looking at some of my albums and thinking, wow, I have some good stuff, why haven't I been at this for so long.
> 
> ...


 

 Wait a minute. You have a _*defunct listening/living room/catbox*_? I have a one-bedroom apartment that I can barely find a place in which to store another 5U4G rectifier and you are telling me that you have a defunct listening/living room/catbox which housed a beautiful turntable that, until recently, was collecting dust. Well "Open Sesame!"
   
  All kidding aside--that is one sexy turntable. So you're spinnin' vinyl now--cool!


----------



## MacedonianHero

headphoneaddict said:


> Not with the right tubes.




Good point...I only got to hear the WA6 with one set of tubes (can't remember what they were), but in comparison to a warmer/lusher amp like the MAD Ear+HD, I would think tubes couldn't change the sound by that much. I think the WA6 is a better all rounder amp, but with Grados, the MAD is one of the very best.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A few quick snaps, more nicer one's later:


 

 Wow that is sweet!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Good point...I only got to hear the WA6 with one set of tubes (can't remember what they were), but in comparison to a warmer/lusher amp like the MAD Ear+HD, I would think tubes couldn't change the sound by that much. I think the WA6 is a better all rounder amp, but with Grados, the MAD is one of the very best.


 

 6SN7 alters the WA6 tone radically.  Swings 'er right around to the other end of the spectrum depending upon the tube choice.  I can make mine sound lush on the K701, and if I throw a 6DE7 or 6FD7 back in I can make it sound dry and SS-ish again too.


----------



## WindyCityCy

All this talk of D7000 is getting me excited to plug them in tonight.  Could turn into a long night of listening


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 6SN7 alters the WA6 tone radically.  Swings 'er right around to the other end of the spectrum depending upon the tube choice.  I can make mine sound lush on the K701, and if I throw a 6DE7 or 6FD7 back in I can make it sound dry and SS-ish again too.


 

  
  Agreed. The 6SN7 series brought me more choices and flexibility for the _WA 6_ _Special Edition._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> All this talk of D7000 is getting me excited to plug them in tonight.  Could turn into a long night of listening


 
   
  Tonight ~
  
  With lights out and only the glow of tubes and the sound of music emanating from the listening room, I shall look out into the midnight skies in search of another Woo/D7000 pairing.


----------



## MacedonianHero

xcalibur255 said:


> 6SN7 alters the WA6 tone radically.  Swings 'er right around to the other end of the spectrum depending upon the tube choice.  I can make mine sound lush on the K701, and if I throw a 6DE7 or 6FD7 back in I can make it sound dry and SS-ish again too.




There's lush and then there's LUSH like the MAD amp (quite a bit tubier than my WA22).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 6SN7 alters the WA6 tone radically.  Swings 'er right around to the other end of the spectrum depending upon the tube choice.  I can make mine sound lush on the K701, and if I throw a 6DE7 or 6FD7 back in I can make it sound dry and SS-ish again too.


 


  Just to make sure I don't consume my designated pint of Haagen-Dazs prematurely, where you going to post _The Ultimate Bad Boys_ review in this thread or somewhere else? Wanna make sure I get a seat... and some ice-cream!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Well said SilentOne.  I will raise my glass in your general direction as I loose myself in some sweet tunes!!!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tonight ~
> 
> With lights out and only the glow of tubes and the sound of music emanating from the listening room, I shall look out into the midnight skies in search of another Woo/D7000 pairing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> There's lush and then there's LUSH like the MAD amp (quite a bit tubier than my WA22).


 


  Well, I do believe there is such a thing as too lush personally.  Perhaps pleasantly lush might describe it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just to make sure I don't consume my designated pint of Haagen-Dazs prematurely, where you going to post _The Ultimate Bad Boys_ review in this thread or somewhere else? Wanna make sure I get a seat... and some ice-cream!


 


  Can't really think of how to justify a thread just for the topic, though it seems somehow more appropriate for the 6SN7 thread.  The dialogue on the subject was here so here it will go, when I get that picture taken.  Had a friend from out of town in the last couple of days so I haven't gotten a chance.


----------



## MacedonianHero

xcalibur255 said:


> Well, I do believe there is such a thing as too lush personally.  Perhaps pleasantly lush might describe it.




With a warm headphone, the MAD can be too lush, but with Grados, a perfect fit IMO.


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> A few quick snaps, more nicer one's later:




That's a really nice deck, Mike! How have you been neglecting it?!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wait a minute. You have a _*defunct listening/living room/catbox*_? I have a one-bedroom apartment that I can barely find a place in which to store another 5U4G rectifier and you are telling me that you have a defunct listening/living room/catbox which housed a beautiful turntable that, until recently, was collecting dust. Well "Open Sesame!"
> 
> All kidding aside--that is one sexy turntable. So you're spinnin' vinyl now--cool!


 

 Yeah, my wife and I have a smallish condo in San Rafael.  She got the master bedroom suite to turn into her office so I got the living room to turn into what ever I wanted.  Only thing is that the catbox is downstairs and we had two cats, but only one remain.  So, they sort of extended the catbox out into the room and well, they also used it for hairballs.  It basically turned pretty stinky and I am not spending much time there.  Only one cat left, and we are not having any pets after this one goes, so the rugs will get pulled up and then it will be livable again.
   
  Thanks for the comments on the 'table.  I really like it, and the tonearm is carbon fiber with a jeweled point pivot.  Basically a hard gem on the inside with a little hole in it, and it rests on a spike so the joint is not mechanical.  The cartridge is a Benz Ebony high gain which got put on there when I smacked my fully broken in and sweet sounding Benz Micro cartridge and broke off the needle.
   
  I'm listening to vinyl now on my WA22 and it's really nice.  I also like that I have a P5 which puts out a true 60 cycle signal so the timeing of my turntable motor is spot on.  They sell special motors for mucho dinaro to get that right, and the P5 & 10 owners get it along with the total package.
   
  Here are a few Granite Audio preamp gut pictures.  I wrote a review of the preamp for Positive-Feedback online and bought the review sample.  I'll try to find the link.
   

   

  


 The circuit board is 4 levels so that paths are not parallel but intersections which help reduce noise.  Get this.  They place black velvet strips on the top edge of their preamp so that when you put on the cover, it's not metal on metal with potential vibrations.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Wow that is sweet!


 

 Thanks, WA.
  
   


  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> All this talk of D7000 is getting me excited to plug them in tonight.  Could turn into a long night of listening


 

 Yeah!!!!!!!!
  
   


  Quote: 





jerico said:


> That's a really nice deck, Mike! How have you been neglecting it?!


 

 Couple of years, but now it's back.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> * * * * *
> Thanks for the comments on the 'table.  I really like it, and the tonearm is carbon fiber _*with a jeweled point pivot.  Basically a hard gem on the inside with a little hole in it, and it rests on a spike so the joint is not mechanical.*_
> 
> Here are a few Granite Audio preamp gut pictures.  I wrote a review of the preamp for Positive-Feedback online and bought the review sample.  _*I'll try to find the link.*_
> ...


 

 Sounds like it runs like a finely tuned Swiss Watch of yore! Remember those? I swear, if i hadn't gone the route of the audiophile I would have collected mechanical clocks and watches. I used to be fascinated by those as a kid--and I still am.
   
  I found it! Great review. Here's the link: *Positive Feedback, Issue 6*


----------



## grokit

Quote:  

 Very nice turntable Mike, I am still jealous but not quite as much as I thought I was!
   
  When I Googled "Clearaudio Statement", this is what came up:
   

   
  http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Statement-Turntable?sc=2&category=347
   
  $ =


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Very nice turntable Mike, I am still jealous but not quite as much as I thought I was!
> 
> When I Googled "Clearaudio Statement", this is what came up:
> http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Statement-Turntable?sc=2&category=347
> ...


 
  Give Mike a few days, he may just come across one of those buried somewhere in his _*defunct listening/living room/catbox! *_


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> All done editing.  Promise me you guys won't tl;dr when you see it, because it's reaaaaally long.  I got carried away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Errr... how is that going?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Give Mike a few days, he may just come across one of those buried somewhere in his _*defunct listening/living room/catbox! *_


 

 I have to admit that I thought it was _a bit pedestrian_ to be mounting "only" a $5K cartridge on that baby!


----------



## Clayton SF

Mike's cat and what he found!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Very nice turntable Mike, I am still jealous but not quite as much as I thought I was!
> 
> When I Googled "Clearaudio Statement", this is what came up:
> 
> ...


 

 Did I say Statement?  Sorry, I meant Solution.  It is actually an old turntable and they do not make them anymore.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Couple of years, but now it's back.


 

 A couple of years?!   That's got to be some kind of audiophile crime.  You could be arrested and sentenced to "1980 digital sound" for 2 years for an offense like that.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike's cat and what he found!


 


  LLLLOOOLL!  Pix of the day!!!


----------



## winzzz

any new info bout the new woo flagship amp ?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have to admit that I thought it was _a bit pedestrian_ to be mounting "only" a $5K cartridge on that baby!


 

 The Benz LP is the $5000.00 one, which is too rich for my blood.  I have it's more modest cousin the Benz Ebony H (it's a mc cartridge, but a high output mc).
   
  Grokit, I'm really glad you started posting about vinyl, thank you for getting me going again.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> The Benz LP is the $5000.00 one, which is too rich for my blood.  I have it's more modest cousin the Benz Ebony H (it's a mc cartridge, but a high output mc).
> 
> Grokit, I'm really glad you started posting about vinyl, thank you for getting me going again.


 


 So we've gone from a Clearasdio Statement with a Benz LP to a Clearaudio Solution with a Benz Ebony. That cracks me up, you are mortal after all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Compared to to me you are superhuman though...
   
  Anyways I am swimmingly glad I could help to inspire and _motivate_. Did you ever get a diagnosis on that missing channel?
   
  That does look like a _crazy nice_ turntable, BTW. I am still jealous!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks for the info, gents. I guess I will just look into getting something, at least.


 

 One thing that I forgot to mention is that the Fx700 sounds great straight out of a DAP, no separate amp is necessary. I was using it straight out of my 5G iMod the other day and it sounded fantastic. I usually listen with a huge Vcap dock and Headstage Arrow but have found with the Fx700 that is unnecessary unless I am using full-size cans.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: Original posted by *mikemalter* 


  (Clayton, if you go, please take lots of pictures; especially the food!)
   
  Hey, Mike I guess (and I hope) that Clayton will eat Italian food not only take pictures of it! I know that in California there are a lot of Italian people, and also a lot of "Lucchesi" (so is called Lucca's people!) that have some restaurants. Have you ever been to eat to Italian restaurants in your area?
  
  Quote: Original psoted by *Clayton SF* 


  (I wonder if they have any headphone amp stores like ALO Audio in Lucca) 
   
  To tell the truth Clayton, Lucca is not a big town (90,000 inhabitans more or less) and we have only a High-End store that sells only things like Marantz, Cambridge, French YBA, Sennheiser, Bang & Olufsen, Nordost cables, and other things only on order.
  Now my favourite store is at Bientina (I gave you the link at a precedent post) because it sells Naim and especially because we become friends and I can pass a whole day in his store, listening to vinyl records. Cd's, on a lot of wonderful units (he has an incredible turntable but i don't remember the brand, maybe some day I will send you a picture of this).
  Ah, Lucca is 2000 years old (more or less, maybe more).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello Silent (since you are already online at this hour you have my first greetings from Italy).
> Burn-in is a very delicate matter: as of today my only component old enough it is my HD-800 (one year old). All the rest it is relatively young because I changed almost anything these last months! So my WA22 has begun his musical life only on March (unfortunately I have lost my mother last March and in January and February I didn't listen at all at music), then between May and July I have bought a new mains conditioner, a new interconnect cable, two new power cables, a new cable for the HD-800, new driver and power tubes, and finally Naim 555 with his separated power supply. So at this moment all of my system is "rusted" and a little bit "slow" and certainly it needs a lot of time to reach his full potential. The sound is beautiful but is also closed and not relaxed. The guy that sold me WE421A said to me that they need a 150 hours burn-in (minimum) and Naim cdp needs over 400 hours. It is a long way to Tipperary! So I advise MikeMalter to get slow with his new LCD-2 before to say how really plays because if I must say, after only two weeks that I have bought it, how is the sound of my Naim 555, I would say: "sometimes pretty nice, sometimes beautiful, sometimes (maybe) already wonderful (for example with the K2 Mastering edition of Eagles's Hell freezes over but this particular CD plays well on anything!) but surely not yet the sound of which I have read in some Hi-FI magazines'reviews and that made me choose to sacrifice a big amount of money to get it.


 


  Seasoning... can make a good life even better! Based on your Naim's design, including the separate power supply, I wouldn't be surprised if the best was yet to come between 500-700 hours. Not talking minimum but rather, when it really begins to swing! I'm sure at 400 hours it will have your attention though. Speaking of 'hours', inside my listening room are four clocks, two of which are set to Paris local time. I've got a pretty good idea what you're up to and when back there in Italy... especially dinner! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  More importantly though, I'm sorry to hear about your loss and my sentiments goes out to your family_______


----------



## Skylab

mikemalter said:


> The Benz LP is the $5000.00 one, which is too rich for my blood.  I have it's more modest cousin the Benz Ebony H (it's a mc cartridge, but a high output mc).
> 
> Grokit, I'm really glad you started posting about vinyl, thank you for getting me going again.



I have a Benz LP-S on my VPI Scoutmatser. I love Benz cartridges. I'm sure the Ebony is also terrific. There is something just very right sounding about the Benz.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: Original posted by *mikemalter*
> 
> 
> (Clayton, if you go, please take lots of pictures; especially the food!)
> ...


 

 I told some friends at work about you and your city of Lucca and guess what! My friend Jennie's husband is married to a man from Lucca. His parents are Lucchesi who emigrated to San Francisco in the early 1900s. Her husbands name is Ippolito Lucchesi. Now why would his sur name coincidentally be Lucchesi? They visit Lucca quite often have told me that they are greeted by their Italian relatives with evenings of non-stop meals where the food just "kept on coming."
   
  I own 3 turntables (Pro-Ject Xperience, Technics SL1200MK2, and MMF 9.1) I sometimes connect the tt in use to the Woo then to the Fi Yph phono stage.


----------



## Eee Pee

There's something about the Fi gear that is so appealing to me, and has been since I first saw it back in the mid 90s in some magazine I think.  Time to investigate if the Yph is still available.  Clayton, how did you acquire yours?


----------



## Clayton SF

I emailed Don Garber in May 2010 after reading a review about it on Six Moons website and told him that I was interested in the Fi Yph phono stage. Don told me that it takes about 8 months to build whatever I ordered but that he had one that needed about a week's worth of work before completion. The original person who had ordered it could no longer afford it. He said that he would sell me that one. So one week later after his completion of the unit it was shipped. It is a beautiful piece of work. Don said that I would need a step-up transformer if I used it with a < 1.0 mV MC cartridge so I got one from Bob's Devices.


----------



## Eee Pee

Thanks Clayton.  I found your Flickr pictures with Google.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Looks like you got lucky and didn't have to wait a long 8 months.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Thanks Clayton.  I found your Flickr pictures with Google.


 
  Ssssssshhhhhhhh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  By the way. I am listening to _*Pat Metheny--Letters from Home*_ on HD650 and WA2. I swear these HD650 have never ever sounded this good before. The WA2 is the amp for HD650. Clean and clear highs and absolutely no SennVeil. The lows are exactly where I want them and the mids are only slightly recessed. I can now wait a few more months before I start to think about getting the LCD-2(rev2) again.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by  SilentOne 
   
   
  (Seasoning... can make a good life even better! Based on your Naim's design, including the separate power supply, I wouldn't be surprised if the best was yet to come between 500-700 hours. Not talking minimum but rather, when it really begins to swing! I'm sure at 400 hours it will have your attention though. Speaking of 'hours', inside my listening room are four clocks, two of which are set to Paris local time. I've got a pretty good idea what you're up to and when back there in Italy... especially dinner! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  More importantly though, I'm sorry to hear about your loss and my sentiments goes out to your family) 
   
  Thanks for you kind words SIlentOne, they mean very much for me, really..
  About Naim and burn-in,I had originally decided(because my wallet is really exhausted now!) to buy the second 555 PS power supply (necessary to obtain the maximum from 555 cdp) at the end of November but now I guess it is really better made burn-in of all the components together so I have just ordered the second power supply and it will be in my home (I hope!) at the end of August (sorry Clayton, that means that if you come to my town I will only be able to offer you a nice and hot Italian pizza with a can of beer! 
  I am joking naturally!)


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> I would also like some clarification, as to the above. My real query is "do I buy the to 7N7 coverter, of await the 6SN7 converter?" I would rather not miss out on the $105 promo offer for the 7N7 converter, while Jack is kind enough to offer it.


 
   
  Saw this post a few months back from a WA6SE owner.   it says on the WA6 page "Note that the 7N7 is not compatible with WA6-SE."
   
  Am I missing something?  Have people been rolling 7n7 and 6sn7 into their WA6SE, and what exactly is the danger?  Have they performed any specific mods to do so?  
   
  I ask this mostly as someone coming from an old SinglePower Slam ppx3 which I drove w/ 7n7s and quite liked the 7n7 sound, moreso than the midgrade NOS 6sn7 tubes I tried on that amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> (sorry Clayton, that means that if you come to my town I will only be able to offer you a nice and hot Italian pizza with a can of beer!   I am joking naturally!)


 

 Apologies are not necessary because I believe that one simple pizza made in Lucca will certainly embody greater culinary finesee than a pizza thrown together in San Francisco. I know, I just had a few delivered to my work for a noontime break and it was not very good. Just a pizza of tomatoes, basil, and cheese is all I require. Oh yes, and a beer.


----------



## grokit

Pizza Margherita... the original and still the best:
   

   
  I'm hungry lol.


----------



## Clayton SF

Pizza Margherita, Liquid Fire, and Pink Floyd. Ahhhhhhhhhh. The Best.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So we've gone from a Clearasdio Statement with a Benz LP to a Clearaudio Solution with a Benz Ebony. That cracks me up, you are mortal after all!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Grokit, really sorry if I misled you, sorry, sometimes words look all alike to me.
   
  I did get a diagnosis on the missing channel.  What happened is that the wires in the Clearaudio Unify tonearm are about a thick as a human hair and in one channel the ground seperated from the barrel and had to be soldered back.  It was a trip watching the Elliot at the Tweak Shop put it all back, it was like brain surgery.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: Original posted by *mikemalter*
> 
> 
> (Clayton, if you go, please take lots of pictures; especially the food!)
> ...


 

 LUMAZ,
   
  I love Italian food and am inspired by the ideas behind Italian cooking.  Pasta is my favorite food, and I love to cook it and try out different ways to make sauce.  My next big step will be to learn to make pasta fresh.   Do you have any recipes for meatless tomato sauce and fresh pasta?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a Benz LP-S on my VPI Scoutmatser. I love Benz cartridges. I'm sure the Ebony is also terrific. There is something just very right sounding about the Benz.


 

 Skylab, I really like the VPI Scoutmaster.  I think VPI's success with turntables caused Clearaudio to stop making their triangular acyrlic turntables in favor of full plinth models.  I can see that VPI really leads the market and they are in a position to be modifying and optmizing proven models.  You have a really great turntable.  Also, I agree with you about Benz cartridges.  They are really good.  The Ebony is really just their stock model with a fancier wood encasement and more bass.  That was the big thing I noticed when I went from the Glider to the Ebony.  The high end and detail were all there, but the bottom end was more extended.  I think the LP is a perfect balance.
   
  BTW, what brush are you using?  I was using an Audioquest up until yesterday, when Elliot turned me on the the Music Hall Hunt EDA.  There is NO dust at all left on the platter when I use that brush.
   
  Also, have you ever heard of Last record treatment?  Any thoughts about it?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I told some friends at work about you and your city of Lucca and guess what! My friend Jennie's husband is married to a man from Lucca. His parents are Lucchesi who emigrated to San Francisco in the early 1900s. Her husbands name is Ippolito Lucchesi. Now why would his sur name coincidentally be Lucchesi? They visit Lucca quite often have told me that they are greeted by their Italian relatives with evenings of non-stop meals where the food just "kept on coming."
> 
> I own 3 turntables (Pro-Ject Xperience, Technics SL1200MK2, and MMF 9.1) I sometimes connect the tt in use to the Woo then to the Fi Yph phono stage.


 
  Really, THREE turntables?  Nice picture, Clayton.
   
  So what do you think about the Woo / Vinyl combination?  Is there a Woo you think works best with Vinyl?  How do you get from the phono stage to the Woo, just plug it in?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Pizza Margherita, Liquid Fire, and Pink Floyd. Ahhhhhhhhhh. The Best.


 

 X2!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





winzzz said:


> any new info bout the new woo flagship amp ?


 

 Wow, two questions about Woo amps (mine about 7n7 on a WA6SE) got buried by off-topic discussion.
   
  Look, don't mean to be a buzzkill and put on a moderator hat when I have none, but shouldn't talk of food and turntables be in the member's lounge?


----------



## Clayton SF

++  =


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Wow, two questions about Woo amps (mine about 7n7 on a WA6SE) got buried by off-topic discussion.
> 
> Look, don't mean to be a buzzkill and put on a moderator hat when I have none, but shouldn't talk of food and turntables be in the member's lounge?


 
  Why not? We all own Woo Amps and we are all uniting--right? Be it food, turntables, or a WA22 with a HUGE EML 5U4G mesh plate.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 We all are jus' havin' a little fun.
   
  But on a 7N7 note. I own a few Sylvania 7N7 and with Glenn's adapters, which I got in 2009, it has broadened the tube selection. I, however, use it on my WA22.


----------



## grokit

The way I see it is this thread has a bit of latitude because of the way the title of is is phrased. It is not for a specific Woo amp, and it is about the Woo _owners_ uniting. It certainly doesn't hurt to remind us of your question about the 7n7 on the WA6SE, quoting your original unanswered question would usually be a sufficient reminder. As to the flagship question, I would think that if anyone had any new information other than what has been stated in the past they would have come forward with it. I think all we know is monoblocks, around $8k.
   
  edit: we have even been _somewhat tolerant_ of other amps being brought up such as the Liquid Fire


----------



## Icenine2

Yesssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ++  =


----------



## Icenine2

Mikey,
   
  You need a Liquid Fire!
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> X2!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Mikey,
> 
> You need a Liquid Fire!


 



 What I am hearing after about 12 hours of brake-in is encouraging (using my HE-6 headphones). But I also got a DAC1+caps at the same time as my LF (yesterday), so by next weekend I can do some mix and match of my gears to hear what is what and compare to my WA5LE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I really like the 1/4" load plug that came with my LF and the idea I can leave it on 24/7 along with my DAC1 for the brake-in of both.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ++  =


 

 Well said, sir!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Mikey,
> 
> You need a Liquid Fire!


 

 Ha, ha.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> What I am hearing after about 12 hours of brake-in is encouraging (using my HE-6 headphones). But I also got a DAC1+caps at the same time as my LF (yesterday), so by next weekend I can do some mix and match of my gears to hear what is what and compare to my WA5LE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm really interested in how all of that shakes out SS.  Please post your impressions.  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Wow, two questions about Woo amps (mine about 7n7 on a WA6SE) got buried by off-topic discussion.
> 
> Look, don't mean to be a buzzkill and put on a moderator hat when I have none, but shouldn't talk of food and turntables be in the member's lounge?


 

 I use my turntable as a source to my Woo and I'm interested in sharing my experiences so that my other Woomates might optimize their listening experiences.  I know I have benefited by others posting how they use their turntables.
   
  And food, well that is a source for my brain and ears.  I have to feed them so I can listen to my Woo.  And, if I don't eat, I get woozy with hunger.
   
  BTW, as long as we are on the subject of sources.  What sources feed your Woo?  What Woo do you have and what tubes are you using?  Love to hear more from you.


----------



## Currawong

Please try and stay on topic guys.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Wow, two questions about Woo amps (mine about 7n7 on a WA6SE) got buried by off-topic discussion.
> 
> Look, don't mean to be a buzzkill and put on a moderator hat when I have none, but shouldn't talk of food and turntables be in the member's lounge?


 

 Questions? I've got answers!
   
  I ran 7n7's w/WA6SE last autumn. Currently on all fours with my 17" HP Notebook (rough nite, don't ask!)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Once I get in & out with a soak in tub, something to eat, will address both questions on the other side of 7...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Wow, two questions about Woo amps (mine about 7n7 on a WA6SE) got buried by off-topic discussion.
> 
> Look, don't mean to be a buzzkill and put on a moderator hat when I have none, but shouldn't talk of food and turntables be in the member's lounge?


 

 The owners thread has had a lounge like atmosphere for a long time.  Questions are rarely left hanging very long, but there is more than technical discussion here so you have to be patient.  Having said that, there certainly does seem to be more talk of food than of amps as of late.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Compared to the internet in general the atmosphere here is very positive so I think a little slack is justified.
   
  Officially the 7N7 and 6SN7 adapter sold by Jack are for the WA6 only.  The WA6SE will burn the tubes up left as is.  Owners here who use the tubes on their WA6SE do so using adapters made by a gentleman named Glenn, who can be reached here as member 2359glenn.  His adapters contain a couple of parts, mainly resistors, which make the 6SN7 safe for use in the WA6SE.  The important thing to remember is this:  it isn't the amp that is at risk, but the tubes.  You won't fry your Woo, the 7N7 or 6SN7 just lives a short life in the amp without this simple modification.
   
  edit:  I see Jack is officially pairing the 6EM7 with the WA6SE, that looks like it is new.  I talked with Glenn once about this tube, which is half of a 6SN7 and half of a 6DE7.  This might be a nice option as well, splitting the difference between the tubes (some people think the 6SN7 is too romantic sounding in these amps).  They are also dirt cheap to roll, which is always a plus.


----------



## Silent One

@ bobeau
   
  I'm back early 'cause Xcalibur255 did a great job of providing you with information from my source. I'll add, my experience with the 7n7's in my WA6SE did not make for a fair comparison. The audition of the tubes came on the heels of my buying 6SN7 tubes for my amp. And the Raytheon 6SN7W tubes were of higher quality than the GE 7n7 tubes I auditioned.
   
  In the future I hope to try and evenly matched 6SN7 v. 7n7 shootout! But in your case time is of essence, due to savings for a limited time on the adapters. While I tried hard to account for the differences in quality, I also tried a 7AF7 tube that I felt sounded better than the 7n7 during the same trial period. 
   
  That said, the 6SN7's gave me a more pleasing sonic presentation. Please make sure that if you do decide to get a premium 7n7 tube, let us know inside this thread. As, I have an open mind for exploration...
   
  Post Script:
   
  Thanks, Xcalibur255, I hadn't noticed the introduction of the 6EM7 series by Jack. Know what the 'hot' branding for this tube might be?


----------



## Silent One

_Members lounge? Too pedestrian for my taste in tea. I've always viewed the 'Unite' thread as more of a Salon. When I log off each morning, I not only leave with increased knowledge, but with greater understanding. The brilliance of this thread is that it uses the topical to get at the depth in a relaxed and efficient manner._
   
   
[size=1.6em] Salon (gathering)[/size] [size=0.8em]  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  



 


_Réunion de dames_, Abraham Bosse, 17th century.​​


  A *salon* is a gathering of people under the roof of an inspiring host, held partly to amuse one another and partly to refine taste and increase their knowledge of the participants through conversation.

 [/size]


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> _*... Woomates*_
> _*...woozy*_


 

 Mike, yah kill me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It is so easy to stray when Pizza and Liquid Fire and Pink Floyd are mentioned in the same sentence. _Burp. Sigh._
   
  Okay--Well the source for my WA22 which I've just repositioned in my system is:
   
  Lab 47 CD transport Model 4716 --> PS DLIII+Cullen Mod IV-->*WA22*.
  I also swap out the PS DLIII for the MHDT (tube). That combo is incredible, but I also like the PS DLIII for the heft it has across the board. The MHDT on the *WA22* is lighter but incredibly musical. All this does *not work with the WA2*, to my ears, it is too bright unless I use the* HD650* headphones then it just sings!
  Lalalalalala!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





winzzz said:


> any new info bout the new woo flagship amp ?


 

 Nothing outside of what a general internet search would return or Jack's carefully prepared interviews and statements. As excited as many of us are about Woo Audio's new products launch, even if I tripped over inside information, I would not allow myself to fall down on disclosure and would remain silent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike, yah kill me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wait, do you have the Balanced Havana or single stage? I've been curious about that unit...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wait, do you have the Balanced Havana or single stage? I've been curious about that unit...


 
  I have the single stage. Oh yes. When the Havana is in the mix I'm using the WA2. When the PS DLIII is performing then it is connected to the WA22.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, Xcalibur255, I hadn't noticed the introduction of the 6EM7 series by Jack. Know what the 'hot' branding for this tube might be?


 


  I don't, having no personal experience.  The general rule of thumb when dealing with lesser known tube types is to just find the oldest Sylvanias you can get your hands on.  I'd imagine the RCA made ones are good tubes too, as would Tung Sol assuming they ever made any and they aren't re-brands.
   
  edit:  the only Tung Sols I found were clearly re-branded GE tubes.  Some of the Sylvanias look like GE re-brands too, but others are actually Sylvania made.  It looks like Raytheon made these tubes too, so GE, RCA Sylvania and Raytheon are pretty much the brand choices.  I'd start with Sylvania personally, then the Raytheons.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have the single stage. Oh yes. When the Havana is in the mix I'm using the WA2. When the PS DLIII is performing then it is connected to the WA22.


 

 You must feel like a flight engineer inside your listen room... _"Ok, we've reached maximum glow, channels one & two are now live... bringing full power to the WA22... sending request for Gal Costa!"_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I don't, having no personal experience.  The general rule of thumb when dealing with lesser known tube types is to just find the oldest Sylvanias you can get your hands on.  I'd imagine the RCA made ones are good tubes too, as would Tung Sol assuming they ever made any and they aren't re-brands.


 

 That's a great rule of thumb, one that escaped me! Thanks for helping me hold onto my empty wallet..
   
  I've yet to look, except at a few menus for dinner (will cook Sunday!). But, I do know I'll be looking at the creme-de-la-creme first and then work my way backward on what I could afford. My Woo deserves the best glass I can give it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Gosh you reply fast.    I added an edit to my post.
   
  For those curious, the folks I've talked to about this tube basically say it has some of the benefits of the 6SN7 but isn't quite as refined or seductive overall..... especially in the highs.  Still sounds like an improvement over a 6DE7 family tube to me, and they are just as cheap once you get over the adapter cost.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You must feel like a flight engineer inside your listen room... _"Ok, we've reached maximum glow, channels one & two are now live... bringing full power to the WA22... sending request for Gal Costa!"_


 
  Sorry but Gal Costa is off-topic, BUT if you insist! Yes, I do feel like a flight engineer. WA2 power up; WA22 power up; WA6 power up; WA4 power up. Sonett, ZDse, Leben, Schiit...
  We have maximum glow. Lift off! Samba Rasagado. 'brigado meu amigo!
   
  .... The WA22 is currently on and I am playing vinyl--Camina Burana. I am thinking about using Glenn's 6F8G to 6SN7 Tube Adapters and dig up those Raytheon 6F8G VT-99 tubes. Those are really nice. They preceded the 6SN7s. They have a top cap.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Gosh you reply fast.    I added an edit to my post.
> 
> For those curious, the folks I've talked to about this tube basically say it has some of the benefits of the 6SN7 but isn't quite as refined or seductive overall..... especially in the highs.  Still sounds like an improvement over a 6DE7 family tube to me, and they are just as cheap once you get over the adapter cost.


 


  Are you addressing the 7n7 or 6EM tubes?


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## Xcalibur255

I was addressing 6EM7 tubes.  The 7n7 should be very similar to the 6SN7 considering they are almost the exact same tube electrically.  Such is my understanding at least.  Perhaps the reason they don't measure up in your experience is due to differences in vintage.  We tend to handpick the best 6SN7 tubes because there is so much written about which ones are good, but if you just plucked some 7n7 out of the pot it may have been a later vintage which is equivalent to a later 6SN7GTB and thus doesn't measure up.  Just a thought.


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## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The owners thread has had a lounge like atmosphere for a long time.  Questions are rarely left hanging very long, but there is more than technical discussion here so you have to be patient.  Having said that, there certainly does seem to be more talk of food than of amps as of late.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 You can also use the 6DN7 in the WA6-SE with a adapter without the resistor. The 6DN7 is similar to the 6EM7 but the driver triode 1 in the 6DE7 
   has a gain of 64 and the 6DN7 has a gain of 22.5
   I rather have lower gain and have the nasty sounding volume control turned up more so most of it is out of the circuit.


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## Xcalibur255

*facepalm*  It was the 6DN7 I was thinking of the entire time when I made my comments about half 6SN7 and half 6DE7.  Thank you for correcting me Glenn.  Thankfully I didn't mislead anybody since the only difference appears to be the gain.  It seems Jack favors the 6EM7 because it is higher gain, since he mentions increased output.


----------



## Xcalibur255

As promised here is my review of the four Sylvania 6SN7 tubes I've talked about here in the past.  These are purely my listening impressions using my gear, and their performance in the WA6 may not be the same as in another amp such as a WA22 for example.  The primary purpose is to describe the differences amongst the tubes which appear to share the same type of 3-hole style plate design, whose price and value seems to fluctuate wildly these days based on the reputation of the 3-hole plate Bad Boy Sylvania and Chrome Dome.  It also compares the 6SN7W to the Bad Boy, which are both highly sought after and well regarded tubes. 
   
  With the exception of the 6SN7Ws I have two pairs of all of these tubes (don't ask me why I bought two pairs of the GTAs because I don't know myself) and can verify both pairs sound the same in each case to rule out mis-identification of a type of tube or major variance in two tubes which appear physically identical.  Below are a few photos of the tubes, arranged in the order I've reviewed them starting from the left.  That order is:
   
  1) 1952 Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome top long plate (3-hole plate style) (known as the "Chrome Dome")
  2) 195x Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7W chrome top military plate (2-hole plate style)
  3) 1953 Sylvania 6SN7GTA chrome top (3-hole plate style)
  4) 1951 Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7GT clear top side getter (3-hole plate style) (known as the "Bad Boy") (these are typically 1952, but this pair is from 1951.... I also own a 1952 pair which is identical in appearance and sonics)
   
  Note:  the order is reversed for image 2. I did not re-arrange them when taking the shot from the other direction.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*<Part One>*
   
*'52 Sylvania 6SN7GT, 3-hole plate, metal base style long plates, shortened base (visible bottom mica), short glass, top getter with getter flashing covering most of the tube glass, polished rectangular micas, etching on top of glass*

_(henceforth referred to as the "Long Plates" throughout these postings)_

 I'll start by saying that, of the four tubes present in this write-up, these are my favorites.  Both because of their innate performance and because of the amazingly good synergy they have with my headphones.  Of the 15 pairs of 6SN7 tubes I now own, I consider these my second favorite directly behind the black glass round plate Tung Sol.  Is it on the same playing field as that tube?  Perhaps overall but it falls short in some key areas and doesn't really have the "magic" of the Tung Sol.
   
 While it doesn't sound as special as the BGRP TS per se, it does sound clear, balanced, resolving and immersive judged on its own merits.  If I had to list one trouble spot it would be the bass, because there simply isn't very much of it.  It goes deep and hits hard when needed, but the overall quantity and weight is lacking compared to many other tubes.  What bass *is* there, however, is fantastic.  It is lightning fast, taut and controlled all of which helps preserve the presence of bass notes and lines in the music.  This tube gets away with being bass light because the quality of what is there is so good it holds its place in the music.  I rarely get the feeling of not having any bass with this tube, it just doesn't ever dominate the presentation.
   
 Really that can be said of the entire spectrum, as this tube is wonderfully balanced throughout the entire frequency range IMO.  The midrange is free of major coloration and feels neither recessed or dominant.  It has a striking sense of purity to it while still reminding you it is a vacuum tube.  It does have some of that trademark Sylvania sweetness (the best iteration of the "sweet" Sylvania sound IMO), which is to be expected since we're talking tubes here, but by tube standards it isn't enough to make the music feel colored.  

 Soundstage is good, not impressive in its width or depth, but it has great focus and a precise stereo image.  Notes and instruments are given clearly defined sense of space in all directions, and this focus holds up during busy passages.  Only when the volume gets loud does signs of strain appear, and the amp itself might be the larger factor in this.  

 PRaT is good overall, but I wouldn't call this a terribly dynamic tube.  It doesn't underperform in this area, but won't offer the big presentation of a greyglass RCA or WGT Raytheon for example nor can it match the deceptive speed and power of the BGRP Tung Sol.  All of the other three Sylvania tubes in this review have better macro dynamics overall.  This tube's dynamic performance is hard to describe though, because again the great level of control means a very realistic sense of "snap" which speaks very well for PRaT, but the overall dynamic presentation of the tube is on the polite side.  I suppose you could say it speaks softly but carries a big stick.... which actually describes what I'm hearing very well I think.  It's not a "big" sound but with the right dynamic change in a song they are capable of surprising you.  If the music is fast paced these tubes have no trouble keeping up.  

 Ultimately it is a sense of fine balance that prevails, no aspect of this tubes performance ever seems to really outshine any other aspect, it just sounds great and imparts a sense of harmony with the music.  Overall detail and clarity is very good, second only to the BGRP Tung Sol and is the best of the Sylvanias here.  The only issue here is I often notice certain sounds being placed very far "back" in the sounstage to the point where they can be lost if you are not listening with focus.  Everything is there, with first rate realism and instrument timbre, but sometimes these tubes make you work a bit harder as a listener to pick up some of the more subtle parts of a recording.  

 Instruments sound utterly terrific, be it strings, woodwinds, or most importantly piano.  This is one of only a few tubes I've experienced that really get piano right.  Well, mostly right, as I could do with a bit more weight to the low notes but this is a minor quibble. The notes have the proper bite and speed to preserve the leading edge of the hammer strike, and most tubes in my collection cannot pull this off.  Piano comes alive and feels real with these tubes, making this one of only three tubes I've heard that achieve this (the others being the BGRP Tung Sol and the VT-231 Raytheon with ladder plates).  I also particularly enjoyed violins and acoustic guitar on these tubes, as well as woodwinds such as flutes and clarinets. Despite the overall leanness from the light bass these instruments never sounded thin or hollow, coming across with all the body they are supposed to have.

 By now you're probably thinking I forgot to talk about one aspect of this tube's tone, right?  Gotta save the best for last as they say.  The most amazing thing about this tube, IMO, is its treble response.  It simply has a beautiful top end.  It's a mild treble for sure, not calling attention to itself, but the important thing here is what it is not.  Namely it is not dull, flat, rolled off, muted, or dark sounding in any way.  Yet, at the same time, it is also never harsh, bright, edgy, shouty, or hot sounding either.  It has the trademark Sylvania top end:  clean, airy and clearly resolved with a touch of sweetness, but at the same time has a subdued way of presenting itself that doesn't call attention to the treble range the way many Sylvania tubes tend to do.  I think the Bad Boys also have a beautiful treble presentation, but this aspect of that tube stands out and draws your attention specifically to that frequency range.  It's how the treble range feels special *without* standing out that really makes the Long Plates unique IMO.  It walks a very fine line and does so masterfully, resulting in the best and most natural sounding top end I've ever heard in a tube, save for possibly the BGRP Tung Sol.  

 Now I should probably remind everybody at this point which headphones I listen to, the AKG K701.  Perhaps the treble wouldn't seem so brilliant on cans which don't exhibit the dry and thin/bright sonic signature of the K701, but these tubes are so nicely balanced I think they would work with other headphones as well, save for ones that already have a dark tonal balance.  But, as far as the K701 itself is concerned, I think these might be the perfect tubes for them, a bold statement for sure since we're talking about a bass light headphone and bass light tubes but bear with me for a moment.  Many folks seem to go about adapting this headphone for their tastes by adding things.  More bass, more meat to the sound to correct the thin and light tone they have.  And it never works because people end up turning the phones into something they are not and it shows.  What is interesting about this combo is that it achieves success by doing the opposite:  rather than adding to the places where the K701 lacks, these tubes seem to take away from the areas where the K701 has too much.  The result is a balanced sound that retains the overall character of the headphone while downplaying the things about it which make it hard to become immersed in the music.  Yes, the bass is light but it is so fast, taut and controlled that it keeps a good presence in the music.  The sound has a light touch and never sounds heavy or feels really dynamic, but it no longer imparts the feeling of being thin in the midrange and restores a sense of natural realism to the human vocal range.  The treble no longer dominates the presentation but the beautiful sense of air and sparkle that defines the K701 is still present.  In other words it just sounds natural and better balanced.  These tubes just work for the K701.  At least to my ears they do.  Which is why this tube is now a personal favorite of mine and has become my "standard" tube for my amp while I'm not rolling for fun.

 Finally, a bit of background on this tube is probably in order:  according to the seller and some reasearch these tubes are the direct descendant of the Sylvania metal base tubes which are so prized.  They lack the strong dynamics and "big" sound of that tube but instead gain a greater sense of refinement and finesse.  They are supposedly made with the same plates and on the same tooling, which is what makes them so different from other Sylvania chrome tops.  The only giveaway I know of is the shorter plastic base which allows the bottom mica plate to show above it when looking at the tube at eye level.  I'm not certain if this base type is unique to this tube or not (I know it reappears on the GTB tubes, but it may be unique amongst tubes of this particular time period), but it is what I have to go on at this time.  I believe the reason I get such ho-hum reactions when talking about this tube is because people assume I'm talking about the "regular" chrome top Sylvania which I'll be writing about below.  I think these are a bit more rare and certainly are more special, but as always with tubes it is hard to be certain of anything.  I believe this tube is what is referred to as the "true" Chrome Dome Sylvania in the Reference 6SN7 Thread, but none of the picture links in that thread work anymore so I can't confirm that.  Regardless of reputation, though, they have certainly made their reputation with me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

*<Part Two>*
   
*Early '50s era Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7W, military spec, short glass, 2-hole plate, top getter with heavy getter flashing, round top mica, rectangular bottom mica, etching on top of glass*

_(referred to throughout this writeup as the "W's")_

 The W's have a strongly positive reputation, which is part of the reason I bought them.  The other part being pure curiosity combined with affordable opportunity.  Amongst the tubes here these are the only ones that don't have the 3-hole plate design.  They are 2-hole plate, and moreover, are the ruggedized military version featuring the round top mica and extra support rod between the micas.

 So how do they sound?  In a word:  fine.  The trouble I have with these tubes is they don't really impress me in any way.  They have the trademark Sylvania sound overall, albeit with a bit of extra midbass and midrange presence that lends a slightly more husky sound overall.  Treble is good, but a bit peaky in some instances.  It isn't bright though and rarely results in sibilance, there just seems to be a bit of a peak in the lower treble going on.  Despite not being rolled off on the top end I could never quite shake the impression of a slightly veiled sound overall.  There is also some midrange emphasis that tends to bring vocals forward a bit, which helps keep vocals sounding clear and resolved despite my complaints about veiled sound overall.  On the plus side is a nice big soundstage, probably the widest one of the four tubes here.  They also seem to image certain sounds in a song a bit differently than I'm accustomed to within that soundstage, resulting in an often interesting and fresh presentation of songs I'm used to hearing a certain way.  

 Dynamics were also a plus.  As the volume goes higher they take on a "big" sound which lends weight and slam to the music.  Bass is better than the '52 Long Plates  in sheer quantity and weight, but that's about it.  This tubes reputation for strong bass doesn't play out with me.  I wouldn't call it bass shy, but it isn't bass heavy.  I can think of a number of tubes which have a stronger bottom end.  More importantly the quality of that bass is not the best.  It is often loose and slow sounding, lacking the taut, controlled presentation of the Long Plates and the GTAs.  The Bad Boys also do better here, but not by much.  It seems to struggle progressively more the lower the frequency, with the bottom octave becoming a sloppy mess.  I really have to wonder if this experience (and my experience with many tubes with bass issues) is unique to my use of them in the WA6.  Relieved of power output duties this problem may not exist anymore, but I can only report my experiences as I'm hearing them in my amp.  I feel I should point this possibility out though to be sure I'm not writing anything potentially misleading about any of these tubes' bass capabilities.  

 On the plus side I did consistently note good weight to deep bass notes, with the best sense of visceral slam of all four of the tubes.  It just comes with poor control, almost to the point of note overhang at times.  The Bad Boys do better in the upper ranges, but I think the W's edge them out for presence at the very bottom.  Neither is capable of preserving the timbre of instruments in this range so it's purely a matter of which is rattling your head more in the end.  The midbass presents fairly well and the control seems to deteriorate the lower you go, so overall bass performace feels inconsistent depending upon which range the music is occupying the most.  

 The biggest problem with these tubes is focus.  They just seem to lack clarity compared to the Long Plates or the Bad Boys.  This focus issue affects the tube at both ends of the spectrum and into the lower and upper midrange a bit as well.  It's not that detail isn't present, it is, but there is a very slight sense of fine detail being smeared that hurts the realism and immersion into the music.  It is especially present in cymbals or whenever the recording becomes very layered.  These tubes just struggle to maintain note separation and don't preserve the timbre or bite of "fast" sounds like guitar string plucks or piano hammer strikes.  That last one is a sore point for me especially.  These tubes just don't cut it for piano, between their bass problems and inability to resolve fast transients well they simply cannot do this difficult instrument justice.  

 Overall they are a nice and pretty balanced sounding tube.  You could do far worse for sure, but compared to the Long Plates and the Bad Boys I found it difficult to really get into them because they just lack that final bit of realism and were always reminding me that I was listening to a recording.  If it sounds like I'm hating on these tubes, I'm not, as they are a nice listen for sure, I just have a hard time connecting with them after experiencing the amazing clarity and resolving nature of tubes like the '52 Long Plate or a Black Glass Tung Sol.


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## Xcalibur255

*<Part Three>*
   
*'53 Sylvania 6SN7GTA (also appears as a 6SN7GT prior to '53), 3-hole plate, chrome top with moderate getter flashing, short glass, full base, polished rectangular top and bottom mica, etching on top of glass*

_(referred to throughout this writeup as the "GTAs")_

 As is written in the reference 6SN7 thread there are "two versions of the Sylvania 6SN7GT and GTA...... one hugely good sounding and the other not so much."  I can only assume this tube represents the "not so much" because it is a polarizing mix of good and bad from my listening experience.  This was one of my biggest motivators in writing this, because this tube and the '52 Long Plate I've already written about look very similar overall.  In fact a lot of the chrome top Sylvanias can be hard to dinstinguish from each other.  Also, there are many sellers out there who will attach the 'Bad Boy' monikor to any Sylvania tube with 3-hole plates and I feel it is important people know that these 3-hole tubes do NOT all sound the same with some of them being rather mediocre overall.  These GTAs are the poster child for this public service announcement.

 This tube actually makes a good first impression with the things it does well.  Tops on that list would be its bass, which is quite good for the most part, but still not competitive with the best tubes out there.  It comes somewhat close to being as good as the '52 Long Plates in some parts of the range, but the upshot is it brings to the table the quantity that tube lacks.  If anything this tube presents itself as bass heavy; there is real weight and slam on tap here when called for and the control never faulters making this the best performance aspect of this tube by far.  The only other good mark I can give this tube is in overall clarity and resolution, which is on the good side in general but definitely nothing special.  It is a reasonably fast and dynamic tube as well, though it "runs out of gas" when pushed hard by the music by my perception.

 Tonally speaking the midrange tones, especially the lower midrange, carry notes with a slightly extended sense of reverb, which more often than not sounds nice to my ears.  Now, where things start to falter is in presentation and balance.  This tube has a strange frequency reponse, way off from the norm for a Sylvania tube.  At once it comes off as sounding dark, with a rolled-off treble and very sucked out lower treble in particular.  Yet, despite this, they are occasionally prone to edginess and sibilance as well, so depending upon what you are listening to they can sound dark and bright all at the same time oddly enough.  This only shows up occassionally though, and the dominant trait is that of a dark and subdued treble.  There seems to be very deep dips in frequency response in several places, mostly in the upper midrange and lower treble range.  These dips are sharp and narrow band so they only rear their heads with the right types of listening material, but their effect on the overall range and presentation is omnipresent and negatively so.  The treble response seems to recover in time to form a small peak to cause the sibilance issues, only to drop off again and rob the tube of any sense of air or space in the treble range as a whole.  

 Which leads us into problem number two:  the GTA's small and narrow soundstage.  Because of the top end issues, the overall soundstage feels closed in, especially in width.  This also causes imaging problems with notes and instruments seeming to stack on top of each other rather than occupying their own space.  The stereo imaging comes off as slightly weird in general most of the time, like nothing has room to breathe.  

 While there are no major problems with the midrange, it is a dark kind of sweet sounding due to coloration from the bass region and overall it doesn't sound very natural.  Singers' voices often have a woody quality that sounds unrealistic.  With instrumentals the midrange feels colored by the octave below it, giving a tiny bit of that "wind blowing through a cave opening" kind of overtone coloration to some notes.  Note separation in the midrange tones can sound muddy when things become busy as well.  

 Overall not the best tubes out there.  Certainly not terrible but there are better for sure.  I imagine it outperforms many of the GTB tubes in terms of detail and clarity overall, but whether or not the tonal issues are worth it is a personal choice.  I did find them to be okay for piano.  There is some obvious coloration and overhang in the lower mids which detracts from the crispness of notes in that range and the top end feels a bit muted due to the treble issues, but overall their bass performance helps them do fairly well with the instrument.

 All in all it isn't a bad tube really, it just feels flawed compared to the company it is keeping here.


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## Xcalibur255

*<Part Four>*
   
*'52 Sylvania "Bad Boy" JAN-CHS-6SN7GT, 3-hole plate, bottom side getter (clear top), medium glass, shiny rectangular micas, etching on side of glass*

_(referred to through this writeup as the "Bad Boys" or "BBs")_

 This was the first 6SN7 tube I really fell in love with, and thus I've saved it for last in this round up.  Once upon a time I would have crowned it the clear champion in a contest like this, but the Bad Boys are now forced to share the spotlight with a few other worthy tubes.  Not to imply that the Bad Boy isn't an incredible tube, because it is, and we're about to spend a bit of time exploring why along with a couple of areas where I feel it can be outclassed.

 I think the greatest strength of the Bad Boys is that they successfully walk a middle of the road path in their presentation that can please a large number of people without being boring and while imparting that special sense of magic to the music they are reproducing.  They don't offer a "big, bold" sound the way some tubes do, nor do they possess the amazing inner detail and finesse of the BGRP Tung Sol, but they do many things better than most other tubes and offer an emotionally engaging listening experience.  

 Tonally, I find the BBs to empasize the lower and middle midrange areas a bit, resulting in a nice and mild sound.  This small empahsis seems to come in just below the human vocal range for the most part and results in a nice highlighting of background instruments and certain ambience sounds in a recording.  The downside is it has the effect of making the vocal range sound slightly recessed at times.  I'm definitely not asserting that the BBs lack vocal clarity, but they seem to let vocals slip a bit back into the mix which in turn sometimes makes me want to turn the volume up to try and bring those vocals back out.  Aside from that the midrange is a revealing and resolving one, somewhat sweet sounding and full of detail and texture information.  

 These tubes present themselves as a bit more "dense" sounding than the Long Plates, which to me isn't better or worse..... just different, but perhaps not a totally ideal match to the natural presentation of my headphones.  This also has the effect of adding a bit of extra body to some instruments, such as violins.  It adds character to those instruments, but there is a fine line being walked and sometimes it gets crossed resulting in a slightly unrealistic timbre.

 The treble is open and airy, with no major peaks or emphasis.  Overall it is a bit on the laid back side, but it will definitely make itself known with the right material.  It is textboox Sylvania, and no doubt this tube helped to establish the Sylvania reputation for beautiful treble.  Cymbals have a lovely and textured sparkle without sounding highlighted, edgy or empahsized.  With the right music this aspect of the BBs can dazzle you.  

 Bass is decent overall, but probably the weakest aspects of the Bad Boys.  I have no issue with the quantity or weight/impact, but it isn't particularly fast or articulate.  It's not bad, just not impressive from a tube that *is* impressive in other ways, making the bass feel like a weak point.  The BBs have the strongest and most present bass of all the tubes here overall, but the the GTAs have them beat on control without giving up much slam to them.  They do have the W's beat hands down for bass IMO, but direct comparison to the '52 Long Plates makes them sound loose and not under control from around 80hz down with the problem worsening the lower you go.  The BBs are not as bad as the W's are in this respect though.  A good Tung Sol or ladder plate style Raytheon (such as the VT-231 or WGT Brown Base) will show the BBs a thing or two when it comes to bass control, but they do well enough to not get in their own way and the bass does have good drive and presence.

 In the oh so critical department of reproducing piano I have to give them a fail sadly.  They do.......okay, but there is no crispness to hammer strikes and in the end they fail to bring the instrument to life.  Why they come off as sounding soft with piano is very odd, because I don't get that impression from them with any other instrument except for very demanding low bass notes like those from an electric bass guitar or a double bass where signal control just isn't sufficient to render the note properly and you can't even identify the instrument you are hearing.  It's not just on the bottom end either, piano sounds blunted all around including the top range.  Why this is so is mystifying to me, as it only affects this instrument in my experience.

 Overall detail and resolution is very good.  I think the '52 Long Plates beat them on sheer detail and clarity though.  The Long Plates just have an amazing sense of focus that puts them ahead, and while the BBs definitely outperform the W's I still have the same complaint as I did with the W's above:  in direct comparison with the Long Plates there is just that last bit of focus missing which prevents some instruments from sounding real to me.  Of the four tubes here the BBs come in solid second on the detail front, and are more resolving than most of my other tubes in general.
   
 Soundstage is a big highlight of this tube, but not because it is impressive in its expansiveness (though it occasionally is).  They throw a wide and deep soundstage, but not the widest or deepest.  What makes them so great in this regard is how they bring the ambience of a recording to life with their holographic stereo imaging.  Only the BGRP Tung Sol does this better IMO, with the BB trading the BGRP's sense of preciseness for a greater sense of euphoria.  The BB midrange also lends a hand with this to bring out subtle sounds and textures, making the soundstage feel like an epic landscape of little nuanced details.  The effect is very immersive and pulls you into the listening experience.  

 On the dynamics and PRaT front things do not fare quite as well.  I wouldn't call them slow, but they're definitely relaxed in their overall presentation.  The BBs like to chill, never wanting to rush.  If the music demands it they will hustle just enough to keep the pace engaging, but their forte is immersing you in slower tempo music.  There is such a thing as a tube being so laid back in terms of PRaT that it hurts their musicality, and I would say the BBs manage to avoid this in all but the worst case scenarios such as fast tempo rock or metal.  They are not head banging tubes though for sure.

 In the end it becomes a toss up between the Long Plates and the BBs in my mind.  Where as the former is about laser precise focus and realism, the latter is about atmosphere and ambiance and sinking into your chair:  immersed.  Forced to pick one I must echo what I stated a few posts up:  the '52 Long Plates get the nod from me as the best. If the Bad Boys didn't fail so badly at reproducing piano I might give them the nod, but this is such a sore point for me that I can't let it slide.  In the end I think these tubes have different enough characters that they are both winners in my mind; just for different moods and to a lesser extent different listening material.  Both the Long Plates and the BBs are amongst the most resolving and involving tubes I've had the pleasure of listening to and they stand amongst the most elite and best performing 6SN7 tubes ever made.  

 While I think all of these tubes are a good listen, only the Long Plates and the BBs were an emotionally driven one, which says it all if you ask me.

 And with that, my thanks for reading this far!  I hope you've enjoyed my take on these tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike, yah kill me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So you are a CD man mostly?  When you do vinyl, do you plug directly into your Woo?  Which Woo in your collection does the best with vinyl.


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## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> *facepalm*  It was the 6DN7 I was thinking of the entire time when I made my comments about half 6SN7 and half 6DE7.  Thank you for correcting me Glenn.  Thankfully I didn't mislead anybody since the only difference appears to be the gain.  It seems Jack favors the 6EM7 because it is higher gain, since he mentions increased output.


 

 A 6SN7 has a gain of 20 the 6DE7 has a gain of 17.5 I think lower gain is better unless you need it if your sorce has low output.


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## Clayton SF

Speaking of Glenn and his adapters. You've inspired me to setup my WA22 tonight as it was when this photo was taken last year. The rectifier is a NOS RK60 tube with Raytheon VT-99 as bookends. It looks like a monster, heats up fierce (at least it seems that way) and produces a nice over-all sound. My transformers hum just a little bit but not enough to distract me or be concerned. I have some NOS Mullard GZ34s that chatter more than this RK60.


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## Xcalibur255

Whew..... when I pasted the text in none of the formatting stuck.  Well, it is up now.  Feedback, positive or negative, is welcome as are questions.  I've never really done something like this before so it was an interesting experience to write it up.


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## Clayton SF

Thanks, Xcalibur255! I shall read it later tonight or tomorrow. A four-part tome; very impressive.


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## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> *<Part Four>*
> 
> *'52 Sylvania "Bad Boy" JAN-CHS-6SN7GT, 3-hole plate, bottom side getter (clear top), medium glass, shiny rectangular micas, etching on side of glass*
> 
> ...


 
  X,
   
  Your 4 part writeup of Sylvania 6SN7 tubes is really great.  Thank you very much for the work you did.  I have been wanting to expand the types of driver tubes for my WA22, and your series will really help me.  Looks like you put a lot of work into it.


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## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Speaking of Glenn and his adapters. You've inspired me to setup my WA22 tonight as it was when this photo was taken last year. The rectifier is a NOS RK60 tube with Raytheon VT-99 as bookends. It looks like a monster, heats up fierce (at least it seems that way) and produces a nice over-all sound. My transformers hum just a little bit but not enough to distract me or be concerned. I have some NOS Mullard GZ34s that chatter more than this RK60.


 

 Nice photo.  What are your power tubes in this setup?
   
  Also, when listening to vinyl on your WA22, do you have a favorite tube profile?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Nice photo.  What are your power tubes in this setup?
> Also, when listening to vinyl on your WA22, do you have a favorite tube profile?


 

 My favorite WA22 tube setup when listening to vinyl is:
  Stock GE 6AS7GA
  CBS 6SN7GTB clear top (they look like Xcalibur255's Sylvania tube except it has 2-hole plate)
  CV1863 / 5Z4G
   
  Just for you a photo:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> As promised here is my review of the four Sylvania 6SN7 tubes I've talked about here in the past.  These are purely my listening impressions using my gear, and their performance in the WA6 may not be the same as in another amp such as a WA22 for example.  The primary purpose is to describe the differences amongst the tubes which appear to share the same type of 3-hole style plate design, whose price and value seems to fluctuate wildly these days based on the reputation of the 3-hole plate Bad Boy Sylvania and Chrome Dome.  It also compares the 6SN7W to the Bad Boy, which are both highly sought after and well regarded tubes.
> 
> With the exception of the 6SN7Ws I have two pairs of all of these tubes (don't ask me why I bought two pairs of the GTAs because I don't know myself) and can verify both pairs sound the same in each case to rule out mis-identification of a type of tube or major variance in two tubes which appear physically identical.  Below are a few photos of the tubes, arranged in the order I've reviewed them starting from the left.  That order is:
> 
> ...


 


_Bravo!  Bravo!!  Bravo!!!_
   
  Well done, Xcalibur255! I thoroughly enjoyed your tremendous effort. I was dining when you posted this review. Upon clearing the table and logging back in, at first glance I raced to freezer to take out my finest! With each and every spoonful I savored, the same could be said for each and every paragraph you wrote... sheer delight!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Bravo!  Bravo!!  Bravo!!!_
> 
> Well done, Xcalibur255! I thoroughly enjoyed your tremendous effort. I was dining when you posted this review. Upon clearing the table and logging back in, at first glance I raced to freezer to take out my finest! With each and every spoonful I savored, the same could be said for each and every paragraph you wrote... sheer delight!


 

 I don't eat dairy, and now I want some.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I don't eat dairy, and now I want some.


 


  Once or twice a month, I'll delight in a pint just after midnight with the lights out under the glow of my Woo and whatever soft female vocals I have queued.


----------



## Clayton SF

I just had some homemade Meyer Lemon Ice Cream. Now I want some chocolate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Whew..... when I pasted the text in none of the formatting stuck.  Well, it is up now.  Feedback, positive or negative, is welcome as are questions.  I've never really done something like this before so it was an interesting experience to write it up.


 

 So, in other words, you trusted us and allowed our interests to bring out the best in you. Well done!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Whew..... when I pasted the text in none of the formatting stuck.  Well, it is up now.  Feedback, positive or negative, is welcome as are questions.  I've never really done something like this before so it was an interesting experience to write it up.


 

 Xcalibur, I really enjoyed the write up.  Your description of how your tubes portray sound and the machinations of your sonic sense offered to me a comfortable viewpoint familiar with my own.   It was as if you were in my mind describing sonic qualities the way I hear and describe them to myself.  
   
  I don't have any tube gear right now.  I had tube power amps in the late 80's and early 90's but never changed any tubes. Then I went solid state.   Soon I hope to pick something from one of the many tube lines available.
   
  For me all you tube guys are like the Navy Seals of the audiophile world or something like that.  Your'e like the audiophiles of the audiophiles.  It's just amazing the patience you tube guys have with your tubes and really how intimate you guys are with the sound of every one of your tubes or tube sets. and not only that but you guys know what tubes sound good not just in which amps but also with which set of headphones. It's kind of amazing and intimidating to witness when your a guy like me who knows zilch about tubes.   I don't know where you guys get the patience except that is it pure passion driven and heightened advanced listening skills that keeps you exploring onwards.


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Once or twice a month, I'll delight in a pint just after midnight with the lights out under the glow of my Woo and whatever soft female vocals I have queued.


 
   
   
  I am on your same wavelength Silent One, I too have symbolic rituals for various time of day or (mainly) night when I embark on a listening session and that often segues and influences into what I ultimately listen to.
   
  Most recently I have discovered Mexican Coca Cola, it is the "REAL" real thing as it contains no High Fructose Corn Syrup (one of major catalysts in the current decline of civilization as we know it, IMHO, but I digress) but contains only 100% Cane Sugar. This is how it used to be made until they started the "New Coke" campaign and then reintroduced "Coke Classic" around eight months later. That is when they quietly made the switch, a brilliant marketing strategy no doubt but somehow I still feel it was morally wrong. 
   
  Anyway so since they are hard to come by and not inexpensive, I only drink them as a special event and savor every moment, although on those nights I find myself strangely digging back into the early-mid seventies archives...
   
  I know a member posted earlier that this thread sometimes does_ seem_ to derail a bit but I feel that by sharing our other diverse and often complimentary interests as they pertain to our system and listening habits only tends to bring us all closer together. 
   
  Now Jack needs to give us some more info as to what he has up his sleeve!!


----------



## vinyllp33

Also while we are in the sultry female vocal genre have you heard Julie London "At Home"?
   
  Most audiophile know "Cry Me a River" but this is a small jazz combo album, expertly recorded live in her actual Living Room in very nicely balanced Stereo ca.1959. 
   
  I have the Japanese 24 bit K2 disc and it sounds much better than my mint 1960 first pressing vinyl on Liberty, PM me if you want a copy, it is sadly out-of-print but is in a class by itself, pure honey! 
   
  Don't waist your time or money with the domestic reissue, no magic to be found there; My friend burned be a copy and even he could tell the difference on an iPod with the stock Apple earbuds, no joke. 
   
  No since the digital master was done in 24bit and is is in the vault, bring on the 24/96 downloads, the time seems right.


----------



## jude

Pizza, ice cream, cola...
   
  Please, guys, let's steer this thread back on topic.


----------



## vinyllp33

Very sorry to have contributed to the diversion, maybe someone can start a thread in the Member's Lounge where Woo owner's can discuss these subjects in the appropriate forum. 
   
  It just seems that compared to other threads that Woo owner's also tend to pursue and indulge in other specialty hobbies and seem to seek out the finest quality in many other aspects of their/our lives. 
   
  BTW your review video review of the new Stax flagship coupled with the WES was most awesome, I know you must be quite a busy man but if you could please post some detailed impressions of a couple of the recordings that you used in your evaluation.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> As promised here is my review of the four Sylvania 6SN7 tubes I've talked about here in the past.  These are purely my listening impressions using my gear, and their performance in the WA6 may not be the same as in another amp such as a WA22 for example.  The primary purpose is to describe the differences amongst the tubes which appear to share the same type of 3-hole style plate design, whose price and value seems to fluctuate wildly these days based on the reputation of the 3-hole plate Bad Boy Sylvania and Chrome Dome.  It also compares the 6SN7W to the Bad Boy, which are both highly sought after and well regarded tubes.


 
   
  Very nicely done Xcalibur, thank you so much. This is quite a thorough and well-written comparison and I am glad you posted it here, all of us Woosies should feel honored!
   
  But it is such an excellent reference that it may warrant a thread of its very own, not only so it doesn't get buried in the "shuffle" of this fast-moving all-Woo thread, but because there are other non-Woo 6SN7 users that could benefit from your experience with these as well.
   
  I was wondering if you had an opinion on the two vs. three rivet versions. I have the two-rivet version, it looks like your Bad Boy otherwise except it is blacker around the base of the glass:
   
 
   
  When I was doing some rudimentary research on them, I came across this statement over at AudioTubes.com and was wondering if you are in general agreement or not, and if you had anything to add:
   
  "A side note about Bad Boys, there were versions with 2 rivet holes in each plate, and versions with 3 holes. Both types sound identical. Don't fall for the bogus story that only the 3 rivet hole types are the true "Bad Boys"! You will miss out on some great sound from the 2 hole type, since the 3 hole versions are more difficult to find, more expensive elsewhere, and don't sound any different!"
   
  http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm


----------



## grokit

Glass bottles rock, whether they are used as NOS audio tubes for our Woos or as a container for certain classic carbonated beverages. I prefer classic glass tubes to metallic or plastic ones, and to be corn syrup-free as well (sorry!).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> Very sorry to have contributed to the diversion, maybe someone can start a thread in the Member's Lounge where Woo owner's can discuss these subjects in the appropriate forum.
> 
> It just seems that compared to other threads that Woo owner's also tend to pursue and indulge in other specialty hobbies and seem to seek out the finest quality in many other aspects of their/our lives.


 
   
  Well that is how I was able to meet some Head-Fi people face to face--by discussing and bonding on specialties other than Woo amps. Maybe we should start a new thread and call it Woo Audio Owners Unite with Ice Cream, Pizza, Coca-cola, Liquid Fire, and Julie London. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway--back to Woo amps. I own a WA4 and really don't know of anyone else on this planet, except maybe Jack, who might own one. It's an interesting amp if you've ever seen one. The one I bought is serial #2 and I am owner #4. It is stuffed with Black Gate Caps and sounds absolutely BIG. Big sound (I have never been very good with similes). Has anyone every listened to a WA4. Its headphone impedance is 8-800 ohms and frequency response is 18 Hz - 40 KHz, -2dB. It does sound it. Not that I can hear 18 Hz to 40 KHz, mind you.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vinyllp33 said:


> I am on your same wavelength Silent One, I too have symbolic rituals for various time of day or (mainly) night when I embark on a listening session and that often segues and influences into what I ultimately listen to.
> 
> Most recently I have discovered Mexican Coca Cola, it is the "REAL" real thing as it contains no High Fructose Corn Syrup (one of major catalysts in the current decline of civilization as we know it, IMHO, but I digress) but contains only 100% Cane Sugar. This is how it used to be made until they started the "New Coke" campaign and then reintroduced "Coke Classic" around eight months later. That is when they quietly made the switch, a brilliant marketing strategy no doubt but somehow I still feel it was morally wrong.
> 
> ...


 

 Mornin' vinyllp33 ~
   
  On symbolic rituals; making time for oneself, I absolutely agree 100%! I feel one of the best attributes of my _WA 6 Special Edition_ amp is "Ceremony." I'm reminded of the steps I take to enjoy a quality loose tea. The steps (ritual) are designed to ensure relaxation - it's built-in! In fact, by the time you finish the preparation for tea, you're already headed fast down the road to relaxation even before you start indulging. Plus, anticipation can do wonders for satisfying pleasure.
   
  Same goes for my Woo. I respect getting the amp properly warmed, not 'cycling' the amp, making the effort to have a listening session without trivial interruptions/distractions. Either I'll commit or I'll wait another night or two. My sessions appear more rewarding when dedicated. Among my non-audiophile family & friends, the ceremony seems to get lost in translation. Many of them have never seen a vacuum tube amplifier, so I share photographs. When asked why do I have one, I'll explain including the practices I get to indulge in with a tube amp.
   
  And the replies that usually come back? _"Oh, why don't you just get a solid-state amp, so you won't have to worry about the..."  (at which point, Silent One lowers his head but not without shaking it first in disbelief!)_




   
  Your comment about the thread getting a bit derailed was well stated. This thread fosters the sharing of knowledge and brings about understanding just in a rather unusual way. I understood the poster's frustration and what he was trying to express with his reference about a 'members lounge.' However, I know the difference between a lounge & a salon - the former hasn't a thing to do with the seeking and sharing of knowledge like the latter fosters. We may 'amuse' in between getting thy knowledge & understanding. But we don't 'Dilly Dally!' 




   
   
 [size=0.8em]   

 [/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well that is how I was able to meet some Head-Fi people face to face--by discussing and bonding on specialties other than Woo amps. Maybe we should start a new thread and call it Woo Audio Owners Unite with Ice Cream, Pizza, Coca-cola, Liquid Fire, and Julie London.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You may have to warm up the WA4 for me in October. When it's realized, I'll never be able to afford the new Woo models without exchanging the car for B.A.R.T. tix!


----------



## Clayton SF

Do you think that my CBS 6SN7GTB may be a Bad Boy? I've always thought this tube has sounded the best in my WA22. Sometimes these manufacturers would share their tubes. Maybe the "B" in the GTB stands for Bad Boy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Whenever I see a getter like the one at the bottom of this tube I feel like dunking it in soapy water and using it to blow bubbles!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Glass bottles rock, whether they are used as NOS audio tubes for our Woos or as a container for certain classic carbonated beverages. I prefer classic glass tubes metallic or plastic ones, and to be corn syrup-free as well (sorry!).


 

 I'm just minutes away from picking up a novel (burning in my DAC-1, so...) and noticed that Xcalibur255's post is still lingering quite nicely.


----------



## Szadzik

skylab said:


> I also agree that the T1 and WA2 are a stellar combo. No worries the at all. the WA2 was even surprisingly good with the LCD-2, which is pretty low impedance.




JC, Clayton, Skylab,

Thanks for confirming the choice I made was the right one. Now let's hope the journey is over when I have the amp and phones. 

Runs to quuickly not it down and remember not to spend any more money on audio equipment.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Speaking of Glenn and his adapters. You've inspired me to setup my WA22 tonight as it was when this photo was taken last year. The rectifier is a NOS RK60 tube with Raytheon VT-99 as bookends. It looks like a monster, heats up fierce (at least it seems that way) and produces a nice over-all sound. My transformers hum just a little bit but not enough to distract me or be concerned. I have some NOS Mullard GZ34s that chatter more than this RK60.


 


 I see I should have turned the 4pin socket in the 8 pin base a little more when I made the RK60 adapter so the two plate caps would be perfectly horizontal
  when in a WA22.
   Originally made the RK60 adapter for Seamaster what happened to Seamaster??  wee used to send each other tubes to try he let me use his GEC 6AS7s for
  a couple of months got me spoiled and never been able to find a good matched pair for myself.


----------



## Silent One

Cap upgrades ~
   
  Anyone ever return an amp, DAC or front-end for a cap upgrade and discovered a hum upon re-installation? That's what happened to me on Friday. Wyred4Sound replaced my caps and a diode bridge on the digital board. It was benched and passed QA yet, upon re-installation I now have hum through my Woo. 
   
  In the week the DAC has been in/out/in no other changes have been made to the audio rack. Through troubleshooting I have narrowed the hum down to the DAC. First, I ran through all of the inputs on the DAC using both the Bridge and USB connections and out to the Woo - Fail. Then I connected the DAC to the Pioneer - Fail.
   
  Next up, I swapped in my EMU-0404 DAC with the Woo - Pass. Although I will submit an inquiry tomorrow, perhaps someone in this space has had a similar experience that they can share with me. Meanwhile, I've two thoughts: the repair simply needing run-time and will perhaps fade away. Or possibly some sort of radioactive 'skin effect.' Well, maybe not that serious but you get the idea.
   
  Anyway, thank you for listening, thank you for participating inside one of head-fi's greatest threads of all time!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Cap upgrades ~
> 
> Anyone ever return an amp, DAC or front-end for a cap upgrade and discovered a hum upon re-installation? That's what happened to me on Friday. Wyred4Sound replaced my caps and a diode bridge on the digital board. It was benched and passed QA yet, upon re-installation I now have hum through my Woo.
> 
> ...


 



 I just got my W4S DAC1 and had W4S do the caps upgrade before they shipped it, anyway no hum at all using my LF amp. However I have not tried the DAC1+caps with my Woo's. Once I get over 150 hours on my new LF and DAC1 I will start a comparison between my mighty WA5LE + tubes, my DAC19 DSP1v5, and my new toys.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I just got my W4S DAC1 and had W4S do the caps upgrade before they shipped it, anyway no hum at all using my LF amp. However I have not tried the DAC1+caps with my Woo's. Once I get over 150 hours on my new LF and DAC1 I will start a comparison between my mighty WA5LE + tubes, my DAC19 DSP1v5, and my new toys.


 


  Thanks for your reply. And we're all looking forward to your upcoming observations with your new gear, especially as it compares/contrasts with the WA5LE. Currently, what has me baffled is that prior to shipping the DAC-1 out, all was silent with both amps. And apparently, it is something that didn't show up on the bench before leaving.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for your reply. And we're all looking forward to your upcoming observations with your new gear, especially as it compares/contrasts with the WA5LE. Currently, what has me baffled is that prior to shipping the DAC-1 out, all was silent with both amps. And apparently, it is something that didn't show up on the bench before leaving.


 
  Maybe the bench is just meters and does not involve hooking it up to anything and listening.  I'd ask them that.  I had a preamp that went back to the factory for some hand wireing changes and when it came back, I could hear that something was miswired, which later upon inspection, they did it wrong.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Maybe the bench is just meters and does not involve hooking it up to anything and listening.  I'd ask them that.  I had a preamp that went back to the factory for some hand wireing changes and when it came back, I could hear that something was miswired, which later upon inspection, they did it wrong.


 

 I'm very fortunate in that W4S is just down the Coast a bit. Imagine if I had to return it back East, Europe or Asia... the horror!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm anxious to get it resolved so I can focus on putting some miles on the ODO. I'm guessing I'll need an additional 700 hours since repairs. Tonight will test inputs again at hour 48...


----------



## Arcamera

Is there a Woo amp that works equally well with both low and high impedance headphones?


----------



## grokit

All the models that have a high/low impedance selector or outputs would be a good bet, check out their web site. Off the top of my head, both WA6 models, WA5/LE, and WA22 have this capability.


----------



## Arcamera

Thanks. I'm considering a Woo amp that would sound good with both the T1's and the D7000's, but without breaking my limited budget at the moment-- ideally not more than up to $1,000. I'll do some more research on the Woo site.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm very fortunate in that W4S is just down the Coast a bit. Imagine if I had to return it back East, Europe or Asia... the horror!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Really sorry to hear this is happening to you.   Yes, it is good that they are in our same day zone for ups.  I get stuff from them the next day.  Let me know how it goes with them on Monday.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Really sorry to hear this is happening to you.   Yes, it is good that they are in our same day zone for ups.  I get stuff from them the next day.  Let me know how it goes with them on Monday.


 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm very fortunate in that W4S is just down the Coast a bit. Imagine if I had to return it back East, Europe or Asia... the horror!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's terrible. And to think that you just got the W4S.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's terrible. And to think that you just got the W4S.


 


  The issue of hum can always make for a rough weekend, especially if one set the weekend aside for some audio pleasure. Thanks to y'all the weekend has been tolerable. In fact, Clayton's "Look what the cat found" saved my weekend... still on the floor over that one!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The issue of hum can always make for a rough weekend, especially if one set the weekend aside for some audio pleasure. Thanks to y'all the weekend has been tolerable. In fact, Clayton's "Look what the cat found" saved my weekend... still on the floor over that one!


 
  Yes, that, the ice cream and pizza brought the wrath of Jude down upon us!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes, that, the ice cream and pizza brought the wrath of Jude down upon us!


 


  One of the strengths of this thread I think is the collective self-policing. The thread has always shown the ability to right itself at the right time. I think that's something to admire, given that many other threads fail in that regard.
   
  I still have not forgotten about contacting Jude over our discussion on vinyl (potential group buys). Since I won't be sitting back in my high back sexy black executive chair staring at tubes tonight, I think I'll use that time to send him a message and see what he thinks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One of the strengths of this thread I think is the collective self-policing. The thread has always shown the ability to right itself at the right time. I think that's something to admire, given that many other threads fail in that regard.
> 
> I still have not forgotten about contacting Jude over our discussion on vinyl (potential group buys). Since I won't be sitting back in my high back sexy black executive chair staring at tubes tonight, I think I'll use that time to send him a message and see what he thinks.


 

 Great idea.  Please also mention that we are very zen here in that the first rule is to do no harm.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Great idea.  Please also mention that we are very zen here in that the first rule is to do no harm.


 

 Well stated.


----------



## Clayton SF

It put a damper on my weekend. I mean I just met another Head-Fi'er from Italy in this thread, got invited to visit his hometown. People were bonding and then it was like, "everyone move along, nothing to see here." Oh well, like you've said, no harm done. I guess it pulled me away for once about thinking about how I was going to finance my next set of tubes to how I was going to finance a side trip to Lucca. I had a laugh.
   
  Silent One. I remember you got the W4S DAC1 to go with your Woo6SE because the DAC2 was slightly out of your wallet range, did this upgrade bring you closer to the the price of the DAC2? Should not you have just traded it in for a DAC2? If you've explained this I apologize. I've been reading through about 15 different threads today. From Woo to LF to LDC2, Woo tube adapters (which, by the way, Glenn does an excellent job of making those adapters to your specs if you want--I need to order another RK60 adapter and make due with the tubes I already have).


----------



## jude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes, that, the ice cream and pizza brought the wrath of Jude down upon us!


 
   
  Almost every thread I jump into as a moderator is a result of others reporting the post/thread to me--I don't often moderate without that as an impetus first.
   
  So, SilentOne, before you set aside your evening to write me a manifesto of your thoughts on when and when not to jump in, know that it was our fellow community members who brought this to my attention--I didn't amble in here and notice the off-topic'ness on my own.  Now, if you still feel compelled to compose a strongly worded proclamation to me on this, I prefer seriffed fonts for long texts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now, please, do not let me steer this thread off-topic with this post.


----------



## Clayton SF

Had the others hung out long enough they would have realized who we are.... Pizza loving, Tube Buying, Friendly Woosies with nothing but kindness, ready-opinions, good zen karma on everything, but perhaps the weather. Then again, it does look like fog again tonight in SF. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Boy I love this hobby. You should see my room, Silent One and Mike, a bunch of Woos all in a row.
   
  I will be heating up the WA22 again when I return to Wooville.


----------



## grokit

I was thinking that our shared Lucca "side trip" could have been better handled via PM, but I did enjoy the journey and would love to visit myself sometime. Back on topic, I wonder how many Woo headphone amps are in that town?
   
  Clayton probably has more than the sum total in his listening room alone!
   
  I dated a girl named Lucchesi back in my college days, she had a very nice profile much like a 5998 power tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I was thinking that our shared Lucca "side trip" could have been better handled via PM, but I did enjoy the journey and would love to visit myself sometime. Back on topic, I wonder how many Woo headphone amps are in that town?
> 
> Clayton probably has more than the sum total in his listening room alone!
> 
> I dated a girl named Lucchesi back in my college days, she had a very nice profile much like a 5998 power tube.


 
   
  I see your point, but by not taking it to PM it got positive responses from a few other people who wouldn't have known about it had it gone PM. Oh well. It's too bad Head-Fi doesn't have those group instant chat thingies--or do they?
   
  Back on topic. The amps are going to be donated to my brother-in-law in a few months. He lives in Hawaii and I am hoping that if I give him a couple to audition he'll like it. My sister, on the other hand, kept emailing me--what up with all of those light bulbs. Hah!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Had the others hung out long enough they would have realized who we are.... Pizza loving, Tube Buying, Friendly Woosies with nothing but kindness, ready-opinions, good zen karma on everything, but perhaps the weather. Then again, it does look like fog again tonight in SF.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice picture, Clayton.  Now I have the lay of the land instead of just a small narrow view.
   
  One small thing.  Do you always leave the dustcover up on your Music Hall?  Maybe you were just about to change a record.  Maybe I'll post some photos of my (very small) audio stack.


----------



## jc9394

arcamera said:


> Thanks. I'm considering a Woo amp that would sound good with both the T1's and the D7000's, but without breaking my limited budget at the moment-- ideally not more than up to $1,000. I'll do some more research on the Woo site.




For around $1000, I think the WA6SE is your best bet.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jude said:


> Almost every thread I jump into as a moderator is a result of others reporting the post/thread to me--I don't often moderate without that as an impetus first.
> 
> So, SilentOne, before you set aside your evening to write me a manifesto of your thoughts on when and when not to jump in, know that it was our fellow community members who brought this to my attention--I didn't amble in here and notice the off-topic'ness on my own.  Now, if you still feel compelled to compose a strongly worded proclamation to me on this, I prefer seriffed fonts for long texts.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Jude, no problem.  If people are complaining, then why do it.  You are right, and thanks for letting us know.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I dated a girl named Lucchesi back in my college days, she had a very nice _profile much like a *5998*_ power tube.


 

 I've always wanted to get my hands on a *pinch waist 6DJ8/E88CC* tube for *WA4* and *WA2* but that silhouette pales by comparison to the _*5998 power tube*_.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> One small thing.  Do you always leave the dustcover up on your Music Hall?  Maybe you were just about to change a record.  Maybe I'll post some photos of my (very small) audio stack.


 
  How observant, Sherlock. (Is he on tonight?)
  I lifted it up to show the turntable but as it were, the table was too far away to show up any way. I usually cover it with a large cloth serviette. Like a magician. Poof--the dust is gone!


----------



## grokit

Haha she had a pinch waist as well. That was one nice tube to get a hold of, really the best of both worlds. I love this thread


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How observant, Sherlock. (Is he on tonight?)
> I lifted it up to show the turntable but as it were, the table was too far away to show up any way. I usually cover it with a large cloth serviette. Like a magician. Poof--the dust is gone!


 

 From Gilbert & Sullivan, "A policeman's lot is not a happy one!"


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I was wondering if you had an opinion on the two vs. three rivet versions. I have the two-rivet version, it looks like your Bad Boy otherwise except it is blacker around the base of the glass:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is one thing I cannot directly confirm, but it has been confirmed by others (that they sound different that is).  I thought about buying the two hole plate version of the side getter simply to confirm for myself, but couldn't justify it for that reason alone since none of the Sylvania tubes from this era are exactly cheap.  Folks elsewhere have asserted that they are not the same tube though, with photographic proof to back up the statement.  The reason the 3-hole plate Bad Boy sounds different is because it was manufactured on different tooling which was previously used to make the VT-231 era tubes.  I've seen it passed around here before actually but can't seem to find it at the moment, but there is a photo of one of each of these tubes taken apart and internally they are very different.  So, no I personally don't believe what Brent Jesse has asserted about 2-hole vs. 3-hole plate Sylvanias.  If we make the assumption that the 6SN7W uses the same 2-hole plate as yours then the two types sound pretty different IMO.  The only thing different on the W is the mica and support rod, but there is no proof the plates are the same so I'm only floating a theory here.  Sylvania really made a lot of variations on their tube designs in the 50's it seems.
   
  Are both of those photos the same tube?  I can't see the serrated teeth on the top mica in the first photo, but they are visible in the second.  This is another giveaway, since there were other Sylvania tubes from the same era which had different styles of mica.
   
  Your getter flashing appears the same as mine to my eyes.  I think it is just different exposure in the photos. The biggest difference that jumps out at me is your tubes do not have copper center grid pins, they are steel.  This difference actually affects the sound of any tube, not just these Sylvanias.  I consistently find steel to sound brighter and colder than copper, though the difference isn't night and day.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Do you think that my CBS 6SN7GTB may be a Bad Boy? I've always thought this tube has sounded the best in my WA22. Sometimes these manufacturers would share their tubes. Maybe the "B" in the GTB stands for Bad Boy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I think your CBS 6SN7GTB may be a CBS 6SN7GTB.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've heard good things about the CBS tubes but sadly I don't own any myself.  If one doesn't draw the line at some point there is just no end to tube buying.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Are both of those photos the same tube?


 
   
  Thanks for the feedback Xcaliber. So is it a given that the 3-hole Bad Boys have the copper center grid pins? That would make sense that they sound different if that is a hard and fast rule.
   
  Yes, they are the same tubes, just different angles.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jude said:


> Almost every thread I jump into as a moderator is a result of others reporting the post/thread to me--I don't often moderate without that as an impetus first.
> 
> So, SilentOne, before you set aside your evening to write me a manifesto of your thoughts on when and when not to jump in, know that it was our fellow community members who brought this to my attention--I didn't amble in here and notice the off-topic'ness on my own.  Now, if you still feel compelled to compose a strongly worded proclamation to me on this, I prefer seriffed fonts for long texts.
> 
> ...


 

 (Published 7 August, 2011 - 54 pages)
   
_Silent One Presents...  _"The Psychology of Diversifying Topics & The Long-Term Effects on Audiophiles."
   
  Sorry to disappoint you or any of the onlookers. But there is no manifesto, no smoking gun. However, I do believe my comments were misconstrued. In the first paragraph, I am simply highlighting the positive. In the second, which has absolutely nothing to do with you and Currawong's appearance, is about an idea me and mikemalter have been discussing the previous month - vinyl records. In fairness to me, I have not and will not tell you when to jump in and do anything.
   
  Others may not consider how this site is set up and your roles in it, but I do. I myself needed your Mod's diplomacy just last month. And yes, I know it's getting a bit late back East. But here come's that Private Message you're preparing to avoid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Kindly,
   
  The Silent One
   
  _________ Back to all things Woo! 
   
   
  "One of the strengths of this thread I think is the collective self-policing. The thread has always shown the ability to right itself at the right time. I think that's something to admire, given that many other threads fail in that regard.

   

  I still have not forgotten about contacting Jude over our discussion on vinyl (potential group buys). Since I won't be sitting back in my high back sexy black executive chair staring at tubes tonight, I think I'll use that time to send him a message and see what he thinks."


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a Benz LP-S on my VPI Scoutmatser. I love Benz cartridges. I'm sure the Ebony is also terrific. There is something just very right sounding about the Benz.


 

 The Benz Red L cartridge on my NAD 555 (Rega clone with RB250 tone arm) + RSA Nighthawk sounded pretty close in performance to my $3000 PS Audio Perfectwave DAC with Bridge.  I gave the edge in performance to the PWD, and I returned the Nighthawk when the battery was defective soon after getting it.  Someday I'll get another phono preamp, but it needs to have a balanced output because my WES (former demo unit) and my DIY KGSS both have only balanced inputs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> The Benz Red L cartridge on my NAD 555 (Rega clone with RB250 tone arm) + RSA Nighthawk sounded pretty close in performance to my $3000 PS Audio Perfectwave DAC with Bridge.  I gave the edge in performance to the PWD, and I returned the Nighthawk when the battery was defective soon after getting it.  Someday I'll get another phono preamp, but it needs to have a balanced output because my WES (former demo unit) and my DIY KGSS both have only balanced inputs.


 


  How did Westone go? Hopefully without any hitches & glitches, but smooth audio. Which one of you from the region will be posting pix?


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello guys; I am very sorry if my arrival has disrupted some thread's rule: since I am a very lonely man (single, I live with my old daddy and, until last March my mummy and my life is made only by work, attend to my daddy especially on weekends when we have no help at home, and then listening to music, watching DVD's and reading American and French Comic Books. Stop) to begin to write on this thread has been wonderful because it permitted me to meet some new friends with my same hobby. My excuses to all those that have been unhappy with this. I hope that in the future all of you can come to Italy to visit our beatiful country and, if you wish,  to meet me and my audio system and if some would like to contact me about these things please feel free to write to l.mazzei@tin.it .
   
  Now, back on topic: my friend/Naim retailer has advised me against making any change/upgrade on my Woo amp because, in his experience (thirty years in the Hi-end field) he says that often the sound can change for the worse after a modification. Like I have said in an earlier post, I also have an hum when listening with my WA22: Friday evening I was listening to a beautiful Schumann's works for piano CD and when the pianist played the quieter parts I clearly heard the humming in the left channel of my Hd-800 Senn. But in my case the hum seems due to a EMF present in the area where I live so it is not easy to find a solution.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello guys; I am very sorry if my arrival has disrupted some thread's rule: since I am a very lonely man (single, I live with my old daddy and, until last March my mummy and my life is made only by work, attend to my daddy especially on weekends when we have no help at home, and then listening to music, watching DVD's and reading American and French Comic Books. Stop) to begin to write on this thread has been wonderful because it permitted me to meet some new friends with my same hobby. My excuses to all those that have been unhappy with this. I hope that in the future all of you can come to Italy to visit our beatiful country and, if you wish,  to meet me and my audio system and if some would like to contact me about these things please feel free to write to l.mazzei@tin.it .
> 
> Now, back on topic: my friend/Naim retailer has advised me against making any change/upgrade on my Woo amp because, in his experience (thirty years in the Hi-end field) he says that often the sound can change for the worse after a modification. Like I have said in an earlier post, I also have an hum when listening with my WA22: Friday evening I was listening to a beautiful Schumann's works for piano CD and when the pianist played the quieter parts I clearly heard the humming in the left channel of my Hd-800 Senn. But in my case the hum seems due to a EMF present in the area where I live so it is not easy to find a solution.


 
   
  Saluti!
   
  No worries, LUMAZ everyone's fine, we're a passionate bunch! Some of us (_Silent One quietly raises his hand._..) just got a bit excited and moved away from the discussion. Sometimes it just takes a friendly reminder about our presence, be it the library, church, a meeting and so on... but I recorded your address, thanks. Also, Private Messaging is available as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Regarding your WA22, I know what it's like to have a beautiful passage marred by hum. That has been my story over the weekend - decided not to indulge my Woo. Your hum is interesting though in that you hear it in a single channel? I wonder if this is a case of one of your tubes picking up the EMF? I have always had hum in stereo, not mono. And the problem was usually centered a cable or satellite coax needing a better ground. This, despite not even being near the system. But, you know what they say, once the nasties get airborne, all antennas or cables acting as antennas are in trouble!
   
  Curiously, have you given thought to were you placed your system? Or is it placed simply were it is practical because of furnishings and decor? Do you happen to have Cable or Satellite TV inside the home where the system is? One thing you should try is temporarily moving your system. Even if you don't plan leaving it in the new spot, your investigation may yield surprises by moving around the room in search of an optimum location. It could take a lot of time, maybe not. But the rewards could be huge!
   
  Preparing for sunrise and breakfast. Until next exchange, have a great afternoon... arrivederci!


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: Original posted by SilentOne 
   
  (Regarding your WA22, I know what it's like to have a beautiful passage marred by hum. That has been my story over the weekend - decided not to indulge my Woo. Your hum is interesting though in that you hear it in a single channel? I wonder if this is a case of one of your tubes picking up the EMF? I have always had hum in stereo, not mono. And the problem was usually centered a cable or satellite coax needing a better ground. This, despite not even being near the system. But, you know what they say, once the nasties get airborne, all antennas or cables acting as antennas are in trouble!
   
  Curiously, have you given thought to were you placed your system? Or is it placed simply were it is practical because of furnishings and decor? Do you happen to have Cable or Satellite TV inside the home where the system is? One thing you should try is temporarily moving your system. Even if you don't plan leaving it in the new spot, your investigation may yield surprises by moving around the room in search of an optimum location. It could take a lot of time, maybe not. But the rewards could be huge!)
   
  Well, to tell the truth I have already made all that you suggest, I also moved my WA22 in my parking box (I live in an four-stories apartment building and my parking box is not near my apartment). I hear the hum everywhere I go, in some room is slighty less audible but it is present, also now that with my Naim I am using a balanced interconnect cable to WA22, the hum is it less audible and, strange but true, if I put volume at maximum level it disappears! Last wedsneday I took my WA22 to the shop of my Naim retailer (and friend) and there was no hum at all! So we believe there is some EMF interference (I don't have cable TV but on my apartment building's roof there is a Satellite antenna) and it is not easy to find a solution because I can't insulate my room (at this moment I don't have the money since I have just ordered my second 555 Naim power supply!)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: Original posted by SilentOne
> 
> (Regarding your WA22, I know what it's like to have a beautiful passage marred by hum. That has been my story over the weekend - decided not to indulge my Woo. Your hum is interesting though in that you hear it in a single channel? I wonder if this is a case of one of your tubes picking up the EMF? I have always had hum in stereo, not mono. And the problem was usually centered a cable or satellite coax needing a better ground. This, despite not even being near the system. But, you know what they say, once the nasties get airborne, all antennas or cables acting as antennas are in trouble!
> 
> ...


 

  
  Ok, I've another suggestion! Send Jack of Woo Audio a message from their website briefly outlining the problem. This is because when he started out, his customer base was New York City - tons of apartment buildings, high rises and stuff. Trust me, someone has had to deal with your problem in NYC before!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm quite sure, for mobile devices, tube amps and listening rooms in general, the City has got to be a tough environment there where Woo Audio's customer base originated.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by SilentOne 
   
  (Ok, I've another suggestion! Send Jack of Woo Audio a message from their website briefly outlining the problem. This is because when he started out, his customer base was New York City - tons of apartment buildings, high rises and stuff. Trust me, someone has had to deal with your problem in NYC before!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm quite sure, for mobile devices, tube amps and listening rooms in general, the City has got to be a tough environment there where Woo Audio's customer base originated.)
   
  Thanks SilentOne, you are a friend and I hope that one day we will meet with the other nice Woo Owners (since I have various relatives in Chicago, one day I will visit the States and from Chicago to LA it is not a big distance!)
  I have not messaged yet to Jack because in the WA22 owner's manual he already suggested the possible cause of an hum in the ampli but, as a matter of fact, he  didn't give any solutions about EMF problems.


----------



## Clayton SF

Good Morning Woo Owners! **yawn**
   
  It is Monday morning and I go to the Audiologist this morning at 9.00 to make sure my ears are in tip-top shape for an evening massage from any Woo Amp of my liking. (Thank you, Silent One.) Well, okay, almost any Woo amp for I don't own the WA5 (yet!)  Last night I went to bed listening to my Leben and for some reason the sound was a bit too tube-y for my liking compared to the WA22. I was using the HD650 so it may just be the hp. And I was listening to Fleet Foxes's first LP. I wonder what sound signature an amp with 300B tubes would be like.
   
  Rise and Shine! In SF that is. And fire up yer amps. I have.
   
  And LUMAZ--After visiting Silent One in LA you must make it here to San Francisco to listen to more Woo Amps and check out Mike's rig, too. Mike's Big Rig.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote: original posted by SilentOne
> 
> (Ok, I've another suggestion! Send Jack of Woo Audio a message from their website briefly outlining the problem. This is because when he started out, his customer base was New York City - tons of apartment buildings, high rises and stuff. Trust me, someone has had to deal with your problem in NYC before!
> 
> ...


 

 Meeting up with our 'Unite' brothers & sisters around the world is what life is all about. Looking forward to meeting you one day. At this writing, I am curious about my own potential EMF inside the chassis of my DAC. Hope to hear back from the manufacturer when I awake. Time for bed, see you on the other side of lunch in California... take care!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good Morning Woo Owners! **yawn**
> 
> It is Monday morning and I go to the Audiologist this morning at 9.00 to make sure my ears are in tip-top shape for an evening massage from any Woo Amp of my liking. (Thank you, Silent One.) Well, okay, almost any Woo amp for I don't own the WA5 (yet!)  Last night I went to bed listening to my Leben and for some reason the sound was a bit too tube-y for my liking compared to the WA22. I was using the HD650 so it may just be the hp. And I was listening to Fleet Foxes's first LP. I wonder what sound signature an amp with 300B tubes would be like.
> 
> ...


 


  In my distant horizon, I can faintly make out the silhouette of what looks like a 300B tube amplifier... possibly a Woo Made in America amp. Eye strain, hard to tell. Oh, and by the way, I'll be with you in spirit at 0900 hours.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In my distant horizon, I can faintly make out the silhouette of what looks like a 300B tube amplifier... possibly a Woo Made in America amp. Eye strain, hard to tell.


 
  It's probably a silhouette of me on the horizon after eating a few pizzas in Lucca. Yes. Do you know which meet Jack Wu will be at next? Something in October happening, I think. October is always out of my grasp for any travel away from work because my employer's tri-year Docket to the trustees is due then.


----------



## LUMAZ

Just a question out of sheer curiosity to all Woo owners (and good morning to you all!).
  For how long can you listen to music with a can on your head without a pause? (that is apart from go to the bathroom or things like this!). And if you have more than an headphone (I have only my Senn HD-800) which one is the less fatiguing for your ears? Generally speaking, after 3 listening's hours (or slightly more) I am becoming tired and my ears begin to feel less clearly than at the beginning so I must stop (my volume level with my WA22 is, more or less at 11 but it depends also from the QA of every CD's that I put in my Naim 555).
   
  P.S. In the weekend, since I have had little time to hear music, I put on the IsoTek break-in and demagnetizing CD (without turn on my WA22) to make work my new Naim 555, and after 10 hours's workout now things are getting better for my system!


----------



## Clayton SF

Currently I listen to music usually 1 complete CD at a time. Then I listen to the speaker system for another CD and then back to the headphones. So I would say I listen to headphones about 70 minutes at a time and no longer. It is because I need to move around as well or my butt will fall asleep before my ears.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good Morning Woo Owners! **yawn**
> 
> It is Monday morning and I go to the Audiologist this morning at 9.00 to make sure my ears are in tip-top shape for an evening massage from any Woo Amp of my liking. (Thank you, Silent One.) Well, okay, almost any Woo amp for I don't own the WA5 (yet!)  Last night I went to bed listening to my Leben and for some reason the sound was a bit too tube-y for my liking compared to the WA22. I was using the HD650 so it may just be the hp. And I was listening to Fleet Foxes's first LP. I wonder what sound signature an amp with 300B tubes would be like.
> 
> ...


 

 Greetings to you too Clayton and my other Woomates.  I ended up the night listening to the Brandenberg, and now I am starting off the day on side two of the LP.  I had about 80 hours on my new LCD-2 r2 and was swapping back and forth in my WA22 last night.  Funny story.  I lost track of which phone I was hearing and when the LP ended I thought I was listening to the HD800, but I actually had the LCD-2 on.  It's sound signature is starting to evolve and is very promising.  I'm sure glad I have some solid state stuff around to keep the burn-in going 24/7. 
   
  So now that I have three pairs of headphones (sigh) the question is where to put them and how to organize them.  What do you use to organize your 'phones?
   
  I'm going to try to get some pictures out today.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It's probably a silhouette of me on the horizon after eating a few pizzas in Lucca. Yes. Do you know which meet Jack Wu will be at next? Something in October happening, I think. October is always out of my grasp for any travel away from work because my employer's tri-year Docket to the trustees is due then.


 


   I am pretty sure Jack will be at RMAF in October since this year's CanJam is there too. The dates are October 14th through 16th.
  If you have not been there you ow it to yourself. Jack brings a display of all his offereings so you can sitdwon and play with each one. That was how I picked my WA5-LE at the last CanJam in Chicago.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am pretty sure Jack will be at RMAF in October since this year's CanJam is there too. The dates are October 14th through 16th.
> If you have not been there you ow it to yourself. Jack brings a display of all his offereings so you can sitdwon and play with each one. That was how I picked my WA5-LE at the last CanJam in Chicago.


 

 Hmmmm.  October.  What city, Denver?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hmmmm.  October.  What city, Denver?


 
  FIELD TRIP! Get ready, guys!


----------



## dminches

Some of us are already planning on going.  RMAF is arguably the best audio show of the year.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Just a question out of sheer curiosity to all Woo owners (and good morning to you all!).
> For how long can you listen to music with a can on your head without a pause? (that is apart from go to the bathroom or things like this!).


 

  I have been known to sit all day long with my headphones on, but it is not a consistent thing at all. When I do go for a marathon session like that, I will usually switch headphones about halfway through. The HD800 is just the antidote for the LCD-2 in physical comfort as well as it's ability to bring a little more air into the sound, and the LCD-2's lushness can be just the ticket for the HD800's uber high-end detail.
   
  The newer LCD-2 sounds like a great headphone in its own right, but from what I am reading I don't that it would would be as much of a contrast sound-wise as the original to my later-model HD800. The newer LCD-2 probably is a great compliment Mike's early-model HD800 though; I think we both have the right pairings and I believe it's a good thing to be able to alternate headphones for those longer sessions. For myself there is listening fatigue, which can come on faster with the HD800, and physical fatigue, which happens more with the LCD-2.
   
  Is that how you see it Mike? What is your third headphone, do you still have your earlier LCD-2?
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Greetings to you too Clayton and my other Woomates.  I ended up the night listening to the Brandenberg, and now I am starting off the day on side two of the LP.  I had about 80 hours on my new LCD-2 r2 and was swapping back and forth in my WA22 last night.  Funny story.  I lost track of which phone I was hearing and when the LP ended I thought I was listening to the HD800, but I actually had the LCD-2 on.  It's sound signature is starting to evolve and is very promising.  I'm sure glad I have some solid state stuff around to keep the burn-in going 24/7.
> 
> So now that I have three pairs of headphones (sigh) the question is where to put them and how to organize them.  What do you use to organize your 'phones?


 
   
  For organizing around my WA22 I use the Sennheiser headphone Hangers, I still have four of them after passing a couple of them on. Upstairs for my AD2K and Ed8 I have a double-Woo stand, and for the sadly neglected high-powered rig I can fit both the KK and He-6 on a single padded double-pronged utility wall hanger made for yard tools.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Just a question out of sheer curiosity to all Woo owners (and good morning to you all!).
> For how long can you listen to music with a can on your head without a pause? (that is apart from go to the bathroom or things like this!). And if you have more than an headphone (I have only my Senn HD-800) which one is the less fatiguing for your ears? Generally speaking, after 3 listening's hours (or slightly more) I am becoming tired and my ears begin to feel less clearly than at the beginning so I must stop (my volume level with my WA22 is, more or less at 11 but it depends also from the QA of every CD's that I put in my Naim 555).
> 
> P.S. In the weekend, since I have had little time to hear music, I put on the IsoTek break-in and demagnetizing CD (without turn on my WA22) to make work my new Naim 555, and after 10 hours's workout now things are getting better for my system!


 


 LUMAZ, if you have WE421a power tubes with a pure balanced source into the WA22 balanced input, I would say something is wrong in the fact that you have your volume set to 11 o'clock. Loud should be around 5 clicks from the bottom (3 o'clock). Comfortable should be 4 clicks (give or take 1, depending on the sensitivity of your ears). If I put my volume to 11 o'clock (9 clicks), I have to take the headphones off - it would damage my ears.  At 4 clicks, I could easily listen for a full 8 hours without any problems at all (the sound is kind of loud, should probably only be at 3 clicks).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have been known to sit all day long with my headphones on, but it is not a consistent thing at all. When I do go for a marathon session like that, I will usually switch headphones about halfway through. The HD800 is just the antidote for the LCD-2 in physical comfort as well as it's ability to bring a little more air into the sound, and the LCD-2's lushness can be just the ticket for the HD800's uber high-end detail.
> 
> The newer LCD-2 sounds like a great headphone in its own right, but from what I am reading I don't that it would would be as much of a contrast sound-wise as the original to my later-model HD800. The newer LCD-2 probably is a great compliment Mike's early-model HD800 though; I think we both have the right pairings and I believe it's a good thing to be able to alternate headphones for those longer sessions. For myself there is listening fatigue, which can come on faster with the HD800, and physical fatigue, which happens more with the LCD-2.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Grokit,
   
  I see it close to what you are saying with the exception that the HD800 is my baseline, so I would not call them uber high-end detail phones, but natural sounding phones and all others are compared to them (my perspective, IMHO and ect.).
   
  I'm still breaking in the r2 version of the LCD-2 so I cannot say just yet other then they sound promising and I think at these early stages I detect a certain bottom end lushness or richness from them that the HD800 does not exhibit.  I'll know when I have 250 hours on them and I have about 96 hours on them so far.  They are attached to a solid state headphone amp and are playing all day long in another room and I bring them out in the evening to check on them like last night for an hour or so.
   
  As for listening fatigue, I have been thinking about that since LUMAZ asked how long we can listen to headphones before we have to stop.  I have some ideas about what this is, and am not ready to share my thoughts just yet as I want to roll it over in my mind a bit more before I say anything.
   
  My third headphone is the HD650.
   
  Where did you purchase your headphone hangers?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Just a question out of sheer curiosity to all Woo owners (and good morning to you all!).
> For how long can you listen to music with a can on your head without a pause? (that is apart from go to the bathroom or things like this!). And if you have more than an headphone (I have only my Senn HD-800) which one is the less fatiguing for your ears? Generally speaking, after 3 listening's hours (or slightly more) I am becoming tired and my ears begin to feel less clearly than at the beginning so I must stop (my volume level with my WA22 is, more or less at 11 but it depends also from the QA of every CD's that I put in my Naim 555).
> 
> P.S. In the weekend, since I have had little time to hear music, I put on the IsoTek break-in and demagnetizing CD (without turn on my WA22) to make work my new Naim 555, and after 10 hours's workout now things are getting better for my system!


 

 IsoTek _______
   
  That's what I use on m system as well!


----------



## Silent One

Sennheiser Headphone Holder _____
   
  I'm going to get mine from The Headroom (headphone.com) Photo below is from fellow head-fier Chu...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am pretty sure Jack will be at RMAF in October since this year's CanJam is there too. The dates are October 14th through 16th.
> If you have not been there you ow it to yourself. Jack brings a display of all his offereings so you can sitdwon and play with each one. That was how I picked my WA5-LE at the last CanJam in Chicago.


 

 Jack (Woo Audio) is announcing new products in October - almost certain that's the event!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Where did you purchase your headphone hangers?
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
   
  I got mine direct from Sennheiser:
  http://shop.sennheiserusa.com/retail2002/ProductDetails.aspx?direct_cat=Parts&direct_prod=510615
   
  But it looks like Amazon may have a better deal:
  http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Holder-Over-Headphones/dp/B004LPZBD6


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good Morning Woo Owners! **yawn**
> 
> It is Monday morning and I go to the Audiologist this morning at 9.00 to make sure my ears are in tip-top shape for an evening massage from any Woo Amp of my liking. (Thank you, Silent One.) Well, okay, almost any Woo amp for I don't own the WA5 (yet!)  Last night I went to bed listening to my Leben and for some reason the sound was a bit too tube-y for my liking compared to the WA22. I was using the HD650 so it may just be the hp. And I was listening to Fleet Foxes's first LP. I wonder what sound signature an amp with 300B tubes would be like.
> 
> ...


 



 Save your money, get some Debrox and maybe some Auro-Dry.
   
  Anyway, my findings with my WA5LE and WE 300B's and the other tubes I use, is that it is all dependent on what you have feeding this Amp like what DAC/source you are using.
   
  Also I have found that using my Realiser via HDMI input (keeping the Realiser in all digital mode) and using a Toslink out to my Dac19 DSP1v5, the AQ is close to a SS sound but still very smooth.
   
  My point is that my WA5LE is a very versatile amp.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Jack (Woo Audio) is announcing new products in October - almost certain that's the event!


 
   
  It should be interesting; besides the new flagship, haven't there been rumors of a Woo DAC and Woo headphones?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Just a question out of sheer curiosity to all Woo owners (and good morning to you all!).
> For how long can you listen to music with a can on your head without a pause? (that is apart from go to the bathroom or things like this!). And if you have more than an headphone (I have only my Senn HD-800) which one is the less fatiguing for your ears? Generally speaking, after 3 listening's hours (or slightly more) I am becoming tired and my ears begin to feel less clearly than at the beginning so I must stop (my volume level with my WA22 is, more or less at 11 but it depends also from the QA of every CD's that I put in my Naim 555).
> 
> P.S. In the weekend, since I have had little time to hear music, I put on the IsoTek break-in and demagnetizing CD (without turn on my WA22) to make work my new Naim 555, and after 10 hours's workout now things are getting better for my system!


 


  My Denon D7000 headphones are light in weight with comfortable ear pads; can listen for very long extended periods if I chose to do so. But I choose not to. For the same reason I don't listen to headphones on a daily/nightly basis. There are exceptions (we know when this happens - new gear, new music and/or elevated mood). Most often times I'll pepper the listening session with several mini-breaks (currently this falls in with being 'On call' as well). And my practice includes spacing out my sessions during the week. Generally, if I have long eight hour sessions, I'll go for every third day. When sessions are short but sweet, I'll go every other day or back-to-back for a bit.
   
  I've long adopted this practice since working in audio. From sun up to sundown there's always a demo somewhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  All this on top of listening to a high-end multi-amped car system, demos at work/shows and listening sessions at home. My audiologist recommended 'spacing' as a way to allow my inner ear expand (giving it a break for recovery). Hope my experience either helps someone in practice or places it onto their minds (hmmmm, I wonder...)




   
  Now that Clayton got 'Squeeky' this morning, I'm filled with envy!


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





grokit said:


> But it looks like Amazon may have a better deal:
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Holder-Over-Headphones/dp/B004LPZBD6


 


  I was just going to say that Amazon has them for $15.
   
  I have two, and they're great.  There's space to coil up the cord and hang it next to the headband.


----------



## Clayton SF

Woo is like Apple. _*Woople*_--
  You won't know until Steve Jobs Jack Wu presents.
  The excitement builds! The rumor mill grinds.
_*Woo*DAC?_
_*Woo*300B?_
_*Woo*Pad?_
  All I can say is that Jack has got our attention!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It should be interesting; besides the new flagship, haven't there been rumors of a Woo DAC and Woo headphones?


 
   
  I've long heard the DAC rumored but Jack confirmed the headphones himself. I think we're going to see a major refresh in their line-up to address the shifting landscape in headphone listening... (_a shot at the competition, if you would!_)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I got mine direct from Sennheiser:
> http://shop.sennheiserusa.com/retail2002/ProductDetails.aspx?direct_cat=Parts&direct_prod=510615
> 
> But it looks like Amazon may have a better deal:
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Holder-Over-Headphones/dp/B004LPZBD6


 

 Thanks for shopping, grokit. AMZN it is!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Woo is like Apple. _*Woople*_--
> You won't know until Steve Jobs Jack Wu presents.
> The excitement builds! The rumor mill grinds.
> _*Woo*DAC?_
> ...


 

 RMAF ______
   
  Jack got style! I came up a bit short (buying gear quarterly, monthly allotments of Haagen-Dazs Reserve and other misc stuff) on cash for this year's trip. Definitely making a run at RMAF 2012!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> LUMAZ, if you have WE421a power tubes with a pure balanced source into the WA22 balanced input, I would say something is wrong in the fact that you have your volume set to 11 o'clock. Loud should be around 5 clicks from the bottom (3 o'clock). Comfortable should be 4 clicks (give or take 1, depending on the sensitivity of your ears). If I put my volume to 11 o'clock (9 clicks), I have to take the headphones off - it would damage my ears.  At 4 clicks, I could easily listen for a full 8 hours without any problems at all (the sound is kind of loud, should probably only be at 3 clicks).


 

 I have a balanced source for my input. I use my WA22 often at the 11-2 o'clock position. Granted, sometimes at 9 o'clock also. I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with that. 7236,5998(421a) power tubes here also. The source, both hardware and source material is the determining factor I think.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Anyone ever see these Fast Track Hooks from Rubbermaid?   I have 2 of them.  Work pretty good.  (These photos are not mine, but come from the head phone thread)
   
  Got mine at Loewes for $10 each.  
   


   
   
   
   
  How about these for your wall then?  Guitar hangers.
   
  http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitar-wall-hangers?src=3WWRWXGG


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Anyone ever see these Fast Track Hooks from Rubbermaid?   I have 2 of them.  Work pretty good.  (These photos are not mine, but come from the head phone thread)
> 
> Got mine at Loewes for $10 each.
> 
> ...


 

 Now that is what I'm talking about - I want some.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I have a balanced source for my input. I use my WA22 often at the 11-2 o'clock position. Granted, sometimes at 9 o'clock also. I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with that. 7236,5998(421a) power tubes here also. The source, both hardware and source material is the determining factor I think.


 


 Right, 9 o'clock (not 3 o'clock). I wonder what the difference is? The voltage from the source you think? At 11 o'clock I would have permanent ear damage (it also sounds bad too)... Does your source have a separate volume control? I think the BDP-95 is something like 4.6 volts via XLR.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Officially the 7N7 and 6SN7 adapter sold by Jack are for the WA6 only.  The WA6SE will burn the tubes up left as is.  Owners here who use the tubes on their WA6SE do so using adapters made by a gentleman named Glenn, who can be reached here as member 2359glenn.  His adapters contain a couple of parts, mainly resistors, which make the 6SN7 safe for use in the WA6SE.  The important thing to remember is this:  it isn't the amp that is at risk, but the tubes.  You won't fry your Woo, the 7N7 or 6SN7 just lives a short life in the amp without this simple modification.
> 
> edit:  I see Jack is officially pairing the 6EM7 with the WA6SE, that looks like it is new.  I talked with Glenn once about this tube, which is half of a 6SN7 and half of a 6DE7.  This might be a nice option as well, splitting the difference between the tubes (some people think the 6SN7 is too romantic sounding in these amps).  They are also dirt cheap to roll, which is always a plus.


 

 Thank you!  Massively helpful, sure that info is buried in this thread somewhere but I didn't see it doing a search on 7n7.
   
  I ask about the 7n7 as that's my favorite tube in my old SinglePower Slam.  Granted, I never tried top flight 6sn7s.  
   
  I think I'll hold out for more impressions on the 6em7 first.  I'm using RCA 6DE7s + coke bottle RCA 5u4g on my WA6SE, don't like the 6ew7s in this amp, too muddy. 
   
  Hate to say it but I have a DNA Sonett running a Mullard GZ34 and 6h30 supertube (top tubes in this guy) and I prefer it to the WA6SE.  A big part of that sound is the GZ34, swapping the rectifiers in the amps bring them closer together soundwise.  So I'm in an interesting place, I want to tube roll, but I want to do it economically as I'm not sure I'll hold onto it.  Had an EML 5u4g on order to be shipped today and cancelled it last minute.  Caveat: comparisons out of an old Ack! Dack! 2.0 w/ hi resolution caps (NOS TDA1545).  Decided to get a Schiit bifrost for grins to see how that fares, will hold on to both amps until I can at least try them on it.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  A few photos I just posted in the Nikon thread.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/222099/the-nikon-thread-talk-about-nikon-stuff-here/4650#post_7664858
   
  Amsterdam was great. I really hope next time before going to a place like that I could arrange a small meet with head-fiers in the location I would be going to.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Wow that's a great deal at AMZN.  Wish I had seen that when I ordered mine! 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for shopping, grokit. AMZN it is!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Now that is what I'm talking about - I want some.


 
  Here is an Amazon link to see what they are called but you can get them in the rubbermaid Isle at Lowes for $10
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-5E12-FastTrack-Hose-Hook/dp/B0009J5NUY
  
  http://www.lowes.com/pd_241418-315-FG5E12FTSNCKL_0__?storeId=10151&Ntt=rubbermaid+5e12+fasttrack+hose+hook&UserSearch=rubbermaid+5e12+fasttrack+hose+hook&productId=3277073&N=0&catalogId=10051&langId=-1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Here is an Amazon link to see what they are called but you can get them in the rubbermaid Isle at Lowes for $10
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-5E12-FastTrack-Hose-Hook/dp/B0009J5NUY
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_241418-315-FG5E12FTSNCKL_0__?storeId=10151&Ntt=rubbermaid+5e12+fasttrack+hose+hook&UserSearch=rubbermaid+5e12+fasttrack+hose+hook&productId=3277073&N=0&catalogId=10051&langId=-1


 

 Thanks to your contribution, WarriorAnt, I'm going to buy one of each: The Senn & The Rubbermaid. For me this would be ideal because surface real estate inside the listening room is as costly and crowded as H.K.! But getting one of each works!


----------



## jerico

golfnutz said:


> Right, 9 o'clock (not 3 o'clock). I wonder what the difference is? The voltage from the source you think? At 11 o'clock I would have permanent ear damage (it also sounds bad too)... Does your source have a separate volume control? I think the BDP-95 is something like 4.6 volts via XLR.




With the same tubes (7236/5998) I can't get above 5 clicks without things being *very* loud. 3-4 is "normal" for most of the recording I enounter.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hmmmm.  October.  What city, Denver?


 

 Yes, Denver metro area.
  Here is the link:
   
  http://audiofest.net/2011/index.php
   
  I am expecting that Jack will unveil their new additions to the Woo brand in the event.


----------



## grokit

Here's my wall hanger, it holds the HE-6 and K1000 together comfortably:


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Here's my wall hanger, it holds the HE-6 and K1000 together comfortably:


 

 Hey where did you get that?!


----------



## jude

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hmmmm.  October.  What city, Denver?


 

 October 14, 15, 16, 2011, in Denver.
   
  http://www.canjam.org will take you right to the CanJam @ RMAF thread.
   
  Hope to see you there, Mike!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hey where did you get that?!


 
   
  At an everything type of store called Fred Meyer. I don't know if you have them is Arizona but it's kind of in between a Walmart and a Target but with better groceries than either one.


----------



## Silent One

Before I remodeled the listening room, my lovely hand-carved Nigerian Princess (from Nigeria) served me well. Now she's located on the opposite side of the room. Now, I'm in scramble mode for a solution. It must be elegant, however...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jude said:


> October 14, 15, 16, 2011, in Denver.
> 
> http://www.canjam.org will take you right to the CanJam @ RMAF thread.
> 
> Hope to see you there, Mike!


 

 Thank's Jude, you too.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Before I remodeled the listening room, my lovely hand-carved Nigerian Princess (from Nigeria) served me well. Now she's located on the opposite side of the room. Now, I'm in scramble mode for a solution. It must be elegant, however...


 

 OMG!
   
  That is so beautiful.  Why am I not surprised that your cans would not rest on something so pedestrian as to be bought from Amazon or double as a rubber baby buggy.  Nice, really nice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> OMG!
> 
> That is so beautiful.  Why am I not surprised that your cans would not rest on something so pedestrian as to be bought from Amazon or double as a rubber baby buggy.  Nice, really nice.


 

 Thanks for the compliment. I've had her for years, given to me by my college roommate. He brought her back from his village during the holiday semester break. As soon as I removed the D5000's out of the box... I knew! The D7000's look even better on her but I didn't get a shot - good music has a way of holding our attention.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by Golfnutz 
   
  (LUMAZ, if you have WE421a power tubes with a pure balanced source into the WA22 balanced input, I would say something is wrong in the fact that you have your volume set to 11 o'clock. Loud should be around 5 clicks from the bottom (3 o'clock). Comfortable should be 4 clicks (give or take 1, depending on the sensitivity of your ears). If I put my volume to 11 o'clock (9 clicks), I have to take the headphones off - it would damage my ears.  At 4 clicks, I could easily listen for a full 8 hours without any problems at all (the sound is kind of loud, should probably only be at 3 clicks).
   
  Maybe I am explaining myself bad in English: for me 11 o' clock is 2 or 3 clicks below the centre (it ought to be 12) of the volume knob. It is loud but, especially for rock, it is my favourite volume. Also it depends on how a CD is mastered: sometimes it is too loud, sometimes it is a bit too soft for me. Nevertheless if I am listening with umbalanced source I must put my volume higher (2 clicks).
  When I listen with my Vincent KHV 1 hybrid (half tube and half ss) preampli, I put the same volume (11 o'clock) or a click up.
  A year ago, when I bought my Senn HD-800 I had a little ss headphone ampli and with that I put the volume only 2 or 3 clicks because the sound was too higher.
  So probably it depends on various reasons. Maybe my WE 421 are always too new and are not yet at their full force.


----------



## grokit

Different sources have different output voltages, usually from 1 volt to 2.5 and even up to 5 volts, that would explain a few things. Are you using the 7236 or 5998 power tubes yet? Then the WA22 will get louder as well.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Right, 9 o'clock (not 3 o'clock). I wonder what the difference is? The voltage from the source you think? At 11 o'clock I would have permanent ear damage (it also sounds bad too)... Does your source have a separate volume control? I think the BDP-95 is something like 4.6 volts via XLR.


 

 Just to confirm, on my WA22 minimum volume is @ 6 0'clock.
   
  Yes, I do think source voltage is one a possible difference. My owners manual has the following:
  • Connectors: XLR gold-plated
  • Level: 3Vrms (8.5Vpp)
  • Impedance: 100 Ohms
   
  My source has a digital volume control which I always keep locked down @ 100%.
   
  FWIW, Jack told me via email that it is ok or normal to use the WA22 volume control past midpoint or 12 o'clock and beyond.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: original posted by sillysally 
   
  (Anyway, my findings with my WA5LE and WE 300B's and the other tubes I use, is that it is all dependent on what you have feeding this Amp like what DAC/source you are using.)
   
  I agree with you sillysally: people are saying that Senn HD-800 is a "cold and analytical can" and that bass range it is not up with, for example, LCD 2: Well I don't know the Audeze headphone but now that I am feeding my WA22 with the superb cdp Naim 555 I know that my ampli is so happy that sends a flow of hot energy into my HD-800 and that my can now has everything: a magical sound, hot and vibrant bass and it swings oh boy how it swings! It seems another can and maybe it is true that it is a princess and that it needs the very best to give us the best that has in store.


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello guys (I am here again but it is not my fault if at this hour you all are sleeping and I am the only one online!) 
 Yesterday evening I was listening to Christian McBride's "Gettin' to it" a wonderful jazz CD of about 15 years ago. Well I found a perfect song to try an headphone, particularly for those of you that have a lot of cans. The song is called "Splanky".There are only three acoustic bass playing but how they play! I think that hearing this song in a headphone it is a heavenly experience: one bass in the left channel, one opposite in the right channel and another in the middle that pluck the h... out of the tune: Is there any better way to know if a can has an excellent bass range? I think not and I must say that my Senn HD-800 has brillianty pass this test! In some passages I clearly heard like if someone was knocking on my eardrums! Naturally to own an tube amply like our beloved WooAudio ampli helps immensely (to tell the truth also to have a Naim 555 cdp is not a bad choice!). So guys why don't you download (or rip or stream, I am a complete ignorant about liquid music!) this song and then you play with each and everyone of your beautiful cans and than let us know which one offers you, IYHO, the best reproduction of this take? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Clayton SF

Good morning, Citizens of Wooville!
   
  On the explicit advice of Silent One I went to visit the Soundman--an audiologist. The result of one of yesterday's tests: He looked in both of my ears and found nothing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Conclusion: Well I have normal hearing but he only tested me at 125 Hz, 250 Hz, 500 Hz, 1000 Hz, 2000 Hz, 3000Hz, 4000 Hz, and 8000 Hz.
   
  I asked him to go higher and he said NO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  TURN IT UP, BABY!
  He said he only tested the speech frequencies--the most important range. Then asked me to repeat some words he spoke: Woo, Tube, Cash, Broke, Fun, More, Fun, New, Fun.
   
  Anyway, my left ear is not as good as my right--I knew that.
  I said I wanted to hear a dog whistle. Not a dog whistling, mind you, but a whistle that a dog can hear.
  So now I can go back to my WA22 and armory of amps and know that if I wanted to hear what I'm missing on the left channel I need to switch the L/R IC cables. Darn--getting on in years is not fun. But at least I'm still normal--with my hearing at least.


----------



## LUMAZ

Last post of the day for me!
  Guys, in your opinion, what are the principal differences between a solid state ampli and a tube ampli or to better phrase my thought, what are the ups and the downs of each of this kind of amplifiers?
  I ask for your opinion because I have always thought that a ss ampli has better transient responses than a tube ampli but yesterday evening on listening to Christian McBride "Gettin' to it" CD, I was amazed (sorry if it is not the correct English word!) at how fast, superfast, was the transient' s answer. Incredible! I didn't think that my WA22 could reach an incredible level like this but I believe that much of this performance come from Naim 555 cdp because it is really a superfast source, able to give super fast (and precise) informations to the ampli connected. As a matter of fact, in these days, my WA22 is really smiling and it is very happy (like his proud owner!)
  Thanks for today and see you tomorrow!
  Have a nice day to all (me I am preparing for another great evening of musical pleasures! Ah music! What would it be life without music?).


----------



## dannie01

I follow you, Clayton. Woo, Tube, Cash, Broke, Fun, More, Fun, New, Fun. ...............................
   
  I should have visit an audiologist, too. I have too much music enjoyment with my Woo, 3 to 4 hrs every night at least before go to sleep.  
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I asked him to go higher and he said NO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Just to confirm, on my WA22 minimum volume is @ 6 0'clock.
> 
> Yes, I do think source voltage is one a possible difference. My owners manual has the following:
> • Connectors: XLR gold-plated
> ...


 

 This is good to know, thank you.  I'm starting to listen to vinyl now and I have to turn my volume much higher and I was wondering if that was ok.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good morning, Citizens of Wooville!
> 
> On the explicit advice of Silent One I went to visit the Soundman--an audiologist. The result of one of yesterday's tests: He looked in both of my ears and found nothing.
> 
> ...


 

 I like the words.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good morning, Citizens of Wooville!
> 
> On the explicit advice of Silent One I went to visit the Soundman--an audiologist. The result of one of yesterday's tests: He looked in both of my ears and found nothing.
> 
> ...


 

 Well done, Clayton! Tonight, don't forget about Rachelle Farrell on your Upscale Audio Sampler for your WA22. As I commented about her before:
   
  "I definitely have Rachelle Farrell in my library ("Welcome To My Love" - 1993) - she's got a 6+ Octave range and can sing in Whistler range. Dogs bark, Dolphins dance..."


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well done, Clayton! Tonight, don't forget about Rachelle Farrell on your Upscale Audio Sampler for your WA22. As I commented about her before:
> 
> "I definitely have Rachelle Farrell in my library ("Welcome To My Love" - 1993) - she's got a 6+ Octave range and can sing in Whistler range. Dogs bark, Dolphins dance..."


 

 Get this on from Rachel  "autumn Leaves" from her CD "First Instrument"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Get this on from Rachel  "autumn Leaves" from her CD "First Instrument"


 


  WarriorAnt! 
   
  Masterful... simply masterful! That was the single best 10 minutes I spent on any recent Tuesday. She stirred my afternoon tea! (no worries, I have the AC on inside). I feel like I should gift you a vacuum tube. Will wait for your late summer purchase.




   
  Hope Clayton gets a chance to see this! I'd love to see Rachelle perform live at an intimate smokey Jazz night club (sans the smoke) complete with hardwood floors, acoustics to die for and seating capacity of no more than 36!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> WarriorAnt!
> 
> Masterful... simply masterful! That was the single best 10 minutes I spent on any recent Tuesday. She stirred my afternoon tea! (no worries, I have the AC on inside). I feel like I should gift you a vacuum tube. Will wait for your late summer purchase.
> 
> ...


 
  My brain is telling me to get a Woo.  I had a dream last night I was back in NY and was interviewing Jack and someone else at Woo about his amps and his business.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My brain is telling me to get a Woo.  I had a dream last night I was back in NY and was interviewing Jack and someone else at Woo about his amps and his business.


 

 Analysis _____
   
  You know, this could be a sign or a trace... or a receipt!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *WarriorAnt! *
> Masterful... simply masterful! That was the single best 10 minutes I spent on any recent Tuesday. She stirred my afternoon tea! (no worries, I have the AC on inside). I feel like I should gift you a vacuum tube. Will wait for your late summer purchase.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, gents. Great video. Great voice. I had never heard of her until I got that demo CD from Upscale Audio. You must come over to listen to the rest of the CD.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks, gents. Great video. Great voice. I had never heard of her until I got that demo CD from Upscale Audio. You must come over to listen to the rest of the CD.


 


  I've got to hear the Frenchman from that CD on your '22'... Beta & Woo! Perhaps, when you recover from Jet lag.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Here is another great voice that is really a GEM for audio reproduction.  Sorry to derail the thread but I feel it is my duty to post this tune for any living breathing Audiophile to enjoy.  To legally keep on topic, this is THE FIRST TUNE I'll listen on a Woo if I can get the courage to buy a tube amp...   PM me if you can't find this tune...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the feedback Xcaliber. So is it a given that the 3-hole Bad Boys have the copper center grid pins? That would make sense that they sound different if that is a hard and fast rule.
> 
> Yes, they are the same tubes, just different angles.


 
  Yes, it is widely believed that real Bad Boys only have copper grid pins.  There is more lore and heresay than fact when it comes to these tubes to be honest, but I can say that even if the tubes were made with both types it is the copper ones you want regardless.  I've been able to directly compare tubes where this is the only difference and I always find copper to be better.  Part of that is from my preferences for treble presentation no doubt.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I think I'll hold out for more impressions on the 6em7 first.  I'm using RCA 6DE7s + coke bottle RCA 5u4g on my WA6SE, don't like the 6ew7s in this amp, too muddy.


 


  If you don't like the 6EW7 in terms of tone and pacing then you might not like the 6SN7 or 7N7 either.  Good 6SN7 are not "lazy" sounding like the 6EW7 tends to be, but they are still on that side of the spectrum in terms of PRaT.  The 6SN7 is miles ahead in its presentation of three dimensional sound space as well as resolving inner detail and texture, but doesn't really convey power or speed in a recording that well.  The 6EM7 or 6DN7 might make a good compromise but the only way to know is to try it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've got to hear the Frenchman from that CD on your '22'... Beta & Woo! Perhaps, when you recover from Jet lag.


 
  And the Woo4, too! Betcha nevah heard a 4 be4!
  And when I return from Amsterdam the Liquid Fire will here too!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And the Woo4, too! Betcha nevah heard a 4 be4!
> And when I return from Amsterdam the Liquid Fire will here too!


 


  You pulled the trigger on a LF?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Was I fortunate to have you play the WA4 for me on my previous visit, I can't remember? And why did Jack walk away from the WA4?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You pulled the trigger on a LF?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe the new amps have the soul of the 4's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Maybe the new amps have the soul of the 4's.


 

 Excellent thinking. Perhaps, found a better way to take advantage of a pre-existing design. We see this often happen with auto manufacturers. A design ahead of its time by having poor implementation that doesn't take advantage of the new engine or chassis or something.
   
  I've always enjoyed looking at Clayton's collection, it really is boutique material.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Maybe the new amps have the soul of the 4's.


 
  Now in the "Science forum"  they would argue that amps don't have souls...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Maybe the new amps have the soul of the 4's.
> 
> Originally Posted by *SilentOne*
> 
> ...


 
  No. I think the LF shot me first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and, Silent One, I did not have the WA4 when you visited.
   
  To my ear it is in a class of its own. Such strength and presence and warmth that I would equate to standing behind the Rolls Royce Jet Engine of a 747. Okay, maybe not. But this sucker has Black Gates and Vcaps maximus! and sound like it too.
   
  See:


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Now in the "Science forum"  they would argue that amps don't have souls...


 

 I would argue that it is only tube amps that have the _capacity to receive a soul_, and that the soul of that amp is interchangeable, or _rollable_, since it is all in the tube.
   
  But not in the Sound Science forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, thanks for posting those videos, I liked that last one even better than the one before it, as you said the AQ is very nice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No. I think the LF shot me first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  No wonder I could not mentally index it (WA4), of course! This photograph is very mesmerizing... look at all the decadent candy inside!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I would argue that it is only tube amps that have the _capacity to receive a soul_, and that the soul of that amp is interchangeable, or _rollable_, since it is all in the tube.
> 
> But not in the Sound Science forum
> 
> ...


 

 For me, it was just the opposite. The AQ in the second video was nice. But I liked the first one so much better. In that video, one could hear-see-feel the electricity crackling through the air. For me, a far more moving experience. But that's one of the things that make this hobby great, we enjoy our shared diversity.


----------



## Silent One

Is anyone currently running their Woo 'naked' plugged directly into the wall? Or via strips, conditioners, regenerators? For those of you going into the wall, notice any improvements with dynamics or resolution?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I would argue that it is only tube amps that have the _capacity to receive a soul_, and that the soul of that amp is interchangeable, or _rollable_, since it is all in the tube.
> 
> But not in the Sound Science forum
> 
> ...


 
  For me the soul of an amp is in it's capacitors...and I'll argue that in the science forum any day.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> No. I think the LF shot me first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I love all those high quality caps.


----------



## kchew

@Xcalibur255: Your Sylvania 6SN7 shootout was a fantastic read, thanks for all the hard work! I wish it came out earlier though, I pulled the trigger on a pair of Bad Boys and 6SN7Ws from Paul at Audiogon earlier, I should've asked him if he stocked those tall plate Sylvanias you reviewed. Still, I can't wait for my Bad Boys to arrive!
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Is anyone currently running their Woo 'naked' plugged directly into the wall? Or via strips, conditioners, regenerators? For those of you going into the wall, notice any improvements with dynamics or resolution?


 


 My WA22 is plugged to an Oyaide MTB-4 power strip, absolutely no complaints with it although my friend keeps telling me the Gigawatt PF-1 is better...


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA4, Leben, beta22, are all plugged into a cheap power strip connected to an extension cord which is connected to an outlet that is not grounded. I have no complaints. Also, no one else, save Silent One, has heard this system and he had had nothing but praise for the WA22's sound when it was plugged into this same line.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> My WA4, Leben, beta22, are all plugged into a cheap power strip connected to an extension cord which is connected to an outlet that is not grounded. I have no complaints. Also, no one else, save Silent One, has heard this system and he had had nothing but praise for the WA22's sound when it was plugged into this same line.


 

 Hello guys and please excuse me if sometimes I write too much and I become boring!
  My WA22 is not plugged directly into the wall but it is plugged into a mains conditioner (the Italian's Nightingale) that give to it more body, presence, bass frequency and silence (and thus air) between the voice and the intruments. Instead I had removed my Naim from the conditioner because it had bad influence on his trasparency and cleanness. (It is right to say that Naim's external power supply costs more than the double of my Nightingale and so it purifies directly by himself the sound).
  Why anyone of you has ever answered to my question about the utility (or no?) of modify a Woo ampli? I am dubious about it and I need some good advice!
  Also, anyone of you has ever heard the song "Splanky"? And do you know the Italian pop singer Mina. If you want, please watch at this link.
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE2nToNs1Hw 
  It is an old black and white Italian television Video (made in 1967) where she sings and scats wonderfully: Louis Armstrong, Liza Minnelli, Frank Sinatra and other American artists consider her one of the most great singers of the XX century.
  GIve me your opinions, thanks!
  
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Is anyone currently running their Woo 'naked' plugged directly into the wall? Or via strips, conditioners, regenerators? For those of you going into the wall, notice any improvements with dynamics or resolution?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Is anyone currently running their Woo 'naked' plugged directly into the wall? Or via strips, conditioners, regenerators? For those of you going into the wall, notice any improvements with dynamics or resolution?


 

 I am have mine connected to a dedicated line with Furutech outlet and Auricaps in it. I have my Threshold 550e and my WA5-LE connected in that dual outlet but I never have both on at the saem time anyway.
   
  The main difference I noticed was lower floor noise not having anything else in the circuit.


----------



## SpudHarris

Hello Guys,
   
  I've not posted here in a while as my dream of owning a WA22 kind of fell through because of personal issues and sadly I don't think I'll every get to own one   and I was soooo close at one point I could almost touch it......  I don't want to derail the thread so I'll be brief...
   
  I have two or three nice pairs of tubes which I collected over time listed along with my WA6, I don't have a classified for any of them specifically so if you are looking you may not know I have them. The WA6 etc... is in my signature. Please don't post on here and get me flamed, like I said I don't derail the thread, just PM me if interested in any of them.
   
  Thanks guys


----------



## Icenine2

MM,
   
  Did you get the cool Furutech Carbon Fiber cover plate?  I don't need one but really want one!
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am have mine connected to a dedicated line with Furutech outlet and Auricaps in it. I have my Threshold 550e and my WA5-LE connected in that dual outlet but I never have both on at the saem time anyway.
> 
> The main difference I noticed was lower floor noise not having anything else in the circuit.


----------



## Icenine2

Clay,
   
  Looks like people walking beneath the skyscrapers!
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And the Woo4, too! Betcha nevah heard a 4 be4!
> And when I return from Amsterdam the Liquid Fire will here too!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ you're funny! Great observation. I'm going to pick up some Lego people (Star Wars maybe?) and replace the tubes with the Legos for a photo shoot! Now I know where I'm going this afternoon. There's a toy store on Market Street.....


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> For me the soul of an amp is in it's capacitors...and I'll argue that in the science forum any day.


 

 I was thinking about this the other day and wondering about the place of capacitors in an amp.  Why are capacitors so important?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I was thinking about this the other day and wondering about the place of capacitors in an amp.  Why are capacitors so important?


 
  Isn't it the reservoir for electrical energy? It's responsible for the fast recovery of spent electrical energy that set your headphones on fire in the first place.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Isn't it the reservoir for electrical energy? It's responsible for the fast recovery of spent electrical energy that set your headphones on fire in the first place.


 

 Sure, but what makes them the most important part of an amp?  Why are they so important?  Is bigger always better?  Would I want to get the biggest physical caps I could for my WA22?


----------



## Clayton SF

Perhaps you should ask _*jc9394 *_and _*danny01*_ about caps. You want caps--they got caps in their WA22.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sure, but what makes them the most important part of an amp?  Why are they so important?  Is bigger always better?  Would I want to get the biggest physical caps I could for my WA22?


 

 Check out the link and description of these caps.  I can't give you scientific data as to why they are important but caps seem to have a big influence on the sound.  There's something about about the way they charge and release their energy that plays an important role. 
   
  http://www.v-cap.com/products.php


----------



## MilesDavis2

Just got my WA6 today. Still in the office and I can't wait to get home. Would like to thank Csericks, Grokit, Nova 13, SilentOne, Skylab, X_Calibur255 for steering me in the right direction.  Thank you.


----------



## bobeau

FWIW, just purchased sillysally's maxxed WA6SE.  So now I have 2 of these amps at my disposal, the stock and now this maxxed one which should be showing up next week.  Will post impression on the difference once I take delivery.  The stock one will definitely be let go though, do prefer my DNA Sonett to it, though not by any significant margin.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Perhaps you should ask _*jc9394 *_and _*danny01*_ about caps. You want caps--they got caps in their WA22.


 

 Where did he get his WA22 modded.  Is it offered to be done, or is it private.


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Check out the link and description of these caps.  I can't give you scientific data as to why they are important but caps seem to have a big influence on the sound.  There's something about about the way they charge and release their energy that plays an important role.
> 
> http://www.v-cap.com/products.php


 


 This looks good, I'll read it.  Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> Just got my WA6 today. Still in the office and I can't wait to get home. Would like to thank Csericks, Grokit, Nova 13, SilentOne, Skylab, X_Calibur255 for steering me in the right direction.  Thank you.


 

 Congrats on your new Woo!  What are you going to play first and what cans do you have?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My WA4, Leben, beta22, are all plugged into a cheap power strip connected to an extension cord which is connected to an outlet that is not grounded. I have no complaints. Also, no one else, save Silent One, has heard this system and he had had nothing but praise for the WA22's sound when it was plugged into this same line.


 

 Armed ___
   
  I came to see Clayton SF armed with 900 hours on my D5000's and a small sampling of my own music. Upon hearing Astrud Gilberto, if her sweet, lush and feather light vocals didn't float across the room (head-space) due to grunge or artifacts, I'd have discerned right then and there! But this also means he is lucky; some listening rooms simply cannot escape being shielded or grounded.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> Just got my WA6 today. Still in the office and I can't wait to get home. Would like to thank Csericks, Grokit, Nova 13, SilentOne, Skylab, X_Calibur255 for steering me in the right direction.  Thank you.


 

 You're welcome and congrats out to you! I too, would like to know what's the very first track you have in mind for your Woo's initiation? And by the way, MilesDavis2, if you're at work... stop looking at the clock! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What's more - Csericks, Grokit, Nova 13, Skylab & Xcalibur255, great member participation!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> FWIW, just purchased sillysally's maxxed WA6SE.  So now I have 2 of these amps at my disposal, the stock and now this maxxed one which should be showing up next week.  Will post impression on the difference once I take delivery.  The stock one will definitely be let go though, do prefer my DNA Sonett to it, though not by any significant margin.


 

 Congrats to both you and sillysally! You because the purchase of his amp means you're staying 'Woo.' And to him because Woo amps deserve attention and his wasn't in the rotation; the closet mind you. Also, what are you doing for a DAC? During the year I've had thoughts on getting a second 6SE if I couldn't rise up and get a WA22. You have two 6SE's, I've have two DACs. Maybe we could explore a trade... sending PM after I get lunch and afternoon tea.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My WA4, Leben, beta22, are all plugged into a cheap power strip connected to an extension cord which is connected to an outlet that is not grounded. I have no complaints. Also, no one else, save Silent One, has heard this system and he had had nothing but praise for the WA22's sound when it was plugged into this same line.


 

 X2, I have used a UPS for power isolation in the past but not right now but we seem to have pretty clean power where I live, I've never had any noise in any component except for when I tried the Lyr. The power does blink on/off or blacks out occasionally, so I should probably get a UPS back on line at least. Right now I just have a whole-house surge arrester/noise filter and power strips.
   
   
  Quote: 





			
				MilesDavis2 said:
			
		

> Just got my WA6 today. Still in the office and I can't wait to get home. Would like to thank Csericks, Grokit, Nova 13, SilentOne, Skylab, X_Calibur255 for steering me in the right direction.  Thank you.


 
   
  Any time!
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats to both you and sillysally! You because the purchase of his amp means you're staying 'Woo.' And to him because Woo amps deserve attention and his wasn't in the rotation; the closet mind you. Also, what are you doing for a DAC? During the year I've had thoughts on getting a second 6SE if I couldn't rise up and get a WA22. You have two 6SE's, I've have two DACs. Maybe we could explore a trade... sending PM after I get lunch and afternoon tea.


 

 X3, welcome to Wooville!


----------



## Arcamera

Glad to see I'm not the only Woo newbie (Woobie?) here!
   
  Today I placed an order with Jack for the WA3 (plus tubes upgrade). This will be my first tube amp. I'm looking forward to a decent combo with my T1's, DT880's and HD650's. Much to learn still. And when funds eventually permit I'm sure I will be eyeing one of the better Woo models, and thinking about another higher-end amp for my low-impedance cans like the D7000's and HP1000's (for those I have the very fine Burson). But for now, getting started.


----------



## MilesDavis2

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Congrats on your new Woo!  What are you going to play first and what cans do you have?


 

  
  I have the HD600 and the DT880 600 ohms. I got the WA6 to power the DT880. As for the music to test the amp later, I am planning to listen to:
   
  Gary Burton/Chick Cora - The New Crystal Silence
  Michael Brecker - Time is of the Essence, and
  Bill Evan/Tony Bennett album


----------



## MilesDavis2

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're welcome and congrats out to you! I too, would like to know what's the very first track you have in mind for your Woo's initiation? And by the way, MilesDavis2, if you're at work... stop looking at the clock!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> I have the HD600 and the DT880 600 ohms. I got the WA6 to power the DT880. As for the music to test the amp later, I am planning to listen to:
> 
> Gary Burton/Chick Cora - The New Crystal Silence
> Michael Brecker - Time is of the Essence, and
> Bill Evan/Tony Bennett album


 


  Looking at the above post, I'd say you've anticipated very well! I chose Abraham Laboriel's "Holidays" as my maiden track...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only Woo newbie (Woobie?) here!
> 
> Today I placed an order with Jack for the WA3 (plus tubes upgrade). This will be my first tube amp. I'm looking forward to a decent combo with my T1's, DT880's and HD650's. Much to learn still. And when funds eventually permit I'm sure I will be eyeing one of the better Woo models, and thinking about another higher-end amp for my low-impedance cans like the D7000's and HP1000's (for those I have the very fine Burson). But for now, getting started.


 

 Congrats Arcamera.  Your're going to love your Woo.


----------



## Clayton SF

x2 Congratulations, Arcamera. I am loving the fact that you're going to love your Woo. A Woobie. A Freshman (Wooshman).


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sure, but what makes them the most important part of an amp?  Why are they so important?  Is bigger always better?  Would I want to get the biggest physical caps I could for my WA22?


 

 Without getting very technical the capacitors in your amp do two things. first is the electrolytic capacitors they are the black-gate caps you see in the modded picture.
    The amp really runs on the charge on these caps. The rectifier 5U4 takes the AC voltage and changes it to pulsating DC these caps charge during the pulse and
  the amp runs on the charge in between the pulses. Different types of these caps can discharge faster into the amp faster when the amp needs power and this can change the speed
  and transient response of the amp.
    The other caps in the picture V caps are coupling caps they are in between the 6SN7 and 6AS7 tubes. They block DC and let AC the audio through. So they block the
  high voltage DC on the plate of the 6SN7 and pass the audio through to the grid of the 6AS7s That are at 0 volts or a negative voltage.
    The coupling caps have the biggest in pact on the sound.  A capacitor is really two metal plates with a insulator in between them so if took two plates and put a piece of
  plastic in between them you have a crude capacitor. the insulator is the dielectric and different materials sound different capacitors use Polycarbonate , Polypropylene ,Polyester
   Polystyrene , Teflon/PTFE , and paper soaked in oil as the dielectric.
     I prefer the sound of Paper in oil or Teflon the best. I sound my amps to my headphones and prefer paper in oil to tame the HD800s that I use 90% of the time


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Without getting very technical the capacitors in your amp do two things. first is the electrolytic capacitors they are the black-gate caps you see in the modded picture.
> The amp really runs on the charge on these caps. The rectifier 5U4 takes the AC voltage and changes it to pulsating DC these caps charge during the pulse and
> the amp runs on the charge in between the pulses. Different types of these caps can discharge faster into the amp faster when the amp needs power and this can change the speed
> and transient response of the amp.
> ...


 

 Thanks Glen, this was very interesting.  Now I know a little more about how capacitor's effect performance.


----------



## MilesDavis2

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looking at the above post, I'd say you've anticipated very well! I chose Abraham Laboriel's "Holidays" as my maiden track...


 


 Actually I didn't realize. A friend of mine from Concord records gave me a CD sampler, female jazz vocalists-here and then.  Need some jazz vocals to initiate the amp.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> FWIW, just purchased sillysally's maxxed WA6SE.  So now I have 2 of these amps at my disposal, the stock and now this maxxed one which should be showing up next week.  Will post impression on the difference once I take delivery.  The stock one will definitely be let go though, do prefer my DNA Sonett to it, though not by any significant margin.


 

 Thanks bobeau,
   
  Yes it will be interesting what the differences between a non parts upgrade and a parts upgrade WA6SE will sound like. Before I packaged your amp and tubes, I tried the tubes just to be sure they worked in your amp, yes they all worked. But I had forgotten how nice that WA6SE of yours/mine sounds, now I remember why I didn't want to sell it. I hope you enjoy that Amp and tubes as much as I did.
   
  btw, I used a Black Sand Violet Z1 power cord for that amp, but for the big difference in price the Iron Lung Jellyfish sounds almost as good.
   
  Sorry guys about not wanting to sell the tubes to those of you that PM about them, but now bobeau will have them.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Without getting very technical the capacitors in your amp do two things. first is the electrolytic capacitors they are the black-gate caps you see in the modded picture.
> The amp really runs on the charge on these caps. The rectifier 5U4 takes the AC voltage and changes it to pulsating DC these caps charge during the pulse and
> the amp runs on the charge in between the pulses. Different types of these caps can discharge faster into the amp faster when the amp needs power and this can change the speed
> and transient response of the amp.
> ...


 

 Cap speak!   Where do manufacturers get Black Gate caps these days?  Is there still an abundance on the market or is it NOS somehow or is there a rebrand going on?


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Congrats Arcamera.  Your're going to love your Woo.


 


   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2 Congratulations, Arcamera. I am loving the fact that you're going to love your Woo. A Woobie. A Freshman (Wooshman).


 


 Lol Thanks! This thread has been wonderful. Now to try and catch up on the other 800 or so pages I missed...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Without getting very technical the capacitors in your amp do two things. first is the electrolytic capacitors they are the black-gate caps you see in the modded picture.
> The amp really runs on the charge on these caps. The rectifier 5U4 takes the AC voltage and changes it to pulsating DC these caps charge during the pulse and
> the amp runs on the charge in between the pulses. Different types of these caps can discharge faster into the amp faster when the amp needs power and this can change the speed
> and transient response of the amp.
> ...


 

 cafe/tea/reading... 
   
  ...They all go well together! No sooner than I sat down with an elegant cup of green tea, you post this magnificent read... thanks Glenn (as always, for the education)! And a special thanks to mikemalter bringing the question forth to begin with. Sometimes, I wonder about things but don't readily ask. Then, following the discussion it eventually gets shaken from the tree of knowledge.
   
  This is a great great thread. Wonder what kind of valuation Wall Street would place on 'Woo Audio Owner Unite' thread?'


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> Lol Thanks! This thread has been wonderful. Now to try and catch up on the other 800 or so pages I missed...


 

 Welcome Arcamera, welcome! We look forward to your contributions...


----------



## sillysally

Yes I really like the black-gates also, I had Jack upgrade both my WA6SE (gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and my WA5LE with black-gates when I ordered them.
   
  Its really to bad that Jack doesn't offer the black-gate upgrade on the WA6SE anymore.
   
  Plus I saw that the upgrade parts for the WA5LE has been reduced (not price) in what Jack is using now for the upgrade package from what he used in my WA5LE.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> For me the _*soul *_of an amp is in it's capacitors...and I'll argue that in the science forum any day.


 
  Spot on, chap!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I really like the black-gates also, I had Jack upgrade both my WA6SE (gone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Isn't the Black-gates scarcity due to the group holding license/permissions for the caps issuing a cease & desist order?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats to both you and sillysally! You because the purchase of his amp means you're staying 'Woo.' And to him because Woo amps deserve attention and his wasn't in the rotation; the closet mind you. Also, what are you doing for a DAC? During the year I've had thoughts on getting a second 6SE if I couldn't rise up and get a WA22. You have two 6SE's, I've have two DACs. Maybe we could explore a trade... sending PM after I get lunch and afternoon tea.


 

 Thanks!  I pledge no affiliation, just in exploratory mode and buying selling equipment like mad to find my 'sound'... the Sonett is a stunningly good amp to my ears and I love it dearly in the month or so I've been using it. Maybe it's just synergy with my Edition 8s.  Currently using an old Ack! Dack 2.0 w/ high res caps as source, an HDP from time to time, have a Schiit Bifrost on order.  Also considering a Rega DAC.  I'm pretty much an anti-sigma delta type, recently sold 2 Saber 9018 DACs (EE MiniMax and Anedio D1).  I am very curious to see how a maxxed out WA6SE performs, will probably hold onto both it and the Sonett for the next several months as I tinker with other stuff in the chain.  Also just picked up a metal base GZ34 to roll into both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thanks bobeau,
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks sillysally, again you've been awesome.  I have no idea why you let this thing go so cheaply, but it was at a price I just couldn't refuse.

 This was actually my dream amp about 6 months ago back when I started getting into head-fi again.  The greatness of the Sonett did blindside me a bit, so pitting them against each other will be too much fun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  If the maxxed SE is the victor I do ultimately expect to get the de facto EML 5u4g mesh so both 274b tubes will eventually be for sale.  Yes, someone already contacted me offline about it lol.  I have a generic volex 14 guage power cable I bought for like $15 years ago (mentioned on head-fi to be as good as jellyfish) and a belkin pureaudio power conditioner that I run all the audio stuff off of, somewhat low-midgrade but it sounds good to me.


----------



## Clayton SF

If the Black Gate brand is gone, then what is the _new _Black Gate?


----------



## Silent One

From Wikipedia and some retailers, it's a license issue... someone else would need to get permission.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> If the Black Gate brand is gone, then what is the _new _Black Gate?


 

  
  There is none that compare  Motor run capacitors are better then Black Gate or any other Electrolytic type capacitor But they are to large to fit in most commercial made amps.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Cap speak!   Where do manufacturers get Black Gate caps these days?  Is there still an abundance on the market or is it NOS somehow or is there a rebrand going on?


 

 Thay are all NOS and some of the most common values have run out


----------



## bobeau

Are v-caps (and other high end subs) not as well regarded?
   
  I guess what I mean, is it not because of lore due to Black Gates having  a long and storied history as audiophile grade stuff that it's taking time for newer options to sink in?


----------



## jc9394

The mod was done my Danny himself and when he upgraded to WA5LE, I bought his WA22.  I kind of being an evil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and pushed Danny off the edge to get the WA5LE.
   
  Here is the updated phone after both HK post and USPS gave the WA22 a special massage during the flight over the big big pond.  I have to ship it to Jack to fix whatever they break.
   

   
  On sonic difference, I have not compare stock WA22 and my WA22 using the same tube set side by side, would love to but did not have a chance or know anyone have the same tube set.  I do have a WA6 and WA6 maxxed at the same time before and was using the same tubes (Mullard GZ34 and Sylvania 6FD7).  I can clearly heard the difference using AD2000 and HD600 at the time.  The bass is very well controlled with authority on the modded one while stock is slightly loose.  The biggest surprise is on the mids, the Senn veil is lifted and extremely liquid smooth female vocal, I was lost when Diana Krall sings, reminds me when I saw her live at the Montreal Jazz festival in 2004. 
  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Where did he get his WA22 modded.  Is it offered to be done, or is it private.


----------



## Clevor

So Blackgates were made by Rubicon, huh? Commonly found on good computer motherboards - and in my Toshiba HDD recorders, as they spared nothing in the manufacture. Yeah I heard Blackgates are no longer available so just limited to supply on hand. Either Jack had a stash or he knew some supplier who still had them.
   
  I just got my WA5SE and was kinda disappointed about the same price for the SE upgrade, but less components, but Jack told me the other stuff wasn't necessary. However Jack said they have been doing ongoing improvements to their amps so the latest iteration of any of their amps should be sounding the best it can be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  What about resistors? I've heard about the famous Vishay resistors and I could hear an improvement when my electronics tech friend installed them in a SS amp he made for me. I think those are only used in SS amps???
   
  Also what do Blackgates do to the sound? Does it make it more dynamic, punchy, or cleaner sounding? My WA5SE sounds like all of that with stock tubes, and it only has around 15 hours on it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clevor said:


> Also what do Blackgates do to the sound? Does it make it more dynamic, punchy, or cleaner sounding? My WA5SE sounds like all of that with stock tubes, and it only has around 15 hours on it.


 

 To me, it is more dynamic and smoother (can probably say cleaner too).  I listen a lot of female vocal, so it is worth every pennies to me.  You have a long way to go before the BGs settle down, it takes my WA6 around 500 hours to burn in.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I do have a WA6 and WA6 maxxed at the same time before and was using the same tubes (Mullard GZ34 and Sylvania 6FD7).  I can clearly heard the difference using AD2000 and HD600 at the time.  The bass is very well controlled with authority on the modded one while stock is slightly loose.  The biggest surprise is on the mids, the Senn veil is lifted and extremely liquid smooth female vocal, I was lost when Diana Krall sings, reminds me when I saw her live at the Montreal Jazz festival in 2004.


 
   
  Ahh... this definitely sets my heart aflutter.  Can't wait to hear this for myself.


----------



## Clayton SF

Look a whole pod of Vcaps in a Woo WES. Is there no end to this? This is a Woo Amp I'd really love to hear.
   
  This amp actually has two 12AU7 tubes attached to its rear plate.


----------



## sachu

The VCAPs are nice enough to use for coupling capacitor duty, but i seem to prefer the AmpOms over them. I need to get another set to replace the VCaps in my Stacker 2 amplifier.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Look a whole pod of Vcaps in a Woo WES. Is there no end to this? This is a Woo Amp I'd really love to hear.
> 
> This amp actually has two 12AU7 tubes attached to its rear plate.


 


  Looking at sweets while dining on savory doesn't always work - a dinner distracted!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Are v-caps (and other high end subs) not as well regarded?
> 
> I guess what I mean, is it not because of lore due to Black Gates having  a long and storied history as audiophile grade stuff that it's taking time for newer options to sink in?


 


  V caps are well regarded.  I've seen them in use for a very long time.  I think the recent iteration of V caps indicate they have really stepped up their game.   But there are a lot of companies making high quality caps now.  I don't know how they rate according to V caps but I think they may be a  more affordable choice if not quite up to V caps.
   
  I posted this list of caps in the Vintage Receiver thread, if anyone has experience with them I'd like to know. 
   
   
   

  AudioCap™  Theta Film and Foil Capacitor

  Stolen Metallized Polyproylene Capacitors

  Dayton Audio Precision 1% Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors

  Auricap Metallized Film Capacitors

  Kimber Kap Metallized Film Capacitors

  Jantzen Silver series Z-Capacitors

  Jantzen Superior Series Z-Capacitors

  MusiCap Coupling Capacitors-Foil & Polypropylene Film

  JJ Electronic Axial Lead Electrolytic


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sachu said:


> The VCAPs are nice enough to use for coupling capacitor duty, but i seem to prefer the AmpOms over them. I need to get another set to replace the VCaps in my Stacker 2 amplifier.


 

 Sachu, so you like AmpOms over the V caps?  
   
  Are these the ones?
  http://thetubestore.com/ampohm.html
   
  They seem reasonably priced also.


----------



## grokit

So does changing caps have the potential to affect the sound more than a change of tubes, is it the other way around, or is it just different?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is a great great thread. Wonder what kind of valuation Wall Street would place on 'Woo Audio Owner Unite' thread?'


 

 Heh, most likely the _wrong_ kind, as in _monetary_.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Isn't the Black-gates scarcity due to the group holding license/permissions for the caps issuing a cease & desist order?


 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> From Wikipedia and some retailers, it's a license issue... someone else would need to get permission.


 


 So Jelmax closed their doors, and then issued a cease and desist order? That seems like a somewhat Richard's nicknamish move. I wonder what's behind that, why they don't just license their technology out for an exorbitant fee


----------



## Xcalibur255

I wouldn't look at caps as a means of altering tone personally.  Superior quality caps have the ability to improve transparency and prevent altering or smearing the original input signal.  I think the greatest effect of any good cap is a more "true to life" sound.
   
  The only boutique caps I've had personal experience with are Auricaps in use in my Virtue Audio desktop amp.  I quite like their sound, and had the chance to compare them against a more generic cap in the same amp before the upgrade.  The Auricaps are a more liquid sound, far more transparent with more realistic dynamics.  They also come across as a touch warm, especially in the mids.  Some people complain about a bit of a harsh glare in the upper mid or lower treble range, and I can see this being an issue with some types of equipment/speakers/headphones but I can't say it was ever an issue for me.
   
  Personally I'd love to try or hear the Mundorf Supreme Silver in Oil caps.  My tentative plan is to have my WA22 built with them, but I've heard people say they are prone to early failure in high temperature environments such as tube amps which has me re-thinking the plan.  The new Auricaps, the Auri-T, are also getting good buzz but they are really expensive, even more so than the Vcaps.  Like everything else audio I imagine diminishing returns kicks in at some point with caps, particularly in relation to the quality and design of the amp they are going into.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Here's a little something about  Auri-T caps.
   
   
  http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_reviews.php
   
   
  http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1235398173
   
   
  http://www.tubedepot.com/auau.html
   
  http://www.jenalabs.com/pages/auricaps.html
   
  And an interesting thread write up from a guy who compares caps...
  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Heh, most likely the _wrong_ kind, as in _monetary_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  To me this suggests a serious falling out - one or more persons could no longer receive the support of others. Or simply no longer wanted to 'do it' (the licensing) and the rest could not go on without this person's votes/shares or something. I'm with you, there's a demand so why not generate income?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Quote:
> Hello guys and please excuse me if sometimes I write too much and I become boring!
> My WA22 is not plugged directly into the wall but it is plugged into a mains conditioner (the Italian's Nightingale) that give to it more body, presence, bass frequency and silence (and thus air) between the voice and the intruments. Instead I had removed my Naim from the conditioner because it had bad influence on his trasparency and cleanness. (It is right to say that Naim's external power supply costs more than the double of my Nightingale and so it purifies directly by himself the sound).
> Why anyone of you has ever answered to my question about the utility (or no?) of modify a Woo ampli? I am dubious about it and I need some good advice!
> ...


 
   
  LUMAZ: You are not boring.  Thank you for introducing us to Mina and for the link. I posted that video on facebook. I have never heard of Mina and what an incredible voice she has. Her instrument commands attention and her body movements are so confident. To be pitch perfect is certainly a gift to say the least! I really liked this video that I posted it on facebook. I know a couple of singers and they will enjoy it. Her video is very 1967! Her voice is attention-getting. I would like to get a CD of her. Perhaps I'll look some up while on my travels next week. What should be my first Mina CD to get?
   
  I have read that some people like to match certain hp / amps / tubes (and mood of course) so that they compliment the female voice.
   
  Silent One: What would be your ideal combo for Astud?
   
  I wonder which caps would enhance the female singers voice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> LUMAZ: You are not boring.  Thank you for introducing us to Mina and for the link. I posted that video on facebook. I have never heard of Mina and what an incredible voice she has. Her instrument commands attention and her body movements are so confident. To be pitch perfect is certainly a gift to say the least! I really liked this video that I posted it on facebook. I know a couple of singers and they will enjoy it. Her video is very 1967! Her voice is attention-getting. I would like to get a CD of her. Perhaps I'll look some up while on my travels next week. What should be my first Mina CD to get?
> 
> I have read that some people like to match certain hp / amps / tubes (and mood of course) so that they compliment the female voice.
> 
> ...


 

 Matching. That's a great question since I really don't roll amps (ok, DACs but...) tubes and headphones. I go for an over musical presentation that compliments Jazz, African, Blues, Soul, Dance ect. It is my hope that the choices I make will have a great all around average with different genres. What has your research lead you to find for your tastes with female vocals? I try to get lucky in this regard.
   
  Of course, all that could change by Labor Day (post Labor Day). Going to try the Mhdt and a new tube or two... and you know Astrud is high in the rotation for samples!
  "Non-Stop To Brazil" will be among her first when I burn-in the Balanced Havana. It seems 'jc9394' might be on to something...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Matching. That's a great question since I really don't roll amps (ok, DACs but...) tubes and headphones. I go for an over musical presentation that compliments Jazz, African, Blues, Soul, Dance ect. It is my hope that the choices I make will have a great all around average with different genres. What has your research lead you to find for your tastes with female vocals? I try to get lucky in this regard.
> 
> Of course, all that could change by Labor Day (post Labor Day). Going to try the Mhdt and a new tube or two...


 

 Bring your DAC over! The artist make the most difference IMHO. For instance: Diana Krall is wonderful with the HD650, and too intimate with the DT900 (I can almost hear her lips separate when she is singing--too close. And the K701 sound like I'm in the studio listening to her which is my preference.
   
  Sara K., on the other hand, is fantastic on both headphones except the DT900 600 ohms can at times sound a little shrilling when listening to her. I think if the engineer shifted some of the higher frequencies from center to off-center it would sound better--to me. But I'm no sound engineer and my hearing is off in my left ear so that could account for the _mal_-imaging (made-up word) in my head. I do listen to Sara K. on the DT990 when I want to highlight the instruments.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Bring your DAC over! The artist make the most difference IMHO. For instance: Diana Krall is wonderful with the HD650, and too intimate with the DT900 (I can almost hear her lips separate when she is singing--too close. And the K701 sound like I'm in the studio listening to her which is my preference.
> 
> Sara K., on the other hand, is fantastic on both headphones except the DT900 600 ohms can at times sound a little shrilling when listening to her. I think if the engineer shifted some of the higher frequencies from center to off-center it would sound better--to me. But I'm no sound engineer and my hearing is off in my left ear so that could account for the _mal_-imaging (made-up word) in my head. I do listen to Sara K. on the DT990 when I want to highlight the instruments.


 

 You're brilliant, Clayton! Bringing the Havana over would allow for time with a balanced diet (you know what I'm trying to say; kinda sleepy this way...). I was looking forward to your safe return from AMS anyway, now I'm looking forward to being dispatched to "_The City That Knows How!_" for a listening session post AMS.


----------



## Clayton SF

It is interesting about balanced diet though--I own an SPL Auditor with balanced inputs and outputs too but it only has a se jack for headphones. Weird, yes? No? Perhaps it is because it is a studio headphone amp and is used to connect to balanced ICs always used when recording. Just a guess.
   
  Anyway, I own two amps with balanced inputs and no balanced headphones and I'm happy. ('cause I have yet to hear a set of balanced headphones to compare to my se stuff.)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is interesting about balanced diet though--I own an SPL Auditor with balanced inputs and outputs too but it only has a se jack for headphones. Weird, yes? No? Perhaps it is because it is a studio headphone amp and is used to connect to balanced ICs always used when recording. Just a guess.
> 
> Anyway, I own two amps with balanced inputs and no balanced headphones and I'm happy. ('cause I have yet to hear a set of balanced headphones to compare to my se stuff.)


 


  Getting re-cabled or an XLR can something you're reviewing? Just peeked out the window, it's getting bright so I'm goin' dark... have a great day in the Bay! Back up after lunch...


----------



## Icenine2

Has everyone seen these crazy headphones Jude reviewed?  Crazy but inspired.  Who knows but I'd love to hear these.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566268/head-fi-tv-episode-010-taket-bpp-portable-supertweeter-and-h2-headphone


----------



## Icenine2

Does anyone have any Woo info for new upcoming product other than the DAC and new amp?  What about that new amp by the way?  Is there any more info if it's a strict headphone amp or preamp combo?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Has everyone seen these crazy headphones Jude reviewed?  Crazy but inspired.  Who knows but I'd love to hear these.


 

 I didn't watch it but I really got a kick out of _*fdhfdy*_'s comment that "People are one step away from putting speakers on their heads. "


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Here's a little something about  Auri-T caps.
> 
> 
> http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_reviews.php
> ...


 

 A few years ago I had a SCD-777ES from Sony and had it modded.  I tried several caps, black gates and auri caps.  I settled on the black gates, but the auri caps were stunning in the 3d soundstage that was presented.  I would have kept them in, but at the time I had speakers that were way too bright and thought the problem was with my system.  So, I interperted the caps as being too bright and intensly three dimensional and settled on the black gates to try to tame my high end.  Knowing what I know now, I should have kept them in.


----------



## Clayton SF

I opened up an amp last night and nearly fell inside.
  These are the caps I found in my amp. Holy moly!
  They must be custom. It is printed Made in France.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I opened up an amp last night and nearly fell inside.
> These are the caps I found in my amp. Holy moly!
> They must be custom. It is printed Made in France.


 

 what amp is that?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> what amp is that?


 
   
  I don't know.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Oh--sorry. It is the Zana Deux SE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  wow, you house is headphone amp museum...next san fran meet will be at Clayton's place


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Not really. I am looking forward to seeing pictures of the balanced b22 when Corey is finished building it for you. He does excellent work (you knew that).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You have a Zana Deux SE!  I almost got one when I was looking at headphone amplifiers, but the waiting list was so long, and they could not tell me when I would be able to take delivery, and Jack could give me a date, so I went Woo.  How does it sound compared to the WA22?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You have a Zana Deux SE!  I almost got one when I was looking at headphone amplifiers, but the waiting list was so long, and they could not tell me when I would be able to take delivery, and Jack could give me a date, so I went Woo.  How does it sound compared to the WA22?


 
   
  I don't know. I use it as a foot stool. j/k.
  You'll have to come over an hear for yourself. I'll PM you about it later. Right now I'm into more important things--I'm having trouble making my mind up on what to pack to take with me. Let me see. Clean underwear or a T50p Tesla? Clean shirt or a WA6?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I don't know. I use it as a foot stool. j/k.
> You'll have to come over an hear for yourself. I'll PM you about it later. Right now I'm into more important things--I'm having trouble making my mind up on what to pack to take with me. Let me see. Clean underwear or a T50p Tesla? Clean shirt or a WA6?


 

 Take the equipment.  If you have a sink you can always wash your clothes and hang them to dry.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A few years ago I had a SCD-777ES from Sony and had it modded.  I tried several caps, black gates and auri caps.  I settled on the black gates, but the auri caps were stunning in the 3d soundstage that was presented.  I would have kept them in, but at the time I had speakers that were way too bright and thought the problem was with my system.  So, I interperted the caps as being too bright and intensly three dimensional and settled on the black gates to try to tame my high end.  Knowing what I know now, I should have kept them in.


 
  Mike, what speakers were they?    Also did you do the modding yourself?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike, what speakers were they?    Also did you do the modding yourself?


 

 The speakers were Energy Veritas 2.3's which are very good home theater speakers for movies, but not music IMHO.  The modding was done by Richard Kern of Audiomod.  They are no longer in business, but they had a nice review in http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue15/kern777.htm


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I opened up an amp last night and nearly fell inside.
> These are the caps I found in my amp. Holy moly!
> They must be custom. It is printed Made in France.


 

 The 4 big capacitors are Solen and the two to the right in the clamps are motor run capacitors


----------



## dannie01

Wow, another Beta22 owner along with Woo amp, that's great jc. Remember post some pics when finished with innards, too.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Not really. I am looking forward to seeing pictures of the balanced b22 when Corey is finished building it for you. He does excellent work (you knew that).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I opened up an amp last night and nearly fell inside.
> These are the caps I found in my amp. Holy moly!
> They must be custom. It is printed Made in France.


 
  Any ID on the make of those transformers?


----------



## dannie01

I don't doubt how the Zana Deux SE sounds but the internal wiring is seem quite messy.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Well since I  originally derailed this thread with nasty capacitor talk here is a nightmare thread just posted about capacitor mods (and other mods) gone nightmare bad.    Is it possible to derail this thread anyway?  
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566728/warning-about-kyle-of-reference-audio-mods


----------



## BrucYSN

Dose anyone have a W11R on a 6sn7 based amp? would like to know the tube rolling possibilities .


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well since I  originally derailed this thread with nasty capacitor talk here is a nightmare thread just posted about capacitor mods (and other mods) gone nightmare bad.    Is it possible to derail this thread anyway?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566728/warning-about-kyle-of-reference-audio-mods


 

 It is not possible to derail this thread.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well since I  originally derailed this thread with nasty capacitor talk here is a nightmare thread just posted about capacitor mods (and other mods) gone nightmare bad.    Is it possible to derail this thread anyway?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566728/warning-about-kyle-of-reference-audio-mods


 
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> It is not possible to derail this thread.


 

  
  You mean 'This' thread? _On what day?!_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> It is not possible to derail this thread.


 
  How can you possibly derail a thread that is not on rails. This thread is an ATV Thread! Woo Woo Woo!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Dose anyone have a W11R on a 6sn7 based amp? would like to know the tube rolling possibilities .


 


  I remember you were having some issue with the WA22 or your system. Did you ever get it resolved?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How can you possibly derail a thread that is not on rails. This thread is an ATV Thread! Woo Woo Woo!!!


 


  I'm still getting use to the idea of seeing both you and mikemalter post after 23:00 hours... is it holiday?!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ What holiday? I am in bed fast asleep. This thread is connected to my brain.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Any ID on the make of those transformers?


 
  I have no idea but here's a close-up of them. Does this help?


----------



## WarriorAnt

anyone read that nightmare mod thread?  It's unbelievable!


----------



## Silent One

It has been a strange week listening to Jazz via computer instead of my usual listening sessions with the Woo. I could enjoy the service of my EMU while the DAC-1 is cooking. Maybe this wekend, perhaps. Currently looking at the Woo, admiring the 6 Special Edition's twin chassis design. Eventually want to take my system off the grid one component at a time. The DAC first, then the Mac followed by the Woo.
   
  I'm wondering if I had a clean rechargeable battery source, would that allow me to do away with the power supply/rectifier/spinning transformer? Straight clean DC Power into the amp for a much cleaner resolution. Hmmm... I know Jack could answer that. And 2359glenn. And many others perhaps, once their late night sessions are over. C'mon people, check your computers before going to bed! Need input...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> anyone read that nightmare mod thread?  It's unbelievable!


 
   
  The horror!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I hope he's able to recover emotionally and financially. Someone needs to keep tabs on this modder so we can avoid another victim. There's a lot of trust and rewards in this hobby - we need to be guardians.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The horror!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Amazing how the owner fell into the continuing spiral and how crazy costly it was for him! The whole episode seems like it just grew out of control and involved every component.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Amazing how the owner fell into the continuing spiral and how crazy costly it was for him! The whole episode seems like it just grew out of control and involved every component.


 

 The whole back and forth with communications/miscommunications. And then there were the multiple trips to Mom's house...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The whole back and forth with communications/miscommunications. And then there were the multiple trips to Mom's house...


 
  " I traveled over 35 times taking 3 1/2 hours in each road trip to his parent's house to check progress and observed him working at his mother's kitchen table,"    OMG!
   
  "Kyle delivered his custom $5,500 power filter system that amounted to a series of coils, capacitors and a huge transformer that sat loosely on two pieces of 2x6 boards he found behind his father's garage."  
   
  " I observed and heard his excuses for absolutely the worst soldering techniques where he uses globs of solder,"  
   
  "At the time Kyle came highly recommended and I gave him a few thousand dollars per month to work with"
   
   
  I don't know what to believe but it is an amazing story for sure.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> " I traveled over 35 times taking 3 1/2 hours in each road trip to his parent's house to check progress and observed him working at his mother's kitchen table,"    OMG!
> 
> "Kyle delivered his custom $5,500 power filter system that amounted to a series of coils, capacitors and a huge transformer that sat loosely on two pieces of 2x6 boards he found behind his father's garage."
> 
> ...


 


  I'm checking references and work done when I go 'Custom.' Although that's not going to prevent an artist/designer from having a breakdown during the time of their current work. Still, I would do what I could by taking some steps and responsibility.
   
  Speaking of caps, I'm now on hour 146 of my recommended 200 hours break-in period with the Low ESR "Super Caps." I do a sound check once every 12 hours. So far, the sound between stock & capped is in the middle - slightly more separation and layering among voices and instruments in the middle. The highs & lows are pretty similar in both versions at this writing.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Here is another great voice that is really a GEM for audio reproduction.  Sorry to derail the thread but I feel it is my duty to post this tune for any living breathing Audiophile to enjoy.  To legally keep on topic, this is THE FIRST TUNE I'll listen on a Woo if I can get the courage to buy a tube amp...   PM me if you can't find this tune...


 

 Wow, I love this one!  With my PWD > WES > HE-60 if sounds great even for compressed music.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> anyone read that nightmare mod thread?  It's unbelievable!


 

 Agreed. His website is pretty thorough though even if his work isn't:
   
  http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/
   

   
  Definitely the same guy.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> anyone read that nightmare mod thread?  It's unbelievable!


 


 I did.  I think I'd walk away from the deal, way too many red flags.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Agreed. His website is pretty thorough though even if his work isn't:
> 
> http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm still getting use to the idea of seeing both you and mikemalter post after 23:00 hours... is it holiday?!


 

 No.  For some reason my timing is shifting around.  Listening to 'phones at night.  Gotta shift back into an earlier schedule.


----------



## Golfnutz

Mike, how are the LCD-2 ?


----------



## mikemalter

Here is what I am noting.  The first column is equipment and the second column is break-in hours.
   
   

 LCD2-r2 w/ custom ALO cable 216 hours Solo 62 hours SR71-B 96 hours
   
  I have a balanced input for the LCD-2 for the SR71-B
   
  The comparison to date is

 how the LCD-2 sounds on the SR71-B/Solo combination with balanced connector
 how the LCD-2 compares with the HD800 on my WA22 with RCA connector
   
  In #1, I am liking how this music sounds in and of itself.  I don't have a mini-balanced connector I can use to test my HD800 with.  The LCD-2 is something I can live with when on the road and listening to my portable system.
   
  In #2 with the WA22, the HD800 is still my reference headset.  To my ears the HD800 (IMHO) does more of everything right than the LCD-2 even with r2 drivers.  The LCD-2 has more of a bass presence than the HD800, but to my hears (IMHO) it sounds more like an amplified than a natural bass.  The r2 drivers do make the top end more clear and there is more detail, however, the HD800 still resolves more detail than the LCD-2.  I also feel there is a more delicate, subtle and nuanced presentation to the HD800, while the LDC-2 renders on the earthy and rich side.
   
  I think I need to continue with burn-in today and through the weekend, and then Monday of next week I can start to do more critical comparisons.  To date these notes are me thinking out loud on a piece of gear tht is just on the tail end of breakin.  I suspect much will not change.  Then my decision is do I keep two pairs of headphones, or do I sell the LCD's (if they don't surpass the HD800's) and buy a cable for the HD800 that can handle the balanced output from the SR71-B.
   
  Question for people with more than one headphone.  Why do you have multiple pairs?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Here is what I am noting.  The first column is equipment and the second column is break-in hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mike, again thanks for your comments.
   
  A couple of comments from myself.  Did you try different tubes with the LCD-2? I think it's pretty important to get the right balance of tubes (based on what others have expressed).  No mention of the soundstage - this is one area that owner's have found the HD800 do really well. How does the LCD-2 compare? This could be why you favor the HD800. I liked what you said about the bass, saying it sounds more amplified then natural. Hopefully, others could share their opinion on how they perceive bass, whether it sounds more natural or not.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, Mike--
  You should take a break from your sound laboratory to sit back and enjoy some music for about a week no matter what its outcome is. I am going to do that on my vacation because I will not be around any amps to tinker with.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But when I return--look out! It's gonna be Dr. Claytenstein playing with Liquid Fire in my La-_*BO*_-ratory. _Bwaaahaha_!
  (Okay. Now I really need some professional help.)


----------



## Golfnutz

Heard this guy on the radio the other night, never heard of him before (Bob McAlpine)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Mike, again thanks for your comments.
> 
> A couple of comments from myself.  Did you try different tubes with the LCD-2? I think it's pretty important to get the right balance of tubes (based on what others have expressed).  No mention of the soundstage - this is one area that owner's have found the HD800 do really well. How does the LCD-2 compare? This could be why you favor the HD800. I liked what you said about the bass, saying it sounds more amplified then natural. Hopefully, others could share their opinion on how they perceive bass, whether it sounds more natural or not.


 

 My tubes are:
   
  Power: GEC-6AS7G
  Driver: TungSol BGRP 6SN7G (oval micas)
  Rectifier: EML-5U4G
   
  As for soundstage; they are comparable to me in that they both have that spooky positioning that makes you want to turn your head because it sounds like it is happening right next to you.
   
  I think the reason I favor the HD800 over the LCD-2 at this time is because the HD800 has a more toneally correct, delicate and refined presentation.  From my perspective, it doesn't handle the music, it just transmitts it.  Whereas on the other hand, the LCD-2, in my perspective, seems to color the music. 
   
  However, in the words of George Carlin, "Have you noticed that their stuff is **** and your **** is stuff?"  So I think it's all a matter of tastes and what we appreciate.  I know there are LCD-2 lovers out there and I like hearing from them about why they love it.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> My tubes are:
> 
> Power: GEC-6AS7G
> Driver: TungSol BGRP 6SN7G (oval micas)
> ...


 
  Phone rings... Hi, who's this? Jane. Jane who? We met at a party about 6-8 weeks ago and you said I was a good sport. Ohhhhh, Jane. Yes, how are you? Pregnant! I'm about to jump out the window. Wow, Jane you are a good sport. That George Carlin....


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Phone rings... Hi, who's this? Jane. Jane who? We met at a party about 6-8 weeks ago and you said I was a good sport. Ohhhhh, Jane. Yes, how are you? Pregnant! I'm about to jump out the window. Wow, Jane you are a good sport. That George Carlin....


 

 I see you are running a pair of Sylvania's as your power tubes.  I have a pair and will put them in tonight and listen to both the LCD-2 and the HD800 and let you know what happens.  Then I think you'll have a baseline for my comments.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


warriorant said:


> Here is another great voice that is really a GEM for audio reproduction.  Sorry to derail the thread but I feel it is my duty to post this tune for any living breathing Audiophile to enjoy.  To legally keep on topic, this is THE FIRST TUNE I'll listen on a Woo if I can get the courage to buy a tube amp...   PM me if you can't find this tune...


 

 Wow. Thanks. Incredible recording.
  Since it is out of stock I am going to buy it on iTunes unless there is another site that is offering the album at a higher bit rate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But when I return--look out! It's gonna be Dr. Claytenstein playing with Liquid Fire in my La-_*BO*_-ratory. _Bwaaahaha_!
> (Okay. Now I really need some professional help.)


 





   
  As a friend, the best I could do for you is stand by your window... in between you and the window. But I couldn't bring myself to make that call on your behalf for professional help. The Clinical docs would wrongly place the blame on your audio addiction and unfairly keep you locked up! Just as there is good & bad cholesterol... you need your audio addiction for good health and stability. 
   
  Tomorrow, if someone should miraculously step forward and volunteer to stand in for me, I'll call you for a visit. Admittedly, you've enough amps to keep one thoroughly preoccupied, but the Liquid Fire's absence could prove a distraction. But given the chance, I'll come by Sat/Sun anyway... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  and most definitely post Amsterdam!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Here is what I am noting.  The first column is equipment and the second column is break-in hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Inspired ~
   
  Nice outline, mikemalter. It makes me wanna jump onto Evernote and edit my own audio journal!  Why would I own multiple pairs of headphones? For mood, choice and flexibility with diverse music library.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> My tubes are:
> 
> Power: GEC-6AS7G
> Driver: TungSol BGRP 6SN7G (oval micas)
> ...


 

 Mike, just maybe your WA22 is under powered for the LCD2's. If you get a chance try a WA5/LE or Liquid Fire amp using your DAC and source for the LCD2's. Or ask icenine2 about the differences between the WA22 and the LF using a pair of LCD2's.
   
  Right now I am braking in a LF and a DAC1 with the same caps (upgraded by W4S/same AQ as DAC2) as the DAC2.
  I will be comparing the LF amp with my mighty WA5LE and tubes using my HE6's.
  I can say one thing, both amps do a great job using the HE6's but they are still different in there sound signature.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Mike, just maybe your WA22 is under powered for the LCD2's. If you get a chance try a WA5/LE or Liquid Fire amp using your DAC and source for the LCD2's. Or ask icenine2 about the differences between the WA22 and the LF using a pair of LCD2's.
> 
> Right now I am braking in a LF and a DAC1 with the same caps (upgraded by W4S/same AQ as DAC2) as the DAC2.
> I will be comparing the LF amp with my mighty WA5LE and tubes using my HE6's.
> I can say one thing, both amps do a great job using the HE6's but they are still different in there sound signature.


 

 By chance, how many hours do currently have on your DAC-1? Did you have W4S install the caps before leaving the shop or did you return it? If the latter, what differences are you finding between 'capped' & 'uncapped?' I returned my DAC-1 for the caps; currently @ 144 hours. Bass & treble is largely unchanged. But the mid-range has become more detailed and densely layered at this writing.
   
  Edit:  After reviewing my notes from the past few nights, there is a minor difference in bass between before and after. Granted, a few hundred hours might matter. But at this time, the bass hits with just a bit less authority; all attention seems to be given to enriching the middle. I like authority down low! I don't look for or want artificially enhanced presentations with bass where none should be. However, if it is in the recording then handle it!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Perhaps, another two weeks and I'll know my fate.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Mike, just maybe your WA22 is under powered for the LCD2's. If you get a chance try a WA5/LE or Liquid Fire amp using your DAC and source for the LCD2's. Or ask icenine2 about the differences between the WA22 and the LF using a pair of LCD2's.
> 
> Right now I am braking in a LF and a DAC1 with the same caps (upgraded by W4S/same AQ as DAC2) as the DAC2.
> I will be comparing the LF amp with my mighty WA5LE and tubes using my HE6's.
> I can say one thing, both amps do a great job using the HE6's but they are still different in there sound signature.


 

 Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the LF. 
   
  The power issue for the headphones is an interesting one for me and one I have never understood fully. 
   
  From what I am able to understand the impedance of the LCD-2 is much lower than the HD800, but impedance has nothing to do with power, right?  Can you touch on the subject of power and driving headphones?  If the headphone has a low impedance, shouldn't it be easier to drive?  What is the difference between power and volume?  I mean if I can turn up the volume so the headphone sounds loud enough and I'm not causing distortion in the amp, isn't that enough?
   
  Icenine2, what about the difference between the sound of the LCD-2's for the WA22 and LF?  Does the LF output more power than the WA22?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> By chance, how many hours do currently have on your DAC-1? Did you have W4S install the caps before leaving the shop or did you return it? If the latter, what differences are you finding between 'capped' & 'uncapped?' I returned my DAC-1 for the caps; currently @ 144 hours. Bass & treble is largely unchanged. But the mid-range has become more detailed and densely layered at this writing.
> 
> Edit:  After reviewing my notes from the past few nights, there is a minor difference in bass between before and after. Granted, a few hundred hours might matter. But at this time, the bass hits with just a bit less authority; all attention seems to be given to enriching the middle. I like authority down low! I don't look for or want artificially enhanced presentations with bass where none should be. However, if it is in the recording then handle it!
> 
> ...


 



 I had W4S do the cap upgrade when I ordered the DAC1, I didn't need the remote or the added USB support and W4S assured me that the DAC1 with the cap upgrade would give the same AQ as the DAC2. If that was not the case I would have gotten the DAC2.
   
  I have about 150 hours on my DAC1 now using pink noise. Anyway Its hard for me to tell right now what is what with my DAC1 because I have my LF connected to my DAC1, and I am breaking in both at the same time.
   
  Next week I will start to mix and match my DAC's and also my WA5LE to hear what is what. Also comparing my W5LE and the LF amps.
   
  One thing I can say with the DAC1 and LF combo is the bass is great and hits very well and maybe better than my WA5LE and DAC19 DSP1v5. Now is that because of the LF or is that because of the DAC1 or maybe the combo. All this I will report on in the coming weeks.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the LF.
> 
> The power issue for the headphones is an interesting one for me and one I have never understood fully.
> 
> ...


 



 I don't think anybody truly understands why headphones like the HE6's or even the LCD2's need the wattage/power they need. Yes everybody knows that a low imp headphone like the HE6 is not an efficient headphone and therefore needs the extra wattage to drive them. imo these types of headphones need a constant (not peak) wattage/volts/power to match there needs. Why I say this is because a lot of folks have used amps that are made for speakers with a lot more wattage than are Woo's or LF for that matter, but still in many cases the results are not that satisfying.
  Now without the right power to drive these headphones you loose the refinements/impact/sound-stage, ect. Yes you may very well have the loudness you hear but not the refinement.
  My WA6SE max had the volume level but not the refinement level (power) to bring out what my HE6's can really do, however my HD800's sounded very good with my WA6SE, same as you are saying using your WA22. That said my K701's sounded nice with my WA6SE and as we know the K701's are a low imp headphone.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Mike, just maybe your WA22 is under powered for the LCD2's. If you get a chance try a WA5/LE or Liquid Fire amp using your DAC and source for the LCD2's. Or ask icenine2 about the differences between the WA22 and the LF using a pair of LCD2's.
> 
> Right now I am braking in a LF and a DAC1 with the same caps (upgraded by W4S/same AQ as DAC2) as the DAC2.
> I will be comparing the LF amp with my mighty WA5LE and tubes using my HE6's.
> I can say one thing, both amps do a great job using the HE6's but they are still different in there sound signature.


 


  The WA22 puts about 1.5W into 50 ohms (whereas the WA5LE puts 630mW into the same impedanc), so for the LCD-2s that's plenty IMO. My Lyr puts 4 Watts into them and I don't feel that I'm leaving any cards on the table power wise between the two amps. The LCD-2s while orthos, are quite a bit more efficient than the HE-6s. But with that said, the WA22 is not up to the task to power my HE-6s.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I had W4S do the cap upgrade when I ordered the DAC1, I didn't need the remote or the added USB support and W4S assured me that the DAC1 with the cap upgrade would give the same AQ as the DAC2. If that was not the case I would have gotten the DAC2.
> 
> I have about 150 hours on my DAC1 now using pink noise. Anyway Its hard for me to tell right now what is what with my DAC1 because I have my LF connected to my DAC1, and I am breaking in both at the same time.
> 
> ...


 

 I appreciate your feedback, sillysally. On AQ with the DAC-1 before & after Low ESR "Super Caps," for those who cannot afford a DAC-2 or don't need the extra options, the DAC-1 is still a great piece of kit! I was happy before the upgrade of caps, the DAC hit hard, 'caps' is simply bringing me more ability to resolve with the WA 6 Special Edition (the DAC-1 hits even harder on the SX-650!). 
   
  Your report highlighting the LF/WA5LE will be worthy of another pint of Haagen-Dazs!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The WA22 puts about 1.5W into 50 ohms (whereas the WA5LE puts 630mW into the same impedanc), so for the LCD-2s that's plenty IMO. My Lyr puts 4 Watts into them and I don't feel that I'm leaving any cards on the table power wise between the two amps. The LCD-2s while orthos, are quite a bit more efficient than the HE-6s. But with that said, the WA22 is not up to the task to power my HE-6s.


 



 You may what to look at what Jack has to say about that, I think you will find you are wrong. Matter of fact take a look a Jude's review of the Lyr and the WA5LE using the HE6s, you will read he thinks the WA5LE is in a different class (better) than the lyr for driving the HE6's. If that is the case then why is it, if its just pure wattage then the lyr with its 4 watts compared to the WA5LE's 1.5 watts not be better for the HE6s.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the LF.
> 
> The power issue for the headphones is an interesting one for me and one I have never understood fully.
> 
> ...




Try swap out the GEC with TS5998 or Sylvania 7236, they are much better match for LCD-2. I tried the LCD-2 with the GEC but always swap it back to TS after an hour or so. The 5998 and 7236 output double the power of GEC but it is not twice the volume. I think it has to do with the current output of the 5998 or 7236 that makes the LCD-2 happy.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> You may what to look at what Jack has to say about that, I think you will find you are wrong. Matter of fact take a look a Jude's review of the Lyr and the WA5LE using the HE6s, you will read he thinks the WA5LE is in a different class (better) than the lyr.


 
   
  Have a look here for what Jack has to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





:
   
  http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
  
  All I was saying was that the WA22 has more than sufficient power for the LCD-2s when compared to my Lyr...you might want to re-read my post...when did I say the Lyr was a better amp than the WA5LE?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It has been a strange week listening to Jazz via computer instead of my usual listening sessions with the Woo. I could enjoy the service of my EMU while the DAC-1 is cooking. Maybe this wekend, perhaps. Currently looking at the Woo, admiring the 6 Special Edition's twin chassis design. Eventually want to take my system off the grid one component at a time. The DAC first, then the Mac followed by the Woo.
> 
> I'm wondering if I had a clean rechargeable battery source, would that allow me to do away with the power supply/rectifier/spinning transformer? Straight clean DC Power into the amp for a much cleaner resolution. Hmmm... I know Jack could answer that. And 2359glenn. And many others perhaps, once their late night sessions are over. C'mon people, check your computers before going to bed! Need input...


 


 This would be easy to do with the 6-SE you would just need a power cable to plug into the amp and not use the power supply. the cable would have to have fuses at the
  battery's. But you would need a hefty bunch of battery's. best would be a 6 volt deep cycle car/boat battery for the filament supply and about 15 12volt 4 amp hour battery's
  in series for the B+ plate supply.
  This is not a new idea back in the 20s and 30s this was done with radios as most of the country had no power in rural areas the power was only in big city's and towns.
  and all these radios ran on tubes.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Have a look here for what Jack has to say
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes I know about that chart, but it doesent change the fact that the WA5LE puts out 1.5 watts at 50 ohms.
  Matter of fact the power of the WA5/LE is 90W as where the WA22 is 54W.
   
  What you said was nothing left on the table using the lyr and LCD 22's. Plus you are talking about watts, as I am. My whole point (and what Mike asked) on these headphones is why in many cases using a amp with more watts have a lessor tone quality than a amp with lessor watts.
   
  If you are only go by your lyr or WA22 then how can you say that for sure that is the case.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I know about that chart, but it doesent change the fact that the WA5LE puts out 1.5 watts at 50 ohms.
> Matter of fact the power of the WA5/LE is 90W as where the WA22 is 54W.
> 
> *What you said was nothing* *left on the table using the lyr and LCD 22's.* Plus you are talking about watts, as I am. My whole point (and what Mike asked) on these headphones is why in many cases using a amp with more watts have a lessor tone quality than a amp with lessor watts.
> ...


 

 Because with my WA22, I didn't feel I was leaving any cards on the table with 1.5W versus the 4W from my Lyr. Sheesh.
   
  Secondly, Watts = Power and the table clearly shows 630mW into 50 ohms, not sure where you're getting 1.5W? And with orthos, power is a very important factor.
   
  EDIT: 90W vs. 54W is power consumption, not what is being forwarded on to the output.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Mike, just maybe your WA22 is under powered for the LCD2's. If you get a chance try a WA5/LE or Liquid Fire amp using your DAC and source for the LCD2's. Or ask icenine2 about the differences between the WA22 and the LF using a pair of LCD2's.
> 
> Right now I am braking in a LF and a DAC1 with the same caps (upgraded by W4S/same AQ as DAC2) as the DAC2.
> I will be comparing the LF amp with my mighty WA5LE and tubes using my HE6's.
> I can say one thing, both amps do a great job using the HE6's but they are still different in there sound signature.


 


 SS, you can't do that. You're influencing the outcome of the pool Clayton's running on how long it takes Mike to purchase the LF....


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try swap out the GEC with TS5998 or Sylvania 7236, they are much better match for LCD-2. I tried the LCD-2 with the GEC but always swap it back to TS after an hour or so. The 5998 and 7236 output double the power of GEC but it is not twice the volume. I think it has to do with the current output of the 5998 or 7236 that makes the LCD-2 happy.


 

 I have a pair of the TS5998 and Sylvania 7236.  Going to try the 7236 tonight and the 5998 tomorrow.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> SS, you can't do that. You're influencing the outcome of the pool Clayton's running on how long it takes Mike to purchase the LF....


 

 Pool!?  Clayton???


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Because with my WA22, I didn't feel I was leaving any cards on the table with 1.5W versus the 4W from my Lyr. Sheesh.
> 
> Secondly, Watts = Power and the graph clearly shows 630mW into 50 ohms, not sure where you're getting 1.5W? And with orthos, power is a very important factor.


 

 Power output >= 1.5 watt. This is what Jack states for the WA5LE
  Output: 1500mw @32 ohms, 700mw @600 ohms. This is what Jack states for the WA22.
   
  I have also talked to Jack about this before I got my HE6's, and also before I got my WA5LE (twice) comparing that to the WA22. imo I think Jack should be the final word on what his amp's can and can not do.
  Also in Jude's review of the lyr, if you are correct then why would he like the WA5LE better using the HE6's when the lyr has 4 watts compared to the WA5's 1.5 watts.
   
  No In the case of the HE6's watts do not equal power, as you know watts is a number that can be played with, like peak watts. Then also volts imo come into play with these type of headphones.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Pool!? What pool? not me.
  But someone did present the question of whether anyone was taking bets on how long it would be before you got an LF.
  Which can be found at _*Woo South*_: here ----> _*"Anybody taking bets on how long before Mike gets one." 



*_


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Power output >= 1.5 watt. This is what Jack states for the WA5LE
> Output: 1500mw @32 ohms, 700mw @600 ohms. This is what Jack states for the WA22.
> 
> I have also talked to Jack about this before I got my HE6's, and also before I got my WA5LE (twice) comparing that to the WA22. imo I think Jack should be the final word on what his amp's can and can not do.
> ...


 
   
*Power = Voltage x Current *(not bad for a Chemical Engineer to remember this from my EE courses that I took about 20 years ago, but maybe I've actually learned something from my last 15 years in the electronic manufacturing industry)?
   
  Again, please re-read my initial post, I did say that while the WA22 had plenty of power for the LCD-2s, but it couldn't sufficiently drive my HE-6s.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Pool!? What pool? not me.
> But someone did present the question of whether anyone was taking bets on how long it would be before you got an LF.
> Which can be found at _*Woo South*_: here ----> _*"Anybody taking bets on how long before Mike gets one."
> 
> ...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Pool!? What pool? not me.
> But someone did present the question of whether anyone was taking bets on how long it would be before you got an LF.
> Which can be found here ----> _*"Anybody taking bets on how long before Mike gets one."
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry Clayton my bad. It was awhile ago I read that post, and thought it was you. They'll have to click on it to see who actually posted it...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Pool!? What pool? not me.
> But someone did present the question of whether anyone was taking bets on how long it would be before you got an LF.
> Which can be found at _*Woo South*_: here ----> _*"Anybody taking bets on how long before Mike gets one."
> 
> ...


 

 This is how reputations are ruined and a man's character is destroyed.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Clayton, you're getting an LF, right?  Sorry to be so ditzed out.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Sorry Clayton my bad. It was awhile ago I read that post, and thought it was you. They'll have to click on it to see who actually posted it...


 
  Not to worry. I knew it wasn't me but I forgot who it actually was. I had to do a little sleuthing.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This is how reputations are ruined and a man's character is destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Don't worry Mike, we're all looking for that Holy Grail headphone system.  I personally believe this is way more involved then putting that nice stereo system together 10-20 years ago. Back then you bought it and made a couple of small adjustments, but it lasted at least 5 years before the itch started again (at least for me).


----------



## landgreen

Interesting question asked by Mike Malter a few pages back.
  I'm somewhat torn between my T1/WA2 combination and my LCD-2/Lyr combination and could really only describe it to a forum member a while ago as with the same piece of music the T1/WA2 sounds like what I imagine it might be like in the studio and the LCD-2/Lyr sounds like an amplified concert in a very nice hall with great acoustics. Very subjective as to which is better.
  FWIW
  


> Question for people with more than one headphone.  Why do you have multiple pairs?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## mikemalter

I put in my Sylvania 7236's tonight into my WA22 to test both the HD800 and LCD-2 (r2).  Tomorrow night I'll test the TungSol 5998.
   
  So, I'm crusing my music collection with the HD800 just to get a baseline, and the first thing I notice is how smooth everything sounds now.  I was surprised because I have been dealing with a harshness issue since leaving my iPod/i170/Monarchy DIP/DLIII stack.  The surprise was that the 7236 sounded so good.  It was not until last night that my DAC-2/BDP-1 combo smoothed out to produce a really nice sound without glare or digital harshness on my WA22.  That was basically 1000 hours on the DAC-2 and BDP-1 to break them both in.  So, anyway, back to the tubes.  I could only have the GEC 6AS7G in there, otherwise everything was too harsh, and now I can put in other tubes and appreciate their sonic profile.  Which brings us back to the Sylvanias and the HD800 and LCD-2 test.
   
  I'm listening to the HD800 just to get a baseline and everything is sounding smooth and the sound of the music is now more saturated, fuller and forward.  I went back and forth several times between the HD and LCD and it was the same story as last night; more detail in the HD and more earth and woodiness in the LCD.  Then I settled on a particular cut that I think summed it all up for me. 
   
  The album is Rodrigo y Gabriela and it was during the first cut, Tamacun.  During this piece, the artists knock in rythem on their guitars and when listening through the LCD everything sounded great, I got the woodiness of the guitar and the rythmic thumping was bringin' it.  Then when I put on the HD, I could hear all of the extra sounds that the guitar was making as it was being thumped that was not there for the LCD.  I knew it was a guitar when the LCD was playing, but the music told me it was a guitar when the HD was on. 
   
  There is just more detail, more information.  It's not a soundstage thing in my mind, but a rendering thing.  And, even when there is a more powerful power tube in there which makes the sound richer, more present and forward, to a certain that does carry over to the LCD as in a rising tide lifts all boats, but, it's the detail, not just higher frequencies that are shining through on the HD800.
   
  Like I said earlier, I have another three days of breakin on the LCD so there is that.  The good is that LCD stepped up the detail in the higher frequencies with the new r2 driver, but I am finding that although there is more detail upstairs, the HD800 just renders more detail everywhere overall for a more complete sonic picture.  So that's my 2 cents, anyway.
   
  I'll pop in the TungSol 5998's tomorrow and post again.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Power output >= 1.5 watt. This is what Jack states for the WA5LE
> Output: 1500mw @32 ohms, 700mw @600 ohms. This is what Jack states for the WA22.
> 
> I have also talked to Jack about this before I got my HE6's, and also before I got my WA5LE (twice) comparing that to the WA22. imo I think Jack should be the final word on what his amp's can and can not do.
> ...


 

 SS, are you powering your headphones off of the K1K jack of the WA5, or off the regular TRS jack?  I see this sort of confusion pop up every time somebody talks about power and the WA5, and from what I've gathered the WA5 drives the K1K jack off the speaker taps to the tune of 8W, but the regular TRS jack measures lower power output overall against the WA22 according to the comparison charts Jack published earlier this year.  The charts are newer info than what is printed on the WA5 page and also more in-depth. 
   
  edit:  my bad, I had forgotten that the LE version doesn't have the K1K output jack.  So then I'm definitely confused as to why the WA5LE is recommended for difficult headphone loads when the power measurements favor the WA22 across the board.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ And just when I was certain that I would choose the LCD over the HD then you go ahead and inform me that it is the HD that is able to let the music _tell_ you that you are listening to a guitar.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I put in my Sylvania 7236's tonight into my WA22 to test both the HD800 and LCD-2 (r2).  Tomorrow night I'll test the TungSol 5998.
> 
> So, I'm crusing my music collection with the HD800 just to get a baseline, and the first thing I notice is how smooth everything sounds now.  I was surprised because I have been dealing with a harshness issue since leaving my iPod/i170/Monarchy DIP/DLIII stack.  The surprise was that the 7236 sounded so good.  It was not until last night that my DAC-2/BDP-1 combo smoothed out to produce a really nice sound without glare or digital harshness on my WA22.  That was basically 1000 hours on the DAC-2 and BDP-1 to break them both in.  So, anyway, back to the tubes.  I could only have the GEC 6AS7G in there, otherwise everything was too harsh, and now I can put in other tubes and appreciate their sonic profile.  Which brings us back to the Sylvanias and the HD800 and LCD-2 test.
> 
> ...


 

 Very nicely worded Mike.  This is usually what I'm getting at when I use the term "transparent" myself.  As in you hear the instrument and not a recording of an instrument.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I put in my Sylvania 7236's tonight into my WA22 to test both the HD800 and LCD-2 (r2).  Tomorrow night I'll test the TungSol 5998.
> 
> So, I'm crusing my music collection with the HD800 just to get a baseline, and the first thing I notice is how smooth everything sounds now.  I was surprised because I have been dealing with a harshness issue since leaving my iPod/i170/Monarchy DIP/DLIII stack.  The surprise was that the 7236 sounded so good.  It was not until last night that my DAC-2/BDP-1 combo smoothed out to produce a really nice sound without glare or digital harshness on my WA22.  That was basically 1000 hours on the DAC-2 and BDP-1 to break them both in.  So, anyway, back to the tubes.  I could only have the GEC 6AS7G in there, otherwise everything was too harsh, and now I can put in other tubes and appreciate their sonic profile.  Which brings us back to the Sylvanias and the HD800 and LCD-2 test.
> 
> ...


 


  Nice in-progress report. However, I wouldn't even sit up straight and pay attention until the LCD-2.r2 had a minimum 300 hours. And wouldn't start judging until 500 hours. Even if it never comes around, it has a better chance with a little more time. Speaking of which, since meeting your HD-800's acquaintance, I need a lil' bit more time with that can. It's sound remains somewhat puzzling in my limited time with it. Now that we have the same sampler CD, I'll have a better take on my demo when I return to your listening room.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This would be easy to do with the 6-SE you would just need a power cable to plug into the amp and not use the power supply. the cable would have to have fuses at the
> battery's. But you would need a hefty bunch of battery's. best would be a 6 volt deep cycle car/boat battery for the filament supply and about 15 12volt 4 amp hour battery's
> in series for the B+ plate supply.
> This is not a new idea back in the 20s and 30s this was done with radios as most of the country had no power in rural areas the power was only in big city's and towns.
> and all these radios ran on tubes.


 

 Wow! Class-A tube amps must make for some greedy household pets!!! I think taking the Woo & Mac offline would come last. I'd make taking the DAC offline first as it appears to be simpler. For all my trouble (stacking batteries) would I reap a nice sonic reward with the WA 6 Special Edition?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nice in-progress report. However, I wouldn't even sit up straight and pay attention until the LCD-2.r2 had a minimum 300 hours. And wouldn't start judging until 500 hours. Even if it never comes around, it has a better chance with a little more time. Speaking of which, since meeting your HD-800's acquaintance, I need a lil' bit more time with that can. It's sound remains somewhat puzzling in my limited time with it. Now that we have the same sampler CD, I'll have a better take on my demo when I return to your listening room.


 

 Three hundred hours.  Yeah, you're probably right.  It took almost a 1000 hours for my DAC-2 to settle in.  I think it takes a lot more hours than people realize for headphone stuff because there is such a higher level of detail involved.  I'll keep timing it.  I get 168 hours a week as I keep it going 24/7 and I am at 216 hours now, so about two more weeks should do it, do you think?
   
  Yes, looking forward to another listening session.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





landgreen said:


> Interesting question asked by Mike Malter a few pages back.
> I'm somewhat torn between my T1/WA2 combination and my LCD-2/Lyr combination and could really only describe it to a forum member a while ago as with the same piece of music the T1/WA2 sounds like what I imagine it might be like in the studio and the LCD-2/Lyr sounds like an amplified concert in a very nice hall with great acoustics. Very subjective as to which is better.
> FWIW


 

 These are the same can/amp combinations I've settled upon, and your observations pretty closely mirror mine. I've sort of quit looking for one to be "better," and am instead getting pretty good at guessing which combination is most appropriate for my mood and/or chosen recording.
   
  It's a pretty good "problem" to have.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> These are the same can/amp combinations I've settled upon, and your observations pretty closely mirror mine. I've sort of quit looking for one to be "better," and am instead getting pretty good at guessing which combination is most appropriate for my mood and/or chosen recording.
> 
> It's a pretty good "problem" to have.


 
  What do you think of the LCD/WA2 combo?


----------



## grokit

Wow this thread is as hard to keep up with as the LCD-2 one if you don't continually check in but here goes...

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Question for people with more than one headphone.  Why do you have multiple pairs?


 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Why would I own multiple pairs of headphones? For mood, choice and flexibility with diverse music library.


 

 Definitely, I go back and forth mainly because the HD800 is awesome for perfectly recorded music while the LCD-2 is so much more forgiving, especially for 70's American pop/rock vinyl where if you have a late pressing you can lose a whole octave off the bottom. But sometimes it's just mood 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Regarding soundstage between the two headphones, I find the LCD-2 to be just as good if not better than the HD800 from left to right, but the HD800 kills the LCD-2 in soundstage depth for a more 3D presentation.

  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Phone rings... Hi, who's this? Jane. Jane who? We met at a party about 6-8 weeks ago and you said I was a good sport. Ohhhhh, Jane. Yes, how are you? Pregnant! I'm about to jump out the window. Wow, Jane you are a good sport. That George Carlin....


 

 Lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !  I hadn't heard that one, classic Carlin.
   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a pair of the TS5998 and Sylvania 7236.  Going to try the 7236 tonight and the 5998 tomorrow.


 
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'll pop in the TungSol 5998's tomorrow and post again.


 
   
  While you still have the 7236's in pop in your Shuggie drivers for a bit, you may be surprised with the LCD-2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> From what I am able to understand the impedance of the LCD-2 is much lower than the HD800, but impedance has nothing to do with power, right?  Can you touch on the subject of power and driving headphones?  If the headphone has a low impedance, shouldn't it be easier to drive?  What is the difference between power and volume?


 
   Quote:


sillysally said:


> Mike, just maybe your WA22 is under powered for the LCD2's.


 
   Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> The WA22 puts about 1.5W into 50 ohms (whereas the WA5LE puts 630mW into the same impedanc), so for the LCD-2s that's plenty IMO.


 

  I agree with Peter here, just because the LCD-2 is a planar doesn't mean it's as inefficient as (most of) the HE series. The LCD-2 is actually more efficient than the HD800. I run them both out of the WA22 on the high impedance setting simultaneously and the LCD-2 is louder than the HD800, it is that simple. It seems to be the consensus that with the WA22 at least, the high-impedance setting is the best for driving the LCD-2. The Wa22 has more than enough power for both headphones but if you want to drive them simultaneously it is advisable to use the 2-watt power tubes like the 5998/7236.
   
  Mike, I'm not an expert at explaining the answers to all of your questions but I feel I have developed a decent handle on driving headphones. The critical specification that you're not addressing is sensitivity. It can be much harder to drive inefficient low-impedance headphones compared to high-impedance headphones that are more efficient. The output impedance rating of the amp is important, but the ratio of current to voltage is more crucial to this equation.
   

  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I had forgotten that the LE version doesn't have the K1K output jack.  So then I'm definitely confused as to why the WA5LE is recommended for difficult headphone loads when the power measurements favor the WA22 across the board.


 

   
  This has always confused me as well, the only I can think of is that the output level of the 1/4" jacks are different between the WA5 and the WA5LE.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Three hundred hours.  Yeah, you're probably right.  It took almost a 1000 hours for my DAC-2 to settle in.  I think it takes a lot more hours than people realize for headphone stuff because there is such a higher level of detail involved.  I'll keep timing it.  I get 168 hours a week as I keep it going 24/7 and I am at 216 hours now, so about two more weeks should do it, do you think?
> 
> Yes, looking forward to another listening session.


 


  216 hours is so young. Remember my theory awhile back on reaching minimum burn-in? Sure, YMMV applies, but I've long felt that even if one 'burned' 24/7 and reached minimum burn-in rapidly, the device still needs time to settle (like a fine wine). This is why my rule-of-thumb for cables/components and comparing things is 21 days at least! Perhaps, a little more seasoning or a little less. For example, some may face a 200 hour burn-in minimum and race like Formula One to get there in a matter of days. When said cable/component may reach diminishing returns until a certain time has elapsed. So, despite reaching minimum hours, _sometimes what you're 'cooking' ain't gonna do what it do until it's ready anyway!_
   
  But, these are just my experiences past and present... someone pass the French bubbly!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   WarriorAnt just reported last week (I believe) that he needed some 330 hours at minimum for his r.2 spec Audez'e's to get right. Prediction: Maybe something more is in my tea than previously imagined, but when he sails past blocks 500-750-1000 hours he is going to be in for another surprise. Oh, and you too!


----------



## Silent One

grokit, good thing you came in when you did. _Had you waited until Monday... _
  Oh, and despite finally lifting the hood on the Mac (sudo systemsetup -setkernelbootarchitecture x86_64), I'm staying with loose tea, bags are too convenient!  Thanks.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Post Script.:   : :  I'm up this morning feeding my Woo. In January I trialed Fidelia for 15 days and thought it was nice, but already had Pure Music. Now just embarked on another 15 day trial. This summer has been one of DAC auditions so now I'm out to find what software players mates well with what DAC & Woo. Also, Fidelia informed me that all their programs will soon be 64-bit.


----------



## jerico

silent one said:


> _sometimes what you're 'cooking' ain't gonna do what it do until it's ready anyway!_




Gordon Rankin at Wavelength says the same re: breaking in his DACs: use them normally, off and on off and on, rather than just blasting it on for days on end. He has explanation of why posted online somewhere.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Gordon Rankin at Wavelength says the same re: breaking in his DACs: use them normally, off and on off and on, rather than just blasting it on for days on end. He has explanation of why posted online somewhere.


 

  
  I respect his work and opinion in the industry. Around my shop the popular rule was five hours on then five hours off for most cables and components. But 'time' (healing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and recovery seem to be key in most methods and madness I've heard 'round companies I've worked for. To help things along I'll use an IsoTek disk.
   
  I've long burned to normal use like Gordin suggests. _However, in the last two months I've been burnin' gear like the Devil himself_. This is because I have been fortunate enough to receive a few items for review. So, no time to dilly-dally, I'd like to get back to my own gear too. Then when I near a respectable time I'll integrate both time-off and the IsoTek gear and then start listening critically...


----------



## jerico

grokit said:


> While you still have the 7236's in pop in your Shuggie drivers for a bit, you may be surprised with the LCD-2




I just loaded up this combo (with EML 5U4G) - but my Treasues have low hours, I never took to them enough to leave them in. I'll leave them for a while as I think the consensus is they need a couple 100 hours to come to life.

That said, with the Treasures, the LCD2 sounds less warm than with my "go-to" VT231s (all when using Sylvania 7236 power tubes).


----------



## Silent One

Curiously, is your reply inside the blue area or is your post missing text? Just trying to follow, Jerico...


----------



## jerico

Sorry for my fat fingers...! Just fixed the quote.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Sorry for my fat fingers...! Just fixed the quote.


 

 Oh, thanks. We out on the West Coast bleary-eyed waiting for bedtime in a couple of hours... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The Woo is fired up and I'm listening to two DACs & two music players simultaneously!


----------



## sillysally

Ok some of you want to go off of the detailed chart, but when that chart says 1.9W @ 60ohm for the WA6SE that is more powerful than the WA5LE and the WA22. Now consider that the WA5LE is .6W @ 60ohm, 1.3W @ 60 ohm less than the WA6SE from what the chart is saying. Having own both the WA6SE and the WA5LE and the HE6, there is something very wrong with how some of us are reading that chart or the chart itself. There is no way that the WA6SE can power the HE6 properly, and the chart says as much. Also from what I have read from folks that have the WA22 and have tried the HE6's with the WA22 say it can not properly power the HE6's. On the other hand there is nobody saying that the WA5LE can not properly power the HE6's.
   
  According to that chart going by the watts of both the WA22 and WA6SE those amp should be better than the WA5LE, but in real life that is not the case.


----------



## jerico

silent one said:


> Oh, thanks. We out on the West Coast bleary-eyed waiting for bedtime in a couple of hours...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm on the flip side here on the east coast - woke up an hour or so ago, now sitting in bed having a little morning Woo session (with some tube rolling, as I mentioned - what better way to start a weekend?)!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ok some of you want to go off of the detailed chart, but when that chart says 1.9W @ 60ohm for the WA6SE that is more powerful than the WA5LE and the WA22. Now consider that the WA5LE is .6W @ 60ohm, 1.3W @ 60 ohm less than the WA6SE from what the chart is saying. Having own both the WA6SE and the WA5LE and the HE6, there is something very wrong with how some of us are reading that chart or the chart itself. There is no way that the WA6SE can power the HE6 properly, and the chart says as much. Also from what I have read from folks that have the WA22 and have tried the HE6's with the WA22 say it can not properly power the HE6's. On the other hand there is nobody saying that the WA5LE can not properly power the HE6's.
> 
> According to that chart going by the watts of both the WA22 and WA6SE those amp should be better than the WA5LE, but in real life that is not the case.


 

 I'm your witness, sillysally (timeline). And if given the chance to receive one of the aforementioned Woo's as a gift, give me the WA5LE no matter what that chart says! What's with that chart anyway?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I'm on the flip side here on the east coast - woke up an hour or so ago, now sitting in bed having a little morning Woo session (with some tube rolling, as I mentioned - what better way to start a weekend?)!


 


  I got a late start - didn't start warm up with my WA6SE until 0200 hrs; began playing @ 0300 hrs. Was messing around with the Pioneer rig prior... who did you queue up first? I started my own morning session with Al Jarreau.


----------



## jerico

silent one said:


> I got a late start - didn't start warm up with my WA6SE until 0200 hrs; began playing @ 0300 hrs. Was messing around with the Pioneer rig prior... who did you queue up first? I started my own morning session with Al Jarreau.




Here's my morning session log:

Lyle Lovett / Natural Forces
Michael Nesmith / And The Hits Just Keep On Comin'
Miles Davis & John Coltrane / Miles Davis & John Coltrane

I have a case of music OCD, which requires me to play every song in my library at least once, every so often - so I don't "forget" to listen to stuff I own. A few months back I had an iTunes database issue - my music was backed up and unaffected, but I lost my play counts. So I reset them all and have been working my way through, album by album. I have just under 3000 songs to go.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Here's my morning session log:
> 
> Lyle Lovett / Natural Forces
> Michael Nesmith / And The Hits Just Keep On Comin'
> ...


 

 3000? Still to go?? _Time for bed... enjoy your session!_


----------



## Icenine2

The EML and the Treasures were my ticket but I have the T-1 I used w/the WA22.
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> I just loaded up this combo (with EML 5U4G) - but my Treasues have low hours, I never took to them enough to leave them in. I'll leave them for a while as I think the consensus is they need a couple 100 hours to come to life.
> 
> That said, with the Treasures, the LCD2 sounds less warm than with my "go-to" VT231s (all when using Sylvania 7236 power tubes).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Wow this thread is as hard to keep up with as the LCD-2 one if you don't continually check in but here goes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Grokit,
   
  Really great answers.
   
  First, what is a shuggie?
   
  Regarding headphones.  Is there a sensitivity measure somewhere?  For example here are the technical data published by Sennheiser for the HD800.  Which metric is sensitivity?
   


 [td] Frequency response (headphones)[/td] [td] 6 – 51000 Hz (-10 dB)[/td] 
 [td] Frequency response (headphones)[/td] [td] 14 – 44100 Hz (- 3 dB)[/td] 
 [td] Transducer principle[/td] [td] dynamic, open[/td] 
 [td] Nominal impedance[/td] [td] 300 Ω[/td] 
 [td] Sound pressure level (SPL)[/td] [td] 102 dB[/td] 
 [td] THD, total harmonic distortion[/td] [td] ≤0.02 % (1kHz/1Vrms)[/td] 
 [td] Contact pressure[/td] [td] 3.4 N (± 0.3 N) approx.[/td] 
 [td] Ear coupling[/td] [td] circumaural[/td] 
 [td] Weight w/o cable[/td] [td] 330 g[/td] 
 [td] Jack plug[/td] [td] ¼” (6.3 mm) stereo[/td] 
 [td] Cable length[/td] [td] 3m[/td]    
  EDIT:
   
  Here is a table for the HD800.  I got this one off of CNet and it looks like the response bandwidth is a bit different than the frequency response above.
Headphones​​ 
*Headphones Type​*Headphones - Binaural​​
*Headphones Form Factor​*Ear-cup​​​​
*Headphones Technology​*Dynamic​​
*Connectivity Technology​*Wired​​
*Sound Output Mode​*Stereo​​​​
*Response Bandwidth​*8 - 50000 Hz​​
*Total Harmonic Distortion (THD)​*0.02 %​​
*Sensitivity​*102 dB​​
*Impedance​*300 Ohm​​
​   
  Here is the technical data for the LCD-2
 Technical Specifications  The frequency response is flat between 10hz and 1Khz. At higher frequencies the response is adjusted for headphone listening.

  Impedance: 50 Ohms, nominal

  Sensitivity: 91 dB/1mW

  Maximum power handling: 15W

  Frequency Response: 5 Hz – 20 KHz, usable high frequency extension 50 KHz.

  Distortion: Less than 1% even at full output.

  Impedance: 50 Ohms, nominal

  Efficiency: 91 dB/1mW

  Maximum output: 133dB, 15W

  Active diaphragm area: 6.17 square inches.

  Contact pressure: 1.5 N, adjustable, comfortable headband.

  Weight: 550 g, without cable.

  Maximum diaphragm excursion: 2.5mm p-p

   
  So there is a specific sensitivity rating for the LCD-2.  What does this measure tell you about them?  Then there is the sensitivity of the HD800.  It's a higher number so is the HD800 more sensitive?
   
"The output impedance rating of the amp is important, but the ratio of current to voltage is more crucial to this equation."
   
  Is there a formula somewhere I can apply to get a measure?  Can you do this for the WA22 so I can see how it is done?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## jerico

Hi Mike - by "Shuggie" I believe Grokit means the Shuguang Treasures.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I just loaded up this combo (with EML 5U4G) - but my Treasues have low hours, I never took to them enough to leave them in. I'll leave them for a while as I think the consensus is they need a couple 100 hours to come to life.
> 
> That said, with the Treasures, the LCD2 sounds less warm than with my "go-to" VT231s (all when using Sylvania 7236 power tubes).


 

 Is less warm a good or bad thing for your preferences? For me they need a little cooling off out of the WA22. What surprised me is that I liked the HD800 with this tube combo as well.

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ok some of you want to go off of the detailed chart, but when that chart says 1.9W @ 60ohm for the WA6SE that is more powerful than the WA5LE and the WA22. Now consider that the WA5LE is .6W @ 60ohm, 1.3W @ 60 ohm less than the WA6SE from what the chart is saying. Having own both the WA6SE and the WA5LE and the HE6, there is something very wrong with how some of us are reading that chart or the chart itself. There is no way that the WA6SE can power the HE6 properly, and the chart says as much. Also from what I have read from folks that have the WA22 and have tried the HE6's with the WA22 say it can not properly power the HE6's. On the other hand there is nobody saying that the WA5LE can not properly power the HE6's.
> 
> According to that chart going by the watts of both the WA22 and WA6SE those amp should be better than the WA5LE, but in real life that is not the case.


 

 I am one of those people that found the HE6's power requirements to be more the the WA22 can deliver. I still don't get the WA5LE compare to the WA5, it seems that yours is running the 1/4 output off the same transformer tap as the K1000 runs off of in the WA5 which would be different than what the chart says. Perhaps Jack set yours up differently, or the chart is mistaken. I would assume the latter because otherwise all that power would be going unused.

  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> Hi Mike - by "Shuggie" I believe Grokit means the Shuguang Treasures.


 

 Yes.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Grokit,
> 
> Really great answers.
> 
> ...


 

 I am just going by experience and real life examples, perhaps a sound engineer would have a formula to share but I sure don't. The HifiMAN examples above are pretty clear when the headphones are rated at the same (50 Ohm) impedance, 89 dB is easier to drive than 83.5 dB. But it's not so simple when comparing a 50 Ohm headphone with a sensitivity rating of 91 dB to a 300 Ohm headphone with a sensitivity rating of 102 dB as we are trying to do with the HD800/LCD-2. *Do you have the same experience as I do, that the LCD-2 is louder at the same volume setting than the HD800 is when using the high impedance setting out of the WA22?*
   
  Headphone manufactures are not helping us out or are as confused as we are when they use three different terms for seemingly the same spec: "sensitivity", "efficiency", and "sound pressure level". So here I will quote another wiki on the subject:
   
  "Sensitivity is a measure of a transducer's output when driven with a specific reference input. *Headphone manufacturers often loosely use the term "efficiency" where sensitivity should be used.* Headphone efficiency (power in/power out) _is_ a type of sensitivity, but efficiency is usually not an important characteristic to measure for headphones (see Efficiency vs Sensitivity).
  Common "units" for headphone sensitivity are "dB/mW" and "dB/mV". This notation is an inappropriate simplification,[5] but what these mean are dB SPL (sound pressure level) measured in a standard ear for a 1 kHz sinusoidal headphone input of either 1 milliwatt or one millivolt. Technical notation would be "dB ref. 20μPa/mW" or "dB ref. 20μPa/mV". One can convert between these two references if the impedance is known."
   
  If you click on the "Efficiency vs. Sensitivity" link, it just gets more confusing, for me anyways. That's why I try to make sense out of how real-life examples seem to relate to published specs. Here is one more quote on the matter, this time from the Headwize Headphone Guide at Northwestern University:
   
  "*Sensitivity (loudness):* A measure of headphone efficiency in dBs SPL per milliwatt of input. A low number means that the headphones need more power to sound as loud as those which have a higher sensitivity. Headphones for portables need to be fairly sensitive because of the lower power output of portable stereos. Modern dynamic headphones have sensitivity ratings of 90 dB or more. When shopping for portable headphones, look for a sensitivity rating of 100 dB or greater.
*Impedance:* A measure of headphone load on an amplifier and stated in ohms. This factor is less important with solid state amplifiers, which can drive most headphone impedances, but can be significant with tube amplifiers, which are more sensitive to load impedances. Both consumer and professional headphones generally have impedances of less than 100 ohms. There are professional models rated at 200 ohms or more to minimize loading effects on distribution amplifiers which are often drive a whole bank of headphones at one time. Be aware that very high impedance phones may require more power - on the order of Watts instead of milliWatts."
  
  Hope this helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 !


----------



## Golfnutz

Mike, I was going to tell you to experiment with the Volume control on the W4S DAC-2, when listening to the 5998. I find the gain is a bit too much and I control it by using the variable volume control on my BDP-95. I always have it set to 80% for the 7236 and 5998. If you do use it, just be careful not to turn it down so low you loose resolution coming out of the DAC-2.


----------



## jerico

grokit said:


> Is less warm a good or bad thing for your preferences? For me they need a little cooling off out of the WA22.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.




Tough for me to answer that question!

I find the 22 so responsive to tube changing - which I consider a desirable trait, and one reason I love tube amps - that it's hard for me to discern the exact nature of the cans I use with it (mostly LCD2s at this point, sometimes T1s). Generally I find the LCD2 to need brighter tube combos, but sometimes I come across combos that make them sound great, even if that presentation is a little warm. Though I've never found any combos to make them TOO bright (so I guess that means I find them warm overall). Sometimes I wonder if its the 22 that is giving them the sound I'm used to, or if they're like that with other amps too, or wildly different with other amps. The only other amp i have around is a Ray Samuels SR71A, but I don't have the proper cable to connect the LCD2 to it.

I guess my experience with the T1 is the opposite - I've found tube combos that make them sound TOO bright, but never anything that made them sound too warm (and i generally find they a bit of warming up). Just very different cans. I like them both, in different ways - but not with the same tubes!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Tough for me to answer that question!
> 
> I find the 22 so responsive to tube changing - which I consider a desirable trait, and one reason I love tube amps - that it's hard for me to discern the exact nature of the cans I use with it (mostly LCD2s at this point, sometimes T1s). Generally I find the LCD2 to need brighter tube combos, but sometimes I come across combos that make them sound great, even if that presentation is a little warm. Though I've never found any combos to make them TOO bright (so I guess that means I find them warm overall). Sometimes I wonder if its the 22 that is giving them the sound I'm used to, or if they're like that with other amps too, or wildly different with other amps. The only other amp i have around is a Ray Samuels SR71A, but I don't have the proper cable to connect the LCD2 to it.
> 
> I guess my experience with the T1 is the opposite - I've found tube combos that make them sound TOO bright, but never anything that made them sound too warm (and i generally find they a bit of warming up). Just very different cans. I like them both, in different ways - but not with the same tubes!


 
   
   
  Substituting the T1 for my first HD800, I had that same issue where I couldn't find a tube combo that I liked with both headphones. Then I tried the tube combo mentioned in that Positive Feedback review, and I liked it quite a bit with the LCD-2. As their review was about the WA22 > HD800, I decided to give the HD800 another try but with a more recently manufactured model. Now I am very happy and am about to sell off quite a few tubes to simplify things further for me. The tubes I am referring to are Jack's currently recommended upgrade package on the WA22 page at Woo.com.
   
  There are only two variances of that tube combo that interests me: one is trying the TS 7236 as opposed to the Sylvania 7236; I tried that and the Tung Sol version wasn't an improvement for me. The second variance is one I should be trying today, as I would like to try an EML 274B as a substitute for the Sophia Princess 274B. I worked out a trade with another Head-fier to get that tube in trade for my new warranty replacement EML 5U4G but he mistakenly sent me my same 5U4G back by mistake, just picked it up today so that didn't really work out as planned...


----------



## jerico

grokit said:


> Substituting the T1 for my first HD800, I had that same issue where I couldn't find a tube combo that I liked with both headphones. Then I tried the tube combo mentioned in that Positive Feedback review, and I liked it quite a bit with the LCD-2. As their review was about the WA22 > HD800, I decided to give the HD800 another try but with a more recently manufactured model. Now I am very happy and am about to sell off quite a few tubes to simplify things further for me. The tubes I am referring to are Jack's currently recommended upgrade package on the WA22 page at Woo.com.
> 
> There are only two variances of that tube combo that interests me: one is trying the TS 7236 as opposed to the Sylvania 7236; I tried that and the Tung Sol version wasn't an improvement for me. The second variance is one I should be trying today, as I would like to try an EML 274B as a substitute for the Sophia Princess 274B. I worked out a trade with another Head-fier to get that tube in trade for my new warranty replacement EML 5U4G but he mistakenly sent me my same 5U4G back by mistake, just picked it up today so that didn't really work out as planned...




I've got a TS 7236 as well, but prefer the Sylvania 7236 to it at this point (TS probably needs more break-in). I still prefer 5998/2399 to either 7236 though - they give me the sparkle that i like with the LCD2. But I'm going to stick with the Syl7236/Treasure/EML 5U4G for a while and see how it shapes up. Out of the gate, I find the Treasures to be a little dry, though again they are low in hours at this point. But the combo isn't overly warm for my tastes - so I'll stick it out. One thing I will say though is, that i like the soundstage of the 7236 (both brands) better than the 2399/5998 - that seems pretty consistent.

Tube rolling being what it is, a lot of my own observations are nitpicking - most combos sound fine, just some sound finer than others (did I just paraphrase George Orwell?!).

In other news, I picked up a secondhand Wavelength Brick, which was sent out for upgrading to the latest version. I should get it next week - can't wait to give that a whirl!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I've got a TS 7236 as well, but prefer the Sylvania 7236 to it at this point (TS probably needs more break-in). I still prefer 5998/2399 to either 7236 though - they give me the sparkle that i like with the LCD2. But I'm going to stick with the Syl7236/Treasure/EML 5U4G for a while and see how it shapes up. Out of the gate, I find the Treasures to be a little dry, though again they are low in hours at this point. But the combo isn't overly warm for my tastes - so I'll stick it out. One thing I will say though is, that i like the soundstage of the 7236 (both brands) better than the 2399/5998 - that seems pretty consistent.
> 
> Tube rolling being what it is, a lot of my own observations are nitpicking - most combos sound fine, just some sound finer than others (did I just paraphrase George Orwell?!).
> 
> In other news, I picked up a secondhand Wavelength Brick, which was sent out for upgrading to the latest version. I should get it next week - can't wait to give that a whirl!


 

 I can't wait to get your impressions of the 'Brick' as well!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Mike, I was going to tell you to experiment with the Volume control on the W4S DAC-2, when listening to the 5998. I find the gain is a bit too much and I control it by using the variable volume control on my BDP-95. I always have it set to 80% for the 7236 and 5998. If you do use it, just be careful not to turn it down so low you loose resolution coming out of the DAC-2.


 

 Thanks for the tip.
   
  I have mine set to 60 with a floor of 0 and a max high of 70.  Clint at W4S said when they measured output, the cleanest was at 60.  I was thinking that as well before I talked with him, and I have my always set to 60.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am one of those people that found the HE6's power requirements to be more the the WA22 can deliver. I still don't get the WA5LE compare to the WA5, it seems that yours is running the 1/4 output off the same transformer tap as the K1000 runs off of in the WA5 which would be different than what the chart says. Perhaps Jack set yours up differently, or the chart is mistaken. I would assume the latter because otherwise all that power would be going unused.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.


 

 I don't really know what Jack did to my WA5LE other than do the parts upgrade, before he changed the parts upgrade that he uses now in the WA5LE. imo he used better V-Caps and more extensive parts upgrade before he changed to what he is using now. Plus he installed a ALPS RK50 pot in my WA5LE.
   
  Jack has made statements to the effect that there is no differences between the WA5LE and the WA5 when I got my WA5LE, other than the speaker taps and K1000 port.
   
  Now just to confuse this issue even more, some folks that have the WA5LE find that using the High imp jack sounds better with the HE6 than the Low imp jack. One owner asked Jack why the high imp jack sounds better with the HE6 but Jack never responded but did say he doesn't understand why this is.
  I my case I like the low imp jack of my WA5LE better than the high imp jack because of the added detail the low imp jack gives my HE6's and from what I know that should be the case using low imp headphones like the HE6.
   
  Anyway as I first stated when, I don't think anybody know why this is using a Headphone like the HE6. And it is for all these reasons why I got a hybrid LF amp to compare with my WA5LE. btw i have also compared many other amps but so far non have come close to my WA5LE using the HE6's.

 I will start to compare the LF to my WA5LE tonight.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I don't really know what Jack did to my WA5LE other than do the parts upgrade, before he changed the parts upgrade that he uses now in the WA5LE. imo he used better V-Caps and more extensive parts upgrade before he changed to what he is using now. Plus he installed a ALPS RK50 pot in my WA5LE.
> 
> Jack has made statements to the effect that there is no differences between the WA5LE and the WA5 when I got my WA5LE, other than the speaker taps and K1000 port.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you going to use any 'phones other than the HE6?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Are you going to use any 'phones other than the HE6?


 
  Yes, but for know its the HE6. I think icenine2 uses the LCD2's with the LF.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ok some of you want to go off of the detailed chart, but when that chart says 1.9W @ 60ohm for the WA6SE that is more powerful than the WA5LE and the WA22. Now consider that the WA5LE is .6W @ 60ohm, 1.3W @ 60 ohm less than the WA6SE from what the chart is saying. Having own both the WA6SE and the WA5LE and the HE6, there is something very wrong with how some of us are reading that chart or the chart itself. There is no way that the WA6SE can power the HE6 properly, and the chart says as much. Also from what I have read from folks that have the WA22 and have tried the HE6's with the WA22 say it can not properly power the HE6's. On the other hand there is nobody saying that the WA5LE can not properly power the HE6's.
> 
> According to that chart going by the watts of both the WA22 and WA6SE those amp should be better than the WA5LE, but in real life that is not the case.


 

 Power as measured in wattage is definitely only part of the story.  I imagine the WA5 is the flagship for a reason.... like I mentioned I'm just curious why the numbers are the way they are, especially since the 300B is capable of putting out so much power.  Perhaps it is voltage swing, damping factor, how current is delivered, or any number of other things that make the WA5 the top performer.  It wasn't my intention to suggest the amp isn't capable of what it is simply because of the numbers on the chart if that is how it seemed.  I just think it's curious how so little wattage is at the TRS jack when the design generates 8 watts of power per channel.  It's pure technical curiosity.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Power as measured in wattage is definitely only part of the story.  I imagine the WA5 is the flagship for a reason.... like I mentioned I'm just curious why the numbers are the way they are, especially since the 300B is capable of putting out so much power.  Perhaps it is voltage swing, damping factor, how current is delivered, or any number of other things that make the WA5 the top performer.  It wasn't my intention to suggest the amp isn't capable of what it is simply because of the numbers on the chart if that is how it seemed.  I just think it's curious how so little wattage is at the TRS jack when the design generates 8 watts of power per channel.  It's pure technical curiosity.


 


 Woo Audio has lowered the output into the headphone jacks this is for safety. You wouldn't want to turn on the source with the volume turned all the way up and have
  8 watts go into the headphones wile they are on your head. It could blow your ears out so they ether have resistors in line with the headphone jack or special winding
  on the output transformers. I don't understand why LCD-2s are rated at a max of 15 watts that's crazy not while they are on my head.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Substituting the T1 for my first HD800, I had that same issue where I couldn't find a tube combo that I liked with both headphones. Then I tried the tube combo mentioned in that Positive Feedback review, and I liked it quite a bit with the LCD-2. As their review was about the WA22 > HD800, I decided to give the HD800 another try but with a more recently manufactured model. Now I am very happy and am about to sell off quite a few tubes to simplify things further for me. The tubes I am referring to are Jack's currently recommended upgrade package on the WA22 page at Woo.com.
> 
> There are only two variances of that tube combo that interests me: one is trying the TS 7236 as opposed to the Sylvania 7236; I tried that and the Tung Sol version wasn't an improvement for me. The second variance is one I should be trying today, as I would like to try an EML 274B as a substitute for the Sophia Princess 274B. I worked out a trade with another Head-fier to get that tube in trade for my new warranty replacement EML 5U4G but he mistakenly sent me my same 5U4G back by mistake, just picked it up today so that didn't really work out as planned...


 


   


  Quote: 





jerico said:


> I've got a TS 7236 as well, but prefer the Sylvania 7236 to it at this point (TS probably needs more break-in). I still prefer 5998/2399 to either 7236 though - they give me the sparkle that i like with the LCD2. But I'm going to stick with the Syl7236/Treasure/EML 5U4G for a while and see how it shapes up. Out of the gate, I find the Treasures to be a little dry, though again they are low in hours at this point. But the combo isn't overly warm for my tastes - so I'll stick it out. One thing I will say though is, that i like the soundstage of the 7236 (both brands) better than the 2399/5998 - that seems pretty consistent.
> 
> Tube rolling being what it is, a lot of my own observations are nitpicking - most combos sound fine, just some sound finer than others (did I just paraphrase George Orwell?!).
> 
> In other news, I picked up a secondhand Wavelength Brick, which was sent out for upgrading to the latest version. I should get it next week - can't wait to give that a whirl!


 

 I find the TS7236s a little "tubier" than the SSish sounding Sylvania 7236s. Both are great and with the LCD-2s, I prefer the latter, with my T1/HD800s, I prefer the former.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am just going by experience and real life examples, perhaps a sound engineer would have a formula to share but I sure don't. The HifiMAN examples above are pretty clear when the headphones are rated at the same (50 Ohm) impedance, 89 dB is easier to drive than 83.5 dB. But it's not so simple when comparing a 50 Ohm headphone with a sensitivity rating of 91 dB to a 300 Ohm headphone with a sensitivity rating of 102 dB as we are trying to do with the HD800/LCD-2. *Do you have the same experience as I do, that the LCD-2 is louder at the same volume setting than the HD800 is when using the high impedance setting out of the WA22?*
> 
> Headphone manufactures are not helping us out or are as confused as we are when they use three different terms for seemingly the same spec: "sensitivity", "efficiency", and "sound pressure level". So here I will quote another wiki on the subject:
> 
> ...


 


  
   *Do you have the same experience as I do, that the LCD-2 is louder at the same volume setting than the HD800 is when using the high impedance setting out of the WA22? *
   
*  This is because of the impedance difference not the sensitivity if we do ohms law  e / I x R    E is voltage    I is amps   r is resistance*
*  Lets say the amp is set for 2 volts output and you plug in LCD-2s  50 ohms  2 / 50 =.04 amp  volts times amps = watts so 2 X .04 = .08 watts or 80 milliwatts.*
*  Now we plug in HD800s same 2 volts  2 / 300 = .0066 amp so 2 X .0066 = .0132 watts or 13.2 miliwatts*
* so at the same setting the LCD-2 would get 80 milliwatts and the HD800 would get 13.2 milliwatts *
*  But the HD800 is a more sensitive headphone.*
*   I shouldn't be posting at this point I drank a 1/3 of a bottle of Corralejo Tequila and listening to oldies on a FM station and I can barely type.*


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> *Do you have the same experience as I do, that the LCD-2 is louder at the same volume setting than the HD800 is when using the high impedance setting out of the WA22? *
> 
> *  This is because of the impedance difference not the sensitivity if we do ohms law  e / I x R    E is voltage    I is amps   r is resistance*
> *  Lets say the amp is set for 2 volts output and you plug in LCD-2s  50 ohms  2 / 50 =.04 amp  volts times amps = watts so 2 X .04 = .08 watts or 80 milliwatts.*
> ...


 

  
  Yeah that's why I said this in bold inside Mike's quote box, you probably missed it lol:
   
*"I wish it was this simple, but the impedance has to be taken into consideration."*
  But thanks for the math (Ohm's Law could be the formula that MM wants), and enjoy your *Corralejo*



*!*


----------



## mikemalter

So I tried the TungSol 5998 with the LCD-2 & HD800 tonight.  First this tube is way too powerful for me as the music has a ragged edge to it, IMHO.  I will say that the two headphones reacted differently and there were some surprises.
   
  Even though the HD800 in my mind has more detail to offer, it was surprisingly smoother than the LCD-2 with the 5998.  To me the 5998 has a ragged quality to it, and this was more pronounced with the LCD-2 than with the HD800 which I would have thought would have been the other way around.
   
  The other surprise, with the 5998, was that the LCD-2 had more detail to it than with the Sylvania 7236, but still could not surpass the HD800.  In the CD Tropicana Nights during the cut Mambo aLa Kenton a pair or maraca's starts in.  With the LCD-2 I could hear a maraca like sound, with the HD800's I could hear the little balls inside of the hollow shell.
   
  I actually could only listen for an hour and finally had to stop the music it was so raw.  At one point I had to stop listening to the LCD-2's, but could listen to the HD800's which as I said was very surprising because I thought the LCD-2's would have smoothed out the rough edges because it is a little earthier and woodier than the HD. 
   
  The thinking seems to be that 350 hours is what is needed to break in the LCD-2's, so this analysis may be somewhat premature.  It will be interesting to hear what differences there are, if any, in two more weeks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So I tried the TungSol 5998 with the LCD-2 & HD800 tonight.  First this tube is way too powerful for me as the music has a ragged edge to it, IMHO.  I will say that the two headphones reacted differently and there were some surprises.
> 
> Even though the HD800 in my mind has more detail to offer, it was surprisingly smoother than the LCD-2 with the 5998.  To me the 5998 has a ragged quality to it, and this was more pronounced with the LCD-2 than with the HD800 which I would have thought would have been the other way around.
> 
> ...


 

 Your updates continue to inform. I especially find delight in that you are open to possibilities with the cans/tubes combos and willing to explore on your time. You, or anyone for that matter, could just as easily pack it in and get back to your known preferences and enjoy your music. This makes your updates true contributions - you're doin' it for us, man!


----------



## Xcalibur255

That is interesting as many people have written they feel the 7236 is the more hard edged sound over the 5998.  Perhaps your pair of 5998 needs some run hours on them?
   
  Reading your posts really helps me gain perspective on my own evaluations.  I've discovered that whenever I'm in "eval" mode or in the mood to tinker or adjust I really don't enjoy listening much because my personal fussings get in the way.  This time, now that I've found a pair of tubes I really like, I'm just going to leave them in there for a good long while and simply enjoy them.  After a couple of hours of music tonight I've begun to ask myself why I even want to upgrade so badly in the first place.  Everything sounded great.  I occasionally get the impression of a constrained sound, a lack of true to life dynamics and bigness to the sound, which I hope the WA22 will cure one day.  But, I'm equally afraid of upsetting a balance I've spent a lot of effort achieving that I'm now pretty satisfied with.
   
  If only the thing called desire had a pause button on it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That is interesting as many people have written they feel the 7236 is the more hard edged sound over the 5998.  Perhaps your pair of 5998 needs some run hours on them?
> 
> Reading your posts really helps me gain perspective on my own evaluations.  I've discovered that whenever I'm in "eval" mode or in the mood to tinker or adjust I really don't enjoy listening much because my personal fussings get in the way.  This time, now that I've found a pair of tubes I really like, I'm just going to leave them in there for a good long while and simply enjoy them.  After a couple of hours of music tonight I've begun to ask myself why I even want to upgrade so badly in the first place.  Everything sounded great.  I occasionally get the impression of a constrained sound, a lack of true to life dynamics and bigness to the sound, which I hope the WA22 will cure one day.  But, I'm equally afraid of upsetting a balance I've spent a lot of effort achieving that I'm now pretty satisfied with.
> 
> If only the thing called desire had a pause button on it.


 

 Enter... the dragon (for example purposes, let's call the mythical beast 'Desire'). It's coming... and it's simply a matter of when! You've but two choices: One, you face it's pending arrival in hopes of containment and satisfaction. Two, look back in retrospect to see if you got lucky or was devastation simply left in its wake.
   
  No guarantees in this hobby. But at least I hope you prepare for what's sure to come. And make the best of your upgrades!


----------



## Skylab

Just a little hint that any of you Woo owners who have been searching for a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs might want to check the FS Forums


----------



## Icenine2

I'm using T-1's with the LF.  Never sounded better.  I would like the LCD2rev2's as well.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes, but for know its the HE6. I think icenine2 uses the LCD2's with the LF.


----------



## Icenine2

When I had the Woo22 I found the sound to my liking w/the T-1's tube combo : EML5u4g, Shuguang 100 Treasures matched, stock powers.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Just a little hint that any of you Woo owners who have been searching for a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs might want to check the FS Forums


 


 I just checked that forum and I could not find a listing.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Just a little hint that any of you Woo owners who have been searching for a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs might want to check the FS Forums


 


 Found it.  Sent PM.


----------



## mikemalter

Was planning on putting something out on ECC32's and the LCD-2/HD800 paring, but won't get to it tonight.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That is interesting as many people have written they feel the 7236 is the more hard edged sound over the 5998.  Perhaps your pair of 5998 needs some run hours on them?
> 
> Reading your posts really helps me gain perspective on my own evaluations.  I've discovered that whenever I'm in "eval" mode or in the mood to tinker or adjust I really don't enjoy listening much because my personal fussings get in the way.  This time, now that I've found a pair of tubes I really like, I'm just going to leave them in there for a good long while and simply enjoy them.  After a couple of hours of music tonight I've begun to ask myself why I even want to upgrade so badly in the first place.  Everything sounded great.  I occasionally get the impression of a constrained sound, a lack of true to life dynamics and bigness to the sound, which I hope the WA22 will cure one day.  But, I'm equally afraid of upsetting a balance I've spent a lot of effort achieving that I'm now pretty satisfied with.
> 
> If only the thing called desire had a pause button on it.


 

 It is possible that the 5998 tubes need some run hours on them.  I have only about 10 hours on them.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Three hundred hours.  Yeah, you're probably right.  It took almost a 1000 hours for my DAC-2 to settle in.  I think it takes a lot more hours than people realize for headphone stuff because there is such a higher level of detail involved.  I'll keep timing it.  I get 168 hours a week as I keep it going 24/7 and I am at 216 hours now, so about two more weeks should do it, do you think?
> 
> Yes, looking forward to another listening session.
> 
> 1000 hrs? do you just live it on forever?


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I just checked that forum and I could not find a listing
> 
> dam, you are fast


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brucysn said:


>


 


 I never turn my DAC off and I leave my BDP-1 playing on random all of the time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I never turn my DAC off and I leave my BDP-1 playing on random all of the time.


 


  Currently rewiring my system - same cabling but putting all components on a single surface close to each other; prior config had server, DAC and bridge close to the floor with the amps above on top shelf. you never know! Will fire up the rig in minutes. My main objective is to get everything away from the floor and static electricity.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Well I was about to pull the trigger on a Woo6 until I read in this thread that there's a new flagship (and maybe a DAC) coming along...looks like I'll wait around till late October/November in the event the pricing landscape gets shifted around!


----------



## flaming_june

Waiting may be best but it takes at least a month sometimes just to get your amp from when you order it.  So take that into account.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Yeah that's all well and good I understand how building to order works. Even so I think I'm going to wait given that he's introducing new products soon(ish). And hell, wait a bit more and there might be a sweetener for purchasing around the holidays!


----------



## Icenine2

Plus the new amp I would expect to be $3K+


----------



## grmnasasin0227

True, but new flagship products (at least in my experience) usually mean price drops as the old flagship moves down to a lower tier, and the unit just below the old flagship moves down, and so on.


----------



## bobeau

You do realize the Woo 6 is an old amp, right?  Like at least 5-6 years old.  I don't believe its ever had a price drop, just the inclusion of the PDPS which was a popular upgrade coinciding w/ removal of the upgrade package option, but I believe that was at least a couple years ago.
   
  That said, why buy this new when mint used WA6s show up in the classifieds all the time, usually w/ upgraded tubes for significantly less than new?  I guess that goes w/ most audio gear, I just don't understand why people buy new unless it's a brand new to the market item.


----------



## sampson_smith

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> True, but new flagship products (at least in my experience) usually mean price drops as the old flagship moves down to a lower tier, and the unit just below the old flagship moves down, and so on.


 
   
   
  This is simply untrue. The WA6 will not be in direct competition with the new flagship model as there will not be consumer-base overlap (as one is mid-fi at ~$600 and the other is high-end and 5x as costly). The WA6 is a classic, long produced by Woo amp and, based on what I recall, has never had a price reduction. (Only increase in cost with the inclusion of the PDPS.)


----------



## Icenine2

+
  Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> This is simply untrue. The WA6 will not be in direct competition with the new flagship model as there will not be consumer-base overlap (as one is mid-fi at ~$600 and the other is high-end and 5x as costly). The WA6 is a classic, long produced by Woo amp and, based on what I recall, has never had a price reduction. (Only increase in cost with the inclusion of the PDPS.)


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Sorry I guess audio equipment doesn't really work the same way as electronics, apparently the price just continues to rise 

 As for the FS threads on the WA6, I can't really comment. From what I can see there's only 2 units that are available (one in the UK only), and that's going back 5 pages. All I can say is I'm not sure if that really constitutes a steady used supply of them for easy buying.


----------



## Silent One

Like running water, Woo Audio amps up for sale varies throughout the year. The low numbers (availability) also lend/add value to WA amps, something you'll come to appreciate with new ownership.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Sorry I guess audio equipment doesn't really work the same way as electronics, apparently the price just continues to rise
> 
> As for the FS threads on the WA6, I can't really comment. From what I can see there's only 2 units that are available (one in the UK only), and that's going back 5 pages. All I can say is I'm not sure if that really constitutes a steady used supply of them for easy buying.


 

 It's not so much audio equipment vs. electronics, but actually having an item that is the beneficiary of innovations that can reduce costs to manufacture.   A high volume SS amp built on an assembly line by robots... or perhaps better DACS thru newer chips/opamps/circuits? Sure. But for a hand soldered piece of equipment using all discrete components, there's nothing in its nature that would allow progress in reduced labor and component costs. 
   
  You may not see many available because they usually sell quickly.  Check out the archives.  There seems to be at least one sold every week or two.  Not sure about seasonality but over the past few mos of watching the classifieds I've seen quite a few pop up.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

That's a good point, I failed to remember that these are all handmade by a craftsman. Well regardless, it would be neat to see if he comes out with a DAC or not, as it would make for a more interesting choice to be made


----------



## BrucYSN

I know jack been working on a new DAC for a while , but what's up with this new amp?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Sorry I guess audio equipment doesn't really work the same way as electronics, apparently the price just continues to rise
> 
> As for the FS threads on the WA6, I can't really comment. From what I can see there's only 2 units that are available (one in the UK only), and that's going back 5 pages. All I can say is I'm not sure if that really constitutes a steady used supply of them for easy buying.


 

 They pop up more frequently than you think actually, it is just that they sell fast.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> They pop up more frequently than you think actually, it is just that they sell fast.


 

 Almost as fast as GEC 6AS7G's!


----------



## grokit

I would say that overall the Woos might pop up on a fairly regular basis but not any particular model. But the WA6 might be the most popular one so there you go. I picked up my WA22 in the FS forum and there were 2 or 3 of them available at that time.


----------



## Silent One

Any Woo Audio owners have a run at using a linear regulated power supply or battery supply w/ W4S DAC-1's & DAC-2's?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Any Woo Audio owners have a run at using a linear regulated power supply or battery supply for their W4S DAC-1's & DAC-2's?


 

 You mean like a PS Audio power regenerator?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You mean like a PS Audio power regenerator?


 

 Not quite that extensive. Rather, an external supply or battery supply. A linear regulated supply brought my EMU-0404 added depth; weight, to my presentation. From what I hear, Bolder makes great linear supplies but a lil' out of my reach. Looking to kick sonics a bit higher with the W4S shoe-box!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not quite that extensive. Rather, an external supply or battery supply. A linear regulated supply brought my EMU-0404 added depth; weight, to my presentation. From what I hear, Bolder makes great linear supplies but a lil' out of my reach. Looking to kick sonics a bit higher with the W4S shoe-box!


 


 Do you think that a dedicated computer UPS to isolate the power would make a difference?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Do you think that a dedicated computer UPS to isolate the power would make a difference?


 

 I think having the computer on a different power outlet helps.  I use an APC XS 1500 for my Mac on a separate outlet.  Also the battery backup seems to have extended the life of my external drives.
   
   I have my gear on a separate line. Soon I will be looking for an electrician to install a separate 20 amp line from the breaker box just for the rig to juice up on.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I think having the computer on a different power outlet helps.  I use an APC XS 1500 for my Mac on a separate outlet.  Also the battery backup seems to have extended the life of my external drives.
> 
> I have my gear on a separate line. Soon I will be looking for an electrician to install a separate 20 amp line from the breaker box just for the rig to juice up on.


 

 I meant dedicating a separate UPS for the DAC.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Do you think that a dedicated computer UPS to isolate the power would make a difference?


 

 Not sure. But what I'm seeking comes before a UPS and other auxiliary components. I'm searching for a dedicated Linear Regulated Power Supply or a LiFePO4/SLA battery solution in place of the DAC-1's internal power supply which is good, by the way. W4S/Cullen does good internals. I just want to kick it up to the next sonic level!





  For example, I'm reviewing the option of running a 12volt cable out of my Mac bypassing the internal SMPS and connecting directly to battery power. Or a custom Linear supply for the Mac. I simply want to do the same for the DAC-1.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I think having the computer on a different power outlet helps.  I use an APC XS 1500 for my Mac on a separate outlet.  Also the battery backup seems to have extended the life of my external drives.
> 
> I have my gear on a separate line. Soon I will be looking for an electrician to install a separate 20 amp line from the breaker box just for the rig to juice up on.


 

 You got it good! I can't tamper - staying as a guest temporarily in another's home. I will plug-in my Woo (analogue) into a separate outlet soon, though...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not sure. But what I'm seeking comes before a UPS and other auxiliary components. I'm searching for a dedicated Linear Regulated Power Supply or a LiFePO4/SLA battery solution in place of the DAC-1's internal power supply which is good, by the way. W4S/Cullen does good internals. I just want to kick it up to the next sonic level!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How would you achieve this with eW4S DAC?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How would you achieve this with eW4S DAC?


 


  What, the Linear supply or battery? Either would depend on the vendor's design. I really like what RWA, Mach2music & PiAudiogroup are doing in this light to take things off the grid. And makers like Bolder for Linear supplies... 
   
  The one item that seems to be Mi$$ing?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I meant dedicating a separate UPS for the DAC.


 

 I didn't think that UPSes are really that good for audio equipment with respect to clean power.  I see them as more for protection than anything else.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I didn't think that UPSes are really that good for audio equipment with respect to clean power.  I see them as more for protection than anything else.


 

 I've heard the same thing.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Any Woo Audio owners have a run at using a linear regulated power supply or battery supply w/ W4S DAC-1's & DAC-2's?


 


  Does the stock unit have a switching PSU?  I've heard lots of arguments about switching vs. linear on the tripath side of things.  There is a general feeling that switching supplies are considered inferior, but if the unit is well designed and is regulated this is almost entirely untrue.  The most common comment I see is linear seems to add a bit of weight and drive to the music, but this is in reference to an amp and not a DAC. 
   
  I never tried the wall wart switching PSU that came with my VDA-2.  Since I ordered the upgraded linear supply from day one that is all I ever plugged into the unit.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Does the stock unit have a switching PSU?  I've heard lots of arguments about switching vs. linear on the tripath side of things.  There is a general feeling that switching supplies are considered inferior, but if the unit is well designed and is regulated this is almost entirely untrue.  The most common comment I see is linear seems to add a bit of weight and drive to the music, but this is in reference to an amp and not a DAC.
> 
> I never tried the wall wart switching PSU that came with my VDA-2.  Since I ordered the upgraded linear supply from day one that is all I ever plugged into the unit.


 

 Depending on a DAC's design (analogue or switching) it too, can have the same benefits of more weight and drive. This is the same benefit I got when I dumped my wall-wart for a linear regulated transformer supply on my EMU-0404 USB Interface (DAC) - night & day! Additionally, the Mac can benefit from both Linear & Battery supply outside its chassis.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I didn't think that UPSes are really that good for audio equipment with respect to clean power.  I see them as more for protection than anything else.


 

 That's what I have always thought as well, but why go to the bother of re-generating dirty power with mixed results when we could completely isolate our sensitive audio components from the grid with a battery-powered UPS? I am starting to see the wisdom in Vinnie's approach at Red Wine Audio, where many of their components run off of their own internal battery. Lately he's even been incorporating a 12v output from his DAC/amp combos so you can have other things like the bridges and transports running off of that same isolated, internal battery. To my way of thinking this is the same thing electrically as running a component off of a separate UPS.
   
  Other companies besides RWA are doing this as well. There's a few phono stages that I can think of, as well as the Grado headphone amps, where the battery-operated version has a better reputation for fidelity than its AC-powered counterpart.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's what I have always thought as well, but why go to the bother of re-generating dirty power with mixed results when we could completely isolate our sensitive audio components from the grid with a battery-powered UPS? I am starting to see the wisdom in Vinnie's approach at Red Wine Audio, where many of their components run off of their own internal battery. Lately he's even been incorporating a 12v output from his DAC/amp combos so you can have other things like the bridges and transports running off of that same isolated, internal battery. To my way of thinking this is the same thing electrically as running a component off of a separate UPS.
> 
> Other companies besides RWA are doing this as well. There's a few phono stages that I can think of, as well as the Grado headphone amps, where the battery-operated version has a better reputation for fidelity than its AC-powered counterpart.


 

 I too, like RWA/Vinnie's approach! PiAudio Group is doing the same with their battery buss so the user can connect other system components to battery power.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Other companies besides RWA are doing this as well. There's a few phono stages that I can think of, as well as the Grado headphone amps, where the battery-operated version has a better reputation for fidelity than its AC-powered counterpart.


 

 This is one of the reasons why I'm having trouble getting rid of my Ack Dack 2.0 which I've had since '05... despite some of its faults, it throws a seductively black background.  The only thing is I have to remember to shut it off within an 8 hour period as to not drain the battery.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> This is one of the reasons why I'm having trouble getting rid of my Ack Dack 2.0 which I've had since '05... despite some of its faults, it throws a seductively black background.  The only thing is I have to remember to shut it off within an 8 hour period as to not drain the battery.


 

 Interesting. Haven't been to LoCal in awhile (SD/La Jolla). But I will be on the lookout to see if I can't get a listen soon... love the battery option it has! How does/did it pair with your Woo?


----------



## Szadzik

Shoot, just got an email from Jack of Wooland, saying that there is a delay in building my amp. I am going back in hthe field soon and will probably not listen to it until I come back, shooooooot!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Shoot, just got an email from Jack of Wooland, saying that there is a delay in building my amp. I am going back in hthe field soon and will probably not listen to it until I come back, shooooooot!


 

 I had two hurdles to deal with last year. My amp arrived 9 July, 2010 but I ordered 2 May, 2010. I faced a strong demand from Spring orders and then Jack shut down production for Can-Jam. But, at least I didn't have to hit the road for travel. Hang in there!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's what I have always thought as well, but why go to the bother of re-generating dirty power with mixed results when we could completely isolate our sensitive audio components from the grid with a battery-powered UPS? I am starting to see the wisdom in Vinnie's approach at Red Wine Audio, where many of their components run off of their own internal battery. Lately he's even been incorporating a 12v output from his DAC/amp combos so you can have other things like the bridges and transports running off of that same isolated, internal battery. To my way of thinking this is the same thing electrically as running a component off of a separate UPS.
> 
> Other companies besides RWA are doing this as well. There's a few phono stages that I can think of, as well as the Grado headphone amps, where the battery-operated version has a better reputation for fidelity than its AC-powered counterpart.


 

 I don't believe you get battery power from a UPS unless the electricity is cut.  I think it runs on AC unless there is an outage.


----------



## Skylab

Isn't there also some problem with current-limiting with many/most UPS's?


----------



## LUMAZ

To all WA22 owners:
  Hi guys, do you have in mind Jack's "Woo Audio amplifier comparisons" table?
  In the category "Euphonic" our ampli beats also the WA5 and the WA5-LE! What do you think about it? Do you agree with him?
  Also it would be interesting to know if Jack has compiled his Comparisons table with all his models equipped with stock tubes or with upgrade tubes.
  IMHO I think the WA22 with upgrade tubes and in balanced mode is really an excellent headphone ampli and that probably it is at the same level of Wa5-LE.
  Did anybody hear WA22 and Wa5-LE for a reasonable amount of time and can make his personal comparison?


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I had two hurdles to deal with last year. My amp arrived 9 July, 2010 but I ordered 2 May, 2010. I faced a strong demand from Spring orders and then Jack shut down production for Can-Jam. But, at least I didn't have to hit the road for travel. Hang in there!


 


  Not very happy about this. I talked to Jack when I was ordering the amp because I only spend some time at home and then go back to work for almost 3 months. I am not sure I like this situation. Not sure what will happen if I leave and then the amp arrives. There is not always someone to pick a parcel from the courier at home.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Not very happy about this. I talked to Jack when I was ordering the amp because I only spend some time at home and then go back to work for almost 3 months. I am not sure I like this situation. Not sure what will happen if I leave and then the amp arrives. There is not always someone to pick a parcel from the courier at home.


 

 I would: either delay shipping or have Jack ship to an alternate address (family). Likely, the former and have Jack ship it on-demand just prior to my return from the field. He's very flexible.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> To all WA22 owners:
> Hi guys, do you have in mind Jack's "Woo Audio amplifier comparisons" table?
> In the category "Euphonic" our ampli beats also the WA5 and the WA5-LE! What do you think about it? Do you agree with him?
> Also it would be interesting to know if Jack has compiled his Comparisons table with all his models equipped with stock tubes or with upgrade tubes.
> ...


 


  Greetings LUMAZ! Many of us are familiar with the chart, 5-series & 22-series owners among us. But the chart doesn't tell the whole story, they're entirely two different amps. To draw conclusions from the chart that one amp bests another in a category or two so it is better would be premature (nor responsible). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Perhaps, when you come to the USA...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I don't believe you get battery power from a UPS unless the electricity is cut.  I think it runs on AC unless there is an outage.


 

 Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Evidently there are two different types of UPS technologies:
   
  "There are two common systems in use today: standby UPS and continuous UPS. A *standby UPS* runs the computer off of the normal utility power until it detects a problem. At that point, it very quickly (in five milliseconds or less) turns on a power inverter and runs the computer off of the UPS's battery.
   
  In a *continuous UPS*, the computer is always running off of battery power and the battery is continuously being recharged. You could fairly easily build a continuous UPS yourself with a largish battery charger, a battery and a power inverter.
   
  Standby UPS systems are far more common for home or small-business use because they tend to cost about half as much as a continuous system. Continuous systems provide extremely clean, stable power, so they tend to be used in server rooms and mission critical applications."
   
  http://www.howstuffworks.com/question28.htm
   
  This makes the RWA approach all the more impressive to me.
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Isn't there also some problem with current-limiting with many/most UPS's?


 
   
  This one seems a little harder to research, there's some info that says that the current is limited for charging and discharge of the battery, but in the standby scenario above I haven't found anything that supports this yet. If you have any info on this I would be interested. The current limiting while charging does help explain why I have problems with UPS units when I am running off generator power, I have to bypass them for the most part when that happens.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I would: either delay shipping or have Jack ship to an alternate address (family). Likely, the former and have Jack ship it on-demand just prior to my return from the field. He's very flexible.


 


  I had the same thought about delaying postage until I come back in November. 
   
  Problem is, I do not trust anyone and am a bit afraid there will be a dealy when I get back again, because the amp built for me will be sold while I am away.


----------



## grokit

This caught my eye this morning, it seems a little dubious to me to be selling these as a "matched pair" but maybe looks aren't everything?:
   

   
*6SN7GT B Tung Sol & GE Matched pair - tests Good*


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> To all WA22 owners:
> Hi guys, do you have in mind Jack's "Woo Audio amplifier comparisons" table?
> In the category "Euphonic" our ampli beats also the WA5 and the WA5-LE! What do you think about it? Do you agree with him?
> Also it would be interesting to know if Jack has compiled his Comparisons table with all his models equipped with stock tubes or with upgrade tubes.
> ...


 
   
  Not better or worse, but the WA22 would be the most "tubey" sounding according to that chart, so it could be interpreted that rolling would have the greatest impact


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I had the same thought about delaying postage until I come back in November.
> 
> Problem is, I do not trust anyone and am a bit afraid there will be a dealy when I get back again, because the amp built for me will be sold while I am away.


 
  Inform him you'd like to modify your order as a "Time order," ready to be delivered at a specific time.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Inform him you'd like to modify your order as a "Time order," ready to be delivered at a specific time.


 


   
  Good advice. I will do that.
   
  P.S. I am still very unsatisfied with what happened with my order.


----------



## grokit

If anybody is still interested that "Warning about Kyle of Reference Audio Mods" thread has gone off the veritable deep end:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/566728/warning-about-kyle-of-reference-audio-mods#post_7675269


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Good advice. I will do that.
> 
> P.S. I am still very unsatisfied with what happened with my order.


 


  I understand your disappointment. But I'm almost certain (I am) that the delay was unavoidable - your circumstance makes it even less desirable. You really are in good hands, though...




  By the way, what model are you waiting on?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> This caught my eye this morning, it seems a little dubious to me to be selling these as a "matched pair" but maybe looks aren't everything?:
> 
> 
> 
> *6SN7GT B Tung Sol & GE Matched pair - tests Good*


 

 Well, if the seller knows how to use his tester correctly then he technically is not lying..... they are matched Gm pair, though they likely will sound radically different in each channel for tone.  This is a good example of a person needing to be comfortable in their tube knowledge before buying from eBay though.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I understand your disappointment. But I'm almost certain (I am) that the delay was unavoidable - your circumstance makes it even less desirable. You really are in good hands, though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  I am not so sure. 
  Here is my situation.
   
  At the end of July I contacted him for a quote and paid 25% of the order value. 
  He said shipping date would be Aug 15th.
  I promised to pay the rest on Aug 5th.
  I paid the money in on Aug 10th.
  I received confirmation he got the money.
  On Aug 15th or 16th I received no information regarding shipping so I sent an email asking for tracking number.
  I was advised there was a delay and it would be sent on Friday 19th or Monday 22nd. 
  I explained it would be too late and I would be away already.
  Then suddenly he says he _can _send the amp today and it will reach me on Tuesday (I will be gone by Tue morning).
   
  Now he says that the delay is caused by the fact that my 2nd installment was late? It was still there almost a week before the agreed shipping date.
   
  The most puzzling is the last part where there was a big delay and suddenly the amp was ready to be sent today and I now feel like the whole delay was just a hoax, maybe there was someone he wanted to send an amp to first, no idea.
   
  Waiting for a WA2.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I am not so sure.
> Here is my situation.
> 
> At the end of July I contacted him for a quote and paid 25% of the order value.
> ...


 
  That's really goofy man, I'm not sure what to say. I hate it when sellers have "issues" that aren't really born from a problem. Have you contacted him since then for a confirmed ship date/tracking number?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If anybody is still interested that "Warning about Kyle of Reference Audio Mods" thread has gone off the veritable deep end:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/566728/warning-about-kyle-of-reference-audio-mods#post_7675269


 

 I noticed!  Both sides!    what a crazy comedy...


----------



## FlyingBear

The same thing happened to me, when my WES was delayed for about a month. Apparently, Woo decided to improve the design (and, a little while later, they added the line "Mills and Kiwame resistors" to the description of the WES on the website, so maybe that was the improvement). I was given the option of getting my amp quickly without the improvements, or a few weeks later with them.
   
  There are many companies that would simply ship the current design and then roll out the new design when they had the parts. Nothing wrong with that, but I really appreciated Woo's offer to wait for a little and get the improved product.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I had two hurdles to deal with last year. My amp arrived 9 July, 2010 but I ordered 2 May, 2010. I faced a strong demand from Spring orders and then Jack shut down production for Can-Jam. But, at least I didn't have to hit the road for travel. Hang in there!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Now he says that the delay is caused by the fact that my 2nd installment was late? It was still there almost a week before the agreed shipping date.
> 
> The most puzzling is the last part where there was a big delay and suddenly the amp was ready to be sent today and I now feel like the whole delay was just a hoax, maybe there was someone he wanted to send an amp to first, no idea.
> 
> Waiting for a WA2.


 

 Normally you are asked to pay the entire amount immediately upon ordering, so perhaps your order was being held until the rest of the payment was received.  There is a lot of fraud and scamming with this sort of thing, and small boutique audio companies get burned by it sometimes so you can't really fault them for being cautious.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Normally you are asked to pay the entire amount immediately upon ordering, so perhaps your order was being held until the rest of the payment was received.  There is a lot of fraud and scamming with this sort of thing, and small boutique audio companies get burned by it sometimes so you can't really fault them for being cautious.


 

 True. What's more, method of payment and country of origin sometimes play a part in the extra time it takes to 'clear' a transaction. But you 'Hit it' Xcalibur255, it's nearly 2012 and fraud is running as rampant as ever! On a side note, I caused my own delay initially and had to wait an additional four months. I had been saving up for a WA6. The closer I got to the purchase amount, the more I began to look at photos of the amp.
   
  Then a day or two before ordering, cruising the head-fi threads I saw a shot of Orcin's beautiful black _WA 6 Special Edition_... I was no mo' good! Had to have it, so I started to save anew to make the difference.


----------



## Silent One

Nurse: _"The Doctor will see you now, Silent One..."_
   

 Last night, I had the pleasure of taking my Raytheon 6SN7 tubes to fellow Woo mate Shipsupt's place (the aforementioned doctor) and get my tubes thoroughly checked-out. Despite being in the middle of a busy work week, he not only made time for me, he turned out to be a terrific host as well. Thanks kindly, shipsupt, I am grateful. It was a delight learning more about his style with music and gear. My Raytheon's receiving a clean bill of health was merely icing on the cake!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> The same thing happened to me, when my WES was delayed for about a month. Apparently, Woo decided to improve the design (and, a little while later, they added the line "Mills and Kiwame resistors" to the description of the WES on the website, so maybe that was the improvement). I was given the option of getting my amp quickly without the improvements, or a few weeks later with them.
> 
> There are many companies that would simply ship the current design and then roll out the new design when they had the parts. Nothing wrong with that, but I really appreciated Woo's offer to wait for a little and get the improved product.


 

 Viewpoint  . :       :  :
   
  In my own purchasing experience with my first Woo Audio amp, I strove to be a great customer despite delays and the reasons behind them. Jack kept me informed, and wanting him to be successful I gave him the latitude he needed. I saw it as establishing a relationship not picking up a commodity. One year in, I've already reaped benefits - a solid amp that has yet to need attention and assistance on tube purchases. Questions? He's answered them for me around the clock whether 3 pm  or 3 am (1500/0300). In fact, he now has me on _Speed-dial!_ O.k., maybe not, but you get the idea... _another happy customer!_


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Normally you are asked to pay the entire amount immediately upon ordering, so perhaps your order was being held until the rest of the payment was received.  There is a lot of fraud and scamming with this sort of thing, and small boutique audio companies get burned by it sometimes so you can't really fault them for being cautious.


 


  It would be an interesting to scam someone by paying them an x amount fo money into their account 


  Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> That's really goofy man, I'm not sure what to say. I hate it when sellers have "issues" that aren't really born from a problem. Have you contacted him since then for a confirmed ship date/tracking number?


 


  It is not going to be sent any time soon as I have no one to collect it when I am away. He has not confirmed that my order weill be timed now, but I hope that is what is gonna happen.


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Viewpoint  . :       :  :
> In my own purchasing experience with my first Woo Audio amp, I strove to be a great customer despite delays and the reasons behind them. Jack kept me informed, and wanting him to be successful I gave him the latitude he needed. I saw it as establishing a relationship not picking up a commodity. One year in, I've already reaped benefits - a solid amp that has yet to need attention and assistance on tube purchases. Questions? He's answered them for me around the clock whether 3 pm  or 3 am (1500/0300). In fact, he now has me on _Speed-dial!_ O.k., maybe not, but you get the idea... _another happy customer!_


 


  I was on the same track trying to be a great customer, but when after 2 days from agreed shipping date I had no information on shipping and only upon enquiring I was told there is a delay I got a bit awestruck by the lack of information.


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> True. What's more, method of payment and country of origin sometimes play a part in the extra time it takes to 'clear' a transaction. But you 'Hit it' Xcalibur255, it's nearly 2012 and fraud is running as rampant as ever! On a side note, I caused my own delay initially and had to wait an additional four months. I had been saving up for a WA6. The closer I got to the purchase amount, the more I began to look at photos of the amp.
> Then a day or two before ordering, cruising the head-fi threads I saw a shot of Orcin's beautiful black _WA 6 Special Edition_... I was no mo' good! Had to have it, so I started to save anew to make the difference.


 


  Again, as funny as it sounds, I sent the money from the UK, not Bangladesh or Zimbabwe (sorry no offense to those from these countries). How could I scam someone by sending him a payment? And then sending the rest of it? Strange.


----------



## spagetka

I was waiting for my WA5 3months...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> It would be an interesting to scam someone by paying them an x amount fo money into their account
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Scams ~
   
  I could provide you with some eye-opening scenarios, some tried & proven and some still-to-come regarding payments/shipments/claims merchants worldwide have to deal with. However, warnings would be appropriate in this thread but I'm not sure about full fledged write-ups in this publicly indexed forum. A Credit Card representative/ Bank Merchant representative/ebay or Paypal representative/ Customs representative could answer a lot of your questions, leaving you to be a more informed consumer.
   
  I feel terrible about your dilemma but know some how, some way Jack will do the right thing. Convenient? Maybe not. By chance, will your field trip take you to the USA?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> I was waiting for my WA5 3months...


 


  You've one of the great Avatar's on head-fi! Great to see you this morning...


----------



## Unomelodica

Kinda in a dilema Been reading ...then some  ...and then some more .....
   
  Mac/optical / ALAC - Cans are HD650 ,music tastes jazz /soul/ funk / brazilian/ studio 1 .
   
  I'm torn between two setups .Im looking at getting the best out of the cans in terms of soundstage clarity etc etc......
   
  Setup 1 - Woo Audio 6 - Dac Not sure , recomendations would be good
   
  Setup 2 - Littele dot Dac 1 / Little dot VII+ (balanced setup)
   
  Budget well say £600 UK - I know the setup 2 will come in less then that new .
   
  Thoughts and guidance more then welcome.
   
  Thanks
   
  Unomelodica


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





unomelodica said:


> Kinda in a dilema Been reading ...then some  ...and then some more .....
> 
> Mac/optical / ALAC - Cans are HD650 ,music tastes jazz /soul/ funk / brazilian/ studio 1 .
> 
> ...


 

_A silent note made visible..._
   
  Which Cat - Leopard, Snow Leopard or Lion?
  Did you migrate from a previous system? Tubes in a past set up?
  What is the Optical cable connected to now?
  iTunes and/or a software music player?
  HD650 re-cabled? 
   
  Mulling over some of the options you have. Great taste in music, by the way!


----------



## Unomelodica

Which Cat - Leopard, Snow Leopard or Lion? - snow leopard
  Did you migrate from a previous system? Tubes in a past set up? - Had a vinyl replay system which had a tube amp (puresound) / gyrodec / still have the gyro but moved the amp on.
  What is the Optical cable connected to now? - just at the start of this journey looking at source /amp options.
  iTunes and/or a software music player? - itunes currently - will look into alternatives ,seem limited compared to say a windows based system
  HD650 re-cabled? - not at the moment but am looking at cardas/ moon / zu (possibly balanced)
   
  Appreciate the response ,im not averse to looking at used items .
   
  Thanks
   
  Unomelodica


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





unomelodica said:


> Which Cat - Leopard, Snow Leopard or Lion? - snow leopard
> Did you migrate from a previous system? Tubes in a past set up? - Had a vinyl replay system which had a tube amp (puresound) / gyrodec / still have the gyro but moved the amp on.
> What is the Optical cable connected to now? - just at the start of this journey looking at source /amp options.
> iTunes and/or a software music player? - itunes currently - will look into alternatives ,seem limited compared to say a windows based system
> ...


 
   
   
  Kinda in a dilema Been reading ...then some  ...and then some more .....

   

  Mac/optical / ALAC - Cans are HD650 ,music tastes jazz /soul/ funk / brazilian/ studio 1 .

   

  I'm torn between two setups .Im looking at getting the best out of the cans in terms of soundstage clarity etc etc......

   

  Setup 1 - Woo Audio 6 - Dac Not sure , recomendations would be good

   

  Setup 2 - Littele dot Dac 1 / Little dot VII+ (balanced setup)

   

  Budget well say £600 UK - I know the setup 2 will come in less then that new .

   

  Thoughts and guidance more then welcome.

   

  Thanks

   

  Unomelodica _______________________

   

   

_Will look forward to your forthcoming recommendations with fascination. If I see something of interest I'll weigh in... _


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I feel terrible about your dilemma but know some how, some way Jack will do the right thing. Convenient? Maybe not. By chance, will your field trip take you to the USA?


 


  I bet everything will be ok, just a temporary problem. I simply got a bit annoyed with the lack of communication on his side when he did not inform me about the delay.
   
  My field trips are to Asia, so too far away


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I bet everything will be ok, just a temporary problem. I simply got a bit annoyed with the lack of communication on his side when he did not inform me about the delay.
> 
> My field trips are to Asia, so too far away


 

 Yes, you're absolutely right, all will end well. At least your trips get you out of the house... and not just down the street! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  FYI - Jack is working round-the-clock; Woo Audio has been gearing up for a HUGE product launch Mid-October (I'm sure you've been following audio news).


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I am not so sure.
> Here is my situation.
> 
> At the end of July I contacted him for a quote and paid 25% of the order value.
> ...


 

 I have ordered my WA22, last November, and, at the same time I sent to Jack half the sum requested, then, after a month (as stated by Jack in his first answer to my ordering email), I have received my WA22 here in Italy (and keep in mind that it was Christmas's time!)
  In my first email I asked total price with the Sophia Princess 274B included, then after some days I rewrote to him asking to cancel my request for the Sophia and he didn't make no objection at all.
  For me Jack Woo is an excellent manufacturer and seller.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





unomelodica said:


> Kinda in a dilema Been reading ...then some  ...and then some more .....
> 
> Mac/optical / ALAC - Cans are HD650 ,music tastes jazz /soul/ funk / brazilian/ studio 1 .
> 
> ...


 

  
You're not going to find many recommendations for a Little Dot tube amp in _this_ thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: just realized that the VII+ is a sold-state amp, my bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If you go with a WA6, you won't need a balanced DAC either. I would heartily advise you check into the new Schiit BiFrost as a single-ended DAC for the WA6. It promises to have cutting-edge conversion technology by some of the industry's top engineers, and the first batch of pre-sold units will be shipping at the end of this month.


----------



## Icenine2

I have_ got_ to hear a WES at some point.  I wonder what that would sound like if you added a Smyth Realizer?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> The same thing happened to me, when my WES was delayed for about a month. Apparently, Woo decided to improve the design (and, a little while later, they added the line "Mills and Kiwame resistors" to the description of the WES on the website, so maybe that was the improvement). I was given the option of getting my amp quickly without the improvements, or a few weeks later with them.
> 
> There are many companies that would simply ship the current design and then roll out the new design when they had the parts. Nothing wrong with that, but I really appreciated Woo's offer to wait for a little and get the improved product.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I have_ got_ to hear a WES at some point.  I wonder what that would sound like if you added a Smyth Realizer?


 


  (Hmmm, let's see... Bears & Honey)  
   
  I too, would like to get a listen to a WES at some point like... this Fall! I wonder if I could bribe FlyingBear with something good so that I (perhaps, shipsupt and a few others Bay side)  could have a listen.


----------



## Icenine2

How many of you guys live in the Bay Area?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> How many of you guys live in the Bay Area?


 

 I do.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> How many of you guys live in the Bay Area?


 


  (Bi-regional, in between the Bay & LA until I return to work)
   
  Me too! In fact, there's a good number of both head-fier's and Computer Audiophile members living 'round these parts. If I keep meeting members, I could forgo vendors & restocking fees...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I have_ got_ to hear a WES at some point.  I wonder what that would sound like if you added a Smyth Realizer?


 

 As long as you get the latest Smyth (or get one that can be upgraded like mine) with the HDMI ports and let your W4S and LF do its thing, I don't think you will hear much difference, however you may want to get a set of HE6's or at the least the new LCD2's.
  I am now finally back in the tube rolling fun after a year+ not rolling any tubes because imo I reached the holly grail of tubes for my WA5LE. I have a Quad matched NOS set of Siemens gold pin [size=10pt]West German[/size] 6922 on there way for my LF.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As long as you get the latest Smyth (or get one that can be upgraded like mine) with the HDMI ports and let your W4S and LF do its thing, I don't think you will hear much difference, however you may want to get a set of HE6's or at the least the new LCD2's.
> I am now finally back in the tube rolling fun after a year+ not rolling any tubes because imo I reached the holly grail of tubes for my WA5LE. I have a Quad matched NOS set of Siemens gold pin [size=10pt]West German[/size] 6922 on there way for my LF.


 


  Do you think by month-end you'll sit down for evaluations with the WA5LE & LF?


----------



## Icenine2

SS,
   
  I have the Smyth at the very top of the list w/a set of new phones!
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As long as you get the latest Smyth (or get one that can be upgraded like mine) with the HDMI ports and let your W4S and LF do its thing, I don't think you will hear much difference, however you may want to get a set of HE6's or at the least the new LCD2's.
> I am now finally back in the tube rolling fun after a year+ not rolling any tubes because imo I reached the holly grail of tubes for my WA5LE. I have a Quad matched NOS set of Siemens gold pin [size=10pt]West German[/size] 6922 on there way for my LF.


----------



## Icenine2

It will be indeed interesting to read Silly Sally's impressions of the LF vs. the WA5LE.  With the LF vs the WA22 there was no comparison.  The LF has much more speed and detail as well as a much better defined bass and power to burn.


----------



## sachu

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As long as you get the latest Smyth (or get one that can be upgraded like mine) with the HDMI ports and let your W4S and LF do its thing, I don't think you will hear much difference, however you may want to get a set of HE6's or at the least the new LCD2's.
> I am now finally back in the tube rolling fun after a year+ not rolling any tubes because imo I reached the holly grail of tubes for my WA5LE. I have a Quad matched NOS set of Siemens gold pin [size=10pt]West German[/size] 6922 on there way for my LF.


 
   
   
  Hadn't realized you were still running the stock JJs..there will be a difference in the sound..whether you like it of not will be interesting to see


----------



## bobeau

Just stopping in with quick impression on WA6SE vs. WA6SE maxxed, both using Sylvania 6ew7 and solid EML 274b:
   
  - Maxxed has more bass energy.  Fairly significant
   
  - Maxxed seems to have less treble energy, or at least smoothed out here.  Not sure if I would call it recessed or not, could be
   
  - Maxxed has more of a deep soundstage... I seem to hear things 'far off in the distance'.  
   
  - Maxxed seems to have a bit more seductive midrange overall going off how voices and guitars sound
   
  - Maxxed has decreased dynamic range?  Not sure, but this is interesting as I usually play with the volume on my amps throughout the day.  I know this is probably a bad thing, but there is something nice about not fiddling with my volume much.  Had an Anedio D1 and would be constantly adjusting the volume on that thing even from song to song.   This might be due to the presence in the lower region which gives the impression of a more consistent volume.
   
  The EML really kicks things up, to the point where I'm not sure which I would pick... the stock SE w/ EML vs. Sonett w/ metal GZ34.  The Sonett has an incredibly seductive and detailed treble and tight bass, but doesn't do midrange quite like the woos.
   
  The maxxed put things a bit over though and already I think it will be the one for the long haul.  The basic thing is it moves things closer to a speaker-like presentation.  Didn't think my Edition 8s were possible of this.  
   
  That's about as much detail as I can muster right now.  This amp hasn't been used in a year or so and as outfitted with blackgates it will certainly take some time to break-in again.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just stopping in with quick impression on WA6SE vs. WA6SE maxxed, both using Sylvania 6ew7 and solid EML 274b:
> 
> - Maxxed has more bass energy.  Fairly significant
> 
> ...


 

 To address your last point first, you're absolutely right about needing time for run-in. Your stopping by tonight is important 'cause some members will give impressions based on aural memory post upgrade or sale. But you've got the two versions side-by-side... outstanding!


----------



## jerico

​I just swapped out the Treasures in my 22 and went back to the Ken Rad VT231 (along with Syl 7236 and EML 5U4G). I find those Treasures to be kind of dry sounding, and a little uninvolving. The VT231 are a tad bit warmer overall but have a more lively vibe.

Also ordered a Moon Silver Dragon for the LCD2, and my Wavelength Brick is due tomorrow. Yeehaw!

I also spent some time looping some sweep files from www.burninwav.com, just to kick things up a notch.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just stopping in with quick impression on WA6SE vs. WA6SE maxxed, both using Sylvania 6ew7 and solid EML 274b:
> 
> - Maxxed has more bass energy.  Fairly significant
> 
> ...


 

 Does Woo still sell a maxed out version?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Do you think by month-end you'll sit down for evaluations with the WA5LE & LF?


 

 I sure hope so, I have had a low grade summer cold that comes and goes. Not good for comparing this type of high end equipment.
   
  I can say one thing for sure about the compassion it's not going to be easy, the WA5LE max is a state of the art old school amp and the LF is a state of the art cutting edge new school amp. For pure clarity the LF wins, for large sound stage the WA5LE wins.
   


  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> SS,
> 
> I have the Smyth at the very top of the list w/a set of new phones!


 

 Don't forget about getting a reference grade PRIR with your Smyth, I flow from Chicago to LA and back home in less than 24 hours, rented AIX's sound studio for 5.1/7.1 reference sound system's and also there THX certified theatrical 5.1 sound system to make my PRIR's from. Don't really need a 2.0 as long as the L/R speakers are at a 30  degree angel, you can set the virtual speakers with the Smyth using the above PRIR's by shutting off the rest of the virtual speakers.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





sachu said:


> Hadn't realized you were still running the stock JJs..there will be a difference in the sound..whether you like it of not will be interesting to see


 
  I wanted to make sure the LF was a keeper before I went for the high end 6922's, my Quad set will be here via snail mail this Friday.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I sure hope so, I have had a low grade summer cold that comes and goes. Not good for comparing this type of high end equipment.
> 
> I can say one thing for sure about the compassion it's not going to be easy, the WA5LE max is a state of the art old school amp and the LF is a state of the art cutting edge new school amp. For pure clarity the LF wins, for large sound stage the WA5LE wins.
> 
> ...


 

 That's a great description of the amps, well put! Your comparisons will not be easy but could prove satisfying if your cold stays away.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi! It is 7:47 a.m. Just thought I'd check in. This afternoon I'm getting together face to face for the first time with a fellow Head-Fi'er at a local cafe. I am all Wooless so we'll be reviewing beers and not Woos! http://www.cafe-belgique.nl/html/About%20Belgique.html There's nothing like live music when you're without your favorite headphones and hp amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi! It is 7:47 a.m. Just thought I'd check in. This afternoon I'm getting together face to face for the first time with a fellow Head-Fi'er at a local cafe. I am all Wooless so we'll be reviewing beers and not Woos! http://www.cafe-belgique.nl/html/About%20Belgique.html There's nothing like live music when you're without your favorite headphones and hp amp.


 

  
  Clayton SF, my man! Great to hear from you!!! I enjoy being cafe side - I'm responsible for a lot of letters written, books read, conversations had and music enjoyed in this type of environment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Give our fellow Woo mate a 'shout'... and a drink!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> It will be indeed interesting to read Silly Sally's impressions of the LF vs. the WA5LE.  With the LF vs the WA22 there was no comparison.  The LF has much more speed and detail as well as a much better defined bass and power to burn.


 

 I am going to receive a demo LF from AphroditeCu29.com shortly so I can make a comparison with my WA5-LE and my RP010B.


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> Nurse: _"The Doctor will see you now, Silent One..."_
> 
> 
> Last night, I had the pleasure of taking my Raytheon 6SN7 tubes to fellow Woo mate Shipsupt's place (the aforementioned doctor) and get my tubes thoroughly checked-out. Despite being in the middle of a busy work week, he not only made time for me, he turned out to be a terrific host as well. Thanks kindly, shipsupt, I am grateful. It was a delight learning more about his style with music and gear. My Raytheon's receiving a clean bill of health was merely icing on the cake!




The pleasure was all mine. It's great to get together with some folks who share the passion for this hobby. Our woo time was limited as my 6SE is still with another HF'er... We'll see if he is seduced into the Woo world after his extended audition!

We are still kicking around the idea of a Bay Area Woo mini meet since there is such a strong population in this area... Maybe there is still time for it before the February area meet? Of course, even if there wasn't, Clayton can cover most of the Woo clan on his own 

In the mean time Silentone left me with ideas for a few projects to improve my listening, fortunately most that will only take time and effort vs. $$!


----------



## shipsupt

The LD I+ is a great capable little amp and a super way to get introduced to tubes.  If you're not ready to jump into a Woo it's a good place to start.  That said, it's not a great match for the HD650, much better with low impedance headphones.  I can't offer any direct experience with the VII+.
   
  That said, while I still enjoy my LD it certainly takes a second chair to my WA6SE. And this holds true for the WA6 from more limited listening.
   
  Not exactly what you asked for, but what it's what I can offer from direct experience.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Kinda in a dilema Been reading ...then some  ...and then some more .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> You're not going to find many recommendations for a Little Dot tube amp in _this_ thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To address your last point first, you're absolutely right about needing time for run-in. Your stopping by tonight is important 'cause some members will give impressions based on aural memory post upgrade or sale. But you've got the two versions side-by-side... outstanding!


 

 Yeah, it's def nice to be able to isolate this variable.  Still, the regular WA6SE will be long gone by the time the blackgates settle, so I don't know if this terribly useful.  I definitely do believe in break-in and have experienced it with all sorts of gear, but there is likely a psychological component going on that makes things seem more extreme than they are.  Nothing like having a control to keep you (more) honest.
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Does Woo still sell a maxed out version?


 

 No, he stopped awhile ago.  This maxxed version is over 2 years old, looks like the stock is from late last year.  Think there's some explanation in this thread where his belief is the mods don't add enough value for their cost.  Although the mods packages are still available for the WA5/LE.  Think it's mostly the cost of blackgates has risen/are in short supply and he saves them for his top of the line gear.


----------



## bobeau

Anyone have any tips for touching up the paint on a black woo?  Not sure if I want to use straight black touch up paint as it might be a couple shades too dark.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> The pleasure was all mine. It's great to get together with some folks who share the passion for this hobby. Our woo time was limited as my 6SE is still with another HF'er... We'll see if he is seduced into the Woo world after his extended audition!
> 
> We are still kicking around the idea of a Bay Area Woo mini meet since there is such a strong population in this area... Maybe there is still time for it before the February area meet? Of course, even if there wasn't, Clayton can cover most of the Woo clan on his own
> 
> ...


 

 Yes. Count me in. Where can I rent a flat bed truck for the weekend? We'll discuss this when I return from The Netherlands. I just got back from having had a few beers with Deep Funk. The rain has stopped. The clouds have parted. Summer has once again returned to Amsterdam. Now I must rest for a few hours before I head on over to the Hard Rock Cafe for a burger.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi! It is 7:47 a.m. Just thought I'd check in. This afternoon I'm getting together face to face for the first time with a fellow Head-Fi'er at a local cafe. I am all Wooless so we'll be reviewing beers and not Woos! http://www.cafe-belgique.nl/html/About%20Belgique.html There's nothing like live music when you're without your favorite headphones and hp amp.


 

 Hey Clayton, great to hear from you and glad to hear you landed and are connecting with friends.


----------



## Arcamera

WooHoo! My WA3 is up and running! It's not even been a half-hour yet, but already it's pretty sweet. Letting it warm up/start some burn-in now. It will make an interesting contrast, sitting next to my Burson HA-160.
   
  But question: this has probably been asked by many a Woobie, but I hear a low-level high-pitched hum when the music is not running. Does that fade with burn-in? Or is it just a part of the lack of noise cancellation of this model? Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> The pleasure was all mine. It's great to get together with some folks who share the passion for this hobby. Our woo time was limited as my 6SE is still with another HF'er... We'll see if he is seduced into the Woo world after his extended audition!
> 
> We are still kicking around the idea of a Bay Area Woo mini meet since there is such a strong population in this area... Maybe there is still time for it before the February area meet? Of course, even if there wasn't, Clayton can cover most of the Woo clan on his own
> 
> ...


 


  I watched shipsupt operate the Jackson Tube Tester with great fascination! Watching him work his wonder reminded me of either an engineer with a medical degree. Or a doctor with an engineering degree. Let's go with scientist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At any rate, he looked good doing it! _And now I want one...  _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





arcamera said:


> WooHoo! My WA3 is up and running! It's not even been a half-hour yet, but already it's pretty sweet. Letting it warm up/start some burn-in now. It will make an interesting contrast, sitting next to my Burson HA-160.
> 
> But question: this has probably been asked by many a Woobie, but I hear a low-level high-pitched hum when the music is not running. Does that fade with burn-in? Or is it just a part of the lack of noise cancellation of this model? Thanks.


 


  Check for interference - wireless router close by; proximity of your 'mobile' while listening to your amp (waiting for that hot phone call may have it too close to the amp); lamp fixtures; for testing try moving the amp to another temporary location about the room.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am going to receive a demo LF from AphroditeCu29.com shortly so I can make a comparison with my WA5-LE and my RP010B.


 






 _  Standing just outside your window, looking in with envy..._


----------



## Icenine2

So I wonder how I'd get to rent Abbey Road for the Smyth?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I sure hope so, I have had a low grade summer cold that comes and goes. Not good for comparing this type of high end equipment.
> 
> I can say one thing for sure about the compassion it's not going to be easy, the WA5LE max is a state of the art old school amp and the LF is a state of the art cutting edge new school amp. For pure clarity the LF wins, for large sound stage the WA5LE wins.
> 
> ...


----------



## Arcamera

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Check for interference - wireless router close by; proximity of your 'mobile' while listening to your amp (waiting for that hot phone call may have it too close to the amp); lamp fixtures; for testing try moving the amp to another temporary location about the room.


 


 Thanks. It's not much of a bother. But I will experiment when I get some time.


----------



## Leon83

Hm... tube upgrade for the WA6 or not. I have the standard tubes that came with it. Thinking about the Sophia Princess + 7N7 drive tubes from the Woo site.
  Which drive tubes would be the best for Denon D5000? 7N7 or 6SN7GT?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> So I wonder how I'd get to rent Abbey Road for the Smyth?


 

 Here's the thing you can get a general idea how the Smyth sounds, but without a PRIR made by your head and ears what you will hear is not going to be right.
   
  Got my gold pin's 6922 Quad set today, now I think these high end tubes will put the LF on a par with the high end tubes I have in my mighty WA5LE for comparison.


----------



## Icenine2

Which tubes did you get?  I don't remember which ones?


----------



## sillysally

WA5LE, Matched NOS pair of WE300B's (56/26), matched nos pair TSRP oval plate 6SN7GT (08/42), EML 5U4G mesh plate's.
  LF, Quad matched NOS set of Siemens gold pin [size=10pt]West German[/size] 6922 (72).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> WA5LE, Matched NOS pair of WE300B's (56/26), matched nos pair TSRP oval plate 6SN7GT (08/42), EML 5U4G mesh plate's.
> LF, Quad matched NOS set of Siemens gold pin [size=10pt]West German[/size] 6922 (72).


 


  Quick question...have you tallied the cost of those tubes?


----------



## BrucYSN

What tubes do you guys use with T1 on WA22? I currently only have TS5998 and RCA 6AS7G with me, I assume it needs more gain? I'm going to run it on balanced so I wonder if that helps.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> The LD I+ is a great capable little amp and a super way to get introduced to tubes.  If you're not ready to jump into a Woo it's a good place to start.  That said, it's not a great match for the HD650, much better with low impedance headphones.  I can't offer any direct experience with the VII+.
> 
> That said, while I still enjoy my LD it certainly takes a second chair to my WA6SE. And this holds true for the WA6 from more limited listening.
> 
> Not exactly what you asked for, but what it's what I can offer from direct experience.


 

 Thanks for quoting me; I just realized that I had made a bit of an error, original post corrected:
   
  You're not going to find many recommendations for a Little Dot tube amp in _this_ thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: just realized that the VII+ is a sold-state amp, my bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Anyone have any tips for touching up the paint on a black woo?  Not sure if I want to use straight black touch up paint as it might be a couple shades too dark.


 

 Try a fine point black Sharpie, it won't stand out as much and you can still paint over it. You may want to periodically touch up the touch-up though.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. Count me in. Where can I rent a flat bed truck for the weekend? We'll discuss this when I return from The Netherlands. I just got back from having had a few beers with Deep Funk. The rain has stopped. The clouds have parted. Summer has once again returned to Amsterdam. Now I must rest for a few hours before I head on over to the Hard Rock Cafe for a burger.


 
  Hoist a pint for me, I want to go back sometime
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quick question...have you tallied the cost of those tubes?


 
   
  If you have to ask you don't really want to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> What tubes do you guys use with T1 on WA22? I currently only have TS5998 and RCA 6AS7G with me, I assume it needs more gain? I'm going to run it on balanced so I wonder if that helps.


 

 The 5998 is the higher gain power tube, along with the 7236.


----------



## Icenine2

When I had my WA22+T-1 I used the EML 5U4G+Shuguang Treasues, stock power.
  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> What tubes do you guys use with T1 on WA22? I currently only have TS5998 and RCA 6AS7G with me, I assume it needs more gain? I'm going to run it on balanced so I wonder if that helps.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Hey guys, quick question for you...What tubes do you prefer on the WA6-SE? I was planning on getting the Sophia 274B but I also know that the Mullard GZ34 is popular with folks. As for power/drive, I'm stuck between the 6FD7s and 6EM7s. Can anyone shed any light on this? Any descriptions of sound differences in your experience?
   
  Thanks all!


----------



## bobeau

Quote:


grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hey guys, quick question for you...What tubes do you prefer on the WA6-SE? I was planning on getting the Sophia 274B but I also know that the Mullard GZ34 is popular with folks. As for power/drive, I'm stuck between the 6FD7s and 6EM7s. Can anyone shed any light on this? Any descriptions of sound differences in your experience?
> 
> Thanks all!


 

 I've had a metal base GZ34 (the best gz34), a Sophia 274b, and EML 274 solid plate in both 6SEs at my current disposal..=
   
  I'd say the GZ34 and EML are at logical extremes... the GZ34 is incredibly tight, punchy, bright, and intimate/closed in.  Using it with say a 6de7 is pretty crazy.  The EML has huge soundstage and imaging, much warmer and looser, but even complementing it w/ a 6ew7 it still doesn't 'thud out' down low.  It still rocks well.  They would be a personal preference and perhaps synergy w/ cans and source.  The GZ34 is just too much for me in the Woo (a regular mullard will be more relaxed), although I love it in the Sonett.  The Sophia splits the difference but is closer to the EML.  I do like this tube, but sway to the EML because overall it brings me closest to a speaker-like presentation.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Quote:
> 
> I've had a metal base GZ34 (the best gz34), a Sophia 274b, and EML 274 solid plate in both 6SEs at my current disposal..=
> 
> I'd say the GZ34 and EML are at logical extremes... the GZ34 is incredibly tight, punchy, bright, and intimate/closed in.  Using it with say a 6de7 is pretty crazy.  The EML has huge soundstage and imaging, much warmer and looser, but even complementing it w/ a 6ew7 it still doesn't 'thud out' down low.  It still rocks well.  They would be a personal preference and perhaps synergy w/ cans and source.  The GZ34 is just too much for me in the Woo (a regular mullard will be more relaxed), although I love it in the Sonett.  The Sophia splits the difference but is closer to the EML.  I do like this tube, but sway to the EML because overall it brings me closest to a speaker-like presentation.


 
  From what I can see the EMLs run about $250 or so...is there another distributor that shaves off some of the price? As for the 6EM7s and 6FD7s, how do they compare to something liek the 6DE7?
   
  Thanks


----------



## FlyingBear

No bribery required. I travel w-a-y too much, but am around in the Bay Area in late September for a couple of weeks and would be happy to get together.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> (Hmmm, let's see... Bears & Honey)
> 
> I too, would like to get a listen to a WES at some point like... this Fall! I wonder if I could bribe FlyingBear with something good so that I (perhaps, shipsupt and a few others Bay side)  could have a listen.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quick question...have you tallied the cost of those tubes?


 

 Of-course I have, but even more important I have thoroughly checked out the seller of the WE300B's and to a lessor degree the seller of the TSRP's and the 6922's.
  Anyway tubes like the WE300B's in there mint matched (date codes also) NOS condition are very rare and will only increase in price, also to a lessor degree the TSRP's.
  imo the WA5LE the way it was made when I got it with the parts upgrades and customizing of the amp for the ALPS RK50 pot are no longer offered by Jack, and from what Jack was telling me at the time it is very costly to make the WA5LE both in labor and parts.
  I am not a believer in having somebody other that the amp builder do the customizing.
   
  And it is for those reasons why I have been looking for an amp that is close +/- so I could keep the WA5LE on the side lines.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> From what I can see the EMLs run about $250 or so...is there another distributor that shaves off some of the price? As for the 6EM7s and 6FD7s, how do they compare to something liek the 6DE7?
> 
> Thanks


 

 I wish there were, but apparently only two suppliers in the US and they both charge about $15-20 to ship off the base $230 cost.  If it helps I'd say the improvement in sound this tube gains is similar to what I'm seeing from the upgrade package on my amp, which would have run about $600-700 or so... it's pricey for a tube, but the improvement is significant.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Try a fine point black Sharpie, it won't stand out as much and you can still paint over it. You may want to periodically touch up the touch-up though.


 
   
  Nice... will do.  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> No bribery required. I travel w-a-y too much, but am around in the Bay Area in late September for a couple of weeks and would be happy to get together.


 


  This is great news! And a great day to be Bay side...


----------



## ardilla

WA2 and HE-500 experiences anyone?
   
  ....( comparisons to T1 and HD650 exeptionally welcome


----------



## mikemalter

> Quote:


 


flyingbear said:


> No bribery required. I travel w-a-y too much, but am around in the Bay Area in late September for a couple of weeks and would be happy to get together.


 

 I'm in Hawaii until from middle to end of September.  If we could do something from week of Oct onwards, I can be there too.


----------



## Clayton SF

For you TT / Woo people: I am in Leiden and Rene has taken me to a vinyl store. $3.60 for any record. $2.80 if you buy 20 or more. If a record has 5 records in its set (like classical) it counts as one record. Here are some pictures of the place. Sorry for iPod touch quality. Oh, and Silent One: I ran into one of your faves and immediately thought of you--Nancy! And had to take a picture of her section. 95% of the LPs are in excellent condition and all are washed before they are put out for sale.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> For you TT / Woo people: I am in Leiden and Rene has taken me to a vinyl store. $3.60 for any record. $2.80 if you buy 20 or more. If a record has 5 records in its set (like classical) it counts as one record. Here are some pictures of the place. Sorry for iPod touch quality. Oh, and Silent One: I ran into one of your faves and immediately thought of you--Nancy! And had to take a picture of her section. 95% of the LPs are in excellent condition and all are washed before they are put out for sale.


 

  
  After a quick glimpse of Nancy, Dinah, Grover... I placed my hand quickly on my iPhone (reflex) and it hit me, you're overseas! But I would have called to thank you in S.F.! Mobile pix aside, it's great sharing in your joy of the moment. Sort reminds me of the former Leopold's Records, Berkeley...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Between you, grokit and mikemalter, despite my grumblings over maintenance expenses (and kicking & screaming!), y'all are slowly pulling me back over to the vinyl side of the hobby.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hey guys, quick question for you...What tubes do you prefer on the WA6-SE? I was planning on getting the Sophia 274B but I also know that the Mullard GZ34 is popular with folks. As for power/drive, I'm stuck between the 6FD7s and 6EM7s. Can anyone shed any light on this? Any descriptions of sound differences in your experience?
> 
> Thanks all!


 

 Both the 5U4G and 5R4GY split the difference between those two pretty well.  They can be bought on the cheap too.  With the 6EM7 being newly supported by Jack there are no impressions of how they do in the WA6SE as of yet unfortunately.  It should sound more refined and more resolving than the 6FD7 I would think, but not necessarily a better match for your other gear or expectations.


----------



## shipsupt

Wow, that sure beats the selection I found at Goodwill this morning! I am definitely hooked on this vinyl thing. Waiting for my VPI 16.5 to arrive to clean some of these old treasures!



clayton sf said:


> For you TT / Woo people: I am in Leiden and Rene has taken me to a vinyl store. $3.60 for any record. $2.80 if you buy 20 or more. If a record has 5 records in its set (like classical) it counts as one record. Here are some pictures of the place. Sorry for iPod touch quality. Oh, and Silent One: I ran into one of your faves and immediately thought of you--Nancy! And had to take a picture of her section. 95% of the LPs are in excellent condition and all are washed before they are put out for sale.





I think an October date might be ideal. Summer will be behind us, but the major holidays won't be hitting. And it will hold us over until the big February meet. The downside is that it would be the same month as CanJam/RMAF.... Maybe I'll throw some dates up in meets forums to see if we can't reach some agreement, unless someone else was keen to organize (and assuming we shouldn't clutter this thread with those details?)?



mikemalter said:


> I'm in Hawaii until from middle to end of September.  If we could do something from week of Oct onwards, I can be there too.


----------



## Clayton SF

I came across 3 pristine copies of Tommy by the Who, quite a few of Supertramp and Yes. An incredible collection of jazz artists. I am wondering if the Europeans aren't embracing the vinyl resurgence as we Americans are. Just a thought because they stock a lot of copies of artists' signature LPs that you would never find at an American used record store--and for under $4 too. (Alas, no Beatles though.) Oh, and as you can tell by the photos, there was almost nary a person there.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> For you TT / Woo people: I am in Leiden and Rene has taken me to a vinyl store. $3.60 for any record. $2.80 if you buy 20 or more. If a record has 5 records in its set (like classical) it counts as one record. Here are some pictures of the place. Sorry for iPod touch quality. Oh, and Silent One: I ran into one of your faves and immediately thought of you--Nancy! And had to take a picture of her section. 95% of the LPs are in excellent condition and all are washed before they are put out for sale.


 

 OMG!


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'll bet there are people who go into that store and never leave.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I came across 3 pristine copies of Tommy by the Who, quite a few of Supertramp and Yes. An incredible collection of jazz artists. I am wondering if the Europeans aren't embracing the vinyl resurgence as we Americans are. Just a thought because they stock a lot of copies of artists' signature LPs that you would never find at an American used record store--and for under $4 too. (Alas, no Beatles though.) Oh, and as you can tell by the photos, there was almost nary a person there.


 

 Not only do you have the selection over there and the store to yourself, but the albums that have actually been pressed in Europe are likely to be better in fidelity, mainly because of the higher-quality vinyl used over there with rock and pop of that era. In the US there was a lot of recycled vinyl used of questionable purity, compared to the virgin stuff used in European and Japanese plants. The US saved the good stuff for classical, the '70s to early '80s were the worst era in that respect which is a real shame because there was some great rock music back then. I'm not surprised that the Beatles are missing, those get snapped up by speculators that probably don't even have an interest in listening to them.
   
  I actually have an old copy of that Who album, as well as the LP of the original movie soundtrack that featured Tina Turner, Elton John, and Eric Clapton. What about the Rolling Stones, any good ones? And what is the _name_ of that store?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Not only do you have the selection over there and the store to yourself, but the albums that have actually been pressed in Europe are likely to be better in fidelity, mainly because of the higher-quality vinyl used over there with rock and pop of that era. In the US there was a lot of recycled vinyl used of questionable purity, compared to the virgin stuff used in European and Japanese plants. The US saved the good stuff for classical, the '70s to early '80s were the worst era in that respect which is a real shame because there was some great rock music back then. I'm not surprised that the Beatles are missing, those get snapped up by speculators that probably don't even have an interest in listening to them.
> 
> I actually have an old copy of that Who album, as well as the LP of the original movie soundtrack that featured Tina Turner, Elton John, and Eric Clapton. What about the Rolling Stones, any good ones? And what is the _name_ of that store?


 

 Overseas record pressings ~
   
  Not surprising since the U.S. experienced The Great Vinyl Shortage brought on by the Opec Oil Embargo of 1973. Vinyl records were being pressed with the same regard as Hot dogs, Spam and other interesting meats were being pressed and consumed.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  _"We need it... throw it in there!"_
   
   
  (It was not my intent to offend anyone)


----------



## Clayton SF

Here it is:





 http://www.velvetvinyloutlet.nl/velvet_NL/Home.html
   
  And you have to have a plan, according to my friend, Rene. If you go and start to look from the As to the Zs you'll never get out of there. Make a list (he has a list of his top 100 LPs he has to get) and he goes there on the weekends and then picks up 20 at a time, no more or you'll never get out of there. I picked up 6 LPs and it took me 2 hours to actually make up my mind--I had no list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Some of them had price tags that listed them at 3 to 16 euro. They were given to this store by other secondhand stores that couldn't sell them. As I said, they go for 2.50 euro each-you'll see the prices at the site.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Both the 5U4G and 5R4GY split the difference between those two pretty well.  They can be bought on the cheap too.  With the 6EM7 being newly supported by Jack there are no impressions of how they do in the WA6SE as of yet unfortunately.  It should sound more refined and more resolving than the 6FD7 I would think, but not necessarily a better match for your other gear or expectations.


 
  Thanks for the suggestions! With my cans being the Big 3, my goal is to shave off some of the top end and give them some warmer, tubey sound. In essence, as long as the different cans' characters can flourish without being overly bright up top (like the k701s and DT880s to an extent like to be), I'm a happy guy. From what I understand, the 6FD7 is a bassier tube, correct?


----------



## grokit

Bookmarked, thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'll bet there are people who go into that store and never leave.


 


  I'd be worried that's what would happen to me!


----------



## bobeau

Anyone play around with sorbothane feet?  It's supposed to be a magical dampener... basically I have a Metrum Octave DAC (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/metrum/1.html) on the way which is a two box solution like the WA6SE.  I want to rest each section of the Woo over each section of the Metrum, but the Woo is 1.5" wider for each block and the feet are just a bit too far apart for comfort, thought I could knock out two birds w/ one stone so-to-speak by applying these pads closer on the underside, perhaps net a small sonic improvement.
   
  Got a pack of 8 which appears to be the right density/size for the Woo for less than $18!
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00516DGIG


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'd be worried that's what would happen to me!


 

 I would just camp over there.


----------



## Icenine2

Don't try and shave off some of the price with the EML.  Go w/TubesUSA http://www.tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html  My EML fried 5 months after I bought it and George replaced it no questions and shipped the new one out.  Saving $20 on shipping+small lower cost won't be worth it in the long run.
  
  Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> From what I can see the EMLs run about $250 or so...is there another distributor that shaves off some of the price? As for the 6EM7s and 6FD7s, how do they compare to something liek the 6DE7?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Don't try and shave off some of the price with the EML.  Go w/TubesUSA http://www.tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html  My EML fried 5 months after I bought it and George replaced it no questions and shipped the new one out.  Saving $20 on shipping+small lower cost won't be worth it in the long run.


 

 Not to discount good customer service, but don't these things have a year warranty? 
   
  EDIT:  Nevermind, looked at EML's policy.  They charge 10% of cost after 3 mos usage.
   
  FWIW, George is the cheapest for because I'm in CA as is the other main US EML supplier, hence sales tax.  I may get a 5u4g one day but am digging the solid plate 274b.


----------



## Clayton SF

I just don't understand why EML tubes can't be under warranty for 1 year.. I mean 10% charge after 90 days? That's highway robbery. That means when you buy an EML tube you must put it to use immediately. I'd do it 24/7 for that matter.


----------



## bobeau

From their site: http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/guarantee/conditions.htm
   
   
When we replace used defective tubes by factory new tubes, this is an advantage for the user. For this we must charge something.When shipping tubes, the sender each pays his own shipment cost.




 We replace free of charges within the first three months
  We charge 10% of the actual list price after three months

  We charge 15% of the actual list price after six months

  We charge 25% of the actual list price after nine months


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'd be worried that's what would happen to me!


 


  That store reminds me of the TOWER Records store in NYC on the corner of Broadway and E.4th st.  If I remember correctly it was 3 stories of Vinyl before CD's.  I used to got there in the early 80's every few weeks.   Never imagined then that a time would come when a place with that much vinyl would be a shrine.  Very big place. Lots of sales people who had arcane knowledge about every pressing in whatever genre they specialized.  More so in the classical section where the guys in there could tell you every detail about a pressing.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That store reminds me of the TOWER Records store in NYC on the corner of Broadway and E.4th st.  If I remember correctly it was 3 stories of Vinyl before CD's.  I used to got there in the early 80's every few weeks.   Never imagined then that a time would come when a place with that much vinyl would be a shrine.  Very big place. Lots of sales people who had arcane knowledge about every pressing in whatever genre they specialized.  More so in the classical section where the guys in there could tell you every detail about a pressing.


 

 It's gone now along with their other flagship, the West Hollywood store on Sunset. I think the Broadway store shut down in the late '90s, but I did shop there a few times in '95. Tower filed for bankruptcy in 2006, but they still sell vinyl online. End of an era!
   
Amoeba Records is still going strong, that's a fun place to shop if you ever get to California.

  
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Anyone play around with sorbothane feet?  It's supposed to be a magical dampener... basically I have a Metrum Octave DAC (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/metrum/1.html) on the way which is a two box solution like the WA6SE.  I want to rest each section of the Woo over each section of the Metrum, but the Woo is 1.5" wider for each block and the feet are just a bit too far apart for comfort, thought I could knock out two birds w/ one stone so-to-speak by applying these pads closer on the underside, perhaps net a small sonic improvement.
> 
> Got a pack of 8 which appears to be the right density/size for the Woo for less than $18!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00516DGIG


 

 I used the flat round disk type of those on a turntable once, thought it was pretty cool although I ended up needing active suspension or even better would be a a wall mount for that application. It should work well for tubes though.

  
  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> I would just camp over there.


 

 X2, I am definitely going to hit that place if I ever get back to Amsterdam.
   
   
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Don't try and shave off some of the price with the EML.  Go w/TubesUSA http://www.tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html  My EML fried 5 months after I bought it and George replaced it no questions and shipped the new one out.  Saving $20 on shipping+small lower cost won't be worth it in the long run.


 

 X2, I initially was put off by EML's shipping charge to my location, close to $40 through the US Mail. But when I needed a warranty replacement, I got one without any shipping or usage charge, I think it may have been over 6 months later so I highly recommend them. I now am waiting for an EML 274B that I traded that replacement 5U4G for, it should be here this week.


----------



## Icenine2

They charged me nothing for my replacement and mine was I believe 6 months in at that point.  Remember this too.  You could buy some fab tube from eBay that's NOS and it could fry a month later and you'd be out everything.
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just don't understand why EML tubes can't be under warranty for 1 year.. I mean 10% charge after 90 days? That's highway robbery. That means when you buy an EML tube you must put it to use immediately. I'd do it 24/7 for that matter.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> They charged me nothing for my replacement and mine was I believe 6 months in at that point.  Remember this too.  You could buy some fab tube from eBay that's NOS and it could fry a month later and you'd be out everything.


 
  Good point. And I have spent way too much on NOS.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It's gone now along with their other flagship, the West Hollywood store on Sunset. I think the Broadway store shut down in the late '90s, but I did shop there a few times in '95. Tower filed for bankruptcy in 2006, but they still sell vinyl online. End of an era!
> 
> Amoeba Records is still going strong, that's a fun place to shop if you ever get to California.
> 
> ...


 


  Tower Records - Sunset Blvd.
   
  I could always be found at that location; many a Friday night detour before or after other destinations... miss it! And although the Virgin Mega store came later and chock full of discs, I really miss that joint too! There's something unique about browsing for vinyl than compact discs. It's akin to the emotional differences one feels when typing versus writing by hand. Many record stores initially stocked both mediums, then slowly moving vinyl to the rear-back-side of stores. Then came the old fashion clearance bins... and then poof!





   
  But browsing these same familiar record stores after becoming 100% CD was just different. It didn't matter if you wanted to shop in complete solitude, engage someone in conversation, allow others to engage you in conversation, even the same familiar crowds at the same store under full CD stock was never quite the same. Often when I hear people talk about the magic of vinyl, the store browsing experience comes to mind quickly!
   
   
   
  George - TubesUSA.
   
  x3! Though I've yet to have a problem with my EML Glass, I had the luxury of living through other Woo Audio amp owners and their tube experiences inside this thread. Not just prior to buying my own Rec but much much sooner and followed blown or broken glass issues case by case. I even began to write and talk to George over the phone about my concerns before kissing a few dead prez on their heads good-bye!
   
  Much to my surprise, for the last 18 months I have observed him standing behind his policy, doing what he says he'll do but often times he went above and beyond stated policy. He'd go the extra mile, so to speak. That's when I put all concerns aside and brought the EML Glass home. He's a great person to do business with! And I have my fellow Woo mates to thank for sharing their experiences here in a _positive manner_. Rather than post just to vent and/or bury the vendor without giving him/her an opportunity to succeed. So, cheers to your posts and follow-ups!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Don't try and shave off some of the price with the EML.  Go w/TubesUSA http://www.tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html  My EML fried 5 months after I bought it and George replaced it no questions and shipped the new one out.  Saving $20 on shipping+small lower cost won't be worth it in the long run.


 
  Yes George is a good guy to buy from. That is where I got my  EML 274B solid plate from, he had two of these tubes left one I got the other he is using in his amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just don't understand why EML tubes can't be under warranty for 1 year.. I mean 10% charge after 90 days? That's highway robbery. That means when you buy an EML tube you must put it to use immediately. I'd do it 24/7 for that matter.


 

 Coincidentally, it was around this time last year where EML Glass was exploding inside listening rooms across America. So frequent, many just assumed they were hearing their neighbors watching DVD's. For whatever reason, the last couple of years the maker had issues with plant operations: tooling, design and construction and things like that. And had to completely shut down a few times. I could see the enormous costs to cover a troubled product in uncertain times for the maker...
   
  Since I still had 'Miss Sophia' in play, my original plan was to pamper the EML Glass, delighting a swap on occasion. Once I opened the box and read the limited warranty card, I tossed the Princess aside like a hand grenade - every second counted. So, EML it was!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'll bet there are people who go into that store and never leave.


 


  And there is something to be said for Cover Art, liner notes that's tangible not virtual.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just don't understand why EML tubes can't be under warranty for 1 year.. I mean 10% charge after 90 days? That's highway robbery. That means when you buy an EML tube you must put it to use immediately. I'd do it 24/7 for that matter.


 

 When you buy them from Jack Woo, he warranties them for a year.  I have blown two EML's; one a month in and another about 4 months in and he got them replaced at no additional charge.


----------



## LiqTenExp

Just a heads up, anyone looking to outfit their WA5 or other woo amp check out some tubes for sale.  I know you guys probably would be the most interested group.  Both are made by Emission Labs.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/568190/emission-labs-300bm-300b-mesh-pair-of-tubes
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/568189/emission-labs-5u4gm-5u4g-mesh-rectifier-tubes-quantity-2


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2, I am definitely going to hit that place if I ever get back to Amsterdam.


 
  To get to Leiden from Amsterdam is very straightforward. Trains leave Amsterdam CS for Leiden quite regularly from Platform 13A (check when you get there). I caught the one going to Den Haag (The Hague). For my train, Leiden was one stop past Schiphol (the airport). If you drink beer you've got to try La Chouffe (Belgium beer). Yummy! OT I know but.... what does one do after spending 2 hours on a vinyl hunt?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> To get to Leiden from Amsterdam is very straightforward. Trains leave Amsterdam CS for Leiden quite regularly from Platform 13A (check when you get there). I caught the one going to Den Haag (The Hague). For my train, Leiden was one stop past Schiphol (the airport). If you drink beer you've got to try La Chouffe (Belgium beer). Yummy! OT I know but.... what does one do after spending 2 hours on a vinyl hunt?


 

 Piece of cake, I have taken the train to Schiphol a few times, thanks for that as I missed the fact that it was in Leiden. Pretty sure I've tried the La Chouffe, but I'm not really big on beer anymore unless it fits with a certain meal like Mexican or BBQ, maybe a burger I wonder what kind of Dutch food goes best with beer?
   
  After the hunt...there's always the coffeehouses


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ...but I'm not really big on beer anymore unless it fits with a certain meal like Mexican or _*BBQ*_, maybe a burger. _*I wonder what kind of Dutch food goes best with beer?*_
> 
> After the hunt...there's always the coffeehouses


 

 Ah, that would be Dutch BBQ--Indonesian Food! http://www.sampurna.com/index.jsp?ACTION=GOHOME&MID=1
   
  Maybe we should all meet in Holland for am Amsterdam meet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, that would be Dutch BBQ--Indonesian Food! http://www.sampurna.com/index.jsp?ACTION=GOHOME&MID=1
> 
> Maybe we should all meet in Holland for am Amsterdam meet.


 

 Since I don't eat meat, I was saved by their seafood offerings which look enticing! And if that wasn't enough... _"If you need special diets or other requests, please let us know, we can cook your desire."  _Ok, I'm in - Woo Audio Owner Unite meeting in AMS - 2012!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In speaking with our fellow head-fier, are Woo Audio amps represented around Amsterdam?


----------



## grokit

^ Yum, I would tip a pint to that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> When you buy them from Jack Woo, he warranties them for a year.  I have blown two EML's; one a month in and another about 4 months in and he got them replaced at no additional charge.


 
  I purchased both of my EML Mesh 5U4G from Jack @ from Woo Audio. The original is 10 months old with no issues. The other is a spare. I also got my Shuguang Treasures and two pair of Sylvania 7236 from him. Good people to deal with!


----------



## BrucYSN

Guys, I know many of you have the Wyred4sound DAC-2 nad love it , that includes me, but recently I've got some funds freed up, I was thinking of upgrading my rig, and I would like to start with the source, So any of you experienced DAC-2 and other dacs would prefer em over DAC-2? I was having the PWD in mind given its current price, The audio gd-7 dac seemes nice too. 
   
  Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I was able to borrow a pair or Osram B65 to use in my WA22, and they sound AWESOME with the LCD-2.  Best I have heard the LCD-2 sound with the WA22.  Now I want a pair, which is really unfortunate, since they are so bloody expensive!


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> When you buy them from Jack Woo, he warranties them for a year.  I have blown two EML's; one a month in and another about 4 months in and he got them replaced at no additional charge.


 
  Where does it say Jack sells EML tubes on his site? All of his upgrade/separate purchase packages are specifically from other providers. Does he just have a ton of different tubes laying around that you can ask about and buy whenever?


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was able to borrow a pair or Osram B65 to use in my WA22, and they sound AWESOME with the LCD-2.  Best I have heard the LCD-2 sound with the WA22.  Now I want a pair, which is really unfortunate, since they are so bloody expensive!


 


  How's the WA22 against ur Leben? and is the tungsol 2399 same as 5988?


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was able to borrow a pair or Osram B65 to use in my WA22, and they sound AWESOME with the LCD-2.  Best I have heard the LCD-2 sound with the WA22.  Now I want a pair, which is really unfortunate, since they are so bloody expensive!


 


  $1500........ that's like a new mac book pro....


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Where does it say Jack sells EML tubes on his site? All of his upgrade/separate purchase packages are specifically from other providers. Does he just have a ton of different tubes laying around that you can ask about and buy whenever?


 

 Hello, I didn't ever see on Jack's site EML tubes on sale! Here in Europe there is an excellen German seller that offers a guarantee of 12 months (or 2,000 hours) so I think I will buy my EML 5U4G mesh plate from him to replace my Sophia Princess on my WA22. In your opinion EML is better than Sophia on WA22?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello, I didn't ever see on Jack's site EML tubes on sale! Here in Europe there is an excellen German seller that offers a guarantee of 12 months (or 2,000 hours) so I think I will buy my EML 5U4G mesh plate from him to replace my Sophia Princess on my WA22. In your opinion EML is better than Sophia on WA22?


 
   
  You have to email Jack directly on the EML tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> How's the WA22 against ur Leben? and is the tungsol 2399 same as 5988?


 

 I still prefer the Leben with the LCD-2, but it's clear you can tube-roll the WA22 to make it very good with the LCD-2.
   


  Quote: 





brucysn said:


> $1500........ that's like a new mac book pro....


 

 Yeah...probably not going there...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote:


lumaz said:


> Hello, I didn't ever see on Jack's site EML tubes on sale! Here in Europe there is an excellen German seller that offers a guarantee of 12 months (or 2,000 hours) so I think I will buy my EML 5U4G mesh plate from him to replace my Sophia Princess on my WA22. In your opinion EML is better than Sophia on WA22?


 

 Jac van de Walle is not just a retailer but also a developer/designer of EML tubes.
  He's first class to deal with and you can learn lots from him.


----------



## strannik

I have both EML 5U4G and a Sophia for my WA6. Both are excellent, I can't say that one is better than the other, they are just different. EML is more intimate, while Sophia keeps everything at an arm's length. It really comes down to which presentation you like more.
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *LUMAZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> In your opinion EML is better than Sophia on WA22?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





strannik said:


> I have both EML 5U4G and a Sophia for my WA6. Both are excellent, I can't say that one is better than the other, they are just different. EML is more intimate, while Sophia keeps everything at an arm's length. It really comes down to which presentation you like more.


 


  I enjoyed both rectifiers with my _WA 6 Special Edition_. However, I found the Sophia had a slightly bigger presentation and a touch more down low. And the EML Glass had slightly better focus, returned  greater detail and brought intimacy to the music. I prefer the EML Glass without question! As heard inside my listening room, mind you...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was able to borrow a pair or Osram B65 to use in my WA22, and they sound AWESOME with the LCD-2.  Best I have heard the LCD-2 sound with the WA22.  Now I want a pair, which is really unfortunate, since they are so bloody expensive!


 

 Lalalala..... I didn't read any of that.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My gut tells me the BGRP Tung Sol would really excel with the LCD-2 as well.  My own opportunity to find this out is going to be sometime well into next year I'm afraid so for now the feeling will have to stay in my gut.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Lalalala..... I didn't read any of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yup, I haven't used the BGRP in the WA22 yet, but I plan to now...


----------



## mwilson

I've used TS BGRP in my WA22 and they exhibit a stellar soundstage with outstanding midrange. Everything is properly defined, tight and precise, but I find their bass to be a bit lacking in quantity. The Shuguang Treasure have considerably more bass, albeit less tight as the tung-sols. Once I've listened to my tung-sols (I have the VT-231 version) I find it hard to go back to the treasures; the instrument separation and precision is noticeably lacking in comparison on the latter.
   
  I was actually contemplating springing for a pair of B65s, but Skylab just saved me $1,500 (thanks!) by pointing out their bass being less in quantity compared to the TS.
   
  Edit - just a few more words on the TS vs. treasures - With the TS BGRP I could effortlessly hear detail I haven't heard previously, compared to the treasures. There's a sensation of efforless airiness I haven't heard with other drivers before.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was able to borrow a pair or Osram B65 to use in my WA22, and they sound AWESOME with the LCD-2.  Best I have heard the LCD-2 sound with the WA22.  Now I want a pair, which is really unfortunate, since they are so bloody expensive!


 

 Well, at $1400.00 a pair I would hope they sound good: http://www.tejastubes.com/NOSMarconiOsramB65MetalBase.htm.  If I had a time machine, I'd go back to 1942, kill Hitler and grab a boatload to tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Where does it say Jack sells EML tubes on his site? All of his upgrade/separate purchase packages are specifically from other providers. Does he just have a ton of different tubes laying around that you can ask about and buy whenever?


 

 You sound disappointed.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello, I didn't ever see on Jack's site EML tubes on sale! Here in Europe there is an excellen German seller that offers a guarantee of 12 months (or 2,000 hours) so I think I will buy my EML 5U4G mesh plate from him to replace my Sophia Princess on my WA22. In your opinion EML is better than Sophia on WA22?


 

 To my ear, the EML was a very pleasant and wonderfully musical tube to listen to with lots of detail, tonally correct and can reach down into the celler for bass.  To me it was an upgrade.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, at $1400.00 a pair I would hope they sound good: http://www.tejastubes.com/NOSMarconiOsramB65MetalBase.htm.  If I had a time machine, I'd go back to 1942, kill Hitler and grab a boatload to tubes.


 

_Some of the gear and accessories in this hobby are simply pleasing to the eye. Candy, anyone?_


----------



## grokit

^ pretty
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello, I didn't ever see on Jack's site EML tubes on sale! Here in Europe there is an excellen German seller that offers a guarantee of 12 months (or 2,000 hours) so I think I will buy my EML 5U4G mesh plate from him to replace my Sophia Princess on my WA22. In your opinion EML is better than Sophia on WA22?


 

 They're both very good, but different. To me the EML is more euphonic than the Sophia. As the WA22 is already Woo's most euphonic amp, I don't see a need lean that way with tube selection and prefer the Sophia. Next comparison will be to the EML 274B.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ pretty


 


  This candy is enough to make your wallet and tooth ache at the same time!


----------



## Golfnutz

I don't know why, but I might actually prefer the Sylvania 6F8G (w/ Glenn's adapters) over the TS BGRP. They just have a sense of rawness to them that makes the music sound more authentic.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, at $1400.00 a pair I would hope they sound good: http://www.tejastubes.com/NOSMarconiOsramB65MetalBase.htm.  If I had a time machine, I'd go back to 1942, kill Hitler and grab a boatload to tubes.


 



 Well that didn't work out so well my grandmothers cousin, Claus von Stauffenberg.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well that didn't work out so well my grandmothers cousin, Claus von Stauffenberg.


 
  You're related to him?  Wow, that is impressive.  Very brave man.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was able to borrow a pair or Osram B65 to use in my WA22, and they sound AWESOME with the LCD-2.  Best I have heard the LCD-2 sound with the WA22.  Now I want a pair, which is really unfortunate, since they are so bloody expensive!


 

 Rob, that's great that the WA22 can change so much with a tube change...now I just see 2 issues...
   
  1.) Finding a pair of matched tubes.
  2.) Spending the big $$$ for a pair of matched tubes.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello, I didn't ever see on Jack's site EML tubes on sale! Here in Europe there is an excellen German seller that offers a guarantee of 12 months (or 2,000 hours) so I think I will buy my EML 5U4G mesh plate from him to replace my Sophia Princess on my WA22. In your opinion EML is better than Sophia on WA22?


 
  I've never heard a WA22 so I can't answer that question for you sorry! From what I understand in literature on the different rectifiers I would prefer the Sophia as it has a wider sound stage and more bass extension.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You sound disappointed.


 
  Not at all, just curious that he doesn't advertise the service! It certainly would have saved me the trouble of trying to figure out where to buy tubes. One stop shopping!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Not at all, just curious that he doesn't advertise the service! It certainly would have saved me the trouble of trying to figure out where to buy tubes. One stop shopping!


 
  Yeah, the only way to know is to stay plugged into this thread.  There is a lot going on in here.  Check out some of the past posts for really valuable insight into tube rolling, where to buy tubes and just about everything that can be done to make your Woo sound better.  I have learned a ton of stuff and met some very nice people since hanging out here for the past year. 
   
  Jack is not always the cheapest price, but I like using him as I have built a relationship with him.  There are other really good tube dealers that others really like here as well.
   
  Just post a question, and someone will usually chime in with an answer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Not at all, just curious that he doesn't advertise the service! It certainly would have saved me the trouble of trying to figure out where to buy tubes. One stop shopping!


 


_Even the 'Silent One' knows when to speak up!  _





   
  Whether it's a restaurant, audio boutique or any other business with menu options, I'd encourage you to "_ask"_ if you don't see something posted. The great thing about making inquiries is that it may return additional knowledge about your interests.


----------



## spagetka

Yesterday I received a package with Duende tube rings for all my tubes in WA5. Another curtain disappeared. Sound became crystal clear and more laid back at the same time. Instruments became more visible.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Yesterday I received a package with Duende tube rings for all my tubes in WA5. Another curtain disappeared. Sound became crystal clear and more laid back at the same time. Instruments became more visible.


 

 spagetka, this is great to hear! As I was a bit hesitant when we were all discussing 'rings' in this space last month. Now I'm feeling encouraged...




   
  Can you post a pix when you've the chance? Thanks!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Rob, that's great that the WA22 can change so much with a tube change...now I just see 2 issues...
> 
> 1.) Finding a pair of matched tubes.
> 2.) Spending the big $$$ for a pair of matched tubes.


 

 Music is such an emotionally driven exprience that often times the pricetag simply doesn't factor in, but even having said that the logical part of my brain just screams the notion that diminishing returns must be kicking in pretty strongly when it comes to the B65 tubes.  I can't imagine they are enough of an improvement over the best sylvanias and tung sols to justify a pricetag as big as that of the amp they would go in.
   
  Of course if I were rich I'd still buy some.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Music is such an emotionally driven exprience that often times the pricetag simply doesn't factor in, but even having said that the logical part of my brain just screams the notion that diminishing returns must be kicking in pretty strongly when it comes to the B65 tubes.  I can't imagine they are enough of an improvement over the best sylvanias and tung sols to justify a pricetag as big as that of the amp they would go in.
> 
> Of course if I were rich I'd still buy some.


 

 x2
   
_Just when I thought I was done looking at them for the night... (sigh)_


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Music is such an emotionally driven exprience that often times the pricetag simply doesn't factor in, but even having said that the logical part of my brain just screams the notion that diminishing returns must be kicking in pretty strongly when it comes to the B65 tubes.  I can't imagine they are enough of an improvement over the best sylvanias and tung sols to justify a pricetag as big as that of the amp they would go in.
> 
> Of course if I were rich I'd still buy some.


 

 Well guys, I am just having a nervous breakdown! It is very nice to read this forum and to partecipate to some discussions, but sometimes it drives me really mad (sorry if it is not the right English word). Here I am: in this last period I have spent a large amount of money (no, I am not a rich Russian guy, I am only an average Italian guy that has inherited from his dear late mummy some thousands of Euros) to reach music Nirvana: Naim 555 as source (and at the end of August it will arrive his second power supply!), excellent interconnect and power cables, the mighty WA22, Senn HD 800 (all fully balanced) and as tubes WE421A, TS BG RP (for a matched pair I have spent almost 500,00 euros on Ebay) and Sophia Princess mesh plate. Well I think that my audio system is really excellent and that my WA22 and my Senn are shining thanks to the superb Naim source but then...I read that our "tubemeister" Skylab says that a couple of "cheap" Osram B 65 are the best driver tubes he has ever heard on WA22 (but did you listen yet to TS BG RP or no, Skylab?) and that for some EML 5U4G is better than Sophia and for some others is better Sophia than EML  and so I don't understand anything at all. What can I do now? To spend all that sum to get (if they are always available that is) the Osram B 65, to buy the EML 5U4G and make personal comparison with Sophia Princess? Or what else? Our hobby is wonderful but it can really drives crazy a poor guy! Your "wise" advice is highly needed! Thanks.


----------



## mwilson

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Well guys, I am just having a nervous breakdown! It is very nice to read this forum and to partecipate to some discussions, but sometimes it drives me really mad (sorry if it is not the right English word). Here I am: in this last period I have spent a large amount of money (no, I am not a rich Russian guy, I am only an average Italian guy that has inherited from his dear late mummy some thousands of Euros) to reach music Nirvana: Naim 555 as source (and at the end of August it will arrive his second power supply!), excellent interconnect and power cables, the mighty WA22, Senn HD 800 (all fully balanced) and as tubes WE421A, TS BG RP (for a matched pair I have spent almost 500,00 euros on Ebay) and Sophia Princess mesh plate. Well I think that my audio system is really excellent and that my WA22 and my Senn are shining thanks to the superb Naim source but then...I read that our "tubemeister" Skylab says that a couple of "cheap" Osram B 65 are the best driver tubes he has ever heard on WA22 (but did you listen yet to TS BG RP or no, Skylab?) and that for some EML 5U4G is better than Sophia and for some others is better Sophia than EML  and so I don't understand anything at all. What can I do now? To spend all that sum to get (if they are always available that is) the Osram B 65, to buy the EML 5U4G and make personal comparison with Sophia Princess? Or what else? Our hobby is wonderful but it can really drives crazy a poor guy! Your "wise" advice is highly needed! Thanks.


 


  I think you should take a break from agonizing over individual parts and start enjoying the actual music. You have some fantastic gear right there, better than what most others will ever have, and I can tell you it sounds great. Musical "Nirvana", as you seek it, will never come as long as you're not at peace while giving it a tranquil listen.
   
  Back on topic, I have both the Sophia, and the EML rectifiers. To my ears, the EML offers a more intimate presentation, and, while I prefer it, the Princess is no slouch either. I haven't listened to the B65s, but at $1.5k a pair I'm not sure I can justify it, given the law of diminishing returns over the TS BGRP I have.


----------



## rosgr63

LUMAZ look closer to home for some nice tubes, no need to spend a fortune.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ That's why I stopped tube rolling. I would spend the $1400 on a new amp (ss or tube) and/or new headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Bye the way. I took some inventory on the Dutch people who are wearing headphones on the street this afternoon. I stopped after 2 minutes. Too many to count--but these were noteworthy. This is just a quick tally 'cause I didn't recognize the model types:
   
  5 Fostex (don't know the model #)
  1 Grado (black)
  1 Philips (white and cool looking--and the biggest)
  2 Beats
  20 unclassified.
   
  That's all folks.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Yesterday I received a package with Duende tube rings for all my tubes in WA5. Another curtain disappeared. Sound became crystal clear and more laid back at the same time. Instruments became more visible.


 

 Well, for this kind of things my high end retailer (and friend) is very honest and competent. I have asked him for some tube rings to put on my TS BG RP and instead of selling me his "branded" tube rings (at the price of about 35 euros for a couple) he took me at an electrician's shop and he made me buy some simple rubber rings (0,90 for a couple!) because, in his opinion, they give the same improvement in SQ of the most expensive branded rings and this is absolutely true!
  Now he has just lend me a sort of table to put under my WA22. It is made of two black panels and between the two panels there are four springs: when I turn them counterclockwise the two panels bears off and I get more high and midrange frequencies, on the contrary when I turn clockwise, the two panels approaches each other and I get more bass frequencies. Also this "table" get rid of all eventual microphonic noise that my tubes can produce. A very useful addition to my system if I may say (but I don't know yet how much is his price!)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Yesterday I received a package with Duende tube rings for all my tubes in WA5. Another curtain disappeared. Sound became crystal clear and more laid back at the same time. Instruments became more visible.


 

 I have a couple of pairs of GEC 6AS7G's and one of the pairs is crystal clear and the other I think would benefit from a pair of tube rings.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Rob, that's great that *the WA22 can change so much with a tube change*...now I just see 2 issues...
> 
> 1.) Finding a pair of matched tubes.
> 2.) Spending the big $$$ for a pair of matched tubes.


 
   
  Jack doesn't call the WA22 his "most euphonic tube amp" for nothing. I believe he uses the term _surreal_.

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Music is such an emotionally driven exprience that often times the pricetag simply doesn't factor in, but even having said that the logical part of my brain just screams the notion that diminishing returns must be kicking in pretty strongly when it comes to the B65 tubes.  *I can't imagine they are enough of an improvement over the best sylvanias and tung sols to justify a pricetag as big as that of the amp they would go in.*


 
   
  There are a lot of tubes that Rob will never hear with his WA22, unless he changes his stance on avoiding new issue tubes. The TS BG RP's are nice enough, but those Shuggie Treasures have their good points as well. A lot of this is personal preference, as well as how they play with the other tubes in the combo you're using. Your selected headphones are also important, as well as synergy with your source, playback software, and yes even cable selection.
  
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *LUMAZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Well guys, I am just having a nervous breakdown! It is very nice to read this forum and to partecipate to some discussions, but sometimes it drives me really mad (sorry if it is not the right English word). Here I am: in this last period I have spent a large amount of money (no, I am not a rich Russian guy, I am only an average Italian guy that has inherited from his dear late mummy some thousands of Euros) to reach music Nirvana: Naim 555 as source (and at the end of August it will arrive his second power supply!), excellent interconnect and power cables, the mighty WA22, Senn HD 800 (all fully balanced) and as tubes WE421A, TS BG RP (for a matched pair I have spent almost 500,00 euros on Ebay) and Sophia Princess mesh plate. Well I think that my audio system is really excellent and that my WA22 and my Senn are shining thanks to the superb Naim source but then...I read that our "tubemeister" Skylab says that a couple of "cheap" Osram B 65 are the best driver tubes he has ever heard on WA22 (but did you listen yet to TS BG RP or no, Skylab?) and that for some EML 5U4G is better than Sophia and for some others is better Sophia than EML  and so I don't understand anything at all. What can I do now? To spend all that sum to get (if they are always available that is) the Osram B 65, to buy the EML 5U4G and make personal comparison with Sophia Princess? Or what else? Our hobby is wonderful but it can really drives crazy a poor guy! Your "wise" advice is highly needed! Thanks.


 
   
  With the WA22 tube selection makes a huge (the hugest?) difference, and this can definitely be a double-edge sword as you are discovering! The down side is of course that one man's prime steak is another's ground chuck so you really have to discover your own preferences.

  
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> LUMAZ look closer to home for some nice tubes, no need to spend a fortune.


 

 X2, although for myself so far I haven't found a better combo for the WA22 than the upgraded package that Jack has selected for us right on the Woo website. Will be rolling in/comparing to the "other" EML mesh-plate rectifier soon.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> *^ That's why I stopped tube rolling. I would spend the $1400 on a new amp (ss or tube) and/or new headphones.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ^ This. I've spent more than that on various tubes for the WA22, and am happy that I've finally found a combination that works for me across the board. I have the tubes that I want now, and my backups are almost all in place. Simplification has been accomplished, the need to roll has been completely abated, and the search for further refinement is almost complete.
   
  As far as observed headphones on the streets of Holland go, I'm happily surprised there weren't more Beats, perhaps they aren't marketed as heavily across the pond. The prevalence of the Fostex's are probably due to the club/DJ scene. I'm surprised there was only one Phillips that you recognized, as they are pretty much the Dutch national brand. What, no iBuds?!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mikemalter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have a couple of pairs of GEC 6AS7G's and one of the pairs is crystal clear and the other I think would benefit from a pair of tube rings.


 
   
  Is there a continuous hum in that not-so-crystal-clear tube? Hi hum? Low Hum? Ho Hum?
  Flying back tomorrow morning on Royal Dutch Airlines KLM #605. It will be good to return to my own Private Wooville.
  It is storming here. Electrical storms. Strong winds.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Is there a continuous hum in that not-so-crystal-clear tube? Hi hum? Low Hum? Ho Hum?
> Flying back tomorrow morning on Royal Dutch Airlines KLM #605. It will be good to return to my own Private Wooville.
> It is storming here. Electrical storms. Strong winds.


 

  
  It's not a hum as such, but I'd describe the one pair as too busy sounding.  The other pair I got from Skylab, and they are totally crystal clear.  I can even tap the amp and not hear it, but with the others, if I even type on my keyboard, I can hear it.
  
  Glad to hear you're going to be back in town soon.  I have a surprise I'll have to tell you about when you get back.


----------



## Clayton SF

I know cassettes have a terrible reputation as a source but any old electronic equipment that has probably served very well in its lifetime is still sad to see discarded. This is a discarded cassette player I came across at that record outlet in Leiden. It's plug and prongs severed, dusty, and dinged up and tossed under a record bin. I wonder if it would have been worth the effort to have salvaged it and given it new life with a Woomate?


----------



## Icenine2

Mike,
   
  I'll give you $10K so you can pick me up a Bugatti Atlantic too!
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, at $1400.00 a pair I would hope they sound good: http://www.tejastubes.com/NOSMarconiOsramB65MetalBase.htm.  If I had a time machine, I'd go back to 1942, kill Hitler and grab a boatload to tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Well guys, I am just having a nervous breakdown! It is very nice to read this forum and to partecipate to some discussions, but sometimes it drives me really mad (sorry if it is not the right English word). Here I am: in this last period I have spent a large amount of money (no, I am not a rich Russian guy, I am only an average Italian guy that has inherited from his dear late mummy some thousands of Euros) to reach music Nirvana: Naim 555 as source (and at the end of August it will arrive his second power supply!), excellent interconnect and power cables, the mighty WA22, Senn HD 800 (all fully balanced) and as tubes WE421A, TS BG RP (for a matched pair I have spent almost 500,00 euros on Ebay) and Sophia Princess mesh plate. Well I think that my audio system is really excellent and that my WA22 and my Senn are shining thanks to the superb Naim source but then...I read that our "tubemeister" Skylab says that a couple of "cheap" Osram B 65 are the best driver tubes he has ever heard on WA22 (but did you listen yet to TS BG RP or no, Skylab?) and that for some EML 5U4G is better than Sophia and for some others is better Sophia than EML  and so I don't understand anything at all. What can I do now? To spend all that sum to get (if they are always available that is) the Osram B 65, to buy the EML 5U4G and make personal comparison with Sophia Princess? Or what else? Our hobby is wonderful but it can really drives crazy a poor guy! Your "wise" advice is highly needed! Thanks.


 

 My advice is to not let thoughts of "what could be" stop you from enjoying "what is" right in front of you.  You have a really great system already.  There is *always* something "better" out there but constantly chasing that without stopping to enjoy where you've already gotten is not a good thing IMO.  The BGRP Tung Sol is an amazing tube, as is the WE 421A.  If you enjoy music on your system then take that feeling and keep it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Is there a continuous hum in that not-so-crystal-clear tube? Hi hum? Low Hum? Ho Hum?
> Flying back tomorrow morning on Royal Dutch Airlines KLM #605. It will be good to return to my own Private Wooville.
> It is storming here. Electrical storms. Strong winds.


 


  KLM - FLT 605 . :
   
  Will track you like NORAD... while under my Denons of course. Enjoy your flight!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know cassettes have a terrible reputation as a source but any old electronic equipment that has probably served very well in its lifetime is still sad to see discarded. This is a discarded cassette player I came across at that record outlet in Leiden. It's plug and prongs severed, dusty, and dinged up and tossed under a record bin. I wonder if it would have been worth the effort to have salvaged it and given it new life with a Woomate?


 

 I love Nakamichi! Is there anyway you can return that thing to a former Nak user/lover like me? Will make it 'right' for you one way or another...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Well guys, I am just having a nervous breakdown! It is very nice to read this forum and to partecipate to some discussions, but sometimes it drives me really mad (sorry if it is not the right English word). Here I am: in this last period I have spent a large amount of money (no, I am not a rich Russian guy, I am only an average Italian guy that has inherited from his dear late mummy some thousands of Euros) to reach music Nirvana: Naim 555 as source (and at the end of August it will arrive his second power supply!), excellent interconnect and power cables, the mighty WA22, Senn HD 800 (all fully balanced) and as tubes WE421A, TS BG RP (for a matched pair I have spent almost 500,00 euros on Ebay) and Sophia Princess mesh plate. Well I think that my audio system is really excellent and that my WA22 and my Senn are shining thanks to the superb Naim source but then...I read that our "tubemeister" Skylab says that a couple of "cheap" Osram B 65 are the best driver tubes he has ever heard on WA22 (but did you listen yet to TS BG RP or no, Skylab?) and that for some EML 5U4G is better than Sophia and for some others is better Sophia than EML  and so I don't understand anything at all. What can I do now? To spend all that sum to get (if they are always available that is) the Osram B 65, to buy the EML 5U4G and make personal comparison with Sophia Princess? Or what else? Our hobby is wonderful but it can really drives crazy a poor guy! Your "wise" advice is highly needed! Thanks.


 


  Overshadowed ~
   
  One of the best things you could allow to happen is two things: full burn-in and full play-in. The latter can be any number of hours and time that will pass. You need to develop a relationship with your gear and spend quality time getting to know it's sonic signature and quirks.
   
  Discovering what it does best and where it falls short of addressing the sound you're looking for. Dating is fine and can be downright alluring, inviting and exciting (if you're lucky). But try getting to know your current date more intimately first.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My advice is to not let thoughts of "what could be" stop you from enjoying "what is" right in front of you.  You have a really great system already.  There is *always* something "better" out there but constantly chasing that without stopping to enjoy where you've already gotten is not a good thing IMO.  The BGRP Tung Sol is an amazing tube, as is the WE 421A.  If you enjoy music on your system then take that feeling and keep it.


 
   
  Indictment ~

 Excellent advice - I share your view. Even after acquiring the _Best of the Best_, if users are unable to emotionally connect to the music, they might as well be collectors (_Food fight! Silent One ducks below his own dinning room table_).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a couple of pairs of GEC 6AS7G's and one of the pairs is crystal clear and the other I think would benefit from a pair of tube rings.


 

 Odd-lot.
   
  I'm going to move on the Duende's this autumn (Oct/Nov). Will find out if tube sellers will break up pairs for rectifiers. If not, maybe you, shipsupt or Clayton could split the cost with me for the one that fits our EML Glass, if interested.


----------



## shipsupt

I've never tried any dampers, so I'd be interested in trying one to gain my own impressions of the effects.  Let me know if you need a partner in crime on this one.  
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Odd-lot.
> 
> I'm going to move on the Duende's this autumn (Oct/Nov). Will find out if tube sellers will break up pairs for rectifiers. If not, maybe you, shipsupt or Clayton could split the cost with me for the one that fits our EML Glass, if interested.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I've never tried any dampers, so I'd be interested in trying one to gain my own impressions of the effects.  Let me know if you need a partner in crime on this one.


 

 I will I will! I understand it'd be a luxury for my rectifier to have its own backup tube ring... but not at that cost! Hopefully a seller would offer 'singles.' If not, if you have EML Glass in your WA6SE, I could buy it and drive it over or drop it mail. I want to ring all three tubes on the Woo!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Pick me. Pick me pick me! Oops, too late. Back to the end of the line.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I really should go to bed. I have a train to catch at 4.00 a.m. and a plane to board at 10.00 a.m. and it is 1.58 a.m.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Pick me. Pick me pick me! Oops, too late. Back to the end of the line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  4 am?! You're in trouble!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You've plenty of time for some Duende action. First up, a safe and enjoyable flight home...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I love Nakamichi! Is there anyway you can return that thing to a former Nak user/lover like me? Will make it 'right' for you one way or another...


 


  I have a Nak 480Z black that has an intermittent record button...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have a Nak 480Z black that has an intermittent record button...


 






 Does it have one foot out the door?! I'd clean it up and hook it up to both the Woo & Pioneer! Which is one thing I really like about my USBridge - running both amps at the same time...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does it have one foot out the door?! I'd clean it up and hook it up to both the Woo & Pioneer! Which is one thing I really like about my USBridge - running both amps at the same time...


 
  I'm keeping it around until I finally transfer the original broadcast of the musical WarriorAnt from Central Park, and then it's out the door...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm keeping it around until I finally transfer the original broadcast of the musical WarriorAnt from Central Park, and then it's out the door...


 

 Wait... I could very well be more interested in the program than the medium!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wait... I could very well be more interested in the program than the medium!


 
  http://theater.nytimes.com/mem/theater/treview.html?pagewanted=print&res=940DE6DF1639F937A15753C1A96E948260
   
  http://www.abebooks.com/Poems-Lee-Breuer-Warrior-Ant-Interpreted/155867120/bd
   
  http://articles.philly.com/1988-06-17/news/26264376_1_ant-steel-band-lee-breuer
   
  http://www.allmusic.com/artist/lee-breuer-p326194/songs
   
  I have the original broadcast live from Central Park.
   
  Sorry to derail the thread again.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> http://theater.nytimes.com/mem/theater/treview.html?pagewanted=print&res=940DE6DF1639F937A15753C1A96E948260
> 
> http://www.abebooks.com/Poems-Lee-Breuer-Warrior-Ant-Interpreted/155867120/bd
> 
> ...


 

 No derailment here. First thing I'm goin' to do is to see how it sounds on both my_ WA 6 Special Edition_ and the Pioneer Integrated amp! And then share my private tel with you so that it can be taped on to the Nak...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No derailment here. First thing I'm goin' to do is to see how it sounds on both my_ WA 6 Special Edition_ and the Pioneer Integrated amp! And then share my private tel with you so that it can be taped on to the Nak...


 
  Ill be using this in my DAW to clean up occasional static hits in the broadcast.  http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/msc/


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a couple of pairs of GEC 6AS7G's and one of the pairs is crystal clear and the other I think would benefit from a pair of tube rings.


 

 Wanna get rid of a pair?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Ill be using this in my DAW to clean up occasional static hits in the broadcast.  http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/msc/


 


  A man of quality, good move!


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Odd-lot.
> 
> I'm going to move on the Duende's this autumn (Oct/Nov). Will find out if tube sellers will break up pairs for rectifiers. If not, maybe you, shipsupt or Clayton could split the cost with me for the one that fits our EML Glass, if interested.


 

 Thanks to you all for your "wise" words.
  About tube rings, as I have already said in my last post, these Duende are perfectly equals to my tube rings (oops, to tell the truth, my tubes are black and are priced only 0,90 euros a pair). Really guys, you have been very kind to give me wise advice about my insanity to spend and not to ever rest (at least my wallet!) and I appreciate very much, but this time, why don't you listen to me? My Naim seller (as I always said,first of all is a friend  so I believe in him) sells some kind of tubes rings as your Duende but he advised me against spend about 40 euros and took me to an Electrician's shop (I don't know how is the English name for a shop that sells all kinds of electric gadgets!). The black rings that I have bought there give the same and exact accomplishment of those that it sells for 40 euros (we have made a try in his shop), the only difference being that they cost 0,90 a pair instead of 40 euros!
  I have put two rings on every one of my TS BGRP and I am very happy with them. So why you too  don't try first the cheaper ones? if they are not working, you can always buy Duende rings in a second time. 
  In the past I have spent a lot of money "on magic things" (such as Shakti black stone, Quantum QX4, antiresonances cones, etc.) but to tell the truth, the only magic in these things is the (very high) price!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Thanks to you all for your "wise" words.
> About tube rings, as I have already said in my last post, these Duende are perfectly equals to my tube rings (oops, to tell the truth, my tubes are black and are priced only 0,90 euros a pair). Really guys, you have been very kind to give me wise advice about my insanity to spend and not to ever rest (at least my wallet!) and I appreciate very much, but this time, why don't you listen to me? My Naim seller (as I always said,first of all is a friend  so I believe in him) sells some kind of tubes rings as your Duende but he advised me against spend about 40 euros and took me to an Electrician's shop (I don't know how is the English name for a shop that sells all kinds of electric gadgets!). The black rings that I have bought there give the same and exact accomplishment of those that it sells for 40 euros (we have made a try in his shop), the only difference being that they cost 0,90 a pair instead of 40 euros!
> I have put two rings on every one of my TS BGRP and I am very happy with them. So why you too  don't try first the cheaper ones? if they are not working, you can always buy Duende rings in a second time.
> In the past I have spent a lot of money "on magic things" (such as Shakti black stone, Quantum QX4, antiresonances cones, etc.) but to tell the truth, the only magic in these things is the (very high) price!


 

 I appreciate the sharing of your experience. Since I won't be in the shop making anything myself, I'm always open for an audition. Especially 'imports!' Perhaps, your friend would like a bit of North American notoriety and can easily achieve this by sending me a trio (pair 6SN7; single EML 5U4G) of his hand-crafted rings.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll make sure his rings get the proper attention they deserve. Out of curiosity, does your region host any electronic shows? Are there any gatherings (meets) by friends or like minded audiophiles? If so, have you had an opportunity to attend any?


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I appreciate the sharing of your experience. Since I won't be in the shop making anything myself, I'm always open for an audition. Especially 'imports!' Perhaps, your friend would like a bit of North American notoriety and can easily achieve this by sending me a trio (pair 6SN7; single EML 5U4G) of his hand-crafted rings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hello SilentOne, maybe I didn't explain very well in English my theory. My friend (if you want take a look at his shop here is the link: www.gianfaldoni.com) doesn't make by himself tube rings because every shop that sells electric things (such as bulbs, electric socket, etc) has in store these things (that is, at least in Italy). I don't really know what they are for, out of our hi end "hobby", but for our purpose they really work and for me that is enough. I don't know what kind of shop you have in the USA where you can find them but I suppose that you can go where you buy electric bulbs and things like that. Unfortunately, at the moment, I can't put on the thread some pic to let you see how they are but I assure that they are equal to Duende or expensive tube rings like that in SQ improvements.
  Why you Bay Area's guys don't try to make a search of these things in some electric shops? (I think that also MikeMalter is interested in buying them). Unfortunately I didn't find anything to put on my rectifier tube (the Sophia Princess) because it is too large. 
  In Tuscany, every year, there is a small electronic show (two days). The last one has been in Florence, last June, but I could't attend to because on weekends I take care of my old daddy.
  My luck is to be friend with Mr. Gianfaldoni that give me the possibily to go in his shop, also after work's hour (that is in the evening) to listen to a lot of high end gear: turntables. cd player, cables, speaker system and so on. He is a very competent guy and every time he gives explanations, honest advice, and answer to every my question about all that I am dubious. Like I already said, now he has lend me a sort of double panel table with four springs that helps to eliminate microphonicity on my WA22's tubes and also to change the presence of low, mid range, and high frequencies. For example, if you listen to hard rock and you want more punch and bass you turn clockwise the springs, otherwise if you are listening to classical and you want more mid and high frequencies you turn counterclockwise. Simple as that!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Odd-lot.
> 
> I'm going to move on the Duende's this autumn (Oct/Nov). Will find out if tube sellers will break up pairs for rectifiers. If not, maybe you, shipsupt or Clayton could split the cost with me for the one that fits our EML Glass, if interested.


 


  I am using the Duende in my WA5-LE tubes and like them better than the Herbie's Halo I was using (and still have). The only potential issue is that the Dunende requires parallel walls to stay in place. In my case my EML 5U4G Mesh tubes do not have the wall parallal at the "top hat". It apers down going up so the Duende silicone ring just slip up and can't stay in place. My EML 300B are fine as well as the rest of my rectifiers and 6SN7 tubes.
   
  Check your tube first to make sure the walls are parallel before ordering.


----------



## Icenine2

MM,
   
  Looking at your WA5LE is what started me in higher-end headphone land!  Still beautiful!  I know you've covered this but which headphone is your preference over the others?
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am using the Duende in my WA5-LE tubes and like them better than the Herbie's Halo I was using (and still have). The only potential issue is that the Dunende requires parallel walls to stay in place. In my case my EML 5U4G Mesh tubes do not have the wall parallal at the "top hat". It apers down going up so the Duende silicone ring just slip up and can't stay in place. My EML 300B are fine as well as the rest of my rectifiers and 6SN7 tubes.
> 
> Check your tube first to make sure the walls are parallel before ordering.


----------



## musicman59

Thanks Icenine2. It is really splitting hairs between the HD800 and the T1 but after the last mod in the HD800 when Robert replaced the tiny crappy wire that goes from the connector to the driver with a OCC WireWorld wire and using a Zeus cable I think the HD800 wins by a nose.

Among the closed design I think the DX1000 is the winner after the recable job. I still need to recable the D7000 to make a fair comparison.

Over all to my taste the HD800 is my favorite together with the HE-6 but I need to be careful with what drivers to use with the HE-6. Using the HE-6 the amp distorts when I use my Mullard ECC32 but sounds great with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base chrome top or the Brimar CV1988.
Don't know why this happens but it does so I basically use the WA5-LE with the Mullard for all my dynamic headphones and my Threshold T50 for the HE-6.


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello dear friends,
  I have decided to relax (well, at least for some months) to let breathe again my poor wallet and to enjoy all my precious CD's until, I think, next Springtime (more or less)! Then I will certainly feel the urge to buy an headphone ampli to equal (if possible) my Naim 555. At this moment, the only one that I have in mind seems to be Apex Pinnacle but since I am a Woo's fan and lover, I will hope that new Woo flagship ampli (any news about it?) will be up to the Pinnacle. And here you all will be very useful, I mean, those of you lucky ones that will go to Rocky Mountain Audio Fest next October.
  Please guys, if you can, listen carefully to Apex Pinnacle (and also to Cavalli Audio LF) and, if already available, to the new Woo ampli and let us know (we poor mortals that live in far away lands...) what do you sincerely think about it, and which one, in your opinion, is the best tube headphone ampi in the world.Thanks in advance!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Over all to my taste the HD800 is my favorite together with the HE-6 but I need to be careful with what drivers to use with the HE-6. Using the HE-6 the amp distorts when I use my Mullard ECC32 but sounds great with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base chrome top or the Brimar CV1988.
> Don't know why this happens but it does so I basically use the WA5-LE with the Mullard for all my dynamic headphones and my Threshold T50 for the HE-6.


 
   
  The ECC32 is a lower gain tube than the 6SN7.  That's probably the issue.


----------



## dminches

Is gain different than mu?  The ECC32 mu is 32 vs. 20 for 6SN7.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is gain different than mu?  The ECC32 mu is 32 vs. 20 for 6SN7.


 

 Right you are - my bad.  Mu = amplification factor, they are the same.  I thought it was lower but just looked at the Mullard datasheet. 
   
  Every time I look at the datasheet, I cannot for the life of me figure out why any of us use the ECC32 in a 6SN7 circuit.  While they often sound good, and I am one who has used them over the years, they are really VERY different from the 6SN7...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Wanna get rid of a pair?


 

 PM Sent.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right you are - my bad.  Mu = amplification factor, they are the same.  I thought it was lower but just looked at the Mullard datasheet.
> 
> Every time I look at the datasheet, I cannot for the life of me figure out why any of us use the ECC32 in a 6SN7 circuit.  While they often sound good, and I am one who has used them over the years, they are really VERY different from the 6SN7...


 

 Instead of comfortably listening at 10 o'clock with 6SN7s, I can barely get to 8 o'clock with ECC32s.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Instead of comfortably listening at 10 o'clock with 6SN7s, I can barely get to 8 o'clock with ECC32s.


 

 I never really cared for my ECC32's.  I tried them for a few hours after reading about them here, but never took to them and will probably sell them if I can find a buyer.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yeah, the only way to know is to stay plugged into this thread.  There is a lot going on in here.  Check out some of the past posts for really valuable insight into tube rolling, where to buy tubes and just about everything that can be done to make your Woo sound better.  I have learned a ton of stuff and met some very nice people since hanging out here for the past year.
> 
> Jack is not always the cheapest price, but I like using him as I have built a relationship with him.  There are other really good tube dealers that others really like here as well.
> 
> Just post a question, and someone will usually chime in with an answer.


 
  Thanks! I'm still learning, but I feel a lot better off than I did just a few weeks ago 
   
  Do you remember off hand where the tube rolling stuff is in this thread? 800 pages is a bit much to sort through on limited time...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I never really cared for my ECC32's.  I tried them for a few hours after reading about them here, but never took to them and will probably sell them if I can find a buyer.


 
   
   
  humm, any tubes trade you are interested?


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I never really cared for my ECC32's.  I tried them for a few hours after reading about them here, but never took to them and will probably sell them if I can find a buyer.


 

 Mike, what didn't you like about them?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I never really cared for my ECC32's.  I tried them for a few hours after reading about them here, but never took to them and will probably sell them if I can find a buyer.


 

 Mike and I and another HF'er got the last four pairs from a UK eBay seller. They were (are) the nicest/newest ones I had seen. I got 2 pair myself and love them more than any other driver I have...including, True Sylvania Bad Boys, TS BGRP oval, TS 6f8G and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, and I'll bet that even though they are not up to Mikes's taste, some here would love them. They are the finest NOS I've seen. I'd grab them in a heartbeat if I could. jc9394 are you listening


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am using the Duende in my WA5-LE tubes and like them better than the Herbie's Halo I was using (and still have). The only potential issue is that the Dunende requires parallel walls to stay in place. In my case my EML 5U4G Mesh tubes do not have the wall parallal at the "top hat". It apers down going up so the Duende silicone ring just slip up and can't stay in place. My EML 300B are fine as well as the rest of my rectifiers and 6SN7 tubes.
> 
> Check your tube first to make sure the walls are parallel before ordering.


 
   
  EML Glass ~

 Same boat. Same tube inside said boat. _But we're gonna make it do what it do! _ Hmmm, I wonder if the L.A. skyline will look like that in 3011? (space rings around skyscrapers)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice rig, by the way...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Thanks Icenine2. It is really splitting hairs between the HD800 and the T1 but after the last mod in the HD800 when Robert replaced the tiny crappy wire that goes from the connector to the driver with a OCC WireWorld wire and using a Zeus cable I think the HD800 wins by a nose.
> 
> Among the closed design I think the DX1000 is the winner after the recable job. I still need to recable the D7000 to make a fair comparison.
> 
> ...


 

 Shocking!
   
  You still need to get the D7000 re-cabled? After pushing me over the cable cliff first?! I had no idea what to expect but landed quite well, thank you. The Zeus cable really took my WA6SE higher (credit Aphrodite Cu29). No, really it did, as Sly & The Family Stone could be heard emanating from the cans during testing _"I Want To Take You Higher..."  _


----------



## jc9394

nututubes said:


> Mike and I and another HF'er got the last four pairs from a UK eBay seller. They were (are) the nicest/newest ones I had seen. I got 2 pair myself and love them more than any other driver I have...including, True Sylvania Bad Boys, TS BGRP oval, TS 6f8G and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, and I'll bet that even though they are not up to Mikes's taste, some here would love them. They are the finest NOS I've seen. I'd grab them in a heartbeat if I could. jc9394 are you listening




Jc is listening alright but his wallet said "you just paid for a balanced beta22, better lay low or wifey will collect the life insurance money soon".


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Jc is listening alright but his wallet said "you just paid for a balanced beta22, better lay low or wifey will collect the life insurance money soon".


 


  Your wife is smooth. She can discreetly integrate the luxe goodies from car trunk-to-closet. You, on the other hand, with that BIG four board multi-dimensional balanced beta22... and extra tubes no less, where you gonna go?! Basements are too easy, you'd need an attic to hide your electronic purchases!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Mike and I and another HF'er got the last four pairs from a UK eBay seller. They were (are) the nicest/newest ones I had seen. I got 2 pair myself and love them more than any other driver I have...including, True Sylvania Bad Boys, TS BGRP oval, TS 6f8G and Sylvania 6SN7W metal base, and I'll bet that even though they are not up to Mikes's taste, some here would love them. They are the finest NOS I've seen. I'd grab them in a heartbeat if I could. jc9394 are you listening


 

 Thank you for vouching for them.  They delete the auctions at eBay very quickly now, so there is nothing to refer back to anymore.
  
   


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> humm, any tubes trade you are interested?


 

 If you have a few pairs of GEC 6AS7G's or TungSol BGRP oval micas.
  
   


  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Mike, what didn't you like about them?


 

 I found them too forward for my tastes.  To me, they are like the TunSol BGRP's but more so with a deeper bottom end and a higher top end and are more dynamic.  They just did not work well in my environment.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> If you have a few pairs of GEC 6AS7G's or TungSol BGRP oval micas.


 
   
  Wow, never knew they are worth that much.  I will be just as happy with my TS BGRP if I never going to try the Mullard ECC32.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your wife is smooth. She can discreetly integrate the luxe goodies from car trunk-to-closet. You, on the other hand, with that BIG four board multi-dimensional balanced beta22... and extra tubes no less, where you gonna go?! Basements are too easy, you'd need an attic to hide your electronic purchases!


 


  No where on this purchase at all.  That is why I need to lay low for a long while.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No where on this purchase at all.  That is why I need to lay low for a long while.


 

 I've yet to meet my fellow Woo mate, the least I could do is help you persevere...


----------



## Skylab

You can buy NOS Chelmer branded ECC32's from Tubeworld for $550/pair.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You can buy NOS Chelmer branded ECC32's from Tubeworld for $550/pair.


 

 I saw that too, but with the new beta22, I will be really busy listening so I think I can wait on the ECC32.


----------



## Skylab

Guys, just a heads up, there is an eBay seller trying to pass off Russian 6AS7G's as Brimar/Mullard:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180715148906
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180715147028
   
  These are unquestionably Russian tubes and are not worth 10% of the asking price here.
   
  Be warned!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Thanks for the warning. Is there anyway to alert eBay of this fraud?


----------



## Skylab

I think it's tough with vintage stuff.  I know they are Russian - it;s very, very easy to tell.  But if he says to eBay "I'm sure they are Brimar made", how would I go about proving it conclusively to eBay?  Plus, I don't have the time or inclination.  I would prefer just to warn my friends


----------



## jc9394

Thanks goodness I have the GEC already and no need to get another 6AS7G.  Thanks for the heads up...


----------



## Clayton SF

I see. Thanks again, though.
  The printing on the base looks too perfect and clean. But then again, there are some NOS with pristine printing as well.
  Such a racket.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think it's tough with vintage stuff.  I know they are Russian - it;s very, very easy to tell.  But if he says to eBay "I'm sure they are Brimar made", how would I go about proving it conclusively to eBay?  Plus, I don't have the time or inclination.  I would prefer just to warn my friends


 


  Thanks for letting us know, much appreciated.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I see. Thanks again, though.
> The printing on the base looks too perfect and clean. But then again, there are some NOS with pristine printing as well.
> Such a racket.


 

 That's the thing...these are not "fakes", so the printing can look great.  They were almost certainly marketed by the companies whose imprint appears - which is NOT Brimar or Mullard.  There were, toward the end of the tube heyday, lots of tubes that said "Made in England" that were not.  In fact, as I understand it, the presence of the word "England" is problematic in and of itself, as real British tubes said exactly that - "Made In Britain" or "British Made", not "Made in England".  And the National Electronics pair doesn't even say that on them at all!  The "problem" that seller has is he is representing them to be Brimar or Mullard made, when the tubes don't say that, and he is wrong about it.  And he took the one pair of tubes that is marked England improperly and then extrapolates that to the National pair!  A comedy of errors.  Hard to say if the seller is devious, or just ignorant.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's the thing...these are not "fakes", so the printing can look great.  They were almost certainly marketed by the companies whose imprint appears - which is NOT Brimar or Mullard.  There were, toward the end of the tube heyday, lots of tubes that said "Made in England" that were not.  In fact, as I understand it, the presence of the word "England" is problematic in and of itself, as real British tubes said exactly that - "Made In Britain" or "British Made", not "Made in England".  And the National Electronics pair doesn't even say that on them at all!  The "problem" that seller has is he is representing them to be Brimar or Mullard made, when the tubes don't say that, and he is wrong about it.  And he took the one pair of tubes that is marked England improperly and then extrapolates that to the National pair!  A comedy of errors.  Hard to say if the seller is devious, or just ignorant.


 

 Thanks again for the explanations, this is why this thread so great.  Have a lot of experience tube users that provides us (newb) info that we need.


----------



## Skylab

Here is a pair of Svetlana 6AS7G for comparison:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-Svetlana-6H5C-Winged-C-1960-ties-Lot-2-/200643644140
   
  The absolute dead giveaway is the dual inverted cup getter.  This leaves no doubt. 
   
  The 1960's era Svetlana is not a bad sounding tube by any means.  The tough part is you can buy TWO DOZEN Svetlana 6AS7G's for the same price that this guy is selling a pair for.


----------



## MSSG

Please help a newbie, these NOS Silvertone 2399 look (IMO) like the real stuff (2399/5998) can it be fakes? I'm plan to use them in my WA2.


----------



## Skylab

Those are definitely Tung-Sol made, yes. The clear indicator are the plates - those "waffle"/"Dice side 6" style is only the 5998/2399 and some 6520's. Oddly, they seem to have the Sylvania 312 manufacturer code on them, but there is no question that no one but Tung-Sol ever made the 5998 or the 2399.  They resold these to Western Electric (as the 421-A), IBM, Dumont, Silvertone, and maybe others.


----------



## MSSG

Thank you Skylab, you made my day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Those are definitely Tung-Sol made, yes. The clear indicator are the plates - those "waffle"/"Dice side 6" style is only the 5998/2399 and some 6520's. Oddly, they seem to have the Sylvania 312 manufacturer code on them, but there is no question that no one but Tung-Sol ever made the 5998 or the 2399.  They resold these to Western Electric (as the 421-A), IBM, Dumont, Silvertone, and maybe others.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Man I've got a lot to learn, I wouldn't have been able to tell what any of those tubes are just by looking. How are you guys all so sure?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Man I've got a lot to learn, I wouldn't have been able to tell what any of those tubes are just by looking. How are you guys all so sure?


 

 Lots of research, and time, and some trial and error.


----------



## dannie01

Hey all Wollies, I need you experts' advise, please.
   
  I have problem with my pair of Mullard ECC32, I hear DISTORTION 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 from my WA5LE whatever genre of music I played with it. I then swapped them into the Sylvania chrome top short bottle, everything become fine and I can hear nice music from the LCD-2 as usual.
   
  Is it the Mullard ECC32 really a problem for WA5LE or my pair of tube are going bad that fast, I only play them for only few months but I don't remember how many hrs exactly they're with the amp, maybe few hundred of hrs, not sure. I will give it a try again tomorrow to confirm if it is really the problem of the Mullard.
   
  Does anyone have similar experience with their Mullard in the Woo?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey all Wollies, I need you experts' advise, please.
> 
> I have problem with my pair of Mullard ECC32, I hear DISTORTION
> 
> ...


 

 Do you have a pair of dynamic headphones to try with the ECC32?
  I have the same issue when I use my HE-6 with my WA5-LE uisng the ECC32 but they sound is great using the Sylvania Brown Base Chrome top or my Brimar CV1988.
   
  Using the the ECC32 with any other dynamic headphons I have no problem what so ever and sound great.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think it's tough with vintage stuff.  I know they are Russian - it;s very, very easy to tell.  But if he says to eBay "I'm sure they are Brimar made", how would I go about proving it conclusively to eBay?  Plus, I don't have the time or inclination.  I would prefer just to warn my friends


 

 Thanks, Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Dannie, is the problem recent?  Did you change headphones recently, or it worked fine before with the same headphones, and now doesn't?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Do you have a pair of dynamic headphones to try with the ECC32?
> I have the same issue when I use my HE-6 with my WA5-LE uisng the ECC32 but they sound is great using the Sylvania Brown Base Chrome top or my Brimar CV1988.
> 
> Using the the ECC32 with any other dynamic headphons I have no problem what so ever and sound great.


 

  Thanks for the advise, musicman. I will try the HD800 with the ECC32 tomorrow.


----------



## Silent One

Welcome back, Clayton SF!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the advise, musicman. I will try the HD800 with the ECC32 tomorrow.


 


   The HD800 sounds wonderful with the ECC32 in my amp. If they distort then it is clearly the tubes. My feeling is that you are havin gthe same issue as I did where the ECC32 can not drive (for whatever reason) the amp properly for the HE-6 and the Sylvania really can.
   
  Here is a picture of my amp at our Ann Arbor meet last winter. As you can see it had the Sylvania. Jude listen to the HE-6 with it and thought that up to that time it was the best sound of the HE-6. Now that they are driven by a speaker amp or eventually by the Dark Star they soun deven better but the WA5-LE/ Sylvania como does a great job too.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Welcome back, Clayton SF!


 

 Yes, welcome back.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks! Zzzzzzzzz. Jet Lag for sure. But not Let Jagged enough to check up on you guys.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks! Zzzzzzzzz. Jet Lag for sure. But not Let Jagged enough to check up on you guys.


 

 A quick walk up and down a couple of your neighborhood streets and you'll be feelin' like a champ! So, when do you sit down for a sequential sound check on each and every amp (99?) you have? _Are you gonna play with Fire tonight?!  _


----------



## Clayton SF

I'll be stoking it with The Best of Nancy Wilson that I picked up in Leiden. I looked at the label and it says Capitol Records, Manufactured by N.V. Bovema -- Heemstede, Holland. This used LP sounds better than brand new ones from the US.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'll be stoking it with The Best of Nancy Wilson that I picked up in Leiden. I looked at the label and it says Capitol Records, Manufactured by N.V. Bovema -- Heemstede, Holland. This used LP sounds better than brand new ones from the US.


 

 Indictment!
   
  No doubt, that's a quality pressing and should have you deep seated in to your couch... well, if you've got furniture mind you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm guessing it's a 1974 overseas platter - our 1973 Oil embargo caused our vinyl shortage Stateside, so that would make sense the huge gap in quality during the era...


----------



## grokit

X3, welcome back!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'll be stoking it with The Best of Nancy Wilson that I picked up in Leiden. I looked at the label and it says Capitol Records, Manufactured by N.V. Bovema -- Heemstede, Holland. This used LP sounds better than brand new ones from the US.


 

 Not surprised about that. I just had to send back my new vinyl copy of Amy Winehouse's Back to Black (which just became the best selling album in the UK this century) to Amazon for a replacement, as it was so warped on the outside edge as to be unplayable for the first track or two on side two, and the overall SQ leaves a bit to be desired especially the first track on side one which could be related I suppose. I may compare it to digital at some point, but I wonder what a copy procured in Holland would have been like in comparison as well.
   
  Also if the jet lag is a real issue melatonin can be quite useful for resetting your internal clock.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X3, welcome back!
> 
> 
> Not surprised about that. I just had to send back my new vinyl copy of Amy Winehouse's Back to Black (which just became the best selling album in the UK this century) to Amazon for a replacement, as it was so warped on the outside edge as to be unplayable for the first track or two on side two, and the overall SQ leaves a bit to be desired especially the first track on side one which could be related I suppose. I may compare it to digital at some point, but I wonder what a copy procured in Holland would have been like in comparison as well.
> ...


 
   



  Is there a forthcoming audiophile grade release coming down the pike?


----------



## Silent One

Feeling Woo-zy.
   
  Just fixed my eyes on a Pre-Order: "The Shadow Of Your Smile" - Astrud Gilberto , 2 LP's 45 RPM 180 grams. Can't wait to pair my TT to the _WA 6 Special Edition _on this one - her soft and breathy vocals floating across the listening room with a decadence to die for! I'm feeling Woo-zy, in a dream like state just thinking about it...


----------



## jerico

skylab said:


> Here is a pair of Svetlana 6AS7G for comparison:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-Svetlana-6H5C-Winged-C-1960-ties-Lot-2-/200643644140
> 
> ...




Dude - Skylab, thanks for sending the SOS out to us! Very cool of you!
J


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks! Zzzzzzzzz. Jet Lag for sure. But not Let Jagged enough to check up on you guys.


 
  We need checking up on.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Feeling Woo-zy.
> 
> Just fixed my eyes on a Pre-Order: "The Shadow Of Your Smile" - Astrud Gilberto , 2 LP's 45 RPM 180 grams. Can't wait to pair my TT to the _WA 6 Special Edition _on this one - her soft and breathy vocals floating across the listening room with a decadence to die for! I'm feeling Woo-zy, in a dream like state just thinking about it...


 

 I don't have a single 45 and it is about time!


----------



## Silent One

_Skylab Reports..._
   
  An advisory that informs & educates? Now, that's value... thanks Skylab!


----------



## Skylab

So while we are at it, here is a quiz for you folks. Do you think the tubes in this auction are real British-made Mullards 6SN7's?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-NOS-NIB-National-MULLARD-6SN7GTB-NICE-QUAD-/110733228105


----------



## shipsupt

skylab said:


> So, while we are at it, here is a quiz for you folks. Do you think the tubes in this auction are real British-made Mullards 6SN7's?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-NOS-NIB-National-MULLARD-6SN7GTB-NICE-QUAD-/110733228105




Well, if I learned something from your earlier post.... I would be suspect since they are marked "Made in England" and not something to the effect of "Made in Britain".


----------



## Skylab

Right! Are they "Made in England"? Of course not! I pity the person who wins that auction, because you can buy that EXACT same tube, which is Russian made, for $3 each or less:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USSR-TUBES-6N8S-6SN7-Lot-2-NEW-/250678517684

On eBay it is tube buyer beware!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I don't have a single 45 and it is about time!


 

 There is a downside to 45 RPM LP's. Take this romantic vinyl record for example, the side would finish playing so quickly, it could threaten to disrupt the chemistry on the couch if one had to keep getting up to make a change!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Do you think you'll make the effort to for a few selected vinyl rips at 192 kHz or play all your vinyl records as is on the TT?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> So while we are at it, here is a quiz for you folks. Do you think the tubes in this auction are real British-made Mullards 6SN7's?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-NOS-NIB-National-MULLARD-6SN7GTB-NICE-QUAD-/110733228105


 

 Pop Quiz ~
   
  A resounding NO. (I'm voting with someone else's money)


----------



## Clayton SF

I was going to say that they look like Russian tubes and isn't National Electronics a Japanese Company?


----------



## Skylab

No, National was a US company but they were only a rebrander. They were acquired by Richardson Electronics, who also bought Cetron and some other companies in a late 80's consolidation of the remnants PF the tube making industry.


----------



## jc9394

A big thanks to Skylab... not sure you still remember or not, I traded you some tubes long time ago but never get around to use it until today.

I completed change all the tubes used on my WA22 to get a totally different sound to prepare my self to compare the GEC 6AS7G straight base and round base this weekend and to my surprise it sound crazy good with LCD-2. Any how the tubes are TS 5998, TS BGRP, and TS 5U4G. The surprise is the TS 5U4G, I need to find a back up...


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay, thanks. Boy--I know you have a veritable museum of vacuum tubes so your wisdom is much appreciated. Tell me: when did you buy your first vacuum tube that started your present collection? We all started at some point in time. My first vacuum tube purchase (that didn't come with the amp I bought) was in November of 2009. Actually my first tube amp was that same year.


----------



## Skylab

Well, technically I bought my first set of tubes in 1983. I was a senior in high school and my stereo was Van Alstine modified Dynaco amps - PAS3 preamp and Stereo 70 power amp. The combo must have used at least a dozen tubes!

But I really started collecting tubes in earnest about 3-4 years ago, when I went from a few dozen tubes to several hundred...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Oddly, they seem to have the Sylvania 312 manufacturer code on them, but there is no question that no one but Tung-Sol ever made the 5998 or the 2399.


 


  I've seen this pop up a few times and it really has made me wonder.  The hard and fast rule is that people take the manufacturer code as iron proof of who actually manufactured that tube, but here we see solid evidence that the code can't be used that reliably to ID a tube make.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Sometimes I think I might be the only person here who doesn't love the Tung Sol 5U4G.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I like the tube, but not as much as my Brimar 5R4GY and not nearly as much as my EML 274B.  The way the 5U4G images just doesn't work for me (too "front stage" on vocals and artificial feeling layering of instruments within the soundstage).


----------



## Skylab

Yeah we all have our preferences! I love the Tung Sol 5U4G and much preferred it to the Sophia Princess. it's my favorite 5 volt rectifier. Never heard the EML though.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah we all have our preferences! I love the Tung Sol 5U4G and much preferred it to the Sophia Princess. it's my favorite 5 volt rectifier. Never heard the EML though.


 


  Count me as a fan too of the TS 5U4G (borrowed a buddies last week). I'm also a fan of the Sylvania and Raytheon 5U4Gs. I did pick up a Sophia Princess on the F/S forum with low hours, hopefully I get it next week to give it a try.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have a Tung Sol 5V4G that I find very pleasant if I'm in the right mood for it.  Very focused sounding.  It's Achilles heel is poor bass otherwise I'd use it more.  A very pretty tube to light up too, it casts off a very intense glow and looks very jewel-esque in the dark.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> So while we are at it, here is a quiz for you folks. Do you think the tubes in this auction are real British-made Mullards 6SN7's?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-NOS-NIB-National-MULLARD-6SN7GTB-NICE-QUAD-/110733228105


 

 My vote is that they are brand new, recently made counterfit tubes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> There is a downside to 45 RPM LP's. Take this romantic vinyl record for example, the side would finish playing so quickly, it could threaten to disrupt the chemistry on the couch if one had to keep getting up to make a change!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Never ripped vinyl yet.  Would love to some day though, so would just prob play on the TT.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> There is a downside to 45 RPM LP's. Take this romantic vinyl record for example, the side would finish playing so quickly, it could threaten to disrupt the chemistry on the couch if one had to keep getting up to make a change!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's why they invented those spindles that drop records, yes? What were they called. _Kerplunk_--next 45! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stack 'em high!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's why they invented those spindles that drop records, yes? What were they called. _Kerplunk_--next 45!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I remember those. 
   
  How's the jet lag?  Glad to be home?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's why they invented those spindles that drop records, yes? What were they called. _Kerplunk_--next 45!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 True. I have a few but didn't think many used them in their TT's nowadays. But if your date is nearby and waiting, then by all means, let Astrud coo-taunt-tease her way into the night...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I remember those.
> How's the jet lag?  Glad to be home?


 
  I tell you: It was really great getting together with my Dutch friends. We'd chat about everything under the sun except tubes and headphone amps. So you can imagine how starved I was when I returned home to my amps. I've been trying to catch up on all the things that I missed when I was abroad. Home, Sweet Home is right. The next vacation must be planned with Head-Fi people in mind. I did, however, get together with _Deep Funk_ who knows his headphones very well. We sat drinking Belgian beer while discussing headphones. It was great putting a face to an Avatar. Oh, and the _La Chouffe_ was fantastic (het Belgische bier). Yummy!


----------



## jc9394

Battle of the kings...


----------



## Skylab

NICE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I place my money on the pair on the right


----------



## Clayton SF

That is really nice. Thank goodness they haven't figured out how to counterfeit decals because besides the unusual base, the innards do not look unique to me like the waffle ones do.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That is really nice. Thank goodness they haven't figured out how to counterfeit decals because besides the unusual base, the innards do not look unique to me like the waffle ones do.


 

 There actually are two: 
   
  1. There is a very unique structure to the plates in terms of the "bar" that runs across them - never seen that anywhere else
   
  2. The getter is totally unique - not clearly visible but it is a big round getter with a kind of star-shaped raised center.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> NICE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Will let you know early next week.  Both pair should be around the same hours ~100, it will be a hard one.


----------



## rmilewsk

Just received my WA22 about a week ago. I'm looking for some suggestions on good tube replacements. I use the audeze LCD2's.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rmilewsk said:


> Just received my WA22 about a week ago. I'm looking for some suggestions on good tube replacements. I use the audeze LCD2's.


 


  TS 5998
  TS BGRP, Brimar CV1988, and I do like the Treasure
  EML 5U4G mesh, TS 5U4G


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That is really nice. Thank goodness they haven't figured out how to counterfeit decals because besides the unusual base, the innards do not look unique to me like the waffle ones do.


 
   
  You'll be surprised!
  I have seen fake decals.
   
  Osram also make 6AS7G with a similar shape black base, not brown.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Dannie, is the problem recent?  Did you change headphones recently, or it worked fine before with the same headphones, and now doesn't?


 


 Hi Skylab, yes, it work well with the LCD-2 perfectly before but I hear distrrtion recently. I have it swapped to the Sylvania and they sound wonderful with the WA5LE, will let them stay in the amp one more night then swap back to the Mullard tomorrow see what will happen. I will try both HD800 and LCD-2 with them.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Can someone enlighten me as to the characteristic differences between 274Bs and 5U4Gs?


----------



## Skylab

dannie01 said:


> Hi Skylab, yes, it work well with the LCD-2 perfectly before but I hear distrrtion recently. I have it swapped to the Sylvania and they sound wonderful with the WA5LE, will let them stay in the amp one more night then swap back to the Millard tomorrow see what will happen. I will try both HD800 and LCD-2 with them.



In that case it is very likely the tubes are going bad. Do you have a tube tester? If not I would be willing to test them for you free of charge if you want to pay for round trip shipping.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> NICE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 X 2, a very nice pair, drool....................................


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> So while we are at it, here is a quiz for you folks. Do you think the tubes in this auction are real British-made Mullards 6SN7's?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-NOS-NIB-National-MULLARD-6SN7GTB-NICE-QUAD-/110733228105


 

 the flashings are a give-away; my guess is that they are russian 6H8C triodes. the smooth
  box plates are found in the russian versions as well. the good thing is that the 6H8C sound
  good imo. bad news is that they usually go for around $10 each.


----------



## Skylab

takezo said:


> the flashings are a give-away; my guess is that they are russian 6H8C triodes. the smooth
> box plates are found in the russian versions as well. the good thing is that the 6H8C sound
> good imo. bad news is that they usually go for around $10 each.



YUP. Unquestionably Russian 6H8C - and you can often get these for more like $3 each, NOS!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> In that case it is very likely the tubes are going bad. Do you have a tube tester? If not I would be willing to test them for you free of charge if you want to pay for round trip shipping.


 


  Thanks for the offer, Skylab. I will bring them to my friend who have a tube tester later. I really hope they are not going bad that fast, I only play them for some hundred of hours and they are so costly and sounding great.................................


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey all Wollies, I need you experts' advise, please.
> 
> I have problem with my pair of Mullard ECC32, I hear DISTORTION
> 
> ...


 

  

 unless you've done some modifications to the circuit, the ecc32 should be fine on your wa5le... you may have a bad set.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2, a very nice pair, drool....................................


 
   
  Danny, how are you doing buddy?  Sorry to heard you have issue with ECC32, that is so unfortunate.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





takezo said:


> unless you've done some modifications to the circuit, the ecc32 should be fine on your wa5le... you may have a bad set.


 


 Actually not modification, I did swap some better component like resistors and caps as what I was done in the WA6SE and WA22 but without changing value of them and the amp was working perfectly for months with the ECC32 no wonder why if they're going bad that fast........................


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> YUP. Unquestionably Russian 6H8C - and you can often get these for more like $3 each, NOS!


 


  that's a great price for a good sound tube. it's unfortunate scam artist are so prevalent on ebaay.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Actually not modification, I did swap some better component like resistors and caps as what I was done in the WA6SE and WA22 but without changing value of them and the amp was working perfectly for months with the ECC32 no wonder why if they're going bad that fast........................


 



 dannie, can you describe the "distortion" more specifically? does it sound like clipping or humming or white noise or mechanical like pinning or
  popping? does this distortion occur as soon as the amp is turned on or after several minutes?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





takezo said:


> dannie, can you describe the "distortion" more specifically? does it sound like clipping or humming or white noise or mechanical like pinning or
> popping? does this distortion occur as soon as the amp is turned on or after several minutes?


 

 takezo, it just like some clipping sound once the amp turned on for few minutes when I put on the LCD-2 (not hum or popping), no matter what kind of music I played with it.


----------



## takezo

does the clipping sound come and go, or is it continuous? does it get worse as the amp
  warms up or does it go away after awhile?


----------



## dannie01

It goes continuous but not get worse no matter when the amp is already warms up. I have tried to let it sound for almost an hr to see if it will go away but unfortunately not.


----------



## takezo

you really need a tube tester to test for shorts. but with shorts, the "noise" usually gets worse
  with time. i would recommend you try to use these tubes with another tube amp just to rule out
  your amp being the culprit.
   
  * another symptom for shorts is the gain of the output tubes will decrease. it will sound
  lower in volume and/or duller sound.
   
  if the sound is "crackling" it may be resistors going bad from high temp.


----------



## rosgr63

Danny try not to use a Hickok tester as they only test up to 0.25meg.
  A Sencore is best for shorts & leakages.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





takezo said:


> you really need a tube tester to test for shorts. but with shorts, the "noise" usually gets worse
> with time. i would recommend you try to use these tubes with another tube amp using the same
> 5v rectifiers just to rule out your amp being the culprit.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Danny try not to use a Hickok tester as they only test up to 0.25meg.
> A Sencore is best for shorts & leakages.


 


 Thanks for the advise, takezo and Stavros.


----------



## takezo

dannie, one last question: does the noise get worse when you play higher volume? does it change when you play at low volume? if so, your drivers are just plain bad. it may not even be a short.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





takezo said:


> dannie, one last question: does the noise get worse when you play higher volume? does it change when you play at low volume? if so, your drivers are just plain bad. it may not even be a short.


 

 Too bad, It will increase with higher the volume. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Your guess are right, takezo.
  
  Thanks anyway.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Too bad, It will increase with higher the volume.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  dannie, don't use the tubes anymore. it's on the verge of complete failure, and when it does it will take out other components, like the bias cap
  and resistors, as well.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





takezo said:


> dannie, don't use the tubes anymore. it's on the verge of complete failure, and when it does it will take out other components, like the bias cap
> and resistors, as well.


 


 OMG, that's mean you're not suggest I give it a try again, right? Anyway, I really enjoy it's sound with the WA5LE for the past months, RIP, the GEC 6AS7G....................


----------



## Skylab

I definitely would not use those ECC32 again until you have tested them...sure sounds like they are going bad.


----------



## rosgr63

Usually one section goes down first and then the other follows.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> OMG, that's mean you're not suggest I give it a try again, right? Anyway, I really enjoy it's sound with the WA5LE for the past months, RIP, the *GEC 6AS7G.*...................


 

 you can't use it with your WA5, I'm more than happy to adopt them.


----------



## musicman59

Guys,
I have the same issue like Danny but only when I use my HE-6 any other headphones in my collection sound wonderful.
Any idea why?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





rmilewsk said:


> Just received my WA22 about a week ago. I'm looking for some suggestions on good tube replacements. I use the audeze LCD2's.


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> TS 5998
> TS BGRP, Brimar CV1988, and I do like the Treasure
> EML 5U4G mesh, TS 5U4G


 


  I've tried a few of those tubes with my WA22, and with the Treasures at least I prefer the Sylvania 7236 and the Sophia Princess 274B. The TS BGRP and EML 5U4G are great tubes, but the WA22 is already pretty euphonic so I prefer a little more neutrality with the LCD-2. The bonus is that this combo works really well with other headphones. I looks like I will have my EML 274B for comparison today or tomorrow at the latest, Woohoo!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> OMG, that's mean you're not suggest I give it a try again, right? Anyway, I really enjoy it's sound with the WA5LE for the past months, RIP, the GEC 6AS7G....................


 



 And don't forget the WA5LE throws off a great deal of heat from the amp, that is one of the reasons why I like having the TSRPs in as the driver tubes, because of there tubes being small and not coke bottle shape.
  I also have found that keeping my man cave at 72 degrees and good air circulation keeps my WA5LE from getting hot.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Guys,
> I have the same issue like Danny but only when I use my HE-6 any other headphones in my collection sound wonderful.
> Any idea why?


 

 Yes as I have just said the WA5LE runs very hot, what I didn't say is hotter when you use the HE6's. Even though I use the low imp jack in my WA5LE.
   
  Although I have never heard what you guys are reporting using my HE6's, but then again I do keep a eye on the temp of my WA5LE and tube size.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Guys,
> I have the same issue like Danny but only when I use my HE-6 any other headphones in my collection sound wonderful.
> Any idea why?


 

 the he6 pulls a lot of power, so the weakest link, the drivers in dannies case,
  can't handle it, hence abnormal performance.
   
  i would check your drivers and power tubes with a tube tester. if you don't have that,
  try other sets of tubes and go thru the process of elimination.


----------



## jc9394

takezo said:


> the he6 pulls a lot of power, so the weakest link, the drivers in dannies case,
> can't handle it, hence abnormal performance.
> 
> i would check your drivers and power tubes with a tube tester. if you don't have that,
> try other sets of tubes and go thru the process of elimination.




I believe Danny is using LCD-2, not HE6. Does LCD-2 draws as much power?


----------



## takezo

no, the he6 draws more, but the lcd2 rev2 is harder to drive than most dynamic cans.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I believe Danny is using LCD-2, not HE6. Does LCD-2 draws as much power?


 

 The LCD-2 is more efficient:
   
  LCD-2: 91dB
  HE-6: 83.5dB


----------



## jc9394

takezo said:


> no, the he6 draws more, but the lcd2 rev2 is harder to drive than most dynamic cans.




Is LCD-2 r1 draws the same power as r2? I'm worry on the tubes I'm using.


----------



## jc9394

skylab said:


> That's the thing...these are not "fakes", so the printing can look great.  They were almost certainly marketed by the companies whose imprint appears - which is NOT Brimar or Mullard.  There were, toward the end of the tube heyday, lots of tubes that said "Made in England" that were not.  In fact, as I understand it, the presence of the word "England" is problematic in and of itself, as real British tubes said exactly that - "Made In Britain" or "British Made", not "Made in England".  And the National Electronics pair doesn't even say that on them at all!  The "problem" that seller has is he is representing them to be Brimar or Mullard made, when the tubes don't say that, and he is wrong about it.  And he took the one pair of tubes that is marked England improperly and then extrapolates that to the National pair!  A comedy of errors.  Hard to say if the seller is devious, or just ignorant.




Most of the Brimar I come across said "Made in England", does that means they are fake?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLTONE-BRIMAR-6SN7-GT-NOS-TESTED-EXTREMELY-RARE-/110676083876?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19c4cf04a4#ht_2004wt_689


----------



## Skylab

Those certainly look legitimate to me, but I am not familiar with that brand. But they look like Brimars to me.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Is LCD-2 r1 draws the same power as r2? I'm worry on the tubes I'm using.


 


  to my ears the rev1 is easier to power than the rev2, but i don't know if the sensitivity is different.


----------



## jc9394

skylab said:


> Those certainly look legitimate to me, but I am not familiar with that brand. But they look like Brimars to me.




Just checked on my CV1988, it does said "Made in England".


----------



## jc9394

takezo said:


> to my ears the rev1 is easier to power than the rev2, but i don't know if the sensitivity is different.




Good to know, still thinking to sell my r1 to try r2.


----------



## jc9394

Sorry for the multiple posts, multiple quote on iPad is not friendly.

Does anyone notice 6F8G's price went up a lot? $270 for TS? I think I paid just over $100 for a pair last year. Oh well, probably can't afford National Union any,ore.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sorry for the multiple posts, multiple quote on iPad is not friendly.
> 
> Does anyone notice 6F8G's price went up a lot? $270 for TS? I think I paid just over $100 for a pair last year. Oh well, probably can't afford National Union any,ore.


 

 Wow. I paid $45 for 1944 Raytheon quads 2 years ago. Well those aren't TS though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sorry for the multiple posts, multiple quote on iPad is not friendly.
> 
> Does anyone notice 6F8G's price went up a lot? $270 for TS? I think I paid just over $100 for a pair last year. Oh well, probably can't afford National Union any,ore.


 


  Just last autumn when you all got me interested in the TS-BGRP (6SN7), I watched and winced as the bull ran through the China shop. Then cleverly, some of you went the 6F8G route with TS. By the time I asked a few questions, the bull had left that China shop in ruins as well!


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Can someone enlighten me as to the characteristic differences between 274Bs and 5U4Gs?


 
  Hey guys, I think this got lost in the shuffle a few pages can. Can anyone answer it? Thanks  I'm trying to learn about tube rolling and I've gotta start somewhere haha


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Most of the Brimar I come across said "Made in England", does that means they are fake?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLTONE-BRIMAR-6SN7-GT-NOS-TESTED-EXTREMELY-RARE-/110676083876?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19c4cf04a4#ht_2004wt_689


 


  They don't look fake but the price is ................


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





takezo said:


> the he6 pulls a lot of power, so the weakest link, the drivers in dannies case,
> can't handle it, hence abnormal performance.
> 
> i would check your drivers and power tubes with a tube tester. if you don't have that,
> try other sets of tubes and go thru the process of elimination.


 


  I have two pairs of Mullard ECC32 (brown base and black base). Both pair behave the same with the HE-6 only. Most of my 6SN7 work fine with the exception of one pair I think but I don't remember which one right now. It is just strange to me that I can get such a wonderful sound out of the EML 300B/ECC32/EML 5U4G combination with any dynamic headphones in my collection but can not drive properly the HE-6 but if I go EML 300B/6SN7/EML 5U4G combination they sound right


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hey guys, I think this got lost in the shuffle a few pages can. Can anyone answer it? Thanks  I'm trying to learn about tube rolling and I've gotta start somewhere haha


 

 I've not tried very many. However, on page 871 (22 Aug 2011) me and another member shared our views on the EML 5U4G & Sophia Princess 274B rectifiers (see photo below). Also, a 'search' (at top of page) could return results while waiting for other members to weigh-in Saturday...


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Most of the Brimar I come across said "Made in England", does that means they are fake?


 
   
  No, it doesn't. "Made in England" commonly appears on true Brimars. (MOVs, too.)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> They don't look fake but the price is ................


 
  LOL


----------



## Skylab

oskari said:


> No, it doesn't. "Made in England" commonly appears on true Brimars. (MOVs, too.)



Interesting. I just looked at a bunch of my Brimars. The military-marked tubes like CV1988 and CV1985 do not contain any country of manufacture labeling. Some of my commercial marked Brimars also do not, but I did find "Made in England" on one pair of CV4004. I had actually wondered based on that if these were in fact fakes, although the internals looked right. Perhaps they are fine.

I am quite sure, however, that MULLARD did not use "Made in England". Real Mullard are "Made in Great Britain" or "British Made".

Regarding 6F8G's, you would be horrified to learn that I bought my first pair of TS BGRP 6F8G for $10 each


----------



## jc9394

skylab said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > No, it doesn't. "Made in England" commonly appears on true Brimars. (MOVs, too.)
> ...




250x in return, wish those are my stocks...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> you can't use it with your WA5, I'm more than happy to adopt them.


 

  Oops, I mean Mullard ECC32 instead of GEC 6AS7G.......................................


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Is LCD-2 r1 draws the same power as r2? I'm worry on the tubes I'm using.


 

  Oh, I almost forgot that factor, I have no problem with the r1 but distortion in r2. Thanks for your remind, jc.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have two pairs of Mullard ECC32 (brown base and black base). Both pair behave the same with the HE-6 only. Most of my 6SN7 work fine with the exception of one pair I think but I don't remember which one right now. It is just strange to me that I can get such a wonderful sound out of the EML 300B/ECC32/EML 5U4G combination with any dynamic headphones in my collection but can not drive properly the HE-6 but if I go EML 300B/6SN7/EML 5U4G combination they sound right


 



 it would help to know the operating specs of your wa5le, but wooaudio doesn't publish them. you'd have to go in an measure them yourself...
  if your tubes measure fine with a tube tester, i would contact jack and inquire directly.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Interesting. I just looked at a bunch of my Brimars. The military-marked tubes like CV1988 and CV1985 do not contain any country of manufacture labeling. Some of my commercial marked Brimars also do not, but I did find "Made in England" on one pair of CV4004. I had actually wondered based on that if these were in fact fakes, although the internals looked right. Perhaps they are fine.
> 
> I am quite sure, however, that MULLARD did not use "Made in England". Real Mullard are "Made in Great Britain" or "British Made".
> 
> Regarding 6F8G's, you would be horrified to learn that I bought my first pair of TS BGRP 6F8G for $10 each


 



 nice price on the roundplates. i picked up a dozen of the octal roundplates for $5 each two years ago. but they are all 12sn7gt tungsols.
  one of these days i'll have to modify my wa6 to double the heater voltage.


----------



## dannie01

I found these pair of Fivre 6SN7 and Brimar/ITT marked CV181 for sale in a local forum, does anyone try them and any comment would appreciate, the Fivre cost about US170/pair and Brimar/ITT cost about US200.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

Dannie01! How in the world do you ever happen upon these? They look great. (I bet they sound great, too.)


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Oh, I almost forgot that factor, I have no problem with the r1 but distortion in r2. Thanks for your remind, jc.




I thought r2 is easier to drive than r1. How does they compare? I'm thinking selling r1 to get r2.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I thought r2 is easier to drive than r1. How does they compare? I'm thinking selling r1 to get r2.


 

  I bought the r2 based on those reviews here in Head-Fi  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Actually, the r2 are more open, airy, detail and noticable especially in highs, not as dark as the r1. I love them both but have to let one go very soon, it should be the r1.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Dannie01! How in the world do you ever happen upon these? They look great. (I bet they sound great, too.)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I thought r2 is easier to drive than r1. How does they compare? I'm thinking selling r1 to get r2.


 


   


  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I bought the r2 based on those reviews here in Head-Fi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I had the r1, and now I have an r2 and I second what dannie says.  Also, imaging seems more solid and pinpoint like.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I thought r2 is easier to drive than r1. How does they compare? I'm thinking selling r1 to get r2.


 


  The R2 takes a little more on my volume knob to volume match to the R1. So I guess the R1 is slightly more efficient.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The R2 takes a little more on my volume knob to volume match to the R1. So I guess the R1 is slightly more efficient.


 
   
  All things considered...

 Do you and jc9394 share the same tube combo?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> All things considered...
> 
> Do you and jc9394 share the same tube combo?


 

 We both have WA22s.


----------



## grokit

I got my EML 274B mesh plate in and and pretty much as I expected, it has a lot more in common with the Sophia Princess 274B than it does with the EML 5U4G. Listening to it with the HD800, first impressions are that I like it better than the Sophia. It seems like it has a little more depth with the same pinpoint imaging and crystal clarity that I have grown to love. So I got pretty much what I was hoping for but time will tell. I will leave the EML in for a while now with the Princess as a backup. Need to roll in the back-up Treasures next, life is good in WA22 land.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I got my EML 274B mesh plate in and and pretty much as I expected, it has a lot more in common with the Sophia Princess 274B than it does with the EML 5U4G. Listening to it with the HD800, first impressions are that I like it better than the Sophia. It seems like it has a little more depth with the same pinpoint imaging and crystal clarity that I have grown to love. So I got pretty much what I was hoping for but time will tell. I will leave the EML in for a while now with the Princess as a backup. *Need to roll in the back-up Treasures next*, life is good in WA22 land.


 
   
   
   

   
   
   
   

  I got the Shuguang Treasures yesterday and really like their clean presentation. I was surprised on how much the bass improved with them too (deeper, a bit more impact and control). The mids are crystal clear with great imaging. Next week, hopefully my Sophia Princess mesh plate arrives and I'll give it a try.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> We both have WA22s.


 


  Perhaps, I may have overlooked something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In following this discussion, I see that you both have a '22' in common along with LCD-2's - spec r.1 & r.2. If your tube combo matches as well, could the difference in position on the volume pot be due to caps or other internals?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I got my EML 274B mesh plate in and and pretty much as I expected, it has a lot more in common with the Sophia Princess 274B than it does with the EML 5U4G. Listening to it with the HD800, first impressions are that I like it better than the Sophia. It seems like it has a little more depth with the same pinpoint imaging and crystal clarity that I have grown to love. So I got pretty much what I was hoping for but time will tell. I will leave the EML in for a while now with the Princess as a backup. Need to roll in the back-up Treasures next, life is good in WA22 land.


 
   
   
   

   
   
   
   


 Having an extended session tonight, are we?! Congrats! I'm shooting for a 12 hour session off/on myself - rolling 7 pairs of 6SN7 tubes against the likes of Al Jarreau, Angela Bofill, Candi Staton, Abraham Laboriel, Ella Fitzgerald, Astrud Gilberto, Phyllis Hyman, Weather Report, Thelonious Monk, B.B.King and more for quick samples...


----------



## cifani090

WE NEED MORE PICTURES IN THIS THREAD! I came here to look at some beauty!


----------



## Silent One

Agreed. It's the weekend... let's get 'em up!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Having an extended session tonight, are we?! Congrats! I'm shooting for a 12 hour session off/on myself - rolling 7 pairs of 6SN7 tubes against the likes of Al Jarreau, Angela Bofill, Candi Staton, Abraham Laboriel, Ella Fitzgerald, Astrud Gilberto, Phyllis Hyman, Weather Report, Thelonious Monk, B.B.King and more for quick samples...


 






   

   
  Not until later, I have some stuff to do first. But a recent addition to my library is Real Gone's re-issue/re-masters of Sun Ra's "Three Classic Albums: Jazz by Sun Ra, Supersonic Jazz and Jazz in Silhouette" from the late 1950's so I am looking forward to that. Early impressions of the EML was with some material I am already pretty familiar with out of the HD800, some of my better Grateful Dead and Ben Harper recordings. So far so good!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Not until later, I have some stuff to do first. But a recent addition to my library is Real Gone's re-issue/re-masters of Sun Ra's "Three Classic Albums: Jazz by Sun Ra, Supersonic Jazz and Jazz in Silhouette" from the late 1950's so I am looking forward to that. Early impressions of the EML was with some material I am already pretty familiar with out of the HD800, some of my better Grateful Dead and Ben Harper recordings. So far so good!


 

 ___________________________________________
   
_By all appearances, your weekend looks very satisfying..._


----------



## Silent One

Tube diagnosis ~
   
  Just swapped in another pair of 6SN7's. The left tube not outputting sound. Removing the hp jack halfway out, sound moves from right channel to left channel. Next up, will shut amp down and reverse tubes. Potentially a bad tube? Don't want to 'cycle' my amp, so I'll shop online for power conditioning solutions in the mean time...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I got my EML 274B mesh plate in and and pretty much as I expected, it has a lot more in common with the Sophia Princess 274B than it does with the EML 5U4G. Listening to it with the HD800, first impressions are that I like it better than the Sophia. It seems like it has a little more depth with the same pinpoint imaging and crystal clarity that I have grown to love. So I got pretty much what I was hoping for but time will tell. I will leave the EML in for a while now with the Princess as a backup. Need to roll in the back-up Treasures next, life is good in WA22 land.


 
   

   
   

  A detailed write-up on the differences between the EML 274B and EML 5U4G would make for a very enjoyable read if you feel inclined.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tube diagnosis ~
> 
> Just swapped in another pair of 6SN7's. The left tube not outputting sound. Removing the hp jack halfway out, sound moves from right channel to left channel. Next up, will shut amp down and reverse tubes. Potentially a bad tube? Don't want to 'cycle' my amp, so I'll shop online for power conditioning solutions in the mean time...


 

 Either that or you had bad contact on one of the tube's pins.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Either that or you had bad contact on one of the tube's pins.


 


  I'm poised to try it again in 15 minutes.. thanks! Trying for quick samples among 7 pairs before sunrise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Then will set out for extended play and evaluations on Monday.
   
   
Sylvania
Short-base Yellow label;  GTA Green label '51; WGTA Tall bottle Green label 3-holes
   
RCA
Gray Glass
   
GE
GTB
   
ITT
GTB
   
Baldwin
GTB


----------



## Silent One

Hmmm, re-seated adapter into same channel (left) without reinserting tube inside adapter to no success. Keeping tubes inside their respective adapters and swapping resolved the issue... but strangely. On with the show!


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tube diagnosis ~
> 
> Just swapped in another pair of 6SN7's. The left tube not outputting sound. Removing the hp jack halfway out, sound moves from right channel to left channel. Next up, will shut amp down and reverse tubes. Potentially a bad tube? Don't want to 'cycle' my amp, so I'll shop online for power conditioning solutions in the mean time...


 
  Can you explain what cycling is and why it's bad for the amp?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm, re-seated adapter into same channel (left) without reinserting tube inside adapter to no success. Keeping tubes inside their respective adapters and swapping resolved the issue... but strangely. On with the show!


 


  I had this problem once.  Turned out the trouble was the diameter of one of the pins on a particular tube was slightly smaller than the others and was causing bad contact when used in a particular socket.  The other adapters' pin socket gripped a bit more tightly and thus the tube would work in that one adapter.  What was more weird was the problem seemed to worsen, but Glenn was kind enough to replace the adapter in question with one using different sockets.  These grip more strongly and permanently cured the issue for me.  The tube in question was a Sylvania Bad Boy tube so I was pretty keen on making it work properly at the time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Can you explain what cycling is and why it's bad for the amp?


 

 He means power cycling.  Warming up and cooling down tubes is hard on them and is a major contributor to shortening their working lifespan.  So, it's not a good idea to turn the amp on then turn it right back off a few minutes later.  Likewise if the amp has been on, after turning it off you should wait at least 30 minutes before powering it back on again to let everything cool down properly.  Tubes are very temperature sensitive devices.
   
  One other important point that doesn't get talked about enough:  if you insert a different rectifier or set of power tubes it is very important that ALL the tubes are fully cool before turning the amp on.  Tubes operate different warm than when cold, so if one tube is cold and the others are already hot (or vise versa) the difference in operating voltages can cause the tube to arc and fry itself.  I know at least one person here has toasted a rectifier this way.


----------



## rosgr63

Deoxit Gold might help sometimes


----------



## Silent One

Great assist Xcalibur255! Sorry that I didn't return in time to answer your questions, grmnasasin0227... but we've really good support here. rosgr63, Deoxit is my go-to stuff but pretty much out of the Red & Gold, so I skipped a stage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At this writing, I'm just a few hours away from completing a preliminary run with 3 pairs remaining and already two surprises. The first surprise was pleasant and expected. The second surprise was totally unexpected and equally pleasant. Expected: RCA Gray Glass. Unexpected: Sylvania Short Base! Remaining tubes to trial this morning: ITT; Baldwin & GE GTB's. 
   
  Merely making observations for now, notes and additional sessions to come later..._ like  w-a-y  next week!_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> WE NEED MORE PICTURES IN THIS THREAD! I came here to look at some beauty!


 
   
   
  WA6 -- 5Z4G Brimar rectifier, 6EW7 GE cleartops:


   
   
   
  WA2 with Black Gate Caps and ELMA Goldpoint stepped attenuator:
   

   
   
  WA22 -- 5U4G EML solid plate rectifier:


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MacedonianHero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I got the *Shuguang Treasures *yesterday and really like their clean presentation. I was surprised on how much the bass improved with them too (deeper, a bit more impact and control). The mids are crystal clear with great imaging. Next week, hopefully my Sophia Princess mesh plate arrives and I'll give it a try.


 
   
  Would you mind to post some pics of the Shuguang Treasures? Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Let's see, I've got the NY Times Sunday Edition; Clayton's Woo Audio Amps Sunday Edition... I'm all set!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  By the way, whatever became of the PS Audio re-generator that crashed before you crossed the Pond?


----------



## Clayton SF

Well I unplugged it from the wall outlet to get it ready to ship it back for repairs. Then after 3 days I decided to plug it back in to check it to make sure that the zones that were dead were still dead--I hate shipping a 3-ton boat anchor back for repairs only to have the repair people email me back to say "It works fine for us." Well guess what. The dead zones returned and it has continued to operate flawlessly ever since. You know I did unplug it the first time for 5 minutes but perhaps it had to have more time to reset itself.
   
  I really don't know what shut down Zone1 and Zone 2 in the first place. Perhaps too many amps running at the same time? Naw. It's run with that setup for the last year or so.
   
  All is well in Wooville, Plaza di Cavalli, and Lebenの広場.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well I unplugged it from the wall outlet to get it ready to ship it back for repairs. Then after 3 days I decided to plug it back in to check it to make sure that the zones that were dead were still dead--I hate shipping a 3-ton boat anchor back for repairs only to have the repair people email me back to say "It works fine for us." Well guess what. The dead zones returned and it has continued to operate flawlessly ever since. You know I did unplug it the first time for 5 minutes but perhaps it had to have more time to reset itself.
> 
> I really don't know what shut down Zone1 and Zone 2 in the first place. Perhaps too many amps running at the same time? Naw. It's run with that setup for the last year or so.
> 
> All is well in Wooville, Plaza di Cavalli, and Lebenの広場.


 


  Your building may have experienced a power surge / power drop and the unit went into 'protection mode.' Great news that you can keep an anchor Bay side where it belongs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I just finished a 14 hour session and headed to bed before 0800 hours, but not before shopping for just a few more power conditioners.
   
  Post Script . : You've artistic flair with destinations...


----------



## Clayton SF

Silent One: Your current avatar,
  (here it is just in case you
  change it an no one knows
  what I am referring to):
   

  is a Grand Torii.
   
  As in Decware Torii MKIII and
  Mini Torii SE-X (as in Special Edition, X-Transformer).


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I found these pair of Fivre 6SN7 and Brimar/ITT marked CV181 for sale in a local forum, does anyone try them and any comment would appreciate, the Fivre cost about US170/pair and Brimar/ITT cost about US200.
> 
> Thanks


 

  
  Hi Dannie, I have a pair of brown base Fivre 6SN7s with similar plate structures in your pic, and while I'm not sure if there is a difference between the black base and brown base, I feel the Fivres are like souped-up Brimars, especially in the midrange. I was not too impressed with my early 60's brown-base Brimars, they were nice but I didn't really feel the midrange was as good as claimed. But the brown-base Fivres were simply outstanding in this area. It is now my favourite tube together with the TS BGRP and Mullard ECC32.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Silent One: Your current avatar,
> (here it is just in case you
> change it an no one knows
> what I am referring to):
> ...


 


  Thanks kindly, Clayton. It looks Grand indeed!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Hi Dannie, I have a pair of brown base Fivre 6SN7s with similar plate structures in your pic, and while I'm not sure if there is a difference between the black base and brown base, I feel the Fivres are like souped-up Brimars, especially in the midrange. I was not too impressed with my early 60's brown-base Brimars, they were nice but I didn't really feel the midrange was as good as claimed. But the brown-base Fivres were simply outstanding in this area. It is now my favourite tube together with the TS BGRP and Mullard ECC32.


 

 Thanks for the input, kchew. I may re-consider to get them or not since I do own a pair of Brimar and love them very much so wanna to get a pair of Fivres that claimed as good as the Brimar.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> WA6 -- 5Z4G Brimar rectifier, 6EW7 GE cleartops:
> 
> WA2 with Black Gate Caps and ELMA Goldpoint stepped attenuator:
> 
> WA22 -- 5U4G EML solid plate rectifier:


 

 It looks like in the 3rd picture that your whole room is tube gear. Any night tube ****?


----------



## grmnasasin0227

From what I can see, most manufacturers of rectifier tubes make both mesh and solid plates. What's the difference between these? Price, sound characteristic, etc.?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> It looks like in the 3rd picture that your whole room is tube gear. Any night tube ****?


 

 I have tried night shots of my tube system to no avail. Or at least they do not turn out as great as some of the other members' photos. I lack the proper equipment and a tripod. Although I have propped my camera on a box at times. My system is constantly changing. I amp roll rather than tube roll. I switch amps around every month or so. But here are a couple of photos which shows some of my tube amps. And there is always a Woo Audio amp somewhere in the system. Can't live without 'em.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very nice pictures ClaytonSF.  I see both the 6EW7 and 6SN7 in your photos are British made tubes.  Very cool, and probably very rare too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have tried night shots of my tube system to no avail. Or at least they do not turn out as great as some of the other members' photos. I lack the proper equipment and a tripod. Although I have propped my camera on a box at times. My system is constantly changing. I amp roll rather than tube roll. I switch amps around every month or so. But here are a couple of photos which shows some of my tube amps. And there is always a Woo Audio amp somewhere in the system. Can't live without 'em.


 


  The Right Stuff ~
   
  Clayton SF has the tube tester and reference material at-the-ready, completing the room with _the right stuff..._


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have tried night shots of my tube system to no avail. Or at least they do not turn out as great as some of the other members' photos. I lack the proper equipment and a tripod. Although I have propped my camera on a box at times. My system is constantly changing. I amp roll rather than tube roll. I switch amps around every month or so. But here are a couple of photos which shows some of my tube amps. And there is always a Woo Audio amp somewhere in the system. Can't live without 'em.


 

 Nice! Very efficient Zu speakers, and tubes i bet sound absolutely musical!


----------



## grokit

Quote:  





> A detailed write-up on the differences between the EML 274B and EML 5U4G would make for a very enjoyable read if you feel inclined.


 
   
   
  As I traded the EML 5U4G for the EML 274B, a detailed write-up will be problematic since I don't have it the 5U4G hand for A/B and frankly wasn't listening to it much after it blew out and was replaced leading up to that trade. After some time with the new EML I should be able to make a decent comparison to the Sophia Princes. Who knows, if another used EML comes up for sale I might snag it and then I would have all three available for more of a direct comparison. Even then direct A/B is problematic because of the afore-mentioned "power cycling time", but a more in-depth comparison will be possible after some real listening time with all of them.
   
  Did that even make any sense? The bottom line is that I will be briefly expanding upon my recent thoughts soon based upon some more time with the new EML and my memory of the old one, and a more detailed two or three-way comparison should be forthcoming some time later, at least between the Sophia and EML 274Bs, and perhaps with the 5U4G as well if I get another one. Going to get some real listening time in today, have a nice lineup of Putamayo, Sun-Ra, and Duke Ellington along with the usual bluesy jazz rock.
   

   
   
   
   Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


> Would you mind to post some pics of the Shuguang Treasures? Thanks.



   
  Here you go:
   

  Old ones removed
   

  New ones in, plus the EML 274B


----------



## Xcalibur255

I see the 274B got re-designed like the 5U4G did.  Mine is a bit bigger, and the the place where the glass curves up before metting the "cap" forms a wider and flatter shelf so to speak.  Supposedly the plates are a bit longer now and they sound even better than the one I have.
   
  I, for one, won't be finding out until my current one dies......... which hopefully will not be for a while still.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> As I traded the EML 5U4G for the EML 274B, a detailed write-up will be problematic since I don't have it the 5U4G hand for A/B and frankly wasn't listening to it much after it blew out and was replaced leading up to that trade. After some time with the new EML I should be able to make a decent comparison to the Sophia Princes. Who knows, if another used EML comes up for sale I might snag it and then I would have all three available for more of a direct comparison. Even then direct A/B is problematic because of the afore-mentioned "power cycling time", but a more in-depth comparison will be possible after some real listening time with all of them.
> 
> Did that even make any sense? The bottom line is that I will be briefly expanding upon my recent thoughts soon based upon some more time with the new EML and my memory of the old one, and a more detailed two or three-way comparison should be forthcoming some time later, at least between the Sophia and EML 274Bs, and perhaps with the 5U4G as well if I get another one. Going to get some real listening time in today, have a nice lineup of Putamayo, Sun-Ra, and Duke Ellington along with the usual bluesy jazz rock.


 
   
   Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


> Would you mind to post some pics of the Shuguang Treasures? Thanks.



   
  Here you go:
   

  Old ones removed
   

  New ones in, plus the EML 274B


   
  ________________________
   
  Shugg's looking a bit rich! Would love to hear them soon... nice photographs!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I see the 274B got re-designed like the 5U4G did.  Mine is a bit bigger, and the the place where the glass curves up before metting the "cap" forms a wider and flatter shelf so to speak.  Supposedly the plates are a bit longer now and they sound even better than the one I have.
> 
> I, for one, won't be finding out until my current one dies......... which hopefully will not be for a while still.


 

  
  Power-cycling-time . :
   
  Grokit's mention of 'power cycling time' comes on the heels of my listening session that concluded this morning. After being in-session for 14 hours (1600 hrs/Sat - 0600 hrs/Sun) to simply get a quick overview of 7 tube pairings, I have a new (deep) appreciation for your write-ups on tubes, past & present, Xcalibur255. And others here who have done the same as well. I was never flushed with 7 or more pairs of tubes at a time, so the experience escaped me.
   
  I now have them prioritized and the most pleasing will get the most time atop the Woo throughout the week; will begin taking notes this time around. Hope to share some thoughts (what I think I heard) before I sell something (joking, but only for a limited time...!)


----------



## Clayton SF

Are you saying that you've listened to seven pairs of tubes in 14 hours? Does that translate to an hour for each pair and an hour between pairs? Marathon Man!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Perhaps, I may have overlooked something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not sure about the tubes, but not sure if you are aware that *I had both the R1 and R2s on hand AT THE SAME TIME.*
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos/16455#post_7667906
   
  Thus my comment for turning up the volume on my amp for the R2s to volume match to my now sold R1s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Not sure why it even matters whether our amps or tubes match?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Are you saying that you've listened to seven pairs of tubes in 14 hours? Does that translate to an hour for each pair and an hour between pairs? Marathon Man!


 

 Yes. Initially planed on running through just a few and then resume the madness later tonight. And then I tripped over 'Curiosity!' _"Just one more pair before calling it quits..."_




   
  I was pleasantly surprised by a tube or tube. 
   
  Post Script:  Actually, since I've respect for Accounting, a few pairs did not make a full hour of play time. And those that were more worthy got their own time in and more. After all, it was a Friday Night session and I needed my music to swing!


----------



## Clayton SF

LCD-2 or HE-6--I have heard neither. Is the HE-6 something to consider as well despite the LCD-2 being all the rage at this moment? I need to write down 5 headphones on a dartboard and just pick one that way.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Halp!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Power-cycling-time . :
> 
> Grokit's mention of 'power cycling time' comes on the heels of my listening session that concluded this morning. After being in-session for 14 hours (1600 hrs/Sat - 0600 hrs/Sun) to simply get a quick overview of 7 tube pairings, I have a new (deep) appreciation for your write-ups on tubes, past & present, Xcalibur255. And others here who have done the same as well. I was never flushed with 7 or more pairs of tubes at a time, so the experience escaped me.
> 
> I now have them prioritized and the most pleasing will get the most time atop the Woo throughout the week; will begin taking notes this time around. Hope to share some thoughts (what I think I heard) before I sell something (joking, but only for a limited time...!)


 

 The most interesting thing about comparisons is that the impressions don't stay static.  As I revisit tubes I haven't heard in a while I often find my opinion changing.  A lot of it has to do with what you just switched *from* which will naturally color your perception, along with mood and a bunch of other things.
   
  Case in point, I never took a liking to the Brimar clearglass 6SN7GTY and ranted about it as such.  I had them in the amp tonight (sadly, my beloved Sylvanias had to come out due to unfortunate circumstances) and found most of what I listened to very enjoyable.  They presented with a deep revealing midrange and sense of depth I don't recall hearing from them in the past.  It sometimes makes me wonder if tube impressions can be trusted to any reliable degree given so many variables, but for me at least I simply enjoying reading them regardless of their factual value.  There is a certain excitement to hearing a new tube and its presentation for the first time and the desire to share it is naturally part of that excitement.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Right Stuff ~
> 
> Clayton SF has the tube tester and reference material at-the-ready, completing the room with _the right stuff..._


 


      Quote:


cifani090 said:


> Nice! Very efficient Zu speakers, and tubes i bet sound absolutely musical!


 


 X 2. Very nice set-up indeed and the Zu speakers look beautiful, impressive.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, grokit.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2. Very nice set-up indeed and the Zu speakers look beautiful, impressive.


 
   
  Thanks. Do you have a speaker system? There are two people responsible for getting me into this wonderful hobby. It's you and Seamaster. I wonder what he's been up to. He was the one that "made me" get the WA22. I remember seeing his post and photo of his new WA22 with a whiskey bottle. I was sold then. I think it was a whiskey bottle.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/451678/wa22-let-s-roll-some-tubes-done-mod-burnning-in/45#post_6220892


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> LCD-2 or HE-6--I have heard neither. Is the HE-6 something to consider as well despite the LCD-2 being all the rage at this moment? I need to write down 5 headphones on a dartboard and just pick one that way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The only reason's why the LCD2 are all the rage, is because there are only a few amp's that can drive the HE-6's and of course the price.
   
  You now have one of those very few amps that can make the HE6's stand on there head and spit nickels, Oh and did I say sound fantastic also.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks. Do you have a speaker system? There are two people responsible for getting me into this wonderful hobby. It's you and Seamaster. I wonder what he's been up to. He was the one that "made me" get the WA22. I remember seeing his post and photo of his new WA22 with a whiskey bottle. I was sold then. I think it was a whiskey bottle.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/451678/wa22-let-s-roll-some-tubes-done-mod-burnning-in/45#post_6220892


 

 You are very welcome my friend, we all here to help each other to spend their hard earn money easily .
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yup, I started to play with 2 ch system recently with vinyl, of course all are cheapy stuffs but I do enjoy the music very much. In early time of this month, I was pensioned by my friend (as I just mention, all your friends will help you to spend your $ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and bought a set of antique Naim pre amp NAC 42.5 with mm phone cards installed, Nap 110 power amp system through Ebay UK to drive my PMC TB2 which I put them aside for years. The vinyl is the very reasonable TT by Project 1 Impression III Classic and with my other sources of Linn Akurate DS and Oppo BDP-95.
   
  The music from the vinyl is what I missed for many years, it is not like the hi-res files reproduced from Linn but the analog sound is really amazing. Will post pic later tonight.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> WE NEED MORE PICTURES IN THIS THREAD! I came here to look at some beauty!


 

 Be the change you want to see.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Be the change you want to see.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 

 I may have a picture or two to post on Tuesday (that was a real tongue twister).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The most interesting thing about comparisons is that the impressions don't stay static.  As I revisit tubes I haven't heard in a while I often find my opinion changing.  A lot of it has to do with what you just switched *from* which will naturally color your perception, along with mood and a bunch of other things.
> 
> Case in point, I never took a liking to the Brimar clearglass 6SN7GTY and ranted about it as such.  I had them in the amp tonight (sadly, my beloved Sylvanias had to come out due to unfortunate circumstances) and found most of what I listened to very enjoyable.  They presented with a deep revealing midrange and sense of depth I don't recall hearing from them in the past.  It sometimes makes me wonder if tube impressions can be trusted to any reliable degree given so many variables, but for me at least I simply enjoying reading them regardless of their factual value.  There is a certain excitement to hearing a new tube and its presentation for the first time and the desire to share it is naturally part of that excitement.


 

 Ah, now you understand the importance the role a Spokesperson plays in times of accidents; disasters and other sensitive matters in the public arena. Our emotional state will determine our ability to perceive and process (exposing companies or ourselves to potential liability). We've all seen/heard witnesses post accidents, shaken, full of fear, sharing their experiences with us. Understanding context helps, as well as getting another point of view. Sharing our experiences really advances this hobby where so much of our thoughts and feelings can keep us stagnant or growing. 
   
  I often pay attention to my emotional state when I read & write. When I'm in-session evaluating stuff, I'm taking notes anyway and will make a journal entry about what I'm feeling emotionally for reference. Looking back is ALWAYS fascinating. Often times, when I notice I'm feeling really good and my senses are heightened, I'll make the effort to review a song, tweak, cables & accessories inside the listening room. And will discovered I have missed something...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Not sure about the tubes, but not sure if you are aware that *I had both the R1 and R2s on hand AT THE SAME TIME.*
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos/16455#post_7667906
> 
> ...


 

  
  (Not that you read minds but...)
   
  I was aware of your joint-custody of the LCD-2's in the same way I became aware of the previously sold WA2 & incoming WA22 - my interest, your posting before & after. The WA2/WA22 review was well written, by the way - I had my comment posted before the ink dried on that review.... now that's some interest! Back to spec r.1 & r.2 - when you had them wouldn't change your observation on the volume pot. Well, unless it was too close to call. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_"Not sure why it even matters whether our amps or tubes match?"_
   
  In following this discussion... (cont'd) initially jc9394 was concerned about the tubes he was using to drive his LCD-2 spec r.1's. And at one time thought the r.2 spec would be easier to drive. He's interested in possibly selling the former and buying the latter once he gathers additional information. Unless I missed the selling of his WA22 and r.1 spec LCD-2's, you've had/observed the same combo. But I am not sure what Power/Driver tubes you had and he still uses. 
   
  My genuine curiosity was born out of his seeking additional information and making sure that comparisons were level. If jc9394 observes he has to reach 3 o'clock on the volume pot to push the r.1's to moderate volume and your having a more powerful tube combo allowing for a turn of only 11 o'clock on the pot to moderate volume, how does this help? And your having any other amp outside the '22', again how does that help? 




   
  Hopefully you see my point - it was not one of contention but of illumination. The "In-session" sign is now flashing! My 1 hour warm-up is complete... great chatting with you!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I may have a picture or two to post on Tuesday (that was a real tongue twister).


 

 Maintenance ~
   
  Head-fi performed maintenance to their servers over the weekend. In the first half-hour of getting the _Boot,_ I thought "Great, housecleaning..." Now it turns out head-fi was making room for your upload all along! Does this mean its going to be really... really BIG?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> LCD-2 or HE-6--I have heard neither. Is the HE-6 something to consider as well despite the LCD-2 being all the rage at this moment? I need to write down 5 headphones on a dartboard and just pick one that way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The HE-6 is definitely something to consider if as SS said, you have the amp for it.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does this mean its going to be really... really BIG?


 

 Inset crass joke here


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> (Not that you read minds but...)
> 
> I was aware of your joint-custody of the LCD-2's in the same way I became aware of the previously sold WA2 & incoming WA22 - my interest, your posting before & after. The WA2/WA22 review was well written, by the way - I had my comment posted before the ink dried on that review.... now that's some interest! Back to spec r.1 & r.2 - when you had them wouldn't change your observation on the volume pot. Well, unless it was too close to call.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No way on selling the WA22 at all.  With my WA22 on high gain and LCD-2 r1, I'm only able to turn up 3 clicks to reach the level I like to listen to.  The WA22 is definitely able to drive the LCD-2 with out any issues, the tubes combo I use is TS5998, TS BGRP/TS 6F8G, and EML 5U4G.
   
  My concerns is if LCD-2 r2 is harder to drive, will it tax the driver tube like ECC32 that Danny experienced.  I think I will most likely keep the LCD-2 r1 since I can't really find anything that I don't like about it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The HE-6 is definitely something to consider if as SS said, you have the amp for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Inset crass joke here


 

 Clayton, what is the gain on your beta22?  If you have issues driving HE6 with your WA2/WA22, you will have your LF soon.  Get the HE6, I will be over in no time.


----------



## jerico

jc9394 said:


> No way on selling the WA22 at all.  With my WA22 on high gain and LCD-2 r1, I'm only able to turn up 3 clicks to reach the level I like to listen to.




Same here - 3 clicks is comfortable, 4-5 clicks pushes things towards dangerously loud (using 5998 or 7236 with LCD2r1). The 22 doesn't break a sweat with either of those tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Clayton, what is the gain on your beta22?  If you have issues driving HE6 with your WA2/WA22, you will have your LF soon.  Get the HE6, I will be over in no time.


 
  Corey Warner had discussed this with me and we settled on 5x which has turned out to be really nice. At 5 they drive my Beyer DT990 600 ohms very well and I can only listen to them at 1:00 max. My ears will not tolerate anything past 1:00. I love the play from min to max at 1:00 for the DT990.
   
  LF is in the house and is at 146 hours burn-in.
   
  So you prefer the HE6 over the LCD-2 rev.2? Good to know. Good to know.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Corey Warner had discussed this with me and we settled on 5x which has turned out to be really nice. At 5 they drive my Beyer DT990 600 ohms very well and I can only listen to them at 1:00 max. My ears will not tolerate anything past 1:00. I love the play from min to max at 1:00 for the DT990.
> 
> LF is in the house and is at 146 hours burn-in.
> 
> So you prefer the HE6 over the LCD-2 rev.2? Good to know. Good to know.


 

 Excellent, I will need to book a hotel close to your place and the sushi place next time I visit SF.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No way on selling the WA22 at all.  With my WA22 on high gain and LCD-2 r1, I'm only able to turn up 3 clicks to reach the level I like to listen to.  The WA22 is definitely able to drive the LCD-2 with out any issues, the tubes combo I use is TS5998, TS BGRP/TS 6F8G, and EML 5U4G.
> 
> My concerns is if LCD-2 r2 is harder to drive, will it tax the driver tube like ECC32 that Danny experienced.  I think I will most likely keep the LCD-2 r1 since I can't really find anything that I don't like about it.


 

 I have not found the r2's to be harder to drive at all.  When I use them I switch to low impedance and I'm up 4 or 5 clicks.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Maintenance ~
> 
> Head-fi performed maintenance to their servers over the weekend. In the first half-hour of getting the _Boot,_ I thought "Great, housecleaning..." Now it turns out head-fi was making room for your upload all along! Does this mean its going to be really... really BIG?


 

 Won't be that many pictures, but I am hoping they will be interesting.


----------



## dannie01

I tested tonight the Mullard ECC32 with WA5LE again and the answer is, I almsot confirm the ECC32s are *DEAD*





.
   
  I put the Mullard back to the WA5LE and test with HD800, both LCD-2 R1 and R2. All music come with distortion no matter high or low imp. jack was plugged. I will put them in a nice wooden frame and will be hang on the wall for memory and decoration.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I tested tonight the Mullard ECC32 with WA5LE again and the answer is, I almsot confirm the ECC32s are *DEAD*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry to hear about this Dannie. We both got our ECC 32s in May from the same reputable seller. I got two sets, one for spare. I hope I won't be needing the spares too $oon!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Sorry to hear about this Dannie. We both got our ECC 32s in May from the same reputable seller. I got two sets, one for spare. I hope I won't be needing the spares too $oon!


 


 Oh yeah, their lifespan is about too short but who knows, they are NOS, no one can guarantee the quality. Maybe I'm just bad luck, hope you don't follow me, touch wood.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No way on selling the WA22 at all.  With my WA22 on high gain and LCD-2 r1, I'm only able to turn up 3 clicks to reach the level I like to listen to.  The WA22 is definitely able to drive the LCD-2 with out any issues, the tubes combo I use is TS5998, TS BGRP/TS 6F8G, and EML 5U4G.
> 
> My concerns is if LCD-2 r2 is harder to drive, will it tax the driver tube like ECC32 that Danny experienced.  I think I will most likely keep the LCD-2 r1 since I can't really find anything that I don't like about it.


 


  Stark contrast ~
   
  I was hoping all would realize the stark contrast presented on the volume pot was for example purposes only... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yes, I understood your concerns well, as I had been following the discussion from the beginning with you, dannie01, Takezo, mikemalter and so on...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My concerns is if LCD-2 r2 is harder to drive, will it tax the driver tube like ECC32 that Danny experienced.  I think I will most likely keep the LCD-2 r1 since I can't really find anything that I don't like about it.


 


 You have an answer.......................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But try to audition the R2 if you have a chance, I bought them after a few minutes test session in the Aug Hong Kong Hi End Audio show.............................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You have an answer.......................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So sorry to heard that...
   
  I will try to audition the r2 and most likely will not make a decision until I heard the r2.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Be the change you want to see.


 







I have nothing :crying:


----------



## adamrut

If anyone who has a Woo WA22 that wants to sell it - PM me.


----------



## mikemalter

Pictures soon:


----------



## bobeau

Just a quick note on a recent production EML 5u4g mesh vs. EML 274b solid (old production, no longer available) - These tubes sound quite a bit different.  The 274b is more spacious, 3d, and smooth sounding but slightly diffuse/slow relative to the other tubes.  Overall it has the most speaker-like and natural presentation and as such is my favorite.  The EML 5u4g mesh sounds closer to the Sophia Princess 274b mesh - I might prefer the Sophia actually, as I seem to get a little too much upper mids w/ the EML.  That said the EML has few hours on it and perhaps it needs more break-in, but I'm pretty sure the EML 274b solid is my fav regardless.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just a quick note on a recent production EML 5u4g mesh vs. EML 274b solid (old production, no longer available) - These tubes sound quite a bit different.  The 274b is more spacious, 3d, and smooth sounding but slightly diffuse/slow relative to the other tubes.  Overall it has the most speaker-like and natural presentation and as such is my favorite.  The EML 5u4g mesh sounds closer to the Sophia Princess 274b mesh - I might prefer the Sophia actually, as I seem to get a little too much upper mids w/ the EML.  That said the EML has few hours on it and perhaps it needs more break-in, but I'm pretty sure the EML 274b solid is my fav regardless.


 

 Thanks, bobeau. Do you find the solid plate good across many genres or does it excel with your favorite genre?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Pictures soon:


 


  Did Glenn check the Mobile Tracking option for you?
   
  Silent One
  tel. 310. XXX. XXXX


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *(Not that you read minds but...)*
> 
> I was aware of your joint-custody of the LCD-2's in the same way I became aware of the previously sold WA2 & incoming WA22 - my interest, your posting before & after. The WA2/WA22 review was well written, by the way - I had my comment posted before the ink dried on that review.... now that's some interest! Back to spec r.1 & r.2 - when you had them wouldn't change your observation on the volume pot. Well, unless it was too close to call.
> 
> ...


 


  I would think keeping your amp the same and trying both the LCD-2 R1 and R2 should be enough to say whether one was more efficient than the other. BTW, I did try this on both my WA22 and Lyr with the same results....just a small increase in the volume was needed with the R2 to volume match.
   
  BTW, only my wife can read minds.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I would think keeping your amp the same and trying both the LCD-2 R1 and R2 should be enough to say whether one was more efficient than the other. BTW, I did try this on both my WA22 and Lyr with the same results....just a small increase in the volume was needed with the R2 to volume match.
> 
> BTW, only my wife can read minds.


 


  Appreciate it, MacedonianHero. By the way, I just relinquished my place in the queue for pre-owned WA22's. The wallet is empty... and a new guy showed up today.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (I'm joking, adamrut...)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Appreciate it, MacedonianHero. By the way, I just relinquished my place in the queue for pre-owned WA22's. The wallet is empty... *and a new guy showed up today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Care to elaborate?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Care to elaborate?


 

 Last week I started looking to buy my first WA22 (used). But it would require liquidating a couple of pieces first. Then a new member appears in this thread this afternoon (with cash) seeking to buy a WA22 from any of you current members. He's standing where I recently stood 'cause I ain't got no cash. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (to the back of the line, Silent one!)


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, bobeau. Do you find the solid plate good across many genres or does it excel with your favorite genre?


 

 For listening for hours on end, the solid plate is it for me.  For particularly fast or detailed music, or when you simply want to rock, I can see others preferring the other 2, but in that dept I do prefer an old philips metal GZ-34.  I haven't put serious listening into either the Sophia or EML 5u4g though, probably no more than a few hours on each, usually 30 minutes at a time.
   
  The big thing with the EML solid plate is (in conjunction w/ Sylvania 6ew7s) it makes my otherwise closed-in sounding Edition 8s have a big phone soundstage with fairly realistic depth.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Last week I started looking to buy my first WA22 (used). But it would require liquidating a couple of pieces first. Then a new member appears in this thread this afternoon (with cash) seeking to buy a WA22 from any of you current members. He's standing where I recently stood 'cause I ain't got no cash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They do come up from time to time...good luck!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I tested tonight the Mullard ECC32 with WA5LE again and the answer is, I almsot confirm the ECC32s are *DEAD*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That's such a shame.  This really makes me wonder about how much time people are really getting from their tubes in these amps.  The quoted 5,000 hours is well and good (I think it is actually 9,000 for driver tubes even), but I often wonder how many people actually make it that long.  Under normal usage circumstances they should realistically make it 10 years, but if that were really the case we wouldn't see the talk of dead tubes we see around here from time to time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just a quick note on a recent production EML 5u4g mesh vs. EML 274b solid (old production, no longer available) - These tubes sound quite a bit different.  The 274b is more spacious, 3d, and smooth sounding but slightly diffuse/slow relative to the other tubes.  Overall it has the most speaker-like and natural presentation and as such is my favorite.  The EML 5u4g mesh sounds closer to the Sophia Princess 274b mesh - I might prefer the Sophia actually, as I seem to get a little too much upper mids w/ the EML.  That said the EML has few hours on it and perhaps it needs more break-in, but I'm pretty sure the EML 274b solid is my fav regardless.


 


  The upper mids should settle on the EML with some more time.  I didn't feel they really "got there" with mine until I was well past 100 hours.  Any issues with midrange glare or hardness should go away by the 150 hour mark.  Their presentation becomes even deeper after the transition too.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Pictures soon:


 
  So it was *your* amp he was modding!  Lucky.


----------



## Clayton SF

Anxiously anticipating what you will think of your new Woo sound.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did Glenn check the Mobile Tracking option for you?
> 
> Silent One
> tel. 310. XXX. XXXX


 

 Lost me on that one.  Ok, I'll bite, what is a mobile tracking option?  Did you want me to call you?
   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So it was *your* amp he was modding!  Lucky.


 

 Yeah, it should be back sometime tomorrow.  After I listen and take a few pictures, I'll post a description of what he did.
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike: What is Glenn's opinion on the new Woo sound? Hot, cold, dry, wet, liquid, solid? Chemistry Class!


 

 He likes them.  And, given their weather over there the past few days, decidedly dry!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Lost me on that one.  Ok, I'll bite, what is a mobile tracking option?  Did you want me to call you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Mobile tracking options ~
   
  You ever track your goodies on your computer for FedEx-UPS-USPS-DHL and others? Alerts get sent to your mobile if offered - Out for delivery; Delivered at (Time of day). I'd put down the L.A. Times and pick up the iPhone "Ah ha!" before you marched upstairs.
   
  No worries, no Front-running, I'll wait with the rest of the class...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> He likes them.  And, given their weather over there the past few days, decidedly dry!


 
  LOL. Well well well well (a dry, well well well well). There's something about caps that remind me of dynamite. In a good way. Sticks of power! Have fun! Alright, potluck soon. Well amp potluck that is. A Potluck Amp Meet. My Liquid Fire is now past 150 hours of burn-in time and I am ready to dive in. To sacrifice my audio soul to the Liquid Fire, Audio God, Volcano of Sound. And speaking of volcanoes--you'll be in Hawaii soon. Have fun. And have your wife take a picture of you sitting in your window seat with your headphones and portable amp. Aloha!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The upper mids should settle on the EML with some more time.  I didn't feel they really "got there" with mine until I was well past 100 hours.  Any issues with midrange glare or hardness should go away by the 150 hour mark.  Their presentation becomes even deeper after the transition too.


 

 Wow really?  Hmm, I was thinking of reselling it.  Guess I need to use it for a few weeks, but honestly it's quite far from the sound I was hoping for.  Same with my amp as well, only have maybe 50 hours on it of re-breaking-in the blackgates.


----------



## LUMAZ

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just a quick note on a recent production EML 5u4g mesh vs. EML 274b solid (old production, no longer available) - These tubes sound quite a bit different.  The 274b is more spacious, 3d, and smooth sounding but slightly diffuse/slow relative to the other tubes.  Overall it has the most speaker-like and natural presentation and as such is my favorite.  The EML 5u4g mesh sounds closer to the Sophia Princess 274b mesh - I might prefer the Sophia actually, as I seem to get a little too much upper mids w/ the EML.  That said the EML has few hours on it and perhaps it needs more break-in, but I'm pretty sure the EML 274b solid is my fav regardless.


 
  Sigh, sometimes your posts make my head turn because I don't really know what advice to follow: on page 871 SilentOne says that for him EML 5U4G is better than Sophia Princess, now bobeau says that for him 5U4G has a sound very similar to the Sophia and than the old EML 274 Solid is the better of the three (anyone have heard the new production of EML 274? How it sounds?).
  Now I have the Sophia Princess and in my system, with the other tubes I currently use (TS BGRP as driver and WE 421A as power tubes) sounds very well but I haven't heard the EML and I really don't know if buying one of them (and which one, Solid or Mesh?) or no.
  I strongly believe that every unit (source, ampli, cans, etc) sounds different on every audio system because it depends also how good (or excellent) are the other components of the system.
  I have nearly finished the break-in of my new Naim 555 and now my WA22 sounds really excellent and this surely because it receives a nearly perfect flow of energy from Naim and it helps WA22 to perform at his best. Maybe on other systems it can't reach his full potential yet.
  For the end of september, if you like, I will put some pics of my audio system and a full review of how sounds my WA22 on all kinds of music that I like (classical, jazz, folk, rock, hard rock, brasilian) etc..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Sigh, sometimes your posts make my head turn because I don't really know what advice to follow: on page 871 SilentOne says that for him EML 5U4G is better than Sophia Princess, now bobeau says that for him 5U4G has a sound very similar to the Sophia and than the old EML 274 Solid is the better of the three (anyone have heard the new production of EML 274? How it sounds?).
> Now I have the Sophia Princess and in my system, with the other tubes I currently use (TS BGRP as driver and WE 421A as power tubes) sounds very well but I haven't heard the EML and I really don't know if buying one of them (and which one, Solid or Mesh?) or no.
> I strongly believe that every unit (source, ampli, cans, etc) sounds different on every audio system because it depends also how good (or excellent) are the other components of the system.
> I have nearly finished the break-in of my new Naim 555 and now my WA22 sounds really excellent and this surely because it receives a nearly perfect flow of energy from Naim and it helps WA22 to perform at his best. Maybe on other systems it can't reach his full potential yet.
> For the end of september, if you like, I will put some pics of my audio system and a full review of how sounds my WA22 on all kinds of music that I like (classical, jazz, folk, rock, hard rock, brasilian) etc..


 


  Great! Looking forward to your contribution...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Sigh, sometimes your posts make my head turn because I don't really know what advice to follow: on page 871 SilentOne says that for him EML 5U4G is better than Sophia Princess, now bobeau says that for him 5U4G has a sound very similar to the Sophia and than the old EML 274 Solid is the better of the three (anyone have heard the new production of EML 274? How it sounds?).
> Now I have the Sophia Princess and in my system, with the other tubes I currently use (TS BGRP as driver and WE 421A as power tubes) sounds very well but I haven't heard the EML and I really don't know if buying one of them (and which one, Solid or Mesh?) or no.
> I strongly believe that every unit (source, ampli, cans, etc) sounds different on every audio system because it depends also how good (or excellent) are the other components of the system.
> I have nearly finished the break-in of my new Naim 555 and now my WA22 sounds really excellent and this surely because it receives a nearly perfect flow of energy from Naim and it helps WA22 to perform at his best. Maybe on other systems it can't reach his full potential yet.
> For the end of september, if you like, I will put some pics of my audio system and a full review of how sounds my WA22 on all kinds of music that I like (classical, jazz, folk, rock, hard rock, brasilian) etc..


 


   Nothing is absolute in this hobby it all depends on the interactions and synergy of the different elements in you audio chain but mostly in your taste of sound. There is nothing like trying by yourself.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yeah, it should be back sometime tomorrow.  After I listen and take a few pictures, I'll post a description of what he did.


 
   
  Put in BGs in the Woo?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Put in BGs in the Woo?


 
  Wow. You can still get BGs? That's great.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. You can still get BGs? That's great.


 
  yes but not easy.  wonder what mike did to his woo


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Sigh, sometimes your posts make my head turn because I don't really know what advice to follow: on page 871 SilentOne says that for him EML 5U4G is better than Sophia Princess, now bobeau says that for him 5U4G has a sound very similar to the Sophia and than the old EML 274 Solid is the better of the three (anyone have heard the new production of EML 274? How it sounds?).


 

 I'm right there with you... I searched this entire thread and read as much as I could find on these tubes, and for better or worse had a specific impression already formed in my mind before hearing any of them.
   
  Basically, at least in my system, the solid plate lived up to the hype, the Sophia is better than I expected, and the 5u4g falls a bit short.  To clarify my expectations on the 5u4g, I was hoping it would give nearly the depth/realism (the *magic*) of the solid plate but with a more precise sound and a touch tighter bottom - my expectations were pretty high, I was hoping to prefer it overall.  But the 5u4g is the only new tube and I am going to put in some time in to give it a fair shot.  These are just my personal initial impressions, others have different equipment, preferences, etc, and time may certainly change things.  I'll be sure to report back.
   
  EDIT: not sure if this matters, but the old EML274b solid is a _huge_ tube.  I measures rights at 7" from pins to top of glass.  Probably has about 25% more volume than the EML 5u4g.  The Sophia might be a touch smaller than the 5u4g, perhaps more, clearly quite a bit shorter and wider.


----------



## strannik

Wow, how old is your Sophia? Few thousand hours? I know they darken with use over time but.. I've never seen anything like that.
  
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'm right there with you... I searched this entire thread and read as much as I could find on these tubes, and for better or worse had a specific impression already formed in my mind before hearing any of them.
> 
> Basically, at least in my system, the solid plate lived up to the hype, the Sophia is better than I expected, and the 5u4g falls a bit short.  To clarify my expectations on the 5u4g, I was hoping it would give nearly the depth/realism (the *magic*) of the solid plate but with a more precise sound and a touch tighter bottom - my expectations were pretty high, I was hoping to prefer it overall.  But the 5u4g is the only new tube and I am going to put in some time in to give it a fair shot.  These are just my personal initial impressions, others have different equipment, preferences, etc, and time may certainly change things.  I'll be sure to report back.
> 
> EDIT: not sure if this matters, but the old EML274b solid is a _huge_ tube.  I measures rights at 7" from pins to top of glass.  Probably has about 25% more volume than the EML 5u4g.  The Sophia might be a touch smaller than the 5u4g, perhaps more, clearly quite a bit shorter and wider.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Wow, how old is your Sophia? Few thousand hours? I know they darken with use over time but.. I've never seen anything like that.


 

 It's not nearly as dark in person as it looks in the photo, but it does appear the glass is evenly tinted all over.  
   
  It came with the amp I purchased from SillySally which I believe he bought sometime in early 2k9, so at least a couple years old.  I believe he mentioned it has fairly low number of hours (ie. less than a few hundred) as he moved onto using EML tubes after so many months.


----------



## mikemalter

Ok, here are a few snaps, the battery in my Nikon died, so these are all I have until it's recharged.
   
  First, no black gates, they were not available and Glenn says that a lot of the musicians he voices guitar amps for ask for a different type of capicator.  I'm a little rushed now, so here are a few pictures and then later today I'll get into the details.  Glenn, if you read this, please feel free to add more technical details of what you did and what points to what.
   

   
  Old bones.
   

   

   
  New switch and wireing to break connection and seperate balanced and single ended outputs.
   
   

   
   
   
   


   
  More pictures and comments later.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I see Vcaps for the coupling caps.  That will sound clear as a bell in an isolation chamber once burned in. 
   
  Did Glenn change the cathode bypass caps to something different?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I see Vcaps for the coupling caps.  That will sound clear as a bell in an isolation chamber once burned in.
> 
> Did Glenn change the cathode bypass caps to something different?


 

 Which ones are the cathode bypass caps?
   
  I've been reading that V-Caps need 400 hours burn-in time.  What do you think?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Which ones are the cathode bypass caps?
> 
> I've been reading that V-Caps need 400 hours burn-in time.  What do you think?


 


  When I had my WA6 maxxed, I heard no changes after 500 hours.  No sure on WA22 since I got it used.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I see Vcaps for the coupling caps.  That will sound clear as a bell in an isolation chamber once burned in.
> 
> Did Glenn change the cathode bypass caps to something different?


 


 Yes I removed the bypass caps from the board and used Sprague Atom caps for bypass the two big blue caps those are for the 6AS7s
  500uf 100 volt
  and the two black caps at the bottom center of the board 250uf 25 volt
   Removing the two bypass caps from the board gave room for the 2 yellow poly caps that I added to bypass the last electrolytic
   capacitors in the power supply that supply power to the 6AS7s.
  also changed the 4 6SN7 plate resistors removed the cheep 33000 ohm 5% 1/2 watt resistors with Caddock non inductive
  33000 ohm 1% 7 watt resistors


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. You can still get BGs? That's great.


 

  
  I replaced em with BGs , got  help from a friend who's a post doc in EE, he manage to find some supplies through school and the used/broken equipment they got there. 
  Frankly as ignorant about EE or amp as I do, I've got no idea what he has done o.O. But I really trust his knowledge lol. 
   
  Although what other mod his done with his amp lol 
   
  Frankly I didn't notice any difference with mine, since I only had very little time with the stock one.... but I really didn't think the whole mod thing worth my friend's time.....


----------



## adamrut

> Quote:


 


silent one said:


> Last week I started looking to buy my first WA22 (used). But it would require liquidating a couple of pieces first. Then a new member appears in this thread this afternoon (with cash) seeking to buy a WA22 from any of you current members. He's standing where I recently stood 'cause I ain't got no cash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> They do come up from time to time...good luck!


 

[size=10.0pt]Sorry Silent, you are correct.  I'm new here and happily get behind you in line for a used WA22.  [/size]



[size=10.0pt]  I just bought a par a of LCD-2's rev1 from a fellow member and using them with a Little Dot MKIII.  It's a nice modest setup however I would like to go to a balanced setup.  After reading all of the great review and posts regarding the WA22 I figured I would though my hat in the ring.  [/size]
   
[size=10.0pt]MacedonianHero - Thanks for the e[/size]ncouragement but it looks like have some competition


----------



## mikemalter

I have a little more time and can post some nicer pictures.
   
   
  Pre-mod

   
   
  Complete mod at a glance

   
   
  Bones:




   
  Details of the innards (L then R)

   

   

   
  Details of replacement wireing on headphone outputs.  Balanced outputs send a balanced signal and are disconnected from the single ended
  1/4 inch jack by a switch.  That switch will activate when a 1/4 inch jack is plugged in which will then make all output single ended.  The net
  effect of this wiring is that the amp is now fully balanced back to front and the default is a balanced output through the balanced headphone
  jacks in the front.  If you have a single ended headphone, you plug it into the 1/4 inch jack and then you get a single ended output.  The
  sonic effects of this part of the modification are that highs are less congested.  This was an experiment as it's effects were unknown given
  the strength of Woo's design.  The sonic impact to me was minimal, and it seems to me that it would not be worth it to just get this done only, however
  if you are getting other things done, then it would we worth it.

   
  I don't have a lot to say about the differences in sound at this point as I have read that the V-Caps take 400 hours to breakin and the sound is
  all over the map.  However, I would like to give a cooking analogy.  I have this dish I like to make for Sunday lunch, with fried onions, green
  and orange peppers, a jalipano, lots of white mushrooms and a single very large crimini mushroom. 
   
  Cooking with just some salt and a little pepper and it's a really good dish and hits the spot.  However when I use some of Chef Paul's vegetable
  magic seasoning, all of a sudden the contrast of the sweet and salty notes start playing off of each other.  The peppers taste really sweet
  and their flavor becomes more pronounced.  So at this early stage, this mod is like my sunday lunch, it was really good before (as everyone knows
  how good the WA22 is natively), and the mods just took the excellence of what was there and made it more pronounced, and as a result there
  is more dimensionality and depth.
   
  As the hours pass, I'll post every so often as changes occurr.  I am hearing flashes of something really nice.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Very nice looking.  It is every bit as clean looking as the stock build.  Also, thanks to Glenn for elaborating a bit on the changes.  I was considering having the Nichicon Muse or Elna Silnic II substituted for the stock cathode bypass caps when it came time to get mine, but your mod takes it to another level over that.  That and I'm definitely getting the stock coupling caps replaced with something else, but what else I haven't decided yet.  It's still a long way off (had to spend the money I was putting aside for it to replace my PC instead) but I enjoy laying the plans out ahead of time.
   
  As for the Vcaps........ I can't confirm or deny the 400 hour number, but there is wide consensus that Vcaps need time to open up.  Cheers, and I hope you enjoy your new WA22+  Mike!


----------



## Silent One

WA22+
   
  That's a great way to look at the enhanced '22', Xcalibur255! And 2359glenn, great job!!! mikemalter, you'e in for a beautiful autumn. I agree that the numbers for different caps reaching full bloom are all over the street. However, in my own conservative view, though caps may begin to show some early improvement up through 500 hours, at minimum I'm looking at 1,000 hours. Vcaps, Black Gates and a few others will all need to crash the 1k mark to be at full sonic bloom (my opinion, of course). 
   
  After further thought though, I'm basing this on a new amp. But what if an amp is previously broken, perhaps that time could/should be cut? Something to ponder over breakfast...
   
  My projection? December, if his play-in schedule accounts for a single 8-10 hour effort each day. Also considering September will be a split month for him as well. If he decides to run split 8 hour shifts each day (2 a day), he will reach nirvana on Friday, 28 October. He'll be celebrating his Woo in full-bloom, I'll be celebrating the first day of Eggnog season!.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





adamrut said:


> [size=10.0pt]Sorry Silent, you are correct.  I'm new here and happily get behind you in line for a used WA22.  [/size]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  adamrut ~
   
  Welcome to head-fi and the 'Unite' thread in particular!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Wow, how old is your Sophia? Few thousand hours? I know they darken with use over time but.. I've never seen anything like that.


 


  I had my Sophia Princess about eight months and she started to darken rather quickly, beginning in month three. But her performance was never affected.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a little more time and can post some nicer pictures.
> 
> 
> Pre-mod
> ...


 


  Bones? Brilliant play! You got that Nikon charged up just in time - great shots! Although, I'm just starting to dig the Sunday Brunch analogy... too close to breakfast!


----------



## Clayton SF

Mike, I think that you've voided the WA22's warranty.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Of course we'll never know but I'd love to hear what Woo would say about the upgraded mod.


----------



## Skylab

I'm sure Glenn provides a warranty for his work.


----------



## WarriorAnt

This upgrade looks like an obvious improvement over the stock components.  It's been an eye opener for sure.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Mike, I think that you've voided the WA22's warranty.


 


  Yes, he did.


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Of course we'll never know but I'd love to hear what Woo would say about the upgraded mod.


 

 Jack will be fine as long as the spec of upgrade are all checked out.  He will service it if necessary but you will have to pay for it.  It happened to my WA22 during shipping from HK and I have to ship it to Jack to fix it for me.  The upgrade parts are shook loose during shipping and I did not notice and fried something.  Jack took good care of it for a very reasonable charge.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Jack will be fine as long as the spec of upgrade are all checked out.  He will service it if necessary but you will have to pay for it.  It happened to my WA22 during shipping from HK and I have to ship it to Jack to fix it for me.  The upgrade parts are shook loose during shipping and I did not notice and fried something.  Jack took good care of it for a very reasonable charge.


 

  
  I didn't mean wether or not he would approve of the mod, just his philosophical view on it.    I've had designers mod their own equipment for me in the past, and it's always interesting to hear their updated views on new components and why they were or were not considered prior.


----------



## jc9394

Jack said he did not offer the upgrade on WA22 because he can't source the parts.  BGs are very hard to come by these days and the price/SQ is not justifiable.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Jack said he did not offer the upgrade on WA22 because he can't source the parts.  BGs are very hard to come by these days and the price/SQ is not justifiable.


 


  The justifiable price point is an interesting point of contention for sure.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well if Mike likes it. Then perhaps I would consider it as well.

Hey Mike, I know you're using the DAC-2 with your WA22 (pre-mods) with good results but I've recently come across this: 

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products_zodiac.html

are you aware of this one? Has anyone else auditioned the Zodiac DAC with their Woo?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well if Mike likes it. Then perhaps I would consider it as well.
> 
> Hey Mike, I know you're using the DAC-2 with your WA22 (pre-mods) with good results but I've recently come across this:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm on this for a while but my wallet said "stay away or you will be sorry".  I'm interest in too if any Woo owners using it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The justifiable price point is an interesting point of contention for sure.


 

 I can justify them last year but not this year, the price of BGs are almost double than last year.  
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-GATE-NH-series-electrolytic-capacitor-220u-160V-/220670164225
   
  That is crazy price increase.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I can justify them last year but not this year, the price of BGs are almost double than last year.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-GATE-NH-series-electrolytic-capacitor-220u-160V-/220670164225
> 
> That is crazy price increase.




Is there any way to make sure you're not getting counterfeits. I'm not sure if they counterfeit caps though but if they can do it to headphones, tubes, etc. well... they can with caps I guess.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes I removed the bypass caps from the board and used Sprague Atom caps for bypass the two big blue caps those are for the 6AS7s
> 500uf 100 volt
> and the two black caps at the bottom center of the board 250uf 25 volt
> Removing the two bypass caps from the board gave room for the 2 yellow poly caps that I added to bypass the last electrolytic
> ...


 

 hello glenn, why the need for the 10uf bypass cap? was the noise factor that bad? what are your thoughts of the sprague atoms compared to elna silmic2's? (nonpolar nx bg's would've been nice for that position...)


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Is there any way to make sure you're not getting counterfeits. I'm not sure if they counterfeit caps though but if they can do it to headphones, tubes, etc. well... they can with caps I guess.


 


  I personally can't that is why I don't do mod myself and let the professional does their magic.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a little more time and can post some nicer pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Mike, can you please post a pic of the switch from the outside?  I'm really interest in this mod.


----------



## BrucYSN

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm sure Glenn provides a warranty for his work.


 


  Who's Glenn btw?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I can justify them last year but not this year, the price of BGs are almost double than last year.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-GATE-NH-series-electrolytic-capacitor-220u-160V-/220670164225
> 
> That is crazy price increase.


 


 Yeah, the price is going unbelievably high.
   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Is there any way to make sure you're not getting counterfeits. I'm not sure if they counterfeit caps though but if they can do it to headphones, tubes, etc. well... they can with caps I guess.


 


 You're right, too. I bought some fake BHC caps months ago from a China website.
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I personally can't that is why I don't do mod myself and let the professional does their magic.


 


 There is no magic at all my friend just some rarely found component.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> There is no magic at all my friend just some rarely found component.


 


  Should I say soldering skill?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Are you done with the WA5 mod?  We need to see some glamour shots.


----------



## mikemalter

I think, yes, my warranty is voided with Glenn's mods.  Also, if something comes up, I'm sure Glenn will take care of it.
   
  On the idea of what Jack would think of the mod.  I think that those guys could have done something just as good or better if they took a cost is no object approach.  When Glenn and I looked at what could be done, there were pricing considerations to the parts.  The whole mod cost $707.00 and Glenn only charged me $200.00 for labor (shipping was extra and I picked it up).  So it cost a little more than $500.00 for parts.  The V-Caps were around $400.00 alone.  So there is this whole question of sourcing parts and logistical support and who knows what other considerations go into an item in a product line.  My guess is that Jack would be happy in the knowledge that his equipment is so good and well thought of by his customer base that his customers would be willing to invest time and money to optimize what is already there.  Who is going to put money into a throwaway piece of gear?  The WA22, and the other Woo amps, are gear to keep for a long time, and I think Jack would be pleased.
   
  What I really liked about Glenn's approach was that he spent some time analyzing the design, and looked at the parts that went into it to implement it and then thought about how he could, in the spirit of the design, in harmony with the design, improve performance through the addition of certian parts.  Not all the caps were V-Caps, there are several different types so the outcome is not a V-Cap sound.
   
  I'm probably going to do try to get two shifts of burn-in a day for 16 hours.  During the day, I'll run with my good tubes, and then in the evening when I go to bed, I'll run with a variety of different tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





brucysn said:


> Who's Glenn btw?


 

http://www.head-fi.org/user/2359glenn
   
  Our friend that makes great tube adapters for our Woo...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I think, yes, my warranty is voided with Glenn's mods.  Also, if something comes up, I'm sure Glenn will take care of it.
> 
> On the idea of what Jack would think of the mod.  I think that those guys could have done something just as good or better if they took a cost is no object approach.  When Glenn and I looked at what could be done, there were pricing considerations to the parts.  The whole mod cost $707.00 and Glenn only charged me $200.00 for labor (shipping was extra and I picked it up).  So it cost a little more than $500.00 for parts.  The V-Caps were around $400.00 alone.  So there is this whole question of sourcing parts and logistical support and who knows what other considerations go into an item in a product line.  My guess is that Jack would be happy in the knowledge that his equipment is so good and well thought of by his customer base that his customers would be willing to invest time and money to optimize what is already there.  Who is going to put money into a throwaway piece of gear?  The WA22, and the other Woo amps, are gear to keep for a long time, and I think Jack would be pleased.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well said.  I will stick the stock tubes when you are not listening, why shorten the life of already fragile NOS tubes.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Mike, can you please post a pic of the switch from the outside?  I'm really interest in this mod.


 


 X 2
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Should I say soldering skill?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The messy work finally need seek help from Jack you mean? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I quit, it take too much time for re-arrangement of the large caps and other component, btw I am too lazy to do that again.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> seek help from Jack you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That is only that both HK Post and USPS decided to give the WA22 a massage that it can't handle.  Jack is super nice guy to take care that mess that HK/USPS created.  I'm still loving it as much as I got it back from Jack.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is only that both HK Post and USPS decided to give the WA22 a massage that it can't handle.  Jack is super nice guy to take care that mess that HK/USPS created.  I'm still loving it as much as I got it back from Jack.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm really dying to meet Jack Wu some day. I'll miss CanJam 2011 so I won't get a chance to meet him this year. Is anyone going to CanJam this year and has anyone actually met Jack? He's almost got Rock Star status in my book.


----------



## DavidMahler

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm really dying to meet Jack Wu some day. I'll miss CanJam 2011 so I won't get a chance to meet him this year. Is anyone going to CanJam this year and has anyone actually met Jack? He's almost got Rock Star status in my book.


 


  I've had the pleasure of meeting Jack, however brief.  A+ guy in my book!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Dannie, there is nothing on the outside to see.  It looks just like a 1/4 inch jack.  There is no toggle, the new 1/4 inch jack has the switch built in and if you insert a pair of headphones in that jack, you get audio that is single ended.  I'd PM Glenn for the details as I do not understand them as well as he does and he can make sure you are pointed in the right direction if you want to do it.


----------



## MilesDavis2

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Congrats on your new Woo!  What are you going to play first and what cans do you have?


 


  My apologies Mike.  Tgis is way back the 10th of August.  Don't mean to be rude but was looking back and I dedn't spot your question.  Since then, I've changed the groove tube rectifier (got it used) to a valave art 247B which was fine and alot better than the groove tube. I have changed since then to the sophia princess 274B and a pair of russian made tungsol 6sn7GT (reissues) which is making me smile already. My phones are HD600 and DT880 600 ohm. The music that I listened to first was some Blossom Dearie jazz vocals and Al Dimeola,John McLaughlin/Paco deLucia - Friday Night in San Francisco,  Since then, I have enjoyed reading each and everyone's interaction about tubes and learning alot.  I am also VERY impressed with your system.  Again, my apologies and better late than never.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Jack said he did not offer the upgrade on WA22 because he can't source the parts.  BGs are very hard to come by these days and the price/SQ is not justifiable.


 


  This has really never made sense to me.  Why would it *have* to be BlackGates?  There are many other fine offerings out there which would represent an upgrade over the stock part choices, some quite reasonably priced.  I've checked out the coupling caps in the WA22..... you can buy them from Parts Express for barely more than a dollar.  Even doing something like an Auricap upgrade could be offered as an option for a retail markup of, say, $100 at checkout time.  I think Jack is just trying to streamline his business and product lineup, which is completely understandable and probably a smart idea from a business management and overhead point of view.  But I don't get why BG availability keeps getting pointed to as the reason.
   
  The fact that he accepts customization requests means that Woo Audio clearly has no issue with doing design variations, I think maybe they just want them to be the exception rather than the norm to keep labor and build time reasonable.  Just my .02 cents anyway.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This has really never made sense to me.  Why would it *have* to be BlackGates?  There are many other fine offerings out there which would represent an upgrade over the stock part choices, some quite reasonably priced.  I've checked out the coupling caps in the WA22..... you can buy them from Parts Express for barely more than a dollar.  Even doing something like an Auricap upgrade could be offered as an option for a retail markup of, say, $100 at checkout time.  I think Jack is just trying to streamline his business and product lineup, which is completely understandable and probably a smart idea from a business management and overhead point of view.  But I don't get why BG availability keeps getting pointed to as the reason.
> 
> The fact that he accepts customization requests means that Woo Audio clearly has no issue with doing design variations, I think maybe they just want them to be the exception rather than the norm to keep labor and build time reasonable.  Just my .02 cents anyway.


 
  This is something I agree with.  For me it's more that I'd rather just see the better components placed in the units and then pay the extra price other wise it's simply not worth the coin.  The variables in build concerning the Woo's is actually one of the reasons I haven't purchased one yet, especially one in the used market. Because of this variance I have to approach every used woo as suspect in some way.  To me a designer should design his amp, put in the best components that complete the design for the best possible sound and price it accordingly.  This is Terra Firma for me.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> *Should I say soldering skill?  *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I want to see his J-STD-001 and IPC-A-610 certifications.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





takezo said:


> hello glenn, why the need for the 10uf bypass cap? was the noise factor that bad? what are your thoughts of the sprague atoms compared to elna silmic2's? (nonpolar nx bg's would've been nice for that position...)


 


 The 10uf poly bypass caps are fast they have nothing to do with noise these caps can discharge  faster then any electrolytic including BGs
  this makes the amp have better dynamics if i had the room I would have no electrolytic caps in the amp. I would use oil filled motor run caps in the power supply.
  And banks of paper in oil caps for cathode resistor bypass.
   I really don't know the sound difference between the Sprague and elna haven't A-B them but that is what I use in my amps and I fix / mod / upgrade / build
   amps for musicians and they want sprague atoms in there amps. I don't argue with the people who make the music.
    don't like  useing a non polar electrolytic with DC voltage across it these might be good for speaker crossover caps with just the AC signal across it but not
  with a dc potential across it.


----------



## Clayton SF

So Glenn, which headphones were you using to test Mike's Woo mods?


----------



## 2359glenn

HD800s and Hd650s


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Dannie, there is nothing on the outside to see.  It looks just like a 1/4 inch jack.  There is no toggle, the new 1/4 inch jack has the switch built in and if you insert a pair of headphones in that jack, you get audio that is single ended.  I'd PM Glenn for the details as I do not understand them as well as he does and he can make sure you are pointed in the right direction if you want to do it.


 

 Thanks for the input, Mike.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Found a local guy selling a 5AR4 Mullard (basically tests NOS) for $50 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....pretty excited to give this a try and compare it the the Sophia Princess I have coming in later this week on my WA22.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Found a local guy selling a 5AR4 Mullard (basically tests NOS) for $50
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 It seems very reasonable for a NOS Mullard.


----------



## mikemalter

Playing GE 6080 / Princess / Sophia tonight.


----------



## Icenine2

Check out the tubes on this amp!!!
   
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/green/1.jpg


----------



## Yitaro

On a recommendation by Takezo, I am waiting for the delivery of Brimar 5r4gy.  Will be using it with WA6.  Currently have a Princess, but looking for something that has more midrange bloom but still retaining the wide soundstage and detail.  Anybody with experience with the Brimar 5r4gy?
  The more I read about the WA22 posts, the more I want to jump on the upgrade band wagon but before I do that, I want to squeeze the best possible sound from my WA6.  Best possible sound within my system and preferences.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 10uf poly bypass caps are fast they have nothing to do with noise these caps can discharge  faster then any electrolytic including BGs
> this makes the amp have better dynamics if i had the room I would have no electrolytic caps in the amp. I would use oil filled motor run caps in the power supply.
> And banks of paper in oil caps for cathode resistor bypass.
> I really don't know the sound difference between the Sprague and elna haven't A-B them but that is what I use in my amps and I fix / mod / upgrade / build
> ...


 

 i assumed you were filtering the AC ripple/noise by bypassing the last electrolytic cap in the PS with the film cap; though i usually use something in the 1 to 4.7 uf range. by lowering the ripple, dynamics and resolution seems to improve since any excess noise is filtered out. have you tested the jensen electrolytics by any chance? for an electrolytic cap they are very impressive imo. i will have to try out the sprague atoms in the future. i wouldn't use eletrolytic in the signal pathway either, but the blackgate NX series is an exception. too bad they are no longer made. thanks for the reply glenn.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> On a recommendation by Takezo, I am waiting for the delivery of Brimar 5r4gy.  Will be using it with WA6.  Currently have a Princess, but looking for something that has more midrange bloom but still retaining the wide soundstage and detail.  Anybody with experience with the Brimar 5r4gy?
> The more I read about the WA22 posts, the more I want to jump on the upgrade band wagon but before I do that, I want to squeeze the best possible sound from my WA6.  Best possible sound within my system and preferences.


 


  hi yitaro, i'd give the gz32 mullard a try as well. they are relatively inexpensive if you buy used. they have the best midrange bloom imo.


----------



## Yitaro

Thanks Takezo.  I am still looking for the gz32. 
  I got another favor to ask of you Takezo.  I purchased my WA6 used and I think I'm the third owner.  Decided to see what's inside and found out that the unit has v-caps.  The last owner I don't think knows that the unit has the v-cap upgrade.  I would like to know what other upgrades was done the the unit.  Here are the pictures.


----------



## bobeau

Guys, I listed the low hours EML 5u4gm FS in my sig.  Listened to it for another 20 hours, and while it may change some after burn-in the sound signature is quite different than the old 274b solid I'm running and that's the sound I'm going after.
   
  Also am open for a trade w/ a recent production EML 274b (< 200 hrs), would be nice to have as a backup.


----------



## mikemalter

There looks like a sweet pair of Mullard ECC32's up for bid on eBay at http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC33-matched-pair-NOS-NIB/170690147982?ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1&ih=007&category=64629&cmd=ViewItem


----------



## Yitaro

Since Takezo is offline can somebody online help me with my amp.  Just need to know what upgrade was done to the my WA6 from looking at the pictures.
  Thanks,
  Y


----------



## Clayton SF

I didn't know Jack did Vcap mods on the WA6. Perhaps someone else did the mods?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I didn't know Jack did Vcap mods on the WA6. Perhaps someone else did the mods?


 


  He did at one point, my WA6 was maxxed when I go it from Jack.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





takezo said:


> i assumed you were filtering the AC ripple/noise by bypassing the last electrolytic cap in the PS with the film cap; though i usually use something in the 1 to 4.7 uf range. by lowering the ripple, dynamics and resolution seems to improve since any excess noise is filtered out. have you tested the jensen electrolytics by any chance? for an electrolytic cap they are very impressive imo. i will have to try out the sprague atoms in the future. i wouldn't use eletrolytic in the signal pathway either, but the blackgate NX series is an exception. too bad they are no longer made. thanks for the reply glenn.


 

 The problem is the last capacitor in the power supply and the cathode resistor bypass capacitors are in the signal path. That is why I added the poly caps across the last electrolytic
   so it could shunt the audio around the electrolytic. Poly caps will have a much lower ESR then a electrolytic so hopfully most of the audio signal goes through the poly cap insted of
  the electrolitic


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> On a recommendation by Takezo, I am waiting for the delivery of Brimar 5r4gy.  Will be using it with WA6.  Currently have a Princess, but looking for something that has more midrange bloom but still retaining the wide soundstage and detail.  Anybody with experience with the Brimar 5r4gy?
> The more I read about the WA22 posts, the more I want to jump on the upgrade band wagon but before I do that, I want to squeeze the best possible sound from my WA6.  Best possible sound within my system and preferences.


 


   I am running a NOS pair of those Brimar in my WA5-LE and I love them. I have a pair of EML 5U4G, a pair of Mullard GZ37, a pair of RCA 5U4G, a pair of Tungsol 5U4G and I think I prefer the Brimar over the rest with very close second the EML.
   
  The Brimar are sweet, detaild and very dynamic.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> He did at one point, my WA6 was maxxed when I go it from Jack.




I must have missed that boat. Oh well--looking forward to hearing about what Jack will unveil. Are you going to CanJam perchance?


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I didn't know Jack did Vcap mods on the WA6. Perhaps someone else did the mods?


 

 The unit is 2009 according to the serial number.  That's what I am hoping to find out.  I emailed Jack, but he couldn't help me since the unit is order.  The soldering looks professional, nice and clean.


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am running a NOS pair of those Brimar in my WA5-LE and I love them. I have a pair of EML 5U4G, a pair of Mullard GZ37, a pair of RCA 5U4G, a pair of Tungsol 5U4G and I think I prefer the Brimar over the rest with very close second the EML.
> 
> The Brimar are sweet, detaild and very dynamic.


 
  Nice to hear that you like the Brimar more.  How's the mid range?


----------



## Yitaro

Sorry guys for single quote instead of multi-quote reply.  Trying to kill 2 birds with one stone.  Getting my post count up so that I could post a wanted add.  Looking for a 6SE or WA22.  By the way, how many posts do I need? lol


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Thanks Takezo.  I am still looking for the gz32.
> I got another favor to ask of you Takezo.  I purchased my WA6 used and I think I'm the third owner.  Decided to see what's inside and found out that the unit has v-caps.  The last owner I don't think knows that the unit has the v-cap upgrade.  I would like to know what other upgrades was done the the unit.  Here are the pictures.


 

 yitaro, yes those are the $200+/pair v-caps. it will give you a very neutral solid state-like sound with great linear freq range, imo. from the pics it looks like it has the wooaudio's version of jamato's psuedopowersupply. everything else looks stock. the only thing you might want to look into upgrading
 for best sound quality are the four caps i've circled below. the cathode bypass caps. leave the resistors alone, as they won't really improve SQ much, imo. like glenn mentioned, film caps are superior to electrolytics but the cost is prohibitive for 220 uf/ 25v value. i'd recommend the elna silmic II in place of those four stock caps. (about $4 each) any competent tv repair shop should be able to do a simple direct replacement if you provide them the caps.


----------



## Yitaro

Thank you so much Takezo.  Once again you've come through for me. 
  Can I do this upgrade myself?  I can do a decent soldering job.  What value should I get?  Would a more costly cathode bypass caps improve even more?  If so, what should I get.
  Is the upgrade of the bypass caps a simple snip and replace job?
   
  Yitaro


----------



## Yitaro

What about the Black Gate FK series.  I see they have it at Partsconxion for $10 each.  Noob question about the caps, do they have poles? negative/ positive.  Does it matter which metal pole you connect to?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





takezo said:


> yitaro, yes those are the $200+/pair v-caps. it will give you a very neutral solid state-like sound with great linear freq range, imo. from the pics it looks like it has the wooaudio's version of jamato's psuedopowersupply. everything else looks stock. the only thing you might want to look into upgrading
> for best sound quality are the four caps i've circled below. the cathode bypass caps. leave the resistors alone, as they won't really improve SQ much, imo. like Glenn mentioned, film caps are superior to electrolytic but the cost is prohibitive for 220 uf/ 25v value. i'd recommend the elna silmic II in place of those four stock caps. (about $4 each) any competent tv repair shop should be able to do a simple direct replacement if you provide them the caps.


 


 Yes those circled caps are the same ones that the WA-22 uses  Sprague 516D series thah are a very low cost about 25 cents each not so good sounding capacitor.
  I would change them out to something else


----------



## takezo

i wouldn't recommend the FK series as they are not much of an improvement over the stock but more pricey than the elnas. yes, these have
  positive and neg. leads and it does matter which pole they connect to. only the non-polar types are free from this arrangement. the short lead from the cap is the negative pole.(this is for the radial type caps; axial caps will have the neg. sign pointed towards the neg. pole)  four pieces rated at 220uf / 25v is fine. partsconnexion has the elnas for $1.25 each. nice. if you're looking to lighten your wallet, try the solen film caps rated at 220 uf/ 400v at $56 each. i doubt these will sound much better than the elnas or nx blackgates though, and they are huge, so space may be an issue with these giants.
   
  soldering is not the difficult job; it's the desoldering process; you can really do damage to other components if you are not adept at desoldering. the parts are so small and the space inside the amp is rather tight, so i wouldn't recommend it as a first time experiment.  if you're comfortable with the soldering iron and a digita multi meter then go for it. make sure you unplug the amp for at least an hour before you go poking in there. grounding your self with a wrist strap grounding cord is highly recommended. safety over speed.


----------



## Clayton SF

What! My WA22 has 25-cent capacitors in its belly?  It is time for a high-end diet of electronic innards!


----------



## 2359glenn

There is a pair of National union 6F8G Round plate tubes up on E-Bay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-National-Union-6F8G-Tubes-Roundplates-/130567775087?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e6672236f


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There is a pair of National union 6F8G Round plate tubes up on E-Bay
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-National-Union-6F8G-Tubes-Roundplates-/130567775087?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e6672236f


 


  Oh no, please woo owners, please don't bid against me....


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Oh no, please woo owners, please don't bid against me....



I'm staying away. You need to save some of your cash for sake, my friend.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I didn't know Jack did Vcap mods on the WA6. Perhaps someone else did the mods?


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He did at one point, my WA6 was maxxed when I go it from Jack.


 

 My maxed WA6 has Vcaps and Blackgates as well.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Oh no, please woo owners, please don't bid against me....


 

 Me too, I'm staying away as well.  The decks are clear my friend.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> There looks like a sweet pair of Mullard ECC32's up for bid on eBay at http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ECC33-matched-pair-NOS-NIB/170690147982?ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1&ih=007&category=64629&cmd=ViewItem


 


 Where's Rob or Glenn....
  Mike, I don't think these tubes, which are actually ECC33s, are a substitute for ECC32s. I know you're not looking to buy anyway, but if anyone here is interested, I would check before bidding.
  I would rather bid on your Mullard ECC32s


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm staying away. You need to save some of your cash for sake, my friend.


 
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Me too, I'm staying away as well.  The decks are clear my friend.


 

  
  Thank you guys...


----------



## strannik

Don't forget to post some impressions of the Brimar against Sophia. I'd much appreciate hearing what you find, I've been eyeing the Brimar 5r4gy for a while myself and got a Sophia going too. 

   
  Quote: 





yitaro said:


> On a recommendation by Takezo, I am waiting for the delivery of Brimar 5r4gy.  Will be using it with WA6.  Currently have a Princess, but looking for something that has more midrange bloom but still retaining the wide soundstage and detail.  Anybody with experience with the Brimar 5r4gy?
> The more I read about the WA22 posts, the more I want to jump on the upgrade band wagon but before I do that, I want to squeeze the best possible sound from my WA6.  Best possible sound within my system and preferences.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Where's Rob or Glenn....
> Mike, I don't think these tubes, which are actually ECC33s, are a substitute for ECC32s. I know you're not looking to buy anyway, but if anyone here is interested, I would check before bidding.
> I would rather bid on your Mullard ECC32s


 

 Right, Mike must have meant ECC33.  ECC33 is the *actual* European equivalent to the 6SN7 (whereas the ECC32, as we have discussed ad naseum, is not).


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right, Mike must have meant ECC33.  ECC33 is the *actual* European equivalent to the 6SN7 (whereas the ECC32, as we have discussed ad naseum, is not).


 

 Oh, I understand.
  Interesting though that Jack doesn't list the ECC33s here (tube compatability chart)
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## Skylab

nututubes said:


> Oh, I understand.
> Interesting though that Jack doesn't list the ECC33s here (tube compatability chart)
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html




Yeah, for completeness it probably should.  But 6SN7=VT231=CV1988.
 


EDIT: edited for accuracy and to avoid future confusion - ECC33 is not exactly equivalent to the 6SN7,


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, for completeness it probably should.  But 6SN7=VT231=ECC33=CV1988.


 


 Thanks Rob, so noted. BTW, it sounds like you're not a big fan of ECC32s for replacement 6SN7 drivers. I'm thinking of your "ad nauseum comment"


----------



## rosgr63

Rob strictly speaking the ECC33 is not equivalent to the 6SN7.
  Saying that I should also mention that am using it instead of the 6SN7 without any problems.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thank you guys...


 


  Timeline . :
   
  Just woke up. And because I tend to read older posts first, Glenn's post had me headed straight to eBay! But I decided to finish reading the thread before logging on to eBay. Have been hot after that series but it is more of a want, not need. Will watch from the sidelines pulling for our guy!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Rob strictly speaking the ECC33 is not equivalent to the 6SN7.
> Saying that I should also mention that am using it instead of the 6SN7 without any problems.


 

 OK, true, you're right.  But it's much closer than the ECC32 is.  But yes, the datasheet does show some slight variations in the operating points.
   
   
  NuTuTubes, I think the ECC32 can sound GREAT where it can be used.  But it's dangerous for people to think it's an exact equivalent of the 6SN7 because it actually draws MORE heater current from the transformer than the 6SN7 does.  The ECC33 at least draws just slightly less heater current than a true 6SN7.


----------



## mikemalter

This is more of a food for thought type of post since it's only 16 hours into the breakin of Glenn's mods on my WA22.  I'm just thinking out loud here.
   
  Right now I am burning in with the stock tubes that came with the WA22 (been playing around with different tubes in there).  The set includes the russian rectifier, the GE drivers and GE power.  As it is with those tubes, the amp sounds better now than previously with my premium tubes in (and I never burned those tubes in - I just put them in so when I turned on the amp I had something in there to make sure everything worked.  After about an hour, I took them out and they have never been played further).  I have over $800 in tubes in the premium set, not counting spares and others I bought to try to get that sound I'm looking for.
   
  So the thought is, where is money better spent?  If you buy a piece of gear and never spend another penny, that is well and good.  However, if you get a piece of gear as a baseline and then are looking to make incremental improvements over time, is it possible that modifications could be more cost effective than searching for tubes?
   
  Like I said, I'm just thinking out loud and I only have about 16 hours on the mods so the cooking continues and the stew thickens...


----------



## Clayton SF

I can't imagine what the WA22 will now sound like when you replace the stock with premium tubes. We'll have to pull you back to earth, I'd imagine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This is more of a food for thought type of post since it's only 16 hours into the breakin of Glenn's mods on my WA22.  I'm just thinking out loud here.
> 
> Right now I am burning in with the stock tubes that came with the WA22 (been playing around with different tubes in there).  The set includes the russian rectifier, the GE drivers and GE power.  As it is with those tubes, the amp sounds better now than previously with my premium tubes in (and I never burned those tubes in - I just put them in so when I turned on the amp I had something in there to make sure everything worked.  After about an hour, I took them out and they have never been played further).  I have over $800 in tubes in the premium set, not counting spares and others I bought to try to get that sound I'm looking for.
> 
> ...


 

 Your thought, is a healthy one. Some of us have pondered this question. Modifications could very well be more cost effective. But in my view (inside this humble listening room) it is certainly case dependent. And sometimes one cannot know without taking the adventure down either path, despite watching what other users with similar gear have done. 
   
  Me? I enjoy music and adventure... this hobby affords both.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> There is a pair of National union 6F8G Round plate tubes up on E-Bay
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-National-Union-6F8G-Tubes-Roundplates-/130567775087?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e6672236f


 


  Wow those are beautiful.  Original boxes too....


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> On a recommendation by Takezo, I am waiting for the delivery of Brimar 5r4gy.  Will be using it with WA6.  Currently have a Princess, but looking for something that has more midrange bloom but still retaining the wide soundstage and detail.  Anybody with experience with the Brimar 5r4gy?
> The more I read about the WA22 posts, the more I want to jump on the upgrade band wagon but before I do that, I want to squeeze the best possible sound from my WA6.  Best possible sound within my system and preferences.


 


  I've preached the virtues of the Brimar 5R4 on a number of occasions here.  An underrated tube IMO which offers a nice mix of 5U4G and 274B sound.  I'm using mine right now actually.  In answer to your non-quoted question about midrange, I find it really depends upon which driver tubes it is paired with.  It strikes me as mostly neutral, and a little bit forward in the vocal range, but has a brush of warmth and gives great body and definition to the sound.  Perhaps "organic without being euphoric" might be a good way to put it.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Wow those are beautiful.  Original boxes too....


 


  Geez... that expensive already?
   
  I guess I should hold onto my pair a little longer...


----------



## Clayton SF

I purchased a matching set of tubes from a reputable dealer. They were advertised as matching Tung-Sols but internally their construction differs slightly. One has an oval mica and the other is rectangular. The seller said that these Tung-Sols are a matching pair (as in matched ma). Do you think that it is going to make a difference sonically? When a seller advertises a matched pair I think exact copy but I guess that is nearly impossible unless they also advertise their tubes as having matching date code, plant code, etc.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I purchased a matching set of tubes from a reputable dealer. They were advertised as matching Tung-Sols but internally their construction differs slightly. One has an oval mica and the other is rectangular. The seller said that these Tung-Sols are a matching pair (as in matched ma). Do you think that it is going to make a difference sonically? When a seller say matched I think exact copy but I guess that is nearly impossible unless they advertise their tubes as having matching date code, plant code, etc.


 

 Sometimes the seller means that what is measured, matches published specification ranges for the tube, and not matched between tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Where's Rob or Glenn....
> Mike, I don't think these tubes, which are actually ECC33s, are a substitute for ECC32s. I know you're not looking to buy anyway, but if anyone here is interested, I would check before bidding.
> I would rather bid on your Mullard ECC32s


 


 Neither the ECC32 or ECC33 are a 6SN7
   
                       Filament        plate current        gain
  6SN7            6.3  .6A             20ma                20
  ECC32          6.3  .95A            6ma                 32
  ECC33          6.3  .4A              9ma                 35
   
  with a ECC32 you risk over heating the power transformer if it is not over rated a little
  I don't see a problem with the ECC33 less filament current and in a WA-22 the 6SN7 is run at low current
  I would not try ether one of these tubes in a WA-6 or WA5-SE those amps use 1/2 of the tube as the power output
  and draw to much current these amps will burn these tubes up


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thank you guys...


 

 You won the bid, John?
   
  2 NOS National Union 6F8G Tubes (Roundplates) 
   
   





 3***4( 28
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)  US $164.70


----------



## Silent One

CONGRATS jc9394!


----------



## jc9394

yes, they are mine now. i will have a lot of comparisons next weekend. need to compare the gec 6ad7g, suppose last weekend but irene sidetracked me and leave with no juice for 8 hours on last sunday. now need to compare the ts, nu, ans sylvania 6f8g.

off topic, crackberry playbook sucks, took me double the time to type this compare to ipad or android tablet


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yes, they are mine now. i will have a lot of comparisons next weekend. need to compare the gec 6ad7g, suppose last weekend but irene sidetracked me and leave with no juice for 8 hours on last sunday. now need to compare the ts, nu, ans sylvania 6f8g.


 


 Wow, what a bunch of toy to play with, drooling............................


----------



## jc9394

unfortunately the gec is not a great match for lcd-2, i have to use hd800


----------



## Skylab

jc9394 said:


> unfortunately the gec is not a great match for lcd-2, i have to use hd800




In the WA22, that was my experience as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yes, they are mine now. i will have a lot of comparisons next weekend. need to compare the gec 6ad7g, suppose last weekend but irene sidetracked me and leave with no juice for 8 hours on last sunday. now need to compare the ts, nu, ans sylvania 6f8g.
> 
> off topic, crackberry playbook sucks, took me double the time to type this compare to ipad or android tablet


 


  In all your excitement next weekend, don't forget the pix!


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Don't forget to post some impressions of the Brimar against Sophia. I'd much appreciate hearing what you find, I've been eyeing the Brimar 5r4gy for a while myself and got a Sophia going too.


 
   
  I'll do that once I receive my Brimar. 
  I'm currently running Sophia with Sylvania 6DE7 and to me this combo is hard to beat.  Fast transient with tight bass (not as much as RCA 6DE7) but to me the midrange is much better than the RCA.  You are closer to the stage compare to the RCA.  Picked up Metallica Black Album today and man...the kick drum on the opening track is just amazing.  For the first time the volume knob on my WA6 went pass 1 o'clock.  My head was banging...I was back in High School.


----------



## jc9394

skylab said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > unfortunately the gec is not a great match for lcd-2, i have to use hd800
> ...





silent one said:


> In all your excitement next weekend, don't forget the pix!




It is missing the dynamic that I have with 5998 and the GEC is kinda of soft with LCD-2. Probably not enough current/power for LCD-2 but with HD800, it is a killer combo.

Will do SilentOne


----------



## jc9394

yitaro said:


> I'll do that once I receive my Brimar.
> I'm currently running Sophia with Sylvania 6DE7 and to me this combo is hard to beat.  Fast transient with tight bass (not as much as RCA 6DE7) but to me the midrange is much better than the RCA.  You are closer to the stage compare to the RCA.  Picked up Metallica Black Album today and man...the kick drum on the opening track is just amazing.  For the first time the volume knob on my WA6 went pass 1 o'clock.  My head was banging...I was back in High School.




Try Mullard GZ34/37 with 6FD7 with your HD600/800, it is the best tube combo that I tried when I have the WA6. Just ping Jack to make sure you can use 6FD7 on your WA6. I know some older 6se cannot use it but not sure on the 6.


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try Mullard GZ34/37 with 6FD7 with your HD600/800, it is the best tube combo that I tried when I have the WA6. Just ping Jack to make sure you can use 6FD7 on your WA6. I know some older 6se cannot use it but not sure on the 6.


 
  Thanks jc9393.  I have 6FD7 and 6EW7 both fat bottle in transit right now.  Should receive it shortly.  I didn't know that 6FD7 might be an issue with WA6.  Can someone confirm the compatibility of WA6 and 6FD7 for me.
  Maybe someday I'll get my hand on a Mullard GZ34, but for now my money is put away for the next Woo upgrade.  Maybe a WA22.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Thanks jc9393.  I have 6FD7 and 6EW7 both fat bottle in transit right now.  Should receive it shortly.  I didn't know that 6FD7 might be an issue with WA6.  Can someone confirm the compatibility of WA6 and 6FD7 for me.
> Maybe someday I'll get my hand on a Mullard GZ34, but for now my money is put away for the next Woo upgrade.  Maybe a WA22.


 


 If my memory is right, the 6FD7 is not recommend use in the WA6 and WA6SE in early production.
   
  EDIT. Sorry, I'm wrong, from the previous page that nututubes was post the compatabile chart below of Woo's amp, you can see it is not compatible with early production of WA6SE only.
   
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> If my memory is right, the 6FD7 is not recommend use in the WA6 and WA6SE in early production.
> 
> EDIT. Sorry, I'm wrong, from the previous page that nututubes was post the compatabile chart below of Woo's amp, you can see it is not compatible with early production of WA6SE only.
> 
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


 

 Thanks dannie01 for the link.
  I am listening to Ray LaMontagne & The Pariah Dogs album "God Willin & The Creek Don't Rise" through my WA6 and HD650.  This has to be one of the best recorded album I've ever heard.  Great imaging and sound stage.  Instruments are clearly placed and separated.  His voice is smooth as butter.  For those of you who haven't heard this album yet, give it a try.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Thanks dannie01 for the link.
> I am listening to Ray LaMontagne & The Pariah Dogs album "God Willin & The Creek Don't Rise" through my WA6 and HD650.  This has to be one of the best recorded album I've ever heard.  Great imaging and sound stage.  Instruments are clearly placed and separated.  His voice is smooth as butter.  For those of you who haven't heard this album yet, give it a try.


 
  Was just going to reach for that CD.  Haven't heard it yet.  Just picked it up from my local library.


----------



## shipsupt

Sylvania fat bottle blackplate 6FD7's are the go to drivers for me in the 6SE.  They are the only tubes that let me enjoy the LCD-2's from the 6SE, although I must admit that when I listen to them now it's predominantly with the Pioneer SX-950.  The 6FD7's are wonderful with the HD-600.  I've been mixing up pairing rectifiers, so the jury is out on that front, but I've never been disappointed combining them with the EML or Princess.
   
  I've got some 6EW7's that need to get some attention and evaluation, but it's hard to pull the 6FD7's out because they sound so good.
   
   
  For the last week I've been trying to find some tubes that synergize well with the Grado camp.  The GS-1000 is a new addition for me and I've been trying to get acquainted with them while pairing them up with the Woo at the same time.  Does anyone have advice on any nice combinations to get the most from the Grado line and the 6SE?
   
   

  
  Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Thanks jc9393.  I have 6FD7 and 6EW7 both fat bottle in transit right now.  Should receive it shortly.  I didn't know that 6FD7 might be an issue with WA6.  Can someone confirm the compatibility of WA6 and 6FD7 for me.
> Maybe someday I'll get my hand on a Mullard GZ34, but for now my money is put away for the next Woo upgrade.  Maybe a WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Was just going to reach for that CD.  Haven't heard it yet.  Just picked it up from my local library.


 
   
  I had never heard of him before Chris over at CA mentioned him this summer. He'll be at The Greek theater (LA) on 10 September. But after checking out a couple of tunes via Y-Tube, don't think it's my cup of tea though I'm sure he's got talent. However, to continue my thought, there is something to be said about Live Music. In times past, I have been invited to different musical events and concerts and despite not particularly liking material from some of these artists, a good live performance change things quickly! 
   
  So, I have learned to keep an open mind because sometimes there may be a reason why you're unable to connect to a sound or an artist. I like emotion and sometimes recorded sound fails to deliver. It really is fun to recall how you didn't care much for something and at a later date you're ALL UP IN IT!


----------



## grokit

They do a great job with this song too:


----------



## WarriorAnt

"Lessons Learned"  From Rays Till The Sun Turns Black.     Very well recorded...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I had never heard of him before Chris over at CA mentioned him this summer. He'll be at The Greek theater (LA) on 10 September. But after checking out a couple of tunes via Y-Tube, don't think it's my cup of tea though I'm sure he's got talent. However, to continue my thought, there is something to be said about Live Music. In times past, I have been invited to different musical events and concerts and despite not particularly liking material from some of these artists, a good live performance change things quickly!
> 
> So, I have learned to keep an open mind because sometimes there may be a reason why you're unable to connect to a sound or an artist. I like emotion and sometimes recorded sound fails to deliver. It really is fun to recall how you didn't care much for something and at a later date you're ALL UP IN IT!


 

 I bet he's great live...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> "Lessons Learned"  From Rays Till The Sun Turns Black.     Very well recorded...


 

 I'm looking into ordering this one.
   
  I've been listening to: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/songs/id447232927


----------



## strannik

The 6FD7 works just fine in most WA6s. I believe the early versions of WA6 could not support fat bottle tubes due to the size of the socket opening and needed an adapter. Wonderful driver tubes by the way, a bit light on bass but so detailed and dynamic. 
  
  Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Thanks jc9393.  I have 6FD7 and 6EW7 both fat bottle in transit right now.  Should receive it shortly.  I didn't know that 6FD7 might be an issue with WA6.  Can someone confirm the compatibility of WA6 and 6FD7 for me.
> Maybe someday I'll get my hand on a Mullard GZ34, but for now my money is put away for the next Woo upgrade.  Maybe a WA22.


----------



## Clayton SF

Has anyone noticed the benefits with tubes that are black glass as opposed to clear glass? It seems that the earlier tubes almost always used black glass. Black glass, black plates--obviously there are benefits because these tubes command premium prices over their, non-black varieties.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Don't know if this was posted here yet.   Is anyone using this tube from Woo with the LCD-2 r.2?
   
   
1 matched pair of 6DN7/6EM7 plus one pair of 6DE7->6EM7 Teflon tube adapters. $110 (2 tubes + 2 adapters)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Don't know if this was posted here yet.   Is anyone using this tube from Woo with the LCD-2 r.2?
> 
> 
> 1 matched pair of 6DN7/6EM7 plus one pair of 6DE7->6EM7 Teflon tube adapters. $110 (2 tubes + 2 adapters)


 


  Does this suggest you're on track for a September purchase? If you lean any closer you'll be in Wooville City Limits!


----------



## shipsupt

Mine are in the mail from Jack as we speak.  I am hoping they arrive before the long weekend... So impressions soon, but only for the LCD-2 r.1.
 


warriorant said:


> Don't know if this was posted here yet.   Is anyone using this tube from Woo with the LCD-2 r.2?
> 
> 
> 1 matched pair of 6DN7/6EM7 plus one pair of 6DE7->6EM7 Teflon tube adapters. $110 (2 tubes + 2 adapters)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does this suggest you're on track for a September purchase? If you lean any closer you'll be in Wooville City Limits!


 

 Got to wait until near end of October when the desert heats kicks back down to human level to run a tube amp.  Right now averaging 110 everyday so I'm still in Satan's heat.   Woo 6 SE is a thought.  Was considering the WA2 but not sure if it has the amount of detail I need but from what I can ascertain it has that beautiful tube sound while the 6 SE is more detailed.
   
  Waiting to see what Shiit puts out.   Was interested in the Lyr but I'm afraid it is more brute then finesse.  All I ever read about it is that it has power but never a mention of the delicacies of sound.  Plus tube rolling with owners seems endless (even more than Woo owners) and everyone seems to reach a different conclusion.
   
  Red Wine Audio will be placing a new amp on the market end of September, the Corvina.  Has both SE and balanced outs.  Not balanced ins so it makes me wonder.
   
  Am also interested in the  Svetlana 2 from Analog Design Labs.

 So everything is still up in the air.   Would prefer an amp that doesn't roll much but I guess that like blasphemy or something similar in tube circles.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Got to wait until near end of October when the desert heats kicks back down to human level to run a tube amp.  Right now averaging 110 everyday so I'm still in Satan's heat.   Woo 6 SE is a thought.  Was considering the WA2 but not sure if it has the amount of detail I need but from what I can ascertain it has that beautiful tube sound while the 6 SE is more detailed.
> 
> Waiting to see what Shiit puts out.   Was interested in the Lyr but I'm afraid it is more brute then finesse.  All I ever read about it is that it has power but never a mention of the delicacies of sound.  Plus tube rolling with owners seems endless (even more than Woo owners) and everyone seems to reach a different conclusion.
> 
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

So my 5AR4 Mullard arrived today and I've got to say that I am very impressed with this little tube. Compared to my Sophia Princess (274B), it's tiny, but the sound is just as big.
   
  I think the Sophia Princess has slightly better dynamics and attack, while the Mullard has a more natural overall tone to it. I do prefer both to either my Sylvania or Raytheon 5U4G.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Got to wait until near end of October when the desert heats kicks back down to human level to run a tube amp.  Right now averaging 110 everyday


 

  That being the case maybe you should look into getting air conditioning before you look at amps.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> That being the case maybe you should look into getting air conditioning before you look at amps.


 

 There's never enough air conditioning in the desert ever!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But the worst is over. We've past the steady 115-118-120 degree days and we're sort of ramping down between 100 to 110. Might even drop to 105 by tuesday.  Come to think of it a tube amp might actually be cooler than the ambient temperature!  I'll  have to look into that concept.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> There's never enough air conditioning in the desert ever!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You could even use your tube amp to AC your air then!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You could even use your tube amp to AC your air then!


 

 Might have to go for the Mini Torii then.  That thing is a forest of tubes!


----------



## jc9394

fyi woo owners, moon-audio have the lcd-2 on sale this weekend  10% off


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Might have to go for the Mini Torii then.  That thing is a forest of tubes!


 
  I expect one with headphone option.
   
  I just hit the <$100 headphone category. I got the AKG K181DJ. I heard Deep Funk's in Amsterdam and was thoroughly impressed. Got them for portable use but I am now using them with the Leben. Incredible impact and the mids are well represented. Right now the highs are grainy but I just got them via FedEx and they are about 1.5 hours old in the burning.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have the Mini Torii SE-X on order. Expected the end of September. I will keep you informed. I got the headphone option. I just received a matched pair of Tung-Sol 6V6 blackglass to go with the mini-t. And just to hit the <$100 headphone category I got the AKG K181DJ. I heard Deep Funk's in Amsterdam and was thoroughly impressed. Got them for portable use but I am now using them on the Leben. Incredible impact and the mids are well represented. Right now the highs are grainy but I just got them via FedEx and they are about 1.5 hours old in the burning.


 

 Clayton you're acquiring way too much stuff.  As soon as I find out where you are located I'm coming over to take some of it off your hands.  You're going to have to get a pair of LCD's now for that Mini Torii...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Clayton you're acquiring way too much stuff.  As soon as I find out where you are located I'm coming over to take some of it off your hands.  You're going to have to get a pair of LCD's now for that Mini Torii...


 
  I know. Come over. I should never be left alone in a strange country with nothing to do but peruse the Internet between beers. Never again.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Clayton you're acquiring way too much stuff.  As soon as I find out where you are located I'm coming over to take some of it off your hands.  You're going to have to get a pair of LCD's now for that Mini Torii...


 
  When you do, bring some furniture.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> When you do, bring some furniture.




Furniture is overrated, who needs it when you have a headphone amp museum.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> When you do, bring some furniture.


 
  LOL. I have no furniture. I now sleep on the roof of my apartment.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Seriously. An investment to say the least. My brother-in-law doesn't know what to do with my hand-me-down amps.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/415214/the-leben-cs300xs-thread/915#post_7727866


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> When you do, bring some furniture.


 
  You mean boxes and packing material....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You mean boxes and packing material....


 
  I actually own just an iPod (1st Gen from 2001) and nothing else. I have fabricated everything. Every amp. Every memory. Everything. Bwahaha!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> LOL. I have no furniture. I now sleep on the roof of my apartment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Priority ~
   
  The first thing some might do, upon receiving an invitation to your showroom, is to check their schedule for availability. Me? The first thing I'd do is "Status" your Book, without a doubt! Checking for Current amp inventory; Shipped; Ordered; Pre-Ordered. And then make some decisions on when to descend upon "_The City that knows how."  _



_  _Great shot of the Leben/AKG, by the way...


----------



## spagetka

Here are some pictures...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Here are some pictures...


 


  Thanks for the wonderful photos. Thanks for bringing us in. I don't recall seeing double rings before stacked like that... may have but don't remember. No concern you could be over-damping? I'm sure your ears will let you know quickly. Did you try a pair and then thought to see what another pair could do? Have a great Sunday, spagetka!


----------



## spagetka

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the wonderful photos. Thanks for bringing us in. I don't recall seeing double rings before stacked like that... may have but don't remember. No concern you could be over-damping? I'm sure your ears will let you know quickly. Did you try a pair and then thought to see what another pair could do? Have a great Sunday, spagetka!


 

 I was playing with dampers for a while - no/duende/duende+mvq o rings. After all experiments I can say that WA5 with all dampers sounds without any kind of stress - very very natural.
   
  For those who would like to try dampers - give a chance to cheaper silicon/mvq rings - they definitely do their job.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> I was playing with dampers for a while - no/duende/duende+mvq o rings. After all experiments I can say that WA5 with all dampers sounds without any kind of stress - very very natural.
> 
> For those who would like to try dampers - give a chance to cheaper silicon/mvq rings - they definitely do their job.


 

 Spagetka,
   
  Sometimes a tube will sound like there is something extra, kind of too busy.  Would dampers help with that?


----------



## mikemalter

Interesting tube landscape change as I continue to breakin v-caps in Glenn's mods.
   
  I'm playing Sylvania 7236 / Shuguang Treasures / Sophia, and I am finding that unlike my previous impressions of this tube set, it is very clear and easy to listen to.  This set of tubes I have not really listened to much as I gave most of my listening time to GEC 6AS7G / TungSol BGRP / EML set.  They mostly sat in the background, and I selected them for burn-in duty.  This is surprising to me because previously I found their combined sound a little ragged, but not so now.
   
  Last night I thought, I'd take out the Sophia and move my EML into the mix, and it was like the EML was bringing too much information to the table, it seemed out of place (I'm wondering if dampning would be good here and was interestedin what Spagetka had to say about it).  I'm only at 64 hours into break-in, but there does not seem to be any sonic changes as there was when breaking in something like the DAC-2 where the sonic signature would be all over the map.  The amp sounds the same right now as it did the first time I played it when I got it back from Glenn.  For others who have broken in v-caps, did your sonics change?


----------



## Yitaro

takezo said:


> yitaro, yes those are the $200+/pair v-caps. it will give you a very neutral solid state-like sound with great linear freq range, imo. from the pics it looks like it has the wooaudio's version of jamato's psuedopowersupply. everything else looks stock. the only thing you might want to look into upgrading
> for best sound quality are the four caps i've circled below. the cathode bypass caps. leave the resistors alone, as they won't really improve SQ much, imo. like glenn mentioned, film caps are superior to electrolytics but the cost is prohibitive for 220 uf/ 25v value. i'd recommend the elna silmic II in place of those four stock caps. (about $4 each) any competent tv repair shop should be able to do a simple direct replacement if you provide them the caps.



Hi Takezo,
Forgot to ask you what kind of improvement will I see with the caps upgrade?
Just placed an order for the recommended caps. Should be here Monday. Will see, once I open up the WA6 if I will do the caps upgrade myself. For de-soldering, I have the braided de-soldering wire. Is this good enough or do I need to get the vacuum one?
For iron, I have the 30 W unit, not the multi-wattage station. Is the 30 W too hot for this soldering job?
Thanks.


----------



## spagetka

Yes exactly, like the tube is struggeling. Dampers help with this stress. Better detail, dynamic and soundstage. Instruments are also better separated. I have found the sound with the dampers in every aspect better.
  
  Try silicon/MVQ ones and you will see - they cost few bucks.
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Spagetka,
> 
> Sometimes a tube will sound like there is something extra, kind of too busy.  Would dampers help with that?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Hi Takezo,
> Forgot to ask you what kind of improvement will I see with the caps upgrade?
> Just placed an order for the recommended caps. Should be here Monday. Will see, once I open up the WA6 if I will do the caps upgrade myself. For de-soldering, I have the braided de-soldering wire. Is this good enough or do I need to get the vacuum one?
> For iron, I have the 30 W unit, not the multi-wattage station. Is the 30 W too hot for this soldering job?
> Thanks.


 



 hi, you should hear an immediate improvement in clarity and transparency. it will seem like the gain/volume has gone up as well. this is the
  dynamics being extended; the distance from silence to forte. you will hear better separation of notes and even complex/fast passages will
  seem less congested. of course the headphone you use will have a bearing on this. it will probably be more noticeable with high resolution
  phones like the orthodynamics.
   
  i use the braided copper wire for desoldering point to point soldering. the vacuum sticks are better suited for circuit boards.
  the 30w station is fine. try to use good quality solder; cheaper types go bad quicker. watch out for those cold solder joints, using the
  dmm here is the only way to be sure. make sure you're getting comparable voltages from both channels after the soldering job is done.
  if this is your first try at an amp, i'd recommend you practice desoldering and soldering prior to working on the amp. it's very tight and
  cramp in there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





takezo said:


> this is the dynamics being extended; the distance from silence to forte.


 
   
  This, more than anything, is what I've always felt my WA6 lacks.  I had always planned on selling mine after upgrading to a WA22 to quickly get me into a pair of LCD-2s..... but I'm starting to think it might be fun to keep it around and try my hand at some mods to see what potential can be wrung out of it.  Only trouble is, I trust myself with a soldering iron about as much as I would trust myself holding a live grenade.


----------



## Yitaro

takezo said:


> hi, you should hear an immediate improvement in clarity and transparency. it will seem like the gain/volume has gone up as well. this is the
> dynamics being extended; the distance from silence to forte. you will hear better separation of notes and even complex/fast passages will
> seem less congested. of course the headphone you use will have a bearing on this. it will probably be more noticeable with high resolution
> phones like the orthodynamics.
> ...



Thank you Takezo. Those are the improvements I'm looking for. 
How do I go about checking for the voltage? Do I check at the headphone end since I could unplugged my HD650 cable. Can you guide me as to where I measure the voltage of the two channel. Much appreciated.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Thank you Takezo. Those are the improvements I'm looking for.
> How do I go about checking for the voltage? Do I check at the headphone end since I could unplugged my HD650 cable. Can you guide me as to where I measure the voltage of the two channel. Much appreciated.


 
   
  no, after the replacement of the caps place the ground pin from your dmm to any part of the ground (red color).
  then power the amp up and test each cap using the positive pin of the dmm to the lead wires of the four caps one at a time (yellow)
  the left and right pair should have relatively same voltage (put dmm at low dc voltage setting) just be careful not to
  touch the other wires while doing this, as it will cause a short if you do.
   
  if this is completely foreign to you, you may want to let a technician take care of this. any tv repair shop can handle this.


----------



## Yitaro

takezo said:


> no, after the replacement of the caps place the ground pin from your dmm to any part of the ground (red color).
> then power the amp up and test each cap using the positive pin of the dmm to the lead wires of the four caps one at a time (yellow)
> the left and right pair should have relatively same voltage (put dmm at low dc voltage setting) just be careful not to
> touch the other wires while doing this, as it will cause a short if you do.
> ...



Love your tutorial, especially the overlay drawing. Leave no chance for mistakes. By the way, what program are you using to draw the overlay? I have a Mac.
Thanks to your instructions I am now confident enough to tackle the mod. Will post some pics when I am done.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Yes exactly, like the tube is struggeling. Dampers help with this stress. Better detail, dynamic and soundstage. Instruments are also better separated. I have found the sound with the dampers in every aspect better.
> 
> Try silicon/MVQ ones and you will see - they cost few bucks.


 

 Where do you buy silicon/MVQ dampners?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Love your tutorial, especially the overlay drawing. Leave no chance for mistakes. By the way, what program are you using to draw the overlay? I have a Mac.
> Thanks to your instructions I am now confident enough to tackle the mod. Will post some pics when I am done.


 


  a simple program called corel paint shop on a pc. good luck on the project. pm me if you have additional questions or requests.


----------



## spagetka

I bought them localy here in CZE - http://www.hyhlan.cz/eshop-kategorie-o.html
   
  I think that you can google *silicone+o+rings*. Please note that you should buy ones with inner dimension 1 or 2 millimeters less than the tube diameter because silicone can be stretched a bit.  

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Where do you buy silicon/MVQ dampners?


----------



## fishski13

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Love your tutorial, especially the overlay drawing. Leave no chance for mistakes. By the way, what program are you using to draw the overlay? I have a Mac.
> Thanks to your instructions I am now confident enough to tackle the mod. Will post some pics when I am done.


 


  Yitaro,
  have you worked with high voltage B+ before?  there are potentially lethal voltages inside this amp.  does anybody know what the B+ is in this amp?


----------



## Yitaro

fishski13 said:


> Yitaro,
> have you worked with high voltage B+ before?  there are potentially lethal voltages inside this amp.  does anybody know what the B+ is in this amp?



O.K. Fishski13 your scaring me. I thought if you leave the amp unplugged over night, any voltage that is left would be all drained. Can you clarify what is voltage +B. 
This is my first time working with tube amp. Thank you for the heads up.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





fishski13 said:


> does anybody know what the B+ is in this amp?


 

 it's approx. 170v


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> O.K. Fishski13 your scaring me. I thought if you leave the amp unplugged over night, any voltage that is left would be all drained. Can you clarify what is voltage +B.
> This is my first time working with tube amp. Thank you for the heads up.


 


  all of the caps in the wa6 discharges unlike some output caps in otl amps. give it a couple of hours after unplugging it. you can discharge any remaining voltages from the caps by placing a 56k resistor in parallel to each caps for several minutes. wearing insulated gloves is a good safety measure as well. if you're unsure about what you're doing, take it to the tv repair shop, please.


----------



## Yitaro

takezo said:


> all of the caps in the wa6 discharges unlike some output caps in otl amps. give it a couple of hours after unplugging it. you can discharge
> any remaining voltages from the caps by placing a 56k resistor in parallel to each caps for several minutes. wearing isolated gloves is
> a good safety measure as well. if you're unsure about what you're doing, take it to the tv repair shop, please.



Hey Takezo,
The nearest tv repair is 6 hours away. I live in the boonie. It's the reason why I would like to do the mod myself. I would like to learn more about the internal working of the tube amp. I am already learning quite a bit from posters like you. I am the type that likes to tinker.


----------



## takezo

yitaro, i hear you. that's how i got started as well. take your time in doing your project. read up all you can find and, most importantly, ask questions before jumping in the deep side. i wouldn't recommend anyone doing a complete recap of the power supply on this amp as a first time project but what you're about to do is fairly simple and the voltages reaching the cathode bypass caps is less than 10 volts. just be careful not to touch the bigger power supply caps with any metal probes accidentally. take precautions and good luck.


----------



## fishski13

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> O.K. Fishski13 your scaring me. I thought if you leave the amp unplugged over night, any voltage that is left would be all drained. Can you clarify what is voltage +B.
> This is my first time working with tube amp. Thank you for the heads up.


 

 follow takezo's advice.  yes, you're only monkeying around with the lower V cathode caps, but i just wanted to make sure you understood the voltages at hand and the need to make sure the B+ caps are at a safe level before poking around.  i wasn't sure if the Woo had bleeder resistors or not just by looking at the pics.  i always as a course of habit just bleed the caps.  waiting is perfectly fine, but take some B+ readings as a safety measure.


----------



## bobeau

Are tube dampers something that always work?  If I place my fingers on top of the tubes I hear no sonic difference.  
   
  If basic o-rings work, could I just use some rubberbands here in the office as a test? 
   
  (Apologies ahead of time for the likely moronic questions/observations.)


----------



## Clayton SF

I believe that silicone rings can withstand the heat produced by the tubes and rubber bands will not. You may end up melting the bands to your tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Battle of the kings...


 

 The result is in, the round based win by a nose.  Both are very very similar on all aspect except the round based on have slight more base at the lower end which is perfect match with the HD800.  The round based on will on on the amp most of the time while the straight based one will be my backup.


----------



## Clayton SF

So now you can send the ones without the round base to me!!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The result is in, the round based win by a nose.  Both are very very similar on all aspect except the round based on have slight more base at the lower end which is perfect match with the HD800.  The round based on will on on the amp most of the time while the straight based one will be my backup.


 

 Nice John.  Very similar to my experience as well.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I believe that silicone rings can withstand the heat produced by the tubes and rubber bands will not. You may end up melting the bands to your tubes.


 

 Noted.  Guess my thought is the tubes aren't particularly hot, ie. I can touch them for a good second or two after being fully warmed up.  Have a class-A guitar amp running EL-84s that would sear my flesh on instant contact.
   
  Gave it a shot, they're holding up fine after a couple hours, no smell of burning rubber, no melting on the tubes.  Likely the heat will cause them to wear out pretty quickly though. Not sure if I'm hearing any improvement.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Noted.  Guess my thought is the tubes aren't particularly hot, ie. I can touch them for a good second or two after being fully warmed up.  Have a class-A guitar amp running EL-84s that would sear my flesh on instant contact.
> 
> Gave it a shot, they're holding up fine after a couple hours, no smell of burning rubber, no melting on the tubes.  Likely the heat will cause them to wear out pretty quickly though. Not sure if I'm hearing any improvement.


 


  Material and Tension might come in to play...


----------



## Silent One

Vibration control . :
   
  Anyone successfully complete isolating the transformer inside the chassis of their Woo instead of isolating the entire amp/power supply from underneath?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Noted.  Guess my thought is the tubes aren't particularly hot, ie. I can touch them for a good second or two after being fully warmed up.  Have a class-A guitar amp running EL-84s that would sear my flesh on instant contact.
> 
> Gave it a shot, they're holding up fine after a couple hours, no smell of burning rubber, no melting on the tubes.  Likely the heat will cause them to wear out pretty quickly though. Not sure if I'm hearing any improvement.


 
  I don't think rubber bands will have the same effect as a silicone dampener, which is intended to nullify minute vibrations in the glass by absorbing them.  A rubber band won't have the same dampening properties.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I don't think rubber bands will have the same effect as a silicone dampener, which is intended to nullify minute vibrations in the glass by absorbing them.  A rubber band won't have the same dampening properties.


 

  
  You're exactly right, they won't. I tried to suggest as much using five words or less... and still went over.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're exactly right, they won't. I tried to suggest as much using five words or less... and still went over.


 

 Unless his rubber bands are very thick and made of... wait for it... silicone.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Unless his rubber bands are very thick and made of... wait for it... silicone.


 


  But then, wouldn't they cease being Rubber Bands? Seeing Bootsy & his Rubber Band Live-in concert a few times was fantastic, by the way!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (along with Parliament - Funkadelic)


----------



## jc9394

How many hours does the National Union 6F8G needs for burn in?  They arrived yesterday and it sounds thin and off compare to my TS.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Can anybody fill me in on the proper warmup time for most of Woo's line? Depending on my budget I'm going to get either the 6-SE or the 5-LE. Thanks guys!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Can anybody fill me in on the proper warmup time for most of Woo's line? Depending on my budget I'm going to get either the 6-SE or the 5-LE. Thanks guys!


 


  15 minutes but I usually listen to it once it power up?  Any reason not looking at the WA22?


----------



## grokit

Warmup time is like a minute, I like to give it a few if I can. Proper on/off power cycling is another matter entirely and many of us like to allow an hour for that.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Can anybody fill me in on the proper warmup time for most of Woo's line? Depending on my budget I'm going to get either the 6-SE or the 5-LE. Thanks guys!


 

 Around 15 minutes give or take depending on the tubes I have in there.  Some take longer to settle down than others.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How many hours does the National Union 6F8G needs for burn in?  They arrived yesterday and it sounds thin and off compare to my TS.


 

 Good question. I purchased a brand new pair of NIB Ken-Rad VT-99 (boxes still had the staples in the ends). I've been using them full time for the last couple of weeks, so I would guess I have about 50 hours on them.  They've improved from when I was first using them, so I don't know if they will still get better or not. Comparing them to my Sylvania 6F8G (purchased used, as pulls), I would say the Ken-Rad's are still a notch below. I'm hoping they're continuing to break-in. I will say, they did sound a bit thin when I first got them. Now they don't sound too bad at all.


----------



## jc9394

My BGRP took around 200 hours, I will cook the NU for same hours.


----------



## Silent One

NOS 1953 GE 6SN7GTA ~
   
  0 - 75 Hours, could have thrown them out!  75 - 150 Hours finally came on song.  150+ Hours the tubes got right...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> My BGRP took around 200 hours, I will cook the NU for same hours.


 


  Even a fine meal can be rushed, but that's not what we want, now is it? The best is yet to come....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Can anybody fill me in on the proper warmup time for most of Woo's line? Depending on my budget I'm going to get either the 6-SE or the 5-LE. Thanks guys!


 


  What many in this space consider to be 'proper' warm-up, I consider to be proper at minimum. And I look at warming up the system as a whole, not just the amp. This is because there are other factors to consider: Roll-in a seldom used tube? Length of time since system last played? Cable, gear, accessory swaps? The movement, arrangement of cables & gear? I mention these factors to give you an idea of my view (and mine only) that warm up will vary from session to session.
   
  If I need more than my one hour minimum, I simply plan for it with delight and anticipation. Like fine food and beverage, I make time for my consumption of music.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, the good old days. I don't ever remember my father burning in tubes after he sent me to the local radio store to buy replacement tubes for his stereo. And to think he was just trying to play the Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's. He used to ask me to crawl behind the console and look to see which tubes were not glowing. Then he'd turn off the stereo (Motorola) and I would pull the suspect tube out, get on my bicycle and ride down to the store, go to the tube tester located right by the entrance of the radio shop, look at the slick easy-chart showing me which socket to stick the sucker in, stick it in the tube tester, confirm it was dead--"yep dead tube alright" and then ask the clerk for a replacement. I'd buy the replacement, get back on my bicycle and hand the tube and the receipt and the change to my dad. Then he'd hand me back the tube and I'd crawl back behind the console place the new tube where the dead tube was.

Then it was 1-2-3-4, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band all over again. Success!

And no burn in time required--at least by my dad.

Life was simple and easy back then.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, the good old days. I don't ever remember my father burning in tubes after he sent me to the local radio store to buy replacement tubes for his stereo. And to think he was just trying to play the Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's. He used to ask me to crawl behind the console and look to see which tubes were not glowing. Then he'd turn off the stereo (Motorola) and I would pull the suspect tube out, get on my bicycle and ride down to the store, go to the tube tester located right by the entrance of the radio shop, look at the slick easy-chart showing me which socket to stick the sucker in, stick it in the tube tester, confirm it was dead--"yep dead tube alright" and then ask the clerk for a replacement. I'd buy the replacement, get back on my bicycle and hand the tube and the receipt and the change to my dad. Then he'd hand me back the tube and I'd crawl back behind the console place the new tube where the dead tube was.
> 
> Then it was 1-2-3-4, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band all over again. Success!
> 
> ...


 


  A great great story - made my afternoon a delight! Will raise a glass of Southern Iced-tea in your direction in minutes...


----------



## Yitaro

clayton sf said:


> Ah, the good old days. I don't ever remember my father burning in tubes after he sent me to the local radio store to buy replacement tubes for his stereo. And to think he was just trying to play the Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's. He used to ask me to crawl behind the console and look to see which tubes were not glowing. Then he'd turn off the stereo (Motorola) and I would pull the suspect tube out, get on my bicycle and ride down to the store, go to the tube tester located right by the entrance of the radio shop, look at the slick easy-chart showing me which socket to stick the sucker in, stick it in the tube tester, confirm it was dead--"yep dead tube alright" and then ask the clerk for a replacement. I'd buy the replacement, get back on my bicycle and hand the tube and the receipt and the change to my dad. Then he'd hand me back the tube and I'd crawl back behind the console place the new tube where the dead tube was.
> 
> Then it was 1-2-3-4, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band all over again. Success!
> 
> ...



Ahhh.....the good old day of child labour. Lol. And I thought India was bad.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Ahhh.....the good old day of child labour. Lol. And I thought India was bad.


 


  The look of satisfaction on the father's face? Priceless, for any child. Really enjoyed Clayton SF sharing that with us...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, the good old days. I don't ever remember my father burning in tubes after he sent me to the local radio store to buy replacement tubes for his stereo. And to think he was just trying to play the Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's. He used to ask me to crawl behind the console and look to see which tubes were not glowing. Then he'd turn off the stereo (Motorola) and I would pull the suspect tube out, get on my bicycle and ride down to the store, go to the tube tester located right by the entrance of the radio shop, look at the slick easy-chart showing me which socket to stick the sucker in, stick it in the tube tester, confirm it was dead--"yep dead tube alright" and then ask the clerk for a replacement. I'd buy the replacement, get back on my bicycle and hand the tube and the receipt and the change to my dad. Then he'd hand me back the tube and I'd crawl back behind the console place the new tube where the dead tube was.
> 
> Then it was 1-2-3-4, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band all over again. Success!
> 
> ...


 

 So tell me, did you have a playing card clothes pinned to your rear wheel?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Can anybody fill me in on the proper warmup time for most of Woo's line? Depending on my budget I'm going to get either the 6-SE or the 5-LE. Thanks guys!


 

 For the WA6SE about 5 min.
  For the WA5LE about 30 min.


----------



## sillysally

I really would not use any tube dampener on my tubes, the glass on a tube is designed for that tube, how it sounds and for heat displacement. Also make sure there is some room between your tubes.
   
  If you want you can get a set of large Isonode vibration feet, that should take care of any tube vibration.
   
  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> So tell me, did you have a playing card clothes pinned to your rear wheel?


 

 Yes. Attached with my mother's wooden clothes pins. My sister had a Stingray bike with a banana seat! I had red plastic tassels coming out of my handle bars.


----------



## Silent One

Vibration control _____
   
  I'm still hoping to hear if anyone isolated their transformer(s) inside the chassis of their Woo. And if so, successfully? A worthy tweak as opposed to 'feet?' (Overheard on the Loudspeaker inside the OR) _"Paging Dr.Wu.... Dr.Jack Wu, please report to the front desk!"_


----------



## cifani090

I love the quality of packaging Woo does, who doesnt like a mini crate at their door?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I personally don't hear magic from my amp until its been on for more than two hours, though I don't leave it sit on just to get it there on most occasions.  What I've taken to doing is turning it on, getting in the shower for the night, then sitting down for some listening after my hair dries....... by then it is usually sounding good.  I've found the white noise of the shower acts as a sort of reset button for my hearing as well, as my perception seems more consistent when I listen on these occasions than when I listen during other times such as right after work.


----------



## Clayton SF

For all my amps. 1 minute. It is not that the sound doesn't improve after 30-45 minutes, it is just that I like to listen right away. Very impatient--must listen right away. I am very forgiving even if the music sq doesn't come into play for another hour or so after I turn on the amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I love the quality of packaging Woo does, who doesnt like a mini crate at their door?


 


  There are two types of crates I long to find at my door this autumn - crates for one of Woo Audio's BIG amps; a crate full of Whole Milk, Cream & Eggnog delivered from the following SoCal dairies: Broguerie's; Alta Dena.


----------



## Clayton SF

Woo Audio 5 being delivered to Silent One as he sips his tea.
  A casual daylight air drop:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Woo Audio 5 being delivered to Silent One as he sips his tea.
> A casual daylight air drop:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I personally don't hear magic from my amp until its been on for more than two hours, though I don't leave it sit on just to get it there on most occasions.  What I've taken to doing is turning it on, getting in the shower for the night, then sitting down for some listening after my hair dries....... by then it is usually sounding good.  I've found the white noise of the shower acts as a sort of reset button for my hearing as well, as my perception seems more consistent when I listen on these occasions than when I listen during other times such as right after work.


 

 Without a doubt! Your prep mirrors my thinking as well. I go an hour at minimum and it often stretches beyond as I try to close out the night for interrupted listening. The system clearly sounds better once well under way. Then, there's the emotional side to prep for...


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> 15 minutes but I usually listen to it once it power up?  Any reason not looking at the WA22?


 
  Yeah, I'm not keen on the WA22 because I have no use for several of the outputs. 1/4" high/low is all I'll ever need honestly.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I personally don't hear magic from my amp until its been on for more than two hours, though I don't leave it sit on just to get it there on most occasions.  What I've taken to doing is turning it on, getting in the shower for the night, then sitting down for some listening after my hair dries....... by then it is usually sounding good.  I've found the white noise of the shower acts as a sort of reset button for my hearing as well, as my perception seems more consistent when I listen on these occasions than when I listen during other times such as right after work.


 

 I'm with you X.  I've noticed that it takes a while for the magic to happen although it's good when I first turn it on.  It's just that the tubes need to warm up and for some reason there is some dynamic or shift in the music after it's been on for a good long while.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Woo Audio 5 being delivered to Silent One as he sips his tea.
> A casual daylight air drop:


 

 Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!!


 

 Stimulating!
   
  His pix & caption sent me into OVERDRIVE - need to earn more this autumn!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I'm with you X.  I've noticed that it takes a while for the magic to happen although it's good when I first turn it on.  It's just that the tubes need to warm up and for some reason there is some dynamic or shift in the music after it's been on for a good long while.


 


  Looking at the clock...
   
  ...another thought I have is one of 'time.' Some nights have brief listening sessions when I'm on higher alert. So, if I know in advance I can only get in say 60 - 90 minutes of quality listening time ,why would I want to start listening soon after I power up? Most, if not the entire brief session would be spent with the system 'rising.' However, warming up adequately in advance gets me the good stuff as soon as I sit down. The Best-of-the-best or the best it's goin' to get for that night...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Woo Audio 5 being delivered to Silent One as he sips his tea.
> A casual daylight air drop:


 


 I'm just loving it...............................


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I'm just loving it...............................


 
    
  Quote:


clayton sf said:


> Woo Audio 5 being delivered to Silent One as he sips his tea.
> A casual daylight air drop:


 


  Wait till October! (Ok, maybe a bit later... but still to come, a new job, a new Woo). So, dannie01, could you tell me in advance what K-Mok sounds like on a 300B amp? I've 255 tracks to find out on my own... but don't wanna wait that long!


----------



## spagetka

In case of my WA5:

 up to 30min ~ relaxed
 from 30min to 2h ~ listenable
 from 2h to 5h ~ very good
 from 6h to 7h ~ best
   
   
  All depends on wine,mood,... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


grmnasasin0227 said:


> Can anybody fill me in on the proper warmup time for most of Woo's line? Depending on my budget I'm going to get either the 6-SE or the 5-LE. Thanks guys!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> In case of my WA5:
> 
> up to 30min ~ relaxed
> from 30min to 2h ~ listenable
> ...


 


  Same here, improvements come as the session advances. Though, every now and again I feel bad about the continued warming of very inefficient S.E.T. Class A amps. By chance, could you share the European Unions thoughts, position on these amps over in the EU, what's the latest?
   
  I think the energy efficiency scenario will unfold first in the EU, then Asia followed by North America...


----------



## dyl1dyl

I <3 my Woo Wa5 with my LCD 2s


----------



## spagetka

Hm, to be more specific. When I wrote that during 6-7 hour amp sounds the best I meant that during this I usually complete my tests to be sure and confident like:

 tube rings - improvement or not
 16bit vs 24 bit
 Shuguang 300b-z vs EAT 300b
 influence of different brands of drivers on sound - which one sound the best and when
 aftermarket headphone cable - worth the money or not...
 ...
   
  Maybe I am too critical but I'd like to be helpful every time I wrote something.


----------



## spagetka

ss, did you find any improvement of your WA5-LE with vibration feets? Thank you in advance.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I really would not use any tube dampener on my tubes, the glass on a tube is designed for that tube, how it sounds and for heat displacement. Also make sure there is some room between your tubes.
> 
> If you want you can get a set of large Isonode vibration feet, that should take care of any tube vibration.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I love the quality of packaging Woo does, who doesnt like a mini crate at their door?


 

 You bought a Woo?


----------



## Icenine2

They don't ship in those cool crates anymore.  I think he switched to all cardboard not to long ago.
  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I love the quality of packaging Woo does, who doesnt like a mini crate at their door?


----------



## Skylab

Certainly the WA6 and WA2/22 come in cardboard, with excellent custom foam inserts.  Very effective packaging, if not pretty.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> They don't ship in those cool crates anymore.  I think he switched to all cardboard not to long ago.


 
   
  My WA22 came well packaged in a carboard box in December 2010.


----------



## Icenine2

Those wood crates for the WA5's were certainly cool looking though.


----------



## Yitaro

Just replaced my driver tube with fat bottle 6FD7. There's magic in the air. The music just come alive with smooth sound and large stage. I think I just hit the sweet spot for my WA6. Placing an additional order for these fat bottles. For reference, I had tried the fat bottle 6EW7, RCA and sylvania 6ED7. I have the Princess rectifier. Still waiting for my Brimar.


----------



## jc9394

There goes my 2nd day air, I can't believe this, it is just raining in Boston not like snowing...
   

 Somerville, MA, United States 09/08/2011 11:56 A.M. Emergency conditions beyond UPS' control.   09/08/2011 10:58 A.M. Destination Scan East Boston, MA, United States 09/08/2011 10:20 A.M. Departure Scan   09/08/2011 9:13 A.M. Arrival Scan   09/08/2011 8:30 A.M. Adverse weather conditions


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Those wood crates for the WA5's were certainly cool looking though.


 


 X 2, those wood crates with very well inner protection.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> _*Shuguang 300b-z vs EAT 300b*_
> 
> Maybe I am too critical but I'd like to be helpful every time I wrote something.


 

 I want to know this comparison, too. Pls share your finding.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2, those wood crates with very well inner protection.


 


  When the time comes, I'm simply going to make the request with Woo Audio. Good thing my Champagne still arrives in wooden crates. There's something wonderful about having wood in one's lifestyle...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Just replaced my driver tube with fat bottle 6FD7. There's magic in the air. The music just come alive with smooth sound and large stage. I think I just hit the sweet spot for my WA6. Placing an additional order for these fat bottles. For reference, I had tried the fat bottle 6EW7, RCA and sylvania 6ED7. I have the Princess rectifier. Still waiting for my Brimar.


 


  I may have missed it, but with whom (maker of fat bottle 6FD7) did you find the magic?


----------



## WarriorAnt

I wonder what those wood crates might fetch on ebay?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I wonder what those wood crates might fetch on ebay?


 


  FREE if you buy a older version of WA5...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2, those wood crates with very well inner protection.


 

   
  That's like my dream unboxing, thanks for posting it


----------



## Clayton SF

I think I read somewhere that the cardboard boxes make for lighter shipping fees.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Just replaced my driver tube with fat bottle 6FD7. There's magic in the air. The music just come alive with smooth sound and large stage. I think I just hit the sweet spot for my WA6. Placing an additional order for these fat bottles. For reference, I had tried the fat bottle 6EW7, RCA and sylvania 6ED7. I have the Princess rectifier. Still waiting for my Brimar.


 
  What manufacturer of 6FD7 are you using? Where did you purchase it from? I'm glad you love the sound


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think I read somewhere that the cardboard boxes make for lighter shipping fees.


 


  Woo Audio will definitely see that I pick up the additional costs... but it's akin to getting something gift-wrapped.


----------



## spagetka

In short - _for me_ shuguang (I had around 400h on them) simply can't be compared to the brand new EAT - they are simply amazing. I am very happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I want to know this comparison, too. Pls share your finding.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You bought a Woo?


 

 Thhh, not yet. Its definitely on my list of hp amps to buy.
   
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2, those wood crates with very well inner protection.


 

 Thats what im talking about, their are two crates and a cardboard box with the tubes,manuals,etc.


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> I may have missed it, but with whom (maker of fat bottle 6FD7) did you find the magic?




I'm not sure if it's the same magic, but it's the Sylvania fat bottle black plates that bring it to me! 

They don't bring the same low end impact as some other tubes, but they have a detail and energy that I quite like.


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I may have missed it, but with whom (maker of fat bottle 6FD7) did you find the magic?


 

 It's the Westinghouse fat bottle.


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> What manufacturer of 6FD7 are you using? Where did you purchase it from? I'm glad you love the sound


 
  It's Westinghouse 6FD7.  Got it from The Tubestore.  I emailed them to see if they have any left, but still waiting for their reply.
  How long does the power/driver tube last?  Gonna stock up some.


----------



## Skylab

Westinghouse did not make a 6FD7...I have one branded Westinghouse, and it's a Sylvania black plate, which was my favorite 6FD7.


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Westinghouse did not make a 6FD7...I have one branded Westinghouse, and it's a Sylvania black plate, which was my favorite 6FD7.


 
   
  Thanks Skylab for the info.  Didn't know that.  I checked the box and it says Westinghouse.  Double checked the tube and they're black plate like you said.
  Was it just a rebrand of Sylvania?
  Listening to the 6FD7, I find that the midrange is fuller.  Voices are more palpable.  Bass is not as tight as the RCA 6ED7, but sufficient. 
  On the opening track of Guy Clark "live recording", the clapping hands sound real, not tinny like on 6ED7.


----------



## Skylab

Yup, rebranded Sylvania. Very nice tubes!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> It's Westinghouse 6FD7.  Got it from The Tubestore.  I emailed them to see if they have any left, but still waiting for their reply.
> How long does the power/driver tube last?  Gonna stock up some.


 
  If the Quad set of nos matched Tungaram E88CC/6922 (1972) that I just got are any example of the kind of tubes Tubestore sells, then you got a real winner.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Thanks Skylab for the info.  Didn't know that.  I checked the box and it says Westinghouse.  Double checked the tube and they're black plate like you said.
> Was it just a rebrand of Sylvania?
> Listening to the 6FD7, I find that the midrange is fuller.  Voices are more palpable.  Bass is not as tight as the RCA 6ED7, but sufficient.
> On the opening track of Guy Clark "live recording", the clapping hands sound real, not tinny like on 6ED7.


 


  If you like 'em this much out-of-the-box, wait until 100-150 hours long after you put that box away!


----------



## Silent One

First off - Welcome back NFL!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Shootout @ 23:00 Hours!
   
  The challenger, upstart Monster Power Center Pro 2500 vs the long-serving Newpointe Power Strip - Surge Protector. Which of the two can bring clean power to the Woo? Will plug & play well after midnight...
   
  Click on the photo and vote (not really...).


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> In short - _for me_ shuguang (I had around 400h on them) simply can't be compared to the brand new EAT - they are simply amazing. I am very happy.


 

 Thanks, you are simply the only one in this thread ever help me to save my money.


----------



## Clayton SF

Score, Silent One. You're constantly building and adding--like segments on the perpetual space station--which, also like your system, is out of this World!
   
  I bring a tray of freshly brewed tea for you, Silent One.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Score, Silent One. You're constantly building and adding--like segments on the perpetual space station--which, also like your system, is out of this World!


 


  You are kind... and I, broke! Though you're nearly my neighbor (along with shipsupt-mikemalter-FlyingBear), I am convinced all of you make great neighbors! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Someday, I'm going to configure a boutique...er... listening room like yours (furniture is overrated).
   
  The reason the unit is temporarily resting on the dinner tray? So it can pass 48 hours of scrutiny, moving and bouncing around. Then and only then will it be ready for install. After all, if something needs to go back the next day why permanently place it?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Score, Silent One. You're constantly building and adding--like segments on the perpetual space station--which, also like your system, is out of this World!
> 
> I bring a tray of freshly brewed tea for you, Silent One.


 

 You come up with the greatest photos! The one captioned "What Mike's Cat Found" still gets me on the floor...


----------



## Silent One

Here's to hoping our Southern California-Mexico-Arizona Contingent get back online soon...


----------



## zeroryu

guys, i have question on WA2 vs WA6SE solely on pairing it with HD600. or maybe you guys have some other suggestion for HD600 that's around 1000$
   
  thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zeroryu said:


> guys, i have question on QA2 vs WA6SE solely on pairing it with HD600. or maybe you guys have some other suggestion for HD600 that's around 1000$
> 
> thanks!


 


  Curiously, who makes the QA2?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Score, Silent One. You're constantly building and adding--like segments on the perpetual space station--which, also like your system, is out of this World!
> 
> I bring a tray of freshly brewed tea for you, Silent One.


 


  Still one of the best Sci Fi films...


----------



## zeroryu

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Curiously, who makes the QA2?


 


  my bad. typo on that. it's supposed to be WA2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zeroryu said:


> my bad. typo on that. it's supposed to be WA2.


 


  I was searching high & low...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know several (unsure of just how many) members that will be visible here later today (Friday) that could help you.


----------



## zeroryu

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I was searching high & low...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 any help would be appreciated. i'm trying to submit my order asap, so i can tube shopping next


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Still one of the best Sci Fi films...


 


  It's ok WarriorAnt, laughter is good medicine, I won't take it personal. But what film is the photo from? I know, I know, it'll probably give Clayton his first laugh of the day... at sunrise no less!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zeroryu said:


> any help would be appreciated. i'm trying to submit my order asap, so i can tube shopping next


 

 Check out this post:
   
   http://www.head-fi.org/t/555749/sibling-rivalry-the-woo-wa2-vs-the-woo-wa6se-review-posted-update-6-3-2011/75
   
  It's not that long and there's HD600/650 comments relating to the WA2/WA6SE...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's ok WarriorAnt, laughter is good medicine, I won't take it personal. But what film is the photo from? I know, I know, it'll probably give Clayton his first laugh of the day... at sunrise no less!


 

 2001: A Space Odyssey.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> 2001: A Space Odyssey.


 


  Thanks, grokit. Do you know I had intended to see that film many times over the years? Not sure what happened... now y'all got me wanting to see it!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's ok WarriorAnt, laughter is good medicine, I won't take it personal. But what film is the photo from? I know, I know, it'll probably give Clayton his first laugh of the day... at sunrise no less!


 
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> 2001: A Space Odyssey.


 
   
  Okay, O Silent One. The space flight must have been very smooth to have put you to sleep wearing your headphones with music playing. So please wake up the next time that stewardess (space attendant?) comes around with that cup of tea. Perhaps then, and only then, will you notice her.


----------



## jc9394

Shameless plug.
   
  Anyone have an extra pair of TS 7236, please hit me up.  I'm looking for the best tube combo for the LCD-2.


----------



## jc9394

SilentOne,
   
  Karen Mok?  For some reason I like her but never really into her music on critical listening.


----------



## jc9394

Tube experts,
   
  Is  the green spots on one of these tubes OK?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-7236-Box-Plate-Tube-Pair-Amplitrex-Tested-NOS-/110738057617?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19c880a991


----------



## Skylab

That looks like corrosion.  Assuming it's entirely limited to the metal base collar, it should have no impact on the tube's performance, but I wouldn;t want that stuff getting in my tube sockets.  I would want to use steel wool to remove it before using the tubes, which might make the tube look better or worse.  The metal base collar has no impact on the way the tube functions though.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That looks like corrosion.  Assuming it's entirely limited to the metal base collar, it should have no impact on the tube's performance, but I wouldn;t want that stuff getting in my tube sockets.  I would want to use steel wool to remove it before using the tubes, which might make the tube look better or worse.  The metal base collar has no impact on the way the tube functions though.


 


  Thanks Rob,  I will ask the seller to get a close up of the pins.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks Rob,  I will ask the seller to get a close up of the pins.


 


 John, if I were you I would consider getting the Sylvania 7236. I don't think the difference is worth $100 per pair.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> SilentOne,
> 
> Karen Mok?  For some reason I like her but never really into her music on critical listening.


 


 Just wondering Faye Wong will show up in SilentOne's avatar soon...............................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just wondering Faye Wong will show up in SilentOne's avatar soon...............................


 
   
  Faye, I do love her too.  Both the look and voice.  While we are at it, how about her SilentOne?


----------



## Clayton SF

Do you guys actually fine-tune your Woo with tubes to compliment the female voice? That's wild. I hear talk of "these tubes are great for vocals" etc. but never imagined you could get that precise.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Do you guys actually fine-tune your Woo with tubes to compliment the female voice? That's wild. I hear talk of "these tubes are great for vocals" etc. but never imagined you could get that precise.


 


 Since the ECC32 were gone bad, I found the Sylvania 6SN7W chrome top short bottle sound very nice especially female vocal.


----------



## Yitaro

Hi Guys,
  Since we're talking about Chinese singers, can someone direct me to a website for Chinese (Mandarin) albums in FLAC.  Been searching but all I find is MP3's. 
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Do you guys actually fine-tune your Woo with tubes to compliment the female voice? That's wild. I hear talk of "these tubes are great for vocals" etc. but never imagined you could get that precise.


 


  Yes, I swap tubes out on what I'm planning to listen that evening.


  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Since the ECC32 were gone bad, I found the Sylvania 6SN7W chrome top short bottle sound very nice especially female vocal.


 


  Never tried them but I do like the Treasure pair very well with Asian female vocal.  The TS BGRP is very well with jazz vocal, especially with Diana Krall.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug.
> 
> Anyone have an extra pair of TS 7236, please hit me up.  I'm looking for the best tube combo for the LCD-2.


 


 PM Sent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Okay, O Silent One. The space flight must have been very smooth to have put you to sleep wearing your headphones with music playing. So please wake up the next time that stewardess (space attendant?) comes around with that cup of tea. Perhaps then, and only then, will you notice her.


 

 Perhaps, I need to get from underneath audio a bit more... (understatement). I'm really excited about watching a Sci-Fi film through vacuum tube technology and headphones.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just wondering Faye Wong will show up in SilentOne's avatar soon...............................


 


  Soon, because I both have her music and loved her for years.... Next! My favorite track by her is "Bored." She's special indeed!!! One of the reasons I featured K-Mok is because I just got a new piece of gear and will be burning-in and checking in with her throughout the weekend (250 tracks go round-and-and).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Hi Guys,
> Since we're talking about Chinese singers, can someone direct me to a website for Chinese (Mandarin) albums in FLAC.  Been searching but all I find is MP3's.
> Thanks in advance.


 


  Just woke up. Can assist after brunch...
  Still missing Brunch... sent contact in Taiwan your message moments ago.
  Perhaps, dannie01 can assist as well...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Faye, I do love her too.  Both the look and voice.  While we are at it, how about her SilentOne?


 


  For her, either my Raytheon 6SN7WGT's 1949 or the RCA Grey Glass... love her voice! As it would happen, back in 2001 I was a first year Mandarin student and teacher had me watching/listening to media at every chance, from mainstream to locals. A promising tool until Faye distracted me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  (K-Mok uncropped)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> SilentOne,
> 
> Karen Mok?  For some reason I like her but never really into her music on critical listening.


 


  I got into her acting first (love her acting!). But once I discovered her on a soundtrack in multi-channel, it was over! And she compliments my _WA 6 Special Edition_ right nicely. So good, I had to spell out my Woo in its entirety! I'm not one who voices their Woo for female vocals, but I often check (and hope for the best) tubes for this with the likes of Ella, Sarah Vaughn, Busi Mhlongo, Astrud Gilberto and other wonderful female vocals.
   
  I try to voice the Woo for instrumentation with tubes (Jazz, Blues, African ect) because piano and others are harder to get right than vocals in my listening experience.


----------



## bobeau

So went to Home Depot and picked up a pack of o-rings in the plumbing section for $3... mo betta?
   
  I guess it does sound a bit tighter, more solid bass.  I could be crazy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Since the ECC32 were gone bad, I found the Sylvania 6SN7W chrome top short bottle sound very nice especially female vocal.


 

  
  Have you tried the RCA Grey Glass for female vocals? Liquid I tell you, lush and liquid...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> So went to Home Depot and picked up a pack of o-rings in the plumbing section for $3... mo betta?
> 
> I guess it does sound a bit tighter, more solid bass.  I could be crazy.


 


  Free to $3 tweaks? Now that's something I can enjoy... off to HD this evening, thanks! Looking closer at your photo, do you have a o-ring that would fit closer to the top of your rectifier? Or maybe compare/contrast the sound by moving it up and see what you get? I bet you have the entire office intrigued...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I got into her acting first (love her acting!). But once I discovered her on a soundtrack in multi-channel, it was over! And she compliments my _WA 6 Special Edition_ right nicely. So good, I had to spell out my Woo in its entirety! I'm not one who voices their Woo for female vocals, but I often check (and hope for the best) tubes for this with the likes of Ella, Sarah Vaughn, Busi Mhlongo, Astrud Gilberto and other wonderful female vocals.
> 
> I try to voice the Woo for instrumentation with tubes (Jazz, Blues, African ect) because piano and others are harder to get right than vocals in my listening experience.


 

 I love her "那麼愛你為什麼 - 黃品源/莫文蔚", it is kind of weird but I love it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I love her "那麼愛你為什麼 - 黃品源/莫文蔚", it is kind of weird but I love it.


 


  Weird? I'm comfortable, knowing you got my back!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Have you tried the RCA Grey Glass for female vocals? Liquid I tell you, lush and liquid...


 

 The RCA 6SN7GT is a very good tube, even without the grey glass. I have a black plated pair in my tube stage and I like them as much as my TSRPBGs on that (non-Woo) rig.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The RCA 6SN7GT is a very good tube, even without the grey glass. I have a black plated pair in my tube stage and I like them as much as my TSRPBGs on that (non-Woo) rig.


 


  After a 10 day hiatus from the Woo, I'm only on Day three with the Grey Glass, need more time and genre but a delight so far. Still can't get next to my Ray's but the RCA's do get liquid in the middle and it can be enchanting with the right musical presentation... and fun!
   
  I remember the very first time I played both the RCA Grey Glass and Astrud Gilberto's "Non-Stop To Brazil." Her voice was so lush, so liquid, I thought I was going to melt like chocolate left out at a July picnic!!!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Free to $3 tweaks? Now that's something I can enjoy... off to HD this evening, thanks! Looking closer at your photo, do you have a o-ring that would fit closer to the top of your rectifier? Or maybe compare/contrast the sound by moving it up and see what you get? I bet you have the entire office intrigued...


 

 Those are the largest, but they're stretchy so I moved them up.  They are under big-time tension.  BTW it's using 2 different sizes of o-ring, the largest ones in the pack.  The bottom one is about twice as thick.
   
  The smaller o-rings on the 6ew7s, there were 9 of those in the pack.  And then 3 more that fit smaller tubes like 6de7s.  So yeah, good deal.


----------



## Silent One

Impressions out of the box ____
   
  In reviewing the best way to feed my Woo last night; early morning, I put the newly arrived Monster PowerCenter Pro 2500 against the well-worn Newpointe Power Surge Protector Power Strip. Upon hitting "Power" the Monster mashed, no contest! I was presented with a cleaner, blacker background. Though slight, a new level of detail emerged. I did notice I needed a bit more turn on the Woo's volume pot for equal listening levels.
   
  And in the first 12 hours, a little less slam for percussion; bass. A few hundred hours and things could easily turn around. I noticed after getting a cap upgrade on my DAC-1, I experienced the same thing. Initially concerned until hour 195... bass/slam both returned with a vengeance! Wanted to throw a HiFi Supreme fuse in the box; Monster said "No." Their reply suggested why anyone would want to do something like that. Apparently they don't read head-fi... what won't we try?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Looks like we'll be keeping the Monster for awhile...
   
  However, touching the case reveals a transformer spinning inside; will move to isolate the unit at a later date. And then there's the three digit LED Voltage display - WAY TOO BRIGHT! Sadly, while this display can be condemned, it cannot be 'dimmed.' As much as the Woo is loving the new feed, this LED is annoying. For an audio manufacturer to have its product draw too much attention to itself takes the whole listening session down. "Look at me, I'm 120 volts!"




   
  I find LOUD touches like these inside the listening room to be selfish, amatuer-ish and unwarranted. It's not like the only device we'll have illuminated. Going to try and mount the unit in away where I can have access, but not _In your face_ access!  
   
  Since photo, have moved Woo from 'Analogue' to 'High Current' section in rear of unit.


----------



## grokit

It sound like your latest tweak is working out well SilentOne, congrats. It's good to know that a $200 piece of power gear can pay off like that.
   
  You could try brown-colored packing tape over that LED display; it lets enough light through to be useful while dimming it considerably. If it's not dim enough just apply another layer.
   
  I know you're still going to try that fuse lol, let us know how it works out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Do transformers actually spin? I didn't realize that.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It sound like your latest tweak is working out well SilentOne, congrats. It's good to know that a $200 piece of power gear can pay off like that.
> 
> You could try brown-colored packing tape over that LED display; it lets enough light through to be useful while dimming it considerably. If it's not dim enough just apply another layer.
> 
> ...


 

 Wot?! You didn't know transformers can spin, walk, turn into cars... (and no, I haven't seen any of the Transformers on film either). Well, whatever is causing the internals to move in a whirring, vibrating manner... But grokit, that's some brilliant thinking, it hadn't occurred to me to cover the LED up in a tinted way. This, despite living many years in Hollywood, where many things are covered, treated, glossed over and the likes daily!  




  Now on the lookout for tint or film... yeah, if I can shove a solid-state drive down a Mac mini's throat, ramming a fuse into a power conditioner will be a walk in the park. O.k., maybe Central Park at night... but still!


----------



## inner stage

excellent set up.super clean.did you audition before you set all this up?wow !


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Since the ECC32 were gone bad, I found the Sylvania 6SN7W chrome top short bottle sound very nice especially female vocal.


 

 I must be the only person who doesn't care for the Ws...... though there are multiple versions of the W and I've only heard one of them.  Do yours have the extra support rod and the round bottom mica dannie?  They really do sound nice for female vocals admittedly, I was just far less impressed with how they fleshed out instrument timbres.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Tube experts,
> 
> Is  the green spots on one of these tubes OK?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-7236-Box-Plate-Tube-Pair-Amplitrex-Tested-NOS-/110738057617?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19c880a991


 

 If you buy them you'll have to tell us what you think of them versus the 5998.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you buy them you'll have to tell us what you think of them versus the 5998.


 
  Actually with my LCD-2s, I prefer the slightly more SSish Sylvanias. But with my T1s/HD800s, I do prefer the TS7236s.
   
  Both 7236 tubes (Slyvania or TS) are more SS sounding than my TS5998.
  
  Edit: I bought my TS7236s from Jack at Woo Audio. Maybe shoot him an email to see if he has any left?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 

 Take the cover off that monster I want a good look inside!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





inner stage said:


> excellent set up.super clean.did you audition before you set all this up?wow !


 

 Faith ~
   
  I have yet to audition anything in my current system in advance. I could have taken the time out to audition beforehand. But when I get funds, I'm ready to "Click & Ship!" Luck - so far, so good. I think many here in this thread "Buy & Try." Not all store policies are equal and this matters. What about your own fortunes, things work out?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Take the cover off that monster I want a good look inside!


 

 Me? The visually impaired?! I'll be the first to admit, AIN'T NUTHIN' WRONG WITH MY HEARING. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Now that you mention it, I'm in the middle of hiding that unsightly LED sporting face-plate deep into the rack. Guide me along to pop-the-top! Wasn't there a film out called "What's the worst that can happen?" 
   
  Haven't peered inside my Woo yet either. (13 months late!) Ok WarriorAnt, I couldn't find any interior pix online. Let me slide this bad boy from under the rack and have a closer look at removal...
   
  Wanna know how bad my vision is? mikemalter was guiding me to a parking spot in front of his home recently _and I almost took him out __(sorry, MM)_


----------



## Clayton SF

I should have recorded that event: The perils of Woomitosis and how not to park a car when seeking total Woo-dom in San Rafael.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Actually with my LCD-2s, I prefer the slightly more SSish Sylvanias. But with my T1s/HD800s, I do prefer the TS7236s.
> 
> Both 7236 tubes (Slyvania or TS) are more SS sounding than my TS5998.
> 
> Edit: I bought my TS7236s from Jack at Woo Audio. Maybe shoot him an email to see if he has any left?


 
   
  Well, my story is this.  It's no secret I want to move from a WA6 to a WA22, but life keeps finding ways to slow me down on the path to this dream.  Since the price of tubes seems to be rising exponentially as supplies deplete I decided to buy the tubes I wanted for the amp now rather than after taking ownership.  Risky, I know, but assuming I received no bad tubes theoretically I saved myself money in the long run.  It also relieves the stress of wondering how easily I can find these tubes.
   
  I pretty much bet the farm on the 5998, buying several pair so I would be set for a long time.  I have some Tung Sol 6AS7G as well and a pair of Chatham 2399 too.  I decided not to invest in the 7236.  So, ever since I did this some months ago I've been wondering in the back of my mind what I'd do if I found myself not liking the 5998 LCD-2 combo once I had everything assembled in the same place.  So I'm just collecting as many opinions as possible to firm up the soundness of my choices.  Of course I could always hunt down some 7236, but it wouldn't change the fact that I'd feel like a fool for blind buying the wrong tubes in the first place.
   
  I'm probably stupid for having done it backwards...... but in my mind it made sense at the time for a number of reasons.  I sort of had tube fever.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I should have recorded that event: The perils of Woomitosis and how not to park a car when seeking total Woo-dom in San Rafael.


 


  Though I was apologetic, I'm sure he recognized the silly grin of anticipation...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, my story is this.  It's no secret I want to move from a WA6 to a WA22, but life keeps finding ways to slow me down on the path to this dream.  Since the price of tubes seems to be rising exponentially as supplies deplete I decided to buy the tubes I wanted for the amp now rather than after taking ownership.  Risky, I know, but assuming I received no bad tubes theoretically I saved myself money in the long run.  It also relieves the stress of wondering how easily I can find these tubes.
> 
> I pretty much bet the farm on the 5998, buying several pair so I would be set for a long time.  I have some Tung Sol 6AS7G as well and a pair of Chatham 2399 too.  I decided not to invest in the 7236.  So, ever since I did this some months ago I've been wondering in the back of my mind what I'd do if I found myself not liking the 5998 LCD-2 combo once I had everything assembled in the same place.  So I'm just collecting as many opinions as possible to firm up the soundness of my choices.  Of course I could always hunt down some 7236, but it wouldn't change the fact that I'd feel like a fool for blind buying the wrong tubes in the first place.
> 
> I'm probably stupid for having done it backwards...... but in my mind it made sense at the time for a number of reasons.  I sort of had tube fever.


 


  That you have a plan in the first place is very important first step. Your strategy is a smart one.


----------



## grokit

I wasn't thinking it was that smart. In fact I was thinking, "that sounds like something I would do".
   
  Then I realized that _I did do that_, and I did it _while I was using the WA22 with the LCD-2_ so it's not that silly at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I bought two pairs of those 2399s and while they are fine tubes I prefer the more neutral sound of the 7236 with both the LCD-2 and the HD800, the latter surprising me a bit more. It may have something to do with the WA22 being euphonic enough by design that I prefer more SS/neutral-sounding tubes with it.


----------



## Silent One

Not quite as beefy as yours, WarriorAnt...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not quite as beefy as yours, WarriorAnt...


 
  Thanks, thats interesting.  Is there anything under the board that you can see like more space that might contain more components?
   

  The APC H15 conditioner.   Now you've got me completely interested in my unit.  I'm going to have to dig it out from my home theater and drag it into the room where my rig is.  My family is going to kill me because they won't be able to watch the new blu ray Lord of the Rings Extended edition my daughter got today for her 17th birthday ( her wishes).    But more than likely they will  tackle me and tie me up so I'll have to wait until they are done watching the trilogy and all the extended versions and everything else that comes with it.  could be a week...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Thanks, thats interesting.  Is there anything under the board that you can see like more space that might contain more components?
> 
> 
> The APC H15 conditioner.   Now you've got me completely interested in my unit.  I'm going to have to dig it out from my home theater and drag it into the room where my rig is.  My family is going to kill me because they won't be able to watch the new blu ray Lord of the Rings Extended edition my daughter got today for her 17th birthday ( her wishes).    But more than likely they will  tackle me and tie me up so I'll have to wait until they are done watching the trilogy and all the extended versions and everything else that comes with it.  could be a week...


 

 I really like the APC H15 (the H10 too!). _"Happy Birthday, Daughter! Wishing you many more..."_  Yeah, you were sitting on gold all this time, did I mention their gonna kill you?! Two rooms-two sides-one ending... YOURS.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  My unit is very low profile, not likely anything that slim hiding underneath the bottom plate (o.k., their schematic). 
   
  Not sure which of my pieces moves internally causing vibrations. As long as it sounds good I can always 'isolate' later. Fixin' to find a home for this bad boy right now - low and away!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I really like the APC H15 (the H10 too!). _"Happy Birthday, Daughter! Wishing you many more..."_  Yeah, you were sitting on gold all this time, did I mention their gonna kill you?! Two rooms-two sides-one ending... YOURS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One thing about the H15 is that it also regulates power, and the menu has about 5 levels of dimness or brightness  and can be completely turned off so it will emit no light.  It may be easier for me to just buy another one then to battle my family for the one in the home theater...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> One thing about the H15 is that it also regulates power, and the menu has about 5 levels of dimness or brightness  and can be completely turned off so it will emit no light.  It may be easier for me to just buy another one then to battle my family for the one in the home theater...


 

 Regulation - that's one feature I wanted badly for my Woo. A steady diet, if you would! May strive to get one Refurb; Pre-owned, in the future. Just completed a one hour warm up of the rig. Just getting seated for my late-night session. Now watching Donald Fagen Live at The Beacon Theater for A&E Television. He's playing "Chain Lightening" and he and the group are absolutely jammin'!!!
   
  Would like to get a high resolution file of this (Flac or something). If given a clean enough file this could make for a great test track and demo.
   
  Donald Fagen's New York Rock and Soul Review, March, 1991. A&E Television. Headliners for this vid:
 Donald Fagen, vocal and piano; Jeff Young, piano; Michael McDonald, vocal and piano.
 Musicians: Drew Zingg, guitar; John Hagen, tenor sax; Cornelius Bumpus, tenor sax; Dennis McDermott, drums; Lincoln Schleifer, bass; Chris Anderson, trumpet. 
 Background vocals: Catherine Russel, Diane Sorel, and Ula Hedwig. Recorded live at the Beacon Theater. This is the Steely Dan tune he originally recorded back in the '70's.
   
   
  http://youtu.be/K9LGO5ShIQo


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just getting seated for my late-night session. Now watching Donald Fagen Live at The Beacon Theater for A&E Television. He's playing "Chain Lightening" and he and the group are absolutely jammin'!!!
> 
> Would like to get a high resolution file of this (Flac or something). If given a clean enough file this could make for a great test track and demo.
> 
> ...


 

 That is a good clip.
   
   I miss the Beacon Theater...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Have you tried the RCA Grey Glass for female vocals? Liquid I tell you, lush and liquid...


 


  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> The RCA 6SN7GT is a very good tube, even without the grey glass. I have a black plated pair in my tube stage and I like them as much as my TSRPBGs on that (non-Woo) rig.


 


 Thanks buddies, will find some to try out.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I must be the only person who doesn't care for the Ws...... though there are multiple versions of the W and I've only heard one of them.  Do yours have the extra support rod and the round bottom mica dannie?  They really do sound nice for female vocals admittedly, I was just far less impressed with how they fleshed out instrument timbres.


 


 Oops, will take a closer look later tonight when I turn the amp off, having lovely music in the Sat evening.


----------



## inter10

Can i join? im waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





inter10 said:


> Can i join? im waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive


 

 What cans will you be using?   I'm interested in the WA6 SE as compared to the Lyr with the LCD's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





inter10 said:


> Can i join? im waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive


 

 Congratulations and welcome. How many more weeks (days) before your WA6 SE arrives? Is it being built at the moment?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Me? The visually impaired?! I'll be the first to admit, AIN'T NUTHIN' WRONG WITH MY HEARING.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Silent One, no problemo.  It was very dark outside.  Anyway, if I'm going to get his, I'd rather it be a fellow woo mate.
  
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I should have recorded that event: The perils of Woomitosis and how not to park a car when seeking total Woo-dom in San Rafael.


 

 Yea, late and dark and not a lot of street lights in our complex.  Actually, once Silent One got pointed in the right direction, he parked very well.


----------



## mikemalter

Sometimes when it gets real hot, it's impossible to wear headphones.


----------



## mikemalter

Hey everyone, packing my suitcase for my two week vacation with my wife to Hawaii.  Hoping my portable gear keeps me in fine sounds while I'm away from my Woo.  Am taking my computer and will be online from time to time.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey everyone, packing my suitcase for my two week vacation with my wife to Hawaii.  Hoping my portable gear keeps me in fine sounds while I'm away from my Woo.  Am taking my computer and will be online from time to time.


 
  I'll be right over to house sit your gear...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I bought two pairs of those 2399s and while they are fine tubes I prefer the more neutral sound of the 7236 with both the LCD-2 and the HD800, the latter surprising me a bit more. It may have something to do with the WA22 being euphonic enough by design that I prefer more SS/neutral-sounding tubes with it.


 

 This is basically what I'm afraid of.  I suppose I could always sell off some 5998s if it turns out that way.  Although, I'm not planning on getting a stock unit so who knows how things will turn out in the end.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Silent One, no problemo.  It was very dark outside.  Anyway, if I'm going to get his, I'd rather it be a fellow woo mate.
> Yea, late and dark and not a lot of street lights in our complex.  Actually, once Silent One got pointed in the right direction, he parked very well.


 
  What did you do to help guide him? Hold a couple of NOS black plate, black glass, round plate, vacuum tubes in front of him like they do when the ground crew holds those sticks in both hands to help guide the pilots and their 747s into their gates. (What are those sticks called anyway?)
   
  And I suppose Silent One remained silent while trying to park? You guys crack me up.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'll be right over to house sit your gear...


 


  But... I've already got the gig!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey everyone, packing my suitcase for my two week vacation with my wife to Hawaii.  Hoping my portable gear keeps me in fine sounds while I'm away from my Woo.  Am taking my computer and will be online from time to time.


 


  And remember, Mrs. Malter is known for getting great shots! Aloha...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





inter10 said:


> Can i join? im waiting for my WA6 SE to arrive


 


  From a fellow _WA 6 Special Edition_ user... welcome!


----------



## inter10

thx. 2 weeks untill it arrives. how do you join anyways?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What did you do to help guide him? Hold a couple of NOS black plate, black glass, round plate, vacuum tubes in front of him like they do when the ground crew holds those sticks in both hands to help guide the pilots and their 747s into their gates. (What are those sticks called anyway?)
> 
> And I suppose Silent One remained silent while trying to park? You guys crack me up.


 

 Silent? We were chatting on our mobiles!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Maybe there's a lesson here about driving and mobile phone distractions...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





inter10 said:


> thx. 2 weeks untill it arrives. how do you join anyways?


 

 Join? Not sure I understand the question... we're simply united here by some wonderful members. And our Woo's past-present-future.


----------



## jc9394

mikemalter said:


> Sometimes when it gets real hot, it's impossible to wear headphones.




That is why I prefer IEM when traveling.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is basically what I'm afraid of.  I suppose I could always sell off some 5998s if it turns out that way.  Although, I'm not planning on getting a stock unit so who knows how things will turn out in the end.


 

 Hedge ___
   
  From where I sit, you'll be just fine. Even though your WA22 will likely be Hot-rodded, there'll still be a demand for both the WA22 and the tubes in question if you need to make a move or adjustments.
   
  And then there's the $avings you'll have...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is why I prefer IEM when traveling.


 


  I've yet to hear the much heralded JH13 Pro's. How do they sound in the WA22? Out of curiosity that is, I am aware of their niche.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I've yet to hear the much heralded JH13 Pro's. How do they sound in the WA22? Out of curiosity that is, I am aware of their niche.




It is crazy good, especially with GEC 6AS7G, BGRP, and EML 5U4G. I sometimes prefer it over HD800 except the lack of soundstage.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is crazy good, especially with GEC 6AS7G, BGRP, and EML 5U4G. I sometimes prefer it over HD800 except the lack of soundstage.


 


  Still have the 6F8G's on simmer? How are they coming along? Man, I was so close to getting my first pair!


----------



## jc9394

Yup, around 10-12 hours now, it starts to open a bit. I don't cook like Mike style, I cook it when I listen to it. This way I know the changes it does during cooking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yup, around 10-12 hours now, it starts to open a bit. I don't cook like Mike style, I cook it when I listen to it. This way I know the changes it does during cooking.


 


  I'm a 21 day minimum cat. I'll strive for the minimum hours but will always consider the time as a factor as well. And I too, monitor for changes while I attempt to enjoy the music. Because not all periods of burn-in is that bad. But when it is... the horror!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is why I prefer IEM when traveling.


 

 I'm going to look into IEM when I get back.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey everyone, packing my suitcase for my two week vacation with my wife to Hawaii.  Hoping my portable gear keeps me in fine sounds while I'm away from my Woo.  Am taking my computer and will be online from time to time.


 


 Let me know your address in detail and I will..............................................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Have a nice vacation!


----------



## Clayton SF

Aloha oe. When I was a kid living in Hawaii we used to call the radio the Coconut Wireless.  Have fun in the sun!


----------



## minimus

I have not posted here before. I have a Woo 22 for over a year, done a fair bit of tube rolling, currently using Bendix 6080s, RCA 6SN7s, and a Sophia 274B rectifier. I have tried other combinations of NOS tubes. Tube rolling doesn't seem to make much difference.

In any case, my rebuilt Singlepower Extreme crushes the Woo as far as listening pleasure, even with low impedance headphones like the JH16s and the LCD-2s, where an OTL like the Extreme should typically fall short. The Extreme has a harmonic richness that makes the Woo 22 seem sterile and boring. (Not sure what amps others were listening to before buying the 22 that leads them to describe the Woo as euphonic.)

I e-mailed Kevin Gilmore a few times for help in repairing my Singlepower and he agreed that the Woo 22 is somewhat lacking and told me that he has asked Jack Wu multiple times to build an amp using the same schematic as the Extreme, obviously to no avail. 

I agree that the Woo's build quality is great and would not recommend anyone buy a Singlepower amp.

So, what am I missing? What tubes really make the Woo 22 sound great?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





minimus said:


> So, what am I missing? What tubes really make the Woo 22 sound great?


 

 The WA22 is the only headphone amp that I've every tried and he Sennheiser HD 800s that I have are the only phones that I've ever tried. Having said that and FWIW, I don't think 6080 have enough power. I say try 5998 or 7236 for power tubes and Mullard ECC32s, Sylvania bad boys or TS 6SN7 black glass oval plates for drivers. EML 5U4G for rectifier.
  P.S. it helps to feed the WA22 from a balanced source.


----------



## jc9394

I tried the SP extreme in the past and agree it is a great amp but not as impressive as the WA22 I have. It maybe the source or the tubes or even the upgrade parts that I have in my WA22. The 6080 tube is great for JH but I think you needs the 5998 or 7236 to probably drives the LCD-2. What really shines with JH13 is GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP, and EML 5U4G while with LCD-2 I prefer TS5998, TS BGRP/TS 6F8G, and EML 5U4G.


----------



## jc9394

^^^ my opinion may not valid, I'm a Woo fanboy after all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





minimus said:


> I have not posted here before. I have a Woo 22 for over a year, done a fair bit of tube rolling, currently using Bendix 6080s, RCA 6SN7s, and a Sophia 274B rectifier. I have tried other combinations of NOS tubes. Tube rolling doesn't seem to make much difference.
> 
> In any case, my rebuilt Singlepower Extreme crushes the Woo as far as listening pleasure, even with low impedance headphones like the JH16s and the LCD-2s, where an OTL like the Extreme should typically fall short. The Extreme has a harmonic richness that makes the Woo 22 seem sterile and boring. (Not sure what amps others were listening to before buying the 22 that leads them to describe the Woo as euphonic.)
> 
> ...


 

 Since you are quite satisfied with the rebuilt Singlepower Extreme and I desire a WA22, I propose we meet privately within the hour. Will send a PM...
   
  ...PM sent! Let's find that '22' a proper and loving home...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





minimus said:


> (Not sure what amps others were listening to before buying the 22 that leads them to describe the Woo as euphonic.)


 
   

As far as the WA22's reputation for being euphonic, that is in comparison to Woo's other amps, by Woo themselves.
   
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> The WA22 is the only headphone amp that I've every tried and he Sennheiser HD 800s that I have are the only phones that I've ever tried. Having said that and FWIW, I don't think 6080 have enough power. I say try 5998 or 7236 for power tubes and Mullard ECC32s, Sylvania bad boys or TS 6SN7 black glass oval plates for drivers. EML 5U4G for rectifier.
> P.S. it helps to feed the WA22 from a balanced source.


 
   

  Definitely try a 7236 or 5998 (or an equivalent like the 2399) power tube, it makes all the difference with that amp. Another great driver tube is the Shuguang Treasure, in fact you can't go wrong with the tube upgrade options currently recommended by Woo (IMO).


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yup, around 10-12 hours now, it starts to open a bit. I don't cook like Mike style, I cook it when I listen to it. This way I know the changes it does during cooking.


 

 I do it this way too, although I'll let the amp idle a few times in the beginning to spare myself from NOS tube treble harshness if necessary.  My sin is that I tend to pass judgement on a tube before it is fully settled.  It seems like most of my 6SN7 have needed a full 150-200 hours to really come into their own which is always a surprise to me.  Perhaps the low operating points they run at in the WA6 prolongs this somewhat.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





minimus said:


> So, what am I missing? What tubes really make the Woo 22 sound great?


 


  I can't chime in on the power tube options, but I did want to say that if you have only ever tried the Sophia rectifier it would probably be good to experiment there a bit.  The Sophia has a pretty wide reputation for being a somewhat analytical sounding tube.  Also, and this is purely my personal opinion and nothing else, I think RCA 6SN7 don't sound all that good in my Woo.  The synergy is really not there.  It is possible to get them lush sounding, but at the expense of detail and depth.  The right Sylvania or Tung Sol, or any of the good British made tubes really seem to work better on Woo amps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I do it this way too, although I'll let the amp idle a few times in the beginning to spare myself from NOS tube treble harshness if necessary.  My sin is that I tend to pass judgement on a tube before it is fully settled.  It seems like most of my 6SN7 have needed a full 150-200 hours to really come into their own which is always a surprise to me.  Perhaps the low operating points they run at in the WA6 prolongs this somewhat.


 
   
   
  +1

 (6SN7) Full 150-200 hours...


----------



## Silent One

Contact : . 
   
  Just finished cleaning the pins on a few of my 6SN7 tubes and the adapters (6SN7 > 6DE7). A gentle filing, then hit it with some Deoxit Red followed by Deoxit Gold. I've long wondered if the bigger pins on the 6SN7 tubes might be better served if they were inserted directly into a 6SN7 teflon socket inside the amp with a resistor. The contact area of the pins on the 6DE7 pins/socket are so small. 
   
  If there are gains to be had in this way, the question then becomes "Is it feasible to swap - will the gains outweigh the effort?"


----------



## Xcalibur255

If you are proposing permanently modding the amp with internal 6SN7 sockets, then I've thought about that myself.  However, I honestly can't see any problem with using the adapters long term, plus it gives you the option to go back to the stock tubes if you ever wanted/needed to.  The mod would likely hurt the resale value of the amp quite a bit as well.  The idea probably lends itself to the WA6 more than it does the SE, since Jack officially condones using the 6SN7 on the former but not the latter.
   
  You don't have to put them in the amp to get teflon sockets though...... Glenn made me a pair of adapters that use the same style teflon socket as the amp itself and I love them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you are proposing permanently modding the amp with internal 6SN7 sockets, then I've thought about that myself.  However, I honestly can't see any problem with using the adapters long term, plus it gives you the option to go back to the stock tubes if you ever wanted/needed to.  The mod would likely hurt the resale value of the amp quite a bit as well.  The idea probably lends itself to the WA6 more than it does the SE, since Jack officially condones using the 6SN7 on the former but not the latter.
> 
> You don't have to put them in the amp to get teflon sockets though...... Glenn made me a pair of adapters that use the same style teflon socket as the amp itself and I love them.


 

 Resale? I wasn't kiddin' when I posted earlier this year about stock tubes versus 6SN7 tubes - _"I ain't never going back!" _ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Your point is well received, however. Currently, my amp is trade bait. Should I get employment soon we gonna keep it. If I don't make a jump at a WA22 in the near term, I'm gonna keep it as well. Because I love it and my fortunes will be better in time... 
   
  I was thinking that the bigger pins might transfer better. And if they do, then no more dilly dallying around with adapters... _give it to me , baby! _ Lastly, if I don't see movement post Woo Audio's announcement next month, I'll just have Glenn hot-rod what I got. And maybe pick up a second 6SE and 'Block 'em! (mono blocks). I'll find a pre-amp somewhere in the listening room...
   
  The horizon is a bit hazy, but I think I see a 300B amp somewhere in my future as well.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The horizon is a bit hazy, but I think I see a 300B amp somewhere in my future as well.


 


 That is not in my future that I can foreseen, I know I will get either an EAT or something that will empty my wallet faster than anything I have encountered...


----------



## Clayton SF

Does anyone have an opinion on the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 and how it pairs with their Woo amp? I am looking into some headphones around the $800-$1K mark and came across these. It's just another phone to throw into the mix. Eek!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 and how it pairs with their Woo amp? I am looking into some headphones around the $800-$1K mark and came across these. It's just another phone to throw into the mix. Eek!


 


  Get the LCD-2 and be done with it.  I owned the AD2000 and it is a great amp but I don't think the Woo is a great match, the only amp I love with AD2000 is ATH-HA5000.  Personally, I think it is more voiced to Asian vocals.


----------



## Silent One

Dilemma ~
   
  I second jc9394's recommendation for Clayton SF to get the LCD-2 v2's and be done with it! Though I am honest, this might be viewed with a bit of suspicion from Clayton. Knowing of my prior lust to drop by and have a listen with the new spec'd Audez'e's (uh-oh!). Hopefully, someone else will step in and second jc9394's position.


----------



## jc9394

He don't have an excuse not to get the LCD-2 if his budget is $1000, Clayton already have the WA2, WA22, beta22, and LF.  Those amps all drives the LCD-2 perfectly well and probably are one of the best amp for LCD-2.


----------



## Clayton SF

Peer pressure!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He don't have an excuse not to get the LCD-2 if his budget is $1000, Clayton already have the WA2, WA22, beta22, and LF.  Those amps all drives the LCD-2 perfectly well and probably are one of the best amp for LCD-2.


 


  "Yes... and it counts!"  - marv albert


----------



## Clayton SF

I've noticed that the LCD-2 rev2 is no longer available with the wooden box on ALO Audio's site. It just comes with the Pelican travel case. I guess I need to get it through Audez'e if I want the wooden box.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I've noticed that the LCD-2 rev2 is no longer available with the wooden box on ALO Audio's site. It just comes with the Pelican travel case. I guess I need to get it through Audez'e if I want the wooden box.


 


  Try Moon Audio, they have them in stock.  You missed it, they had 10% off during labor day weekend.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Try Moon Audio, they have them in stock.  You missed it, they had 10% off during labor day weekend.




You know I visited that site looking for that 10% discount and could not find it thinking I may have read that wrong somewhere. Oh well.


----------



## jc9394

you should have PMed me, that is when I got mines...


----------



## Clayton SF

Next time I'll PM you. Maybe they'll have another special offer soon. The Holidays are coming up. Also, sillysally recommended the HE-6, so that's another option. (I know I know--I'll have to make up my mind at some point.)


----------



## Icenine2

Clay,
   
  I want to forget that and go and order the LCD2rev2's right away!!  Order from Audeze.  That way you are sure to get the latest+greatest.  I had mine in two days after I ordered!
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 and how it pairs with their Woo amp? I am looking into some headphones around the $800-$1K mark and came across these. It's just another phone to throw into the mix. Eek!


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am looking into some headphones around the $800-$1K mark and came across these.


 


  Wait a minute, and you were just asking me about the Senn HD 595?  Hah!  That's funny.


----------



## Clayton SF

eee pee said:


> Wait a minute, and you were just asking me about the Senn HD 595?  Hah!  That's funny.




Well we all have our high-end outfits and our casual, Saturday-nite bash leisure outfits. LOL.


----------



## Silent One

Now on deck awaiting review...
   
  Looking forward to a Midnight rendezvous with the MHDT LAB Balanced Havana. Maybe if I can catch Clayton in between auditioning amps in the near future, we could mate the Havana to his WA22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   (Would like to thank Robert of 'Aphrodite Cu29' kindly for this evaluation.)


----------



## Clayton SF

Where did you buy your MHDT Havana? Yes. Come on over and bring some furniture or a large beanbag!!! Hey, that's it. Where can I get a good beanbag chair? (OT I know I know.)
Also, I believe the Liquid Fire will be here this weekend as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Where did you buy your MHDT Havana? Yes. Come on over and bring some furniture or a large beanbag!!! Hey, that's it. Where can I get a good beanbag chair? (OT I know I know.)
> Also, I believe the Liquid Fire will be here this weekend as well.


 


  Thanks, Clayton. Having a balanced DAC (I've three now) & single-ended amp is like being all dressed up and no place to go!


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Thanks, Clayton. Having a balanced DAC (I've three now) & single-ended amp is like being all dressed up and no place to go!




I feel the same way owning 800 amps and no LCD-2!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I feel the same way owning 800 amps and no LCD-2!!!


 


  The horror!


----------



## Silent One

@ Clayton SF
   
  I believe you've a preference for _"Single-ended." _By chance, do you have any XLR interconnects for your WA22?


----------



## Clayton SF

What tubes are in your Havana? I am using a single JJ6386 LGP in my se Havana.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What tubes are in your Havana? I am using a single JJ6386 LGP in my se Havana.


 


  Looks like twin GE 5670's...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> "Yes... and it counts!"  - marv albert


 

 I heard Marv's very first broadcast when I was a kid and had the pleasure of working with him in the mid 80's.  Here's another variation.   "YESSSSSSSS! AND THE FOUL"!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I heard Marv's very first broadcast when I was a kid and had the pleasure of working with him in the mid 80's.  Here's another variation.   "YESSSSSSSS! AND THE FOUL"!


 


  You've some great memories! However, when you get your Woo, time to create some new memories...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Aloha oe. When I was a kid living in Hawaii we used to call the radio the Coconut Wireless.  Have fun in the sun!


 

 Coconut Wireless eh.  Will try that one out and see if it flies.
   

  
  A snap my wife took at the Honolulu airport waiting for the plane to Maui.  While on the plane, one of the passangers asked me about my LCD's as he was passing by.  He said they were such attractive headphones he just wanted to know what they were.
   
  Also, the TSA guy flipped out when he looked at my iPod/CLAS/SR-71B portable stack.  He cracked a bit of a smile and asked me what they usually do when they see it and I said, I was not sure this was my first time.  He looked at it, shrugged his sholders, and moved it over to xray.  Nobody else said anything about it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You've some great memories! However, when you get your Woo, time to create some new memories...


 

 The Woo WA 6SE is on very top of the list but it's getting a lot of competition from the Lyr, The Decware Taboo, The Decware Mini Torii, The soon to be announced Corvina, Schiits anticipated new amp, and the Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2.  Thats a lot of amps vying for my wallet and clawing at the Woo...
   
  "From Downtown!..."


----------



## Clayton SF

Heard over the airport speaker system: "Mr. Malter. There is a gate change. Mr. Malter. You're flight has changed. Hello? Mr. Malter. Hello?"


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Heard over the airport speaker system: "Mr. Malter. There is a gate change. Mr. Malter. You're flight has changed. Hello? Mr. Malter. Hello?"


 

 Probably had headphones on and didn't hear it...
   
  EDIT.  Just saw the photo of Mike with the LCDs!   Word has it he's still sitting there listening but his wife boarded and flew off...


----------



## Clayton SF

^  "Mr. Malter. You have a gigantic complimentary cafe latte waiting for you in First Class because of a First Class Upgrade. Mr. Malter?"
  "Oh forget it. He can't hear you. Just toss him in steerage with his LCD-2 v.2 headphones, portable amp, and all."


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^  "Mr. Malter. You have a gigantic complimentary cafe latte waiting for you in First Class because of a First Class Upgrade. Mr. Malter?"
> "Oh forget it. He can't hear you. Just toss him in steerage with his LCD-2 v.2 headphones, portable amp, and all."


 

 Offer him an upgrade to Hi Rez files...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Coconut Wireless eh.  Will try that one out and see if it flies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  For those of us with 'Cabin fever'... _a shot of the good life! Thanks for sharing, thanks for the inspiration. _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The Woo WA 6SE is on very top of the list but it's getting a lot of competition from the Lyr, The Decware Taboo, The Decware Mini Torii, The soon to be announced Corvina, Schiits anticipated new amp, and the Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2.  Thats a lot of amps vying for my wallet and clawing at the Woo...
> 
> "From Downtown!..."


 

 It will be strange this evening, watching the RAIDERS with echos of Marv in the back of mind.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yes, there's a lot competing for your wallet in and around that price point. Best-o-luck!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The Woo WA 6SE is on very top of the list but it's getting a lot of competition from the Lyr, The Decware Taboo, The Decware Mini Torii, The soon to be announced Corvina, Schiits anticipated new amp, and the Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2.  Thats a lot of amps vying for my wallet and clawing at the Woo...
> 
> "From Downtown!..."


 

 WHAT! Corvina. I've never heard of the Corvina. Okay. Where did you you hear of that one? Have I been living under a rock? Corvina sounds very elegant and sophisticated. Like James Bond would listen to a Corvina. Of course James Bond would own a Cavalli Audio Liquid Fire or a Woo, but he would definitely listen to a Corvina. Maybe even drive one!


----------



## WarriorAnt

It's not a rock you're under it's too many amps1  You need to sell me one.....Cheap.....
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/495631/amp-recommendations-for-audeze-lcd-2/3720#post_7723219


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, WarriorAnt. I just noticed your avatar. You're wearing an LCD-2! Cool. Yes. I do have too many amps. Since I've found it quite impossible to audition amps by going to meets I just buy them. Then I can't get sell them. They all have their unique signatures. As your profile states: you're an Aesthetic Junkie. And to that I can certainly relate.


----------



## shipsupt

mikemalter said:


> Also, the TSA guy flipped out when he looked at my iPod/CLAS/SR-71B portable stack.  He cracked a bit of a smile and asked me what they usually do when they see it and I said, I was not sure this was my first time.  He looked at it, shrugged his sholders, and moved it over to xray.  Nobody else said anything about it.




Interesting he took notice. I've done about 6 flights now, internationally and domestic, with pretty much the same stack, I've not even been asked to take it out of my bag.

Maybe that beard is giving you a shady look and they are profiling you! 

Did you listen on the plane? Curious how open headphones would fair with all that noise.

Enjoy the trip.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The Woo WA 6SE is on very top of the list but it's getting a lot of competition from the Lyr, The Decware Taboo, The Decware Mini Torii, The soon to be announced Corvina, Schiits anticipated new amp, and the Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2.  Thats a lot of amps vying for my wallet and clawing at the Woo...
> 
> "From Downtown!..."


 
  Geez.... Shiit audio is really putting out a lot of, uhhh............ Shiit in a short period of time.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I think those guys need to give their existing products a chance to actually sell a bit before putting out yet another new one.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 and how it pairs with their Woo amp? I am looking into some headphones around the $800-$1K mark and came across these. It's just another phone to throw into the mix. Eek!


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Get the LCD-2 and be done with it.  I owned the AD2000 and it is a great amp but I don't think the Woo is a great match, the only amp I love with AD2000 is ATH-HA5000.  Personally, I think it is more voiced to Asian vocals.


 

 Yeah, the WA6 pushed the vocals on the ATH-AD2000 too forward for me, and the LCD-2 or HE-500 pair better with it than the AD-2000.  I actually liked my ATH-ESW10JPN on the WA6 more, and sold my AD-2000 eventually (has Cardas cable done by Moon Audio).


----------



## grokit

For me the AD2K was just okay on my Woo, I actually like it best out of my portable rig (iMod>Vcap>Arrow) but it's also pretty decent out of my HTR's headphone jack.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

IMO the MHDT Balance Havana & WA22 make a great combo especially for HD800
  The MHDT guys are great to deal with as well.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now on deck awaiting review...
> 
> Looking forward to a Midnight rendezvous with the MHDT LAB Balanced Havana. Maybe if I can catch Clayton in between auditioning amps in the near future, we could mate the Havana to his WA22.
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes I do. http://emotiva.com/interconnects.shtm
  As I've mentioned. This weekend is open if you'd like to drop on by. Actually I do have a few chairs, although they may not be the most comfortable ones, so _Guests__ Beware_.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes I do. http://emotiva.com/interconnects.shtm
> As I've mentioned. This weekend is open if you'd like to drop on by. Actually I do have a few chairs, although they may not be the most comfortable ones, so _Guests__ Beware_.


 

 Thanks for the invite!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> IMO the MHDT Balance Havana & WA22 make a great combo especially for HD800
> The MHDT guys are great to deal with as well.


 

 Yes, they are. I also like their design philosophy and approach. I'm looking forward to hearing this combo soon (this weekend?).


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Interesting he took notice. I've done about 6 flights now, internationally and domestic, with pretty much the same stack, I've not even been asked to take it out of my bag.
> 
> Maybe that beard is giving you a shady look and they are profiling you!
> 
> ...


 

 Please keep this between us and don't tell anyone else, but I did try them on the plane, and had to go back to my Bose noise canceling headphones.  Please don't tell any of the guys because I would not want it know that I am using a pair of Bose headphones.  Man I am still so jet lagged I don't know what end is up.  Really glad we have PM's here on the board.


----------



## Silent One

Jet-lagged .  .  .
   
  It's likely, since mikemalter won't be shaving, he could afford to sleep in a bit before room service comes knockin'.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




     Time for my own power nap to restore my soul... and hearing. Back @ lunch!


----------



## shipsupt

Your secret is safe with me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Guys, we may need to talk about Mike's membership in the Woo-Club... I mean we have to have standards, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Please keep this between us and don't tell anyone else, but I did try them on the plane, and had to go back to my Bose noise canceling headphones.  Please don't tell any of the guys because I would not want it know that I am using a pair of Bose headphones.  Man I am still so jet lagged I don't know what end is up.  Really glad we have PM's here on the board.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Guys, we may need to talk about Mike's membership in the Woo-Club... I mean we have to have standards, right?


 

 I hope not, because I don't have any bribe money to keep myself in with.


----------



## sammyrambler

So I turned on my WA6SE tonight and put on a CD, but I can barely hear the sound even with the volume turned up high.
   
  I hear the music (very faintly mind you) so I figure everything has power etc....all lights are working and so on. I've tried multiple headphones so I know it isn't the headphones causing the issue.
   
  Have you guys experienced this sort of thing before?
   
  Do any of you know what might be the cause of this?
   
  (Please help!)


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> So I turned on my WA6SE tonight and put on a CD, but I can barely hear the sound even with the volume turned up high.
> 
> I hear the music (very faintly mind you) so I figure everything has power etc....all lights are working and so on. I've tried multiple headphones so I know it isn't the headphones causing the issue.
> 
> ...


 


  Try swap out the drivers tube.


----------



## sammyrambler

If the driver tubes were the problem would they sound great one day and then the next just be barely audible?
   
  I am using the stock Westinghouse tubes plus the Sophia. But I don't have any spares for the driver tubes.
   
  I guess I'll have to order some and try them out.
   
  Has anyone else had such a dramatic difference occur like this? I am new to tubes and I suppose I was under the impression that they would sort of slowly lose their sound quality over time...as opposed to this night and day thing?


----------



## jc9394

Did you checked all the connections?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I hope not, because I don't have any bribe money to keep myself in with.


 

 What, you are a closet Bose headphone listener as well?
  You'd better send me a check then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> So I turned on my WA6SE tonight and put on a CD, but I can barely hear the sound even with the volume turned up high.
> 
> I hear the music (very faintly mind you) so I figure everything has power etc....all lights are working and so on. I've tried multiple headphones so I know it isn't the headphones causing the issue.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried plugging the CDP into anything else just to make sure that's not your problem?


----------



## grokit

WA22 Rectifier Comparison  I have been trying to make some sense of the various rectifier tubes that are available to use in the WA22. I will attempt to put my “big three” of the EML 274B, EML 5U4G, and Sophia 274B Princess in context with four “lesser” rectifiers (by current reputation/consensus/price) in this opinionated, subjective, unscientific, yet head-to-head comparison of these seven different rectifier tubes.
   

   
  I was surprised that I didn’t like the *EML 274B* mesh plate tube better than I did upon first listen, so I gave it another shot after swapping it out for a few others and decided that it was a pretty nice tube after all. I traded an EML 5U4G for it, and while I am taken in by the 274B’s ability to separate instruments and its almost ethereal soundstage, it sometimes seems like the sound isn’t quite grounded, or rooted, to anything tangible. While it's a very nice tube in its own right I found it to be a bit lacking not just in the low end, but in overall dynamics as well compared to my venerable *Sophia 274B "Princess"*  and EML's 5U4G. The first time around on the EML 274B everything is in the right place but the sound seems strangely unmoored overall. Upon a second listen, I would say that the bass is definitely there but it’s just a bit thin; it could definitely be more visceral. 
   
  Shortly after I first rolled the 274B in, I swapped out my Shuguang Treasure driver tubes for a new backup pair. I thought that perhaps my failure to break these new drivers in properly could be contributing to my disappointment with the 274B, so I rolled the Princess back in for a listening session and decided that for me the culprit was definitely the EML.
   
   

   
  The Sophia will probably always be my "reference rectifier" for the WA22. To my ears, it has an agressive and upfront attitude without being fatiguing at all. It's a musical and detailed tube that presents the soundstage that's on the recording without any exaggeration or limitation. The imaging is quite refined, and imaging is spot on. The midrange is liquid, the treble is smooth and extended, and a the bass is deep and punchy. Instrument and vocal placement in space sounds totally natural, and most importantly to me it sounds the most accurate tonally. It isn't lacking in bass impact or extension, but I will concede that it could be a little thin in comparison to the EML 5U4G and the Brimar, in the mid-bass area which where I consider "thickness" to reside. The Sophia isn't quite as thin as the EML 274B is in that area though.
   
   

   
  Then I re-acquired another *EML 5U4G* for a more direct comparison. It has the most depth to it compared to either the EML 274B or the Sophia Princess rectifiers, but for me it wasn't as neutral or as aggressive as I would prefer with the WA22. While the EML 5U4G has more warmth than the EML 274B, it's not as dynamic as the Sophia Princess. The 5U4G is very 3D in its presentation though, and I can definitely appreciate why it is such a popular tube. 
   
   

   
  Switching to a *CBS-Hytron *(Tung Sol?)* 274B*, I must say that this tube is acquits itself very nicely. It shares the aggressive dynamics that I like so much about the Sophia and its overall sense of refinement and transparency comes very close as well. It’s nice and punchy in the low end, has an honest midrange, and plenty of depth overall. just the slightest sense of graininess up high if you are really looking for flaws, but it's definitely a keeper and a great backup for the Sophia Princess. If anybody can confirm if Tung Sol or someone else actually makes this tube please chime in.
   
   

   

   
  I have a pair of inherited *Shuguang 274B*s laying about that I didn’t care much for when I tried one out a while back, and installing them with fresh ears my impressions remain the same. I also have a *Russian 5U3C* that I don’t know anything about, I just consider it my stock rectifier. It’s not bad really, just nothing extra special either. Pretty accurate throughout, maybe just a bit thin in the mid-bass. It beats out the Shuguang by a longshot and is actually a pretty competent tube.
   
   

   
  The final tube in this 7-way comparison (but certainly not least) is a *Brimar 5Z4G *which I won a few months ago in auction and curiously hadn’t tried out yet. It’s definitely the smallest rectifier tube physically, barely taller than one of the Shuggie Treasure driver tubes that flanks it and definitely no bigger than one of those by girth. But this little bugger puts out a big-time sound, in fact my immediate reaction was that this is the anti-EML 274B. The Brimar has low-end depth and body in spades, immediately reminding me of the EML 5U4G in certain respects regarding 3D imaging and overall lushness. The higher frequency registers didn’t exactly reach out and grab me on first listen, but there was certainly no negativity in that area. Vocals are nicely rendered, and everything is presented well in space. I usually associate depth and body with warmth, but this Brimar doesn’t seem overly warm, not like an EML 5U4G anyways. Just a nice thick syrupy low end, with accurate mids and crisp highs. 
   
  In the strictest sense the Brimar would perhaps be more accurately described as the backup to the EML 5U4G while the CBS-Hytron has more in common with the Sophia. In a nutshell, the Brimar has warmth and musicality without sacrificing any precision. It’s slightly more musical than the CBS-Hytron, which is a bit punchier in comparison. Of course I am nitpicking; they are both excellent standby rectifiers for my Princess as neither really takes much of a back seat in comparison. They are dynamic, honest, detailed and musical tubes. While a bit different from each other they do share that low-end wallop that reminds me of the Sophia. 
   
  I don’t know how useful this review format (or lack of it actually) is for tubes in general is but I think that something like this would have helped me on my particular journey so I wrote it in the hope that it might benefit others. 
   
  In that spirit, here is my… *Final Ranking & Summary:*
   

_(click to enlarge)_
   
*1) Sophia 274B “Princess”*: It has the best combination of detail, tonal accuracy, and aggressiveness for my needs on the WA22. It has excellent imaging and separation, and provides every bit of soundstage that is available on the source recording.
   
*2) EML 5U4G*: I can see why this is a favorite tube of many, it has an amazing sense of depth but for me isn’t as aggressive as I would like for the WA22. I hate to use the term PRAT but this is where the Sophia wins for me.
   
*3) EML 274B*: I didn’t like this tube as much as I had hoped that I would. It is very nice as far as separation and imaging but it doesn’t have the depth of the 5U4G or the aggressiveness of the Princess and can sound a bit distant. 
   
*4) Brimar 5Z4G*: This one is more like the little brother of the EML 5U4G; lots of depth with a great low end that can be a bit loose at times, very nice tube.
   
*5) CBS-Hytron 274B*: This is a Sophia Princess “Light” if you will. Has a little graininess up high if you are looking for it but I could definitely live with this tube.
   
*6) Russian 5U4C*: This is a good, competent, and neutral tube that doesn’t really stand out in any way but doesn’t do anything wrong either. It’s a good choice for a stock rectifier tube by Woo, or it used to be (I think).
   
*7) Shuguang 274B*: Last and definitely least. The only good thing about these is they are cheap and available. The sound however is muddy, distant, and is actually annoying bordering on offensive. Recommended only for target practice.
   
   
_*UPDATE*_ (approximately 4 weeks later):
   
   "I have been spending some time doing more extended listening with the top three tubes in the above rankings, and have discovered that _I actually prefer the EML 5U4G the most with the HD800, and the EML 274B is my favorite with the LCD-2 _(rev.1). While _the Sophia remains my favorite for use with both of these headphones_, it is very close second to the respective EML front-runners with either headphone. So while _my overall ranking remains the same_, if I only had one headphone instead of both I would change the rankings accordingly. In this respect, to me the Sophia is represents the best compromise for use with both headphones."
_(end update)_
   
   
  I feel pretty good about the tubes that I am using ATM, which in addition to the Princess rectifier are the Shuguang Treasure CV181Z drivers, and the Sylvania 7236 power tubes. I have tried the Tung Sol version of the latter and like the sound of the Sylvania better but it’s very close. The 5998 is nice but not as good for my needs as the 7236, and the 6080 power tubes just don’t have the oomph that my headphones need so I haven't really explored them. 
   
  As far as the drivers go there are plenty of good ones out there but with the Treasures I feel like I have found a solution that will optimize my WA22 for both the LCD-2 rev.1, and the recent-issue HD800. I have tried many other drivers and they all have their good qualities and some were great with one headphone but not the other. The only drivers that I actually disliked was the Zenith 6SN6GTR.
   
  I have backups of my 7236 and Treasure tubes, and instead of getting a backup for the Princess as well I decided to explore a bit more, mainly by getting that EML 274B. It wasn’t the improvement on the Princess that I had hoped that it would be. From what I have read, I would like to try the solid plate version of it sometime, if anyone has one available please PM me as I would be willing to trade one of the mesh plate EMLs or purchase it.
   
   
*In conclusion: *
   
  I just want to emphasize that you don't have to spend a ton of $ to get excellent performance from a rectifier tube. While the current-issue Sophia and EMLs deserve their top rankings, there are some very good, relatively inexpensive NOS tubes out there that come incredibly close. The CBS-Hytron and Brimar in particular are very good tubes that I could totally live with, and I am quite sure that there are other excellent-sounding bargains to be had is the wide and wonderful world of rectifier tubes.


----------



## Silent One

I was following sammyrambler's experience tonight. Guess it's getting late that way. Was hoping for a late rally... or to hear that he exhausted his options. This is where saving old gear and accessories prove valuable...


----------



## Xcalibur255

A very nice writeup grokit, thank you for sharing it with us.  It's really great to see more of this kind of thing here.  Your Hytron 5U4G certainly looks like it is Tung Sol made, but the ones I have seen were bottom getters and not side getters.  The plate style matches Tung Sol though.
   
  I can definitely understand where you are coming from with the EML 274B.  I've found it takes the right driver tube to balance it out, otherwise it can indeed seem like the imaging lacks an anchor point.  With the right tube pairing it's possible to get the soundstage more normal sounding, but personally I like the expansiveness so long as the imaging has the proper center focus.  I always thought the 5U4G had too much of this focus, so I think a lot of it is just personal preference.  It's the note separation that makes the tube special, something I value greatly in musical presentation.  I can agree with your feelings on dynamics too.  The EML 274B makes some driver tubes sound lazy and slow.  It takes the better and faster ones to keep PRaT up to the level where it is satisfying.
   
  Hearing you describe the EML 5U4G as having more depth once again makes me really curious whether or not I'm missing out on something and might actually like it better than the 274B.  If the tubes were more affordable I would do just that, but at $270 I just can't justify it.  When you say "more depth" though, are you referring to soundstage only or the tube's ability to retrieve detail as well?  I've often found the EML 274B soundstage to be much greater in width than in height, but again I think driver tube pairing affects this a lot.  Compared to, say, my Brimar 5R4GY it has a lot more vertical depth (that tube only seems to throws things left and right for the most part).  Compared to the Tung Sol 5U4G that tube has at least as much vertical depth of soundstage, but not nearly as much horizontal width and probably the same front to back depth.
   
  You might find a nice balance with the EML 274B by trying other driver tubes.  For example with my '52 Sylvania chrome domes imaging is pinpoint accurate and they are toe-tapping fast, and with the black glass National Unions the soundstage is enormous in every dimension and axis, not just width.
   
  I'd love to hear more thoughts from you on your EML 274B vs 5U4G if you are willing to write more.  The 5U4G seems the clear favorite amongst WA22 owners, but rarely does anybody really go into detail about why they prefer it over the 274B.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sammyrambler said:


> If the driver tubes were the problem would they sound great one day and then the next just be barely audible?
> 
> I am using the stock Westinghouse tubes plus the Sophia. But I don't have any spares for the driver tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  If a tube outright fails you will hear a dramatic change, but normally they don't fail like that.  They just start to sound really bad beginning with sloppy bass and loss of focus.  When you say barely audible do you mean *just* ever so barely, or simply quiet comapred to before?  Does the volume control still affect this or can you hear faint music regardless of volume knob position?  It seems like you have lost your gain stage for some reason, either to a tube not working correctly or some other type of failure.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> WA22 Rectifier Comparison  I have been trying to make some sense of the various rectifier tubes that are available to use in the WA22. I will attempt to put my “big three” of the EML 274B, EML 5U4G, and Sophia 274B Princess in context with four “lesser” rectifiers (by current reputation/consensus/price) in this opinionated, subjective, unscientific, yet head-to-head comparison of these seven different rectifier tubes.


 
   
   
   

_(click to enlarge)_
   
   
  Nice write up!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A very nice writeup grokit, thank you for sharing it with us.  It's really great to see more of this kind of thing here.  Your Hytron 5U4G certainly looks like it is Tung Sol made, but the ones I have seen were bottom getters and not side getters.  The plate style matches Tung Sol though.
> 
> I can definitely understand where you are coming from with the EML 274B.  I've found it takes the right driver tube to balance it out, otherwise it can indeed seem like the imaging lacks an anchor point.  With the right tube pairing it's possible to get the soundstage more normal sounding, but personally I like the expansiveness so long as the imaging has the proper center focus.  I always thought the 5U4G had too much of this focus, so I think a lot of it is just personal preference.  It's the note separation that makes the tube special, something I value greatly in musical presentation.  I can agree with your feelings on dynamics too.  The EML 274B makes some driver tubes sound lazy and slow.  It takes the better and faster ones to keep PRaT up to the level where it is satisfying.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the feedback Xcalibur, it always feels a little weird when publishing impressions like that, wondering if others hear things the way that I do.
   
  After all of that I will be leaving the Sophia in for awhile for some "re-grounding", but my plan was already to get back to those EMLs for a more thorough comparison. So thanks for stating your interest, I will be sure to take more detailed notes when I do and publish a more thorough comparison. I will try rolling in some other driver tubes with the 274B as you suggest, that is a good point that I didn't make: that the whole comparison was based upon using the same driver and power tubes, and everything could change in combination with other tubes. I actually haven't tried it with any drivers except the Treasures yet.
   
  As far as the EML 5U4G goes, it's no slouch on detail to be sure but when I said depth what I meant was increasing the soundstage front to back, or up and down as you said. It really increases the euphonics of the already euphonic WA22 in a very seductive way. Woo knows :•), I may start to prefer it again over the Sophia, but when I was using it before I was always rolling tubes to accomodate different headphones and with the Sophia/Treasure combo I was able to get off that bandwagon. Keeping things "simple" can be challenging when there are so many combinations and possibilities!
   
  So now, that EML 274B solid plate remains the one rectifier tube that I want to try but I have no idea how to obtain one. Probably the only other drivers I would like to hear are the Mullard ECC33s, but I'm not that anxious like I am with that EML. Have you heard the 274B solid plate?
   

 Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice write up!





   
  Thanks WA


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> WA22 Rectifier Comparison  I have been trying to make some sense of the various rectifier tubes that are available to use in the WA22. I will attempt to put my “big three” of the EML 274B, EML 5U4G, and Sophia 274B Princess in context with four “lesser” rectifiers (by current reputation/consensus/price) in this opinionated, subjective, unscientific, yet head-to-head comparison of these seven different rectifier tubes.


 
   
   
   

_(click to enlarge)_
   
*_______________________________________________*
   
   
   
   
  grokit, that was so well written, so well thought out and put together, your review is still lingering.... quite nicely, I might add! And though the photography does a wonderful job to support the review, it's good enough to stand on its own!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> it always feels a little weird when publishing impressions like that, wondering if others hear things the way that I do.


 
   


 Detailed impressions of the various bottles is always good for my wallet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Detailed impressions of the various bottles is always good for my wallet.


 
   
   
   


  
  Seems then, head-fi is accomplishing some of its goals - _grokit_ _"nailed it" Olympic style!_


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> grokit, that was so well written, so well thought out and put together, your review is still lingering.... quite nicely, I might add! And though the photography does a wonderful job to support the review, it's good enough to stand on its own!


 
  Thanks for the kind words. I just sent you a PM, as I've been wondering how it's going in DAC land


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So now, that EML 274B solid plate remains the one rectifier tube that I want to try but I have no idea how to obtain one. Probably the only other drivers I would like to hear are the Mullard ECC33s, but I'm not that anxious like I am with that EML. Have you heard the 274B solid plate?
> 
> 
> Thanks WA http://files.head-fi.org/images/
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wow, the forum software really bugged out with that last post.  I can't even edit it to fix it. 
   
  Anyway my reply is within grokit's quoted post (only the very first paragraph is his quote) and the first part that is unreadable was me stating I hadn't heard an EML 274B solid plate because they were already discontinued by the time I bought mine, and that I agreed with grokit's practice of using the same driver tube throughout the writeup.  I was just suggesting some possibilities for finding more enjoyment from his EML274B in the future when I talked about using different driver tubes with it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I sort of got out of rectifier rolling after going the EML route because, in the end, if the tubes one keeps sampling don't achieve the same level of performance then they just sit in the tube box and collect dust for the most part once your initial curiosity is satisfied.  To my ears there is a pretty big difference between the EML and all of my NOS rectifiers so I decided I would always have an EML as my primary use tube.  They aren't superior in every way, and you hit on a couple of those facts in your writeup, but the EML seems to suit my own tastes very well so I figure why argue with that right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Wow, the forum software really bugged out with that last post.  I can't even edit it to fix it.
> 
> Anyway my reply is within grokit's post and the first part that is unreadable was me stating I hadn't heard an EML 274B solid plate because they were already discontinued by the time I bought mine, and that I agreed with grokit's practice of using the same driver tube throughout the writeup.  I was just suggesting some possibilities for finding more enjoyment from his EML274B in the future when I talked about using different driver tubes with it.


 

 There, I "fixed" it for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Text editing is definitely a challenge lately around here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Tube synergy can be a difficult thing to wrap one's head around when there are so many combinations with three different kinds of tubes in the same amp. I feel fortunate to have a 6SN7 tube stage in my high-powered rig to try those "spare" driver tubes on their own.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WarriorAnt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Detailed impressions of the various bottles is always good for my wallet.
> 
> ...


 
   

  Well it's backed me off from my tube lust for a while and thus my wallet stays intact.  When I actually see how deep the tube lust can run and how little I know I realize for a while I really don't have what it takes and I shy away until of course the lust begins again...Probably saved me a month in time.  Just means I'll be saving more though.   Does make the one tube Peak/Volcano more of a goal though.  Just one tube how wrong can I go...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the kind words. I just sent you a PM, as I've been wondering how it's going in DAC land


 


_"Now, where were we?!"_ That's the question I kept asking myself in the last couple of hours. I started with the sole purpose of burning the Havana in, while listening in. And I ended up connecting all three DACs to my Mac; Stand alone DVD Player. And then playing the disc "Tanto Tempo Remixes" - Bebel Gilberto on the DVD Player & Mac simultaneously; queued the tracks on both within a second or two of each other and switched back-and-forth between the three DACs hearing the same track at the same time.
   
  I'm almost certain if this had been my initial assignment at work and I deviated like that, _I would have been down the street! Finished!! Fired!!! But it still would have been fun.  _





  So now I got my focus back and will start the real session at 00:30 hours...


----------



## Icenine2

Check out this MBL video.  Really funny!  A must for all audiophiles!
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0fkNp4WLs


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Check out this MBL video.  Really funny!  A must for all audiophiles!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0fkNp4WLs


 


  What an indictment! Really enjoyed waking up to that, thanks Icenine2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Check out this MBL video.  Really funny!  A must for all audiophiles!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0fkNp4WLs


 


 Love those MBL speakers, when I was in NY last year, I sat in the showroom for over an hour listening to those...


----------



## Sesam

grokit thanks a lot for the WA22 Rectifier comparison, very interesting. I'm particularly intrigued about your Sophia Princess impressions, I haven't heard it described as aggressive before,  I have however it described as bright and having thin bass, would you agree with that sentiment? 
   
   
  Some of my thoughts rolling rectifiers with the WA22,
   
  EML 274B - Wide soundstage, and it's great for certain kinds of music, like Jazz for example.. But to me the vocals sound a bit too distant, and rock/metal the sound is too cold and thin. Also I find the highs to be too harsh for my ears. Also I prefer this rectifier with 6080 power tubes, and 6SN7GT drivers . 
   
  RCA 5U4GB - Warm and aggressive, narrow soundstage, smooth highs, great for rock/metal. Especially when paired with 7236 power tubes and Treasure drivers it has great punch. 

  Shuguang 274B - It's better than nothing, and these apparently grow on trees because somehow I ended up having five of these, anyone want to trade for Sophia Princess? 
   
  RCA 5R4GY - A pretty good overall tube, from the rectifiers I have tested so far this is pretty much middle ground .
   
   
  Now I wish I had money to get a EML 5U4G and a Sophia Princess. Also there is a plethora of 6SN7 tubes out there, and I'm sure there is probably one that would bring out the vocals more to my liking with the EML 274B.


----------



## Golfnutz

Grokit, I also wanted to thank you for the write-up. It was a pleasure reading your impressions.
   
  Too bad you didn't have a GZ34 or GZ37 to throw into the mix as well. For a third of the price, I feel it pretty close to the EML 5U4G. Based on your impressions, it's probably similar to the Brimar 5AR4.


----------



## Icenine2

The best system I ever heard had MBL speakers and all Reference Levinson gear.  Listened to "The Wall".   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Love those MBL speakers, when I was in NY last year, I sat in the showroom for over an hour listening to those...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Check out this MBL video.  Really funny!  A must for all audiophiles!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0fkNp4WLs


 

 Wow, that was amazing. Comes in 1.3rd place behind "Greek Audiophile".


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





grokit said:


> From what I have read, I would like to try the solid plate version of it sometime, if anyone has one available please PM me as I would be willing to trade one of the mesh plate EMLs or purchase it.


 
   
  Thanks for this writeup!  Glad to be of some assistance...
   
  I must admit I find the conclusion RE: EML 274b mesh vs. 5u4g somewhat troubling - I have a 274b solid and I know at the time it came out sillysally mentioned it had better soundstage/bass than the mesh, but of course the tube has undergone many changes since, first and foremost it's significantly smaller. 
   
  The depth of the soundstage on this old 274b is unreal - it sounds twice as deep as both the EML 5u4g and Princess 274b, also in contrast I find the highs to be much smoother.  The 3d effect, roundness of the notes, etc... things just seem to 'pop' out of space.  On the downside the sound is softer and less detailed, its not as exciting - the way you praise the Sophia I don't think you'd like it.
   
  I don't know what to do when this 274b solid goes to the graveyard.  I'll probably take my chances with whatever is the current 274b mesh, the 5u4g was too closed in for my taste (I'm only using Ed8s, which are closed in sounding by default).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> The best system I ever heard had MBL speakers and all Reference Levinson gear.  Listened to "The Wall".


 

 X2, best system I've ever heard was playing the Wall as well (MFSL). Was on an Audio Research mono block system, with AR CD player, and Dunlavy SC-V loudspeakers. The most natural sounding system I've ever heard.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> X2, best system I've ever heard was playing the Wall as well (MFSL). Was on an Audio Research mono block system, with AR CD player, and Dunlavy SC-V loudspeakers. The most natural sounding system I've ever heard.


 
  I've bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall over the years.   Finally I realized I just don't like the Wall...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall and bought the Wall and sold the Wall over the years.   Finally I realized I just don't like the Wall...


 

 Not my favorite either. Just so happened that's what was playing....


----------



## Silent One

MJ's "OFF THE WALL" on the other hand, now that was a monster! Heard it Amped; Bi-amped; Tri-amped and 'Blocked.' It always sounds great!


----------



## Golfnutz

Does anyone know if there's any problem plugging and unplugging headphones into a Woo amp while it's turned on (volume would be off)?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Does anyone know if there's any problem plugging and unplugging headphones into a Woo amp while it's turned on (volume would be off)?


 


  No problem!


----------



## markkr

I would be careful to have the volume turned down... thats it.


----------



## Golfnutz

OK, thanks guy's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> OK, thanks guy's.


 


  Are you revisiting the scene of a shootout: LCD-2.v2 versus HD800?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote:  





>





> the 5u4g was too closed in for my taste (I'm only using Ed8s, which are closed in sounding by default).


 


  This is my impression of every 5U4G I've heard.  As though everything is artificially reflected "inward" creating an intense center image.  The soundstage just seems to stop at a certain point instead of spreading out naturally.  I'm always wondering if the EML 5U4G is like this as well or if it is a bit closer to the 274B in presentation because the physical construction of the tubes appears identical.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is my impression of every 5U4G I've heard.  As though everything is artificially reflected "inward" creating an intense center image.  The soundstage just seems to stop at a certain point instead of spreading out naturally.  I'm always wondering if the EML 5U4G is like this as well or if it is a bit closer to the 274B in presentation because the physical construction of the tubes appears identical.


 

 If you had a EML 5U4G on loan, how much time would you require to sort this out?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the kind words. I just sent you a PM, as I've been wondering how it's going in DAC land


 

 Great write up Vince! A fantastic post and contribution.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are you revisiting the scene of a shootout: LCD-2.v2 versus HD800?


 

 Still too early SilentOne.  More break-in time required. Either way, I'll be keeping them both.
   
  Let me put it this way. Would you rather kiss a women who's an extremely good kisser, but has really bad breath. Or, a women who's an OK kisser, but has the freshes breath you've ever kissed.  They both have their strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is my impression of every 5U4G I've heard.  As though everything is artificially reflected "inward" creating an intense center image.  The soundstage just seems to stop at a certain point instead of spreading out naturally.  I'm always wondering if the EML 5U4G is like this as well or if it is a bit closer to the 274B in presentation because the physical construction of the tubes appears identical.


 


 I don't find this to be the case with the HD800, but more so with the LCD-2's. I think source components can also vary the attributes for something like this.


----------



## jerico

mikemalter said:


> Please keep this between us and don't tell anyone else, but I did try them on the plane, and had to go back to my Bose noise canceling headphones.  Please don't tell any of the guys because I would not want it know that I am using a pair of Bose headphones.  Man I am still so jet lagged I don't know what end is up.  Really glad we have PM's here on the board.




Hey Mike - I had a pair of those Bose too (!), for plane use. I ditched them for a pair of IEMs (Ultimate Ears fit me best) - if you get a good seal in your ear on an IEM, they're almost as good as noise cancelling. No kidding! IMHO anyway.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Still too early SilentOne.  More break-in time required. Either way, I'll be keeping them both.
> 
> Let me put it this way. Would you rather kiss a women who's an extremely good kisser, but has really bad breath. Or, a women who's an OK kisser, but has the freshes breath you've ever kissed.  They both have their strengths and weaknesses.


 

  
  Hadn't quite seen it put like that before... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  but which can represents the former/latter? Maybe I should fix dinner first!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hadn't quite seen put like that before...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LCD-2 is an excellent kisser (but really uncomfortable to wear (compared to HD800), also a bit worried about listening fatigue) , but I really like the freshness of the HD800 (very comfortable, can wear them all day no problem without any fatigue at all).


----------



## grokit

Thanks again for the kind words everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





sesam said:


> grokit thanks a lot for the WA22 Rectifier comparison, very interesting. I'm particularly intrigued about your Sophia Princess impressions, I haven't heard it described as aggressive before,  I have however it described as bright and having thin bass, would you agree with that sentiment?


 

  You made me realize that I should have put a bit more focus on the bass of these tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will do that when I start re-comparing the "big three" in more detail a bit down the road. But my general impressions on my rig, with my tubes, is that the Sophia isn't lacking in bass impact or extension. But I will concede that it could be a little thin _in comparison_ to the EML 5U4G and the Brimar, in the mid-bass area which where I consider "thickness" to reside. The Sophia isn't quite as thin as the EML 274B is in that area, but I am looking forward to trying that EML with different driver tubes as Xcalibur advised to see if I can 'rectify' that situation (pun unavoidable). I will update that comparison with the above impression re the bass on the Sophia, thanks!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Still too early SilentOne.  More break-in time required. Either way, I'll be keeping them both.
> 
> Let me put it this way. Would you rather kiss a women who's an extremely good kisser, but has really bad breath. Or, a women who's an OK kisser, but has the freshes breath you've ever kissed.  They both have their strengths and weaknesses.


 
  Those are the keepers for my Woo as well
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Interesting analogy, but _really_ bad breath? Yech!
   

 Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> LCD-2 is an excellent kisser (but really uncomfortable to wear (compared to HD800), also a bit worried about listening fatigue) , but I really like the freshness of the HD800 (very comfortable, can wear them all day no problem without any fatigue at all).






  When you say listening fatigue, are you referring to physical comfort fatigue, or something to do with the sound? If it's to do with the sound signature most impressions I have read are the opposite, but if you are referring to physical comfort I know what you mean; that also agrees with the impressions I have read as well as my own experience. I am on my second LCD-2 because of physical comfort issues, and my second HD800 because of sound signature issues, both of which have been resolved.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> LCD-2 is an excellent kisser (but really uncomfortable to wear (compared to HD800), also a bit worried about listening fatigue) , but I really like the freshness of the HD800 (very comfortable, can wear them all day no problem without any fatigue at all).


 
  Benn kissing my LCD-2's all night and nothing, I'm coming up short.  I'm going back to wearing them on my head and listening to music.


----------



## rmilewsk

I have tried the LCD2's with the WA22 and both the sophia princess (woo upgrade tube) and the EML 5U4. I think the Sophia Princess sounds slightly better than the EML. The SP sounds more open compared to the EML which sounds slightly more veiled to me. The EML sounds a bit reticent to me compared to the SP. I also have the woo upgraded power tubes (7236) and upgraded driver tubes (shaguang treasure).
   
  That being said I will also say that I was not completely happy with the sound I was getting with any of these tube combinations and the LCD2's. Then I tried the violectric HPA V200. This is the best amp I have ever heard with the LCD2s. I've listened to the above WA22 and the burson HA160. The WA with any of the tube combinations sounds more liquid than the HPA especially in the midrange. However, the overall presentation of the music is much more coherent and the dynamics are just as good with the V200. There is a sense of movement and flow to the music through the HPA V200 that the other amplifiers can not match. The WA22 sounds broken to me compared to the V200. I don't mean broken as in a tube has a crack in it. I mean broken as in when listening to a song all of the parts don't sound like they are coming from the same performance. The midrange sounds too distinct from the bass and from the treble. The pieces are shown with a spotlight on them. The V200 plays the music as one organic whole.  I am still shocked at the price of the V200 compared to how good it sounds.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rmilewsk said:


> I have tried the LCD2's with the WA22 and both the sophia princess (woo upgrade tube) and the EML 5U4. I think the Sophia Princess sounds slightly better than the EML. The SP sounds more open compared to the EML which sounds slightly more veiled to me. The EML sounds a bit reticent to me compared to the SP. I also have the woo upgraded power tubes (7236) and upgraded driver tubes (shaguang treasure).
> 
> That being said I will also say that I was not completely happy with the sound I was getting with any of these tube combinations and the LCD2's. Then I tried the violectric HPA V200. This is the best amp I have ever heard with the LCD2s. I've listened to the above WA22 and the burson HA160. The WA with any of the tube combinations sounds more liquid than the HPA especially in the midrange. However, the overall presentation of the music is much more coherent and the dynamics are just as good with the V200. There is a sense of movement and flow to the music through the HPA V200 that the other amplifiers can not match. The WA22 sounds broken to me compared to the V200. I don't mean broken as in a tube has a crack in it. I mean broken as in when listening to a song all of the parts don't sound like they are coming from the same performance. The midrange sounds too distinct from the bass and from the treble. The pieces are shown with a spotlight on them. The V200 plays the music as one organic whole.  I am still shocked at the price of the V200 compared to how good it sounds.


 


  Approximately how many hours were on the Sophia Princess and EML 5U4G at the time?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> When you say listening fatigue, are you referring to physical comfort fatigue, or something to do with the sound? If it's to do with the sound signature most impressions I have read are the opposite, but if you are referring to physical comfort I know what you mean; that also agrees with the impressions I have read as well as my own experience. I am on my second LCD-2 because of physical comfort issues, and my second HD800 because of sound signature issues, both of which have been resolved.


 

 The first session I had with the LCD-2's were a bit uneasy. Second night was one of adjustment but getting use to it. Third night was seamless - no longer remained an issue of comfort; could relax and enjoy the music...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Those are the keepers for my Woo as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 At this point both.  I need to adjust to the extended bass frequencies and closer soundstage  - I'm just finding it a bit in your face at this point.  One thing I can say is that I like the vocal presentation on LCD-2 better.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Benn kissing my LCD-2's all night and nothing, I'm coming up short.  I'm going back to wearing them on my head and listening to music.


 

 Try putting some of the oil on your headphones that came with your purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I just find them to be a touch overbearing at this point (compared to HD800). I'm sure they'll change with sufficient break-in.


----------



## Icenine2

Isn't it getting close to new Woo amp release time?  And the DAC as well I believe.  Any word from anyone yet?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Isn't it getting close to new Woo amp release time?  And the DAC as well I believe.  Any word from anyone yet?


 

 I noticed they're on the list of exhibitors at TAVES (Toronto Audio Video Entertainment Show), from September 30 - October 2 - http://www.taveshow.com/Visitors/exhibitors.html
   
  Maybe they'll show or announce something then.


----------



## jc9394

Any Woo owners compared the Q cable with a silver cable with LCD-2? I have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon and wants to try the Q.


----------



## strannik

Wow, I don't recognize the names of any other exhibitors. That's a bit discouraging, since I can probably drop by the show relatively easily.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I noticed they're on the list of exhibitors at TAVES (Toronto Audio Video Entertainment Show), from September 30 - October 2 - http://www.taveshow.com/Visitors/exhibitors.html
> 
> Maybe they'll show or announce something then.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Wow, I don't recognize the names of any other exhibitors. That's a bit discouraging, since I can probably drop by the show relatively easily.


 


 Maybe for you. I recognize almost all of them. Mostly local audio stores, importers, and manufactures.
   
  I'm sure you've heard of Anthem, Audio Note, Bryston, Kimber Cable, Nordost, Oracle, Paradigm, Totem, Woo Audio....


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Any Woo owners compared the Q cable with a silver cable with LCD-2? I have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon and wants to try the Q.


 

 I know Skylab has, as a matter of fact he has his Silver Dragon in the 'For Sale' section. Say's he's using the Q-Audio cable now.
   
  Just checked the LCD-2 - Aftermarket Cable Forum, and Wedge also prefers the Q-Audio cable. I did a search on Silver Dragon and looked for references to Q-Audio.


----------



## Yitaro

Still in one piece Takezo.  Thanks for help and guidance.  Just finished with the caps replacement.  Just like you said, the instrument separation and transparency has improved.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Maybe for you. I recognize almost all of them. Mostly local audio stores, importers, and manufactures.
> 
> I'm sure you've heard of Anthem, Audio Note, Bryston, Kimber Cable, Nordost, Oracle, Paradigm, Totem, Woo Audio....


 


  Same here and I wish I'm at GTA that week...


  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I know Skylab has, as a matter of fact he has his Silver Dragon in the 'For Sale' section. Say's he's using the Q-Audio cable now.
> 
> Just checked the LCD-2 - Aftermarket Cable Forum, and Wedge also prefers the Q-Audio cable. I did a search on Silver Dragon and looked for references to Q-Audio.


 


 I saw that too but not sure he is selling it because he does not like it with Woo or he prefer it with his vintage receiver.  I think Skylab use his LCD-2 mostly with his vintage receiver.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I know Skylab has, as a matter of fact he has his Silver Dragon in the 'For Sale' section. Say's he's using the Q-Audio cable now.
> 
> Just checked the LCD-2 - Aftermarket Cable Forum, and Wedge also prefers the Q-Audio cable. I did a search on Silver Dragon and looked for references to Q-Audio.


 
  I'm using the Q cable now also.  I posted an impression about it a few weeks ago.   Have not tried the silver dragon though.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm using the Q cable now also.  I posted an impression about it a few weeks ago.   Have not tried the silver dragon though.


 
   
  are you using a Woo for comparison and by any chance tried a silver cable with lcd-2?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> are you using a Woo for comparison and by any chance tried a silver cable with lcd-2?


 

 I have APS V3 with the LCD-2 R2 but also want to try the Q Cable, too. And there are some good reviews wih this cable.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Wow, I don't recognize the names of any other exhibitors. That's a bit discouraging, since I can probably drop by the show relatively easily.


 


  Where's your sense of adventure? That's all the more reason to go - to Look, Learn, Listen & Love. How many more "L's" do you need in audio?


----------



## Icenine2

Jerico here has a WA22, Silver Dragon and ALO LCD2 cables.


----------



## strannik

Just one more "L", for Lose money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Step 1: show up there. Step 2: fall in Love with some 40k speaker system. Step 3: attend funeral for wallet.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Where's your sense of adventure? That's all the more reason to go - to Look, Learn, Listen & Love. How many more "L's" do you need in audio?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Just one more "L", for Lose money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 






   
  Yeah, I tried to side-step that last "L!"


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I have APS V3 with the LCD-2 R2 but also want to try the Q Cable, too. And there are some good reviews wih this cable.


 


  yeah, i saw those review too and very interested in the q cable since it is much lighter


  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Jerico here has a WA22, Silver Dragon and ALO LCD2 cables.


 

 is the ALO comparable to q?  I'm afraid the Q cable is too warm when using wa22


----------



## Icenine2

I would just PM him the question.  I think he's using just the Moon's now.
   
  FWIW I have Moon Blue Dragon IC's  Silver less expensive version of the Silver Dragon.  Nice!  He's(Drew) excellent to do business with as well.  I want to upgrade my cable at some point here as well and probably will do  the Moon.  Cardas has one coming out but probably muy expensive.


----------



## bobeau

Fantastic timing - my old solid plate 274B gave up the ghost   A fuse blew when I started it up on Tues, replaced and it worked fine until starting up this morning.  Then it succeeded to another and produced a pretty arc while doing so.  My SP 274b works fine so I'll be using that for awhile...
   
       Quote:


sesam said:


> EML 274B - Wide soundstage, and it's great for certain kinds of music, like Jazz for example.. But to me the vocals sound a bit too distant, and rock/metal the sound is too cold and thin. *Also I find the highs to be too harsh for my ears.*


 
   
  Does anyone else have this impression for a recent production EML 274b?  This worries me - the old EML was anything but this, it was definitely the smoothest/least fatiguing in the upper region of any of the tubes I've tried on my 6SE.  grokit didn't mention this, just that the sound was ungrounded and seemed to lack definition.


----------



## Sesam

Thats good to hear from a person who has compared the Princess to the EML 274B. I always thought the Sophia would be an extremely bright and thin tube, with little bass (compared to the EML 274B). So next time I have some money to spend, I'm going to buy the Sophia Princess 274B rigid plate (because based on pseudo science rigid plates should sound thicker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 
   
  Also I'm looking forward to hearing about your driver tube adventures with the EML, I have yet to find a combination I'm completely satisfied with.
   
   Quote:


grokit said:


> Thanks again for the kind words everyone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Does anyone else have this impression for a recent production EML 274b?  This worries me - the old EML was anything but this, it was definitely the smoothest/least fatiguing in the upper region of any of the tubes I've tried on my 6SE.  grokit didn't mention this, just that the sound was ungrounded and seemed to lack definition.


 

 Mine went through a phase during break-in where it sounded harsh at the top end.  It took a while to come out of it, but it did.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Mine went through a phase during break-in where it sounded harsh at the top end.  It took a while to come out of it, but it did.


 

 That makes sense, mine was already broken in when I was doing my initial evaluation.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yeah, i saw those review too and very interested in the q cable since it is much lighter
> 
> 
> 
> is the ALO comparable to q?  I'm afraid the Q cable is too warm when using wa22


 

 For me the Q was a neutral cable with very good clarity.  I do not believe it is a colored cable.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Mine went through a phase during break-in where it sounded harsh at the top end.  It took a while to come out of it, but it did.


 
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> That makes sense, mine was already broken in when I was doing my initial evaluation.


 
   
  Cool, thanks guys. 
   
  BTW, I thought the comments regarding the bass seemed interesting... after listening to the SP 274b all day, the midbass is definitely more prominent and tighter, but overall the bass doesn't have the same gravity.  It comes off as less realistic.  I think this by and large is due to the frequency response of my Editions 8s... they drop something like 10db between 30-60 hz with a solid midbass hump.  Most TOTL cans are going to be relatively flat here.  The EML 274b probably brings the Ed8s closer to say what someone hears on an HD800 w/ the 5u4g.  The midbass is somewhat pummeling and fatiguing after listening nonstop for about 4 hours straight.


----------



## xinque

Could anyone tell me how long the umbilical cord is on the WA5 / WA5-LE?  Not sure if it's only one length or if Jack offers several, I'm guessing there are performance issues with the longer length.  Trying to figure out if I have enough space.  Thanks !


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Could anyone tell me how long the umbilical cord is on the WA5 / WA5-LE?  Not sure if it's only one length or if Jack offers several, I'm guessing there are performance issues with the longer length.  Trying to figure out if I have enough space.  Thanks !


 


 The stock cable should be around 12" in length, better confirm with Jack and you can always ask him for an offer of a longer one. He is responsive and would answer your question always in a short period (at least I experienced). BTW, I don't think there's audible different with a longer length of the umbilical cord  let say double of it's stock length.


----------



## shipsupt

Jack made me a custom longer umbilical for my 6SE, I went with 24" so I could stack on shelves one on top of the other.  Jack said there would be no performance issues, and I can't hear any difference between the two.  I run with the longer connection all the time now.  I am making the assumption he can do the same for the 5/5LE.
   

  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Could anyone tell me how long the umbilical cord is on the WA5 / WA5-LE?  Not sure if it's only one length or if Jack offers several, I'm guessing there are performance issues with the longer length.  Trying to figure out if I have enough space.  Thanks !


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Jack made me a custom longer umbilical for my 6SE, I went with 24" so I could stack on shelves one on top of the other.  Jack said there would be no performance issues, and I can't hear any difference between the two.  I run with the longer connection all the time now.  I am making the assumption he can do the same for the 5/5LE.


 


  What would the 24" option run? I may want to invest to have greater flexibility inside the room... thanks!


----------



## spagetka

I asked Jack similar question few month ago...
   
_[JACK]_
_The length of DC cord is 18''. It allows you to place the units 6'' apart. Double length is $90 extra._


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Could anyone tell me how long the umbilical cord is on the WA5 / WA5-LE?  Not sure if it's only one length or if Jack offers several, I'm guessing there are performance issues with the longer length.  Trying to figure out if I have enough space.  Thanks !


 

 The one thing to keep in mind, is both the Amp and PSU should have nothing over them and be well ventilated.


----------



## jamesnz

this has probably been covered a million times, but are there any opinions on 6SE + LCD2 from you wiser and more experienced woothusiasts? For the rock genre? I'm using 650s (for jazz, classical and rock) and love them, but they are as loose/soft(?) as I'd probably want to go for rock.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> this has probably been covered a million times, but are there any opinions on 6SE + LCD2 from you wiser and more experienced woothusiasts? For the rock genre? I'm using 650s (for jazz, classical and rock) and love them, but they are as loose/soft(?) as I'd probably want to go for rock.


 

  
  6SE + LCD-2r1 is a superb combination. Very fast ,dynamic and powerful sound
   
  If you are using HD650's now, prepare to be stunned!!


----------



## jerico

icenine2 said:


> I would just PM him the question.  I think he's using just the Moon's now.
> 
> FWIW I have Moon Blue Dragon IC's  Silver less expensive version of the Silver Dragon.  Nice!  He's(Drew) excellent to do business with as well.  I want to upgrade my cable at some point here as well and probably will do  the Moon.  Cardas has one coming out but probably muy expensive.




I have been neglecting my thread reading the past few days!

I actually prefer the Moon Silver Dragon to the ALO with the LCD2 (rev1) and Woo 22. The ALO sounds great, but is noticeably warmer to me. It is also pretty bulky (I have the Chain Mail 8 - the thicker one, all copper).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I have been neglecting my thread reading the past few days!
> 
> I actually prefer the Moon Silver Dragon to the ALO with the LCD2 (rev1) and Woo 22. The ALO sounds great, but is noticeably warmer to me. It is also pretty bulky (I have the Chain Mail 8 - the thicker one, all copper).


 
  Thanks for the input, that is what I'm afraid on copper cable with tube amp.


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> What would the 24" option run? I may want to invest to have greater flexibility inside the room... thanks!




I don't recall exactly, I think it was right around $120. He offered it for less if i wanted to send in the shorter cable in exchange but I kept both for changing my setup in the future.


----------



## WooAudio

Hi All,
   
  We have just made an announcement for a new flagship amp. Please check the Sponsor Announcement thread.
   
  The new 24/192k DAC and top loading CD transport will also be released at the same time.
   
  Cheers,
 Jack


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> Hi All,
> 
> We have just made an announcement for a new flagship amp. Please check the Sponsor Announcement thread.
> 
> ...


 


  And quite an announcement too!
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/571942/wa-234-mono-the-latest-amplifier-from-woo-audio#post_7757740
   
  I am looking forward to hearing it at RMAF.  Because I certainly cannot afford to buy one!  But I bet it's spectacular.


----------



## Silent One

New Woo, who knew?!
   
  Exciting! This comes as a wonderful compliment to this morning's breakfast (Silent One tosses the L.A. Times aside).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I don't recall exactly, I think it was right around $120. He offered it for less if i wanted to send in the shorter cable in exchange but I kept both for changing my setup in the future.


 


  Think I'll be keeping the twin chassis design close at that price. Think of the audiophile grade vinyl that could be had in its place...


----------



## Icenine2

$10K?  That is in rare air.  I wonder what the upgrades are?
   
  So with headphone connection are you going one XLR of two for the headphone nto each amp?


----------



## musicman59

Funny, laste year at Canjam Jack and I taked about making a WA5 balanced amplifier. Dureing the discussion we kick arounf the concept and he mentioned it would need to be a monoblock version with 3 pieces. One power supply unit and two amplification units (one per channel) and the cost would be around the $10K range. Now there is a flag ship monoblock amplifier released and at about the same price point.
   
  It's really fantastic how fast Jack was able to bring to reallity a concept based on an idea during a conversation


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				WooAudio said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> We have just made an announcement for a new flagship amp. Please check the Sponsor Announcement thread.
> The new 24/192k DAC and top loading CD transport will also be released at the same time.
> Cheers,
> Jack


 
   
  I think it is very exciting to see Woo Audio branch out with a DAC and a CD transport. I would love to have a Woo CD transport and Woo DAC both a-sitting pretty right next to a Woo amp.
   
  Well done, Jack!


----------



## dannie01

While Jack is releasing some good news, BAD luck again to me.
   
  Yes, it happens again on my WA5LE. I'm listening Mutter's Tchaikvosky Violin Concerto, the amp suddenly without sounding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I checked the Linn DS connection instantly in my laptop, no, it didn't. Then I looked at the amp, both 2 blue power lights are on, the EAT300Bs and 6SN7s are lighted up too but the EML 5U4G, they are not lighting up anymore, sign...................................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now, I've turn it off and wait for it to cool down and will try if it can on and sound again. I have a spare Russia 5Z4G stock tubes on hand, if the EML cannot be lighted up  again I will try with these tubes. Hope the EML will not die so soon together while I just have a pair of Mullard being dead.
   
   
  EDIT 1. Turn the amp on again but with no luck, the EML 5U4Gs are not lighting up and of course, no sound at all. Replaced the EMLs by Rusia 5Z4G and turn on the amp again, there is nothing happen in first few seconds then some blue sparks light inside the Russia tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then the tubes light up in normal and the amp sound again. OMG, that's mean I have another pair of costly tubes went bad. I've checked with those mesh plate on the EML 5U4G, both 2 plates are quite dark in color and something like rust on it. I will checked with my invoice from Jacmusic see wheter they are still under the warranty or not. Wish me luck guys, wondering I have to hold back the purchase of the Q Cable for the LCD-2 for a new pair of 5U4G 
   
  EDIT 2. Just checked the invoice from JacMusic, bad bad news again and again, the warranty just expired on 22 Aug 2011,&%^&*(*&%$$#@@


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> While Jack is releasing some good news, BAD luck again to me.
> 
> Yes, it happens again on my WA5LE. I'm listening Mutter's Tchaikvosky Violin Concerto, the amp suddenly without sounding.
> 
> ...


 


  Sorry to hear bout your experience - we're hoping for the best! Please tell me you've had the EML Glass for more than 12 months (I'm getting concerned... again).


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey, dannie01. I am so sorry to hear that. So 2 EML 5U4G mesh plate tubes are not lighted? This is your modded WA5LE, yes?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sorry to hear bout your experience - we're hoping for the best! Please tell me you've had the EML Glass for more than 12 months (I'm getting concerned... again).


 


 Correct, the warranty just expired for less than a month........................................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, dannie01. I am so sorry to hear that. So 2 EML 5U4G mesh plate tubes are not lighted? This is your modded WA5LE, yes?


 

  Yes, only in the driver unit but I have nothing mod in the PSU that's where the EML sitting.


----------



## dannie01

Beside the Mullard ECC32, I have another pair of EML 5U4G Mesh Plate that will be framed in a good looking wood frame hang in my wall for decoration. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, beside EML, does anyone could recommend something good NOS, thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Beside the Mullard ECC32, I have another pair of EML 5U4G Mesh Plate that will be framed in a good looking wood frame hang in my wall for decoration.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So both of the EMLs died at exactly the same time? That is curious. I don't think tubes themselves would go bad at exactly the same time unless the amp had something to do with it. Just my guess.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So both of the EMLs died at exactly the same time? That is curious. I don't think tubes themselves would go bad at exactly the same time unless the amp had something to do with it. Just my guess.


 


 Yes, that's wierd. The Mullard and EML died exactly in the same time, check it again and found both 2 are no lighting up. But the amp is now back to sings again with the Russia tubes.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yes, that's wierd. The Mullard and EML died exactly in the same time, check it again and found both 2 are no lighting up. But the amp is now back to sings again with the Russia tubes.


 

 Dannie, I wouldn't be investing in anything too expensive as a replacement (not yet anyway). If it happens again, then there's definitely something wrong with the amp.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Golfnutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Dannie, I wouldn't be investing in anything too expensive as a replacement (not yet anyway). If it happens again, then there's definitely something wrong with the amp.


 

 Agree, I put the stock Russia tubes in it and let it run for some days or weeks to see if it will go wrong again or not. Will not put any expensive replacement in the moment.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Agree, I put the stock Russia tubes in it and let it run for some days or weeks to see if it will go wrong again or not. Will not put any expensive replacement in the moment.


 

 In addition to checking (and rechecking) the PSU, I would also check the household current - something is taking them out!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In addition to checking (and rechecking) the PSU, I would also check the household current - something is taking them out!


 


 Thanks for the advise but I don't think there is a matter about the household current since I have the WA5LE connected to a 2000w isolation transformer.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the advise but I don't think there is a matter about the household current since I have the WA5LE connected to a 2000w isolation transformer.


 
  At any time did the fuse get blown? Probably not, otherwise you would have mentioned it.


----------



## shipsupt

I'd be nervous about the amp at this point.  Are there some checks that can be made to be sure things are within specification?
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> So both of the EMLs died at exactly the same time? That is curious. I don't think tubes themselves would go bad at exactly the same time unless the amp had something to do with it. Just my guess.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> At any time did the fuse get blown? Probably not, otherwise you would have mentioned it.


 








 You are correct.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You are correct.


 

 On a performance note, did you drop in a HiFi Tuning Supreme or Furutech in that bad boy?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On a performance note, did you drop in a HiFi Tuning Supreme or Furutech in that bad boy?


 


 You are right, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse replaced in same current in slow blow.


----------



## rosgr63

Hi Danny,
   
  Sorry to hear this my friend.
   
  Tell Jac what's happened to the EML he might be able to replace it FOC.
  He's a very nice person.


----------



## takezo

hey dannie, have you checked the bad tubes to see what is wrong with them? using a tube tester may let you know what may've happened. the blue spark is arcing, which is not what should be happening to a good tube. try other rectifiers to see if the arcing is constant. if so, the power supply may be in need of servicing.


----------



## jc9394

Danny,  so sorry to heard both your tubes went bad.  Is it possible the ECC32 cause the EML went south?  It is very strange both the driver and rectifier die at the same time.  The EAT are fine?  I will take them out for a while to make sure is not the amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You are right, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Got a Furutech in the Woo. And a 'Supreme' going into the W4S DAC-1 soon...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> Hi All,
> 
> We have just made an announcement for a new flagship amp. Please check the Sponsor Announcement thread.
> 
> ...


 


  Jack, will any of the design and technology advances in the new amp trickle down to other existing products in the line in the future?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wow, that's a shame to hear about your EML tubes dannie.  It's just too suspicious for both of them to go at the exact same time though, there must be an abnormal operating condition somewhere.  The fact that the tubes you put in just afterwards were arcing only makes it more suspicious.  The NOS tubes seem to be made of "tougher stuff" so we apparently never get to see an EML tube arc, it just dies.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Looks like a great concept but I have to be honest If I'm going to spend $10K I'm going back to the the realm of high end speakers.  The headphone experience just doesn't have the innate magic to warrant such an expense, whereas $10K spent in the high end speaker world will bring an unmatched magical return.  This is not to say the amps are not worth $10K.  It's just that we are talking about headphone sonics and one does have to suspend a certain sonic sensibility to accustom oneself to it's realm.


----------



## xinque

Checked with Jack and he said the umbilical cable could go up to 48" without performance loss.  I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on a WA5-LE with the parts upgrade.  Still haven't decided on the tubes yet though.  Couple of questions if you guys could help, have tried searching but some of these threads are just massive.
   
  1.  Is the general consensus that you can't go wrong with any combination of the EML or Sophia Princess tubes?
  2.  How are the Shuguang Treasures?  Jack mentioned he had Black Glass tubes that outperformed the EML 300B at a cheaper price point, assuming he meant the Shuguangs.
  3.  Any recommendations for the driver tubes?
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The stock cable should be around 12" in length, better confirm with Jack and you can always ask him for an offer of a longer one. He is responsive and would answer your question always in a short period (at least I experienced). BTW, I don't think there's audible different with a longer length of the umbilical cord  let say double of it's stock length.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Beside the Mullard ECC32, I have another pair of EML 5U4G Mesh Plate that will be framed in a good looking wood frame hang in my wall for decoration.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry to read this.
   
  Here are the specs differences, this may be the problem any why I never get away from using non drop in nos tubes.

 *[size=x-small]ECC32 Filament Current .95 Amp versus .6 Amp for the 6SN7GTB
[/size]*
 *[size=x-small]ECC32 Mu (Amplification Factor) of 32 versus 20 for the 6SN7GTB
[/size]*
 
 
 *[size=x-small]ECC32 Plate Voltage is 300V MAX versus 450V MAX for the 6SN7GT [/size]*
 
   
  I had the same problem with one of my EML 5U4G's going bad, and the same results except my TSRP's didn't blow. Replaced both the EML 5U4G's with a new pair I got from George and sent the bad EML 5U4G back to Jack for a free replacement. After that I have not had any problems. Plus imo I don't like the fact that the ECC32 or any drive tubes with the same shape are so close to the 300B's.
   
  imo the LCD2's and HE6's put a heavy load on the PSU and AMP and if you are not careful the AMP can become very hot if the room temp goes up and or you don't have very good air movement.
  I would think the last thing you want to do is send 90lbs of amp/psu/boxes back to Jack for repairs. Anyway that is one of the reasons why I went with a Liquid Fire amp (15lbs) and now have my WA5LE in storage. Plus the fact that my system is geared toward SE and I find the LF to be as well balanced as any balanced amp. I am not saying the the LF is that much better than my WA5LE (with my tubes) using my HE6's, but it is just so much easier to use and a lot cheaper to tube roll plus it has a two year warranty and just 15lbs and one box if it ever needs repairs. Plus I like the RCore transformer that is used in the LF, very low noise floor.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Looks like a great concept but I have to be honest If I'm going to spend $10K I'm going back to the the realm of high end speakers.  The headphone experience just doesn't have the innate magic to warrant such an expense, whereas $10K spent in the high end speaker world will bring an unmatched magical return.  This is not to say the amps are not worth $10K.  It's just that we are talking about headphone sonics and one does have to suspend a certain sonic sensibility to accustom oneself to it's realm.


 
  Yes you are right but you forgot one thing and that is room acoustics, so the same thing can be said about speakers.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes you are right but you forgot one thing and that is room acoustics, so the same thing can be said about speakers.


 

 Well I can pretty much take any room and adjust the acoustics, that's not a problem for me, Ive done it many times, and I can also take the near $4K I've spent on my head phone rig and compile a speaker rig that would simply humiliate the headphone rig and that price would include money spent on room acoustics.  But my current family logistics requires I use headphones instead. Headphones are a very limited medium and it take a real adjustment to accept their sonics.   It's been quite an adjustment, really a sonic and perceptive downgrade that required I stay away from speakers altogether for an extended period to adjust to the realm of headphone reproduction.  

 The current headphone scene reminds me of what happened in the very late 80's and early 90's when the golden age of high end audio succumbed to the every increasing price of anything designed began to sky rocket past the affordable and out of the realm of the average audiophile.   Most of this price design was fueled by the designer ego wars that consumed the market thereafter and is still prevalent today.  This is what is happening today in the headphone realm.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well I can pretty much take any room and adjust the acoustics, that's not a problem for me, Ive done it many times, and I can also take the near $4K I've spent on my head phone rig and compile a speaker rig that would simply humiliate the headphone rig and that price would include money spent on room acoustics.  But my current family logistics requires I use headphones instead. Headphones are a very limited medium and it take a real adjustment to accept their sonics.   It's been quite an adjustment, really a sonic and perceptive downgrade that required I stay away from speakers altogether for an extended period to adjust to the realm of headphone reproduction.
> 
> The current headphone scene reminds me of what happened in the very late 80's and early 90's when the golden age of high end audio succumbed to the every increasing price of anything designed began to sky rocket past the affordable and out of the realm of the average audiophile.   Most of this price design was fueled by the designer ego wars that consumed the market thereafter and is still prevalent today.  This is what is happening today in the headphone realm.


 



 Wow you are magician  if you can "pretty much take any room and adjust the acoustics" using a MCH speaker system. I sure can't do that, just changing the room size would be amazing trick.
   
  I think you need to look at a different headphone rig and if you did I am sure you wouldn't make this statement"$4K I've spent on my head phone rig and compile a speaker rig that would simply humiliate the headphone rig and that price would include money spent on room acoustics" particularly if you are getting into MCH audio as I do using my headphone rig for MCH audio, but yes it would cost more that 4K. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But yes just like anything if you want to play you have to pay, no use complaining about inflation that is not going to change anything.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Wow you are magician  if you can "pretty much take any room and adjust the acoustics" using a MCH speaker system. I sure can't do that, just changing the room size would be amazing trick.
> 
> I think you need to look at a different headphone rig and if you did I am sure you wouldn't make this statement"$4K I've spent on my head phone rig and compile a speaker rig that would simply humiliate the headphone rig and that price would include money spent on room acoustics" particularly if you are getting into MCH audio as I do using my headphone rig for MCH audio, but yes it would cost more that 4K.
> 
> ...


 
  I'm certainly no magician but I have helped design the acoustics of a few edit suites in NYC and CT. Every room a different dimension creating a different problem.  When it comes down to it the problems are not that complex and most often similar and require just an adjustment of a basic acoustic approach.
   
  I think you entirely missed the point if think I'm complaining.   Constructive and realistic criticism is not complaining.
   
  Also I know some folks who can humiliate a $4K headphone rig with just $1K.  I can't do that myself but I know an ear or two that certainly can.
   
  I have an professional acquaintance who built a MCH mixing suit in NYC for Sponge Bob mixes and his playback is excellent and the playback section of the  suite cost less than $4k.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> While Jack is releasing some good news, BAD luck again to me.
> 
> Yes, it happens again on my WA5LE. I'm listening Mutter's Tchaikvosky Violin Concerto, the amp suddenly without sounding.
> 
> ...


 

  
   
  I would be carful about using expensive rectifier tubes in Woo amps. I don't know about the WA5 but the WA22 uses a 330uf input capacitor after the 5U4 when a 5U4
  can only handle a max of 40uf. EML will state this on there web site.
    Woo uses a timer at turn on so the cap charges through a resistor then the timer jumps out the resistor this is still not good. The timer doesn't reset right away that is why
  you can't turn the amp off and right back on so if the lights blink do to the power company the rectifier will blow up. Also this is probably why your Russian 5Z4s sparked on turn on 
  This is why so many rectifiers are blowing up in woo amps.


----------



## jc9394

If I read sillysally's comment correctly, I'm glad I made the decision not get the ECC32 and spend the money on a beta22 for LCD-2.

Another topic, got a pair TS7236 from Jack and it is cooking with the NU 6F8G, they sound great from get go.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Checked with Jack and he said the umbilical cable could go up to 48" without performance loss.  I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on a WA5-LE with the parts upgrade.  Still haven't decided on the tubes yet though.  Couple of questions if you guys could help, have tried searching but some of these threads are just massive.
> 
> 1.  Is the general consensus that you can't go wrong with any combination of the EML or Sophia Princess tubes?
> 2.  How are the Shuguang Treasures?  Jack mentioned he had Black Glass tubes that outperformed the EML 300B at a cheaper price point, assuming he meant the Shuguangs.
> 3.  Any recommendations for the driver tubes?


 

Yes I like the EML5U4G and I am using those tubes in my WA5LE, I didn't like the Shugang Treasure CV 181-Z and replaced the with a nos matched pair of TSRP 6SN7GT (1942), I also replaced my Shugang Treasure "Black Bottle" 300B-Z with with a nos matched pair of WE300B (26/56).
   
However I did keep my Treasure 300B-Z (about 200hours of use) as a back up to my WE300B's and I do have a extra set of matched nos TSRP's 6SN7GT oval mica date code (9/1942).


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I would be carful about using expensive rectifier tubes in Woo amps. I don't know about the WA5 but the WA22 uses a 330uf input capacitor after the 5U4 when a 5U4
> can only handle a max of 40uf. EML will state this on there web site.
> Woo uses a timer at turn on so the cap charges through a resistor then the timer jumps out the resistor this is still not good. The timer doesn't reset right away that is why
> you can't turn the amp off and right back on so if the lights blink do to the power company the rectifier will blow up. Also this is probably why your Russian 5Z4s sparked on turn on
> This is why so many rectifiers are blowing up in woo amps.


 



 It was said some time back that Jack had been in direct communication with Emission Labs about this and that things were supposed to be okay with the WA22 despite the input cap value.  If there were a continuing issue it would be troubling to see it go unresolved at the very least.  The information about the slow start timer is very interesting and informative btw.  Moral of the story is to have the WA22 on a battery backup perhaps?


----------



## Clayton SF

If expensive 5U4 rectifier tubes like the EMLs are always blowing on Woo amps, what kind of specs should an amp have to take advantage of the EML 5U4 and not bite the dust? I'd hate to see distributors of the EML "eating" those tubes when the amp actually wasn't spec'd out for the EML in the first place.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> If expensive 5U4 rectifier tubes like the EMLs are always blowing on Woo amps, what kind of specs should an amp have to take advantage of the EML 5U4 and not bite the dust? I'd hate to see distributors of the EML "eating" those tubes when the amp actually wasn't spec'd out for the EML in the first place.


 


 This isn't a EML issue even tho EMLs are more sensitive then NOS. A 330uf input capacitor should not be used with any 5U4


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm certainly no magician but I have helped design the acoustics of a few edit suites in NYC and CT. Every room a different dimension creating a different problem.  When it comes down to it the problems are not that complex and most often similar and require just an adjustment of a basic acoustic approach.
> 
> I think you entirely missed the point if think I'm complaining.   Constructive and realistic criticism is not complaining.
> 
> ...


 

 No I didn't miss the point.
   
  Do you really think this "Sponge Bob suit" can even come close to a sound studio like what you would find at AIX sound studio's out in LA, and yes I have been there and that is were I made all my PRIR's from using there #1 room acoustics and all the rest of there high end gear along with the sound engineer setting everything up for me.
   


  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I would be careful about using expensive rectifier tubes in Woo amps. I don't know about the WA5 but the WA22 uses a 330UFO input capacitor after the 5U4 when a 5U4
> can only handle a max of 40UFO. EMIL will state this on there web site.
> Woo uses a timer at turn on so the cap charges through a resistor then the timer jumps out the resistor this is still not good. The timer doesn't reset right away that is why
> you can't turn the amp off and right back on so if the lights blink do to the power company the rectifier will blow up. Also this is probably why your Russian 5Z4s sparked on turn on
> This is why so many rectifiers are blowing up in woo amps.


 

 Yes I agree, that is why I have posted about being very careful using these amps if you are using a high end rectifier.
  Keeping the room at about 74 degrees with good air circulation and letting the amp cool down to room temp for at least one hour before you turn it back on. Also when you are using tubes that almost touch each other imo isn't a good idea.
   


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If I read sillysally's comment correctly, I'm glad I made the decision not get the ECC32 and spend the money on a beta22 for LCD-2.
> 
> Another topic, got a pair TS7236 from Jack and it is cooking with the NU 6F8G, they sound great from get go.


 

 You did.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This isn't a EML issue even tho EMLs are more sensitive then NOS. A 330uf input capacitor should not be used with any 5U4


 
   
  yikes, even the  wa6se has a 10 uf cap as the first cap. i had to modify the wa6 by redoing the powersupply by incorporating
  a 22uf cap for the first position from a 330 uf stock, just for piece of mind. why would the wa22 be using a 330 uf for the first position? amazing.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> No I didn't miss the point.
> 
> Do you really think this "Sponge Bob suit" can even come close to a sound studio like what you would find at AIX sound studio's out in LA, and yes I have been there and that is were I made all my PRIR's from using there #1 room acoustics and all the rest of there high end gear along with the sound engineer setting everything up for me.


 
  No I do not think it can come close to a studio like that but with Sponge Bob they are not scoring and mixing sound for movies or anything on a grand scale, lets be realistic, it's Sponge Bob and the most taxing concern is the correct placement of sound within the soundfield.  Mostly dialogue and effects and a complimentary musical track.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





takezo said:


> yikes, even the  wa6se has a 10 uf cap as the first cap. i had to modify the wa6 by redoing the powersupply by incorporating
> a 22uf cap for the first position from a 330 uf stock, just for piece of mind. why would the wa22 be using a 330 uf for the first position? amazing.


 

 This is a cheap way to reduce any 120hz hum without adding another choke in the power supply.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> While Jack is releasing some good news, BAD luck again to me.
> 
> Yes, it happens again on my WA5LE. I'm listening Mutter's Tchaikvosky Violin Concerto, the amp suddenly without sounding.
> 
> ...


 


  Sorry to hear about it Danny. I personally don't think it is a coincidence. If I remember correctly your ECC32 went out first and nor your EML. In both cases both tubes at the same time, right? There has to be something wrong with the amp to burn the tubes. I would contact Jack telling him all the details to see if he can direct you on what to check in the amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Heh, you guys are spooking me a bit with all this.  I had always figured on using an EML tube in my Woo amp, which ever one that may be.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Okay, so this gets even more interesting.....  The EML 274B wants to see a max cap value of *4uF* vs 33uF on the 5U4G, making it even more sensitive.  So if my WA6 has a 330uF cap in this position why hasn't my EML tube blown up yet?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Heh, you guys are spooking me a bit with all this.  I had always figured on using an EML tube in my Woo amp, which ever one that may be.


 

 Na don't worry about it, besides you don't have a WA22.
  Just make sure your amp inside and out cools down to room temp and use the right tubes. Don't forget Jack sells hundreds of these amps and after all they are hand made one at a time.


----------



## grokit

The only time an EML blew on my WA22 was when I was doing some "agressive rolling", I think the key is to give it that full 1 hour rest in between power ups as I haven't had any problem since.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Na don't worry about it, besides you don't have a WA22.


 
  Yet.    This is why I'm so interested in this discussion, besides the fact that it is interesting in its own right.  I've said it before, but I enjoy learning how these things work.


----------



## Silent One

Best practices ~
   
  The operating temp of my Woo is a lot like an elegant green tea inside an air conditioned room - never above warm and cools quickly. And I still go with a one hour minimum for best practices. I did make an exception last month rollin' @ 30 - cold with time to spare.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Hi Danny,
> 
> Sorry to hear this my friend.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks, Stavros. I will email Jac see what would he help in my case.
   


  Quote: 





takezo said:


> hey dannie, have you checked the bad tubes to see what is wrong with them? using a tube tester may let you know what may've happened. the blue spark is arcing, which is not what should be happening to a good tube. try other rectifiers to see if the arcing is constant. if so, the power supply may be in need of servicing.


 


 I can only see both tubes with something like rust on the plate and nothing special. Or maybe I can't tell what was wrong on them. The arcing is only be seen on the Russia tubes when I swapped it into the amp and turn in on again in a very short time when I found the EML were not working. It is not constant and have never seen any arcing ever in the EML before they died.


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny,  so sorry to heard both your tubes went bad.  Is it possible the ECC32 cause the EML went south?  It is very strange both the driver and rectifier die at the same time.  The EAT are fine?  I will take them out for a while to make sure is not the amp.


 

  Thanks, John and I have no idea what was happening either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Fortunately, the EATs are still working.


  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Wow, that's a shame to hear about your EML tubes dannie.  It's just too suspicious for both of them to go at the exact same time though, there must be an abnormal operating condition somewhere.  The fact that the tubes you put in just afterwards were arcing only makes it more suspicious.  The NOS tubes seem to be made of "tougher stuff" so we apparently *never get to see an EML tube arc, it just dies*.


 


 That's really suspicious, the pair of Mullard and the EML both died exactly in the same time but no clue what went wrong. I have the amp place in a wooden rack and they definitely have enough space for ventilation. Also, I will have the air-conditioner always on (alternatively in the bed room and living room) no matter we're at home or not because we have a cat and wanna keep a comfortable temperature.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Sorry to read this.
> 
> Here are the specs differences, this may be the problem any why I never get away from using non drop in nos tubes.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for the information, ss. That would be a BIG problem to ship the amp back to Jack for service, we are half of the earth apart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would rather write Jack an email and let him know what was happened and wait for his advise what I can do locally.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Heh, you guys are spooking me a bit with all this.  I had always figured on using an EML tube in my Woo amp, which ever one that may be.


 


  I won't worry about it. I have a pair of 300B Mesh and a pair of 5U4G Mesh in my WA5-LE for over a year with no problems at all.....knock on wood!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Okay, so this gets even more interesting.....  The EML 274B wants to see a max cap value of *4uF* vs 33uF on the 5U4G, making it even more sensitive.  So if my WA6 has a 330uF cap in this position why hasn't my EML tube blown up yet?


 


  The WA6 output tubes draw allot less current then these larger amps.
   
  How can I explain this  OK If you think of the electricity as water and the input capacitor as a tank . The rectifier changes AC to pulsating DC the amp needs pure DC
  so it fills the capacitor/tank the more the amp draws the more it takes out of the tank. So the tank/capacitor is refilled 100 times a second 120 times a second in the US.
  This to large tank your WA6 only takes a little out of the tank so not much has to be replaced through the rectifier. But in the bigger amps it empties the tank more that
  gets replaced in less then a 100th of a second. This causes a large inrush of current that is going over current for the 5U4.
  This is why there is a max rating for the input capacitor so this over current doesn't happen especially at turn on when the capacitor is completely discharged / empty tank.
   
  I hope this explains to you why you are getting away with a 274B in a WA6 with a in proper input capacitor.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the information, ss. That would be a BIG problem to ship the amp back to Jack for service, we are half of the earth apart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It would probably be cheaper to fly Jack and his father out to stay with you for a week to have them fix it for you personally!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I would be carful about using expensive rectifier tubes in Woo amps. I don't know about the WA5 but the WA22 uses a 330uf input capacitor after the 5U4 when a 5U4
> can only handle a max of 40uf. EML will state this on there web site.
> Woo uses a timer at turn on so the cap charges through a resistor then the timer jumps out the resistor this is still not good. The timer doesn't reset right away that is why
> you can't turn the amp off and right back on so if the lights blink do to the power company the rectifier will blow up. Also this is probably why your Russian 5Z4s sparked on turn on
> This is why so many rectifiers are blowing up in woo amps.


 

 Thanks for the response,Glenn. I have some pics taken earlier when I have the amp received that show below. There are 3 x 220uf/450v caps use in it instead of 330uf which in the WA22. If 5U4G could only use 40uf cap or less, why the value in the amp is much higher than what it should have? I have no know edge about tube amp but only swapping better component to utilize tit's ability (IMHO). That was what I've been done in my WA5LE and the WA6SE and WA22 which I owned and sold previously.
   
  The same tubes combo (Mullard ECC32, EAT 300B and EML 5U4G) have been used in the WA5LE for several months without any problem and sounds very nice to my ears so dunno what was really happening recently.
   
  If, the pics can tell something, please kindly figure it out what and where should do in it, I'm wondering most of the amp with 300B are use the same power tubes and driver tubes so they should have similar circuit and expert can tell something about this, I hope.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Sorry to hear about it Danny. I personally don't think it is a coincidence. If I remember correctly your ECC32 went out first and nor your EML. In both cases both tubes at the same time, right? There has to be something wrong with the amp to burn the tubes. I would contact Jack telling him all the details to see if he can direct you on what to check in the amp.


 

 Yeah, Jose, maybe I'm just really bad luck. It works perfect for months but went bad both suddenly, I don't think it's a coincidence aslo and I will ask Jack how we can work out with this problem.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It would probably be cheaper to fly Jack and his father out to stay with you for a week to have them fix it for you personally!


 

 You are absolutely right, my friend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your valuable advise.


----------



## Skylab

Another advantage to the good ole Tung Sol 5U4G. Sounds good, reliable as rock, not expensive.


----------



## xinque

Was actually looking at this tube combo for WA5, assuming you meant the EMLs.  How does it sound?  I'm guessing pretty awesome.  
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I won't worry about it. I have a pair of 300B Mesh and a pair of 5U4G Mesh in my WA5-LE for over a year with no problems at all.....knock on wood!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Another advantage to the good ole Tung Sol 5U4G. Sounds good, reliable as rock, not expensive.


 


 Yup, I have TS 5U4G coke bottle in my WA6SE and sound great but it's rarely found today especially for a matched pair.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the response,Glenn. I have some pics taken earlier when I have the amp received that show below. There are 3 x 220uf/450v caps use in it instead of 330uf which in the WA22. If 5U4G could only use 40uf cap or less, why the value in the amp is much higher than what it should have? I have no know edge about tube amp but only swapping better component to utilize tit's ability (IMHO). That was what I've been done in my WA5LE and the WA6SE and WA22 which I owned and sold previously.
> 
> The same tubes combo (Mullard ECC32, EAT 300B and EML 5U4G) have been used in the WA5LE for several months without any problem and sounds very nice to my ears so dunno what was really happening recently.
> 
> If, the pics can tell something, please kindly figure it out what and where should do in it, I'm wondering most of the amp with 300B are use the same power tubes and driver tubes so they should have similar circuit and expert can tell something about this, I hope.


 


 From what I see they use the same timer that charges the capacitor through a resistor at turn on then jumps out the resistor after 10sec or so.
  Also It looks like they have the two 5U4 filaments are in series then hooked to ten volts they do this with the 6SN7s and hook them to 12 volts
  This would mean that only one 5U4 is burned out If one burns out the other tube will go out like series connected Christmas lights.
  I would go to someone that has a tube tester and test them to see which one is bad  also do this with the ECC32s.
  If you have a ohm meter you can check them for continuity between pins 2 & 8 on the 5U4s and pins 7 & 8 on the ECC32s to see which one is bad.
  I would say that only one of the 5U4s are bad.
  I wouldn't put the EML that is good in the amp along with a Russian rectifier at the same time these two different tubes might draw different filament current  that would cause one to light brighter when series connected.


----------



## Yitaro

Wow....10 grand for a headphone amp!!!!!!  The main reason why I got into head-fi is the price/performance ratio.  I can get a really nice set up for a less than a grand.  For 10 K, I would happily move back to a YBA / Martin Logan combo where more than one person can enjoy the music at one time.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The NOS tubes seem to be made of "tougher stuff" so we apparently never get to see an EML tube arc, it just dies.


 

 My EML 274b solid arc'ed like a tesla coil when it died.


----------



## bobeau

Quote:


yitaro said:


> Wow....10 grand for a headphone amp!!!!!!  The main reason why I got into head-fi is the price/performance ratio.  I can get a really nice set up for a less than a grand.  For 10 K, I would happily move back to a YBA / Martin Logan combo where more than one person can enjoy the music at one time.


 

 Anyone surprised by a $10k headphone amp as some new frontier hasn't been around here long enough.
   
  Singlepower used to sell a variant of the SDS that I believe exceeded that and a few head-fiers had that setup circa 2004-2006 timeframe.
   
  As far I can tell nothing's really changed in the head-fi game... if anything the current state of the economy probably has made things pull back a bit.  I find it odd that for instance an R10 will linger around the FS for weeks before being picked up.  Usually they would sell almost immediately, as well as any orpheus, HE60, K1000, qualia, rare audio technica woodies... just about any difficult to find TOTL discontinued headphone, and many times at prices exceeding what people are asking today.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> From what I see they use the same timer that charges the capacitor through a resistor at turn on then jumps out the resistor after 10sec or so.
> Also It looks like they have the two 5U4 filaments are in series then hooked to ten volts they do this with the 6SN7s and hook them to 12 volts
> This would mean that only one 5U4 is burned out If one burns out the other tube will go out like series connected Christmas lights.
> I would go to someone that has a tube tester and test them to see which one is bad  also do this with the ECC32s.
> ...


 


 Thanks Glenn. Just checked with a DMM with ohm testing as advise to measure pin 2 & 8 of the EML 5U4G, one of the tube without any reading but in the other tube I have a reading in 0.4ohm shown in the meter. Is that mean the one without any reading was a bad tube?
   
  For the ECC32, one with reading in 1.0ohm and the other in 1.1ohm, are they fine with these reading?
   
  Anyway, I will try to take both tube to test with a tube tester.


----------



## Icenine2

When I did have my WooWA22 the EML 5U blew after about 5 months.  George from TubesUSA replaced it without issue (thanks again George!)  At the time George had build questions about the WA22 which I couldn't answer and he said he'd ring up Jack.  Voltage questions too.  Do other amps have the same issue's w/EML's?  I'm just glad I'm done with all that since I've got the Liquid Fire now.


----------



## rosgr63

Testing rectifiers is not the same as driver/power tubes.
   
  I recommend this article by a good friend Bob Putnak of tubesound.com
   
  http://tubesound.com/2010/08/25/testing-a-balanced-rectifier-on-a-tube-tester/


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Testing rectifiers is not the same as driver/power tubes.
> 
> I recommend this article by a good friend Bob Putnak of tubesound.com
> 
> http://tubesound.com/2010/08/25/testing-a-balanced-rectifier-on-a-tube-tester/


 

  Noted with thanks, Stavros. I ask someone who have a tube tester to have them tested.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The WA6 output tubes draw allot less current then these larger amps.
> 
> How can I explain this  OK If you think of the electricity as water and the input capacitor as a tank . The rectifier changes AC to pulsating DC the amp needs pure DC
> so it fills the capacitor/tank the more the amp draws the more it takes out of the tank. So the tank/capacitor is refilled 100 times a second 120 times a second in the US.
> ...


 

 Thank you for the excellent explanation Glenn, it makes perfect sense.  So assumedly there are side benefits to oversizing the cap in this position, as you mentioned a bit back in the thread it can smooth out line hum for example.  It can't be a coincidence that the majority of EML tube failures are from WA22 amps though, and in an amp as expensive as it is it couldn't have been a big deal to include the necessary filter choke to eliminate the line hum so perhaps there is another reason or more variables than has been brought to light. 
   
  I personally feel this is one of those situations where Jack Wu should clarify things for the owners to prevent assumptions and mis-information from being spread around, but maybe I'm out of line to say such a thing.


----------



## Clayton SF

There are some Woo amps that have ss rectifiers. The WA3 and the WA4. There must be advantages to ss rectifiers then. Is it possible to burn out ss rectifiers, too?


----------



## Silent One

Somewhere inside this thread it was reported last year that George approached Jack and presented his concerns regarding the EML Glass failures in WA22 amps. And that Jack informed George the WA22's design was fine and not responsible for the premature deaths (failures? not strong enough word!) of EML 5U4G rectifiers. Anyone remember this discussion? Maybe this came on the heels of Icenine2's experience...


----------



## jamesnz

So is there any news on the DAC yet? inputs/outputs? If it has 2 optical going in and an xlr and rca out (like DACmagic), I'll be in with a grin.


----------



## grokit

^ Vaguely. I also remember something about a SS rectifier in a tube form factor that could be used in a WA22, as I remember the impressions were mixed on the sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Somewhere inside this thread it was reported last year that George approached Jack and presented his concerns regarding the EML Glass failures in WA22 amps. And that Jack informed George the WA22's design was fine and not responsible for the premature deaths (failures? not strong enough word!) of EML 5U4G rectifiers. Anyone remember this discussion? Maybe this came on the heels of Icenine2's experience...


 

 This previous discussion is what I was getting at before.  I really would like to just take the statement as truth and move on, but real world experiences of the users seems to suggest that the WA22 and EML tubes have a compatibility issue that remains unresolved.  On the one hand we have the designer saying the pairing is fine, and on the other we have users complaining that their tubes keep failing prematurely.  I'm the sort of person who really wants to have some specific explanation on why or why not when it is asserted that a problem does or does not exist.  We've had some very knowledgeable and experienced users bring some information to light suggesting there might be an issue, but no detailed information to reinforce the assertion that the pairing is safe to use other than the simple statement that "it is." 
   
  Also, with that, I'm done beating on the drum.  It'd be nice to hear, definitively, that the EML tubes are technically safe to operate in the amp, but I doubt anything I write here will affect the chances of getting such a confirmation.  If the tubes in question weren't nearly $300 a pop it wouldn't be such a big deal, but they should be expected to last out their normal operational lifespan for such a price and if it is the amps' fault for this not being the case I think owners should be very concerned about that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ Vaguely. I also remember something about a SS rectifier in a tube form factor that could be used in a WA22, as I remember the impressions were mixed on the sound.


 


  I vaguely recall reading something about SS rectifiers not being safe to use in the Woo which are designed for tube rectifiers.  No idea if I'm recalling that right or not so take it with a huge grain of salt.  At the very least it would probably result in a more SS-esque sound due to the lower voltage sag.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks Glenn. Just checked with a DMM with ohm testing as advise to measure pin 2 & 8 of the EML 5U4G, one of the tube without any reading but in the other tube I have a reading in 0.4ohm shown in the meter. Is that mean the one without any reading was a bad tube?
> 
> For the ECC32, one with reading in 1.0ohm and the other in 1.1ohm, are they fine with these reading?
> 
> Anyway, I will try to take both tube to test with a tube tester.


 


 Yes the one without the reading is the bad one the other one is still good.
  The ECC32s i suppose are still lighting up I hadn't gone back far enough to see what the problem with these were. I guess they just started to sound bad?? 
  Well this isn't as bad you just have to buy one EML and not two


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This previous discussion is what I was getting at before.  I really would like to just take the statement as truth and move on, but real world experiences of the users seems to suggest that the WA22 and EML tubes have a compatibility issue that remains unresolved.  On the one hand we have the designer saying the pairing is fine, and on the other we have users complaining that their tubes keep failing prematurely.  I'm the sort of person who really wants to have some specific explanation on why or why not when it is asserted that a problem does or does not exist.  We've had some very knowledgeable and experienced users bring some information to light suggesting there might be an issue, but no detailed information to reinforce the assertion that the pairing is safe to use other than the simple statement that "it is."
> 
> Also, with that, I'm done beating on the drum.  It'd be nice to hear, definitively, that the EML tubes are technically safe to operate in the amp, but I doubt anything I write here will affect the chances of getting such a confirmation.  If the tubes in question weren't nearly $300 a pop it wouldn't be such a big deal, but they should be expected to last out their normal operational lifespan for such a price and if it is the amps' fault for this not being the case I think owners should be very concerned about that.


 


  +2
   
  I'm with you on this position - claims vs real world experience. And yes, $300 a pop makes it a worthy and continued discussion. I'd be interested in learning more about the failures with the EML 5U4G in other amps for a bigger picture. Additionally, EML had production issues (twice in three years) and had to shut down production to revamp but I could never learn why. There could be something about the EML's make-up/production that could prove telling from other rectifiers.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Ah, yes, you make a very good point about Emission Labs having their own troubles.  All the more reason why I'd prefer to have the whole picture.  It could very well be true that the Woo amps have no fault in the matter and EML tubes simply have quality control issues.  Ironically in the beginning people were touting the quality of EML because Sophia was having so much trouble with their tubes too, and now the opinion seems to have reversed.
   
  Still, if Glenn says the cap value and slow start design is a cause for concern I'm inclined to take what he says seriously.  If there really is a problem everybody, including Woo Audio, stands to benefit by implementing design improvements to address the concern.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> When I did have my WooWA22 the EML 5U blew after about 5 months.  George from TubesUSA replaced it without issue (thanks again George!)  At the time George had build questions about the WA22 which I couldn't answer and he said he'd ring up Jack.  Voltage questions too.  Do other amps have the same issue's w/EML's?  I'm just glad I'm done with all that since I've got the Liquid Fire now.


 
  I just got a E-Mail about the WA6SE that I had sold to a Head-Fi about the same problem with the WA6SE blowing the rectifier in the pre October 2008 WA6SE. My WA6SE was built in 2009 after Jack had made the change. However after using my Liquid Fire compared to my WA5SE and WA6SE and how the start-up delay works in these amps the Liquid Fire seems to be fool proof. Once turned off but still hot there is a 45 sec delay before the full power will come on with the Liquid Fire, as were the WA6SE/WA5LE will come right on with no delay and that no delay imo is what is causing these tubes to have a much shorter life span.
   
  Of-course there is something that you can do with the Woo amp and that is to wait until the Woo is at room temp before turning it on and then the delay should work. However in my neck of the woods there is sometimes a power loss of a second or so, causing the Woo to turn off and then back on with out any delay once more shorting the tube life. There is very little you can do about this unless you are very quick and turn off the power knob on the Woo before it comes back on. And yes after this happen once with my WA6SE I would jump out of my chair and turn off the Woo, but still I was without the Woo for over one hour.
   
  Anyway I am with you about the Liquid Fire, they seem to have made this amp fool proof with no time limits on how long you have it on, as were the Woo you should turn off after 8 hours. Thanks for turning me on to the Liquid Fire before the price went up, I guess I got the last LF at the cheaper price.


----------



## 2359glenn

I would say if you have a 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier tube to use it in these amps this tube can handle this better
  and can handle a larger input capacitor 60uf. But I don't know what the sound change will be. The 5AR4 has
  a lower internal voltage drop then a 5U4. That will change B+ voltage making it higher changing the operating
  points in the output tubes. I don't know if this will make the sound better or worse you can only try one.
  They do have SS replacements for a 5U4s that can handle this with no problem.  But with my experience
  they sound like crap and they will substantially raise the B+ voltage by about 40 volts. Usually these are
  used in guitar amps.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Was actually looking at this tube combo for WA5, assuming you meant the EMLs.  How does it sound?  I'm guessing pretty awesome.


 


  Yes, my tubes are EML. I bought the WA5-LE with all parts and tubes upgrades. Right now I am running it with the combo and TS 6F8G BG/RP and Woo adapters. It sounds great! Really deep bass, wide soundstage a lot of texture in the midrange and very clean and detailed highs. I also like it with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT BB/CT.


----------



## Silent One

EML Glass ~
   
  I'm seven months in with the EML 5U4G Mesh plate. I sold the Sophia Princess to cover some of the expense. Will now begin looking for a quality backup rectifier at a decent price. Once found, I'll continue to make the EML Glass do what it do 'till it can't do it no mo'!


----------



## xinque

Still trying to pick out tubes for a WA5.  Will be my first Woo amp upgrading from a Schiit Lyr.  Hoping to be wowed again considering how big this thread has grown.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Will admit I'm a sucker for tube glow, is it true the 300Bs don't emit much?
   
  I'm pretty much set on the EML 5U4G mesh, still picking out the power and driver tubes.  Looks like my choices will be between the EML and Sophia Electric for the 300B, unless someone has another tube to recommend?  The Takatsuki looks interesting but seems hard to find at a good price outside of Japan.


----------



## PanamaRed

Bendix 6106. I haven't rolled one in my WA22 yet, but the damn thing is lovely in my Decware CSP2+ and SE84B.
   
  It's the chuck norris of rectifiers.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> EML Glass ~
> 
> I'm seven months in with the EML 5U4G Mesh plate. I sold the Sophia Princess to cover some of the expense. Will now begin looking for a quality backup rectifier at a decent price. Once found, I'll continue to make the EML Glass do what it do 'till it can't do it no mo'!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Bendix 6106. I haven't rolled one in my WA22 yet, but the damn thing is lovely in my Decware CSP2+ and SE84B.
> 
> It's the chuck norris of rectifiers.


 

 Bendix 6106, the original rec or rolled-in these two amps? If the latter, what did you have in prior?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Still trying to pick out tubes for a WA5.  Will be my first Woo amp upgrading from a Schiit Lyr.  Hoping to be wowed again considering how big this thread has grown.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes for my WA5LE there is next to no glow with my WE300B's
  btw, not only did I get the parts upgrade and Teflon sockets but I also got a Alps RK50 pot.
   
  I also hear really deep and solid bass, wide/ fairly deep/ good 3d like sound-stage/deep/3D like, very clean and detailed highs, the mids (low to high) are really where the magic happens because of the range of my mids. The mids seem to also clarify the highs and low blending them with the mids with no distortion, and that is also where the depth comes from.
  

 I am posting two pictures, one with my WE300B's and TSRP's (EML5U4G in PSU) the other shows the parts upgrade and the Alps RK50 pot. However the parts upgrade has changed, not quite as extensive and  different V-caps.
  On a side note, the WA5LE was having problems with tubes, jamato8 suggested to Jack what he felt Jack should change (as I understand this story). Anyway what you see in the picture in this post is what jamato8 suggested.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I have to say that the Alps RK50 pot looks its weight in gold. It is an elegant piece. I actually asked Jack to install it in my WA2 and he said that he couldn't use that pot because it is too big to fit in the WA2 chassis.
   
  I remember reading about how you obtained those Western Electric 300Bs. Do you still keep in contact with those guys?


----------



## xinque

What was the tube problem exactly, and did Jack end up changing the design in the current production?
   
  Somewhat worried about getting an amp with such expensive tubes after reading what happened to dannie01.  In the summer it's not uncommon for the power to go out and come back on when everyone's using their AC and the power grid can't handle it.  Am I supposed to be racing for the power switch when this happens and turn off the amp so it doesn't blow?  And then wait for the tubes to cool down again before turning it back on? 
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> On a side note, the WA5LE was having problems with tubes, jamato8 suggested to Jack what he felt Jack should change (as I understand this story). Anyway what you see in the picture in this post is what jamato8 suggested.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes the one without the reading is the bad one the other one is still good.  The ECC32s i suppose are still lighting up I hadn't gone back far enough to see what the problem with these were. I guess they just started to sound bad??
> Well this isn't as bad you just have to buy one EML and not two


 

 Thank you, Glenn.
  
   
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I would say if you have a 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier tube to use it in these amps this tube can handle this better
> and can handle a larger input capacitor 60uf. But I don't know what the sound change will be. The 5AR4 has
> a lower internal voltage drop then a 5U4. That will change B+ voltage making it higher changing the operating
> points in the output tubes. I don't know if this will make the sound better or worse you can only try one.
> ...


 

  And what about a 5Z3, I learn that the 5Z3 in same specification and the 5U4G can be replaced with adapter, is that correct?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Still trying to pick out tubes for a WA5.  Will be my first Woo amp upgrading from a Schiit Lyr.  Hoping to be wowed again considering how big this thread has grown.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Not considering the WE due to availability and price I would say the EML 300B Mesh or the EAT 300B for power tubes. The driver will depend on your taste of sound. I have been able to collect to some of what I consider good ones and with different flavors.
  Here is my collection: Mullard ECC32, Brimar CV1988 BG/BB, RCA 6922 RB, Sylvania 6SN7WGT BB/TC, Fivre 6SN7GT, TS 6SN7GT BG/RP, RCA 6SN7GT GG, KenRad 6SN7GT BG, TS 6F8G BG/RP & Reythreon 6F8G BG.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I would say if you have a 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier tube to use it in these amps this tube can handle this better
> and can handle a larger input capacitor 60uf. But I don't know what the sound change will be. The 5AR4 has
> a lower internal voltage drop then a 5U4. That will change B+ voltage making it higher changing the operating
> points in the output tubes. I don't know if this will make the sound better or worse you can only try one.
> ...


 


  I have a metal base Mullard GZ34 and it sound as good as the EML I have but the amp runs much hotter.  I have bring this up to Jack and did said it is fine and try to keep the listening session under 8 hours.


----------



## jc9394

Danny, try to get a pair of Mullard GZ37, they sounds really good and won't break your bank.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny, try to get a pair of Mullard GZ37, they sounds really good and won't break your bank.


 


 Thanks, John. Will search where's available.


----------



## dannie01

About the Mullard, found that available in brown base and black base and the price is almost the same. Any idea which one would sound better or they just the same sonically?
   
   


   
  EDIT. Or maybe I'm color blind, they look both brown base?


----------



## jc9394

they both looks brown to me.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thank you, Glenn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Yes the 5Z3 is identical to a 5U4 with a 4 prong base actually it is the predecessor of the 5U4.   You would need a adapter


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have a metal base Mullard GZ34 and it sound as good as the EML I have but the amp runs much hotter.  I have bring this up to Jack and did said it is fine and try to keep the listening session under 8 hours.


 


 The GZ34 raises the B+ voltage a little making the 6AS7s draw a little more current and the two 25 watt cathode resistors for these tubes are heat sinked to the
  case. with the higher voltage these resistors will dissipate a little more heat. This won't heart anything the capacitors in the amp are rated at 105 deg Centigrade.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> they both looks brown to me.


 

 Haha, I am really a color blind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes the 5Z3 is identical to a 5U4 with a 4 prong base actually it is the predecessor of the 5U4.   You would need a adapter


 


 Thanks Glenn, I will get a pair of Fivre 5Z3s locally and the seller is kind enough to give me apir of adapter free of charge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   
  Also, I will order these Mullard 5U4Gs to give them a try and compare how they sound with the Fivre.


----------



## john57

_The 5AR4/GZ34 is rated for a 250 mA. draw. The GZ37 is rated at 275 mA. into a cap. I/P filter and 350 mA. into a choke I/P filter. Also, the GZ37 data sheet says 4 muF. max. for a cap. I/P filter.

 The forward drop in a GZ37 is greater than that in a GZ34. So, the B+ rail voltage will be somewhat higher. Current production 5AR4s have improved significantly of late and that's what I'd use. _
____________________
  

_The 5R4 can deliver plenty of current too. 4 muF. is max. for that type too. Arc over at start up is NOT good.

 There are reports about the GZ37 sounding mediocre when used as a substitute for the GZ34. My hunch is that the tube is stressed, even if it does not arc over with a substantial filter cap.

 The data sheet I've seen was published by Chelmer Valve. _
   

____________________
  
  Eli D.
   
   
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/60100-gz37-substitution.html
   
  My vote is the 5AR4/GZ34 since I did find that the 5AR4 sound much better than the 5U4 types in my situation with a more clear and sharper sound.
  The Mullard that I have seen here have brown bases.


----------



## Clayton SF

I know the Chinese (Shuguang) and the Slovak Republic (JJ Electronic) currently produce the 5AR4. Are you aware of any others? Thanks.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





john57 said:


> _The 5AR4/GZ34 is rated for a 250 mA. draw. The GZ37 is rated at 275 mA. into a cap. I/P filter and 350 mA. into a choke I/P filter. Also, the GZ37 data sheet says 4 muF. max. for a cap. I/P filter.
> 
> The forward drop in a GZ37 is greater than that in a GZ34. So, the B+ rail voltage will be somewhat higher. Current production 5AR4s have improved significantly of late and that's what I'd use. _
> ____________________
> ...


 

 Thanks for the information, john57. Do you think this pair of 5R4 is good?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I know the Chinese (Shuguang) and the Slovak Republic (JJ Electronic) currently produce the 5AR4. Are you aware of any others? Thanks.


 


 Sovteck  5AR4  made in the Reflector factory in Russia


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the information, john57. Do you think this pair of 5R4 is good?


 

 Danny,
  You should try this Brimar. I have them for my WA5-LE and really like them.
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Brimar-5R4GY.html
   
  Also this Mullard GZ33
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mullard-GZ33-%7B47%7D-CV5745.html


----------



## john57

[size=12pt]My answer is no. I made a mistake dropping the A at first. The 5R4 tube is not the same as a 5AR4 tube. The 5R4 is like a 5U4 but designed to operate at higher voltages like 600V for transmitter tubes but that is not what you want. The 5AR4 has greater current capacity with less voltage sag which makes it a better choice in an amp. Also the 5AR4 is slower to warm up and gives the power tubes more time to warm up before all the high voltage is applied.  THe GZ33 might be a good substitute for a 5AR4 [/size]
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks for the information, john57. Do you think this pair of 5R4 is good?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> _The 5AR4/GZ34 is rated for a 250 mA. draw. The GZ37 is rated at 275 mA. into a cap. I/P filter and 350 mA. into a choke I/P filter. Also, the GZ37 data sheet says 4 muF. max. for a cap. I/P filter.
> 
> The forward drop in a GZ37 is greater than that in a GZ34. So, the B+ rail voltage will be somewhat higher. Current production 5AR4s have improved significantly of late and that's what I'd use. _
> ____________________
> ...


 


 Looking at tube specs the 5V3/5AU4 is the most powerful of these type tubes has a transientplate current of 6.6 amps. dam I have a couple of these
  and never tried one.
  John this tube might slightly beat the 3DG4


----------



## PanamaRed

Only two rectifiers i've tried in those Decware amps was the 6106 and a NOS RCA 5Y3G. I have quite a few other rectifiers to roll in there but I never felt compelled to.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Bendix 6106, the original rec or rolled-in these two amps? If the latter, what did you have in prior?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ I have to say that the Alps RK50 pot looks its weight in gold. It is an elegant piece. I actually asked Jack to install it in my WA2 and he said that he couldn't use that pot because it is too big to fit in the WA2 chassis.
> 
> I remember reading about how you obtained those Western Electric 300Bs. Do you still keep in contact with those guys?


 
  Yes the Alps RK50 is a big pot, Jack had to mill the bottom plate on my WA5LE amp to get it to fit, so part of the Alps is actually lower than the bottom plate.
  After reading about one of this threads members complaining about his stock pot getting very hot and almost locking up I thought that in a Amp like the WA5LE this pot would service me well. Anyway Jack had a few from a power buy still left in his inventory and gave me a good price on the Alps and labor.
   
  No I am sorry to say I don't, but all anyone would have to do is stop in there great museum down in Alabama, or good to there web site. http://alabamahistoricalradiosociety.org/
  
   


  Quote: 





xinque said:


> What was the tube problem exactly, and did Jack end up changing the design in the current production?
> 
> Somewhat worried about getting an amp with such expensive tubes after reading what happened to dannie01.  In the summer it's not uncommon for the power to go out and come back on when everyone's using their AC and the power grid can't handle it.  Am I supposed to be racing for the power switch when this happens and turn off the amp so it doesn't blow?  And then wait for the tubes to cool down again before turning it back on?


 
  Yes Jack did change the V-Caps and a few other components about a month before I got my WA5LE, and he also added at that time a pair of user adjustable alternators to the amp (nice addition). However Jack did change the parts upgrade about 5 months ago as I said in my last post.
  I am very very careful with my WA5LE because of the very rare WE300B's I have in it, and to use any other 300B's just doesn't cut it for me.
  In my case yes I would race over to my WA5LE and turn it off and leave it off until it cooled to room temp.
  Please don't misunderstand what I am saying, the WA5/LE is a great amp and probably is not a big profit amp for Jack because of the time it takes him to build them and to a lesser degree the components that gos into the WA5/LE. Anyway I think that is one of the reasons why Jack is coming out with his new Amp that I guess will be similar to the WA5/LE except for one thing the price!!
  Here is a picture with the Treasure in my WA5LE that Jack sold me. Note how close the drive tubes are to the power tubes, imo not good at all.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Danny,
> You should try this Brimar. I have them for my WA5-LE and really like them.
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Brimar-5R4GY.html
> 
> ...


 


 Wow, they look very nice, thanks Jose.
   


  Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=12pt]My answer is no. I made a mistake dropping the A at first. The 5R4 tube is not the same as a 5AR4 tube. The 5R4 is like a 5U4 but designed to operate at higher voltages like 600V for transmitter tubes but that is not what you want. The 5AR4 has greater current capacity with less voltage sag which makes it a better choice in an amp. Also the 5AR4 is slower to warm up and gives the power tubes more time to warm up before all the high voltage is applied.  THe GZ33 might be a good substitute for a 5AR4 [/size]


 
   
  Thanks for the information again, John.


----------



## dannie01

Some up-date pic of the WA5LE with Fivre 5Z3 with sapters, the tubes are now with only about 20 minutes, need more burn-in to open up but initial impression is very nice sounding.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Some up-date pic of the WA5LE with Fivre 5Z3 with sapters, the tubes are now with only about 20 minutes, need more burn-in to open up but initial impression is very nice sounding.


 

 Nice pictures. Thanks. Is that shop where you bought the tubes near you? You picked those up fast.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Nice pictures. Thanks. Is that shop where you bought the tubes near you? You picked those up fast.


 


 I bought them on a local forum and the seller took it to the subway station near my office today, you know, HK is a small city.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I bought them on a local forum and the seller took it to the subway station near my office today, you know, HK is a small city.


 
  Wow! HK is great. Tubes to Go! We Deliver!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Just an interesting tidbit I thought I'd drop here.  Whilst looking longingly at the WA22 product page at wooaudio.com I noticed the tube upgrade options changed.  The Treasures are no longer listed and in their place are greyglass RCA VT-231 NOS.  Listed at the same $280 the Treasures were at..... I'll let everybody form their own opinions on that part.  I was considering selling mine since I seem to really prefer the sylvania sound, but maybe they'll have better synergy in the WA22.
   
  I'm guessing there is a production shortage on the Treasures right now.  On a side note I've been wondering if Jack was going to offer their Psvane 6SN7-T as an option too or that is tied exclusively to grant fidelity.


----------



## xinque

Was wondering if anyone had an opinion on whether the WA5 parts upgrade is worth it.  Think I remember reading in a thread somewhere that the improvement would be less so than tube rolling, or outright switching to a headphone with a different signature.  Only have a T1 right now, and wondering if I'd be better off skimping the upgrade and buying an LCD2 instead.  Anyone have an opinion?
   
  Which brings me to my next question, for driving LCD2s would it make any difference plugging the headphone into the K1K port on a WA5 as opposed to the 1/4" on the WA5-LE?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just an interesting tidbit I thought I'd drop here.  Whilst looking longingly at the WA22 product page at wooaudio.com I noticed the tube upgrade options changed.  The Treasures are no longer listed and in their place are greyglass RCA VT-231 NOS.  Listed at the same $280 the Treasures were at..... I'll let everybody form their own opinions on that part.  I was considering selling mine since I seem to really prefer the sylvania sound, but maybe they'll have better synergy in the WA22.
> 
> I'm guessing there is a production shortage on the Treasures right now.  On a side note I've been wondering if Jack was going to offer their Psvane 6SN7-T as an option too or that is tied exclusively to grant fidelity.


 

 I saw that too. My guess is that Jack saw how cheap the Treasures are going for from other vendors, around $130 for a matched pair or $180 in the gift box so he decided to move on to something else to preserve his margin. I am not knocking him for doing so at all, as his primary business is amps after all and selling tubes is more of a courtesy. There does seem to be plenty of them around.
   
   
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Was wondering if anyone had an opinion on whether the WA5 parts upgrade is worth it.  Think I remember reading in a thread somewhere that the improvement would be less so than tube rolling, or outright switching to a headphone with a different signature.  Only have a T1 right now, and wondering if I'd be better off skimping the upgrade and buying an LCD2 instead.  Anyone have an opinion?
> 
> Which brings me to my next question, for driving LCD2s would it make any difference plugging the headphone into the K1K port on a WA5 as opposed to the 1/4" on the WA5-LE?


 

 Nice dilemma! If it was me I would get the parts upgrade, it's the only one left that involves the Blackgate caps which aren't even made any more. You can always get the LCD-2 later but this is your one shot at the parts upgrade.
   
   

   
  I don't have any actual experience with the WA5 but I do have experience with the headphones and I would say that the K1000 port makes the most sense for the lower efficiency HiFiMAN headphones and the K1000 (duh!), while the LCD-2 doesn't even demand as much power as the HD800 IME.


----------



## spagetka

I had a chance to listen to LCD2 on my WA5 and found out that LCD2 sounds like HD650 with bigger drivers. A lot of comments here recommend HE6.
   
  If you like the T1, instead of buying another headphones, you should spend the money on tubes/dampers/... 

  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Was wondering if anyone had an opinion on whether the WA5 parts upgrade is worth it.  Think I remember reading in a thread somewhere that the improvement would be less so than tube rolling, or outright switching to a headphone with a different signature.  Only have a T1 right now, and wondering if I'd be better off skimping the upgrade and buying an LCD2 instead.  Anyone have an opinion?
> 
> Which brings me to my next question, for driving LCD2s would it make any difference plugging the headphone into the K1K port on a WA5 as opposed to the 1/4" on the WA5-LE?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Was wondering if anyone had an opinion on whether the WA5 parts upgrade is worth it.  Think I remember reading in a thread somewhere that the improvement would be less so than tube rolling, or outright switching to a headphone with a different signature.  Only have a T1 right now, and wondering if I'd be better off skimping the upgrade and buying an LCD2 instead.  Anyone have an opinion?
> 
> Which brings me to my next question, for driving LCD2s would it make any difference plugging the headphone into the K1K port on a WA5 as opposed to the 1/4" on the WA5-LE?


 


   
   Yes, there is a difference in output power between the K1K output and either of the 1/4" jacks in either the WA5 or the WA5-LE. The K1K output has more power so it is more suitable for the HE-6 and LCD-2. The LCD-3 are more efficient than the HE-6 and can run find out of teh 1/4" but in my experience they sound even better with more power. I tried them driectly to the speaker tabs of my Threshold T1 and they sounded as a totally different headphones opening up even more.
   
  You can alwyas upgrade tubes or buy different headphones but when you order a new amplifier there is just one shot to get th eparts upgrade. I personally did not only the parts upgrade but also sent Jack Neotech OCC copper wire to use in my amp instead of his standard wire. My amp has all the upgrades with the exception of the RK50 pot and I am very happy with it.


----------



## dannie01

Tube experts, I need your advise on these Mullard GZ34 below, it's a double o getter fat/ black base, are they good for the WA5LE?. Compare with Mullard GZ34 brown base,Mullard GZ33/CV5745 (with pic below) and 5AR4, which one will sound better with WA5LE, thanks a lot for your input.
   
  Actually, I'm dilemma in these two.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *musicman59* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *I tried them driectly to the speaker tabs of my Threshold T1 and they sounded as a totally different headphones opening up even more.*


 

 Jose, I read somewhere in this thread claimed that due to the output impedance is different, it is too danger to connect the LCD-2 or a HE-6 with a normal amp's speaker output. In what way you connect the headphone with your phones to the Threshold?


----------



## Skylab

Grey-glass RCA VT-231 are nice tubes, but even NOS $280/pair is very high IMO.


----------



## jc9394

Danny, I may be wrong but here is what my impression on GZ34/7

GZ37>metal base GZ34>fat black base GZ34>black base GZ34>brown base GZ34.

I just won a pair of GZ37 from fleabay, I will let you know if my impression changes between metal base GZ34 and GZ37.


----------



## john57

I got my Grey-glass RCA VT-231  in Denver at a reasonable price and it was made in April of 1945 in original box and it was one of the most mellow sounding 6SN7 tubes I own

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Grey-glass RCA VT-231 are nice tubes, but even NOS $280/pair is very high IMO.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Jose, I read somewhere in this thread claimed that due to the output impedance is different, it is too danger to connect the LCD-2 or a HE-6 with a normal amp's speaker output. In what way you connect the headphone with your phones to the Threshold?


 


   Danny,
  That applies to tube amplifiers only. In the case of Solid State you have no problem. Th emost you can have with SS amps is potentially some hum due to the impedance mismatch but in my case it is death quiet. if your SS amp is about 100 watts or higher then it ir recommended to use an adapter like Head-Direct sells for protection of the headphones. In my case the T50 is SS class A with 50 watts per channel and a very rubust power supply so I just go directly from the speaker tabs to the headphones and it sounds incredibly nice.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Grey-glass RCA VT-231 are nice tubes, but even NOS $280/pair is very high IMO.


 


   
   I agree. I think I paid $180 for my pair.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Danny,
> That applies to tube amplifiers only. In the case of Solid State you have no problem. Th emost you can have with SS amps is potentially some hum due to the impedance mismatch but in my case it is death quiet. if your SS amp is about 100 watts or higher then it ir recommended to use an adapter like Head-Direct sells for protection of the headphones. In my case the T50 is SS class A with 50 watts per channel and a very rubust power supply so I just go directly from the speaker tabs to the headphones and it sounds incredibly nice.


 


 I see, thanks Jose. I have an old Naim cmbo, NAC42.5 and NAP110 for my humble speaker rig, will give them a try.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Just got a pair of Sylvania 7236 for my WA22. Very excited about it!!!
  How many hours before optimum performance.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> Just got a pair of Sylvania 7236 for my WA22. Very excited about it!!!
> How many hours before optimum performance.


 

 Based on other feedback, 200 hours seems to be the number (give or take).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I saw that too. My guess is that Jack saw how cheap the Treasures are going for from other vendors, around $130 for a matched pair or $180 in the gift box so he decided to move on to something else to preserve his margin. I am not knocking him for doing so at all, as his primary business is amps after all and selling tubes is more of a courtesy. There does seem to be plenty of them around.


 
   


  
  I got an email from Jack about this (I asked him why) and his answer was that the Shugang factory was having issues building the Treasures, so his supply was cut off temporarily. He will have them back up as an upgrade option what the supply chain opens up again. As well, he mentioned he was able to source a good supply of the RCA V-231 tubes as an alternative option.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny, I may be wrong but here is what my impression on GZ34/7
> 
> GZ37>metal base GZ34>fat black base GZ34>black base GZ34>brown base GZ34.
> 
> I just won a pair of GZ37 from fleabay, I will let you know if my impression changes between metal base GZ34 and GZ37.


 
   
  Sure you're right there about the brown base?  Unless I'm mistaken, all the brown base (larger base like the large black base) are made in holland by philips and a transitional model away from the metal base, very similar construction-wise and soundwise to the metal base.  The small black base mullards are supposed to be the lowest on the totem pole sonically.


----------



## jc9394

That is why I said I may be wrong. All GZ34 I had are used except the metal based one is NOS.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Heh, so for once I actually got a good deal on something.....  I got my greyglass VT-231s for just under $50 bucks last year.  For whatever reason mine sound harsh up top, which very very few people agree with.  So either it is my tubes or they just have poor synergy with my amp/headphone combo.  That, and there is just too much extra in some places with their tone.  A very romantic sound and occasionally even beautiful, but definitely not what I'd call faithful to the recording.
   
  On the subject of Mullard tubes, I've been pondering whether to grab a GZ33 as a quality backup tube myself.  One person on diyaudio described them as "impossible to destroy through normal means" which I take to mean it is a very hearty tube and a good choice for an EML backup.  The GZ37 seems to be much more popular, but the few posts I've found on the GZ33 universally state it is the better of the two tubes which seems odd to me.  Perhaps it is just a question of availability, since the GZ33 seems more rare. 
   
  There is also the High Wycombe GZ37 Fat Bottle which is supposed to be one of the finest NOS rectifiers there is.  They actually cost more than an EML tube does.  The tube bears a strong resemblance to my Brimar 5R4GY.


----------



## Sesam

Maybe I'm just unlucky but most of the 7236 tubes I have acquired have either microphonics, buzzing or humming. I almost started to believe something was wrong with my WA22, until I switched back to 6080 tubes. Out of 4 Tung-Sol 7236 tubes, 1 was perfect, and 10 Sylvania 7236, and only 6 of them were flawless (and these were from reputable sellers, tested and matched). Though it appears that the buzzing and humming is more or less noticeable depending on the drivers used.


----------



## nututubes

xcalibur255 said:


> On the subject of Mullard tubes, I've been pondering whether to grab a GZ33 as a quality backup tube myself.  One person on diyaudio described them as "impossible to destroy through normal means" which I take to mean it is a very hearty tube and a good choice for an EML backup.  The GZ37 seems to be much more popular, but the few posts I've found on the GZ33 universally state it is the better of the two tubes which seems odd to me.  Perhaps it is just a question of availability, since the GZ33 seems more rare.
> 
> There is also the High Wycombe GZ37 Fat Bottle which is supposed to be one of the finest NOS rectifiers there is.  They actually cost more than an EML tube does.  The tube bears a strong resemblance to my Brimar 5R4GY.




I have also been following the ongoing rectifier posts.
I just ordered a GZ33 from Upscale Audio and a Sophia Princess 274b from Jack.
I have one EML 5u4g in my amp right now, and one spare. I also have two GZ37s which sound good also.
I'm looking forward to auditioning the GZ 33 & 274b.
High Wycombe.....forgot about that one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I have also been following the ongoing rectifier posts.
> I just ordered a GZ33 from Upscale Audio and a Sophia Princess 274b from Jack.
> I have one EML 5u4g in my amp right now, and one spare. I also have two GZ37s which sound good also.
> I'm looking forward to auditioning the GZ 33 & 274b.
> High Wycombe.....forgot about that one.


 

 I too, am in search for a back Rec... or straight up replacement if it sounds great! Based on Xcalibur25's post and your own, the GZ33 seems promising. What kind of $$$'s do I need to throw out? Looking forward to your impressions, especially since you can compare/contrast the 33 against the 37.


----------



## rayk

Has there been a comparison between the Woo 6 and the Bottlehead S.E.X.? Looking for something to amp both HD600 and DT1350.


----------



## Icenine2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CV181-Gift-packing-ShuGuang-TREASURES-tube-matched-pair-/220741875114?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33653db5aa#ht_927wt_1163

  Link for Shuguang Treasures.  That is just one.  There are many over on eBay.  I bought mine when I still had the WA22 before I got the Cavalli Liquid Fire.  I bought mine from this Hong Kong dealer and they were warrantied, got here quickly and I actually saved money buying them from there.  Great service.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


>


 
   


  
  I got an email from Jack about this (I asked him why) and his answer was that the Shugang factory was having issues building the Treasures, so his supply was cut off temporarily. He will have them back up as an upgrade option what the supply chain opens up again. As well, he mentioned he was able to source a good supply of the RCA V-231 tubes as an alternative option.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny, I may be wrong but here is what my impression on GZ34/7
> 
> GZ37>metal base GZ34>fat black base GZ34>black base GZ34>brown base GZ34.
> 
> I just won a pair of GZ37 from fleabay, I will let you know if my impression changes between metal base GZ34 and GZ37.


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> On the subject of Mullard tubes, I've been pondering whether to grab a GZ33 as a quality backup tube myself.  One person on diyaudio described them as "impossible to destroy through normal means" which I take to mean it is a very hearty tube and a good choice for an EML backup.  The GZ37 seems to be much more popular, but the few posts I've found on the GZ33 universally state it is the better of the two tubes which seems odd to me.  Perhaps it is just a question of availability, since the GZ33 seems more rare.
> 
> There is also the High Wycombe GZ37 Fat Bottle which is supposed to be one of the finest NOS rectifiers there is.  They actually cost more than an EML tube does.  The tube bears a strong resemblance to my Brimar 5R4GY.


 
   
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I have also been following the ongoing rectifier posts.
> I just ordered a GZ33 from Upscale Audio and a Sophia Princess 274b from Jack.
> I have one EML 5u4g in my amp right now, and one spare. I also have two GZ37s which sound good also.
> I'm looking forward to auditioning the GZ 33 & 274b.
> High Wycombe.....forgot about that one.


 
   
  Look forward for your impression and thanks for the input, John. I'm lost on all these Mullard, GZ34 fat/ black base, GZ33, GZ37....................................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But for price wise, the selling price of Mullard GZ34 fat/ black base are normally higher than GZ33/37, that is interesting.
   
  You guys are rich on tubes rolling and on the other hand we're being insane on tubes with our Woo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
   
  PS. I should have keep the WA22 instead of getting the WA5LE, at least I need only 1 rectifier and could some $ for other power or driver tubes. Ordering 2 rectifier each time is a nightmare.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

question to all you woo owners.
   
  how good is the WA3 compared to the other more expensive amps like the WA6/WA22/WA5?? (upgrades vs stock taken into account). i know theres a comparison chart on the main website, but it still doesnt tell me much
   
  i am planning on buying a woo amp, but don't know which one is best. i would be using a single ended output (i heard from a few people wa22 sucks on single ended and only good on balanced). i currently have hd 650s and grado 325s and am planning to buy some LCD-2 and hd800s or t1s but worry the WA3 is too low end or too weak for the more expensive cans.
   
  i will connect the amp to a rega DAC i plan on purchasing as well. i prefer warm sounds but enjoy the detail from bright and revealing amps/dacs
   
   
  thanks
   
   
  -the dubstep girl


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I too, am in search for a back Rec... or straight up replacement if it sounds great! Based on Xcalibur25's post and your own, the GZ33 seems promising. What kind of $$$'s do I need to throw out? Looking forward to your impressions, especially since you can compare/contrast the 33 against the 37.


 
  I forget whether or not you've tried the Brimar 5R4 yet?  If not I would give it a spin first since it's cheaper.  I have major respect for this tube.  Prefer it over the Tung Sol 5U4G by a good margin personally.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> question to all you woo owners.
> 
> how good is the WA3 compared to the other more expensive amps like the WA6/WA22/WA5?? (upgrades vs stock taken into account). i know theres a comparison chart on the main website, but it still doesnt tell me much
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not the best person to answer WA22 questions, so I'm sure others will chime in....... but I'd hardly say it 'sucks' when used single ended.  You are just not tapping the whole potential of the amp with that output.  Even single ended it is generally agreed that it performs above the WA6 and WA6SE as it should given its price.
   
  Skylab has a good review of the WA3 which you can find in his reviews, or attached to one of his other posts like his amp raking chart or comparison of 6AS7 based amps.


----------



## xinque

Care to elaborate on the different flavors of driver tubes?  Looks like the Tung-Sol is the choice tube here, just need to find a vendor now (hopefully won't have to ebay for it).  Thanks !
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Not considering the WE due to availability and price I would say the EML 300B Mesh or the EAT 300B for power tubes. The driver will depend on your taste of sound. I have been able to collect to some of what I consider good ones and with different flavors.
> Here is my collection: Mullard ECC32, Brimar CV1988 BG/BB, RCA 6922 RB, Sylvania 6SN7WGT BB/TC, Fivre 6SN7GT, TS 6SN7GT BG/RP, RCA 6SN7GT GG, KenRad 6SN7GT BG, TS 6F8G BG/RP & Reythreon 6F8G BG.


----------



## Spareribs

Holy crap this is a long thread! Yes we love tube amps!


----------



## shipsupt

I'm only getting my first taste of the Tung Sol 5U4G tonight, but from initial impressions I'd agree with this impression, the Brimar 5R4 stands out as better to my ears than the Tung Sol.  So far the TS seems to lack overall presence when compared.  That said, I found a couple at great prices, so it is a good bargain performer.
   
  I should note that  as I'm trying some Raytheon 6EW7's for the first time as well... so that's certainly going to have an effect.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I forget whether or not you've tried the Brimar 5R4 yet?  If not I would give it a spin first since it's cheaper.  I have major respect for this tube.  Prefer it over the Tung Sol 5U4G by a good margin personally.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I forget whether or not you've tried the Brimar 5R4 yet?  If not I would give it a spin first since it's cheaper.  I have major respect for this tube.  Prefer it over the Tung Sol 5U4G by a good margin personally.


 

  
  Thanks Xcalibur255. I nearly forgot about the recent discussions among y'all regarding the rectifier. As Spareribs just mentioned, this really IS a long thread, but "Search" makes it manageable. I never have trouble finding posts; discussions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> question to all you woo owners.
> 
> how good is the WA3 compared to the other more expensive amps like the WA6/WA22/WA5?? (upgrades vs stock taken into account). i know theres a comparison chart on the main website, but it still doesnt tell me much
> 
> ...


 


  First and foremost, pending your Woo Audio amp purchase, welcome to the 'Unite' thread. Your comment about not knowing which one is best, in my view should be treated as which Woo is best for you. The Rega I hear is certainly a fine DAC; the respective cans you mention as well. Once you decide which Woo, you could then tailor the tubes to your warmth and desire.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I'm only getting my first taste of the Tung Sol 5U4G tonight, but from initial impressions I'd agree with this impression, the Brimar 5R4 stands out as better to my ears than the Tung Sol.  So far the TS seems to lack overall presence when compared.  That said, I found a couple at great prices, so it is a good bargain performer.
> 
> I should note that  as I'm trying some Raytheon 6EW7's for the first time as well... so that's certainly going to have an effect.


 

 I found the Brimar 5R4 and the Raytheon 6EW7 to have amazingly good synergy together.  Those two tubes sound like they were made for each other, and represent the only non-6SN7 tube combo I really enjoy using in the amp these days.  My Raytheons are Japanese made though...... no idea how common that was.


----------



## Silent One

Now that the Brimar 5R4 has re-emerged as a solid back up; replacement for the EML Glass, I'm feelin' better. Thursday is the last day of summer - think I'll push the 5U4G Mesh with hours of vintage Sly & The Family Stone well into the night!


----------



## Silent One

IEC Grip ~
   
  Do any of you find the Male IEC connector in the rear of your Woo Audio amps to be loose fitting with most power cables used/tried? (I know this will come down to brand/type/style of cable used - female end). If yes, how did you go about securing the grip (safely, mind you)?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> IEC Grip ~
> 
> Do any of you find the Male IEC connector in the rear of your Woo Audio amps to be loose fitting with most power cables used/tried? (I know this will come down to brand/type/style of cable used - female end). If yes, how did you go about securing the grip (safely, mind you)?


 


 I don't have this problem but I would recommend to swap with this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
Furutech IEC connector.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I don't have this problem but I would recommend to swap with this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I currently have Furutech 24k gold female connector on the end of my Wireworld Electra 5 (squared) power cable. Are you suggesting maybe I should swap in a proper mate from Furutech as well for the Woo? Any soldering involved or is it plug & play? Have not peered into my amp under the cover...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What kind of $$$'s do I need to throw out?


 

 I just paid $95 + shipping for the Mullard GZ33 / CV5745 with Upscale Audio.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I just paid $95 + shipping for the Mullard GZ33 / CV5745 with Upscale Audio.


 

_Now that's a price I can easily live with! _BIG thanks!!!


----------



## Icenine2

When I had my WA22 that was an issue.  I ended up using a bit of plumbers tape to wrap around the female and then it was made snug.  I also sawed off about 1/16" off the end of the Shunyata cable.  It is clear and has no bearing on performance.  Then if fit perfectly.  I'd have to bet the Furutech would be nice though.  Possibly it's a bit deeper too which would make it seat better.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> IEC Grip ~
> 
> Do any of you find the Male IEC connector in the rear of your Woo Audio amps to be loose fitting with most power cables used/tried? (I know this will come down to brand/type/style of cable used - female end). If yes, how did you go about securing the grip (safely, mind you)?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> When I had my WA22 that was an issue.  I ended up using a bit of plumbers tape to wrap around the female and then it was made snug.  I also sawed off about 1/16" off the end of the Shunyata cable.  It is clear and has no bearing on performance.  Then if fit perfectly.  I'd have to bet the Furutech would be nice though.  Possibly it's a bit deeper too which would make it seat better.


 

  Put aside the Furutech, wrap the plug with plumber tape is a nice treat for those who have this problem and doesn't want to swap the connector.


----------



## shipsupt

xcalibur255 said:


> I found the Brimar 5R4 and the Raytheon 6EW7 to have amazingly good synergy together.  Those two tubes sound like they were made for each other, and represent the only non-6SN7 tube combo I really enjoy using in the amp these days.  My Raytheons are Japanese made though...... no idea how common that was.




Thanks for the tip, I will definitely give that combo a try. I also want to roll in the Tung Sol 5u4gb to see if I hear a difference. I'll examine the taut eons to see if they are Japanese as well.


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I found the Brimar 5R4 and the Raytheon 6EW7 to have amazingly good synergy together.  Those two tubes sound like they were made for each other, and represent the only non-6SN7 tube combo I really enjoy using in the amp these days.  My Raytheons are Japanese made though...... no idea how common that was.


 
  Totally agreed, Brimar 5r4 is a fine rectifier.  To my system and ear, I prefer to match the Brimar to RCA 6de7 (shielded).  I find that the RCA adds tightness to the bottom without loosing the smoothness of the Brimar.  It also matches very well with Sylvania 6fd7 fat bottle.  With this combo, you lose the bass control but gain wider soundstage.
  How do you find out if the Raytheon 6ew7 is made in Japan or not?  I didn't like the sound of the 6ew7.  I find it to thin sounding.


----------



## shipsupt

I just checked my Raytheon's and they are marked "Made in Japan" right on the glass.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Danny,
> That applies to tube amplifiers only. In the case of Solid State you have no problem. Th emost you can have with SS amps is potentially some hum due to the impedance mismatch but in my case it is death quiet. if your SS amp is about 100 watts or higher then it ir recommended to use an adapter like Head-Direct sells for protection of the headphones. In my case the T50 is SS class A with 50 watts per channel and a very rubust power supply so I just go directly from the speaker tabs to the headphones and it sounds incredibly nice.


 

 Just make an extension cable from the power amp with a 4-pin XLR plug to drive the LCD-2 tonight. But I think an adapter with resistors is need for the LCD-2 with this connection because the volume is way too loud for just a bit dial of the pot.
   
  I agree with Jose that the sound is incredibly nice, unexpectedly nice even with this kind of cheapy power amp, no wonder how the LCD-2 will sounds with a class A 50w per channel power amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the background is dead silent, no hum at all.


----------



## dannie01

I am about to order a pair of Mullard GZ33/7 from Upscale Audio and asked for a matched pair. And the answer just received is- *"We do not match rectifier tubes, as there it is not necessary.  We test them to make sure they are new and free of shorts."*
   
  Is it really not necessary to match rectifier tubes, I doubt. Anyone can advise on that?


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Just make an extension cable from the power amp with a 4-pin XLR plug to drive the LCD-2 tonight. But I think an adapter with resistors is need for the LCD-2 with this connection because the volume is way too loud for just a bit dial of the pot.
> 
> I agree with Jose that the sound is incredibly nice, unexpectedly nice even with this kind of cheapy power amp, no wonder how the LCD-2 will sounds with a class A 50w per channel power amp.
> 
> ...




Nice, I need to make one and try it on my vintage Marantz receiver


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Totally agreed, Brimar 5r4 is a fine rectifier.  To my system and ear, I prefer to match the Brimar to RCA 6de7 (shielded).  I find that the RCA adds tightness to the bottom without loosing the smoothness of the Brimar.  It also matches very well with Sylvania 6fd7 fat bottle.  With this combo, you lose the bass control but gain wider soundstage.
> How do you find out if the Raytheon 6ew7 is made in Japan or not?  I didn't like the sound of the 6ew7.  I find it to thin sounding.


 

 As shipsupt mentiond it is printed right on the glass in grey print.  These are very airy sounding, which some people might take as being thin, but I wouldn't describe them that way.  There is plenty of body to the sound, it is just cast across a wider soundstage than you usually hear from the 6DE7 family of tubes.  More importantly the two major complaints about 6EW7 in general, slowness of rhythm and weak bass, are also not an issue to my ears.  I was quite surprised at how dynamic they could sound, and had plenty of bass for my needs.  I thinking this is unique to their Japanese origins, since tubes from that country are known for having lots of bass.  In the 6EW7 it just results in normal bass.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]My old School tube store in Denver do not test for balanced sections on rectifier tubes since many tube tubes testers can not evaluate plate sections when testing a filament-type rectifier tube. It is more important how the rectifier tube perform as a whole.  A rectifier tube does not provide gain nor does the audio signal pass through a rectifier tube. The place where I buy my rectifier tubes does a full test on pre-amp tubes and write what readings are but when it comes with rectifier tubes they test for good diode performance and no gas or shorts. Another reason that Upscale Audio may not match rectifier tubes is that they do not want users coming back and say the sections do not match when there is nothing wrong with the tube. Just the shortcomings of the user tube tester.   [/size]
   
  [size=medium]http://tubesound.com/2010/08/25/testing-a-balanced-rectifier-on-a-tube-tester/#more-902 [/size]

  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I am about to order a pair of Mullard GZ33/7 from Upscale Audio and asked for a matched pair. And the answer just received is- *"We do not match rectifier tubes, as there it is not necessary.  We test them to make sure they are new and free of shorts."*
> 
> Is it really not necessary to match rectifier tubes, I doubt. Anyone can advise on that?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just make an extension cable from the power amp with a 4-pin XLR plug to drive the LCD-2 tonight. But I think an adapter with resistors is need for the LCD-2 with this connection because the volume is way too loud for just a bit dial of the pot.
> 
> I agree with Jose that the sound is incredibly nice, unexpectedly nice even with this kind of cheapy power amp, no wonder how the LCD-2 will sounds with a class A 50w per channel power amp.
> 
> ...


 

 I am glad you liked th esound Danny. Yes the LCD-2 are more effcient than the HE-6 and can support up tp 15 watts in 50 ohms but due to the higher efficency you may need to attenuate the signal with a resistor. If you amplifier is 100 watts you are putting around 17 to 18 watts and the LCD-3 efficiency is 91db compared to 83.5 of the HE-6. 7.5db is over 4 times the power.


----------



## shipsupt

After listening last night to them for some time the bass started to impress me.  It wasn't the magnitude or the impact of the low end, but the speed and detail of bass that really struck me.  I didn't find the low end presentation slow at all, in fact the attack and decay of the very low side were pretty quick and distinct.  I'm enjoying discovering these tubes, and I'm looking forward to giving them some more time and rolling in the Brimar too.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> As shipsupt mentiond it is printed right on the glass in grey print.  These are very airy sounding, which some people might take as being thin, but I wouldn't describe them that way.  There is plenty of body to the sound, it is just cast across a wider soundstage than you usually hear from the 6DE7 family of tubes.  More importantly the two major complaints about 6EW7 in general, slowness of rhythm and weak bass, are also not an issue to my ears.  I was quite surprised at how dynamic they could sound, and had plenty of bass for my needs.  I thinking this is unique to their Japanese origins, since tubes from that country are known for having lots of bass.  In the 6EW7 it just results in normal bass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Put aside the Furutech, wrap the plug with plumber tape is a nice treat for those who have this problem and doesn't want to swap the connector.


 

 Can you or someone here tell me if the Fused IEC Inlet inside the Woo has soldered leads connected or prongs that slide on?


----------



## jc9394

My WA22 is soldered.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I am about to order a pair of Mullard GZ33/7 from Upscale Audio and asked for a matched pair. And the answer just received is- *"We do not match rectifier tubes, as there it is not necessary.  We test them to make sure they are new and free of shorts."*
> 
> Is it really not necessary to match rectifier tubes, I doubt. Anyone can advise on that?


 

 A GZ33 or GZ34/5AR4 should be able to be checked for matched sections because they are indirect heated. but john57 is correct that a regular 5U4 direct heated cathode
  can't be tested for match. If you read the link he posted it will explain why it only can be done on certain testers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> My WA22 is soldered.


 

 Thanks, you were of great help jc9394. I'm not up for soldering (lack the means). So, I'll bust out the black electrical tape for now...


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

Is there any consensus as to which Woo Audio amp has better synergy with the HD650s that's under $1500?  Obviously this is pretty much between the WA2 and WA6-SE, but I'm having the most difficult decision choosing between the two.


----------



## xinque

Trying to pick out 6SN7 driver tubes for a WA5, anyone familiar with these two tubes and how they sound?  A bit overwhelming how many different makes on a tube type by one manufacturer there are.  Trying to avoid ebay and this seemed like a reputable site (by reputable I mean it's not designed like crap):
   
  1949 Sylvania 6SN7GT, black plate, bottom getter:
http://tctubes.com/sylvania-6sn7gt-bottom-getter-matched-pair.aspx
   
  1950's Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, black plate, tall bottle:
http://tctubes.com/Tung-Sol-6SN7GTB-tall-bottle-matched-pair.aspx
   
  Also, could use some guidance on typical price range for 6SN7 tubes - dunno if this vendor is overpriced or not, am flexible.  Anyone ever deal with this vendor or could suggest another?  Thanks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Is there any consensus as to which Woo Audio amp has better synergy with the HD650s that's under $1500?  Obviously this is pretty much between the WA2 and WA6-SE, but I'm having the most difficult decision choosing between the two.


 

 Knowing the genres that dominate your listening experiences and the sound you're trying to achieve with this combo could prove helpful.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *john57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [size=medium]My old School tube store in Denver do not test for balanced sections on rectifier tubes since many tube tubes testers can not evaluate plate sections when testing a filament-type rectifier tube. It is more important how the rectifier tube perform as a whole.  A rectifier tube does not provide gain nor does the audio signal pass through a rectifier tube. The place where I buy my rectifier tubes does a full test on pre-amp tubes and write what readings are but when it comes with rectifier tubes they test for good diode performance and no gas or shorts. Another reason that Upscale Audio may not match rectifier tubes is that they do not want users coming back and say the sections do not match when there is nothing wrong with the tube. Just the shortcomings of the user tube tester.   [/size]
> 
> [size=medium]http://tubesound.com/2010/08/25/testing-a-balanced-rectifier-on-a-tube-tester/#more-902 [/size]


 
   
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> A GZ33 or GZ34/5AR4 should be able to be checked for matched sections because they are indirect heated. but john57 is correct that a regular 5U4 direct heated cathode
> can't be tested for match. If you read the link he posted it will explain why it only can be done on certain testers.


 


 Thanks for the clarification, John and Glenn. I make it clear with the information now.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am glad you liked th esound Danny. Yes the LCD-2 are more effcient than the HE-6 and can support up tp 15 watts in 50 ohms but due to the higher efficency you may need to attenuate the signal with a resistor. If you amplifier is 100 watts you are putting around 17 to 18 watts and the LCD-3 efficiency is 91db compared to 83.5 of the HE-6. 7.5db is over 4 times the power.


 


 Yup, I need to put some resistors on the connection to match the volume output with the LCD-2, thanks Jose.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, you were of great help jc9394. I'm not up for soldering (lack the means). So, I'll bust out the black electrical tape for now...


 


 My WA5LE is soldered, too. For the Furutech plug, you can use the one with screw connection type for ease.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> My WA5LE is soldered, too. For the Furutech plug, you can use the one with screw connection type for ease.


 

 The female Furutech gold connector is HUGE. I'm going to attempt to measure the depth of the stock inlet on the Woo and then get the depth of the Furutech inlet. If the Furutech is indeed deeper, I think I'll make it happen! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I initially propped up the connector with cardboard but it felt hokey; no longer felt safe.


----------



## jc9394

Danny, did you see this 300B?
   
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/9609046@N06/sets/72157627522164719/show/
   
  Am I evil?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ You are the evil incarnate and I thank you for it! By the way, nice pix of the 300B.


----------



## jc9394

Since I'm at Sin City now, I have to be evil...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I currently have Furutech 24k gold female connector on the end of my Wireworld Electra 5 (squared) power cable. Are you suggesting maybe I should swap in a proper mate from Furutech as well for the Woo? Any soldering involved or is it plug & play? Have not peered into my amp under the cover...


 

 try wrapping it in electrical tape....


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny, did you see this 300B?
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/9609046@N06/sets/72157627522164719/show/
> 
> Am I evil?


 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ You are the evil incarnate and I thank you for it! By the way, nice pix of the 300B.


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Since I'm at Sin City now, I have to be evil...


 


 Yes, you are, absolutely, no doubt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I agree with Clayton, the pics are very nice.
   
  Below is the specification translated in English of this tube in case some one is interested. And their WEBSITE. 
   
  I am an EVIL, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
       Now bring back craftsmanship! ! (300B tube amplifier output)  Get masters at technology, fans longing revived the 300B tube. 
 Recall that our figure of 40 years, we have produced. 
 Revival of domestic 300B is currently made ​​in China or Russian, etc. by Dearimashi is 35 year absence. 
 Audio has been re-tube amp enthusiasts across the tube can move from semiconductors. 
 Light shining through a glass tube tube here and now, will deliver the luxury of sound adult. 
 Please enjoy a taste of chestnuts Anputsu゛.
   
   


 
 Feature One MADE IN JAPAN Only one company's production in Japan Two Release date SALE　 Three Price / 98,000 yen pair (plus tax) Four Sales channels Wholesale specialty audio shops
   

 Spec   Type ST type vacuum tube Name TA-300B Type Direct thermal triode Filament voltage 5V Plate voltage 450V (max) Plate current 100mA (Max) Plate loss 40W (less)


----------



## dannie01

Hey John, did you receive the Mullard GZ37?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey John, did you receive the Mullard GZ37?


 
   
  Not yet Danny, it should get here Friday 9/23. I did get the Sophia 274B in last night for about an hour. I used it with the TS 6F8G with the new Woo adapters, and TS 7236. The Princess looks and sounds very nice.
   
  Did you ever get your ECC32s on a tube tester? Mine, yours and Mikes came from the same guy...it's a shame this happened to you. Mine are still great on a WA22 with the EML 5U4G and TS 7236, my best/favorite combo so far.
   
  EDIT: I just realized that you were talking to jc about the GZ37, not me. I just ordered some GZ33.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Knowing the genres that dominate your listening experiences and the sound you're trying to achieve with this combo could prove helpful.


 


 Oops, sorry.  I traditionally listen mostly to soundtrack and classical.  I guess I'm a little confused with what you mean by "sound I'm trying to achieve", a little clarification please?


----------



## musicman59

Look what I found about those 300B.... $1,800 a pair here in the USA.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really would need to listen to a pair to make an investment like that.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87830.0
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/300B_3/1.html


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Not yet Danny, it should get here Friday 9/23. I did get the Sophia 274B in last night for about an hour. I used it with the TS 6F8G with the new Woo adapters, and TS 7236. The Princess looks and sounds very nice.


 

 Great, that's a very nice combo. And I can't wait for jc and your's comment on the GZ37, I pull the trigger for a pair this morning on eBay and assume will arrive next week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Did you ever get your ECC32s on a tube tester? Mine, yours and Mikes came from the same guy...it's a shame this happened to you. Mine are still great on a WA22 with the EML 5U4G and TS 7236, my best/favorite combo so far.


 

 Not yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , hope Mike's and your's can last what suppose they can be.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Look what I found about those 300B.... $1,800 a pair here in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 US1,800 a pair is crazy for originally cost JPY98,000 in Japan. And I do really hate that kind of business operation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*I was emailed by them telling me the USD price per pair was $1800.00 and when
 I told them what to do with them.....he said they bought all next years production so they could ram it in without grease.....oh hyperinflation is here and the $ is squat.*


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Hey John, did you receive the Mullard GZ37?




Not yet, it will be a while since it shipped snail mail from euro.


Off topic, I had fun with Ferrari 458 yesterday. Full speed on the track, highly recommended if you ever make it over this side of the earth.

http://www.exoticsracing.com/Ferrari/ferrari-driving-experience_1.htm


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not yet, it will be a while since it shipped snail mail from euro.
> 
> 
> Off topic, I had fun with Ferrari 458 yesterday. Full speed on the track, highly recommended if you ever make it over this side of the earth.
> ...


 
   
  Feedback to a off topic's topic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  What an exciting experience, John. US399 driving on the track  for 5 laps is a steal for the cost of a Ferrari 458. BTW, any insurance covered? What if ........................................you'll lost every unit of your rig.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Feedback to a off topic's topic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The best experience I ever have in Vegas, this is the best trip here period.  I did a 10 laps, which is a full racing against the other users.  It is fully insured included in the price unless you are in full intend to crash the car.  It includes a 30 minutes video instruction on how to drive, braking, corning, and the right way to race, especially the best driving line.  After that, a 2 demo laps on a Cayene GTS on when to brake and corner.  After all that, the fun begins.  It is not as easy as I imaged, it is a very hard work out to keep up with the speed. 
  
  EDIT. I called couple times before gave them my CC for reservation.  No string attached, everything is included in the price.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Oops, sorry.  I traditionally listen mostly to soundtrack and classical.  I guess I'm a little confused with what you mean by "sound I'm trying to achieve", a little clarification please?


 


  And I forgot to ask you what source are you/will you be using? This could help you decide between the two amps once you learn more about the two amps characteristics. By the sound you are trying to achieve (goal) do you like your system to sound warm, lush, dreamy, musical, revealing, dynamic, and so on. There's a stack of impressions here (search function) between the two amps with HD600/650 cans.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The best experience I ever have in Vegas, this is the best trip here period.  I did a 10 laps, which is a full racing against the other users.  It is fully insured included in the price unless you are in full intend to crash the car.  It includes a 30 minutes video instruction on how to drive, braking, corning, and the right way to race, especially the best driving line.  After that, a 2 demo laps on a Cayene GTS on when to brake and corner.  After all that, the fun begins.  It is not as easy as I imaged, it is a very hard work out to keep up with the speed.
> 
> EDIT. I called couple times before gave them my CC for reservation.  No string attached, everything is included in the price.


 


  Of the wide variety of videos I've seen on this site, head-fi should make an exception for yours to our delight and benefit.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Of the wide variety of videos I've seen on this site, head-fi should make an exception for yours to our delight and benefit.




I did not get the video, I will next year when I return here. It is a yearly trip for a conference.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Look what I found about those 300B.... $1,800 a pair here in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's absurd.  Made in Japan (I'm still doubting this too) or not, for what amounts to what is clearly a minor design variation off the Create tubes that is crazy money even before the export markup.  Quality new production tubes are quickly becoming a thing for the rich judging by everything that has been introduced as of late.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Trying to pick out 6SN7 driver tubes for a WA5, anyone familiar with these two tubes and how they sound?  A bit overwhelming how many different makes on a tube type by one manufacturer there are.  Trying to avoid ebay and this seemed like a reputable site (by reputable I mean it's not designed like crap):
> 
> 1949 Sylvania 6SN7GT, black plate, bottom getter:
> http://tctubes.com/sylvania-6sn7gt-bottom-getter-matched-pair.aspx
> ...


 
  His price on the Sylvanias seems ballpark.  They often reach those prices at auction if they test NOS and are in good condition.  I think it is a little high for the Tung Sols.
   
  It's hard to say which you would prefer.  The Tung Sols will have the more analytical, dynamic, and "solid-state" sound of the two tubes.  As for the Sylvanias, it depends on whether or not they were made off the tooling that produced the VT-231 tubes or not, they are right on the line given the year.  The VT-231 era Sylvanias are refined, musical and airy with a light sound.  The "bad boy" era tubes (the seller is misapplying this monikor to these tubes IMO) are romantic sounding with heavier bass and more ambience.  If you are trying to steer your system towards or away from one of these types of sounds these generalizations might help.
  
  edit:  if you buy the Sylvanias email the seller and ask him if the grid pins are copper on both tubes.  I can only see them visible on one in the photo, and this matters or your L/R tone will not match.  Sellers often miss this when making tube pairs.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Found this today:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-ORIGINAL-BVA-NOS-6AS7G-TUBES-HUGE-MATCHED-PAIR-BRAND-NEW-BOX-/330615583664?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cfa3973b0
   
  First thought is they are Russian, so buyer beware.  The metal collar at the top doesn't look exactly the same as a Winged C tube (might just be the angle), but it definitely doesn't look like a British tube either.
   
  edit:  here's another one:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-6AS7G-Vacuum-Tubes-LOT-3-NOS-Made-England-/330616982059?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cfa4eca2b
   
  That one is, without a doubt, Russian.


----------



## rosgr63

Despite the markings they might be made in USSR, just be careful.


----------



## Skylab

Yup, for sure Russian. Undoubtedly legitimately branded Mullard, as many Russian tubes were at the very end of Mullard's days. But those are $5 tubes. And people know it - the auction has no bids.


----------



## musicman59

Here is a pair of Mullard GZ33 in my WA5-LE

   
  And my Tung-Sol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates with the new Woo adapters.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> US1,800 a pair is crazy


 

  It sure makes these look like a bargain:


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Look what I found about those 300B.... $1,800 a pair here in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thats crazy, those 300B's are making my original nos matched (26/56) WE300B's look like a bargain because my WE300B's keeps increasing in price.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Like I said when I got the WE300B's, TSRP nos matched (07/42) set, in the long run I will be saving money but have the best of the best tube combo now. 
   
  btw; that picture you took of your WA5LE with the rings and the adapters, I would think your amp and tubes gets very hot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway after playing around with speaker amp's and resistors for use with my HE6's, I am very glad I got the Liquid Fire amp with my nos matched Siemens gold pin West German E88CC=6922. And the LF Hybrid amp just goes to show that you don't need a amp that weighs a ton.


----------



## Skylab

Well, for the first time in a long time I am Woo-less. I sold my WA22. But I am sure I will have another Woo at some point down the line. But probably not the new $10K Woo


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, for the first time in a long time I am Woo-less. I sold my WA22. But I am sure I will have another Woo at some point down the line. But probably not the new $10K Woo


 

 Please do visit us often, your expertise is always welcome here.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Here is a pair of Mullard GZ33 in my WA5-LE
> 
> 
> And my Tung-Sol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates with the new Woo adapters.


 

  Nice pic, Jose. How's the GZ33s sound in the WA5? And the Woo Audio 6SN7 adapters are looking nice.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It sure makes these look like a bargain:


 


 Yes, but I will keep away from EML at least for a while.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Thats crazy, those 300B's are making my original nos matched (26/56) WE300B's look like a bargain because my WE300B's keeps increasing in price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Actually not. The amp or tubes don't get more hot than any other tubes combination without dampers.
   
  I had a LF for a home audition for a couple of weeks. I have to admit that as it was burning-in it got better and better. At the end it sounded very good with all my dynamic headphones but my HE-6 kept sounding better out of my Threshold T50 than the LF and based on memory IMO the Dark Star made them sound better too. With all the rest (T1,HD800,D7000,DX1000,Edition 9) it excelled.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Nice pic, Jose. How's the GZ33s sound in the WA5? And the Woo Audio 6SN7 adapters are looking nice.


 

 This combination sounds really nice. It gives deep base with a natural midrange and nice highs with a nice tubey sound but not overdone. IMO for the money the GZ33 are a very good option.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> This combination sounds really nice. It gives deep base with a natural midrange and nice highs with a nice tubey sound but not overdone. IMO for the money the GZ33 are a very good option.


 

 Great to know and I will have a pair of Mullard GZ37 (claimed that they are identical with GZ33) and Glenn's 6SN7 adapters coming in the next week. I will have a very similar combo as yours to have a try.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Great to know and I will have a pair of Mullard GZ37 (claimed that they are identical with GZ33) and Glenn's 6SN7 adapters coming in the next week. I will have a very similar combo as yours to have a try.




Are you using NU 6F8G?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Are you using NU 6F8G?


 


 Noop, I have a pair Macroni RPBG and a pair of Raytheon Jan-CRP 6F8G/VT-99 clear glass.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Great to know and I will have a pair of Mullard GZ37 (claimed that they are identical with GZ33) and Glenn's 6SN7 adapters coming in the next week. I will have a very similar combo as yours to have a try.


 

 They appear identical, but are slightly different electrically.  The GZ33 is closer to a true 5U4G substitute.  It pulls a bit more current than the GZ37 (3.0A) and has a bit less voltage drop so it will sound a little different than the GZ37.  By all accounts the two are pretty similar overall though.
   
  I just ordered a GZ33 myself.  Tried to resist, but as I'm always telling myself the prices are never going to go down so why not.  My confidence in the EML 274B working long term in a WA22 is a little shaken so I'd like to have options available.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, for the first time in a long time I am Woo-less. I sold my WA22. But I am sure I will have another Woo at some point down the line. But probably not the new $10K Woo


 


  That is sad to hear.  And a little surprising since you seemed to like the HD800 so much with it.  When you started frequenting the thread less I was sort of beginning to wonder though.  You don't have your WA6 anymore either?
   
  Doing the math, since you've already had a WA22 and you aren't interested in the Woo 234 that sort of only leaves one option in between the two.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  At any rate thank you Rob for sharing your expertise with us here and I hope you'll still drop by to chat.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> They appear identical, but are slightly different electrically.  The GZ33 is closer to a true 5U4G substitute.  It pulls a bit more current than the GZ37 (3.0A) and has a bit less voltage drop so it will sound a little different than the GZ37.  By all accounts the two are pretty similar overall though.
> 
> I just ordered a GZ33 myself.  Tried to resist, but as I'm always telling myself the prices are never going to go down so why not.  My confidence in the EML 274B working long term in a WA22 is a little shaken so I'd like to have options available.


 


 Arh.............................that's why I've said I regretted I have the WA22 sold, in this regard at least, I save one rectifier tube on every of my order and no panic for the purchase at all. But on the other hand, I may spend the money for the 6AS7.


----------



## Xcalibur255

On the upside the 6AS7 is a *much* cheaper tube than a 300B is.    As for myself even if cost weren't an issue space is.  The dual chassis WA5 is simply too big for the space I need it to be in, so it is WA22 or bust for me.
   
  With the whole EML scare I did a bit of a "sanity check" and looked around at other amps in the same price range, but I still feel the WA22 is the one I want.  The fact that I own a whole box of tubes for it already might help too.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Actually not. The amp or tubes don't get more hot than any other tubes combination without dampers.
> 
> I had a LF for a home audition for a couple of weeks. I have to admit that as it was burning-in it got better and better. At the end it sounded very good with all my dynamic headphones but my HE-6 kept sounding better out of my Threshold T50 than the LF and based on memory IMO the Dark Star made them sound better too. With all the rest (T1,HD800,D7000,DX1000,Edition 9) it excelled.


 



 You probably had the stock JJ's in the LF, nice tube but for the HE6's the nos Siemens gold pin's are far better than the JJ's.
  I also tried a Quad nos set of Tungsram E88CC / 6922 and a Quad set of nos Amperex 6922 (PQ) gold pins, but non of these other three Quad sets came close to my nos Siemens.


----------



## rayk

Since this thread is ginormouse, what tubes would be reccomended starters for the WA6? Looking at trying some tubes that won't break the bank .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rayk said:


> Since this thread is ginormouse, what tubes would be reccomended starters for the WA6? Looking at trying some tubes that won't break the bank .


 


  I'd like to share my own experience and reason with you. And it's likely to be one suggestion in sea of suggestions to follow. There's no one way to have fun as I see it - getting a new amp and getting started.
   
  While waiting for the arrival of my amp, I had decided I would allow my Woo (and its tubes), new front-end and interconnects 500 hours to work their wonder (break-in?) before making any changes. After all, if one cannot assess where they are with the system, how would one know what direction to take the system and much seasoning to use? Establishing a base is highly useful.
   
  During this time, however, I studied potential tubes I might would like to try while I was getting acquainted with my new system based on my _Woo Audio WA 6 Special Edition_. I did start out using the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier but stock driver tubes, which at the time were RCA 6EW7's.
   
  Looking forward to reading the recommendations that will be coming for you Friday...


----------



## Icenine2

Dark Star.  You just don't hear anything about those after they came out.  I saw Skylab's review and that was it.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Actually not. The amp or tubes don't get more hot than any other tubes combination without dampers.
> 
> I had a LF for a home audition for a couple of weeks. I have to admit that as it was burning-in it got better and better. At the end it sounded very good with all my dynamic headphones but my HE-6 kept sounding better out of my Threshold T50 than the LF and based on memory IMO the Dark Star made them sound better too. With all the rest (T1,HD800,D7000,DX1000,Edition 9) it excelled.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Dark Star.  You just don't hear anything about those after they came out.  I saw Skylab's review and that was it.


 


   I updated the Dark Star thread early this week. There is just one produced so far. That's the one I listened to at our Detroit meet and later Skylab had and now Jude has but it is going back to Ray so he can take it to the RMAF show.
   
  I have one on order. Th eproblem has been the slow production of the chasis. Ray let me know he should be getting the chasis in about a week so hopefully we will start hearing more about them soon.


----------



## Icenine2

Really nice looking amp!  We'd love to hear your impressions when you get yours!


----------



## Golfnutz

I'm really having a hard time hearing changes in the sound of the LCD-2 compared to HD800 when rolling tubes with my WA22. It seems the HD800 are more sensitive to rolling tubes then LCD-2. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Noop, I have a pair Macroni RPBG and a pair of Raytheon Jan-CRP 6F8G/VT-99 clear glass.


 
  Is Macroni much better than NU and TS one?  I have not heard the Macroni before.
  
   


  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Arh.............................that's why I've said I regretted I have the WA22 sold, in this regard at least, I save one rectifier tube on every of my order and no panic for the purchase at all. But on the other hand, I may spend the money for the 6AS7.


 

 So sorry to heard that you missed your WA22, I can tell you it is in good hands now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You are right on the 6AS7G but at least no expense on the 300B...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  One reason I keep staying away from WA5.


----------



## Yitaro

Quote: 





rayk said:


> Since this thread is ginormouse, what tubes would be reccomended starters for the WA6? Looking at trying some tubes that won't break the bank .


 

 I am also a WA6 owner and from my limited experience with tube rolling, I would recommend Brimar 5r4gy ($50) for rectifier and RCA 6de7 (shielded. $7each).  This is the combo on my Woo right now.  Smooth, detailed, and punchy bass.  This combo is similar to Sophia Princess and Sylvania 6fd7 fat bottle combo at 1/3 the price (my backup combo).
  Enjoy your tube rolling.


----------



## xinque

Might be a dumb question, but what would happen if they touched?
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Here is a picture with the Treasure in my WA5LE that Jack sold me. Note how close the drive tubes are to the power tubes, imo not good at all.


----------



## sillysally

They may have offspring.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Vibration, heat disbursement, and probably other negatives. A well designed tube (glass) has a lot to do with the tone and heat disbursement of the tube. Kinda like adding tube dampeners on a tube it may change the tone of the tube.


----------



## rayk

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> I am also a WA6 owner and from my limited experience with tube rolling, I would recommend Brimar 5r4gy ($50) for rectifier and RCA 6de7 (shielded. $7each).  This is the combo on my Woo right now.  Smooth, detailed, and punchy bass.  This combo is similar to Sophia Princess and Sylvania 6fd7 fat bottle combo at 1/3 the price (my backup combo).
> Enjoy your tube rolling.


 

  
  Exactly what I was looking for, is there a good place to get these from other than ebay (pref a place that offers matching service)? Are these the 6de7's http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NOS-RCA-10DE7-6DE7-Amplifier-Tube-/360386121813?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53e8afd055 ?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Beware that listing.  The 10DE7 is not the same tube as a 6DE7.  The heater voltage is higher.
   
  Also, for how cheap they are it is good to experiment with these tubes so you know for yourself which you like.  The 6DE7 6FD7 and 6EW7 are all pretty different sounding and cater to different tastes.  There is also the 6CY7 and 6DR7, the former of which I really didn't care for.


----------



## jc9394

I usually keeps the tubes as far as possible to each other.  never use the 6AS7G with Treasures.  I love my Woo so much that I will try my best not to damage it.


----------



## jc9394

Another note, I'm Woo-less for over a week and very happy going back home to the family and Woo....  Can't wait to fire up the Woo to listen to my flavors with LCD-2...


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, where are you?  Sake is not the same here in Vegas... not as good...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Clayton, where are you?  Sake is not the same here in Vegas... not as good...


 


  You had quite the week out West! A good warm welcome from your family and Woo ought help you get re-oriented just fine. Wonder what artist/group you'll select first to help with this transition...




   
  Currently in-session with Astrud Gilberto.


----------



## Yitaro

Don't go to ebay.  For 6FD7 Sylvania fat bottle contact Jon at The Tube Store.  Last time I talked to him, he had a pair in stock.  I think the price is $6 each.
  For Brimar, you will have to go ebay.  I got my for $50 shipped.
  Good luck.
  
  Quote: 





rayk said:


> Exactly what I was looking for, is there a good place to get these from other than ebay (pref a place that offers matching service)? Are these the 6de7's http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NOS-RCA-10DE7-6DE7-Amplifier-Tube-/360386121813?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53e8afd055 ?
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## Yitaro

Need help with WA6 SE.  I have one on loan and not sure if this is normal, but the gain is really high.  I have my HD650 plugged into the "High" headphone jack, with the volume knob at 9 o'clock position, the music is very loud.  I can't go pass 10 o'clock without hurting my ear.
  Is this normal for the SE?


----------



## jc9394

^^^ yes, that was my experience as well. It all depends on your source output level.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





yitaro said:


> Need help with WA6 SE.  I have one on loan and not sure if this is normal, but the gain is really high.  I have my HD650 plugged into the "High" headphone jack, with the volume knob at 9 o'clock position, the music is very loud.  I can't go pass 10 o'clock without hurting my ear.
> Is this normal for the SE?


 

 I agree with jc9394. Depending on your source you'll find the WA6SE to be a dynamic amp with punch! (tube dependent as well) This was my out of the box experience with the 6 SE and stock driver tubes.


----------



## grokit

Has anybody tried the Sophia 6SN7?
   

   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160648411322
   
  It looks like Skylab tried them a couple of years ago and liked them for the most part, just wondering if anybody has used them is a Woo more recently.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Is Macroni much better than NU and TS one?  I have not heard the Macroni before.
> 
> 
> So sorry to heard that you missed your WA22, I can tell you it is in good hands now.
> ...


 

 For the 6F8G, you should know the answer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what I've still kept on hand.
   
  You really an EVIL. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But fortunately, after fully burn-in and with thoes costly tubes, it sound very good.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Another note, I'm Woo-less for over a week and very happy going back home to the family and Woo....  Can't wait to fire up the Woo to listen to my flavors with LCD-2...


 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You had quite the week out West! A good warm welcome from your family and Woo ought help you get re-oriented just fine. Wonder what artist/group you'll select first to help with this transition...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 You are lucky man for no need to travel frequently, I need to go to my Shanghai office every alternative week and stay there from Mon to Fri every time. My wife has no hard feeling about my travel and she says, she feels nice home alone with my cats when I'm not home.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Has anybody tried the Sophia 6SN7?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Sophia's 6SN7 should be OEM by Full Music which manufactured in Tianjin, China. They look identical to my eyes and is only US46.99 each from a most expensive seller, they can find in this Chinese popular WEBSITE, even some of the sellers are willing to ship outside China but, unfortunately, almost all of them cannot communicate in English.


----------



## Skylab

Unless you are madly in love with the looks, I wouldn't bother. Even a run of the mill Sylvania 6SN7GTB sounds just as good, and is much cheaper.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unless you are madly in love with the looks, I wouldn't bother. Even a run of the mill Sylvania 6SN7GTB sounds just as good, and is much cheaper.


 


 I can't agree more.


----------



## dannie01

Have some new "old light bulbs" arrived today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since I need some replacement to my fauly EML 5U4G. I ordered the Mullard GZ37 on eBay, from Taiwan and the seller sent them yesterday and door bell rang this morning, then I have them on my hands from the postman, amazingly fast shipment and swift action of the seller. The Mullard GZ34 fat/ black base, got them from a local seller which is the one sold me the Fivre 5Z3s. Now I have the GZ37 burn-in in the WA5LE, the initial impression is, they sound very nice as expected, no regret. Will try the GZ34 later.


----------



## Skylab

Nice looking tubes, Dannie!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nice looking tubes, Dannie!


 


 Thanks, Rob. But they are only looking good?


----------



## Skylab

I bet they sound awesome - nice tubes for sure IME.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bet they sound awesome - nice tubes for sure IME.


 

  I'm just kidding but I want to have your statement on my purchase. Thanks again, Rob.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You are lucky man for no need to travel frequently, I need to go to my Shanghai office every alternative week and stay there from Mon to Fri every time. My wife has no hard feeling about my travel and she says, she feels nice home alone with my cats when I'm not home.


 


  For all the dedication you have and the commitments you keep (home-work-audio), you are truly noble, dannie01.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Sophia's 6SN7 should be OEM by Full Music which manufactured in Tianjin, China.


 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unless you are madly in love with the looks, I wouldn't bother.


 

 I like the looks but definitely not enough to make a purchase. One of my fugliest tubes is one of my best bang for the bucks, that Brimar 5Z4G rectifier. I guess you said it all a couple of years ago re the Sophia Skylab, thanks again.


----------



## Clayton SF

I love my ugly tube, too! I is my fave.
  ugly Tube Owners Unite!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Has anybody tried the Sophia 6SN7?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One person likened them to the tung sol mouse ear, citing very similar tone.  There aren't a lot of impression on them in general.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Fellow Woo'ers, I need some help.  I'm looking for a person who owns a tube tester who would be kind enough to test a few tubes for me.  I nabbed some Chatham 6AS7G tubes off eBay for cheap, but the only information posted was that they "test good" with no details.  I received the tubes today, and to be honest they look scary.  The bases are slathered in some type of glue in a really misguided attempt to solve a loose base issue with the tubes no doubt, but they really got it all over the place on them.  I got them cheap, so there was little real risk, but I'm hoping to actually test them and find out their Gm readings to see if any of them make a proper pair and to know that they test good for shorts and leaks.
   
  If anyone would be willing to lend a hand please shoot me a PM.  Thanks!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I love my ugly tube, too! I is my fave.
> ugly Tube Owners Unite!


 

 I think the Brimar is pretty cool looking myself.


----------



## Sesam

Good things come in ugly packages, the beautiful EML 274B tube is resting peacefully in it's supplied box (coffin?). While the ugliest and smallest rectifier I have (RCA 5U4GB) gets all the loving. Though I expect my new favorite will be the SYLVANIA GB 5931 that I will be getting soon. 
   
  And talking about the SYLVANIA GB 5931, any opinions about it? My hopes are it will be like a souped up RCA 5U4GB


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think the Brimar is pretty cool looking myself.


 

 I think it is a beautiful tube. "ugly" is just a cute reference to it. I really like the fact that you can see the other side of the tube by looking right through the 4 holes on the front plate and through 4 more holes through the back plate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think it is a beautiful tube. "ugly" is just a cute reference to it. I really like the fact that you can see the other side of the tube by looking right through the 4 holes on the front plate and through 4 more holes through the back plate.


 


  It looks like one of ACME's very first Rat Traps circa 1941 , merely enshrined in glass for the company's history and preservation. Truth be told, your Silver & Elegant Woo can make a many a tube look good.


----------



## cifani090

I just have to show this cool/weird looking tube. Here it is, i wish there was a video on it...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I just have to show this cool/weird looking tube. Here it is, i wish there was a video on it...


 


 That is a small 2" picture tube 2AP4 used for oscilloscopes. I have some of these that I was going to build into my speaker amps to look at the output wile the amp was running.
  To tell when I was getting close to distortion. But I decided not to go through the bother when I built them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn, please refresh my memory on this. Is the 1641 RK-60 a drop-in replacement for a 5U4G? I know that Woo amps can take a wide range of replacements but if I have an amp that is not a Woo that uses a 5U4G, can I then use a RK-60 with your adapter in place of it?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Just a quick note, I was able to find some help with my tube request.  My thanks to those who offered!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn, please refresh my memory on this. Is the 1641 RK-60 a drop-in replacement for a 5U4G? I know that Woo amps can take a wide range of replacements but if I have an amp that is not a Woo that uses a 5U4G, can I then use a RK-60 with your adapter in place of it?


 


 Yes all the parameters are the same as a 5U4 except it can handle like 7000 volts to the plates. Because the connections
  are on the top of the tube and won't arck over in the base or socket. Otherwise it is identical to a 5U4.
  Another interesting tube I found to replace a 5u4 is a United Electronics 596


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow. the United Electronics 596 kinda looks like an EML. Do you make adapters for that tube? Have you heard its sonic qualities? What kind of caps go onto those top pins (horns) or do you use clips? Thanks for discovering these obscure replacements for the 5U4G and telling us about them.


----------



## FlyingBear

OMG. I was dusting my Woo today, and noticed something peculiar.
   

   
  See if you can spot it.
   
  Is this like owning a postage stamp with Lincoln's head upside down? Or if I ever sell the amp (which I won't, not ever) will people post the Audiogon link to this forum with "fake" plastered all over it?


----------



## WarriorAnt

That's too funny.  How long before you noticed?


----------



## Silent One

I wonder what the production run (batch) is for the stencil. Welcome back to the Bay, FlyingBear!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> OMG. I was dusting my Woo today, and noticed something peculiar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  It's on the website model, too! Wonder if someone has brought it to Jack's attention yet. I notified Jack just in case!


----------



## FlyingBear

I should have thought to look on the website, too. From there, I see that the black version in the product photos has an ampilier power supply, for the main ampilier. At least, in silver, I have an amplifier with an ampilier power supply.
   
  Typos are strange: one can so easily miss a glaring one like this, despite staring at it for hours.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's on the website model, too! Wonder if someone has brought it to Jack's attention yet. I notified Jack just in case!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flyingbear said:


> I should have thought to look on the website, too. From there, I see that the black version in the product photos has an ampilier power supply, for the main ampilier. At least, in silver, I have an amplifier with an ampilier power supply.
> 
> Typos are strange: one can so easily miss a glaring one like this, despite staring at it for hours.


 


  Already heard back from Jack (45 min ago)! He appreciates your input, FlyingBear (I informed him, as he know's I only have a_ 6 Special Edition)_. I only noticed the web model once you brought it to all of our attention - no one had identified or reported this before. It makes it harder to notice since it is in the rear. Then too, there's the glow of the tubes and sound emanating from the amp/headphone that has us preoccupied...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. the United Electronics 596 kinda looks like an EML. Do you make adapters for that tube? Have you heard its sonic qualities? What kind of caps go onto those top pins (horns) or do you use clips? Thanks for discovering these obscure replacements for the 5U4G and telling us about them.


 


 I just received some of these last week and haven't had a chance to make a adapter or listen to them. Going to to try to use pin plug jacks for the anode connections that I am going
  to order tomorrow. I will let you know how this tube works out at the end of the week.
   With the problems people are having with their rectifiers I am trying to find one that will hold up and sound good and a bonus you can get these tubes for $15


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn, please refresh my memory on this. Is the 1641 RK-60 a drop-in replacement for a 5U4G? I know that Woo amps can take a wide range of replacements but if I have an amp that is not a Woo that uses a 5U4G, can I then use a RK-60 with your adapter in place of it?


 


   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. the United Electronics 596 kinda looks like an EML. Do you make adapters for that tube? Have you heard its sonic qualities? What kind of caps go onto those top pins (horns) or do you use clips? Thanks for discovering these obscure replacements for the 5U4G and telling us about them.


 

  Clayton, you are so great to dig out these tubes, they look marvelous. I really hope they are replaceable to the 5U4G and good sounding with much lower price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes all the parameters are the same as a 5U4 except it can handle like 7000 volts to the plates. Because the connections
> are on the top of the tube and won't arck over in the base or socket. Otherwise it is identical to a 5U4.
> Another interesting tube I found to replace a 5u4 is a United Electronics 596


 
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I just received some of these last week and haven't had a chance to make a adapter or listen to them. Going to to try to use pin plug jacks for the anode connections that I am going  to order tomorrow. I will let you know how this tube works out at the end of the week.
> With the problems people are having with their rectifiers I am trying to find one that will hold up and sound good and a bonus you can get these tubes for $15


 


 Look forward for your finding, Glenn. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well we really have Glenn's expertise to thank for helping uncover these and to make sure they are electronically safe to use in our amps.
   
  And the added bonus is that they both look absolutely alien-cool.
  They must be talking to each other....


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well we really have Glenn's expertise to thank for helping uncover these and to make sure they are electronically safe to use in our amps.
> 
> And the added bonus is that they both look absolutely alien-cool.
> They must be talking to each other....


 

 Well, absolutely agree with that Glenn is expertise on helping us to use these tubes safely on our Woo and makng us very nice adapters.
   
  I start searching these tubes on internet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You are the man, Clayton.

  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Another interesting tube I found to replace a 5u4 is a United Electronics 596


 
   
  EDIT. My bad, I miss-read the message, sorry Glenn. Should be Gleen found that the United Electronics 596 to be replaceable to a 5U4G.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Clayton, you are so great to dig out these tubes, they look marvelous. I really hope they are replaceable to the 5U4G and good sounding with much lower price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +2
   
  I hope we end up with a good sounding tube at an affordable price.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well we really have Glenn's expertise to thank for helping uncover these and to make sure they are electronically safe to use in our amps.
> 
> And the added bonus is that they both look absolutely alien-cool.
> They must be talking to each other....


 


  I really love the aesthetic of the ol' technology (vacuum amps/tubes).


----------



## Skylab

While I am almost certain it was me that introduced the 6F8G to head-fi, I myself learned of it from an eBay ad Glenn was running, IIRC.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> While I am almost certain it was me that introduced the 6F8G to head-fi, I myself learned of it from an eBay ad Glenn was running, IIRC.


 

 And I learned of Glenn and his tube adapters from reading about the 6F8G that you introduced. What goes around, comes around--_in a very good cyclical way _here at Head-Fi! Thanks to everyone for pulling for each other.


----------



## dannie01

Swapped the Mullard GZ37s to Mullard GZ34s fat/black base in the WA5LE tonight for test , make sure they are working properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Found that they run the PSU transformer much hotter than the EML 5U4G. Also from the very initial impression, the GZ34 are quite different sounding to the GZ37 that I listened last night. The GZ37s have larger soundstage and sound a bit softer but very comfortable in the highs to mid. The GZ34s are stronger in low spectrum, deep bass and impactful. Since both tubes are only burn-in for few hours to make sure they're work after received. Will keep them run-in for about 200hrs each pair and compare again how they sound. 
   
  Any other Woollies whom have these tubes, please chim in and share your impression is welcome, thanks.
   
  Here is the Mullard GZ34 fat/black base.

   
  PS. These GZ34s fat/black base are bigger than expected, just wondering they are similar to the Russia 5U4G but bit shorter. I was stunned when I get them from the seller, the boxes are as big as the GZ37s which are ST shape. Sorry about to newbie on that, this is my first experience in the Mullard GZ34, so don't blame me please.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Swapped the Mullard GZ37s to Mullard GZ34s fat/black base in the WA5LE tonight for test , make sure they are working properly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Dannie, I find the GZ37 has a similar sound signature to the EML 5U4G. The EML just sounds a bit fuller, but not that significant of a difference (at least to me anyway).


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Dannie, I find the GZ37 has a similar sound signature to the EML 5U4G. The EML just sounds a bit fuller, but not that significant of a difference (at least to me anyway).


 

 Yes, I feel this, too. Thanks for the remind, Golfnutz. Besides the EML sounds a bit fuller, every instrument or music it plays are bit bigger and thicker than GZ37. No wonder if the pair I own are not fully burn-in in the moment or this is what they sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> While I am almost certain it was me that introduced the 6F8G to head-fi, I myself learned of it from an eBay ad Glenn was running, IIRC.


 

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And I learned of Glenn and his tube adapters from reading about the 6F8G that you introduced. What goes around, comes around--_in a very good cyclical way _here at Head-Fi! Thanks to everyone for pulling for each other.


 


  In following this thread, I too, learned of Glenn and his adapters from your exchanges..._ and got some!_


----------



## jerico

Was just out exploring and stopped into a flea market - scored a Sylvania 5U4GB for $5. The guy had a bunch of tubes, but none I could use other tha this one. He was asking $13 for 3 as well. D'oh. Just threw it in my 22, it sounds really nice.


----------



## xinque

Sounds like a good find.  Don't usually frequent flea markets but I'd imagine finding vacuum tubes at one is pretty rare.  Where was it by the way?  I only know of one flea market in Manhattan.
  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> Was just out exploring and stopped into a flea market - scored a Sylvania 5U4GB for $5. The guy had a bunch of tubes, but none I could use other tha this one. He was asking $13 for 3 as well. D'oh. Just threw it in my 22, it sounds really nice.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Swapped the Mullard GZ37s to Mullard GZ34s fat/black base in the WA5LE tonight for test , make sure they are working properly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
   
  According to Jack and Glenn, this is normal.  I will try to limit my session to under 4 hours.  That is just me trying to be careful...
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yes, I feel this, too. Thanks for the remind, Golfnutz. Besides the EML sounds a bit fuller, every instrument or music it plays are bit bigger and thicker than GZ37. No wonder if the pair I own are not fully burn-in in the moment or this is what they sound.


 
   
  Give it some more times, from memory when I used it on WA6, it sound very similar to EML 5U4G.


----------



## jerico

xinque said:


> Sounds like a good find.  Don't usually frequent flea markets but I'd imagine finding vacuum tubes at one is pretty rare.  Where was it by the way?  I only know of one flea market in Manhattan.




It was at the Brooklyn Flea (Williamsburg). The food there is better than anything else. I like tooling around flea markets though - I didn't go thinking I'd find tubes - and this one was less creepy than the ones I've been to in Manhattan. More arty I guess.


----------



## xinque

Maxxed WA5 finally arrived this weekend with stock tubes, thought I'd share initial impressions.  Listened for a few hours and compared to my Schiit Lyr with Lorenz PCC88 tubes, felt it was slightly better in just about everything except for the highs, which came off sounding harsh.  Hopefully sound will improve when my new tubes arrive sometime next week.  Here's what I have coming:
   
  EML 300B Mesh
  EML 5U4G Mesh
  Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB 1965


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> According to Jack and Glenn, this is normal.  I will try to limit my session to under 4 hours.  That is just me trying to be careful...
> 
> 
> Give it some more times, from memory when I used it on WA6, it sound very similar to EML 5U4G.


 

 Thanks for the input, John. Will give them more burn-in but they do sound nice and with quite a margin better than the Fivre 5Z3 that I use previously. And from the finding of new tubes type from Clayton and Glenn, anticipated to have the testing result from Glenn on how to work with Woo.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Maxxed WA5 finally arrived this weekend with stock tubes, thought I'd share initial impressions.  Listened for a few hours and compared to my Schiit Lyr with Lorenz PCC88 tubes, felt it was slightly better in just about everything except for the highs, which came off sounding harsh.  Hopefully sound will improve when my new tubes arrive sometime next week.  Here's what I have coming:
> 
> EML 300B Mesh
> EML 5U4G Mesh
> Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB 1965


 


 Congrats, xinque. The tubes combo looks very nice, let it burn-in for another 150 hrs (my own experience) and you will find the sound improvement, especially you have the maxxed version, both up-garded parts need more time to open up. Let us know how you like it then and we want some pics of your new toy.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Maxxed WA5 finally arrived this weekend with stock tubes, thought I'd share initial impressions.  Listened for a few hours and compared to my Schiit Lyr with Lorenz PCC88 tubes, felt it was slightly better in just about everything except for the highs, which came off sounding harsh.  Hopefully sound will improve when my new tubes arrive sometime next week.  Here's what I have coming:
> 
> EML 300B Mesh
> EML 5U4G Mesh
> Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB 1965


 

 Congrats on the purchase.  The Tung Sols are a bit on the aggressive side for treble as far as NOS tubes go, so if you continue to have trouble with the top after some burn-in a change here would probably help you out.  It could also just be the typical harshness of NOS tubes, which will go away soon.


----------



## sillysally

Here is a link on EBay I found for WE300B's reissued (not the original I don't think).
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-ELECTRIC-300B-Vacuum-Tube-Triode-New-Old-Stock-BOX-Very-RARE-/110746650063?_trksid=p5197.m1374&_
   
  Also when buying NOS tubes or USED tubes make sure you ask for and get the complete test results and from what kind of tube tester and when it was calibrated, buy from a reliable source and make sure you know what the test results mean (fair,good, extreme)
   
  I never see you guys posting the test results only the pictures of the tubes, maybe It would be a good idea to also talk about what is considered as fair, good and extreme test results are for those tubes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Remember if a deal looks to good to be true then it probably is not a good deal.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Here is a link on EBay I found for WE300B's reissued (not the original I don't think).
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-ELECTRIC-300B-Vacuum-Tube-Triode-New-Old-Stock-BOX-Very-RARE-/110746650063?_trksid=p5197.m1374&_
> 
> Also when buying NOS tubes or USED tubes make sure you ask for and get the complete test results and from what kind of tube tester and when it was calibrated, buy from a reliable source and make sure you know what the test results mean (fair,good, extreme)
> ...


 


 I do agree with your suggestion on buying NOS tubes. The sellers (mostly eBay sellers) would state clear how the test result and some will provide the model number and brand of what tube tester used to test with the tubes. But they rarely mentioned their tube testers are callibrated. BTW, I like your statement highlighted above.


----------



## xinque

Will definitely add photos as I go along.  Was a bit surprised that blue glow turned up in a long exposure night shot, seemed more like a greyish haze caught in the bottle at first.
   
  Quick question, just shut off my amp cause I was getting static in the left channel.  While it was powered I continued to get static even after I turned the volume to zero and shut off the source.  Then my cell phone about six feet away started ringing.  Is one of my tubes dying or could it be radio interference?  Or something else completely?


----------



## john57

Gee at the price that the biding is going on for the WE300B  it is not cheap. There is no mention if the tube was even tested for shorts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Will definitely add photos as I go along.  Was a bit surprised that blue glow turned up in a long exposure night shot, seemed more like a greyish haze caught in the bottle at first.
> 
> Quick question, just shut off my amp cause I was getting static in the left channel.  While it was powered I continued to get static even after I turned the volume to zero and shut off the source.  Then my cell phone about six feet away started ringing.  Is one of my tubes dying or could it be radio interference?  Or something else completely?


 

 Could be other unknown factors I'm not aware of, but your mobile will definitely cause radio interference. And if you listen closely, it will emit interference sometimes 3 to 7 seconds before your mobile rings on the desk or in the car (my own observation). Keeping your mobile away from your Woo is always a good idea (for critical listening anyway...).
   
  Using your land-line or second mobile, you can always stage a reenactment for test purposes.


----------



## john57

The blue glow is normal for some tubes.
http://thetubestore.com/blueglow.html 
   
  Yes, on some tube amps like the Little Dots which can be sensitive to RF interference from cell phone or wireless routers if close enough depending on tubes being used.
  You need to perform a bit more troubleshooting to narrow down if RF interference is the issue you are having.  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Will definitely add photos as I go along.  Was a bit surprised that blue glow turned up in a long exposure night shot, seemed more like a greyish haze caught in the bottle at first.
> 
> Quick question, just shut off my amp cause I was getting static in the left channel.  While it was powered I continued to get static even after I turned the volume to zero and shut off the source.  Then my cell phone about six feet away started ringing.  Is one of my tubes dying or could it be radio interference?  Or something else completely?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Here is a link on EBay I found for WE300B's reissued (not the original I don't think).
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WESTERN-ELECTRIC-300B-Vacuum-Tube-Triode-New-Old-Stock-BOX-Very-RARE-/110746650063?_trksid=p5197.m1374&_
> 
> Also when buying NOS tubes or USED tubes make sure you ask for and get the complete test results and from what kind of tube tester and when it was calibrated, buy from a reliable source and make sure you know what the test results mean (fair,good, extreme)
> ...


 

 In depth --
   
  sillysally, that's a great idea! It would help some of us become more fluent...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Will definitely add photos as I go along.  Was a bit surprised that blue glow turned up in a long exposure night shot, seemed more like a greyish haze caught in the bottle at first.
> 
> Quick question, just shut off my amp cause I was getting static in the left channel.  While it was powered I continued to get static even after I turned the volume to zero and shut off the source.  Then my cell phone about six feet away started ringing.  Is one of my tubes dying or could it be radio interference?  Or something else completely?


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Could be other unknown factors I'm not aware of, but your mobile will definitely cause radio interference. And if you listen closely, it will emit interference sometimes 3 to 7 seconds before your mobile rings on the desk or in the car (my own observation). Keeping your mobile away from your Woo is always a good idea (for critical listening anyway...).
> 
> Using your land-line or second mobile, you can always stage a reenactment for test purposes.


 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *john57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The blue glow is normal for some tubes.
> http://thetubestore.com/blueglow.html
> ...


 

 If this happens normal, it should be weird in my case, I have my mobile phone always place close to my Woo and have never heard any interference no matter what kind of tubes I use.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> If this happens normal, it should be weird in my case, I have my mobile phone always place close to my Woo and have never heard any interference no matter what kind of tubes I use.


 

 This is good to hear! Your mobile, the mobile network and the frequency it operates on could be factors. Along with how much metal and other stuff inside your listening room. Environmental, in other words...


----------



## xinque

Yeah, thought it was too much of a coincidence since I rarely get calls on my mobile.  Why would the static preempt the actual call by that much time?  Also, why would the interference only come through on one channel and not both?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Could be other unknown factors I'm not aware of, but your mobile will definitely cause radio interference. And if you listen closely, it will emit interference sometimes 3 to 7 seconds before your mobile rings on the desk or in the car (my own observation). Keeping your mobile away from your Woo is always a good idea (for critical listening anyway...).
> 
> Using your land-line or second mobile, you can always stage a reenactment for test purposes.


----------



## spagetka

Very interesting. EML 5U4G-M were swapped with 5AR4/GZ34 and it seemed that PSU was more stable and after 6hours drew less heat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> According to Jack and Glenn, this is normal.  I will try to limit my session to under 4 hours.  That is just me trying to be careful...
> 
> 
> Give it some more times, from memory when I used it on WA6, it sound very similar to EML 5U4G.


----------



## spagetka

speakers or headphones?
   
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Yeah, thought it was too much of a coincidence since I rarely get calls on my mobile.  Why would the static preempt the actual call by that much time?  Also, why would the interference only come through on one channel and not both?


----------



## xinque

Headphones
  
  Quote: 





spagetka said:


> speakers or headphones?


----------



## spagetka

PM sent

  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Headphones


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Gee at the price that the biding is going on for the WE300B  it is not cheap. There is no mention if the tube was even tested for shorts.


 

 Lets start here, for NOS WE300B you would want to see test results of 72 or higher with the same number on two test for that tube, one test at 4.3V and a second test at 5.0V. If the number (in this case 72) changes at 4.3V from the test number at 5.0V then I would take a pass on that tube.
  My original nos WE300B's have the same date code of  56=(1956)/ 26=(26th week of the year) 56/26. My test scores for 4.3V and 5.0V are 80 for one tube and 79 for the other and the emission on both are very low. Its rare to see these tubes with a test score of 80 or 79, what that means is they are very strong tubes and will probably sound better, depending on your amp and headphones or speakers.
   
  As far as high bid just wait until the bidding is over if you think its costly now, but that end bid will pale incomprehension to what a older original nos WE300B will sell for.
   
  Yes you have to Email the seller and see if you can pin him down with the questions I have stated and what ever you can think of.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As far as high bid just wait until the bidding is over if you think its costly now, but that end bid will pale incomprehension to what a older original nos WE300B will sell for.


 

 What years were the newer NOS WE300Bs manufactured? I've never hear either the original NOS nor the new NOS. Perhaps they sound similar. Not?


----------



## john57

Not all reissues even look the same. For example the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB reissue by New Sensor and made in Russia have nothing in common in how the tube was built or even sound. The old Tung-Sol and the new only have the name in common. In some cases the new Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB may sound better for some users. I noticed that some of the Mullard tubes are now made in Russia as previous stated by the same seller.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Swapped the Mullard GZ37s to Mullard GZ34s fat/black base in the WA5LE tonight for test , make sure they are working properly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Dannie, what are the date/factory codes for your GZ34? They look similar to mine, which are Mullard-branded f31 X8F. Supposedly made in the Philips Sittard, UK factory in June 1958. I actually find it rather clean sounding without punchy bass, but then they have barely clocked 20 hours. My GZ37 on the other hand sounds very similar to the EML 5U4G with a slightly smaller soundstage, a hair less treble and a bit more body in the lower regions.
   

   
  After using the EML 5U4G, Mullard GZ37 and Brimar 5R4GY, it sure feels weird seeing such a small rectifier.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Dannie, what are the date/factory codes for your GZ34? They look similar to mine, which are Mullard-branded f31 X8F. Supposedly made in the Philips Sittard, UK factory in June 1958. I actually find it rather clean sounding without punchy bass, but then they have barely clocked 20 hours. My GZ37 on the other hand sounds very similar to the EML 5U4G with a slightly smaller soundstage, a hair less treble and a bit more body in the lower regions.
> 
> 
> 
> After using the EML 5U4G, Mullard GZ37 and Brimar 5R4GY, it sure feels weird seeing such a small rectifier.


 
   
  Nice WA22, kchew.I will check the date code when return home from my business trip this Friday. For the SQ, I do agree with your finding as I have mentioned before but it's an initial impression since I have them put into my amp for less than 10hrs in the GZ34s and 5hrs in the GZ37s. Also, I have the same feeling about the small GZ34s, they are really amazing in such size of tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, as from the pic of your WA22, why not you connect with your phones balanced if you have balanced source, the WA22 will make your phone sings in a balance mode.


----------



## kchew

Oh no worries, my HD800 is using a 4-pin XLR and my CDP is balanced as well, so I have a fully balanced rig.
   
  This thread is really poisonous. Thanks to you guys I picked up a number of great tubes, and if Glenn is giving us more 5U4G alternatives, I do hope that they are affordable!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Oh no worries, my HD800 is using a 4-pin XLR and my CDP is balanced as well, so I have a fully balanced rig.
> 
> This thread is really poisonous. Thanks to you guys I picked up a number of great tubes, and if Glenn is giving us more 5U4G alternatives, I do hope that they are affordable!


 

 That's great to know you have your system fully balanced.
   
  Yeah, we are all devil here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, god bless you and there will nothing help to lock your wallet in the safe.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's great to know you have your system fully balanced.
> 
> Yeah, we are all devil here
> 
> ...


 


  Less empty --
   
  Can a tempered wallet really be less empty? Lurking here on head-fi for five years before membership and reading this thread for two years, actually helped temper my wallet. Granted, this exciting thread has still left my wallet empty, just less often!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





kchew said:


> This thread is really poisonous. Thanks to you guys I picked up a number of great tubes, and if Glenn is giving us more 5U4G alternatives, I do hope that they are affordable!


 


  More than anything I still wonder how necessary it is to be seeking alternatives.  Jack sells EML tubes directly for his amps upon request.  I can't imagine he would knowingly sell them if they weren't safe to use in the amp.  After looking through some other material on the net where the EML has been used (the Modwrights are a good example), the conclusion I'm coming to is that the early failures can be laid at the feet of Emission Labs themselves.  For whatever reason the tubes are just not robust enough to live out their expected lifespan.  Jack has also commented in the past that his amps operate the tubes well below their maximum voltages and there should be no lifespan issues with the tubes, so what I think we may be seeing are the expected quality shortcomings of a hand made product that is produced in very low volume.  I imagine such production is quite a challenge, so this isn't a knock against EML, but I also hope they are continuing to make improvements because a $250 tube is definitely not a throwaway item.


----------



## Silent One

EML Glass --
   
  This is why I pointed to Production issues in my post last week - they suspended operations twice in as many years for internal investigations. _I know they're trying, but so is my $250!_


----------



## Xcalibur255

Do you still have the links from where you read your information?  My searches turn up nothing.
   
  Back to the more fun subject of listening to tubes, rather than worrying about them, I'm reminded once again of the rewards of trying unlikely combinations of tubes together.  Somehow, without much thought behind why, my National Union black glass 6SN7GTs and my rarely touched Tung Sol 5V4G rectifier found themselves in the amp together this afternoon.  They make a really nice combination.  Clear, lucid and focused with a beautiful and natural midrange, a slight vocal focus, and none of the bass or treble softness I complained about from the NUs the first time I wrote about them.  The 5V4G gives them focus and lifts the veil off them, and the NU throw such an enormous soundstage that the intimate presentation of the 5V4G averages out to a nice and normal sounding presentation in the end.  It does sound a little constricted still, particularly things such as cymbals which I prefer to get as far out of head as possible, but its still nice.
   
  I like.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It also makes me wonder if a GZ32 would be a nice rectifier to own afterall.  I'd avoided them because of the small sounstage and bass, but clearly there are tubes that pair well with them.  The 5V4G has some very appealing aspects, but I couldn't get past how "in head" they all sound.


----------



## vinyllp33

Well my Woo brethren tis a bittersweet day; I am soon to be Woo-Less, it was a relationship that started back January 2007.

Here is the deal, of course everyone I'm sure is dreaming about the new Woo flagship and what unnecessary bodily organs can be sold off to fund same.

I have been super happy with my WA5 after owning WA6 then WA6SE. And once I brought the HE-6's into the mix it has been those 90% of the time and 10% K1000. I am sorry to say that nothing has been plugged into the 1/4in jack in a VERY long time.

So I got to thinking for the price of a new 10K Woo, which I'm sure will climb higher with upgrades, I could do a major consolidation and get a set of Stax SR-009 AND a WES or BHSE.....

My logic being that if I am using HE-6's all the time it is almost like having "one" set of phones anyway if the others sit unused.

The other motivation is tube costs, while the WA5 sounds great with stock 300B's, upgraded 6SN7 and 5U4G; once you hear it with Western Electric, Tung-Sol BGRP and EML there is no going back. This was really getting to be too much, I needed to have at least one set of backups for all tubes and I was also on the hunt for another set of K1000's!

Once I sliced and diced it I can make the major parlay and actually have some coin left....I was shocked when I added it all up. Plus I won't be searching eBay every ten minutes for $$$ NOS tubes, just rare vinyl and other sundries.

And as much as I like the WES with four 6SL7's, two 5AR4 in addition to the four EL34 I am kinda back where I started.

So I took the leap and got in on this batch of 45 BHSE being built which it looks like I will receive by year's end.

When I get everything sorted out I will have a black WA5, HE-6's and EML's for sale, maybe some other stuff too; you all will be the first to know.

Peace.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What years were the newer NOS WE300Bs manufactured? I've never hear either the original NOS nor the new NOS. Perhaps they sound similar. Not?


 

 I think early to mid 90's to mld 2005's the "reissued" WE300B's were made, but they were not made by Western Electric.
  I don't have the "reissued" WE300B's so I can't say, but from what I have read no the reissued are not the same.


----------



## Skylab

They were US made, though, on the same tooling, and were supposed to be excellent.


----------



## sillysally

Do you know this to be a fact, have you compared the two. I have also read that the "reissued" WE300B's in a few case's were having a problem with the globe coming off.
   
  But yes I have read the hype about the same tooling, maybe you should ask the boys from Alabama that worked in the original WE plant about what they think.


----------



## Skylab

I don't think there is any real question that it was the same tooling.  And for sure the newer ones were made in the US.  But are they as good as the older ones?  I have no idea, and I don't know of anyone who thinks so - most people thought the newer ones were good, but not as good.


----------



## xinque

Hrm..  seem to run into a different quirk with my WA5 each day now.  So today had the amp on, listened to music for about 15 minutes, then there was a slight pop in the left channel followed by static, right channel unaffected and continued to play music.  Shut down the amp to let it cool, turned it back on, and same thing happened again.  Any ideas guys?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Do you still have the links from where you read your information?  My searches turn up nothing.
> 
> Back to the more fun subject of listening to tubes, rather than worrying about them, I'm reminded once again of the rewards of trying unlikely combinations of tubes together.  Somehow, without much thought behind why, my National Union black glass 6SN7GTs and my rarely touched Tung Sol 5V4G rectifier found themselves in the amp together this afternoon.  They make a really nice combination.  Clear, lucid and focused with a beautiful and natural midrange, a slight vocal focus, and none of the bass or treble softness I complained about from the NUs the first time I wrote about them.  The 5V4G gives them focus and lifts the veil off them, and the NU throw such an enormous soundstage that the intimate presentation of the 5V4G averages out to a nice and normal sounding presentation in the end.  It does sound a little constricted still, particularly things such as cymbals which I prefer to get as far out of head as possible, but its still nice.
> 
> ...


 

 No links available. I needed some answers last year before I attempted to buy and still couldn't get the 5U4G Mesh - EML's production was start-stop-start then limited batches to a few dealers only. And I kept missing out (I didn't want to pre-pay and wait, actually). So, I reached out to George and had a few email exchanges to see what kind of hokey operation were they running overseas. And then made a similar inquiry with a California Audio Dealer (EML Distributor) - we had a lengthy phone conversation. 
   
  I think your new combo may sound less constricted with some hours in the books.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Hrm..  seem to run into a different quirk with my WA5 each day now.  So today had the amp on, listened to music for about 15 minutes, then there was a slight pop in the left channel followed by static, right channel unaffected and continued to play music.  Shut down the amp to let it cool, turned it back on, and same thing happened again.  Any ideas guys?


 

 Patiently and methodically, you may want to comb your listening room for airborne nasty's - EMI/RFI. I'd check cables and components. A $15 AC Line Voltage Sniffer can take you far. Can purchase at selected hardware stores. The example shown on the website is the 
[size=1.7em] Greenlee GT-11 Non-Contact Low Voltage Detector[/size]   
http://www.psaudio.com/ps/tips/15-noise-sniffer
   
  Your symptoms could be from a wide variety of things. But at least if you added something like this in your arsenal you could either narrow and find the problem. Or simply improve your system and that's a great dividend!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I think your new combo may sound less constricted with some hours in the books.


 


  Neither tube is new (I'm pretty sure somebody put a LOT of hours on this Tung Sol before I ever bought it in fact).  I've just never tried them together before.  The 5V4G sounds constricted by its very nature IMO.  It is a focused but dense and narrow sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Neither tube is new (I'm pretty sure somebody put a LOT of hours on this Tung Sol before I ever bought it in fact).  I've just never tried them together before.  The 5V4G sounds constricted by its very nature IMO.  It is a focused but dense and narrow sound.


 

 My perspective was they were not in use and may need some juice running through them again to get themselves right. Perhaps, they'll change (maybe not...).


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Hrm..  seem to run into a different quirk with my WA5 each day now.  So today had the amp on, listened to music for about 15 minutes, then there was a slight pop in the left channel followed by static, right channel unaffected and continued to play music.  Shut down the amp to let it cool, turned it back on, and same thing happened again.  Any ideas guys?


 

 Switch the tubes and see if the problem moves to the right channel if it does you have a bad tube with a intermittent short.


----------



## Icenine2

Woo WA2 For Sale looks nice w/tubes.  $950.  I can't help myself looking at the For Sale ads! 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/573579/woo-audio-wa2-nos-tubes


----------



## xinque

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, that seemed to do the trick.  Looks like one of the 300Bs is dying, I'm guessing an intermittent short isn't something you could fix?  Good thing I have new tubes on the way!
  
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Switch the tubes and see if the problem moves to the right channel if it does you have a bad tube with a intermittent short.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Woo WA2 For Sale looks nice w/tubes.  $950.  I can't help myself looking at the For Sale ads!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/573579/woo-audio-wa2-nos-tubes


 


  Yep...that's my old WA2...simply fabulous amp with my T1s and HD800s. I'm a bit surprised no one has snatched it up (Shane is a great guy to deal with as well).


----------



## xinque

Pics of the WA5 as promised, stock tubes.  Can't wait till those meshes get here !


----------



## john57

Great pics and the blue glow looks nice as well!


----------



## jc9394

Crap, my metal base GZ34 have static on right channel. Swap with EML 274B, it dead quiet again.


----------



## jc9394

Static back again, will swap the 7236 to see if it follows.


----------



## vinyllp33

xinque said:


> Pics of the WA5 as promised, stock tubes.  Can't wait till those meshes get here !




Very nice, that calm soothing glow will surely keep you up listening late into the night.

What 6SN7's are you using, I find they proabably have the biggest influence on the overall sound, but of course there still is a synergy with the other tubes and headphones used.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions guys, that seemed to do the trick.  Looks like one of the 300Bs is dying, I'm guessing an intermittent short isn't something you could fix?  Good thing I have new tubes on the way!


 

  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Pics of the WA5 as promised, stock tubes.  Can't wait till those meshes get here !


 


 Very nice pics, xinque. As for your finding about the 300B, you have just received the WA5 from Jack, you should report this case to him and ask for a replacement if the one of the 300B is not working well.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Crap, my metal base GZ34 have static on right channel. Swap with EML 274B, it dead quiet again.


 


     Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Static back again, will swap the 7236 to see if it follows.


 


 John, is that mean both 274B and GZ34 both have static sound? But you didi not have static before, what was recently changed in the system or anything added?


----------



## jc9394

Use both new TS7236 and NU 6F8G, the static is from the NU. When I swap the 7236, static does not follow. Swap out the NU with Treasures seems like static gone. I will give it a longer listening and report back. 

Time to email the seller now.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Use both new TS7236 and NU 6F8G, the static is from the NU. When I swap the 7236, static does not follow. Swap out the NU with Treasures seems like static gone. I will give it a longer listening and report back.
> Time to email the seller now.


 


 No idea if static will go for longer listening session but report to the seller is necessary if they are newly acquired.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No idea if static will go for longer listening session but report to the seller is necessary if they are newly acquired.


 


  It is one of the NU, the seller will send me another one.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is one of the NU, the seller will send me another one.


 


 That's great to know you'll have a replacement, a responsible seller.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That great to know you'll have a replacement, a good seller, indeed.


 


  Yes, he is great.  I got most of my NOS from him and he is only two hours from me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I received my Mullard GZ33 today and am just trying it out for the first time now.  I'll say this:  if the GZ33 and GZ37 are considered the more airy, romantic and "EML-esque" Mullards than I wouldn't even want to hear the GZ34.  I still have the National Unions in the amp, and they are the most mellow tubes I have.  They don't sound mellow with the GZ33 at all, but are dynamic and crisp right up to the line of being edgy sounding.  It's not crossing that line though.  The extra zing seems to be coming in the upper mids, because the higher treble range doesn't seem more pronounced really.  Nice, tight bass but doesn't have more drive or weight compared to the EML like some others have heard.  Seems about the same, with slightly less deep bass extension.  It doesn't have the intense upfront vocal focus I hear from the TS 5U4G, which IMO is a good thing.  It's closer to the Brimar 5R4GY in this regard, with a bit smaller staging and less air overall.  It doesn't throw sounds super wide like the Brimar will, and it doesn't go as far as the EML in any direction but it doesn't sound confined or congested either.
   
  Maybe she'll open up with some hours.  It does sound "faster" than the EML relatively speaking, and tighter in some ways but I wouldn't really say it has better dynamic contrast.  Maybe this is just the WA6 getting in the way, it doesn't count dynamic range amongst its strengths IMO.  It should be a good tube and provide a nice contrasting alternative to my other tubes.
   
  edit:  have to say, I'm _really_ liking how piano sounds with it though.  This may be the clearest window into this instrument I've been able to get on my amp.  I'm really curious how this would sound on some other driver tubes now.


----------



## jc9394

Agree, the Mullard is not romantic sounding at all.  They are much more dynamic than both EML I have.  I much prefer them with LCD-2 over the EML.


----------



## john57

If you wanted tubes that are even more mellow than the NU use the RCA JAN 6SN7GT with smoke glass and it is the most mellow tube in my collection. Since you have a more crisp sounding tube it needs more careful driver tube matching to sound the best. Good luck!


----------



## jc9394

Brimar CV1988 are pretty mellow too, especially use with GEC 6080.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have both the CV1988 (in clearglass) and the VT-231 greyglass RCA actually.  The former is a nice tube that I needed time to warm up to, but its a little overdone in the mids IMO.  The RCA sounds harsh in my system strangely enough, lots of sibilance and glassy mids.  I'm not a fan of their tone either, there is just too much extra in too many places..... it doesn't sound realistic to me.  The Sylvanias sound more true to life IMO. 
   
  When I think of romantic or tubey it is the National Union sound that comes to mind personally.  Such a beautiful midrange, but tonally it does not sound out of balance.  I was shocked the GZ33 could sharpen them up so much, the power of B+ voltage changes is fierce indeed!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I can make the NU sound downright lazy and dark if I roll an RCA 5R4GY in.  I didn't think it was possible to make anything sound dark with the K701 but there it was.  Now they sound borderline bright, it's really amazing how much of a range you can get from tube rolling.
   
  Once heard the piano I felt good enough about buying the Mullard.  I love the sound of this instrument over anything, and I've really struggled to make it enjoyable on my Woo.  Everything made it sound soft without realistic timbre, but as soon as I got close the amp no longer sounded good with vocal music.  The only tube that I felt performed both roles well was the black glass tung sol, which isn't getting wasted in the likes of a mere WA6 I'm afraid considering they're more or less irreplaceable at this point.


----------



## rayk

Has anyone tried the driver tube upgrades for WA6?

Any particular reccommended? Or the Drive/Power tube option 2 the one to go with? Cheers!

Loving the HD600s out of WA6 .


----------



## john57

I like piano music as well.[size=11pt]  The other night I went to hear Olga Kern one of the top tier pianists of today in Denver. All the tickets were general admission and by arriving early I can get a choice of the best seats for listening to her without paying more and far cheaper than other locations where she plays. She is really a good grace powerful player. Actually the JAN RCA  6SN7GT tube I have made in April, 1945 is my least favorite tube. It is way too dark in my setup. After the NU tube that I have printed as GE my second favorite is the CBS 6SN7  "shorty" with Side Getter and Black triangle plates. The CBS was a very clear, transparent  and revealing tube that cost just $.95[/size]


----------



## zeroryu

I just purchased a Woo Audio WA2.

Now.... anyone have some tubes they'd like to part with? please PM me. i'm looking for some. especially the 6080. the one i have right now is unmatched real bad, and in need of a replacement real bad.


----------



## Sesam

Talking about badly matched, is it really possible to detect badly matched tubes from just listening to them? I have tried some random unmatched tubes (of the same brand/mfg date however) on my WA22 and could not really detect any difference compared to the tubes that were matched. I'm not sure if this was just because the tubes had been made to such exact specs that matching was not necessary, or if my ears were just lousy and couldn't detect a problem


----------



## zeroryu

To give you more background to my problem:

my 6080 tube were originally the same manufacture(RCA) from stock, but one of them is hissing so badly, that Jack is willing to replace that for me for FREE! (awesome!), but then the new tube came with a different brand(JAN RCA), and it creates this sort of problem.

the left channel(new tube) now produce about 10-15% louder sound than the other one. if i were to listen to Head-fi HD tracks headphone test cd, i could hear the "center" of the voice shifted about 1 inch to my left. then... i tried putting it reverse, L on right, and R on left. and now i hear it's moving to the right 1 inch(approx). that's how bad it is right now.

jack hasn't contacted me back since i received the tube and emailed him maybe about 2 days ago. i hope he'll be able to respond me email, and give solution to this.


----------



## Sesam

^ I see, well as it's a different brand and everything I see why there would be a problem. Because even the sound signature can be noticeably different between different brands of tubes


----------



## xinque

Yeah, I haven't gotten a response from them yet either.  Guessing they're busy with TAVES up in Toronto this weekend, probably backlogged by the time Jack gets back.
  
  Quote: 





zeroryu said:


> To give you more background to my problem:
> my 6080 tube were originally the same manufacture(RCA) from stock, but one of them is hissing so badly, that Jack is willing to replace that for me for FREE! (awesome!), but then the new tube came with a different brand(JAN RCA), and it creates this sort of problem.
> the left channel(new tube) now produce about 10-15% louder sound than the other one. if i were to listen to Head-fi HD tracks headphone test cd, i could hear the "center" of the voice shifted about 1 inch to my left. then... i tried putting it reverse, L on right, and R on left. and now i hear it's moving to the right 1 inch(approx). that's how bad it is right now.
> jack hasn't contacted me back since i received the tube and emailed him maybe about 2 days ago. i hope he'll be able to respond me email, and give solution to this.


----------



## Wapiti

zeroryu said:


> the left channel(new tube) now produce about 10-15% louder sound than the other one. .




This would be frustrating, especially with a new I-want-to-play-with-it amp. 

I'm sure Jack will take care of you. In the meantime enjoy your amp!


----------



## nututubes

PM sent!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





zeroryu said:


> I just purchased a Woo Audio WA2.
> Now.... anyone have some tubes they'd like to part with? please PM me. i'm looking for some. especially the 6080. the one i have right now is unmatched real bad, and in need of a replacement real bad.


 
  PM sent regarding 6080 tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

An update on the GZ33:  now that some of the NOS tube edginess is fading away I'm liking what I'm hearing.  Still not convinced of how versatile this tube will be for me since it takes my most laid back tubes and turns them into dynamic monsters.  The pairing with the National Unions sound really good to my ears though, with superb clarity and transparency while letting a little of the NU magic midrange remain to remind you that there are tubes present.  One thing is for sure.... this tube is a beast.  The bass has really come in too now, it slaps the EML around in this department both for tautness and for weight/drive.  Really enjoying this aspect of the tube, I've never heard such bass from the K701 before, not even on my SS amp.  That it brings so much more of a dynamic and fast sound while being such a runt of a tube compared to the EML is most amusing.
   
  The WA6 is designed with the 5AR4 in mind (i.e. less b+ drop I believe), something I guess I never really gave enough thought to.  There is a certain "rightness" to the sound I'm getting now but I'm still thinking that with tubes less laid back than the National Unions it will be too in your face for my tastes.  I'm definitely starting to wonder if the 274B will be too laid back for WA22 duty though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> An update on the GZ33:  now that some of the NOS tube edginess is fading away I'm liking what I'm hearing.  Still not convinced of how versatile this tube will be for me since it takes my most laid back tubes and turns them into dynamic monsters.  The pairing with the National Unions sound really good to my ears though, with superb clarity and transparency while letting a little of the NU magic midrange remain to remind you that there are tubes present.  One thing is for sure.... this tube is a beast.  The bass has really come in too now, it slaps the EML around in this department both for tautness and for weight/drive.  Really enjoying this aspect of the tube, I've never heard such bass from the K701 before, not even on my SS amp.  That it brings so much more of a dynamic and fast sound while being such a runt of a tube compared to the EML is most amusing.
> 
> The WA6 is designed with the 5AR4 in mind (i.e. less b+ drop I believe), something I guess I never really gave enough thought to.  There is a certain "rightness" to the sound I'm getting now but I'm still thinking that with tubes less laid back than the National Unions it will be too in your face for my tastes.  I'm definitely starting to wonder if the 274B will be too laid back for WA22 duty though.


 

 GZ33 --
   
_"The bass has really come in too now, it slaps the EML around in this department both for tautness and for weight/drive"_
   
  Put me down... turn me loose! Where do I sign?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Love your new findings. I'm on the verge of listing my _WA 6 Special Edition_ w/Furutech fuse for sale. Perhaps, I can get in a listen before the amp is _down-the-street._


----------



## john57

Xcalibur255
   
  [size=medium]Your experiences with the GZ33 which is more like to the 5AR4 tube mirrors my observation with changing from the 5U4 tube to the 5AR4. I like the tighter bass since is makes dialog in movies with men with lower pitches voices clearer and a bit easier to understand as well. My bendix 6080 tubes works wonderfully with the NU tube and even enhance the sonic spacious sound that the NU tube imparts. I like that very much. The only issue I have is that movie sound effects can get to be a bit too extreme for my liking. [/size]


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm on the verge of listing my _WA 6 Special Edition_ w/Furutech fuse for sale. Perhaps, I can get in a listen before the amp is _down-the-street._


 


  You going to beat me to WA22 land?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I hope so at least.  It seems like there are a lot of people leaving the Woo circle lately.  Me thinks Cavalli has something to do with that at the moment.  I'm sure the LF is an amazing amp, but for $3,250+ I see no reason to change my current plan, nor did I find anything else at the 2K mark more appealing than the WA22.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Xcalibur255
> 
> [size=medium]Your experiences with the GZ33 which is more like to the 5AR4 tube mirrors my observation with changing from the 5U4 tube to the 5AR4. I like the tighter bass since is makes dialog in movies with men with lower pitches voices clearer and a bit easier to understand as well. My bendix 6080 tubes works wonderfully with the NU tube and even enhance the sonic spacious sound that the NU tube imparts. I like that very much. The only issue I have is that movie sound effects can get to be a bit too extreme for my liking. [/size]


 


  Indeed.  I think the general idea in terms of dynamics goes something along the lines of GZ34/5AR4 > GZ33 > GZ37 > GZ32/5V4G > 5U4G > 5R4GY > 274B based on my experience and readings.  I'm glad I ventured into the other half of the scale, but I can already see it won't work for everything.  Finding a solution that works for both vocal and instrumental music is a real challenge.  As soon as one sounds right the other doesn't.  Maybe the reason the 5U4G is so popular is because it is a compromise that works well enough for both, but my experience with the Tung Sol hasn't ever impressed me.  A nice tube, but nothing more to my ears.  If I could ever confirm that the EML 5U4G doesn't exhibit the artifical feeling imaging I hear from the TS (in other words to know that this isn't a characteristic of all 5U4G tubes), then I'd probably count on that as a sucessor to my 274B EML down the road.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You going to beat me to WA22 land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No, a different direction entirely. I made my last attempt of the year in September for a WA22. I simply could not pry one from any current owners out there. At this writing, I think I'd like to sell the Woo and the Wyred4Sound DAC-1 w/Low ESR "Super Caps." Then take the proceeds and buy a Korg MR2000S. I am only doing this because I lack income, otherwise I'd keep everything.
   
  I'm gonna sweeten the pot for my Woo 'till there's honey drippin' off the wooden spoon!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Will offer the amp w/stock tubes; the amp + EML 5U4G; the amp + 6SN7 adapters + EML 5U4G + Raytheon 6SN7WGT 1949's + NOS GE 6SN7GTA 1953's. Going to sleep on it Sat/Sun to make sure I can let go... _I am attached to my Woo._


----------



## Xcalibur255

I suppose it's just a question of which you want more at this point in time, the Korg or the Woo.  Though once you're done recording stuff on the Korg it might be nice to have something to play it back on.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I suppose it's just a question of which you want more at this point in time, the Korg or the Woo.  Though once you're done recording stuff on the Korg it might be nice to have something to play it back on.


 

 Yeah, I'm looking to rack some Vinyl and DSD. But, you make a great point about having something to play it back on. I've still got my Pioneer SX-650 (very good condition) that I may get dolled-up (new caps and power supply if I'm feelin' it) but it's fine as is. I'm sitting on three DACs and will shed two, though the Korg has analogue outs so I'm fine there until 2012.
   
  Tube amps are soooo v-e-r-y relaxing, I may pick up a WA22 with you next year. Or have Glenn spec me out an amp of his making. However, new employment will change everything when it comes!


----------



## sillysally

SilentOne,
   
  If you are using XLR (Balanced) headphones as your profile says, then what are you using as a Amp seeing that your headphone amp is a WA6SE (SE amp).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> SilentOne,
> 
> If you are using XLR (Balanced) headphones as your profile says, then what are you using as a Amp seeing that your headphone amp is a WA6SE (SE amp).


 

 Wireworld matching adapter. Formerly had it all typed in; will edit... fixed. Now my Denon's can get in where they fit in!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Thanks.


----------



## cyberspyder

OT:

Had a chat with Jack Wu today at the TAVES show, fairly insightful and demoed a wide variety of their products, he had a bunch of phones there with him including HD800's, k701's, T1's and DT990's, the latter I found to be the best sounding (surprisingly!) of the quartet.

Brendan


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cyberspyder said:


> OT:
> Had a chat with Jack Wu today at the TAVES show, fairly insightful and demoed a wide variety of their products, he had a bunch of phones there with him including HD800's, k701's, T1's and DT990's, the latter I found to be the best sounding (surprisingly!) of the quartet.
> Brendan


 

 What about a sneak preview of Woo Audio's own cans? Also, did you take any photographs while in attendance?


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> Yep...that's my old WA2...simply fabulous amp with my T1s and HD800s. I'm a bit surprised no one has snatched it up (Shane is a great guy to deal with as well).




I'll be the third owner of your WA2, MH. I'll probably pair it with a T1 eventually, DT880/600 atm. Right now I'm in awe of how it looks (my first tube amp) and I can't wait to see how it sounds.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll be the third owner of your WA2, MH. I'll probably pair it with a T1 eventually, DT880/600 atm. Right now I'm in awe of how it looks (my first tube amp) and I can't wait to see how it sounds.


 

 Congrats on your entry and membership!




  What's the very track you want to hear the WA2 push through your DT880's? No doubt you'll be scanning and playing various tracks like a mad person. But what track shall get the honor of being first?


----------



## xinque

For me, usually Prelude to War by Bear McCreary:
   




   
  RIght now my WA5 is just sitting there till I get tubes from Jack..  =\


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> For me, usually Prelude to War by Bear McCreary:
> 
> 
> RIght now my WA5 is just sitting there till I get tubes from Jack..  =\


 

 Looking on the bright side, your transit time will be short (NYC).


----------



## bergnerm

I promise you will not be disappointed! 

  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll be the third owner of your WA2, MH. I'll probably pair it with a T1 eventually, DT880/600 atm. Right now I'm in awe of how it looks (my first tube amp) and I can't wait to see how it sounds.


----------



## bergnerm

That's a pretty killer track! Must be sheer agony waiting for those tubes 

  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> For me, usually Prelude to War by Bear McCreary:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## dannie01

Tried to feel the tempreture of the trannies of the PSU of the WA5LE minutes ago after the 3rd day the Mullard GZ34 in use with it. Not as hot as day one when they're use with the WA5LE, become constant? No clue but the sound are keep improving with them, let see.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Tried to feel the tempreture of the trannies of the PSU of the WA5LE minutes ago after the 3rd day the Mullard GZ34 in use with it. Not as hot as day one when they're use with the WA5LE, become constant? No clue but the sound are keep improving with them, let see.


 


  Does the temperature inside your listening room vary widely or do you keep it in a pretty narrow (near constant) range?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bergnerm said:


> That's a pretty killer track! Must be sheer agony waiting for those tubes


 


  I understand that it was a popular television series but I never got around to watching it. Will listen to the track in between football today.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does the temperature inside your listening room vary widely or do you keep it in a pretty narrow (near constant) range?


 

  The amp stay in the same place with enough ventilation and room tempreture keep constant, too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The amp stay in the same place with enough ventilation and room tempreture keep constant, too.


 


  In other words, your Woo gets only the best!


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> What's the very track you want to hear the WA2 push through your DT880's?




Too Rich For My Blood followed by Nardis


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In other words, your Woo gets only the best!


 


 Because this babe cost an arm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with those tubes.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Too Rich For My Blood followed by Nardis
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Love Patricia Barber a lot and I have almost all her albums.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Love Patricia Barber a lot and I have almost all her albums.


 


  Patricia Barber? More homework. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I appreciate getting exposed to artists/groups outside my library though...


----------



## jc9394

Give her a try SilentOne, Danny get me hooked.  
   
  My GZ37 finally arrived.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Hey guys, looks like I'll be joining the club again. Been MIA since leaving the Woo 6 SE. But just purchased a WA22 from another member here. Really excited to step into Woo territory again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So is there a consensus of what good alternative driver and power tubes there are out there that can be had for cheap for the WA22? This would save me some trouble from having to go through 950 pages..I already have a Sophia Princess that I'll be using as a rectifier. 
   
  Also, has anyone ever tried using the standard headphone output as a preamp? I plan to test it out to my Taboo to see if it will work. 
   
  Oh yeah, Patricia Barber is awesome. She is like the epitome of Female Vocal listening experience. My favorite track on Cafe Blue is "A Taste of Honey" followed by "Romanesque".


----------



## Sesam

I recently got a couple of new rectifiers, and after some extensive listening I have to announce my love for the Sylvania GB 5931 rectifier. Coupled with the Shuguang Treasure CV-181 drivers and 6080WA power tubes, the sound is detailed with smooth highs, but most importantly the bass has great "punch" just the way I like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm surprised that the 5931 rectifiers aren't mentioned more often,


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tube amps are soooo v-e-r-y relaxing, I may pick up a WA22 with you next year. Or have Glenn spec me out an amp of his making. However, new employment will change everything when it comes!


 

 That thought has crossed my mind as well (bringing my business to Glenn for an amp), but I didn't want to strike up a conversation while I was so far away from actually pulling the trigger on something still.  Now that Glenn has worked on a WA22 he knows what it takes to beat it as well, but part of the Woo amps is the whole package including the beautiful aluminum chassis work.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I recently got a couple of new rectifiers, and after some extensive listening I have to announce my love for the Sylvania GB 5931 rectifier. Coupled with the Shuguang Treasure CV-181 drivers and 6080WA power tubes, the sound is detailed with smooth highs, but most importantly the bass has great "punch" just the way I like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The 5931 is just a 5U4G that has gone through additional screening and has an additional mica to reduce microphonics and noise for harsh environments, and should more or less sound the same as a 5U4G.  With the right tubes the 5U4G can deliver pretty punchy bass.
   
  When I bought my GZ33 it was under the assumption that it was basically the electrical equivalent of a 5U4G, but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I guess it lands somewhere between the 5AR4 and 5U4G, and the GZ37 is even more of its own thing.  One thing I do know is that the tube has been a lot of fun to experiment with.  I intend to try it with all of my drivers, and so far I've been surprised at what I've heard.  So far the synergy with the National Union 6SN7 is crazy good...... with the RCA VT-231 greyglass, not so much.  Not in the way I was expecting either.  It sounds rather dull and lifeless, which is the opposite of what I thought I'd be greeted with.  I can't wait to try my various Sylvanias with the Mullard.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give her a try SilentOne, Danny get me hooked.
> 
> My GZ37 finally arrived.


 


  Thanks, I will make getting to know her through some additional sampling this week. I'm quite aware who she is. But last year, after listening to some tracks from HDtracks & Chesky Records, I wasn't moved. My mood/emotional state could have influenced my session. Open minded, will revisit Ms.Barber this week.
   
  Now, if you wanna talk about getting "hooked," some years ago I tripped over and discovered K-Mok without knowing who she was or what she did. It took only one video frame and one musical bar and I was hooked! And the rest they say is history - now ALL K-Mok ALL the time (just kidding you and dannie)!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That thought has crossed my mind as well (bringing my business to Glenn for an amp), but I didn't want to strike up a conversation while I was so far away from actually pulling the trigger on something still.  Now that Glenn has worked on a WA22 he knows what it takes to beat it as well, but part of the Woo amps is the whole package including the beautiful aluminum chassis work.


 


  I have a deep appreciation for the Woo's aesthetic. The cladding, the contour and its simplicity is striking! Love at first sight, actually (for me). I didn't have the luxury of listening to one, but its looks led to the unit getting short-listed for further review. The thing that appeals to me about having someone like Glenn design and build my amp is that I can get 'wicked' pre-production rather than post-production. And yes, Jack could do the same thing (tailor to taste), but I could likely enjoy more flexibility with Glenn. Especially if we try some new frontier together, I wouldn't feel bad sending the amp back and forth or getting his late night call _"Well Silent One, it didn't work. How 'bout we try such and such?"_


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll be the third owner of your WA2, MH. I'll probably pair it with a T1 eventually, DT880/600 atm. Right now I'm in awe of how it looks (my first tube amp) and I can't wait to see how it sounds.


 


  Congrats! You will be very impressed with your DT880/600s. With the T1s, one of the very best amps I've heard with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## john57

[size=medium]That makes two of us that do not like the RCA VT-231 greyglass. Another tube that I did not like also is the original Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB which was too soft for my needs. I did find that the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB reissue tube sounds much better. I also like the silver wired Russian 6SN7GTB better than the plain version. That tube has a much more bass punch with crisp highs as compare to the plain version. Also that tube has a bit brighter filament glow. I also have a HITACHI 6SN7 that has good sound balance.  I usually use the CBS “Shorty” 6SN7 as pervious mentioned when not using the 6F8G tube. All the remaining 6SN7 tubes I tried fall between the tubes I have mentioned.  [/size]


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Patricia Barber? More homework.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  She is my favoured female singer recently, try to listen more (not listen once then give up) of her music because you may not love them at the first time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give her a try SilentOne, Danny get me hooked.
> 
> My GZ37 finally arrived.


 

 I received my GZ37s over a week but with no time to play with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the GZ34s are now sitting in the WA5LE for more burn-in and they become sounding better. Will wait for your comparison with all Mullard rectifiers because I'm still struggling to buy a pair of GZ33s and your impresion is always one of my important reference.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Hey guys, looks like I'll be joining the club again. Been MIA since leaving the Woo 6 SE. But just purchased a WA22 from another member here. Really excited to step into Woo territory again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Welcome back SemiAudiophile and congrats on the WA22, too.


----------



## Skylab

I'm a huge Patricia Barber fan too. Seen her live several times and she's the real deal. And her records are pretty much universally great sounding


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 5931 is just a 5U4G that has gone through additional screening and has an additional mica to reduce microphonics and noise for harsh environments, and should more or less sound the same as a 5U4G.  With the right tubes the 5U4G can deliver pretty punchy bass.
> 
> When I bought my GZ33 it was under the assumption that it was basically the electrical equivalent of a 5U4G, but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I guess it lands somewhere between the 5AR4 and 5U4G, and the GZ37 is even more of its own thing.  One thing I do know is that the tube has been a lot of fun to experiment with.  I intend to try it with all of my drivers, and so far I've been surprised at what I've heard.  So far the synergy with the National Union 6SN7 is crazy good...... with the RCA VT-231 greyglass, not so much.  Not in the way I was expecting either.  It sounds rather dull and lifeless, which is the opposite of what I thought I'd be greeted with.  I can't wait to try my various Sylvanias with the Mullard.


 

 Thanks for the input, Xcalibur. Your information help a lot on tubes purchasing and it's my reference, too.


----------



## Silent One

Anyone know if Jack took his new cans to Canada over the weekend? Or sneaked in anything else??


----------



## cyberspyder

silent one said:


> Anyone know if Jack took his new cans to Canada over the weekend? Or sneaked in anything else??




Nope. I only saw HD800, k701, T1's and PS1000. Karen Mok eh?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cyberspyder said:


> Nope. I only saw HD800, k701, T1's and PS1000. Karen Mok eh?


 


  Without a doubt! Love her voice, love her acting. My Woo gets fed a steady 200+ track diet of Karen Mok. Do you have, listen and/or like any of her material? Was it a well run show and did you enjoy your time there? It's Sunday night, a shared photo or two would be nice.


----------



## grokit

Man I take a weekend off and it's over 50 posts later, what a thread...
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> No, a different direction entirely.
> 
> Going to sleep on it Sat/Sun to make sure I can let go... _I am attached to my Woo._


 

 Say it isn't so! It Woold be a shame to lose you drom this forum. I dig your new avatar though, I was _really into_ those old black & white episodes back in the day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 5931 is just a 5U4G that has gone through additional screening and has an additional mica to reduce microphonics and noise for harsh environments, and should more or less sound the same as a 5U4G.  With the right tubes the 5U4G can deliver pretty punchy bass.


 

  Along with Skylab, your tube knowledge is truly encyclopedic and I have always enjoy digesting the content of your posts herein. When I looked up the 5931 they were straight bottles, but the 5U4G seems to come in both straight and hourglass shapes; could you elaborate on that when you get a chance?

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, I will make getting to know her through some additional sampling this week. I'm quite aware who she is. But last year, after listening to some tracks from HDtracks & Chesky Records, I wasn't moved. My mood/emotional state could have influenced my session. Open minded, will revisit Ms.Barber this week.


 

 I had the same experience with her, and have also been wanting to give hear another try at some point. Beautiful voice, but perhaps a bit clinical for my taste at the time. Too perfect? _Maybe_. But many here at Head-fi have sung her praises.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Without a doubt! Love her voice, love her acting. My Woo gets fed a steady 200+ track diet of Karen Mok.


 
   
  I will have to give her a try too, my standby female vocals _among many_ has been Margo Timmins for some time now.


----------



## Icenine2

I saw Pat Barber at the Audio show in Chicago around 2001?  The band and she were really impressive.  Love the Blue recording but I can only take so much of that style.


----------



## Wapiti

skylab said:


> I'm a huge Patricia Barber fan too. Seen her live several times and she's the real deal. And her records are pretty much universally great sounding




Excellent point. They are well recorded and engineered. Good demo material.

I find her a bit of an acquired taste so do listen to her with an open mind and a couple of times before passing judgment.


----------



## Skylab

Here's another vote for the 5931 - really great tube, doesn't get a lot of love but it sounds terrific and often available for not a huge amount of money.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Excellent point. They are well recorded and engineered. Good demo material.
> I find her a bit of an acquired taste so do listen to her with an open mind and a couple of times before passing judgment.


 

 Acquired taste; open mind --
   
  These are good points, Wapiti. I tend to revisit artists/groups because I understand the role emotions can play in our listening experiences. Then there's the other side - revisiting works you initially loved only to discover not so much (heightened senses under "The vacation effect"). It's important to keep one's mind open at this time too, so you don't short-change or discount your experiences.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Man I take a weekend off and it's over 50 posts later, what a thread...
> 
> Say it isn't so! It Woold be a shame to lose you from this forum. I dig your new avatar though, I was _really into_ those old black & white episodes back in the day
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks. As an Air Force brat I've always enjoyed Nose art; Tail art. I loved the Tomcatters' tail markings, so I free-handed a sketch. I might become Woo-less for a time but woold keep my seat in the 'Unite' thread - I enjoy the information/education/camaraderie here.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. As an Air Force brat I've always enjoyed Nose art; Tail art. I loved the Tomcatters' tail markings, so I free-handed a sketch. I might become Woo-less for a time but woold keep my seat in the 'Unite' thread - I enjoy the information/education/camaraderie here.


 

  
  I bet you'll never leave us even you're Wooless because so much fun here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And by the way you will be back again with some up-grade Woo's amp very soon, good luck all the way.


----------



## MacedonianHero

So I just thought I'd roll in my brown base 5692s (GE branded...likely Sylvania or RCAs), really clean sound and similar to my Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z driver tubes. Can't decide which I like better actually. The noise floor is slightly higher with these NOS tubes. For the heck of it after a few hours I rolled in my Tung-Sol 5998s and Mullard 5AR4...quite the different amp than what I was running previously (Sylvania 7236, Shuguang Treasure CV-181Z and Sophia 274B). The former being a little more SS'ish and the later being slightly more musical with better sound staging.

Got to say the WA22 responds to tube rolling.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Got to say the WA22 responds to tube rolling.


 

 QFT


----------



## xinque

Somewhat curious about this too.  As much as I like the Woo aesthetic for amps, can't really picture that industrial look carrying over to headphones.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Anyone know if Jack took his new cans to Canada over the weekend? Or sneaked in anything else??


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. As an Air Force brat I've always enjoyed Nose art; Tail art. I loved the Tomcatters' tail markings, so I free-handed a sketch. I might become Woo-less for a time but woold keep my seat in the 'Unite' thread - I enjoy the information/education/camaraderie here.


 

 Good to know. After reading the current conversation in the recent purchase pic thread I was thinking that your sketch would make a great tattoo.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Along with Skylab, your tube knowledge is truly encyclopedic and I have always enjoy digesting the content of your posts herein. When I looked up the 5931 they were straight bottles, but the 5U4G seems to come in both straight and hourglass shapes; could you elaborate on that when you get a chance?


 

 This is where my knowledge falters too.  As far as I know the glass type doesn't have any effect on the tube's sound.  The straight glass is usually the later 5U4GB style.  However, you see two very distinct types of plates on the straight glass tubes and I haven't really figured out why.  I thought the plates were type specific with the 5U4G having the t-plates and the 5U4GB having the cross type plate , but I'm pretty sure I've seen both plate types inside tubes of both designations.  A lot of people don't realize they are not actually the exact same tube, the electrical specs are slightly different.
   
  Honestly I still consider myself somewhat of a tube newbie.  I just absorb knowledge like a sponge when I become interested in something, which is how I've gone from clueless to only semi-clueness in this last year on this subject.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I definitely don't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Rob when it comes to tube knowledge.


----------



## Skylab

The "G" always indicates the "coke-bottle" style glass envelope, as in 6AS7G, 5U4G, etc. "GT" indicates the small straight bottle, like 6SN7GT, etc. Some tubes, like the 5Y3, came both ways - there is a 5Y3G and a 5Y3GT, 6V6G and 6V6GT, etc. The 5U4GB is the straight-bottle 5U4, but it is not the GT size of course, it's larger. Similarly the 6AS7GA is straight bottle, as is the 5998A, 6550A. But the "A" and "B" usually stand for design revisions where there was an "improvement" in specs, although quite typically the general consensus now is very often that the older tubes sund better.


----------



## cyberspyder

silent one said:


> Without a doubt! Love her voice, love her acting. My Woo gets fed a steady 200+ track diet of Karen Mok. Do you have, listen and/or like any of her material? Was it a well run show and did you enjoy your time there? It's Sunday night, a shared photo or two would be nice.




Some of it yes. I like to listen to some Bondy Chiu, Denise Ho or Bianca Wu. For a new show, it was fairly well organized, I expect next year to be even better with more manufacturers showing up and more vendors. Admission wasn't too bad, paid $12 for a student pass that was valid all three days. Didn't take many photos, here are a few I thought were worthy:































That is an iPhone 4 in the last photo being held up to one of the thickest power cables I've ever seen in my life. The Focal's sounded really good, too bad I can only afford about 1/20th of it.

Brendan


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cyberspyder said:


> Some of it yes. I like to listen to some Bondy Chiu, Denise Ho or Bianca Wu. For a new show, it was fairly well organized, I expect next year to be even better with more manufacturers showing up and more vendors. Admission wasn't too bad, paid $12 for a student pass that was valid all three days. Didn't take many photos, here are a few I thought were worthy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Talk about industrial strength, that power cable is huge! Gotta hear it someday. I was just thinking about making some outrigger spikes to place underneath my Woo this past summer. Never got around to it. Might have to see what odds/ends I can pick up soon at Lowe's/Home Depot. Thanks for sharing new artists - it will be fun and fascinating looking up Bondy Chiu, Denise Ho, Bianca Wu, Patricia Barber and Karen Mok later this week (Wait! How did Karen sneak onto that list?!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  And thanks for sharing your photographs with all of us!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I bet you'll never leave us even you're Wooless because so much fun here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No way! I was with you (as a reader) when you started this thread and I sought more information about these Woo Audio amps I'd never heard of. Upon seeing seeing pix from you and others, it was love at first sight! And reading the exchanges you all were having simply made me crave more, so I began to save for a WA6. After filling the tea tins for about a year I finally drew close to the purchase amount. 
   
  No sooner than I reached my goal, I wanted more! So, I began to save a few more months to buy the _WA 6 Special Edition. _At this point, any more time passing by while saving up and I would have passed out!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I had to have this strange but beautiful looking vacuum tube head amplifier. So, after all of this, I ain't leaving!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just placed my order for a WA6SE with sofia princess 274B rectifier upgrade  and 6EW7 power tube upgrades, can't wait to get it!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Good to know. After reading the current conversation in the recent purchase pic thread I was thinking that your sketch would make a great tattoo.


 

 To make a real story real short, I actually sketched the Tomcatters logo back in 1989, when fax machines ruled... no commercial internet! I was working as a Trade Assistant at a brokerage firm and literally sent hundreds of faxes to Bond dealers, Brokers and other liaisons. And always followed up on a second telephone _"You get my fax?!" _
   
  I needed a quick way to distinguish my faxes from the pack! And then I thought about all the coffee table books I had with photos of Military Aircraft... and that's when it hit me! I sought permission from the firm to personalize my fax cover sheet. The newly designed cover sheet had the firm's small logo and "From the desk of..." on the very top. And just below on the right-side of the page I placed a 3"x3" logo of Felix carrying a bomb with a caption "Better read it quick!"
   
  It was a hit among both my department and the various firms and parties I dealt with. I was able to always get the quickest confirmations and replies of anyone in the firm after that - it made things visually easier for the recipients to find among a sea of white papers. I'm quite sure that if I had a sketch or silhouette of my WA6 SE, I would have accomplished the same thing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just placed my order for a WA6SE with sofia princess 274B rectifier upgrade  and 6EW7 power tube upgrades, can't wait to get it!


 

 OHHHHH, you could have had my WA6SE!!!! Congrats on your purchase, Dubstep Girl! Will you be able to take delivery before Thanksgiving Holiday? I hope Woo Audio is able to push it out the door before Halloween.




   
  A shot of my one-time Sophia Princess at night (click for larger image):


----------



## grokit

Thanks for weighing in Xcaliber, here's to your _absorbent_ qualities
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now here is some great info to sop up:
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The "G" always indicates the "coke-bottle" style glass envelope, as in 6AS7G, 5U4G, etc. "GT" indicates the small straight bottle, like 6SN7GT, etc. Some tubes, like the 5Y3, came both ways - there is a 5Y3G and a 5Y3GT, 6V6G and 6V6GT, etc. The 5U4GB is the straight-bottle 5U4, but it is not the GT size of course, it's larger. Similarly the 6AS7GA is straight bottle, as is the 5998A, 6550A. But the "A" and "B" usually stand for design revisions where there was an "improvement" in specs, although quite typically the general consensus now is very often that the older tubes sund better.


 

 Thanks again Rob, you are truly the master teacher regarding Woo tubes around these parts. The straight bottle version that came up in my eBay search were indeed 5U4GB, the other 10 listings were hourglass-shaped. It always sounds simple when you explain these details so clearly.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xinque said:


> As much as I like the Woo aesthetic for amps, can't really picture that industrial look carrying over to headphones.


 


  The T! has a little bit of the same functional look - a little less cuddly appearing than many HPs.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

I feel the STAX SR-009 actually fits the Woo aesthetic pretty well.  At least in pictures anyway; I'm not rice enough to afford an SR-009, much less a WES...  My WA6-SE is ordered though, so at least that's something!


----------



## xinque

Woohoo, new tubes getting here sometime this week.  Might be a minor gripe, but you guys think Jack will ship matched pairs if I didn't specify?


----------



## mikemalter

Hey guys, and Aloha.  Back from Hawaii and finally digging into missed threads.  There have been so many posts over the past three weeks, I don't even know where to begin.  So, I guess I'll just fire up the WA22, continue to burn in Glenn's mods, and work my way through the hundreds of posts I missed.
   
  Sounds like everyone is doing well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey guys, and Aloha.  Back from Hawaii and finally digging into missed threads.  There have been so many posts over the past three weeks, I don't even know where to begin.  So, I guess I'll just fire up the WA22, continue to burn in Glenn's mods, and work my way through the hundreds of posts I missed.
> 
> Sounds like everyone is doing well.


 

_"There have been so many posts over the past three weeks..."_
   
  This ought to make you feel better about a missed weekend, grokit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Welcome back, mikemalter! You're really going to need to refill that coffee bowl while catching up.


----------



## Zheng

Hi, I'm new to head fi. Recently I bought a WA 6SE to drive my LCD-2, the tubes that I'm using are 6EM7 and the Sophia princess rectifier tubes. May I know if there are other tubes that will better match progressive rock music other than the 6EM7? Also is there a specific manufacturer that I should look into? My current setup is Macbook pro => Channel Island VDA 2 => WA 6SE => LCD2. Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Try Sylvania 6FD7 and Mullard GZ34/37.

EDIT, email Jack with your 6SE serial number to make sure it can use 6FD7 tubes.


----------



## Zheng

Thanks, I just checked the tube compatibility chart on the woo website, my 6SE is shipped after 4/17/10 so i can use the 6FD7. I actually did get the RCA 6FD7 from ebay but they are not the fat bottle type and they didn't sound as good as the 6EM7. could it be because of the skinny bottle or it's not sylvania? so is the Mullard  GZ34/37 a better rectifier for prog rock than sophia princess or the EML 5u4g? Thanks again


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I just received some of these last week and haven't had a chance to make a adapter or listen to them. Going to to try to use pin plug jacks for the anode connections that I am going to order tomorrow. I will let you know how this tube works out at the end of the week. With the problems people are having with their rectifiers I am trying to find one that will hold up and sound good and a bonus you can get these tubes for $15.


 

 Thanks to Glenn's adapter I am able to use the 596 tube with my WA22 and Taboo amps. This tube sounds incredible. It is a very organic sounding 5U4 variant. I used it on my WA22 with surprising results--it sounds incredible. The bass is well defined and deep that I had to try it out on my speaker system--the Decware Taboo. I am loving every minute and it is barely 4 hours old! And nary a hot transformer be had amongst them both.
   
  It not only sounds organic, it looks organic too--like it's connected to a giant Jack and the Beanstalk shoot. 
  Now back to listening!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Wow, Clayton, that rectifier is a tank.  Hearing about the positive results with these unknown tubes makes me wonder why amp designers don't try to seek out gems like this more often.  It would solve the tube price issue for a while too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks to Glenn's adapter I am able to use the 596 tube with my WA22 and Taboo amps. This tube sounds incredible. It is a very organic sounding 5U4 variant. I used it on my WA22 with surprising results--it sounds incredible. The bass is well defined and deep that I had to try it out on my speaker system--the Decware Taboo. I am loving every minute and it is barely 4 hours old! And nary a hot transformer be had amongst them both.
> 
> It not only sounds organic, it looks organic too--like it's connected to a giant Jack and the Beanstalk shoot.
> Now back to listening!!!


 


  Looking more and more like a scientific laboratory environment in _The City.  _






  Fascinating!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looking more and more like a scientific laboratory environment in _The City.  _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's October--time for you to visit _The City_, yes?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It's October--time for you to visit _The City_, yes?


 


  That's right... be right over (will see what your mid-month calendar looks like)! Given the choices I face, I may have to do a "Mini-series" and sample your collection of candy a little bit once a month.


----------



## Silent One

The '596' has me intrigued. May have to get an adapter from Glenn and check it out! Your Bass definition prompts me. By chance, were you able to get out and see shipsupt this past Sunday?


----------



## Clayton SF

Couldn't make it.
   
  Check with Glenn first to see if the base of the adapter with its two protruding wires used to connect to the top anode connections can fit in your WA6SE's rabbit hole.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Couldn't make it.
> 
> Check with Glenn first to see if the base of the adapter with its two protruding wires used to connect to the top anode connections can fit in your WA6SE's rabbit hole.


 

 Just sent him a message to check his progress. Failed to mention that as I wasn't aware. But when he gets back to me, I'll be prepared. I like the looks as much as the described sound!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks to Glenn's adapter I am able to use the 596 tube with my WA22 and Taboo amps. This tube sounds incredible. It is a very organic sounding 5U4 variant. I used it on my WA22 with surprising results--it sounds incredible. The bass is well defined and deep that I had to try it out on my speaker system--the Decware Taboo. I am loving every minute and it is barely 4 hours old! And nary a hot transformer be had amongst them both.
> 
> It not only sounds organic, it looks organic too--like it's connected to a giant Jack and the Beanstalk shoot.
> Now back to listening!!!


 

 Awesome!


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks to Glenn's adapter I am able to use the 596 tube with my WA22 and Taboo amps. This tube sounds incredible. It is a very organic sounding 5U4 variant. I used it on my WA22 with surprising results--it sounds incredible. The bass is well defined and deep that I had to try it out on my speaker system--the Decware Taboo. I am loving every minute and it is barely 4 hours old! And nary a hot transformer be had amongst them both.
> 
> It not only sounds organic, it looks organic too--like it's connected to a giant Jack and the Beanstalk shoot.
> Now back to listening!!!


 

 Wow, that looks incredible Clayton. Those 596 tubes, is there only one variant? I see the one sold on ebay but it's unbranded and looks like the same construction as the one you have installed. I think I'm gonna need to pick up a pair of those for my Taboo as well.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Woohoo, new tubes getting here sometime this week.  Might be a minor gripe, but you guys think Jack will ship matched pairs if I didn't specify?


 

 I would be surprised if he doesn't.

  
  Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Hey guys, and Aloha.  Back from Hawaii and finally digging into missed threads.  There have been so many posts over the past three weeks, I don't even know where to begin.  So, I guess I'll just fire up the WA22, continue to burn in Glenn's mods, and work my way through the hundreds of posts I missed.
> 
> Sounds like everyone is doing well.


 

 Aloha backatcha!

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"There have been so many posts over the past three weeks..."_
> 
> This ought to make you feel better about a missed weekend, grokit!
> 
> ...


 

 Hopefully he brought back some nice _Kona_ beans.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looking more and more like a scientific laboratory environment in _The City.  _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was thinking along the lines of
 or 
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The '596' has me intrigued. May have to get an adapter from Glenn and check it out! Your Bass definition prompts me.


 

  I need another rectifier like I need another hole in my head, but X2.


----------



## Icenine2

When I had my WA22, my wife exclaimed "it looks like some sort of science project!" and it was not a compliment!  This would have put her over the edge..................
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks to Glenn's adapter I am able to use the 596 tube with my WA22 and Taboo amps. This tube sounds incredible. It is a very organic sounding 5U4 variant. I used it on my WA22 with surprising results--it sounds incredible. The bass is well defined and deep that I had to try it out on my speaker system--the Decware Taboo. I am loving every minute and it is barely 4 hours old! And nary a hot transformer be had amongst them both.
> 
> It not only sounds organic, it looks organic too--like it's connected to a giant Jack and the Beanstalk shoot.
> Now back to listening!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

^^^ I tell my friends (if I have any left) that it's an ionizer from the 1950s. It charges the room with positive ions.


----------



## kchew

Call me shallow, but I just PM'd Glenn about his 596 adaptor as I really dig the look of that rectifier. Even if it doesn't sound as nice as others, I'll probably keep it to scare visitors.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Call me shallow, but I just PM'd Glenn about his 596 adaptor as I really dig the look of that rectifier. Even if it doesn't sound as nice as others,_* I'll probably keep it to scare visitors*_.


 

 Yes, that will definitely do the trick.
   
_"It's alive!"_


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I tell my friends (if I have any left) that it's an ionizer from the 1950s. It charges the room with positive ions.


 

 This unquestionably improves the sound.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks to Glenn's adapter I am able to use the 596 tube with my WA22 and Taboo amps. This tube sounds incredible. It is a very organic sounding 5U4 variant. I used it on my WA22 with surprising results--it sounds incredible. The bass is well defined and deep that I had to try it out on my speaker system--the Decware Taboo. I am loving every minute and it is barely 4 hours old! And nary a hot transformer be had amongst them both.
> 
> It not only sounds organic, it looks organic too--like it's connected to a giant Jack and the Beanstalk shoot.
> Now back to listening!!!


 


      Quote:


icenine2 said:


> When I had my WA22, my wife exclaimed "it looks like some sort of science project!" and it was not a compliment!  This would have put her over the edge..................


 


  
  Nice finding and pics, Clayton. You did it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I just pulled the trigger for a pair of United Electronics 596 on eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 after read only your few words about them. Also PMed Glenn for a pair of adapter for these "organic looking" GIANT. They look as huge as the EML 5U4G and really funny, yup, "it looks like some sort of science project!"
   
  The United Electronics 596 just bought from eBay and they look identical as yours, Clayton.


----------



## musicman59

Danny,
  So we can use them in our WA5?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Danny,
> So we can use them in our WA5?


 


 Jose, I am just stupidly believed that it can use in the WA5LE if Clayton can use it in his WA22 to replace the 5U4G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also I've PMed Glenn for a pair of adapters and was mentioned I will use them in the WA5LE, so Glenn must warn me if it is not suitable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  PS. Glenn just confirmed.
   
  "I have them in my 300B mono block speaker amps for a week now and they sound better then any of
  my 5U4s or 5Z3s."


----------



## Icenine2

Clayton,
   
The Tubes remind me of the_ Pods growing in the lab_ from " The Thing from another World " Sci-Fi film 1951.  My all time Sci-Fi favorite!  Great dialog, music by Dimitri Tiomkin plus some Theremin!


----------



## dannie01

Just digged out a great post about 6SN7 tubes *"The 6SN7 Identification Guide"*, all Woo amp users with 6SN7 tubes worth take a look.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Jose, I am just stupidly believed that it can use in the WA5LE if Clayton can use it in his WA22 to replace the 5U4G.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 dannie01--Well if you can't use those 596 tubes you just got off of eBay, then you can just mail those two tubes me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Clayton,
> 
> The Tubes remind me of the_ Pods growing in the lab_ from " The Thing from another World " Sci-Fi film 1951.  My all time Sci-Fi favorite!  Great dialog, music by Dimitri Tiomkin plus some Theremin!


 
  LOL!!! Yep, they be them!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01--Well if you can't use those 596 tubes you just got off of eBay, then you can just mail those two tubes me.


 

 No problem, please wait................................................


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01--Well if you can't use those 596 tubes you just got off of eBay, then you can just mail those two tubes me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Wait... I just woke up and didn't even get a chance to take a number! (overheard on the loudspeaker... "Now serving number 002." Silent One looks down to find his ticket is numbered 105 and wonders how long he'll have to wait).




   
  Post Script:  Yup, Glenn don' clean sold out!


----------



## Xcalibur255

A bit of reading reveals the 596 is considered a substitute for the 274A under the right circumstances.  That means it must be at least somewhat close, electrically, to the 274B (the only difference between the 274A and 274B being the pin configuration).  I'm guessing it is an "uprated" 274 type tube that can handle higher voltage and the like.  This might be akin to getting an original Western Electric 274B at 90% off depending upon how you want to look at it.  Of course I may be wrong too.......


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A bit of reading reveals the 596 is considered a substitute for the 274A under the right circumstances.  That means it must be at least somewhat close, electrically, to the 274B (the only difference between the 274A and 274B being the pin configuration).  I'm guessing it is an "uprated" 274 type tube that can handle higher voltage and the like.  This might be akin to getting an original Western Electric 274B at 90% off depending upon how you want to look at it.  Of course I may be wrong too.......


 
   
  actually, the 596 is not a direct sub for the 274a. the 596 draws 3.0A of current, whereas the 274 types draw 2.0A to 2.5A depending
  on the manufacturer. it may work fine onf the woo amps though. the 596 were supposedly used for aviation purposes and are
  high elevation version of the rk60/1641 rectifiers, which were applied at high voltage (up to 2100 peak inverse V) with maximum dc output
  of 250mA (but united electronics, which made the 596, claims the 596 can take up to 2300 piv and can put out up to 275mAdc).
  it's closer to a 5u4g than a 274a/b in general.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Does anyone know where to find those 596 tubes? It seems like ebay is all sold out. Do they come up every so often?


----------



## mikemalter

How do the 596 tubes stack up against the EML or Sophia?


----------



## Silent One

596 vs EML vs Sophia Shootout!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 596 vs EML vs Sophia Shootout!


 

 Pellet rifles or pistols?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Pellet rifles or pistols?


 

  
_Sonic shootout_,_ perhaps?_


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 596 vs EML vs Sophia Shootout!


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Sonic shootout_,_ perhaps?_


 

 There might have lot more coming.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Sonic shootout_,_ perhaps?_


 

 Of course.
   
  We will relegate only dead tubes to the firing line.


----------



## Silent One

Let's hope EML recycled all of their troubled Glass in the past 18 months...


----------



## grokit

The king of technology is dead, long live the king.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/574762/steve-jobs-has-died


----------



## Szadzik

A quick question to those in the UK who bought a WA2 from Jack Wu.
   
  How much customs did you pay?
   
  P.S. If you remember my problems with Jack Wu I wanted to update you. I made my order a timed one of WA2 and a headphone stand in black. A few days ago I asked Jack to ship the equipmtn and guess what? HE did not have the headphone stand in the colour I originally requested. HE had over a month to get my order ready and still did not do it.


----------



## vinyllp33

grokit said:


> The king of technology is dead, long live the king.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/574762/steve-jobs-has-died




Indeed the world has lost a true visionary.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The king of technology is dead, long live the king.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/574762/steve-jobs-has-died


 

 In retrospect, stepping down when he did, and the way he did was at once considerate and brilliant. I've long admired and cheered for both Steve's since their beginning. I am also moved by your touch, grokit (avatar).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> A quick question to those in the UK who bought a WA2 from Jack Wu.
> 
> How much customs did you pay?
> 
> P.S. If you remember my problems with Jack Wu I wanted to update you. I made my order a timed one of WA2 and a headphone stand in black. A few days ago I asked Jack to ship the equipmtn and guess what? HE did not have the headphone stand in the colour I originally requested. HE had over a month to get my order ready and still did not do it.


 

 Greetings Szadzik --
   
  I remember the challenges you faced earlier this summer. Wasn't your situation having to leave home for travel and you had no one to receive your Woo? And I suggested Jack get your order and payment handled and allow for a "Time order" upon your return? I really feel for your first time experience with Woo Audio. Many small companies face bumps-in-the-road like this one (suppliers, inventories and shipments).
   
  I hope adjustments are made to the satisfaction of both parties. And that you'll soon discover how your music sounds through the WA2. Looking forward to your feedback this autumn.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings Szadzik --
> I remember the challenges you faced earlier this summer. Wasn't your situation having to leave home for travel and you had no one to receive your Woo? And I suggested Jack get your order and payment handled and allow for a "Time order" upon your return? I really feel for your first time experience with Woo Audio. Many small companies face bumps-in-the-road like this one (suppliers, inventories and shipments).
> 
> I hope adjustments are made to the satisfaction of both parties. And that you'll soon discover how your music sounds through the WA2. Looking forward to your feedback this autumn.


 


  Yes, you did recommend the timed order to me, thanks. The original problem was that Jack was unable to deliver within the time he promised. No he shipped it, but just before that he informed me that he did not have the color of stand that I ordered. I simply got the one he got, a shame.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Yes, you did recommend the timed order to me, thanks. The original problem was that Jack was unable to deliver within the time he promised. No he shipped it, but just before that he informed me that he did not have the color of stand that I ordered. I simply got the one he got, a shame.


 

 What's your delivery date? Have you sent him an email yet seeking options with the stand? To some, color might be a minor issue. To others, it can (and has) affected moods; taken the entire listening room DOWN. Your T1's look great, by the way...


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What's your delivery date? Have you sent him an email yet seeking options with the stand? To some, color might be a minor issue. To others, it can (and has) affected moods; taken the entire listening room DOWN. Your T1's look great, by the way...


 


   
  Delivery should be within a few days depending on how long it will take to get my customs letter to pay the charges. Should be within a few days. I am not getting home before November though, it will be waiting for me when I arive.
   
  I do not really care about the color, but what puts me off is the fact that having so much time he was unable to prepare everything I paid for. And the key work is PAID here.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Delivery should be within a few days depending on how long it will take to get my customs letter to pay the charges. Should be within a few days. I am not getting home before November though, it will be waiting for me when I arive.
> 
> I do not really care about the color, but what puts me off is the fact that having so much time he was unable to prepare everything I paid for. And the key work is PAID here.


 

  
  Did you find out if Custom charges will be some what reasonable? I know earlier this year I had "Sticker shock" when selling headphones in The Netherlands.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you find out if Custom charges will be some what reasonable? I know earlier this year I had "Sticker shock" when selling headphones in The Netherlands.


 


  Nope, I do not know how much they will charge me. My Fedex tracking shows it as being on the van for delivery, but it will probably go on hold for a few days until the letter with charges to be paid reaches me and I pay and schedule delivery. My flatmate is awaiting the letter and will let me know what they say in it. Since I decided to get WA2 from the US I knew I would have to pay extra and I am ready to pay. Too late to worry about it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Nope, I do not know how much they will charge me. My Fedex tracking shows it as being on the van for delivery, but it will probably go on hold for a few days until the letter with charges to be paid reaches me and I pay and schedule delivery. My flatmate is awaiting the letter and will let me know what they say in it. Since I decided to get WA2 from the US I knew I would have to pay extra and I am ready to pay. Too late to worry about it.


 

  
  That you're getting a WA2, I'm still excited for you!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks to Glenn's adapter I am able to use the 596 tube with my WA22 and Taboo amps. This tube sounds incredible. It is a very organic sounding 5U4 variant. I used it on my WA22 with surprising results--it sounds incredible. The bass is well defined and deep that I had to try it out on my speaker system--the Decware Taboo. I am loving every minute and it is barely 4 hours old! And nary a hot transformer be had amongst them both.
> 
> It not only sounds organic, it looks organic too--like it's connected to a giant Jack and the Beanstalk shoot.
> Now back to listening!!!


 

  
  Curiously, Clayton SF...
   
  ...have you got two of _The Mighty 596_ rectifiers? Or have you been swapping for enjoyment between the amps?? If the former, have I got a deal for you, no shipping required! I'll visit the _Will Call Window_ at your residence... "Cash & Carry." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Then when Glenn completes my order, I'll have him ship my '596' to you as a replacement for your second tube.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That you're getting a WA2, I'm still excited for you!


 


  I do not want to get too excited at the moment as it is still a long time before I get home to try it, so it would be a pain being excited for 4 weeks


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Curiously, Clayton SF...
> 
> ...have you got two of _The Mighty 596_ rectifiers? Or have you been swapping for enjoyment between the amps?? If the former, have I got a deal for you, no shipping required! I'll visit the _Will Call Window_ at your residence... "Cash & Carry."
> 
> ...


 
   
_*The WooTaboo Sessions.*_ I've been swapping between the Woo and Taboo.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I do not really care about the color, but what puts me off is the fact that having so much time he was unable to prepare everything I paid for.


 
  Understandable.  Given the customer orientation of Woo Audio I am certain they are unhappy also.
   
  In these situations I find it helpful to refocus on what is important.  Will I enjoy riding my Ducati 1098S with the new big chip in the paint from a rock?  After a deep breath the answer is yes, it makes no practical difference..
   
  You will love the amp!  Let us know when it arrives.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I do not want to get too excited at the moment as it is still a long time before I get home to try it, so it would be a pain being excited for 4 weeks


 


  Ooh, I see what you mean...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> _*The WooTaboo Sessions.*_ I've been swapping between the Woo and Taboo.


 


  I like your version of Solitaire better!


----------



## musicman59

I have confirmation from Jack that the 596 rectifier tubes will work in the WA5-LE with adapters.


----------



## Silent One

Three Cheers --
   
  Three cheers to tea, lighting and music. And a toast to an innovator.


----------



## Clayton SF

A toast to Steve as well.
  I wonder what make those speakers of his are. The turntable looks cool too. And he has no furniture too! No wonder I could relate to the guy and his dreams.
   
  (Click on the picture for a larger version.)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A toast to Steve as well.
> I wonder what make those speakers of his are. The turntable looks cool too.
> (Click on the picture for larger version.)


 

 They look like maggies.  My question is, where are all of his headphone amplifiers?  I mean if he does not have furnature, isn't that what you have instead?


----------



## musicman59

I don't think they are Maggies. To me they look more like McIntosh from the 70s.


----------



## john57

Looks like Steve was using some dipole loudspeakers but not sure if they were Magnepan. I used to own a pair of Maggies that had white grills and much taller and a bit thinner. In those days I used AKG 240 headphones.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Clayton. Unsure what the editor did to the color pix I uploaded (strange). On my screen the shot (Steve Jobs) is showing in black & white. When I click on it, only then does it show in color. Are you all seeing my pix in color or black & white? Tuesday before midnight my computer died; on new computer...


----------



## Skylab

Pretty sure the speakers are Acoustats.


----------



## xinque

Tubes finally arrived !  Burning in now, some quick night shots I took in the meantime.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Understandable.  Given the customer orientation of Woo Audio I am certain they are unhappy also.
> 
> In these situations I find it helpful to refocus on what is important.  Will I enjoy riding my Ducati 1098S with the new big chip in the paint from a rock?  After a deep breath the answer is yes, it makes no practical difference..
> 
> You will love the amp!  Let us know when it arrives.


 


  It will arrive today probably. I will not see it until Nov 4th .


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ooh, I see what you mean...


 


  Just disappointment, nothing else.
   
  P.S. I am really surprised, but Fedex tried to deliver yesterday without sending me a letter with customs charges first, strange.


----------



## john57

It seems you are right most likely the Acoustat 3 or 4 is an electrostatic speaker. It is part of the Mk-121 series. It was manufactured from 1980 to 1982. In 1980 its price was $2000.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Acoustat-Model-3-Magne-Kinetic-Speakers-/180697937947
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Pretty sure the speakers are Acoustats.


----------



## vinyllp33

And the turntable looks like a Michell Gyrodec which would be accurate for that era; not sure about the amp though.


----------



## Skylab

I had a friend with Acoustat 2+2's. Sounded amazing, but they were huge, and the very devil to drive.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hey guys, just received my WA6SE with sofia princess 274B and the 6EW7 tube upgrades (option 3 on website), umm which ones are they though? 
   
  i got a pair of raytheon 6EW7 tubes and a pair of sylvania 6EW7 tubes.
   
  i know its probably a stupid question but im totally new to tube amps.
   
  thanks guys!


----------



## Draygonn

WA2 arrived today. Now I understand why Ric Flair yelled 'Woo!'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdABlGoar9g

Next step, finding a worthy DAC.


----------



## Wapiti

Congratulations!
   
  As I typically like Sylvania tubes my guess goes with these, but I really don't know.
   
  Try both and see which one you prefer.
   
  Tube amps are fun.  You are going to have a blast!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well i guess ill just try both of them out, gonna leave the amp burning is as it sounds a little too bright and sounds like it could do with some opening up.
   
  either way, i am extremely impressed by it already. 
   
  the biggest thing i can notice over my old amp is depth....theres just so much depth, imaging, and dynamics with this amp.
   
  also the build quality is amazing, feels like it will last forever...built like a tank and very elegant.
   
  anyways heres the pic


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hey guys, just received my WA6SE with sofia princess 274B and the 6EW7 tube upgrades (option 3 on website), umm which ones are they though?
> 
> i got a pair of raytheon 6EW7 tubes and a pair of sylvania 6EW7 tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 It's a great question to have to ask!  Congrats!
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> WA2 arrived today. Now I understand why Ric Flair yelled 'Woo!'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdABlGoar9g
> 
> Next step, finding a worthy DAC.


 

 Really nice photo.


----------



## xinque

Listen to Miles Davis for the very first time a couple weeks back on my Lyr with Lorenz tubes.  Saw a lot of recommends for Kind of Blue so bought the CD without hearing it first.  Thought it sounded fine but personally wasn't blown away considering how popular the album was.
   
  Now giving it a shot on my WA5 and it sounds markedly different,  a good different but not in a way I can describe concisely.  It feels more lively and the notes just seem to flow easily?  Maybe it's just an emotive response from a long work week, or maybe it's what people mean by musical or tubey (never figured what people meant by these terms, but still relatively new).
   
  Regardless, still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on..


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> WA2 arrived today. Now I understand why Ric Flair yelled 'Woo!'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdABlGoar9g
> 
> Next step, finding a worthy DAC.


 

 Congrats!
   
  What tubes are you running your new WA2 with? I strongly recommend the TS5998 or TS or Sylvania 7236s right off the bat. The stock 6080s were "meh". I found the power tubes made the biggest difference...then the driver tubes and finally the rectifier tubes.


----------



## JoeyO.

I just recieved my WA6 from fellow Head-Fi'er _MilesDavis2_!  What an incredible amp it is already.  It literally made me smile in the first few seconds of listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I can't wait to give it my full attention tonight while I sip a delicious Dogfish Head brew, mmmm.
   

   

   
  Tubes: Sophia Princess and Tung-Sol 6SN7 with Glenn's adapters.  Love ittttt.


----------



## mikemalter

A question about the DHC Triple Thread Headphone Adapters at http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37.  Am I reading this right that those adapters will allow me to use the cable for my LCD-2 with my HD800?
   
  Anybody tried these?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## MilesDavis2

Enjoy, JoeyO
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> I just recieved my WA6 from fellow Head-Fi'er _MilesDavis2_!  What an incredible amp it is already.  It literally made me smile in the first few seconds of listening
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A question about the DHC Triple Thread Headphone Adapters at http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37.  Am I reading this right that those adapters will allow me to use the cable for my LCD-2 with my HD800?
> 
> Anybody tried these?
> 
> Thanks.


 


   
  I have not tried them but that is what it says. It is just a pig tail with a female connector for the male LCD-2 cable in one side and depending which one you purchase it has the male connector for the HD800 or HD6XX or HE-6.


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> What tubes are you running your new WA2 with? I strongly recommend the TS5998 or TS or Sylvania 7236s right off the bat. The stock 6080s were "meh". I found the power tubes made the biggest difference...then the driver tubes and finally the rectifier tubes.



I'm running the Telefunken EZ80's and Mullard CV2492's. I'm going to locate some Tung Sol 5998's to replace the stock power tubes. Sophonax bundled a bunch of tubes and I'm using the ones you recommended in an earlier post.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> well i guess ill just try both of them out, gonna leave the amp burning is as it sounds a little too bright and sounds like it could do with some opening up.
> 
> either way, i am extremely impressed by it already.
> 
> ...


 


  Do your Raytheons have Made in Japan stamped on the glass?  If so then the treble should mellow out as you put more hours of use on them.  These tubes have a very silky presentation with good depth once broken in.  Very good match with the K701 in my opinion.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Do your Raytheons have Made in Japan stamped on the glass?  If so then the treble should mellow out as you put more hours of use on them.  These tubes have a very silky presentation with good depth once broken in.  Very good match with the K701 in my opinion.


 


  no but thanks. i think they are all the same. thanks for the tip, makes me feel better and i agree, ive been letting it burn in for 6 hours now and the treble is starting to calm itself  down and the details are coming out more. when  i first listened to it, it was quite bright and i was getting worried lol. glad to know it opens and smooths out as time goes on.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> WA2 arrived today. Now I understand why Ric Flair yelled 'Woo!'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdABlGoar9g
> 
> Next step, finding a worthy DAC.


 
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> well i guess ill just try both of them out, gonna leave the amp burning is as it sounds a little too bright and sounds like it could do with some opening up.
> 
> either way, i am extremely impressed by it already.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> I just recieved my WA6 from fellow Head-Fi'er _MilesDavis2_!  What an incredible amp it is already.  It literally made me smile in the first few seconds of listening
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Congrats and welcom to the club. Both set-up are great and enjoy your Woo with us.


----------



## shipsupt

mikemalter said:


> A question about the DHC Triple Thread Headphone Adapters at http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37.  Am I reading this right that those adapters will allow me to use the cable for my LCD-2 with my HD800?
> 
> Anybody tried these?
> 
> Thanks.




That's what it looks like to me. Interesting product! Let us know if you give it a try!


----------



## sillysally

*mikemalter;*
   
  Just E-Mail Peter, he is also a Head-Fi member. Nice guy, made up a HE6 headphone cable for me that works very well. Recommended!


----------



## grokit

Just a quick follow-up/update to the WA22 rectifier tube comparison that I posted about 4 weeks ago (which is probably long forgotten as it is an eternity in _Woo time)_:
   
  "I have been spending some time doing more extended listening with the top three tubes in the above rankings, and have discovered that _I actually prefer the EML 5U4G the most with the HD800, and the EML 274B is my favorite with the LCD-2 _(rev.1). While _the Sophia remains my favorite for use with both of these headphones_, it is very close second to the respective EML front-runners with either headphone. So while _my overall ranking remains the same_, if I only had one headphone instead of both I would change the rankings accordingly. In this respect, to me the Sophia is represents the best compromise for use with both headphones."


----------



## jc9394

^^^ I have similar finding with EMLs as you but for some reason I don't like the princess at all. If you have a chance, give Mullard metal base GZ34 and GZ37 a try. I found those tube are extremely nice with Woo, the GZ34 is great match with HD800 while GZ37 with LCD-2.


----------



## jc9394

I think I have found my perfect tubes combo for LCD-2, I'm loving it now and been using same combo for couple weeks. TS 7236, TS 6F8G, and Mullard GZ37.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'm running the Telefunken EZ80's and Mullard CV2492's. I'm going to locate some Tung Sol 5998's to replace the stock power tubes. Sophonax bundled a bunch of tubes and I'm using the ones you recommended in an earlier post.


 


  That`s right...I forgot you got my WA2. You`re set with the EZ80s and CV2492s...but a pair of TS5998 or Sylvania 7236s will really help kick it up a notch.


----------



## Draygonn

dannie01 said:


> Congrats and welcom to the club.



Thanks. Great eye candy in this thread.



macedonianhero said:


> That`s right...I forgot you got my WA2. You`re set with the EZ80s and CV2492s...but a pair of TS5998 or Sylvania 7236s will really help kick it up a notch.



TS5998's have been ordered


----------



## Xcalibur255

Mullard GZ33 is shaping up to be a very fine tube as well.  It's all about synergy with the other tubes, since not everything works well with it, but I'm finding that on average it allows the drivers and output tubes to achieve as much detail retrieval as the EML does which makes it a value for its lower price. 
   
  One thing to consider is the nature of the person giving impressions.  Some people tend to be more detail oriented, and some more tone oriented.  If forced to say I would say I'm the former.  Tone is extremely important, but if the timbre isn't true to life it doesn't matter how pleasantly voiced it is..... I can't get into it.  Some folks are the other way around and the sheer depth of resolution isn't their biggest priority.  I think this may be an insight to understanding why some folks clearly prefer the Sophia and others the EML.
   
  Getting back the the Mullard, I'm very pleased and impressed with the tube.  I have one more pair of tubes to try, excepting the round plate TS which I'm not planning to check right now.  Then I was planning to summarize what I found (in far fewer words than the last time I reviewed something) to give a breakdown of how the different drivers reacted to it.  There have been some surprises for sure.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> That's what it looks like to me. Interesting product! Let us know if you give it a try!


 

 I ordered the extension for the HD800 today.  I'll report back and let everyone know how they work.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> *mikemalter;*
> 
> Just E-Mail Peter, he is also a Head-Fi member. Nice guy, made up a HE6 headphone cable for me that works very well. Recommended!


 

 Thanks SS.  I'll say hi and mentioned you said hello.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I have found my perfect tubes combo for LCD-2, I'm loving it now and been using same combo for couple weeks. TS 7236, TS 6F8G, and Mullard GZ37.


 

 JC, I'll have to give this combo a try.  I want to put another 200 hours on Glenn's mods.  The sonics on the caps are shifting around as I put hours on them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> well i guess ill just try both of them out, gonna leave the amp burning is as it sounds a little too bright and sounds like it could do with some opening up.
> 
> either way, i am extremely impressed by it already.
> 
> ...


 







  The Woo Nation salutes Dubstep Girl; Draygonn; JoeyO. You all made quite the Friday splash! 
   
  @ Dubstep Girl - In all your excitement, try not to exceed 8 consecutive hours of operation (running your _WA 6 Special Editio_n). Try not to "Cycle" your amp by turning it on/off before your amp has had a chance to cool (30 - 60 minutes, perhaps)
   
  All three of your amps (Dubstep Girl, Draygonn & JoeyO) are beautiful, by the way...


----------



## Silent One

Friday Night Splash cont'd...
   
  I too, had quite the Friday night inside the listening room! First came the confirmation from 2359glenn that my '596' has been_ fitted & kitted! _Playtime comes Tuesday - can't wait! Secondly, earlier in the week, one of my computers gave-it-up! It was eerie and ghost like. Though tragic because I got lazy and hadn't backed it up, I'm relieved to say it was my Secondary music server not my Primary server, which the Woo benefits from (whew!).
   
  Ahhhh, but out of disaster comes opportunity. Ran out and bought another computer. And after getting it dialed-in, I thought a test was in order, so I played a DVD that gave my previous computer fits. Some months ago my audio dealer, Robert of Aphrodite Cu29, sent me 38GB's of perfectly ripped WAV files - a little bit of everything. Finally, the new discs play without a glitch. And I'm sitting here grinning as I realize just how much new music I'm about to import into the library. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As I was busy building and tweaking my system, he feared I might get burned out on my music library and made a move to expand it. Really, it's not enough to say that Robert is an excellent Audio Consultant. Like many of us, he is also a lover of gear and music. Sending me a surprise gift like that is truly amazing - thinking of me, the customer, long after the sale!
   
  So, to Robert (Aphrodite Cu29) and many more hard working independent audio dealers like you, cheers!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Woo Nation salutes Dubstep Girl; Draygonn; JoeyO. You all made quite the Friday splash!
> 
> @ Dubstep Girl - In all your excitement, try not to exceed 8 consecutive hours of operation (running your _WA 6 Special Editio_n). Try not to "Cycle" your amp by turning it on/off before your amp has had a chance to cool (30 - 60 minutes, perhaps)
> 
> All three of your amps are beautiful, by the way...


 


  thanks for the advice, i didn't know u can't cycle lol, good thing i just got it, i'll be careful 
   
  happy to be officially part of the Woo Audio owner's club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  can't wait to get my SR325is back. right now i just can't get enough of the K701 + WA6SE combo, my hd 650s are great with the amp but  sound a little too warm on some songs with the amp. the k701s on the other hand are a match made in heaven with the wa6se, just the perfect balance of dynamics, soundstage, detail, and energy  Both headphones overall tho sound amazing on this amp tho. the bass on the k701's is superb too, it really comes out and the WA6SE shows what the k701 truly is capable of doing, its on a whole nother level when properly amped.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks for the advice, i didn't know u can't cycle lol, good thing i just got it, i'll be careful
> 
> happy to be officially part of the Woo Audio owner's club
> 
> ...


 


_Yeah it is - the WA6SE is really a dynamic and fun amp!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> Enjoy, JoeyO


 


  Hope all has been well in your days and nights. I see you brought another soul along to join us. What's your next move?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> ^^^ I have similar finding with EMLs as you but for some reason I don't like the princess at all. If you have a chance, give Mullard metal base GZ34 and GZ37 a try. I found those tube are extremely nice with Woo, the GZ34 is great match with HD800 while GZ37 with LCD-2.


 

 Have you ever tried the Shuguang Treasure drivers? That is how I prefer the Princess, or actually the other way around it took the Princess for me to first appreciate the Shuggies.


----------



## jc9394

Yes, I still have the Trasures and understand why you like 274B with Treasures more the 5U4G. They are a match pairs, goes very well with each others but I prefer the EML 274B over the princess.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, I still have the Trasures and understand why you like 274B with Treasures more the 5U4G. They are a match pairs, goes very well with each others but I prefer the EML 274B over the princess.


 

 John, how's the comparison/ranking between those rectifiers you owned?


----------



## JoeyO.

Thank you for the warm welcome, folks!  Now onto my next adventure.. DAC upgrade or headphone out from my 2011 iMac?  I know this may seem blasphemous but I'm genuinely curious if it would make a huge difference.  My dilemma right now is that my current DAC, an M-Audio FireWire Solo, is quite the noisy little bugger and I'd like to take it out of the equation.  However, running from the headphone jack to my WA6 it is supremely quiet.  I was looking into getting a HeadRoom Micro DAC for a good price, but now I'm wondering if it'll improve things I as much as I hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sorry, I'm just sort of a skeptic about these things when the wallet's on the line, haha!  Thanks for any input ahead of time.


----------



## Sesam

Any opinions on how Shuguang Treasures compare sonically to Electro Harmonix Gold 6SN7 and Sophia/TJ Full Music 6SN7?. I have been using the Treasures since I bought the Amp, but I'm curious about other driver tubes 
   
   
  Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> Thank you for the warm welcome, folks!  Now onto my next adventure.. DAC upgrade or headphone out from my 2011 iMac?  I know this may seem blasphemous but I'm genuinely curious if it would make a huge difference.  My dilemma right now is that my current DAC, an M-Audio FireWire Solo, is quite the noisy little bugger and I'd like to take it out of the equation.  However, running from the headphone jack to my WA6 it is supremely quiet.  I was looking into getting a HeadRoom Micro DAC for a good price, but now I'm wondering if it'll improve things I as much as I hope.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Well a good DAC is essential, I consider the Cambridge Audio DacMagic one of the best purchases I have made. But I can't really give you much advice as I have never heard the M-Audio Firewire Solo, but I'm surprised to hear it's noisy that's not a sign of a good DAC


----------



## JoeyO.

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Well a good DAC is essential, I consider the Cambridge Audio DacMagic one of the best purchases I have made. But I can't really give you much advice as I have never heard the M-Audio Firewire Solo, but I'm surprised to hear it's noisy that's not a sign of a good DAC


 


  Haha, tell me about it!  I think the upgrade from a LD MKIII to the WA6 really brought out the flaw of the M-Audio, so obviously now, I'm considering cleaning up that signal!  The DACMagic seems like one helluva device but it's a bit out of my price range at the moment.  I may bite the bullet and purchase the used HR MicroDAC in the FS forum.  I'm hoping it'd be the right call.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> Haha, tell me about it!  I think the upgrade from a LD MKIII to the WA6 really brought out the flaw of the M-Audio, so obviously now, I'm considering cleaning up that signal!  The DACMagic seems like one helluva device but it's a bit out of my price range at the moment.  I may bite the bullet and purchase the used HR MicroDAC in the FS forum.  I'm hoping it'd be the right call.


 


  Greetings JoeyO!
   
  Analogue Out can serve in a pinch. It is actually better coming out of the Mac than some may suspect. But, I also liken this short-term fix to the spare doughnut inside the trunk of many cars - it'll get you down the street alright. But keep it under 50 mph, drive no further than 35 miles and replace as soon as possible (highly recommended). A good DAC can take your WA6 based system places.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Any opinions on how Shuguang Treasures compare sonically to Electro Harmonix Gold 6SN7 and Sophia/TJ Full Music 6SN7?. I have been using the Treasures since I bought the Amp, but I'm curious about other driver tubes


 

 I've got the Treasures and the EH Gold 6SN7s....no comparison IMO. The Treasures are my favourite driver tubes that I currently own (even more so than my Sylvania 5692s). I do have a pair of VT-231 RCA (Smoked Glass) coming in next week...I'll report back when they arrive.


----------



## dannie01

For those who have problems or concern about the EML 5U4G tubes with your Woo's amp (especially WA5or WA5LE), as I've stated weeks ago about the blew of the EML 5U4G with my WA5LE, the amp was being dumb sunndenly during my listening session. Then I wrote an email to Jac of JacMusic to report the case and ask for assistance. He is kind enough to help with my problem and said he will contact Jack Wu to see what they can do or further re-solve the problem. Weeks past, got a detail and very informative replied when I asked Jac again last night and he has a suggestion to add a resistor in the series in the circuit for the exceeding value of cap were used. Jac wants me to post his reply here to seek more information and discussion.
   
   
_*Hello Danny,*_
   
_*I was in contact about this with Jack Wu, also by phone. I have asked a few times for the schematic, but I don't have it (yet). From the pictures on the forum there are few things that draw my attention. However, without schematic it is hard for me.*_
   
_*1) It seems to me the first capacitor is 220uF. The maximum value for one tube is 33uF. And that value is really a limit. Even so, design right at the limit is not recommended, unless you are 100% sure you need no reserve for small issues.*_
   
_*With two tubes in parallel, we have 66uF. Still that is exceeded by a multiple here.*_
   
_*2) The 2nd and 3rd capacitor have also values of 220uF. So a total of 660uF. There are two chokes are in between, which protects the rectifier from too high ripple current at normal operation, but the chokes do not protect from surge current at start up. One way or another these caps are empty at switch on, and have to be charged. Exceeding the 66uF, can be done, but then you MUST have an additional series resistor or any other protective circuit. I pasted one in the drawing, it is originally not there.*_
   
_*3) The filaments of the 5U4G are in series, which is by definition not possible for tubes that are not made for it. Let me explain why that is so for all parallel intended tubes. So not just for 5U4G from EML. You also can not do this with 6C33 or EL34, or 12AU7, any other voltage specified tube. Though people do it, it can cause problems. With 6C33 even damaged tube sockets, but that is off topic here.*_
   
_*What happens with the 5U4G? Suppose, at 5Volt, one tube draws 5% more heater current than average , and the other -5% less. Such tubes are normal, good rectifiers. In series operation however you force both heaters at the same current. This can cause a much larger difference in voltage as one might expect. Reason is, the heater which is forced at higher current, will have higher temperature, and from this results higher wire resistance. Resistance goes up much more than 5%! Now comes the issue: The higher resistance will unevenly distribute the 10 Volts. This tube will develop more than 5Volts now, and filament temperature rises even further. The OTHER tube moves into the other direction. The effect can avalanche. So what the one tube does, makes things worse for the other. Quite unexpected voltage differences can occur, exceed the 5% by far. This is so for all tubes, new or NOS, and 5U4G is no exception.*_
   
_*3.1) Most specially you get problems when serializing tubes from different vendors, or production codes, since the heat up behavior is often different. A cold tube has up to 10x lower resistance. Before it is at normal value, 15...30 second may pass. During that time distribution of the 10V into 5V and 5V, is definitely not be the case.*_
   
_*4) The sketch I add to this mail is by Jack Wu, the markings are by me. I see there the transformer is 110V. This is correct for many countries, but some have 115V or 120V. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_around_the_world 120V or 110V is 9% more, which by itself exceeds the tolerance of most tube heaters. (max 5%). So I assume 120V and 110V versions are shipped.*_
   
_*So what to do now?*_
   
_*This is very hard to say for me without schematic.*_
   
_*At point 3) I recommend to add the blue wire, as in the attached schematic. This is needed to begin with, and can be done quickly. For 1) and 2) I need the schematic.*_
   
_*I would encourage you to put this information on the forum, and I hope it will spark a useful discussion (and a circuit diagram). Please do not paste my email address to prevent spam, but the website address is fine.*_
   
_*Best regards,
 Jac*_
   
   
  Click to enlarge


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> For those who have problems or concern about the EML 5U4G tubes with your Woo's amp (especially WA5or WA5LE), as I've stated weeks ago about the blew of the EML 5U4G with my WA5LE, the amp was being dumb sunndenly during my listening session. Then I wrote an email to Jac of JacMusic to report the case and ask for assistance. He is kind enough to help with my problem and said he will contact Jack Wu to see what they can do or further re-solve the problem. Weeks past, got a detail and very informative replied when I asked Jac again last night and he has a suggestion to add a resistor in the series in the circuit for the exceeding value of cap were used. Jac wants me to post his reply here to seek more information and discussion.
> 
> 
> _*Hello Danny,*_
> ...


 


  Nice collaboration among customer and vendors, dannie01!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm glad to see this cause is still being pursued.  If the design can be improved, it should be IMO, since it is to everybody's benefit.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nice collaboration among customer and vendors, dannie01!


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm glad to see this cause is still being pursued.  If the design can be improved, it should be IMO, since it is to everybody's benefit.


 

 I do agree with that. But curious why or how Jack will design in this way if exceed the value of caps use for the rectifier tubes is not recommend by manufacturers.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, I still have the Trasures and understand why you like 274B with Treasures more the 5U4G. They are a match pairs, goes very well with each others but I prefer the EML 274B over the princess.


 

  I like the EML 5U4G with the Treasures as well, just with the HD800 not the LCD-2.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> John, how's the comparison/ranking between those rectifiers you owned?




EML 5U4G, EML 274B, Mullard GZ37, Mullard GZ34, and TS 5U4G. The Mullard GZ37 is the best for the monies, I got mines at $125 a pair shipped and it is as good as the EML 274B.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I like the EML 5U4G with the Treasures as well, just with the HD800 not the LCD-2.


 


  I just swapped out the 6F8G with Treasures and give it a try later today.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, John. I found the EML 5U4G sound best also but no wonder the GZ37 will sound better than the more expensive GZ34. Your GZ37 is a steal, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got mine $300 plus shipping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT. Sorry for typo, the price I got is $200/pair for the GZ37 instead of $300 above.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> JC, I'll have to give this combo a try.  I want to put another 200 hours on Glenn's mods.  The sonics on the caps are shifting around as I put hours on them.


 
   
  Make sure you put in at least 50 hours on the TS 7236 to give it a fair try. 
  
   


  Quote: 





sesam said:


> Any opinions on how Shuguang Treasures compare sonically to Electro Harmonix Gold 6SN7 and Sophia/TJ Full Music 6SN7?. I have been using the Treasures since I bought the Amp, but I'm curious about other driver tubes
> 
> 
> Well a good DAC is essential, I consider the Cambridge Audio DacMagic one of the best purchases I have made. But I can't really give you much advice as I have never heard the M-Audio Firewire Solo, but I'm surprised to hear it's noisy that's not a sign of a good DAC


 

 The Treasures are the best tubes out of China, no comparison at all.
   
  X2 on DacMagic, I was really happy with it before I got my PWD.  It pair very well with WA6.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I just swapped out the 6F8G with Treasures and give it a try later today.


 

  Nice pic, I will try the Macroni later and let them run for longer burn-in.


  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The Treasures are the best tubes out of China, no comparison at all.


 


 How is the Treasure compare with other 6SN7, like TS RPBG? I was tempted to get a pair, their price are very reasonable for a matched pair.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks, John. I found the EML 5U4G sound best also but no wonder the GZ37 will sound better than the more expensive GZ34. Your GZ37 is a steal, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Did you get it from this guy?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-NOS-Mullard-CV378-GZ37-/290609894002?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a9b31272
   
  Unless there are more versions of GZ37 that I don't know.  The one I got look exactly like this one.
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Nice pic, I will try the Macroni later and let them run for longer burn-in.
> How is the Treasure compare with other 6SN7, like TS RPBG? I was tempted to get a pair, their price are very reasonable for a matched pair.


 

 No comparison at all, the TS RPBG is still my flavors along with TS 6F8G.


----------



## musicman59

dannie01 said:


> Nice pic, I will try the Macroni later and let them run for longer burn-in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I bought the Treasure CV181Z as part of the tubes upgrade when I ordered my WA5-LE.
I personally did not care that much for them. IMO they are ok but any of my old stock pairs are better so I sold them.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did you get it from this guy?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-NOS-Mullard-CV378-GZ37-/290609894002?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a9b31272
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry for the typo, I bought from this seller for $200/pair. Wow, I'm sweating if you mean the 6F8Gs are sound better than those TS RPBG. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I bought the Treasure CV181Z as part of the tubes upgrade when I ordered my WA5-LE.
> I personally did not care that much for them. IMO they are ok but any of my old stock pairs are better so I sold them.


 
  Thanks for your help to save some $, Jose.


----------



## Sesam

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> I've got the Treasures and the EH Gold 6SN7s....no comparison IMO. The Treasures are my favourite driver tubes that I currently own (even more so than my Sylvania 5692s). I do have a pair of VT-231 RCA (Smoked Glass) coming in next week...I'll report back when they arrive.


   
  Ok that's a shame, I was hoping those would have been a good current production alternative.
   
  Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Make sure you put in at least 50 hours on the TS 7236 to give it a fair try.
> 
> The Treasures are the best tubes out of China, no comparison at all.
> 
> X2 on DacMagic, I was really happy with it before I got my PWD.  It pair very well with WA6.


 
 How about these,
   
  Psvane CV181-T




   
  Beautiful but expensive :/, supposedly these are basically improved Treasures, 
   
  MINGDA MEIXING 6SN7




   
  These look rather funky, but maybe a bit too large to use safely on the WA22?


----------



## jerico

musicman59 said:


> I bought the Treasure CV181Z as part of the tubes upgrade when I ordered my WA5-LE.
> I personally did not care that much for them. IMO they are ok but any of my old stock pairs are better so I sold them.




I'm with you here - they don't do much for me, in my 22. Certainly not for the price.

Right now, funnily, I'm running all Sylvania tubes, and they sound really pleasing. And they didn't cost an arm and a leg either (I even like the 5U4GB better than my EML, and I got it for $5). Color me crazy, I guess!


----------



## jc9394

Not sure if it make a difference, i only paid $150 a pair shipped on the Treasures and they are the premium pair one. To me, they are better than few of the nos 6sn7 and 6f8g one but certainly not as good as the bgrp.


----------



## jc9394

sesam said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> macedonianhero said:
> ...




Never tried those but in this thread, someone tried and report they are not worth the money. Try the search function.


----------



## musicman59

I just set the 596 in my WA5-LE. So far I really like them. They make the sound very open, detailed, with very deep tuneful bass and big soundstage. I am using them with a pair of TS BGRP 6F8G and EML 300B Mesh.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just set the 596 in my WA5-LE. So far I really like them. They make the sound very open, detailed, with very deep tuneful bass and big soundstage. I am using them with a pair of TS BGRP 6F8G and EML 300B Mesh.


 
   
  Wow, great to know they sound good, Jose. Some pics please. I'm still waiting for the tubes and adadpters to arrive.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just set the 596 in my WA5-LE. So far I really like them. They make the sound very open, detailed, with very deep tuneful bass and big soundstage. I am using them with a pair of TS BGRP 6F8G and EML 300B Mesh.


 


  Scheduled delivery tomorrow - it's good to know the '596' landing on my doorstep will not become a doorstop!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I bought the Treasure CV181Z as part of the tubes upgrade when I ordered my WA5-LE.
> I personally did not care that much for them. IMO they are ok but any of my old stock pairs are better so I sold them.


 

 I agree, the CV181-Z is not my cup of tea in my WA5LE.
   
  I interesting what you are saying about your 596 tubes. Maybe later when I get done with tube rolling with my Liquid Fire I will try those tubes. Right now I am breaking in a Quad set of nos Siemens E88CC=CCa (early 60's) in this case the Holy Grail of 6922 tubes.


----------



## grokit

In my WA22 I didn't like the Treasures much the first time I tried them, I think it was because I had them paired with my TS 5998 (CBS-Hytron 2399) power tubes. I liked them much better the second time around, this time with my Sylvania 7236 power tubes. They also sound good with the TS 7236, just slightly better with the Sylvanias.


----------



## Silent One

_Currently in between lunch & tea..._
   
  ... and in idle thought. With the wide variety of values and variables, moods and music, Tube Rolling often reminds me of Chess.


----------



## Silent One

_At last!_
   
  Just took delivery of my 596 w/adapter! And work prevents me from installing (playing around) at this time. Late tonight, will shoot a pix and attempt an out-of-the-box impression.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Tube Rolling often reminds me of Chess.


 


  With an even more unpredictable end-game.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _At last!_
> 
> Just took delivery of my 596 w/adapter! And work prevents me from installing (playing around) at this time. Late tonight, will shoot a pix and attempt an out-of-the-box impression.


 

 Looking forward to pictures and tales.


----------



## musicman59

Here are pictures of the 596 in my WA5-LE. It looks like a piece of equipment in a mad scientist lab. I guess I will call it my Dr. Woo-kenstein lab piece.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Here are pictures of the 596 in my WA5-LE. It looks like a piece of equipment in a mad scientist lab. I guess I will call it my Dr. Woo-kenstein lab piece.


 


  I'm not sure about the state of Michigan. But in California, a wife can cite Irreconcilable Differences as opposed to listing Vacuum Tubes as grounds for divorce.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's a nice shot at power being on display!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Looking forward to pictures and tales.


 


  As long as these tales don't involve any DACs... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Man, it's going to be at least six hours before I can get isolated inside the listening room; growing restless! One observation I just made, and this is due to how Woo Audio aligns the Teflon sockets inside the WA6SE, but my 596 and antennae leads are positioned crooked. Those of you with WA5/LE's & WA22's, the 596 sits more front and center, with a lead wire on either side. Mine will sit with a lead wire at 7 o'clock & 1 o'clock.
   
  I know I know.... it's the sound that matters. But it took nearly all of my first year of ownership to get use to the wayward facing Sophia Princess and EML Glass!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Truth be told, once I "Deoxit" tonight, nuthin' else will matter.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm not sure about the state of Michigan. But in California, a wife can cite Irreconcilable Differences as opposed to listing Vacuum Tubes as grounds for divorce.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I am fortunate, my wife is very understanding of my hobbies and passions (she is at the top of them) that is why I am heading to the RMAF this weekend too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am fortunate, my wife is very understanding of my hobbies and passions (she is at the top of them) that is why I am heading to the RMAF this weekend too.


 


  You've a wonderful partner.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> In my WA22 I didn't like the Treasures much the first time I tried them, I think it was because I had them paired with my TS 5998 (CBS-Hytron 2399) power tubes. I liked them much better the second time around, this time with my Sylvania 7236 power tubes. They also sound good with the TS 7236, just slightly better with the Sylvanias.


 
   
   
   

   
   
   
   


 Absolutely agreed. With my Sylvania 7236s (or even TS7236s), I really like the Treasures...but with my TS5998s, I prefer my Sylvania 5692s. Talk about a finicky amp.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As long as these tales don't involve any DACs...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   If you take a picture of the 5U4 socket so I can see the orientation of the key way. I can make you a new adapter so the wires come out the back and the anode connectors
    are on the right and left. Then we can exchange them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> If you take a picture of the 5U4 socket so I can see the orientation of the key way. I can make you a new adapter so the wires come out the back and the anode connectors
> are on the right and left. Then we can exchange them.


 

  
  That would be great! The key way points to high noon. First listen will likely come at 2200 - 2300 hrs...
   
   

   

   
   
   
  Post Script: Will stay with the adapter I have currently ~
   
  Glenn, after sitting in with the '596' I have grown to like its character facing the way it does (such is life). _Sitting at 45 degrees, you'd think it's aware of the paparazzi!  _


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hmmm.  I was getting really tempted by all this 596 talk, but it looks like you guys have snatched them all up off ebay!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just as well, since I have my doubts the tube physically works in the WA6 due to its width.  I'm more than content with the GZ33 anyway, which I've decided I like better than my EML274B overall.  I'm trying to break the idea that I have to buy a backup as soon as I find a tube I like, because its expensive to fuel such paranoia and the Mullards have a reputation for being very hearty and long lived.  I can't help but fear, though, that if I find myself needing one a few years from now it will no longer be possible to find one.
   
  I've gone through nearly every 6SN7 driver tube I have with it now except for the BGRP (still considering it).  The National Unions were more of a fluke than anything, since no other tube had such a Jekyll and Hyde sort of reaction the way they did.  Not every tube became more dynamic and lively either, which was another interesting surprise.  The way it broke down more or less is like so:
   
  Tubes I thought sounded better on the GZ33 vs. the EML274B overall:
  - National Union Blackglass 6SN7GT
  - Sylvania Chrome Dome 6SN7GT
  - Sylvania 6SN7W
   
  Tubes I thought were more or less a wash overall:
  - Raytheon VT231 ladder plate
  - Brimar 6SN7GTY
  - Sylvania "Bad Boy" 6SN7GT
  - Sylvania 6SN7GTA
   
  Tubes I thought sounded worse:
  - RCA VT231 Greyglass
  - Tung Sol 6SN7GT Mouse Ear
   
  In the case of the Mouse Ear and the Greyglass both tubes sounded dull on the GZ33.  The Tung Sol was the biggest surprise with a strongly subdued top end where as these tubes usually are pretty bright and sparkly up top.  It shifted the focus into the lower mids, but something about the overall balance felt off.  The Greyglass just came across as veiled and lazy sounding, which was totally not what I was expecting.
   
  For the tubes in the middle group, there was always something gained and something lost which ended up balancing out.  Well, except for the Raytheons which sounded nearly identical to how they behave on the EML except for a slightly more pulled in soundstage.  The Syl GTAs improved considerably, but gained a harsh glare in the upper mids that was hard to look past.  The Brimars didn't sound that different, but again they sounded more forceful in the upper mids, so the small gain in focus wasn't really worth it.  I think I like this tube better with the Brimar 5R4GY.  The Bad Boys have their bass tighten up quite a bit, something they really need in my experience.  It also sharpens their transient response and makes them less romantic sounding.  But this is a double edged sword, because when you take that romanticism away they don't really feel special anymore.  I found myself a little bored listening to them, desperately wanting to roll the Chome Domes in in their place.
   
  As for the winners, the Syl W's simply improve all around.  Bass gets faster and tighter, the veil is lifted for the most part, and they display the big lively sound they are known for.  I found the treble a little more peaky than usual, but the other gains make it worth dealing with.
   
  The National Unions, like I wrote about before, sound radically different.  They absolutely come alive, with huge powerful bass that grabs your attention and big bold dynamics.  The sound is rich and vivid without sounding overdone or or exaggerated in any one area.  I like the NUs when they are a laid back and romantic tube, but I love them like this.  A new favorite pairing for me.  Finally, the Chrome Domes, which I love anyway, gain a little more of everything on the GZ33.  The soundstage even grows wider, which was surprising.  My only gripe about this tube, that it has light bass, is not a problem here.  It has quantity and weight to go with the amazing speed and drive it always had before.  Everything sounds true to life, with a "your are in front of the recording microphone" sort of realism.  They pick up a very slight unwanted edginess in the low treble range, but nothing that can't be forgiven.  The only bad thing I noted was that their tonal balance doesn't feel as uncolored and neutral on the GZ33, there is definitely a flavor there now even if it is subtle. 
   
  So far the Chrome Dome + GZ33 combo is the most lifelike sound I have ever gotten from my amp.  I wasn't going to try the Tung Sol round plates before, but now I think I'll have to.  The most consistent improvement was in bass speed and drive.  Neither of these things are strong points of the EML 274B, and because of this I think if I ever have to replace it I will go with an EML 5U4G next time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Hmmm.  I was getting really tempted by all this 596 talk, but it looks like you guys have snatched them all up off ebay!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I really like the way you lend your thoughts to this thread; forum, Xcalibur255! Time/money prevents me from trying a lot of tubes mentioned in this space. But contributors like you separating the wheat from the chaff makes the experience more manageable.
   
  Currently in session with the '596'... (hour 2). Hope to return a comment or two on the other side of Midnight.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That would be great! The key way points to high noon. First listen will likely come at 2200 - 2300 hrs...


 

  
   
  those pics kinda make me wish i gotten the black WA6SE lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> those pics kinda make me wish i gotten the black WA6SE lol


 


  For me, there's nuthin' quite like the absence of color! I love the way it frames things, objects and people (are audiophiles real people?). While I do love color and silver has its place, all of the former may move you but only back will stop your heart mid-beat!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I have better rez fotos but was in a hurry with that particular shot, as Glenn is on the East coast.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> those pics kinda make me wish i gotten the black WA6SE lol


 


  When I move to the WA22, whenever that happens, it will be in black.  Much as I like silver on my WA6 (and how it hides dust), there is something about black with the right tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

So..... I gave in and threw the black glass tung sols in the amp.  Listening to them right now.
   
  They are still the king.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So many thoughts come to mind while listening, and then I lose most of them when it comes time to share.  The one thing that dominates my impression of these tubes is that they simply deliver more of the music to you.  Things you don't hear with other tubes are right there for you to pick up on with these.  I'm not sure if they really gain or lose anything on the GZ33 vs. the EML 274B since the last time they were in the amp was probably half a year ago, but if I can trust my memory they sound very similar.  I seem to remember them having more bass than this, which runs contrary to my experience with most of the other tubes and the GZ33, but there is no arguing with the quality and tunefulness.
   
  VS the Chome Domes...... the Sylvanias give up nothing to the Tung Sols for clarity or detail.  For fast attack and dynamics the Chrome Domes are actually superior, and the initial attack of most notes sounds crisper.  I also think the Sylvanias have better attack and tautness in the bass, if only ever so slightly.  Both tubes are great at this, so I only mention it because it is just barely detectable as a difference.  What I feel the Tung Sols do is deliver more nuances and texture.  With the Tung Sols there is a gentleness to the sound that de-emphasises transients in favor of the body and reverb that follows without sacrificing a single bit of the clarity brought by the transient itself.   The Chrome Domes on the other hand lend focus to transients, making everything sound faster and crisper.  If a guitar string pluck on the Chrome Domes is a very rapid transition from black to white, then it is a slightly slower shift from black to white with many shades of grey during the moment in between on the Tung Sols.  After listening to the Tung Sols, what I was hearing from all the other tubes doesn't quite sound real...... as if they were only really telling about 80% of the story of the timbre of each instruments' note.
   
  I had this thought though:  every song I listen to on the Tung Sols gives me this feeling like I've never really heard that song before until that moment.  As if I'd never really heard it played back correctly until I heard it on these tubes.  They just seem to capture more of what makes music seem real and convey that to the listener.  I'm at a loss to explain the effect in words better than that I'm afraid.
   
  I count myself very fortunate to be able to own a pair of these tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Thought I'd be a little less bad about posting pictures for once.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So..... I gave in and threw the black glass tung sols in the amp.  Listening to them right now.
> 
> They are still the king.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes that is my thinking also, the TSRP oval mica from the early 40's are the best over all 6SN7GT's. And not only do I have a matched nos set in my WA5LE but I also have a second matched nos set date code 9/42 of flawless 6SN7GT (USN) TSRP oval plates that have never been used, both sets in there original boxes and with the USN stamp of approval on the boxes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have given up on buying (about 16 months ago) from just anybody that says there tubes are NOS and matched, I only will buy from the very top rated tube sellers that give me all the test results and make sure that what I get are really NOS not just because the test results are equal to what is said to be NOS test results. All the NOS tubes I have gotten test well about the standard NOS test results, and that really does make a difference.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Thought I'd be a little less bad about posting pictures for once.


 


  This photograph will become inspiration to many... all because you decided to post.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I may eventually get there (TSRP-BG).


----------



## Xcalibur255

Honestly the only reason I have them was because I took it to 110% so to speak.  They are somewhat mismatched in a mere WA6, but I was thinking to the future when I did it.  I have far more limited means than most of the people who dabble in high end tubes on Head Fi, but all my life I've found a way to make it happen when something is important to me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Honestly the only reason I have them was because I took it to 110% so to speak.  They are somewhat mismatched in a mere WA6, but I was thinking to the future when I did it.  I have far more limited means than most of the people who dabble in high end tubes on Head Fi, but all my life I've found a way to make it happen when something is important to me.


 

 x2
   
  Same here, without a doubt! Our fortunes will change soon enough. What helps temper me is my past - working in home and car audio gave me access to a lot of high-end stuff that I could take home and use and never buy. Working CES and other E-shows... a fun fun time during college!
   
  Since I find myself into computer audio I realize that my money would be better spent first improving and isolating quality power to the system. I'm aiming to put my Mac on a LiFePO4 battery diet. The entire rig when I return to work, actually... off the grid I say!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But of course, it will take some $$$.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Absolutely agreed. With my Sylvania 7236s (or even TS7236s), I really like the Treasures...but with my TS5998s, I prefer my Sylvania 5692s. Talk about a finicky amp.


 
   
   
  X2, I do not like the Treasures with any 6080 and 6AS7G tubes I have.  It only sounds great with TS 7236 to me.  Even the EMLs with Treasures sound a little off compare to GZ34 and GZ37.


----------



## xinque

Got my headphone stand and WA5 extended umbilical today.  Also came with a flyer for Woo Audio's new amp, the WA-234 MONO.  Didn't see it posted in the other thread or linked on the main Woo site yet, so might be of interest for those of us not making it to RMAF this weekend:
   
  http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa234mono/
   
  Makes me wonder how big these keys are, if there's actual circuity in them or if it just connects a circuit inside of the amp.  Judging from the sketch I'd imagine it something akin to plugging in control rods into a reactor..


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Got my headphone stand and WA5 extended umbilical today.


 

 How long and how much?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

_WA22 has arrived!!!_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pics plz!


----------



## Silent One

USAF-596
  United Electronics Company 1957
   
_I found my backup! Or did I?_
   
  So, what do I think? After a 9 hour investment (5 hrs/Raytheon 6SN7WGT-1949; 1 hr interlude; 3 hrs RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass) I think I want more! Tonight, we're starting early!!! No in-depth comments just yet, but would like to share a comment or two.
   
  First, I'd like to salute Clayton SF for a fantastic find! And 2359glenn for providing both feedback and the wherewithal to get goin'. Also, prior to last night, my Woo had been idle since 30 September - been swingin' with the Pioneer system since I was prepping the Woo for new photos and listing for sale. And I jumped in after only a 30 minute warm-up, a far cry fro the usual one to three hour warm-up.
   
  Once I saw Clayton's photographs and mention of the '596' I decided to put everything on hold until I could hear this tube. I was close to accepting his invite to come over but I couldn' get free from my responsibilities. So, I ordered from Glenn right away! After rifling through the music library last night, it became clear I won't be listing my Woo... until at least 2012.
   
  I share similar findings with previous posters about the '596' sounding more open, tuneful bass, organic sounding and so on. This tube produces a beautiful sound but it is not without incident. 
   
  The EML Glass was on the sidelines awaiting preliminary scores to come back from the '596.' When, apparently for no reason (my head was turned away for only a moment), the '596' reached out and smacked the (edit) out of the EML!!! The threat of being replaced is real for tubes and people alike. Was it something the 5U4G said?
   
  The 5U4G still has its place inside the Woo, but I think I will reverse the roles for awhile and now make the '596' the primary rec. And roll driver tubes in and out 'till year-end and see what happens. 
   
  On the very first track ("Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr.), I noticed right away that the '596' sounded more open, detailed with a bit more depth. And that vocals and some pianos sounded more organic, less slick production wise. Of course, all of this is recording dependent. My W4S DAC-1 throws a wide sound stage to being with. Paired with the '596' and the room doesn't necessarily get any bigger/wider than the EML. But it's as if there has been some furnishings removed from the room allowing notes to become better distinguished, trail & decay. 
   
  One track down, I was sitting up with interest. But it wasn't until track two that I realized how organic this tube sounds - "Golden Girl" - Al Jarreau... wow! Half way into the track I nearly mistook my labored breaths as being part of the background material. Removing the cans for just a hot second, I quickly realized it was just me in ll my excitement!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Third came Angela Bofill's "I Try." I would not be surprised if the next time I flush my ears (Debrox) I discover traces of honey in the sink.
   
  My Wireworld Eclipse 6 interconnects allow for some really nice timbre with this tube. Pace, rhythm & timing? This tube swings! A wonderful and musical presentation. However, it is early... the sound signature ain't hittin' hard like I wanna hear, percussion strikes among them (slam!). And there are some tracks in my library where the EML sounds better to me. But, the '596' is holding down my mutli-faceted and diverse library with  higher scoring averages across genres.
   
  And then there's the shifting of instruments and lower or higher levels of gain. Sometimes better, worse or no difference. I hear this whether it's the rectifier or driver tube. For example, playing a track and listening to background instrumentation/vocals you might hear the detail at a certain volume. Then switching rectifiers/tubes, you might hear the same detail push further into the background or become more prominent. Based on my listening preferences, this could completely throw my liking for a particular track OUT! Or draw me in to liking it more. Or simply no change in taste, just different.
   
  I have a whole lot more listening to do with the '596.' What's not yet known is, after 200-500 hours, what will it sound like? If I like it now, and I really do, I could be in for a pleasant surprise. And by no means will I be leaving the EML out on the curb for weekly pick-up. I'm just embarking on a new adventure.
   
  Someone with a revealing front-end that returns an uber low noise floor, like mikemalter's Bryston BDP-1, ought to be down right tickled with a tube like the USAF-596! What, I didn't mention the price?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> _WA22 has arrived!!!_


 

 Shoot it!!! Congrats on your entry. But when you've the chance... (+2).


----------



## Szadzik

Mine got delivered yesterday.
   
  Fedex's service was a total disaster though. First they tried to deliver at my home address and there was no one in there. I called them and they suggested I change the address and send it to someone who will be home. I did. They said it would be delivered on Monday. It was Friday last week. They did not deliver it on Monday and when I called them they said that when redirecting there is always a delay - no one told me about that on Friday. Someone wasted a day waiting for them at home.
  I talked to a manager and she promised the parcel would be delivered on Tuesday. At 9pm on Tuesday they logged an exception saying no one was home - but someone was. They said they would investigate and call me back - never did. Went out for delivery yesterday and 3rd day in a row someone wasted the whole day waiting for them. Never showed up. 
  This morning I got an email saying it was delivered and left at the reception desk - there is not one where I sent it - neither at my address, nor at my friend's address. 
  At the moment I cannot be sure where they delivered it and the only thing that comes to mind is my old workplace I left over a year ago, my flatmate still works there. 
   
  Having spent 2 hours on the phone with Fedex (will have to call them again to find out where they delivered it) I am not even sure I want to unpack the amp and use it. I am so fed up with it. I just hope that using it will make me ultra happy, otherwise it will be on the For Sale forum in minutes.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> _WA22 has arrived!!!_


 


 Sweet.  What color?  Silver or dust magnet?  What tubes?  What are your sources?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> USAF-596
> United Electronics Company 1957
> 
> _I found my backup! Or did I?_
> ...


 

 This is really interesting.  The 596 sounds better than the EML.  It has to be on my next to do item.  Got the rest of this week and next week to finishing breaking in V-Caps.  But then, I'm going to want to hear this.  Thanks a lot for posting your thoughts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Mine got delivered yesterday.
> 
> Fedex's service was a total disaster though. First they tried to deliver at my home address and there was no one in there. I called them and they suggested I change the address and send it to someone who will be home. I did. They said it would be delivered on Monday. It was Friday last week. They did not deliver it on Monday and when I called them they said that when redirecting there is always a delay - no one told me about that on Friday. Someone wasted a day waiting for them at home.
> I talked to a manager and she promised the parcel would be delivered on Tuesday. At 9pm on Tuesday they logged an exception saying no one was home - but someone was. They said they would investigate and call me back - never did. Went out for delivery yesterday and 3rd day in a row someone wasted the whole day waiting for them. Never showed up.
> ...


 


  I am disturbed; saddened by your experience. Especially since you are doing what you can but continue to get let down by other's actions. It's very difficult sometimes to conduct business away from home. It's good to know that, while disappointed, you're staying positive as one could be.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> This is really interesting.  The 596 sounds better than the EML.  It has to be on my next to do item.  Got the rest of this week and next week to finishing breaking in V-Caps.  But then, I'm going to want to hear this.  Thanks a lot for posting your thoughts.


 


  I'm with you, it's a very good idea not to introduce too many changes at once. This way, you'll have a better idea of what's happened, what's developing and what you could use more of or less of in your sound signature. But @ $15 a pop!....


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I am disturbed; saddened by your experience. Especially since you are doing what you can but continue to get let down by other's actions. It's very difficult sometimes to conduct business away from home. It's good to know that, while disappointed, you're staying positive as one could be.


 


  The fact that I am going home very soon is the most positive of all so I can only be happy


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> USAF-596
> United Electronics Company 1957
> 
> * * * * *
> ...


 

 Well, gosh thanks. But I must clarify one thing: Glenn (2359glenn) should be given the credit for the 596's _fantastic find._ I merely searched and found a photo of the 596 tube after his mention of it in this tread inciting a buying frenzy on eBay. So, thank you, Glenn for finding the 596 tube and "providing both feedback and the wherewithal"... and footwork ..."to get goin'."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well, gosh thanks. But I must clarify one thing: Glenn (2359glenn) should be given the credit for the 596's _fantastic find._ I merely searched and found a photo of the 596 tube after his mention of it in this tread inciting a buying frenzy on eBay. So, thank you, Glenn for finding the 596 tube and "providing both feedback and the wherewithal"... and footwork ..."to get goin'."


 


  Truly a collaborative effort on both your parts - I'm fat & happy!




  Just concluded my second overnight session with the rectifier and I must say, I can't believe how big the sound is! Looking for a tube that can shovel a bit? The USAF-596 returns micro details like lunch at a busy Manhattan Deli! I'm hearing details I ain't yet heard in CD's I've been listening to for years. And if that ain't enough, the '596' threw a couple of deep bass notes for the D7000's to fetch and the Denons went down and got 'em like a golden retriever.
   
  Further, in the second session I used two different software players for the Mac - Pure Music & Audirvana. Both in "Hog mode" with "Integer stream output." To date, it seems like the '596' has a very thin veil covering in its sound signature, no immediate cause for concern, just paying attention. Something that may easily disappear as the tube burns and blossoms over the next two weeks, easily ( I hope). Very excited about what could come next toward the first 100-200 hours (currently sitting at 13 hrs).


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well, gosh thanks. But I must clarify one thing: Glenn (2359glenn) should be given the credit for the 596's _fantastic find._ I merely searched and found a photo of the 596 tube after his mention of it in this tread inciting a buying frenzy on eBay. So, thank you, Glenn for finding the 596 tube and "providing both feedback and the wherewithal"... and footwork ..."to get goin'."


 


  I found this tube after Dannie's EML blew up and wanted to find a tube that will hold up in WOOs power supplies. Really for the WA5 that has the two 5U4 filaments in series
   and 5U4s were not made to run this way. So I found this tube that was only made for the military with strict standards so all the filaments were the same resistance.
      The fact that they sound better then a EML is a much added bonus.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I found this tube after Dannie's EML blew up and wanted to find a tube that will hold up in WOOs power supplies. Really for the WA5 that has the two 5U4 filaments in series
> and 5U4s were not made to run this way. So I found this tube that was only made for the military with strict standards so all the filaments were the same resistance.
> The fact that they sound better then a EML is a much added bonus.


 


  A salute to 2359glenn! What a bonus indeed! Good to know you've high standards, Glenn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 _"Go Blue! (USAF)_




  I can now go to bed until Noon with a smile across my face. The last track played an hour ago - "Chameleon" by Herbie Hancock. It's still lingering quite nicely... 
   
  Sorry my fortune came at the hands of your misfortune, Dannie. But Glenn will get you right!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Here are pictures of the 596 in my WA5-LE. It looks like a piece of equipment in a mad scientist lab. I guess I will call it my Dr. Woo-kenstein lab piece.


 

 black look real nice.  musicman, you still like wa5 with t1?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> black look real nice.  musicman, you still like wa5 with t1?


 


  Yes. My two favorite headphones with my WA5-LE are the T1 and the HD800, Both are recabled with the Zeus cable.
  It all depends on the mood I am. If I want to relax I will listen to the HD800 but if I want more punch in the sound than go with the T1. IMO both are excellent match with the WA5-LE.


----------



## fhuang

if i'm going to get wa5, that would make me look like i'm following you .  first i have rp010b and now wa5.  i'm still thinking(read: saving) though.  at least one guy(you musicman) like this combo.  should be either this or eddie current balancing act.  i don't remember t1 fan like the ba though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

would a WA6SE be a good amp for hd 800/t1/lcd-2?
   
  i might have a little extra income this next month, meaning another headphone purchase


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Sweet.  What color?  Silver or dust magnet?  What tubes?  What are your sources?


 


 I got Black, had Silver last time with the Woo 6 SE but it was just too much metal looking and Black matches my furniture. 
   
  I bought it with the premium tubes. Tried out the stock tubes last night, but didn't like the sound at all. Bass was very flabby and flat, sound kind of bloated. The premium tubes sound very good with balanced HD650 but only so-so with Grados.
   
  My current source is Audio-GD NFB-10ES, sabre based dac. I like it very much.
   
  Will post some pics later tonight, tried last night but lighting was very poor.


----------



## musicman59

dubstep girl said:


> would a WA6SE be a good amp for hd 800/t1/lcd-2?
> 
> i might have a little extra income this next month, meaning another headphone purchase



IMO all three will need to be recabled with a good OCC copper cable to sound their best.
Since you already have the HD650 I would go with the T1 or LCD-2. Later I would sell the 650 to upgrade to the 800


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i've been strongly considering the LCD-2, but the T1 seems like it would suit my taste better, its apparantly more musical than the hd 800 but at a slight loss of soundstage/detail.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> IMO all three will need to be recabled with a good OCC copper cable to sound their best.
> Since you already have the HD650 I would go with the T1 or LCD-2. Later I would sell the 650 to upgrade to the 800


 

 I might have to come visit you, very nice Woooooooo


----------



## Icenine2

LCD3's just announced about an hour ago.
   
https://audeze.com/audez%E2%80%99e-debuts-%E2%80%9Creality-1%E2%80%9D-planar-magnetic-professional-reference-monitor-and-audeze-lcd-3


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i've been strongly considering the LCD-2, but the T1 seems like it would suit my taste better, its apparantly more musical than the hd 800 but at a slight loss of soundstage/detail.


 


  The LCD-2 should do very well given the output power of the SE.  Many people have noted that the T1 and the WA2 have extremely good synergy together, and I'd imagine the HD800 does well also due to the high impedance and the WA2's OTL design.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> LCD3's just announced about an hour ago.
> 
> https://audeze.com/audez%E2%80%99e-debuts-%E2%80%9Creality-1%E2%80%9D-planar-magnetic-professional-reference-monitor-and-audeze-lcd-3


 


  Already?  They just did the LCD-2 rev.2 a few months ago.  It will probably be a statement headphone and come in at 2 grand.


----------



## KZCloud89

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Already?  They just did the LCD-2 rev.2 a few months ago.  It will probably be a statement headphone and come in *at 2 grand*.


 


 Oh my goodness!!!!


----------



## musicman59

dubstep girl said:


> i've been strongly considering the LCD-2, but the T1 seems like it would suit my taste better, its apparantly more musical than the hd 800 but at a slight loss of soundstage/detail.



It all depends on how you define "musical". To me both are musical in their own way.
The HD800 I call them more relaxed and refined while the T1 I will call them more fun and aggressive. I personally prefer the soundstage of the HD800 but if I want to jam then I go to the T1.

Even that the LCD-2 are relatively efficient for planars based on my test they really need power to reach their full potential. IMO there was a big difference in sound when I drove them with a speakers amp then with my Woo or Rudi.


----------



## Silent One

Silent Notes --
   
  With the recent activity of new ownership in this thread, I'd like to encourage sharing new pix of your amps and their place inside your listening rooms. Periodically, when I swap in new tubes I'll turn off the lights to appreciate their glow. When I did so last night the room was pitch dark. Save that brilliant and glaring voltage readout from the Monster PowerCenter. Can one ever have their cake and eat it too? The RCA Grey Glass/USAF-596 combo is dark! I find the glow of a vacuum tube amplifier to be very soothing. The Raytheon's should provide me with at least of taste of that cake... or glow in this case.
   
  Click for higher resolution.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It seems like some of the best tubes put on some of the worst light shows I've noticed.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Silent Notes --
> 
> With the recent activity of new ownership in this thread, I'd like to encourage sharing new pix of your amps and their place inside your listening rooms. Periodically, when I swap in new tubes I'll turn off the lights to appreciate their glow. When I did so last night the room was pitch dark. Save that brilliant and glaring voltage readout from the Monster PowerCenter. Can one ever have their cake and eat it too? The RCA Grey Glass/USAF-596 combo is dark! I find the glow of a vacuum tube amplifier to be very soothing. The Raytheon's should provide me with at least of taste of that cake... or glow in this case.
> 
> Click for higher resolution.


 

 I so need to clean off my amp.  I'll do a little reorging and post my current setup.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It seems like some of the best tubes put on some of the worst light shows I've noticed.


 


  The glow is alluring... and one of its attractions. Very calming, I might add. Sometimes, if I'm having an extended session from 4 to 9 hours, I'll get up and break for an hour. Standing or moving about in the same room or the very next room over. With the lights off or dimmed, my return into the room is always met with seduction - I love looking at the glow.
   
  But, as you pointed out...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I so need to clean off my amp.  I'll do a little reorging and post my current setup.


 


  You must! I'm trying to encourage the newcomers to light up this thread with _never-before-seen photographs! _And for long-time owners to give  us an update.


----------



## xinque

I noticed on my first couple of pics the glow doesn't really 'glow' that much unless you fiddle around with the editors.  Then again, I just have a crappy point & shoot.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You must! I'm trying to encourage the newcomers to light up this thread with _never-before-seen photographs! _And for long-time owners to give  us an update.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> I noticed on my first couple of pics the glow doesn't really 'glow' that much unless you fiddle around with the editors.  Then again, I just have a crappy point & shoot.


 


  Is your P&S a Canon by chance? I ask because I use a software hack that gives the PoweShot the ability to keep the shutter open for 60-90 seconds mimicking a manual DSLR.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Is your P&S a Canon by chance? I ask because I use a software hack that gives the PoweShot the ability to keep the shutter open for 60-90 seconds mimicking a manual DSLR.


 


 Hey I have a Canon P&S, what's that software called?
   
  Please excuse the off-topic discussion.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Hey I have a Canon P&S, what's that software called?
> 
> Please excuse the off-topic discussion.


 

 Please don't tease me or tempt me.  Fingers stop typing, NOW


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Hey I have a Canon P&S, what's that software called?
> 
> Please excuse the off-topic discussion.


 


  Can't be TOO off topic if it's your means to getting your Woo displayed on this page. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's been a while, will search for my bookmark and send you a PM. What model do you have by the way? 
   
  Post Script:
   
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_in_Brief


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Canon S95


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Canon S95


 


  Illumination by street light only --
   
  In the following example, I took an early morning stroll before sunrise and stopped under a dark canopy of trees. I set the Canon down on the ground to manual exposure for 15 seconds, letting in enough light making it appear as if this was shot during the day; was completely dark out. This software will give you the ability to capture the filaments of your tubes mid-glow. In the second photograph, I shot a dark side street just before Midnight with a 60 second shutter on the Canon (PowerShot SD870 IS).


----------



## MacedonianHero

So after about 10 days with my Sylvania brown base 5692s (marked GE), I have to say...wow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great bass definition, slam, control and detail. The mids are in no way recessed and the treble is well extended without being bright. I absolutely love them with my LCD-2s. They aren't as quiet as the Treasures (but then again, these are among they are most quiet 6SN7 variants I've heard/owned).
   
  I paid $69 shipped....and next to the Treasures (paid $229), they are a steal! But I've seen them (brown base Sylvania 5692s) go for as high as $180 for a matched pair.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> So after about 10 days with my Sylvania brown base 5692s (marked GE), I have to say...wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Attributes like those have me in hot pursuit!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Attributes like those have me in hot pursuit!


 


  If you can score them for $80-100 for a pair...a heck of a deal.
   
  Thetubestore has them, but a bit too pricey:
   
  http://thetubestore.com/nos56browbas.html


----------



## xinque

$150 for 36"
   
  Not sure if the umbilical needs burn-in?
   
  Now with RMAF around the corner I'm on the fence again between getting a pair of ECC32, TS BGRP, or an LCD-2/3.  A new headphone is a new headphone, but I imagine those tubes are becoming mighty scarce.
  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> How long and how much?


----------



## xinque

Amateur photography hour:


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> LCD3's just announced about an hour ago.
> 
> https://audeze.com/audez%E2%80%99e-debuts-%E2%80%9Creality-1%E2%80%9D-planar-magnetic-professional-reference-monitor-and-audeze-lcd-3


 


  Link not working.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Link not working.


 


  try this
   
https://audeze.com/audez%E2%80%99e-debuts-%E2%80%9Creality-1%E2%80%9D-planar-magnetic-professional-reference-monitor-and-audeze-lcd-3-0


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> try this
> 
> https://audeze.com/audez%E2%80%99e-debuts-%E2%80%9Creality-1%E2%80%9D-planar-magnetic-professional-reference-monitor-and-audeze-lcd-3-0


 


  Thank's that works.


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> With the recent activity of new ownership in this thread, I'd like to encourage sharing new pix of your amps and their place inside your listening rooms.



TS5998s and W4S Dac-1 will arrive by the end of next week hopefully (mini-meet the 23rd). I'll get a pic of the listening space once the new equipment arrives.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Illumination by street light only --
> 
> In the following example, I took an early morning stroll before sunrise and stopped under a dark canopy of trees. I set the Canon down on the ground to manual exposure for 15 seconds, letting in enough light making it appear as if this was shot during the day; was completely dark out. This software will give you the ability to capture the filaments of your tubes mid-glow. In the second photograph, I shot a dark side street just before Midnight with a 60 second shutter on the Canon (PowerShot SD870 IS).


 

 Wow, very nice shots! I'm still a novice and need to learn how to use my camera.
   
  These are some quick shots I took just this morning, they're really not anything special and probably look better on the Woo website. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Don't mind the dust over there.
   

   
  I received the 596 tube today along with Glenn's adapter too. So far, I've only tried it on the Taboo, but I've got to agree; it's a very nice find! Definitely belongs in the same class as the Sophia.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grr i should of gotten my wa6se in black lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> grr i should of gotten my wa6se in black lol


 


  Dubstep Girl, after hearing good music and reaching a state of reverie, it won't even matter.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Wow, very nice shots! I'm still a novice and need to learn how to use my camera.
> 
> These are some quick shots I took just this morning, they're really not anything special and probably look better on the Woo website.
> 
> ...


 


  Love your set up! In the top photograph, is the Woo sitting beside a mirror or do you have an endless array of tube amps? Just realized it's your 'Taboo' (tired eyes).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> TS5998s and W4S Dac-1 will arrive by the end of next week hopefully (mini-meet the 23rd). I'll get a pic of the listening space once the new equipment arrives.


 

 Very nice, Draygonn. What's striking to me is Woo Audio's entire family of amps look beautiful. Some manufacturers have that signature model (or a few) and then there's that odd step-model looking like it doesn't belong in the line up. I appreciate that Woo Audio puts thought into their design and presentation. Can't wait for you to get your W4S box...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice WA22 and WA2, heres my WA6SE again just for comparison 
  i feel like maybe the WA2 would of been another good amp to try out, seems very underrated i think, looks quite impressive as well. its warmer than the wa6se which really doesn't sound tube-ish at all right?
   

   
   
   finally taking the time to check out all the new CDs coming out 
  listened to the new evanescence CD just a while ago with my SR325is, love it, kinda loud but so much energy in the music, really made my day lol.
   
  now i'm currently listening to bjork's new CD as well on my k701s, i'm finally noticing the K701's impressive imaging and soundstage on some of the songs like "solstice", "crystalline",
 "hollow (original 7 min version)", and "mutual core". as for the detail, its as impressive as ever. highs sound very natural and near perfect. mids are awesome as always, and the bass on some of these songs really comes out on the k701s,  the neutral but extremely textured and clean bass the k701s have is perfect for this type of music. definitely worth the listen 
   
  .the point? Woo audio is awesome, and the k701/WA6SE combo is amazing!!! <3


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very nice WA22 and WA2, heres my WA6SE again just for comparison
> i feel like maybe the WA2 would of been another good amp to try out, seems very underrated i think, looks quite impressive as well. its warmer than the wa6se which really doesn't sound tube-ish at all right?
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Your ensemble does Woo Audio proud! And worthy of Wallpaper!!! I've heard some express really good thoughts about the k701 with the right pairing. Have not heard them yet but I am curious... now even more so after your comment.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your ensemble does Woo Audio proud! I've heard some express really good thoughts about the k701 with the right pairing. Have not heard them yet but I am curious... now even more so after your comment.


 


  lol thanks, i think you should really try them out. based on the headphones you have in your inventory, i think the k701s would really offer a way different experience and complement the wa6se nicely. 
   
  i find i still enjoy my hd 650s, but often switch to k701/grado now since they sound so good. 
   
  on my older amp, the k701 where ok but sometimes tended to sound boring and lifeless, the grado sounded better but where grainy and too bright at times. 
   
  i think the tubes help, while the WA6SE isn't very tube sounding, it definitely helps mellow out the highs and make the sound more natural on the ks and smooths out the  grados nicely while still preserving their original qualities (k701 detail/soundstage + grado sound signature). i think thats the magic with the woo amps, it improves and maintains the qualities you enjoy from your cans, so its not really coloring the sound but rather, perfecting it.


----------



## Silent One

_Trouble inside his listening room!_
   
  Just started my overnight session only to discover my ears are stopped up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It feels as though I'm at altitude and cannot get them to pop or clear. I worked extremely hard to get some late liberty tonight and my session, while not being in jeopardy of me quitting, still threatens to be marred (life happens!). I don't feel sick but I could be coming under the weather (spell?) or something.
   
  But you know what? We gonna fight on anyway 'cause this is Audio! The session will still help  me relax and that counts for something. I just won't be able to learn anything from impressions... there'll be none! The WA 6 Special Edition certainly isn't lacking in volume or dynamics... let's turn it up, Silent One! On deck... "Red Sun" - Anoushka Shankar (Norah Jones half-sister).


----------



## Xcalibur255

I believe your current tubes have a lot to do with the magic the k701 is making, Dubstep Girl.  I found the Raytheons to work really well for them too, because their top end is mellow.  It's possible to send the amp in the other direction and make the k701 too bright with a different tube choice.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Trouble inside his listening room!_
> 
> Just started my overnight session only to discover my ears are stopped up!
> 
> ...


 

 Definitely understand this.  I've had really bad listening sessions because of pressure in my ears.  Makes everything sound thin and tinny.  Due to some issues I have with the joints in my jaw, I can't try to pop my ears.  Doing so brings.......... unfortunate consequences.  I used to wonder if it was related to barometric pressure, but I've had good and bad listens during high and low pressure fronts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol thanks, i think you should really try them out. based on the headphones you have in your inventory, i think the k701s would really offer a way different experience and complement the wa6se nicely.
> 
> i find i still enjoy my hd 650s, but often switch to k701/grado now since they sound so good.
> 
> ...


 

  
  I absolutely love my Zeus re-cabled Denon D7000's! It returns a great all around sound across a widely diverse music library like I have.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Definitely understand this.  I've had really bad listening sessions because of pressure in my ears.  Makes everything sound thin and tinny.  Due to some issues I have with the joints in my jaw, I can't try to pop my ears.  Doing so brings.......... unfortunate consequences.  I used to wonder if it was related to barometric pressure, but I've had good and bad listens during high and low pressure fronts.


 


  Occasionally, when I get a new tube, accessory, component or tweak, I'll allow for back-to-back-to-back listening sessions. But generally will listen every third night. To have a part-time schedule interrupted is terrible!!!
   
  Did you ever get the EML 5U4G in for evaluation? I was going to send you mine about a month ago and offered as much but you didn't address it when all of us were discussing EML Glass in this space. I mention it now 'cause I think I'm going to send it down-the-street! And with the proceeds buy some really good music. 
   
  Currently, have my eye on some 180 Gram Audiophile virgin vinyl. Purchased the glass in February - latest version (AFAIK).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I believe your current tubes have a lot to do with the magic the k701 is making, Dubstep Girl.  I found the Raytheons to work really well for them too, because their top end is mellow.  It's possible to send the amp in the other direction and make the k701 too bright with a different tube choice.


 


  hmmm so the raytheons + the sofia princess are part of it?
   
   
  maybe, but lemme tell you, its only finally opening up thanks to burn-in. the first 20 hours where brutal, it sounded quite harsh, now everythings like perfect lolz it just opened up


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Definitely understand this.  I've had really bad listening sessions because of pressure in my ears.  Makes everything sound thin and tinny.  Due to some issues I have with the joints in my jaw, I can't try to pop my ears.  Doing so brings.......... unfortunate consequences.  I used to wonder if it was related to barometric pressure, but I've had good and bad listens during high and low pressure fronts.


 

 I get that pressure thing too.  When I start out my listening sessions with the music low for a while and then turn it up I'm ok.  I have to be careful of the volume.  If it gets too high it's like everything after that doesn't sound right.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmmm so the raytheons + the sofia princess are part of it?
> 
> 
> maybe, but lemme tell you, its only finally opening up thanks to burn-in. the first 20 hours where brutal, it sounded quite harsh, now everythings like perfect lolz it just opened up


 


  I would give the Raytheons credit personally.  The rectifier doesn't affect tonal balance as much IMO, so much as it affects total system performance and resolution like any good power supply will.  One of the great things about the 6 series Woos is that trying different tubes in them is quite cheap, so you can get an idea of the range the different drivers cover in terms of sound without breaking the bank buying them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you ever get the EML 5U4G in for evaluation? I was going to send you mine about a month ago and offered as much but you didn't address it when all of us were discussing EML Glass in this space. I mention it now 'cause I think I'm going to send it down-the-street! And with the proceeds buy some really good music.


 


  I didn't but I feel I have enough of the picture to have a pretty good idea at this point.  I prefer not to borrow tubes, at least not expensive ones, because having to replace a tube that's not even mine would be a major blow fiscally if something were to go wrong and I'd rather not open the door to the opportunity, you know?  Somebody offered me a chance to hear an Osram B65 not too long ago, and my chest literally got tight at the thought of my dropping one or it dying in the amp while in my care.  The idea of having to replace a piece of glass worth nearly a thousand dollars market value.......  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It would be an amazing thing to get to hear one, but those guys play on a different level than me when it comes to this stuff.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The canjam thread has pictures of the new Woo234 and their new transport and DAC. 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/575847/canjam-rmaf-2011-listening-impressions-thread#post_7822451
   
  They look stunning.


----------



## WarriorAnt

The new Woo amps.  what do you think about the look?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think the new DAC and cd player have the better design personally, but the new amp has a commanding presence.  I really dig the two-tone with the black inserts in the columns myself.  The supersized volume knobs might be a bit too much.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think the new DAC and cd player have the better design personally, but the new amp has a commanding presence.  I really dig the two-tone with the black inserts in the columns myself.  The supersized volume knobs might be a bit too much.


 

 Granted I would have to see them in person but i think they look ridiculous.  Very ugly in my opinion, gaudy even.


----------



## Sesam

I bought some spare Shuguang Treasures and got surprised to see that these are different to my previous ones:
   


   
  The tubes (on the right) I got now were shorter with a somewhat fatter bottle. But the box is larger. Also on very close inspection the ceramic base has what looks like a couple of "hairline cracks" that is present on all four of the tubes I got. They probably aren't damaged, but for an obsessive perfectionist like me just knowing that it's there bothers me.. hence why these might end up in the sales forums if I can't stop thinking about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  If these sound the same however is yet to be determined


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The new Woo amps.  what do you think about the look?


 

 Greetings WA!
   
  My reaction is mixed. This is my first view. Hearing the amp or seeing someone with a nice integration into their listening room could soften my stance and allow my to be pulled in a favorable direction. But at this writing, I am neither amused or impressed.




   
  Had I the funds, I'd even consider approaching Jack about custom cladding - same internals but somewhat different housing. Hope the new amps sound fantastic and sell like hotcakes! Then maybe some of the tech can trickle down into more affordable offerings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The cookie cutter design reminds me of the Sonic Weld Diverter...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The new Woo amps.  what do you think about the look?


 


 It's a dwoosey!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow that looks amazing, but also i probably will never buy it, its too expensive


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think the new DAC and cd player have the better design personally, but the new amp has a commanding presence.  I really dig the two-tone with the black inserts in the columns myself.  The supersized volume knobs might be a bit too much.


 


  Busy morning, have not yet seen the DAC or CD Player. Can someone post, please?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I get that pressure thing too.  When I start out my listening sessions with the music low for a while and then turn it up I'm ok.  I have to be careful of the volume.  If it gets too high it's like everything after that doesn't sound right.


 

 That could be a positive way of your brain ensuring proper warm up for optimum listening.


----------



## WarriorAnt

For the price I was expecting a lot more tubes just to gratify the tube lust...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> For the price I was expecting a lot more tubes just to gratify the tube lust...


 


  lolz... maybe it doesn't need as many tubes and will sound great without them.
   
   
  anyways, so excited i just placed an order for DT 990s - 600 ohm finally!!! <3
   
  will get them tomorrow morning


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lolz... maybe it doesn't need as many tubes and will sound great without them.
> 
> 
> anyways, so excited i just placed an order for DT 990s - 600 ohm finally!!! <3
> ...


 


  Can't wait for your impressions - both @ 5 minutes & 500 hours. I know you'll be excited, hence the mention of the former. The 600 ohm DT 990' have also been on my mind...
   
  Were you able to hear someone else's 990? If so, what did you hear? Or did not hear, if it has a spooky and eerily quiet background.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ill make sure to put up a decent review, and ill be able to compare them to my 3 other cans, i hope my tubes help smooth up the highs on the beyers, i know most people say the 600s aren't as bright as the 250 ohm version, but i'll just have to see.
   
  anyways, whats been up? i'm starting to see you on here everyday lol


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Then maybe some of the tech can trickle down into more affordable offerings.


 


  This is my hope as well.  I asked Jack as much but didn't receive an answer, which is probably to be expected.  If anything is going to get a freshening it would probably be the WA5 first since its design is older than the WA6SE and WA22.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> For the price I was expecting a lot more tubes just to gratify the tube lust...


 


  Indeed, for 10K anybody that can afford these can afford to plop more tubes into them.  My thought is the total power output can't be much different than the WA5, since there appears to still be only a single pair of output tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The new DAC and transport.
   
  Based on what I can read on the placard the specs on the DAC are nothing earth shattering for the price.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ill make sure to put up a decent review, and ill be able to compare them to my 3 other cans, i hope my tubes help smooth up the highs on the beyers, i know most people say the 600s aren't as bright as the 250 ohm version, but i'll just have to see.
> 
> anyways, whats been up? i'm starting to see you on here everyday lol


 


  Ground Control --
   
  Could it be... Silent One... has a silent stalker? With D7000's and floor carpeting, I guess it'd be too late for me to react to anyone lurking behind me.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Indeed, for 10K anybody that can afford these can afford to plop more tubes into them.  My thought is the total power output can't be much different than the WA5, since there appears to still be only a single pair of output tubes.


 


  The real question without trying to cast a negative light or turn a discussion to that quadrant is what in the design or in the parts could actually warrant a $10K price tag.   If there are just a few tubes in play and assuming there are none inside what in the design concept is new enough, efficient enough to warrant the price?  If these 3 tubes on each side are doing all the work what could be on the inside doing the rest?    would love a peek inside.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The new DAC and transport.
> 
> Based on what I can read on the placard the specs on the DAC are nothing earth shattering for the price.


 

 Wonder if any of the audio sites will get their grubby lil' hands on a review model. I'm almost certain Jack had some Black cladding back in NY somewhere for these new offerings.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The real question without trying to cast a negative light or turn a discussion to that quadrant is what in the design or in the parts could actually warrant a $10K price tag.   If there are just a few tubes in play and assuming there are none inside what in the design concept is new enough, efficient enough to warrant the price?  If these 3 tubes on each side are doing all the work what could be on the inside doing the rest?    would love a peek inside.


 


  A drawing of their Target Market inside... no, seriously!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The real question without trying to cast a negative light or turn a discussion to that quadrant is what in the design or in the parts could actually warrant a $10K price tag.   If there are just a few tubes in play and assuming there are none inside what in the design concept is new enough, efficient enough to warrant the price?  If these 3 tubes on each side are doing all the work what could be on the inside doing the rest?    would love a peek inside.


 

 I think Jack is using this flagship product to showcase an entirely new type of transformer technology. 
   
  That and the amp is supposedly optimized electrically for the 45, 2A3, and 300B by way of the "keys" mentioned in the initial announcement from Woo Audio.  I think there might be different circuit topologies inside for each output tube type which would explain the physical size of the units.  That, of course, is nothing more than an uneducated guess on my part.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think Jack is using this flagship product to showcase an entirely new type of transformer technology.
> 
> That and the amp is supposedly optimized electrically for the 45, 2A3, and 300B by way of the "keys" mentioned in the initial announcement from Woo Audio.  I think there might be different circuit topologies inside for each output tube type which would explain the physical size of the units.  That, of course, is nothing more than an uneducated guess on my part.


 


  Interesting guess though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ground Control --
> 
> Could it be... Silent One... has a silent stalker? With D7000's and floor carpeting, I guess it'd be too late for me to react to anyone lurking behind me.


 


  hmm....maybe ....


----------



## WarriorAnt

The Woo's in action...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The Woo's in action...


 


  omg awesome!!!
   
  wow that thing is huge....
   
  wish i was there, i will def go next year .


----------



## jc9394

Wonder how much the transport cost.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> omg awesome!!!
> 
> wow that thing is huge....
> 
> wish i was there, i will def go next year .


 


  I wonder what the shipping costs would be?


----------



## Draygonn

My TS5998s arrived today! One of them is barely glowing. Is this cause for concern?

Anyone have info on that Woo DAC? Finally a DAC that will match the WA2.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

depends on the weight right?
   
  i know my 25lb WA6SE combo was like 45 dollars if i remember correctly, this will be like 100 dollars hahahah


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> depends on the weight right?
> 
> i know my 25lb WA6SE combo was like 45 dollars if i remember correctly, this will be like 100 dollars hahahah


 


  Maybe more than $100? That amp looks heavy! You'd have to make sure your rack was up to the task too!


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> Maybe more than $100?




Thats my bet. Those puppies look heavy.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> My TS5998s arrived today! One of them is barely glowing. Is this cause for concern?
> Anyone have info on that Woo DAC? Finally a DAC that will match the WA2.


 


  Does the channel with your TS5998 barely glowing sound not as loud? If it sounds good, then it's likely ok.


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> Does the channel with your TS5998 barely glowing sound not as loud? If it sounds good, then it's likely ok.




They both sound the same. 

I'm itching to be at the RMAF with the cool new stuff showing. Hopefully the companies will let reviewers take some of the new stuff home for a bit.


----------



## Wapiti

The WA5 is $150.00 to ship.


----------



## Silent One

I remember when Woo Audio shipped the WA5/LE in wooden crates... I love wood! Next Woo (new) I order, I'm going to voluntarily pay more to have Jack ship it in wood.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wonder how much the transport cost.


 


  I'm wondering two things specifically: sound; isolation. O.k., price would help...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Thank's that works.


 

 I just listen to the LCD-3. I did not like much the LCD-2 unless they were driven with serious power but these LCD-3..WOW!! They are GOOOD. Much, much better than the LCD-2. A lot more detail, a lot more open, A lot more comfortable... everything is better. I listen to them with the LF and they sounded incredible. The only problem is that they are double to price of the LCD-2. They are $1,945 but compared to the Edition 10 cost and the difference in performance these are killers.


----------



## Silent One

Now awaiting the headphones to debut...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just listen to the LCD-3. I did not like much the LCD-2 unless they were driven with serious power but these LCD-3..WOW!! They are GOOOD. Much, much better than the LCD-2. A lot more detail, a lot more open, A lot more comfortable... everything is better. I listen to them with the LF and they sounded incredible. The only problem is that they are double to price of the LCD-2. They are $1,945 but compared to the Edition 10 cost and the difference in performance these are killers.


 





   
  What's your view on the stock cabling, adequate or perhaps in need of yet more investment on top of the $1,945? How's the bass?!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow, everything is getting more expensive, guess i know what headphones i'm buying now...if they are as good as you say, i might have to get those instead of t1/800.....
   
  i wont buy anything till december or so tho, my dt 990s arrive tomorrow and then i'll have 4 main cans which are the 325, 701, 650s, and now the 990s, thats like 4 different sounding headphones and whatnot. so yeah im happy for a while


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just listen to the LCD-3. I did not like much the LCD-2 unless they were driven with serious power but these LCD-3..WOW!! They are GOOOD. Much, much better than the LCD-2. A lot more detail, a lot more open, A lot more comfortable... everything is better. I listen to them with the LF and they sounded incredible. The only problem is that they are double to price of the LCD-2. They are $1,945 but compared to the Edition 10 cost and the difference in performance these are killers.


 


  Thanks for your post, that's good to read. How is the sound-stage with the LCD3???
   
  So I guess you like the LCD3 better than the HE6. I have been looking at the LCD2/2 but because of the not so good sound-stage I stayed away. Now after reading your post and if the sound-stage is at-least equal to the HE6, the LCD will be my next headphone.


----------



## Draygonn

TS5998 installed pic. Listening to Tony Rice Unit UoM, the album that got me to restring my guitar after 15 years. 




for those interested in the Woo CD Transport and DAC info 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/575940/wds-1-and-wtp-1-the-new-d-a-converter-and-cd-transport-from-woo-audio


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> TS5998 installed pic. Listening to Tony Rice Unit UoM, the album that got me to restring my guitar after 15 years.
> 
> for those interested in the Woo CD Transport and DAC info
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/575940/wds-1-and-wtp-1-the-new-d-a-converter-and-cd-transport-from-woo-audio


 

 Exciting! Though, I'm guessing you ain't gettin' much done this weekend... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  @ $1,099 the WDS-1 has my attention.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> TS5998 installed pic. Listening to Tony Rice Unit UoM, the album that got me to restring my guitar after 15 years.
> 
> for those interested in the Woo CD Transport and DAC info
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/575940/wds-1-and-wtp-1-the-new-d-a-converter-and-cd-transport-from-woo-audio


 

 wow nice, grr i kinda wanna buy the wa2 despite the fact i have the wa6se, the wa2 just look awesome!!!


----------



## Silent One

Wonder if any of the new gear will have Black cladding... or maybe another option entirely (silver, copper & brass).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i wonder if woo does colors too, kinda like the pic of the WA3 on the website, maybe a solid white or maybe a cute pink or something like that


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> @ $1,099 the WDS-1 has my attention.




I've decided to wait for the WDS-1.:tongue_smile: It could be a while, might have to grab a T1 to pass the time...
I'm loving these 880's though so it's all bonus.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i wonder if woo does colors too, kinda like the pic of the WA3 on the website, maybe a solid white or maybe a cute pink or something like that


 


  Infusion --
   
  Jack does occasionally read this thread. And Woo Audio is an emerging audio manufacturer. If/when the 2012 model line shows up with an infusion of color, I'm gonna know exactly where Jack got his inspiration from.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

AWESOME!@#!@#@!#@!#
   
  i would totally buy another woo amp then, i have my eyes on the wa2 now


----------



## Silent One

I'm shaking my head in silence... and disbelief! As I continue on with my overnight session I am thinking just how close I came to listing my Woo this month. The USAF-596 saved my Woo from the hands of strangers!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I paid $69 shipped....and next to the Treasures (paid $229), they are a steal!


 

 That's a lot for a pair of Treasures, even if you got them in the premium gift box. I thought we discussed this...
  
    
  Quote:


silent one said:


> The cookie cutter design reminds me of the Sonic Weld Diverter...


 

 I like the "old" design aesthetic, maybe this new look will grow on me. I'm kind of digging that new DAC & transport though.
   
   
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> They both sound the same.


 
   

  Have you tried reversing them just to be sure?
  
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just listen to the LCD-3. I did not like much the LCD-2 unless they were driven with serious power but these LCD-3..WOW!! They are GOOOD. Much, much better than the LCD-2. A lot more detail, a lot more open, A lot more comfortable... everything is better. I listen to them with the LF and they sounded incredible. The only problem is that they are double to price of the LCD-2. They are $1,945 but compared to the Edition 10 cost and the difference in performance these are killers.


 

  The LCD-3 and Liquid Fire together, I would like to hear that combo sometime. Must resist the urge..._to sell everything _




   
  Good thing I really like what I'm hearing now


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's a lot for a pair of Treasures, even if you got them in the premium gift box. I thought we discussed this...
> I like the "old" design aesthetic, maybe this new look will grow on me. I'm kind of digging that new DAC & transport though.


 
   
   
   

   
  The new Mono block cookie-cutter design didn't move me... at all. The DAC has me interested; doesn't look bad. And I really want to get into the LCD-3!


----------



## Sesam

Are 274B/N/+ tubes compatible with the WA22 without any adapters?. Because I fancy the look of the Fullmusic - 274B/N/+ Special Edition tubes


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Exciting! Though, I'm guessing you ain't gettin' much done this weekend...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  All Woo rig?  I think I will get both the transport and dac.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All Woo rig?  I think I will get both the transport and dac.


 

 x2, too?
   
  That means we'll have to put off sushi and sake for a whole month! I cannot bear the thought! Then again.


----------



## jc9394

What you mean a whole month?  It will be months... Let me think that again, ramen for lunch over few months???  I guess it will pay off in he long run...


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All Woo rig?


 


  Woo transport to the Woo DAC using balanced cables to the WA22 gets me kinda of excited actually.
   
  Why do I come to this Woo thread anyway!?  It's like a constant tease.


----------



## xinque

Seems like everyday there's a new product coming out that delays me from buying stuff I was going to..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thinking about trying orthos as my next pair of headphones, so choices are between the HE-6 and LCD-2 (or LCD-3 as reviews trickle in).  It seems like everyone agrees on the HE-6 going into the K1K port on the WA5, but for LCDs I can't seem to find a consensus between the low impedance switch and the K1K port.  Some posts claim the LCDs become more alive with the extra power from the K1K, others say it doesn't need that much power and all it does is introduce noise.  Does anyone own an LCD and WA5 and tried both outputs?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's a lot for a pair of Treasures, even if you got them in the premium gift box. I thought we discussed this...
> I like the "old" design aesthetic, maybe this new look will grow on me. I'm kind of digging that new DAC & transport though.


 
   

   
  That is a lot...all my other sources dried up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jack Woo isn't carrying them anymore because of "production issues" either (though his price was even higher).


----------



## cifani090

The new amps is very interesting. Thanks for the pic WA.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

can't wait to hear peoples reviews of all the new woo stuff, maybe someone will buy a woo system (the new amp, new CD transport + DAC)
   
  i wonder what that would sound like....
   
  all thats left is for woo audio to release some sexy cans to match the new stuff


----------



## Sesam

MacedonianHero I have never seen Treasures sold cheaper anywhere else either, if there is better places to buy them I certainly would like to know about it. Googled for Chinese sites selling Treasures, did not really find any that were selling them cheaper, though one site had them with a blue bottle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Then I'm also a bit worried about the legitimacy of tubes from random sites, but I assume the Chinese don't pirate Chinese tubes!?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2, too?
> 
> That means we'll have to put off sushi and sake for a whole month! I cannot bear the thought! Then again.


 

 Wootastic.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What you mean a whole month?  It will be months... Let me think that again, ramen for lunch over few months???  I guess it will pay off in he long run...


 


  We'll save fondly over the upcoming months, reminding us of our days at University... and the creative snacks we came home with from the Goodie Store.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> for those interested in the Woo CD Transport and DAC info
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/575940/wds-1-and-wtp-1-the-new-d-a-converter-and-cd-transport-from-woo-audio


 


  I said once before already, but IMO there isn't anything about the DAC which makes it stand out at its price aside from the design aesthetic.  Personally I'd prefer it were in a smaller chassis, but obviously the main section is shared with the CDP to reduce manufacturing costs which makes total sense.  The proof is in the sound, not the specs, so only time will tell.  Am I the only one who is surprised there are no tubes involved with either of these pieces of gear?  Tube buffering combined with a DAC is becoming a popular idea and it would have fit the Woo brand image perfectly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Are 274B/N/+ tubes compatible with the WA22 without any adapters?. Because I fancy the look of the Fullmusic - 274B/N/+ Special Edition tubes


 


  No.  These tubes are not safe for the Woo amps.  The filaments pull 4 amps, which will destroy your transformer over time (or possibly pretty quickly depending upon how overbuilt it is).  Maximum filament current for rectifiers in the Woo amps is 3 amps.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> That is a lot...all my other sources dried up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





sesam said:


> MacedonianHero I have never seen Treasures sold cheaper anywhere else either, if there is better places to buy them I certainly would like to know about it. Googled for Chinese sites selling Treasures, did not really find any that were selling them cheaper, though one site had them with a blue bottle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   

  Did you guys click on these links I provided (again, below)? I bought a pair from this seller, they sound just as good as my other set which I believe came from Woo.
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's a lot for a pair of Treasures, even if you got them in the premium gift box. I thought we discussed this...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I said once before already, but IMO there isn't anything about the DAC which makes it stand out at its price aside from the design aesthetic.  Personally I'd prefer it were in a smaller chassis, but obviously the main section is shared with the CDP to reduce manufacturing costs which makes total sense.  The proof is in the sound, not the specs, so only time will tell.  Am I the only one who is surprised there are no tubes involved with either of these pieces of gear?  Tube buffering combined with a DAC is becoming a popular idea and it would have fit the Woo brand image perfectly.


 

 Me? I was expecting tube buffering with the new DAC. This, while auditioning the Mhdt Havana Balanced Edition with my WA6SE. I took quite the inquiries with that pairing - all but two people were concerned with synergy (my audio consultant & a WA22/Havana Balanced owner). After getting intimate with the Tube-on-Tube pairing, I discovered none of the concerns were realized. It returned a beautiful and musical presentation. The WA6SE doesn't sound tubey to begin with in my opinion. Rather, somewhere in between Tubes & SS.
   
  Maybe Woo Audio will return with a tube output in a complimentary model still to come. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  If they do, put me down!


----------



## Sesam

@Grokit, sorry I misread/misunderstood, I thought you were saying that they are available cheaper than from those sellers you linked to.
   
  As for the new Woo DAC, I have to admit I don't really like the design. The style clashes with previous Woo amps, and if it is not available in black that's a deal breaker for me. Sure when stacked with the transport the design makes more sense, but separately it looks odd.


----------



## jamesnz

If someone can read the Woo Dac specs, could you please post them up? (specifically inputs and outputs)
  My eyes can't read it very well in the photo.
  Thanks!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> If someone can read the Woo Dac specs, could you please post them up? (specifically inputs and outputs)
> My eyes can't read it very well in the photo.
> Thanks!


 
   
  Here you go:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/575940/wds-1-and-wtp-1-the-new-d-a-converter-and-cd-transport-from-woo-audio#post_7823627


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> The new amps is very interesting. Thanks for the pic WA.


 


  I was only teasing about the look of the new amps.  The imp in me got the best of me.  I'm sure they look beautiful in person and not like Expresso machines.  There I go again.  Actually I really love the look of the current line of amps.  Do you think they will change in the future?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I was only teasing about the look of the new amps.  The imp in me got the best of me.  I'm sure they look beautiful in person and not like Expresso machines.  There I go again.  Actually I really love the look of the current line of amps.  Do you think they will change in the future?


 

  
  I wasn't. Though, I am not out calling it names (I am kind), I remain unmoved. I like the new amp conceptually, just not aesthetically. And this is ok because their new design will take them in a new direction and this will payoff in amps of other designs later (trickle down).
   
  One thing that could easily be overlooked with the current Woo line is the actual cladding - the same design but different vendor could have have folks screaming, running or both! The current cladding on my WA6SE is a thing of beauty!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I wasn't. Though, I am not out calling it names (I am kind), I remain unmoved. I like the new amp conceptually, just not aesthetically. And this is ok because their new design will take them in a new direction and this will payoff in amps of other designs later (trickle down).
> 
> One thing that could easily be overlooked with the current Woo line is the actual cladding - the same design but different vendor could have have folks screaming, running or both! The current cladding on my WA6SE is a thing of beauty!


 


  The look of the current line is what keeps a Woo amp on my tube list till I finally make a decision. But it would be nice if a new line trickled down with the same look as the current line.   I just wonder how much new innovation can be done on tube circuit design without stumbling into absurd complexity which will most likely lead also to absurd prices.  I often wonder if many of todays designs are really as good as it needs to be and the best improvement in current sonics will not come from more complex designs but simply using the best build components available and matching those build components to and with each other to find their best collective synergies.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Jack woo.


----------



## Xcalibur255

An excellent thought there WarriorAnt.  I suppose in the end it comes down to the approach and methodology of the designer.  Woo used to be based on the principle of simple and elegant circuit design, but as goals and intentions become more ambitious I think that sort of thing has a tendency to fall to the wayside without the people involved even realizing it.  What bothers me most about the industry in general is how fast things turn over now.  The Audeze LCD-2/3 is a great example.  It's like graphics cards in high-end computers the way things keep getting one-upped so quickly now.  I think part of the problem lies in the enthusiast community fueling the craze with their wallets too.  The companies are only following the money afterall, which is what they are out there to do as companies in the first place.
   
  We seem to have been brainwashed into believing that when something we own has been improved upon, for some reason we *need* to upgrade it.  I'd love to crack the secret of separating that urge out from my passion for this hobby so I can just be happy with what I have until a more natural desire to improve my listening experience dictates an upgrade instead.
   
  FWIW, though, I think you are right in that the best gains to be had now are in component choices, since there are only so many tricks one can employ in curcuit design without doing more harm than good via needless complexity.  Since the day I decided to start saving for a WA22 it was always my intention to ask Jack to substitute different capacitors of my own choosing in the amp's build.  The $2 Dayton caps in the stock design were likely chosen for their neutral sonic signature and tight tolerance ratings, but in a nearly $2K amp this seems like an obvious weak link that could take the amp to a higher level with the addition of a few boutique caps.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Jack woo.


 

 On a lighter note...... that is one seriously thick looking remote control.  It looks like a giant candy bar with buttons on it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It might be out of place amidst all the canjam news, but I thought I'd put a final cap on my GZ33 listening impressions very briefly.  I threw the EML 274B back in before pulling the BGRP Tung Sols, and in the end I think I like this combination better.  The Tung Sols have clarity and detail to spare, so the slightly softer transients don't really take anything away here, and the more pronounced note decay and wider note spacing seem to suit the Tung Sols supernatural imaging ability better to produce that special tube magic.  The GZ33 makes them sound a little too clinical and matter of fact sounding, though the level of detail and control is unmatched.  My SS amp can't touch it.  I think the EML combo results in slightly better tone too, not necessarily more neutral or accurate, just better for my tastes.


----------



## grokit

I've been really digging the EML 274B with the Treasures lately, listening with the LCD-2 rev.1. The HD800 isn't getting any headtime at all though!


----------



## Golfnutz

CanJam@RMAF 2011 Listening Impressions Thread - Kind of disappointed by the impressions so far. Seems like 80% of the discussions are about the LCD-3's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

When Jude declares something to be the best dynamic headphone ever made, I suppose that kind of attention is to be expected.  The only thing about the LCD-3 that raised my eyebrow was Audeze admitting they are planning to one-up it in a year or so in the name of further improvement.  That doesn't seem like good business sense to me to reveal such a thing at this point in time.
   
  I'm still targeting the LCD-2 rev.2 personally.  I have little doubt it will deliver a satisfying improvement over my old K701s, and if an LCD-4 does come into being it'll be that much more of an upgrade to justify saving for that when the time comes.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> When Jude declares something to be the best dynamic headphone ever made, I suppose that kind of attention is to be expected.  The only thing about the LCD-3 that raised my eyebrow was Audeze admitting they are planning to one-up it in a year or so in the name of further improvement.  That doesn't seem like good business sense to me to reveal such a thing at this point in time.
> 
> I'm still targeting the LCD-2 rev.2 personally.  I have little doubt it will deliver a satisfying improvement over my old K701s, and if an LCD-4 does come into being it'll be that much more of an upgrade to justify saving for that when the time comes.


 


 Probably, but there was a lot of hype prior to Judes comments. I agree with your comments on the LCD-4's.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It might be out of place amidst all the canjam news, but I thought I'd put a final cap on my GZ33 listening impressions very briefly.  I threw the EML 274B back in before pulling the BGRP Tung Sols, and in the end I think I like this combination better.  The Tung Sols have clarity and detail to spare, so the slightly softer transients don't really take anything away here, and the more pronounced note decay and wider note spacing seem to suit the Tung Sols supernatural imaging ability better to produce that special tube magic.  The GZ33 makes them sound a little too clinical and matter of fact sounding, though the level of detail and control is unmatched.  My SS amp can't touch it.  I think the EML combo results in slightly better tone too, not necessarily more neutral or accurate, just better for my tastes.


 

 This is what I am finding too.


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/575940/wds-1-and-wtp-1-the-new-d-a-converter-and-cd-transport-from-woo-audio#post_7823627


 


  Thanks Grokit, you're a champion.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What's your view on the stock cabling, adequate or perhaps in need of yet more investment on top of the $1,945? How's the bass?!


 


  I don't know about the stock cable because the ones Audezee had in display had the ALO cable. My guess is you will need an aftermarket cable to really make them shine but just my guess since I could not compared them with the stock cable.
   
  SS,
  I can not say that I like them better than the HE-6 but I think I like them the same. I think the soundstage is about the same or slightly smaller. They are clearly more open and detailed than the LCD-2 but keeping the great bass.


----------



## Pudu

musicman59 said:


> I don't know about the stock cable because the ones Audezee had in display had the ALO cable. My guess is you will need an aftermarket cable to really make them shine but just my guess since I could not compared them with the stock cable.
> 
> SS,
> I can not say that I like them better than the HE-6 but I think I like them the same. I think the soundstage is about the same or slightly smaller. They are clearly more open and detailed than the LCD-2 but keeping the great bass.




This is what I don't understand about cables and sound. Why would anyone make a two grand flagship statement big kahuna grand frommage headphone and then put a substandard cable on it? When, with $30 worth of wire, they could avoid that particular pitfall. 

Sorry, I'm not baiting here, I just don't understand it.

Edit: And to keep it on topic, let me add that I came home yesterday with a Wa2 for my T1 and it is every bit as glorious as has been described. Love it!


----------



## Audiogalore

Interesting statement and question pertaining to the LCD2 with the Woo WA5. I have both and have found on my PWD/PWT and Esoteric X-03SE as my primary digital sources "high impedance" sounds best. Quite strange LCD2 being 50 ohms that is considered being low impedance. On the HE6 definitely great sounding on the K1K output jack.
   
  Enjoy music!
  
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Seems like everyday there's a new product coming out that delays me from buying stuff I was going to..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Draygonn

grokit said:


> Have you tried reversing them just to be sure?




I swapped the tubes and it acts the same. My ears can't tell the difference but I should probably send it back for an exchange. I'd like to have Purrin test them next weekend but I only have 7 days for an exchange. They are advertised as NOS but the 'defective' one has darker glass and the silver at the top has some scoring so maybe it has been used.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I swapped the tubes and it acts the same. My ears can't tell the difference but I should probably send it back for an exchange. I'd like to have Purrin test them next weekend but I only have 7 days for an exchange. They are advertised as NOS but the 'defective' one has darker glass and the silver at the top has some scoring so maybe it has been used.


 


  This can happen from only a few hours of use in some cases, so you can't necessarily take it as a sign the tube is used.  The "scoring' in particular is usually indicative of a higher temp reaction when the getter was formed, which is actually a good thing as far as functionality of the getter goes.  When it comes to getters the only thing you ever have to worry about is if it appears to be turning chalky white. 
   
  Even if it was used slightly if the tube tests new electrically I wouldn't worry about it.  One tube appearing brighter also isn't necessarily anything to worry about.  I have many tubes like this, and it usually is from the heater being pinched at the ends a little more than on the other tube.


----------



## Wapiti

Are there any sources for the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B other than the Woos and the manufacturer?  I have not been able to locate any.


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Are there any sources for the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B other than the Woos and the manufacturer?  I have not been able to locate any.


 


  I haven't been able to locate them elsewhere either, but looks to me like the Sophia tubes are really just re-branded TJ Full Music (and those can be found at several other places).


----------



## Draygonn

xcalibur255 said:


> Even if it was used slightly if the tube tests new electrically I wouldn't worry about it.  One tube appearing brighter also isn't necessarily anything to worry about.  I have many tubes like this, and it usually is from the heater being pinched at the ends a little more than on the other tube.




The tube sounds great to me so I'll let it be.

HE-500 arrives tomorrow!


----------



## xinque

So in short, LCD-2 works well on any of the WA5 outputs..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> Interesting statement and question pertaining to the LCD2 with the Woo WA5. I have both and have found on my PWD/PWT and Esoteric X-03SE as my primary digital sources "high impedance" sounds best. Quite strange LCD2 being 50 ohms that is considered being low impedance. On the HE6 definitely great sounding on the K1K output jack.
> 
> Enjoy music!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Are there any sources for the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B other than the Woos and the manufacturer?  I have not been able to locate any.


 
   
   Check with Peter (Macedonian Hero), I thought he had mentioned an alternative source. But I could be mis-remembering 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> The tube sounds great to me so I'll let it be.


 

  That sounds sensible enough, but it would drive the OCD part of me nuts if my matched tubes didn't light up the same way and looked different.


----------



## Audiogalore

Yes, however a couple of things must be kept in mind the source sensitivity will determine impedance input selected. Planar configuration has wide voltage swing which works well on any input.
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> So in short, LCD-2 works well on any of the WA5 outputs..


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Check with Peter (Macedonian Hero), I thought he had mentioned an alternative source. But I could be mis-remembering
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

  Just the Sophia distributor here in NA:
   
  http://www.sophiaelectric.com/
   
  But their prices are about the same as Woo Audio...I'd stick with Woo Audio personally prices being equal.


----------



## Draygonn

grokit said:


> That sounds sensible enough, but it would drive the OCD part of me nuts if my matched tubes didn't light up the same way and looked different.




I'll be OCD next time. The tube just popped and took out my brand new HE-500s. Maybe its Gods way of telling me I should have gone with T1s. Not sure what smilie to use in a moment like this...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll be OCD next time. The tube just popped and took out my brand new HE-500s. Maybe its Gods way of telling me I should have gone with T1s. Not sure what smilie to use in a moment like this...


 


  Sorry to hear about your experience. And now, a moment of silence...


----------



## xinque

Read in one of the other threads that when tubes die nothing happens, channel just goes silent.  Is this not the case?  So if I have a deteriorating tube in my amp and let it die completely, it can destroy my headphones or hearing?
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll be OCD next time. The tube just popped and took out my brand new HE-500s. Maybe its Gods way of telling me I should have gone with T1s. Not sure what smilie to use in a moment like this...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Just the Sophia distributor here in NA:


 
  http://www.sophiaelectric.com/
   
  But their prices are about the same as Woo Audio...I'd stick with Woo Audio personally prices being equal.
   
   
  Agreed about going through Woo in general, but they are not priced the same once the warranty is taken into consideration.
   
   
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll be OCD next time. The tube just popped and took out my brand new HE-500s. Maybe its Gods way of telling me I should have gone with T1s. Not sure what smilie to use in a moment like this...


 

 That really sux, hopefully HiFiMAN will take care of you.


----------



## Pudu

draygonn said:


> grokit said:
> 
> 
> > That sounds sensible enough, but it would drive the OCD part of me nuts if my matched tubes didn't light up the same way and looked different.
> ...




Condolences man. That does indeed suck.

I bought a WA2 two days ago and when I read your post I reached slowly over to the plug and disconnected my T1's (1 week old) and gave my tubes (I'm third owner of this amp) a good long look. I also hope Hifiman can help you out with this somehow.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Just the Sophia distributor here in NA:
> 
> http://www.sophiaelectric.com/
> 
> But their prices are about the same as Woo Audio...I'd stick with Woo Audio personally prices being equal.


 
   

   
  Thank you.
   
  I came to the same conclusion.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll be OCD next time. The tube just popped and took out my brand new HE-500s. Maybe its Gods way of telling me I should have gone with T1s. Not sure what smilie to use in a moment like this...


 


  Ouch.  Sorry to hear about that.  It's often recommended that if you are going to be into tube gear for the long haul it is good to own your own tube tester so you can verify yourself that the tubes are electrically healthy.  This is definitely my intention once a few other priorities are taken care of.  It's a shame we cannot take sellers at their word, but the truth is there are some sellers out there who don't even know how to test the tubes they sell properly.
   
  I feel bad since I implied to you the tube likely had nothing wrong with it (which is still the truth, it can be perfectly normal for two tubes to glow at different brightnesses), but for the tube to arc, surge and damage your headphones is really unusual and unlucky.  In most cases when a tube dies nothing else blows up with it, so I'm guessing your tube had a short and was unsafe for use.  The seller either didn't test the tube for shorts or didn't do so correctly.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Couldn't a tube develop a short soon after it has passed the short test? I own a tube tester and test every tube before I use them in my amps and at least one of them shorted out soon after it tested GOOD. Eek! Fortunately all that happened was that one channel went dead until I replaced the bad tube with a good one.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Indeed, this could be true as well.  I think draygonn got very unlucky.


----------



## Silent One

I've been putting off the purchase of a tube tester all year. I better move it to the top (near the top) of my list of audio purchases.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've been putting off the purchase of a tube tester all year. I better move it to the top (near the top) of my list of audio purchases.


 

 Unfortunately my tube tester is a WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Unfortunately my tube tester is a WA22.


 






  Guess I got the tube tester (WA6SE) at a much lower price point just below the WA22 and above the Hickcock model #_ _ _.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> ^ Couldn't a tube develop a short soon after it has passed the short test? I own a tube tester and test every tube before I use them in my amps and at least one of them shorted out soon after it tested GOOD. Eek! Fortunately all that happened was that one channel went dead until I replaced the bad tube with a good one.


 
  I would say a lot depends on the tester.
  Has it been calibrated/ restored?
  Some testers have a much better circuit than others for checking shorts say.
  A Hickok goes to 0.25Meg, a Jackson 648 to 2.5Meg, a Sencore TC28 and some B&K to 100Meg.
  I have checked a brand new Tung Sol 6SN7 re issue which is fine on a Hickock but shows a short on a Jackson.


----------



## Draygonn

Thanks for the condolences. I've never heard of tubes going like that before so it must be a very rare case. Where can I get a tube tester? 

On the bright side at least the WA2 is OK!


----------



## rosgr63

I thoroughly recommend http://tubesound.com/  Bob Putnak offers excellent after sales service and will guide you through to buy the right tester for your needs.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I've never heard of tubes going like that before so it must be a very rare case. Where can I get a tube tester?
> On the bright side at least the WA2 is OK!


 

  
  A tube failure that causes harm is rare, almost like being hit by lightening.  I really sorry to hear you experienced this and it caused damage.


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> A tube failure that causes harm is rare, almost like being hit by lightening.  I really sorry to hear you experienced this and it caused damage.






Thanks for clarifying. Knowing nothing about tubes, I've been wondering about this since I read about Draygonn's misfortune.


----------



## magiester

Hi, everyone!
   
  I recently bought a used WA6SE MAXXED. Maybe I'm just attracted by its looking and the tube... But what makes me sad is that the WA6se seems "not working" on my system... My system now is PC->optical cable->Marantz SA8004->WA6se->Denon D7000. While the SA8004 has phoneout. The problem is I can hardly hear any audible difference between SA8004->D7000 and SA8004->WA6se->D7000. I mean there is some difference, but too small for WA6se I think, considering the price...
   
  Can anybody answer me? My friend told me that Rudi will be a best choice for SA8004, but I just like WA6se very much.
   
  By the way, my WA6se is using 274B and sylvania 6EW7 pairs
   
  Thanks!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i'm considering buying a WA2 in the future, i want to know how big of a difference it is between the WA6SE and the WA2. i want the wa2 cause people say it has the typical tube sound but i dunno how different it is from the WA6SE


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i'm considering buying a WA2 in the future, i want to know how big of a difference it is between the WA6SE and the WA2. i want the wa2 cause people say it has the typical tube sound but i dunno how different it is from the WA6SE


 

_






  While you wait..._
   
  ...to hear from former and current owners who may have owned both; heard both, I'm almost certain (I am) that the "Search" function will return impressions and shootouts from just this past summer alone.
   
  And for fun, you can have a look at Woo Audio's site and how they describe the differences among their offerings:
   
http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiester said:


> Hi, everyone!
> 
> I recently bought a used WA6SE MAXXED. Maybe I'm just attracted by its looking and the tube... But what makes me sad is that the WA6se seems "not working" on my system... My system now is PC->optical cable->Marantz SA8004->WA6se->Denon D7000. While the SA8004 has phoneout. The problem is I can hardly hear any audible difference between SA8004->D7000 and SA8004->WA6se->D7000. I mean there is some difference, but too small for WA6se I think, considering the price...
> 
> ...


 

 Enhancement or power output? Also, unsure at this writing how you're set up on the PC - Software player; your output selection (kernel streaming, WASAPI, ASIO...).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 it would be nicer to have peoples opinions though since woo only tells me WA6SE = more dynamic and WA2 is more euphonic and everything else is the same. Also, WA6SE has more power output. Plus the WA2 looks like a really cute amp.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





magiester said:


> Hi, everyone!
> 
> I recently bought a used WA6SE MAXXED. Maybe I'm just attracted by its looking and the tube... But what makes me sad is that the WA6se seems "not working" on my system... My system now is PC->optical cable->Marantz SA8004->WA6se->Denon D7000. While the SA8004 has phoneout. The problem is I can hardly hear any audible difference between SA8004->D7000 and SA8004->WA6se->D7000. I mean there is some difference, but too small for WA6se I think, considering the price...
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Not surprise you don't heard much difference on D7000, they are very easy to drive.  You should be able to heard a different signature with Woo over just the headphone out.  When I had my D7000, there isn't much difference between my Denon 5805 and WA22 but there definitely difference on signature, details, and soundstage.  Try a pair of HD6x0 and you will notice a lot of difference between your Marantz and WA6SE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it would be nicer to have peoples opinions though since woo only tells me WA6SE = more dynamic and WA2 is more euphonic and everything else is the same. Also, WA6SE has more power output. Plus the WA2 looks like a really cute amp.


 


  Looking at your signature, it will be a better upgrade to WA22 instead WA2.  WA2 does not do well with Grado.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it would be nicer to have peoples opinions though since woo only tells me WA6SE = more dynamic and WA2 is more euphonic and everything else is the same. Also, WA6SE has more power output. Plus the WA2 looks like a really cute amp.


 


  Yes, it would, which is why I pointed out (mentioned) the recent write ups on WA2 vs WA6SE. The link was just for fun (thought I mentioned that, but...).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Looking at your signature, it will be a better upgrade to WA22 instead WA2.  WA2 does not do well with Grado.


 


  somewhere on the forums i read that the WA22 is only for balanced and if you use the regular unbalanced connection it has, its about the same as the WA6SE and a maxed WA6SE would be slightly better than the unbalanced output of the WA22. that according to Jack Woo himself.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> somewhere on the forums i read that the WA22 is only for balanced and if you use the regular unbalanced connection it has, its about the same as the WA6SE and a maxed WA6SE would be slightly better than the unbalanced output of the WA22. that according to Jack Woo himself.


 


  yes, that is true.  i was sticking with my maxxed wa6 until i got my pwd before getting wa22.  balanced source is required for wa22, not an option.


----------



## Silent One

This is true. The extra funds could be wisely invested elsewhere if you did not wanna go balanced.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what about save up for WA5 in the long run or something like that, i would get the more expensive kind because i plan on trying to get K1000's in the future. not only for sound quality, but i think they are the most stylish headphones ever made. they're just cool looking.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it would be nicer to have peoples opinions though since woo only tells me WA6SE = more dynamic and WA2 is more euphonic and everything else is the same. Also, WA6SE has more power output. Plus the WA2 looks like a really cute amp.


 

 The Woo description is correct.
   
  As an OTL amp the WA2 is better with timbre, texture.  The WA6SE is punchier and is better with macro dynamics.  It also has more bass control as it has a lower output impedance.  As a counter, the WA2 conveys dynamic expression through both volume differences, but also by more richly portraying the timbre changes as an instrument changes volume (more a different harmonics are present in an acoustic instrument and voice as dynamics increase.)
   
  If you listen to unamplified acoustic instruments and voice recorded in a natural acoustic space I predict you would luxuriate in the sound of a good OTL amp.  If you prefer pop, rock and dubstep  you will likely prefer the WA6SE for its energy and bass control. 
   
  Naturally, if you listen to both you _need _both.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> The Woo description is correct.
> 
> As an OTL amp the WA2 is better with timbre, texture.  The WA6SE is punchier and is better with macro dynamics.  It also has more bass control as it has a lower output impedance.  As a counter, the WA2 conveys dynamic expression through both volume differences, but also by more richly portraying the timbre changes as an instrument changes volume (more a different harmonics are present in an acoustic instrument and voice as dynamics increase.)
> 
> ...


 


  that's what i'm thinking, i might  just buy the WA2 later in the future, right now i just got the WA6SE not too long ago, so I won't just yet


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> The Woo description is correct.
> 
> As an OTL amp the WA2 is better with timbre, texture.  The WA6SE is punchier and is better with macro dynamics.  It also has more bass control as it has a lower output impedance.  As a counter, the WA2 conveys dynamic expression through both volume differences, but also by more richly portraying the timbre changes as an instrument changes volume (more a different harmonics are present in an acoustic instrument and voice as dynamics increase.)
> 
> ...




See, now this is the proper way to describe music and the characteristics of audio equipment . Nicely done.



Me -> "I think my WA2 sounds really really good!!" (I let exclamation marks do all the heavy lifting)


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> somewhere on the forums i read that the WA22 is only for balanced and if you use the regular unbalanced connection it has, its about the same as the WA6SE and a maxed WA6SE would be slightly better than the unbalanced output of the WA22. that according to Jack Woo himself.


 

 I never heard WA2, but WA6SE does sound more dynamic and in-your-face. I think WA22 has more laid-back and more "tubey" sound.
   
  Btw, anyone else find that the premium tubes sound on the WA22 sound super tubey? Like everything is rounded off and a little flabby? It tightens up a bit when the amp warms up for a while, but I find the sound to be too warm for my taste.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> I never heard WA2, but WA6SE does sound more dynamic and in-your-face. I think WA22 has more laid-back and more "tubey" sound.
> 
> Btw, anyone else find that the premium tubes sound on the WA22 sound super tubey? Like everything is rounded off and a little flabby? It tightens up a bit when the amp warms up for a while, but I find the sound to be too warm for my taste.


 


  What tubes you are using?  I found some tubes are more tuby but not too warm at all.  Is your source is warm to begin with?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Sophia 274b, the Shuguang Treasures, and Sylvania 7236. I'm using sabre based dac and it's not warm at all. Maybe "warm" isn't the right word, but really tubey sound.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> that's what i'm thinking, i might  just buy the WA2 later in the future, right now i just got the WA6SE not too long ago, so I won't just yet


 

 So tell me, based on your comments regarding a singular typo in the "Veil" thread as invalidating the author's thoughts, how does one assess a run on sentence without proper capitalization, poor spacing, improper temporal phrasing, and missing  conclusionary punctuation?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  Point made?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Sophia 274b, the Shuguang Treasures, and Sylvania 7236. I'm using sabre based dac and it's not warm at all. Maybe "warm" isn't the right word, but really tubey sound.


 


  PM sent...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Sophia 274b, the Shuguang Treasures, and Sylvania 7236. I'm using sabre based dac and it's not warm at all. Maybe "warm" isn't the right word, but really tubey sound.


 


  Do you have any 5U4G to try?  I found the 274B are more tubey.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> So tell me, based on your comments regarding a singular typo in the "Veil" thread as invalidating the author's thoughts, how does one assess a run on sentence without proper capitalization, poor spacing, improper temporal phrasing, and missing  conclusionary punctuation?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  and you're saying i'm the petty one? i spell properly when i feel its necessary. now quit forum stalking me!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and you're saying i'm the petty one? i spell properly when i feel its necessary. now quit forum stalking me!


 
   
  Help her out with an exhaustive amplifier comparison she requested and _this _is the response I get.  [throws hooves in air]
   
  I am particularly enjoying "i spell properly when i feel its necessary."  Apparently you do not feel it's currently necessary. 
  




   
  (sorry for the brief, unWoo hijack.)


----------



## Icenine2

I'm surprised there isn't more listening feedback on the big Woo at the show.  Unless I've missed it and someone could point that out.  It and the CD/DAC are interesting.  They do remind me of stacked quarters.


----------



## danne

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> I never heard WA2, but WA6SE does sound more dynamic and in-your-face. I think WA22 has more laid-back and more "tubey" sound.
> 
> Btw, anyone else find that the premium tubes sound on the WA22 sound super tubey? Like everything is rounded off and a little flabby? It tightens up a bit when the amp warms up for a while, but I find the sound to be too warm for my taste.


 


  Depends a bit on what headphones you use as well?
  I really enjoy the lush tube warmth to my HD800.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Do you have any 5U4G to try?  I found the 274B are more tubey.


 


  I second this.  A 5U4G, or to take it a bit further a Mullard GZ33 or GZ34 will put the snap back in the sound.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what about save up for WA5 in the long run or something like that, i would get the more expensive kind because i plan on trying to get K1000's in the future. not only for sound quality, but i think they are the most stylish headphones ever made. they're just cool looking.


 

 If your plan is a K1000 the WA5 will certainly cover all of the bases for every headphone imaginable, it's unique like that and not just in the Woo lineup. IMO it's also an excellent value as it will drive speakers as well, it's a real final-destination type of amp.
   
   
  Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> I never heard WA2, but WA6SE does sound more dynamic and in-your-face. I think WA22 has more laid-back and more "tubey" sound.
> 
> Btw, anyone else find that the premium tubes sound on the WA22 sound super tubey? Like everything is rounded off and a little flabby? It tightens up a bit when the amp warms up for a while, but I find the sound to be too warm for my taste.


 
  Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Sophia 274b, the Shuguang Treasures, and Sylvania 7236. I'm using sabre based dac and it's not warm at all. Maybe "warm" isn't the right word, but really tubey sound.


 

 That's about the least tubey combo that I've tried with the WA22, but it is Woo's most euphonic amplifier so maybe euphonics is not your thing.

 Quote: 





danne said:


> Depends a bit on what headphones you use as well?
> I really enjoy the lush tube warmth to my HD800.





   
  Agreed, these are both valid points.
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I second this.  A 5U4G, or to take it a bit further a Mullard GZ33 or GZ34 will put the snap back in the sound.






  I don't know if I would generalize like this. To my ears the _EML_ 5U4G is even more euphonic and certainly warmer in this combo.
   
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> now quit forum stalking me!


 
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Wapiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> (sorry for the brief, unWoo hijack.)


 

 Take it back to the veil thread where it evidently started please...

  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I'm surprised there isn't more listening feedback on the big Woo at the show.  Unless I've missed it and someone could point that out.  It and the CD/DAC are interesting.  They do remind me of stacked quarters.


 
   
  All we know is features, price and looks but no detailed listening impressions (that I have read at least) so far. I could totally see this stack feeding my WA22


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I don't know if I would generalize like this. To my ears the _EML_ 5U4G is even more euphonic and certainly warmer in this combo.


 
  Are you talking EML 274B vs. EML 5U4G?  If so then I would be surprised by this result.  Of course which drivers and output tubes are in place will also play a big role.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I'm surprised there isn't more listening feedback on the big Woo at the show.  Unless I've missed it and someone could point that out.  It and the CD/DAC are interesting.  They do remind me of stacked quarters.


 

 I find this shocking. As late as Thursday night, I was thinking about those who visit this thread returning with impressions by the basket. Hope it all sounds fantastic, as the new look simply does not Woo me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Are you talking EML 274B vs. EML 5U4G?  If so then I would be surprised by this result.  Of course which drivers and output tubes are in place will also play a big role.


 

 No, I am comparing the EML 5U4G to the Sophia 274B that SemiAudiophile had mentioned, specifically in combo with the Treasure drivers and 7236 power tubes that he(?) is using. As far as the EMLs go, to my ears the 274B and 5U4G are both very euphonic but with extremely different sound signatures.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

I wouldn't describe it as euphonic, but maybe just more "rounded"? Anyway, I do have some standard 5U4Gs as well as the 596 rectifier. I'll give it a swap when I get home.
   
  I do find that the 596 is less warm than the Sophia 274b. Which make it sound like it has more space, like how it was described earlier "taking the furniture away". It's pretty nice.
   
  The headphone I'm using is my woodied Grado SR325i and I wouldn't describe it as a warm headphone. It has pretty balanced signature as far as Grado's go and it's great for testing out different amps.


----------



## Dennis

Quote: 





danne said:


> Depends a bit on what headphones you use as well?
> I really enjoy the lush tube warmth to my HD800.


 


  So am I. 
  IMAO, WA2 is one of the best single-end amp for HD800 since HD800 has a slightly aggressive treble, WA2 can enhance the smoothness and the bass impact of HD800.
   
  I hv done an A/B test on WA2 and WA6SE with HD800 and T1.
  WA2 does perfom better than WA6SE with high impedance cans, even the bass.
  However, WA2 isn't the right choice for low impedance cans, such as D7000.
   
   
   
  P.S WA2 sounds surprisingly gd with RS1i and surprisingly bad with GS1000.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> I wouldn't describe it as euphonic, but maybe just more "rounded"? Anyway, I do have some standard 5U4Gs as well as the 596 rectifier. I'll give it a swap when I get home.
> 
> I do find that the 596 is less warm than the Sophia 274b. Which make it sound like it has more space, like how it was described earlier "taking the furniture away". It's pretty nice.
> 
> The headphone I'm using is my woodied Grado SR325i and I wouldn't describe it as a warm headphone. It has pretty balanced signature as far as Grado's go and it's great for testing out different amps.


 

 USAF-596
   
  I agree with your _"Taking the furniture away"_ comment. Giving me the impression of a fuller sound within the room (more space for the notes to emanate in and around), versus the once held Sophia Princess 274B & current EML 5U4G. Tonight, I'm going to throw some Piano-Bass-Drums (The Patrice Rushen Trio) at the '596.'


----------



## nututubes

If you have a WA22, a balanced source, and HD800s, please try this combo: TS 7236 power tubes, Mullard brown base ECC 32s driver,  and EML 5U4g rectifier.
   
  I have had my WA22 for almost 10 months now. I have TS oval 6SN7 BGRP, Sylvania 1952 Bad Boys, Shuguang Treasures, Sylvania 7N7, TS 6F8G, Sylvania 6SN7 W metal Base and other nice NOS drivers.
  I have GEC 6AS7, GEC 6080, TS 5998, TS 6520, TS 7236, Sylvania 7236 and other nice NOS power tubes.
  I have Princess 274b, EML 5U4g, TS 5U4G, Mullard GZ 33, GZ37 as well as other rectifiers.
  After months of rolling, I think I have found what I want.
  YMMV.


----------



## grokit

Wow those are some pricey tubes. Have you compared with the black base, or the ECC 33?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> somewhere on the forums i read that the WA22 is only for balanced and if you use the regular unbalanced connection it has, its about the same as the WA6SE and a maxed WA6SE would be slightly better than the *unbalanced output* of the WA22. that according to Jack Woo himself.


 


  Small correction...a balanced *input *to the WA22 (from Jack). But once it's balanced....look out!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

o ok thanks.
   
  hmm i wonder how much better the WA5 is compared to the WA6SE since WA22 is mostly for balanced setups
   
  i know i'm comparing my WA6SE to the couple of 300-400 dollar amps i've heard in the past and i'm completely blown away by how amazing it sounds, i cannot find any major flaws in the WA6SE, its like near perfection in my eyes 
   
  i wonder how much better i would do with a higher priced amp and maybe a DAC upgrade, like how close does the WA6SE come to top tier quality amps in the $2500+ price range?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> If you have a WA22, a balanced source, and HD800s, please try this combo: TS 7236 power tubes, Mullard brown base ECC 32s driver,  and EML 5U4g rectifier.
> 
> I have had my WA22 for almost 10 months now. I have TS oval 6SN7 BGRP, Sylvania 1952 Bad Boys, Shuguang Treasures, Sylvania 7N7, TS 6F8G, Sylvania 6SN7 W metal Base and other nice NOS drivers.
> I have GEC 6AS7, GEC 6080, TS 5998, TS 6520, TS 7236, Sylvania 7236 and other nice NOS power tubes.
> ...


 


   
  Sweet tubes, ECC are a little too rich for my blood (used the money saved o get a balanced beta22 build, i should have it in couple weeks).  I'm extremely happy with the following late on LCD-2 r2.
   
  TS 7236, NU 6F8G, and Mullard GZ37.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> o ok thanks.
> 
> hmm i wonder how much better the WA5 is compared to the WA6SE since WA22 is mostly for balanced setups
> 
> ...


 


 This is what exactly my path on Woo's amp, WA6SE-->WA22-->WA5LE. They have very similar sound signature but with significant improvement in every aspect. I was doubt about the sound from the WA5LE when I have the amp received compare with the WA22, they sound very similar and I can't find the audible improvement as expected. The WA5LE was bought second hand and the previous owner mentioned it come with less than 100 hrs of burn-in so I let it run for other 150 hrs, 5-8 hrs a day. I then realized that the balanced source for the WA22 is a must to make it sings but not simply the same as the WA5LE if you have a relatively good source to feed it. THe WA5LE is totally an improvement than my crazy modded WA22 (you can find that in the earlier post), it sounds fuller, more lush in highs to mids and more controlled in bass. I just love how it sound almost with every genre of music from it.
   
  Of course, the better the source with will always make the WA5LE sound better as expect.


----------



## john57

I find that the WA5LE to be good at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and I was using it to try out different headphones at the event. For a period of time I had the entire Woo table all to myselve.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have the GZ33 back in the amp now to try with a few of the drop-in tubes.  First up are a pair of recently acquired British made GE 6EW7s.  I tried them with the Brimar 5R4 and found the pretty nice sounding, but a bit aggressive in the upper mids.  Next I put the Tung Sol 5U4G in and didn't care for the sound at all.  No tautness or focus and it sounded harsh at the edges with less detail all around.  With the GZ33 in these tubes sound great.  They actually mellowed out tonally speaking, no brightness or hot mids at all, and everything has a very natural clarity.  Much improved bass tautness and a very natural soundstage, something the 6EW7 can often make sound unnaturally wide.  It makes me want to try the other 6EW7 and 6FD7 now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> If you have a WA22, a balanced source, and HD800s, please try this combo: TS 7236 power tubes, Mullard brown base ECC 32s driver,  and EML 5U4g rectifier.
> 
> I have had my WA22 for almost 10 months now. I have TS oval 6SN7 BGRP, Sylvania 1952 Bad Boys, Shuguang Treasures, Sylvania 7N7, TS 6F8G, Sylvania 6SN7 W metal Base and other nice NOS drivers.
> I have GEC 6AS7, GEC 6080, TS 5998, TS 6520, TS 7236, Sylvania 7236 and other nice NOS power tubes.
> ...


 


  You kept quite the focus and keep quite the collection... nice bounty!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Wow those are some pricey tubes. Have you compared with the black base, or the ECC 33?


 

 Yes they are a bit expensive, especially if you like them enough to buy a spare pair.
  And I do like them. I have not tried the black base or the 33s, yet.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You kept quite the focus and keep quite the collection... nice bounty!


 

 It's easy to stay focused and broke when you read these forum pages


----------



## dannie01

The 596 rectifiers and Glenn's adapters finally both received today. These tubes are HUGH compare to Mullard GZ34 and 37, almost as tall as the EML 5U4G and you can see from the pics below (please forgive me the messy cable management) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, they are as big as the EAT 300B and look very special. They are also heavier than expect, maybe the different construction make how it weight. Only one and a half hour on the amp but I admit that the previous impression of these tubes are right, they sound fuller than the Mullard. The texture of highs to mids are so nice, not a lush highs like the Mullard or EML but still very nice and with different presentation. Soundstage is not as wide as the EML but not conjested at all, sound very open.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The 596 rectifiers and Glenn's adapters finally both received today. These tubes are HUGH compare to Mullard GZ34 and 37, almost as tall as the EML 5U4G and you can see from the pics below (please forgive me the messy cable management)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Congrats Dannie!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in-session right now with the '596' and this bad boy swings! I took its temperature a few times (different days) and it runs cool in the power supply. Should've been in bed a few hours ago but I'm listening to some Vintage Sly & The Family Stone (1968-69) and they sound deliciously good! 
   
  A real band playing real music - drums, cymbal crashes, tight but thumping bass, melodic piano/synths, good vocals and fun lyrics. The band has wicked energy. They blew my mind - I am wide awake (so, what now?). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Additional thoughts: Your twin Recs look majestic sitting atop the P/S. The cabinet design with covey holes... to "Cat proof" your Woo? I do know some cats like to lay on top or along side amps.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> This is what exactly my path on Woo's amp, WA6SE-->WA22-->WA5LE. They have very similar sound signature but with significant improvement in every aspect. I was doubt about the sound from the WA5LE when I have the amp received compare with the WA22, they sound very similar and I can't find the audible improvement as expected. The WA5LE was bought second hand and the previous owner mentioned it come with less than 100 hrs of burn-in so I let it run for other 150 hrs, 5-8 hrs a day. I then realized that the balanced source for the WA22 is a must to make it sings but not simply the same as the WA5LE if you have a relatively good source to feed it. *THe WA5LE is totally an improvement than my crazy modded WA22* (you can find that in the earlier post), it sounds fuller, more lush in highs to mids and more controlled in bass. I just love how it sound almost with every genre of music from it.
> 
> Of course, the better the source with will always make the WA5LE sound better as expect.


 

  
  Please tell me you will take that back and I did not read that...  my wallet will hate you...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats Dannie!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Right, it only runs cool not as hot as the EML and Mullard. And my rig in the rack are real safe, both my 2 cats never play around there because they know they will in danger when get close to my gears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please tell me you will take that back and I did not read that...  my wallet will hate you...


 


 NO REFUND, MAN. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you have an option, get my WA5LE and I will grab a new WA5................................


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> It's easy to stay focused and broke when you read these forum pages


 


 You are absolutely right, nututubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> NO REFUND, MAN.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 you are a devil just like me.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> you are a devil just like me.


 









 You never wrong with this.


----------



## Pudu

A quick question regarding the input selector on the WA2 and similar. 

Is it a bad idea to switch twixt inputs while playing at listening volume for the purpose of A-B ing sources?


Gotta say I've totally fallen in love with this WA2-T1 combo. I've always thought I preferred a neutral, detailed sound signature, and I definitely do for much of my music (love my 1350's too). But I'm listening to Tom Waits _Used Songs_ right now...and it's wonderful. The music just melts into you and saturates your senses. I didn't expect this. It's very, very good.


----------



## Silent One

United Electronics Company USAF-596
   
  In dannie01's experience, he found the '596' to have a smaller soundstage than the EML. I'm not that rich and can only report _my single '596' rectifier_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 has a soundstage of equal size to that of my EML 5U4G. But the former sounds bigger, more open with slightly increased depth. Any other users find the '596' to have a somewhat smaller soundstage than the EML?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> A quick question regarding the input selector on the WA2 and similar.
> Is it a bad idea to switch twixt inputs while playing at listening volume for the purpose of A-B ing sources?
> Gotta say I've totally fallen in love with this WA2-T1 combo. I've always thought I preferred a neutral, detailed sound signature, and I definitely do for much of my music (love my 1350's too). But I'm listening to Tom Waits _Used Songs_ right now...and it's wonderful. The music just melts into you and saturates your senses. I didn't expect this. It's very, very good.


 


  Your_ listening volume _could be different from my own_ listening volume_. But as standard practice, any changes involving the Woo and I minimize the volume if the amp doesn't require shutting down (inputs, HP's ect). Your enjoyment of Tom Waits makes me wanna run out and buy new music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's very exciting and contagious when others are really enjoying music.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





pudu said:


> A quick question regarding the input selector on the WA2 and similar.
> Is it a bad idea to switch twixt inputs while playing at listening volume for the purpose of A-B ing sources?
> Gotta say I've totally fallen in love with this WA2-T1 combo. I've always thought I preferred a neutral, detailed sound signature, and I definitely do for much of my music (love my 1350's too). But I'm listening to Tom Waits _Used Songs_ right now...and it's wonderful. The music just melts into you and saturates your senses. I didn't expect this. It's very, very good.


 
   
  Go ahead and use the input selector switch but don't mess with your rca cables while the amp is powered on or bad things will happen


----------



## Silent One

I can understand the excitement one might have with switching back-and-forth. But likely, if any differences were too close to call, guess what time these differences would likely become apparent? _E-x-t-e-n-d-e-d . . .  _


----------



## Pudu

Thanks for the advice lads.

It's actually that I have a few sources that I've never really compared on the same system and using the selector is so much easier than unplugging and plugging cables so I thought it might be a good opportunity to finally try some comparisons. 

Basically I'm lazy. 

But truthfully, a glass of El Dorado 15 and Mr Waits means I'm not changing the dial anytime soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Thanks for the advice lads.
> It's actually that I have a few sources that I've never really compared on the same system and using the selector is so much easier than unplugging and plugging cables so I thought it might be a good opportunity to finally try some comparisons.
> Basically I'm lazy.
> But truthfully, a glass of El Dorado 15 and Mr Waits means I'm not changing the dial anytime soon.


 


  Being lazy no longer exists when a glass of El Dorado 15 and Mr. Waits _becomes a moment in time_... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The selector is so much easier - at this point I just note the position of the volume pot before turning it down and flicking the switch. Unplugging makes for a convenient break (cool down).


----------



## grokit

Yes I should have added that, make sure the volume is down before switching sources with the input selector.


----------



## Clayton SF

He guys--We just had a 4.2 earthquake here in San Francisco and the first thing I did was call my neighbor and had him go into my apartment to make sure that all of my Woo amps were all okay. And they are! Oh--the Leben is doing fine as well.
   
  Hey Silent One and mikemalter: did y'all feel this afternoon's quake?
   
  Now back to work.


----------



## xinque

Not that I'm in an earthquake zone or anything, but what would happen if something were to break open a tube while it was powered?  Pyrotechnics?  Fires?  Toxic Gas?  Nothing?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've often wondered myself how dangerous a tube would be if the glass shattered.  There is a vacuum inside after all, so I imagine it may send glass shards flaying a few feet at the very least.  What happens to the amp probably depends upon which tube failed I suppose.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> He guys--We just had a 4.2 earthquake here in San Francisco and the first thing I did was call my neighbor and had him go into my apartment to make sure that all of my Woo amps were all okay. And they are! Oh--the Leben is doing fine as well.
> 
> Hey Silent One and mikemalter: did y'all feel this afternoon's quake?
> 
> Now back to work.


 


  No. But then, whatever leftover tremors came east didn't get my attention while running errands. Good to hear your Boutique is fine.


----------



## Silent One

I've often wondered about the toxicity of older tubes (early poisonous types) breaking open... and my health. Will search online for clues and tips in case of breakage inside the listening room.


----------



## Silent One

Additional Show Notes (RMAF) highlighting Woo Audio and others...
   
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Rocky-Mountain-Audiofest-2011-Show-Notes


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> He guys--We just had a 4.2 earthquake here in San Francisco and the first thing I did was call my neighbor and had him go into my apartment to make sure that all of my Woo amps were all okay. And they are! Oh--the Leben is doing fine as well.
> 
> Hey Silent One and mikemalter: did y'all feel this afternoon's quake?
> 
> Now back to work.


 

 Yes, I was coding away and all of a sudden my monitors started shaking.  I thought, I can't be typing that hard!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've often wondered myself how dangerous a tube would be if the glass shattered.  There is a vacuum inside after all, so I imagine it may send glass shards flaying a few feet at the very least.  What happens to the amp probably depends upon which tube failed I suppose.


 

 I dropped a tube once, and all that happened was the glass cracked, and there was this film or something that kept the glass all together.  Sucked, it was an RCA 6080 one of my favorite tubes!  All the shiny stuff inside instantly turned white.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I dropped a tube once, and all that happened was the glass cracked, and there was this film or something that kept the glass all together.  Sucked, it was an RCA 6080 one of my favorite tubes!  All the shiny stuff inside instantly turned white.


 


  I'm almost certain in the split second you had, chose correctly to save the hot cafe bowl you were carrying over the tube.


----------



## PanamaRed

I dropped a el84 a few weeks ago. Worst part is it was one of a matched set.


----------



## Marburger

WA6 thread became an earthquake thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Can somebody compare stock WA6 and WA6 with parts upgrade (v cap and blackgates) ?  Are the difference is worth upgrading to better parts?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

you're probably better off buying a stock WA6SE than getting upgrades for the WA6


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I dropped a el84 a few weeks ago. Worst part is it was one of a matched set.


 

 I once watched in horror as a Mullard 5AR4 I dropped shattered on the ground.  It was horrifying.  The whole thing seemed like it was happening in slow motion.


----------



## Silent One

Safe handling ~
   
  Perhaps, someone with more tube knowledge and experience than I, should write a brief note on how to safely clean up & discard a broken (shattered) tube. 2359glenn? Skylab?? Someone up for this quick contribution?


----------



## Skylab

I've only ever used a vacuum cleaner.  But I do think it's important to clean them up quickly.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've only ever used a vacuum cleaner.  But I do think it's important to clean them up quickly.


 


  If the little one is (potentially) toxic, wouldn't it contaminate the vacuum cleaner?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If the little one is (potentially) toxic, wouldn't it contaminate the vacuum cleaner?


 

 I would not use a vacuum cleaner even if on a rug.  I'd use a broom or pick up the glass by hand.


----------



## Clayton SF

I once shattered an RCA 5U4G ST tube which was wrapped in a sealed Ziploc sandwich bag and stuffed in its box. When I dropped a object on the tube it shattered in the bag so I just tossed the whole thing out. That was my only experience shattering a tube. It had imploded in a self-contained bag--after that the box sounded like a maraca when I shook it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I once shattered an RCA 5U4G ST tube which was wrapped in a sealed Ziploc sandwich bag and stuffed in its box. When I dropped a object on the tube it shattered in the bag so I just tossed the whole thing out. That was my only experience shattering a tube. It had imploded in a self-contained bag--after that the box sounded like a maraca when I shook it.


 


  Upon meeting you, my first impression was that you were neat-considerate-thoughtful. Your example proves that you are indeed!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If the little one is (potentially) toxic, wouldn't it contaminate the vacuum cleaner?


 


  I did some reading on the subject, and I think the primary concern is the existence of trace amounts of cadmium inside most tubes.  Cadmium is toxic and there is such a thing as cadmium poisoning, though it is not as dangerous as something like, say, mercury would be.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Additional Show Notes (RMAF) highlighting Woo Audio and others...
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Rocky-Mountain-Audiofest-2011-Show-Notes


 


  Of all the pictures of the 234s, that was the first was to show the information placard.  Some interesting tidbits on it, including the fact that Jack has implemented V-caps in the design as standard.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Of all the pictures of the 234s, that was the first was to show the information placard.  Some interesting tidbits on it, including the fact that Jack has implemented V-caps in the design as standard.


 


  As a CA member, I'm proud they of way they cover audio events here at home and abroad.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I did some reading on the subject, and I think the primary concern is the existence of trace amounts of cadmium inside most tubes.  Cadmium is toxic and there is such a thing as cadmium poisoning, though it is not as dangerous as something like, say, mercury would be.


 


  Hoping I'll never face a clean-up, but if I do, I'm going to clean up, carefully and quickly. And then do a follow up next day...


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I once watched in horror as a Mullard 5AR4 I dropped shattered on the ground.  It was horrifying.  The whole thing seemed like it was happening in slow motion.


 


  Ouch. That sucks. My excuse was that I was wearing medical nitrile gloves to handle the tubes. The damn things have no grip.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Of all the pictures of the 234s, that was the first was to show the information placard.  Some interesting tidbits on it, including the fact that Jack has implemented V-caps in the design as standard.


 

 V-Caps, nice.


----------



## kchew

Glenn has just shipped off my 596 adaptor and I have a pair of 596s flying to me right now, now I can't wait to join the Woo Audio + 596 tube club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Has anyone tried the ECC33 with their Woos before? It's supposed to be closer to 6SN7 spec as compared to the ECC32, but it doesn't show up on the Woo Audio tube compatibility chart, which I thought was weird.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Glenn has just shipped off my 596 adaptor and I have a pair of 596s flying to me right now, now I can't wait to join the Woo Audio + 596 tube club.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Great! Looking forward to getting your impressions with the new glass.


----------



## mikemalter

Just wanted to post about my new connectors from Double Helix Cables.  Have a really nice cable that came with my LCD-2 which is the ALO universal cable with a number of adapters.  The Double Helix Cable adapters will take any LCD-2 terminated cable and provide a link to most headphones.  So, now I can use that really nice ALO cable with both my LCD-2 and HD800.  I think this is a really nice way to go in that you can get one really super nice cable, and then use it on all of your headphones.
   
  For the past several HD headphone iterations I have always used the Cardas upgrade, but I like the adapter approach which Cardas does not offer.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, the sun is out and it is hot in San Francisco. So thought I'd take some pictures of my WooTwo and WooFour with the new iPhone 4S. I'd say not bad for a phone camera. No longer do I have to apologize for using my cell phone to take a picture.
   
  Mike, if it is a hot afternoon here in SF then it must be hotter in San Rafael.
   
  Now back to the music.
   
_Click on 'em for a bigger version._


----------



## danne

Pretty nice quality on those photos for beeing from an iphone and the Woo is looking lovely as always


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Of all the pictures of the 234s, that was the first was to show the information placard.  Some interesting tidbits on it, including the fact that Jack has implemented V-caps in the design as standard.


 


  I can't wait for one of our head-fier's to bring that bad boy home, get r-e-a-l intimate with it. Then post photos, impressions... then more photos just because we enjoy Woo candy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just wanted to post about my new connectors from Double Helix Cables.  Have a really nice cable that came with my LCD-2 which is the ALO universal cable with a number of adapters.  The Double Helix Cable adapters will take any LCD-2 terminated cable and provide a link to most headphones.  So, now I can use that really nice ALO cable with both my LCD-2 and HD800.  I think this is a really nice way to go in that you can get one really super nice cable, and then use it on all of your headphones.
> 
> For the past several HD headphone iterations I have always used the Cardas upgrade, but I like the adapter approach which Cardas does not offer.


 

  
  This is good. That was a niche just waiting to get filled. It seems Audez'e's collaborations with other vendors are paying dividends to the audio audience at-large. Also, Ken (ALO Audio) deserves special mention in this regard because I spoke to him a few times by phone last year and it was apparent his enthusiasm and energy was directed at _"What can I do to make the audio industry better?_" And shared what he'd like to see happen, not limiting his focus merely on what he can sell. The mantra "A rising tide lifts all boats" comes to my mind when speaking to him. We could use more audio enthusiasts in the business.
   
  Enjoy your cans while you can! The next _not-so-silen_t knock on the door might be from yours truly...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danne said:


> Pretty nice quality on those photos for beeing from an iphone and the Woo is looking lovely as always


 


  Clayton SF's Woo ensemble always does it for me! Also, when viewing other members' amps, I try to imagine what artist/group recently flowed through their Woo.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> Clayton SF's Woo ensemble always does it for me! Also, when viewing other members' amps, I try to imagine what artist/group recently flowed through their Woo.




LOL, nice. I like that image.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, the sun is out and it is hot in San Francisco. So thought I'd take some pictures of my WooTwo and WooFour with the new iPhone 4S. I'd say not bad for a phone camera. No longer do I have to apologize for using my cell phone to take a picture.
> 
> Mike, if it is a hot afternoon here in SF then it must be hotter in San Rafael.
> 
> ...


 
  Really nice pictures, Clayton.  The iPhone 4 does have a really nice camera.  Yes, it is really nice and sunny today in San Rafael.  It's the kind of a hot day that suggests it will be getting cold soon as opposed to the hot days of the summer which suggested to me it was going to be hot for a while.  I really do love indian summer.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is good. That was a niche just waiting to get filled. It seems Audez'e's collaborations with other vendors are paying dividends to the audio audience at-large. Also, Ken (ALO Audio) deserves special mention in this regard because I spoke to him a few times by phone last year and it was apparent his enthusiasm and energy was directed at _"What can I do to make the audio industry better?_" And shared what he'd like to see happen, not limiting his focus merely on what he can sell. The mantra "A rising tide lifts all boats" comes to my mind when speaking to him. We could use more audio enthusiasts in the business.
> 
> Enjoy your cans while you can! The next _not-so-silen_t knock on the door might be from yours truly...


 

 You are, of course, welcome at any time as always.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You are, of course, welcome at any time as always.


 


  Thanks, sir! Autumn is a time of harvest and reflection. With the recent changes made to your system, you can now realize both of these things... and I, your witness.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Clayton SF's Woo ensemble always does it for me! Also, when viewing other members' amps, I try to imagine what artist/group recently flowed through their Woo.


 

 Thanks!
  Right now, _Niels Lan Doky, Return to Denmark_ is flowing thru the WA4 tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks!
> Right now, _Niels Lan Doky, Return to Denmark_ is flowing thru the WA4 tubes.


 

  
  Ah, a very relaxing Saturday for you. Curiously, how would you characterize the sound of the '4' in relation to the '6' & '22?' I do remember you sayin' it was _stuffed-to-the-gills_ with premium caps. Can't wait to meet up with you and hear it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ah, a very relaxing Saturday for you. Curiously, how would you characterize the sound of the '4' in relation to the '6' & '22?' I do remember you sayin' it was _stuffed-to-the-gills_ with premium caps. Can't wait to meet up with you and hear it.


 
   
  I'd characterize it as a very warm sounding amp. Bottom heavy and lush. At least with the tubes I am using. The mids are not recessed and the highs are slightly rolled off at the top. It could be from the over abundance of bass with my DT990 600 ohms. Its sound is incredible--almost made for full-blow orchestrated soundtracks and perhaps Electronic Jazz like _Vein Melter _off of Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters LP. _Vein Melter_ is an incredible cut that will set any day at ease.


----------



## mikemalter

I've got Wes Montgomery & Milt Jackon in the house!


----------



## mikemalter




----------



## grmnasasin0227

What gives? I've been diligently reading 20 posts a day, so 100 posts a week at work (at page 600 at the moment) of this nearly-1000 page thread and I'm the first one to mention something? Woo announced the WA234 Mono on their site!
   
  http://wooaudio.com/products/wa234mono/


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> What gives? I've been diligently reading 20 posts a day, so 100 posts a week at work (at page 600 at the moment) of this nearly-1000 page thread and I'm the first one to mention something? Woo announced the WA234 Mono on their site!
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/products/wa234mono/


 

 Congrats!  I heard that the first person to post this in the Woo thread gets a free one.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I have always loved the camaraderie on this thread.  Makes me sad that I live in the middle of nowhere and cannot meet with any of you in person.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> What gives? I've been diligently reading 20 posts a day, so 100 posts a week at work (at page 600 at the moment) of this nearly-1000 page thread and I'm the first one to mention something? Woo announced the WA234 Mono on their site!
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/products/wa234mono/


 


  As much as I appreciate and respect them for pushing the state of the art and introducing new ideas, at the end of the day they are still $10,000 and I just cannot get that excited over something I will never, ever own.  I mean even if I *had* the money I still wouldn't, it is just more than the vast majority of people need.  If the design work on this product leads to improvements in the rest of the Woo lineup, then THAT is something to be excited about if you ask me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'd characterize it as a very warm sounding amp. Bottom heavy and lush. At least with the tubes I am using. The mids are not recessed and the highs are slightly rolled off at the top. It could be from the over abundance of bass with my DT990 600 ohms. Its sound is incredible--almost made for full-blow orchestrated soundtracks and perhaps Electronic Jazz like _Vein Melter _off of Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters LP. _Vein Melter_ is an incredible cut that will set any day at ease.


 

 Head Hunters - truly groundbreaking in its time! My absolute favorite cut on there is "Chameleon." A track I listen to when evaluating new components, accessories and tweaks. @ 15+ minutes, a delight! Which of the WA22 & WA4 would you say this "Chameleon" would sound most spooky, eerily delicious? When I come by, will have to sample that without a doubt!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Head Hunters - truly groundbreaking in its time! My absolute favorite cut on there is "Chameleon." A track I listen to when evaluating new components, accessories and tweaks. @ 15+ minutes, a delight! Which of the WA22 & WA4 would you say this "Chameleon" would sound most spooky, eerily delicious? When I come by, will have to sample that without a doubt!


 

 Oh, without a doubt it would have to be the 22. Spoooooooooky, eerily delicious-yes. As if the tubes themselves had the spirits powering them. You can hear them swirling about in the 596 for sure!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> As much as I appreciate and respect them for pushing the state of the art and introducing new ideas, at the end of the day they are still $10,000 and I just cannot get that excited over something I will never, ever own.  I mean even if I *had* the money I still wouldn't, it is just more than the vast majority of people need.  If the design work on this product leads to improvements in the rest of the Woo lineup, then THAT is something to be excited about if you ask me.


 

 I am excited about their pursuit of new horizons. This energy can bear fruit in other ways in the future line. I would love to hear more about this flagship too. But my days won't be spent any differently one way or the other. Except for more green tea when the weather dips!


----------



## Clayton SF

Perhaps I could just pick up one of them for $5,000 and listen to only mono recordings.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh, without a doubt it would have to be the 22. Spoooooooooky, eerily delicious-yes. As if the tubes themselves had the spirits powering them. You can hear them swirling about in the 596 for sure!


 


  OH, THAT'S RIGHT! You have the '596' to boot! I'm working hard (overtime) to plan a visit to see you, mikemalter and shipsupt during the month of November if I can get away that much in a single month. I'm good at sweetening-the-pot for others; entirely doable.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Congrats!  I heard that the first person to post this in the Woo thread gets a free one.


 


  That would be me then.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Where can I send my delivery address?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I've got Wes Montgomery & Milt Jackon in the house!


 


_What you've got_ is good taste in the house!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That would be me then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Does this mean all of our previous mentions have vanished (deleted)?! I'm almost certain there have been several questions and comments on the Woo flagship in this space. W_ait... it's a trap!_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The new Woo amps.  what do you think about the look?


 
   
  But of course--it _was_ you that mentioned the _*Noo Woo*_ back on page 966! I remember! How could I forget? The look certainly is progressive. Like those modern buildings popping up all over Europe.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I have always loved the camaraderie on this thread.  Makes me sad that I live in the middle of nowhere and cannot meet with any of you in person.


 


  Someday, it will be great if one or five of us have an opportunity to meet with you. You might have reason to come to Los Angeles or The San Francisco-Oakland Bay Area. Or, one of us traveling through your area... with gear!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But of course--it _was_ you that mentioned the _*Noo Woo*_ back on page 966! I remember! How could I forget? The look certainly is progressive. Like those modern buildings popping up all over Europe.


 
  I understand there are tiny elevators inside...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But of course--it _was_ you that mentioned the _*Noo Woo*_ back on page 966! I remember! How could I forget? The look certainly is progressive. Like those modern buildings popping up all over Europe.


 


  I'm waiting for WarriorAnt to let us know how he really feels about the new look of the flagship!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm waiting for WarriorAnt to let us know how he really feels about the new look of the flagship!


 


  More tubes for $10K.  More tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Perhaps we can install a communal bench for the next meet and have Jack bring his new amp.
  All things Woo--United we stand--or sit, in this case, on a bench that would compliment Jack's_* NooWoo*_!
  Go for Modernism Architecture, Jack!
  Your new amp ROCKS across the visual as well as the audio world. YES!
   
  OH SORRY. It's Saturday. All in fun, guys--yes?
   
_Clickus_ on the picture for _maximus_ viewing pleasure.


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> More tubes for $10K.  More tubes.




Agreed. This one looks like it's missing its lampshade in my opinion.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> What gives? I've been diligently reading 20 posts a day, so 100 posts a week at work (at page 600 at the moment) of this nearly-1000 page thread and I'm the first one to mention something? Woo announced the WA234 Mono on their site!
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/products/wa234mono/


 

 I can answer that! But, I'm more interested in learning what your initial impressions are. Upon seeing the amp's design, what was your reaction? Love it, leave it or neutral? Also, do you like the tube switching concept that Eddie Current & Woo are now employing in their amps? Will you be getting one in 2012?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> More tubes for $10K.  More tubes.


 


  You know, despite how much those tubes costs, I agree.  Having the same tube complement as the WA5 was a bit of a letdown...... there should be more glass atop those behemoths.  I also wonder about the 2A3, 45, and 300B switching ability too.  Anybody who is looking to spend this much money on an amp probably already has a clear preference and isn't looking to "try out" different sounds.  Out of those 3 the 300B makes the most power making it the preferable choice for driving today's power hungry cans..... so, there we have it:  the same tube complement as the WA5.


----------



## Silent One

I agree with the point you made on the whole switching concept, Xcalibur255! Unless I got dough like Pillsbury, my preference will be for the 300B and if money permits, simple get another amp or two with the other tubes. Plus, I want to enjoy the music!
   
  Although, playing with gear is fun, I don't always have time to luxuriate cafeside. Sometimes during the month,_ I just need to be able to grab my two biscuits and go! Or maple scones.._. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I suspect the new generation hard-to-drive Orthos played a role in this design. But at those prices, I really don't need (want?) a Jack-of-all-trades. Now, the knowledge they'll gain from all of this could lend to improvements with the existing line in the months ahead.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> What gives? I've been diligently reading 20 posts a day, _*so 100 posts a week at work *_(at page 600 at the moment) of this nearly-1000 page thread and I'm the first one to mention something? Woo announced the WA234 Mono on their site!
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/products/wa234mono/


 
*At work?* (at play). I must say that it indeed was WarriorAnt who graciously introduced this thread the to WA234. I had to go back in time myself to make sure it was _*he who did show us the new Woo!  *_'cause I git easily distracted by nice shiny objects....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Really nice pictures, Clayton.  The iPhone 4 does have a really nice camera.  Yes, it is really nice and sunny today in San Rafael.  It's the kind of a hot day that suggests it will be getting cold soon as opposed to the hot days of the summer which suggested to me it was going to be hot for a while.  I really do love indian summer.


 

  
   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, the sun is out and it is hot in San Francisco. So thought I'd take some pictures of my WooTwo and WooFour with the new iPhone 4S. I'd say not bad for a phone camera. No longer do I have to apologize for using my cell phone to take a picture.
> 
> Mike, if it is a hot afternoon here in SF then it must be hotter in San Rafael.
> 
> ...


 


   
   
  These pics make me wanna buy a WA2 so bad despite the fact i already have a WA6SE
   
  Woo Audio <3


----------



## Silent One

Can anyone report seeing internal pix of the WA234 yet?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> These pics make me wanna buy a WA2 so bad despite the fact i already have a WA6SE
> 
> Woo Audio <3


 

 Can you make out the WA2's silhouette on your horizon? It sounds like you would be really happy with both. Now, time for me to prep dinner and tonight's playlist.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> What gives? I've been diligently reading 20 posts a day, so 100 posts a week at work (at page 600 at the moment) of this nearly-1000 page thread and I'm the first one to mention something? Woo announced the WA234 Mono on their site!


 
   
  This amp is going to cause havoc in their "Amplifier Comparisons chart."
   
  What hyperbolic superlative resides above "surreal?"


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can you make out the WA2's silhouette on your horizon? It sounds like you would be really happy with both. Now, time for me to prep dinner and tonight's playlist.


 


  yeah i think instead of buying T1s im gonna get the WA2 to complement the WA6SE
   
  and awesome! lol i only got 1 hour of sleep last night so im going to bed soon, please do post what u listen to tho


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> This amp is going to cause havoc in their "Amplifier Comparisons chart."
> 
> What hyperbolic superlative resides above "surreal?"


 


  And I thought the chart was fun to begin with...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That would be me then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You get one free, the other costs $ 10,000.00.


----------



## Pudu

dubstep girl said:


> yeah i think instead of buying T1s im gonna get the WA2 to complement the WA6SE
> 
> and awesome! lol i only got 1 hour of sleep last night so im going to bed soon, please do post what u listen to tho





Wise decision. Since I got the WA2 - T1 combo I haven't gotten a proper night's sleep. Tonight's deprevators are Ella & Louis. 


....



But it's SOOOOOO worth it. 


Yawn.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You get one free, the other costs $ 10,000.00.


 


  Rats!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Wise decision. Since I got the WA2 - T1 combo I haven't gotten a proper night's sleep. Tonight's deprevators are Ella & Louis.
> ....
> But it's SOOOOOO worth it.
> Yawn.


 


  Dubstep Girl may want to revisit WA2 headphone pairings from other users because she mentioned forgoing the T1 to obtain the WA2. By all accounts I read, this was a magical pairing. Perhaps, Macedonian Hero can step in and advise her based on what she has and what she wants...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Wise decision. Since I got the WA2 - T1 combo I haven't gotten a proper night's sleep. Tonight's deprevators are Ella & Louis.
> ....
> But it's SOOOOOO worth it.
> Yawn.


 


  I've been meaning to download Ella & Louis "Can't We Be Friends?" from HDTracks (24/96) for a while now. I keep spending those tea tin dollars on other aspects of the system and not music. After your mention, I think I'll do it post 1 November. The very first time I played Ella's "How High The Moon?" (Decca Recordings) her voice literally floated across the room. 
   
  And the _WA 6 Special Edition_ isn't even considered euphonic!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah i think instead of buying T1s im gonna get the WA2 to complement the WA6SE
> 
> and awesome! lol i only got 1 hour of sleep last night so im going to bed soon, please do post what u listen to tho


 


  Still breaking in the United Electronics Company USAF-596. Approximately 36 hours on the glass now - desirable since hour zero through 36; pursuing 150 hour minimum with delight. Late Saturday Night Session... so I bring out the bigger surprise to start things off. As Dr Funkenstein use to wax... _"The Bigger the headache, the Bigger the pill." _
   

 Up first, the amazing DVD-Audio disc "Starker Plays Baker" - Janos Starker 24/96. The selections are well balanced. The songs will taunt-tease-dare-please many listeners on a revealing system. Sometimes in between selections, sometimes inside the same track. There's enjoyment for everyone, I highly recommend this disc! Click summary below for greater detail about how the recording was made:
   

   
  Then I continued with more Janos Starker and the CD "Perspectives." 16/44.1. Then filled out the morning with stray tracks worthy of my attention day or night:
   
  "(Don't Worry) If There's A Hell Below We're All Going To Go"  7:52   Curtis Mayfield   16/44.1
  "Pusherman"   5:04   Curtis Mayfield   16/44.1
  "The Ghetto"   6:54   Donny Hathaway   16/44.1
  "New Frontier"   6:22   Donald Fagen   24/48    
  "53 Miles West Of Venus"   4:53   The B-52's  16/44.1
  "Don't Ask Me No Questions"   3:09   B.B.King   16/44.1
  "Stratus"   9:49   Billy Cobham   16/44.1
  "Mighty Mighty"   3:03   Earth, Wind & Fire   24/96
  "Vizinha Ka Bale (My neighbor is no good)"   4:46   Jacinta Sanches
  "Hyperbolic-Syllabicsesque-Dalymystic"   9:33   Isaac Hayes   16/44.1
  "Got To Give It Up"   11:55   Marvin Gaye   16/44.1
   
  And then there's Sunday Night's Session still to come... (I'm predicting "Weather Report" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

T1 and WA2!!?!??
   
  this is so expensive!!!!!
   
  and that would be a stock WA2 for a while too!!
   
  hmm... it might happen, i don't know yet though, how much different the T1 is from the headphones i already have.
   
  i know the amp will definitely be a different experience since the WA2 is warmer and more euphonic and whatnot.
  i just feel that WA2 calling to me more and more, its like buy me! <3
   
   
  hmm interesting selection of music, gotta listen to some of those. how;d u get that earth wind and fire in 24/96?
  btw it seems a WA2 would go well with your type of music too.
   
   
  currently listening to Pretty Lights - Spilling over every side EP and Taking up your precious time album (16/44.1 flac) with my HD 650s,  they're more dubstep-ish now but i like their unique style.
   
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boGsu0gfkEM
   
  love this song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNWvnz8_KqU
   
  since this music is more laid-back compared to regular dubstep, i find hd 650s to be better than my dt 990s for them  just gives that music that warm liquid midrange and analog sound it needs


----------



## xinque

Went the short route for me, from a Schiit Lyr (my first amp) to maxxed WA5.  Figured I'd save in the long run between buying and re-selling amps at a loss for incremental upgrades.  Yeah, I know I missed on the whole audiophile journey thing - but there's still tube rolling and just spending money on music instead of gear for me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Went the short route for me, from a Schiit Lyr (my first amp) to maxxed WA5.  Figured I'd save in the long run between buying and re-selling amps at a loss for incremental upgrades.  Yeah, I know I missed on the whole audiophile journey thing - but there's still tube rolling and just spending money on music instead of gear for me.


 

 This is a move that made sense when I first reviewed Woo Audio's website. I decided I'd start saving for a WA6 sans the Max version and in three years get a WA5 Maxxed... until employment fell short. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But, that was the plan.
   
  The revised plan is to now enjoy my WA6SE and vintage SX-650 and leap only when safe to do so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After all, there's so much music to enjoy in between stops.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> T1 and WA2!!?!??
> 
> this is so expensive!!!!!
> 
> ...


 

 WA2 & T1 combo isn't the only magical pairing! Rather, a more recent one. With the cans you now have inside your listening room, you could easily achieve a state of reverie. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I import my vinyl with the E-MU 0404 USB (4 inputs, 4 outputs). TT > E-MU > Mac (S/PDIF Optical out from E-MU to analogue In on the Mac). E-MU/Mac = 24/96; E-MU/PC = 24/192 rips. 
   
  And trust me, I know you (not really), some Janos Starker will be good for your soul. Homework will be approached with a renewed vigor.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The revised plan is to now enjoy my WA6SE and vintage SX-650 and leap only when safe to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Excellent thinking. 
   
  You are also correct that the T1 sounds great with many Woo amps.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> WA2 & T1 combo isn't the only magical pairing! Rather, a more recent one. With the cans you now have inside your listening room, you could easily achieve a state of reverie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  janos starker? i'll have to google it sometime. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  homework?! renewed vigor? lolz 
   
  WA2/T1...hmmm and now funny that i also have the ultrasone pro 900 on my mind. the downside to being an audiophile


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> janos starker? i'll have to google it sometime.


 
  It's a he. 
   
  Mr. Starker is a spectacular 'cellist known for his interpretations of Bach.  There are some wonderful SACDs of his work available.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> ... some Janos Starker will be good for your soul..





Too right.


----------



## Icenine2

Yes!!!!!!!!!!  Good for you.  Smart thinking.
   
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Went the short route for me, from a Schiit Lyr (my first amp) to maxxed WA5.  Figured I'd save in the long run between buying and re-selling amps at a loss for incremental upgrades.  Yeah, I know I missed on the whole audiophile journey thing - but there's still tube rolling and just spending money on music instead of gear for me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> It's a he.
> 
> Mr. Starker is a spectacular 'cellist known for his interpretations of Bach.  There are some wonderful SACDs of his work available.


 


  "And... Wapiti for the win!"  - _Marv Albert_


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> "And... Wapiti for the win!"  - _Marv Albert_


 


  "YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> "YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS"


 

 Just trying to draw you out of your reserve, WA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Much like Wapiti's "It's a he" comment drew me out of mine, this evening...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just trying to draw you out of your reserve, WA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Its been a few decades since I worked with Marv....
   
  On a Woo note the weather in the desert here is starting to tip below 100 everyday.  I see a very large garage sale in the future and that could mean one of the Woos on my future.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Its been a few decades since I worked with Marv....
> 
> On a Woo note the weather in the desert here is starting to tip below 100 everyday.  I see a very large garage sale in the future and that could mean one of the Woos on my future.


 


  Ooh, this is good - converting to cash could raise your appreciation factor for your upcoming Woo purchase! Funds permitting, what model has drawn you in closer?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ooh, this is good - converting to cash could raise your appreciation factor for your upcoming Woo purchase!


 

 There are many contenders for my junk to cash conversion.  as far as the Woo arena is concerned I'm not sure which is best for the LCD-2.  The WA6SE, WA22. WA2.  up against them would be the Peak/Volcano.
   
  The Woo's however do have the look of a tube amp that I like, whereas the Peak looks like someone plunked a tube on top by mistake.  Usually I do not take the look of a piece of gear into my purchasing decision but there is some gradational pull to a cool looking tube amp. Am I wrong?   No expresso machines though...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> There are many contenders for my junk to cash conversion.  as far as the Woo arena is concerned I'm not sure which is best for the LCD-2.  The WA6SE, WA22. WA2.  up against them would be the Peak/Volcano.
> 
> The Woo's however do have the look of a tube amp that I like, whereas the Peak looks like someone plunked a tube on top by mistake.  Usually I do not take the look of a piece of gear into my purchasing decision but there is some gradational pull to a cool looking tube amp. Am I wrong?   No expresso machines though...


 

 What?!... No espresso machines for your hard fought cash?!!! It'd still be a Woo, no? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I see what you mean about what your choices would be stacked up against. Since there was no auditions in sight for the Woo, both owner's reviews AND the design aesthetic played a huge role in my going forward. I got lucky, blind purchases can always be worse!


----------



## Zafonic

Would the W2 or W6SE be a great match up for the Sennheiser HD 600?  I've found the HD 600 sounds better with the X Can V2 tube amp I have now than my previous solid state amp, but was just wondering if the Woo amps were a significant step up and would specifically benefit this headphone?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





zafonic said:


> Would the W2 or W6SE be a great match up for the Sennheiser HD 600?  I've found the HD 600 sounds better with the X Can V2 tube amp I have now than my previous solid state amp, but was just wondering if the Woo amps were a significant step up and would specifically benefit this headphone?


 


  definitely a step up from that.
   
  i am planning on buying a WA2 in the future but the WA6SE is an amazing amp.
   
  i think the WA6SE would be a better match for the hd 600. a fun and dynamic amp would complement the hd 600s well. either way, both are a great  choice and you would end up hearing a difference compares to the X Can V2.


----------



## Silent One

Dubstep Girl  - So, what does she take?
   
  Hypothetically, suppose you moved into a new upscale dorm for nine months with amenities galore. But the school stipulated you were only allowed to bring one full-size headphone (no portables) for use with your Silver drop-dead gorgeous _WA 6 Special Edition amp. _Of course, they allow you to bring along your music drives and purchase songs to your heart's content.
   
  HD 650 with moon audio blue dragon cable
  SR-325is (new chrome version)
 AKG K701
 DT 990-600ohm (new kind)
   
_So, what does she take?  _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Dubstep Girl  - So, what does she take?
> 
> Hypothetically, suppose you moved into a new upscale dorm for nine months with amenities galore. But the school stipulated you were only allowed to bring one full-size headphone (no portables) for use with your Silver drop-dead gorgeous _WA 6 Special Edition amp. _Of course, they allow you to bring along your music drives and purchase songs to your heart's content.
> 
> ...


 

 HD 650!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  the sr-325is would be a close second though, but the hd 650 are good for just about anything, so it would be thosee


----------



## Zafonic

Thanks Dubstep Girl 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now the bad news - I am located in the UK so would get whacked with 20%-30% Customs' charges 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> definitely a step up from that.
> 
> i am planning on buying a WA2 in the future but the WA6SE is an amazing amp.
> 
> i think the WA6SE would be a better match for the hd 600. a fun and dynamic amp would complement the hd 600s well. either way, both are a great  choice and you would end up hearing a difference compares to the X Can V2.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ouch 
   
  the wa6se would be a little cheaper then.
   
  the wa2 is 40 USD more  expensive
   
   
  also you have to consider that the tubes for it are also pricier than the WA6SE's tubes, so if cost is an issue, the WA2 would be more expensive in the long run


----------



## rayk

Is it normal for the amp to run hotter with the Sylvania Fat Bottle 6FD7s than the stock standard ones?


----------



## Zafonic

I don't think the $40 or pricier tubes would be that much of an issue - I'd want the best sounding one for my HD 600, but unless I take a trip to the States with an extra large suitcase I don't think I'd escape another $400 in fees!
   
  Btw - if you were buying a W6SE or W2 would you go for the upgrades that are listed on the website for each amp respectively?
   

  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ouch
> 
> the wa6se would be a little cheaper then.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> Its been a few decades since I worked with Marv....
> 
> On a Woo note the weather in the desert here is starting to tip below 100 everyday.  I see a very large garage sale in the future and that could mean one of the Woos on my future.





I didn't realize Woo's were migratory, moving into the lower latitudes as the temperature drops. Glad I snagged one when I did, it was 4 degrees above freezing here this morning - those are four real degree's, not four 5/9ths of a proper degree  . 





silent one said:


> What?!... No espresso machines for your hard fought cash?!!! It'd still be a Woo, no?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





That's what I like about this place. I bought a Woo sound unheard, so to speak, but it didn't feel like a blind (or deaf) purchase because of all the input here. I am not disappointed. 

That said, don't make me choose between my Woo and my espresso machine. It would get ugly, and I know which one would woose. 



_Edited for spelling.
_


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I can answer that! But, I'm more interested in learning what your initial impressions are. Upon seeing the amp's design, what was your reaction? Love it, leave it or neutral? Also, do you like the tube switching concept that Eddie Current & Woo are now employing in their amps? Will you be getting one in 2012?


 
  Personally I believe that the idea is revolutionary--3 completely independent circuits, accessible by utilization of "keys" that can safely use different popular tubes! I disagree with xcaliber, as 300B is definitely not the universal power tube out there, I see it as more of a love-it or hate-it tube. So to have this kind of flexibility in a flagship amp is wonderful. While people might not buy the amp with the idea of ever switching power tubes from their favorite, they must recognize that this is in the same price bracket as other flagship amps, and has 3 times the flexibility. Win-win all around! As for me actually getting one? Hah definitely not, I don't have that kind of money to be throwing at a hobby just yet, give me a few more decades! I'm still researching tubes for the 6SE that I'll probably purchase early next year 
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> *At work?* (at play). I must say that it indeed was WarriorAnt who graciously introduced this thread the to WA234. I had to go back in time myself to make sure it was _*he who did show us the new Woo!  *_'cause I git easily distracted by nice shiny objects....


 
  Haha yes, at work! I'm an engineer, I research how our products match up with industry standards, etc. I merely reported that it was finally listed on the site, and it's no longer an ethereal piece of gear! Give me some credit here!


----------



## Pudu

zafonic said:


> Thanks Dubstep Girl
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Be patient and keep your eye on the for sale forums for a local sale. Does the UK have an audio equipment online trading site? We have the same problem on most things in Canada too - no import duties on stuff made in the US supposedly, but a healthy dose of sales tax even on used equipment bought from abroad. 

The wait will make it sound that much sweeter when it arrives. :rolleyes:


----------



## Zafonic

Thanks - there might be, but I doubt it will be anywhere near as big as Head-Fi.  As it is I don't think many Woo amps come up for sale here too often - maybe a sign that they are enjoyed so much.
  
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> Be patient and keep your eye on the for sale forums for a local sale. Does the UK have an audio equipment online trading site? We have the same problem on most things in Canada too - no import duties on stuff made in the US supposedly, but a healthy dose of sales tax even on used equipment bought from abroad.
> The wait will make it sound that much sweeter when it arrives.


----------



## Pudu

zafonic said:


> Thanks - there might be, but I doubt it will be anywhere near as big as Head-Fi.  As it is I don't think many Woo amps come up for sale here too often - maybe a sign that they are enjoyed so much.




I got very lucky and found one on the Canadian audio trading forum. You have a larger population to work with so you may be surprised. Also you have the LCD-3's working in your favour now.


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> There are many contenders for my junk to cash conversion.  as far as the Woo arena is concerned I'm not sure which is best for the LCD-2.  The WA6SE, WA22. WA2.  up against them would be the Peak/Volcano.
> 
> The Woo's however do have the look of a tube amp that I like, whereas the Peak looks like someone plunked a tube on top by mistake.  Usually I do not take the look of a piece of gear into my purchasing decision but there is some gradational pull to a cool looking tube amp. Am I wrong?   No expresso machines though...





Being a _benefitter _(oops) of the great info/opinions in this place, I'd thought I'd throw in my tiny contribution. I find the WA2 does not play to the strengths of the LCD-2. It makes the clear, detailed sound a bit less so without adding noticeably to the musicality (whatever that means) the way it does with the T1s. 

Though some of that might be down to preconceptions -> damn this place. :mad:

_edit: correction of wrong word to non-word_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Haha yes, at work! I'm an engineer, I research how our products match up with industry standards, etc. I merely reported that it was finally listed on the site, and it's no longer an ethereal piece of gear! Give me some credit here!


 

 Credit given. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Industry research must be an interesting job. Keeps you on top of things.
  I work as an accounting associate. In other words I just work on someone else's gigantic checkbook and other chained-to-the-desk activities; it really pales by comparison to your job.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The Woo's however do have the look of a tube amp that I like, whereas the Peak looks like someone plunked a tube on top by mistake.  Usually I do not take the look of a piece of gear into my purchasing decision but there is some gradational pull to a cool looking tube amp. Am I wrong?


 
   
  Not at all.  The reproduction of music is an emotional experience.  If the look and feel of your equipment enhances your appreciation you have made the perfect choice.


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> Not at all.  The reproduction of music is an emotional experience.  If the look and feel of your equipment enhances your appreciation you have made the perfect choice.





No one mention cables!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





pudu said:


> No one mention cables!


 






   
  Actually, I would include cables and whatever else brings you pleasure.  If the product or tweak is worth to you the increased enjoyment you experience it was an excellent purchase. 
   
  This is a hobby.  The yuck/buck ratio rules.


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> Actually, I would include cables and whatever else brings you pleasure.  If the product or tweak is worth to you the increased enjoyment you experience it was an excellent purchase.
> 
> This is a hobby.  The yuck/buck ratio rules.




Totally concur. Pleasure is all in your head - in this respect aesthetics are as real as physics. Part of my desire to get the LCD-2s stems from childhood memories of hours spent listening to my parents' record player through huge brown Pioneer headphones. 

_edited for grammar - my typing mojo is weak today_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Listening to Rush right now on my WA6SE and SR325is <3


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Part of my desire to get the LCD-2s stems from the my childhood memories of hours spent listening to my parents' record player through huge brown Pioneer headphones.


 

 Wonderful image.


----------



## Icenine2

Pudu.  Lewis Hamilton's helmet is your avatar yes?


----------



## Pudu

icenine2 said:


> Pudu.  Lewis Hamilton's helmet is your avatar yes?




You are correct sir. The base 2011 version I believe. He makes slight changes from race to race. Though nothing like a certain Mr Vettel.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Pudu.  Lewis Hamilton's helmet is your avatar yes?


 

 I noted this as well.  Fun.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Pudu*
> 
> He makes slight changes from race to race. Though nothing like a certain Mr Vettel.


 
   
  This is probably what makes Vettel faster.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Plus, they look better than the Red Bull stocking hat Vettel is wearing in his standard promo pic.


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> This is probably what makes Vettel faster.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think Adrian Ne_woo_ey (just to keep this on topic) is what makes him faster. 

I like some of his designs better than the ubiquitous Red Bull stuff. However a driver's helmet used to be like a signature - instantly recognizable and part of his identity. Think about at Senna's helmet. Now Schumacher's helmet. Now Sebastian's. Which one can you picture in your mind.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I think Adrian Ne_woo_ey (just to keep this on topic) is what makes him faster.


 

 Both true and well done!
   
   
  Quote: 





> However a driver's helmet used to be like a signature - instantly recognizable and part of his identity.


 
   
  Excellent point.  It would be fun to return to this.


----------



## Draygonn

wapiti said:


> If the look and feel of your equipment enhances your appreciation you have made the perfect choice.




+1 
IMO Woo is head and shoulders above everybody else in the aesthetics dept.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's a lot for a pair of Treasures, even if you got them in the premium gift box. I thought we discussed this...


 
   

   
  30 minutes ago I received a matched pair of Shugang 50-Years Treasure 300B-Z, and a matched pair of 50-Years Treasure CV181-Z from the seller grokit mentioned.  I ordered them on a whim after seeing his post. (Thanks!)
   
  Excellent seller with quick service.  I received them a bit over a week after ordering, nicely packed.  I've installed them in my WA5 and am listening to them now.
   
  As a bit of trivia, the seller spells it ShuGuang.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Credit given.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah I'm sure it's not that bad! All my friends who majored in finance or accounting seem to be doing fairly well for themselves, and I'm sure that since you're living in the Woo thread that you're living just as comfortably


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> +1
> IMO Woo is head and shoulders above everybody else in the aesthetics dept.


 


  Love @ First Sight --
   
_The WA 6 Special Edition's twin-chassis design sent my heart racing...  _


----------



## Silent One

As a gift, I'd accept a pair of Shuggies misprint or no...


----------



## spagetka

Frankly, your woo needs EAT300B or WE300B.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Wapiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 30 minutes ago I received a matched pair of Shugang 50-Years Treasure 300B-Z, and a matched pair of 50-Years Treasure CV181-Z from the seller grokit mentioned.  I ordered them on a whim after seeing his post. (Thanks!)
> 
> ...


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Frankly, your woo needs EAT300B or WE300B.


 

 Talk about totally different tube experiences.  The WE and EAT have completely different attributes - both nice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> HD 650!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Pop quiz --
   
  Nicely done!


----------



## xinque

Don't see too many posts on 300B tubes, any idea how the WE and EAT compare to EML 300BM?  Only one I have other than the stock Shuggys that came with WA5.
  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Talk about totally different tube experiences.  The WE and EAT have completely different attributes - both nice.


----------



## mikemalter

Fireing up Glenn's Adapter & 596!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Fireing up Glenn's Adapter & 596!


 







 _Talk about sneaky...!  _


----------



## jc9394

You guys brought up all the 596...


----------



## jc9394

Got a pretty bad cold last few days, can't enjoy my Woo...


----------



## xinque

The tubes can keep you warm at least !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a pretty bad cold last few days, can't enjoy my Woo...


----------



## Silent One

Grand Exit --
   
  The end of October is going to end in grand style. WarriorAnt will decide to order the WA22... Dubstep Girl the WA2. While Silent One will quietly pour over mikemalter's much anticipated impressions... and enjoy Super Premium Egg Nog - first cup of the season!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You guys brought up all the 596...


 


  I thought you ordered when dannie01 did?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  By-the-way, the '596' marks the first time I touched a tube before inflation did!


----------



## Silent One

Carmen Sandiego --
   
_Forget her... where's mikemalter and the mighty '596?!!!!'_


----------



## sampson_smith

Hey, SilentOne! I just realized that you have a WA6SE in use with LCD-2 and HiFiMAN cans. I am partial to my Sophia Princess rectifier, but any advice on what you think works best as driver tubes in your experience? I am happy with my Raytheon 6EW7's for both the HE-500 and LCD-2 rev.1 (with the former in the high-impedance jack, and the latter in the low-impedance one), but I am starting to think that it is time to go shopping for some primo drivers.
   
  What say other WA6SE fans of their favorite driver tube (and rectifier, if you'd like) choices?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Hey, SilentOne! I just realized that you have a WA6SE in use with LCD-2 and HiFiMAN cans. I am partial to my Sophia Princess rectifier, but any advice on what you think works best as driver tubes in your experience? I am happy with my Raytheon 6EW7's for both the HE-500 and LCD-2 rev.1 (with the former in the high-impedance jack, and the latter in the low-impedance one), but I am starting to think that it is time to go shopping for some primo drivers.
> 
> What say other WA6SE fans of their favorite driver tube (and rectifier, if you'd like) choices?


 

 Greetings sampson_smith!
   
  Thanks to an outstanding and fellow head-fier 'shipsupt,' I had both cans on loan for extended evaluation (pleasure?). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At the time, I didn't do any tube rolling. And I run 6SN7 drive tubes with adapters. The trio of tubes in place: Raytheon 6SN7WGT-1949's & EML 5U4G rectifier.
   
  The Ray's/EML Glass combo returned a satisfying sound with the LCD-2.r1's. But I seemed to get the best sound out of the HE-500's on a Vintage Pioneer Integrated amp. Ok with the WA6SE, but came to life with the BIG solid-state iron. 
   
  With the LCD-2's the addicting and deeply satisfying bass was a given. Best surprise moment for me with those cans came when I sat in to listen to Al Jarreau. Not really knowing what to expect, his track "Golden Girl" was only the second track of the evening, as I was just getting under way. And the way the LCD-2's expressed Al's vocals (and backup singers) was a very beautiful thing to hear. So, I cut the track short at 90 seconds in and hit "Restart" just because I could!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_However..._
   
  I did struggle with the LCD-2's on a few issues - mid-bass; treble; soundstage and some micro-details. But no HP is perfect. And though it often left me wanting more, that can is engaging. I want one! Funds permitting, I'd get one to compliment my Zeus re-cabled D7000's, but not to replace them. I do believe my listening room should have at least one pair of Closed/Open cans each. At some point will start shopping for some pre-owned Open cans. But not if some LCD-2's become available first!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Fireing up Glenn's Adapter & 596!


 


  Nice, some comment please, mike.


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You guys brought up all the 596...


 


  
  My second matched pair is on the way to my home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a pretty bad cold last few days, can't enjoy my Woo...


 

  Take some medicine with some music from your WA22 will make you recover faster than ever, that's why your bad cold last for few days.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Nice, some comment please, mike.
> 
> My second matched pair is on the way to my home.
> 
> ...


 


  Wondering if your twin '596' tubes returned a slightly larger soundstage than it did initially. I realize we have two different designs. But my single '596' did not return a smaller soundstage than my EML Glass. You have two rectifiers and report that it did. We be curious...




  A second matched pair? So, it's YOU single-handedly driving up prices!!! Any further comments on what you hear with the '596?'


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I thought you ordered when dannie01 did?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Inflation? How can a nonexistent tube be inflated? It's nowhere to be found.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Don't see too many posts on 300B tubes, any idea how the WE and EAT compare to EML 300BM?  Only one I have other than the stock Shuggys that came with WA5.


 

 I don't have experience with the EML.  The WE is luscious midrange and texture; the EAT, pop and extension.  It is like comparing an EL34 with a KT88 if this helps.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> My second matched pair is on the way to my home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  You devil, hook me up if you found any more.
   
  My ears is stuffed, that is why the Woo sitting loney the las few days.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Inflation? How can a nonexistent tube be inflated? It's nowhere to be found.


 






  Uh-oh! I'd better see Glenn about a back up!!!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You devil, hook me up if you found any more.
> 
> My ears is stuffed, that is why the Woo sitting loney the las few days.


 


  I was able to secure a second pair for back up too!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I was able to secure a second pair for back up too!!


 

 OMG. This sounds like a fire sale a Macy's. Okay--Neiman Marcus!


----------



## sampson_smith

Good hear, SilentOne. The LCD-2 (r.1, in my case) is a plenty engaging can and the WA6SE handles my pair amply. It is overall a fairly laid-back set of cans and perhaps I was looking for a method (via driver tube 'upgrade') to brighten things up a bit. I also sometimes take issue with the mid-bass smearing (?) and lack of extreme detail. This may not be as big a concern with the r.2's which are a bit more detailed/bright, some say. Overall, I think it is mainly alternating between the HE-500's and LCD-2's that shows rather starkly what each is best at. The HiFiMAN have a good deal of detail and and stage width and depth... and sparkle (while maintaining well-refined, deep bass). The LCD-2's are like black tea with a touch of honey. Warm, enriching and contemplative. Definitely a refined version of aural yin and yang going on here.
   
  I will stick with the Raytheon 6EW7's for now, but perhaps go back to the 6SN7's which I have a few pairs of.  Gotta check to be sure on that, as I have trouble remembering the various compatible tube serial numbers. Thanks for the comments/advice!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings sampson_smith!
> 
> Thanks to an outstanding and fellow head-fier 'shipsupt,' I had both cans on loan for extended evaluation (pleasure?).
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rayk said:


> Is it normal for the amp to run hotter with the Sylvania Fat Bottle 6FD7s than the stock standard ones?


 


   
  Yes, that is normal.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a pretty bad cold last few days, can't enjoy my Woo...


 


   
  Ugh, I just got over that myself.  The worst part is the plugged sinuses which creates pressure in the ear drums.  Everything sounds tinny and horrible during this period, which tends to last for weeks after the cold in my case.  Not a happy camper right now because I can't enjoy any music at all.


----------



## rayk

Thank you!
   
  I'm quite liking how they are sounding .
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Yes, that is normal.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Everything sounds tinny and horrible during this period, which tends to last for weeks after the cold in my case.


 

 Ouch.  This would be tough.


----------



## xinque

Not familiar with any of those tubes unfortunately.  Though with the price of 300B tubes, I'll probably roll the 6SN7s first on the WA5 and see how much of an impact I get.  At $500 - $1500 per pair of tubes, bit reluctant to be experimenting.  Not that I didn't know this going in of course..
   
  Though if anyone is familiar with 300Bs and specifically EML 300BM, could use some recommends for another tube to complement it.
  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I don't have experience with the EML.  The WE is luscious midrange and texture; the EAT, pop and extension.  It is like comparing an EL34 with a KT88 if this helps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sampson_smith said:


> Good hear, SilentOne. The LCD-2 (r.1, in my case) is a plenty engaging can and the WA6SE handles my pair amply. It is overall a fairly laid-back set of cans and perhaps I was looking for a method (via driver tube 'upgrade') to brighten things up a bit. I also sometimes take issue with the mid-bass smearing (?) and lack of extreme detail. This may not be as big a concern with the r.2's which are a bit more detailed/bright, some say. Overall, I think it is mainly alternating between the HE-500's and LCD-2's that shows rather starkly what each is best at. The HiFiMAN have a good deal of detail and and stage width and depth... and sparkle (while maintaining well-refined, deep bass). The LCD-2's are like black tea with a touch of honey. Warm, enriching and contemplative. Definitely a refined version of aural yin and yang going on here.
> 
> I will stick with the Raytheon 6EW7's for now, but perhaps go back to the 6SN7's which I have a few pairs of.  Gotta check to be sure on that, as I have trouble remembering the various compatible tube serial numbers. Thanks for the comments/advice!


 

 If I were able to have all three cans with tea & cookies, I'd be so content I'd be suspicious!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ugh, I just got over that myself.  The worst part is the plugged sinuses which creates pressure in the ear drums.  Everything sounds tinny and horrible during this period, which tends to last for weeks after the cold in my case.  Not a happy camper right now because I can't enjoy any music at all.


 


  Oooh, I just recently escaped a week ago or thereabout!


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> If I were able to have all three cans with tea & cookies, I'd be so content I'd be suspicious!




Just a heads up, they are serving pudding in the LCD-2 thread.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG. This sounds like a fire sale a Macy's. Okay--Neiman Marcus!


 

 USAF-596
   
  Glenn sold out minutes ago!










   
  O.k., we gonna be thankful for what we've got... and fire up the single '596' and have a listen tonight. It's not like I would've been able to use two at the same time. Just security I suppose.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Just a heads up, they are serving pudding in the LCD-2 thread.


 

 If that's an Old fashion New Orleans style bread pudding over there, I'll start looking for pre-owned LCD-2's this weekend!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I was able to secure a second pair for back up too!!


 


  How is what you hear with USAF-596 coming along? Is the tube gettin' refined and gettin' good?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a pretty bad cold last few days, can't enjoy my Woo...


 

 Woomonia?


----------



## Silent One

mikemalter spotted @ 20:43!!!  Early impressions on USAF-596? Brilliant wordplay!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How is what you hear with USAF-596 coming along? Is the tube gettin' refined and gettin' good?


 

 I actually like them better than any other of my rectifiers including the EML 5U4G Mesh. They are very detailed with very nice deep nd controlled bass and very nice soundstage. Since I got them They have not been switched out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I actually like them better than any other of my rectifiers including the EML 5U4G Mesh. They are very detailed with very nice deep nd controlled bass and very nice soundstage. Since I got them They have not been switched out.


 

 I'm having the same experience! I've only ever enjoyed Miss Sophia, then the EML and now the '596'... my best showing yet! Curiously, in contrast to the EML is your soundstage roughly the same size, larger or smaller?


----------



## vinyllp33

xinque said:


> Not familiar with any of those tubes unfortunately.  Though with the price of 300B tubes, I'll probably roll the 6SN7s first on the WA5 and see how much of an impact I get.  At $500 - $1500 per pair of tubes, bit reluctant to be experimenting.  Not that I didn't know this going in of course..
> 
> Though if anyone is familiar with 300Bs and specifically EML 300BM, could use some recommends for another tube to complement it.




Yes, you will get huge results changing the 6SN7 even with the stock 300B's.

I find that 300B's are impractical to "roll" price notwithstanding in that they have a symbiotic relationship with the 6SN7. So the best drivers with the more full-bodied and warmer Western Electric 300B's are usually not ideal with the more forward and leaner (more neutral?) sounding EML. 

The 5U4G brings it's own sound into the mix as of course the headphones used, the source and the individual user's sonic preferences.

I hate to beat a dead horse but the Tung Sol BGRP 6SN7 made the biggest difference for me and that was with the stock 300B. When I got the WE300B's depending on the phones, especially the HE-6's, the combination could sound a little too laid back at times but had a phenomenal sense of tonal color and layering and overall musicality.

Changing to some true Russian 1578's with the WE's and HE-6's was like jumping into a Ferrari, the sound was so limitless and exhilarating though it could be quite unforgiving. So less than ideal recordings need not apply, but with the good stuff, Wow!

And there are many other 6SN7's to explore, I really like the tall-bottle Tung-Sol's from late 50's to early 60's, very fine sounding and often can be found true NOS for less than the price of the new production Russian stuff.

Happy Listening!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> mikemalter spotted @ 20:43!!!  Early impressions on USAF-596? Brilliant wordplay!


 

  
  Quite simply floored that a tube at this low of a price actually outperforms the EML 5U4G, IMHO.
   
  What are you thinking?  I gather the 596 breathed new life into your Woo?
   
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I actually like them better than any other of my rectifiers including the EML 5U4G Mesh. They are very detailed with very nice deep nd controlled bass and very nice soundstage. Since I got them They have not been switched out.


 

  X2.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wondering if your twin '596' tubes returned a slightly larger soundstage than it did initially. I realize we have two different designs. But my single '596' did not return a smaller soundstage than my EML Glass. You have two rectifiers and report that it did. We be curious...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 After some burn in since the first day, I concur you are right. The soundstage are more open now and I can hear huge / tremendous soundstage from the HD800 last night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Inflation? How can a nonexistent tube be inflated? It's nowhere to be found.


 







  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You devil, hook me up if you found any more.


 
   
  Yes, sir.

  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I was able to secure a second pair for back up too!!


 


 You lucky man.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quite simply floored that a tube at this low of a price actually outperforms the EML 5U4G, IMHO.


 


  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I actually like them better than any other of my rectifiers including the EML 5U4G Mesh. They are very detailed with very nice deep nd controlled bass and very nice soundstage. Since I got them They have not been switched out.


 


 Can't agree more with these finding, I have the Mullard GZ34 (listen this pair before the 596 arrive) packed into the closet now.


----------



## kchew

Glenn sold all his 596 tubes already? I got my pair from vacuumtubes.net a few days ago, I hope they haven't depleted their stock!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quite simply floored that a tube at this low of a price actually outperforms the EML 5U4G, IMHO.
> 
> What are you thinking?  I gather the 596 breathed new life into your Woo?
> 
> ...


 


  New life... into my Woo? You must be joking, baby! I was taking photographs in preparation for listing my Woo later the same night. And that's when Clayton came in with thoughts on this new tube Glenn found. Excited, I wanted to hear this tube in my Woo before sending my amp down-the-street to some stranger. While waiting for my order, Clayton returned with impressions worthy of Front Page/Headline News... knew I had to have it!
   
  Once installed, I was no mo' good! I melted faster than Chocolate left out at a July picnic!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  "NOT-FOR-SALE!"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> After some burn in since the first day, I concur you are right. The soundstage are more open now and I can hear huge / tremendous soundstage from the HD800 last night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Upon reading your first impression I became confused... then grew concerned. Although we all hear differently and have different components, I couldn't help but think "Is it me?" And that perhaps, I was off my game. Admittedly, for the first time in years I skipped my appointment with the Audiologist, just so I could have an extra $75 for an audio tweak. Are we not addicts in unity?
   
  I am relieved to hear that all is fine in HK with your glass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Glenn sold all his 596 tubes already? I got my pair from vacuumtubes.net a few days ago, I hope they haven't depleted their stock!


 

 Just took a quick look... under "Pricing" it says Call/Email. Update: Thanks for the info.


----------



## spagetka

I think that sound signature and potential of your woo is based on 300B.
   
  I'd recommend rectifier->power->driver, but it depends on what sound signature/music/speakers&headphones do you prefer.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Not familiar with any of those tubes unfortunately.  Though with the price of 300B tubes, I'll probably roll the 6SN7s first on the WA5 and see how much of an impact I get.  At $500 - $1500 per pair of tubes, bit reluctant to be experimenting.  Not that I didn't know this going in of course..
> 
> Though if anyone is familiar with 300Bs and specifically EML 300BM, could use some recommends for another tube to complement it.


----------



## Icenine2

Yes Newooey does make him faster!  I think he would still be amazing as long as he's in a competitive car.
  
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> I think Adrian Ne_woo_ey (just to keep this on topic) is what makes him faster.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

_The Woo/596 train continues to roll..._
   
  Just putting the wraps on a 9 hour session overnight. The '596' is digging up so much detail, I may have to hold a garage sale! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where else would I keep them?!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm having the same experience! I've only ever enjoyed Miss Sophia, then the EML and now the '596'... my best showing yet! Curiously, in contrast to the EML is your soundstage roughly the same size, larger or smaller?


 


   
   My perception is that it is a little bit bigger with width and height but clearly deeper and more holographic. The spearation of instruments and voices is better IMO.


----------



## jc9394

You guys are killing me, looking for a 596 but no where to be found... and all the positive impressions pouring in...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You guys are killing me, looking for a 596 but no where to be found... and all the positive impressions pouring in...


 

*kchew* got his at vacuumtubes.net. Have you tried contacting them?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Upon reading your first impression I became confused... then grew concerned. Although we all hear differently and have different components, I couldn't help but think "Is it me?" And that perhaps, I was off my game. Admittedly, for the first time in years I skipped my appointment with the Audiologist, just so I could have an extra $75 for an audio tweak. Are we not addicts in unity?
> 
> I am relieved to hear that all is fine in HK with your glass.


 

  
  I confused, too.
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> My perception is that it is a little bit bigger with width and height but clearly deeper and more holographic. The spearation of instruments and voices is better IMO.


 


 No clue why I heard these 596 are not sound as wide as the EML but now they really sing like what exactly descried and the bass also wonderful. Now listening Madonna's Frozen, the bass is deep and very powerful with these monster tubes, I can also feel the LCD-2's membranes are moving around my eras, terrible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

       Quote:


jc9394 said:


> You guys are killing me, looking for a 596 but no where to be found... and all the positive impressions pouring in...


 
   
  Be patient, I will keep my eyes on them for you.


----------



## Golfnutz

So for anyone with both USAF-596 and RK-60, is there much of a difference?


----------



## dannie01

I want to try the RK60, too. But these tubes are even harder to find and there is only one seller on eBay in Italy and have only a single tube for sale.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I want to try the RK60, too. But these tubes are even harder to find and there is only one seller on eBay in Italy and have only a single tube for sale.


 

 dannie01, have no fear. You can find them here. http://www.tubesandmore.com/
  I get mine from here for only $10.50.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> *kchew* got his at vacuumtubes.net. Have you tried contacting them?


 


  I did not see it on their list, have sent an email to them.


  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Be patient, I will keep my eyes on them for you.


 


   
  Thanks, buddy.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01, have no fear. You can find them here. http://www.tubesandmore.com/
> I get mine from here for only $10.50.


 

 Clayton, you are turning into another devil.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Clayton, you are turning into another devil.


 

 A $10.50 devil.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01, have no fear. You can find them here. http://www.tubesandmore.com/
> I get mine from here for only $10.50.


 


  how it compare to 596?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A $10.50 devil.


 


  that is a shot of sake.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> that is a shot of sake.


 

 Hey, I found the 596 here: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/Prices%2030%20to%20698.htm
  Go to the page and search for 596--there it is.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I want to try the RK60, too. But these tubes are even harder to find and there is only one seller on eBay in Italy and have only a single tube for sale.


 


 Also tube depot has them for $9.95 this is a easy tube to find.  One thing not as good as a 596 but at $10  It is worth a try  the anode caps are different
  then a 596 they are like a larger 6F8 grid cap.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, I found the 596 here: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/Prices%2030%20to%20698.htm
> Go to the page and search for 596--there it is.


 


  I sent an email on this already.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, I found the 596 here: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/Prices%2030%20to%20698.htm
> Go to the page and search for 596--there it is.


 


  Got a response and they have it in stock.  It $30 each reasonable?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a response and they have it in stock.  It $30 each reasonable?


 


 Trivial in the search for perfect sound.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a response and they have it in stock.  It $30 each reasonable?


 

 Considering the fact that you can't find it anywhere else, yes it is reasonable. The price-range has been from $15 to $45 depending on when and where you got them. So $30 is reasonable.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a response and they have it in stock.  It $30 each reasonable?


 


  Overrated --
   
  Considering the tube's scarcity, your cold can now be considered "Overrated"... _get in there, jc9394!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> My perception is that it is a little bit bigger with width and height but clearly deeper and more holographic. The spearation of instruments and voices is better IMO.


 

 Confirmed --
   
  I am happy to report I have the same impressions.


----------



## vinyllp33

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Trivial in the search for perfect sound.


 

  
  Ain't that the truth!


----------



## Sesam

Anyone directly compared the Sophia Princess 274B Mesh and Rigid plate tubes?. I got the Sophia rigid plate today, and even without burn-in I already like it more than the EML 274B (this paired with treasures and RCA 6080WA). I'm considering getting the Princess mesh plate just because it looks fancier .


----------



## Rawrbington

just bought a wa3 off the for sale board here.
  i believe he shipped it out tonight.
  what should i expect?
  its my first real hp amp.
  im coming from a vintage pioneer sx receiver.
   
  main cans are the beyer 990 600 ohm
   
  i am very excite!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A $10.50 devil.


 

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, I found the 596 here: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/Prices%2030%20to%20698.htm
> Go to the page and search for 596--there it is.


 


 Clayton, you really are another devil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but thanks for the direction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *2359glenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Also tube depot has them for $9.95 this is a easy tube to find.  One thing not as good as a 596 but at $10  It is worth a try  the anode caps are different
> then a 596 they are like a larger 6F8 grid cap.


 

 Thanks , Glenn but how it sound compare with 596s?


----------



## mikemalter

Second night with the 596's.  Is anybody else struck by how much more presence music has?  This tube seems to me to make the music captivatingly more present somehow.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## WarriorAnt

:::Sigh::::::


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> :::Sigh::::::


 


  You're telling me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I can't use one right now even if I could find one.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Second night with the 596's.  Is anybody else struck by how much more presence music has?  This tube seems to me to make the music captivatingly more present somehow.
> 
> Thoughts?


 


   
   Clearly! I find the musinc more natrual and with more texture. A lot closer to the real thing.


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> just bought a wa3 off the for sale board here.
> i believe he shipped it out tonight.
> what should i expect?
> its my first real hp amp.
> ...




You should be in for a treat. My first evening with an OTL woo and 600 Beyers was magical.

And the best part - so is the next evening, and the next...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Second night with the 596's.  Is anybody else struck by how much more presence music has?  This tube seems to me to make the music captivatingly more present somehow.
> 
> Thoughts?


 

 Attitude --
   
  Bigger. Badder. _And having its way inside my listening room..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> :::Sigh::::::


 

 Roller coaster --
   
  When I heard from Glenn that he Sold-Out in Round 1, I was devastated. Only to find a message some hours later... he left me a '596' at the Will call window.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Clearly! I find the musinc more natrual and with more texture. A lot closer to the real thing.


 

 I long to hear your rig some day...


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Anyone directly compared the Sophia Princess 274B Mesh and Rigid plate tubes?. I got the Sophia rigid plate today, and even without burn-in I already like it more than the EML 274B (this paired with treasures and RCA 6080WA). I'm considering getting the Princess mesh plate just because it looks fancier .


 


  The rigid plate has higher current capability (almost twice, 160 ma v. 90 ma) so I would expect it to be more authoritative if the amp calls for additional current.  Generally, however, people like the sound of a mesh plate over rigid as more open and extended.  I have not compared so I cannot say.

 At least in my experience, the difference in the sound of rectifier tubes is relatively subtle.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Be patient, I will keep my eyes on them for you.


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, I found the 596 here: http://www.vacuumtubes.net/Prices%2030%20to%20698.htm
> Go to the page and search for 596--there it is.


 

 Got a matched pair coming...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a matched pair coming...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 


  +1


----------



## Silent One

While I can't speak for others, The United Electronics Company USAF-596 isn't all what it appears to be... _there is a dark side. _I've limited funds and little interest in tube rolling. Until now!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01, have no fear. You can find them here. http://www.tubesandmore.com/
> I get mine from here for only $10.50.


 

 Found them, thanks Clayton. BTW,, what's the brand they'll supply, Raytheon? And what about the adapters, order from Glenn?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 


 + 2
   





 Congrats my friend and enjoy.


----------



## Silent One

shipsupt; Cee-Tee, get in there! You know you want one ('596'). Can't complete the ring around the Bay Area without your purchase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, with the exception of FlyingBear, the last thing his WES needs is another tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Found them, thanks Clayton. BTW,, what's the brand they'll supply, Raytheon? And what about the adapters, order from Glenn?


 

 I got Raytheons from them but they have other brands as well.
   
  I got my RK60 adapter from Glenn. Please PM him and make sure you tell him how you want the wires situated on the base to match up with the keyway. It helps if you take a photo of the socket in relation to the rest of the amp.


----------



## spagetka

Quote:


wapiti said:


> The rigid plate has higher current capability (almost twice, 160 ma v. 90 ma) so I would expect it to be more authoritative if the amp calls for additional current.  Generally, however, people like the sound of a mesh plate over rigid as more open and extended.  I have not compared so I cannot say.
> 
> At least in my experience, the difference in the sound of rectifier tubes is relatively subtle. *My findings are exactly opposite.*


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Clayton, you really are another devil
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Dannie I think the 596 sounds better and is a stronger tube.
  And I am not shore about hooking them up in series like in your WA5. I'll have to test some in series. Don't need a tube
  to be blowing out like the EML. I will check some in the next couple of days and let you know if the filaments will have equal voltage in series.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





> Originally posted by *Wapiti*
> 
> At least in my experience, the difference in the sound of rectifier tubes is relatively subtle.


 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *spagetka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *My findings are exactly opposite.*


 

 Interesting.  You find that rectifier tubes change the sound more than driver and output tubes?


----------



## spagetka

IMO, rectifier is base for power, driver adjusts sound signature.

  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Interesting.  You find that rectifier tubes change the sound more than driver and output tubes?


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> The rigid plate has higher current capability (almost twice, 160 ma v. 90 ma) so I would expect it to be more authoritative if the amp calls for additional current.  Generally, however, people like the sound of a mesh plate over rigid as more open and extended.  I have not compared so I cannot say.
> 
> At least in my experience, the difference in the sound of rectifier tubes is relatively subtle.


 


  Hmm yea I guess the higher current capability must do something to the sound.
   
   
  The only mesh rectifier I have heard is the EML 274B, but it did sound too "thin" with most music I listen to, it's like the soundstage was too wide with the instruments overpowering the vocals. I suspect the "open and extended" sound people sought after with the mesh tubes, may be the opposite of what I want. Maybe I'm just a rigid plate kind of guy, as my favorite rectifier so far has been the GB 5931. A lot of the music I listen to really needs a smooth and thick sound


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> IMO, rectifier is base for power, driver adjusts sound signature.


 

 Yes, and both are important. 
   
  I find texture and timbre to be the most significant - it's probably because I listen most to orchestral and chamber music. 
   
  Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Yes, and both are important.
> 
> I find texture and timbre to be the most significant - it's probably because I listen most to orchestral and chamber music.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.


 

 Interesting.  For me, it's not the type of the tube as in power, driver or rectifier but the actual tube itself that hits me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> IMO, rectifier is base for power, driver adjusts sound signature.


 


  I'll second this.  I don't see rectifiers as affecting tone much.  If they do it is a coincidence of different B+ voltage affecting the behavior of the driver tubes downstream.  But, just like a superior quality power supply in *any* amp, a better rectifier improves dynamics, transients, and note delineation.  To me the differences are substantial and easy to spot.  Drivers, on the other hand, seem to adjust tone more than anything.  Though I feel they affect all aspects of the sound to some extent.  As for power output tubes, I hope to be able to actually form an opinion on this for the first time in the near future.


----------



## jc9394

None Woo related but I just want to post something.
   
  I have a Revel Performa F50 and Denon 5805 but it never sounds right at my condo, there is slight bass roll off and imaging is off so I don't use it much except on HT setup only.  Now I moved and never setup it up for over a long while thinking it sounds the same, I got bored today and figure I should hook it up instead leaving it in the garage and winter is coming soon.  To my surprise, it sounds excellent, actually better than I remember it.  I have no idea why, probably the room acoustic is better?  The condo living room is bigger than the current family room.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> None Woo related but I just want to post something.
> 
> I have a Revel Performa F50 and Denon 5805 but it never sounds right at my condo, there is slight bass roll off and imaging is off so I don't use it much except on HT setup only.  Now I moved and never setup it up for over a long while thinking it sounds the same, I got bored today and figure I should hook it up instead leaving it in the garage and winter is coming soon.  To my surprise, it sounds excellent, actually better than I remember it.  I have no idea why, probably the room acoustic is better?  The condo living room is bigger than the current family room.


 


  Glad you were able to enjoy a pre-holiday treat! Acoustics are important - the room matters. If you're really ecstatic and see more future activity, you can now go about treating the room for further improvement.


----------



## Wapiti

The room is your biggest and most important component.
   
  Enjoy your new sound


----------



## Silent One

An expertly executed room can take the listener places... _without ever leaving the room. _


----------



## Xcalibur255

Indeed, the room itself makes or breaks any speaker based setup no matter how good the gear is.  Every person I've talked with about doing room treatments is blown away by what a difference it makes when they are actually implemented.


----------



## spagetka

I think you are right.
   
  I am working on it. I was searching for room analyzer and some material for DYI traps. 

  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Yes, and both are important.
> 
> I find texture and timbre to be the most significant - it's probably because I listen most to orchestral and chamber music.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.


 


   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Indeed, the room itself makes or breaks any speaker based setup no matter how good the gear is.  Every person I've talked with about doing room treatments is blown away by what a difference it makes when they are actually implemented.


----------



## Clayton SF

I am listening to my Woo 4 and another earthquake hits San Francisco. Eek!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am listening to my Woo 4 and another earthquake hits San Francisco. Eek!


 


   
  Hope everything is ok there.
   
  Yeah, I think the room acoustic makes a huge difference.  It sounded so good that I was listening to it for over 4 hours, now I will have a choice of speakers or headphone when I work from home.  At night, nothing beat the warm glow of WA22's tubes...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hope everything is ok there.
> 
> Yeah, I think the room acoustic makes a huge difference.  It sounded so good that I was listening to it for over 4 hours, now I will have a choice of speakers or headphone when I work from home.  At night, nothing beat the warm glow of WA22's tubes...


 

 Everything's ok. 'twas just a jolt. A big one felt in this old wooden building I live in that was built in 1927.
   
  When I removed my couch from my living room the whole acoustics changed dramatically. I knew it would change but not that much. Now I sit in a single chair and listen to music from speakers. It seems more open (because, I guess, it is more open). I am using my WA2 as a preamp powered by a Decware Taboo amp with V caps and Zu Omen standard speakers. At night I fire up the WA4 with 6c19, 6V4, and E80CC tubes--the last two are Mullards. Very nice indeed.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Everything's ok. 'twas just a jolt. A big one felt in this old wooden building I live in that was built in 1927.


 
  Very good to hear.
   
  Quote: 





> When I removed my couch from my living room the whole acoustics changed dramatically. I knew it would change but not that much.


 
  The difference good room treatment makes is astounding.  Even non-audio people find walking into my studio fascinating as the room "sounds" different even when you stand silently.


----------



## jc9394

Since it sounded so good now, I'm thing getting a WA2 and this puppy to drive it.  It really need a better amp than the Denon 5805.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> I think you are right.
> 
> I am working on it. I was searching for room analyzer and some material for DYI traps.


 


 Although not cheap, it may be cheaper and more effective in the long run to do DRC in the digital domain. See Tact http://www.tactlab.com/Products/RCS22XP/index.html
  and http://www.tactlab.com/DRC/drc.html


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am listening to my Woo 4 and another earthquake hits San Francisco. Eek!


 

 It wasn't an earthquake.  It was PG&E and you are not supposed to turn on all of your equipment all at the same time!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> It wasn't an earthquake.  It was PG&E and you are not supposed to turn on all of your equipment all at the same time!


 







  In wake of PG&E's last disaster on that side of the Bay, as a gesture of goodwill, PG&E should just go ahead and rewire Mr. Clayton's building. Or provide him with his own Sub Station.


----------



## Silent One

"The Nightfly" - Donald Fagen
   
  I have the DVD-A @ 24/48, others the SACD. Just got home and saw that HDTracks released it @24/44.1 for those interested in hi-rez downloads.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> "The Nightfly" - Donald Fagen
> 
> I have the DVD-A @ 24/48, others the SACD. Just got home and saw that HDTracks released it @24/44.1 for those interested in hi-rez downloads.


 

 What is the genre?  Do you recommend?  Silly question, why would you post otherwise.  Sigh.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Although not cheap, it may be cheaper and more effective in the long run to do DRC in the digital domain. See Tact http://www.tactlab.com/Products/RCS22XP/index.html
> and http://www.tactlab.com/DRC/drc.html


 


  Digital correction can make a big difference, for sure.  However, I'm a big believer in eliminating the need for correction in the first place, the result usually sounding more natural IMO.  If the room permits some acoustic panels in the right locations can do miracles for a speaker setup.
   
  http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html
   
  If your system happens to be digital then a combination of both can tackle the problem from both ends, but for people who are trying to maintain a pure analog signal chain the room itself is where the problem begins and ends.


----------



## Clayton SF

The weight of all of my Woo amps in my apartment is causing the Hayward Fault to shift a little more often than usual.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What is the genre?  Do you recommend?  Silly question, why would you post otherwise.  Sigh.


 


  Genre: Jazz.  Recommendation: Highly. Although it was the first (among the first) all-digitally recorded CD, at 24/44.1 I'm using the term "hi-rez" somewhat loosely, can make an argument for it with a 24-bit word-length. Your Bryston-W4S-WA22-HD800 combo would play "The Nightfly" effortlessly.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The weight of all of my Woo amps in my apartment is causing the Hayward Fault to shift a little more often than usual.


 

 By appointment only --
   





  Uh-oh!!! I better move up my visit to your apartment. Also, I remember earlier this summer your giving up on the Big Cat (Lion). What move did you make to replace the Mac? Wasn't it going to serve as a music server?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Very good to hear.
> 
> The difference good room treatment makes is astounding.  Even non-audio people find walking into my studio fascinating as the room "sounds" different even when you stand silently.


 

 Young & foolish --
   
  In my teens, I remember one hot afternoon gettin' in to it with the fellas court-side. We had been ballin' all day, was chillin', and the conversation turned from girls to stereos. I had visited my girlfriend's house a few nights before and I was blown away by her father's new stereo system. A modest Yamaha set up, in a modest den. I had also seen/heard more expensive gear from relatives, friends of the family and my own friends' fathers, uncles and so on.
   
  I was at a loss to reconcile this experience in my head, after hearing her Pop's system with my own two ears. But, I stood my ground - I went toe-to-toe arguing for this modestly priced system being a "Killa!!!"  'Yeah, I heard your Brother in-law's gear and this system will kick the (edit)..."
   
  This was before I knew anything about room treatment. And discovered some years later what I thought was the room's decor was actually...


----------



## Wapiti

Great story.


----------



## PanamaRed

Have any of you guys ever heard of a Bendix 5931? I only ask because I apparently just acquired such a tube from my local tube guru. Strangely enough, it is marked as a Sylvania 5931. 
   
  Just wondering if anyone has seen and/or used one before.


----------



## jc9394

What is better than seeing the tubes glow on a Woo in a cold snowy night?  Glass of single malt scotch and Woo listening to Diana Krall.


----------



## Skylab

The Sylvania 5931 is a nice sounding tube.  It's basically a military issue 5U4GB, but I find them to be excellent.  I've never seen them branded anything other than Sylvania.


----------



## Xcalibur255

They're often really cheap too, since many 5U4 hunters don't know it is essentially the same tube.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What is better than seeing the tubes glow on a Woo in a cold snowy night?  Glass of single malt scotch and Woo listening to Diana Krall.


 


  You know how to do it, jc9394!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  However, I may have to reread that part about the snow...


----------



## oldwine

is it  tube castle???? many tube "mountains" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Since it sounded so good now, I'm thing getting a WA2 and this puppy to drive it.  It really need a better amp than the Denon 5805.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> is it  tube castle???? many tube "mountains"


 


 I'm just wondering how much would cost for those tubes in NOS.


----------



## jc9394

Danny, don't tell me.


----------



## Silent One

Up all night... test driving the rig yet, again... this time with another new passenger. Amarra (Computer Music Player). In both Memory mode & Playlist mode, the program sounds very nice. Yes, my Woo loves and appreciates this change of direction.


----------



## jc9394

Amarra, it is THE best computer music player out there.  If I don't use PWD/Bridge, I will never sold my Amarra...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Amarra, it is THE best computer music player out there.  If I don't use PWD/Bridge, I will never sold my Amarra...


 

 Pure Music had dominated most of WA6SE's existence with Audirvana coming in second. But, the '596' changed everything, so were experimenting and making new changes for autumn. Next week I hope to bring home a new cat (Lion) and refine things further.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Currently, listening to "Victim" - Candi Staton   8:32   192kHz.Wav
   
_Her honey-drenched voice is to die for..._


----------



## jc9394

I have so much problem with the new cat, mostly on business applications, perfectly fine on personal stuff.  I highly recommend to a fresh install instead of upgrade.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have so much problem with the new cat, mostly on business applications, perfectly fine on personal stuff.  I highly recommend to a fresh install instead of upgrade.


 


  It's been giving a lot of computer audiophiles fits! Your reminder now has me nervous. Well, maybe partition a tiny slice for SL to remain in case I wanna go back.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Since it sounded so good now, I'm thing getting a WA2 and this puppy to drive it.  It really need a better amp than the Denon 5805.


 

 I own a few Decware products as well. They are great amps and, like the Woo Audio amps, are built to last. I pair the WA2 with the Taboo. A match made in heaven. IMO.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What is better than seeing the tubes glow on a Woo in a cold snowy night?  Glass of single malt scotch and Woo listening to Diana Krall.


 


  +1


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You know how to do it, jc9394!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 yup, first snow in Boston last night... Loving the Yamazaki over the rest I have on shelf lately.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Since it sounded so good now, I'm thing getting a WA2 and this puppy to drive it.  It really need a better amp than the Denon 5805.


 

 I thought this was a chessboard!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yup, first snow in Boston last night... Loving the Yamazaki over the rest I have on shelf lately.


 

 Snow in Boston?  My wife and I are still drinking coffee in the morning sun in our shorts and flip-flops out here in California.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Snow in Boston?  My wife and I are still drinking coffee in the morning sun in our shorts and flip-flops out here in California.


 


  yup, expect up to 6 inches in western Mass this weekend.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What is better than seeing the tubes glow on a Woo in a cold snowy night?  Glass of single malt scotch and Woo listening to Diana Krall.


 

 I am there through the Woo and whiskey.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Quote:
> 
> I thought this was a chessboard!


 


  LAWLZ, tube shaped pieces would be awesome!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Snow in Boston?  My wife and I are still drinking coffee in the morning sun in our shorts and flip-flops out here in California.


 


  +1
   
  As is, your silent neighbor with his gaiwan in the morning...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I am there through the Woo and whiskey.


 


  Definitely, the Woo and French bubbly.


----------



## Silent One

Who among you, have gotten or will be receiving packages today, tomorrow? So........ what's in the box?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have so much problem with the new cat, mostly on business applications, perfectly fine on personal stuff.  I highly recommend to a fresh install instead of upgrade.


 


  Is a fresh install difficult?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Definitely, the Woo and French bubbly.


 

 I prefer Cali red when listening to music...
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Who among you, have gotten or will be receiving packages today, tomorrow? So........ what's in the box?


 

  
  me, me... got an adapter from Glenn and pair of matched 596 on Monday.  Finally will be able to join the inner circle.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT, a big package from Corey in another week.  This will put the WA22 in good competitions...


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Is a fresh install difficult?


 
   
  no, very straight forward.  just make sure to back all your personal items and have all software keys available.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Snow in Boston?  My wife and I are still drinking coffee in the morning sun in our shorts and flip-flops out here in California.


 


  We measured 19 inches of snow here in the Colorado Front Range foothills on Wednesday morning... but flip-flop weather should be back on Saturday. Never a dull moment.
   
  Edit: Thankfully, we only lost power for a few hours, so the WA2, T1s and Bartok's _Concerto for Orchestra_ were perfect snow-day companions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I prefer Cali red when listening to music...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats! However, we'll be wishing you the best. Because the last time (recently) we saw you mention Storm & FedEx in the same sentence...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats! However, we'll be wishing you the best. Because the last time (recently) we saw you mention Storm & FedEx in the same sentence...


 


  Thanks, the last time is actually rain and fedex...monday should be all clear here...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Is a fresh install difficult?


 

 You gonna jump... take your music server to another level? As I see it, I'll lose Integer Stream Non-Mixable Output, but Lion supposedly more open, better detailed. So, why not?! I make the jump... right after you!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> We measured 19 inches of snow here in the Colorado Front Range foothills on Wednesday morning... but flip-flop weather should be back on Saturday. Never a dull moment.
> 
> Edit: Thankfully, we only lost power for a few hours, so the WA2, T1s and Bartok's _Concerto for Orchestra_ were perfect snow-day companions.


 


  To hear you and jc9394 tell it, I'm longing to sit in Saturday night, wash a few Jazz LP's and listen to my Woo work its wonder. _In good weather no less!  _


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Thankfully, we only lost power for a few hours, so the WA2, T1s and Bartok's _Concerto for Orchestra_ were perfect snow-day companions.


 

 Nice choice.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To hear you and jc9394 tell it, I'm longing to sit in Saturday night, wash a few Jazz LP's and listen to my Woo work its wonder. _In good weather no less!  _


 

 That is exactly my plan... I won two Audiogon auctions featuring big batches of ECM releases from the late 70s, and the records arrived earlier this week. So much good stuff: Art Lande's Rubisa Patrol, Barbara Higbie & Darol Anger, Jarrett, Gary Burton... the WA2 is heading for a workout!


----------



## Silent One

_Food Fight!_
   
  Isn't it true that owners of Woo Audio amps (Vacuum Tube amps in general) have lower blood pressure than their Solid State counterparts?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> That is exactly my plan... I won two Audiogon auctions featuring big batches of ECM releases from the late 70s, and the records arrived earlier this week. So much good stuff: Art Lande's Rubisa Patrol, Barbara Higbie & Darol Anger, Jarrett, Gary Burton... the WA2 is heading for a workout!


 


  You won TWO Audiogon auctions? You brought home the Kit & the Kaboodle!!! Autumn/Winter is going to be very satisfying for you indeed.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Isn't it true that owners of Woo Audio amps (Vacuum Tube amps in general) have lower blood pressure than their Solid State counterparts?


 

 What about those of us who are confused and own mutiples of both, SS and tube headphone and speaker amps?
   
  I'm probably just confused.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You won TWO Audiogon auctions? You brought home the Kit & the Kaboodle!!! Autumn/Winter is going to be very satisfying for you indeed.


 


  Yeah... I couldn't choose between the two, so I bid up both of them.


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> Who among you, have gotten or will be receiving packages today, tomorrow? So........ what's in the box?


I got the replacement 5998 and its working perfectly. Early next week I have HD800s and a Leopold Tenkeyless w/CherryMX Blacks incoming


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SilentOne*
> 
> 
> 
> Who among you, have gotten or will be receiving packages today, tomorrow? So........ what's in the box?


 
   
  In light of our brief recent discussion regarding rectifier tubes, I have some alternatives on the way for my WA5.  It is good to keep exploring.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> What about those of us who are confused and own mutiples of both, SS and tube headphone and speaker amps?
> 
> I'm probably just confused.


 


  For me, the caring and appreciation of my Woo has been more therapeutic and telling in my own frequent BP numbers between the gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It could very well be in my head, the Fibonacci numbers or both. Just a Friday afternoon food fight for debate really...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> In light of our brief recent discussion regarding rectifier tubes, I have some alternatives on the way for my WA5.  It is good to keep exploring.


 


  We ain't got no boxes coming!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I will share in the joy of my comrades.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I got the replacement 5998 and its working perfectly. Early next week I have HD800s and a Leopold Tenkeyless w/CherryMX Blacks incoming


 

 Photographs go a long way in this thread.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yup, first snow in Boston last night... Loving the Yamazaki over the rest I have on shelf lately.


 


  It was that darn snow storm in Boston that made my flight home to Toronto last night 2 hours late. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Got home after midnight.
   
  No snow here in T.O though.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Who among you, have gotten or will be receiving packages today, tomorrow? So........ what's in the box?


 

 Coffee from Seattle and a boatload of tubes from a trade dminches and I are doing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Coffee from Seattle and a boatload of tubes from a trade dminches and I are doing.


 

 You're lucky I don't have any gas money!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You're certainly doing well on the other side of the bridge. I wouldn't expect you to list a boatload of tubes when you could just as easily shoot 'em. But what would you say is the one, two or three pair that make the batch alluring?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm outta here until all this talk about snow stops.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Who among you, have gotten or will be receiving packages today, tomorrow? So........ what's in the box?


 

 I got two more from Glenn today. Now I'm all set, yes?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I got two more from Glenn today. Now I'm all set, yes?


 

  
  From Clayton's Candy Boutique... _more candy! _And to think I'm just trying to secure a backup! Thanks for the inspiration. I wasn't going to fire up the rig until 2300 hrs for a Midnight session. After seeing these tubes, I just turned on every knob-dial-switch I could find. You prompted me to listen early tonight...
   
  Hope to see 'em in November!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Post Script:
   
  Although Karen Mok is in the featured spotlight this weekend (her first time with the '596'), I just downloaded Natacha Atlas - "Haram Aleyk" from HDTracks 16/44. She's a long time fav, looking forward to hearing it in the next hour. Tonight is only my third session with Amarra - this program delivers!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Amarra is the real deal.


----------



## rayk

Hey all, my rectifier seems to me emitting a high pitched ringing sound (seems to be vibrating?). Is there a way to stop that from happening? Seems to do it louder with the fat 6FD7s.
   
  Also is the 6DN7 upgrade worth looking into?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Amarra is the real deal.


 


  The only thing I'm undecided about tonight is my midnight snack!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've got the music covered!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I got two more from Glenn today. Now I'm all set, yes?


 

 What do those cables do for the rectifier tubes? I *really *need to get a Woo now!


----------



## Sesam

I ordered a Sophia Princess 274B mesh plate, just to satisfy my curiosity about how they compare to the rigid plate version.
   
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What do those cables do for the rectifier tubes? I *really *need to get a Woo now!


 


  Yea I'm also puzzled by those cables, maybe they are milking delicious music out of the valves?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What do those cables do for the rectifier tubes? I *really *need to get a Woo now!


 

 I think Glenn can answer that question best. I am so impressed not only by the 596's sound qualities but also by its raw beauty. After your post I decided to take a few close shots of the 596 tube without its pin-jacks and cables.
   
*The 596 Tube, Unplugged!*
   

   
   
_*Name, Rank, and Serial Number.*_


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think Glenn can answer that question best. I am so impressed not only by the 596's sound qualities but also by its raw beauty. After your post I decided to take a few close shots of the 596 tube without its pin-jacks and cables.
> 
> *The 596 Tube, Unplugged!*
> 
> ...


 

 Clayton, really nice pictures.  I have got to shoot my stuff.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Wow, those tubes are beautiful.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think Glenn can answer that question best. I am so impressed not only by the 596's sound qualities but also by its raw beauty. After your post I decided to take a few close shots of the 596 tube without its pin-jacks and cables.
> 
> *The 596 Tube, Unplugged!*


 


  The 596 Unplugged:
   
  Would that make it the Acoustic version?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They make a beautiful companion for today's brunch.


----------



## jc9394

Head's up fellow Woo owners, I'm planning to fund a speaker amp and considering selling some of GEC power tubes and few others that I don't use much that I have as backup.  Since I'm using more of TS 7236 on my LCD-2, the GECs are sitting in the closet.
   
  GEC 6AS7G pair, either round or straight base
  GEC 6080 pair, either NOS or <100 hours
  TS 5998 pair, <100 hours
  Sylvania 6F8G pair, <15 hours
   
  I may have more but these are the one that off top of my head.  PM me if you are interested, I will post in FS forum next week.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Head's up fellow Woo owners, I'm planning to fund a speaker amp and considering selling some of GEC power tubes and few others that I don't use much that I have as backup.  Since I'm using more of TS 7236 on my LCD-2, the GECs are sitting in the closet.
> 
> GEC 6AS7G pair, either round or straight base
> GEC 6080 pair, either NOS or <100 hours
> ...


 
   
  Could this speaker amp be Decware's delicious ZenTorii?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Could this speaker amp be Decware's delicious ZenTorii?


 


   
   
  Most likely unless the WA5 can drive the Revel, will give Jack a call once gather the fund.  The Leben is another option.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





sesam said:


> I ordered a Sophia Princess 274B mesh plate, just to satisfy my curiosity about how they compare to the rigid plate version.


 

 Looking forward to your report.


----------



## Silent One

USAF-596 Spotted in-the-wild


----------



## cifani090

^^^ Next to the plant they look good


----------



## Pudu

So if I understand it correctly the chlorophyll in the tubes converts sunlight into music? 

How often do you have to water them?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pudu said:


> So if I understand it correctly the chlorophyll in the tubes converts sunlight into music?
> How often do you have to water them?


 


  That probably depends on the amount of usage and the climate.


----------



## Silent One

Nutrition for the '596' - Vitamins by injection three nights a week; supplements by 48" Black light.


----------



## Silent One

Admission --
   
  Due in part to some recent additions and tweaks (and WarriorAnt's expertise), I have listened to my system more in the last three weeks than in the last three months! My Inner Ear needs a much deserved break no matter much my soul is filled with lust and desire. Taking Saturday night/Sunday night off away from the listening room (_sigh_).


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think Glenn can answer that question best. I am so impressed not only by the 596's sound qualities but also by its raw beauty. After your post I decided to take a few close shots of the 596 tube without its pin-jacks and cables.
> 
> *The 596 Tube, Unplugged!*
> 
> ...


 


 The pins on top of the tube are for the anode/plate connections. Even though the 596 has mostly the same specs as a 5U4 It can be operated at a much higher plate voltage.
  The 596 can be operated at 4500 volts per plate and each plate is connected to the opposite side of the power transformer secondary. The voltage can be as high as 9000 volts
  plate to plate this high voltage would arc over in the base of the tube or tube socket. So it was applied to the top of the tube ware it won't arc over.
  Of coarse in these amps this voltage is much lower in a WA22 it is about 180 volts to the plate or 360 volts plate to plate. In a WA5 about 400 volts to the plate or 800 volts plate to plate
    so the cables and pin connectors bring the plate connections to the base of the tube adapter and hook them to the pins that correspond with the plates of the 5U4


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The pins on top of the tube are for the anode/plate connections. Even though the 596 has mostly the same specs as a 5U4 It can be operated at a much higher plate voltage.
> The 596 can be operated at 4500 volts per plate and each plate is connected to the opposite side of the power transformer secondary. The voltage can be as high as 9000 volts
> plate to plate this high voltage would arc over in the base of the tube or tube socket. So it was applied to the top of the tube ware it won't arc over.
> Of coarse in these amps this voltage is much lower in a WA22 it is about 180 volts to the plate or 360 volts plate to plate. In a WA5 about 400 volts to the plate or 800 volts plate to plate
> so the cables and pin connectors bring the plate connections to the base of the tube adapter and hook them to the pins that correspond with the plates of the 5U4


 

 Thanks for the explanation, so other Woo amps (such as the 6) can or cannot handle this power? Im thinking yes, because it has a rectifier, but no because it handles much less power.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The pins on top of the tube are for the anode/plate connections. Even though the 596 has mostly the same specs as a 5U4 It can be operated at a much higher plate voltage.
> The 596 can be operated at 4500 volts per plate and each plate is connected to the opposite side of the power transformer secondary. The voltage can be as high as 9000 volts
> plate to plate this high voltage would arc over in the base of the tube or tube socket. So it was applied to the top of the tube ware it won't arc over.
> Of coarse in these amps this voltage is much lower in a WA22 it is about 180 volts to the plate or 360 volts plate to plate. In a WA5 about 400 volts to the plate or 800 volts plate to plate
> so the cables and pin connectors bring the plate connections to the base of the tube adapter and hook them to the pins that correspond with the plates of the 5U4


 

  




  Fascinating! As always, thanks for participating, thanks for your contributions Glenn. Just when I was prepared to walk away from the rig this weekend... we're goin' back in tonight!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Also, after such a fantastic find with the '596' rectifier, any leads on an inexpensive Tung-Sol BGRP 'Killa?!'


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What do those cables do for the rectifier tubes? I *really *need to get a Woo now!


 


   
  Credit to cifani090 & Clayton for their exchange - it produced really sweet fruit from the '596' tree.


----------



## Silent One

9000 volts?! I'd better make sure my neighbor (shipsupt) gets one before they sell out. Even if I have to buy it and walk it over there myself! Isn't that what audio buddies do for each other?


----------



## jc9394

Have no worries, the place I got mines have over 50 in stock but he did said for some odd reason that these never sell unil lately.


----------



## jc9394

Woohoo, we are at page 999 already.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Thanks for the explanation, so other Woo amps (such as the 6) can or cannot handle this power? Im thinking yes, because it has a rectifier, but no because it handles much less power.


 


 This tube can be used in the WA6 Just because it can handle high voltage doesn't mean it has to operate at those levels. Even a regular 5U4 can handle 1200 volts plate to plate.
  and are not being operated near these levels in these amps.
   All the rectifier does is change the high voltage AC voltage from the power transformer to DC. So a 596 can change 150 volts AC to 150 volts DC as well as 2000 volts AC to 2000 volts DC.


----------



## Xcalibur255

My goodness those 596 tubes are built like Sherman tanks.  They give the impression they'll last forever.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I think the only concern about the WA6 and this tube is the physical size of the tube and the cables coming out of the adapter.  The EML 274B _barely_ clears the 6SN7s with the height of the adapters, so I have my doubts that the 596 fits without something touching.


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Halloween everyone.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Happy Halloween everyone.


 

 A wicked post indeed, Clayton! By the way, I love my '596' so much, I'm trying to figure out how to use it with my SS amp now...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Happy Halloween everyone.


 

 Its not Halloween?


----------



## Silent One

But, it's Halloween Weekend - parties galore out this way. I just came back from the Goodie Store with some Egg Nog. Currently listening to a Jazz station out of Paris, while I debate firing up the Woo...
   
  Billie Holiday is cooing, whispering "Fine and Mellow." Think I will have a session tonight with my Woo!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think the only concern about the WA6 and this tube is the physical size of the tube and the cables coming out of the adapter.  The EML 274B _barely_ clears the 6SN7s with the height of the adapters, so I have my doubts that the 596 fits without something touching.


 


  Yeah, things would get real tight real quick! However, the cables are doable because Glenn has the ability to "position" them. Looking at your real estate on top of the WA6, he could easily slot the cables to rise from the 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock position. The glass, on the other hand... just maybe.
   
  Clayton had or has a WA6 if his massive collection hasn't clouded my memory. If he does, he could return a visual for you.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Have no worries, the place I got mines have over 50 in stock but he did said for some odd reason that these never sell unil lately.


 


  Thanks, jc. This is good to know. Just hope no outside interests bids them up!


----------



## Golfnutz

Has anyone actually compared the 596 to the RK-60?


----------



## Golfnutz

I wonder how the RK-60 compares to the EML 5U4G? Seamaster had one, but never got around to giving his impressions.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn discusses this on pages 990-991. Feels the '596' is superior to the RK-60. Clayton SF currently has both recs (596 & RK-60). And inside my listening room, the EML Glass is no match for the USAF-596. Hope this helps while I await sunrise and breakfast. And you, their comments still to come...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 2359glenn discusses this on pages 990-991. Feels the '596' is superior to the RK-60. Clayton SF currently has both recs (596 & RK-60). And inside my listening room, the EML Glass is no match for the USAF-596. Hope this helps while I await sunrise and breakfast. And you all, their comments still to come...


 

 Yeah, I read that too. Wasn't much of a comparison though (just the 596 should be better). Would be nice to get a direct comparison of the two, or how the RK-60 compares to the EML, since so far everyone agrees the 596 is better then the EML (at least on Woo Amps).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, jc. This is good to know. Just hope no outside interests bids them up!


 

 Maybe Jack Woo buys these up and sells them as the ultimate upgrade (charging more then the EML's).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah, things would get real tight real quick! However, the cables are doable because _*Glenn has the ability to "position" them. Looking at your real estate on top of the WA6, he could easily slot the cables to rise from the 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock position. *_The glass, on the other hand... just maybe.
> 
> Clayton had or has a WA6 if his massive collection hasn't clouded my memory. If he does, he could return a visual for you.


 

 The 596 with adapter in the WA6. The glass does clear the transformer box. Regarding the cables, mind you, the adapter is for the WA22 so as SilentOne has suggested (above in bold).
   
  EDIT: The wire in this configuration shows no stress on the adapter at all. The wires are very flexible and are made to take the hi temp of the tube if it were ever to touch the tube itself. Glenn has assured me of this. Glenn is also able to shorten the wires so that it does not come in contact with the transformer if that is an aesthetic issue in which you need addressed.
   
  I like the shrink tubing that binds the two wires together. Of course you don't need it if you want the wires separate. SilentOne has his "shoots" separated (and growing in a plant pot in his sound room).


----------



## dannie01

WOW! WOW! WOW!​  ​ WE HAVE 1,000 PAGES NOW!​


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Maybe Jack Woo buys these up and sells them as the ultimate upgrade (charging more then the EML's).


 


 That is an interesting assumption.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Head's up fellow Woo owners, I'm planning to fund a speaker amp and considering selling some of GEC power tubes and few others that I don't use much that I have as backup.  Since I'm using more of TS 7236 on my LCD-2, the GECs are sitting in the closet.
> 
> GEC 6AS7G pair, either round or straight base
> GEC 6080 pair, either NOS or <100 hours
> ...


 


   
  Sorry guys, wife said the tube mountains is not kid safe in family room.  So no new amp unless I go SS but I really prefer tubes.  So the tubes are not sale anymore.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sorry guys, wife said the tube mountains is not kid safe in family room.  So no new amp unless I go SS but I really prefer tubes.  So the tubes are not sale anymore.


 

 But, but, but, but you already have a hill of tubes around the house with your WA22. Oh well.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That is an interesting assumption.


 


  When I talked to Jack about the 596 tubes during RMAF he didn't even know where to find them so I think that is unlikely.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> When I talked to Jack about the 596 tubes during RMAF he didn't even know where to find them so I think that is unlikely.


 


 So we got luck.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> So we got luck.


 
   
  This is true, at least, of course, until the _NEXT_ great tube of Glenn's discovery making everyone green with envy!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> This is true, at least, of course, until the _NEXT_ great tube of Glenn's discovery making everyone green with envy!


 


 Yeah but everyone gonna move fast before all gone or new source been discovered,


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> But, but, but, but you already have a hill of tubes around the house with your WA22. Oh well.


 


   
   
  That is in my office, kids free zone.


----------



## Draygonn

Those 596's are so cool looking


dannie01 said:


> WOW! WOW! WOW!​WE HAVE 1,000 PAGES NOW!​




(in Conan O'Brien voice with flashlight up to face) _ In the page one thousand..._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yeah but everyone gonna move fast before all gone or new source been discovered,


 


   
  Yeah, I'm thinking getting another pair too.  Just incase I love them over the rest I have.


----------



## xinque

I'm probably in the minority here but I actually don't like the look of wires running out of the tubes..
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Those 596's are so cool looking
> (in Conan O'Brien voice with flashlight up to face) _ In the page one thousand..._


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sorry guys, wife said the tube mountains is not kid safe in family room.  So no new amp unless I go SS but I really prefer tubes.  So the tubes are not sale anymore.


 

  
  Solid state may be more dangerous!   This is one of the 4 Krell amps I owned. The Krell KSA 250.  140 lbs of heat fins and brutal edges that could slice and dice to out of existence if you fell on it.   I'd go wit the tubes...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xinque said:


> I'm probably in the minority here but I actually don't like the look of wires running out of the tubes..


 


  Maybe but what matters is how they sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The 596 with adapter in the WA6. The glass does clear the transformer box. Regarding the cables, mind you, the adapter is for the WA22 so as SilentOne has suggested (above in bold).
> 
> EDIT: The wire in this configuration shows no stress on the adapter at all. The wires are very flexible and are made to take the hi temp of the tube if it were ever to touch the tube itself. Glenn has assured me of this. Glenn is also able to shorten the wires so that it does not come in contact with the transformer if that is an aesthetic issue in which you need addressed.
> 
> I like the shrink tubing that binds the two wires together. Of course you don't need it if you want the wires separate. SilentOne has his "shoots" separated (and growing in a plant pot in his sound room).


 

  
   
  It was comforting to wake up this morning to see that memory still serves me. Thanks for the assist, Clayton.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Solid state may be more dangerous!   This is one of the 4 Krell amps I owned. The Krell KSA 250.  140 lbs of heat fins and brutal edges that could slice and dice to out of existence if you fell on it.   I'd go wit the tubes...


 
  x2
  I couldn't agree more. This one looks like a wicked sonic centipede ready to bite innocent children and young adults.
  Go with the tubes.
  
  Last night at a Halloween Party in San Francisco I came across the Diva Opera Singer from the Fifth Element and could help but think....
  Okay, I've now gone off the deep end if that's all I have on my mind.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> When I talked to Jack about the 596 tubes during RMAF he didn't even know where to find them so I think that is unlikely.


 


  A couple of thoughts. I would not underestimate Woo Audio's ability to source something. New interest (heated) in the '596' could lead to the uncovering of a huge, long forgotten stockpile among the Air Force, United Electronics Company or Third Party.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A couple of thoughts. I would not underestimate Woo Audio's ability to source something. New interest (heated) in the '596' could lead to the uncovering of a huge, long forgotten stockpile among the Air Force, United Electronics Company or Third Party.


 


   
  Based on my conversations with Jack they are concentrated to bring the 3 new products (Monoblock amps, DAC and CD Transport) to the market as soon as possible and also he hinted in other products potentially coming so I would expect for them to get into looking for these tubes heavily.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> This is true, at least, of course, until the _NEXT_ great tube of Glenn's discovery making everyone green with envy!


 


  Silent One now following 2359glenn on Twitter!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Based on my conversations with Jack they are concentrated to bring the 3 new products (Monoblock amps, DAC and CD Transport) to the market as soon as possible and also he hinted in other products potentially coming so I would expect for them to get into looking for these tubes heavily.


 


  Can't wait! I like the way Woo Audio has been emerging...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2
> I couldn't agree more. This one looks like a wicked sonic centipede ready to bite innocent children and young adults.
> Go with the tubes.
> 
> ...


 


_Strike A Pose, Girl!  Absolutely love it!!!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> WOW! WOW! WOW!​  ​ WE HAVE 1,000 PAGES NOW!​


 


   
  Tweaks, Myths & Rumors: _ The Sunday Edition_
   
   

 Rumors:  @ 1,000 pages, I heard the 'Unite' thread is set to get its own enhanced, dedicated search algorithm.
   
   
  Myths:  Woo Audio amps have been known to levitate inside the listening room. FALSE. Woo Audio amps will not physically levitate. But when dialed-in to a resolving system can bring the listener a levitating experience through sound.
   
   
  Tweaks:  Soil (Enriched or other) will NOT produce a more organic sounding tube. There was no money lost or plants harmed during my exercise over the weekend!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2
> I couldn't agree more. This one looks like a wicked sonic centipede ready to bite innocent children and young adults.
> Go with the tubes.


 
   
  One good thing about that beast of an amp is nobody is walking away with it at 140 lbs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> One good thing about that beast of an amp is nobody is walking away with it at 140 lbs.


 


  And certainly not in the desert heat!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And certainly not in the desert heat!


 


  That's why I got rid of my KSA 150.  That thing ran Class A and was HOT!  It was ok to operate when I lived in CT I used it to help heat the house but here in the Sonoran desert it was just sadistic to use.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> I'm probably in the minority here but I actually don't like the look of wires running out of the tubes..


 


  At-a-glance
   
  I never much cared for the wires either. Right up to Clayton posting some of the most aesthetically pleasing pix I'd ever seen with wires protruding. I haven't been right since. Giddy, perhaps...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That's why I got rid of my KSA 150.  That thing ran Class A and was HOT!  It was ok to operate when I lived in CT I used it to help heat the house but here in the Sonoran desert it was just sadistic to use.


 


  Talk about a lifestyle change! Tube selection could make your soon to be purchased Woo easier to deal with in that heat. Had I not switched over to 6SN7 tubes with adapters, I was prepared to buy a couple of small, quiet battery powered whisper fans. My Woo arrived in July and those 6EW7's ran the amp red hot!!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> At-a-glance
> 
> I never much cared for the wires either. Right up to Clayton posting some of the most aesthetically pleasing pix I'd ever seen with wires protruding. I haven't been right since. Giddy, perhaps...


 
  When I see those beautiful tubes with the wires on top like that I think of the laboratory lines from Mel Brooks "Young Frankenstein"
   
*Dr. Frederick Frankenstein*: Throw... the third switch! 
  
*Igor: *[_shocked_] Not the *third switch*! 
   
*Dr. Frederick Frankenstein:* LIFE! DO YOU HEAR ME? GIVE MY CREATION... LIFE!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> When I see those beautiful tubes with the wires on top like that I think of the laboratory lines from Mel Brooks "Young Frankenstein"
> 
> *Dr. Frederick Frankenstein*: Throw... the third switch!
> 
> ...


 


  If you thought I blew the minds of workers coming in to service the home before. Wait 'till the next Comcast rep sees the Woo complete with the '596' sittin' up!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If you thought I blew the minds of workers coming in to service the home before. Wait 'till the next Comcast rep sees the Woo complete with the '596' sittin' up!!!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If you thought I blew the minds of workers coming in to service the home before. Wait 'till the next Comcast rep sees the Woo complete with the '596' sittin' up!!!


 


   
  The Comcast guy laugh at me when he saw the Woo when he is in my office setting up the Internet said did I find that in Jurassic Park.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The Comcast guy laugh at me when he saw the Woo when he is in my office setting up the Internet said did I find that in Jurassic Park.


 


  should of made him listen to it, see if he still believes its from jurassic park


----------



## rawrster

I'm curious but are any of the cheaper Woo amps (6, 6SE, 2) able to drive orthos? My guess is the WA6SE as they have something for high and low impedance and the WA2 is an OTL. Most of my headphones that I'll have after I sell some off will be orthos with low impedance, a Grado based headphone and maybe get an HD800 or T1.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I'm curious but are any of the cheaper Woo amps (6, 6SE, 2) able to drive orthos? My guess is the WA6SE as they have something for high and low impedance and the WA2 is an OTL. Most of my headphones that I'll have after I sell some off will be orthos with low impedance, a Grado based headphone and maybe get an HD800 or T1.


 


  I can confirm that the WA2 was just great with the LCD-2s.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i believe my WA6SE can run orthos.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I can confirm that the WA2 was just great with the LCD-2s.


 


  Any idea about the HE500 or HE4? My HE500 are my hardest to drive right now


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Any idea about the HE500 or HE4? My HE500 are my hardest to drive right now


 


  It was surprisingly adequate with my HE-6s if that helps.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the  WA6SE according to woo's website can supply about 2W of power at 32 ohms, so its got some juice.
   
  it powers all my cans well, the hardest to drive being my dt 990s, still they are all driven fairly effortlessly. i find my k701's almost as hard to drive as my dt 990
   
   
  still all woo amps have quite alot of juice.


----------



## Draygonn

I ran HE-500s from my WA2 for 90 minutes and it drove them well.


----------



## PanamaRed

I've searched this thread and can't find my answer. Did Woo ever give the thumbs up for the 596? It certainly is not on the tube compatibility chart.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I've searched this thread and can't find my answer. Did Woo ever give the thumbs up for the 596? It certainly is not on the tube compatibility chart.


 


  At least for the WA5 and WA5LE yes. I send Jack an email and he replay they would work find but they need the adapters and he had not time to make them since all their efforts are dedicated to launch their new products. Based on his answer I ordered mine and Glenn's adapters.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> At least for the WA5 and WA5LE yes. I send Jack an email and he replay they would work find but they need the adapters and he had not time to make them since all their efforts are dedicated to launch their new products. Based on his answer I ordered mine and Glenn's adapters.


 


  Ahh thanks musicman. I ended up finding your post. Hopefully they will work with the WA22. Looks like something fun to roll in there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I'm curious but are any of the cheaper Woo amps (6, 6SE, 2) able to drive orthos? My guess is the WA6SE as they have something for high and low impedance and the WA2 is an OTL. Most of my headphones that I'll have after I sell some off will be orthos with low impedance, a Grado based headphone and maybe get an HD800 or T1.


 

_Who you callin' cheap?!_
   
  I just reentered the listening room and nearly spilled a perfectly poured glass of milk..._ ice cold, no less!_ "Cheaper" and "Woo amps" in the same sentence? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (just funnin', rawrster) Seriously, I found the _smartly_ priced _WA 6 Special Edition_ to drive the LCD-2's successfully with purpose. Although the treble is tolerable and the mid-bass suspect, it is a very engaging headphone. As in, you don't want the session to end... "Just one more song!" you shout as you're being called to dinner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I heard the LCD-2's express Al Jarreau's vocals in ways I had never known with a headphone before. Speakers, but not headphones!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just decided to switch out my Sofia princess 274B  for the stock 274B tube that came with my WA6SE, decided to share my experience with it
   
  might be lack of burn in, but i don't know, the stock tube sucked hard.
   
  it was SLIGHTLY more detailed and had a more up front and aggressive sound to it, but the smoothness was gone, the highs became harsh and sibilant (my 325is which i used to test this suddenly became very bright), and everything was just very gritty and rough. it was more dynamic, but that nice balanced combination of smoothness and detail was gone and all that was left is this very raw sound. while it might of been just a tad more dynamic and detailed, it wasn't as cleanly presented or as euphonic as the sofia.
   
  whether it was lacking burn-in or not, one things for sure, the sofia sounded better when it was fresh new than the stock does.
   
   
   
  perhaps the stock tubes sound might benefit  other cans better such as the hd 650 (which for some reason my new pair despite being new drivers sounds alot more veiled than my last pair, maybe they just need more burn in as my other pair had 1500+ hours burn in)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just decided to switch out my Sofia princess 274B  for the stock 274B tube that came with my WA6SE, decided to share my experience with it
> 
> might be lack of burn in, but i don't know, the stock tube sucked hard.
> 
> ...


 


  Glad to hear you survived that little exercise, Dubstep Girl. Once, I too, shared your curiosity. Having never heard the stock rectifier before, I swapped out Miss Sophia some 1,200 hours later for a taste. _So rough, it nearly cut my tongue!  _






  _Or ear, if you like._
   
  I fought my way through an entire 60 minutes, taking the cans off, putting them back on... I couldn't take it anymore. I eventually used stock tubes to burn-in new components. And despite increased hours, they will always serve as back up.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so why does jack include them if they're so bad? thats what i don't get,  the WA6SE is a great amp but the stock tube isn't very good


----------



## rawrster

Thanks everyone..It does look like it is time to start saving up for a WA2. Although I'd say at least half of that will be done when I sell my DT880 and HE4 (possibly) or at least 30-40% after I sell my DT880. The WA2 does look nicer in one unit rather than two 
  
  I'm a bit curious but if I had two dac's connected to the WA2 via RCA (as it has 4 pairs of RCA according to the pictures) would I be able to switch the dac's for comparison? I was sad when my V200 amp would not do this so I decided to make my PPAv2 come out of retirement to use as a second rig for synergy and to see just how good a budget system can get.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Who you callin' cheap?!_
> 
> I just reentered the listening room and nearly spilled a perfectly poured glass of milk..._ ice cold, no less!_ "Cheaper" and "Woo amps" in the same sentence?
> 
> ...


 
  I did say cheaper  They aren't cheap by any standards but I can actually take that hit compared to some other amps around here. That WA5 makes these amps I'm looking at seem like the steal of the century..or rather that prototype WA234  I got a meet coming up so hopefully Woo brings the WA2 to try.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Thanks everyone..It does look like it is time to start saving up for a WA2. Although I'd say at least half of that will be done when I sell my DT880 and HE4 (possibly) or at least 30-40% after I sell my DT880. The WA2 does look nicer in one unit rather than two
> 
> I'm a bit curious but if I had two dac's connected to the WA2 via RCA (as it has 4 pairs of RCA according to the pictures) would I be able to switch the dac's for comparison? I was sad when my V200 amp would not do this so I decided to make my PPAv2 come out of retirement to use as a second rig for synergy and to see just how good a budget system can get.
> 
> I did say cheaper  They aren't cheap by any standards but I can actually take that hit compared to some other amps around here. That WA5 makes these amps I'm looking at seem like the steal of the century..or rather that prototype WA234  I got a meet coming up so hopefully Woo brings the WA2 to try.


 

 will be buying a WA2 and T1 by xmas hopefully if all continues to go well


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Thanks everyone..It does look like it is time to start saving up for a WA2. Although I'd say at least half of that will be done when I sell my DT880 and HE4 (possibly) or at least 30-40% after I sell my DT880. The WA2 does look nicer in one unit rather than two
> 
> I'm a bit curious but if I had two dac's connected to the WA2 via RCA (as it has 4 pairs of RCA according to the pictures) would I be able to switch the dac's for comparison? I was sad when my V200 amp would not do this so I decided to make my PPAv2 come out of retirement to use as a second rig for synergy and to see just how good a budget system can get.
> 
> I did say cheaper  They aren't cheap by any standards but I can actually take that hit compared to some other amps around here. That WA5 makes these amps I'm looking at seem like the steal of the century..or rather that prototype WA234  I got a meet coming up so hopefully Woo brings the WA2 to try.


 


  Yes, you would be able to switch. I've long run two DACs into my WA6SE via bridge (so I can evaluate DACs on loan).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> will be buying a WA2 and T1 by xmas hopefully if all continues to go well


 







 No doubt they will. Things have been going very well for you. As a fellow member, we are proud.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I can confirm that the WA2 was just great with the LCD-2s.


 

 I second this. I find that I like my WA2 with the LCD-2.2 almost exactly as much as I like the Lyr with the LCD 2.2... which is to say, quite a bit.
   
  The WA2 is quite good with the HE-500 as well (especially in the bass), while as Peter mentions, the WA2/HE-6 combo is surprisingly acceptable. I woudn't recommend it as a "desert island" pairing by any means, but a properly tubed WA2 brings out a lot of the HE-6's unique qualities.


----------



## mikemalter

Just saw that we are the most posted thread in the full range amplifier board at a little over 15-thousand posts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so why does jack include them if they're so bad? thats what i don't get,  the WA6SE is a great amp but the stock tube isn't very good


 

 To fit base price. Any customer worthy of their salt will know to ask for something if they don't see it on a menu. _And you'll pay for it dearly! (maybe not, but...) _


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I second this. I find that I like my WA2 with the LCD-2.2 almost exactly as much as I like the Lyr with the LCD 2.2... which is to say, quite a bit.
> 
> The WA2 is quite good with the HE-500 as well (especially in the bass), while as Peter mentions, the WA2/HE-6 combo is surprisingly acceptable. I woudn't recommend it as a "desert island" pairing by any means, but a properly tubed WA2 brings out a lot of the HE-6's unique qualities.


 


  If you had to choose between the WA2 or the Lyr for the LCD what would it be?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> If you had to choose between the WA2 or the Lyr for the LCD what would it be?


 







  _WarrirorAnt... the horror!  _You had one of the coolest avatars on head-fi, rockin' the LCD'2's. A bad audio experience?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _WarrirorAnt... the horror!  _You had one of the coolest avatars on head-fi, rockin' the LCD'2's.


 


  Well it's the one day I can freely roam the earth so I had to change it for 24 hours...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well it's the one day I can freely roam the earth so I had to change it for 24 hours...


 


  Ah, Sunday remix, Monday refresh. O.k, I'm widit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I'm fortunate, WA, this week I'll finally be able to bring home a new Cat for my WA6SE to play with. The only thing that could possibly challenge this purchase would be a new $30 AC wall duplex from Home Depot. Hmmm...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Just saw that we are the most posted thread in the full range amplifier board at a little over 15-thousand posts.


 

 I learned a lot from many of you through your contributions well before and after the purchase of my WA6SE.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Thanks everyone..It does look like it is time to start saving up for a WA2. Although I'd say at least half of that will be done when I sell my DT880 and HE4 (possibly) or at least 30-40% after I sell my DT880. The WA2 does look nicer in one unit rather than two
> 
> I'm a bit curious but if I had two dac's connected to the WA2 via RCA (as it has 4 pairs of RCA according to the pictures) would I be able to switch the dac's for comparison? I was sad when my V200 amp would not do this so I decided to make my PPAv2 come out of retirement to use as a second rig for synergy and to see just how good a budget system can get.
> 
> I did say cheaper  They aren't cheap by any standards but I can actually take that hit compared to some other amps around here. That WA5 makes these amps I'm looking at seem like the steal of the century..or rather that prototype WA234  I got a meet coming up so hopefully Woo brings the WA2 to try.


 

  
  Woo Audio is going to be represented at an upcoming meet in your area? Great! But pepper them with questions about street date for their branded headphone...


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> If you had to choose between the WA2 or the Lyr for the LCD what would it be?




I'd opt for the Lyr. If they sound the same the Lyr is much cheaper. Personally I think the Lyr plays to the LCD's strengths better than the WA2.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Glad to hear you survived that little exercise, Dubstep Girl. Once, I too, shared your curiosity. Having never heard the stock rectifier before, I swapped out Miss Sophia some 1,200 hours later for a taste. _So rough, it nearly cut my tongue!  _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sophia mesh plate?


----------



## rawrster

I'm curious but around how much would you say I would need to spend for upgraded tubes? I know that tubes are usually not the best and I'd imagine that to be the case on the WA2. I've never been that interested in tubes but a good tube amp would be nice to go along with a good solid state amp. Also any idea which ones make the biggest difference for sound in terms of power, driver, rectifier tubes.
   
  I got some research to do on tubes first before buying


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I'm curious but around how much would you say I would need to spend for upgraded tubes? I know that tubes are usually not the best and I'd imagine that to be the case on the WA2. I've never been that interested in tubes but a good tube amp would be nice to go along with a good solid state amp. Also any idea which ones make the biggest difference for sound in terms of power, driver, rectifier tubes.
> 
> I got some research to do on tubes first before buying


 

 rawrster, this one is a pretty good post. http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/9255#post_7389554


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The Comcast guy laugh at me when he saw the Woo when he is in my office setting up the Internet said did I find that in Jurassic Park.


 

 That guy is really from the Jurassic Park, let him listen your Woo and pull him back to the real world.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> If you had to choose between the WA2 or the Lyr for the LCD what would it be?


 

  
  Oooooh.
   
  Well, if the LCD 2.2 were my only headphone, and I wanted to have just one amp, the Lyr would probably win by a nose. It's a more dynamic pairing with the LCD-2.2, while the WA2 is more of a soulful, musical partner.
   
  It goes without saying, of course, that the best answer is "get both."


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Oooooh.
> 
> Well, if the LCD 2.2 were my only headphone, and I wanted to have just one amp, the Lyr would probably win by a nose. It's a more dynamic pairing with the LCD-2.2, while the WA2 is more of a soulful, musical partner.
> 
> It goes without saying, of course, that the best answer is "get both."


 
  Wow that is a dilemma on the audiophile soul.   Is there a woo amp that combines the dynamics of the Lyr with the soulful musical offerings of the WA2?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Sophia mesh plate?


 


  correct.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Wow that is a dilemma on the audiophile soul.   Is there a woo amp that combines the dynamics of the Lyr with the soulful musical offerings of the WA2?


 


  Good question. I've never heard the WA22 or WA5. Perhaps one of them is the holy grail for the LCD-2.2?
   
  Personally, I am strongly tempted by the Liquid Fire, though that would require me to sell both the WA2 and Lyr (and maybe my T1s as well).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Good question. I've never heard the WA22 or WA5. Perhaps one of them is the holy grail for the LCD-2.2?
> 
> Personally, I am strongly tempted by the Liquid Fire, though that would require me to sell both the WA2 and Lyr (and maybe my T1s as well).


 
  Yes the Liquid Fire is like a siren calling.   But then I'd have to sell the V200 and that's not going to happen.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Yes the Liquid Fire is like a siren calling.   But then I'd have to sell the V200 and that's not going to happen.


 

 Yup. I'm keeping my V200 as well. It's just too good with the balanced outs of the W4S DAC2.


----------



## rawrster

Yeah I wouldn't sell the V200 either. It's a nice amp that can drive something as sensitive as my customs and then my HE500 without breaking a sweat and does not take up that much space.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Yup. I'm keeping my V200 as well. It's just too good with the balanced outs of the W4S DAC2.


 


  The price of the WASE6 and the WA2 seems pretty reasonable, but the price of the Lyr is almost obligatory.


----------



## Silent One

Tube Giveaway!
   
  Like many new, exciting things and experiences, one can overindulge and burn out. After this weekend, I reached saturation with my new rectifier. And because I lack the will to place inside the drawer until Spring (March), I have decided to give away the vaunted and much heralded USAF-596.
   
  Before anyone thinks I'm either way too generous or way too crazy, I am keeping the adapter, get your own! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This way, I can quickly resume my affair with the tube next year. 
   
*RESTRICTIONS APPLY: *
   
*1) Must have no more than 6 months of ownership of your Woo Audio amp. (this is to help new owners on their way)*
   
*2) Must have a completed profile. This is how I will determine which member will be awarded. *
   
*3) Will accept the first 12 PM's sent. (Who's counting?! I'll accept all qualifying PM's until 2300 hours tonight, when my next listening session begins)*


----------



## Silent One

*RE: Tube Giveaway!*
   
   
*Trick or treat!!!*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Sophia mesh plate?


 

  
  The journey with my beloved _WA 6 Special Edition_ began with RCA 6EW7's & Sophia Princess 274B Mesh Plate. At hour 425, I ventured into 6SN7 land with NOS GE 6SN7GTA's - 1953. And then paired Miss Sophia with Raytheon 6SN7WGT's - 1949. This last swap did it! The Woo handled Jazz & Blues as well as any Jazz/Blues Night Club owner could!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Yes the Liquid Fire is like a siren calling.   But then I'd have to sell the V200 and that's not going to happen.


 
  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Yup. I'm keeping my V200 as well. It's just too good with the balanced outs of the W4S DAC2.


 


  You guys are tempting me! As an owner of the W4S DAC-1 (Upgraded Digital Board; Low ESR "Super Caps") with lonely XLR Outs, talk to me on the other side about the V200. What have I been missing with this combo?!  A lower noise floor, blacker background? PM to come...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


> You guys are tempting me! As an owner of the W4S DAC-1 (Upgraded Digital Board; Low ESR "Super Caps") with lonely XLR Outs, talk to me on the other side about the V200. What have I been missing with this combo?! PM to come...


 
  Your'e a tube guy 1000% SilentOne.  SS isn't for you...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Best to get a WA22 for those lonely XLR outs...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tube Giveaway!
> 
> Like many new, exciting things and experiences, one can overindulge and burn out. After this weekend, I reached saturation with my new rectifier. And because I lack the will to place inside the drawer until Spring (March), I have decided to give away the vaunted and much heralded USAF-596.
> 
> ...


 


  Do I qualify?  (play dumb)

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Your'e a tube guy 1000% SilentOne.  SS isn't for you...
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  X2, just go for the WA22.  On SS, go for the balanced beta22.  Humm, both 22... I guess I'm crazy for 22...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, just go for the WA22.  On SS, go for the balanced beta22.  Humm, both 22... I guess I'm crazy for 22...


 

 The W22 is however more twice the price after tube compliments and a good B22 build might even get near 2.5 to 3.X the price of the V200.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The W22 is however more twice the price after tube compliments and a good B22 build might even get near 2.5 to 3.X the price of the V200.


 


  True but if you can only choose one, I rather save up and get the one I really wanted.  It will save you more money download, at least for me.  Gone down the road with Gilmore, WA6 maxxed, Burson HA160D, couples lower end AGD and Phoenix.  If I go straight to WA22 in the first place, I probably save enough to get the BGRP and GECs.  The beta22 is something I want to complement the WA22 for more analytical side while the WA22 is slightly more lush.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> Tube Giveaway!
> 
> ...>




Well that's a super generous All Hallows Eve treat. Nice one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Well that's a super generous All Hallows Eve treat. Nice one.


 


_I saw you leaning!  _





  Cleverly, I was lying in wait and counting posts in an attempt for a page break - it worked!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Do I qualify?  (play dumb)
> 
> 
> 
> X2, just go for the WA22.  On SS, go for the balanced beta22.  Humm, both 22... I guess I'm crazy for 22...


 

  
   
  RE: Tube Giveaway!
   
  Earlier this morning, jc9394 agreed in principle to purchase a pair WA-234 Mono blocks from Jack in January 2012. So, technically.......... _he's in there!_


----------



## Pudu

:eek:

LOL!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> True but if you can only choose one, I rather save up and get the one I really wanted.  It will save you more money download, at least for me.  Gone down the road with Gilmore, WA6 maxxed, Burson HA160D, couples lower end AGD and Phoenix.  If I go straight to WA22 in the first place, I probably save enough to get the BGRP and GECs.  The beta22 is something I want to complement the WA22 for more analytical side while the WA22 is slightly more lush.


 


  Sometimes, I find myself conflicted in the same listening session. There's moments where I want (demand) "Delicate." To hear lush yet, feather light notes of Astrud Gilberto with a decay to die for! Or the honey-drenched voice of Soul & Gospel singer Candi Staton. Or Cuban songstress Xiomara Laugart!
   
  Other times, I need more Slam than Barry Bonds! I want my music to hit like there will be no second chance!!! It's at this point I drag the Pioneer iron out into the open. So, I can see keeping both Tubes & SS inside the listening room.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sometimes, I find myself conflicted in the same listening session. There's moments where I want (demand) "Delicate." To hear lush yet, feather light notes of Astrud Gilberto with a decay to die for! Or the honey-drenched voice of Soul & Gospel singer Candi Staton. Or Cuban songstress Xiomara Laugart!
> 
> Other times, I need more Slam than Barry Bonds! I want my music to hit like there will be no second chance!!! It's at this point I drag the Pioneer iron out into the open. So, I can see keeping both Tubes & SS inside the listening room.


 

 IMO, your WA6SE is kind of the jack of all trades, master of none in these areas. It's never truly deficient in either delicate lushness or violent slam, but it's never the be-all end-all in these things either. I haven't heard it with your tube selection, of course. Roughly the same thing could be said about the V200, I suppose. It does everything very, very well, but it will never replace the lushness of a tube amp, nor will it have the ruthless slam of a top-end SS amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Your'e a tube guy 1000% SilentOne.  SS isn't for you...
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You know, since summer I had tried to buy a pre-owned WA22 from a few of our fellow members. You'd have thought I was out selling 'Crack' door-to-door! Because I couldn't get any current owners to even open the front door to negotiations (was offering a premium). I withdrew my efforts at September's end.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> IMO, your WA6SE is kind of the jack of all trades, master of none in these areas. It's never truly deficient in either delicate lushness or violent slam, but it's never the be-all end-all in these things either. I haven't heard it with your tube selection, of course. Roughly the same thing could be said about the V200, I suppose. It does everything very, very well, but it will never replace the lushness of a tube amp, nor will it have the ruthless slam of a top-end SS amp.


 

  
  Well said. We understand better now. The very first time I heard a WA22 it was over at Clayton's apartment. He queued Astrud Gilberto - "Non-Stop To Brazil." _I thought I was going to die! But not before I could finish tracking inside the room - her notes hung delicately for what seemed like an eternity. _




   
  This is when my lust for the '22' began...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You know, since summer I had tried to buy a pre-owned WA22 from a few of our fellow members. You'd have thought I was out selling 'Crack' door-to-door! Because I couldn't get any current owners to even open the front door to negotiations (was offering a premium). I withdrew my efforts at September's end.


 

 I went through that trying to wrestle away a Peak/Volcano from a few guys.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sometimes, I find myself conflicted in the same listening session. There's moments where I want (demand) "Delicate." To hear lush yet, feather light notes of Astrud Gilberto with a decay to die for! Or the honey-drenched voice of Soul & Gospel singer Candi Staton. Or Cuban songstress Xiomara Laugart!
> 
> Other times, I need more Slam than Barry Bonds! I want my music to hit like there will be no second chance!!! It's at this point I drag the Pioneer iron out into the open. So, I can see keeping both Tubes & SS inside the listening room.


 

 I went through more than a decade of that kind of desire with power amps and large speaker rigs.  That experience has helped me put into perspective what I can and cannot achieve with a headphone rig but more to the point at what financial level the headphone rig should probably just morph back into a power amp/speaker rig.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> IMO, your WA6SE is kind of the jack of all trades, master of none in these areas. It's never truly deficient in either delicate lushness or violent slam, but it's never the be-all end-all in these things either. I haven't heard it with your tube selection, of course. Roughly the same thing could be said about the V200, I suppose. It does everything very, very well, but it will never replace the lushness of a tube amp, nor will it have the ruthless slam of a top-end SS amp.


 

 Excellent summary, nicely explained.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I went through more than a decade of that kind of desire with power amps and large speaker rigs.  That experience has helped me put into perspective what I can and cannot achieve with a headphone rig but more to the point at what financial level the headphone rig should probably just morph back into a power amp/speaker rig.


 

 That's a very important point you're making! I am proud to say I assembled my initial rig last year on a shoe-string budget. But this year has seen an escalation of buys. If I were granted a headphone system of choice at any price point above $7k, I'd likely ask for a speaker based rig instead. HP listening, though nice and has its place, is restrictive (for me). I want to feel alive for that kind of money (large sums).


----------



## Silent One

Halloween --
   
  Speaking of treats, by my own estimates, we should have a wonderful treat coming this week. For those of you who may have gotten distracted by their Candy-Corn & Kit-Kats, mikemalter is putting the final touches (unconfirmed at this writing) on his modded WA22 review. And how it pairs with his Bryston front-end... _exciting stuff still-to-come! _


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Halloween --
> 
> Speaking of treats, by my own estimates, we should have a wonderful treat coming this week. For those of you who may have gotten distracted by their Candy-Corn & Kit-Kats, mikemalter is putting the final touches (unconfirmed at this writing) on his modded WA22 review. And how it pairs with his Bryston front-end... _exciting stuff still-to-come! _


 

 Bryston?  What happened to the W4S DAC-2?


----------



## Draygonn

HD800s arrived. :atsmile:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Bryston?  What happened to the W4S DAC-2?


 


  He still has his W4S box. His front-end (Digital Audio Player) is the Bryston BDP-1. Perhaps, you're thinking of the BDA-1 (DAC).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> HD800s arrived.


 

  
  Forget Halloween and the front door... _warm it up!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on your purchase.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I second this. I find that I like my WA2 with the LCD-2.2 almost exactly as much as I like the Lyr with the LCD 2.2... which is to say, quite a bit.
> 
> The WA2 is quite good with the HE-500 as well (especially in the bass), while as Peter mentions, the WA2/HE-6 combo is surprisingly acceptable. I woudn't recommend it as a "desert island" pairing by any means, *but a properly tubed WA2 brings out a lot of the HE-6's unique qualities.*


 


  It was surprising to me too about how the WA2 seemed to power my HE-6s. Glad I wasn't hallucinating.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *RE: Tube Giveaway!*
> 
> 
> *Trick or treat!!!*


 

 REMINDER --
   
  To all the wonderful members sending me PM's regarding the "Tube Giveaway," it was a Halloween Trick. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But thanks for participating... and "Happy Halloween!"


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> REMINDER --
> 
> To all the wonderful members sending me PM's regarding the "Tube Giveaway," it was a Halloween Trick.
> 
> ...


 


 You really are a


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> It was surprising to me too about how the WA2 seemed to power my HE-6s. Glad I wasn't hallucinating.


 


  Your list of Full-size cans looks like Mercedes Row... impressive!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> You really are a


 


  An innocent thought that began..._"What if?"_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm in damage control, I've some PM's to send. Wanna restore my standing inside the thread.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your list of Full-size cans looks like Mercedes Row... impressive!


 

 Thanks. Next up...a pair of LCD-3s -->  hopefully in a few weeks...can't wait.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Thanks. Next up...a pair of LCD-3s -->  hopefully in a few weeks...can't wait.


 


  I heard of closing out the year on a positive note... but that takes the cake! Is there not a Emoticon for "Envy?!" Always enjoyed your thoughtful and thorough reviews - can't wait for the LCD-3 review!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I heard of closing out the year on a positive note... but that takes the cake! Is there not a Emoticon for "Envy?!" Always enjoyed your thoughtful and thorough reviews - can't wait for the LCD-3 review!


 

 Thanks dude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  When they arrive (hopefully sooner than later), I plan to publish a comparative review against my LCD-2 (r2s) and other cans...though with the Christmas season approaching (starting tomorrow I guess....) it might take a little longer than usual.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> HD800s arrived.


 

 awesomeness.....


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> awesomeness.....


 


  Looks like he's taking good care of my WA2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Thanks dude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Not if you get some help (pick me pick me!)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not if you get some help (pick me pick me!)


 

  
  I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## Clayton SF

Okay. No more amps for me. I ordered this before I went to Amsterdam--that is on August 5. And it has arrived. And this will be my last amp this year. Donald North's Stratus is next and then that's it for me.
   
  This is the new addition to my Amp Farm--the Mini Torii.
   
  SilentOne. Now I wonder what Astrud would sound like on the Mini Torii--probably no Mini Astrud, that's for sure!
   


   
  That's all he wrote. Happy Halloween!


----------



## Rawrbington

so i just got my WA 3.
  is it normal that i have to turn the volume up past 12 oclock for moderately loud volume on Beyer 990/600?
   
  don't get me wrong it sounds freaking great.  but im surprised i have to crank it so far


----------



## Pudu

clayton sf said:


> ...That's all he wrote. ...!




That's all?

:rolleyes:


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> so i just got my WA 3.
> is it normal that i have to turn the volume up past 12 oclock for moderately loud volume on Beyer 990/600?
> 
> don't get me wrong it sounds freaking great.  but im surprised i have to crank it so far


 


  its normal, the WA3 is an entry-level woo audio amp with alot less power than its bigger brothers. it should sound amazing tho and easily power other headphones like hd 650s.
   
   
  on my WA6SE like 10 oclock is comfortable for anything, and i never turn past noon or else it will hurt as it gets loud and probably the sound will clip cause its too much power for my cans


----------



## Clayton SF

OMG. This amp is great to look at (I followed Skylab's lead in many an amp--thanks Skylab.) But right out of the box... look; no dust! Like a newly born baby!
   
  That won't last long in this San Francisco grit and grime. It too new--needs to burn in.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG. This amp is great to look at (I followed Skylab's lead in many an amp--thanks Skylab.) But right out of the box... look; no dust! Like a newly born baby!
> 
> That won't last long in this San Francisco grit and grime. It too new--needs to burn in.


 

  
  That's it! After I pay bills the 1st of the month, I'm buying B.A.R.T. tix and visiting Clayton!!!!!! Congrats Dad on bringing home your newest born.


----------



## Silent One

Fortunate for me, I may not have a lot of gear (understatement), _but I do have a lot head-fi and Woo Audio amp neighbors!  _


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That's it! After I pay bills the 1st of the month, I'm buying B.A.R.T. tix and visiting Clayton!!!!!! Congrats Dad on bringing home your newest born.


 

 Shoot, I'll mail you a B.A.R.T. tix. I have lots of them. I'll mail you one tomorrow. PM me your address.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Shoot, I'll mail you a B.A.R.T. tix. I have lots of them. I'll mail you one tomorrow. PM me your address.


 


  I go through BART tix like lunch! Always roaming around Oakland-Berkeley. Keeps the miles down on the car. You be the greatest! PM coming and quickly!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> its normal, the WA3 is an entry-level woo audio amp with alot less power than its bigger brothers. it should sound amazing tho and easily power other headphones like hd 650s.


 
  i can't express how awesome it sounds on my 600 ohm 990s but i think you might already have an idea.
   
  interestingly enough, i was powering them with an old pioneer reciever, and the woo is actually a little flatter.  dulls the highs a little and its not a bassy as the receiver was.
  but the detail and warmth.  mmmmmmm mmm


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i can't express how awesome it sounds on my 600 ohm 990s but i think you might already have an idea.
> 
> interestingly enough, i was powering them with an old pioneer reciever, and the woo is actually a little flatter.  dulls the highs a little and its not a bassy as the receiver was.
> but the detail and warmth.  mmmmmmm mmm


 


  I have a 1977 SX-650. Which one do you have?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG. This amp is great to look at (I followed Skylab's lead in many an amp--thanks Skylab.) But right out of the box... look; no dust! Like a newly born baby!
> 
> That won't last long in this San Francisco grit and grime. It too new--needs to burn in.


 

 OMG, it's beautiful!


----------



## Rawrbington

i think its an early 80s sx 300
   
  waht can you guys tell me about a high pitched whinning noise in the right channel?
  its constant.  not just for a few minutes right after power up


----------



## mikemalter

Did I get voted off of the island?  For some reason all of my subscriptions stopped working.  Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Solid state may be more dangerous!   This is one of the 4 Krell amps I owned. The Krell KSA 250.  140 lbs of heat fins and brutal edges that could slice and dice to out of existence if you fell on it.   I'd go wit the tubes...


 

 What is the weight?  They look HEAVY!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i can't express how awesome it sounds on my 600 ohm 990s but i think you might already have an idea.
> 
> interestingly enough, i was powering them with an old pioneer reciever, and the woo is actually a little flatter.  dulls the highs a little and its not a bassy as the receiver was.
> but the detail and warmth.  mmmmmmm mmm


 


  the woos are supposed to be neutral and euphonic rather than colored.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> should of made him listen to it, see if he still believes its from jurassic park


 


 It's a Woolocaraptor!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the woos are supposed to be neutral and euphonic rather than colored.


 


  it sounds so good.  i think i might have a microphonic tube though.  or somehting.  could it be the placement on the desk? next to the monitor and right in front of computer speakers


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no, i was talking about the receiver being colored compared to the more neutral flavor of the woo.
   
  however, if the bass isn't very good or the highs are a little dull, thats just signs that it needs burn-in.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> it sounds so good.  i think i might have a microphonic tube though.  or somehting.  could it be the placement on the desk? next to the monitor and right in front of computer speakers


 


  Could be. But try swapping tubes to see if it travels with the tube placement. And check to make sure the surface is somewhat isolated.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Did I get voted off of the island?  For some reason all of my subscriptions stopped working.  Has this happened to anyone else?


 


  Cannot confirm, I have no subscriptions. But it's good to see you back in this space representing mikemalter! Hope I didn't land myself in trouble when I reported earlier that you're likely putting the final touches on your modded WA22 review.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Could be. but try swapping tubes to see if it travels with the tube placement. And check to make sure the surface is somewhat isolated.
> .


 
  will do.  if i lightly tap on the top of the amp with my finger in the front where it says WA3 the whine changes and breaks up or sometimes stops.  its not a loud whine but its there.  what does that mean?  also its only out of the right channel

  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> no, i was talking about the receiver being colored compared to the more neutral flavor of the woo.
> 
> however, if the bass isn't very good or the highs are a little dull, thats just signs that it needs burn-in.


 
  yeah, me too.  the woo is awesome.  i just didn't realize how colored the receiver was until now.  no regrets though


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> OMG, it's beautiful!


 


  Beautiful indeed. Looks like it could be an aerial view of downtown LA... but I couldn't find Staples Center.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> will do.  if i lightly tap on the top of the amp with my finger in the front where it says WA3 the whine changes and breaks up or sometimes stops.  its not a loud whine but its there.  what does that mean?  also its only out of the right channel
> 
> 
> yeah, me too.  the woo is awesome.  i just didn't realize how colored the receiver was until now.  no regrets though


 


   dunno what it could be, not an expert on amps, but i dont think its a good thing. either way glad ur happy with the woo, good amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> will do.  if i lightly tap on the top of the amp with my finger in the front where it says WA3 the whine changes and breaks up or sometimes stops.  its not a loud whine but its there.  what does that mean?  also its only out of the right channel
> 
> 
> yeah, me too.  the woo is awesome.  i just didn't realize how colored the receiver was until now.  no regrets though


 


  I take it we're awaiting cool-down before the swap? Take your time (try not to "cycle" your amp on/off), we'll be on the side lines listening out for you later...


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah.  cooling now.  switching soon


----------



## Rawrbington

hmm...
  Still the right side...
   
  ill try relocating it tomorrow.
  and swap out the power tube.  it came with extra power tubes but i only have the 2 drive tubes.  seller said the drive tubes were very new.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> What is the weight?  They look HEAVY!


 


  Mike the KSA 250 weighed 140 lbs.   It was A BEAST!
   
   My Krell KSA 150 weighed 80 lbs.  I sold the KSA 150 back in April.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Mike the KSA 250 weighed 140 lbs.   It was A BEAST!
> 
> My Krell KSA 150 weighed 80 lbs.  I sold the KSA 150 back in April.


 


  omg wow i would never be able to move it lol
   
   
  good news, my hd 650s are burning in more tho, the veil is almost completely gone but the bass is still kinda weak (this compared to my old hd 650s with 2000+ hrs of burnin)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> omg wow i would never be able to move it lol
> 
> 
> good news, my hd 650s are burning in more tho, the veil is almost completely gone but the bass is still kinda weak (this compared to my old hd 650s with 2000+ hrs of burnin)


 


  I'm looking forward to 2000+ hours on the D7000's (currently at 777 hrs, a ways to go). The D5000's left me grinnin' @ 1900+ hours; became a completely different can!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG. This amp is great to look at (I followed Skylab's lead in many an amp--thanks Skylab.) But right out of the box... look; no dust! Like a newly born baby!
> 
> That won't last long in this San Francisco grit and grime. It too new--needs to burn in.


 


  Looks like I need to make a trip to SF soon to give this a try...


----------



## jc9394

New toys received a little earlier...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> New toys received a little earlier...


 


  This was very pleasing to look at with afternoon tea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  After NCIS: Los Angeles, I'll be under the hood making changes to the music server (Snow Leopard > Lion). And back in session with my own '596' listening for differences.


----------



## Silent One

Mid-Afternoon Thoughts --
   
  While enjoying an elegant bowl of Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearl, I was thinking, what are the odds Clayton's amps make it onto his holiday greeting cards?


----------



## Pudu

Decware the halls with Tubes of Woo ooo ... ?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Mid-Afternoon Thoughts --
> 
> While enjoying an elegant bowl of Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearl...


 
   
  ...ah, delighful! I am at work, enjoying the last of my 2011 Makaibari first flush and relishing the tube photos posted this afternoon. I can't wait to get home to my newly downloaded copy of Bill Evans "Waltz For Debby" and my LCD-2.2...


----------



## Silent One

Hmmm, so now I wonder... how rich would my '596' look if the adapter lead wires were all black?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> ...ah, delighful! I am at work, enjoying the last of my 2011 Makaibari first flush and relishing the tube photos posted this afternoon. I can't wait to get home to my newly downloaded copy of Bill Evans "Waltz For Debby" and my LCD-2.2...


 


  You my friend, have style. Did you get "Waltz For Debby" in 24/96kHz?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You my friend, have style. Did you get "Waltz For Debby" in 24/96kHz?


 

 I did indeed. I've decided that for the time being and with my questionable bandwith at home, the 24/96 files will suffice, even when 24/192 versions are available. I may regret this someday... but then again, I may not.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I did indeed. I've decided that for the time being and with my questionable bandwith at home, the 24/96 files will suffice, even when 24/192 versions are available. I may regret this someday... but then again, I may not.


 


  You'll be fine. 24/192kHz files can be the exception. But most consumer components do 24/96Khz better most of the time. And the 'Majors' (Studios/Record Labels) moved a few years ago to archive their masters in 24/96kHz. Yes, they have masters at other resolutions, but for the most part...


----------



## Rawrbington

so my whine or hum appears it was coming from the RCA 6AS7g power tube.
  all the while i was worried about the drive tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Some 6AS7s can be noisy, particularly the RCAs.  If the tube is NOS there is a pretty good chance it will settle down with use actually, but that's not a certainty.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think its NOS.
  i didn't buy the tube it just came with the amp but its got a sticker on the box that says it was tested on 10/19/11 by a recording supply store.
   
  maybe i need to break it in.
   
  what about a Tung Sol 5998?
  it looks jack like the 6AS7
   
  and unfortunately, this being my first decent tube amp, i already want a wa 2 or wa 6se.
  i need more headroom than theis wa3 is supplying.
   
  which is better for lower impedance cans?  the 2 or 6se?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Mid-Afternoon Thoughts --
> 
> While enjoying an elegant bowl of Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearl, I was thinking, what are the odds Clayton's amps make it onto his holiday greeting cards?


 

 It just hit me looking at this picture.  He must spend a fortune on interconnects and power cables for all of his equipment let alone tubes!


----------



## jc9394

Does it matter how the 596 insert in the adapter?  It does not have a pin guide.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Does it matter how the 596 insert in the adapter?  It does not have a pin guide.


 


 The two larger pins go in the socket holes with the dot between them. Do not try to force the tube in the wrong way


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The two larger pins go in the socket holes with the dot between them. Do not try to force the tube in the wrong way


 

 Can I have my wires touch the tube glass on the back to tuck them further back, or should the wires never touch the glass?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The two larger pins go in the socket holes with the dot between them. Do not try to force the tube in the wrong way


 


   
   
  Thanks Glenn, looks like I got it right when I try to get the logo inthe front.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Mid-Afternoon Thoughts --
> 
> While enjoying an elegant bowl of Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearl, I was thinking, what are the odds Clayton's amps make it onto his holiday greeting cards?


 

 Wow, thats quite the setup. All those cables


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 
  OMG. It's as red as the Devil himself and he has made an appearance on your WA22!


----------



## Wapiti

Glenn, do you offer a 6SN7 to 7N7 adapter?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG. It's as red as the Devil himself and he has made an appearance on your WA22!


 


  I really like the red wires, it make my WA22 looks like Frankenstein's amp.
   
  Initial impression is very positive, I need to give it a serious listening session after I give it at least 25 hours of good old cooking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 


  She's drop dead gorgeous in this year's Fall Collection!


----------



## Silent One

In Retrospect --
   
  Looking back, if jc9394 had not been one of our own here in the 'Unite' thread, those 6F8G's would have been mine!


----------



## jc9394

Very true, gotta love it. We are all one big happy family.  One of the NU is bad but the seller send me a replacement.
   
  I'm just trying to save you some money.  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> In Retrospect --
> 
> Looking back, if jc9394 had not been one of our own here in the 'Unite' thread, those 6F8G's would have been mine!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Can I have my wires touch the tube glass on the back to tuck them further back, or should the wires never touch the glass?


 


  No harm, no foul. I'm really diggin' the tailored pig-tail look Clayton's '596' has. My own wires are too short to bring together. Still satisfied, though...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Very true, gotta love it. We are all one big happy family.  One of the NU is bad but the seller send me a replacement.
> 
> I'm just trying to save you some money.


 







  Hilarious! I would have enjoyed contacting the seller for a replacement, had I gotten my Champagne holding, Ice-cream serving grubby lil' hands on them in the first place!
   
  As fate would have it, JC, I was waiting for the clock to wind down some more before gettin' in there. And thought I'd peruse the thread while I wait because I had just woken up. When I read your message (plea?), I thought it best to respect your wishes. There'll be other tubes - I enjoy the relations here.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Glenn, do you offer a 6SN7 to 7N7 adapter?


 

 Yes I have 7N7 / 7AF7 to 6SN7 adapters send me a PM


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Can I have my wires touch the tube glass on the back to tuck them further back, or should the wires never touch the glass?


 


 You can have them touch the glass the wire can handle high temp


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody found any cans besides the 600 ohm beyers and the hd650s match well with the wa3?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody found any cans besides the 600 ohm beyers and the hd650s match well with the wa3?


 


  i believe any high impedance headphone will work well with it as well as some of the low hard-to-drive impedance headphones like k 701's. amazingly, the k701s require more power to drive off my wa6 than my hd 650, just as hard to drive as my 600 ohm beeyrs.


----------



## Rawrbington

how are the 650s out of your woo compared to the 990s?
  which has more detail, bass, mids treble?
   
  the 650 might be next.  or maybe denon 2000.  the hold up on the denon is that the low impedance might not sound well with my wa3.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how are the 650s out of your woo compared to the 990s?
> which has more detail, bass, mids treble?
> 
> the 650 might be next.  or maybe denon 2000.  the hold up on the denon is that the low impedance might not sound well with my wa3.


 


  detail, the beyers.
   
  bass, both but the beyers have a tad bit more than hd 650, however, its less textured and slightly muddier. its still very good clean bass tho.
   
  mids, definitely hd 650, the beyers are very slightly recessed
   
  treble, umm the hd 650 is smooth and slightly rolled off, the beyers are brighter but still smooth and never harsh
   
  they're both good, i tend to enjoy the hd 650s more.
   
   
  been wantng to try out the denon, but i have too many headphones right now lol.


----------



## Rawrbington

ive still been playing around with the wa3 and my beyers,
   
  the 770pro 80s do pretty well out of it.  but the charts i've seen show their impedance closer to 125 than 80.
  the 990/600s are great of course.
   
  but the 32 ohm 770s well, they get pretty messy at moderate volume. 
   
  the wa6 probably just has so much more juice that it deals with the lower cans a lot better.
   
  but i still can't get over the details and just smoothness out of it


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think its NOS.
> i didn't buy the tube it just came with the amp but its got a sticker on the box that says it was tested on 10/19/11 by a recording supply store.
> 
> maybe i need to break it in.
> ...


 

 Many people feel the 5998 is a superior version of the 6AS7, and it is also higher gain which will increase your output power somewhat.  That might solve your headroom problem without having to upgrade so soon.  The gain on a 5998 is 5.5 where as with the 6as7 it is only 2 so definitely some difference there.
   
  Generally speaking the 2 is better suited to high impedance cans like your wa3 because it is OTL, but an OTL amp can drive low impedance cans just fine sometimes especially if the amp has good output in general.  If you are mostly or exclusively using low impedance phones the 6SE is probably the way to go, plus you have lots of interesting driver tube options out there both from the drop-in compatible tubes and via adapters. You also don't have to worry about the cost of the additional power output tubes, though this can also be a con depending upon how much you end up liking tube rolling.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i believe any high impedance headphone will work well with it as well as some of the low hard-to-drive impedance headphones like k 701's. amazingly, the k701s require more power to drive off my wa6 than my hd 650, just as hard to drive as my 600 ohm beeyrs.


 


  Doesn't seem like it in the beginning, the but the K701 is notoriously power hungry.  I honestly feel my WA6 doesn't even open them up fully.  That's always been the big gripe about them, that you have to spend at least 5x what you paid for them on the amp to actually make them sing.


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks for the info Xcalibur.
  i rolled in the 5998 earlier.  i like it.  it does seem a little beefier.
  im gonna try and break in that 6AS7 sometime.  but it was def the problem cause the 6080 and 5998 are nice and silent.
  would you recommend the wa6 as a step up in a few months?  i have a mixed bag of high and low impedance cans.  and would love 1 amp to play them all well. including something like a possible LCD2 or T1 in the future
  or should i save for the 6se?
  i'd rather not spend a whole G on just the amp.
  but that doesn't mean i won't lol.  i mean just a few years ago i didn't want the m50s because they were 125$.  and now here i am


----------



## mikemalter

More problems with subscription notification today.  Sent an email to the "help-desk" and they are looking into it.  All subscriptions from head-fi have stopped, and won't go to any email account I provide.  Limits my participation here a bit.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Doesn't seem like it in the beginning, the but the K701 is notoriously power hungry.  I honestly feel my WA6 doesn't even open them up fully.  That's always been the big gripe about them, that you have to spend at least 5x what you paid for them on the amp to actually make them sing.


 

 my WA6SE works perfectly with them and as i mentioned in a few other threads, has great synergy with the WA6SE. the only problem being that the volume has to almost be at noon to drive them well.
   
  the WA6SE certainly has more than enough juice to drive them, i was just  shocked that it required so much juice to power them. im sure your WA6 works well  with them, they certainly need alot of power though.


----------



## mikemalter

Did a real nice trade with dminches.  I traded my ECC-32 Mullards for several sets of tubes:

 RCA 5962
 Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boys
 Sylvania 6SN7 (Not Bad Boys)
 Ken Rad 6SN7GT
   
  It was a nice trade for me as I only had two pairs of drivers, and now I have more to get a better understanding of the different flavors that are possible.  I really liked the Bad Boys as they seemed to me to be very much like the TungSol BGRP.  I'm listening to the Ken Rad right now, and they seem smoother to my ear than the Bad Boys and I think I am liking them the best so far.  I running with a pair of GEC 6AS7G's and a 596.  
   
  I think I'll run through the new drivers again with the EML.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thanks for the info Xcalibur.
> i rolled in the 5998 earlier.  i like it.  it does seem a little beefier.
> im gonna try and break in that 6AS7 sometime.  but it was def the problem cause the 6080 and 5998 are nice and silent.
> would you recommend the wa6 as a step up in a few months?  i have a mixed bag of high and low impedance cans.  and would love 1 amp to play them all well. including something like a possible LCD2 or T1 in the future
> ...


 


  I think the added power and flexibility would make the 6SE worth it, and I'm saying that as a WA6 owner.  I bought the WA6 as my "Intro" to tubes much like you've done with the 3..... with the long term plan being going to the WA22.  In the process I picked up more tube knowledge that I ever thought I would, and I still consider myself a greenhorn at it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The WA22 will happen....... someday.  I never let go of things I've fixated on, but an unexpected stop in the road might postpone that from happening even longer than I originally thought.  In the meantime I've had a LOT of good times listening to and tube rolling my WA6.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You'll be fine. 24/192kHz files can be the exception. But most consumer components do 24/96Khz better most of the time. And the 'Majors' (Studios/Record Labels) moved a few years ago to archive their masters in 24/96kHz. Yes, they have masters at other resolutions, but for the most part...


 

 To follow up on this: the 24/96 HDTracks version of _Waltz for Debby_ sounds quite good. A glass of red, a snowy evening and some toe-tappin' tracks on my LCD-2.2... not bad.
   
  Moved on to Scriabin's _The Poem of Ecstasy_, also from HDTracks (the Everest 35mm recording). Hmm... not sure this fits my mood or the LCD-2s.


----------



## Draygonn

jc9394 said:


>



Perfect Halloween pic. Looks like those tubes are filled with blood. :veryevil:




macedonianhero said:


> Looks like he's taking good care of my WA2.



Might be the other way around. This WA2 is amazing. Worth every penny for both the performance and the looks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> To follow up on this: the 24/96 HDTracks version of _Waltz for Debby_ sounds quite good. A glass of red, a snowy evening and some toe-tappin' tracks on my LCD-2.2... not bad.
> 
> Moved on to Scriabin's _The Poem of Ecstasy_, also from HDTracks (the Everest 35mm recording). Hmm... not sure this fits my mood or the LCD-2s.


 


  I would love to get the HDT version of "Waltz for Debby!" I've long had the CD. But each time I save up for small purchases system related, it takes a lot of thought for me to make double & triple purchases, depending on how badly I want a another resolution of the same stuff. And I do. But I'm also "Yobless!" If I had the funds, I'd have gotten it without thought long time ago... along with some candles and French bubbly.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Did a real nice trade with dminches.  I traded my ECC-32 Mullards for several sets of tubes:
> 
> RCA 5962
> Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boys
> ...


 


  Ooooh, we're going with the venerable Red Base, yeah? Please let me know how those RCA's sound...


----------



## Silent One

Tuesday night in review: 
   
  Purchased a new Cat for $29. Played with it at home for a few hours. End of the night, left it on the front porch... _without milk! _So, whom to call, Animal Control or the S.P.C.A.?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now looking to re-install the previous Cat back in my life. I upgraded to Lion OS X for the Mac and didn't care for it much! Amarra became very glitchy (known issues). But the sound is what I really found off-putting.
   
  Although, it returned a slightly more open, wider and detailed sound during playback, it seemed to lack energy and luster. No longer sounding musical or magical. When a song has the 2M's, you'll want to move your feet, tap your toes and dance to it no matter how bad the medium, no matter how low the resolution. You'll know these qualities in a song when you hear it! I had the 2M's until last night - they are now gon' baby, gon'!!! 
   
  Further, under Lion, playback with Amarra sounds like someone chose for me a DSP setting that doesn't compliment my gear. I could probably EQ my way out of this bag. But I shouldn't have to put forth such effort for corrections like this. I could even succeed but then, WHY? I've better things to do like say, enjoy the music! Being under-the-hood is both fun & fine when you want it to be, not when you could be doing something more pleasurable.
   
  Oh, and the mighty USAF-596?? Just an ordinary sounding tube under the new operating system. Rather than partition my small Solid State Drive, I'll likely just throw the Cat out with the bath water (put it on a disk for future use)!!! And re-install Snow Leopard later tonight.
   
  However, it's not to say Lion doesn't render good audio playback. There's a lot of variables and configurations - it simply didn't add anything to my system at this time. Of course, we all know when a component, accessory or tweak changes, then...


----------



## jc9394

Don't say I didn't warn you about the new cat.  I have to install I fresh to get all the apps I need to working properly, the upgrade cause me so much issues and I did the upgrade while I was on a trip.  Lesson learned, never upgrade anyhthing while on a trip.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Doesn't seem like it in the beginning, the but the K701 is notoriously power hungry.  I honestly feel my WA6 doesn't even open them up fully.  That's always been the big gripe about them, that you have to spend at least 5x what you paid for them on the amp to actually make them sing.


 

 Odd.  At 105 dB/mW  sensitivity and 82 ohms they should be easy to drive.  They are a tad more sensitive than the HD 650.


----------



## jc9394

WA22 with LCD-2 owners, you have to try this combo.  TS7236, NU6F8G, and USAF596.  It is so good that I only got 3 hours of sleep last night


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WA22 with LCD-2 owners, you have to try this combo.  TS7236, NU6F8G, and USAF596.  It is so good that I only got 3 hours of sleep last night


 

  What a nice Frankenstein combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also, the AWS B22 looks awesome too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> What a nice Frankenstein combo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  thanks, it is definitely not wife approve.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Did a real nice trade with dminches.  I traded my ECC-32 Mullards for several sets of tubes:
> 
> RCA 5962
> Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boys
> ...


 

 Nice Mike. Based on street values i think it is a fair trade. You should try the Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brwon Base and Chrome Top. I really like them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Don't say I didn't warn you about the new cat.  I have to install I fresh to get all the apps I need to working properly, the upgrade cause me so much issues and I did the upgrade while I was on a trip.  Lesson learned, never upgrade anyhthing while on a trip.


 


  Murphy's Law --
   
  For me, Lion is flawless with every application thrown at it except audio... and Mac is a music server!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Need to find a clever work-a-round this evening.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WA22 with LCD-2 owners, you have to try this combo.  TS7236, NU6F8G, and USAF596.  It is so good that I only got 3 hours of sleep last night


 


  Your WOO continues to WOW.


----------



## Silent One

Stark contrast --
   
  Could me and jc9694's night have been anymore different?! Starting out, we had a lot in common. Fired up our Woo Audio amps. Featuring the USAF-596. On the same night. And both of us only got 3 hours of sleep. BUT, his coming from musical enjoyment and mine from Cat Scratch Fever.
   
  I need to find a way to cleanse the palate...


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I need to find a way to cleanse the palate...


 

 Switch to a PC? <ducking>
   
  Sorry to hear of your upgrade issues.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Switch to a PC? <ducking>
> 
> Sorry to hear of your upgrade issues.


 







  Man, you're cold! Actually, I do have a kicked-up Windows music server (PC) using my E-MU 0404 USB (ASIO>192 kHz) when I'm in the mood for "different." But the Mac configuration even sounds better when I'm running identical set ups via Boot Camp using the E-MU for comparisons. 
   
  Unix just goes about its business and speaks in a more eloquent way than Mr. Softie (MSFT) - Windows 7-Vista-XP.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, window's music servers seem a little problematic.


----------



## Silent One

A dual boot install should be the answer. But the question becomes "Will I have a working (trouble free) version of Snow Leopard?" The Lion install could have made things unworkable. I think it would have been wiser to install dual boot in the beginning, so I could always return if I wanted to. Let's see what happens. 'Cause at this writing, I'm not really interested in listening to the new install. For someone who loves music, that's an indictment!
   
  I am, however, happy for those who did find happiness with their own transition to Lion.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yeah, window's music servers seem a little problematic.


 


  Isn't the answer to making bad purchases simply more shopping? Those Linux based options (Sonore; Bryston) are looking better already...


----------



## Wapiti

I have a Linux based server, but know others who have had wonderful success with running the Squeezebox Server on Windows.  It also works well on a Mac.


----------



## jc9394

PerfectWave with NAS is very good to me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I have a Linux based server, but know others who have had wonderful success with running the Squeezebox Server on Windows.  It also works well on a Mac.


 


  Last year, when the tea tins filled up with cash to buy my first Mac, I couldn't run fast enough! I'm not keen on Windows operating style; operating system. When I made the decision to buy the Woo, I wanted better (human nature)! "H e l l o  Mac!"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The Mac makes for a great music server and a great pairing with my _WA 6 Special Edition._


----------



## Wapiti

I'm not a fan of Apple's small walled gardens, both software and architecture.  But I appreciate others derive comfort from this. 
   
  It is another of those preferences silly to argue about.


----------



## runningman1960

SilentOne, I'm within probably a few hours of buying a WA6 SE, and I'm wondering what your opinion of the amp is. I currently have a solid state amp and I know the wa6se isn't really tubey sounding compared to the wa2, but wondering if you have experience with other amps and how the wa6se sounds in comparison. (ie. semi warm, big bass impact, bigger sound stage, etc.) I just want to make sure I'm making the right purchase.  Thanks


----------



## runningman1960

Anyone?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





runningman1960 said:


> SilentOne, I'm within probably a few hours of buying a WA6 SE, and I'm wondering what your opinion of the amp is. I currently have a solid state amp and I know the wa6se isn't really tubey sounding compared to the wa2, but wondering if you have experience with other amps and how the wa6se sounds in comparison. (ie. semi warm, big bass impact, bigger sound stage, etc.) I just want to make sure I'm making the right purchase.  Thanks


 


  My honest opinion of the WA6SE? You're a bit late, I was practically giving it away last month. But the purchase of the USAF-596 changed everything! And now? We be right nice and happy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Last year when I visited Clayton (what amp doesn't he have?), I only heard his WA2 being used as a pre-amp. I'm sure it's a fine amp. But I feel that way about the 6 SE.
   
  Tough decision to make. But easier made if you think an OTL amp will fit your needs with the cans you have and are likely to buy. Shoot MacedonianHero a quick PM! He could be of greater help.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





runningman1960 said:


> SilentOne, I'm within probably a few hours of buying a WA6 SE, and I'm wondering what your opinion of the amp is. I currently have a solid state amp and I know the wa6se isn't really tubey sounding compared to the wa2, but wondering if you have experience with other amps and how the wa6se sounds in comparison. (ie. semi warm, big bass impact, bigger sound stage, etc.) I just want to make sure I'm making the right purchase.  Thanks


 


  I saw in your other thread that you're coming from a KICAS Caliente... if you like that sound signature but want something more powerful and versatile, then the WA6SE would be a nice choice. You'll notice bass that's improved in both quantity and control, as well as better soundstage and imaging. The WA6SE vs. WA2 thing just comes down to a matter of preference... the 6 is more dynamic, while the 2 is more euphonic (to use Jack Woo's term). Both work great with a wide range of cans. I liked Grados and Denons slightly more on the 6, and Beyers and my LCD-2 better on the 2, but none of them were found to be incompatible with either amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I'm not a fan of Apple's small walled gardens, both software and architecture.  But I appreciate others derive comfort from this.
> 
> It is another of those preferences silly to argue about.


 

 Sometimes, I take issues with the walled gardens as well. Once I'm able to accomplish what I want to do (circumventing) then it becomes moot... until the next round.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I saw in your other thread that you're coming from a KICAS Caliente... if you like that sound signature but want something more powerful and versatile, then the WA6SE would be a nice choice. You'll notice bass that's improved in both quantity and control, as well as better soundstage and imaging. The WA6SE vs. WA2 thing just comes down to a matter of preference... the 6 is more dynamic, while the 2 is more euphonic (to use Jack Woo's term). Both work great with a wide range of cans. I liked Grados and Denons slightly more on the 6, and Beyers and my LCD-2 better on the 2, but none of them were found to be incompatible with either amp.


 


  Olias of Sunhillow, dons snow shoes... steps out and steps in to save day... they're dancing in the streets at the 'Unite' thread!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sometimes, I take issues with the walled gardens as well. Once I'm able to accomplish what I want to do (circumventing) then it becomes moot... until the next round.


 


  I've never understood the Walled Garden comments about Apple.  Maybe someone can give me a brief explanation.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Olias of Sunhillow, dons snow shoes... steps out and steps in to save day... they're dancing in the streets at the 'Unite' thread!


 

 Another 11 inches of snow last night, my friend... and winter (or, as I like to call it, "Woo Season") is still 7 weeks away!


----------



## Silent One

As a hardware and software vendor, Apple restricts what runs (apps) and where (programs).


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Odd.  At 105 dB/mW  sensitivity and 82 ohms they should be easy to drive.  They are a tad more sensitive than the HD 650.


 


  I agree it makes no sense on paper.  But I should clarify I don't mean hard to drive in terms of getting volume.  I mean hard to drive in terms of achieving potential (and decent bass, which takes nothing short of witch craft and black magic with this headphone).  I'm pretty darn loud by 12 noon on the volume pot with the WA6, but the tepid dynamics and bass impact is what tells me the phones are not getting the type of current they really want.  It sounds very nice, don't get me wrong.  No shortage of detail, but they have always come off as a little sleepy sounding to me on this amp. The K701 has quite the reputation when it comes to amp demands.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Another 11 inches of snow last night, my friend... and winter (or, as I like to call it, "Woo Season") is still 7 weeks away!


 


  Just the opposite here for me in the desert.  The intense heat of the desert has subsided and now I can go out doors again until June.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Just the opposite here for me in the desert.  The intense heat of the desert has subsided and now I can go out doors again until June.


 

 Yes indeed... a fine time to be in the Sonoran Desert. We'd hoped to make a return trip to Organ Pipe Cactus this winter, but it doesn't appear to be in the cards.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I agree it makes no sense on paper.  But I should clarify I don't mean hard to drive in terms of getting volume.  I mean hard to drive in terms of achieving potential (and decent bass, which takes nothing short of witch craft and black magic with this headphone).  I'm pretty darn loud by 12 noon on the volume pot with the WA6, but the tepid dynamics and bass impact is what tells me the phones are not getting the type of current they really want.  It sounds very nice, don't get me wrong.  No shortage of detail, but they have always come off as a little sleepy sounding to me on this amp. The K701 has quite the reputation when it comes to amp demands.


 

 Intriguing. I particularly appreciate your comments as I just borrowed the K701 from a friend to try them out.  He bought them when the first rave reviews hit.  I briefly tried them then and hated the sound.  Given how many like them I am eager to give them a more fair chance.  I have multiple tube and SS amps so I should have something they will like.


----------



## jc9394

Just noticed there is static noise with the 596, if I touch the wire, it will fade but will return and also goes up with volume.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

Just got my WA6-SE yesterday.  I've listened to it as it is burning in and I must say after twelve hours it is much better than when I first turned it on.  Just noticed some static in the left channel that appeared and disappeared, but came back a few minutes later.  Is this normal to expect from a driver/ power tube (says Sylvania EREU on the side and is my 6DE7 left channel) as it burns in?  I'm switching channels to make sure the noise follows.  This is my first tube amp, so I'm not really sure of what to expect.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





runningman1960 said:


> SilentOne, I'm within probably a few hours of buying a WA6 SE, and I'm wondering what your opinion of the amp is. I currently have a solid state amp and I know the wa6se isn't really tubey sounding compared to the wa2, but wondering if you have experience with other amps and how the wa6se sounds in comparison. (ie. semi warm, big bass impact, bigger sound stage, etc.) I just want to make sure I'm making the right purchase.  Thanks


 


  What are your prime headphones that you want to power?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Just got my WA6-SE yesterday.  I've listened to it as it is burning in and I must say after twelve hours it is much better than when I first turned it on.  Just noticed some static in the left channel that appeared and disappeared, but came back a few minutes later.  Is this normal to expect from a driver/ power tube (says Sylvania EREU on the side and is my 6DE7 left channel) as it burns in?  I'm switching channels to make sure the noise follows.  This is my first tube amp, so I'm not really sure of what to expect.


 

 First, congratulations on a fine build!
   
  This is not normal but can and does happen. Did you swap tubes from L>R or R>L to see if the static follows? Also, you'll wanna isolate the amp from its source to determine the origin of static.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Just noticed some static in the left channel that appeared and disappeared, but came back a few minutes later.  Is this normal to expect from a driver/ power tube (says Sylvania EREU on the side and is my 6DE7 left channel) as it burns in?  I'm switching channels to make sure the noise follows..


 

 Sometimes a tube needs to burn-in.  Also a less than perfect connection can cause noise.  Try cleaning the tube pins.  A bit of fine sandpaper and quick wipe with alcohol can perform wonders.
   
  While tempting, don't tap a tube to listen to it while it is installed and hot.  This is hard on them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just noticed there is static noise with the 596, if I touch the wire, it will fade but will return and also goes up with volume.


 


  Perhaps positioning the wires to be further away from the transformers would help?  I know the wires for 6F8G adapters can pick up hum when too close to the rectifier, but in this case the tube in question IS the rectifier so other parts of the power supply would be most suspect.


----------



## Rawrbington

this wa3 is my first tube amp and ive got a quick tube and tube amp care question. 
  if i am going to listen to it over a 6 hour period off and on, say for 3 hours or so then take a break for an hour, and then listen to it again for an hour or two, should i turn it off, or leave it on?
   
  does it make a difference either way really or is it a wash?


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You only get to do what they want you to do because you are using their hardware and software.  The pick the standards they want to support and you are limited by it.  For example, you can only play 44/16 (or 48/16) rez files on an iPod, however most music software out there supports resolutions up to 192/24.  You can only use the apple file format, not any of the others.  So stuff like that is why people call it a walled garden.  Once you get in, you can only go where they allow you to go.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> this wa3 is my first tube amp and ive got a quick tube and tube amp care question.
> if i am going to listen to it over a 6 hour period off and on, say for 3 hours or so then take a break for an hour, and then listen to it again for an hour or two, should i turn it off, or leave it on?
> 
> does it make a difference either way really or is it a wash?


 

 In my opinion, you'll enjoy longevity with both either way. But would need to address two questions first: Do you need to abandon the amp during the suggested break (never abandon your tube amp while powered up)?  And what's your position on energy conservation (it's a Class A amp)?
   
  No, not trying to change other's ways, but merely putting it out for thought.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You only get to do what they want you to do because you are using their hardware and software.  The pick the standards they want to support and you are limited by it.  For example, you can only play 44/16 (or 48/16) rez files on an iPod, however most music software out there supports resolutions up to 192/24.  You can only use the apple file format, not any of the others.  So stuff like that is why people call it a walled garden.  Once you get in, you can only go where they allow you to go.


 

 See I wouldn't know that since I've never used an iPod.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> See I wouldn't know that since I've never used an iPod.


 

 Walled Garden --
   
  (_Information in this post was voluntarily removed by Silent One, as it was not up to the standards, practices and spirit found in this thread_.)


----------



## spagetka

Probably you have a problem with electricity.
  
  Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Just got my WA6-SE yesterday.  I've listened to it as it is burning in and I must say after twelve hours it is much better than when I first turned it on.  Just noticed some static in the left channel that appeared and disappeared, but came back a few minutes later.  Is this normal to expect from a driver/ power tube (says Sylvania EREU on the side and is my 6DE7 left channel) as it burns in?  I'm switching channels to make sure the noise follows.  This is my first tube amp, so I'm not really sure of what to expect.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I have a Linux based server, but know others who have had wonderful success with running the Squeezebox Server on Windows.  It also works well on a Mac.


 
  +1. I have SqueezeBox server running on my DIY Widows 7 pro box. I'm streaming flac music files and it's fast as fast can be.


----------



## Silent One

LOST:  Big white 16 month old cat. Silver engraved collar reads "Mac OS X." Fun & playful. Answers to the name "Snow Leopard."
   
   
  My overnight session was mainly spent troubleshooting, sampling and trying new things (only to put everything back). To conclude the session, I played Thelonious Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" in its entirety... simply stunning! My entire room is crackling with electricity. I made friends again with Snow Leopard, Amarra and the big bad '596' high-sidin' atop my Woo, This track swings! If you ain't heard it before, or not in a very long time, no better time to do so than Thursday.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Will highlight some of the differences between OS's over the weekend that my Woo was able to flush out.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Perhaps positioning the wires to be further away from the transformers would help?  I know the wires for 6F8G adapters can pick up hum when too close to the rectifier, but in this case the tube in question IS the rectifier so other parts of the power supply would be most suspect.


 


   
  That is what I think too but there isn't room to move the wire, I will try my other 596 tonight.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

Quote: 





silent one said:


> LOST:  Big white 16 month old cat. Silver engraved collar reads "Mac OS X." Fun & playful. Answers to the name "Snow Leopard."
> 
> 
> My overnight session was mainly spent troubleshooting, sampling and trying new things (only to put everything back). To conclude the session, I played Thelonious Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" in its entirety... simply stunning! My entire room is crackling with electricity. I made friends again with Snow Leopard, Amarra and the big bad '596' high-sidin' atop my Woo, This track swings! If you ain't heard it before, or not in a very long time, no better time to do so than Thursday.
> ...


 

  Forgive me for being naive, but how can an OS change the difference in sound quality?  Is this only an Apple issue (I run Windows 7)?
   
   
   
  And in regards to my previous inquiry regarding a static sound, it hasn't returned since I swapped tubes, so thank you everyone for your suggestions, I'll try to clean the pins if it happens again.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Perhaps positioning the wires to be further away from the transformers would help?  I know the wires for 6F8G adapters can pick up hum when too close to the rectifier, but in this case the tube in question IS the rectifier so other parts of the power supply would be most suspect.


 


   I had a similar probelm with my 6F8G to 6SN7 adaptes from Woo. The wire is very thin and not shielded. In my WA5-LE ther are very close to the 300B tubes and they were inducting noise. I wrap the wires in one layer of aluminim foil and the problem was resolved.
  I let Jack know about the issue then I talked to him at RMAF.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I had a similar probelm with my 6F8G to 6SN7 adaptes from Woo. The wire is very thin and not shielded. In my WA5-LE ther are very close to the 300B tubes and they were inducting noise. I wrap the wires in one layer of aluminim foil and the problem was resolved.
> I let Jack know about the issue then I talked to him at RMAF.


 


  Good to know, I will try the aluminum foil trick on both adapters.  My other 596 has the same static noise.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> if i am going to listen to it over a 6 hour period off and on, say for 3 hours or so then take a break for an hour, and then listen to it again for an hour or two, should i turn it off, or leave it on?


 

 It's pretty much a wash.  The greatest wear sustained by electronics is powering on and off, this is a bit greater with tubes.  It is hard on tube equipment to power cycle without sufficient cool down, but an hour is enough.  If I remained around I would leave it on.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> My overnight session was mainly spent troubleshooting, sampling and trying new things (only to put everything back).


 

 I am sorry to hear this remained such a headache for you. 


  Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> And in regards to my previous inquiry regarding a static sound, it hasn't returned since I swapped tubes, so thank you everyone for your suggestions, I'll try to clean the pins if it happens again.


 
   
  Excellent!  It is possible that taking the tubes in out cleaned things up a bit.  Once in a while tubes are squirrely.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In my opinion, you'll enjoy longevity with both either way. But would need to address two questions first: Do you need to abandon the amp during the suggested break (never abandon your tube amp while powered up)?  And what's your position on energy conservation (it's a Class A amp)?
> 
> No, not trying to change other's ways, but merely putting it out for thought.


 

 Good point. When we get the electricity bill the city shows a chart of our electricity use against the average of our neighbors. Between my amps and my desktop computer (which has a 1000w power supply) we are always twice the average. I'm surprised Al Gore hasn't busted down my front door


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Forgive me for being naive, but how can an OS change the difference in sound quality?  Is this only an Apple issue (I run Windows 7)?


 
   
  It doesn't, as long as the programs and OS are properly outputting bit perfect data.  For example, earlier versions of Windows incorporated a software mixer that needed to be bypassed or the sound was compromised (not an issue with 7).
   
  Recording engineers have long accepted that all DAWs sound the same, what matters is the implementation of various plug-ins, etc.  For example, not all EQ or compression sounds the same as they accomplish the job in different ways.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> It doesn't, as long as the programs and OS are properly outputting bit perfect data.  For example, earlier versions of Windows incorporated a software mixer that needed to be bypassed or the sound was compromised (not an issue with 7).
> 
> Recording engineers have long accepted that all DAWs sound the same, what matters is the implementation of various plug-ins, etc.  For example, not all EQ or compression sounds the same as they accomplish the job in different ways.


 


  Actually is a little more complicated on the Cats, going from a hybrid 32/64 bits OS to 64 bits OS does limit some functions of the applications that is not fully supported.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Actually is a little more complicated on the Cats, going from a hybrid 32/64 bits OS to 64 bits OS does limit some functions of the applications that is not fully supported.


 

 Of course, and this causes headaches.  However the OS itself does not sound different.  Once the platform is sending a bit perfect data stream it will sound the same as any other - be it Apple, Windows, or a professional DAW.
   
  As a aside, it is refreshing for Mac owners to honestly address problems with an Apple implementation.  The public face is typically to proclaim that Apple is perfect and only Windows has these issues.  Naturally every OS has its issues.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Good to know, I will try the aluminum foil trick on both adapters.  My other 596 has the same static noise.


 

 John, are you using your 6F8G adapters at the same time? Have you tried different driver tubes (w/o adapters)?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> John, are you using your 6F8G adapters at the same time? Have you tried different driver tubes (w/o adapters)?


 


  Not yet, it will be my next steps.  I will pop in the BGRP tonight.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just noticed there is static noise with the 596, if I touch the wire, it will fade but will return and also goes up with volume.


 
  Twist the pin jacks so the wires are behind the 596 tube as far away from the 6SN7s / 6F8Gs  as possible. It don't matter if they touch the power transformer they get hooked
  directly to the transformer anyway.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Twist the pin jacks so the wires are behind the 596 tube as far away from the 6SN7s / 6F8Gs  as possible. It don't matter if they touch the power transformer they get hooked
> directly to the transformer anyway.


 

 I did, it still have some static.  I will try to swap out the 6F8G tonight but the NU and 596 sounded so good.


----------



## jc9394

GEC 6AS7G round based show up on fleabay but it is pricey...
   
  http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=gec+6as7g&_sacat=See-All-Categories


----------



## musicman59

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





jc9394 said:


> I did, it still have some static.  I will try to swap out the 6F8G tonight but the NU and 596 sounded so good.



I am running my WA5-LE with a pair of TS BGRP 6F8G and the 596. It sounds soooo good!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Twist the pin jacks so the wires are behind the 596 tube as far away from the 6SN7s / 6F8Gs  as possible. It don't matter if they touch the power transformer they get hooked
> directly to the transformer anyway.


 

 My 596 tubes do not have any static--completely silent. I am also using it with your 6SN7/6F8G adapters.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  That is what I'm going to do tonight


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Of course, and this causes headaches.  However the OS itself does not sound different.  Once the platform is sending a bit perfect data stream it will sound the same as any other - be it Apple, Windows, or a professional DAW.
> 
> As a aside, it is refreshing for Mac owners to honestly address problems with an Apple implementation.  The public face is typically to proclaim that Apple is perfect and only Windows has these issues.  Naturally every OS has its issues.


 


  Honestly I've had a Mac since the Mac Plus and I've never had a problem with any software be it third party, any Mac OS install, no compatibility problems with printers, scanners or cameras.   Some of Apples software has actually changed my life's direction, and in doing so alter a bit of my professional paradigm. Take for instance the amazing DAW Garageband.    Before Garageband came along I never considered scoring a TV show open, or a TV feature piece, or TV teases, or TV bumps in to and out from commercials.  But once I clicked on Garageband I was able to do all of that scoring and without even knowing how to play a single instrument except the skin flute.   But GB opened the door for me in less than a week.
   
  Granted I don't use an iPod, an iPhone (I pretty much never use a phone) or an iPad.  But my daughter has them and she never has a problem with any of them.   Maybe there is this "walled garden" people speak of but if I'm inside it I certainly do not feel contained, trapped or deprived.
   
  It's not that I'm an Apple fan boy or anything like that.   But today I was at the hospital for an out patient procedure and there was a toddler sitting next to me.  He had an iPad.  He mom told me he was 3 1/2 years old.  He was in complete command of the iPad.  Using finger gestures to turn pages and move from photo image to photo image.  He used more finger gestures to expand the images.  He even open a few sound/video files that played nursery animation with sound. All of this by himself without any help or confusion.  3 1/2 years old.
   
  Wow I thought.  here I am a guy born a year before the space age began. A year before anything was ever put into space to orbit the earth or soar out of the atmosphere even for a minute, and when I grew up I was lucky to have a portable hand "transistor" radio which had a battery life of about 4 hours. I watched this toddler and I thought where the ****** is this walled garden people moan about?  I don't see it.   I really don't.  What I see is a world of magic. I see a garden of magic, and so does that toddler.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Honestly I've had a Mac since the Mac Plus and I've never had a problem with any software be it third party, any Mac OS install, no compatibility problems with printers, scanners or cameras.   Some of Apples software has actually changed my life's direction, and in doing so alter a bit of my professional paradigm. Take for instance the amazing DAW Garageband.    Before Garageband came along I never considered scoring a TV show open, or a TV feature piece, or TV teases, or TV bumps in to and out from commercials.  But once I clicked on Garageband I was able to do all of that scoring and without even knowing how to play a single instrument except the skin flute.   But GB opened the door for me in less than a week.
> 
> Granted I don't use an iPod, an iPhone (I pretty much never use a phone) or an iPad.  But my daughter has them and she never has a problem with any of them.   Maybe there is this "walled garden" people speak of but if I'm inside it I certainly do not feel contained, trapped or deprived.
> 
> ...


 
  A transistor radio! I remember my first one. It came in a black leather case with holes in it for the speakers and an antenna that got bent on the very first day I owned it. I also remember buying replacement vacuum tubes for my dad's stereo so that I could play the Beatles White Album. And The Doors. My very first vinyl LP--ever! And in monoaural too. Ah, time files when you're having fun.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Honestly I've had a Mac since the Mac Plus and I've never had a problem with any software be it third party, any Mac OS install, no compatibility problems with printers, scanners or cameras.   Some of Apples software has actually changed my life's direction, and in doing so alter a bit of my professional paradigm. Take for instance the amazing DAW Garageband.    Before Garageband came along I never considered scoring a TV show open, or a TV feature piece, or TV teases, or TV bumps in to and out from commercials.  But once I clicked on Garageband I was able to do all of that scoring and without even knowing how to play a single instrument except the skin flute.   But GB opened the door for me in less than a week.
> 
> Granted I don't use an iPod, an iPhone (I pretty much never use a phone) or an iPad.  But my daughter has them and she never has a problem with any of them.   Maybe there is this "walled garden" people speak of but if I'm inside it I certainly do not feel contained, trapped or deprived.
> 
> ...


 


  WarriroAnt, great to see you're upright... and upstanding here in this thread.





   
  Also, I'd like to mention (clarify) that my Lion comments may have been misconstrued (not by you, I'm just taking the opportunity to express while I'm at it). Actually, I am only having problems with one music player (Amarra) with the new OS. Previous players such as Pure Music and Audirvana & Audirvana Plus show no ills with Lion. I did state Amarra was suffering from known issues, so no surprises. As Sonic Studios themselves suggested holding off on the immediate migration.
   
  From downloading Lion to getting it signed, sealed and delivered took about one hour without a hitch in the giddy up!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sorry jc9394, no issues with any of my programs outside Amarra.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My 596 tubes do not have any static--completely silent. I am also using it with your 6SN7/6F8G adapters.


 

 +2
   
  My USAF-596 is completely silent along side my 6SN7/6DE7 adapters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am running my WA5-LE with a pair of TS BGRP 6F8G and the 596. It sounds soooo good!


 








 nuthin' personal, musicman59. My envy is from good ol' fashion human nature.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Woones envy?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Good point. When we get the electricity bill the city shows a chart of our electricity use against the average of our neighbors. Between my amps and my desktop computer (which has a 1000w power supply) we are always twice the average. I'm surprised Al Gore hasn't busted down my front door


 


  At one time, I had always considered my monthly SCE bills to be quite normal. Then one year, I sold off a lot of gear (wanting to start over) and gave away a lot of stuff. Many of these electronics were always powered up ( sounded better this way). The following two months I thought SCE was making errors - utility bills so small it HAD to be a mistake!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Some new users of Class-A Vacuum Tube amps have no idea how greedy they can be. The European Union sees Class-A amps as wasteful; have moved to restrict them at some point in the near future. Uncertain how far officials have taken this initiative.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Woones envy?


----------



## mikemalter

Well, looks like my subscription email notifications are working again.  It would be nice if someone could tell me what was going on.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Forgive me for being naive, but how can an OS change the difference in sound quality?  Is this only an Apple issue (I run Windows 7)?
> 
> 
> 
> And in regards to my previous inquiry regarding a static sound, it hasn't returned since I swapped tubes, so thank you everyone for your suggestions, I'll try to clean the pins if it happens again.


 
   
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> It doesn't, as long as the programs and OS are properly outputting bit perfect data.  For example, earlier versions of Windows incorporated a software mixer that needed to be bypassed or the sound was compromised (not an issue with 7).
> 
> Recording engineers have long accepted that all DAWs sound the same, what matters is the implementation of various plug-ins, etc.  For example, not all EQ or compression sounds the same as they accomplish the job in different ways.


 


  Granted, I'm expressing my opinion only, but it (the OS) can change the difference in sound quality. While remaining bit perfect... here's how! But first, I generally agree with everything you said. But, I know from experience that what "Should" and what actually "Is" are alive and well in the real world. This is because of what we don't yet know in the electronics world, not what we already know. The OS itself doesn't have a sound. It's behavior can influence what we hear.
   
  You're correct to express how programs and plug-ins go about doing there jobs. But further, the computer has its own set of house keeping chores it performs for the OS, not audio stream related. There's both stuff going on the foreground and background. And not every service or process can be turned off (the more the better).
   
  Using iTunes (known to be bit-perfect) or a music player that's bit-perfect, can sound different in 32 bit than 64 bit kernel & extensions, using the same OS. This is because the audio drivers are superior in Mac's 64-bit mode. Yet, iTunes in 32 bit mode can output bit perfect. Also, a bit-perfect output can sound different coming from an internal SSD than a HDD. And then there's the external environment. But that makes for another conversation. 
   
  But returning to this one, "Theoretically," all bit-perfectly outputted music players "Should" sound the same. But do they? The answer continues to surprise...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Well, looks like my subscription email notifications are working again.  It would be nice if someone could tell me what was going on.


 


  Besides all the chat about the USAF-596? Nothing, really!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before your notifications stopped working, I couldn't afford the WA234, Stax 009, Liquid Fire or LCD-3. Now that you're back, still can't afford 'em!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did, it still have some static.  I will try to swap out the 6F8G tonight but the NU and 596 sounded so good.


 


  It is unfortunate that you have experienced some static with your National Union 6F8G tubes. I never fall in love with a stock. Or a tube. My only concern is if it's right for my portfolio. The NU's represent such an investment that's right for me. If, for any reason you decide to part with them...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> +1. I have SqueezeBox server running on my DIY Widows 7 pro box. I'm streaming flac music files and it's fast as fast can be.


 

 +1
   
  I have run Squeezecenter on a windows home server and a dedicated Win7 x64 PC and both have worked great with hi res files.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I had a similar probelm with my 6F8G to 6SN7 adaptes from Woo. The wire is very thin and not shielded. In my WA5-LE ther are very close to the 300B tubes and they were inducting noise. I wrap the wires in one layer of aluminim foil and the problem was resolved.
> I let Jack know about the issue then I talked to him at RMAF.


 







   Clever! Photos? Since noise can come out of thin air at any time, maybe I should move proactively...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It is unfortunate that you have experienced some static with your National Union 6F8G tubes. I never fall in love with a stock. Or a tube. My only concern is if it's right for my portfolio. The NU's represent such an investment that's right for me. If, for any reason you decide to part with them...


 

 Once I get my hands on the Macroni one, you will heard from me.  So far, it is torn between the TS or NU on the 6F8G.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Once I get my hands on the Macroni one, you will heard from me.  So far, it is torn between the TS or NU on the 6F8G.


 

 You're undecided between staying with the NU or going with TS? Or are you saying you find the Macroni to be in between the TS & NU?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're undecided between staying with the NU or going with TS? Or are you saying you find the Macroni to be in between the TS & NU?


 


   
  I have both TS and NU, I can't decide which one is better.  They are certainly better than the Slyvania I have, it will go to chopping block soon.  I'm still searching for a Macroni one, Danny (OP) said it is the best 6F8G he heard.
   
  Static noise, swap out the NU with BGRP and it is dead silent.  I will try the foil trick tomorrow.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I meant with the email SNAFU, but it was good to know all was well here.  Someday you'll be rolling in clover!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did, it still have some static.  I will try to swap out the 6F8G tonight but the NU and 596 sounded so good.


 


 For the rectifier tube to make static is unlikely I would suspect the NU 6F8s I have had many of these noisy with static try some Tung-Sol 6F8Gs if you have them
  or go back to 6SN7s to test.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> For the rectifier tube to make static is unlikely I would suspect the NU 6F8s I have had many of these noisy with static try some Tung-Sol 6F8Gs if you have them
> or go back to 6SN7s to test.


 


   
  Went back to BGRP, dead quiet.  I will try the TS and/Sylvania tomorrow, don't want to cycle the amp too often.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I meant with the email SNAFU, but it was good to know all was well here.  Someday you'll be rolling in clover!


 


  Hope you get answers to help you determine if there are issues still looming inside or outside your firewall or head-fi glitch. Email and notifications were fine on this end.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Went back to BGRP, dead quiet.  I will try the TS and/Sylvania tomorrow, don't want to cycle the amp too often.


 


 I have 6 new NU 6F8Gs here that are noisy with static but if you find a good pair they sound really good maybe better then the TS BGRP


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It is a board thing.  I changed my email account to gmail and the notices still did not get there.  Then later today, they started to flood my gmail account and personal email account at the same time.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have 6 new NU 6F8Gs here that are noisy with static but if you find a good pair they sound really good maybe better then the TS BGRP


 


   
  The static is there but not noticeable at all when music is playing, even low volume passage on classical is not noticeable.  Probably I only turn on 3-4 clicks on the volume, it is more noticeable when I turn to 12-2 o'clock when no music is playing.  The odd thing is, if I turn it all the way up, it s dead quiet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I have 6 new NU 6F8Gs here that are noisy with static but if you find a good pair they sound really good maybe better then the TS BGRP


 


  Are those 6 NU's doomed to forever be noisy with static? Or for a time? And could the aluminum foil hack work? Obviously, I have some interest...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are those 6 NU's doomed to forever be noisy with static? Or for a time? And could the aluminum foil hack work? Obviously, I have some interest...


 


   
  The one I have s dead quiet with all othe rectifier, only noisy with 596.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote:  





> . . . is this walled garden people moan about?  I don't see it.   I really don't.  What I see is a world of magic.


 

 I don't understand why your long pro-Apple post was inspired by my comment "the OS itself does not sound different."  
   
  As to the walled garden, as long as the garden's denizens are happy they should remain there, no reason to leave.  For me, owning a Mac is like buying a car allowed on only 5% of the world's roads, with a strict speed limiter - and you need to take it to a dealer to add washer fluid.  No moaning.  It's just not for me. 
   
  Then again I teach people how to drive high performance cars fast on roadrace tracks and find canyon racing my Ducati 1098S a reasonable pursuit.
   
  YMMV


----------



## Rawrbington

does the WA2 have enough juice to power lower impedance cans like the LCD2 or denons?
   
  i like its musicality that i see described over what i read about the wa6se, but the 6se just has so much more power.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Granted, I'm expressing my opinion only, but it (the OS) can change the difference in sound quality. While remaining bit perfect... here's how! But first, I generally agree with everything you said. . . . The OS itself doesn't have a sound. It's behavior can influence what we hear.
> 
> . . .
> 
> Using iTunes (known to be bit-perfect) or a music player that's bit-perfect, can sound different in 32 bit than 64 bit kernel & extensions, using the same OS. This is because the audio drivers are superior in Mac's 64-bit mode.


 
   
  We are pretty much saying the same thing.   
   
  Interesting to learn of this Mac quirk.  I can this could be at issue without asynchronous transfer, but even with AES/EBU and S/PDIF?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> does the WA2 have enough juice to power lower impedance cans like the LCD2 or denons?
> 
> i like its musicality that i see described over what i read about the wa6se, but the 6se just has so much more power.


 


  I wasn't a huge fan of my (now sold) WA2 with my D7000s (a bit too flabby bass), but with my LCD-2s, the WA2 was quite good (better than the Concerto IMO).


----------



## Rawrbington

the bad thing is i just got my wa3 the other day.  but now i want all of its traits but in something beefy enough to drive any impedance can.
  gonna have to sell some stuff.  but its crap i never use.
  im already addicted to the woo


----------



## Wapiti

Welcome to the tasty world  of good tube amps!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Welcome to the tasty world  of good tube amps!


 


  (_Shhhhhh... and "Upgrades"_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thinking of either buying a d7000 or some pro 900s right now... also gonna upgrade my hd 650 cable.
   
  hey silentone, have you ever compared d7000 to the hd 650s?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I don't understand why your long pro-Apple post was inspired by my comment "the OS itself does not sound different."
> 
> As to the walled garden, as long as the garden's denizens are happy they should remain there, no reason to leave.  For me, owning a Mac is like buying a car allowed on only 5% of the world's roads, with a strict speed limiter - and you need to take it to a dealer to add washer fluid.  No moaning.  It's just not for me.
> 
> ...


 


  Greetings Wapiti ~
   
  That comment belonged to me (the OS comment). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Your Ducati just set my heart racing. Would love to get few shots (photos). Even when I owned a fully blown Vance & Hines Ninja, I secretly lusted after Ducati.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I don't understand why your long pro-Apple post was inspired by my comment "the OS itself does not sound different."
> 
> As to the walled garden, as long as the garden's denizens are happy they should remain there, no reason to leave.  For me, owning a Mac is like buying a car allowed on only 5% of the world's roads, with a strict speed limiter - and you need to take it to a dealer to add washer fluid.  No moaning.  It's just not for me.
> 
> ...


 
  Ducati racing!  I spent a year and a half as the senior video editor for Speed Vision now known as "SPEED".  I met a lot of pro cycle racers during that time.  The young ones had hands in pretty good shape, the older dudes who no longer raced but narrated the show races had messed up gnarly hands.  All of them had handshake grips of steel. 
  
   

 On a Woo note I keep oscillating between the Woo WASE6 and the WA2.    1K is my price mark so it's a battle between these two.  Unless anyone knows about the rumors of a new Woo line...


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> does the WA2 have enough juice to power lower impedance cans like the LCD2 or denons?
> 
> i like its musicality that i see described over what i read about the wa6se, but the 6se just has so much more power.


 

 In my experience, yes, it has enough juice... but the WA2's relaxed sound signature may not produce the kind of amp/can symmetry you're looking for.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> On a Woo note I keep oscillating between the Woo WASE6 and the WA2.    1K is my price mark so it's a battle between these two.  Unless anyone knows about the rumors of a new Woo line...


 

 I suspect you're keeping your V200... if so, you may find that the WA6SE has a relatively similar sound signature, while the WA2 is rather different (more stereotypically tube-like, though not overly so). IMO, then, it depends on whether you like the V200 and want another means of getting to the same sound, or if you want an amp that offers a counterpoint to your SS rig.


----------



## Silent One

Based on Rawrbington's comments, if he stays in the Woo line I think the WA22 meets his req specs. But it's a lot of ground to cover going from the '3' to the '22.' The 6 SE would give him the juice but likely buyer's remorse. Not all bad though, because of demand for new and pre-owned Woo Audio amps alike.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Ducati racing!  I spent a year and a half as the senior video editor for Speed Vision now known as "SPEED".  I met a lot of pro cycle racers during that time.  The young ones had hands in pretty good shape, the older dudes who no longer raced but narrated the show races had messed up gnarly hands.  All of them had handshake grips of steel.
> 
> 
> 
> On a Woo note I keep oscillating between the Woo WASE6 and the WA2.    1K is my price mark so it's a battle between these two.  Unless anyone knows about the rumors of a new Woo line...


 


  Do you have any plans to Hot Rod your Woo (V-caps or other)?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Based on Rawrbington's comments, if he stays in the Woo line I think the WA22 meets his req specs. But it's a lot of ground to cover going from the '3' to the '22.' The 6 SE would give him the juice but likely buyer's remorse. Not all bad though, because of demand for new and pre-owned Woo Audio amps alike.


 

 Agreed that Woo "buyer's remorse" never lasts long... for one reason or another!
   
  Rawrbington, what cans do you consider to be your primary set? If it's your DT990/600, I'd say that the WA2 or 3 is your best bet. If you're thinking DT770s, then I'd say the 6SE might be better in the long run (I liked the 6SE better with every pair of closed cans I tried). I agree with SilentOne that a WA22 would probably be a good answer for you, but frankly, I'm not sure that you need to spend $2000 on an amp to get the best out of your current "quiver" of headphones.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote:


silent one said:


> Based on Rawrbington's comments, if he stays in the Woo line I think the WA22 meets his req specs. But it's a lot of ground to cover going from the '3' to the '22.' The 6 SE would give him the juice but likely buyer's remorse. Not all bad though, because of demand for new and pre-owned Woo Audio amps alike.


 


  yeah.  thats why i wasn't afraid to jump on the wa 3.  i figured worst case i could sell it for close to what i paid since i got it used.
  but the 22 is out of my league.
  i could scrounge up a grand but not 2.
   
  does the 6se still have a warm tubey sound? or is it more sterile and SS sounding?
  really i just want the wa 2 with 6se power.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> We are pretty much saying the same thing.
> 
> Interesting to learn of this Mac quirk.  I can this could be at issue without asynchronous transfer, but even with AES/EBU and S/PDIF?


 


  Agreed. I'm using the Mhdt USBridge from Mac to W4S DAC, sometimes Coax, other times Optical.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Agreed that Woo "buyer's remorse" never lasts long... for one reason or another!
> 
> Rawrbington, what cans do you consider to be your primary set? If it's your DT990/600, I'd say that the WA2 or 3 is your best bet. If you're thinking DT770s, then I'd say the 6SE might be better in the long run (I liked the 6SE better with every pair of closed cans I tried). I agree with SilentOne that a WA22 would probably be a good answer for you, but frankly, I'm not sure that you need to spend $2000 on an amp to get the best out of your current "quiver" of headphones.


 


  its between the 990s and my 770/32.
  but im probably gonna grab either some denon 2000s or pro 900 with xmas money.  or sell a couple cans and get the LCD 2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> yeah.  thats why i wasn't afraid to jump on the wa 3.  i figured worst case i could sell it for close to what i paid since i got it used.
> ...


 


  Yes, a WA2 with 6 SE power on tap was the impression I got. But the latter does not sound tubey. I'd place it half way in between Tube & SS. Of course, you could tune it with tubes, but it will still have you on the outside looking through the window 'cause it's no OTL. The cans you have today and the cans you prefer in 2012 will go a long way in providing you with an answer.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I suspect you're keeping your V200... if so, you may find that the WA6SE has a relatively similar sound signature, while the WA2 is rather different (more stereotypically tube-like, though not overly so). IMO, then, it depends on whether you like the V200 and want another means of getting to the same sound, or if you want an amp that offers a counterpoint to your SS rig.


 


  Keeping the V200.  I think I want something like the WA2 to give me the other side of the fence. The tube-like side so I can switch off and move between both worlds depending on the mood of my ear.  Thats about all I know of as contenders in the 1K range.  In the hooter weather I can go V200 and in the cooler weather a tube unit.  Such is life in the desert...


----------



## Wapiti

A small pic that shows the bike well pre race trim, street leathers.
   
  I am currently recovering from a ~150 mph fall (many broken ribs, punctured lung, broken arm, etc.  Right arm is still partially paralyzed and I can only type with my left hand. 
   
  But the helicopter ride was cool.
   
  Nice to share with someone that knows what this thing is.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> A small pic that shows the bike well pre race trim, street leathers.
> 
> I am currently recovering from a ~150 mph fall (many broken ribs, punctured lung, broken arm, etc.  Right arm is still partially paralyzed and I can only type with my left hand.
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks for the shot, Wapiti. A great way for me to start the day energized! I cringed upon reading about the fall - wishing you a full recovery. On the helicopter ride, we enjoyed your positive outlook and sense of humor. Cheers!


----------



## Wapiti

Thanks!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Thanks!


 

 In 1980 I was in a motorcycle crash myself.  You never stop paying the price for something like that.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> In 1980 I was in a motorcycle crash myself.  You never stop paying the price for something like that.


 

 This is my second bad one.  You are absolutely right.
   
  "Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever."
      - Shane Falco
   
  I assume you have read Hunter S. Thompson's review of the Ducati 900SS.   If not, it's a great read.  I send this to anyone that asks why I ride these things.


----------



## jc9394

I rode a 998 before and it is scary fast ride on the first time but after few times, it is the best ride.  I probably get one again when my girls are in college.


----------



## Sesam

Yay! my weekend is saved, the Sophia Princess 274B mesh tube arrived here this morning, so now I can directly compare it with the rigid plate version. Have been listening for some time, and while the mesh does sound very similar there appears to be some subtle difference. 
   
  My first impression is that the mesh doesn't sound brighter or thinner (good news because that is what I had feared, based on other peoples impressions).The only difference that stands out for me so far is the bass, the rigid plate appears to hit harder and have a tighter bass. The bass with the mesh sounds like it is slightly softer and "boomier" if tthat makes any sense


----------



## john57

Sesam,
  That makes sense with me. The mesh might have a slightly different B+ voltage being send to the tubes in the circuit. A slightly higher B+ voltage makes the bass a bit tighter and a lower B+ voltage tend to make the bass softer.


----------



## Wapiti

Sesam, it will be fun to read your report.
   
  I'm listening to a couple of the mesh plates now - but I don't have solids with which to compare.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> In my experience, yes, it has enough juice... but the WA2's relaxed sound signature may not produce the kind of amp/can symmetry you're looking for.


 


  I'm also leaning to something euphonic like the WA2 for recordings that require a less detailed presentation than one often obtains from the type of detail acquired from solid state.   For instance I have pretty much the entire catalog of Impulse Jazz.  Much of it Jazz from the 50's and 60's.  It was never meant to be experienced under the high resolution microscope todays gear can deliver.  All of it was mixed for speakers and even then not for the paradigm of todays playbacks systems.  Nevertheless the music was recorded and mixed to a high standard it's just that in most cases the tracks are better enjoyed when an amp delivers more of the emotion involved in the music than the type of detail we've come to crave as audiophiles.   
   
  So in essence I'm looking for a tube amp that delivers more of the emotional side of things and less of the cerebral.  Don't know if this makes much sense but it's the perspective I'd like to have for some of my collection.  For other types of music I definitely want to bath in the world of soundstage wonderment and minute detail.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm also leaning to something euphonic like the WA2 for recordings that require a less detailed presentation than one often obtains from the type of detail acquired from solid state.   For instance I have pretty much the entire catalog of Impulse Jazz.  Much of it Jazz from the 50's and 60's.  It was never meant to be experienced under the high resolution microscope todays gear can deliver.  All of it was mixed for speakers and even then not for the paradigm of todays playbacks systems.  Nevertheless the music was recorded and mixed to a high standard it's just that in most cases the tracks are better enjoyed when an amp delivers more of the emotion involved in the music than the type of detail we've come to crave as audiophiles.
> 
> So in essence I'm looking for a tube amp that delivers more of the emotional side of things and less of the cerebral.  Don't know if this makes much sense but it's the perspective I'd like to have for some of my collection.  For other types of music I definitely want to bath in the world of soundstage wonderment and minute detail.


 

 i use my hd 650s for that


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm also leaning to something euphonic like the WA2 for recordings that require a less detailed presentation than one often obtains from the type of detail acquired from solid state.   For instance I have pretty much the entire catalog of Impulse Jazz.  Much of it Jazz from the 50's and 60's.  It was never meant to be experienced under the high resolution microscope todays gear can deliver.  All of it was mixed for speakers and even then not for the paradigm of todays playbacks systems.  Nevertheless the music was recorded and mixed to a high standard it's just that in most cases the tracks are better enjoyed when an amp delivers more of the emotion involved in the music than the type of detail we've come to crave as audiophiles.
> 
> So in essence I'm looking for a tube amp that delivers more of the emotional side of things and less of the cerebral.  Don't know if this makes much sense but it's the perspective I'd like to have for some of my collection.  For other types of music I definitely want to bath in the world of soundstage wonderment and minute detail.


 

 Makes perfect sense. When I want to sink into my leather listening chair, close my eyes and lose myself in the music -- like I did with "Waltz For Debby" the other night -- then the LCD-2.2/WA2 combo is how I roll.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i use my hd 650s for that


 

 I loved my HD650s as well.
   
  If you haven't heard the LCD-2, you might be surprised how similar they are (in some ways) to the Senns. They're totally different in other ways, but for me, they meet a particular listening need in the same way.


----------



## WarriorAnt

From what I have read sennheiser's wireless headphone RS 220 uses the same drivers as the 650.   It's on my list for late night TV viewing while my family slumbers, will be interesting to hear how it performs with music.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> From what I have read sennheiser's wireless headphone RS 220 uses the same drivers as the 650.   It's on my list for late night TV viewing while my family slumbers, will be interesting to hear how it performs with music.


 


  I have the Sennheiser 120 which I bought for the same reason. The problem is the damn things pick up every cordless phone in the neighborhood which is why I never use them.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I have the Sennheiser 120 which I bought for the same reason. The problem is the damn things pick up every cordless phone in the neighborhood which is why I never use them.


 


  I have the 180 and it does not pick up any static in the neighborhood, and it play very well on music too.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have the 180 and it does not pick up any static in the neighborhood, and it play very well on music too.


 


  Looks like i should have sprang for the higher end models. Mine not only pick up static but full conversations. When they don't though they are pretty decent. I never used them for music, only watching television and playing on the xbox.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have the 180 and it does not pick up any static in the neighborhood, and it play very well on music too.


 


  The RS 220 uses a different method of broadcast and reception than the previous wireless sennheisers.    My biggest hope is that there is no delay in the audio during transmission which of course is not a problem with music but it is for me when viewing high def TV files. My brain is wired to see lip sync in the slightest and regular HD TV broadcasts are painful enough in this area.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Looks like i should have sprang for the higher end models. Mine not only pick up static but full conversations. When they don't though they are pretty decent. I never used them for music, only watching television and playing on the xbox.


 


  I was watching a movie couple weeks ago while my wife was on the cordless the whole time and I did not heard a single word from her.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm also leaning to something euphonic like the WA2 for recordings that require a less detailed presentation than one often obtains from the type of detail acquired from solid state.   For instance I have pretty much the entire catalog of Impulse Jazz.  Much of it Jazz from the 50's and 60's.  It was never meant to be experienced under the high resolution microscope todays gear can deliver.  All of it was mixed for speakers and even then not for the paradigm of todays playbacks systems.  Nevertheless the music was recorded and mixed to a high standard it's just that in most cases the tracks are better enjoyed when an amp delivers more of the emotion involved in the music than the type of detail we've come to crave as audiophiles.
> 
> So in essence I'm looking for a tube amp that delivers more of the emotional side of things and less of the cerebral.  Don't know if this makes much sense but it's the perspective I'd like to have for some of my collection.  For other types of music I definitely want to bath in the world of soundstage wonderment and minute detail.


 

  
  Tea & Cookies ~
   
  Beautifully framed, WarriorAnt! Wonderful posts such as this one, allows me to skip the cookies and simply savor the tea in all its delight. Admittedly, I stopped reading your post after only the second sentence. I needed time to gather myself after reading _"I have pretty much the entire catalog of Impulse Jazz."_


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tea & Cookies ~
> 
> Beautifully framed, WarriorAnt! Wonderful posts such as this one, allows me to skip the cookies and simply savor the tea in all its delight. Admittedly, I stopped reading your post after only the second sentence. I needed time to gather myself after reading _"I have pretty much the entire catalog of Impulse Jazz."_


 

 My brother in law once worked for Geffen Records in NYC.  He used his connections to acquire catalogs from other companies by trading Geffen catalogs.  He asked what I might want in terms of music catalogs so I asked him for the entire Impulse catalog. He also offered up the ECM catalog among many others but I am not one to take advantage of the generosity of others so I settled for just the Impulse.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My brother in law once worked for Geffen Records in NYC.  He used his connections to acquire catalogs from other companies by trading Geffen catalogs.  He asked what I might want in terms of music catalogs so I asked him for the entire Impulse catalog. He also offered up the ECM catalog among many others but I am not one to take advantage of the generosity of others so I settled for just the Impulse.


 


  O.k., I recovered and finished reading your post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  What a gift! Have you been giving thought to the very first track you might play to initiate the WA2?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i use my hd 650s for that


 


  For this, that and the other, I use my beautiful sounding re-cabled D7000's.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> O.k., I recovered and finished reading your post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Not yet because I still have to list  a lot of worldly junk on Craigs list and the WA2 has some competition from other tube amps in the arena but I really like the look of Woo amps so its a top contender.  Now that the heat here has subsided I can get people to leave their homes and come look at the worldly possessions I have for sale of which the monetary transactions shall provide the means to fund the Woo.  For instance I have a Japanese hand forged Masakuni Bonsai trimming shears that's worth somewhere near $600 when purchased new.  I bought it for only $90 in 1990 and I'm wondering what it might bring today.  Hopefully part of a Woo.


----------



## Szadzik

Got home today and after unpacking all the stuff I had waiting for me I unpacked the WA2. Nice piece of kit. Installed the tubes with caution as it was my 'first time' with a tube amp. Using PC>FLAC>USB>HA160D>WA2>T1 - a bliss.
   
  I have to admit it sounds incredibly better that the 160D. Much less edge and the bass is huuuge.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Got home today and after unpacking all the stuff I had waiting for me I unpacked the WA2. Nice piece of kit. Installed the tubes with caution as it was my 'first time' with a tube amp. Using PC>FLAC>USB>HA160D>WA2>T1 - a bliss.
> 
> I have to admit it sounds incredibly better that the 160D. Much less edge and the bass is huuuge.


 

  
  What a relief!!!! I had been on the edge of my seat for my fellow Woo Audio amp brother. Congratulations! When other members are fortunate to purchase, receive new gear, for me it is a shared excitement... especially Woo! Curiously, (we don't judge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) what was the very first track you chose for listening?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> A small pic that shows the bike well pre race trim, street leathers.
> 
> I am currently recovering from a ~150 mph fall (many broken ribs, punctured lung, broken arm, etc.  Right arm is still partially paralyzed and I can only type with my left hand.
> 
> ...


 

 That sounds incredibly painful.  I don't think I would be in as good of spirits if it were me.  Hope you see a full recovery.


----------



## Silent One

Um, Szadzik? It's Friday evening. You got new gear. And likely having the time of your life with the WA2. _But don't forget to eat!  _





  And do keep us posted.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Um, Szadzik? It's Friday evening. You got new gear. And likely having the time of your life with the WA2. _But don't forget to eat!  _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Haha. Friday evening in GMT, but the day started for me at 6 am GMT+4 which means I have been up for 22 hours and quite a few thousand kilometers now.
   
  Norah Jones - Seven Years.
   
  Impressions as above, much less edgy sound. Very pleasant, bass has become more prominent too, just the amount you would expect. The amp also shows the real strength of T1s - versatility. Whatever song I play they sound great.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That sounds incredibly painful.  I don't think I would be in as good of spirits if it were me.  Hope you see a full recovery.


 

 Thanks for the well wishes! 
   
  Living in a funk would serve only to take away from what I can do and enjoy.  I found good subs to cover my playing gigs, can still make recordings and enjoy listening to music.  Plus, I am drawing my full salary and have had a bit over three months off.  It was a great excuse to buy my WA5 and T1.
   
  If it didn't hurt so much I would recommend it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Got home today and after unpacking all the stuff I had waiting for me I unpacked the WA2. Nice piece of kit. Installed the tubes with caution as it was my 'first time' with a tube amp. Using PC>FLAC>USB>HA160D>WA2>T1 - a bliss.
> 
> I have to admit it sounds incredibly better that the 160D. Much less edge and the bass is huuuge.


 


  yay, gratz on your purchase!
  
   
  i myself plan on buying a WA2 in the future. i got ultrasone pro 900s and some new cables on the way for now


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yay, gratz on your purchase!
> 
> i myself plan on buying a WA2 in the future. i got ultrasone pro 900s and some new cables on the way for now


 


   
  Good luck - it is really worth it. I do not know how it would pair with the 900s, but with my T1s it takes the music to a heavenly level.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Haha. Friday evening in GMT, but the day started for me at 6 am GMT+4 which means I have been up for 22 hours and quite a few thousand kilometers now.
> 
> Norah Jones - Seven Years.
> 
> Impressions as above, much less edgy sound. Very pleasant, bass has become more prominent too, just the amount you would expect. The amp also shows the real strength of T1s - versatility. Whatever song I play they sound great.


 

  
  Though talented, never much got into Norah Jones. But her half-sister, Anoushka Shankar and her CD "Rise - Remixes"... a delight!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ i love norah jones!!! shes one of my favorite artists!


----------



## Rawrbington

Toys Go Winding Down is freaking magical on my 990s with the wa3


----------



## jc9394

Pop in GEC 6AS7G and BGRP to play with the new guy (596), they sound really close to EML 5U4G and I only have a little over 10 hours on the 596.  Not sure the burn in time on these mad scientist tubes, hope it will continue to improve.  
   
  Off topic, I have been using LCD-2 exclusive last couple months, pull the HD800 out of the closet and immediately noticed the details, soundstages, and comfort I was missing for a while.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Pop in GEC 6AS7G and BGRP to play with the new guy (596), they sound really close to EML 5U4G and I only have a little over 10 hours on the 596.  Not sure the burn in time on these mad scientist tubes, hope it will continue to improve.
> 
> Off topic, I have been using LCD-2 exclusive last couple months, pull the HD800 out of the closet and immediately noticed the details, soundstages, and comfort I was missing for a while.


 

 I think you need both to appreciate what each other has. I slightly favor the sound stage and comfort of the HD800 over the LCD-2's, although I wear them about 50/50. If the LCD-2 were more comfortable and had a bigger sound stage, I'd only have one pair.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I've been to the Woo website at least 20 times today...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been to the Woo website at least 20 times today...


 


  hahaha ikr i go there all the time as well, even though i already have a WA6SE


----------



## Rawrbington

for reals.
  if i won the lottery the first thing i'd do is buy one of everything for sale on woo's site so i could stop going there.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> for reals.
> if i won the lottery the first thing i'd do is buy one of everything for sale on woo's site so i could stop going there.


 


  I would just buy Woo...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> for reals.
> if i won the lottery the first thing i'd do is buy one of everything for sale on woo's site so i could stop going there.


 


  +1
   





9
  maxed wes + sr007/009 as well as WA2, WA5, WA22, some stands, etc.... as well as the new 234 when it comes out.


----------



## rydenfan

Just ordered a Woo WA6SE with the Sophia Princess 274B and the 6DN7/6EM7 with teflon adapters. Very much looking forward to hearing how it drives my LCD2.2's


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rydenfan said:


> Just ordered a Woo WA6SE with the Sophia Princess 274B and the 6DN7/6EM7 with teflon adapters. Very much looking forward to hearing how it drives my LCD2.2's


 


  yay another WA6SE member!! <3 <3
   
  u will love the sophia, really good tube


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> for reals.
> if i won the lottery the first thing i'd do is buy one of everything for sale on woo's site so i could stop going there.


 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hahaha ikr i go there all the time as well, even though i already have a WA6SE


 
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been to the Woo website at least 20 times today...


 

  





  Candy should look tempting, yeah?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rydenfan said:


> Just ordered a Woo WA6SE with the Sophia Princess 274B and the 6DN7/6EM7 with teflon adapters. Very much looking forward to hearing how it drives my LCD2.2's


 


  Welcome! I too, started off my WA6SE journey with Miss Sophia. She really liked my Jazz tracks... _a lot!_


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Pop in GEC 6AS7G and BGRP to play with the new guy (596), they sound really close to EML 5U4G and I only have a little over 10 hours on the 596.  Not sure the burn in time on these mad scientist tubes, hope it will continue to improve.
> 
> Off topic, I have been using LCD-2 exclusive last couple months, pull the HD800 out of the closet and immediately noticed the details, soundstages, and comfort I was missing for a while.


 

 JC, with you on the HD800's and the GEC's and BGRP's.  The 596 I got from Glenn sounded good right off the bat.  It was slightly better than the EML.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> for reals.
> if i won the lottery the first thing i'd do is buy one of everything for sale on woo's site so i could stop going there.


 


  It won't work! Addicted, your return to the site could be triggered by something as easy as a post in this thread. Especially, a purchase post. Then, you'd speed over to Woo Audio's website... no, wait... you'd you already have a browser window open. But no matter how you got there, you'd look to see if Woo made any changes to the amps, the site or both!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It won't work! Addicted, your return to the site could be triggered by something as easy as a post in this thread. Especially, a purchase post. Then, you'd speed over to Woo Audio's website... no, wait... you'd you already have a browser window open. But no matter how you got there, you'd look to see if Woo made any changes to the amps, the site or both!


 

 +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> JC, with you on the HD800's and the GEC's and BGRP's.  The 596 I got from Glenn sounded good right off the bat.  It was slightly better than the EML.


 

 On the '596' and sounding good right off the bat, I was stunned in this regard. Surely, I was looking at 50-75-100 hours on the clock. This is the first tube, driver or rectifier, that did its thang right then and there!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 


  Ah ha! Now I better understand the rhyme & reason behind your three monitors. When not playing video games, your music library is on the left monitor, school work on the center monitor and wooaudio.com on the right monitor. 




  By the way, I finally collected my samples for your _WA 6 Special Edition_ and will forward them to you in minutes...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ i love norah jones!!! shes one of my favorite artists!


 


  Before I really had a chance to get intimate with her songs, I often found myself cafeside, book store or audio demonstration and drowning in Norah jones or Diana Krall tracks. I'm almost certain I'll find a palatable track by either real soon (no offense to anyone). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  How do I know this? Because I love music. And at some point... just a matter of time. So, Norah Jones this weekend it is! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you ever listen to her sister's music?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ah ha! Now I better understand the rhyme & reason behind your three monitors. When not playing video games, your music library is on the left monitor, school work on the center monitor and wooaudio.com on the right monitor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  actually its open folders on the left for me to add new songs as well as adobe soundbooth to do spectral analysis (on files which i am suspicious of whether they're truly lossless or not). so left is download folder + music folder to add stuff to library as well as adobe.
   
  center monitor is internet browser as well as bittorrent.
   
  the right monitor is just itunes 
   
   
  and thanks, im excited to hear the samples!!! <3
  
   

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Before I really had a chance to get intimate with her songs, I often found myself cafeside, book store or audio demonstration and drowning in Norah jones or Diana Krall tracks. I'm almost certain I'll find a palatable track by either real soon (no offense to anyone).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  she has a sister?
  
   
   
   
   
  in the meantime, listening to Burlap to Cashmere


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> actually its open folders on the left for me to add new songs as well as adobe soundbooth to do spectral analysis (on files which i am suspicious of whether they're truly lossless or not). so left is download folder + music folder to add stuff to library as well as adobe.
> 
> center monitor is internet browser as well as bittorrent.
> 
> ...


 







  Don't laugh. I just spent the better part of last hour looking for those samples on six different drives to no avail. Only after I stepped away for a hot minute, it occurred to me, they are WAV files with no tags. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  O.k., so now we are back on track! _Update: Please allow me time to manually type in some info... next hour? Dessert and kitchen duty awaits._ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Her half-sister, Anoushka Shankar, share the same father (Ravi Shankar) who is also famous for his music, quite the family.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Don't laugh. I just spent the better part of last hour looking for those samples on six different drives to no avail. Only after I stepped away for a hot minute, it occurred to me, they are WAV files with no tags.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   

   
  ill have to google her lol


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Don't laugh. I just spent the better part of last hour looking for those samples on six different drives to no avail. Only after I stepped away for a hot minute, it occurred to me, they are WAV files with no tags.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I just ordered that CD from my county library.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I just ordered that CD from my county library.


 


  Anoushka's "Rise" or "RISE Remixes?" I got both, much in the same way I always get Bebel Gilberto's stuff - the initial release and then the remixes.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Anoushka's "Rise" or "RISE Remixes?" I got both, much in the same way I always get Bebel Gilberto's stuff - the initial release and then the remixes.


 

    "Rise"  Anoushka Shankar
   
    "Breathing under water"  Anoushka Shankar and Karsh Kale.
   
     "At home with friend"   by Bell, Joshua, 1967-   Variant moods: Duet for sitar & violin (feat. Anoushka Shankar, sitar) 
   
     "Versions"   by Thievery Corporation -- Beloved (*Anoushka* Shankar)
   
  "Yoga revolution. Volume one "  Sea dreamer (*Anoushka* Shankar, Karsh Kale ; featuring Sting)
   
  "Full circle-- Carnegie Hall 2000  by Shankar, Ravi, 1920- * *Ravi Shankar, *Anoushka* Shankar, sitar ; Bikram Ghosh, Tanmoy Bose, tabla ; Ajay 
   
   
  I love my county library.  They have a request shelf there just for me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> "Rise"  Anoushka Shankar
> 
> "Breathing under water"  Anoushka Shankar and Karsh Kale.
> 
> ...


 


  Agreed. My libraries in both Los Angeles County & Alameda County have a lot in store for me. Retrieved my Anoushka from same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Got a late start by several hours tonight - just now getting in session with my beloved _WA 6 Special Edition. _Briefly threw iTunes into 32-bit mode w/Amarra+Lion - sounds much better than it has since Lion install out of the box. The 64-bit plug-in is the suspect!
   
  Next hour will trash preferences; plug-in and then run iTunes properly (preferably) in 64-bit kernel & extensions and see what the payoff is. If necessary, will uninstall/re-install Amarra.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Agreed. My libraries in both Los Angeles County & Alameda County have a lot in store for me. Retrieved my Anoushka from same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 enjoy your session, ill have to listen to her songs later, gonna listen to that sample cd now tho once it finishes downloading..


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Agreed. My libraries in both Los Angeles County & Alameda County have a lot in store for me. Retrieved my Anoushka from same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  The more I listen to Amarra the more I realize how good the player really is.   It has taken me some time but I've come to realize that while the other players are good and a immensely cheaper, Amarra is in a universe all its own.  Especially when you load it with tracks into its own menu, then Amarra shines more than ever.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The more I listen to Amarra the more I realize how good the player really is.   It has taken me some time but I've come to realize that while the other players are good and a immensely cheaper, Amarra is in a universe all its own.  Especially when you load it with tracks into its own menu, then Amarra shines more than ever.


 

 Ok, it took a few days but the music program is restored! Successfully trashed Preferences & 64-bit Plug-in; deleted Amarra, re-installed and Lion+Amarra now meets expectations! Now I'm free to focus on ending the NBA Labor stoppage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  One thing that stands out in Amarra between the now docile and digital *****cats (perhaps, two things...) - In Lion, though more detailed, seems to be smoother and a bit brighter in the 500-1000 kHz bands, while the top and bottom seems to match in both OS's. This gives the impression almost that under Lion there's a touch less bass; slam. When actually it is the same but the middle range has become a touch more prominent, though smoother. So, an illusion if you would.
   
  Also, Lion appears to be doing more housekeeping deep into the background than Snow Leopard. I wish Sonic Studios would give thought to letting Amarra "Hog" the Audio drivers and provide Integer Non-mixable streams - isolating playback from system sounds, midi sounds and all that other merde!
   
  All in all, I'm finding happiness inside my music library again with both cats - Lion gets the Solid State Drive, Snow Leopard the Hard Disk Drive.


----------



## Silent One

Breakfast Trivia ~
   
  I just finished playing a very funky, very moving track "Outa Space." So, how did it sound on my revised computer audio system? Wickedly delicious! Can you name the unknown artist? (Hint: the artist is the only person to play with both The Beatles and The Rolling Stones). 




   
  Post Script: No Googling!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ok, it took a few days but the music program is restored!


 
   
  Congrats!  That was a lot of work.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Congrats!  That was a lot of work.


 
   

 Thanks, Wapiti. Sonic Studios had known issues with Lion and advised users to stay with Snow Leopard for a hot minute while they work it out. But, I could never find out just what IT was that was troubling between the new cat and Amarra. And so... I waited... no disclosure. So then I go for it! Results? Cat Scratch fever!!!





   
  Thanks to a current user (WarriorAnt) and his guidance, we be jammin'! Now listening to The Patrice Rushen Trio - "Red Clay" (well past my bed time). But it's fast approaching 0700 hrs and that'll be hour eight - time to shut it down. It's been a fun, fun overnight session. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No stab at the breakfast trivia (without Google)?
   
   
   
 Breakfast Trivia ~
  
 I just finished playing a very funky, very moving track "Outa Space." So, how did it sound on my revised computer audio system? Wickedly delicious! Can you name the unknown artist? (Hint: the artist is the only person to play with both The Beatles and The Rolling Stones).


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But it's fast approaching 0700 hrs and that'll be hour eight - time to shut it down.


 

 I respect the Woo limit as well, although it doesn't make much sense to me.  They are well made and tube amps are always warm in operation.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I respect the Woo limit as well, although it doesn't make much sense to me.  They are well made and tube amps are always warm in operation.


 


  My WA6SE runs so cool, _it could go 168 consecutive hours without breathing hard. Only the musicians would be laboring... _


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Off topic, I have been using LCD-2 exclusive last couple months, pull the HD800 out of the closet and immediately noticed the details, soundstages, and comfort I was missing for a while.


 


 X 2
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been to the Woo website at least 20 times today...


 
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hahaha ikr i go there all the time as well, even though i already have a WA6SE


 

 Know what, it's become an addict.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2
> 
> 
> 
> Know what, it's become an addict.


 


   
  If I have time during work, I think I probably visit this thread 10+ times.  It is my home page on Firefox.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If I have time during work, I think I probably visit this thread 10+ times.  It is my home page on Firefox.


 


  Pre-Internet, you really would have been in trouble at home! You'd have subscribed to every print magazine covering Audio. Catalogs from all the top vendors in the industry. Including but not limited to duplicate quarterly catalogs from Woo Audio sent to home and office. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And though they'd all be stacked neatly, orderly in the corner of the listening room, your mate would have issues with your compilations. One day, she'd sweetly ask if you could move them when you had the chance. So you'd proudly and literally "move" them all into the closet - in one corner a mountain of print media, the other corner, a mountain of tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All to her frustration - _thinking to herself "I thought I asked him to throw 'em out?!" _
   
  Those with audio addictions are highly adaptable - the internet just speeds the rush and bring more highs!_ _


----------



## jc9394

Wow SilentOne, you are my lost best friend.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow SilentOne, you are my lost best friend.


 


  I stand with you, my friend, in solidarity!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pre-Internet, you really would have been in trouble at home! You'd have subscribed to every print magazine covering Audio. Catalogs from all the top vendors in the industry. Including but not limited to duplicate quarterly catalogs from Woo Audio sent to home and office.


 
   
  lol i would do the same thing.


----------



## WarriorAnt

During the pre internet days I would spend all my free time camped out at one Salon or another listening to gear in NYC and any other venue within driving distance. Usually I'd be with other audiophile friends and together we'd comb over the gear and the various virtues at hand. and if not at the Salons then at a gathering with the same friends in the home of one audiophile or another, usually to the chagrin of one my friends hosting spouse.  But those days are gone.   I no longer live near NYC and I think the proliferation of audio venues that were available in the mid 80's to mid 90's has pretty much dried up.  This is not because of the advent of the internet though.  It has more to do with the Designer Wars that began near the late 80's when designers of both gear and speakers began to out design each other with equipment that quickly led to absurd prices. Something which has continued to this day in that arena and is now beginning to occur in the headphone realm.  With the prices of gear soaring into the stratosphere the average audiophile could no longer walk into a Salon and do business as usual.   So the market began to narrow and the customer base began to evaporate.  Many Salon went out of business, those that did not survived by going into the home theater arena.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Many Salon went out of business, those that did not survived by going into the home theater arena.


 





   
  im tired of seeing home theater stores versus seeing an actual hi-fi store.
   
  home theather usually has only speakers, no headphones, no DACs, no amps, less speaker selection,  etc


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of Hi-Fi, I remember the very first time I saw a Klipschorn speaker in a showroom. I was baffled (pun intended)! Walked up to it at an increasingly slower pace and stopped dead front and center, as if I were waiting for an introduction. That would come 10 minutes later. Until then, I slowly peered around the beautiful wood cabinet. No answers. So, I just walked around the K-Horn a couple of times trying to make sense of it all.
   
  Eventually, an audiophile came over and explained the speaker's concept. Would love to hook up a pair of K-Horns to a pair of WA5 Mono blocks!


----------



## xinque

So how do you guys usually clean your amps?  Have a black Woo and my room is a dust magnet.  Wondering if there's an easy way to do it without liquids, maybe compressed air?  Do you guys remove the tubes first?  I'm guessing those static wiping cloths are a no.


----------



## Wapiti

One of the advantages of silver (it also sounds better).
   
  A cloth, staticly charged or not, works well.  An old fashion feather duster is good.
   
  Leave the tubes in and give it a good wipe down.
   
  Tube equipment is neither fussy nor fragile.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xinque said:


> So how do you guys usually clean your amps?  Have a black Woo and my room is a dust magnet.  Wondering if there's an easy way to do it without liquids, maybe compressed air?  Do you guys remove the tubes first?  I'm guessing those static wiping cloths are a no.


 
   
  I usually don't remove the tubes. I dust around the tubes if I can with a _microfiber cleaning cloth_ and blow the air with a hand-squeeze _Giottos Rocket Air Blaster_ (no accelerants, etc.).
   
  And for around the tubes I use a _LensPEN_.
   
  I may as well be an paleontologist.


----------



## xinque

Thanks for the suggestions guys !


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If I have time during work, I think I probably visit this thread 10+ times.  It is my home page on Firefox.


 

  Head-Fi is my homepage too since day one I joined. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I usually don't remove the tubes. I dust around the tubes if I can with a _microfiber cleaning cloth_ and blow the air with a hand-squeeze _Giottos Rocket Air Blaster_ (no accelerants, etc.).
> 
> And for around the tubes I use a _LensPEN_.
> 
> I may as well be an paleontologist.


 


 This ROCKET is lovely even it cannot be ignited and fire up to the space.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I usually don't remove the tubes. I dust around the tubes if I can with a _microfiber cleaning cloth_ and blow the air with a hand-squeeze _Giottos Rocket Air Blaster_ (no accelerants, etc.).
> 
> And for around the tubes I use a _LensPEN_.
> 
> I may as well be an paleontologist.


 

 The modern lens cleaning tools of a photographer.
   
  If you have not seen a LensPen, check it out.  It works astonishingly well.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Head-Fi is my homepage too since day one I joined.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This Rocket knows how cool it is.
  It's a _COOL_ ROCKET!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And for around the tubes I use a _LensPEN_.
> 
> I may as well be an paleontologist.


 

  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> The modern lens cleaning tools of a photographer.
> 
> If you have not seen a LensPen, check it out.  It works astonishingly well.


 


 I think Clayton got one already. BTW, I kidnapped one of my wife's make -up brush for the tubes, it works very well too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   


  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This Rocket knows how cool it is.
> It's a _COOL_ ROCKET!


 


 That's an value-added feature, urgh?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I usually don't remove the tubes. I dust around the tubes if I can with a _microfiber cleaning cloth_ and blow the air with a hand-squeeze _Giottos Rocket Air Blaster_ (no accelerants, etc.).
> 
> And for around the tubes I use a _LensPEN_.
> 
> I may as well be an paleontologist.


 


  Nice performance kit, Clayton!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I think Clayton got one already. (LensPen)


 

 I'm sure he does. 
   
  I'm encouraging everyone else to check it out.  It's cheap and quite cool.
   
  (I like the sunglasses.)


----------



## Silent One

My own $2 cleaning kit.
   

   
   
  This month (hopefully) I will be polishing my Woo for the very first time in 15 month ownership. Jack recommended I use a water based metal cleaner/polisher like 'Twinkle.'


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My own $2 cleaning kit.
> 
> This month (hopefully) I will be polishing my Woo for the very first time in 15 month ownership. Jack recommended I use a water based metal cleaner/polisher like 'Twinkle.'


 

 Very simple, are you going to be taking out the tubes, and what about the letters? Just polish over them?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Very simple, are you going to be taking out the tubes, and what about the letters? Just polish over them?


 


  I will remove the tubes. And Jack said Twinkle was gentle, no worries, letters and all. Whatever the brand, must be (should be) fine and water based. Will post pix once accomplished... _no, once attempted! _





 Hope it comes out well. Then too, those seeking reassurance could approach Jack for maintenance (beauty) tips as well. My exchange was in early Spring, perhaps he hit upon something greater since then...


----------



## Rawrbington

the WA3 sounds more like the wa2 than the wa6/6se right?


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> I'm also leaning to something euphonic like the WA2 for recordings that require a less detailed presentation than one often obtains from the type of detail acquired from solid state.   For instance I have pretty much the entire catalog of Impulse Jazz.  Much of it Jazz from the 50's and 60's.  It was never meant to be experienced under the high resolution microscope todays gear can deliver.  All of it was mixed for speakers and even then not for the paradigm of todays playbacks systems.  Nevertheless the music was recorded and mixed to a high standard it's just that in most cases the tracks are better enjoyed when an amp delivers more of the emotion involved in the music than the type of detail we've come to crave as audiophiles.
> 
> So in essence I'm looking for a tube amp that delivers more of the emotional side of things and less of the cerebral.  Don't know if this makes much sense but it's the perspective I'd like to have for some of my collection.  For other types of music I definitely want to bath in the world of soundstage wonderment and minute detail.





Ella and Louis are significantly better on the WA2 compared to the Lyr. How much that has to do with phones I don't know - I use LCD-2s with the Lyr upstairs and T1 on the Woo downstairs. But the melodic Woo combo easily takes the cake for these two song birds. Awesome stuff.


Just got back from a weekend of stuffing myself with excellent Sichuan cuisine in Montreal and am working it off by listening to a little Lisa Ono, who is brilliant through woo.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> the WA3 sounds more like the wa2 than the wa6/6se right?


 

 Yes.  The 2 and 3 are OTL.  The 6 is transformer coupled.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Ella and Louis are significantly better on the WA2 compared to the Lyr. How much that has to do with phones I don't know - I use LCD-2s with the Lyr upstairs and T1 on the Woo downstairs. But the melodic Woo combo easily takes the cake for these two song birds. Awesome stuff.
> Just got back from a weekend of stuffing myself with excellent Sichuan cuisine in Montreal and am working it off by listening to a little Lisa Ono, who is brilliant through woo.


 


  It all sounds excellent to me, Pudu, both the food and exposure to a new artist. Will look her up later tonight... thanks!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I usually don't remove the tubes. I dust around the tubes if I can with a _microfiber cleaning cloth_ and blow the air with a hand-squeeze _Giottos Rocket Air Blaster_ (no accelerants, etc.).


 


  Are you me? I use the exact same blower to clean my stuff.
   
  My 596 tubes finally showed up in the mail, better late than never I guess. I swapped out the GZ34 black base I've been burning in for over 200 hours, and with the 596 in I let it burn in for three hours before a quick listen. Holy cow, this rectifier is amazing! I'm rather speechless at the moment, so have some pics:
   

   

   

   
  The slight purplish glow inside the plates is rather mesmerizing to look at, not to mention the sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Are you me? I use the exact same blower to clean my stuff.
> 
> My 596 tubes finally showed up in the mail, better late than never I guess. I swapped out the GZ34 black base I've been burning in for over 200 hours, and with the 596 in I let it burn in for three hours before a quick listen. Holy cow, this rectifier is amazing! I'm rather speechless at the moment, so have some pics:
> 
> ...


 


  C'est fantastique, kchew!!!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Glad to hear the '596' took great care of you! And the wait wasn't bad, all-things-considered.


----------



## kchew

Yes, considering the price and the sound it produces, two weeks is a very small price to pay. I actually asked my local tube stores if they have the 596, and all of them had a "What is that" look on their face heh.
   
  I wouldn't be using the 596 for too long this month though; I have a Brimar 5R4GY that I haven't tried yet and will swap it in tomorrow. Then after that the 596 might be my permanent rectifier. It's better to save the best for last right?


----------



## Lord Soth

LOL.
   
  I'm into photogrpahy too and have also used exactly the same cleaning equipment for both my Prosumer camera lens and Tube Hifi equipment.
  
  The Lenspen is really highly recommended for cleaning any glass surfaces.
  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> The modern lens cleaning tools of a photographer.
> 
> If you have not seen a LensPen, check it out.  It works astonishingly well.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Are you me? I use the exact same blower to clean my stuff.
> 
> My 596 tubes finally showed up in the mail, better late than never I guess. I swapped out the GZ34 black base I've been burning in for over 200 hours, and with the 596 in I let it burn in for three hours before a quick listen. Holy cow, this rectifier is amazing! I'm rather speechless at the moment, so have some pics:
> 
> ...


 


 Very nice pic, kchew.

  
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> Yes, considering the price and the sound it produces, two weeks is a very small price to pay. I actually asked my local tube stores if they have the 596, and _*all of them had a "What is that" look on their face heh.*_
> 
> I wouldn't be using the 596 for too long this month though; I have a Brimar 5R4GY that I haven't tried yet and will swap it in tomorrow. Then after that the 596 might be my permanent rectifier. It's better to save the best for last right?


 

 I like this statement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and can't agree more. Wait for your impression between the 596 and Brimar.


----------



## xinque

Trying to find an ECC32 since apparently everyone raves about the tube here.  Only vendor I can find online that stocks them is Tube World, but I have no idea what any of those #'s mean on the test data.  Anyone have an idea which pair I should get, or are they all pretty much the same?
   
  https://www.tubeworld.com/ecc32ecc33.htm


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I like this statement
> 
> ...


 


  I've put in just 4 hours on the 596 and 6 hours on the Brimar 5R4GY. Initial impressions: the 5R4GY is more upfront and intimate, but the soundstage is not as big or as 3D-like compared to the 596. The 596 is also smoother at this point and bass has more quantity and punch. These are with Tung Sol BGRP (round mica) and GEC 6AS7 squared-base. Once my rectifiers have clocked at least 200 hours each, I'd love to do an EML 5U4G mesh vs GZ34 vs CV378 vs CV378 big bottle vs Brimar 5R4GY vs USAF 596 shootout.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I've put in just 4 hours on the 596 and 6 hours on the Brimar 5R4GY. Initial impressions: the 5R4GY is more upfront and intimate, but the soundstage is not as big or as 3D-like compared to the 596. The 596 is also smoother at this point and bass has more quantity and punch. These are with Tung Sol BGRP (round mica) and GEC 6AS7 squared-base. Once my rectifiers have clocked at least 200 hours each, I'd love to do an EML 5U4G mesh vs GZ34 vs CV378 vs CV378 big bottle vs Brimar 5R4GY vs USAF 596 shootout.


 


 Nice finding and thanks, kchew. Much anticipate for the comparision with those rectifiers mentioned above, it should be very interesting though.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> It all sounds excellent to me, Pudu, both the food and exposure to a new artist. Will look her up later tonight... thanks!




Yes, in truth she is new to me as well. I heard her on my weekend travels for the first time.

If you'll permit, allow me to recommend Lazi ji as well. It's my favourite dish out of any cuisine. It's basically deep fried chicken pieces buried in a mountain of chili peppers and Sichuan peppercorns. And it's awesome. The best versions use quite small pieces of chicken, bones and all. It combines two key flavours - ma la - which is basically numbing and spicy. 

Sorry to go way way off topic here.


----------



## rydenfan

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Welcome! I too, started off my WA6SE journey with Miss Sophia. She really liked my Jazz tracks... _a lot!_


 


  SilentOne, what is/was your favorite tube compliment for the WA6SE? I will be driving LCD2.2's


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Yes, in truth she is new to me as well. I heard her on my weekend travels for the first time.
> If you'll permit, allow me to recommend Lazi ji as well. It's my favourite dish out of any cuisine. It's basically deep fried chicken pieces buried in a mountain of chili peppers and Sichuan peppercorns. And it's awesome. The best versions use quite small pieces of cSUBMIThicken, bones and all. It combines two key flavours - ma la - which is basically numbing and spicy.





> Sorry to go way way off topic here.


 


  sounds yummy!


----------



## runningman1960

Hi all,
  I am about to purchase the wa6se,(after alot of reading and an email or two to Jack). He recommended tube upgrades which I will take his advise on, but I noticed that no power cord comes with the amp, just a jumper between power source and amp. I asked Jack about a power cord that he might sell, but it seems alittle expensive. What do most people do that order the WA6-SE with regards to a power cord. All help is appreciated....


----------



## Wapiti

Any IEC cord will work.  I'm not a big believer in sonic differences occasioned by power cords, but try to use the shortest I can to minimize the inductive interaction with interconnects.
   
  Audio Advisor often has affordable cords available if you want to go the special cord route.  Otherwise these amps take little power so even a light cord will be more than adequate.


----------



## runningman1960

Thank you Wapiti,  I will go to Audio Adviser and look around.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I've put in just 4 hours on the 596 and 6 hours on the Brimar 5R4GY. Initial impressions: the 5R4GY is more upfront and intimate, but the soundstage is not as big or as 3D-like compared to the 596. The 596 is also smoother at this point and bass has more quantity and punch. These are with Tung Sol BGRP (round mica) and GEC 6AS7 squared-base. Once my rectifiers have clocked at least 200 hours each, I'd love to do an EML 5U4G mesh vs GZ34 vs CV378 vs CV378 big bottle vs Brimar 5R4GY vs USAF 596 shootout.


 


  This is by no means a simple comparison here,_ this is an event!_ A review worthy of good food & drink. Followed by shared comments among fellow Woo mates..._ "So, what were your thoughts on kchew's review?" _Thanks in advance for your extraordinary effort to bring us the information.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Yes, in truth she is new to me as well. I heard her on my weekend travels for the first time.
> If you'll permit, allow me to recommend Lazi ji as well. It's my favourite dish out of any cuisine. It's basically deep fried chicken pieces buried in a mountain of chili peppers and Sichuan peppercorns. And it's awesome. The best versions use quite small pieces of chicken, bones and all. It combines two key flavours - ma la - which is basically numbing and spicy.
> Sorry to go way way off topic here.


 


  I'm willing to bet your dish puts in you a very good mood to hear sounds from your Woo like you've never heard. Music is an emotional experience, why not make it work for you? (for those of you scoring at home, Silent One lives freely and meatless).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rydenfan said:


> SilentOne, what is/was your favorite tube compliment for the WA6SE? I will be driving LCD2.2's


 

 Currently, we like running the Raytheon 6SN7WGT-1949's with the USAF-596. With an occasionally rotating in the RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass tubes with either the EML 5U4G or USAF-596. I think most of the time with most of the songs, the EML Glass highlights the RCA's liquid mid-range a bit better than with the '596.' But still good with the latter.
   
  I continue to uncover new detail, or simply hear low level information better with the '596.' It's as if I'm better able to hear a little deeper into the recording. But I'm using re-cabled D7000's. And since I roll software music players in and out, they impact my tube preferences as well.
   
  My time with the LCD-2 v1 was complimented by the Raytheon/EML combo. Now, what I'd really like to try in my _WA 6 Special Edition (Silent One quietly looks in jc9394's general direction with a nod and a wink) _is a pair of National Union 6F8G's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The National Union's... paired with the United Electronics Company??? I'd melt faster than chocolate left outside a July picnic! (are you following this Glenn?)


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> but try to use the shortest I can to minimize the inductive interaction with interconnects.


 


  Yes, and Monoprice has one, two and three foot powercords of different gauges available for very cheap.
   
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10228

 And when I mean cheap, I mean CHEEEAAAP.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





runningman1960 said:


> Hi all,
> I am about to purchase the wa6se,(after alot of reading and an email or two to Jack). He recommended tube upgrades which I will take his advise on, but I noticed that no power cord comes with the amp, just a jumper between power source and amp. I asked Jack about a power cord that he might sell, but it seems alittle expensive. What do most people do that order the WA6-SE with regards to a power cord. All help is appreciated....


 

 I, for one (and perhaps others), appreciate the fact Woo Audio doesn't provide a power cord with his amps. It's quite likely I would've dismissed the throw away cord (that allows Mfg's to make a profit) and got my own anyway. Therefore, in my eyes Woo Audio is a "Green" company. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Experimenting with different power cords on three different devices, I concluded the single biggest impact was at the front-end (music server). Followed by the DAC and then the Woo. But they all benefited by higher quality power cords.
   
  My trial involved using combo's of stock cords on the music server & DAC, WireWorld Stratus*5 & Electra*5 power conditioning cords on all three. And several days... (21)


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> I'm willing to bet your dish puts in you a very good mood to hear sounds from your Woo like you've never heard. Music is an emotional experience, why not make it work for you? (for those of you scoring at home, Silent One lives freely and meatless).





You better believe it. If it's made properly, after a few bites your ears feel like they are swelling up and have a faint ringing in them. I do try to find it made with free range peppercorns, though.

Personally the power cord is the last thing I'll ever upgrade on my system. A power line filter I could perhaps justify but not the cord itself - as long as it isn't shorting out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> You better believe it. If it's made properly, after a few bites your ears feel like they are swelling up and have a faint ringing in them. I do try to find it made with free range peppercorns, though.
> Personally the power cord is the last thing I'll ever upgrade on my system. A power line filter I could perhaps justify but not the cord itself - as long as it isn't shorting out.


 


  Skeptical at first, I tried an OFC cord from WireWorld and then an OCC cord on my front-end - huge difference at the beginning of the chain of components! Not as dramatic at the Caboose (WA6SE)...


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> Skeptical at first, I tried an OFC cord from WireWorld and then an OCC cord on my front-end - huge difference at the beginning of the chain of components! Not as dramatic at the Caboose (WA6SE)...




Oh, I don't doubt that others will perceive a benefit. I just know my own perceptions well enough that it would be money down the drain for me. My personal philosophy is to save wampum on the small (and for me, probably inconsequential) upgrades so that I can eventually enjoy the big ones.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Oh, I don't doubt that others will perceive a benefit. I just know my own perceptions well enough that it would be money down the drain for me. My personal philosophy is to save wampum on the small (and for me, probably inconsequential) upgrades so that I can eventually enjoy the big ones.


 


  Agree, Pudu. It is my view that by spending less on the current configuration, I can save and actually get into a better amp sooner than later. This makes me a very conservative tube roller (17 tubes?).


----------



## Rawrbington

holy crap how are those power cords so cheap?


----------



## jc9394




----------



## WindyCityCy

PSA PWD2 is coming out later this month!  Who wants to take one for the team and test out this baby?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> PSA PWD2 is coming out later this month!  Who wants to take one for the team and test out this baby?


 


  Humm, $799 to upgrade it MKII.  I may just skip getting a tube tester.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 

  
  Soft & Warm Meets Seduction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  JC, these are some of the most beautiful photographs I've seen in this space! Curiously, what artist was flowing through all this audio goodness at the time of these shots?


----------



## rydenfan

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently, we like running the Raytheon 6SN7WGT-1949's with the USAF-596. With an occasionally rotating in the RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass tubes with either the EML 5U4G or USAF-596. I think most of the time with most of the songs, the EML Glass highlights the RCA's liquid mid-range a bit better than with the '596.' But still good with the latter.
> 
> I continue to uncover new detail, or simply hear low level information better with the '596.' It's as if I'm better able to hear a little deeper into the recording. But I'm using re-cabled D7000's. And since I roll software music players in and out, they impact my tube preferences as well.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Thanks so much for your reply. Where is the best place to order the 596 from? I previously asked Jack about running 6SN7's and he told me the 6SE cannot run them, is there something I am missing? I have a huge inventory of 6SN7's so I would love to be able to roll these in. I believe jc9394 is also located in Boston so perhaps we will have to get together...
   
  I roll music software as well and am currently using Pure Music without Lion because I like to take advantage of integer support on my Zodiac+ w/ Voltikus power supply.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> PSA PWD2 is coming out later this month!  Who wants to take one for the team and test out this baby?


 


  what is it?
  my google search yielded nothing


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Soft & Warm Meets Seduction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Thanks, it is either Diana or Patricia.   Cue up all their albums in the PWD for tonight's listening pleasures, most likely another sleepless night.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Soft & Warm Meets Seduction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  +1
   
  Gorgeous


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently, we like running the Raytheon 6SN7WGT-1949's with the USAF-596. With an occasionally rotating in the RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass tubes with either the EML 5U4G or USAF-596. I think most of the time with most of the songs, the EML Glass highlights the RCA's liquid mid-range a bit better than with the '596.' But still good with the latter.
> 
> I continue to uncover new detail, or simply hear low level information better with the '596.' It's as if I'm better able to hear a little deeper into the recording. But I'm using re-cabled D7000's. And since I roll software music players in and out, they impact my tube preferences as well.
> 
> ...


 


   
  Yes, the NU are great with 596 but that damn static is bugging me.  Not that I can heard it at my normal listen level, just bugs me that I knew it is there.
   
  Roll in TS5998, TS6F8G, and 596 last night and they do sound very well too.  But now with HD800, I'm enjoying the soft and slightly romantic sound of GEC6080, Brimar CV1988, and 596.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> holy crap how are those power cords so cheap?


 


 One of the mysteries of the world.
   
  The quality will be well worth the price.  I have purchase HDMI cables, 50 foot RCA digital cables and other things from them.  Quick, accurate service and high quality for the money.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, it is either Diana or Patricia.   Cue up all their albums in the PWD for tonight's listening pleasures, most likely another sleepless night.


 
   
   
  Sleepless nights ~
  
  This gives newcomers a closer look at audio addiction and one of the side effects.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> +1
> 
> Gorgeous


 


  I'm going to feature the 4-part series of shots as Wallpaper on one of my three computers. This will be comforting as the temperatures will soon start dropping a bit in California now that it's autumn. Those living in harsher climes, yeah we know, "dropping a bit" would be an understatement.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> PSA PWD2 is coming out later this month!  Who wants to take one for the team and test out this baby?


 

 Do you happen to have a link to more info?  I have been tempted to get the original one.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

and back on the power cord discussion. how much of a difference do good power cords make on the Woo?
   
  I have 2 audioquest power cords, one for my dac and one for my amp
   
  currently i have an NRG-2 connected to my DAC and  an  NRG X-3 connected to my amp.
   
  i switched them around before and don't believe i heard much of a difference.
   
  i know im a believer in cables, but i haven't had much experience with power cords 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  btw, hi silent!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, the NU are great with 596 but that damn static is bugging me.  Not that I can heard it at my normal listen level, just bugs me that I knew it is there.
> 
> Roll in TS5998, TS6F8G, and 596 last night and they do sound very well too.  But now with HD800, I'm enjoying the soft and slightly romantic sound of GEC6080, Brimar CV1988, and 596.


 


  Let's talk luxuries, shall we? I know exactly how you feel about the static, though. This past spring, my system became infected with a ground loop. But would only become noticeable starting at some 75%-85% of maximum volume. Whereby normal (for me) listening levels would be around 10% and cranking favorite passages 20% if I'm really feeling it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just knowing it was there became very annoying!
   
  Back to your wealth, you have far too many options to let the stress of one pair of 6F8G's bug you like they'll continue to do. _What you could do is..._


----------



## WindyCityCy

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/forum/viewthread/2621/P30/
   
   
  From Paul McGowan of PS Audio in Post #39 of forum listed above
   
  We are now planning to announce the Mark II version of the PWD on the 15th of the month, but I will (am) doing it here first.  I haven’t gathered all the details together yet so please don’t hammer me quite yet - but yes - it’s official, there will be a Mark II.
  Here’s what I will tell you.  The Mark II will consist of an entirely new digital input board, firmware update, new remote control and a Critical Link fuse.  These changes can pretty easily be handled by customers at home and we will make easy to use kits available for the upgrade. 
  Once upgraded, there will be zero difference between the Mark I and the Mark II, even down to the labeling.  We made sure this is the case so our loyal PS customers who own or are planning on owning a PWD will be taken care of.
  Pricing will be the same between the cost increase of buying a new Mark II or upgrading an existing Mark I.  However, we will have an early adopter pricing structure for Mark I owners who want to upgrade - so Mark I owners will save a few bucks doing the kit themselves.
  I will be leaking out the differences in pricing, features, etc. over the next few weeks.  Stay tuned.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and back on the power cord discussion. how much of a difference do good power cords make on the Woo?
> 
> I have 2 audioquest power cords, one for my dac and one for my amp
> 
> ...


 

  
  (_Silent One breaks his silence.._.) Hello Dubstep Girl!
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  A few posts up, I was trying to share that my own findings trying different combo's of power cords revealed the very first source in the  system was the biggest beneficiary. Next the DAC and then the amp (least noticeable). But all three improved some with quality cords. And everyone's setup will have a unique set of problems to solve.
   
  When I buy new gear , components and accessories, I like to revisit the replacements - and remove the new piece after an extended period of time passes (a month, two or three). To me, this is more telling than A/B attempts in the same session , day or week. 
   
  I could buy and install a new power cord for my Woo and discover it tunes my system just so... and it's just what my system needed. Ecstatic, I recommend you get it and quick for your 6 SE too! And you do. Install it, queue some music and sit back expecting to be wowed... and..._ "Merde!!!" _ Curious, PM's are sent to you that go _unnoticed... and unwanted._
   

 The USAF-596 on the other hand, I'll recommend that bad boy even if your amp was solid-state! And reason _"You may have a Woo Audio amp one day and you're going to need this."  _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> http://www.psaudio.com/ps/forum/viewthread/2621/P30/
> 
> 
> From Paul McGowan of PS Audio in Post #39 of forum listed above
> ...


 


  Have you rolled your fuse? HiTech Supreme? Furutech?? I wonder what fuse they went with for the Mark II...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> (_Silent One breaks his silence.._.) Hello Dubstep Girl!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i didn't ignore any of your pms!!! did i??!?? i would never!!!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I've never even heard a PWD.  I am firmly in the W4S camp but the new PWD2 sounds like a nice piece.  I really can't wait to hear some reviews on the PWD2/Bridge vs. the W4S DAC2/W4S Music Server.  I'm sure they both will sound fantastic thru the Woo of your choice!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i didn't ignore any of your pms!!! did i??!?? i would never!!!


 


  Nooooooo, that was a _"What if?"_ scenario. Well, I had to make it sound good!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I've never even heard a PWD.  I am firmly in the W4S camp but the new PWD2 sounds like a nice piece.  I really can't wait to hear some reviews on the PWD2/Bridge vs. the W4S DAC2/W4S Music Server.  I'm sure they both will sound fantastic thru the Woo of your choice!


 

 I love reviews... "_And in this corner._.."





   
  Good to see my W4S-WA-D7k brother posting in the 'Unite' thread again! Have you rolled any fuses into the Shoe-box (W4S)? My Woo has a Furutech and I'm thinking about the DAC. Perhaps, to cap the year with a small $75 tweak to the system (and go final - no more spending in 2011).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nooooooo, that was a _"What if?"_ scenario. Well, I had to make it sound good!


 


  oh ok


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I, for one (and perhaps others), appreciate the fact Woo Audio doesn't provide a power cord with his amps. It's quite likely I would've dismissed the throw away cord (that allows Mfg's to make a profit) and got my own anyway. Therefore, in my eyes Woo Audio is a "Green" company.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I changed out the stock cable for my DAC-2 with a Venom 3.  I was a non believer up until then.  After I plugged in the Venom 3 I became a believer.  I added another to the V200.  Now I'm crazy curious to see what other power cords might do.  SilentOne is right. The stock cables will probably just hang around and do nothing now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I changed out the stock cable for my DAC-2 with a Venom 3.  I was a non believer up until then.  After I plugged in the Venom 3 I became a believer.  I added another to the V200.  Now I'm crazy curious to see what other power cords might do.  SilentOne is right. The stock cables will probably just hang around and do nothing now.


 


  I'm very curious to try the Shunyata Venom 3. _Who doesn't like Big Black Snakes?!_ Some day I'll explore the upper reaches of the line, but the Venom is attractively priced for now. WarriorAnt, what was your power conditioning unit again (Make/model)?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I've never even heard a PWD.  I am firmly in the W4S camp but the new PWD2 sounds like a nice piece.  I really can't wait to hear some reviews on the PWD2/Bridge vs. the W4S DAC2/W4S Music Server.  I'm sure they both will sound fantastic thru the Woo of your choice!


 

 Oh you had to tempt me with the W4S Music Server, I had almost forgotten it's imminent arrival...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh ok


 


  On power cords, it sounds like you're doing just fine with AQ.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Oh you had to tempt me with the W4S Music Server, I had almost forgotten it's imminent arrival...


 


  I actually did! The whole affair was so low-key... Did anyone of us invest yet?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm very curious to try the Shunyata Venom 3. _Who doesn't like Big Black Snakes?!_ Some day I'll explore the upper reaches of the line, but the Venom is attractively priced for now. WarriorAnt, what was your power conditioning unit again (Make/model)?


 


  The APC H15 but I haven't tried it in my headphone rig yet (too lazy plus I'm repainting to rig room soon) I'm using it in my home theater set up.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/APC-H15BLK-1-5kVA-Power-Conditioner/dp/B000FBF08Q
   
   
   
  But recently I've been considering a straight Isolation transformer.  It's all up in there air...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The APC H15 but I haven't tried it in my headphone rig yet (too lazy plus I'm repainting to rig room soon) I'm using it in my home theater set up.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/APC-H15BLK-1-5kVA-Power-Conditioner/dp/B000FBF08Q
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks. Having just purchased the Monster Power Center at a discount, I remember being filled with satisfaction at the time not envy. Until you placed the APC H15 onto the dining room table and took the top off. On relocation of the box, as I remember it, removing the APC H15 from the Home Theater would have resulted in your abduction; held without music inside your own home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If the APC H15 improves the sound of my Woo, I might step up the listening sessions to nightly, as opposed to every third night. To be clear, my system sounds fine. But you know our type, are we ever really satisfied?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. Having just purchased the Monster Power Center at a discount, I remember being filled with satisfaction at the time not envy. Until you placed the APC H15 onto the dining room table and took the top off. On relocation of the box, as I remember it, removing the APC H15 from the Home Theater would have resulted in your abduction; held without music inside your own home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
   
  I have to rip it out of my home theater set up to listen to it with my rig, but then I sit down at the rig and I don't get up again...ever since I put my rig together I have accomplished ZERO as far as any other energy is concerned.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and back on the power cord discussion. how much of a difference do good power cords make on the Woo?
> 
> I have 2 audioquest power cords, one for my dac and one for my amp
> 
> ...


 


  Hey look, if you believe in cables, power cords should work for you.  If you don't believe in cables they will have no effect.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If the APC H15 improves the sound of my Woo, I might step up the listening sessions to nightly, as opposed to every third night. To be clear, my system sounds fine. But you know our type, are we ever really satisfied?


 
  LOL ikr?
   
  i just recently bought a monster power conditioner myself, the hts 1650. they had a better model for sale, but im happy with this one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  a few months ago never thought my system would even get this far.
   
  im just gonna keep upgrading components and buying new headphones over time.
   
  for now my cable upgrades and whatnot are finally over. all i need is LCD-2 and T1 and I think i'll be set for a good long time (that is until the upgrade bug bites me again)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have to rip it out of my home theater set up to listen to it with my rig, but then I sit down at the rig and I don't get up again...ever since I put my rig together I have accomplished ZERO as far as any other energy is concerned.


 

 wow looks pretty big. like it definitely means business!


----------



## sillysally

Your best bang for the buck power cord would be a Iron Lung Jellyfish, imo.
  If you want to go high end then a Blacksands V1 violet power cord, imo
  The high end PS audio power cords I had were junk.
  I still have not been able to get a good match for my Nordost Vishnu power cord, except for my Pioneer BD player that I no longer use.
  The biggest difference that a power cord will make is for your source player, your amp and dac not so much.
  As for power re generator the PS audio P5 or P10 do a nice job, other wise all you need is a surge protector.
   
  The only time I would recommend a high end power cord or something like a PS audio P5/P10 is if you have a high end audio system that is very neutral and revealing and you want to get every last drop of performance out of your audio system. But understand these types of high price tweaks are not a good bang for the buck.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> LOL ikr?
> 
> i just recently bought a monster power conditioner myself, the hts 1650. they had a better model for sale, but im happy with this one
> 
> ...


 

 A Zeus re-cabled T1 is what I'd like to audition right now. Wonder how it would sound with my WA 6 SE? If you have your way, you'll be able to tell me soon! Thanks in advance for sharing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A Zeus re-cabled T1 is what I'd like to audition right now. Wonder how it would sound with my WA 6 SE? If you have your way, you'll be able to tell me soon! Thanks in advance for sharing.


 


  if i buy T1s i probably wouldn't recable them, too expensive lol
   
  and my ultrasone pro 900s should arrive in the mail sometime tomorrow :


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Your best bang for the buck power cord would be a Iron Lung Jellyfish, imo.
> If you want to go high end then a Blacksands V1 violet power cord, imo
> The high end PS audio power cords I had were junk.
> I still have not been able to get a good match for my Nordost Vishnu power cord, except for my Pioneer BD player that I no longer use.
> ...


 


  Well said, sillysally. I too, found that replacing the power cord on my front-end had the biggest impact.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> if i buy T1s i probably wouldn't recable them, too expensive lol
> 
> and my ultrasone pro 900s should arrive in the mail sometime tomorrow :


 


  Once you pull up Tracking Info tomorrow morning and read "Out for Delivery" STOP checking! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bet you keep looking over at your Woo overnight, wondering _"So, how will it sound?"_


----------



## sillysally

For you guys that are looking to buy a LCD-2, there should be some very good deals on used LCD-2 (v1 orv 2) now that the LCD-3's will start shipping this Friday. I am seeing more folks are starting to list there LCD-2's and getting the LCD-3's.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> For you guys that are looking to buy a LCD-2, there should be some very good deals on used LCD-2 (v1 orv 2) now that the LCD-3's will start shipping this Friday. I am seeing more folks are starting to list there LCD-2's and getting the LCD-3's.


 


  The problem with the LCDs is that they made too many changes in too short a time to retain their value.  They have been a work in progress and not a finished product like the T-1s or the HD 800s.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> The problem with the LCDs is that they made too many changes in too short a time to retain their value.  They have been a work in progress and not a finished product like the T-1s or the HD 800s.


 

 imo every headphone is a work in progress, and yes there have been a lot of complaining from the LCD camp about the new LCD-3's coming out at a cost of 2K.
  I have never owned the LCD-2 so I don't know where the truth lies, however Audeze will be shipping me a new pair of there LCD-3 this Friday, so I guess I will find out how good they really are on my audio systems and my ears.
   
  As far as the HD800's I have a pair and imo they are over rated my HE6's blows my HD-800's away, but at the time the HD800's first came out I did enjoy them.
   
  As we know the only real way of telling how well a headphone sounds is on your ears and using your system in a quite room with very good source material and of-course that's saying your rig can do justice for the headphone you are using.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> From Paul McGowan of PS Audio in Post #39 of forum listed above
> <snip>


 

 Thanks!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> The only time I would recommend a high end power cord or something like a PS audio P5/P10 is if you have a high end audio system that is very neutral and revealing and you want to get every last drop of performance out of your audio system. But understand these types of high price tweaks are not a good bang for the buck.


 

 Agreed.  I have a P Audio regenerator.  It is a great unit, but expensive.  I am fortunate to have my own 32kV to 240V transformer on my property.  Between this and my PS Audio unit my power is great.  This may be why I don't find any difference with power cords, although I am not much of a believer in such things.  Yet it is always fun playing with such things, even when we know our efforts are better placed elsewhere.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





upstateguy said:


> Hey look, if you believe in cables, power cords should work for you.  If you don't believe in cables they will have no effect.


 





   
  Very true.


----------



## rydenfan

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently, we like running the Raytheon 6SN7WGT-1949's with the USAF-596. With an occasionally rotating in the RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass tubes with either the EML 5U4G or USAF-596. I think most of the time with most of the songs, the EML Glass highlights the RCA's liquid mid-range a bit better than with the '596.' But still good with the latter.
> 
> I continue to uncover new detail, or simply hear low level information better with the '596.' It's as if I'm better able to hear a little deeper into the recording. But I'm using re-cabled D7000's. And since I roll software music players in and out, they impact my tube preferences as well.
> 
> ...


 
   

 Thanks so much for your reply. Where is the best place to order the 596 from? I previously asked Jack about running 6SN7's and he told me the 6SE cannot run them, is there something I am missing? I have a huge inventory of 6SN7's so I would love to be able to roll these in. I believe jc9394 is also located in Boston so perhaps we will have to get together...
  
 I roll music software as well and am currently using Pure Music without Lion because I like to take advantage of integer support on my Zodiac+ w/ Voltikus power supply.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Let's talk luxuries, shall we? I know exactly how you feel about the static, though. This past spring, my system became infected with a ground loop. But would only become noticeable starting at some 75%-85% of maximum volume. Whereby normal (for me) listening levels would be around 10% and cranking favorite passages 20% if I'm really feeling it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Have no worries, I will burn them in for you while I'm searching for this puppy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Have no worries, I will burn them in for you while I'm searching for this puppy.


 


_"Oh My!"_  - Dick Enberg


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rydenfan said:


> Thanks so much for your reply. Where is the best place to order the 596 from? I previously asked Jack about running 6SN7's and he told me the 6SE cannot run them, is there something I am missing? I have a huge inventory of 6SN7's so I would love to be able to roll these in. I believe jc9394 is also located in Boston so perhaps we will have to get together...
> 
> I roll music software as well and am currently using Pure Music without Lion because I like to take advantage of integer support on my Zodiac+ w/ Voltikus power supply.


 

 USAF-596 at vacuumtubes.net; approximately $30. I'm sure Jack may have a new rhyme or reason why he'd prefer WA6SE owners not run 6SN7 series, but I don't know what that would be. I approached him a little over a year ago about tube options - I asked about using 6FD7's and 6SN7's. He informed me that my amp shipped post 17 April 2010 and could run 6FD7's. And if I wanted to run 6SN7's, I would need adapters (however, no problem). I bought my adapters from 2359glenn, who frequents this thread - send him a PM.
   
  I was extremely hesitant about leaving Snow Leopard for Lion, because I had become accustomed to _Hog mode & Integer non-mixable streams_ for my W4S DAC. But getting the '596' changed everything, taking my sound up a level. So then, I decided to upgrade for an opportunity to squeeze whatever I could out of the new cat. My Woo certainly deserves the effort (the chase).
   
  There are trade offs - Lion brings more detail and a more open sound but Apple won't let us audiophiles hog the audio drivers; play non-mixable streams. But I have Lion on the internal SSD and Snow Leopard running on the HDD so I have options, including dual booting off the better sounding solid state drive. Currently using Amarra and rotating  Pure Music & Audirvana in on a part-time basis. 
   
  Love your Zodiac/Voltikus action!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my ultrasone pro 900s.
   
  burning in right now.
   
  first of all, wow, the packaging, the carrying case, and the accessories are one of the best presentations i've seen for a pair of headphones.
   
  second, omg.  the bass is ridiculous, its definitely enough to satisfy the basshead in me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the bass is always clean and while not as natural sounding as the hd 650s for example, its always strong and seems to have no end.
   
  third, these are kinda bright, but it doesn't really hurt. perhaps its my tubes which seem to make the highs as smooth as butter on my headphones.
   
  fourth, i tried plugging them into my ipod,  they definitely need an amp, without my woo,  i hear recessed mids and a muffled overall sound as well as less bass.
   
  i love them though! they look really cool too with the shiny cups and all. they seem very rugged, ever sturdier than my beyers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got my ultrasone pro 900s.
> 
> burning in right now.
> 
> ...


 

 Roll 'em Dubstep Girl, let's jump for joy!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rydenfan said:


> Thanks so much for your reply. Where is the best place to order the 596 from? I previously asked Jack about running 6SN7's and he told me the 6SE cannot run them, is there something I am missing? I have a huge inventory of 6SN7's so I would love to be able to roll these in. I believe jc9394 is also located in Boston so perhaps we will have to get together...
> 
> I roll music software as well and am currently using Pure Music without Lion because I like to take advantage of integer support on my Zodiac+ w/ Voltikus power supply.


 


  The 6SN7 is fine in a 6SE if you use an adapter specifically made for the purpose.  They have resistors in them which limit the voltage to the tubes, otherwise the amp would burn a 6SN7 up pretty fast.  2359glenn on the forum here makes quality adapters, so as SilentOne mentioned I'd shoot him a PM.


----------



## PanamaRed

I'm happy to report that my newest buddy for my WA22 is a Rega P5 turntable. This will be my first turntable since this one (true story):
   

   
  I decided to go with the P5 because it gets pretty good reviews and Rega seems to be changing the model to a RP5 (much like the RP3). Hence, the remaining P5's are being sold at a big discount.
   
  Now begins a new hobby ... buying vinyl.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think i've changed my mind and decided to go with a wa6se instead of wa2.
  the 6 just seems more versatile and more detailed.


----------



## JoeyO.

Hey folks, I've been having a tiny issue with my Sophia lately on my WA6.  She's pretty fickle as far as how she's placed into the tube socket, it seems.  Sometimes I'll power the amp on and it won't light up.  I'll flick off the power quick, adjust, and keep doing it until I've found the right position for it.  Am I doing something wrong with it?  I push it down from the top but it seems like it needs to be tilted ever-so-slightly to one "corner."
   
  Anyone else had any such issue with their tubes?


----------



## Rawrbington

i haven't had that problem but i don't have a 274B.  i would think that is killing the lifespan of the other tubes.
  i believe the power up phase of a tube is its more stressfull


----------



## Wapiti

Sounds like a grubby pin.  Try a little fine sandpaper until the pins are nice and shiny.
   
  Also be sure that the tube is pushed _all _the way into the socket.


----------



## Rawrbington

one of the things that i have been very impressed with in the woo is how cool it runs.  cool might not be the best descriptor but they really don't get hot, more like warm, especially for a tube amp


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I'm happy to report that my newest buddy for my WA22 is a Rega P5 turntable. This will be my first turntable since this one (true story):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Audiophile parents out there, _start 'em early and often!  _A bigger consumer market should lead to lower prices.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think i've changed my mind and decided to go with a wa6se instead of wa2.
> the 6 just seems more versatile and more detailed.


 


  Cheers, from a _WA 6 Special Edition_ owner!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> one of the things that i have been very impressed with in the woo is how cool it runs.  cool might not be the best descriptor but they really don't get hot, more like warm, especially for a tube amp


 


  Sounds like WA3 owners have it made in the shade. I received my WA6SE during the month of July and it was anything but cool! With stock 6EW7 tubes and Sophia Princess, it ran hot like the Devil! Only when I made the switch to 6SN7 tubes, did things get cool. Initially, I found the normal operating temperature to be so cool, I was suspicious!!!


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> Audiophile parents out there, _start 'em early and often!  _A bigger consumer market should lead to lower prices.




Especially on those NOS tubes.


----------



## Silent One

I was just having a post-dinner dialogue with myself (in silence). And thinking of ways I might would like to contact the General Accounting Office with a vacuum tube inquiry. As a taxpayer, I have a right to help my Uncle find lost or misplaced goods.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Cheers, from a _WA 6 Special Edition_ owner!


 


  +1


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





panamared said:


>


 
  My audiophile addiction started when I was 5 years old.  It started with a gateway player just like the one above.   I'd get up around 6AM and toss a 45 onto the player from my older sisters collection and thus it began, always punctuated by the "TURN THAT DOWN!" demands from the parental units.  A demand that continued onward throughout the 60's and a bit into the early 70's.  My college years at R.I.T were completely devoid of music because  I was totally broke and only had a copy of Tom Waits "nighthawks at the Diner" on cassette in my beat up chevy Nova and more often than not it would not play.  After graduating I knew my renewed sonic addiction would draw the same complaint to turn down the volume from any neighbors dwelling in the same building as myself so I decided then and there to alleviate that element and always rent a house until I could finally buy one.


----------



## Silent One

Was is it about music emotionally - good music doesn't sound loud enough, bad music sounding w-a-y too loud?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My audiophile addiction started when I was 5 years old.  It started with a gateway player just like the one above.   I'd get up around 6AM and toss a 45 onto the player from my older sisters collection and thus it began, always punctuated by the "TURN THAT DOWN!" demands from the parental units.  A demand that continued onward throughout the 60's and a bit into the early 70's.  My college years at R.I.T were completely devoid of music because  I was totally broke and only had a copy of Tom Waits "nighthawks at the Diner" on cassette in my beat up chevy Nova and more often than not it would not play.  After graduating I knew my renewed sonic addiction would draw the same complaint to turn down the volume from any neighbors dwelling in the same building as myself so I decided then and there to alleviate that element and always rent a house until I could finally buy one.


 


  Great story and motivation!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great story and motivation!


 


  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> Hey folks, I've been having a tiny issue with my Sophia lately on my WA6.  She's pretty fickle as far as how she's placed into the tube socket, it seems.  Sometimes I'll power the amp on and it won't light up.  I'll flick off the power quick, adjust, and keep doing it until I've found the right position for it.  Am I doing something wrong with it?  I push it down from the top but it seems like it needs to be tilted ever-so-slightly to one "corner."
> 
> Anyone else had any such issue with their tubes?


 


  Update: Did a good cleaning of the pins resolve your issue? By chance, does your Woo have Teflon tube sockets?


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Trying to find an ECC32 since apparently everyone raves about the tube here.  Only vendor I can find online that stocks them is Tube World, but I have no idea what any of those #'s mean on the test data.  Anyone have an idea which pair I should get, or are they all pretty much the same?
> 
> https://www.tubeworld.com/ecc32ecc33.htm


 

 Hi Xinque,
   
  I have ever purchased tubes from tube world before.
   
  Those #s are the test data readings from each section of the dual triodes.
   
  If possible, try to purchase those tubes whose readings are closest to one another.
  You will also notice that such tubes are also slightly more expensive.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





lord soth said:


> Hi Xinque,
> 
> I have ever purchased tubes from tube world before.
> 
> ...


 

 I will be careful on ECC32 on WA5, Danny (OP) have issue with them.  Maybe he just have a bad pair.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will be careful on ECC32 on WA5, Danny (OP) have issue with them.  Maybe he just have a bad pair.


 

 I was wondering about that when I read this statement on that site:
   
*ECC32=CV181 Mullard Specifications (not an exact 6SN7GT substitute)*
 (6.3V @ 950ma Filament, Maximum ratings: Vplate=300V, Iplate=50ma, Vfil-cathode=50V, Pwatts=5)
 (Typical operation: Vplate=250V, Vgrid = -4.6V, Iplate=6ma, Gm=2300, Mu=32, Rplate=14Kohms, Rk=750 ohms)
   
  To those who can decipher the above specs, it may explain why.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was wondering about that when I read this statement on that site:
> 
> *ECC32=CV181 Mullard Specifications (not an exact 6SN7GT substitute)*
> (6.3V @ 950ma Filament, Maximum ratings: Vplate=300V, Iplate=50ma, Vfil-cathode=50V, Pwatts=5)
> ...


 


  that is the reason I skip it and use the money for a beta22.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody know where to find the output impedance for any of the woos?
   
  how do the Denon 2000s sound on the 6SE?
  what about 600 ohm beyers?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> that is the reason I skip it and use the money for a beta22.


 
   
  And that is $$$ well-spent! Your new balanced SWA β22/σ22 built by Corey Warner is a piece of art and will certainly compliment your WA22 with 596 tube! Warner & Woo!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody know where to find the output impedance for any of the woos?
> 
> how do the Denon 2000s sound on the 6SE?
> what about 600 ohm beyers?


 


  Besides their website? (8-600 ohms). Dubstep Girl addresses the Beyer question in post #15160.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how do the Denon 2000s sound on the 6SE?
> what about 600 ohm beyers?


 

 Denons sound good on the 6SE. Their kind of tubby bass really tightens up.
   
  600 ohm Beyers sound good on the 6SE, but not as good as they do on the WA2.


----------



## Rawrbington

i mean the actual impedance of the output.  not the range of headphones that are compatible with it.  i  haven't been able to find it posted anywhere


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was wondering about that when I read this statement on that site:
> 
> *ECC32=CV181 Mullard Specifications (not an exact 6SN7GT substitute)*
> (6.3V @ 950ma Filament, Maximum ratings: Vplate=300V, Iplate=50ma, Vfil-cathode=50V, Pwatts=5)
> ...


 

 I don't know what amplifier the OP has, but the Mullard ECC32s are wonderful in my WA22. I have two pair and they sound as good...no, better than my Tung Sol BG oval plates. I've run them for months without incident.
   
  Jack Wu has taken the time to post this compatability chart; https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
   
  FWIW and IMHO, I would suggest that the OP rely on this chart, not anecdotal evidence posted on this forum.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i mean the actual impedance of the output.  not the range of headphones that are compatible with it.  i  haven't been able to find it posted anywhere


 


  hes right, someone else on my headphone comparison thread asked me about it earlier.
   
  i have no idea and i don't think woo has made any official release on that information.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I don't know what amplifier the OP has, but the Mullard ECC32s are wonderful in my WA22. I have two pair and they sound as good...no, better than my Tung Sol BG oval plates. I've run them for months without incident.
> 
> Jack Wu has taken the time to post this compatability chart; https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
> 
> FWIW and IMHO, I would suggest that the OP rely on this chart, not anecdotal evidence posted on this forum.


 

 OP, Danny, have a WA5LE.  I'm sure the ECC32 probably the best driver tubes for WA22 or WA5 but me just trying to be careful and use my money wisely.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i mean the actual impedance of the output.  not the range of headphones that are compatible with it.  i  haven't been able to find it posted anywhere


 


  Thanks for clarifying. I just checked the manual. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  No more info disclosed there than the website. However, Jack is very good and very quick to tech questions. I'd be interested in learning what you find. Additionally, how you'll use this info. As a fellow owner, you might be onto to something..._ I don't want to miss out (or Dubstep Girl)._
   
  Viva La WA6SE owners!


----------



## Rawrbington

the output impedance can give me an idea of the damping factor and overall control the amps will have over different impedance cans.  im especially interested in the WA2.  because if its low enough then it should drive lower imp cans fairly well.  and if it can then i'll probably go that route.  im jsut worried about its versatility


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i saw on one review that the WA2 is great for any impedance. while better for higher impedance, it does a good job with grados and other lower impedance cans even iems.


----------



## Silent One

Some nights, I wonder what a 600 ohm can would sound like on my 6 SE. And would it return a blacker background than a lower impedance can... say, 575 ohms lower.


----------



## nututubes

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> OP, Danny, have a WA5LE.  I'm sure the ECC32 probably the best driver tubes for WA22 or WA5 but me just trying to be careful and use my money wisely.


 

  
  I understand, I hope I didn't sound judgmental. I wanted to remind our members about Jack's compatiblity chart.


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> I will be careful on ECC32 on WA5, Danny (OP) have issue with them.  Maybe he just have a bad pair.



The ECC32 are in the compatibility chart that Jack published for the WA5 and WA5-LE. I own the WA5-LE and two different pairs of ECC32 (brown base and black base) purchased from two different sellers and have no problems with them. I am sure if Jack even thought those tubes could be a problem they won't be published in the list.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Some nights, I wonder what a 600 ohm can would sound like on my 6 SE. And would it return a blacker background than a lower impedance can... say, 575 ohms lower.


 


  i didn't notice much of a difference with my 990s as far as noise, haven't tested it tho.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i didn't notice much of a difference with my 990s as far as noise, haven't tested it tho.


 

 Thanks. Perhaps, it would be more efficient if I took my rig out on the road for a mini-meet and stick all kinds of cans inside my Woo (but not carelessly, mind you).


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Some nights, I wonder what a 600 ohm can would sound like on my 6 SE. And would it return a blacker background than a lower impedance can... say, 575 ohms lower.


 


  I've owned T1, DT880/600 and DT990/600. With the 6SE...
   

 T1 sounded great. Not as balanced and sweet as with the WA2, but still quite nice. T1s sound more like HD800s on the 6SE than I've experienced with other tube amps.
 DT880/600 sounded overly clinical to my ear, kind of approaching K702 territory. I much preferred the 880s with a warmer amp, including the Mapletree.
 DT990/600 sounded nice but not excellent. The 6SE really tightened up the 990's bass, but I felt that the recessed mids were somewhat accentuated by the 6SE (especially in comparison with other tube amps). The DT990s presented an amping challenge -- if you wanted bass but not balance, the 6SE worked fine. If you wanted sweetness and balance, something like an Ear+ HD delivers, but at the expense of bass quality.
   
  All exhibited a nicely black background and low noise floor. Hope this helps...
   
  EDIT: Let me emphasize that none of these headphones sounded bad with the 6SE (just better in some ways than others) and that the opinions above are entirely based on my personal listening preferences. I know and respect the opinions of Head-Fi'ers who feel quite differently about these combinations.


----------



## Rawrbington

Jack responded to my question but didn't provide any output impedance numbers.
  he said the 2 pushes most low impedance cans well unless they are notoriously difficult to drive.
  he said both the 6se and 2 will drive denons, low imp beyers and grados  very well.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Jack responded to my question but didn't provide any output impedance numbers.
> he said the 2 pushes most low impedance cans well unless they are notoriously difficult to drive.
> he said both the 6se and 2 will drive denons, low imp beyers and grados  very well.


 

 This matches my experience as well.
   
  As I've mentioned in other places, I've never had a problem with the WA2's ability to drive anything (even the HE-6 sounds passable). It's more of a question of synergy between amp and can sound signatures.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Jack responded to my question but didn't provide any output impedance numbers.
> he said the 2 pushes most low impedance cans well unless they are notoriously difficult to drive.
> he said both the 6se and 2 will drive denons, low imp beyers and grados  very well.


 


  I could see where knowing the numbers would prove more useful, as another generation of cans flood the market, you'll be right back at square one. Unsure about the number's non-published status.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When I got my pair of ECC32's I emailed Jack directly and he said they could be used as drivers for the WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I've owned T1, DT880/600 and DT990/600. With the 6SE...
> 
> 
> T1 sounded great. Not as balanced and sweet as with the WA2, but still quite nice. T1s sound more like HD800s on the 6SE than I've experienced with other tube amps.
> ...


 

 This helps in a BIG way! Plus, I don't really like to disturb my cables at rest in the system unless it's absolutely necessary. Guess we'll continue to dust and continue to play.




   
  Reply-to-edit: Your personal preference is understood. But your knowledge and experience with these cans is more than I have (none). Your contribution brings light to the matter.


----------



## Silent One

Members Lounge ~
   
  Name your best audio decisions for 2011 here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/579514/name-your-best-audio-decisions-for-2011#post_7880024


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was wondering about that when I read this statement on that site:
> 
> *ECC32=CV181 Mullard Specifications (not an exact 6SN7GT substitute)*
> (6.3V @ 950ma Filament, Maximum ratings: Vplate=300V, Iplate=50ma, Vfil-cathode=50V, Pwatts=5)
> ...


 


   
  I think dannie's experience was a fluke, hopefully.  The two important takeaway numbers here are the filament current draw @ 950ma which is 50% higher than a 6SN7, and the Mu factor of 32 vs. the 6SN7 @ 20.  The former is the reason so many warnings are attached to these tubes.  Transformers designed specifically for use with a 6SN7 might not cope with the higher current draw and could go up in smoke.  The second figure just means the tube has a higher gain factor, and given the same position on the volume knob the music will be playing louder with an ECC32 than it would be with a 6SN7.  I think higher gain at the drivers also carries the possibility of making any audible noise in the signal path louder too.  Some people wonder if the loudness is part of the reason why these tubes are perceived to be so good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think dannie's experience was a fluke, hopefully.  The two important takeaway numbers here are the filament current draw @ 950ma which is 50% higher than a 6SN7, and the Mu factor of 32 vs. the 6SN7 @ 20.  The former is the reason so many warnings are attached to these tubes.  Transformers designed specifically for use with a 6SN7 might not cope with the higher current draw and could go up in smoke.  The second figure just means the tube has a higher gain factor, and given the same position on the volume knob the music will be playing louder with an ECC32 than it would be with a 6SN7.  I think higher gain at the drivers also carries the possibility of making any audible noise in the signal path louder too.  Some people wonder if the loudness is part of the reason why these tubes are perceived to be so good.


 

  
  +2
   
  Glenn was just sharing with me last week his preference for a lower 'Mu' tube, so turning up the volume control further would get more of the nasty volume pot out of the circuit. _And we all know how much Silent One loves his silence!  _


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I also love silent with great dynamic range I generally prefer a higher input level to the amp that goes to a lower gain driver tube rather than a lower input level to a higher gain tube. The helps to maintain S/N ratio. I have DAC,s like the RDL HR-DAC1  that have adjustable pro level outputs working in the analog domain going into the amp. This arrangement works well with me and the dynamic range not loundness of the music is terrific with this setup.[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]I also love silent with great dynamic range I generally prefer a higher input level to the amp that goes to a lower gain driver tube rather than a lower input level to a higher gain tube. The helps to maintain S/N ratio. I have DAC,s like the RDL HR-DAC1  that have adjustable pro level outputs working in the analog domain going into the amp. This arrangement works well with me and the dynamic range not loundness of the music is terrific with this setup.[/size]


 


  Someone who knows what I like... and understands me. _Are you free for my next arbitration hearing?_


----------



## Rawrbington

i think jack talked me back into the WA2.
  sorry guys.  i just desire that tube sound and warm midrange.   but if i ever come to a place where the WA2 doesn't get the job done i'll just sell it if i could find a buyer and pick up a 6SE


----------



## WindyCityCy

Can someone tell me what the height of the 596 tube is with Glenn's adapter installed?  Would be good to know the ht to the top of the tube and also to the top of the connected adapter wires.  I may have to do a major rearrangement to use this bad boy as I have limited height in my rack.  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think jack talked me back into the WA2.
> sorry guys.  i just desire that tube sound and warm midrange.   but if i ever come to a place where the WA2 doesn't get the job done i'll just sell it if i could find a buyer and pick up a 6SE


 

 Your next addition will still have you standing among your Woo Audio brothers & sisters. A fine choice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Can someone tell me what the height of the 596 tube is with Glenn's adapter installed?  Would be good to know the ht to the top of the tube and also to the top of the connected adapter wires.  I may have to do a major rearrangement to use this bad boy as I have limited height in my rack.  Thanks.


 


  I'm sitting in darkness... and silence. But let me help out! 6 inches from the top leads down to the base of my WA6SE. Or 9.5 inches total from bottom shelf to top of lead wire. Have you appx 12 inches?


----------



## WindyCityCy

Damn nothing is ever easy.  I have 6 1/4 from the top of my Woo to the shelf.  I only have about another 1/4-1/2 I can create without doing a major project.  Darkness and Woo sound like a terrific idea right now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Damn nothing is ever easy.  I have 6 1/4 from the top of my Woo to the shelf.  I only have about another 1/4-1/2 I can create without doing a major project.  Darkness and Woo sound like a terrific idea right now.


 


  From the top of the chassis or the top of the transformers? If the former, drill baby, drill! This tube is worth it!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Can someone tell me what the height of the 596 tube is with Glenn's adapter installed?  Would be good to know the ht to the top of the tube and also to the top of the connected adapter wires.  I may have to do a major rearrangement to use this bad boy as I have limited height in my rack.  Thanks.


 

 6 3/16 " by my measurement.  That is from the bottom of the tube to the top.


----------



## JoeyO.

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Update: Did a good cleaning of the pins resolve your issue? By chance, does your Woo have Teflon tube sockets?


 


  Thanks for the concern, SilentOne.  I've yet to try and clean them.. nervous about the sandpaper idea.  However, upon inspection of the pins it's like there's a little chip off one or two of them.  Not completely broken off but some metal is displaced.. it's hard to describe.  Maybe that's the issue?  I don't have much time to devote to Head-Fi / listening so I apologize for the delayed response.  As for the Teflon sockets, yes, I believe I do have them (it's the model that was made stock with PDPS so I'm assuming the Teflon was included).


----------



## WindyCityCy

Thanks for the quick reply guys.  It's going to be close as to whether she fits as is or I need to get to drillin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sounds like a good investment versus the EML which costs about the same as eating for a month!  My current EML has been going strong but always looking for a backup in case something should happen.  Anyway it sounds like the 596 could be promoted to starter based upon what other Woo owners have reported.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will be careful on ECC32 on WA5, Danny (OP) have issue with them.  Maybe he just have a bad pair.


 

  I think I'm not the only user of the ECC32 in a WA5 or WA5LE. Haven't heard anyone with the distortion what I was experienced. You maybe right, I'm just bad luck with these babies.
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And that is $$$ well-spent! Your new balanced SWA β22/σ22 built by Corey Warner is a piece of art and will certainly compliment your WA22 with 596 tube! Warner & Woo!


 

 I second that, it's a piece of art.
  
   
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I don't know what amplifier the OP has, but the Mullard ECC32s are wonderful in my WA22. I have two pair and they sound as good...no, better than my Tung Sol BG oval plates. I've run them for months without incident.
> 
> Jack Wu has taken the time to post this compatability chart; https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
> 
> FWIW and IMHO, I would suggest that the OP rely on this chart, not anecdotal evidence posted on this forum.


 


  Not sure the ECC32 is already listed in the chart but have read some impresions how good sounding of these tubes in the WA5 or WA5LE. Then I purchased a pair in premium, the most expensive output tubes ever bought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> OP, Danny, have a WA5LE.  I'm sure the ECC32 probably the best driver tubes for WA22 or WA5 but me just trying to be careful and use my money wisely.


 

 You did, I envy your new toy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I understand, I hope I didn't sound judgmental. I wanted to remind our members about Jack's compatiblity chart.


 
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> The ECC32 are in the compatibility chart that Jack published for the WA5 and WA5-LE. I own the WA5-LE and two different pairs of ECC32 (brown base and black base) purchased from two different sellers and have no problems with them. I am sure if Jack even thought those tubes could be a problem they won't be published in the list.


 

 I would think this is a single case of bad tube experience of a bad luck guy. Actually, before they went bad, they really sound wonderful and amazing with the WA5LE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Cheers and enjoy your music all you Woo lovers.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Thanks for the quick reply guys.  It's going to be close as to whether she fits as is or I need to get to drillin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You won't regret with the 596, it's a bargain back up and remember PM Glenn for a pair of adapters.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think jack talked me back into the WA2.
> sorry guys.  i just desire that tube sound and warm midrange.   but if i ever come to a place where the WA2 doesn't get the job done i'll just sell it if i could find a buyer and pick up a 6SE


 

 Can't wait to read how you like it!
   
  So you called Jack and what did he have to say about the differences between the two amps?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I second that, it's a piece of art.
> 
> You did, I envy your new toy.


 


  I'm only following your foot steps, be careful, I may show up in HK any moment (I wish)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_EDIT, the new toys is in route to me, should be in my hands on next Monday._
  
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You won't regret with the 596, it's a bargain back up and remember PM Glenn for a pair of adapters.


 

 X2, it is certainly the one of the best tube purchased I ever made.  I'm glad I get two instead of one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm only following your foot steps, be careful, I may show up in HK any moment (I wish)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 x3!!!
   
  The USAF-596 is one of the best tube purchases I made without a doubt! It was originally conceived as a backup. Then came some brief reviews (ALL positive!). Then my own listening with the tube. And the '596' would go on to steal the starting position from the EML Glass.
   
  Does your jumping for joy over your new toys signify BL-63's coming?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Thanks for the quick reply guys.  It's going to be close as to whether she fits as is or I need to get to drillin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 USAF-596
   
  It could be that the '596' is not for everyone. In the event it doesn't move you, I'll offer to take it off your hands at a fair price. And meet with you in Pleasanton/Dublin for Pizza to boot!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think jack talked me back into the WA2.
> sorry guys.  i just desire that tube sound and warm midrange.


 

 Excellent choice! 
   
  You appeared to be leaning in this direction.  You were wise to listen to your inner Woo.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Can't wait to read how you like it!
> 
> So you called Jack and what did he have to say about the differences between the two amps?


 


  just email.
  heres what he said:
   
  Thank you for your notes.

 Both WA2 and WA6-SE work with your headphones very well. The WA6-SE is a bit
 more flexible to match difficult-to-drive phones such as the Audeze LCD2/3,
 HiFi Man HE5/6/500. If you consider these phones down the road. The 6SE may
 be a better choice.

 The WA2 has similar sound characters as the WA3. You can expect the WA2 to
 have much greater power and produce a bigger sound. On the other hand, the
 6SE is neutral, and it has faster dynamic response.

 Please let me know if you have any other questions.
   
   
  the cans i asked about were low impedance cans, ultrasone denon and beyers.
   
  the only thing that im still worried about is that sometime in the next year or less i'd like to pick up a pair of LCD2's.  ive read some poeple say they are ok out of the WA2 and then others say they sound too veiled.
  but with the way woo stuff sells used i figure if i get the LCD2s and they just wont work then i could hock it for the WA6SE.
   
  but perhaps the T1 would be more attractive at that time.  who knows.  i just know that the warm tubeyness that the WA2  has is what im after at this time.  really i started this upgrade journey as soon as i heard my wa3 and knew i just wanted that sound with more balls.  so i should go for that.


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> i think jack talked me back into the WA2.
> sorry guys.  i just desire that tube sound and warm midrange.   but if i ever come to a place where the WA2 doesn't get the job done i'll just sell it if i could find a buyer and pick up a 6SE




It's an investment, but I have to say my WA2 is the single component that has brought me the most 'musical' joy. It makes listening to good music an incredibly passive (and I say that in a good way)and absorbing experience - you just sit back and let in flow into you. Love it.

What kind of music do you favour for the most part? For most classical, jazz and early recordings I prefer the WA2 to the Lyr or PB-2, which are the only other things I have to compare it too.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





pudu said:


> It's an investment, but I have to say my WA2 is the single component that has brought me the most 'musical' joy. It makes listening to good music an incredibly passive (and I say that in a good way)and absorbing experience - you just sit back and let in flow into you. Love it.
> What kind of music do you favour for the most part? For most classical, jazz and early recordings I prefer the WA2 to the Lyr or PB-2, which are the only other things I have to compare it too.


 

 I love my WA2. And I love the fact that it is also a preamp so when I switch to a speaker system, the WA2 comes along for the ride! The best of both worlds.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pudu said:


> It's an investment, but I have to say my WA2 is the single component that has brought me the most 'musical' joy. It makes listening to good music an incredibly passive (and I say that in a good way)and absorbing experience - you just sit back and let in flow into you. Love it.
> What kind of music do you favour for the most part? For most classical, jazz and early recordings I prefer the WA2 to the Lyr or PB-2, which are the only other things I have to compare it too.


 

 With which headphones?


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





pudu said:


> It's an investment, but I have to say my WA2 is the single component that has brought me the most 'musical' joy. It makes listening to good music an incredibly passive (and I say that in a good way)and absorbing experience - you just sit back and let in flow into you. Love it.
> What kind of music do you favour for the most part? For most classical, jazz and early recordings I prefer the WA2 to the Lyr or PB-2, which are the only other things I have to compare it too.


 

 i kinda know the musical joy you speak of.  i get a sense of that out of my 3.  just rich engulfing experience.
   
  i listen to rock, classic rock, blues, some jazz, indy, electronic and acoustic
   
   
  how does the lyr compare in richness and warmth, as well as detail/clarity and power?  SUBMIT
   
  What is this ^^ submit button? lol  does anyone else see that?


----------



## Silent One

Anyone in this thread ever use the EAT Cool Dampers? If so, what are your thoughts?


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> With which headphones?




I'm using it with T1's. The 880's/600 also sound better than ever with the Woo, though to be fair I was using them primarily with the STX amp for a couple of years and with not much else. 

The Lyr is connected to the LCDs - this pairing is fantastic for acoustic stuff, rock and for some symphonic pieces when I want to dig into the detail and pull the music apart a bit more. Both combos have a real wow factor but they are different. The wow on the LCDs hits you as soon as the music starts. The wow with the Woo builds up more gradually until you fell completely saturated with it. If I'm honest, the T1-Woo gets the lion's share of my listening time right now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i kinda know the musical joy you speak of.  i get a sense of that out of my 3.  just rich engulfing experience.
> 
> i listen to rock, classic rock, blues, some jazz, indy, electronic and acoustic
> 
> ...


 

 I thought you were asking us to vote!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I'm using it with T1's. The 880's/600 also sound better than ever with the Woo, though to be fair I was using them primarily with the STX amp for a couple of years and with not much else.
> The Lyr is connected to the LCDs - this pairing is fantastic for acoustic stuff, rock and for some symphonic pieces when I want to dig into the detail and pull the music apart a bit more. Both combos have a real wow factor but they are different. The wow on the LCDs hits you as soon as the music starts. The wow with the Woo builds up more gradually until you fell completely saturated with it. If I'm honest, the T1-Woo gets the lion's share of my listening time right now.


 
  "The wow with the Woo builds up more gradually until you fell completely saturated with it."  Are you also speaking of the Woo/LCD combo here?


----------



## Rawrbington

the great thing about the Lyr is i could afford to own that and the wa2 someday.
  where as having a wa2 and 6se or burson would just be out of the question.
  im _not_ that addicted...
   
   
   
   
  yet
  although even considering a $1000+ amp is far far beyond what i ever thought i'd do 2 years ago
   
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I thought you were asking us to vote!


 


  haha, i had some random arm spazm and jerked the mouse and clicked a weird button or something.
  and then i couldnt' get rid of it


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im _not_ that addicted...


 
   
   





    


  The bug bites softly at first...


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> i kinda know the musical joy you speak of.  i get a sense of that out of my 3.  just rich engulfing experience.
> 
> i listen to rock, classic rock, blues, some jazz, indy, electronic and acoustic
> 
> ...




I see your button but it wants me to type something when I press it.....

So here goes....

The Lyr is the detail clarity king - but I put it down to the cans. I feel like the LCDs are driving and the Lyr is along for the ride (providing a very very capable shotgun). It's the reverse with the WA2. The amp is in the driver's seat, creating that rich lusciousness and the T1's do a simply excellent job of passing it to your brain. 

Richness goes to the Woo, no contest. I don't want to say warmth, because it doesn't really colour it or make it darker, it just feels more enveloping. I don't get that same feeling with the Lyr-T1 pairing. 

Due to circumstances beyond my control, planning, and preference I ended up with the Lyr before any of the other equipment and I have to say I wasn't crazy about it with the 880's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> the great thing about the Lyr is i could afford to own that and the wa2 someday.
> where as having a wa2 and 6se or burson would just be out of the question.
> im _not_ that addicted...
> 
> ...


 


  Participation is high inside the number one thread at head-fi, mistake or no!


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> "The wow with the Woo builds up more gradually until you fell completely saturated with it."  Are you also speaking of the Woo/LCD combo here?




That should read:

"The wow with the Woo builds up more gradually until you *feel *completely saturated with it." 

or 

"The wow with the Woo builds up more gradually until you *fell over, *completely saturated with it."

Take your pick. 

I have only spent a little time with the WA2-LCD pairing. Thus far it hasn't supplied that lush fullness to the same extent as the T1, which may be why I have spent less time with it. I need to trade the cans for a dedicated week to be able to give an informed opinion though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I see your button but it wants me to type something when I press it.....
> So here goes....
> The Lyr is the detail clarity king - but I put it down to the cans. I feel like the LCDs are driving and the Lyr is along for the ride (providing a very very capable shotgun). It's the reverse with the WA2. The amp is in the driver's seat, creating that rich lusciousness and the T1's do a simply excellent of passing it to your brain.
> Richness goes to the Woo, no contest. I don't want to say warmth, because it doesn't really colour it or make it darker, it just feels more enveloping. I don't get that same feeling with the Lyr-T1 pairing.
> Due to circumstances beyond my control, planning, and preference I ended up with the Lyr before any of the other equipment and I have to say I wasn't crazy about it with the 880's.


 

 Really enjoyed your phrasing with that explanation...


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> the great thing about the Lyr is i could afford to own that and the wa2 someday.





Exactly. That's the way I went - to cover both bases. And I'm done now.

No, don't say it.... really I'm done.



Uh uh uh.... I said I'm done. All your powers of consumer suggestion have no effect.....



at the moment.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> Really enjoyed your phrasing with that explanation...




Thanks. Hopefully it will prevent you from noticing all the typos and missed words... it's getting late on the east side of the continent.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> just email.
> heres what he said:
> 
> Thank you for your notes.
> ...


 

 I wouldn't count on the WA6SE coming close to properly powering the HE6's, and from what I have read from other woo owners is that, you can do a lot better than a WA6
  SE or WA22 when using the LCD-2 and more than likely the LCD-3.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I'm in San Jose ... is there good pizza in pleasanton?  I moved here from Chicago 6 years ago and haven't had a good pizza since!  I just placed my order from Glenn for the 596 adapter and am hoping to close on a 596 very soon.  I had successfully lost my wallet to audio for about 6 months until today.  Always something ... So addictive ... this sport.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

after reading over this whole thread ive pretty much amde up my mind
   
  instead of buying t1/lcd2s next month, im gonna get t1 and wa2 lol.
   
  never thought i'd be buying 2 amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  if i dont like the WA2, i can simply sell it


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I'm in San Jose ... is there good pizza in pleasanton?  I moved here from Chicago 6 years ago and haven't had a good pizza since!  I just placed my order from Glenn for the 596 adapter and am hoping to close on a 596 very soon.  I had successfully lost my wallet to audio for about 6 months until today.  Always something ... So addictive ... this sport.


 


  Good Pizza in Pleasanton (Or Dublin)? I doubt it! But I'm greedy, and did read about a hand-tossed wood burnin' place that some of the tech army flocks to (Oracle & many other tech firm employees). A few summers ago (conservatively!), I had pizza at Giordano's on Rush Street with then Mayor Harold Washington. Chicago politics considered, he was a pretty cool cat. Best pizza in my days? 1) Brooklyn; 2) Connecticut; 3) Chicago. Maybe we meet someday, but don't expect great pizza in Cali!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can't wait to get your opinion on the '596.' This is the first tube I ever auditioned that gave me an immediate response. Other tubes need time to do whatever it is tubes do before gettin' nice and gettin' right! On your absence in this space, I thought you were away getting treatment for your audio addiction. And that it wasn't voluntary... you were pushed to find the help you needed!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good Pizza in Pleasanton (Or Dublin)? I doubt it! But I'm greedy, and did read about a hand-tossed wood burnin' place that some of the tech army flocks to (Oracle & many other tech firm employees). A few summers ago (conservatively!), I had pizza at Giordano's on Rush Street with then Mayor Harold Washington. Chicago politics considered, he was a pretty cool cat. Best pizza in my days? 1) Brooklyn; 2) Connecticut; 3) Chicago. Maybe we meet someday, but don't expect great pizza in Cali!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Chicago!!!!! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 - it has its flaws but i like it here


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> after reading over this whole thread ive pretty much amde up my mind
> 
> instead of buying t1/lcd2s next month, im gonna get t1 and wa2 lol.
> 
> ...


 


  Prediction! Dubstep Girl gets T1/WA2. Gets first session... _and gets dreamy.  _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Chicago!!!!! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 - it has its flaws but i like it here


 


  I use to work Summer CES at the McCormick Center - great memories there, audio, food, folks and so on.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I'm in San Jose ... is there good pizza in pleasanton?  I moved here from Chicago 6 years ago and haven't had a good pizza since!  I just placed my order from Glenn for the 596 adapter and am hoping to close on a 596 very soon.  I had successfully lost my wallet to audio for about 6 months until today.  Always something ... So addictive ... this sport.


 


 You are really going to love the 596.  And good luck with finding pizza that is as good as east of the Hudson.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 X2 on Brooklyn pizza.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> just email.
> heres what he said:
> 
> Thank you for your notes.
> ...


 


  Tonight, I followed up with Jack. And he kindly informed me (for future reference): The Output impedance of a _WA 6 Special Edition_ is 32 ohms at low output, 120 ohms at high output. The WA2 has an output of about impedance of 150 ohms.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I use to work Summer CES at the McCormick Center - great memories there, audio, food, folks and so on.


 


  funny how the first good memory was audio


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> X2 on Brooklyn pizza.


 


  I spent a few months living in Brooklyn (seeking work) and sustained myself on pizza - my dollars went far! NYC Subway has 130 miles of tracks. And I had pizza up and down nearly every turn.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yummy but not too healthy


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> funny how the first good memory was audio


 


  For me, as great as video is and especially when accompanied by music, if I had to choose between the two (audio/video) audio would win hands down! Every time!!! Because one has the luxury of closing their eyes gives audio a huge advantage in my view. If I need something to look at during emotional passages in music, I'll look at the glow of my tubes.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> X2 on Brooklyn pizza.


 

 My last name is Lombardi. I'm from NY. My Italian ancestors are from Naples Italy.
   
  http://www.firstpizza.com/
   
  http://www.passion-4-pizza.com/new_york_pizza.html


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For me, as great as video is and especially when accompanied by music, if I had to choose between the two (audio/video) audio would win hands down! Every time!!! Because one has the luxury of closing their eyes gives audio a huge advantage in my view. If I need something to look at during emotional passages in music, I'll look at the glow of my tubes.


 


  audio > video everytime.
   
  and yes tube glow is pretty


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm only following your foot steps, be careful,_* I may show up in HK any moment*_ (I wish)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Anytime, let me know and something good is waiting for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For your new toy, it looks much nicer from the pics on your sig. it is a very nice built Beta22 I ever seen. Take some pics when you got it in hand, we love beautiful gears' pics here and will not blame you derail the thread, no worry.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My last name is Lombardi. I'm from NY. My Italian ancestors are from Naples Italy.
> 
> http://www.firstpizza.com/
> 
> http://www.passion-4-pizza.com/new_york_pizza.html


 


  They took great care of me!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> audio > video everytime.
> 
> and yes tube glow is pretty


 


  I miss the romance of my Woo with glowing tubes. I'd periodically turn off the lights in sessions. When I run Grey Glass & the '596' why bother? A near blackout!


----------



## obzilla

So I have a photo shoot in NYC next week, about 4-5 days in Times Square, and Woo comes to mind as I am interested in making my system a balanced one (WA22).
   
  I know I could email Jack, and I have before with inquiries, but does anyone know where abouts in NY they are located?
   
  I would love to ask about checking the place out, and perhaps smuggling something back across the border with me to Canada after the shoot.
   
  Are they in Manhattan or outside a bit?


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> My last name is Lombardi. I'm from NY. My Italian ancestors are from Naples Italy.
> 
> http://www.firstpizza.com/
> 
> http://www.passion-4-pizza.com/new_york_pizza.html




A Lombardi from Napoli? The House of Sforza is not amused.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tonight, I followed up with Jack. And he kindly informed me (for future reference): The Output impedance of a _WA 6 Special Edition_ is 32 ohms at low output, 120 ohms at high output. The WA2 has an output of about impedance of 150 ohms.


 

 Interesting.  Thanks for passing this on.


----------



## xinque

Believe they're in Queens, but they don't have any storefront or showroom.  Probably too much to maintain a physical presence given how niche the hobby is.  Asked a couple months back if I could pick up an amp locally ($150 to ship WA5) and they said no.  Not that I hold it against them or anything if they're building everything out of their home or something, I wouldn't want strangers wandering around my house either.
  
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> So I have a photo shoot in NYC next week, about 4-5 days in Times Square, and Woo comes to mind as I am interested in making my system a balanced one (WA22).
> 
> I know I could email Jack, and I have before with inquiries, but does anyone know where abouts in NY they are located?
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Believe they're in Queens, but they don't have any storefront or showroom.  Probably too much to maintain a physical presence given how niche the hobby is.  Asked a couple months back if I could pick up an amp locally ($150 to ship WA5) and they said no.  Not that I hold it against them or anything if they're building everything out of their home or something, I wouldn't want strangers wandering around my house either.


 


  X2, I was in NY a lot and asked about picking up my WA6 couple years back and Jack said no due to insurance liability.  They are constantly build amps and most of the time they left the cover open with live AC.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Believe they're in Queens, but they don't have any storefront or showroom.  Probably too much to maintain a physical presence given how niche the hobby is.  Asked a couple months back if I could pick up an amp locally ($150 to ship WA5) and they said no.  Not that I hold it against them or anything if they're building everything out of their home or something, I wouldn't want strangers wandering around my house either.


 


   


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, I was in NY a lot and asked about picking up my WA6 couple years back and Jack said no due to insurance liability.  They are constantly build amps and most of the time they left the cover open with live AC.


 
   
   
  Ah well. Thanks guys. Saves me from having to bug Jack. I was hoping to escape some shipping and tax money since I was going to be in NYC anyways.


----------



## Pudu

obzilla said:


> Ah well. Thanks guys. Saves me from having to bug Jack. I was hoping to escape some shipping and tax money since I was going to be in NYC anyways.




Can you have it shipped to where you will be staying? Most hotels will receive packages on your behalf.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tonight, I followed up with Jack. And he kindly informed me (for future reference): The Output impedance of a _WA 6 Special Edition_ is 32 ohms at low output, 120 ohms at high output. The WA2 has an output of about impedance of 150 ohms.


 


  great stuff SilentOne.
  cheers indeed.
  but this talk of pizza is making me hungry and its only 930am


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Can you have it shipped to where you will be staying? Most hotels will receive packages on your behalf.


 


  That's a fantastic idea. Quite the dirty trick, I wish I had thought of that!
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Pudu

obzilla said:


> That's a fantastic idea. Quite the dirty trick, I wish I had thought of that!
> 
> Thanks!




Yes, well until they get the health care system sorted, and get rid of all the publicly funded and supported private enterprise, I have not much love for the revenue collectors of this great country of ours.


----------



## xinque

Yeah, but considering it's insured by the carrier from Jack's hands to the destination, why risk damaging the tubes/amp by transporting it yourself when the carrier can drop it at your doorstep and be insured at the same time?
  
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> Can you have it shipped to where you will be staying? Most hotels will receive packages on your behalf.


----------



## Pudu

xinque said:


> Yeah, but considering it's insured by the carrier from Jack's hands to the destination, why risk damaging the tubes/amp by transporting it yourself when the carrier can drop it at your doorstep and be insured at the same time?




See the post above yours.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I had a pizza in CT a few months ago that might have been the best I've ever eaten in the States (http://www.pepespizzeria.com).  There are some pretty good pizzas across the pond though ... the most notable for me in Zurich.  I dream of going back for the pizza alone.  If you want to feel your pizza than chicago can't be beat ... Giordanos, Ginos, Lou Malnatis, Connies ...OK I'm getting hungry and it's barely past breakfast!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 WA, I hail from Brooklyn right off of Flatbush and Ocean Avenue.  I was there when the Dogers were still playing, and when they left I stopped loving baseball.
   
  I so remember the days of walking up to the pizza shops that had their open window to the street and ordering a slice.  Do you know of any cheese recipe that can approximate the taste of the east coast cheese combo?  I just had to replace our oven and got a nice convection oven and want to start making pizza at home and would love to have that east coast cheese flavor instead of just Mozzarella.


----------



## recoveredaddict

HELP I need a DAC to connect my WooAudio 3 to my PC.  Any suggestions?  I'd like to not spend more on the DAC than was spent on the Amp if possible.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





recoveredaddict said:


> HELP I need a DAC to connect my WooAudio 3 to my PC.  Any suggestions?  I'd like to not spend more on the DAC than was spent on the Amp if possible.


 


  DACmagic perhaps?


----------



## jc9394

May be a gamma2?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> That's a fantastic idea. Quite the dirty trick, I wish I had thought of that!
> 
> Thanks!


 

 My amp was delayed two months, so just make sure your amp would be ready when you get to NYC.
   
  When mine came across the border, the invoice was about half of what the actual cost was. So there was some savings there. Also helped when the wife asked "How much was that".


----------



## recoveredaddict

Thanks for the tip on the DACMagic.  Gamma2 is a DIY correct?  I can't solder.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





recoveredaddict said:


> Thanks for the tip on the DACMagic.  Gamma2 is a DIY correct?  I can't solder.


 


  You can contact MisterX to build one for you.  I had both at one time and prefer the gamma2 but the DacMagic have more functions (like XLR out)


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> So I have a photo shoot in NYC next week, about 4-5 days in Times Square, and Woo comes to mind as I am interested in making my system a balanced one (WA22).
> 
> I know I could email Jack, and I have before with inquiries, but does anyone know where abouts in NY they are located?
> 
> ...


 

 You're going to love the WA22.  Of course you know that it's best to feed it a balanced signal.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> My amp was delayed two months, so just make sure your amp would be ready when you get to NYC.
> 
> When mine came across the border, the invoice was about half of what the actual cost was. So there was some savings there. Also helped when the wife asked "How much was that".


 


  Hmm, perhaps I've got my head in the sky a bit then. I fly next week and am there for 5 days.
  Luckily I'm not married and my girlfriend appreciates audio as much as I can realistically expect... though she does get curious about the money sometimes.
   
  I'll contact Jack.
  Thanks!


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> You're going to love the WA22.  Of course you know that it's best to feed it a balanced signal.


 


  Yes indeed sir.
   
  A Wyred4Sound DAC2 should suffice no? 
   
  One just showed up today, I turned it on and it started complaining about having to send out an SE signal, and that I really needed to find it a balanced mate....


----------



## Wapiti

Superb choice


----------



## WindyCityCy

Maybe one of the new W4S uDACs that were just announced at RMAF. The uDAC-HD at $499 sounds like it might be a killer product.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Quote: 





recoveredaddict said:


> HELP I need a DAC to connect my WooAudio 3 to my PC.  Any suggestions?  I'd like to not spend more on the DAC than was spent on the Amp if possible.


 


  Maybe one of the new W4S uDACs that were just announced at RMAF. The uDAC-HD at $499 sounds like it might be a killer product.


----------



## obzilla

ignore...


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A lot of people on the board have a W4S DAC2 as do I and I love mine.  I was able to audition it at the same time as the Bryston DAC and even though Stereophile gave that DAC their product of the year award and the reviewer bought his review sample, I found the W4S DAC to be more musical than the Bryston.  My aha moment came when listening to Frank Sinatra.  On the Bryston, everything was clear and tonally correct, but when listening through the W4S the emotion in Frank's voice was more clearly conveyed.  I talked to Ed Sargento at W4S about that he he told me that they pay great attention to micro dynamics.
   
  Also, I found out that if you set the min volume to 0 and max volume to 70 and set the output to 60 you'll have the cleanest signal.
   
  Once you put a balanced signal into the WA22, you'll at least double your sonic goodness.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I talked to Ed Sargento at W4S about that he he told me that they pay great attention to micro dynamics.


 
   
  He is absolutely correct.  A good musician puts a lot of effort into dynamics and tonal shading.  Any piece of equipment that captures both will best convey musical expression. 
   
  As far as headphones go, I find the T1 very good in this respect.
   
  Thanks, Mike.  Nice piece of information partially explaining why this is such a nice DAC.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> He is absolutely correct.  A good musician puts a lot of effort into dynamics and tonal shading.  Any piece of equipment that captures both will best convey musical expression.
> 
> As far as headphones go, I find the T1 very good in this respect.
> 
> Thanks, Mike.  Nice piece of information partially explaining why this is such a nice DAC.


 


  +2
   
  And the Woo/W4S family grows...


----------



## Pudu

I did a quick a dirty comparison of the WA2 vs the Lyr using only the LCD2r2s. I chose tracks that I've listened to recently so I wasn't ambushed by new things I haven't heard before on these rigs.


The first point goes to the Lyr for having an actual name rather than a meaningless abbreviation model number. T1, LCD2r2,WA2,****. 


*
Rachmaninoff - Vocalise No. 14 Op. 34*

The Lyr gives a clear detailed presentation. The WA2 provides the more emotional experience. Is this a particularly fair piece to use? After all it is a Romantic composer using haunting, sweeping passages. Tough, round goes to the WA2 without reservation. 


*Ella & Louis Again - Stompin' at The Savoy*

Again the Lyr sounds clearer, detailed - if I was re-engineering this track I'd want the LCD2 to work with for sure. And again probably not a fair track to use. Clear detail isn't what you want with this one. The WA2 wins by virtue of scoring highest on the toe tapping metre. 
*

Tom Waits - Tom Traubert's Blues*

I was going to award this one to the Lyr as soon as it started playing. It sounds fantastic. Switching to the WA2, it made the Lyr sound like Tom was singing directly into my ear, whereas the WA2 had slightly less edge - Tom moved to the couch across from me. Ultimately I think the Woo would be less fatiguing, but the Lyr is more immediately impressive. I'm going to give this a tie because while I think the Lyr sounds better in the short term, I might tire of the feeling of Tom's nicotine breath on my ear drums. 


*Katy Perry - MTV Unplugged*

That's right Katy Perry, you wanna make something of it?  Actually I was surprised to find out she has a decent voice to go along with her more than decent ..um assets..um I mean earnings.

The Lyr plays well to the in your face edginess of this acoustic sound. On the other hand the WA2 kind of rounded the edges- it sounded almost muted compared to the Lyr. Katy goes to the Lyr.


If I had to choose between these two amps I would definitely base the decision on the kind of music I favoured. There are significant differences in the sound and the experience produced. By the way I used the HM-602 (another stupid abbreviation - they could at least use amusing acronyms) as source for all these because I have been messing with it over the last couple of day and I just Rockboxed it, so I wanted to give it a run. I know this comparison isn't worth a hell of a lot , but this thread got me wondering about the differences and I'm away all weekend so I wanted to satisfy my own curiosity somewhat.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A lot of people on the board have a W4S DAC2 as do I and I love mine.  I was able to audition it at the same time as the Bryston DAC and even though Stereophile gave that DAC their product of the year award and the reviewer bought his review sample, I found the W4S DAC to be more musical than the Bryston.  My aha moment came when listening to Frank Sinatra.  On the Bryston, everything was clear and tonally correct, but when listening through the W4S the emotion in Frank's voice was more clearly conveyed.  I talked to Ed Sargento at W4S about that he he told me that they pay great attention to micro dynamics.
> 
> Also, I found out that if you set the min volume to 0 and max volume to 70 and set the output to 60 you'll have the cleanest signal.
> 
> Once you put a balanced signal into the WA22, you'll at least double your sonic goodness.


 


  Having spent time in your wonderfully set up listening room, I can testify! Although, I'm going to have to return shortly to perform an annual audit.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I did a quick a dirty comparison of the WA2 vs the Lyr using only the LCD2r2s. I chose tracks that I've listened to recently so I wasn't ambushed by new things I haven't heard before on these rigs.
> 
> 
> The first point goes to the Lyr for having an actual name rather than a meaningless abbreviation model number. T1, LCD2r2,WA2,****.
> ...


 

 I'd rather be roxboxed than Rick Rolled!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, any time!  You know I have an old Music Hall MMF-7 that I am not using at the moment and if you need a turntable, you are welcome to borrow it for a while.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> +2
> 
> And the Woo/W4S family grows...


 


  woo family!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Yes indeed sir.
> 
> A Wyred4Sound DAC2 should suffice no?
> 
> One just showed up today, I turned it on and it started complaining about having to send out an SE signal, and that I really needed to find it a balanced mate....


 

  
  In my view, Wyred4Sound DACs provide the greatest value at its price-point. It routinely beats up... (well, that's not very nice) rather, it outperforms many DACs at or near its price points. It really comes down to what you like (but what's not to love?!).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Yes, any time!  You know I have an old Music Hall MMF-7 that I am not using at the moment and if you need a turntable, you are welcome to borrow it for a while.


 

  
  Fantastique! I best order that Astrud Gilberto then... 180 Gram Audiophile Virgin Vinyl LP 45 RPM - 2 LPs 
   




   
   
   
  Since your Cat found your primary Turn Table in the closet this past summer, what are the chances you might wanna sell the Music Hall? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just woke up at Noon - all the chat about NY Pizza left me disappointed when I entered the kitchen. The water is the primary reason (and partially air) pizza taste different out here. BTW, I put my visiting residency down in Brownsville (Bklyn).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> woo family!


 


  Because of Wyred4Sound's lineage to PS Audio, you're in there as well!


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I did a quick a dirty comparison of the WA2 vs the Lyr using only the LCD2r2s. I chose tracks that I've listened to recently so I wasn't ambushed by new things I haven't heard before on these rigs.
> The first point goes to the Lyr for having an actual name rather than a meaningless abbreviation model number. T1, LCD2r2,WA2,****.
> 
> 
> If I had to choose between these two amps I would definitely base the decision on the kind of music I favoured. There are significant differences in the sound and the experience produced. By the way I used the HM-602 (another stupid abbreviation - they could at least use amusing acronyms) as source for all these because I have been messing with it over the last couple of day and I just Rockboxed it, so I wanted to give it a run. I know this comparison isn't worth a hell of a lot , but this thread got me wondering about the differences and I'm away all weekend so I wanted to satisfy my own curiosity somewhat.


 


  Hmm that's not too reassuring a WA22 would be my next step up from the Lyr, on my LCD2r2s.
  I assume the WA2 and WA22 are not greatly separated.
   
  Has anyone here compared the Lyr to the WA22 directly?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Maybe one of the new W4S uDACs that were just announced at RMAF. The uDAC-HD at $499 sounds like it might be a killer product.


 


  Priced to move and it's got synergy on board...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> great stuff SilentOne.
> cheers indeed.
> but this talk of pizza is making me hungry and its only 930am


 


  Glad I could assist. I too, suffered waking up to the Pizza Diaries... _and there was none to be had._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> So I have a photo shoot in NYC next week, about 4-5 days in Times Square, and Woo comes to mind as I am interested in making my system a balanced one (WA22).
> 
> I know I could email Jack, and I have before with inquiries, but does anyone know where abouts in NY they are located?
> 
> ...


 


  I would like to visit and see Woo Audio's operations as well. Not sure how flexible your travel schedule is. But as a consolation (a great one at that), if you're able to return to Canada after stopping in Binghamton, NY, you could tour McIntosh Labs. Then leave from there or Syracuse back to the land I get my Pure Canadian Maple Syrup from.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you want to buy it, sure.  It needs a turntable/motor belt.  I loved that turntable and the only reason I replaced it was because of the Clearaudio Solution turntable review I did which introduced me to Clearaudio's turntable line.  Let's PM about the details and we'll get you going soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> If you want to buy it, sure.  It needs a turntable/motor belt.  I loved that turntable and the only reason I replaced it was because of the Clearaudio Solution turntable review I did which introduced me to Clearaudio's turntable line.  Let's PM about the details and we'll get you going soon.


 


_(Not wanting his WA6SE to over hear any of this just yet, Silent One begins to speak in hushed tones...)_
   

 Great! Will see you on the other side within the hour.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I would like to visit and see Woo Audio's operations as well. Not sure how flexible your travel schedule is. But as a consolation (a great one at that), if you're able to return to Canada after stopping in Binghamton, NY, you could tour McIntosh Labs. Then leave from there or Syracuse back to the land I get my Pure Canadian Maple Syrup from.


 


  Nope, in and out of JFK, unfortunately any extra curricular activity would have to take place in one of the 5 boroughs.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _(Not wanting his WA6SE to over hear any of this just yet, Silent One begins to speak in hushed tones...)_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 


  Trying to avoid raising hopes inside the listening room prematurely. _But, if we get that bad boy connected..._


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pudu said:


> *Katy Perry - MTV Unplugged*
> That's right Katy Perry, you wanna make something of it?
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There are two excellent performances which are also well recorded sonic gems on that CD.  "I Kissed A Girl" & "Ur So Gay".   The recordings are sonic powerhouses.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> There are two excellent performances which are also well recorded sonic gems on that CD.  "I Kissed A Girl" & "Ur So Gay".   The recordings are sonic powerhouses.


 

  
  i <3 katy perry shes one of my favorite artists


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> There are two excellent performances which are also well recorded sonic gems on that CD.  "I Kissed A Girl" & "Ur So Gay".   The recordings are sonic powerhouses.


 


_R-e-a-l-l-y!  _I appreciate the technical side of recordings, so I'll have to check it out!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (and thanks for your insights as well)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _R-e-a-l-l-y!  _I appreciate the technical side of recordings, so I'll have to check it out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  same gonna have to look into it, usually im not into live recordings.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> same gonna have to look into it, usually im not into live recordings.


 


  I didn't know they were live recordings. That makes the recording even more of an accomplishment!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> same gonna have to look into it, usually im not into live recordings.


 


  In the case of these two songs the live versions are the only ones that make them interesting to listen to for me. The studio versions do absolutely nothing for me and are lifeless pop songs in comparison and I wouldn't listen to the studio versions twice.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> In the case of these two songs the live versions are the only ones that make them interesting to listen to for me. The studio versions do absolutely nothing for me and are lifeless pop songs in comparison and I wouldn't listen to the studio versions twice.


 


  listening to them right now. definitely better mastering than the album version. but i like the album version more


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> A lot of people on the board have a W4S DAC2 as do I and I love mine.  I was able to audition it at the same time as the Bryston DAC and even though Stereophile gave that DAC their product of the year award and the reviewer bought his review sample, I found the W4S DAC to be more musical than the Bryston.  My aha moment came when listening to Frank Sinatra.  On the Bryston, everything was clear and tonally correct, but when listening through the W4S the emotion in Frank's voice was more clearly conveyed.  I talked to Ed Sargento at W4S about that he he told me that they pay great attention to micro dynamics.
> 
> Also, I found out that if you set the min volume to 0 and max volume to 70 and set the output to 60 you'll have the cleanest signal.
> 
> Once you put a balanced signal into the WA22, you'll at least double your sonic goodness.


 

 Listen to Mike...the man knows of what he speaks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  W4S Dac-2 + WA22 (balanced) = WOW.


----------



## jc9394

I'm on the other camp, catching the perfect wave with WA22 does it for me.  Wireless streaming flac...


----------



## Rawrbington

all my friends think im crazy for spending so much on this stuff.
  but i finally put it into perspective for one.
  when i bought my 47 inch LCD tv last year i spent a grand  on it.
  and its great.  i love it.
  my bro just bought a 52 inch sammy LED for like 2399.
  its super awesome and he watches it all the time.
   
  well i spend 1500+ on audio equipment and its not that crazy.
  i use it ALL THE TIME.
  way more than my TV
   
  im not sure who im trying to convince though....


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> all my friends think im crazy for spending so much on this stuff.


 

 That's one of the easiest audiophile problems to tweak.  Just get new friends.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Listen to Mike...the man knows of what he speaks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are you going to be moving on to the Liquid fire?    Let me know if...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Are you going to be moving on to the Liquid fire?    Let me know if...


 

 No plans...honestly.


----------



## Rawrbington

think my little wa3 has the balls to drive the T50rp?
  im thinking about picking up a pair of them or D2000s while im "saving" up a few more bucks for the WA2 purchase


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Listen to Mike...the man knows of what he speaks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Since you have all the kit (and then some!!) that I do, how would you say the WA22 stacks up the Lyr in terms of an upgrade?
  Icing on the cake type upgrade, or big game changing move... or something between them?
   
  FWIW, the W4S has been a rollercoaster since I got home.... diggin it, but it's a changin.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Since you have all the kit (and then some!!) that I do, how would you say the WA22 stacks up the Lyr in terms of an upgrade?
> Icing on the cake type upgrade, or big game changing move... or something between them?
> 
> FWIW, the W4S has been a rollercoaster since I got home.... diggin it, but it's a changin.


 


  With my HD800s and T1s, the difference is quite profound. Less so with my LCd-2s (but I still prefer them with my WA22). Finally though, with my HE-6s, the Lyr is the better choice.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> With my HD800s and T1s, the difference is quite profound. Less so with my LCd-2s (but I still prefer them with my WA22). Finally though, with my HE-6s, the Lyr is the better choice.


 


  I´ve got the LCD2s, though I do plan on branching out at some point to a pair of T1s. Interesting that it's not that big of a step up with the LCDs.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> think my little wa3 has the balls to drive the T50rp?
> im thinking about picking up a pair of them or D2000s while im "saving" up a few more bucks for the WA2 purchase


 


  isn't the WA3 better suited for higher impedance headphones?
   
  same thing with WA2


----------



## Rawrbington

yes.
  but the 3 does ok with my shures.
  but can't do the 770 32 ohm at all.
   
   
  but it seems like so many nice cans are low imp. 
   
  have you heard the 880 600?  theres a few pairs on the classifieds for good prices.  may pick up a pair of those, but im worried they will sound almost exactly like my 990s


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You are bad!


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think you have double the equipment I have, so if anyone knows anything, it's you!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> yes.
> but the 3 does ok with my shures.
> but can't do the 770 32 ohm at all.
> 
> ...


 


  the 880s are supposed to sound nothingl ike the 990s...


----------



## sillysally

Well now that I have the LCD-3's, along with a headphone cable from DHC and a P5 (upgrade from PPP)  all on there way to me, I can compare my Liquid Fire and WA5LE using the new LCD-3's. I have compared my Liquid Fire and WA5LE using my HE6's/DHC, the Liquid Fire wins.
   
  And yes I am also very happy with my W4S Dac1 with upgraded caps, didn't need the better USB or the volume control.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the 880s are supposed to sound nothingl ike the 990s...


 


  hmm.  interesting.  i've heard it both ways.  if they do sound very different that may be the route i want to go then.  i like every beyer i've ever heard.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well now that I have the LCD-3's, along with a headphone cable from DHC and a P5 (upgrade from PPP)  all on there way to me, I can compare my Liquid Fire and WA5LE using the new LCD-3's. I have compared my Liquid Fire and WA5LE using my HE6's/DHC, the Liquid Fire wins.
> 
> And yes I am also very happy with my W4S Dac1 with upgraded caps, didn't need the better USB or the volume control.


 


  x2
   
  W4S DAC-1 with upgraded caps...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Since you have all the kit (and then some!!) that I do, how would you say the WA22 stacks up the Lyr in terms of an upgrade?
> Icing on the cake type upgrade, or big game changing move... or something between them?
> 
> FWIW, the W4S has been a rollercoaster since I got home.... diggin it, but it's a changin.


 


  Your Shoe box ( can't help it, when I look at the W4S DACs I keep thinking about shoe boxes) is goin' to need 300 hours at minimum and 500 hours to be seated comfortably by Row & Section number. So, count on at least 300...




   
  For a time, _my W4S DAC was ALL over the street!_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> hmm.  interesting.  i've heard it both ways.  if they do sound very different that may be the route i want to go then.  i like every beyer i've ever heard.


 


  well they sound beyerish, but unlike the dt 990s, they're supposed to be neutral sounding, similar to k701 and hd 600s. 
   
  imagine a k701 with less soundstage and more bass or an hd 650s thats more engaging and less-laid back while maintaining a similar sound signature.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> Thanks for the concern, SilentOne.  I've yet to try and clean them.. nervous about the sandpaper idea.  However, upon inspection of the pins it's like there's a little chip off one or two of them.  *Not completely broken off but some metal is displaced.. it's hard to describe.*  Maybe that's the issue?  I don't have much time to devote to Head-Fi / listening so I apologize for the delayed response.  As for the Teflon sockets, yes, I believe I do have them (it's the model that was made stock with PDPS so I'm assuming the Teflon was included).


 

  
  I understand your schedule. You could always upload a digital pix for the thread's review (when you've the chance, of course!).


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> I've yet to try and clean them.. nervous about the sandpaper idea.


 

 Remember, all you are doing is cleaning.  Use very fine sandpaper and just make the pins shiny. Some use a pen knife. although I prefer sandpaper.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well now that I have the LCD-3's, along with a headphone cable from DHC and a P5 (upgrade from PPP)  all on there way to me, I can compare my Liquid Fire and WA5LE using the new LCD-3's. I have compared my Liquid Fire and WA5LE using my HE6's/DHC, the Liquid Fire wins.
> 
> And yes I am also very happy with my W4S Dac1 with upgraded caps, didn't need the better USB or the volume control.


 

 SS, am interested in your take on the 3 as opposed to the 2.


----------



## thrak

I have a 6SE being delivered today <yay!>.  I think I read somewhere that tube amps could be susceptible to interference from radio sources.  That said, I have a couple of WiFi access points and 3 computers with wifi and bluetooth in my office.  Do I need to worry about this with my 6SE?  If so, how far from these EMI sources should I keep it?


----------



## jc9394

I never have any issues with WiFi and bluetooth, I only experience interference is with cellphone that is using EDGE instead of 3G.


----------



## jc9394

boys and girls.  
   
  super headphone deals for you.  just received an email from Moon-Audio, they are offering 11% off all headphones* including LCD-3 *unfortunately for me that I can not afford it.  coupon code "ELEVEN"  It is only good for today.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> boys and girls.
> 
> super headphone deals for you.  just received an email from Moon-Audio, they are offering 11% off all headphones* including LCD-3 *unfortunately for me that I can not afford it.  coupon code "ELEVEN"  It is only good for today.


 

 Ohhh.  The. Temptation.  Must.  Not.  Buy.  More.  Stuff..............................................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ohhh.  The. Temptation.  Must.  Not.  Buy.  More.  Stuff..............................................


 


  Come on Mike, we expected you to get a pair to compare to LCD-2 R2.
   
  EDIT, if I don't have a beta22 coming next week, take a wild guess where money goes to.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Ohhh.  The. Temptation.  Must.  Not.  Buy.  More.  Stuff..............................................


 

 Look over here Mike.  You're feeling............relaxed............your eyelids are becoming................heavy..................you're drifting now.............into.............Woo land.........slowly drifting...........into..........Woo land.........the next time you hear the sound of your WA22 turning on you'll order the LCD-3's from Moon Audio..................you'll need.......to order..........the LCD-3's..............when you see a count to three on the screen you'll awaken........1.......2........3..........
   
  Mike!  Go turn on your WA22! and did you know there is a discount on the LCD-3 today at Moon Audio?!


----------



## jc9394

WA, you are more of evil than me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  That 11% is very tempting for me but I will skip LCD-3 as I said before.  So glad spent my money on beta22.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think that Dante needs another ring in hell for you guys. 
   
  Actually, I am listening to my WA22 right now as I wrestle with Microsoft's Team Foundation Server.
   
  Anyway, SillySally is getting an LCD-3 and I can listen to his thoughts first.  Also, I'm working on DIY power cables right now.  I had to replace our refregerator AND oven/microwave already, AND my wife needs a new laptop.  I think I'm going to have to difer any new audio purchases for a while and keep the home fires burning.


----------



## jc9394

We are only trying to help a bro to spend his hard earn money...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I think that Dante needs another ring in hell for you guys.
> 
> Actually, I am listening to my WA22 right now as I wrestle with Microsoft's Team Foundation Server.
> 
> Anyway, SillySally is getting an LCD-3 and I can listen to his thoughts first.  Also, I'm working on DIY power cables right now.  I had to replace our refregerator AND oven/microwave already, AND my wife needs a new laptop.  I think I'm going to have to difer any new audio purchases for a while and keep the home fires burning.


 

 Mike, I listened to the LCD-3s and LCD-2s side by side at the Canjam.  Unfortunately for LCD-2 owners, there was no comparison (IMO).  And I love my LCD-2s but I sold them within 2 weeks of coming home.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Look over here Mike.  You're feeling............relaxed............your eyelids are becoming................heavy..................you're drifting now.............into.............Woo land.........slowly drifting...........into..........Woo land.........the next time you hear the sound of your WA22 turning on you'll order the LCD-3's from Moon Audio..................you'll need.......to order..........the LCD-3's..............when you see a count to three on the screen you'll awaken........1.......2........3..........
> 
> Mike!  Go turn on your WA22! and did you know there is a discount on the LCD-3 today at Moon Audio?!


 

  
  That post made my weekend.......... _and it's only Friday!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Mike, I listened to the LCD-3s and LCD-2s side by side at the Canjam.  Unfortunately for LCD-2 owners, there was no comparison (IMO).  And I love my LCD-2s but I sold them within 2 weeks of coming home.


 







  What an indictment! Gotta feel for some of the LCD-2 owners who received their cans on the same day, a few days prior to the LCD-3 release.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 


  Did you end up accommodating a new pair of BL-63's for your WA22?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What an indictment! Gotta feel for some of the LCD-2 owners who received their cans on the same day, a few days prior to the LCD-3 release.


 
  I've been asked politely and respectfully not to go there in the threads concerning that topic....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  But I have had an experience with an $80 set of cans recently that has really made me reevaluate the sanity of spending even 1K on a pair of headphones let alone 2K.    Since the LCD-2's were my first pair of cans ever and pretty much the first ones I have ever used my experience with other cans is of course limited.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> I have a 6SE being delivered today <yay!>.  I think I read somewhere that tube amps could be susceptible to interference from radio sources.  That said, I have a couple of WiFi access points and 3 computers with wifi and bluetooth in my office.  Do I need to worry about this with my 6SE?  If so, how far from these EMI sources should I keep it?


 


  Congratulations thrak!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You need not worry about EMI sources just yet, it's really environmental and like running water, will vary... widely. Some will be immune and others will be plagued, no escaping one's environment. You'll know as soon as you strive for placement.
   
  Computer monitors, TV monitors, Mobile devices, Wi-Fi Routers & Modems can all be a bit much for some tube amps. Which can also be impacted by how much metal is inside the room and where (think broadcasting). You'll likely be fine, my comments are being made for awareness purposes only.
   
  Let us know how it went, best to you!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you end up accommodating a new pair of BL-63's for your WA22?


 


   
  Unfortunately no, spent all my toy funds on beta22 this year and trying to squeeze in a tube tester too.  I think before investing more expensive tubes, I really need to get a tester.  
   
  Plus, I'm after a vintage Marantz 2265/2275.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What an indictment! Gotta feel for some of the LCD-2 owners who received their cans on the same day, a few days prior to the LCD-3 release.


 


   
  Tell me about it, I received mines three weeks before the rumor confirmed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been asked politely and respectfully not to go there in the threads concerning that topic....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  True. But for me, it's a normal reaction that anyone would have on the street... because I did! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I understand the Markets (both as a consumer and a former NASD Rep). And I also understand some consumers will not care what prices are if it's something they want, need or desire. In this case, the name "Consumer" is not a coincidence.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congratulations thrak!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I never have any issues with WiFi and bluetooth, I only experience interference is with cellphone that is using EDGE instead of 3G.


 
   
  Thanks for the info fellas.  I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.  Sadly I am in the west coast atm and home is DC and I just got confirmation that it has been delivered!  I guess i'll be dreaming about it on the red-eye tonight


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Thanks for the info fellas.  I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.  Sadly I am in the west coast atm and home is DC and I just got confirmation that it has been delivered!  I guess i'll be dreaming about it on the red-eye tonight


 


   
  I heard ya, my PWD delivered when I was in LA for the week.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Thanks for the info fellas.  I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.  Sadly I am in the west coast atm and home is DC and I just got confirmation that it has been delivered!  I guess i'll be dreaming about it on the red-eye tonight


 


  On the bright side, it's the weekend! I love taking deliveries just prior to the weekend. Nuthin' worse than getting some goodies on a Monday and you're too busy to pay it proper attention. Yet, you become distracted!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On the bright side, it's the weekend! I love taking deliveries just prior to the weekend. Nuthin' worse than getting some goodies on a Monday and you're too busy to pay it proper attention. Yet, you become distracted!


 


   
  I hate you SilentOne, you just reminded me my beta22 will be arriving on next Monday.  I have three pressing project...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Out of curiosity what is the going rate for a used pair of LCD2 Rev1?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I hate you SilentOne, you just reminded me my beta22 will be arriving on next Monday.  I have three pressing project...


 







  Well...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Unfortunately no, spent all my toy funds on beta22 this year and trying to squeeze in a tube tester too.  I think before investing more expensive tubes, I really need to get a tester.
> 
> Plus, I'm after a vintage Marantz 2265/2275.


 


  Does this suggest my _WA 6 Special Edition_ shall remain "NU-less?" In your quest for the Marantz, I can help!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Mike, I listened to the LCD-3s and LCD-2s side by side at the Canjam.  Unfortunately for LCD-2 owners, there was no comparison (IMO).  And I love my LCD-2s but I sold them within 2 weeks of coming home.


 


 I did the same thing at Canjam and totally agree with you. I am planning on ordering a pair in not too long...hopefully


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> boys and girls.
> 
> super headphone deals for you.  just received an email from Moon-Audio, they are offering 11% off all headphones* including LCD-3 *unfortunately for me that I can not afford it.  coupon code "ELEVEN"  It is only good for today.


 


  Good for cables too??
   
  - Nope... just tried.
  Oh well.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Good for cables too??


 

 I don't know if it's good for cables alone, but I priced out a re-cabled Beyer T70p, and it gave me the 11% discount on the entire price, not just the headphone portion.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Out of curiosity what is the going rate for a used pair of LCD2 Rev1?


 


  $700 - $725 depending on age and cabling.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does this suggest my _WA 6 Special Edition_ shall remain "NU-less?" In your quest for the Marantz, I can help!


 


   
  Humm, Intereting proposal.  Please help...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I don't know if it's good for cables alone, but I priced out a re-cabled Beyer T70p, and it gave me the 11% discount on the entire price, not just the headphone portion.


 


   
  No on cables alone and yes on headphone package.


----------



## mikemalter

>


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> We are only trying to help a bro to spend his hard earn money...


 

 I have a wife for that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   


  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I really need to learn to detach from my hardware.  I've been thinking about selling my LCD-2 r2 and I put it off and now there is the 3 out there.  I'm really glad to hear the three is a home run as the Audeze guys are cool and deserve a success.  BTY, what did you sell your 2 at?  I have a stock cable and a nice wooden box with mine.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Out of curiosity what is the going rate for a used pair of LCD2 Rev1?


 


  I saw this  a few days ago, I think the Rev.1 is starting to go for less than the Rev.2
   
   
  these links are a few days old...
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard ya, my PWD delivered when I was in LA for the week.


 
   
  Coincidentally, I just received delivery of  a new PWD an hour and half ago.  Listening this very moment (-> WA5 -> T1).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Coincidentally, I just received delivery of  a new PWD an hour and half ago.  Listening this very moment (-> WA5 -> T1).


 







  Great! Tease us with an artist now currently playing...


----------



## jc9394

Wapiti, did you get the Bridge?  Give that puppy at least 300 hours before settle down, be prepar for the MK2 upgrade, it is ready on the 15th.


----------



## Silent One

*Tung-Sol 6F8G Tubes*
   
  What to make of this seller's claim, Black Glass Rib Plates better than the Black Glass Round Plates? I've no idea,which is why I'm asking... and interested. 
   
   
*[size=medium]MATCHED 1 PAIR TUNG-SOL+two adapters upgrade 6SN7 CV181 TUBES[/size]*
*[size=medium]Rib black plate/Black glass/best 6FG[/size]*
*[size=medium]Better than the round plate Tung-sol 6SN7[/size]*


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of those. Not better.  But not worse, either - very similar sounding to these ears.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a pair of those. Not better.  But not worse, either - very similar sounding to these ears.


 


  Thanks, I'm just trying to get what I can get!


----------



## Skylab

What's he asking for those?


----------



## jc9394

I have a pair too, it is the same to me and I do prefer it due to less expensive.  I still can't decide I like the TS or NU yet, both are good but different.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What's he asking for those?


 

  
  $269/eBay (ayumitubes)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have a pair too, it is the same to me and I do prefer it due to less expensive.  I still can't decide I like the TS or NU yet, both are good but different.


 


  Are you able to briefly highlight the difference (TS/NU)?


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> $269/eBay (ayumitubes)


 

  
  Crazy talk. When my tube dealer has those he charges $120 a pair.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Crazy talk. When my tube dealer has those he charges $120 a pair.


 


   
  Not anymore, I have not see a pair for less than $200 for a long time.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are you able to briefly highlight the difference (TS/NU)?


 


   
  The TS are very balanced and xtremely good with all type of music while the NU are a little more forward and slightly enhanced on the mids.  The NU are very good with jazz and vocals but a hair better, you reall need to look for it.
   
  If it is my money, I will most likely go for the TS just because the NU are very hard to find a pair that is dead quiet.
   
  On the other hand, I really like to try out the BL63.  Oh well, I guess we can not have everything.  Maybe next year with new toy budget.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Crazy talk. When my tube dealer has those he charges $120 a pair.


 


  Care to reveal your dealer? If reserved, then PM (this would be helpful future reference)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The TS are very balanced and xtremely good with all type of music while the NU are a little more forward and slightly enhanced on the mids.  The NU are very good with jazz and vocals but a hair better, you reall need to look for it.
> 
> If it is my money, I will most likely go for the TS just because the NU are very hard to find a pair that is dead quiet.
> 
> On the other hand, I really like to try out the BL63.  Oh well, I guess we can not have everything.  Maybe next year with new toy budget.


 


  Thanks. Have you had a chance to listen to or get reviews on the BL63 from a trusted ear?


----------



## jc9394

Danny (op) have a pair stashed away.  He said is better than TS.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great! Tease us with an artist now currently playing...


 

 David Ott: Concerto for Two Cellos and full orchestra (an on-location concert recording I made a couple of weeks ago).
   
  The PWD is excellent.  I am impressed.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wapiti, did you get the Bridge?  Give that puppy at least 300 hours before settle down, be prepar for the MK2 upgrade, it is ready on the 15th.


 

 Thanks for the advice!
   
  I plan to add the bridge at some point, but I already have a music server from which I can stream S/PDIF to the DAC.  Plus, a PWT will show up in a few more days.   
   
  I know the bridge replicates the digital lens in the PWT, but I am not currently using a NAS or other system that will connect to it.  Plus, I got the PWT new at an amazing price.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I think you have double the equipment I have, so if anyone knows anything, it's you!


 


  Sorry Mike...I really have to disagree with you here.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Tung-Sol 6F8G Tubes*
> 
> What to make of this seller's claim, Black Glass Rib Plates better than the Black Glass Round Plates? I've no idea,which is why I'm asking... and interested.
> 
> ...


 


  I've purchased from the seller and can confirm for you at least that he is an honest seller.  They never list any details on their auction page, but the picture tells you all you need to know since he photographs the actual item you'll be getting.  You might want to ask him what the testing scale is for the tubes before buying.  If the test range for a 6F8G is the same as for a 6SN7 then on his tester 50 represents mininum good (65% emissions), and new is somewhere in the 110 to 120 range.  So these tubes would be in the 85-90% range give or take.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've purchased from the seller and can confirm for you at least that he is an honest seller.  They never list any details on their auction page, but the picture tells you all you need to know since he photographs the actual item you'll be getting.  You might want to ask him what the testing scale is for the tubes before buying.  If the test range for a 6F8G is the same as for a 6SN7 then on his tester 50 represents mininum good (65% emissions), and new is somewhere in the 110 to 120 range.  So these tubes would be in the 85-90% range give or take.


 


  Thanks for having my back Xcalibur255, jc9394 & Skylab. Your contributions are highly valued. Just before dinner, Skylab agreed in principle to sell me his pair upon his return from overseas. Can't tell you how excited I am (_not true... I'm ecstatic!_).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> David Ott: Concerto for Two Cellos and full orchestra (an on-location concert recording I made a couple of weeks ago).
> 
> The PWD is excellent.  I am impressed.


 


  First, it's great to hear you're out and about doing what you love to do. Good music can have a positive impact on so many.... _and you're a part of that. _





  Would you kindly share more about the recording - bit depth, resolution, equipment...?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Danny (op) have a pair stashed away.  He said is better than TS.


 







  Danny.. the OP, holding out on us?! Please share details...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> SS, am interested in your take on the 3 as opposed to the 2.


 


  Sorry Mike I never had the LCD2's, but I was very interested in them until the rumors about the "Big Surprise" started, I decided to what and see what the "Big Surprise" was all about. So when the announcement was made about the LCD3's my goose was cooked and I jumped on the LCD3's band wagon. The bad news is I am still looking for my wallet after buying the LCD3's.
   
  Edit, that's strange the originally posted by name. It should read mikemalter.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Sorry Mike I never had the LCD2's, but I was very interested in them until the rumors about the "Big Surprise" started, I decided to what and see what the "Big Surprise" was all about. So when the announcement was made about the LCD3's my goose was cooked and I jumped on the LCD3's band wagon. The bad news is I am still looking for my wallet after buying the LCD3's.
> 
> Edit, that's strange the originally posted by name. It should read mikemalter.


 


  That "Originally posted name" is weird! Although the LCD-3's are out of reach for me, what I would like to learn is your opinion about their performance to value ratio. Is it priced about right or could those same funds be better spent another way.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Dammit SilentOne!  I can't sleep and you know why!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Dammit SilentOne!  I can't sleep and you know why!!!


 


  Two peas in a pod? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I wasn't even logged in when I received your PM. It was my night away from the listening room; was getting sleepy. And now? _My mind is racing! _If none of these WA22 owners make it easy for me, I'm gonna do my own thang and hit 'em with mono blocks!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (couldn't help myself)  Well, at least I can fire up some vintage Ella Fitzgerald. Just heard Bessie Smith on the internet singing "St Louis Blues" and she sounded sooooo good. Wish I had heard it on my amp.


----------



## Silent One

Just received a trial license for Audirvana Plus. Will see what my Woo thinks of it overnight... _now in session_.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for having my back Xcalibur255, jc9394 & Skylab. Your contributions are highly valued. Just before dinner, Skylab agreed in principle to sell me his pair upon his return from overseas. Can't tell you how excited I am (_not true... I'm ecstatic!_).


 


   
  Yup, Rob is the MAN...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yup, Rob is the MAN...


 


  I'm fortunate he was on the boards this afternoon...


----------



## Silent One

It's "Shake 'em up Saturday!" Had a Mac music player shootout:
   
  Before = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
    After = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
   
  No change in preference, however, Audirvana Plus did close the gap on Pure Music. Also, I noticed that Audirvana (Both Plus & Free versions) tend to sound better when mated with the EML Glass, Amarra with the USAF-596. Though the '596' does sound good with Audirvana, the EML seems to play to Audi's strengths.
   
  But due to cool down (waiting to change over tubes), I'd rather listen to Amarra/596 combo most of the time. I'm expecting a tube change in a couple of weeks, so let's see if anything else changes. Ran Raytheon 6SN7WGT-1949's with both Recs. Maybe Sunday I'll see if the RCA Grey Glass will upset the Peach cart. (not likely)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's "Shake 'em up Saturday!" Had a Mac music player shootout:
> 
> Before = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
> After = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
> ...


 

 how different is the differnce between the media players in terms of sound. like is it noticeable?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how different is the differnce between the media players in terms of sound. like is it noticeable?


 


  Yes, it is telling. The above comments are more of a note (a follow up) than a review. Because I addressed the players a few times the past few months. This morning I wanted to see if my preferences changed from October/November since I'm in a different place emitionally. Music is a dynamic and emotional experience (in my view).
   
  To better answer your question (Hold that thought! Angela Bofill is cooing inside my ear...), software music players are a lot like tubes in what sounds are emphasized (or not), soundstage, timbre and so on. And a change somewhere in the system may affect how you hear your favorite music player - better or worse. 
   
  And then there's your source, music library and headphones - all of them impact what you hear through your player. That is why I have four good players at minimum - Amarra; Pure Music; Audirvana; Audiogate (I guess the "A's" have it!!!)
   
  Can't recall what music player(s) you're using... ok, just checked my notes. iTunes will do and the latest version is improved. But I think you might be able to raise your Woo if you get JRiver Media Center or something. It could be all in my head but, using Boot Camp on the Mac, iTunes sounds better native in OS X than Windows. And using both computers iTunes sounded better on the Mac than on my PC. iTunes is really a database manager, the underlying engine is QuickTime.
   
  Your loving Woo deserves the extra attention, Dubstep Girl.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That "Originally posted name" is weird! Although the LCD-3's are out of reach for me, what I would like to learn is your opinion about their performance to value ratio. Is it priced about right or could those same funds be better spent another way.


 

 Yes that's a very good question, and as I have come to believe everything is relative.
  For instance I was happy as a clam with my HD-650's and Little Dot IV SE and stock tubes, this was my first headphone amp and headphones. 
  One thing is for sure the best headphone and value ratio for me is my HE6's at $995, so I will hear if the LCD-3 are worth $1000 dollars more. I doubt highly the same value ratio for the LCD-3's will be there compared to the value ratio of my HE6's. If I get a 20% increase in what I want from a headphone over my HE6's then yes to me the LCD-3 will be worth every penny.
  Anyway I will report back on the LCD-3 using my WA5LE and Liquid Fire amp's.
   
  btw, this is my first go around with any Audeze headphone..


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's "Shake 'em up Saturday!" Had a Mac music player shootout:
> 
> Before = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
> After = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
> ...


 

 Interesting how the source has such an impact.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No prob, SS.  I noticed the name change myself.  Who really knows the mysteries of our board's software.  I think they need servers with tubes in them and that would solve all of their problems.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Two peas in a pod?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Well now that you put that idea of turning two WA6SE's into mono blocks I can't stop thinking about it.   In fact I spent the  night dreaming about asking Jack to take two WA2's and build them without the internal preamp sections and turn them into mono blocks for me.  Mono block WA2's.  Don't even know if that is possible.  Now I have a dilemma.  Mono block WA6SE's or Mono block WA2's?   Don't even bring up black or silver...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's "Shake 'em up Saturday!" Had a Mac music player shootout:
> 
> Before = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
> After = 1. Amarra  2. Pure Music  3. Audirvana Plus
> ...


 
  Been using Audirvan plus all week.  I still prefer Amarra by a larger margin but Audirvana plus is closing the gap for sure and the price ratio is crazy.  Audirvana has  much better iTunes integration than it has had in the past and it also has a lot more options for playback than previous.   I did find a bug in the integration though.  When integrating with iTunes using the "date added" feature as the dominant list factor Audirvana tends to sometimes skip past a few tracks when it control the list.  
   
  I have not tried Pure Music so I cannot compare it.   There is for me a day and night difference between iTunes and Amarra and a large enough difference between Audvirana and iTunes to never use iTunes as the player again.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> First, it's great to hear you're out and about doing what you love to do. Good music can have a positive impact on so many.... _and you're a part of that. _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks!
   
  The main stereo pair was a spaced omni small diaphragm condenser pair into an Avalon AD2022 mic pre (fully discrete, Class A, dual mono, selectable mic input impedance, etc.) into a Tascam DV-RA1000HD.  While the Tascam is capable of DSD and 192/24, I typically record to 96/24 or 88.2/24.  I use a Focusrite Saffire PRO 40 for outriggers, etc. into a laptop via firewire.

 I have another gig this weekend recording a flute concerto and Beethoven symphony 1.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> Interesting how the source has such an impact.


 

 Indeed, especially when hard drive or SSD based. 
   
  I have heard differences in CD transports, but have never carefully compared computer playback sources.


----------



## 188479

Hi All:
   
  Quick question for the legion of Woo owners!  I'm thinking of joining your ranks...listen mostly to headphones but speakers sometimes, so the WA2 with the preamp out is looking like my choice.  I like everything I have read about it (which is a lot).  So my question, what are the best headphones for this amp?  The ones with the amazing symmetry where you just say they were made for each other.  Trying to put together a list of what phones would match well.  My musical tastes are all over the board, so that does not really help.  Thanks!


----------



## landgreen

Beyer T1 is a great match with the WA2. Get some TungSol 5998s and Amperex Gold Lions for the WA2 and it'll sound terrific with the T1.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





landgreen said:


> Beyer T1 is a great match with the WA2. Get some TungSol 5998s and Amperex Gold Lions for the WA2 and it'll sound terrific with the T1.


 


  X2.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Indeed, especially when hard drive or SSD based.
> 
> I have heard differences in CD transports, but have never carefully compared computer playback sources.


 


  When I first moved from mixing audio on analog and digital tape playbacks and record machines to hard drive based DAW's I could always tell what tracks were coming from tape based material and which were strictly hard drive content, created and mixed on hard drive based DAW's.   None of the clients could tell though and I never mentioned it to them.   Not good to rock the boat...     Source playback applications like Amarra are a long time coming for sure.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Anyone have any thoughts about turning 2 WA6SE's or 2 WA2's into mono blocks?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> When I first moved from mixing audio on analog and digital tape playbacks and record machines to hard drive based DAW's I could always tell what tracks were coming from tape based material and which were strictly hard drive content, created and mixed on hard drive based DAW's.


 

 Fascinating.  I can hear DAT as it is decoded, but not all convinced I would hear DAT after the data is transferred to a DAW given an otherwise equal chain.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Fascinating.  I can hear DAT as it is decoded, but not all convinced I would hear DAT after the data is transferred to a DAW given an otherwise equal chain.


 
  Don't even mention DAT to me.  I kick helpless puppies just at the thought of using that tiny little DAT tape and trying to transport it from one time code destination to another.  Especially if I had to sample the audio content to find the right place in dialogue or music as I went along.  I would just have an assistant transfer it to digibeta if there was time in the session.
   
  Todays DAW and the peripheral equipment probably makes it impossible to detect analog tape or digital tape as a source from a DAW source. but at the advent of the DAW and the cusp of analog/digital tape to DAW's it was pretty obvious to someone who sat all day mixing. To the clients?  they are always on the phone and never pay attention...unless it's the lunch menu then you get their undivided attention...or when it comes time to sign off on the hours and equipment to be billed for the days session...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Just got my 596. Now I just need the adapter!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Anyone have any thoughts about turning 2 WA6SE's or 2 WA2's into mono blocks?


 


  sounds expensive


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> sounds expensive


 
  2K or more depending on Jack I guess.  I have silentOne to blame for all this mono block business now.  He started it.  He's evil that way...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> 2K or more depending on Jack I guess.  I have silentOne to blame for all this mono block business now.  He started it.  He's evil that way...


 

  
  lol, he says i'm the evil one around here


----------



## Silent One

A pair of WA6SE mono blocks would be about the same as a WA22 (well for me because I already have a 'single') if one already had a good pre-amp. WarriorAnt already has the W4S DAC-2 with pre-amp function built-in. Get the stereo signal bridged and plug that bad boy in!
   
  My D7000's have separate channels from cup to jack. I would only need an XLR adapter at that point if I upgrade my DAC-1 to DAC. I had been trying to free up a WA22 this past summer from current owners... _with an extra bag of cash mind you._
   
  It was not to be. But blocking my 6 SE could/will be. Woo Audio has long done blocks for customers and Jack recommended I get a good pre-amp and I would be fat & happy (Mardi Gras style?).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  By mentioning "A good pre-amp" perhaps, Jack was trying to sell me a WA2 at the same time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> 2K or more depending on Jack I guess.  I have silentOne to blame for all this mono block business now.  He started it.  He's evil that way...


 


  I thought it was mere coincidence that you and jc9394 "damned" me in the same Friday evening. How is this possible, I spend most of my days and nights being silent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Just got my 596. Now I just need the adapter!


 


  You're on your way! Have you ordered the adapter yet? If for some reason you order, say from Glenn, and there's a delay in parts or something, I'll send you mine from the East Bay for a week.




   
  Just woke up last hour. And just realized you have a '22.' At least Silent One has your back!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Don't even mention DAT to me.  I kick helpless puppies just at the thought of using that tiny little DAT tape and trying to transport it from one time code destination to another.  Especially if I had to sample the audio content to find the right place in dialogue or music as I went along.  I would just have an assistant transfer it to digibeta if there was time in the session.
> 
> Todays DAW and the peripheral equipment probably makes it impossible to detect analog tape or digital tape as a source from a DAW source. but at the advent of the DAW and the cusp of analog/digital tape to DAW's it was pretty obvious to someone who sat all day mixing. To the clients?  they are always on the phone and never pay attention...unless it's the lunch menu then you get their undivided attention...or when it comes time to sign off on the hours and equipment to be billed for the days session...


 


  Out of mutual respect, I spent ALL of 2011 making sure that my field recorder remain nameless in this thread. As fate would have it, the thread almost made it until 31 December, but...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Anyone have any thoughts about turning 2 WA6SE's or 2 WA2's into mono blocks?


 


  The WA2 makes for an interesting thought. Euphonic meets Reserve... and you'd have both!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Todays DAW and the peripheral equipment probably makes it impossible to detect analog tape or digital tape as a source from a DAW source. but at the advent of the DAW and the cusp of analog/digital tape to DAW's it was pretty obvious to someone who sat all day mixing.


 
   
  Makes sense.  It must have made you a bit seasick.  I find inconsistent sounding stems, etc. a bit disorienting.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Out of mutual respect, I spent ALL of 2011 making sure that my field recorder remain nameless in this thread.


 
   
  The little portables are amazing.  I often use my Tascam DR-1 as a backup in case something goes wrong with the main equipment.  Given a nice line level signal the DR-1 sounds better than it should.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Indeed, especially when hard drive or SSD based.
> 
> I have heard differences in CD transports, but have never carefully compared computer playback sources.


 


  I spent a lot of time looking into this once upon a time, thinking that bit perfect should be a snap in the PC world.  Turns out it is not nearly that simple, and depending upon how the software AND hardware handles the signal there can indeed be considerable differences in SQ.  In the world of Windows I've found nothing better than J River Media Center.  They use a true 64-bit data path path and support every bit streaming output option in existence.  Compared to letting DirectSound touch the audio signal path the difference is night and day, like adding or removing your DAC from the setup.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> The little portables are amazing.  I often use my Tascam DR-1 as a backup in case something goes wrong with the main equipment.  Given a nice line level signal the DR-1 sounds better than it should.


 


  Earlier this Winter, I casually mentioned the dreaded "D" word to WarriorAnt (Delta Alpha Tango) _and he was no more good!_ He became haunted in ways like Halloween has never seen! Took a few months for him to stop cursing, spitting and throwing up. So, I voluntarily took steps to help a head-fi brother out... and watch my mouth!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I spent a lot of time looking into this once upon a time, thinking that bit perfect should be a snap in the PC world.  Turns out it is not nearly that simple, and depending upon how the software AND hardware handles the signal there can indeed be considerable differences in SQ.  In the world of Windows I've found nothing better than J River Media Center.  They use a true 64-bit data path path and support every bit streaming output option in existence.  Compared to letting DirectSound touch the audio signal path the difference is night and day, like adding or removing your DAC from the setup.


 


  If Dubstep Girl is happy now with her iTunes based solution, wait 'till she gets a better player. She'll be so focused under her headphones, her family will have to start bringing her dinner to the room! I suggested JRiver Media Center to her earlier this morning in a bit of coincidence.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I ordered the adapter on Thursday.  Thanks for the offer.  I shouldn't have to wait too long.  
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're on your way! Have you ordered the adapter yet? If for some reason you order, say from Glenn, and there's a delay in parts or something, I'll send you mine from the East Bay for a week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The WA2 makes for an interesting thought. Euphonic meets Reserve... and you'd have both!


 


  I'm thinking mono block WA2's without the preamp circuitry,  two nice blocks, but then the WA6SE would be nice looking with two amp blocks and two power supplies...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If Dubstep Girl is happy now with her iTunes based solution, wait 'till she gets a better player. She'll be so focused under her headphones, her family will have to start bringing her dinner to the room! I suggested JRiver Media Center to her earler this morning in a bit of coincidence.


 


  i've been thinking about it, just dunno how it will work with my iphone/ipod.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hi All:
> 
> Quick question for the legion of Woo owners!  I'm thinking of joining your ranks...listen mostly to headphones but speakers sometimes, so the WA2 with the preamp out is looking like my choice.  I like everything I have read about it (which is a lot).  So my question, what are the best headphones for this amp?  The ones with the amazing symmetry where you just say they were made for each other.  Trying to put together a list of what phones would match well.  My musical tastes are all over the board, so that does not really help.  Thanks!


 

 I have a preference for the HD800 headphone.  From my perspective and tastes I find that they go down as deep as you can go while at the same time remain delicate to transmit detail and nuance.  I find them netural sounding and fast.  Just my 2 cents.
   
  Also, think about a replacement for the stock headphone cable whatever brand you settle on as I think that even people with differences over brands will mostly agree that a really good headphone cable will bring out the best.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i've been thinking about it, just dunno how it will work with my iphone/ipod.


 


  "How" it will work with your iPhone & iPod? It will work great (they're supported). Additionally, there's even a iPhone-iPod-iTouch remote client for JRiver Media Center. I sit in both an L-shape & U-shape configuration for my two rigs... so close I'd probably have to back up just to use the remote.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm thinking mono block WA2's without the preamp circuitry,  two nice blocks, but then the WA6SE would be nice looking with two amp blocks and two power supplies...


 

 WA6SE Mono Blocks --
   
  I would nickname the dual twin chassis design set up, in all black cladding, "Baby Sinister."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> I have a preference for the HD800 headphone.  From my perspective and tastes I find that they go down as deep as you can go while at the same time remain delicate to transmit detail and nuance.  I find them netural sounding and fast.  Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Also, think about a replacement for the stock headphone cable whatever brand you settle on as I think that even people with differences over brands will mostly agree that a really good headphone cable will bring out the best.


 

 +2
   
  Me? I wouldn't allow a brand new headphone to leave the dealer/mfg without being re-cabled. Stock cables are fine... and so is the profit-margin for Mfg's supplying them. Not sure about the 009's, I'd take 'em any which way I could get 'em!


----------



## xinque

I've actually only been using iTunes.  Does it sound different and better with other software?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> If Dubstep Girl is happy now with her iTunes based solution, wait 'till she gets a better player. She'll be so focused under her headphones, her family will have to start bringing her dinner to the room! I suggested JRiver Media Center to her earlier this morning in a bit of coincidence.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Can anyone recommend any cheap/simple silicone or rubber isolation feet to place under an amp or transport?


----------



## dminches

Vibrapods are nice and inexpensive.
   
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VBCONE
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Can anyone recommend any cheap/simple silicone or rubber isolation feet to place under an amp or transport?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I spent a lot of time looking into this once upon a time, thinking that bit perfect should be a snap in the PC world.  Turns out it is not nearly that simple, and depending upon how the software AND hardware handles the signal there can indeed be considerable differences in SQ.  In the world of Windows I've found nothing better than J River Media Center.  They use a true 64-bit data path path and support every bit streaming output option in existence.  Compared to letting DirectSound touch the audio signal path the difference is night and day, like adding or removing your DAC from the setup.


 


  Playing with the demo now, which output mode do you use?


----------



## Xcalibur255

I use ASIO because I have a dedicated soundcard which supports it.  What's available to you depends upon your audio hardware support, but the output modes are basically listed in order of desirability starting with ASIO and WASAPI (which should be indistinguishable from each other).  Even if your hardware doesn't support exclusive device access you should still be able to use kernel streaming which will bypass the windows Kmixer and Direct Sound.  Those are the two evils that make everything sound like junk in Windows.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Vibrapods are nice and inexpensive.
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VBCONE


 

 Thanks, I'll look into those.  I can't say I buy their claims of better imaging or transparency though, I'm just looking to tame tube microphonics.  I'm having pretty rotten luck finding power tubes that don't transmit every little tap and touch on my desk so far.  Power tubes in general are a new game for me since my WA6 doesn't use any, so who knows maybe they are just like this most of the time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> I've actually only been using iTunes.  Does it sound different and better with other software?


 


  Are you referring to playback quality? In my quiet opinion, I like other options over iTunes for playback and think they all return better sound than iTunes and its playback engine (QuickTime). I would like to add the latest version of iTunes sounds good. Simply, there are better options depending on how discriminating you are. I only recently acquired my preferred player last month - Amarra 2.3.2.(4315) is quite the player! I like Pure Music as well.
   
  I feel Audirvana Plus has been emerging nicely and it's smartly priced - great bang for the buck! This is if you're on the 'OS X 'side of the fence. Most players offer 15 day trials. For me, one of the great things this hobby affords is exploration... play time, if you would. Who doesn't like to experiment in this hobby?! Eventually will use JRM myself on one of the Windows computers here.  As well as try newer stripped down Windows players for audiophiles. 
   
  But let me be clear, the Mac system is the primary system. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And Amarra makes for a great pairing.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I use ASIO because I have a dedicated soundcard which supports it.  What's available to you depends upon your audio hardware support, but the output modes are basically listed in order of desirability starting with ASIO and WASAPI (which should be indistinguishable from each other).  Even if your hardware doesn't support exclusive device access you should still be able to use kernel streaming which will bypass the windows Kmixer and Direct Sound.  Those are the two evils that make everything sound like junk in Windows.


 

 I'm using a W4S DAC2 via USB, it doesn't seem to like ASIO, but WASAPI works fine. Which is what I was using with Foobar2000, but this is definitely a smoother implementation and a slicker interface that the foo.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I'm using a W4S DAC2 via USB, it doesn't seem to like ASIO, but WASAPI works fine. Which is what I was using with Foobar2000, but this is definitely a smoother implementation and a slicker interface that the foo.
> 
> Cheers.


 

 I'd be interested to learn what's keeping ASIO tripped up?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd be interested to learn what's keeping ASIO tripped up?


 


  In the ASIO settings it's greyed out, simply stating that "no ASIO devices detected".
  Though it does list it in the same tab under Volume Devices.
   
  Dunno. WASAPI is fine. I can't say that it sounds any better or different than Foobar, but it is a better piece of software, that is for sure.


----------



## mikemalter

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you are using the W4S DAC2 via USB, how come you are not using their drivers?  They put the computer into slave mode to the DAC and reduces a lot of jitter.  Music through their drivers always sounded better than everything else.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





mikemalter said:


> If you are using the W4S DAC2 via USB, how come you are not using their drivers?  They put the computer into slave mode to the DAC and reduces a lot of jitter.  Music through their drivers always sounded better than everything else.


 


  I am using their drivers. You still have to choose an output method in the software being used, as per their manuals, choose their driver, which I do.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Enabling exclusive mode is the other key to getting good sound in windows 7.  Only the direct streaming methods like ASIO and WASAPI allow it, so if there is no driver level support for any of those things in an individual's PC then they are up a creek so to speak.  One of the nice things about J River is that it will not relinquish exclusive control of the audio device even if windows requests it, basically meaning that windows sound effects or system sounds can't kick the playback out of exclusive mode.  J River will only relinquish control if you stop playback.... lots of other players don't do this and let Windows hijack the audio device if it wants to and once this happens you are in shared mode and your SQ has taken a hit.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm sounds like i might have to give this  jriver thingy a try


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm sounds like i might have to give this  jriver thingy a try


 


  Collectively, we're trying to raise your system up a level.


----------



## Silent One

"Hog mode" (exclusive access) is great! I kind of liken it to not letting your peas & carrots mix together on the same plate.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Can anyone recommend any cheap/simple silicone or rubber isolation feet to place under an amp or transport?


 


  A friend of mine uses these under his Lyr amp.   He loves them.  I might get some myself.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Audio-Vibration-Isolation-Damper-Feet-4-Pcs-/300584676648?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc3e2d28#ht_1658wt_1163




    


   
  http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tweaks&m=178794


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Collectively, we're trying to raise your system up a level.


 


  aww thanks, you're all very sweet


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I am using their drivers. You still have to choose an output method in the software being used, as per their manuals, choose their driver, which I do.


 
  Looks like the windows driver is very different than the Mac's.  Actually there is no seperate software interface for the DAC-2 on the Mac. it's all done through the Audio MIDI software and even then there isn't much to do.  there is no Buffering choice from "More skip resistant" to "More responsive" option like there is above.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> aww thanks, you're all very sweet


 


  Just think, your Woo/JRM combo will enhance your Call of Duty MW3 experience!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Looks like the windows driver is very different than the Mac's.  Actually there is no seperate software interface for the DAC-2 on the Mac. it's all done through the Audio MIDI software and even then there isn't much to do.  there is no Buffering choice from "More skip resistant" to "More responsive" option like there is above.


 


  I only need drivers for the DAC-1 if I'm using USB. But I use a bridge with Coax & Optical; bridge has its own hi-speed 2.0 USB drivers (C-media). But you're right, I see very few options on the Mac side. I do have all of this to deal with on Windows too, though - E-MU 0404 USB & ASIO... buffering, latency and so on.


----------



## Silent One

Did I miss something? Wasn't Woo Audio set to debut their own headphones this autumn?


----------



## WarriorAnt

OK guys laugh at me if you want.  SilentOne has put me up to this.   I'm going to email Jack to ask him if he can build for me at a reasonable cost a WA2 mono block rig.  I'm going to ask him to take out all pre amp circuitry that is inherent in the WA2 design, then in each mono block mono the circuitry balanced in and out with no volume controls, straight line into each block.  I'll be using a separate pre amp.   Thoughts?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> OK guys laugh at me if you want.  SilentOne has put me up to this.   I'm going to email Jack to ask him if he can build for me at a reasonable cost a WA2 mono block rig.  I'm going to ask him to take out all pre amp circuitry that is inherent in the WA2 design, then in each mono block mono the circuitry balanced in and out with no volume controls, straight line into each block.  I'll be using a separate pre amp.   Thoughts?


 


  sounds like a great idea!! good luck, hope jack does it for ya!
   
  im just gonna get a regular stock WA2 in the winter. hopefully i can upgrade some tubes for it too though, i want something super smooth and warm


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> A friend of mine uses these under his Lyr amp.   He loves them.  I might get some myself.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Audio-Vibration-Isolation-Damper-Feet-4-Pcs-/300584676648?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc3e2d28#ht_1658wt_1163
> 
> ...


 

  
  I'll look into these too, thanks.  I see Herbie also makes one.  Honestly I'd rather just find a pair of 6AS7 that behave themselves, but this might be easier.  This has been a lesson learned in buying tubes in advance of the equipment they'll go in, as I have two unusable pairs sitting in front of me because they pop and crackle in the amp.


----------



## sillysally

I used the IsoNode Pro Anti-Vibration Feet large under my WA6SE, however I didn't hear much difference except maybe a little dampening when I was using a glass rack. When I went to a rack that was made for this type of gear I didn't see the need for them at all. 
   
  I look at it this way, if I have to use things like anti vibration feet/rings etc, then the tubes or amp are not properly designed or are faulty.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Looks like the windows driver is very different than the Mac's.  Actually there is no seperate software interface for the DAC-2 on the Mac. it's all done through the Audio MIDI software and even then there isn't much to do.  there is no Buffering choice from "More skip resistant" to "More responsive" option like there is above.


 


  This is the Jriver output options. The driver itself for the DAC2 on the PC, well there isn´t much there either. Supported sampling rates can be enabled and disabled but other than that, you're just seeing jRiver's output options. Foobar's is very similar.


----------



## Silent One

If you email him tonight, you could hear back from him between Midnight & Sunday brunch via Twitter (well, I'm an optimist).


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> OK guys laugh at me if you want.  SilentOne has put me up to this.   I'm going to email Jack to ask him if he can build for me at a reasonable cost a WA2 mono block rig.  I'm going to ask him to take out all pre amp circuitry that is inherent in the WA2 design, then in each mono block mono the circuitry balanced in and out with no volume controls, straight line into each block.  I'll be using a separate pre amp.   Thoughts?


 

 LoL, that's even funnier than you post about rethinking headphones after buying a $80 pair of headphones and posting it on the high end forums.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> This is the Jriver output options. The driver itself for the DAC2 on the PC, well there isn´t much there either. Supported sampling rates can be enabled and disabled but other than that, you're just seeing jRiver's output options. Foobar's is very similar.


 


  Thanks for the insight... and preventing me from running toward traffic on a One-Way street. I stand corrected.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I used the IsoNode Pro Anti-Vibration Feet large under my WA6SE, however I didn't hear much difference except maybe a little dampening when I was using a glass rack. When I went to a rack that was made for this type of gear I didn't see the need for them at all.
> 
> I look at it this way, if I have to use things like anti vibration feet/rings etc, then the tubes or amp are not properly designed or are faulty.


 

 I've always wondered about vibrations with tube power amps in speaker rigs.   When I had tube power mono blocks I alway wondered if the vibrations from the music in the room was affecting and vibrating the tubes, especially with the subwoofers kicked in.   Most folks keep their amps pretty close to the speakers.  Tube rings weren't in the mainstream of tweaks yet when I owned my amps so I never got to try them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I look at it this way, if I have to use things like anti vibration feet/rings etc, then the tubes or amp are not properly designed or are faulty.


 


  This is pretty much how I feel too, but I'm just looking at my options in the face of several worthless pairs of tubes.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> LoL, that's even funnier than you post about rethinking headphones after buying a $80 pair of headphones and posting it on the high end forums.


 


  I know what you mean!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If you email him tonight, you could hear back from him between Midnight & Sunday brunch via Twitter (well, I'm an optimist).


 


  No I'll wait for business hours to bother him!   He's going to think I'm insane already, don't want to hound him on Saturday night when he's in the middle of a bottle of Bordeaux...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> No I'll wait for business hours to bother him!   He's going to think I'm insane already, don't want to hound him on Saturday night when he's in the middle of a bottle of Bordeaux...


 


  Yes. But if you use the contact form on the website, he'll collect inquiries from there at his convenience or leisure.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

after much reading, i have decided to skip the LCD2 (will buy if i still have cash) and buy the WA2/T1 combo for x-mas
   
  im starting to look at tubes for WA2 to plan my buy. 
   
  anyone got any ideas?


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This is pretty much how I feel too, but I'm just looking at my options in the face of several worthless pairs of tubes.


 

 This may sound stupid, but some guys I know use thick, heavy Ikea wooden chopping boards as cheap isolation platforms under their amps and CDPs. They think of it as a poor man's vibration reduction system in the face of pricey footers and platforms. If your amp is picking up keyboard strokes and small taps on your desk then this might be a cheap solution.


----------



## Wapiti

And a racquetball cut in half makes a nice cheap vibration absorber/isolator.  (Vibrapods are great also and inexpensive.)
   
  All tubes are microphonic to a degree.  To solve the tap-on-desk-transmitted-to-the-amp problem will take isolation.  This will be a bit tricky in finding a setup that works.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've always wondered about vibrations with tube power amps in speaker rigs.   When I had tube power mono blocks I alway wondered if the vibrations from the music in the room was affecting and vibrating the tubes, especially with the subwoofers kicked in.   Most folks keep their amps pretty close to the speakers.  Tube rings weren't in the mainstream of tweaks yet when I owned my amps so I never got to try them.


 


  Well yes it causes vibration but depending on the tubes you use and the rooms acoustics can pretty much reduce vibration to a non factor. Any quality sound room will have there amps/computers etc in a separate room, of course in today's sound rooms most equipment is SS and computer controlled but still in a separate room. The only thing you will see is a mixing board and speakers in a high quality sound room. The biggest reason to separate audio and video equipment is to eliminate any ambient noise in a sound room and that also includes air vents. In a home theater poetically with a projector ambient noise is a big problem, because of fan noise from the projector and therefore drowns out a lot of fine detail, unless you take steps to isolate the projector from the viewing room.
   
  imo the biggest problem is ambient noise in a room when using headphones like your LCD2's, you will loose some of the delicate/background details of the audio. imo tubes that have a filament may be affected by vibrations, the rest of the smaller kind of tubes (dual triode) that we use in are Woo's probably will not be affected by vibrations. Of-course this is saying you are using hq tubes and good sockets that hold the tube.
   
  In my WA5LE's amp using my WE300B's (filament tubes) there is NP with vibration and in my psu I use the EML 5U4G mesh plate (filament) with NP there, and same goes for my tsrp 6SN7GT's (dual triode).
   
  So what I am saying before you go nuts over the vibration, look first at where your amp placement is and ambient noise coming from things like computers/fans etc.


----------



## Pete-FIN

Long time reader, first time writer. Heres my first post.

 My history of headphone-hifi started two years ago with Audio-GD Compass and Sennheiser HD650. Later came Lehmann audio BCL (which was exelent amp for HD650) and DacMagic.

 After listening T1 and HD800 at my local hifi-dealer, I knew I had to upgrade. After listening bouth cans at home, my pick was T1. Beyers were not the ideal match to Lehmann, so I started to search another amp.

 A fellow head-fier Jantze was selling hes fully maxxed WA6. I was a bit sceptical that could it drive my T1's, but after listening the combination at Finlands annual headphone-meet, my scepticism was gone and deal was made.

 My current set up is: redbook/PC -> Audiolab 8200CD -> maxxed WA6 (Sophia Princess, 6DE7) -> T1/HF2
  




 I'm very satisfied with my current set up. Smooth, transparent and dynamic sound combined with T1.s superb wearing comfort gives me long and pleasent listenig sessions. I think it might be very hard for me to go back to solid state, tubes ar here to stay.

 Next thing in my ever lasting quest for better audio experience, is try to get slightly darker sound. Maybe different source. Or, if I find (narrow)6FD7 tubes, they might do the trick.

 Anyway, just thought to 'unite' with other Woo-fans.

 Headphone listening has always been close to my heart. I tried speakers for some time, but always returned useing headphones
   
  /Pete
   
  edit: fixed the pics


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Well yes it causes vibration but depending on the tubes you use and the rooms acoustics can pretty much reduce vibration to a non factor. Any quality sound room will have there amps/computers etc in a separate room, of course in today's sound rooms most equipment is SS and computer controlled but still in a separate room. The only thing you will see is a mixing board and speakers in a high quality sound room. The biggest reason to separate audio and video equipment is to eliminate any ambient noise in a sound room and that also includes air vents. In a home theater poetically with a projector ambient noise is a big problem, because of fan noise from the projector and therefore drowns out a lot of fine detail, unless you take steps to isolate the projector from the viewing room.
> 
> imo the biggest problem is ambient noise in a room when using headphones like your LCD2's, you will loose some of the delicate/background details of the audio. imo tubes that have a filament may be affected by vibrations, the rest of the smaller kind of tubes (dual triode) that we use in are Woo's probably will not be affected by vibrations. Of-course this is saying you are using hq tubes and good sockets that hold the tube.
> 
> ...


 
  Well I'm speaking more in terms of ones home setup where typically the amps are between the speakers, and if there is a subwoofer or two in the case of the speaker setup I had for many years,  they could really add to the rooms vibrations.  A few designers have told me that the vibrations from the speakers can actually create a very subtle loop back into the power tubes perhaps adding to even harmonic distortions. 

 In terms of mixing rooms I've worked in dozens over the years in NYC and CT.  In theory you want the room to be as quiet as possible but there is always something that tests the skills of the editor/mixer.  Producers, 2,3,4, at a time constantly on the phone while you are editing, sometimes asking if you can turn the speaker volume down as you are trying to edit and mix their costly production because they are on the phone and they can't hear.    I've been in rooms where long running shows and the production crew have taken over the room for months and the producers/directors/assistants have basically moved in bringing odd things into the room that make noise like gym equipment, exercise bikes, stomach crunchers,  air purifiers to remove cigar smoke, whirring endlessly.  There is always some constant force making lots of noise in a majority of sessions.  You have to get used to it, work around it and learn to focus.  Personally I always welcomed the more in a room the merrier.  Beats having just one person in there with you for 12 hours especially if that person in not very interesting.
   

 In my home now I don't get much ambient noise when I listen to the LCD because I use them when everyone is sleeping, the biggest problem with them so far is that I actually have to close to door in the room because apparently sound leeks from the LCD's and at 2AM my wife can hear it if the door to the room I'm in is open and the bedroom door is still open.  The two rooms are next to each other.  
   
  As far as noise isolation problems with speaker rigs for me no matter house I've lived in or what type of refrigerator I've owned the compressor sound has always bothered me.  I can always seem to hear it.  My solution was always to unplug the refrigerator for late night listening and invariably I'd of course forget to plug it back in.  I must have done that an endless amount of times.
   
   
   
  As far as asking Jack about mono block WA2's. it's still on...I'm sure he'll explain to me why I don't want to do that but I'm very curious about mono WA2's or WA6SE's...


----------



## grokit

Mono-blocked WA2s = WA22, pretty much.
   
  Pete-FIN, welcome to the best forum @ Head-fi. Sorry about your wallet!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Mono-blocked WA2s = WA22, pretty much.
> 
> Pete-FIN, welcome to the best forum @ Head-fi. Sorry about your wallet!


 

 The WA2 has two of every tube including the rectifiers; the WA22 has two of every tube but the rectifier. Does it still mean that: Mono-blocked WA2s = WA22?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The WA2 has two of every tube including the rectifiers; the WA22 has two of every tube but the rectifier. Does it still mean that: Mono-blocked WA2s = WA22?


 


  the WA22 has a different sound than the WA2 though doesn't it? so i don't think so.


----------



## grokit

Both amps are OTL, and both are described by Woo as being on the "euphonic" side of their sound signature. I think that their designs must be pretty similar but I'm not an electrical guy.
   
  Intuitively I've always felt that the WA2 is like half of a WA22


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Both amps are OTL, and both are described by Woo as being on the "euphonic" side of their sound signature. I think that their designs must be pretty similar but I'm not an electrical guy.
> 
> Intuitively I've always felt that the WA2 is like half of a WA22


 

 WA22 = WA2 + 2


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA22 = WA2 + 2


 

 Exactly


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA22 = WA2 + 2


 

 Ah, Woo math.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA22 = WA2 + 2


 


  WA2 +WA2 =  isolated channels and separate power supplies= WA22+


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> after much reading, i have decided to skip the LCD2 (will buy if i still have cash) and buy the WA2/T1 combo for x-mas
> 
> im starting to look at tubes for WA2 to plan my buy.
> 
> anyone got any ideas?


 


  If you like fast, clean and neutral sounding then you have to put the 5998 on your list for power tubes.  They've gotten expensive but I think they are still worth it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Both amps are OTL, and both are described by Woo as being on the "euphonic" side of their sound signature. I think that their designs must be pretty similar but I'm not an electrical guy.
> 
> Intuitively I've always felt that the WA2 is like half of a WA22


 


  FWIW the WA22 isn't OTL, it is a transformer coupled push-pull design.  I've always found it curious how peole describe the WA22 as being very lush sounding when push pull designs are known for leaning to the SS-ish side of things by tube standards.  Apparently there is less even order harmonic distortion (the kind that makes tube amps.... uh, tubey) with this circuit topology.


----------



## knowhatimean

Almost 16k replies ? You guys seem to like these amps huh? I may have to check one out (If & when I feel the need to try something other than my Lyr, but it's always good to try new "toys" so who knows?)


----------



## Xcalibur255

My thanks to everybody who weighed in with isolation ideas.  I think the reality is that I've had bum luck with the tubes I've bought so far, so I'm just going to keep at it until I have a couple of good pairs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pete-fin said:


> Long time reader, first time writer. Heres my first post.
> 
> My history of headphone-hifi started two years ago with Audio-GD Compass and Sennheiser HD650. Later came Lehmann audio BCL (which was exelent amp for HD650) and DacMagic.
> 
> ...


 


  Welcome Pete! It's always great to be able to see the World of Audio through the Woo of another's. Glad you fixed the pix, this thread loves to see more candy in the display!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Mono-blocked WA2s = WA22, pretty much.
> 
> Pete-FIN, welcome to the best forum @ Head-fi. Sorry about your wallet!


 


  Mono blocked WA6SE's wouldn't be equal because they'd (I'd) have two isolated power supplies.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well I'm speaking more in terms of ones home setup where typically the amps are between the speakers, and if there is a subwoofer or two in the case of the speaker setup I had for many years,  they could really add to the rooms vibrations.  A few designers have told me that the vibrations from the speakers can actually create a very subtle loop back into the power tubes perhaps adding to even harmonic distortions.
> 
> In terms of mixing rooms I've worked in dozens over the years in NYC and CT.  In theory you want the room to be as quiet as possible but there is always something that tests the skills of the editor/mixer.  Producers, 2,3,4, at a time constantly on the phone while you are editing, sometimes asking if you can turn the speaker volume down as you are trying to edit and mix their costly production because they are on the phone and they can't hear.    I've been in rooms where long running shows and the production crew have taken over the room for months and the producers/directors/assistants have basically moved in bringing odd things into the room that make noise like gym equipment, exercise bikes, stomach crunchers,  air purifiers to remove cigar smoke, whirring endlessly.  There is always some constant force making lots of noise in a majority of sessions.  You have to get used to it, work around it and learn to focus.  Personally I always welcomed the more in a room the merrier.  Beats having just one person in there with you for 12 hours especially if that person in not very interesting.
> 
> ...


 







  A refrigerator unplugged..._ in the Sonoran Desert?! _You're a true audiophile!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> FWIW the WA22 isn't OTL, it is a transformer coupled push-pull design.  I've always found it curious how peole describe the WA22 as being very lush sounding when push pull designs are known for leaning to the SS-ish side of things by tube standards.  Apparently there is less even order harmonic distortion (the kind that makes tube amps.... uh, tubey) with this circuit topology.


 


  Ideally, I'd like to have both designs. I want some sessions to be down right dreamy. But other sessions, I want them to hit hard and be focused... on hitting harder!!!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you like fast, clean and neutral sounding then you have to put the 5998 on your list for power tubes.  They've gotten expensive but I think they are still worth it.


 


  anybody got a good place to buy 5998's?
 i have one in my 3 and i like it a lot.  by far the best tube i've put in it.  but i can't find any on ebay or tube depot.  depot only has some varient called a 5998a or something and it looks a bit different and im not sure it sounds the same...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ideally, I'd like to have both designs. I want some sessions to be down right dreamy. But other sessions, I want them to hit hard and be focused... on hitting harder!!!


 


  Reading this actually brought a bit of clarity to something I've been struggling with the past couple of days.  Thank you.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody got a good place to buy 5998's?
> i have one in my 3 and i like it a lot.  by far the best tube i've put in it.  but i can't find any on ebay or tube depot.  depot only has some varient called a 5998a or something and it looks a bit different and im not sure it sounds the same...


 


  Radio Electric Supply (vacuumtubes.net) is about the only place that seems to have steady supply these days and isn't priced obnoxiously.  I hesitate to recommend them now because I've gotten some bad tubes from them (shorts), but I also think my experience may be atypical of them in fairness.  I have two pairs of 5998 tubes from them, one pair sounds great and the other (which are actually Chatham 2399, which is a 5998 with copper grid posts and wire) is very microphonic.  That is half of what sparked my earlier question about damping devices for the amp.  The 2399 is a little sweeter sounding but IMO not worth tracking down due to their rarity.  vacuumtubes.net considers them all the same tube (which they essentially are) so I got a pair purely by chance.
   
  The 5998A is a plain jane 6AS7 and isn't worth more than a few dollars FYI.  Beware eBay sellers trying to sell these as real 5998 tubes.


----------



## Rawrbington

very nice Xcalibur!
  thank you.
  and 45$ isn't bad compared to what i've seen elsewhere for the tung sol 5998


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Radio Electric Supply (vacuumtubes.net) is about the only place that seems to have steady supply these days and isn't priced obnoxiously.  I hesitate to recommend them now because I've gotten some bad tubes from them (shorts), but I also think my experience may be atypical of them in fairness.  I have two pairs of 5998 tubes from them, one pair sounds great and the other (which are actually Chatham 2399, which is a 5998 with copper grid posts and wire) is very microphonic.  That is half of what sparked my earlier question about damping devices for the amp.  The 2399 is a little sweeter sounding but IMO not worth tracking down due to their rarity.  vacuumtubes.net considers them all the same tube (which they essentially are) so I got a pair purely by chance.
> 
> The 5998A is a plain jane 6AS7 and isn't worth more than a few dollars FYI.  Beware eBay sellers trying to sell these as real 5998 tubes.


 

 Yep, last year I had to send the pair I bought off them back too. It was no questions asked, full refund.
   
  However, the 596's I just received do look NOS. Waiting for Glenn's adapter before I can test them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Reading this actually brought a bit of clarity to something I've been struggling with the past couple of days.  Thank you.


 


  This is good to hear! Now you can return to being the Xcalibur255 we've come to know and learn from in this thread.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody heard the western electric 421A?
  does it sound any better than the 5998?  because it darn sure costs a ton more


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> This may sound stupid, but some guys I know use thick, heavy Ikea wooden chopping boards as cheap isolation platforms under their amps and CDPs. They think of it as a poor man's vibration reduction system in the face of pricey footers and platforms. If your amp is picking up keyboard strokes and small taps on your desk then this might be a cheap solution.


 


_Red hot and rolling..._
   
  Is the_ '596 Express'_ still on track and on-time? Or has the route with this tube proved to be rough and uneven? Hope to hear you still enjoy where the '596' is taking you.


----------



## Silent One

If memory serves, Vinyllp33 owns the Western Electric 421A. Hopefully, he'll see your post. -- Correction: he bought the Western Electric 422A.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody heard the western electric 421A?
> does it sound any better than the 5998?  because it darn sure costs a ton more


 


  Same tube.  Although, an apparently little known fact is that they actually have even more gain than a 5998 does.  Me thinks this is why the people who have them think they sound better.  I would think the 421A went through more screening than your standard Tung Sol did so that could account for some of it too.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> FWIW the WA22 isn't OTL, it is a transformer coupled push-pull design.  I've always found it curious how peole describe the WA22 as being very lush sounding when push pull designs are known for leaning to the SS-ish side of things by tube standards.  Apparently there is less even order harmonic distortion (the kind that makes tube amps.... uh, tubey) with this circuit topology.


 
   
  Whoops 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Thanks for the correction, I don't want to be the source of faulty information!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Almost 16k replies ? You guys seem to like these amps huh? I may have to check one out (If & when I feel the need to try something other than my Lyr, but it's always good to try new "toys" so who knows?)


 
   
   
_"Almost 16k replies?"_
  
  Some of us even remember where we were when ordering our Woo. I placed my order early Monday morning (before my first bowl of green tea) _12,373 posts ago_. I believe 'mikemalter' had the first post of the day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having followed the thread in advance of ordering, it satisfies me to report I am pleased with both Woo Audio amps and the Woo Audio Owner Unite thread.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Quote:WarriorAnt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Red hot and rolling..._
> 
> Is the_ '596 Express'_ still on track and on-time? Or has the route with this tube proved to be rough and uneven? Hope to hear you still enjoy where the '596' is taking you.


 


 Actually I just used both my 596s for a few hours each to verify that they work fine before swapping them out for a Brimar 5R4GY. If the 596s give me such a good impression without being burnt in, then I'd better try out all my other unused rectifers before getting spoilt silly by the 596. The 596 should be back in by end december once I'm done with the Brimar, then I can do my rectifier shootout after the 596 has settled.


----------



## grokit

Looking forward to it, can never get enough WA22 rectifier comparisons!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"Almost 16k replies?"_
> 
> Some of us even remember where we were when ordering our Woo. I placed my order early Monday morning (before my first bowl of green tea) _12,373 posts ago_. I believe 'mikemalter' had the first post of the day.
> 
> ...


 

 Ya and you and mike are relatively new comers compared to some of us.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Looking forward to it, can never get enough WA22 rectifier comparisons!


 

 Thanks. It's really going to be a challenge though, especially when you consider that each rectifier matches better with different tube combinations and music genres. I was thinking of just using Tung Sol BGRP and GEC 6AS7 for the whole shootout. It would probably not be fair to some rectifiers, but if I try every single power/driver combo I have I would have to check in to an asylum at the end.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Thanks. It's really going to be a challenge though, especially when you consider that each rectifier matches better with different tube combinations and music genres. I was thinking of just using Tung Sol BGRP and GEC 6AS7 for the whole shootout. It would probably not be fair to some rectifiers, but if I try every single power/driver combo I have I would have to check in to an asylum at the end.


 

 I know the feeling, exactly. When I wrote mine I used the same Shuguang Treasure drivers and Sylvania 7236 power tubes for all the rectifiers to make it fair to both the rectifiers and my sanity.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Thanks. It's really going to be a challenge though, especially when you consider that each rectifier matches better with different tube combinations and music genres. I was thinking of just using Tung Sol BGRP and GEC 6AS7 for the whole shootout. It would probably not be fair to some rectifiers, but if I try every single power/driver combo I have I would have to check in to an asylum at the end.


 


  Try to look at the brighter side of darkness - this exercise could make you a better chess player, a better analyst and so on...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ya and you and mike are relatively new comers compared to some of us.


 
   
   
  Now, how would that be? (Speaking for myself here...) Woo ownership, perhaps. Been reading head-fi since '04 unregistered. Followed the 'Unite' thread since creation. And we certainly aren't a new comer to audio. But it could very well appear that way from getting to know some of you post registration.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Looking forward to it, can never get enough WA22 rectifier comparisons!


 


  +2
   
  Comparisons period...


----------



## Gwarmi

Slight tangent, apologies in advance for our hungry Aussie Woo Audio fans ~ the goodness is finally here locally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   http://www.head-fi.org/t/580219/woo-audio-comes-to-melbourne-for-all-australian-head-fiers#post_7890304
   
   Shipment is set to arrive on December 12th.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now, how would that be? (Speaking for myself here...) Woo ownership, perhaps. Been reading head-fi since '04 unregistered. Followed the 'Unite' thread since creation. And we certainly aren't a new comer to audio. But it could very well appear that way from getting to know some of you post registration.


 

  
  I am talking about being a Woo owner and when you started to post in any Woo threads. I think your first post was regarding muiscman59's WA5LE, we both got are "black beauty's" about the same time.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/4575#post_6842719
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty/30#post_6842606


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hi every1s!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  gotta listen quietly today, think i hurt my ears a little bit yesterday from listening really loudly on my grados and pro 900s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  grados = loud metal/alternative
   
  pro 900 = BASS!


----------



## Silent One

It would be great to receive entries from those of you who visit this thread... Woo owners especially, name your *Best Thread* here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/579514/name-your-best-audio-decisions-for-2011
   
   
  Kind regards,
   
  Silent One


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I am talking about being a Woo owner and when you started to post in any Woo threads. I think your first post was regarding muiscman59's WA5LE, we both got are "black beauty's" about the same time.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/4575#post_6842719
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty/30#post_6842606


 


  Yes, agreed. I state as much in the reply above. But you could not have known how long I followed, so I was just sharing in a conversational manner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm almost certain you stopped reading my reply to do research _before_ getting to the part where I write " Woo ownership, perhaps. Been reading head-fi since '04 unregistered."  
   
  So, your links aren't adding anything to our exchange that I hadn't already stated myself. Just trying to get on the same page as you with this exchange.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Slight tangent, apologies in advance for our hungry Aussie Woo Audio fans ~ the goodness is finally here locally
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Outstanding effort Gwarmi, congrats!!! What a way to head into the new year...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pro 900s and WA6SE is a pretty good combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  and i found a high quality version of Skrillex - Slats slats slats! (320kbps versus low quality versions online) 
   
  and itunes library (soon to be a jriver library), is now 14000+ songs!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> pro 900s and WA6SE is a pretty good combo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Your _"Soon to be a jriver library"_ talk is exciting, Dubstep Girl!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your _"Soon to be a jriver library"_ talk is exciting, Dubstep Girl!


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Outstanding effort Gwarmi, congrats!!! What a way to head into the new year...


 


  Thanks for that ~ 2012 is really shaping up to be an exciting year for Head-Fiers down under, the store now
  caters for everyone ~ from an iPod lover looking for a $200 closed can to someone who wants to put an
  SR-009 and Woo GES under the Christmas tree!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Ya and you and mike are relatively new comers compared to some of us.


 
   
  dannie01 started this thread on June 9, 2009 and still contributes to this thread. Trivia: Does anyone remember the title changes? I know it was renamed twice.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01 started this thread on June 9, 2009 and still contributes to this thread. Trivia: Does anyone remember the title changes? I know it was renamed twice.


 

 I think there were a few Woo threads back then.
   
 Stuck between WA6 and WA6 SE, was one thread that both dannie01 and I were posting on.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I think there were a few Woo threads back then.
> Stuck between WA6 and WA6 SE, was one thread that both dannie01 and I were posting on.


 

 Back then the WA4 was discontinued, WES introduced. And now we have the WEE and the WA234 MONO. I don't hear too much about the GES. That headphone amp is pretty hefty looking like the WA4. I also remember my first post on HF. It was when atbglenn and Seamaster were always posting. Now they've moved on--from amps to new homes, I gather. Ah, the good old days. For me, at least.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On the bright side, it's the weekend! I love taking deliveries just prior to the weekend. Nuthin' worse than getting some goodies on a Monday and you're too busy to pay it proper attention. Yet, you become distracted!


 


  Well, got in at 7am on the red-eye from LAX to find that my lovely wife went out of her way to stop by the house during the week and make sure packages were safe.  Along with the 6SE I also got a Bifrost/Asgard pair that came in at the same time   I spent most of the weekend clearing a spot on my desk, moving gear around, etc.  Managed to get the Schiit set up and running (very nice btw) and got the 6SE in place.  However, I was planning on installing the tubes and connecting it up today.  I woke up, checked my schedule and AAARRGGGHHH, I have to be in Pittsburgh tonight!  Guess the Woo will have to wait until wednesday to be awakened.  Two more sleepless nights...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> dannie01 started this thread on June 9, 2009 and still contributes to this thread. Trivia: Does anyone remember the title changes? I know it was renamed twice.


 


  Let's see, the previous names were, um...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I think there were a few Woo threads back then.
> 
> Stuck between WA6 and WA6 SE, was one thread that both dannie01 and I were posting on.


 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Back then the WA4 was discontinued, WES introduced. And now we have the WEE and the WA234 MONO. I don't hear too much about the GES. That headphone amp is pretty hefty looking like the WA4. I also remember my first post on HF. It was when atbglenn and Seamaster were always posting. Now they've moved on--from amps to new homes, I gather. Ah, the good old days. For me, at least.


 


  Great to wake up and see some rekindling for the Woo holidays! I remember a few years back, not even being in the hunt for an amp. Was constantly met with Single Power this and Single Power that all over head-fi it seems. All of the attention and focus failed to Woo me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But, I eventually tripped over an amp that did!
   
  I really enjoyed following Seamaster, he had some great exchanges. Would love to hang out with him cafeside... hope he is well!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Well, got in at 7am on the red-eye from LAX to find that my lovely wife went out of her way to stop by the house during the week and make sure packages were safe.  Along with the 6SE I also got a Bifrost/Asgard pair that came in at the same time   I spent most of the weekend clearing a spot on my desk, moving gear around, etc.  Managed to get the Schiit set up and running (very nice btw) and got the 6SE in place.  However, I was planning on installing the tubes and connecting it up today.  I woke up, checked my schedule and AAARRGGGHHH, I have to be in Pittsburgh tonight!  Guess the Woo will have to wait until wednesday to be awakened.  Two more sleepless nights...


 


_Say it ain't so! _Ok, the Road Warrior in you will return home (eventually) to find the appreciation factor off the charts!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hi every1s!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha put the two together and you'll have a real headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I really enjoyed following Seamaster, he had some great exchanges. Would love to hang out with him cafeside... hope he is well!


 

 I enjoyed Seamaster's posts back in the day as well, so I had to check: He checked in today for the first time in almost a year, and has no Woos in his signature, even as "sold"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Haha put the two together and you'll have a real headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That he "Checked-in" is promising though... will send him a PM. Any new tweaks to your rig? Went under the hood last night (music server) to renice the audio priority for Amarra. New settings did not return a better sound. Will do more Mac homework.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That he "Checked-in" is promising though... will send him a PM. Any new tweaks to your rig? Went under the hood last night (music server) to renice the audio priority for Amarra. New settings did not return a better sound. Will do more Mac homework.


 
   
  He does state that he is military, maybe he went on active-duty or something. It looks like he has downsized his rig substantially.
   
  No real tweaks with the Woo rig lately, I am as satisfied as ever with it.
   
  I have been continuing to roll rectifiers and my original notion has been proven, that the EMLs need to be matched with the headphones (274B with LCD-2, 5U4G with HD800), but the Sophia Princess works almost as well with both headphones and doesn't need swapping. That's what drew me to it (like a moth to a flame) in the first place.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> He does state that he is military, maybe he went on active-duty or something. It looks like he has downsized his rig substantially.
> 
> No real tweaks with the Woo rig lately, I am as satisfied as ever with it.
> 
> I have been continuing to roll rectifiers and my original notion has been proven, that the EMLs need to be matched with the headphones (274B with LCD-2, 5U4G with HD800), but the Sophia Princess works almost as well with both headphones and doesn't need swapping. That's what drew me to it (like a moth to a flame) in the first place.


 

 Great find, grokit. As much as I like my EML 5U4G, I need to focus this week on selling it to fund the 6F8G Tung-Sol's from Skylab. Should anyone reading have an interest in my 7 month old glass (great sound; gorgeous to see atop one's amp), let me know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be attractively priced to move!


----------



## grokit

Here's an interesting fact sheet on audio (power) tubes:
   
 About vacuum power tubes.     For instance I had no idea about the dangers of storing tubes for long periods of time without putting them into use.
   
  Also wondering if by "power tubes" the author means all audio tubes or not.
   
  Comments?


----------



## Clayton SF

I remember when Seamaster got Dan of Modwright to do a major modjob to his WA22--incredible photos--*BIG BLUE&WHITE CAPS!* So 2359Glenn; what do you think of those mods to Seamaster's WA22?


----------



## WindyCityCy

Guess what showed up today
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Of course I had to do some reconfiguring to get the 596 with Glenn's adapter into place ... needed another 1/2 inch which I was able to achieve without a drill thank goodness.  Ended up spending about 2 hours doing wire management in the process ... what a pain to work in such tight quarters.  I wouldn't want my mother to hear some of the phrases that were getting thrown around during the surprisingly painful wire work.  In between sessions of unbelievable body positioning I was able to test both of my new 596 beauties and both fired up fine.  I'm breaking in the 2nd as I type.  Hope nobody tries to call as there's no way I'm gonna hear the phone ringing.  The EML is taking a long needed vacation and enjoying the comfort and quite of the the well padded package it arrived in. 
   
  Here are a couple of snapshots of the finished product.  Wish I had a better camera.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Guess what showed up today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Looks like a ship passing underneath the Bay Bridge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Congrats on the _Mighty '596'_ and the fine custom work (complete with some of the more colorful expressions found in the English language).


----------



## Wapiti

Looks great!
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WindyCityCy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Wish I had a better camera.


 
   
  Don't go there.  Camera glass is a lot more expensive than tubes and just as addictive.


----------



## jc9394

WindyCityCy,
   
  Can you please try to stop the music and turn up the volume to see if you can heard any static noise with your NU?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Here's an interesting fact sheet on audio (power) tubes:
> 
> About vacuum power tubes.     For instance I had no idea about the dangers of storing tubes for long periods of time without putting them into use.
> 
> ...


 


  Timely! An afternoon read with my last bowl of tea for the day. Hmmm, Seamaster... military.... USN or USCG!


----------



## WindyCityCy

No I don't hear any status through the NUs.  However I can hear some kind of mechanical hum very very slightly when I turn the volume pot all the way up with no music.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  I have another set of tubes (not NUs) that occassionally transmit some audible state when pausing the music.  With those tubes the static seems to come and go ... maybe as they warm up??? 
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WindyCityCy,
> 
> Can you please try to stop the music and turn up the volume to see if you can heard any static noise with your NU?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I remember when Seamaster got Dan of Modwright to do a major modjob to his WA22--incredible photos--*BIG BLUE&WHITE CAPS!* So 2359Glenn; what do you think of those mods to Seamaster's WA22?


 


  I believe Dan has those caps custom made for Modwright, they are not a "brand" of cap you can buy through a parts store for example.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I remember when Seamaster got Dan of Modwright to do a major modjob to his WA22--incredible photos--*BIG BLUE&WHITE CAPS!* So 2359Glenn; what do you think of those mods to Seamaster's WA22?


 


  A confectionery delight!


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Here's an interesting fact sheet on audio (power) tubes:
> 
> About vacuum power tubes.     For instance I had no idea about the dangers of storing tubes for long periods of time without putting them into use.
> 
> ...


 


  Now I'm thinking I should buy a vacuum tube tester, I have a lot of 50 unused power tubes, that have only been out a few times for testing since they rolled out from the factory


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> No I don't hear any status through the NUs.  However I can hear some kind of mechanical hum very very slightly when I turn the volume pot all the way up with no music.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  I have another set of tubes (not NUs) that occassionally transmit some audible state when pausing the music.  With those tubes the static seems to come and go ... maybe as they warm up???


 

 nope warm up does not help me, it is low enough that on my normal listen level, 3-4 clicks, it is not noticeable with music playing or not.  it is just there that bugs me and only happens with 596.
   
  596 with nu - very low static
  596 with ts/sylvania/rca - dead quiet
  gz34/gz37/5u4g/274b with nu and the rest of the 6f8g - dead quiet
   
  maybe i just need to sell it to "SomeOne" and move on to get a BL63...


----------



## Silent One

A Woo Audio owner in search of a fine tube.... now, who could that be? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There's a strong indication, jc9394, that you'll have no trouble at all locating a buyer for the NU's inside this thread.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Damn I can't stop listening ...................


----------



## WindyCityCy

I have things to do but can't concentrate on anything but the sweet sound coming from the Woo.  I've been flipping between the HD800, D7000, and LCD2r1 for the past 2 hours.  Initial impressions with the 596, GECs, and NUs ...
   
  D7000 - tighter and more controlled especially in the low end than with the EML ... I'm wanting to spend some time with these again as I can feel the bass!
  LCD2 - similar to D7000 with better tightness and control ... At least initially I prefer the 596 to the EML with the LCD2 ... I have been listening to these almost exclusively on my Burson as it just seemed to mate ... might have to bring them back to the Woo for awhile based upon early testing!
  HD800 - great sound but for some reason I feel like the EML is a better match with my other tubes and the WA22 with these ... need to spend some more time here as the Senns are my go to phones usually.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Damn I can't stop listening ...................


 

_The '596' Express makes very few stops...... glad you're aboard!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I have things to do but can't concentrate on anything but the sweet sound coming from the Woo.  I've been flipping between the HD800, D7000, and LCD2r1 for the past 2 hours.  Initial impressions with the 596, GECs, and NUs ...
> 
> D7000 - tighter and more controlled especially in the low end than with the EML ... I'm wanting to spend some time with these again as I can feel the bass!
> LCD2 - similar to D7000 with better tightness and control ... At least initially I prefer the 596 to the EML with the LCD2 ... I have been listening to these almost exclusively on my Burson as it just seemed to mate ... might have to bring them back to the Woo for awhile based upon early testing!
> HD800 - great sound but for some reason I feel like the EML is a better match with my other tubes and the WA22 with these ... need to spend some more time here as the Senns are my go to phones usually.


 


  D7000 + 596 without a doubt!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  With the exception of 'shipsupt,' the '596' Ring around The Bay is nearly complete.


----------



## cifani090

Since we (even without my Woo
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) seem to have tube fetishes, i found this great Chinese restaurant that has tons of vintage tubes playing for customers as they eat!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Since we (even without my Woo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
   




    


  cifani, where are you located?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> cifani, where are you located?


 

 What's up with the picture? Im in the glove state...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Since we (even without my Woo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  cifani090, great find! Where is the restaurant located, do you know?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Back then the WA4 was discontinued, WES introduced. And now we have the WEE and the WA234 MONO. I don't hear too much about the GES. That headphone amp is pretty hefty looking like the WA4. I also remember my first post on HF. It was when atbglenn and Seamaster were always posting. Now they've moved on--from amps to new homes, I gather. Ah, the good old days. For me, at least.


 

 Yes I had a lot of fun then also.
   
  I forgot what happened to atbglenn "that good looking devil", but I think that Seamaster was a little disappointed with the mod's he had done on his WA22. Seamaster really tried hard and thought that by getting a respected guy like he had to do the mod's would help all WA22 owners that wanted something more from there WA22. And then there was the guy with avatar of a swami his screen name started with a C, he got a little to aggressive with tube rolling and screwed up his Woo, as I have read others doing as well.
   
  Oh well at least a few of us are still enjoying this hobby.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





sesam said:


> Now I'm thinking I should buy a vacuum tube tester, I have a lot of 50 unused power tubes, that have only been out a few times for testing since they rolled out from the factory


 

 Here's the problem with tube testers, they need to be calibrated very well, and over time re-calibrated. So unless you are a big time seller of higher end tubes you are better off buying from a very good and trusted seller that has a very good tube tester and that is well calibrated. Also when buying tubes make sure you get the full test results and when the tube tester was professionally  calibrated. .


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





silent one said:


> cifani090, great find! Where is the restaurant located, do you know?


 
   
  Japan as far as i know, here's his website.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Here's the problem with tube testers, they need to be calibrated very well, and over time re-calibrated. So unless you are a big time seller of higher end tubes you are better off buying from a very good and trusted seller that has a very good tube tester and that is well calibrated. Also when buying tubes make sure you get the full test results and when the tube tester was professionally  calibrated. .


 


  If a person is selling tubes, then yes the accuracy of the tester is very important.  I think, for personal hobby use, the ability to test for shorts/leaks/noise and be able to ascertain whether a tube is still strong or weak would suffice though.  Owning the tester would be more about protecting your amp from bad tubes than doing your own matching or what not.  I've been burned enough on power tubes recently that getting a tester to check for these things has become a high priority.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If a person is selling tubes, then yes the accuracy of the tester is very important.  I think, for personal hobby use, the ability to test for shorts/leaks/noise and be able to ascertain whether a tube is still strong or weak would suffice though.  Owning the tester would be more about protecting your amp from bad tubes than doing your own matching or what not.  I've been burned enough on power tubes recently that getting a tester to check for these things has become a high priority.


 

 Yes, I agree 100%.
  But a good tube tester that is professionally calibrated and is accurate, can be very costly. And yes if you buy and sell a lot of tubes, its necessary. So all I am saying is if you don't have access to this kind of tube tester then by from somebody that is trusted and has this kind of tube tester.
  My tubes I have bought are from some folks that follow these guide lines, and yes I paid more but I got what I paid for. When buying very strong matched NOS tubes as I do, its easy to get ripped off.


----------



## Silent One

Absolutely, sillysally. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Returning the focus to Sesam, however, he already has inventory of 50 long-term stored tubes (with more still to come) that he'd like to address for protection. A tube-tester will serve him well. I'd do well to get one eventually as well...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Japan as far as i know, here's his website.


 


  Thanks for sharing, cifani090. I really enjoyed visiting the site. 2 hour Train ride (S.E.) from Tokyo.


----------



## Rawrbington

hey so my woo 3's specs show headphone imdedance from 30 to 600 ohm.  but the denon d2000 is 25 ohm.  could i still use them with the amp or would it cause damage somehow? 
   
  sorry if thats a dumb question


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> hey so my woo 3's specs show headphone imdedance from 30 to 600 ohm.  but the denon d2000 is 25 ohm.  could i still use them with the amp or would it cause damage somehow?
> 
> sorry if thats a dumb question


 


  There are no dumb questions, some are just more entertaining than others. Plus, if someone doesn't know something, asking seems to be decent and efficient. I'd advise against it. Based on what lil' knowledge I have but internal destruction I have seen from mismatched components, not worth the risks.
   
  The WA3 may not have the ability to deliver current to the cans below 30 ohms. Someone feel free to back or correct me. But I wouldn't risk my Woo.


----------



## Rawrbington

thats good enough reason for me to avoid that.
  thanks for the advice


----------



## Xcalibur255

It isn't unsafe for the amp per se, the load it presents is just very non-ideal so the amp will deliver far less current.  The impedance mismatch may also result in a poor damping factor which will hurt sound quality.  If you try to push it too loud it will clip, which is unsafe for the *headphones* more than it is the amp, but the amp will shows signs of being under stress before any serious clipping occurs.  This would only take place at higher volume levels.  Basically if it sounds good to you and you aren't listening too loud it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Silent One

In my view...
   
  I would add that the amp would run much hotter in trying to deliver the current it'd fall short of. And heat is the destruction (the end?) of many things. At moderate volumes, it could be a walk in the park. But me personally, I see this as a walk in Central Park at night. And would simply make an alternative choice.
   
  Hopefully, we can hear from survivors? I hope it works out for him though. To be clear, I'm simply being cautious.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats good enough reason for me to avoid that.
> thanks for the advice


 


  You should send Jack (Woo Audio) a message with your inquiry. I certainly know why you're considering the D2000, it's a great can! The D5000's which I owned previously, share the same drivers.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Been looking at the woo offerings for a while now (on and off). And I've noticed that some listings on the site offer 'component upgrades' for an additional costs (not valves), while others (like the WA6SE or WA2) do not list anything. Yet, using a forum search turns up references to upgrades (ie. WA6SE maxxed)...however these postings can be very old.
   
  So what's the story on the matter? Do these items come 'as is' or is it a case of 'Ask and ye shall receive'? (I'd love a bit of info what may or may not be offered)


----------



## grokit

Some of the upgrade parts are no longer available, notably the Blackgate capacitors. It seems like they are just upgrading their top amps at this point, but if you have something specific in mind it sure wouldn't hurt to ask. My guess is that parts upgrades for the "lesser" Woo amps will come back around at some point.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> At moderate volumes, it could be a walk in the park. But me personally, I see this as a walk in Central Park at night. And would simply make an alternative choice.


 

  Many may not believe this but Central Park is now a place where many people do walk at night.  It's not like it was in the 80's where one would go into the park even during the day and risk not coming out again.  
   
  Even an unguarded pair of boots could make a nightly mysterious visit to a bench and remain safe...
   
  http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/nocturnalist-the-ghost-boots-of-central-park/


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> D7000 + 596 without a doubt!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
   
  Don't count me out... After a short hiatus I am back and checking the train schedule!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Don't count me out... After a short hiatus I am back and checking the train schedule!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Many may not believe this but Central Park is now a place where many people do walk at night.  It's not like it was in the 80's where one would go into the park even during the day and risk not coming out again.
> 
> Even an unguarded pair of boots could make a nightly mysterious visit to a bench and remain safe...
> 
> http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/nocturnalist-the-ghost-boots-of-central-park/


 

 From Forty-Duece to Central Park and light touches to Harlem, the clean-up (makeover, if you prefer) has been known as "The Disneyland Effect."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Walked a many a night in Central Park late night and though patrolled (and now safer) it's the sheer size that has me exercise caution as a practice, not that one shouldn't go ahead.
   
  So, in Rawrbington's case he could probably get away with it but suggesting he do so with caution but maybe look at his options as well. On the other hand, that D2000 is a great pick, so...


----------



## grokit

I was on a _Crazy Date Gone Bad_ and got stranded across Central Park one late evening/early morning in the late 90's, needed to go East > West at the 97th Street Traverse Road and then up to 108th and Central Park West. 
   
  Giuliani was in "full control" of the city at that time and it was only a few blocks but I had been drinking so I hailed a cab


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In my view...
> 
> I would add that the amp would run much hotter in trying to deliver the current it'd fall short of. And heat is the destruction (the end?) of many things. At moderate volumes, it could be a walk in the park. But me personally, I see this as a walk in Central Park at night. And would simply make an alternative choice.
> 
> Hopefully, we can hear from survivors? I hope it works out for him though. To be clear, I'm simply being cautious.


 

 Well, the amp can only deliver the power it is designed to be capable of delivering into any given load, regardless of what amount of power it is being *asked* to deliver.  If it runs short of what is demanded it will simply clip the signal.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, the amp can only deliver the power it is designed to be capable of delivering into any given load, regardless of what amount of power it is being *asked* to deliver.  If it runs short of what is demanded it will simply clip the signal.


 


  When bad things happen to good designs --
   
  Simply a clipped signal is likely, and gets no argument from me. But every now and again that's not the end of the story. (certainly an amp can die trying...) Even when amps are operated within designed parameters it can misbehave... and bad things happen. Not always instantly, but over time (asking for it?). There's a lot of things one could get away with when it comes to operating amps. Many a manufacturer will receive a return (amp) and know at first glance if something accelerated the demise of the amp (installation/operation) or likely a failure from general use even if prematurely. 
   
  At one time, it was my gig to take in such carnage for a mfg. Honestly, I'm not trying to stir fear with the poster's potential pairing. However, in my opinion I think the poster should exercise caution. _Caution isn't really a dirty word, is it?_ It all might be just fine. It was good for him to ask in advance of purchase. Wonder if Jack seen any returns on the bench in this regard.





   
  I will add that I learned from the poster that the WA3 runs cool, so this would help in this case actually. A WA6/SE in stock clothing on the other hand... perhaps, I can conclude by simply stating.... _"Not with my amp."  _




   
   
   
  EDIT:  My fears were unfounded. No problem with pairing...


----------



## jc9394

Battle of 22... I guess I love "22" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  WA22 all decked out with the best tubes I have and beta22.
   
  Initial impression with HD800, the WA22 win by milli seconds.  When someone said HD800 loves tubes, s/he is not kidding at all.  I will go into more details later when I can take the headphone down.
   
  LCD-2 r2, the beta22 win hands down, the details, bigger soundstage (more 3D), and a very well controlled bass.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Battle of 22... I guess I love "22"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Where can one get a reputable B22 and which version is best.  It's very confusing...


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah.  the beta 22 seems like an amazing amp.  i just need someone to order the parts for me.  and then hold my buddy at gun point until he finishes assembling it


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Where can one get a reputable B22 and which version is best.  It's very confusing...


 

 I got the 4 boards (balanced version) one and Corey of SWA build it for me.  PM me for his info.
   


  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> yeah.  the beta 22 seems like an amazing amp.  i just need someone to order the parts for me.  and then hold my buddy at gun point until he finishes assembling it


 


   
  not sure but check out the Ti Kan's website.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Battle of 22... I guess I love "22"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting that the amp would make a difference in how well HP's exhibit soundstage. I would have thought regardless of amp, the HD800 would outperform the LCD-2's in this regard. Good to know.


----------



## jc9394

^^^ you miss read, the hd800 still much better soundstage than LCD-2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> ^^^ you miss read, the hd800 still much better soundstage than LCD-2


 


  Your avatar makes me wanna buy another Woo!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your avatar makes me wanna buy another Woo!


 
   
  You expect us to talk you out of it?
   
  I, for one, am happy to serve as enabler.


----------



## grokit

Nice to know that the WA22 can hold its own against the B22, thanks JC


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> You expect us to talk you out of it?
> 
> I, for one, am happy to serve as enabler.


 


  I hope someone does, I'm "Yobless." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  jc9394's night time shot is mesmerizing...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> ^^^ you miss read, the hd800 still much better soundstage than LCD-2


 

 OK, thanks for clarifying.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your avatar makes me wanna buy another Woo!


 


  you know why I put that there.  you will not get the full potential of NU with WA6SE...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice to know that the WA22 can hold its own against the B22, thanks JC


 


  yes it does but not without empty out your wallet first, there is no chances with the stock tubes.  I have it dressed to first date with beta22.


----------



## jc9394

Woo and her new friend...


----------



## Wapiti

Very nice.
   
  (Your avatar pic is indeed gorgeous.)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woo and her new friend...


 

 She's beautiful. Corey told me that I couldn't stack my SWA β22/σ22. It was a heat issue. The heat from the power supply will rise into the top unit. Just want to make sure you're not overheating Woo's new _girlfriend_.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> She's beautiful. Corey told me that I couldn't stack my SWA β22/σ22. It was a heat issue. The heat from the power supply will rise into the top unit. Just want to make sure you're not overheating Woo's new _girlfriend_.


 


  I'm aware of that too but my listening session is usually 2-3 hours and it should be fine.  I told Corey that until I find a place for it, plus it is over 13 feet for open space above it.


----------



## Rawrbington

about the very low impedance denons on the WA3, Jack said there is no harm factor, just that the 3 is not well suited for cans of that impedance at all


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> about the very low impedance denons on the WA3, Jack said there is no harm factor, just that the 3 is not well suited for cans of that impedance at all


 


  This is great to hear, Rawrbington!
   
   
  @ Xcalibur255 >


----------



## Silent One

Meant to edit not reply...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> you know why I put that there.  you will not get the full potential of NU with WA6SE...


 


  I woke up early this morning thinking I had to sign for the NU's at the door with USPS. Dream?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woo and her new friend...


 

 That lighted volume pot is sharp looking.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That lighted volume pot is sharp looking.


 

 x2. And I really like how you had the SWA logo engraved on the faceplate. Very impressive.


----------



## Eee Pee

On the Woo amp is that a white funnel where you pour all your money in?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> On the Woo amp is that a white funnel where you pour all your money in?


 


  Not exactly. That was set up for me to deposit my funds for the National Union's when I have the money.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That lighted volume pot is sharp looking.


 


  It does! I'm guessing he'll return with a night shot when time permits....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2. And I really like how you had the SWA logo engraved on the faceplate. Very impressive.


 


  Yup, I'm glad I talked Corey into doing this.  It also give him some branding too.


  Quote: 





eee pee said:


> On the Woo amp is that a white funnel where you pour all your money in?


 

  
  Yes, the Woo thread is so friendly that every things wallet dieting is allowed.  I have been eating ramen for a long while and will need to continue to do so.


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> It does! I'm guessing he'll return with a night shot when time permits....


 


  Yes but just not tonight.  More time doing comparison again.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, the Woo thread is so friendly that every things wallet dieting is allowed.  I have been eating ramen for a long while and will need to continue to do so.


 

 You're just on diet but wallet dieting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes but just not tonight. More time doing comparison again.


 

  
  The new friend of Woo is really look nice, especially the casing work, just marvelous.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> On the Woo amp is that a white funnel where you pour all your money in?


 

 I think that funnel is put to use when guests arrive at his place to listen to his amps. They all stand in line and take turns pitching silver dollars from across the room. Whoever lands the first silver dollar in the cup gets first dibs on the amp and headphones of their choice.
   
_*(All proceeds from the coin-toss go towards investments in future headphone ventures and to pay for sessions with a sonic therapist.*_)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woo and her new friend...


 

 That's the best looking B22 I've seen. Really nice.  guess you won't be needing that clunky old dust collecting WA22 any more....


----------



## jc9394

^^^ I still prefer HD800 with WA22, plus I need an excuse to visit this thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> ^^^ I still prefer HD800 with WA22, plus I need an excuse to visit this thread.


 
  The Woo state of mind: Once a Woo owner--always a Woo owner. You belong here whether you currently are in possession of one, thinking of acquiring one, or simply lusting after one.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The Woo state of mind: Once a Woo owner--always a Woo owner. You belong here whether you currently are in possession of one, thinking of acquiring one, or simply lusting after one.


 


  or a second one  and all of the above


----------



## jc9394

Plus, what am I going to do with the tubes I acquired if I don't have my WA22?  Plus, what is better than some good old tubes glowing on a snowy night?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The Woo state of mind: Once a Woo owner--always a Woo owner. You belong here whether you currently are in possession of one, thinking of acquiring one, or simply lusting after one.


 


  I'm just someone with the lust always on the edge of getting one, but I think jc9394's B22 has me back on the SS side of the fence.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm just someone with the lust always on the edge of getting one, but I think jc9394's B22 has me back on the SS side of the fence.


 


  It is quite an amp for LCD-2 but as I stated that I much prefer on WA22 (tubes) with HD800.  The wait for Corey to build you a beta22 will be extremely long.  8+ weeks to complete and won't accept any beta22 order until next spring/summer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Plus, what am I going to do with the tubes I acquired if I don't have my WA22?  Plus, what is better than some good old tubes glowing on a snowy night?


 


  Snowy nights are overrated. I'd love the glow on any L.A. or Bay Area Autumn night...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> or a second one  and all of the above


 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The Woo state of mind: Once a Woo owner--always a Woo owner. You belong here whether you currently are in possession of one, thinking of acquiring one, or simply lusting after one.


 


  D:  All of the above


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is quite an amp for LCD-2 but as I stated that I much prefer on WA22 (tubes) with HD800.  The wait for Corey to build you a beta22 will be extremely long.  8+ weeks to complete and won't accept any beta22 order until next spring/summer.


 

 By then I'l have the money!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> By then I'l have the money!


 


  If you can wait, I'm telling you it is worth it.  The whole process from contacting Corey to delivery of beta22, it is like 6 months.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Snowy nights are overrated. I'd love the glow on any L.A. or Bay Area Autumn night...


 


  Plus it gives off heat to heat up my bedroom...


----------



## Silent One

*Let's Get Ready To Rumble...*
   
_"The Challenger... fighting out of the Red corner... wearing Silver trunks... sporting a DNA Helix 6 Conductor design and weighing 85 grams... The WireWorld Silver Starlight USB Reference cable!"  _Ok., so we're a bit excited (understatement). But my new cable just dropped from Aphrodite Cu29 (Thanks, Robert). _It is sooooo v-e-r-y  s-e-x-y !-!-! _ I just ripped the entire day's itinerary to pieces! In its wake, fewer entries with longer segments:
   
  13:00 - 17:00 Work
  17:00 - 19:00 Dinner
  19:00 - 21:00 Administrative
  21:00 - 05:00 In-session (Woo Audio)
   
  I formerly bought this cable back in the month of May. But some weeks later, exchanged it for the Silver Starlight Coax cable because I couldn't afford both. However, the entry level USB cable was holding me back once I upgraded my rectifier and music player (USAF-596; Amarra). Looking forward to some audio goodness tonight/overnight - my weekend starts this evening!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Should be excellent.  The WireWorld Starlight USB improved my DAC-2.  Upper regions seem to relax and straighten out.  Didn't think a USB cable would have made a difference but I was wrong. Had I known I would have gone right for the  Silver Starlight.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Should be excellent.  The WireWorld Starlight USB improved my DAC-2.  Upper regions seem to relax and straighten out.  Didn't think a USB cable would have made a difference but I was wrong. Had I known I would have gone right for the  Silver Starlight.


 


  I started out last year with the WW Ultraviolet - it sounds decent. But I bought it before the Woo for another system (solid state). Had I known Woo Audio was in my future, I would have gone Starlight or higher from the "get!"


----------



## Silent One

Furutech... outstanding! Thanks Icenine2. I have to skip the deal but I'm in the market and likely will get a Furutech duplex this winter anyway. What's in the listening room now is in decline.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Furutech's GTX-D R Duplex Pure Copper Receptacle w/Rhodium Plating-  These are on double secret sale price at Cable Company.    Normally $232 and on sale for $162.  You have to call it in.  1.800.FATWYRE (328.9973)  http://www.thecableco.com/Product/GTX-D-R-Duplex-Pure-Copper-Receptacle-w-Rhodium-Plating
> 
> Please no dialog on the merits of outlets!!!  I had read all about this and some pretty cool reviews but thought to pass in lieu of a lesser Furutech but this was too good a deal and in the scheme of my system a pretty inexpensive tweak.


 
  Hmm The owner of TheCableCompany is an old friend of mine.  should I hit him up?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hmm The owner of TheCableCompany is an old friend of mine.  should I hit him up?


----------



## Icenine2




----------



## WarriorAnt

I should but I never have.  I never mix friendship with money.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I should but I never have.  I never mix friendship with money.


 


  I can appreciate your stance. Whether I put in a $23 duplex or a $232 duplex, my Woo is likely to benefit from the original being replaced. I'm looking forward to this improvement in my system.


----------



## WarriorAnt

It appears Icenine2 has been banned.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope it wasn't permanent I'm gonna miss that dude and his contributions.  Second buddy to get banned this week.


----------



## jc9394

Because of posting the Furutech deal???


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Because of posting the Furutech deal???


 


  I first noticed the deal posted at Computer Audiophile this morning in full (Cut & Paste). Perhaps, it needed modifying with relation to posting an ad for sale (solicitation)? 





 (Silent One in solidarity - he's my audio & cycling buddy)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It appears Icenine2 has been banned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Wouldn't it be helpful if next to the ban, head-fi posted a 'level?' Like level 1, 2 or 3 next to the ban, so we'd all know "How long?" Say, minor infraction 48 hours, 7 days or 30??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Or worst.... _Down-the-street! _


----------



## Wapiti

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Because of posting the Furutech deal???


 


 Perhaps.  He posted the identical language in numerous threads.  It may have been considered spamming.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Because of posting the Furutech deal???


 
   
  edit: what Wapiti ^ said.


----------



## Clayton SF

So no warning. Just flat out banned? Is that true?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


>


 


  Very sorry to see this happen to you. I have never found your post's or PM's out of line, but always helpful.
   
  Yes I also like doing business with that company.
   
  Hope to see you back soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Perhaps.  He posted the identical language in numerous threads.  It may have been considered spamming.


 


  Yup, that would be Spam. I saw it splashed over the Net.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Very sorry to see this happen to you. I have never found your post's or PM's out of line, but always helpful.
> 
> Yes I also like doing business with that company.
> 
> Hope to see you back soon.


 


  x2.
   
  Everyone deserves a second chance. I hope to see him back in time for our December ride.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Rumor has it he was out walking and a black van drove up next to him, three men in black suites and shades jumped out threw him into the van and drove off...


----------



## xinque

So I've either not been paying too much attention to my music lately, or this is the first time I'm hearing something with cymbals since I got my WA5.  Popped in Nirvana and was just slapped around by some of the detail.  Does anyone else find cymbals the easiest instrument out there to differentiate between amps, or tubes while we're at it?


----------



## Wapiti

Cymbals are one good test.  Reproduced poorly they sound like bacon frying.


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> Cymbals are one good test.  Reproduced poorly they sound like bacon frying.





 Mmmmmm....bacon......


----------



## WarriorAnt

Some Woo love...
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/true-beauty-wooaudio-wa5-headphone-amplifier/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+headfonia+%28Headfonia%29


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Some Woo love...
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/true-beauty-wooaudio-wa5-headphone-amplifier/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+headfonia+%28Headfonia%29


 

 Those are great shots, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Silent One

Stunning in black... _absolutely stunning!_


----------



## grokit

A maxxed WA5 is very high on my want list but for that price both a DarkStar and a Liquid Fire could be had


----------



## Draygonn

Has anyone painted their tube bases? TS5998s have a black base which is out of place on my silver WA2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Has anyone painted their tube bases? TS5998s have a black base which is out of place on my silver WA2.


 


  Would you kindly post a pix?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Has anyone painted their tube bases? TS5998s have a black base which is out of place on my silver WA2.


 


   
  If you think it is out of place, send it my way, my silver WA22 more than happy to adopt them.


----------



## Silent One

As a life-long RAIDER fan (Oakland-Los Angeles-Oakland), I never found the contrast between "Silver & Black" to be at odds... or out of place.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As a life-long RAIDER fan (Oakland-Los Angeles-Oakland), I never found the contrast between "Silver & Black" to be at odds... or out of place.


 
  This is indeed a silly notion. And X2 on and being a lifelong Raidahs fan
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Right now my silver WA22 has: two tubes with white bases (Treasure), two tubes with chrome bases (7236), and a tube with a black base (Brimar) and it looks _divine_.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> This is indeed a silly notion. And X2 on and being a lifelong Raidahs fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You know, it could be the shade, quality of paint applied to the base that takes the whole thing down. A pix from the poster could shed light on the matter...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Has anyone painted their tube bases? TS5998s have a black base which is out of place on my silver WA2.


 


  Hmmm, there's an interesting idea.  If you try it you might want to use something like nail color, otherwise the heat buildup in the base could cause your paintjob to crack or peel over time I'm thinking.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Some Woo love...
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/true-beauty-wooaudio-wa5-headphone-amplifier/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+headfonia+%28Headfonia%29


 


  He's using EML 274B in his WA5.  With all the concern over the EML 5U4G being an issue one would think the 274B would be even more at risk considering it calls for a 4uF first capacitor.  I've been wondering if I should hold onto my EML or let it go when my WA6 goes up for sale, and this only makes me wonder even more.  I think I'll defer to Jack for final call on it.


----------



## Draygonn

I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers, but after I replace an LED my Crack will be complete and I'm looking for stuff to mod. The bottom pic has the stock power tubes with a silver base. The black bases of the 5998s stand out. It's a rough life...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers, but after I replace an LED my Crack will be complete and I'm looking for stuff to mod. The bottom pic has the stock power tubes with a silver base. The black bases of the 5998s stand out. It's a rough life...


 


  I could be the lone dissenter... or two, 'cause grokit got my back... but the contrast looks fine from my listening room. Stand proud WA2, stand proud!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i start working monday, so next month i'll have a WA2 of my own + T1 and maybe LCD-2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i start working monday, so next month i'll have a WA2 of my own + T1 and maybe LCD-2


 

 Very exciting to hear! Currently, in for the night... and in-session. My new cable needs company in order to bring out the best in my Woo. So, here I sit - started off the night with a beautiful sounding CD "Beyond The Horizon" followed by a handful of Chopin tracks. Next up? Some Big Joe Turner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, really... Big Joe Turner is his name. Want some great listening? He's your Cat!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Very exciting to hear! Currently, in for the night... and in-session. My new cable needs company in order to bring out the best in my Woo. So, here I sit - started off the night with a beautiful sounding CD "Beyond The Horizon" followed by a handful of Chopin tracks. Next up? Some Big Joe Turner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  enjoy your session!
  i sure am enjoying mine, but gotta finish trying to add songs ( i won't finish. i got over 150gb of lossless just waiting to be added to my library)
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  listening to Florence + the machine right now


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> enjoy your session!
> i sure am enjoying mine, but gotta finish trying to add songs ( i won't finish. i got over 150gb of lossless just waiting to be added to my library)
> 
> 
> ...


 


  150GB??? Can't wait to see what you'll be feeding the 6 SE this winter! The forthcoming PDF deserves a carefully prepared bowl of green tea and no background distractions.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 150GB???


 
   
  That's a lot of P2P downloads.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Correction: 196 GB (downloaded left to convert + add) + main library of 296GB
   
   
  those 183gb are pure lossless files
   
  and my main library only has 36gb of mp3 left (5400 songs roughly) with the remaining  9000 something being lossless.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Correction: 196 GB (downloaded left to convert + add) + main library of 296GB
   
   
  those 183gb are pure lossless files
   
  and my main library only has 36gb of mp3 left (5400 songs roughly) with the remaining  9000 something being lossless.
   
   
  that 150gb number was just a rough estimate


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 150GB??? Can't wait to see what you'll be feeding the 6 SE this winter! The forthcoming PDF deserves a carefully prepared bowl of green tea and no background distractions.


 

 Way over 1TB here.  But I tend to keep everything AIFF.  Only recently and reluctantly have I begun to convert to ALAC.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Way over 1TB here.  But I tend to keep everything AIFF.  Only recently and reluctantly have I begun to convert to ALAC.


 


  That's a good size library. But, to put the 150GB in perspective, I was struck by the speed in which she left our conversation, found and queued what she was looking for, only to return to our chat in a matter of minutes (or so it seemed). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  _Dubstep Girl is fast! _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That's a good size library. But, to put the 150GB in perspective, I was struck by the speed in which she left our conversation, found and queued what she was looking for, only to return to our chat in a matter of minutes (or so it seemed).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## xinque

So how many days of music is 1TB lossless?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





xinque said:


> So how many days of music is 1TB lossless?


 


  Around 120 days but the majority of it is AIFF.


----------



## grokit

iTunes music library reporting in: 10615 items, 32.1 days, 274.14 GB, over 99% ALAC


----------



## Silent One

The vast music libraries many of you have just gave me some thought to my layout inside the listening room (thanks for the inspiration). Over the holiday weekend I'm going to reconfigure my layout. My black-high back-soft leather chair is way too comfortable in long sessions. Would like to stand more but still control some of the gadgets on the desk.




   
  Once I start properly washing/cleaning vinyl, I'm going to add many more tracks at 24/96 kHz.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xinque said:


> So how many days of music is 1TB lossless?


 
  About 142 days of music stored as FLAC, or 70+ days as WAV files.
   
  In terms of numbers, in native format (wave) a 72 minute CD is roughly 700MB. FLAC compression realizes approximately 2:1 compression.  Thus, a full-length CD stored as FLAC is about 350MB. As most CDs are not the full 72 minutes, especially pop/rock/etc., a terabyte will typically hold 3,000+ CDs.


----------



## Silent One

FLAC now has a new uncompressed format to rival WAV... carries tags+artwork.


----------



## PanamaRed

silent one said:


> 150GB??? Can't wait to see what you'll be feeding the 6 SE this winter! The forthcoming PDF deserves a carefully prepared bowl of green tea and no background distractions.




I hope "tea" is being used as 1930s vernacular


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> FLAC now has a new uncompressed format to rival WAV... carries tags+artwork.


 

 ?
   
  FLAC has supported tags, album art and cue sheets for roughly 10 years.  It has always been lossless. 
   
  An uncompressed version would have no advantage to wave other than the ability to carry tags.  The files would be as large as wave and still need to be decoded.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> About 142 days of music stored as FLAC


 


  good lord.  how big is that?  ive got about 60 days in mp3s and flacs mixed and its 150 gigs


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> good lord.  how big is that?  ive got about 60 days in mp3s and flacs mixed and its 150 gigs


 
   
  1TB will hold this much music stored as FLAC, compression level 5 (default).
   
  Storage is now so cheap there is no reason to rip to anything other than lossless.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> 1TB will hold this much music stored as FLAC, compression level 5 (default).
> 
> Storage is now so cheap there is no reason to rip to anything other than lossless.


 

 agree
   
  and makes since, a little over 3 times the space for the time  since i have 300gb at 43 days (some is mp3 though, just a small portion)
   
  ugh so tired gonna go to bed. long day tomorrow!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I hope "tea" is being used as 1930s vernacular


 


  During this time, on what side of the Pacific (East/West) are you referring?
   
  Edit: Ohhhhhhh PanamaRed! I had to looked that one up - it escaped me. Um, no no no!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh and hi silentone!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> ?
> 
> FLAC has supported tags, album art and cue sheets for roughly 10 years.  It has always been lossless.
> 
> An uncompressed version would have no advantage to wave other than the ability to carry tags.  The files would be as large as wave and still need to be decoded.


 


  ?? Explained.
   
_"Lossless" _wasn't the point I made nor tags and album art. Rather, as you correctly mention in your second sentence, it is uncompressed and will still carry info like compressed version. So, now you ask _"What's the significance?" _ Some (with resolving systems) do not wish to use compressed lossless do to packing/unpacking schemes yet, WAV presents inconvenience with tags/art. 
   
  Now, those who skipped FLAC for WAV can choose to have their cake and ....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh and hi silentone!!!!


 

 (The one with the great hand/eye coordination...) _There she is!  _I know you've a busy Sunday. Will you get to 'neak some time with the _WA 6 Special Edition_ tonight?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> 1TB will hold this much music stored as FLAC, compression level 5 (default).
> 
> Storage is now so cheap there is no reason to rip to anything other than lossless.


 


  Cheap storage is a season many of us looked forward to with great anticipation over the years! Remember fretting over what tracks would or would not make the cut? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Although editing can bring order and discipline to one's library, there was also a great deal of agony far too often!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"Lossless" _wasn't the point I made nor tags and album art. Rather, as you correctly mention in your second sentence, it is uncompressed and will still carry info like compressed version. So, now you ask _"What's the significance?" _ Some (with resolving systems) do not wish to use compressed lossless do to packing/unpacking schemes yet, WAV presents inconvenience with tags/art.
> 
> Now, those who skipped FLAC for WAV can choose to have their cake and ....


 
   
  Interesting, thanks.  I did a little digging but have not been able to locate anything indicating uncompressed FLAC.  Do you have a link?
   
  Given that FLAC takes so little to decode (the work is done on the front end) I've never worried about the decoding overhead, but I don't listen all that much to ripped files.  I'm not patient enough to rip 1,000s of CDs and LPs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Interesting, thanks.  I did a little digging but have not been able to locate anything indicating uncompressed FLAC.  Do you have a link?
> 
> Given that FLAC takes so little to decode (the work is done on the front end) I've never worried about the decoding overhead, but I don't listen all that much to ripped files.  I'm not patient enough to rip 1,000s of CDs and LPs.


 

 dBpoweramp Music Converter -Version changes for Release 14.1
   
*FLAC encoder wording changed, also includes a FLAC Uncompressed encoding option (which stores audio uncompressed, for those who want WAVE PCM but with better ID Tagging).*
   
http://www.dbpoweramp.com/Version-Changes-DMC.htm
   
   
  Post Script.:
   
  Also, I find what you're doing (actually recording!) far more interesting than making copies.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> dBpoweramp Music Converter -Version changes for Release 14.1
> 
> *FLAC encoder wording changed, also includes a FLAC Uncompressed encoding option (which stores audio uncompressed, for those who want WAVE PCM but with better ID Tagging).*
> 
> ...


 

 I thought you were using a Mac.... dbpoweramp is for Windows.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I thought you were using a Mac.... dbpoweramp is for Windows.


 







  Good observation. I have 2 PC's & a Mac - use dBpoweramp with Mr Softie (MSFT) and XLD with Mac. Also, the Mac performs as music server (primary); PC (secondary system).


----------



## Silent One

Holiday Wishes ~
   
  What I would like to receive from Woo Audio at year-end holiday... besides an amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.... is a  5 minute Time-Lapse Video of their amp production from start to finish; with staff digitally removed and the piece set to music.
   
  It's great that you occasionally read the thread to catch up on your base, Jack. And who better to send the frames to than us, your ardent supporters here under the "Woo Audio Owner Unite" thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks for listening, Jack. And "Happy Thanksgiving" to all of you at Woo Audio and your respective families.
   
  Kind Regards,
   
  Silent One


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> dBpoweramp Music Converter -Version changes for Release 14.1
> 
> *FLAC encoder wording changed, also includes a FLAC Uncompressed encoding option (which stores audio uncompressed, for those who want WAVE PCM but with better ID Tagging).*


 
   
  Cool.  Excellent find!
   
  I was looking on the FLAC website - thus, I missed this.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Cool.  Excellent find!
> 
> I was looking on the FLAC website - thus, I missed this.


 
   
   
  I'll likely stick with AIFF most of the time then WAV with a sprinkle of FLAC. No real change for me. I do like options, however, and will rip a few tracks in FLAC uncompressed to see what I think.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Interesting, thanks.  I did a little digging but have not been able to locate anything indicating uncompressed FLAC.  Do you have a link?
> 
> Given that FLAC takes so little to decode (the work is done on the front end) I've never worried about the decoding overhead, but I don't listen all that much to ripped files.  I'm not patient enough to rip 1,000s of CDs and LPs.


 

 Many folks prefer not to have the compressed files decode while listening which is why Amarra has a function that will load your files into a special list which will uncompress them completely before they get played.   As for losseless files being the same as a file that has never been compressed there is always a chance of error in this process and some of that error can be permanent.   I remember when CD's first came out in 1982 all we kept hearing was "Perfect Sound Forever" from every engineer on earth and his mother.  No need for different players, music would be perfectly reproduced from that point onward. Hallelujah!    29 years later we are still trying to decode that original format and each higher rez to come with a myriad of DAC devices.   Losseless = no loss?  CD's = Prefect sound forever?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Many folks prefer not to have the compressed files decode while listening which is why Amarra has a function that will load your files into a special list which will uncompress them completely before they get played.


 

 Pretty clever.  Neat idea.
   
  Decoding FLAC is simple and undemanding for a computer, it's just easy integer math.  In real time it is just a percent or two of CPU capacity.  If a computer is making errors performing this function it has huge problems.
   
  I don't know the demands of other compression.  I suspect some are fairly CPU intensive.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Pretty clever.  Neat idea.
> 
> Decoding FLAC is simple and undemanding for a computer, it's just easy integer math.  In real time it is just a percent or two of CPU capacity.  If a computer is making errors performing this function it has huge problems.
> 
> I don't know the demands of other compression.  I suspect some are fairly CPU intensive.


 

 Perhaps but the chances of error are always there, easy math or not.   How hard can it be to read 1's & 0's off a CD and then process that info correctly?  Apparently not that easy, other wise we wouldn't be still trying to do it better after 29 years.  After all it's just 1's and 0's right.


----------



## dminches

I am working with an audio engineer on my music room and I did some sound recordings in the room.  He wanted me to send him the wavs and not the flacs in case there was discrepancy in the codec for encoding/decoding.  I have not worried about this in the past.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I suspect some are fairly CPU intensive.


 
   
  The ones that facilitate DRM codecs (even if they aren't being employed) like AAC and ALAC require the most processing.


----------



## Silent One

Overlooked --
   
  CPU intensive tasks often make for an easy target where background processes are concerned. And sometimes unfairly blamed, because some intensive CPU tasks can run and have no apparent effect on audio quality - yes, some do. What I feel gets overlooked are the simple tasks and processes in the audio stream inside a computer environment. 
   
  The long-term view I've held is some processes in and of themselves may prove harmless with audio. But one or more processes may have a binding, synergistic effect. Looking at the way FLAC compresses, packs, unpacks and made whole again returns a file (allegedly) with no errors. And hopefully bit-perfect. _Voila!_
   
_Not so fast! _There's the actual pipes the file traverses - it is here where the packing/unpacking can have its sound impaired. Not guaranteed to pick up noise or have its sound altered - it seems that it will depend on the environment it's operating in (computer environment).
   
  If you think audio designers have it tough, they've got nothing on Submarine designers! Suppose the latter is tasked with making the Sub as quiet if not a bit quieter, while improving the efficiency of the Sub's Air Filtration system. Let' assume they achieve the goal of making the filtration system more efficient. Testing shows the new system is equally quiet. Then the Sub as a whole is tested for noise detection underwater. And it is revealed that the Sub itself is now just a bit noisier. How can that be?!
   
  Possibly the way the new Air Filtration system processes, it now becomes synergistic, picking up noise with other processes on board the Sub during actual operation, not just when the system itself is analyzed. This example is just my attempt to explain my view and in no way suggests I'm passing for an expert in Audio, Acoustics, Sonar or Submarine technology. But, if you get the basic idea I'm presenting, then great!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Perhaps but the chances of error are always there, easy math or not.   How hard can it be to read 1's & 0's off a CD and then process that info correctly?  Apparently not that easy, other wise we wouldn't be still trying to do it better after 29 years.  After all it's just 1's and 0's right.


 

 CDs are not just ones and zeros.  This is a misnomer.  They are very much an analog medium.  For example, the pits are many different lengths (9 lengths IIRC), etc.  A CD stamped as first is also quite different from that pressed as number 20,000.  The edges of the pits soften and are less certain. There are all sorts of ways CDs are subject to analog errors.  Ironic, yes?
   
  Music stored as binary information on a hard drive is very different.  Not only is it literally ones and zeros, on/off, there is extensive error correction.  Computers are really good at handling data.  Consider if computers were commonly making random errors this board could not exist, our cars wouldn't run, a DVR would not exist. 
   
  Keep in mind that if there are data recovery and processing issues, they all exist with a wave file as much as with FLAC or any other format.  A computer doesn't sit back and declare "It's a wave file!  Be careful everyone!"
   
  Specifically with respect to FLAC, many have tested the before and after data.  The files are bit-identical.  Of course, this is true of many other formats.  Even sucky sounding MP3s are the same every time they are retrieved off of a drive.  They suck they same each time. 
   
  Of course, how the resulting bit-stream is treated by the computer is an entirely different matter.  iTunes and Kmixer are still more than capable of screwing up the sound.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The long-term view I've held is some processes in and of themselves may prove harmless with audio. But one or more processes may have a binding, synergistic effect. Looking at the way FLAC compresses, packs, unpacks and made whole again returns a file (allegedly) with no errors. And hopefully bit-perfect. _Voila!_
> 
> _Not so fast! _There's the actual pipes the file traverses - it is here where the packing/unpacking can have its sound impaired. Not guaranteed to pick up noise or have its sound altered - it seems that it will depend on the environment it's operating in (computer environment).


 

 Absolutely.  Most insidious is that this risk exists regardless of the file format.  A computer is a harsh environment.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Absolutely.  Most insidious is that this risk exists regardless of the file format.  A computer is a harsh environment.


 


  I agree with this view (yours). So, I really don't think FLAC is being picked on per se but some realizing they'd rather have zero processing or the least amount of processing they could get away with. For me, I simply want to feed my Woo the best diet I can!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I am working with an audio engineer on my music room and I did some sound recordings in the room.  He wanted me to send him the wavs and not the flacs in case there was discrepancy in the codec for encoding/decoding.  I have not worried about this in the past.


 


  Nice luxury, dminches!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I agree with this view (yours). So, I really don't think FLAC is being picked on per se but some realizing they'd rather have zero processing or the least amount of processing they could get away with. For me, I simply want to feed my Woo the best diet I can!


 

 An excellent, laudable, flawless goal.
   
  Not being a Mac user, I found it interesting to learn of and to read about Amarra.  Its interesting to me that both Windows and Macs have been mucking with how they send out digital audio.


----------



## Rawrbington

so is my fubar 2 dac gonna be a big glaring weak link in my system when i get my wa6se (or wa2)?
  should i look to upgrade the dac first you think?  or just wait and see how the new bigger woo sounds with it first?
  also, scored some fischer fa 011's to complement my 990s with my WA3 in the mean time


----------



## Wapiti

I haven't heard the Fubar, but I suspect that it has its limitations given it is an inexpensive USB DAC.  USB is just very hard to do well.
   
  I personally would get away from USB as a data transfer format.  You already have a nice amp.


----------



## Rawrbington

should i go optical or something else?  i've never understood exactly how optical works.  what the cable looks like and what it plugs into.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> should i go optical or something else?  i've never understood exactly how optical works.  what the cable looks like and what it plugs into.


 


  Optical is also known as "Toslink" due to its creation by Toshiba, Japan.
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK
   
   
  I currently have/use three methods of transmitting data from my music server (Mac) to the DAC - Coax, Optical & USB. Well, I started out last year with those three in rotation. Now I have a USB/SPDIF converter (Bridge) and use USB out from the Mac, then either Coax or Optical from the bridge into the DAC (or both).
   
  Does your computer have Optical Out or USB only? The Fubar II could prove serviceable until you have a better idea of what you want (system). But it will also hold you back if you're wanting more. The little one is limited to a resolution of 16/44.1 or 48 kHz. What's more, Toslink (Optical) will limit you to 96 kHz. Technically (and this is cable dependent) optical can go as high as 170 kHz. But the problem there is most interfaces are designed to go from 96 - 176.2 kHz with no other stop in between, so 96 kHz is your limit.
   
  I'll likely recommend something later rather than sooner when I learn more from you.
   
  Post Script:  However, I do recommend that you study your music library and think about what you've got and what you're likely to get genre and quality wise. Perhaps, you're interested in the excellent Reference Recordings downloads at 176 kHz or even 88.2 kHz. Linn Recordings and others at 192 kHz.
   
  But 192 kHz playback is very hard for many vendors to get right, though they make it available.


----------



## grokit

The Schiit Bifrost would make a good upgrade, and you could add the USB functionality later if you want 192 kHz. Technically the spdif inputs are 192 kHz as well.


----------



## Rawrbington

i looked at my library.  my files are either FLAC or MP3 V0 or 320.  all of them show up in winamp as 44khz.  not sure what that means for future DACs.  i was under the impression that 44k was the standard for CD's.  i don't have a record player at the moment. 
   
  about the spdif out or whatever, im not sure i have one.  the MAudio sound card doesn't seem to have one but the mobo might.
   
   
  and about USB.  i don't see myself moving away from 44khz anytime soon.  so what does that mean for spdif or usb?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i looked at my library.  my files are either FLAC or MP3 V0 or 320.  all of them show up in winamp as 44khz.  not sure what that means for future DACs.  i was under the impression that 44k was the standard for CD's.  i don't have a record player at the moment.
> 
> about the spdif out or whatever, im not sure i have one.  the MAudio sound card doesn't seem to have one but the mobo might.
> 
> ...


 


  A tidbit from the World's Most Famous Cooking School (Le Cordon Bleu - Paris) courtesy of graduate Kathleen Flinn. The instructor always reminded Meeze Fleen to _"Taste, taste, taste as you go along..." _You've certainly got options (and money!), Rawrbington. But with DAC offerings running rampant ( a dime a dozen?) why not get the amp and see what you got? How do you know what seasoning your system will need and how much if you don't take the time to _taste, taste, taste_ as you go along?
   
  You'll always be able to get a DAC - which I recommend you buy pre-owned or B-stock. This way, you could get more DAC for dollar. And have a better idea on what/where for the system. It seems from your comments that higher rez files won't keep you from either your sleep or musical enjoyment. I'd go with a quality amp for now and evaluate for future building.


----------



## Rawrbington

sounds good.  ive always had an interest in the dac magic and lately the bifrost.  maybe because of the name brands or whatever, idk.  but yeah, i think the amp will come first.  ive still been going back and forth between the 6SE and the 2.  i think honestly i'll end up with the 6SE because of its versatility and im sure they both sound great.  just hoping the 6se still has some warmth left in the midranges kinda like the 2 and 3 do. i know it wont be quite to that extent but hopefully not far off.   but i gotta sell my WA3 first before i do anything or wait till xmas.  hopefully while im waiting someone might throw one up in the classifieds.  god knows i check it multiple times a day hoping for one or the other lol.


----------



## Silent One

Holiday Week FYI --
   
  A few days back, me and fellow Woo Audio owners were discussing File Formats: Compressed versus Uncompressed Lossless. Tonight, I'd like to follow up with a writer who just posted today on the heels of that discussion. Admittedly, it is but one point of view. But the writer's ears must have been burning.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  See today's write up on FLAC. Thanks for your illumination, WarriorAnt! 
   
http://www.audiostream.com/content/cut-flac


----------



## spagetka

Nice, thank you for the link.


----------



## keph

hi guys im planning to buy the wooaudio product and i dont know which one to choose since im in china so i have to order online..my choice would be the WA2 or the WA6SE these amps will drive my Hifiman HE-500, HE-6 (soon) or LCD2 (soon) and my other high-impedance headphones like the HD650, Beyer DT990..but mainly i use my HE-500 with my La Figaro 339 for now since im still waiting to decide either LCD2 or the HE-6 to buy..
   
  so pls guys help me choose between this 2 amps and i prefer a much tubey, warm sound..
   
  THX


----------



## Clayton SF

Having wondered what ever happened to Seamaster, atbglenn, and Icenine2, last night I conducted a private séance (while wearing my DT990 600 ohm headphones) and I was able to channel Icenine2 (2 channels--stereo, you know) and he spoke (through me, of course), _"Say hello to everyone from me in exiled banishment!"_
   
  I hope there is no jitter where ever he is.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe if we all join hands, figuratively, and concentrate really hard, he will be thrusted back into this world.
   
  I was listening to the WA4 last night and that amp has chutzpah!


----------



## jc9394

Shameless plug, I have some tubes for sale to fund my DAC upgrade.
   
  GE Redbase 5692, GEC 6080, TS 5998, Mullard GZ37...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug, I have some tubes for sale to fund my DAC upgrade.
> 
> GE Redbase 5692, GEC 6080, TS 5998, Mullard GZ37...


 

 ...to fund your DAC upgrade which will feed your SWA β22/σ22? Hehehe...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ...to fund your DAC upgrade which will feed your SWA β22/σ22? Hehehe...


 


  both beta22 and WA22.  The PWD have a new MKII upgrade that have digital lens build in.
   
  I'm keeping the tubes that I use most and selling all backup pair except the GEC 6AS7G...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and will get BL63.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





keph said:


> hi guys im planning to buy the wooaudio product and i dont know which one to choose since im in china so i have to order online..my choice would be the WA2 or the WA6SE these amps will drive my Hifiman HE-500, HE-6 (soon) or LCD2 (soon) and my other high-impedance headphones like the HD650, Beyer DT990..but mainly i use my HE-500 with my La Figaro 339 for now since im still waiting to decide either LCD2 or the HE-6 to buy..
> 
> so pls guys help me choose between this 2 amps and i prefer a much tubey, warm sound..
> 
> THX


 

 ive been trying to figure this out myself.  Jack Woo told me that the 6SE is better suited for low impedance cans like the HE500 and LCD2.  he did not say that the 2 wouldn't drive them, just taht the 6se is more ideal for those orthos and low imp cans.  sadly the 6se isn't as tubey sounding as the 2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ive been trying to figure this out myself.  Jack Woo told me that the 6SE is better suited for low impedance cans like the HE500 and LCD2.  he did not say that the 2 wouldn't drive them, just taht the 6se is more ideal for those orthos and low imp cans.  *sadly the 6se isn't as tubey sounding as the 2.*


 


  Depends on what tube you are using.  using eml 274b mesh and brimar cv1988 is very tubey


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug, I have some tubes for sale to fund my DAC upgrade.
> 
> GE Redbase 5692, GEC 6080, TS 5998, Mullard GZ37...


 

 I'm of the opinion that as long as pricing remains on the other side (private messaging), _we need to know these things... we're Front Runners! _




   
  Now that I just tripped over a 6F8G>6DE7 hurdle, that Redbase looks enticing! PM sent...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> both beta22 and WA22.  The PWD have a new MKII upgrade that have digital lens build in.
> 
> I'm keeping the tubes that I use most and selling all backup pair except the GEC 6AS7G...
> 
> ...


 


  You're very fortunate - PS Audio has handled the MKII upgrade for loyal customers with class. Other vendors/manufacturers will only take note when high-end audio/consumer electronics market contracts. Relationships like these are worth keeping.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Having wondered what ever happened to Seamaster, atbglenn, and Icenine2, last night I conducted a private séance (while wearing my DT990 600 ohm headphones) and I was able to channel Icenine2 (2 channels--stereo, you know) and he spoke (through me, of course), _"Say hello to everyone from me in exiled banishment!"_
> 
> I hope there is no jitter where ever he is.
> 
> ...


 

  
  You do realize the WA*4* was so designated because it is 'Formidable.' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  Icenine2 is still with us, as I've seen him about a time or two lately. He's just unable to comment. Holiday cheers to you and the family, Icenine2!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You do realize the WA*4* was so designated because it is 'Formidable.'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You can see him when others can't? Where did you get your crystal ball?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You can see him when others can't? Where did you get your crystal ball?


 

  
  When meditating, silence allows for the hearing of movement around those that are still. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
   
  Self-edit:  After reviewing _Head-Fi Rules and Terms of Use_, I decided to edit my post regarding the party with whom I stand with in solidarity.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Icenine2 is still with us, as I've seen him about a time or two lately. He's just unable to comment. Holiday cheers to you and the family, Icenine2!


 

  
  I think we should all send a civilized request to Jude to reinstate Icenine2.  I know I will be doing so.  Seems like he got banned for something very inadvertent on his part and a ban seems very extreme.  He was only trying to be helpful to other Head-Fiers by posting a very good bargain in a few places.  Who even knew you could be banned for that?   If anything a warning would have been more appropriate explaining the R&R's of Head-Fi.   Icenine2 was a valuable contributor to many threads.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I think we should all send a civilized request to Jude to reinstate Icenine2.  I know I will be doing so.  Seems like he got banned for something very inadvertent on his part and a ban seems very extreme.  He was only trying to be helpful to other Head-Fiers by posting a very good bargain in a few places.  Who even knew you could be banned for that?   If anything a warning would have been more appropriate explaining the R&R's of Head-Fi.   Icenine2 was a valuable contributor to many threads.


 


  I was just fixin' to creatively post in a manner that would have been construed as posting on behalf of a banned member... and rightly so. The voice inside my head asked that I pull up the *Terms of Use* to check. Re-check. And to then check again just to make sure I was in fact, checking. But it only took one check (the first one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) to see I was about to enter the wrong door - closed, it looked harmless.
   
*"Do not post on Head-Fi's forums on behalf of individuals who are banned from Head-Fi."*
   
   
So, now I'll step back, sit back and continue to shop for Linux distros...


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're very fortunate - PS Audio has handled the MKII upgrade for loyal customers with class.


 


  Yes, PS Audio has great customer support.  Wonderful bunch.
   
  I have the MKII upgrade on pre-order.  The expense of curiosity.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ive been trying to figure this out myself.  Jack Woo told me that the 6SE is better suited for low impedance cans like the HE500 and LCD2.  he did not say that the 2 wouldn't drive them, just taht the 6se is more ideal for those orthos and low imp cans.  sadly the 6se isn't as tubey sounding as the 2.


 

  
  Sorry to interject here. I'm not running Orthos, but I did recently to a pair Alessandro / Grado labs MS-pro for main listening which are low impedance at 32 ohm. This is within spec for the WA2 (20-600ohm). Thread search gives the impression it is more about synergy (possibly mismatches) rather than some kind of technical struggle between the WA2 and low impedance loads. Just how bad can it be?
   
  I get the feeling I SHOULD get a WA6SE...but since I want to jump in to tubey sound, It should sound tubey (preferably with beginner friendly stock tubes)
  It feels like I should go down a path I don't want to even though I find the WA6SE hideous to behold (don't hurt me!). I don't want that *thing* on my desk. I feel strongly drawn to the visual symmetry and 'even numbers' of the WA2 while the WA6SE is a visual turn off.
   
  (As far as I know. I'm not OCD on odd numbers and multiple casing.)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Sorry to interject here. I'm not running Orthos, but I did recently to a pair Alessandro / Grado labs MS-pro for main listening which are low impedance at 32 ohm. This is within spec for the WA2 (20-600ohm). Thread search gives the impression it is more about synergy (possibly mismatches) rather than some kind of technical struggle between the WA2 and low impedance loads. Just how bad can it be?
> 
> I get the feeling I SHOULD get a WA6SE...but since I want to jump in to tubey sound, It should sound tubey (preferably with beginner friendly stock tubes)
> It feels like I should go down a path I don't want to even though I find the WA6SE hideous to behold (don't hurt me!). I don't want that *thing* on my desk. I feel strongly drawn to the visual symmetry and 'even numbers' of the WA2 while the WA6SE is a visual turn off.
> ...


 

  
  Interesting. As I find the twin chassis design, a twin delight... _especially in black! _


----------



## Wapiti

Zereul, I understand your feelings.  This hobby is about aesthetic enjoyment.  For many, this includes how equipment looks and feels to use.  Consider how many pictures of tubes and amps are in this thread alone.  I wouldn't shy away from your preferences.  An amp that looks and feels beautiful to you adds to the pleasure of using it. 
   
  Additionally, I find the distinctions between amplifier topologies alone to be over emphasized.  Both amps are well-engineered and beautifully built.  Both sound wonderful.  But for the Woo amplifier comparison chart and the oft-repeated theological beliefs of Head-Fiers, I doubt most enthusiasts would declare the listening experiences to be night and day different.  Differences exist, but we are not comparing a race car with a cushy luxury car.
   
  For me, the differences are akin to viewing a beautiful natural scene one hour after sunrise v. 2:00 pm.  In each case you can discern all the details and revel in every color, but the experiences remain different - both delicious.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A few days back, me and fellow Woo Audio owners were discussing File Formats: Compressed versus Uncompressed Lossless. Tonight, I'd like to follow up with a writer who just posted today on the heels of that discussion. Admittedly, it is but one point of view. But the writer's ears must have been burning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am impressed that he listened to one track uncompressed v. FLAC "completely and intently most of the day and into the night" to determine if he could discern a difference.  This is dedication.
   
  I also appreciate the starting point of the discussion.  He acknowledges "Let's be clear—no one is talking about whether or not FLAC compression messes with the bits. The question is does playing back a FLAC file negatively affect the sound quality."  Thus, there is no specious argument FLAC somehow damages the file or that the computer makes random mistakes.
   
  As the compared WAV and FLAC datastreams are bit-identical, the only possible variance is the difference in jitter.  In fact, he describes sound differences typically resulting from jitter.  This begs the question of distribution format (AES/EBU, S/PDIF, Toslink, USB) and the DAC used.  A modern DAC has no problem rejecting jitter, especially non-USB.


----------



## Icenine2

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## xinque

+1
  
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


 

 THANK GOODNESS. We thought we had lost you. We sent out a search party, a party party, a search and recovery plane, and a posse of wayward cowboys from the Big W Ranch. But somehow you managed to return unscathed.
   
  Welcome back! And yes--Happy Thanksgiving to you too!


----------



## thrak

i finally got around to posting this.  i was hoping to get a day with better light but it's been dark and rainy here all week long.  in any case, here she is, in black, fired up in all her glory and sporting the sofia 274b rectifier and 6DN7 power tubes.


----------



## Icenine2

[size=large] I passed through the seven layers of the candy cane forest, through the sea of twirly, swirly gumdrops, and then I walked through the Lincoln Tunnel[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> THANK GOODNESS. We thought we had lost you. We sent out a search party, a party party, a search and recovery plane, and a posse of wayward cowboys from the Big W Ranch. But somehow you managed to return unscathed.
> 
> Welcome back! And yes--Happy Thanksgiving to you too!


 


  x2!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> [size=large] I passed through the seven layers of the candy cane forest, through the sea of twirly, swirly gumdrops, and then I walked through the Lincoln Tunnel[/size]


 


  Just woke up (crashed @ 0930 hrs this morning). Dreamt you propped your Carbon frame Campy equipped ride along the fence and began trekking through a forest illuminated by holiday decorations. Emerging from the end of the tunnel "Un-banned." Then I logged on.... "You Got mail! ... From: Icenine2," the automated voice said on my computer.


----------



## Silent One

"Happy Thanksgiving" to The Wu Family, as well as the Woo family around the globe!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i finally got around to posting this.  i was hoping to get a day with better light but it's been dark and rainy here all week long.  in any case, here she is, in black, fired up in all her glory and sporting the sofia 274b rectifier and 6DN7 power tubes.


 


  She looks fantastique! Congrats, thrak!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> She looks fantastique! Congrats, thrak!!!


 

 ...and she looks absolutely smashing in stripes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I am impressed that he listened to one track uncompressed v. FLAC "completely and intently most of the day and into the night" to determine if he could discern a difference.  This is dedication.
> 
> I also appreciate the starting point of the discussion.  He acknowledges "Let's be clear—no one is talking about whether or not FLAC compression messes with the bits. The question is does playing back a FLAC file negatively affect the sound quality."  Thus, there is no specious argument FLAC somehow damages the file or that the computer makes random mistakes.
> 
> As the compared WAV and FLAC datastreams are bit-identical, the only possible variance is the difference in jitter.  In fact, he describes sound differences typically resulting from jitter.  This begs the question of distribution format (AES/EBU, S/PDIF, Toslink, USB) and the DAC used.  A modern DAC has no problem rejecting jitter, especially non-USB.


 


  As they're so fond of saying over at Computer Audiophile, _"Everything Matters..." _In my view, the Brain never gets the proper attention it deserves. Music and emotions remind of me of food and drug interaction - the body is processing in real-time and has to cope with what has already come before it. This could be an event/experience moments before, a few hours-days-weeks-months-years prior. What you eat & drink, how you sleep, are you tired or rested and other lifestyle matters. Colors, symbols and shapes? Anxiety and depression?
   
  I think the examination of humans as instruments is fascinating. Also, the Brain often compensates without our knowledge or permission - based on one's prior experiences, will fill in blanks or deduce (jump the gun?) and other tricks to do its job. We see with more than eyes and hear with more than our ears..._ it's all in the mind_. This falls under processing, the computer environment is not unique in this regard. So, processes in the mind can and do affect what we hear as well.  
   
  But now, I think I smell Sweet Potato Pie emanating from deep in the kitchen..... I did! I did!!!


----------



## flaming_june

Happy thanksgiving everyone.  Hope y'all enjoying your time with your families.
   
  That wa 6se looks fantastic in black and blue led.


----------



## Silent One

Hollywood ~
   
  I'm waiting for a Product Placement by Woo Audio in either a film or TV series...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> I find the WA6SE hideous to behold (don't hurt me!). I don't want that *thing* on my desk.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


>


 


  Great reaction! In fact, I'm looking for a second unit to put on my desk!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


>


 

  
  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> [T]he WA6SE hideous to behold (don't hurt me!). I don't want that *thing* on my desk. I feel strongly drawn to the visual symmetry and 'even numbers' of the WA2 while the WA6SE is a visual turn off.


 
  Seriously--we're here to help, not hurt. If that *thing* gets in the way of your music enjoyment, may I suggest you close your eyes and enjoy the ride. Getting there is half the fun even if you don't like the look of your vehicle.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


>


 

 I don't understand the negative reaction either, but I can't argue with another's aesthetic judgment.


----------



## Icenine2

Nice looking!  I love the Metropolis style rings.  BTW is Thrak a reference to King Crimson?  Love those guys!
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> i finally got around to posting this.  i was hoping to get a day with better light but it's been dark and rainy here all week long.  in any case, here she is, in black, fired up in all her glory and sporting the sofia 274b rectifier and 6DN7 power tubes.


----------



## grokit

Welcome back Icenine2, I had a feeling your exile was temporary


----------



## Silent One

I respect everyone's tastes, mine included. Though, I do call my own into question from time to time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But anyway, based on the OP's wording, it seems he strove for a bit of levity, as did WarriroAnt and eventually Silent One. I (I'm just one person) didn't see the response as negative. Hopefully, the OP will see the lightness in our responses.... a good ribbing, if you would.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i finally got around to posting this.  i was hoping to get a day with better light but it's been dark and rainy here all week long.  in any case, here she is, in black, fired up in all her glory and sporting the sofia 274b rectifier and 6DN7 power tubes.


 

 Nice picture there.  How are the 6DN7 tubes working for you?  We've never really gotten any impressions on the new tube options Jack put out there for these amps.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Zereul, I understand your feelings.  This hobby is about aesthetic enjoyment.  For many, this includes how equipment looks and feels to use.  Consider how many pictures of tubes and amps are in this thread alone.  I wouldn't shy away from your preferences.  An amp that looks and feels beautiful to you adds to the pleasure of using it.
> 
> Additionally, I find the distinctions between amplifier topologies alone to be over emphasized.  Both amps are well-engineered and beautifully built.  Both sound wonderful.  But for the Woo amplifier comparison chart and the oft-repeated theological beliefs of Head-Fiers, I doubt most enthusiasts would declare the listening experiences to be night and day different.  Differences exist, but we are not comparing a race car with a cushy luxury car.
> 
> For me, the differences are akin to viewing a beautiful natural scene one hour after sunrise v. 2:00 pm.  In each case you can discern all the details and revel in every color, but the experiences remain different - both delicious.


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Seriously--we're here to help, not hurt. If that *thing* gets in the way of your music enjoyment, may I suggest you close your eyes and enjoy the ride. Getting there is half the fun even if you don't like the look of your vehicle.


 
   

 Thanks for the response, Sounds like someone can't really go wrong with Woos (a good, since you're essentially buying unheard).
   
  I didn't mean to stir things up the wrong way, Perhaps my choice of bolded wording was too strong. What I truly meant is that the WA6SE doesn't have the aesthetics and sexiness of some of the other amps imo. Each half the WA6SE is symmetrical and looks great, but when both halves are sitting next to each other...it isn't the same. It seems almost unbalanced, 2 valves one side, 1 on the other. If that makes any sense at all. I think I just find symmetry to be that much sexier. Valves are sexy, Symmetrical valves, sexier still.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Thanks for the response, Sounds like someone can't really go wrong with Woos (a good, since you're essentially buying unheard).
> 
> I didn't mean to stir things up the wrong way, Perhaps my choice of bolded wording was too strong. What I truly meant is that the WA6SE doesn't have the aesthetics and sexiness of some of the other amps imo. Each half the WA6SE is symmetrical and looks great, but when both halves are sitting next to each other...it isn't the same. It seems almost unbalanced, 2 valves one side, 1 on the other. If that makes any sense at all. I think I just find symmetry to be that much sexier. Valves are sexy, Symmetrical valves, sexier still.


 

 Not a problem at all.  I think I unintentionally stirred up more controversy than you did.   
   
  Power supplies don't need the symmetry that two channels of amplification do.  Some amps have only one tube for amplification however, using one triode with two identical halves.
   
  I hope my description of sound differences helped.


----------



## Pudu

Fake forum comments are 'eroding' trust in the web.


Alright, fess up. Which of you are woobots? 



On a more pertinent subject, I must confess that when it comes to visual aesthetics I favour the symmetrical single units over the separate power supply models myself.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Nice looking!  I love the Metropolis style rings.  BTW is Thrak a reference to King Crimson?  Love those guys!


 

 thanks!  i probably didn't _need_ the rings but they look so cool i couldn't pass them up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  and, yes, it is a reference to king crimson.  I'm a big fan but i am really more of a deadhead.  dead-related names are much harder to come by so i dug into the more obscure part of my collection to come up with it.
   

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Nice picture there.  How are the 6DN7 tubes working for you?  We've never really gotten any impressions on the new tube options Jack put out there for these amps.


 

 they are great.  much smoother and lush than the default tubes.  bigger, warmer sound.  this description is probably vague but i don't quite have the knack of describing sound accurately (yet) plus i really only listened to the defaults long enough to burn them in.  i couldn't wait to hear the 6DN7s but once i switched they've stayed on.  all in all a worthwhile upgrade.  so far, no itch to upgrade them but I'm sure that will come


----------



## Silent One

_In Grand Style..._
   
  Often times when I look at my Woo upon entering the listening room, I am reminded of Paris... 1920's... and Art Deco. The twin chassis design looks like a pair of buildings designed from this period.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> thanks!  i probably didn't _need_ the rings but they look so cool i couldn't pass them up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  On returning with 'thrak' from a creative path:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On choosing the 6DN7 tubes: Had it been an option when I bought my Woo, I would have selected them to try as well. A number of us make blind purchases - I like it when I hear they work out for others.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _In Grand Style..._
> 
> Often times when I look at my Woo upon entering the listening room, I am reminded of Paris... 1920's... and Art Deco. The twin chassis design looks like a pair of buildings designed from this period.


 

 I agree!
  Art Deco! But mine is the single-chassis version.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I agree!
> Art Deco! But mine is the single-chassis version.


 


  The Silver cladding makes a convincing glance by day. The black cladding makes for a building's silhouette at night... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Tastefully executed, Clayton!


----------



## Silent One

*Lost in Space (Cyberspace)!*
   
  It's Black Friday... shopping online like madman... found and bought everything I was looking for... _or did I?! _I want to buy a pair of 6F8G's from Skylab or jc9394. But I'm unable to secure adapters (though Glenn is working on a solution). So, what to do?
   
  If I knew I couldn't get adapters, I'd jump on one of a few other goodies in the next moment. But I don't. If I knew I could obtain adapters, I'd earmark the funds and move on. Sometimes in this hobby, _Paralysis_ can be abbreviated by using the letters _Audio._


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Lost in Space (Cyberspace)!*
> 
> It's Black Friday... But I'm unable to secure adapters (though Glenn is working on a solution). So, what to do?


 

 Has Glenn sold all of his 6F8G adapter inventory?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Has Glenn sold all of his 6F8G adapter inventory?


 

 He does routinely, though in my case it's a matter of him finding _the right 9pin base to make 6DE7 adapters._ Great to know our man has standards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sometimes, our pursuits in this hobby remind me of the 1982 film *"Soup For One." *The title soundtrack is killer, by the way (got the 12")!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Fake forum comments are 'eroding' trust in the web.
> Alright, fess up. Which of you are woobots?


 





   
  I bet they are friendly.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Lost in Space (Cyberspace)!*
> 
> It's Black Friday... shopping online like madman... found and bought everything I was looking for... _or did I?! _I want to buy a pair of 6F8G's from Skylab or jc9394. But I'm unable to secure adapters (though Glenn is working on a solution). So, what to do?
> 
> If I knew I couldn't get adapters, I'd jump on one of a few other goodies in the next moment. But I don't. If I knew I could obtain adapters, I'd earmark the funds and move on. Sometimes in this hobby, _Paralysis_ can be abbreviated by using the letters _Audio._


 

 Why you don't try Jack? I got my 6SN7 to 6F8G adapters from him. They work great and look beautiful.


----------



## Rawrbington

welp.  i bought a WA2.
  im very excite


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite


 


  You'll love your new WA2. I'm listening to mine right now on Zu Audio Omen Standard Speakers. It is also great as a preamp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite


 

 I'm even more excited (how's this possible?) because you really were leaning that way all along... but sought approval. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Why you don't try Jack? I got my 6SN7 to 6F8G adapters from him. They work great and look beautiful.


 


  Thanks for looking out - price, not craftsmanship, would be my only concern there (saving for another couple of months). But at least you reminded me I've not run out of options. Credit USAF-596, the outgoing EML Glass makes this forthcoming transaction possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yup, the '596' _is that good!_


----------



## Rawrbington

haha SilentOne
  thanks!
  can't wait.  i still really love the sound of my little 3 out of my 990s.  but this should open them up a little more and make room for some T1's some day.  and as a consolation i'll finally be able to answer the question about the lower impedance cans on the wa2 for myself. 
  i was able to pull the money together and grab it.  its coming with 2 5998 tung sols  and a variety of other tubes.  now i just gotta sell the WA3 and pay my savings account back lol.  not gonna forget to do that like i did last time i told myself that.
   
  so when you see me raving about how much i like it someone quote this post.  gonna have to rearange my desk to fit it cause i think its about twice the size of my wa3.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite


 

 Excellent! 
   
  I am certain you made the best choice.
   
  We expect reaction reports.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite


 


  Congrats. I wish my wallet had the balls to step up to that.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite


 


  Congrats! Fabulous amp...it should do wonders with your DT990/600s!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite


 


  grats! i'll be buying one next month as well


----------



## Dubstep Girl

finally back on head-fi tonight. ive been super busy with work at Clinton nuclear plant. outage starts tuesday and i'll be working 72 hour weeks on night shift.
   
   
  i finally got a chance to try out the jriver media center and i can say i'm definitely dropping itunes (i have an iphone + ipod but i dont sync songs to iphone, ill just use itunes for apps and backup unless jriver can do that).
   
  jriver doesn't seem to have as good of tagging as itunes, but i guess i can get used to it. still trying to figure out how it organizes songs, but bitperfect definitely made an enourmous difference in sound quality.
   
  unfortunately, everything got a tad brighter (another reason for me to get a WA2). but i can finally hear my WA6SE's amazing dynamics as well as the imaging of the headphones. its like the last veil was removed, and suddenly my music had soundstage and imagine as well as crystal clear detail i hadn't hear before. i can'tbelieve i was missing out on so much just by not having bitperfect music. 
   
   
  now all i have to do is learn how to use jriver media center and get used to the awkward tagging + lackluster album art display, still a small price to pay for the bitperfect playback + other cool options it has 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  now just gotta see if i have enough money for a WA2 (and the warmest smoothest sounding tubes possible) as well as a T1 and maybe an LCD-2. or i might just skip both and get lcd-3


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> finally back on head-fi tonight. ive been super busy with work at Clinton nuclear plant. outage starts tuesday and i'll be working 72 hour weeks on night shift.
> 
> 
> i finally got a chance to try out the jriver media center and i can say i'm definitely dropping itunes (i have an iphone + ipod but i dont sync songs to iphone, ill just use itunes for apps and backup unless jriver can do that).
> ...


 
   
  On SQ: Somebody had to tell Dubstep Girl about JRiver.... _and I'm on a Mac!_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On SQ: Somebody had to tell Dubstep Girl about JRiver.... _and I'm on a Mac!_


 


   





 mhm...


----------



## Rawrbington

tell me more about  this jriver media player.  and this talk of SQ out of the player.  does the decoder or whatever players use make a difference?  am i missing out by using my BELOVED winamp?  she's served me well when others have mocked me and treated me poorly... for almost 15 years!  so careful with your words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  and tell me about power cords.  do they make a difference in sound like other cables can?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite






  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> grats! i'll be buying one next month as well






   
  WA2 Woo hoo!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> tell me more about  this jriver media player.  and this talk of SQ out of the player.  does the decoder or whatever players use make a difference?  am i missing out by using my BELOVED winamp?  she's served me well when others have mocked me and treated me poorly... for almost 15 years!  so careful with your words
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  its nothing to do with decoder or anything else the player has. it just sounds better because in the past i used to use itunes which does NOT have bitperfect playback (windows mixer thing will resample/dither the track and thus process it resulting in a loss of quality).
   
  jriver has ASIO or WASAPI exclusive options which permit bitperfect playback (the file isn't altered/processed/or resampled in any way, so its clean and only converted by your DAC).  this lets you get better quality. so as long as your winamp is setup for kernel streaming/asio/or wasapi exclusive, you should be able to have bitperfect playback.
   
   
  and i don't think power cables make a difference in sound quality, haven't paid much attention to it or compared them to regular cables. but they will reduce interference and lower the noise floor which results in cleaner sounding music


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> WA2 Woo hoo!


 
  WA2 club ftw?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA2 club ftw?


 

 Oh yeah... I have a WA22 but I feel the kinship with the WA2, the force is strong in that one!
   
   Clinton nuclear plant-- you have a Homer Simpson type of job?


----------



## Silent One

Currently in-session: Stevie Wonder - Natural Wonder (Live in Japan with The Tokyo Philharmonic)
   
  And contemplating the Power Cord question... and realize, like running water it varies. And invites yet more questions. Location (source or amp); Design (conductors/dieletric); Connectors? Burn-in; Play-in; Degradation? Oxidation (loss of electrons); Reduction (gaining of electrons)? Chemistry anyone???




   
  Two additional thoughts: I'm happy for both those who are indifferent and feel cables matter (Swiss?). Also, I wonder if a Service man or woman ever had a WA3/WA6 aboard an Aircraft Carrier with a portable CD Player and headphones inside their quarters - would they find clean AC? Shielded from or bombarded with EMI/RFI? Ambient noise level? Just curious...


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> tell me more about  this jriver media player.  and this talk of SQ out of the player.  does the decoder or whatever players use make a difference?  am i missing out by using my BELOVED winamp?  she's served me well when others have mocked me and treated me poorly... for almost 15 years!  so careful with your words


 
   
  Most Windows players resample the files on playback (iTunes does the same on the Mac).  In Windows XP, Kmixer (a Windows component in XP and earlier) resamples everything to 16bit/44.1k.  This is generally irrelevant for MP3s as they sound dreadful at best.  However, if you are listening to 44/16 files or better, Kmixer downgrades the sound quality a lot.  It is a poor sample rate converter and it resamples _everything_. 
   
  XP: Ideally you want to bypass Kmixer in XP and send the data stream directly out of your soundcard or interface directly to your DAC.  ASIO is a plug-in which performs this.  Winamp may have a ASIO plug-in.  Often the best and easiest is to use ASIO4ALL_, _a universal ASIO driver. 
   
  Vista: Windows Vista and Windows 7 incorporate WASAPI, a component which allows delivering an unmodified bitstream to a sound card or external DAC.  You need a player that knows how to use it.
   
  The JRiver media player knows how to interface with Windows and present a bit-perfect file to external hardware.  There are, of course, others.


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> welp.  i bought a WA2.
> im very excite




You should be!

Congrats. I don't doubt you will love it. I don't know if I missed all the initial hype, but I don't understand why more people don't wax melodious about the WA2 and OTL woo's in general.


----------



## Wapiti

OTLs do have a delicious sound all their own.


----------



## thrak

gorgeous photos, clayton!  i think i could look at them all day long... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I agree!
> Art Deco! But mine is the single-chassis version.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Two additional thoughts: I'm happy for both those who are indifferent and feel cables matter (Swiss?). Also, I wonder if a Service man or woman ever had a WA3/WA6 aboard an Aircraft Carrier with a portable CD Player and headphones inside their quarters - would they find clean AC? Shielded from or bombarded with EMI/RFI? Ambient noise level? Just curious...


 

 interesting question.  afaik carriers provide 3 power "busses"; 2 are relatively clean and are driven from UPS while the 3rd is dirty raw AC direct from the generators.  the 3rd source would definitely be unusable for audio without conditioning.  not sure about the UPS sources and how "clean" they actually are.  also not sure if all 3 sources are provided in crew quarters.  perhaps someone who 'has done time' on a carrier can tell us...


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Most Windows players resample the files on playback *(iTunes does the same on the Mac)*.  In Windows XP, Kmixer (a Windows component in XP and earlier) resamples everything to 16bit/44.1k.  This is generally irrelevant for MP3s as they sound dreadful at best.  However, if you are listening to 44/16 files or better, Kmixer downgrades the sound quality a lot.  It is a poor sample rate converter and it resamples _everything_.


 

  
  very true.  however this can also be mitigated albeit not as easily or cheaply as in windows.  on a mac, you could always load amarra, pure music or audirvana plus.  all of which interface with iTunes for file management and playlist control but offload the actual playback of the files which is then run through better, bitperfect, drivers instead of running through CoreAudio (the mac's kmixer fwiw).  i've been using amarra mini lately and it is a revelation!


----------



## Wapiti

I'm not an iThingee type and just learned of Amarra.  It gets great reviews, but it is scary expensive.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thrak said:


> gorgeous photos, clayton!  i think i could look at them all day long...


 

 Thanks! Silver Woo amps look really dramatic when photographed in b&w. And in color too!
   
  I really enjoy looking at the interiors of the tubes--from the tiny springs and hooks to the minute scratches on the micas.
   
Woo Audio 4
Woo Audio 6
Woo Audio 22


----------



## irishsammy

Hi guys. Just a quick question for any tube gurus watching...

I bought a Sophia 274b rectifier used for my WA6-SE and it doesn't look right. It has no shoulders...i.e. it's a "balloon" envelope...and on the base, it says "Sophia 274b" in regular printing instead of "Sophia Electric" in that curly cursive. It doesn't sound that bad but I still wonder. Is it a fake or just old?

Any help is appreciated.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I'm not an iThingee type and just learned of Amarra.  It gets great reviews, but it is scary expensive.


 

 yeah, i waffled a bit because of the cost.  so i tried the other 2 as they are significantly cheaper.  in the end there was no question that amarra was the best of breed so i decided to get the mini version (limited to 192kHz but otherwise the same) for a good bit less.  pure music comes close and also has a nifty dynamic range meter but i didnt like that it didn't play well with last.fm.  be forewarned though, if you do try amarra it may not be so easy to pass on it once you've heard it.  then again, ymmv...


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Most Windows players resample the files on playback (iTunes does the same on the Mac).  In Windows XP, Kmixer (a Windows component in XP and earlier) resamples everything to 16bit/44.1k.  This is generally irrelevant for MP3s as they sound dreadful at best.  However, if you are listening to 44/16 files or better, Kmixer downgrades the sound quality a lot.  It is a poor sample rate converter and it resamples _everything_.
> 
> XP: Ideally you want to bypass Kmixer in XP and send the data stream directly out of your soundcard or interface directly to your DAC.  ASIO is a plug-in which performs this.  Winamp may have a ASIO plug-in.  Often the best and easiest is to use ASIO4ALL_, _a universal ASIO driver.
> 
> ...


 


  I think you forgot on Kernel Streaming in Windows 7. (not sure if vista supports it)


----------



## Icenine2

Those pictures are really good!  Did you polish everything first?  Nice..............
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks! Silver Woo amps look really dramatic when photographed in b&w. And in color too!
> 
> I really enjoy looking at the interiors of the tubes--from the tiny springs and hooks to the minute scratches on the micas.
> 
> ...


----------



## Icenine2

J River is excellent.  I used it when I had the WA22 and now w/the LF.  The 17 version is out now too.  You can read about it on their website and of course they have a dedicated forum as well.  All good to my ears and the price is really good.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> tell me more about  this jriver media player.  and this talk of SQ out of the player.  does the decoder or whatever players use make a difference?  am i missing out by using my BELOVED winamp?  she's served me well when others have mocked me and treated me poorly... for almost 15 years!  so careful with your words
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





irishsammy said:


> Hi guys. Just a quick question for any tube gurus watching...
> I bought a Sophia 274b rectifier used for my WA6-SE and it doesn't look right. It has no shoulders...i.e. it's a "balloon" envelope...and on the base, it says "Sophia 274b" in regular printing instead of "Sophia Electric" in that curly cursive. It doesn't sound that bad but I still wonder. Is it a fake or just old?
> Any help is appreciated.


 

 Picture(s) please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> yeah, i waffled a bit because of the cost.  so i tried the other 2 as they are significantly cheaper.  in the end there was no question that amarra was the best of breed so i decided to get the mini version (limited to 192kHz but otherwise the same) for a good bit less.  *pure music comes close and also has a nifty dynamic range meter but i didnt like that it didn't play well with last.fm.*  be forewarned though, if you do try amarra it may not be so easy to pass on it once you've heard it.  then again, ymmv...


 

 Did you try the Audio Playthrough feature?


----------



## irishsammy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Picture(s) please


 
   
  Good point.  Here are some pics.


----------



## grokit

I don't think it's a fake, I believe that is the non-Princess 274B rigid-plate "globe" version, perhaps someone else can confirm:
   
  http://www.sophiaelectric.eu/us/b/274b-274a/0?r=171


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> I think you forgot on Kernel Streaming in Windows 7. (not sure if vista supports it)


 

 Kernel streaming has been around since Windows 98.  The terminology is a bit confusing.


----------



## irishsammy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I don't think it's a fake, I believe that is the non-Princess 274B rigid-plate "globe" version, perhaps someone else can confirm:
> 
> http://www.sophiaelectric.eu/us/b/274b-274a/0?r=171


 

 Good call.  I wasn't aware that those existed.  I've got an email into Sophia so I'll see if they can confirm.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> very true.  however this can also be mitigated albeit not as easily or cheaply as in windows.  on a mac, you could always load amarra, pure music or audirvana plus.  all of which interface with iTunes for file management and playlist control but offload the actual playback of the files which is then run through better, bitperfect, drivers instead of running through CoreAudio (the mac's kmixer fwiw).  i've been using amarra mini lately and it is a revelation!


 

 x2!  _Amarra Mini inside the listening room... _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> yeah, i waffled a bit because of the cost.  so i tried the other 2 as they are significantly cheaper.  in the end there was no question that amarra was the best of breed so i decided to get the mini version (limited to 192kHz but otherwise the same) for a good bit less.  pure music comes close and also has a nifty dynamic range meter but i didnt like that it didn't play well with last.fm.  be forewarned though, if you do try amarra it may not be so easy to pass on it once you've heard it.  then again, ymmv...


 

 Waffled a bit? Surely you're understating this some, no?_ I waffled... then wobbled... and fell down on the floor_. When I climbed back up into my leather chair, everything looked the same - the message on the computer screen read:  "Your 15 Day Trial with Amarra Mini has expired." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I waffled some more...
   
  How does the expression go... Once you tasted the sweet nectar, everything else will seem bitter... or something like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Clearly, we all know how this story ended!


----------



## Rawrbington

Sweet! got the WASAPI plugin for winamp!
  never knew anything about that stuff.
  i wub you guys


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Sweet! got the WASAPI plugin for winamp!
> never knew anything about that stuff.
> i wub you guys


 


  Head-Fi in general, but the 'Unite' thread in particular is a great place for a Woo owner to be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Here, you can hear chants of Sly & The Family Stone..._ "I Want To Take You H-i-g-h-e-r."_


----------



## Pudu

Thinking about a DAC to stick in between a potential Squeezebox and the WA2. Anyone have any suggestions that play well with the Woo and are better than the SB built in DAC? 


Rawrbington, you should give Foobar a try. I know everyone on here says that, and I know it has a bit of a learning curve, but I do think, for the price, it's worth trying out. I have looked at most of the other options and I keep coming to back to foobar. It's the no bloat - just plays your music - change it to suit your needs option. Worth a try anyway.


----------



## grokit

I haven't heard it but impressions of the Bifrost seem very good and you don't have to pay for a USB input if you don't need it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> OTLs do have a delicious sound all their own.


 


   
  In a way you can't really describe in words I've discovered.


----------



## Austin Morrow

I've got an WA6SE coming in two months (Full review on that coming soon) that I'll pair with my HD650 and the Bifrost. Can't wait to hear how it sounds.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Sweet! got the WASAPI plugin for winamp!
> never knew anything about that stuff.
> i wub you guys


 


   
  I used winamp for a long time simply because most other players didn't offer an ASIO plug-in (this was before wasapi existed).  Jriver was the first thing I've found that is better.  Not counting foobar of course which has the bitstreaming options but is an ugly program with a terrible UI in my opinion.  Jriver not only sounds better than Winamp or foobar but has the nicest interface I've ever used in that it is configurable in so many ways to suit the tastes of the user.  I had always dreamed of a player that let me tile albums sorted by artist in a scrollable top window, and when one is clicked on the albums within that artist category appear in a list below broken up by specific album with coverart laid on the left side.  When I discovered you can make Jriver look *exactly* like this I was psyched, and the superior audio quality is very nice icing on the cake.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Rawrbington, you should give Foobar a try. I know everyone on here says that, and I know it has a bit of a learning curve, but I do think, for the price, it's worth trying out. I have looked at most of the other options and I keep coming to back to foobar. It's the no bloat - just plays your music - change it to suit your needs option. Worth a try anyway.


 

 i can't use foobar.  i've tried. i have it.  i don't get it.  i see its potential but i just don't get it.  it may be because i've used winamp for so long that i look for foobar to do things the same way as winamp and then it doesn't so i get mad at it and want to destroy it.
   
  someday maybe i'll "get it".
   
  as for jriver, how long is the trial?
  and is jriver 14.0.50 really REALLY outdated and worthless?
  cause thats the only version i have access to atm


----------



## Pudu

grokit said:


> I haven't heard it but impressions of the Bifrost seem very good and you don't have to pay for a USB input if you don't need it.




 I'm probably leaning that direction since I already have the Lyr. I just hadn't heard much about synergy with OTL's in general and WA2 in particular. Seems like good value for money right now. Cheers.



rawrbington said:


> i can't use foobar.  i've tried. i have it.  i don't get it.  i see its potential but i just don't get it.  it may be because i've used winamp for so long that i look for foobar to do things the same way as winamp and then it doesn't so i get mad at it and want to destroy it.
> 
> someday maybe i'll "get it".
> 
> ...





I went through that stage too. I found it tough to get used to the playlist driven concept but all of a sudden everything clicked and now I really like it. I would say that it could be a bit easier to use out of the box with a few important bits less buried in the preferences. The other options - Winamp, Monkey, Jriver - all seem, now that I've come to terms with Foobar, like I have to jump through their hoops to get to where I want.

Personally, my biggest gripe with software (not just audio) is the bloat that so many suffer from. I don't want an audio player that does video and torrents as well as being integrated with Facebook, YouTube and Twatter - just one that plays music brilliantly.


----------



## Silent One

I enjoy coming to the Racetrack and watching the *J* Car perform (Admittedly, in the stands wearing OS X gear but...). I like having options and found it was the best option for me on the Windows side at this time. However, this past weekend I have been working on a Linux install - completed but not yet running...


----------



## Rawrbington

k. got jriver 16.0.39.
  it seems to play flac by default which is nice.
  any plugins or settings i need to tweak?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





thrak said:


> yeah, i waffled a bit because of the cost.  so i tried the other 2 as they are significantly cheaper.  in the end there was no question that amarra was the best of breed so i decided to get the mini version (limited to 192kHz but otherwise the same) for a good bit less.  pure music comes close and also has a nifty dynamic range meter but i didnt like that it didn't play well with last.fm.  be forewarned though, if you do try amarra it may not be so easy to pass on it once you've heard it.  then again, ymmv...


 


  Amarra is the best.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Personally, my biggest gripe with software (not just audio) is the bloat that so many suffer from. I don't want an audio player that does video and torrents as well as being integrated with Facebook, YouTube and Twatter - just one that plays music brilliantly.


 
   
  Me, too.  I do not use computer audio much for listening but I like Foobar: crisp, clean, small.  It does not hold your hand and make friends however.  I'm sure many miss cozy windows, colors, drop downs, etc.  Then again, I will never put together a playlist or even use shuffle play.


----------



## Silent One

I don't like my software music programs gettin' all cozy with me either. Thursday night I downloaded Linux (Voyger MPD) onto my PC to run from a Virtual Machine. Running the program from the server could be just the presentation my Woo is looking for (clean-lean-mean). Hope to test drive it this week or next.


----------



## xinque

Wow, all this talk really has me questioning the software I use to play my music.  So seems like everyone's on Jriver for PC, any recommendation for Mac?  I'm just using iTunes at the moment.  Also, anyone know if it makes a big difference between using USB vs optical / coaxial digital on a DAC?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Wow, all this talk really has me questioning the software I use to play my music.  So seems like everyone's on Jriver for PC, any recommendation for Mac?  I'm just using iTunes at the moment.  Also, anyone know if it makes a big difference between using USB vs optical / coaxial digital on a DAC?


 


  Fidelia!


----------



## Wapiti

At some point I will put together a dedicated server/NAS.  I understand the appeal on one level.  Yet, it also looks like a lot of work when I  can just get up and put a CD in a transport or LP on a 'table.
   
  Part of this may because I listen primarily to classical.  Library programs typically struggle with the complexities of organizing classical (I'm sure this is improving).  I also listen to albums from beginning to end - I hate the bleeding chunks of random play.
   
  Back to listening to a new pair of Shuguang 50 years Treasure 300B (coupled with a pair of Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z and a pair of Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifiers).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Wow, all this talk really has me questioning the software I use to play my music.  So seems like everyone's on Jriver for PC, any recommendation for Mac?  I'm just using iTunes at the moment.  Also, anyone know if it makes a big difference between using USB vs optical / coaxial digital on a DAC?


 

 Amarra - 1
  Pure Music - 2
  Audirvana Plus - 3
  Fidelia - 3
  Decibel - 5
   
  This is how I currently have them slotted; have not tried BitPerfect though. To answer your interface question, it would depend on your DAC - some utilize or have a better implementation than others. For example, some DACs may have a superior USB interface over their S/PDIF interface, the opposite or may even have both interfaces of quality. My DAC has the latter traits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Also, a word of caution. Most sessions, I'll use one Player throughout. Now and again, I'll run through maybe three of the players back and forth during a session. What I discovered this past summer however, is that the Players don't always let go! So, the next Player heard may not be at its best. Now I restart the computer for a clean break in processes from one Player to another.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> At some point I will put together a dedicated server/NAS.  I understand the appeal on one level.  Yet, it also looks like a lot of work when I  can just get up and put a CD in a transport or LP on a 'table.
> 
> Part of this may because I listen primarily to classical.  Library programs typically struggle with the complexities of organizing classical (I'm sure this is improving).  I also listen to albums from beginning to end - I hate the bleeding chunks of random play.
> 
> Back to listening to a new pair of Shuguang 50 years Treasure 300B (coupled with a pair of Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z and a pair of Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifiers).


 


  The server/NAS will be work if only because you may get it dialed-in, or so you thought, and have not ready for prime-time glitches despite following directions (synergistic stumbling?). Sometimes, I take delight in serving myself as oppose to automating my enjoyment of tea, music, food and so on. It is a pleasure to be involved in the moment.
   
  Extra minutes minutes to make a perfect bowl of tea? Extra minutes during a session to load the CD transport and/or change the LP's? Worth each and every additional minute. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Especially with your genre and listening preferences (start-to-finish). I will also admit to tripping over the cataloging of Classical music inside my own library..._ it's difficult!_


----------



## Rawrbington

im impressed with jriver.
  from the look and customizability(very similar to winamp so feels like home), to the searching actually being of value(middle finger foobar) and fixing tags being a breeze.
  love it!
   
  got a big week coming up.  my fischers get here tuesday and the woo friday i hope.  cause monday is the absolute worst day to receive new toys =(


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im impressed with jriver.
> from the look and customizability(very similar to winamp so feels like home), to the searching actually being of value(middle finger foobar) and fixing tags being a breeze.
> love it!
> 
> got a big week coming up.  my fischers get here tuesday and the woo friday i hope.  cause monday is the absolute worst day to receive new toys =(


 







 _EEEEEEE-a-s-y_ Rawrbington... little ones surfing the site as Guests may take your comment as license. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad it's all coming together for you.


----------



## Rawrbington

sorry lol. i get excited sometimes


----------



## Silent One

While I'm not offended, don't wanna see a fellow member (another one) get banned either.


----------



## Silent One

Looking back... to July 2010
   
  My very first set up out of the box: Mac > Optical Out > E-MU USB Interface > 1/4 TS Mono/RCA Out > WA6SE > RCA 6EW7/Sophia Princess 274B > Denon AH-D5000.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





pudu said:


> The other options - Winamp, Monkey, Jriver - all seem, now that I've come to terms with Foobar, like I have to jump through their hoops to get to where I want.


 
  I'm not sure how much time you spent with Jriver, but if you take your time and tweak the UI enough it definitely does not give the feeling of having to jump through hoops or do things it's way.  My favorite thing about it is that you can completely remove *any* UI element you don't like or don't use.  When I open mine it presents a scrollable top window with artists, and a bottom window which shows albums for the selected artist and simple playback controls at the top.  Nothing else whatsoever.  No media window, no music store links, no directory tree filled with internet radio or device sync tabs I don't use.  Nada.  I could hardly believe it when I found the app so willing to re-arrange itself exactly how I liked it.  I like a very clean simple layout, just the music and that's it.  Jriver obliges. 
   
  On the other side of the coin, it has everything but the kitchen sink including MadVR based video playback if one so desired.  Lots of bang for the buck.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm not sure how much time you spent with Jriver, but if you take your time and tweak the UI enough it definitely does not give the feeling of having to jump through hoops or do things it's way.  My favorite thing about it is that you can completely remove *any* UI element you don't like or don't use.  When I open mine it presents a scrollable top window with artists, and a bottom window which shows albums for the selected artist and simple playback controls at the top.  Nothing else whatsoever.  No media window, no music store links, no directory tree filled with internet radio or device sync tabs I don't use.  Nada.  I could hardly believe it when I found the app so willing to re-arrange itself exactly how I liked it.  I like a very clean simple layout, just the music and that's it.  Jriver obliges.
> 
> On the other side of the coin, it has everything but the kitchen sink including MadVR based video playback if one so desired.  Lots of bang for the buck.


 

  
  how do i do that? and does jriver have any options of organizing folders or putting songs all in one spot like itunes does?
   
   
   
  also on another note. i just tried rolling in my Sylvania 6EW7 instead of the Raytheon 6EW7 i usually use on my WA6SE. it gave it a more tubey sound with a little bit more lower end. but the soundstage and dynamics disappeared. the bass seemed sloppier and it had a bit of a smeared sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 might be cause they have little burn-in, but too scared to listen to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  oh and hi silentone! <3


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how do i do that? and does jriver have any options of organizing folders or putting songs all in one spot like itunes does?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey DubstepGirl! 
   
  I wouldn't worry about smearing too much until I at least crossed the 75 hour mark. And then pay closer attention as it heads toward 100-125. _Now at that point I'd eject! _




  By the way, I found the holiday week last week to be amazing - I learned of some members still feeding their Woo Audio amps (Finely Crafted in New York) iTunes. Can't wait to see these members take their systems _higher... because we care here at the 'Unite' thread! _


----------



## grokit

So I found an old photo of the back of Seamaster's Woo-modified WA22. My WA22 already has the two XLR balanced inputs (no SE input), and I would love to add a single pair of balanced pre-outs to it. Does anybody remember if the XLR pre-outs that were added in the back of his were attenuated by the volume control, or were they a constant level?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So I found an old photo of the back of Seamaster's Woo-modified WA22. My WA22 already has the two XLR balanced inputs (no SE input), and I would love to add a single pair of balanced pre-outs to it. Does anybody remember if the XLR pre-outs that were added in the back of his were attenuated by the volume control, or were they a constant level?


 
   
   
   
   
   



  I really can picture a WA22 All Black Clad on my desk... sorry I couldn't be more help. But Clayton or sillysally might if they're logged on (a PM?). Did Seamaster roll a IsoClean or Furutech in the back there?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 
   
   I really can picture a WA22 All Black Clad on my desk... sorry I couldn't be more help. But Clayton or sillysally might if they're logged on (a PM?).
   
   
  ...and I can totally see a WA22 balanced preamp feeding a Dark Star (or more likely my Alesis for the foreseeable future), allowing me to consolidate my two rigs and their respective headphones


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I really can picture a WA22 All Black Clad on my desk... sorry I couldn't be more help. But Clayton or sillysally might if they're logged on (a PM?).
> 
> ...and I can totally see a WA22 preamp feeding a Dark Star, allowing me to consolidate my two rigs and their respective headphones


 







  Ohhhhhh... now we see you working!


----------



## WindyCityCy

My WA22 has XLR outs and I used the volume control to control the level sent to my powered monitors until I got the w4s dac2.   The wa22 worked quite well as a preamp however I have limited space and had a hard time switching the toggle on the back.  
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> So I found an old photo of the back of Seamaster's Woo-modified WA22. My WA22 already has the two XLR balanced inputs (no SE input), and I would love to add a single pair of balanced pre-outs to it. Does anybody remember if the XLR pre-outs that were added in the back of his were attenuated by the volume control, or were they a constant level?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> My WA22 has XLR outs and I used the volume control to control the level sent to my powered monitors until I got the w4s dac2.   The wa22 worked quite well as a preamp however I have limited space and had a hard time switching the toggle on the back.


 
   
  Does the switch in the back switch between the two outs, or between the front and the back?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Thinking about a DAC to stick in between a potential Squeezebox and the WA2. Anyone have any suggestions that play well with the Woo and are better than the SB built in DAC?


 

 This depends on which Squeezebox you're referring to. I think that the _Touch and the Transporter_ have excellent DAC sections. But If you want a separate DAC, the _Cambridge Audio_ is a nice unit.
   
  I had a Cambridge Audio DAC paired with a Squeezebox Duet before I decided on the Transporter. The latter combo was very satisfying, but the new Transporter SE is a great solution imo. Plus the Transporter SE has balanced outputs if you decide to go with a WA22 someday


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Does the switch in the back switch between the two outs, or between the front and the back?


 


  On my stock WA22, the toggle switch is for either SE/balanced selection.


----------



## Pudu

xcalibur255 said:


> I'm not sure how much time you spent with Jriver, but if you take your time and tweak the UI enough it definitely does not give the feeling of having to jump through hoops or do things it's way.  My favorite thing about it is that you can completely remove *any* UI element you don't like or don't use.  When I open mine it presents a scrollable top window with artists, and a bottom window which shows albums for the selected artist and simple playback controls at the top.  Nothing else whatsoever.  No media window, no music store links, no directory tree filled with internet radio or device sync tabs I don't use.  Nada.  I could hardly believe it when I found the app so willing to re-arrange itself exactly how I liked it.  I like a very clean simple layout, just the music and that's it.  Jriver obliges.
> 
> On the other side of the coin, it has everything but the kitchen sink including MadVR based video playback if one so desired.  Lots of bang for the buck.




To be fair, I didn't give Jriver enough time to see what could be done with it. I didn't see what I was gaining and I have no problem with my current Foobar in terms of finding music/tagging/ipod support (nano is filled with audio books)/ sound quality, and the potential for bloat really turned me off, so I didn't put the effort into learning it. 

I originally hated the learning curve associated with customizing Foobar. However as I used it more I kept removing more and more from the UI learning that pretty and flashy usually just get in the way of function. 

It's nice that with all the options around everyone can find a program that suits their requirements and still enjoy good sound. 




nututubes said:


> This depends on which Squeezebox you're referring to. I think that the _Touch and the Transporter_ have excellent DAC sections. But If you want a separate DAC, the _Cambridge Audio_ is a nice unit.
> 
> I had a Cambridge Audio DAC paired with a Squeezebox Duet before I decided on the Transporter. The latter combo was very satisfying, but the new Transporter SE is a great solution imo. Plus the Transporter SE has balanced outputs if you decide to go with a WA22 someday




Thanks for your take! It's the Touch I'm considering. I dislike using a laptop as source unless I'm sitting at a desk and the Touch looks like a decent option to get my music up to where the amp and headphones are. I don't know much about the transporter. I know many consider the DAC in the Touch to be decent. I was wondering how high I need to go with an external to start getting any advantage over the built in. I think maybe I'll try out the Touch and then see how things sound. 

Cheers


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> This depends on which Squeezebox you're referring to. I think that the _Touch and the Transporter_ have excellent DAC sections. But If you want a separate DAC, the _Cambridge Audio_ is a nice unit.
> 
> I had a Cambridge Audio DAC paired with a Squeezebox Duet before I decided on the Transporter. The latter combo was very satisfying, but the new Transporter SE is a great solution imo. Plus the Transporter SE has balanced outputs if you decide to go with a WA22 someday


 
   
  There is a very big difference between the Touch and Transporter DACs.  The transporter on its own is a high end unit (although I got my modified by Dan Wright to add a tubed output stage).  To me, the Touch requires a DAC to make it high end.  I have used a Channel Islands Audio VDA-2 which worked very well with the touch.  I am now using a Van Alstine FET Valve Hybrid DAC which has brought it to a new level.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





pudu said:


> However as I used it more I kept removing more and more from the UI learning that pretty and flashy usually just get in the way of function.


 
   
  This is often the case.  I am very impressed however that JRiver is so customizeable. 
   
  Enjoy today's race!


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> This is often the case.  I am very impressed however that JRiver is so customizeable.
> 
> Enjoy today's race!




Thanks! 

The short lap, and the huge back straight will hopefully add a bit of variety to the usual results which have become so tedious this year. And if it rains ....


Truthfully I'll be glad when this season is over. There were some good races but overall a bit of a pointless championship.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dminches said:


> There is a very big difference between the Touch and Transporter DACs.  The transporter on its own is a high end unit (although I got my modified by Dan Wright to add a tubed output stage).  To me, the Touch requires a DAC to make it high end.  I have used a Channel Islands Audio VDA-2 which worked very well with the touch.  I am now using a Van Alstine FET Valve Hybrid DAC which has brought it to a new level.


 

  (Homer Simpson voice)..... umm Modwright 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And of course your right about the differences between each DAC.
  Some day I'll get the SE Transporter and send it off to Dan. Right now I just couldn't part with the Transporter for a Modwright job.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Thanks!
> The short lap, and the huge back straight will hopefully add a bit of variety to the usual results which have become so tedious this year. And if it rains ....
> Truthfully I'll be glad when this season is over. There were some good races but overall a bit of a pointless championship.


 

 you ain't kidding! this is starting to feel like schumacher redux.  the sequel that nobody wanted.  maybe next year mclaren can finally get the constructor's again...
   
  sorry for the OT post, couldn't resist.


----------



## Wapiti

Agreed.
   
  Yet, F1 somehow is always still fun. 
   
  I hope to get to Montreal next season.
   
  Woo-related, one of my new 300B tubes was a little noisy.  Fortunately a quick pin cleaning took care of it. 
   
  The Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z is striking: energetic, extended in both highs and lows, nice micro-dynamics, textured. I am impressed.


----------



## Pudu

wapiti said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Yet, F1 somehow is always still fun.
> 
> ...





Montreal's a good time! I went to qualifying this year but went home to watch the race - thank goodness. I think everyone should go to one race to fully appreciate the speed, the noise, and the visceral experience of F1. But I've been to enough of them to know that if you actually want to see what's going on, stay at home in front of the television. 

Soon time to start messing with my WA2 which is still stock. I've had the Tung Sol 5998s and Genalex Gold Lion 6922 recommended. Anyone able to say what these guys would do to the sound versus stock? Thanks for the guidance. I'm very much a tubenoob.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> (Homer Simpson voice)..... umm Modwright
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  There is one available on Audiogon (I have no idea who is selling it or what shape it is in).  Go for it!  The tubed output stage is wonderful and gives you so many new tube-rolling options.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





thrak said:


> you ain't kidding! this is starting to feel like schumacher redux.  the sequel that nobody wanted.  maybe next year mclaren can finally get the constructor's again...
> 
> sorry for the OT post, couldn't resist.


 

 I just don't understand any of the racing interest at all.  I've looked at it from every perspective and I've never been able to divine even a moment of understanding for any of the contests at hand, and i say this after having been the Senior Video Editor at SpeedVision ( now SPEED) for 2 years between 1998 -2000 and having actually edited F1 racing (and every other type of racing, including a documentary on the life of Mario Andretti) for Speedvision for nearly 4 years when Schumacher overcame Mika Häkkinen and started winning every contest handily.  Meeting some of the racers, working closely with the race announcers and show producers I've never understood one moment of fascination for these events.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I just don't understand any of the racing interest at all.


 
   
  This sounds like my reaction to football, basketball, golf, NASCAR, etc.  Indescribably boring.
   
  I'm a lousy fan of F1 and MotoGP.  I hardly care who wins and have little interest in the personalities.  I don't read about either at any time, just watch the races (MotoGP is about perfect at about 45 minutes).
   
  I teach how to drive on race tracks and have always owned high performance cars and motorcycles (I have never even owned a vehicle with an automatic.)  I like the machinery of F1 and MotoGP..  It fascinates me what they can do. 
   
  I raced large sailboats for years, but rarely watch a race.  It is the doing which is compelling.


----------



## Icenine2

I do think J Button did make a good show of it this year.  Plus I do think McLaren is going to give Red Bull a run for their money next season.  The Bull even w/Seb Vet can't dominate forever!  Not to say SV couldn't go somewhere else after a while but I don't see that happening w/all the money behind the effort.  I love F1 but am addicted to Soccer (Futbol).
   
  Sorry for the OT


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> On my stock WA22, the toggle switch is for either SE/balanced selection.


 
   
  Thanks, but I was referring to the additional switch that is located near the added pre-outs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks, but I was referring to the additional switch that is located near the added pre-outs.


 

*What's the Worst That Can Happen? (2001)*
   
  Now you've got me curious... and countless others. The mystery may even spur registration to Head-Fi, if only so Guests can make suggestions or comments surrounding that switch. Jude would be proud of the traffic (jam)!





   
  In the event you decide to _throw_ _the switch_, turn on the webcam...


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks, but I was referring to the additional switch that is located near the added pre-outs.


 
   
  They probably choose which pair of outputs are active.  My guess is one pair is balanced and the other SE.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> They probably choose which pair of outputs are active.  My guess is one pair is balanced and the other SE.


 

 Hmm, my guess is that they choose between the front headphone outs and the rear balanced outs. Seamaster's old customized WA22 that I pictured doesn't have any SE inputs or outputs in the back, just the TRS jack in front.
   
  Edit to add images:


----------



## Rawrbington

damnit.
  i think one of my tubes just went microphonic...
   
  BOOOOOO


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hmm, my guess is that they choose between the front headphone outs and the rear balanced outs. Seamaster's old customized WA22 that I pictured doesn't have any SE inputs or outputs in the back, just the TRS jack in front.


 
   
  It sure could be for this purpose and it makes sense, even though in an awkward location.
   
  I was thinking that the switched paralleled the inputs on the back right (SE and balanced).


----------



## Rawrbington

oh NO!
  its my beyers not the tubes!
  What?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think one of my tubes just went microphonic...


 

 What kind of sound is it making? Does it look odd in any way? (brighter, glow where there was none, missing glow).  What kind of tube?
   
  Often a little noise can be resolved by cleaning the pins carefully.  (Let the tube cool before taking it out.)
   
  While tempting, don't tap the tube when it is hot as it is hard on them.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> It sure could be for this purpose and it makes sense, even though in an awkward location.
> 
> I was thinking that the switched paralleled the inputs on the back right (SE and balanced).


 

 It's still labeled that way, but the SE input was replaced with a balanced one. That switch does switch between these two balanced inputs (I already have that part of the mod). I am referring to the output switch in the middle of the back. It is very awkward, that is why I would like to eliminate it if possible as I only need one pre-out (but I can see how a second one could prove to be useful).


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> What kind of sound is it making? Does it look odd in any way? (brighter, glow where there was none, missing glow).  What kind of tube?
> 
> Often a little noise can be resolved by cleaning the pins carefully.  (Let the tube cool before taking it out.)
> 
> While tempting, don't tap the tube when it is hot as it is hard on them.


 

  
  ok this is really weird.
  i was listening to my 990/600 ohm beyers out of the wa3 and i took a phone call so i turned down the amp a little and took the call.
  got off the phone put the cans on and it sounded very odd.  tinny hallow and distorted.
  figured it was a tube so i powered down and let it cool.
  i swapped the 6080 power? tube for another.
  plugged in my 80 ohm beyers for whatever reason.
  played it.  it sounded normal...
  so i thought obv it was the power tube
   
  then i switched back to the 990/600 and it sounded poor again.  hmmm.
   
  so now i switched the 990s to my pioneer reciever and they sound fine.
  What


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ok this is really weird.
> i was listening to my 990/600 ohm beyers out of the wa3 and i took a phone call so i turned down the amp a little and took the call.
> got off the phone put the cans on and it sounded very odd.  tinny hallow and distorted.
> figured it was a tube so i powered down and let it cool.
> ...


 

 Audio anomaly I guess. How do they (DT990s) sound back in your WA3?


----------



## Rawrbington

ok now im questioning my sobriety and sanity.
   
  initially when i switched back to the 990s after the 770/80 they sounded poor still.  just like before i swapped tubes.
  so i turned off everything computer dac amp.
  rebooted and then went to the pioneer and it sounded fine.
   
  after cooling down the woo again i plug in the 990s again and...
  its normal.  and beautiful.
  im freaking crazy lol
   
   
  i had been messing about with the wasapi wasapi event asio and direct sound stuff earlier and got some strange sounds.
  hell idk


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> This sounds like my reaction to football, basketball, golf, NASCAR, etc.  Indescribably boring.
> 
> I'm a lousy fan of F1 and MotoGP.  I hardly care who wins and have little interest in the personalities.  I don't read about either at any time, just watch the races (MotoGP is about perfect at about 45 minutes).
> 
> ...


 

 I enjoyed sitting in at The Long Beach Grand Prix over the years - the electricity crackling in the air, a wonderful time to be had by many. But I only enjoy watching races on TV every now and again (different types). And I've long loved Cars & Tuners. Do you remember the Legendary AMG Hammer's introduction in 1986? Imported by the famed Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories Boutique? I got my small, inconspicuous start at BHMA in '93.
   
  Went from small customer, to my eventual grooming by BHMA who helped me launch my own small boutique.They supported me by sending me their overflow business - demand far exceeded services. These were heady times... and actually made me want to pay attention and attend races and other related events.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ok now im questioning my sobriety and sanity.
> 
> initially when i switched back to the 990s after the 770/80 they sounded poor still.  just like before i swapped tubes.
> so i turned off everything computer dac amp.
> ...


 

_Here's what I do know..._
   
  Glad to hear you're back on track. Here is where the value of note taking comes in at. Some of us here keep journals. Others, simply document experiences as they occur... like yours, for example. A very powerful exercise, note taking. You may need to revisit the crime scene and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to remember details. Curiously, was it your mobile, cordless or land-line in use at the time?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hmm, my guess is that they choose between the front headphone outs and the rear balanced outs. Seamaster's old customized WA22 that I pictured doesn't have any SE inputs or outputs in the back, just the TRS jack in front.
> 
> Edit to add images:


 
   
   
   
   
   


 To me, the placement of the switch suggests control over pre-amp outs 1 & 2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Perhaps, you'll share with us what Jack says...


----------



## WindyCityCy

I'm relaxing by the pool in puerto Vallarta this week so can't verify my setup but I'm fairly sure my wa22 only has a single XLR out and that the extra switch selects between the headphones and the outputs on the back.  
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> It's still labeled that way, but the SE input was replaced with a balanced one. That switch does switch between these two balanced inputs (I already have that part of the mod). I am referring to the output switch in the middle of the back. It is very awkward, that is why I would like to eliminate it if possible as I only need one pre-out (but I can see how a second one could prove to be useful).


 


   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   


 To me, the placement of the switch suggests control over pre-amp outs 1 & 2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Perhaps, you'll share with us what Jack says...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I'm relaxing by the pool in puerto Vallarta this week so can't verify my setup but I'm fairly sure my wa22 only has a single XLR out and that the extra switch selects between the headphones and the outputs on the back.


 
   
  After chasing the mythical TS Round Plates and coming up short, this member here is the one who needs to be in PV pool-side.


----------



## WindyCityCy

A week in pv may be cheaper


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Here's what I do know..._
> 
> Glad to hear you're back on track. Here is where the value of note taking comes in at. Some of us here keep journals. Others, simply document experiences as they occur... like yours, for example. A very powerful exercise, note taking. You may need to revisit the crime scene and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to remember details. Curiously, was it your mobile, cordless or land-line in use at the time?


 
  i had been on the phone for 10-15minutes sitting at my desk that the amp is on.  then i got off the phone and put it on my desk.  put the headphones back on and thats when they sounded wrong. im still baffled.  my buddy told me that tubes can just be finicky when i talked to him earlier.  maybe just an anomaly like Hero said lol
   
  i have switched back to the tung sol 5998 which is what i thought had gone microphonic. it sounds normal.  but i did notice that the 5998 is a beefier than the 6080 sylvania.  the 6080 is a bit more airy and maybe more transparent, but just doesn't have the gain and bottom end that the tung sol has


----------



## grokit

^ The 5998 puts out 2x the power of the 6080, 2 watts vs. 1 (AFAIK) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I'm relaxing by the pool in puerto Vallarta this week so can't verify my setup but I'm fairly sure my wa22 only has a single XLR out and that the extra switch selects between the headphones and the outputs on the back.


 
  That makes the most sense to me, thanks for confirming and please carry on with your restful protocol
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I'm relaxing by the pool in puerto Vallarta this week so can't verify my setup but I'm fairly sure my wa22 only has a single XLR out and that the extra switch selects between the headphones and the outputs on the back.


 
   

   
  While you're enjoying the warmth from the Puerto Vallarta sun, I'm taking the SF chill away by sitting next to these glowing tubes on my WA22.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Continue to have fun in the sun!


----------



## cifani090

Did anyone on this thread buy the mono blocks yet?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Did anyone on this thread buy the mono blocks yet?


 

 Don't think there's anything but the prototype so far: "Order information to be announced"


----------



## Rawrbington

what would i need to run a turntable through my incoming WA2?
  a phono stage?
  or nothing?
 i keep reading that turntables need to be run through a pre amp first, and the wa2 is a pre, so?
  but that just seems too easy.
   
  and whatever i would need who makes decent ENTRY level phono stages or whatever?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what would i need to run a turntable through my incoming WA2?
> a phono stage?
> or nothing?
> i keep reading that turntables need to be run through a pre amp first, and the wa2 is a pre, so?
> ...


 

 No, you'll need a real phono preamp. Phono stages have the appropriate gain and equalization to turn the signal that your phono cartridge produces into the signal your amp is expecting.
   
  As far as "entry level" -- you've been down this road before with the WA3, no? My bang-for-the-buck recommendation is the Clearaudio Nano, which would set you back about $300. If that's too much, I wouldn't recommend going cheaper than something like a Cambridge 640p or NAD PP2/PP3 phono stage (both approx. $120 used), because if the digital bug hits, you'll be upgrading again before you know it.
   
  If you need a table as well, a nice new Rega RP1 (with stock cartridge) and Rega Fono Mini preamp would come in around $600 and do the job really well.


----------



## john57

Normally you would need a phono stage in addition to a pre-amp for more gain and so that the correct RIAA equalization curve can be applied for LP playback. You could just get a USB turntable that does all of this but not the very best in quality.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what would i need to run a turntable through my incoming WA2?
> a phono stage?
> or nothing?
> i keep reading that turntables need to be run through a pre amp first, and the wa2 is a pre, so?
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks!
  exactly what i needed to know.
   
  not really sure about the turntable yet.  i don't know if my retirement in 30 years can afford for me to go down that road.  but, i probably will...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Has anybody here tried/own the WA6SE with the Sofia Rectifier?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bunch of us have the wa6se. the sofia is definitely worth it if u buy that amp


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Has anybody here tried/own the WA6SE with the Sofia Rectifier?


 


   
  I've got that setup and absolutely love it. 
  By the way, has anyone heard of preorder status for the dac?


----------



## shipsupt

I often select the princess in my 6SE.  
   

  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Has anybody here tried/own the WA6SE with the Sofia Rectifier?


----------



## jc9394

Try the Mullard GZ34/37, to me they are better than the Princess and usually goes for less.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody know what the difference is between the Chatham 5998 and the tung sol 5998?
  is the difference large similar to the 5998 vs the 5998A?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody know what the difference is between the Chatham 5998 and the tung sol 5998?
> is the difference large similar to the 5998 vs the 5998A?


 

 All 5998s are made by Tung-Sol, regardless of their branding (like Chatham, Cetron, etc.). This is also true of the coveted Western Electric 421a.
   
  5998a tubes, on the other hand, are more complicated. I've never owned any of them, so I'll let others describe the difference.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> No, you'll need a real phono preamp. Phono stages have the appropriate gain and equalization to turn the signal that your phono cartridge produces into the signal your amp is expecting.


 

 Quick related question.
   
  I have just received a Rega P5 and a Rega Exact 2 cartridge. I am expecting a Musical Surroundings Phonomena 2 preamp in the mail.
   
  Now, can I run the P5 through the Phono Stage into the WA22 or do I need a pre-amp in between? (the Phonomena 2 does not have a volume control)
   
  Any advice would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Quick related question.
> 
> I have just received a Rega P5 and a Rega Exact 2 cartridge. I am expecting a Musical Surroundings Phonomena 2 preamp in the mail.
> 
> ...


 

 Nope, you won't need anything else. The Phonomena 2 has gain settings, not a proper volume control... but it doesn't matter, since the WA22 will be handling all of your volume control needs.
   
  BTW, nice rig. I was looking at the P5s on clearance, but I seem to have waited too long. My P3/24 is very nice, but I've heard that the RB700 tonearm on the P5 is a big step up. You should be very happy with that setup!


----------



## grokit

Yes, you can run the phono stage directly into the SE input of the WA22. The cartridge isn't extremely low output so no need for a step-up, and you should be able to tailor the output level of the Phonomena 2 with the dip switches to give you good control with the WA22's volume pot.
   
  edit, whoops I see this Q was already answered


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes, you can run the phono stage directly into the SE input of the WA22. The cartridge isn't extremely low output so no need for a step-up, and you should be able to tailor the output level of the Phonomena 2 with the dip switches to give you good control with the WA22's volume pot.
> 
> edit, whoops I see this Q was already answered


 
   
   
  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Nope, you won't need anything else. The Phonomena 2 has gain settings, not a proper volume control... but it doesn't matter, since the WA22 will be handling all of your volume control needs.
> 
> BTW, nice rig. I was looking at the P5s on clearance, but I seem to have waited too long. My P3/24 is very nice, but I've heard that the RB700 tonearm on the P5 is a big step up. You should be very happy with that setup!


 


  Many thanks friends!!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try the Mullard GZ34/37, to me they are better than the Princess and usually goes for less.


 

 Funny, I prefer the slightly wider sound stage with the Princess. But both are great.
   


  Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> All 5998s are made by Tung-Sol, regardless of their branding (like Chatham, Cetron, etc.). This is also true of the coveted Western Electric 421a.
> 
> 5998a tubes, on the other hand, are more complicated. I've never owned any of them, so I'll let others describe the difference.


 
   
  The 5998A tube is average at best and not recommended to really bother with.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny, I prefer the slightly wider sound stage with the Princess. But both are great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Agreed on wider soundstage but also softer too, the GZ34/7 are much more dynamic and fun.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Agreed on wider soundstage but also softer too,* the GZ34/7 are much more dynamic and fun.*


 


  I agree with that too. Different strokes I guess.


----------



## jc9394

Did you tried any EML or the FOTM 596? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Highly recommended the 596, combination of Princess and GZ34/7.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody know what the difference is between the Chatham 5998 and the tung sol 5998?
> is the difference large similar to the 5998 vs the 5998A?


 


  5998A is just a 6AS7 in a straight glass, nothing special and almost always GE made.  If you have a Chatham tube with 5998 plates, often labeled as a 2399, then you have found the rarer version of this tube.  Only difference is the grid posts are made of copper rather than steel, which to my ears always results in a slightly more lush and organic sound.  I've heard both and can confirm it holds true for these tubes as well, but don't bother searching for the 2399 if you don't already have a bead on one, as they are almost impossible to find.  I got mine through luck only.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did you tried any EML or the FOTM 596?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  United Electronics Company USAF-596.... I second that recommendation!


----------



## Silent One

20 Questions for the Audiophile --
   
  In recent days, I sought the help of the membership here. What began as a search for a simple year-end tweak, turned into a Q&A series with me asking a few members one or all 20 questions I could think of. And though I'm still sifting and searching, these members were of tremendous help!
   
  Take 2359glenn and Skylab, for example. I asked them so many questions, I may have to change my avatar pix lest they start dreaming about Mermaids. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The membership here is great - it is only proper that I give credit. Special thanks to (in no particular order):  2359glenn; Xcalibur255; Skylab; Clayton SF; jc9394.
   
  Honorable mention to: shipsupt; mikemalter; grokit; WarriroAnt, who would've have been approached had I not gotten exhausted... but are usually there for me! And Dubstep Girl, who met me cafeside to chat (virtually speaking) whether it was 4 am or 4 pm, through this difficult search the past week. 
   
  To all of you... cheers!


----------



## Rawrbington

cheers mate!
  you've been lots of help to me as well as everyone else here.  its pretty top notch.  i was and still am very green to all this stuff but there is no elitism here.  just awesome helpful members.  warm and inviting.
  best thread on headfi imo.
  its like a bonus item that comes with a woo amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> cheers mate!
> you've been lots of help to me as well as everyone else here.  its pretty top notch.  i was and still am very green to all this stuff but there is no elitism here.  just awesome helpful members.  warm and inviting.
> best thread on headfi imo.
> its like a bonus item that comes with a woo amp.


 


_This thread has class, plain and simple! _





  dannie01, the Thread Starter, ought to be feeling right proud.


----------



## jamesnz

Yup, quite possibly one of the best threads/sites on the net to be honest. I don't contribute much cause I don't know as much as others but  it's always a great read!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 20 Questions for the Audiophile --
> 
> In recent days, I sought the help of the membership here. What began as a search for a simple year-end tweak, turned into a Q&A series with me asking a few members one or all 20 questions I could think of. And though I'm still sifting and searching, these members were of tremendous help!
> 
> ...


 

 aww thanks


----------



## GouldPhoto

[size=10pt]Adding to the Thank You Head-Fi WA owners. After reading much of this thread and the many reviews and comparisons of Woo amps, I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of a WA 6SE to go with my Stello DA100 and HD-650's all being fed lossless audio via fubar.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Thanks to everyone here that provides endless information and insight about this hobby.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Steve[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> [size=10pt]Adding to the Thank You Head-Fi WA owners. After reading much of this thread and the many reviews and comparisons of Woo amps, I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of a WA 6SE to go with my Stello DA100 and HD-650's all being fed lossless audio via fubar.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]Thanks to everyone here that provides endless information and insight about this hobby.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]Steve[/size]


 


  It seems you're now ready for Prime Time and we're ready to have you at any hour.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Congrats! Choice of color, tubes?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 20 Questions for the Audiophile --
> 
> In recent days, I sought the help of the membership here. What began as a search for a simple year-end tweak, turned into a Q&A series with me asking a few members one or all 20 questions I could think of. And though I'm still sifting and searching, these members were of tremendous help!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Please share this tweak that you are speaking of...
  When you're ready of course


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It seems you're now ready for Prime Time and we're ready to have you at any hour.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Thanks, how thoughtless to not include details 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Color: Black
  Tubes: 100% stock to start with, tube rolling is too much to deal with initially. Although I think a Sophia Princess may be in order down the road.


----------



## Pudu

gouldphoto said:


> Thanks, how thoughtless to not include details
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You forgot to include your stance on motor sports. Though I think we can infer something from your avatar.


Congrats on the new amp!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> *You forgot to include your stance on motor sports.* Though I think we can infer something from your avatar.
> Congrats on the new amp!


 

 x2!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> Thanks, how thoughtless to not include details
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Excellent! Due to Woo Audio's fit & finish, the way they anodize the cladding, one really can't go wrong choosing either color.


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote: 





pudu said:


> You forgot to include your stance on motor sports. Though I think we can infer something from your avatar.
> Congrats on the new amp!


 


  Thanks, really looking forward to listening to this amp in a couple weeks.
   
  As for motorsports. I am the track photographer for Atlanta Dragway, do some shooting at Road Atlanta for a friends race team. There is no such thing as too much horsepower in a car as long as it can stop.
   
  My avatar image is of John Force (well he's in the car) I shot a few years ago at the Southern Nationals.
   
  Feel free to browse around http://www.gouldphoto.com


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Please share this tweak that you are speaking of...
> When you're ready of course


 


  My breaths had become more pronounced, sometimes heavy, while thinking about getting a really nice 6F8G pair to go with my _WA 6 Special Edition. _





 Proceeding this new found lust was Glenn's discontinuation of 6DE7 adapters for this series.... uh-oh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, the dance of disbelief began - shopping, wanting, waiting for a new pair of tubes with no guarantee I'd even be able to play them. 
   
  So I appealed to Glenn and though he had previously searched high & low for the right 9-pin bases, he really went the extra mile... but to no avail. Also, I quickly discovered the scarcity of premium 6F8G tubes and decided to stand down. It was quite the adventure...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> Thanks, really looking forward to listening to this amp in a couple weeks.
> 
> As for motorsports. I am the track photographer for Atlanta Dragway, do some shooting at Road Atlanta for a friends race team. There is no such thing as too much horsepower in a car as long as it can stop.
> 
> ...


 

_Your link sent my heart racing! _It will take the magic of vacuum tube technology to calm me down tonight.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think my wa2 arrives tomorrow.  i suddenly feel a case of stomach flu coming on.   ill be OT friday and saturday.  and it should be obvious that im not gonna wait till monday to get it.  and the tracking tells me it arrived at the metros major hub early early this morning.
  yeah.
  thats right.
  im excited.
   
  got my fischer fa 011s today.
  kinda dissappointed.
  maybe because they just don't mate with the wa3 like the 600 ohm beyers.
  gonna try em solid state here in a bit.
  kinda cemented the fact that the T1 may be my ultimate goal to match the wa2.  that and a PS digital link iii (or dacmagic or maybe that little new teac)
  but yeah,
  wa2.
  tomorrow.
  speaking of the black color woos.  lately i've become more and more fond of them.  originally i thought silver was the way to go.  but, really i think its all about the black(except you probs gots dust it more).


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> Feel free to browse around http://www.gouldphoto.com


 

 Very nice!


----------



## Rawrbington

thos pictures are incredible.
  very nice indeed.
  love some of the flower pictures.  beautiful


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> kinda cemented the fact that the T1 may be my ultimate goal to match the wa2.


 
  It has been said by quite a few people on these boards that the synergy between these two pieces of gear is so good it is downright spooky.  I believe there is also some overall consensus that the T1 gets along well with OTL tube amps in general.  If they weren't more expensive than the LCD-2 I'd be tempted to put them (back) on my list myself.


----------



## Silent One

www.gouldphoto.com 
  I tried to look at the flowers, but the horses (lots of 'em) kept getting in the way.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think my wa2 arrives tomorrow.  i suddenly feel a case of stomach flu coming on.   ill be OT friday and saturday.  and it should be obvious that im not gonna wait till monday to get it.  and the tracking tells me it arrived at the metros major hub early early this morning.
> yeah.
> thats right.
> im excited.
> ...


 

 Let's hope you don't get called away on an errand, only to find the proverbial slip left in the door...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It has been said by quite a few people on these boards that the synergy between these two pieces of gear is so good it is downright spooky.  I believe there is also some overall consensus that the T1 gets along well with OTL tube amps in general.  If they weren't more expensive than the LCD-2 I'd be tempted to put them (back) on my list myself.


 


  The collective impression I get from the WA2/T1 pairing? _A whole lotta magic!_


----------



## airs

Hello Woo thread, I am joining your ranks - received an immaculate silver finished WA6 yesterday from member Andy777!
   
  I didn't get much time to play around with it but I did try it with my iBasso D4 Mamba's aux out which was quite underwhelming - audible hum past 1:00 on the dial, and a lack of "oomph".  However, I then hooked it up to my SB3's analog output and it was like night and day - zero hum, incredible clarity and tons of power to my HD580.
   
  Really looking forward to upgrading my source now - considering a SBTouch paired with a DacMagic or W4S Dac2.
   
  /wave


----------



## WindyCityCy

Congrats on your woo. I moved from a sb3 to touch and was very happy with the results. 
  
  Quote: 





airs said:


> Hello Woo thread, I am joining your ranks - received an immaculate silver finished WA6 yesterday from member Andy777!
> 
> I didn't get much time to play around with it but I did try it with my iBasso D4 Mamba's aux out which was quite underwhelming - audible hum past 1:00 on the dial, and a lack of "oomph".  However, I then hooked it up to my SB3's analog output and it was like night and day - zero hum, incredible clarity and tons of power to my HD580.
> 
> ...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Congrats on your woo. I moved from a sb3 to touch and was very happy with the results.


 


 Was there any difference in sound quality out of the SPDIF output?


----------



## Rawrbington

NOooooooooooooooooooooooo!
  looks like my woo won't show up till tomorrow.  for which i'll be out of town till saturday night.  =(
  what sucks is the tracking puts it at my local office.  which is less than 2 miles from my house!
  dang you!
  why must you torture me postman!?!?!?!
   
   
  @airs,  hows the match with the HD580?  I bet its pretty awesome.  Enjoy the honeymoon. 
  Does your 6 have a sophia tube in it?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> NOooooooooooooooooooooooo!
> looks like my woo won't show up till tomorrow.  for which i'll be out of town till saturday night.  =(
> what sucks is the tracking puts it at my local office.  which is less than 2 miles from my house!
> dang you!
> ...


 







  Sorry but, it's holiday season... some goodies will get delayed. Can't wait for you to get your hands up around that box! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, you could get lucky - the delay might be in notification only!


----------



## airs

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> @airs,  hows the match with the HD580?  I bet its pretty awesome.  Enjoy the honeymoon.
> Does your 6 have a sophia tube in it?


 


  The HD580 sound outstanding now!  I've had the phones years and thought I knew what they were capable of, but the WA6 has really opened my eyes.
   
  My 6 just has stock tubes, but I am seriously thinking about getting the Sophia Princess and the 7N7/adapters from Jack.  Not that I'm unhappy with the sound in any way, I just wonder how much better it could get...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





airs said:


> The HD580 sound outstanding now!  I've had the phones years and thought I knew what they were capable of, but the WA6 has really opened my eyes.
> 
> My 6 just has stock tubes, but I am seriously thinking about getting the Sophia Princess and the 7N7/adapters from Jack.  Not that I'm unhappy with the sound in any way, I just wonder how much better it could get...


 


  hold on to you seat, it will be day and night.  I will not recommend going with Princess, when I had WA6, I much prefer Mullard GZ34 or EML 5U4G...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My breaths had become more pronounced, sometimes heavy, while thinking about getting a really nice 6F8G pair to go with my _WA 6 Special Edition. _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ahh... tube rolling!
  Not for the faint of heart


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sorry but, it's holiday season... some goodies will get delayed. Can't wait for you to get your hands up around that box!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

  
  Youre are genius!
  it was simply slow updating of their tracking system!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Youre are genius!
> it was simply slow updating of their tracking system!


 







  Really, it had everything to do with past experiences with USPS going back to May. And sadly, the elimination of thousands of jobs there. Simply beautiful, Rawrbington! What's the make and model of your amp, again?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Dubstep Girl will be thrilled._


----------



## Rawrbington

im about to put some NOS amprex bugle boy 6DJ8's in it that i had in my 3. (guess that doesn't make em NOS anymore)
  just to see how it sounds compared to the Philips ECC88
  so far its awesome.
  and basically exactly what i wanted!  that wa3's sound with bigger balls
   
  a litte better pic


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Ahh... tube rolling!
> ...


 
   








  I nearly drowned! The day began innocent enough. Was just off the Santa Monica Pier, hangin' out last month. Slowly, I found myself admiring jc9394's National Unions (6F8G). I seldom 'Roll" but decided to wade in the water to get a closer look... and got pulled down by an unsuspecting Rip-tide! Trust me , I was anything but _silent._
   
  Now safe, I have to deal with my new Power Conditioner being defective. My AC tripped the audible & visual alarms yet, these are not re-settable by the customer. Must exchange the unit... this makes no sense! Well, to me anyway. November could have ended very badly for me - buying tubes with no adapters; a defective Power Conditioner all in the same week. Looking back, I wouldn't change a thing, this is still a very exciting and rewarding hobby!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im about to put some NOS amprex bugle boy 6DJ8's in it that i had in my 3. (guess that doesn't make em NOS anymore)
> just to see how it sounds compared to the Philips ECC88
> so far its awesome.
> and basically exactly what i wanted!  that wa3's sound with bigger balls
> ...


 


  Yes, this profile is striking!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





airs said:


> The HD580 sound outstanding now!  I've had the phones years and thought I knew what they were capable of, but the WA6 has really opened my eyes.
> 
> My 6 just has stock tubes, but I am seriously thinking about getting the Sophia Princess and the 7N7/adapters from Jack.  Not that I'm unhappy with the sound in any way, I just wonder how much better it could get...


 

 Welcome 'airs' and congrats!


----------



## grokit

Nice amp *Rawrbington*, congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !
   
  Do you like your fa11 any better now? I don't know much about them but maybe they are tuned for portable devices? I have read a few positive impressions.
   
   
  I'm currently really enjoying Joe Jackson's _Night Music_, Stanley Jordan's _Cornocopia_, and Larry Carlton's _Fingerprints_ with my *Brimar 5Z4G *rectifier, combined with the the customary Treasure/7236 combo, with HD800s out of my WA22.
   
  Slowly ramping it up, in that order... I like Fingerprints a lot and will play that on my community public radio show tonight. It's the first Thursday of the month so it's my turn to host the jazz show!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I nearly drowned! The day began innocent enough. Was just off the Santa Monica Pier, hangin' out last month. Slowly, I found myself admiring jc9394's National Unions (6F8G). I seldom 'Roll" but decided to wade in the water to get a closer look... and got pulled down by an unsuspecting Rip-tide! Trust me , I was anything but _silent._


 
   
  Nice place to roost for the winter, that's a different type of tube rolling to be sure!


----------



## Rawrbington

the 2 is very similar to the 3.  you can absolutely see the comparisons as the 2 being the 3's big brother.
  the 2 does a little better job with the lower imp cans.
  but,
  well,
  the magic is def not there.
  my 770 32 ohms play better here, but, yeah its not close to the sound of the 990/600 ohm.  clearly and imp missmatch.  the output imp is just too high with the 2.  its got the juice just poor damping.
  however the 770 pro 80s are good.  they especially do nicely for some electronic and rap.  granted the only impedance charts i've ever seen for the pro 80's put the actual impedance closer to 130 than 80.
  Still not on par with the 600 ohm.  but for clarity and detail and w/e you want i never thought the pro 80s touched the 990s anywho.  But i did think the 770/32's did out of my SS.  take that how you will.
   
  as for the Fischer FA 011. i dunno what to say here.  i just don't like em.  but i just got them, and to be fair, i had been enjoying the 990 mated with the 3 for a month.  and well... not really fair comparison.  I'll try again later.
   
  the Shure 840.  nice can.  but its just always sounds "good" never great in my opinion.  its top end is a bit flat sounding to me.  but the midrange with these is always the star, and mixed with the big midrange of the WA2 it just seems to be missing the top and bottom.  but dispite the low impedance here the 2 pushes them fine however the 840s aren't really in need of an amp ever anyways. 
   
  lastly the 600 ohm 990s.
  if you like the 990/880/770 sound, i feel like the match between the wa2 and the 990 600 ohm is outstanding.  perhaps very close to as good as it gets.  the tube nature of the OTL wa2 and the 990/600 is a match made in heaven.  Clarity, detail, SoundStage.  The sibilence is dulled a hair, changing them from bright to just having nice top end sparkle.  the bottom end tightens up a hair and the little bit of bloat is gone.  and the mids really come out to play.  keeping the same lively incredibly fun sound, but taming the edges, almost bringing a little bit more fidelity to the sound i think.  these two really like each other a lot.  and when you put them on, well it really is magic.  it gives you that feeling that we all know.  the feeling where you get goosebumps, not so much from the song being badass, which def does happen of course, but goosebumps because the equipment is just flat out killing it. 
   
  a lot of what makes the WA2 sound so good to me(and really the 3 as well) is hard to describe.  it just sounds right.  not the most dynamic, not the deepest lows ever, but just something there that makes you forget that you missed that 15 hz note.  It does a very good job of finding that thing in music, that thing that drew us all to be music lovers in the first place(whatever it is), and gladly serving it up to you for your musical enjoyment.
   
  tldr, i like it


----------



## airs

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> hold on to you seat, it will be day and night.  I will not recommend going with Princess, when I had WA6, I much prefer Mullard GZ34 or EML 5U4G...


 


  Any thoughts on Cryoset's TAD GZ34 offering?  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=325&osCsid=e9a47e71822744027457ac3b1d660196


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I nearly drowned! The day began innocent enough. Was just off the Santa Monica Pier, hangin' out last month. Slowly, I found myself admiring jc9394's National Unions (6F8G). I seldom 'Roll" but decided to wade in the water to get a closer look... and got pulled down by an unsuspecting Rip-tide! Trust me , I was anything but _silent._
> 
> Now safe, I have to deal with my new Power Conditioner being defective. My AC tripped the audible & visual alarms yet, these are not re-settable by the customer. Must exchange the unit... this makes no sense! Well, to me anyway. November could have ended very badly for me - buying tubes with no adapters; a defective Power Conditioner all in the same week. Looking back, I wouldn't change a thing, this is still a very exciting and rewarding hobby!


 
   
   
   



  Don't worry, we will pull you out.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  As for the NU, it is very strange, only happens with the 596 while my other 6F8G are fine.  As Glenn has said, the NU are very finicky.  
   
  As most of you guys know now that I have a beta22 and been listening to it since I received it exclusively.  I finally powered back my WA22 last night and immediately remembers the first day I receive it back from Jack.  It is very nice change of warm and fun compare to a little clinical and extremely details of the beta22.  Thinking more about it during lunch time today and I'm glad I decided to get a beta22, to me it is a perfect partner for WA22.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





airs said:


> Any thoughts on Cryoset's TAD GZ34 offering?  http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=325&osCsid=e9a47e71822744027457ac3b1d660196


 

 I have heard that cryo'ing tubes lies somewhere between snake oil and actually weakening components of the tube. I don't know either way but it sounds peculiar to say the least.
   
  If you want a great value rectifier check this bad boy out - http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mullard-GZ32-%7B47%7D-5V4.html
   
  Which reminds me, I need to stockpile some more of these.


----------



## jc9394

Or this.
   
  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Brimar-5R4GY.html


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice amp *Rawrbington*, congrats
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   



  Your involvement on the music scene is fantastique!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Don't worry, we will pull you out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  





 You all already have! Next week, I'm set to have a Wicked Wednesday!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Tung-Sol 6SN7GT/VT-231 BGRP w/Oval Mica. I found Xcalibur255's words last week to be deliciously haunting...


----------



## jc9394

Try get the TS 6F8G version, it is as good except much more affordable.  They are usually around 50-60% of the 6SN7 version.  For some reason,  I really like the tube pings as they warm up.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





airs said:


> The HD580 sound outstanding now!  I've had the phones years and thought I knew what they were capable of, but the WA6 has really opened my eyes.
> 
> My 6 just has stock tubes, but I am seriously thinking about getting the Sophia Princess and the 7N7/adapters from Jack.  Not that I'm unhappy with the sound in any way, I just wonder how much better it could get...


 


  The 6 responds really well to better tubes.  The 7n7 is basically a 6SN7, and once I had gone 6SN7 I couldn't ever go back to the old tubes.  You can tune the character of the amp a lot with your rectifier choice too.  GZ33, GZ34 or 5AR4 will make clean and dynamic.  The 5R4GY and 274B will make it sounds more laid back and romantic.  The 5U4G is the jack of all trades and master of none in the middle.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try get the TS 6F8G version, it is as good except much more affordable.  They are usually around 50-60% of the 6SN7 version.  For some reason,  I really like the tube pings as they warm up.


 
  I always found it spooky when tubes ping like that.  At least on warmup, I can understand it better with cool down.  Some of the 6AS7 do it alarmingly loudly when new.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try get the TS 6F8G version, it is as good except much more affordable.  They are usually around 50-60% of the 6SN7 version.  For some reason,  I really like the tube pings as they warm up.


 







  Ok, now we've gone full-circle. That's what I started out looking for in the 6F8G glass (TS-BGRP) but none could be found. So, I went from looking at the TS Ribbed Plates Black Glass to spying your NU's. And then I couldn't find adapters. So, I'm back where my search began but with different packaging. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Whew!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I always found it spooky when tubes ping like that.  At least on warmup, I can understand it better with cool down.  Some of the 6AS7 do it alarmingly loudly when new.


 

 I'll have to hear this strange audible experience someday...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I always found it spooky when tubes ping like that.  At least on warmup, I can understand it better with cool down.  Some of the 6AS7 do it alarmingly loudly when new.


 


   
  I heard you when I first experience it but really start to like them after I'm more comfortabl with tubes.  It usually happens the first 10-15 minutes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ok, now we've gone full-circle. That's what I started out looking for in the 6F8G glass (TS-BGRP) but none could be found. So, I went from looking at the TS Ribbed Plates Black Glass to spying your NU's. And then I couldn't find adapters. So, I'm back where my search began but with different packaging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Just trying to save you moola bro.  I have both TS 6SN7 and 6F8G BGRP and I can't tell the difference, this should give you a reference on how good the NU are.  My only issues is the slightly static/hum with NU and 596, it is not audible during playback and low volumes with no music.  It happens when I turn the pot pass 10 on WA22, my normal listn level is between 7-8 (3-4 clicks).
   
  Check out this thread, Skylab explains it much better than me.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/500673/question-about-6f8g-tubes-in-wa5-le


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 6 responds really well to better tubes.  The 7n7 is basically a 6SN7, and once I had gone 6SN7 I couldn't ever go back to the old tubes.  You can tune the character of the amp a lot with your rectifier choice too.  GZ33, GZ34 or 5AR4 will make clean and dynamic.  The 5R4GY and 274B will make it sounds more laid back and romantic.  The 5U4G is the jack of all trades and master of none in the middle.


 

 x2
   
  For the price of Brimar and Mullard, you can't go wrong.  It will save you some money over the Princess.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just trying to save you moola bro.  I have both TS 6SN7 and 6F8G BGRP and I can't tell the difference, this should give you a reference on how good the NU are.  My only issues is the slightly static/hum with NU and 596, it is not audible during playback and low volumes with no music.  It happens when I turn the pot pass 10 on WA22, my normal listn level is between 7-8 (3-4 clicks).
> 
> Check out this thread, Skylab explains it much better than me.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/500673/question-about-6f8g-tubes-in-wa5-le


 


  Thanks, I'm with you. But with neither the bottles or 6F8G > 6DE7 adapters available... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Actually, I think this worked out better in the end. Because had I gone 6F8G series with adapters, I'd still face the issue of scarcity. One of the TS 6F8G BGRP go bad on me? I'd be right back at using premium 6SN7 series tubes until I found a matching spare or something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As it is now, I can ride down Sunset Blvd without a care in the world...


----------



## jc9394

I know exactly what you mean, that is why I'm keeping both TS version.  Once you set a high standard, there is no turning back.  Another reason I went SS as second amp and not to worry about expensive tubes, but it seems like no working well.  Still thinking that tube mountains from Decware for my 2 channels.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote:  





> For some reason,  I really like the tube pings as they warm up.


 

 I have a Cary CAD-280SA (V12i) amp with twelve EL-34 output tubes.  It mikes delightful pinging noises when they cool.
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 7n7 is basically a 6SN7, and once I had gone 6SN7 I couldn't ever go back to the old tubes.


 
   
  The 7N7 and 6SN7 are, IIRC, electrically identical but with a different pin-out.  7N7s are generally a lot cheaper, great for rolling.


----------



## Rawrbington

some of my tubes ping on warm up.  not quite sure which one it is though.
  i think its the 6DJ8 and ECC88.
  but it might be the tung sol 5998.
   
  btw as a tube novice are the ECC88 and E88CC the same thing?
  and why the switch?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> some of my tubes ping on warm up.  not quite sure which one it is though.
> i think its the 6DJ8 and ECC88.
> but it might be the tung sol 5998.
> 
> ...


 


  Nothing to really worry unless they continue to "ping" after warm up (several minutes).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Nothing to really worry unless they continue to "ping" after warm up (several minutes).


 


   
  Depends on tubes, some of my tubes if I ave not used for a long time (over a month) it pings up to 10 minutes.


----------



## Rawrbington

is the tung sol 5998 pretty much the best all round power tube for the 6080 socket?
   
  on the WA2 do you get more sound variation from rolling drive or rectifier tubes?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Depends on tubes, some of my tubes if I ave not used for a long time (over a month) it pings up to 10 minutes.


 


  Anything over a few minutes wouldn't be ideal. But a few odd quiet pings in the first 2-3 minutes during warm up is nothing to worry about. But 10 minutes is a bit too long...the tubes should be up to temperature by then.


----------



## john57

ECC88 is the 6DJ8 and ECC88 is the 6922 and both can be used. The 6922 is a industrial version and may have higher rating as compared to the 6DJ8.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> is the tung sol 5998 pretty much the best all round power tube for the 6080 socket?
> 
> on the WA2 do you get more sound variation from rolling drive or rectifier tubes?


 


   
  Both TS 7236 and 5998 are very good tubes for high impedances and low effectiency headphones.
   
  Drivers tubes gives you most changes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Both TS 7236 and 5998 are very good tubes for high impedances and low effectiency headphones.
> 
> Drivers tubes gives you most changes.


 

 Agreed.
   
  I'm just not sure whether I prefer the TS7236 or Sylvania 7236. Depends on my mood. How about you?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Anything over a few minutes wouldn't be ideal. But a few odd quiet pings in the first 2-3 minutes during warm up is nothing to worry about. But 10 minutes is a bit too long...the tubes should be up to temperature by then.


 


   
  Most of the pings happens during first 2-3 minutes, it will just give out an ping or two for the next 4-7 minutes and it will complete silent after that.  I asked Jack, he said it is be as long as it is complete silen after 10 minutes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Most of the pings happens during first 2-3 minutes, it will just give out an ping or two for the next 4-7 minutes and it will complete silent after that. * I asked Jack, he said it is be as long as it is complete silen after 10 minutes.*


 


  Well then...there you go.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm just not sure whether I prefer the TS7236 or Sylvania 7236. Depends on my mood. How about you?


 


   
  With LCD-2 (only headphone I use the 7236 and 5998), once I received the TS, the Sylvania never sees any light.  To me, it is a little more controlled bass, kind of like beta22 in this department.  It also have a slight, very slight advantage on details over the Sylvania.


----------



## jc9394

Off topic, MH, are you in GTA?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> With LCD-2 (only headphone I use the 7236 and 5998), once I received the TS, the Sylvania never sees any light.  To me, it is a little more controlled bass, kind of like beta22 in this department.  It also have a slight, very slight advantage on details over the Sylvania.


 

 Funny, I prefer the TS7236s (and TS5998s) with my HD800s and T1s, but with my (now sold) LCD-2s and current LCD-3s, I seem to like the Sylvania 7236s.


----------



## john57

I wanted to add that I used to have some RCA 6AS7 tubes that were pinging loudly even after one hour. I switched tubes but if the tube just made a soft ping for no longer than 15 mins I would have kept it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny, I prefer the TS7236s (and TS5998s) with my HD800s and T1s, but with my (now sold) LCD-2s and current LCD-3s, I seem to like the Sylvania 7236s.


 


   
  I found them too much gain with HD800 and perfectly fine with LCD-2, I guess the pass more currents to LCD-2.  For HD800, there is no match for GEC 6AS7G, the air, details, and soundstage.  I even prefer the GEC 6080 over the 7236 and 5998.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I wanted to add that I used to have some RCA 6AS7 tubes that were pinging loudly even after one hour. I switched tubes but if the tube just made a soft ping for no longer than 15 mins I would have kept it.


 


   
  6AS7 are notorious on pings, luckily the GEC are complete after 5 minutes.


----------



## cifani090

Man, when the hell is the Woo hp amp and mono blocks going to fall from the sky and land on my desk? I really, really need one now!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny, I prefer the TS7236s (and TS5998s) with my HD800s and T1s, but with my (now sold) LCD-2s and current LCD-3s, I seem to like the Sylvania 7236s.


 


   
  How do you like the LCD-3?  I decided to skip this until the next release.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How do you like the LCD-3?  I decided to skip this until the next release.


 


  Seeing that you already own the LCD-2, I think this might be appropriate:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/a/comparisons-of-the-lcd-3-and-the-lcd-2-rev-2


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Man, when the hell is the Woo hp amp and mono blocks going to fall from the sky and land on my desk? I really, really need one now!


 


   
  Just need to man up and order one.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  When I ordered my maxed WA6 couple years ago, I also had a heart attack.  Wondering what am I doing spending so much on a headphone amp?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just need to man up and order one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 First i need some _*good*_ headphones, away from Denon or Grado, but towards Audeze, Stax, and Ultrasone. I would have a heart attack spending that money on an amp, especially new, rather go used, without having good headphones for it. I could buy one used for a few hundred dollars, but i have no headphones


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Seeing that you already own the LCD-2, I think this might be appropriate:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/comparisons-of-the-lcd-3-and-the-lcd-2-rev-2


 


   
  You are not helping here.  I have been think ever since Skylab review that am I made a mistake not getting one.  If I did not recently brought a beta22, my money will find a way yo LCD-3.  I did have a huge self control when Moon Audio offered 11% off couple weeks ago.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> First i need some _*good*_ headphones, away from Denon or Grado, but towards Audeze, Stax, and Ultrasone. I would have a heart attack spending that money on an amp, especially new, rather go used, without having good headphones for it. I could buy one used for a few hundred dollars, but i have no headphones


 


  I only had a HD-600 when I ordered the WA6 and no DAC, just a LOD to RCA from my iPhone.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You are not helping here.  I have been think ever since Skylab review that am I made a mistake not getting one.  If I did not recently brought a beta22, my money will find a way yo LCD-3.  I did have a huge self control when Moon Audio offered 11% off couple weeks ago.


 

 That is great self control. You've certainly got me beat in that category.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, they sound outstanding on my WA22 and I bet they'll also sound fantastic on your B22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> That is great self control. You've certainly got me beat in that category.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  I'm sure it will be as LCD-2 r2 sounds crazy good out of beta22 but I have been listening with WA22 last couple days.  It have better details (much better) and soundstage, totally out of what I expected. (my WA22 is fully modded with BG and Vcaps). I guess the additional power really helps.


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA2 is a go-between tonight--doing its job as a preamp. Nice.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I only had a HD-600 when I ordered the WA6 and no DAC, just a LOD to RCA from my iPhone.


 

 I couldn't do that, id be doing the WA6 a disservice. I had the HD555's and i dont plan on going back...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> is the tung sol 5998 pretty much the best all round power tube for the 6080 socket?


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Both TS 7236 and 5998 are very good tubes for high impedances and low effectiency headphones.


 
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I'm just not sure whether I prefer the TS7236 or Sylvania 7236. Depends on my mood. How about you?


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> With LCD-2 (only headphone I use the 7236 and 5998), once I received the TS, the Sylvania never sees any light.  To me, it is a little more controlled bass, kind of like beta22 in this department.  It also have a slight, very slight advantage on details over the Sylvania.


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I found them too much gain with HD800 and perfectly fine with LCD-2, I guess the pass more currents to LCD-2.  For HD800, there is no match for GEC 6AS7G, the air, details, and soundstage.  I even prefer the GEC 6080 over the 7236 and 5998.


 
   
   
  I'm not sure about with the WA2, but with the WA22 I prefer the Sylvania 7236 with the Shuggie Treasures. I will have to try the TS 7236 again though. I have just been rolling rectifiers for changes in sound, that seems to satisfy me lately. I do have some nice NOS driver tubes though, I just haven't been using them as I have been liking the Treasures. I know that many prefer the 6080 to the higher powered tubes with more efficient headphones, I would like to try that 6A7SG sometime.
   
  For myself, the HD800 and LCD-2 seem pretty similar as far as power requirements with the tubes that I am using, perhaps that is more of a transformer difference with the WA22 compared to the WA2. But aren't you speaking of a WA22 as well *jc*?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I couldn't do that, id be doing the WA6 a disservice. I had the HD555's and i dont plan on going back...


 


   
  It will gives you more reason to upgrade you headphone. 
   
  For me, HD600>HF2>W5000>HD800 and LCD-2.  
   
  Oh, WA6/6SE are xtremely well with IEMs


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm not sure about with the WA2, but with the *WA22 I prefer the Sylvania 7236 with the Shuggie Treasures.* I will have to try the TS 7236 again though. I have just been rolling rectifiers for changes in sound, that seems to satisfy me lately. I do have some nice NOS driver tubes though, I just never use them anymore as I have been liking the Treasures. I know that many prefer the 6080 to the higher powered tubes with more efficient headphones, I would like to try that 6A7SG sometime.
> 
> For myself, the HD800 and LCD-2 seem pretty similar as far as power requirements with the tubes that I am using, perhaps that is more of a transformer difference with the WA22 compared to the WA2. But aren't you speaking of a WA22 as well *jc*?


 
   


 Vince, I've pretty much settled on that tube combination too as it's my favourite so far with my Audeze headphones (and pretty darn good with my HD800s and T1s).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


 
   



   
  For some reason, I can't quote you.  Anyhow, yes, I'm talking WA22.  I have not use the Treasure for a long time, can't comment on TS or Sylvania pair with Treasure.  I have been using NU  6F8G with USAF 596 lately.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It will gives you more reason to upgrade you headphone.
> 
> For me, HD600>HF2>W5000>HD800 and LCD-2.
> 
> Oh, WA6/6SE are xtremely well with IEMs


 

 Wow, I'm surprised how far down the HD800 and LCD-2 are on your Personal Pecking Order


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It will gives you more reason to upgrade you headphone.
> 
> For me, HD600>HF2>W5000>HD800 and LCD-2.
> 
> Oh, WA6/6SE are xtremely well with IEMs


 

 Wouldn't the WA6 be overkill for my SE535's?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Wow, I'm surprised how far down the HD800 and LCD-2 are on your Personal Pecking Order


 


   
  No, just an upgrade path.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Wouldn't the WA6 be overkill for my SE535's?


 


   
  Not to me, I used t use SE530 and UM3x with WA6.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No, just an upgrade path.


 
   
  Aha! Mine was quite similar


----------



## jc9394

>


 


   


  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


>


 
   


 Vince, I've pretty much settled on that tube combination too as it's my favourite so far with my Audeze headphones (and pretty darn good with my HD800s and T1s).
   


   
  Funny, I think we are the only three that loves the Treasure.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not to me, I used t use SE530 and UM3x with WA6.


 

 I'll look into it than.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Funny, I think we are the only three that loves the Treasure.


 
   

   
   
  They are amongst the most "neutral" driver tube I've heard in my WA22...very nice, clean and extended (both ways). But the price is a bit high IMO.


----------



## Icenine2

When I had my WA22 I treasured my Treasures!  Cool Box they came in too!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For some reason, I can't quote you.  Anyhow, yes, I'm talking WA22.  I have not use the Treasure for a long time, can't comment on TS or Sylvania pair with Treasure.  I have been using NU  6F8G with USAF 596 lately.


 

  
  Formatting ~
   
  Try placing your cursor to the left of the first letter in the first line. Then 'Backspace' until that line is inside the box. This works for me when I want to quote someone and their text lies outside the box. Hope this helps! 
   
  Take your qoute above for example - it was below the quote box, so I simply 'Backspaced' the entry into the box.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not to me, I used t use SE530 and UM3x with WA6.


 


  Hmmm, never thought to try my Shure EC3's/custom ear molds with my WA6SE. May have to do that after midnight.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You are not helping here.  I have been think ever since Skylab review that am I made a mistake not getting one.  If I did not recently brought a beta22, my money will find a way yo LCD-3.  I did have a huge self control when Moon Audio offered 11% off couple weeks ago.


 

 That's a nice looking B22...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> is the tung sol 5998 pretty much the best all round power tube for the 6080 socket?
> 
> on the WA2 do you get more sound variation from rolling drive or rectifier tubes?


 


   
  In my opinion, yes, but I myself have not heard the GEC made tubes yet (too rare and expensive now).  What strikes me about the 5998 is how transparent and uncolored it is without sounding boring or flat.  At least that is how it sounds in my new amp, which is OTL like the WA2 so I would imagine the tubes behave similarly.
   
  Can't comment on the second question.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> In my opinion, yes, but I myself have not heard the GEC made tubes yet (too rare and expensive now).  What strikes me about the 5998 is how transparent and uncolored it is without sounding boring or flat.  At least that is how it sounds in my new amp, which is OTL like the WA2 so I would imagine the tubes behave similarly.
> 
> Can't comment on the second question.


 


  Who built your OTL amp? Does it sound dreamy? And suitable for a pitch-perfect Ella Fitzgerald in her prime, followed by Sarah Vaughn, Dinah Washington and Billie Holiday? Pix to come?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm, never thought to try my Shure EC3's/custom ear molds with my WA6SE. May have to do that after midnight.


 


  Did you tried it out?  Make sure to use a low gain tubes or it will hum like crazy.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

Fellow Woo Owners; I've recently needed to move my _WA6-SE_ and while doing so I noticed that my PSU unit has something loose inside its chassis.  If I rotate it a little to the side, you can hear what sounds like a screw rolling around on the bottom.  Should I be worried about this? The four screws holding on the upper half of the unit are still there, so I know it isn't one of them. Should I attempt to disassemble the unit myself, leave it, or contact Jack? I don't really want to be without my amp for the next month, but obviously I must if something is broken...
   
  Also, I think the amp has less bass; something I noticed in the amp's new location.  I don't know if its related though, as it is fairly new, so the tubes could have reached the next level of burn in. (I'm at around 100-150 hours).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> Fellow Woo Owners; I've recently needed to move my _WA6-SE_ and while doing so I noticed that my PSU unit has something loose inside its chassis.  If I rotate it a little to the side, you can hear what sounds like a screw rolling around on the bottom.  Should I be worried about this? The four screws holding on the upper half of the unit are still there, so I know it isn't one of them. Should I attempt to disassemble the unit myself, leave it, or contact Jack? I don't really want to be without my amp for the next month, but obviously I must if something is broken...
> 
> Also, I think the amp has less bass; something I noticed in the amp's new location.  I don't know if its related though, as it is fairly new, so the tubes could have reached the next level of burn in. (I'm at around 100-150 hours).


 


  can you open the bottom panel to see if there is a loose screw?  I will not recommend to power it back on until you know where the noise from, i shorted my WA22 when I noticed the screw loose noise and ignore it.


----------



## Pudu

Man, you don't look at this thread for a day or two and it marches on a ridiculous number of pages. 






rawrbington said:


> ...lastly the 600 ohm 990s.
> if you like the 990/880/770 sound, i feel like the match between the wa2 and the 990 600 ohm is outstanding.  perhaps very close to as good as it gets.  the tube nature of the OTL wa2 and the 990/600 is a match made in heaven.  Clarity, detail, SoundStage.  The sibilence is dulled a hair, changing them from bright to just having nice top end sparkle.  the bottom end tightens up a hair and the little bit of bloat is gone.  and the mids really come out to play.  keeping the same lively incredibly fun sound, but taming the edges, almost bringing a little bit more fidelity to the sound i think.  these two really like each other a lot.  and when you put them on, well it really is magic.  it gives you that feeling that we all know.  the feeling where you get goosebumps, not so much from the song being badass, which def does happen of course, but goosebumps because the equipment is just flat out killing it.
> 
> a lot of what makes the WA2 sound so good to me(and really the 3 as well) is hard to describe.  it just sounds right.  not the most dynamic, not the deepest lows ever, but just something there that makes you forget that you missed that 15 hz note.  It does a very good job of finding that thing in music, that thing that drew us all to be music lovers in the first place(whatever it is), and gladly serving it up to you for your musical enjoyment.
> ...




Nice looking amp you have there! Reading your description makes me relive the first few evenings with my WA2. Love it! My WA2 - Beyer combo lets me forget about the gear and just get lost in the music - which is the best recommendation I can give for any piece of kit. You said it well.

Congrats on the amp.


----------



## langolf

Hi everybody. I'm thinking of getting woo audio 2. Is there a big difference between woo audio 3? Does it give flat response to dt 990 600ohm? I'm using them for music production and don't want them to be bright.
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## jc9394

Unless you are going to upgrade your DT990 down the road, stick with WA3 or even WA6.


----------



## Pudu

gouldphoto said:


> Thanks, really looking forward to listening to this amp in a couple weeks.
> 
> As for motorsports. I am the track photographer for Atlanta Dragway, do some shooting at Road Atlanta for a friends race team. There is no such thing as too much horsepower in a car as long as it can stop.
> 
> ...




Very nice pics in there. Some of the Atlantic provinces photos are particularly vibrant. And I love the trainers negotiating the undulations of RA.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Unless you are going to upgrade your DT990 down the road, stick with WA3 or even WA6.


 

 I agree with this. With the DT990s, the upgrade from WA3 to WA2 will be noticeable but subtle. If you are thinking T1/HD800 someday, then the WA2 would be a good accompaniment.
   
  I personally didn't love the DT990s with the WA6 -- a bit too peaky in the treble and shallow in the middle -- but that's just me.


----------



## danska

Assuming Fedex shows up tomorrow, I'll be a new owner of a MAXXED WA6 w/Sophia rectifier. After being pretty happy with a LD MKIII for the most of the year, I started wondering what the next level of amplification could do for my HD650s. I plan on getting a pair of T1s or HD800s sometime soon also. I'll post pics after I turn her on tomorrow!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> Assuming Fedex shows up tomorrow, I'll be a new owner of a MAXXED WA6 w/Sophia rectifier. After being pretty happy with a LD MKIII for the most of the year, I started wondering what the next level of amplification could do for my HD650s. I plan on getting a pair of T1s or HD800s sometime soon also. I'll post pics after I turn her on tomorrow!


 


  Congrats and welcome to the Woo family, did you get it used?  The maxxed version is not longer available.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Who built your OTL amp? Does it sound dreamy? And suitable for a pitch-perfect Ella Fitzgerald in her prime, followed by Sarah Vaughn, Dinah Washington and Billie Holiday? Pix to come?


 


  The amp is a custom build from Glenn.  Single 6SN7 driver stage, 6AS7 output tubes and either a 3DG4 or a 5AU4/5V3 rectifier.  The transformer is tapped to operate both 3 and 5 volt rectifier tubes.  I've been holding off on saying anything about it because this *is* the Woo Audio thread and it didn't seen very appropriate.
   
  It is likely I'll be selling my WA6 in the future, because Glenn's amp is the better sounding one.  As for my original WA22 plans, those are completely up in the air but at the very least it has been pushed back.  I'm still drawn to the beautiful chassis and build quality of the Woos, but buying a $2K amp and finding it sounds no better than what I have would be a very tough pill to swallow indeed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did you tried it out?  Make sure to use a low gain tubes or it will hum like crazy.


 

 Not yet. Will likely play with the rig tonight; tomorrow. I don't have any big expectations as I have always found those Shures to be Bass light, even with a perfect seal from custom ear molds. But curiosity and adventure play well in this hobby so....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The amp is a custom build from Glenn.  Single 6SN7 driver stage, 6AS7 output tubes and either a 3DG4 or a 5AU4/5V3 rectifier.  The transformer is tapped to operate both 3 and 5 volt rectifier tubes.  I've been holding off on saying anything about it because this *is* the Woo Audio thread and it didn't seen very appropriate.
> 
> It is likely I'll be selling my WA6 in the future, because Glenn's amp is the better sounding one.  As for my original WA22 plans, those are completely up in the air but at the very least it has been pushed back.  I'm still drawn to the beautiful chassis and build quality of the Woos, but buying a $2K amp and finding it sounds no better than what I have would be a very tough pill to swallow indeed.


 

 Thanks for 'neaking in a reply. I understand your discretion about thread and subject matter. But, a little latitude should be expected and encouraged. I still have thoughts of Glenn either building me an amp in the future or making my existing Woo wicked.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Assuming Fedex shows up tomorrow, I'll be a new owner of a MAXXED WA6 w/Sophia rectifier. After being pretty happy with a LD MKIII for the most of the year, I started wondering what the next level of amplification could do for my HD650s. I plan on getting a pair of T1s or HD800s sometime soon also. I'll post pics after I turn her on tomorrow!


 


  Congrats danska! You have a chance tomorrow to see what your Woo Weekend holds as promise.




   
  In the mean time, I've the perfect thread for you to visit:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582597/explain-your-avatar/105





  
   
  Upon seeing your Avatar, I guess the owner really didn't have a choice but to sell it to you!


----------



## danska

Haha yeah I'm a peaceful guy tho! Thats my other hobby so to speak! I'll give some details on the other thread, people might think I'm a bit different (or crazy) 
   
  Thanks for the warm welcomes, I did buy the WA6 used (Silver). It'll match up with all my other silver colored gear. Looking forward to trying it over the back-up LP12 I have running right now. Can't wait to hear it when my Ortofon Jubilee comes back from a re-tip. I'm mainly a vinyl guy so I have a plethora of choices when it comes to what to debut it with music-wise. I'm running a tubed output phono stage into a tube integrated that has a fixed line out, so I will see what the differences are coming straight into the Woo from the phono stage vs the amp. In the end this will go into my bedroom set-up where I have a good stash of FLAC and 24/96 files on my computer. The next step in my audio world is to find the DAC to suit my needs.
   
  I'll post some pictures of it tomorrow, hopefully fedex starts early!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Haha yeah I'm a peaceful guy tho! Thats my other hobby so to speak! I'll give some details on the other thread, people might think I'm a bit different (or crazy)
> 
> Thanks for the warm welcomes, I did buy the WA6 used (Silver). It'll match up with all my other silver colored gear. Looking forward to trying it over the back-up LP12 I have running right now. Can't wait to hear it when my Ortofon Jubilee comes back from a re-tip. I'm mainly a vinyl guy so I have a plethora of choices when it comes to what to debut it with music-wise. I'm running a tubed output phono stage into a tube integrated that has a fixed line out, so I will see what the differences are coming straight into the Woo from the phono stage vs the amp. In the end this will go into my bedroom set-up where I have a good stash of FLAC and 24/96 files on my computer. The next step in my audio world is to find the DAC to suit my needs.
> 
> I'll post some pictures of it tomorrow, hopefully fedex starts early!!!


 

 Great! You're pretty much set, looking forward to some weekend photographs. While you certainly have thousands of choices of tracks to choose from, I'm always curious about the very first track one chooses to hear through their Woo. Some will do it without much thought. Others will be meticulous in their selection... I'm in this group. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For my _WA 6 Special Edition, _I selected "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr. (Dear Friends - 1993) Jazz.
   
  I would like see more members from the thread post in the "Explain-your-avatar" thread. Some here have some very interesting and/or unusual presentations and to learn more would be a delight.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Is anybody planning on getting these when they are out? I'd like to know how the sound....


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Is anybody planning on getting these when they are out? I'd like to know how the sound....


 

 More to the point I'd like to know how delicious the expresso is from those gems.


----------



## langolf

Guys, what do you think of Beyerdynamic - A1 against Woo Audio 2 or 3 for dt 990 600ohm? What's better?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> More to the point I'd like to know how delicious the expresso is from those gems.


 

  
  I can't help but wonder if a small part of the (appliance) design is functional or is this package purely a design aesthetic... and what could have possibly served as an inspiration for the design.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> More to the point I'd like to know how delicious the expresso is from those gems.


 


  I'm sure it will not be a yummy as this.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm sure it will not be a yummy as this.


 


  Sometimes, simple elegance trumps sophistication in design. Two such designs are my WA6SE and my Gaiwans. The latter, from The Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), is one of the greatest and brilliantly conceived designs of all-time.


----------



## WarriorAnt

jc9394 said:


> I'm sure it will not be a yummy as this.


 
  Does this have balanced outs or SE outs?


----------



## jc9394

SilentOne, tea drinker.  How can I forget, I prefer using purple sand tea set when drinking tea.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Does this have balanced outs or SE outs?


 


   
  6 boards, separate dedicated SE and balanced amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> SilentOne, tea drinker.  How can I forget, I prefer using purple sand tea set when drinking tea.


 


  I've come to learn from your audio selections past and present that you have style. Your tea preferences merely confirms as much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope a few of us can meet with you for a bite to eat and drinks next time you're San Francisco bound.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've come to learn from your audio selections past and present that you have style. Your tea preferences merely confirms as much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  When I'm in San Fran, tea is out.  Sake and more sake.  I'm planning for May 2012 during the geek conference or March if I can swing it.
   
  When it comes to tea, I'm very picky.  At times when I go dim sum, I bring my own pots and tea, at the very least my own tea.


----------



## Pudu

jc9394 said:


> I'm sure it will not be a yummy as this.




No, I'm convinced WA is onto something here. Those behemoths are large enough to fit at least a couple of decent sized amps as well as a very good espresso machine - which would combine two passions in life. It's brilliant really, hats off to J Woo for thinking of it. 

I wonder if the power supply has an integrated bean roaster...


----------



## danska

I have the a Breville 800 that is essentially the same minus the grinder. Its a fantastic little unit. Maybe I can get creative and take some shots of my Woo next to it!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've come to learn from your audio selections past and present that you have style. Your tea preferences merely confirms as much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL, tea... stop talking and lets talk about em Shure's into your Woo


----------



## Silent One

But really, has anyone given thought to the design playing a role in cooling or some other aspect of the amp's operation; performance? Sometimes, engineering cleverly hides in a components design. I know Jack reads this thread for time to time, perhaps he'll weigh-in over the weekend.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> LOL, tea... stop talking and lets talk about em Shure's into your Woo


 


   
  I don't have the Shure anymore but I do love the JH13 with both 22, it is surprising how well it scales and revels with better amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> LOL, tea... stop talking and lets talk about em Shure's into your Woo


 


  Midnight. I'm still fixin' dinner at this writing... (grilled shrimp; veggies; rice). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Will start warming up the Woo @ 2300 hours.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I don't have the Shure anymore but I do love the JH13 with both 22, it is surprising how well it scales and revels with better amp.


 


  I long to hear a pair of JH13 & JH16's in my 6 SE!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I long to hear a pair of JH13 & JH16's in my 6 SE!


 


   
  If give choice on one headphone, it will be the JH13.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But really, has anyone given thought to the design playing a role in cooling or some other aspect of the amp's operation; performance? Sometimes, engineering cleverly hides in a components design. I know Jack reads this thread for time to time, perhaps he'll weigh-in over the weekend.


 


  Well I hope Jack doesn't take offense to my poking fun of the mono blocks.   I mean for 10K that's about as involved with them as I'll ever get.   That kind of coin is definitely the beginning of speaker rig territory for me and I can't ever imagine spending that kind of money on a headphone amp. But that's coming from a guy who doesn't have all that much respect for headphone reproduction when compared to speaker rigs so... 
   
  Still though I think they look like wonderful Expresso machines!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I don't have the Shure anymore but I do love the JH13 with both 22, it is surprising how well it scales and revels with better amp.


 

 Interesting... IMO, i may be wrong, but i feel this is quite an amp for IEM's. It's purpose if more for full sized headphones. But at least ive go room for growth
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Midnight. I'm still fixin' dinner at this writing... (grilled shrimp; veggies; rice).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Roger that.


----------



## Clayton SF

I think that the new Woo design is wonderful. It reminds me of the architectural achievements happening all over Europe. When I first saw the WA234, I thought of the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain and buildings in Amsterdam, The Netherlands. I is wonderfully progressive and edgy--which can only be matched by its sonic achievements as well.
  Great work. Great strides.
   
  Even Picasso evoked the -- "What gut reaction."


----------



## shipsupt

No chance for February so you could make the Bay Area meet?  I can bring the sake!
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> When I'm in San Fran, tea is out.  Sake and more sake.  I'm planning for May 2012 during the geek conference or March if I can swing it.
> 
> When it comes to tea, I'm very picky.  At times when I go dim sum, I bring my own pots and tea, at the very least my own tea.


----------



## Rawrbington

Jacks designs remind me of Apples designs.  the aesthetics are top notch.  and the price tag is a smidge higher but you know what you're paying for.  not detail overlooked, and beautiful lines.
   
  wow i think i just paid apple a complement for the first time ever.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> can you open the bottom panel to see if there is a loose screw?  I will not recommend to power it back on until you know where the noise from, i shorted my WA22 when I noticed the screw loose noise and ignore it.


 


  I have tried this and discovered a loose nut.  I could not see anything missing a nut, so I have no idea what to do with it.  Is there something in between the outer case and inner metal plate it could have come from?  I'm trying to disassemble as little as possible at a time in hopes I will not screw anything up.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If give choice on one headphone, it will be the JH13.


 


  I haven't heard either one... I am curious. On paper, they sound great conceptually.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Jacks designs remind me of Apples designs.  the aesthetics are top notch.  and the price tag is a smidge higher but you know what you're paying for.  not detail overlooked, and beautiful lines.
> 
> *wow i think i just paid apple a complement for the first time ever.*


 

 What an indictment!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> I have tried this and discovered a loose nut.  I could not see anything missing a nut, so I have no idea what to do with it.  Is there something in between the outer case and inner metal plate it could have come from?  I'm trying to disassemble as little as possible at a time in hopes I will not screw anything up.


 


  This isn't good and could end badly! If you still cannot find it beyond minor dis-assembly, please drop Jack on a note on the website. He'll likely respond to your urgent request for help Saturday via Twitter.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> No chance for February so you could make the Bay Area meet?  I can bring the sake!


 

 It's healthy for us to get out and meet occasionally.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I think that the new Woo design is wonderful. It reminds me of the architectural achievements happening all over Europe. When I first saw the WA234, I thought of the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain and buildings in Amsterdam, The Netherlands. I is wonderfully progressive and edgy--which can only be matched by its sonic achievements as well.
> Great work. Great strides.
> 
> Even Picasso evoked the -- "What gut reaction."


 


  Well stated. I'm still left wondering if we've overlooked any engineering achievements cleverly hidden inside the design. Unless Jack and/or his brother were inspired from recent travel, or woke up in the middle of the night inspired by a dream, there's got to be a rhyme & reason behind the design. Maybe not, but I would like to know from an appreciation perspective.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Interesting... IMO, i may be wrong, but i feel this is quite an amp for IEM's. It's purpose if more for full sized headphones. But at least ive go room for growth
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Dinner  Dessert  Dishes  Done. As I'm about to warm up the Woo in 20 min, I'd be kickin' myself if I found out that the pairing sounds good yet, the IEM's were sitting in the drawer all this time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do remember initially finding out the first week that it did not, but I had stock driver tubes and Miss Sophia doing duty. Maybe my '49 Raytheon 6SN7WGT's & USAF-596 will be up to the task.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well I hope Jack doesn't take offense to my poking fun of the mono blocks.   I mean for 10K that's about as involved with them as I'll ever get.   That kind of coin is definitely the beginning of speaker rig territory for me and *I can't ever imagine spending that kind of money on a headphone amp.* But that's coming from a guy who doesn't have all that much respect for headphone reproduction when compared to speaker rigs so...
> 
> Still though I think they look like wonderful Expresso machines!


 

 Don't forget it's not just a headphone amp, it's also a speaker amp:
   
  "If you want to share the music with friends thru speakers, you then swap out the headphone OSK [Output Switching Key] and insert the speaker OSK."
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Midnight. I'm still fixin' dinner at this writing... (grilled shrimp; veggies; rice).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Post a pic in the cooking thread sometime!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Don't forget it's not just a headphone amp, it's also a speaker amp:
> 
> "If you want to share the music with friends thru speakers, you then swap out the headphone OSK [Output Switching Key] and insert the speaker OSK."
> 
> ...


 


  You got it! Also stop by the "explain-your-avatar" thread...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You got it! Also stop by the "explain-your-avatar" thread...


 

   
  I've been there, you must have missed it!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You got it! Also stop by the "explain-your-avatar" thread...


 

   
  I've been there, you must have missed it


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I've been there, you must have missed it


 


  Just discovered the thread a couple of days ago. Will have to wade through the length of the thread later this afternoon during college football.


----------



## jc9394

Holiday offer...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  New WA22 owners only. I'm giving a set of stock tubes that I never used.  All I'm asking is you pay shipping USPS priority and pass this set along free if you upgrade the stock tubes and no longer need this as backup.
   
  I think they are...
  philips 6980
  ge 6sn7gtb
  some 5u4g that I never seen or heard before.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> While you certainly have thousands of choices of tracks to choose from, I'm always curious about the very first track one chooses to hear through their Woo. Some will do it without much thought. Others will be meticulous in their selection... I'm in this group.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 sorry for dragging this one back out but this thread moves way too fast for timely responses 
   
  this is an interesting question to me as well.  one i asked myself when i first got my 6SE hooked up but with the excitement running high i didn't give it too much thought and headed straight for "wind and rain" -crooked still.  this drove me to garcia's cover of the same tune followed by the old standby: dark side of the moon [mfsl gold disc].


----------



## danska

This has been the longest morning in recent times for me. I really wish my Woo came USPS because they are here by 10:30. I have to sign for it so I haven't left the house and am working at a wine tasting this evening, so my initial listening time is really being cut into! I feel like a bit of teenager again


----------



## Wapiti

I've done the same. 
   
  I like taking my time when I have a new toy like this.  It's nice not to rush.  I hope the delivery is soon enough before needing to leave to at least settle in with it a bit.


----------



## danska

Here she is, just getting warmed up. I'll be taking some more pictures over the next day or two when I get a chance to listen for a while.
   
  SilentOne: I played Diana Krall's "I love being here with you" from her Live In Paris LP (45) for a intro track. By the third song on that side, things were really opening up. My only comments so far are that the highs seem a bit harsh, I'm using the Sylvania driver tubes pictured.


----------



## Rawrbington

man that sophia looks awesome!
   
  im wondering about a pair of hifimans to match with my WA2 but the low impedance gives me reason for pause.
  anybody ever tried them on the 2?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Holiday offer...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 jc9394, you are truly a momentum builder. Sometimes, new members (or members who never considered) just need to be introduced to that one additional piece to open things up to possibilities. More members like this, please...


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Holiday offer...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Very Kind.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> sorry for dragging this one back out but this thread moves way too fast for timely responses
> 
> this is an interesting question to me as well.  one i asked myself when i first got my 6SE hooked up but with the excitement running high i didn't give it too much thought and headed straight for "wind and rain" -crooked still.  this drove me to garcia's cover of the same tune followed by the old standby: dark side of the moon [mfsl gold disc].


 


  If you think this thread is fast moving right now, _you ain't seen nuthin' yet. _Earlier this year when Tube Talk heated up between WA22 owners, this thread left nothing standing in its wake on Head-Fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  To have missed two days was two too many! Even those in the discussion were frustrated in trying to follow up. This kind of participation is good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had nothing to contribute, so I sat out with fascination on the side line.
   
  Since music is an emotional experience, good to see that you went with your instincts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Very Kind.


 

 I have already benefited from jc9394's kindness, _and it wasn't even holiday_... _what a head-fi'er!_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Additionally, I have benefited from a special group of Bay Siders (San Francisco - Oakland Bay Area), Clayton SF; Shipsupt & mikemalter, and their kindness has made me a better and more open head-fi'er.
   
  With neighbors like this, I might wanna spend more time up here.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Here she is, just getting warmed up. I'll be taking some more pictures over the next day or two when I get a chance to listen for a while.
> 
> SilentOne: I played Diana Krall's "I love being here with you" from her Live In Paris LP (45) for a intro track. By the third song on that side, things were really opening up. My only comments so far are that the highs seem a bit harsh, I'm using the Sylvania driver tubes pictured.


 


  "Live in Paris" (45 LP), you were not messing around!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It should be etched in your mind for quite some time (forever?). I really like the first shot of the Woo stretched out on the floor in front of the gear. Strangely, it reminds me of the Sphinx from the backside.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> jc9394, you are truly a momentum builder. Sometimes, new members (or members who never considered) just need to be introduced to that one additional piece to open things up to possibilities. More members like this, please...


 


   
  You missed the boat bud, I gave out brunch of WA6 tubes long time ago.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You missed the boat bud, I gave out brunch of WA6 tubes long time ago.


 

 That's because I was sitting in a different Harbor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I made the move to 6SN7 series tubes during the first few hundred hours of burn-in.


----------



## Silent One

_WA 6 Special Edition_, Shure E3c pairing ~
   
  Finally unearthed the IEM's two hours past Midnight. And though I played the previous three tracks in their entirety, I couldn't make it through track four. Initially, I found myself fighting a hum and the presentation's brightness. jc9394 recommended using low gain tubes, and I believe my Ray's fill the bill there. The hum was not loud, but with the isolation custom ear molds provide, it's more noticeable than it would be with buds.
   
  I admit to being use to the sound of my glorious D7000's. But man, it was bright! Just when my brain started to settle in it was too late... _"Eject! eject! eject!" _I did find detail and clarity returned from the Woo - did not blink or falter when _cranked_; decent soundstage. I am convinced that a better IEM would fair better, and perhaps, a different amp with this IEM.
   
  One of the things I never could get with is the Bass (or lack there of) from the Shure's (this model). Very pedestrian, almost like an after thought. I'm not speaking to Bass notes where there should be none. Nor in yo' face! And this complaint isn't limit to Bass as the same could be said for treble. But when something isn't playing at the right level in the presentation then other weaknesses are exposed.
   
  Not always, but sometimes when Bass is amiss in the presentation, percussion can sound a bit off (think Slam!). Some notes support or compliment other parts of the mix in a recording (this is my view). Also, some notes can suffer alone while others happily play along in the music. But usually, I find other parts of the mix suffering from the misery of one instrument or frequency.
   
  My little evaluation speaks more about the Shure's than the Woo - no problem since I can easily find pairings to make both of them happy. I'd like to add that the Shure's did sound good played through the amp section of my E-MU 0404 USB DAC's amp section, and a home theater amp (Aiwa).
   
  Ahhh, I overlooked pairing the Shure's with the Pioneer SX-650! But your interest cifani, was with the Woo, so just for the sake of curiosity tonight...


----------



## JoeyO.

So, as much as I don't want to distract from any current discussions going on... everyone loves a few good pictures, amirite? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Got some (unmarked) fat bottle 6FD7s from Jack for my WA6 and I absolutely love them.  I really enjoy the low frequency energy they produce!  The highs are very interesting as well - not rolled off - but just a fascinating characteristic to them!  Not sibilant one bit, which fits my HD650s just fine, of course.  Very expressive tubes with a great midrange signature!
   

   

   
  P.S.  The beer in the top-left of the last picture is Dogfish Head's 60 Minute IPA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Also, seen 'inside' the Sophia is my Chapstick.  Gotta love the New England chill...


----------



## Xcalibur255

He sent you some Sylvania 6FD7, considered by quite a few the best drop-in tube for the amp and somewhat hard to find these days.


----------



## JoeyO.

I'm glad you clarified that, Xcalibur.  I asked for them to be Sylvanias but when they came I was just like, "Oh well, I'll give whatever company made them a shot."  Wasn't disappointed.  All the things I heard about them are true, apparently!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> He sent you some Sylvania 6FD7, considered by quite a few the best drop-in tube for the amp and somewhat hard to find these days.


 


  X2, the Sylvania 6FD7 is excellent match for HD600/650 and not bad with HD800 too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> So, as much as I don't want to distract from any current discussions going on... everyone loves a few good pictures, amirite?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Another happy Woo Audio customer! Jack really knows how to take care of his people. Photographs here are a lot like snacks - you could be in a completely different mood, but once you see 'em...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _WA 6 Special Edition_, Shure E3c pairing ~
> 
> Finally unearthed the IEM's two hours past Midnight. And though I played the previous three tracks in their entirety, I couldn't make it through track four. Initially, I found myself fighting a hum and the presentation's brightness. jc9394 recommended using low gain tubes, and I believe my Ray's fill the bill there. The hum was not loud, but with the isolation custom ear molds provide, it's more noticeable than it would be with buds.
> 
> ...


 

 Try a 6EW7 instead and did not realize you have the E3c.  It is certainly non the IEM of choice for any audiophile but it is my first IEM.  Shortly after that is the SE530 and than move on to Westone series and finally settle on Jerry Harvey's former flagship.


----------



## JoeyO.

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, the Sylvania 6FD7 is excellent match for HD600/650 and not bad with HD800 too.


 


  I love them with my cans.  And don't get me started on the HD800s... I've been thinking about getting them for a long time now.  That damn price tag is such a drawback, lol.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> I love them with my cans.  And don't get me started on the HD800s... I've been thinking about getting them for a long time now.  That damn price tag is such a drawback, lol.


 
  I heard you on the price and it is recently jacked up too.  If you are too attached with HD650, you may not like the HD800 initially and asking yourself where the hell is the bass...  once your head is burn in on HD800, there is no turning back.  I still enjoy it every time I put it on.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try a 6EW7 instead and did not realize you have the E3c.  It is certainly non the IEM of choice for any audiophile but it is my first IEM.  Shortly after that is the SE530 and than move on to Westone series and finally settle on Jerry Harvey's former flagship.


 

 Yes, the E3c's were my very first entry. And I know the JH's would turn my head! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I exited the IEM's making the Denon AH-D5000's my next choice. Otherwise, I would have moved up the portables food chain. I have 6EW7's (RCA) but I found out enough about the Shure's with this particular model. Like you suggested, a better IEM would get me back to the evaluation table.


----------



## JoeyO.

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard you on the price and it is recently jacked up too.  If you are too attached with HD650, you may not like the HD800 initially and asking yourself where the hell is the bass...  once your head is burn in on HD800, there is no turning back.  I still enjoy it every time I put it on.


 


  The bass, if not satisfactory, can be EQ'd if need be.  That's right, I'm not a purist!  Haha.  I'm dying to hear the soundstage though.  If they can let me believe that I'm there with the band and you've got me as a solid buyer!  The 800's reputation for soundstage is the most alluring part for me.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> The bass, if not satisfactory, can be EQ'd if need be.  That's right, I'm not a purist!  Haha.  I'm dying to hear the soundstage though.  If they can let me believe that I'm there with the band and you've got me as a solid buyer!  The 800's reputation for soundstage is the most alluring part for me.


 


  save you some money, don't ever try it.  i like lcd-2 but with live recording, i go for hd800.


----------



## JoeyO.

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> save you some money, don't ever try it.  i like lcd-2 but with live recording, i go for hd800.


 


  That's my current dilemma.  I just don't where to go next.  The HD800 seems my logical choice (HD595 --> HD650 --> HD800).  I've heard many a-great-things about the LCD-2 but the soundstage is what's throwing me off


----------



## jc9394

Unless you want to upgrade your amp, I will go for HD800.  LCD-2 needs at least WA6SE.  With either phones, you need to upgrade your dac.


----------



## JoeyO.

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Unless you want to upgrade your amp, I will go for HD800.  LCD-2 needs at least WA6SE.  With either phones, you need to upgrade your dac.


 


  I can't seem to locate my wallet anywhere.. I think it ran away after it saw what you wrote...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> I can't seem to locate my wallet anywhere.. I think it ran away after it saw what you wrote...


 


  Honestly, you'll locate it quicker by using deception...


----------



## JoeyO.

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Honestly, you'll locate it quicker by using deception...


 


  Hahaha, isn't that always that case??  "Hey wallet, I seriously NEED to get this really expensive piece of audio equipment.  I'm pretty sure I can't live without it.  Just sayin."


----------



## jc9394

Don't worry, you will find your wallet soon enough when you are ready.  Like everyone said to new member "sorry for your wallet"


----------



## Pudu

jc9394 said:


> Try a 6EW7 instead and did not realize you have the E3c.  It is certainly non the IEM of choice for any audiophile but it is my first IEM.  Shortly after that is the SE530 and than move on to Westone series and finally settle on Jerry Harvey's former flagship.





Yep, I used E3c for many years before moving further into this looney world of head audio. I still have them and when it gets really cold, 10 below and lower, I use them exclusively when walking outside. The shure olives on them keep my ear canals nice and toasty. 


Those are some nice looking tubes posted in the last few pages. Congratulations on your new toys lads. You are making me want to start branching away from stock.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> That's my current dilemma.  I just don't where to go next.  The HD800 seems my logical choice (HD595 --> HD650 --> HD800).  I've heard many a-great-things about the LCD-2 but the soundstage is what's throwing me off


 

 I love my LCD-2 but I have to admit that my daughters Audio Technica ATH AD700's often kick its ass when it comes to soundstage.  I'm also interested in the HD 800 for the soundstage but I'm waiting on the HD 700's that are rumored to be coming sometime in January.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I love my LCD-2 but I have to admit that my daughters Audio Technica ATH AD700's often kick its ass when it comes to soundstage.  I'm also interested in the HD 800 for the soundstage but I'm waiting on the HD 700's that are rumored to be coming sometime in January.


 


  Do you think the HD 700's will feature angled-drivers following the HD 800's (trickle-down)? Or just a natural progression from the HD 650?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Do you think the HD 700's will feature angled-drivers following the HD 800's (trickle-down)? Or just a natural progression from the HD 650?


 

 I have no idea.  It will be interesting though.


----------



## mwilson

It's probably crouched in the fetal position in a dark corner.
  
  Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> I can't seem to locate my wallet anywhere.. I think it ran away after it saw what you wrote...


----------



## grokit

We need an HD850


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> We need an HD850


 


  Competition is a good thing. With a lot of the attention going to Planars this year, you just know the big, proud German Giant is cookin' it up back in the labs.


----------



## Rawrbington

what dac's do you guys like for the around 500$ price tag?
  dacmagic? ive heard mixed things about it.
  digital link iii?
  musical fidelity v dac (or something?)
  teac UD H01?
  im in the market for one as well.
  probably need to upgrade mine too before moving on to bigger better cans.
   
  also after 2 nights with the WA2 i have noticed the detail is a step up from the 3.  really liking it a lot.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what dac's do you guys like for the around 500$ price tag?
> dacmagic? ive heard mixed things about it.
> digital link iii?
> musical fidelity v dac (or something?)
> ...


 
   
  I've been hearing that the Bifrost is quite the amp.


----------



## Rawrbington

ahh yes forgot about the schiit.
  that one is definitely intriguing


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ahh yes forgot about the schiit.
> that one is definitely intriguing


 


  Yes, it's come real nice Schiit alright.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I've been hearing that the Bifrost is quite the amp.


 


  Ummm...the Bifrost is a DAC.


----------



## Rawrbington

hey MacidonianHero, what dac did you used to use when you were using the wa2?
  and did you ever hear any orthos (hifimans or audeze) out of the 2?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> hey MacidonianHero, what dac did you used to use when you were using the wa2?
> and did you ever hear any orthos (hifimans or audeze) out of the 2?


 


  Cary XCiter (great DAC, very neutral and revealing):
  http://www.caryaudio.com/products/xciter/XciterDAC.html
   
  The WA2 was quite good driving my LCD-2s...but a non-starter really with the HE-6s.


----------



## Rawrbington

ahh nice.
  i've kinda wanted the LCD2's for a while.
  and htey seem to kinda be on sale lately if you buy used.  which i prefer to do.
   
  i think the Cary is a bit out of my price range.  looks awesome though


----------



## Draygonn

rawrbington said:


>



So beautiful. Enjoy!



rawrbington said:


> lastly the 600 ohm 990s.
> if you like the 990/880/770 sound, i feel like the match between the wa2 and the 990 600 ohm is outstanding.  perhaps very close to as good as it gets.  the tube nature of the OTL wa2 and the 990/600 is a match made in heaven.  Clarity, detail, SoundStage.  The sibilence is dulled a hair, changing them from bright to just having nice top end sparkle.  the bottom end tightens up a hair and the little bit of bloat is gone.  and the mids really come out to play.  keeping the same lively incredibly fun sound, but taming the edges, almost bringing a little bit more fidelity to the sound i think.  these two really like each other a lot.  and when you put them on, well it really is magic.  it gives you that feeling that we all know.  the feeling where you get goosebumps, not so much from the song being badass, which def does happen of course, but goosebumps because the equipment is just flat out killing it



I felt the same when I had DT880s. They love the WA2, would have kept them if the HD800 didn't cover their territory.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Ummm...the Bifrost is a DAC.


 


   
   
  Sorry, that's what I mean.


----------



## spagetka

Danska, do you like Zu mobius cable?
  
  Quote: 





danska said:


> Here she is, just getting warmed up. I'll be taking some more pictures over the next day or two when I get a chance to listen for a while.
> 
> SilentOne: I played Diana Krall's "I love being here with you" from her Live In Paris LP (45) for a intro track. By the third song on that side, things were really opening up. My only comments so far are that the highs seem a bit harsh, I'm using the Sylvania driver tubes pictured.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





grokit said:


> We need an HD850


 


  Oh please no. I am trying to save some money here.


----------



## Austin Morrow

No, what we need is a Sennhesier HD1000.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _WA 6 Special Edition_, Shure E3c pairing ~
> 
> Finally unearthed the IEM's two hours past Midnight. And though I played the previous three tracks in their entirety, I couldn't make it through track four. Initially, I found myself fighting a hum and the presentation's brightness. jc9394 recommended using low gain tubes, and I believe my Ray's fill the bill there. The hum was not loud, but with the isolation custom ear molds provide, it's more noticeable than it would be with buds.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you, sorry it didn't work out.
  
  Quote: 





joeyo. said:


> So, as much as I don't want to distract from any current discussions going on... everyone loves a few good pictures, amirite?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice! It looks like the silver is green...
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I love my LCD-2 but I have to admit that my daughters Audio Technica ATH AD700's often kick its ass when it comes to soundstage.  I'm also interested in the HD 800 for the soundstage but I'm waiting on the HD 700's that are rumored to be coming sometime in January.


 

 They are... If you know your Sennheisers, you should know this was the newly leaked photo of the HD-700's.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Thank you, sorry it didn't work out.
> 
> 
> Very nice! It looks like the silver is green...
> ...


 

 Is that some kind of a joke, or is that real? I like the design of the HD650's and the HD800 a lot more.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ahh yes forgot about the schiit.
> that one is definitely intriguing


 


  i currently drive my 6SE off a bifrost and as the french soldier said "oh yes, it's very nice!".  unfortunately i have nothing to compare it to.  my only other DAC is the headroom micro dac but i haven't gotten the two close enough to try them together yet.  in any case, from memory, i'm pretty sure the bifrost is the winner in that contest.  at that price the schiit is pretty hard to beat imo.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Is that some kind of a joke, or is that real? I like the design of the HD650's and the HD800 a lot more.


 


  i don't know, i can certainly see the evolution.  600 cups attached a la 800 with some metal highlights.  i don't think they look bad at all...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i don't know, i can certainly see the evolution.  600 cups attached a la 800 with some metal highlights.  i don't think they look bad at all...


 


  There is something about them I don't like. I don't know what it is, maybe it's the awkwardly positioned cups just like on the new Senns.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Thank you, sorry it didn't work out.
> 
> 
> Very nice! It looks like the silver is green...
> ...


 


  Looks like a Beyer, I don't like it at all.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Looks like a Beyer, I don't like it at all.


 

 Agreed. Not a huge fan of it either. I think it's the metal strip that's bugging me the most the more I look at it. And please don't remove the velour from my HD650's. They had a lot of clamping force, but my velour made up for that tiny issue!


----------



## Eee Pee

Photo tag says Sennheiser 448.
   
   
  http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/bc/bc31d3b4_SennheiserHD_448.jpe g


----------



## Icenine2

Man this thread is so busy I can't keep up.  Every time I miss a day there are about 50-70 posts!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Photo tag says Sennheiser 448.
> 
> 
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/bc/bc31d3b4_SennheiserHD_448.jpe g


 


  Didn't see that. Thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Photo tag says Sennheiser 448.
> 
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/bc/bc31d3b4_SennheiserHD_448.jpe g


 

 Thank you! Gosh, bahaha. I was waiting for someone to point that out. I guess you guys fell for the trick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  On a serious note though they are coming out early January and they will either be called the HD700's or the HD750's. They may actually release two headphones??? Never know, and they will be released for $700-900. This is not fake information, this is all factual.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> This is not fake information, this is all factual.


 


  From where if I may ask?
   
  And yeah, being a Sennheiser fan in anticipation of a new headphone, I make sure to do some CSI action on everything I read.


----------



## Clayton SF

Another sunny day in SF, 11C/51F. It's warming up my very very old tube collection and the WA6.
  One tube says Mullard--made in Holland. I thought Mullards were made in England.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> From where if I may ask?
> 
> And yeah, being a Sennheiser fan in anticipation of a new headphone, I make sure to do some CSI action on everything I read.


 

 A Head-Fier...
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Another sunny day in SF, 11C/51F. It's warming up my very very old tube collection and the WA6.
> One tube says Mullard--made in Holland. I thought Mullards were made in England.


 

 Nice collection you have there. Kinda amazing, not that it matters, and things do cost money, and i dont know tubes well enough to judge, but that tube collection has to be worth what, $800?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> A Head-Fier...
> 
> Nice collection you have there. Kinda amazing, not that it matters, and things do cost money, and i dont know tubes well enough to judge, but that tube collection has to be worth what, $800?


 

 I don't know how much they are worth but I didn't pay for them. All of those tubes in that frame were freebies. Whenever I buy some NOS tubes from this ebay seller, he includes a few used vintage tubes for free along with my purchase. He's given me about 30 tubes. I don't think they can be used in any current amps that I know of. They certainly look great. And I believe they still work.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> This is not fake information, this is all factual.


 
   
  Quote: 





eee pee said:


> From where if I may ask?


 
   
  It was on the Internet.  It was in writing.  It has got to be true.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I could care less how headphones look.  I barely look at my LCD-2's.  I pick them up put them on and when I take them off I put them aside. They could look like anything and I wouldn't care.   I more interested in how the 700's will sound and how much they cost.


----------



## Wapiti

Agreed, but a bit of equipment that feels nice or looks good is still pleasing.  It counts, but not nearly as much as function.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I could care less how headphones look.  I barely look at my LCD-2's.  I pick them up put them on and when I take them off I put them aside. They could look like anything and I wouldn't care.   I more interested in how the 700's will sound and how much they cost.


 


  I think the LCD-2's look awesome. Trust me sound comes first. But they can't look like taped together pieces of styrofoam.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I think the LCD-2's look awesome. Trust me sound comes first. But they can't look like taped together pieces of styrofoam.


 

 That's funny because when my LCD-s arrived that exactly how I thought they were put together.


----------



## grokit

Here is the article, citing an unnamed source at Sennheiser re the HD700 via their "rumor mill exclusive" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.bestheadphonesguide.com/2011/10/rumor-mill-exclusive-sennheiser-hd700-750/
   
  Seems highly suspect to me. First time I've ever been to bestheadphonesguide.com, who are these guys and why should we believe them?
   
  Is it even confirmed that the HD600 is discontinued?


----------



## grokit

Here is the article, citing an unnamed source at Sennheiser re the HD700 via their "rumor mill exclusive" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  http://www.bestheadphonesguide.com/2011/10/rumor-mill-exclusive-sennheiser-hd700-750/
   
  Seems highly suspect to me. First time I've ever been to bestheadphonesguide.com, who are these guys and why should we believe them?
   
  Is it even confirmed that the HD600 is discontinued? Not that I can find...


----------



## WarriorAnt

I just found this rumor thread on Head-Fi
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/531373/sennheiser-hd600-discontinued
   
  HD 700
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/173816/new-sennheiser-hd-700


----------



## Rawrbington

sorry to change subjects but i have a quick tube question.
  my woo came with 4 5998s and 1 of them has a loose base.  its just kinda wiggly.
  how can i tell if its lost its vacuum?


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> HD 700
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/173816/new-sennheiser-hd-700


 


  Check the date.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Check the date.


 


  Oh that's too funny!  2006!  I wonder if the thread starter changed the thread header recently.  Looks like both thread are old!  I guess we'll see soon enough by late December or January if there is a 700 coming along...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> sorry to change subjects but i have a quick tube question.
> my woo came with 4 5998s and 1 of them has a loose base.  its just kinda wiggly.
> how can i tell if its lost its vacuum?


 


  Loose base is no problem, this is rather common with old tubes actually.  Nearly half of mine are loose if they are inspected closely enough.  It has nothing to do with the glass envelope or the vacuum integrity.  If your tube loses vacuum the silver patch (the getter) inside the tube will partially or completely turn a chalky white color.  If this ever happens don't ever put the tube in the amp for use again.
   
  The base is held against the glass with a type of glue which can become very brittle over the years and sometimes it just gives up the ghost.  If it really bothers you a common trick is to use clear nail polish or acrylic cement to secure the base again, but the best advice is to just leave it be and handle it with care.  The most important thing is to not twist the base at all, this can stress or break the soldering on the pins which will ruin the tube and possibly produce an electrical short.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Check the date.


 


  I was going to say.... rumors about the HD700 have been around since, oh I'd say about a week after the HD650 was released.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I was going to say.... rumors about the HD700 have been around since, oh I'd say about a week after the HD650 was released.


 


  Isn't that almost cliche with all products. "Oh hey, look, the HiFiMan HE-6's just came out" Person B: "I'll just wait for the HE-600's, they'll probably be a much better upgrade.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> It was on the Internet.  It was in writing.  It has got to be true.


 
   
  Confirmed Sennheiser rep.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Here is the article, citing an unnamed source at Sennheiser re the HD700 via their "rumor mill exclusive"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It looks like very,very similar info i have. I suspect that was published from the same Head-Fier that told me.
  
  Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Check the date.


 

 I know! The rumors have been around for years... I think this info is new though.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Confirmed Sennheiser rep.


 


  Sorry.  I  should have included a smiley.
   
  Then again, everything I know about new Sennheisers I have read on the Internet.  It must be true!
   
  Ask your rep the date of the next Rapture.


----------



## Draygonn

austin morrow said:


> Isn't that almost cliche with all products. "Oh hey, look, the HiFiMan HE-6's just came out" Person B: "I'll just wait for the HE-600's, they'll probably be a much better upgrade.



Haha, in HifiMan's case they upgrade fast enough you could skip a model. Looks like Audeze is on that pace with the LCD-4's coming out next year. Maybe its an ortho thing


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Haha, in HifiMan's case they upgrade fast enough you could skip a model. Looks like Audeze is on that pace with the LCD-4's coming out next year. Maybe its an ortho thing


 


  Good for progress, not so great for early adopters.  I seriously raised an eyebrow when Alex stated during the launch of the LCD-3 that a successor would be along in about a year.  That _must_ have stopped at least a few sales.  If I were an LCD-2 owner interested in LCD-3 I think a one year wait to do even better would be worth the wait to save that much money.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Oh, they upgrade fast enough. Just wait.....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so hd 600s are discontinued ?!!? 
   
  if thats true, damn i have to get a pair now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  and i can't wait till im done with work so i can order the wa2!!!!


----------



## jc9394

I know this is the Woo thread but just wanna to share with you guys what I picked up an hour ago.  Now, I need a better SE cable or Dual XLR to TRS...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know this is the Woo thread but just wanna to share with you guys what I picked up an hour ago.  Now, I need a better SE cable or Dual XLR to TRS...


 

 Very nice unit! What did you pay? $300-600...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Very nice unit! What did you pay? $300-600...


 


  $200


----------



## grokit

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> $200


 

 Nice!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> $200


 

 What a deal, was that with or without negotiations?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know this is the Woo thread but just wanna to share with you guys what I picked up an hour ago.  Now, I need a better SE cable or Dual XLR to TRS...


 

  
  She's a Cutie! As a "Vintage" integrated owner, I appreciate the sneak preview here. Please tell us you're not using the glue seen in the background for solder-less applications...


----------



## danska

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Danska, do you like Zu mobius cable?


 


  I do indeed. I had the pleasure of visiting Zu in Ogden, UT and I really like their products. All of their cables are great, I prefer the Mobius a great deal over the Cardas Cable I had previously. Sound is a bit better overall, and the cable is much more flexible. I got a 4.5 meter version because I needed some extra length for my listening room.


----------



## WooAudio

We've just updated some stock pictures for some of the amplifiers. Hope you enjoy!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What a deal, was that with or without negotiations?


 


  A little of twisting the owner's arm and a gun to his head.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Nothing like that, I emailed the seller the lowest he wants to let it go.  He simply reply with one question, "How well you are going to treat it and will you reseller it"  I said I will treat it better than my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. That is how I got him to lower the asking price.
   
  He loves this receiver and only sell it is to move south to retire and his hearing is getting bad.


----------



## danska

So I'm curious what y'all would do as far as changing driver tubes on the WA6? I have a couple pairs of 6SN7s and was thinking about getting some adapters to try those out. Any other specific recommendations for someone into Jazz, female vocals, instrumental rock etc..
   
  I was given a whole slew of rectifiers (5AR4, 5U4Gs, GZ32, Sophia Princess 274b), so I have some stuff to play around with there. Although I'm going to have a hard time swapping out the SP, as it is quite glorious to look at!
   
  As my contribution to the Woo world, I'd be happy to pass along a Sylvania 5U4G Rectifier. I don't have a tester but I have a quad of them that appear to be NOS in original boxes. I don't need them all by any means. Please contact me if you'd like one (I ask that you cover postage).


----------



## jc9394

IF you think SP is glorious, just wait til you get an EML.  It is both glorious and sound excellent.
   
  On the driver tubes, try to get yourself a Tung Sol BGRP 6F8G with adapter.  It is the best and more afford driver tube that I tried.  Generally 6F8G are less and sound really good.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> We've just updated some stock pictures for some of the amplifiers. Hope you enjoy!


 


  Nice update but I missed the internal glamour shots.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> She's a Cutie! As a "Vintage" integrated owner, I appreciate the sneak preview here. Please tell us you're not using the glue seen in the background for solder-less applications...


 


  Great catch, yes I did use it.  Did I do it wrong?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  See my water warmer???  I did brewed myself a few shot of "woolong" when I tried it out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> We've just updated some stock pictures for some of the amplifiers. Hope you enjoy!


 


  Love it when you drop in!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Great catch, yes I did use it.  Did I do it wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes, I saw how you smartly, conveniently you set up your area. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's no accident that you are a Woo Audio owner...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> IF you think SP is glorious, just wait til you get an EML.  It is both glorious and sound excellent.
> 
> On the driver tubes, try to get yourself a Tung Sol BGRP 6F8G with adapter.  It is the best and more afford driver tube that I tried.  Generally 6F8G are less and sound really good.


 


  We've got EML Glass all day.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, I keep forgetting to list it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jc9394 is right about the EML, danska. Should you or any others have interest, please send me a PM. Thanks!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know this is the Woo thread but just wanna to share with you guys what I picked up an hour ago.  Now, I need a better SE cable or Dual XLR to TRS...


 

 Too bad, I just gave one away with my Q-Audio cable.  $30.00 from Steve Eddy at Q-Audio cable if you need one.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know this is the Woo thread but just wanna to share with you guys what I picked up an hour ago.  Now, I need a better SE cable or Dual XLR to TRS...


 


  Excellent photography my friend. Really liking the look of that.


----------



## Silent One

EML 5U4G Mesh Plate --
   
  Under normal operation, what's the life expectancy again - 5,000 hours? Or 5,000-9,000 hours?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A little of twisting the owner's arm and a gun to his head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha, nice negotiations!

  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Excellent photography my friend. Really liking the look of that.


 

 x2, very nice.


----------



## PanamaRed

That amp is gorgeous jc


----------



## danska

Anyone have a recommendation for me DAC wise. I'm looking for something to sit next to the WA6 on my shelf. Don't need USB per-say but it would be nice. $1k price range, I like to buy used so it could be under that.

 The Rega DAC is the only one on my list at the moment as I like their products and can pick up a used unit for near $700. I own some other Rega gear (Cursa3 pre, Apollo CDP), so I feel like it would be a good system match. Open to some other ideas, only stipulation is that it needs to be silver or at least have a silver face. Also I don't have any use for balanced inputs or outputs, and won't be needing them anytime soon.


----------



## danska

Some music I have been really enjoying so far today is my newest aqusition, "Alison Krauss + Union Station Live". It is now out of print in the 3 LP version. The recording quality of it is absolutely stellar. Sounds amazing on the WA6/HD650 combo! I got it from music direct during their thanksgiving sale for about $50 less than what the copies on eBay are going for.
   
  If anyone is a fan of bluegrass music I would put it on your must own list, and buy it now before the price goes up even more.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Too bad, I just gave one away with my Q-Audio cable.  $30.00 from Steve Eddy at Q-Audio cable if you need one.


 


  Crap, I knew I need one but never get around to order one.


  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Excellent photography my friend. Really liking the look of that.


 

 Thanks, I like a little of sunset/antique looks of natural light.
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> EML 5U4G Mesh Plate --
> 
> Under normal operation, what's the life expectancy again - 5,000 hours? Or 5,000-9,000 hours?


 

 I believe it is > 5,000 hours but not sure exactly how many.  More like into 7,000-8,000 range.
   


  Quote: 





panamared said:


> That amp is gorgeous jc


 
   
  Thanks...


----------



## Rawrbington

love the way my woo reproduces cymbals and vocals.  its so lifelike.  not sure how else to describe it.  everyday when i get home from work it takes me to musical heaven for a few hours.  gets my mind off of the crap that is the real world.  its better than drugs


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Crap, I knew I need one but never get around to order one.
> 
> Thanks, I like a little of sunset/antique looks of natural light.
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks, jc9394. @ some 800+ hours on my EML, I know it has a lot of life left. Especially since I observe best practices.


----------



## Rawrbington

how long should warm up be to help the life span?
  1 min or 5?
  i usually wait at least 2-3.
  should i wait longer?
   
  i just don't want to replace a pair of TS5998's anytime soon with the price they are going for these days


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how long should warm up be to help the life span?
> 1 min or 5?
> i usually wait at least 2-3.
> should i wait longer?
> ...


 


  I usually give it about 5 minutes.


----------



## flaming_june

Woo nice vintage amp.  Then read:
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> $200


 

  
   
  so much jealouseeee
   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Good for progress, not so great for early adopters.  I seriously raised an eyebrow when Alex stated during the launch of the LCD-3 that a successor would be along in about a year.  That _must_ have stopped at least a few sales.  If I were an LCD-2 owner interested in LCD-3 I think a one year wait to do even better would be worth the wait to save that much money.


 

 The thing is though if you're happy with the previous version there's really no reason to change.  A lot of product you can try at meets anyways.
   
   
  The EML tube that was in my woo had it's little black fitting at the bottom break up.  Now if I shake the amp I can hear the plastic shaking around inside the amp.  Plus the tube doesn't sit well on the amp anymore.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> $200


 
  I'm still gloating over the price I paid for my 2215B at a yard sale. $5.   No wood cabinet though.


----------



## Rawrbington

i know i've kinda been asking the last few days,
  but i think im about to buy a dacmagic.
  is there any reason why i shouldn't?
 will it be a decent upgrade from my fubar ii?
  does it have a funky sound sig that won't mix well with my wa2?
  etc etc


----------



## grokit

Quote:


danska said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for me DAC wise. I'm looking for something to sit next to the WA6 on my shelf. Don't need USB per-say but it would be nice. $1k price range, I like to buy used so it could be under that.
> 
> The Rega DAC is the only one on my list at the moment as I like their products and can pick up a used unit for near $700. I own some other Rega gear (Cursa3 pre, Apollo CDP), so I feel like it would be a good system match. Open to some other ideas, only stipulation is that it needs to be silver or at least have a silver face. Also I don't have any use for balanced inputs or outputs, and won't be needing them anytime soon.


 

 The Schiit Bifrost seems to be getting giant-killing reviews and if you don't need USB you don't have to pay for it. I would also take a look at the new Audiolab M-DAC which may stretch your budget if it's $700 but it sounds like a real winner.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm still gloating over the price I paid for my 2215B at a yard sale. $5.   No wood cabinet though.


 


  I'm proud of my SX-650 @ $60._ Blame it on the auction_... wanted it near $25 but me and a few others bid up until time expired, toe-to-toe baby! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't sit down until 4 minutes to go and watched a couple of cats dukin' it out. At the 1 minute mark I took my seat and jumped in. At 10 seconds to go $57... then $58... 2 seconds remaining and I bid $68 and took her home at $60. My cut-off was $68 and I knew I'd get the best price under, so... 
   
  Will pay much less at the next Estate Sale; Goodwill...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> The Schiit Bifrost seems to be getting giant-killing reviews and if you don't need USB you don't have to pay for it. I would also take a look at the new Audiolab M-DAC which may stretch your budget if it's $700 but it sounds like a real winner.


 


  He may not wanna use up the entire $1k but, if he get's to hear a W4S DAC-1.... both DAC-1 & 2 return HUGE dividends for the investment!




  I bought my DAC-1 "B"-stock. Upgraded the Digital board; _Low ESR "Super Caps"_ and I'm still under a Grand!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> He may not wanna use up the entire $1k but, if he get's to hear a W4S DAC-1.... both DAC-1 & 2 return HUGE dividends for the investment!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It sounds like he is stuck on the silver faceplate though...


----------



## grokit

Audeze LCD-3, LCD-2, and Grado PS500 added to web store


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





danska said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for me DAC wise. I'm looking for something to sit next to the WA6 on my shelf. Don't need USB per-say but it would be nice. $1k price range, I like to buy used so it could be under that.
> 
> The Rega DAC is the only one on my list at the moment as I like their products and can pick up a used unit for near $700. I own some other Rega gear (Cursa3 pre, Apollo CDP), so I feel like it would be a good system match. Open to some other ideas, only stipulation is that it needs to be silver or at least have a silver face. Also I don't have any use for balanced inputs or outputs, and won't be needing them anytime soon.


 

 I think the Head-Fier "Loevhagen" owns the Rega DAC.  you might want to ask him about it.   Been hearing good things about the Rega Brio-R. i think he is buying one of those to match up with the Rega DAC.


----------



## Silent One

I find the darker Caribbean Rosewood and black pads on the LCD-2 to be more striking; beautiful, than the newer sibling.


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i know i've kinda been asking the last few days,
> but i think im about to buy a dacmagic.
> is there any reason why i shouldn't?
> will it be a decent upgrade from my fubar ii?
> ...


 


  Jack recommended the dacmagic to me when I asked. I loved my dacmagic but sold it a few days ago. Going to replace it with the new dacmagic plus or the woo dac (if it comes in black).
  apparently the rega dac is quite a decent step up despite the price gap. I'm just not sure about the shape of it, and it only has one one analog output.


----------



## jamesnz

Actually, what are people's thoughts on system matching? Is it advisable to get a cd player or dac from the same company who made your amp? That's looking at synergy between them etc.


----------



## Draygonn

wooaudio said:


> We've just updated some stock pictures for some of the amplifiers. Hope you enjoy!



Glowing pics!


----------



## Silent One

_Woo Audio knows... Black Magic_


----------



## jamesnz

I would have redone the product shots for free if Jack wanted to ship the amps to NZ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> I would have redone the product shots for free if Jack wanted to ship the amps to NZ...


 


  Those amps would've qualified for frequent flier miles by themselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speaking of product shots redone, there are a few (not many) of these shots where the tubes are not sitting up straight. I know sometimes that the sockets can sit just so, and we accept this. But with this being a product shot, I feel efforts should have been made to better support them (make 'em straight). 
   
  I own one of these amps, I know they're finely crafted. But if one is looking to buy one, ain't never seen one and is now viewing them on the website, I fear that wayward tubes in the pix may turn some potential buyers away. Looks can be deceiving and sometimes detract (take away) from what one is representing. 
   
  Additionally, (in my view) the tube selection made for the WA2 now has it looking as the richer of the two amps between it and the WA 6 SE. It looks dolled-up this round, while the 6 SE is being shown in a rather ordinary light. I'm not biased, I'm just a Woo Audio loving _WA 6 Special Edition_ owner of 16 months... and feel somewhat... ok, you got me! But surely you can understand my position. I want all of us owners to be shown in the best light.


----------



## jamesnz

Fair enough! 5 minues in photoshop could do wonders for lighting and straightening of tubes. Otherwise, they are great product shots. Kinda like old Mercedes advertisements.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i know i've kinda been asking the last few days,
> but i think im about to buy a dacmagic.
> is there any reason why i shouldn't?
> will it be a decent upgrade from my fubar ii?
> ...


 


  In that pricerange I think the Bifrost would be the better bet personally.  Schiit has proven their gear is worthy of more than just FOTM status by now, and the dacmagic has a reputation for being a little clinical sounding.


----------



## Silent One

*"It's A Whale of A Tale But the Shark's in Jail..."  - Ramsey Lewis*
   
   
   
  Anyone up for a little irony? The TS-BGRP's sound better paired with the EML 5U4G than the USAF-596. So, where's the irony you ask? I sold the EML Glass Monday evening... only to make the discovery later Monday night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But the '596' is my Rec of choice and we gonna roll with it. As for the TS-BGRP's? It's early, they need play-in. Maybe a week's worth of current flowing through them; no idea how long they may have been sitting on the shelf.
   
  What I do know, and this is preliminary only, is whatever the Tung-Sol's can do, my Ray's can do equally or better. And yes, this is equipment dependent, listening preferences dependent. But the Ray's are no joking, baby! More revealing, detail, clarity, timbre, separation, focus and finish of notes, bigger sound stage and so on. After sampling tonight, there's but one quality the Ray's can't match or get next to: Dimension. The Tung-Sol's, although with a smaller sounding presentation, returns more dimension with notes played, the Ray's seem a bit flatter in this regard. Think of notes/letters drawn on paper with or without shading to making them appear to have more dimension.  Versus those same size notes/letters that are cut-out and raised bringing them dimension. 
   
  The Tung-Sol's may improve over time (maybe not), but they are definitely over priced at $400+. And no, my expectations were not _over the moon and under the stars._ Due to scarcity and supply & demand, I understand the pricing. But my current tubes can handle anything the TS' can and sound sweeter to boot (save the dimension quality). Again, things can change over the course of a week or so.  But they stand an excellent chance of being listed if only because they sound good, different but not better than what I've already got.


----------



## grokit

Well this thread sure got one heck of a bump yesterday...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Fair enough! 5 minues in photoshop could do wonders for lighting and straightening of tubes. Otherwise, they are great product shots. Kinda like old Mercedes advertisements.


 


  I'm with you - perhaps, when being reviewed... a better decision could have been made.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well this thread sure got one heck of a bump yesterday...


 


  Well now, a much much better rendering...


----------



## Draygonn

Ring Driver? Nice...


----------



## jamesnz

I want those headphones if they build on my 650s


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well this thread sure got one heck of a bump yesterday...


 

 I'm still laughing at the fact the original rumor thread here on Head-Fi was started in 2006!   Now I won't ever believe anything until I see it.  BTW I heard Sennheiser was going out of business...


----------



## grokit

Quote:


warriorant said:


> I'm still laughing at the fact the original rumor thread here on Head-Fi was started in 2006!   Now I won't ever believe anything until I see it.  BTW I heard Sennheiser was going out of business...


 

 There were a few HD700 threads from back then. But this looks real, after all the photo came from the "official forum of Sennheiser China" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_Edited to add winkyface because I don't think Sennheiser would leave the drivers without grill covers, but maybe..._


----------



## flaming_june

Ahahahahaahaha.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> There were a few HD700 threads from back then. But this looks real, after all the photo came from the "official forum of Sennheiser China"
> 
> ...


 


  Like the exposed preforated look though. Senn is notorious for what they sometimes leave out or in reduced quantity -_* this can must... have... Bass.*_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

unfortunately i feel these headphones are gonna be priced in the 700-750 dollar range 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  baby hd 800s or upgraded hd 650s?
   
   
  im gonna guess baby hd 800
   
   
   
   
  and for sure im getting a WA2 now after i saw those new pics lol. gonna get lcd-2 and hopefully t1 as well. i may or may not sell my rs1 and will sell the dt 990s maybe if i get the t1. 
   
  not sure yet tho.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> The Schiit Bifrost seems to be getting giant-killing reviews and if you don't need USB you don't have to pay for it. I would also take a look at the new Audiolab M-DAC which may stretch your budget if it's $700 but it sounds like a real winner.


 


  The Bifrost actually looks pretty cool, I would be willing to give it a shot for the price. Are people actually receiving them now?


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> He may not wanna use up the entire $1k but, if he get's to hear a W4S DAC-1.... both DAC-1 & 2 return HUGE dividends for the investment!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I actually saw a used one go for $7xx on audiogon the other day, it was gone in a couple of hours. I'm willing to use up most of the budget if its worth my while. Part of me wouldn't mind a lower dollar unit to get me on the road and use the other $ for a new set of cans!

  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> It sounds like he is stuck on the silver faceplate though...


 

 Unfortunately I would have to get a slamming deal on something that isn't silver just because all my other gear is completely silver or has the faceplate.
   


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I think the Head-Fier "Loevhagen" owns the Rega DAC.  you might want to ask him about it.   Been hearing good things about the Rega Brio-R. i think he is buying one of those to match up with the Rega DAC.


 
   
  I'll look him up. Thanks all for the info! The Brio-R does sound really nice actually, heard some Era D-10s with it and they had a great presentation. I've heard the Rega DAC also just not in my home system.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think i settled on the bifrost.
  my sound card has digital coax out so i don't need to drop the 100$ on the usb option.
  if i was gonna have to use usb i woulda gone for the dac magic cause it can be had for a little over 300$


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Like the exposed preforated look though. Senn is notorious for what they sometimes leave out or in reduced quantity -_* this can must... have... Bass.*_


 


 I would say that Sennhheisers are neutral just need a amp that can reproduce bass


----------



## danska

I just got an email back from Jason @ Schiit stating they have tons of backorders on the Bifrost. Since I'm looking to purchase something soon, I think I'll rule it out.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> I just got an email back from Jason @ Schiit stating they have tons of backorders on the Bifrost. Since I'm looking to purchase something soon, I think I'll rule it out.


 


  What about gamma2?


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What about gamma2?


 


  That would suit my needs just right. Know where I can get one that's completed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?


----------



## jc9394

Pm misterx


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> unfortunately i feel these headphones are gonna be priced in the 700-750 dollar range
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Its possible they will sound better than the 800's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I would say that Sennhheisers are neutral just need a amp that can reproduce bass


 
  This was my experience with the k701 as well.  Widely regarded as bass light, if you dump enough power into them they have all the bass you need.  I get plenty of bass from them now.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This was my experience with the k701 as well.  Widely regarded as bass light, if you dump enough power into them they have all the bass you need.  I get plenty of bass from them now.


 

 x2.
  The WA4 gives my k701 the bass it needs. Double bass jazz has never sounded so good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2.
> The WA4 gives my k701 the bass it needs. Double bass jazz has never sounded so good.


 


_I bet Weather Report/Jaco Pastorius/WA4 would prove a wicked combination... _


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2.
> The WA4 gives my k701 the bass it needs. Double bass jazz has never sounded so good.


 

 I hear there is a K701 Bass Heavy Version.  Is that true?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I hear there is a K701 Bass Heavy Version.  Is that true?


 

 might be true. i wouldnt say bass heavy. but bass "better" than the regular one,. its just a step below the hd 650 and a little bit more punch and tightness than my 325s


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> might be true. i wouldnt say bass heavy. but bass "better" than the regular one,. its just a step below the hd 650 and a little bit more punch and tightness than my 325s


 


  Do you mean the Grado 325?  My daughter has a pair of Grado 80i's and I just don't get the Grados.  It seems that the frequency response can drastically change by moving the way they sit on your ear and  there is no way to know if that are actually sitting on your ears correctly.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I hear there is a K701 Bass Heavy Version.  Is that true?


 


  Thought that was slang for the K702?  They tweaked the tonal balance when they went from 1 --> 2.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Do you mean the Grado 325?  My daughter has a pair of Grado 801's and I just don't get the Grados.  It seems that the frequency response can drastically change by moving the way they sit on your ear and  there is no way to know if that are actually sitting on your ears correctly.


 


  yes grado 325is


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





danska said:


> I just got an email back from Jason @ Schiit stating they have tons of backorders on the Bifrost. Since I'm looking to purchase something soon, I think I'll rule it out.


 


  great.
  so i decide on the bifrost over the dacmagic and then i find out i can't get one right now.
  I NEED IT NOW


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes grado 325is


 


  That should read 80i's.   Don't other folks find correct ear placement of the Grados a problem?  I tried the 80i's for a few night and dismissed them completely because of the placement issues.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2.
> The WA4 gives my k701 the bass it needs. Double bass jazz has never sounded so good.


 


  I remember seeing the WA4 on the Woo Audio website... always, until 2009-2010 maybe? Did you buy it just before they stopped selling it or got lucky with a pre-owned edition?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> This was my experience with the k701 as well.  Widely regarded as bass light, if you dump enough power into them they have all the bass you need.  I get plenty of bass from them now.


 

 With the WA6 or OTL?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With the WA6 or OTL?


 


  The OTL.  It *destroys* the WA6 in terms of bass response.... the poor Woo sounds pretty weak in the knees by comparison.  Not to say there is lots of actual bass in the music, which there isn't.  The proper tonal balance is there, the actual frequency extension is just much better as is the drive and sense of energy behind the notes.  There isn't really more bass, it just has more presence.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I remember seeing the WA4 on the Woo Audio website... always, until 2009-2010 maybe? Did you buy it just before they stopped selling it or got lucky with a pre-owned edition?


 

 About a year ago I asked Jack if he could build me a WA4 and he said that it was a discontinued model but that he had some parts available to build one more unit but he had to locate them. Later this year when I was in Amsterdam he emailed me and said that he had found enough parts to build two more WA4s and that I could have one of them if I was still interested. I said YES! So he started the build in August of this year and I got a brand spanking new WA4 this last October. It is a completely new build! Thank you, Jack.
   
  http://gallery.me.com/claytonjuan#100419
   
  (Click on the photo for a larger version.)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> About a year ago I asked Jack if he could build me a WA4 and he said that it was a discontinued model but that he had some parts available to build one more unit but he had to locate them. Later this year when I was in Amsterdam he emailed me and said that he had found enough parts to build two more WA4s and that I could have one of them if I was still interested. I said YES! So he started the build in August of this year and I got a brand spanking new WA4 this last October. It is a completely new build! Thank you, Jack.
> 
> http://gallery.me.com/claytonjuan#100419
> 
> (Click on the photo for a larger version.)


 


  very nice. love the wedge shaped knob.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The OTL.  It *destroys* the WA6 in terms of bass response.... the poor Woo sounds pretty weak in the knees by comparison.  Not to say there is lots of actual bass in the music, which there isn't.  The proper tonal balance is there, the actual frequency extension is just much better as is the drive and sense of energy behind the notes.  There isn't really more bass, it just has more presence.


 

 This would please Silent One...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> About a year ago I asked Jack if he could build me a WA4 and he said that it was a discontinued model but that he had some parts available to build one more unit but he had to locate them. Later this year when I was in Amsterdam he emailed me and said that he had found enough parts to build two more WA4s and that I could have one of them if I was still interested. I said YES! So he started the build in August of this year and I got a brand spanking new WA4 this last October. It is a completely new build! Thank you, Jack.
> 
> http://gallery.me.com/claytonjuan#100419


 

 x2, thanks Jack!  To me, it looks like a project model sitting inside an Architect's office.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very nice. love the wedge shaped knob.


 


  So, Woo Audio understands aesthetics... _imagine that. _





  Hello, Dubstep Girl!


----------



## Rawrbington

oh my she's gorgeous


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So, Woo Audio understands aesthetics... _imagine that. _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  hi!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hi!!!!


 

 So, with 200 GB's of editing... what cans do you choose? Obviously, this selection will play to the strength of some those tracks, but which gets the nod tonight?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> About a year ago I asked Jack if he could build me a WA4 and he said that it was a discontinued model but that he had some parts available to build one more unit but he had to locate them. Later this year when I was in Amsterdam he emailed me and said that he had found enough parts to build two more WA4s and that I could have one of them if I was still interested. I said YES! So he started the build in August of this year and I got a brand spanking new WA4 this last October. It is a completely new build! Thank you, Jack.
> 
> http://gallery.me.com/claytonjuan#100419
> 
> (Click on the photo for a larger version.)


 


  Would it be possible to get a look inside those metal enclosures?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Would it be possible to get a look inside those metal enclosures?


 


_Get yo' Pop-corn ready!!!_


----------



## grokit

Quote:


warriorant said:


> Would it be possible to get a look inside those metal enclosures?


 
  Just click the link good sir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://gallery.me.com/claytonjuan#100419


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> Just click the link good sir
> 
> 
> ...


 


_Oh no, I must be mistaken... only Haagen-Dazs will do. Thanks, grokit!_


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> Just click the link good sir
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did I miss something?  Looks to be only the underside of the Woo.  I want to see the candy inside those metal boxes!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Did I miss something?  Looks to be only the underside of the Woo.  I want to see the candy inside those metal boxes!


 







 When I click on it I see no less than 13 thumbnails of gorgeous internal shots to be enlarged, here's but a sample:


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Did I miss something?  Looks to be only the underside of the Woo.  I want to see the candy inside those metal boxes!


 

 The metal boxes are potted inside. If you look at the internals you can see from the bottom of those metal boxes that they are filled with something like wax and the wires are coming out of the it and into the amp--and from where they go only Jack and savvy techs know.

   
  The lids on the boxes are sealed and some of the "wax" has seeped out and solidified. I wouldn't want to remove the lids. The solid ooze looks harmless and cool. Oozing, music boxes.


----------



## Leon83

Spotted this in the animated movie Monsters Inc.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





leon83 said:


> Spotted this in the animated movie Monsters Inc.


 
   
  very nice! good find.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Bass and Perch knobs. That's clever and funny!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The metal boxes are potted inside. If you look at the internals you can see from the bottom of those metal boxes that they are filled with something like wax and the wires are coming out of the it and into the amp--and from where they go only Jack and savvy techs know.
> 
> 
> The lids on the boxes are sealed and some of the "wax" has seeped out and solidified. I wouldn't want to remove the lids. The solid ooze looks harmless and cool. Oozing, music boxes.


 

 So in essence it is a secret as to what is inside them?  I thought maybe there were transformers or something in them.  I mean there are four of them what could possibly be inside them?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> When I click on it I see no less than 13 thumbnails of gorgeous internal shots to be enlarged, here's but a sample:


 
  Yeah but those are just photos of the underside unless I'm wrong, am I ?     What secrets are in those four metal boxes?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So in essence it is a secret as to what is inside them?  I thought maybe there were transformers or something in them.  I mean there are four of them what could possibly be inside them?


 

 They contain transformer potting compound. Buried in each of those boxes are transformers. (Could you pot chokes as well?--I don't know.)
   
  Here is a 6moons review on Woo Audio. Fascinating, isn't it? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wooaudio/5_2.html


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> They contain transformer potting compound. Buried in each of those boxes are transformers. (Could you pot chokes as well?--I don't know.)
> 
> Here is a 6moons review on Woo Audio. Fascinating, isn't it? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wooaudio/5_2.html


 


  Nice article!  I hadn't seen that one before.


----------



## john57

If you look at the WA4 page at: http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa4.html
  what in the six boxes are:
   

 Individual power supply transformer per channel
 Individual choke per channel
 high-end output transformer design
   
  Good work Clayton and was aware of the 6moons web site.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> About a year ago I asked Jack if he could build me a WA4 and he said that it was a discontinued model but that he had some parts available to build one more unit but he had to locate them. Later this year when I was in Amsterdam he emailed me and said that he had found enough parts to build two more WA4s and that I could have one of them if I was still interested. I said YES! So he started the build in August of this year and I got a brand spanking new WA4 this last October. It is a completely new build! Thank you, Jack.
> 
> http://gallery.me.com/claytonjuan#100419


 

 IMO no offense, but the WA4 that you received look liked very DIY looking and/or an amp that was begun at the first few years of Woo.
  
  Quote: 





			
				Clayton SF said:
			
		

> They contain transformer potting compound. Buried in each of those boxes are transformers. (Could you pot chokes as well?--I don't know.)
> 
> Here is a 6moons review on Woo Audio. Fascinating, isn't it? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wooaudio/5_2.html


 

 Very cool, nice find ill be reading it!


----------



## john57

I think that Clayton WA4 looks quite good and the workmanship is quite good, not a DIY look at all.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> IMO no offense, but the WA4 that you received look liked very DIY looking and/or an amp that was begun at the first few years of Woo.


 
  None taken. I am not an expert nor am I a novice at point-to-point wiring. I can't tell what looks like DIY and what doesn't. But here's another one of my amps that I've open up. It is not a Woo. It is by a very reputable amp maker also located in the U.S. What is your opinion on their point-to-point wiring skills?
   
  BTW, this amp sounds incredible.
   
  (Click on it for a bigger image.)


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> None taken. I am not an expert nor am I a novice at point-to-point wiring. I can't tell what looks like DIY and what doesn't. But here's another one of my amps that I've open up. It is not a Woo. It is by a very reputable amp maker also located in the U.S. What is your opinion on their point-to-point wiring skills?
> 
> BTW, this amp sounds incredible.


 

 I see what your getting at 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as my Woo statement went, i had meant the physical appearance of it, and not the soldering of it. Sorry if i didn't make my self clear (no pun intended)


----------



## danska

Well I missed my flight this morning, so I've got to spend some time today with my WA6. Picked up The Black Keys' new album "El Camino" and I am digging it!
   
  After some extended listening time I have a few initial impressions (Maxxed version w/Sophia Princess/GE 6DE7):
   
  This thing is silent. Absolutely no noise from the amp/tubes. The volume control is spot on, and offers really great adjustment. I came from a Little Dot MK III, which was downright noisy in comparison.
   
  Build quality is pretty amazing also, this thing is heavy to move around between my systems. It is a bit more "Titanium" colored than silver compared my Rega and Jolida gear. With the SP, it barely squeezes inside my shelf on my welded Target stand. Of course the glow of the SP is stunning, I've always had a thing for the old edison light bulbs!
   
  The sound profile is by no means tubey to my ears. I listen to a heavily modified EL34 based amp that you can tell is running EL34s, the Woo doesn't have the mid-range sweetness. It does have a very true and wonderful sound for stringed instruments and the piano.
   
  The downsides I'm having could be attributed to my Senn HD650s (or driver tubes). One of the weakest areas is the condensed sound stage, I feel like its smaller than other amps I've listened to. The upper frequencies are a bit slow (cymbals) and bright at times. Bass drums in particular aren't well pronounced, I'm not hearing the intimate detail I'm used to hearing over my B&W and Rega speakers. Not that I'm having any remorse, but I could see myself pulling the trigger on a SE if it came up. The LCD-2s would be my next can of choice, it doesn't seem like I'll have many options can wise using this amp? Correct me if I'm wrong here, I know the 800s and the T1s would work?
   
  I'm sure a lot more can be brought out by rolling those driver tubes. I've acquired sets of 6SN7 and 6F8G adapters. I have a set of "chrome dome" 6SN7s and a set of Tung-Sol BGRPs to throw in there when they arrive! I feel like this will make the most amount of difference when it comes down to the short-comings I've listed. I also have a EML 54UG coming my way, so I'll have some great tube rolling options.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> Well I missed my flight this morning, so I've got to spend some time today with my WA6. Picked up The Black Keys' new album "El Camino" and I am digging it!
> 
> After some extended listening time I have a few initial impressions (Maxxed version w/Sophia Princess/GE 6DE7):
> 
> ...


 

 Woah, you have to post impression on those bad boys on your WA6.  I never gets play with them when I had WA6


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





danska said:


> I'm sure a lot more can be brought out by rolling those driver tubes. I've acquired sets of 6SN7 and 6F8G adapters. I have a set of "chrome dome" 6SN7s and a set of Tung-Sol BGRPs to throw in there when they arrive! I feel like this will make the most amount of difference when it comes down to the short-comings I've listed. I also have a EML 54UG coming my way, so I'll have some great tube rolling options.


 


  The tubes you listed will open up the amp a lot.  I think you'll be pleased.  The 6SN7 does great things for the soundstage alone, especially compared to the 6DE7.  If you haven't you might want to try a 6EW7, which is drop-in for the amp and is also more open sounding.  Speed is not its forte though, unless you pair it with just the right rectifier.
   
  edit:  I forgot your amp might be the older version with the smaller diameter driver tube cutouts.  The 6EW7 is still possible here, because there was a thin bottle version of that tube made, but I don't believe they sound as good as the fat bottle versions do.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woah, you have to post impression on those bad boys on your WA6.  I never gets play with them when I had WA6


 


  Believe it or not the BGRP Tung Sol isn't wasted in a WA6.  They demonstrate a clear superiority over other tubes you can use in the socket, though as I've noted in the past the true Chrome Dome Sylvania 6SN7GT comes incredibly close to matching it IMO.


----------



## flaming_june

Maybe not but they are just hella expensive plus adapter.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





danska said:


> Well I missed my flight this morning, so I've got to spend some time today with my WA6. Picked up The Black Keys' new album "El Camino" and I am digging it!


 


  me too!
  great album.
  i've been listening to it almost nonstop since i got it


----------



## danska

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The tubes you listed will open up the amp a lot.  I think you'll be pleased.  The 6SN7 does great things for the soundstage alone, especially compared to the 6DE7.  If you haven't you might want to try a 6EW7, which is drop-in for the amp and is also more open sounding.  Speed is not its forte though, unless you pair it with just the right rectifier.
> 
> edit:  I forgot your amp might be the older version with the smaller diameter driver tube cutouts.  The 6EW7 is still possible here, because there was a thin bottle version of that tube made, but I don't believe they sound as good as the fat bottle versions do.


 


  Great to hear. I have a set of the chrome-domes already. A whole bunch of them were found in someones attic locally in the area a year ago. Got a pretty good deal on both sets of adapters and the Tung-Sols.
   
  I'm not sure of the actual age of my amp, other than it was sent back for upgrades a little less than two years ago.
   
  What rectifier goes well with the 6EW7? I was lucky enough to get a number of different ones with my amp, in fact I was going to try out the GZ32 tonight just to see the difference in sound.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> me too!
> great album.
> i've been listening to it almost nonstop since i got it


 

 Only listened to it once but it seems great! Being a vinyl first guy, I really appreciate how The Black Keys give you a CD along with your record. If only all those $50+ records I've purchased recently would have had the CD!!!
   
  The album was only $21, which I feel like is a great deal considering the combo, plus the poster of the vans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!
   
  Now I'm back to my early week purchase "Alison Krauss + Union Station Live". I know quite a transition, but what an amazing piece of work!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





danska said:


> What rectifier goes well with the 6EW7? I was lucky enough to get a number of different ones with my amp, in fact I was going to try out the GZ32 tonight just to see the difference in sound.


 


  I thought the Brimar 5R4GY had very good synergy with mine.  The 5R4 in general works well in the WA6, even the super cheap RCA ones.  The Brimar beats the pants off the US made tubes in resolution and control if you are willing to part with $50 for one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Well I missed my flight this morning, so I've got to spend some time today with my WA6. Picked up The Black Keys' new album "El Camino" and I am digging it!
> 
> After some extended listening time I have a few initial impressions (Maxxed version w/Sophia Princess/GE 6DE7):
> 
> ...


 

_The aforementioned EML Glass_ has been insured & shipped in the last hour. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Do take good care of it - as you roll rectifiers, I may wanna buy the glass back! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is because last night I found synergy between the TS-BGRP's & The EML 5U4G. But the fomer was only played for the very first time Monday night, so I wouldn't have known. My current 'Rec' of choice, the Mighty '596', is simply too much for the Tung-Sol's. 
   
  In fact, my system improved further by going < backwards? Yes, backwards! I went from playing the upgraded install of Lion (64-bit); Amarra; TS-BGRP & UEC USAF-596 to Snow Leopard (64-bit); Amarra; TS-BGRP & EML 5U4G and found dramatic improvement. After indicting the Tung-Sol's, Xcalibur255 rightfully guessed that something was wrong and he was right. Admittedly, I did offer that this indictment came from my preliminary round of listening and that further evaluation was still to come. 
   
  So, now the legendary Tung-Sol's revealed their potential if only for a night. All is not lost, however. jc9394 and Xcalibur255 can easily assist with finding me a replacement. In the meantime, the listening room sits dark... and idle. I returned my Power Conditioner for an exchange this evening as well.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In fact, my system improved further by going < backwards? Yes, backwards! I went from playing the upgraded install of Lion (64-bit); Amarra; TS-BGRP & UEC USAF-596 to Snow Leopard (64-bit); Amarra; TS-BGRP & EML 5U4G and found dramatic improvement.


 

  
  Interesting, how much of the improvement do you think was due to backing down from Lion to Snow Leopard?  Or where there other reasons for the downgrade and is just coincidental to your test?  I'm very curious and hopeful that the downgrade was incidental, btw.  I love Lion and would hate to have to roll back.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _The aforementioned EML Glass_ has been insured & shipped in the last hour.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  so its settled, the tungsol + eml are the best combo for wa6se?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so its settled, the tungsol + eml are the best combo for wa6se?


 







 Good morning Dubstep Girl... _not so fast!  _





  Since we now know in Computer Audio that everything matters, "Settled" could prove to be premature. In my particular setup, this combo returned the best sound for the TS-BGRP's with support from Snow Leopard booted into 64-bit kernel & extensions; Amarra & Pure Music. And with the latter (PM), hogging the audio drivers and outputting Nonmixable Streams to the DAC. 
   
  I could have went further in my evaluation but eventually it didn't make any sense to, since the EML Glass would no longer be in the mix, why bother?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Interesting, how much of the improvement do you think was due to backing down from Lion to Snow Leopard?  Or where there other reasons for the downgrade and is just coincidental to your test?  I'm very curious and hopeful that the downgrade was incidental, btw.  I love Lion and would hate to have to roll back.


 

 Greetings thrak ~
   
  I have mixed feelings about Lion. But since you love the new Cat, let me say that you don't have to roll back to use SL - option to Dual boot or run dual disks. I'm running dual booting disks, if I'm to have cake I'm gonna wanna eat it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my previous post (to Dubstep Girl) I mention that in Computer Audio everything matters. We have different Macs and that alone is enough to return a different sound, especially with how different they may be setup (Solid State Drive vs Hard Drive, extra RAM, reduced Services ect). 
   
  Switching OS'es was not huge but it was a minor improvement. Each time I tried something Monday night, the TS combo improved. But here's the thing, it's quite the opposite when my other drive tubes are installed - subtle, but Lion returned a more open sound and detail with both rectifiers (EML 5U4G/UEC USAF-596).  So, I point out my view carefully to show how changing one variable can change your listening preference. 
   
  At the end of the day, Computer Audio may not always be easy but it can be simple - either a configuration sounds good or it doesn't. It is often way too easy to find a winning tube combo and make a minor change and _then nails on the chalk board. _





 My mixed feelings on Lion stems from two basic things: many more processes are run in the background with this OS; Core Audio allows for Mixable Streams only.
   
  Apple is well known to have a Walled Garden. During the Snow Leopard era, music players for the Mac were being designed to "Hog" the audio drivers, with one or two players additionally having the ability to playback (output) Nonmixable Streams to the DAC. Apple doesn't like anyone circumventing their designs. So, dem hands got smacked with the release of Lion. The future may bring this capability back, but likely on Apple's terms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Right now, because I can't isolate stream outputs in Core Audio, I hear all kinds of inadvertent pops/clicks if I accidentally hit a key or something.


----------



## shipsupt

I agree with our Silent (Can a guy who is so active here really be considered Silent? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) friend...
  Best is hard to nail down so simply, and the 6SE is such a versatile amplifier.   We need to consider how you're feeding your Woo and what it's driving.  I find that I have many favorite drivers that I tend to pick depending on which headphones I am using.  There are many of us who have not gone down the 6SN7 route and we have our favorites.

  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so its settled, the tungsol + eml are the best combo for wa6se?


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings thrak ~
> 
> I have mixed feelings about Lion. But since you love the new Cat, let me say that you don't have to roll back to use SL - option to Dual boot or run dual disks. I'm running dual booting disks, if I'm to have cake I'm gonna wanna eat it...
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks.  That makes more sense.  I've have read about many folks having similar issues due to background procs, etc. but I have yet to encounter them.  Can I ask which Mac you use?  I am using a MacPro (dual quad-core) with 8GB of RAM and my iTunes db lives on an external Drobo S connected via eSATA.  The Drobo is a bit slow to start up but once it's up, it just rolls.  The key for me is that this is also my main workstation and many, many things run simultaneously 24x7.  I am happy that I have not run into this but still curious as to why not.  Does the problem manifest itself in other ways than the pops/clicks you described above?
   
  FWIW, SQ improves dramatically when playing from RAM with Amarra.  I just haven't run into the non-musical noises problem.
   
  Re: Hog Mode - doesn't PM support this in Lion?  I could've swore I tried it when I auditioned it a few weeks ago.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Thanks.  That makes more sense.  I've have read about many folks having similar issues due to background procs, etc. but I have yet to encounter them.  Can I ask which Mac you use?  I am using a MacPro (dual quad-core) with 8GB of RAM and my iTunes db lives on an external Drobo S connected via eSATA.  The Drobo is a bit slow to start up but once it's up, it just rolls.  The key for me is that this is also my main workstation and many, many things run simultaneously 24x7.  I am happy that I have not run into this but still curious as to why not.  Does the problem manifest itself in other ways than the pops/clicks you described above?
> 
> FWIW, SQ improves dramatically when playing from RAM with Amarra.  I just haven't run into the non-musical noises problem.
> 
> Re: Hog Mode - doesn't PM support this in Lion?  I could've swore I tried it when I auditioned it a few weeks ago.


 


  Thanks for allowing me to add clarity to my previous statements. Yes, Hog mode is still supported but it is "Integer Mode Streaming" support that was dropped by Apple's release of Lion. Which is interesting because you cannot have Integer Mode support without Hog Mode.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My DAC, external HDD and USB keyboard & mouse do not share the same BUS. So, the inadvertent keyboard sounds are a bit of a mystery.
   
  Dual Quad Core.... eSata? Speed kills! I'm currently running: Mac mini; SSD; 8GB; FireWire HDD; Amarra Mini; Pure Music; Audirvana Plus; some background processes stopped! What's more, the different models have different EMI/RFI specs - the FCC places a stricter requirement on Notebooks than the mini. Maybe even other desktop configs, though I'm not sure about those. The mini's have a beautiful form factor, but it takes significantly more effort (tweaking) to make them match their siblings as a transport.
   
  Next up for me: Auditioning JPLAY on my PC; Auditioning MPD/Linux on my PC. My Mac has always been my primary source for the Woo. My upcoming auditions could shake things up a bit.


----------



## Silent One

Rectifiers --
   
  Those of you using TS-BGRP's as drive tubes, what is your rectifier of choice for the pairing?


----------



## deniall83

Looking at setting up a sweet headphone rig. What Woo amp would you guys suggest and why?


----------



## shipsupt

Any idea what headphones you plan to pair with it?
  
  Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> Looking at setting up a sweet headphone rig. What Woo amp would you guys suggest and why?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Rectifiers --
> 
> Those of you using TS-BGRP's as drive tubes, what is your rectifier of choice for the pairing?


 


  It is a toss up between 596 and EML 5U4G, depends on what my mood and music I'm in for.


----------



## deniall83

Not entirely sure what headphones yet. I would say they will be open back, maybe LCD or HE6 etc..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is a toss up between 596 and EML 5U4G, depends on what my mood and music I'm in for.


 

 I would think the use of Power tubes would have an influence here perhaps, or would it? Not that I have that option. The EML got away yesterday. The '596' appears to be too much for the TS-BRGP's. Seeking a mellower and inexpensive Rec to try out.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> Not entirely sure what headphones yet. I would say they will be open back, maybe LCD or HE6 etc..


 

 I will not recommend HE6 unless you are going to get a WA5/LE


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I would think the use of Power tubes would have an influence here perhaps, or would it? Not that I have that option...


 


  I do prefer the 596 with live and the EML with studio recordings.


----------



## deniall83

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will not recommend HE6 unless you are going to get a WA5/LE


 


 That hard to drive hey? What about LCD paired with WA6-SE or WA2?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> That hard to drive hey? What about LCD paired with WA6-SE or WA2?


 


  They are very hard to drive.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do prefer the 596 with live and the EML with studio recordings.


 

  
  You might be on to something...


----------



## shipsupt

I can speak for the 6SE, very nice with the LCD when you get the tubes right.  It's a very versatile amp, so you'll have lots of options for other headphones as well.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> That hard to drive hey? What about LCD paired with WA6-SE or WA2?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You might be on to something...


 

  
  Maybe just me but I think the instrument's separation is more noticeable on 596 while the EML gives better dynamic.  Now, let's talk about beta22 shall we?  That thing is crazy good with LCD-2.  Sorry Woo owners...
   
Lately, I really prefer the Marantz I got with HD800 too.  The WA22 is taking a long vacation to Hawaii.
   
I'm going to power up the Woo tonight, it is cold here and nothing beats tube glowing on a cold night.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Maybe just me but I think the instrument's separation is more noticeable on 596 while the EML gives better dynamic.  Now, let's talk about beta22 shall we?  That thing is crazy good with LCD-2.  Sorry Woo owners...
> 
> Lately, I really prefer the Marantz I got with HD800 too.  The WA22 is taking a long vacation to Hawaii.
> 
> I'm going to power up the Woo tonight, it is cold here and nothing beats tube glowing on a cold night.


 

 The '596' returns far greater detail, separation, dynamics, soundstage and expansion with all of my tubes... save the Tung-Sol. It might just be a case of the tubes needing play-in before coming fully on song. But right now they're a mess! Details are obscured, notes lacking refinement on decay and finish. And it is if there's a very light veil between my ears and Denon's. 
   
  Even if things improve, and I believe they will, the EML Glass made a better showing right outta the case. And hadn't seen action for a couple of months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Love the fine print, by the way! Hmmm, if only we were neighbors...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The '596' returns far greater detail, separation, dynamics, soundstage and expansion with all of my tubes... save the Tung-Sol. It might just be a case of the tubes needing play-in before coming fully on song. But right now they're a mess! Details are obscured, notes lacking refinement on decay and finish. And it is if there's a very light veil between my ears and Denon's.
> 
> Even if things improve, and I believe they will, the EML Glass made a better showing right outta the case. And hadn't seen action for a couple of months.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Would love to be your neighbor, tried couple times but simply can't afford San Francisco.  Not like I can afford Boston too...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Would love to be your neighbor, tried couple times but simply can't afford San Francisco.  Not like I can afford Boston too...


 


  You know jc9394, I was thinking - wrongly, rightly... but at least I am thinking, that the TS-BGRP & USAF-596 pairing might be a case of two tubes fighting. Maybe, they share in all of the same wonderful attributes and is fighting the other to have their own sound reign supreme. So, instead of the pair being a compliment to each other they are fighting for the lead... dominance if you would.
   
  Nothing like food to bring clarity and peace of mind to one's soul. Will have another look tonight after dinner.


----------



## jc9394

How man hours you hav with the TS?  I did not noticed that with TS 6F8G and 596, I will give the TS 6SN7 BGRP a try tonight since I have not powered on the Woo yet.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Rectifiers --
> 
> Those of you using TS-BGRP's as drive tubes, what is your rectifier of choice for the pairing?


 

 GZ37 and EML 5U4G. Still waiting for Glenn's adapters to arrive so I can try the 596 (they have been shipped).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Maybe just me but I think the instrument's separation is more noticeable on 596 while the EML gives better dynamic.  Now, let's talk about beta22 shall we?  That thing is crazy good with LCD-2.  Sorry Woo owners...
> 
> Lately, I really prefer the Marantz I got with HD800 too.  The WA22 is taking a long vacation to Hawaii.
> 
> I'm going to power up the Woo tonight, it is cold here and nothing beats tube glowing on a cold night.


 

 I had a similar reaction when I dusted off my Yamaha CR2020. I was using it exclusively for about 2 weeks, then I started getting ear fatigue. Since then I haven't turned it on (CR2020).
   
  Something about Solid State I guess. There's just so much power coming through the headphones, unlike the WA22. Hopefully, this won't be the case with your Marantz.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I had a similar reaction when I dusted off my Yamaha CR2020. I was using it exclusively for about 2 weeks, then I started getting ear fatigue. Since then I haven't turned it on (CR2020).
> 
> Something about Solid State I guess. There's just so much power coming through the headphones, unlike the WA22. Hopefully, this won't be the case with your Marantz.


 


   
  It is still too early for me to make a conclusion on the Marantz but it seems very good.  Not sure about the Yammy but Marantz is very forgiving.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How man hours you hav with the TS?  I did not noticed that with TS 6F8G and 596, I will give the TS 6SN7 BGRP a try tonight since I have not powered on the Woo yet.


 


  Seven hours. I know  I know........... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  patience, Silent One, patience. Usually, I won't even start listening critically to a new tube until 100 hours. But two things helped throw the baby out with the bath water: the EML's improvement; remembering how much I paid.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Seven hours. I know  I know...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Patience buddy, you need to give it 300+ hours.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Patience buddy, you need to give it 300+ hours.


 


  Pre-owned, so they're in need of Play-in time only... a steady dose of current flow. They should get themselves right much sooner. But the EML's show that it is the pairing making the difference. Although additional hours can only help. Tonight, I'm going to resurrect the stock Rec just to see what direction the TS's will go. It could provide clues...


----------



## shipsupt

X3... My vintage rig is usually my choice when I reach for an ortho, the Pioneer SX make's 'em sing, but I don't want my Woo getting to jealous so I let it play too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I had a similar reaction when I dusted off my Yamaha CR2020. I was using it exclusively for about 2 weeks, then I started getting ear fatigue. Since then I haven't turned it on (CR2020).
> 
> Something about Solid State I guess. There's just so much power coming through the headphones, unlike the WA22. Hopefully, this won't be the case with your Marantz.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> X3... My vintage rig is usually my choice when I reach for an ortho, the Pioneer SX make's 'em sing, but I don't want my Woo getting to jealous so I let it play too!


 






  Hmmm, let's see.... same LCD-2.... same SX-650.... yup, they sing alright! Me and Rachel both find the Bass on the SX to be Yum-o! Did you read your newsletter from HDTracks today? They released Stevie Wonder's 1973 LP "Innervisions" @ 24/96 kHz. Since Stevie owns all of his own Masters, he had to deliver the tapes to the Label in order for a direct transfer to take place. I can't wait to make the purchase.
   
  My Woo is so good to me. Time to pay it back!


----------



## IndieScent

Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> That hard to drive hey? What about LCD paired with WA6-SE or WA2?


 


  if you aiming for ortho WA6SE or WA22 is the safer bet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *thrak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Does the problem manifest itself in other ways than the pops/clicks you described above?


 


  Update:
   
  It was just last week I dropped in to post about those of us who have Amarra-Pure Music-Audirvana-Fidelia-Decibel ect should "Restart" if program player hopping in-session. Well, regarding my Pops & Clicks, someone (not quite sure who) got caught not "Restarting" between hopping from player to player. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But then, I remember the ol' computer mantra "When in doubt, reboot!" So, no more Pops & Clicks tonight. Doesn't this thread enjoy happy endings?


----------



## GouldPhoto

We interrupt this thread for a very important announcement.
   
  The WA6SE has been shipped
   
  Now I must wait until next week for it to arrive. Things to do... setup listening area... clean off comfy chair... decide what to listen to first...
   
  The excitement is building.
  My wife wants to hear this setup to see why I spent this money, I know she will enjoy the sound and probably not give the cans back.
   
  You may now resume this thread.


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> We interrupt this thread for a very important announcement.
> 
> The WA6SE has been shipped
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome! Hope you love it as much as everyone else!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





indiescent said:


> if you aiming for ortho WA6SE or WA22 is the safer bet.


 


   
  LCD-2 is fine with WA22 but not the HE6.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Awesome! Hope you love it as much as everyone else!


 


  x2!
   
  Currently in-session with Stevie Wonder on my_ WA 6 Special Edition..._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> X3... My vintage rig is usually my choice when I reach for an ortho, the Pioneer SX make's 'em sing, but I don't want my Woo getting to jealous so I let it play too!


 


   
  Same here, powered on the WA22.  Gotta love the tube glows...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> x2!
> 
> Currently in-session with Stevie Wonder on my_ WA 6 Special Edition..._


 


   
  Wow, 3am.  You are dedicated.


----------



## IndieScent

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> LCD-2 is fine with WA22 but not the HE6.


 


  I wasnt really implying HE6 will do good on those 2 amps. I do imply it to the ortho on the post I quote


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow, 3am.  You are dedicated.


 







  But doesn't it say on the Woo Audio website under FAQs _"Never and never leave your amp on unattended..." ?_ That's right, I got these Tung-Sol's putting in work..._ "Harder!"_


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But doesn't it say on the Woo Audio website under FAQs _"Never and never leave your amp on unattended..." ?_ That's right, I got these Tung-Sol's putting in work..._ "Harder!"_


 


  I heard you, I was listening into 1am-ish too, once you get into the mood and queued the right music it is addicting.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What's more, the different models have different EMI/RFI specs - the FCC places a stricter requirement on Notebooks than the mini. Maybe even other desktop configs, though I'm not sure about those. The mini's have a beautiful form factor, but it takes significantly more effort (tweaking) to make them match their siblings as a transport.


 
   
  Interesting, I wasn't aware of this bit and could very well be the source of issues.  I'll have to keep my out for this.  Trying it on my own mini will be too much of a hassle so I'll have to speculate for now   thanks!


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Update:
> 
> It was just last week I dropped in to post about those of us who have Amarra-Pure Music-Audirvana-Fidelia-Decibel ect should "Restart" if program player hopping in-session. Well, regarding my Pops & Clicks, someone (not quite sure who) got caught not "Restarting" between hopping from player to player.
> 
> ...


 


  happy endings indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  glad you figured it out.  and now that you mention it, someone here (also unknown) forgot to do the same when comparing Amarra to PM.  this resulted in the most horrible shrieking diginoise in the right channel.  after freaking out a bit i remembered the warning.  noise stopped as soon as i quit iTunes


----------



## thrak

not to hog the thread (i seem to be out-of-phase with most of you in terms of HF reading) but i have a question.  is there a preferred vendor/outlet for the TS-BGRPs?  you guys have tempted me to try it so i've been looking around but i see a huge variation in prices out there.  considering the nature of these things this makes me nervous.  i would hate to pay too much for a subpar set.  I'm sure you understand


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





thrak said:


> not to hog the thread (i seem to be out-of-phase with most of you in terms of HF reading) but i have a question.  is there a preferred vendor/outlet for the TS-BGRPs?  you guys have tempted me to try it so I've been looking around but i see a huge variation in prices out there.  considering the nature of these things this makes me nervous.  i would hate to pay too much for a subpar set.  I'm sure you understand


 


 Thrak, these are selling for $500.00 (NOS), and higher. I don't think you'll find a preferred vendor/outlet anymore. I have an extra pair I'll sell for the same price (purchased from a reputable supplier). PM me if you're interested.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Interesting, I wasn't aware of this bit and could very well be the source of issues.  I'll have to keep my out for this.  Trying it on my own mini will be too much of a hassle so I'll have to speculate for now   thanks!


 


  The Elephant in the room --
   
  Many of us will use enormous effort with tremendous focus on getting our systems dialed-in just so. Yet, seated comfortably inside our listening rooms is EMI/RFI. The source and the amount will vary, but often a big contributor of this stuff is the everyday household appliances and electronics we already have. Complicating matters is the amount of metal one might have inside the room or nearby. Think broadcasting - this stuff gets airborne, redirected... and into your system.
   
  What lies beneath --
   
  Some will stand firm and say their high-end rig is fine; highly resolving. And demand I offer proof!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In this case, what's often missed is the knowledge of knowing how it would compare to an improved version of itself. Skill, knowledge or both. It's akin to a man or woman who understands their body type and happens upon the perfect fit from an Off-the-rack selection. The in-house person doing altercations agrees. And you, with your skill and knowledge as a Tailor, need only glance over at the person and suggest _"Yes, it looks good on you indeed. But I can make you look fantastique!"_
   
  So, as good or great as many think their systems may sound, there's hidden bonuses (potentially) to be had once the environment is evaluated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And no, this isn't directed at you, thrak, but an opportunity for discussion to all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To be fair, some have better situations than others. But an audit could turn up surprises...


----------



## danska

Quote: 





thrak said:


> not to hog the thread (i seem to be out-of-phase with most of you in terms of HF reading) but i have a question.  is there a preferred vendor/outlet for the TS-BGRPs?  you guys have tempted me to try it so i've been looking around but i see a huge variation in prices out there.  considering the nature of these things this makes me nervous.  i would hate to pay too much for a subpar set.  I'm sure you understand


 


  I'm wondering if any of the other 6F8G's are up to par with the Tung-Sols. I paid a pretty penny for mine, and I've seen some other pairs go for very reasonable prices (Zenith black glass for $66 yesterday). I guess next week I can give y'all an idea of how the EML 5U4G and S.P. with 6SN7s and 6F8Gs sound compare to where I'm at today.

 After spending $500 in tubes in the last two weeks, I think I need a break for a little bit


----------



## danska

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Elephant in the room --
> 
> Many of us will use enormous effort with tremendous focus on getting our systems dialed-in just so. Yet, seated comfortably inside our listening rooms is EMI/RFI. The source and the amount will vary, but often a big contributor of this stuff is the everyday household appliances and electronics we already have. Complicating matters is the amount of metal one might have inside the room or nearby. Think broadcasting - this stuff gets airborne, redirected... and into your system.
> 
> ...


 

 Good thing you aren't a Linn LP12 owner. You would be sitting there for hours and hours dialing that suspension just so! And then less than 6 months from then you would do it again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once my cartridge comes back from re-tip I'll be redoing mine for the 4th time in two years! Not to say this isn't worth it, but it can be a bit tedious. On the other hand I can't imagine dialing in a digital source and being totally happy with it. I still haven't heard digital sources live up to analog ones, with the exception of the $10k plus dollar Linn music servers. By no means am I starting a debate, I just think a LOMC with high quality vinyl pressing is something hard to replicate digitally. Keep in mind this is coming from someone that has dedicated a great deal of money into a table/arm/cartridge/phono stage etc. Its all big dollars in the end, whichever direction you choose (not to mention the outrageous cost of good wax).
   
  If I owned my current house, I would be spending more money on my listening room than anything else. Since I do listen to speakers a lot, I can tell you room positioning and dampening, etc... really makes a GIANT difference.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Good thing you aren't a Linn LP12 owner. You would be sitting there for hours and hours dialing that suspension just so! And then less than 6 months from then you would do it again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I agree. But these are exciting times for Digital when one considers the speed at which advances are made and the speed at which the "Pay to play" factor is dropping. I long to have a more vinyl presence inside the room. But with limited funds, I can simply do so much more with so much less. This is my stance until I can do better.
   
  Last night, I rolled in the stock rectifier just to see the direction it'd take. That had to be the shortest Roll for me on record - I simply walked out after a few verses; returned 59 minutes later to shut the amp off.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> I'm wondering if any of the other 6F8G's are up to par with the Tung-Sols. I paid a pretty penny for mine, and I've seen some other pairs go for very reasonable prices (Zenith black glass for $66 yesterday). I guess next week I can give y'all an idea of how the EML 5U4G and S.P. with 6SN7s and 6F8Gs sound compare to where I'm at today.
> 
> After spending $500 in tubes in the last two weeks, I think I need a break for a little bit


 


  Your recent shopping spree for tubes have audio retailers excited and encouraged everywhere!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> not to hog the thread (i seem to be out-of-phase with most of you in terms of HF reading) but i have a question.  is there a preferred vendor/outlet for the TS-BGRPs?  you guys have tempted me to try it so i've been looking around but i see a huge variation in prices out there.  considering the nature of these things this makes me nervous.  i would hate to pay too much for a subpar set.  I'm sure you understand


 


_The legendary Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates..._
   
_... _I only have a pair and cannot afford backup. If I should break one or have one fail, I shudder to think... the kind of words that would come out of my mouth... and the number of those chosen words that would stream out of my mouth... while en route to the basement to sit in solitude.




  But since I lack a foul mouth, I'd likely just swap the 1949 Ray's back in and then opt for listening to the Vintage Iron for a couple of weeks to get rid of the bad taste left in my memory.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well now, a much much better rendering...


 


  That looks gross. Not nearly as sexy as the HD800's.


----------



## Silent One

_(Silent One stops... realizes what separates this thread from others on Head-Fi... and resumes sipping super premium egg nog over ice... with a straw.)_


----------



## Rawrbington

i've got a ps audio digital link 3 on the way!
  hooray!
  hope it sounds nice with my wa2.


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> The Elephant in the room --
> 
> Many of us will use enormous effort with tremendous focus on getting our systems dialed-in just so. Yet, seated comfortably inside our listening rooms is EMI/RFI.




Sounds like LessLoss Blackbody time!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i've got a ps audio digital link 3 on the way!
> hooray!
> hope it sounds nice with my wa2.


 


  You've been making some nice year-end moves... congrats!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Sounds like LessLoss Blackbody time!


 







  The rich get richer...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I agree. But these are exciting times for Digital when one considers the speed at which advances are made and the speed at which the "Pay to play" factor is dropping. I long to have a more vinyl presence inside the room. But with limited funds, I can simply do so much more with so much less. This is my stance until I can do better.
> 
> Last night, I rolled in the stock rectifier just to see the direction it'd take. That had to be the shortest Roll for me on record - I simply walked out after a few verses; returned 59 minutes later to shut the amp off.


 

 Darn! back in March I gave away all my vinyl (except some Miles and some Coltrane which I cannot play but I wanted to keep).  Had I known you then I would have shipped it all off to you. It was just sitting around for years moving from CT to MN to AZ. can't believe I carted it all over the place.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Darn! back in March I gave away all my vinyl (except some Miles and some Coltrane which I cannot play but I wanted to keep).  Had I known you then I would have shipped it all off to you. It was just sitting around for years moving from CT to MN to AZ. can't believe I carted it all over the place.


 


  I appreciate your thoughts - I find them to be as rich and bountiful as the collection itself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What Brotherhood!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I long to have a more vinyl presence inside the room. But with limited funds, I can simply do so much more with so much less.


 

 I enjoy vinyl, including the ritual, but given that most modern vinyl is sourced from digital files it's pretty hard to get too excited.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i've got a ps audio digital link 3 on the way!


 

 Nice choice.  PSA equipment typically has a rich, energetic sound.


----------



## jerico

wapiti said:


> I enjoy vinyl, including the ritual, but given that most modern vinyl is sourced from digital files it's pretty hard to get too excited.




True, but there's so much cheap secondhand stuff out there to enjoy, if one doesn't listen solely to modern releases. I tend to buy new music - or stuff I've never listened to before - digitally, and save vinyl for old favorites.

Yesterday I had my table connected to my 22/LCD2 for a few hours - it was heavenly. It's usually in my speaker rig, but the cable running form my phono pre is long - long enough to disconnect it from the main rig and reroute it into the bedroom where the Woo is. Vinyl + tubes gets my knees wobbly!


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Elephant in the room --
> 
> Many of us will use enormous effort with tremendous focus on getting our systems dialed-in just so. Yet, seated comfortably inside our listening rooms is EMI/RFI. The source and the amount will vary, but often a big contributor of this stuff is the everyday household appliances and electronics we already have. Complicating matters is the amount of metal one might have inside the room or nearby. Think broadcasting - this stuff gets airborne, redirected... and into your system.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, high-end audio has always been a battle between SQ and convenience, at least for me.  I usually try to strike a balance and will push SQ as far as i can but convenience always wins in the end.  I am sure my rig could be made to sound better but is it really doable in a real world sense or even worth it?  For example, my current space is not optimal for audio in terms of geometry.  Could it be made optimal?  Sure, but at what cost, both monetary and psychological?  So I try to work within it's constraints which leads me to a headphone rig rather than a speaker rig.  Now, that is not a total loss since headphone rigs have certain advantages over speaker rigs.  Then we get to other questions: power, EMI, physical positioning, etc.  My man-cave is also my office and as such it is a tangle of EMI of all kinds (several computers, monitors, several wifi access points, controllers, ethernet switches, storage arrays, giant tv, fridge, wireless phones, cell phones, furnace, ac unit, etc.).  As you can imagine this is a power issue as well.  Not to mention that I am also a smoker which brings with it other challenges of convenience (think dust covers).  
   
  In the end, I can't really get rid of these things (they pay for my audio habit  ).  The only solution is to segregate them and spread out to more rooms but as anyone with a wife knows, that is easier dreamt of than done.  So I do what I can while staying within those limits.

  
  Quote: 





danska said:


> Good thing you aren't a Linn LP12 owner. You would be sitting there for hours and hours dialing that suspension just so! And then less than 6 months from then you would do it again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Which leads me directly into this.  I've never been much of a vinyl lover.  Even back in the day when it was our only choice for great SQ.  I always found it too inconvenient: album storage, record cleaning, super-delicate gear, etc.  Not to mention the expense.  And while I am a sucker for some zen-like ritual, vinyl is too much ritual imo.  I have always had a need to listen _now_ and vinyl is just not conducive for that.  I was one of the early adopters of CD for two reasons: instant gratification through the elimination of the burden of vinyl and the future promise of digital.  I, for one, feel that we are reaching the point were that promise is real; finally.  And the fact is that even lowly PCM 16/44 is a much better format technically than vinyl ever was.  The crux of the biscuit is in the execution of the recording, mastering.  A crappy recording is a crappy recording and no amount of vinyl will ever make it otherwise.  People tend to forget that vinyl and cd are mere formats (or containers) and what you put in them is what matters.
   
  But I don't want to turn this into an indictment of vinyl or detour the thread into another pointless discussion of format v format.  I understand (and appreciate) the allure of vinyl and if it was less inconvenient I probably would have a rig myself.  I am just pointing out my position relative to convenience which dovetailed nicely with my response above.  In other words, this is yet another example of decisions we have to make regarding our rigs and how different folks have different thresholds and preferences.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I enjoy vinyl, including the ritual, but given that most modern vinyl is sourced from digital files it's pretty hard to get too excited.


 


  My collection was from 1964 up to the first release of the CD in 82?   Some albums thereafter but more CD's.  Then around 1989 I met Mike Moffit and I purchased his Theta Ps Pre DAC Demo from him and pursued CD's since then.   I never used the vinyl again. It got boxed up and moved with me everywhere until this March. When I decided to shed many things that I was just hoarding away.  I always kept them in a good environment in a closet in the house so they were never subjected to extreme cold or heat.  I love vinyl but my ear cannot take even the smallest grove noise.  Even today people send me files transferred from their vinyl collection and if I even hear one little click or pop no matter ho small I trash the files.  I just can't take it.   There were too many to really sell and ship on ebay so they just languished in my closet.  Then a younger guy stopped by and bought my Theta DsPre & Theta transport, my Krell, my Classe, my entire speaker rig and mentioned he was just discovering vinyl for the first time and I knew the collection had found a new home and would languish no more.  Afterwards I turned my sights towards headphones and found everyone here.  
   
  You all might want to kick me out of here though because it looks like I'm about to order a Liquid Fire...


----------



## Austin Morrow

The WA2 and the WA6SE are just _so sexy_..... hahahaha!


----------



## Edoardo

Hello everybody, 
   
  I am not a WooAudio owner yet, I would like to ask if anyone of you has experience of the WooAudio amps like the WA2* as* preamps, and if can make any comparison with other Audiophile or Professional tube preamps! 
   
  Thank you very much!!!


----------



## GouldPhoto

I am officially a Woo owner now.
   
  After a walk in the park with my wife this morning, we were discussing if we should go out for lunch or wait for FedEX to arrive. Before I could answer a van pulled up in front of the house and the driver was carrying a box labeled WOO AUDIO. What perfect timing.
   
  Easy decision now, off to lunch.
   
  Back home it was time to assemble the new listening area in the bedroom. Old component rack moved in, power conditioner, DAC, cables, excitement.
   
  Everything connected, in walks the wife... "WOW that looks really nice". I said, wait until you hear it.
   
  Power on, wait a good thirty minutes to shake off the chill from shipping.
   
  Pull up foobar and play Patricia Barber - Companion - The Beat Goes On, the HD-650's officially sound wonderful. I start bouncing around the collection and end up on Alison Krauss, bliss. It has been 3 hours of listening now and I am very happy with this purchase.
   
  Once agan, I would like to thank everyone in this thread for their valuable insight and reviews leading to me making this amp decision.
   
  Obligatory product shot


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> I am officially a Woo owner now.
> 
> After a walk in the park with my wife this morning, we were discussing if we should go out for lunch or wait for FedEX to arrive. Before I could answer a van pulled up in front of the house and the driver was carrying a box labeled WOO AUDIO. What perfect timing.
> 
> ...


 







 I'm nearly as excited over the _acceptance_ you got, as I am of the product you got. Your opening Chapter reads quite nicely this weekend!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I enjoy vinyl, including the ritual, but given that most modern vinyl is sourced from digital files it's pretty hard to get too excited.


 

 True. Plus, a lot of the material gets slung back and forth (conversion) to make corrections; explore ideas.The keyword here is _modern_. There are some gems to be had before 1960, that sonically could wipe the floor with some of the modern non-audiophile pressings. What I want is more choice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My collection was from 1964 up to the first release of the CD in 82?   Some albums thereafter but more CD's.  Then around 1989 I met Mike Moffit and I purchased his Theta Ps Pre DAC Demo from him and pursued CD's since then.   I never used the vinyl again. It got boxed up and moved with me everywhere until this March. When I decided to shed many things that I was just hoarding away.  I always kept them in a good environment in a closet in the house so they were never subjected to extreme cold or heat.  I love vinyl but my ear cannot take even the smallest grove noise.  Even today people send me files transferred from their vinyl collection and if I even hear one little click or pop no matter ho small I trash the files.  I just can't take it.   There were too many to really sell and ship on ebay so they just languished in my closet.  Then a younger guy stopped by and bought my Theta DsPre & Theta transport, my Krell, my Classe, my entire speaker rig and mentioned he was just discovering vinyl for the first time and I knew the collection had found a new home and would languish no more.  Afterwards I turned my sights towards headphones and found everyone here.
> 
> You all might want to kick me out of here though because it looks like I'm about to order a Liquid Fire...


 


  Yeah, I dislike surface and groove noise too. But, since there are so many titles available to me in that format that I want to listen to, versus the slim pickings of hi-rez downloads, ideally I want to simply rip/transfer the vinyl digitally. If I had the proper budget I could easily be ceremonious. Lacking that, I'll convert my own hi-rez material. I see a Metric Halo or possibly a Korg in my future.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah, I dislike surface and groove noise too. But, since there are so many titles available to me in that format that I want to listen to, versus the slim pickings of hi-rez downloads, ideally I want to simply rip/transfer the vinyl digitally. If I had the proper budget I could easily be ceremonious. Lacking that, I'll convert my own hi-rez material. I see a Metric Halo or possibly a Korg in my future.


 


  well I guess I'm persona non grata here now since I ordered a Liquid fire which has officially put an end to my hunt for a tube based amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> well I guess I'm persona non grata here now since I ordered a Liquid fire which has officially put an end to my hunt for a tube based amp.


 






  In my view, I see two kinds of seating here at the 'Unite' table - Woo owners taking their rightful place and those making valued contributions Woo Audio amps or no. My rig would have been adrift at sea had it not been for 2359glenn's participation, leading me into safe harbor. And your presence here as an industry veteran is priceless.


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of participation, it's now come to my attention we have a "M.M.M.I.A." (mikemalter missing in action).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully, you're enjoying your Woo and increased productivity. But when you've the chance, please leave us a sign or trace that all is well in Woo-dom!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Speaking of participation, it's now come to my attention we have a "M.M.M.I.A." (mikemalter missing in action).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I know I was sending PMs back and forth with him then all of a sudden no response.  Hope nothing bad happened.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I know I was sending PMs back and forth with him then all of a sudden no response.  Hope nothing bad happened.


 


  I do know post Hawaii that his commitments picked up. I'd like to believe he's just fine.... _and busy. _


----------



## WindyCityCy

This may already have been posted here or somewhere else on head-fi but the W4S Music Server pre-order page is up.  I'm really interested in this ...
   
  http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/620191


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> This may already have been posted here or somewhere else on head-fi but the W4S Music Server pre-order page is up.  I'm really interested in this ...
> 
> http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/620191


 






 Toys from W4S! Hmmm, now where have I seen this implementation before.... ah yes, the Vortexbox! Since I know you're gonna get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and deservedly so), perhaps you can bring it to the next area meet.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> This may already have been posted here or somewhere else on head-fi but the W4S Music Server pre-order page is up.  I'm really interested in this ...
> 
> http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/620191


 
  Good thing I grabbed my amp today before you posted that!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> I am officially a Woo owner now.
> 
> After a walk in the park with my wife this morning, we were discussing if we should go out for lunch or wait for FedEX to arrive. Before I could answer a van pulled up in front of the house and the driver was carrying a box labeled WOO AUDIO. What perfect timing.
> 
> ...


 


  Awesome! I have that exact one coming in January!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> This may already have been posted here or somewhere else on head-fi but the W4S Music Server pre-order page is up.


 

 Nice looking. Tidy.
   
  Perhaps I am confused, but this appears to be a single 1 TB drive, an optical drive, WiFi, a bit of software and digital out for $2k?  Why is this appealing at this price?
   
  What can it do that a $350 Windows laptop and an external drive cannot do?  Other than brainless setup?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Nice looking. Tidy.
> 
> Perhaps I am confused, but this appears to be a single 1 TB drive, an optical drive, WiFi, a bit of software and digital out for $2k?  Why is this appealing at this price?
> 
> What can it do that a $350 Windows laptop and an external drive cannot do?  Other than brainless setup?


 


  Trend --
   
  What a few small vendors, along with some Computer Audiophiles are doing is using VortexBox on older unused or auxillary computers:
   
http://vortexbox.org/about/
   





  DIY and save huge!


----------



## Rawrbington

is there a noticable increase in sound quality from a 16/44.1 flac to a 24/96 flac?
  is flac the file type that hdtracks uses?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Trend --
> 
> What a few small vendors, along with some Computer Audiophiles are doing is using VortexBox on older unused or auxillary computers:
> 
> ...


 

 That is an interesting thought.  Where did you find that info?  Over at Computer Audiophile?  Not quite sure if I understand what it is about yet but I'll give a deeper read.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> is there a noticable increase in sound quality from a 16/44.1 flac to a 24/96 flac?
> is flac the file type that hdtracks uses?


 


  Sound quality will be recording dependent. And Studios, Labels and Production houses don't exactly make provenance easy. It is possible that one day/night you are shopping at HDTracks and found the track you were looking for. Next, you try to determine which resolution and would the higher one be worth the premium - 16/44.1 vs 24/96.
   
  Now, at 24/96 kHz the file could potentially bring higher fidelity. But suppose the file was not sourced from the Master or even a quality tape transfer. Or worse, merely Upsampled? You could very well end up with a file that was simply placed in a larger container, offering no increased fidelity and wasting your premium.
   





  _The thought of being burned_, _the Horror! _The future will bring change but as it stands, there is NO defined standard of what "High Resolution" is. There's more but I'd like to hear from others on the matter as well. I will add that if you know how to read Spectrograms of recordings, this could help.
   
  Onto your second question, "Yes," they are still using the compressed version of FLAC.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That is an interesting thought.  Where did you find that info?  Over at Computer Audiophile?  Not quite sure if I understand what it is about yet but I'll give a deeper read.


 

 Yup, over at CA. I got three computers but none are unused - may hop over to the Goodwill and p/u a cheap box. I want the most barren box I can find - low voltage, no fully featured this-that-&-the other... barren... but running!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's about turning an unused computer into a music server/jukebox that automatically rips, stores and serves using Open Source software (Linux).


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's about turning an unused computer into a music server/jukebox that automatically rips, stores and serves using Open Source software (Linux).


 
  This makes more sense than buying an expensive, dedicated box.  The computing task is trivial.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> This makes more sense than buying an expensive, dedicated box.  The computing task is trivial.


 

 One of the brilliant things about this designer is that he used open source tools and made it available to a wide variety of people. And those who simply have no interest in DIY, there's commercial kits._ But more importantly,_ _this cat is green_ (environmentally speaking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )  - think of all the old computers that may have ended up in a Landfill!!!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> is there a noticable increase in sound quality from a 16/44.1 flac to a 24/96 flac?
> is flac the file type that hdtracks uses?


 

 FLAC is the most common lossless compression method.  HDtracks uses it as do many others, including enthusiasts.  There are others equally as good.
   
  A high resolution file has the potential of delivering better sound.  The original recording must have been made in higher resolution *and* have captured musical information that 16/44 cannot.  Otherwise the high resolution file will sound exactly the same, although the high resolution file will be physically much bigger. 
   
  Sadly, many files offered as high resolution are merely 16/44 upsampled.  Upsampling adds nothing to the original file, it just places the data in a much larger package (think of a cup of water poured into a quart container).
   
  HDtracks has been burned by its suppliers.  Some provided large format files ripped from 16/44 sources.  HDtracks made good with its customers and is culling these out.  It is also double-checking new files that come in through a competent mastering house.
   
  Even a number of commercial SACDs are merely 16/44 transcoded to DSD. 
   
  My advice is to carefully listen and compare a 16/44 with a 24/96 of the same music (Foobar has an ABX comparator function that enables easy blind testing).  Determine whether you can truly hear a difference on your equipment.  
   
  The extra money spent on high resolution files is usually much better spent on a higher quality DAC.  The better equipment makes everything sound good and brings out textures, micro-dynamics and timbres that lesser equipment cannot.  Merely because a soundcard can accept 24/96 or higher does not even vaguely mean the file will sound better.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One of the brilliant things about this designer is that he used open source tools and made it available to a wide variety of people. And those who simply have no interest in DIY, there's commercial kits._ But more importantly,_ _this cat is green_ (environmentally speaking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do they address the power supplies?  I have never been able to get myself to leave a computer on or otherwise unused equipment.  This is one of the things that make servers unappealing to me - I don't want to leave a computer on all the time.
   
  (Oddly, this isn't a green issue.  If the dinosaurs were good enough to die for me to produce oil it is my moral duty to use it.  I thus have a 550+ HP car that gets 6 miles to the gallon when pushed - but I don't leave it idling for hours when I am not in it.)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Do they address the power supplies?  I have never been able to get myself to leave a computer on or otherwise unused equipment.  This is one of the things that make servers unappealing to me - I don't want to leave a computer on all the time.
> 
> (Oddly, this isn't a green issue.  If the dinosaurs were good enough to die for me to produce oil it is my moral duty to use it.  I thus have a 550+ HP car that gets 6 miles to the gallon when pushed - but I don't leave it idling for hours when I am not in it.)


 






  It's a good thing I'm going to bed @ 1130 hrs Eastern... your last line already had me on the floor!


----------



## Austin Morrow

IMO, when A/B'ing 16/44 vs 24/92, you have to have a really good dynamic headphone, like an HD800.


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> (Oddly, this isn't a green issue.  If the dinosaurs were good enough to die for me to produce oil it is my moral duty to use it.  I thus have a 550+ HP car that gets 6 miles to the gallon when pushed - but I don't leave it idling for hours when I am not in it.)


 






 - We are of the same oppinion. I had an argument with a friend that drives prii, going on about the great mileage and how can I drive a car with a big V8 that gets terrible milage, bla bla bla. My response, I use less gas than you as I work from home and drive a couple times a week and have infinitely more fun when driving than you do. Secondly the only way to get anything to change is to use up all the oil. All these hybrids and other ways of extending fuel use just prolong the perceived problem.
   
  Back on topic, after my wife spent some time listening to the WA6SE, she asked the most wonderful question.... "Can this run 2 pair of headphones at the same time?"
  Of course it can, time to look into a second set of cans, perhaps hd800


----------



## flaming_june

Ha.  Glad you converted some one.
   
  How can you tell a tube is going bad?  I hear a consistent crackling in my left channel recently and it's bothering me quite a bit.  Could it be an indication that a tube is dying?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> IMO, when A/B'ing 16/44 vs 24/92, you have to have a really good dynamic headphone, like an HD800.


 


  I use the W4S DAC-2, V200, LCD-2r.2 and there is clearly a difference between the two for me.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I use the W4S DAC-2, V200, LCD-2r.2 and there is clearly a difference between the two for me.


 


  I haven't tried A/B'ing with the LCD-2 Rev 2. I'm just curious, but what differences did you hear? For me, when listening to through an HD800, I hear a huge difference when it comes to instrumental separation and the "fogginess" starts to clear up a bit.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> How can you tell a tube is going bad?  I hear a consistent crackling in my left channel recently and it's bothering me quite a bit.  Could it be an indication that a tube is dying?


 
   
  In my experience, they volume goes down and that sound gets muddy.  They can make odd noises when they die, although crackling is usually a bad/partial connection between the tube pins and the socket.  Try gently sanding the pins on the subject tube.  Tubes typically last a long time - thousands of hours, years of listening.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I haven't tried A/B'ing with the LCD-2 Rev 2. I'm just curious, but what differences did you hear? For me, when listening to through an HD800, I hear a huge difference when it comes to instrumental separation and the "fogginess" starts to clear up a bit.


 
   
  For me, the biggest improvement is "better" bass - richer texture, more realistic timbre.  It often appears to go deeper and sound louder even though it really is not. 
   
  I don't have a theory why this is.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Ha.  Glad you converted some one.
> 
> How can you tell a tube is going bad?  I hear a consistent crackling in my left channel recently and it's bothering me quite a bit.  Could it be an indication that a tube is dying?


 


   
  If it is quiet crackling cleaning the tube pins and socket will probably cure it.  If it is loud crackling it could be a short, and you should stop using the tube.  When a tube has run many thousands of hours and is used up it starts to sound really dull and lifeless, no energy in the highs.


----------



## Ahzari

Just ordered the WA6 with the Sophia Princess... in Black... Can't wait to try it out!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If it is quiet crackling cleaning the tube pins and socket will probably cure it.  If it is loud crackling it could be a short, and you should stop using the tube.  When a tube has run many thousands of hours and is used up it starts to sound really dull and lifeless, no energy in the highs.


 


  X2
   
  Loud crackling indicates inter element leakage.
  It is not curable, the tube is unsafe to use.
   
  A bad connection between pins and socket can be cured if you run a hot soldering iron along the pins. Let the pins cool down and test the tube,.
  If the crackling gets less you can repeat the process a couple of times, otherwise don't use the tube.
   
  A tube tester like a Jackson, B&K or Sencore can reveal shorts and leakages better than a Hickok.


----------



## shipsupt

Congratulations and welcome to wooville.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Just ordered the WA6 with the Sophia Princess... in Black... Can't wait to try it out!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Trend --
> 
> What a few small vendors, along with some Computer Audiophiles are doing is using VortexBox on older unused or auxillary computers:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Humm, let me give it a try with a work PC that I don't use anymore and give it a try against my NAS.
  
   


  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> IMO, when A/B'ing 16/44 vs 24/92, you have to have a really good dynamic headphone, like an HD800.


 

 You will also need a detail DAC too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Humm, let me give it a try with a work PC that I don't use anymore and give it a try against my NAS.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Just ordered the WA6 with the Sophia Princess... in Black... Can't wait to try it out!


 


  yay!!! another WA6/WA6SE owner!!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yay!!! another WA6/WA6SE owner!!


 

 Thanks!
  I just ordered some Blue Jeans cables (RCA ICs) will those be pretty good for connecting my dac to the WA6? I didnt want to go overboard with expensive cables right now (the WA6 and Sophia set me back a bit already haha)..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yay!!! another WA6/WA6SE owner!!


 

  
  x2


----------



## danska

Quote: 





silent one said:


> x2


 


  x3 Welcome to the club! There are a number of Woo newbies here now!


----------



## danska

Can you guys comment on the next direction in cans for my WA6?
   
  I'm looking at purchasing something beyond my HD650s. The cans that spark my interest are the Denon AH-D7000, Beyer T1, Senn HD800 (of course the top of my list is the LCD-2 but I can't power them). I'm thinking of staying away from the 800 just from the fact that I own the 650, and it would be nice to try something a bit different.
   
  Your input is appreciated.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Can you guys comment on the next direction in cans for my WA6?
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing something beyond my HD650s. The cans that spark my interest are the Denon AH-D7000, Beyer T1, Senn HD800 (of course the top of my list is the LCD-2 but I can't power them). I'm thinking of staying away from the 800 just from the fact that I own the 650, and it would be nice to try something a bit different.
> 
> Your input is appreciated.


 

 By chance, are there any Head-Fi meetings this January/February in the NW? Perhaps, you could connect with either some area Head-Fier's or drop by a boutique and sample some cans. I could make a case for the D7000's, although a bit biased 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but I absolutely adore my re-cabled Denon's! They'd certainly be different and you'd have the well regarded 650's to compliment your listening experience.
   
  I've not yet heard the T1's but have heard nuthin' but great things about 'em... _especially re-cabled. _I am curious as to their sound with my preferences -  genres in music; current tune of my system. But I'm also not familiar with the WA6's capabilities with tubes and cans so... try to audition those on your short list.


----------



## flaming_june

From what I read the stock T1 cable is just as great as any other.  The only difference came with balanced cables.  But anyways, it all really depends on what kind of music you appreciate and what dac you're using.  Don't really want to give blind recommendations.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





danska said:


> Can you guys comment on the next direction in cans for my WA6?
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing something beyond my HD650s. The cans that spark my interest are the Denon AH-D7000, Beyer T1, Senn HD800 (of course the top of my list is the LCD-2 but I can't power them). I'm thinking of staying away from the 800 just from the fact that I own the 650, and it would be nice to try something a bit different.
> 
> Your input is appreciated.


 


  Don't discount a WA 6 and LCD 2 pairing. My WA 6 with 6FD7 power tubes does a pretty good job driving the LCD 2. I also have a Schiit Lyr and Headroom Ultra Desktop. While the WA 6 doesn't have the bass slam of the Lyr or Ultra, it has very nice mids and highs and a respectable bass presence.


----------



## flaming_june

Well yeah.  My computer onboard soundcard can drive my T1s.  Just not very well.  If you're building for the future definitely give those a hard look.  But if you're staying on the wa6 I don't think they are viable options.


----------



## danska

I'm running my WA6 through an analog set-up primarily. Having 85+ db of gain on my phono stage, I have a ton of volume through the WA6 and have two gain switches left. I'm using an EML 5u4g and will be running 6F8G/6SN7 drivers for the foreseeable future. My Dac will be purchased prior to new cans, sometime in the next two weeks (whenever I make up my mind).
   
  SilentOne, we have a meeting here in the PnW towards the end of January. If anyone can reccomend a related dealer in SoCal or Nor, I will check some other stuff out sooner. I'll be in both places several times before then.
   
  The Denons I brought up because I've seen some really good deals recently, and have heard lots of good stuff about them.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Don't discount a WA 6 and LCD 2 pairing. My WA 6 with 6FD7 power tubes does a pretty good job driving the LCD 2. I also have a Schiit Lyr and Headroom Ultra Desktop. While the WA 6 doesn't have the bass slam of the Lyr or Ultra, it has very nice mids and highs and a respectable bass presence.


 


  really the Lyr has better bass than the WA6? I had read otherwise.. do you mean sub bass/ mid bass..? Guess the better question is, how would you describe the WA6 bass and can't that sound character change with the rectifier or tube?


----------



## Rawrbington

any ideas why my 770 pro 80s have a very quiet hum out of my wa2?
  think its the high gain 5998s or just the impedance missmatch?
  or could it maybe be early stages of a tube dying?
   
  its dead quiet out of my 990/600s


----------



## Xcalibur255

The 770's are likely higher sensitivity, combined with the lower impedance.  This has been my experience with the 5998 as well.  More efficient and sensitive headphones reveal the noise floor of the amp more readily.  I have headphones that are silent with the 5998 (so far as hum is concerned at least) and some that aren't.


----------



## Szadzik

Been wondering about this for some time now. I have WA2 and T1s and am thinking about getting a DAC (currently using Burson HA-160D's DAC). 
   
  My rig is connected to my PC (USB/Coax) and maybe you can tell me what DACs you are using that are on par with the rest of my system.
   
  TIA


----------



## flaming_june

After cleaning the prongs off sophia tube, I thought the problem went away.  However I still hear the crackling in my left channel.  Then it occurred to me that there were other tubes in this system...  But the funny thing is this noise never happened when the eml was in there.


----------



## Austin Morrow

About the WA6SE. Does anyone know the best DAC that will synergies well well with both the WA6SE and the Sennhesier HD650?


----------



## Ahzari

Ok, just went through about 500 pages of this forum searching for some reference to the audio quality of the 7N7 upgrade (stock 7N7s tubes from Woo Audio) with the Sophia Princess on the WA6.. I got the the Sophia, but I'm wondering how much better the sound would be with the 7N7 and if they are a smooth sounding tube (I'm really sensitive to sharp/hot treble).
   
  Any opinions?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> About the WA6SE. Does anyone know the best DAC that will synergies well well with both the WA6SE and the Sennhesier HD650?


 

 This one looks interesting:
   




   
   
 [size=inherit]

 [size=inherit]
 [tr][size=inherit] [td][size=inherit] 




[/size][/td] [td][size=inherit] "The DAC HD features a special all-black version of the Wireworld Starlight USB cable. The silver-clad wiring on the cable and unique geometery separating the power and data lines allow cabling up to a full seven meters (optional) without loss.
[/size][/td] [/size][/tr] [tr][size=inherit] [td][size=inherit]   
   




[/size][/td] [td][size=inherit] Pure silver analog cabling, featuring the Eichmann silver bullet connectors, insure the audio signal arrives at the stereo without degredation.[/size][/td] [/size][/tr] [tr][size=inherit] [td][size=inherit] 



[/size][/td] [td][size=inherit] As with the other Halide products, the DAC HD is cryogenically treated to maximize the sonics. Cryogenic treatement results in a smoother, more resolved sound.[/size][/td] [/size][/tr] 
[/size]


----------



## john57

another [size=x-small]cryogenically [/size]treated product??


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Ok, just went through about 500 pages of this forum searching for some reference to the audio quality of the 7N7 upgrade (stock 7N7s tubes from Woo Audio) with the Sophia Princess on the WA6.. I got the the Sophia, but I'm wondering how much better the sound would be with the 7N7 and if they are a smooth sounding tube (I'm really sensitive to sharp/hot treble).
> 
> Any opinions?


 


  As the 7n7 is just a 6sn7 with different pin configuration, you can treat impressions of the 6sn7 tube as the same more or less.  So long as you get a good one, such as an early vintage Sylvania, you'll find considerably smoother and more refined treble than the 6de7 type tubes offer.  I do feel the right 6ew7 comes pretty close to the 6sn7 sound in many ways though, so you should check into that too.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The 770's are likely higher sensitivity, combined with the lower impedance.  This has been my experience with the 5998 as well.  More efficient and sensitive headphones reveal the noise floor of the amp more readily.  I have headphones that are silent with the 5998 (so far as hum is concerned at least) and some that aren't.


 


  Thanks Xcalibur!
  always great info from you.
  yeah, my fischers (180 ohm i believe) don't hum either.
  just the 770s so i think you are right.  the sensitivity is most likely hte culprit.
   
  on another not i've found a spot in my heart for the fischers.  i just had to stop expecting them to sound as good as the 990/600 out of the woo, and accept them for what they are.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> As the 7n7 is just a 6sn7 with different pin configuration, you can treat impressions of the 6sn7 tube as the same more or less.  So long as you get a good one, such as an early vintage Sylvania, you'll find considerably smoother and more refined treble than the 6de7 type tubes offer.  I do feel the right 6ew7 comes pretty close to the 6sn7 sound in many ways though, so you should check into that too.


 


  So the 7N7s are a solid upgrade from the 6DE7s? After the $150 fort he Sophia wondering if the extra $100 for the 7N7s will make a noticeable improvement?


----------



## shipsupt

I think you've got many many options!  I currently use a Stello DA100 ahead of my 6SE and drive 600's and love the combo.  The Stello adds a warmth and fullness to the amp that i prefer.  I also have a DacMagic which is no slouch when paired.  I've had a Benchmark and the new Matrix Quatro for extended auditions that would have been good keepers too.  Your budget and sound preferences will likely guide you.... I am sure our Silentone can offer some experience here, he's had a few DAC's in front of his SE as well.  I can definitely say that the 6SE will reward you with a good quality DAC as a source.  
  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> About the WA6SE. Does anyone know the best DAC that will synergies well well with both the WA6SE and the Sennhesier HD650?


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I think you've got many many options!  I currently use a Stello DA100 ahead of my 6SE and drive 600's and love the combo.  The Stello adds a warmth and fullness to the amp that i prefer.  I also have a DacMagic which is no slouch when paired.  I've had a Benchmark and the new Matrix Quatro for extended auditions that would have been good keepers too.  Your budget and sound preferences will likely guide you.... I am sure our Silentone can offer some experience here, he's had a few DAC's in front of his SE as well.  I can definitely say that the 6SE will reward you with a good quality DAC as a source.


 


   
  Does what you are saying about Stello DA100 mean it is not neutral, but more warmish? Does that make the whole setup with a tube amp even warmer?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I think you've got many many options!  I currently use a Stello DA100 ahead of my 6SE and drive 600's and love the combo.  The Stello adds a warmth and fullness to the amp that i prefer.  I also have a DacMagic which is no slouch when paired.  I've had a Benchmark and the new Matrix Quatro for extended auditions that would have been good keepers too.  Your budget and sound preferences will likely guide you.... I am sure our Silentone can offer some experience here, he's had a few DAC's in front of his SE as well.  I can definitely say that the 6SE will reward you with a good quality DAC as a source.


 

 I've yet to hear the Sennheiser HD600/650 with my own _WA 6 Special Edition. _I have sat down with the HD800 but paired with a WA22. I could make suggestions from sunrise to sunset but the OP's preferences are still to come... as his experiences. A DAC that's NOS, Upsamples everything or one that Upsamples only when selected?
   
  Last week, while in-session, I removed my D7000's long enough to overhear that he's an audio reviewer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And has Ken (ALO) on speed-dial... this is good! Looking forward to getting his impressions on gear in the future. 
   
  That said, on a stand next to my suped-up W4S box sits an undisclosed amount of cash, let's call it "Lunch money." It wasn't always there, in fact... only made an appearance once the DAC-1 became burned-in. And none of the DACs leaving their auditions here could leave with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Perhaps, the next class of DACs at $1,500 and up?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So the 7N7s are a solid upgrade from the 6DE7s? After the $150 fort he Sophia wondering if the extra $100 for the 7N7s will make a noticeable improvement?


 


  Once I went 6SN7 I could not go back personally.  The entire character of the amp is different with this tube, but the overall level of refinement and transparency goes up noticeably.  My adapters did not come from Woo Audio though, they were made by Glenn.  I'd suggest you contact him, but I hear right now he is not able to source the correct parts to make adapters for the WA6 and WA6SE right now.
   
  The 7n7 is a good alternative to the 6SN7 purely because they are less expensive.  Ultimately you can get better sound if you pursue the best and rarest 6SN7 tubes, but by the time you're done it is almost like paying for the amp twice so you really have to be interested in tube hunting to make it worth the money.  A good vintage Sylvania 7n7 will probably get you at least 80% there and is much easier on the wallet.  Most of the cost is in the adapters themselves because Jack's are very professional looking with the engraved anodized aluminum and whatnot.  He has to make a profit after covering the parts cost.


----------



## Silent One

Adapters --
   
  About 10 days ago, Jack quoted me $90 for 6DE7 adapters (in my instance 6F8G>6DE7). Current lead time is one to two weeks. Hope this helps.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Once I went 6SN7 I could not go back personally.  The entire character of the amp is different with this tube, but the overall level of refinement and transparency goes up noticeably.  My adapters did not come from Woo Audio though, they were made by Glenn.  I'd suggest you contact him, but I hear right now he is not able to source the correct parts to make adapters for the WA6 and WA6SE right now.
> 
> The 7n7 is a good alternative to the 6SN7 purely because they are less expensive.  Ultimately you can get better sound if you pursue the best and rarest 6SN7 tubes, but by the time you're done it is almost like paying for the amp twice so you really have to be interested in tube hunting to make it worth the money.  A good vintage Sylvania 7n7 will probably get you at least 80% there and is much easier on the wallet.  Most of the cost is in the adapters themselves because Jack's are very professional looking with the engraved anodized aluminum and whatnot.  He has to make a profit after covering the parts cost.


 
   
  Thanks for the info, I'd likely go the 7N7 route for now, maybe wait and do the 6SN7 later down the road.
   
  You said you wouldnt go back after hearing the 6SN7, was it a more musical tube? Or was it just the refinement/detail? I feel like very detailed sound can take away from musicality.. For example I think the D7000s are more musical than the HD800.. I tend to lean towards warmth (not overly, but warmer than neutral).


----------



## Silent One

I too, went the 6SN7 route... _and early. _I have been fond of saying in this space _"Once I went 6SN7, I ain't never goin' back!" _For one thing you can find a lot more quality tubes to choose from; more options than 7N7. I found the 6SN7 series to sound more sophisticated, the 7N7 more pedestrian. Admittedly, when I auditioned 7N7's I did not have the _creme_, but it still revealed enough for me to decide to stick with 6SN7's. To me, the latter is more refined, has more substance, layers and simply more coherent stuff in there!


----------



## john57

Personaly I like very detailed smooth sound. Some of the 7n7 tubes can be bright. The JAN versions or gray glass tubes both in 7N7 or 6SN7 tubes are usally a bit more mellow in my experince.   I tried the HD650 and they seem to be hold up well as compared to the HD800.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I found the 6SN7 series to sound more sophisticated, the 7N7 more pedestrian.


 

 ? 
   
  Electrically they are the same tube, same internal guts.  The only difference is the pin configuration/number of pins.
   
  A Sylvania 7N7 is a nice tube - and cheap.


----------



## WarriorAnt

R.I.P. William Z. Johnson. One of the true originators of high-end audio and tube design.
   
  2008 Stereophile interview.
  http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/894z/index.html


----------



## rosgr63

BTW all 7N7 were made by Sylvania.
  The earlier types are reported to be better sounding.
  The later types have the 6SN7GTB triangular style plates.


----------



## thrak

i'm a bit confused...  some of you are using 6SN7's in your 6SE's.  jack lists these as upgrades to the WA6 and specifically mentions them not being compatible with the 6SE.  can someone expand/clarify this for me?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i'm a bit confused...  some of you are using 6SN7's in your 6SE's.  jack lists these as upgrades to the WA6 and specifically mentions them not being compatible with the 6SE.  can someone expand/clarify this for me?


 


  Not compatible only on the older WA6SE.  If your WA6SE is older a year old, check with Jack first.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> About the WA6SE. Does anyone know the best DAC that will synergies well well with both the WA6SE and the Sennhesier HD650?


 

  
  i don't know if it's the best (i have nothing else to compare it with) but i am feeding my 6SE from a Bifrost and it pairs very nicely with both the HD600 and 800.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not compatible only on the older WA6SE.  If your WA6SE is older a year old, check with Jack first.


 


  ah, gotcha!  thanks.  mine is only a few months old so i guess i should be good.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> BTW all 7N7 were made by Sylvania.
> The earlier types are reported to be better sounding.
> The later types have the 6SN7GTB triangular style plates.


 
   
  [size=medium]I will agree what you said for the most part. I like the earlier T plates not the latter triangular style plates which tend to be a bit spiky in the treble. My was NOS C.H.S gray glass Navy 7N7 tube made in April 1942 by Sylvania as well is quite mellow sounding as compared to the other 7N7 tubes in my collection.[/size]


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]I will agree what you said for the most part. I like the earlier T plates not the latter triangular style plates which tend to be a bit spiky in the treble. My was NOS C.H.S gray glass Navy 7N7 tube made in April 1942 by Sylvania as well is quite mellow sounding as compared to the other 7N7 tubes in my collection.[/size]


 

 Hi John, which part do you disagree with?
  After 1955 or so the 7N7 were made similar to the 6SN7GTB.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thrak said:


> ah, gotcha!  thanks.  mine is only a few months old so i guess i should be good.


 


  Shoot Jack an email to confirm but I'm pretty sure it will be fine.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Shoot Jack an email to confirm but I'm pretty sure it will be fine.


 


  I'm not sure about this.
   
  I'm interested in buying a new 6SE and asked Jack about 6SN7 tube adapters and he answered:
   
  "6SN7 cannnot be used in the WA6-SE, only work in the WA6"
   
  I'm a little bit confused...


----------



## Ahzari

I've been doing some research and their are few to no 7N7 tubes in the market right now.. Where we're these older 7N7s being purchased? I was looking to get the 7N7 adaptor for my WA6 but searching the market showed me I have a much better chance of getting a sweet sounding tube in the form of the 6SN7 (even though they are more $$) because the 7N7 has low diversity... Or am I missing something?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





archigius said:


> I'm not sure about this.
> 
> I'm interested in buying a new 6SE and asked Jack about 6SN7 tube adapters and he answered:
> 
> ...


 



 SilentOne has a WA6SE and use 6SN7 on his amp.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> SilentOne has a WA6SE and use 6SN7 on his amp.


 


  Therefore why Jack says they are not compatible?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Therefore why Jack says they are not compatible?


 


  Because the adapters will need a resistor and have the capacitor inside bypassed. I bought my adapters from 2359glenn... a fellow member here in this thread.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Because the adapters will need a resistor placed inside. I bought my adapters from 2359glenn... a fellow member here in this thread.


 


 Woohoo, Glenn to the rescue....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I've been doing some research and their are few to no 7N7 tubes in the market right now.. Where we're these older 7N7s being purchased? I was looking to get the 7N7 adaptor for my WA6 but searching the market showed me I have a much better chance of getting a sweet sounding tube in the form of the 6SN7 (even though they are more $$) because the 7N7 has low diversity... Or am I missing something?


 


  My decision not to run 7N7 series tubes was one of investment. I had already made the switch to 6SN7 series. Plus, I went shopping for tubes before making the decision and availability of good/great tubes were limited. My interest was sparked by the rising prices for premium 6SN7 tubes and the value the 7N7 could bring.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i'm a bit confused...  some of you are using 6SN7's in your 6SE's.  jack lists these as upgrades to the WA6 and specifically mentions them not being compatible with the 6SE.  can someone expand/clarify this for me?


 


  Because the adapters for the WA6 will need adapting further themselves for the WA6SE - resistor and capacitor to be bypassed inside.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> ah, gotcha!  thanks.  mine is only a few months old so i guess i should be good.


 


  Without a doubt. The cutoff was April 2010 I believe...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Because the adapters will need a resistor and have the capacitor inside bypassed. I bought my adapters from 2359glenn... a fellow member here in this thread.


 


  This is very interesting I had the Woo 6 and decided to upgrade to the  SE, so i think 6SN7 gives more tube rolling options.
   
  The only thing i don't understand is this: if Woo makes the adapters for the 6, why he doesn't make those for the 6 SE, if they are so easy to build?
   
  However i'm definitely interested in these adapters by Glenn, only hope they are safe to use with the 6SE.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> ?
> 
> Electrically they are the same tube, same internal guts.  The only difference is the pin configuration/number of pins.
> 
> A Sylvania 7N7 is a nice tube - and cheap.


 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I too, went the 6SN7 route... _and early. _I have been fond of saying in this space _"Once I went 6SN7, I ain't never goin' back!" _For one thing you can find a lot more quality tubes to choose from; more options than 7N7. I found the 6SN7 series to sound more sophisticated, the 7N7 more pedestrian. Admittedly, when I auditioned 7N7's I did not have the _creme_, but it still revealed enough for me to decide to stick with 6SN7's. To me, the latter is more refined, has more substance, layers and simply more coherent stuff in there!


 

 Yes, I'm fully aware that they are electronically the same tube. As well as most 7N7's being Sylvania Chrome Domes. My trial involved both the 7N7 & 7AF7 tubes. Further, to add clarity to my post, I had already switched to 6SN7 tubes and began auditioning the 7N7 & 7AF7 tubes. What I tried to express was two simple things: comparing what I had on hand (6SN7 vs 7N7 and admitting I did not have the best 7N7) and availability of premium 7N7 tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And that 7N7 tube, my friend,_ was pedestrian... _
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> This is very interesting I had the Woo 6 and decided to upgrade to the  SE, so i think 6SN7 gives more tube rolling options.
> 
> The only thing i don't understand is this: if Woo makes the adapters for the 6, why he doesn't make those for the 6 SE, if they are so easy to build?
> 
> However i'm definitely interested in these adapters by Glenn, only hope they are safe to use with the 6SE.


 








 Let's see, time? Resources? Wait, I got it! They're busy finely crafting amplifiers for us in New York...? In my view, the decision not to is one based on operation/production - how does a limited staff best spend its time? He can build anything, he'd build me one if asked... and my wallet_ would_ be my receipt (depleted). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, maybe best for him to address exceptions than get sidetracked from building the next amp you know you're going to order.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Let's see, time? Resources? Wait, I got it! They're busy finely crafting amplifiers for us in New York...? In my view, the decision not to is one based on operation/production - how does a limited staff best spend its time? He can build anything, he'd build me one if asked... and my wallet_ would_ be my receipt (depleted).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Who knows...maybe he sells more 6 than 6SE, so to make the adapters for the 6 is more profitable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can't wait to try those sexy black CV181 on my 6SE!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> R.I.P. William Z. Johnson. One of the true originators of high-end audio and tube design.
> 
> 2008 Stereophile interview.
> http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/894z/index.html


 


  Thanks, WarriorAnt. That made for a great lunchtime read...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Who knows...maybe he sells more 6 than 6SE, so to make the adapters for the 6 is more profitable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 







  Can't wait for your impressions! It certainly looks sexy...
   
  Will you have them Dec/Jan?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can't wait for your impressions! It certainly looks sexy...


 


  This will take a lot of time.
   
  2 weeks to build the amp...then shipping and delivery time...then burn in...etc...
   
  Those tubes are very pricey, but i'll try to save money to buy a pair as soon as i can
  .
   A friend of mine told me that they are incredibly good, i'm very curious!


----------



## thrak

looks like i just made a potentially big oops.  i went and ordered the 6SN7s+adapters from woo earlier today before the conversation expanded.  so my dilemma now is: can jack's adapters for the 6 be modified for the 6SE or am i stuck until i can get a hold of proper adapters?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> looks like i just made a potentially big oops.  i went and ordered the 6SN7s+adapters from woo earlier today before the conversation expanded.  so my dilemma now is: can jack's adapters for the 6 be modified for the 6SE or am i stuck until i can get a hold of proper adapters?


 

 I'm not sure I follow. You requested 6SN7 adapters for the WA6 from Woo Audio and not for the WA6SE? Would be simple to modify or sell. But why, when you could simply notify Jack?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, WarriorAnt. That made for a great lunchtime read...


 

 He was one of the greats.  I had the Audio Research SP-8 pre amp.  The Audio Research SP-10 was legendary and much coveted among vinyl lovers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> He was one of the greats.  I had the Audio Research SP-8 pre amp.  The Audio Research SP-10 was legendary and much coveted among vinyl lovers.


 


  He spoke eloquently about audio's state of affairs. Many will find him relevant years from now...


----------



## Silent One

When it comes to light indicators, Woo Audio amps check out fine. To several other vendors (_some with products inside my listening room_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) with products that have way too bright light indicators, LCD screens and other illuminated non-sense:


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm not sure I follow. You requested 6SN7 adapters for the WA6 from Woo Audio and not for the WA6SE? Would be simple to modify or sell. But why, when you could simply notify Jack?


 

 yep.  i assumed they would be the same.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  guess i'll just cancel the order...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> yep.  i assumed they would be the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Could I kindly suggest, post cancellation, you summarize what happened and ask Jack if he could make them for you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Imagine, a loyal and satisfied customer trying to buy accessories...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thanks for the info, I'd likely go the 7N7 route for now, maybe wait and do the 6SN7 later down the road.
> 
> You said you wouldnt go back after hearing the 6SN7, was it a more musical tube? Or was it just the refinement/detail? I feel like very detailed sound can take away from musicality.. For example I think the D7000s are more musical than the HD800.. I tend to lean towards warmth (not overly, but warmer than neutral).


 
  Both. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I find it more musical AND it has more detail.  I think the best way to describe is it has more finesse, the finer low level detail is revealed and at the same time the presentation feels smoother and more relaxed.  The 6FD7 in particular can sound hard edged IMO, where as the right 6SN7 isn't in your face even when played fairly loud.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





archigius said:


> This is very interesting I had the Woo 6 and decided to upgrade to the  SE, so i think 6SN7 gives more tube rolling options.
> 
> The only thing i don't understand is this: if Woo makes the adapters for the 6, why he doesn't make those for the 6 SE, if they are so easy to build?
> 
> However i'm definitely interested in these adapters by Glenn, only hope they are safe to use with the 6SE.


 


   
  A normal adapter is a very simple thing, it just re-routes the pin outs of the tube.  The reason Jack does not recommend the 6SN7 for the WA6SE is because the amp runs that tube too hard (over its maximum plate voltage most likely) and would burn the 6SN7 tube up relatively fast.  Glenn builds a more complex adapter which reduces the voltage via a resistor to keep the 6SN7 from frying.  As for why Jack will not do this we can only guess.  Either he is unaware of this solution (I doubt it), or he doesn't want to endorse it as a businessman who has to keep consistency and warranty costs in mind in case something goes wrong (much more likely).


----------



## Silent One

_I find the 6SN7 series allows my amp to express itself more beautifully..._


----------



## Silent One

Anyone experience the Russian Military 6H8C tube (1578)?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





archigius said:


> I can't wait to try those sexy black CV181 on my 6SE!!!


 

 I am running two of these right now (WA5).  It's a very nice tube.  BTW, it's not a CV181, actually a 6SN7 even though they label it as a CV181-Z.  This is a good thing as it is safe in all 6SN7applications.  The base and bottle are oversized.  A pair just barely fits in my amp.
   
  As to the 7N7, I find them on eBay.  I have had good luck snapping up a couple of pairs.  Of course, like all tubes, they are not created equal and I agree the older are better.  The chrome dome are not bad however (mine are labeled RCA).  When I find them they are typically a lot cheaper than 6SN7.  I have never spent over $30 for a pair.


----------



## Rawrbington

got my DLIII today.  first thought.  its huge.  instantly noticed a difference.  theres just more there.  more depth more space in the sound.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Who knows...maybe he sells more 6 than 6SE, so to make the adapters for the 6 is more profitable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Coming from Treasure owner, still have it.  I recommend to cancel this if it is not shipped, for $250, you can get something better.  Like, NU 6F8G or TS 6F8G with adapter.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _I find the 6SN7 series allows my amp to express itself more beautifully..._


 


  Thanks for the comments regarding the comparisons on the tubes.. think I'll go the 6sn7 route now.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Both.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Smooth is exactly what I'm looking for.. and the diversity of the 6SN7 tubes made me change my mind about the 7N7s too. Thanks for the input.
   
  Seems like the Woo's come with some decent RCA 6SN7s too when you purchase the adaptor.. Guess I'll try those out and post my review on them once in (don't know the specific model).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I am running two of these right now (WA5).  It's a very nice tube.  BTW, it's not a CV181, actually a 6SN7 even though they label it as a CV181-Z.  This is a good thing as it is safe in all 6SN7applications.  The base and bottle are oversized.  A pair just barely fits in my amp.
> 
> As to the 7N7, I find them on eBay.  I have had good luck snapping up a couple of pairs.  Of course, like all tubes, they are not created equal and I agree the older are better.  The chrome dome are not bad however (mine are labeled RCA).  When I find them they are typically a lot cheaper than 6SN7.  I have never spent over $30 for a pair.


 

 Great tubes (though microphonic if you give them a bit of a whack). But for the price, there are other better options. I've got a pair here and really like them, but prefer my VT-231 RCA Smoked Glass or 5692 Brown Base Sylvanias.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> got my DLIII today.  first thought.  its huge.  instantly noticed a difference.  theres just more there.  more depth more space in the sound.


 

 You may want to set alerts on your computer to: remember to do other tasks and to take breaks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You brought home a great box in the DLIII...


----------



## Rawrbington

haha.
  i know.
  my couch and tv are gonna miss me


----------



## Ahzari

just ordered the 6SN7GT adaptors form Woo Audio.. looking forward to putting the whole system together! I only wish those adaptors were black, would look much better with the WA6...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> just ordered the 6SN7GT adaptors form Woo Audio.. looking forward to putting the whole system together! I only wish those adaptors were black, would look much better with the WA6...


 

 This has been my reserve on an otherwise high quality adapter from Woo Audio. I'd sweeten the pot if it meant I could get black.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Great tubes (though microphonic if you give them a bit of a whack). But for the price, there are other better options. I've got a pair here and really like them, but prefer my VT-231 RCA Smoked Glass or 5692 Brown Base Sylvanias.


 

 I also like my Popes better.  It is fun to play with all the options.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> got my DLIII today.  first thought.  its huge.  instantly noticed a difference.  theres just more there.  more depth more space in the sound.


 

 Excellent!
   
  It has a wonderfully rich flavor, with great textures and detail.  Plus they stand behind their products.  Make sure to register it.


----------



## Rawrbington

i would but i picked it up used Wapiti   =(
   
  i am loving its texture and detail.
  but my computer isn't playing nice with my attempts at playback of 24/96 files.
  i have darkside of the moon in 24/96 and it doesn't like it.
   
  and the usb doesn't even give me the option to set 24/96 as a playable file size
   
  might need new computer or just soundcard with digital out that supports it
   
  my old maudio only does 44.1
   
   
  yeah and after fiddling around with it for an hour and finally giving up...
  my buddy puts a song he's been working on in my drop box and its 32/96
  i didn't look just hit play with jriver and jriver says it doesn;'t like it can it change it to 24/96 and i say yes
  bam perfect.
  and now the other 24/96 plays correctly as well.
  i don't get it but
  don't care know lol
  windows and its audio settings....
  poop


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> got my DLIII today.  first thought.  its huge.  instantly noticed a difference.  theres just more there.  more depth more space in the sound.


 


  awesome!!! i thought the same thing when i got it. i was just blown away coming from using no dac to using the DLIII
   
   
  just placed an order for a WA2 today, seems like we're gonna have the same system


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> awesome!!! i thought the same thing when i got it. i was just blown away coming from using no dac to using the DLIII
> 
> 
> just placed an order for a WA2 today, seems like we're gonna have the same system


 







 Congrats! Yes, y'all will share DACs, amps and cans. The exchanges between you two could bring more light. And welcome back, Dubstep Girl!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks! gratz on 2000 posts btw
   
  and just got the RS1 semi-vintage i purchased back from repair.
   
  new drivers (rs1i drivers i think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and new headband, will get new pads this week!
   
  they sound amazing now. like omg! all the grado goodness in a nice mellow and warmer presentation


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> just ordered the 6SN7GT adaptors form Woo Audio.. looking forward to putting the whole system together! I only wish those adaptors were black, would look much better with the WA6...


 

 If you really like mellow a good place to start is the black glass National Union 6SN7GT from the late 40's to early 50's.  Somewhat rare, but if you are patient you can find a pair without breaking the bank.  If you experiment a bit with rectifier pairing this tube brings the most beautiful midrange you'll ever hear from the WA6.  Speed and detail are not it's forte though, especially when it comes to bass.  I did find the Mullard GZ33 woke them up shockingly well, but this was the exception rather than the rule.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you really like mellow a good place to start is the black glass National Union 6SN7GT from the late 40's to early 50's.  Somewhat rare, but if you are patient you can find a pair without breaking the bank.  If you experiment a bit with rectifier pairing this tube brings the most beautiful midrange you'll ever hear from the WA6.  Speed and detail are not it's forte though, especially when it comes to bass.  I did find the Mullard GZ33 woke them up shockingly well, but this was the exception rather than the rule.


 

 I'll definitely keep my eye out for the National Union.. I have a speedy SS amp, so mellow is the goal with the WA6. How do you think it would pair with the Sophia Princess?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

now that i got my grado rs1s back.omg its so addicting, they're actually making me stand up and dance/headbang/etc...
   
  its crazy, they just sound sooooo goood!!!!!
   
  listening to iron maiden right now!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> now that i got my grado rs1s back.omg its so addicting, they're actually making me stand up and dance/headbang/etc...
> 
> its crazy, they just sound sooooo goood!!!!!
> 
> listening to iron maiden right now!!!


 


  Then I'd better send your surprise track later this evening... _before you blow a new driver. _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Then I'd better send your surprise track later this evening... _before you blow a new driver. _


 






   
   
  gonna listen to those songs u sent me other day too, finally have time to do it.
   
  and rs1 also sound amazingly good with pop music i've noticed. its just very intimate and upfront using the flat pads. and the bass is very tight and fun.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> gonna listen to those songs u sent me other day too, finally have time to do it.
> 
> and rs1 also sound amazingly good with pop music i've noticed. its just very intimate and upfront using the flat pads. and the bass is very tight and fun.


 

 You have me very curious about those cans. One of my nearby Head-Fier's got a few different Grados - ain't heard one yet. Perhaps, I hit his Mobile... so I won't have to bang on his door!


----------



## archigius

Anyone tried a pair of these 6DN7?
   

   
  They arrived few hours before i shipped my old Woo Audio 6. I bought because they were claimed to have more gain/volume. In the few minutes i listened to them, they seemed too "tubey" for my taste.
  However they were not burned in
   
  By comparison, the 6DE7 i had seemed more airy.
   
  I had these Zenith 6DE7 on my Woo 6, they seems like rebranded RCA, can anyone confirm?


----------



## Ahzari

...

 EDIT: Sorry read your post wrong, thought you got the 6SN7, not the 6DN7.. Curious though, can you tell the brand of the tubes you got from Woo?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

starting to notice the amazing synergy the RS1 and WA6SE have.almost as good as the hd 650s with the WA6SE/ i thought the RS1 would be a little to bright with the WA6SE, but i guess i was wrong lol.
   
  most enjoyable combo i've heard so far. 
   
  it just makes me wanna start dancing and headbanging and just rocking out to the music. its really really good lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> starting to notice the amazing synergy the RS1 and WA6SE have.almost as good as the hd 650s with the WA6SE/ i thought the RS1 would be a little to bright with the WA6SE, but i guess i was wrong lol.
> 
> most enjoyable combo i've heard so far.
> 
> it just makes me wanna start dancing and headbanging and just rocking out to the music. its really really good lol


 







  Satisfied Woo Audio amp owners, this way > please...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> ...
> 
> EDIT: Sorry read your post wrong, thought you got the 6SN7, not the 6DN7.. Curious though, can you tell the brand of the tubes you got from Woo?


 


  RCA 6DN7. I will listen to these tubes with more attention when my Woo 6 SE arrives.
  They were not burned in, but at a first glance, the Zenit (rebranded RCA?) sounded more airy, while these were much warmer.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Anyone tried a pair of these 6DN7?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How much were wooaudio selling these tubes and the adaptor base?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> How much were wooaudio selling these tubes and the adaptor base?


 


  About 80 dollars for the adapters and 30 for the tubes+shipping.


----------



## flaming_june

Cool, thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> RCA 6DN7. I will listen to these tubes with more attention when my Woo 6 SE arrives.
> They were not burned in, but at a first glance, the Zenit (rebranded RCA?) sounded more airy, while these were much warmer.


 


  On a side note, how's the Head-Fi scene in your part of the globe, emerging or already established?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On a side note, how's the Head-Fi scene in your part of the globe, emerging or already established?


 


  In my country there is generally a good confidence with Head-fi.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> awesome!!! i thought the same thing when i got it. i was just blown away coming from using no dac to using the DLIII
> 
> 
> just placed an order for a WA2 today, seems like we're gonna have the same system


 

 i know!
  im excited.  im loving it.  im just sorta sad that im not gonna get to spend more time with it cause of work stuff this week/weekend
  i really want to try some hd650s with my woo.
  can't wait to hear how they sound on yours.  you'll have to keep me up to speed!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i know!
> im excited.  im loving it.  im just sorta sad that im not gonna get to spend more time with it cause of work stuff this week/weekend
> i really want to try some hd650s with my woo.
> can't wait to hear how they sound on yours.  you'll have to keep me up to speed!


 


  sure will.
   
  and i know!!! i was working 84 hour weeks last month. i  was working the outage at the nuclear plant. so no time for music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  ipod + monster turbine golds during breaks, but the quality is no where near the lvl of a woo + a good dac.


----------



## archigius

I have a question for those who use the 6SN7 adapters on the Woo Audio 6 SE:
   
  What about power/volume/gain?
   
  Is the amp less powerful when using the 6SN7? I know that the 6 SE is very very powerful amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> I have a question for those who use the 6SN7 adapters on the Woo Audio 6 SE:
> 
> What about power/volume/gain?
> 
> Is the amp less powerful when using the 6SN7? I know that the 6 SE is very very powerful amp.


 


  Yes. You'll have to use more turn of the volume pot but that's a good thing. The Woo has plenty of drive and the lower gain tube should result in a cleaner signal coming out of that pot.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes. You'll have to use more turn of the volume pot but that's a good thing. The Woo has plenty of drive and the lower gain tube should result in a cleaner signal coming out of that pot.


 


  How muchmore you have to turn up the volume?
  Can you do some examples?
   
  When i had my Woo 6 and i listened to the Tesla T1, i was at about 11-12 o clock for the most pop-rock recordings.
  With classical (i listen to a lot of classical) i was at 13/14 o clock and even at 15 (near to maximum) for some albums like Beethoven - 9th symphony by Abbado and Berliner Philharmoniker.
   
  One of the reasons why i'm upgrading to the SE is to have more driving power. Hope it's powerful enought even whrn the 6SN7.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> How muchmore you have to turn up the volume?
> Can you do some examples?
> 
> When i had my Woo 6 and i listened to the Tesla T1, i was at about 11-12 o clock for the most pop-rock recordings.
> ...


 


  From what I've read with members using 600 ohm cans/WA6SE, lack of power shouldn't be a problem. And from this group I can't recall if any ran 6SN7 series tubes. In your example above, were you using 6SN7 tubes inside your WA6?
   
  With the volume pot going from minimum to maximum (7 o'clock to 5 o'clock); 25 ohm cans; 6SN7's, most Pop recordings clock at 8 o'clock for moderate volume. 9 o'clock moderate to loud. Using 6EW7 tubes, moderate volume was 7:30-8 o'clock; moderate to loud 8-8:30.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> From what I've read with members using 600 ohm cans/WA6SE, lack of power shouldn't be a problem. And from this group I can't recall if any ran 6SN7 series tubes. In your example above, were you using 6SN7 tubes inside your WA6?


 

  
  No, i was using 6DE7 Zenith (maybe rebranded RCA).
  I briefly tried the 6DN7 and they were slightly more powerful (10-15%).


----------



## jc9394

Did you tried 6FD7?  It has the most gain of all the 6XX7 tubes.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did you tried 6FD7?  It has the most gain of all the 6XX7 tubes.


 


  No, i asked Jack and he told me that the 6DN7 had more gain.
   
  This was his answer
   
  "_6DR7 has the almost the same gain as the 6DE7. 6FD7 will have 5% increase, 6DN7 (must use with adapters) 10%_".
   
  When i asked about the 6SN7, he said:
   
  "_The 6SN7 has even lower gain than the 6DE7_".
   
   
  In theory, the 6 SE has much more voltage swing, so there should be no problem with the 6SN7, but i asked here to see if someone had more direct experience


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I'll definitely keep my eye out for the National Union.. I have a speedy SS amp, so mellow is the goal with the WA6. How do you think it would pair with the Sophia Princess?


 


  On that I can't say, I never went for the Sophia.  I have an Emission Labs 274B mesh tube, and the National Unions are very lush and romantic with this tube.  It also pairs well with the Brimar 5R4GY, a great tube for the money I and one I think all WA6 owners should have since it seems to work so well with all the stock type tubes and isn't that expensive to buy.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Anyone tried a pair of these 6DN7?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Your 6DN7 tubes are GE made.  The 6DE7 in the second photo does appear to be an RCA, but it is the old plate style (this is a good thing) which doesn't jive with that 70's era box sitting next to it.
   
  As for gain, the 6SN7 has a gain (or mu) of 20 which is just slightly higher than a 6DE7 or 6EW7.  The 6FD7 is considerably higher at 64, then we have the 6DR7 and 6CY7 at 68.  Off the top of my head I'm not sure what the 6DN7 is but I know it is high, up there with the last two.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





archigius said:


> How muchmore you have to turn up the volume?
> Can you do some examples?
> 
> When i had my Woo 6 and i listened to the Tesla T1, i was at about 11-12 o clock for the most pop-rock recordings.
> ...


 
  How much you have to turn the volume knob up really doesn't have much relationship to how much power an amplifier can deliver.  Merely changing the trim taper on the pot will make the volume knob behave differently.  One of the nice things Jack does with his amps is use volume pots with a well implemented taper so that the entire volume adjustment range doesn't occur in the first 1/4 travel of the knob like it does with most cheap pots.  The gain of the tubes is one factor in how much output power the amp has, but it is only one component of a much larger set of variables that determine the amp's driving power.  The WA6 is powerful enough for most headphones as long as you are not a headbanger, where you'll likely start running into clipping.  The SE has enough power for almost anything, and I can't imagine a user clipping this amp using any normal dynamic headphone.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Your 6DN7 tubes are GE made.  The 6DE7 in the second photo does appear to be an RCA, but it is the old plate style (this is a good thing) which doesn't jive with that 70's era box sitting next to it.
> 
> As for gain, the 6SN7 has a gain (or mu) of 20 which is just slightly higher than a 6DE7 or 6EW7.  The 6FD7 is considerably higher at 64, then we have the 6DR7 and 6CY7 at 68.  Off the top of my head I'm not sure what the 6DN7 is but I know it is high, up there with the last two.


 
   
  Thanks, these are great infos!
  So the 6DN7 is GE made even if on the tube is printed RCA?
   
  The 6DE7 in the picture has IHMO a fantastic airy and detailed sound and very good soundstage.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> How much you have to turn the volume knob up really doesn't have much relationship to how much power an amplifier can deliver.  Merely changing the trim taper on the pot will make the volume knob behave differently.  One of the nice things Jack does with his amps is use volume pots with a well implemented taper so that the entire volume adjustment range doesn't occur in the first 1/4 travel of the knob like it does with most cheap pots.  The gain of the tubes is one factor in how much output power the amp has, but it is only one component of a much larger set of variables that determine the amp's driving power.  The WA6 is powerful enough for most headphones as long as you are not a headbanger, where you'll likely start running into clipping.  The SE has enough power for almost anything, and I can't imagine a user clipping this amp using any normal dynamic headphone.


 


  Yes, the pot is very good and the Woo 6 sounded great even at hight volume.
   
  I usually listen to medium volumes, but sometimes i like to go higter for some songs.
   
  The only issue i had was with some classical albums. Classical is often recorded at very low volumes to get more dinamic range.


----------



## Silent One

With seemingly compressed (heavily) music all round these days, Dynamic Range is like a breath of fresh air...


----------



## danska

Dynamic range is where I truly love a low-output moving coil. I know most of you aren't analog guys, but man micro details and dynamic range are what a LOMC truly delivers!


----------



## danska

So I got home an hour ago, and was very pleasantly suprised to find my 6F8G and 6SN7 adapters waiting for me!
   
  Right off the first few tracks I listened to, I noticed how much of an improvement the 6F8Gs are to the stock tubes. A much more spread out sound-stage, much better instrument timbre, more layered depth to vocals. I haven't tried the 6SN7s yet, gonna listen to these Tung-Sols for a bit. Will give some more impressions over the next few days as I get some more listening in.
   
  If you like female jazz vocalists check out Melody Gardot, she sounds great through this set-up.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Dynamic range is where I truly love a low-output moving coil. I know most of you aren't analog guys, but man micro details and dynamic range are what a LOMC truly delivers!


 

 I've had and enjoyed this experience at an earlier time. Ah, someday...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





archigius said:


> So the 6DN7 is GE made even if on the tube is printed RCA?
> 
> The 6DE7 in the picture has IHMO a fantastic airy and detailed sound and very good soundstage.


 

 Right.  Tube re-branding was very common in the day, and for less commonly used types of tubes there was often only one or two major manufacturers and the other brands would just have their name put on the tube so they could still offer every tube type in their catalogs.  GE made the fullest range of tubes so it was common to see other brands on tubes made by them.  The white tube number printed on the glass with the 5 dots beneath it gives away immediately, only GE labeled their glass this way. 
   
  Your 6DE7 is the old style, with the larger triode plates in the shape of a cross.  IMO these sound much better than the newer types and this tube is likely why Jack designed an amp around them in the first place.  They are really hard to find now because so few have survived.  Unlike well known tubes like the 6SN7 these were never used in audio applications until the Woo amps came along so old stock of these tubes don't get kept by people due to their perceived lack of value.  I have an RCA made 6FD7 pair in this style.  Myself and several others tried to find more of them, but nobody ever succeeded.  It was dumb luck I found the pair I have.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> So I got home an hour ago, and was very pleasantly suprised to find my 6F8G and 6SN7 adapters waiting for me!
> 
> Right off the first few tracks I listened to, I noticed how much of an improvement the 6F8Gs are to the stock tubes. A much more spread out sound-stage, much better instrument timbre, more layered depth to vocals. I haven't tried the 6SN7s yet, gonna listen to these Tung-Sols for a bit. Will give some more impressions over the next few days as I get some more listening in.
> 
> If you like female jazz vocalists check out Melody Gardot, she sounds great through this set-up.


 

_Beauty in the afternoon... _maybe I should have stayed the course! Separately, Thursday is my absolute favorite day for receiving gear (my choice is strategic)!


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





danska said:


> So I got home an hour ago, and was very pleasantly suprised to find my 6F8G and 6SN7 adapters waiting for me!
> 
> Right off the first few tracks I listened to, I noticed how much of an improvement the 6F8Gs are to the stock tubes. A much more spread out sound-stage, much better instrument timbre, more layered depth to vocals. I haven't tried the 6SN7s yet, gonna listen to these Tung-Sols for a bit. Will give some more impressions over the next few days as I get some more listening in.
> 
> If you like female jazz vocalists check out Melody Gardot, she sounds great through this set-up.


 

 I gotta try that out.


----------



## Chris J




----------



## Ahzari

how well would the WA6 handle the LCD2/3s?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i would but i picked it up used Wapiti   =(


 


 I haven't read all 50 or so posts since I last read this thread, and maybe someone mentioned it, but PS Audio's warranty is transferable to a new owner.  I think three years is the default warranty.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I haven't read all 50 or so posts since I last read this thread, and maybe someone mentioned it, but PS Audio's warranty is transferable to a new owner.  I think three years is the default warranty.


 


  It is, as is Wyred4Sound at 3 years; transferable. Well, considering their roots...


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I haven't read all 50 or so posts since I last read this thread, and maybe someone mentioned it, but PS Audio's warranty is transferable to a new owner.  I think three years is the default warranty.


 


  oh really?
  hmmm
  maybe i should try and contact the seller about a sales receipt or something.
  good stuff right there


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh really?
> hmmm
> maybe i should try and contact the seller about a sales receipt or something.
> good stuff right there


 

 What you'll need is your serial number...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> how well would the WA6 handle the LCD2/3s?


 


  should do a pretty good job at either one of them. i know the WA6SE has more power, but the WA6 isn't a bad choice either. im gonna buy LCD-2s for my WA6SE. i'm gonna guess the WA6 will be more than enough for them considering people power them with much more inferior amps.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> should do a pretty good job at either one of them. i know the WA6SE has more power, but the WA6 isn't a bad choice either.


 


  Thanks just hoping to get a unit future-proof (from my end..) as possible.. I'd like to get my hands on the LCDs as my next headphone upgrade.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thanks just hoping to get a unit future-proof (from my end..) as possible.. I'd like to get my hands on the LCDs as my next headphone upgrade.


 


  i'm sure u'll be ok with them. gonna get myself some LCD-2s in the next couple weeks once my next 2 paychecks arrive.
  i like your choice of headphones. the HD 650, d7000 and lcd-2 all sound very similar. u should sell your d7000 once you get the lcd-2 since many people say the lcd-2 is better than the d7000 in basically every aspect. u can get some extra cash that way.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thanks just hoping to get a unit future-proof (from my end..) as possible.. I'd like to get my hands on the LCDs as my next headphone upgrade.


 


  If you don't listen loudly you should be fine.  It is clipping I would be wary of, though I'm sure the LCD-2 is tough enough to shrug it off anyway.  If you listen to orchestral at something close to immersion levels then the amp will struggle on the big notes, especially anything with big bass or sudden changes in dynamics.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What you'll need is your serial number...


 


  thats it?!?!?
  if so thats awesome.
   
  also noob question.
  how do you calculate output voltage?
  for instance if my amp is 310 mW at 32 ohs.
  how do i calculate the vrms?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats it?!?!?
> if so thats awesome.


 

 That I can't tell you. But this is how they keep track of the unit whether single owner or transfer. My experience comes from W4S, so you may want to call/write to confirm exactly what you need from PS Audio. They both care about their customers so you shouldn't have any problems in the future with repairs.


----------



## shipsupt

Wow, this thread flies... I waited a day or so to reply to this and it was buried wayyyy back... sorry for the delay.
   
  When I say it's warm I mean it only in a very subtle sense.  It's a bit smoother than something that generally is considered a bit more analytical and cold like the Benchmark.  To my ears, these are pretty subtle differences.  The Stello still produces some very accurate and detailed sound, but you might find things rolling off slightly at the high end...  And yes, the sound of your system is the sum of the parts, so a slightly warmer DAC can add to an already warm tube amp sound.  That said, I think the 6SE is not a very tubey sounding amp (although you can select some tubes to lean in that direction if you like that sound), so using something like the DA100 isn't going to let you down by being too slow and lacking detail. 
   

  
  Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Does what you are saying about Stello DA100 mean it is not neutral, but more warmish? Does that make the whole setup with a tube amp even warmer?


----------



## shipsupt

There is certainly a lot of support for going 6SN7 with the 6SE.  I thought I'd throw out that there are still a few of us who haven't gone down that road (yet) and we're finding good results with other options. 
   
  Instead of getting the 6SN7 adapters I opted for the 6DN7 adapter.  I've been pretty pleased with the results, especially with the HE5-LE. 
   
  I also acquired the 6EM7adapters from Jack but honestly I've not been able to give them much head time except for a brief audition when they arrived... which seemed promising.  It reminds me that I need to get them back in the amp!
   
  And of course I'm still a fan of the good old Sylvania fat bottle black plate 6FD7's!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've also recently started listening to more rectifiers since getting a 5Z3 to 5U4 adapter.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i'm sure u'll be ok with them. gonna get myself some LCD-2s in the next couple weeks once my next 2 paychecks arrive.
> i like your choice of headphones. the HD 650, d7000 and lcd-2 all sound very similar. u should sell your d7000 once you get the lcd-2 since many people say the lcd-2 is better than the d7000 in basically every aspect. u can get some extra cash that way.


 
   
  Yea I'd likely get rid of one of my phones after I get the LCDs, but I think I'll wait a while until another upgrade.. The Woos set me back already haha.
  
   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If you don't listen loudly you should be fine.  It is clipping I would be wary of, though I'm sure the LCD-2 is tough enough to shrug it off anyway.  If you listen to orchestral at something close to immersion levels then the amp will struggle on the big notes, especially anything with big bass or sudden changes in dynamics.


 
   
  Definitely don't listen to music too loud, so hopefully i'll be ok. wouldn't higher output power tubes resolve some of the clipping issues?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i'm sure u'll be ok with them. gonna get myself some LCD-2s in the next couple weeks once my next 2 paychecks arrive.
> i like your choice of headphones. the HD 650, d7000 and lcd-2 all sound very similar. u should sell your d7000 once you get the lcd-2 since many people say the lcd-2 is better than the d7000 in basically every aspect. u can get some extra cash that way.


 

 Fascinating. The HD650, D7000 and LCD-2 all sounding very similar... yes, fascinating indeed. I can't speak to the Senn's. But with the remaining two cans, I would kindly disagree. And oh, how I listened. And listened night in and night out because it was fun to with the two cans. And into the next the month because I could.
   
  But with how I hear, my ability to hear and my preferences for what I want to hear simply returned no similarities. Doesn't mean that others would agree with me. But this is my post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and they didn't.
   
  I also disagree (and strongly) with Herd Mentality - _how about individuals going with what they like?_ Rather than what others are _saying or doing_ and especially The Flav of the Month thang! Sell the D7000..... since many people say..... the LCD-2 is better in basically every aspect??!!! _I've but one question in response, "On what day?!"_
   
  I ask, because inside _this_ listening room that wasn't the story at all, listening to both cans on the _WA 6 Special Edition_ and the Pioneer SX-650 - the D7000's stayed comfortably in their number one position. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me, the LCD-2 is fun, alluring and promising. Would make a great second can for me. So engaging, I never wanted to take them off. Though it has its strengths, it often left me wanting... and waiting... only to come up short.
   
  I would simply like to encourage members to listen. It's o.k. to take opinions into account, _but also take the time to listen..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Wow, this thread flies... I waited a day or so to reply to this and it was buried wayyyy back... sorry for the delay.
> 
> When I say it's warm I mean it only in a very subtle sense.  It's a bit smoother than something that generally is considered a bit more analytical and cold like the Benchmark.  To my ears, these are pretty subtle differences.  The Stello still produces some very accurate and detailed sound, but you might find things rolling off slightly at the high end...  And yes, the sound of your system is the sum of the parts, so a slightly warmer DAC can add to an already warm tube amp sound.  That said, I think the 6SE is not a very tubey sounding amp (although you can select some tubes to lean in that direction if you like that sound), so using something like the DA100 isn't going to let you down by being too slow and lacking detail.


 


  x2.
   
  Some had concerns for me when I paired an MHDT Labs Balanced Havana DAC with my _WA 6 Special Edition. _But because the Woo isn't tubey, the DAC provided me with just a hint of _warmth and magic._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There is certainly a lot of support for going 6SN7 with the 6SE.  I thought I'd throw out that there are still a few of us who haven't gone down that road (yet) and we're finding good results with other options.
> 
> Instead of getting the 6SN7 adapters I opted for the 6DN7 adapter.  I've been pretty pleased with the results, especially with the HE5-LE.
> 
> ...


 

  
  The Monster Power Pro 2500 is _down-the-street! _I'm replacing it with the APC H10 AV 1kVA "H" Type Power Conditioner; arrives Wednesday (I hope). I know we have a meet coming up in February. But if I like what I hear by Mid-January, I'll bring my entire rig to your place or meet you fully set up inside the library. And we both know, if I end up seeing Clayton next month, I need only to bring my cans.


----------



## danska

Well unfortunately I have an older WA6 that cannot run the 6SN7 adapters I received today. The 6F8Gs, as you saw earlier fit great because the adapter tapers down, whereas the 6SN7 adapters do not.
   
  Good news for someone else is that I have a set of Glenn's adapters and literally NOS Sylvania Chrome Domes I was planning on running. Good thing for me is that the 6F8G driver will do the job for now.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats it?!?!?
> if so thats awesome.


 


  Yes, the SN is all you need.  Go to their website and register.  If you have any questions give them a call or send an email (it can take a while to get a response).  It is a wonderful company.


----------



## Leon83

Hello fellow Woo owners. (Tube novice here). Is there anyone here who uses D5000 (or D7000) with the WA6?
 Which drive/power tubes would suit the Denons?
  I've just bought a pair of 7N7 (and a Sophia Princess) from Jack. I've read that the 7N7 is a bit on the bright side. Are the D5000s considered as bright aswell? So bright + bright = extra bright?
   
  (semi-off-topic, just adding a photo)


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





danska said:


> So I got home an hour ago, and was very pleasantly suprised to find my 6F8G and 6SN7 adapters waiting for me!
> 
> Right off the first few tracks I listened to, I noticed how much of an improvement the 6F8Gs are to the stock tubes. A much more spread out sound-stage, much better instrument timbre, more layered depth to vocals. I haven't tried the 6SN7s yet, gonna listen to these Tung-Sols for a bit. Will give some more impressions over the next few days as I get some more listening in.
> 
> If you like female jazz vocalists check out Melody Gardot, she sounds great through this set-up.


 

 Sorry, nebbish question. But, what are the wires that are hooked up to the tubes? And does anyone know why some people put rings around their tubes? What's the reason behind that?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





leon83 said:


> Hello fellow Woo owners. (Tube novice here). Is there anyone here who uses D5000 (or D7000) with the WA6?
> Which drive/power tubes would suit the Denons?
> I've just bought a pair of 7N7 (and a Sophia Princess) from Jack. I've read that the 7N7 is a bit on the bright side. Are the D5000s considered as bright aswell? So bright + bright = extra bright?
> 
> (semi-off-topic, just adding a photo)


 


  No, I wouldn't consider the D5000 or D7000 to be bright (owned both). My October 2010 audition: D5000-WA6SE-GE 7N7-Sophia Princess.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





leon83 said:


> Hello fellow Woo owners. (Tube novice here). Is there anyone here who uses D5000 (or D7000) with the WA6?
> Which drive/power tubes would suit the Denons?
> I've just bought a pair of 7N7 (and a Sophia Princess) from Jack. I've read that the 7N7 is a bit on the bright side. Are the D5000s considered as bright aswell? So bright + bright = extra bright?
> 
> (semi-off-topic, just adding a photo)


 

 Yes, I have the D7000s and they are treble bright (sibilant) much less so than the D2000s (previously owned), I assume the D5000s might be a little brighter than the 7000s from what I read. That said, I just ordered the WA6 and the 6SN7 from jack instead of the 7N7 for that exact reason, the 7N7s have a tendency to be a bit bright unless you are able to find a really old/good pair (which from my research isn't that easy to find.. hence why I went with the 6SN7s). I should get my unit in with the Sophia and the 6SN7s in next week (they were just shipped today).. So I'll keep you posted. I'm personally looking for a warmer sound so these comments are based on what I am looking for.. I asked jack this same question and he gave me a general response "the 7N7 and 6SN7 are both notable upgrades to the treble," I guess that means better range and separation...? haha I dunno. Either way it seems like the Denons are supposed to pair well with the WA6 so good choice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Yes, I have the D7000s and they are treble bright (sibilant) much less so than the D2000s (previously owned), I assume the D5000s might be a little brighter than the 7000s from what I read. That said, I just ordered the WA6 and the 6SN7 from jack instead of the 7N7 for that exact reason, the 7N7s have a tendency to be a bit bright unless you are able to find a really old/good pair (which from my research isn't that easy to find.. hence why I went with the 6SN7s). I should get my unit in with the Sophia and the 6SN7s in next week (they were just shipped today).. So I'll keep you posted. I'm personally looking for a warmer sound so these comments are based on what I am looking for.. I asked jack this same question and he gave me a general response "the 7N7 and 6SN7 are both notable upgrades to the treble," I guess that means better range and separation...? haha I dunno. Either way it seems like the Denons are supposed to pair well with the WA6 so good choice.


 

 The D7000's might very well be sibilant. But mine were re-cabled at purchase and are not, so really no idea what the stock cable sounds like. What's more, the WA6/6SE/Tubes & Headphones are at the end of the line. Preceding them, you have your Front-end/Source/Interconnects, and they will (or could) have a say in how bright your system sounds as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Sorry, nebbish question. But, what are the wires that are hooked up to the tubes? And does anyone know why some people put rings around their tubes? What's the reason behind that?


 


  1) Grid wires    2) To minimize microphonic feedback.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The D7000's might very well be sibilant. But mine were re-cabled at purchase and are not, so really no idea what the stock cable sounds like. What's more, the WA6/6SE/Tubes & Headphones are at the end of the line. Preceding them, you have your Front-end/Source/Interconnects, and they will (or could) have a say in how bright your system sounds as well.


 


  true to an extent, for example, in my experience the Nuforce Icon HDP made my Denons seem very very sibilant, same with the Music Hall Dac25.3, while the Peachtree Audio Decco2 only had a hint of sibilance. This tells me the amp and dac have a lot to do with how these guys sound.. my current dac is on the neutral to warm side so I'm expecting a positive change with the WA6.. Either way, I'll be getting my unit soon and will post my impressions. Also from my understanding the stock D7000s cables are already very good, changing them shouldn't have made a night and day difference, maybe not as much as the D2000s (for example).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> true to an extent, for example, in my experience the Nuforce Icon HDP made my Denons seem very very sibilant, same with the Music Hall Dac25.3, while the Peachtree Audio Decco2 only had a hint of sibilance. This tells me the amp and dac have a lot to do with how these guys sound.. my current dac is on the neutral to warm side so I'm expecting a positive change with the WA6.. Either way, I'll be getting my unit soon and will post my impressions. Also from my understanding the stock D7000s cables are already very good, changing them shouldn't have made a night and day difference, maybe not as much as the D2000s (for example).


 

 Very excited about your forthcoming goodies. I know the stock cables to be of good quality - my D5000 cables were stock. To be clear, I never mention there being a night & day difference. But merely pointed out my cans were shipped re-cabled, so I've no idea what stock sounds like. Additionally, _Everything Matters... _I could easily find _sibilance_ from a future upgrade somewhere in the chain if I'm not careful or lucky. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hopefully, as we all add and subtract from our systems, we'll maintain or improve and not go in the other direction.


----------



## danska

So if anyone watching this thread wants a set of Glenn's WA6 6SN7 adapters, I will be selling mine in the next few days. I'm offering them up for what I paid for them, shoot me a pm.
   
  Make sure you don't have an older model that has the small inlets for the driver tubes.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Very excited about your forthcoming goodies. I know the stock cables to be of good quality - my D5000 cables were stock. To be clear, I never mention there being a night & day difference. But merely pointed out my cans were shipped re-cabled, so I've no idea what stock sounds like. Additionally, _Everything Matters... _I could easily find _sibilance_ from a future upgrade somewhere in the chain if I'm not careful or lucky.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha yea I'm excited too! sorry, I misread your earlier post, didn't know yours arrived recabled (makes sense). Really curious about how much of a difference the 6SN7s will make vs the stock tubes..


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 1) Grid wires    2) To minimize microphonic feedback.


 


  And according to Google the grid wires control the amount of gain and noise feedback?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> And according to Google the grid wires control the amount of gain and noise feedback?


 

  
  Back in the day (1930's?) this was one way they achieved isolating the tube's output circuitry from the input circuit more effectively. I've long seen tubes that use grid cap wires and always felt they were unattractive; that I would_ never_ use any of those with my gear. Once Clayton SF posted pix of the beautiful anode wires falling gracefully down into their adapters, I fell in love. And had to have one!
   
  I think the reason for this complete turn-a-round was the wonderful aesthetics of the Woo amp. And previous amps just not looking so good that had them.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





danska said:


> So if anyone watching this thread wants a set of Glenn's WA6 6SN7 adapters, I will be selling mine in the next few days. I'm offering them up for what I paid for them, shoot me a pm.
> 
> Make sure you don't have an older model that has the small inlets for the driver tubes.


 

  
  I'm interested, esp since I'm basically 3 hours away north of you.  I'm hoping to make my amp more tubey.  Gotta file through this thread again to find impressions.
   
  Tung sol 6sn7gt bgrp are the tubes that people recommend for that setup for a woo audio 6 right?  Is there are reason why some of it cost around 200-400 dollars while others cost 70?


----------



## Gwarmi

Exciting times in Melbourne ~ the Woo Audio shipment arrived at Addicted To Audio!
   
  Spent the whole afternoon with a basic Woo 6 (silver) 
   
  Quite an impressive amp, can't wait until the WA22 gets un-boxed for the audition room next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The special times with Woo down under roll on!
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/580720/aussie-nz-head-fiers-corner/180


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Is there are reason why some of it cost around 200-400 dollars while others cost 70?


 

 The Tung-Sol (BGRP)  is one of, if not the best 6SN7 ever made. They are highly sought after and are somewhat rare to find in true NOS condition and packaging. I prefer the oval plate variant of the so called *B*lack *G*lass *R*ound *P*late. They are excellent tube$ IMO.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> The Tung-Sol (BGRP)  is one of, if not the best 6SN7 ever made. They are highly sought after and are somewhat rare to find in true NOS condition and packaging. I prefer the oval plate variant of the so called *B*lack *G*lass *R*ound *P*late. They are excellent tube$ IMO.


 


  But there are newer Russian (I believe) Tung Sols that are much cheaper... and I've read they don't sound all that great... I'm assuming you are specifically commenting on the BGRP which are rare.


----------



## Leon83

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Either way it seems like the Denons are supposed to pair well with the WA6 so good choice.


 


  Just what I needed to hear. Awesome that you have (soon will have) a similar setup of amp/tubes/headphones.
   
  Yesterday I listened to the stock 6DR7s with the Sophia, after 4 weeks with the 7N7s... and then later back to the 7N7s again. They really are superior. Much better soundstage and overall sound quality. For instance the typical texture (so to say) of the sound of a saxophone (Joey Defrancesco Plays Sinatra His Way - Angel Eyes) is more present with the 7N7s.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Exciting times in Melbourne ~ the Woo Audio shipment arrived at Addicted To Audio!
> 
> Spent the whole afternoon with a basic Woo 6 (silver)
> 
> ...


 

 Woo Audio --
   





  There's so much excitement Down Under, I wouldn't be surprised if customers threw a party _@ Addicted To Audio!_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

another rs1 update for me.
   
  is it just me, or is the rs1 really good for house/techno music.
   
  the mid and upper bass on these is just great. very punchy, tight, and fast.
   
  new favorite house/techno cans lol. and the warm sound really makes it enjoyable. only problem is grados are very revealing (similar to my pro 900s). thats why sometimes i just use hd 650s for electronic lol.
   
   
  they can't do drum and bass or dubstep tho since grado doesn't have deep bass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> another rs1 update for me.
> 
> is it just me, or is the rs1 really good for house/techno music.
> 
> ...


 






  A headphone... without deep bass?  _Next!      _I know you're a Grado Girl too, so, we're just funnin' Dubstep Girl...


----------



## jamesnz

If I already own a WA6SE, is it worth getting a WA3? One has come up second hand (built in April)  on our equivalent of eBay in NZ for not that much.


----------



## jc9394

I recommend to save your money and spend it on tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A headphone... without deep bass?  _Next!      _I know you're a Grado Girl too, so, we're just funnin' Dubstep Girl...


 


   
  grado girl!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol
   
  Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> If I already own a WA6SE, is it worth getting a WA3? One has come up second hand (built in April)  on our equivalent of eBay in NZ for not that much.


 


  waste. the wa6se is on a whole nother level. definitely save your cash

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I recommend to save your money and spend it on tubes.


 

 +1


----------



## jerico

jc9394 said:


> Coming from Treasure owner, still have it.  I recommend to cancel this if it is not shipped, for $250, you can get something better.  Like, NU 6F8G or TS 6F8G with adapter.




+1

Sorry for late reply - been too busy listening to music! - they sound ok (a little too dry to me) but for the price - and considerably less - there are a whole lot better NOS out there.

I put the Treasures back into my 22 recently, and gave them a few weeks to settle and for me to acclimate - I ended up going back to my trusty Ken-Rad VT231, quite happily. I think Jack is even selling VT231s as an upgrade tube for the 22 on the Woo website now.

YMMV, but $250 for these tubes is pretty excessive, IMHO.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jerico said:


> +1
> Sorry for late reply - been too busy listening to music! - they [cv181-z] sound ok (a little too dry to me) but for the price - and considerably less - there are a whole lot better NOS out there.
> I put the Treasures back into my 22 recently, and gave them a few weeks to settle and for me to acclimate - I ended up going back to my trusty Ken-Rad VT231, quite happily. I think Jack is even selling VT231s as an upgrade tube for the 22 on the Woo website now.
> YMMV, but $250 for these tubes is pretty excessive, IMHO.


 
   
  The VT231 pair Woo sells are $280 (RCA).
   
  Sadly, a matched pair of Tung-Sol or Ken-Rad VT231 is typically $300-$400.


----------



## jamesnz

Cheers for that, will save the money and put it towards some new headphones or a cat.


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Cheers for that, *will save the money and put it towards some new headphones or a cat.*


 


   That's gold!~ 
   
   Most hilarious comment today by a long shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   "Hmmm, Siamese or a Grado GS1000i..Hmmm yes"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> That's gold!~
> 
> Most hilarious comment today by a long shot
> 
> ...


 







  For that kind of dough, that cat better be able to play Jazz... wait, different kinda cat! O.k, then this cat better be one of those rare breeds from Egypt.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> If I already own a WA6SE, is it worth getting a WA3? One has come up second hand (built in April)  on our equivalent of eBay in NZ for not that much.


 


  I'm neutral and would want to look at both sides if I were in your position. Only you could define what that _worth_ means to you. I'm not suggesting the WA3 is superior to what we've got and this would be my point - it could return another listening experience for you. Much in the same way members roll tubes and have more than one type of headphone, amp or DAC. If the price is attractive, this amp could compliment your 6 SE.
   
  Before you pull up that cat online ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just joking, james) why not send my guy "BIG POPPA" a PM. He's our resident WA3 extraordinaire. He's got one Fitted & Kitted: Black gates; HiTech Supreme fuse; Marconi tubes. And he does Head-Fi meets, so he know's his Woo's even outside the '3' model. 
   
  I recommend you Bookmark the page for the cat and let BIG POPPA weigh-in first.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jerico said:


> +1
> Sorry for late reply - been too busy listening to music! - they sound ok (a little too dry to me) but for the price - and considerably less - there are a whole lot better NOS out there.
> I put the Treasures back into my 22 recently, and gave them a few weeks to settle and for me to acclimate - I ended up going back to my trusty Ken-Rad VT231, quite happily. I think Jack is even selling VT231s as an upgrade tube for the 22 on the Woo website now.
> YMMV, but $250 for these tubes is pretty excessive, IMHO.


 


   


  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> The VT231 pair Woo sells are $280 (RCA).
> 
> Sadly, a matched pair of Tung-Sol or Ken-Rad VT231 is typically $300-$400.


 

 Picked up a pair of matched Ken Rad VT231s on Thursday...hopefully should be here before Christmas...oh and I paid much less than $300-400. Right now, my favourite driver tubes are the RCA Smoked Glass VT231, then the Sylvania 5692 (brown base) and the Shuguang Treasures. Interesting to see where the Ken Rad's will fit in.


----------



## snapple10

Thanks *SilentOne*.
   
  I need help with getting tube recommendations for my WA6SE.
   
  I have had it since Feb 2011.*  *Previous owner*, Audiogalore *was very a God sent
   
  My stuff:
   
  DAC: DLIII
  Phones: Grado 325i, T1, LCD-2 rev.1, HD600, HD 650
  amp: WA6SE
  tubes: Sophia and 6EW7
  Music: listen to everything but more rock, reggae, jazz, country
  run PC/ Mac ( still learning formats here) >wireworld  usb 2.0 > DLIII> wirewolrld eclipse 6>WA6SE>  phones OR
  Cd player > DAC> amp> phones
   
  My question: which tubes can I get? I will like to get tubes that does the phones justice.  I have read this thread thru but I need a  little more  help with selections.
   
  Thanks in advance for your help


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Thanks *SilentOne*.
> 
> I need help with getting tube recommendations for my WA6SE.
> 
> ...


 


  I remember Audiogalore, hope all is well. I am only familiar with the sound of the stock drive tubes (RCA 6EW7) but none of the variants (w/Sophia Princess). And I'm familiar with all of your gear but none of your headphones, save the LCD-2. Bringing you here is the best I could for now. I know more members will contribute shortly (over the weekend). I love your WW Eclipse 6's!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Picked up a pair of matched Ken Rad VT231s on Thursday...hopefully should be here before Christmas...oh and I paid much less than $300-400.


 

 OK . . . spill . . . from where and how much?
   
  I got mine some years ago, but would happily consider another high quality matched set.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> OK . . . spill . . . from where and how much?
> 
> I got mine some years ago, but would happily consider another high quality matched set.


 

 How's this...got them matched (almost identical in readings), measure NOS for $76 shipped.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> How's this...got them matched (almost identical in readings), measure NOS for $76 shipped.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> How's this...got them matched (almost identical in readings), measure NOS for $76 shipped.


 

 Nice.    It will be fun to learn how you place them in the pantheon.
   
  The pricey ones I was thinking of are the Tung-Sol VT231.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Nice.    It will be fun to learn how you place them in the pantheon.
> 
> The pricey ones I was thinking of are the Tung-Sol VT231.


 

 I'm scouting down a pair of Tung-Sol VT231s....have been for while now. I shall report back on the Ken Rads when they arrive.


----------



## Ahzari

I have a 18 awg power cord laying around (think from a old desktop).. should I get something beefier like a 14 awg or is what I have going to be fine to fully drive the WA6? Don't plan on spending big bucks on a power cable (either way)..


----------



## Austin Morrow

I'm seriously dying to get my WA6SE... WHY CAN'T JANUARY COME SOONER? HURRY UP!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I have a 18 awg power cord laying around (think from a old desktop).. should I get something beefier like a 14 awg or is what I have going to be fine to fully drive the WA6? Don't plan on spending big bucks on a power cable (either way)..


 


  If you're going to get a Woo, why dilly dally around with the cord? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Go 14awg and be done with it. It need not be pricey...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I'm seriously dying to get my WA6SE... WHY CAN'T JANUARY COME SOONER? HURRY UP!


 


  Admittedly, I am torn. Wanna see you unite with your Woo.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But your delivery signals the end of Egg Nog season. _Still very excited for you..._


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Admittedly, I am torn. Wanna see you unite with your Woo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks. Yeah, Jack's a real nice guy. I honestly can't wait to hear how it pairs with the HD650 and the Q701.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If you're going to get a Woo, why dilly dally around with the cord?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  right you are ... now another question... should I get a 16 awg hospital grade or 14 awg universal cable.. I don't really know the difference for hospital grade (I assume its some standard) but from what I looked up there war no 14 awg hospital grades selling online. Any advice?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Thanks *SilentOne*.
> 
> I need help with getting tube recommendations for my WA6SE.
> 
> ...


 

 im very happy with my sophia and raytheon 6ew7 combo right now. only thing better for tubes that i can think of is silentones short moment with the 6sn7 (you need an adaptor), he had the super rare tung sol black glass round plate nos 6sn7 tubes as well as the EML 5U4G mesh tube. i've been dying to try it out, but its expensive and i'm happy with what i have now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im very happy with my sophia and raytheon 6ew7 combo right now. only thing better for tubes that i can think of is silentones short moment with the 6sn7 (you need an adaptor), he had the super rare tung sol black glass round plate nos 6sn7 tubes as well as the EML 5U4G mesh tube. i've been dying to try it out, but its expensive and i'm happy with what i have now.


 


  I was being reserved by not recommending 6SN7 tubes & adapters to her until others weighed-in. I haven't any idea what her headphones sound like or tubes that can lift them higher. I do know that you and others have those cans (well, I ran the LCD-2 but...) and would be in a better position to get her to the next level.





 
   
  I brought kitty in from the cold outside - now Dual-booting Snow Leopard along side Lion on the internal Solid-state drive and the Tung-Sol's have emerged under Snow Leopard/Amarra. I'm still assembling and tweaking a new Linux audio system and potentially it could surpass both cats and Amarra. We'll see! Late last night, I came real close to posting a pix of my former EML Glass on the side of a milk carton. But I didn't have enough reward money...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> right you are ... now another question... should I get a 16 awg hospital grade or 14 awg universal cable.. I don't really know the difference for hospital grade (I assume its some standard) but from what I looked up there war no 14 awg hospital grades selling online. Any advice?


 


  The Hospital Grade cable meets a standard for use in hospital and medical settings and applications. It could work out fine, but personally I would go with the 14 awg universal.


----------



## jerico

wapiti said:


> The VT231 pair Woo sells are $280 (RCA).
> 
> Sadly, a matched pair of Tung-Sol or Ken-Rad VT231 is typically $300-$400.




Check around though (dealers, eBay) - you can find such tubes far cheaper (not the Tung-Sols, I'm talking about "mere mortal" VT231s). I have several pairs - mostly Ken-Rad, and a few Sylvania - that I've managed to get for around $90-120 per pair.


----------



## flaming_june

The tung sol black glass still goes around 100-150 on ebay it seems.  Are they still different from the black glass folks were talking about before that are sold for 400?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Check around though (dealers, eBay) - you can find such tubes far cheaper (not the Tung-Sols, I'm talking about "mere mortal" VT231s). I have several pairs - mostly Ken-Rad, and a few Sylvania - that I've managed to get for around $90-120 per pair.


 

 Good point. 
   
  Some good dealers, like Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio, have not stocked them for quite some time.  I suspect the supply is getting thin.


----------



## snapple10

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im very happy with my sophia and raytheon 6ew7 combo right now. only thing better for tubes that i can think of is silentones short moment with the 6sn7 (you need an adaptor), he had the super rare tung sol black glass round plate nos 6sn7 tubes as well as the EML 5U4G mesh tube. i've been dying to try it out, but its expensive and i'm happy with what i have now.


 


 Good to know my other option. thanks.


----------



## spinn74

Looking for some feedback here.. WA6-SE with all the upgraded tubes or WA5-LE without any upgrades (for now.) Pairing with LCD-2's, will the WA5-LE still sound much better without any parts/tube upgrades?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Looking for some feedback here.. WA6-SE with all the upgraded tubes or WA5-LE without any upgrades (for now.) Pairing with LCD-2's, will the WA5-LE still sound much better without any parts/tube upgrades?


 

 You can ask a more educated Woo fanboy (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), but their two totally different amps that are double the price. I'm pretty sure a maxed out WA6SE won't be able to compete with a standard WA5LE... Just my 2 cents from common sense. But please, If I'm wrong, crucify me.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats it?!?!?
> if so thats awesome.
> 
> also noob question.
> ...


 


 V rms would equal 3.14 Vrms
   
  Voltage = square root of (Power times impedance)


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Looking for some feedback here.. WA6-SE with all the upgraded tubes or WA5-LE without any upgrades (for now.) Pairing with LCD-2's, will the WA5-LE still sound much better without any parts/tube upgrades?


 

 They are both nice. 
   
  The WA5 has more texture to the sound and a certain effortlessness.  Tubes do change the sound, but the circuit and tube type makes a greater difference to me. 
   
  Keep in mind that the WA5 is much more expensive to re-tube.  As mine sits at the moment, I could have purchased a WA6-SE with upgrades for the cost of the tubes alone.
   
  What type of sound do you want and what are you going to be powering?  "Better" differs for each person.


----------



## danska

I borrowed a Rega DAC from my local dealer for the weekend. I wanted to home demo a DAC like this for a while, as its hard to compare things in stores to what I have at home.
   
  I ran into what I believe is a bit of a shortcomings with the unit and my system. My sound card only outputs SPDIF over a mini-toslink cable. I didn't realize this as I hadn't ever used that port before, when I saw SPDIF I figured 75ohm RCA connection, but no! Do you guys think this is going to be a limiting factor overall? The Rega does do USB but only to the tune of 16/48. Of course I can run SPDIF out of my Rega Apollo and have great results, but I really want the DAC for computer based files (up to 24/96).

 The other downside to the unit is a proprietary power cable (doesn't use a regular IEC). This limits power cable options somewhat.
   
  On the positive side, this thing sounds pretty amazing compared to my Soundblaster X-Fi HD. Much better sense of space of instruments, fantastic PRAT, black backgrounds, everything is better. I'm definitely impressed by it, but need to weigh out the negative aspects when preparing to spend near $1k on a DAC.
   
  If anyone can shed light on wether the mini-toslink side of things could be a limiting factor in my case I'd appreciate it. I certainly have to consider other DACs if I want to something better equipped to convert USB streams.


----------



## john57

The mini-toslink is unlikely to be any disadvantage over the full size toslink. I usually find the mini-toslink as an combination to the 3.5mm jack. There can be a difference in SQ of optical vs coax in some DAC's


----------



## Wapiti

Mini v. regular optical will make little difference, but you will want to upgrade to a better card or motherboard at some point that has either a coax or other output. 
   
  Cheap RCA is easier to do reasonably well than cheap optical.  Good optical requires better lenses, better cabling, etc.  This gets pricey. (Really cheap optical is inexpensive.  This is why it is the standard on very affordable equipment and why most believe optical is a bad interface.)


----------



## danska

Thanks for the info. I guess as a disclaimer, I'm not going to be changing anything with my computer anytime soon. Far too many other things to do before that day comes. I'm still a vinyl guy overall, I just simply don't have enough 24/96 and FLAC music to justify even spending anything beyond the $1k price point.


----------



## jerico

wapiti said:


> Good point.
> 
> Some good dealers, like Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio, have not stocked them for quite some time.  I suspect the supply is getting thin.






I might have bought them all!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> The tung sol black glass still goes around 100-150 on ebay it seems.  Are they still different from the black glass folks were talking about before that are sold for 400?


 


   
  These are typically over $400 / pair NOS.


----------



## Rawrbington

got Fleetwood Macs rumours from HDTRACKS. 24/96
  ohh boy.
  to say it sounds very good is an understatement.
  wow.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> I borrowed a Rega DAC from my local dealer for the weekend. I wanted to home demo a DAC like this for a while, as its hard to compare things in stores to what I have at home.
> 
> I ran into what I believe is a bit of a shortcomings with the unit and my system. My sound card only outputs SPDIF over a mini-toslink cable. I didn't realize this as I hadn't ever used that port before, when I saw SPDIF I figured 75ohm RCA connection, but no! Do you guys think this is going to be a limiting factor overall? The Rega does do USB but only to the tune of 16/48. Of course I can run SPDIF out of my Rega Apollo and have great results, but I really want the DAC for computer based files (up to 24/96).
> 
> ...


 

 Options --
   
  You have options, of course it will involve more decision making, but what's not to love?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  What computer platform are you using? One option (and a very good one, I might add) would be to use a USB Bridge. This would allow you to come out of the computer via USB and in to the Bridge. And from there (the bridge) your selected bridge model may allow for both Optical & Coax into the Rega DAC (a fine DAC, as I understand from fellow members). 
   
  This move would allow you the full resolution of 24/192 kHz playback. I currently use a USB Bridge in my system - this allows me to use my Mac, PC, WA6SE, Pioneer SX-650, DAC-1 & E-MU USB Interface all with great flexibility.
   
  What's more, once the signal is re-clocked by the bridge, the quality of both the Coax & Optical are equal. And Optical can allow the Rega to output 24/192 kHz. Toslink (Optical) out of the computer would face a limitation of 24/96 kHz. Technically, Toslink can do 150-170 kHz. But the problem is once you leave 96 kHz, the next stop for many DACs is 176.4 kHz, so it's moot.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I might have bought them all!


 







  Looking back, you were rather quiet (suspiciously so) while you watched me diggin' and scratchin', searchin' high & low. You could have saved me a great deal of agony with your disclosure. What, we no friendly no mo'?!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> got Fleetwood Macs rumours from HDTRACKS. 24/96
> ohh boy.
> to say it sounds very good is an understatement.
> wow.


 


  Been meaning to grab that and a couple of other things from HDtracks.  Sounds like they mastered the HD version right.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Been meaning to grab that and a couple of other things from HDtracks.  Sounds like they mastered the HD version right.


 


  they did something.
  not sure how, given the story of the original tapes of that album.  maybe they just mastered the digital version, not sure. 
  but i compared it directly to my flac rip of my dads cd and the HDtrack version was louder, and just a lot more something.  depth?  energy? i can't describe it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Been meaning to grab that and a couple of other things from HDtracks.  Sounds like they mastered the HD version right.


 

  
  HDTracks --
   
  I recently grabbed Stevie Wonder - Innervisions (1973). They did a very good job on the transfer. Since Stevie owns all of his Masters, he was seen walking the tapes in himself (obviously, with some assistance...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


----------



## Rawrbington

thats awesome.
  and really a HD Tracks rip of an album in 24/96 is on a whole different planet than an amatuers vinyl 24/96 rip.
  if the amateur has nice equipment it will sound pretty good, but you still get a nice copy of every imperfection on their vinyl.  and in high depth/sample at that!
  but i do appreciate the effort, hdtracks just does it much much better
   
  im almost of the opinion that a 16/44.1 flac CD rip is better than an amateurs 24/96 vinyl rip


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





danska said:


> I borrowed a Rega DAC from my local dealer for the weekend. I wanted to home demo a DAC like this for a while, as its hard to compare things in stores to what I have at home.
> 
> I ran into what I believe is a bit of a shortcomings with the unit and my system. My sound card only outputs SPDIF over a mini-toslink cable. I didn't realize this as I hadn't ever used that port before, when I saw SPDIF I figured 75ohm RCA connection, but no! Do you guys think this is going to be a limiting factor overall? The Rega does do USB but only to the tune of 16/48. Of course I can run SPDIF out of my Rega Apollo and have great results, but I really want the DAC for computer based files (up to 24/96).
> 
> ...


 


  
   
  This was my Rega DAC USB solution ~ you'll never look back if you can get one at a good price, not cheap but the
  other SPDIF converters are not quite in the same league of performance.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Been meaning to grab that and a couple of other things from HDtracks.  Sounds like they mastered the HD version right.


 
   
  Leaving aside the many albums they sold as high resolution that were not, they don't remaster the recordings nor does Chesky do the re-sampling.  This is done by others, such as transcoding a SACD to 96/24.
   
  To their credit, they did acknowledge the standard resolution recordings parading as high resolution and now have a mastering house checking what comes in to make sure it is high resolution.
   
  Edit: The album itself was remastered, of course.  It is both less compressed than the original (which was not overly compressed to start) and has higher peaks.  This alone gives it more punch and better sound.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> got Fleetwood Macs rumours from HDTRACKS. 24/96
> ohh boy.
> to say it sounds very good is an understatement.
> wow.


 

 I have Rumours and Say You Will in DVD-Audio. I up load them directly to my computer. I also grabbed the "White" album, Tusk, Mirage and Tango in the night all on 24/192 from HDTracks. I am a huge Fleetwood Mac fan from this cast.


----------



## Rawrbington

is the "white" album self titled or are you refering to the beatles album?
  i really want the self titled to go along with rumours


----------



## danska

I know Hoffman did the vinyl remaster in 2009, and it was released earlier this year. I now own four copies of that album, damn them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The double 45rpm is an amazing piece, the 33rpm version is quite good too. If anyone is interested in the 45 buy it now, they only made 2k copies or so IIRC. $50 for it now or $100 next year!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Looking for some feedback here.. WA6-SE with all the upgraded tubes or WA5-LE without any upgrades (for now.) Pairing with LCD-2's, will the WA5-LE still sound much better without any parts/tube upgrades?


 


  I would go wit the WA5-LE hands down. You can upgrade tubes anytime later.
  I was originally planning to buy a WA22 because I was running all my systems and headphones balanced but comparing both side by side and after a conversation with Jack himself he convinced me to go with the WA5-LE and I've been ver happy since. 
  You may have to spend some money to upgrade the 300B tubes but you can upgrade the drivers and rectifiers for not that much.
  Right now I am running EML 300B Mesh, TS black glass/round plates 6F8G and 596 rectifiers.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Options --
> 
> You have options, of course it will involve more decision making, but what's not to love?!
> 
> ...


 

 I don't really have anything over 24/96 for the moment, only two albums in 24/192. I have a windows 7 tower and a Thinkpad x220 that I only occasionally use. That makes perfect sense going with a bridge.
   
  I tell you what this Rega Apollo/Rega DAC through my El34 amp and B&W CM7s sounds amazing. Puts the cd source much closer to my analog rig, and at probably about 1/3 of the cost. The only issue is I don't really have anything to compare it to. I had a KingRex U384 for about a week that I got in a local trade, and wasn't too impressed by. I imagine it would sound better using the SPDIF from that thing, but I bought my WA6 with that money! I am inclined to go with the Rega as I can get a new one for $850, and I've always liked their products (I own(ed) a bunch of their stuff).


----------



## jerico

silent one said:


> h34r:   Looking back, you were rather quiet (suspiciously so) while you watched me diggin' and scratchin', searchin' high & low. You could have saved me a great deal of agony with your disclosure. What, we no friendly no mo'?!




Alas, the demands of life got hold of me for too long! That, and i was on a vinyl kick and was spending more time with my speaker rig and neglecting my Woo!


----------



## Wapiti

The Rega is a fine choice.  There are oodles of DACs in the $500 - $1,000 range now so take your time and do some careful shopping.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Leaving aside the many albums they sold as high resolution that were not, they don't remaster the recordings nor does Chesky do the re-sampling.  This is done by others, such as transcoding a SACD to 96/24.
> 
> To their credit, they did acknowledge the standard resolution recordings parading as high resolution and now have a mastering house checking what comes in to make sure it is high resolution.
> 
> Edit: The album itself was remastered, of course.  It is both less compressed than the original (which was not overly compressed to start) and has higher peaks.  This alone gives it more punch and better sound.


 


  It is this reason why customers have indicted HDTracks on two counts: failing to provide provenance and misrepresenting what's for sale. Post hire, things have still slipped through because really, there isn't a defined standard of what High Definition is yet.... and Chesky has used this to his advantage. And yes, I'm a customer. I've seen none of my fellow members hoodwinked by iTrax, 2L and other sites yet, so HDtracks simply needs to be honest.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And stand behind that sales pitch on the website.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I would go wit the WA5-LE hands down. You can upgrade tubes anytime later.
> I was originally planning to buy a WA22 because I was running all my systems and headphones balanced but comparing both side by side and after a conversation with Jack himself he convinced me to go with the WA5-LE and I've been ver happy since.
> You may have to spend some money to upgrade the 300B tubes but you can upgrade the drivers and rectifiers for not that much.
> Right now I am running EML 300B Mesh, TS black glass/round plates 6F8G and 596 rectifiers.


 

 x2!  I'd get the WA5-LE and sort everything else out around it. Including the cans if need be...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Alas, the demands of life got hold of me for too long! That, and i was on a vinyl kick and was spending more time with my speaker rig and neglecting my Woo!


 


  Ok, that's good enough for me!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> This was my Rega DAC USB solution ~ you'll never look back if you can get one at a good price, not cheap but the
> other SPDIF converters are not quite in the same league of performance.


 

 The brilliance with this selection is you could eliminate buying an expensive Coax cable. But the unit's price would still remain a factor for our member though - it could put him over the top of what he's willing to spend as a total.


----------



## Rawrbington

Denon 5000 or HD 650 to be played out of the WA2?
  thoughts or opinions please!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Thanks *SilentOne*.
> 
> I need help with getting tube recommendations for my WA6SE.
> 
> ...


 

 ***Advisory***
   
  Because the 'Unite' thread is a popular and fast moving one, I wanted to bring this member's post back to the front in hopes that others could contribute.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> they did something.
> not sure how, given the story of the original tapes of that album.  maybe they just mastered the digital version, not sure.
> but i compared it directly to my flac rip of my dads cd and the HDtrack version was louder, and just a lot more something.  depth?  energy? i can't describe it.


 


  When you say louder I hope they're not killing the dynamic range.  Of course there is more range to utilize with 24bit, but you'd think with this type of product and who it is aimed at the engineers would not be interested in participating in the loudness wars.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Leaving aside the many albums they sold as high resolution that were not, they don't remaster the recordings nor does Chesky do the re-sampling.  This is done by others, such as transcoding a SACD to 96/24.
> 
> To their credit, they did acknowledge the standard resolution recordings parading as high resolution and now have a mastering house checking what comes in to make sure it is high resolution.
> 
> Edit: The album itself was remastered, of course.  It is both less compressed than the original (which was not overly compressed to start) and has higher peaks.  This alone gives it more punch and better sound.


 
  Sounds like it is worth checking out.  Thanks!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Sounds like it is worth checking out.  Thanks!


 

 I'm not a fan of their music, but the Steve Hoffman remaster is quite nice.  It has more dynamic range than the original, with a greater crest factor.  Hoffman's masters tend to the warm side which many find appealing as well.  The remaster is 44/16, not high definition.  It is possible there is a legitimate high definition version available however.
   
  There is said to be a European remaster as well on 45 rpm vinyl that is airier and more open but I have not heard it.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I'm not a fan of their music, but the Steve Hoffman remaster is quite nice.  It has more dynamic range than the original, with a greater crest factor.  Hoffman's masters tend to the warm side which many find appealing as well.  The remaster is 44/16, not high definition.  It is possible there is a legitimate high definition version available however.
> 
> There is said to be a European remaster as well on 45 rpm vinyl that is airier and more open but I have not heard it.


 

 The copy I have is a Reprise release that is a product of the Gray/Hoffman remaster. It is pressed at Pallas in Germany. As I mentioned before buy one now, they didn't make many. I feel like its an album worth owning a few copies of anyhow. Luckily I don't have to even consider bit rates owning the analog copy, as it was cut from the original master tapes


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> When you say louder I hope they're not killing the dynamic range.  Of course there is more range to utilize with 24bit, but you'd think with this type of product and who it is aimed at the engineers would not be interested in participating in the loudness wars.


 


  not louder like a really loud cd.
  just a little louder than my original rip.
  the original was pretty quiet like a lot of old cd's were before the loudness war.  it still would have been a quiet sound in 1990.  but the HD Tracks sounds a little closer to a modern recording as far as loudness.  i will take note the next time i listen for the dynamic range of it.
  plus i really like the dynamics out of the wa2.
  much better than my wa3 was.


----------



## Ken Rosenberg

Please delete.


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





ken rosenberg said:


> Hi everyone, I'm in need of some help deciding between the WA3 and WA6 for my 600Ω DT 880s.
> 
> From what I've read, the WA3 is geared towards high impedance headphones with its OTL design, whereas the WA6 is more adaptable and can cater for a wider range of impedances. Now, because I only plan on driving 300-600Ω headphones (possibly HD 800 or T1 in the future) would the WA3 be a more suitable choice? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


 


   Tried the WA6 with the HD800's today and it was a fairly good match. Now not sure if anyone else can comment but this WA6 unit had
   30hrs or so on it, classical sounded airy and composed on the stock tubes, however I switched to PInk Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon
   and the vocals were really off, just completely unnatural. Still trying to get to the bottom of it.
   Lack of burn in? Bad match? HD800 does not like stock tubes? 
   
   Apologies for the spanner in the works but thought you might like to know.
   
   I'll road test the WA6 further but I don't recall such weird voicing with the HD800 and other amps, even the under achieving
   SPL Phonitor.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ugh. really hope my paycheck comes in the mail today... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  looks like suppliers have lcd-2 in stock again with 10 percent off on headphones.com and amazon has t1s for 999 right now....
   
  in the mean time, still waiting for my wa2 to ship. the tungsol 5998 should arrive this week as well..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ugh. really hope my paycheck comes in the mail today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 







 But, it has to come today, you're on the verge of something really really BIG. Besides, the closing of 3,500 Post Offices across the U.S. won't begin until 2012 (I am cheering for a reversal of fortunes by the USPS, by the way...).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Tried the WA6 with the HD800's today and it was a fairly good match. Now not sure if anyone else can comment but this WA6 unit had
> 30hrs or so on it, classical sounded airy and composed on the stock tubes, however I switched to PInk Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon
> and the vocals were really off, just completely unnatural. Still trying to get to the bottom of it.
> Lack of burn in? Bad match? HD800 does not like stock tubes?
> ...


 

 Time can only aid your pairing (HD800/WA6 w/DSOTM). Some pairings get off the ground early. Others will struggle. In my first 75 hours with stock 6EW7's, Miss Sophia and my WA6SE, I couldn't find anything in my library that was inspiring. But I knew my patience would be rewarded. And when it all finally began to emerge, I noticed different tracks _came on song_ at different times during burn-in.


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Time can only aid your pairing (HD800/WA6 w/DSOTM). Some pairings get off the ground early. Others will struggle. In my first 75 hours with stock 6EW7's, Miss Sophia and my WA6SE, I couldn't find anything in my library that was inspiring. But I knew my patience would be rewarded. And when it all finally began to emerge, I noticed different tracks _came on song_ at different times during burn-in.


 


  Thanks SilentOne ~ I shall persist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Still, the basic WA6 for $730 Aussie dollars is a cracking match for
  the HD800 ~ The Burson 160 solid state with the HD800 has been bested
  for a sub $800AUD amp spend.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Thanks SilentOne ~ I shall persist
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 






  Woo Audio amps bring value; good bang for the buck! And though these amps aren't for everyone, resale shouldn't be a problem at all. Enjoyed visiting your corner, yesterday...


----------



## hodgjy

As we sorta summarized in the other thread, both amps will work.  The WA6 is more flexible because its design uses the output transformer and can drive many headphones with no problem.  With stock tubes, it sounds the least "tubey" of the <$1500 Woo amps, but you can roll in some nice rectifiers to make it very tubey.  On the other hand, the WA3 is flexible because it uses some of the most abundant tube types on the planet.  You can roll in tubes to make it very solid state sounding or as tubey as you want.
   
  Based on what you said earlier, you said you were concerned about the tube sound.  If this is the case, perhaps look into the WA6 and leave the WA3 alone.  Or, look into solid state amps that provide good voltage swings.  High impedance cans need voltage more than current.  Perhaps look at the Schiit Asgard.  Or, for pure brute force, look at the hybrid Schiit Lyr.  Or, as another option, the Schiit Valhalla is a tube amp, so it will fuel the 600 ohm cans just fine, but it isn't very tubey sounding with the stock tubes.
  
  Quote: 





ken rosenberg said:


> Hi everyone, I'm in need of some help deciding between the WA3 and WA6 for my 600Ω DT 880s.
> 
> From what I've read, the WA3 is geared towards high impedance headphones with its OTL design, whereas the WA6 is more adaptable and can cater for a wider range of impedances. Now, because I only plan on driving 300-600Ω headphones (possibly HD 800 or T1 in the future) would the WA3 be a more suitable choice? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Woo Audio amps bring value; good bang for the buck! And though these amps aren't for everyone, resale shouldn't be a problem at all. Enjoyed visiting your corner, yesterday...


 


  haha.  I don't think tube amps have ever brought bang for the buck.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> haha.  I don't think tube amps have ever brought bang for the buck.


 












  Yeah, you're right. _But, all things considered..._
   
   
   
_@ _hodgjy
   
  Good to see you back inside the thread,"Happy Holidays!"


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> haha.  I don't think tube amps have ever brought bang for the buck.


 


  tube amps maybe not. WOO amps on the other hand, do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  listening to jack johnson right now with my rs1s. lovin'' the bass and the dynamics. the wa6se dynamics just come out at the right time lol.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> tube amps maybe not. WOO amps on the other hand, do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Hello Dubstep Girl. Did the Mailman cometh with the right stuff?


----------



## hodgjy

Glad to be back!  I got a new job during the summer and it had taken most of my waking hours.  Such is the life a a new tenure-track assistant professor.  Now, I'm on holiday, so I have time to get caught up around here
   
  Happy holidays to all!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah, you're right. _But, all things considered..._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hello Dubstep Girl. Did the Mailman cometh with the right stuff?


 


  just the grado pads.
   
  the woo hasn't shipped yet, hope i get it before christmas  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  waiting for my paycheck before i buy LCD-2/T1. won't get the 10 percent off the LCD-2 though if it comes late 
   
  and i bought some audioquest king cobra rca interconnects that i don't know when they'll arrive.
   
  and my tung sol 5998 should be here sometime this week as well.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> not louder like a really loud cd.
> just a little louder than my original rip.
> the original was pretty quiet like a lot of old cd's were before the loudness war.  it still would have been a quiet sound in 1990.  but the HD Tracks sounds a little closer to a modern recording as far as loudness.  i will take note the next time i listen for the dynamic range of it.
> plus i really like the dynamics out of the wa2.
> much better than my wa3 was.


 
   
  I just took a look at track 4, "Don't Stop," in 96/24. 
   
  The good news is that there is information from 20kHz to 48kHz.  I didn't check bit depth other than to see that all 24 are present. 
   
  The bad news is  it is a *lot* louder than the 44/16 remaster and compressed to achieve this overall loudness.  The 44/16 remaster sounds a good deal better.  I think the 96/24 version is taken from the original mix, not the remaster.
   
  Buy the 44/16 remaster.  Don't touch the 96/24.  Enjoy better sound.  Save money.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just the grado pads.
> 
> the woo hasn't shipped yet, hope i get it before christmas
> 
> ...


 

 Outside The Lines --
   
  "Oh, no she didn't........... _Oh, yes she did!" _



_ _When it comes to sales, never say "never." You should at least make an attempt to see what a retailer may or may not allow by communicating with them. Although, I am the 'Silent One', I can't tell you how much success I've had (a lot!) by simply speaking up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also, in my view, discounts alone can result in nearsightedness. Often, engaging a retailer, establishing a relationship can bear many more fruit later from said retailer or other retailers. So, call/write/inquiry.... and good luck!


----------



## hodgjy

Fabulous tube.  It's my go to tube.  I think it's the best "all arounder." 
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and my tung sol 5998 should be here sometime this week as well.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I'm not a fan of their music, but the Steve Hoffman remaster is quite nice.  It has more dynamic range than the original, with a greater crest factor.  Hoffman's masters tend to the warm side which many find appealing as well.  The remaster is 44/16, not high definition.  It is possible there is a legitimate high definition version available however.
> 
> There is said to be a European remaster as well on 45 rpm vinyl that is airier and more open but I have not heard it.


 

 The EU 45 RPM vinyl remaster sounds dead as a doornail.
  I bought one and.............
  It was so bad I took it back to the store AND complained to Warner Brothers Canada. Warner Brothers said they didn't give a crap.
 I bought a 33 RPM Steve Hoffman instead, much better!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I just took a look at track 4, "Don't Stop," in 96/24.
> 
> The good news is that there is information from 20kHz to 48kHz.  I didn't check bit depth other than to see that all 24 are present.
> 
> ...


 

 ohh...
  ill have to go dig up the 44/16 flac remaster then.
  good thing i have a cheap source for these types of deals
  so i just want the regular old flac cd rip of the remastered cd release?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ohh...
> ill have to go dig up the 44/16 flac remaster then.
> good thing i have a cheap source for these types of deals
> so i just want the regular old flac cd rip of the remastered cd release?


 

 The 44/16 remaster sounds better than the 1977 original release, and much better than the 96/24 version.  Caveat: I only compared track 4 on each.
   
  Yep, torrents are cheap.  The Woos are lucky it isn't easy to rip and copy their amps.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





chris j said:


> The EU 45 RPM vinyl remaster sounds dead as a doornail.
> I bought one and.............
> It was so bad I took it back to the store AND complained to Warner Brothers Canada. Warner Brothers said they didn't give a crap.
> I bought a 33 RPM Steve Hoffman instead, much better!


 

 Interesting.  I would expect the Hoffman to be warm and liquid, and the EU version to be drier and airier - both nice but different. 
   
  Thanks for the report.


----------



## Rawrbington

they're cheap today.
  maybe not tomorrow.
  BOOO SOPA.
  for a lot more reasons than torrents.
   
  ps this is not admission of using torrents as my source, i have a "friend" with lots of "cds" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
  edit: ok yes you are correct.
  theres just a little more detail hidden in the dynamics that aren't present on the 24/96.
  Good call Wapiti!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Interesting.  I would expect the Hoffman to be warm and liquid, and the EU version to be drier and airier - both nice but different.
> 
> Thanks for the report.


 


 Rumour has it (LOL!) that the 45 RPM EU is from a digital master.
  IMHO the 33 RPM Steve Hoffman is better than the 45 RPM EU version.
  Apparently the 45 RPM Steve Hoffman is the one to get.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> theres just a little more detail hidden in the dynamics that aren't present on the 24/96.
> Good call Wapiti!


 

 Weird, huh?


----------



## danska

I ordered a Rega DAC today after demoing this weekend. I ordered a silver one, it will be coming next week!
   
  I feel like it had really good synergy with my system, having Rega seperates and speakers. At this point I will just run the mini-toslink out as it was near the top of my budget, a bridge of some sort will be the next thing to come. Obviously with my Apollo CDP as a source I can run 75 ohm RCA. Apparently the one I demoed only had 100 hours on or so, if things improve I'm in for a treat!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> I ordered a Rega DAC today after demoing this weekend. I ordered a silver one, it will be coming next week!
> 
> I feel like it had really good synergy with my system, having Rega seperates and speakers. At this point I will just run the mini-toslink out as it was near the top of my budget, a bridge of some sort will be the next thing to come. Obviously with my Apollo CDP as a source I can run 75 ohm RCA. Apparently the one I demoed only had 100 hours on or so, if things improve I'm in for a treat!


 


  Great! Separately, any impressions with the EML Glass?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





danska said:


> I ordered a Rega DAC today after demoing this weekend. I ordered a silver one, it will be coming next week!
> 
> I feel like it had really good synergy with my system, having Rega seperates and speakers. At this point I will just run the mini-toslink out as it was near the top of my budget, a bridge of some sort will be the next thing to come. Obviously with my Apollo CDP as a source I can run 75 ohm RCA. Apparently the one I demoed only had 100 hours on or so, if things improve I'm in for a treat!


 


  nice! i've always wanted a rega dac lol. looks cool


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nice! i've always wanted a rega dac lol. looks cool


 


  It's a beefy black or silver slab of DAC that's for sure ~ not for frequent shuffling around!
   
  I've carried mine around in a backpack before to various locations - not recommended
  in the slightest by your chiropractor


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i've seen the black rega. didn't hear it, but seen it. its pretty heavy. its wider but less deep than my DL III. about the same weight as well. pretty heavy and solid built. looked nice.


----------



## cifani090

Just wanted to let you guys know, you guys suck as putting up pictures


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


>


 

 THAT is a cool mod!
  Did you mod the WA6(3?) yourself or was it a custom order with Jack?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> THAT is a cool mod!
> Did you mod the WA6(3?) yourself or was it a custom order with Jack?


 

 Hahah, not mine. Found it off the internet since people dont want to show there porn
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



porn= Woo porn


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Just wanted to let you guys know, you guys suck as putting up pictures


 


  omg that WA6 is sexy, and a fire hazard.


----------



## randomstranger

I currently have a budget of around $1000 and I was trying to find a decent set up for my pair of HD 800s.  Though my budget also has to include a DAC which will end up being a Bifrost since it seems to be a very competent DAC that allows me to spend more for the headphone amp.  I was wondering if the WA6 would have decent sound quality with my HD 800s or if I simply have to bite the bullet and go with the more expensive WA6SE or WA2?


----------



## jc9394

WA6 do a good job with HD800 but it will sing with WA6SE.


----------



## flaming_june

I would say go for the more expensive WA2, or the less expensive WA3.
   
  I just got a phoenix.  Gonna sell off my woo audio 6 now.  GG no re.
  
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> THAT is a cool mod!
> Did you mod the WA6(3?) yourself or was it a custom order with Jack?


 

  
  That's actually a mod one of our head fi'ers did a while back.


----------



## Rawrbington

hd 650 on the way.
  shure 840 and fischer fa 011 on the way out.
  hopefully the 650 and 990 will hold me over for 6 months while i stalk my next prey(T1 or maybe LCD2 depending on how its supposed to sound out the wa2).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> hd 650 on the way.
> shure 840 and fischer fa 011 on the way out.
> hopefully the 650 and 990 will hold me over for 6 months while i stalk my next prey(T1 or maybe LCD2 depending on how its supposed to sound out the wa2).


 

 With the WA2, I would suggest the T1s...a magical pairing.


----------



## Rawrbington

its gonna happen.  but i must stalk, similar to how i stalk woo amps by looking at their webpage 3 times a day.  watching its habits, when it feeds and where it sleeps...
   
  plus i do like the beyer sound.  hopefully its not too bass light, which is why i've never considered the hd800.
   
  but what about the guy saying the 880/600 is better? lol


----------



## Shadowboxer

Hi All,
   
  I've read through about two dozen pages in hopes of finding suggestions on tube options for a WA6, and have given up.  As much as I'd love to, I just don't have the time to read all 1,128 pages.
   
  So cutting to the chase, anyone have experience/observations on various tubes run in a WA6?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





shadowboxer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've read through about two dozen pages in hopes of finding suggestions on tube options for a WA6, and have given up.  As much as I'd love to, I just don't have the time to read all 1,128 pages.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just get the official Sofia rectifier that Woo Audio has on deck. Multiple people here have it and say it's an awesome upgrade to the stock tubes. Then again, I've never tried it, so ask someone who's actually had knowledge with tube rolling on the WA6...


----------



## grokit

I don't have any experience with a WA6 but in general you can never go wrong with Jack Wu's current picks for tube upgrades.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shadowboxer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've read through about two dozen pages in hopes of finding suggestions on tube options for a WA6, and have given up.  As much as I'd love to, I just don't have the time to read all 1,128 pages.
> 
> ...


 


   
  What headphones do you have and type of music you listen to.


----------



## hodgjy

I will agree with this.  He used to offer the Tung-sol 5998 as an upgrade until they ran out of them.  Now, he only offers the Sylvania 7236, but he is reluctant to recommend it to people who really want maximum tube glow.  The Sylvania 7236 can be very solid state sounding and cold in certain pre-amp and headphone combinations.  When I ran Beyer 880 250 ohm, the 7236 sounded dry and slightly cool. 
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> but in general you can never go wrong with Jack Wu's current picks for tube upgrades.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I will agree with this.  He used to offer the Tung-sol 5998 as an upgrade until they ran out of them.  Now, he only offers the Sylvania 7236, but he is reluctant to recommend it to people who really want maximum tube glow.  T*he Sylvania 7236 can be very solid state sounding and cold in certain pre-amp and headphone combinations.*  When I ran Beyer 880 250 ohm, the 7236 sounded dry and slightly cool.


 

 Agreed on the WA2 as I preferred the TS5998s (still have a pair here), but on the WA22, I seem to stick with either the TS or Sylvania 7236s.


----------



## Rawrbington

i agree with teh 5998s as well.
  for my tastes its just the better sounding tube than the 6080/7236 and 6as7.
  the 6080/7236 just sounds thin after using the 5998


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i agree with teh 5998s as well.
> for my tastes its just the better sounding tube than the 6080/7236 and 6as7.
> the 6080/7236 just sounds thin after using the 5998


 

 Seeing that you have the WA2, I can see why.


----------



## hodgjy

The TS 7236 is a different beast than the the Sylvania variant.  The TS is very tubey and powerful.  I have the rare TS 5998A, which basically uses the same plate construction as the TS 7236.  The only difference is the TS 7236 is "computer rated" whereas the TS 5998A is non "computer rated."  I've long since sold off my Sylvania 7236, but I remember the TS 5998A having about equal bass slam but slightly more warmth and bloom, especially in the midtones. But, I do agree with you on the fact the the 7236 variants sound more alike together than they do compared to the regular 5998.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Agreed on the WA2 as I preferred the TS5998s (still have a pair here), but on the WA22, I seem to stick with either the TS or Sylvania 7236s.


----------



## hodgjy

I always felt that the 6080 sounded pretty slow, sloppy, and dark.  I would even describe it as thick.  But, I'm sure a lot of it depends on pre-amp tubes and headphone synergy.  I've found the 5998 to be my preferred power tube.  It has good speed, warmth, midtone glow, and bass impact.  It's a jack of all trades.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> the 6080/7236 just sounds thin after using the 5998


----------



## Silent One

@ jc9394
   
  It appears Shadowboxer is running the HD650...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The TS 7236 is a different beast than the the Sylvania variant.  The TS is very tubey and powerful.  I have the rare TS 5998A, which basically uses the same plate construction as the TS 7236.  The only difference is the TS 7236 is "computer rated" whereas the TS 5998A is non "computer rated."  I've long since sold off my Sylvania 7236, but I remember the TS 5998A having about equal bass slam but slightly more warmth and bloom, especially in the midtones. But, I do agree with you on the fact the the 7236 variants sound more alike together than they do compared to the regular 5998.


 

 Again...seeing that you have the WA3, I can agree with this. But with the WA22, the warmer TS5998s are not needed as the amp is quite euphonic already.
   
  The TS5998A was ONLY an "adequate" tube at best.


----------



## hodgjy

I think we agree on all points...I hope you didn't think I was disagreeing with you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The GE 5998A is a rubbish tube, as it's merely a 6AS7 plate in a straight glass tube.  The TS 5998A has the same plate construction as the TS 7236 and has a remarkably similar sound.  The Sylvania 7236 has a very 6AS7 plate-like construction as well, so it will have a slightly different sound signature than the TS 5998A or 7236.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Again...seeing that you have the WA3, I can agree with this. But with the WA22, the warmer TS5998s are not needed as the amp is quite euphonic already.
> 
> The TS5998A was ONLY an "adequate" tube at best.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think we agree on all points...I hope you didn't think I was disagreeing with you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not at all...we're in complete agreement...my comments about the 7236s were strictly reserved to the WA22. For the WA3 and WA2, I did prefer the TS5998. Both the 5998 and 7236s also increase the output power of these Woo amps...also a good thing.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ jc9394
> 
> It appears Shadowboxer is running the HD650...


 


   
  I would highly recommend Mullard GZ34/7 and 6FD7.  That was my flavor combo when I had my HD600 and WA6.  The Sofia Princess don't have the dynamics that HD6x0 needs.


----------



## hodgjy

Here's a photo of my TS5998A.  You'll see that is has an identical plate construction to the TS7236.  It's just not "computer rated," but has a very similar sonic signature.


----------



## hodgjy

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Not at all...we're in complete agreement...my comments about the 7236s were strictly reserved to the WA22. For the WA3 and WA2, I did prefer the TS5998. Both the 5998 and 7236s also increase the output power of these Woo amps...also a good thing.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Not at all...we're in complete agreement...my comments about the 7236s were strictly reserved to the WA22. For the WA3 and WA2, I did prefer the TS5998. Both the 5998 and 7236s also increase the output power of these Woo amps...also a good thing.


 


   
  I slightly prefer the TS7236 over the TS5998 wth LCD-2 but GEC 6AS7G sounds better with HD800.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I slightly prefer the TS7236 over the TS5998 wth LCD-2 but GEC 6AS7G sounds better with HD800.


 

 No doubt the GEC 6AS7Gs would be a great match with the HD800s...but like you mentioned, not so much with the LCD-2s.


----------



## Shadowboxer

I have HD650 phones.
   
  I listen to jazz (Holly Cole), blues (Buddy Guy, Keb Mo), and trance (Tiesto, Markus Shultz, Dash Berlin).
   
  I prefer a musical, slightly warm sound, though with tight full bass (I know SS would be better for this).
   
  Not a fan of bright sound or "in your face" aggressive.


----------



## hodgjy

I would love to get my hands on the holy grail GEC 6AS7G.  That is a legendary tube!
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I slightly prefer the TS7236 over the TS5998 wth LCD-2 but GEC 6AS7G sounds better with HD800.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> No doubt the GEC 6AS7Gs would be a great match with the HD800s...but like you mentioned, not so much with the LCD-2s.


 


   
  Yes, not enough gain to drive the LCD-2 properly.  I have been using Marantz 2265B and beta22 with LCD-2 lately.  WA22 is kind of dedicated HD800 headamp.


----------



## Shadowboxer

Thanks SilentOne for helping!  I have the DSL guy here now trying to fix my intermitent internet connection.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shadowboxer said:


> I have HD650 phones.
> 
> I listen to jazz (Holly Cole), blues (Buddy Guy, Keb Mo), and trance (Tiesto, Markus Shultz, Dash Berlin).
> 
> ...


 


  See my post above...


  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I would love to get my hands on the holy grail GEC 6AS7G.  That is a legendary tube!


 


  check out the for sale forums, golfnuz have a killer deal now.  You never see this price 6 months ago.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/585233/various-tubes-eml-5u4g-gz37-tung-sol-6sn7gt-bgrp-tung-sol-5998-gec-6as7-6080-7236-6f8g
   
  @shadowboxer, that Mullard GZ37 is very good price.


----------



## hodgjy

@jc
   
  Thanks for the heads up!  That is a good deal, but still a little rich for my blood.  Every time I see the price for the GECs, I think to myself that could be the Schiit Asgard sitting on my table.


----------



## jc9394

I heard you, the tubes I'm using now almost a WA6SE...


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody got a good store for mullard CV2492's?


----------



## hodgjy

These guys have mostly everything.
  http://www.vacuumtubes.net/
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody got a good store for mullard CV2492's?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard you, the tubes I'm using now almost a WA6SE...


 








  I'm always thinking "Opportunity costs..."


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm always thinking "Opportunity costs..."


 


  Food . . . or tubes.
   
  Hmmm


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shadowboxer said:


> Thanks SilentOne for helping!  I have the DSL guy here now trying to fix my intermitent internet connection.


 
   
   
  I'd never think about trying to answering for anyone else. But every now and again, this thread picks up speed like a Freight Train downhill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... _without brakes! _When this happens, all hands on deck.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Food . . . or tubes.
> 
> Hmmm


 

 Soup For One --
   





  Wapiti! Don't let everyone know ALL my business...


----------



## Rawrbington

i've figured out if i eat pb&j for lunch and dinner and instant oatmeal for breakfast i can save 10$ a day.
  thats 300$ a month.
  mmmmm
  pb&j


----------



## Dubstep Girl

still waiting for my paycheck so i can buy the LCD-2 (for my WA6SE) and the T1 (for the legendary WA2/T1 combo).
   
  exciting week though!
   
  bought some audioquest king cobra rcas for like 120 bucks used on amazon, they just came in today and are basically like new. i felt a bit more soundstage, tighter yet slightly less bass, and a more sparkly high end.
   
  my woo shipped today! so ill have a silver WA2 thursday night!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









   
   
  and my TS 5998s should arrive tomorrow as well! 
   
  expensive though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  and then i bought some really cute plushies when i was at the mall today!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> still waiting for my paycheck so i can buy the LCD-2 (for my WA6SE) and the T1 (for the legendary WA2/T1 combo).
> 
> exciting week though!
> 
> ...


 

  





  _Dubstep Girl is red hot and rollin'..._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Dubstep Girl is red hot and rollin'..._


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I would love to get my hands on the holy grail GEC 6AS7G.  That is a legendary tube!


 


  I was looking for a little while, but the prices have become absurd.  The 5998 is my favorite in the series as well, just seems more transparent all around with amazing bass control and there is a little more "meat" to the midrange. 
   
  I actually don't think the the 6080 sounds all that terrible actually, after hearing how much people hate on it.  At least not in an OTL circuit.  I scored some beautiful JAN Chatham 6080s from 1959 with the clip style mica retainers for a practically nothing.  While I don't prefer them to the 6AS7 or 5998 they were certainly livable.  There is a certain thinness to the sound which makes them feel unnatural though, like the body of the music is a bit hollow.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> still waiting for my paycheck so i can buy the LCD-2 (for my WA6SE) and the T1 (for the legendary WA2/T1 combo).
> 
> exciting week though!
> 
> ...


 

 Heh.  You can buy Miku and Konata plush dolls at the Mall now?  I guess that is one way to get around the Dollar/Yen exchange rate.
   
  I've thought this for a while now, but this forum seems to have a awful lot of anime fans.  Can't help but wonder what it is about the two hobbies going together somehow.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

My WA2 came in the mail yesterday, via Addicted to Audio in Melbourne. I don't know what arrangement they've hammered out with Woo Audio but aussies are lucky to have opportunity!
  I got mine in Silver, and the stock 6DJ8s appear to be JAN's packed in '72, so they're older than me. The 6AS7GA's came in Westinghouse boxes, look identical to each other, but only one has readable markings. Notable General Electric. 6v4 / EZ80s are 'International Servicemaster'. Some sort of old OEM?
   
  I'm loving it so far. I'm not sure I could necessarily pick it from my Solid State one of Similar price (back in the day) in a pinch, but it does sound different on some material I've tried, granted, I'm mostly jumping around playlists. Overalll, I'm very pleased, I didn't have high expectations. I really didn't know what to expect from Valves, not sure I do now! The build quality is awesome and surely has to have some psychoacoustic effect because nothing that is built with AWESOME can sound bad right?
   
  Using a pair of 32 ohm Alessandro MS pro (picked over T1), No regrets as yet. If they're disagreeing with each other, they're keeping it low key. I might dust off an old pair of DT880s to have a play.
   
  I've been suprised how much a temperature difference you get when you blow fresh air over the valves. They must like good Air Flow. Measured with Infra-red thermometer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


>


 

 To: A2A....


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've thought this for a while now, but this forum seems to have a awful lot of anime fans.  Can't help but wonder what it is about the two hobbies going together somehow.


 

 A complete mystery, but it appears harmless.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Heh.  You can buy Miku and Konata plush dolls at the Mall now?  I guess that is one way to get around the Dollar/Yen exchange rate.
> 
> I've thought this for a while now, but this forum seems to have a awful lot of anime fans.  Can't help but wonder what it is about the two hobbies going together somehow.


 


  i made a post on another forum a while ago cause i had that same question lol.


  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> My WA2 came in the mail yesterday, via Addicted to Audio in Melbourne. I don't know what arrangement they've hammered out with Woo Audio but aussies are lucky to have opportunity!
> I got mine in Silver, and the stock 6DJ8s appear to be JAN's packed in '72, so they're older than me. The 6AS7GA's came in Westinghouse boxes, look identical to each other, but only one has readable markings. Notable General Electric. 6v4 / EZ80s are 'International Servicemaster'. Some sort of old OEM?
> 
> I'm loving it so far. I'm not sure I could necessarily pick it from my Solid State one of Similar price (back in the day) in a pinch, but it does sound different on some material I've tried, granted, I'm mostly jumping around playlists. Overalll, I'm very pleased, I didn't have high expectations. I really didn't know what to expect from Valves, not sure I do now! The build quality is awesome and surely has to have some psychoacoustic effect because nothing that is built with AWESOME can sound bad right?
> ...


 


  600 ohm beyers are supposed to sound lovely with otl amps. my WA2 arrives in the mail tomorrow. i got tungsol 5998 tubes for it which are supposed to be a must have to get the most out of the WA2. and i plan on getting beyer T1's later on to have the highly regarded WA2/T1 combo. i'm sooo excited!!!!


  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> A complete mystery, but it appears harmless.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> 600 ohm beyers are supposed to sound lovely with otl amps. my WA2 arrives in the mail tomorrow. i got tungsol 5998 tubes for it which are supposed to be a must have to get the most out of the WA2. and i plan on getting beyer T1's later on to have the highly regarded WA2/T1 combo. i'm sooo excited!!!!


 
  i can't wait for you to get it.
  you might rediscover your 990s
  i wouldn't be able to sleep tonight if i had a woo arriving tomorrow


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i can't wait for you to get it.
> you might rediscover your 990s
> i wouldn't be able to sleep tonight if i had a woo arriving tomorrow


 


  LOL ikr!!? the excitement, and the wait. i just can't wait anymore lol. im like checking the fedex tracker every few minutes and browsing the woo website lol. its pretty bad. it'll be in my hands in 24 hours tho


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> LOL ikr!!? the excitement, and the wait. i just can't wait anymore lol. im like checking the fedex tracker every few minutes and browsing the woo website lol. its pretty bad. it'll be in my hands in 24 hours tho


 
   
  Shipping info --
  





  I find myself checking route & weather conditions constantly... _now that's bad._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Shipping info --
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 omg lol that is bad! 
   
  how do u know the route? major interstates?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> omg lol that is bad!
> 
> how do u know the route? major interstates?


 


  This info is carrier dependent. But, knowing the Hubs, Distribution points and Contingency plans the carrier has. And obviously, what method of shipping you chose - Ground/Air which could further be broken down - Next Day Air/2-3 Day. Let's say for example that you selected Ground Delivery (UPS) for a package that will travel 1,200 miles from the shipper to your door. A single 18-Wheeler will not be making that run in its entirety.
   
  Rather, you might see the route segmented with three rigs with each driver travelling 400 miles - dropping off one load and then returning with another. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, with the Weather Channel on one of my three screens... _I stare and study. _





 What good is having three computers if you ain't gonna use them?!


----------



## thrak

ya know, there is a spiffy iDevice app and OS X widget called "Deliveries" from junecloud that does an awful good job of tracking packages.  the apps/widget synch through junecloud so when you add a tracking number it shows up on all your devices automagically.  it can also divine the correct carrier from the tracking number or amazon order number so adding entries is easy as pie.  i highly recommend it for the mac types among us.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

matched tungsol 5998s arrived today! beautiful tubes. will post pic up when WA2 arrives tomorrow!


----------



## Ahzari

dubstep girl said:


> LOL ikr!!? the excitement, and the wait. i just can't wait anymore lol. im like checking the fedex tracker every few minutes and browsing the woo website lol. its pretty bad. it'll be in my hands in 24 hours tho


 


  I hear that... My WA6 with Sophia Princess and 6SN7 adapters are coming today, been sitting at the door... haha.


----------



## hodgjy

I've been known to hit my browser's refresh button many times in anticipation!!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Shipping info --
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Did you buy from an individual person or a tube store?
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> matched tungsol 5998s arrived today! beautiful tubes. will post pic up when WA2 arrives tomorrow!


----------



## Silent One

Just signed for my FedEx on my way out the door... _no time to even look at the box!_


----------



## 188479

Quote: 





> my WA2 arrives in the mail tomorrow


 
   
  DubStep Girl:
   
  Would be very interested in hearing what you think of your RS1 and the WA2!  Please post a little something, I know this is not an ideal match on paper, but many people seem to like it.  TIA.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I was looking for a little while, but the prices have become absurd.  The 5998 is my favorite in the series as well, just seems more transparent all around with amazing bass control and there is a little more "meat" to the midrange.
> 
> I actually don't think the the 6080 sounds all that terrible actually, after hearing how much people hate on it.  At least not in an OTL circuit.  I scored some beautiful JAN Chatham 6080s from 1959 with the clip style mica retainers for a practically nothing.  While I don't prefer them to the 6AS7 or 5998 they were certainly livable.  There is a certain thinness to the sound which makes them feel unnatural though, like the body of the music is a bit hollow.


 

 X2 on the 6080. Just have to turn the volume up more on the 6080 than the 7236 or 5998.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think we agree on all points...I hope you didn't think I was disagreeing with you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I also have to agree with MacedonianHero. I think the amp being used plays a big part in how tubes sound individually, or paired with others in the amp.
   
  With the TS5998 costing 3 times the price of Sylvania 7236 or double the price of TS7236, I'll take the Sylvania anyday (WA22). The differences really aren't that noticable to make me think, I'm really missing out on something.
   
  You really think the plates are that similar?


----------



## hodgjy

I guess my memory has tricked me.  I sold my Sylvania 7236 a long time ago.  For some reason, I remember the Sylvania 7236 plates looking very 6AS7-like, but I guess I made a mistake.  But, my other statements I still think are true.  The TS5998A is the same as the TS7236 except for the computer rating.  The GE5998A is most definitely a 6AS7 plate in a straight bottle.  I know that to be true for Skylab told me so! 
   




  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I also have to agree with Peter. I think the amp being used plays a big part in how tubes sound individually, or paired with others in the amp.
> 
> With the TS5998 costing 3 times the price of Sylvania 7236 or double the price of TS7236, I'll take the Sylvania anyday (WA22). The differences really aren't that noticable to make me think, I'm really missing out on something.
> 
> You really think the plates are that similar?


----------



## Ahzari

WA6 + Sophia + 6SN7 RCAs
   
  Midrange = WOW
   
  Treble = smooooth
   
  Bass = Impacttt
   
  Me =


----------



## Golfnutz

Chalk it up to age Hodgjy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yep, pretty close.  It's amazing how similiar they look, but how completely different they sound.


----------



## Rawrbington

i thought the 7236 and 6080 were the two that were almost identical.
   
  and the WE 274a and TS5998


----------



## hodgjy

I am getting up there in age!
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Chalk it up to age Hodgjy


----------



## Rawrbington

im going back to this jriver question that got resolved then unresolved and perhaps the wrong place for it but you guys are smart.
   
  so my WASAPI (Event) won't play 24/96 properly with my DLIII
  however winamp plays it fine.
  jriver plays it all scratchy and distorted


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im going back to this jriver question that got resolved then unresolved and perhaps the wrong place for it but you guys are smart.
> 
> so my WASAPI (Event) won't play 24/96 properly with my DLIII
> however winamp plays it fine.
> jriver plays it all scratchy and distorted


 


  I use ASIO or WASAPI (normal, non event) through Jriver with a W4S DAC2 without incident, WASAPI (Event) does not play back properly for me either with highres files (24/96 - 24/192), for what that's worth.


----------



## Rawrbington

neither WASAPI work for me in jriver
  but direct sound works fine.
  and the winamp with WASAPI plugin works fine.
  and for whatever reason my dac doesn't seem to like ASIO
   
   
  edit:  and this is exactly why i always end up back with winamp.
  it just works.  its not pretty but it does what i tell it to do.


----------



## hodgjy

The WE is simply a rebadged TS5998.  People claiming to hear differences between the tubes most likely are hearing manufacturing variation rather than one tube being "superior" to the other.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i thought the 7236 and 6080 were the two that were almost identical.
> 
> and the WE 274a and TS5998


----------



## Rawrbington

it sure is expensive.
  but i guess the TS5998 is rather high these days too.
  matched pairs going for 150+


----------



## hodgjy

I remember when the 5998 was a mere $35 before they went through the FOTM and became scarce.  The WE is just a more rare tube and the collectability of it drives the price through the roof.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> it sure is expensive.
> but i guess the TS5998 is rather high these days too.
> matched pairs going for 150+


----------



## Rawrbington

its def popular.
  i think in the wa2 and wa3 it deserves its popularity though.  more than just a FOTM.
  i wish i could still get them at that price.
  id stock pile them thangs


----------



## hodgjy

I have one in my amp, one backup, and one TS5998A.  When those burn up, I think I'll cry.  I do have a TS6SA7 in reserve too.  It's a wonderful and romantic tube, but it doesn't have the same pep as the 5998.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> its def popular.
> i think in the wa2 and wa3 it deserves its popularity though.  more than just a FOTM.
> i wish i could still get them at that price.
> id stock pile them thangs


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I also have to agree with MacedonianHero. I think the amp being used plays a big part in how tubes sound individually, or paired with others in the amp.
> 
> With the TS5998 costing 3 times the price of Sylvania 7236 or double the price of TS7236, I'll take the Sylvania anyday (WA22). The differences really aren't that noticable to make me think, I'm really missing out on something.
> 
> You really think the plates are that similar?


 

 With my now sold WA2, I loved the TS5998s. But seeing that Ed and I share many eery similarities with regards to our rigs (HD800s, WA22s, Cardas balanced cables, etc...), our preferences for the Syl 7236s are pretty much in line (again for the WA22).
   
  I like them so much on my WA22, I bought yet another back up pair off of golfnutz.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> With my now sold WA2, I loved the TS5998s. But seeing that Ed and I share many eery similarities with regards to our rigs (HD800s, WA22s, Cardas balanced cables, etc...), our preferences for the Syl 7236s are pretty much in line (again for the WA22).
> 
> *I like them so much on my WA22, I bought yet another back up pair off of golfnutz.*


 
   
  I almost did myself.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I almost did myself.


 







   
  He's got a few left and the transaction could not have been smoother. He literally shipped them out within an hour or so after receiving my payment. I should have them tomorrow. (We don't live too far apart).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> He's got a few left and the transaction could not have been smoother. He literally shipped them out within an hour or so after receiving my payment. I should have them tomorrow. (We don't live too far apart).


 


  I know but I have way more tubes that I can use, trying to sell some of my spare too.


----------



## hodgjy

Sounds like a quitter's attitude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know but I have way more tubes that I can use.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sounds like a quitter's attitude.


 


  No, trying to offload some of my spare to get the BL63.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know but I have way more tubes that I can use, trying to sell some of my spare too.


 


  Well...if you want to sell a Sophia Mesh Plate 274B, I'm looking for a spare.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well...if you want to sell a Sophia Mesh Plate 274B, I'm looking for a spare.


 

 Sell both pair long time ago after I got the EML 274B mesh.


----------



## hodgjy

I hear ya. Right now I'm pinching pennies to buy myself a Christmas present--the HD600s.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No, trying to offload some of my spare to get the BL63.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I hear ya. Right now I'm pinching pennies to buy myself a Christmas present--the HD600s.


 


  I still need to order the PWD MKII upgrade and looking for a nice cheap table after I found all my vinyl in the attic.  BL63 has to wait.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think when i get paid for my shure 840s im gonna order a pair of ts5998's for about 50 a piece while i can and just save em for a rainy day.
  i'll either use them or sell em later.  don't see how they could drop in price


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> an old pair of DT880s to have a play.
> 
> I've been suprised how much a temperature difference you get when you blow fresh air over the valves. They must like good Air Flow. Measured with Infra-red thermometer.


 


  I found that be the case too.


----------



## hodgjy

They won't.  They can only go up in price.  They are getting quite rare these days.  In fact, I'm actually considering getting a solid state amp (maybe the Asgard) for when I want to do more casual listening just so I don't burn up my 5998s too quickly.  Sure, I could drop an inferior tube in to save on the 5998s, but then I would have an inferior amp as well.  In my WA3, it's basically 5998 or nothing.  I have some other tubes I will use when the 5998s get burned up, but they won't be the same. 
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think when i get paid for my shure 840s im gonna order a pair of ts5998's for about 50 a piece while i can and just save em for a rainy day.
> i'll either use them or sell em later.  don't see how they could drop in price


----------



## hodgjy

I've read that, too, along with other ideas like oil cooling the tubes.  I'm too lazy to do anything to my tubes.  If it sounds "better" or "different" on any given day, so be it.  Part of the tube hobby for me is the tube voodoo.  You never know what you're gonna get (like a box of chocolates).
  
  Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> I found that be the case too.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> In my WA3, it's basically 5998 or nothing.  I have some other tubes I will use when the 5998s get burned up, but they won't be the same.


 


  i agree.  i had the same attitude with my wa3.
  it just gives it more balls


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think when i get paid for my shure 840s im gonna order a pair of ts5998's for about 50 a piece while i can and just save em for a rainy day.
> i'll either use them or sell em later.  don't see how they could drop in price


 

 Just be careful. I purchased a couple of pairs of 5998 from a reputable online supplier and had to send them back. He was selling them for $45 each. Good thing I have a tester to make sure they were half descent.


----------



## Rawrbington

how do i figure out if they are half decent?
  the only option i have is to plug em into the amp really


----------



## hodgjy

This is why I am no longer in the market to buy additional 5998s.  I spent a long time buying, trying, and sending back less than optimal tubes.  It seems like most of them were extremely microphonic or had way too much static even after cleaning the heck out of the pins.  It was a reputable dealer, so I eventually got good tubes, but I'm getting too old and impatient to play the 5998 lottery these days, especially as prices keep going up and up.  The market is leading some people to sell tubes that maybe shouldn't be sold, or at least under "NOS" pretenses.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Just be careful. I purchased a couple of pairs of 5998 from a reputable online supplier and had to send them back. He was selling them for $45 each. Good thing I have a tester to make sure they were half descent.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I almost did myself.


 

 I had to laugh when you PM'd me. I'm thinking, the LAST thing he needs is another pair of tubes


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how do i figure out if they are half decent?
> the only option i have is to plug em into the amp really


 

 PM incoming.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> This is why I am no longer in the market to buy additional 5998s.  I spent a long time buying, trying, and sending back less than optimal tubes.  It seems like most of them were extremely microphonic or had way too much static even after cleaning the heck out of the pins.  It was a reputable dealer, so I eventually got good tubes, but I'm getting too old and impatient to play the 5998 lottery these days, especially as prices keep going up and up.  The market is leading some people to sell tubes that maybe shouldn't be sold, or at least under "NOS" pretenses.


 


  great...
  i actually just went ahead and ordered a pair for 90$.
  i guess i just cross my fingers.  the site claims they "test" them and guarantee them for 30 days.  so i guess i'll just put em in the amp and give it a listen...
   
  theres an old tv/music shop thats almost like a pawn shop by my work.  i wonder if he'd let me use his tube tester.


----------



## Ahzari

So I've been playing around a bit with the 6SN7 and 6DE7 on the WA6... They are obviously not burned in (arrived today) but the stock 6DE7 tubes are sounding better than the 6SN7 (came with some RCAs).
  The 6DE7 have smoother, richer, deeper sound.. The 6SN7 almost gives me the feeling that I'm listening to a SS amp.
  Considering taking the 15% hit and returning them to Woo. Would the sound signature drastically change with burn in?
  From this thread I got the impression that the 6SN7 tubes are supposed to be superior to the 6DE7...


----------



## hodgjy

This is all I did, and I knew right away.  You will, too.  No need to worry too much.  It'll all work out.  They'll either sound great or the vendor will get you tubes that do.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> so i guess i'll just put em in the amp and give it a listen...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I had to laugh when you PM'd me. I'm thinking, the LAST thing he needs is another pair of tubes


 


  Still need that BL63...


----------



## shipsupt

I happened across another picture of the inside of the heat sinks/housings on the WA6SE... recalling some chatter about this in the recent past I thought I'd post it.  They are not "potted" from the looks of this picture.
   

   
  And a few others of interest...
   

   

   

   
http://ravenda.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/woo-audio-6-se/


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The WE is simply a rebadged TS5998.  People claiming to hear differences between the tubes most likely are hearing manufacturing variation rather than one tube being "superior" to the other.


 


  I did some digging into this, and am surprised nobody else has really done so.  Especially in the 6AS7 thread where it got discussed in more length. 
   
  IMO the claim that the WE 421A is identical to the TS5998 just because it is made by Tung-Sol can be debunked by looking at the data sheets.  There are several key differences, most notably an even higher mu factor of 6.1 as opposed to the 5.5 of the 5998, and even higher transconductance than a 5998.  There were also a couple of minor physical design differences that are really hard to spot by eye.  So the 421A may in fact sound different than the 5998 by design, and may operate a bit differently electrically in a circuit than a 5998 would.
  
  I think it's entirely possible that when people say they sound different they are actually hearing that difference.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Just be careful. I purchased a couple of pairs of 5998 from a reputable online supplier and had to send them back. He was selling them for $45 each. Good thing I have a tester to make sure they were half descent.


 


  Pretty sure I know who this is referring to.  I bought some tubes there too and I'm suspicious they test poorly, but don't have the tester to confirm.  If they are testing the tube as a 6AS7 by mistake it would be a big problem for the buyers, since a new reading for a 6AS7 would represent a very used up 5998.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So I've been playing around a bit with the 6SN7 and 6DE7 on the WA6... They are obviously not burned in (arrived today) but the stock 6DE7 tubes are sounding better than the 6SN7 (came with some RCAs).
> The 6DE7 have smoother, richer, deeper sound.. The 6SN7 almost gives me the feeling that I'm listening to a SS amp.
> Considering taking the 15% hit and returning them to Woo. Would the sound signature drastically change with burn in?
> From this thread I got the impression that the 6SN7 tubes are supposed to be superior to the 6DE7...


 

  
  Most tubes sound edgy when new.  Give them 50 hours and they'll settle down.  The 6SN7 in particular doesn't gain any depth or ease of expression until it has been run for a little while.  Then you start getting the magic.  The signature will always be different than the 6DE7 though, whether you prefer it or not will take time to judge.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, whatya know?  I learned something new today.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Although, I'll still never pay the asking price for the WE.  
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I did some digging into this, and am surprised nobody else has really done so.  Especially in the 6AS7 thread where it got discussed in more length.
> 
> IMO the claim that the WE 421A is identical to the TS5998 just because it is made by Tung-Sol can be debunked by looking at the data sheets.  There are several key differences, most notably an even higher mu factor of 6.1 as opposed to the 5.5 of the 5998, and even higher transconductance than a 5998.  There were also a couple of minor physical design differences that are really hard to spot by eye.  So the 421A may in fact sound different than the 5998 by design, and may operate a bit differently electrically in a circuit than a 5998 would.
> 
> I think it's entirely possible that when people say they sound different they are actually hearing that difference.


----------



## hodgjy

Would the mailing address be in Florida, by chance?
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Pretty sure I know who this is referring to.  I bought some tubes there too and I'm suspicious they test poorly, but don't have the tester to confirm.  If they are testing the tube as a 6AS7 by mistake it would be a big problem for the buyers, since a new reading for a 6AS7 would represent a very used up 5998.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Most tubes sound edgy when new.  Give them 50 hours and they'll settle down.  The 6SN7 in particular doesn't gain any depth or ease of expression until it has been run for a little while.  Then you start getting the magic.  The signature will always be different than the 6DE7 though, whether you prefer it or not will take time to judge.


 


  thanks appreciate the input, ill give them some more time.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I did some digging into this, and am surprised nobody else has really done so.  Especially in the 6AS7 thread where it got discussed in more length.
> 
> IMO the claim that the WE 421A is identical to the TS5998 just because it is made by Tung-Sol can be debunked by looking at the data sheets.  There are several key differences, most notably an even higher mu factor of 6.1 as opposed to the 5.5 of the 5998, and even higher transconductance than a 5998.  There were also a couple of minor physical design differences that are really hard to spot by eye.  So the 421A may in fact sound different than the 5998 by design, and may operate a bit differently electrically in a circuit than a 5998 would.
> 
> I think it's entirely possible that when people say they sound different they are actually hearing that difference.


 

 When I mentioned that I could hear some differences I was nearly crucified.
  Do you have a link to the WE421 data sheet please?


----------



## Silent One

Silent Notes... _made visible._
   
   
  Below: Pix of my APC AV "H" Type Power Conditioner H10, UEC USAF-596 & Tung-Sol VT-231/6SN7GT BGRP's puttin' in work!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Would the mailing address be in Florida, by chance?


 

 For me it was...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> ya know, there is a spiffy iDevice app and OS X widget called "Deliveries" from junecloud that does an awful good job of tracking packages.  the apps/widget synch through junecloud so when you add a tracking number it shows up on all your devices automagically.  it can also divine the correct carrier from the tracking number or amazon order number so adding entries is easy as pie.  i highly recommend it for the mac types among us.


 








 Nice to see thrak has all of our Mac-backs! Sometimes, all the tracking in the world can be futile. I requested "Signature Required" from Woo Audio/FedEx. It was hot summer day in July. I began my vigil for the delivery truck late morning. Morning turned to noon to afternoon. I had been checking my screen on the quarter (15 min) but no sign or trace. 
   
  @ 15:30,  I decided to go outside and just look up & down the street and listen for a hot minute. I swung open the door... and the Woo Audio box was just propped up against the house on the porch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In plain sight mind you! I stay in a corner home - the porch is highly visible in three directions.
   
  The Tag clearly had "Signature Required" checked. Worse? It dropped @ 12:15!!!.... updates/notifications were delayed. 
   




   
  My _WA 6 Special Edition _already saw two delays - Spring demand and then Woo Audio closed up to go out of town for an Audio show. If I had to wait yet again for FedEx to settle the claim with Woo Audio, I would've had a brand new WA22, no joking baby!  Somebody was goin' to have to give up sumthin'...


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Has anyone ever used Drop in Solid State Rectifiers. I've been googling compatibility lists for the WA2, came across this.
  http://thetubestore.com/wb-wca4.html
  Googling the details in pic turned up the manufacturer.
  http://www.webervst.com/ccap.html
   
  I'm intrigued.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> WA6 + Sophia + 6SN7 RCAs
> 
> Midrange = WOW
> 
> ...


 






  We have a winner in SoCal...


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I happened across another picture of the inside of the heat sinks/housings on the WA6SE... recalling some chatter about this in the recent past I thought I'd post it.  They are not "potted" from the looks of this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> http://ravenda.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/woo-audio-6-se/


 

 Question from a would be WA-6 or WA-6SE owner.....
   
  can you expand on the sound quality differences between the 6 and 6SE?
   
  thanks, C.
   
  BTW those housings ain't potted, are they!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So I've been playing around a bit with the 6SN7 and 6DE7 on the WA6... They are obviously not burned in (arrived today) but the stock 6DE7 tubes are sounding better than the 6SN7 (came with some RCAs).
> The 6DE7 have smoother, richer, deeper sound.. The 6SN7 almost gives me the feeling that I'm listening to a SS amp.
> Considering taking the 15% hit and returning them to Woo. Would the sound signature drastically change with burn in?
> From this thread I got the impression that the 6SN7 tubes are supposed to be superior to the 6DE7...


 


  It will vary with different tubes. I found my first pair of 6SN7's - NOS matched GE 6SN7GTA 1953's to be forgettable out of the box. And questioned myself through hour 75. They emerged and hit their stride between hours 76 and 125.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 


  wow. all black it looks sooo cool!!!! must sound really good too!
   
  so in response to the previous questions.
   
  my wa2 arrives sometime today! 
   
  yes, i plan on reviewing and posting my WA2 impressions, even comparing them to my WA6SE!
   
  i ordered my tungsol 5998s from here http://tejastubes.com/Poweroutputvacuumaudiotubes.htm
   
  and my check hasn't came in yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. looks like it got sent to my apartment instead despite me changing the mailing address on my paperwork. that just means i have to wait longer to get my T1 and LCD-2 than what i thought. 
   
  also i think im adding d-2000 and hd 600s to my shopping list....well maybe. they would be cool to have, depends on how much bass the lcd-2 have. i want something with really deep bass that works good for rap music with alot of hard hitting bass and also for like dnb and some dubstep. the pro 900s have midbass, but less subbass and it isn't as good sounding as i want it to be.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow. all black it looks sooo cool!!!! must sound really good too!
> 
> so in response to the previous questions.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, Dubstep Girl. In Jan/Feb we gonna put some Black Spikes underneath the _Special Edition _(_sharp!_) to sit on the Maple block. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Currently in-session with Blues great Snooks Eaglin (New Orleans). So good, I almost forgot about breakfast! The D2000' are a high value can; BIG Bang for the buck. Isn't the HD600 close in sound to its sibling (HD650)? Haven't heard either, so I'm asking...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, Dubstep Girl. In Jan/Feb we gonna put some Black Spikes underneath the _Special Edition _(_sharp!_) to sit on the Maple block.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  yeah but it'd be cool to have lol. and i want the d2000 as well as the lcd-2 for the nice deep full bass. only the hd 650 has been able to provide that and i feel that its still lacking at times. 
   
  i don't want overpowered, but i want full bass like the kind u hear with speakers. it just envelops and supports the rest of the sound while retaining its texture, detail, and depth.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah but it'd be cool to have lol. and i want the d2000 as well as the lcd-2 for the nice deep full bass. only the hd 650 has been able to provide that and i feel that its still lacking at times.
> 
> i don't want overpowered, but i want full bass like the kind u hear with speakers. it just envelops and supports the rest of the sound while retaining its texture, detail, and depth.


 


  Ooh, I love depth... especially when filled with audio goodness like detail, decay and texture. And other stuff to be sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  _Uh-oh, sunrise... I'm out like Barnabus Collins!_


----------



## hodgjy

Then we are probably talking about the same vendor.  I've gotten some wonderful tubes from them, but also my share of "tested" duds.  Caveat emptor! 
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> For me it was...


----------



## spagetka

Interesting, could you please describe scratchy/not properly playback?
   
  I am using PC (up to 24bit/96kHz - WASAPI Event - Vista) ->usb->DAC1 PRE (calibrated output)->WA5 with excellent results. WASAPI Event brought clarity to the playback.
   
  Thank you very much.
   

  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im going back to this jriver question that got resolved then unresolved and perhaps the wrong place for it but you guys are smart.
> 
> so my WASAPI (Event) won't play 24/96 properly with my DLIII
> however winamp plays it fine.
> jriver plays it all scratchy and distorted


 
   
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I use ASIO or WASAPI (normal, non event) through Jriver with a W4S DAC2 without incident, WASAPI (Event) does not play back properly for me either with highres files (24/96 - 24/192), for what that's worth.


----------



## shipsupt

I have no experience using them, but I've heard they are cheaper atlernatives that do not sound as good.  I think they are common for folks to throw in guitar amps who don't care much about the sound and are seeking reliability and longevity.
   

  
  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Has anyone ever used Drop in Solid State Rectifiers. I've been googling compatibility lists for the WA2, came across this.
> http://thetubestore.com/wb-wca4.html
> Googling the details in pic turned up the manufacturer.
> http://www.webervst.com/ccap.html
> ...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Then we are probably talking about the same vendor.  I've gotten some wonderful tubes from them, but also my share of "tested" duds.  Caveat emptor!


 

 Yep, the 596 I got from them were mint!  The 5998 were obviously used, and that's why they were charging $45 each, instead of $100.


----------



## Rawrbington

well dale at vacuumetubes emailed me this morning and said they were out of 5998s.
  jeez 100$ a piece seems STEEP.  especially when i need 2 of them.
  and i thought the wa2 would be cheaper on tubes than the wa6se because of the sophia.
   
  boy i was wrong


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> well dale at vacuumetubes emailed me this morning and said they were out of 5998s.
> jeez 100$ a piece seems STEEP.  especially when i need 2 of them.
> and i thought the wa2 would be cheaper on tubes than the wa6se because of the sophia.
> 
> boy i was wrong


 

 Consider yourself lucky. You just saved shipping both ways...


----------



## Rawrbington

haha!
  at least thats good news.
  i was not thinking straight anyways i've got two reserve 5998s in my drawer, 1 chatham and 1 ts.
   
  and talking about the amp not being cheap to tube, the 6DJ8s are crazy too.
  75 bucks per tube????
  really???
   
  anybody heard the JJ E88CC out of the wa2 or 3?


----------



## Draygonn

Huge day for Dubstep Girl! Can't wait for your 6SE v WA2 comparison. 


I just finished my Crack, which benefits from a TS5998. If I pick up two more I'll have the WA2 and Crack taken care of plus a backup in case they get scarce 10 years from now. I've had bad tube buying experiences and don't want to risk my HD800s. Who knows a trustworthy place to grab a matched pair of TS5998s?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Huge day for Dubstep Girl! Can't wait for your 6SE v WA2 comparison.
> I just finished my Crack, which benefits from a TS5998. If I pick up two more I'll have the WA2 and Crack taken care of plus a backup in case they get scarce 10 years from now. I've had bad tube buying experiences and don't want to risk my HD800s. Who knows a trustworthy place to grab a matched pair of TS5998s?


 


  gratz on finishing your crack!
   
   
  my WA2 is here@#!$!@##!#@# super excited, it looks really cool too, way better in real life, and its heavy!
   
   
  busy burning in and listen to it right now. sounds really harsh right now with stock tubes + brand new. gonna put the good tubes in and start burning them in.
   
   i can already tell that the 990s have alot more bass with this. and the sound is definitely more "tubey". just heavier and meatier midrange overall. alot more full sounding than the WA6SE. of course, we'll see how the sound changes since i'll put the good tubes in + burn the amp in.


----------



## vinyllp33

Happy Holidays to all The Woo Guys and Gals.
   
  Been MIA for a while as the system has been in flux and I have been crazy busy.
   
  Just a heads up to those who may be interested I have (2) EML 5U4G New-In-Box purchased directly from Jack at Woo Audio available.
   
  PM me if interested, I wanted to give everyone here first chance before I post in the For Sale Forum.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my WA2 is here@#!$!@##!#@# super excited, it looks really cool too, way better in real life, and its heavy!


 
  WOOT!
  Enjoy it!
  i love reading about other people getting new awesome amps.
  almost as much as i would love to get a 6SE
  whats the burn in time supposed to be? 100+ hrs?
  what are power and drive tubes it came with?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> WOOT!
> Enjoy it!
> i love reading about other people getting new awesome amps.
> almost as much as i would love to get a 6SE
> ...


 

 yeah like 100-150 hours for full burn in
   
  it came with GE 6AS7GA power tubes, philips 6922 driver tubes, and International EZ80 rectifier tubes.
   
  im putting in TS 5998, Tesla 6CA4, and Sylvania 7308s into it.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah like 100-150 hours for full burn in
> 
> it came with GE 6AS7GA power tubes, philips 6922 driver tubes, and International EZ80 rectifier tubes.
> 
> im putting in TS 5998, Tesla 6CA4, and Sylvania 7308s into it.


 


 You might want to use the stock tubes for full burn in, then replace with better tubes. No point in burning hours on good tubes when you won't get the maximum benefit.


----------



## WindyCityCy

D7000 have the most bass of any headphones I've tried.  They are great headphones and closed-back so not as much sound leaks into the surrounding area.  Great for listening when others don't want to hear the subwoofers pounding in yer head
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow. all black it looks sooo cool!!!! must sound really good too!
> 
> so in response to the previous questions.
> 
> ...


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rosgr63* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Do you have a link to the WE421 data sheet please?


 

421A & 5998 but no 2399...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

and just wondering. i tried all my headphones out of my WA2. and going past 1-2 o clock. on the volume knob, all the headphones start to distort out of the WA2 except my hd 650s and dt 990s.
   
  is this due to the fact that the WA2 is otl and isn't good at powering lower impedance cans? cause it seems weird cause other people say grados and wa2 work fine. it isn't super noticeable at first, but more noticeable in the bass region.
   
  like grados/akg/ and my pro 900 don't get super loud with the WA2 before they start to clip, whereas they get super loud from my WA6SE.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It will vary with different tubes. I found my first pair of 6SN7's - NOS matched GE 6SN7GTA 1953's to be forgettable out of the box. And questioned myself through hour 75. They emerged and hit their stride between hours 76 and 125.


 


  I wasn't sure if tubes change much with the burn in, but it seems like they do so I'm going to work on them.. its a beautiful amp though really liking the Sophia Princess )


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah but it'd be cool to have lol. and i want the d2000 as well as the lcd-2 for the nice deep full bass. only the hd 650 has been able to provide that and i feel that its still lacking at times.
> 
> i don't want overpowered, but i want full bass like the kind u hear with speakers. it just envelops and supports the rest of the sound while retaining its texture, detail, and depth.


 


  I have the D7000s and the Ultraosone 2900s.. and the Ultrasones (at times) get much deeper than the denons - I am really liking the ultrasone/woo combo right now, might want to look into it.. but I do want to get my hands on a LCD2 or 3 at some point, really interested to see what all the hype is about.


----------



## hodgjy

I would say this definitely part of it.  But don't forget sensitivity.  Voltage from OTL amps is great for high impedance cans, but sensitivity mismatches can lead to less than optimal results.  Also, I'm pretty sure the GE6AS7GA tube is pretty low gain.  Drop the 5998 or 7236 in there, and you'll notice more gain.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> is this due to the fact that the WA2 is otl and isn't good at powering lower impedance cans? cause it seems weird cause other people say grados and wa2 work fine. it isn't super noticeable at first, but more noticeable in the bass region.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I would say this definitely part of it.  But don't forget sensitivity.  Voltage from OTL amps is great for high impedance cans, but sensitivity mismatches can lead to less than optimal results.  Also, I'm pretty sure the GE6AS7GA tube is pretty low gain.  Drop the 5998 or 7236 in there, and you'll notice more gain.


 


  oh ok. thanks. so yeah i can't listen to grados/k701/pro 900s with it. at least not very loudly, cause it starts to sound bad. 
   
  however, the hd 650s and beyers sound great. the bass on them is amazing, and everything sounds well powered.


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, for example, the 701's sensitivity is 105 db and the 990s is 96 db.  This is a very drastic difference.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh ok. thanks. so yeah i can't listen to grados/k701/pro 900s with it. at least not very loudly, cause it starts to sound bad.
> 
> however, the hd 650s and beyers sound great. the bass on them is amazing, and everything sounds well powered.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yep, for example, the 701's sensitivity is 105 db and the 990s is 96 db.  This is a very drastic difference.


 


  what about my grados?
   
  they start sounding bad out of the WA2 at a lower volume level compared to the WA6SE. is that also due to the impedance mismatch and sensitivity?


----------



## hodgjy

Grados are lower in sensitivity, but also low impedance.  Different cans have different synergies based on a number of factors, but the general consensus is OTL amps don't play nice with Grados and AKG cans.  But, this is for different reasons.  AKGs need good amping because of their high sensitivity, which OTLs don't play nice with.  Grados are lower impedance, which OTLs don't play nice with.
   
  The WA2 really shines with the 300 ohm Senns and the 600 ohm Beyers.  It doesn't play nice with AKGs and Grados.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what about my grados?
> 
> they start sounding bad out of the WA2 at a lower volume level compared to the WA6SE. is that also due to the impedance mismatch and sensitivity?


 


  i think so.
  my 32 ohm beyers were the same way.
  12 oclock and they started to distort/clip and sound bad.
  so i sold them.
   
  do the 650s sound really good?
  i have a pair on the way.
  not sure what to expect other than the warmth


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and just wondering. i tried all my headphones out of my WA2. and going past 1-2 o clock. on the volume knob, all the headphones start to distort out of the WA2 except my hd 650s and dt 990s.
> 
> is this due to the fact that the WA2 is otl and isn't good at powering lower impedance cans? cause it seems weird cause other people say grados and wa2 work fine. it isn't super noticeable at first, but more noticeable in the bass region.
> 
> like grados/akg/ and my pro 900 don't get super loud with the WA2 before they start to clip, whereas they get super loud from my WA6SE.


 

 You can hear distortion at high volumes from AKG/Grado & Pro 900?
   
  The thing they all have in common is that they are all low impedance headphones.
  If you really are listening Super Loud! then maybe the amp is running out of current.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





thrak said:


> ya know, there is a spiffy iDevice app and OS X widget called "*Deliveries*" from junecloud that does an awful good job of tracking packages.  the apps/widget synch through junecloud so when you add a tracking number it shows up on all your devices automagically.  it can also divine the correct carrier from the tracking number or amazon order number so adding entries is easy as pie.  i highly recommend it for the mac types among us.


 

 Couldn't find that one. I think that you meant "Delivery Manager" which I did find, thanks!
   
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> PM incoming.


 

 Don't be shy, share with everyone as this is a universal subject


----------



## bgmyers

Just picked up a nearly new black WES for my 007 Mk II cans. Should sound great!


----------



## bgmyers

BTW ,,, it is maxed.


----------



## bgmyers

Anyone have experience nwith this combo?


----------



## bgmyers

Would like to hear a set of HE90'a with it.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think so.
> my 32 ohm beyers were the same way.
> 12 oclock and they started to distort/clip and sound bad.
> so i sold them.
> ...


 
  On the WA6 the 650s sound ok.. I like the Denon and Ultrasone sound better.. Returning the Senns.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





chris j said:


> You can hear distortion at high volumes from AKG/Grado & Pro 900?
> 
> The thing they all have in common is that they are all low impedance headphones.
> If you really are listening Super Loud! then maybe the amp is running out of current.


 

  
  on my WA2 its not even at SUPER loud volumes, just loud.  like 12 oclock on the dial maybe 1.  i think its more about control than current.  at 32 ohms the 2 puts out about 350 mW which isn't a ton, but i i assume it would be plenty for that volume.  i think its more impedance missmatch and poor damping than not enough current at taht volume.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what about my grados?
> 
> they start sounding bad out of the WA2 at a lower volume level compared to the WA6SE. is that also due to the impedance mismatch and sensitivity?


 

 Generally the impedance of the headphone is the deciding factor.  OTL amps love high impedance loads and are unhappy driving low impedance.  This is one reason the T1 works so well with this amp.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> on my WA2 its not even at SUPER loud volumes, just loud.  like 12 oclock on the dial maybe 1.  i think its more about control than current.  at 32 ohms the 2 puts out about 350 mW which isn't a ton, but i i assume it would be plenty for that volume.  i think its more impedance missmatch and poor damping than not enough current at taht volume.


 

 I suspect you may be correct. An OTL amp will have a fairly high output impedance.
  The AKG can only take 200 mW, but this is more than enough volume to fry your ears.
  16 mW is 105 dB for those cans.
   
  The sensitivity of the Grado is 98 dB/mW.  10 mW would be 108 dB. 100 mW would be 118 mW, so you wouldn't be running out of power.
   
  The PRO 900 are 96 dB referenced to what?
   
   
  Strangely enough I don't seem to run into these problems with my head amp which uses the same output tube:  the 6AS7.   It's a La Figaro.   I'm using the Q107 cans.
  Maybe I just don't listen that loud.....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Consider yourself lucky. You just saved shipping both ways...


 

  
   
  I have good experience on 596 from him but he tries to charge me $3 to match the tubes.  I said, no thank since WA22 only take one.
  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> D7000 have the most bass of any headphones I've tried.  They are great headphones and closed-back so not as much sound leaks into the surrounding area.  Great for listening when others don't want to hear the subwoofers pounding in yer head


 

 X2 on bass, but it is semi-closed back.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Strangely enough I don't seem to run into these problems with my head amp which uses the same output tube:  the 6AS7.   It's a La Figaro.   I'm using the Q107 cans.  Maybe I just don't listen that loud.....


 

 hmmm
  that is very interest.  i wonder what the output impedance is of the La Figaro.  i think the WA2 is in the neighborhood of 100 ohms.
  which La Figaro do you have 336 or 337?
   
  just a quick edit to add more to this situation, my shure 840s always sounded nice out of the wa2, at 44 ohms i believe.
  and the beyer DT770 pro 80s sound great.
  my theory on those 2 is that the pro 80s actually tend to be a little higher than 100 ohms from the only measurments ive seen, and for the shures i think they are just very easy driving headphnes that don't fuss and fight with any signal they get


----------



## hodgjy

This topic gets brought up frequently, and it is easy to confuse.  Heck, even I butcher it from time to time.
   
  OTL amps have high output impedance.  This means when driving low impedance cans there is a lot of power loss.  It seems counter intuitive that way, but there is less power loss when driving high impedance cans.  This is why you have to turn the volume way up on low impedance cans.  Also, the impedance mismatch leads to damping issues, which can distort the sound, especially bass.  If you throw high sensitivity into the mix, like the 701s, you'll hear more of the flaws in the sound.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I suspect you may be correct. An OTL amp will have a fairly high output impedance.
> The AKG can only take 200 mW, but this is more than enough volume to fry your ears.
> 16 mW is 105 dB for those cans.
> 
> ...


 


 Just because two amps use the same tube the circuit topology can be very different and the output impedance can be very different
  a 6AS7 can be run at fairly low impedance at 100ma but would require a large power transformer to be run this way


----------



## grokit

Quote:


hodgjy said:


> Yep, for example, the 701's sensitivity is 105 db and the 990s is 96 db.  This is a very drastic difference.


 
  Quote:


hodgjy said:


> This topic gets brought up frequently, and it is easy to confuse.  Heck, even I butcher it from time to time.
> 
> OTL amps have high output impedance.  This means when driving low impedance cans there is a lot of power loss.  It seems counter intuitive that way, but there is less power loss when driving high impedance cans.  This is why you have to turn the volume way up on low impedance cans.  Also, the impedance mismatch leads to damping issues, which can distort the sound, especially bass. * If you throw high sensitivity into the mix, like the 701s*, you'll hear more of the flaws in the sound.


 
   
  ? I believe that a higher db number translates into lower sensitivity. I would not call the 701 high sensitivity compared to Grados and ATs for example.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think the lower the db number listed as sensitivity means its less sensitive.
  im only speculating because the hifiman HE 6 is listed as like 82 db.
  and they are very insensitive right?


----------



## Wapiti

Yes, lower dB is less sensitive.
   
  There is some confusion caused by how the specification is presented however.  You need to compare how many dBs produced at the same voltage or mW.


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Yes, lower dB is less sensitive.
> 
> There is some confusion caused by how the specification is presented however.  You need to compare how many dBs produced at the same voltage or mW.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


wapiti said:


> Yes, lower dB is less sensitive.
> 
> There is some confusion caused by how the specification is presented however.  You need to compare how many dBs produced at the same voltage or mW.


 

 Which is why I pay no attention to that spec unless I want to compare headphones from the same manufacturer. Anyways I stand corrected on the high/low db/sensitivity correspondence. But I still say that the 701 is not a highly-sensitive headphone especially when compared to Grados and ATs. It's one of the harder to drive headhones on the market.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Would the mailing address be in Florida, by chance?


 


  Indeed it is.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Yes, lower dB is less sensitive.
> 
> There is some confusion caused by how the specification is presented however.  You need to compare how many dBs produced at the same voltage or mW.


 
  thanks.......the PRO 900 sensitivity is referenced to nothing!
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> hmmm
> that is very interest.  i wonder what the output impedance is of the La Figaro.  i think the WA2 is in the neighborhood of 100 ohms.
> which La Figaro do you have 336 or 337?
> 
> ...


 

 La Figaro 336C, the amp weighs a ton, probably has a massive power supply transformer, but I have no idea how heavy it is compared to the Woo.
  The 336C only uses one 6AS7 for both channels.
  The Shures are high efficiency,  i.e. very sensitive, 102 dB at 1 mW, easy to drive, but 100 ohms is a very high output impedance for 44 ohm phones, but if it works for you, what can I say?
   
  I'm not sure what you are getting at when you say the Pro 80s are more than 100 ohms?  Same thing, wouldn't you want to drive them from 10 ohms or less?
   
   
  As for the AKGs,  I agree, they need a fair amount of power to get them going.
   
   
  Edit: I tried driving my Q701s from an amp with a 150 ohm output impedance, the bass was very boomy, I didn't like it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> When I mentioned that I could hear some differences I was nearly crucified.
> Do you have a link to the WE421 data sheet please?


 


   
  http://www.westernelectric.com/spec_sheets/421A.pdf
   
  It'll create a bit more gain than a 5998, and the sky high transconductance means different operating points in the circuit.  I'm still a tube newb in many ways, but from the research I did the 5998 doesn't operate in its most linear range when used in a circuit designed for a 5998.  So, as much as people like these tubes if an amp was designed specifically around them they might sound even better.  The 421A would be even more outside its ideal operating range, though how much it would be audible I have no idea.  I happen to like the sound of the 6SN7 when it is outside its linear operating range so it isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Maybe just results in more 2nd order harmonic distortion which makes the music sound more tubey and romantic.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





oskari said:


> 421A & 5998 but no 2399...


 


   
  There doesn't seen to be a datasheet for the 2399.  I talked about this with Skylab once.  There *is* a difference between it and a 5998, but not an electrical one.  The Chatham tubes all got copper for their grid posts and grid wire instead of steel.  This has an audible effect on the tube's tone, making it sounds warmer and a bit more lit up in the mids.  I always prefer copper grid posts in my tubes, except for maybe in this case.  The 5998 has such good transparency and balance in an OTL circuit it seems a waste to mess it up.
   
  The 2399 is also nearly impossible to find.  I got my by dumb luck, shipped in place of 5998s, and my luck ran south anyway because one of them is so microphonic it is unusable.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Has anyone ever used Drop in Solid State Rectifiers. I've been googling compatibility lists for the WA2, came across this.
> http://thetubestore.com/wb-wca4.html
> Googling the details in pic turned up the manufacturer.
> http://www.webervst.com/ccap.html
> ...


 


   
  I know Jack doesn't recommend their use, though they aren't dangerous to the amp if I recall.  The rise time on a solid state device is instantaneous, which is hard on the other tubes which are expecting a slow voltage rise.  You'll significantly shorten the life of those tubes so it's not worth it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Grados are lower in sensitivity, but also low impedance.  Different cans have different synergies based on a number of factors, but the general consensus is OTL amps don't play nice with Grados and AKG cans.  But, this is for different reasons.  AKGs need good amping because of their high sensitivity, which OTLs don't play nice with.  Grados are lower impedance, which OTLs don't play nice with.
> 
> The WA2 really shines with the 300 ohm Senns and the 600 ohm Beyers.  It doesn't play nice with AKGs and Grados.


 


  I like my K701 on my OTL amp.  I think it comes down to the output impedance of the amp.  The 5998 helps with this in my case, and really brings snap to the bass which is missing in the 6AS7 tubes.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Strangely enough I don't seem to run into these problems with my head amp which uses the same output tube:  the 6AS7.   It's a La Figaro.   I'm using the Q107 cans.
> Maybe I just don't listen that loud.....


 


  The 6AS7 is used a lot in these types of amps because it helps give the amp a lower output impedance.  If the amp was designed for the 5998 it would lower it even more.  I was looking into an amp being designed specifically around the 5998 for a little while until plans changed.
   
  I think I just posted way too many times in a row here.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I know Jack doesn't recommend their use, though they aren't dangerous to the amp if I recall.  The rise time on a solid state device is instantaneous, which is hard on the other tubes which are expecting a slow voltage rise.  You'll significantly shorten the life of those tubes so it's not worth it.


 


  yea, vacuum tube rectifiers have a very slow turn on, it takes them 10-20 seconds to slowly turn on, which is much easier on the rest of the tubes in the amp.
  my pre amp has a vacuum tube rectifier in it.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think I just posted way too many times in a row here.


 
   
  Try using the "Multi" button next to the "Quote" button!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I'm not sure what you are getting at when you say the Pro 80s are more than 100 ohms?  Same thing, wouldn't you want to drive them from 10 ohms or less?


 
  i would think so.
  i just mentioned those two to point out that the impedance missmatch isn't as black and white as i once believed and that it can sometimes be a bit of a mystery.
  but i guess either one of two things, the measurments i've seen on them is about 125 ohms and maybe due to whatever else in their design the low damping factor doesn't effect their sound much
  or
  sometimes damping factors can be somewhat irrelevant.  i always thought(and still do for the most part) think that he higher the damping factor the better the control, but recently there has been a thread somewhere in the amp forum about output impedance and it kinda led me to believe that it isn't cut and dry.


----------



## WindyCityCy

All of this activity on the thread has driven me to a SilentOne-esque Woo state of mind ... I've been in a trance for the past 4 hours thanks to the WA22/HD800 pairing.  May need to switch in the D7000 after taking a break for some substenance!  It's been far too long since I let the Woo out for a good run.


----------



## hodgjy

In general terms, in any electrical system, the source ideally has much lower output impedance than the input impedance of the receiving end.  In fact, the greater the difference, the better.  If the difference is very close, or even if the output is lower than the receiving end, power is lost.  The lower the source is means less power is lost.  So, this means the amplifier has lower output impedance than the headphones.  To use an analogy, think of a garden hose.  If you leave the water pressure the same, but put your thumb over the end, you can control the water pressure.  Your thumb is the impedance of the headphones.  You loosen your thumb, pressure goes down.  Tighten your thumb, and the water pressure goes up, but the faucet and water supply did not have to work any harder.  
   
  So, what does this all mean?  It is better that the water pressure coming out of the faucet is less than the force of your thumb.  You have much more control and waste less water.  If the water at the faucet is too forceful, you don't have much control with your thumb, and water sprays everywhere, wasting the power.
   
  OTL amps use capacitors to transfer power from the tubes to the headphones.  These tubes often have high impedanc, often ranging from 60 ohms to 100 ohms. Output transformers lower the output impedance, making the system more favorable for low impedance headphones. I've seen some output transformers at an ohm or lower.


----------



## WindyCityCy

D7000 rotated in ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> All of this activity on the thread has driven me to a SilentOne-esque Woo state of mind ... I've been in a trance for the past 4 hours thanks to the WA22/HD800 pairing.  May need to switch in the D7000 after taking a break for some substenance!  It's been far too long since I let the Woo out for a good run.


 






  Indeed...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> D7000 rotated in ...


 


  Since customizing your audio rack, how's the airflow for your Woo?


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I know Jack doesn't recommend their use, though they aren't dangerous to the amp if I recall.  The rise time on a solid state device is instantaneous, which is hard on the other tubes which are expecting a slow voltage rise.  You'll significantly shorten the life of those tubes so it's not worth it.


 
   
  Fair enough. I was planning on dropping in solid state rectifiers, merits aside, they're kind of boring to look at.
   
  I've been reading with interest regarding impedances. I was just talking fellow in town who still works in valves. He was of two views. If it sounds good to you, there is no problem. but that impedance issues MAY present themselves in terms of bass, this may tie in to damping factor.
  I'm using a pair of MS-pro (Grado makes them, but ARE they Grados?) which i picked up for my previous amp (solid state). I'm certainly conflicted, I tried to make myself aware of the advantages / disadvantages of an OTL setup (in light of the new cans). I would not have thought there was a problem at all were it not for reading suggestions there might be. If that makes any sense at all. I certainly don't get clipping at 12 o'clock on the MS-Pro. I've been placing faith in the WA2 rated impedance ranges and Woo's vaunted design prowess.
   
  I've been swapping between low impedance MS pro and a high impedance pair of DT880, And the only certainty I've been able to come to is that different headphones are different (duh). If I can't hear something detrimental, is there anything wrong at all? Because I'd really like to go back to just enjoying the music.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

from what i've noticed with my WA2. i can't use grados, akgs, or my pro 900s due to the impedance thing. other people say that have worked. but from what i heard. they work only at lower listening volumes since it doesn't become a problem until the amp has to put out more power. 
   
  the hd 650s sounded really good out of it as well as the dt 990s. however, unfortunately, i learned my dt  990 has a defective driver (just noticed it when i plugged it in since i haven't used my 990s in a while). so now i have to send the 990s to beyer for repair, i'm stuck with only 1 pair of headphones to use my WA2 with, and my check hasn't come in so i can't buy the T1s yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it would seem silly to buy a pair of 880s or hd 600s for the time being. but i might just do that, oh but wait, christmas is just around the corner, so shipping would get delayed either way......
   
  guess ill just use my hd 650s now. and i have to get T1s and maybe some other high impedance headphones to use with my WA2.
   
   
  EDIT: at least the hd 650s sound good out it. they sound dark again, but the bass on them really comes out with the WA2. not as tight as with the WA6SE, but alot more presence. and the hd 650s just sound powerful. thats the best way i can describe it. well driven and powerful, and also very very natural sounding. its a nice thick analog sound with good detail. might be a little slow though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  also, what if i use the WA2 as a preamp and follow through with the WA6SE?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i would think so.
> i just mentioned those two to point out that the impedance missmatch isn't as black and white as i once believed and that it can sometimes be a bit of a mystery.
> but i guess either one of two things, the measurments i've seen on them is about 125 ohms and maybe due to whatever else in their design the low damping factor doesn't effect their sound much
> or
> sometimes damping factors can be somewhat irrelevant.  i always thought(and still do for the most part) think that he higher the damping factor the better the control, but recently there has been a thread somewhere in the amp forum about output impedance and it kinda led me to believe that it isn't cut and dry.


 

  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> In general terms, in any electrical system, the source ideally has much lower output impedance than the input impedance of the receiving end.  In fact, the greater the difference, the better.  If the difference is very close, or even if the output is lower than the receiving end, power is lost.  The lower the source is means less power is lost.  So, this means the amplifier has lower output impedance than the headphones.  To use an analogy, think of a garden hose.  If you leave the water pressure the same, but put your thumb over the end, you can control the water pressure.  Your thumb is the impedance of the headphones.  You loosen your thumb, pressure goes down.  Tighten your thumb, and the water pressure goes up, but the faucet and water supply did not have to work any harder.
> 
> So, what does this all mean?  It is better that the water pressure coming out of the faucet is less than the force of your thumb.  You have much more control and waste less water.  If the water at the faucet is too forceful, you don't have much control with your thumb, and water sprays everywhere, wasting the power.
> 
> OTL amps use capacitors to transfer power from the tubes to the headphones.  These tubes often have high impedanc, often ranging from 60 ohms to 100 ohms. Output transformers lower the output impedance, making the system more favorable for low impedance headphones. I've seen some output transformers at an ohm or lower.


 


 Sorry guys..............my apologies..............this stuff gives me fits
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  You may want to take a quick look at my member profile before reading the rest of this.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance
   
  From a pure electrical engineering point of view, it is pretty cut and dried:
   
   - virtually all headphone amplifiers are voltage sources
   - an ideal voltage source has zero output impedance
   
  zero or very low output impedance has these advantages:
   - higher damping factor which leads to lower distortion, tighter, more controlled bass
   - virtually no frequency response interactions between the heaphone and the headphone amp impedances (this really only applies to headphones with a varying impedance WRT frequency (for example, DT880/32 ohm))
   - improved efficiency between the amp and the headphone; when you are driving a 100 ohm headphone with an amp with a 100 ohm output impedance then you are wasting half the amplifier output power, obviously this gets important when driving low impedance 'phones from an OTL amp
   
  but as Zeruel points out, if it sounds good to you, then there is no problem, just enjoy the music.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I have an OTL head amp which I enjoy DESPITE all the problems it brings to the table with it's high output impedance.
  OTLs use output capacitors to block the DC offset.
   
  regards, C.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> from what i've noticed with my WA2. i can't use grados, akgs, or my pro 900s due to the impedance thing. other people say that have worked. but from what i heard. they work only at lower listening volumes since it doesn't become a problem until the amp has to put out more power.
> 
> the hd 650s sounded really good out of it as well as the dt 990s. however, unfortunately, i learned my dt  990 has a defective driver (just noticed it when i plugged it in since i haven't used my 990s in a while). so now i have to send the 990s to beyer for repair, i'm stuck with only 1 pair of headphones to use my WA2 with, and my check hasn't come in so i can't buy the T1s yet.
> 
> ...


 
  Maybe you should just send it back and try to get your money back. Instead of buying headphones that might work with it or using it as a not needed preamp


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Maybe you should just send it back and try to get your money back. Instead of buying headphones that might work with it or using it as a not needed preamp


 


  i am planning on buying the T1. however, i have to wait a couple of weeks till i have the money, and the wait is killing me


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i am planning on buying the T1. however, i have to wait a couple of weeks till i have the money, and the wait is killing me


 


 An OTL amp will sound really good with the right headphone.


----------



## hodgjy

I don't think too many people will argue that the T1 and WA2 combo offers some of the best synergy and euphonia for less than $3000 combined.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i am planning on buying the T1. however, i have to wait a couple of weeks till i have the money, and the wait is killing me


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i couldn't wait....just placed an order on amazon for some T1s, next day delivery.
   
  they ran out of the 999 new prices, but they had a used - very good pair for 869. direct from amazon. went with that


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Sorry guys..............my apologies..............this stuff gives me fits
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 im a bit of a noob to all of this so this brings up a few questions.
  what about overdamping?  does it actually exist?  and why do the 600 ohm beyers like a little higher output impedance?


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Couldn't find that one. I think that you meant "Delivery Manager" which I did find, thanks!


 

 thread's getting away from me again   actually, i just checked and for some reason the iDevice app is "Deliveries" and the OS X widget is called "Delivery Status".  They are the same app but for some reason junecloud used two different names.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Ha!  Didn't have to drill any holes and the Woo actually has more room.  However, the DAC2 was forced to move from a loft to cramped studio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Since customizing your audio rack, how's the airflow for your Woo?


----------



## jc9394

Tube experts, how is Hickok 533?  I'm thinking pick one up soon.


----------



## hodgjy

It's not so much that they like higher output impedances, it's that amps with higher output impedances drive the high impedance headphones with less power loss.  Also, it just so happens that many amps with high output impedances are tube OTL amps, which can provide the high voltage swings needed to drive high impedance cans to their best.  In general terms, low impedance cans area more current driven and high impedance cans are more voltage driven.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> and why do the 600 ohm beyers like a little higher output impedance?


----------



## Rawrbington

just swapped out some tubes.
  can't tell a difference with the yugolavian EZ80
  and the British Sylvania EZ80
   
  however with the phillips ECC88 and the Amprex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 i think i like the Amprex better.  slightly less harsh and a little bit warmer.
  BUT
  the phillips i think its either an "A" getter or "Disk" getter, it may present a tiny bit more detail.
  i'll just keep listening.
   
  i have no other power tubes to swap, i only have 3 TS5998 and 1 Chatham
  so thats no fun


----------



## Ahzari

Do you guys think the WA6 could drive the T1s to their "full" potential? Aren't they supposed to be a very efficient 600 ohm can?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i couldn't wait....just placed an order on amazon for some T1s, next day delivery.
> 
> they ran out of the 999 new prices, but they had a used - very good pair for 869. direct from amazon. went with that


 

  





  Eyewitness reports from earlier today seem to indicate Dubstep Girl is taking steps in the right direction...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Ha!  Didn't have to drill any holes and the Woo actually has more room.  However, the DAC2 was forced to move from a loft to cramped studio


 







  But isn't the DAC2 a shoe box to begin with?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> *thread's getting away from me again*   actually, i just checked and for some reason the iDevice app is "Deliveries" and the OS X widget is called "Delivery Status".  They are the same app but for some reason junecloud used two different names.


 







  The 'Unite' train has the tendency to change from "Commuter" to "Express" in the blink of a screen refresh - same route & destination but different stops (_fewer and faster_).


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> just swapped out some tubes.
> can't tell a difference with the yugolavian EZ80
> and the British Sylvania EZ80


 
   
  The differences I've heard with different rectifiers in the WA2 are very, very minor compared with the other tubes. I mostly stuck with the Ei EZ80s.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Tube experts, how is Hickok 533?  I'm thinking pick one up soon.


 

  JC, best advise is to see if you can download the tube chart for this tester (or any tester you're considering). See how many of your tubes show up on it, and also consider the British made tubes you have. You may find that too many are missing from the chart, and this tester may not be suitable for your needs (or it could be perfect for you).  There may also be revised charts with more current tubes listed as well. Some of the later tubes may not be available to test (7236 for example).
   
  I'd start searching on the Internet to get a better understanding of what would suit you best.
   
  Hickok does have an extremely good reputation for tube testers.


----------



## shipsupt

I agree.  No one tube tester is going to be perfect for your needs, but you'll want to be sure it has you mostly covered.
   
  From what I read the 533 was a good example of the early Hickocks.  Seems some feel its a little weak for short and leakage testing, but in general it seems like a good unit.  
   
  Will it be refurbished and calibrated?

  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> JC, best advise is to see if you can download the tube chart for this tester (or any tester you're considering). See how many of your tubes show up on it, and also consider the British made tubes you have. You may find that too many are missing from the chart, and this tester may not be suitable for your needs (or it could be perfect for you).  There may also be revised charts with more current tubes listed as well. Some of the later tubes may not be available to test (7236 for example).
> 
> I'd start searching on the Internet to get a better understanding of what would suit you best.
> 
> Hickok does have an extremely good reputation for tube testers.


----------



## Silent One

Earlier this year, I had an opportunity to sit down with shipsupt and watch him work his tube tester with fascination. That he handed back my Raytheon's with a clean bill of health was merely icing on the cake.


----------



## spinn74

Hey.. so does anyone have recommendations for rca interconnects and power cables that work well with these amps, ones that don't break the bank but at the same time don't cripple they setup?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Hey.. so does anyone have recommendations for rca interconnects and power cables that work well with these amps, ones that don't break the bank but at the same time don't cripple they setup?


 


  Any old set of RCA interconnects will work and I thought Woo Audio provided you with a power cable?


----------



## Silent One

The BIG picture --
   
  May I ask what the rest of of your system is comprised of? Details can help (though, I'm off to do some shopping).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Hey.. so does anyone have recommendations for rca interconnects and power cables that work well with these amps, ones that don't break the bank but at the same time don't cripple they setup?


 


  lol i use all audioquest cables in my setup


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> from what i've noticed with my WA2. i can't use grados, akgs, or my pro 900s due to the impedance thing. other people say that have worked. but from what i heard. they work only at lower listening volumes since it doesn't become a problem until the amp has to put out more power.
> 
> the hd 650s sounded really good out of it as well as the dt 990s. however, unfortunately, i learned my dt  990 has a defective driver (just noticed it when i plugged it in since i haven't used my 990s in a while). so now i have to send the 990s to beyer for repair, i'm stuck with only 1 pair of headphones to use my WA2 with, and my check hasn't come in so i can't buy the T1s yet.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you using TS5998 or Sylvania 7236 power tubes? I found my (now sold) WA2 did a very good job driving my Grados and Ed. 8s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Any old set of RCA interconnects will work and *I thought Woo Audio provided you with a power cable?*


 


  Nope. Neither my WA2 or WA22 came with one.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah mine didn't either.
  i just "borrowed" a pc power cable from work lol.
  and then have these mystery brand rca interconnects.  and a belkin pureAV digital that i got for 5 dollars,
  so basically all my cables are garbage LOL.
  but right now its about amp dac headphones (not nec in that order)
  then cables some day
   
  also just a note,
  the Beyer 770 pro 80s have crazy bass out of the WA2.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Nope. Neither my WA2 or WA22 came with one.


 


  Hmm. Looks like I'll need one then when my WA6SE comes? Better start looking around...


----------



## Rawrbington

im not sure how much difference a big power expensive power cable makes.
  ive wondered though


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im not sure how much difference a big power expensive power cable makes.
> ive wondered though


 


  I've wondered that too. Then again, if a headphone cable makes a difference in sound (which in my case, it does) then I guess almost anything is possible, right?


----------



## Rawrbington

absolutely.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Hey.. so does anyone have recommendations for rca interconnects and power cables that work well with these amps, ones that don't break the bank but at the same time don't cripple they setup?


 


 That is the fun part. You can experiment with power cords and RCAs till the cows come home.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> JC, best advise is to see if you can download the tube chart for this tester (or any tester you're considering). See how many of your tubes show up on it, and also consider the British made tubes you have. You may find that too many are missing from the chart, and this tester may not be suitable for your needs (or it could be perfect for you).  There may also be revised charts with more current tubes listed as well. Some of the later tubes may not be available to test (7236 for example).
> 
> I'd start searching on the Internet to get a better understanding of what would suit you best.
> 
> Hickok does have an extremely good reputation for tube testers.


 


  From the research I did, it test all my WA22 tubes.  Including Gm on 6080,


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I agree.  No one tube tester is going to be perfect for your needs, but you'll want to be sure it has you mostly covered.
> 
> From what I read the 533 was a good example of the early Hickocks.  Seems some feel its a little weak for short and leakage testing, but in general it seems like a good unit.
> 
> Will it be refurbished and calibrated?


 


   
  Completed refurbished and calibrated, it also including the plate current meter upgrade.  It is from Bob of Tubesound.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Any old set of RCA interconnects will work and I thought Woo Audio provided you with a power cable?


 

 Website says it doesn't come with one... I got a Tripplite 14awg from amazon for my WA6


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Completed refurbished and calibrated, it also including the plate current meter upgrade.  It is from Bob of Tubesound.


 

 JC, Bob's a good guy. I would email him all the tubes you currently have, just to make sure he agrees (including any British made ones). If he sees no problem, then go for it. Might want to include tubes you would like to have as well (like BL63). Also, if he says it's calibrated, then ask him for some calibration tubes. Basically, he tests 3 or 4 different types of tubes at his location and writes the results on the boxes. When you receive the tester (and calibration tubes), you can retest the tubes he sent you, just to make sure it's still calibrated.  You can also use those tubes a year or two down the road to make sure the tester is still working properly and not giving you false reading.
  
  Also, I would purchase a couple of spare tubes that are inside the tester itself from him. Just as backups.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> JC, Bob's a good guy. I would email him all the tubes you currently have, just to make sure he agrees (including any British made ones). If he sees no problem, then go for it. Might want to include tubes you would like to have as well (like BL63). Also, if he says it's calibrated, then ask him for some calibration tubes. Basically, he tests 3 or 4 different types of tubes at his location and writes the results on the boxes. When you receive the tester (and calibration tubes), you can retest the tubes he sent you, just to make sure it's still calibrated.  You can also use those tubes a year or two down the road to make sure the tester is still working properly and not giving you false reading.
> 
> Also, I would purchase a couple of spare tubes that are inside the tester itself from him. Just as backups.


 


   
  Excellent, I will shoot him another email.  He sent me this pic.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Completed refurbished and calibrated, it also including the plate current meter upgrade.  It is from Bob of Tubesound.


 

 I'm eventually goin' to get mine from Bob of Tubesound (someday...).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Excellent, I will shoot him another email.  He sent me this pic.


 

 Unable to see the pix.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Unable to see the pix.


 


   
  Just uploaded...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol i use all audioquest cables in my setup


 







  Team WireWorld here.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just uploaded...


 







  There's value in that box... _buy it now_.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> JC, Bob's a good guy. I would email him all the tubes you currently have, just to make sure he agrees (including any British made ones). If he sees no problem, then go for it. Might want to include tubes you would like to have as well (like BL63). Also, if he says it's calibrated, then ask him for some calibration tubes. Basically, he tests 3 or 4 different types of tubes at his location and writes the results on the boxes. When you receive the tester (and calibration tubes), you can retest the tubes he sent you, just to make sure it's still calibrated.  You can also use those tubes a year or two down the road to make sure the tester is still working properly and not giving you false reading.
> 
> Also, I would purchase a couple of spare tubes that are inside the tester itself from him. Just as backups.


 


   
  Thanks again, just sent him all the questions and all the tubes I current have and few more I would consider buying.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> There's value in that box... _buy it now_.


 


   
  LOL, it is Christmas eve tomorrow and you expect him to work?  Still have few more questions that Golfnutz suggested.
   
  Thanks again Woo buddies...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Drink and eat more tomorrow and next day but call a cab instead of driving...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> That is the fun part. You can experiment with power cords and RCAs till the cows come home.


 


  Absolutely! I have two systems side-by-side and I enjoy playing around trying different things. If experience has taught me anything, it's to play with one system at a time. Some moons back, I performed a tweak (software settings) and cable swap on the secondary system, liked it. And thought maybe I should implement the same changes on the primary system - things sounded worse. 
   
  Then I found my entire night consumed by restoration; both systems stole from my listening session.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> LOL, it is Christmas eve tomorrow and you expect him to work?  Still have few more questions that Golfnutz suggested.
> 
> Thanks again Woo buddies...
> 
> ...


 


  Woo ownership can lead to wisdom... all the best, jc9394 and other Woo mates!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely! I have two systems side-by-side and I enjoy playing around trying different things. If experience has taught me anything, it's to play with one system at a time. Some moons back, I performed a tweak (software settings) and cable swap on the secondary system, liked it. And thought maybe I should implement the same changes on the primary system - things sounded worse.
> 
> Then I found my entire night consumed by restoration; both systems stole from my listening session.


 


   
  You talking about that cat?  I finally got it working on all my apps after did a fresh install.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You talking about that cat?  I finally got it working on all my apps after did a fresh install.


 

 I need to find a poster with cat in a circle and a diagonal line crossed through it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Like you, I've since straightened things out, but still prefer Snow Leopard on the 2010 Mac mini (lower overhead; fewer background processes).
   
  Your avatar - I've had plenty of time to adjust and accept it. So, why then... do I continue to stare? It's mesmerizing!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Hey.. so does anyone have recommendations for rca interconnects and power cables that work well with these amps, ones that don't break the bank but at the same time don't cripple they setup?


 

 As already mentioned, the amps do not come with a cable.  They all use a low amount of power so any moderate sized cable will do.  Any competent interconnect is fine as well.
   
  Please do not spend anything other than minimal amounts on wire.  Spend your money on that which has a serious impact on the sound, like a better DAC. 
   
  Better yet, do something really weird like buy more music.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> As already mentioned, the amps do not come with a cable.  They all use a low amount of power so any moderate sized cable will do.  Any competent interconnect is fine as well.
> 
> Please do not spend anything other than minimal amounts on wire.  Spend your money on that which has a serious impact on the sound, like a better DAC.
> 
> Better yet, do something really weird like buy more music.


 


   
  X2, I use a Cisco switch power cable.  It is very heavy duty but we have no use at work so I took all of them.  On the interconnect, the one Corey of SWA made for me sound as good as the Furutech one that cost 10x more.


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> Team WireWorld here.


Team Monoprice reporting in


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Great value, most of my hdmi cables are from them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Are you using TS5998 or Sylvania 7236 power tubes? I found my (now sold) WA2 did a very good job driving my Grados and Ed. 8s.


 


   
  ts 5998. all my low impedance cans distort if u pass noon on the volume. and it doesnt get loud with them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ts 5998. all my low impedance cans distort if u pass noon on the volume. and it doesnt get loud with them.


 

  
  That is possibly the behavior of a weak pair of tubes.  The 5998 should provide more drive, not less, and it should improve the amp's performance with low impedance headphones.
   
  You should try and get them independently tested by somebody who knows their way around their tube tester.


----------



## Rawrbington

i very rarely have to turn my WA2 up past noon.
  and its only slightly past and only on old albums that a quiet
   
  11 oclock on my shure 840s is *LOUD*.
  this is with TS 5998s


----------



## Xcalibur255

Indeed.  5998 gives me way more gain than I need in my amp, and remains clear and sorted even at high volumes.


----------



## Draygonn

flaming_june said:


> haha.  I don't think tube amps have ever brought bang for the buck.




My wallet agrees with you. I just bought some 5998s off Golfnutz which brings my tube purchases alone to over twice the cost of my modded T40RPs and E9. Sure is fun though...


----------



## shipsupt

Win!  I got my tester from Bob as well, he's a super guy and a great resource.  Can't recommend him enough.
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Completed refurbished and calibrated, it also including the plate current meter upgrade.  It is from Bob of Tubesound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i very rarely have to turn my WA2 up past noon.
> and its only slightly past and only on old albums that a quiet
> 
> 11 oclock on my shure 840s is *LOUD*.
> this is with TS 5998s


 


  if i plug in my pro 900s. 11 oclock isn't loud, but it doesn't distort. if i turn it past noon, clipping starts.
  same with akg and grado. not very loud
   
  hds don't sound bad until like 3 o clock but thats also really loud.
   
  haven't heard any difference in this compared to the TS 5998 and stock tubes.
   
  you said your 770 pro sounded bad coming out of the amp as well right?
   
   
   
  cause right now i'm worried. some ppl say k 701 and grado sound fine out of this amp. but is that only at low volumes, or am i just deaf now?
  anything past 11-12 oclock on my WA2 sounds bad from my low impedance cans and now i worry if its just due to impedance mismatch, damping factor, etc... or is there a serious fault in the amp? my hd 650s sound just fine, it sounds bassier on the WA2 vs. my 6SE and sounds very well driven. listening to deadmau5 - word problems with my WA2 and hd 650, the bass is just insane.


----------



## nututubes

wapiti said:


> As already mentioned, the amps do not come with a cable.  They all use a low amount of power so any moderate sized cable will do.  Any competent interconnect is fine as well.
> 
> Please do not spend anything other than minimal amounts on wire.  Spend your money on that which has a serious impact on the sound, like a better DAC.
> 
> Better yet, do something really weird like buy more music.




Best advice!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im a bit of a noob to all of this so this brings up a few questions.
> what about overdamping?  does it actually exist?  and why do the 600 ohm beyers like a little higher output impedance?


 

 I don't believe that overdamping actually exists.
  Think about it, How can you exert too much control over a headphone? How can you make it too accurate?
  They probably like the higher output impedance because it makes the bass boomier and less accurate.  Fair enough, if you like it, then enjoy it. I l know sometimes I do. 
  The whole tube vs. solid state thing is very subjective.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  A lot of people like the sound of transformer coupled tube head amps and OTL tube head amps, and there are many reasons why they might like the sound of them, but I doubt it has as much to do with overly high output impedance as they might think.  For example, tubes usually have more second order harmonic distortion which makes for a warmer, fatter, fuller sound.  Tubes are also more microphonic than solid state amps, i.e they ring a bit from airborne vibration, but this probably doesn't apply to head amps. The output transformers also add a bit of distortion. 
  But tube amps are simpler circuits than an op-amp and so use less feedback; there are theories out there that less feedback is better. This is a really complicated subject so I will not get into it.
   
  I have owned a few tube amps for my loudspeakers over the years, while I do like the sound of them I always missed the tighter, punchier bass you get from a solid state amp.  For a while I used a solid state amp on the woofers and a tube amp for the midrange and tweeter, it was one of my favourite set ups as I felt I had the best of both worlds.
   
  Maybe folks just like the sound of 600 ohm Beyers thru tube amps..........I know I do for some music.  The tube amp warms things up a bit.   But personally I also like sound of mine thru a low output impedance solid state amp for some music, sometimes I like the punchiness and articulation and sense of speed I get from a solid state amp. 
  I have a Matrix M Stage which can put out over 24 volts peak to peak so enough voltage for 600 ohm cans is not an issue.
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's not so much that they like higher output impedances, it's that amps with higher output impedances drive the high impedance headphones with less power loss.  Also, it just so happens that many amps with high output impedances are tube OTL amps, which can provide the high voltage swings needed to drive high impedance cans to their best.  In general terms, low impedance cans area more current driven and high impedance cans are more voltage driven.


 


 Amps with higher output impedance drive higher impedance cans with MORE power loss, not less power loss. This is a stone cold fact.
  Amps with lower output impedance drive higher impedance cans with LESS power loss, not more power loss. This is a stone cold fact.
   
  There is no such thing as "impedance matching" when it comes to headphones. Impedance matching is used in digital and RF circuits.
  You can get enough voltage swing out of a solid state head amp, the amp just needs a high enough voltage power supply to do this. So most portables are out.
  This part is true:   low impedance cans require a bit more current,   high impedance cans require a bit more voltage

 Rant over........................


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i very rarely have to turn my WA2 up past noon.
> and its only slightly past and only on old albums that a quiet
> 
> 11 oclock on my shure 840s is *LOUD*.
> this is with TS 5998s


 


 Only with 6080 or 6AS7G tubes my volume setting is at 11. 9 o'clock is pretty loud with 7236 and 5998, for me anything higher than this would hurt my ears. My normal listening level is usually 3 clicks. Since I'm running a true balanced system, my voltage is doubled. Single ended would equate to 2 or 3 more clicks for the same loudness.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Only with 6080 or 6AS7G tubes my volume setting is at 11. 9 o'clock is pretty loud with 7236 and 5998, for me anything higher than this would hurt my ears. My normal listening level is usually 3 clicks. Since I'm running a true balanced system, my voltage is doubled. Single ended would equate to 2 or 3 more clicks for the same loudness.


 


  it looks like you are talking about the WA22. he was mentioning the WA2, which is OTL and has less power than the WA22.


----------



## dminches

If you want a reasonably-priced power cord that is well rated, get one of these http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/ILJPOWER.html 
   
  I have several.


----------



## jc9394

X2 on the famous Jellyfish power cord.  Something wrong with you link.
   
  http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/ILJPOWER.html


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Win!  I got my tester from Bob as well, he's a super guy and a great resource.  Can't recommend him enough.


 


   
  X2, he answered all my questions and suggest the Hickok 533 instead of a different one I inquired.  He said for some of the expensive tubes I got, he recommend a tester to test Gm instead only emission.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it looks like you are talking about the WA22. he was mentioning the WA2, which is OTL and has less power than the WA22.


 


 Right. I wasn't really comparing them. Since they both use the same power tubes, I was only showing the relative differences with higher gain tubes. I would assume with the WA2, using a 7236 or 5998 would mean using less volume (equals less distortion).


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> you said your 770 pro sounded bad coming out of the amp as well right?


 


  no the pro 80s sound good.
  my old 32 ohm 770s that i just sold did not though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> no the pro 80s sound good.
> my old 32 ohm 770s that i just sold did not though.


 


  oh ok.
   
  and my T1s just arrived!!!! OMG!!!! they sound great. definitely on the bright side of thing, but omg they're really good, im sure they'll sound even better with burn-in


----------



## kchew

Wow Dubstep Girl, you're really on a roll! Give the T1s more time, the pair I heard weren't bright at all.
   
  It's already 25th December here in Singapore, so Merry Christmas to all Woozies! We don't have fireplaces here since the weather is perpetually hot and wet, but my WA22 really lights up my night like one!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Wow Dubstep Girl, you're really on a roll! Give the T1s more time, the pair I heard weren't bright at all.
> 
> It's already 25th December here in Singapore, so Merry Christmas to all Woozies! We don't have fireplaces here since the weather is perpetually hot and wet, but my WA22 really lights up my night like one!


 
   
  very very nice pics. love them!!!!! how do u take pics like that so they don't look bad?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it looks like you are talking about the WA22. he was mentioning the WA2, which is OTL and has less power than the WA22.


 

 As mentioned previously, your TS5998s might be on their last legs. When I owned my WA2, I could barely get the volume to 11 o'clock without it being too loud for me to listen to my Grado headphones.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

aww crap. really?
   
  that could be it. 
   
  and stock tubes won't be good enough for grado then right?


----------



## jc9394

Ed/golfnutz, which tube tester you have?  Does your tester test all the WA22 tubes you have?


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very very nice pics. love them!!!!! how do u take pics like that so they don't look bad?


 


  A tripod helps a lot when shooting at night, as some of my exposures are over 10 seconds. You wouldn't want to do that in the dark hand held!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> aww crap. really?
> 
> that could be it.
> 
> and stock tubes won't be good enough for grado then right?


 

 The stock tubes should be plenty for Grados. I'd give them a try and report back.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ed/golfnutz, which tube tester you have?  Does your tester test all the WA22 tubes you have?


 


 JC, actually I have 2 testers. TV-7/U (which basically tests the majority of tubes, except Western Electric types). The other one is Western Electric 15560 (Hickok 539A clone), which doesn't do all my tubes, but will test Western Electric (not that I have any). Right now I have the TV-7 out for service, as it's being re-checked for an issue with a particular type of tube.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh ok.
> 
> and my T1s just arrived!!!! OMG!!!! they sound great. definitely on the bright side of thing, but omg they're really good, im sure they'll sound even better with burn-in


 

  
  I did not like the sound of the T1 with the stock cable (SPC) because it was too bright for me. I re-cabled them with a good OCC Copper cable and they turned into a great sounding pair of headphones.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The stock tubes should be plenty for Grados. I'd give them a try and report back.


 


  just listening to them again. didn't notice as much distortion as before. its weird, now it actually is listenable. however, stock tubes definitely have a bit less juice to them. the rs1 got kinda loud, the 325is did ok, the akg and pro 900s didnt play too nice tho.
   
  gonna try putting the 5998s again and seeing what happens now. 
   
   
  put the 5998s and the clipping happened again. it doesn't happen with the t1/hd 650, but i guess i got bad tungsols ?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> aww crap. really?
> 
> that could be it.
> 
> and stock tubes won't be good enough for grado then right?


 


 Try cleaning the pins on the TS5998.
   


  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just listening to them again. didn't notice as much distortion as before. its weird, now it actually is listenable. however, stock tubes definitely have a bit less juice to them. the rs1 got kinda loud, the 325is did ok, the akg and pro 900s didnt play too nice tho.
> 
> gonna try putting the 5998s again and seeing what happens now.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Try cleaning the pins on the TS5998.


 

 just cleaned them. no change.


----------



## john57

What I use to clean tube pins is Radio Shack Precision Electronic Cleaner 64-4345 and it comes with a stiff brush. It is safe for *some* plastics and takes a bit of time to dry.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just cleaned them. no change.


 


 Send them back. Before they send you another pair, ask them to test the Filament using 6.3 voltage as well (7.5 is the normal setting from the tube chart). Make sure they're within 10% of each other, since this site claims they're rated NOS by their standards. Also, ask for the test results. It might not mean anything to you, but it will keep them honest.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

right now im trying something else.
   
  stock GE6AS7 with my own rectifier and drive tubes (sylvania 6922 and tesla 6ca4).
   
  the akgs are still unlistenable, however, the grado sound good now and the pro 900s are average (the pro 900s sound extremely recessed due to the dark sound of the GE6AS7)
   
   
  lovin' my T1s though. i dont think i can return the tubes, i was looking at the website i bought the tungsols from. oh well.
   
  might just try the sylvania 7236 upgrade from jack on the woo website.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





chris j said:


> There is no such thing as "impedance matching" when it comes to headphones. Impedance matching is used in digital and RF circuits.
> You can get enough voltage swing out of a solid state head amp, the amp just needs a high enough voltage power supply to do this. So most portables are out.
> This part is true:   low impedance cans require a bit more current,   high impedance cans require a bit more voltage.


 


 Thank you.  This needs to be posted - repeatedly - in many threads on this site. 
   
  I share your opinion on "overdamped."  How can a transducer be too quick, too controlled, too good?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just cleaned them. no change.


 


 If you have a soldering iron, give them just enough heat to get solder to flow.  You may have a pin that is not making good internal contact.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> right now im trying something else.
> 
> stock GE6AS7 with my own rectifier and drive tubes (sylvania 6922 and tesla 6ca4).
> 
> ...


 

  
  Jack is selling them for $120. I have 3 NOS pairs in the For Sale Forum (cables) at $70 if you want to save some money. If you want a pair, PM me and I'll sell them to you for $60 (plus shipping and paypal). Same price MacedonianHero paid this week.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> If you have a soldering iron, give them just enough heat to get solder to flow.  You may have a pin that is not making good internal contact.


 


  so just heat the pins?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Jack is selling them for $120. I have 3 NOS pairs in the For Sale Forum (cables) at $70 if you want to save some money. If you want a pair, PM me and I'll sell them to you for $60 (plus shipping and paypal). Same price MacedonianHero paid this week.


 


  I'd absolutely recommend getting them from Golfnutz. About a 50% savings. From Woo Audio, they run $150 shipped.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh awesome! thanks. pmed him. ill just do that for now. 
   
  the WA2 and T1 do sound awesome though. the tungsol are ok for the T1, but definitely getting a good set of power tubes so i can use my other headphones would be nice.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh ok.
> 
> and my T1s just arrived!!!! OMG!!!! they sound great. definitely on the bright side of thing, but omg they're really good, im sure they'll sound even better with burn-in


 

 I enjoy my T70 and it does have a slight treble tilt which helps with dialog and songs. By careful tube matching I can reduce that tilt. The T70 is one of the more sensitive around the ear phones around. At first impression the bass seems very damped but latter on I find that the deep bass is very clean and I can hear it even with more "quiet" slower type of music. Lately I find that the choice of the Rectifier tube can effect the clipping point of strong music peaks in some cases. Enjoy your T1!


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so just heat the pins?


 

 Yes.  The tube wires are soldered to the pins.  The solder can crack, etc.  Re-heating will let the solder flow to fix such flaws.  You can try and see if the pins will wick up a bit more solder.
   
  Heating the pins sometimes fixes crackling as well. 
   
  (And take up Golfnutz's exceedingly kind offer.)


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I did not like the sound of the T1 with the stock cable (SPC) because it was too bright for me. I re-cabled them with a good OCC Copper cable and they turned into a great sounding pair of headphones.


 


  Ah. we were just talking about how silver cables tend to be more bright and copper more warm in one of the cable threads. Hmm, what reachable did you use. Double Helix Cables, Zynsonix?


----------



## john57

It is my belief that capacitance in the cable has more to do with SQ than the choice of wire in the cable. However I do have fancy white locking RCA interconnects using silver wire that are peaky in the treble as compared just plain copper RCA interconnects.


----------



## Silent One

@ Austin Morrow
   






  It's in his signature. We both use Zeus DNA Helix OCC. For me: Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Thank you.  This needs to be posted - repeatedly - in many threads on this site.
> 
> I share your opinion on "overdamped."  How can a transducer be too quick, too controlled, too good?


 


 No sir............thank you.
  Sometimes I feel like a madman howling in the wilderness of Head-Fi!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Wow Dubstep Girl, you're really on a roll! Give the T1s more time, the pair I heard weren't bright at all.
> 
> It's already 25th December here in Singapore, so Merry Christmas to all Woozies! We don't have fireplaces here since the weather is perpetually hot and wet, but my WA22 really lights up my night like one!


 


  "Merry Christmas" to you, the family and others in Singapore. Really enjoyed the pix - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 some of the most beautiful glass I've seen outside of Tiffany's!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Ah. we were just talking about how silver cables tend to be more bright and copper more warm in one of the cable threads. Hmm, what reachable did you use. Double Helix Cables, Zynsonix?


 

 Zeus Quad 22 from Aphroditecu29.com
  I used to use the DHC Complement in my HD800 but I change that one for the Zeus too. Slightly better performance but huge saving in cost and weight.


----------



## ckunstadt

dooood. those pics are beautiful.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Wow Dubstep Girl, you're really on a roll! Give the T1s more time, the pair I heard weren't bright at all.
> 
> It's already 25th December here in Singapore, so Merry Christmas to all Woozies! We don't have fireplaces here since the weather is perpetually hot and wet, but my WA22 really lights up my night like one!


 

 I saved these pics.  Very very nice shots.  Thanks for sharing them. 
   
  I can't help but be bemused by myself, as at this point in my tube affliction I can tell even in the dark that your 6SN7s are VT-231 Raytheon ladder plates.


----------



## hodgjy

What I was trying to say is that if the headphones have lower input impedance than the amp's output impedance, there will be power loss.  That's why OTL amps need high impedance headphones so the phones have higher impedance than the amp.  It's not uncommon for some tube OTL amps to have output impedances of 100 ohms or greater, which is why they do so well with phones of 250, 300, and 600 ohms.  There is little power loss when outputting at 100 ohms from the amp into phones of 600 ohms.  If the 100 ohm ouptut is driving 32 ohm phones, there is great power loss.  That is how circuits work.
  
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> I don't believe that overdamping actually exists.
> Think about it, How can you exert too much control over a headphone? How can you make it too accurate?
> They probably like the higher output impedance because it makes the bass boomier and less accurate.  Fair enough, if you like it, then enjoy it. I l know sometimes I do.
> The whole tube vs. solid state thing is very subjective.
> ...


----------



## grokit

It sounds like you're both right, cheers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> dooood. those pics are beautiful.


 


  I like the Cat 3/Head-Fier status!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (fellow cyclist...)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I saved these pics.  Very very nice shots.  Thanks for sharing them.
> 
> I can't help but be bemused by myself, as at this point in my tube affliction I can tell even in the dark that your 6SN7s are VT-231 Raytheon ladder plates.


 







  To your perspective, Xcalibur255!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only thing left is for kchew to provide the EXIF data...


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I like the Cat 3/Head-Fier status!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  sweet. I'm older and heavier now... but still Cat 3 I guess. Tried a little track racing last year. A total blast.
  Anyhoo... I plan to get a WA6 or SE soon so... totally reading up. Awesome thread.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> sweet. I'm older and heavier now... but still Cat 3 I guess. Tried a little track racing last year. A total blast.
> Anyhoo... I plan to get a WA6 or SE soon so... totally reading up. Awesome thread.


 


  The track is where I got my start in cycling - my Velodrome is at the now renamed Home Depot Center (SoCal). And current owner of a _WA 6 Special Edition... in black! _


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I saved these pics.  Very very nice shots.  Thanks for sharing them.
> 
> I can't help but be bemused by myself, as at this point in my tube affliction I can tell even in the dark that your 6SN7s are VT-231 Raytheon ladder plates.


 

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> To your perspective, Xcalibur255!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Sharp eyes, Xcaliber255! Indeed those are Raytheon VT231 ladder plates, the support rod and diagonal strut on the top mica must've been dead giveaways. If you want the full sized pics, you can PM me. I sometimes upload my Woo pics at my flickr audio set at http://www.flickr.com/photos/pseudophotog/sets/72157627641939323/  as well.
   
  It's now past midnight on the west coast, so officially once again Merry Christmas to all Woozies, and may you guys have a joyous New Year ahead!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Sharp eyes, Xcaliber255! Indeed those are Raytheon VT231 ladder plates, the support rod and diagonal strut on the top mica must've been dead giveaways. If you want the full sized pics, you can PM me. I sometimes upload my Woo pics at my flickr audio set at http://www.flickr.com/photos/pseudophotog/sets/72157627641939323/  as well.
> 
> It's now past midnight on the west coast, so officially once again Merry Christmas to all Woozies, and may you guys have a joyous New Year ahead!


 

 Looking forward to viewing your art in between company, phone calls and football.




  How's your evaluation coming along?




  Edit.:  Couldn't wait that long... wide awake! _Perusing your portfolio was quite the delight. _





 _Thank you, kchew. _


----------



## WindyCityCy

Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## Silent One

Same to you WindyCityCy and those you care about. Currently in-session with Cuban Songstress Xiomara. _Her honey-drenched voice is keeping me up..._


----------



## jerico

Ho ho ho, everyone!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

merry christmas!!! 
   
  <3


----------



## thrak

have a woo xmas everybody!!


----------



## Icenine2

Merry Christmas everybody!!!


----------



## danska

Merry Christmas everyone! Enjoy all the cool stuff you've got this year!


----------



## Draygonn

Merry Christmas to Wooville!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Merry Christmas anyone. Remember, post what you got for Christmas in the thread in the Members Lounge!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looking forward to viewing your art in between company, phone calls and football.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Right now I'm on the Brimar 5R4GY, I put in the EML 5U4G just for Christmas as I wanted the warm glow at night. Next month will be the 596's turn to burn in for one month, then I'll start evaluating in mid Feb.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my tungsol 5998 are definitely bad. my stock GE tubes are way better than the tung sol. i rolled in the tungsol for another listen and they where very veiled.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 everything sounds so distant and just well...awful, comparable to hd 650s off an ipod...
   
  i put in the regular stock power tubes and omg, it sounds wonderful. a little veiled still but good. can't wait to hear the amp with the sylvania 7236. right now, the stock tubes are pretty good. its just a really enjoyable tube sound. very good with the right kind of music. listening to dar william's mortal city album. one of my favorites..


----------



## Wapiti

Sounds like they are worn out and tired; no life nor sparkle, weak.


----------



## spinn74

Quote: 





dminches said:


> If you want a reasonably-priced power cord that is well rated, get one of these http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/ILJPOWER.html
> 
> I have several.


 


  Thanks man, any recommendations for RCA interconnects?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It sounds like you're both right, cheers!


 


   
  Then I will reply with a HO! HO! HO!
  Merry Christmas!


----------



## nututubes

spinn74 said:


> Thanks man, any recommendations for RCA interconnects?




I like _Blue Jeans Cable_ Highest quality, cost effective, no silly claims.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my tungsol 5998 are definitely bad. my stock GE tubes are way better than the tung sol. i rolled in the tungsol for another listen and they where very veiled.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Just a thought here.  The 5998 sounds like this when it is exhausted.  It also sounds like this (though not to this extreme degree in my experience) when they are _true NOS _as well.  Because you mention audible distortion I think you got dealt bad tubes, but I own NOS 5998 which sounded very bad during their first 24 hours and those tubes took nearly 100 hours to hit their normal sound so it is important to not make hasty judgements when you first get new tubes.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I like _Blue Jeans Cable_ Highest quality, cost effective, no silly claims.


 


  Good choice.  I also use Grover Huffman cables.  There are a little more expensive but not crazy.
   
  I would recommend scouring Audiogon.com for used cables.  No reason at all to buy them new.  You can get very nice deals there.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my tungsol 5998 are definitely bad. my stock GE tubes are way better than the tung sol. i rolled in the tungsol for another listen and they where very veiled.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Based on your early descriptions, I am not surprised that you're having issues with your TS5998s. Tough tubes to find in good working order IMO. Your comments of sounding distant is a sign that they are on their last legs.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I would recommend scouring Audiogon.com for used cables.  No reason at all to buy them new.  You can get very nice deals there.


 

 Making one's own is also an excellent option.  Mogami, Canare, etc. and your favorite terminations of choice (Vampire, Neutrik, etc.).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just a thought here.  The 5998 sounds like this when it is exhausted.  It also sounds like this (though not to this extreme degree in my experience) when they are _true NOS _as well.  Because you mention audible distortion I think you got dealt bad tubes, but I own NOS 5998 which sounded very bad during their first 24 hours and those tubes took nearly 100 hours to hit their normal sound so it is important to not make hasty judgements when you first get new tubes.


 

 I've never had this experience with any of the tubes I've owned, but I don't doubt it may be possible.
   
  The problem I see, is what if the tubes are bad? Would it be possible to damage the other tubes or the amp itself trying to get 100 hours in on those tubes?


----------



## Rawrbington

how do the higher impedance cans sound with the 5998s?
  the 650s 990s and T1?
  do they sound good or still bad?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I've never had this experience with any of the tubes I've owned, but I don't doubt it may be possible.
> 
> The problem I see, is what if the tubes are bad? Would it be possible to damage the other tubes or the amp itself trying to get 100 hours in on those tubes?


 
   
  I also have not had this experience.  New tubes can sound dry or brittle, but not a tired tube - but there a lot of tubes out there with which I have no experience.
   
  Generally I don't think a tired tube will hurt anything.  It will try one's patience.


----------



## Ahzari

Hey everyone,
   
  I noticed there were no threads specific to the WA6 but there seemed to be quite a few people interested so I made a thread specific to the WA6, if there are any head-fi'ers (current or past owners) with the WA6 that want to post comments/opinions/reviews that would be great! I'm sure it will help inspire new headphone lovers to consider the awesome amp.
   
  Here's the link:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587285/woo-audio-wa6-tubes-comments-pictures-and-advice#post_8003963


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I've never had this experience with any of the tubes I've owned, but I don't doubt it may be possible.
> 
> The problem I see, is what if the tubes are bad? Would it be possible to damage the other tubes or the amp itself trying to get 100 hours in on those tubes?


 

 I have never experienced it with rectifiers or driver tubes, just power tubes.  A truly new tube takes some for its emission to reach full levels, so it seems logical that the tube would sound dull when brand new just like it does when it is worn out.  I had to hear it for myself to believe it.  The biggest comparison came from the bass.  Was just awful in the first few hours, super tubby and slow.  As the hours piled on it continued to speed up and sharpen until the tube sounded 'in focus' so to speak and this is how it should sound for several thousand hours now.


----------



## Rawrbington

got my hd650s finally!
  after an hour or so of listening my first thought is they aren't that much different than the 990/600 out of my wa2
  less highs.
  a little less lows.
  a little less detailed up top.
  a little more detailed in the middle.
  a little more mid presence.
   
  nice cans though. i like em a lot so far.
  not sure if i like em as much as the 990/600 + WA2 combo though.
  could just be thats what im accustomed to.
   
  anyways really enjoying them!


----------



## PanamaRed

Do any of you vinyl lovers have a record cleaning machine? I'm especially interested to hear opinions of the vpi 16.5


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Do any of you vinyl lovers have a record cleaning machine? I'm especially interested to hear opinions of the vpi 16.5


 

 Im getting a record player soon, still have no Woo... but as far as i understand you should have a few thousand records until you need a cleaning machine. Id still like one with a few dozen records, but they are useful.


----------



## shipsupt

I LOVE my 16.5.  It's the best purchase I've made for vinyl.  I highly recommend it.
   

  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Do any of you vinyl lovers have a record cleaning machine? I'm especially interested to hear opinions of the vpi 16.5


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Do any of you vinyl lovers have a record cleaning machine? I'm especially interested to hear opinions of the vpi 16.5


 
  That's the standard.  Though I suggest looking into the Spin Clean.  http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/
   
  Great reviews, great video reviews and tutorials and effective, but maybe lacking that last tiny bit of super sparkling cleanliness. 

  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *cifani090* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> but as far as i understand you should have a few thousand records until you need a cleaning machine.


 
  Strange logic.  If you have dirty records, no matter how many, they need to be clean or you risk damaging the stylus, and then there's the surface noise...


----------



## Wapiti

I suspect the poster means that a specialized machine is hard to justify when there are excellent ways of washing vinyl by hand.  It's just slower and a bigger bother.


----------



## Eee Pee

I suspect you may be right, because that made no sense to me.


----------



## Silent One

But in LA, we like to have our rides and records detailed by hand or machine. Costs are best left for other household expenses. I remember during the OJ Simpson trial, a visiting NY news correspondent inside the courtroom asked _"What is meant by a car being detailed?"_


----------



## shipsupt

I went through the same process, in the end it is luxury item, one I really enjoy. But even with my small collection I know that I don't have dirty vinyl damaging my gear or shortening needle life. I found that when I was hand cleaning I was tempted to be lazy and not clean everything as well as I do with the machine. 

The other bonus, IMO, is that I am able to buy used records for next to nothing and I know they get a thorough cleaning bringing them back to life. You can do it by hand for sure, but again the luxury of the machine makes it a snap. Dynamics are returned and clicks and pops are all but gone.

I'd gladly give up a little on my turntablle and cartridge budget to get a cleaning machine, but I know some folks actually prefer manual cleaning.






wapiti said:


> I suspect the poster means that a specialized machine is hard to justify when there are excellent ways of washing vinyl by hand.  It's just slower and a bigger bother.


----------



## dminches

I would not be a vinyl lover without my 16.5 (or comparable machine).  A good RCM is essential not only for dirty records but also for new ones which have tons of residue and oils in the grooves and on the surface after the record is cut.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Do any of you vinyl lovers have a record cleaning machine? I'm especially interested to hear opinions of the vpi 16.5


 


   
  Love my VPI 16.5, it is something totally worth having even if you don't have a ton of records. A bit of an investment no doubt, but records sure are too! One thing I can say is get better fluid than the VPI stuff. Something like disc doctor, it really helps bring the surface noise down. My roommate has the VPI 17, while I do like the reverse-able feature, I wouldn't plop the money down for that unit (although I don't mind using it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  If your buying old records at all it is a must have. Especially now that I have a ~$2k cartridge, I clean everything, even new vinyls. I only have experience with VPI machines, can't comment on others.


----------



## indydieselnut

~


----------



## MacedonianHero

^ great setup.
   
  BTW, I really like your rack. Where did you get it?


----------



## indydieselnut

~


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> Thanks for the kind words...the rack is a Quadraspire Evo4 in cherry.  I purchased it for a former speaker-based system and re-purposed it for my headphone system.  If I had more room, I'd prefer everything to be side-by-side...but it works well the way it is.  I have a local dealer that carries the line.  I haven't seen their stuff in much mail-order.  You might just have to search the website for a local dealer.  Cheers!


 


  Cool...thanks! Looks like it would fit in quite nicely in my setup.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Silent One

That is a very nice rack, indydieselnut. Also, I absolutely adore the EML carton! Quite impressive when my glass arrived...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> So...I'm back again.  It has been fun to look back at the first post I made in this thread (post #2) and the fact that I've been an off-again, on-again Woo owner for the past three years.  Jack just finished building me a beautiful WA6-SE and I am enjoying it immensely.  Here are a few pictures...


 

 WOW! (That's all i can say!)
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



What is this? The 1960's? Tube porn in not aloud, what part of that dont you understand? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  What camera/lens are you using? Great photography!


----------



## WindyCityCy

OK who is using a mac mini as their music server?  Why did you go this route?  What tweaks/software do you consider necessary?  Is there anything you feel is lacking?  Sorry for all of the questions.  I've got the itch to upgrade something


----------



## archigius

My Woo 6 SE is here!!
  I'm happy!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  I have some tubes to try:
   
  RCA 6EW7
  ZENITH 6DE7
  RCA 6DN7
   
   
  Now the burn in!


----------



## indydieselnut

Congratulations!!  It's a beauty.  I'll be curious to hear how you like the tube adapters and 6DN7.  I had a large collection of the 6DE7 types and didn't spring for the adapters.  Maybe I'll have to give them a try. 
  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> My Woo 6 SE is here!!
> I'm happy!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## indydieselnut

I've been using an iMac as a music server for about three years now and I think most of that experience would translate to the Mini.  At different times I've had it configured:
   
  1. Using optical digital output directly into a DAC
  2. Using a Halide Bridge USB/SPDIF converter
  3. Using a MF V-link USB/SPDIF converter
   
  Although I was able to hear a slight difference between the toslink output and the converters, I did not hear any appreciable differences between the Bridge and V-link.  My recommendation would be to start with the "naked" Mini running optical out to your DAC and see how you like it.  Then I would look for a second-hand V-link (especially since they've now released the "version 2") and see if you hear any difference in your system. 
   
  I'm running the latest version of iTunes but none of the Amarra/PureMusic type bypass softwares.  From my reading, it seems like the primary benefit is automatic switching of sample-rate...all my iTunes content is 16/44.1.  I will probably do a 15-day trial of Amarra just to see if I can hear audio quality differences. 
   
  I have about half of my 3,500 albums ripped into iTunes and find the easy access liberating.  However, I also found that I was "nibbling" at albums and not drinking deeply.  I've committed to listen to entire albums for the first month of 2012 using my Marantz cd-player to both more deeply connect with the music and to give myself a stable audio benchmark. 
   
  I hope this helps!  Good luck with your journey. 

  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> OK who is using a mac mini as their music server?  Why did you go this route?  What tweaks/software do you consider necessary?  Is there anything you feel is lacking?  Sorry for all of the questions.  I've got the itch to upgrade something


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> Congratulations!!  It's a beauty.  I'll be curious to hear how you like the tube adapters and 6DN7.  I had a large collection of the 6DE7 types and didn't spring for the adapters.  Maybe I'll have to give them a try.


 


  6DN7 are not burned in,  but my first impression is they match better with the 6 SE than the 6, maybe slightly more detailed than the 6DE7 family.
  But it's too early to judge. Also the amp needs a lot of burn in.


----------



## indydieselnut

Rolling the tubes is part of the fun.  Another reason I stayed away from the 6DN7 is the higher output.  With my source, my headphones, and my listening levels, I hardly get above 9 o'clock on the volume with the 6DE7 types. 
   
  I remember my first WA6-SE (with parts upgrades) went through a really rough period of sound from 100-200 hours.  It sounded very good brand-new, I then had a period where the bass became slightly mushy, and then everything tightened back up.  My current WA6-SE is the first one I've had with the stock parts, so I'm curious to see how the break-in goes. 
  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> 6DN7 are not burned in,  but my first impression is they match better with the 6 SE than the 6, maybe slightly more detailed than the 6DE7 family.
> But it's too early to judge. Also the amp needs a lot of burn in.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I remember my first WA6-SE (with parts upgrades) went through a really rough period of sound from 100-200 hours.  It sounded very good brand-new, I then had a period where the bass became slightly mushy, and then everything tightened back up.  My current WA6-SE is the first one I've had with the stock parts, so I'm curious to see how the break-in goes.


 

 Mine is stock also, the only upgrade is the Sophia rectifier; the 6DN7 come from my old Woo 6 and yes, they have more gain/volume.
  Generally new amps/tubes tend to be slightly rought/bright/unrefined, this is while tubes, capacitors and others electrical parts do settle in. For sure the 6 SE seems more similar to a hybrid amp than a classic "tubey" one, but this is a thing a like.


----------



## Draygonn

Great WA6SE eye candy guys!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just moved back into my apt and got everything setup!
   
  the audio rack is a 20 dollar bookcase from walmart lol. works great and looks decent.
   
/


----------



## shipsupt

I've had a chance to spend some time with the 6EM7's in the 6SE this week and I'm not surprised that Jack is recommending and selling them.  The high amplification factor has me using the Ortho's with the Woo instead of the vintage rig.  They are definitely competition for my regular Sylvania fat bottle black plate 6FD7's.
   
  With the EML rectifier they seem quite balanced, detailed, and energetic.  With the RCA (for McIntosh) 5U4GB they were a little less open and quite up front in presentation.  I still need to try a few other rectifiers with them.
   
  Jack sent me some Lindal's when I got the adapters.  Has anyone tried any other 6EM7/6EA7's? 
   
  I'm going to find some others for comparisons now.  I was thinking of starting with some Sylvanias and Tung Sols...  Any recommendations from Wooville?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sylvania 6EW7 are awesome in my amp.
   
  been wanting to try the EML rectifier instead of the sophia in my amp. happy with what i got though.
   
  WA6SE. best amp ever.
   
  the WA2 is just as awesome now as well.
   
  the T1/WA2 combo is just the best i've ever heard. omg can't get enough of it.... just keeps getting better with burn-in.


----------



## Draygonn

dubstep girl said:


> just moved back into my apt and got everything setup!


----------



## snapple10

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just moved back into my apt and got everything setup!
> 
> the audio rack is a 20 dollar bookcase from walmart lol. works great and looks decent.
> 
> /


 
  Nice. Tempted to get w2 but I do not have room for it. I like your set up
  Did u check what weight the bookcase can hold? I can use it to get more gear room


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Nice. Tempted to get w2 but I do not have room for it. I like your set up
> Did u check what weight the bookcase can hold? I can use it to get more gear room


 


  33lbs per shelf.
   
  and yeah i like the height, i can reach the volume knobs easily from my chair and helps with cooling.
   
  the amps look really cool too!
   
  the boards are wood and the  poles are some hard plastic. it looks nice irl despite that and for 20 bucks you cant go wrong! considering audio racks are alot more than that...
   
   
  out of stock online, check your store!
   
  they have a 5 shelf one too for a decent price and a smaller model as well
   
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-4-Shelf-Bookcase-Black/14301665


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> OK who is using a mac mini as their music server?  Why did you go this route?  What tweaks/software do you consider necessary?  Is there anything you feel is lacking?  Sorry for all of the questions.  I've got the itch to upgrade something


 

 I'm using a recent model (2010) aluminum Mac Mini as my music server.  I gradually weaned myself of off using a CD player, and now have a dedicated Mini running the latest iTunes. 
   
  My music is all AIFF, mostly ripped from CDs, and a small amount of HDTracks downloads.  I use Max to convert the 24/96 FLAC files to AIFF.
   
  Tweaks to the Mini are:  Swapped out the hard drive for an OWC Mercury 60GB SSD, and maxed the RAM to 8GB (also from OWC--great place to get Mac stuff online).  I've also deleted/uninstalled/disabled anything not necessary for music playback.
   
  My iTunes library is stored on a Guardian Maximus Mini; this is a small box with two 2.5" hard drives in a Raid 1 configuration, so each drive has its own copy of the library.  I have it connected to the Mini with a 10 foot FW800 cable; this allows me to keep the drive some distance away from my listening chair, so I can't hear any drive or enclosure fan noise.  (These are 500GB drives, and going the SSD route would have been a bit pricey; the long cable eliminates the noise for far less money).  The Guardian was also purchased from OWC.
   
   I also use BitPerfect ($5.00 at the app store) which bypasses the Mac's audio mixer, allows BitPerfect playback, and works perfectly with iTunes.  For me, this does everything possible that a 3rd-party music player can do to improve the quality of iTunes sound; I've tried Pure Music, and heard a difference with it as well, but $129.00 versus $5.00 is a no-brainer.
   
  From the Mini, I use a WireWorld Starlight USB cable, and send the bits to a W4S DAC-2.  Fantastic DAC; recommended by others here at Head-Fi.  For my rig, which consists of 2 amps, it has all the right connections.  I use the balanced outputs from the DAC-2 to feed a Violectric V200, and the unbalanced RCAs are connected to a Woo WA2.  Depending on the recording, I listen with my WA2/HD800 combination, or the V200 with my LCD-2s(r2) or D7000s.
   
  The Mini has no monitor; I control it either from my laptop (MacBook Air, using screen sharing or JollysFastVNC software) or using the Remote App on my iPad2.  I also have LogMeIn Ignition for the iPad, so I can do other things on the Mini that the Remote App can't access.
   
  The Mini is an excellent music server; I find nothing lacking here.  I plan on eventually getting an Apple TV unit for my home theater rig in another part of the house; I should then be able to stream my entire iTunes library to my receiver/speaker setup there.


----------



## hodgjy

I have an Apple Tv hooked up to my home theather setup.  I stream music from my computer to the Apple Tv so it pumps out my speakers.  I can say without a doubt that it does sound good, but it's not as good as a hard wire to the receiver.  I'm not sure if it's the wireless signal or the internal hardware inside the Apple Tv, but the songs being played via Apple Tv are more compressed in sound.  The sound stage is narrower, the highs are slightly rolled off, and the bass impact is a little weaker.  I usually just use it for mixes for when people are over or when I'm working around my place.  It does play very nice, but it's definitely not HiFi.
  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I plan on eventually getting an Apple TV unit for my home theater rig in another part of the house; I should then be able to stream my entire iTunes library to my receiver/speaker setup there.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Thanks indydieselnut.  I'm still in the investigation mode but thinking about trying either a mac mini or the upcoming W4S music server.  I've been using Squeezeboxes for the past 5-6 years.
  
  Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I've been using an iMac as a music server for about three years now and I think most of that experience would translate to the Mini.  At different times I've had it configured:
> 
> 1. Using optical digital output directly into a DAC
> 2. Using a Halide Bridge USB/SPDIF converter
> ...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Some good information here Red Jacket.  I have the W4S Dac2 and an iPad2 also so I'm half way there if I want to connect the mini to my WA22.  I have all of my music in both FLAC and ALAC on my WHS currently.  If I go this route I will probably swap out the drive for a SSD and put the music on external drives as you have done.
  
  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I'm using a recent model (2010) aluminum Mac Mini as my music server.  I gradually weaned myself of off using a CD player, and now have a dedicated Mini running the latest iTunes.
> 
> My music is all AIFF, mostly ripped from CDs, and a small amount of HDTracks downloads.  I use Max to convert the 24/96 FLAC files to AIFF.
> 
> ...


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have an Apple Tv hooked up to my home theather setup.  I stream music from my computer to the Apple Tv so it pumps out my speakers.  I can say without a doubt that it does sound good, but it's not as good as a hard wire to the receiver.  I'm not sure if it's the wireless signal or the internal hardware inside the Apple Tv, but the songs being played via Apple Tv are more compressed in sound.  The sound stage is narrower, the highs are slightly rolled off, and the bass impact is a little weaker.  I usually just use it for mixes for when people are over or when I'm working around my place.  It does play very nice, but it's definitely not HiFi.


 

 I kind of figured that, but I would be using it for the same purpose as you; mostly just background music when others are visiting.  For serious listening, I use my headphone rig anyway.  I do like the idea of having all that music accessible to anyone via my iPad, though.  People could make their own custom playlists during a party, etc.


----------



## hodgjy

I love the genius mixes.  Hit it and forget it.  Awesome.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just moved back into my apt and got everything setup!
> 
> the audio rack is a 20 dollar bookcase from walmart lol. works great and looks decent.
> 
> /


 

_*Racked.*_
   
  It's great to see you successfully move and get settled. Congrats on the rack, standing there looking grand in all its splendor... _and giving cause for concern. _






 Don't be silly, I'm your pal! No no, concern from Dubstep Mom! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Your new ensemble is threatening mother/daughter chats; your return visits home.
   
  However you deal with audio addiction, your move was very nicely done.


----------



## Rawrbington

WOW.
  i actually went to a few thrift stores looking for a shelf like that today.
  i know where im going tonight after midnight!
  thanks for the tip on the audio rack DubstepGirl!
   
  i just hope it will hold this vintage yamaha i just picked up today


----------



## grokit

Quote:


shipsupt said:


> I LOVE my 16.5.  It's the best purchase I've made for vinyl.  *I highly recommend i*t.


 
   
  X3, it's an investment but I think it will outlive my turntable(s). A necessity for any vinyl lover.
   
   
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> OK who is using a mac mini as their music server?  Why did you go this route?  What tweaks/software do you consider necessary?  Is there anything you feel is lacking?  Sorry for all of the questions.  I've got the itch to upgrade something


 

 I use an old (1st-generation Intel core solo) MacMini as an a/v server in my home theatre setup. It looks great through my LCD and DLP video displays. I use a V-link for audio through my HTR's coaxial in/DAC. THe Mini also lets me input on a wireless keyboard and mouse, has wifi and a ethernet port for LAN/internet, has unlimited storage with its USB and FW ports, built-in optical audio, and most importantly it's still going strong! I personally use it as one of my three Macs allowed to run Pure Music with a single license and it sounds great out of my 2.1 speakers, surround 7.1 speakers, or my AD2000 headphones from the HTR's headphone jack.


----------



## shipsupt

Are you using the optical output from the Apple TV?  I am from an apple TV 1 and I've been pretty happy with the sound... I've not noticed the same sound issues you are experiencing.
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have an Apple Tv hooked up to my home theather setup.  I stream music from my computer to the Apple Tv so it pumps out my speakers.  I can say without a doubt that it does sound good, but it's not as good as a hard wire to the receiver.  I'm not sure if it's the wireless signal or the internal hardware inside the Apple Tv, but the songs being played via Apple Tv are more compressed in sound.  The sound stage is narrower, the highs are slightly rolled off, and the bass impact is a little weaker.  I usually just use it for mixes for when people are over or when I'm working around my place.  It does play very nice, but it's definitely not HiFi.


----------



## hodgjy

I use HDMI.  It's not a major loss in sound quality, but it is noticeable.  There's just more circuits for the signal to go through.  I equate it to the FM radio....the sound coming out of the Apple Tv has what I call the "FM effect."  Still enjoyable, though.
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Are you using the optical output from the Apple TV?  I am from an apple TV 1 and I've been pretty happy with the sound... I've not noticed the same sound issues you are experiencing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _*Racked.*_
> 
> It's great to see you successfully move and get settled. Congrats on the rack, standing there looking grand in all its splendor... _and giving cause for concern. _
> 
> ...


 

 lol thanks


----------



## musicman59

Is anybody here using the Bryston BDP-1 musicm player? I am thinking upgrading from my Squeezbox system to a dedicated server. I am thinking inthis Bryston and also in a Mach2Music mini. Do you know if you can use the iTunes library with the Bryston? Is there a good iPad app to allow you manage the unit and manage the music files and playlists?
  Now to make the decision more complicated we have the up coming W4S Music Server.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Is anybody here using the Bryston BDP-1 musicm player? I am thinking upgrading from my Squeezbox system to a dedicated server. I am thinking inthis Bryston and also in a Mach2Music mini. Do you know if you can use the iTunes library with the Bryston? Is there a good iPad app to allow you manage the unit and manage the music files and playlists?
> Now to make the decision more complicated we have the up coming W4S Music Server.....


 


  Yes, send mikemalter a PM. Yes, you can use your iTunes library with the Bryston Player. You could also expand your reach and look at the Vortexbox at vortexbox.org. What's not apparent at first glance is that the Vortexbox can play WAV and a handful of other files not mentioned on the page.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


hodgjy said:


> I use HDMI.  It's not a major loss in sound quality, but it is noticeable.  There's just more circuits for the signal to go through.  I equate it to the FM radio....the sound coming out of the Apple Tv has what I call the "FM effect."  Still enjoyable, though.


 

 I could be wrong, but in general I don't think that HDMI is a bottleneck for digital audio.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol thanks


 






 Curiously, how's the acoustics and ambient noise level in your apartment compared to your room at home? Also, I didn't want to leave you hangin' over a song with lyrics not readily understood. So, I found a translation to "Haram Aleyk." Will send you a link on the other side...


----------



## hodgjy

I wasn't implying it was.  I think the bottleneck is the wireless transfer or the internals of the Apple Tv itself.  Whatever the case, lossless run hardwire vs. lossless wireless does sound different on my system, with the former sounding more full.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> I could be wrong, but in general I don't think that HDMI is a bottleneck for digital audio.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


hodgjy said:


> I wasn't implying it was.  I think the bottleneck is the wireless transfer or the internals of the Apple Tv itself.  Whatever the case, lossless run hardwire vs. lossless wireless does sound different on my system, with the former sounding more full.


 
   
  That makes more sense that it's a wireless issue like with FM radio as you said. I have had that experience with the Airport Express.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> WOW.
> i actually went to a few thrift stores looking for a shelf like that today.
> i know where im going tonight after midnight!
> thanks for the tip on the audio rack DubstepGirl!
> ...


 


  What a way to close out 2011 - Yammy!


----------



## Rawrbington

well i just went to 3 walmarts and none of them had it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  uggghhh i hate walmart.
   
  the yammy is nice but damn its big.
   
  im interested to find out how big the resistors on the headphone jacks are.
  because it really pumps out juice at very very low volume on the dial.
   
  ive read you can replace those resistors with lower impedance ones.  not sure if i need to because the output is hinting that they are lower than typical.  its mainly going to be used for speakers and some orthos some day soon.  and if i understand correctly orthos aren't really particular about output impedance like dynamic headphones are


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I'm using a recent model (2010) aluminum Mac Mini as my music server.  I gradually weaned myself of off using a CD player, and now have a dedicated Mini running the latest iTunes.
> 
> My music is all AIFF, mostly ripped from CDs, and a small amount of HDTracks downloads.  I use Max to convert the 24/96 FLAC files to AIFF.
> 
> ...


 

 We've a lot in common, RJM. I too, have the 2010 Mac mini; 60GB SSD Corsair; 8GB Ram; OWC enclosure for internal HDD; processes disabled; W4S DAC-1 (maxxed); D7000 (4x22awg) ect.
   
  I've a few other tweaks in me but balked at investing anymore money - must be free or very low-cost tweaks only. This is because Monday night I setup my notebook pc to run dual-boot Win7/Ubuntu with XFCE Desktop with MPD server/GMPC client.
   
  So, I'll be looking to tweak and raise the level of playback with my new Linux server.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> OK who is using a mac mini as their music server?  Why did you go this route?  What tweaks/software do you consider necessary?  Is there anything you feel is lacking?  Sorry for all of the questions.  I've got the itch to upgrade something


 






  That itch you've got? Treatable but NOT curable! And unless your Doctor is an audiophile, forget prescriptions, she won't be writing any referrals for you either. However, all is not lost - you still have us! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Take 'Silent One', for example. He uses a 2010 Mac mini as his music server... (pretty much configured the way RJM has).
   
  And he went that route because: 1) Always wanted a Mac.  2) Needed something that could do double duty in a pinch - accept primary role as music server but step in for computing if the PC died unexpectedly. Tweaks & software: 60GB SSD Corsair; 8GB Ram; OWC enclosure for internal HDD; non-audio related processes turned off; Renicing to give higher priority to Amarra/Pure Music; OCC power conditioning cord. Still needed - dedicated linear power supply; isolation transformer. Isolation is lacking which an external linear supply and isolation transformer could address.
   
  So, what are my views currently? The mini's form factor is still sexy; can work in many different environments especially when challenged for space. But it's still a computer first and foremost. And we find ourselves asking the little one to do things like play music and be good at it! So, to make sure we succeed we go about _stripping, eliminating_ or completely _avoiding_ what makes it a computer to begin with.
   
  Costs quickly comes into play - investing time and money to make it less computer-like and more appliance-like. Think about that for a hot minute! One could decide early to start without or with less and achieve or surpass what a computer is trying to do by building or buying a server. And its sole purpose would be to play music... _and be good at it! _


----------



## shipsupt

Interesting.  I remember our friend mikemalter (where are you Mike?) having the same impressions with wireless options.  I don't think he ever got resolution.  
   
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I use HDMI.  It's not a major loss in sound quality, but it is noticeable.  There's just more circuits for the signal to go through.  I equate it to the FM radio....the sound coming out of the Apple Tv has what I call the "FM effect."  Still enjoyable, though.


----------



## shipsupt

You might check in over in the vintage receiver thread.  Some of the units from that era, like the Pioneer SX series are running enough through the HPO to easily drive the hungriest orthos.  Others are still running from the speaker taps.
   
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> well i just went to 3 walmarts and none of them had it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

Two questions for Wooville...
   
  Any tube recommendations for the T1 and the WA6SE?  I'm hoping to not have to start from scratch.
   
  It looks like I might be moving to London for a few years.... am I correct that all I'll need to do is get a different power cord to use my 6SE there?  I'll ask Jack if needed, but I figured I could get a quick confirmation here.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## San Raal

Would any 596 rectifier fans here share where they purchased their stash? I have a pair coming for my woo5 and adaptors from Glenn however looking for a backup pair and ebay is out


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Two questions for Wooville...
> 
> Any tube recommendations for the T1 and the WA6SE?  I'm hoping to not have to start from scratch.
> 
> ...


 

*London.*
   





  (The thought of losing his remarkable neighbor and outstanding Head-Fier leaves 'Silent One' stunned... _and steeped in silence! _But manages to find his words anyway)
   
  shipsupt, that's great to hear (formally)! Wishing you nuthin' but the best... go get 'em! But first, looking forward to gathering with you a time or two or three before you go anywhere, buddy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Would any 596 rectifier fans here share where they purchased their stash? I have a pair coming for my woo5 and adaptors from Glenn however looking for a backup pair and ebay is out


 

 Welcome San Raal! I received my USAF-596 Rec from Glenn also. But my backup stash can be found at:  vacuumtubes.net


----------



## San Raal

Thanks for the Welcome  Im a WA5 owner so should have posted here sooner heh heh. 
   
  I recently had one of my Sophia Princess Mesh 274B fail in the WA5, took the fuse out though thankfully no other damage! I've been shopping around for a replacement rectifier pair. Thanks to Musicman59 for answering my PM's about the WA5 and EML glass - he lead me here and suggested the 596. Im going to be getting the EML 300b mesh as well to upgrade my JJ's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Thanks for the Welcome  Im a WA5 owner so should have posted here sooner heh heh.
> 
> I recently had one of my Sophia Princess Mesh 274B fail in the WA5, took the fuse out though thankfully no other damage! I've been shopping around for a replacement rectifier pair. Thanks to Musicman59 for answering my PM's about the WA5 and EML glass - he lead me here and suggested the 596. Im going to be getting the EML 300b mesh as well to upgrade my JJ's.


 


  Someday I'll get a WA5/WA5LE... someday.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Someday I'll get a WA5/WA5LE... someday.


 


  i think the same thing. "someday". unfortunately for our wallet, i think "someday" is closer than we could ever imagine; at least thats how its been for most of the time i've been into headphones..
   
  i never thought i'd have like 7 pairs of headphones. i got my checks, just gotta deposit them, then ordering LCD-2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i think the same thing. "someday". unfortunately for our wallet, i think "someday" is closer than we could ever imagine; at least thats how its been for most of the time i've been into headphones..
> 
> i never thought i'd have like 7 pairs of headphones. i got my checks, just gotta deposit them, then ordering LCD-2


 

  
  LCD-2 ~
   
_That's n-i-c-e. _Regarding your two rooms (home & away), which location has the better noise floor and acoustics?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> LCD-2 ~
> 
> _That's n-i-c-e. _Regarding your two rooms (home & away), which location has the better noise floor and acoustics?


 

 less noise here. thats for sure. 
   
   
  the WA2 is now pitch black silent and the WA6SE is pretty good here too.
  its more silent than you even 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  acoustic wise, umm about the same.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> less noise here. thats for sure.
> 
> 
> the WA2 is now pitch black silent and the WA6SE is pretty good here too.
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

For sure!  I here for a while yet.  And I'll be back!
   
  In the mean time I can tap into the tube market in Europe!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> *London.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> For sure!  I here for a while yet.  And I'll be back!
> 
> In the mean time I can tap into the tube market in Europe!


 







  I might want to get a head start and using "Valve" every chance I get. So, when you return our conversations will sound natural. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, indeed! I'd like something rare, something French... or British...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I might want to get a head start and using "Valve" every chance I get. So, when you return our conversations will sound natural.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  french


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> less noise here. thats for sure.
> 
> 
> the WA2 is now pitch black silent and the WA6SE is pretty good here too.
> ...


 
  ok ive tried to keep up but i got lost somewhere.  whats the setup wiht the wa2 now?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> french


 







  There's something uncanny about Dubstep Girl's ability to connect with members...


----------



## Rawrbington

just got my new(to me) 5998s.
  plug em in and that pesky barely audible hum is gone from my right channel.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> just got my new(to me) 5998s.
> plug em in and that pesky barely audible hum is gone from my right channel.


 

  
  No sleep for you tonight! You'll be revisiting your favorite tracks just to hear them without that pesky hum.


----------



## hodgjy

I've always found NOS Tung-sol tubes to be very well manufactured and free of buzzes, hums, etc.  The only time I've had problems with Tung-sol tubes is when the seller passed questionable tubes off as NOS.  Otherwise, they have always been beautiful tubes.  Others like RCAs have been more hit or miss for me.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> just got my new(to me) 5998s.
> plug em in and that pesky barely audible hum is gone from my right channel.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've always found NOS Tung-sol tubes to be very well manufactured and free of buzzes, hums, etc.  The only time I've had problems with Tung-sol tubes is when the seller passed questionable tubes off as NOS.


 

 lol you can say that again.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think it was just one of my 5998s was starting to get a little sketchy.  it would burn brighter(burn?), and that side would give that hum or whine when no music was playing.
  but with the price these things are going for these days they'll be kept in reserve


----------



## Dubstep Girl

one of my WA2 also burns brighter than the other. happens with tungsol and my stock. doesn't affect anything i dont think, or its just how the amp is designed lol
   
  i only heard hum or hissing sometimes with my tubes when they werent in all the way or something, i would just tap on them or move them a bit and it stops, and hasnt happened since. think its grounding issues or something.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah it could be the amp, or maybe just differences in tubes?  who knows.
  so did your original 5998s turn out to be good or bad?
   
  what else have you played with in the power and drive slots.
  im always interested in alternatives.
   
  which do you prefer out of your 2?
  the 990s or 650s?
  im starting to really lean towards the 650s whichevers on my head


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i only heard hum or hissing sometimes with my tubes when they werent in all the way or something, i would just tap on them or move them a bit and it stops . . .


 

 I assume you know this, but tapping on warm tubes is very hard on them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> one of my WA2 also burns brighter than the other. happens with tungsol and my stock. doesn't affect anything i dont think, or its just how the amp is designed lol
> 
> i only heard hum or hissing sometimes with my tubes when they werent in all the way or something, i would just tap on them or move them a bit and it stops, and hasnt happened since. think its grounding issues or something.


 







  Tapping them in this manner will lead to an early demise...


----------



## hodgjy

I believe this to be mostly true, so I'm not disputing this in any way.  But, part of me wonders just how much damage this causes.  If you think about it, it wasn't an overly long time ago soldiers in war used tubes in their radios.  With lives on the line in war zone, surely tubes can't be all that fragile, can they?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tapping them in this manner will lead to an early demise...


----------



## 2359glenn

Has anyone seen this E-bay auction?  Dont know the quality or anything about the guy but I just bought some 13D1s from him. IT looks like he has several GEC 6AS7s for sale
  not really a bad price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-GEC-BROWN-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-C-2PC-/370548132448?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item564663ca60


----------



## hodgjy

Man, those sure are getting pricey!  If that is a good price, I'd hate to see a bad price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!
  
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Has anyone seen this E-bay auction?  Dont know the quality or anything about the guy but I just bought some 13D1s from him. IT looks like he has several GEC 6AS7s for sale
> not really a bad price.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-GEC-BROWN-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-C-2PC-/370548132448?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item564663ca60


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Man, those sure are getting pricey!  If that is a good price, I'd hate to see a bad price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've seen them going for much more then that it goes up when you switch to US funds


----------



## 188479

Quote: 





> less noise here. thats for sure.
> 
> the WA2 is now pitch black silent and the WA6SE is pretty good here too.
> its more silent than you even
> ...


 
  Dubstep Girl:
   
  Now that you have the WA2 dialed in with new tubes, how does your Grado RS1 sound with it?  Big difference between the 2 and the 6SE?  Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I believe this to be mostly true, so I'm not disputing this in any way.  But, part of me wonders just how much damage this causes.  If you think about it, it wasn't an overly long time ago soldiers in war used tubes in their radios.  With lives on the line in war zone, surely tubes can't be all that fragile, can they?


 

 True. And that's a much more demanding theater than a listening room. But it is there (the listening room) that I could have been more clear - communications versus fidelity. A tube disturbed could continue to function in a wide variety of applications and deliver like no other. 
   
  Listening to fidelity changes things from a tube merely working to how well it's working. That blast and shock tested Motorola in the theater of battle will have much less concern about fidelity than our vacuum tube amplifiers for playback. So, tapping could lead to the upset or early demise of one's once pristine fidelity. In this case, a tube might as well die.  But this is my view. Standards, anyone?


----------



## Rawrbington

im interested in the difference with those low imp cans as well.
   
  i expect that the output impedance of the 2 is just too high for them to sound incredible.  but may still sound good.
   
  how come i just can't have it all in one peice of equipment for under a grand?!?!?
  something that sounds synergistically fantastic with high and low impedance cans. great bass response while keeping that warm tube musicality.  oh and will also play orthos without breaking a sweat?
   
  is that really so much to ask?


----------



## hodgjy

I think you nailed it.  No one really cares about harmonic distortion, halographic imaging, or note decay when yelling for a medic or where to drop the bombs.  As long as the voice got through, mission accomplished.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> True. And that's a much more demanding theater than a listening room. But it is there (the listening room) that I could have been more clear - communications versus fidelity. A tube disturbed could continue to function in a wide variety of applications and deliver like no other.
> 
> Listening to fidelity changes things from a tube merely working to how well it's working. That blast and shock tested Motorola in the theater of battle will have much less concern about fidelity than our vacuum tube amplifiers for playback. So, tapping could lead to the upset or early demise of one's once pristine fidelity. In this case, a tube might as well die.  But this is my view. Standards, anyone?


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think you nailed it.  No one really cares about harmonic distortion, halographic imaging, or note decay when yelling for a medic or where to drop the bombs.


 
  post of the month.
  hell maybe even year idk


----------



## hodgjy

I aim to please.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> post of the month.
> hell maybe even year idk


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Dubstep Girl:
> 
> Now that you have the WA2 dialed in with new tubes, how does your Grado RS1 sound with it?  Big difference between the 2 and the 6SE?  Thanks!


 


  alot richer in tone and very smooth  however, i think i enjoy the extra energy you get from the WA6SE. the bass is also stronger and puunchier on the 6SE. both are quite enjoyable however. 
   
  waiting for my sylvania 7236 to come in though since they should be better than stock.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> alot richer in tone and very smooth  however, i think i enjoy the extra energy you get from the WA6SE. the bass is also stronger and puunchier on the 6SE. both are quite enjoyable however.
> 
> waiting for my sylvania 7236 to come in though since they should be better than stock.


 


  how did the pro 900s turn out with the wa2?


----------



## hodgjy

The Sylvania 7236 is a nice tube.  It has high gain and good bass impact.  It can sound cold in certain setups, which makes selecting the preamp tubes even more important. 
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> waiting for my sylvania 7236 to come in though since they should be better than stock.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the pro 900s are unlistenable, just not enough power to drive them well.


----------



## Rawrbington

darn.
  do you have any denons?
 the pro 900 and the D2000/D5000 are the ones i've been wanting to get ahold of.  i was hoping(still am) since they don't really require a ton of power that they might sound good(the denons).


----------



## Clayton SF

"Hey! This new Woo234 Mono is great but I though this amp has autobias."
   
  "Well I don't know about that, but according to this manual, you have to adjust the amp by turning that knob up a bit but don't go past 12:00 or you're in for a big surprise."


----------



## hodgjy

I think you need to light a camp fire to heat the filaments!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> "Hey! This new Woo234 Mono is great but I though this amp has autobias."
> 
> "Well I don't know about that, but according to this manual, you have to adjust the amp by turning that knob up a bit but don't go past 12:00 or you're in for a big surprise."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> alot richer in tone and very smooth  however, i think i enjoy the extra energy you get from the WA6SE. the bass is also stronger and puunchier on the 6SE. both are quite enjoyable however.
> 
> waiting for my sylvania 7236 to come in though since they should be better than stock.


 








  _The WA 6 Special Edition knows how to swing!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> "Hey! This new Woo234 Mono is great but I though this amp has autobias."
> 
> "Well I don't know about that, but according to this manual, you have to adjust the amp by turning that knob up a bit but don't go past 12:00 or you're in for a big surprise."


 


  "Happy Holidays, Clayton!" This post made my evening...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _The WA 6 Special Edition knows how to swing!_


 


  indeed it does.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think you nailed it.  No one really cares about harmonic distortion, halographic imaging, or note decay when yelling for a medic or where to drop the bombs.  As long as the voice got through, mission accomplished.


 


  If a guest wanted to tap on my tubes mid-session and suggested "_Oh, it won't hurt anything_..."  I'd gladly exchange their shipping address for my payment info @ Paypal .


----------



## jc9394

Please help me out... Should I get a tube tester or a turntable?  I can only afford one now but in the end, I will most likely get both.


----------



## hodgjy

How often do you roll tubes?  How much vinyl do you own or plan to buy?
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please help me out... Should I get a tube tester or a turntable?  I can only afford one now but in the end, I will most likely get both.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Man, those sure are getting pricey!  If that is a good price, I'd hate to see a bad price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
   
  I saw few around $550 last summer.  That is why I said golfnutz one is very good price.  Hum, only if I don't have two pairs.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> How often do you roll tubes?  How much vinyl do you own or plan to buy?


 


   
  Not rollng as much anymore, I have two set that I use often.  I have probably over 100 LPs that is stored in the garage but most of them are in the 80's to 90's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> "Happy Holidays, Clayton!" This post made my evening...


 

 Happy Holidays 2 u 2!
   
  We've got to start cranking it up in 2012--turn the dial past 12:00--maybe.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just downloaded stevie wonder's innervisions in 24/96 lossless.
   
  finishing cleaning up the apartment listening to it over my klipsch pro media 2.1
   
  sounds really good. i bet it'll sound even better when i put it thru my WA2/T1 later.


----------



## hodgjy

I'd say get the turn table.  If you're not obsessively rolling tubes, you'll likely use your tubes until they croak and then buy new ones.  Hopefully the new ones come from reputable sellers who tested them before selling.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not rollng as much anymore, I have two set that I use often.  I have probably over 100 LPs that is stored in the garage but most of them are in the 80's to 90's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please help me out... Should I get a tube tester or a turntable?  I can only afford one now but in the end, I will most likely get both.


 


  Did the BL63's arrive? If you've not heard your wonderful collection of vinyl in some time, I'd suggest you go with the TT. This way, you could enjoy your music and all your gear. Then bring the tester home at a later date. However, getting the tester now could be prudent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just downloaded stevie wonder's innervisions in 24/96 lossless.
> 
> finishing cleaning up the apartment listening to it over my klipsch pro media 2.1
> 
> sounds really good. i bet it'll sound even better when i put it thru my WA2/T1 later.


 


  I got Stevie from HDTracks on release date..._ love it!_


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Sylvania 7236 is a nice tube.  It has high gain and good bass impact.  It can sound cold in certain setups, which makes selecting the preamp tubes even more important.


 


  MOAR GAIN + MOAR POWER. Nice combination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Smokes the stock power tubes IMO.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Happy Holidays 2 u 2!
> 
> We've got to start cranking it up in 2012--turn the dial past 12:00--maybe.


 

 That will cause some serious ear damage...
   


  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'd say get the turn table.  If you're not obsessively rolling tubes, you'll likely use your tubes until they croak and then buy new ones.  Hopefully the new ones come from reputable sellers who tested them before selling.


 


  that is what I think too, I'm pretty set on the tubes combo I use.  Took me a while but finally decided on the tubes that make my headphones sing.
   
  On turntable, I still not decided on Pro-ject, Rega, or Music Hall.  I hope to keep it under 750 and most likely getting a use on Agon.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I got Stevie from HDTracks on release date..._ love it!_


 


  nice. lol i converted mine to 16/44 at the end though because its easier for me. red book is good enough for me.
   
  its the hdtracks release as well, found it on a torrent


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did the BL63's arrive? If you've not heard your wonderful collection of vinyl in some time, I'd suggest you go with the TT. This way, you could enjoy your music and all your gear. Then bring the tester home at a later date. However, getting the tester now could be prudent.


 


   
  Still no n BL63.  Since the beta22 arrived, I can't convince myself spending that much on a tube anymore.  I have not heard my vinyl for ages, sold my crappy Sony turntable back in the late 90's.  Getting both table and tester is committing suicide, wife is not happy about the table already.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nice. lol i converted mine to 16/44 at the end though because its easier for me. red book is good enough for me.
> 
> its the hdtracks release as well, found it on a *torrent*


 


   
  Bad bad girl...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Bad bad girl...


 


  lol. 
   
  currently got 10k lossless files and like 200gb of lossless left to add to library


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





			
				Clayton SF said:
			
		

> Happy Holidays 2 u 2!
> We've got to start cranking it up in 2012--turn the dial past 12:00-- 8:30 maybe.


 

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That will cause some serious ear damage...


 

 You're right. Must practice safe levels of listening.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just downloaded stevie wonder's innervisions in 24/96 lossless.
> . . .
> sounds really good. i bet it'll sound even better when i put it thru my WA2/T1 later.


 

 It will sound even better if you pay for it.  Then again, so what, the guy's blind anyway.
   
  Thankful you cannot download Woo amps or T1s.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Happy Holidays 2 u 2!
> 
> We've got to start cranking it up in 2012--turn the dial past 12:00--maybe.


 







  Hasn't really rained this autumn... _but I do have a rain check to cash in The City That Knows How. _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> It will sound even better if you pay for it.  Then again, so what, the guy's blind anyway.


 


  and so are the record companies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  listening to LMAO - Champagne Showers right now. hard to listen to on t1 since its a bright recording though


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Bad bad girl...


 


  Bad bad kitty...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're right. Must practice safe levels of listening.


 







 Yes, 8:30 would make my Audiologist proud. Though, I did skip out on her this year...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i'm gonna be deaf before i turn 25 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i like putting grados on and turning the knob on my WA6SE as loud as it gets....


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the reminder. It's been awhile since I've enjoyed Sheila Chandra's "From A Whisper To A Scream..."


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i'm gonna be deaf before i turn 25
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Ask yourself if it is worth it before doing such a thing.  The damage is cumulative and permanent after all.  Wouldn't you rather enjoy music for a lifetime?  It is shockingly easy to harm your ears with headphones too, as many of the brain's natural warning indicators and protection mechanisms don't work correctly when the sound source is 0.5" away from your ear.
   
  A good practical check is this:  for open-back headphones talk out loud in your normal speaking voice while listening.  If you can't make out your own words clearly then you are over doing it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ask yourself if it is worth it before doing such a thing.  The damage is cumulative and permanent after all.  Wouldn't you rather enjoy music for a lifetime?  It is shockingly easy to harm your ears with headphones too, as many of the brain's natural warning indicators and protection mechanisms don't work correctly when the sound source is 0.5" away from your ear.
> 
> A good practical check is this:  for open-back headphones talk out loud in your normal speaking voice while listening.  If you can't make out your own words clearly then you are over doing it.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody know anything about power conditioners?
  theres some Furman's for under a hundred but they look like they are supposed to be rack mounted.
  are they worth while or just glorified power strips?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody know anything about power conditioners?
> theres some Furman's for under a hundred but they look like they are supposed to be rack mounted.
> are they worth while or just glorified power strips?


 

  






 The Rack Mounted units needn't be _racked._ Some have rack ears that are detachable if _the look_ isn't for you. Currently, are you using a power strip? What features are you looking for in a power conditioner - what's needed, what's wanted? I did my share of shopping the last few months. I just received my second power conditioner; two in the last six months. 
   
  Summer saw the Monster Power Center Pro 2500. Now I'm rolling the APC AV H Type Power Conditioner H10 . I had issues with the former - audible & visual alarms were tripped. Can only be repaired or replaced, no reset function for customer. And LCD way too bright, not dimmable. It did a nice job of filtering, however. The latter (APC) is proving to be a very satisfying unit - one of the features I sought was auto-voltage-regulation. Dimmable LCD and runs cool and silent.
   
  Surge protection is something these boxes tend to offer, some more than others. Also, different conditioners will apply clean filtering in different amounts and places in the frequency band. Can't say what brand/model does a good job of some of these things. But these are some of the things you'd want to review and consider.
   
  If someone could comment further on the subject, that'd be great!


----------



## dminches

Power conditioning is important.  And so is surge protection.  If you are using the power conditioner for an amp you want to make sure it is not current limiting.  Like anything else, you can pay a hundred for a PC or you can pays thousands.  In the lower price range Furman, APC and Monster seem to be the popular brands.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I believe this to be mostly true, so I'm not disputing this in any way.  But, part of me wonders just how much damage this causes.  If you think about it, it wasn't an overly long time ago soldiers in war used tubes in their radios.  With lives on the line in war zone, surely tubes can't be all that fragile, can they?


 

 I would assume that the military tube radios were shock mounted to isolate the handling vibration.
  I would also assume that the military tubes were carefully selected and probably built to be more shock resistant.
   
  Tapping on them can cause them to become microphonic.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody know anything about power conditioners?
> theres some Furman's for under a hundred but they look like they are supposed to be rack mounted.
> are they worth while or just glorified power strips?


 


 What do you want to know?
  I used to work in the power conditioning field for 8 years.
   
  Make sure you get a power conditioner designed for audio use.
  A lot of power conditioners are designed for use with computers and only filter out extremely high frequency noise.


----------



## jerico

I forgot to wish my 22 a happy birthday! I unboxed it last year on Christmas night!

Happy birthday to Woo....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I forgot to wish my 22 a happy birthday! I unboxed it last year on Christmas night!
> Happy birthday to Woo....


 

 Happy Birthday!
  My WA22's birthday was on December 7, 2009. Unboxed 2 years and 23 days ago!
  Any other Woobirthday's out there?


----------



## kchew

Mine arrived 17th December last year, so happy belated birthday, WA22 #xxxx042!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





chris j said:


> What do you want to know?


 


  what do they do exactly?  just clean up the power and level off the spikes?  do they really protect from surges?
  i'd like to spend 100$ or less.  would that variation of conditioner even be worth while?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I would assume that the military tube radios were shock mounted to isolate the handling vibration.
> I would also assume that the military tubes were carefully selected and probably built to be more shock resistant.
> 
> Tapping on them can cause them to become microphonic.


 

 Did you know when testing tubes, the manual suggests lightly tapping on the side of the tube during the Shorts test...
   
  Can you really have microphonic tubes in a headphone rig? I never hear any signs of microphonics during play. I thought it was due to vibrations being sent back into the tube, usually associated with external speaker systems.


----------



## archigius

I have a question for the 6 SE owners:
   
  Woo audio claims that a burn in period of 150+ hours is needed before the amp reaches the full performance.
   
  In your experience, what are the changes that happen to the sound?
   
  My amp has now about 10-11 hours.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it does change.
   
  when i upgraded from my old project headbox amp to the WA6SE, i thought the WA6SE sounded almost the same (i was like What, i paid how much for this!?!)
   
  then after like 25 hours, i started hearing how much better the WA6SE was. and it just got better and better after that...


----------



## shipsupt

I have a set thats is very micro phonic for my little dot. Even room vibrations can be heard.  A  tap is highly audible.  I don't have have any for the Woo that are so prone to it.
   
   
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Did you know when testing tubes, the manual suggests lightly tapping on the side of the tube during the Shorts test...
> 
> Can you really have microphonic tubes in a headphone rig? I never hear any signs of microphonics during play. I thought it was due to vibrations being sent back into the tube, usually associated with external speaker systems.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I have a set thats is very micro phonic for my little dot. Even room vibrations can be heard.  A  tap is highly audible.  I don't have have any for the Woo that are so prone to it.


 

 If you tap the bottom of a tube, and can hear it, does that mean the tube is automatically microphonic? Or, are there other characteristics that go into it that makes it micophonic (echoing for example)?


----------



## john57

If you  tap lightly the tube while the amp is on and hear the sound coming from the headphone then your are hearing the microphonics from the tube.


----------



## Draygonn

Finally decided to get the Woo stand, beautiful.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Did you know when testing tubes, the manual suggests lightly tapping on the side of the tube during the Shorts test...
> 
> Can you really have microphonic tubes in a headphone rig? I never hear any signs of microphonics during play. I thought it was due to vibrations being sent back into the tube, usually associated with external speaker systems.


 


  Food for thought --
   
  Souffle's aren't as fragile as many may think. However, mishandling it may accelerate the few minutes needed to serve it before deflating. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Headphones and audiophiles is new frontier and some practices may need adapting. I can often be found tapping inside my own listening room, but it's usually my foot to the likes of Thelonious Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" and other irresistible tunes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Finally decided to get the Woo stand, beautiful.


 

 Gettin' tidy! Great purchase, Draygonn...


----------



## Rawrbington

i really want one of those stands


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Finally decided to get the Woo stand, beautiful.


 

 I've always wanted one of those. Should have ordered it when I got my amp....
   
  Hey wait, what kind of power tubes are in that amp?


----------



## shipsupt

A few thoughts on the subject in general...
   
  Some tubes were designed for rough service, such as the Rayetheon 6111 which was made for fighter jets and capable of withstanding extreme temperatures and G-forces.  Others were made for field (military) radio use and needed to meet MIL-Specs.  However, not all tubes were designed for extremes, some were made for more civil service.
   
  When it comes to mechanical devices, like my 40 year old Leica M3 camera, I use it like it was brand new.  It's as robust today as the day when it was built.  The only thing I have to consider is that I cannot easily replace it.
   
  When it comes to electronics, I can't help but think that 40 years of aging has had an impact, and I tend to treats tubes with some additional respect because of this.  They are quite robust, so while I don't go the whole white glove treatment, I do treat them with great care. These tubes are becoming extinct, so it's sad to think you might cause a premature ending due to rough handling.
   
  So the occasional tap is not likely a killer for a strong tube, but I prefer to save my taps for when I'm testing and not chance doing damage to a 40 year old treasure that can't be replaced.  I'm likely a little conservative, but it's served me well so far.
   
  More specifically to Golfnutz question... My understanding is that there are some tubes that are "naturally" micophonic by construction.  The charged elements are not well insulated from one another, and when they are moved by vibration/tapping a charge can be created between them as the distance between the elements changes.  This charge will flow resulting in noise because the tube actually starts acting more as a microphone.  Designers could (and did) avoid this by adding more insulation between elements. 
   
  When you tap a tube during testing you are not really testing for a tube that is naturally microphonic by design, rather you are searching for tubes that are having a breakdown in insulation allowing for microphonics, which could be an indication of eventual leakage or shorts.
   
   
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> If you tap the bottom of a tube, and can hear it, does that mean the tube is automatically microphonic? Or, are there other characteristics that go into it that makes it micophonic (echoing for example)?


----------



## Silent One

_I fall in shipsupt's camp of best practices..._


----------



## Wapiti

+1
   
  Naturally microphonic tubes pass on vibrations in the air or to which the equipment is exposed and add it to the amplified signal.   This can be a mild hard to hear effect or up to incredibly annoying.  Naturally microphonic tubes should only be used in less critical applications.
   
  Now, everyone, stop tapping on your tubes.  There is no productive reason to do so.
   
  On the issue of military uses for tubes, does anyone know the replacement schedule for tubes placed into service?  In our application a tube can be good for thousands of hours.  In military use, such as in a jet, a hundred hours is a long time.  It would be  reasonable if they automatically replaced them after 25 hours, e.g..


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





			
				Dubstep Girl said:
			
		

> in a weak attempt to justify intellectual property theft: /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> and so are the record companies


 

 Such rationalizations are only needed when you know you are engaged in stealing which is is both illegal and morally reprehensible.  Theft is not acceptable merely because you don't like the person or entity that owns the property.
   
  It's particularly offensive when it's art, is the basis of our hobby, you want the product for leisure enjoyment and you can readily afford to pay for it.
   
  I'll leave the topic alone at this point as I am certain you are fully aware of what you are doing and will continue in any event, which is exceedingly sad.


----------



## shipsupt

That's an interesting question!  I'd imagine they are very conservative when it comes to flight.  On a somewhat related note:
  "The flight computer aboard the space shuttle has less than one percent of the power of an Xbox 360 game console. Astronauts load programs directing the phases of a mission – liftoff, orbit, landing – into the computer one at a time after removing the program for the previous segment. Why hasn’t NASA upgraded the computer? The agency values its 30-year history of reliability. That said, astronauts don’t go into space with only one computer. Crew laptops and other laptops also make the trip.”
   
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> +1
> 
> Naturally microphonic tubes pass on vibrations in the air or to which the equipment is exposed and add it to the amplified signal.   This can be a mild hard to hear effect or up to incredibly annoying.  Naturally microphonic tubes should only be used in less critical applications.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Hey wait, what kind of power tubes are in that amp?


 


  they appear to be tung sol 5998s.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Did you know when testing tubes, the manual suggests lightly tapping on the side of the tube during the Shorts test...
> 
> Can you really have microphonic tubes in a headphone rig? I never hear any signs of microphonics during play. I thought it was due to vibrations being sent back into the tube, usually associated with external speaker systems.


 

 If that's what the manaul says then it has to be a fair test!     I think the main thing here is that the manual says to tap lightly.  Don't hammer too hard.   It's just something I read somewhere, I guess the point is don't overdo it and don't do it again and again and again.
   
  I have had a few tubes go microphonic in a phone pre-amp I have, they got very sensitive to external vibration, for example in the phono pre-amp I would hear a little ping everytime I moved a toggle switch.  These tubes had been in use for several years.
  Or when I would tap lightly on the case the the microphonic tube would go "PPPPIIIIIIIIIIINNNNGGGGG!"   i.e. a fairly long ringing sound.   
  But I think you are correct, this is really something that is more of an issue with a loudspeaker system.  But I guess if your headphone amp stand is not too isolated, then it may get sensitive to footfalls, for example.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> On the issue of military uses for tubes, does anyone know the replacement schedule for tubes placed into service?  In our application a tube can be good for thousands of hours.  In military use, such as in a jet, a hundred hours is a long time.  It would be  reasonable if they automatically replaced them after 25 hours, e.g..


 


 I understand that when they used analog computers with vacuum tubes during WW II to calculate artillary trajectory data they had a policy off NOT turning the equipment OFF as they saw more failures from turning the systems on and off then just leaving the system on.
  I guess the tubes didn't like being cycled on and off, too much thermal stress.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Such rationalizations are only needed when you know you are engaged in stealing which is is both illegal and morally reprehensible.  Theft is not acceptable merely because you don't like the person or entity that owns the property.
> 
> It's particularly offensive when it's art, is the basis of our hobby, you want the product for leisure enjoyment and you can readily afford to pay for it.
> 
> I'll leave the topic alone at this point as I am certain you are fully aware of what you are doing and will continue in any event, which is exceedingly sad.


 

  
   
  im not exactly a rich girl. im still in college.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what do they do exactly?  just clean up the power and level off the spikes?  do they really protect from surges?
> i'd like to spend 100$ or less.  would that variation of conditioner even be worth while?


 

 Sorry folks.................I forgot to use the "multi" button!
   
  Power conditioners do a few things:
   
  The point of surge suppression is not to improve the sound, it is to improve the reliability of your system.
  A surge suppressor is used to suppress very high energy, high amplitude, high frequency spikes which can damage equipment, the classic example of this is a lightning strike.
   
  Protection from surges:
  some power protection equipment will turn off their outputs (receptacles) to your equipment if they see a long term overvoltage (for example. let's say your line voltage from your wall receptacle goes from 120 Vac to 132 Vac or higher), again this is to protect your equipment.
   
  Noise filtering:
  Strange as it may sound, all your various pieces of equipment create unwanted noise that is conducted back down the power line to your other pieces of equipment!
  A good power conditioner will go some way to absorbing this noise so your various pieces of equipment do not pollute each other!   Obviously the other equipment in your houshold also pollutes your equipment. So you are trying to isolate your peices of equipment from each other and from the other stuff in the house.  Any peice of equipment with a DC power supply will create noise which is conducted down the power line. 
*Basically here you are looking for the highest noise rejection numbers and the widest noise rejection bandwidth.*
   
  Really hard to say what a $100 power bar will do for you without trying it out!
  I have a PS Audio Duet which seems to have taken a *layer of low level grunge* away from my CD player and pre-amp. But it was approx $200-300.
  Can you borrow the power bar from a store? Or try one with a money back gaurantee?   Try out the Monster stuff?
  You really have to experiment, try out one piece of equipment plugged into the power bar at a time, try two pieces in a power bar, etc.   I found my phone pre-amp sounded better NOT plugged into the Duet.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> they appear to be tung sol 5998s.


 

 Yeah, but where did he get them...


----------



## Rawrbington

its ok.  you're just "borrowing" the music which is technically still legal right?
   
  where's the line exactly?
   
   
   
  @Golfnutz idk but why are they so expensive these days!?!?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





chris j said:


> If that's what the manaul says then it has to be a fair test!     I think the main thing here is that the manual says to tap lightly.  Don't hammer too hard.   It's just something I read somewhere, I guess the point is don't overdo it and don't do it again and again and again.
> 
> I have had a few tubes go microphonic in a phone pre-amp I have, they got very sensitive to external vibration, for example in the phono pre-amp I would hear a little ping everytime I moved a toggle switch.  These tubes had been in use for several years.
> Or when I would tap lightly on the case the the microphonic tube would go "PPPPIIIIIIIIIIINNNNGGGGG!"   i.e. a fairly long ringing sound.
> But I think you are correct, this is really something that is more of an issue with a loudspeaker system.  But I guess if your headphone amp stand is not too isolated, then it may get sensitive to footfalls, for example.


 

 Well, nice to know us Canadians think along the same lines...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> its ok.  you're just "borrowing" the music which is technically still legal right?
> 
> where's the line exactly?
> i paid for the album/movie and let you "borrow" it.
> ...


 

 Simple economics my friend. Supply and demand...
   
  If anyone wants to take a chance, I found this website last year. I emailed the guy and asked what their return policy was. Basically, he said once they're out the door, you own them and advised I should look elsewhere as they don't generally take tubes back. I never bothered after that. So, if anyone is looking for some 5998's, here's the website. Buyer beware. They're not Tung Sol, but my understanding is they were probably manufactured by Tung Sol and rebranded as Arcturus (there was some suggestion that Arcturus was also in the habit of purchasing B stock from manufactures - I have no idea if this is true or not). Again. BUYER BEWARE. This listing says they have 14 left at $45 each. If I lived in the area, I would probably have checked them out, but I don't, so I didn't.
   
http://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/100/TubesListed_100up_3.html


----------



## shipsupt

Edited for the sake of our thread...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please help me out... Should I get a tube tester or a turntable?  I can only afford one now but in the end, I will most likely get both.


 


  Finally gave in and ordered the PWD MKII upgrade instead...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Can you really have microphonic tubes in a headphone rig? I never hear any signs of microphonics during play. I thought it was due to vibrations being sent back into the tube, usually associated with external speaker systems.


 


   
  Seems like you've had good luck really.  This is one of those things that teaches itself once you get a bad tube.  I have a Chatham 2399 which is incapable of being silent because the spacer tabs which hold the mica against the glass are not tight enough, allowing the entire internal plate assembly of the tube to react to vibrations.  If I set a glass down on the desk the amp is on it sends the tube into fits of noise that it often doesn't recover from.  I also have a tube where the tabs are so loose they don't even hold the mica against the glass anymore and the entire innards of the tube rattle around when you move it from side to side!  That one was definitely a first, and this tube is junk consequently.  When powered up it hums constantly.
   
  My personal test is this:  if you can tap your finger on the chassis of the amp and the tube doesn't produce a farting sound into your headphones then it isn't microphonic to any degree that will ever be problematic.  I have a handful of 6AS7 tubes now that can't pass this simple test.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Simple economics my friend. Supply and demand...
> 
> If anyone wants to take a chance, I found this website last year. I emailed the guy and asked what their return policy was. Basically, he said once they're out the door, you own them and advised I should look elsewhere as they don't generally take tubes back. I never bothered after that. So, if anyone is looking for some 5998's, here's the website. Buyer beware. They're not Tung Sol, but my understanding is they were probably manufactured by Tung Sol and rebranded as Arcturus (there was some suggestion that Arcturus was also in the habit of purchasing B stock from manufactures - I have no idea if this is true or not). Again. BUYER BEWARE. This listing says they have 14 left at $45 each. If I lived in the area, I would probably have checked them out, but I don't, so I didn't.
> 
> http://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/100/TubesListed_100up_3.html


 
  Arcturus branded 5998?  That's a new one.  You might want to ping Rob (Skylab) for an opinion about this too as it seems a wee bit fishy to me.  Tung-Sol, Chatham, and IBM were the known brandings of the tube, that and the Western Electric variant of course.
   
  General thought here not directed at anybody in particular:  all this copyright talk is going to get our thread reported to the mods again I'm thinking.


----------



## shipsupt

Good advice, thanks.  I've edited my post accordingly.  There's a better place for that conversation.

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> General thought here not directed at anybody in particular:  all this copyright talk is going to get our thread reported to the mods again I'm thinking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Arcturus branded 5998?  That's a new one.  You might want to ping Rob (Skylab) for an opinion about this too as it seems a wee bit fishy to me.  Tung-Sol, Chatham, and IBM were the known brandings of the tube, that and the Western Electric variant of course.
> 
> General thought here not directed at anybody in particular:  all this copyright talk is going to get our thread reported to the mods again I'm thinking.


 

*Copy chat.*
   
  You're absolutely right. And this is why the thread has spoken, so the mods and admins won't have to. It is neither coincidence or accident that 'Unite' remains one of the higher quality threads on the site. Internal/external messaging makes many other discussions possible. 
   
  Speaking of musicians, I wonder how our fellow Woo mate and musician Emre (of Emremusic) is doing? His group was last seen (heard?) in Turkey this past summer on tour. It was a long-term gig, wonder if he made it back Stateside...


----------



## Draygonn

golfnutz said:


> Hey wait, what kind of power tubes are in that amp?


Look familiar to ya?:atsmile:



I love the Woo Stand. Solid feel, beautiful design. 
My official relationship with Woo is...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Look familiar to ya?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LoL...thanks for the laugh!
   
  I guess my WA2 (my first Woo Amp) is treating you quite well.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> LoL...thanks for the laugh!
> 
> I guess my WA2 (my first Woo Amp) is treating you quite well.


 

 Peter, your amp and my tubes!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Arcturus branded 5998?  That's a new one.  You might want to ping Rob (Skylab) for an opinion about this too as it seems a wee bit fishy to me.  Tung-Sol, Chatham, and IBM were the known brandings of the tube, that and the Western Electric variant of course.
> 
> General thought here not directed at anybody in particular:  all this copyright talk is going to get our thread reported to the mods again I'm thinking.


 

 Yeah, search this thread. I brought it up before and Skylab did comment on it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Peter, your amp and my tubes!


 
   
  Ed...too funny. Your tubes are in both my old WA2 and my current WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Look familiar to ya?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 







  Wait... this captures my experience in the hobby brilliantly!


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> I guess my WA2 (my first Woo Amp) is treating you quite well.



I'm glad you decided to upgrade. Thanks for breaking it in for me. Plenty of amps sound good, very few look as good as they sound. 

Here is some more Woo Stand eye candy


----------



## MacedonianHero

^
   
  I've got a Woo stand right next to my Woo amp as well...and man they look great together.


----------



## hodgjy

I want everyone to hear this straight from me without the gossip of hearsay.  Yes, I ordered an Asgard today.  But, let it be known that my loyalty will always lie with the Woo crowd.  I lost my hi-fi virginity with the Woo crowd, and therefore, I can never forget you guys.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^^

 A darn good SS amp IMO. Congrats!
   
  I've got the Lyr right here and really like it!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I want everyone to hear this straight from me without the gossip of hearsay.  Yes, I ordered an Asgard today.  But, let it be known that my loyalty will always lie with the Woo crowd.  I lost my hi-fi virginity with the Woo crowd, and therefore, I can never forget you guys.


 


  Do stop by the Cafe when time away from the Asgard & Biology permits. Your presence is valued in this thread. Congrats!





  Now, if I could just find your post in the "Explain-your-avatar" thread...


----------



## hodgjy

Will do.  I like it here.  Spent too much time away.
   
  My avatar......I have two young nieces who like to play rock band with their uncle Jay.  Unfortunately, their mommy has a camera.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Do stop by the Cafe when time away from the Asgard & Biology permits. Your presence is valued in this thread. Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> I've got a Woo stand right next to my Woo amp as well...and man they look great together.




You have quite the drool-worthy setup. Did you look into getting a rack like indydieselnut? That would look very nice in your listening room.



I just realized the Woo Stand cost more than my Orthos lol.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Will do.  I like it here.  Spent too much time away.
> 
> My avatar......I have two young nieces who like to play rock band with their uncle Jay.  Unfortunately, their mommy has a camera.


 


  Family, food and music sounds like great culture to me!


----------



## cifani090

Quote:  





> I'm glad you decided to upgrade. Thanks for breaking it in for me. Plenty of amps sound good, very few look as good as they sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is that white leather stitching on the Fostex's?


----------



## Draygonn

cifani090 said:


> Is that white leather stitching on the Fostex's?




It's from Shure 840 pads. I broke the stitching while fitting them. Since its a modded set I prefer to think it adds 'character' :rolleyes:


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> It's from Shure 840 pads. I broke the stitching while fitting them. Since its a modded set I prefer to think it adds 'character'


 

 It looks great none the less!


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it does change.
> 
> when i upgraded from my old project headbox amp to the WA6SE, i thought the WA6SE sounded almost the same (i was like What, i paid how much for this!?!)
> 
> then after like 25 hours, i started hearing how much better the WA6SE was. and it just got better and better after that...


 

 Thanks for the answer.
  What kind of changes did you notice in the sound?
   
  I remember my old Woo 6 being clearly smoother than the 6 SE with the same tubes. But the 6 SE has only 15 hours on it, the 6 had more than 200.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Well, nice to know us Canadians think along the same lines...


 

 I agree, eh!


----------



## pyramid6

That's a nice rack.  What is it and where do you get one?
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> You have quite the drool-worthy setup. Did you look into getting a rack like indydieselnut? That would look very nice in your listening room.
> 
> I just realized the Woo Stand cost more than my Orthos lol.


----------



## hodgjy

They have their bonuses! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Family, food and music sounds like great culture to me!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> You have quite the drool-worthy setup. Did you look into getting a rack like indydieselnut? That would look very nice in your listening room.
> 
> I just realized the Woo Stand cost more than my Orthos lol.


 


  Not yet...a bit busy with the kids over the holidays. I'll look into it later next week when things simmer down. Gotta say, that rack is one of the best looking I've seen.


----------



## WindyCityCy

NIce decision!  Can't wait to hear what you have to say about it.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally gave in and ordered the PWD MKII upgrade instead...


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Not yet...a bit busy with the kids over the holidays. I'll look into it later next week when things simmer down. Gotta say, that rack is one of the best looking I've seen.


 


  I like it too, so I went looking.
   
  http://www.quadraspire.co.uk/
   
  You can build them to suit your needs, as in less than four shelves.
   
  Not cheap though.  Amazon even has them listed.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Quadraspire-Hi-Fi-Audio-System-Shelves/dp/B004WJUF32/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_t_1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lmao my shelf was 20 bucks at walmart and works perfectly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  looks more expensive too.


----------



## Rawrbington

if i wanted to pre amp a receiver with my WA2 is that possible?
  would i just run interconnects from the pre out on the wa2 to like an aux in on the receiver?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes.


----------



## hodgjy

If your receiver has its own volume control, it's usually recommended that you set it between 3/4 and full and control the sound volume using the preamp.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> if i wanted to pre amp a receiver with my WA2 is that possible?
> would i just run interconnects from the pre out on the wa2 to like an aux in on the receiver?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to Natalia Kills with my pro  900s


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> if i wanted to pre amp a receiver with my WA2 is that possible?
> would i just run interconnects from the pre out on the wa2 to like an aux in on the receiver?


 


 does your receiver have a "power amp in jack"?
   
  If so, use that.


----------



## Rawrbington

nope.
  i put it through the aux and it sounded ok.
  nothing special except i can fine tune the volume a little better than way.


----------



## john57

You could use the "power amp in jack" but you lose the ability to select different sources that are connected to the pre-amp side. Using the Aux or the tape imputs should do the trick as well.

  
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> does your receiver have a "power amp in jack"?
> 
> If so, use that.


----------



## hodgjy

Any line level in port will work just fine.  Aux is one type.  So is CD and Tape in.  Phono in would not be appropriate.


----------



## Rawrbington

by pre amping the vintage yamaha with the woo, what exactly am i doing?  is the woo somewhat shaping the signal a little?  or simply a pass through and giving me a separate volume control?
   
  i think what would sound better is if i ran my modern yammy A-S500 integrated from the woo preamp with pure direct on which bypass all internal bass treble and loudness controls.
  but really i think the woo is best suited being a headphone amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  edit: i like to edit posts lol
  anyways woo health question: is it safe or ok to run the woo as a preamp with the woo on(of course) and the volume turned up for an hour or two WITHOUT having headphones hooked up to it?
  so basically just using the woo as a pre with no cans plugged in and raising the volume?
  i remember being told by someone once that class A or something must have speakers hooked up or it has nowhere for the power to go and you'll fry it.  that just doesn't seem right but i want to be safe.
  thanks
   
  happy new year!


----------



## indydieselnut




----------



## john57

Yes the Woo will shape the sound somewhat. I have the pre-amp output permanently connected to my active monitors. When I wanted to use the speakers I just turn on the AC power to the speakers and disconnect the headphones. This has been working just fine for me. The tube drives the pre-amp output with the volume control.
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> by pre amping the vintage yamaha with the woo, what exactly am i doing?  is the woo somewhat shaping the signal a little?  or simply a pass through and giving me a separate volume control?
> 
> i think what would sound better is if i ran my modern yammy A-S500 integrated from the woo preamp with pure direct on which bypass all internal bass treble and loudness controls.
> but really i think the woo is best suited being a headphone amp
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

ok so the woos safe without cans plugged in?
  that was my number one concern.
   
  shes just so pretty and sounds great with headphones i didn't want to hurt her.
  and she isn't half bad as a preamp either.


----------



## hodgjy

The amps are safe as long as the load goes somewhere, either headphone jack into a headphone or RCA preamp out into a power amp.  Think about it, why would they include a line out if it wasn't safe to use.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ok so the woos safe without cans plugged in?
> that was my number one concern.
> 
> shes just so pretty and sounds great with headphones i didn't want to hurt her.
> and she isn't half bad as a preamp either.


----------



## Rawrbington

thats what i figured.
  just wanted some reinforcement.
  want her to be safe.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It's more of a concern for transformer coupled amps, because the output transformers can be damaged if there is no load present for them.
   
  Happy New Years fellow members.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Happy New Year, everyone--
   
  Up here in the Keweenaw the weather forecast for today is for up to 1 foot of snow with wind gusts approaching 50 mph.  Listening to music will follow moving snow today and tomorrow.


----------



## Draygonn

Happy New Year Unite. 

I wish we had snow today. Christmas lights look out of place in this weather.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow nice.
   
  we have 40s and 50s here in missouri, which i am pretty happy with compared to chicago with 20s and 30s lol. usually winters for me are cold snowy and nasty. the weather has no mercy for chicago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. this year has been pretty good though, not much snow at all.


----------



## grokit

It's a beautiful day up north, a bit chilly tho.
  Happy New Years Woosies!


----------



## spinn74

Do you guys use power conditioners or ac regenerators with your equipment? If so, what are you using? 
   
  If not do you plug your stuff into a power strip?


----------



## hodgjy

I do not use a power conditioner, but I do use a surge suppressor. 
  
  Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Do you guys use power conditioners or ac regenerators with your equipment? If so, what are you using?
> 
> If not do you plug your stuff into a power strip?


----------



## john57

I use a large Hospital Grade AC isolation transformer rated at 2000 watts that has built in full surge protection that all of my audio and video equipment are plugged into. .


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





spinn74 said:


> Do you guys use power conditioners or ac regenerators with your equipment? If so, what are you using?
> 
> If not do you plug your stuff into a power strip?


 

 PS Audio Duet here....doesn't make things much better, BUT it doesn't make things worse...something I've found with many surge protectors (and it does condition power I think).


----------



## pyramid6

Why not a UPS?  If they are built correctly, they pull power off the battery.  You should get clean power that way.  That's what I use anyway.


----------



## john57

I used to have a UPS but the last one almost caught on fire and I had to throw it out using oven mittens into the snow bank. The inverter shorted. I also had a counterpoint power conditioner but it did not like the floor lamp with an dimmer that was in another part of the house but on the same circuit causing it to self [size=11pt]destruct and everything that was plugged into the unit in five seconds. I lost about $2k of equipment including some of the Luxman equipment at the time that could not be replaced. I am not having any issues with my isolation trany. [/size]


----------



## john57

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Why not a UPS?  If they are built correctly, they pull power off the battery.  You should get clean power that way.  That's what I use anyway.


 


  If you get a continuous UPS type in other words the load is always connected to the battery. The AC is used to charge the battery and never goes directly to the load. If you can find one that offers a clean sine wave to the load it can work as well or better than a isolation transformer. The issue is cost.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





john57 said:


> If you get a continuous UPS type in other words the load is always connected to the battery. The AC is used to charge the battery and never goes directly to the load. If you can find one that offers a clean sine wave to the load it can work as well or better than a isolation transformer. The issue is cost.


 


  In the UPS trade this is usually called an On Line UPS.
  You're going to pay a big premuim for one.
  Just be aware that they will have some high frequency switching noise riding on top of the sine wave as they use a switching circuit to recreate the AC sine wave from DC.  
  The only why to see if it works for your system is to try one.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Why not a UPS?  If they are built correctly, they pull power off the battery.  You should get clean power that way.  That's what I use anyway.


 

 I would not recommend doing this.  Most UPSes will degrade the sound, potentially significantly.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I would not recommend doing this.  Most UPSes will degrade the sound, potentially significantly.


 

 Most UPSs are designed to be used with computers, i.e. not designed to supply clean power to audio equipment, they are designed to supply clean power to computer power supplies.
  The UPS designers are not concerned with creating or adding noise in the audio bandwidth which can then (potentially) feed thru the audio equipment power suuplies..
   
  You are usually better off trying something from a vendor of audio equpiment, for example PS Audio.


----------



## claybum

Hi folks, I need to tighten the volume pot on my older wa6.  Posts earlier in this thread state that I need a 2mm hex key to tighten 2 bolts on either side of the pot. My volume pot does not have any hex bolts on it.  I've opened the amp and I'm looking at this thing feeling like a newb and not seeing any bolts that can be tightened. If you can help with any info, I would appreciate it much.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





chris j said:


> In the UPS trade this is usually called an On Line UPS.
> You're going to pay a big premium for one.
> Just be aware that they will have some high frequency switching noise riding on top of the sine wave as they use a switching circuit to recreate the AC sine wave from DC.
> The only why to see if it works for your system is to try one.


 


 Yes, I agree that getting a good sine wave out of a UPS is the key thing to have for Audio equipment. The PS Audio "power plant" unit as they called then start at $3k I noticed that PS unit  while it is not a UPS system uses a capacitor bank to smooth out any high frequency noise riding on the sine wave. That was my Counterpoint conditioner unit was at the time, a capacitor bank. Like I said previous, it caused more problems. The UPS that I throw out in the snow bank could have cause a fire in my house. I brought my leviton isolation transformer at a surplus sale. Less likely for anything to go wrong with that unit and stays cool.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just ordered my D2000 and LCD-2!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  so excited now lol
   
   
  and i miss my dt 990s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  can't wait to get them back from repair.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

also just got my sylvania 7236!!
   
  wow they are awesome!!
   
  they got slightly more power than the tungsol 5998 which i think i have an older pair.
   
  gonna start listening to the new tubes a bit more, but they sound pretty good right now.
   
  very detailed. a little less smooth on the highs, but very nicely detailed and more open sounding.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Yes, I agree that getting a good sine wave out of a UPS is the key thing to have for Audio equipment. The PS Audio "power plant" unit as they called then start at $3k I noticed that PS unit  while it is not a UPS system uses a capacitor bank to smooth out any high frequency noise riding on the sine wave. That was my Counterpoint conditioner unit was at the time, a capacitor bank. Like I said previous, it caused more problems. The UPS that I throw out in the snow bank could have cause a fire in my house. I brought my leviton isolation transformer at a surplus sale. Less likely for anything to go wrong with that unit and stays cool.


 


 The Power Plant sounds like a UPS without batteries.




  And some filtering on the output optimized for audio use.
  What brand UPS did you toss out?

  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> also just got my sylvania 7236!!
> 
> wow they are awesome!!
> 
> ...


 






 Please don't listen too loud for to long? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  two thumbs up on the new tubes BTW.....sounds like you finally got your new Woo going?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just ordered my D2000 and LCD-2!!


 
  Wow!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just ordered my D2000 and LCD-2!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 congrats on the Denons and LCDs ) I want to make that LCD or HifiMan purchase soon too.


----------



## Draygonn

dubstep girl said:


> just ordered my D2000 and LCD-2!!




You are becoming the next MH 

Enjoy!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> You are becoming the next MH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ehem...never owned the D2000s. D7000s twice maybe.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





chris j said:


> The Power Plant sounds like a UPS without batteries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The Tripp Lite lasted about 1 and 1/2 years big floor model no longer made.


----------



## Rawrbington

haha!
   
  i can't wait to hear impressions of both of those out of the WA2.
  im crossing my fingers that the 2 will power the LCDs well.
   
   
  question to any of yous with experience with the woos as a pre amp.
  ive heard conflicting info on how to run the volumes.
   
  should i run the woo at 50-70% volume and then use the yamahas volume as the actual volume control?
  or the other way around.
   
  one person explained it as you want the pre volume up higher than lower because then you are sending more good signal and then amping that signal less.
   
  on the other hand i could turn the yamaha up loud and then use the volume control on teh woo.  but then i would be amping less signal way more.
   
  or am i thinking about this all wrong?
   
   
  also would i see better results upgrading my WA2's power tubes from 5998s to 7236 or upgrading my drive tubes(amprex bugle boy 6DJ8s currently)?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think the LCD-2 will be ok with WA2. im sure the d2000s won't work out of the WA2 due to the low impedance.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> You are becoming the next MH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

I think I had a discussion with you about this earlier.
   
  It's widely preferred to crank the amplifier (in your case, the Yamaha Receiver) and drive the volume levels with the preamp (in your case the Woo).  In fact, some power amps don't even have a volume pot and are fully amplifying the signal.  In those cases, the preamp is absolutely necessary and controls the whole system volume.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> should i run the woo at 50-70% volume and then use the yamahas volume as the actual volume control?
> or the other way around.
> 
> one person explained it as you want the pre volume up higher than lower because then you are sending more good signal and then amping that signal less.
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> i think the LCD-2 will be ok with WA2. im sure the d2000s won't work out of the WA2 due to the low impedance.


 

 They're both relatively low impedance headphones @ 50 & 25 ohms respectively, but the D2000 is much more sensitive so it may do better out of the WA2.


----------



## shipsupt

That's right.  An amplifier's output/power is driven by the input voltage.  If you provide too much input voltage you'll induce clipping.
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think I had a discussion with you about this earlier.
> 
> It's widely preferred to crank the amplifier (in your case, the Yamaha Receiver) and drive the volume levels with the preamp (in your case the Woo).  In fact, some power amps don't even have a volume pot and are fully amplifying the signal.  In those cases, the preamp is absolutely necessary and controls the whole system volume.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think I had a discussion with you about this earlier.
> 
> It's widely preferred to crank the amplifier (in your case, the Yamaha Receiver) and drive the volume levels with the preamp (in your case the Woo).  In fact, some power amps don't even have a volume pot and are fully amplifying the signal.  In those cases, the preamp is absolutely necessary and controls the whole system volume.


 
  In this case I'd agree, but the situation itself is less than idea since the pre-out is really meant to drive a pure power amp without its own volume control.  I think you'll probably get a higher noise floor using it this way, but the difference is likely inaudible or at best very subtle and overshadowed by the color the tubes will put on the music.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so what is the preferred way to do it?


----------



## john57

[size=11pt][size=11pt]If your amp uses a volume control I would use it as a limiter. For example I will turn down the amp volume control. Turn your woo to 3'oclock position and then turn up the amp volume as loud you wanted for loud music. That would set the safe maximum volume level for speakers. Then you have some room to turn up the volume on your woo for soft music if you preferred. This is one method.  I use this similar method for the level trim controls on my active speaker monitors.[/size][/size]


----------



## Dubstep Girl

currently enjoying ultrasone pro 900s and my WA6SE
   
   
  just love the bass in the beginning of this song! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








   
   
   
   
   
  my right ear kinda hurts tho if i put music too loud. i think i hurt my ear last morning when i blasted Tool's "Forty-Six & 2" with my T1 on. I just let the WA2 go as loud as it gets, like 4PM.


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks for the info guys.
  good stuff.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i think i hurt my ear last morning when i blasted Tool's "Forty-Six & 2" with my T1 on. I just let the WA2 go as loud as it gets, like 4PM.


 

 as butthead once said "uuuh tool is cool,  huhuhuhh" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  but seriously, i wish the band would remaster "Undertow".  it's imo their best album but the mastering is simply horrible.  not nearly as bad as 'Opiate' but still pretty hard to listen to.  it's terrible that i need to psych myself up to listen to one of my favorite albums...  i haven't had the courage to try it with my T1s yet.


----------



## PanamaRed

Thanks for all your info regarding the VPI 16.5 guys. I am currently awaiting my unit. I also went ahead and purchased the Walker Audio Prelude Quartet cleaning combination of fluids. This is the first time i've actually been excited to clean something.


----------



## jamesnz

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> currently enjoying ultrasone pro 900s and my WA6SE


 


   
  Please let me/the woo community (woounity?) know how the LCD-2 gets along with the 6se compared to hd650s. I'm looking at this as my next upgrade.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i think i hurt my ear last morning when i blasted Tool's "Forty-Six & 2" with my T1 on. I just let the WA2 go as loud as it gets, like 4PM.


 

 4 oclock?
   
  holy crap.
  noon is blistering with the 650s
   
  you've inspired me to listen to Aenima.
  push it is soo good with my 2 + 650s
  i can't imagine how incredible it is with the 2+T1
   
  dreams


----------



## shipsupt

The whole cleaning ritual becomes rather therapeutic, IMHO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  ​
   
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Thanks for all your info regarding the VPI 16.5 guys. I am currently awaiting my unit. I also went ahead and purchased the Walker Audio Prelude Quartet cleaning combination of fluids. This is the first time i've actually been excited to clean something.


----------



## shipsupt

I can speak for the HD-600 and LCD-2...
   
  The 600's aren't to bothered by driver tube selection and are a great match with the 6SE.  They always seem to sound good.
   
  I find the LCD-2 more sensitive to tube selection.  When you get it right they are brilliant.  With the wrong tubes I find them dull and lifeless.
   

  
  Quote: 





jamesnz said:


> Please let me/the woo community (woounity?) know how the LCD-2 gets along with the 6se compared to hd650s. I'm looking at this as my next upgrade.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I can speak for the HD-600 and LCD-2...
> 
> The 600's aren't to bothered by driver tube selection and are a great match with the 6SE.  They always seem to sound good.
> 
> *I find the LCD-2 more sensitive to tube selection.  When you get it right they are brilliant.  With the wrong tubes I find them dull and lifeless.*


 

 Agreed here....they are very revealing of what you have upfront...but spend the time and find the right tubes and they will reward you in spades.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

will definitely report my comparisons of LCD-2 with WA2 vs WA6SE.
   
   
  also, i plan on  finishing my mid-fi comparison guide.
   
  i need to add DT 880 and HD 600s to that list sometime too....


----------



## hodgjy

I got my HD600s today.  Straight out of the box with no break in they are awesome. They are very balanced. I'm trying to reserve any critical judgement until they break in, but they sound very balanced. They are different than my DT990s. Traditionally, the 990s are said to be strong in the bass and have sizzling treble. I actually think my 600s have more bass than the 990s. But, I think it's a more balanced bass that blends into the mids that makes it sound that way. The 990s may have more sub bass, but the whole bass in the 600s is fuller. Also, the 990's treble does sizzle a little, even on tubes. Overall, the 990s have the "v-shape" eq curve, whereas the 600s are more flat across the whole spectrum. They are awesome cans. They are not muddy or veiled like some people claim. They are open, flat, very detailed, but have a hint of being slightly laid back. I like them! Can't wait for them to burn in even more. Also, my Schiit Asgard SS amp arrives on Friday. It was supposedly voiced using the 600s, so I'm waiting anxiously to hear this pairing. I'm expecting great things.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

this just makes me want to buy the hd 600s more.
   
  but im happy with my hd 650s. still one of my favorite pairs


----------



## grokit

Most people like one or the other in regards to the HD600 and HD650. For myself I prefer the HD600, and have owned both twice.


----------



## Rawrbington

i bet the 600s are awesome.
   
  probably a little more detail up top than the 650 at the expense of a little bass?
  im guessing here.
  but that sounds like a good accurate detailed slightly warm relaxing headphone to me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

would probably sound really good with the WA2.


----------



## Draygonn

dubstep girl said:


> my right ear kinda hurts tho if i put music too loud. i think i hurt my ear last morning when i blasted Tool's "Forty-Six & 2" with my T1 on. I just let the WA2 go as loud as it gets, like 4PM.


4 o'clock?!?!! That must have been hella loud. I've never gone above 12 o'clock. 



Welcome to Head-fi, sorry about your hearing...


----------



## hodgjy

They sound great on my WA3.  The mids are more in focus than my DT990s.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> would probably sound really good with the WA2.


----------



## shipsupt

I didn't get any responses on recommended tube combinations for the T1 and 6SE so I've started to roll and see what I can come up with on my own.
   
  Last night I was running some Amperex 6EW7 drivers with an EML 5U4G rectifier.  I wasn't very impressed, and found the overall presentation a little bright for my taste. 
   
  Today I had some of the 6EA7/6EM7 tubes I ordered started to arrive.  So I decided to go ahead and give them a go.  I also decided to roll in the Brimar 5R4GY.  I went first for the Tung Sol 6EA7.  They've been simmering for several hours now and I'm getting my first good listen.  I am liking this combination much better.  The sound is warmer.  The sound is open, but not expansive.  Plenty of speed.  Using a track I know to be very sibilant is a little strong... perhaps that will improve with some time.  Bass is reaching deep and seems to give some pretty good impact, if that clean hard kick from Clutch I'm hearing is any indication! 
   
  Getting closer, but not sure this is "it" yet...  It's always fun trying. 
   
  And it was good to break the Brimar out again, for some reason I had put it away for quite a long time.


----------



## hodgjy

Yes it is!  That's exactly why I like tube rolling.  Plus, we can read what others say, but it's best to prove it to ourselves.  And, if you get bored with one tube combination, roll in some different ones and enjoy a slightly different sound.  You can have tube mistresses....
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Getting closer, but not sure this is "it" yet...  It's always fun trying.


----------



## shipsupt

I've got to ask!  Where is our silent friend hiding!  Last I heard he was deep into some Linux and some great tunes...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I didn't get any responses on recommended tube combinations for the T1 and 6SE so I've started to roll and see what I can come up with on my own.
> 
> Last night I was running some Amperex 6EW7 drivers with an EML 5U4G rectifier.  I wasn't very impressed, and found the overall presentation a little bright for my taste.
> 
> ...


 
   
  my raytheon 6ew7 are pretty good with the T1, but i find the WA6SE a little bright as well. tolerable and definitely within normal levels, but still slightly bright.  so i just use the WA2 lol. its very close to perfect and with little flaws. just a bit more bass and it would be perfect. right now its very smooth with a hint of warmth and very well balanced.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I've got to ask!  Where is our silent friend hiding!  Last I heard he was deep into some Linux and some great tunes...


 

  




   
  Moi? Been under the hood of the Linux car. Turning the wrench on third install. It's been both fun and interesting! Will likely return to this space Thur/Fri with deoxit all over my hands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking to build a Vortexbox with MPD (Music Player Daemon) next, and make it do what it do! Will start poking around The Goodwill store...
   
  My_ WA 6 Special Edition_ seems to love all the attention lately...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to this right now! 
  
http://soundcloud.com/_type/sets/mountaineer-when-the-air-is-bright-they-shine
   
  "a town called ivanhoe" and "eliza" are my fav tracks right now.
   
  the flac version is awesome, well recorded and sounds great, very chill.


----------



## PanamaRed

Just went to that Vortexbox website. Damn you SilentOne for making me think of getting into another project ::shakes fist::
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Moi? Been under the hood of the Linux car. Turning the wrench on third install. It's been both fun and interesting! Will likely return to this space Thur/Fri with deoxit all over my hands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I didn't get any responses on recommended tube combinations for the T1 and 6SE so I've started to roll and see what I can come up with on my own.


 
   
  Hi, I have 3 pairs of tubes to use with my 6 SE:
   
  6EW7 RCA;
  6DE7 Zenith;
  6DN7 RCA (GE made);
   
  the warmest of the 3 are the 6EW7 RCA. They have very smooth mids and hights and a full bass, big soundstage but slightly less details than the other 2 pairs.
  The tubes with more details are without a dubt the 6DN7, these sounds very smooth but slightly more solid-state. This does not mean they are cold, but they are less tubey than the others i have.
  The rectifier is the Sophia Princess and the headphone the Tesla T1.
  But please consider that my 6 SE is not fully burned-in, it only has 60 hours on it. This has to be taken in account and may affect my listening impressions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Just went to that Vortexbox website. Damn you SilentOne for making me think of getting into another project ::shakes fist::


 
   
  Train Station --
  





  Anything for a fellow Woo mate & Los Angelenos. My audiophile journey this autumn, winter & spring (for 2012) has me at the Grand Terminal. I can be seen standing on the opposing platform - to spend more thought, less cash on the system, in my quest to reach greater heights.


----------



## Shadowboxer

Hi All,
   
  LOVING the WA6 with LCD-2's.  Upgrading to the Sophia tube made a huge difference.
   
  Here's the question; if I upgrade to 6SN7's, will the difference be as noticable as going from the stock tube to the Sophia?  What are the differences you all are noticing moving to the 6SN7 tube?
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## hodgjy

I've had another case of tube voodoo tonight.  My WA3 has been working flawlessly for months.  But, all of a sudden, I got a background hum and static in both channels.  It got louder as I increased the volume.  I knew it was my pre-amp tubes (Sylvania JAN 6DJ8).  They've done this before, but scrapping the pins with a brass brush and reseating them fixed it.  This time, I decided to just drop in some replacement tubes of the same part number because I didn't want to mess with them anymore.  Problem solved.  It's a shame that those tubes appear to be problematic.  I bought two sets when they were going for $40 for a matched pair.  Now the price has skyrocketed.  I'm down to my last pair.  Gotta start investigating suitable alternatives if I can't find a price I like.


----------



## hodgjy

Part of me really loves tube amps.  Their sound, their vintage nature, and the ability to tube roll.  However, sometimes I just love the simplicity and non-voodoo nature of tubes.


----------



## shipsupt

I'm not sure the 6SN7 would be a good match for the LCD-2 as it's not a high gain tube... but of course I've not heard it, so I'm just making this up!   I'm sure we'll get some folks who have tried it...
   
  Quote: 





shadowboxer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> LOVING the WA6 with LCD-2's.  Upgrading to the Sophia tube made a huge difference.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one loved his brief moment with the EML 5U4G and ts 6sn7 bgrp


----------



## Silent One

(_'Silent One' sits quietly, EMLess inside his listening room_...)


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## Gabrielisc

Just FYI
   
  Asked jack why one cant get the WA2 with upgraded parts, apparently its no longer available. So stock WA2 with tube rolling or nothing pretty much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

guess the upgrade parts doesnt offer enough of an improvement to merit the price of 400 dollars or whatever it cost. or he just got bored of it and decided to get rid of the offer


----------



## hodgjy

I remember hearing something once (my memory can trick me, so take it with a grain of salt), but in the past, Woo was having some troubles with parts suppliers--either a reliable supply or prices.  So, they may have to just punt certain options.
  
  Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> Just FYI
> 
> Asked jack why one cant get the WA2 with upgraded parts, apparently its no longer available. So stock WA2 with tube rolling or nothing pretty much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

he still offers upgraded parts on wa5 and i think wes right


----------



## claybum

I believe the blackgates are in short supply and can't be offered on every Woo model.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





shadowboxer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> LOVING the WA6 with LCD-2's.  Upgrading to the Sophia tube made a huge difference.
> 
> ...


 

 I purchased the 6SN7s with the Sophia, I actually enjoyed the stock 6DE7 tubes more, even after about 50 hours of burn in with the 6SN7s I wasn't getting that warmth and smoothness that the 6DE7s; instead I was getting more of a solid state amp-like sound. Just my experience.


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks for that.  I think I have each of those, so I'll give them a shot, RCA's first!
  Cheers!

  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> Hi, I have 3 pairs of tubes to use with my 6 SE:
> 
> 6EW7 RCA;
> 6DE7 Zenith;
> ...


----------



## grokit

I think that they stopped making the blackgates altogether and Woo sold out of their supply for the other amps.


----------



## Silent One

Black Gate Capacitor Wiki ~
   
    Production  The Black Gate production has stopped in 2006, said to be caused by problems between Jelmax Co.,Ltd. and Rubycon Corp., after 18 years of availability. The capacitors were manufactured by Rubycon under license for Jelmax Co.,Ltd. which should close its doors in August 2007, once all their stocks get sold out.

 Once the capacitors will become unavailable, or the current stocks become too old to be used due to deterioration, alternatives will have to be found. The Black Gate was very affordable when comparing it to some other similar-performing capacitors, and was easily available.


----------



## Silent One

Additionally, for whatever reason, the Board of Directors at Jelmax Co. no longer wanted to maintain production or relations with Rubycon Corp. Went to court and obtained a "Cease & Desist" order (strange...). Cannot confirm this news story, but it made for an interesting read last year.


----------



## Xcalibur255

An awful lot of fuss over an electrolytic cap.  Though, if your application is unsuited for film caps I suppose they were the best option.  Still, in those cases I would think a Nichicon Muse or Elna Silmic II would make a fine substitute today.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I purchased the 6SN7s with the Sophia, I actually enjoyed the stock 6DE7 tubes more, even after about 50 hours of burn in with the 6SN7s I wasn't getting that warmth and smoothness that the 6DE7s; instead I was getting more of a solid state amp-like sound. Just my experience.


 


  I'm waiting for an adapter from Glenn to try the 6SN7 on the Woo 6 SE, curious to hear if the 6SN7 sounds similar to the 6DN7 that i'm using now.
   
  For sure the two 6DE7 and 6EW7 that i have are more "tubey", but i'm really impressed by the  details i'm hearing with the 6DN7. I think there are some subtle details that i never heard before!
   
  Now i'm on 70 hours of the burn-in and the 6 SE continues to impress me, it's becoming smoother and more analogical sounding.
  During the fist hours of listening, the amp sounded very aggressive in the hight frequencies, but at half of the recommended 150 hours burn-in time, it' waaaay better! The first significant changes happen after 50 hours, so this amp really needs to sound a lot!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i just love my raytheon 6ew7. its a perfect sound, don't have to look for anything else. it just sounds perfect to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  i never find bright headphones bright on my WA6SE. the mids are just right, bass is tight, soundstage and everything else is just where it needs to be.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





archigius said:


> I'm waiting for an adapter from Glenn to try the 6SN7 on the Woo 6 SE, curious to hear if the 6SN7 sounds similar to the 6DN7 that i'm using now.
> 
> For sure the two 6DE7 and 6EW7 that i have are more "tubey", but i'm really impressed by the  details i'm hearing with the 6DN7. I think there are some subtle details that i never heard before!
> 
> ...


 

 From Woos Website "6EW7 is a dual triode tube, consisting of one drive triode and one power triode. Its performance is similar to a combination of a 6SN7 and a 2A3." So I figure the 6SN7 may not sound all that different, I actually sent back the woo adaptors with the WA6 I returned and am waiting on a WA6SE with the 6FD7s. I noticed he didn't list the 6SN7s as a drive tube option for the SE but did list it for the WA6.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i just love my raytheon 6ew7. its a perfect sound, don't have to look for anything else. it just sounds perfect to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  are the drive tubes that come with WA6SE raytheon? if not does anyone know what type the stock unit comes with?


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> are the drive tubes that come with WA6SE raytheon? if not does anyone know what type the stock unit comes with?


 


  mine came stock with Raytheon 6EW7s.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mine i think came with sylvania stock. not sure tho since the upgrade came with the amp.
   
  i have sylvania and raytheon 6ew7. i use the raytheon though and never tried the sylvania. (i plugged them in once and they sounded harsh, but was too lazy to burn in lol)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my LCD-2 and D2000!!!!
   
  the lcd-2 seem a little bass light still and i think they need burn in.
   
  they sound reallly good though, like a refined but more neutral version of hd 650s.
   
   
  and the d2000 are bass monsters lol. 
   
   
  gonna start burning them in now and will give impressions later and update that one thread i have comparing all the headphones lol.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got my LCD-2 and D2000!!!!
> 
> *the lcd-2 seem a little bass light still and i think they need burn in.*
> 
> ...


 

 To me, the burn in does not help with LCD-2.


----------



## shipsupt

The 6SN7 is not an option with the 6SE without an adapter that includes a resistor wired in.  Without it you'll have very short tube life.  It's not recommended by Jack, but many are using them.  Woo doesn't offer these adapters, but Glenn does make them.
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> From Woos Website "6EW7 is a dual triode tube, consisting of one drive triode and one power triode. Its performance is similar to a combination of a 6SN7 and a 2A3." So I figure the 6SN7 may not sound all that different, I actually sent back the woo adaptors with the WA6 I returned and am waiting on a WA6SE with the 6FD7s. I noticed he didn't list the 6SN7s as a drive tube option for the SE but did list it for the WA6.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> are the drive tubes that come with WA6SE raytheon? if not does anyone know what type the stock unit comes with?


 

 You can choose the driver tubes you prefer, just email Jack Wu before the amp is shipped and if the tubes you need are in stock, he will ship the amp with those tubes.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> To me, the burn in does not help with LCD-2.


 


  x2


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nvm the bass is there. its just that its neutral with the rest of the spectrum.
   
  paying more attention tho, holy crap it goes super deep. it just doesn't stand out though, but rather, blend in with the rest of the sound.
   
  it is VERY textured and detailed though. even more so than my hd 650s.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> From Woos Website "6EW7 is a dual triode tube, consisting of one drive triode and one power triode. Its performance is similar to a combination of a 6SN7 and a 2A3." So I figure the 6SN7 may not sound all that different, I actually sent back the woo adaptors with the WA6 I returned and am waiting on a WA6SE with the 6FD7s. I noticed he didn't list the 6SN7s as a drive tube option for the SE but did list it for the WA6.


 


  I think the 6SN7 may sound very similar to the 6DN7 i'm now using, it's from the same tubes family.
   
  About the 6SN7 on the 6 SE, the adapter is only available as a 3rd party upgrade from a trusted head-fi user.
  It's a particular adapter, because it reduces the available voltage to make the 6SN7 compatible with the more powerful 6 SE.
   
  Actually i don't know how much of the 6 SE power may be lost using this adapter.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> From Woos Website "6EW7 is a dual triode tube, consisting of one drive triode and one power triode. Its performance is similar to a combination of a 6SN7 and a 2A3."


 

 I've always found this a bit of a stretch.  The 2A3, afterall, is one of the best regarded audio triodes in existence.  I have heard people describe the 6DN7 as the "poor man's 45" before, which would make it my primary target if I were still tube rolling my Woo.  Any of the tubes which were used to control sweep or other beam functions in a CRT television is considered to work pretty well for audio use because of how linear and precise their job function was intended to be.  That is what Woo Audio has done with the 6DE7/6EW7, they just found some sweep tubes that nobody had used in a design before in order to offer good sound at reasonable tube prices.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> The 6SN7 is not an option with the 6SE without an adapter that includes a resistor wired in.  Without it you'll have very short tube life.  It's not recommended by Jack, but many are using them.  Woo doesn't offer these adapters, but Glenn does make them.


 

 haha no i understand that, I meant, even the adaptor with the 6SN7 tube is not listed a upgrade option on the woo audio website fore the WA6SE, whereas it is listed for the the WA6.. I figure that is because Jack doesn't think its a good match (don't know...).


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





archigius said:


> I think the 6SN7 may sound very similar to the 6DN7 i'm now using, it's from the same tubes family.
> 
> About the 6SN7 on the 6 SE, the adapter is only available as a 3rd party upgrade from a trusted head-fi user.
> It's a particular adapter, because it reduces the available voltage to make the 6SN7 compatible with the more powerful 6 SE.
> ...


 

 gotcha.. makes sense, hence why Jack didn't list it with the SE model.


----------



## shipsupt

I'm not sure why he doesn't recommend it?  Possibly because adding the resistor is going to impact the output power from the 6SE?   Or just because it get's away from his intended design?  It's a good question.
   
  I know that while Glenn makes the adapters he's not a big fan of them, he recommended other options to me when I was interested.  I've been happy with those other options, but there are some very happy 6SN7/6SE users here as well... I know I've been tempted, but I figure sooner or later I can get a listen to someones rig with a 6SN7 before I go down that road.
   
   
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> haha no i understand that, I meant, even the adaptor with the 6SN7 tube is not listed a upgrade option on the woo audio website fore the WA6SE, whereas it is listed for the the WA6.. I figure that is because Jack doesn't think its a good match (don't know...).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

and the lcd-2 are so huge!!! the cups are bigger than my hands lol


----------



## Dubstep Girl

LOVE THEM!! <3
   
  and the travel case that the lcd-2 came in is pretty neat too!


----------



## archigius

Sorry wrong post


----------



## jc9394

Decided to do some rolling tonight and found out that USAF 596, Treasures, and TS7236 match very well with LCD-2.  It is very balanced with excellent soundstages and extended bass.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Decided to do some rolling tonight and found out that USAF 596, Treasures, and TS7236 match very well with LCD-2.  It is very balanced with excellent soundstages and extended bass.


 

 Agreed on the Treasures + 7236s. I like the Sophia Princess Mesh as the final touch with them...so much so, I picked up a backup one. Sadly one of my Treasures went extremely microphonic over the holidays. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Luckily the place I picked them up gave me an exact matching tube (thankful that Shuguang notes how each tube measures for easier matching pairs) to replace it a month out of warranty. So I'm back in business. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Treasures are great tubes...just a bit pricey. Still can't decide whether I prefer them or my VT-231s or 5692s with my LCD-3s. But thankfully all three sound great with them.


----------



## jc9394

I like the Princess but not as much as the EML 274B, the USAF 596 is excellent for the price.  It is like a combined EML 5U4G and 274B.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I like the Princess but not as much as the EML 274B, the *USAF 596* is excellent for the price.  It is like a combined EML 5U4G and 274B.


 


  Next on my "To do list".


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Next on my "To do list".


 


   
  You should really give it a try sooner than later.  Make sure to get one before our friend SilentOne buy them all.
   
  The more I listen to it, the more I like the current combo.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You should really give it a try sooner than later.  Make sure to get one before our friend SilentOne buy them all.
> 
> The more I listen to it, the more I like the current combo.


 

 Been a bit busy with the holidays...but plan to this month.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA6SE + LCD-2 = awesome.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Decided to do some rolling tonight and found out that USAF 596, Treasures, and TS7236 match very well with LCD-2.  It is very balanced with excellent soundstages and extended bass.


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I like the Princess but not as much as the EML 274B, the USAF 596 is excellent for the price.  It is like a combined EML 5U4G and 274B.


 

 Interesting description, how would you compare the 596 to the Princess in combination with the Treasure/7236 combo?


----------



## jc9394

Don't have the Princess anymore.  When I said 274B, I'm referring to the EML version.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to the LCD-2 with my WA6SE. its starting to warm up and the bass is getting better now after 10 hours, i think i found the perfect headphone for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
   
  good bass, good mids, good highs, whats not to like?
   
   
   
  the bass is even better than my HD650s and my K701s. its like a combo of both.
   
  the texture and bloom of the hd 650s with the control and tightness the k701 has..its too awesome to describe.
   
  sure its not as punchy as my other headphones or as fun, but its just super clean and detailed unlike anything i've ever heaard.....


----------



## jc9394

Just wait til you try it on a higher power amp, WA5, LF, or beta22.  It also scale very well with better sources.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the bass is finally coming out on the lcd-2
   
  listening to robyn - crash and burn girl. well actually that whole cd (i love it), and all the songs are coming out really clean and punchy sounding


----------



## Ahzari

if I already have a sophia princess does anyone recommend me getting a EML 5UAG as well.. is there that much sound difference with "rectifier rolling" can anyone comment on which matches better with Woo amps?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> if I already have a sophia princess does anyone recommend me getting a EML 5UAG as well.. is there that much sound difference with "rectifier rolling" can anyone comment on which matches better with Woo amps?


 


  It is personal preference, I do prefer both EML 5U4G and EML 274B better than the Princess.  Take a look at Mullard GZ34/7 or USAF 596 (adapter is needed) for different sound signatures.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is personal preference, I do prefer both EML 5U4G and EML 274B better than the Princess.  Take a look at Mullard GZ34/7 or USAF 596 (adapter is needed) for different sound signatures.


 

  
  from your experience, do you mean that the EML's are more musical than the sophia or more expansive in soundstage? haha or just everything is better..?
   
  I'm pretty sensitive to sharp treble, I read some places that the new EML tubes have more treble presence...


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> listening to the LCD-2 with my WA6SE. its starting to warm up and the bass is getting better now after 10 hours, i think i found the perfect headphone for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  so is your love affair with the T1 over?  i am very curious as the LCD2 was on my list but i have lost my headphone upgraditis since i got my T1.  i love my T1 so much so that the HD800s are getting jealous and giving me dirty murderous looks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> listening to the LCD-2 with my WA6SE. its starting to warm up and the bass is getting better now after 10 hours, i think i found the perfect headphone for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Reminder --
   
  It's great to see you enjoying the LCD-2/WA6SE combo.




  But, remember to take breaks. Otherwise, you're going to be left feeling "Woozy..."


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> from your experience, do you mean that the EML's are more musical than the sophia or more expansive in soundstage? haha or just everything is better..?
> 
> I'm pretty sensitive to sharp treble, I read some places that the new EML tubes have more treble presence...


 

 You should try the Mullard GZ37 instead if you are sensitive to sharp treble, on EMLs I do not notice on any treble issues.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thrak said:


> so is your love affair with the T1 over?  i am very curious as the LCD2 was on my list but i have lost my headphone upgraditis since i got my T1.  i love my T1 so much so that the HD800s are getting jealous and giving me dirty murderous looks


 


  I prefer the LCD-2 over the T1 by a wide margin, I have the T1, LCD-2, and the HD800 at the same time.  After two weeks of comparisons, the T1 went to chopping block.  The LCD-2 and HD800 compliments to each other.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> from your experience, do you mean that the EML's are more musical than the sophia or more expansive in soundstage? haha or just everything is better..?
> 
> I'm pretty sensitive to sharp treble, I read some places that the new EML tubes have more treble presence...


 


  For me, rolling tubes is a lot like musical chairs. When the evaluation stops, some recordings inside your music library are going to be left without a seat. Sometimes, when you change a tube, your favorites may or may not get that chair. Of course, also for me this is all system-genre-recording dependent. 
   
  I enjoyed my time with Miss Sophia. I listen to a lot of Jazz and she returned good plucks of the Bass strings and thwacks on the drums with a big bloomy presentation. On the other hand, the EML 5U4G then came along and brought more detail but a slightly smaller stage, a little less Bass which could result in a perceived sharper or simply more treble presence. A fine tube in my view. 
   
  The arrival of United Electronics Company's mighty USAF-596 rectifier marked the first time I had ever seen tubes inside my listening room get intimidated. This tube was no jokin', baby! Bigger-wider-taller-deeper... with greater detail. I spent a week rolling in all 12 pairs of drive tubes with no change in verdict. Regarding detail, admittedly there were a small number of tracks where I found low level detail more pronounced or less so versus the EML. But on the whole, the '596' returned detail like no other rec I've had.
   
  Then synergy reared its head - bought a pair of Tung-Sol BGRP's and discovered they paired better with the EML Glass that I had sold earlier in the day to danska. Curious, I decided to have one last listen before shipping the EML. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  If you're listening danska..._ "Gimme back my son!" _
   
  I really like the EML Glass inside my Woo. And look forward to its return in the near future._ _


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For me, rolling tubes is a lot like musical chairs. When the evaluation stops, some recordings inside your music library are going to be left without a seat. Sometimes, when you change a tube, your favorites may or may not get that chair. Of course, also for me this is all system-genre-recording dependent.
> 
> I enjoyed my time with Miss Sophia. I listen to a lot of Jazz and she returned good plucks of the Bass strings and thwacks on the drums with a big bloomy presentation. On the other hand, the EML 5U4G then came along and brought more detail but a slightly smaller stage, a little less Bass which could result in a perceived sharper or simply more treble presence. A fine tube in my view.
> 
> ...


 


  Awesome comparison, thank you. Those USAF-596 Rectifier tubes are tough to find! haha but I'll keep an eye out.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





thrak said:


> so is your love affair with the T1 over?  i am very curious as the LCD2 was on my list but i have lost my headphone upgraditis since i got my T1.  i love my T1 so much so that the HD800s are getting jealous and giving me dirty murderous looks


 


  lol, my T1s are giving me those looks as well now. but the grado and akg are the ones that probably don't like me right now. 
   
  im loving the LCD-2 more than the T1 but they sound different and each one brings something new to the table, so i love all my headphones but listen to some more than others. it just depends on your mood. i wouldn't get rid of them because eventually theres that one day when you just feel like popping in some grados and rocking out or something like that...


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Reminder --
> 
> It's great to see you enjoying the LCD-2/WA6SE combo.
> 
> ...


 

 sure will! just took a 1 hour break lol. ive been listening to music for like 8 hours today though.


----------



## Shadowboxer

Will the USAF-596 fit directly in my WA6 or do I need an adapter?


----------



## hodgjy

WA3 + HD600 + Mark Knopfler = sonic bliss.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shadowboxer said:


> Will the USAF-596 fit directly in my WA6 or do I need an adapter?


 


  you need an adapter...


----------



## Shadowboxer

What kind of adapter/where I can get one?


----------



## jc9394

PM 2359glenn, he is a member here.


----------



## shipsupt

Nice images of the new CD transport and DAC are up on the Woo home page...


----------



## Silent One

Woo Audio website--
   
  And not a single Black amp on the Products cover page... *Blacklisted?*


----------



## grokit

jc9394 said:


> It is personal preference, I do prefer both EML 5U4G and EML 274B better than the Princess.  Take a look at Mullard GZ34/7 or USAF 596 (adapter is needed) for different sound signatures.


 
   
  For myself the Sophia gave me the best of both EML worlds and added its own more agressive character. With the LCD-2 I prefer the EML 274B to their 5U4G. I've been rolling the Sophia around with the CBS-Hytron 274B and Brimar 5Z4G lately, and plan to re-visit the EMLs soon to decide if I will sell them to try some others like the latter ones you mention.
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The LCD-2 and HD800 compliments to each other.


 

 Totally agreed here


----------



## grokit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilentOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 
  Nice write-up


----------



## grokit

Speaking of, what's the deal here no antennas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Those USAF-596 Rectifier tubes are tough to find! haha but I'll keep an eye out.


 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USAF-596-rectifier-tube-Very-rare-1956-/270809029549


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> Nice write-up


 







  Thanks... merely trying to draw potential sellers of EML Glass out of the Great vast North.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Speaking of, what's the deal here no antennas
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  





  Although, it is quite dark inside the listening room, I see the twin antenna design. Ok, everyone, what year is your rare USAF-596?
   
  Silent One - February 1957 (7-07)


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ok, everyone, what year is your rare USAF-596?
> 
> Silent One - 1957


 

  
  How do you tell? Mine has something which looks like "59" scrawled badly on the top mica of my 596.


----------



## Clayton SF

I just love it when Jack updates his homepage. More Woocandy!


----------



## john57

While I was at the RM AF in Denver I spend a great amount of time using the new Woo CD player and their DAC that was connected to the Woo WA5LE so that I can use my test CD that I brought to compare different headphones that I was interested in. I even borrow headphones from different tables so that I can use the same equipment to made comparison between different headphones more meaningful. The Woo CD player DAC combination was very smooth in operation and worked better than some of the other CD players at the show.


----------



## Icenine2

Every time I see the new designs I think Master Lock!!  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just love it when Jack updates his homepage. More Woocandy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> How do you tell? Mine has something which looks like "59" scrawled badly on the top mica of my 596.


 

 Greetings kchew!
   
  Not sure about those few in the wild, but mine came in the original box - looks like its origin is PHILA-1957 (Philadelphia?). The lot seems to be from a production run between 1956-57. Date Packed is February 1957. Code on base of tube is 7-07 (1957-7th week).
   
  I can't say if the scrawled "59" is missing the "6." I'm also guessing that the tube's designation is an abbreviation of the full part number - 5960-636-0109.






  Well... something for me to count while I wait for my Champagne Brunch, complete with Southern style Cinnamon Brown Pecan waffles w/Pure Canadian Maple Syrup.


----------



## archigius

Hi head-fi, i'm definitely liking a lot my Woo 6 SE with the 6DN7 RCA tubes but it seems that Jack doesn't store other 6DN7. If somebody owns and does not use/like some RCA or General Electrics 6DN7, please pm me, i maybe interested.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Woo Audio website--
> 
> And not a single Black amp on the Products cover page... *Blacklisted?*


 

 I asked Jack why sometime ago. He said it is much more difficult to get good pictures out of the black finish products. It seems like the finish produces more reflections to the lights.


----------



## pyramid6

I just got my WA22, very nice amp.  I'm trying to figure out which tubes to get.  Anyone have a short list of tubes I should try?  I've read through about a dozen threads in the last few days and there are so many choices.  I'm driving a T1.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Icenine2

I no longer have my WA22 with my T-1's but had great results w/EML 5U4AG and Shuguang 100 Treasures.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I no longer have my WA22 with my T-1's but had great results w/EML 5U4AG and Shuguang 100 Treasures.


 

 What are Shuguang 100 Treasures?
   
   
  Edit: These http://thetubestore.com/sh-cv181-z.html?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> What are Shuguang 100 Treasures?
> 
> 
> Edit: These http://thetubestore.com/sh-cv181-z.html?


 

 Yes, that's them. I'd also recommend some NOS VT-231 (RCA or Sylvania) or 5692 (red or brown base) for alternatives. I'm a fan of all of them actually.
   
  For power tubes, I'm partial to the 7236 Sylvanias or Tung-Sols with the WA22.


----------



## Rawrbington

i had to be away from my home rig for 3 almost 4 days.
  wow.
  i missed her dearly.
  listening to cheap jvc marshmallows and friends beats studios for 3 days.
   
  you get used to them which is kind of a perk.
  because when you get back home and turn on the woo, plug in the cans, and then listen....   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  its as close to getting new gear as i can get without actually buying new gear lol


----------



## pyramid6

Thanks for the suggestions.  That should get me started.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I just got my WA22, very nice amp.  I'm trying to figure out which tubes to get.  Anyone have a short list of tubes I should try?  I've read through about a dozen threads in the last few days and there are so many choices.  I'm driving a T1.
> 
> Thanks


 


 Welcome to the club pyramid!  You're really going to enjoy the WA22. Just make sure you feed it a balanced source to maximize it's full potential.
   
  If you're looking for tubes, you should PM JC9394 (he contributes frequently on this forum). I know he was selling some extra tubes he had for his WA22 to fund another project he was looking at. He may still have some available.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Welcome to the club pyramid!  You're really going to enjoy the WA22. Just make sure you feed it a balanced source to maximize it's full potential.
> 
> If you're looking for tubes, you should PM JC9394 (he contributes frequently on this forum). I know he was selling some extra tubes he had for his WA22 to fund another project he was looking at. He may still have some available.


 

 Thanks, I had a WA6, but I sold it to Skylab.  I regretted that.  There is just something special about Woo Amps.  I have a balanced DAC, but I'm looking to get a better one soon.  I hope Shiit Audio announces their new DACs soon.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I just got my WA22, very nice amp.  I'm trying to figure out which tubes to get.  Anyone have a short list of tubes I should try?  I've read through about a dozen threads in the last few days and there are so many choices.  I'm driving a T1.
> 
> Thanks


 


  Budget?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I just got my WA22, very nice amp.  I'm trying to figure out which tubes to get.  Anyone have a short list of tubes I should try?  I've read through about a dozen threads in the last few days and there are so many choices.  I'm driving a T1.
> 
> Thanks


 

 Depending on the budget, I would include:
   
  For drivers:

 Tung-Sol 6SN7 BGRP (oval plates actually) or Tung-Sol 6F8G w/ adapter
 Sylvania 6SN7 Bad Boys (1952 with copper grid posts) or Sylvania 7N7 with aapter
 Mullard ECC 32
   
  For Power tubes:

 Tung-Sol 7236 or 5998
 Sylvania 7236
   
  For rectifier:

 EML 5U45 mesh plate
 Sophia Pricess 274B
 Mullard GZ37
   
  Oh... I don't have T1 HFs, I have HD800s.
   
  Hope this Helps


----------



## Ahzari

for those who use or have used tube dampers, besides limiting micro phonics, is there a noticeable improvement in detail? I read a few posts here that said there wasn't a "huge change" but herbie's has some new (i think) Hal-O III all titanium dampers, I wonder if those would have a greater effect... 
   
  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/haloiii.htm


----------



## cacatalysis

I am having a WA22/HD800/PS audio DLIII or ECD-1 set up for mostly classic music.  In your set up, could you give your combination of tubes.   
  Quote:


nututubes said:


> Depending on the budget, I would include:
> 
> For drivers:
> 
> ...


----------



## spagetka

I am using duende and improvement is noticeable.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> for those who use or have used tube dampers, besides limiting micro phonics, is there a noticeable improvement in detail? I read a few posts here that said there wasn't a "huge change" but herbie's has some new (i think) Hal-O III all titanium dampers, I wonder if those would have a greater effect...
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/haloiii.htm


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Budget?


 


  No real budget.  Even if I wanted to, I couldn't buy them all at once or in one place.  The Shuguan, EML and Sophia can be bought new, but a lot of the NOS tubes have to be found.
   
  Nututubes gave a good starter list (http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/17565#post_8039851).  Those tube kept getting mentioned.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the LCD-2 is awesome@!#!@##!@#@!#1
   
   
   
  sounds amazing off my WA6SE.
   
  and to those wondering, the LCD-2 does not work very well on the WA2 unless you listen to bass light music at lower volumes.
   
  also, the combo tends to sound too slow and syrupy for my tastes.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> I am having a WA22/HD800/PS audio DLIII or ECD-1 set up for mostly classic music.  In your set up, could you give your combination of tubes.


 

 WA22/HD800 for classical music I like EML 5U4G mesh with ECC32 drivers and TS 7236 power tubes


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks for answering my question.  Have you tried 596 (adapter) with TS7236/ECC32?  Among the ECC32 variants, is there a difference?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> WA22/HD800 for classical music I like EML 5U4G mesh with ECC32 drivers and TS 7236 power tubes


 


  Humm, I don't have the ECC32 luxury.  I use GEC 6AS7G roundbase, TS BGRP, and EML 274B.


----------



## cacatalysis

6AS7G/TS BGRP seems to be similar to TS7236/ECC32 in terms of expense.  Have you tried 596 with GEC 6AS7G/TS BGRP.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> 6AS7G/TS BGRP seems to be similar to TS7236/ECC32 in terms of expense.  Have you tried 596 with GEC 6AS7G/TS BGRP.


 


  Yes, with 596 I do prefer TS7236 and Treasures.


----------



## hodgjy

In very general terms, and based on my WA3, the 6AS7G tubes tend to be smooth, lush and warm, and the 5998/7236 tubes tend to be a little more punchy, tight, and have a hint of "solid state" sound to them.  They still have some tube bloom, but the 6AS7G tubes have a lot of the tube warmth and bloom.  They are more a like than different, but they definitely are different.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Thanks for answering my question.  Have you tried 596 (adapter) with TS7236/ECC32?  Among the ECC32 variants, is there a difference?


 


 I have been doing some driver tube rolling in my WA5-LE with the 596. So far my favorite combinations are with the TSBGRP 6F8G and with the Mullard ECC32.
   
  I tried the Brimar CV1988 BG and also RCA 5692 RB but they were not as good with the 596 as with the EML 5U4G Mesh.


----------



## dark1evil2

any one here are driving HE-500 with woo 3? 
  i have woo3 and im looking to buy HE-500 but i fear it wont drive them to their full potential due to the low impedance!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> I am using duende and improvement is noticeable.


 


  Same here and I really like them.


----------



## hodgjy

I can say without a doubt that my WA3 does not pair well with low impedance cans.  They really need to be 250 ohm or higher to sound good. 
  
  Quote: 





dark1evil2 said:


> any one here are driving HE-500 with woo 3?
> i have woo3 and im looking to buy HE-500 but i fear it wont drive them to their full potential due to the low impedance!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> In very general terms, and based on my WA3, the 6AS7G tubes tend to be smooth, lush and warm, and the 5998/7236 tubes tend to be a little more punchy, tight, and have a hint of "solid state" sound to them.  They still have some tube bloom, but the 6AS7G tubes have a lot of the tube warmth and bloom.  They are more a like than different, but they definitely are different.


 


  There is also the Osram 6AS7G Black Base which sounds better than the GEC 6AS7G Brown Base.
  My tests were not carried out on a Woo.


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks for everybody's input.  I have TS7236/treasure/EML5u4g.  I will receive a 596 soon.  I am thinking of either TS BGRP or ECC. Again this is for getting a good tube sets for HD800/WA22 with mostly classical music (all kinds).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Thanks for everybody's input.  I have TS7236/treasure/EML5u4g.  I will receive a 596 soon.  I am thinking of either TS BGRP or ECC. Again this is for getting a good tube sets for HD800/WA22 with mostly classical music (all kinds).


 


  If mostly classical, I highly recommend the GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## hodgjy

The Tung-sol 6AS7G is fantastic for opera.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If mostly classical, I highly recommend the GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## cacatalysis

I read you like this combo for LCD-2, is this set good for classical music? 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, with 596 I do prefer TS7236 and Treasures.


----------



## indydieselnut

I took matters into my own hands.  I always found the black WA6SE hard to keep dust-free, so I designed a cover and had it manufactured at a local plastics place.  If anyone else is interested, they are happy to make more.  **Edit for clarification - I am NOT using this while the amp is running...just to keep things tidy when I'm not listening**


----------



## hodgjy

Looks pretty sweet.  How's the heat build up?
  
  Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I took matters into my own hands.  I always found the black WA6SE hard to keep dust-free, so I designed a cover and had it manufactured at a local plastics place.  If anyone else is interested, they are happy to make more.


----------



## IndieScent

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I took matters into my own hands.  I always found the black WA6SE hard to keep dust-free, so I designed a cover and had it manufactured at a local plastics place.  If anyone else is interested, they are happy to make more.


 


  dont think that a good idea due to all that heat


----------



## indydieselnut

Should have clarified...I am NOT using it while running the amp.  It is purely for keeping things tidy while I'm not listening.  Cheers.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





indydieselnut said:


> I took matters into my own hands.  I always found the black WA6SE hard to keep dust-free, so I designed a cover and had it manufactured at a local plastics place.  If anyone else is interested, they are happy to make more.  **Edit for clarification - I am NOT using this while the amp is running...just to keep things tidy when I'm not listening**


 

 Wow! Nice.
   
  Woo under Glass.
   
  It looks like that it should be on display at the Smithsonian Institution. A Classic!


----------



## Gabrielisc

So which sounds better/or what are the differences between the WA6SE/WA2 on the HD800s?
   
  Except for the ability to have a sophia tube on the WA6SE


----------



## shipsupt

I did more or less the same thing to keep things clean and to keep my tubes from getting damaged when the cleaners are here.  Like idn I don't keep it in place when operating.  I got a little custom with the gain cutout and around the HPOs so I can leave things plugged in. TapPlastics to the rescue!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I can say without a doubt that my WA3 does not pair well with low impedance cans.  They really need to be 250 ohm or higher to sound good.


 


  +1
   
  my WA2 with various tubes (including the TS 5998, Syl 7236, stock GE) cannot run any low impedance except grado (works at low volumes).
   
   
  the WA3 will not have enough power for anything with low impedance.
   
   
  OTL amps are for high impedance like beyer and senn


----------



## indydieselnut

Oh man, I should have talked to you first!  That's awesome!  
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I did more or less the same thing to keep things clean and to keep my tubes from getting damaged when the cleaners are here.  Like idn I don't keep it in place when operating.  I got a little custom with the gain cutout and around the HPOs so I can leave things plugged in. TapPlastics to the rescue!


----------



## Rawrbington

the only can i've read thats low that sounds good out of the 2 is the he 500
  and even then it was only in that big review comparing the 6se and the 2 with the hd800s


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> I read you like this combo for LCD-2, is this set good for classical music?


 

 Yes, this is what I have last couple weeks.  It is also really good with rock...


----------



## danska

Well I took a little break from much participating on here. Been really busy to start off this year, which is a good thing. I was also having a rattle problem with my left driver on my HD 650, and was pissed, figuring I would have to replace it. Thankfully, I read a thread on here explaining how to fix it! I posted these pics in the WA6/SE thread, but figured I'd put them over here also. Took a few pics of my rig today sitting in my latest purchase (Quadraspire Q4 Evo). I had to take a shelf off of it, since I have my Linn on a wall mount. Need to get my longer legs for the bottom piece, as my Jolida can't vent very well at the moment.
   
  I've been hesitant to do much reviewing of my gear because of the aforementioned rattle in my Sennheisers, and the fact that my most expensive piece of gear has been missing for the last 9 weeks. My Orotofon Jubilee came back today in the mail, so once I dial my Linn's suspension in, and get the cartridge aligned, I'll be back in heaven. Most of my reference recordings are on vinyl, and the back-up was pretty mediocre in comparison. In my system a low-out moving coil cartridge makes everything exponentially better.
   
  Also just picked up a Schiit Lyr locally, to try and dip into the world of Orthos. Its a good deal and couldn't really pass it up. If I like it a lot, probably will trade up the 6 for a SE or 22.


----------



## jc9394

Sweet looking rig, I'm hunting for a table too.


----------



## dark1evil2

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I can say without a doubt that my WA3 does not pair well with low impedance cans.  They really need to be 250 ohm or higher to sound good.


 

  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> my WA2 with various tubes (including the TS 5998, Syl 7236, stock GE) cannot run any low impedance except grado (works at low volumes).
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks for the replay's much appreciated. *checking his wallet
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sweet looking rig, I'm hunting for a table too.


 


  Yeah I saw that a ways back reading through the 400+ posts since I last visited. What is your budget again? Got a phono stage or card yet?


----------



## jc9394

Under $700 if possible, going to use the vintage Marantz until I can afford a better phono stage.  I'm thinking either Pro-ject Xpression or Music Hall MMF5 or Rega 5.


----------



## danska

From my experience I would skip the Pro-Ject (haven't heard the Xpression though) and go for the MM5 or a Rega P25. If you could score a P5 for that cheap, better yet. You might even be able to find a VPI HW 19 for near that amount, but its going to tip the scales a bit over $700.
   
  Nice thing is about a P25/P5 is that there are mods galore for it. Just modifying the tonearm (new weight, end stub) makes a huge difference in my experience. The RB600/700 is a great arm, and it alone new sells for $895. Being a RB700 owner I can tell you its a fantastic arm and works with a wide variety of carts, even heavier LOMC types.


----------



## jc9394

Only if this is $100 less, I don't mind no cartridge.
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/446586


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





danska said:


> From my experience I would skip the Pro-Ject (haven't heard the Xpression though) and go for the MM5 or a Rega P25. If you could score a P5 for that cheap, better yet. You might even be able to find a VPI HW 19 for near that amount, but its going to tip the scales a bit over $700.
> 
> Nice thing is about a P25/P5 is that there are mods galore for it. Just modifying the tonearm (new weight, end stub) makes a huge difference in my experience. The RB600/700 is a great arm, and it alone new sells for $895. Being a RB700 owner I can tell you its a fantastic arm and works with a wide variety of carts, even heavier LOMC types.


 

 Yeah. I'm really loving my P5. I can't believe I never went into the world of vinyl earlier. The only problem of course is the inherent costs that keep on piling up.. cartridge, phono stage, PSU upgrade, platter upgrade, digital pressure gauge, record cleaning machine, record cleaning fluids ... and of course those first print Blue Note records


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks again... this got me on the right track.  I ended up trying a pair of Made in Japan fat bottle Raytheon 6EW7's.  It took the edge off both the T1 and HD-800's.  I'm sticking with these and the Brimar for a while and enjoying some music...

  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> Hi, I have 3 pairs of tubes to use with my 6 SE:
> 
> 6EW7 RCA;
> 6DE7 Zenith;
> ...


----------



## thrak

with a view to extending the life of my 6SE (with it's current sound) i've been trying to find a backup pair or two of CBS 6DN7.  apparently these things are very hard to find!  at least for a t00b n00b like me without any hookups.  so i caved and asked Jack if i could procure a couple from him.  he tells me they are out of stock (guess they're hard to find for everyone...) and is currently recommending 6GL7 instead.  he tells me it sounds better than the 6DN7.  has anyone here used these?  i'd love to hear some impressions, comments, etc...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





thrak said:


> with a view to extending the life of my 6SE (with it's current sound) i've been trying to find a backup pair or two of CBS 6DN7.  apparently these things are very hard to find!  at least for a t00b n00b like me without any hookups.  so i caved and asked Jack if i could procure a couple from him.  he tells me they are out of stock (guess they're hard to find for everyone...) and is currently recommending 6GL7 instead.  he tells me it sounds better than the 6DN7.  has anyone here used these?  i'd love to hear some impressions, comments, etc...


 


  I'm in the same situation.
   
  I like a lot the sound of my RCA 6DN7 (General Electric made) but these are pretty hard to find.
  I think that the only way to understand if these 6GL7 are for me is to buy at least one pair and try by myself.
   
  About the 6GL7 sounding better than the 6DN7, this may be very taste-dependent:
   
  a lot of peple likes the warmer 6EW7 sound to the 6DN7 one; so. for those people, the 6EW7 may sound better.


----------



## shipsupt

6GL7 looks more like a 6EA7/6EM7 than a 6DN7.
   
  I'd still agree, the 6EA7/6EM7 is closer in sound to the 6DN7 than the 6EW7.

  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> I'm in the same situation.
> 
> I like a lot the sound of my RCA 6DN7 (General Electric made) but these are pretty hard to find.
> I think that the only way to understand if these 6GL7 are for me is to buy at least one pair and try by myself.
> ...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> 6GL7 looks more like a 6EA7/6EM7 than a 6DN7.
> 
> I'd still agree, the 6EA7/6EM7 is closer in sound to the 6DN7 than the 6EW7.


 
   
   
  The problem is that i did never try any 6EM7.
  But i think that the physical tube structure is about the same in this family tubes: 6EM7, 6DN7, 6GL7 and 6SN7 looks like the same tube, i think there are only some electrical or small fisical differences, but the sound should be really similar.
   
  Then i think the sound is also very brand-dependent.


----------



## shipsupt

Yeah, I was referring to specifications more than looks.  And yes, they are similar for sure.  Of course the 6SN7 is a dual triode with matching units (like a 6bl7), vs. the high-mu and low-mu triodes of the 6ea7, 6gl7, 6dn7 etc...  
   
  There is a pretty big difference in the amplification factors.  
   
  To my ears there are definitely similarities between the 6EM7/6EA7 and 6DN7, so it would stand to reason that the 6GL7 would be similar too.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *shipsupt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> To my ears there are definitely similarities between the 6EM7/6EA7 and 6DN7, so it would stand to reason that the 6GL7 would be similar too.


 


  Which 6DN7 did you listen to?


----------



## shipsupt

I've got a couple now.  Sylvania, RCA, GE, Lindal.  I've given more time to the Sylvanias then any other, but I don't find major differences between brands like sometimes you find in a particular tube.  That's not to say there is not subtle differences.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I've got a couple now.  Sylvania, RCA, GE, Lindal.  I've given more time to the Sylvanias then any other, but I don't find major differences between brands like sometimes you find in a particular tube.  That's not to say there is not subtle differences.


 


  Do you think that Lindal and GE sounds the same?
  I know that most of the 6DN7 were made by GE for other brands. Mine are branded RCA but are GE made.
  If you don't like the GE i may be interested in buying your pair. These are at the moment my favorite tubes with the 6 SE.
  I'm listening righy now with the the "Opeth - Heritage" with the 6SE and T1 and i really low the sound! It's so smooth and detailed!
  Now my amp has 85 hours on it and sounds simply GREAT!!!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thrak said:


> with a view to extending the life of my 6SE (with it's current sound) i've been trying to find a backup pair or two of CBS 6DN7.  apparently these things are very hard to find!  at least for a t00b n00b like me without any hookups.  so i caved and asked Jack if i could procure a couple from him.  he tells me they are out of stock (guess they're hard to find for everyone...) and is currently recommending 6GL7 instead.  he tells me it sounds better than the 6DN7.  has anyone here used these?  i'd love to hear some impressions, comments, etc...


 

 I looked at the datasheets for both tubes and they are pretty different.  I wouldn't expect the 6GL7 to sound like a 6DN7.  The only way to know is to try one.  At least they look like they are pretty cheap.
   
  People use the 6DN7 in DIY designs because people think the sound bears a resemblance to the famous 45 triode, which is why they aren't plentiful anymore.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Do you think that Lindal and GE sounds the same?
> I know that most of the 6DN7 were made by GE for other brands. Mine are branded RCA but are GE made.
> If you don't like the GE i may be interested in buying your pair. These are at the moment my favorite tubes with the 6 SE.
> I'm listening righy now with the the "Opeth - Heritage" with the 6SE and T1 and i really low the sound! It's so smooth and detailed!
> Now my amp has 85 hours on it and sounds simply GREAT!!!


 
   
   
  nice combo, the WA2 would take it to the next level 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  the WA6SE is definitely a more aggressive and crisper sounding amp with the T1, but still quite sibilant.
   
  the WA2 makes it smoother and thicker,  the sibilance is controlled but still present. however, its a much more musical and warmer presentation. 
   
  both are pretty good though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

one of my monitors just died on me....
   
  either its faulty or my displayport to dvi converter fried it somehow


----------



## shipsupt

I am the last one who should offer computer technical support 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I figured I'd throw it out there... did you try all the normal restart of the monitor, reboot of your computer... the only reason I ask the silly question is that recently I was hanging with another head-fi'er who was having issues with his large dual monitor set up.  One would go blank occasionally and he said he was having "driver" issues (I think that's what he said).  Anyway, a little restarting and he was able to get going again... but very annoying while we were trying to listen from that machine.
   
  Sorry if it's totally obvious...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks for the tip, but i already unplugged it, and even without any display input plugged into it, as the screen turns on (and displays the company logo and whatnot), it already flashes and goes all crazy on me.
   
  so its definitely the monitor.
   
  and i have 3 of them, switched the power supplies and stuff as well. im 100% sure the monitor is faulty.
   
   
  now whether the monitor failed (looks like its failed for others as well), or whether my displayport/dvi adapter is to blame, that i do not know.


----------



## grokit

My 30" Cinema Display just went out, it happened during one of our frequent power surges/spikes even though I have an inline protector and a whole-house protector that lights up as "protected".  
   
  I sure hope it's the (external) power supply. The monitor is completely dead and non-responsive. Luckily I have a spare DVI widescreen monitor but it's only 19"


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nice combo, the WA2 would take it to the next level
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I know that a lot of people says that the WA2 pairs better, but i like exactly how the SE sounds with the T1.
  I don't find the T1 sibilant, it's simply transparent. Or, better to say, it can be slightly bright when the recording is so. Unfortunately, a lot of modern recordings are made with some kind of loudness effect embedded into. A transparent headphone will simply highlight this.
   
  For example, the HD650 is almost never sibilant, but to me sounds fake, too dark when you listen to them unbalanced (when balanced the things are much better).
  To my ears, despite it's not perfect, the T1 is most complete/natural sounding headphone i tried. Al least for my way to listen to the music.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nice combo, the WA2 would take it to the next level
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Depends on what you call musical.
  The Woo6se and T1's make a very musical exciting combination.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Depends on what you call musical.
> The Woo6se and T1's make a very musical exciting combination.


 
   
  not on all songs. it just didn't sound right sometimes.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> not on all songs. it just didn't sound right sometimes.


 


  Not all songs should or do sound exciting.
  My comment was a generalization of the W6se/T1's sound. In what ways does it not sound right and do you have any examples, especially in the rock/metal catagory.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I looked at the datasheets for both tubes and they are pretty different.  I wouldn't expect the 6GL7 to sound like a 6DN7.  The only way to know is to try one.  At least they look like they are pretty cheap.
> 
> People use the 6DN7 in DIY designs because people think the sound bears a resemblance to the famous 45 triode, which is why they aren't plentiful anymore.


 


  well, we will find out.  i broke down and ordered a pair last night.  at $30 for a matched pair its reasonable enough to try out.  stay tuned...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> not on all songs. it just didn't sound right sometimes.


 


  Yes, i agree, not on all songs, but it depends more on music recording quality, not so much on the amp/headphone/source.
   
  I have some recordings where the 6 SE/T1 combo sounds even dark! On most of the music the sound is exciting, with the right smoothness and PRAT.
  On some album, expecially pop music, the sound can be poor. For example, "Back to Black" by Emy Winhouse is horribly recorded and sounds bad, no matter what headphone i use.
  I like the songs, but the recording is really terrible!
   
  One thing i enjoing so much with the 6 SE/T1 combo is how acoustic guitars are rendered, there is something magic if you listen to some albums like Opeth - Heritage i was listening yesterday!
  Also male vocals are velvety.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





thrak said:


> well, we will find out.  i broke down and ordered a pair last night.  at $30 for a matched pair its reasonable enough to try out.  stay tuned...


 


  I'll also try these tubes.
   
  I've seen in your signature that you have a Wyred 4 Sound DAC. How do you think it matches with the 6 SE / T1 combo?
   
  It seems that this DAC has a warm/smooth tone, but not everybody agree with this.
  Some say that the new Calyx DAC or Burson DAC are warmer.
   
  I'm searching for a new DAC to replace my trusted V-DAC, but later in time, i have not the budget at the time.
   
  So i'm reading tons of reviews about these models to kill the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  What's your opinion about the Wyred?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it can sound cold flat and lifeless at times, perhaps too sharp at times too


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it can sound cold flat and lifeless at times, perhaps too sharp at times too


 


  I can't fathom how my Woo6se/T1's could possibly sound flat and lifeless. Too sharp, possibly with a poor recording I suppose but I haven't found one yet to sound too sharp. Although maybe I like sharp!


----------



## Gwarmi

I have a momentously stupid question to ask, but this actually happened today.
   
   Brand new unboxed WA22 and LCD3 stock balanced (XLR 4-pin) cable ~ insert cable into
   the WA22's 4 pin 'Stereo' Neutrik jack and you hear a 'click' as it engages.
   
   How the hell are you supposed to disengage it!? There's no release on the LCD3 factory
   ended plug?


----------



## grokit

It sounds like it's pretty tight, did you try just pulling it out


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It sounds like it's pretty tight, did you try just pulling it out


 


   Certainly tried giving it a firm pull but as you can imagine ~ it's a delicate neutrik plug that is bonded
   to the front plate ~ did not want to go to town on such an expensive amplifier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   What can you say, surely someone out there has a solution, it's definitely firmly clicked in.
   
   Only later did I notice that the Audeze plug end (4-pin) has the outline of a release, but no
   actual release.


----------



## Silent One

Is it possible to post a pix?


----------



## Gabrielisc

Lol stop experimenting with a2as new stock  im jealous... hope someone can give you a hand.


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Is it possible to post a pix?


 


   I should be able to do that tomorrow ~ just looks like the LCD3 4-pin end in the Neutrik WA22 end though 
   
   Hopefully someone with a balanced LCD2 or LCD3 WA22 combo has some insight


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> I should be able to do that tomorrow ~ just looks like the LCD3 4-pin end in the Neutrik WA22 end though
> 
> Hopefully someone with a balanced LCD2 or LCD3 WA22 combo has some insight


 


  I'd head over to the LCD-3 thread - a quick inquiry and your hand will be out of the cookie jar in no time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd head over to the LCD-3 thread - a quick inquiry and your hand will be out of the cookie jar in no time.


 


  +1


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> I should be able to do that tomorrow ~ just looks like the LCD3 4-pin end in the Neutrik WA22 end though
> 
> Hopefully someone with a balanced LCD2 or LCD3 WA22 combo has some insight


 

 Send the LCD-3 over and I will take care of that for you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd head over to the LCD-3 thread - a quick inquiry and your hand will be out of the cookie jar in no time.


 

 Don't, you will be sorry.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, I started to get the urge to tube roll my WA3.  I ordered a GE 6AS7GA and a Sylvania 5998A.  I know the Sylvania 5998A is nothing like the Tung-Sol, but I still wanted to hear what it was all about.


----------



## pyramid6

What's the best non-7236 power tube for the WA22?  I know the 7236 is good, but I don't want make my amp any louder. 
   
  Also, is it possible for the power tube to be microphonic?  It's the only tube I haven't replaced yet.  I get a pinging sound.  I'm sure it one of the tubes.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> What's the best non-7236 power tube for the WA22?  I know the 7236 is good, but I don't want make my amp any louder.
> 
> Also, is it possible for the power tube to be microphonic?  It's the only tube I haven't replaced yet.  I get a pinging sound.  I'm sure it one of the tubes.


 
  Non-7236 would include 5998, 6AS7G, 6520 to mention a few. The 5998 is a higher power tube like 7236.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Non-7236 would include 5998, 6AS7G, 6520 to mention a few. The 5998 is a higher power tube like 7236.


 

 Yes, but are any tubes considered really good like the TS 7236 and Sylvania 7236 that aren't going to make the amp louder?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Also, is it possible for the power tube to be microphonic?  It's the only tube I haven't replaced yet.  I get a pinging sound.  I'm sure it one of the tubes.


 


  It's not only possible, it is likely.  6AS7 tubes are pretty notorious for being noisy actually.  I've tossed some out already because they were too prone to vibration induced fits of noise.
   
  IMO the best 6AS7 tube that doesn't cost a fortune is the Chatham 6AS7G made by Tung-Sol.  Unfortunately they are hard to find now, as is the actual Tung Sol version which is almost as good.  The Chatams are a clear and substantial improvement over the RCA 6AS7 in nearly every way to my ears.
   
  edit: also since it wasn't specifically pointed out, the 5998 is even higher gain than a 7236 so that wouldn't help you with your gain concerns.  It is a great sounding tube though.


----------



## hodgjy

I agree with 100% of what you wrote.  The RCA 6AS7G is a great sounding tube, but unfortunately EVERY ONE I tried had noise issues.  They all seem to have some low level background whine in one channel.  And which channel whines is totally random between tubes.  Damn shame, it's such a beautiful sounding tube, too.  I must have tried at least ten before giving up on them.
   
  My Tung-Sol 6AS7G is lovely with very low noise.  I was lucky enough to score one from Skylab before those tubes went extinct.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's not only possible, it is likely.  6AS7 tubes are pretty notorious for being noisy actually.  I've tossed some out already because they were too prone to vibration induced fits of noise.
> 
> IMO the best 6AS7 tube that doesn't cost a fortune is the Chatham 6AS7G made by Tung-Sol.  Unfortunately they are hard to find now, as is the actual Tung Sol version which is almost as good.  The Chatams are a clear and substantial improvement over the RCA 6AS7 in nearly every way to my ears.
> 
> edit: also since it wasn't specifically pointed out, the 5998 is even higher gain than a 7236 so that wouldn't help you with your gain concerns.  It is a great sounding tube though.


----------



## john57

I also use the 6080 tubes like the Philips  and the Tung-Sol so far they have never ping on me. I had a pair of RCA 6AS7 that did not ping after throwing out three sets of RCA 6AS7 that were pinging. I still do not like the remaing RCA 6AS7 tubes.


----------



## Gwarmi

The LCD3 factory 4pin cable is out of the WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This is the simplest fix for anyone who accidently plugs their Audeze XLR 4pin
  cable into the WA22 - recommendation? Don't do it in the first place!!
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/575751/new-audeze-lcd3/3090#post_8049227


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's not only possible, it is likely.  6AS7 tubes are pretty notorious for being noisy actually.  I've tossed some out already because they were too prone to vibration induced fits of noise.
> 
> IMO the best 6AS7 tube that doesn't cost a fortune is the Chatham 6AS7G made by Tung-Sol.  Unfortunately they are hard to find now, as is the actual Tung Sol version which is almost as good.  The Chatams are a clear and substantial improvement over the RCA 6AS7 in nearly every way to my ears.
> 
> edit: also since it wasn't specifically pointed out, the 5998 is even higher gain than a 7236 so that wouldn't help you with your gain concerns.  It is a great sounding tube though.


 


   
  If I'm not mistaken, the TS 6520 is a 6as7 and is available, well, sort of. I have a pair, they are nice and quiet, but don'have the power of a 7236, which I prefer.


----------



## Silent One

Whew! That turned out to be quite the cookie jar, Gwarmi! Glad to hear you're free now to try more samples...


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





archigius said:


> I've seen in your signature that you have a Wyred 4 Sound DAC. How do you think it matches with the 6 SE / T1 combo?
> 
> It seems that this DAC has a warm/smooth tone, but not everybody agree with this.
> Some say that the new Calyx DAC or Burson DAC are warmer.
> ...


 

 my DAC2 is actually not fully burned-in yet so the final verdict is not in yet.  that said, i think it is just outstanding.  i love it.  i hear/read that the WA2 is a better match for the T1 but not having heard it yet its hard for me to say exactly how good the 6SE/T1 pairing is.  i can only tell you that i am enjoying it greatly.  in general it is a warm-ish sound and very smooth.  i don't want to use the term 'warm' because it tends to have connotations of darkness, rolled-off highs, etc.  the highs are very smooth, controlled and detailed without getting unpleasant or fatiguing.  i can literally listen to the DAC2/6SE/T1 combo for hours on end and just wallow in the music with no concern about the gear.  the T1s well documented bump in the 7khz to 10khz is definitely there but this combo manages to tone that down to where it is only noticeable with very bright recordings. and even then it is never harsh or jarring the way it can be with brighter combos. 
   
  as to the DAC itself, my other DAC is the Schiit Bifrost which is decisively in the bright camp, imo.  relative to it, yes, the DAC2 is most definitely 'warm'.  looking at it objectively over time, though, its is probably more accurate to say that it is on the warm side of neutral.  in general i can't hear the DAC.  it is super transparent with no obvious coloration which is optimal for me as i prefer the amp and hp to provide color.
   
  i have a Violectric V200 coming in the next few days which i plan on using as my main SS amp along the 6SE.  from what i've read, it seems to me that the DAC2/V200 combo will provide a very accurate, very neutral audio chain.  we will see tomorrow when it gets here


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Whew! That turned out to be quite the cookie jar, Gwarmi! Glad to hear you're free more more samples...


 


  Tell me about it, a real chocolate double chip pandora's box!
   
   Now what remains to be seen is - what is it about the LCD3 factory cable that is so unique that causes it to lock
   and become immovable. Still quite shocked as there are so many WA22 owners about and this is the first issue
   I've come across.
   
   Should be able to test with a factory balanced Ultrasone Pro 2900 - I'll be checking out the plugs for grooves
   before making a date with the operation table again!


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i have a Violectric V200 coming in the next few days which i plan on using as my main SS amp along the 6SE.  from what i've read, it seems to me that the DAC2/V200 combo will provide a very accurate, very neutral audio chain.  we will see tomorrow when it gets here


 
   
   
  Very interesting.
  It seems that tha majority of the reviews claim that the Wyred is slightly warm or on the warm side of neutral, so it seems that you agree.
   
  What tubes are you currently using on the SE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Tell me about it, a real chocolate double chip pandora's box!
> 
> Now what remains to be seen is - what is it about the LCD3 factory cable that is so unique that causes it to lock
> and become immovable. Still quite shocked as there are so many WA22 owners about and this is the first issue
> ...


 

 Not sure about LCD-3 owners with WA22's. But, it seems most/many LCD owners use aftermarket cables or at least aftermarket plugs. And often make this switch early. So, I'm not surprised we haven't heard more about this.


----------



## hodgjy

All this talk of 6AS7 tubes made me roll in my Tung-Sol 6AS7G tonight.  I usually use the 5998.  I had forgotten how romantic, warm, and full bodied it is compared to the 5998.  The 5998 is great, and probably still my favorite, but it's not as full bodied.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> All this talk of 6AS7 tubes made me roll in my Tung-Sol 6AS7G tonight.  I usually use the 5998.  I had forgotten how romantic, warm, and full bodied it is compared to the 5998.  The 5998 is great, and probably still my favorite, but it's not as full bodied.


 


  Another member on a roll... with good results! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Do you enjoy vinyl with your '3' or tracks ripped from vinyl?


----------



## hodgjy

Sadly, I do not have anything worthy enough to spin vinyl.  I do, however, have a decent cd deck that sounds pretty fluid and very analog-like.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Another member on a roll... with good results!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Yes, but are any tubes considered really good like the TS 7236 and Sylvania 7236 that aren't going to make the amp louder?


 

 Beside TS7236 ans TS5998, I love the GEC 6AS7G or even the GEC 6080 are quite good.  The last conversion with Rob (skylab), we both agree that only GEC 6080 are worth it.
   


  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's not only possible, it is likely.  6AS7 tubes are pretty notorious for being noisy actually.  I've tossed some out already because they were too prone to vibration induced fits of noise.
> 
> IMO the best 6AS7 tube that doesn't cost a fortune is the Chatham 6AS7G made by Tung-Sol.  Unfortunately they are hard to find now, as is the actual Tung Sol version which is almost as good.  The Chatams are a clear and substantial improvement over the RCA 6AS7 in nearly every way to my ears.
> 
> edit: also since it wasn't specifically pointed out, the 5998 is even higher gain than a 7236 so that wouldn't help you with your gain concerns.  It is a great sounding tube though.


 

 Both of my GEC 6AS7G are not noisy at all.
   


  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Non-7236 would include 5998, 6AS7G, 6520 to mention a few. The 5998 is a higher power tube like 7236.


 
   
  From that list, I prefer the TS7236 the best.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> All this talk of 6AS7 tubes made me roll in my Tung-Sol 6AS7G tonight.  I usually use the 5998.  *I had forgotten how romantic, warm,* and full bodied it is compared to the 5998.  The 5998 is great, and probably still my favorite, but it's not as full bodied.


 

 X2, that is one of the reason I love it so much with HD800.
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Another member on a roll... with good results!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I almost get a table from Agon, except a little too slow to pay while I was in a 3 hours meeting.  It just don't look right I use my iPhone to pay via paypal during a meeting.  (humm, can you hold that thought? I need to pay for a turntable on my iPhone).


----------



## hodgjy

I had also forgotten how microphonic my TS 6AS7G is during the first hour or so of warming up.  The tube literally sounds like a deep fryer, which is heard in the headphones.  It settles down, but dang!


----------



## hodgjy

I'm using my HD600s right now.  Lovely combination. 
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, that is one of the reason I love it so much with HD800.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm using my HD600s right now.  Lovely combination.


 


  I got to power on my WA22 now to warm it up for tonight's session.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, that is one of the reason I love it so much with HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> I almost get a table from Agon, except a little too slow to pay while I was in a 3 hours meeting.  It just don't look right I use my iPhone to pay via paypal during a meeting.  (humm, can you hold that thought? I need to pay for a turntable on my iPhone).


 


  You certainly played it right. And another table worth your consideration is certain to come. On my TS-BGRP's, they're finally starting to show me something after some odd 127 hours. I'd still like to see a few more hours turn on the ODO. I was strongly considering the EML 5U4G's return - the Tung-Sol's would love this!
   
  However, now I'm considering an Alix board for a Linux server instead...


----------



## hodgjy

Great idea.
   
  Also, the TS 6AS7G is more holographic than the 5998.  I can't believe I ignored this tube for so long!
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I got to power on my WA22 now to warm it up for tonight's session.


----------



## shipsupt

Check out where 50 cent gets his headphone stands from!!  
   
  Watch the video, and look closely...
   
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2012-sms-50-cent#comment-481980


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd head over to the LCD-3 thread - a quick inquiry and your hand will be out of the cookie jar in no time.


 

 Just responded on the LCD-3 thread.
   
  Quick synopsis: Absolutely ZERO issues with my stock LCD-3 4-pin cable and my WA22. Though I mostly use my Moon Audio SD (also balanced 4pin) cable. Both just slightly "click" when I plug them in and they just pull out with no issue (or notice on my part).


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Check out where 50 cent gets his headphone stands from!!
> 
> Watch the video, and look closely...
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2012-sms-50-cent#comment-481980


 


  thats why Jack was sold out of those last month!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats why Jack was sold out of those last month!


 


  wow... those headphones don't deserve to be on those stands...


----------



## jerico

The tube rolling gremlins have invaded again!

Tonight with my 22, I swapped out my Sylvania 7236 + Princess, for my old standby pairing of Chatham 2399 + TungSol 5U4G (the coke bottle one). Still using KenRad VT231 as well (and LCD2r1).

Now I member why I liked the 2399 so much - but it's temperamental, it needs good tube pairings to get it to shine. This combo is very satisfying - full and bloomy and musical.

Even better, I found another TS 5U4G for $30 - yeehaw.

Ok, that's it for tube rolling for now - more music time...!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow... those headphones don't deserve to be on those stands...


 


  yeah no kidding.
  i could use a pair myself.
  ill eventually just bite the bullet and drop the 80 bucks on the T stand from woo.
   
  anybody have a good source for 7236 or 6AS7.
  and please no 6AS7s that are noisey.
  ive had one of the rcas before.  do not want


----------



## hodgjy

I've been rolling tonight!  And next week when some new tubes arrive, I'll be rolling some more.
  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> The tube rolling gremlins have invaded again!


----------



## hodgjy

I bought from this guy before.  Good service.  Stand up guy.
   
  http://www.electrontube.com/servlet/the-63/7236-Sylvania/Detail
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody have a good source for 7236


----------



## Rawrbington

bookmarked.
  thanks Hodjy!
   
   
  how does the 7236 compare to the stock 6080 in your 3?
  it seems that the tubes all have a similar affect to both our amps.
  and i only ever use the 5998 6080 and 6as7(g?) rca out of my 3.
  the rca was nice but the hum drove me insane.


----------



## jerico

hodgjy said:


> I've been rolling tonight!  And next week when some new tubes arrive, I'll be rolling some more.




It's an affliction, I know! We need to lean on each other here to get through it! 

RE: Darcell, I've purchased several tubes from him/them as well, no problems.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> yeah no kidding.
> i could use a pair myself.
> ill eventually just bite the bullet and drop the 80 bucks on the T stand from woo.
> 
> ...


 

 wish i did. 
   
  bought the 7236 from golfnutz a couple weeks back, but hes sold out of 7236, might have 6as7 in stock.
   
   
  currently loving what i hear with my dt 990s and the WA2. it just seems to love beyers for some reason. way better synergy than i had with my WA6SE, the sound is warmer and fuller sounding.  listening to Inna's Club Rocker album with my dt 990s = awesomeness


----------



## Rawrbington

oh yeah the 990s are great.
  those plus the wa3 were my first real taste of excellence.
   
  and its been a downward spiral toward bankruptcy since


----------



## hodgjy

Sylvania 7236 has great bass extension, but can sound a little sterile when paired with the wrong preamp tubes.  In general, the Sylvania 7236 is kinda solid state sounding, but a great tube nonetheless.  Good PRAT.  Good clarity.  The 6080 is kinda veiled, but very warm.  Vocals are good, but PRAT is a little slow and sloppy.  OK tube, but better ones are out there.
   
  My RCA 6AS7G tubes have all had noise issues.  A whine is always in the background.  Shame, great sound otherwise, but as you said, the noise is intolerable.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> bookmarked.
> thanks Hodjy!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've been rolling tonight!  And next week when some new tubes arrive, I'll be rolling some more.


 


   
  I too roll tonight, been a long while since I roll.  Rolled in GEC6AS7G round base, Treasures, and 596 for tonight's session with HD800.  I may replace the Treasures with Brimar.


----------



## hodgjy

It is an affliction.
   
  The main guy at Darcell is Alex Williams.  Super nice guy and never sent me a tube short of perfect.  His stock is bigger than his web page suggests, so email him if you want a specific tube.
  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> It's an affliction, I know! We need to lean on each other here to get through it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You certainly played it right. And another table worth your consideration is certain to come. On my TS-BGRP's, they're finally starting to show me something after some odd 127 hours. I'd still like to see a few more hours turn on the ODO. I was strongly considering the EML 5U4G's return - the Tung-Sol's would love this!
> 
> However, now I'm considering an Alix board for a Linux server instead...


 


   
  How's the Linux server serving music?  I will most likely work on a Vortexbox this month on a crappy old hardware or maybe spin up a virtual for it.  
   
  Got myself a late Christmas gift last week, a 13" Air, it is so fast and light.  Prefect for my traveling...


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It is an affliction.
> 
> The main guy at Darcell is Alex Williams.  Super nice guy and never sent me a tube short of perfect.  His stock is bigger than his web page suggests, so email him if you want a specific tube.


 

 i love tube dudes like that!
  get them on the phone and ask the right questions and they'll probably give you more info than your brain can handle as well.  but interesting as hell nonetheless.
  i called a guy a while back asking for 5998s and he talks to me for nearly an hour but i got a matched pair for 50 bucks out of the deal.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Very interesting.
> It seems that tha majority of the reviews claim that the Wyred is slightly warm or on the warm side of neutral, so it seems that you agree.
> 
> What tubes are you currently using on the SE?


 

 currently using the sophia princess 274B and 6DN7's.  although since the 6DN7s appear to be in short supply so i have some 6GL7's coming from Jack.  he tells me it's 'better' than the DN.  i should be able to compare them next week sometime.


----------



## danska

Does anyone know if the Woo adapters work with the older style WA6? I've been meaning to email and ask, but I'll try here first.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How's the Linux server serving music?  I will most likely work on a Vortexbox this month on a crappy old hardware or maybe spin up a virtual for it.
> 
> Got myself a late Christmas gift last week, a 13" Air, it is so fast and light.  Prefect for my traveling...


 


  How's the Linux server serving music as in _how's it coming along (progress)_? Or do you mean technically, _how is the signal being routed from the box? _With the former, great! With the latter, using a server/client setup - currently using both on the notebook pc. But the next one will see me put the server on both the pc & mac; run clients on all three computers plus my iTouch & iPhone. I may Network my HDD. But the MPD/GMPC setup would also allow me to store my playlist on the network as well.
   
  I need to go to the Goodwill tomorrow and Monday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Congrats on the light & speedy client!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one, just noticed u have over 2k posts now! OMG!!!!


----------



## hodgjy

Me too.  I like going to local, family-owned hardware stores.  I seek out the oldest dude in the place and talk to him about my little projects.  Some of the best advice one can ever receiver!
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i love tube dudes like that!
> get them on the phone and ask the right questions and they'll probably give you more info than your brain can handle as well.  but interesting as hell nonetheless.
> i called a guy a while back asking for 5998s and he talks to me for nearly an hour but i got a matched pair for 50 bucks out of the deal.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Me too.  I like going to local, family-owned hardware stores.  I seek out the oldest dude in the place and talk to him about my little projects.  Some of the best advice one can ever receiver!


 

  
  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> silent one, just noticed u have over 2k posts now! OMG!!!!


 








  Are you and 'shipsupt' calling me anything but silent?! I hadn't noticed... only pay attention to 8k posts and up. Take grokit, for example, he went from zero to sixty in under (?) seconds!


----------



## randomstranger

I've been a WA2 owner for nearly a week and I feel that I made a good decision.  It's nice to have such an expansive soundstage and to actually be able to hear instrument separation.  The WA2 definitely brings out the bass quality that poor amplification would not allow me hear though the impact isn't there.  I can't go too much into detail about how well the WA2 pairs with my HD 800s due to my only High End Audio experience being my past hm-801.  They are in different leagues in terms of use and sound quality obviously.  Either way I'm thoroughly enjoying my set up with my 260gb/24,000song strong library of 24/96 Flac, 16/44 Flac and 320 MP3.  It's a pretty amazing feeling to actually be able to pick up micro details such as Kirk Hammett sliding his hands up the neck of the guitar on 24/96 Flac For Whom the Bell Tolls.


----------



## hodgjy

Welcome to the Woo crowd!  We have the best taste in amps and music, and we're clearly smarter, better looking, more charming, can run faster and jump higher, and are just cooler than all others in the universe.
  
  Quote: 





randomstranger said:


> I've been a WA2 owner for nearly a week and I feel that I made a good decision.  It's nice to have such an expansive soundstage and to actually be able to hear instrument separation.  The WA2 definitely brings out the bass quality that poor amplification would not allow me hear though the impact isn't there.  I can't go too much into detail about how well the WA2 pairs with my HD 800s due to my only High End Audio experience being my past hm-801.  They are in different leagues in terms of use and sound quality obviously.  Either way I'm thoroughly enjoying my set up with my 260gb/24,000song strong library of 24/96 Flac, 16/44 Flac and 320 MP3.  It's a pretty amazing feeling to actually be able to pick up micro details such as Kirk Hammett sliding his hands up the neck of the guitar on 24/96 Flac For Whom the Bell Tolls.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Welcome to the Woo crowd!  We have the best taste in amps and music, and we're clearly smarter, better looking, more charming, can run faster and jump higher, and are just cooler than all others in the universe.


 

 +1


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Beside TS7236 ans TS5998, I love the GEC 6AS7G or even the GEC 6080 are quite good.  The last conversion with Rob (skylab), we both agree that only GEC 6080 are worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  See, I think you're just trying to get me to buy the GEC 6080.


----------



## hodgjy

The only 6AS7 tubes that have been consistently noisy for me are the RCAs.  I did get some noisy and extremely microphonic 5998s from a questionable seller, but I guess that shouldn't be unexpected because the 5998s have been hunted to extinction, causing some sellers to pass off tubes they probably shouldn't have.
   
  Heck, even my Russian 6AS7 equivalents are low noise despite their overall veil to the sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Beside TS7236 ans TS5998, I love the GEC 6AS7G or even the GEC 6080 are quite good.  The last conversion with Rob (skylab), we both agree that only GEC 6080 are worth it.


 


   
  I have a beautiful pair of metal base JAN Chatham 6080Ws from the 50's that were as NOS as you can possibly find them, but I prefer any 6AS7 (except maybe a Russian one) to them for sound sadly.
   
  I paid almost nothing for them too, it was worth it just to be able to visually look at them.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I agree with 100% of what you wrote.  The RCA 6AS7G is a great sounding tube, but unfortunately EVERY ONE I tried had noise issues.  They all seem to have some low level background whine in one channel.  And which channel whines is totally random between tubes.  Damn shame, it's such a beautiful sounding tube, too.  I must have tried at least ten before giving up on them.
> 
> My Tung-Sol 6AS7G is lovely with very low noise.  I was lucky enough to score one from Skylab before those tubes went extinct.


 


   
  Just a hunch but is your amp close to computer monitors?  I found out the source of the whining noise in my system is coming from some kind of interference given off by my LCD monitors believe it or not.  When they are off everything is dead silent.  Interestingly enough the 5998 seems to be even more susceptible to it, which is irritating because they are otherwise very quiet tubes.  I can't call this type of issue the tube's fault though, it is picking up environmental interference after all, not related to microphonics.  Interference that probably didn't exist back in the day too.
   
  I had a devil of a time finding 6AS7 that are not microphonic AND do not have some kind of low level hum.  The Chathams are pretty good, if you tap the desk they ping a bit but nothing bad.  I have some RCA made Sylvania 6AS7 that are totally quiet in both regards, though it certainly took buying enough RCA tubes before finding them.


----------



## shipsupt

Perhaps time to add "not so" to your ID? 






silent one said:


> Are you and 'shipsupt' calling me anything but silent?! I hadn't noticed... only pay attention to 8k posts and up. Take grokit, for example, he went from zero to sixty in under (?) seconds!


----------



## Silent One

Why, most of the time I'm so silent, _even my subconscious is suspicious_. It still speaks to my reserve, though...


----------



## kchew

I've not had a noisy 6AS7, but then my only experience with them are the GECs. The GE and GEC 6080s I have are quiet as well. But the 5998s are another matter... I bought 4 pairs from different people early last year, and now half of them have some static in the background. The newest Tung Sol 7236 I bought last November has a tube that hums slightly sometimes.
   
  I'm thankful I'm much luckier with driver tubes. I just received a quad of Fivre 6SN7GT brown bases, and they stomp over the Sylvania Bad Boys in terms of musicality. Sure, perhaps the Bad Boys might not pair very well with the Tung Sol 7236, but the Fivre has that midrange magic that is really hard to beat.
   
  Enough yaddering from me, time for pics!


----------



## leng jai

Might as well post this year as well:
   

   
  Just joined the ranks


----------



## Draygonn

leng jai said:


> Might as well post this year as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd seen you post many times how you loved your T1s. I secretly was hoping you would pick up the WA2 to drive it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> Might as well post this year as well:
> 
> 
> 
> Just joined the ranks


 


  With a perfectly slotted Silver WA2, Congrats on your entry!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I've not had a noisy 6AS7, but then my only experience with them are the GECs. The GE and GEC 6080s I have are quiet as well. But the 5998s are another matter... I bought 4 pairs from different people early last year, and now half of them have some static in the background. The newest Tung Sol 7236 I bought last November has a tube that hums slightly sometimes.
> 
> I'm thankful I'm much luckier with driver tubes. I just received a quad of Fivre 6SN7GT brown bases, and they stomp over the Sylvania Bad Boys in terms of musicality. Sure, perhaps the Bad Boys might not pair very well with the Tung Sol 7236, but the Fivre has that midrange magic that is really hard to beat.
> 
> Enough yaddering from me, time for pics!


 


  I'll have to put the Fivre's down on my list of tubes to listen to. Nice iso-tweaks, by the way...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





thrak said:


> currently using the sophia princess 274B and 6DN7's.  although since the 6DN7s appear to be in short supply so i have some 6GL7's coming from Jack.  he tells me it's 'better' than the DN.  i should be able to compare them next week sometime.


 


  Me too, decided to try the 6GL7 from Jack. Hope these are really better, but for my it's hard to imagine something better than my RCA/GE 6DN7.
  It could be better if the tubes have the same super-detail but are slightly smoother on top.
   
  Unfortunately the tubes will take some to arrive to my country and pass the customs, i think not before 15 days.
  If you'll have these before me, i'll be glad to listen to your impressions.


----------



## hodgjy

I wish that was the case, but my amp is pretty free and clear from electrical devices.  The RCAs just make noise.  The others play more nicely.  Thanks for the ideas, though,
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just a hunch but is your amp close to computer monitors?  I found out the source of the whining noise in my system is coming from some kind of interference given off by my LCD monitors believe it or not.  When they are off everything is dead silent.  Interestingly enough the 5998 seems to be even more susceptible to it, which is irritating because they are otherwise very quiet tubes.  I can't call this type of issue the tube's fault though, it is picking up environmental interference after all, not related to microphonics.  Interference that probably didn't exist back in the day too.
> 
> I had a devil of a time finding 6AS7 that are not microphonic AND do not have some kind of low level hum.  The Chathams are pretty good, if you tap the desk they ping a bit but nothing bad.  I have some RCA made Sylvania 6AS7 that are totally quiet in both regards, though it certainly took buying enough RCA tubes before finding them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> I'll also try these tubes.
> 
> I've seen in your signature that you have a Wyred 4 Sound DAC. How do you think it matches with the 6 SE / T1 combo?
> 
> ...


 

 My own opinion, is that it is not for the timid. Or the impatient. I speak as a current owner of a W4S DAC-1 upgraded with digital bridge & super caps. The sound of these DACs? Fantastique! Playback returns wonderful detail, voicing, spacing, layering, tone, height, width and depth. I find it neither too musical or analytical - it is at once both of these things, down the middle, if you would. With its own color missing, you're able to appreciate your front-end or back-end components.
   
  Revisiting remarks made in the beginning of my reply, I say this because when new, these DACs will drag you ALL over the street. Some days will be better than others (understatement). This period tends to be extremely rough on those who do not believe in the concepts of "Burn-in; Play-in." So, how long? you ask. In most cases, users should brace for a minimum of 300 hrs on the clock. In my experience, it took roughly 325-350. And another 200 after parts upgrade two months later. _And it was worth the wait!  _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I wish that was the case, but my amp is pretty free and clear from electrical devices.  The RCAs just make noise.  The others play more nicely.  Thanks for the ideas, though,


 

 Broadcasting--
   
  By chance, does the room have a lot of metal inside?


----------



## hodgjy

I don't think any more than would be expected.  Drywall, wood shelves, carpeting, couch, etc.  Actually, not much metal at all.  Even the shelf my rig is on is made of wood.
   
  The noise in my RCA tubes is very tube dependent, as far as which channel has the noise and the pitch of it.  Based on the idea that my other tubes work fine, the RCAs don't, the RCAs have a reputation of being noisy, and I bought my RCAs from "that" questionable seller south of me, I gave up trouble shooting and just said the tubes are what they are.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Broadcasting--
> 
> By chance, does the room have a lot of metal inside?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My own opinion, is that it is not for the timid. Or the impatient. I speak as a current owner of a W4S DAC-1 upgraded with digital bridge & super caps. The sound of these DACs? Fantastique! Playback returns wonderful detail, voicing, spacing, layering, tone, height, width and depth. I find it neither too musical or analytical - it is at once both of these things, down the middle, if you would. With its own color missing, you're able to appreciate your front-end or back-end components.
> 
> Revisiting remarks made in the beginning of my reply, I say this because when new, these DACs will drag you ALL over the street. Some days will be better than others (understatement). This period tends to be extremely rough on those who do not believe in the concepts of "Burn-in; Play-in." So, how long? you ask. In most cases, users should brace for a minimum of 300 hrs on the clock. In my experience, it took roughly 325-350. And another 200 after parts upgrade two months later. _And it was worth the wait!  _


 

 No impatience here.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I've all the time to wait because for the 6 SE and all the tubes I ran out of money! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And i do believe in burn-in: my 6 SE after 110 hours sounds waaaay smother than the first hours!
   
  What about upgraded with digital bridge & super caps? Is this a service offered from Wyred themself?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> See, I think you're just trying to get me to buy the GEC 6080.


 


  That will certainly help on a hunt for a table but my funds are allocated already.  I'm just trying to free up some of the tubes that I don't use to someone who may gibe them more loves than me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Are you and 'shipsupt' calling me anything but silent?! I hadn't noticed... only pay attention to 8k posts and up. Take grokit, for example, he went from zero to sixty in under (?) seconds!


 


  You silent?  For some reason, I did not notice that at all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> No impatience here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes, Wyred4sound performed the upgrades to my DAC-1. But if you buy the DAC-2, it's in there (stock). My _WA 6 Special Edition _through the first 125 hours did absolutely nuthin'. It did little to get my attention until hours 275. Things finally settled (no more subtle changes) at 425 hours and that's when I decided to roll my first tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You silent?  For some reason, I did not notice that at all.


 

  
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  As silent as my Woo unplugged.


----------



## Gwarmi

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As silent as my Woo unplugged.


 


   Or not so silent when unplugged! - Love how the dissipating charge in these things means that the music keeps playing
   for a few seconds, slowly, slowly, fading until the last note disappears


----------



## hodgjy

My main preamp tubes of choice for my WA3 are the Sylvania 6DJ8, but their prices have skyrocketed lately.  I've been in tube rolling mood, so I ordered a matched pair of Philips 6922 straight from Woo.  They actually had the best price on them.  I'll see how they sound sometime next week, most likely.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gwarmi said:


> Or not so silent when unplugged! - Love how the dissipating charge in these things means that the music keeps playing
> for a few seconds, slowly, slowly, fading until the last note disappears


 







 You pulled the plugged?! Woo Audio amps deserve so much respect, I couldn't even see someone doing it during a heated divorce! And you did it out of... _curiosity? _





  (To non-members out there who happened upon this thread, Gwarmi & Silent One are joking. No amps have been harmed during these exchanges)


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> (To non-members out there who happened upon this thread, Gwarmi & Silent One are joking. No amps have been harmed during these exchanges)




Nice kayfabe-breaking aside.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

LCD-2 + this song!


----------



## jc9394

Vinyl owners, need help from you.  How is the Rega P1?  Thinking about picking up one locally to get my feet wet again and will most likely a better one next year or two if I like vinyl like I did in the '80's.


----------



## Silent One

Not an owner but it represents good value and could serve you well. It's discontinued, so you're likely to find retail pricing attractive, and secondhand as well.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not an owner but it represents good value and could serve you well. It's discontinued, so you're likely to find retail pricing attractive, and secondhand as well.


 


   
  Secondhand, $200 cash and carry but gets to try it before paying.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> LCD-2 + this song!


 


  I'm currently LCD2-less, but I can imagine! The track was right pleasant. Now, if I could just get my ice-cream scooping, champagne serving hands on a 24-bit version...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Secondhand, $200 cash and carry but gets to try it before paying.


 

 Rent-A-Rega ~
   
  I'd do it. But my counter offer would depend on condition (needle-belt-motor), going rate and the seller. And if I found it worthy, I'd quickly bring it home and place it into service. Your goal is short-term, after all...


----------



## jc9394

He only have it a little over a year but upgraded last fall, I guess it is less than a year on service.  Like any used turntable, I assumed that I need to replace the belt and stylus sooner than later.


----------



## Silent One

You set to check it out tomorrow? Perhaps, you'll get more feedback then. But the deal certainly has my interest... I'd look to bring it home.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Secondhand, $200 cash and carry but gets to try it before paying.


 


   
  For that price I would give it a go. For the original MSRP, something like a vintage Thorens TD-160 or an AR-XA/XB is a little more peppy. I listened to the P1 for a bit, but liked both my Thorens and AR a bit better.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm currently LCD2-less, but I can imagine! The track was right pleasant. Now, if I could just get my ice-cream scooping, champagne serving hands on a 24-bit version...


 


  i downloaded the EP in lossless. had to buy it though, but worth it.
   
  and use ur d7ks!


----------



## ajreynol

Hi guys!  I'm currently considering a WA2 or WA6SE.  My headphones of choice at the moment are the Denon D7000's and the Hitman HE-5LE's.
   
  My only real audio source at the moment is my computer and I have a Nuforce Icon that to date has been serving as both my DAC and my AMP.
   
  I'm wondering if (1) continuing to use my Icon as a DAC connected to either of these Woo Audio amps would be acceptable, and (2) if the WA2 or WA6SE would have any trouble driving the HE5-LE's. 
   
  I have very little actual experience with tube amps or Woo Audio amps, but I do know that they are among the best, so I figured I'd jump straight into something good.  Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.
   
  Thank you.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2 will not play well with denon or other low impedance headphones...


----------



## ajreynol

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA2 will not play well with denon or other low impedance headphones...


 


  Any special reason?  The last review I read said it sounded great with the D7000 (low) and the HD650 (higher). 
   
  I assume the HE-5LE (about as high as the come) will be fine?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ajreynol said:


> Any special reason?  The last review I read said it sounded great with the D7000 (low) and the HD650 (higher).
> 
> I assume the HE-5LE (about as high as the come) will be fine?


 

  
  no, its still really low impedance. 
   
  my lcd-2 likewise also don't pair very well with the WA2. 
   
  the WA2 can really only drive high impedance headphones. other headphones will not get loud enough and will clip easily, starting with the bass.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ajreynol said:


> I assume the HE-5LE (about as high as the come) will be fine?


 

 38 ohms and 87dB sensitivity.  Orthos are a little different load for amps than a dynamic headphone would be, so the impedance probably isn't as big a problem as it is with the Denon, but the amp won't deliver a lot of power into that load.  The low sensitivity will compound the problem further.


----------



## leng jai

I find it hard to believe the WA2 would struggle to drive the D7000s. Too bad I sold them off last week.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> no, its still really low impedance.
> 
> my lcd-2 likewise also don't pair very well with the WA2.
> 
> the WA2 can really only drive high impedance headphones. other headphones will not get loud enough and will clip easily, starting with the bass.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





ajreynol said:


> I have very little actual experience with tube amps or Woo Audio amps, but I do know that they are among the best, so I figured I'd jump straight into something good.  Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you.


 

 Although you may get some accurate guidance here from forum members, many here, have one opinion or another that is based on their setup and their music choices. If I were you and serious about a Woo amp, then there is no better source for answers to specific setup questions than Jack Wu. I recommend that you send an email to him. He has always been very helpful.
   
  HTH


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Vinyl owners, need help from you.  How is the Rega P1?  Thinking about picking up one locally to get my feet wet again and will most likely a better one next year or two if I like vinyl like I did in the '80's.


 


  PM Skylab


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My _WA 6 Special Edition _through the first 125 hours did absolutely nuthin'. It did little to get my attention until hours 275. Things finally settled (no more subtle changes) at 425 hours and that's when I decided to roll my first tubes.


 

 What changes did you notice in the sound at 275 hours and why before the amp did not get so much attention?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> LCD-2 + this song!


 

 Hi Dupstep Girl,
   
  What tubs are you using to drive the LCD-2?  I noticed they require about 2w of input.  Please correct me if I'm wrong..
   
  Thanks..


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





ajreynol said:


> Hi guys!  I'm currently considering a WA2 or WA6SE.  My headphones of choice at the moment are the Denon D7000's and the Hitman HE-5LE's.
> 
> My only real audio source at the moment is my computer and I have a Nuforce Icon that to date has been serving as both my DAC and my AMP.
> 
> ...


 

 http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
   
  I found on their web site.  It lays out all there amps in a nice table.  I never saw it until a few days ago.


----------



## speeddeacon

With over 70000 posts in this thread, I thought I would just ask this question.  For a Woo owner to be, is there a post or link that summarizes the "sound" of the various tubes in our amps.  Such as tube x= tight bass with extension but hollow imiging; tube y= lush mids and vast soundstage, muddy low end, or something like that?  Thanks!


----------



## hodgjy

You could read through all the posts and get an ok idea about their sound, but there is still really not a consensus on the "sound" of each amp.  This is because most of us use different tube combinations, which can, and will, give off different sound characteristics.  Also, each of us hears sound very differently.
   
  But, you can make some very very very general characterizations here.
   
  The OTL amps sound the most "tubey" of the Woo line.  They are the most warm and show the highest level of tube bloom.  The output transformer amps sound the least "tubey" of the bunch.  These amps are the most clear, spacious, airy.  As you go up in price for each type, the sound becomes more refined, dynamic, accurate, and have larger sound stages.
   
  This is a very very general overview.  Of course it is not the whole picture, and there are exceptions.  Some will agree with these descriptions, and some will disagree.  This is mainly my interpretation from reading through all these posts, PMing members here, and even emailing Jack Wu about which amp I should buy.
   
  Hope this helps.
  
  Quote: 





speeddeacon said:


> With over 70000 posts in this thread, I thought I would just ask this question.  For a Woo owner to be, is there a post or link that summarizes the "sound" of the various tubes in our amps.  Such as tube x= tight bass with extension but hollow imiging; tube y= lush mids and vast soundstage, muddy low end, or something like that?  Thanks!


----------



## hodgjy

Sorry, perhaps I should have read your post more closely.  You were asking about the sound of each tube.  Like my first post, the sound of the tube will depend some on the amp and the amp's topology.  The same tube may sound lean in amp A, but sound warm in amp B.
   
  Here is a nice power tube thread that I participated in.  It's a good discussion.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here

  
  Quote: 





speeddeacon said:


> With over 70000 posts in this thread, I thought I would just ask this question.  For a Woo owner to be, is there a post or link that summarizes the "sound" of the various tubes in our amps.  Such as tube x= tight bass with extension but hollow imiging; tube y= lush mids and vast soundstage, muddy low end, or something like that?  Thanks!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> PM Skylab


 


  he answered my question on other thread.


----------



## hodgjy

He was very helpful to me when I got started around here picking out amps, tubes, and cans.  Super nice guy and super knowledgeable. 
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> he answered my question on other thread.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> He was very helpful to me when I got started around here picking out amps, tubes, and cans.  Super nice guy and super knowledgeable.


 


   
  Totally agreed, too bad he sold his WA22 and don't spend as much time here as before.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> no, its still really low impedance.
> 
> my lcd-2 likewise also don't pair very well with the WA2.
> 
> the WA2 can really only drive high impedance headphones. other headphones will not get loud enough and will clip easily, starting with the bass.


 

 Is your WA2 newer? The one I had (got it brand new last February) was very good with my (now sold) LCD-2s and D7000s.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ajreynol said:


> Hi guys!  I'm currently considering a WA2 or WA6SE.  My headphones of choice at the moment are the Denon D7000's and the Hitman HE-5LE's.
> 
> My only real audio source at the moment is my computer and I have a Nuforce Icon that to date has been serving as both my DAC and my AMP.
> 
> ...


 

 Currently using a WA6SE/D7000 combo. Auditioned the HE-5LE's for a month. The amp successfully pairs with both. I'd recommend using the NuForce with your new amp of choice. Spend time getting to know your system, you can always add another DAC later.


----------



## Rawrbington

im still surprised how nice the (dirt cheap) beyer DT770 pro 80 ohm sounds with my WA2.
  the woo tightens up its bass a little but still goes all the way down.  and warms up their midrange a little too.
  anything electronic sounds very nice for a pair of 90$ cans


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> What changes did you notice in the sound at 275 hours and why before the amp did not get so much attention?


 


  The changes were both gradual and subtle. And were likely underway up to the 275 hour mark. But that's when I found things emerging, like turning the corner. Prior, the sound was sort of flat, thin, simple and uninspiring. Musical? Hardly! Even after my initial first day four hour session though, I didn't worry and knew it'd be only a matter of time.
   
  So, all of these things became less so, and became more refined at the 400 hour mark. Proof came by way of head movement and/or toe tapping. Take Thelonoius Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" for example. No matter how plush the chair is inside your listening room. Or how exhausted you might be, it'd be rare for your foot/feet not to move involuntarily to this track. During burn-in, all tapping inside the listening room was silent, if at all. 
   
  I'd like to add, however, that my experience should not be view as a rule of thumb. But serve for informational purposes only. I'm well aware that my emotional state had everything to do with the timing of when changes did or did not occur.


----------



## hodgjy

I took this picture a few minutes ago.  It's my little corner of the world.


----------



## Rawrbington

wow hodgjy
  the asgard is smaller than i always imagined.
  kinda makes the WA3 look big in that picture.
   
  which can does that schiit mesh better with the 600 or 990?


----------



## hodgjy

It really depends on the music.  I'd say the Schiit meshes really well with both, but overall, it's better with the HD600.  The Schiit DT990 combo is great for metal, though.  I still run all possible combos, depending on the music.  Schiit w/ both HD600 and DT990, and WA3 with both HD600 and DT990.  I like to mix things up to keep my ears from getting bored.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> which can does that schiit mesh better with the 600 or 990?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Hi Dupstep Girl,
> 
> What tubs are you using to drive the LCD-2?  I noticed they require about 2w of input.  Please correct me if I'm wrong..
> 
> Thanks..


 


  off of the WA6SE, i use the sophia 274b and raytheon 6ew7s. 10 o clock is loud with the lcd-2 in. very easy to power.


  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Is your WA2 newer? The one I had (got it brand new last February) was very good with my (now sold) LCD-2s and D7000s.


 


  yeah. im starting to worry since i'm the only one thats noticed poor performance with low impedance. do you think i might have a bad amp or something?

  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im still surprised how nice the (dirt cheap) beyer DT770 pro 80 ohm sounds with my WA2.
> the woo tightens up its bass a little but still goes all the way down.  and warms up their midrange a little too.
> anything electronic sounds very nice for a pair of 90$ cans


 


   
  my K701s get loud enough  but they can't play anything bassy (particularly midbass punchy stuff like pop or trance)  on the WA2, the bass clips.  so i can see people enjoying k701s on them if they listening to classical or something.
   
  same with the denon, they clip and don't get loud, but as long as you don't give them any bass its ok.
   
  the rs1 is the exception. they can handle more bass and get adaquately loud. however, they can start to clip in complicated passages. for the most part though, the rs1 as well as the 325is are well driven.
   
  the ultrasone pro 900. phail on the wa2.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


ajreynol said:


> I assume the HE-5LE (about as high as the come) will be fine?


 
   
  The HE-5LE is a b*tch to drive, even the 6SE will have problems driving it properly and the WA2 is definitely a no-go.
   
   
   Quote:
   


leng jai said:


> I find it hard to believe the WA2 would struggle to drive the D7000s.


 

 Agreed. It's a very efficient headphone so the impedance mismatch won't be as much of a problem.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


hodgjy said:


> But, you can make some very very very general characterizations here.
> 
> *The OTL amps sound the most "tubey" of the Woo line.*  They are the most warm and show the highest level of tube bloom.  The output transformer amps sound the least "tubey" of the bunch.  These amps are the most clear, spacious, airy.  As you go up in price for each type, the sound becomes more refined, dynamic, accurate, and have larger sound stages.
> 
> This is a very very general overview.  Of course it is not the whole picture, and *there are exceptions*.


 
   
  The glaring exception to this generalization would be the WA22, which is output transformer coupled yet is the most euphonic or "tubey" of all the Woo amps.

  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I took this picture a few minutes ago.  It's my little corner of the world.


 
   
  Nice-looking setup!


----------



## hodgjy

Many thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice-looking setup!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah. im starting to worry since i'm the only one thats noticed poor performance with low impedance. do you think i might have a bad amp or something?


 

 Not sure. You might want to shoot Jack an email about it.


----------



## Rawrbington

i experienced similar issues with the DT770 32 ohm.
  but with the 80 ohm and shure 840 it had no issues.
   
  who knows


----------



## leng jai

I just tried the K702s on the WA2 and they don't seem to play well. The Woo seems to struggle powering them. With the T1s I'm usually listening from 10-11 o clock on the volume dial but with the K702 I'm going all the way up to 1 o clock.They didn't sound right to me compared to how they sound on the Burson (which drives them to sufficient volume at around 11 o clock, same as the T1).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I just tried the K702s on the WA2 and they don't seem to play well. The Woo seems to struggle powering them. With the T1s I'm usually listening from 10-11 o clock on the volume dial but with the K702 I'm going all the way up to 1 o clock.They didn't sound right to me compared to how they sound on the Burson (which drives them to sufficient volume at around 11 o clock, same as the T1).


 


  hows the bass? for me, even if they sound ok, the bass starts to sound like crap, especially midbass.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You set to check it out tomorrow? Perhaps, you'll get more feedback then. But the deal certainly has my interest... I'd look to bring it home.


 


   
  Scheduling conflict due to the football game, seller is busy hosting a game party and asked me to go over during the game but I'm going to the game.  We will meet on Wednesday morning instead.


----------



## shipsupt

It's been my experience that you can drive the HE-5LE pretty effectively from the 6SE if you choose the right tubes, something with a high amplification factor.  They are MUCH easier to drive than the HE-6, but still no walk in the park.   I generally prefer listening to them from the vintage rig. 
   
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> The HE-5LE is a b*tch to drive, even the 6SE will have problems driving it properly and the WA2 is definitely a no-go.
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

I've not found any 6EW7 to be a great combination with the LCD-2 (although I do like it with other headphones).  I find they lack the dynamics, detail, and extension when compared to other tubes paired with the LCD-2.

 I've prefered the Sylvania* fat bottle *black plate 6FD7 and various 6EM7/6EA7 and 6DN7's.
   
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> off of the WA6SE, i use the sophia 274b and raytheon 6ew7s. 10 o clock is loud with the lcd-2 in. very easy to power.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I've not found any 6EW7 to be a great combination with the LCD-2 (although I do like it with other headphones).  I find they lack the dynamics, detail, and extension when compared to other tubes paired with the LCD-2.
> 
> I've prefered the Sylvania* fat bottle *black plate 6FD7 and various 6EM7/6EA7 and 6DN7's.


 


  probably because the 6EW7 have a nice smooth high end and are a little more laid back sounding than other tubes, works great with all my other cans since most people find them bright in their setups, but i never find it to be an issue for me.
   
   
  while i can imagine there being better combinations for the LCD-2. it sounds good to me. haven't heard the LCD-2 with other combos though or with other amps.


----------



## randomstranger

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah. im starting to worry since i'm the only one thats noticed poor performance with low impedance. do you think i might have a bad amp or something?


 
   
  When I use my ATH-M50 (38 omh) with my WA2 there is noticeable hum that can be heard through my cans when there isn't music playing.  Once the music starts, I can't hear the hum over the music.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my WA2 is completely silent with any of my tubes now and it never hums or hisses. even at max vol, its pitch black silence.
   
  the WA6SE only showed some noise after going past 3/4th of the volume knob, of course, no-one will listen that loud since most headphones will clip by then.


----------



## hodgjy

Some tubes just hum.  Some burn out of it.  Some will hum until the day they die.  I don't think anything about the Woo amp topologies or quality control will lead them to hum on their own.  It all comes down to the tubes.


----------



## leng jai

Yeah there was some kind of funny distortion happening in the midrange when I was using the K702. Hard to explain.


----------



## randomstranger

When my HD800s are plugged in they are absolutely silent when nothing is playing.  I don't have any other headphones to do further testing but either way it doesn't make a difference since my main headphones sound perfect with the WA2.


----------



## leng jai

I don't think it should matter what phones you plug in. If the tubes have a hum it should be apparent on every pair.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I just tried the K702s on the WA2 and they don't seem to play well. The Woo seems to struggle powering them. With the T1s I'm usually listening from 10-11 o clock on the volume dial but with the K702 I'm going all the way up to 1 o clock.They didn't sound right to me compared to how they sound on the Burson (which drives them to sufficient volume at around 11 o clock, same as the T1).


 


  Just to chip in on the Low Impedance thing. I've been quite happy with Alessandro MS Pro's on the WA2. Run Volume at about 11 o'clock, volume is about 50% set via software (64bit depth on Jriver media centre, so lots of room to manipulate). I've been using some higher impedance DT880s which sound pleasing, but I keep going back to MS pro. I'm not getting any of the clipping that people report on low impedance, I enjoyed the bass on the youtube clip that was recently posted if that means anything. I try to run relatively low volumes, as doing otherwise is physically uncomfortable. Were it not for digital attenuation. Analogue volume control would likely be less than 11 o'clock.
   
  The 32 ohm MS Pro. DOES sound different running from the solid state. But the WA2 has been getting all the attention and I haven't been rushing back to the SS.
   
  I do not get any tube hum, despite the amp sitting on a desk with a computer with plenty lot's of slow turning fans. I even have a 5v USB fan sitting ON the amp blowing downward as I've been doing some experiments in cooling. The tubes do not hum. I only have the stock ones at this time.


----------



## randomstranger

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I don't think it should matter what phones you plug in. If the tubes have a hum it should be apparent on every pair.


 


  It's hard to say since I know there isn't any hum or any noise that plays when I plug in my HD 800s without audio playing.  Once I plug in my ATH-M50s, I can instantly hear a low pitch hum that results from my amp.  It could be due to my cheap RCA connectors from my Bifrost to WA2 and that my ATH-M50s are sensitive enough to pick up on the interference.


----------



## hodgjy

It is possible that if the output impedance of your amp is higher than the input impedance of your headphones a hum an result.  There would be a very high loss of power, which would conceivable be audible.
  
  Quote: 





randomstranger said:


> It's hard to say since I know there isn't any hum or any noise that plays when I plug in my HD 800s without audio playing.  Once I plug in my ATH-M50s, I can instantly hear a low pitch hum that results from my amp.  It could be due to my cheap RCA connectors from my Bifrost to WA2 and that my ATH-M50s are sensitive enough to pick up on the interference.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

guess my wa2 is normal then


----------



## randomstranger

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It is possible that if the output impedance of your amp is higher than the input impedance of your headphones a hum an result.  There would be a very high loss of power, which would conceivable be audible.


 


  That seems to make the most amount of sense to me.  It's not a problem since it's common knowledge that using low impedance headphones with OTL amps end up with some frequency response abnormalities as said by Skylab.  I will say that running optical out from my ps3 so that I could use it with my WA2 has made Metal Gear Solid 3 HD sound absolutely amazing.


----------



## hodgjy

Also, keep in mind that higher impedance loads are EASIER for amps to drive.  Low impedance loads require lots of current.  I would assume that the harder tubes have to work, such as during impedance mismatches, they may hum or buzz.
  
  Quote: 





randomstranger said:


> That seems to make the most amount of sense to me.  It's not a problem since it's common knowledge that using low impedance headphones with OTL amps end up with some frequency response abnormalities as said by Skylab.  I will say that running optical out from my ps3 so that I could use it with my WA2 has made Metal Gear Solid 3 HD sound absolutely amazing.


----------



## leng jai

Metal Gear games usually have high quality mixes. Try MGS4 on your setup, too good.
   
  Other PS3 games that really impressed me in the audio department:
   
  Wipeout HD
  Child of Eden (soundtrack is awesome)
  Shatter (soundtrack is awesome)
  Medal of Honor (or anything running on the battlefield engine)
  Uncharted series
  God Of War
  Dead Space series
  Mirrors Edge
  Killzone Series
  Trine 2
  Red Dead Redemption

  
  Quote: 





randomstranger said:


> That seems to make the most amount of sense to me.  It's not a problem since it's common knowledge that using low impedance headphones with OTL amps end up with some frequency response abnormalities as said by Skylab.  I will say that running optical out from my ps3 so that I could use it with my WA2 has made Metal Gear Solid 3 HD sound absolutely amazing.


----------



## grokit

IME the K701/2 is almost as hard to drive as the HE-5/LE.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> IME the K701/2 is almost as hard to drive as the HE-5/LE.


 


  lmao, i do need to push the volume on my WA6SE alot more for them than for any other headphone including dt 990 - 600 ohm and lcd-2.
   
  the K701 are the hardest to drive out of all of them.
   
   
  the easiest? grado and hd 650s.
   
  the hd 650s get loud very easily.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I took this picture a few minutes ago.  It's my little corner of the world.


 

 Well done!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well done!


 


  +1


----------



## hodgjy

Thank you!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well done!


 


   


  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> The HE-5LE is a b*tch to drive, even the 6SE will have problems driving it properly and the WA2 is definitely a no-go.
> 
> ...


 


  The dynamics of the WA6SE makes it the logical choice between the two. While I could have used a more "spiked" tube combo, I had no problem driving the HE-5LE (on loan from shipsupt) using the EML-5U4G/Raytheon 6SN7W combo. To be fair, I understood what you meant though by "properly" and perhaps the 6SE & 5LE not being an optimal pairing. But if one had the pair, it would not struggle or stumble and could prove to be enjoyable. Tube selection/genre selection could have an impact here.
   
  For fun, I plugged the HE-5LE's into my vintage iron (Pioneer SX-650, 1977) and that's when it came alive! My relations with the can certainly improved. I'd push and it'd push right back. It was as if we were playing together (catch?). As with the Woo, the 5LE still had the familiar clear-as-a-bell presentation, layering and staging. The vintage iron just brought a lil' more to the table to feast on.


----------



## hodgjy

Right now:
   
  Led Zeppelin + WA3 + DT990 + Svetlana 6N13 power tube = oddly satisfying combo.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Right now:
> 
> Led Zeppelin + WA3 + DT990 + Svetlana 6N13 power tube = oddly satisfying combo.


 


  AWESOME!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Right now:
> 
> Led Zeppelin + WA3 + DT990 + Svetlana 6N13 power tube = oddly satisfying combo.


 


  Ever roll the fuse in your Woo?


----------



## hodgjy

Nope.  What effect would that have? 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ever roll the fuse in your Woo?


----------



## hodgjy

Many people say the Svetlana 6N13 is dull with a little veil.  It is.  But, many Zeppelin recordings are kinda thin, so this tube actually helps beef them up in an odd way.  I've been experimenting lately, as you may tell.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> AWESOME!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Scheduling conflict due to the football game, seller is busy hosting a game party and asked me to go over during the game but I'm going to the game.  We will meet on Wednesday morning instead.


 


  Playoff game? Lucky Head-Fier! Times have been lean in the Land of Silver & Blackdom. My last playoff attendance was at the AFC Championship Game - Raiders/Titans. At least I have a fine vacuum tube amplifier to pacify me until next season.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Nope.  What effect would that have?


 


  Though subtle, it could change the presentation of your amp. Like tube rolling but at a lower level.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm all for experimentation.  Any suggested fuses?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Though subtle, it could change the presentation of your amp. Like tube rolling but at a lower level.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm all for experimentation.  Any suggested fuses?


 


  I'm currently rolling a Furutech High Performance Nonmagnetic Cryogenic treated time-lag fuse (Slow Blow T type - 5x20mm). 




   
  HiFi-Tuning and Isoclean are two other choices I know of. Fellow Woo mate BIG POPPA has a WA3 and has rolled fuses in and out using a few different makes and give you the dirt on what he's found. Send him a PM... an outstanding member! I'm speaking to the audiophile inside you, hodgjy.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks.  I'll look into it.  Seeing as the football game tonight is getting ugly very quickly, I may research some fuses as I mellow out to Mark Knopfler.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I have bunch of them for my Woo. I would start with the Furutech Rhodium Fuses. Silky mids. Have all Hi-fi tuning, Furutech and Isoclean.
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm all for experimentation.  Any suggested fuses?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks, Big Poppa.  I'll look into these.
  
  Quote: 





big poppa said:


> I have bunch of them for my Woo. I would start with the Furutech Rhodium Fuses. Silky mids. Have all Hi-fi tuning, Furutech and Isoclean.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Playoff game? Lucky Head-Fier! Times have been lean in the Land of Silver & Blackdom. My last playoff attendance was at the AFC Championship Game - Raiders/Titans. At least I have a fine vacuum tube amplifier to pacify me until next season.


 


   
  Yes, got lucky.  I think the ticket may worth more than my Woo. 
   
  Congrats on SF win...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> I have bunch of them for my Woo. I would start with the Furutech Rhodium Fuses. Silky mids. Have all Hi-fi tuning, Furutech and Isoclean.


 


  Always great to see you stop by!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, got lucky.  I think the ticket may worth more than my Woo.
> 
> Congrats on SF win...


 


  I was pulling for the Saints, actually. I'm a life-long Oakland Raider-Los Angeles Raider-Oakland Raider fan. Had season tix for the LA Coliseum. And occasionally travel up to the Oakland Coliseum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seeing Bo Jackson in person was quite the treat.
   
  Also enjoyed season tix (provided by the stock brokerage firm I worked at) behind the player's bench for Lakers/Kings. For a few year run, I was able to see Magic, Gretzy and Bo all do their thing, year-round.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It is possible that if the output impedance of your amp is higher than the input impedance of your headphones a hum an result.  There would be a very high loss of power, which would conceivable be audible.


 


   


  Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I don't think it should matter what phones you plug in. If the tubes have a hum it should be apparent on every pair.


 


   


  Quote: 





randomstranger said:


> When my HD800s are plugged in they are absolutely silent when nothing is playing.  I don't have any other headphones to do further testing but either way it doesn't make a difference since my main headphones sound perfect with the WA2.


 


   


  Quote: 





randomstranger said:


> When I use my ATH-M50 (38 omh) with my WA2 there is noticeable hum that can be heard through my cans when there isn't music playing.  Once the music starts, I can't hear the hum over the music.


 


   


  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Also, keep in mind that higher impedance loads are EASIER for amps to drive.  Low impedance loads require lots of current.  I would assume that the harder tubes have to work, such as during impedance mismatches, they may hum or buzz.


 
  i **THINK** the hum from one headphone to another is usually a tube.  i had a pair of 5998s and one of them had a very subtle hum that could only be heard from my beyer 32 and 80 ohm.  i think it has to do with sensitivity maybe?
  because then it would be dead silent with my other higher imp cans.
  and after switching to new tubes then the hum was gone on all of them


----------



## Rawrbington

in other news got a new camera today for free sort of.
  its a nikon s3100
  14 mega pixels.
  but its kinda crappy lol.
  or im just a bad photographer.
  but nonetheless,
  its picture time!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice.


----------



## hodgjy

What is your vintage receiver?  Looks sweet!
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> in other news got a new camera today for free sort of.
> its a nikon s3100
> 14 mega pixels.
> but its kinda crappy lol.
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

shes a Yam CR 840
   
  i probably overpaid at 100$ but the guy had owned it since he bought it new at age 12 or something.
  it was in fantastic condition.


----------



## hodgjy

Na, that's a bargain for vintage and great sound.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> shes a Yam CR 840
> 
> *i probably overpaid at 100$ *but the guy had owned it since he bought it new at age 12 or something.
> it was in fantastic condition.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> shes a Yam CR 840
> 
> i probably overpaid at 100$ but the guy had owned it since he bought it new at age 12 or something.
> it was in fantastic condition.


 


  The Yammy/Woo compliment can cover extra bases. Periodically, when I load my playlist, there are some tracks/albums where only "iron" will do. So, I'll run the amps together with two DACs and a bridge. Then, when I land on a track with anemic Bass or dynamics in the recording, I simply plug the cans into the Pioneer on the spot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I noticed the proximity of the door in relation to your set up. Ever come in like Kramer (Seinfeld) or no need to worry?
   
  Also, do you sit on the floor a la Steve Jobs? Or did you remove your seat for photograph purposes?


----------



## hodgjy

Ha, now there's some old memories!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ever come in like Kramer (Seinfeld) or no need to worry?


----------



## ajreynol

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently using a WA6SE/D7000 combo. Auditioned the HE-5LE's for a month. The amp successfully pairs with both. I'd recommend using the NuForce with your new amp of choice. Spend time getting to know your system, you can always add another DAC later.


 


  awesome man.  thanks for the confirmation.  and to all who replied, I appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Yammy/Woo compliment can cover extra bases. Periodically, when I load my playlist, there are some tracks/albums where only "iron" will do. So, I'll run the amps together with two DACs and a bridge. Then, when I land on a track with anemic Bass or dynamics in the recording, I simply plug the cans into the Pioneer on the spot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha!
  i was sitting in the chair for a few pics and then just stood up for others.
  that door is fine.
  but the other door you can't see, which is just to my right in the first pic will bump the little table if opened all the way.
  howerver i have a plastic blank cd case thing strategically placed so the door hits it first and stops before hitting the yam or table lol.
   
  i need a bigger room!


----------



## Silent One

Whew! Music lovers and audiophiles have been known to go to extremes...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Whew! Music lovers and audiophiles have been known to go to extremes...


 


  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ajreynol said:


> awesome man.  thanks for the confirmation.  and to all who replied, I appreciate your thoughts.


 


  You're most welcome. Should you decide to purchase one of the two Woo Audio amps discussed, you may not be out of the woods just yet. I have observed the simple act of selecting color, trip up many a member in this space.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're most welcome. Should you decide to purchase one of the two Woo Audio amps discussed, you may not be out of the woods just yet. I have observed the simple act of selecting color, trip up many a member in this space.


 


  wise words from one who seldom speaks. listen and thou shall learn much.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 

 The first time I saw your setup, I knew there would be no constraints keeping you from enjoying the music!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wise words from one who seldom speaks. listen and thou shall learn much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i knew u'd like that


----------



## Silent One

Fighting temptation tonight! No session scheduled... was my night off. I value my nights away as much as my nights in-session. In my view, they are linked - a strong appreciation for the music and allowing time for my inner ears to expand (Ying-Yang?).
   
  It's great when members post pix in this space. And that's exactly why I feeling weak, wanting to sneak in quick 90 min session! Hmmm...




   
  Edit: Ok, we're goin' in @ "Zero-Dark-Thirty!" One hour warm ups are common inside my listening room... striving for the warmth of Paisley Park.


----------



## danska

Well I picked up a set of the LCD-2 yesterday afternoon @ ALO in Portland. Drove down to see a friend and figured I'd go in and take a listen to some high-end cans in person. I never had listened to anything better than my HD-650 as far as full-size headphones go, so it was quite a treat. They even had a WA2 there!
   
  To tell the truth I demoed some stuff on my RSA protector, their Continental and then used their Isabellina HPA. My whole goal of the trip was with the LCD-2 in mind, but I figured you don't get an opportunity to try HD-800, HE-6, HE-500, and the LCD-2 all on the same amp, same source, etc. It was a rocking time, and I feel like I left with exactly what I came for. Macedonian Hero gave me some good pointers in my search for the next level of headphone beyond my limited experience, cheers to him! I could give my comments on the other cans as well, if anyone is curious. I've been reading through the LCD cable thread to figure out which direction to go there, as I really need a longer cable in my rigs. For cost purposes I think I've limited myself to the Norse or Q-audio, I need something like 12' in length to be comfortable, other than lying on my bed.
   
  I've only tried the LCD-2s with the Schiit Lyr so far, will try out the WA6 tomorrow. Bought the Lyr specifically for running some higher power requirement can. I've put in a good four hours tonight, taking a bunch of breaks. Even though I have a bit of a cold I can't help but keep listening to stuff. I can't believe how much of an improvement these are compared to my Senns! They really do everything better! The depth of the Sennheiser soundstage seems a little more broad, but I don't even want to plug them in at the moment to find out.
   
  Listened to everything from The Beatles to Radiohead to The Roots to Stravinsky. I've found new aspects to all the music I've listened to before, really a pretty amazing experience.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats on gettin' new cans! And a nod to MacedonianHero for the assist...


----------



## jerico

hodgjy said:


> Right now:
> 
> Led Zeppelin + WA3 + DT990 + Svetlana 6N13 power tube = oddly satisfying combo.




That doesn't sound odd at all!


----------



## hodgjy

The 6N13 tube isn't know for its clarity or musicality, but it was really coming alive last night!
  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> That doesn't sound odd at all!


----------



## speeddeacon

Thanks for the link.  It is very interesting. 
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sorry, perhaps I should have read your post more closely.  You were asking about the sound of each tube.  Like my first post, the sound of the tube will depend some on the amp and the amp's topology.  The same tube may sound lean in amp A, but sound warm in amp B.
> 
> Here is a nice power tube thread that I participated in.  It's a good discussion.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here


----------



## hodgjy

You're welcome.  I'm sorry for your wallet, though.  Tube rolling is very fun, addictive, and sometimes expensive!
  
  Quote: 





speeddeacon said:


> Thanks for the link.  It is very interesting.


----------



## speeddeacon

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You're welcome.  I'm sorry for your wallet, though.  Tube rolling is very fun, addictive, and sometimes expensive!


 
  Yeah, I kinda think of it as my personal version of a stimulus package


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





speeddeacon said:


> Yeah, I kinda think of it as my personal version of a stimulus package


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





danska said:


> Well I picked up a set of the LCD-2 yesterday afternoon @ ALO in Portland. Drove down to see a friend and figured I'd go in and take a listen to some high-end cans in person. I never had listened to anything better than my HD-650 as far as full-size headphones go, so it was quite a treat. They even had a WA2 there!
> 
> To tell the truth I demoed some stuff on my RSA protector, their Continental and then used their Isabellina HPA. My whole goal of the trip was with the LCD-2 in mind, but I figured you don't get an opportunity to try HD-800, HE-6, HE-500, and the LCD-2 all on the same amp, same source, etc. It was a rocking time, and I feel like I left with exactly what I came for. Macedonian Hero gave me some good pointers in my search for the next level of headphone beyond my limited experience, cheers to him! I could give my comments on the other cans as well, if anyone is curious. I've been reading through the LCD cable thread to figure out which direction to go there, as I really need a longer cable in my rigs. For cost purposes I think I've limited myself to the Norse or Q-audio, I need something like 12' in length to be comfortable, other than lying on my bed.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like quite the trip. ALO Audio looks pretty impressive. We've got a subcontractor (from work) in Portland and hopefully I'll be able to get out there sooner than later to visit ALO...errr I mean our subcontractor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Of all the great headphones you mentioned, I prefer the LCD-2/3 sound and the match with the Lyr is great. Many have reported (including Skylab) how well the LCD-2s go with the WA6 as well. Enjoy!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Sounds like quite the trip. ALO Audio looks pretty impressive. We've got a subcontractor (from work) in Portland and hopefully I'll be able to get out there sooner than later to visit ALO...errr I mean our subcontractor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  +1
   
  the LCD-2 sounds really good out of the WA6-SE.


----------



## Ahzari

How much do the two units of the SE weigh combined? I thought I read 22lb each on the woo audio website but the shipping weight of my on order SE says 21.6 lb total via FedEx.


----------



## Silent One

Weight: Amp 12 lbs; PSU 10 lbs.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Weight: Amp 12 lbs; PSU 10 lbs.


 


  thanks!


----------



## Rawrbington

this song is good and warm and awesome with the hd 650/WA2 combo
   




   
  i could repeat it all night!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> this song is good and warm and awesome with the hd 650/WA2 combo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 very nice. now listen to it using the RS1/WA2 combo.
   
   
  i've been using the RS1 and noticed it sounds amazing on the WA2. the best synergy ever. very warm but still aggressive and detailed. a very euphonic sound that brings everything to life.
   
  the grados are one of the few low impedance that work well out of the WA2. only problem is i can't play anything bassy, but for slower music at moderate listening levels, its really really good.


----------



## Rawrbington

but i don't have RS1's
  =(
  what happens if its bassy?
  do they clip similar to the pro 900s with hte wa2?


----------



## hodgjy

This song made my WA3 and HD600s come alive last night.  It was surreal.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> but i don't have RS1's
> =(
> what happens if its bassy?
> do they clip similar to the pro 900s with hte wa2?


 


  yes.
   
  like i was going to listen to a cascada song (trance), and i couldn't ccause the bass clips easily


----------



## shipsupt

Now you're rocking! 
   
  Clutch (The Company Band and The Bakerton Group) keep my up very late on a lot of nights!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> this song is good and warm and awesome with the hd 650/WA2 combo
> 
> (CLUTCH)
> 
> i could repeat it all night!


----------



## Rawrbington

clutch is the best.
   
  bakerton's nice too.
  need to give company band another listen


----------



## shipsupt

Yessir.  They've really become my #1.  Still looking for a chance to catch them live.
   
  The Bakerton Group is just a side project of Clutch doing mostly instrumental stuff.
   
  The Company Band features Clutch frontman Neil Fallon, James Rota from Fireball Ministry, Jess Margera on drums from CKY, guitarist Dave Bone, and Fu Manchu's bassist Brad Davis.  All just getting together and jamming. 
   
  A pretty cool quote from Fallon about their limited edition vinyl pressing:
   
*Fallon*: I think the vinyl aspect of it is in the middle of resurgence, I think because of how — with MP3s — the actual delivery process of music has become extremely disposable. Let's face it: most of us hardly pay for our music, and if you do get a CD, you put it on your computer, and it ends up on the floor of your car. I think vinyl is a reaction to that. You have it on your iPod, but you also have this physical thing which you can touch, feel, smell and vibe on; it's like buying stock in a company. I would hazard a guess that a lot of these people who are buying vinyl don't even have record players! I think that's more of an aesthetic reaction, because I don't think there's a lot of money to be made from vinyl.
   
  There is a 2011 release expected from The Company Band, Riding the Bull, or something like that...
   
  And to stay on topic, all three sound great from any Woo amp!
   
   

  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> clutch is the best.
> 
> bakerton's nice too.
> need to give company band another listen


----------



## Rawrbington

thats a good quote from neil.  interesting and i bet he's right lol
  always good stuff from the guys in clutch.
  i read a great quote from JP on pirating music.
   
  they are really good live.  last time i saw them they opened up for themselves as the bakerton group.
  it was good but their main show is just awesome.  rock and roll plain and simple.
   
  also i read they are working on a new album


----------



## Dubstep Girl

using the WA2 as a preamp going into my WA6-SE.
   
  with the RS1, very very tubey sound


----------



## Dubstep Girl

omg just plugged my T1 in. OMG!!!!!!
   
  sounds even better than just plugging them into the WA2.


----------



## johnman1116

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Yessir.  They've really become my #1.  Still looking for a chance to catch them live.
> 
> The Bakerton Group is just a side project of Clutch doing mostly instrumental stuff.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Now you're rocking!
> Clutch (The Company Band and The Bakerton Group) keep my up very late on a lot of nights!!


 
   
  Sorry im not in the Woo Audio club yet but DEFINITELY thinking about getting one ( WA6 or WA6se, still not too sure...) pairing with hd650 or hd600 which would be amazing. im cant wait....
  anyways, i love head-fi discovered a new band The Company Band. Freakin awesome!
  Thanks guys! 
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> using the WA2 as a preamp going into my WA6-SE.
> 
> with the RS1, very very tubey sound


 
  hey dubstep girl, do you benefit from going WA2 -> WA6SE than just going WA2 or WA6SE? also what does preamps do.. definitions are too technical for me and i dont really get it. RCA output from amp = preamp? (ima noobysauce)
   
  Thanks so much.
  I cant wait until the day i order my WOO and wait a month for my Woo too arrive! WOO(T)!


----------



## shipsupt

Shopping is so much fun!  What headphones are you planning to get?  It might influence your woo choice.
   
  Quote: 





johnman1116 said:


> Sorry im not in the Woo Audio club yet but DEFINITELY thinking about getting one ( WA6 or WA6se, still not too sure...) pairing with hd650 or hd600 which would be amazing. im cant wait....
> anyways, i love head-fi discovered a new band The Company Band. Freakin awesome!
> Thanks guys!
> 
> ...


----------



## archigius

Hi, i've a question for Woo 6 SE owners: how are the LOW and HIGH output done?
   
  I mean: is there a resistor in the LOW output or maybe there are two different impedance output transformers?
   
  I noticed that my T1 sound more airy and dynamic from the HIGH output but softer, less dynamic and more intimate from the LOW output. It is a very noticeable difference.
  Technically the HIGH output is much better: more details, deeper soundstage but the LOW output seems to work better with bright recordings.
   
  Anyone noticed this?


----------



## Xcalibur255

The output transformers have two different taps on them.


----------



## Rawrbington

so does one spit out low impedance and the other high?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Impedance is resistance to current flow.  It's why headphones present different challenges for being powered by an amp, with low impedance phones demanding greater output current and high impedance ones wanting greater voltage swing.  If the load (the headphones) has an impedance that is too different from the natural output impedance of the circuit it results in less power transfer.  So the transformers are tapped for both a high output impedance and a low one (the exact values of which only Woo audio would know) to ideally accommodate both types of loads.  As for which actually sounds better is purely a personal preference.  You don't have to use the low setting for low impedance headphones if you don't want to.  I found my WA6 to sound better set to high for every headphone I own.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

high works better for me always on the WA6-SE.
   
   
  and adding the WA2 as a pre-amp makes it sound tubier than the WA2 alone while still having the dynamics of the WA6-SE. its very nice. 
   
  it does sound tubey though, but i kinda like it, and the soundstage is huge too.


----------



## hodgjy

I say go for broke and add a tube buffer to your chain as well!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> high works better for me always on the WA6-SE.
> 
> 
> and adding the WA2 as a pre-amp makes it sound tubier than the WA2 alone while still having the dynamics of the WA6-SE. its very nice.
> ...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Impedance is resistance to current flow.  It's why headphones present different challenges for being powered by an amp, with low impedance phones demanding greater output current and high impedance ones wanting greater voltage swing.  If the load (the headphones) has an impedance that is too different from the natural output impedance of the circuit it results in less power transfer.  So the transformers are tapped for both a high output impedance and a low one (the exact values of which only Woo audio would know) to ideally accommodate both types of loads.  As for which actually sounds better is purely a personal preference.  You don't have to use the low setting for low impedance headphones if you don't want to.  I found my WA6 to sound better set to high for every headphone I own.


 


  So, if i'm right, there are 2 output transformers (one for each channel).
   
  And i think every output trasformer is made to "see" only a fixed impedance load.
   
  So how tecnically can the two transformers "switch" between the hight and low impedance loads?
   
  Don't know if my question is clear, sorry english is not my first language.


----------



## danska

Well most of you that I talked to on here before about the LCD-2/WA6 pairing were right. The WA6 really doesn't have enough juice to drive the LCD-2 properly. It sounds pretty decent, but the dynamics are really cut short. I basically have to max out the volume to get to a reasonable listening point, and they still don't have the oomph like the Lyr provides them.
   
  I think this means I'm going to be selling my WA6, in hopes for the near future of finding the WA6-SE, I know that will provide them the juice they need! If anyone is interested in it, let me know.
   
  On a side note the WA6/HD-650 combo is a better one than the Lyr/HD-650 combo.


----------



## hodgjy

My WA3/HD600 combo is better than my Asgard/HD600 combo, but not by an overly large margin.  The Asgard really drives the HD600s very, very well.
  
  Quote: 





danska said:


> On a side note the WA6/HD-650 combo is a better one than the Lyr/HD-650 combo.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





archigius said:


> So, if i'm right, there are 2 output transformers (one for each channel).
> 
> And i think every output trasformer is made to "see" only a fixed impedance load.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, without getting too into it and pushing the limits of my own understanding, basically the transformer can be tapped for more than one impedance depending upon where the tap is placed on the windings.  It's pretty normal actually.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Well, without getting too into it and pushing the limits of my own understanding, basically the transformer can be tapped for more than one impedance depending upon where the tap is placed on the windings.  It's pretty normal actually.


 


  I was not aware of this technique. I always thinked that, to allow different impedance matching, more output transformer was needed, so a 8 ohm fixed one, a 100 ohm fixed one and so on.
  Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## hodgjy

Tonight's session is starting off with:
   
  WA3 + HD600 + Pink Floyd The Wall
   
  Very nice combination.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tonight's session is starting off with:
> 
> WA3 + HD600 + Pink Floyd The Wall
> 
> Very nice combination.


 


 Hopefully the EMI remastered CD.... Best recording I've heard so far.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tonight's session is starting off with:
> 
> WA3 + HD600 + Pink Floyd The Wall
> 
> Very nice combination.


 


  One of my favorite all time albums! Great!
  I had the HD600 some time ago and i remember those as one of the most balanced headphones i owned.


----------



## hodgjy

It is.  I've rebuilt my Floyd library this year with the 2011 remasters.  They are excellent.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Hopefully the EMI remastered CD.... Best recording I've heard so far.


----------



## hodgjy

Not only are the HD600s balanced, they have a great sound stage.  Floyd plays with the sound stage, so I really like the HD600s for them.  Good imaging, too.
  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> One of my favorite all time albums! Great!
> I had the HD600 some time ago and i remember those as one of the most balanced headphones i owned.


----------



## Rawrbington

Mother is so good on the headphones


----------



## hodgjy

Have you heard the live version from the 1980-81 "Is There Anyone Out There" Wall Live double album?  That version will blow your mind.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Mother is so good on the headphones


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It is.  I've rebuilt my Floyd library this year with the 2011 remasters.  They are excellent.


 
  Totally agree. I'd add that the live shows included with the "Experience" versions are worth the extra scratch (from a music standpoint, rather than an aural experience.)


----------



## hodgjy

Absolutely.  Dark Side live is phenomenal.  
  
  Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Totally agree. I'd add that the live shows included with the "Experience" versions are worth the extra scratch (from a music standpoint, rather than an aural experience.)


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Have you heard the live version from the 1980-81 "Is There Anyone Out There" Wall Live double album?  That version will blow your mind.


 

 no.
  but i will as soon as i...
  buy it


----------



## hodgjy

Lemme know what you think of it after you hear it. I think the whole performance is legendary.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> no.
> but i will as soon as i...
> buy it


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and adding the WA2 as a pre-amp makes it sound tubier than the WA2 alone while still having the dynamics of the WA6-SE. its very nice.
> 
> it does sound tubey though, but i kinda like it, and the soundstage is huge too.


 


  I never thought about driving a woo with another woo... 
   
  the other day I put an O2 Objective on a WA6 just to hear it and was a little suprised at how well it preamped the Woo.  You get a sound thats more open and the volume is boosted quite abit.
   
  I liked it so much so, that I'm going to build another one specific to the Woo with the proper RCA outputs.   I put the O2 on there because I wanted to see how the IPAD2 using a LOD would sound because I like how the IPAD has the album art and you can just flip the song selections.  I also purchased a LOD extention from ALO for the IPAD and the combination works well.


----------



## Draygonn




----------



## shipsupt

This is so woonderful it deserves another post!
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


>


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It is.  I've rebuilt my Floyd library this year with the 2011 remasters.  They are excellent.


 

 Where have I been hiding, the entire Pink Floyd library remastered?!?!?  They are a staple of listening on the WA6SE. So now that I have mentioned Woo, I see there are Experience, Immersion and Discovery Box set (all studio recordings remastered). I think the Discovery Box Set is a must. Looking at pricing getting all the Immersion releases is quite the investment, are those worth the extra $$$$ for all the versions of the same album with 5.1 remixes and videos? I think this topic alone can support its own thread. Any impressions from fellow Woo/Floyd listeners would be most welcome. (PM so we dont derail this thread anymore than necessary).
   
  Thanks much
  Steve


----------



## San Raal

Hey Woo fans,
   
  Got 2x 596 installed on my Woo5 PSU yesterday. Everything all worked first time. Thanks to Glenn for a fast turnaround on the adapters and others helping me source some of these funky looking rectifiers.
   
  Ill post some more listening impressions as they settle in, but out of the box I am impressed by the increased bass presence and detail.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

I picked up both the Immersion Boxsets for Wish you were here and Dark side of the Moon. Waiting for The Wall.
  Pink Floyd is well before my time. But after picking up The Wall on CD last year...I had to have more.
  In any case, The immersion box sets have stuff that may or may not appeal. If you're just after the remasters, they can be had for a fraction of the cost. I think some of the stuff in the Immersion Boxes is exclusive to said boxes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Hey Woo fans,
> 
> Got 2x 596 installed on my Woo5 PSU yesterday. Everything all worked first time. Thanks to Glenn for a fast turnaround on the adapters and others helping me source some of these funky looking rectifiers.
> 
> Ill post some more listening impressions as they settle in, but out of the box I am impressed by the increased bass presence and detail.


 

 Dropping the *F*-Bomb.:
   
  Funky? I could see that... and accept that... from another's perspective. Though, at first glance, I found the rectifier's look to be fantastique! At first listen,_ higher fidelity_...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> omg just plugged my T1 in. OMG!!!!!!
> 
> sounds even better than just plugging them into the WA2.


 








  This is precisely the time, rhyme & reason to revisit Janos Starker @ 24/96 kHz._ If you're going to measure..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Hi, i've a question for Woo 6 SE owners: how are the LOW and HIGH output done?
> 
> I mean: is there a resistor in the LOW output or maybe there are two different impedance output transformers?
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. @ 25 ohms, I find my Denon D5000; D7000 to have the same size soundstage in both High & Low jacks. However, in Low impedance there's slightly more gain; more low level/micro detail can be heard; more air but slightly less slam. In high impedance, there's less gain, more slam, full-bodied but with more low level/micro details are obscured; reduced. But some recordings can sound more musical; fun, on the high side if the recordings are thin, problematic.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> So, if i'm right, there are 2 output transformers (one for each channel).
> 
> And i think every output trasformer is made to "see" only a fixed impedance load.
> 
> ...


 

 archigius, I, for one, find your communication here in the forum to be quite good. And encourage you to keep expressing yourself in these spaces.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





johnman1116 said:


> Sorry im not in the Woo Audio club yet but DEFINITELY thinking about getting one ( WA6 or WA6se, still not too sure...) pairing with hd650 or hd600 which would be amazing. im cant wait....
> anyways, i love head-fi discovered a new band The Company Band. Freakin awesome!
> Thanks guys!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Shopping is so much fun!  What headphones are you planning to get?  It might influence your woo choice.


 

 johman1116, in addition to your potential headphone influencing your amp selection, I'd throw in your musical preferences and listening style. Your enthusiasm alone for _The Company Band _might suggest you like rockin' out! The _Special Edition_ is very dynamic. Could very well be the amp you're looking for. Can't tell you any more than that, as I've never heard of the band. But then, I never been out of the house, so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also, buying pre-owned could bring you excellent value. Should you decide on the WA6, you may want to look at fellow member danska's '6' which will be coming up for sale shortly...


----------



## thrak

speaking of The Floyd... i am a huge fan and would have to say that they are in large part responsible for my obsession with music (and therefore with audio gear as well), esp. Dark Side of The Moon.  i consider this to be one of, if not the greatest recordings ever made (imo only, of course).  i.e. if i had to choose a single desert island disc, this would be it.  as such i, like many others, have amassed quite a few versions of this masterpiece and tend to use the MFSL Gold Disc as my reference recording for testing audio gear.  in any case, i have just got my grubby little hands on a fresh 24/96 transfer of Alan Parson's original analog master tapes in both quad and stereo (DVD-A format).  listening now through speakers at low volume and it is certainly a different mix than what we are used to with an absolutely HUGE DR!.  i don't think i've seen a better example of what DR compression sounds like than by comparing this to any of the commercial versions.  i will have to break out PureMusic and test it (i think my demo expired already).  i think the real sound test will come later on the woo at normal listening levels...


----------



## hodgjy

Mine, too!  It took progrock to a new stratosphere. 
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> speaking of The Floyd... i am a huge fan and would have to say that they are in large part responsible for my obsession with music (and therefore with audio gear as well), esp. Dark Side of The Moon.  *i consider this to be one of, if not the greatest recordings ever made (imo only, of course)*.  i.e. if i had to choose a single desert island disc, this would be it.  as such i, like many others, have amassed quite a few versions of this masterpiece and tend to use the MFSL Gold Disc as my reference recording for testing audio gear.  in any case, i have just got my grubby little hands on a fresh 24/96 transfer of Alan Parson's original analog master tapes in both quad and stereo (DVD-A format).  listening now through speakers at low volume and it is certainly a different mix than what we are used to with an absolutely HUGE DR!.  i don't think i've seen a better example of what DR compression sounds like than by comparing this to any of the commercial versions.  i will have to break out PureMusic and test it (i think my demo expired already).  i think the real sound test will come later on the woo at normal listening levels...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to evanescence right now with my WA6-SE / WA2 combo... omg, the soundstage on the k701 is huge! and the vocals are just so warm and rich. something i'd never think the k701 was capable of doing...


----------



## hodgjy

Properly amped, the K701s are hard to beat!
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> listening to evanescence right now with my WA6-SE / WA2 combo... omg, the soundstage on the k701 is huge! and the vocals are just so warm and rich. something i'd never think the k701 was capable of doing...


----------



## jerico

Took a vacation day today, and the wife is working in the living room, so I have the turntable routed to the Woo in the bedroom so I don't bug her. Spinning Thelonius Monk/Alone In SanFrancisco right now.

Even fed via the single-end input, the 22 sounds great.

Speaking of which, I've swapped DACs on occasion, connecting my Brick to the 22 single-ended, and that sounded great too.


----------



## hodgjy

That sounds marvelous.
  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> *Took a vacation day today, and the wife is working in the living room, so I have the turntable routed to the Woo in the bedroom so I don't bug her. Spinning Thelonius Monk/Alone In SanFrancisco right now.*
> Even fed via the single-end input, the 22 sounds great.
> Speaking of which, I've swapped DACs on occasion, connecting my Brick to the 22 single-ended, and that sounded great too.


----------



## jerico

hodgjy said:


> That sounds marvelous.




I agree! And it SOUNDS marvelous too!

I've said it before around these parts, and I'm sure to again, but: vinyl + tubes = happy times.


----------



## hodgjy

The best phonostages have tubes.  Not a coincidence.
  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> I agree! And it SOUNDS marvelous too!
> I've said it before around these parts, and I'm sure to again, but: *vinyl + tubes = happy times.*


----------



## jerico

I've never had a tubed phono stage - I needed a small-footprint phono pre, and tubed ones are tough to find small. That said, I go giddy when I see a Manley Steelhead. One day I'd like to DIY a maxxed out K&K, but I'm not sure I am nearly skilled enough for it.

On to Herbie Hancock/Mwandishi. I'm breaking in a new cartridge here - not even at 10hour mark, but my Woo is leading the charge gallantly!


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jerico said:


> I agree! And it SOUNDS marvelous too!
> I've said it before around these parts, and I'm sure to again, but: vinyl + tubes = happy times.


 


  For you and me both! I'm waiting for my new Linn LP12 motor to arrive, I can't believe I was listening to the other one, it feels terrible when I spin it. Can't wait to get back to vinyl bliss!


----------



## danska

Does anyone know why, when I plugged in my Westone ES5 into my WA6 I get a ton of hum? Put the switch on low, hum isn't apparent with other headphones. Is it because they are just to sensitive?


----------



## hodgjy

In general, IEMs don't pair all that well with tubes.  By definition, tubes are noisy.  Some are noisier than others.  Since IEMs are so sensitive, they are more likely to pick up the intrinsic noise of the tubes than are open headphones, for example.
   
  That's not to say all hope is lost.  Are your tubes new?  Some tubes will howl for 30+ hours and then settle down.  Some tubes will hum forever, so perhaps play around with different tubes and find some that aren't noisy.  In the end, you'll probably be able to find a tube combination that doesn't hum very much, or at least a combo that you can live with.
  
  Quote: 





danska said:


> Does anyone know why, when I plugged in my Westone ES5 into my WA6 I get a ton of hum? Put the switch on low, hum isn't apparent with other headphones. Is it because they are just to sensitive?


----------



## jerico

Was the other motor an original? I'm sure it wasn't too shabby either way! When is new one due?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> Does anyone know why, when I plugged in my Westone ES5 into my WA6 I get a ton of hum? Put the switch on low, hum isn't apparent with other headphones. Is it because they are just to sensitive?


 

 What tubes you are using?  I did use JH13 with WA6 and WA22 and love the combo.
   


  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> In general, IEMs don't pair all that well with tubes.  By definition, *tubes are noisy.  Some are noisier than others*.  Since IEMs are so sensitive, they are more likely to pick up the intrinsic noise of the tubes than are open headphones, for example.
> 
> That's not to say all hope is lost.  Are your tubes new?  Some tubes will howl for 30+ hours and then settle down.  Some tubes will hum forever, so perhaps play around with different tubes and find some that aren't noisy.  In the end, you'll probably be able to find a tube combination that doesn't hum very much, or at least a combo that you can live with.


 


  Agreed


----------



## jerico

danska said:


> Does anyone know why, when I plugged in my Westone ES5 into my WA6 I get a ton of hum? Put the switch on low, hum isn't apparent with other headphones. Is it because they are just to sensitive?




I just tried plugging my UE TripleFi 10s into my Woo - they don't hum, but they're much louder than my LCD2s at the same spot on the volume knob. FWIW.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What tubes you are using?  I did use JH13 with WA6 and WA22 and love the combo.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed


 


  I just tried with my 6F8G drivers, didn't try the other sets I have. They tested like new about 100 hours ago, so I don't think its a life issue at all. I tried the stock driver tubes with my UM3X before and didn't have the issue, know that I think about it. I wasn't planning on doing a lot of listening, but read somewhere a while back that someone really liked the pairing of the WA6 and ES5. Now I'm on the road again, and the Protector/ES5 combo is sounding good, other than the liquid in my left ear from my cold, talk about a veil!


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Was the other motor an original? I'm sure it wasn't too shabby either way! When is new one due?


 


  Yeah the other motor was an original. I have a 60hz version from the late 80's, so I had to get some parts to switch my Hercules II over to a 50hz. I couldn't hear to motor noise over the speakers or anything, but every time I would start it up, it would squak at me! I figured at some point it would start causing audible noise (or maybe it was already), so I went ahead and ordered a new one. My local Linn dealer screwed my roommate over when setting up his deck, so I ordered one from the UK. Should be arriving any day. Then I gotta do a little suspension tweaking and I'm good to go. I've missed the world of low-output moving coils so much for the last 10 weeks!


----------



## jerico

@danska -

10 weeks! Eek. I'm sure it'll be worth the wait though.

I'm on my third cart (Soundsmith Zephyr) now with my current table, and it's a high output moving iron. I also have a LOMC (Shelter 501mk2) and a HOMC(Sumiko Blackbird), all about the same price level. The Blackbird and 501 have both been retipped by Soundsmith.

I notice that (1) for the 2 that were retipped, both sounded better after the retip (which led me to choose the Zephyr as 3rd cart) and (2) I like the LOMC least (both before and after the retip). 

I don't know if that means I just prefer high output carts, or that I'd need to spend a lot more on a LOMC than I have, but I'm reluctant to drop mad $ on carts - I'm too anxious about killing one during setup or something. 

Ok, back OT... 

(edited for typo)


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> I just tried with my 6F8G drivers, didn't try the other sets I have. They tested like new about 100 hours ago, so I don't think its a life issue at all. I tried the stock driver tubes with my UM3X before and didn't have the issue, know that I think about it. I wasn't planning on doing a lot of listening, but read somewhere a while back that someone really liked the pairing of the WA6 and ES5. Now I'm on the road again, and the Protector/ES5 combo is sounding good, other than the liquid in my left ear from my cold, talk about a veil!


 


  The 6F8G with an adapter is very noisy, it you move the antenna wire away rectifier it will be less noise.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The 6F8G with an adapter is very noisy, it you move the antenna wire away rectifier it will be less noise.


 


  Good to know. Thanks!


----------



## hodgjy

Yes it is.  It is said to be the most euphonic of the Woo offerings.
  
  Quote: 





taixuchen said:


> I've heard the woo audio wa22 today. I can only say the sound is very impressive. It's warm and Hi-end. Definitely give a 5 star.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yes it is.  It is said to be the most euphonic of the Woo offerings.


 


  even more than the WA6-SE + WA2 combo i'm doing right now?


----------



## hodgjy

That I can't say.  Your combo does sound very euphonic, though.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> even more than the WA6-SE + WA2 combo i'm doing right now?


----------



## Ahzari

So I just received my WA6SE and been playing around with it a bit.. I get quite a bit of "hum" from my unit (at all volumes). I had the WA6 and didn't experience this, could it be the tubes? I'm currently running the 6FD7 with tube damper rings. I noticed there was a little less hum with the stock raytheon 6EW7s but still noticeable.
   
  Any advice?


----------



## Draygonn

Vinyl noob here. Is a phono stage to bring the analog signal to line-input levels an amp can use?


----------



## hodgjy

You got it.  Although, it's still lower than your typical 2 volt cd signal, but it's what amps or preamps will use in the pathway.
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Vinyl noob here. Is a phono stage to bring the analog signal to line-input levels an amp can use?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So I just received my WA6SE and been playing around with it a bit.. I get quite a bit of "hum" from my unit (at all volumes). I had the WA6 and didn't experience this, could it be the tubes? I'm currently running the 6FD7 with tube damper rings. I noticed there was a little less hum with the stock raytheon 6EW7s but still noticeable.
> 
> Any advice?


 


  i have raytheon 6ew7 + sophia and i only hear a bit of noise when i raise the knob like to 2 o clock. even then, its very little.
   
  my WA2 on the other hand, is completely silent the whole way through.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So I just received my WA6SE and been playing around with it a bit.. I get quite a bit of "hum" from my unit (at all volumes). I had the WA6 and didn't experience this, could it be the tubes? I'm currently running the 6FD7 with tube damper rings. I noticed there was a little less hum with the stock raytheon 6EW7s but still noticeable.
> 
> Any advice?


 


  In the headphones or outside?  If it is outside, my WA22 sounded like a refrigerator when I first got it.  I replaced the rectifier with a Mullard NOS one and it is sillent now.  If you can, replace the tubes.
  If it is inside, disconnect the DAC/source, then see if you still have the problem.  If you do, it could be the tubes.
   
  Edit:  You can also try different plugs in the house, turning off tv's, turning of lights, esp. fluorescent lights.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> In the headphones or outside?  If it is outside, my WA22 sounded like a refrigerator when I first got it.  I replaced the rectifier with a Mullard NOS one and it is sillent now.  If you can, replace the tubes.
> If it is inside, disconnect the DAC/source, then see if you still have the problem.  If you do, it could be the tubes.


 


  like a refrigerator?!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> In the headphones or outside?  If it is outside, my WA22 sounded like a refrigerator when I first got it.  I replaced the rectifier with a Mullard NOS one and it is sillent now.  If you can, replace the tubes.
> If it is inside, disconnect the DAC/source, then see if you still have the problem.  If you do, it could be the tubes.
> 
> Edit:  You can also try different plugs in the house, turning off tv's, turning of lights, esp. fluorescent lights.


 


  haha, nono in the headphones using the HE500s is lighter, using my Denon D7000s its really really loud... 
   
  EDIT: My idecco2 was causing interference with the WA6SE so I just rearranged my set-up and now everything is crystal clear!


----------



## hodgjy

I have some power tubes for my WA3 that sound like a deep fryer. 
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> like a refrigerator?!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have some power tubes for my WA3 that sound like a deep fryer.


----------



## hodgjy

Ya, they don't see the amp anymore.  It's a shame, they sound great, but the sound of frying French fries is too much.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


----------



## Silent One

Tea, anyone? I know it's a lil' late in the evening for you, jc9394 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But, in the spirit of Woo mates... anyway, back in a moment with a bowl of perfectly prepared green tea (Huang Shan Mao Feng Reserve).


----------



## danska

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You got it.  Although, it's still lower than your typical 2 volt cd signal, but it's what amps or preamps will use in the pathway.


 


  They also provide a RIAA equalization, without that, things wouldn't sound right.Typical phono stages give you somewhere around 40db of gain, some like my Jolida JD9 give upwards of 95db of gain. 40dB is plenty for a moving-magnet type which has a voltage of lets say 5.0mV, 70dB or so is needed typically when your cartridge output (Low-output moving coil) is around 0.3mV. More complex ps give the user the option of selecting different gain amounts, and allow you to "load" the cartridge with resistance and capacitance settings.


----------



## hodgjy

I enjoy green tea several times a week.  In summer, I brew it then ice it.  I winter, I drink it warm.  Cheers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tea, anyone? I know it's a lil' late in the evening for you, jc9394
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> In general, IEMs don't pair all that well with tubes.  By definition, tubes are noisy.  Some are noisier than others.  Since IEMs are so sensitive, they are more likely to pick up the intrinsic noise of the tubes than are open headphones, for example.
> 
> That's not to say all hope is lost.  Are your tubes new?  Some tubes will howl for 30+ hours and then settle down.  Some tubes will hum forever, so perhaps play around with different tubes and find some that aren't noisy.  In the end, you'll probably be able to find a tube combination that doesn't hum very much, or at least a combo that you can live with.


 


  My Shure EC3's didn't make the cut... and the hum nearly cut my ear! This was with the Raytheon 6SN7W/EML 5U4G pairing. This three second demonstration left a bad taste in my mouth. I left the Woo to play on without me, Denon's plugged in for the next four hours. That's how haunted the experience left me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My Shure EC3's didn't make the cut... and the hum nearly cut my ear! This was with the Raytheon 6SN7W/EML 5U4G pairing. This three second demonstration left a bad taste in my mouth. I left the Woo to play on without me, Denon's plugged in for the next four hours. That's how haunted the experience left me.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My Shure EC3's didn't make the cut... and the hum nearly cut my ear! This was with the Raytheon 6SN7W/EML 5U4G pairing. This three second demonstration left a bad taste in my mouth. I left the Woo to play on without me, Denon's plugged in for the next four hours. That's how haunted the experience left me.


 

 Glad to know I wasn't the only one! I plugged in my Sennheisers afterwards and watched a TV show!


----------



## hodgjy

I enjoy earbuds, but I've never even entertained the thought of putting my Woo goodness through them.  I'm pretty sure my WA3 would knock any earbud or IEM into next week.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> My Shure EC3's didn't make the cut... and the hum nearly cut my ear! This was with the Raytheon 6SN7W/EML 5U4G pairing. This three second demonstration left a bad taste in my mouth. I left the Woo to play on without me, Denon's plugged in for the next four hours. That's how haunted the experience left me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> even more than the WA6-SE + WA2 combo i'm doing right now?


 
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That I can't say.  Your combo does sound very euphonic, though.


 

 Not sure I can say for sure either. I do feel tube selection could sway things a bit. Last year, I spent decent time listening to the WA22 via WA2 as pre-amp but the '22' was in single-ended mode. Then months later, spent time listening to the WA22 in full balanced mode. Both configurations were euphonic. And though I brought my music on a drive to mikemalter's listening room, I brought the wrong formatted drive. Have my music library on both for Windows and Mac, but in all my excitement to reach his house... I forgot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hearing the exact same material in both members set ups could have made for a more accurate recollection. Though slightly different in depth, background and euphonics, both were pleasing to the ear. In summary, you're doing just fine Dubstep Girl. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing of note: I was seated in a chair listening to the WA22/HD800 in balanced mode. It might as well been on a plush living room couch - the soundstage was at once huge & dreamy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Glad to know I wasn't the only one! I plugged in my Sennheisers afterwards and watched a TV show!


 

 I never "Cycle" my Woo, so why not just let it run... sans 'Silent One'!


----------



## Rawrbington

i just leave mine on if im gonna take a break to eat or perhaps watch an hour of tv.
  my buddy insists that warm up is the most damaging to the tubes and im better off leaving it on.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I enjoy earbuds, but I've never even entertained the thought of putting my Woo goodness through them.  I'm pretty sure my WA3 would knock any earbud or IEM into next week.


 

 WA3--
   
  The little one seems to be very flexible, don't doubt it for a minute! After hearing jc9394 and others discuss the matter of IEM's a few months back inside their Woo's, I did it out of curiosity only. Can't envision why I would want to have a fully blown session, though...


----------



## hodgjy

This is highly debated, so I'm not going to add to it.  But, usually, I turn on my amp when I get home from work.  When I get around to listening to it, I listen to it.  It may be 5 minutes after turning it on, or it may be several hours later.  At least it's nice and toasty by then.  I let my amp run all Saturday or Sunday if I know I'll be using those days.  I power off Saturday night when I'm sleeping.  It's more out of convenience for me and sound quality than it is anything else.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i just leave mine on if im gonna take a break to eat or perhaps watch an hour of tv.
> my buddy insists that warm up is the most damaging to the tubes and im better off leaving it on.


----------



## hodgjy

Good to know.  Although, all the earbuds I own are on the cheap side and wouldn't do the WA3 justice.  I got them for iPod listening while exercise, mainly.  Or, too block annoying noise at work.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> WA3--
> 
> The little one seems to be very flexible, don't doubt it for a minute! After hearing jc9394 and others discuss the matter of IEM's a few months back inside their Woo's, I did it out of curiosity only. Can't envision why I would want to have a fully blown session, though...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Good to know.  Although, all the earbuds I own are on the cheap side and wouldn't do the WA3 justice.  I got them for iPod listening while exercise, mainly.  Or, too block annoying noise at work.


 


   
  +1
   
  i only use IEMs for portable/gym


----------



## hodgjy

Holy crap, my grammar is bad tonight.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Let's try this again. 
   
  I got them for my iPod while exercising.  Or, to block annoying noise while I'm at work.
   
  Geez.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Good to know.  Although, all the earbuds I own are on the cheap side and wouldn't do the WA3 justice.  I got them for iPod listening while exercise, mainly.  Or, too block annoying noise at work.


----------



## Rawrbington

ohh hooray!
  i finished getting "Is There Anybody Out There" remaster in flac.
   
  i know what im doing after dinner!


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet.  I hope you like it.  I sure do.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ohh hooray!
> i finished getting "Is There Anybody Out There" remaster in flac.
> 
> i know what im doing after dinner!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i just leave mine on if im gonna take a break to eat or perhaps watch an hour of tv.
> my buddy insists that warm up is the most damaging to the tubes and im better off leaving it on.


 

 Only the best--
   
  On a slightly different note, I am amused (sometimes), when members jump in to tell me my Woo only needs five minutes to warm up. It is well known here that I often have one, two or three hour warm ups. Most of the time it is one hour. It really depends on two things: schedule and real-time events. The two can clash sometimes despite the best of plans.
   
  Perhaps, I would be better understood if I explained that my sessions are planned. Even impromptu sessions have advanced inklings.  However, due to the nature of my responsibilities, some sessions can run tight; get interrupted; end prematurely.
   
  So, even though my Woo can technically be considered warm in five minutes and this could very well be tube dependent, the amp gets better through 60-90-120 minutes. _Come "On song" as they say_. But check this out, if I have a shortened session and can only listen for 30 to 60 minutes, why would I want to hear while it (the amp) before full sonic bloom?
   
  Extensive warm ups allow me to hear the amp at it's best, whether I can sit in for six hours or six minutes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> haha, nono in the headphones using the HE500s is lighter, using my Denon D7000s its really really loud...
> 
> EDIT: My idecco2 was causing interference with the WA6SE so I just rearranged my set-up and now everything is crystal clear!


 
   
  Often times, it's environmental.


----------



## hodgjy

I agree with 100% of what you said.  Sometimes, I'm just too impatient to listen to my WA3, so I dive in after only 5 minutes. 
   
  However, I have found that my Asgard is actually more fastidious than my WA3 with regards to temperature.  That sucker can take hours to come into its glory.  It sort of defeats one of the purposes for which I bought it.  I knew my WA3 is best served for extended listening periods, or at least being left on for several hours.  I wanted a solid state amp to help me get my quick fix when I needed one.  Oh well, great amp and I like it very much.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Only the best--
> 
> On a slightly different note, I am amused (sometimes), when members jump in to tell me my Woo only needs five minutes to warm up. It is well known here that I often have one, two or three hour warm ups. Most of the time it is one hour. It really depends on two things: schedule and real-time events. The two can clash sometimes despite the best of plans.
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tea, anyone? I know it's a lil' late in the evening for you, jc9394
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I enjoy tea in the night as much as wine, especially good green tea.  Finally tried the Huang Shan Mao Feng Reserve, picked up 2 oz over the weekend.  I do like it but it is too light for me, it is definitely great tea for the night.

  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I enjoy green tea several times a week.  In summer, I brew it then ice it.  I winter, I drink it warm.  Cheers.


 


  I only drink tea hot if I have to brew it myself.


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I never "Cycle" my Woo, so why not just let it run... sans 'Silent One'!


 

 Mee too, always leave it on and feed it with music when I go watch TV for do something in short period of time.


----------



## danska

I like a nice single malt when in session with my Woo. Recently I've discovered Bruichladdich, which has a really interesting history.
   
  The Bruichladdich 16 year Pomerol and some Stacey Kent over my WA6/HD 650 combo were sonic bliss a few nights back before I got my cold! I know there is some other Scotch fans on here too.
   
  Tea is right up my alley at the moment though, anyone have a good technique for getting liquid out of your ears?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not sure I can say for sure either. I do feel tube selection could sway things a bit. Last year, I spent decent time listening to the WA22 via WA2 as pre-amp but the '22' was in single-ended mode. Then months later, spent time listening to the WA22 in full balanced mode. Both configurations were euphonic. And though I brought my music on a drive to mikemalter's listening room, I brought the wrong formatted drive. Have my music library on both for Windows and Mac, but in all my excitement to reach his house... I forgot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  X2, the HD800 pair very well with tubes.  As much I like the beta22, I do prefer the HD800 with WA22.


  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> i only use IEMs for portable/gym


 

 Not sure how you can workout with IEM, you can hear your heartbeat and foot thumps...


----------



## hodgjy

I've been known to knock back some malted barley drinks, like a good lager, while listening to my WA3.
  
  Quote: 





danska said:


> I like a nice single malt when in session with my Woo.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> like a refrigerator?!


 

  
  Yeah, it hummed rather loud, or at least I thought it was loud.  It sounded like the humming you hear from a refrigerator.  Maybe not as loud.  I changed the rectifier and the hum is gone.  I still have some microphonics that I hope will go away with new tubes.
   
   
  Now everyone is going to make me go make tea.  I like oolong/black cold in the summer and green/oolong warm in the winter.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> I like a nice single malt when in session with my Woo. Recently I've discovered Bruichladdich, which has a really interesting history.
> 
> The Bruichladdich 16 year Pomerol and some Stacey Kent over my WA6/HD 650 combo were sonic bliss a few nights back before I got my cold! I know there is some other Scotch fans on here too.
> 
> Tea is right up my alley at the moment though, anyone have a good technique for getting liquid out of your ears?


 


  now you are talking... try this.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> now you are talking... try this.


 


  I have the 12 year from Yamazaki in my cabinet! Very good stuff!!! Worth the extra cash?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I agree with 100% of what you said.  Sometimes, I'm just too impatient to listen to my WA3, so I dive in after only 5 minutes.
> 
> However, I have found that my Asgard is actually more fastidious than my WA3 with regards to temperature.  That sucker can take hours to come into its glory.  It sort of defeats one of the purposes for which I bought it.  I knew my WA3 is best served for extended listening periods, or at least being left on for several hours.  I wanted a solid state amp to help me get my quick fix when I needed one.  Oh well, great amp and I like it very much.


 

 "Quick fix" is the very reason I picked up the Pioneer SX-650. I can suddenly leave the room; house if something came up without worrying about time on the clock!


----------



## hodgjy

I do have my Yamaha RX-V467, which I mainly have for tv and movies, but I occasionally hook my cans into it.  I think that may become my quick fix rig, although it is more dry than the Asgard, even when the Asgard isn't fully warmed up.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> "Quick fix" is the very reason I picked up the Pioneer SX-650. I can suddenly leave the room; house if something came up without worrying about time on the clock!


----------



## Rawrbington

dry is a good word for it.
  my A-S500 is kinda dry too.  sterile.
  the speakers sound great but the HP jack isn't the best i've heard.
   
  does it come off a little bright to you?
   
  my vintage yam is a little smoother or richer than the modern one(out of the HP jack that is)


----------



## hodgjy

Yep.  I'd say the headphone jack is drier than the speaker output.  Although, I'm happy with my speaker output.  I used the automatic parametric equalization, and the response is now pretty flat and fairly smooth.  Overall, Yamahas tend to lean to the bright side, but it's not offensive.  I really like Yamaha products.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> dry is a good word for it.
> my A-S500 is kinda dry too.  sterile.
> the speakers sound great but the HP jack isn't the best i've heard.
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> I have the 12 year from Yamazaki in my cabinet! Very good stuff!!! Worth the extra cash?


 


   
  To me it is worth, I like it better than McCallan 18.  It is like getting the TS BGRP or be happy with the Treasures.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> I like a nice single malt when in session with my Woo. Recently I've discovered Bruichladdich, which has a really interesting history.
> 
> The Bruichladdich 16 year Pomerol and some Stacey Kent over my WA6/HD 650 combo were sonic bliss a few nights back before I got my cold! I know there is some other Scotch fans on here too.
> 
> *Tea is right up my alley at the moment though, anyone have a good technique for getting liquid out of your ears?*


 

 Yes, I do... _more liquid. _





  For maintenance (in between luxuriating annually at the audiologist's office), I use Debrox Drops earwax removal aid. And a soft rubber bulb ear syringe for flushing. Buy one, fill it with warm water and inject your ear, then tilt your audiophile head so the ear may drain. Preferably over the sink and voila!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> "Quick fix" is the very reason I picked up the Pioneer SX-650. I can suddenly leave the room; house if something came up without worrying about time on the clock!


 


  I need to find a high power vintage Pioneer, the Marantz is not a good match with LCD-2 but it does very well with HD800.


  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I do have my Yamaha RX-V467, which I mainly have for tv and movies, but I occasionally hook my cans into it.  I think that may become my quick fix rig, although it is more dry than the Asgard, even when the Asgard isn't fully warmed up.


 


  I never liked the Asgard, not sure where all the fuss come from.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, I do... _more liquid. _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  I prefer my sexy audiologist take care of it, visit her twice a year.  The kicker is my insurance covers it.


----------



## hodgjy

It's a competent little amp.  I think for the price, it works well.  It leans to the slightly warm and smooth side, so I like it.  It has its flaws, but it's good enough for me.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I never liked the Asgard, not sure where all the fuss come from.


----------



## Rawrbington

is the marantz too warm for the lcd2?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> ...The kicker is my insurance covers it.


 

 I'm with you! Though, I pay out of pocket to see her willingly, I benefit from having the ability to write off other things on the 'schedule c.' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 However, when I was in the trade (Home/Car Audio), it was a write-off. Sometimes, just to be protective, I'd go monthly or every other month. 
   
  In fact, she can be credited with saving my hearing; first one to analyze my work hours/off hours and the countless demos I engaged in. And suggested patterns of time off/away from listening to music. It was at this point she explained the benefits of allowing my inner ear to expand. Thus, I started rationing when being "On" and being "Off" with audio.
   
  To this day, I pick and choose how loud and how long to listen to music based on exposure to noise earlier in the day/week and make sure to take some days off.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> is the marantz too warm for the lcd2?


 


  yes, most vintage Marantz is on the warm side.


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm with you! Though, I pay out of pocket to see her willingly, I benefit from having the ability to write off other things on the 'schedule c.'


 

 I remember you told me on this, for sure I will read it up this year...


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I prefer my sexy audiologist take care of it, visit her twice a year.  The kicker is my insurance covers it.


 

 No fair you have a sexy audiologist, I want one!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> No fair you have a sexy audiologist, I want one!


 


  You just need to go find one, I'm pretty sure there are a lot in Seattle.  Maybe take a drive up north?  I know there are quite a few...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I never liked the Asgard, not sure where all the fuss come from.


 

 For $250, its hard to beat in that range though. I thought it was quite good based on the price-to-performance ratio.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> For $250, its hard to beat in that range though. I thought it was quite good based on the price-to-performance ratio.


 


  I heard that about O2 too.  I did purchased/auditioned the Asgard and don't like it with any of my headphones and resell it after less than a week of ownership.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> *I heard that about O2 too.*  I did purchased/auditioned the Asgard and don't like it with any of my headphones and resell it after less than a week of ownership.


 


  Good point...I haven't heard the O2. Looks very interesting!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Good point...I haven't heard the O2. Looks very interesting!


 


  Yeah, I almost pulled the trigger this afternoon.  For $155, it is worth a try but I need to spend the money on a table tomorrow.  I'm sure I will get one really soon for work if it is that good.  gamma1>O2


----------



## hodgjy

It has good synergy with Beyers and Senns, which makes sense, because Schiit said they voiced it using those cans.  Since those are my cans, I'm happy.  Other cans maybe won't work so well with it.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did purchased/auditioned the Asgard and don't like it with any of my headphones and resell it after less than a week of ownership


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yeah, I almost pulled the trigger this afternoon.  For $155, it is worth a try but I need to spend the money on a table tomorrow.  I'm sure I will get one really soon for work if it is that good.  gamma1>O2


 


  I would too, but I'm currently keeping my eye on a GS-1 (w/DACT attenuator).
   
  Got too many cans so I'm likely selling my HE-6s and Lyr in the next few days and I like the idea of a nice SS option for my WA22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I would too, but I'm currently keeping my eye on a GS-1 (w/DACT attenuator).
> 
> Got too many cans so I'm likely selling my HE-6s and Lyr in the next few days and I like the idea of a nice SS option for my WA22.


 


  I like Justin's offer too, love the Pico amp/Dac, slim, and GLite.  When I was looking for a SS, I too considered the GSX (too lazy to change headphone cables to SE or use an adapter) but finally decided to go with beta22.  GSX is one of the amp I'm still waiting for a chance to audit.


----------



## Silent One

Self edit.:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I would too, but I'm currently keeping my eye on a GS-1 (w/DACT attenuator).
> 
> Got too many cans so I'm likely selling my HE-6s and Lyr in the next few days and I like the idea of a nice SS option for my WA22.


 


  What was life like with the HE-6's? Is the hype warranted, properly driven?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What was life like with the HE-6's? Is the hype warranted, properly driven?


 

 Absolutely. They are amongst the most transparent cans I've heard...simply deserve to compete with the very best. Actually they are so good, I prefer them powered by my Lyr than my T1/WA22 combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not by much, but still enough to notice.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Absolutely. They are amongst the most transparent cans I've heard...simply deserve to compete with the very best. Actually they are so good, I prefer them powered by my Lyr than my T1/WA22 combo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 

 Yep...they are that good IMO. Rob (Skylab) recently sold off his T1s and kept his HE-6s.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Absolutely. They are amongst the most transparent cans I've heard...simply deserve to compete with the very best. Actually they are so good, I prefer them powered by my Lyr than my T1/WA22 combo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Then I've but one question remaining... I need something that can shovel a bit, can it it excavate Bass? Also, your brief thoughts on LCD-2 vs HE-6?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Then I've but one question remaining... I need something that can shovel a bit, can it it excavate Bass?


 

 I prefer its bass impact and overall presentation over the T1s and HD800s. I think the HD800s have better quality of bass, but the HE-6's have the more pleasing presentation of impact and definition to my ears. The FR graph shows that it can go very deep:
   
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE6.pdf
   
  Pretty flat down to 20Hz.


----------



## hodgjy

I saw another for sale listing by Rob.  He said he's been listening to headphones a lot less lately.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Yep...they are that good IMO. Rob (Skylab) recently sold off his T1s and kept his HE-6s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I saw another for sale listing by Rob.  He said he's been listening to headphones a lot less lately.


 
  Once my kids are older (now 7 and 3), I'll be back to speaker much more often.


----------



## hodgjy

Awesome.  My nieces are 8 and 5.  Cool kids.  No kids of my own yet.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Once my kids are older (now 7 and 3), I'll be back to speaker much more often.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Awesome.  My nieces are 8 and 5.  Cool kids.  No kids of my own yet.


 

 Love my kids...but they did put a temporary end to my speaker audio...so I found Head-Fi.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> even more than the WA6-SE + WA2 combo i'm doing right now?


 

 I was just thinking, Clayton SF has used his WA2 as a pre-amp with a multitude of amps. You should PM him for insight.


----------



## danska

It appears I already have a buyer for my WA6. Didn't even have to post an ad for it!
   
  Anyone selling an SE soon?
   
  I'm curious to know what the sonic differences between a maxxed WA6 and a standard SE would be? I'm guessing it's a little hard to find a maxxed SE, since they are no longer made..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





danska said:


> It appears I already have a buyer for my WA6. Didn't even have to post an ad for it!
> 
> Anyone selling an SE soon?
> 
> I'm curious to know what the sonic differences between a maxxed WA6 and a standard SE would be? I'm guessing it's a little hard to find a maxxed SE, since they are no longer made..


 


   
  i don't think many people have owned or listened to both long enough to give a definite answer (besides jack himself of course).


----------



## Silent One

Opportunity costs--
   
  When ordering the _Special Edition_, I thought about going "Maxxed" but I didn't like the math. Upgraded WA6SE or basic WA22? Upgraded WA22 or basic WA5LE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> It appears I already have a buyer for my WA6. Didn't even have to post an ad for it!
> 
> Anyone selling an SE soon?
> 
> I'm curious to know what the sonic differences between a maxxed WA6 and a standard SE would be? I'm guessing it's a little hard to find a maxxed SE, since they are no longer made..


 


  For starters, dannie01 (the original poster) "maxxed" his own WA6SE. indydieselnut, who returned to posting here, started off with a maxxed WA6SE; may have heard stock versions during that time since then. And a number of former posters returned their amps for Jack to upgrade well after the fact, not at purchasing. 
   
  Reading the early pages of this thread will reveal much... or could. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though, Google would be quicker! (WA6SE vs WA6SE maxxed)


----------



## danska

Yeah I actually remember reading a comparison, and what was said is that an SE is better than a WA6 maxxed, mainly attributed to dynamics and power output. What I did find is that it might be better to consider the WA22 for the used price of a SE maxxed. Problem is I don't have any other balanced devices, and am not looking to upgrade sources at this time. Have to consider this all for a while, don't want to be woo-less for too long!
   
  A real dilemma! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This is all in consideration of driving the LCD-2..
   
  Edited*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Yeah I actually remember reading a comparison, and what was said is that an SE is better than a WA6 maxxed, mainly attributed to dynamics and power output. What I did find is that it might be better to consider the WA22 for the used price of a SE maxxed. Problem is I don't have any other balanced devices, and am not looking to upgrade sources at this time. Have to consider this all for a while, don't want to be woo-less for too long!
> 
> A real dilemma!
> 
> ...


 

 I wouldn't consider a '22' at this time (if I were you). You'd be paying for the privilege of using only *half* of the WA22; better options out there than that. I hope you're not Woo-less for too long, either. Or you might have to send that EML Glass back down "Interstate 5..."


----------



## Ahzari

My new SE all nestled in with my decco2..
   
  Only had it for a day, but I am liking the WA6SE more than the WA6. Running some 6FD7s (sound awesome)..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> My new SE all nestled in with my decco2..
> 
> Only had it for a day, but I am liking the WA6SE more than the WA6. Running some 6FD7s (sound awesome)..


 


  Beautiful, Ahzari. Your ensemble is very Zen like - peaceful; relaxed. On the other hand, the music you choose to pump through your Woo could change all that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I see you went with the absence of color... _you chose wisely._


----------



## sunmonkey

Whoa. I've never got a sense of the size of the Sofia, but with the light switch as reference, she's truly a giant glob of glorious glass! I guess I could just order the Sofia, in anticipation of a Woo.
   
  Hrmm...
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


>


----------



## sunmonkey

Argh. SOPHIA.
   
  Now she'll never talk to me.  :\


----------



## Silent One

Miss Sophia--
   
  It's a good thing I placed her inside another home, or I would have had to cover her ears!


----------



## sunmonkey

She doesn't have to know any of this happened, right SilentOne-san?
   
  Our little secret, ok?
  
  And, as a non-Woo owner, I will now shush up and pass control of the forum back to its rightful stewards.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Miss Sophia--
> 
> It's a good thing I placed her inside another home, or I would have had to cover her ears!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Beautiful, Ahzari. Your ensemble is very Zen like - peaceful; relaxed. On the other hand, the music you choose to pump through your Woo could change all that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks SilentOne. Speaking of peaceful, I've actually been listening to a lot of Late Night Alumni recently... sounds amazing through the SE (almost haunting...)

  
  Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Whoa. I've never got a sense of the size of the Sofia, but with the light switch as reference, she's truly a giant glob of glorious glass! I guess I could just order the Sofia, in anticipation of a Woo.
> 
> Hrmm...


 
   
  Sophia is plump, but I also have a EML and that thing is tall... I switched between the two and I think I preferred the Sophia, it also has a nicer glow to it


----------



## San Raal

Have been listening on and off to the 596's in my Woo5/JJ 300B for the last few days driving K1000's.
   
  These tubes are somewhat of a mixed bag to my ears - when I used them with TSRP 6SN7 they sound too forward compared to the Shugaung 274B I was using previously. The bass is unlike anything I've heard before on the Woo, and suits the K1000 no end. The micro-details are amazing.
   
  I have some 5962 and 1578 6SN7 variants that I'm going to try rolling in tonight as well as EML 5U4G and 300B on order from Jac.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not sure I can say for sure either. I do feel tube selection could sway things a bit. Last year, I spent decent time listening to the WA22 via WA2 as pre-amp but the '22' was in single-ended mode. Then months later, spent time listening to the WA22 in full balanced mode. Both configurations were euphonic. And though I brought my music on a drive to mikemalter's listening room, I brought the wrong formatted drive. *Have my music library on both for Windows and Mac*, but in all my excitement to reach his house... I forgot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  i'm still catching up on thread so forgive me if this has already been said.  did you know that if you format your music HD with FAT32, both Windows and Macs will be able to read it?


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> My new SE all nestled in with my decco2..
> 
> Only had it for a day, but I am liking the WA6SE more than the WA6. Running some 6FD7s (sound awesome)..


 


  very nice!  really digging those rings


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i'm still catching up on thread so forgive me if this has already been said.  did you know that if you format your music HD with FAT32, both Windows and Macs will be able to read it?


 


  Yes, I am aware of FAT32's flexibility. Thanks for checking just in case I wasn't. I shoved an internal solid state drive down my Mac mini's throat; placed internal HDD into a OWC external drive enclosure. Despite the drive being formatted in Mac OS Extended (Journaled), we still could have made it work by transferring my music files but we lacked time. His system couldn't directly access sub folders and it had to go through the entire C:/ drive first. This transfer process was s-l-o-w. In the middle of a late listening session during the work week, we decided to abort.
   
  Inventory: 9 drives - (3) Mac OS Extended; (3) NTFS; (3) FAT32.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thanks SilentOne. Speaking of peaceful, I've actually been listening to a lot of Late Night Alumni recently... sounds amazing through the SE (almost haunting...)
> 
> 
> 
> Sophia is plump, but I also have a EML and that thing is tall... I switched between the two and I think I preferred the Sophia, it also has a nicer glow to it


 

 Wait 'til you get a few hundred plus hours! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Also, later this Spring I'll be looking to buy a pre-owned EML 5U4G, so... make sure you call me! I'm still "310" area code. Or PM me, should you decide to move it...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thanks SilentOne. Speaking of peaceful, I've actually been listening to a lot of Late Night Alumni recently... sounds amazing through the SE (almost haunting...)
> 
> 
> 
> Sophia is plump, but I also have a EML and that thing is tall... I switched between the two and I think I preferred the Sophia, it also has a nicer glow to it


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Have been listening on and off to the 596's in my Woo5/JJ 300B for the last few days driving K1000's.
> 
> These tubes are somewhat of a mixed bag to my ears - when I used them with TSRP 6SN7 they sound too forward compared to the Shugaung 274B I was using previously. The bass is unlike anything I've heard before on the Woo, and suits the K1000 no end. The micro-details are amazing.
> 
> I have some 5962 and 1578 6SN7 variants that I'm going to try rolling in tonight as well as EML 5U4G and 300B on order from Jac.


 


  The '596' seems to be an aggressive rec for my own TS-BGRP's. Looking to tame them some as they don't appear to be at their best, synergy wise. This Spring, I'm going to try and repurchase an EML 5U4G Mesh Plate. I think my Tung-Sol's/WA6SE would love this effort!
   
  How many hours on the pair of your '596' rectifiers?


----------



## Silent One

Discreet--
   
  Two things I was careful to never mention around Miss Sophia inside the listening room:
   
  1) That she's not really a Mesh Plate.
  2) Or that she's plump.


----------



## hodgjy

Someday I hope ZFS makes it to commercially available operating systems.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, I am aware of FAT32's flexibility. Thanks for checking just in case I wasn't. I shoved an internal solid state drive down my Mac mini's throat; placed internal HDD into a OWC external drive enclosure. Despite the drive being formatted in Mac OS Extended (Journaled), we still could have made it work by transferring my music files but we lacked time. His system couldn't directly access sub folders and it had to go through the entire C:/ drive first. This transfer process was s-l-o-w. In the middle of a late listening session during the work week, we decided to abort.
> 
> Inventory: 9 drives - (3) Mac OS Extended; (3) NTFS; (3) FAT32.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wait 'til you get a few hundred plus hours!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I'll be local for a while and I'm a 949'er so we're basically neighbors! hahaha I'll keep you posted, remind me if I forget.

  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> very nice!  really digging those rings


 

 awesome! I was actually a little scared putting the ring on the Sophia, it seemed to be putting a whole lot of pressure no the tube (even though I bought the suggested size for the SP), I was getting worried that with the heat it might collapse on itself or something haha... 
   
  Also how do you like the T1s with the SE? I tried out the HE500 but it was a bummer.. thinking either T1 / Signature Pro / LCD2 may be my next try..
   
  Dubstep Girl... don't you also have the SE and T1? How do you like your combo (I think you mentioned you were using 2 Woos at once, but how about just straight out of the SE?)..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Someday I hope ZFS makes it to commercially available operating systems.


 

 I just started dabbling in Linux. ZFS could reach me sooner than later...


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Someday I hope ZFS makes it to commercially available operating systems.


 


  you and me both!  i was really disappointed that apple decided to discontinue their effort to include it in Lion.  perhaps the next cat will include it <fingers crossed>


----------



## hodgjy

Me too.  That was one factor that prevented me from jumping from Snow Leopard to Lion.  Well, that and Snow Leopard has been purring very well for me.  Yes, lame pun.  But awesome for me this early in the morning.
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> you and me both!  i was really disappointed that apple decided to discontinue their effort to include it in Lion.  perhaps the next cat will include it <fingers crossed>


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I'll be local for a while and I'm a 949'er so we're basically neighbors! hahaha I'll keep you posted, remind me if I forget.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  yeah, i broke out in a bit of a nervous sweat when putting them on too.
   
  the T1 is currently my favorite all-rounder and reach for it 90% of the time these days.  the HD800 is technically better but can get a little too analytical for casual listening.  also, for my taste the 800 is better suited for acoustic and some jazz (at least in my setup) and sounds a bit thin on the low end for faster/electric music (in my case rock and newer jazz).  my previous reference was the HD600 and the T1 just seems to me like a more refined, more accurate 600.  i keep hearing that the T1 is much better with the WA2 but i think i will rock this setup for a while before making more changes <famous last words>


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Me too.  That was one factor that prevented me from jumping from Snow Leopard to Lion.  Well, that and Snow Leopard has been purring very well for me.  Yes, lame pun.  But awesome for me this early in the morning.


 


  Because my Mac is my music server only, the upgrade to Lion did absolutely nuthin' for me. My Woo sounds better with SL; would like my $29 back! Could have went toward the purchase of a tube. Brought SL in from the cold recently; now dual-booting both cats on the internal SSD.


----------



## hodgjy

I felt the same way.  Lion offered me nothing that I would use.  I have very basic computer needs and all the fancy widget gadgetry doesn't impress me much.  I'm a child of the DOS era!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Because my Mac is my music server only, the upgrade to Lion did absolutely nuthin' for me. My Woo sounds better with SL; would like my $29 back! Could have went toward the purchase of a tube. Brought SL in from the cold recently; now dual-booting both cats on the internal SSD.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> yeah, i broke out in a bit of a nervous sweat when putting them on too.
> 
> the T1 is currently my favorite all-rounder and reach for it 90% of the time these days.  the HD800 is technically better but can get a little too analytical for casual listening.  also, for my taste the 800 is better suited for acoustic and some jazz (at least in my setup) and sounds a bit thin on the low end for faster/electric music (in my case rock and newer jazz).  my previous reference was the HD600 and the T1 just seems to me like a more refined, more accurate 600.  i keep hearing that the T1 is much better with the WA2 but i think i will rock this setup for a while before making more changes <famous last words>


 

 Our rigs are nearly indentical. Did you update Amarra last week?


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Our rigs are nearly indentical. Did you update Amarra last week?


 


  i did!  i discovered the upgrade purely by chance though.  i was having trouble with it crashing quite a bit as well as being unable to change the output interfaces without restarting MINI.  was this happening to you in Snow Leopard also?  the new version (2.3.3 ?) seems to address both those issues but it also allows me to run iTunes in 64-bit mode AND adds support for automagic software update checking. yay!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> It appears I already have a buyer for my WA6. Didn't even have to post an ad for it!
> 
> Anyone selling an SE soon?
> 
> I'm curious to know what the sonic differences between a maxxed WA6 and a standard SE would be? I'm guessing it's a little hard to find a maxxed SE, since they are no longer made..


 


 I had all three but not all at the same time but I do have the WA6 maxxed and WA6SE at the same time.  The SE definitely have more energy and dynamic than the 6 maxxed but the Blackgates (maxxed) is a little more refine on vocal, especially female vocal.  Sold the regular WA6SE and kept the WA6 maxxed (at the time, i don't have any headphones that is hard to drive) until I found a WA6SE maxxed.
   
  I owned/own three out of four Woo are maxxed and I think it is worth it especially I listens to a lot of female vocals.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





thrak said:


> yeah, i broke out in a bit of a nervous sweat when putting them on too.
> 
> the T1 is currently my favorite all-rounder and reach for it 90% of the time these days.  the HD800 is technically better but can get a little too analytical for casual listening.  also, for my taste the 800 is better suited for acoustic and some jazz (at least in my setup) and sounds a bit thin on the low end for faster/electric music (in my case rock and newer jazz).  my previous reference was the HD600 and the T1 just seems to me like a more refined, more accurate 600.  i keep hearing that the T1 is much better with the WA2 but i think i will rock this setup for a while before making more changes <famous last words>


 

 do you notice any sibilance with the T1 and the SE? I love my Denons, but the fatigue gets to me after about an hour, ears need a rest.. I have yet to find a all a rounder that is not fatiguing... most the music i listen to is electronic (and variations of it) also some rock (on occasion).


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I would too, but I'm currently keeping my eye on a GS-1 (w/DACT attenuator).
> 
> Got too many cans so I'm likely selling my HE-6s and Lyr in the next few days and I like the idea of a nice SS option for my WA22.


 


 I used to own the GS-1 with stepped attenuator. It is a great little amp but then I discovered the Violectric V200 and sold the GS-1. IMO the V200 is more musical while the GS-1 is more analytical. it depends what you like in sound.
   
  I have the V200 in my night stand so I use it almost every night when I go to bed. I use it with an iPod as source and a pair of T70/Zeus cable and it sounds really good and obviously it scales better as you use a better source.


----------



## jerico

danska said:


> Typical phono stages give you somewhere around 40db of gain, some like my Jolida JD9 give upwards of 95db of gain.




95db?! Yowsahs!!


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The '596' seems to be an aggressive rec for my own TS-BGRP's. Looking to tame them some as they don't appear to be at their best, synergy wise. This Spring, I'm going to try and repurchase an EML 5U4G Mesh Plate. I think my Tung-Sol's/WA6SE would love this effort!
> 
> How many hours on the pair of your '596' rectifiers?


 

 Have only 3/4 hours on them so far, the impressions were made after the amp had warmed for an hour at least. Its probably early days but I saw in some of your earlier posts in this thread that the TSRP were not an ideal match for the 596 so I have my 5962 and 1578 on standby to try instead.
   
  Was originally just going to try the EML 5U4G's as the write ups here seem to match my preferences on sonic's - but at the cost and feedback here the 596 were worth a roll!


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I had all three but not all at the same time but I do have the WA6 maxxed and WA6SE at the same time.  The SE definitely have more energy and dynamic than the 6 maxxed but the Blackgates (maxxed) is a little more refine on vocal, especially female vocal.  Sold the regular WA6SE and kept the WA6 maxxed (at the time, i don't have any headphones that is hard to drive) until I found a WA6SE maxxed.
> 
> I owned/own three out of four Woo are maxxed and I think it is worth it especially I listens to a lot of female vocals.


 


   
  Well I really appreciate your input! It sounds like I need to strive for the maxxed variety again, because I too listen to a lot of female vocals.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Hi guys, I've returned to posting! I'm still working on saving up for a 6SE, and had some questions regarding tubes. Over the course of this thread, people have loved the Sophia, then thought they were dying too soon, so they went to EML, then some people thought those died early too, then EML did some QC and fixed issues, some people still like Sophia, others moved to JAN and NOS tubes and on and on and on.

 Long story short, I'd prefer current production (at least for the rectifier) so that I have the safety of a warranty. Did Sophia and EML ever sort out their QC issues, or are there still lots of cases of tubes blowing up way too early?

 Also, as far as drive/power tubes for the 6SE--I know that it doesn't support 6SN7 but Glenn's adapters with the extra cap do allow this. The idea of 6SN7 intrigues me, but again the NOS prices are skyrocketing. Are there any current production 6SN7 tubes that are on par with the Shuggies? Should this route be avoided altogether and I just go with 6FD7?

 Thanks all!


----------



## danska

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hi guys, I've returned to posting! I'm still working on saving up for a 6SE, and had some questions regarding tubes. Over the course of this thread, people have loved the Sophia, then thought they were dying too soon, so they went to EML, then some people thought those died early too, then EML did some QC and fixed issues, some people still like Sophia, others moved to JAN and NOS tubes and on and on and on.
> 
> Long story short, I'd prefer current production (at least for the rectifier) so that I have the safety of a warranty. Did Sophia and EML ever sort out their QC issues, or are there still lots of cases of tubes blowing up way too early?
> 
> ...


 

 The 6F8G is a great alternative to the 6SN7. You can find the famous TS-BGRPs for far less than the equivalent variety in the 6SN7. I might be selling my pair/adapters here soon.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Also how do you like the T1s with the SE? I tried out the HE500 but it was a bummer.. thinking either T1 / Signature Pro / LCD2 may be my next try..


 


  The 6 SE/T1 combo can be sibilant if recording is sibilant.
   
  I think that the T1 are very faithfull to the recording, with just a slight treble accent. But a tube amp like the SE compensates for the slight treble accent of the T1, so if the recording sounds good, the T1/Se is not sibilant at all. My T1/Se can sound even slightly dark when the recording is so.
   
  The problem can be if you listen to a lot of modern pop music, where the recording is often iper-compressed and has a sort of loudness effect embedded into.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





danska said:


> The 6F8G is a great alternative to the 6SN7. You can find the famous TS-BGRPs for far less than the equivalent variety in the 6SN7. I might be selling my pair/adapters here soon.


 
  Thanks for the headsup. Does the 6F8G have the same pin-out as the 6SN7 (i.e. do I need an adapter, and further, can the same adapter be used)? My issue with the lauded TS is that demand is huge, everybody's lapping them up, and I've seen pairs go for over $400. I don't have that kind of money, especially since they're NOS and have been sitting around forever. I guess I'm antsy about tubes that anybody can say are new but you have no way of verifying other than a tube tester--and even if they test ok but then something happens, you're out with no warranty or recourse.

 For these reasons I'm much more comfortable with current production 6SN7, which is why I mentioned the Shuggy CV-181Z's. While they are pricey, people say that they're pretty nice for what you pay. So along these lines, are there any other reputable current production 6SN7 tubes out there, or should I stick with cheap, plentiful NOS 6FD7 (or as you mentioned, 6F8G)?


----------



## jerico

silent one said:


> Opportunity costs--
> 
> When ordering the _Special Edition_, I thought about going "Maxxed" but I didn't like the math. Upgraded WA6SE or basic WA22? Upgraded WA22 or basic WA5LE?




The "problem" with the later (upgraded 22 vs basic 5LE) is future tube costs - those 300B's are a commitment!!

I still want one though, of course!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jerico said:


> The "problem" with the later (upgraded 22 vs basic 5LE) is future tube costs - those 300B's are a commitment!!
> I still want one though, of course!


 


   
  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i did!  i discovered the upgrade purely by chance though.  i was having trouble with it crashing quite a bit as well as being unable to change the output interfaces without restarting MINI.  was this happening to you in Snow Leopard also?  the new version (2.3.3 ?) seems to address both those issues but it also allows me to run iTunes in 64-bit mode AND adds support for automagic software update checking. yay!


 

  
  My glitches with Amarra were different. I didn't experience any of your problems. Where Amarra kept stumbling at is the beginning and ending of most tracks in Playlist mode. But I put up with it, as that mode had the most optimum sound over the over choices.
   
  Haven't myself updated to 2.3.3., as it's largely been an after thought. The last 30 days has seen me installing and playing around with different Linux flavors and music players. Though the goal was setting up a music server/client (MPD/GMPC). Very nice. The first of the month, I'll be purchasing an Alix 2d2 board; Linear regulated supply; CF card & case for my Linux server. Building a dedicated server will potentially move my Woo based audio system to the next level. I'll have Voyage/MPD installed - my iPhone; iTouch; 2 PC's & Mac will all serve as multiple clients. Playlists will be stored on the network. _We're looking to run low voltage, minimum processing, lean and mean._
   
  Will then decommission the Mac and place it into service as a regular computer, imagine that.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jerico said:


> The "problem" with the later (upgraded 22 vs basic 5LE) is future tube costs - those 300B's are a commitment!!
> I still want one though, of course!


 


  In audio, it's ok to dilly-dally sometimes. While we figure out what we really want... or need. _But, in the end, commitment tends to bring about the best. _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Have only 3/4 hours on them so far, the impressions were made after the amp had warmed for an hour at least. Its probably early days but I saw in some of your earlier posts in this thread that the TSRP were not an ideal match for the 596 so I have my 5962 and 1578 on standby to try instead.
> 
> Was originally just going to try the EML 5U4G's as the write ups here seem to match my preferences on sonic's - but at the cost and feedback here the 596 were worth a roll!


 


  Three to four hours? That's early. As was my initial findings with the TS/EML pairing. I only had a few hours with it. No way to know if the '596' could have surpassed the EML as a better dance partner eventually, with more time inside the listening room. As I'm preparing to change my source (front-end player), the TS/596 pairing may reveal some surprising delights.


----------



## hodgjy

So, last week I ordered a GE 6AS7GA power tube.  Today, little fuses showed up instead.  I'm not sure how you can confuse the two, but whatever.  GRRRRRR.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now I have to wait even longer to hear this tube.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> do you notice any sibilance with the T1 and the SE? I love my Denons, but the fatigue gets to me after about an hour, ears need a rest.. I have yet to find a all a rounder that is not fatiguing... most the music i listen to is electronic (and variations of it) also some rock (on occasion).


 


  just what you expect from the T1 itself (the bump in the 7-10khz region).  the headphone itself shows this bump in any setup i have tried it on.  its fairly noticeable on Bifrost/Asgard, for example.  the SE tones it down a bit and prevents it from reaching sibilance, however it is still there.  luckily its not present all the time and seems to be dependent on the music you are listening to.  all in all, on the SE, i probably wouldn't have noticed it unless i was looking for it.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





archigius said:


> The 6 SE/T1 combo can be sibilant if recording is sibilant.
> 
> I think that the T1 are very faithfull to the recording, with just a slight treble accent. But a tube amp like the SE compensates for the slight treble accent of the T1, so if the recording sounds good, the T1/Se is not sibilant at all. My T1/Se can sound even slightly dark when the recording is so.
> 
> The problem can be if you listen to a lot of modern pop music, where the recording is often iper-compressed and has a sort of loudness effect embedded into.


 

 i am always nervous when describing audio.  i'm never sure that i have communicated my impressions properly but it seems that we agree exactly.  makes me feel better about my own abilities


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My glitches with Amarra were different. I didn't experience any of your problems. Where Amarra kept stumbling at is the beginning and ending of most tracks in Playlist mode. But I put up with it, as that mode had the most optimum sound over the over choices.
> 
> Haven't myself updated to 2.3.3., as it's largely been an after thought. The last 30 days has seen me installing and playing around with different Linux flavors and music players. Though the goal was setting up a music server/client (MPD/GMPC). Very nice. The first of the month, I'll be purchasing an Alix 2d2 board; Linear regulated supply; CF card & case for my Linux server. Building a dedicated server will potentially move my Woo based audio system to the next level. I'll have Voyage/MPD installed - my iPhone; iTouch; 2 PC's & Mac will all serve as multiple clients. Playlists will be stored on the network. _We're looking to run low voltage, minimum processing, lean and mean._
> 
> Will then decommission the Mac and place it into service as a regular computer, imagine that.


 

  
  your Amarra situation is very interesting as i am having the same problem (on both 2.3.2 and 2.3.3) but in 'cache' mode only.  playlist mode is perfectly clean.  must be a difference in CoreAudio between 10.6 and 10.7.....
   
  do keep us updated on your Linux adventure.  i am currently mulling over a similar solution.  in my case, i have a mac mini thats is currently a file/web server but will be decommissioned soon.  been thinking about minimizing the OS services and doing something similar but would be willing to stand up a Linux box if that solution gives better results.  staying tuned...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> your Amarra situation is very interesting as i am having the same problem (on both 2.3.2 and 2.3.3) but in 'cache' mode only.  playlist mode is perfectly clean.  must be a difference in CoreAudio between 10.6 and 10.7.....
> 
> do keep us updated on your Linux adventure.  i am currently mulling over a similar solution.  in my case, i have a mac mini thats is currently a file/web server but will be decommissioned soon.  been thinking about minimizing the OS services and doing something similar but would be willing to stand up a Linux box if that solution gives better results.  staying tuned...


 
   
   
  Yes, in Playlist mode I do Cache as well. I've many services turned off, but in general the Mac mini (electrically speaking) is dirty... many computers are. Low powered and stripped down isolated devices (with Linux) _is the way to go. _After the assembly of the server, I'm going to build a Vortexbox with a lonely, discarded computer... giving it new life and a new home.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I wouldn't consider a '22' at this time (if I were you). You'd be paying for the privilege of using only *half* of the WA22; better options out there than that. I hope you're not Woo-less for too long, either. Or you might have to send that EML Glass back down "Interstate 5..."


 

 FWIW, I have recently tried my WA22 with my un-balanced Nordost Red Dawn cables and while not up to the level of balanced mode (using Kimber Hero w/XLR), it's certainly not half as good. I'd say you get a 15-20% improvement.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I used to own the GS-1 with stepped attenuator. It is a great little amp but then I discovered the Violectric V200 and sold the GS-1. IMO the V200 is more musical while the GS-1 is more analytical. it depends what you like in sound.
> 
> I have the V200 in my night stand so I use it almost every night when I go to bed. I use it with an iPod as source and a pair of T70/Zeus cable and it sounds really good and obviously it scales better as you use a better source.


 
   
  Already owning the very musical WA22 and wanting a very clean SS amp to contrast it, I decided to go for the GS-1 w/ stepped attenuator today. Justin should be mailing it out this week...ETA next week. Should be fun to compare it to my WA22.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Already owning the very musical WA22 and wanting a very clean SS amp to contrast it, I decided to go for the GS-1 w/ stepped attenuator today. Justin should be mailing it out this week...ETA next week. Should be fun to compare it to my WA22.


 


 Sounds like you went to the right store, but didn't go to the back room where he keeps the pricey stuff.... Just kidding of course. Kind of like going to American Sound where Angie keeps some of her stuff upstairs (if you've ever been up there).
   
  Congrats on the GS-1. Can't wait to hear the comparisons.


----------



## musicman59

The Attack of the Duende Criatura...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Sounds like you went to the right store, but didn't go to the back room where he keeps the pricey stuff.... Just kidding of course. *Kind of like going to American Sound* where Angie keeps some of her stuff upstairs (if you've ever been up there).
> 
> Congrats on the GS-1. Can't wait to hear the comparisons.


 
   
  Thanks

 Great store that American Sound...ironic it's here in the GTA. Next time I'm there, I'll make sure Angie shows my the upstairs next time I'm there.
   
  After a few weeks, I'll definitely report my findings...should be quite the comparison: the euphonic and uber musical WA22 and the very clean/neutral GS-1.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> The Attack of the Duende Criatura...


 

_The Jetsons--_
   
  These rings really do have me intrigued...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> FWIW, I have recently tried my WA22 with my un-balanced Nordost Red Dawn cables and while not up to the level of balanced mode (using Kimber Hero w/XLR), it's certainly not half as good. I'd say you get a 15-20% improvement.


 







  Definitely, not the mileage I'd want... _even with hard unearned cash._


----------



## hodgjy

Also looks some sort of force shield generated in Star Wars.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _The Jetsons--_
> 
> These rings really do have me intrigued...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Definitely, not the mileage I'd want... _even with hard unearned cash._


 

 OK...then maybe 25% ish.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Also looks some sort of force shield generated in Star Wars.


 


  21st Century sightings--
   





  _If you must know_:  2007 - saw first Star Wars film. 2009 - saw first Woo Audio Amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> OK...then maybe 25% ish.


 


  Hmmm, since dasnka doesn't need to go 'balanced,' I think he'd leave the 25% ish ride on the lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Me? I'm sitting on Zeus re-cabled XLR D7000's and two balanced DACs. I'm poised to pounce on a '22!' Well, funds permitting now that I'm off in a new direction...


----------



## hodgjy

I saw my first Woo amp in 2010.  Ordered one a few weeks later.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> 21st Century sightings--
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

it took me about a year to finally buy one.
  but from the first second i saw one i knew i had to have one


----------



## hodgjy

How are you liking the live Pink Floyd album?
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> it took me about a year to finally buy one.
> but from the first second i saw one i knew i had to have one


----------



## Rawrbington

love it.
  listened to it last night for about an hour.
  very good audio for a live show.


----------



## hodgjy

My thoughts exactly.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> love it.
> listened to it last night for about an hour.
> very good audio for a live show.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm, since dasnka doesn't need to go 'balanced,' I think he'd leave the 25% ish ride on the lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yeah I'm more in the used car market currently, both in the world of audio and cars! I'm getting ready to move to Southern California by March, so I'm going a new direction in life all together. I think the maxxed SE is probably my best bet, unless I could be convinced the WA2 sounds good with the LCD-2 (as some have mentioned). The only thing I keep coming back to is the lack of a pre-amp on the 6-SE. If I could find a good headphone/pre-amp combo, I could sell my Rega Cursa3, which would fetch at least $500-600 on the used market. I'm not even using the Cursa3 anymore, just sitting in it's box waiting for an amp to pair it with! Now I'm so tube spoiled with speakers that I'm not even considering solid state options for speakers anymore! If I could find the EL34 equivalent in a headphone amp I'd be very happy (my best guess is something like the WA2 or OTL based).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> love it.
> listened to it last night for about an hour.
> very good audio for a live show.


 

 which one?


----------



## hodgjy

The Wall Live 1980-81.  Fantastic album.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> which one?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i like the comfortably numb solo


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> it took me about a year to finally buy one.
> but from the first second i saw one i knew i had to have one


 


  This too, was my story. Saw it and knew right then and there I had to have one. It took about a year to line the tea tins with enough cash...


----------



## hodgjy

Which one?  The first or second one?  They are both soooo awesome.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i like the comfortably numb solo


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> Yeah I'm more in the used car market currently, both in the world of audio and cars! I'm getting ready to move to Southern California by March, so I'm going a new direction in life all together. I think the maxxed SE is probably my best bet, unless I could be convinced the WA2 sounds good with the LCD-2 (as some have mentioned). The only thing I keep coming back to is the lack of a pre-amp on the 6-SE. If I could find a good headphone/pre-amp combo, I could sell my Rega Cursa3, which would fetch at least $500-600 on the used market. I'm not even using the Cursa3 anymore, just sitting in it's box waiting for an amp to pair it with! Now I'm so tube spoiled with speakers that I'm not even considering solid state options for speakers anymore! If I could find the EL34 equivalent in a headphone amp I'd be very happy (my best guess is something like the WA2 or OTL based).


 

 My best guess would be for you to recruit some of the talent in this thread (2359glenn) and have your amp made to your specs. It be a great way to mark your arrival to SoCal.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Which one?  The first or second one?  They are both soooo awesome.


 


  both


----------



## Gabrielisc

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> both


 


  Hey, since you have both amps, which sounds better to you, the 6se or 2, got the hd800s.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Three to four hours? That's early. As was my initial findings with the TS/EML pairing. I only had a few hours with it. No way to know if the '596' could have surpassed the EML as a better dance partner eventually, with more time inside the listening room. As I'm preparing to change my source (front-end player), the TS/596 pairing may reveal some surprising delights.


 

 Indeed its early days.
   
  Rolled in my 5962s last night spun some Vinyl and certainly enjoyed what I heard - Ill put some more hours on the 596 and try the TSRP again.


----------



## Ahzari

I'm noticing after about an hour the whole driver tube unit of the WA6SE (even the volume knob) get noticeably warm/ leaning towards hot is this pretty normal? The unit with the rectifier is barely warm in comparison..


----------



## hodgjy

While this doesn't answer your question exactly, I can say that my WA3 gets warm as I used it.  Also, it will be different temperatures based on which power tube I use.  Some make it warmer than others.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I'm noticing after about an hour the whole driver tube unit of the WA6SE (even the volume knob) get noticeably warm/ leaning towards hot is this pretty normal? The unit with the rectifier is barely warm in comparison..


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I had a WA6SE until about a year ago; I remember that the tubes, of course, would get very hot, but any part of either case would only be mildly warm to the touch.  I also remember that the amp unit would be slightly warmer than the power supply unit.
   
  I now have a WA2, and it is the same.  Case is just a little warm to the touch, even after several hours of use.
   
  Some things to try:  of course, you want to be sure that the amp is properly ventilated, preferably on an open top shelf.  Also, check the power outlet; does anything else also get warm when plugged in to it?  Try unplugging the amp, and just connecting an extension cord to the outlet.  See if the cord warms up after awhile.  This could indicate wiring or grounding problems in the receptacle.  And finally, is the amps power cord, and also the umbilical power cord, seated properly?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> While this doesn't answer your question exactly, I can say that my WA3 gets warm as I used it.  Also, it will be different temperatures based on which power tube I use.  Some make it warmer than others.


 

 I did notice the 6FD7s got hotter than the 6EW7s, so maybe thats what is going on..
   


  Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> I had a WA6SE until about a year ago; I remember that the tubes, of course, would get very hot, but any part of either case would only be mildly warm to the touch.  I also remember that the amp unit would be slightly warmer than the power supply unit.
> 
> I now have a WA2, and it is the same.  Case is just a little warm to the touch, even after several hours of use.
> 
> Some things to try:  of course, you want to be sure that the amp is properly ventilated, preferably on an open top shelf.  Also, check the power outlet; does anything else also get warm when plugged in to it?  Try unplugging the amp, and just connecting an extension cord to the outlet.  See if the cord warms up after awhile.  This could indicate wiring or grounding problems in the receptacle.  And finally, is the amps power cord, and also the umbilical power cord, seated properly?


 


  Thanks for the info, next time i'm using the unit I will try looking at the power cord.. right now its connected to a surge protector though. It seemed a bit unusual as my WA6 didn't really get that warm.. but again as hodjy mentioned, maybe the tubes themselves are playing a role (different tubes running hotter/cooler).


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Indeed its early days.
> 
> Rolled in my 5962s last night spun some Vinyl and certainly enjoyed what I heard - Ill put some more hours on the 596 and try the TSRP again.


 


 Interesting comments...
   
  I can't say I really experienced a forward soundstage with the 596/TSRP. For me it was changing power tubes that would move the soundstage up a bit (at least with the TS5998).
   
  I think both tubes are actually strong in the same areas - better bass and micro details.  I just wonder if not using TSRP makes it seem like the 596 brings more to the table with lesser driver tubes. I listen to the TSRP for the tone and overall balance you don't get with other driver tubes. It might also be the difference between amps and source too.


----------



## Silent One

Different tubes are going to have different voltage and plate dissipation ratings. And will end up operating at a different percentage of its maximum plate rating - some higher, some lower and in between. Yes, it's normal, especially if you're running stock drive tubes.
   
  However, the first time I installed my NOS GE 6SN7GTA-1953's, if it weren't for the music emanating, I'd have never knew the amp was running. After an hour it was still cool to the touch. Ok, there was tube glow, but still...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> Hey, since you have both amps, which sounds better to you, the 6se or 2, got the hd800s.


 


   
  for me. depends on the headphone im using. the rs1, t1, and dt 990s sound best on wa2. everything else WA6-SE, also mosttly because the wa2 can't power lower impedances.
   
  the hd 800s im gonna guess will sound better out of the WA2 which is warmer and smooths out the highs more than the WA6-SE.
   
  but these are both world class amps and neither is "better" than the other. they both are just as good and it just depends on your headphones + taste.


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, as you said, different tubes will have different heater filaments and will also draw different loads off the transformer.  Some tubes even make my transformer slightly hum, and others are dead silent.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Different tubes are going to have different voltage and plate dissipation ratings. And will end up operating at a different percentage of its maximum plate rating - some higher, some lower and in between. Yes, it's normal, especially if you're running stock drive tubes.
> 
> However, the first time I installed my NOS GE 6SN7GTA-1953's, if it weren't for the music emanating, I'd have never knew the amp was running. After an hour it was still cool to the touch. Ok, there was tube glow, but still...


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

I've had my WA6-SE for a few months now and I'd like to get a pair of upgraded tubes.  I'd like to order from Jack because I need a headphone stand from him as well.  I know I'll be getting the Sophia Princess for the rectifier, but what drive/ power tubes should I get?  I'd be willing to get the 6EM7s (the ones with the adapter) if I knew that it would be totally work the extra $85 over the other options.  Is it that much "better" with HD650s (and classical/ soundtracks?  If not, should I get the 6FD7, 6EW7, or 6DR7s?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> I've had my WA6-SE for a few months now and I'd like to get a pair of upgraded tubes.  I'd like to order from Jack because I need a headphone stand from him as well.  I know I'll be getting the Sophia Princess for the rectifier, but what drive/ power tubes should I get?  I'd be willing to get the 6EM7s (the ones with the adapter) if I knew that it would be totally work the extra $85 over the other options.  Is it that much "better" with HD650s (and classical/ soundtracks?  If not, should I get the 6FD7, 6EW7, or 6DR7s?


 


  Hi, i'm using the 6DN7 tubes (similar to the 6EM7) + adapters from Woo Audio and i think they are worth the asking price.
  These tubes are IMHO more detailed than the standard 6DE7/6EW7, but the sound is slightly less warm.
   
  In my experience, the 6EW7 are warmer (i have 2 pairs branded RCA) than the 6DE7 and 6DN7.
  Actually i'm waiting for some 6GL7 from Jack, these should sound similar to the 6DN7; jack says these are even better, but i can't confirm until i listen to them.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hi guys, I've returned to posting! I'm still working on saving up for a 6SE, and had some questions regarding tubes. Over the course of this thread, people have loved the Sophia, then thought they were dying too soon, so they went to EML, then some people thought those died early too, then EML did some QC and fixed issues, some people still like Sophia, others moved to JAN and NOS tubes and on and on and on.
> 
> Long story short, I'd prefer current production (at least for the rectifier) so that I have the safety of a warranty. Did Sophia and EML ever sort out their QC issues, or are there still lots of cases of tubes blowing up way too early?
> 
> ...


 
  Hey all, just wanted to bump my question from a few pages back, thanks! 

 I've had 6F8G suggested as well as a substitute to 6SN7's, any input?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hey all, just wanted to bump my question from a few pages back, thanks!
> 
> I've had 6F8G suggested as well as a substitute to 6SN7's, any input?


 


  I never compared to 6FD7 and 6SN7/6F8G directly but I love the latter one much better with HD800.  It is a very hard comparison, the 6FD7 is much less expensive...  If money is not an object, I will certainly go the 6SN7 route, it is much more widely use on other amp.  Think about upgrade to WA22 in the future???


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





thephoenix924s said:


> I've had my WA6-SE for a few months now and I'd like to get a pair of upgraded tubes.  I'd like to order from Jack because I need a headphone stand from him as well.  I know I'll be getting the Sophia Princess for the rectifier, but what drive/ power tubes should I get?  I'd be willing to get the 6EM7s (the ones with the adapter) if I knew that it would be totally work the extra $85 over the other options.  Is it that much "better" with HD650s (and classical/ soundtracks?  If not, should I get the 6FD7, 6EW7, or 6DR7s?


 


   

  I currently prefer the sound of the 6FD7 to the stock 6EW7 on my SE (with my Sophia Princess)... much warmer and sweeter sound (right out of the box).. neither of the driver tubes have been burned in much.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Different tubes are going to have different voltage and plate dissipation ratings. And will end up operating at a different percentage of its maximum plate rating - some higher, some lower and in between. Yes, it's normal, especially if you're running stock drive tubes.
> 
> However, the first time I installed my NOS GE 6SN7GTA-1953's, if it weren't for the music emanating, I'd have never knew the amp was running. After an hour it was still cool to the touch. Ok, there was tube glow, but still...


 


  good to know! it must be the 6FD7s then..


----------



## hodgjy

New tubes arrived today.  Just rolled in some Philips JAN 6922.  They are warming up now.  Will give a listen in a bit.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> New tubes arrived today.  Just rolled in some Philips JAN 6922.  They are warming up now.  Will give a listen in a bit.


 


  Great! In the previous mix-up, I'm guessing there were no 5x20mm 3.2v Slow Blow Type-T fuses found.


----------



## hodgjy

You know it!  I have some various power tubes scheduled to arrive in the next few days.  Hopefully no fuses!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great! In the previous mix-up, I'm guessing there were no 5x20mm 3.2v Slow Blow Type-T fuses found.


----------



## Silent One

Fusion--
   
  Tube rolling often reminds me of fusion inside the kitchen. It could be inside your own kitchen, family, friend and/or restaurant. Loving the known favorites yet, craving a little something different. Perhaps, a taste in between. And so you hunt... _like a Louisiana Bloodhound!_ Searching high and low - sometimes getting boxed in the nose (ugh! - that ain't it!!!) Other times, tripping over a completely different find while pursuing another member's suggestions and being delighted all the same.
   
  A wonderful adventure, this hobby...


----------



## hodgjy

Yes it is.  I love tube rolling.  There's just something gratifying about rolling tubes to get that perfect sound instead of using a graphic equalizer. 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Fusion--
> 
> Tube rolling often reminds me of fusion inside the kitchen. It could be inside your own kitchen, family, friend and/or restaurant. Loving the known favorites yet, craving a little something different. Perhaps, a taste in between. And so you hunt... _like a Louisiana Bloodhound!_ Searching high and low - sometimes getting boxed in the nose (ugh! - that ain't it!!!) Other times, tripping over a completely different find while pursuing another member's suggestions and being delighted all the same.
> 
> A wonderful adventure, this hobby...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yes it is.  I love tube rolling.  There's just something gratifying about rolling tubes to get that perfect sound instead of using a graphic equalizer.


 


  I've long had a parametric equalizer that uses plug-in modules, so I use to roll those. It came with standard frequencies but it was really interesting to buy and use Q's in between. This plug & play concept is one of things I admired about the MHDT Labs Balanced Havana I had here for awhile. Had I kept it, I would have swapped some caps and things in and out for fun and pursuit of higher fidelity. All in a matter of seconds.


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of tube rolling, my new tube cleaning kit (from Music Direct) just dropped! (Thanks, Fred...er...FedEx!). To date, I've only cleaned my pins with ultra-fine sand paper; fine nail file w/light touch. Then wiping with deoxit red, followed by gold. Now, we get to send 'em to the Spa... and let 'em soak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I think I'll start doing that right now! You with me, WarriorAnt? Oh, you finished already...


----------



## hodgjy

My tube cleaning kit and routine is very basic.  I take a $2 brass bristle brush I got from the hardware store and scrape the pins the best I can.  Then q-tip with 70% rubbing alcohol, quick towel down, air dry, insert tube.
   
  What does your kit entail?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Speaking of tube rolling, my new tube cleaning kit (from Music Direct) just dropped! (Thanks, Fred...er...FedEx!). To date, I've only cleaned my pins with ultra-fine sand paper; fine nail file w/light touch. Then wiping with deoxit red, followed by gold. Now, we get to send 'em to the Spa... and let 'em soak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My tube cleaning kit and routine is very basic.  I take a $2 brass bristle brush I got from the hardware store and scrape the pins the best I can.  Then q-tip with 70% rubbing alcohol, quick towel down, air dry, insert tube.
> 
> What does your kit entail?


 
   
   





 Gettin' squeeky--
  
  I got just the basic CAIG kit: Deoxit cleaner (red); Deoxit gold; Lint free cotton cloths; 2 soaking cups; 2 foam swabs; 2 socket cleaning brushes (plastic); 1 socket cleaning brush (metal wire).


----------



## hodgjy

Sounds pretty sweet.  The next time you clean up some nasty tubes, could you post come before/after pics?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Gettin' squeeky--
> 
> I got just the basic CAIG kit: Deoxit cleaner (red); Deoxit gold; Lint free cotton cloths; 2 soaking cups; 2 foam swabs; 2 socket cleaning brushes (plastic); 1 socket cleaning brush (metal wire).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You set to check it out tomorrow? Perhaps, you'll get more feedback then. But the deal certainly has my interest... I'd look to bring it home.


 


  Got it yesterday, it is mint condition.  Both the belt and needle is around 70-90 hours, I should be fine for another 200+ hours but I'm itching to get a better stylus already.  Spinning vinyl bring back a lot of memories of college years, especially this.


----------



## danska

What kind of cart did you get? 70-90 hours isn't even a break in on some. I got 2500 out of my last MM.
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got it yesterday, it is mint condition.  Both the belt and needle is around 70-90 hours, I should be fine for another 200+ hours but I'm itching to get a better stylus already.  Spinning vinyl bring back a lot of memories of college years, especially this.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got it yesterday, it is mint condition.  Both the belt and needle is around 70-90 hours, I should be fine for another 200+ hours but I'm itching to get a better stylus already.  Spinning vinyl bring back a lot of memories of college years, especially this.


 





  Hopefully, you meant "2,000+" hours. _Otherwise, I'll bang on the seller's door myself!_


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> What kind of cart did you get? 70-90 hours isn't even a break in on some. I got 2500 out of my last MM.


 


  Stock, crappy Ortofon 5E.  Thinking upgrade to Ortofon 20 stylus or Rega Bias 2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> What kind of cart did you get? 70-90 hours isn't even a break in on some. I got 2500 out of my last MM.


 

  
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hopefully, you meant "2,000+" hours. _Otherwise, I'll bang on the seller's door myself!_


 


  The owner's menu said 500-1000 on this stylus.


----------



## hodgjy

So far I'm really liking the Philips JAN 6992.  They probably came from the same assembly plants as the Sylvania 6DJ8, but I can hear differences between the two.  The Philips are just a hint less smooth, but not in a bad way.  They are clear, but still have roll off where I like it.  I also think they have a lower noise floor.
   
  Good tubes.  And I like the way Woo ships them.  I got them straight from Woo.  They were packaged very well.  I think they could have survived an earthquake.  I wish all tube sellers would do this.  I once received 6DJ8s in a mailing envelope with no padding!  Good thing they didn't get smashed!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The owner's menu said 500-1000 on this stylus.


 


  Oh, that's much better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I can raise the dough, I'm interested in mikemalter's Music Hall MM-7... perhaps, later this spring.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> So far I'm really liking the Philips JAN 6992.  They probably came from the same assembly plants as the Sylvania 6DJ8, but I can hear differences between the two.  The Philips are just a hint less smooth, but not in a bad way.  They are clear, but still have roll off where I like it.  I also think they have a lower noise floor.
> 
> Good tubes.  And I like the way Woo ships them.  I got them straight from Woo.  They were packaged very well.  I think they could have survived an earthquake.  I wish all tube sellers would do this.  I once received 6DJ8s in a mailing envelope with no padding!  Good thing they didn't get smashed!


 


  Good to hear the lower noise floor as bonus for the JAN 6992's. I really like Woo Audio's practices, by the way...


----------



## GouldPhoto

It's dark, looking at my reflection in the window, soft glow of tubes from the Woo, Pink Floyd playing, waiting for my wife to get home. Life is good.
   
  Tomorrow will see the Pink Floyd box set arrive, and comparative listening begins...


----------



## hodgjy

Life does sound good in your household!
  
  Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> It's dark, looking at my reflection in the window, soft glow of tubes from the Woo, Pink Floyd playing, waiting for my wife to get home. Life is good.
> 
> Tomorrow will see the Pink Floyd box set arrive, and comparative listening begins...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oh, that's much better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  he is selling it?  I was look at a MMF7 myself but it is kind of price and don't really like to get a use table over the net.


----------



## danska

jc I would reccomend trying out the Ortofon 2M series as well. The whole line up is really nice. I've owned the blue and still have a bronze. They are a true step above the OM line. You can upgrade stylii on them as well. 500-1000 is a very very low estimate IMO, I have a few with upwards of 3000, although the sound quality has decreased on one quite a bit.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





danska said:


> jc I would reccomend trying out the Ortofon 2M series as well. The whole line up is really nice. I've owned the blue and still have a bronze. They are a true step above the OM line. You can upgrade stylii on them as well. 500-1000 is a very very low estimate IMO, I have a few with upwards of 3000, although the sound quality has decreased on one quite a bit.


 


  I'm looking at a 2M Bronze on Agon too.  If I have to spend more than $150 on this table, I will most likely upgrade the table first.


----------



## jc9394

Back on Woo subject, I loop it out of Marantz using the tape loop to WA22, it sound really really good.  Love the true analog sound and the warm of tube.


----------



## hodgjy

Marantz also voice many of their products to the warm side, so it seems like your combo is very euphonic.  I love the sound of tubes as well.  They make acoustic guitars sound sublime.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Back on Woo subject, I loop it out of Marantz using the tape loop to WA22, it sound really really good.  Love the true analog sound and the warm of tube.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Back on Woo subject, I loop it out of Marantz using the tape loop to WA22, it sound really really good.  Love the true analog sound and the warm of tube.


 


   
  I love the way my WA6 sounded over the tape out on my modded Jolida 302b. Not sure which tubes attribute to the sound in that circuit, but it adds a nice warmth. Of course my phono stage is also tube output so I'm tubes galore


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Marantz also voice many of their products to the warm side, so it seems like your combo is very euphonic.  I love the sound of tubes as well.  They make acoustic guitars sound sublime.


 


  Agreed on the Marantz is little on the warmer side, it is a great match with HD800 but not so much with LCD-2.  Borrowed this from my friend and it sound sublime.


----------



## hodgjy

Right now I'm listening to Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds live in Vegas (acoustic).  It is a superb recording of an excellent performance.  Very detailed and mixed extremely well.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Marantz also voice many of their products to the warm side, so it seems like your combo is very *euphonic*.  I love the sound of tubes as well.  They make acoustic guitars sound sublime.


 


   
  That is how Jack descripts my Woo...


----------



## hodgjy

It's a good word.  My first time experiencing it was on my Woo.  I came from the world of iPods and cheap solid state.  Tube glow changed my listening forever.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is how Jack descripts my Woo...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's a good word.  My first time experiencing it was on my Woo.  I came from the world of iPods and cheap solid state.  Tube glow changed my listening forever.


 


   
  Agreed, Woo is my first tube amp too.  I have gone thru 3 Woo offering and finally settle down on WA22.  As good as beta22 is, every time I pull out the HD800, it automatically find it's way to the Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> It's dark, looking at my reflection in the window, soft glow of tubes from the Woo, Pink Floyd playing, waiting for my wife to get home. Life is good.
> 
> Tomorrow will see the Pink Floyd box set arrive, and comparative listening begins...


 


  Yes, life is good. I absolutely love those Thur/Fri shipments! Tomorrow, I have a new WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax cable coming. To replace my WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What's with this WireWorld addiction, anyway?! Perhaps, I can justify getting an extra half-meter...


----------



## hodgjy

My WA3 is a competent little amp.  I've always dreamed of the WA2 or WA22, but it's just not in the finances.  I can't justify that amount when I really need to move out of my apartment and buy a house.  But, that's not to say the WA3 isn't doing the job for me.  It brings a huge smile to my face every time I fire it up (and the tubes behave!).

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Agreed, Woo is my first tube amp too.  I have gone thru 3 Woo offering and finally settle down on WA22.  As good as beta22 is, every time I pull out the HD800, it automatically find it's way to the Woo.


----------



## hodgjy

I hope my Sylvania 5998A power tube comes tomorrow, but I'd be surprised.  I know it's going to be nothing like the Tung-sol 5998, but I am a compulsive tube collector.  Gotta hear everything!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, life is good. *I absolutely love those Thur/Fri shipments! *Tomorrow, I have a new WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax cable coming. To replace my WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My WA3 is a competent little amp.  I've always dreamed of the WA2 or WA22, but it's just not in the finances.  I can't justify that amount when I really need to move out of my apartment and buy a house.  But, that's not to say the WA3 isn't doing the job for me.  It brings a huge smile to my face every time I fire it up (and the tubes behave!).


 


   
  I heard you on rental, I was in that boat before.  The higher end Woo will come, just need time.


----------



## jc9394

Talking about shipment, I have something coming from Q Audio and I have no idea what it is.  All I know is Eddy is sending me some samples.


----------



## hodgjy

I hear you.  Once I get a house, I have a feeling a higher end Woo will find its way into my listening area.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard you on rental, I was in that boat before.  The higher end Woo will come, just need time.


----------



## jc9394

Tube rolling again tonight to find a match for Rega>Marantz>Woo>Hd800.  So far keeping the GEC 6AS7G in place and replaced the Treasures with Brimar CV1988 and 596 with GZ34 metal base, loving it but seems like missing something and don't know what yet.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I hear you.  Once I get a house, I have a feeling a higher end Woo will find its way into my listening area.


 


  I'm sure it will, it happened to me...


----------



## hodgjy

That is the holy grail.  No need to roll anything else into its position!!!
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Tube rolling again tonight to find a match for Rega>Marantz>Woo>Hd800.  So far keeping the *GEC 6AS7G* in place and replaced the Treasures with Brimar CV1988 and 596 with GZ34 metal base, loving it but seems like missing something and don't know what yet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> he is selling it?  I was look at a MMF7 myself but it is kind of price and don't really like to get a use table over the net.


 
   
  Remember last summer, he unearthed the TT below after storing it unused for two years in his living room? Well, the Music Hall is just sitting in his closet as well. Being the outstanding gentleman and head-fier he is, he offered to let me listen to it for two to three months. Then I asked, _"Why don't I just buy it?"  _And that's when the wheels came off the bus! I bought the TS-BGRP's a couple of days later and was left wiped out.
   
  I understand the concern making such a purchase over the Net. But in my case, he's only a 60 minute drive away. And when 'Clayton SF' gifted me his backup TT, I simply caught the Subway - leaving his apartment with the TT inside of a tote bag w/wheels. It was as if I was simply leaving the work office.


----------



## hodgjy

OMG.  That is the most incredible vinyl spinner I've ever seen.  Me likey.  We wanty.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


>


----------



## fishski13

John,
  for cheap HO MC carts, check out the Denon DL-110 or 160.  after owning the Benz Silver at 3x the price, i went through several DL-110.  stupid good for the price.  if you can do LO MC, your options increase, but at a price.


----------



## jc9394

They have two version, round base and straight base.  The round base one is extremely rare and it have slightly better bass extension and smoother vocal, especially on deeper voice female singer (my flavor jazz singer, Diana Krall).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Remember last summer, he unearthed the TT below after storing it unused for two years in his living room? Well, the Music Hall is just sitting in his closet as well. Being the outstanding gentleman and head-fier he is, he offered to let me listen to it for two to three months. Then I asked, _"Why don't I just buy it?"  _And that's when the wheels came off the bus! I bought the TS-BGRP's a couple of days later and was left wiped out.
> 
> I understand the concern making such a purchase over the Net. But in my case, he's only a 60 minute drive away. And when 'Clayton SF' gifted me his backup TT, I simply caught the Subway - leaving his apartment with the TT inside of a tote bag w/wheels. It was as if I was simply leaving the work office.


 


  Holy crap, I want...


----------



## hodgjy

Which one do you have?
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They have two version, round base and straight base.  The round base one is extremely rare and it have slightly better bass extension and smoother vocal, especially on deeper voice female singer (my flavor jazz singer, Diana Krall).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fishski13 said:


> John,
> for cheap HO MC carts, check out the Denon DL-110 or 160.  after owning the Benz Silver at 3x the price, i went through several DL-110.  stupid good for the price.  if you can do LO MC, your options increase, but at a price.


 


   
  Hey Corey, nice to see you drop by.  How's family?
   
  Not sure my Rega P1 can handle MC carts at all, I will check them out.  I will try to loop out to beta22 tomorrow to see how it plays with LCD-2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Which one do you have?


 


   
  As a crazy Woo lover and searching for the best tubes available.  I have both versions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> OMG.  That is the most incredible vinyl spinner I've ever seen.  Me likey.  We wanty.


 


  He's extremely busy these days. But now that I'm looking at the pix again, gonna have to call/visit and have a listen!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fishski13 said:


> John,
> for cheap HO MC carts, check out the Denon DL-110 or 160.  after owning the Benz Silver at 3x the price, i went through several DL-110.  stupid good for the price.  if you can do LO MC, your options increase, but at a price.


 


  Wow, the Denon DL-110 is very affordable for my table.  Too bad the DL-160 discontinued.  Now, I need to research to see if P1 can take the DL-110.


----------



## hodgjy

I knew you had it in you!!!
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> As a crazy Woo lover and searching for the bet tubes available.  I have both versions.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> He's extremely busy these days. But now that I'm looking at the pix again, gonna have to call/visit and have a listen!


 


   
  Let's try May, I will be in town for a week or two.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Holy crap, I want...


 

 And to think, for two years it was just sitting downstairs in the catbox!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let's try May, I will be in town for a week or two.


 


  This is great news! Hope 'shipsupt' hasn't moved across the pond to England by then...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I knew you had it in you!!!


 


   
  It takes me over 50 hours of critical listening before I come to the conclusion of the difference of two versions.  Thank god, Rob (Skylab) agreed on the differences.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And to think, for two years it was just sitting downstairs in the catbox!


 


   
  I hand carry it on the plane back...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I hand carry it on the plane back...


 


  We'll definitely have to see Clayton's Wootastic Woosuem!


----------



## fishski13

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow, the Denon DL-110 is very affordable for my table.  Too bad the DL-160 discontinued.  Now, I need to research to see if P1 can take the DL-110.


 

 i ran my Denons on a modified RB250.  you just need to have a decent protractor for alignment.  what's your phonostage?  if it's MM only, it shouldn't have any issues handling the 1.6mV output.  seriously, do a search on the cart.  the DL-160 really wasn't an improvement at an extra cost.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fishski13 said:


> i ran my Denons on a modified RB250.  you just need to have a decent protractor for alignment.  what's your phonostage?  if it's MM only, it shouldn't have any issues handling the 1.6mV output.  seriously, do a search on the cart.  the DL-160 really wasn't an improvement at an extra cost.


 


   
  Currently, I'm using a vintage Marantz receiver as phono stage and use the tape loop out to a headamp.  The headphone out from the Marantz is very good too.
   
  Did a quick search, some said it will work some said not.  I can take a chance since I'm planning on an upgrade soon (as soon as I sold my condo).


----------



## hodgjy

Rob's a good guy.  He helped me a lot when I was getting started.  He was spot on most of the time recommending tubes and headphones that he thought I might like based on my preferences.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It takes me over 50 hours of critical listening before I come to the conclusion of the difference of two versions.  Thank god, Rob (Skylab) agreed on the differences.


----------



## danska

The P1 has a RB100 which is a lighter arm than the 250. AFAIK most MC types are not going to be compliant with that arm. I wouldn't spend too much money on the cart unless your considering upgrading it really soon. Vinyl Engine has a compliance calculator I believe, which can give you a good idea of what's compatible and what's not.
   
  That being said I'm a huge MC fan, especially the low-output types. I hope when I return home my Linn motor has arrived and I can listen to some Jubilee sonic bliss before my WA6 departs!


----------



## hodgjy

Some tubes I can tell apart immediately.  Some tubes I can never tell apart.  Most, for me, are in between.  I'm still developing my ears, though.  I'm getting better and understanding the sounds.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It takes me over 50 hours of critical listening before I come to the conclusion of the difference of two versions.  Thank god, Rob (Skylab) agreed on the differences.


----------



## Ahzari

is anyone using the Ultrasone signature pros with their woo's?


----------



## Xcalibur255

My mistake with tube rolling was always making rash judgements.  That, and focusing on certain elements without taking in the whole picture.  I've found that to truly compare tubes you have to spend weeks with one, then weeks with the other.  Immediately A/Bing stuff honestly doesn't work I've really come to believe.  Over time the differences will make themselves apparent and you'll remember which aspects of each tube matter and be able to form a big picture impression of which is better overall.
   
  Some tubes I remember quick comparing a while ago sound totally different to me when I just put them in the amp with no "agenda" in mind other than just wanting to listen to a different tube.  What condition my ears are in really matters a *lot* too I've found.  Some days I simply do not hear as well as others.  There are special days when I can really go deep into the music, and I savor those days like a fine wine when they come (too few and far between I'm afraid).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My mistake with tube rolling was always making rash judgements.  That, and focusing on certain elements without taking in the whole picture.  I've found that to truly compare tubes you have to spend weeks with one, then weeks with the other.  Immediately A/Bing stuff honestly doesn't work I've really come to believe.  Over time the differences will make themselves apparent and you'll remember which aspects of each tube matter and be able to form a big picture impression of which is better overall.
> 
> Some tubes I remember quick comparing a while ago sound totally different to me when I just put them in the amp with no "agenda" in mind other than just wanting to listen to a different tube.  What condition my ears are in really matters a *lot* too I've found.  Some days I simply do not hear as well as others.  There are special days when I can really go deep into the music, and I savor those days like a fine wine when they come (too few and far between I'm afraid).


 

 "T" as in Tube?
   
  Xcalibur255, you echoed my preferences for evaluating to a "T!" I like to extend out the time I'm getting familiar with something, well before honing in. This is my attempt to avoid what I dub _"The Vacation Effect." _Where a heightened emotional state could easily exaggerate one's perception. If I'm able to have 30 days with a tube, cable or accessory then great. 'Cause I won't really be paying attention until Day 21 at minimum. I'll go about my business and listen in as if I had the tube in question all along, no special attention.
   
  Once I do start to hone in, it is very natural for me to pay attention to my state of mind and where I'm at emotionally. As well as experiences leading up to the session, be it an hour before or an evening before. The end of a trial can make revisiting both fun and revealing.
   
   
  Post Script.: 
   
  I hope you're able to find that special place much more often.


----------



## hodgjy

I think I am better able to find this place.  I think it's because I finally got the right headphones.  I started out with the DT880s, but something just seemed "off" to me.  Then, I got the DT990s, which were much better, but some nights I couldn't enter that state of Zen.  I tube rolled a lot to find that nice mixture I was looking for.  I came close, but not totally there.  Enter the HD600s.  All is right with the world.  At least on my Woo.  Some days I still need to rock out on my Asgard with my DT990s, but the WA3 and the HD600s allow me to go to my happy place.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Post Script.:
> 
> I hope you're able to find that special place much more often.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think I am better able to find this place.  I think it's because I finally got the right headphones.  I started out with the DT880s, but something just seemed "off" to me.  Then, I got the DT990s, which were much better, but some nights I couldn't enter that state of Zen.  I tube rolled a lot to find that nice mixture I was looking for.  I came close, but not totally there.  Enter the HD600s.  All is right with the world.  At least on my Woo.  Some days I still need to rock out on my Asgard with my DT990s, but the WA3 and the HD600s allow me to go to my happy place.


 








  A better you could also transfer over to your students, enhancing their learning experience.


----------



## kchew

If you're into photography, controversial photography reviewer Ken Rockwell went to CES 2012 and had nice things to say about the Woo amps.
   
  http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ces/2012/audio.htm
   
  Take his other impressions with a pinch of salt though...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> If you're into photography, controversial photography reviewer Ken Rockwell went to CES 2012 and had nice things to say about the Woo amps.
> 
> http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ces/2012/audio.htm
> 
> Take his other impressions with a pinch of salt though...


 


  Thanks. We crossed paths online when I bought my D40... I'll go have a look!


----------



## kchew

Is it me or would the Woo photos look better with 596's instead of Shuguang 274Bs?


----------



## jc9394

I'm surprise Jack did not use Miss Sophia instead.  Shuggie probably pay Jack to use their tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Is it me or would the Woo photos look better with 596's instead of Shuguang 274Bs?


 


  I'm with you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's ironic but, I was up all night, the sun is rising on the West Coast and I am dragging. As an owner, wonderful words about Woo Audio tends to get me sitting up a little straighter... only to go to bed?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's messed up! Now I wanna hear music.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm with you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Power than bad boy up again and give you another hour of listening.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Power than bad boy up again and give you another hour of listening.


 


  What I wouldn't do for my Woo! I ordered a tube cleaning kit that came yesterday. Only to discover last night that both soaking cups were too small for my Tung-Sols. I needed to improvise and walked around the home looking for objects to fit. Admittedly, walking around and in and out of the garage with one of them bad boys in my hand made me a bit nervous... _"ka chink!"  _





  As much as I like the way glass sounds when it breaks... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Finally found a small drinking glass in the kitchen - everything took twice as long. Will finish last step just before 0800!


----------



## hodgjy

That is true.  My students always tease me on Mondays, fearing a Packers or Alabama football loss might make for interesting times.  Of course, I don't operate like that, but I do enjoy my personal relationships with my students.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> A better you could also transfer over to your students, enhancing their learning experience.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What I wouldn't do for my Woo! I ordered a tube cleaning kit that came yesterday. Only to discover last night that both soaking cups were too small for my Tung-Sols. I needed to improvise and walked around the home looking for objects to fit. Admittedly, walking around and in and out of the garage with one of them bad boys in my hand made me a bit nervous... _"ka chink!"  _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That will be a very expensive "ka chink" noise...


----------



## hodgjy

I'm also into photographer and spend some time over at dpreview, and Rockwell is the laughing stock over there.  It is nice to see him like Woo amps, though.  I guess good taste transcends all.
  
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> If you're into photography, controversial photography reviewer Ken Rockwell went to CES 2012 and had nice things to say about the Woo amps.
> 
> http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ces/2012/audio.htm
> 
> Take his other impressions with a pinch of salt though...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm also into photographer and spend some time over at dpreview, and Rockwell is the laughing stock over there.  It is nice to see him like Woo amps, though.  I guess good taste transcends all.


 


  I never liked KR's review, both the Nikonians and DP hates his review.


----------



## Silent One

*Silent Dance Party--*
   
  As much as we all love spending time with our Woo's, anyone here ever attend a Silent Dance Party? Club goers are issued individual headphones instead of listening over the venue's loudspeakers. Share your experience...




   
  I received an invite to attend tonight's party, save one minor detail... _it's in Downtown D.C.! _ Perhaps, next year!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Silent Dance Party--*
> 
> As much as we all love spending time with our Woo's, anyone here ever attend a Silent Dance Party? Club goers are issued individual headphones instead of listening over the venue's loudspeakers. Share your experience...
> 
> ...


 

 I can take a train to DC but I'm not invited...


----------



## hodgjy

I agree.  He lets his fanboyism guide his reviews.  And, his website is one big advertisement where he whores himself out for donations.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I never liked KR's review, both the Nikonians and DP hates his review.


----------



## jc9394

So sad, we have way too much hobbies.  I need to win the lottery to support my hobbies.  
   
  Nikon D800 is calling my name...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I can take a train to DC but I'm not invited...


 

  
  Open to the public. But if it were private, no matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you're jc9394! I bet it'd be a fun aural experience, l'm looking forward to doing one. Update: Tubes and sockets got squeeky! WireWorld candy arrives @ Noon. And I shall fall out 'til then... have yourselves a most brilliant morning!


----------



## jc9394

Which patterns do you guys like the most?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the grey ones at the bottom would be pretty cool, different than the others.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Which patterns do you guys like the most?


 


 I personally like the bottom one the best.


----------



## jc9394

I can't decide on the bottom or the top right one.  I'm leaning toward the top right one.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I can't decide on the bottom or the top right one.  I'm leaning toward the top right one.


 


 yeap, that would be my second choice. I personally like more the cleaner/conservative looks so that's why I picked the bottom one.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> yeap, that would be my second choice. I personally like more the* cleaner/conservative* looks so that's why I picked the bottom one.


 


  I'm with you on this but as you probably knows the pictures does not do it justice.  Both look great.


----------



## hodgjy

I like the solid gray the best.


----------



## speeddeacon

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I agree.  He lets his fanboyism guide his reviews.  And, his website is one big advertisement where he whores himself out for donations.


 


  At least he has a good ear for amps, unless he's just trying to get a freebie from Jack!


----------



## MacedonianHero

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2012-woo-audio
   
  Great new Woo products.


----------



## Golfnutz

Taken with the Nikon D7000. Shows you how bad a photographer I am.
   
  Anyway, Steve Eddy (Q-Audio) is a great guy. Makes a nice product too.


----------



## Silent One

Unseen in the photo, I'd opt for the fourth one, jc9394 - the black on black pattern.
   
   
  ________________
   
*Etta James - R.I.P.*


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Unseen in the photo, I'd opt for the fourth one, jc9394 - the black on black pattern.
> 
> 
> ________________
> ...


 


   
  Not an option.  There is no bling factor, I want some bling when it is plug into Woo.


----------



## danska

Guys and Gals,
   
  I'm going to be selling my 6F8G Tung-Sol BGRPs with the correct adapters for the WA6(-SE). If anyone is interested please contact me, I'm going to put them up in the FS section later tonight. They are a steal compared to the same version in the 6SN7, just got them tested today and they test out very good!


----------



## Golfnutz

Speaking of Sales....
   
  I've decided I'll be putting my WA22 up for sale soon.
   
  I think I'll take a shot at estats to see how I like them.
   
  Haven't fully decided between WES or BHSE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Speaking of Sales....
> 
> I've decided I'll be putting my WA22 up for sale soon.
> 
> ...


 


  PM SilentOne, this will get him going for sure...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> PM SilentOne, this will get him going for sure...


 


  +1


----------



## shipsupt

It's going to be close...  May-ish is about when I'm going to make the move!
   
  We've almost got claytonsf convinced to make it to the meet in February, we only need to secure his ride.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is great news! Hope 'shipsupt' hasn't moved across the pond to England by then...


----------



## hodgjy

For you Sylvania 7236 tube lovers out there, I think I stumbled upon something nice for you guys.
   
  I ordered a Sylvania 5998A on a whim just to see what it is all about.  When I got it, I started to piece things together.  It is in the same glass bottle and plastic base as your typical GE 6AS7GA.  However, its plate construction looks a lot like the Sylvania 7236.  So, just like the Tung-sol 5998A is the non-computer rated version of the Tung-sol 7236, I suspect the Sylvania 5998A is a non-computer rated version of the Sylvania 7236.
   
  I admit, my memory is a little fuzzy, but to me the plates on the Sylvania 5998A and 7236 look a like.  More importantly, I think they sound very similar.  There is the hint of coolness and dryness in the 5998A as there is in the 7236, and so is the bass.  The 7236 is known for its bass.  I can say the bass in the 5998A is on par.
   
  So, if you love the Sylvania 7236, and don't want to pay current prices, you may consider the 5998A.  PM me if you want to know where to get them for $17 each.  I'm reluctant to post a link for the general world to see, especially since this is a small operation.  And, their service was very, very slow.  But, it eventually came and arrived in great shape.


----------



## hodgjy

Also, I think I may stumbled up another source for true 5998.  I'm gonna order one to see for myself, and if it's a good experience, I'll let the info out to our Woo family here.
   
  Edit: NVM.  I did a search on the vendor, and it appears the reviews are not great.  I'd be willing to share the source of $45 5998 tubes if someone else wants to try their luck.  And, no, it's not the supplier in Florida that I will send another dime.  Different old guy.


----------



## Silent One

*To Do List--*
   
  Ok, let's see... send Private Messages to: Golfnutz; danska; the baker; the wine merchant; the fishmonger.


----------



## jc9394

And thank me for helping spend you money.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> And thank me for helping spend you money.


 


  You're good at that, you got me to buy the good tubes for the DNA Sonett.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> PM SilentOne, this will get him going for sure...


 







  Without a doubt! And thanks for wisely helping me invest in my future... what a consultant!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Speaking of Sales....
> 
> I've decided I'll be putting my WA22 up for sale soon.
> 
> ...


 


  I would put in the list the RSA A-10 Thunderbolt. I have listen to the SR-009 with all three and I prefer the A-10 over the WES and the BHSE. I listened to the WES and A-10 at Jude's office and then Jude and I listen to the BHSE at RMAF.


----------



## cifani090

I must say i love his CD player. Anyone plan on purchasing one?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I would put in the list the RSA A-10 Thunderbolt. I have listen to the SR-009 with all three and I prefer the A-10 over the WES and the BHSE. I listened to the WES and A-10 at Jude's office and then Jude and I listen to the BHSE at RMAF.


 

 I remember glossing over it, but never felt it suited my gut feeling (high cost, but not much info). Appreciate the suggestion though, thanks!


----------



## musicman59

I am here listening to my WA5-LE while browsing headfi. Right now it has a pair of 596 rectifiers, a pair of Sylvania NOS 6SN7WGT Brown Base and Chrome Top and a pair of EML 300B Mesh. I just finished Cat Stevens Tee For The Tiller Man and now I am going through Fleetwood Mac "White album" both in Hi Resolution from HDTracks. 
  I just had an eargasm listening Stevie sing Landslide


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> You're good at that, you got me to buy the good tubes for the DNA Sonett.


 

 Isn't worth it?  I will not recommend to buy a $300 power cable or interconnect.
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Without a doubt! And thanks for wisely helping me invest in my future... what a consultant!


 


   
  Freebie, normally I charge a consultant fee.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am here listening to my WA5-LE while browsing headfi. Right now it has a pair of 596 rectifiers, a pair of Sylvania NOS 6SN7WGT Brown Base and Chrome Top and a pair of EML 300B Mesh. I just finished Cat Stevens Tee For The Tiller Man and now I am going through Fleetwood Mac "White album" both in Hi Resolution from HDTracks.
> I just had an eargasm listening Stevie sing Landslide


 


   
  Same here except with WA22 (Mullard GZ34 metal base, Brimar CV1988, and GEC 6AS7G) listening to Kelly Chen.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I must say i love his CD player. Anyone plan on purchasing one?


 


   
  I was until I decided to upgrade my DAC to MKII.


----------



## hodgjy

Cat Stevens sounds great through my WA3.  Some of his recordings are very strident, and the WA3 tames them and brings out his sweet voice.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am here listening to my WA5-LE while browsing headfi. Right now it has a pair of 596 rectifiers, a pair of Sylvania NOS 6SN7WGT Brown Base and Chrome Top and a pair of EML 300B Mesh. I just finished Cat Stevens Tee For The Tiller Man and now I am going through Fleetwood Mac "White album" both in Hi Resolution from HDTracks.
> I just had an eargasm listening Stevie sing Landslide


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Cat Stevens sounds great through my WA3.  Some of his recordings are very strident, and the WA3 tames them and brings out his sweet voice.


 

 This HiRes (24/192) sounds incredible. Tea for the Tillerman is my favorite album from him and this one sound very natural and real.


----------



## hodgjy

I exclusively spin CDs, so I don't have any of the high res recordings.  Part of my reluctance to move to computer audio is I'm too lazy to re-rip everything and I also find something very gratifying about spinning CDs.  It's like it takes me back to my childhood years spinning vinyl.  I just like the process of putting a disc in the player and spinning it.
   
  But I suspect you are right in that the high res recordings would trump mine in terms of the strident nature.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> This HiRes (24/192) sounds incredible. Tea for the Tillerman is my favorite album from him and this one sound very natural and real.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Also, I think I may stumbled up another source for true 5998.  I'm gonna order one to see for myself, and if it's a good experience, I'll let the info out to our Woo family here.
> 
> Edit: NVM.  I did a search on the vendor, and it appears the reviews are not great.  I'd be willing to share the source of $45 5998 tubes if someone else wants to try their luck.  And, no, it's not the supplier in Florida that I will send another dime.  Different old guy.


 


  If it's who I think it is I could never even get those people to reply to my emails.  Thankfully I bought two very nice pairs of 5998 from an eBay seller some time ago that actually were true NOS (this isn't the same person who has 5998 tubes listed on eBay right now for the record).  I paid out the nose for them, but I don't regret doing it.  The prices have gone up another hundred dollars since so there you have it.


----------



## hodgjy

Nebraska?
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If it's who I think it is I could never even get those people to reply to my emails.  Thankfully I bought two very nice pairs of 5998 from an eBay seller some time ago that actually were true NOS (this isn't the same person who has 5998 tubes listed on eBay right now for the record).  I paid out the nose for them, but I don't regret doing it.  The prices have gone up another hundred dollars since so there you have it.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Nebraska?


 
  Ah, no.  I guess we're talking about two different questionable sellers then.


----------



## hodgjy

It's a shame about the 5998.  It was a tube not made in very high volumes to begin with, and now it's basically been hunted to extinction.  And on top of that, many sellers feel compelled to pass off 5998 tubes they normally wouldn't to feed the demand.  And there also seems to be some deadbeat vendors sitting on some of them, too, which makes it frustrating for us hobbyists to get a hold of some.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ah, no.  I guess we're talking about two different questionable sellers then.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm going to have my OTL amp modified to give the 5998 a more ideal plate voltage so it can operate more in its linear range.  As good a reputation the tube has, it amazes me that everybody listens to it in a circuit that isn't actually ideal for it.  I won't know until I actually get the mod done and hear it, but I'm excited and suspect the 5998 will sound even better.  If I'm right I'll probably never put a 6AS7 in the amp again.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm curious, what is your current voltage and what will be the new voltage?  Will you manually bias it or will your design be a self-bias?
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm going to have my OTL amp modified to give the 5998 a more ideal plate voltage so it can operate more in its linear range.  As good a reputation the tube has, it amazes me that everybody listens to it in a circuit that isn't actually ideal for it.  I won't know until I actually get the mod done and hear it, but I'm excited and suspect the 5998 will sound even better.  If I'm right I'll probably never put a 6AS7 in the amp again.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The person who built the amp for me will be doing the mod, it's still a ways over my head to do alone sadly.  I believe the nominal plate voltage on the 6AS7 is 250V and we'll be lowering that to 150V for the 5998 which will make the tube draw more current and lower the output impedance of the amp.  It will have the side effect of making the amp more friendly for low impedance headphones, but my goal was to just give the 5998 the operating voltage it wants so it operates with less distortion and more linearity. 
   
  The design is self-biasing.  It will be achieved by using two sets of switchable cathode resistors, so the amp can be optimized for either the 6AS7 or 5998 at the flip of a switch.
   
  I have this bad habit of coming off like I know everything when I'm very much still an amateur and always learning.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm basically just repeating what I learned in conversation with the amazing person who's been helping me with all of this.


----------



## Rawrbington

what will we all do when it really does go extinct?
  
  and why does it seem like every tube dealer is in florida?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Nebraska?


 

 You're not talking about another word used instead of Overstock are you?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> and why does it seem like every tube dealer is in florida?


 

 I've wondered this myself.


----------



## hodgjy

Sounds pretty awesome.  Be sure to let us know when this happens and what the end results are.
   
  By chance, do you know if the WA3 runs the power tube at 250V?  I have noticed that when I run a traditional 6AS7G tube in my amp, the transformer gets warmer than it does when running 5998, 7236, and 6N13C tubes.  I've always assumed it was from how each tubes draw off the transformer.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The person who built the amp for me will be doing the mod, it's still a ways over my head to do alone sadly.  I believe the nominal plate voltage on the 6AS7 is 250V and we'll be lowering that to 150V for the 5998 which will make the tube draw more current and lower the output impedance of the amp.  It will have the side effect of making the amp more friendly for low impedance headphones, but my goal was to just give the 5998 the operating voltage it wants so it operates with less distortion and more linearity.
> 
> The design is self-biasing.  It will be achieved by using two sets of switchable cathode resistors, so the amp can be optimized for either the 6AS7 or 5998 at the flip of a switch.
> 
> I have this bad habit of coming off like I know everything when I'm very much still an amateur and always learning.


----------



## hodgjy

Surplus?
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> You're not talking about another word used instead of Overstock are you?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sounds pretty awesome.  Be sure to let us know when this happens and what the end results are.
> 
> By chance, do you know if the WA3 runs the power tube at 250V?  I have noticed that when I run a traditional 6AS7G tube in my amp, the transformer gets warmer than it does when running 5998, 7236, and 6N13C tubes.  I've always assumed it was from how each tubes draw off the transformer.


 

 I remember this got argued about a bit in the 6AS7 tube rolling thread.  I believe I understand what is going on, but take me with a grain of salt.    Basically it got asserted that because the 5998 current draw is about the same as the 6AS7 we couldn't have been right about the temperature being lower.  But, the trick is there is more than one kind of current to talk about.  The heater current is indeed about the same, at 2.4A vs 2.5A, but what nobody mentioned is that at 250V a 5998 draws less *plate current* than a 6AS7.  At least I think so, and if I'm right it explains why it runs cooler in a circuit designed for a 6AS7.  After the mod I suspect the 5998 will be hotter.  In my amp the 5998 runs a lot cooler than a 6AS7, the difference is pretty big actually.
   
  I'm not sure about the WA3 and its operating voltages.  It's understandable that they don't publish that kind of information, but if it helps to know I've been told by people who have been inside the Woo amps that they tend to run tubes conservatively in general which would mean a lower plate voltage.  It might have the side effect of making the circuit friendlier to the 5998 actually, but there are other values in play too so who knows.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.  I remember some of the discussion about the 5998 and heat, but what you say makes sense and I feel better about not being crazy for believing it.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I remember this got argued about a bit in the 6AS7 tube rolling thread.  I believe I understand what is going on, but take me with a grain of salt.    Basically it got asserted that because the 5998 current draw is about the same as the 6AS7 we couldn't have been right about the temperature being lower.  But, the trick is there is more than one kind of current to talk about.  The heater current is indeed about the same, at 2.4A vs 2.5A, but what nobody mentioned is that at 250V a 5998 draws less *plate current* than a 6AS7.  At least I think so, and if I'm right it explains why it runs cooler in a circuit designed for a 6AS7.  After the mod I suspect the 5998 will be hotter.  In my amp the 5998 runs a lot cooler than a 6AS7, the difference is pretty big actually.
> 
> I'm not sure about the WA3 and its operating voltages.  It's understandable that they don't publish that kind of information, but if it helps to know I've been told by people who have been inside the Woo amps that they tend to run tubes conservatively in general which would mean a lower plate voltage.  It might have the side effect of making the circuit friendlier to the 5998 actually, but there are other values in play too so who knows.


----------



## Rawrbington

i will at least agree that the 5998 is a cool running tube.
  i feel like i could touch it with my finger while its on and it wouldn't even come close to burning or hurting.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my TS5998s run really hot. touching them anywhere but the top for more than a second (3 seconds on top) will cause serious burns


----------



## hodgjy

All my tubes still get hot, but I noticed the entire amp, especially the transformer housing, run cooler when using the 5998 vs 6AS7G tubes.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i will at least agree that the 5998 is a cool running tube.
> i feel like i could touch it with my finger while its on and it wouldn't even come close to burning or hurting.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Surplus?


 

 Cough..sales..Cough


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> All my tubes still get hot, but I noticed the entire amp, especially the transformer housing, run cooler when using the 5998 vs 6AS7G tubes.


 

 But don't you turn up the volume (drawing more current), when using the 6AS7G vs 5998?


----------



## hodgjy

Good point.  I do turn them up.  But, I tend to listen to music at quite low volumes, so I don't end up changing the pot much.  As such, you're still right.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> But don't you turn up the volume (drawing more current), when using the 6AS7G vs 5998?


----------



## hodgjy

We are on the same page.  I've seen enough bad reviews about them that now I'm scared away from that place. 
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Cough..sales..Cough


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> We are on the same page.  I've seen enough bad reviews about them that now I'm scared away from that place.


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/17370#post_8015285
   
  Check out 17373


----------



## Golfnutz

One thing I absolutely love about buying CD's today. There are so many greatest hits CD out there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am here listening to my WA5-LE while browsing headfi. Right now it has a pair of 596 rectifiers, a pair of Sylvania NOS 6SN7WGT Brown Base and Chrome Top and a pair of EML 300B Mesh. I just finished Cat Stevens Tee For The Tiller Man and now I am going through Fleetwood Mac "White album" both in Hi Resolution from HDTracks.
> I just had an eargasm listening Stevie sing Landslide


 


  Your choices in components and accessories seem to be yielding HUGE dividends!


----------



## hodgjy

Beat me to it by 3 weeks!  So funny, I remember reading that post, but after reading your description, I never bothered clicking on the link.  I'm glad we agree on that vendor.  It's always been my policy to trust my gut, and that vendor just didn't seem right.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/17370#post_8015285
> 
> Check out 17373


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Same here except with WA22 (Mullard GZ34 metal base, Brimar CV1988, and GEC 6AS7G) listening to Kelly Chen.


 


  Hmmm, I seem to be diggin' jc9394's playlist a lil' better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And by the way, thanks for saving me a pix of Faye inside your photo album...


----------



## hodgjy

What did you pick up?
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> One thing I absolutely love about buying CD's today. There are so many greatest hits CD out there.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> But don't you turn up the volume (drawing more current), when using the 6AS7G vs 5998?


 

 I believe the plate current is constant for a given voltage as far as the tubes go.  This is different from the resistance provided by the volume pot.  Again just my rudimentary understanding, and I may be incorrect.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Beat me to it by 3 weeks!  So funny, I remember reading that post, but after reading your description, I never bothered clicking on the link.  I'm glad we agree on that vendor.  It's always been my policy to trust my gut, and that vendor just didn't seem right.


 

 I still wish I lived near that place. I wonder if they would be blue?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what will we all do when it really does go extinct?
> 
> *and why does it seem like every tube dealer is in florida?*


 







  No need for Fibonacci, just check the laws on the books States have...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> What did you pick up?


 
   
  Stevie Nicks, Doors, War, Billy Joel, Sarah Mclachlan, Steve Miller Band, Talking Heads, Bob Seger, Steely Dan, Cat Stevens (Icon), Crowded House, The Eagles, Deep Purple
   
  Pretty much picked all these up within the last year, no idea when they came out (fine print is too small now).


----------



## hodgjy

Very nice acquisition.  Very talented artists there.
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Stevie Nicks, Doors, War, Billy Joel, Sarah Mclachlan, Steve Miller Band, Talking Heads, Bob Seger, Steely Dan, Cat Stevens (Icon), Crowded House, The Eagles, Deep Purple
> 
> Pretty much picked all these up within the last year, no idea when they came out (fine print is too small now).


----------



## hodgjy

P.S.  I also read on the web about Arcturus resorting to B stock after a while.  
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I still wish I lived near that place. I wonder if they would be blue?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No need for Fibonacci, just check the laws on the books States have...


 

 Such as.......?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Such as.......?


 


  At first glance, Tax, Licensing, Commercial codes and others can show what kind of businesses will thrive (um, legally), what they can and cannot do and how costly to operate for example. One could learn a lot without having to prematurely roll up their sleeves... and resort to using Fibonacci Numbers.


----------



## Silent One

*Solved!*
   
  You're just the person I was looking for, Xcalibur255. I'm in the first hour of tonight's listening session - breaking in my new WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax digital cable. Remember the HUGE disparity I reported between the Tung-Sol's when paired with the EML Glass and the Mighty '596?' Gone!
   
  Not to say they do not sound different, they do. But the '596' pairing was holding me back I felt... a lot! I recently reached out to an audio engineer/designer (Steve/Empirical Audio) and after a few exchanges about the importance of timing in digital cables, he made a couple of suggestions. And they paid off. 
   
  I shortened my USB cable at the suggestion of my audio consultant (aphroditecu29) a few weeks back (from 1.0 Meter to 0.5 Meter). Once I build my server, I may go 6" even. And the engineer got me to try a longer Coax digital cable (1.0 Meter to 1.5 Meter). Timing is very critical in Computer Audio. With the Coax now in place, I'm only now beginning to hear what you described about the Tung-Sol's.
   
  I initially found the pairing to be like dancers fighting to see who leads, who follows and stepping on each other's toes. With the Ray's and '596' is wasn't so apparent and didn't get the attention it could have. The TS/596 pairing simply brought an existing problem to light. All is better inside the listening room tonight. Played some B.B. King and thought I was gonna die! 3-D, holographic and all of that... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Certainly it's going to need some hours... but tonight gonna blast some tracks and have fun. Currently playing B52's - "53 Miles West of Venus" @ volume 10 (not really...). Up next, Faye Wong's "Bored" and then Billy Cobham @ 24/96kHz.


----------



## Silent One

Just previewed Natacha Atlas - "Haram Aleyk".... _think I'll pass out now..._


----------



## Silent One

Anyone know if the wires from both the '596' and 6F8G will cause interference? I know this just came up about a week ago... _but this thread flies!_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to infected mushroom on my LCD-2 /WA6-SE combo,
   
  you hear so many details in the songs, and the bass is just amazing!
   
  punchy and very clean.
   
  listen to infected mushroom's "avratz" or "dancing with kadafi", or even "never ever land" to see what i mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  on that last track, if i raise the volume on my WA6-SE to the max, the bass really hits hard, it makes the LCD-2 shake!


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> listening to infected mushroom on my LCD-2 /WA6-SE combo,
> 
> you hear so many details in the songs, and the bass is just amazing!
> 
> ...


 
   
  I asume you are not actually wearing the LCD's at that volume!


----------



## Gabrielisc

Infected mushroom on the hd800s make the boom like nothing else.
  Love their production quality, just too bad you can't get that stuff at 24 bit


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Anyone know if the wires from both the '596' and 6F8G will cause interference? I know this just came up about a week ago... _but this thread flies!_


 


 I think it's hit and miss. I know JC had it, and I had it too. Others reported not having it. I don't think you'll know until you try it. If you don't have a different rectifier tube in case you do get it, then it would be a waste. Check out the return policy...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> I think it's hit and miss. I know JC had it, and I had it too. Others reported not having it. I don't think you'll know until you try it. If you don't have a different rectifier tube in case you do get it, then it would be a waste. Check out the return policy...


 






  I think I'll shut down my listening session and sleep on it until Noon; consult with jc9394, Clayton SF and 2359glenn. On a brighter note, you ever buy/rent/see the film "Stop Making Sense" on DVD? Or get the soundtrack? _Brilliantly conceived and executed in real-time._


----------



## cacatalysis

I tried a couple of pairs of 6f8gs (sylvania and national union) with a 596,, and did not hear any interference.  Since I got both the sylvania 6f8g and the 596 from Gulfnutz, it seems like a hit and miss thing.


----------



## Rumbleripper

HI Everyone:
   
  I am wondering if anyone has tried the LCD-2/3's out of the K1000 connector on the WA5 (not the LE version) with a balanced XLR connector?
  Firstly, will this work? Secondly, is there any sonic advantage with this opposed to using the regular ¼" connector?
   
  Reason I am asking is that I currently have a WA22 that I am using to drive my LCD-3's with a Norse Audio balanced cable. I have just purchased Modena's WA5 here and it should be arriving Monday or Tuesday depending on when customs clears the package. I have heard that you can use the K1000 connector for the HE-6's, so I am assuming the LCD-3's could also be driven that way.
   
  I will know once my unit arrives and will report back, but while I sit here waiting….! Time sometimes just goes by soooo slowly.
   
  Thanks for any input.
   
  Rumble


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> I tried a couple of pairs of 6f8gs (sylvania and national union) with a 596,, and did not hear any interference.  Since I got both the sylvania 6f8g and the 596 from Golfnutz, it seems like a hit and miss thing.


 


 Interesting, that means the amp or other interference near the amp (computer, computer monitor, printer, etc).
   
  JC9394, you should try turning everything in the surrounding area off, and try both adapters again to see if the interference goes away.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Interesting, that means the amp or other interference near the amp (computer, computer monitor, printer, etc).
> 
> JC9394, you should try turning everything in the surrounding area off, and try both adapters again to see if the interference goes away.


 


  I did, my WA22 is on my night stand and there are no computer equipments near by.  I use PWD to stream flac wireless from the NAS in the office.  Originally I thought it is the NU but it turns out all my 6F8G are the same but just the NU are more noticeable.  Once I swap out the 596 with any other rectifier I have, it is quiet as a mouse.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> HI Everyone:
> 
> I am wondering if anyone has tried the LCD-2/3's out of the K1000 connector on the WA5 (not the LE version) with a balanced XLR connector?
> Firstly, will this work? Secondly, is there any sonic advantage with this opposed to using the regular ¼" connector?
> ...


 

 Someone here tried before and it works fine but not gain too much on LCD-2/3, the HE6 will benefit much more.  Congrats on the WA5, I was considering if before too.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, my mailwoman delivered my GE 6AS7GA tube this morning.  I rolled it in and started giving it a listen.
   




   
  What an amazing little tube.  Straight out of the box with no real burn in, it sounds amazing.  Warm, but not overly warm.  Sweet mids.  Very holographic.  Great sound stage.  Very nice, layered bass.  
   
  I can't believe this tube isn't talked about more often around here.  I think this one will be staying in my amp for a bit, and not just to save on the life of my 5998.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The person who built the amp for me will be doing the mod, it's still a ways over my head to do alone sadly.  I believe the nominal plate voltage on the 6AS7 is 250V and we'll be lowering that to 150V for the 5998 which will make the tube draw more current and lower the output impedance of the amp.  It will have the side effect of making the amp more friendly for low impedance headphones, but my goal was to just give the 5998 the operating voltage it wants so it operates with less distortion and more linearity.
> 
> The design is self-biasing.  It will be achieved by using two sets of switchable cathode resistors, so the amp can be optimized for either the 6AS7 or 5998 at the flip of a switch.
> 
> ...


 

     Actually it is the cathode resistor that is going to be changed to 105 ohm from 250 ohm for the 6AS7. The plate voltage will stay the same the two half's of the 6AS7/5998 are in
  series fed with 240 volts so each half gets 120 volts. The plate voltage will stay the same but the plate current will go up with the lowered cathode resistor value. The cathode resistor
  makes the grid bias voltage by lowering the resistance in the cathode resistor the negative grid voltage goes down increasing the current through the tube.
      The 5998 is drawing less current in a amp made for a 6AS7 except in OTL amps that the 6AS7 is just used as a cathode follower that most OTL amps out there are.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Someone here tried before and it works fine but not gain too much on LCD-2/3, the HE6 will benefit much more.  Congrats on the WA5, I was considering if before too.


 


  Hi jc9394.
   
  Thanks for your input. I will take some photos when I receive the unit and give my impressions here about the two different inputs. 
  One of the reasons I went with the WA5 vs the WA5LE is that i am under the impression that it can also drive the WEE so that down the road I can try the STAX 009's with my amp without having to buy a whole new amp. 
  Also Modena's WA5 was modified with a Sub-out connection and am thinking about trying to use my LCD-3's with a subwoofer to get the full feel of the music. Will be interesting to see how it works out. Again will post up when I receive the unit.
   
  Peace.
   
  Rumble


----------



## speeddeacon

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> HI Everyone:
> 
> I am wondering if anyone has tried the LCD-2/3's out of the K1000 connector on the WA5 (not the LE version) with a balanced XLR connector?
> Firstly, will this work? Secondly, is there any sonic advantage with this opposed to using the regular ¼" connector?
> ...


 


   
  Rumble,
   
  Be sure to let us know how the two Woos compare on your LCD-3s.
   
  I very nearly bought that very amp the day he listed it but was a bit over my budget and I wanted a true balanced design so bought a 22.  I told Modena I would be kicking myself for passing it up!
   
  Love your avatar BTW.  I ride a duc myself.  Get that 5D out and post some pix when you get the 5!


----------



## jamesnz

The dac and transport are now up for preorder on the woo site! Who's getting one?


----------



## jamesnz

From the dac thread:
   
  Pre-order is now accepted. There is a limited quantity in the first batch. You should take advantage of this amazing offer.
   
http://wooaudio.com/products/wds1.html
http://wooaudio.com/products/wtp1.html
   
  Sincerely,
 Jack


----------



## john57

I like the Woo CD transport better than the older Wadia transport that was at the RMAF show in Denver. The Woo CD transport operates quite smooth and quickly and the smaller remote has a good weight feel to it.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hi jc9394.
> 
> Thanks for your input. I will take some photos when I receive the unit and give my impressions here about the two different inputs.
> One of the reasons I went with the WA5 vs the WA5LE is that i am under the impression that it can also drive the WEE so that down the road I can try the STAX 009's with my amp without having to buy a whole new amp.
> ...


 



 Congrats Rumble on your purchase. I have the SRD 7 MKII and the WA5 drives them with allot of authority. However my SRM-TW1 drives my phones slightly better with more detail as a amp on its own.


----------



## GouldPhoto

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I think I'll shut down my listening session and sleep on it until Noon; consult with jc9394, Clayton SF and 2359glenn. On a brighter note, you ever buy/rent/see the film "Stop Making Sense" on DVD? Or get the soundtrack? _Brilliantly conceived and executed in real-time._


 


 Have that in my DVD collection and watch/listen to it every couple of months, as you have so accurately stated _Brilliantly conceived and performed_


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Solved!*
> 
> You're just the person I was looking for, Xcalibur255. I'm in the first hour of tonight's listening session - breaking in my new WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax digital cable. Remember the HUGE disparity I reported between the Tung-Sol's when paired with the EML Glass and the Mighty '596?' Gone!
> 
> ...


 

 There we have that whole thing about understanding the big picture with enough time.  The Tung Sols simply reveal more musical information in my experience, in more ways than just what we call detail.  It really takes some time to tune into it I've found.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Actually it is the cathode resistor that is going to be changed to 105 ohm from 250 ohm for the 6AS7. The plate voltage will stay the same the two half's of the 6AS7/5998 are in
> series fed with 240 volts so each half gets 120 volts. The plate voltage will stay the same but the plate current will go up with the lowered cathode resistor value. The cathode resistor
> makes the grid bias voltage by lowering the resistance in the cathode resistor the negative grid voltage goes down increasing the current through the tube.
> The 5998 is drawing less current in a amp made for a 6AS7 except in OTL amps that the 6AS7 is just used as a cathode follower that most OTL amps out there are.


 

 A helpful explanation as always Glenn. Thanks.  Seems my understanding was not correct after all.  I'm very much looking forward to hearing what improvements it might bring.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hi jc9394.
> 
> Thanks for your input. I will take some photos when I receive the unit and give my impressions here about the two different inputs.
> One of the reasons I went with the WA5 vs the WA5LE is that i am under the impression that it can also drive the *WEE *so that down the road I can try the *STAX 009's* with my amp without having to buy a whole new amp.
> ...


 


  That is exactly I was thinking too but in order for to to afford it, I have to sell either the WA22 or beta22.  In the end, I love them so much and for the price of 009, I will probably go back to speakers.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Solved!*
> 
> You're just the person I was looking for, Xcalibur255. I'm in the first hour of tonight's listening session - breaking in my new WireWorld Silver Starlight Coax digital cable. Remember the HUGE disparity I reported between the Tung-Sol's when paired with the EML Glass and the Mighty '596?' Gone!
> 
> ...


 


  Does shortening the usb cable change the sound that much?? my usb to dac is like 15 ft cable cause my audio gear isn't that close to my computer setup. I always thought when it comes to digital data as long as it gets to the destination unaltered its all good...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Does shortening the usb cable change the sound that much?? my usb to dac is like 15 ft cable cause my audio gear isn't that close to my computer setup. I always thought when it comes to digital data as long as it gets to the destination unaltered its all good...


 

 Greetings Ahzari~
   
  I just walked in and unfortunate for me, I have to leave again. I'll need to add some clarity to my post, so I am not misconstrued. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will do so later. But the quick and the dirty? Dividends paid are system dependent. And due to constraints, some members can only configure their system a certain way at the time. If this is your case with the USB cable, I wouldn't worry too much and would enjoy the music.
   
  Still, reviewing your system may yield some hidden bonuses. Also, if you re-read what I posted, you'll notice I attributed gains made to two changes, not solely the USB cable.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings Ahzari~
> 
> I just walked in and unfortunate for me, I have to leave again. I'll need to add some clarity to my post, so I am not misconstrued.
> 
> ...


 
   
  haha yea, I think i skipped over the coax comment cause I was stuck on the usb comment... it actually always made me wonder, i try to keep cables as short as possible, but hopefully in the future I'll be able to have a more finely tuned setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Thanks for the info though.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, darn it.  My new GE 6AS7GA makes my amp hum in the right channel.  I don't think it's anything to do with the tube.  My WA3 has some weird tube voodoo.  It seems whenever I put an American version of a true 6AS7G tube in, the right channel hums.  It only hums on American 6AS7G tubes.  It doesn't hum with 5998, 5998A, 7236, 6080, or Russion 6N13C.
   
  Weird.  I just don't get it.  I've been trying to find tube combos that sound good so I can save on my 5998 and its backup.  Oh well, I guess I'll just have to roll in the 5998 and use it until it dies.


----------



## Xcalibur255

If your 5998 was NOS it should last a long time.  I wouldn't worry too much.  Have you tried a Chatham 6AS7?
   
  It's weird how the russian tubes are consistently quieter.  Must be in the construction, but they sound bad IMO so I'd rather have the hum personally.


----------



## hodgjy

I bought two TS 5998 NOS.  I should be good for a while.  I am a compulsive tube collector, so I just can't help it!
   
  I do have a Chatham 6AS7G, and that also hums.  There is certainly some black magic going on with my amp and 6AS7G tubes.  The others don't make a peep.  I know the Russian tubes aren't well liked around here, but I don't mind them too much.  They are nice and warm, but they do have a hint of a veil.  Not too bad, though.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> If your 5998 was NOS it should last a long time.  I wouldn't worry too much.  Have you tried a Chatham 6AS7?
> 
> It's weird how the russian tubes are consistently quieter.  Must be in the construction, but they sound bad IMO so I'd rather have the hum personally.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Getting about 6-8 duds in a row cured my tube collecting fun pretty fast I'm afraid.  I did have a lot of fun getting into 6SN7s I must admit, and with the new amp it only needs a single tube which makes it even easier.
   
  So long as my Chathams hold up I'm probably more or less done hunting 6AS7s I think.  I'm hoping the next output tube I will need to seek will treat me better than the 6AS7 has.


----------



## hodgjy

I don't have enough data to conclude if all my 6AS7Gs are duds.  It is very coincidental that all my non-6AS7Gs work.  I wish I knew, but based on odds alone, I would assume my amp has issues with those tubes rather than all the tubes being duds.  Who knows.
   
  I do think I am done rolling power tubes.  I'll use the 5998s until they die.  Then move to my TS5998A.  Then to my Sylvania 5998A.  Then the Russians.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Actually by duds I mean tubes that had shorts.  They were unusable and had to be thrown out.  The noisy ones that followed was just the icing on the cake, but eventually I got to some good ones.  My NOS 5998 are well behaved though and I'm thankful for that.  Aside from their bizarre tendency to pick up electrical interference from my PC monitors anyway.


----------



## hodgjy

Tubes definitely are interesting.  A little voodoo here and there makes for a great hobby.


----------



## Silent One

Things can get real weird real fast inside the listening room. Summer 2010, my newly minted Woo was dead silent. And would be so for another four months. Inside the room were three tv monitors with splitters on Comcast and a computer. By autumn, there were now five lcd screens and two computers. And complete silence. Feeling good about it all, I decided to rearrange the room. And would go on to be haunted by electrical interference the next couple of months.
   
  I returned every piece of gear, cable and accessory to their original positions..._ to no effect. How is that possible?! _Out with the three tv's and splitters, achieving a partial reduction in noise. Moved the hi-speed router further away. This helped some. Going the extra mile, I removed most of the metal inside the room (furnishings) - Tall/wide Baker's rack; file cabinet; desk; stool and so on. Interference was now near negligible. 
   
  But, what I find baffling is how silent the room was until I came along and disturbed it. And reversing my actions did absolutely nothing. Go figure!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gouldphoto said:


> Have that in my DVD collection and watch/listen to it every couple of months, as you have so accurately stated _Brilliantly conceived and performed_


 

 The first time I saw the film, I had no knowledge of the stage production and how it would proceed. No one mentioned it to me. The moment David Byrne walked out and sat the boom box down, he had my attention for the rest of the film. Engaged, I kept wondering what was to come next...


----------



## Xcalibur255

I've been looking forward to the day I can upgrade my DAC to an async-USB solution and get as much of the signal and processing out of the PC as possible, but your experience with the USB cable has me a little spooked again SilentOne.
   
  It's as though the PC was just not meant to be a hifi playback medium, despite the unbeatable convenience.  I consider it, as my source, the weakest link in my system by far now, but chasing all new ghosts due to what is supposed to be an upgrade doesn't really sound that appealing either.
   
  Then again, USB audio is still young, I'm sure the brighter minds involved in it will continue to make progress.
   
  The upgrade is a looooong way down the road so better options may very well exist by then.


----------



## hodgjy

Now I'm getting frustrated.  It appears that my amp is now humming with my 5998s.  At first I thought it was the source.  Unplugged.  Nope.  Then turned off all the lights and electronics.  Nope.
   
  I'm thinking it may be dirty power, so now I'm trying another power outlet.  It was previously hooked up to an outlet where the top plug is controlled by a light switch, but the bottom was not.  I had it plugged into the bottom.  I'm trying an outlet free of all light switches.
   
  Well, the good news is my GE 6AS7GA isn't the cause of the hum.  The bad news is it could be the amp itself.  Damnit.  We'll see if it's the outlet.  Cross your fingers it is.
   
  Now I remember why tubes can be so frustrating.


----------



## Draygonn

jamesnz said:


> The dac and transport are now up for preorder on the woo site! Who's getting one?



I'm not an early adopter but I'll probably get the DAC eventually. I'll wait for some reviews/comparisons and for any kinks to get ironed out.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, it's not the outlet.
   
  I give up.  I'm seriously considering throwing my amp and all the tubes through the window.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Does changing the driver tube affect it at all?  I'm guessing you've done the obvious trouble shooting such as eliminating ground loops and such already.


----------



## hodgjy

I've tried three sets of driver tubes tonight.  It's not your typical 60 hz ground loop.  It's a faint buzz, that comes and goes.  I would guess it's between 100-200 hz.  It's like a static buzz that doesn't change with the volume pot, but it does oscillate louder and softer randomly.
   
  GRRRRR.
   
   
  Thanks for your advice.  If you have anymore, please let me know.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Does changing the driver tube affect it at all?  I'm guessing you've done the obvious trouble shooting such as eliminating ground loops and such already.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Hmm.  That eliminates power supply noise I would think.  Though not necessarily, maybe it could be a residual harmonic of something that's getting filtered or canceled out?  That'd make it either 120hz or 240hz.  Just taking shots in the dark here really.  I have a couple of tubes that hum in that range, and it's definitely the tubes.  Some produce a high pitch whine too, so it just depends. 
   
  You don't have any other electronic devices near the amp right?  I remember you saying you don't have any monitors close to it.  I've discovered even the 6AS7 can pick up interference from LCD devices.  Seems to be a tung sol thing actually.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> haha yea, I think i skipped over the coax comment cause I was stuck on the usb comment... it actually always made me wonder, i try to keep cables as short as possible, but hopefully in the future I'll be able to have a more finely tuned setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, it's natural for us all to just wanna get to the dirt! And read only what pertains to us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was merely attempting rumors (bad ones at that) from being launched -_ "You hear what SilentOne said about USB cables? What an idiot!"_
   
  Of course, some may think that anyway. But I'm indifferent - to each their own, I've got a beautiful vacuum tube amplifier to sooth me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In general, with USB cables the shorter the better. All cables are susceptible to being infected with noise, acting like antennas and/or broadcasting (power cords, USB cables and interconnects).
   
  If you were streaming audio, you would not want to go past 16 feet (5M) with the USB cable. In your case, your Peachtree uses the ESS Sabre chip, which has built-in Jitter reduction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another example of the USB cable and any problems or benefits being device dependent.
   
  Speaking of devices, some DAC owners have discovered gains by eliminating the power and/or ground leg inside the USB cable. But a DAC must be able to power its internal USB receiving unit. Most USB cables are of dual design so that it can use BUS power from the computer or from the DAC or external drive and AC. 
   
  Now, back to my own USB cable. @ 173 hours, it's just about done cookin'. I placed it into service 18 November. And while I have not heard any significant changes with the half-meter reduction, my focus isn't really on individual gains and tweaks. It could very well have a positive effect on the system overall. A designer (or audio boutique owner) stated about a year or so ago that all tweaks should be subtle. Anything larger means your system was flawed to begin with. I'm in agreement with this.
   
  Although, the Coax still needs time on the clock, I do think the change in length made an apparent difference. May have piggybacked on the shortened USB cable or on its own. What I know for sure is that post 173 hours on the USB cable but with the 1.0 Meter Coax sounded one way. Going 1.5 Meter with the same Coax has showed noticeable improvement. And more importantly, It helped sort out a new tube paring that was in conflict.
   
  I kept hearing about all these wonderful things being heard by others who had or listened to the storied Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates. My own pair tested good - so why we no hear some of that glory?! I knew something wasn't right but couldn't quite put my finger on it! The Tung-Sol/596 pairing presented me with a challenge not yet seen on my amp. No issues with the EML, why the _Mighty '596?!'_




  I hadn't a clue. I was simply researching to make sure I had some of the basics covered, like isolation, proper cable length and so on. With a simple cable adjustment (ok, it still cost money!), I am finally able to believe and agree with much I've heard about the Tung-Sol's - no longer thinking my fellow members are crazy! (joking) Simply because I wasn't hearing any of it.
   
  Steve Nugent published an article on "Why Longer is generally better for an S/PDIF Cable."
   http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm


----------



## hodgjy

I have an LCD tv in the room, but I turned it off.  I turned off all electronics and even the lights.  I have no idea what could be causing it.  It may have started months ago, but I didn't pick up on it until I started tube rolling lately.  I can't say.  I always assumed my amp was quiet, but it may not have been for some time.  It was the most noticeable today, that's all.
   
  I've tried a couple of power tubes and several driver tubes.  The static hum is the same no matter what tube combo I throw at it. 
   
  Sadly, it appears the noise is being caused by itself.  Or, the entire power supply to my apartment is dirty, which could be a possibility, but I don't remember this noise in the past.
   
  I can't hear it when the music is playing, so it's not a tragedy.  But, it annoys me to all heck.
   
  For Sale:
  Woo 3+
  Priced to move!!  Assembly required.  Skills with a welder necessary to put it all the pieces back together.
   

  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Hmm.  That eliminates power supply noise I would think.  Though not necessarily, maybe it could be a residual harmonic of something that's getting filtered or canceled out?  That'd make it either 120hz or 240hz.  Just taking shots in the dark here really.  I have a couple of tubes that hum in that range, and it's definitely the tubes.  Some produce a high pitch whine too, so it just depends.
> 
> You don't have any other electronic devices near the amp right?  I remember you saying you don't have any monitors close to it.  I've discovered even the 6AS7 can pick up interference from LCD devices.  Seems to be a tung sol thing actually.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I've been looking forward to the day I can upgrade my DAC to an async-USB solution and get as much of the signal and processing out of the PC as possible, but your experience with the USB cable has me a little spooked again SilentOne.
> 
> It's as though the PC was just not meant to be a hifi playback medium, despite the unbeatable convenience.  I consider it, as my source, the weakest link in my system by far now, but chasing all new ghosts due to what is supposed to be an upgrade doesn't really sound that appealing either.
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, but you have inexpensive alternatives available. Computers are simply electrically dirty. Convenient no doubt... and dirty. By design, it's got a lot going on in the background. The motherboard I'm buying buying next month (Alix2d2) doesn't even have support for Video. If you obtain an obscure, unused computer, you could convert it into a "Vortexbox." Using open-source tools (Linux) your new box will have one focus only - audio! This is by design, so dual-booting is out of the question. 
   
  Foreign concept - enhancing your audio spending no money.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have an LCD tv in the room, but I turned it off.  I turned off all electronics and even the lights.  I have no idea what could be causing it.  It may have started months ago, but I didn't pick up on it until I started tube rolling lately.  I can't say.  I always assumed my amp was quiet, but it may not have been for some time.  It was the most noticeable today, that's all.
> 
> I've tried a couple of power tubes and several driver tubes.  The static hum is the same no matter what tube combo I throw at it.
> 
> ...


 

 Maddening, I tell ya! System dialed-in? Better hit redial!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have an LCD tv in the room, but I turned it off.  I turned off all electronics and even the lights.  I have no idea what could be causing it.  It may have started months ago, but I didn't pick up on it until I started tube rolling lately.  I can't say.  I always assumed my amp was quiet, but it may not have been for some time.  It was the most noticeable today, that's all.
> 
> I've tried a couple of power tubes and several driver tubes.  The static hum is the same no matter what tube combo I throw at it.
> 
> ...


 

 You may have overlooked the most simple explanation actually: if this came about from recent tube rolling your socket pins may have picked up some crud and be in need of cleaning.


----------



## Silent One

hodgjy is very fortunate to have a large support group here at Head-Fi. _Otherwise, he would've quickly become noiseless... and Wooless!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'm not an early adopter but I'll probably get the DAC eventually. I'll wait for some reviews/comparisons and for any kinks to get ironed out.


 


  But, wouldn't those kinks be worth getting a discount? You could always get lucky, lower price and no issues.


----------



## hodgjy

I did notice some very small metal shavings around the sockets a few minutes ago when I was giving the amp a really good look over.  I hope that's it.  I hadn't thought of that because I cleaned the pins of the tubes before and after rolling them, so I just overlooked it all.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You may have overlooked the most simple explanation actually: if this came about from recent tube rolling your socket pins may have picked up some crud and be in need of cleaning.


----------



## hodgjy

Rats.  Cleaning the tube sockets had no effect.  It was a great idea, though.  One that I had completely overlooked.  But, it seems my amp wants to be a brat.  I think I might put it away in the closet for a few months so the agony won't consume me.


----------



## Silent One

In a closet?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The horror!!! Why not simply put it inside the enclosure for the week, while you sort things out a bit? A solution is near... you're going to want the amp near too.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've tried three sets of driver tubes tonight.  It's not your typical 60 hz ground loop.  It's a faint buzz, that comes and goes.  I would guess it's between 100-200 hz.  It's like a static buzz that doesn't change with the volume pot, but it does oscillate louder and softer randomly.
> 
> GRRRRR.
> 
> ...


 


 It does sound like power ripple like interference. AC hum is 60hz and if there is noise riddding on both the + and - DC voltage which could make it buzz at 120Hz. I had problems with the TV cable in the house causing interference. dimmers on the same cricuit branch or a bad Cap in the power supply of the amp. Have you tried bringing the amp over to a friend house to elimate AC power issues at your house?


----------



## Silent One

hodgjy, I've not got one yet myself, but have you considered an isolation transformer like Tripp-Lite? It may or may not resolve your issue(s). But you could pick one up on AMZN for about $100. Considering the complex you live in, it might not be a bad tweak.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah, it's natural for us all to just wanna get to the dirt! And read only what pertains to us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha SilentOne you know your stuff! I actually got my peachtree thinking it would be the be all end all unit in my setup after reading the great reviews on 6moons, but wow does the WA6SE make a difference and the power is just nuts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. really liking it. What kind of usb cable are you using? does it make a difference? I just have some gold plated media bridge cables from amazon, they seem ok (nothing special) just didn't know if usb cables get as special as rca cables do haha..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA6-SE = awesome, especially when combined with the warmth of the WA2, very euphonic, quite dynamic
   
   
  i was actually thinking of selling both for a WA22, but i'm happy with this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  love how the WA2 functions as a pre-amp. very smooth, no distortion, pitch-black silent all the way, good pre-amp for anyone wanting to add warmth in their system. just a note for those who ask about the WA2 preamp capabilities.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> Infected mushroom on the hd800s make the boom like nothing else.
> Love their production quality, just too bad you can't get that stuff at 24 bit


 


  Discovered Infected Mushroom recently on Spotify, great duo. Although ironic that listening to "Heavyweight" was when I discovered one of my K1000 drivers was faulty  That was an expensive repair!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I did notice some very small metal shavings around the sockets a few minutes ago when I was giving the amp a really good look over.  I hope that's it.  I hadn't thought of that because I cleaned the pins of the tubes before and after rolling them, so I just overlooked it all.


 

 First thing I would do is try the amp at a different location (not in your apartment), with only the source connected directly (cd player). If it was still there, I would send it back to Woo Audio and have them look at it. Also, check your interconnects and change them too if you can.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Rats.  Cleaning the tube sockets had no effect.  It was a great idea, though.  One that I had completely overlooked.  But, it seems my amp wants to be a brat.  I think I might put it away in the closet for a few months so the agony won't consume me.


 

 I don't know what amp you have.
  What rectifier tube does it use??
  Did you try changing the rectifier tube??


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.  This is why I like this place.
   
   I have tried a different interconnect, and it did not help.  The WA3 uses an internal, solid state rectifier, so I can't roll that.
   
  My next step is to try it at work or at a friend's and see if my power is dirty.  It might be.  My current surge suppressor claims to filter noise, but I'd be skeptical if it actually did.  If it sounds clean elsewhere, Tripp Lite will be getting some of my money.
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## hodgjy

So here's a basic question for you smart, electrically inclined people.
   
  If my electricity source was the culprit, would it also make the same noise in my solid state gear?  The reason I'm asking is because my solid state gear is silent.  Does the dirty power affect tubes differently than transistors?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## rosgr63

If your SS amp has a very good power supply section it may not be affected as much.


----------



## hodgjy

I have an Asgard.  I'm assuming the WA3 and the Asgard would have more similar power supplies than different based on their price brackets.
  
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> If your SS amp has a very good power supply section it may not be affected as much.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Haha SilentOne you know your stuff! I actually got my peachtree thinking it would be the be all end all unit in my setup after reading the great reviews on 6moons, but wow does the WA6SE make a difference and the power is just nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 






 The only thing I really know for sure about cables is I don't want any from ACME! I am currently using the WireWorld Silver Starlight USB. Does it make a difference? Yes. But, many others can as well. It is going to be device/system dependent. Some are going to sound better or worse, with others simply sounding different. 
   
  So, the next time you highly recommend a cable to me as the next best thing, I'll listen to you... and maybe even the cable. But it will really depend on my system. Occasionally, I'll swap in the USB cable that comes with whatever device was ordered. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I'm quickly reminded that USB cables DO matter! 
   
  FYI~
   
  The Cable Co. has a lending library of used cables. This may give you an opportunity to try a few different cables of interest or out of curiosity.


----------



## hodgjy

I'll also say that when I first power my amp on, the buzz/hum is not very noticeable.  However, when it is fully warmed up for 30-60 mins, it is more obvious.  Does this help at all the diagnosis?


----------



## Rawrbington

i've thought all along it was tubes.
  except for that it didn't go away after changing  tubes...
   
  and to echo dubstep girls thoughts on the WA2 as a pre.
  yeah.
  i picked up a '76 pioneer receiver yesterday.
  its a dog, looks like someone didn't like it at all.
  but she sounds good.
  and sounds REALLY REALLY good when fed from the 2's pre.
  but lol at feeding a 70$ amp with a 1100$ pre


----------



## hodgjy

I'm going to pick up a power conditioner today.  If my power isn't dirty, then my amp has problems.  Based on what people have said here, and a little of my own research, I think I probably have dirty power.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm going to pick up a power conditioner today.  If my power isn't dirty, then my amp has problems.  Based on what people have said here, and a little of my own research, I think I probably have dirty power.


 

 Wishing you the best! And caution as well, because a new power conditioner may or may not resolve your issue which appears to be unknown at this writing. Infections are creepy in that they can literally creep into many different places; come from different places.
   
  Starting with clean AC from the wall is noble. But that switching power supply in your source and/or cables that follow aren't exactly immune to nasties creeping back in. Not trying to spew fear your way. Your reality might even turn out to be quite simple. I'm simply suggesting, before you push the little one off the balcony, there is a wide variety of things to look at as you investigate.


----------



## hodgjy

I've done some reading, and something struck me.  All yesterday, I noticed there was a tendency for the noise to oscillate between R and L channels.  This was independent of which tube combo I used (and I even swapped R and L pre amp tubes to follow movement).  I read that this is a symptom of dirty power.  Line conditioners are said to cure this.
   
  Would you agree with that?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wishing you the best! And caution as well, because a new power conditioner may or may not resolve your issue which appears to be unknown at this writing. Infections are creepy in that they can literally creep into many different places; come from different places.
> 
> Starting with clean AC from the wall is noble. But that switching power supply in your source and/or cables that follow aren't exactly immune to nasties creeping back in. Not trying to spew fear your way. Your reality might even turn out to be quite simple. I'm simply suggesting, before you push the little one off the balcony, there is a wide variety of things to look at as you investigate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i've thought all along it was tubes.
> except for that it didn't go away after changing  tubes...
> 
> and to echo dubstep girls thoughts on the WA2 as a pre.
> ...


 
   
  Congrats on the Pioneer purchase! You get the SX-750; 950? This amp was born of the electronics arms race in the Seventies. But, can you imagine what build quality like that in your vintage iron would cost in terms of today's dollar? What tickles me is how conservatively amp makers rated their products. Today, it's just the opposite!


----------



## Rawrbington

sx 650
  i wish it was a 950!
  they are out of my price range at the moment.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've done some reading, and something struck me.  All yesterday, I noticed there was a tendency for the noise to oscillate between R and L channels.  This was independent of which tube combo I used (and I even swapped R and L pre amp tubes to follow movement).  I read that this is a symptom of dirty power.  Line conditioners are said to cure this.
> 
> Would you agree with that?


 

 Not familiar with all the symptoms of dirty power... but it certainly sounds like it. I'd invest in one I know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your neighbors aren't exactly helping any. Can't wait to cheer for your success, hodgjy! We're on the sidelines watching... waiting...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> sx 650
> i wish it was a 950!
> they are out of my price range at the moment.


 







 Got my 1977 SX-650 sittin' right here! It grabbed the LCD-2's by the horns (ok, ear pads...) and made them shovel a bit... _"Deeper... dig, deeper!"_ said the Pioneer.


----------



## Rawrbington

NICE!
  mines been abused a bit.
  some kid in the 80s probably, decided the case wanted a black (spray) paint job lol.
  hte nobs are dirty the face is a little dirty but not really scuffed up save 2 little scratches on the top ledge of the alluminum.
  also the left channel doesn't work properly when using the Aux input.
  its got a date with my brothers bench in a week or two.
  he's gonna give it a proper run thru and clean it while he has it apart.
  but i am very impressed with its sound
   
  hows it sound with the LCD2?
  does the HP jack power them or do u use the speaker outs?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> sx 650
> i wish it was a 950!
> they are out of my price range at the moment.


 






 How does one make a whistling sound using text? Stunning, rawrbington, simply stunning!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> NICE!
> mines been abused a bit.
> some kid in the 80s probably, decided the case wanted a black (spray) paint job lol.
> hte nobs are dirty the face is a little dirty but not really scuffed up save 2 little scratches on the top ledge of the alluminum.
> ...


 

 HP/O powers 'em just fine! Make no mistake, the Woo brought the LCD-2's more clarity and focus. But did I mention the "Fun" factor with the Pioneer?


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks!
  i just hope the little table they are on can hold them long term.
  i think i hear it whimpering


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thanks!
> i just hope the little table they are on can hold them long term.
> i think i hear it whimpering


 






 Uh-oh! Better pull up those Geo maps...


----------



## leng jai

I'm new to this - how would I go about using the WA2 as a preamp to my integrated amp? Is it even possible?


----------



## hodgjy

I ended up not getting a power conditioner today. I looked at the specs of my surge suppressor already in place, and it does filter EMI noise already.  I can't justify paying more on a conditioner than I paid for the amp.  Other problem solving steps will be investigated in the mean time.  Maybe I'll get an isolation transformer.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I ended up not getting a power conditioner today. I looked at the specs of my surge suppressor already in place, and it does filter EMI noise already.  I can't justify paying more on a conditioner than I paid for the amp.  Other problem solving steps will be investigated in the mean time.  Maybe I'll get an isolation transformer.


 


 I would try the isolation transformer a 1KVA will be more then enough power and you can get double insulated hospital grade.
  These will block allot of noise you can even use a ground buster after the transformer it will be safe after the transformer. I have
  a 2KVA double insulated left over from when I had a swimming pool. Had the pool filter plugged into it there was no way my children
  were getting into a pool with the pump hooked directly to the power line.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The only thing I really know for sure about cables is I don't want any from ACME! I am currently using the WireWorld Silver Starlight USB. Does it make a difference? Yes. But, many others can as well. It is going to be device/system dependent. Some are going to sound better or worse, with others simply sounding different.
> 
> So, the next time you highly recommend a cable to me as the next best thing, I'll listen to you... and maybe even the cable. But it will really depend on my system. Occasionally, I'll swap in the USB cable that comes with whatever device was ordered.
> 
> ...


 


  Great! I'm going to look into it and get my hands on something soon.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, I tried one last ditch effort today.
   
  I unplugged EVERYTHING in my apartment except for my amp and the source.  I wanted to see if this had any effect on the noise.  Now, I know my neighbors may, but if the power supply was at fault, I expected to find some cause to come from my devices.
   
  Nothing.  Same noise.
   
  It's a low grade noise, and I can't hear it while the music is playing.  I guess it's of no tragic consequence, but it annoys me to all heck.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I'm new to this - how would I go about using the WA2 as a preamp to my integrated amp? Is it even possible?


 

 Unless you have a bypass for the pre-amp controls on your integrated then its not really worth it. You end up dealing with two volume controls. Some may do that but I personally don't like it much when trying that with my tube integrated.


----------



## Velocity

Im going to order the WA3 but I wonder if changing tubes is a must ? Cause when I read all this comments it seems obvious to roll tubes. Isnt the stock tubes good enough or do u roll tubes mostly cause its fun? I wonder this cause my wallet wont let me buy other tubes after my WA3 purchase.  I just want to let my DT990s sing, will the stock tubes do ?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I'm new to this - how would I go about using the WA2 as a preamp to my integrated amp? Is it even possible?


 


  If your amp has a "pre" in, then yes, you just leave it at max and use the WA2 to control the volume.
  If not, then no.


----------



## hodgjy

Power tubes have more of an effect than pre-amp tubes.  You can get some very nice power tubes for as low as $8.  For that price, it's worth a try to roll.
  
  Quote: 





velocity said:


> Im going to order the WA3 but I wonder if changing tubes is a must ? Cause when I read all this comments it seems obvious to roll tubes. Isnt the stock tubes good enough or do u roll tubes mostly cause its fun? I wonder this cause my wallet wont let me buy other tubes after my WA3 purchase.  I just want to let my DT990s sing, will the stock tubes do ?


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I'm new to this - how would I go about using the WA2 as a preamp to my integrated amp? Is it even possible?


 


  run an interconnect from the pre out of the WA2 to the AUX in of the receiver.
  i think its a very worthwhile improvement on my vintage pioneer and yamaha


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


>


 


  very nice!


----------



## Zombie_X

It's not a must as the stock tubes do sound very good by default. If anything change your power tube to something else. The RCA 6AS7/G sounds very good and is very cheap. Another option is the Sylvania 6080W which is also cheap and is quite warm sounding.
   
  Now if you want fancier driver tubes I have a matched pair of Bugle Boy 6DJ8's if you are interested. They are really nice and warm sounding and I wouldn't gouge you like most sites do. They test on the high side of "good" on my tester and they can be your's for under $30 if you want em.
  
  Quote: 





velocity said:


> Im going to order the WA3 but I wonder if changing tubes is a must ? Cause when I read all this comments it seems obvious to roll tubes. Isnt the stock tubes good enough or do u roll tubes mostly cause its fun? I wonder this cause my wallet wont let me buy other tubes after my WA3 purchase.  I just want to let my DT990s sing, will the stock tubes do ?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, I tried one last ditch effort today.
> 
> I unplugged EVERYTHING in my apartment except for my amp and the source.  I wanted to see if this had any effect on the noise.  Now, I know my neighbors may, but if the power supply was at fault, I expected to find some cause to come from my devices.
> 
> ...


 

 It can be one of your neighbors has a light dimmer going it is hard to filter that noise. Maybe the amp always had this buzz and you didn't know it till now when you started
  tube rolling. If you can't here it with music just ignore it before you spend allot of money to get rid of something you cant here with the music.


----------



## hodgjy

Very true.
  
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It can be one of your neighbors has a light dimmer going it is hard to filter that noise. Maybe the amp always had this buzz and you didn't know it till now when you started
> tube rolling. If you can't here it with music just ignore it before you spend allot of money to get rid of something you cant here with the music.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, the one nice thing to come out of this all is I've been using my Asgard most of today.  I played recordings though it that I would have normally played through WA3.  I will say the Asgard is more full and smooth than I expected.  It handles acoustic guitar very well, which was something I saved exclusively for my WA3.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, the one nice thing to come out of this all is I've been using my Asgard most of today.  I played recordings though it that I would have normally played through WA3.  I will say the Asgard is more full and smooth than I expected.  It handles acoustic guitar very well, which was something I saved exclusively for my WA3.


 








 The brilliance of having a diverse portfolio.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, the one nice thing to come out of this all is I've been using my Asgard most of today.  I played recordings though it that I would have normally played through WA3.  I will say the Asgard is more full and smooth than I expected.  It handles acoustic guitar very well, which was something I saved exclusively for my WA3.


 


  If your Asgard is not giving you the hum problem, imo its the WA3 or the tubes that is causing the hum.
  If you can take your WA3 to a different location away from were you live and try it.


----------



## hodgjy

Unfortunately, I think that is the case.  The amp is most likely at fault.  It's always been a fastidious amp, but it's gotten worse lately.  I'll try it on some other power, but I'm not expecting anything different.
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> If your Asgard is not giving you the hum problem, imo its the WA3 or the tubes that is causing the hum.
> If you can take your WA3 to a different location away from were you live and try it.


----------



## Rawrbington

what is inside of the wa3 that could cause the hum though?
  besides a tube or maybe dirty power?
   
  if it is a cap or resistor you could probably get it repaired locally without completely breaking the bank.  if you're willing to go that route


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Unfortunately, I think that is the case.  The amp is most likely at fault.  It's always been a fastidious amp, but it's gotten worse lately.  I'll try it on some other power, but I'm not expecting anything different.


 


  Can you hear the hum during quiet passages in music, or with noise floor sensitive material such as piano music?  If not then I'd agree with glenn and just try to forget the hum is even there.  If you can hear it during musical passages then that is a bummer though.  Nothing bugs me more than being able to hear a hum or buzz when trying to listen to a piano solo piece.  There are always plenty of breaks in the music to remind you it is there.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

norah jones on my T1/WA2 combo + a pomegranate martini


----------



## hodgjy

I can hear it between tracks or pauses in the music.  I can't hear it when there is actual music being played. 
   
  Some tube amps just hum.  I opened mine up last night, and all the solder joints look good.  I think it's just the character of the amp.  It was always fickle since the day I got it.  For example, it would flat out reject some tubes with a very, very loud hum on tubes shown to be good in other setups.  It's just the way my little Woo is.  I think it's a mixture of me noticing it more lately, but I think it has gotten worse.  Maybe a capacitor is on its way out or something.  Or, some of the coiling on the transformer might be getting loose.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Can you hear the hum during quiet passages in music, or with noise floor sensitive material such as piano music?  If not then I'd agree with glenn and just try to forget the hum is even there.  If you can hear it during musical passages then that is a bummer though.  Nothing bugs me more than being able to hear a hum or buzz when trying to listen to a piano solo piece.  There are always plenty of breaks in the music to remind you it is there.


----------



## hodgjy

I may have to do that if the noise gets worse.  For now, I guess I'll pretend it's not there.  If it gets worse, I'll have to look into repairs or an isolation transformer.  But, as others have said, my solid state gear is dead quiet, so I'm skeptical the power is the cause.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what is inside of the wa3 that could cause the hum though?
> besides a tube or maybe dirty power?
> 
> if it is a cap or resistor you could probably get it repaired locally without completely breaking the bank.  if you're willing to go that route


----------



## Rawrbington

good point.
  hopefully it resolves itself magically.
  i've had a tube amp act up before and then all of a sudden become normal again.
   
  i think beyers were made for woo amps.
  they sound so good on them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> good point.
> hopefully it resolves itself magically.
> i've had a tube amp act up before and then all of a sudden become normal again.
> 
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## Rawrbington

currently enjoying the remaster of Rumours by Fleetwood Mac with my 770 pro 80s through the pioneer by way of wa2 pre.
   
  somehow the wide soundstage of the woo is still present.  and even more so on the HD650s


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> norah jones on my T1/WA2 combo + a pomegranate martini


 






  I'm so happy for you. Though, I'd take her sister (Anoushka Shankar) on my D7000/WA6SE combo + Champagne for my preference.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm so happy for you. Though, I'd take her sister (Anoushka Shankar) on my D7000/WA6SE combo + Champagne for my preference.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Unfortunately, I think that is the case.  The amp is most likely at fault.  It's always been a fastidious amp, but it's gotten worse lately.  I'll try it on some other power, but I'm not expecting anything different.


 


  this same problem occurred with my peachtree audio amp/dac being too close to my WA6... just placed them farther and it fixed the problem.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm so happy for you. Though, I'd take her sister (Anoushka Shankar) on my D7000/WA6SE combo + Champagne for my preference.


 

 nice...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> nice...


 

 Last night, I was reviewing the Logitech Squeezebox Touch for specs and was surprised that Logitech is using her on the player's screen as a demo.


----------



## Silent One

It's rainy in the early morning hours in Cali. And that's ok, as I've got my Woo burnin' rightly and brightly inside the listening room. To reflect the weather outside, I queued:
   
  "Raindrops", Chopin: Prelude #15 In D Flat, Op 28/15 - Peter Schmalfuss
  "Stormy Weather" - Lena Horne
   
  Then to reflect conditions indoors:
   
  "I Will Be Fine" - Karen Mok
   
  Who proceeded to burn up the listening room with that track!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I remain warm now the rest of the morning...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's rainy in the early morning hours in Cali. And that's ok, as I've got my Woo burnin' rightly and brightly inside the listening room. To reflect the weather outside, I queued:
> 
> "Raindrops", Chopin: Prelude #15 In D Flat, Op 28/15 - Peter Schmalfuss
> "Stormy Weather" - Lena Horne
> ...


 
   
  seems like you're an insomniac too


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> seems like you're an insomniac too


 

 In addition to being a 'Woozie', I'm a night cat... with early A.M. responsibilities. Man, my days are ruff & stuff! Yet, life brings delights. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then, there's the matter of breakin' in some new WireWorld candy!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

almost 7am, got school in an hour. 
   
  took a long shower, drinking tequila sunrise + listening to some cafe del mar


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> almost 7am, got school in an hour.
> 
> took a long shower, drinking tequila sunrise + listening to some cafe del mar


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> In addition to being a 'Woozie', I'm a night cat... with early A.M. responsibilities. Man, my days are ruff & stuff! Yet, life brings delights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 thats the life...


----------



## hodgjy

I wonder how many of my students come to my 8:00 a.m. class after drinking a tequila sunrise breakfast of champions.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> almost 7am, got school in an hour.
> 
> took a long shower, drinking tequila sunrise + listening to some cafe del mar


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I wonder how many of my students come to my 8:00 a.m. class after drinking a tequila sunrise breakfast of champions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> almost 7am, got school in an hour.
> 
> took a long shower, drinking tequila sunrise + listening to some cafe del mar


 

 Just missed you in passing. Have yourself a great first day recovering from the semester break! And try not to think about ALL your gear during the lectures.


----------



## Cluny

Hey. For how long do you guys leave your amp on, if you leave the room?
  How long does it have to be for you to turn off the amp when you leave, and turn it back on again when back?


----------



## hodgjy

If I am in my place, I'll leave it on up to 8 hours.  If I'm not playing any music, I'll still leave it on, but turn the volume to zero.  If I leave, even for a minute, the amp gets shut off.  I won't leave tubes unattended.
  
  Quote: 





cluny said:


> Hey. For how long do you guys leave your amp on, if you leave the room?
> How long does it have to be for you to turn off the amp when you leave, and turn it back on again when back?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cluny said:


> Hey. For how long do you guys leave your amp on, if you leave the room?
> How long does it have to be for you to turn off the amp when you leave, and turn it back on again when back?


 

 For me, it's a matter of where I'm going and for how long. If I go to the kitchen for a cold glass of milk. Or retrieve something from the adjacent room, I let it play. But to be clear, I won't be hangin' out somewhere leaving my amp unattended. Nearly all of my sessions are overnight anyway, so I'm always inside the listening room (_gotta leave for the cold milk, though! _





)
   
  Also, I won't turn my amp on and off before it has a chance to cool - generally, I just use a one hour window. If I listened during the day (I don't) I could see the challenge this could present. Say, turn the amp on, only to discover 10 minutes later you forgot something at the store. Emergencies aside, I put thought into when to have a session. If I can't successfully listen for one hour at minimum, I won't bother and will fire up the solid state gear instead.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> norah jones on my T1/WA2 combo + a pomegranate martini


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm so happy for you. Though, I'd take her sister (Anoushka Shankar) on my D7000/WA6SE combo + Champagne for my preference.


 


  Well, I had to leave work in my shop several times today to clear all of the new snow that arrived (12 inches + in the last 12 hours), so for me, it is Rush/Moving Pictures in 24/96, and a Bell's Two-Hearted IPA.


----------



## Silent One

Justified!


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





cluny said:


> Hey. For how long do you guys leave your amp on, if you leave the room?
> How long does it have to be for you to turn off the amp when you leave, and turn it back on again when back?


 


  Even since I got my WA2 late last year I've been typically leaving it on when I'm home or otherwise not far away. Turning it off if I'm leaving the house. I try to give it a break every 8hrs as per Woo website.
  But recently the amp probably clocked 10hrs in a session.
  For me. The amp ultimately sits at the end of a PC as source chain. So it isn't just for music. It's for gaming too. I have small USB fan (http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_1160&products_id=18473) parked on top circulating some air in a soft steady breeze. It's summer here in Australia. And the modest airflow lowers internal temp (measure through glass) by a not insignificant amount. Someday. I don't turn it on at all. Using the SS amp, which also gets hot. So I fan assist that too.
   
  I find the WA2 chassis is cooler too with airflow. It seems much of the chassis heat is from the valves blasting the exterior surfaces with the hotness. Convection is our friend and a little assistance doesn't hurt.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Well, I had to leave work in my shop several times today to clear all of the new snow that arrived (12 inches + in the last 12 hours),* so for me, it is Rush/Moving Pictures in 24/96,* and a Bell's Two-Hearted IPA.


 

 Nice! One of my top 5 albums of all time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Well, I had to leave work in my shop several times today to clear all of the new snow that arrived (12 inches + in the last 12 hours), so for me, it is Rush/Moving Pictures in 24/96, and a Bell's Two-Hearted IPA.


 
  very nice. i love rush!
  
  how'd u get 24/96 though, is it a vinyl rip?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very nice. i love rush!
> 
> how'd u get 24/96 though, is it a vinyl rip?


 


https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD00602527636993


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh nice, didn't know they had it lol.
   
  im happy with my MFSL version for now though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  still debating on wheter or not to make the jump to 24/96 since right now everything i have is 16/44 lossless. i've even downloaded 24/96 or 24/192 but ultimately downsample to 16/44.


----------



## Silent One

Downloading to 16/44.1 your preference or the default action of the DL-III?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:  





> i've even downloaded 24/96 or 24/192 but ultimately downsample to 16/44.


 
   
  If you're using iTunes, you can use *MAX* to convert 24/96 or 24/192 flac files to AIFF or lossless (or any other format); the bit depth and sample rate can remain the same.  On some of the HD Tracks hi-res material I've downloaded, I don't hear any difference between it and the regular CD, but with others (particularly Moving Pictures) the difference is significant.


----------



## Zombie_X

I personally think that there is no SQ improvement when going from 16/44 to 24/96. If there is a difference then it's not noticeable. Plus you save money when not got to higher resolution files. For Moving Pictures I have both the HD-Tracks 24/96 version as well as the MFSL disc and there is no sound quality difference. If anything the MFSL sounds better to my ears.


----------



## Rawrbington

i've never heard a hi res and bit depth vinyl rip that  sounds as good as a lossless cd rip


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thats what i've noticed with 24/96. i can't really tell a diifference. i will try again next time i get a chance with a recording, but im pretty happy with 16/44 and the convinience of it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Downloading to 16/44.1 your preference or the default action of the DL-III?


 


  my preference so i can easily play off of anything and so its easily transferrable to ipod.
   
  of course, i could just keep the higher bit-rate stuff and just let jriver media center convert... but thats also more work.


----------



## grokit

Agreed, but upsampling to 24/96 can help to mitigate the negative by-products of digital volume adjustment and effects processing.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Nice! One of my top 5 albums of all time.


 


  +1 and Two Hearted is one of my top 5 beers of all time


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Agreed, but upsampling to 24/96 can help to mitigate the negative by-products of digital volume adjustment and effects processing.


----------



## musicman59

zombie_x said:


> I personally think that there is no SQ improvement when going from 16/44 to 24/96. If there is a difference then it's not noticeable. Plus you save money when not got to higher resolution files. For Moving Pictures I have both the HD-Tracks 24/96 version as well as the MFSL disc and there is no sound quality difference. If anything the MFSL sounds better to my ears.



I personally and respectfully disagree. Last weekend I had a Fleetwood Mac session playing my Rumours remastered CD and also the hi-res version I got from HDtracks. IMO the level of detail and the soundstage presentation of the hi-res version is clearly better.

With the CD I was using my Teac VRDS-10 transport highly modified by GNS feeding my PWD. For the Hi-res version I used my Mac Book Pro feeding the same DAC. The amp used wa my WA5-LE and the HD800 with Zeus cable.


The Computer files are actually 24/192 but down converted to 24/96 to go over usb


----------



## hodgjy

I don't want to get into the specifics of it, because that should go in the sound science forum, but there is a difference between how we hear standard def tracks and high def tracks.  However, it has little do with how our ears hear the sampling rate.  It is entirely to do with how the engineers mix the songs.  Because there are different tools at their disposal, they will mix them differently, which we will hear.  We will hear different volumes and tones and instrument placements.  We will not hear differences between 16/44 and 24/96.  Double blind tests have repeatedly showed that taking 24/96 tracks and playing them, then downsampling to 16/44, cannot be differentiated.  And that of all things, since you are bastardizing the the track, should be noticeable if it could be noticeable.  But, it's not.


----------



## Icenine2

I've heard plenty.  Not to mention CD's that have loudness issues and bad DR.  I have the High-Res HDTracks Cat Stevens "Tea for the Tillerman" that just kills everything I own.  I also have a vinyl rip of Classic Records Allman Brothers Fillmore East that is better than all my other versions including MFSL Gold Disc and 24/96 file.
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i've never heard a hi res and bit depth vinyl rip that  sounds as good as a lossless cd rip


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I personally and respectfully disagree. Last weekend I had a Fleetwood Mac session playing my Rumours remastered CD and also the hi-res version I got from HDtracks. IMO the level of detail and the soundstage presentation of the hi-res version is clearly better.


 


  i felt the opposite.  i have both versions.  i felt the 16/44 newly remastered cd rip to flac sounded more dynamic and more clear than the 24/96 from hd tracks


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I've heard plenty.  Not to mention CD's that have loudness issues and bad DR.  I have the High-Res HDTracks Cat Stevens "Tea for the Tillerman" that just kills everything I own.  I also have a vinyl rip of Classic Records Allman Brothers Fillmore East that is better than all my other versions including MFSL Gold Disc and 24/96 file.


 


 I agree with you. I also have "Tee For The Tillerman" form HDTracks and a remastered version in CD and IMO the HDTracks sounds better.


----------



## Icenine2

I do have a vinyl rip 24/96 of the 45rpm Rumours and it sounds incredible.  I don't have the HDTracks version.


----------



## pyramid6

Just to throw my two cents in, I thinking mastering matters more than the format.  I would take a well mastered CD over a poorly mastered 32/192k stream any day.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Just to throw my two cents in, I thinking mastering matters more than the format.  I would take a well mastered CD over a poorly mastered 32/192k stream any day.


 


  +1


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I do have a vinyl rip 24/96 of the 45rpm Rumours and it sounds incredible.  I don't have the HDTracks version.


 


 Does this mean we can continue debating who the best drummer in the world is on the LF thread?


----------



## Icenine2

Busted again!!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Busted again!!


 

 Just busting your chops. Please don't take it personally. I really don't mind.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I've heard plenty.  Not to mention CD's that have loudness issues and bad DR.  I have the High-Res HDTracks Cat Stevens "Tea for the Tillerman" that just kills everything I own.  I also have a vinyl rip of Classic Records Allman Brothers Fillmore East that is better than all my other versions including MFSL Gold Disc and 24/96 file.


 

 Tea for the Tillerman, originally mastered on early Magnepans.


----------



## Silent One

Deaf Percussionist Evelyn Glennie  Glennie has been profoundly deaf since age 12. This does not inhibit her ability to perform at the international level. She regularly plays barefoot during both live performances and studio recordings in order to "feel" the music better.[3]

 Glennie contends that deafness is largely misunderstood by the public. She claims to have taught herself to hear with parts of her body other than her ears. In response to criticism from the media, Glennie published _Hearing Essay_ in which she personally discusses her condition.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Does this mean we can continue debating who the best drummer in the world is on the LF thread?


 

 What debate?   No one in the LF thread ever mentioned any of the great Jazz drummers all of which could school (and some actually did) the ones mentioned in that thread.
   
   
  Elvin Jones
  Max Roach
  Jack DeJohnette
  Tony Williams
  Billy Cobham
  Art Blakey
  Jeff "Tain" Watts
  Philly Joe Jones
  Jimmy Cobb
  Elvin Jones
  Max Roach
  Jack DeJohnette
  Tony Williams
   
  Just to mention a smattering...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I do have a vinyl rip 24/96 of the 45rpm Rumours and it sounds incredible.  I don't have the HDTracks version.


 

 At least Rumors approaches the 40 minute mark coming in at 39:03. I'm waiting to buy "The Shadow Of Your Smile" (Astrud Gilberto) 2 x 45rpm and it only comes in at 25 minutes total. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unless I rip the vinyl to disk, I'll be up and down like Jack-in-the-box!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What debate?   Know one in the LF thread ever mentioned any of the great Jazz drummers all of which could school (and some actually did) the ones mentioned in that thread.
> 
> 
> Elvin Jones
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Best drummer ever.


----------



## Silent One

Time to call Triple-A... the wheels have come clean off the Woo Audio Amp Express!


----------



## danska

Quote: 





silent one said:


> At least Rumors approaches the 40 minute mark coming in at 39:03. I'm waiting to buy "The Shadow Of Your Smile" (Astrud Gilberto) 2 x 45rpm and it only comes in at 25 minutes total.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That was me listening to some Radiohead remixes from King of Limbs last night. Most of them have one or two tracks per side. Unbelievable bass on their 45s. when I first started listening to my newly re-tipped cartridge I thought I was missing some low end extension, once I listened to their stuff, never mind! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been listening to much softer items today, rediscovering a lot of recordings that I haven't listened to in some time. There are a few elements I just don't get from digital playback, even after demoing several $3500+ DACs this weekend.
   
  I might try ripping some vinyls here at some point. My biggest problem with most 24/96 vinyl rips is that they often have too much background noise, more than is apparent when running them through my LP playback system.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





danska said:


> That was me listening to some Radiohead remixes from King of Limbs last night. Most of them have one or two tracks per side. Unbelievable bass on their 45s. when I first started listening to my newly re-tipped cartridge I thought I was missing some low end extension, once I listened to their stuff, never mind!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When you relocate, your audio gear demands you stay away from the freeways; busy thorough fares. Your rewards smacks of Radiohead and Reverie.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


warriorant said:


> Just to mention a smattering...


 

 Can't leave this guy off any jazz drummer list!
   

   
_“Arguably the greatest jazz drummer of all time, the legendary Buddy Rich exhibited his love for music through the dedication of his life to the art. His was a career that spanned seven decades, beginning when Rich was 18 months old and continuing until his death in 1987. Immensely gifted, Rich could play with remarkable speed and dexterity despite the fact that he never received a formal lesson and refused to practice outside of his performances.”_


----------



## Silent One

So... which Woo Audio amp resolves and amplifies percussion the best? With the right tube compliment, my _WA 6 Special Edition _is definitely a contender!


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





danska said:


> That was me listening to some Radiohead remixes from King of Limbs last night. Most of them have one or two tracks per side. Unbelievable bass on their 45s. when I first started listening to my newly re-tipped cartridge I thought I was missing some low end extension, once I listened to their stuff, never mind!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  YES!!  Totally!!  I just do NOT get vinyl rips.  blech.  nasty. The worst of all worlds.


----------



## Silent One

If I had better vinyl gear & accessories, I'd be fine with the ceremony of putting a record on and listening through my Woo. Wisdom is knowing sometimes, there's no time for short-cuts.


----------



## sunmonkey

Calling all Woo-sians:
   
  In the vein of SilentOne-san's question on which Woo resolves percussion the best: does the sonic signature of the Woo line change from Woo amp to Woo amp? For instance, the WA2 is usually touted as deeply 'euphonic', a word which is beautiful and a desirable and subjective and delightfully annoyingly vague all at once.
   
  My current assumption is that if we were to compare the WA6-SE and the WA5-LE, that the WA5 would simply 'amplify' (no pun intended) the finer qualities of the WA6-SE: clarity, resolution, soundstage, authority, etc. As you move up the Woo line, things become more refined.
   
  Thoughts?
   
   
  [And I love that Elvin Jones made it on the original list twice. Well deserved. And I am not sure I saw Blakey on the list, but he prolly deserves a nod.]


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Calling all Woo-sians:
> 
> In the vein of SilentOne-san's question on which Woo resolves percussion the best: does the sonic signature of the Woo line change from Woo amp to Woo amp? For instance, the WA2 is usually touted as deeply 'euphonic', a word which is beautiful and a desirable and subjective and delightfully annoyingly vague all at once.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh yeah Blakey was on it.  That's just a quick list anyway...to get things churning...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Calling all Woo-sians:
> 
> In the vein of SilentOne-san's question on which Woo resolves percussion the best: does the sonic signature of the Woo line change from Woo amp to Woo amp? For instance, the WA2 is usually touted as deeply 'euphonic', a word which is beautiful and a desirable and subjective and delightfully annoyingly vague all at once.
> 
> ...


 

 I have not nor need to listen to the WA5/LE to know that there's more there there. I trust Jack and my fellow Woomates. Can't wait 'til I do though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I nominated my own amp as a contender 'cause it's one of the more dynamic amps in the line up.
   
  Unsure what prompted the original discussion in the LF thread. And I'd make sure that my list of drummers would consist of both those among the best as well as though who are simply great and favorites. Some groups don't always or fully exploit a drummer's potential. Genre and material could reign in or let loose many a drummer. I'd have down Omar Hakim.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

As things slowly drift back on topic here, I should apologize for probably having started all of this a few pages back, with my mention of the Rush/Moving Pictures 24/96 from HDTracks.  I would have to agree that the reason some 24/96 recordings sound better than their 16/44 counterparts is because of remastering, and not the actual bit depth and sampling rate.  Moving Pictures is certainly one of those recordings.
   
  I should also note that there has been absolutely no disagreement with my choice of Bell's Two Hearted IPA as a companion beverage for that album.


----------



## Silent One

The original source file is going to matter, as well as the filters used, how much, where they're employed and the equipment. There are some here that will walk away believing if they cannot hear a difference that it won't make a difference. This is flawed. How so? The effect of filters.
   
  Humans as instruments - (Yes Nicole, I knew what you meant the moment you said it. But the courtroom was not the right place nor was the jury the right audience) We all have different sensitivities. In my view, music is about emotions. So, how did you feel? There is more to hearing than our ears. 
   
  I'll use food to give an example. Suppose you have two similar savory dishes. One uses a more traditional approach with seasoning. The other is using another herb or spice that brings the dish the same or very similar taste. Some that taste the two dishes cannot distinguish a difference. But the latter dish with the substitute ingredient(s) can leave some feeling different afterwards. Maybe lacking the ability to deconstruct flavors yet, their sensitivity to the dish can make them feel a difference between the two dishes.
   
  Digital filtering is no different. Some may be sensitive to the effects of filtering yet, unable to audibly hear or explain themselves as to why. In my view, the 16/44.1 vs 24/96kHz debate is case dependent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> As things slowly drift back on topic here, I should apologize for probably having started all of this a few pages back, with my mention of the Rush/Moving Pictures 24/96 from HDTracks.  I would have to agree that the reason some 24/96 recordings sound better than their 16/44 counterparts is because of remastering, and not the actual bit depth and sampling rate.  Moving Pictures is certainly one of those recordings.
> 
> I should also note that there has been absolutely no disagreement with my choice of Bell's Two Hearted IPA as a companion beverage for that album.


 

 Hardly! This thread could use a bit more passion.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I have not nor need to listen to the WA5/LE to know that there's more there there. I trust Jack and my fellow Woomates. Can't wait 'til I do though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What I can tell you is that listening to my WA5-LE with the EML 300B Mesh, RCA black glass/flat plates 6F8G and USF 596 tubes the kick drum at the beginning of Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over gold CD makes the hair from the back of my head stick up


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> What I can tell you is that listening to my WA5-LE with the EML 300B Mesh, RCA black glass/flat plates 6F8G and USF 596 tubes the kick drum at the beginning of Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over gold CD makes the hair from the back of my head stick up


 

 Ohhhhhhhh! Now I know what my 6SE wants to be when it grows up...


----------



## Rawrbington

i got a soft spot in my heart for drummers of all sorts


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Calling all Woo-sians:
> 
> In the vein of SilentOne-san's question on which Woo resolves percussion the best: does the sonic signature of the Woo line change from Woo amp to Woo amp? For instance, the WA2 is usually touted as deeply 'euphonic', a word which is beautiful and a desirable and subjective and delightfully annoyingly vague all at once.
> 
> ...


 



 Having both the WA6SE and the WA5LE, there is no contest the WA5LE is the clear winner.
  When I got my WA5LE Jack was using the Jamato8's mod with his upgrade parts option, but then Jack opted for a lesser expensive parts upgrade in the WA5LE that was in effect the last time I checked.
  Now add my tubes, nos matched set WE300B's date code for both (56/26) for extreme clarity, nos matched TSRP 6SN7GT oval mica date code 09/42 for bass slam, and then the EML 5U4G's for speed and clarity. Using my HE6, you may rethink there is any need for a SW the bass is that strong when called for.


----------



## Szadzik

A quick question: Which Woo amp would be suitable for Sony SA5000?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ohhhhhhhh! Now I know what my 6SE wants to be when it grows up...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so how much better is WA5-LE vs. WA6-SE? like in what aspect


----------



## grokit

Quote:


szadzik said:


> A quick question: Which Woo amp would be suitable for Sony SA5000?


 

 The SA5K is not a very demanding headphone. You would be fine with the entry-level WA3 or the WA6.


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so how much better is WA5-LE vs. WA6-SE? like in what aspect


 
  Quote: 





			
				sunmonkey said:
			
		

> My current assumption is that if we were to compare the WA6-SE and the WA5-LE, that the WA5 would simply 'amplify' (no pun intended) the finer qualities of the WA6-SE: clarity, resolution, soundstage, authority, etc. As you move up the Woo line, things become more refined.


 

 I don't think I made myself completely clear, which is a deeply ingrained habit of mine, so pardon.  
   
  There are two ways I can imagine the WA5-LE being different from the WA6-SE: the obvious one is that it will be more refined. That means, the qualities inherent in the WA6-SE (clarity, bass handling, separation, etc) will be more pronounced and evident in greater quantity in the WA5-LE.
   
  The other way (and this is what I was asking about) is the flavor of the sonic signature. For example, one could be warmer, one could be more analytical. One could emphasize a certain frequency range, where one could sound damped. An extreme example would be the Grado 325i VS. the GS1000. The GS is going to be more refined in all of the attributes by which you judge a headphone (clarity, extension) but  it will also be wildly different in its sonic signature because of the materials, driver treatments, etc.
   
  I was wondering if there was a difference of this sort between the WA5-LE and the WA6-SE, or is the WA5 simply a 'larger' WA6.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> The SA5K is not a very demanding headphone. You would be fine with the entry-level WA3 or the WA6.


 


  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Icenine2

What about compared to you Dark Star?
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> What I can tell you is that listening to my WA5-LE with the EML 300B Mesh, RCA black glass/flat plates 6F8G and USF 596 tubes the kick drum at the beginning of Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over gold CD makes the hair from the back of my head stick up


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> I don't think I made myself completely clear, which is a deeply ingrained habit of mine, so pardon.
> 
> There are two ways I can imagine the WA5-LE being different from the WA6-SE: the obvious one is that it will be more refined. That means, the qualities inherent in the WA6-SE (clarity, bass handling, separation, etc) will be more pronounced and evident in greater quantity in the WA5-LE.
> 
> ...


 

 Not simply a larger WA6. Rather, a different flavor (The 300B sound) yet, should have a bit of the Woo Audio house sound. But quite a distance ahead and above the '6.' I've not heard the WA5/LE amps, but have heard 300B amps. 
   
  Perhaps, sillysally could expand on his comment later today.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so the WA5-LE is like alot better than the wA6-SE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so the WA5-LE is like alot better than the wA6-SE?


 

 In my view, a resounding YES. But with a caveat - the 300B sound isn't for everyone.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In my view, a resounding YES. But with a caveat - the 300B sound isn't for everyone.


 


  What is the 300B sound exactly?
  I have been interested in the answer to this for some time but have never found a clear answer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> What is the 300B sound exactly?
> I have been interested in the answer to this for some time but have never found a clear answer.


 

 It's been a very long time since I've heard one and it wasn't a Woo. But in general, there's _magic in the middle. _It will have a very open and clear (crystal?) midrange, full of detail and texture. It will have other attributes but the middle stands out unmistakably so. For some, this is magic. For others, too much! Hopefully, musicman59, sillysally, dannie01 and other WA5/LE owners will weigh-in shortly.
   
  At least this is what I hope to see when I awake at lunchtime.


----------



## Silent One

Great! It's 0600 hrs out here on the West Coast. I'm fixin' to go to bed. And all the chat about an amp (WA5/LE) I cannot afford is now stuck on my brain. Just great!


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's been a very long time since I've heard one and it wasn't a Woo. But in general, there's _magic in the middle. _It will have a very open and clear (crystal?) midrange, full of detail and texture. It will have other attributes but the middle stands out unmistakably so. For some, this is magic. For others, too much! Hopefully, musicman59, sillysally, dannie01 and other WA5/LE owners will weigh-in shortly.
> 
> At least this is what I hope to see when I awake at lunchtime.


 

 Thanks, interesting to know.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Thanks, interesting to know.


 
   
  WA5/LE--






 I have dreams of getting one Black-on-Black-in-Black! Your welcome. And with that, have yourself a most brilliant day across the pond!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> What about compared to you Dark Star?


 


 They are completley two different animals. You can tell that the DS is a SS amp BUT among the SS amps IMO is warm sounding. The DS has lower floor nosie but the WA5 has that magic sound of tubes.
   
  Both are excellent within thier own topology. From all the Ss amps I have had (CIA, Stello, Rudistor (even the RP010B MKII) and even the Apache) I think the DS is the one I like the most.
   
  They only potential issue is if you have low impedance and/or efficient headphones like Denon, DX1000 and Ultrasone. In those cases the DS has too much power (even in the low gain setting) so you have not much room to play iwht in the volume knob. In my case I can control that reducing the gain out of my squeezebox digital output.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Thanks, interesting to know.


 


   


  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so the WA5-LE is like alot better than the wA6-SE?


 


 What i can tell you is that I had my sights on the WA22 since my system is fully balanced until I listened to the WA5-LE and talked to Jack. It took me a short session with both to be 100% sure I wanted the WA5-LE.
   
  I went for "The Whole Enchilada" and ordered it with all the upgrades (electronics, tubes and connectors) and even sent to Jack Neotech OCC copper chassis wire and Cardas solder for the internal wiring. the oly thing missing is the RK50 pot but I did not want to add another $700 to the cost.
   
  Since I got it I have not been interested in another tube amp.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's been a very long time since I've heard one and it wasn't a Woo. But in general, there's _magic in the middle. _It will have a very open and clear (crystal?) midrange, full of detail and texture. It will have other attributes but the middle stands out unmistakably so. For some, this is magic. For others, too much! Hopefully, musicman59, sillysally, dannie01 and other WA5/LE owners will weigh-in shortly.
> 
> At least this is what I hope to see when I awake at lunchtime.


 


 Based on tube amps I have heard IMO the 300B gives you the swetness of the tube sound but without being overly dark or mellow. IMO the sound is fast, controlled and very natural sounding. The bass is really good, deep and tight. I personally don't like the very syrupey sound of some tube amps. I want the sound to be natural just like if I was there listening live with no amplification.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Based on tube amps I have heard IMO the 300B gives you the swetness of the tube sound but without being overly dark or mellow. IMO the sound is fast, controlled and very natural sounding. The bass is really good, deep and tight. I personally don't like the very syrupey sound of some tube amps. I want the sound to be natural just like if I was there listening live with no amplification.


 

 Do you have the EML 5U4G's as well?  If so, how do you like it compare it to the 596? Sorry, if you've already posted this somewhere else. Thanks.


----------



## sillysally

As I have tried to point out that the with the WA6SE there was nothing I could do to get close to 100% of the sound I was looking for, and that's why I went to the WA5LE.
  My WA5LE is so smooth with a great sound-stage, lows, mids and highs, smooth as silk without clipping, never fatiguing even if you crank it up. imo the WA5LE can be a real classic for what it is and has a lot of soul.
   
  I also thought about the Dark Star but went the Stax route instead, by getting the SRM SS 727 very high voltage output amp and a pair of SR-009's.
   
  Why I am bring up the Stax stuff is to better explain the WA5LE. The WA5LE is a forgiving amp but also shines when you use HQ audio, as were my Stax setup is fantastic with HQ audio, but it is not forgiving like the WA5LE.
   
  Please understand the WA6SE is a amp you could enjoy for years, imo it is a very nice amp and I was very happy with my WA6SE.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> As I have tried to point out that the with the WA6SE there was nothing I could do to get close to 100% of the sound I was looking for, and that's why I went to the WA5LE.
> My WA5LE is so smooth with a great sound-stage, lows, mids and highs, smooth as silk without clipping, never fatiguing even if you crank it up. imo the WA5LE can be a real classic for what it is and has a lot of soul.
> 
> I also thought about the Dark Star but went the Stax route instead, by getting the SRM SS 727 very high voltage output amp and a pair of SR-009's.
> ...


 


  thanks for the description.
   
  what all these replys still haven't answers though is how much better is it?
   
  like is it an immedaitely noticeable night/day difference. or is it more subtle and supports the law of diminishing returns?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks for the description.
> 
> what all these replys still haven't answers though is how much better is it?
> 
> like is it an immedaitely noticeable night/day difference. or is it more subtle and supports the law of diminishing returns?


 

 imo for my ears, yes it is night and day.
  Please understand one thing, any amp is only as good as the weakest link in your chain, my chain was build around my WA5LE.
  As far as diminishing returns, just look at the insides of the WA6SE and the WA5LE. imo in this case I would have to say no, plus the fact that there are more high end tube options and parts for the WA5LE. Here is a peak at the inside of my WA5LE AMP and the PSU is also impressive.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh ok.
   
  now i want one lol


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks for the description.
> 
> what all these replys still haven't answers though is how much better is it?
> 
> like is it an immedaitely noticeable night/day difference. or is it more subtle and supports the law of diminishing returns?


 


 I can not speake for the 6SE since I have never listen to one but compared the the WA22 IMO it is a night and day difference and well worth the extra cost. My T1 and HD800 have never sounded as good as with the WA5-LE. When I mande th ecomparison between the WA22 and WA5-LE I was using my own balanced T1/Zeus (ans Zeus adapter for the WA5-LE).


----------



## sillysally

Ya a picture is worth a thousand words.
  Note: The pot is not a standard pot that Jack uses, its a AlpsRK50. Other than that a new WA5LE should look the same, but I think Jack is using some different parts but still close to what you see in the picture.


----------



## sunmonkey

Thanks everyone for the input on the WA5-LE. I got what I was looking for (and a wee bit more).
   
  Now, if someone would only set fire to the ships we sailed over in, I could concentrate on the task at hand.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Thanks everyone for the input on the WA5-LE. I got what I was looking for (and a *wee* bit more).
> 
> Now, if someone would only set fire to the ships we sailed over in, I could concentrate on the task at hand.


 






 Clever, the way you worked in the Dynamic to Electrostatic Headphone Converter.


----------



## 188479

Hi All:
   
  All of this talk about the WA5/WA5LE has brought up a question I would like to ask.  If you are not going to run speakers, is there any benefit to getting a WA5?  I'm thinking that I read that some users of the HE-6 were running it from the full power K1000 jack in the WA5 (or from the speaker outputs).  Without having that option in the WA5LE, does it have enough power to drive the HE-6 and other power hungry cans?


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Clever, the way you worked in the Dynamic to Electrostatic Headphone Converter.


 
  Not that the WEE doesn't have its own understated charm, buuuttt....

 The WES is the most beautiful piece of audio kit I have laid my over-grasping little eyes upon. I want to buy electrostatics just so I can justify a WES purchase. At 5K, that's a hella tenuous justification.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hi All:
> 
> All of this talk about the WA5/WA5LE has brought up a question I would like to ask.  If you are not going to run speakers, is there any benefit to getting a WA5?  I'm thinking that I read that some users of the HE-6 were running it from the full power K1000 jack in the WA5 (or from the speaker outputs).  Without having that option in the WA5LE, does it have enough power to drive the HE-6 and other power hungry cans?


 


  In my system it depends on the driver tubes I am using. Most of the 6SN7 and 6F8G are fine but for some reason with the ECC32 it does not power them good enough. Also, even that they are 50 ohms I run them out of the High Impedance output. SS drives them out of the Low Impedance with good results but his power tubes are different than mine and a gem.
   
  I bought mine without having the HE-6 in mind back then. If I was buying it now I would go with the WA5 just to have the option of driving the HE-6 from the K1K output.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Not that the WEE doesn't have its own understated charm, buuuttt....
> 
> The WES is the most beautiful piece of audio kit I have laid my over-grasping little eyes upon. I want to buy electrostatics just so I can justify a WES purchase. At 5K, that's a hella tenuous justification.


 

 True. Although, it could make for a great lifestyle change. I see therapeutic benefits. Avatar - great backdrop by the way...


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





silent one said:


> True. Although, it could make for a great lifestyle change. I see therapeutic benefits. Avatar - great backdrop by the way...


 

 Nice lifestyle change -- me and my Woo WA5-LE 'max' living in a cardboard box in a cozy back alley, bottle of the finest vintage Ripple, 300Bs all a'glow. The downside? The PS1000's are open back; I'll need to soundproof the heck outta my cardboard box. Double boxed.
   
  The backdrop is the Caribbean, Grand Bahama. In the foreground, a rum-addled hobo man. I am not too picky about my tropical paradises. As long as the location is tropical-ish and gets in the ballpark of paradise, smiles abound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> I am not too picky about my tropical paradises. As long as the location is tropical-ish and gets in the ballpark of paradise, smiles abound.


 

 +1


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Found this on youtube a while back. Take it with a grain of salt. But I think it's kind of cool to watch. Even if it sort of plugs KR Audio.
  Keep in mind these are 'boutique' (and proprietary) tubes. Not the mass produced by machinery sort.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

You may also like this. Some of you might even be using old Mullard's maybe from this very factory.


----------



## GouldPhoto

Something shiny new to join the blackness of the WOO....

   
  Now I have to start re-listening to all my reference tracks again and do alot of 650 vs 800 comparisons. Initial impressions compared to 650's from WA6SE w/stock tubes.
   
  More open (like removing cotton from my ears after listening to the 650)
  Larger soundstage
  Definitely brighter (but not harsh)
  Not lacking in bass, just a different presentation of it
  Very detailed
   
  So to sum up, exactly what I was expecting based on lots of reading. Next stop, minor tube rolling.
   
  Excited for the next listening session this evening.
   
  Bonus points for identifying the artist and album being played


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hi All:
> 
> All of this talk about the WA5/WA5LE has brought up a question I would like to ask.  If you are not going to run speakers, is there any benefit to getting a WA5?  I'm thinking that I read that some users of the HE-6 were running it from the full power K1000 jack in the WA5 (or from the speaker outputs).  Without having that option in the WA5LE, does it have enough power to drive the HE-6 and other power hungry cans?


 


  You could ask Jack to build you a 5 that has the high power headphone port but not the speaker output taps.  I'm honestly surprised he doesn't offer a 5LE build with this option given the rise of ortho headphones.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hi Everyone:
   
  Just want to chime in about the WA5 sound. I just received my fully upgraded WA5 from Modena (stock tubes however) last evening and hooked it up to my system and have some initial impressions. I also have a WA22 with Tungsol 6NS7 Black glass round plates, EML 5U4G Mesh plates and tungsol 5998 power tubes, and was using this balanced to drive my LCD-2 and LCD-3's.
  My DAC is a Calyx DAC that is getting music from a headless Mac Mini, with SSD and 8Gigs of RAM. Most of my music is CD's imported at apple Lossless and I also have many albums purchased at 24/192.
  Needless to say the sound from my WA22 was excellent, and many times listening to it, I would think "It could not possibly sound any better than this". The music was very smooth and articulate, almost like you were present at the performance.
  Well, from my couple of hours of listening to my new WA5, it is night and day difference from the WA22. Soundstage seems wider, vocals are better, base is better as are the highs. Again, hard to believe, but there is no denying which I would prefer to listen to.
  I will probably sell my WA22 in a few weeks as I really can't see myself listening to it with the WA5 on hand.
  This is even with stock Tubes and my WA22 having fairly high end tubes.
  I was debating whether to go for a WA5LE, but it would not have the K1000 connector if I ever got a HE-6 or K1000. Also I am not quite sure but I think to drive the WEE you need the speaker outputs which the LE does not have. Some day I may pick up some Stax 009's and use a WEE to drive them (until I consider upgrading to say a WES).
  Also as a bonus, Modena had a sub-out connection added to the unit. I am going to try hooking up one of my subwoofers to the unit when listening to my LCD-3's to see how it alters the presentation. Will probably do that this weekend, and report back with some pics also.
   
  Peace.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> You could ask Jack to build you a 5 that has the high power headphone port but not the speaker output taps.  I'm honestly surprised he doesn't offer a 5LE build with this option given the rise of ortho headphones.


 
   
  Agreed, I have been wondering this as well.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Rumbleripper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I will probably sell my WA22 in a few weeks as I really can't see myself listening to it with the WA5 on hand.
> ...


 

  I'm slightly comforted by the fact that I am using entirely different (upgraded) tubes. Very slightly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The ability to drive any headphone along with a WEE (definitely needs speaker taps) is reason enough to change to the WA5, and you have articulated the sonic differences nicely as well.
   
  But I love my WA22 so my plans are a bit different. I would like to get it upgraded to a preamp and let it feed my balanced SS speaker amp. Which can then drive a WEE if I want, along with HE-6/K1000.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i feel like selling my WA6SE + WA2 and getting a WA5 now... except i'm still several hundred dollars short, i'd have to sell some headphones or something.


----------



## jerico

dubstep girl said:


> i feel like selling my WA6SE + WA2 and getting a WA5 now... except i'm still several hundred dollars short, i'd have to sell some headphones or something.




And the black hole claims another victim!


----------



## Silent One

Woo Audio Amp Academy--
   
  I liken the WA5 belonging to a different class offered at the same academy. A few underlying similarities and profound differences.


----------



## Draygonn

dubstep girl said:


> i feel like selling my WA6SE + WA2 and getting a WA5 now... except i'm still several hundred dollars short, i'd have to sell some headphones or something.



I'll just leave this here


----------



## sunmonkey

[And now, the coup d' grace]
   
  Well gosh, I can now see why you'd all want to upgrade to the WA5 family of headphone amps. They put all the other Woos to shame.
   
  And instead of bearing the emotional burden of starting a discussion that led to WA6-SE and WA22s littering the world's drainage ditches and garbage dumps, I feel I should step up and offer to buy your current trusty and beloved and wildly inadequate Woos at great savings, you know, given their dilapidated states from the vicious wear and tear visited upon them by you 'active' listeners.
   
  I'm here to help. At great savings. PM me.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hi Everyone:
> 
> Just want to chime in about the WA5 sound. I just received my fully upgraded WA5 from Modena (stock tubes however) last evening and hooked it up to my system and have some initial impressions. I also have a WA22 with Tungsol 6NS7 Black glass round plates, EML 5U4G Mesh plates and tungsol 5998 power tubes, and was using this balanced to drive my LCD-2 and LCD-3's.
> My DAC is a Calyx DAC that is getting music from a headless Mac Mini, with SSD and 8Gigs of RAM. Most of my music is CD's imported at apple Lossless and I also have many albums purchased at 24/192.
> ...


 

 I totally agree with your impressions and that was exactly why I changed mi mind when I compared the WA22 and WA5 in the 2010 CanJam. Unfortunately the HE-6 were not in my radar back then an I went with the LE 
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty
  If I was buying it now I would go with the WA5 instead of the LE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I totally agree with your impressions and that was exactly why I changed mi mind when I compared the WA22 and WA5 in the 2010 CanJam. Unfortunately the HE-6 were not in my radar back then an I went with the LE
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty
> _*If I was buying it now I would go with the WA5 instead of the LE. *_


 

 Me too.


----------



## sunmonkey

Thanks to everyone on the thoughts. It sounds like as you go up the Woo line, you reap noticeable improvement on all axes. I think the 'puter buying rule comes into play: buy as much CPU power as you can afford. The computer will last you the longest and is the best investment for the money, and you can always extend the RAM and harddrive later.
   
  In this case, the CPU is the base amplifier, and the upgrades are the tubes. It feels as though I should 'hold out' for one of the WE5s (LE or full, possibly even 'maxxed'). It might take a bit longer to save up but I'll know I am getting one of the very best. If I went for the WA6-SE, which I think is an extremely reasonable and solid contender, I'd just get upgrade-itis after a few months. I sit here, head bowed, crying silently into my coffee.
   
  Now, to turn my attentions to a new DAC. If I can find one with a half-decent amp stage to get me through these Woo-lean months, excellent. If anyone has strong opinions, please DM me (I've learned to trust you all on this thread, and value your opinions.)
   
  One thing that I'm still hazy on: the WA22, balanced. From what I know of Krell 'balanced' units, you don't necessarily need to be running the balanced outs to see the benefit. It more has to do with channel path separation within the amp itself which keeps the signals clean. While using the balanced connections is recommended due to the gain and signal purity, even if you don't you should still see the benefits of a balanced topology no matter what 'out' you use. Am I talking crap, or does that make sense?


----------



## grokit

IME some headphones respond better to balanced cabling than others. There are a couple of other advantages but they are negligible IMO.


----------



## MacedonianHero

According to Jack (and my ears) a balanced source is a must with the WA22. But yes, my HD800s and LCD-3s do sound a bit better balanced than single ended. But there was a much bigger difference when I changed my unbalanced source (Cary XCiter DAC...one incredibly neutral and revealing DAC) for a balanced source (W4S DAC-2).


----------



## sunmonkey

Peter: Thanks for your thoughts on the Woos and the DACs. I just stumbled upon your comparison review of the WA2 vs. the WA22 and it gave me a lot of additional valuable info. Excellent review.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Peter: Thanks for your thoughts on the Woos and the DACs. I just stumbled upon your comparison review of the WA2 vs. the WA22 and it gave me a lot of additional valuable info. Excellent review.


 

 Thanks dude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought that comparative review fell into Head-Fi oblivion.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Thanks dude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 







 It entered the Reserve Book Room under "Reference," actually...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Thanks to everyone on the thoughts. It sounds like as you go up the Woo line, you reap noticeable improvement on all axes. I think the 'puter buying rule comes into play: buy as much CPU power as you can afford. The computer will last you the longest and is the best investment for the money, and you can always extend the RAM and harddrive later.
> 
> In this case, the CPU is the base amplifier, and the upgrades are the tubes. It feels as though I should 'hold out' for one of the WE5s (LE or full, possibly even 'maxxed'). It might take a bit longer to save up but I'll know I am getting one of the very best. If I went for the WA6-SE, which I think is an extremely reasonable and solid contender, I'd just get upgrade-itis after a few months. I sit here, head bowed, crying silently into my coffee.
> 
> ...


 


  You are correct regarding the balance topology but in the case of pure sound performance between the WA22 and WA5 (or LE) the WA5 even being single ended outperforms the WA22. I did that comparison going with a balanced source, WA22 and balanced T1 with Zeus cable against Same source but using the single ended outputs, WA5 and the same T1 with a XLR to TRS adapter.
   
  My original intentions were to buy the WA22 since my systems are fully balanced but after that comparison and a face to face conversation with Jack I went with the WA5.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It entered the Reserve Book Room under "Reference," actually...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Thanks to everyone on the thoughts. It sounds like as you go up the Woo line, you reap noticeable improvement on all axes. I think the 'puter buying rule comes into play: buy as much CPU power as you can afford. The computer will last you the longest and is the best investment for the money, and you can always extend the RAM and harddrive later.
> 
> In this case, the CPU is the base amplifier, and the upgrades are the tubes. It feels as though I should 'hold out' for one of the WE5s (LE or full, possibly even 'maxxed'). It might take a bit longer to save up but I'll know I am getting one of the very best. If I went for the WA6-SE, which I think is an extremely reasonable and solid contender, I'd just get upgrade-itis after a few months. I sit here, head bowed, crying silently into my coffee.
> 
> ...


 


  MacedonianHero rightly points out the W4S DAC-2 as an outstanding Balanced source, should you go '22.' What's more, I recommend the DAC-2 because in the event you decide to go single-ended amp, you'll still benefit from the outstanding isolation and reduced Jitter in the W4S box. So, now your flexibility with amps increases.
   
  Also, because it's not like you're without any music at this time, you'd be better served to wait and just get what you want later. However, the demand for Pre-owned Woo Audio amps is strong, so you could go down either path successfully without a hitch or doubt!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> You are correct regarding the balance topology but in the case of pure sound performance between the WA22 and WA5 (or LE) the WA5 even being single ended outperforms the WA22. I did that comparison going with a balanced source, WA22 and balanced T1 with Zeus cable against Same source but using the single ended outputs, WA5 and the same T1 with a XLR to TRS adapter.
> 
> My original intentions were to buy the WA22 since my systems are fully balanced but after that comparison and a face to face conversation with Jack I went with the WA5.


 

 This is true as it's what's under the hood that matters.


----------



## sunmonkey

Thanks MusicMan59 and SilentOne-san, and everyone else that's chimed in the past few pages.
   
  My course is clear. Now I seek the patience to follow it through. First step, remove all temptation.
   
  Therefore, I ask of you all: stop talking about Woo amps for the next six months.


----------



## Silent One

Ok.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll just leave this here


 

 ahh!! 
  you're so evil!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  you're gonna make me go broke lol. must resist....
   
  i could sell WA6-SE + WA2 and maybe my RS1 and buy it.
   
  but i love my rs1 way too much. like they are my favs besides my t1 and lcd-2
   
  or i could get rid of my k701 + pro 900s since i don't use them much...
   
   
  hmm... but then that would be with stock tubes and no upgrades, i wonder how much better the premium parts makes it. cause that comment about it being alot better was for the premium parts version.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

6. Do I need to adjust voltage bias?
  Voltage bias on our current amplifiers are self-adjusted. A matched pair of tubes is what you need.

 Just wondering if tubes HAVE to be matched. Because it would seem that WA2 compatible power tubes at the Tubestore.com http://thetubestore.com/6as7types.html don't have matching offered. At all. (a search of 6080s turns up less options). 6v4 / EZ80 rectifiers aren't offered matching either. 6DJ8/6922 types are sold with matching as an option.
   
  I'm interested in some of the offerings (I like some of the bulb styles on the 6AS7s) but the FAQ says I need matched. Can I rely on the Amplifier's own ability to self adjust to compensate or should I put faith that, like most manufacturing, engineered product off a line is made to fall within 'acceptable' ranges.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hi Everyone:
> 
> Just want to chime in about the WA5 sound. I just received my fully upgraded WA5 from Modena (stock tubes however) last evening and hooked it up to my system and have some initial impressions. I also have a WA22 with Tungsol 6NS7 Black glass round plates, EML 5U4G Mesh plates and tungsol 5998 power tubes, and was using this balanced to drive my LCD-2 and LCD-3's.
> My DAC is a Calyx DAC that is getting music from a headless Mac Mini, with SSD and 8Gigs of RAM. Most of my music is CD's imported at apple Lossless and I also have many albums purchased at 24/192.
> ...


 

 Congratulations. I am very curious to see how the sub out system works with the LCD-3s? I had Jack put an RCA preamp output X2 on my Woo5LE as a way to combine the AKG k701s with a subwoofer. I'm interested in how you do the room placement and settings to achieve a correct blend? Enjoy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be interesting to read about which subwoofer you use.


----------



## jerico

RE: WA22 and balanced sources - I've run single-ended sources into mine (my TT, my other DAC) and it sounds excellent. It's hard to compare against the balanced input - though I could try running my W4S DAC2 into the 22 both single ended and balanced, as an A/B - but I definitely don't think the 22 sounds *bad* fed by a single-ended source. I think what one hears is going to be more about the quality of the source, and it's synergy with the 22, rather than whether that source is balanced or not. IMHO.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^ Agreed, the WA22 sounds quite good with an unbalanced source. But it does kick it up a notch with a balanced one.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> ^ Agreed, the WA22 sounds quite good with an unbalanced source. But it does kick it up a notch with a balanced one.


 


  Indeed. My favorite listening experience so far has been listening to a LP of Hank Mobley's Hi Voltage.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ahh!!
> you're so evil!!!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you are going to go for it my recommendation is to go with all the parts upgrade first. You can upgrade tubes later and you can get good NOS rectifiers and drivers for not much. Your bigger tube expense is going to be with the 300B tubes. I also would recommend you to buy Neotech OCC copper chassis wire and send it to Jack to wire your amp. It does make a difference and it not a huge expense.
   
  Mine has all the parts upgrade, teflon sockets, WBT Nextgen RCAs, Neotech OCC copper wiring, Cardas eutectic solder (also sent to Jack). The only big upgrade I did not do was the RK50 volume pot. That option alone was $700 more and Jack said it makes a difference but more in the feel than in the performance to justify the extra investment. I still think how it would be to have it on.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well.


----------



## musicman59

I recently bought a pair of Tungsol 6F8G tubes and they came with a pair of adapters for a WA6 amplifier. They convert 6F8G to 6DE7. The person who sold them to me did not know if they work in the WA6-SE.
  If somebody is interested to buy them send me a PM. I have no use for them.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hi everyone:
   
  Well I have posted up some pics and impressions of my new WA5 vs the WA22 on the Summit fi forum. If you want to check it out the link is:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/591753/wa5-k1000-connector-with-lcd-3-and-balanced-cable
   
  Rumble


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I recently bought a pair of Tungsol 6F8G tubes and they came with a pair of adapters for a WA6 amplifier. They convert 6F8G to 6DE7. The person who sold them to me did not know if they work in the WA6-SE.
> If somebody is interested to buy them send me a PM. I have no use for them.


 

 It will not work with the _WA6 Special Edition_. A new adapter with a capacitor, resistor and grid cap/wires is needed.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It will not work with the _WA6 Special Edition_. A new adapter with a capacitor, resistor and grid cap wires is needed.


 

 This ones have the grid cap but don't know about the capacitor and resistor.


----------



## grokit

Speaking of 300B tubes, has anybody had a chance to try these out?
   

_"Psvane Audio and their behind-the-scene investors have been busy sourcing vacuum tube materials from exactly where Western Electric used to source theirs for making the legendary 300B tubes. Now a 100% 1:1 WE300B Replica tube model has become available...the Psvane WE300B Replica is: “100% 1:1 replica of WE300B, including materials, structure, internal and external size – up to the detail of a tiny screw used"_
   
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-we300b-11-replica/


----------



## jerico

macedonianhero said:


> ^ Agreed, the WA22 sounds quite good with an unbalanced source. But it does kick it up a notch with a balanced one.




Fair enough!


----------



## shipsupt

I'd be cautious not knowing what pins wired are to what pins.  Glenn might be able to help...
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> This ones have the grid cap but don't know about the capacitor and resistor.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> 6. Do I need to adjust voltage bias?
> Voltage bias on our current amplifiers are self-adjusted. A matched pair of tubes is what you need.
> 
> Just wondering if tubes HAVE to be matched. Because it would seem that WA2 compatible power tubes at the Tubestore.com http://thetubestore.com/6as7types.html don't have matching offered. At all. (a search of 6080s turns up less options). 6v4 / EZ80 rectifiers aren't offered matching either. 6DJ8/6922 types are sold with matching as an option.
> ...


 

 Not having a close match won't hurt the amp.  I've run tubes that aren't even within 20% of each other without trouble, though you don't want to get really far apart or you run the risk of volume level mismatching between the channels.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> This ones have the grid cap but don't know about the capacitor and resistor.


 
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I'd be cautious not knowing what pins wired are to what pins.  Glenn might be able to help...


 

 For WA6 only; adapter lacks capacitor and resistor for use in the _Special Edition._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Indeed. My favorite listening experience so far has been listening to a LP of Hank Mobley's Hi Voltage.


 

 Great avatar! Now, if you could just take on the big record labels. My Woo needs feeding - more variety in hi-rez downloads.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Speaking of 300B tubes, has anybody had a chance to try these out?
> 
> 
> _"Psvane Audio and their behind-the-scene investors have been busy sourcing vacuum tube materials from exactly where Western Electric used to source theirs for making the legendary 300B tubes. Now a 100% 1:1 WE300B Replica tube model has become available...the Psvane WE300B Replica is: “100% 1:1 replica of WE300B, including materials, structure, internal and external size – up to the detail of a tiny screw used"_
> ...


 
   
   
   







 No chance. But I did have an opportunity, in the previous moment, to rub my WA6SE owning hands together and salivate. I spoke to a Western Electric Rep last February and she informed that they were hard at work restoring the famed tube. Was unable to give me specifics but did say their goal was the end of 2011 if all went well. Wondering if these two efforts are one and the same...




   
  I realize the box says "Tribute to Western Electric." But the mention of "Investors" caught my eye.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For WA6 only; adapter lacks capacitor and resistor for use in the _Special Edition._


 


  Thanks!
  That's what the previous owner said. He was using them in the WA6 and he did not know if they work on the SE. Thanks for the clarification.
  Anyway, they are available for a WA6 owner interested.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I realize the box says "Tribute to Western Electric." But the mention of "Investors" caught my eye.


 
   
   Investors probably refers to Grant Fidelity and a handful of Japanese interests.  Will be interesting to see what comes of Psvane in the future though, their hifi series could be a good value once it is expanded.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Investors probably refers to Grant Fidelity and a handful of Japanese interests.  Will be interesting to see what comes of Psvane in the future though, their hifi series could be a good value once it is expanded.


 


  Since my post came before clicking on the link... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still on the lookout for WE's efforts and wish them luck. I'm pulling for Psvane and any others that could bring price and competition to the audiophile community.


----------



## musicman59

I could not find any third party or customer's reviews yet. GF is offering 5 pairs for $850 without the "special box" and free shipping. After those are gone they will be $1,000 delivered.
  I they are really as good as WE I would jump fora pair but I am concern about making that investment without any information from a known reviewer or several customers.


----------



## sling5s

I just recently purchased a year old woo 6.  The seller said stock rectifier, but it looks like the Sophia (the same shape).
  Do the stock rectifiers also have the same look or shape as the sophia princess?


----------



## shipsupt

A lot of rectifiers have a similar look. Do you have the amp yet? Any markings on the tube? The princess is usually pretty clearly marked.




sling5s said:


> I just recently purchased a year old woo 6.  The seller said stock rectifier, but it looks like the Sophia (the same shape).
> Do the stock rectifiers also have the same look or shape as the sophia princess?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> ^ Agreed, the WA22 sounds quite good with an unbalanced source. But it does kick it up a notch with a balanced one.


 

 As a matter of fact, I thought a balanced source is more important to maxing out the WA22 sound than a balanced headphone.


----------



## Gabrielisc

Does anyone know what type of jacks wooaudio use? as in.
  Silver plated XLR outputs for the WA22?
  Rear RCAs for WA2 are made out of?


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> As a matter of fact, I thought a balanced source is more important to maxing out the WA22 sound than a balanced headphone.


 


  That has been on my mind, and not sure anyone answered it head on. I would (based on my limited knowledge) tend to agree with you. The more important link in the fidelity chain here would be the connection between the source and the amp; that is where the sonic information needs to be preserved as much as possible.
   
  Not saying you can replace your headphone cabling with rubber bands, but I imagine gain and channel separation, etc. are less important after the signal has been amped.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> That has been on my mind, and not sure anyone answered it head on. I would (based on my limited knowledge) tend to agree with you. The more important link in the fidelity chain here would be the connection between the source and the amp; that is where the sonic information needs to be preserved as much as possible.
> 
> Not saying you can replace your headphone cabling with rubber bands, but I imagine gain and channel separation, etc. are less important after the signal has been amped.


 

 The WA22 really cannot be used with the single ended input it is a push pull amp with no phase inverter. when using the single ended input they feed just one side of the
  push pull amps putting out a distorted output. I don't know why they even put a SE input on that amp. I found this out when I worked on a WA22 and was going to spec it
  I fed the signal generator into the SE input and all I got out was a distorted output. Had to use a signal generator with a second phase shifted output to supply a balanced
  input to spec the amp.
  The output really don't matter if you use a balanced or SE headphone one side of the signal is tied to ground anyway so the output is the same ether way.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The WA22 really cannot be used with the single ended input it is a push pull amp with no phase inverter. when using the single ended input they feed just one side of the
> push pull amps putting out a distorted output. I don't know why they even put a SE input on that amp. I found this out when I worked on a WA22 and was going to spec it
> I fed the signal generator into the SE input and all I got out was a distorted output. Had to use a signal generator with a second phase shifted output to supply a balanced
> input to spec the amp.
> The output really don't matter if you use a balanced or SE headphone one side of the signal is tied to ground anyway so the output is the same ether way.


 

  
   
  but it doesn't sound distorted when people use it, does it?


----------



## Rumbleripper

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The WA22 really cannot be used with the single ended input it is a push pull amp with no phase inverter. when using the single ended input they feed just one side of the
> push pull amps putting out a distorted output. I don't know why they even put a SE input on that amp. I found this out when I worked on a WA22 and was going to spec it
> I fed the signal generator into the SE input and all I got out was a distorted output. Had to use a signal generator with a second phase shifted output to supply a balanced
> input to spec the amp.
> The output really don't matter if you use a balanced or SE headphone one side of the signal is tied to ground anyway so the output is the same ether way.


 

 Completely agree with this. When I got my WA22 I was always planning to go fully balanced with it. So I went and purchased aftermarket balanced Cables (Norse). When I bought them I also purchased XLR to ¼" adaptor to use the cable SE.
  When it came in I was very surprised after A/B'ing the sound between the 4 pin XLR and using the adaptor and going with the ¼" adaptor SE. There was really no difference that I could pick out at all. So if you have a WA22 should be fine with the standard headphone connector, no need to go balanced cable to the headphones.
   
  Rumble


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> So if you have a WA22 should be fine with the standard headphone connector, no need to go balanced cable to the headphones.


 

 2359Glenn and Rumbleripper: Thank you both for the posts. With that new info, I think the WA22 is back in the running. I know GolfNutz has his WA22 FS. Hmmm... in black, nonetheless.
   
  <Strokes chin whiskers and squints into the distance, nodding slowly in agreement with voices unheard.>
   
  EDIT: Whoops, GolfNutz's 22 SOLD. Shew, the Woo go fast.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Completely agree with this. When I got my WA22 I was always planning to go fully balanced with it. So I went and purchased aftermarket balanced Cables (Norse). When I bought them I also purchased XLR to ¼" adaptor to use the cable SE.
> When it came in I was very surprised after A/B'ing the sound between the 4 pin XLR and using the adaptor and going with the ¼" adaptor SE. There was really no difference that I could pick out at all. So if you have a WA22 should be fine with the standard headphone connector, no need to go balanced cable to the headphones.
> 
> Rumble


 

 True, but I still reterminated my HD800 and K240 Sextett with 4-pin XLRs as they feel sturdier than 1/4" plugs.


  Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> Does anyone know what type of jacks wooaudio use? as in.
> Silver plated XLR outputs for the WA22?
> Rear RCAs for WA2 are made out of?


 

 No idea, but the front XLR jacks of my WA22 are from Neutrik, same with the 1/4" jack I suspect. I upgraded my IEC inlet to a Furutech one though.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> but it doesn't sound distorted when people use it, does it?


 


 Yes and no some people like the sound of some distortions. Does it sound like clipping no but it will not clip evenly when using the SE input


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Completely agree with this. When I got my WA22 I was always planning to go fully balanced with it. So I went and purchased aftermarket balanced Cables (Norse). When I bought them I also purchased XLR to ¼" adaptor to use the cable SE.
> When it came in I was very surprised after A/B'ing the sound between the 4 pin XLR and using the adaptor and going with the ¼" adaptor SE. There was really no difference that I could pick out at all. So if you have a WA22 should be fine with the standard headphone connector, no need to go balanced cable to the headphones.
> 
> Rumble


 

 What I remember reading about the balanced output for headphones is that in single ended you have the positive signal and the negative is just ground with no signal compared to balanced where you have the positive signal and the negative is the inverted phase of the positive so like this the headphones are actually receiving twice the signal but one is inverted working kind of in a push pull and in theory providing more control therefore better sound.
   
  That was my understanding when I was trying to get documented about balanced headphones before I went that route. My first balanced amplifier was a Rudistor RP010B and my first balanced headphones were HD650. The source was the balanced output of my Threshold DAC 1e. I remember trying the headphones out of the balanced outputs and using an adapter to try them out of the single ended outputs and with that set up and those headphones there was a clear difference between the balanced and the single ended output.  The sound was more powerful, cleaner and the the soundstage bigger. That was my experience in that specific case but I don't have the electronics background to support the theory or what I read just my own impressions which could be wrong but I just trust my ears and go with what makes me happy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now a better single ended design or higher quality and powerful amplifier can tromp a balanced one just like what happened when I compared the WA22 to the WA5.
   
  If I would to go balanced I personally go all balanced from the source to the headphones but that is just my preference.


----------



## sling5s

No markings.  Yeah, I think it's stock.  I just placed an order for the Sophia and 6GL7 power tubes.  Together it's quite pricey.  Hope it improves the sound over the stock.
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> A lot of rectifiers have a similar look. Do you have the amp yet? Any markings on the tube? The princess is usually pretty clearly marked.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> What I remember reading about the balanced output for headphones is that in single ended you have the positive signal and the negative is just ground with no signal compared to balanced where you have the positive signal and the negative is the inverted phase of the positive so like this the headphones are actually receiving twice the signal but one is inverted working kind of in a push pull and in theory providing more control therefore better sound.
> 
> That was my understanding when I was trying to get documented about balanced headphones before I went that route. My first balanced amplifier was a Rudistor RP010B and my first balanced headphones were HD650. The source was the balanced output of my Threshold DAC 1e. I remember trying the headphones out of the balanced outputs and using an adapter to try them out of the single ended outputs and with that set up and those headphones there was a clear difference between the balanced and the single ended output.  The sound was more powerful, cleaner and the the soundstage bigger. That was my experience in that specific case but I don't have the electronics background to support the theory or what I read just my own impressions which could be wrong but I just trust my ears and go with what makes me happy.
> 
> ...


 


 You are right in a truly balanced amp with balanced outputs you get a positive and negative signal that adds up to twice
  the voltage at the headphone. So it will sound more powerful. In a WA22 with one side grounded the signal is the same
  if using the SE output or balanced outputs.
      But a WA22 HAS TO HAVE balanced input if you don't have a balanced source don't get a WA22


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You are right in a truly balanced amp with balanced outputs you get a positive and negative signal that adds up to twice
> the voltage at the headphone. So it will sound more powerful. In a WA22 with one side grounded the signal is the same
> if using the SE output or balanced outputs.
> But a WA22 HAS TO HAVE balanced input if you don't have a balanced source don't get a WA22


 

 So the WA22 is not really a "fully balanced" amp since the balanced output does not have the 2 signals?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You are right in a truly balanced amp with balanced outputs you get a positive and negative signal that adds up to twice
> the voltage at the headphone. So it will sound more powerful. In a WA22 with one side grounded the signal is the same
> if using the SE output or balanced outputs.
> But a WA22 HAS TO HAVE balanced input if you don't have a balanced source don't get a WA22


 


 Dumb question. What about a single ended source connected to the XLR input on the WA22 via RCA-->XLR adapters?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You are right in a truly balanced amp with balanced outputs you get a positive and negative signal that adds up to twice
> the voltage at the headphone. So it will sound more powerful. In a WA22 with one side grounded the signal is the same
> if using the SE output or balanced outputs.
> 
> But a WA22 HAS TO HAVE balanced input if you don't have a balanced source don't get a WA22


 

 How much time did you put in just to rewire the balanced outputs of the WA22 to make it a truly balanced amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Dumb question. What about a single ended source connected to the XLR input on the WA22 via RCA-->XLR adapters?


 


 NO that won't work you will still have a single ended input. You would have to have a external phase inverter or input transformers with a center tapped secondary
  to make a balanced signal.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> NO that won't work you will still have a single ended input. You would have to have a external phase inverter or input transformers with a center tapped secondary
> to make a balanced signal.


 

 Would it be better than connecting to SE input, or net out to the same, or worse?


----------



## rosgr63

Actually there is not many truly balanced tube amps.
  On the other hand it's much easier to make a balanced SS.


----------



## sling5s

What are the improvements on the Sophia and 6GL7 upgrades that Woo Audio provides over their stock rectifier and power tubes on Woo 6?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How much time did you put in just to rewire the balanced outputs of the WA22 to make it a truly balanced amp?


 


 Not really that much i done it when I did the other mods in the amp. What I did was to change the 1/4" jack to one that has built in switches that only hooks the ground up
  when using the 1/4" jack. One thing is I didn't really notice much change in sound on the balanced output weather the ground was hooked up or not_ _


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Would it be better than connecting to SE input, or net out to the same, or worse?


 


 No Just use the SE input there is nothing to gain by using the balanced plugs and only using one connection.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Actually there is not many truly balanced tube amps.
> On the other hand it's much easier to make a balanced SS.


 


 Actually all truly balanced amps are SS really 4 amplifiers each 2 out of phase. I am not a believer in balanced amps twice as many parts to color the sound.
   I believe LESS IS MORE the fewer parts the better the sound. Really balanced lines are really needed in recording studios ware the audio lines are long
  and can pick up hum and noise that gets canceled out in a balanced line. The line to a headphone is low impedance and is not going to pick up noise.


----------



## hodgjy

These are my thoughts as well.  There has been a lot of discussion about this in the sound science thread headed up by kwkarth and others.  Good reads if you're interested.
  
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Actually all truly balanced amps are SS really 4 amplifiers each 2 out of phase. I am not a believer in balanced amps twice as many parts to color the sound.
> I believe LESS IS MORE the fewer parts the better the sound. Really balanced lines are really needed in recording studios ware the audio lines are long
> and can pick up hum and noise that gets canceled out in a balanced line. The line to a headphone is low impedance and is not going to pick up noise.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> I just recently purchased a year old woo 6.  The seller said stock rectifier, but it looks like the Sophia (the same shape).
> Do the stock rectifiers also have the same look or shape as the sophia princess?


 


   
  The generic Shuguang 274B tubes are the same size and globe shape as the Sophia Princess.  I believe Woo started shipping these as standard about a year ago.


----------



## Silent One

*Woo Audio WA22: "Fully Balanced" or No?*
   
  There are a few members who posted earlier today, that were present during original discussions on the topic in the "WA22-Internal-Pictures" thread. For the rest of the readers, a little background from the following link:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/456258/wa22-internal-pictures
   
  Beginning in 2009, calls for internal pix went unanswered until Seamaster posted internal pix of his '22' in January 2010. Which eventually led to comments being made in January 2011 about the amp not being truly balanced.
   
  At one point, a member posted a drawing to support why the amp isn't fully balanced. Eventually, Jack Wu jumped in to explain that members were interpreting the schematic incorrectly. Only two members (out of several) were satisfied with Jack's position. If asked, I'd say the matter one year later to-date is still not resolved.
   
  I value member 2359glenn's input highly. I am aware of his position on the matter. It could really benefit this thread if the two amp builders had an exchange - Glenn presenting his own findings and getting Jack to respond. It's obvious that the "Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite" thread is a destination to bring about discussion on Woo Audio amps. But, in my view, there is no finer time than now to bring clarity to the issue of the WA22's design and status of being "Fully Balanced."





   
  Even if I didn't own a '22' (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _say what?!_) or a 6SE, as a audiophile and electronic enthusiast, I'd still seek to get greater understanding on the matter. And yes, I'm fully aware the '22' needs a Balanced source in this regard.


----------



## Silent One

I think the "*Artists to Watch" *column is a great addition to Head-Fi.
   
  @ Jude


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Woo Audio WA22: "Fully Balanced" or No?*
> 
> There are a few members who posted earlier today, that were present during original discussions on the topic in the "WA22-Internal-Pictures" thread. For the rest of the readers, a little background from the following link:
> 
> ...


 


 What I was trying to say a year ago that it doesn't really matter the amp will sound the same ether way. I don't see any benefit
  going balanced to the headphones. When I had MMs WA22 and picked off the ground I really didn't notice much difference in sound
  or notice a difference from using a balanced cable or SE cable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> As a matter of fact, I thought a balanced source is more important to maxing out the WA22 sound than a balanced headphone.


 


  Totally agreed here Larry.


----------



## sling5s

Is the Sophia brighter than the stock rectifiers on the woo 6?  I'm looking for more warmth.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Totally agreed here Larry.


 

 +2  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although, I really adore my re-cabled xlr separate channel from cup-to-jack D7000's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> What I was trying to say a year ago that it doesn't really matter the amp will sound the same ether way. I don't see any benefit
> going balanced to the headphones. When I had MMs WA22 and picked off the ground I really didn't notice much difference in sound
> or notice a difference from using a balanced cable or SE cable.


 

 Glenn , thanks for clarifying things because often times when things get discussed, contributions coming from all different directions causes drift; latest comments made are likely to be first remembered. Perhaps, you'll recall my discussions with you and MM in that I didn't expect a difference to be heard either... but before you worked your wonder. But I remained open-minded.
   
  I came in late to the party once I learned of your strategy regarding the 1/4 input. I was initially baffled because the TRS is a compact XLR design. So, in my mind I had trouble seeing how it could sound different. In my view, at this writing, I'd still let Jack sell me a '22' and I'd still let you "Hot-Rod" it!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Glenn , thanks for clarifying things because often times when things get discussed, contributions coming from all different directions causes drift; latest comments made are likely to be first remembered. Perhaps, you'll recall my discussions with you and MM in that I didn't expect a difference to be heard either... but before you worked your wonder. But I remained open-minded.
> 
> I came in late to the party once I learned of your strategy regarding the 1/4 input. I was initially baffled because the TRS is a compact XLR design. So, in my mind I had trouble seeing how it could sound different. In my view, at this writing, I'd still let Jack sell me a '22' and I'd still let you "Hot-Rod" it!


 


 Thanks other then a cap change. I can change the 1/4" jack and pick off the grounds when the 1/4" jack is not being used. I don't think It is really a sonic improvement other
  then knowing it is really balanced output now.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

does anyone use a WA2 or WA6/WA6SE with the sony SA5000? I wonder if it would be a good match.


----------



## nanaholic

Just took delivery of a WA2, upgraded from the WA6, to drive my Beyer T1.  Really excited.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nanaholic said:


> Just took delivery of a WA2, upgraded from the WA6, to drive my Beyer T1.  Really excited.


 

 Exciting! Can't wait to get your updates as you turn some hours over on the pair. From what I hear in this space, the combo is a whole lotta magic! You stay stock or get premium tubes?


----------



## nanaholic

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Exciting! Can't wait to get your updates as you turn some hours over on the pair. From what I hear in this space, the combo is a whole lotta magic! You stay stock or get premium tubes?


 


  It's a stock unit right now, will gradually think about tube rolling after getting used to the sound signature, read through that WA2 thread, and when money permits.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nanaholic said:


> It's a stock unit right now, will gradually think about tube rolling after getting used to the sound signature, read through that WA2 thread, and when money permits.


 






  Very wise.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Is the Sophia brighter than the stock rectifiers on the woo 6?  I'm looking for more warmth.


 


  I don't know if someone already answered this, but the sophia is warmer than the stock tube (to my ears). Its an all around better tube. I was playing around with the Emission Labs 5U4G rectifier that I also have.. between the two, the differences I have noticed:
   
  EML: larger soundstage (noticeable), tightened up bass with less impact
  Sophia Princess: warmer, stronger bass impact, more intimate 
   
  Both are great tubes, I can't say which i prefer, just depends on the music you like to listen to.. oh and generally the EML rectifier is more expensive (something to keep in mind).


----------



## leng jai

My itch to tube roll is already starting


----------



## TopCaliber

I got a woo audio headphone stand... Does that count ?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





topcaliber said:


> I got a woo audio headphone stand... Does that count ?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> My itch to tube roll is already starting


 






 You'll be "Rolling" amid a fine group of Head-Fier's, a shared sea of emotions and empty wallets... _come on in!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I don't know if someone already answered this, but the sophia is warmer than the stock tube (to my ears). Its an all around better tube. I was playing around with the Emission Labs 5U4G rectifier that I also have.. between the two, the differences I have noticed:
> 
> EML: larger soundstage (noticeable), tightened up bass with less impact
> Sophia Princess: warmer, stronger bass impact, more intimate
> ...


 

 This mirrors my findings between the two rectifiers except for the size of the soundstage with Miss Sophia escapes me before midnight. But, I do recall she excelled at 'Straight Ahead Jazz'... deliciously so!


----------



## kchew

Silent One, I know you're looking forward to my rectifier shootout, but I accidentally won a used metal-base GZ34 and it'll delay my review. It'll probably take two weeks to arrive and another two weeks for me to get acquainted with it. I'm also debating if I should include the RCA and Tung Sol 5U4GBs that are flying to me right now. It looks like next month will see some heavy tube rolling from me!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Silent One, I know you're looking forward to my rectifier shootout, but I accidentally won a used metal-base GZ34 and it'll delay my review. It'll probably take two weeks to arrive and another two weeks for me to get acquainted with it. I'm also debating if I should include the RCA and Tung Sol 5U4GBs that are flying to me right now. It looks like next month will see some heavy tube rolling from me!


 

 I'm also looking forward to seeing what February holds as promise - your evaluation, my own Linux projects, it's shaping up to being an exciting month! On, and then there's a Head-Fi meet in February as well. Enjoy your shootout - I'm with you in spirit!




  Congrats on the Metal-base GZ34... may it sing for you!


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Not having a close match won't hurt the amp.  I've run tubes that aren't even within 20% of each other without trouble, though you don't want to get really far apart or you run the risk of volume level mismatching between the channels.


 

  
  Did that gap of more than 20% yield any channel imbalance at all? I figure even more than 20% of 'nothing' is still nothing. I'm itching to get in to some tuberolling but so far it sounds like I shouldn't worry too much that rectifiers (and 6AS7s) aren't sold matched.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Silent One, I know you're looking forward to my rectifier shootout, but I accidentally won a used metal-base GZ34 and it'll delay my review. It'll probably take two weeks to arrive and another two weeks for me to get acquainted with it. I'm also debating if I should include the RCA and Tung Sol 5U4GBs that are flying to me right now. It looks like next month will see some heavy tube rolling from me!


 

 kchew, do you have a non metal-base GZ34 to compare as well? I know the metal-base are pretty expensive. It would be nice to know if they're actually worth the extra money over the non metal-base version.


----------



## kchew

Hi Golfnutz, I have a black-base f31 GZ34 as well, with factory/date code X8E indicating manufacture in early 1958 at the Philips Sittard, UK plant. I was not very impressed with this tube; it sounded a bit cold and lean when paired with TS 5998 and Mullard ECC32, although to be honest I've not tried it with the TS BGRP. As I've been hearing a lot of hype around the metal-base variant, I got curious and somehow ended up with one from fleabay. Another alternative to the metal-base that people seem to recommend is the f31 fat base from the Blackburn, UK plant. I believe dannie01 is using them in his WA5?
   
  You might also be interested in the fat bottle GZ37, I have not spent much time analysing it but from initial impressions it's smoother and more lively than the normal skinny GZ37.


----------



## shipsupt

Accidentally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> Silent One, I know you're looking forward to my rectifier shootout, but I accidentally won a used metal-base GZ34 and it'll delay my review. It'll probably take two weeks to arrive and another two weeks for me to get acquainted with it. I'm also debating if I should include the RCA and Tung Sol 5U4GBs that are flying to me right now. It looks like next month will see some heavy tube rolling from me!


----------



## kchew

Yeah, caught me by surprise too. The bids on it were low, probably due to the dirty exterior and all that getter flashing. So I threw in a low bid as well and went to bed. When I woke up the next day I found out I won.


----------



## sling5s

Thanks.  
  Does anyone know how the stock power tubes compare to the other options that woo audio provides:  Option 1 6GL7; Option 2 7N7; Option 3 6SN7GT.
   
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I don't know if someone already answered this, but the sophia is warmer than the stock tube (to my ears). Its an all around better tube. I was playing around with the Emission Labs 5U4G rectifier that I also have.. between the two, the differences I have noticed:
> 
> EML: larger soundstage (noticeable), tightened up bass with less impact
> Sophia Princess: warmer, stronger bass impact, more intimate
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Yeah, caught me by surprise too. The bids on it were low, probably due to the dirty exterior and all that getter flashing. So I threw in a low bid as well and went to bed. When I woke up the next day I found out I won.


 
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Accidentally


 

 Overnight shopping -  when mice turn into rats. In the past, I always dismissed those as internet rumors.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Did that gap of more than 20% yield any channel imbalance at all? I figure even more than 20% of 'nothing' is still nothing. I'm itching to get in to some tuberolling but so far it sounds like I shouldn't worry too much that rectifiers (and 6AS7s) aren't sold matched.


 


  A little, but not enough to really bother.  When the vocals don't image in the center and are starting to pull left or right you know you have an imbalance.  I've experienced this from every type of tube, caused by imbalanced sections from rectifiers and driver tubes, and from poorly matched output tubes.  Both emission and plate current matching play a role I think, because I've had power tubes which were matched for emission that didn't sound balanced still.
   
  It's all part of the tube game, plus sometimes the imbalance is just NOS tubes reaching their normal emission rate.  Tubes that are actually new have low emission during their first few hours, so it is good to not make quick judgements.  I have had several pairs that started out lopsided which evened out with time.


----------



## Silent One

I probably roll avatars more than I roll tubes, we're a bit conservative. Of the 15 tubes in inventory (6 pairs; 3 recs), I've been fortunate to not have experienced listening imbalanced. Sounds t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e. And the first time I do, I'm going to remember Page 1,235. 
   
  Of course, there is that part of my collection from back in the day (Motown and earlier) were many recordings were hard panned Left/Right. Usually, these tracks make me crave for cross-feed.


----------



## shipsupt

I really struggle with that too.  I'm thinking of a Doors album I have that I really like, but with headphones I can't take that drums all the way on the left, guitar extreme right, no crossover but maybe the vocals....  I can't take it!  I'll have to crank that one up on the speakers and see if the I tolerate it better...
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Of course, there is that part of my collection from back in the day (Motown and earlier) were many recordings were hard panned Left/Right. Usually, these tracks make me crave for cross-feed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I really struggle with that too.  I'm thinking of a Doors album I have that I really like, but with headphones I can't take that drums all the way on the left, guitar extreme right, no crossover but maybe the vocals....  I can't take it!  I'll have to crank that one up on the speakers and see if the I tolerate it better...


 

 "Tolerate" is a great way to put it. And to me, this speaks to the heart of the whole head-fi movement that often leaves me challenged. When listening to speakers, no matter how sophisticated or simple the recording mix, the movement and turning of the head results in a more natural real-time experience.
   
  Then there's the "skin-effect," where volume can a play a part of the presentation. Even when the volume is turned down and the movement of air is not readily detected by the listener or vibrations not obvious, I believe the brain to be so sensitive as to draw on whatever cues it can. And the presentation can change what one feels emotionally without consciously feeling anything - that sound emitted can change a room and one's relationship to it while listening.
   
  But these are my views...
   
  With headphones, even when assisted with cross-feed (or without), you turn your head and ain't nuthin' changin'. And that's not natural. And the inability to feel the air change in the room, just all very strange to me. My living situation changed drastically a few years back, so I'm trying to make the best of the new frontier.
   
  Some days (nights, actually), I find myself starved for deep bass. Later this Spring/Summer, may try bi-amping the Woo with some vintage iron. Maybe crossed over @ 80Hz. And have a slice a cake that I can actually eat!


----------



## grokit

Cue Smyth Realiser testimonials...


----------



## shipsupt

I'm really disappointed I missed the demo in the bay area last week. I'd really like to hear one!
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Cue Smyth Realiser testimonials...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Cue Smyth Realiser testimonials...


 


  Yeah, I remember sillysally's own testimony. It's a bit out of my league, though.


----------



## Silent One

VST Plug-ins
   
  Now looking into the Isone Pro recommended by Lunatique a couple of years ago on Head-Fi. 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/473885/isone-pro-the-best-thing-you-could-ever-get-for-your-headphones-on-your-computer


----------



## grokit

Quote:


silent one said:


> Usually, these tracks make me crave for cross-feed.


 
   Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Now looking into the Isone Pro


 

  I saw that coming, be sure to let us know how it works out


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> I saw that coming, be sure to let us know how it works out


 

 That's cold! You sat by to see if I would eventually find my way out of the maze. Entertainment?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was trying to stay away from EQ'ing and plug-ins. Will download the Demo later this evening. What I really need to do is stop buying stuff here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you demo'd?


----------



## grokit

Quote:


silent one said:


> That's cold! You sat by to see if I would eventually find my way out of the maze. Entertainment?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well I remembered that thread when you mentioned crossfeed but didn't remember the name of the plugin. I did think you would seek out some kind of software solution though!
   
  So does it work with Pure Music, or is it Windows only? If the latter that explains why I hadn't downloaded it as I hardly ever listen with the Windows OS these days.
   
  edit: I couldn't get the link to the demo that was in Lunatique's thread to work, but I found something for OS X called TB Isone and grabbed it:
   
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isonesurround/
   
  I will have to give this one a try, it's a VST plugin as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> Well I remembered that thread when you mentioned crossfeed but didn't remember the name of the plugin. I did think you would seek out some kind of software solution though!
> 
> ...


 

 Great find! Yes, it can work with Pure Music and on OS X.


----------



## ardilla

Just got some NOS Tung Sol *5998*'s for my WA2 There were a few very loud cracks and pops through the headphones when warming up and some again after half an hour. 
   
  Can these issues *permanently *disappear after burn in?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great find! Yes, it can work with Pure Music and on OS X.





   
  All that last download link did was download the html web page, here's a better one that links to a download page that includes TB EZQ, as well as TB Isone Surround. They're both free and multi-platform, original post edited.
   
  http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isonesurround/


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just got some NOS Tung Sol *5998*'s for my WA2 There were a few very loud cracks and pops through the headphones when warming up and some again after half an hour.
> 
> Can these issues *permanently *disappear after burn in?


 


  better than my tung sol 5998 which cause my headphone drivers to start vibrating/rattling violently (this is even if the volume knob is at 0 and nothing is playing, just as the wa2 warms up). i hate my ts 5998, they suck. they don't get as loud as stock tube even and don't sound as good as people say
   
  all i got was the ts 5998 which look new but probably aren't. the box says 58/62 and 58/65 on the other one.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just got some NOS Tung Sol *5998*'s for my WA2 There were a few very loud cracks and pops through the headphones when warming up and some again after half an hour.
> 
> Can these issues *permanently *disappear after burn in?


 


  very loud cracks and pops are not normal, even for NOS 60 y.o. tubes. it's most likely arcing and should be tested with a tube tester
  before putting in your $1k+ amp. arcing is usually accompanied by bright flashes. i would send them back to the seller if possible.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just got some NOS Tung Sol *5998*'s for my WA2 There were a few very loud cracks and pops through the headphones when warming up and some again after half an hour.
> 
> Can these issues *permanently *disappear after burn in?


 

 If the crackling is LOUD then it may be a short.  That is not good.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> better than my tung sol 5998 which cause my headphone drivers to start vibrating/rattling violently (this is even if the volume knob is at 0 and nothing is playing, just as the wa2 warms up). i hate my ts 5998, they suck. they don't get as loud as stock tube even and don't sound as good as people say
> 
> all i got was the ts 5998 which look new but probably aren't. the box says 58/62 and 58/65 on the other one.


 

 that's just as unusual... testing each individual tubes is highly recommended before sticking
  them in your expensive amps for long periods of time. get a tube tester (a cheap one is ok)
  that tests for shorts as well as emission/transductance.
   
  in-rush current to the rectifier can sound loud as the amp is initially turned on but the violent
  rattling is most unusual... emission/transductance reading is really meaningless unless you
  know what voltage it's being tested at.


----------



## Draygonn

...deleted...


----------



## hodgjy

My 5998 makes pings while it warms up.  It eventually stops.  Then, it pings again as it cools down after turning it off.  I consider this completely normal because the metal and glass are expanding during warm up and constricting during cool down.
   
  I've had my 5998 for 1.5 years now, and the ping has not gone away.  So, I just turn the amp on, wait 20-30 minutes for it to stop, and then listen.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just got some NOS Tung Sol *5998*'s for my WA2 There were a few very loud cracks and pops through the headphones when warming up and some again after half an hour.
> 
> Can these issues *permanently *disappear after burn in?


----------



## Rawrbington

all these stories about 5998s is disheartening


----------



## hodgjy

Once mine warms up, it sounds wonderful.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> all these stories about 5998s is disheartening


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My 5998 makes pings while it warms up.  It eventually stops.  Then, it pings again as it cools down after turning it off.  I consider this completely normal because the metal and glass are expanding during warm up and constricting during cool down.
> 
> I've had my 5998 for 1.5 years now, and the ping has not gone away.  So, I just turn the amp on, wait 20-30 minutes for it to stop, and then listen.


 


   


  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> all these stories about 5998s is disheartening


 

 Small, quiet pings in the first 30 seconds or so are fine, but I've had some problematic TS5998s. But luckily I've found a few that are ultra quiet and clean sounding.


----------



## Rawrbington

oh yeah yeah im with you guys i freaking LOVE the 5998.
  but thats why these stories maek me so sad.
  if we are all left with shady sellers who are just all recycling the bad tubes between them then one day this prized tube might be extinct.  and then what will us WA3 and WA2 owners do?!?!
   
  i have 3 pairs and 1 pair is very quiet on power up and down, but one of them hums a tiny big out of lower imp cans.
   
  the other two ping a fair bit for the first couple minutes but are dead silent for the most part.  and the noisiest pair on warm up are the quietest and best sounding! lol


----------



## hodgjy

The 5998 was never made in very large quantities to begin with, and once the audio freaks caught on to it, lights out.


----------



## Rawrbington

i need to know something.  and i've been wondering for a while but i just can't seem to figure it out.  perhaps someone can help me.  What is the story behind rolleth in your avy?


----------



## hodgjy

I got my degree from The University of Alabama, and their mascot is the Crimson Tide.  So, we say, "Roll Tide."  My avatar is Shakespeare saying it in, well, Shakespearean English.  But, Silentone made a comment thinking it was in reference to my tube rolling, so I liked it even more.
   
  Check this out if you're interested in the whole Roll Tide thing.
   






  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i need to know something.  and i've been wondering for a while but i just can't seem to figure it out.  perhaps someone can help me.  What is the story behind rolleth in your avy?


----------



## Silent One

*ROLLETH--*
   
  Though, I was off a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I don't think hodgjy was put off by my interpretation at all.


----------



## hodgjy

Not at all.  I liked it even more after your interpretation.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> *ROLLETH--*
> 
> Though, I was off a bit
> 
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

oh no
  a tide fan
  just kidding
   
  i was guessing it had to do with tube rolling but wasn't sure.
  roll damn tide.
  i just remember the audio of the crazy guy that poisoned the toomers trees at auburn and he said roll damn tide at the end lol


----------



## hodgjy

Trust me, as an Alabama man myself, we have universally disowned that idiot for poisoning the trees.  We want to beat Auburn on the field, but we like each other as people.  After the horrible tornado really tore up Tuscaloosa, Auburn folks were the first people on the scene to help out.  We don't ever forget that.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh no
> a tide fan
> just kidding
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Tubes for thought--
   
  Sometimes, I am amazed that with all of our current tech & savvy, companies struggle to produce excellent sounding tubes for audio, matching those of yesteryear. I figure costs, maybe environmental laws come in to play. But it wasn't that long ago.
   
  Sure, many tubes were private-labeled. And many companies bought and sold like lunch. Manufacturing excellence - how hard can this be?


----------



## grokit

I have been noticing that all of the Woo-ites that have been posting about problems with the 5998 power tubes are using them in the WA2. Have there been any issues with these tubes installed in a WA22?
   
  I ask because I have a couple of pairs of CBS-Hytron edit: *Chatham* 2399 tubes (same as TS 5998), and have had no audible issues with them in my WA22. One has a stray piece of glass floating around in it but it doesn't seem to affect anything.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have been noticing that all of the *Woo-ites* that have been posting about problems with the 5998 power tubes are using them in the WA2. Have there been any issues with these tubes installed in a WA22?
> 
> I ask because I have a couple of pairs of CBS-Hytron 2399 tubes (same as TS 5998), and have had no audible issues with them in my WA22. One has a stray piece of glass floating around in it but it doesn't seem to affect anything.


 
   
   
   



  I thought it was Woo-onians? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think they're hit and miss (with TS5998 tubes out there). Luckily I found a source and was able to score 2 pair that were perfect. I've since sold off one pair as I prefer the 7236 on my WA22. I had 1 bad pair on my (now sold) WA2 and 1 pair I had to return on my WA22.


----------



## kchew

I have 4 pairs of 5998s from different sources for my WA22. After a year, half of them have some static in the background. Most ping softly when warming up and cooling down. The quiet ones are darn nice, the slightly noisy ones are still ok but the static does get a bit irritating during quiet passages. Now that the 5998 is almost hunted to extinction, I have to make do with what I have.


----------



## grokit

Whoops, my tube inventory was wrong, I knew it didn't sound right so I checked. They're Chathams 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I ask because I have a couple of pairs of CBS-Hytron *Chatham* 2399 tubes (same as TS 5998), and have had no audible issues with them in my WA22. One has a stray piece of glass floating around in it but it doesn't seem to affect anything.


 
   
  Like MH I prefer the 7236 in my system so I don't use these very much.
   
  Previous post _and_ inventory corrected!


----------



## Rawrbington

chatham 2399?
   
  i have a pair chatham 5998.
   
  whats the difference?
   
  wait, scratch that mine are 2399s as well!
  how have i NEVER noticed that LOL???
   
  question, can i use 1 chatham 2399 and 1 TS 5998 at the same time in my WA2?


----------



## grokit

The consensus (safe) advice would be to put them on a tube tester and see if they qualify as matching.
   
  But do what you want


----------



## hodgjy

TS 5998 = Chatham 5998 = Chatham 2399.  They are all the same.  I've been told by various vendors.  I've own all of them.  They all sound the same.
   
  I would say if your Chatham and TS are closely matched, go ahead and use them at the same time.  They are the same tube.  You'd have no problem putting a GMC radiator in a Chevy truck.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> chatham 2399?
> 
> i have a pair chatham 5998.
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

This might be your chance...
   

   
http://www.kenrockwell.com/Images/audio/2012/tube-factory.pdf
   
  Quote from Ken Rockwell's page...
  "My buddy who founded and owned Groove Tubes retired, and had bought all the original GE production equipment used for certain kinds of audio vacuum tubes.
  If you'd like to bring tube production back to the USA (or anywhere else), here's your chance to do it, with the original equipment!
  Interested? Phone or email Raffie at Industrial Odds & Ends at (818) 253-5692."
   
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tubes for thought--
> 
> Sometimes, I am amazed that with all of our current tech & savvy, companies struggle to produce excellent sounding tubes for audio, matching those of yesteryear. I figure costs, maybe environmental laws come in to play. But it wasn't that long ago.
> 
> Sure, many tubes were private-labeled. And many companies bought and sold like lunch. Manufacturing excellence - how hard can this be?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> TS 5998 = Chatham 5998 = Chatham 2399.  They are all the same.  I've been told by various vendors.  I've own all of them.  They all sound the same.
> 
> I would say if your Chatham and TS are closely matched, go ahead and use them at the same time.  They are the same tube.  You'd have no problem putting a GMC radiator in a Chevy truck.


 


  They don't sound the same tonally.  I say this from personal experience.  Of course it is also just my own opinion.    But to my ears one steel grid post and one copper grid post (which you will find on the 2399 if you look closely) will sound different every time.  Also, I'm talking only about tone, everything else sounds the same to me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> This might be your chance...
> 
> Quote from Ken Rockwell's page...
> "My buddy who founded and owned Groove Tubes retired, and had bought all the original GE production equipment used for certain kinds of audio vacuum tubes.
> ...


 







 Now, about that Bank Loan...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wish i had better experience with TS 5998 thats so highly regarded around here.
   
  i spent 200 dollars on my tubes only to find out they where bad.
   
  this already will probably mean i'lll never buy a tung sol product ever again. and now im mad that ill never get to get how the ts 5998 actually are supposed to sound on the wa2.


----------



## hodgjy

Don't blame the tube.  Blame the seller.  Since the 5998s have been hunted to extinction, questionable sellers feel compelled to pass off tubes they normally wouldn't.  As far as tubes go, Tung-sols are among the best constructed. 
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wish i had better experience with TS 5998 thats so highly regarded around here.
> 
> i spent 200 dollars on my tubes only to find out they where bad.
> 
> this already will probably mean i'lll never buy a tung sol product ever again. and now im mad that ill never get to get how the ts 5998 actually are supposed to sound on the wa2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wish i had better experience with TS 5998 thats so highly regarded around here.
> 
> i spent 200 dollars on my tubes only to find out they where bad.
> 
> this already will probably mean *i'lll never buy a tung sol product ever again.* and now im mad that ill never get to get how the ts 5998 actually are supposed to sound on the wa2.


 


  Poor baby. No, not you Dubstep Girl. But, the one you just threw out with the bath water! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really do feel bad about my fellow member's experience with the TS-5998. However, I'm almost certain another tube model in the Tung-Sol family may serve you well in the future. You might even get lucky to purchase a pair from a current '2' owner and hopefully, someone you can trust.
   
  Cheers to your perseverance!


----------



## hodgjy

I know this is off topic, but what do people think about the Ultrasone Pro 2900s?  Random question, I know.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I know this is off topic, but what do people think about the Ultrasone Pro 2900s?  Random question, I know.....


 

 Well, since your Woo has to Output into something... seems _on topic_ to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I've yet to hear them, so...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Poor baby. No, not you Dubstep Girl. But, the one you just threw out with the bath water!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  thanks. 
   
  but as hodgjy said, they are being hunted to extinction, so chances are slim. plus, the tung sol did look nicer in my amp than the syl 7236.
   
  i bought them from these losers right here.. http://www.tejastubes.com/Poweroutputvacuumaudiotubes.htm
  they even raised the price now from 199 to 249, pathetic...


----------



## grokit

I've been meaning to list my Chatham 2399s, they have minimal use and I haven't had any problems with them. I have two pairs


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I've been meaning to list my Chatham 2399s, they have minimal use and I haven't had any problems with them. I have two pairs


 


  i would like to try them out, im super poor now though


----------



## hodgjy

Well, interestingly enough, while I troubleshoot my Woo's fickle little buzz, I'm considering getting a nice solid state amp.  My Woo was always my "go to" setup, and my Asgard was the nice change of pace setup.  Well, I want a "go to" solid state setup as well, and I'm thinking about pairing it with Ultrasones.  It's a flirtation at the moment.  Not sure if it will end up as a full out affair.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, since your Woo has to Output into something... seems _on topic_ to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks.
> 
> but as hodgjy said, they are being hunted to extinction, so chances are slim. plus, the tung sol did look nicer in my amp than the syl 7236.
> 
> ...


 


  Sadly, the small production run and shady dealers makes for a casino type atmosphere. Try sending Jack Wu a Tweet or use the online form on the website... "S.O.S!" And on that note, may you and all the other Woozies have a brilliant day! It is now time for sleep and silence.


----------



## ardilla

Hi all! Thanks for answering about my cracks and pops on the *TS 5998 tubes*. The loud crack/pops came through the headphones when warming up and then again after 30 minutes or so when I gave it a listen. I didn't wear the headphones all the time, so I do not know wether there were more cracking. The noise was very loud (throug the headphone drivers) Otherwise the tubes seem in good shape. 
   
  Could it be that during the FIRST warm up, som gas or something static electrisity was "released" and hence that this is a problem with many NOS tubes?? I normally wouldn't fire up the amp with headphones attatched when trying out new tubes, but this time I did.... If I hadn't I never (yet) would have heard this poppin/cracking noise. 
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> very loud cracks and pops are not normal, even for NOS 60 y.o. tubes. it's most likely arcing and should be tested with a tube tester
> before putting in your $1k+ amp. arcing is usually accompanied by bright flashes. i would send them back to the seller if possible.


 

 It's claimed to "test new" by the seller - so I assume he tested it.. Cannot see any bright flashes
    
  Quote:


hodgjy said:


> My 5998 makes pings while it warms up.  It eventually stops.  Then, it pings again as it cools down after turning it off.  I consider this completely normal because the metal and glass are expanding during warm up and constricting during cool down.
> 
> I've had my 5998 for 1.5 years now, and the ping has not gone away.  So, I just turn the amp on, wait 20-30 minutes for it to stop, and then listen.


 
   
  I also have the pings - but that was not what my issue was about... And do you really plan to listen 20-30 MINUTES IN ADVANCe???


----------



## hodgjy

With tubes, yes, I do have to plan a dedicated listening session.  That was my reason for also buying a solid state amp, but as I quickly found out, solid state amps also benefit from a warm up period.  But, at least they don't ping and crackle during warm up.  It sounds nice, just better after warm up.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> And do you really plan to listen 20-30 MINUTES IN ADVANCe???


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks.
> 
> but as hodgjy said, they are being hunted to extinction, so chances are slim. plus, the tung sol did look nicer in my amp than the syl 7236.
> 
> ...


 


 I find the tubes from these guys always over priced.


----------



## rosgr63

Look at their price of the B65.
  Best be sitting down just in case the shock is too much!


----------



## Draygonn

dubstep girl said:


> i bought them from these losers right here.. http://www.tejastubes.com/Poweroutputvacuumaudiotubes.htm
> they even raised the price now from 199 to 249, pathetic...



The ebay seller who sold me a bad 5998 is now selling them for 299 a pair. 

WAT


----------



## grokit

Quote:


musicman59 said:


> I find the tubes from these guys always over priced.


 

 Not only that but they seem to have a prohibitive return policy (only 10 days, 25% restocking fee, store credit only no refunds, and RMA required), and there's at least a couple of reports of questionable ethics out there if you look for them.


----------



## Silent One

*When shady sellers are brought into the light... and still look shady!*
   
  I consider myself a fair-minded cat. And understand that in business something is bound to go wrong at times. When it does, I try to give sellers an opportunity to make things right. But this isn't always possible. Some cats are so shady, they won't even give us the opportunity to give them that opportunity to make it right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I find the advisory that appears earlier this morning to be very useful to members... and thread specific!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Trust me, as an Alabama man myself, we have universally disowned that idiot for poisoning the trees.  We want to beat Auburn on the field, but we like each other as people.  After the horrible tornado really tore up Tuscaloosa, Auburn folks were the first people on the scene to help out.  We don't ever forget that.


 


  I heard Vulcan was really pissed off about those trees...


----------



## Draygonn

Ok, what happened?


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> wish i had better experience with TS 5998 thats so highly regarded around here.
> i spent 200 dollars on my tubes only to find out they where bad.
> this already will probably mean i'lll never buy a tung sol product ever again. and now im mad that ill never get to get how the ts 5998 actually are supposed to sound on the wa2.


 

 I bought a pair of TS 5998s (NOS) from ebay last summer; the seller was Langrex, located in the UK  (www.langrex.co.uk).  They arrived in perfect condition and I have them almost permanently mounted in my WA2.  (I also have Sylvania 7236s, among others, but don't use them much).  This pair of tubes wasn't cheap, but they were in mint condition, right down to the printing, and they sound fantastic.  At the time I thought the price was high (I paid $210 in US dollars, including shipping from Sussex to Michigan) but seeing what these are going for now, I wish I would have bought 2 pair.
   
  I've since seen this seller a couple of times on eBay, but I don't know what they have available.  If anyone is interested, they have an email contact address:  jamesatlangrex@aol.com


----------



## PanamaRed

I didn't realize the 5998's were fetching such a high price. I guess that's more incentive for me to keep them boxed up. I'm more of a GEC man myself. But in all honesty, my ears pick up such a subtle difference in power tubes that I can't see myself throwing down over $200 a pair in the near future at the detriment of buying more vinyl.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> I bought a pair of TS 5998s (NOS) from ebay last summer; the seller was Langrex, located in the UK  (www.langrex.co.uk).  They arrived in perfect condition and I have them almost permanently mounted in my WA2.  (I also have Sylvania 7236s, among others, but don't use them much).  This pair of tubes wasn't cheap, but they were in mint condition, right down to the printing, and they sound fantastic.  At the time I thought the price was high (I paid $210 in US dollars, including shipping from Sussex to Michigan) but seeing what these are going for now, I wish I would have bought 2 pair.
> 
> I've since seen this seller a couple of times on eBay, but I don't know what they have available.  If anyone is interested, they have an email contact address:  jamesatlangrex@aol.com


 

 ++1 on Langrex. I got two pairs of Mullard ECC32 from him. $$$, but condition and performance are excellent. Highly recommend James from Langrex.


----------



## musicman59

My experience with Langrex was not stellar. I bought a pair of Mullard ECC33 that end up being other brand and rebrabded Mullard but that was not disclosed. I sent them back and he gve me a full refund so I can complain much about it other that I owuld appreciate disclosing the rebranding upfront.


----------



## Clayton SF

Where does one learn how to identify rebranded tubes?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> I bought a pair of TS 5998s (NOS) from ebay last summer; the seller was Langrex, located in the UK  (www.langrex.co.uk).  They arrived in perfect condition and I have them almost permanently mounted in my WA2.  (I also have Sylvania 7236s, among others, but don't use them much).  This pair of tubes wasn't cheap, but they were in mint condition, right down to the printing, and they sound fantastic.  At the time I thought the price was high (I paid $210 in US dollars, including shipping from Sussex to Michigan) but seeing what these are going for now, I wish I would have bought 2 pair.
> 
> I've since seen this seller a couple of times on eBay, but I don't know what they have available.  If anyone is interested, they have an email contact address:  jamesatlangrex@aol.com


 
  Good seller in my experience.  My original pair of Sylvania Bad Boys came from him.  They were the real deal.  The really great thing about buying American made tubes from Europe is there is a better chance you are getting good production stock or field stock leftover on that continent.  The dark truth behind many of the tubes that are found in warehouses and such here is they are often B stock of sorts or production test rejects that were never disposed of and held as reserve stock.  The good stuff went out to get used.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Where does one learn how to identify rebranded tubes?


 


  I think the best way is to be familiar with the physical construction details that were unique to each manufacturer.  Sometimes, especially in Europe with the Philips family of companies, that isn't enough and you have to learn how to read their factory codes printed on the tube.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Good seller in my experience.  My original pair of Sylvania Bad Boys came from him.  They were the real deal.  *The really great thing about buying American made tubes from Europe is there is a better chance you are getting good production stock or field stock leftover on that continent.*  The dark truth behind many of the tubes that are found in warehouses and such here is they are often B stock of sorts or production test rejects that were never disposed of and held as reserve stock.  The good stuff went out to get used.


 

 Well, I have to agree. I got the best Tung-Sol 6SN7 bgrp from Greece. They were in U.S.N. boxes. Probably original supplies for US Navy which has been around the Med since WWII.


----------



## Rawrbington

6DE4
  6FY7
  6AS11
  6SN7
  6AL11
  6FY7
  6X5
  6HZ8
  6J5
   
  anybody heard of any of these tubes?


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I bought a pair of Mullard ECC33 that end up being other brand and rebrabded Mullard but that was not disclosed.


 

 What were they?


----------



## rosgr63

I too have a mixed experience with Langrex.
  I got some Brimar NOS that tested poor.
  When I complained he replaced them with similar but not the same type tubes.
   
  I have also used a Greek supplier and I got some expensive lemons.
  I did not have a tester then so I was buying on trust.
   
   I believe the best US made tubes were kept in the US for use, spare stock etc.
  I can't imagine the best tubes were ever sent overseas specially if we consider the military versions.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





oskari said:


> What were they?


 

 Tungsram 6SN7GT


----------



## PanamaRed

Any of you analog woo'ers use a turntable clamp? Just curious.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Any of you analog woo'ers use a turntable clamp? Just curious.


 

 Yes!


----------



## john57

I have used record clamps in the past that are light weight and clamps tightly on the turntable spindle plus a sticky rubber type of mat. It made quite a big difference in sound.


----------



## jerico

panamared said:


> Any of you analog woo'ers use a turntable clamp? Just curious.




Yep, I go with both a perimeter clamp and a center clamp. I don't have any seriously warped records, but hey... why not.


----------



## PanamaRed

Hehe. Thanks for all your responses fellas. I love this thread. Now, it's time to look for a clamp for a Rega P5. Don't suppose you gents have any suggestions


----------



## Eee Pee

PanamaRed, I suggest you read a bunch about Rega tables and record clamps.  Rega has a different design approach and/or philosophy than (for instance) jerico's VPI Classic player.
   
  You'd think Rega would include a record clamp with at the very least their flagship P9 table, but they don't.  $5k doesn't even get you a record clamp?  Maybe there's a reason?


----------



## john57

It takes a special clamp for the Regal P5 since the spindle is so short. There is a special Michell clamp just made for that turntable at  http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7308-michell-reflex-record-clamp-for-rega-turntables.aspx
   
  I have used the sorbogel mat which was very effective in helping to produce a cleaner sound that was very noticeable. The drawback was that the mat sticks to the record and you would have to peel the mat off the record. I never use felt mats and it causes more issues with me.


----------



## jerico

eee pee said:


> PanamaRed, I suggest you read a bunch about Rega tables and record clamps.  Rega has a different design approach and/or philosophy than (for instance) jerico's VPI Classic player.
> 
> You'd think Rega would include a record clamp with at the very least their flagship P9 table, but they don't.  $5k doesn't even get you a record clamp?  Maybe there's a reason?




Good point, Eee Pee. Something to consider.

As an aside, I have been running my deck into my Woo more often the last week or so - it is a seriously awesome experience. I thought the Woo sounded great with my DAC2 but it REALLY shines with vinyl. I picked up a copy of Keith Jarrett's Sun Bear concerts on (10LPs for $65 on eBay) and had been going through them one by one - astounding.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Tungsram 6SN7GT


 


  That is correct.


----------



## Silent One

EML 5U4G~
   
_Call your friends up... it's a Pot Luck! _






 Just got off the phone with danska - he's agreed to release the EML Glass to me. It's Friday Night and I'm feeling festive. But, how to explain the folks that are starting to gather outside the listening room's window, Twitter?


----------



## PanamaRed

Thanks for the advise fellas. I did some reading up tonight on using a clamp with the P5. At this point I think i'll opt out of using one due to cautionary tales by certain folks. Better to be safe than sorry I suppose. Well, thanks again and have a great night. Now to end the evening on a high note: "Dizzy Gillespie - The Giant" is on tap for the evening. Good night all


----------



## Silent One

Just noticed your new avatar. A couple of hours ago I enjoyed Donald Byrd - "Flight Time." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Good luck with your TT efforts!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Tungsram 6SN7GT


 

 Very odd (in place of ECC33).


----------



## jerico

An offhand observation here: last night, I switched out my W4S DAC2 for my Wavelength Brick (which usually does duties in my speaker rig). I prefer the W4S with the WA22 quite a lot (the Brick shines in the speaker rig, though the differences between it and the DAC2 are harder to notice in that setup).

Maybe because the W4S runs balanced into the Woo, whereas the Brick goes single ended? I bring this up, as I made a mention last weekend here that I thought single ended sources sounded great into the Woo (using my analog rig as evidence) - but in this case it seems that the balanced is better, all else equal.

Anyone here running a Wavelength DAC into a Woo? I'm curious what impressions such folk might have.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Agreed. My libraries in both Los Angeles County & Alameda County have a lot in store for me. Retrieved my Anoushka from same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Really interested in these results. My dedicated music computer is an iMac that I run windows off of to use J. River. This would be an interesting option
   
  Edit: Have you ever gone to the Glendale Brand Library Branch? They have a pretty good selection and you can take up to 20 CDs out at a time.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





jerico said:


> Good point, Eee Pee. Something to consider.


 


    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have a VPI HW-19 with a clamp (as shown in my avatar).  I'm curious how the Regas deal with warped records, because I consider the clamp pretty much essential for that reason alone.  I'm interested in the new RP6, just to try it.


  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Better to be safe than sorry I suppose.


 

 You can experiment with a heavy glass, like a big beer tumbler for instance.  Something with some weight to it.  Place it upside down on the record as centered as possible.  I used to do that before I got my VPI with a SOTA deck I had.


----------



## shipsupt

I don't have any experiences with the RP line, but these guys have a lot of solutions.  I'd recommend contacting them directly about your turntable to see what they recommend, or If they recommend anything.  Their products are geogeous, I have a clamp for my turntable and cleaning machine.
   
http://www.ttweights.com/whichclamp.html
  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> Hehe. Thanks for all your responses fellas. I love this thread. Now, it's time to look for a clamp for a Rega P5. Don't suppose you gents have any suggestions


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





oskari said:


> Very odd (in place of ECC33).


 


  Blackmore was the one who found out what they were, I was not sure of their origin.
  I just new they were not ECC33.
  Very odd indeed.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Blackmore was the one who found out what they were, I was not sure of their origin.
> I just new they were not ECC33.
> Very odd indeed.


 

 That is correct. I did not know and sold them to him. He discovered the type and let me know then I contacted Langrex and at the beginning they were still claiming they were Mullard produced for the American market but after challenging them more they finally accepted the real origin and allow us to return them for a refund.


----------



## PanamaRed

Very nice Shipsupt. Many thanks for the link.
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I don't have any experiences with the RP line, but these guys have a lot of solutions.  I'd recommend contacting them directly about your turntable to see what they recommend, or If they recommend anything.  Their products are geogeous, I have a clamp for my turntable and cleaning machine.
> 
> http://www.ttweights.com/whichclamp.html


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Really interested in these results. My dedicated music computer is an iMac that I run windows off of to use J. River. This would be an interesting option
> 
> Edit: Have you ever gone to the Glendale Brand Library Branch? They have a pretty good selection and you can take up to 20 CDs out at a time.


 


  It worked out well. The 64-bit Amarra iTunes Plug-in was only an issue with iTunes 10.4, as it was a 32-bit program. iTunes 10.5.3. is 64-bit, so no need to trash the preferences in Amarra or the 64-bit plug-in. The other work-a-round if you don't want to trash anything is to simply open up (through Finder) iTunes and check "Open up in 32-bit mode."
   
  In my opinion, as well as Amarra's opinion, is to run the program under Snow Leopard if you have the luxury. Lion is ok for audio but SL is better. I simply dual-boot my internal solid state drive for each kitty. My Woo has proven to be patient; enduring, but at some point it'd really rather these cats upstream had their act together. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Never ventured to Glendale's Library. Rarely go to Glendale save for NASD exams or something industry related. When speeding West from Pasadena I'll notice the city for a hot minute, perhaps. I'm more of an LA Basin (and surrounding areas) type. Often prefer University libraries. Do love Redondo Beach Main 'cause it's 2 blks from the beach. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The famed Jazz & Classical Flautist, Composer & Conductor James Newton use to Chair the UC Irvine Music Dept - granted me full access to the Media Center for research. So, whenever I feel like makin' it down... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Lastly, if I've no other media checked out,I can take 30 CD's. And since I've long volunteered my time and donated media as well, some branches let me take what I need. Returning somewhat on topic, are you using Boot Camp to achieve J. River? 
   
  Currently in-session with Billy Cobham - Spectrum (Remastered)
   
  Post Script.:  A bit sleepy; got the description for the two James' mixed up. Now corrected.


----------



## LostChild1

Hey owners,

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how to keep my WA6 dust-free? 

I keep it on my desktop, so there's nothing above it to cover it from falling dust, and it requires dusting about once a week.

Has anyone ever created a case for their WA6? (That obviously gets taken off during use) Or any other suggestions to keep it clean?

Thanks!


----------



## hodgjy

Some people have built plexiglass cases. 
   
  Personally, I think dust is dust, and it's a part of life.  I just wipe my amp off every week.  Of all the things to worry about in life, I choose to not worry about dust.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Some people have built plexiglass cases.
> 
> Personally, I think dust is dust, and it's a part of life.  I just wipe my amp off every week.  Of all the things to worry about in life, I choose to not worry about dust.


 


  haha I like this response... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  +1


----------



## jerico

A can of compressed air does wonders to get the dust off a Woo.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Some people have built plexiglass cases.
> 
> Personally, I think dust is dust, and it's a part of life.  I just wipe my amp off every week.  Of all the things to worry about in life, I choose to not worry about dust.


 


  while this tends to be my attitude for most things, i am a smoker and my concern is for nicotine/tar/smoke accumulating on the tubes themselves.  i can't imagine this is good for them.  i don't mind exposing them during listening sessions but would like to cover them up when not in use.  i'm thinking something soft along the lines of a toaster cover


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Lastly, if I've no other media checked out,I can take 30 CD's. And since I've long volunteered my time and donated media as well, some branches let me take what I need. Returning somewhat on topic, are you using Boot Camp to achieve J. River?


 


  Yes, I went back to using Boot Camp. For a hot minute I was running Parallels Desktop which worked fine. I just did not fully understand how Windows 7 was embedded in my Mac OSX operating system and if any emulation was being run which could possibly involve another running process between the files and my ears (if any of that rambling makes sense)


----------



## hodgjy

Tubes were designed to take somewhat of a beating.  I mean, if soldiers were supposed to rely on tubes in their radios during napalm raids, I'm sure they can handle a little smoke and tar.  Your lungs on the other hand.....
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> while this tends to be my attitude for most things, i am a smoker and my concern is for nicotine/tar/smoke accumulating on the tubes themselves.  i can't imagine this is good for them.  i don't mind exposing them during listening sessions but would like to cover them up when not in use.  i'm thinking something soft along the lines of a toaster cover


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tubes were designed to take somewhat of a beating.  I mean, if soldiers were supposed to rely on tubes in their radios during napalm raids, I'm sure they can handle a little smoke and tar.  Your lungs on the other hand.....


 

 good point.  but...  i think i saw/read somewhere that you shouldn't handle tubes with your bare hands as the oils from your fingers could "cook" when the tube is up to temp and potentially crack the glass.  wouldn't this also be the case for other oils such as tar?  or am i just being too paranoid?
   
  as to my lungs, well, there is wishful thinking and then there is the harsh reality of addiction.  someday soon!  but, hey, i've said that many times before


----------



## hodgjy

I have read this concern over finger prints and oils on tubes, and it is unfounded.  Would you expect soldiers to wear white cotton gloves every time they needed to change or re-seat tubes in their radios?  Plus, if you look at the Woo owner's manuals, they show someone seating tubes with bare fingers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
   
  Bottom line, no need to worry.  Tubes can take a pretty decent beating.  I'm not saying to go ahead and abuse them, but they need NOT be babied like some people do.  Do you wear gloves to change a light bulb?  Do you turn on a light bulb and then only turn it off after it's been running for a minimum of an hour?  Are you scared of smoke ruining a light bulb?
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> good point.  but...  i think i saw/read somewhere that you shouldn't handle tubes with your bare hands as the oils from your fingers could "cook" when the tube is up to temp and potentially crack the glass.  wouldn't this also be the case for other oils such as tar?  or am i just being too paranoid?
> 
> as to my lungs, well, there is wishful thinking and then there is the harsh reality of addiction.  someday soon!  but, hey, i've said that many times before


 


  Edit: the NOT above was kind of an important edit.


----------



## LostChild1

Thanks for the responses guys, I think then I'll just leave it as it, and just keep dusting it every week. Maybe I'mm look into the toaster cover, if I can find a decent one that isn't too gaudy. 

Hopefully I'll be able to get a sort of shelf setup happening soon, where I can at least have something over top of the WA6 to curb the amount of dust accumulating.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have read this concern over finger prints and oils on tubes, and it is unfounded.  Would you expect soldiers to wear white cotton gloves every time they needed to change or re-seat tubes in their radios?  Plus, if you look at the Woo owner's manuals, they show someone seating tubes with bare fingers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 logic: it's a wonderful thing!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  i must say i have gone through this exact thought process but reading about this stuff makes you question your own thoughts.  after all, a tube is a tad more expensive than a lightbulb, no?  in any case, thanks for allaying my unfounded fears and reassuring my own initial thoughts.


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, tubes are more expensive than light bulbs, and they even work in a completely different manner.  I was just trying to make a point that many of us (me included) baby somethings more than they need to be, especially considering we beat the crap out of some things that give us years of problem-free service.
   
  And another story for another time, but do we burn in our tvs?  Our cell phones?  I do agree that vacuum tubes and headphone diaphragms do need some burning in, but the extent of some things around here that are claimed to benefit from burn in makes me chuckle.  Do you need to burn in your fridge?  Your extension cords?  Your ceiling fan?
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> logic: it's a wonderful thing!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have read this concern over finger prints and oils on tubes, and it is unfounded.  Would you expect soldiers to wear white cotton gloves every time they needed to change or re-seat tubes in their radios?  Plus, if you look at the Woo owner's manuals, they show someone seating tubes with bare fingers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 x2
  I've always thought that as well. When I was growing up I had a tube radio alarm clock. I must have knocked that radio off my bedroom table about 100 times trying to turn the alarm off. The chassis was cracked but the tubes never broke. I have never replaced tubes in the radio. It was my father's clock and he gave it to me when I started high school so that may parents didn't have to wake me in the morning. The tubes were covered in dust and grit and survived the war and my high school years. He also owned a Motorola stereo console with many tubes and we never thought about how long it stayed on or off before we turned it on or off. It survived the Beatles, Doors, and even Led Zeppelin. I only changed one or two tubes in that console before it went to the Goodwill in the early 1970s. And it was still kicking.
   
  In fact I own several Woo amps and I turn them on and off within a hour, constantly. Sometimes it's only on for 5 minutes and sometimes 20 minutes right before I go to work and after I get out of the shower--the WA2 is used as a preamp connected to a Decware Taboo. And there's been times my WA22 has been on for 48 hours.
   
  And in the past 2.5 years since my first woo, I've only had 1 tube go bad, and it was defective and under warranty.


----------



## ardilla

1) A halogen lightbulb ( type G9) is supposed to be handled without skin contact, I've been told in several lamp shops. But they get sick hot, nothing like a tube.
   
  2) LOL
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> 1
> ....Do you wear gloves to change a light bulb?
> 
> 2
> .......Do you turn on a light bulb and then only turn it off after it's been running for a minimum of an hour?


----------



## hodgjy

Good post.  I've always tried my best to own my gear and use my gear, rather than letting my gear own me.  If I want to use my amp for 10 minutes, I'll use it for ten minutes.  If I want turn it on and off a few times during an evening, I will do so.  After all, it's just an object that can be repaired or replaced.  I take care of things the best I can to avoid excessive wear, but I don't let babying my gear dictate my life.
   
  Also, I noticed I left the word "NOT" omitted from an earlier post.  That was an important word!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2
> I've always thought that as well. When I was growing up I had a tube radio alarm clock. I must have knocked that radio off my bedroom table about 100 times trying to turn the alarm off. The chassis was cracked but the tubes never broke. I have never replaced tubes in the radio. It was my father's clock and he gave it to me when I started high school so that may parents didn't have to wake me in the morning. The tubes were covered in dust and grit and survived the war and my high school years. He also owned a Motorola stereo console with many tubes and we never thought about how long it stayed on or off before we turned it on or off. It survived the Beatles, Doors, and even Led Zeppelin. I only changed one or two tubes in that console before it went to the Goodwill in the early 1970s. And it was still kicking.
> 
> In fact I own several Woo amps and I turn them on and off within a hour, constantly. Sometimes it's only on for 5 minutes and sometimes 20 minutes right before I go to work and after I get out of the shower--the WA2 is used as a preamp connected to a Decware Taboo. And there's been times my WA22 has been on for 48 hours.
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Very true.  You got me on that one.  I use special mercury light bulbs in some of my microscopes, and those can never see fingerprints.  But, tubes can safely be manhandled and work fine for years.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> 1) A halogen lightbulb ( type G9) is supposed to be handled without skin contact, I've been told in several lamp shops. But they get sick hot, nothing like a tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Very true.  You got me on that one.  I use special mercury light bulbs in some of my microscopes, and those can never see fingerprints.  But, tubes can safely be manhandled and work fine for years.


 

_*Excerpts from*_ Halogen Lamp Safety:
   
_*The primary danger associated with halogen lamps is the bulb's high temperature. For example, a 300 watt halogen light bulb can reach temperatures of up to 970 degrees F, generating enough heat to ignite a paper airplane in just 56 seconds. In comparison, a standard 75 watt light bulb only operates at about 260 degrees F.*_
   
_*Avoid touching a halogen light bulb with your bare fingers. Even if your hands look clean, the natural oils on your skin can cause "hot spots" on the bulb that may lead to premature bulb failure and an increased fire risk.*_
   
  I don't think we can worry about vacuum tubes igniting paper airplanes. They don't get as hot as halogen bulbs. In fact some of my tubes have paper _Import Stamps_ affixed to the tube and they have never caught fire.


----------



## Zombie_X

Here's a short video I did on the WA3+, probably not that informative but still WOO related..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol nice. i wish i could have a red WA2 or a red WA6-SE...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2
> I've always thought that as well. When I was growing up I had a tube radio alarm clock. I must have knocked that radio off my bedroom table about 100 times trying to turn the alarm off. The chassis was cracked but the tubes never broke. I have never replaced tubes in the radio. It was my father's clock and he gave it to me when I started high school so that may parents didn't have to wake me in the morning. The tubes were covered in dust and grit and survived the war and my high school years. He also owned a Motorola stereo console with many tubes and we never thought about how long it stayed on or off before we turned it on or off. It survived the Beatles, Doors, and even Led Zeppelin. I only changed one or two tubes in that console before it went to the Goodwill in the early 1970s. And it was still kicking.
> 
> In fact I own several Woo amps and I turn them on and off within a hour, constantly. Sometimes it's only on for 5 minutes and sometimes 20 minutes right before I go to work and after I get out of the shower--the WA2 is used as a preamp connected to a Decware Taboo. And there's been times my WA22 has been on for 48 hours.
> ...


 

 This is so true. What's different today, however, is the scarcity of audiophile worthy tubes. They can, should and do survive being mishandled... or manhandled if you prefer. Some simply want peace of mind 'cause some of these tubes ain't coming back.
   
  Of the best practices I employ inside my listening room, none of them are necessary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A waste of time? Hardly. For me, it is completely ceremonial. When luxuriating, ceremony can heighten one's experience. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Take tea, for example...


----------



## LostChild1

zombie_x said:


> Here's a short video I did on the WA3+, probably not that informative but still WOO related..




So what was rolling around inside?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Of the best practices I employ inside my listening room, none of them are necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol nice. i wish i could have a red WA2 or a red WA6-SE...


 

 I often wondered what a Copper, Silver & Brass Woo would look like. What's more, I wonder if Jack Wu would sell the cases upon request? I'd be interested in rolling a second or third look every once in awhile.


----------



## Zombie_X

It turned out to be part of a tube, the guiding post in the bottom to be exact. I don't know where it came from though as none of my tubes are missing that. Most likely the previous owner had busted one off, but it's odd because this is the first time I've heard it.
   
  Dubstep Girl, It's sad that Woo doesn't make different color cases any more. The red versions are much rarer from what I've heard. 
   
  Right now I am driving a pair of K400 via the WA3+ and it sounds so nice!
  
  Quote: 





lostchild1 said:


> So what was rolling around inside?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah, would of been nice if they still offered it. jack could even make more money if he offered a custom color as an upgrade option (100 bucks for it or something?)


----------



## Zombie_X

Yes I agree, he would make more money. I don't remember how much it used to cost but I think it was $50 extra for it.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah, would of been nice if they still offered it. jack could even make more money if he offered a custom color as an upgrade option (100 bucks for it or something?)


----------



## Silent One

Cladding--
   
  What's unknown is the costs and availability from the supplier; impact from non-moving inventory Woo Audio has to maintain. While it may or may not be cost effective for Woo Audio, here's what I know for sure - *Black Woo's Rule!*
   
  (Silent One ducks in case of food fight...)




* *


----------



## WindyCityCy

Ya Black Woos RULE!!!!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Cladding--
> 
> What's unknown is the costs and availability from the supplier; impact from non-moving inventory Woo Audio has to maintain. While it may or may not be cost effective for Woo Audio, here's what I know for sure - *Black Woo's Rule!*
> 
> ...


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Black Woo's Rule!*
> 
> (Silent One ducks in case of food fight...)


 


  Speaking of food, every picture I've seen of a black Woo shows grimy, oily fingerprints all over. You can almost smell the buttered popcorn topping and pepperoni through the browser. SilentOne-san, comments?
   
  This doesn't apply to the freshly deboxed ones. It would appear that Jack eats his Cinema Lover's in a separate facility.
   
  I'm torn, I really am. The black Woos are sexy as hell, but the silver always seem cleaner. On the other hand, the black would provide a richer background for lovely glowing Sophia. If Jack went ahead and introduced colors this already overly-dramatic, color-picking torture would expand exponentially. The mind reels.
   
  I must retreat to a hot tub and contemplate it all.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Black Woo's Rule!*  (Silent One ducks in case of food fight...)
> 
> 
> 
> * *


 

 Since all of my Woos are Silver. I shall sit quietly and admire my silver lining.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





thrak said:


> good point.  but...  i think i saw/read somewhere that you shouldn't handle tubes with your bare hands as the oils from your fingers could "cook" when the tube is up to temp and potentially crack the glass.  wouldn't this also be the case for other oils such as tar?  or am i just being too paranoid?
> 
> as to my lungs, well, there is wishful thinking and then there is the harsh reality of addiction.  someday soon!  but, hey, i've said that many times before


 


  I think it is easy to be overly cautious when we first enter the tube world.  I believed all of this and more when I started out, using rubber gloves while handling my tubes.  But the more you really think about it and the more you apply basic common sense the more silly it all seems.  Heck, if I see lots of dust on the top of a tube when taking one out I'll just wipe it across my shirt briefly before putting it back in the box.  My cleaning procedure for pins on a tube I just bought has become quite wham bam these days too, I'm not all that gentle with them because I no longer have the patience.  I've yet to harm any of them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I think it is easy to be overly cautious when we first enter the tube world.  I believed all of this and more when I started out, using rubber gloves while handling my tubes.  But the more you really think about it and the more you apply basic common sense the more silly it all seems.  Heck, if I see lots of dust on the top of a tube when taking one out I'll just wipe it across my shirt briefly before putting it back in the box.  My cleaning procedure for pins on a tube I just bought has become quite wham bam these days too, I'm not all that gentle with them because I no longer have the patience.  I've yet to harm any of them.


----------



## Zombie_X

Man guys I've been using my K501 and K400 on the WA3+ and it sounds mighty darned good! These old AKG's are quite something. I would say they are still on par with today's headphones. They really sound ahead of their time when you take their age into account.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Since all of my Woos are Silver. I shall sit quietly and admire my silver lining.


 

 Beautifully stated, Clayton. And for the record, your Silver Collection is magnificent! As well as other Woo's clad in Silver. What I try to express is that they each will strike a different part of one's emotions, prompting a different reaction. I often hear people deciding (or decided) based on dust maintenance - I'm so happy for them! Me?_ It's about color & contour dust be damned._
   
  Emotionally, I find the Silver Woo's to be striking; caressing. And the absence of color* (Black) *with the power and strength to stir; move me emotionally.


----------



## Silent One

Odometer-
   





 A few days ago, my _WA 6 Special Edition_ turned over 2,500 hours on the ODO.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Ya Black Woos RULE!!!!


 

 Periodically, if I look hard enough from the East Bay, I can see your Woo stack sending up signals on a Friday night...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Speaking of food, every picture I've seen of a black Woo shows grimy, oily fingerprints all over. You can almost smell the buttered popcorn topping and pepperoni through the browser. SilentOne-san, comments?
> 
> This doesn't apply to the freshly deboxed ones. It would appear that Jack eats his Cinema Lover's in a separate facility.
> 
> ...


 

 This means you overlooked my own pix of my _Black_ _Special Edition_ - no prints. We don't do (eat) popcorn or meat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only green tea, cold milk and gourmet ice-cream gets inside the listening room on different nights.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Good post.  I've always tried my best to own my gear and use my gear, rather than letting my gear own me.  If I want to use my amp for 10 minutes, I'll use it for ten minutes.  If I want turn it on and off a few times during an evening, I will do so.  After all, it's just an object that can be repaired or replaced.  I take care of things the best I can to avoid excessive wear, but I don't let babying my gear dictate my life.
> 
> Also, I noticed I left the word "NOT" omitted from an earlier post.  That was an important word!


 

 Yes I would agree with you with what you are using for your amp (no disrespect intended), but when you get into the higher end Woo tube amps and using rare nos tubes then that is a different ball game. If you want your higher end Woo amp and tubes to last you must take precautions.


----------



## Silent One

A friendly nod-
   
  I believe you meant "precautions." But, this is easy to do since we're in and out of music sessions.


----------



## sillysally

Not really, misspelling is my true sig.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Speaking of food, every picture I've seen of a black Woo shows grimy, oily fingerprints all over. You can almost smell the buttered popcorn topping and pepperoni through the browser. SilentOne-san, comments?
> 
> This doesn't apply to the freshly deboxed ones. It would appear that Jack eats his Cinema Lover's in a separate facility.
> 
> ...


 


  You can get a Woo 5 LE in red they said after I asked. Any color they offer can be ordered. There is a fee for the upgrade. I have both a Woo in black and a Woo in silver. What about a Woo 5 in gold!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Here's a short video I did on the WA3+, probably not that informative but still WOO related..


 

 I applaud your effort. Your WA3+ video is of value to those familiar with Woo Audio but never really looked at the '3.' And especially to those unregistered guests that visit the thread trying to make heads/tails of Woo Audio amps; vacuum tube amps, in general. Many stumble upon these pages from links and web searches, having never visited Head-Fi before. So, it's good to see videos supplement posts in this space.
   
  Quick question about your transformer: Did you replace it yourself, have it done or was it done by the previous owner?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> You can get a Woo 5 LE in red they said after I asked. Any color they offer can be ordered. There is a fee for the upgrade. I have both a Woo in black and a Woo in silver. What about a Woo 5 in gold!


 

 Showcase-
   
  I've always been interested in seeing Woo Audio's showcase of custom amps. They have done and still do wicked builds. Wouldn't it be great if we could peruse this private online portfolio of client builds? May send Jack Wu a Tweet overnight... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ok, in the morning!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Odometer-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Holey moley.  Didn't you buy your amp after I did?  I'd be surprised if I had 1/5 of that time on mine.  If any of us have ever wondered if capacitors wear out I think sooner or later you'll be the one to be able to tell us.


----------



## sunmonkey

silent one said:


> This means you overlooked my own pix of my _Black_ _Special Edition_ - no prints. We don't do (eat) popcorn or meat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I only pick movie butter popcorn and pepperoni because they are the greasiest foods I could come up with off the top of my head. I mentioned you by name because I had an inkling you wouldn't touch either, much less saunter into your listening room with 'em. And, you have a sense of humor. The running dialog I have in my nogging occasionally fails to translate to the written page. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Good move on no meat. My first 18 months here in Malaysia I was 98% vegetarian and I hope to get back to it. No popcorn? Why, I guess it takes all kinds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> You can get a Woo 5 LE in red they said after I asked. Any color they offer can be ordered. There is a fee for the upgrade. I have both a Woo in black and a Woo in silver. What about a Woo 5 in gold!


 

 Any color they offer? Whoa. Does anyone know what colors are to be had?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Holey moley.  Didn't you buy your amp after I did?  I'd be surprised if I had 1/5 of that time on mine.  If any of us have ever wondered if capacitors wear out I think sooner or later you'll be the one to be able to tell us.


 

 That's a really low total from a 9 July, 2010 start. I tend to listen only 2-3 times a week if I'm fortunate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't forget my legendary and extended warm up times. A vacuum tube amp @ 2,500 hrs? Things are just gettin' good!


----------



## Zombie_X

I had m friend Jacob do all the work on the unit. The transformer is about the same size as the stock one but is heavier. One thing is for sure that the unit is now more powerful. I also had him lower the gain of the amp because it got too loud too fast.
   
  I still have all the stock parts here that he took out and the unit will be reverted back to stock form when it is time I decide to sell it.
   
  Also...
   

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I applaud your effort. Your WA3+ video is of value to those familiar with Woo Audio but never really looked at the '3.' And especially to those unregistered guests that visit the thread trying to make heads/tails of Woo Audio amps; vacuum tube amps, in general. Many stumble upon these pages from links and web searches, having never visited Head-Fi before. So, it's good to see videos supplement posts in this space.
> 
> Quick question about your transformer: Did you replace it yourself, have it done or was it done by the previous owner?


----------



## WindyCityCy

Zombie -
   
  Still enjoying your work on my D7000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I had m friend Jacob do all the work on the unit. The transformer is about the same size as the stock one but is heavier. One thing is for sure that the unit is now more powerful. I also had him lower the gain of the amp because it got too loud too fast.
> 
> I still have all the stock parts here that he took out and the unit will be reverted back to stock form when it is time I decide to sell it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> I only pick movie butter popcorn and pepperoni because they are the greasiest foods I could come up with off the top of my head. I mentioned you by name because I had an inkling you wouldn't touch either, much less saunter into your listening room with 'em. And, you have a sense of humor. The running dialog I have in my nogging occasionally fails to translate to the written page.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I may successfully revisit some forbidden fruits from times past, someday. I just know (I can f-e-e-l it!) there's some Wild Woo's out there that simply have yet to be captured or indexed by search engines (customers being reserved). But I'd love to see some!


----------



## Zombie_X

Glad to hear my work is appreciated 
   
  I trust everything is going well with the D7000 and cable?
  
  Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Zombie -
> 
> Still enjoying your work on my D7000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Yes.  The cable you added is top notch.  Much lighter than the original and no coiling issues.  The ZX-D7000 knows how to bring it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Glad to hear my work is appreciated
> 
> I trust everything is going well with the D7000 and cable?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Yes.  The cable you added is top notch.  Much lighter than the original and no coiling issues.  The ZX-D7000 knows how to bring it


 







 Very exciting to hear from a fellow W4S-WA-D7000 owner.


----------



## WindyCityCy

It's a great collaboration of fine pieces ... Going to sign off for the night and fall asleep to the ZX-D7000 ... just gotta choose between zep, dave, or grabriel ... leaning towards zep 3 tonight.  can't go wrong ....
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Very exciting to hear from a fellow W4S-WA-D7000 owner.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Decided it's gonna be a zep night.  D7000 on their way to a chamber session.  Night guys


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Decided it's gonna be a zep night.  D7000 on their way to a chamber session.  Night guys


 






 Bon voyage, mate! Currently in-session with Sly & The Family Stone - "Life."


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> I only pick movie butter popcorn and pepperoni because they are the greasiest foods I could come up with off the top of my head. I mentioned you by name because I had an inkling you wouldn't touch either, much less saunter into your listening room with 'em. And, you have a sense of humor. The running dialog I have in my nogging occasionally fails to translate to the written page.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
   
  The Woo 3 at one point was made in gold, red, black, or silver. There may still be a photo of them at the Woo site. There may have been more colors but I don't remember. If you get close just e-mail Jack and he can let you know about the cost and if it is possible.


----------



## archigius

Hi, for those interested to 6GL7 with the Woo Audio 6SE, the tubes i ordered from Jack arrived few hours ago.
   
  My first impression is that these tubes are very similar to the 6DN7, maybe slighly smoother on top, but i'm not that sure about this.
   
  Also gain/volume is about the same.
   
  Overall i'm very satisfied.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Blue too!


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


>


 

 That is an embarrassment of riches. Thanks for sharing, Mr. Moose.
   
  I hate to say this, but I think black wins. It has the most ... presence. Up till this point, I was a silver laddie, but no more.


----------



## hodgjy

None taken.  That's the beauty of this hobby.  Everyone has different approaches towards happiness. 
  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I would agree with you with what you are using for your amp *(no disrespect intended)*, but when you get into the higher end Woo tube amps and using rare nos tubes then that is a different ball game. If you want your higher end Woo amp and tubes to last you must take precautions.


----------



## kchew

Black is definitely a dust magnet colour, but I wouldn't have my WA22 any other way. It matches my CDP and computer rig as well.
   
  To side track a bit, has anyone tried the ECC33 in their amps? It's supposed to be closer to 6SN7 spec than the ECC32, but the ECC33 does not show up on the Woo tube compatibility chart...


----------



## Clayton SF

I usually get my amps in various colors. All my Woos are silver but some of my amps are black, some are brown, and some metallic blue. I get a kick on color variations.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I usually get my amps in various colors. All my Woos are silver but some of my amps are black, some are brown, and some metallic blue. I get a kick on color variations.


 

 i always love seeing pictures of your setup, clayton.  it never gets old and is quite the drool fest 
   
  btw, what is the doohicky all the way on the left?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thrak said:


> i always love seeing pictures of your setup, clayton.  it never gets old and is quite the drool fest
> btw, what is the doohicky all the way on the left?


 

 Thanks for the kinds words.
  That doohicky is a tube tester. One of 4 that I own.
   
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/63411075@N00/


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Blue too!


 


  wow pretty


----------



## ardilla

That's what I'd call a tube parade..... 
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/63411075@N00/


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I usually get my amps in various colors. All my Woos are silver but some of my amps are black, some are brown, and some metallic blue. I get a kick on color variations.


 






 One need not own the very things that brings one happiness. That's the beauty of Art... and Clayton's collection.


----------



## Silent One

Tea for Two-
   
  The importance of choosing color for Woo Audio amps could be lost on some. But I'd caution it is more important than they would know. This will soon be discovered upon unboxing. If someone were to ask me over tea which color they should get, I wouldn't let my personal bias get in the way. I'd likely be asked what color I have... "Black."
   
  But professionally, I would tell them an object's contour will dictate what looks best. Followed by its placement. In this case, the listening room. And then Silent One's silence would begin *here. *Allowing the person to make up there own mind.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tea for Two-
> 
> The importance of choosing color for Woo Audio amps could be lost on some. But I'd caution it is more important than they would know. This will soon be discovered upon unboxing. If someone were to ask me over tea which color they should get, I wouldn't let my personal bias get in the way. I'd likely be asked what color I have... "Black."
> 
> But professionally, I would tell them an object's contour will dictate what looks best. Followed by its placement. In this case, the listening room. And then Silent One's silence would begin *here. *Allowing the person to make up there own mind.


 
  And here's the conundrum for me at least. I've purchased amps that come in only one color and that's when I abandoned the all black or all silver scheme. I actually like looking at the volume and selector knobs and find that I just can't easily see what position the knobs are in when they are blackl At least when I am sitting in the area where my couch use to be.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Hi, for those interested to 6GL7 with the Woo Audio 6SE, the tubes i ordered from Jack arrived few hours ago.
> 
> My first impression is that these tubes are very similar to the 6DN7, maybe slighly smoother on top, but i'm not that sure about this.
> 
> ...


 

 I'd be interested in your view toward 100 hours, just in case there's more to come.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And here's the conundrum for me at least. I've purchased amps that come in only one color and that's when I abandoned the all black or all silver scheme. I actually like looking at the volume and selector knobs and find that I just can't easily see what position the knobs are in when they are blackl At least when I am sitting in the area where my couch use to be.


 

 Couchless in the City-
   
  Sitting inside your listening room was quite the experience. Very satisfying but not as easy as it looks. I found myself thoroughly enjoying the smooth, lighter than air vocals of Astrud Gilberto singing "Non-Stop to Brazil" on one setup. While peering around the room looking at your other amps not yet demoed - the kid in the candy store effect!


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Hi, for those interested to 6GL7 with the Woo Audio 6SE, the tubes i ordered from Jack arrived few hours ago.
> 
> My first impression is that these tubes are very similar to the 6DN7, maybe slighly smoother on top, but i'm not that sure about this.
> 
> ...


 


  i am just getting around to trying mine on my 6SE (as i type, actually) and i have to concur 100%.  there is something different however.  can't quite place my finger on it just yet (its only been a few hours).  do they seem blacker/quieter overall to you than the 6DN7s?


----------



## thrak

definitely a blacker background with perhaps a tiny bit more detail in the mids (noticed mostly on electric guitars).  hard to say at this point still.  the sound is very close to a V200, which is a bit of a shame as i have a V200 sitting right next to the woo 0.o  lets see if/how it evolves...
   
  NOTE: all listening so far is AudirvanaPlus > W4S DAC2 > 6SE > T1


----------



## WarriorAnt

clayton sf said:


> x2
> I've always thought that as well. When I was growing up I had a tube radio alarm clock. I must have knocked that radio off my bedroom table about 100 times trying to turn the alarm off. The chassis was cracked but the tubes never broke. I have never replaced tubes in the radio. It was my father's clock and he gave it to me when I started high school so that may parents didn't have to wake me in the morning. The tubes were covered in dust and grit and survived the war and my high school years. He also owned a Motorola stereo console with many tubes and we never thought about how long it stayed on or off before we turned it on or off. It survived the Beatles, Doors, and even Led Zeppelin. I only changed one or two tubes in that console before it went to the Goodwill in the early 1970s. And it was still kicking.


 

 I bet you wish you still had that console now!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I bet you wish you still had that console now!


 


 Get this: it had a dial on it labeled _*Vibrasonic*_. When you turned it all the way up, it made everything echo-y. It sounded like it was in an echo chamber. Their way of making it sound like a concert hall. And when I'd hit the console with my fist (oh gawd did my father hate that) the whole console sounded exactly like two Jedi Knight light sabres clashing together--that LOUD electronic BANG BANG ECHO ECHO. I loved that. Sgt. Pepper's sounded so weird with the vibrasonic turned up!


----------



## Rawrbington

i have to say this and i hope he doesn't mind, but ZombieX is awesome.
  i purchased a pair of amprex 6DJ8 bugle boys from him, for an increidble price.  and then he messages me and says he's throwing in a matched pair of philips 6922 nos because it took him a few days to ship.  But he told me upfront it was gonna take a few days.  anyways, a great headfi member and im really really thankful.  the boys sound fantastic.  interestingly enough they seem to sound a little different than the bugle boys i already had.  it could just be placebo.  time will tell.
   
  but anyways, big time props and thanks to ZombieX.  people like that are what makes headfi special
   
  and incase nobody has ever mentioned it,  the amprex 6DJ8 / TS5998 combo in the WA2 is very smooth and musical


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Silent One

Woo Audio Amps-
   
  How many hours do you have on your amp?


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> Woo Audio Amps-
> 
> How many hours do you have on your amp?




 Mine didn't come with an odometer. Do you use a stopwatch?


----------



## Zombie_X

It's no problem dude. I try to help out  Glad you like your tubes a lot. 
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i have to say this and i hope he doesn't mind, but ZombieX is awesome.
> i purchased a pair of amprex 6DJ8 bugle boys from him, for an increidble price.  and then he messages me and says he's throwing in a matched pair of philips 6922 nos because it took him a few days to ship.  But he told me upfront it was gonna take a few days.  anyways, a great headfi member and im really really thankful.  the boys sound fantastic.  interestingly enough they seem to sound a little different than the bugle boys i already had.  it could just be placebo.  time will tell.
> 
> but anyways, big time props and thanks to ZombieX.  people like that are what makes headfi special
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Do you use a stopwatch?


 






 Better! I use a log. I do understand that notes, observations and revisiting one's experiences inside the listening room isn't for everyone. Simply, I am curious.


----------



## Rawrbington

lol i've been wondering how you guys have any idea how many hours are on your woos.  i've only had this 2 since november and i have no idea.  suffice to say i use it a lot


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> lol i've been wondering how you guys have any idea how many hours are on your woos.  i've only had this 2 since november and i have no idea.  suffice to say i use it a lot


 


  It's a multi-skinned cat, really. Just depends on one's needs. Some folks don't care to be analytical... just wanna hear some music. Journaling can blow your audio experiences wide open for greater understanding.


----------



## jc9394

Finally super glued myself again after another disappointment by my love, this times kills me more than the last.  Luckily, there is always my lovely WA22 on my side to comfort me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Finally super glued myself again after another disappointment by my love, this times kills me more than the last.  Luckily, there is always my lovely WA22 on my side to comfort me.


 

 You've been missed. Your presence on Head-Fi guided me in the early days I read up on posts, but was not yet a member. Hope all is well at this writing. And that no gear was harmed during your absence.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You've been missed. Your presence on Head-Fi guided me in the early days I read up on posts, but was not yet a member. Hope all is well at this writing. And that no gear was harmed during your absence.


 


   
  All my gears are perfectly fine except missed me a bit due to work and the playoff games.  I can't believe history repeat in front of my eyes again.  This lost kills me much more than last time.  I don't hate the Giants, they are a great team and very deserve to win but...


----------



## Zombie_X

I see, but you weren't one of those rioters I saw on TV were you? 
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All my gears are perfectly fine except missed me a bit due to work and the playoff games.  I can't believe history repeat in front of my eyes again.  This lost kills me much more than last time.  I don't hate the Giants, they are a great team and very deserve to win but...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> I see, but you weren't one of those rioters I saw on TV were you?


 


   
  No, not that stupid.  Have family to take care of.


----------



## Silent One

Leave it to Woo Audio to provide restoration of the soul.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The WA22 really cannot be used with the single ended input it is a push pull amp with no phase inverter. when using the single ended input they feed just one side of the
> push pull amps putting out a distorted output. I don't know why they even put a SE input on that amp. I found this out when I worked on a WA22 and was going to spec it
> I fed the signal generator into the SE input and all I got out was a distorted output. Had to use a signal generator with a second phase shifted output to supply a balanced
> input to spec the amp.
> The output really don't matter if you use a balanced or SE headphone one side of the signal is tied to ground anyway so the output is the same ether way.


 

 That pretty much confirms my listening impressions when I had a loaner WA22 for 2 weeks - fantastic sound with balanced input, average sound with single ended input.  With a balanced input I could switch between the XLR and TRS outputs and not hear a huge difference.  
   
  However, when listening to a balanced headphone if I'd insert a 1/4" cable into the other jack on the WA22 then the sound in the balanced headphone had it's soundstage collapse a little bit (it became smaller than the 1/4" out of my ZDT amp).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> That pretty much confirms my listening impressions when I had a loaner WA22 for 2 weeks - fantastic sound with balanced input, average sound with single ended input.  With a balanced input I could switch between the XLR and TRS outputs and not hear a huge difference.
> 
> However, when listening to a balanced headphone if I'd insert a 1/4" cable into the other jack on the WA22 then the sound in the balanced headphone had it's soundstage collapse a little bit (it became smaller than the 1/4" out of my ZDT amp).


 


  This is true and stated in the Woo Audio Manual. That if plugging in 2 or more headphones, the sound quality may be degraded. Not sure how many conductors are on the TRS for the '22' but if it's three then the jack is balanced; if two then.... Glenn, how many? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I forget.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is true and stated in the Woo Audio Manual. That if plugging in 2 or more headphones, the sound quality may be degraded. Not sure how many conductors are on the TRS for the '22' but if it's three then the jack is balanced; if two then.... Glenn, how many?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Interestingly, the cable did NOT have to have a headphone attached - just the plug seemed to make the soundstage collapse.


----------



## Silent One

Curious, I'd love to be able to run through my music libraries with a balanced source and WA22 for two weeks.


----------



## archigius

Hi, today i received my 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapters from Glenn (*2359glenn) *and i've to say that the result is very good, more than i was expecting.
   
  I was exptecting some volume loss, but, al least with the Tesla T1, the volume is about the same than the 6GL7 and 6DN7.
   
  I'm now using some cheap 6H8C (russian equivalent of 6SN7) NOS russian tubes and actually these sound very good! At least as good as the 6DN7 and 6GL7, that i like more than stock 6DE7 and 6EW7.
   
  Maybe this infos can be useful for those who want to try the 6 SE/6SN7/Tesla T1 combo.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Hi, today i received my 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapters from Glenn (*2359glenn) *and i've to say that the result is very good, more than i was expecting.
> 
> I was exptecting some volume loss, but, al least with the Tesla T1, the volume is about the same than the 6GL7 and 6DN7.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  how much are the adaptors. i think i want to save up and try out silentone's legendary EML 6U4G + tung sol bgrp 6sn7gt combo. (he only had it for a day or 2. but said the combo was really good and way better than all the other wa6-se combos)


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how much are the adaptors


 
   39 US dollars+shipping
   
  I'm doing some burn-in now, because the adapters contain a capacitor, but the sound is really good.
  It's a valid alternative to the 6DN7/6GL7/6EM7, which are harder to find. The sound is very similar.
   
  I really was expecting  that with 6SN7+adapters i needed to crank up the volume, but the needed volume is about the same, i can't explain why.
   
  I was listening around 9 o' clock with the 6DN7 and 6GL7, while with the 6DE7 the same volume is around 10-10:30.
   
  The sound is very smooth, actually i like it very much.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how much are the adaptors. i think i want to save up and try out silent one's legendary EML 5U4G + tung sol bgrp 6sn7gt combo. (he only had it for a day or 2. but said the combo was really good and way better than all the other wa6-se combos)


 

 Good morning, Dubstep Girl. I too, would like to evaluate the EML 5U4G + Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231/6SN7GT combo further. However, once I swapped my Wireworld Silver Starlight 6 Coax @ 1.0 Meter for 1.5 Meters, the TS-BGRP + USAF-596 combo made up significant ground. 
   
  It will be interesting to see if the Coax improvement simply brings the performance of the two rectifiers to the same plateau. Or, if a rising tide lifts all rectifiers, leaving the TS-BGRP/USAF-596 combo out in front. Time will tell, as danska agreed in principle to sell the EML Glass back to me this past weekend.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> 39 US dollars+shipping
> 
> I'm doing some burn-in now, because the adapters contain a capacitor, but the sound is really good.
> It's a valid alternative to the 6DN7/6GL7/6EM7, which are harder to find. The sound is very similar.
> ...


 

 This is very exciting to hear. Your options have now expanded greatly.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good morning, Dubstep Girl. I too, would like to evaluate the EML 5U4G + Tung - Sol BGRP VT-231/6SN7GT combo further. However, once I swapped my Wireworld Silver Starlight 6 Coax @ 1.0 Meter for 1.5 Meters, the TS-BGRP + USAF-596 combo made up significant ground.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the Coax improvement simply brings the performance of the two rectifiers to the same plateau. Or, if a rising tide lifts all rectifiers, leaving the TS-BGRP/USAF-596 combo out in front. Time will tell, as danska agreed in principle to sell the EML Glass back to me this past weekend.


 


  Just wait til you try that combo on a WA22...


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 


  +1


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good morning, Dubstep Girl. I too, would like to evaluate the EML 5U4G + Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231/6SN7GT combo further. However, once I swapped my Wireworld Silver Starlight 6 Coax @ 1.0 Meter for 1.5 Meters, the TS-BGRP + USAF-596 combo made up significant ground.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the Coax improvement simply brings the performance of the two rectifiers to the same plateau. Or, if a rising tide lifts all rectifiers, leaving the TS-BGRP/USAF-596 combo out in front. Time will tell, as danska agreed in principle to sell the EML Glass back to me this past weekend.


 

 raising the B+ voltage up to 300+ v, from wooaudio's conservative 200+ v, will allow most 5v heater rectifiers to sound 99.9% of each other... but it will also upset tuberollers.


----------



## Silent One

Good point. Sometimes in this hobby, merely getting the cake takes great effort. Eating the cake becomes another effort entirely!


----------



## hodgjy

Very well said.  On a related note, I enjoy collecting different gear as much as the hearing the sounds they produce.  I like having my cake and eating it, too.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good point. Sometimes in this hobby, merely getting the cake takes great effort. Eating the cake becomes another effort entirely!


----------



## Clayton SF

The pursuit of happiness.
   
  And then some.
   
  I love the power switch located on the top left of the units.


----------



## Silent One

Very nice indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It also comes in the requisite Silver...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Very well said.  On a related note, I enjoy collecting different gear as much as the hearing the sounds they produce.  I like having my cake and eating it, too.


 


  With some hobbyists, I have observed the gear being more important than the music. And some music lovers treating gear as an afterthought. For those of us lucky enough to appreciate both, the combo can prove to be downright intoxicating... and we love it!!!


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The pursuit of happiness.
> 
> And then some.
> 
> I love the power switch located on the top left of the units.


 

 interesting... how does that work when you stack them?  i guess the DAC is meant to be 'always on'?


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  +1
   
  aint it great when you can combine fetishes?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





takezo said:


> raising the B+ voltage up to 300+ v, from wooaudio's conservative 200+ v, will allow most 5v heater rectifiers to sound 99.9% of each other... but it will also upset tuberollers.


 


  I can definitely understand where you are coming from with this, but with different rectifiers types having varying degrees of voltage drop under load, using any rectifier other than the one designed for the circuit will always result in a slightly higher or lower B+ to the tubes which is going to be audible, wouldn't you agree?  Maybe not as obvious but the changes will still be there.  If you go from a 5U4G to a 5AR4 there is considerably less voltage drop under load, so if we say the load is fairly heavy maybe on the order of 175mA the difference in B+ seen by the output tubes could be as much as 30V with capacitor loading.  Changing the plate voltage of the output tubes by 30V would definitely be audible.
   
  On the other hand, if you say that raising the B+ voltage will result in all 5U4G rectifiers sounding about the same, when normally you can hear differences even among different 5U4G tubes, then I would say there is probably a lot of validity to that.
   
  That's my understanding of it at any rate, hopefully somebody can chime in if I'm wrong.  I love technical discussions like these.  I think it is very beneficial to have a good working knowledge of how these amps function.


----------



## Silent One

I agree! I learn quite a bit when members are able to have an exchange over technical matters. Knowledge also enhances my appreciation for my Woo.


----------



## Silent One

For those with vinyl rigs pushing their Woo's, _SADE hit the street... _


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thrak said:


> interesting... how does that work when you stack them?  i guess the DAC is meant to be 'always on'?


 
_*Jack offers accessories when you want to stack them.*_
  
 Foot Stands, a set of four:
The foot stands are necessary when stacking the WTP-1 CD transport on the top of the WDS-1 D/A. They allow extra stability and keep one of the feet from pressing down on the power switch.

  AC Umbilical Cord:
You will need this cord in conjunction with the WDS-1 D/A. This custom-made short AC cord (30cm or 1-foot) connects between the AC Outlet of the WTP-1 CD transport and the AC Inlet of the WDS-1 D/A. This cord allows one to switch both units on by pressing the top power button.


----------



## Eee Pee

"The foot stands are necessary"
   
  "You will need this cord"
   
  Those aren't really accessories when they're needed are they?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I looked at the picture and I don't see how you can turn the DAC off if you wanted to, then I was guessing the footers or feet still might be prototypes.  I imagined a finger cut out maybe?  It's pushing down right on the button on their main page.
   
  How neat would it be that if you pressed the power button on the transport something in the foot stand below pressed the power button on the DAC.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> "The foot stands are necessary"
> 
> "You will need this cord"
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, I guess I should have said that Jack offers _*Necessaries*_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_noun_ (usu. *necessaries*) (also *necessaries of life* [with headphones])
 the basic requirements of life, such as food, warmth and headphone amps.
 • small items required for a particular journey or purpose: _I hastily threw a few necessaries into a headphone case and never returned._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> +1
> 
> aint it great when you can combine fetishes?


 

 My discretion was a complete waste of time! You summed it up quite nicely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are we past Family Hour on the East Coast?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oh, I guess I should have said that Jack offers _*Necessaries*_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I like this option!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My discretion was a complete waste of time! You summed it up quite nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Almost...


----------



## Eee Pee

Probably need power cords, too, eh?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Whose Woo will be the first to sport the full balanced connection starting from the DAC to the WA22 to a balanced cabled headphone?  Sounds good just typing it.  Transport on top, sweetness.
   
  I also wonder where it's made after seeing this little quip here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ces/2012/audio.htm#woo
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> New from Woo Audio is a CD transport and DAC, which unlike his extraordinary hand-made amplifiers, won't be made in New York:


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Probably need power cords, too, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You mean a full Woo outfit?  There are a lot of us WA22 owner have full balanced setup but not all Woo...


----------



## Silent One

I'd like to think since the WA22's introduction, that a member has already gone front-end balanced out into a balanced DAC (W4S?) and out to the '22' ending with Denon D7000 XLR-balanced... oh, sorry! I was daydreaming. But, into a balanced cabled headphone of choice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You mean a full Woo outfit?  There are a lot of us WA22 owner have full balanced setup but not all Woo...


 

 It would have to be all Woo 'cause we're already aware of current owners like yourself...


----------



## Eee Pee

Yep, full Woo ensemble.  The WA22 has tempted me for a while, now add in the option of fully balanced Woo-ary.  Woo-ccessories... pretty sweet!
   
  I have to keep telling myself, stick to the plan man.  DNA Stratus...
   
  Fortunately, the whole plan is very loosely based and subject to change at any time.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It would have to be all Woo 'cause we're already aware of current owners like yourself...


 

 As much as I like to try it myself, there is a new player just released and calling my name loud and clear.
   

   


  Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Yep, full Woo ensemble.  The WA22 has tempted me for a while, now add in the option of fully balanced Woo-ary.  Woo-ccessories... pretty sweet!
> 
> I have to keep telling myself, stick to the plan man.  DNA Stratus...
> 
> Fortunately, the whole plan is very loosely based and subject to change at any time.


 

 Well, I'm going to be a devil again and help you spend the money.  As much as I like DNA stuff, the single ended input kills the deal for me.


----------



## Silent One

I'm guessing I won't be the first person to realize how great the temptation for gear is inside this thread.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm guessing I won't be the first person to realize how great the temptation for gear is inside this thread.


 


   
  Nope, you are not the first one to point this out.
   
  I was holding back on upgrade to D700 just because of this.  Without it, how can I take glamour pics of Woo and the glow of EML???  I guess I'm finding myself reasons to upgrade.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I can definitely understand where you are coming from with this, but with different rectifiers types having varying degrees of voltage drop under load, using any rectifier other than the one designed for the circuit will always result in a slightly higher or lower B+ to the tubes which is going to be audible, wouldn't you agree?  Maybe not as obvious but the changes will still be there.  If you go from a 5U4G to a 5AR4 there is considerably less voltage drop under load, so if we say the load is fairly heavy maybe on the order of 175mA the difference in B+ seen by the output tubes could be as much as 30V with capacitor loading.  Changing the plate voltage of the output tubes by 30V would definitely be audible.
> 
> On the other hand, if you say that raising the B+ voltage will result in all 5U4G rectifiers sounding about the same, when normally you can hear differences even among different 5U4G tubes, then I would say there is probably a lot of validity to that.
> 
> That's my understanding of it at any rate, hopefully somebody can chime in if I'm wrong.  I love technical discussions like these.  I think it is very beneficial to have a good working knowledge of how these amps function.


 

 of course, if you change the voltage from the primary of your power tranny you will have to change the specs of the circuit
  to allow for use of the output tubes within it's own operating linear curve. my point is that much of the audible differences that
  we hear in woo amps by rolling the rectifiers has to do with lack of a stiff power supply. but increasing the voltage will inevitably
  increase the cost of parts that follow it. here's a small example of what the rectifiers should see to maximize their electron transfer.

 the 5ar4's designed typical operating point is near 250v with a max of 1500v.
  gz32 is near 375v with max of 1400v
  5u4g is near 450v with max of 1550v
  274b is near 500v with max of 1650v
  5r4gy is near 750v with max of 2800v


----------



## Eee Pee

I imagine the Woo would do well posting a few pictures of the transport and DAC and WA22 all hooked up, side by side.  All balanced wired.  Looks good in my head.
   
  Canon > Nikon


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> I imagine the Woo would do well posting a few pictures of the transport and DAC and WA22 all hooked up, side by side.  All balanced wired.  Looks good in my head.
> 
> *Canon > Nikon*


 


   
  Yes on P&S but not on SLR.  It is more of personal preference...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





takezo said:


> of course, if you change the voltage from the primary of your power tranny you will have to change the specs of the circuit
> to allow for use of the output tubes within it's own operating linear curve. my point is that much of the audible differences that
> we hear in woo amps by rolling the rectifiers has to do with lack of a stiff power supply. but increasing the voltage will inevitably
> increase the cost of parts that follow it. here's a small example of what the rectifiers should see to maximize their electron transfer.
> ...


 

 Where would my USAF-596 rectifier get slotted? Thanks.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> ...
> 
> Canon > Nikon


 
  Maybe.
   
  But Nikon Glass > Canon Glass.
   
  Either way you should skip the middle man and just use a Sony Alpha.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is true and stated in the Woo Audio Manual. That if plugging in 2 or more headphones, the sound quality may be degraded. Not sure how many conductors are on the TRS for the '22' but if it's three then the jack is balanced; if two then.... Glenn, how many?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Here is a pix of the WA22 before I modded it you can see just two wires to the headphone jacks and they get to the 1/4" jack first.

   
  This picture after mod I changed the 1/4" jack with one with switches that connects to ground when the 1/4" plug is plugged in. You can see the blue wires I added and the run to
  the output transformers secondary that i picked off ground you can see the added blue wires on the left side of the chassis running to the back to the output transformers.
  Buy plugging a cable into the 1/4" jack you added the capacitance of the cable that will change the sound. To check this get a 1/4"  stereo plug with no cable you can get one
  at Radio shack.


----------



## shipsupt

I hate to even think what this camera could cost me in lens purchases because I'd have to make leap to full frame... But I'm still interested!  D300 moves to back up camera duty... D80 is finished... 
   
  And the Woo stays!

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> As much as I like to try it myself, there is a new player just released and calling my name loud and clear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Maybe.
> 
> But Nikon Glass > Canon Glass.
> 
> Either way you should skip the middle man and just use a Sony Alpha.


 


  X2


  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I hate to even think what this camera could cost me in lens purchases because I'd have to make leap to full frame... But I'm still interested!  D300 moves to back up camera duty... D80 is finished...
> 
> And the Woo stays!


 

 I think I'm a little more lucky than you, I still have all the lens back to the F3HP and F4 time which can use as FX but still going to get the 24-70 f/2.8.
   
  My WA22 is not going anywhere even if I can afford the WA5...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how much are the adaptors. i think i want to save up and try out silentone's legendary EML 6U4G + tung sol bgrp 6sn7gt combo. (he only had it for a day or 2. but said the combo was really good and way better than all the other wa6-se combos)


 


 You would be better off getting Tung-Sol 6F8G RP it is the same tube as the 6SN7BGRP just in the older G stile tube with one grid connection on top of the tube.
  that tube will have to have a different adapter with grid lead.  The 6F8G can be gotten for allot less money then the 6SN7BGRP.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Where would my USAF-596 rectifier get slotted? Thanks


 
   
   
  just from memory, operating voltage is similar to the 5u4g but the max is higher at 2300v


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You would be better off getting Tung-Sol 6F8G RP it is the same tube as the 6SN7BGRP just in the older G stile tube with one grid connection on top of the tube.
> that tube will have to have a different adapter with grid lead.  The 6F8G can be gotten for allot less money then the 6SN7BGRP.


 

 I wanted to go down the 6F8G path so very badly. But as luck would have it, in autumn you had difficulty sourcing pins for the adapters. Sounds like you're good to go. Will make my second pair of TS-BGRP's 6F8G, then.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Here is a pix of the WA22 before I modded it you can see just two wires to the headphone jacks and they get to the 1/4" jack first.
> 
> 
> This picture after mod I changed the 1/4" jack with one with switches that connects to ground when the 1/4" plug is plugged in. You can see the blue wires I added and the run to
> ...


 

 Thanks for your time, as always. Your "Capped" efforts in the second pix leaves me mesmerized.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for your time, as always. Your "Capped" efforts in the second pix leaves me mesmerized.


 


 I should have used PIO caps instead of the V-caps I prefer the sound of paper in oil and allot less money then the V-caps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I should have used PIO caps instead of the V-caps I prefer the sound of paper in oil and allot less money then the V-caps.


 

_R-e-a-l-l-y..... I like the sound of money saved. What vendor? And what savings?? Might have to shove the little one out the door to you sooner than later._


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I hate to even think what this camera could cost me in lens purchases because I'd have to make leap to full frame... But I'm still interested!  D300 moves to back up camera duty... D80 is finished...
> 
> And the Woo stays!


 

 i'm in the same boat and loaded with DX glass that i really don't want to have to replace.  but i need something more manageable (weight & bulk) than my D2X.  so i'm actually waiting for a D400.  will there be such a thing?  i do hope so.  then my D100 can be relieved from backup duty and converted to IR permanently


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _R-e-a-l-l-y..... I like the sound of money saved. What vendor? And what savings?? Might have to shove the little one out the door to you sooner than later._


 


 Usually Sprague Vitamin-Q but I also use Russian PIO caps that sound really good and only cost $1.00 including shipping from Russia.


----------



## cacatalysis

Has anybody had experience with the TS 6F8G Black Glass Rib Plates?  How do they sound in comparison to other TS 6F8Gs (round plate, flat plate etc)?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Tung-Sol 6F8G Tubes*
> 
> What to make of this seller's claim, Black Glass Rib Plates better than the Black Glass Round Plates? I've no idea,which is why I'm asking... and interested.
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Has anybody had experience with the TS 6F8G Black Glass Rib Plates?  How do they sound in comparison to other TS 6F8Gs (round plate, flat plate etc)?


 
   
  Aren't CV181 and 6SN7 totally different types of tubes? I'm confused.
   
_Typical *6SN7* heaters draw about *0.6A* and the *CV181z* draws about *0.9A (900mA)*, the old Mullard CV181 drew 950mA. This 50% increase in heater current amounts to 0.6A for a pair of CV181 in a circuit, which as you can see represents the load of a whole extra double triode._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Aren't CV181 and 6SN7 totally different types of tubes? I'm confused.
> 
> _Typical *6SN7* heaters draw about *0.6A* and the *CV181z* draws about *0.9A (900mA)*, the old Mullard CV181 drew 950mA. This 50% increase in heater current amounts to 0.6A for a pair of CV181 in a circuit, which as you can see represents the load of a whole extra double triode._


 


  The CV181 and 6SN7 are different. It is the CV181-z that is similar in construction to the 6SN7. *"Better than the round plate Tung-sol 6SN7 !"* I consulted with a few people about the TS-Ribbed Plates versus TS-Round Plates and all felt that the Ribbed Plates could be good but felt they were not as magical as the Round Plates. Skylab was the latest to echo this opinion.
   
  Between these two claims and the seller's asking price, I couldn't run fast enough! Nearly bought Skylab's pair of TS-Ribbed Plates @ $125 shipped. But then I decided to just pull the trigger on TS-BGRP's in the VT-231 envelope, since Glenn was unable to source pins for my 6F8G>6DE7 adapters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Usually Sprague Vitamin-Q but I also use Russian PIO caps that sound really good and only cost $1.00 including shipping from Russia.


 


  I seem to recall you would have preferred using some large PIO caps in MM's WA22 but they would not fit the chassis. Forgot what you called them but did call them the best. Me? I'm bold. When it's my turn to mod, I want you to shoe-horn that bad boy in there much like Brabus and AMG does with big V-12 motors in Mercedes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Even if you have the leave the top off!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I seem to recall you would have preferred using some large PIO caps in MM's WA22 but they would not fit the chassis. Forgot what you called them but did call them the best. Me? I'm bold. When it's my turn to mod, I want you to shoe-horn that bad boy in there much like Brabus and AMG does with big V-12 motors in Mercedes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  X2, I'm still considering to send my WA22 to Glenn to mod the SE out.


----------



## john57

*Sprague Vitamin Q PIO Capacitor*
 [size=x-small]Sprague "Vitamin Q" capacitors are a beautiful example of how things used to be manufactured right. These capacitors are built like a tank and sport a special vitamin Q mineral oil to soak the dielectric; the overbuilt Russian oil caps have nothing on these NOS caps when it comes to build quality. Almost a cult favorite among DIYers over many years, Vitamin Q's certainly live up to their reputation for great sound quality.[/size]
  [size=x-small]After the usual rough period of settling in, Vit Q's came alive with beautiful tonal color, bags of textural contrast, and a sense of immediacy. There is a "wetness" to its presentation that is quite beguiling, yet it's very detailed and sparkling, definitely not polite or overly dark. If you find the Jensen copper PIO's a little too refined and buttery smooth in your system, Vit Q's might fit in very well instead. On the other hand, many audiophiles prefer that velvety smooth sound, in which case they will likely prefer something like Jensens. Both offer more openness and air compared to the denser sound of Russian K40y PIO's, but all three PIO's are capable of doing music justice with synergistic placement.[/size]
  [size=x-small]Previously I tried bypassing the Jensens with small Russian Teflon caps to add a litte more sparkle and contrast, but in the end I decided I prefer the Jensens by itself to preserve its own charms. I have no such desire to bypass the Vit Q because it seems to have enough contrasty sparkle already. Vit Q's don't sound like good polypropylene caps, Teflon caps, polystyrenes, or anything else, really, but they have a unique, involving character that's hard not to enjoy.[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/1108/capacitor3.htm[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, john57, will go have a look!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Cap choices can become almost an obsession in itself I've discovered since there seems to be such a variation.  Given how much they can impact the audio signal one wants to get them just right.  This is why I really perked up recently when Glenn mentioned the possibility of direct coupling given the right choice of tubes, because when you think about it as far as sound quality goes the best cap is always going to be no cap.  I've heard it can negatively affect output tube life, but unless it is severe it is probably worth it.


----------



## Silent One

The options can generate a dizzying number of possibilities in sound! For now, I think I'll decide simply which tea to complete the lunch hour...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The options can generate a dizzying number of possibilities in sound! For now, I think I'll decide simply which tea to complete the lunch hour...


 


 Huang Shan Mao Feng Reserve


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Maybe.
> 
> But Nikon Glass > Canon Glass.
> 
> Either way you should skip the middle man and just use a Sony Alpha.


 


 My Canon 1ds was stolen.  I had used Canon for 20 years.  With the insurance settlement I decided to go with Nikon.  got a D3s with their 70-200/2.8 and 24-70/2.8....WOW, I must say that after using Canon L glass for years, I do like the Nikon glass better.  tack sharp even at the far end with bokeh to die for.  I was seriously hooked.


----------



## hodgjy

I have have owned both Canon and Nikon systems.  I have had numerous problems with Canon lenses and bodies consistently back focusing and front focusing.  These are corrected by calibration, but it's still a pain.  My point being is Canon lenses are often "soft" out of the box, but once calibrated, they are wonderful.  Nikon, on the other hand, is sharp out of the box.  I've never had a calibration issue with Nikon glass.
   
  I agree with your assessment, but I was just trying to explain why.
  
  Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> My Canon 1ds was stolen.  I had used Canon for 20 years.  With the insurance settlement I decided to go with Nikon.  got a D3s with their 70-200/2.8 and 24-70/2.8....WOW, I must say that after using Canon L glass for years, I do like the Nikon glass better.  tack sharp even at the far end with bokeh to die for.  I was seriously hooked.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Huang Shan Mao Feng Reserve


 







 Lucky guess! But I am down to one last serving, need to pay for that EML Glass before any re-ordering. Still, I have my preferred Jasmine Dragon Phoenix Pearls to satisfy my time with the Woo later this week...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have have owned both Canon and Nikon systems.  I have had numerous problems with Canon lenses and bodies consistently back focusing and front focusing.  These are corrected by calibration, but it's still a pain.  My point being is Canon lenses are often "soft" out of the box, but once calibrated, they are wonderful.  Nikon, on the other hand, is sharp out of the box.  I've never had a calibration issue with Nikon glass.
> 
> I agree with your assessment, but I was just trying to explain why.


 

 Your avatar... simply brilliant! Though, I could see recovering tube addicts struggling to cope. And left feeling haunted inside this thread.


----------



## ardilla

Do people think Woo is gonna launch a DAC-amp?


----------



## Silent One

I'm back indoors now. But, I had been waiting outside for the debut of their headphones. Likely to be a Stat or Planar...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Cap choices can become almost an obsession in itself I've discovered since there seems to be such a variation.  Given how much they can impact the audio signal one wants to get them just right.  This is why I really perked up recently when Glenn mentioned the possibility of direct coupling given the right choice of tubes, because when you think about it as far as sound quality goes the best cap is always going to be no cap.  I've heard it can negatively affect output tube life, but unless it is severe it is probably worth it.


 


  Your mention of "Direct Coupling" is fascinating. Will contact our resident Doc!


----------



## Clayton SF

I apologize for being a bit OT (Oh Tea--get it? Okay, sorry, bad pun) but from one Woo tea drinker to others (and in the middle of expert Woo musings and wonderful tea topics) which tea is this? It makes a delicious beverage. It was wrapped in a plain wax paper so I have no idea what it is.
   
  Photo on the Left is Mystery Tea.
  Photo on the Right is no Mystery to Me.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I apologize for being a bit OT (Oh Tea--get it? Okay, sorry, bad pun) but from one Woo tea drinker to others (and in the middle of expert Woo musings and wonderful tea topics) which tea is this? It makes a delicious beverage. It was wrapped in a plain wax paper so I have no idea what it is.
> 
> Photo on the Left is Mystery Tea.
> Photo on the Right is no Mystery to Me.
> ...


 

 Looks like Pu'erh. I think.
  http://www.davidstea.com/our-teas/pu-erh-tea/about


----------



## Draygonn

ardilla said:


> Do people think think Woo is gonna launch a DAC-amp?




Since they don't venture into solid state I would think no. I would like them to release a sideways version of their DAC so the WA2 will fit on top of it


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your mention of "Direct Coupling" is fascinating. Will contact our resident Doc!


 


  I'm pretty sure it's not possible to do this with a Woo if that is what you were wondering.  It's a no go with a 6SN7 driver at the very least, and in the case of the WA6/SE it's not applicable since there is no dedicated output tube.


----------



## Silent One

Great wit and pix as always from you, Clayton. So, what does it smell like? Taste like? Great guess, fellow cyclist (ckunstadt). Oh, I did want to add that the instructions for preparation you received would narrow down what your mystery tea is (steeping times).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm pretty sure it's not possible to do this with a Woo if that is what you were wondering.  It's a no go with a 6SN7 driver at the very least, and in the case of the WA6/SE it's not applicable since there is no dedicated output tube.


 

 Aha! You knew that's what left me mystified. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I fired up the Woo last night , by the way. The unidentified Sylvania sounds more like a 6SN7GTB. Also, it returned a much bigger, bolder and detailed sound than its WGTA sibling. It was good. Not great, but good.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I apologize for being a bit OT (Oh Tea--get it? Okay, sorry, bad pun) but from one Woo tea drinker to others (and in the middle of expert Woo musings and wonderful tea topics) which tea is this? It makes a delicious beverage. It was wrapped in a plain wax paper so I have no idea what it is.
> 
> Photo on the Left is Mystery Tea.
> Photo on the Right is no Mystery to Me.
> ...


 
  Gunpowder?  Pu-erh has a pretty distinct flavor.  If it tastes like a strong green tea I would say Gunpowder.
  
  Edit: gunpowder picture 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Th%C3%A9_vert_gunpowder_entass%C3%A9_01.jpg


----------



## leng jai

From another thread:
   
_Alright bought both my Woo Audio products from Addicted 2 Audio and it couldn't have gone any better. The stand was bought online and delivered to my door for within the next day. No worries there._
   
   
_I went in-store to buy the Woo Audio 2 and it was an extremely pleasant experience. I chatted to George for a while about the Woo amps in general and the LCD line of phones during the transaction and it was just a really friendly environment. Alas I didn't have time to stay otherwise I would have auditioned the LCD3. Clearly these guys have a great relationship with the guys at Woo. Upon unpacking the amp I noticed there was a miniscule looking imperfection on the volume knob. I'm quite pedantic about these things when I buy something new so I emailed Jack at Woo about buying a replacement knob. I really didn't expect them to send one for free as it was a very minor detail and completely trivial. A few days later George emails me about it - it turns out Jack had contacted him about my email and organized a new volume knob to be sent free of charge with their next shipment. As soon as it landed in Melbourne I received it the next day. _
   
   
_Needless to say very impressed by both companies after this experience._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> My Canon 1ds was stolen.  I had used Canon for 20 years.  With the insurance settlement I decided to go with Nikon.  got a D3s with their 70-200/2.8 and 24-70/2.8....WOW, I must say that after using Canon L glass for years, I do like the Nikon glass better.  tack sharp even at the far end with bokeh to die for.  I was seriously hooked.


 


   


  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have have owned both Canon and Nikon systems.  I have had numerous problems with Canon lenses and bodies consistently back focusing and front focusing.  These are corrected by calibration, but it's still a pain.  My point being is Canon lenses are often "soft" out of the box, but once calibrated, they are wonderful.  Nikon, on the other hand, is sharp out of the box.  I've never had a calibration issue with Nikon glass.
> 
> I agree with your assessment, but I was just trying to explain why.


 

  
  During the college days, I was working for one Ritz Camera flagship stores that carries the high end/professional line.  During the downtime, I usually take both Nikon and Canon top of the line cameras with 50 f1.4 or 28 f2.8 lens out to do some comparison shots.  Most of the time, not every time, the Nikon one is slightly shaper especially on the edges.  Like Z06_Pilot said, the Nikon bokeh is to die for when taking head and shoulder shots.
   
  Steering the thread back on track.  Lately, I'm enjoying the HD800 with WA22.  That soft old light bulb glow really does it on a cold winter night.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> From another thread:
> 
> _Alright bought both my Woo Audio products from Addicted 2 Audio and it couldn't have gone any better. The stand was bought online and delivered to my door for within the next day. No worries there._
> 
> ...


 

 Totally agreed that Jack is a standup guy.  I brought my WA22 from oversea and it has a minor damage during shipping and I contacted Jack since I'm in US and he offered to repair it for me even the original owner has modded the amp with Blackgates.  Jack fixed the issues and offered to make the BGs neater for a very small fee.


----------



## 188479

Hey Woo Users:
   
  I've been a long time lurker to this thread and will be buying my own Woo amp in the next 2 months.  Still going back and forth on what to get.  For a little background, I plan to own the Beyer T1, Grado RS1 & LCD 2 with this amp (already have a HD600).  My current thoughts go something like this:
   
  WA2 - Not great with the LCD2 or RS1 and probably not a great all around high & low imped amp
  WA6SE - Strongly leaning towards this as it seems like a great all around amp
  WA22 - Interesting to me as my DAC will have a balanced option, but I plan on also using a turntable as a source and feel (from what I've read that it will not be as good with a single ended source)
  WA5 - Seems like the best bet for what I want to do, but I would want it maxed...and the price is just too steep at this point.
   
  So, any help and/or input that you would like to share?  My house has a closing date so as soon as the money is there and I'm in my new apartment, I will be ready to pull the trigger and give Jack the order.  I just need to figure out WHAT to order.
   
  Kevin


----------



## Redcarmoose

Yes......the Woo Audio Tea Mod. I'm drinking an Alwazzan Ceylon at the moment. The nicest tea I have ever found. I second the gunpowder green tea answer. This thread is the greatest........Headphone Amps-Tea.........what else do you need?


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The CV181 and 6SN7 are different. It is the CV181-z that is similar in construction to the 6SN7. *"Better than the round plate Tung-sol 6SN7 !"* I consulted with a few people about the TS-Ribbed Plates versus TS-Round Plates and all felt that the Ribbed Plates could be good but felt they were not as magical as the Round Plates. Skylab was the latest to echo this opinion.
> 
> Between these two claims and the seller's asking price, I couldn't run fast enough! Nearly bought Skylab's pair of TS-Ribbed Plates @ $125 shipped. But then I decided to just pull the trigger on TS-BGRP's in the VT-231 envelope, since Glenn was unable to source pins for my 6F8G>6DE7 adapters.


 

 I do have parts for these adapters now


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Gunpowder?  Pu-erh has a pretty distinct flavor.  If it tastes like a strong green tea I would say Gunpowder.
> 
> Edit: gunpowder picture
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Th%C3%A9_vert_gunpowder_entass%C3%A9_01.jpg


 


  Oh. Yeah. That looks just like it!  I've never tried gunpowder. I guess I assumed gunpowder was another name for matcha - as in it would be all ground up into... powder.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm pretty sure it's not possible to do this with a Woo if that is what you were wondering.  It's a no go with a 6SN7 driver at the very least, and in the case of the WA6/SE it's not applicable since there is no dedicated output tube.


 

 the wa6se has a directly coupled interstage between the driver and power sections; it's the only one in their lineup.
  the driver section plate pin 6 is connected to power section grid pin 2 via a 1k ohm resistor.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hey Woo Users:
> 
> I've been a long time lurker to this thread and will be buying my own Woo amp in the next 2 months.  Still going back and forth on what to get.  For a little background, I plan to own the Beyer T1, Grado RS1 & LCD 2 with this amp (already have a HD600).  My current thoughts go something like this:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah i've read folks crap on the WA22's SE output and I couldn't disagree more. Unless using speakers I run my turntable through my WA22 or CSP2+ and couldn't be happier with either.


----------



## ckunstadt

This happened on Friday. Got about 30 hours into. Yeah... it's pretty great.


----------



## cacatalysis

Silent One, Thanks for your information.  Did any of those you consulted with provide more detailed comments regarding the difference between the two.  Could you tell me whether Skylabs pair is NOS or used?  You can PM me the answer to my last question.   

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The CV181 and 6SN7 are different. It is the CV181-z that is similar in construction to the 6SN7. *"Better than the round plate Tung-sol 6SN7 !"* I consulted with a few people about the TS-Ribbed Plates versus TS-Round Plates and all felt that the Ribbed Plates could be good but felt they were not as magical as the Round Plates. Skylab was the latest to echo this opinion.
> 
> Between these two claims and the seller's asking price, I couldn't run fast enough! Nearly bought Skylab's pair of TS-Ribbed Plates @ $125 shipped. But then I decided to just pull the trigger on TS-BGRP's in the VT-231 envelope, since Glenn was unable to source pins for my 6F8G>6DE7 adapters.


----------



## Silent One

Stunning ckunstadt, just stunning!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Silent One, Thanks for your information.  Did any of those you consulted with provide more detailed comments regarding the difference between the two.  Could you tell me whether Skylabs pair is NOS or used?  You can PM me the answer to my last question.


 

 PM to come...


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> This happened on Friday. Got about 30 hours into. Yeah... it's pretty great.


 


  Beautiful set-up, CKunstadt. Really dig the simplicity of the presentation.   =.= 
   
  Thanks for sharing the pictures.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> This happened on Friday. Got about 30 hours into. Yeah... it's pretty great.


 

 Great setup! Gotta say, great minds think alike (W4S DAC-2 --> WA22 --> LCD-3).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Beautiful set-up, CKunstadt. Really dig the simplicity of the presentation.   =.=
> 
> Thanks for sharing the pictures.


 







 I'm with you on this one!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Great setup! Gotta say, great minds think alike (W4S DAC-2 --> WA22 --> LCD-3).


 

 Well, at least I share the Shoe-box going into a Woo with y'all.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, at least I share the Shoe-box going into a Woo with y'all.


----------



## Silent One

Notice he shares "_This happened on Friday_." It's safe to say he had to rift through his music library for a few days... and then thought about us! This is normal, I suppose.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Notice he shares "_This happened on Friday_." It's safe to say he had to rift through his music library for a few days... and then he thought about us! This is normal, I suppose.


 


  Lol, very likely. He also jumped right into the tube upgrades too! I hope he's got XLR cables running from his DAC to his amp.
   
  I've gotta try the Emmission Labs rectifiers one day. Got my brown base 5692 Sylvanias in right now and they are the most dynamic driver tubes I've heard yet.


----------



## Audiogalore

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> This happened on Friday. Got about 30 hours into. Yeah... it's pretty great.


 



 Congrats,
   
  Enjoy music!


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Great setup! Gotta say, great minds think alike (W4S DAC-2 --> WA22 --> LCD-3).


 


  Totally. I have been keeping track of some of your choices and comments. Especially wrt tubes. I have a few pairs of 6SN7s and I can already tell this is going to be WAY too much fun. So... thanks?? Yes. thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Lol, very likely. He also jumped right into the tube upgrades too! I hope he's got XLR cables running from his DAC to his amp.
> 
> I've gotta try the Emmission Labs rectifiers one day. Got my brown base 5692 Sylvanias in right now and they are the most dynamic driver tubes I've heard yet.


 

 I am at once poor and curious about tubes. How's that going to work out? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Always wanted to know how the best 5692 would do in my Woo! Since running smooth and cool with 6SN7 series tubes, not sure I wanna run that hot right now.
   
  You gotta get some EML Glass - beautiful sounding, beautiful looking... what's not to love?! I may have to recommend some Wirewold candy to our guy. What XLR's are you running?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Totally. I have been keeping track of some of your choices and comments. Especially wrt tubes. I have a few pairs of 6SN7s and I can already tell this is going to be WAY too much fun. So... thanks?? Yes. thanks.


 


  Your welcome...buhahaha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Enjoy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Totally. I have been keeping track of some of your choices and comments. Especially wrt tubes. I have a few pairs of 6SN7s and I can already tell this is going to be WAY too much fun. So... thanks?? Yes. thanks.


 


  For archival purposes, you may want to take a pix of your wallet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This way, you'll remember it as it was. Got XLR Interconnects? If so, what kind?


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Lol, very likely. He also jumped right into the tube upgrades too! I hope he's got XLR cables running from his DAC to his amp.
> 
> I've gotta try the Emmission Labs rectifiers one day. Got my brown base 5692 Sylvanias in right now and they are the most dynamic driver tubes I've heard yet.


 


  I have to wait just another couple days for my Grover Huffman XLRs to arrive! Running RCA for now. I'm trying to find some of those Syl 5692 because you've mentioned them. I have a plastic base GZ34 coming. We'll hear how that is!  It all sounds really good - no doubt. I do feel like the LCD-3s have some floppy bass. They are kind of FAT at the low end... like cankles. Bass control seems like the main issue for now.
   
  ALso.. you guys all RULE.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> I have to wait just another couple days for my Grover Huffman XLRs to arrive! Running RCA for now. I'm trying to find some of those Syl 5692 because you've mentioned them. I have a plastic base GZ34 coming. We'll hear how that is!  It all sounds really good - no doubt. I do feel like the LCD-3s have some floppy bass. They are kind of FAT at the low end... like cankles. Bass control seems like the main issue for now.
> 
> ALso.. you guys all RULE.


 

 Give the amp and cans some time to burn in. I don't find there any flab there whatsoever. The XLRs will help out too. While the WA22 can sound very good with unbalanced inputs, it does kick it up a notch with balanced inputs.


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> ALso.. you guys all RULE.


 


  I was just about to post a similar sentiment. Thanks to everyone in this forum for ... well, for just being you. I'm having fun, while learning. Who'd a thunk it?!
   
  I've settled on the W4S and WA22 as my system of choice. I can't get around the fact that the WA5LE doesn't have balanced-in. Not that you all care, but sharing this with you all is in some way more meaningful than sharing it with my wife, it feeds my inner Woo.
   
  Hmmm, let's not go crazy over the wife comment. We're JUST hanging out, drinking tea, talking about Woo. No reason to read into it. No, no reason whatsoever.
   
  Group hug?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





takezo said:


> the wa6se has a directly coupled interstage between the driver and power sections; it's the only one in their lineup.
> the driver section plate pin 6 is connected to power section grid pin 2 via a 1k ohm resistor.


 

 *facepalm*  I had totally forgotten about that.  It's one of the major selling points over the regular WA6 now that I remember.  Thanks for pointing that out for us.


----------



## Swatcsi

Anybody care to comment on WA5-LE with T1's?


----------



## WindyCityCy

Sweeeeeetttttttttttttt setup!
  
  Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> This happened on Friday. Got about 30 hours into. Yeah... it's pretty great.


----------



## kchew

ckunstadt, your photos bring back fond memories of me unboxing my WA22 when it arrived in December 2010. She's a beauty. May you have as much fun with her as I have with mine.
   
  If those are RCA grey glass VT-231s, they might be contributing to the fat bass you're hearing. Any other 6SN7s you're going to try?


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





kchew said:


> ckunstadt, your photos bring back fond memories of me unboxing my WA22 when it arrived in December 2010. She's a beauty. May you have as much fun with her as I have with mine.
> 
> If those are RCA grey glass VT-231s, they might be contributing to the fat bass you're hearing. Any other 6SN7s you're going to try?


 


  That's true. The RCA grey glass is contributing to much of that. Things do seem to be improving every day. I also have some Sylvania JAN 6SN7WGTA which are very 3D but a bit dry. They sound really nice with good recordings and rough with average recordings. My favs (and only others) so far, are my Sylvania VT-231 2-hole plates (similar to bad boy). They are more liquid than the WGTAs and are doing really well with most of my music.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Anybody care to comment on WA5-LE with T1's?


 


   
  I'm curious too, as it was next on my list. Everything I read seems to suggest it would be grand. Nothing like a real-life demo though. If no one chimes in we could just post a whole new thread about it.


----------



## ardilla

So wonderful to see such an interest in tea! I have only one theophile freind, and he is also the only guy I know who's got a tube amp (except for the people I've gotten to know BECAUSE they have a tube amp) Now I'm getting the feeling that thereis more of a connection between tea and tubes than I thought 
   
  On the tea-side I'm sad because I just finished the premium Long Jing, and all my first flush Darjeling is also gone. Have som nice light Oolong whcih is perfect for Gung Fu Cha, though. 
   
   
   
  I would also think gunpowder - does it taste like gunpowder??
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I apologize for being a bit OT (Oh Tea--get it? Okay, sorry, bad pun)


 
   
  Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Looks like Pu'erh. I think.
> http://www.davidstea.com/our-teas/pu-erh-tea/about


 
   
  Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Gunpowder?  Pu-erh has a pretty distinct flavor.  If it tastes like a strong green tea I would say Gunpowder.


 
   
  Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Yes......the Woo Audio Tea Mod. I'm drinking an Alwazzan Ceylon at the moment. The nicest tea I have ever found. I second the gunpowder green tea answer. This thread is the greatest........Headphone Amps-Tea.........what else do you need?


----------



## ardilla

Ahh - some pictures of Gung Fu Cha stash - there is sort of a tube amp feeling to these pics 
 ​   ​  ​  ​ ​


----------



## ardilla

Yeah - the heat inside an tube OTL amp isn't necessarily good for a integrated dac... But a hybrid thing, like a high end version of the Hifiman EF2A maybe?
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Since they don't venture into solid state I would think no. I would like them to release a sideways version of their DAC so the WA2 will fit on top of it


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> So wonderful to see such an interest in tea! I have only one theophile freind, and he is also the only guy I know who's got a tube amp (except for the people I've gotten to know BECAUSE they have a tube amp) Now I'm getting the feeling that thereis more of a connection between tea and tubes than I thought
> 
> On the tea-side I'm sad because I just finished the premium Long Jing, and all my first flush Darjeling is also gone. Have som nice light Oolong whcih is perfect for Gung Fu Cha, though.
> 
> ...


 

_There is a connection between tea & tubes_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both have the ability to calm. Both have the ability to transport. And both have the ability to draw or repel focus. Because both involve ceremony, I'm usually engaged in one and slowly transitioning to the next. This can be a few minutes, few hours or a large part of the day. But Head-Fi always makes the transition from one ceremony to the next appear seamless.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _There is a connection between tea & tubes_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  X2


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _There is a connection between tea & tubes_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Agreed.  This is my set when I'm in the office.


----------



## Silent One

When I awake in five hours @ lunch-time...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Gunpowder?  Pu-erh has a pretty distinct flavor.  If it tastes like a strong green tea I would say Gunpowder.
> 
> Edit: gunpowder picture
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Th%C3%A9_vert_gunpowder_entass%C3%A9_01.jpg


 
   
  Thanks everyone. It is Gunpowder tea. Now I remember. I got that and another tea called high mountain tea which flavor was very delicate.
   
  Gunpowder tea tastes like strong green tea as *pyramid6* said. Perhaps it resembles gunpowder pellets? Anyway thanks again, everyone.


----------



## ardilla

^^^
   
  I dig this.
   
  The other night I couldn't sleep I fanasized about starting a place with a tea salon in the front room and a tube amp oriented section in the back....


----------



## kchew

I feel mortified that even though I'm chinese by race, the only tea I'm familiar with are Xiang Pian, Pu Er, Earl Grey and Lipton Yellow Label... You guys are tempting me to get a nice tea set for office use.
   
  No need for a tea set at home with the Woo though, the tube glow is mesmerising enough.


----------



## Silent One

Welcome to the Wonderful & Wide World of Woo! Where ownership of the _WA 6 Special Edition_ continues to bring me joy. But like many other purchases in life, there are hidden costs associated with my Woo ownership.
   
  Since setting up the twin chassis, black clad anodized ensemble, sleep quality/quantity has slowly diminished over the months - I am suffering.




   
  But no worries. I refuse to lose sleep over the problem of losing sleep (_say what?!_). We're going to be just fine... I'm in-session tonight with South African Singer Busi Mhlongo.


----------



## shipsupt

There must be a Tea-Fi thread?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> ^^^
> 
> I dig this.
> 
> The other night I couldn't sleep I fanasized about starting a place with a tea salon in the front room and a tube amp oriented section in the back....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There must be a Tea-Fi thread?


 


  There is... _without tubes. _


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There must be a Tea-Fi thread?


 


   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> There is... _without tubes. _


 


  X2, enjoying "high mountain green tea" now.


----------



## Silent One

Surprised by daylight, I must dust off the Woo, turn off the lights and get some sleep. Cheers!


----------



## archigius

Hi, anyone ever tried these tubes?
   

   

   
  I bought a pair from Langrex on Ebay and these sound really good!
  Very smooth, balanced with lots of details.
   
  I'm curious to know if someone ever used these or knows where they are from and which manufacturer made these.
  These are unbranded NOS 6H8C, (russian equivalent of 6SN7).
   
  These tubes are cheap (12 euros for a pair) and sound so good.


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _There is a connection between tea & tubes_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Dude. You just blew my mind-grapes. That's so true!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Dude. You just blew my mind-grapes. That's so true!


 


   

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _There is a connection between tea & tubes_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, from a fat wallet to empty in no time...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Hi, anyone ever tried these tubes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I wanted to try it but the more sought after version which will be marked (stamped) "1578." When looking to buy Skylab's Tung-Sol Ribbed Plates, I brought the Russkie's to his attention _but he couldn't get rid of it fast enough. _Calling it thin and brittle next to the Tung-Sol's. If I should trip over it, I'll give it a go. But have many other preferences, so...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Dude. You just blew my mind-grapes. That's so true!


 


  Perhaps, when you come out to the Amgen Tour of California in May...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, from a fat wallet to empty in no time...


 

_An incentive for me to log off right about... now!_


----------



## kchew

The Russian 1578 is a kind of weird tube to me. It sounds dry and kind of boring with the HD800, but it goes nicely with my K240 Sextett and ATH-AD2000. People claim it's as good as the TS BGRP, but not to my ears. Personally I think it's a mid-level tube and not really worth the high asking prices.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





kchew said:


> The Russian 1578 is a kind of weird tube to me. It sounds dry and kind of boring with the HD800, but it goes nicely with my K240 Sextett and *ATH-AD2000. *People claim it's as good as the TS BGRP, but not to my ears. Personally I think it's a mid-level tube and not really worth the high asking prices.


 


  How's the AT with WA22?  I missed mines, should never sold it.


----------



## archigius

I don't know if the version i have is 1578, it says 6H8C 8801.
   
  But the sound is very smooth and full, they pair very well with the T1; if they were thin or bright, they wouldn't pair so well with the Beyer.
   
  The sound is very similar to the 6GL7 that i bought from Jack Wu and maybe slightly smoother on top than the GE 6DN7.
   
  By comparison, the Zenith 6DE7 are thinner and the RCA 6EW7 are not as detailed.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How's the AT with WA22?  I missed mines, should never sold it.


 

 A mixed bag, depending on the tubes the AT can sound very nice to downright weird. What works with the HD800 doesn't with the AT and vice versa. I've not tried all possible tube combinations with the AD2000, but it does seem to like the 1578, National Union and Fivre 6SN7s. But personally I still think a solid state amp is better for the AD2000. Interestingly, I find that the AD2000 sounds better with the WA22 set to high impedence instead of low.


  Quote: 





archigius said:


> I don't know if the version i have is 1578, it says 6H8C 8801.
> 
> But the sound is very smooth and full, they pair very well with the T1; if they were thinor bright, they wouldn't pair so well with the Beyer.
> 
> ...


 

 The 1578 is different from yours, it has a metal base, 5 round holes on each plate and long metal braces on the top mica.
   

   
  It seems like you found some nice tubes at a great price, don't worry about what others say and grab some more.


----------



## archigius

My Woo Audio 6 SE stopped sounding from the right channel!!!
   
  I'm terribly sad!!!!
   
  When the amp arrived, it showed sometimes a hum in the right channel, but not often.
   
  Now the right channel makes only a hum and i can't hear any sound!
   
  I was just listening to music, nothing strange, it did a strong noise and stopped working!!!


----------



## hodgjy

Did switching tubes correct the problem, or is it a non-tube problem?
  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> My Woo Audio 6 SE stopped sounding from the right channel!!!
> 
> I'm terribly sad!!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Did switching tubes correct the problem, or is it a non-tube problem?


 


  No, it's not about the tubes.
   
  I was listening to the 6DE7 and noticed a strong hum, then no more sound from right channel.
   
  I tried all of the other tubes that i have, but right channel seems ko.


----------



## hodgjy

I also have a sad Woo story.  My WA3 started acting up a few weeks ago with the right channel as well.  A hum.  Not that they are related at all, but at least we can wallow in pity together.
  
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> No, it's not about the tubes.
> 
> I was listening to the 6DE7 and noticed a strong hum, then no more sound from right channel.
> 
> I tried all of the other tubes that i have, but right channel seems ko.


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I also have a sad Woo story.  My WA3 started acting up a few weeks ago with the right channel as well.  A hum.  Not that they are related at all, but at least we can wallow in pity together.


 

 That is sad. It's clear that I now have to buy another Woo amp in case my WA22 goes weird for a bit.


----------



## archigius

The big problem is that shipping to USA from Italy is very very pricey!!!
   
  And i have to understand how can avoid to pay custom fees. I have the documents which demonstrate that these taxes have already been payed, so i don't think i have to pay again for a repair.


----------



## ardilla

Check this out.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Why isn't there a "tea-cheers", or Gung Fu Cha - smiley??
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/205270/tea-fi
   
  and just the initial search 
http://www.head-fi.org/search.php?search=Tea
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> There must be a Tea-Fi thread?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





archigius said:


> No, it's not about the tubes.
> 
> I was listening to the 6DE7 and noticed a strong hum, then no more sound from right channel.
> 
> I tried all of the other tubes that i have, but right channel seems ko.


 


  sorry to hear about your wa6se problem. perhaps i can assist you to find the fault.
   
  please take out both the driver/power tubes but leave the rectifier in.
  plug your headphone in, turn volume knob to zero and then turn on the amp. don't worry
  nothing bad will happen as long as it is not on for long duration. after the initial current
  in-rush sound for 10 seconds there should be silence. if you hear the hum after 10 seconds
  please raise the volume knob to see if the hum sound increases in volume. turn off amp
  before 30 seconds has elapsed.
  let us know what you find.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> The Russian 1578 is a kind of weird tube to me. It sounds dry and kind of boring with the HD800, but it goes nicely with my K240 Sextett and ATH-AD2000. People claim it's as good as the TS BGRP, but not to my ears. Personally I think it's a mid-level tube and not really worth the high asking prices.


 

 This is what happens when collectors bids things up. Original value gets lost in the greed and shuffle.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Check this out....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  One of us shall make or locate one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> My Woo Audio 6 SE stopped sounding from the right channel!!!
> 
> I'm terribly sad!!!!
> 
> ...


 

 It ain't over yet! I hope takezo is able to help your Woo recover...


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





takezo said:


> sorry to hear about your wa6se problem. perhaps i can assist you to find the fault.
> 
> please take out both the driver/power tubes but leave the rectifier in.
> plug your headphone in, turn volume knob to zero and then turn on the amp. don't worry
> ...


 


  Takezo, is this free from risk? I'm worried to use the amp without the power tubes, because hight voltage electric energy is there.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Takezo, is this free from risk? I'm worried to use the amp without the power tubes, because hight voltage electric energy is there.


 


  yes, it's fine as long as you don't stick anything into the empty sockets while the amp is on.
  30 sec. will do no harm to your transformers or circuit parts. just make sure it is turned on
  for more than 10 secs and if you hear something increase the volume knob to see if the
  noise increases. then turn the amp off. quick as that. (of course, you would be wearing the
  headphone to listen for the noise. sorry, if i didnt mention this before)


----------



## Silent One

takezo, should Interconnects be left in or taken out?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> takezo, should Interconnects be left in or taken out?


 


  left in. everything should be as normal operation goes, minus the drive/power tubes.
  this is done to see if the humming is coming from the amplification circuit. on a normally
  operating woo amp, it should be dead silent after about 10 sec. from power up.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks. Somewhat off topic, the latest newsletter from HDTracks is out. A must see! 
   
  www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=newest


----------



## Clayton SF

Silent One. What's your latest purchase from HDTracks?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Silent One. What's your latest purchase from HDTracks?


 


  It's going to be Janos Starker shortly. But, will need to fire up the Mac after dinner to check last month's purchases. _Answer: The Album by Stevie Wonder - "Innervisions."_
   
   
   

   
   
  Latest purchase from HDtracks: Stevie Wonder - "Innervisions." Brilliantly conceived, written and recorded. And a very good transfer from the Master Tapes, which Stevie personally keeps himself as opposed to the studio.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Anybody care to comment on WA5-LE with T1's?


 

 I made the decision to buy my WA5-LE when I listen to one with my own T1 and was blown away. The best they have ever sound.


----------



## PanamaRed

Walking the dog this evening I thought I might throw my CSP2+ into the mix as a preamp from my phono stage to the WA22....
   
  Wow! I should have done this a long time ago.
   
  Currently listening to Jimmy Smith's Home Cookin and ohh my how warm and full the sound is.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Latest purchase from HDtracks: Stevie Wonder - "Innervisions." Brilliantly conceived, written and recorded. And a very good transfer from the Master Tapes, which Stevie personally keeps himself as opposed to the studio.


 


  i got that one. great album!


----------



## Silent One

You've got taste, Dubstep Girl! Wait until you hear Stevie's album that preceded it... "Music of My Mind." It is a _powerhouse _on wax!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Walking the dog this evening I thought I might throw my CSP2+ into the mix as a preamp from my phono stage to the WA22....
> 
> *Wow! I should have done this a long time ago.*
> 
> Currently listening to Jimmy Smith's Home Cookin and ohh my how warm and full the sound is.


 

 You mean, walk the dog? I love to hear Jimmy Smith cookin' on the Hammond B3! May favorite album? The Sermon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got to get the individual track from the film score "The Cat" (1964). It is definitely high octane!


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You mean, walk the dog? I love to hear Jimmy Smith cookin' on the Hammond B3! May favorite album? The Sermon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Me too. But then again i'm a huge sucker for anything with Tina Brooks


----------



## Redcarmoose

musicman59 said:


> I made the decision to buy my WA5-LE when I listen to one with my own T1 and was blown away. The best they have ever sound.





 
 
 I had a feeling about that. Great to hear. Not a combo you read about that often. Congratulations!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Me too. But then again i'm a huge sucker for anything with Tina Brooks


 


  You know, sometimes I'll get in the kitchen to find a dish I can put my foot in. Amazingly, I can line up just a handful of tracks and still cover a 2 hour dish. Man, in the '50's cats would warm up with a 28 minute song before the next one! What an era!


----------



## ardilla

Just want to post some pics of the soon to be released *Woo WA2 TE*-edition:


----------



## Redcarmoose

@ ardilla I think your onto something here. Lets get the prototype over to Jack for an OK. I like black tea better after all these tea drinking years so I'll put my order in for a black one. I hear they are also working on a Johnny Walker model too for the other crowd. It comes in blue, black, red or green. The tubes are square.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





archigius said:


> My Woo Audio 6 SE stopped sounding from the right channel!!!
> 
> I'm terribly sad!!!!
> 
> ...


 
  Can you take the bottom off and take a picture ans post it . maybe it is a bad solder connection or something we can see that is a simple fix so you don't have to
  send it back to the US.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> @ ardilla I think your onto something here. Lets get the prototype over to Jack for an OK. I like black tea better after all these tea drinking years so I'll put my order in for a black one. I hear they are also working on a Johnny Walker model too for the other crowd. It comes in blue, black, red or green. The tubes are square.


----------



## hodgjy

Is that a Svetlana 6N13C power tube?  I bet it pairs well with tea leaves in the other channel.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just want to post some pics of the soon to be released *Woo WA2 TE*-edition:


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just want to post some pics of the soon to be released *Woo WA2 TE*-edition:


 
  OMG! I'm making this my screensaver at work. That's beautiful. Which tea is this? My coworkers always wondered about me. Now they've got to wonder about the company I keep.


----------



## ardilla

Tubes: *6H13C *, 


hodgjy said:


> Is that a Svetlana 6N13C power tube?  I bet it pairs well with tea leaves in the other channel.


 


  Tea: *Tai Ping Hou Kui*
  
  Screensaver: LOL - I can post a high-res version if you're interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OMG! I'm making this my screensaver at work. That's beautiful. Which tea is this? My coworkers always wondered about me. Now they've got to wonder about the company I keep.


----------



## Clayton SF

_*It's time to do a Woo Brew*_ of *Tai Ping Hou Kui*
  


>


 
  Yes. PM me the High-Res if both pictures, please.


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet.  The H and N get mixed up in translations, but they are the same tube.  What are your impressions of that tube?  It has sort of a bum rap around here, but I actually really like it.  It's warm and smooth.  It has a hint of veil, but it is pretty good IMO.
  
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Tubes: *6H13C *,


----------



## ardilla

I like it very much. There are some new 5998 coming in - I'll might post some comments :9
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sweet.  The H and N get mixed up in translations, but they are the same tube.  What are your impressions of that tube?  It has sort of a bum rap around here, but I actually really like it.  It's warm and smooth.  It has a hint of veil, but it is pretty good IMO.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





archigius said:


> My Woo Audio 6 SE stopped sounding from the right channel!!!
> I'm terribly sad!!!!
> When the amp arrived, it showed sometimes a hum in the right channel, but not often.
> Now the right channel makes only a hum and i can't hear any sound!
> I was just listening to music, nothing strange, it did a strong noise and stopped working!!!


 
   
  A couple of years ago, my WA6SE did the same thing.  I removed the bottom plate, and there were a few drops of an oily liquid on the inside of the plate.  One of the capacitors had cracked open on the end, and fluid had leaked out.  I did have to send it in; it was quickly repaired and returned without charge.  I don't have that amp any more, but I remember it was only a few weeks old when the cap blew. 
   
  Hopefully yours is something else, that will not require shipping it halfway around the world.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> A couple of years ago, my WA6SE did the same thing.  I removed the bottom plate, and there were a few drops of an oily liquid on the inside of the plate.  One of the capacitors had cracked open on the end, and fluid had leaked out.  I did have to send it in; it was quickly repaired and returned without charge.  I don't have that amp any more, but I remember it was only a few weeks old when the cap blew.
> 
> Hopefully yours is something else, that will not require shipping it halfway around the world.


 


  Unfortunately i think i'll have to send the amp in the US, the cheapest service available is 130 euro for shippipng and i'll have to do a special autorization at the customs, because i don't want to pay the taxes for the second time.
   
  My WA6 apparentlly does not show any oily liquid, no strange flashes, no bad smell.
  It only emits a low frequency hum, which is non volume-dependant.
  I tried everything:
  swapped tubes, tried different tubes, rectifier, cables, source, power cable,  the problem is always the same.
   
  I'm waiting for instructions from Jack.


----------



## Silent One

archiguis, greetings! is there not a reputable place of electronics you could take it to for inspection?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Can you take the bottom off and take a picture ans post it . maybe it is a bad solder connection or something we can see that is a simple fix so you don't have to
> send it back to the US.


 

 Yes, i think i can do this


----------



## ardilla

Here's pictures of the Woo WA2 TE in 1920 X 1200 (_right click, save link as_)
   
   
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> _*It's time to do a Woo Brew*_ of *Tai Ping Hou Kui*
> 
> Yes. PM me the High-Res if both pictures, please.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> @ ardilla I think your onto something here. Lets get the prototype over to Jack for an OK. I like black tea better after all these tea drinking years so I'll put my order in for a black one. I hear they are also working on a Johnny Walker model too for the other crowd. It comes in blue, black, red or green. The tubes are square.


 


  oh yeah, now we're talkin!  but, ya know, those johnny walkers are nice tubes but i will be immediately rolling-in the fabled macallan oval glass red labels or maybe even an aberlour fat bottle


----------



## archigius

These are the pictures.
  To me, everything seems fine.
   
  The only strange thing that i noticed is that the small metal part at the end of the yellow and blue cables, which connects to the headphones jack are not so "fixed" in the black plastic part, they can slightly move.
   
  In fact, i sometimes had some kind of static noise in the headphone if i did not plug the jack quicky.
   
  Really don't know what this means.
   
  I'm waiting for instructions from Jack, but he hasn't answered yet.
   
  I'm really really sad. This amp costed me a lot of savings and sacrifices and i hoped i did not have problems so soon.
  The amp only has 1 month and 250 hours on it.


----------



## Swatcsi

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I made the decision to buy my WA5-LE when I listen to one with my own T1 and was blown away. The best they have ever sound.


 
   
  Thats good to hear! I'm deciding between the WA5-LE, Liquid Fire, and Zana Deux. Right now im leaning towards the WA5-LE / Zana Deux, still a tough decision as I can't audition any of them.


----------



## john57

archigius
   
  It is okay for some heap hone jacks that the metal part with the wire is a bit loose as long the solder connection is good. The only thing I could see is that the long resistor connection from the volume control output circuit board to the right tube socket connection seems to be off. If you still have the amp apart you could take more pictures of the tube sockets?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





john57 said:


> archigius
> 
> It is okay for some heap hone jacks that the metal part with the wire is a bit loose as long the solder connection is good. The only thing I could see is that the long resistor connection from the volume control output circuit board to the right tube socket connection seems to be off. If you still have the amp apart you could take more pictures of the tube sockets?


 


  At this moment i can't take other picturres, but i can do this tomorrow.
   
  The right channel is just the not working one.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





archigius said:


> At this moment i can't take other picturres, but i can do this tomorrow.
> 
> The right channel is just the not working one.


 

 Can you get more of a close up by the tube sockets and volume control. The tube gets it's grid bias ground through the volume control if you lose this ground you will get a hum
  and the tube will draw excessive current.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Here's pictures of the Woo WA2 TE in 1920 X 1200 (_right click, save link as_)


 

 Thanks. Great camera. Great lighting. Excellent tea!


----------



## Draygonn

Espresso machines

and Tea


Time to open a Woobucks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Espresso machines
> 
> and Tea
> 
> Time to open a Woobucks


 

 +1


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Espresso machines
> 
> and Tea


 
   
  And a Waffle Iron!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Thats good to hear! I'm deciding between the WA5-LE, Liquid Fire, and Zana Deux. Right now im leaning towards the WA5-LE / Zana Deux, still a tough decision as I can't audition any of them.


 

 IMO if you like the very tubey sound go with the ZD but if you like the warmth of tubes combined with dynamics then the WA5-LE. I was fortunate to listen to the ZD and since I come from SS HiFi systems I thought it was too warm for me and when I listen to the the WA5-LE I though it was perfect for me and went with it.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> IMO if you like the very tubey sound go with the ZD but if you like the warmth of tubes combined with dynamics then the WA5-LE. I was fortunate to listen to the ZD and since I come from SS HiFi systems I thought it was too warm for me and when I listen to the the WA5-LE I though it was perfect for me and went with it.


 

  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/456706/11-21-09-newport-beach-ca-meet-impressions-thread
   
  All I can really tell you is at this meet above, after listening to my Woo 5LE with the AH-D7000s we traded in Uncle Eric's Zana Deux, The Zana Deux had the stock tubes that they come with. My LE had the stock tubes that they come with. It was nice to do a back to back demo of each. The one maybe big thing to think about is you can do a complete tube change out on the Zana Deux for very little money spent. I just did a complete re-tube on the LE and even though I didn't go all out the cost was $500.00 usd.
   
  Now speaking of penny pinching when your buying a flagship is maybe a little off? Still it is something to think about. I thought the LE sounded a little better to me but it was my amp, which is normally what people think. Still the sound was very close to a point that I thought I could enjoy owning a Zana Deux as much as the Woo LE. Now the super big question was what happened later after the meet when I learned to change out power cables and RCAs. It took my LE to a whole new level way beyond what the Zana Deux could even get close to there at that meet. Somehow the stock computer power cable was blocking the type of AC the Woo needed to get speedy and fast in response changes. The PRaT changed all together into a different amp with the LE. The big question is if the Zana Deux would do the same? At the meet with the old cables the Zana Deux maybe had a little more lower mid-range detail.But remember were comparing it to the Woo that was power starved at the time. IMO But the mid-range detail I'm sure was bettered by the Woo with the right cables. It really is very close and maybe depends on the sound signature you like and the headphones you use, along with the up-stream source you start with too.


----------



## Swatcsi

Well, I'm new to the whole tube amp thing. I'm leaning towards the Woo, as I'm planning on buying their new CD transport, and was thinking on just buying them together. On the other hand I'm still curious as to how the Liquid Fire and Zana Deux sound. Im going to be using it with a T1 so I hope it synergizes well.
  Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/456706/11-21-09-newport-beach-ca-meet-impressions-thread
> 
> All I can really tell you is at this meet above, after listening to my Woo 5LE with the AH-D7000s we traded in Uncle Eric's Zana Deux, The Zana Deux had the stock tubes that they come with. My LE had the stock tubes that they come with. It was nice to do a back to back demo of each. The one maybe big thing to think about is you can do a complete tube change out on the Zana Deux for very little money spent. I just did a complete re-tube on the LE and even though I didn't go all out the cost was $500.00 usd.
> 
> Now speaking of penny pinching when your buying a flagship is maybe a little off? Still it is something to think about. I thought the LE sounded a little better to me but it was my amp, which is normally what people think. Still the sound was very close to a point that I thought I could enjoy owning a Zana Deux as much as the Woo LE. Now the super big question was what happened later after the meet when I learned to change out power cables and RCAs. It took my LE to a whole new level way beyond what the Zana Deux could even get close to there at that meet. Somehow the stock computer power cable was blocking the type of AC the Woo needed to get speedy and fast in response changes. The PRaT changed all together into a different amp with the LE. The big question is if the Zana Deux would do the same? At the meet with the old cables the Zana Deux maybe had a little more lower mid-range detail.But remember were comparing it to the Woo that was power starved at the time. IMO But the mid-range detail I'm sure was bettered by the Woo with the right cables. It really is very close and maybe depends on the sound signature you like and the headphones you use, along with the up-stream source you start with too.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Well, I'm new to the whole tube amp thing. I'm leaning towards the Woo, as I'm planning on buying their new CD transport, and was thinking on just buying them together. On the other hand I'm still curious as to how the Liquid Fire and Zana Deux sound. Im going to be using it with a T1 so I hope it synergizes well.


 


  You can read how Musicman59 made the right call after hearing the LE/T1 combo. I really know very little about this hobby, but I do know synergy is everything.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> You can read how Musicman59 made the right call after hearing the LE/T1 combo. I really know very little about this hobby, but I do know synergy is everything.


 


  +1


----------



## archigius

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!
   
  A special thank to john57 and 2359glenn. I can't say more.
   
  I can only say that this is really a great audio community, i'm so grateful to those who helped me with this problem!!!
   
  You avoid me lots of concerns and helped to save a lot of money!
   
  Now my T1 is singing again!!!


----------



## Silent One

Great! But, what was the problem?


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great! But, what was the problem?


 


  It was a very small problem, if you want i can tell you more via PM.
   
  But i want really thank john57 and 2359glenn that helped my a lot.


----------



## ardilla

I just could not help myself. Heer's the new *Woo Audio and Tea WA2 Super Edition*
   

   
   
   


Spoiler: 1920X1200%2F1080


----------



## Silent One

*Still to come...*
   
*Rectified! **Which Glass will be the correct partner for the Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231/6SN7GT:*
   
*Emission Labs 5U4G Mesh Plate vs United Electronics Company USAF-596*
   
  I happily received the EML Glass during lunch today (thanks, danska). I'm very excited about tonight's session, which should begin around 2300 hours. Of course, I could get restless and leave the dinner dishes as they were, as if I never ever saw them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... _and get right down to business_.
   
  Let's see what happens! And a special note to all Bay-siders attending the Bay Area Head-Fi meet today in Northern California.


----------



## Rawrbington

Ardilla
  what tubes are in the Woo?
  i spy the 5998s on top but what is currently in it?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





archigius said:


> It was a very small problem, if you want i can tell you more via PM.
> 
> But i want really thank john57 and 2359glenn that helped my a lot.


 


  Message acknowledged. Cheers to john57 and 2359glenn!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





archigius said:


> PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!


 
  RIGHT ON!
  hooray!


----------



## ardilla

6H13C's are in the output sockets. The 5998 is currently taking care of the tea 
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Ardilla
> what tubes are in the Woo?
> i spy the 5998s on top but what is currently in it?


----------



## ardilla

Thanks  Camera is D7000. Lighting is a special blend of sun coming through clouds and window. 
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks. Great camera. Great lighting. Excellent tea!


----------



## Rawrbington

so i've been spending a lot of time with my vintage receivers for the last week or 2, giving the WA2 a much deserved break.
  finally fired it up tonight and jeeez.  it just not close.  The vintages sound very nice with the headphones but...  its just not a fair comparison. 
  the woo just has so much authority and sweet sweet tone.  and to think for the last week i'd been questioning if i overpaid for it.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hey Redcar:
   
  I am interested to know what RCA cables and Power cords you upgraded to, that improved the sound?
   
  I just recently purchased a WA5 (non LE) and have upgraded the USB cord from my Mac mini to the Calyx DAC and it did wonders to the sound. I have a set of VH Audio interconnects that I just purchased from Antonyfirst here on Head-fi, hopefully will be in next week to audition. I still have not ordered any power cords yet, still using a generic computer cord. Would like to upgrade this also but am not sure which would be the best bang for the buck?
   
  I have purchase a number of pairs of 300B tubes, and they do change the sound signature/sound stage significantly. Amp came with the Electro-Harmonix. I then tried the JJ Electric 300B's. After which I ordered the AVVT 300B's which were the best of these. This week however I got an excellent deal on a quad set of lightly used Sophia Royal Princess which are outstanding. The chap I purchased these from also threw in a quad set of used Sophia Princess Carbon Plates. The Carbon plates are on par with the AVVT's, although the AVVT's were ordered new and perhaps have not fully burned in. The Royals are without question the best 300B tubes I have heard.
   
  Thanks.
   
  Rumble
  Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/456706/11-21-09-newport-beach-ca-meet-impressions-thread
> 
> All I can really tell you is at this meet above, after listening to my Woo 5LE with the AH-D7000s we traded in Uncle Eric's Zana Deux, The Zana Deux had the stock tubes that they come with. My LE had the stock tubes that they come with. It was nice to do a back to back demo of each. The one maybe big thing to think about is you can do a complete tube change out on the Zana Deux for very little money spent. I just did a complete re-tube on the LE and even though I didn't go all out the cost was $500.00 usd.
> 
> Now speaking of penny pinching when your buying a flagship is maybe a little off? Still it is something to think about. I thought the LE sounded a little better to me but it was my amp, which is normally what people think. Still the sound was very close to a point that I thought I could enjoy owning a Zana Deux as much as the Woo LE. Now the super big question was what happened later after the meet when I learned to change out power cables and RCAs. It took my LE to a whole new level way beyond what the Zana Deux could even get close to there at that meet. Somehow the stock computer power cable was blocking the type of AC the Woo needed to get speedy and fast in response changes. The PRaT changed all together into a different amp with the LE. The big question is if the Zana Deux would do the same? At the meet with the old cables the Zana Deux maybe had a little more lower mid-range detail.But remember were comparing it to the Woo that was power starved at the time. IMO But the mid-range detail I'm sure was bettered by the Woo with the right cables. It really is very close and maybe depends on the sound signature you like and the headphones you use, along with the up-stream source you start with too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> so i've been spending a lot of time with my vintage receivers for the last week or 2, giving the WA2 a much deserved break.
> finally fired it up tonight and jeeez.  it just not close.  The vintages sound very nice with the headphones but...  its just not a fair comparison.
> the woo just has so much authority and sweet sweet tone.  and to think for the last week i'd been questioning if i overpaid for it.


 

 Which vintage receiver?


----------



## Rawrbington

pioneer sx 950/650 and the yamaha cr 640
   
  interestingly enough i think the 650 has the best HP jack out of all of them.
  and that thing is a dog.
   
  im guessing its due to it being the lowest powered amp and so the output resistor on the hp jack is the smallest(lowest imp)
   
  but my guess is the 950 will sound really good with some orthos...   
   
  i hope!
   
  the 950 does sound great with my speakers though.  and i've got a TT on the way, hopefully the phono stage on it is strong too


----------



## Rumbleripper

I to was swayed by Musicman59's review of his black beauty and that is why I purchased the WA5 also. So far I have absolutely no regrets.  It is better than my WA22 without question. Only thing left now is to get some better cables and see where it goes from there.
   
  My LCD-3's sound wonderful out of this amp, I do not hear any "veil" at all, they are better than my LCD-2 for sure.
   

  
  Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> You can read how Musicman59 made the right call after hearing the LE/T1 combo. I really know very little about this hobby, but I do know synergy is everything.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> pioneer sx 950/650 and the yamaha cr 640
> 
> interestingly enough i think the 650 has the best HP jack out of all of them.
> and that thing is a dog.
> ...


 

 Cool...thanks.


----------



## Silent One

*R.I.P. Whitney Houston. *_You were quite the inspiration..._
   
_edit.: So that my words above are not misconstrued, I mean so in a positive light - her abilities and accomplishments._


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> I to was swayed by Musicman59's review of his black beauty and that is why I purchased the WA5 also. So far I have absolutely no regrets.  It is better than my WA22 without question. Only thing left now is to get some better cables and see where it goes from there.
> 
> My LCD-3's sound wonderful out of this amp, I do not hear any "veil" at all, they are better than my LCD-2 for sure.


 

 I am using Wireworld Eclipse 6 interconnects and Wireworld Electra 5.2 power cord with excellent results. I am also using the Zeus headphones cable which is made out of the WW Eclipse 6 internal wires.
  I am auditioning a pair of LCD-3 with the Zeus right now. They are in the burn-in process. Unfortunately this pair is one of those that sound "veil". The Zeus helped and I hope the burn-in will help more but it is clear to me that they do not sound the same as the ones I listened to at RMAF in October.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am using Wireworld Eclipse 6 interconnects and Wireworld Electra 5.2 power cord with excellent results. I am also using the Zeus headphones cable which is made out of the WW Eclipse 6 internal wires.
> I am auditioning a pair of LCD-3 with the Zeus right now. They are in the burn-in process. Unfortunately this pair is one of those that sound "veil". The Zeus helped and I hope the burn-in will help more but it is clear to me that they do not sound the same as the ones I listened to at RMAF in October.


 

 Quick question, would you consider the LCD-2 (either revision) veiled too? If so, could be that you're just used to the HE-6's brighter presentation? I think that they are less veiled than the r.1 or r.2 LCD-2, but the HE-6s are certainly more forward in the upper mids (1-3kHz). That's just the way it is. Some really like this presentation (like myself) and some prefer the brighter, more forward sound.


----------



## Rawrbington

is the sound of hte lcd2 a little bit similar to the hd 650?


----------



## Silent One

The question I'd like to ask, in regards to Aude'ze, is one of production. From reading several posts by owners all over the Net, it seems that even within the same model number, LCD's vary greatly  in how they sound. This, compared to feedback of production runs from other makers.
   
  Fair assessment or nothing to it?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> I to was swayed by Musicman59's review of his black beauty and that is why I purchased the WA5 also. So far I have absolutely no regrets.  It is better than my WA22 without question. Only thing left now is to get some better cables and see where it goes from there.
> 
> My LCD-3's sound wonderful out of this amp, I do not hear any "veil" at all, they are better than my LCD-2 for sure.


 


   
   
  My two cents is try a bunch of both power cables and RCAs. If your system responds anything like mine did you will be completely dumbfounded. For me anyway, it was like having different equipment.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *R.I.P. Whitney Houston. *_You were quite the inspiration..._
> 
> _edit.: So that my words above are not misconstrued, I mean so in a positive light - her abilities and accomplishments._


 


  Saw that...shocking! She had an incredible talent no doubt.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The question I'd like to ask, in regards to Aude'ze, is one of production. From reading several posts by owners all over the Net, it seems that even within the same model number, LCD's vary greatly  in how they sound. This, compared to feedback of production runs from other makers.
> 
> Fair assessment or nothing to it?


 


  I think that's one of the dirty little secret of many headphones around here...they all sound slightly different from each other. One of the things that Tyll and I want to do is explore this a bit more too. But with regards to Audeze, there was a case where one owner (a really good guy BTW) had 2 pairs of LCD-3s. One was brilliant and the other sounded a bit veiled in direct comparison. The veiled version was then sent to another member (WarriorAnt) and he confirmed that it sounded veiled next to his LCD-2 r.2.
   
  The funny thing was that many of us have A-B'd the LCD-3s to LCD-2 (r.2) and this was not the case. So for the past few weeks, there's been some discussion. However, tonight he owner of both pairs mentioned to me that the veiled pair's earpads were:
   
_"the pads on the veiled pair were considerably softer than the ones on the alleged good pair, almost to the point that they'd slip off my ears. In the end it all may be a pad/seal/seating issue."_
   
  So the differences were most likely caused by the difference in earpads. I'm not surprised by this as when I've changed earpads from my D7000s (stock to J$ pads) or on my HE-6s (stock to leather stock) the sound signatures changed quite a bit.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> So the differences were most likely caused by the difference in earpads.


 

 Hopefully it is as simple as this, but why the variance in earpads with a $2k headphone that shares a design heritage with previous models. The earpads should have been sorted out before now.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hopefully it is as simple as this, but why the variance in earpads with a $2k headphone that shares a design heritage with previous models. The earpads should have been sorted out before now.


 

 Agreed.
   
  The LCD-2 pads are pretty full, so it seems easier for an operator to stuff them full. But the LCD-3's earpads are partially filled. I think that may be the problem...how full is full when its supposed to be part way?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quick question, would you consider the LCD-2 (either revision) veiled too? If so, could be that you're just used to the HE-6's brighter presentation? I think that they are less veiled than the r.1 or r.2 LCD-2, but the HE-6s are certainly more forward in the upper mids (1-3kHz). That's just the way it is. Some really like this presentation (like myself) and some prefer the brighter, more forward sound.


 


  I have not listened to the Rev 2 but compared to the Rev 1 no, they are not as veil. The Rev 1 was too dark for me that's why I was never even tempted to buy them but when I listened to the LCD-3 for the first time at RMAF I was blown away and immediately got the urge to get them. These ones do not sound the same and I don't get that same feeling from RMAF. Next Saturday we have a meet here in Detroit at Jude's office and I know that at least there is going to be one more pair (Jude's) so it is going to be interesting to make an A/B comparison. I know Jude thinks his are top notch just short to the SR-009 so will see.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have not listened to the Rev 2 but compared to the Rev 1 no, they are not as veil. The Rev 1 was too dark for me that's why I was never even tempted to buy them but when I listened to the LCD-3 for the first time at RMAF I was blown away and immediately got the urge to get them. These ones do not sound the same and I don't get that same feeling from RMAF. Next Saturday we have a meet here in Detroit at Jude's office and I know that at least there is going to be one more pair (Jude's) so it is going to be interesting to make an A/B comparison. I know Jude thinks his are top notch just short to the SR-009 so will see.


 

 Sounds like your pair of LCD-3s is just as they have all sounded since 11-11-11. Rob (Skylab) was also at RMAF and he never mentioned a difference between that pair and the pair he got a week or two later to review. He ended up buying the review pair.
   
  Have fun at the meet and please say hi to Jude.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The LCD-2 pads are pretty full, so it seems easier for an operator to stuff them full. But the LCD-3's earpads are partially filled. I think that may be the problem...how full is full when its supposed to be part way?


 

 The pads in the pair I have here are way too soft to the point they feel strange. I would like them just a little bit more full or stiffer. If my memory serves me well I think the pads on the pair I audition at RMAF were more full and I loved that sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The LCD-2 pads are pretty full, so it seems easier for an operator to stuff them full. But the LCD-3's earpads are partially filled. I think that may be the problem...how full is full when its supposed to be part way?


 


  Thanks for the reply. The pad variance makes sense. And to grokit's point, although the LCD-3's are designed with softer pads, this speaks to "Quality Assurance." Aude'ze would be wise to improve this part of the production chain - it matters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> The pads in the pair I have here are way too soft to the point they feel strange. I would like them just a little bit more full or stiffer. If my memory serves me well I think the pads on the pair I audition at RMAF were more full and I loved that sound.


 

 I think Aude'ze is still trying to find an optimal fill level for the pads. I would not be surprised if this variance was _prototype by design_, aimed at generating real world feedback. With fixed changes to come in the second half of 2012. Why hold up sales, when you could tweak on the fly?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am using Wireworld Eclipse 6 interconnects and Wireworld Electra 5.2 power cord with excellent results. I am also using the Zeus headphones cable which is made out of the WW Eclipse 6 internal wires.
> I am auditioning a pair of LCD-3 with the Zeus right now. They are in the burn-in process. Unfortunately this pair is one of those that sound "veil". The Zeus helped and I hope the burn-in will help more but it is clear to me that they do not sound the same as the ones I listened to at RMAF in October.


 

 I absolutely love my Wireworld candy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - Eclipse 6, Electra 5* & Zeus cabling...


----------



## Silent One

MacedonianHero; musicman59-
   
  I'm still on the fence with getting J$ pads for my D7000's. I believe the stock pads are holding up ok @ 9 months; 1,043 hours. I'm actually concerned the pads may alter the sound in a way I don't like. A big deal since I'm "Yobless," as J-Rome would say. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I really like the pads on the LCD-2. Too hard and uncomfortable for some, but I'd adapt them if I could to the Denon's.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Still to come...*
> 
> *Rectified! **Which Glass will be the correct partner for the Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231/6SN7GT:*
> 
> ...


 


*Questions? I've got answers!*_ The verdict came down moments ago and came quickly... including a recount. _While it was fun to compare and contrast the two Recs, it was never close! To be fair, the Emission Labs 5U4G is a fine piece of glass to have in one's system. 
   
  I made observations in two separate sessions some seven hours apart - before dinner and after midnight. In my system, the _Mighty 596_ simply brought more to the dance floor; made a better dance partner for the storied and much heralded Tung-Sol BGRP's. 
   
  No need for me to hang a laundry list, just pick one. Any quality or characteristic - where ever the EML did good, the '596' did better. Had I never heard of or sought the _Mighty 596, _I would have been content. Originally, I thought the Tung-Sol's made a better pairing with the departing EML Glass. This is because they were more forgiving of the short-comings the Tung-Sol's displayed.
   
  At first listen, The Tung-Sol's exhibited poor clarity, depth, timbre, detail, air, decay and such. Clearly, something was wrong! I then swapped out the '596' for the departing EML. The faults remained but less so. This falsely led me to believe the EML was the better pairing for the Tung-Sol's. I also remained suspicious of the tubes. 
   
  A few weeks later and no improvement. I was disappointed!!! The wonderful membership here sensed that, but also sensed there was something wrong. My Ray's were kicking them up and down the street... at a much lower cost! This did not sit well with me. I appreciate jc9394 and xcalibur255's patience with getting me to remain patient. Honestly, they almost got returned even with a 20% restocking fee - I wouldn't have cared, just get 'em out of here!




   
  I decided to look elsewhere in the system and reexamined my digital cables. I really like what I had quality wise but wisely decided to question their length for my system. Because I knew different types of cables have optimum lengths - digital, analogue ect, But I couldn't remember what was what, so I asked an expert engineer and audio designer. 
   
  Financially, I made out very well - both USB & Coax cables were new. Saved on going with the shorter USB, which then was offset with the longer Coax cable. But it was the sound - it took the *TS-BGRP/USAF-596* pairing to another level entirely. Everything cleared up - it was immediate, the Coax was isn't broken in yet! Detail and refinement in spades and 3D to boot!
   
  I rightly predicted before getting the EML back in that my cable adjustment would get all of the credit for the turn-a-round. And that buying the EML back may not change anything. I'll likely list it again for sale later this week. The EML 5U4G is a tube worth having - a very fine sounding tube. However, it was no accident that I originally "dubbed" the United Electronics Company USAF-596 the _Mighty 596! _




   
  Having rectified all of this, I can return to enjoying the music...
   
   
  Cable description: cables supplied by Aphrodite Cu 29.
   
  WireWorld Digital Audio Interconnect 
 Silver Starlight 6 OCC Silver-Clad Copper 


 WireWorld USB Digital Audio Cable
 Silver Starlight 6 OFC Silver-Clad Copper


----------



## grokit

Quote:


silent one said:


> Having *rectified* all of this, I can return to enjoying the music...


 

 Heh heh, I get it...thanks for sharing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But I couldn't remember what was what, so I asked an expert engineer and audio designer.


 

 SilentOne-san: Thank you for an excellent review. For the edification of the people at home, can you share the cable lengths that were recommended by the Expert®?
   
  I believe I've read that a digital-audio interconnect should be no shorter than 1.5 meters, and that with a USB the shorter the better. Comments, kind sir?


----------



## kchew

Speaking of LCD-2's, are there any tube recommendations for LCD-2v2 and WA22? My friend loaned me his Audeze recently, and so far I like the Mullard ECC32 with Tung Sol 7236 combination. This LCD-2 does sound a little veiled though, so I'm not sure if more tuberolling might make it sound any better.
   
  And Silent One, the good news is my metal-based GZ34 has arrived in the mail. The bad news is I loaned my HD800 to the friend with the LCD-2 before the GZ34 arrived, so there goes my reference point for two weeks...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> SilentOne-san: Thank you for an excellent review. For the edification of the people at home, can you share the cable lengths that were recommended by the Expert®?
> 
> I believe I've read that a digital-audio interconnect should be no shorter than 1.5 meters, and that with a USB the shorter the better. Comments, kind sir?


 

 This is correct. I mentioned this a few days back. But with the speed of this thread, that could be w-a-y- back! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you brought it to my attention because my next research effort shall see me attempt getting a generic 6" USB cable to sound good. As opposed to a longer and higher quality cable. Because I am using a USBridge, I can stack that sucker real close.
   
  Also, I wanted to get a 6" high quality USB cable but Wireworld stops at 0.5 Meters. And I like Wireworld candy, so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I brought it home! And my Coax is rightfully 1.5 Meters. Hope you're having a most brilliant weekend down that way! Almost forgot, if people are wondering about the rhyme & reason for a digital cable's length, the link below could lend more behind the theory why many S/PDIF cables may be too short.
   
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Speaking of LCD-2's, are there any tube recommendations for LCD-2v2 and WA22? My friend loaned me his Audeze recently, and so far I like the Mullard ECC32 with Tung Sol 7236 combination. This LCD-2 does sound a little veiled though, so I'm not sure if more tuberolling might make it sound any better.
> 
> And Silent One, the good news is my metal-based GZ34 has arrived in the mail. The bad news is I loaned my HD800 to the friend with the LCD-2 before the GZ34 arrived, so there goes my reference point for two weeks...


 

 That's nothing. You could have loaned the HD800 to me out here in California and risked it getting tied up in Customs... coming and going! Ok, let's think positive so that kind of thing doesn't happen. Waiting will be no trouble at all. Since working out my Tung-Sol/596 pairing, I'm no longer pressing for that back up rectifier. But still curious!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That's nothing. You could have loaned the HD800 to me out here in California and risked it getting tied up in Customs... coming and going! Ok, let's think positive so that kind of thing doesn't happen. Waiting will be no trouble at all. Since working out my Tung-Sol/596 pairing, I'm no longer pressing for that back up rectifier. But still curious!


 

 I was in California last December for a vacation. Spent two full days in SF and seven in SF. My first time in the US of A and I'd love to come back soon. But bringing headphones and amps all the way from South East Asia is a bit too much for me to stomach. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  From initial impressions, the GZ34, both black and metal base versions, wouldn't be dethroning the mighty 596. The European tubes have smaller soundstages and the bass doesn't reach as low or punch as hard. But it is a great rectifier for rocking out.. 596 handles most genres very nicely, plus my family members think it looks cute heh.


----------



## sunmonkey

Thanks, SilentOne. I try to stay on top of this forum in particular, but have been a skosh busy this week. Apologies for the repetition.
   
  Eh, the repetition helps me burn all these audio bits onto my nogular EPROM. Hopefully others benefit as well.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> MacedonianHero; musicman59-
> 
> I'm still on the fence with getting J$ pads for my D7000's. I believe the stock pads are holding up ok @ 9 months; 1,043 hours. I'm actually concerned the pads may alter the sound in a way I don't like. A big deal since I'm "Yobless," as J-Rome would say.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Silent One,
  I like the JMoney pads much better than the stock ones. I think they are closer in the design to the LCD-2 that you like than the stock. Even that they are thinker they are firm not even close to the softness of the LCD-3 pads. IMO they do change the sound a little bit but to my tasted for the good. I think the bass got tighter and with more control and speed but to me the biggest change is in the mid range area. Like some people I always thought the mids were kind of recessed and these pads bring them forward a little bit IMO making the sound more balanced.
   
  Does anybody know what happened with JMoney? I tried to go to his website and it is telling me it is suspended.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Hi Silent One,
> I like the JMoney pads much better than the stock ones. I think they are closer in the design to the LCD-2 that you like than the stock. Even that they are thinker they are firm not even close to the softness of the LCD-3 pads. IMO they do change the sound a little bit but to my tasted for the good. I think the bass got tighter and with more control and speed but to me the biggest change is in the mid range area. Like some people I always thought the mids were kind of recessed and these pads bring them forward a little bit IMO making the sound more balanced.
> 
> Does anybody know what happened with JMoney? I tried to go to his website and it is telling me it is suspended.


 


  Hmmm... I see that other members discussed the suspension of his site as well, on 12 January. His last post reveals he's a volunteer archaeologist and traveled to Europe for another dig. unlike others, I am not troubled by a reserved mid-range, as long as it's not too much. Any less recessed and I doubt I would like the D7000. Music genre plays a big part in this preference.
   
  I'm going to hop over to Lawton Audio and have a look at some pads.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Sunday :
   
  headphone anxiety 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  been 2 weeks now without my T1...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Thanks, SilentOne. I try to stay on top of this forum in particular, but have been a skosh busy this week. Apologies for the repetition.
> 
> Eh, the repetition helps me burn all these audio bits onto my nogular EPROM. Hopefully others benefit as well.


 

 No apologies necessary. You are kind... _and considerate. _What would audio be like, and the discussion of audio be like, without feedback? Your post made me realize I omitted an important detail about my desire to experiment with a generic 6" USB cable. _One that has the power and ground cables cut or eliminated_. This is to improve galvanic isolation. But can only work if one's DAC can power its own USB receiving unit. 
   
  Not sure why so many strangers try to convince me that USB cables don't matter; they're a waste of money; generic computer & peripheral USB cables are just as good. No argument from me. I love to hear of other's satisfaction in this hobby.


----------



## Zombie_X

Sorry to hear that DG. You'll get them soon enough though.
   
  In other Woo Audio related stuff, I had my friend put all the stock parts back in and there is a difference. The difference between modded and non modded is not giant, but is there. Maybe I'll keep it stock and sell it. I do need the money..
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Sunday :
> 
> headphone anxiety
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Sunday :
> 
> headphone anxiety
> 
> ...


 


  I was unaware of your separation. Is this due to hitting the books, loaned them out or sent them out for repair? Hours earlier, I discovered the EML pairing was unable to displace the current USAF pairing with my Tung-Sols.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Sorry to hear that DG. You'll get them soon enough though.
> 
> In other Woo Audio related stuff, I had my friend put all the stock parts back in and there is a difference. The difference between modded and non modded is not giant, but is there. Maybe I'll keep it stock and sell it. I do need the money..


 

 If I may ask, what was the reasoning behind returning the unit to stock only to sell it? Curiously, what would it take to send the unit down the street? If you could share on the other side (PM), that would be great!


----------



## Zombie_X

Well returning it to stock wasn't for selling it. I wanted to hear how the stock form sounded again. Then I realized the claims I made about it being much better with the new parts was not true.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I may ask, what was the reasoning behind returning the unit to stock only to sell it? Curiously, what would it take to send the unit down the street? If you could share on the other side (PM), that would be great!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> MacedonianHero; musicman59-
> 
> I'm still on the fence with getting J$ pads for my D7000's. I believe the stock pads are holding up ok @ 9 months; 1,043 hours. I'm actually concerned the pads may alter the sound in a way I don't like. A big deal since I'm "Yobless," as J-Rome would say.
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Hi Silent One,
> I like the JMoney pads much better than the stock ones. I think they are closer in the design to the LCD-2 that you like than the stock. Even that they are thinker they are firm not even close to the softness of the LCD-3 pads. IMO they do change the sound a little bit but to my tasted for the good. I think the bass got tighter and with more control and speed but to me the biggest change is in the mid range area. Like some people I always thought the mids were kind of recessed and these pads bring them forward a little bit IMO making the sound more balanced.
> 
> Does anybody know what happened with JMoney? I tried to go to his website and it is telling me it is suspended.


 

 Like musicman59 stated, I think that the J$ pads with the D7000s are also much better than the stock pads. I found that the bass did tighten up as well and the mids were brought more forward (also a good thing with these cans). Completely agreed with musicman59 here too.
   
  Finding them though...seems they have gone out of business.


----------



## shipsupt

I too have liked the change J$ pads offer, but to be clear these changes are very subtle, don't exepct some huge smack you in the face difference.  Comfort is better too, not that the stock pads were all that bad.
   
  I was able to find a pair at HeadRoom some time back, but I don't think they are in stock there now.
   
  I placed a pre-order for the Lawton angle pads as I'm curious to see if they the consistancy of the amount of packing between pads is better... My current left and right are slightly, very slightly, off... but enough that I notice it sometimes.
   
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Like musicman59 stated, I think that the J$ pads with the D7000s are also much better than the stock pads. I found that the bass did tighten up as well and the mids were brought more forward (also a good thing with these cans). Completely agreed with musicman59 here too.
> 
> Finding them though...seems they have gone out of business.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I too have liked the change J$ pads offer, but to be clear these changes are very subtle, don't exepct some huge smack you in the face difference.  Comfort is better too, not that the stock pads were all that bad.
> 
> I was able to find a pair at HeadRoom some time back, but I don't think they are in stock there now.
> 
> I placed a pre-order for the Lawton angle pads as I'm curious to see if they the consistancy of the amount of packing between pads is better... My current left and right are slightly, very slightly, off... but enough that I notice it sometimes.


 


  Agreed they didn't make the D7000s sound like HD600, but a good tweak in a positive direction IMO. FWIW, I also found the isolation a bit better with the J$ pads.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I too have liked the change J$ pads offer, but to be clear these changes are very subtle, don't exepct some huge smack you in the face difference.  Comfort is better too, not that the stock pads were all that bad.
> 
> I was able to find a pair at HeadRoom some time back, but I don't think they are in stock there now.
> 
> I placed a pre-order for the Lawton angle pads as I'm curious to see if they the consistancy of the amount of packing between pads is better... My current left and right are slightly, very slightly, off... but enough that I notice it sometimes.


 

 Earlier this evening, I noticed the pads on sale at Lawton Audio. Can't wait to get your impressions when they launch. I'm thinking the ops out of LA may have driven competition out the way some. Good thing pads as tweaks are reversable, I don't want my mids really coming forward by much.
   
  Great meet, by the way!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I was unaware of your separation. Is this due to hitting the books, loaned them out or sent them out for repair? Hours earlier, I discovered the EML pairing was unable to displace the current USAF pairing with my Tung-Sols.


 


  repair, remember i sat on them?  LOL


----------



## Rawrbington

oh no!
   
  where did you have to send them off to?
  new york?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

something like that. i forgot lol. 
   
  i haven't listened to the t1 in a while, but im stronglly considering selling my SR325 and HD 650 as well as my k701. i don't know if i can buy an hd 800 with that though. maybe if i add the dt 990 - 600 to that. but meh, i don't know right now.
   
   
  or i might just save up and buy another pair of headphones just for fun, i like listening with different sound signatures, its kinda addicting, kinda like purses and shoes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  i want hd 800 and edition 8 soon though (guess im kinda following in MH's footsteps lol)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> repair, remember i sat on them?  LOL


 

 I'm sorry, I do not recall your sitting on them... while tracking like NORAD across three screens. You seem like you'd be an outstanding gamer though, if that's any consolation.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah, i lleft them on my desk and i guess they fell into my chair (must of pulled on cord or something when i was walking around). so then i ended up not seeing them when i came back to sit down.
   
  it hurt pretty bad, and then i freaked out when i saw the metal frame completely bent up


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i want hd 800 and edition 8 soon though (guess im kinda following in MH's footsteps lol)


 


  The HD800s have become my favorite headphones for jazz hands down. The last four nights I was using my T1's which are also quite enjoyable. However, as I am typing this I am listening to Dexter Gordon's Ca'Purange with the HD800s and it's heavenly.
   
  I've never heard the Edition 8 which is probably a good thing. Last thing I need to do is drop some more money on headphones. I keep buying vinyl. Haven't turned on a DAC in weeks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> The HD800s have become my favorite headphones for jazz hands down. The last four nights I was using my T1's which are also quite enjoyable. However, as I am typing this I am listening to Dexter Gordon's Ca'Purange with the HD800s and it's heavenly.
> 
> I've never heard the Edition 8 which is probably a good thing. Last thing I need to do is drop some more money on headphones. I keep buying vinyl. Haven't turned on a DAC in weeks!


 

 I'm a witness, PanamaRed. You've been playing some great vinyl over there lately! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I did some heavy tube rolling overnight, Fri/Sat, and took a much needed break last night. But I stayed up anyway. Just finished breakfast and playing a fantastic digital track before going to bed next hour - "Save Your Love For Me."
   
  It's from the highly regarded Capitol Records 1961 Studio album - Canonball Adderley & Quintet _featuring _Nancy Wilson. By chance, do you have it? If not, you may want to put it atop your list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I actually have the album in storage. I inherited from Pops. But I've got no incentive to take it out - has more scratches than Flash ever did, while cuttin' his teeth in The Bronx! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I too, will be in the hunt for another copy eventually. But even if you decide not to buy, listening to the leading track on the album is a must.
   
  The LP has wide dynamic range. Nancy puts on a masterful display of pitch, tone and control. Playfully interacting with Canonball's horn, teasing the listener with soft and trailing phrases, only to deliver a surge of sugar in the very next phrase in a voice easily heard. The whole sitting forward to catch every soft nuance she utters, only to fall back with comfort in the seductive notes that follow, is refreshing.
   
  This is the kind of stuff that seems to be missing in today's popular recordings. A singer with the ability to hold your attention? Who knew?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Woo deserves the best, but I cannot locate a Japanese Mini-sleeve import version of the album. And I lack a TT of the Rega P5's quality, so I'll have to stay digital on this one.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Questions? I've got answers!*_ The verdict came down moments ago and came quickly... including a recount. _While it was fun to compare and contrast the two Recs, it was never close! To be fair, the Emission Labs 5U4G is a fine piece of glass to have in one's system.
> 
> I made observations in two separate sessions some seven hours apart - before dinner and after midnight. In my system, the _Mighty 596_ simply brought more to the dance floor; made a better dance partner for the storied and much heralded Tung-Sol BGRP's.
> 
> ...


 

 From the info you received from your audio engineering friend, what are the optimal lengths for different types of cables.. it would be nice to know


----------



## john57

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I've never heard the Edition 8 which is probably a good thing. Last thing I need to do is drop some more money on headphones. I keep buying vinyl. Haven't turned on a DAC in weeks!


 


 You are not missing anything not trying the Edition 8, in my view the headphones you have are great.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> From the info you received from your audio engineering friend, what are the optimal lengths for different types of cables.. it would be nice to know


 


  [size=medium]_PFO _Audio Discourse: Why longer is generally better for an S/PDIF Digital Cable[/size]
 [size=x-small]_by Steve Nugent_[/size]
   
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm
   
   
  Greetings Ahzari ~
   
  A couple of things. Many tweaks, if not all of them, are system dependent. And this one happened to work in my system. I have not done the math - how many can or would, to prove this theory valid? What I do know is with my previous top tubes, the Raytheon 6SN7W/WGT-1949's, didn't really show any signs of a clouding, confusion or lack of refinement in the mid-range.
   
  Only when I introduced the Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates did I pull up curbside - _"Uh-oh, something ain't right!" _The RCA Grey Glass showed none of these bad attributes either. What's more, there was no need to A/B - running a "Hot swap" I simply stuck the little one in there and _Bang! _It was immediately apparent... with a brand new cable... with zero hours on it! The expression of Al Jarreau's vocals came across just fine.
   
  Haven't looked back! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  With USB cables, it's been proven the shorter, the better. And I'd like to point out, for me some of the best tweaks range from free to under a $100. To try this S/PDIF theory only cost another $50 for the additional 0.50 Meter length. Which was then offset by exchanging in a shorter USB digital cable - pretty much a wash for me. How could I not try this?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These TS-BGRP's are the real deal! They're the only tube in my collection that exposed a system liability. And to think, I came v-e-r-y close to sending 'em down the street - my initial experience with 'em were that bad!!!


----------



## Ahzari

Thanks for the info Silent One.
   
  By the way I'm just running my power cable to a serge protector, is there a better way to do it?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thanks for the info Silent One.
> 
> By the way I'm just running my power cable to a serge protector, is there a better way to do it?


 

 Absolutely! Depending on one's budget and target goals, there's several options. A few current posters to this thread have even worked in the Power Conditioning industry. Some use isolation transformers with or without other AC remedies. Me? I'm a poor. And have chosen to go with an APC Power Conditioner with surge protection. Different manufacturer's sometimes target different areas for AC treatment. And this can affect the quality of your audio. I mention this so you can be careful to compare apples to apples, not oranges when shopping.
   
  I should qualify my opening by stating, I've no idea what your reality is for clean AC. Some residences have it cleaner or dirtier than others. Then there's the matter of interference inside the listening room - what kind and how much is in yours? I simply don't know. But do want to encourage you to identify problems and look at options to address them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not going to be a _one size fits all _solution.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's from the highly regarded Capitol Records 1961 Studio album - Canonball Adderley & Quintet _featuring _Nancy Wilson. By chance, do you have it? If not, you may want to put it atop your list.


 
   
  Thanks for the recommendation SilentOne. It's definetely on the list now. I'm a big Adderley fan and am in desperate need of more of his albums. Many thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Thanks for the recommendation SilentOne. It's definetely on the list now. I'm a big Adderley fan and am in desperate need of more of his albums. Many thanks.


 


  Should we find ourselves inside Amoeba Records on Sunset, reaching for the sole remaining copy of "Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderley" at the same time, I will gracefully step back.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Should we find ourselves inside Amoeba Records on Sunset, reaching for the sole remaining copy of "Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderley" at the same time, I will gracefully step back.


 

 Haha, good deal. I was at Amoeba last week. Didn't get anything but they price vinyl pretty reasonably most of the time. If you ever get a chance check out the Orange County Record Show or the record vendors at the Pasadena Flea Market. The O.C.R.S. can get annoying because in reality late arrival is early admission (7:00 a.m.) when you consider the fact that Japanese dealers are clearing out vendors in the parking lot at 5:00.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Haha, good deal. I was at Amoeba last week. Didn't get anything but they price vinyl pretty reasonably most of the time. If you ever get a chance check out the Orange County Record Show or the record vendors at the Pasadena Flea Market. The O.C.R.S. can get annoying because in reality late arrival is early admission (7:00 a.m.) when you consider the fact that Japanese dealers are clearing out vendors in the parking lot at 5:00.


 


  I miss making those Friday night runs on The Sunset Strip, hitting Virgin Megastore and Tower Records! I'm trying really hard to avoid vinyl until I have all the necessary components in place for maintenance. For me, that's the BIG plastic elephant in the room... or vinyl, I don't judge.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I miss making those Friday night runs on The Sunset Strip, hitting Virgin Megastore and Tower Records! I'm trying really hard to avoid vinyl until I have all the necessary components in place for maintenance. For me, that's the BIG plastic elephant in the room... or vinyl, I don't judge.


 


  Very true. With vinyl you really need a vacuum based cleaning system otherwise you are just throwing money away.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely! Depending on one's budget and target goals, there's several options. A few current posters to this thread have even worked in the Power Conditioning industry. Some use isolation transformers with or without other AC remedies. Me? I'm a poor. And have chosen to go with an APC Power Conditioner with surge protection. Different manufacturer's sometimes target different areas for AC treatment. And this can affect the quality of your audio. I mention this so you can be careful to compare apples to apples, not oranges when shopping.
> 
> I should qualify my opening by stating, I've no idea what your reality is for clean AC. Some residences have it cleaner or dirtier than others. Then there's the matter of interference inside the listening room - what kind and how much is in yours? I simply don't know. But do want to encourage you to identify problems and look at options to address them.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think I need to start saving up again... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, my recent ultrasone signature pro purchase cleared the "hobby account" haha ..


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I think I need to start saving up again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely! Depending on one's budget and target goals, there's several options. A few current posters to this thread have even worked in the Power Conditioning industry. Some use isolation transformers with or without other AC remedies. Me? I'm a poor. And have chosen to go with an APC Power Conditioner with surge protection. Different manufacturer's sometimes target different areas for AC treatment. And this can affect the quality of your audio. I mention this so you can be careful to compare apples to apples, not oranges when shopping.
> 
> I should qualify my opening by stating, I've no idea what your reality is for clean AC. Some residences have it cleaner or dirtier than others. Then there's the matter of interference inside the listening room - what kind and how much is in yours? I simply don't know. But do want to encourage you to identify problems and look at options to address them.
> 
> ...


 

 At one point I thought I could really hear the power grid get dirty from 7am till 1am the next day. I would start to listen at 1am till 7am and thought I had the cleanest power at that time. One really good piece of equipment that is still on my list to purchase is the Richard Grey substation. There may even be an interest in a power re-generator after that. Funny how so many crazy audiophiles end with getting into power conditioning. I really believe it is a big factor along with the other helpful things going on in a system.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm considering an Ultrasone purchase.  Could you describe your 2900s for me, please?  Do you know anything about the 2400s?  Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I think I need to start saving up again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely! Depending on one's budget and target goals, there's several options. A few current posters to this thread have even worked in the Power Conditioning industry. Some use isolation transformers with or without other AC remedies. Me? I'm a poor. And have chosen to go with an APC Power Conditioner with surge protection. Different manufacturer's sometimes target different areas for AC treatment. And this can affect the quality of your audio. I mention this so you can be careful to compare apples to apples, not oranges when shopping.
> 
> I should qualify my opening by stating, I've no idea what your reality is for clean AC. Some residences have it cleaner or dirtier than others. Then there's the matter of interference inside the listening room - what kind and how much is in yours? I simply don't know. But do want to encourage you to identify problems and look at options to address them.
> 
> ...


 

  
  [size=medium]It depends on your situation. Do you have frequent brown outs or power outages? Do you have cable TV in the house and that certainly can affect the grounding of equipment in some cases. Do you have many light dimmers in the house and are they on the same circuit breaker for your audio equipment? Does your house have a dedicated earth ground?  In some places the code required that you need two earth grounds. What I am using is this: [/size][size=medium]http://www.fruitridgetools.com/storefrontprofiles/processfeed.aspx?sfid=136763&i=238053403&mpid=8171&dfid=1[/size]
  [size=medium]Just the shipping is a bit high but I feel it is a good bang for the buck as far isolation transformer goes.[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]It depends on your situation. Do you have frequent brown outs or power outages? Do you have cable TV in the house and that certainly can affect the grounding of equipment in some cases. Do you have many light dimmers in the house and are they on the same circuit breaker for your audio equipment? Does your house have a dedicated earth ground?  In some places the code required that you need two earth grounds. What I am using is this: [/size][size=medium]http://www.fruitridgetools.com/storefrontprofiles/processfeed.aspx?sfid=136763&i=238053403&mpid=8171&dfid=1[/size]
> [size=medium]Just the shipping is a bit high but I feel it is a good bang for the buck as far isolation transformer goes.[/size]


 

 Thanks for your reply, john57. And expanding on my comment of "_Target goals" - _with both of us understanding_ "It depends." _I've previously identified my own problems and solutions inside the home. 
   
  However, it is member Ahzari that is seeking solutions, not me.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm considering an Ultrasone purchase.  Could you describe your 2900s for me, please?  Do you know anything about the 2400s?  Thanks.


 

 don't know anything about the 2400 (Ive heard they are warmer than the 900/2900).. Its weird, I don't think ultrasones pair wonderfully with the Woo 6series I have tried them with. The 2900s are a great upgrade from the 900s, but they sound hallow sometimes (very unforgiving on tracks), compared with my new signature pros, their sound was much less neutral with emphasis in the treble and bass frequencies. But, with that said, I think the 2900s are great headphones and you can get a great price from RMC Audio if you are interested. I prefer the Signature Pro, but its a very expensive upgrade (just got it, so not quite sure if its worth the extra cost). My D7000s are still the king of the hill (to my ears) they just do so well with my WA6SE.. I should have some Audeze LCD2 rev2s on the way to try out, I'll post the results with my Woo.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks for your insights.  I appreciate them.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> don't know anything about the 2400 (Ive heard they are warmer than the 900/2900).. Its weird, I don't think ultrasones pair wonderfully with the Woo 6series I have tried them with. The 2900s are a great upgrade from the 900s, but they sound hallow sometimes (very unforgiving on tracks), compared with my new signature pros, their sound was much less neutral with emphasis in the treble and bass frequencies. But, with that said, I think the 2900s are great headphones and you can get a great price from RMC Audio if you are interested. I prefer the Signature Pro, but its a very expensive upgrade (just got it, so not quite sure if its worth the extra cost). My D7000s are still the king of the hill (to my ears) they just do so well with my WA6SE.. I should have some Audeze LCD2 rev2s on the way to try out, I'll post the results with my Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> don't know anything about the 2400 (Ive heard they are warmer than the 900/2900).. Its weird, I don't think ultrasones pair wonderfully with the Woo 6series I have tried them with. The 2900s are a great upgrade from the 900s, but they sound hallow sometimes (very unforgiving on tracks), compared with my new signature pros, their sound was much less neutral with emphasis in the treble and bass frequencies. But, with that said, I think the 2900s are great headphones and you can get a great price from RMC Audio if you are interested. I prefer the Signature Pro, but its a very expensive upgrade (just got it, so not quite sure if its worth the extra cost). My D7000s are still the king of the hill (to my ears) they just do so well with my WA6SE.. I should have some Audeze LCD2 rev2s on the way to try out, I'll post the results with my Woo.


 

 Can't wait for you to put some hours on both the Signature Pro's and LCD-2's. Owning the 6 SE, I would love to hear your impressions. I too, really like the D7000 pairing!


----------



## m0gwai

Hi,
   
  For anyone who owns a WES, is it worth it to go for the tube upgrades, I was thinking to go for:
   
*Driver tubes upgrade:*
 Sophia 6SL7 grade A matched quad.
   
*Power tubes upgrade:*
 Shugang 50-Years Treasure 6CA7 matched quad.
   
  But if it's not worth it that's 880$ I will gladly put else where.
   
  Complete system will be Stax SR-009, PS Audio perfectwave DAC+Transport.
   
  Thanks


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





m0gwai said:


> Hi,
> 
> For anyone who owns a WES, is it worth it to go for the tube upgrades, I was thinking to go for:
> 
> ...


 



 Since you have the SR-009, I will say go for it.  You know you will regret not getting it later.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Since you have the SR-009, I will say go for it.  You know you will regret not getting it later.


 

 The member is so close to reverie, I'd encourage the upgrade as well.


----------



## m0gwai

I suppose you're right and I don't want to save a few hunders on the 15k $ system I'm building but I was hoping someone who experience the WES with and without the upgraded tube could comment.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





m0gwai said:


> I suppose you're right and I don't want to save a few hunders on the 15k $ system I'm building but I was hoping someone who experience the WES with and without the upgraded tube could comment.


 


 Then I would send HeadphoneAddict a PM. He's probably the most knowledgeable about the WES.


----------



## FRGus723

My WA6SE Maxxxed is getting delivered today.  
   
  Can't wait to pair with Sophia and 6EW7 and Grado GS1000i.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





frgus723 said:


> My WA6SE Maxxxed is getting delivered today.
> 
> Can't wait to pair with Sophia and 6EW7 and Grado GS1000i.


 


 I placed an order for a WA6-SE last week.  I am getting the 274b Sophia Princess and the 6GL7/6EM7 tube upgrades.
   
  Can someone tell me what a "maxed" WA6-SE is comprised of?
   
  thanks.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> I placed an order for a WA6-SE last week.  I am getting the 274b Sophia Princess and the 6GL7/6EM7 tube upgrades.
> 
> Can someone tell me what a "maxed" WA6-SE is comprised of?
> 
> thanks.


 

 Different internal parts, caps, resistors, etc.  I'm not sure which ones, you'd have to ask the people at Woo, or the owner of the specific amp.  Woo tweaks their amps from time to time.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


m0gwai said:


> I suppose you're right and I don't want to save a few hunders on the 15k $ system I'm building but I was hoping someone who experience the WES with and without the upgraded tube could comment.


 

 You might want to do a little more research first, as I've read more than once (including in the SFO meet thread today) that the 009 needs more power than the WES can deliver for optimum performance.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> You might want to do a little more research first, as I've read more than once (including in the SFO meet thread today) that the 009 needs more power than the WES can deliver for optimum performance.


 

 I had the chance to listen to the SR-009 with both the WES and A10 side by side at a meet. I personally think the A10 is a better match in this case. IMO is better than the WES and way better than the BHSE for the SR-009.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


musicman59 said:


> I had the chance to listen to the SR-009 with both the WES and A10 side by side at a meet. I personally think the A10 is a better match in this case. IMO is better than the WES and way better than the BHSE for the SR-009.


 
   
  The consensus at last weekend's meet seems to be that the new Cavalli was the way to go for the 009, but they didn't mention the A10.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> The consensus at last weekend's meet seems to be that the new Cavalli was the way to go for the 009, but they didn't mention the A10.


 

 I saw it at RMAF but Alex was having problems with it and could not listen to it with the 009 just with the 407 or 507 don't remember but I was not impressed could be due to the headphones.


----------



## john57

> Originally Posted by *musicman59* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 


> I had the chance to listen to the SR-009 with both the WES and A10 side by side at a meet. I personally think the A10 is a better match in this case. IMO is better than the WES and way better than the BHSE for the SR-009.


 

 I never was able to try the A10 at the RMAF but I will agree that the WES is far better than the BHSE with the SR-009


----------



## Golfnutz

http://www.head-fi.org/t/484647/bhse-or-woo-wes


----------



## Dubstep Girl

w00t! gonna get a huge tax return! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  im gonna buy hd 800s and maybe upgrade amps or something!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> w00t! gonna get a huge tax return!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 cool, id actually like to hear your impressions of the HD800s with the WA6SE..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i could compare to the WA2 as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  listening to music on my grado sr325...wow i forgot how good these sound, they have so much detail, even compared to my other headphones.
   
  they're a little bright at times, but they're awesome!


----------



## Rawrbington

besides the T1 whats the next best sounding headphone your WA2?
   
   
  I really like the pre out on the WA2.
  when i pair it with the pre in on my SX950 everything gets so liquid and smooth.  guitars just really come alive through the speakers.  i think the warmth of the woo plus the pioneer being just on the warm side of neutral combined with the slightly bright and revealing Mission MX1s makes the missions sound well above their price range.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol the LCD-2 are definitely the next best. i actually think the LCD-2 are slightly better than the T1 sometimes. i have to compare them to the T1 again when i get my t1 back.
   
  the LCD-2 just sound so perfect. if they had a better high end, they'd be perfect.
   
  i can't wait to get hd 800s, i will give my impressions of all 3 headphones as well since not many people own all 3 or have reviewed them all side-by-side yet.
   
   
   
  i like using my WA2 as a pre-amp to the WA6-SE. i think it adds more to the soundstage, haven't compared it much. all i know is i like what i hear lol.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i like using my WA2 as a pre-amp to the WA6-SE. i think it adds more to the soundstage, haven't compared it much. all i know is i like what i hear lol.


 

 yes!
  its really hard for me to put my finger on what it is that sounds so awesome when using my 2 as a pre amp for my speakers.
  but whatever it is i like it a lot.
   
  im not sure if its possible but it almost seemed like it adds some soundstaging to the speakers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol the LCD-2 are definitely the next best. i actually think the LCD-2 are slightly better than the T1 sometimes. i have to compare them to the T1 again when i get my t1 back.
> 
> the LCD-2 just sound so perfect. if they had a better high end, they'd be perfect.
> 
> ...


 


  No doubt!


----------



## DoReMi

wallet said " why are you doing this to me?" ..... WA 2 on the way so I can finally join the club.
  I asked Jack for the tube combo suggested by Macedonian Hero that I always follow lurking here and there due to very little time at my disposal:
   
   
  TS5998 Power Tubes - 115 each
  CV2492 Mullard Driver Tubes - 
  EZ80 Telefunken or Mullard Rectfifier tubes
   
   
  but he said they are hard to find so my question is: will the Sylvania  7236 NOS upgrade be sufficient to give me enough punch to drive my cans? ( T1- HD 650 linked to Icon HDP as DAC )
Also any particular power cable ou there you suggest? ( please remember what my wallet said) 
Thanks to everyone for all the precious info delivered, it's a real pleasure learning this way!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the WA2 works best with high impedance cans so yes. any tube combo should be good with the T1 / HD650. and the t1 have beautiful unmatched synergy with the WA2.


----------



## DoReMi

Thanks Dubstep I thought so, I was just a bit concerned at the WA 2 not being able to rich some of the Wa 6 Se  energy or punch. You have both ampli, ever tried T1 with Wa 6 SE only? What do you think about that. I do like warm sound but I also like a bit of energy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

you will be fine with WA2. its alot better than WA6-SE when it comes to the T1. 
   
  the WA6-SE does have more muscle and more energy, but the WA2 performs better with the T1. it adds more weight to the mids and smoothens out the high end while also expanding the soundstage some. 
   
  you will like the WA2, you can't go wrong.
   
  as for tube combos, i use the sylvania 7236, tesla 6ca4, and sylvania 7308, the biggest difference comes from the power tubes. 
   
  the TS5998 are supposed to be the better tubes, but i got sold a bad pair and good TS 5998 are hard to come by, they are more expensive too.
   
   
  plus i like the 7236 sound now, the bass is very well controlled and tight. the 7236 are almost as good as the 5998 when it comes to power, and they are alot better than the stock tubes too.


----------



## DoReMi

thanks that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Here in Italy there isn't a big market for tube amplifiers, seems like SS is the way to go, so every bit of info I can get is just plenty helpfull. Thanks a lot for this. I'll post shots and impressions as soon as this baby gets home


----------



## obzilla

Well I am now pre-officially a member of the club.
  A used, maxed out GES will be on my front door next week. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





doremi said:


> Also any particular power cable ou there you suggest? ( please remember what my wallet said)


 


  You can't go wrong with one of these.  Get the thickest, shortest cable you can find.  For instance, the 3 foot 14 AWG cable.
   
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10228


----------



## thrak

If you want something a bit more exotic without breaking the bank try the Shunyata Research Venom 3 @ $99.  Many a head-fier swear by these.  I got one, but to be honest I am not sure if the difference I hear is placebo or real.  ymmv....


----------



## Zombie_X

Well not to discredit you but I don't hear the difference in my gear. 
   
  I can also recommend the Monoprice power cables. I use their 14awg models. For my Auditor I use the Audio-GD power cable, though it's no better than the mono price.
   
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> If you want something a bit more exotic without breaking the bank try the Shunyata Research Venom 3 @ $99.  Many a head-fier swear by these.  I got one, but to be honest I am not sure if the difference I hear is placebo or real.  ymmv....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





doremi said:


> wallet said " why are you doing this to me?" ..... WA 2 on the way so I can finally join the club.
> I asked Jack for the tube combo suggested by Macedonian Hero that I always follow lurking here and there due to very little time at my disposal:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Well I am now pre-officially a member of the club.
> A used, maxed out GES will be on my front door next week. Looking forward to it.


 

 Welcome to the Wonderful & Woo-tastic World of the 'Unite' thread!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the WA2 works best with high impedance cans so yes. any tube combo should be good with the T1 / HD650. and the t1 have beautiful unmatched synergy with the WA2.


 


  WA2 - what synergy and/or sound do you prefer between the HD600; HD650; K701? I'm considering a backup set of pre-owned cans opposite the D7000's for use with an OTL amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hd 650s sound very warm on the WA2. a little slow, but if you want opposite, the k701 is the best. its very enjoyable off the WA2 however, the WA2 doesn't have enough power for the K701 unless you only listen to music that doesn't have much bass, or if you're more of a quiet listener


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hd 650s sound very warm on the WA2. a little slow, but if you want opposite, the k701 is the best. its very enjoyable off the WA2 however, the WA2 doesn't have enough power for the K701 unless you only listen to music that doesn't have much bass, or if you're more of a quiet listener


 


  Power shouldn't be an issue. Glenn is custom building an OTL amp for me - 1.5 watts @ 32ohms. I want to get a higher impedance pre-owned can but have no idea what the usual suspects sound like. Ah, but my Woo mate would! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Um... that would be you. _
   
  So, with power not an issue, do you like the sound of the K701's better than the Senns 600/650? Thanks.


----------



## shipsupt

Your woo-mates have you covered... You have access to both the K702 and HD600 for audition purposes from one of your woo neighbors... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Power shouldn't be an issue. Glenn is custom building an OTL amp for me - 1.5 watts @ 32ohms. I want to get a higher impedance pre-owned can but have no idea what the usual suspects sound like. Ah, but my Woo mate would!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well, i prefer the hd 650, however it seems that the k701 would match up better with the OTL WA2 if it had a little more muscle. the k701 goes from being cold and clinical to being slightly dark but neutral still. its kinda hard to explain, its just such an interesting sound. the k701 just have alot more weight to them with the WA2.
   
  the k701 also works extremely well with the WA6-SE. lots of power, dynamics, and energy. the bass is where the biggest improvement is noticed with the WA6-SE.
   
   
  umm the hd 650s have basically the same sound signature as the LCD-2. however, the hd 650s aren't as good (more colored sounding, less detail, smaller soundstage, etc)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> well, i prefer the hd 650, however it seems that the k701 would match up better with the OTL WA2 if it had a little more muscle. the k701 goes from being cold and clinical to being slightly dark but neutral still. its kinda hard to explain, its just such an interesting sound. the k701 just have alot more weight to them with the WA2.
> 
> the k701 also works extremely well with the WA6-SE. lots of power, dynamics, and energy. the bass is where the biggest improvement is noticed with the WA6-SE.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Your woo-mates have you covered... You have access to both the K702 and HD600 for audition purposes from one of your woo neighbors...


 


  Thanks, Dubstep Girl! Your listening experience is valued. As luck would have it, my neighbor (shipsupt) once again has my back! No, really... I am his neighbor. Well, 20 minutes away but I'll take that with pride! An outstanding Head-Fier, that shipsupt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been meaning to bring my entire audio rack to the library or your place this Spring anyway. Might have to chase you down 28 February... or thereabout! We'll work it out. I'm really loving these TS-BGRP's! My new Wireworld Coax now has 130 hours and my presentation is getting more 3D like. Listening to B.B.King's "Ask me No Questions" and it sounds right nice and eerie.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Power shouldn't be an issue. Glenn is custom building an OTL amp for me - 1.5 watts @ 32ohms. I want to get a higher impedance pre-owned can but have no idea what the usual suspects sound like. Ah, but my Woo mate would!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  With the music I've seen you talk about i'd lean toward the 701. I have the Q701 (Quincy Jones edition of the 701) and love it.
   
  But on the other hand the HD650s are fun. Very fun in fact.
   
  Very tough decision. I couldn't make it personally so I bought both.


----------



## Draygonn

dubstep girl said:


> well, i prefer the hd 650, however it seems that the k701 would match up better with the OTL WA2 if it had a little more muscle. the k701 goes from being cold and clinical to being slightly dark but neutral still. its kinda hard to explain, its just such an interesting sound. the k701 just have alot more weight to them with the WA2.
> 
> the k701 also works extremely well with the WA6-SE. lots of power, dynamics, and energy. the bass is where the biggest improvement is noticed with the WA6-SE.




What about a WA2 pre => WA6SE = > K701? Might that give them a twinge of WA2 flavor with enough power from the 6SE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> With the music I've seen you talk about i'd lean toward the 701. I have the Q701 (Quincy Jones edition of the 701) and love it.
> 
> But on the other hand the HD650s are fun. Very fun in fact.
> 
> *Very tough decision. I couldn't make it personally so I bought both.*


 













 Some here, really know how to luxuriate!


----------



## DoReMi

Thanks a lot for your warm welcome Silent One, and thanks to everyone else who is suggesting me the best way to go with cables. So a good , thick PC power cord is out of question I suppose


----------



## grokit

Quote:


doremi said:


> Thanks a lot for your warm welcome Silent One, and thanks to everyone else who is suggesting me the best way to go with cables. So a good , thick PC power cord is out of question I suppose


 

 That's all I use on my WA22, and I am quite satisfied with it. Sometimes I think about getting one of those $30 hospital-grade cords but then I ask myself why...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
_edit_: But I am on a relatively new part of the grid, and everybody's power situation is different. My power is pretty clean.


----------



## grokit

As far as the K701 goes, I tried two different balanced pairs and my current SE pair out of my WA22 and I definitely preferred it out of the Schiit Lyr that I auditioned. I think they do best with hybrids, as I have tried them out of a variety of amps.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, grokit. Spring is here... or nearly so and members are gonna be upgrading their cans like 1999! Me? I'll be manning the exits; pick up some cans for my trouble.


----------



## grokit

My pleasure Silent One! The biggest difference was in the 701's dynamics, they really came alive with the Lyr.


----------



## Silent One

Since I'm in no hurry, _well I am but my wallet cannot be identified by its remains_, I'll narrow the choice and let the deal drive the purchase.


----------



## jc9394

K701 SilentOne, I love to try it again since I have more power amps than the WA6 I had before.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Well not to discredit you but I don't hear the difference in my gear.
> 
> I can also recommend the Monoprice power cables. I use their 14awg models. For my Auditor I use the Audio-GD power cable, though it's no better than the mono price.
> 
> ...


 

 no 'discredit' taken   i did qualify my statement.  although, on second look, perhaps i didn't qualify it enough.  what i should've said is "i wanted to hear a difference and i _think_ i did.  whether that is real or imagined is another thing entirely and i am not sure i can say either way."  if i was asked to bet money on it, i wouldn't.


----------



## hodgjy

I have a question for all you Woo lovers:
   
  I current own the WA3+ (with preamp outs).  It retails new for $600.  I plan on selling it, but there is one caveat.  It makes a very, very, very faint noise you can hear if you listen very closely when no music is playing.  I cannot determine the cause of it.  I am sure it is not the tubes, though, as I have rolled every tube I own in it and get the same effect.  It may be dirty power in my place, but it may also be something wrong internally with the amp.  However, you absolutely cannot hear this noise when music is playing.  But, since you can when no music is playing, there is no way I can sell this as an amp in a perfectly working condition.
   
  So, my question is this:
   
  If I give full disclosure in a for sale ad and describe it exactly as I described above, what would be an appropriate asking price for the amp?  Would there even be an interest in buying it?  I'm sure Woo Audio could diagnose and fix it, and so could a good DIYer, but I have no desire to send it out for repairs myself.  I have moved on to different gear these days (which is why I'm not as frequent of a visitor in here these days).
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> What about a WA2 pre => WA6SE = > K701? Might that give them a twinge of WA2 flavor with enough power from the 6SE?


 


  thats what i do, and i love it! 
   
  but thats not an option for everyone since that means spending almost 2500 bucks on 2 different amps. 
   
  if i could i would just get the WA5-LE, except that thats more expensive since the upgrade parts is a must as well as tube upgrades.


----------



## Zombie_X

Try putting you hand over the pre-amp outputs at see if the hum goes away. On my V200 it has the same issue but covering the output's does help.
   
  If it doesn't do anything it could be the tubes. I know you said you have swapped the tubes but they do pick up RFI and my WA3+ does this as well.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have a question for all you Woo lovers:
> 
> I current own the WA3+ (with preamp outs).  It retails new for $600.  I plan on selling it, but there is one caveat.  It makes a very, very, very faint noise you can hear if you listen very closely when no music is playing.  I cannot determine the cause of it.  I am sure it is not the tubes, though, as I have rolled every tube I own in it and get the same effect.  It may be dirty power in my place, but it may also be something wrong internally with the amp.  However, you absolutely cannot hear this noise when music is playing.  But, since you can when no music is playing, there is no way I can sell this as an amp in a perfectly working condition.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have a question for all you Woo lovers:
> 
> I current own the WA3+ (with preamp outs).  It retails new for $600.  I plan on selling it, but there is one caveat.  It makes a very, very, very faint noise you can hear if you listen very closely when no music is playing.  I cannot determine the cause of it.  I am sure it is not the tubes, though, as I have rolled every tube I own in it and get the same effect.  It may be dirty power in my place, but it may also be something wrong internally with the amp.  However, you absolutely cannot hear this noise when music is playing.  But, since you can when no music is playing, there is no way I can sell this as an amp in a perfectly working condition.
> 
> ...


 


  thats a tough one.  i'd say throw it up for 300-400 whatever you feel like.
  give the full disclosure as you did here.
  and then also include that you are open to offers.
  see what happens?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my WA6-SE makes very very faint noise as well as it gets more more noticeable past halfway on the volume knob, however, the WA6-SE won't ever have to be turned up past halfway, so its practically silent.
   
  the WA2 on the other hand is completely silent throughout the entire volume range.


----------



## hodgjy

That is a fantastic idea!  I'll try that once I get the whole rig set up again (she's being punished at the moment and is in her box in the closet).
   
  Thanks!
   
  And thanks to others for their insights as well!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Try putting you hand over the pre-amp outputs at see if the hum goes away. On my V200 it has the same issue but covering the output's does help.
> 
> If it doesn't do anything it could be the tubes. I know you said you have swapped the tubes but they do pick up RFI and my WA3+ does this as well.


----------



## Zombie_X

No problem. The pre-amp outputs can pick up RFI as well, that's why I wanted you to cover them up with your hands (to block the RFI). Even putting some home made stopper caps in can help.
   
  I made my own and it's easy to do. Just get some cheap RCA cables, cut the cable leaving an inch of wire left at the jack. Twist both wires together and then tape them up with electrical tape. Now use a needle nose pliers and pull out the center pin, it may be hard at first but rock the pin back and forth. There you go, free noise stoppers!
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That is a fantastic idea!  I'll try that once I get the whole rig set up again (she's being punished at the moment and is in her box in the closet).
> 
> Thanks!
> And thanks to others for their insights as well!


----------



## john57

Zombie_x
   
  That could work as long you* pull *the center pin out otherwise you short the output. I always leave my pre-amp connected to my active monitors even when my monitors are turned off.


----------



## hodgjy

I was just planning on putting my fingers on there to act as a ground.  If the sound went away, I would think about buying resistor plugs to put in there.
   
  But, I'm most likely selling the amp anyway, but more information about the problem will lead to better disclosure.

  
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Zombie_x
> 
> That could work as long you* pull *the center pin out otherwise you short the output. I always leave my pre-amp connected to my active monitors even when my monitors are turned off.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yeah, the pin must be removed. Otherwise you'll have boo boo's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  hodgjy, yes try with your fingers first. they should act as a ground. If the hum goes away, your amp is fine 
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Zombie_x
> 
> That could work as long you* pull *the center pin out otherwise you short the output. I always leave my pre-amp connected to my active monitors even when my monitors are turned off.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have a question for all you Woo lovers:
> 
> I current own the WA3+ (with preamp outs).  It retails new for $600.  I plan on selling it, but there is one caveat.  It makes a very, very, very faint noise you can hear if you listen very closely when no music is playing.  I cannot determine the cause of it.  I am sure it is not the tubes, though, as I have rolled every tube I own in it and get the same effect.  It may be dirty power in my place, but it may also be something wrong internally with the amp.  However, you absolutely cannot hear this noise when music is playing.  But, since you can when no music is playing, there is no way I can sell this as an amp in a perfectly working condition.
> 
> ...


 


  Greetings hodgjy! Zombie_X makes a very good point about RFI, complete with solutions that follow. I'd like to add that ground loops and RFI can appear and disappear inside your listening room at any given time without notice. This surprises a lot of people. Especially when their system is perfectly dialed-in, day and nights turning into to weeks then months of sonic bliss. No hum, no static and no worries.
   
  To 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what the...?! As pointed out in the Woo FAQs - #18, it could be your tubes or sources. In my experience, I went nearly 11 months with no hum from my Woo at Max volume and this with everything connected - dead silence. Then I decided to remodel the listening room. I left the Woo in its place and the HDTV/Hi-Speed router in their places but moved everything else. And created a haunted listening room.
   
  And guess what? When I meticulously restored each and every piece to their original position, the hum remained. I have since reduced the hum to a near inaudible 95% at Max volume. But it isn't my Woo, it is environmental. If your Woo is dead silent without sources connected to it, your amp is fine. It would have to be tubes, sources or any of the other electronics (cordless phones; mobile phones; TV's; Light dimmers and switches ect).
   
  Lastly, you could sell your "Dead silent" Woo and the buyer could face similar problems and associate blame with you, the seller. So, if it were me, I'd clear both my conscious and amp status and sell with confidence!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my WA6-SE makes very very faint noise as well as it gets more more noticeable past halfway on the volume knob, however, the WA6-SE won't ever have to be turned up past halfway, so its practically silent.
> 
> the WA2 on the other hand is completely silent throughout the entire volume range.


 

 Did you ever have an opportunity to enjoy complete silence when the amp was new? With the faint noise being introduced at a later time?


----------



## ardilla

double post... 
   
  edit:


----------



## ardilla

The Decaware CSP2+ and the Taboo is set up this way... CSP2+ OTL/Pre is for high imp high sensitivity, while the Taboo 3W speaker amp drives >60 ohm power hungry phones. Decaware recommends feeding the Taboo with the CSP2+ to get that extra boost on the pre-amp input..
   
  But isn't upgrading the AKG's more VFM than spending  2500 on amplification?
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> What about a WA2 pre => WA6SE = > K701? Might that give them a twinge of WA2 flavor with enough power from the 6SE?


 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thats what i do, and i love it!
> 
> but thats not an option for everyone since that means spending almost 2500 bucks on 2 different amps.
> 
> if i could i would just get the WA5-LE, except that thats more expensive since the upgrade parts is a must as well as tube upgrades.


----------



## hodgjy

Very good points.  I tried every tube I own, as well as disconnecting the source.  I unplugged everything in my apartment except my Woo.  Sound persists.  I tried different outlets.  Sound persists.  It has to be one of three possibilities: 1) dirty power, 2) EFI, 3) something with the amp itself.
   
  I'll try new things and ponder how to proceed.  I just dropped some bank, so the WA3 is most likely needing to be sold at some point.  I'm in no rush, though.
   
  Thanks for all the advice so far from everyone!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings hodgjy! Zombie_X makes a very good point about RFI, complete with solutions that follow. I'd like to add that ground loops and RFI can appear and disappear inside your listening room at any given time without notice. This surprises a lot of people. Especially when their system is perfectly dialed-in, day and nights turning into to weeks then months of sonic bliss. No hum, no static and no worries.
> 
> To
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Very good points.  I tried every tube I own, as well as disconnecting the source.  I unplugged everything in my apartment except my Woo.  Sound persists.  I tried different outlets.  Sound persists.  It has to be one of three possibilities: 1) dirty power, 2) EFI, 3) something with the amp itself.
> 
> I'll try new things and ponder how to proceed.  I just dropped some bank, so the WA3 is most likely needing to be sold at some point.  I'm in no rush, though.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice so far from everyone!


 


  I know you're just about done with it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's already out of sight and out of mind, or close to being so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But if I may ask just one more question (r.i.p. peter faulk), have you tried powering up your Woo at a friend's home or alternate location?
   
  One thing's for certain, I'd buy from you. We go back some, hodgjy, and your posts speak integrity.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> K701 SilentOne, I love to try it again since I have more power amps than the WA6 I had before.


 


  Sounds good to me! My sights are on B-Stock or pre-owned from fellow Head-Fier's. Likely won't happen until summer. However, it is rather strange how some of these purchases enter the listening room...


----------



## hodgjy

Thank you!  That's quite the compliment!  I have no doubt I could buy/sell from you with utmost confidence as well.
   
  I have not tried another location, but that will be done very soon.  I avoided my office because I can say without a doubt that the power there is dirtier than where I live!  And the EFI is insane here since we have all kinds of scientific equipment.  I'll take it to a friend's house and try it out.  I admit I should have done that long ago, but I was so discouraged when the sound appeared that the amp got punished and banished to the closet.  I get no noise in my Asgard, so the power may not be dirty, but we all know tubes are highly susceptible to EFI.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know you're just about done with it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> The Decaware CSP2+ and the Taboo is set up this way... CSP2+ OTL/Pre is for high imp high sensitivity, while the Taboo 3W speaker amp drives >60 ohm power hungry phones. Decaware recommends feeding the Taboo with the CSP2+ to get that extra boost on the pre-amp input..
> 
> But isn't upgrading the AKG's more VFM than spending  2500 on amplification?


 


   
  im buying hd 800s in the next week or 2.. i already have 8 other pairs besides the akgs, and if i upgraded amps, it would benefit all my headphones, not just the akgs
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you ever have an opportunity to enjoy complete silence when the amp was new? With the faint noise being introduced at a later time?


 


  not that i remember. its always had some noise past the half-way point.


----------



## grokit

Hodjgy, it doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with your WA3+ at all.


----------



## hodgjy

I hope you're right.  I do plan on selling it, and as such, I thought it was necessary to disclose the noise, whether it was inherent to the design or a malfunction.  That way, the buyer doesn't get something they weren't anticipating. 
   
  I do feel much better about things after talking with you all.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hodjgy, it doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with your WA3+ at all.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My pleasure Silent One! The biggest difference was in the 701's dynamics, they really came alive with the Lyr.


 


  More power and current swing in general really brings them to life.  All the owners who complain that they sound thin and anemic just aren't hotrodding them enough.


----------



## hodgjy

Having never heard the 701s, I find this to be true.  Everything I've read points to more power.  Hybrid amps and output transformer tube amps feed the 701s.  From a pure SS side of things, the Heed CanAmp is said to be an excellent match for the 701s.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> More power and current swing in general really brings them to life.  All the owners who complain that they sound thin and anemic just aren't hotrodding them enough.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> More power and current swing in general really brings them to life.  All the owners who complain that they sound thin and anemic just aren't hotrodding them enough.


 


  +1.
   
  oh silent, i made an interesting discovery. With the K701s, while they sound warmer and fuller with the WA2, using the WA6-SE (no pre-amp just the WA6-SE), the just have so much energy and life. i am listening to some house music on these and honestly, i thought i was wearing my denons, i can't believe the akgs have this much bass in them lol. when properly powered, the k701s are AWESOME!!!  
   
  dancing right now to Eric Prydz's  Call on Me


----------



## john57

Some OTL tube amps like mine really give music its dynamic punch especially with full Orchestra and kettledrums. The one drawback is that in movies with people yelling or screaming it can be a bit too much and I would have to turn on some compression in software to tame those peaks.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Having never heard the 701s, I find this to be true.  Everything I've read points to more power.  Hybrid amps and output transformer tube amps feed the 701s.  From a pure SS side of things, the Heed CanAmp is said to be an excellent match for the 701s.


 

 My VHP-2 was a better amp than the CanAmp IMHO.  The CanAmp might have unusually good low impedance drive, but then again so did the VHP-2 really.  All I know is that specs don't tell the whole story about the K701 as they are really difficult to drive even for good amps but rewarding to listen to when you do.  The bass I get from my setup now is pretty incredible.  I can make the sides of my face physically hurt if I turn it up with the right material becuase there is so much rapid air compression.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> More power and current swing in general really brings them to life.  All the owners who complain that they sound thin and anemic just aren't hotrodding them enough.


 







 For some odd reason, this transported me back to being first in line at a Vegas Buffet - _if there's more to be had, then..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1.
> 
> oh silent, i made an interesting discovery. With the K701s, while they sound warmer and fuller with the WA2, using the WA6-SE (no pre-amp just the WA6-SE), the just have so much energy and life. i am listening to some house music on these and honestly, i thought i was wearing my denons, i can't believe the akgs have this much bass in them lol. when properly powered, the k701s are AWESOME!!!
> 
> dancing right now to Eric Prydz's  Call on Me


 

 Thanks, Dubstep Girl. To share in your joy, I went 7+ minutes strong with the video. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before moving the cart ahead of the horse and cash register, my OTL trial may reveal magic with the Denon's despite the efficient 25ohms. This would make for a very pleasant surprise. I'm just preparing myself for backup...


----------



## hodgjy

This is why I love this forum--I learn something new all the time.  Before today, I had never heard of the VHP-2.  And now I do.  And it seems like a pretty sweet amp at that!
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> My VHP-2 was a better amp than the CanAmp IMHO.  The CanAmp might have unusually good low impedance drive, but then again so did the VHP-2 really.  All I know is that specs don't tell the whole story about the K701 as they are really difficult to drive even for good amps but rewarding to listen to when you do.  The bass I get from my setup now is pretty incredible.  I can make the sides of my face physically hurt if I turn it up with the right material becuase there is so much rapid air compression.


----------



## pyramid6

I need new power tubes for my WA22.  I have two sets and both have developed a hum in one channel (the channel switches when I switch tubes). What set of tubes are balanced, available and quiet?  Anything new, new that is great?  I also don't care about the price as long as they are dead silent.  I would throw down the $300+ for Shuguang Treasures if they fit the bill, but I don't think they make 6080 compatible tubes.
   
  Edit: I guess I'm asking what is consistently silent?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm, the akg k701 sound alot more open with the WA2 as a pre-amp but might lose a bit of bass, i have to listen more to tell the differences.
   
  but omg, with the WA2, it just opens up so much more. listening to Eric Johnson's masterpiece, the _Ah Via Musicom _album. AWESOME STUFF!


----------



## hodgjy

You don't have to break the bank to get great tubes.  For example, in the 6080/6AS7 family, there are some wonderful tubes that are cheap.
   
  You can get GE 6AS7GA tubes for $8 a piece at http://www.tubesandmore.com/
   
  and Sylvania 5998A (which are basically 7236 in a different bottle) for $17 a piece at http://www.fairradio.com/
   
  Both are pretty quiet.  The GE is more warm and musical and the Sylvania is more punchy.
  
  Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I need new power tubes for my WA22.  I have two sets and both have developed a hum in one channel (the channel switches when I switch tubes). What set of tubes are balanced, available and quiet?  Anything new, new that is great?  I also don't care about the price as long as they are dead silent.  I would throw down the $300+ for Shuguang Treasures if they fit the bill, but I don't think they make 6080 compatible tubes.
> 
> Edit: I guess I'm asking what is consistently silent?


----------



## Silent One

WA2-
   
  If memory serves, last year I thought I saw minimum headphone impedance @ 32ohms on the website. Now it's 25ohms, though the manual states 26ohms. I emailed Jack for clarity. Whatever values he list will not impact me inside the listening room. But as a proud Woo Audio amp owner, one that is "United" I might add, I just want to make sure things are neat and tidy.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You don't have to break the bank to get great tubes.  For example, in the 6080/6AS7 family, there are some wonderful tubes that are cheap.
> 
> You can get GE 6AS7GA tubes for $8 a piece at http://www.tubesandmore.com/
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for the reply.  I've had three sets and all of them had problems.  I even tried tube dampers.  I heard that there are more 6080 type tubes than people on the planet, but I do not know where to get them.  I guess I'll buy a few and see which ones sound good.  Do they need to be balanced?  Is there a good way to tell?


----------



## Zombie_X

Same goes fr the K400 and K501. Both need gobs of power and the WA3+ really delivers. Though they sound much better on my V200 it seems.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Having never heard the 701s, I find this to be true.  Everything I've read points to more power.  Hybrid amps and output transformer tube amps feed the 701s.  From a pure SS side of things, the Heed CanAmp is said to be an excellent match for the 701s.


----------



## hodgjy

In general, the "G" bottle type (the Coke bottle size) and the 6080 bottle type are more noisy than other power tubes, including the same plate configurations in different bottle sizes.  The whole family of tubes is prone to noise, but don't let a couple of bum tubes turn you off to some very good models.  I've found the "GA" bottle and 5998A bottles (smallest in the family) to have some of the lowest noise.  It sounds like your tubes are just bum...not all tubes will do that.
  
  Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Thank you for the reply.  I've had three sets and all of them had problems.  I even tried tube dampers.  I heard that there are more 6080 type tubes than people on the planet, but I do not know where to get them.  I guess I'll buy a few and see which ones sound good.  Do they need to be balanced?  Is there a good way to tell?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I need new power tubes for my WA22.  I have two sets and both have developed a hum in one channel (the channel switches when I switch tubes). What set of tubes are balanced, available and quiet?  Anything new, new that is great?  I also don't care about the price as long as they are dead silent.  I would throw down the $300+ for Shuguang Treasures if they fit the bill, but I don't think they make 6080 compatible tubes.
> 
> Edit: I guess I'm asking what is consistently silent?


 

 if you are dropping $300+, take a loog at GEC6AS7G.  Both pair i have are dead quiet.  they are the best power tubes i tried for hd800


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> if you are dropping $300+, take a loog at GEC6AS7G.  Both pair i have are dead quiet.  they are the best power tubes i tried for hd800


 

 Do you know of a source?  That's the most frustrating part of tube rolling.  You hear about these great tubes, but they are hard/impossible to find.


----------



## jc9394

pyramid6 said:


> Do you know of a source?  That's the most frustrating part of tube rolling.  You hear about these great tubes, but they are hard/impossible to find.




All my source are out, try fleabay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-GEC-BROWN-CURVE-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-A1-2PCS-/390356686632?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ae3125728#ht_1283wt_689

I may sell the pair I got from Rob (Skylab) to fund the D800 but have not decided yet.


----------



## Silent One

*Don't Miss!*
   
  On the Home Page, contributing writer Mike Dias put out an excellent piece on artist Issac Hayes and Stax Records.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All my source are out, try fleabay.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-GEC-BROWN-CURVE-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-A1-2PCS-/390356686632?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ae3125728#ht_1283wt_689
> I may sell the pair I got from Rob (Skylab) to fund the D800 but have not decided yet.


 

 That was all I found as well.  All in europe, I assume GB given that GEC was british.
   
  Tube rolling would be more fun if I could just find a good pair I like to start.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I need new power tubes for my WA22.  I have two sets and both have developed a hum in one channel (the channel switches when I switch tubes). What set of tubes are balanced, available and quiet?  Anything new, new that is great?  I also don't care about the price as long as they are dead silent.  I would throw down the $300+ for Shuguang Treasures if they fit the bill, but I don't think they make 6080 compatible tubes.
> 
> Edit: I guess I'm asking what is consistently silent?


 

 What is _consistently_ quiet in the 6AS7/6080 family?  I think your best bet is going to be the Bendix or other rugged type 6080 tubes if your main concern is eliminating noise.  IMHO 6AS7 tubes just have a tendency to be noisy.  My luck with them has been quite bad personally.  Since you seem prepared to spend a considerable amount of money I agree with the others on the GEC 6AS7 recommendation.  They were better made than the US tubes and sound better too, but I don't know if you can buy a pair with $300 anymore even.  The Russian 6AS7 tubes are also known to be quiet and well behaved to.  Glenn has recommended these to me for quietness before, but I don't think they sound as good as the US made tubes.


----------



## hodgjy

I agree.  My Svetlana 6H13C (or 6N13C depending on translation) is dead quiet.  Nice tube.  Underrated and misrepresented around here, if you ask me.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The Russian 6AS7 tubes are also known to be quiet and well behaved to.  Glenn has recommended these to me for quietness before, but I don't think they sound as good as the US made tubes.


----------



## grokit

I have never had any tube noise with the exception of some mild microphonics out of a single pair of TSRPs that melted away with burn-in. Unfortunately by the time it went away I had already agreed to sell them at a discount. Never had a tube failure either, with the exception of an EML 5U4G that was part of a bad batch and was replaced under warranty.
  edit: As I use the higher-gain power tubes _exclusively_ on my WA22, I feel quite fortunate


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All my source are out, try fleabay.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-GEC-BROWN-CURVE-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-A1-2PCS-/390356686632?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ae3125728#ht_1283wt_689
> I may sell the pair I got from Rob (Skylab) to fund the D800 but have not decided yet.


 


  Ohh my lord. I'm running those right now and feel like an idiot. Tube prices are beyond ridiculous.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have never had any tube noise with the exception of some mild microphonics out of a single pair of TSRPs that melted away with burn-in. Unfortunately by the time it went away I had already agreed to sell them at a discount. Never had a tube failure either, with the exception of an EML 5U4G that was part of a bad batch and was replaced under warranty.
> edit: As I use the higher-gain power tubes _exclusively_ on my WA22, I feel quite fortunate


 






 Ah, but some money is better than no money, had they failed.  You are fortunate, indeed. We were all watching and waiting to see your EML Glass issue get resolved. My own arrived end of February 2011 - one year with no issues. Admittedly, I was hesitant to order it, glad it all worked out. Will be listed shortly, as the _Mighty 596_ is in firm control!
   
  At this writing, I'm going through it with Amarra. Won't finish anytime soon nor will I attempt to. For starters, I'm reviewing and taking notes on three configurations to compare with notes taken previously with the earlier version and the same configurations: Lion/Solid State Drive; Snow Leopard/Solid State Drive; Snow Leopard/Hard Disk Drive. 
   
  Then there's the whole matter of different rectifier/tube combos. And the new amp and tube compliments haven't even arrived yet! No doubt, I gotta get a short list tomorrow. Started out this evening all ambitious... until I actually thought about combinations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Over 100 to start! No, we ain't that curious! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   However, I am in-session with Candi Staton - "Victim" and she's easily making it happen for me after hours...


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> the _Mighty 596_ is in firm control!


 


  I periodically ask .. has Jack officially stated the 596 is compatible, yet? I still don't see it on the WooAudio spreadsheet


----------



## Silent One

Oh, I wouldn't worry about that, it's an editing thang! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure he'll address it in 2012. Since they're rare, however, he may not have to.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> if you are dropping $300+, take a loog at GEC6AS7G.  Both pair i have are dead quiet.  they are the best power tubes i tried for hd800


 


  Can't agree more. they are the best tubes I ever use in the WA22.


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All my source are out, try fleabay.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-GEC-BROWN-CURVE-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-A1-2PCS-/390356686632?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ae3125728#ht_1283wt_689
> I may sell the pair I got from Rob (Skylab) to fund the D800 but have not decided yet.


 


 What is a D800?


----------



## Silent One

Hmmm, sounds like a Nikon...


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My Svetlana 6H13C (or 6N13C depending on translation) is dead quiet.


 

 As are mine. It's either 6Н13С (Cyrillic) or 6N13S (Latin). 6N13C is nonsense.


----------



## nututubes

I use and enjoy TS 6520 (6as7g) as well as TS 7236 for power tubes in my WA22. The former has lower gain than the latter, both are quiet in my estimation.
   
  And yes, balanced as well.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I periodically ask .. has Jack officially stated the 596 is compatible, yet? I still don't see it on the WooAudio spreadsheet


 


 I don't know if he has made it public but I sent him an email before jumping in the 596 boat and he let me know thye are comnpatible for my WA5-LE. I have been using them since then and all my other rectifiers had been in storage,


----------



## CloakedMistborn

Damn you head-fiers, I bought an Audio Technica A700 a few months ago, followed by a fiio e11 and then a Music Streamer II (I caught upgraditis quick). Yesterday I caved in and ordered DT880s 600 ohm and a WA6 with the Sophia upgrade. Hopefully it is a good combination to last me quite a while.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Ohh my lord. I'm running those right now and feel like an idiot. Tube prices are beyond ridiculous.


 

 I do when I use the HD800 too but lately I'm been using the LCD-2 so the GEC are back in the closet.
   


  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Can't agree more. they are the best tubes I ever use in the WA22.
> 
> 
> What is a D800?


 


http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikonD800/
   
  36 mega pixel SLR camera.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm, sounds like a Nikon...


 

 Yes, it is.  My other money sucking hobby.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I don't know if he has made it public but I sent him an email before jumping in the 596 boat and he let me know thye are comnpatible for my WA5-LE. I have been using them since then and all my other rectifiers had been in storage,


 

 I did emailed Jack before I started to use on WA22, he said it is fine as long as the adapter is make from someone that have enough knowledge on tube amp/design.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikonD800/
> 
> 36 mega pixel SLR camera.


 



   
  $3,300..................................................


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> $3,300..................................................


 

 that is only the body, not includes extra battery, grip, and lens... lucky, I have most of the fast prime lens already still need to get a 24-70 f/2.8.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Woo is like a bargain now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Howdy my friend?  I missed the Chinese New Year in HK, it is so different than here.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did emailed Jack before I started to use on WA22, he said it is fine as long as the adapter is make from someone that have enough knowledge on tube amp/design.


 


 Correct. Mine are from Gelnn.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Correct. Mine are from Gelnn.




X2, Glenn is the man! I still need to ship him my WA22 for the SE adaptor mod.


----------



## Silent One

It's said, "_Out of disaster, comes opportunity_." Very likely that some of us would not be enjoying the USAF-596, if not for Glenn seeking a solution to dannie01's problem with his amp and rectifier. I was following the dialogue in real-time (spectating?) and waiting along with others to see if dannie01's WA5-LE/5U4G issues would get resolved.
   
  Once Clayton SF posted the first pix of the USAF-596, I had to have it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Didn't even matter if I could use it or not, it deserved to be in my tube collection on beauty alone!!! Cheers to Glenn, dannie01 & Clayton SF, for introducing me to the _Mighty 596!_


----------



## musicman59

X2


----------



## Silent One

Just a "Heads-up" - will be listing my *EML 5U4G Mesh Plate* Tuesday. Purchased late February 2011. *Looks glorious... sounds glorious! *Please send PM if interested...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just a "Heads-up" - will be listing my *EML 5U4G Mesh Plate* Tuesday. Purchased late February 2011. *Looks glorious... sounds glorious! *Please send PM if interested...


 


  ur selling it?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ur selling it?!


 


_"Everything must go!" _ I'm selling a few things to finance my OTL amp...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"Everything must go!" _ I'm selling a few things to finance my OTL amp...


 


  As painful that stuff is you have to do it sometimes..... I am thinking in selling some of my stuff including headphones to finance the purchase of a SR-009/SRM-727II combo. I am not sure if I will do it but that bug keeps bitting me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> As painful that stuff is you have to do it sometimes..... I am thinking in selling some of my stuff including headphones to finance the purchase of a SR-009/SRM-727II combo. I am not sure if I will do it but that bug keeps bitting me.


 


  "Buy it now!" Oh, sorry eBay. I know what you mean, though. However, the great Stevie Wonder recently commented on getting older as a musician. He acknowledged his storied career and the wonderful memories it's left him with. But as much as he'd like for them to be frozen in time, it's only when we move forward that we can cherish them.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm going to be listing things for sale soon, too.  I will most likely be selling my WA3, some Tung-sol 5998s (not matched pair), and other tubes.  I might have purchased a nice amp from Skylab's stable.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"Everything must go!" _ I'm selling a few things to finance my OTL amp...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what OTL amp are you buying?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's said, "_Out of disaster, comes opportunity_." Very likely that some of us would not be enjoying the USAF-596, if not for Glenn seeking a solution to dannie01's problem with his amp and rectifier. I was following the dialogue in real-time (spectating?) and waiting along with others to see if dannie01's WA5-LE/5U4G issues would get resolved.
> 
> Once Clayton SF posted the first pix of the USAF-596, I had to have it!
> 
> ...


 

 I do love the 596 too but it bugs the hell out me not able to use both NU and TS 6F8G, that slight static/hum kills it for me.  I still use the 596 but only pair with Brimar CV1988, Treasures, or TS BGRP.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm going to be listing things for sale soon, too.  I will most likely be selling my WA3, some Tung-sol 5998s (not matched pair), and other tubes.  I might have purchased a nice amp from Skylab's stable.


 


  Any of his amp collection is a killer amp.  Love to swing by his place next time when I'm in Chicago area if he is OK.


  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what OTL amp are you buying?


 

 I think SilentOne is getting a custom amp from Glenn.  I think ClaytonSF has one already.


----------



## hodgjy

My thoughts exactly.  Plus, he put a helluva discount on it.  Payment received.  Should ship tomorrow!!  Imagine me doing a happy dance right now.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Any of his amp collection is a killer amp.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My thoughts exactly.  Plus, he put a helluva discount on it.  Payment received.  Should ship tomorrow!!  Imagine me doing a happy dance right now.


 

 Did you pick up his Trafomatic Experience?  I was looking at it but I wanted the D800 much more.
   
  Rob is a super nice guy, I brought some really nice tubes from him and extremely happy.


----------



## hodgjy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did you pick up his Trafomatic Experience?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


>


 


  I want a full report by the end of this week.


----------



## hodgjy

I'll probably get it on Friday or Saturday, but I'd be very happy to give full feedback after a weekend of getting to know the new girl.  Rob is setting me up with some of his preferred tubes for it, so I'll be ready to rock it out immediately.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I want a full report by the end of this week.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm going to be listing things for sale soon, too.  I will most likely be selling my WA3, some Tung-sol 5998s (not matched pair), and other tubes.  I might have purchased a nice amp from Skylab's stable.


 

 Pix?


----------



## Clayton SF

And Glenn's amp is an amp worth checking out.
  Built like a tank, sounds like a song.
  I've also been using his adapter to utilize 6F8G/VT-99 tubes.
  Fun!


----------



## hodgjy

I'll post pics when the new girl arrives on Friday or Saturday.  In the meantime, Rob's pics are in the classifieds.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pix?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what OTL amp are you buying?


 


  The custom built 6AS7 OTL amp by 2359glenn. Clayton SF & Xcalibur255 already have theirs. My should arrive Saturday or Monday. Below, a pix of Clayton SF's table at the NorCal Bay Area Head-Fi meet: Amp is in foreground.


----------



## Silent One

Clayton, that VT-99 is looking majestic! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While you're feeling good, throw up today's pix...


----------



## hodgjy

Impressive table.  Clayton is my new hero.  Seriously.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The custom built 6AS7 OTL amp by 2359glenn. Clayton SF & Xcalibur255 already have theirs. My should arrive Saturday or Monday. Below, a pix of Clayton SF's table at the NorCal Bay Area Head-Fi meet: Amp is in foreground.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'll probably get it on Friday or Saturday, but I'd be very happy to give full feedback after a weekend of getting to know the new girl.  Rob is setting me up with some of his preferred tubes for it, so I'll be ready to rock it out immediately.


 

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And Glenn's amp is an amp worth checking out.
> Built like a tank, sounds like a song.
> I've also been using his adapter to utilize 6F8G/VT-99 tubes.
> Fun!


 

   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The custom built 6AS7 OTL amp by 2359glenn. Clayton SF & Xcalibur255 already have theirs. My should arrive Saturday or Monday. Below, a pix of Clayton SF's table at the NorCal Bay Area Head-Fi meet: Amp is in foreground.


 

 Looks good!!!!!
   
  I want a full report from you guys, too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Impressive table.  Clayton is my new hero.  Seriously.


 


  Yeah, that Clayton fellow is alright. I DO KNOW he's a great neighbor!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Looks good!!!!!
> 
> I want a full report from you guys, too.


 

 Considering you're the Thread Starter, thanks for allowing us a bit of latitude!


----------



## PanamaRed

And Sold. Wow that was fast.


----------



## Silent One

Very reasonable indeed. And dare to say... delicious! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My own Woo Audio amp can't get enough of them Tung-Sol's!


----------



## ckunstadt

YESSSSS
  
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> And Sold. Wow that was fast.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> YESSSSS


 

 It is good to keep the treasured jewels in the Family. Woo Hoo! Someone got some good heirlooms there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> YESSSSS


 







 Another Woo mate!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do love the 596 too but it bugs the hell out me not able to use both NU and TS 6F8G, that slight static/hum kills it for me.  I still use the 596 but only pair with Brimar CV1988, Treasures, or TS BGRP.


 


  I am using the 596 with the TS BGRP 6F8G with no problems at all and also with Reytheon and RCA 6F8G.


----------



## WindyCityCy

My EML hasn't been removed from the box since getting the 596.  Still seem to prefer the EML with the GEC but the 596 vs EML is like Carl Lewis in his prime versus Usain Bolt.  Both are world class.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's said, "_Out of disaster, comes opportunity_." Very likely that some of us would not be enjoying the USAF-596, if not for Glenn seeking a solution to dannie01's problem with his amp and rectifier. I was following the dialogue in real-time (spectating?) and waiting along with others to see if dannie01's WA5-LE/5U4G issues would get resolved.
> 
> Once Clayton SF posted the first pix of the USAF-596, I had to have it!
> 
> ...


----------



## WindyCityCy

OK Clayton.  How much do you have invested in Tubes?  I bet you have more in tubes than most people have in amps/headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The custom built 6AS7 OTL amp by 2359glenn. Clayton SF & Xcalibur255 already have theirs. My should arrive Saturday or Monday. Below, a pix of Clayton SF's table at the NorCal Bay Area Head-Fi meet: Amp is in foreground.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> OK Clayton.  How much do you have invested in Tubes?  I bet you have more in tubes than most people have in amps/headphones


 

 OK. I have nowhere near what Skylab has in his collection, but I do have a few dollars worth of glass merchandise.


----------



## shipsupt

If you think Clayton's table was impressive, you should see his apartment.  He had more amps still packed away in boxes than most people ever consider owning!  You can imagine what was actually set up.  It's an amazing thing to see, and hear. 
   
  And the fact that he's such a great guy is just a bonus.
   
  I was loving hearing my HE5-LE's from the Decware Zen Mini Torii.  It was a meet highlight for me.
   
  Form the limited listen I got to Glenn's amp, we may need a new appreciation thread because people are going to like it!


----------



## grokit

Quote:


hodgjy said:


> Impressive table.  Clayton is my new hero.  Seriously.


 
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> If you think Clayton's table was impressive, you should see his apartment.


 

 I've seen the pics, what a table at the meet and it didn't even include his Woos!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> If you think Clayton's table was impressive, you should see his apartment.  He had more amps still packed away in boxes than most people ever consider owning!  You can imagine what was actually set up.  It's an amazing thing to see, and hear.
> 
> And the fact that he's such a great guy is just a bonus.
> 
> ...


 

 I could be wrong, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it's quite possible that I'm the first person from the 'Unite' thread to witness such wonder inside his listening room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you are absolutely right, that he's a great guy is truly a bonus!
   
  And yes, the custom 6AS7 based OTL amp will need its own appreciation thread. I was looking to start one if Glenn, Xcalibur255 & Clayton SF didn't get to it by the time I unbox my own. I asked Glenn to consider a model name so it could help us with reference (and orders 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) when discussing this bad boy! My amp should drop Saturday... can't wait!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OK. I have nowhere near what Skylab has in his collection, but I do have a few dollars worth of glass merchandise.


 


  Still, knowing the history of _The City_... you might wanna secure a few items.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> My EML hasn't been removed from the box since getting the 596.  Still seem to prefer the EML with the GEC but the 596 vs EML is like Carl Lewis in his prime versus Usain Bolt.  Both are world class.


 


  Well stated! I'd like to have and prefer to have both... at the same time. But, feeling like a GM, the EML rec is trade bait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll repurchase it in autumn for my third go-round. Trust me, I ain't the only one in this thread caught repurchasing somethin'...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Very impressive!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OK. I have nowhere near what Skylab has in his collection, but I do have a few dollars worth of glass merchandise.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Very impressive!


 


  +1


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Very impressive!


 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 


  +2


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to my denon ah-d2000, been really thinking about the d7000...... except i can't find anyone who can say whether or not the sub-bass impact is more/less/the same. everyone whos compared them just says the d7000 is better (duh!). 
   
   
  hmmm....
   
  if i end up getting d7000 and hd 800s.....i might need to upgrade amps soon too!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> listening to my denon ah-d2000, been really thinking about the d7000...... except i can't find anyone who can say whether or not the sub-bass impact is more/less/the same. everyone whos compared them just says the d7000 is better (duh!).
> 
> 
> hmmm....
> ...


 


  From what I recall (when I upgraded form the D2000 to the D7000) the sub bass impact is slightly greater on the D7000s and everything in the bass frequencies is cleaned up very nicely. I actually think they sound quite different all together, A/Bing the two to my ears is a substantial upgrade worthy of the extra cost (some don't feel the same way). After a lot of tries with other headphones, I really think the D7000s are one of the best pairings with Woo non-OTL amps (from my experience the WA6 and SE models). Getting the HD800 and the D7000 might actually be a great purchase because from my understanding, they have very different sound signatures... I actually really want give the HD800s a try down the road too since one of my favorite things with headphones are expansive soundstages and the Senns are supposed to be other-worldy in that sense. To note though, I think the D7000s are the most expansive (soundstage) closed headphone I have ever heard.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> listening to my denon ah-d2000, been really thinking about the d7000...... except i can't find anyone who can say whether or not the sub-bass impact is *more*/less/the same. everyone whos compared them just says the d7000 is better (duh!).
> 
> 
> hmmm....
> ...


 


  In my view, It is not the same. I owned the D5000's - both D2000 and D5000 models share the same drivers. Different drivers for the flagship model and the bad boy does have a deeper sub-bass quality. Using the word "impact," I will say that those notes aren't any louder but there is more down there and with the right recordings you'll know! Well, this is versus the D2000's mind you.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OK. I have nowhere near what Skylab has in his collection, but I do have a few dollars worth of glass merchandise.


 


 One of the few times Hoarding can be seen as acceptable.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I am using the 596 with the TS BGRP 6F8G with no problems at all and also with Reytheon and RCA 6F8G.


 


  I think that is because you are using WA5 and the rectifiers is on the other chassis.


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> OK. I have nowhere near what Skylab has in his collection, but I do have a few dollars worth of glass merchandise.


 


  Ok, Clayton, please expect a bell ring around May time frame.  I will bring sake.


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks everyone for the kind words and enthusiastic encouragement to continue my quest for:
  1) amps;
  2) headphones;
  3) tubes;
  4) adapters; and
  5) great recipes on a shoestring budget.
   
  I'm looking into getting my first closed-back headphones and am wondering if anyone has any opinion on the Audio-Technica ATH-W5000.
   
  Has anyone spotted the ATH-W3000-ANV here in the states?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks everyone for the kind words and enthusiastic encouragement to continue my quest for:
> 1) amps;
> 2) headphones;
> 3) tubes;
> ...


 
   
  I love this headphone but you really need to find the AT HA5000 to make it sing or it will just another AT phones.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I love this headphone but you really need to find the AT HA5000 to make it sing or it will just another AT phones.


 

 Really? Is there no other headphone amp besides the AT HA5000 that could make the ATH-W5000 sing as well?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Really? Is there no other headphone amp besides the AT HA5000 that could make the ATH-W5000 sing as well?


 


  I tried many but nothing come close, I have not have a chance to use the Yamamoto HA02 yet.  I used it on WA22 with the right tubes but still lacking something.  Once more thing it funny on the HA5000/W5000 combo is the source, it sounded the best out of iMod with vCap dock to direct coupled input and it sound better than PWD out.
   
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/yamamoto4/ha02.html


----------



## musicman59

Maybe that what it was bacuse I did not care for the W5000 when I listen to them. I also used to own the W11JPN and loved them aesthetically but did not care for the sound either so I sold them. I just got the W3000ANV last week and it is a different sound to the other two. It is closer to the sound of the ESW10JPN that I like. Their midrage is seductive and adictive. Some people think that they are a little light in bass but I don't think so I thik it is the right amount with good extension (but I am not a basshead) clearly better than the W5000 and W11JPN IMO. The highs are a just a little bright right now but I hope for them to calm down with the use.
  I am not really an Audio Technica fan but I really like the W3000ANV.


----------



## jc9394

The W3000ANV is on my short list too.  When I have the HA5000, it makes both the W5000 and AD2000 sing like no other amp can do.  On top of that, I think the HA5000/W5000 is voiced for female Asian vocal.  Sometime it is scary on how real it sound on Jpop and HKpop.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks everyone for the kind words and enthusiastic encouragement to continue my quest for:
> 1) amps;
> 2) headphones;
> 3) tubes;
> ...


 


  I recommend you have a chat with fellow member and headphone connoisseur MuppetFace.


----------



## CloakedMistborn

How long does it typically take to get a new amp in once you order? I can't stop thinking about the wa6 I ordered three days ago. The wait is killing me. I imagine it's a big difference from the fiio e11 I have now.


----------



## hodgjy

It took 4 weeks for my Woo 3. 
  
  Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> How long does it typically take to get a new amp in once you order? I can't stop thinking about the wa6 I ordered three days ago. The wait is killing me. I imagine it's a big difference from the fiio e11 I have now.


----------



## Silent One

It varies depending on Woo Audio's calendar, events, supplies and existing orders. But, I know what it's like to wait... for a Woo. So, I thought I'd jump in and make waiting less of a distraction.
   
  8 weeks for my _WA 6 Special Edition_ (May-July).


----------



## ckunstadt

3 weeks for me.


----------



## Silent One

My order met three challenges: strong demand; parts; Woo Audio's participation in summer Audio show out of state - had to shut down. And Jack was very good about communicating the status of my order as I endured. Often times, people won't mind waiting a little longer when they know why.


----------



## Csericks

In 2009 my WA6 took about 3 weeks. My new WA2 was ordered on January 15th and arrived at my house on January 27th! I've enjoyed the past few weeks!


----------



## Ahzari

my WA6 took about 3 weeks, but my 6SE took 5 weeks.. it varies on how busy he is.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> How long does it typically take to get a new amp in once you order? I can't stop thinking about the wa6 I ordered three days ago. The wait is killing me. I imagine it's a big difference from the fiio e11 I have now.


 

 Jack will normally get an e-mail to you delineating the arrival date of your purchase. Both times my orders have arrived on time.


----------



## jc9394

My WA6 took over 8 weeks, he need time to source the parts upgrade. According to Jack, my WA6 was the last two with premium upgrade.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> My WA6 took over 8 weeks, he need time to source the parts upgrade. According to Jack, my WA6 was the last two with premium upgrade.


 


  What upgrades did you get?
   
  I purchased one from the classifieds with Blackgates and V-caps.  It blows away the V200 that I had.  The WA6 has an even smoother and more organic sound than the V200 yet maintains a good sized soundstage and good separation.  The V200 was veiled and constricted in comparison.


----------



## jc9394

The premium upgrade package that Woo offered and DACT. It does not have the power of the SE version but the mids are a little better.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> My WA6 took over 8 weeks, he need time to source the parts upgrade. According to Jack, my WA6 was the last two with premium upgrade.


 


  Strange as it may seem, I relished in my wait. Hand-built? Take your time, Jack! During Resale: _"8 week hand-built vacuum tube amp for sale!"_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gotta stay positive and get the premium, right?!


----------



## CloakedMistborn

I don't mind the wait as long as I get an email status update. I ordered a DT880/600 to go with the amp. I should get those in sometime this week. Do y'all think an e11 can power those while I wait for the wa6? I guess I does give me a chance do a slight burn in on the dts if the e11 is up to the task.


----------



## PanamaRed

SOLD
   
  Thanks guys


----------



## shipsupt

I just started listening to a metal base '56 Amperex last night and initial impressions are really, really good. Not a cheap rectifier,but worth it IMHO. I'm comparing to the usual suspects... Princess and EML. That tube should go fast at that price. If I hadn't sourced one recently I'd jump on it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I just started listening to a metal base '56 Amperex last night and initial impressions are really, really good. Not a cheap rectifier,but worth it IMHO. I'm comparing to the usual suspects... Princess and EML. That tube should go fast at that price. If I hadn't sourced one recently I'd jump on it.


 


  is that for like the WA6-SE?


----------



## cacatalysis

I did not have the metal based, only normal based Mullard GZ34.  The following comments are from my experience with WA22 driving HD650 recabled with cardas balance.  The Mullard GZ34 is great for HD650 (better than either EML or 596), tighten the base and opens the top.   Seamaster has a great review about tube rolling in WA22 with HD650.  I completely agree with him that the combination of 6F8G/GZ34 is excellent.  He only tried GEC 6SA7g as power tube.  I compared GEC with TS7236, and preferred the latter by a significant margin.  With TS7236/TS6F8G/Mullard GZ34, my HD650 is transformed into a different phone for the better. Textured from bottom to top, excellent base impact, rich mid  and a treble with no lack of sparkle.  I still prefer the recabled HD800 (with TS7236/RCA 6F8G/596), but only slightly.  Most importantly, they have different tonal balance.


----------



## Rawrbington

i got this old turntable up and runing.
  sounds great through my 650s.
  it really meshes very nicely with my vintage receiver.
  some how it makes it seem like theres more synergy with the pioneer and my senns.
   
  anyways,
  how can i run the TT through my woo?
  could i tape loop through the pioneer?
  im assuming the phono level rca out of the TT won't work well going straight into the woo.
   
  what about a stand alone phono stage?


----------



## hodgjy

The tape loop out will work just fine as long as your receiver has a true phono stage.
   
  If you want to bypass your receiver, you will need a phono stage because the signal from the turntable is way too low in voltage for an amp to really handle, and you'll also need RIAA equalization.
   
  You can spend uber money on a phono stage.  But, I do know a lot of people really like this one, especially since it has a tube in its path.
   
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BLVP130
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i got this old turntable up and runing.
> sounds great through my 650s.
> it really meshes very nicely with my vintage receiver.
> some how it makes it seem like theres more synergy with the pioneer and my senns.
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks hodgjy.
   
  got Magic Potion by The Black Keys.
  sounds pretty nice.
  strangely i think the record is really warped for a "new" lp.


----------



## hodgjy

Ya, a lot of new vinyl is poor quality, unfortunately.  180 gram vinyl is your best bet for new pressings.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thanks hodgjy.
> 
> got Magic Potion by The Black Keys.
> sounds pretty nice.
> strangely i think the record is really warped for a "new" lp.


----------



## john57

The reason that vinyl records that are already wraped in the first place is that not enough cooling time in the press and by the time the record is out of the press it is still warm and warping can still occur while the record cools down more. That would be one reason. You sometimes can put the record in its sleve and use books on top of it on a flat surface for a day or two. You can see if that will work.


----------



## Ahzari

will listening to vinyl vs digital tracks be a "relatively" different audio experience? I was considering purchasing a vinyl disk player and connecting to my setup.. and if so, any recommendations for some entry level but good players?


----------



## snapple10

I am also interested in the answer, looking to get into vinyl


----------



## Rawrbington

it seems to be a little different.
  the first thing i noticed was the drums sounded more "live"
   
  i should mention that the cartridge that came on the table i got is an old shure cart(old enough that its actually "shure brothers") that was known to be thick on the bottom end.  so that might have something to do with it.


----------



## shipsupt

Yes, I'm using it in my 6SE.
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> is that for like the WA6-SE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> is that for like the WA6-SE?


 


  Did you buy the metal based Amperex rec from PanamaRed?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i wish lol.
   
  im still planning on just buying hd 800s and also maybe upgrading to d7000 (snapple10 is gonna let me try them out so i can see if they're worth it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## hodgjy

IMO, they are different.  Although, with the improvement of CD players, the difference isn't as large as it once was.  In general, CDs have a little bit of edginess to them and the dynamic range can often seem a little compressed.  Good vinyl, to my ears, is a little more fluid, a hint warmer, and the dynamic range is a little more natural.  It's an analog signal through every part of the chain, so it sounds analog.  It's a hint more musical.  For example, take a cymbal crash.  The pitch, tone, hit, and decay sound more natural on vinyl when they can sound a hint more harsh on a CD.
   
  But, doing vinyl right can cost a lot more than doing CDs right, or even HD tracks on your computer right.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> will listening to vinyl vs digital tracks be a "relatively" different audio experience? I was considering purchasing a vinyl disk player and connecting to my setup.. and if so, any recommendations for some entry level but good players?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> *The tape loop out will work just fine as long as your receiver has a true phono stage.*
> 
> If you want to bypass your receiver, you will need a phono stage because the signal from the turntable is way too low in voltage for an amp to really handle, and you'll also need RIAA equalization.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That is what I use on my 2265B to WA22/beta22


----------



## john57

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> IMO, they are different.  Although, with the improvement of CD players, the difference isn't as large as it once was.  In general, CDs have a little bit of edginess to them and the dynamic range can often seem a little compressed.  Good vinyl, to my ears, is a little more fluid, a hint warmer, and the dynamic range is a little more natural.  It's an analog signal through every part of the chain, so it sounds analog.  It's a hint more musical.  For example, take a cymbal crash.  The pitch, tone, hit, and decay sound more natural on vinyl when they can sound a hint more harsh on a CD.
> 
> But, doing vinyl right can cost a lot more than doing CDs right, or even HD tracks on your computer right.


 


  [size=medium]I will agree that the quality difference between vinyl and CD’s are not as great as it was. No matter how careful I am with cleaning and setup for vinyl the sound quality will start to deteriorate after the third playing of the record. While the dynamic range of CD can be greater with some of my recording, the dynamic range of vinyl appears to be more natural.  I had special anti-static soft record sleeves but the records still managed to acquire slight scratches that I will hear at playback. Last weekend I went to an open house to hear some $40K speakers with a vinyl playback system. I do not think that some recording engineers of today are as good as the old timers in regards of recording of unamplified concerts. My favorite turntable cartridge is the Sumiko Blue Point which I enjoy much better than some of my Shure's best cartridges. The Sumiko Blue Point hits my sweet spot of cost vs. sound quality. [/size]


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]I will agree that the quality difference between vinyl and CD’s are not as great as it was. No matter how careful I am with cleaning and setup for vinyl the sound quality will start to deteriorate after the third playing of the record. While the dynamic range of CD can be greater with some of my recording, the dynamic range of vinyl appears to be more natural.  I had special anti-static soft record sleeves but the records still managed to acquire slight scratches that I will hear at playback. Last weekend I went to an open house to hear some $40K speakers with a vinyl playback system. I do not think that some recording engineers of today are as good as the old timers in regards of recording of unamplified concerts. My favorite turntable cartridge is the Sumiko Blue Point which I enjoy much better than some of my Shure's best cartridges. The Sumiko Blue Point hits my sweet spot of cost vs. sound quality. [/size]


 
   
  My favorite cartridge is the Sumiko Blue Point No.2. Is your favorite the Sumiko Blue Point Special?
   
  Also, how did the scratches sound on a $40K speaker system?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i wish lol.
> 
> im still planning on just buying hd 800s and also maybe upgrading to d7000 (snapple10 is gonna let me try them out so i can see if they're worth it
> 
> ...


 


  Well that was certainly worth waking up to! I'll have to thank snapple10...  just saved me from shipping my own pair out to you.


----------



## hodgjy

Even though this is a Woo thread, I'm going to post in response to a directed question.
   
  The Trafomatic arrived today.  I've only been listening for about an hour so far, but I can already hear what a fine piece of equipment this is.  I have never heard such a sound.  I thought my Woo 3 was incredible, but this takes things to a whole other level.  The sound stage is huge.  Very 3-D and holographic.  The instrumental locations are truly exquisite.  The sound is fluid without being too warm.  It's a fairly neutral sound, but very fluid and musical.  Truly incredible.  I'll have more impressions after I spend some more time getting to know her.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I want a full report by the end of this week.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Even though this is a Woo thread, I'm going to post in response to a directed question.
> 
> The Trafomatic arrived today.  I've only been listening for about an hour so far, but I can already hear what a fine piece of equipment this is.  I have never heard such a sound.  I thought my Woo 3 was incredible, but this takes things to a whole other level.  The sound stage is huge.  Very 3-D and holographic.  The instrumental locations are truly exquisite.  The sound is fluid without being too warm.  It's a fairly neutral sound, but very fluid and musical.  Truly incredible.  I'll have more impressions after I spend some more time getting to know her.


 

 Wait... must we wait for a pix, while you get all cozy and stuff with your new wonder? I've a fresh and delicate bowl of tea being served in ten minutes...


----------



## hodgjy

Pics to come later this evening.  Stay tuned!!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wait... must we wait for a pix, while you get all cozy and stuff with your new wonder? I've a fresh and delicate bowl of tea being served in ten minutes...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Pics to come later this evening.  Stay tuned!!


 


_Ok, I'll sip very s-l-o-w-l-y and leave one of my three computer screens dedicated to the hodgjy show..._


----------



## hodgjy

Ok, I'll take a pic soon.  But, you do realize that requires getting off the couch and taking my HD600s off my head.  Just a few more songs..........
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Ok, I'll sip very s-l-o-w-l-y and leave one of my three computer screens dedicated to the hodgjy show..._


----------



## hodgjy

And, the Trafomatic comes home.... She takes her rightful place next to the Asgard.  My little WA3 is still in timeout.
   

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Ok, I'll sip very s-l-o-w-l-y and leave one of my three computer screens dedicated to the hodgjy show..._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> And, the Trafomatic comes home.... She takes her rightful place next to the Asgard.  My little WA3 is still in timeout.


 

 Nice...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> And, the Trafomatic comes home.... She takes her rightful place next to the Asgard.  My little WA3 is still in timeout.


 


  Thanks! Now I can't wait for your FULL review just after dinner... (kidding!). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're in a wonderful place, hodgjy. Wish I could say the same for the WA3.


----------



## hodgjy

Thank you.  I am in a happy place.  The WA3 will get fixed.  She'll find a happy home, whether it is in mine or with someone else who can love her as much as I did.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're in a wonderful place, hodgjy. Wish I could say the same for the WA3.


----------



## Rawrbington

oh man that looks awesome!
  what is this Transfomatic you speak of?
  never heard of it.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks!  It sounds even better than it looks! 
   
  The Trafomatic is made in Serbia.  It's transformer coupled so can drive all headphone impedances.  Uses Russian tubes (no western equivalents, so no tube rolling) that are very linear.  Great sound.
   
  Here are some web pages about the amp.  It's a well kept secret, but boy, it shouldn't be.  It sounds lovely.
   
  http://www.trafomaticaudio.com/experience_head_one.php
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/trafomatic3/headone_2.html

  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh man that looks awesome!
> what is this Transfomatic you speak of?
> never heard of it.


----------



## shipsupt

No tube rolling! You may need a new avatar!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> No tube rolling! You may need a new avatar!


 

 Just amend it to "ROLLED."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh man that looks awesome!
> what is this Transfomatic you speak of?
> never heard of it.


 


  A bit ironic, you tripped over it on your way here... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but hodgjy is still our brother!


----------



## PanamaRed

Any So Cal'ers heading down to the record show on Sunday?
   
  http://www.asavinyl.com/record_show.htm


----------



## Silent One

No. But, if the pickin's are good, I might have to send a proxy next time!


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No. But, if the pickin's are good, I might have to send a proxy next time!


 


  Hehe. The pickin's are always good. But japanese dealers usually get first dibs in the parking lot around 4:30 a.m.


----------



## Silent One

Just scanned the published list on-hand; pickin's are good. When I return to SoCal let's do one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm usually up @ 0430 most Sunday mornings, contemplating sunrise, breakfast, brunch, sports...


----------



## hodgjy

And, I'll always be a Woosian.  My WA3 was my first step into premium/boutique audio.  You never forget your first.  
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> No tube rolling! You may need a new avatar!


 


   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just amend it to "ROLLED."


 


   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> A bit ironic, you tripped over it on your way here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

My_ WA 6 Special Edition_ welcomes a new mate into the family...
   
   

   
   
   
  Based on the custom built 6AS7 OTL amp's Silver face and all Black body, I shall affectionately dub it _Silver Hawk_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pending further research and model name from 2359glenn.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Did Glenn spray the tranny and chokes in semi-gloss for you like you were talking about?  It does look a little better that way, better matching.  Keep an eye on that DuMont though, as it can be prone to humming depending upon how it settled when inserted.  I wouldn't use it full time, just wanted to give you an idea of what something other than a 3DG4 sounds like in the amp.
   
  Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## hodgjy

Gorgeous!  Congratulations!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> My_ WA 6 Special Edition_ welcomes a new mate into the family...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My_ WA 6 Special Edition_ welcomes a new mate into the family...
> 
> Based on the custom built 6AS7 OTL amp's Silver face and all Black body, I shall affectionately dub it _Silver Hawk_.
> 
> ...


 

 What a close-knit family of amp people we are. When I first saw the photo of your new GlennAmp I thought: I don't remember this setup and then realized that it wasn't a photo of amp BUT yours!
   
  Great Job, Glenn. Great Amp, Silent One. Xcalibur255--I'm gathering CDs to burn for you this weekend! I found a few more last night that I think you'll enjoy.
   
  What's next?


----------



## Silent One

Playtime interrupted - Doctor's appointment @ 1500 hours. 




   
  Disaster struck early. Key cog on bottom of 3DG4 rec broke on insertion. I gently put it in but then thought, "How 'bout some deoxit gold?!" When I went to remove the tube, the bottom plastic cog remained in amp. So now using the Dumont 5V3. Got the Tung-Sol 5998's in; Raytheon 6SN7W. 
   
  Speed round - only had time to hear a few tracks back and forth. @ Clayton 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Big Lovin' Woman" - Shemekia Copeland  was among them! Impressions to come later tonight. First observation? Soundstage is reversed. Not sure if this is the tubes - interconnects are correct.
   
_Man, having the blinds wide open for daylight ruined my shot!_


----------



## john57

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Did Glenn spray the tranny and chokes in semi-gloss for you like you were talking about?  It does look a little better that way, better matching.  Keep an eye on that DuMont though, as it can be prone to humming depending upon how it settled when inserted.  I wouldn't use it full time, just wanted to give you an idea of what something other than a 3DG4 sounds like in the amp.
> 
> Congrats and enjoy!


 


 Glenn painted my choke black. He had already had the amp packed but took it apart to remove the choke and painted the choke black let it dry overnight with heat lamp and put it back together, repack and send it to me with no questions asked. I lke the silver black combination


----------



## Silent One

I think Semi-gloss Black would do nicely. Mine is flat. Having seen Clayton SF's, I think unpainted looks best!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Playtime interrupted - Doctor's appointment @ 1500 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I have a speical test CD that confirmed that my left and right channels are correct all the way to the amp. The 3DG4 is one of the most powerful Rectifier tube in its class.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> What a close-knit family of amp people we are. When I first saw the photo of your new GlennAmp I thought: I don't remember this setup and then realized that it wasn't a photo of amp BUT yours!
> 
> Great Job, Glenn. Great Amp, Silent One. Xcalibur255--I'm gathering CDs to burn for you this weekend! I found a few more last night that I think you'll enjoy.
> 
> What's next?


 


  Thanks so much for going to all that trouble.  I'm looking forward to listening.
   
  The new 5998 mode has inspired me to re-try my entire 6SN7 collection, and I've been thinking about posting my listening notes in the 6SN7 thread.  It's long winded though so I'm not sure yet.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I think Semi-gloss Black would do nicely. Mine is flat. Having seen Clayton SF's, I think unpainted looks best!


 


  It must be the lighting in your photo then.  Your painted parts seemed to have a bit more of a sheen that matched the aluminum better.


----------



## PanamaRed

Anyone interested in a T1? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/597767/beyerdynamic-t1-tesla-1-essentially-new-very-low-use-mint


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Playtime interrupted - Doctor's appointment @ 1500 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You can probably see how the keyway on the 3DG4 is oriented and still insert the tube correctly. But if you put it in one pin off the 3 volt heater will get 5 volts. the pins of a 3DG4 are
  one pin off from a 5 volt tube. This allows me to wire the socket to take 5 volt rectifiers and the 3DG4. 5 volt rectifiers pins 2&8 = filament/cathode 4&6 plates 3DG4 3&1=filament/cathode
  5&7 plates.
     If you want me to send you a new 3DG4 I can ship it tomorrow.
    I do know that the right and left are correct you can check by only plugging in one RCA plug lets say right and see if the sound comes out of the right side of your phone. Maybe your
  WA6 is opposite and you are used to it that way.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Anyone interested in a T1?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
.


----------



## Ahzari

very nice 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> My_ WA 6 Special Edition_ welcomes a new mate into the family...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

Congrats on the new _Silverhawk_ *SilentOne*! What's the early verdict, an upgrade or more of a sidestep to your SE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> You can probably see how the keyway on the 3DG4 is oriented and still insert the tube correctly. But if you put it in one pin off the 3 volt heater will get 5 volts. the pins of a 3DG4 are
> one pin off from a 5 volt tube. This allows me to wire the socket to take 5 volt rectifiers and the 3DG4. 5 volt rectifiers pins 2&8 = filament/cathode 4&6 plates 3DG4 3&1=filament/cathode
> 5&7 plates.
> If you want me to send you a new 3DG4 I can ship it tomorrow.
> ...


 

  
  Thanks. I just returned to the house - a couple of hours before I get free to play around tonight. Would like to try inserting the 3DG4 after figuring out pin layout. If I cannot, either I'll buy one 2 February or perhaps you can send one. I've no idea of cost; availability. But it sounds like a tube I really want to hear!
   
  I have an open mind - thought it might be the Woo that's reversed. Except, the presentation is the same for the Woo, Pioneer and portables. I can always switch the interconnects, but I am curious what the RCA's out will present when connected to the Woo.
   
  Trust me, a reversal in soundstage ain't enough to stop me... _on a Friday night, no less!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congrats on the new _Silverhawk_ *SilentOne*! What's the early verdict, an upgrade or more of a sidestep to your SE?


 

 Thanks, grokit. Just returned to the house; haven't gotten to really play with it, so impressions are on hold. Will also need some hours on it. But I will certainly know more at midnight! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm viewing this as a compliment to my Woo at the moment. But if things work out in the next couple of weeks, I'll push the Woo out the door... _and down-the-street! _And then use the proceeds to wrap up some debt; buy new music.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It must be the lighting in your photo then.  Your painted parts seemed to have a bit more of a sheen that matched the aluminum better.


 


  My sessions tend to be late night - flat black or no, it looks great at night! The Maple Butchers block had just enough room for three chassis down to the 1/4 inch... _who knew?!_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. I just returned to the house - a couple of hours before I get free to play around tonight. Would like to try inserting the 3DG4 after figuring out pin layout. If I cannot, either I'll buy one 2 February or perhaps you can send one. I've no idea of cost; availability. But it sounds like a tube I really want to hear!
> 
> I have an open mind - thought it might be the Woo that's reversed. Except, the presentation is the same for the Woo, Pioneer and portables. I can always switch the interconnects, but I am curious what the RCA's out will present when connected to the Woo.
> 
> Trust me, a reversal in soundstage ain't enough to stop me... _on a Friday night, no less!_


 

 Reversal in soundstage? Is that the same as switched channels? The left is on the right... and the right is on the left. Or is reversed sound stage something else?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Reversal in soundstage? Is that the same as switched channels? The left is on the right... and the right is on the left. Or is reversed sound stage something else?


 

 That was my thought too, it's hard to tell if the symptom being described is swapped channels or possibly reversed phase in the signal somewhere.
   
  silent one, 3DG4 tubes are very cheap.  eBay is filled with examples for around $5 or so.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Reversal in soundstage? Is that the same as switched channels? The left is on the right... and the right is on the left. Or is reversed sound stage something else?


 


  Switched channels - placement of notes from instruments and vocals are swapped. Though, main vocals are centered or nearly so, with background vocals on either side - sometimes blended and centered. But guitars, pianos, synths, percussion, bass are often favored slightly to one side in many recordings. I am now hearing familiar songs with the presentation reversed.
   
  What if the polarity is switched at the 1/4" headphone jack? I'll have some answers post dinner. It's always possible that the other amps and portables simply have it reversed. Playing a CD in both my CD player and then DVD stand alone player will shed light.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That was my thought too, it's hard to tell if the symptom being described is swapped channels or possibly reversed phase in the signal somewhere.
> 
> silent one, 3DG4 tubes are very cheap.  eBay is filled with examples for around $5 or so.


 

 Had I known this at the time my heart sunk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... thanks, my BP is back to normal.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I have a speical test CD that confirmed that my left and right channels are correct all the way to the amp. The 3DG4 is one of the most powerful Rectifier tube in its class.


 


  I haven't rolled the 3DG4 back in just yet. But, the fear of my D7000's starving @ 25ohms have been laid to rest - gots plenty of power and whatever else I could be needing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Didn't know in advance if things would sound anemic...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That was my thought too, it's hard to tell if the symptom being described is swapped channels or possibly reversed phase in the signal somewhere.
> 
> silent one, 3DG4 tubes are very cheap.  eBay is filled with examples for around $5 or so.


 
  It can't be phase reversal the 6SN7 reverses the phase then 1/2 of the 6AS7 reverses it back so the phase is the same as going into the amp. The amp will sound
  radically different then a WA6-SE with output transformers.


----------



## john57

When I said 3DG4 is one of the most powerful Rectifier tube in its class I did not mean that the maximum power is limited by other rectifier tubes but it has one of the lowest voltage drop at high current levels. This means a higher B+ voltage which changes the sound somewhat and you can hear the difference. It is like a hard or soft control in simplest terms. While the 3DG4 filament uses more current it is actually uses less power than some 5 volts rectifier tubes since wattage = volts x amps. In addition the 3DG4 is a very reliable tube. I have tried six different rectifier tubes in my amp not counting the different getter configurations found even on the 3DG4 tube as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It can't be phase reversal the 6SN7 reverses the phase then 1/2 of the 6AS7 reverses it back so the phase is the same as going into the amp. The amp will sound
> radically different then a WA6-SE with output transformers.


 

 When you say "radically different," do you mean the soundstage presented could have different placement of notes between the two amps?


----------



## Silent One

I wouldn't dare change my username from 'Silent One' to 'Special One' nor would I deserve to. But, I would like to give a special thanks to 2359glenn and Xcalibur255 for being great head-fiers. And they certainly made me feel like the special one on Friday...


----------



## 2359glenn

Hello Anthony
   
  I don't how the output is reversed I checked with my HD650s but who knows what I did a easy fix. Tyrell had me change the pot
  to a V-Lab stepped attenuator that does the low level volume much better. I should switch to that pot but trying to keep the cost
  down I make very little on the amp as it is.
   
  But over  all how does it sound??


----------



## hodgjy

I posted a mini-review of my Trafomatic over in its appropriate thread. 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/381405/trafomatic-experience-head-one/120#post_8176509
   
  What an amazing amp.  I have named it _Layer Cake_ because that's what it is.  An impressive 3-D wall of sound with layer upon layer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hello Anthony
> 
> I don't how the output is reversed I checked with my HD650s but who knows what I did a easy fix. Tyrell had me change the pot
> to a V-Lab stepped attenuator that does the low level volume much better. I should switch to that pot but trying to keep the cost
> ...


 

 I not only understand your margins, but also your wonderful and tremendous effort to bring audiophiles (and fellow members) satisfaction. Unsure how the amp is reversed... but it is. Trivial in the scheme of great things to come. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Won't be breaking up the audio rack and sending it back 'til summer. Sounds nice - the Woo finally has a playmate. Will try the pre-amp to Woo this evening...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I posted a mini-review of my Trafomatic over in its appropriate thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/381405/trafomatic-experience-head-one/120#post_8176509
> 
> What an amazing amp.  I have named it _Layer Cake_ because that's what it is.  An impressive 3-D wall of sound with layer upon layer.


 


  Thanks for being proper. Will head over there after a snack...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Based on the custom built 6AS7 OTL amp's Silver face and all Black body, I shall affectionately dub it _Silver Hawk_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have named it _Layer Cake_ because that's what it is.  An impressive 3-D wall of sound with layer upon layer.


 
   
  You gents crack me up.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_Silver Hawk. Layer Cake._
  I call my setup the _Woo Zoo. _Or the _Wall 'o Woos_ (with appologies to CEE TEE).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I just love it here.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You gents crack me up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I love it there, too! You created quite the space in _The City That Knows How_. _Silver Hawk_ makes a reference to Kitty Hawk, NC. But I don't see it going past this weekend. Eventually, when I return the amp to Glenn for a touch up in June, I want it blacked out (you knew it was just a matter of time... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). I'm still playing with the Woo's playmate - unable to just sit down and focus until later tonight, as I am working. And rolling in between tasks... 




   
  I adjusted my Profile to make sure Glenn gets the recognition he deserves.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

really enjoying the K701 these days. i rarely used to listen to them in the past, they would just sit on the plastic akg stand that came with them.
   
  just realized how much detail the akg have. alot of detail without sounding overly bright. and the mids are just amazingly good coming out of the woos (the tubes really do a great job at adding much needed weight and warmth to the mids)
   
  still missing my T1.


----------



## Silent One

The D7000's drop?!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nope, usps tracking said they would be delivered today. guess the truck didn't arrive at the post office until 2pm, and they didn't try to deliver or anything, so now i have to wait until monday.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Kinda hoping the amp gets a name too, it makes it more personal.  I have yet to attach a nickname to mine, though the upcoming amp I'm having made already has a name even though it doesn't exist yet.  When I decided to shoot for having my "end game" amp I knew immediately what I would call it.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I love it there, too! You created quite the space in _The City That Knows How_. _Silver Hawk_ makes a reference to Kitty Hawk, NC. But I don't see it going past this weekend. Eventually, when I return the amp to Glenn for a touch up in June, I want it blacked out (you knew it was just a matter of time...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Blacked out? Like totally black? Right now everything is black save the facia. So are you replacing it with a black facia as well?
  How do you like the sound of your new amp? Why don't you listen to a monaural recording if the notes end up sitting on the wrong side of the stage when in stereo and tell me what you think of the sound. Of course, when you have gathered your thoughts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Kinda hoping the amp gets a name too, it makes it more personal.  I have yet to attach a nickname to mine, though the upcoming amp I'm having made already has a name even though it doesn't exist yet.  When I decided to shoot for having my "end game" amp I knew immediately what I would call it.


 

 So... how long will we have to wait to delight in its name?




   
  I'd much prefer the model name come from the maker. I simply made a reference to Kitty hawk on the designer's behalf. A model name really would help us sling it around the forum though... 'cause that's what we do, right? 
   
  I just returned to the house for the night - no more running around, time for business inside the listening room. Well, after some HD Dulce de Leche. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But in 90 minutes thereabouts, I'm gonna fire up everything with a On/Off switch on the audio rack and get some answers... or at least more of 'em.
   
  Funny but, prior to taking delivery of the OTL, I had long heard WA3; WA2; WA22 & WA5/LE owners talk about their tubes "Pinging & Ringing." Never heard such things with the _6 Special Edition_ before. 
   
  Now, during warm up and cool down I am reminded of submarines.


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, the 6AS7 family of tubes are some of the potentially most noisy and microphonic tubes out there.  But, they do sound wonderful.  I love the sound of the RCA 6AS7G, sometimes even more so than the legendary 5998.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now, during warm up and cool down I am reminded of submarines.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Blacked out? Like totally black? Right now everything is black save the facia. So are you replacing it with a black facia as well?
> How do you like the sound of your new amp? Why don't you listen to a monaural recording if the notes end up sitting on the wrong side of the stage when in stereo and tell me what you think of the sound. Of course, when you have gathered your thoughts.


 

 Yes, the simple addition of a Black face-plate would return the mystery to my overnight sessions... _elegantly so. _Only have 9 hours on the OTL at this writing. Been working hard at getting more. It even seems like I should have 20! But the log confirms 9...
   
  I think the amp sounds nice. Both amps are loved but have very different character. Will hot swap the Woo & OTL between a short playlist tonight and get a better feel for things, as I search for a tube compliment that I'll enjoy with the new amp.
   
  Surprisingly... and pleasantly, the cheap Russians Glenn threw in are the quietest!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Yep, the 6AS7 family of tubes are some of the potentially most noisy and microphonic tubes out there.  But, they do sound wonderful.  I love the sound of the RCA 6AS7G, sometimes even more so than the legendary 5998.


 

  
  The CEI Electron Tube 6AS7G is startling quiet. No hum, no ping, no ring and sounds laid back. So far, I'm really gettin' with this stranger...


----------



## hodgjy

Are you talking about the Svetlana 6H13C?  If so, that is a vastly underrated tube.  Quiet and warm sounding.  Linear.  But, it does have a hint of a veil, but nothing that good driver tubes can't overcome.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Surprisingly... and pleasantly, the cheap Russians Glenn threw in are the quietest!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Are you talking about the Svetlana 6H13C?  If so, that is a vastly underrated tube.  Quiet and warm sounding.  Linear.  But, it does have a hint of a veil, but nothing that good driver tubes can't overcome.


 

 Don't know the mfg now that I realize the tube may not pair to the original box. But the glass reads 6AS7G...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The CEI Electron Tube 6AS7G is startling quiet. No hum, no ping, no ring and sounds laid back. So far, I'm really gettin' with this stranger...


 

 Those are really re branded Svetlana 6H13C They can also handle more power then a US 6AS7 .  When I modded the amp for Xcaliber255 to optimize 5998s (lower cathode resistance)
  and tried these tubes the amp really had drive for low impedance phones. Not many OTL amps can drive low impedance phones well but when set up this way it had no problem 
  They ran at 120ma plate current I don't recommend trying this with US 6AS7s but the 6H13Cs don't mind this high current at all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nope, usps tracking said they would be delivered today. guess the truck didn't arrive at the post office until 2pm, and they didn't try to deliver or anything, so now i have to wait until monday.


 

 Victim of Nationwide cutbacks...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Those are really re branded Svetlana 6H13C They can also handle more power then a US 6AS7 .  When I modded the amp for Xcaliber255 to optimize 5998s (lower cathode resistance)
> and tried these tubes the amp really had drive for low impedance phones. Not many OTL amps can drive low impedance phones well but when set up this way it had no problem
> They ran at 120ma plate current I don't recommend trying this with US 6AS7s but the 6H13Cs don't mind this high current at all.


 

 Between the Svetlana, Sylvania and Tung-Sol, the TS-5998 is BIG BOLD & SCREAMS power! But also the noisiest. The Tung-Sol returns the biggest presentation out of the bunch; greater depth and detail. But is aggressive and lacks a bit of separation and refinement; has noisy background. Does seem to have the most promise with most tracks.
   
  Though not as punchy with Bass and percussion, the Svetlana's have a greater ease to its presentation; could listen longer. Also returns a more organic sounding Bass without its own mid-bass getting in the way. I really like this quality...
   
  So this "switch" will reign the 5998's in a bit and allow a more refined presentation?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So... how long will we have to wait to delight in its name?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not so much a model name, assuming other people eventually ask to have this same design built for them, it is just what I intend to call mine.  I'm going to have it engraved on the front panel.
   
_Kanade_
   
  And a concise explanation for it:  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070110103057AAVPY8Q
   
  The word has a special meaning to me actually, and I wanted to apply it to something I knew would also be special.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Between the Svetlana, Sylvania and Tung-Sol, the TS-5998 is BIG BOLD & SCREAMS power! But also the noisiest. The Tung-Sol returns the biggest presentation out of the bunch; greater depth and detail. But is aggressive and lacks a bit of separation and refinement; has noisy background. Does seem to have the most promise with most tracks.
> 
> Though not as punchy with Bass and percussion, the Svetlana's have a greater ease to its presentation; could listen longer. Also returns a more organic sounding Bass without its own mid-bass getting in the way. I really like this quality...
> 
> So this "switch" will reign the 5998's in a bit and allow a more refined presentation?


 

 It's a bit more complex than that.  It doesn't reign them in, it sets them free.  Sound is even bigger, bolder and with more drive and aggression.  They scream power about twice as loudly with the new setting.  Separation improves greatly, as does the sense of air around notes (probably my primary goal for the mod actually).  It does sound more controlled and refined, but only with good material.  With poor recordings it can be fatiguing and too up front, though in the time since I've previously talked about this I have found some 6SN7 combinations that balance this out pretty well.  The sheer resolution and clarity goes up, this was the most surprising to me.  The amp has astonishing transparency in the new setting.  I didn't expect to hear new things in recordings *again* when I got it back but I am. 
   
  Yes, the 5998 are noisy.  All of mine are too, they seem to pick up  interference easily.  It comes and goes actually but isn't loud enough to bother me personally.  I hardly notice it now that I've listened to them long enough.  I think you should try the Sylvania (RCA) 6AS7G I sent you, they might strike a good middle ground you'd enjoy.  I personally prefer the Chatham 6AS7 in that family of tubes, by a long shot, but you did say romantic was a sound you are seeking and RCA is the only name that comes to mind for that.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's a bit more complex than that.  It doesn't reign them in, it sets them free.  Sound is even bigger, bolder and with more drive and aggression.  They scream power about twice as loudly with the new setting.  Separation improves greatly, as does the sense of air around notes (probably my primary goal for the mod actually).  It does sound more controlled and refined, but only with good material.  With poor recordings it can be fatiguing and too up front, though in the time since I've previously talked about this I have found some 6SN7 combinations that balance this out pretty well.  The sheer resolution and clarity goes up, this was the most surprising to me.  The amp has astonishing transparency in the new setting.  I didn't expect to hear new things in recordings *again* when I got it back but I am.
> 
> *Yes, the 5998 are noisy.  All of mine are too, they seem to pick up  interference easily. * It comes and goes actually but isn't loud enough to bother me personally.  I hardly notice it now that I've listened to them long enough.  I think you should try the Sylvania (RCA) 6AS7G I sent you, they might strike a good middle ground you'd enjoy.  I personally prefer the Chatham 6AS7 in that family of tubes, by a long shot, but you did say romantic was a sound you are seeking and RCA is the only name that comes to mind for that.


 

 My first pair were quite noisy, but I've been able to get a hold of 2 pairs (sold one pair, keeping the other) that are as quiet as my 7236s. They're out there...but harder to find nowadays.


----------



## hodgjy

The GE 6AS7GA is another surprisingly good tube.  Best part is they are about $10 a piece.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Not so much a model name, assuming other people eventually ask to have this same design built for them, it is just what I intend to call mine.  I'm going to have it engraved on the front panel.
> 
> _Kanade_
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, this indeed is special... thanks for sharing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's a bit more complex than that.  It doesn't reign them in, it sets them free.  Sound is even bigger, bolder and with more drive and aggression.  They scream power about twice as loudly with the new setting.  Separation improves greatly, as does the sense of air around notes (probably my primary goal for the mod actually).  It does sound more controlled and refined, but only with good material.  With poor recordings it can be fatiguing and too up front, though in the time since I've previously talked about this I have found some 6SN7 combinations that balance this out pretty well.  The sheer resolution and clarity goes up, this was the most surprising to me.  The amp has astonishing transparency in the new setting.  I didn't expect to hear new things in recordings *again* when I got it back but I am.
> 
> Yes, the 5998 are noisy.  All of mine are too, they seem to pick up  interference easily.  It comes and goes actually but isn't loud enough to bother me personally.  I hardly notice it now that I've listened to them long enough.  I think you should try the Sylvania (RCA) 6AS7G I sent you, they might strike a good middle ground you'd enjoy.  I personally prefer the Chatham 6AS7 in that family of tubes, by a long shot, but you did say romantic was a sound you are seeking and RCA is the only name that comes to mind for that.


 

 The 5998's are very noisy. The background is marred - no turning up the volume to mask; always there. But it does have a few very nice attributes. In my case, the Denon's are so easy to drive, I wouldn't be surprised if they're simply getting overwhelmed with those tubes.
   
  I intend to try shipsupt's HD600's; Clayton's HD650. I've a feeling some resistance could help in this regard. The right cans could really help me enjoy that mod. I just fired up the Woo for warm up - my first head-to-head looms in 60 minutes. I went 5V3 on the rec for a few hours and think I prefer the 3DG4.
   
  Spent the afternoon searching for Drive combos. The TS-BGRP's didn't really offer anything over the Raytheon. At this writing the latter sounds better with the Russians and 3DG4. The Sylvania GTA's sound pretty decent but the RCA Grey Glass 6SN7GT came up short. Will roll the GE GTA's and Hitachi GTB next hour...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> My first pair were quite noisy, but I've been able to get a hold of 2 pairs (sold one pair, keeping the other) that are as quiet as my 7236s. They're out there...but harder to find nowadays.


 
  Just to clarity, I didn't really mean noisy in general so much as noisy in this particular application.  My bad.


----------



## hodgjy

I found the background noise in my 5998 to be more than I'd like.  In contrast, my Asgard has a blacker background, for example.  The 5998 is a neat tube, but it does have its flaws.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Just to clarity, I didn't really mean noisy in general so much as noisy in this particular application.  My bad.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The 5998's are very noisy. The background is marred - no turning up the volume to mask; always there. But it does have a few very nice attributes. In my case, the Denon's are so easy to drive, I wouldn't be surprised if they're simply getting overwhelmed with those tubes.
> 
> I intend to try shipsupt's HD600's; Clayton's HD650. I've a feeling some resistance could help in this regard. The right cans could really help me enjoy that mod. I just fired up the Woo for warm up - my first head-to-head looms in 60 minutes. I went 5V3 on the rec for a few hours and think I prefer the 3DG4.
> 
> Spent the afternoon searching for Drive combos. The TS-BGRP's didn't really offer anything over the Raytheon. At this writing the latter sounds better with the Russians and 3DG4. The Sylvania GTA's sound pretty decent but the RCA Grey Glass 6SN7GT came up short. Will roll the GE GTA's and Hitachi GTB next hour...


 

 If I recall the Denon's are more sensitive than my AGKs are so it's likely the noise is worse in your case.  I have some cheapo Panasonic cans that are really high sensitivity and when I plugged them in the noise became *NOISE* so it is definitely headphone dependent.  I suspect something low sensitivity and/or higher impedance would bring some quiet to the equation, but for me the hum is barely there and easily dismissible.  It seems to be much worse than that for you.
   
  I actually prefer the 3DG4 myself as well, even though there are things I really like about the 5V3.  The 3DG4 comveys emotion in the music better and feels more nuanced, in exchange for what sounds to me like less dynamic contrast and a slightly less propulsive bottom end.  When I focused on vocals it was the 3DG4 that called to me every time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I found the background noise in my 5998 to be more than I'd like.  In contrast, my Asgard has a blacker background, for example.  The 5998 is a neat tube, but it does have its flaws.


 

 It's found some love from me at least.  The mod for the amp proved pretty successfully that the tube is underutilized in a 6AS7G amp I think.  When I went back to the 6AS7 I had a hard time adjusting, it felt like a wet blanket had been thrown over the music.  Easier on the ears, but much less truthful.  Ideally I'd love to have both, but I tend to have a hard time going back to the former after hearing the latter when forced to pick only one.
   
  I also happen to think they are the coolest looking tube around, and have such a handsome glow with those exposed filaments.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's found some love from me at least.  The mod for the amp proved pretty successfully that the tube is underutilized in a 6AS7G amp I think.  When I went back to the 6AS7 I had a hard time adjusting, it felt like a wet blanket had been thrown over the music.  Easier on the ears, but much less truthful.  Ideally I'd love to have both, but I tend to have a hard time going back to the former after hearing the latter when forced to pick only one.
> 
> I also happen to think they are the coolest looking tube around, and have such a handsome glow with those exposed filaments.


 

 So, the 5998 mod returned greater detail? After putting more hours on it, did whatever initially bother you get itself straightened out? Currently in-session with the Woo in the head2head. But the last two tracks I played on the OTL? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My goodness! The 5998's were rocking the house! "Computer Blue" - Prince and "When the World Is Running Down (You Make the Best of What's Still Around) - The Police. When listening to the latter, the instrumental break that comes @ the 1:48 minute mark through 2:20, I cranked it! _The Tung-Sol's had the D7000's puttin' in work!!! _


----------



## Rawrbington

1 pair of my 5998's are dead quiet with all my cans
  the other 2 pairs have a slight hum with my higher sensitivity cans


----------



## Silent One

When I'm out cycling past the SCE transformers and hear them humming. Ok, not that loud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It shall all be moot with higher impedance, lower sensitivity cans... there is hope for the Silent One! Nonetheless, very excited to have new gear!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> really enjoying *the K701* these days. *i rarely used to listen to them in the past, they would just sit on the plastic akg stand that came with them.*
> 
> just realized how much detail the akg have. alot of detail without sounding overly bright. and the mids are just amazingly good coming out of the woos (the tubes really do a great job at adding much needed weight and warmth to the mids)
> 
> still missing my T1.


 

 Dubstep Girl, if you keep giving the K701's the _silent treatment_, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you may want to consider selling them to Silent One this spring...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im liking them right now. but i might get rid of them when i buy hd 800s.....


----------



## hodgjy

It's hard for me to describe the noise from my 5998 because I don't have the lexicon to do so.  The 5998 doesn't hum or squeal.  It doesn't have static.  It's just not as black sounding.  When I use my other amps, or even other tubes for that matter, it's like the sound comes out of nowhere--a totally black background.  With the 5998, I know where the sound is coming.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> 1 pair of my 5998's are dead quiet with all my cans
> the other 2 pairs have a slight hum with my higher sensitivity cans


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just hooked up the LCD-2 directly to the WA6-SE (not using the WA2 as pre-amp).
   
  the sound completely changed. from mellow and euphonic to open and dynamic. its very cool!


----------



## hodgjy

That's the difference between the output transformer in the WA6 and the output tubes in the OTL WA2 driving the entire chain.  It is very cool to have such different gear to fancy different listening tastes at different times!  Congrats, and enjoy!
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just hooked up the LCD-2 directly to the WA6-SE (not using the WA2 as pre-amp).
> 
> the sound completely changed. from mellow and euphonic to open and dynamic. its very cool!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just hooked up the LCD-2 directly to the WA6-SE (not using the WA2 as pre-amp).
> 
> the sound completely changed. from mellow and euphonic to open and dynamic. its very cool!


 


  its interesting that they're is such a big difference when you changed the setup, like hodjy said though, its good to have both to suit all your audio needs.


----------



## Silent One

Haven't gotten around to hearing my _6 Special Edition _sound cool and spacey with the OTL pre-amp. My auxiliary pair of Wireworld interconnects have 1/4" mono terminations; need adapters. Then perhaps, will re-terminate for longer term...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Haven't gotten around to hearing my _6 Special Edition _sound cool and spacey with the OTL pre-amp. My auxiliary pair of Wireworld interconnects have 1/4" mono terminations; need adapters. Then perhaps, will re-terminate for longer term...


 

 Did you buy a new amp?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Did you buy a new amp?


 








 _Spring is in the air..._


----------



## thrak

Just rolled-out Miss Sophia in the ol' 6SE in exchange for the EML 274B.  Brand new glass, no burn-in, just warmup.  Interesting to say the least.  First impression is that I prefer it over the Sophia (at least with the 6GL7's).  More detail, smoother & more controlled highs, darker blackground, better dynamics.  Not sure about the bass yet.  It does have a hum at very high volumes with no music playing (say past 3PM) where the Sophia made a different sort of "noise".  To me it sounded like people talking in the next room.  Although, this is neither here nor there as I never get to those levels when actually listening to music.
   
  Does the EML surpass the Sophia or is this just new-toy syndrome?  Time will tell....


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Spring is in the air..._


 

 Whoa!  Is it me or does the Woo looks pissed off!


----------



## hodgjy

I love new toy syndrome.  It puts a spring in my step.
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> is this just new-toy syndrome?  Time will tell....


----------



## Silent One

I kind of liken it to seeing a concert: same musical group but different venues. Once saw Sade four times in three weeks during a tour in the '90's. The differences could be heard - her group sounded great at each stop but the sound presented was just a bit different.
   
  I started out with Miss Sophia.  But when the EML Glass showed up, it was a welcoming change, I really like their 5U4G rec!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Whoa!  Is it me or does the Woo looks pissed off!


 


  I expect some hazing but will try to handle it during my listening sessions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OTL still needs time on the clock. Currently in-session with Angela Bofill (Angel of the Night). She's gonna make me melt... _like chocolate outside a July picnic!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OTL's presentation has more depth, dimension and layers than the Woo at this writing... appx 40 hours on the ODO.


----------



## Silent One

By chance, anyone get a chance to hear the new AKG K550 headphones?
   
   




   
   
   
   
http://www.headphone.com/headphones/akg-k-550.php


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I kind of liken it to seeing a concert: same musical group but different venues. Once saw Sade four times in three weeks during a tour in the '90's. The differences could be heard - her group sounded great at each stop but the sound presented was just a bit different.
> 
> I started out with Miss Sophia.  But when the EML Glass showed up, it was a welcoming change, I really like their 5U4G rec!


 

  
  Actually, the 5U4G is next up at bat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think I'll give the 274B a few weeks at least so as to give it a chance to entrench itself in my audio psyche before rolling it out.  If it keeps sounding like this, though, it may be a while before it gets swapped out.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> By chance, anyone get a chance to hear the new AKG K550 headphones?
> 
> http://www.headphone.com/headphones/akg-k-550.php


 

  
  MuppetFace has posted a few impressions around HF.  Doesn't sound too promising...


----------



## hodgjy

Ever since HK bought out AKG, I haven't been too interested in their new product offerings.  Maybe the 550 will surprise.  Others around here have liked it, so don't let one bad review by MuppetFace discourage your exploration.
  
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> MuppetFace has posted a few impressions around HF.  Doesn't sound too promising...


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, thrak; hodgjy. I sometimes have concern when a company is bought out, taken over. Especially when it's in this hobby! Last thing I need is to buy junk based on historic reputation.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Ever since HK bought out AKG, I haven't been too interested in their new product offerings.  Maybe the 550 will surprise.  Others around here have liked it, so don't let one bad review by MuppetFace discourage your exploration.


 

  
  I find these very appealing visually and as I am still looking around for closed portables I was very interested in these.  My discouragement came after reading a few of the threads here.  You're absolutely right in that we should never go by one voice alone.  Her's just happened to be the one to put the last nail on the coffin for me.  I'd still love to hear them (and to be surprised) but at this point I am hesitant to buy them ear-unheard


----------



## Rawrbington

i finally kinda sorta solved my audio tower / stand for my stuff.
  got this wire shelving from home depot.  19 dollars.
  just hope it doesn't collapse from the weight.
  says 750 lbs evenly distributed.
  so i figure it can do 100 unevenly


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's hard for me to describe the noise from my 5998 because I don't have the lexicon to do so.  The 5998 doesn't hum or squeal.  It doesn't have static.  It's just not as black sounding.  When I use my other amps, or even other tubes for that matter, it's like the sound comes out of nowhere--a totally black background.  With the 5998, I know where the sound is coming.


 


  That suggests the overall noise floor of the entire system is higher with the 5998.  I hear where you are coming from with this, I too think the background is blacker with a 6AS7, but the 5998 has so many other strengths it doesn't weigh it down much.  None of the humming I get with my tubes is coming from the circuit in my case.  They pick up some kind of unusual interference from the LCD monitors the amp shares desk space with.  If I unplug the monitors the 5998 are basically silent.  The hum I hear from this is very much an electrical sound, it pulsates and gets stronger and weaker and occasionally disappears completely for short periods of time.  Sounds exactly like standing near a power substation really, only much less obvious.


----------



## hodgjy

I spy an incredibly awesome cave.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i finally kinda sorta solved my audio tower / stand for my stuff.
> got this wire shelving from home depot.  19 dollars.
> just hope it doesn't collapse from the weight.
> says 750 lbs evenly distributed.
> so i figure it can do 100 unevenly


----------



## hodgjy

Oh, I love the 5998.  It's my favorite power tube.  I do love the RCA 6AS7G at times because it seduces me at times like a midnight temptress, but my go to tube is the 5998.  As you said, its strengths greatly outweigh its weaknesses.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That suggests the overall noise floor of the entire system is higher with the 5998.  I hear where you are coming from with this, I too think the background is blacker with a 6AS7, but the 5998 has so many other strengths it doesn't weigh it down much.  None of the humming I get with my tubes is coming from the circuit in my case.  They pick up some kind of unusual interference from the LCD monitors the amp shares desk space with.  If I unplug the monitors the 5998 are basically silent.  The hum I hear from this is very much an electrical sound, it pulsates and gets stronger and weaker and occasionally disappears completely for short periods of time.  Sounds exactly like standing near a power substation really, only much less obvious.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

All the talk over the last few pages about noisy 5998s has surprised me.  One of the highest priorities for me is a dead quiet background, and the 5998s I have in my WA2 are completely silent.  
   
  Now I'm thinking that I'm lucky to have purchased a silent pair, and with prices soaring and availability shrinking on these (mine are NOS) if I wanted to get a backup pair, what are the chances that they would be as quiet as the ones I currently have . . .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i finally kinda sorta solved my audio tower / stand for my stuff.
> got this wire shelving from home depot.  19 dollars.
> just hope it doesn't collapse from the weight.
> says 750 lbs evenly distributed.
> so i figure it can do 100 unevenly


 


  Spring cleaning? Great to put some shape to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Although, I must admit, I tried very hard to peer around the far edge of the photographs looking for LP's...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> All the talk over the last few pages about noisy 5998s has surprised me.  One of the highest priorities for me is a dead quiet background, and the 5998s I have in my WA2 are completely silent.
> 
> Now I'm thinking that I'm lucky to have purchased a silent pair, and with prices soaring and availability shrinking on these (mine are NOS) if I wanted to get a backup pair, what are the chances that they would be as quiet as the ones I currently have . . .


 


  It's really pretty circuit dependent.  The noise I get really isn't the tubes fault I would say, just like having a cellphone or other radio interference that a tube might pick up.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That suggests the overall noise floor of the entire system is higher with the 5998.  I hear where you are coming from with this, I too think the background is blacker with a 6AS7, but the 5998 has so many other strengths it doesn't weigh it down much.  None of the humming I get with my tubes is coming from the circuit in my case.  They pick up some kind of unusual interference from the LCD monitors the amp shares desk space with.  If I unplug the monitors the 5998 are basically silent.  The hum I hear from this is very much an electrical sound, it pulsates and gets stronger and weaker and occasionally disappears completely for short periods of time.  Sounds exactly like standing near a power substation really, only much less obvious.


 







 Maybe I should turn off the three LCD's and computers and see what happens...


----------



## hodgjy

My WA3 is a pretty noisy girl to begin with, which is why she is still sitting in time out.
  
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It's really pretty circuit dependent.  The noise I get really isn't the tubes fault I would say, just like having a cellphone or other radio interference that a tube might pick up.


----------



## Silent One

Good thing you modified your description of events from last week, regarding the WA3! The young readership could easily misconstrue "her being boxed up, bound (tied-up?) and made to stay in the closet," as you put it... or something like that!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Spring cleaning? Great to put some shape to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  my collection of LPs is small.  just starting. only have about a dozen
  but i did score Dire Straights self titled at the record store for 4$.
  great album
  but then the used copy of Nebraska that i got is all sorts of scratched up.
  a little mad i paid 8 bucks for it
   
  on the tube subject,
  i find the rca 6as7 to be much nosier than the ts 5998
  but maybe i just got lucky with my ts tube purchases


----------



## hodgjy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good thing you modified your description of events from last week, regarding the WA3! The young readership could easily misconstrue "her being boxed up, bound (tied-up?) and made to stay in the closet," as you put it... or something like that!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i finally kinda sorta solved my audio tower / stand for my stuff.
> got this wire shelving from home depot.  19 dollars.
> just hope it doesn't collapse from the weight.
> says 750 lbs evenly distributed.
> so i figure it can do 100 unevenly


 

 I'd put some granite tiles from HomeDepot under the equipment, to reduce microphonics.


----------



## Silent One

Additionally, while the levels of EMI/RFI vary from one listening room to the next, metal can potentially (and often does) broadcast the stuff (bad). Not everyone is stricken, but I'm writing out of awareness.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'd put some granite tiles from HomeDepot under the equipment, to reduce microphonics.


 


  thats a great idea, my first thought was just wood or cardboard even.  but the tile would be nice.  and probably not too expensive for just 6 or so


----------



## Zombie_X

I use blocks of Mapple wood. My dad takes the scrap home from where he works and cuts it into the right sizes.  That's why my speakers and WA3+ are on blocks, and so is MMF5 turntable. They really do absorb lots of vibrations and resonances. Under mine I have sorbothane feet to help even more.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats a great idea, my first thought was just wood or cardboard even.  but the tile would be nice.  and probably not too expensive for just 6 or so


----------



## sunmonkey

And on the topic of isolation platforms, maple, and all things audio-tacular, I can heartily recommend this guy for those in the US (and outside, if you are willing to foot the shipping costs):
   
http://www.timbernation.com
   
  Nice guy, and he's willing to put together anything you want if you have the specs or even a vague description. I bought two 4" maple blocks for my Meadowlark Swallows, and the workmanship is top notch.


----------



## Silent One

Great! Can never have too many good sources... _going over there right now._


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> And on the topic of isolation platforms, maple, and all things audio-tacular, I can heartily recommend this guy for those in the US (and outside, if you are willing to foot the shipping costs):
> 
> http://www.timbernation.com
> 
> Nice guy, and he's willing to put together anything you want if you have the specs or even a vague description. I bought two 4" maple blocks for my Meadowlark Swallows, and the workmanship is top notch.


 
   
  Wow. Looks great. I'm afraid to ask how much a full rack would cost.


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Wow. Looks great. I'm afraid to ask how much a full rack would cost.


 

 If you drill down (and sideways) into the website, the five shelf 2" racks start in the low teens and, depending on finish and wood, go up from there. But shew boy, they will outlast us all. I dig the simplicity of his design, and the sheer weight of the pieces. I estimate my two little 12x9x4" platforms are in the neighborhood of 15 lbs each.


----------



## Silent One

Even outside isolation tweaks, I really like wood inside the listening room and inside the home in general. It's very pleasing to be around.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> If you drill down (and sideways) into the website, the five shelf 2" racks start in the low teens and, depending on finish and wood, go up from there. But shew boy, they will outlast us all. I dig the simplicity of his design, and the sheer weight of the pieces. I estimate my two little 12x9x4" platforms are in the neighborhood of 15 lbs each.


 

 Wow. His prices are really quite reasonable considering it is all hand made from some thick gorgeous american wood. I love wood and quality american goods so I think I'll be keeping a close eye on this site. Thanks sunmonkey


----------



## Silent One

I had been intending to put 1.5" Black coated brass spikes between my Woo and Maple platform, just never finished saving for it.


----------



## john57

Personally I do not spikes since it is too easy for the spikes to dig or scratch the wood or the equipment bellow it. At the RMAF I almost moved the amp that was on top of the power supply while trying to plug in the T1 headphones at the show. I do not like spikes on speakers either and the spikes will try to drill a hole in the floor with all of the vibration that loudspeakers produce.
   
  I would feel better with something like this maybe.
   
  Valab Audio Vibration Isolation Damper Feet
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270761812920?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  I like to use Soft Silicone half ball feet but the problem with them is that they wiggle to much and can pull the finish off from wood. You have to get the right isolation feet to the weight of the equipment.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the link. In my case, digging into the wood is precisely what I'd like. My Maple block was specifically bought for this application, not the kitchen. But I can understand if one has furniture - racks, cabinets and such.
   
  And agree, stability with some components can be an issue...


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Personally I do not spikes since it is too easy for the spikes to dig or scratch the wood or the equipment bellow it.


 

 John, I definitely hear you, but I agree with SilentOne that the "dig" is key to getting the most from a good wood isolation base. As much as I hated to mar the surface of the maple platforms, the moment the cones made solid contact and got good bite, was then the transducer's energy was finally being poured into creating sound and not cabinet vibration.
   
  Yeah, not sure I'd be bold enough to put cones *on top* of other equipment. That makes me sad just thinking about it. But most cone sets come with the little seating discs that the points fit into, no? Seems like that would minimize potential scratching from jostling. But this is a good point: are cones needed for electrical kit? For speakers, yes, I get it. But for amps and the like ... I've always wondered.
   
  I fear the day when I peel back the carpeting and look at what the carpet spikes on my Snell AIII "refrigerators" have done to my sub-flooring. But till that day, ignorance is bliss!


----------



## sunmonkey

To answer my own question: I suppose cones also make sense on equipment most sensitive to vibration: CDPs and tube-based components come to mind. So, for Woos, seems like it might be an interesting addition.


----------



## Silent One

A quantity of 8 spikes 1.5" can be had for $66 plus tax. I like 'em at this price! The maker's name escapes me but some exhibitors had them in play at RMAF. Found 'em! It's Dedicated Audio.
   
http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/2571/5591


----------



## jamesnz

I just bought some of these:
   
  http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-724
   
  Seem to work very well.


----------



## john57

One of the headphone amps that I was talking about previously that has the cones is the Dark Star at the RMAF.
http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/dark-star
   
  It is just seems too easy to knock the amp off the power unit when you have friends over to listen, plugging in with different headphones in my opinion. It is something I would have to be careful with. I would personally use a different arrangement in setting up with the amp. I do agree that the cones or spikes needs something to bite into for maximum performance of isolation. A heavy platform with wood or soft metal inserts may be a possible idea to try in some cases.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> One of the headphone amps that I was talking about previously that has the cones is the Dark Star at the RMAF.
> http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/dark-star
> 
> It is just seems too easy to knock the amp off the power unit when you have friends over to listen, plugging in with different headphones in my opinion. It is something I would have to be careful with. I would personally use a different arrangement in setting up with the amp. I do agree that the cones or spikes needs something to bite into for maximum performance of isolation. A heavy platform with wood or soft metal inserts may be a possible idea to try in some cases.


 


  After visiting your link, this could very well be the one's I had trouble remembering early this morning. Still not sure... but still sleepy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The cones Mach2music used underneath a Mac mini looked great!


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote:


silent one said:


> After visiting your link, this could very well be the one's I had trouble remembering early this morning. Still not sure... but still sleepy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Another way to keep the Mac Mini stable is an adhesive pad available from MacSales.  It will work with the 2010 model and newer.  It costs only $8.00, and can be seen here.
   
  I'm not sure if it would help with vibration as well as cones, but my Mini sits on a lacquered maple shelf and would tend to slide around even when inserting CDs to rip, as well as when plugging/unplugging USB cables, etc.  This pad solves the problem.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> Quote:
> 
> Another way to keep the Mac Mini stable is an adhesive pad available from MacSales.  It will work with the 2010 model and newer.  It costs only $8.00, and can be seen here.
> 
> I'm not sure if it would help with vibration as well as cones, but my Mini sits on a lacquered maple shelf and would tend to slide around even when inserting CDs to rip, as well as when plugging/unplugging USB cables, etc.  This pad solves the problem.


 

 Another excellent option for both the Mac mini and the Woo is Tri-Absorbers from VIA BLUE of Germany. My Mac, _Supercharged_ W4S DAC-1 and E-MU Interface all proudly sit on Tri-Absorbers. 
   

   

   
   
  I purchased mine from aphroditecu29.com


----------



## hodgjy

I just put my amps on computer mouse pads I bought at Big Lots for $0.99 each.  Reduces vibrations.  They don't look as fancy as spikes, though!!!!


----------



## CloakedMistborn

Woo! My wa6 shipped today!


----------



## Silent One

_More money for music and tubes without a doubt. _One of the key features I like about the Tri-Absorbers is its flexibility. I move things around often inside the listening room and these give me independence from a single rack or single cabinet and space.
   
  Take touring, for example, when I take my rig out to a mini meet, the library or shiptsupt's residence, I need not worry too much about_ "where." _Throw them bad boys down like dominoes _and get on with the show!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> Woo! My wa6 shipped today!


 


  This is great to hear on a Monday... congrats... and welcome to the 'Unite' thread!


----------



## hodgjy

You read my mind!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _More money for music and tubes without a doubt._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You read my mind!


 

 Like, say... two peas in a music pod? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Be sure to re-read the edit though...


----------



## hodgjy

I like spikes/feet and see their utility.  I'm just too cheap to get them.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Like, say... two peas in a music pod?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I like spikes/feet and see their utility.  I'm just too cheap to get them.


 


  I like saving money too. Inside my room I think "Hollywood." And borrow ideas and items from somewhere else and adapt them to my needs for audio.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> Woo! My wa6 shipped today!


 

 Congratulations and welcome!
  That was quick, yes?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


 


  Clayton, is "London calling?" Your location suggests you're getting ready for the Summer Olympics. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I remember the song as well, a fav of one of my clients.


----------



## hodgjy

Tonight's session: Pink Floyd's "The Delicate Sound of Thunder Live".  It's fantastic.  I do enjoy the Russian interpretation of it (6S45P triodes).


----------



## Xcalibur255

My WA6 is for sale in the trade forum in case anybody might be interested:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/598339/fs-woo-audio-wa6-in-perfect-condition-free-shipping-lots-of-extra-tubes-included#post_8183045
   
  It was a joy to have her, but my future amp plans have need for the funds selling it will raise so I've reluctantly made the decision.


----------



## hodgjy

Mark this day in history because we've entered a whole new world. I just made my first purchase on eBay. Welcome to the 2000s, Jay.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Mark this day in history because we've entered a whole new world. I just made my first purchase on eBay. Welcome to the 2000s, Jay.


 


  Haha, and I thought I was the last one when I started last year.  I registered for eBay in the year 2000 and bought my first item there in the year 2010, highly amused at myself the entire time I might add.
   
  In the 10 years in-between the account was hijacked (and subsequently recovered by eBay fraud specialists) 3 times because I never paid any attention to it.


----------



## hodgjy

I signed up tonight!


----------



## shipsupt

I certainly hope you continue to stay tuned to Wooville here. I for one have appreciated your impressions here. You are a valuable contributer to this little sub-community of Head-Fi.

Thanks, and good luck with your sale.





xcalibur255 said:


> My WA6 is for sale in the trade forum in case anybody might be interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/598339/fs-woo-audio-wa6-in-perfect-condition-free-shipping-lots-of-extra-tubes-included#post_8183045
> 
> It was a joy to have her, but my future amp plans have need for the funds selling it will raise so I've reluctantly made the decision.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats hodgjy! I reluctantly signed up a few years back to import music CD's from HK; Mainland; Taiwan... or be left out!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I certainly hope you continue to stay tuned to Wooville here. I for one have appreciated your impressions here. You are a valuable contributer to this little sub-community of Head-Fi.
> Thanks, and good luck with your sale.


 


  I concur! Post # 19295 was aimed at you, by-the-way...


----------



## hodgjy

I know this is huge stretch of your imagination, but I wanted to buy some tubes from Russia.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Congrats hodgjy! I reluctantly signed up a few years back to import music CD's from HK; Mainland; Taiwan... or be left out!


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I certainly hope you continue to stay tuned to Wooville here. I for one have appreciated your impressions here. You are a valuable contributer to this little sub-community of Head-Fi.
> Thanks, and good luck with your sale.


 


  I'll be around, assuming I don't get thrown out.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


silent one said:


> I concur!


 
  X3, don't be a stranger *Xcalibur255*


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I'm looking for a backup pair of TS 5998s for my WA2.  I'd like a closely matched pair of NOS, if possible.  I know they're going to cost me, if I can find them at all.  Does anyone know where these might be found currently?  
   
  I'd hate for something to happen to the pair I have; they're just about permanently installed in my WA2.  I figure that if I pay top $$$ for a 2nd pair, then the ones I have will last forever.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My favorite combination of tubes for the WA2 are the 5998s, along with Mullard E88CCs, and Amperex Bugle Boy EZ80 rectifiers.  I've lately been pulling out and ripping some older CDs that I haven't listened to with this combination (HD800s are usually on the end of this chain), and tonight I've got Alison Krauss's 'Forget About It.' going right now.  Smooth, warm, and an absolutely silent background.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Gosh I already have it sold.  I knew Woo amps went fast here but wow.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Gosh I already have it sold.  I knew Woo amps went fast here but wow.


 







  Ding ding ding ding ding!!!!


----------



## Ahzari

Hey Woo-friends, decided to sell the EML 5u4g and keep the Sophia, if anyone is interested PM me or check out the my link in the "for sale" forum.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/598387/eml-5u4g-mesh-plate-rectifier-tube


----------



## Sid-Fi

I just ordered my new WA22 in black! 
   
  I have been using a Audio-gd NFB-10WM DAC/amp combo for the last year or so. Now I'll use the balanced DAC only out to the WA22. I have a feeling I am in for a wee bit of an improvement. Can't wait!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Gosh I already have it sold.  I knew Woo amps went fast here but wow.


 

 Congrats, and don't forget to invite the lucky buyer to participate here


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I just ordered my new WA22 in black!
> 
> I have been using a Audio-gd NFB-10WM DAC/amp combo for the last year or so. Now I'll use the balanced DAC only out to the WA22. I have a feeling I am in for a wee bit of an improvement. Can't wait!


 


  Congrats! We're looking forward to your impressions and contributions. Your color selection is fantastique!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congrats, and don't forget to invite the lucky buyer to participate here


 


  Yeah, make up something... all Woo Audio amp buyers have to announce in this thread and return with impressions!


----------



## Silent One

Waiting for Dubstep Girl to come out and play. Snapple10's D7000's should have dropped today. And DG has three Woo Audio amp configs to get impressions with, so...


----------



## sunmonkey

Dagnab, a guy passes out with the flu for 24 hours and the thread advances 4 pages: Woos pass hands, online auction sites are joined _and purchased from, _and Dubstep Girl goes missing. This thread has more happening than the aquarium.
   
  SilentOne: the time is approaching. Wink wink, nudge nudge. I don't want to announce anything too early. These things, they are an art.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Dagnab, a guy passes out with the flu for 24 hours and the thread advances 4 pages: Woos pass hands, online auction sites are joined _and purchased from, _and Dubstep Girl goes missing. This thread has more happening than the aquarium.
> 
> SilentOne: the time is approaching. Wink wink, nudge nudge. I don't want to announce anything too early. These things, they are an art.


 






 You're good! In a single reply to this thread, you pretty much covered the day in the life of Head-Fi. True, other threads have their moments... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BUT this thread needs monitoring! And yes, I find you to be very artful. Hope you feel better or you're gonna have homework here in these pages!


----------



## PanamaRed

The WA22 / HD800 combo is currently pumping out:
   

   
  ... and all is good


----------



## hodgjy

Dubstep Girl probably daisy chained 12 amps/pre-amps together to get the largest and most euphonic sound stage in the history of the planet.  In doing so, she may have pulled off the head-fi equivalent of crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.  And now, dogs and cats are living together.
   
  Or, she could simply be studying for midterms.  I'm giving my midterm today.
  
  Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Dagnab, a guy passes out with the flu for 24 hours and the thread advances 4 pages: Woos pass hands, online auction sites are joined _and purchased from, _and Dubstep Girl goes missing. This thread has more happening than the aquarium.
> 
> SilentOne: the time is approaching. Wink wink, nudge nudge. I don't want to announce anything too early. These things, they are an art.


----------



## sunmonkey

This is one of the funniest things I've read on head-fi so far. This, and the meme a couple dozen pages back, "Yo dog, I hooked a woo to a woo and...".
   
  Music cannot travel faster than the speed of euphony, right? You'd hit a euphonic barrier. Einstein predicted it while listening to a Django Reinhardt cylinder on a phonograph powered by the atomic pile under the stadium at the University of Chicago. _<why did I type that?>_
   
  If Dubstep has undeed unleashed Gozer the Gozerian, I'm going out listening to Miles Davis On The Corner and with a smile on my face.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Dubstep Girl probably daisy chained 12 amps/pre-amps together to get the largest and most euphonic sound stage in the history of the planet.  In doing so, she may have pulled off the head-fi equivalent of crossing the streams in Ghostbusters.  And now, dogs and cats are living together.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol!!!!
   
   
  umm yeah i got the denons yesterday, i am listening to them today. 
   
  i just love the build quality on them. could be better for their price, especially on the headband, but its an improvement over the d2000.
   
  ill be sure to give my impressions soon enough.
   
  so far the biggest improvement besides detail and sound quality is the sound stage. its just perfect! 
   
   
  also regarding my T1, it has been a while since i sent them in, so i decided to call the repair center yesterday. they told me that they had to order a part or something and it was taking a while for them to get it, but it should be here early next week at the latest. so hopefully ill have my t1 back in a week or 2.


----------



## Silent One

In World News Today...
   
  ... The Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite thread is celebrating the reappearance of Head-Fi extraordinaire, Dubstep Girl. Yesterday, in a case of mistaken identity, witnesses erroneously reported seeing her on the beach in Cancun, sporting Monster Turbine Pro Gold. We can now confirm she is Stateside, studying for mid-terms and surfacing on Head-Fi when time permits.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> The WA22 / HD800 combo is currently pumping out:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and all is good


 


  You're hittin' pretty hard for a Tuesday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Guess that's the beauty of music, I suppose. Enjoy it whenever possible.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im listening to the denon ah-d7000 with the lawton mod, i really love their soundstage depth.
   
  the quality is way better than the d2000, and they work for every genre alot better because of this. the d2000 did as well, but the d7000 are just amazing with some types of music. the bass comes out when it needs to, adds weight when it should, and stays of the way when its not needed.  
   
  they have a bit less bass, but its alot cleaner than the d2000. its tighter and punchier as well. i personally enjoyed the looseness and long decay the sub-bass has on the d2000. i'm guessing that the d7000 just seems to have less bass because its been modded. the d2000 cause of this also seem to sound a bit more hollower and with more recessed mids. the d7000 have a very full sound to them that makes them very fun to listen to.
   
   
  so far, im liking them alot and i think i'm definitely going to have to get myself a pair of stock d7000. if i don't like them, i'll just pay for the mod later.
   
   
  ive been listening with the WA6/WA2 combo. ill have to try combinations out later. also, the d7000 are slightly harder to drive than the d2000.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im listening to the denon ah-d7000 with the lawton mod, i really love their soundstage depth.
> 
> the quality is way better than the d2000, and they work for every genre alot better because of this. the d2000 did as well, but the d7000 are just amazing with some types of music. the bass comes out when it needs to, adds weight when it should, and stays of the way when its not needed.
> 
> ...


 

 This is great to hear! And though my Denon's are not modded, I definitely share your view about its amazing cross-genre ability. This makes for nice all-around cans to compliment one's collection. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the D7000/WA2 pairing alone.
   
  I will only do 'Lawton' if I could hear one side-by-side. While I don't like sloppy Bass, too many people that tweak for tighter Bass (allegedly) end up with fewer calories. Wait, I'm hungry. I mean a bit lighter in Bass/Sub-Bass. Not always by a lot, but Sub-Bass is important for percussion and other notes in the region. I use to play around in a 24-Track Studio and isolating channels and following the music was fascinating. And recorded several samples of a given track to learn it better. The fear Treble-heads have in my view is overblown. But what do I know? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm very excited that a fellow member is sending me his HE-6's to audition. I know it'll likely choke the Woo up around its poor little neck, but still curious. I'm bringing them in for the Vintage amp, but while they're here, may as well put 'em thru the paces with everything I've got... iPod included! Ok, that's pure excitement talking...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im listening to the denon ah-d7000 with the lawton mod, i really love their soundstage depth.
> 
> the quality is way better than the d2000, and they work for every genre alot better because of this. the d2000 did as well, but the d7000 are just amazing with some types of music. the bass comes out when it needs to, adds weight when it should, and stays of the way when its not needed.
> 
> ...


 

 I haven't heard the Lawton mod on the D7000s, but the decay is awesome on my pair (stock) and like you said the soundstage is really impressive too. I haven't been able to find a pair of closed back headphones that sound this impressive to me; I even preferred the D7000s to the T1, but that may come down to personal taste and because I was using the WA6SE not a OTL amp.. Anyway, definitely get a pair! worthy investment I think


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im listening to the denon ah-d7000 with the lawton mod, i really love their soundstage depth.
> 
> the quality is way better than the d2000, and they work for every genre alot better because of this. the d2000 did as well, but the d7000 are just amazing with some types of music. the bass comes out when it needs to, adds weight when it should, and stays of the way when its not needed.
> 
> ...


 

 It's funny that I was reading this while listening to my Stello DA100 Sig > maxed WA6 VT-231/Sophia 274b > LA7000.  I agree with everything you said there about D2000 vs Lawton modded D7000.  I have the full LA7000 with bubinga wood cups, J$ pads, and JL cable.
   
  In the end, even though I had modded my old D2000 to have wood cups and APS V2 cable, the mids and micro-detail could never match my LA7000 and I sold the D2000 after I had the LA7000 for a couple of months.  To me the stock D7000 sounded just like my modded D2000, in side by side comparisons, which is an upgrade over the stock D2000.  But the stock D7000 mids were still recessed.   My LA7000 are a league above any of those, although source and amp are very important with these phones.  The WA6 is a good match with them, as is my EC ZDT.  I bought the ZDT in 2009 to replace the maxed WA6 but could never bring myself to sell the Woo.  Side by side my WA6 sounds exactly like a WA22 in detail, timbre and tone, but with a slightly smaller soundstage and less power.
   
  Anyway, when I started listening to my LA7000 about an hour ago I was using an Audioengine D1 DAC/amp out of my Macbook pro, and it seemed a little too closed in and bland.  I played with the iTunes sound enhancer and EQ for a few minutes, then switched to the Amarra Mini music player.  Still not being satisfied I switched to my DACmini with Amarra, which really opened them up.  But then after a couple of songs I went to the Mac/Stello/WA6 rig and it was a very nice step up and exactly what I was looking for.  I was warming up the WA6 while listening with the SS amps, but once the WA6 is warmed up > look out!
   
  Normally my LA7000 sound a lot like my HE-500 when used in my best rigs, and those are the two phones I use the most in my bedroom rig - HE-500 when I don't need a closed phone, and LA7000 for when my wife is asleep.  But a stock D7000 doesn't have as good treble extension, as full mids, or as tight bass control.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the post, HeadphoneAddict. I'm very curious about the LA7000. My D7000 is stock but without an audition, that is a leap of faith for me. When it comes to full mids vs recessed mids, I won't throw the baby out with the bath water. My front-end would have a say in the matter, as well as amplification. I don't personally don't find the recessed mids overly done. And could even enjoy them raised some, but never full... especially with the disappearance of Bass. A-l-r-i-g-h-t.... with just a tad Bass missing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Admittedly, the cups would matter, so I really cannot say I would not enjoy the LA7000. I may! Would love to share my thoughts when I successfully bring some in for auditioning. If all is good, then I'll go LA this Spring. 
   
  I'd like to see Denon surprise the headphone market with a new flagship the second half of the year.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the post, HeadphoneAddict. I'm very curious about the LA7000. My D7000 is stock but without an audition, that is a leap of faith for me. When it comes to full mids vs recessed mids, I won't throw the baby out with the bath water. My front-end would have a say in the matter, as well as amplification. I don't personally don't find the recessed mids overly done. And could even enjoy them raised some, but never full... especially with the disappearance of Bass. A-l-r-i-g-h-t.... with just a tad Bass missing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  the bass isn't necessarily lost, just the sub-bass seems to lose some of the decay and punch that the d2000 delivers. however, the d2000 also sound quite hollow and muddy compared to the d7000 which is just cleaner in every aspect. 
   
  based on headphoneaddicts input and everyone elses as well, it seems that i will like the stock d7000 more, as long as it doesn't sound too recessed, thats what i willl end up buying. 
   
  but yeah, i'm liking the modded so far because the highs aren't as harsh as the d2000, the mids are very good, and the soundstage is perfect, very impressive for a closed headphone. its like being in a studio and the music is just coming out at you with so much energy. its awesome! 
   
  if i lose the punchy midbass, control, and dynamics the modded d7000 are giving me right now, i'll just get them modded for 100 bucks or whatever it costs.
   
   
  i'm listening to the d7000 on the WA2 right now. im amazed at how well the WA2 handles the bass of the d2000. it doesn't distort as fast as on other low impedance. its still not as well driven as with the WA6-SE. but anyways, classical and soft jazz and vocals sound AMAZING! with the D7000 and WA2. it just has a very pleasing and relaxing sound to it. however, everything else doesn't sound as good on the WA2. not enough volume and the D7000 start to sound a tad dark and you lose some much needed detail.
   
  with only the WA6-SE, they sound alot better. like usual, you get alot of punch out of the music.. the bass just really hits hard on some songs with the denons. however, the mids and highs are very forward and clean, so the bass stays in the back. very similar to having a nice well balanced speaker system. however, with the WA6-SE, the bass seems a little too far back compared to what i heard with the WA6-SE/WA2 combo. the mids and highs seem to be more forward and the highs stand out alot more. 
   
  conclusion: WA6-SE + WA2 combo is amazing. perfect balanced of warmth and detail. it just balances everything right, i wish more people could listen to and enjoy this combination....


----------



## WindyCityCy

W4S Music Server Now Shipping!  The manual can be downloaded from this link http://www.wyred4sound.com/uploads/74030/files/227162/Music_Server_manual_and_setup_guide.pdf
   
  Who wants to test the waters?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the bass isn't necessarily lost, just the sub-bass seems to lose some of the decay and punch that the d2000 delivers. however, the d2000 also sound quite hollow and muddy compared to the d7000 which is just cleaner in every aspect.
> 
> based on headphoneaddicts input and everyone elses as well, it seems that i will like the stock d7000 more, as long as it doesn't sound too recessed, thats what i willl end up buying.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your input Dubstep Girl. We're happy reports of you "Missing" were erroneous. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Imagine, you giving up Head-Fi for Cancun... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You could go level 2 with the LA7000-lite for about $450... or appx $700 for an LA7000. It's pleasing to hear the Denon - Woo affair has something to offer. I'm still burning in my OTL amp. Things are moving s-l-o-w-l-y... but not to worry, the best is yet to come!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> W4S Music Server Now Shipping!  The manual can be downloaded from this link http://www.wyred4sound.com/uploads/74030/files/227162/Music_Server_manual_and_setup_guide.pdf
> 
> Who wants to test the waters?


 

 I'll jump if Clint extends a discount for my early adoption! This is a commercially packaged Vortexbox (nuthin' wrong with that). How much are they asking? But I have been unable to re-purpose a computer. By the way, did you modify your SB Touch?
   
   





 Sticker shock!!! I'll do the Open-Source Vortexbox, thank you very much! My Woo would love "Free" all the same.


----------



## WindyCityCy

My SB Touch is stock.  For the price I think it is a great solution.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> My SB Touch is stock.  For the price I think it is a great solution.


 

 It certainly is! I just thought about it for the first time this morning. May get one in March. But it doesn't cost anything to tweak it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even the head guy (or one of them) in Fremont has a write up in the Logitech Squeezebox forum on tweaking the little one! There's more to be had and I just wanna make sure you're gettin' it - Woo-mates, yes?!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

having fun with the d7000 tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  listened to some drake, lil wayne, gorilla zoe and wiz khalifa.
   
  listening to savoy's brand new "miami mix" just released last week or so right now


----------



## Silent One

They're fun cans indeed! I wouldn't be surprised if D7000's we're one of the cans used during Quality Control back in Queens. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (c'mon Jack, back me up!)


----------



## Ahzari

So based on Silent One's recommendation I purchased some WireWorld cables (1m Starlight usb / 1m Aurora 5.2 power cord) and wow, there is a noticeable improvement in clarity and dynamics.. It sounded like some fuzz (that I hadn't even noticed before) was removed from the recordings.
   
  The D7000s now have an even wider soundstage, better 3D imaging, and are overall more neutral than before (mids are peaking their head out more)
   
  With my Signature Pros I am hearing details that I hadn't heard before (from recordings that I had listened to dozens of times)..
   
  Conclusion, so far pretty impressed.
   
  I have a Furman power conditioner coming in on Thursday, hopefully that will continue to improve the music!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So based on Silent One's recommendation I purchased some WireWorld cables (1m Starlight usb / 1m Aurora 5.2 power cord) and wow, there is a noticeable improvement in clarity and dynamics.. It sounded like some fuzz (that I hadn't even noticed before) was removed from the recordings.
> 
> The D7000s now have an even wider soundstage, better 3D imaging, and are overall more neutral than before (mids are peaking their head out more)
> 
> ...


 






   
   I take it 0.5 Meters for the USB would have been too short... good to hear about your gains!


----------



## Ahzari

Haha yea, I couldn't go lower than 1m, but that's a huge reduction from my previous 5m ) plus this is a much better cable. Thanks again for the guidance!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wonder how my audioquest cables compare to other cables....


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wonder how my audioquest cables compare to other cables....


 


  Will they harken to the quiet musing?


----------



## hodgjy

I'm not a big believer in analog cables making big differences in sound, but I do believe digital cables do make a difference.  If they are not the ideal length or properly shielded, bad things can happen.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wonder how my audioquest cables compare to other cables....


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So based on Silent One's recommendation I purchased some WireWorld cables (1m Starlight usb / 1m Aurora 5.2 power cord) and wow, there is a noticeable improvement in clarity and dynamics.. It sounded like some fuzz (that I hadn't even noticed before) was removed from the recordings.
> 
> The D7000s now have an even wider soundstage, better 3D imaging, and are overall more neutral than before (mids are peaking their head out more)
> 
> ...


 


 Yeap! Wireworld cables make a difference. I am in the process of changing all my power cables to Electra 5.2 and Eclipse 6 interconnects. Tha tis also why the Zeus headphone cables are so good. They are made out of the same wires use in the Eclipse 6 interconnects or the Silver Eclipse depending which one you pick.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm not a big believer in analog cables making big differences in sound, but I do believe digital cables do make a difference.  If they are not the ideal length or properly shielded, bad things can happen.


 

 That is an interesting twist since one would think that it is easier to pass 1s and 0s than an electrical signal.
   
  My experience has been just the opposite.


----------



## shipsupt

Looking at Purrin's waterfall plots for the D7000 there is some serious ringing going on. 
   
  The theory of the Markl Mod would seem to address this specifically with the damping. Enough so that I've already beem talking with Mark about getting my D7k modded.  If completed in time before I move to the UK I will get purrin to measure them to see if it cleans things up and supports the positive reports.  Nothing like a little science to support subjective impressions, right?

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for your input Dubstep Girl. We're happy reports of you "Missing" were erroneous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

If there is a degradation in analog signals, you just receive less of the signal and get a little more noise.  If there is a degradation in digital signals, and no error correction, you can potentially get a lot of noise or even complete loss of signal.
  
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> That is an interesting twist since one would think that it is easier to pass 1s and 0s than an electrical signal.
> 
> My experience has been just the opposite.


----------



## archigius

Few days ago i listened to my Woo Audio 6SE and the HD800 with the Emission Labs 5U4G and Zenith 6DE7. Wow!!!
  It was a magic combination!
   
  The HD800 smooths out on treble and gain bass weight with this tubes combination.
   
  I'm seriously thinking of selling the T1 and buy an HD800, but the best thing would be to keep both.
  The T1 has still more impact in the midbass area and this is better for rock, but the soundstage of the 800 with my 6SE was really incredible, expecially with classical music.
   
  I also tried a custom HD800 cable made with the T1 cable and the 800 was way better with the copper cable.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Few days ago i listened to my Woo Audio 6SE and the HD800 with the Emission Labs 5U4G and Zenith 6DE7. Wow!!!
> It was a magic combination!
> 
> The HD800 smooths out on treble and gain bass weight with this tubes combination.
> ...


 



 Try to find a Mullard metal base GZ34, IMHO, it is better than EML 5U4G with HD800.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Few days ago i listened to my Woo Audio 6SE and the HD800 with the Emission Labs 5U4G and Zenith 6DE7. Wow!!!
> It was a magic combination!
> 
> The HD800 smooths out on treble and gain bass weight with this tubes combination.
> ...


 


 Yeap, that is why I am using the Zeus OCC copper in both headphones.


----------



## archigius

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try to find a Mullard metal base GZ34, IMHO, it is better than EML 5U4G with HD800.


 


  Unfortuntely the HD800 was not mine, but i tried various NOS rectifiers, including Mullard GZ34 and GZ37 and a RCA 5U4G, and while the NOS were all warmer and smoother sounding, the EML was airier, more focused and with bigger soundstage.
   
  The Zenith (rebranded RCA) and the EML also paired very well with my T1.
   
  Didn't mention that the source was a fantastic Lector Digicode 2.24:
   
  http://www.lector-audio.com/dc224.htm
   
  really a very good sounding source!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





archigius said:


> Unfortuntely the HD800 was not mine, but i tried various NOS rectifiers, including Mullard GZ34 and GZ37 and a RCA 5U4G, and while the NOS were all warmer and smoother sounding, the EML was airier, more focused and with bigger soundstage.
> 
> The Zenith (rebranded RCA) and the EML also paired very well with my T1.
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed on airier on the EML, the EML have more impact and dynamics.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try to find a Mullard metal base GZ34, IMHO, it is better than EML 5U4G with HD800.


 


  How would you describe the difference in sound between the plastic and metal base GZ34?  It has to do with more than the base, right?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yeap! Wireworld cables make a difference. I am in the process of changing all my power cables to Electra 5.2 and Eclipse 6 interconnects. Tha tis also why the Zeus headphone cables are so good. They are made out of the same wires use in the Eclipse 6 interconnects or the Silver Eclipse depending which one you pick.


 






 My Zeus-Electra-Eclipse cables express with eloquence inside the listening room...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Looking at Purrin's waterfall plots for the D7000 there is some serious ringing going on.
> 
> The theory of the Markl Mod would seem to address this specifically with the damping. Enough so that I've already beem talking with Mark about getting my D7k modded.  If completed in time before I move to the UK I will get purrin to measure them to see if it cleans things up and supports the positive reports.  Nothing like a little science to support subjective impressions, right?


 


  I've been following Purrin's efforts with waterfall plots... fascinating! Also, have been following Mark's research since the Denon flagship broke. He's not the first/last person to make suggestions to a manufacturer and be ignored. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really do hope you get squared with the D7000 before crossing the pond. I know how much we both like the cans and simply want reassurance before giving up and potentially wrecking a known quality.
   
  I'd love to get a listen. If I could audition the LA7000 in March, I may forgo the iPad3, SB Touch and other options on my short-list. Can Mark get you a pair out? So I can come by?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I noticed the pads haven't shipped yet but there is no date posted...
   
  Additionally, I'm bringing in the HE-6 for the SX-650, 1050, 1250. Even if it wows me, the next battle becomes Open vs Closed as preference. The HE-6 & LA7000 will bring answers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yeap, that is why I am using the Zeus OCC copper in both headphones.


 







 I'm not really addicted to Wireworld candy... or am I? What I do know is that it took my Woo to the next level.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> That is an interesting twist since one would think that it is easier to pass 1s and 0s than an electrical signal.
> 
> My experience has been just the opposite.


 


  Now that Audio has learned it's no longer about simply passing 1s & 0s, we'll see an improvement in product design... well, with a few companies at least.


----------



## shipsupt

He could do the mods, but I'm waiting for some of pads to come in so I can do it all in one shot.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've been following Purrin's efforts with waterfall plots... fascinating! Also, have been following Mark's research since the Denon flagship broke. He's not the first/last person to make suggestions to a manufacturer and be ignored.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

The 800 does really well with the 6SE.
   
  I'll have to give the Zenith 6DE7 a roll at some point with the 800's.  While I found the extension to be good and liked the low end impact, I generally found the 6DE7 to be just a little too aggressive for me overall with the 800, especially for treble energy.
   
  I've never considered the 800 to smooth out much of anything, especially the treble.  
   
  Current go to tubes for the HD800 are '56 Amperex metal base 5AR4 and Raytheon, made in Japan, 6EW7's.
   
   
  Quote: 





archigius said:


> Few days ago i listened to my Woo Audio 6SE and the HD800 with the Emission Labs 5U4G and Zenith 6DE7. Wow!!!
> It was a magic combination!
> 
> The HD800 smooths out on treble and gain bass weight with this tubes combination.
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> He could do the mods, but I'm waiting for some of pads to come in so I can do it all in one shot.


 


  Thanks. I'm asking if he could get the LA7000 out to you (existing pair) for auditioning? Any time frame on the pads? What cups did you/will you choose? I want the dark African cups... lacquered!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wonder how my audioquest cables compare to other cables....


 


  The Cable Co. has a lending library of used cables. Gives customers a chance to audition a variety of different cables that they might not otherwise have the opportunity to do so.


----------



## shipsupt

Ah, I didn't ask about an audition... maybe something to consider.
   
  No time frame on the pads.  But expecting it to be soon.
   
  I'm still up in the air about cups.  I am doing pads and the basic (internal) modifications for sure... I may, or may not go for new cups.  
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. I'm asking if he could get the LA7000 out to you (existing pair) for auditioning? Any time frame on the pads? What cups did you/will you choose? I want the dark African cups... lacquered!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Ah, I didn't ask about an audition... maybe something to consider.
> 
> No time frame on the pads.  But expecting it to be soon.
> 
> I'm still up in the air about cups.  I am doing pads and the basic (internal) modifications for sure... I may, or may not go for new cups.


 






 I was actually thinking the opposite! Getting cups, pads and skipping the mod until I could confirm no one would be messing up my Bass! A very important quality in some musical presentations and my genre preferences. I'm also concerned about mids being to forward for my taste even if the Bass/Sub Bass regions become acceptable.
   
  Pre-ringing is the least of my concerns with what I hear. Measurement wise numbers could be all over the street. But what does it (any component) sound like when introduced into my system? 
   
  Having heard from Dubstep Girl on the LA7000, I may attempt to just do it! And sell 'em if they're not my tea, and we all know how selective I am about that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Better still, since it'd be easier for me to come over to your place to listen, I'll contact Mark and a few other members for a possible audition. This way, the loaned cans will be out for a shorter period of time if we team our listening sessions.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





panamared said:


> The WA22 / HD800 combo is currently pumping out:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and all is good


 
  I did some work once with Mulligan and Max Roach around 1981 on a Jazz documentary.   Mulligan and Roach got into an argument about who should or shouldn't be in the rhythm section of a band and a fight broke out.  There was a knife involved.


----------



## shipsupt

Those guys were serious about their jazz!

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I did some work once with Mulligan and Max Roach around 1981 on a Jazz documentary.   Mulligan and Roach got into an argument about who should or shouldn't be in the rhythm section of a band and a fight broke out.  There was a knife involved.


----------



## Silent One

This kind of passion seems missing to a degree today. Yes, there's arguments but about everything else BUT the music!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Those guys were serious about their jazz!


 


  Yeah they weren't just serious about their Jazz they WERE Jazz.


----------



## hodgjy

Well, I played some more with my sick Woo tonight.  I tried several new tricks, including grounding out the pre-amp out jacks.  And, she still has her little static cough.  I can only hear it when I really concentrate when no music is playing.  I guess you could say it's of no consequence, but I know it's there, so it does bother me.
   
  Although, there were some good findings tonight.
   
  1) I like my Trafomatic more tonight.  Its bass is much lower, tighter, and refined compared to the Woo.  It is such a brilliant amp.
   
  2) Feeding the Woo as a pre-amp into the Asgard was surprisingly nice.  There was still the same noise problem, but the sound was quite euphonic.  The static was a little more subdued through the pre-amp, but still there.
   
  I guess I have some decisions to make.  Keep and use it as is.  Use it as a pre-amp only.  Get rid of it.  Getting rid of it will be at a loss because I have invested pretty heavily in power tubes, and I have *NO* desire to sell all those off one by one. 
   
  Perhaps my 5998s can find their way to a nice Woo home, but that's really about it. 
   
  Edit: added word "no" above.  It's amazing how the omission of one word makes such a difference.


----------



## Silent One

_*"Get rid of it." *_ Sounds so harsh... but I understand. Still, she could prove quite serviceable and may find yet another application in the future listening room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About those 5998's though... can you shine some light on them? Thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

Ya, get rid of it does seem harsh.  Maybe I should say, "Find a new foster home where she will be loved."  I may keep her.  I'm in no hurry to make a decision one way or the other.
   
  The 5998s--I have two, and they are not a match pair.  I bought one NOS after Skylab told me of his secret source.  I don't have a log book, so I'm completely guessing, but I bet it has about 250 hours on it.  I bought a NOS spare, and it was only used once for 30 minutes just to make sure it worked, not mircophonic, or anything like that. 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _*"Get rid of it." *_ Sounds so harsh... but I understand. Still, she could prove quite serviceable and may find yet another application in the future listening room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

I did make an edit to my post above a few posts up (about my sick Woo).  The word "no" really can make a difference!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I did make an edit to my post above a few posts up (about my sick Woo).  The word "no" really can make a difference!


 






 Ok, you got me!


----------



## hodgjy

But, to be clear, while I have no desire to sell off all the RCA, Sylvania, and GE power tubes I have accumulated, I would be willing to help out some Woo family members with my 5998s.  Since they're not matched, only WA3 users will be attracted to them.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, I played some more with my sick Woo tonight.  I tried several new tricks, including grounding out the pre-amp out jacks.  And, she still has her little static cough.  I can only hear it when I really concentrate when no music is playing.  I guess you could say it's of no consequence, but I know it's there, so it does bother me.


 

 Has it always sounded like that? If not, did anything change in its setup? Have you tried a different circuit?
   
  What about UPS'ing it up the coast for a checkup? Then you could sell it with a clean bill of health.
   
  It sounds like it may be worth keeping as a preamp though if you could quiet that sucker down.


----------



## sunmonkey

I made the leap and am soon to be a proud owner of a gently used (and much loved) WA6-SE in black. The previous owner is the venerable SilentOne. Kinda neat how things work out.
   
  Up till now I've felt like the homeless guy with the greasy plaid hat and paper cup of coffee that sits behind you and stares at the back of your head hoping for a handout while you are plinking away on the slot machine. But no more! I am a verified Woo owner, and I stand _united_ with you in our sonic endeavors, and as a true, card-carrying member of this forum.
   
  If you thought all my questions about color and balanced topologies and sonic vs. inherent characteristics were annoying, just wait till I get the tube rolling bit between my teeth. Aye carumba.


----------



## hodgjy

It's always been a fickle amp.  Not noisy from the start, but it did like to reject certain tubes when I first got it.  I mean some tubes would just make so much noise I had to not use them.  I did find a few tubes there were nice and silent.  I bought backups of those tubes, and those were silent as well.  I think the circuit just worked better with some tubes and poorly with others.  These tubes gave me no problems until recently.  Now, even my "good" tubes began to make noise.
   
  I'm not sure what it is.  I would say it was most likely born with a problem that got masked by the right tubes.  Now, the problem cannot be masked anymore.  I started tube rolling about a month ago out of boredom, and that's when I noticed the static.  It could have started before rolling, or it could have been caused by the rolling.  I have no way of determining it, however.
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Has it always sounded like that? If not, did anything change in its setup? Have you tried a different circuit?
> 
> What about UPS'ing it up the coast for a checkup? Then you could sell it with a clean bill of health.
> 
> It sounds like it may be worth keeping as a preamp though if you could quiet that sucker down.


----------



## hodgjy

Congrats, and welcome to the family!!!
  
  Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> I made the leap and am soon to be a proud owner of a gently used (and much loved) WA6-SE in black. The previous owner is the venerable SilentOne. Kinda neat how things work out.
> 
> Up till now I've felt like the homeless guy with the greasy plaid hat and paper cup of coffee that sits behind you and stares at the back of your head hoping for a handout while you are plinking away on the slot machine. But no more! I am a verified Woo owner, and I stand _united_ with you in our sonic endeavors, and as a true, card-carrying member of this forum.
> 
> If you thought all my questions about color and balanced topologies and sonic vs. inherent characteristics were annoying, just wait till I get the tube rolling bit between my teeth. Aye carumba.


----------



## Silent One

*Woo Audio WA 6 Special Edition in Black goes to:*
   






 It is my honor to pass the torch to sunmonkey. I wanted someone who would love and cherish my Woo and that person sought me out. Cheers to your new ownership!


----------



## john57

If you are still getting light static and you have rule out tubes, sources and interfernce I would resolder all the connections. I used to built many SS amps and receivers when I was 14 years old. From what I have seen of photos of insides of Woo amps I think it is very easy to work on.
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Ya, get rid of it does seem harsh.  Maybe I should say, "Find a new foster home where she will be loved."  I may keep her.  I'm in no hurry to make a decision one way or the other.
> 
> The 5998s--I have two, and they are not a match pair.  I bought one NOS after Skylab told me of his secret source.  I don't have a log book, so I'm completely guessing, but I bet it has about 250 hours on it.  I bought a NOS spare, and it was only used once for 30 minutes just to make sure it worked, not mircophonic, or anything like that.


----------



## Silent One

Question: If 'Silent One' is Woo-less inside the 'Unite' thread, does he remain silent?
    Answer: On what day?!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Silent One.
   
  I am really looking forward to getting it. Jack said the lead time was three weeks though, so it will be a little while before I can get it and break it in. I'll definitely do some critical listening and share impressions. In particular, I'll give some insight on how it compares to the decently regarded amp section of my Audio-gd NFB-10WM.
   
  I would really welcome any advice you guys might have on what the ideal tubes might be for WA22 using HD 650 balanced. I listen primarily to jazz, acoustic, classical, and a touch of electronica. I like the HD 650 but try and counter its exaggerations. For example, I use a Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 headphone cable to help minimize the thick bass and tighten it up. It also helps liven up the treble a little. I am really interested in tubes that help to "balance out" the HD 650. I have heard the Sophia Princess rectifier can be a tad bright and is thus a good pairing with the HD 650s. I see that Jack recommends the RCA VT231 driver tubes, but haven't heard much about them. They seem a tad pricey. Not sure if there are better value options that still sound pretty dang good.
   
  I'll appreciate any help!
   
  Dave


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One.
> 
> I am really looking forward to getting it. Jack said the lead time was three weeks though, so it will be a little while before I can get it and break it in. I'll definitely do some critical listening and share impressions. In particular, I'll give some insight on how it compares to the decently regarded amp section of my Audio-gd NFB-10WM.
> 
> ...


 


  You're certainly in the right place. WA22 owners here love to roll! And will be excited with your exchanges.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'm sure I'll fit right in...
   
  Silent One, I noticed your sold your amp. What's next for you?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have no way of determining it, however.


 
  If it was me I would send it up the coast, Jack will sort it out and then you could sell it as "recently re-certified" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Or perhaps you Woold fall in love with it all over again at that point!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I'm sure I'll fit right in...
> 
> Silent One, I noticed your sold your amp. What's next for you?


 


  Just days ago, I received my new 6AS7 OTL amp, custom built by member 2359glenn. The pix is a few pages back. May tweak my D7000, maybe another set of cans or even trade up my new amp with the builder. Audio is so very exciting!




   
  I'd like to add, the _6 Special Edition_ _ _was my very first vacuum tube amp. It brought me joy like no other, even when I wasn't in-session. There would be times where I'd enter the room and look with admiration - a very aesthetically pleasing object to look at.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If it was me I would send it up the coast, Jack will sort it out and then you could sell it as "recently re-certified"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The latter. The time spent away from it, coupled with the amp getting reconditioned and voila! A rekindling in the making...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just days ago, I received my new 6AS7 OTL amp, custom built by member 2359glenn. The pix is a few pages back. May tweak my D7000, maybe another set of cans or even trade up my new amp with the builder. Audio is so very exciting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You're still keeping the SE right!?


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> You're still keeping the SE right!?


 


  SilentOne's WA6-SE is now mine. Please don't say anything that could possibly cause him to reconsider the sale. In fact, ten bucks if you would delete your last post.
   
  EDIT: Yikes, that got way real way fast. It was meant to be funny, but it sure reads as "don'tyoudarecomenearmyWoo."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> SilentOne's WA6-SE is now mine. Please don't say anything that could possibly cause him to reconsider the sale. In fact, ten bucks if you would delete your last post.


 








  I was just going to bed... one last glance at Head-Fi and...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> You're still keeping the SE right!?


 


  As of Wednesday morning, _my baby is down-the-street! _Of course, there's packing and shipping left to do. I'm going to miss it dearly! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But not any of my Woo mates, I'll be right here... lurking, looking, listening and learning.


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of Woo Audio amps and the tubes that compliment them, I fell a bit behind in my duties, sunmonkey. Will provide you with that "Hit list" later today (my Thursday...).


----------



## Ahzari

bummer I would have loved to get that USAF from you... oh well


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> bummer I would have loved to get that USAF from you... oh well


 


_Ahzari_,_ I got your back... and the Mighty 596! If you'd like, I'll send it out for an audition. A PM to come later today! _


----------



## hodgjy

I may end up doing that.  Although, my fear is the well-documented standard Jack Wu answer of, "If you can't hear it when the music is playing, it is of no consequence."  I've read several posts around Head-fi, as well as other chat boards, where a Woo amp picked up a background noise and it was deemed to be "within specs."  And, the bottom line is they may actually be within specs.  OTLs using certain tubes certainly have the ability to be noisy.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> If it was me I would send it up the coast, Jack will sort it out and then you could sell it as "recently re-certified"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The latter. The time spent away from it, coupled with the amp getting reconditioned and voila! A rekindling in the making...


----------



## cacatalysis

I spent quite a few days to listen to HD650 (recabled with Balanced cardas cable) on a WA22 recently.  I left my impression a few days ago here.  My best combination is TS7236/TS or NU 6F8G/Mullard GZ 34 (normal base).  Seemaster wrote a long, long review (multiple parts) for rolling different tubes on WA22 using his HD650.  If you search for WA22 tube rolling, you should find it.  The problem I have with HD650 is the bloated base and the lack of sparkle at the top.  The tube set I listed above address both problems.  I now enjoy HD650 as much as my HD800 HE6 (I listened mostly classical music) and 007 MK 1 on a electrostatic set up.  IMO the mullard GZ 34 does a great job in tightening up the base and consequently brings "shape" to the presentation for HD650.   With the bloating problem addressed, I can hear now that HD650 is a highly resolving phone because it is actually a fast phone.  If you have a top notch amp like WA22, HD650 is one of the best buys anywhere.   
  Quote:


sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One.
> 
> I am really looking forward to getting it. Jack said the lead time was three weeks though, so it will be a little while before I can get it and break it in. I'll definitely do some critical listening and share impressions. In particular, I'll give some insight on how it compares to the decently regarded amp section of my Audio-gd NFB-10WM.
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow, Silent One, I'd've never thought that you'd ever sell your WA6SE / 596. Congratulations on welcoming your new OTL amp built by Glenn into your not-so-silent world.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow, Silent One, I'd've never thought that you'd ever sell your WA6SE / 596. Congratulations on welcoming your new OTL amp built by Glenn into your not-so-silent world.


 


  +1


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How would you describe the difference in sound between the plastic and metal base GZ34?  It has to do with more than the base, right?


 


   
  Not exactly more bass, it is about the same.  I would say it is more controlled bass and smoother mids.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Woo Audio WA 6 Special Edition in Black goes to:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Maybe a WA22 or WA5 in the near future?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You're certainly in the right place. WA22 owners here love to roll! And will be excited with your exchanges.


 


   
  Yup, I roll like crazy when I first got the WA22 and finally settled on two set now.
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow, Silent One, I'd've never thought that you'd ever sell your WA6SE / 596. Congratulations on welcoming your new OTL amp built by Glenn into your not-so-silent world.


 


  X2. 
   
  Off topic, Clayton, you around in mid May.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just days ago, I received my new 6AS7 OTL amp, custom built by member 2359glenn. The pix is a few pages back. May tweak my D7000, maybe another set of cans or even trade up my new amp with the builder. Audio is so very exciting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Oh come on!! I know there is a WA5 in your future
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can even power those HE-6 that you are going to try...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Off topic, Clayton, you around in mid May.


 

 Another business trip to SF, eh? We should have nice weather by then. Right now it is raining. I got rid of my Leben CS300XS and bought a CS600. It should be in my possession by mid-May! Unless, of course, my apartment floor collapses under the weight of all of dem amps 'o mine.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Another business trip to SF, eh? We should have nice weather by then. Right now it is raining. I got rid of my Leben CS300XS and bought a CS600. It should be in my possession by mid-May! Unless, of course, my apartment floor collapses under the weight of all of dem amps 'o mine.


 


  Yes, CS600 woohoo, party at your place.  of course after few bottles of saki...


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One.
> 
> I am really looking forward to getting it. Jack said the lead time was three weeks though, so it will be a little while before I can get it and break it in. I'll definitely do some critical listening and share impressions. In particular, I'll give some insight on how it compares to the decently regarded amp section of my Audio-gd NFB-10WM.
> 
> ...


 


  Hey Dave,
  I haven't heard the HD 650s in several years but I can safely suggest that you NOT spend the money on the RCA VT231s. Those are not what you want as far as shaping or balancing for your HD 650s.
  My LCD-3 may have a somewhat similar signature to the HD 650 - probably less veil?  I have found that both the brown-base 5692 (CBS, Sylvania) and brown-base 6SN7WGT (Sylvania, Raytheon) have some nice, pumped-up mids that work really well in my setup. 
   
  Another thought (I'm pretty new to this) is that you will need to pay special attention to bass control. To this end, I'd recommend getting / trying a GZ34 or GZ33 rectifier. Once you have a strong(er) rectifier, a pair of 7236 power tubes will really start to do their thing and give you nice slam. Finally, if you can find some good 5998 (hard) your soundstage will become otherworldly (at the possible expense of the lowest registers of bass).
   
  I dunno. This is the first advice that I'm attempting to give. I hope it helps. Before I got my WA22, I asked a forum member to give me a limited list of tubes that I should try - like a Tube "Flight". I wanted to limit my exposure to only the most useful tubes. Looking back, he was right to ignore me and let me build my own experiences. 
   
  So, this can get expensive, but it is a total blast. Have fun!
  If my advice works out for you and your system, you're welcome to ask about other popular driver tubes, I have a dozen pairs now and I'm happy to give my impressions of them - using my limited vocabulary and experience.
   
  Chris


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow, Silent One, I'd've never thought that you'd ever sell your WA6SE / 596. Congratulations on welcoming your new OTL amp built by Glenn into your not-so-silent world.


 


  Me neither! I had always planned on keeping it, while upgrading to another amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then I remembered I was "Yobless." So, instant financing... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But make no mistake, my 1957 USAF-596 is not for sale.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 


  Thank you, Dubstep Girl. Though, my journey will not be complete until I get my hands on one of the many cans you have... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at a fair price, to be sure!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Oh come on!! I know there is a *WA5* in your future
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 







 You see me quietly working in the background...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Another business trip to SF, eh? We should have nice weather by then. Right now it is raining. I got rid of my Leben CS300XS and bought a CS600. It should be in my possession by mid-May! Unless, of course, my apartment floor collapses under the weight of all of dem amps 'o mine.


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, CS600 woohoo, party at your place.  of course after few bottles of saki...


 

  
   I'm going to have to tip down the street and crash... er... join this little get together. Already have my B.A.R.T. ticket punched! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could easily drive over, but I'm a responsible cat.


----------



## Silent One

*WA2 Owners make your case: AKG 701/702 vs HD650!*


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You see me quietly working in the background...


 


 BTW, you are going to need another 596 in your future


----------



## CloakedMistborn

I'M LISTENING TO MY FIRST SONG ON MY NEW WOO, WOOOOOO!
   
  Quite a difference going from an A700 with fiio e11 to WA6 and DT880 600
   
  Songs that I'm playing since I have been thinking about it all day.
   
  1. Dire Straits- Money for Nothing
  2. Beatles - While My Guitar Gently Weeps
  3. Michael Jackson- Billy Jean
  4. Jacqueline Du Pre- Elgar Cello Concerto in E Minor Op 85
  5. Metallica- Wherever I May Roam
   
   
  I bought some good bourbon and I'll be laying back all evening listening to music. What else do y'all think I should listen to?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> BTW, you are going to need another 596 in your future


 


  Now that's a dilemma I'll delight in! But I was goin' to buy another one for back up anyway... especially since they are rare.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> I'M LISTENING TO MY FIRST SONG ON MY NEW WOO, WOOOOOO!
> 
> Quite a difference going from an A700 with fiio e11 to WA6 and DT880 600
> 
> ...


 





 If I may ask, is the number one song listed above the actual song you listened to first? Let's see, new amp, Bourbon, on a Thursday night... how 'bout some vintage Earth, Wind & Fire?!


----------



## CloakedMistborn

Yeah Money for Nothing  was the first song I listened to. It is sort of my go to reference song. I am going to listen to some Boston and Adele then some oldschool Earth, Wind & Fire sounds like a great suggestion.


----------



## CloakedMistborn

I don't know if this is a crazy question or not but does anyone listen/watch movies through their headphones and amps? I can hook up video from my laptop to plasma tv through hdmi and then listen to the audio through my dac and amp. I also have an astro mixamp I have been using. I wonder what is better.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now that's a dilemma I'll delight in! But I was goin' to buy another one for back up anyway... especially since they are rare.


 


  I like them so much that I was able to secure 3 pairs for my WA5-LE. SInce I go then my EML 5U4G Mesh have not seen any time in.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> I don't know if this is a crazy question or not but does anyone listen/watch movies through their headphones and amps? I can hook up video from my laptop to plasma tv through hdmi and then listen to the audio through my dac and amp. I also have an astro mixamp I have been using. I wonder what is better.


 


  I did this with my WA6 once.  I actually didn't care for it all that much surprisingly enough, but part of it was probably the headphones being used at the time (some cheap panasonics).


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Nice variety of selections......  Don't forget the rest of the Brothers in Arms CD.....awesome with cans and a good amp!

 I have to try Billie Jean...had not thought of that one....not a huge MJ fan, but that is a seriously rockin' song....
  Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> I'M LISTENING TO MY FIRST SONG ON MY NEW WOO, WOOOOOO!
> 
> Quite a difference going from an A700 with fiio e11 to WA6 and DT880 600
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

I love that album!  It is fantastic.  Start to end, pure brilliance.  Don't neglect other Dire Straits, like their self-titled album.  Water of Love and Wild West End are pure magic.
  
  Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> Nice variety of selections......  Don't forget the rest of the Brothers in Arms CD.....awesome with cans and a good amp!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm going to have to tip down the street and crash... er... join this little get together. Already have my B.A.R.T. ticket punched!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Smart man, last time I can barely walk back to IC.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Well, not that bad but I did missed the vendor dinner.


----------



## Rawrbington

im in trouble.
  i started crunching numbers.
  and over analyzing things.
  gotta trim the fat i feel like.
  and the WA2 along with 3 pairs of 5998s are the fattest of the fat taht i got.
   
  =(
   
  talk me out of it!
   
  i mean my 90$ refurb 770 pros out of my pioneer 950 sounds plenty good unless im side by siding with my wa2 and hd 650s.
   
  and that way i would sell off the 950, the yamaha a s500 and my 990s.
  then just pick up 1 pioneer sx 1250, 1 marantz 2245 and a pair of wharfedale diamond 10.2's
  the woo + pioneer would cover almost all of that.
   
  i feel sick


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im in trouble.
> i started crunching numbers.
> and over analyzing things.
> gotta trim the fat i feel like.
> ...


 



 Did anyone tells you never add up all the head-fi related expense?  I learned it the hard way...


----------



## hodgjy

Are you just feeling guilty, or do you actually need money for food and housing and stuff?
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im in trouble.
> i started crunching numbers.
> and over analyzing things.
> gotta trim the fat i feel like.
> ...


----------



## jerico

$13 max, I swear it!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Are you just feeling guilty, or do you actually need money for food and housing and stuff?


 


  lol
  i don't need the money.
  in fact i even have a nice tax return coming.
  but as a hs teacher i really shouldn't be spending multiple G's on...  HEADPHONES?


----------



## hodgjy

Well, you can't take your $$$$ with you to the grave, so buy the toys you want and love the hell out of them.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> lol
> i don't need the money.
> in fact i even have a nice tax return coming.
> but as a hs teacher i really shouldn't be spending multiple G's on...  HEADPHONES?


----------



## CloakedMistborn

Dude Thriller, Beat It, and Billie Jean. Its hard to beat those three tracks back to back to back.


----------



## CloakedMistborn

lol
 i don't need the money.
 in fact i even have a nice tax return coming.
 but as a hs teacher i really shouldn't be spending multiple G's on...  HEADPHONES?
  
  
 Don't know how to quote bud yeah I'm a teacher too, I spent all of my tax refund on headphones and this amp.


----------



## Rawrbington

well at least im not alone!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  do you sometimes cringe when you hear the students talking about how awesome skullcandy or beats are?
   

  
  Quote: 





jerico said:


> $13 max, I swear it!


 

 thats about right =)


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> I'M LISTENING TO MY FIRST SONG ON MY NEW WOO, WOOOOOO!
> 
> Quite a difference going from an A700 with fiio e11 to WA6 and DT880 600
> 
> ...


 

 An excellent variety of music to christen your new amp.  I'd have to agree with the Dire Straits as #1, and with the other comments about the rest of the Brothers In Arms album, as well as all of their other 5.  Mark Knopfler's 6 solo albums are real treats, too.  
   
  Since you mentioned Jacqueline Du Pre, you might like her recording of the Frederick Delius cello concerto, as well.  I have a vinyl rip from an old Nonesuch LP, but it is available as part of other collections as well.
   
  And, since I am also a fan of moving between wildly different genres in the same evening, I started out with Steve Earle's 'Copperhead Road' album, and am now continuing with Percy Grainger's 'Lincolnshire Posy' (the Dallas Wind Symphony recording downloaded from HDTracks).   Both sound great on my WA2; I used D7000s for Earle, and now have the Grainger playing through the HD800s.
   
  (And a dram of Ardbeg 17 yr. old rather than the bourbon.)


----------



## CloakedMistborn

I teach in the inner city ghetto, if they have genuine Dre's they were part of drug deals lol. They mostly have super crappy IEMS or decorative portable headphones from sony, jvc or skullcandy. I have one kid that is super intelligent and listens to classic rock, jazz, and classical. Don't ask me how, he lives in foster home and his dad is in jail and his mom is on crack (not being funny, seriously) I let him listen to my A700s and fiio e11. I'm thinking about giving them to him and my ipod at the end of the year since he has straight A's.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Ahzari_,_ I got your back... and the Mighty 596! If you'd like, I'll send it out for an audition. A PM to come later today! _


 


  Oh that would be awesome! Looking forward to your PM


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Smart man, last time I can barely walk back to IC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Me? Don't have a problem with an inability to function. Rather, protecting myself legally. Even rounding the numbers some, the U.S. is probably home to 70% of the World's lawyers. And two states combined within the U.S. have 70% of the country's lawyers. We'll be in one of those states!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Oh that would be awesome! Looking forward to your PM


 


  I had to leave the house for a few hours unexpectedly this afternoon. Will hit you shortly... see if we can't make that _6 Special Edition_ sing!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Did anyone tells you never add up all the head-fi related expense?  I learned it the hard way...


 






 I knew there was still a lot for me to learn here at the 'Unite' thread!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im in trouble.
> i started crunching numbers.
> and over analyzing things.
> gotta trim the fat i feel like.
> ...


 

 I too, am at the crossroads. The HD650's caught my eye, though... we gotta talk!


----------



## hodgjy

I love my HD600s.  Everything I've read is the 650s are of the same house flavor as the 600s.  I suspect you'll love the 650s as much as I love the 600s.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I too, am at the crossroads. The HD650's caught my eye, though... we gotta talk!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I love my HD600s.  Everything I've read is the 650s are of the same house flavor as the 600s.  I suspect you'll love the 650s as much as I love the 600s.


 

 Yeah, but price and availability will show how much I'll love 'em!


----------



## hodgjy

So true.  That's the only thing keeping me back from the LCD-2.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah, but price and availability will show how much I'll love 'em!


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





cloakedmistborn said:


> I don't know if this is a crazy question or not but does anyone listen/watch movies through their headphones and amps? I can hook up video from my laptop to plasma tv through hdmi and then listen to the audio through my dac and amp. I also have an astro mixamp I have been using. I wonder what is better.


 

 Yes I do view movies using my headphones as opposed to using my 7.1 Onkyo speaker system, my headphone rig blows away my 7.1 speaker system for audio. Matter of fact most of my use of my headphone rig is for Blu Ray movies, MCH music or music videos.


----------



## Silent One

Your Home Theater headphone rig is nicely done, sillysally!


----------



## Ahzari

Does anyone have experience with the USAF RCA 5U4Gs? 
   
  Never seen anything like it (bling bling..haha)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ wow very nice. tube bling.


----------



## Silent One

Good thing I'm sleepy or I'd have gone blind!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Does anyone have experience with the USAF RCA 5U4Gs?
> 
> Never seen anything like it (bling bling..haha)


 


  2359glenn could make you an adapter and have your Woo glowing like NASA!


----------



## shipsupt

Why would you need an adapter for a 5U4G tube in a 6SE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Why would you need an adapter for a 5U4G tube in a 6SE?


 

 I forgot to use one of these " 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. "


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for the detailed reply. It sounds like we both view our HD 650s the same way and are after the same thing with them. I looked up the seamaster thread and read all twenty something pages. It was all interesting, but I can safely say now I just have a huge headache!
   
  I'll be reading into the tube options over time and your recommendations give me a good place to start. Thanks again.
  
  Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> I spent quite a few days to listen to HD650 (recabled with Balanced cardas cable) on a WA22 recently.  I left my impression a few days ago here.  My best combination is TS7236/TS or NU 6F8G/Mullard GZ 34 (normal base).  Seemaster wrote a long, long review (multiple parts) for rolling different tubes on WA22 using his HD650.  If you search for WA22 tube rolling, you should find it.  The problem I have with HD650 is the bloated base and the lack of sparkle at the top.  The tube set I listed above address both problems.  I now enjoy HD650 as much as my HD800 HE6 (I listened mostly classical music) and 007 MK 1 on a electrostatic set up.  IMO the mullard GZ 34 does a great job in tightening up the base and consequently brings "shape" to the presentation for HD650.   With the bloating problem addressed, I can hear now that HD650 is a highly resolving phone because it is actually a fast phone.  If you have a top notch amp like WA22, HD650 is one of the best buys anywhere.
> Quote:


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hi Chris,
   
  Thanks to you as well for your considerate and detailed reply. I especially appreciated your thoughts on the VT231 considering how I am trying to shape my HD 650s. Thanks also for the offer to send you additional questions.
   
  Dave
  
  Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Hey Dave,
> I haven't heard the HD 650s in several years but I can safely suggest that you NOT spend the money on the RCA VT231s. Those are not what you want as far as shaping or balancing for your HD 650s.
> My LCD-3 may have a somewhat similar signature to the HD 650 - probably less veil?  I have found that both the brown-base 5692 (CBS, Sylvania) and brown-base 6SN7WGT (Sylvania, Raytheon) have some nice, pumped-up mids that work really well in my setup.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Reason: Because it's Fact Fun Friday!


----------



## shipsupt

Gotcha! 



silent one said:


> I forgot to use one of these "
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## obzilla

Finally... after a long wait in customs my GES has arrived.
   

  (I have no idea why the grill on the Stax came out green, just my phone I suppose, they are gold)
   
  Aside from the headphone stand, it's my first Woo product.
  It has the upgraded caps, as well as the Mullards (Thanks Seacard). As the Stax Mafia will tell you, it is not the amp of choice for the mkIIs, but I only have the GES and the SRM007tii to go on. It's every bit the sonic bliss that my LCD2s have been with various (non-Woo) amps.
   
  I purchased it with this in mind, knowing that the GES will most likely be a stopgap before I can put together the money for a WES or a Liquid Lightning, but I gotta say (and this will probably sound like heresy to the Stax veterans), this sounds GREAT. Just a beautiful pairing.
  I don't know what I will do save for one thing, play the guts out of this amp while the pricier amps are not possible, giving it its due diligence. So far I am quite happy.
   
  This is definitely a reasonable way to get your foot in the door with 'stats, without having to deal with the more plasticy, lower end Stax models.
   
  It's also one of the better looking 'stat amps out there IMO. I think the WES and BHSE are prettier, but after them the GES is a solid 3rd in the ascetics department. Not that that really matters.
   
  I'll be spending the weekend getting intimate with this new pairing (they are fed by a W4S DAC2), but I just wanted to post my new toy, show a pic, and stake my claim to the Woo club


----------



## Silent One

Absolutely... welcome obzilla! You're off to a great start, with a wonderful weekend in store.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Looks great! I have to say though, that looking at all of those tubes makes me feel better about having to upgrade the 5 that come with my WA22 ;P
  
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Finally... after a long wait in customs my GES has arrived.
> 
> 
> (I have no idea why the grill on the Stax came out green, just my phone I suppose, they are gold)
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

I remember my first weekend with my Woo.  It was just like the honeymoon stage with a new girlfriend.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely... welcome obzilla! You're off to a great start, with a wonderful weekend in store.


----------



## cacatalysis

Sid-Fi, you are more than welcomed.  I used both AKG 501 and HD600 for long time.  Once I found this set of tubes on my WA22 for my newly purchased HD650 (bought last December), I sold both last month (see my feedbacks).  I found that HD650 is not only good for classical, but also for some rock music as well.  The HD650 also pairs well with a good balanced solid amp such as audio-gd phoenix, but I like WA22 more.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I remember my first weekend with my Woo.  It was just like the honeymoon stage with a new girlfriend.


 
   
   
  Ah... my Woo dropped just after lunch on a summer Friday afternoon. I cancelled all activities through Tuesday!


----------



## hodgjy

Mine came on a Friday as well.  That was a fun weekend rediscovering all of my cds.  It was like I heard them for the first time.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ah... my Woo dropped just after lunch on a summer Friday afternoon. I cancelled all activities through Tuesday!


----------



## cacatalysis

Congratulatios obzilla!  I would love to hear your impression of GES vs 007tII.  I was using 007tII for my MK1.  For a while I thought this was a huge mistake, because obviously 007tII by itself did not have the power to drive MK1 properly.  Fortunately, I found others(especially in Europe and Asia) have used a pre-amp with 007tII to get better results.  I tried that when I got a audio-gd phoenix, an pre/head amp.  I was pleasantly surprised by the results.  I have always been curious about GES.  A really beautiful amp.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Mine came on a Friday as well.  That was a fun weekend rediscovering all of my cds.  It was like I heard them for the first time.


 
   
  That is _exactly _what I am up to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  My latin stuff is just on fire right now (Gotan Project, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, Chambao, Pacifika, et al)
   
  I'm going to save the sick day for a week or so when my LF drops so I can give my undivided attention to the differences between orthos and stats while the girlfriend is at work.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Looks great! I have to say though, that looking at all of those tubes makes me feel better about having to upgrade the 5 that come with my WA22 ;P


 


  Yeah, about that... it came with upgraded Mullards, I think I will play them until they die, then I might look into fancier options, or just replace them all together.
  As romantic as it sounds, tube rolling isn't my thing. I want to find some good sounding reliable ones, and stick with them (and I think I pretty much have them).
   
  Well, I say that now... ask me in a week, I'll probably have a bead on all my local tube vendors. This crap never ends...


----------



## hodgjy

Someday I might get into electrostats.  However, my curiosity with orthos might get the best of me.


----------



## hodgjy

Tube rolling is so addictive.  I actually think I have a problem.  I've only had my Trafomatic for one week and I've already dropped $75 ordering rectifiers for it.
  
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Yeah, about that... it came with upgraded Mullards, I think I will play them until they die, then I might look into fancier options, or just replace them all together.
> As romantic as it sounds, tube rolling isn't my thing. I want to find some good sounding reliable ones, and stick with them (and I think I pretty much have them).
> 
> Well, I say that now... ask me in a week, I'll probably have a bead on all my local tube vendors. This crap never ends...


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Someday I might get into electrostats.  However, my curiosity with orthos might get the best of me.


 

 My curiosity with orthos got me here... careful what you wish for.


----------



## hodgjy

So true! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> My curiosity with orthos got me here... careful what you wish for.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Congratulatios obzilla!  I would love to hear your impression of GES vs 007tII.  I was using 007tII for my MK1.  For a while I thought this was a huge mistake, because obviously 007tII by itself did not have the power to drive MK1 properly.  Fortunately, I found others(especially in Europe and Asia) have used a pre-amp with 007tII to get better results.  I tried that when I got a audio-gd phoenix, an pre/head amp.  I was pleasantly surprised by the results.  I have always been curious about GES.  A really beautiful amp.


 


  Well, it would have to be from memory, which is spotty. But I remember not being impressed at all by the 007tii hooked to the mkIIs. And I am impressed with what the GES is doing. I feel like there is certainly a better bass presence and detail definition in the GES. 
   
  The detail and air and separation coming out of the mkii is, for me, a new level. I'm missing a bit of bass impact (not extension, I am hearing new stuff in the bass that I hadn't been able to previously) as compared to my LCD2s, but other than that, the Staxs are worlds better on all counts.
   
  Sorry I can't be much more help on the 007tii comparison, it has been a while. All I can say is that if the GES is indeed inadequate, these phones have a lot in store for me, once I reach the point of adequacy. Most of the Stax guys say the GES is not enough for the O2s, and Jack Wu will tell you the same thing. And if that is the case, and I am as presently pleased with 'sub par', I really look forward to something capable of driving them. Others, guided me a bit via PMs during my search and assured me that the high end Stax amps are indeed better, but that the GES was more than capable. So far, I agree.
   
  I'll get a LL or WES this summer, and if I find it all to be hype, or I am incapable of discerning a difference at that level, I will return it and keep the GES. If I find the extra money worth it, I will keep the GES in the bedroom and get a pair of 4070s to go with it .


----------



## Sid-Fi

Haha, yeah. I am in a similar boat and just looking to grab some decent affordable used ones to start out with. I'll pickup premium ones here or there over time with no rush. However, I really don't want to be super excited to get the amp in 3 weeks after wanting to get a nice high end amp for a couple of years only to have cheap stock tubes totally holding it back. That's one really nice part about tubes amps. You can spread out the investment in higher-end  tubes conveniently and have something to look forward to for awhile.
  
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Yeah, about that... it came with upgraded Mullards, I think I will play them until they die, then I might look into fancier options, or just replace them all together.
> As romantic as it sounds, tube rolling isn't my thing. I want to find some good sounding reliable ones, and stick with them (and I think I pretty much have them).
> 
> Well, I say that now... ask me in a week, I'll probably have a bead on all my local tube vendors. This crap never ends...


----------



## cacatalysis

Thanks Obzilla for the impression.  I saw the GES on sale for such a good price.  I would jump on it if I did not get on the waiting list for a BHSE.  I hope I can find out within the next two or three month whether it is hype or for real.  I also have to fight with my urge to get a LCD.  From others' description, it sounds like the best of the LCDs (3) has a similar signature to Omega II but not as good.  Every time I feel like to pull the trigger for an LCD, I read Asr's comparison of MK 1 and LCD 2 and 3.  Your impression confirms that of Asr.  So far my MK 1 is still on the top among my collections, but I am extremely impressed by the HD650.  If somebody asks me what is the point of diminished return, I will use HD650 (properly driven) as the defining point.  I am very happy with how my MK 1 sounds now, sometime I do ask myself what more do I want after hearing a high quality recording from the MK 1.


----------



## MacedonianHero

That's certainly Asr's perspective. I've heard the SR007 mkI (liked them) and mkII (didn't really like them as much) several times through the years. That said, I'd still take the LCD-3s over them. Stats (speakers or headphones) lack a tonal weight that keeps them from sounding "real" to my ears. They can't do this as well as dynamics or orthos and for me that's a big issue.
   
  I haven't heard the SR009s, so my opinion on stats may change.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tube rolling is so addictive.  I actually think I have a problem.  I've only had my Trafomatic for one week and I've already dropped $75 ordering rectifiers for it.


 


  I think I have the same problem. In the span of January through February, 8 pairs of driver tubes and 5 rectifiers landed on my doorstep. And I haven't listened to some of them yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  @obzilla: That looks absolutely stunning. May she bring you much aural love.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I think I have the same problem. In the span of January through February, *8 pairs of driver tubes and 5 rectifiers landed on my doorstep*. And I haven't listened to some of them yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This summer, I'll try to stage a reenactment!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This summer, I'll try to stage a reenactment!


 
   
  That can't be good for the wallet, but then again, we're in head-fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gonna roll 6AS7 variants with Glenn's amp?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> That can't be good for the wallet, but then again, we're in head-fi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  No, but potentially with another amp. May Summer 2012 hold promise. And not just the Olympics! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  In my current late-nite session I rolled in the _Mighty 596 (USAF-596) _in the 6AS7 OTL amp for the first time... I really like this Rec!


----------



## grokit

Quote:


z06_pilot said:


> Nice variety of selections......  Don't forget the rest of the Brothers in Arms CD.....awesome with cans and a good amp!


 

  I'm really digging their self-titled debut album tonight. Switchblade Knife digs so deep I forget I'm listening to my HD800, where did this deep bass come from?
  I think I have Brothers in Arms on vinyl, gonna have to dig that one out


----------



## cacatalysis

That is certainly true.  I would audition a LCD if there is no uncertain quality issues to be addressed.  I think what Audeze is going through with LCD3 is not unusual for a product at an early stage.  I also have no doubt about their service (and hifiman's service).  It is just that you do not want to go through hassles like sending them back and forth when buying a phone at such a price.  To my ears 007 MK 1 offers the most real and balanced tonality for classical music, which is the most critical for me (I have never heard a LCD).  I enjoy my ortho and dynamics on either WA22 or Leben enormously, but if I am forced to pick one now, 007 MK 1 would be the one (I also have not yet heard a 009).  
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> That's certainly Asr's perspective. I've heard the SR007 mkI (liked them) and mkII (didn't really like them as much) several times through the years. That said, I'd still take the LCD-3s over them. Stats (speakers or headphones) lack a tonal weight that keeps them from sounding "real" to my ears. They can't do this as well as dynamics or orthos and for me that's a big issue.
> 
> I haven't heard the SR009s, so my opinion on stats may change.


----------



## Austin Morrow

I'm still perplexed how anyone can keep up with a thread like this, as it seems to keep adding responses by the second. Anyway, I wanted to ask if there is anybody using a WA6 (with the Sofia rectifier) with a HRT Music Streamer II+? I have a WA6 coming and want to hear about how the sonics are between the too. I know I'll be listening to it a lot when I get the amp, but any preliminary observations from some of the Woo Audio owners here would be helpful. Thanks!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Just wanted to post to show off my new avatar 
   
  Well, I've ordered my first three tubes and my amp won't even be here for three weeks...I guess I am off to a good start and feeling right at home here...hehe. Thanks to Golfnutz for giving me a good deal on some Sylvania 7236 and Mullard GZ37. It sounds like they are a decent place to start based on a lot of earlier posts on this thread.
   
  I am also ordering some silver dragon v3 cable and xlr connectors from Moon Audio to build some interconnects to match my balanced silver dragon cable. I like silver for my HD 650, but might have to swap to copper if I ever get HD 800 in the future.


----------



## Johmem

Hello from a new Woo owner!
   
  I just acquired a WA6 today.  It is an older unit that has belonged to at least a couple of head-fi members in the past.  It has the smaller power tube holes and has been upgraded with the pseudo dual power supply and black gates and v-caps at some point by Woo Audio.
   
  I have a problem of no sound out of the left channel and I am hoping somebody here can help troubleshoot.  I have eliminated the source (I think) by swapping the left and right inputs, the left RCA cable when connected to the right input produces sound.  I have also tried another set of phones.  I have swapped driver tubes around and tried another set.  I have even tried a different rectifier tube.
   
  Any ideas?


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Hello from a new Woo owner!
> 
> I just acquired a WA6 today.  It is an older unit that has belonged to at least a couple of head-fi members in the past.  It has the smaller power tube holes and has been upgraded with the pseudo dual power supply and black gates and v-caps at some point by Woo Audio.
> 
> ...


 



 Unplug, remove tubes, open box and check for wires that are not connected.


----------



## Johmem

Thank you.  I had already done that and found nothing, but at your suggestion I opened it back up for a second look and spotted something.  A small green wire between the jack and the center post of the left driver tube socket broke at the beginning of the insulation near the solder joint to the socket. 
   
  The V-Caps were installed with gobs of hot-glue rather than the zip-ties I have seen in pictures posted in this thread.  The broken wire runs underneath these.  This hot glue has become completely detached from the chassis and apparently movement from shipping put enough pressure/fatigue on the wire to break it.
   
  Any local (western Washington) DIYers out there want to fix it for me?


----------



## sillysally

Who did you get this WA6 from. I would doubt very highly that Woo audio would use "gobs of hot-glue" on a V-cap.
   
  You may want to post some pictures of the inside of your amp.
   
  Here is a picture of my WA5LE with V-caps, the only mod I did was change the Jacks, but I doubt you would even know that I did. .


----------



## Johmem

Like I said, I think this amp has traveled around head-fi members a bit.  The guy I got it from didn't have it for long.  The owner before that claims the amp was sent back to Woo for the Pseudo Dual Power Supply at least.
   
  Sorry for the terrible cell-phone pic.


----------



## Saintly

I am the seller and I bought the amp from Claybum.  I am fairly certain the mods were done by Woo Audio as the owner claimed they added $300 to the price tag.  
   
  If you cannot fix the wire, feel free to return the amp for a refund.  I will not have my conscience tainted by this.


----------



## Johmem

Don't worry Saintly, I'd much rather fix it.
   
  On a lighter note, I'm almost to page 1000 of this thread


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Don't worry Saintly, I'd much rather fix it.
> 
> On a lighter note, *I'm almost to page 1000 of this thread*


 









   
  Now that's an audio enthusiast!


----------



## Silent One

_*Ladies and Gentlemen... it's in the books!*_
   
  For those of you scoring at home, I opened the chapter to my *WA 6 Special Edition* on 9 July, 2010. Tonight, I concluded the final chapter in perhaps, what could be remembered as its finest hour! During this time, I found a couple of moments _surreal... and in stereo_. 
   
  While I rifled through the music library with the Woo, I was warming up the 6AS7 OTL amp for the official hand-off and continued listening session. For this, I had my 48" Black Light illuminated underneath my Vintage Black Light Posters - "War Queen" (1971) & "Attilla's Mate" (1969) from the storied Houston Blacklight Poster Co. 
   
  Let the record reflect the very first track I played on my Woo was "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel Sr, arguably the most employed studio bassist of our time... _go look it up!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And the final track played was "Ask Me No Questions" - B.B.King. But just prior to that, I was looking around the room with lights out listening to... Janos Starker?! Black light Posters and Starker, now that's surreal! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The second surreal moment came when I realized "That's it, the amp is officially down the street!" But since I'm not boxing and shipping it 'til Monday, I'm still staring in disbelief... is it really over?!
   
  Next, I jumped on the _Silver Hawk_ (the Silver faced 6AS7 OTL amp custom built by 2359glenn). In what could be misconstrued as "Taunting," I proceeded to have a ball, as if the Woo never existed. With the Black light burning bright, I played tracks to compliment the Black light era: Sly & The Family Stone "Life"  "Fun"  "Plastic Jim" and from Woodstock "Hey Music Lover/Higher." Then hit it with some Stones "Gimme Shelter"  "Sympathy For The Devil." And wrapped up the morning with Sly & The Family Stone "Sex Machine" @ 13 minutes & 48 seconds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The latter was fun and hard hitting at high volume, in need of speakers!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Like I said, I think this amp has traveled around head-fi members a bit.  The guy I got it from didn't have it for long.  The owner before that claims the amp was sent back to Woo for the Pseudo Dual Power Supply at least.
> 
> Sorry for the terrible cell-phone pic.


 
  This is a easy fix just go to RadioShack and buy a small cheep soldering iron solder and a pair of wire strippers. Get a hold of the
  green wire with needle nose pliers and pull it out of the hot glue. Strip the insulation off the end of the wire wrap it around the wire
  from the resistor and put some solder on it. Just make sure you don't touch the soldering iron against the V-cap it will melt it and
  short it out. If you want to reattach the V-caps use RTV silicone not hot glue hot glue is good for nothing.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





saintly said:


> I am the seller and I bought the amp from Claybum.  I am fairly certain the mods were done by Woo Audio as the owner claimed they added $300 to the price tag.
> 
> If you cannot fix the wire, feel free to return the amp for a refund.  I will not have my conscience tainted by this.


 
   
  Saintly--you are correct about the mods being done by Woo Audio.
   
  I purchased my WA6 from Woo Audio in September 2009 and its caps are also hot glued to the chassis. I noticed the glued caps when I opened the amp to admire the workmanship on the first day it arrived. It has worked perfectly for the past 2-1/2 years. Of course I've never shipped it anywhere.
   
  On the other hand I shipped my Decware CSP2+ to 2359glenn for mods and the base was practically destroyed by USPS. Fortunately Glenn patched it up really nicely by applying some paint touched-ups to the wood base that was dinged and gouged very badly. Of course I could order another base for $50 and it would look like new again but after a few days I didn't even notice the scars. Thanks for making it all better, Glenn.


----------



## Saintly

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This is a easy fix just go to RadioShack and buy a small cheep soldering iron solder and a pair of wire strippers. Get a hold of the
> green wire with needle nose pliers and pull it out of the hot glue. Strip the insulation off the end of the wire wrap it around the wire
> from the resistor and put some solder on it. Just make sure you don't touch the soldering iron against the V-cap it will melt it and
> short it out. If you want to reattach the V-caps use RTV silicone not hot glue hot glue is good for nothing.


 
   
  Thanks for the tip!
  
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Saintly--you are correct about the mods being done by Woo Audio.
> 
> I purchased my WA6 from Woo Audio in September 2009 and its caps are also hot glued to the chassis. I noticed the glued caps when I opened the amp to admire the workmanship on the first day it arrived. It has worked perfectly for the past 2-1/2 years. Of course I've never shipped it anywhere.


 

 Thanks for the confirmation, Clayton.  It's good to know that I wasn't had by the seller and did not unintentionally screwed over Johmem.

  
  Quote: 





johmem said:


> Don't worry Saintly, I'd much rather fix it.


 

 Thanks for the patience.  Again, the refund offer is available.  Alternatively, if you cannot fix the issue yourself and would like to send it to someone to do it for you, I will pay the shipping and other expenses.


----------



## Johmem

Well, I can hardly believe it, but I fixed it myself.  The only soldering I have done is with one of those big Weller "guns" on boat and car wiring - much larger wire.  I went to the hardware store and bought a 25 watt Weller pencil for 17 bucks and some very fine solder.  I soldered it 1/8 inch up the resistor wire from the socket rather than the original location right on the socket.  Is this OK?

  
  I'm listening now with the Sovtek 5U4G tube and the 6DE7 tubes, assuming this is probably closest to stock.  I have a RCA 5U4G and a Sopia Pricess and a Tung Sol 5U4G on the way to try.  I also have some GE fat bottle 6FD7s  and some RCA 6EW7s on the way.
   
  I am listening to Grado RS1i's, any suggestions?  I like strong bass and listen to Rock and Metal mainly.
   
  Thanks for all the encouragement!
  Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This is a easy fix just go to RadioShack and buy a small cheep soldering iron solder and a pair of wire strippers. Get a hold of the
> green wire with needle nose pliers and pull it out of the hot glue. Strip the insulation off the end of the wire wrap it around the wire
> from the resistor and put some solder on it. Just make sure you don't touch the soldering iron against the V-cap it will melt it and
> short it out. If you want to reattach the V-caps use RTV silicone not hot glue hot glue is good for nothing.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice, glad to hear it is resolved. Nice suggestion Glenn.
  
  Quote: 





johmem said:


> Well, I can hardly believe it, but I fixed it myself.  The only soldering I have done is with one of those big Weller "guns" on boat and car wiring - much larger wire.  I went to the hardware store and bought a 25 watt Weller pencil for 17 bucks and some very fine solder.  I soldered it 1/8 inch up the resistor wire from the socket rather than the original location right on the socket.  Is this OK?
> 
> 
> I'm listening now with the Sovtek 5U4G tube and the 6DE7 tubes, assuming this is probably closest to stock.  I have a RCA 5U4G and a Sopia Pricess and a Tung Sol 5U4G on the way to try.  I also have some GE fat bottle 6FD7s  and some RCA 6EW7s on the way.
> ...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Well, I can hardly believe it, but I fixed it myself.  The only soldering I have done is with one of those big Weller "guns" on boat and car wiring - much larger wire.  I went to the hardware store and bought a 25 watt Weller pencil for 17 bucks and some very fine solder.  I soldered it 1/8 inch up the resistor wire from the socket rather than the original location right on the socket.  Is this OK?
> 
> 
> I'm listening now with the Sovtek 5U4G tube and the 6DE7 tubes, assuming this is probably closest to stock.  I have a RCA 5U4G and a Sopia Pricess and a Tung Sol 5U4G on the way to try.  I also have some GE fat bottle 6FD7s  and some RCA 6EW7s on the way.
> ...


 
  Soldering it up 1/8" up is fine the lug is only used as a tie point to solder this wire to the resistor and hold the resistor there.


----------



## grokit

Johmem, I don't know much about metal but if you like bluesy rock the Cowboy Junkies (for the most part) like to incorporate pretty deep bass in their well-mastered music. Whites of Earth Now, Lay it Down, and Trinity Revisited are good starting points.


----------



## shipsupt

Great fix Johmem! It was great to see you and the seller dealing so well with this instead of throwing rocks, and it all turned out well with some help from the Woo-ers.

X2 on Cowboy Junkies, there are some really deep bass tracks in their stuff, not boomy, but notes that reach way down. Great to hear that low extension. I love the sound stage of the Trinity sessions... Blows me away every time I hear it.


----------



## Silent One

X2 on the Johmem fix! And cheers to the wonderful membership on display!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

I am up making coffee and the earth shakes. I guess I'll make tea.
   

   
  EDIT: All my amps are okay.


----------



## hodgjy

Glad to hear you're ok as well!!
   
  Did you make yourself into a human shield to protect the amps?
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am up making coffee and the earth shakes. I guess I'll make tea.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: All my amps are okay.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Glad to hear you're ok as well!!
> 
> Did you make yourself into a human shield to protect the amps?


 

 LOL.
   
  Thanks.
   
  I was supposed to take cover under a strong heavy table but it happened so quickly that all I could think of was "If I hear one tube break then it will not be a good morning!"


----------



## Xcalibur255

Glad it was nothing serious.  I suppose in exchange for all the snow and wind (and occasionally tornadoes) we are shielded from certain other things around these parts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am up making coffee and the earth shakes. I guess I'll make tea.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: All my amps are okay.


 






 I hope the day never comes where I'm helping you inspect your tube collection for cracks. But, know that I would...


----------



## PanamaRed

4.3 guys? C'mon now. A weak quake like that should only scare tourists 
   
  Glad to hear you guys are okay just the same.
   
  Went to the pasadena record swap on sunday and procured the following fine LPs:
   
  Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
  Gene Ammons - Jug
  Mingus - Oh Yeah
  Miles Davis - Miles Smiles
  Miles Davis - Walkin'
  Kenny Burrell - Blue Lights
  Jackie Mclean - Jackie's Bag
  Freddie Redd Quartet / Jackie Mclean - Music from the Connection
  Eddie Lockjaw Davis - Cookbook
  Freddie Hubbard - Blue Spirits
   
   
  Soon as I VPI these bad boys the Woo will be pumping some fine tunes.


----------



## Silent One

PanamaRed, you had a great outing! To compliment that bounty, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you could pre-order Jaco Pastorius!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





panamared said:


> 4.3 guys? C'mon now. A weak quake like that should only scare tourists


 
   
  Yes, I agree that 4.3 wasn't that much.


----------



## Ahzari

-deleted-


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> -deleted-


 


  Not sure what ended up on the cutting room floor... nice avatar though!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not sure what ended up on the cutting room floor... nice avatar though!


 


  oh it was a question Jack ended up answering about how bad an idea it is to use the 6SN7 adaptor with the SE... he didn't recommend it. Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> oh it was a question Jack ended up answering about how bad an idea it is to use the 6SN7 adaptor with the SE... he didn't recommend it. Thanks!


 

 What reason did he give, if I may ask? When I approached him about the matter in 2010, he said make sure you have _this_ (check!), _that_ (check!!) and the _other_ (check!!!). And that I'd be good. And then later during the same exchange he proceeded to sell me my very first pair of 6SN7 tubes - NOS GE 6SN7GTA-1953 for $80. 
   
  I had concerns about putting my amp in harms way, so I contacted him about the adapters. To be clear, he wasn't in favor of it then, but was supportive if the user knew what they were doing. And though this concept has been asked and answered a number of times in the past 18 months alone - especially post "Tube Compatibility Chart" release - here's an opportunity for you to update new users in the thread.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> PanamaRed, you had a great outing! To compliment that bounty,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Nice looking out Silent. I think this might very well be my first 45


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What reason did he give, if I may ask? When I approached him about the matter in 2010, he said make sure you have _this_ (check!), _that_ (check!!) and the _other_ (check!!!). And that I'd be good. And then later during the same exchange he proceeded to sell me my very first pair of 6SN7 tubes - NOS GE 6SN7GTA-1953 for $80.
> 
> I had concerns about putting my amp in harms way, so I contacted him about the adapters. To be clear, he wasn't in favor of it then, but was supportive if the user knew what they were doing. And though this concept has been asked and answered a number of times in the past 18 months alone - especially post "Tube Compatibility Chart" release - here's an opportunity for you to update new users in the thread.


 
  This is what I asked:
   
  "I was wondering why the 6SN7 adaptor is not sold as a upgrade option for the WA6SE, will is not work properly on the SE model?"

 This was the response:
   
  "WA6 and 6SE are different design although the same stock tubes are used. 6SN7 can be damaged on the 6SE if you use it."
   
  So maybe the newest models have a different design from previous ones... I received my SE in January this year.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> This is what I asked:
> 
> "I was wondering why the 6SN7 adaptor is not sold as a upgrade option for the WA6SE, will is not work properly on the SE model?"
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for responding. Nothing new as far as I can determine though. This was his view in 2010 and questions arose again in the thread when the Tube Compatibility Chart was released. The _Special Edition_ needs an added capacitor and resistor inside the adapter. Otherwise, I would not risk my Mid-1940's Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate VT-231/6SN7GT tubes in there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Nice looking out Silent. I think this might very well be my first 45


 

 Over the years, the LP kept lurking in the back of mind. Then the CD... and never made a purchase. So today, I finally ordered the CD and if I can find someone with high-end TT and Metric Halo gear or something, I'd like to buy the Audiophile 45's and get it ripped @ 192 kHz.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> This is what I asked:
> 
> "I was wondering why the 6SN7 adaptor is not sold as a upgrade option for the WA6SE, will is not work properly on the SE model?"
> 
> ...


 


  The take away is that it is the tube that is at risk, not the amp.  The 6SE basically runs them too hard and will burn them up fairly fast without the resistor in place, which I'm assuming steps down the plate current but Glenn would be better equipped to answer that detail than I am.


----------



## takezo

the 6se is very different from the wa6 and the driver dc cathode bias work at differing
  parameters. the high-gain 6se puts out more current than the 6sn7 family of tubes can
  handle, causing distortion in sound output and early death for the tube. these dc bias
  cathode have a resistor placed between it and the ground, replacing the need for extra
  stages (a separate negative dc voltage source for the grid stage) changing the value of
  the resistor allows the use of the 6sn7. but doing this is permanent and will limit tube
  rolling significantly. thus the resistor is added in series in the adaptor. since this is the
  driver cathode bias it affects the signal amplification rather than the power amplification
  stage. the 6se has a large cap bypassed with the resistor to short the ac signal passing
  through to the ground. without this cap the the gain will be slightly reduced and noise
  is introduced. for example, using the lcd2 one would go from 10 o'clock to 10:30. not very
  significant. of course this will change depending on your cd/dac vrms. but for filtering the
  ac signal, the large cap is essential. i've tried both using a small cap value bypassing the
  resistor and without, within the adapter. while it does affect the gain, the SQ
  doesn't seem to be affected at all in my use. the large cap before the adapter must be
  filtering out all significant ac signal, imo.
   
  btw, the large cap bypassing the cathode bias resistor in the 6se stock is very poor.
  replacing this cap with higher quality capacitor really helps with headroom, separation of
  notes and lowering noise floor, imo.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





takezo said:


> btw, the large cap bypassing the cathode bias resistor in the 6se stock is very poor.
> replacing this cap with higher quality capacitor really helps with sound quality, imo.


 
   
  Since that is the case it would probably behoove me to use my money towards having the poor cap replaced with a higher quality cap before I started investing in tubes and/or interconnects.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





takezo said:


> the 6se is very different from the wa6 and the driver dc cathode bias work at differing
> parameters. the high-gain 6se puts out more current than the 6sn7 family of tubes can
> handle, causing distortion in sound output and early death for the tube. these dc bias
> cathode have a resistor placed between it and the ground, replacing the need for extra
> ...


 

 Thanks for the well thought out explanation - reference material to be sure! And deserves to be "Stickied." Yes, it will come up again in this thread... right dab smack in the middle of your playing piano for relaxation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Had I not bought a new amp, I was going to have you or 2359glenn "Hot rod" my _WA 6 Special Edition_.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the well thought out explanation - reference material to be sure! And deserves to be "Stickied." Yes, it will come up again in this thread... right dab smack in the middle of your playing piano for relaxation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Maybe they can hot rod your future WA5?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Maybe they can hot rod your future WA5?


 


  How much soup must one eat?


----------



## hodgjy

I'm still on a soup diet after bringing the Trafomatic home.  Although, the new amp did inspire me to drop about $100 on new CDs over the last two weeks.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> How much soup must one eat?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How much soup must one eat?


 


  Ha! 
   
  We can call it the _Ramen for Gear_ movement.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm still on a soup diet after bringing the Trafomatic home.  Although, the new amp did inspire me to drop about $100 on new CDs over the last two weeks.


 

 When greed = hunger. Initially, I began saving for the WA6, eating quite well and having delicate tea with the Emperor himself! Once that goal was reached, I opened up the front door to retrieve the mail and found "Upgrade-itis" standing on the porch. 
   
  "No problem" or so I thought. Saving up for the _6 Special Edition_ (while out of work) meant Soup For One over the next few months. Dynamically speaking, it was worth it! I can't wait to get some new music into the library this spring, by the way!


----------



## Johmem

Hmm, I'm discovering a downside to having a nice headphone rig.  I just got my RS1is a few weeks ago and my WA6 a few days ago.
   
  I've been going through my collection of CD rips (flac) noticing some things.  Some of my favorite albums are almost unlistenable.  Red Hot Chili Peppers "Californication" is actually painful, IMO.  Tool's "Undertow", one of my alltime favorite albums, sounds pretty crappy too. 
   
  On the other hand Rage against the Machine's self titled is mindblowing.  I'm finding strange pleasure in listening to the pickup noise in Stevie Ray Vaughn's version of Little Wing, I've never heard it there before.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Hmm, I'm discovering a downside to having a nice headphone rig.  I just got my RS1is a few weeks ago and my WA6 a few days ago.
> 
> I've been going through my collection of CD rips (flac) noticing some things.  Some of my favorite albums are almost unlistenable.  Red Hot Chili Peppers "Californication" is actually painful, IMO.  Tool's "Undertow", one of my alltime favorite albums, sounds pretty crappy too.
> 
> On the other hand Rage against the Machine's self titled is mindblowing.  I'm finding strange pleasure in listening to the pickup noise in Stevie Ray Vaughn's version of Little Wing, I've never heard it there before.


 

 I'm struggling with this too. With every increase in fidelity, my favorites are falling by the wayside.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ha!
> 
> We can call it the _Ramen for Gear_ movement.


 


  Isn't _Ramen for Gear_ a publication for audiophiles? Or am I thinking of _Top Gear_ for Auto enthusiasts?!


----------



## hodgjy

But, on the positive flip side, those wonderful recordings become more sublime.  I never knew Alice in Chains Unplugged was such a wonderful recording until my WA3 showed me the way.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm struggling with this too. With every increase in fidelity, my favorites are falling by the wayside.


----------



## Silent One

True. Also, tracks that once sounded rather forgettable on the Woo, now sound much improved on the OTL. But tracks that sounded stellar on the Woo sound pedestrian on the OTL at best. My entire music library is in disarray.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm still getting acquainted with the Trafomatic for some of the same reasons you describe.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> True. Also, tracks that once sounded rather forgettable on the Woo, now sound much improved on the OTL. But tracks that sounded stellar on the Woo sound pedestrian on the OTL at best. My entire music library is in disarray.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> True. Also, tracks that once sounded rather forgettable on the Woo, now sound much improved on the OTL. But tracks that sounded stellar on the Woo sound pedestrian on the OTL at best. My entire music library is in disarray.


 


_ I wonder what exactly that means. Sometimes I think that there is not enough exact English words to describe what we heard in sound. All I can say it is a different presentation. _


----------



## hodgjy

My mention of Alice in Chains Unplugged made me get out Nirvana Unplugged.  Man, what an amazing album as well.  Kurt's late voice is just as haunting as Lane's.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It was the same for me.  Recordings I used to think were poor have turned out to sound great, and some tracks I used to really enjoy don't have their magic anymore or sound poorly recorded.  Lots of subtle things in play that can really change the presentation of a song from amp to amp.  It just goes to show there is no magic bullet that makes everything sound right, and really helps shed some light on why some people have multiple amps.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How much soup must one eat?


 


  Soup???  That is too expensive, only once a while. 
   

   
  I have to eat this for a long long time to fund my WA22.


----------



## Clayton SF

Has anyone pre-ordered the new Woo Audio WTP-1 and WDS-1 (CD transport and DAC)?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Has anyone pre-ordered the new Woo Audio WTP-1 and WDS-1 (CD transport and DAC)?


 


  I think you should take one for the team, the looks great in your Woo museum.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Plus I can audition the DAC while I'm on business trip to SF in May.


----------



## hodgjy

I second that motion!  All in favor, say, "Yea."
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think you should take one for the team, the looks great in your Woo museum.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I second that motion!  All in favor, say, "Yea."


 


  I was thinking take one for the team on this but the Nikon D800's release later this month took all my toy budget away.


----------



## hodgjy

Does the Nikon D800 play FLAC files?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I was thinking take one for the team on this but the Nikon D800's release later this month took all my toy budget away.


----------



## Clayton SF

Ow ow ow ow ow. Twist my arm. I'm emailing Jack to get some details on these units but until then....
  Drool....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Does the Nikon D800 play FLAC files?


 


  No but it does RAW...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ow ow ow ow ow. Twist my arm. I'm emailing Jack to get some details on these units but until then....
> Drool....


 







 And it comes in the requisite Silver!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Soup???  That is too expensive, only once a while.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to eat this for a long long time to fund my WA22.


 


  Ahhhhh, University days are here again...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And it comes in the requisite Silver!


 

 Or with black accents!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It was the same for me.  Recordings I used to think were poor have turned out to sound great, and some tracks I used to really enjoy don't have their magic anymore or sound poorly recorded.  Lots of subtle things in play that can really change the presentation of a song from amp to amp.  It just goes to show there is no magic bullet that makes everything sound right, and really helps shed some light on why some people have multiple amps.


 








 A few of my paid downloads from HDtracks no sound no good no mo'...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> _ I wonder what exactly that means. Sometimes I think that there is not enough exact English words to describe what we heard in sound. All I can say it is a different presentation. _


 

 I can cover a lot of ground using only three English words - Good... Bad... Indifferent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I understand what you're sayin'.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Or with black accents!


 






 Despite Print Media's best efforts, it'd definitely look better inside your apartment.


----------



## sunmonkey

I'll admit, I find this particularly interesting. I've always assumed, that as you moved up the line towards some idealized audio nirvana, that there was also an accompanying convergence of sound and its characteristics, and while a person might still encounter flavors of sound, they would be subtle enough that swapping between high-end wouldn't cause that person to suddenly reconsider certain cuts (and vice versa; finding new life in old stuff.)
   
  I suppose that all calls into question, "what is the perfect sound?" as it relates to reproduction. Idealized being "recreate exactly the original performance." 
   
  I have opinions, but don know. Just thinking out loud, and going off topic. Apologies. But this is neat for some reason.  
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> A few of my paid downloads from HDtracks no sound no good no mo'...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Despite Print Media's best efforts, it'd definitely look better inside your apartment.


 


  1000% agree, it will looks amazing along with all the Woo you have.


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> But, on the positive flip side, those wonderful recordings become more sublime.  I never knew Alice in Chains Unplugged was such a wonderful recording until my WA3 showed me the way.


 

 You are making me go dig out my copy of Alice in Chains Unplugged.  I have all thier other albums on my computer (and they sound good on the Woo), but for some reason never ripped that one.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> 1000% agree, it will looks amazing along with all the Woo you have.


 
   
  It certainly will look its best amongst the rest.


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of the new Woo Audio gear, I've been thinking for some time, about possibly rallying support for Woo Audio to get product placement in Hollywood - Film or TV series. Collectively, even if we failed we'd succeed due to the level of awareness it would raise among those in and around production. 
   
  On the television show THE GOOD WIFE, Attorney Will Gardner just accepted a 6 month suspension. Would've been great to see Woo Audio gear in his home... _now that he's home._


----------



## grokit

Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> It was the same for me.  Recordings I used to think were poor have turned out to sound great, and some tracks I used to really enjoy don't have their magic anymore or sound poorly recorded.  Lots of subtle things in play that can really change the presentation of a song from amp to amp.  It just goes to show there is no magic bullet that makes everything sound right, and really helps shed some light on why some people have multiple amps.


 

 It helps to have complimentary headphones, if the HD 800 is too resolving for a poor or thin sounding recording, the LCD-2 r.1 picks up the slack nicely as it's very forgiving in those areas.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> On the television show THE GOOD WIFE, Attorney Will Gardner just accepted a 6 month suspension. Would've been great to see Woo Audio gear in his home... _now that he's home._


 

 Great show!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> It helps to have complimentary headphones, if the HD 800 is too resolving for a poor or thin sounding recording, the LCD-2 r.1 picks up the slack nicely as it's very forgiving in those areas.
> 
> ...


 


  You might have made your move too soon! Had you not left us in the Lower 48 to do whatever it is we do, we could have started our meetings with THE GOOD WIFE. And then transitioned over to Woo Audio and refreshments. Anyone else want to see product placement for Woo Audio in film and television?


----------



## grokit

We need to get Dr. House a Woo to go with his Sota turntable!


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





grokit said:


> We need to get Dr. House a Woo to go with his Sota turntable!


 


  Only problem is that he wears Bose when he uses headphones.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Hmm, I'm discovering a downside to having a nice headphone rig.  I just got my RS1is a few weeks ago and my WA6 a few days ago.
> 
> I've been going through my collection of CD rips (flac) noticing some things.  Some of my favorite albums are almost unlistenable.  Red Hot Chili Peppers "Californication" is actually painful, IMO.  *Tool's "Undertow"*, one of my alltime favorite albums, sounds pretty crappy too.
> 
> On the other hand Rage against the Machine's self titled is mindblowing.  I'm finding strange pleasure in listening to the pickup noise in Stevie Ray Vaughn's version of Little Wing, I've never heard it there before.


 

 Yeah, the mastering on 'Undertow' is terrible.  On my previous, lesser systems and in the car this can usually be cured with a bit of eq albeit with some loss of overall SQ (the mastering is that bad).  As I have progressed up in SQ that disc has become practically unbearable to the point that i can now only enjoy it in the car!  I have similar problems with The Black Keys' "Brothers".  It's a different mastering issue that ruins this particular recording: DR compression.  It is so bad that I cannot manage to sit through more than a song or two before having to switch to something else.  Even in the car.  Truly horrible mangling of what is otherwise a perfectly good recording.  
   
  This is a perfect example of why the source material is key and usually the biggest factor in reproduction.  Unfortunately, it is the one factor that we, as hobbyists, cannot change or fix.  Makes me very sad....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> We need to get Dr. House a Woo to go with his Sota turntable!


 

 That'd be an excellent placement - when asked "What is it?" I'd love to hear Dr. House's response!


----------



## musicman59

[size=medium]As soon as Woo advertised their new line of adapters I ordered a pair of the 6F8G to 6SN7 ones. I received them and thought they were beautiful. Their body if made of white silicone and all the contacts are gold plated. One thing I noticed is that the wire going to the cap was really thin. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]When I installed them with my TS BGRP 6F8G tubes I notice a hum noise. Checking around what was causing it I came to the conclusion it was the think cap wire. Apparently it was picking up some interference from the 300B tubes because moving it around the hum was going away or coming back.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I thought about isolating the wire better so I cover them with aluminum foil and the hum was basically gone so that confirmed my theory.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]As you know Woo Audio is very busy launching new products and I understand their priorities so I decided to contact Glenn (2359Glenn) to see if he could rework them. After talking to Glenn and sending him some pictures of the adapters he graciously helped me out.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I sent the adapters to Glenn and in a few days I received back the adapters with a new thicker cap wire and new caps. I tried them last night and my WA5-LE is death quite!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I want to publicly thank Glenn for his help and all the help he has been providing to this community. Thanks Glen!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## davidio

It looks like the Woo Audio 6 sections have all been abandoned for some time now.  I recently aquired this model, and was disappointed in the sound.  Mind you, I was comparing to an imod with an ALO V-cap dock and Stepdance portable amp.  So, the stock WA6 was missing some impact for me and some guts.  Tuberolling didn't satisfy:  Either the sound was far-away and non-impactful, or close and thin sounding.  (Note: I mostly listen to classic pop/rock/country and my headphones are Senn HD650s).  Since Jack no longer upgrades the WA6, I found a local audio company.  I thought, it's great to keep my business in the community, after all.  Jeff at Audio Solutions here in Indianapolis upgraded it for me, using Mundorf Silver oils.  I asked for V caps and blackgates, but soon realized my timing was off:  Blackgate caps are so expensive now, and hard to find.  Jeff assured me that, at a fraction of the cost, Mundorf silvers come very close to the neutrality of V's for coupling, and that he could find other ways of enhancing the quality.
   
  Now, I know good sound but I don't know all the physics of amp building.  I'm an audiophile listener, not a scientist or mathematician.  So, this information is coming from a mechanical novice.  Jeff showed me what he'd done to my Woo 6.  There were four bypass caps (I think he said they were .5's) and larger coupling caps (I think he said .22's).  Asked Jeff about the heat issue, as I understand that mundorf oils don't handle it well.  I think 130 degree F is as hot as they can stand.  Jack assured me that this amp doesn't run hot enough for this to be an issue.  Since the work is guaranteed, I suppose...we shall see if the heat becomes a problem.  I got the unit back Monday and have been letting the new caps burn-in.  Right away, the sound of the amp had more detail and weight, although the sound tilted toward the upper frequencies.  But I could tell I was in for a treat.  After 60 hours, the caps are sounding warmer with better bass impact, while still retaining the detail.  I had no idea anything could sound so good, and it is only getting better! 
   
  I recommend keeping business in the community and upgrading locally. 
   
  I have acquired a few tubes, but my favorite combination so far is the GZ34 Mullard/Holland metal base '57 rectifier with 6FD7 drivers...This combo brings the sound closer and makes it lush.  If you are just getting into tuberolling and you like full, warm, lush sound that is close-up, save money and just get 6FD7 driver tubes.  And, my favorite part, it gives weight to each instrument and voice...I hate thin sound!  Also have Brimar CV1988 6SN7's (is that the right code number?) and they sound very refined and exact, beautifully so...but the sound signature puts the performers way out in front of the listener to accomplish this.  With the GZ34, a balance it struck, but still the sound seems a bit thin.  I'm hoping that the this combo will improve when the caps have reached potential.  Because the GZ34 seems to bring everything in a closer, while the Brimars push back for more detail and spaciousness.  Hmmm.  Time will tell.  Since the upgrade, the 6EW7s, which seemed warm enough but with no impact, seem to have some slam.  So I will give them another try.  The GZ34 should work well with them.  When the sound source is my imod/v-cap dock, the sound in general has more presence. Haven't tried it yet, as I'm burning-in using my computer itunes library.  More to report later after 200 hours of burn in time!


----------



## Silent One

davidio -
   
  Your experience will serve to enrich this thread; be of benefit to many. Glad to see you share and looking forward to your follow-up, post 200 hours.


----------



## PanamaRed

Just a heads up to my fellow Woonadians:
   
  I am selling matched pairs of Tungsol 5998 and GEC 6080:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/600160/tungsol-5998-match-pair
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/600098/gec-g-e-c-6080-tubes-best-of-the-best


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Just a heads up to my fellow Woonadians:
> 
> I am selling matched pairs of Tungsol 5998 and GEC 6080:
> 
> ...


 







 Hmmm.... ok, I'll call!


----------



## Sid-Fi

I guess I'm officially rolling tubes already even though my amp is probably still two weeks out. Feels surprising cool to have my first tubes  Something about having a shiny new black modern WA22 and 1955 vintage tubes glowing just seems like a cool combination.
   
  Starting out with Mullard GZ37 rectifier, Sylvania 7236 power, and Sylvania 6sn7 GTA driver tubes. Sorry for the horrible pic. Definitely no nice SLR here lol. Left off the flash to reduce glare.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





davidio said:


> It looks like the Woo Audio 6 sections have all been abandoned for some time now.  I recently aquired this model, and was disappointed in the sound.  Mind you, I was comparing to an imod with an ALO V-cap dock and Stepdance portable amp.  So, the stock WA6 was missing some impact for me and some guts. * Tuberolling didn't satisfy:  Either the sound was far-away and non-impactful, or close and thin sounding.  (Note: I mostly listen to classic pop/rock/country and my headphones are Senn HD650s).  Since Jack no longer upgrades the WA6, I found a local audio company.  I thought, it's great to keep my business in the community, after all.  Jeff at Audio Solutions here in Indianapolis upgraded it for me, using Mundorf Silver oils.  I asked for V caps and blackgates, but soon realized my timing was off:  Blackgate caps are so expensive now, and hard to find.  Jeff assured me that, at a fraction of the cost, Mundorf silvers come very close to the neutrality of V's for coupling, and that he could find other ways of enhancing the quality.*


 
   
  My local dealer also highly recommends the Mundorf Silver PIO caps for their musicality, they get a good write up in most reviews (Such as Jon L's). I'm having my Phono stage upgraded with these right now, if the change is positive through burn in I'll change the coupling caps in my Woo 5 too.
   
  Its not a difficult mod to reverse if it doesn't go well.
   
  How are you/did you find the burn in on the caps?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got HD 800s!! listening to them with my WA2.
   
   
   
  omg.... its insane.
   
  the WA2 is really starting to show me whats its capable of....it has alot more power than i thought, and it really brings the best out of these headphones. they sound so much better than last time i heard them. more to come.
   
   
  waiting for my T1 still....


----------



## hodgjy

Congrats!  The 800s do seem like the bee's knees.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got HD 800s!! listening to them with my WA2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got HD 800s!! listening to them with my WA2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Even Dubstep Mom is gonna wanna hear 'em! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats! I know it's going to be BIG fun when the T1's return, fighting for a starting position in your rotation. Better still, seldom played tracks you left behind in obscurity now have a shot at getting played.


----------



## ardilla

Anybody heard the *LCD-3* on the *WA2 *?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the WA2 with sylvania 7236 can barely drive the LCD-2, i doubt it will have the muscle for the LCD-3.
   
  it works great with high impedance like T1 / Hd 800 though...


----------



## melomaniac

darn, ever since I got so into custom IEMs, my two Beyer setups have just been sitting there in the dust... including one right here, with my WA3+ and all the vintage toobs you wanna tweak in... I'll have to mend my ways!


----------



## ardilla

It drives my LCD-2's just fine....* *(with 6H13 or 5998)
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the WA2 with sylvania 7236 can barely drive the LCD-2, i doubt it will have the muscle for the LCD-3.
> 
> it works great with high impedance like T1 / Hd 800 though...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

for me i can't get it as loud as i can with the WA6-SE. it just can't get very loud at all. sounds fine but only low volumes on slower songs that dont have complex bass passages.


----------



## ardilla

6H13 and 5998 has higher gain if I'm not mistaken. But the 1,9 watts from the WA6SE surely gives the bass notes something to run for I guess..... I listen at moderate levels, though. 

  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> for me i can't get it as loud as i can with the WA6-SE. it just can't get very loud at all. sounds fine but only low volumes on slower songs that dont have complex bass passages.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i listen at louder than average, but not super loud levels.


----------



## Draygonn

dubstep girl said:


> just got HD 800s!! listening to them with my WA2.
> 
> 
> 
> omg.... its insane.




Congrats DG 

when your T1s come back treat us with a pic of your collection.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i listen at louder than average, but not super loud levels.


 

 It "sounds" like you've calmed down a bit


----------



## Dubstep Girl

will update my stuff when i get my t1 back. 
   
  also definitely gonna buy some D7000 and probably gonna get the lawton mod on them. i'm really falling in love with snapple's pair. trying to sell my d2000 as well to help pay for some of it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> will update my stuff when i get my t1 back.
> 
> also definitely gonna buy some D7000 and probably gonna get the lawton mod on them. *i'm really falling in love with snapple's pair. *trying to sell my d2000 as well to help pay for some of it.


 









 It's 12 Mars, you're holding up the program already! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll contact her (negotiate?) for a potential listen. I'll only need a 30 second sample with "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr. to know if Lawton mod is for me!  Curiously, what is she listening to now (what cans) in absence of the D7000? 
   
  I'm really excited to hear you go with D7000's!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> will update my stuff when i get my t1 back.
> 
> also definitely gonna buy some D7000 and probably gonna get the lawton mod on them. i'm really falling in love with snapple's pair. trying to sell my d2000 as well to help pay for some of it.


 

 I see you also have the W5000. You should try the W3000ANV. I am loving them to the point they have made me forget giving time to my D7000 and DX10000. Over the weekend I listened to them rolling my Mullard ECC32 and my RCA 5692 Red Base. OMG
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 awesome ! To me they are like the HD800 of the closed headphones world.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I see you also have the W5000. *You should try the W3000ANV*. I am loving them to the point they have made me forget giving time to my D7000 and DX10000. Over the weekend I listened to them rolling my Mullard ECC32 and my RCA 5692 Red Base. OMG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How's the Bass/Sub Bass on dem bad boys?! Listening stock? Any plans for Zeus (stupid question! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )? Could this be the next cans for Silent One?? Is Robert pushing 'em (yet)???


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I see you also have the W5000. You should try the W3000ANV. I am loving them to the point they have made me forget giving time to my D7000 and DX10000. Over the weekend I listened to them rolling my Mullard ECC32 and my RCA 5692 Red Base. OMG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  how do they compare to the w1000? i've heard them before and was quite impressed. the w5000s are smoother with better mids. 
   
  i would keep them but i need the cash right now. and also gonna make a d7000 purchase. i don't think i've had as much fun with a pair of headphone since i got my sr325is a while ago.
   
  gonna ship snapples denons back tomorrow since i've been lazy and listened to music all day (couldn't listen last week due to busy schedule + other problems)
   
   
   
  so when i'm done with all this, i'll have T1 / HD 800 / LCD-2 / D7000 with mod/ K 701 / DT 990 / RS1i / Pro 900 
   
  might sell sr325 depending on what price i get the d7000 for. i think the sr325 will have to go though since the t1 are very similar to them in detail and the rs1 is superior to them as well. debating on the dt 990 and pro 900 as well.


----------



## 188479

DG:
   
  How are the HD800's with the 6SE?  Would be interested in your thoughts between the 6 and the 2.  Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It "sounds" like you've calmed down a bit


 







 Um... if you say so! It's all relative, actually. DG has a roommate.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 I was thinking of past epic statements like this one...
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i'm gonna be deaf before i turn 25
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Seems like progress to me!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> I was thinking of past epic statements like this one...
> 
> ...


 






 Let's observe the observations, shall we? _First, we mean well Dubstep Girl. We want you around for future Head-Fi events. And living a higher quality of life - protect your hearing. _Anyway, what you see as progress, I see as temporary and relative to the environment - @ Home vs @ School. In the end, I believe DG will turn out to be just fine.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How's the Bass/Sub Bass on dem bad boys?! Listening stock? Any plans for Zeus (stupid question!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They are not for "basshead" but the bas is there when is in the recording and it can get low. It is similar case as the HD800 bass. Yes, listening stock. Since this are an special edition I think they will stay stock. 
  Nobody other than audiocubes sells them here in the US. As far as I know they are just for the Japanese market. You will better off ordering them from PriceJapan. They got here in 4 days. The detail level, soundstage and midrange is IMO better than my markl mod D7000 and my DX1000/Zeus to the point of thinking of selling them (maybe jus the D7000 since I consider the DX1000 a collective item).


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how do they compare to the w1000? i've heard them before and was quite impressed. the w5000s are smoother with better mids.
> 
> i would keep them but i need the cash right now. and also gonna make a d7000 purchase. i don't think i've had as much fun with a pair of headphone since i got my sr325is a while ago.
> 
> ...


 

 To me the W5000 are a little bit on the bright side and I have listen to the W1000 once in a meet and clearly the W3000ANV has a lot more detail and cleaner sound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Woo Audio WA6 will be here day after tomorrow. Extremely excited!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Woo Audio WA6 will be here day after tomorrow. Extremely excited!


 


  Just in time for spring... congrats! Are you going to listen to stock tubes to get a baseline or jumping in right away with other tubes?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just in time for spring... congrats! Are you going to listen to stock tubes to get a baseline or jumping in right away with other tubes?


 


  Already have the Sofia tube coming stock. It's a review sample, so it's fully loaded with Jack's best tubes, but I may look at some loaner replacement tubes for the time that I have it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Already have the Sofia tube coming stock. It's a review sample, so it's fully loaded with Jack's best tubes, but I may look at some loaner replacement tubes for the time that I have it.


 


  Just looked at iCal - "Woo-tastic Wednesday," Austin Morrow to post pix!


----------



## Rawrbington

just fired up old faithful for the first time in a while.
  she'd been neglected while i was playing with some new toys.
  second song in and i was jammin out in my chair like i only do when listening to it.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Ugh, about one more week before my WA22 arrives on my doorstep. I knew three weeks would feel long!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> just fired up old faithful for the first time in a while.
> she'd been neglected while i was playing with some new toys.
> second song in and i was jammin out in my chair like i only do when listening to it.


 







 Doc... I'm feelin' a bit Woo-less.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Ugh, about one more week before my WA22 arrives on my doorstep. I knew three weeks would feel long!


 


  Hmmm, let's see... Avatar  Tracking info   Avatar   Tracking info... they both look great! Hard to know which one you look at more frequently while you wait.


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm, let's see... Avatar  Tracking info   Avatar   Tracking info... they both look great! Hard to know which one you look at more frequently while you wait.


 

 Hmm... The WA22 in Sid's Avatar is on but no headphones are connected. I thought I read in the manual this was a no-no.
   
  P.S. Sid.. welcome to the family!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Hmm... The WA22 in Sid's Avatar is on but no headphones are connected. I thought I read in the manual this was a no-no.
> 
> P.S. Sid.. welcome to the family!


 


   That's Hollywood, man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You're right, though. Wait, wrong coast... that's Madison Ave!


----------



## emremusic

Hello Woo friends, 
   
  I've been away for a while, moved to a new city, new job, new wife...but my Wa6Se is the same, maxed with sophia, and black gates  It has about 500 hours of time on it, and it's sounding beautiful.
   
   I hope you are all well. 
   
  I'm now listening to Miles Davis on Miles Smiles Freedom Jazz dance. Tony's cymbal is killing me


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I'm now listening to Miles Davis on Miles Smiles Freedom Jazz dance. Tony's cymbal is killing me


 
   
  Excellent selection!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just looked at iCal - "Woo-tastic Wednesday," Austin Morrow to post pix!


 


  There will be lots o' pix!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Hello Woo friends,
> 
> I've been away for a while, moved to a new city, new job, new wife...but my Wa6Se is the same, maxed with sophia, and black gates  It has about 500 hours of time on it, and it's sounding beautiful.
> 
> ...


 






 Welcome back emremusic! I knew your absence had a positive vibe. Congrats on the new city, job and wife! This is one reason I didn't request my purchased CD "signed." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, truth be told, tweaks have interrupted my purchase of said CD. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Definitely gonna show you some love in April 2012. And now that you've gotten settled a bit, _I will request my CD signed._
   
  May your wife become enchanted with your Woo and your music. 'Miles.' Just reading your account will make my household chores a breeze this afternoon..._ _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> There will be lots o' pix!


 

 This is great... as is your enthusiasm! This thread can use a freshening up with more pix. Although, it is unclear how your event tomorrow made it onto my iPhone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The magic of Woo, I suppose...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is great... as is your enthusiasm! This thread can use a freshening up with more pix. Although, it is unclear how your event tomorrow made it onto my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, simple the magic of Woo.


----------



## emremusic

SilentOne, 
   
  By the way, thank you for your new years message, I didn't read it until some time later. Please PM me your address for your cd, no need to pay me. 
   
   
   
  So coming back to Head-fi has one downfall, reading about all this gear....now I'm wondering about what I need to spend my money on next.. Funny how I didn't think about this when I took a break from this site for a few months. 
   
   
  6GL7 + tube adaptors..can be a nice upgrade. I am happy with my dac (apogee duet) and my headphones (akg 702).. 
   
  Do I really need to spend on a new dac or cans?? Am I missing out?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> SilentOne,
> 
> By the way, thank you for your new years message, I didn't read it until some time later. Please PM me your address for your cd, no need to pay me.
> 
> ...


 






 The answers to those questions can easily be found in one's Checking/Savings Account... if they haven't been cleared out already! And if you pay attention to how many posts have been made since your last one, you're in for a shock! 
   
  Thanks kindly for your generous offer. My PM will be sent with gratitude.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Tony's cymbal is killing me


 

 In a good way I hope


----------



## bigmarcelo

I"ve just my my Woo WA2 last week.... got some upgraded tubes, but using the stock ones at the moment.... black in colour..... after a couple of days is sounding very nice indeed.... I'm using it mostly as a pre-amp, MDac, and NA7004 network player feeding FLAC music..... the sound is both detailed and warm, with the Mdac providing a large dynamic range, including bottom end.... I'm very, very happy with the set up ... only one week old and less then 50 hours on the woo ..... 
   
  for cans I have a HD650 with Moon audio silver cables... very nice, but I'm mostly listening through my speakers (monitor audio RX8).... nice bit of kit ....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





bigmarcelo said:


> I"ve just my my Woo WA2 last week.... got some upgraded tubes, but using the stock ones at the moment.... black in colour..... after a couple of days is sounding very nice indeed.... I'm using it mostly as a pre-amp, MDac, and NA7004 network player feeding FLAC music..... the sound is both detailed and warm, with the Mdac providing a large dynamic range, including bottom end.... I'm very, very happy with the set up ... only one week old and less then 50 hours on the woo .....
> 
> for cans I have a HD650 with Moon audio silver cables... very nice, but I'm mostly listening through my speakers (monitor audio RX8).... nice bit of kit ....


 
   
  I am also using my WA2 as a preamp for my speaker system. It is detailed and has that magic sound--it puts the life back into recorded music. The power amp is a Decware Taboo and the speakers are Zu Audio Standard Omens. I love using my WA2 as a preamp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I am also using my WA2 as a preamp for my speaker system.* It is detailed and has that magic sound--it puts the life back into recorded music*. The power amp is a Decware Taboo and the speakers are Zu Audio Standard Omens.* I love using my WA2 as a preamp.*


 


  +1


----------



## Rawrbington

the Taboo will drive speakers?
  i did not know that.
   
  yeah i love the wa2 preamp through my pioneer.
  not as much through the marantz though


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





bigmarcelo said:


> I"ve just my my Woo WA2 last week.... got some upgraded tubes, but using the stock ones at the moment.... black in colour..... after a couple of days is sounding very nice indeed.... I'm using it mostly as a pre-amp, MDac, and NA7004 network player feeding FLAC music..... the sound is both detailed and warm, with the Mdac providing a large dynamic range, including bottom end.... I'm very, very happy with the set up ... only one week old and less then 50 hours on the woo .....
> 
> for cans I have a HD650 with Moon audio silver cables... very nice, but I'm mostly listening through my speakers (monitor audio RX8).... nice bit of kit ....


 

 Awesome congtats, I may want to use the WA2 as a preamp one of these days (when I can afford another Woo) haha.


----------



## grokit

One of these days I'm going to turn my WA22 into a balanced preamp kind of like Seamaster's back in the day, but with a minor variation.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> the Taboo will drive speakers?
> i did not know that.
> 
> yeah i love the wa2 preamp through my pioneer.
> not as much through the marantz though


 

 Yes. The Taboo power amp will drive you crazy-good paired with the WA2.
  It is a match made in Heaven Wooville!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


>


 

 Clicked, and enlarged. Very nice!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

loving my WA6-SE / WA2 combo. however, the WA2 is a fantastic amp with my T1 and HD 800, absolutely stunning.
   
  and the WA6-SE works great with my LCD-2.
   
  i do use the WA2 because it adds alot of needed warmth and sweetness back into digital recordings.


----------



## shipsupt

With the right tubes the 6 SE is very good with the HD-800. The power and dynamics of the SE pair up nicely with the 800's. The right tubes take any edge off. Good stuff.







188479 said:


> DG:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## emremusic

There was more than 2000 messages since my last entry!
   
  I feel like I'm a little stuck.. or maybe I'm done upgrading?
   
  At this point I don't even know what to save up for. Will I hear a big difference between  LCD2 and my AKG 702 for example, and will the difference be worth $1000? Will I honestly hear the difference between dacs, and if so which one is better?? The new woo dec looks great, but will I be able to hear the difference? I can't really get a conclusive vibe from the forums sometimes, it seems like everybody is boasting about their own equipment..
   
   
  So you see, looks like I've been in the real world a little too long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The answers to those questions can easily be found in one's Checking/Savings Account... if they haven't been cleared out already! And if you pay attention to how many posts have been made since your last one, you're in for a shock!
> 
> Thanks kindly for your generous offer. My PM will be sent with gratitude.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> There was more than 2000 messages since my last entry!
> 
> I feel like I'm a little stuck.. or maybe I'm done upgrading?
> 
> ...


 


  Fellow member shipsupt is in a great position to answer your LCD-2/K702 question for the _6 Special Edition. _I understand where you are, though... it's a familiar place.


----------



## emremusic

Thank You! 
   
  I'm going to read his posts now.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Fellow member shipsupt is in a great position to answer your LCD-2/K702 question for the _6 Special Edition. _I understand where you are, though... it's a familiar place.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Thank You!
> 
> I'm going to read his posts now.


 

 I say this because he owns both cans (owns several others; has heard many more) as well as the _WA 6 Special Edition._ And understands value in audio. Best of luck!


----------



## grokit

There's a thread on Woo's new DAC and CD transport, but they have only been auditioned at a headphone meet I think and impressions are fleeting. I share your curiosity about that DAC *emremusic*.
   
  I think it's safe to say that it will be of great quality and we know that it looks great and will be supported very well by Woo. And there is a $100 discount to be had for those that want to be first in line on each unit while they are in the pre-order phase!


----------



## spagetka

I had a chance to listen both on my WA5 and frankly I was disappointed by LCD2's sound. But who knows?

  
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> There was more than 2000 messages since my last entry!
> 
> I feel like I'm a little stuck.. or maybe I'm done upgrading?
> 
> ...


----------



## bergnerm

I think it's a pretty amazing combination--but that's the only "real" setup I've experienced... I'm anxious for your compare/contrast with the T1s since I am considering getting those as a complement to my HD800.



dubstep girl said:


> just got HD 800s!! listening to them with my WA2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ahzari

Just received my LCD2s, going to try them on my WA6SE and ill post some initial impressions..


----------



## emremusic

AHZARI, 
  Can't wait to read your impressions...
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Just received my LCD2s, going to try them on my WA6SE and ill post some initial impressions..


----------



## Ahzari

Ok so initial impressions after several hours of listening and A/B'ing... Running ALAC and 320kbps files through my macbook air to my peachtree audio decco2 to my WA6SE running Sophia Princess rect and 6FD7 power tubes (believe they are RCA - but no label)
   
  Sadly, not that impressed with the audio. They look really cool though, but are on the heavier side so they do become uncomfy after an hour..
   
  Having the Ultrasone Signature Pros and the Denon D7000 to compare to, the LCD2 don't really do anything better than either of my other phones. One thing I have mixed feelings about is the ultra smooth treble (I tend to be sibilant sensitive); but its almost too laid back, like the HD650s and not even close to the detail retrieval level of the Signature Pros. Also the Soundstage on the D7000s still bests the LCD (I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but again this is how I hear it). The mid range, as many have described is very smooth, but I actually think it detracts from some recordings (especially electronic music - which I listen to a lot of).. Another thing I noticed because its so smooth I end up listening to much louder volumes to get the same level of enjoyment than I would with my other phones, I did notice the same trend with the HD650s, I guess without sibilance I don't notice loudness as much...
   
  Another thing, I have read a great deal about the LCD2s, they are supposed to be the king of "realistic sounding" bass, but honestly on my setup, compared to my D7000s and Signature Pros, they are at the same level if not a tad bit less exciting in the bass department. I'm not a believer of hundreds of hours of burn in but I will let them run for about 50 hours to see if anything changes (don't expect much to change; the HifiMan HE500s didn't change much/if at all with 100+ burn in).
   
  I am beginning to realize that if you want very detailed and dynamic sound, there is no escaping at least a little sibilance (which the Signature Pros and T1s have; while not over expressing sibilance, they don't hide it when its in the recording like the LCDs are doing). I always wanted a minimally sibilant headphone, but I wasn't too excited about the HD650 and now I am feeling about the same with the LCD2s. BUT, if ultra smoothness is what you are looking for and you are willing to sacrifice some clarity I believe the LCD2 is worth checking out, I am enjoying it more the HD650. I think I was initially seeking smoothness after the ultra sibilant Beyerdynamic DT990, Denon D2000s and Ultrasone Pro900s (when I started my audio journey) but I think maybe my taste has changed since then.
   
  Lastly, on build quality..
  I think its awesome that Audeze a relatively small company has made such a great headphone, but honestly for the price the build and feel of the Signature Pros and Denons fit the pricing category better. For example, when adjusting the headband not only is it really difficult on the Audeze, when it clicks into place there is a really cheap feel to it (just my thoughts). -btw I am a wood fan so that part of it I find very cool.
   
_This initial review is to state that the headphones just didn't WOW me compared to my other headphones on my particular setup, but they are still excellent sounding._


----------



## grokit

Give them some time, the rev.2 reportedly responds well to burn-in.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah they do improve soon enough. i too wasn't too thrilled when i got them. but eventually they got better and i think theyre right on par with the hd 800. they definitely sound like top tier headphones.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah they do improve soon enough. i too wasn't too thrilled when i got them. but eventually they got better and i think theyre right on par with the hd 800. they definitely sound like top tier headphones.


 


  No doubt they are top tier (I wasn't stating otherwise), but I consider my other phones top tier as well and besides the audio, my other problem with the LCD2 is comfort, the headband just hits all the wrong spots on my head.. I get a lot of pressure on several areas that become painful to the point that I really can't listen to them for over an hour, even at 30 mins it starts to become uncomfortable; that surely won't change with burn in haha , don't think these guys are going to be keepers for me, but I'll give it a little more time, if the audio ends up "wowing" me I may reconsider..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> No doubt they are top tier (I wasn't stating otherwise), but I consider my other phones top tier as well and besides the audio, my other problem with the LCD2 is comfort, the headband just hits all the wrong spots on my head.. I get a lot of pressure on several areas that become painful to the point that I really can't listen to them for over an hour, even at 30 mins it starts to become uncomfortable; that surely won't change with burn in haha , don't think these guys are going to be keepers for me, but I'll give it a little more time, if the audio ends up "wowing" me I may reconsider..


 

 Hopefully, you make it through the weekend... if not the month.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hopefully, you make it through the weekend... if not the month.


 


  haha thanks Silent One.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> No doubt they are top tier (I wasn't stating otherwise), but I consider my other phones top tier as well and besides the audio, my other problem with the LCD2 is comfort, the headband just hits all the wrong spots on my head.. I get a lot of pressure on several areas that become painful to the point that I really can't listen to them for over an hour, even at 30 mins it starts to become uncomfortable; that surely won't change with burn in haha , don't think these guys are going to be keepers for me, but I'll give it a little more time, if the audio ends up "wowing" me I may reconsider..


 


  You might be surprised about the headband.  This was a major issue for me with the K701 when it was new.  Within 15 minutes the "nub" at the top of the inner side of the headband would start causing sharp pain on the top of my head.  It was quite bad and far too distracting to try to listen to music in such a state.  It would drive me nuts. 
   
  At some point, I honestly can't even say when, it just stopped being a problem and I can wear them for hours with no pain now.  As for what changed I can't say, maybe my head got harder.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But perseverance and open mindedness are probably the two most valuable tools we can deploy against issues like this.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You might be surprised about the headband.  This was a major issue for me with the K701 when it was new.  Within 15 minutes the "nub" at the top of the inner side of the headband would start causing sharp pain on the top of my head.  It was quite bad and far too distracting to try to listen to music in such a state.  It would drive me nuts.
> 
> At some point, I honestly can't even say when, it just stopped being a problem and I can wear them for hours with no pain now.  As for what changed I can't say, maybe my head got harder.
> 
> ...


 


  Hmm, thats pretty interesting, I'll give it some more time and see what happens


----------



## Austin Morrow

My WA6 is a day late, but I'm happy that I'll be able to bring it up to the Seattle Head-Fi meet on April 14th. I'm really interested to hear how well it sounds with the new Sennheiser HD700.


----------



## BIG POPPA

You just wait Austin, you just might find more headphones that just rock your WA-6........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> My WA6 is a day late, but I'm happy that I'll be able to bring it up to the Seattle Head-Fi meet on April 14th. I'm really interested to hear how well it sounds with the new Sennheiser HD700.


----------



## Ahzari

Just wanted to show a comparison to how huge the pads are on the LCD2s, they are actually almost as massive as my old XB1000s haha
   
  From left to right (D7000s, Signature Pro, LCD2) 
   

   
  Sorry for the distracting scarves, I was too lazy to take them off the rack


----------



## emremusic

Thank you for the review. Im finding a lot of mixed opnions about lcd2.
   
  Now you have me interested D7000. I wonder how much the sound signature differs from the 701s. Need to research the forums some more..
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Ok so initial impressions after several hours of listening and A/B'ing... Running ALAC and 320kbps files through my macbook air to my peachtree audio decco2 to my WA6SE running Sophia Princess rect and 6FD7 power tubes (believe they are RCA - but no label)
> 
> Sadly, not that impressed with the audio. They look really cool though, but are on the heavier side so they do become uncomfy after an hour..
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Just wanted to show a comparison to how huge the pads are on the LCD2s, they are actually almost as massive as my old XB1000s haha
> 
> From left to right (D7000s, Signature Pro, LCD2)
> 
> ...


 

 Distracting? Hardly. This composition (in my view) is about "selection." The scarves are styled in their rightful places. Since I tend to listen three nights a week, you'd have me covered.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Thank you for the review. Im finding a lot of mixed opnions about lcd2.
> 
> Now you have me interested D7000. I wonder how much the sound signature differs from the 701s. Need to research the forums some more..


 

 Member joe posted a review on the D7000 a week and five days ago - it's located on the Home page. Then breeze through the few D7000 threads and you'll have a much better idea about 'em. Hope this helps!


----------



## dminches

I have found the LCD-2/3s to be the most balanced headphone from a frequency response perspective.  And I am not talking about graphs.  Compared to other models which I find to be too bright, the LCD-2/3s are very satisfying in the bass and lower mids where others are too light.  Obviously this is personal preference.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Distracting? Hardly. This composition (in my view) is about "selection." The scarves are styled in their rightful places. Since I tend to listen three nights a week, you'd have me covered.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Ahzari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Sorry for the distracting scarves, I was too lazy to take them off the rack


 

 WHAT A RACK!


----------



## Ahzari

Has anyone else heard about these ultra Denons....? Reason I call them ultra Denons is because Fostex took part in the design and production of the D2000/5000/7000 for Denon. and now the design of these new $2000 phones looks very similar to the D7000s


----------



## Draygonn

ahzari said:


> Has anyone else heard about these ultra Denons....? Reason I call them ultra Denons is because Fostex took part in the design and production of the D2000/5000/7000 for Denon. and now the design of these new $2000 phones looks very similar to the D7000s






Looks like Fostex wants to capitalize on the mega buck headphones trend. I was hoping they would use an improved version of the T50RP ortho drivers but they went with a bio-cellulose driver instead. With Fostex's expertise I'm sure they will sound good but for 2 grand they better be the shiz nittle bam snip snap sack.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Looks like Fostex wants to capitalize on the mega buck headphones trend. I was hoping they would use an improved version of the T50RP ortho drivers but they went with a bio-cellulose driver instead. With Fostex's expertise I'm sure they will sound good but for* 2 grand they better be the shiz nittle bam snip snap sack.*


 


  +1 thats competing with LCD-3 and electrostats.


----------



## Austin Morrow

WA6 pictures incoming! I'm very excited.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> WA6 pictures incoming! I'm very excited.


 
   
  wow very nice! great pics


----------



## hodgjy

I'm a little confused. Is this an amp that Woo is loaning you for an objective review, or is this an amp that you purchased for personal use?

Because if this is a loaner for a review, you can't have any preconceived emotions going into the review. Just like jurors being chosen for a trial, you have to remove yourself emotionally from the situation. You can't have expectations or bias going into it. Otherwise, you're doing your readers, and also Woo Audio, a great disservice. If you are giddy about this amp, it will inevitably and unintentionally influence your review.

I'm sorry if this seems totally out of left field, but I'm a professor and a scientist, and central to my profession is removing bias from our methods. I teach this to my students and felt the need to mention something here.



austin morrow said:


> WA6 pictures incoming! I'm very excited.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm a little confused. Is this an amp that Woo is loaning you for an objective review, or is this an amp that you purchased for personal use?
> Because if this is a loaner for a review, you can't have any preconceived emotions going into the review. Just like jurors being chosen for a trial, you have to remove yourself emotionally from the situation. You can't have expectations or bias going into it. Otherwise, you're doing your readers, and also Woo Audio, a great disservice. If you are giddy about this amp, it will inevitably and unintentional influence your review.
> I'm sorry if this seems totally out of left field, but I'm a professor and a scientist, and central to my profession is removing bias from our methods. I teach this to my students and felt the need to mention something here.


 

 Hey. I've already made a statement about how my reviews are dealt. Yes, anybody will always be excited when he/she gets things in the mail, but that doesn't effect my review AT ALL. I have no bias, and any say from the company or manufacturer is strictly prohibited due to an influential decision on the review. If a product sucks, I say it sucks, and I will literally loathe it. Yes, it was a review loaner, and I'm already having mixed feelings about it prior to burn in.
   
  While I do think it's a nice amp with a very wide, deep, and layered soundstage, good bass impact, very good coherency, and a nice tube-ish thick sound, it's not as amazing as everyone makes it out to be. It's good, and it's a solid performer in it's price range, but it sure isn't anything mind blowing. A first impression score would be about a 6.5/10. We'll have to see what burn in does.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks for answering me. I like what you do and want to see you succeed. Sometimes you have to ask the tough questions so you can judge the responses. The more up front you are about things, the more people will respect your reviews. I certainly will based on your up front response to my concern.



austin morrow said:


> Hey. I've already made a statement about how my reviews are dealt. Yes, anybody will always be excited when he/she gets things in the mail, but that doesn't effect my review AT ALL. I have no bias, and any say from the company or manufacturer is strictly prohibited due to an influential decision on the review. If a product sucks, I say it sucks, and I will literally loathe it. Yes, it was a review loaner, and I'm already having mixed feelings about it prior to burn in.
> 
> While I do think it's a nice amp with a very wide, deep, and layered soundstage, good bass impact, very good coherency, and a nice tube-ish thick sound, it's not as amazing as everyone makes it out to be. It's good, and it's a solid performer in it's price range, but it sure isn't anything mind blowing. A first impression score would be about a 6.5/10. We'll have to see what burn in does.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm a little confused. Is this an amp that Woo is loaning you for an objective review, or is this an amp that you purchased for personal use?
> Because if this is a loaner for a review, you can't have any preconceived emotions going into the review. Just like jurors being chosen for a trial, you have to remove yourself emotionally from the situation. You can't have expectations or bias going into it. Otherwise, you're doing your readers, and also Woo Audio, a great disservice. If you are giddy about this amp, it will inevitably and unintentionally influence your review.
> I'm sorry if this seems totally out of left field, but I'm a professor and a scientist, and central to my profession is removing bias from our methods. I teach this to my students and felt the need to mention something here.


 
   
  While I'm not a professor i've done extensive research throughout my undergraduate / professional education and in my opinion, you really can't take that train of thought (removing bias) and bring it into a headphone hifi enthusiast review process.. removing bias is scientific while music has a very emotional component to it; to try to remove that emotional component you would have to not care at all about the product and in that case be reviewing audio equipment professionally (I don't believe anyone on this thread is doing that) and even then, I think there will always be some sort of bias because we are not machines and reviewing audio related equipment in this situation is not a blind/ double blind test or experiment. 
   
  Haha I found this to be a rather unusual comment, no offense though hodgjy..


----------



## hodgjy

No offense taken. But, we will just have to agree to disagree.

For example, if you have preconceived emotions about an audio review, you will see comments like, "It performed better than expected", "it performed worse than expected", "it's not as good as everyone else thinks", and "I was disappointed in it." These clearly show a bias. 

Reviews need to only state the findings. They can be compared to other products. For example, "Amplifier A had much stronger treble than amplifier B." This is how science is done. And reviews are considered scientific if they are to be taken seriously. Can you imagine if emotions found their way into a life science, like biology? "We really wanted medication A to work and cure the disease, but it didn't." Or, "Medication B was twice as effective as medication A at clearing the infection." Which statement is better?

If you bought something, you can have whatever emotions you want. You can love or hate it all you want. But, if you are giving an unbiased review, you have to stick only to your findings. Readers and manufacturers are counting on that. This is why you see many reviewers state all their financial interests as a footnote in their reviews. They can't have any conflict of interest clouding their findings. In court, I'm sure many trials re very emotional. This is why they screen jurors in order to put together the most neutral group pretrial. 



ahzari said:


> While I'm not a professor i've done extensive research throughout my undergraduate / professional education and in my opinion, you really can't take that train of thought (removing bias) and bring it into a headphone hifi enthusiast review process.. removing bias is scientific while music has a very emotional component to it; to try to remove that emotional component you would have to not care at all about the product and in that case be reviewing audio equipment professionally (I don't believe anyone on this thread is doing that) and even then, I think there will always be some sort of bias because we are not machines and reviewing audio related equipment in this situation is not a blind/ double blind test or experiment.
> 
> Haha I found this to be a rather unusual comment, no offense though hodgjy..


----------



## Clayton SF

In addition to great music I love food and good restaurants as well. And good beer and and wine, too. And I get totally ecstatic in anticipation of a great place to eat when a friend tells me that there's this place that he or she has discovered that serves great food and wine (in his or her opinion of course) that I should check out. But when I actually go to the place and start to taste the food and experience the experience, I am still able to make up my own mind of what I like and what I don't like--and all points in between. And sometimes I've felt that my friends are right--it is a great place to dine; and sometimes I've said--eh--not so good. I trust and respect my friends' opinions and ultimately formulate my own.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> No offense taken. But, we will just have to agree to disagree.
> For example, if you have preconceived emotions about an audio review, you will see comments like, "It performed better than expected", "it performed worse than expected", "it's not as good as everyone else thinks", and "I was disappointed in it." These clearly show a bias.
> Reviews need to only state the findings. They can be compared to other products. For example, "Amplifier A had much stronger treble than amplifier B." This is how science is done. And reviews are considered scientific if they are to be taken seriously. Can you imagine if emotions found their way into a life science, like biology? "We really wanted medication A to work and cure the disease, but it didn't." Or, "Medication B was twice as effective as medication A at clearing the infection." Which statement is better?
> If you bought something, you can have whatever emotions you want. You can love or hate it all you want. But, if you are giving an unbiased review, you have to stick only to your findings. Readers and manufacturers are counting on that. This is why you see many reviewers state all their financial interests as a footnote in their reviews. They can't have any conflict of interest clouding their findings. In court, I'm sure many trials re very emotional. This is why they screen jurors in order to put together the most neutral group pretrial.


 

  
  I understand what you're saying, I have read many reviews that have lead me to purchase products that I ended up not liking myself (I was initially annoyed, but I learned to read reviews knowing there is bias - and that has helped me greatly), but even so called unbiased reviews will not suit the whole population right? Its never going to be like a biology, chemistry, physics experiment where you have a hypothesis and replicate the experiment to validate the results. Even if a large group of individuals are reviewing a product to create some generalized / normative feeling regarding it there are still outliers (people that for example thought the product was awful) that are not normally published especially in audio and electronics reviews (because thats bad for marketing)... for these reasons I feel like there is always bias.
   Anyways, at the end of the day.. Woo amps are great, thats all that matters right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   


  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> In addition to great music I love food and good restaurants as well. And good beer and and wine, too. And I get totally ecstatic in anticipation of a great place to eat when a friend tells me that there's this place that he or she has discovered that serves great food and wine (in his or her opinion of course) that I should check out. But when I actually go to the place and start to taste the food and experience the experience, I am still able to make up my own mind of what I like and what I don't like--and all points in between. And sometimes I've felt that my friends are right--it is a great place to dine; and sometimes I've said--eh--not so good. I trust and respect my friends' opinions and ultimately formulate my own.


 

 +1


----------



## hodgjy

I don't want to say a whole lot more about this because this conversation has the potential to derail this thread. But, I'll say where I'm coming from.

I do research for a living. When I go into an experiment, I don't go into it excited or thinking I'm going to love or hate it. I don't go into it hoping it's going to work or fail. It is what it is. I do it and get results. Success or failure are equally important. I report the results. This is how it is because people are counting on unbiased results. My love, hate, hope, excitement don't matter and the people reading my results don't care what my emotions are, either. They just want the results. If we go into something hoping it will work, we will sometimes find ways to justify it working when it may not have really done so. Same with failure and sabbotage. The reader needs to know that any emotions or bias didn't taint the results or interpretations. I can't have excitement or disappointment. I can only have results and interpretation. Once emotions creep in, it's no longer science. It's persuasion.





clayton sf said:


> In addition to great music I love food and good restaurants as well. And good beer and and wine, too. And I get totally ecstatic in anticipation of a great place to eat when a friend tells me that there's this place that he or she has discovered that serves great food and wine (in his or her opinion of course) that I should check out. But when I actually go to the place and start to taste the food and experience the experience, I am still able to make up my own mind of what I like and what I don't like--and all points in between. And sometimes I've felt that my friends are right--it is a great place to dine; and sometimes I've said--eh--not so good. I trust and respect my friends' opinions and ultimately formulate my own.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> No offense taken. But, we will just have to agree to disagree.
> For example, if you have preconceived emotions about an audio review, you will see comments like, "It performed better than expected", "it performed worse than expected", "it's not as good as everyone else thinks", and "I was disappointed in it." These clearly show a bias.
> Reviews need to only state the findings. They can be compared to other products. For example, "Amplifier A had much stronger treble than amplifier B." This is how science is done. And reviews are considered scientific if they are to be taken seriously. Can you imagine if emotions found their way into a life science, like biology? "We really wanted medication A to work and cure the disease, but it didn't." Or, "Medication B was twice as effective as medication A at clearing the infection." Which one is better?


 

 I am sorry but you really can't equity scientific findings to a opinionated headphone amp reviews. We all hear things differently, plus the fact that a headphone amp is just one part of of a audio rig. As I am sure you know, your audio rig is only as good as the weakest link in your audio chain.
  When you read a opinion of about a amp, headphones, source player, DAC, ect, you take it with a grain of salt, but compare to what others are saying about the same component and there opinions.
   
  Example, I have just gone into the Electrostatic world of amps and headphone. For me to form a good opinion of high end Electrostatic amps, it probably will take at year of comparing amps for my Stax headphones and rest of my rig. Going to a headphone meet is not really going to tell me anything, I need to hear the amp on my rig, in my room and for many days.
   
  btw, i don't think anything will "derail this thread".


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> btw, i don't think anything will "derail this thread".


 


  +1


----------



## Austin Morrow

All right everyone. No need to start a ruckus about reviews. Let's stay back on track. How's everyone enjoying their Woo's?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> btw, i don't think anything will "derail this thread".


 


  +2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This thread continues to prove resilient without fail. Although, there were some close calls in 2011...


----------



## hodgjy

You're right about that! 



sillysally said:


> i don't think anything will "derail this thread".




And you're also right that audio reviews are subjective. That's why we need to do our best to minimize as much subjectivity as possible. We can talk about interpretations of bass response, sound stage, treble, etc. That's all we can do and all one can hope for. I understand that and accept that. What we need to be cautious about are emotions leading into review. Audio reviews are subjective enough as it is without preconceived biases fueled by excitement, dread, etc. 

If science is to be taken seriously, there can be no emotions. If reviews are to be taken seriously, there can be no emotions. There can be no happiness or disappointment. There can only be observations. 

No one takes Stereophile reviews seriously anymore because they review products made by their sponsors. Of course they recommend them all. If a reviewer is excited or upset to having received a review sample, that puts the review in question. I made a point to say something about that to Austin. He's learning and has a bright future, and I'd like to see him succeed with his little review gig. I said what I did in that spirit.


----------



## emremusic

One thing I would love to see, is more blindfold tests. Not too many people on Head-fi seems to want to do this. I know can can jams or other meets may not be the best places for this but I would love to see blindfold tests of amp, cans, dacs. With devices that can be used as a/b switch to really isolate the difference. 
   
  Having said that, there are some things that a a blindfold test may not be able to tell, which is build quality. I know my 6SE sounds great, I love it. But I can feel that it's going to last a long time, which is important to me. It was costly, but I wanted something to last me for years and years. - Like the old saying, spend a lot of money fist- you cry once...
   
  For example my Total Bit head amp from headroom.. Initially the volume adjustor was very cheap build. After 2 months the cross feed stopped working. After 9 months of normal use, the jacks stopped working. Now its only a paper weight. (an ugly one at that) I know it's only $150 compared my 6SE which is worth ten times that. But I don't think I will buy anything from Headroom again. If they can sell something so cheaply made, I don't trust any of their products, even their $2500 dac/amps. 
   
  My woo is built like a tank, and I don't think it's going anywhere. 
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You're right about that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i really want a ps1000


----------



## bigmarcelo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> loving my WA6-SE / WA2 combo. however, the WA2 is a fantastic amp with my T1 and HD 800, absolutely stunning.
> 
> and the WA6-SE works great with my LCD-2.
> 
> i do use the WA2 because it adds alot of needed warmth and sweetness back into digital recordings.


 

 Yeap, it does warm up my Monitor Audio's RX8 for sure....


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Looks like Fostex wants to capitalize on the mega buck headphones trend. I was hoping they would use an improved version of the T50RP ortho drivers but they went with a bio-cellulose driver instead. With Fostex's expertise I'm sure they will sound good but for 2 grand they better be the shiz nittle bam snip snap sack.


 


  Yea I don't think I can go any deeper into the megabuck headphone category.. 1k is as megabucky as I'm willing to go - and I think I've maxed out for a while haha..


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi,
   
  I am interested in getting a DAC to add to my Woo Woo Room. I've narrowed it down to two so far:
   
Antelope Zodiac 192Khz; and the
Wyred4Sound DAC-2
   
  Any ready opinions on either of these?
   
  Thanks!
   
  The weekend is nigh; let's prepare to hit audio nirvana!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am interested in getting a DAC to add to my Woo Woo Room. I've narrowed it down to two so far:
> 
> ...


 



 Take a look at PS Audio Perfectwave, I just upgraded to the MK II version is basically floored on how good the NativeX is with USB in.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Take a look at PS Audio Perfectwave, I just upgraded to the MK II version is basically floored on how good the NativeX is with USB in.


 

 Will check it out. Thanks.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Take a look at PS Audio Perfectwave, I just upgraded to the MK II version is basically floored on how good the NativeX is with USB in.


 


 X2


----------



## john57

X3
   
  PS Audio is a good choice they seem to be able to adapt with the latest features and technology. I remember them from the early days when their first product was a phono preamp. I personally spoke face to face with their CEO at their headquarters in Boulder, CO. good vibes!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im putting up my akg k701 up for sale soon, wanted to see whos interested.
   
  i know you are silent.....


----------



## jc9394

Dubstep girl, pm me the price on k701, I may want o give it another try.


----------



## hodgjy

I know this is not a direct comparison because there's more to the circuit than just the DAC chip, but my Onkyo CD player uses the same WM8742 chip with the same five digital filters. I really like it and think it is very smooth and musical, yet highly detailed.



jc9394 said:


> Take a look at PS Audio Perfectwave, I just upgraded to the MK II version is basically floored on how good the NativeX is with USB in.


----------



## Clayton SF

Just delivered to my desk at work:
   
  DENON AH-D7000
   
  My very first Denon;
  My very first closed headphones; and
  My most expensive headphones thus far.
   
  (I only own 3 others. I'm way behind on my headphone inventory.)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im putting up my akg k701 up for sale soon, wanted to see whos interested.
> 
> i know you are silent.....


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Dubstep girl, pm me the price on k701, I may want o give it another try.


 


  Dubstep Girl, thanks for keeping me in mind while I sit in the dark anticipating a brighter tomorrow. jc9394, I think you should give it another go. Especially since your listening room has seen advances. Currently, auditioning K702's - though promising, not my bowl of tea with the compliment of gear I now have.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Just delivered to my desk at work:
> 
> DENON AH-D7000
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

During the last few years on Head-Fi, I have observed several members indicting the Denon AH-D7000 well under 100 hours. Some of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 were Woo Audio members. And proceeded to throw the baby out with the bath water... pity. May your patience be rewarded, Clayton SF; Dubstep Girl.


----------



## PanamaRed

I'd really like to take a listen to the D7000s. I've heard some very good things. I'm mostly intrigued at hearing the bass quality i've read about and checking out the soundstage they offer.
   
  Truth be told, i've never been much of a closed can man, but it sounds like the D7000s might change my mind.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Just delivered to my desk at work:
> 
> DENON AH-D7000
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats Clayton, no doubt you will enjoy those bad boys )) awesome phones.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





panamared said:


> I'd really like to take a listen to the D7000s. I've heard some very good things. I'm mostly intrigued at hearing the bass quality i've read about and checking out the soundstage they offer.
> 
> Truth be told, i've never been much of a closed can man, but it sounds like the D7000s might change my mind.


 


  For a closed can, the soundstage on the D7000s are the best I've ever heard, they sometimes rival open cans (like the Pro2900 and HD650).. The bass quality is also among the best, only beaten out by my Signature Pros (by a little bit).


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> For a closed can, the soundstage on the D7000s are the best I've ever heard, they sometimes rival open cans (like the Pro2900 and HD650).. The bass quality is also among the best, only beaten out by my Signature Pros (by a little bit).


 

 I own the D7000 and the DX1000 but the best soundstage in a close can to me is from the W3000ANV. I call them the HD800 of closed cans


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I own the D7000 and the DX1000 but the best soundstage in a close can to me is from the W3000ANV. I call them the HD800 of closed cans


 

 The W3000ANV may be my next can. Tell me, how do those cans fit your head? I hear those wings can be a challenge.


----------



## Silent One

Woo Audio amp/Denon D7000 pairings...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> During the last few years on Head-Fi, I have observed several members indicting the Denon AH-D7000 well under 100 hours. Some of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You talking about me??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm regretting selling it now and wants it back now...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Woo Audio amp/Denon D7000 pairings...


 


  That is very nice pairing but you have to find more SS sounding tubes...  Don't kill me, but I think D7000 sounded the best out of SS amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You talking about me???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is very nice pairing but you have to find more SS sounding tubes...  *Don't kill me, but I think D7000 sounded the best out of SS amp.*


 

 I agree with you on this one. I've bought (and sold) the D7000 twice. But I won't be going back for thirds.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The W3000ANV may be my next can. Tell me, how do those cans fit your head? I hear those wings can be a challenge.


 

 I use hats size 7 or 7 1/8. They were a little bit loose but I applied a little pressure on the head band to close it a little bit and now they are perfect and very comfortable. These cans are making me think selling my D7000 (Markl mods in the driver assembly and jMoney pads) and maybe my DX1000 with the Zeus cable (which helped a lot improving their sound).
   
  These W3000ANV out of my WA5-LE sound just amazing.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I agree with you on this one. I've bought (and sold) the D7000 twice. But I won't be going back for thirds.


 


  I just need to heard it on the beta22 one more time.  Only if I can find someone let me borrow it for a week or two...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> For example, if you have preconceived emotions about an audio review, you will see comments like, "It performed better than expected", "it performed worse than expected", "it's not as good as everyone else thinks", and "I was disappointed in it." These clearly show a bias.


 

 It almost sounds like you are saying that it's okay to have preconceived bias as long as you don't state it out loud. IMHO, bias is unavoidable; it comes from your world-view and will assert itself subconsciously even if you are in denial of it.
  Sorry to chime in on this so late 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is very nice pairing but you have to find more SS sounding tubes...  Don't kill me, but I think D7000 sounded the best out of SS amp.


 

 I had a D5000 for a short period of time from a trade and didn't think much of it at the time out of my WA22, but right before I sent it off on the next trade I plugged it into my modest AV123 x-head SS headamp and it sounded really nice. I tried to get out of the trade at that point but had to honor it and I have had my eye out for another one ever since. I do wonder if the D7000 would give me a similar experience or even better with that little x-head.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> WA6 pictures incoming! I'm very excited.


 
   
  Are those the stock tubes? If that rectifier is the Shuguang 274B it's a terrible-sounding tube IMO/IME, at least in the WA22, it's the worst by far that I've tried. Hopefully Jack sent you the upgraded Princess 274b to roll in for comparison?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Are those the stock tubes? If that rectifier is the Shuguang 274B it's a terrible-sounding tube IMO/IME, at least in the WA22, it's the worst by far that I've tried. Hopefully Jack sent you the upgraded Princess 274b to roll in for comparison?


 


  It is the Shugang 247B. And it doesn't sound anything like what I've HEARD the Princess sounds like.
   
  CORRECTION: What the Princess (is supposed) to sound like.


----------



## Ahzari

I think the D7000s perform much better with the tube amps I have owned compared to the solid state amps I have owned (those being Nuforce amps which are really dry in my opinion).


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> It is the Shugang 247B. And it doesn't sound anything like what I've HEARD the Princess sounds like.
> 
> CORRECTION: What the Princess (is supposed) to sound like.


 

 If you only received the stock tubes I am a bit surprised, because when Andy Shaub wrote his WA22 review he was sent the upgraded tubes that Woo had listed at the time.
  Perhaps you could petition Jack for a follow-up shipment


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If you only received the stock tubes I am a bit surprised, because when Andy Shaub wrote his WA22 review he was sent the upgraded tubes that Woo had listed at the time.
> Perhaps you could petition Jack for a follow-up shipment


 

 Yes, I'll discuss with Jack over email what we can do about the situation, and see if I can get SP274B for review.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how does the ed 8 compare to the d7000 in terms of bass?
   
  i got ed 8 or ps1000 next on my list.
   
   
  also, any woo owners interested in buying my k701 or dt 990, feel free to pm me, will post them up for sale sometime this weekend.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how does the ed 8 compare to the d7000 in terms of bass?
> 
> i got ed 8 or ps1000 next on my list.
> 
> ...


 


  How much for the DT990? Condition? I bet it would be good for the WA6.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

umm its in very good shape, i'd say a 8.5/10 headbands still mint except for a small scratch. cables in perfect shape, cups are pretty new since these headphones where bought in the fall and haven't gotten too much use. i still have the box and everything
   
  its the 600 ohm version and the WA6 should power them very well. i prefer my DT 990 out of the WA6-SE vs. my WA2. these originally had a driver rattle but i sent them to beyer for service, so they are fully functional and in perfect shape right now
   
  i'm looking for 230 shipped or so, not sure how much these sell for, but i dont want to lose too much money on them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> umm its in very good shape, i'd say a 8.5/10 headbands still mint except for a small scratch. cables in perfect shape, cups are pretty new since these headphones where bought in the fall and haven't gotten too much use. i still have the box and everything
> 
> its the 600 ohm version and the WA6 should power them very well. i prefer my DT 990 out of the WA6-SE vs. my WA2. these originally had a driver rattle but i sent them to beyer for service, so they are fully functional and in perfect shape right now
> 
> i'm looking for 230 shipped or so, not sure how much these sell for, but i dont want to lose too much money on them.


 





   
  Interesting. Haven't heard a Woo/Beyer pairing before. Will try to find out more about it later today.


----------



## musicman59

Whoever likes the HD800 and want a close can should take a look at this offer. It is $300 less of what I paid from PriceJapan.
  http://www.amazon.com/Technica-Over-Ear-Headphones-Limited-ATHW3000ANV/dp/B0073PST30/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331992547&sr=8-1
  They sound great out of my WA5-LE.


----------



## Austin Morrow

First preliminary pictures of the WA6. Review should be up in 2-3 weeks. Still have a lot of listening to do and a lot of headphones to test out.


----------



## hodgjy

Nice pics!  That slab of concrete sure gets a workout! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> First preliminary pictures of the WA6. Review should be up in 2-3 weeks. Still have a lot of listening to do and a lot of headphones to test out.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Nice pics!  That slab of concrete sure gets a workout!


 


  I know, I feel bad for the concrete. Oh well, it'll make it harder and more rock solid than ever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing I've learned after looking around the perimeter for a few hours is how high quality the build is. It's absolutely phenomenal. Despite being quite heavy, the chassis and aluminum is just through the roof, and the sexy-ness...my goodness. But, we'll have to wait for the review for every detail to floweth forth.


----------



## Austin Morrow

I also made the tube picture into a 2560 x 1600 B&W wallpaper in case anyone is interested...


----------



## hodgjy

@Austin:
   
  Have you ever considering making a cheap DIY light box?  You can get some PVC tubes, some white sheets, and your light of choice.  Makes for awesome product photos.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> @Austin:
> 
> Have you ever considering making a cheap DIY light box?  You can get some PVC tubes, some white sheets, and your light of choice.  Makes for awesome product photos.


 


  Oh, I have $300 soft boxes in my room as well as $1000-2000 lenses. I just don't find shooting inside to be as 'cool' as shooting outside. For some reason, I like mixing modern gear with nature.


----------



## grokit

*Initial impressions: *The _Silent One of Legend_ was kind enough to let me in on his 596 "martian" rectifier (complete with _glenn2359_'s adapter)'s world tour 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  First of all, it's an absolutely beautiful tube in person; the pics that have been published to date don't do it justice. The old glass seems thick, and almost looks hand-blown.
   
  This won't be a full review by any means, but I will give a little background of my preferences before offering my impressions. I gravitate back and forth between vinyl, and ALAC out of a computer/DAC. I'm using the 596 in a WA22 with balanced ins and outs, so my experience could be different that those using it in the WA6/SE.
   
  Generally, I stick with pretty sold-state sounding tubes in Woo's "most euphonic" amplifier. Along those same lines, when I build a listening rig, I like to mix solid state and tubed components for balance. If I have a sold state amp for example, I like to use a tubed DAC or phono stage, or have a tube stage in between. Conversely with the WA22 I use solid state sources, no tubes except for the amp.
   
  I have tried just about every tube that I want to try in my WA22, with the glaring exceptions of GEC and Mullard. My current tube/headphone setup has been reviewed as (possibly) the "Ultimate Headphone System", and I have been sticking with the tubes used in that review, for which I have backups except for the Princess. I have some great drivers in my collection but pretty much stick with the Treasures. I have two different EML rectifiers but have been sticking with the Princess, and have two great pairs of 5998s but stick with the 7236 power tubes. My headphone cable and source is different that those used in that review, but I am quite satisfied with my setup.
   
  I also use the LCD-2, and initially what attracted me to this tube selection is that I felt it optimized both headphones without having to roll back and forth, which I was finding confusing and a bit frustrating as there are so many different combinations for this amp. Lately however, I have been using the HD 800 almost exclusively with the exception of some poorly-pressed vinyl, which I seem to have quite a bit of (common for 70's-80's pop/rock). The rev.1 really fills in that lower octave and cures the excess brightness of these albums. I have been shying away from the LCD-2 lately with digital though.
   
  Back to the 596, in my system, keeping the other tubes constant. I listened to a pretty well-done record, an intimate acoustic series called the Bridge School Concerts by Neil Young and quite a few of his friends. I really liked it with the HD 800, the 596 seems to be pretty holographic in its presentation and opened up the recording very nicely without sacrificing any detail. I didn't like it quite as much with the LCD-2, but wasn't bad at all really. I'll have to try a more "challenging" LP at some point to see if this preference changes.
   
  My initial thoughts at this point is that the 596 seemed to offer the punchiness of the Princess, combined with the holographic soundstage of the EML 5U4G, kind of the best of both worlds but offering something of its own as well that I hadn't quite put my finger on yet. I probably still haven't as this is my first listening session with it.
   
  Keeping the HD 800's on I went to the computer, where I have been listening to 194 Cowboy Junkies songs on random play lately and I am familiar with the material. Most of it is very well recorded, with fantastic range, vocals, and damn near subterranean bass so it's great for reference. The 596 surprised me once again. Frankly, the HD 800 with it turned out to be quite the sobering experience (not literally, as I don't do the St. Patrick's day thing anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). In a nutshell while it was fantastic with a few songs, I was getting quite fatigued with most of them. The highs seemed too aggressive, perhaps more extended as well and I couldn't take it anymore with these headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  After that I switched back to the LCD-2 and bingo
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! Magic, I'm telling ya. I have been at the point where I was not enthusiastic at all with the rev.1's and digital music out of this rig lately and the 596 changed that for me completely. The upper aggressiveness/extension is just the remedy for their "veil", and the soundstage is much improved with the 596's euphonic, holographic presentation. With the HD 800's the 596 didn't quite the have the low-end punch that the Princess offers (but it wasn't bad by any means in that department), and with the LCD-2 I don't notice any deficiency in this area at all. The 596 and LCD-2 rev.1 is truly a great combo, at least for me, with digital music and the rest of my setup.
   
  So I'm back to having to roll tubes for the two headphones, but at least it's only the rectifiers. And as I said I was already there anyways, as I was getting disenchanted with the LCD-2 and digital with the Princess, while the HD 800 was sounding better and better with it. After I try a different vinyl album with the 596/LCD-2, I will start the process over and roll in the two EML rectifiers (274b mesh plate and 5U4G) for comparison purposes so there is definitely more listening to do!
   
  I will also attempt an a three-way "Glenn2359" fixture photo shoot at some point; I will roll out the Treasures and put in my Tung-Sol 6F8Gs with his 6SN7 adapters. This has been posted here before but it's been awhile. I will also try a close up of the 596, just to try to capture its true essence as it's quite a beautiful vintage piece of glass.
   
  Thanks again Silent One, if you ever decide to sell this guy I may want to call dibs if no one else has yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  It does seem to be in scarce supply, and it's due to this thread so big thanks to Glenn2359 as well for suggesting it to us


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My initial thoughts at this point is that the 596 seemed to offer the punchiness of the Princess, combined with the holographic soundstage of the EML 5U4G, kind of the best of both worlds but offering something of its own as well that I hadn't quite put my finger on yet. I probably still don't as this is my first listening session with it.


 


  So this is where I sent Silent One's 596! lol your impressions matched my feelings with my WA6SE nicely.. Having the EML5U4G and the Sophia Princess on hand to compare to I think it does take some of their best elements and combines them, though very subtly. If I were to pick one rectifier it sounded most like, it would be the EML, they were quite similar to my ear testing with the D7000 and Signature Pro at the time.
   
  Thanks for the post grokit. and thanks again Silent One


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> *So this is where I sent Silent One's 596!* lol your impressions matched my feelings with my WA6SE nicely.. Having the EML5U4G and the Sophia Princess on hand to compare to I think it does take some of their best elements and combines them, though very subtly. If I were to pick one rectifier it sounded most like, it would be the EML, they were quite similar to my ear testing with the D7000 and Signature Pro at the time.
> 
> Thanks for the post grokit. and thanks again Silent One


 







 Now every time I look at a map, I'm reminded just how far away our brother is. Good thing he's got an ISP! It was a pleasure getting the Glass out to you two.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> *Initial impressions: *The _Silent One of Legend_ was kind enough to let me in on his 596 "martian" rectifier (complete with _glenn2359_'s adapter)'s world tour
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Great Prelim! I was just fixin' to have breakfast and go to bed - my most wonderful all-night session just wrapped. Your words left me wide awake! Looking forward to following your thoughts as they come down with further listening and observations. I'm also still scouring the Earth to unearth another USAF-596!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is very nice pairing but you have to find more SS sounding tubes...  Don't kill me, but I think D7000 sounded the best out of SS amp.


 
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I agree with you on this one. I've bought (and sold) the D7000 twice. But I won't be going back for thirds.


 
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I think the D7000s perform much better with the tube amps I have owned compared to the solid state amps I have owned (those being Nuforce amps which are really dry in my opinion).


 

  
  I have both Glass & SS rigs. Have enjoyed listening to others Glass & SS rigs with my D7000. I find it excels with both amps. Not only that, my Zeus cabled D7000's smashed through three stereotypes I kept hearing about the Denon's: 1) Must be paired to Solid State to sound great;  2) Won't sound good @ 25 ohms w/OTL amps;  3) Not good for Classical. 
   
  With number "3" specifically, I'm guessing no one's heard Janos Starker - Starker Plays Baker 24/96 kHz. Recorded Direct-to-Tape from the Indiana University Opera House (Ampex 2 Track Stereo 1/4 inch @ 15 ips w/no noise reduction). When heard through the D7000... stunning!


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> First preliminary pictures of the WA6. Review should be up in 2-3 weeks. Still have a lot of listening to do and a lot of headphones to test out.


 

 Beautiful photos, as usual, Austin!  Any chance I could have this one as a wallpaper?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Beautiful photos, as usual, Austin!  Any chance I could have this one as a wallpaper?


 


  Yes, let me post a high res one. 2560 x 1600?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Here are almost all the formats, in case anyone wants to use this as a wallpaper.
   
  2560 x 1600
   

   
  1920 x 1200
   

   
  1600 x 1200
   

   
  1920 x 1080


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Got 'em all. Thanks!


----------



## ckunstadt

Hey man, nice shot.
   
  If you would indulge a small amount of level adjustment and manipulation...


----------



## BIG POPPA

Hey Austin, How does it sound??????? What was the first music you listened tooo?


----------



## Silent One

This is always a fascinating and statement question for me as well...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> Hey Austin, How does it sound??????? What was the first music you listened tooo?


 


  What was the very first track you heard on your supercharged WA3?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Easy question my friend. One of my favorite reference tracks. "You asked me to" Allison Krauss on the Waylon Jennings Tribute "I've always been crazy". This is the Track I get a feel for a piece of equipment.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> Easy question my friend. One of my favorite reference tracks. "You asked me to" Allison Krauss on the Waylon Jennings Tribute "I've always been crazy". This is the Track I get a feel for a piece of equipment.


 

 For my _6 Special Edition_ (and several other pieces of kit): "Holidays" - Abraham Laboriel, Sr (1993) as reference.


----------



## Austin Morrow

I'll write a few sentences, just in minute, preliminary detail. When I first got the amp, I found it overly lush, boring, and way too dark. Didn't sound very good at all. However, things changed after an overnight burn in. Soundstage expanded both in terms of width and depth, with layering about the same. The top end seemed a tad more sparkly, but still slightly recessed with a bit of grain. The middle part of the spectrum was very warm, lush, and acoustics seem to come off as very well pronounced and full bodied, without any edginess or sibilance. Down low, the WA6 seemed weighty, decently well extended, and colored up the midrange quite a bit.

Again, not very detailed, but I still have a lot of listening to do.


----------



## Ahzari

Make sure not to run the WA6 too long without a break, this is straight out of the manual, I never did overnight burnings with this amp just based on that advise. 
   
  Do Not: "Leave the amps running unattended. To use the amps safely, please allow it to cool down for every 8 hours of continuous play time."


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Fellow member sillysally posted some very useful info recently (see below):
> 
> *** Yes Jack seems to build in a "soft start" with these amp. One thing to keep in mind is that if you turn off your Woo and don't let it cool down before restarting your Woo the "soft start" will not work.


 

 I find this bizarre.  My Super 7 soft starts everytime not matter if it's cooled down or not.  Why would the Woos not be able to do this?
   
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Make sure not to run the WA6 too long without a break, this is straight out of the manual, I never did overnight burnings with this amp just based on that advise.
> 
> Do Not: "Leave the amps running unattended. To use the amps safely, please allow it to cool down for every 8 hours of continuous play time."


 

 This seems odd as well.  Many tubes were designed for military use and run all the time.  I can't imagine the DoD or Kremlin worrying about their tubes/amps during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Sounds like lawyer jargon.


----------



## Ahzari

I don't think the SP and EML rectifiers are military grade, but either way I figure the amp itself needs some cool down time? I always follow owners manuals and its proven a pretty good idea till now...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I find this bizarre.  My Super 7 soft starts everytime not matter if it's cooled down or not.  Why would the Woos not be able to do this?
> 
> 
> This seems odd as well.  Many tubes were designed for military use and run all the time.  I can't imagine the DoD or Kremlin worrying about their tubes/amps during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Sounds like lawyer jargon.


 


  First sentence: If every mfg employed the same design, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 would they be employed? Hit sillysally up for more clarity on his findings; past experiences in this regard.
   
  Second sentence: Nothing odd about same tubes, different applications, in my view. I'd suggest that WooAudio is concerned about fire hazards. But useful jargon nonetheless.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Make sure not to run the WA6 too long without a break, this is straight out of the manual, I never did overnight burnings with this amp just based on that advise.
> 
> Do Not: "Leave the amps running unattended. To use the amps safely, please allow it to cool down for every 8 hours of continuous play time."


 


  My personal preference would be to advise no more than four consecutive hours for the amp for more efficient break-in during the early stages. Why bother with such a regiment? More frequent warming and cooling of internal parts will allow for better conditioning when the amp is new. But this is my view...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I'll write a few sentences, just in minute, preliminary detail. When I first got the amp, I found it overly lush, boring, and way too dark. Didn't sound very good at all. However, things changed after an overnight burn in. Soundstage expanded both in terms of width and depth, with layering about the same. The top end seemed a tad more sparkly, but still slightly recessed with a bit of grain. The middle part of the spectrum was very warm, lush, and acoustics seem to come off as very well pronounced and full bodied, without any edginess or sibilance. Down low, the WA6 seemed weighty, decently well extended, and colored up the midrange quite a bit.
> Again, not very detailed, but I still have a lot of listening to do.


 


  In my experience, the Woo was pedestrian through 125 hours. Just sat there like any other car stuck in L.A. traffic_. But once it started to emerge... _


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My personal preference would be to advise no more than four consecutive hours for the amp for more efficient break-in during the early stages. Why bother with such a regiment? More frequent warming and cooling of internal parts will allow for better conditioning when the amp is new. But this is my view...


 


  +1


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

I tried to follow that instruction when I got my WA2 late last year. In practice, it ends up staying on for about the same amount of time as my PC, but I do turn it off when I'm not in the house (PC stays on). I have USB powered fan sitting on top of the WA2 angled down to blow air on the tubes. It's amazing the temperature difference you get with forced air flow vs convection only. About 85 degrees Celsius at the envelope vs the 120 or so I was getting before (measure on Power Tubes).
   
  Googling for cooling of Vacuum tubes turned up various DIY folks who claimed longer life or lower distortion with lower temperature. /Shrug. In any case, I don't like being blasted with heat while on my PC.
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I find this bizarre.  My Super 7 soft starts everytime not matter if it's cooled down or not.  Why would the Woos not be able to do this?
> 
> 
> This seems odd as well.  Many tubes were designed for military use and run all the time.  I can't imagine the DoD or Kremlin worrying about their tubes/amps during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Sounds like lawyer jargon.


----------



## hodgjy

Tubes can take the heat, but capacitors, and transformers for that matter, aren't so forgiving.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Question. I noticed that the biggest source of case temperature was the tubes and heat radiating off them in to the surrounding metal work (in particular the transfomer housing). Once I started stirring up air flow, the case temp went down by a chunk too. I can't measure the temperature on the transformer without popping the top off (not sure if I should). Is this reduced case temperature preventing additional heat radiating back in to other parts? That would be my suspicion but I can't confirm without lifting the lids.

 I was planning on getting another quiet fan and blasting air in to the vents on the underside of the WA2. (I think I have a fan fetish, help)
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tubes can take the heat, but capacitors, and transformers for that matter, aren't so forgiving.


----------



## hodgjy

I wouldn't worry too much about actively cooling a tube amp.  They are designed to take the heat.  Plus, by design, tubes are microphonic.  If you blast air on the tubes, they will pick up some of that noise and will send them to your headphones.  It won't be much, but it's there.  Tubes are noisy enough as it is, and I don't see any point in making them noisier than they have to be.


----------



## hodgjy

P.S.  I should say that tube amps are designed to take normal heat during normal use.  Excessive heat or prolonged use can limit the life of caps and trannies.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about actively cooling a tube amp.  They are designed to take the heat.  Plus, by design, tubes are microphonic.  If you blast air on the tubes, they will pick up some of that noise and will send them to your headphones.  It won't be much, but it's there.  Tubes are noisy enough as it is, and I don't see any point in making them noisier than they have to be.


 


  x2, as long as you have enough of clearance op top of the amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

At times I leave my amps on for 14-18 hours. Usually on weekends. Sometimes they're on as short as 2 minutes when I've changed my mind or I am interrupted to do something else. I spoke to an amp designer once (PrimaLuna) and asked him how long after turning his amp off should I wait before turning it on again and he said 2 minutes. Others say otherwise. Go figure. I just don't think about it. And the on/off 2-minute thing rarely happens.


----------



## davidio

Okay,
  I now have well over 200 hours on my Woo 6 modified with Mundorf silver oils.  The oils were used for everything that the Blackgates were used for, on the original modified versions of Woo 6... bypass, decoupling, etc.  From the beginning, the sound of the Woo 6 was noticeably better in every way:  Detail, low end, presence.  The midrange is so good that everything is balanced, all the the time.  As of now...well...it is something of a dream acheived for me....it is that good.  To clarify, I use Senn 650's to listen and I listen to mostly pop and rock. 
   
  The Mundorfs sound fantastic.  There is a liquidity to the sound that plays well with the sound signature of the Woo 6.  I've burnt in now for about 215 hours or so, so I'm sure the sound will continue to improve, but I'd be happy with it either way...it sounds incredible.  The sound does remind me very much of the Vcap sound signature, with the addition of liquidity...I can't tell if it is the caps or the tubes giving off the vibe, but I suspect it is a combination.  Out of the box, I was disappointed in the Woo 6.  I was used to the slam and fullness of the imod/vcap dock/Stepdance.  The Woo lacked presence...or guts.  Everything was too subdued.  Now, running the imod/vcap dock into the Woo 6, it is a huge improvement over the Stepdance (as it should be).  The detail and slam are present (Much more detail than I had with Stepdance), along with the soft glow and flowing quality of tube sound.  The low end is balanced but never shy.  Just like the guys with the early modded Woo's said, a Woo tube amp really is the best of both worlds when modified:  Tubey without taking anything away from the presence of solid state.  It sounds so great that I daydream of it while I'm at work.  So far, knock on wood, there doesn't seem to be any issue with heat effecting the caps.  In fact, feeling the top when it has been on for a while, the temp doesn't seem to be higher than merely warm.  I highly recommend this upgrade.  One word: the guy who did this for me has been doing work like this for twenty years, and he said it was hard to get the caps in...a very tight squeeze.  Just FYI.  He was expecting the whole thing to be a one hour job, but it took him over two.
   
  Now as to the tubes...Naturally, the tube are what really show (or DON'T show) the best qualities of the Mundorf Silver oil upgrade....Had the best luck so far with the combo of Sophia Princess rectifier with Brimar CV1988 type of 6SN7 drivers (Note:  You must buy a converter to get 6SN7 to fit).  At first, wanting the upfront quality and fullness of each instrument, I liked the RCA 6FD7.  For the same reason, the 1957 Mullard Holland GZ34 metal base rectifier was good.  But as the sound of the caps improved, I noticed that there was so much "push" in the modified sound of the Woo 6 that it was getting congested during busy passages...there would be instants of distortion, although few and far between...and the overall darkness and up-frontness, although these are qualities I normally like, drove me to nausea...it was that sharp of a coloring in the sound, and it struck me as unnatural.  Short answer...the problem was not the caps but the tubes.  The story:  Thinking the problem was in the pairing, I tried Princess with 6FD7 and Mullard Holland with 6SN7.  I tried the rectifiers individually also with the 6EW7s.  I discovered that Princess will never distort unless the original recording is distorted, and the low end and high end were as good as the GZ34.  Also, the Princess has the most distinction in staging...You can hear for instance if a tamborine is being played distant right side, or closer right side.  In addition, you can tell if the tamborine is being played below the microphone, above, or centered...and every instrument and voice is that way.  The GZ34 can't do that, to nearly as great of an extent...not with this set -up, anyway.  Does the Princess sound distant for pop/rock?  No...I discovered that, on recordings that were intended to sound up-close, it was true to the recording.  As for drivers...even with the Princess, the 6FD7s still didn't sound right...the up-frontness clipped or phased-out any of the fun staging...so no tamborine playing distant/low/right...and although I love thickness, the sound was too much so...and no fun anymore.  6EW7 didn't clip or color much, but all the balls were zapped from the music:  the drums may as well have been played with brushes instead of sticks.  So if adding too much taint to the original sound bothers you, go for the Princess with this mod, and use your play time trying out 6SN7s... then you will be avoided over-coloration and distortion.  Try looking at the 6SN7 threads, to save time and find good brands...some of them kinda stink.  Also, word of note:  The casing won't get as hot using the converters with 6SN7s...the tube is lifted up above it.  Since overheat is bad for Mundorf Silver Oils, this is worth noting.  As a lover of the V-cap dock, I can tell you the Mundorf silver oils sound spectacular as Woo 6 modifiers...guts, yes, presence...hell, yes.  Detail...Mmmm.  More than I've ever heard before...but they don't bug me.  The sound is very natural.  I was worried that I wouldn't be able to achieve greatness without blackgates...NNNGGGG!!  Wrong answer.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tubes can take the heat, but capacitors, and transformers for that matter, aren't so forgiving.


 

 My WA22 barely gets warm, tubes transformers etc. Definitely not a space heater.

  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> At times I leave my amps on for 14-18 hours. Usually on weekends. Sometimes they're on as short as 2 minutes when I've changed my mind or I am interrupted to do something else. I spoke to an amp designer once (PrimaLuna) and asked him how long after turning his amp off should I wait before turning it on again and he said 2 minutes. Others say otherwise. Go figure. I just don't think about it. And the on/off 2-minute thing rarely happens.


 

 I try to follow protocol when rolling etc. and let it cool for at least a half an hour between power ups, but I don't worry about it too much if I leave it on for too long. Sometimes I turn it on and let it warm up for a while before listening but not always. Occasionally it gets left on overnight, but not with music flowing through it. I don't worry about it because as I said it runs relatively cool.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My WA22 barely gets warm, tubes transformers etc. Definitely not a space heater.


 


  Put in a GZ34, it will get much warmer than 5U4G or 274B rectifiers.


----------



## Silent One

My _WooAudio 6 Special Edition_ - fitted & kitted with 6SN7 tubes - ran so cool I had to check incoming voltage!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





davidio said:


> Okay,
> I now have well over 200 hours on my Woo 6 modified with Mundorf silver oils.  The oils were used for everything that the Blackgates were used for, on the original modified versions of Woo 6... bypass, decoupling, etc.  From the beginning, the sound of the Woo 6 was noticeably better in every way:  Detail, low end, presence.  The midrange is so good that everything is balanced, all the the time.  As of now...well...it is something of a dream acheived for me....it is that good.  To clarify, I use Senn 650's to listen and I listen to mostly pop and rock.
> 
> The Mundorfs sound fantastic.  There is a liquidity to the sound that plays well with the sound signature of the Woo 6.  I've burnt in now for about 215 hours or so, so I'm sure the sound will continue to improve, but I'd be happy with it either way...it sounds incredible.  The sound does remind me very much of the Vcap sound signature, with the addition of liquidity...I can't tell if it is the caps or the tubes giving off the vibe, but I suspect it is a combination.  Out of the box, I was disappointed in the Woo 6.  I was used to the slam and fullness of the imod/vcap dock/Stepdance.  The Woo lacked presence...or guts.  Everything was too subdued.  Now, running the imod/vcap dock into the Woo 6, it is a huge improvement over the Stepdance (as it should be).  The detail and slam are present (Much more detail than I had with Stepdance), along with the soft glow and flowing quality of tube sound.  The low end is balanced but never shy.  Just like the guys with the early modded Woo's said, a Woo tube amp really is the best of both worlds when modified:  Tubey without taking anything away from the presence of solid state.  It sounds so great that I daydream of it while I'm at work.  So far, knock on wood, there doesn't seem to be any issue with heat effecting the caps.  In fact, feeling the top when it has been on for a while, the temp doesn't seem to be higher than merely warm.  I highly recommend this upgrade.  One word: the guy who did this for me has been doing work like this for twenty years, and he said it was hard to get the caps in...a very tight squeeze.  Just FYI.  He was expecting the whole thing to be a one hour job, but it took him over two.
> ...


 


  This post was at once informative and enjoyable. Not to mention the tea... what an afternoon!


----------



## Austin Morrow

I had to. Here's a quick slideshow I put together for the WA6 using the same pictures a couple threads back. I think I'm going to start doing this often just for fun.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

I'll try to keep microphonics in mind. So far the only microphonics I've ever heard is that thermal related 'tink' sound before the temps have stabilised in both convection and fan assisted. I'm running the stock tubes, but I've got some upgrade 'woo tubes' on the way and yet more fans, I'm curious to see how far I can get away with this. I'm inclined to think that fan noise will probably prove more annoying. (I've played with large desktop fans, the temp difference is minimal after a certain point where it appears you're removing waste heat from the envelope as fast as it is arriving as radiation, at this point, gains in temperature reduction appear minimal)

 That'a great youtube slideshow, it even has stats and a price. If only people could throw their wallets at their screens...
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about actively cooling a tube amp.  They are designed to take the heat.  Plus, by design, tubes are microphonic.  If you blast air on the tubes, they will pick up some of that noise and will send them to your headphones.  It won't be much, but it's there.  Tubes are noisy enough as it is, and I don't see any point in making them noisier than they have to be.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





davidio said:


> Okay,
> I now have well over 200 hours on my Woo 6 modified with Mundorf silver oils.  The oils were used for everything that the Blackgates were used for, on the original modified versions of Woo 6... bypass, decoupling, etc.  From the beginning, the sound of the Woo 6 was noticeably better in every way:  Detail, low end, presence.  The midrange is so good that everything is balanced, all the the time.  As of now...well...it is something of a dream acheived for me....it is that good.  To clarify, I use Senn 650's to listen and I listen to mostly pop and rock.
> 
> The Mundorfs sound fantastic.  There is a liquidity to the sound that plays well with the sound signature of the Woo 6.  I've burnt in now for about 215 hours or so, so I'm sure the sound will continue to improve, but I'd be happy with it either way...it sounds incredible.  The sound does remind me very much of the Vcap sound signature, with the addition of liquidity...I can't tell if it is the caps or the tubes giving off the vibe, but I suspect it is a combination.  Out of the box, I was disappointed in the Woo 6.  I was used to the slam and fullness of the imod/vcap dock/Stepdance.  The Woo lacked presence...or guts.  Everything was too subdued.  Now, running the imod/vcap dock into the Woo 6, it is a huge improvement over the Stepdance (as it should be).  The detail and slam are present (Much more detail than I had with Stepdance), along with the soft glow and flowing quality of tube sound.  The low end is balanced but never shy.  Just like the guys with the early modded Woo's said, a Woo tube amp really is the best of both worlds when modified:  Tubey without taking anything away from the presence of solid state.  It sounds so great that I daydream of it while I'm at work.  So far, knock on wood, there doesn't seem to be any issue with heat effecting the caps.  In fact, feeling the top when it has been on for a while, the temp doesn't seem to be higher than merely warm.  I highly recommend this upgrade.  One word: the guy who did this for me has been doing work like this for twenty years, and he said it was hard to get the caps in...a very tight squeeze.  Just FYI.  He was expecting the whole thing to be a one hour job, but it took him over two.
> ...


 

 A fantastic and informative post Davidio, I was already inclined to try rolling out the coupling caps in my Woo5 with Mundorf Silver in Oil (I prefer the Mundorf sound over teflon caps in other gear I have), but your post has helped me make up my mind!
   
  I agree with your asessment about the liquidity of the Mundorfs, they are great caps. My dealer raves about them and uses them in speaker crossovers all the time. they also got some great feedback in JonL's capacitor round-ups.


----------



## davidio

Can somebody help me with a question?
  I'm thinking about taking the (huge) plunge and buying a pair of vintage Mullard CV181s.  I understand that they fit into the 6SN7 pin configuration, but that they run hotter then 6SN7 and use more power.  Does anyone know if the Woo 6 (circa 2012) can handle the Mullard ECC32/CV181?  Can anyone atest to whether or not they seem worthy of a $500 price tag per pair?


----------



## Draygonn

why not step up to a 6SE instead?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





davidio said:


> Can somebody help me with a question?
> I'm thinking about taking the (huge) plunge and buying a pair of vintage Mullard CV181s.  I understand that they fit into the 6SN7 pin configuration, but that they run hotter then 6SN7 and use more power.  Does anyone know if the Woo 6 (circa 2012) can handle the Mullard ECC32/CV181?  Can anyone atest to whether or not they seem worthy of a $500 price tag per pair?


 


  I wouldn't try it with a 5U4G (3.0A) in the amp at the very least, it would likely overtax the power transformer.  With the 274B (2.0A) or a 5AR4 (1.9A) you might be okay, but I'd clear it with Jack first.


----------



## SanJoseCanJunkie

I have a question about the Woo upgrade options - it used to be that there were a lot more options for the "cheaper" amps (WA3, WA6, WA6SE, WA2, WA22), like teflon tube sockets, and other component upgrades (blackgate capacitors, etc.), but now they are not longer listed on the website.  Does Jack still do these, and if so, do you have to contact him directly now for prices?
   
  It just seems a little strange that these aren't listed as default options, as I know the teflon tube sockets were a popular upgrade.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Admittedly I wondered this too. I dithered for so long on woo amps, on and off for years...but you're right...So what changed?
   
  I think Woo Audio grew as a business, and perhaps keeping up with demand meant they couldn't nurse people's upgrade fetishes on most items. I seem to recall they didn't always have dealers, now they do and it's great. I got my WA2 from Addicted to Audio in Australia and last year. When Aussies caught wind of it Woo in Australia, the excitement seemed real, I was , myself, scratching my head wondering what they did to pull that off. Apparently they and others managed to become dealers for Woo.
   
  The cheaper amps as you refer to them are probably their bread and butter items, I don't see things like the WA5 variants etc as big sellers, Costs aside, these things look like behemoths that impose themselves on your living space. They have the aesthetic subtlety of a brick, and a quick google on the tubes used would tell people buying one of these would entail some pretty serious long term costs. Those 300Bs aren't cheap, and it isn't a choice between cheap tubes and 'better' ones. If after all that, you can still justify paying for one (don't get me wrong, I've spent that much on PC rigs) then you have options to throw on if you wish.
   
  Anyway, just my guess.
  Quote: 





sanjosecanjunkie said:


> I have a question about the Woo upgrade options - it used to be that there were a lot more options for the "cheaper" amps (WA3, WA6, WA6SE, WA2, WA22), like teflon tube sockets, and other component upgrades (blackgate capacitors, etc.), but now they are not longer listed on the website.  Does Jack still do these, and if so, do you have to contact him directly now for prices?
> 
> It just seems a little strange that these aren't listed as default options, as I know the teflon tube sockets were a popular upgrade.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Admittedly I wondered this too. I dithered for so long on woo amps, on and off for years...but you're right...So what changed?
> 
> I think Woo Audio grew as a business, and perhaps keeping up with demand meant they couldn't nurse people's upgrade fetishes on most items. I seem to recall they didn't always have dealers, now they do and it's great. I got my WA2 from Addicted to Audio in Australia and last year. When Aussies caught wind of it Woo in Australia, the excitement seemed real, I was , myself, scratching my head wondering what they did to pull that off. Apparently they and others managed to become dealers for Woo.
> 
> ...


 


 Have you listened to a WA5 before?
  They might be big, bulkey, brick looking (as you said) and the 300B tubes expensive plus you need two of each kinf of tubes (rectifier, driver and power) but the sound justifies everything. The WA5 IMO blows away any other Woo amplifier with the exeption of the $10,000 monoblock. I even like it better than the WES with the SR009.
  When I was buying my amp I tried every single Woo and also I tried the Zana, Pinnacle and Mannley 300B. The WA5-LE suited my taste the best.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Have you listened to a WA5 before?
> They might be big, bulkey, brick looking (as you said) and the 300B tubes expensive plus you need two of each kinf of tubes (rectifier, driver and power) *but the sound justifies everything*. The WA5 IMO blows away any other Woo amplifier with the exeption of the $10,000 monoblock. I even like it better than the WES with the SR009.
> When I was buying my amp I tried every single Woo and also I tried the Zana, Pinnacle and Mannley 300B. The WA5-LE suited my taste the best.


 
   
  Couldn't agree more!
   
  IMO even a budget tube compliment such as the supplied Shugang 274B, some JJ300B and a pair of modest NOS Russian 1578 the Woo5 sounds superb. I really learnt what the K1000 could do once Id hooked them up to this beasty. I wish Id had the chance to audition as you did, but living in England meant I went with the opinions here at head-fi when purchasing in a mainly North American head-amp market.
   
  The 300B may be an expensive tube due to its popularity in the speaker arena but the positive spin on that is plentiful new production varieties, on-line reviews and opinions and 1 year warranties.
   
  I just spent $1200 on a pair of Takatsuki 300B's these are new production and although still burning in sound great, the Woo5 keeps pace with each and every upgrade you throw at it.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Here are almost all the formats, in case anyone wants to use this as a wallpaper.
> 
> 2560 x 1600


 
   
  Thanks, Austin!  Went for the huge one.  I want to check it out on the new iPad and see that retina display in its full glory


----------



## Ahzari

Question:
   
  If I want to connect a record player without a phono preamp to my woo will I have to get a separate phono preamp before connecting to my WA6SE? I don't know much about turntables, but apparently you can't just connect them to an amp, you need a phono stage?
   
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## hodgjy

Yes, you will need a phono stage.  The voltage coming out of the turntable is too low and it also needs RIAA equalization to sound true.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Question:
> 
> If I want to connect a record player without a phono preamp to my woo will I have to get a separate phono preamp before connecting to my WA6SE? I don't know much about turntables, but apparently you can't just connect them to an amp, you need a phono stage?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


----------



## Ahzari

thanks for the information, now time to start looking haha..


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> thanks for the information, now time to start looking haha..


 


  Try look for a vintage Marantz receiver and use the tape loop out to Woo.  They are quite good on the phono stage.


----------



## hodgjy

X2.  Also, the Bellari phono stage is pretty nice for the price, and it does allow you to tube roll as well to fine tune your sound.
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Try look for a vintage Marantz receiver and use the tape loop out to Woo.  They are quite good on the phono stage.


----------



## jc9394

Howdy my fellow Woo owners, I have been busy playing with the new iPad and tweaking the MKII upgrade.  
   
  One thing I noticed this afternoon when I'm listening to Patricia Barber and Diana Krall, their voice is so live and human sounding after the MKII upgrade.  The HD800 just sings out of the WA22 with my flavor set of tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Howdy my fellow Woo owners, I have been busy playing with the new iPad and tweaking the MKII upgrade.
> 
> One thing I noticed this afternoon when I'm listening to Patricia Barber and Diana Krall, their voice is so live and human sounding after the MKII upgrade.  The HD800 just sings out of the WA22 with my flavor set of tubes.


 







 Although I'm rollin' Sarah Vaughn tonight, it seems these two female vocals have you enchanted all the same... great to hear, jc9394! The MKII upgrade was well worth the wait!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> thanks for the information, now time to start looking haha..


 

 I'll be following your Woo/TT journey with interest...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'll be following your Woo/TT journey with interest...


----------



## Ahzari

Has anyone tried the psvane tubes on their WA6SE?


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Can't say that I've heard a WA5 Variant, the WA2 is my first (currently only) Valve amp, Purchased unheard on a pre-order when I learnt there was a Aussie Distributer (got in on the first shipment yay). Maybe I need to pay a visit the distibuter's street address (Addicted to Audio Melbourne) and may be arrange a listen someday. It doesn't seem to get a lot of talking about in this thread, could be a combination of those various factors (cost, size, questionable spouse acceptance factor).
   
  May I ask few questions of you two.
 What sort of lifespan are you getting out of you tubes? I'm not a 'sit down listening session' person. So I rack up a lot of hours, with gaming, music and all of that.
  Did you have to arrange a special space for it. Side by side seems prohibitive, over and under on a shelf? (I used to run multi monitors...now I have too much crap on my desk for that)
   
  I had a bit more of squiz to see the costs of various suitable tubes, ranging from the What lol to beard stroking reasonable. But I suppose it always comes back to lifespan. I'm not even sure how I'll fair with the WA2, (Just swapped in some Woo Supplied tubes, But I'll go back to stock to try run those in to the dirt).
  Quote:.  





musicman59 said:


> Have you listened to a WA5 before?
> They might be big, bulkey, brick looking (as you said) and the 300B tubes expensive plus you need two of each kinf of tubes (rectifier, driver and power) but the sound justifies everything. The WA5 IMO blows away any other Woo amplifier with the exeption of the $10,000 monoblock. I even like it better than the WES with the SR009.
> When I was buying my amp I tried every single Woo and also I tried the Zana, Pinnacle and Mannley 300B. The WA5-LE suited my taste the best.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> May I ask few questions of you two.
> What sort of lifespan are you getting out of you tubes? I'm not a 'sit down listening session' person. So I rack up a lot of hours, with gaming, music and all of that.
> Did you have to arrange a special space for it. Side by side seems prohibitive, over and under on a shelf? (I used to run multi monitors...now I have too much crap on my desk for that)


 

  Not 100% sure if I was one of those two the question was directed to, but would like to share my experience of tube lifetimes. 
   
  Had 2 TSRP 6SN7 fail on me after 3000 hours of use, web implies 10,000 hours use from NOS and these were bought NOS. It was very strange failure - 3 heaters out of 4 went at once, a sad and expensive day - which is why I'm trying new production tubes out recently.
   
  I had a Sophia "mesh" Princess 274B rectifier go gassy after 11 months. The tube had a funky purple gas in it when powered from cold, I pulled it as the gas allowed the electrodes to arc. Still have it on my desk as a show piece, scorched plates n all 
   
  Touch wood I've not had a 300B go on me whilst I've had the Woo5, JJ's were in use for a year before going back in their box as a backup.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Can't say that I've heard a WA5 Variant, the WA2 is my first (currently only) Valve amp, Purchased unheard on a pre-order when I learnt there was a Aussie Distributer (got in on the first shipment yay). Maybe I need to pay a visit the distibuter's street address (Addicted to Audio Melbourne) and may be arrange a listen someday. It doesn't seem to get a lot of talking about in this thread, could be a combination of those various factors (cost, size, questionable spouse acceptance factor).
> 
> May I ask few questions of you two.
> What sort of lifespan are you getting out of you tubes? I'm not a 'sit down listening session' person. So I rack up a lot of hours, with gaming, music and all of that.
> ...


 


 I have had my WA5-LE for 20 months and I have not had any tube issues. I roll driver tubes often to change the sound and rectifiers less often but the EML 300B Mesh have been there since new and still going storng with no issues (knock on wood). I am using the 596 rectifiers which I love and those are $40 to $80 for the pair so not much investment there. You can get very nice NOS 6SN7 for great prices too. I got a pair of RCA 6F8G round plates/black glass for cheap. Other than the 300B cost I would not woory about that.
   
  Regarding shelf space. I have mine side by side at the top of my audio rack so it can fit in a normal shelf designed for a standard 19" wide audio component with room to spare.
  Here are some pictures of mine when I just got it. http://www.head-fi.org/t/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have had my WA5-LE for 20 months and I have not had any tube issues. I roll driver tubes often to change the sound and rectifiers less often but the EML 300B Mesh have been there since new and still going storng with no issues (knock on wood). I am using the 596 rectifiers which I love and those are $40 to $80 for the pair so not much investment there. You can get very nice NOS 6SN7 for great prices too. I got a pair of RCA 6F8G round plates/black glass for cheap. Other than the 300B cost I would not woory about that.
> 
> Regarding shelf space. I have mine side by side at the top of my audio rack so it can fit in a normal shelf designed for a standard 19" wide audio component with room to spare.
> Here are some pictures of mine when I just got it. http://www.head-fi.org/t/506402/my-new-woo-audio-wa5-le-the-black-beauty


 


  Any new sources for 1956-57 USAF-596 Rec's?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Any new sources for 1956-57 USAF-596 Rec's?


 

 on't know. Since I have my pair and backup I have not look form them anymore.


----------



## Sid-Fi

So it's been a month since I ordered my WA22. I emailed Jack to ask for an update and he replied that my WA22 would ship no later than the week of April 2 even though it's already been a month. This would push the lead time out to 6 weeks compared to the quoted 3 weeks.
   
  This is definitely a little frustrating. I feel like I am dealing with Audio-gd all over again, which is not what I expected when jumping to the $2,000 mark. Is this pretty unusual from Woo Audio?
   
  Dave


----------



## jc9394

For sure it is not like Audio-GD experience. I waited over 8 weeks for my WA6 before, these are hand build and probably they are backlogged due to the release of new DAC and transport.


----------



## Silent One

No, Sid-Fi. WooAudio is usually pretty good regarding communication. These amps are hand-crafted and like many small boutiques, suppliers and demand matter. I ordered my beloved amp 2 May expecting a four week delivery. Received it on 9 July, due in part to strong demand, parts and WA having to close down to attend an out-of-town trade show. 
   
  Though anxious, I was patient - they were upfront in their communications with me. Generally, people won't mind waiting if they're kept up-to-date. Hope any or all of this helps.


----------



## hodgjy

It's been my experience, and also some other members here, that Woo is very good at communicating _when they want to communicate _with you.  Jack's been know to ignore emails, which can be very frustrating.  Also, build times are only estimates; they can, and do, change.  As long as they are up front and let you know about changes to the estimate, then that's ok.  The problem is they don't send out emails about changes to estimates.  We have to email them and hope we actually get a response.
  
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> So it's been a month since I ordered my WA22. I emailed Jack to ask for an update and he replied that my WA22 would ship no later than the week of April 2 even though it's already been a month. This would push the lead time out to 6 weeks compared to the quoted 3 weeks.
> 
> This is definitely a little frustrating. I feel like I am dealing with Audio-gd all over again, which is not what I expected when jumping to the $2,000 mark. Is this pretty unusual from Woo Audio?
> 
> Dave


----------



## Sid-Fi

I think you hit the nail on the head at least in my case. If the lead time is suggested at 3 weeks upon purchase, I would expect a proactive communication letting me know it might be double that. At least that is what I would expect for "excellent customer service". Instead, a month goes by without any communication at all and I have to inquire about it. Then I am casually told it might be significantly later with a one sentence email. This just isn't the experience I expected based on the rave reviews everywhere of their service. It also makes me wonder if the 3 weeks was ever a realistic expectation at all or just extra bait incentive to get orders in. This might not be the case, but it the thought crossed my mind at least.
   
  I'm not going to comment on this anymore as I don't want to drag this on and be negative. I'm sure I'll be floored with the WA22 and enthusiastically posting about for a long time to come. However, I think it is significant enough that others should be aware to take the 3 weeks with a grain of salt if timing is important to them.

  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's been my experience, and also some other members here, that Woo is very good at communicating _when they want to communicate _with you.  Jack's been know to ignore emails, which can be very frustrating.  Also, build times are only estimates; they can, and do, change.  As long as they are up front and let you know about changes to the estimate, then that's ok.  The problem is they don't send out emails about changes to estimates.  We have to email them and hope we actually get a response.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> So it's been a month since I ordered my WA22. I emailed Jack to ask for an update and he replied that my WA22 would ship no later than the week of April 2 even though it's already been a month. This would push the lead time out to 6 weeks compared to the quoted 3 weeks.
> 
> This is definitely a little frustrating. I feel like I am dealing with Audio-gd all over again, which is not what I expected when jumping to the $2,000 mark. Is this pretty unusual from Woo Audio?
> 
> Dave


 

 This isn't too unusual, I was quoted about 4 weeks took 6-7 (for my WA6SE), hopefully it'll be worth the wait


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's been my experience, and also some other members here, that Woo is very good at communicating _when they want to communicate _with you.  Jack's been know to ignore emails, which can be very frustrating.  Also, build times are only estimates; they can, and do, change.  As long as they are up front and let you know about changes to the estimate, then that's ok.  The problem is they don't send out emails about changes to estimates.  We have to email them and hope we actually get a response.


 

 yea +1 I've had several ignored e-mails (which was frustrating at the time) it almost seems like Jack is running a one man show out there cause I think he's the one replying to all the emails and building all the amps..


----------



## hodgjy

I doubt that they give intentionally bad estimates. Part availabilities change, quality control issues pop up, people get sick, etc. As on example, they hand wind their own transformers, which has to be extremely time consuming. If that person needs a sick day (it is flu season), you can see how things can fall behind. I have no problem with changing estimates. I just wish we were told when changes are made.

You will be floored with your amp. I was with mine, and the delay was worth it.



sid-fi said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head at least in my case. If the lead time is suggested at 3 weeks upon purchase, I would expect a proactive communication letting me know it might be double that. At least that is what I would expect for "excellent customer service". Instead, a month goes by without any communication at all and I have to inquire about it. Then I am casually told it might be significantly later with a one sentence email. This just isn't the experience I expected based on the rave reviews everywhere of their service. It also makes me wonder if the 3 weeks was ever a realistic expectation at all or just extra bait incentive to get orders in. This might not be the case, but it the thought crossed my mind at least.
> 
> I'm not going to comment on this anymore as I don't want to drag this on and be negative. I'm sure I'll be floored with the WA22 and enthusiastically posting about for a long time to come. However, I think it is significant enough that others should be aware to take the 3 weeks with a grain of salt if timing is important to them.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> yea +1 I've had several ignored e-mails (which was frustrating at the time) it almost seems like Jack is running a one man show out there cause I think he's the one replying to all the emails and building all the amps..


 

 +2
  I've had one or more unanswered emails from Woo as well, they're usually very good and respond quickly most of the time. Sometimes a little nudge is needed to get an answer. Agree its likely the smaller business thing.


----------



## Silent One

So... how does a small operation best allocate its resources? Each time Jack receives a flurry of emails - a few specific but most general in nature - you are pulling him and his staff away from completing my Black WA5 Tri-Amp build. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ok, a little latitude on the day dreaming, please... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you get the point. 
   
  I need not be in Queens looking at incoming inquiries to guess that majority of those answers can be found in either the FAQs or one of the forums on HF. Admittedly, many (very) will be "Status updates." Perhaps, they can figure out a better way to handle this angle of it. I've personally received replies from Jack via Twitter & Email @ Noon/Midnight, 3pm/3am, /6pm/6am and 9am/9pm. You cannot tell me this cat ain't burnin' up candles.
   
  It'd be too easy to suggest they higher someone just to answer email inquiries; invest in automated Customer Service Software for email inquiries. If it were your money, how would you best allocate your resources? Please keep in mind, I am not ranting, but rather having a civil exchange... with a delicate green tea no less, while waiting for some more NCAA hoops!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Does anybody have the WA5 Maxed out and the HD800? I'm thinking that will be my final setup in a  year or so.


----------



## hodgjy

Great thinking/talking point!

It's a tough call. You want to keep prices down while keeping customers happy. The fact is that Woo is expanding their product line and has even established dealer networks overseas. So, production has gone up, but prices have not gone down. According to simple business models, this means there is liquid capital to reinvest into the business. They could hire one person for customer service to relieve Jack from doing almost everything.

Of course, no one here knows anything of the inner workings of Woo, so take all of our opinions with a grain of salt!


----------



## Sid-Fi

No, but I have heard an Eddie Current Balancing Act with EML 300B tubes and HD 800. It was the best audio experience I have had so far. In particular, it had incredible dynamics and impact and was very moving. It felt like the percussion instruments were in the room with you and impacting you physically instead of just through your ears. I was very impressed with it. It was also very transparent, had precise imaging, and very good detail. All of the impressions I have read on the WA5 seem very similar to how I would describe what I heard with the BA, so I would think the WA5 would provide a lot of the same benefits.
  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Does anybody have the WA5 Maxed out and the HD800? I'm thinking that will be my final setup in a  year or so.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Great thinking/talking point!
> It's a tough call. You want to keep prices down while keeping customers happy. The fact is that Woo is expanding their product line and has even established dealer networks overseas. So, production has gone up, but prices have not gone down. According to simple business models, this means there is liquid capital to reinvest into the business. They could hire one person for customer service to relieve Jack from doing almost everything.
> Of course, no one here knows anything of the inner workings of Woo, so take all of our opinions with a grain of salt!


 


  Finance 101 - My Prof was fond of telling the class _"Either you eat well, or sleep well, but you cannot do both." _In my view, having worked in Home Audio (retail); Car Audio (manufacturing), WooAudio could very well be proceeding with caution. Consumer Electronics in general is a fickle beast - the economy is its playmate. Sometimes, the play is fun and entertaining... _good times! _Periodically, the play turns rough with many in the industry getting hurt... _badly!_
   
  Certainly, popularity and growth have to be dealt with, all while trying to get those Black WA5's out the door to the Silent One's of the audio world.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Silent One, was your major in finance? I majored in finance and am finishing up an MBA with an emphasis in finance as well. I'm a little too burned out from breaking down business case studies for the last two years to get into here :O.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Finance 101 - My Prof was fond of telling the class _"Either you eat well, or sleep well, but you cannot do both." _In my view, having worked in Home Audio (retail); Car Audio (manufacturing), WooAudio could very well be proceeding with caution. Consumer Electronics in general is a fickle beast - the economy is its playmate. Sometimes, the play is fun and entertaining... _good times! _Periodically, the play turns rough with many in the industry getting hurt... _badly!_
> 
> Certainly, popularity and growth have to be dealt with, all while trying to get those Black WA5's out the door to the Silent One's of the audio world.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'm wondering how many Woo owners are using a computer as source. If so, what sdpif converters are you using and how do you like it?
   
  I'm using an Audiophilleo2 with an Aqvox low-noise power supply, and have been really pleased with it. It has made my listening sessions extremely more enjoyable and has brought my laptop and FLAC library to similar levels as nice CD transports. I have been very pleased to get a high quality source with the convenience of my entire library without comprising sound quality (foobar with wasapi plug-in). Just wondering if any of you have found this type of converter to be a big help with your own systems.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Silent One, was your major in finance? I majored in finance and am finishing up an MBA with an emphasis in finance as well. I'm a little too burned out from breaking down business case studies for the last two years to get into here :O.


 







 Yeah... but if I had Sid-Fi's motivation and money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd be marching toward an MBA. I applaud and congratulate you.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hah. As for the motivation - thank you. As for the money - well there is always hope it will pay off eventually haha.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah... but if I had Sid-Fi's motivation and money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I'm wondering how many Woo owners are using a computer as source. If so, what sdpif converters are you using and how do you like it?
> 
> I'm using an Audiophilleo2 with an Aqvox low-noise power supply, and have been really pleased with it. It has made my listening sessions extremely more enjoyable and has brought my laptop and FLAC library to levels close enough to nice CD transports to be very pleased with the tradeoff for convenience. Just wondering if any of you have found this type of converter to be a big help with your own systems.


 






 A resounding YES! In Spring 2011, I had ordered an A2... it even shipped! And I cancelled the order in transit. This is because, I had recently purchased the MHDT USBridge. I was experiencing problems playing tracks at 176.4 kHz and my audio dealer was at a lost to resolve my issue. So, I ordered the A2. But quickly became interested in the soon to be released Duet2 and freed up those funds.
   
  I eventually contacted MHDT of Taiwan and got to the bottom of the issue I was having. Happy, I decided to keep the bridge and turn around and buy new headphones and new DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But the bridge took my system to the next level. I have a Wireworld Silver Starlight USB coming out of the Mac into the USbridge; Wireworld Silver Starlight Coax coming out of the bridge and into the W4S DAC.
   
  One thing I'm interested in trying later this year, is getting the Hi-Face EVO with a separate power supply or a custom battery option (LiFePo).


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> No, but I have heard an Eddie Current Balancing Act with EML 300B tubes and HD 800. It was the best audio experience I have had so far. In particular, it had incredible dynamics and impact and was very moving. It felt like the percussion instruments were in the room with you and impacting you physically instead of just through your ears. I was very impressed with it. It was also very transparent, had precise imaging, and very good detail. All of the impressions I have read on the WA5 seem very similar to how I would describe what I heard with the BA, so I would think the WA5 would provide a lot of the same benefits.


 
   
  Ah, it's like the ECBA? That's very interesting to know, considering that piece of kit is very legendary in terms of sonics. Excited for the future.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Yeah, the sonic characteristics that I described for the ECBA are similar to those I have read for 300B amplifiers in general. I think the tubes themselves are regarding for having those attributes. I wanted to get the WA5LE instead of the WA22, but there was no doubt I wouldn't be able to afford upgraded tubes for it for a quite awhile since the WA22 was already a stretch.
  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Ah, it's like the ECBA? That's very interesting to know, considering that piece of kit is very legendary in terms of sonics. Excited for the future.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Yeah, the sonic characteristics that I described for the ECBA are similar to those I have read for 300B amplifiers in general. I think the tubes themselves are regarding for having those attributes. I wanted to get the WA5LE instead of the WA22, but there was no doubt I wouldn't be able to afford upgraded tubes for it for a quite awhile since the WA22 was already a stretch.


 

  
  Actually, I was contemplating just getting the WA5LE instead of the WA5 due to the fact that I'll never use the speaker taps, but I didn't know what the difference in sound quality would be between the two. Also, I was considering the WA22 but doesn't sound like it has the same sonics that'll match what I enjoy in an amp.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Does anybody have the WA5 Maxed out and the HD800? I'm thinking that will be my final setup in a  year or so.


 

 I do. My WA5-LE has all the electronic upgrades, Teflon sockets, EML 300B Mesh, Several different tops NOS drivers and several different top rectifiers including EML 5U4G Mesh and USF 596.  The amp also is internally wired with all Neotech OCC copper wire and Cardas Eutetic solder. The only thing missing to be TOTALLY upgraded is the RK50 pot but I did not want to pay another $700 for that.
   
  My HD800 are recabled with the Zeus cabled and the internal wire connecting the inside of the connector the the driver has also been replaced with the same Wireworld wire used in the Zeus.
   
  IMO those HD800/WA5-LE sound excellent and to my taste the best open headphones (I also have the T1 with the Zeus). My 3 favorite headphones with the WA5 are the HD800, HE-6 and W3000ANV. Each at the top of the list within their own design. Now, which is the absolute winner of those 3 regardless design IMO it is a very close call between the HD800 and HE-6 to really declare a winner and the W3000ANV is just a 'hair" back but again it is a closed design so the soundstage is not as big (but it is very big for a closed headphone).


----------



## Sid-Fi

I don't think there are any sonic differences at all between the WA5 and the WA5LE, especially for headphones. The only difference, as far as I am aware, are the speaker taps and ability to drive efficient speakers as well.
   
  I thought the WA22 would be good for my HD 650 since they are so much better in balanced drive mode. Also, I felt a little funny springing for a WA5LE when I still have a $300 pair of cans hehe. I'm looking forward to HD 800 as my ideal can for the WA22. With a nice tube amp, I prefer the HD 800 over all of the orthodynamics, although I still have not heard the LCD2 r3.
  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Actually, I was contemplating just getting the WA5LE instead of the WA5 due to the fact that I'll never use the speaker taps, but I didn't know what the difference in sound quality would be between the two. Also, I was considering the WA22 but doesn't sound like it has the same sonics that'll match what I enjoy in an amp.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I don't think there are any sonic differences between the WA5 and the WA5LE, especially for headphones. The only difference, as far as I am aware is the speaker tabs and ability to drive speakers as well.
> 
> I thought the WA22 would be good for my HD 650 since they are so much better in balanced drive mode. Also, I felt a little funny springing for WA5LE when I still have a $300 pair of cans hehe. I'm looking forward to HD 800 as my ideal can for the WA22. With a nice tube amp, I prefer the HD 800 over all of the orthodynamics although I still have heard the LCD2 r3.


 

 That is correct the WA5 and the WA5-LE are the same amp but the WA5 has speaker output and K1000 output jack. 
  I was thinking to buy the WA22 because I was wanting to say balanced but when I compared the WA22 to the WA5-LE with the same T1 headphones it was very clear to me that the WA5-LE was a lot better amp even being SE so I went for it.


----------



## IceClass

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I was thinking to buy the WA22 because I was wanting to say balanced but when I compared the WA22 to the WA5-LE with the same T1 headphones it was very clear to me that the WA5-LE was a lot better amp...


 


  As someone who has been thinking of upgrading for a while but has been stuck on the fence between the WA5-LE and the WA22 and has no opportunity within 2000 miles to hear either I really wish I knew what this means.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Based on my experience listening to the Balancing Act and on everything I have read about the WA5 and 300B tube amplifiers in general, the WA5LE would likely have a significantly more "dynamic" sound. Everything just sounds much more alive and emotionally involving with great PRAT, impact, and slam. I have heard a lot of good balanced tube amps and none of them had these characteristics at the level that could compare. These are considered to be traits of 300B amplifiers, which both the WA5 and Balancing Act are.
   
  I agree with musicman59 that the WA5 being single ended means very little. Musicman59, would you agree in general with how I describe the sound characteristics of the BA as being representative of your WA5 as well?
  
  Quote: 





iceclass said:


> As someone who has been thinking of upgrading for a while but has been stuck on the fence between the WA5-LE and the WA22 and has no opportunity within 2000 miles to hear either I really wish I knew what this means.


----------



## hodgjy

I would also argue that unless you're running cables longer than 25-50 feet, there's no need to go balanced. 
  
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I agree with musicman59 that the WA5 being single ended means very little.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Yeah, the sonic characteristics that I described for the ECBA are similar to those I have read for 300B amplifiers in general. I think the tubes themselves are regarding for having those attributes. I wanted to get the WA5LE instead of the WA22, but there was no doubt I wouldn't be able to afford upgraded tubes for it for a quite awhile since the WA22 was already a stretch.


 

 I hate to say it as one of my first enamorations w/ the HD800 was the WA5.  But after hearing two different WA5s and having a lot of time on the BA, the two are not on the same level.  I haven't heard a fully Woo'd+ version to my knowledge but I know the way Craig gets his BA to sound the way it does is not through those parts upgrades or tube rolling.  That's a whole different ball of wax.  I do think the WA5 is top 5 though there abouts.  I'd take a Manley 300B over it tbh but that's still $2000+ more than a BA and different animal altogether.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I do. My WA5-LE has all the electronic upgrades, Teflon sockets, EML 300B Mesh, Several different tops NOS drivers and several different top rectifiers including EML 5U4G Mesh and USF 596.  The amp also is internally wired with all Neotech OCC copper wire and Cardas Eutetic solder. The only thing missing to be TOTALLY upgraded is the RK50 pot but I did not want to pay another $700 for that.
> 
> My HD800 are recabled with the Zeus cabled and the internal wire connecting the inside of the connector the the driver has also been replaced with the same Wireworld wire used in the Zeus.
> 
> IMO those HD800/WA5-LE sound excellent and to my taste the best open headphones (I also have the T1 with the Zeus). My 3 favorite headphones with the WA5 are the HD800, HE-6 and W3000ANV. Each at the top of the list within their own design. Now, which is the absolute winner of those 3 regardless design IMO it is a very close call between the HD800 and HE-6 to really declare a winner and the W3000ANV is just a 'hair" back but again it is a closed design so the soundstage is not as big (but it is very big for a closed headphone).


 

  
  Looks like I'm going with the WA5LE then. As of the moment I'm running my re-cabled HD650's through a WA6 and while the very lush, romantic sound is quite enjoyable, it's not a versatile for all the genres that I listen to. I want something that's a lot more technically capable, and so far the HD800 off the WA2, the Liquid Fire, and the Stingray all sound better than any other headphone I have tried, and that includes all the top tiered orthos and dynamics I have heard (LCD-2 - T1 - K1000 etc).


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> WA2, the Liquid Fire, and the Stingray all sound better than any other headphone I have tried, and that includes all the top tiered orthos and dynamics I have heard (LCD-2 - T1 - K1000 etc).


 

 How would you compare those, particularly the LF to Stingray.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> How would you compare those, particularly the LF to Stingray.


 


  I like the Liquid Fire more, especially for the HD800. They're both excellent amplifiers, but I find the Liquid Fire to edge out the Stingray, more to personal preference. I found the Liquid Fire to be less speedy and dynamically capable than the Stingray, but the imaging and overall layering was a lot bigger. The Stingray has a slightly edgy treble with lusher mids than the LF. The LF screams clarity, and while I didn't really listen to a lot of bass heavy music, I think the Stingray wins in that regard. Also, this is just in a nutshell.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I definitely agree with you about the HD 650. They are definitely lush, relaxing, and have a refined sound. However, I find myself yearning for a more balanced frequency response and much better speed. More than anything they can feel really slow, with exaggerated bass, and muted treble - although I think they have been fantastic for the price range as an overall can.
   
  What after market cable are you using on them? I find my Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 cable to help considerably with the issues I described above. They speed things up a tad, tighten up and reign in the bass, and bring out the treble a little better resulting in a more balanced and energetic sound. I actually just barely had a friend of mine make XLR interconnects using the same wire for my WA22 since I wanted silver throughout for these benefits. I plan on having using the HD 650 balanced with the WA22 for awhile. I'll probably sell my Audio-gd NFB10-WM and pickup a Musical Fidelity M1 DAC since I no longer need the amp section of my NFB10, and expect the M1 to better its DAC section.
  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Looks like I'm going with the WA5LE then. As of the moment I'm running my re-cabled HD650's through a WA6 and while the very lush, romantic sound is quite enjoyable, it's not a versatile for all the genres that I listen to. I want something that's a lot more technically capable, and so far the HD800 off the WA2, the Liquid Fire, and the Stingray all sound better than any other headphone I have tried, and that includes all the top tiered orthos and dynamics I have heard (LCD-2 - T1 - K1000 etc).


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I definitely agree with you about the HD 650. They are definitely lush, relaxing, and have a refined sound. However, I find myself yearning for a more balanced frequency response and much better speed. More than anything they can feel really slow, with exaggerated bass, and muted treble - although I think they have been fantastic for the price range as an overall can.
> 
> What after market cable are you using on them? I find my Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 cable to help considerably with the issues I described above. They speed things up a tad, tighten up and reign in the bass, and bring out the treble a little better resulting in a more balanced and energetic sound. I actually just barely had a friend of mine make XLR interconnects using the same wire for my WA22 since I wanted silver throughout for these benefits. I plan on having using the HD 650 balanced with the WA22 for awhile. I'll probably sell my Audio-gd NFB10-WM and pickup a Musical Fidelity M1 DAC since I no longer need the amp section of my NFB10, and expect the M1 to better its DAC section.


 


  I'm using a cable I made out of silver plated copper. And yes, I agree with everything you said about the HD650. It's a world class headphone, but definitely isn't for everyone.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I hate to say it as one of my first enamorations w/ the HD800 was the WA5.  But after hearing two different WA5s and having a lot of time on the BA, the two are not on the same level.  I haven't heard a fully Woo'd+ version to my knowledge but I know the way Craig gets his BA to sound the way it does is not through those parts upgrades or tube rolling.  That's a whole different ball of wax.  I do think the WA5 is top 5 though there abouts.  I'd take a Manley 300B over it tbh but that's still $2000+ more than a BA and different animal altogether.


 

 So you would say the BA is the better amp?  Was the one you listened to set up for 300B tubes or for 2A3/45 operation?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> So you would say the BA is the better amp?  Was the one you listened to set up for 300B tubes or for 2A3/45 operation?


 

 Yes.  Yes, both.  Purrin had 300Bs then modded over to the 45s.  The WA5 is the no brainer if you want K1000/HE6 drive and speaker taps.  I'd like to hear a fully decked WA5 versus a Manley 300B directly to make sure.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Based on my experience listening to the Balancing Act and on everything I have read about the WA5 and 300B tube amplifiers in general, the WA5LE would likely have a significantly more "dynamic" sound. Everything just sounds much more alive and emotionally involving with great PRAT, impact, and slam. I have heard a lot of good balanced tube amps and none of them had these characteristics at the level that could compare. These are considered to be traits of 300B amplifiers, which both the WA5 and Balancing Act are.
> 
> I agree with musicman59 that the WA5 being single ended means very little. Musicman59, would you agree in general with how I describe the sound characteristics of the BA as being representative of your WA5 as well?


 

 I think the description of the WA5 sound is right on. Unfortunately I have not listen to the BA so I can not say anything about it's sound.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I hate to say it as one of my first enamorations w/ the HD800 was the WA5.  But after hearing two different WA5s and having a lot of time on the BA, the two are not on the same level.  I haven't heard a fully Woo'd+ version to my knowledge but I know the way Craig gets his BA to sound the way it does is not through those parts upgrades or tube rolling.  That's a whole different ball of wax.  I do think the WA5 is top 5 though there abouts.  I'd take a Manley 300B over it tbh but that's still $2000+ more than a BA and different animal altogether.


 

 At the same 2010 Canjan where I compared the WA22 and WA5-LE I also listen to the Manley 300B and Pinnacle at TTVJ room. I personally liked the Woo better but that is really a matter of taste.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Looks like I'm going with the WA5LE then. As of the moment I'm running my re-cabled HD650's through a WA6 and while the very lush, romantic sound is quite enjoyable, it's not a versatile for all the genres that I listen to. I want something that's a lot more technically capable, and so far the HD800 off the WA2, the Liquid Fire, and the Stingray all sound better than any other headphone I have tried, and that includes all the top tiered orthos and dynamics I have heard (LCD-2 - T1 - K1000 etc).


 

 If I was doing it again I would go with the WA5 because it gives you more flexibility if you want to use the HE-6 out of the K1000 output. The HE-6 very good out of the WA5-LE but the extra power out of the K1000 will make them sound even better.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> If I was doing it again I would go with the WA5 because it gives you more flexibility if you want to use the HE-6 out of the K1000 output. The HE-6 very good out of the WA5-LE but the extra power out of the K1000 will make them sound even better.


 

  
  I've heard both the HE-6 and the K1000 out of the Stingray. Not a big fan of both their sonics, so I'd rather just stick with the HD800. If I get anything after the HD800, it'll be an electrostatic anyway.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I've heard both the HE-6 and the K1000 out of the Stingray. Not a big fan of both their sonics, so I'd rather just stick with the HD800. If I get anything after the HD800, it'll be an electrostatic anyway.


 

 I did listen to a "bass heavy" K1000 and they were not my cup of tea but I do like the HE-6. I am waiting delivery of a Stax SRM-727II and SR-009. I am planning to upgrade to a RSA A10 later.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> At the same 2010 Canjan where I compared the WA22 and WA5-LE I also listen to the Manley 300B and Pinnacle at TTVJ room. I personally liked the Woo better but that is really a matter of taste.


 

 What cans were you using at the time?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I did listen to a "bass heavy" K1000 and they were not my cup of tea but I do like the HE-6. I am waiting delivery of a Stax SRM-727II and SR-009. I am planning to upgrade to a RSA A10 later.


 


  Very, very awesome. Yeah, if anything my final setup would be a HE90 and a Woo Audio WES. I've heard that the SR-009 can sound almost too bright, and while the HD800 is supposed to be bright, sound is not the only reason I'm getting it. I've found the HE-6's treble to be a bit hot sometimes.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> What cans were you using at the time?


 
  My own T1 with Zeus cable with all of them.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Very, very awesome. Yeah, if anything my final setup would be a HE90 and a Woo Audio WES. I've heard that the SR-009 can sound almost too bright, and while the HD800 is supposed to be bright, sound is not the only reason I'm getting it. I've found the HE-6's treble to be a bit hot sometimes.


 

 I have listened to the SR-009 with the RSA A10, Woo WES and BHSE. IMO they sounded lean out of the BHSE and a little to laid back out of the WES but IMO the sounded great out of the A10. Thats sound was what made me think about getting them and then SillySally got them with the SRM-727II and since he also has the WA5-LE and similar taste that was what pushed me from the the fence.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have listened to the SR-009 with the RSA A10, Woo WES and BHSE. IMO they sounded lean out of the BHSE and a little to laid back out of the WES but IMO the sounded great out of the A10. Thats sound was what made me think about getting them and then SillySally got them with the SRM-727II and since he also has the WA5-LE and similar taste that was what pushed me from the the fence.


 


  I've never been huge on the SRM-727II. For me, it's not really sound, but looks. Not a fan of the solid state look, as I like the tube look (the A10 looks phenomenal). Also, you've heard the BHSE? What's the speed like vs. the RSA A10 and the WES? If I were to ever get a SR-009 or a HE90, I'd like to know which has better PRaT and dynamics, as an overall.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I've never been huge on the SRM-727II. For me, it's not really sound, but looks. Not a fan of the solid state look, as I like the tube look (the A10 looks phenomenal). Also, you've heard the BHSE? What's the speed like vs. the RSA A10 and the WES? If I were to ever get a SR-009 or a HE90, I'd like to know which has better PRaT and dynamics, as an overall.


 

 Yes, I listened to BHSE and SR-009 at RMAF/Canjam last October. I personally did not like it. I thought (as well as another very senior member here) the sound was lean and with not much dynamics. 
  I listened to the WES and A10 at the same meet in Detroit last summer. I thought the WES sound was a little too dark to my taste. Out of the 3 I think the A10 is the one that gives the most dynamics and PRat. 
  I am hoping to be able to upgrade to the A10 in a year.


----------



## Anaxilus

I actually agree, the BH is not my thing, especially w/ the 009 and the speed and dynamics you are looking for.  BH is better for laid back, relaxed genres, but still.  There's a few stat amps coming out.  Aristaeus, Liquid Lightning, Electra.  I personally don't like anything on the market right now as 'ideal'.  Aristaeus just shipped, LL could use tubes IMO, Electra still at tail end of pre-production to production.  Haven't heard the A10 or Woo stat amps but people who's ears I trust aren't too fond.  I'll still have to decide for myself.  I actually feel I need an amp to sell me on the 009 tbh.  The HE90 is my almost near perfect phone.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I've never been huge on the SRM-727II. For me, it's not really sound, but looks. Not a fan of the solid state look, as I like the tube look (the A10 looks phenomenal). Also, you've heard the BHSE? What's the speed like vs. the RSA A10 and the WES? If I were to ever get a SR-009 or a HE90, I'd like to know which has better PRaT and dynamics, as an overall.


 

 How about a pair of these tubes in a 300B amp.
   
  Now add a SRM-727 and SM-009's to this system, and your own PRIR from AIX sound studios.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I actually agree, the BH is not my thing, especially w/ the 009 and the speed and dynamics you are looking for.  BH is better for laid back, relaxed genres, but still.  There's a few stat amps coming out.  Aristaeus, Liquid Lightning, Electra.  I personally don't like anything on the market right now as 'ideal'.  Aristaeus just shipped, LL could use tubes IMO, Electra still at tail end of pre-production to production.  Haven't heard the A10 or Woo stat amps but people who's ears I trust aren't too fond.  I'll still have to decide for myself.  I actually feel I need an amp to sell me on the 009 tbh.  The HE90 is my almost near perfect phone.


 


  For the money and the right system, the SRM-727/SR-009 combo is a winner.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> For the money and the right system, the SRM-727/SR-009 combo is a winner.


 

 Not sure, I haven't heard any Solid State amp that gives me the resolving power I've grown accustomed to.  I don't see the point in dropping $5K on a phone and budgeting your amp unless you want to DIY something for better price/performance.  I somehow doubt the 727 is better than a KGSSHV which still wasn't ideal w/ the 009 IMHO.  The BH has really good detail and the LL has the dynamics.  Haven't heard anything that has both in equal measure....yet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

been enjoying my WA6-SE and D7000 lately.
   
   
  been dexing all week too, so haven't been on head-fi lol
   
  really miss my T1 too, gonna contact beyer monday and see whats up.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Not sure, I haven't heard any Solid State amp that gives me the resolving power I've grown accustomed to.  I don't see the point in dropping $5K on a phone and budgeting your amp unless you want to DIY something for better price/performance.  I somehow doubt the 727 is better than a KGSSHV which still wasn't ideal w/ the 009 IMHO.  The BH has really good detail and the LL has the dynamics.  Haven't heard anything that has both in equal measure....yet.


 
  Try the SRM-727II/SR-009 combo in your home with your rig for about 2 weeks.
  Don't be fooled because of the price of the SRM-727II, it will give great detail and wounderful dynamic swings.
  Very much like a great 5.1/7.1 or 2.0 speaker sound system, at least using my PRIR's/realiser and the rest of my rig.
  But that's not to say it sounds any differant just coming from a DAC to the amp system for 2CH audio.
   
  Anyway the point being, on my system there is very little point in dropping big money or a diy amp.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Try the SRM-727II/SR-009 combo in your home with your rig for about 2 weeks.
> Don't be fooled because of the price of the SRM-727II, it will give great detail and wounderful dynamic swings.
> Very much like a great 5.1/7.1 or 2.0 speaker sound system, at least using my PRIR's/realiser and the rest of my rig.
> But that's not to say it sounds any differant just coming from a DAC to the amp system for 2CH audio.
> ...


 

 I think we're kind of talking past each other.  Let me ask this which might be simpler.  Have you heard the 009 from the Liquid lightning versus your 727II?  Unless it's more detailed and at least as dynamic as the LL I'm not interested regardless of how cheap or expensive it is.  
   
  We're quite OT it would seem as well.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I think we're kind of talking past each other.  Let me ask this which might be simpler.  Have you heard the 009 from the Liquid lightning versus your 727II?  Unless it's more detailed and at least as dynamic as the LL I'm not interested regardless of how cheap or expensive it is.
> 
> We're quite OT it would seem as well.


 

 Sending you a PM about this. My comparisons are not biased on what I hear in a room full of great Head-Fi-ers, but only on my system in my man cave.
   
  btw, I am not trying to sell anybody anything, all I am saying is don't sell the SRM-727II/SR-009 combo short because of the give-away price for this amp.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:  

  received.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I am not trying to sell anybody anything, all I am saying is don't sell the SRM-727II/SR-009 combo short because of the give-away price for this amp.


 
   
  I'd agree about the SRM-727II/SR-009 combo.  I was surprised during the SF Bay Area Head-Fi meet that I preferred the SR-009 with the SRM-727II to when the SR-009 was paired with the LL or with the BHSE. 
  It shows you have to listen to the various Headphone/Amp combos to know what you prefer sonically.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> been enjoying my WA6-SE and D7000 lately.
> 
> 
> been dexing all week too, so haven't been on head-fi lol
> ...


 






 Well, hopefully you all clear and stuff, so the Denon's can go downstairs and go to work... congrats on your purchase! Would like to get your thoughts north of 150 hours. What's with Beyer, anyway? You're not proposing to buy them, you've already bought them. They have a chance to really win you over with customer service if they're paying attention! I really enjoyed my dynamic WA6SE/D7000 pairing...


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

I'm getting the impression that a number of WA5 owners have opted for the LE version? No love for speakers or just looking to pocket the savings from an unused feature?
 I like flexibility, but I often get flexibility in products I never end up using (at additional cost). Looking at the WA5, on it's face it has a connection for a headphone that may as well be as rare as hen's teeth, it's even labelled as if to taunt you!
   
  For a long time I was looking at something nearfield for speakers, while using one of my amps as a preamp, only to find most power amps were comparatively large (physically), and going slim integrated just seems redundant.
   
  Btw, how long is the power supply cable linking both halves of the WA5 variants. The manual doesn't state, but the pic makes it seem quite short.


----------



## Silent One

WooAudio can make the cable longer to suit your needs...


----------



## emremusic

I'm thinking about selling one of my drum sets.. either for D7000 or HD800. I know they are very different cans. 
   
  I had a revelation with my AKG 702 and realized why I can't get into them. 
   
  I plugged my cheap Koss 75 into WA6SE, and realized i liked the upfrontness of them.
   
  The AKG soundstage is really unfocused - like there is a far left and a far right but nothing in the center. It's really difficult to just get into music with it. 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, hopefully you all clear and stuff, so the Denon's can go downstairs and go to work... congrats on your purchase! Would like to get your thoughts north of 150 hours. What's with Beyer, anyway? You're not proposing to buy them, you've already bought them. They have a chance to really win you over with customer service if they're paying attention! *I really enjoyed my dynamic WA6SE/D7000 pairing...*


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I'm thinking about selling one of my drum sets.. either for D7000 or HD800. I know they are very different cans.
> 
> I had a revelation with my AKG 702 and realized why I can't get into them.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with Silent One here, the D7000s are really great with the SE, I haven't tried the HD800s yet, but thats the next phone I have my eyes on.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> The AKG soundstage is really unfocused - like there is a far left and a far right but nothing in the center. It's really difficult to just get into music with it.


 
   
  My OTL cured this, big time, for my K701s.  At first I had thought the soundstage had shrunk, but after adjusting it was apparent that I was just hearing them image correctly for the first time.  They are a fussy headphone to amp, it takes more than just sheer power.


----------



## Austin Morrow

So, with all that being said about the HD800 and the WA5LE combo (and a DHC Molecule Cable down the road) and other things, what would be the best 1K DAC to go with the WA5LE and the HD800. I already have the Rein Audio X-DAC on the way, so I'm thinking another DAC may not be necessary.


----------



## Silent One

If you're polling, I'm voting... W4S DAC-1!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So, with all that being said about the HD800 and the WA5LE combo (and a DHC Molecule Cable down the road) and other things, what would be the best 1K DAC to go with the WA5LE and the HD800. I already have the Rein Audio X-DAC on the way, so I'm thinking another DAC may not be necessary.


 


   


  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> I'm getting the impression that a number of WA5 owners have opted for the LE version? No love for speakers or just looking to pocket the savings from an unused feature?
> I like flexibility, but I often get flexibility in products I never end up using (at additional cost). Looking at the WA5, on it's face it has a connection for a headphone that may as well be as rare as hen's teeth, it's even labelled as if to taunt you!
> 
> For a long time I was looking at something nearfield for speakers, while using one of my amps as a preamp, only to find most power amps were comparatively large (physically), and going slim integrated just seems redundant.
> ...


 

 The only two headphones connectors in the face plate are for the normal 1/4" TRS plug in the right side and a 4 pin XLR connector for the K1000 on the left. Looking in retrospective if I would buy it again I would go with the WA5 instead of the LE just to have the extra power out of the K1000 out put to be use with the HE-6 and LCD-X headphones. Now, If you have efficient speakers the WA5 also is a fine amplifier for them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> *I'm thinking about selling one of my drum sets*.. either for D7000 or HD800. I know they are very different cans.
> 
> I had a revelation with my AKG 702 and realized why I can't get into them.
> 
> ...


 







 The horror! Hopefully, it's drum set number three, so that you'll still be backed up. I've heard both the D7000 & HD800 on a WA22 but only for a few hours. Based on my preferences for music and how I want it to sound, I'd likely go with the D7000 and pick up and pair the HD800 with another amp to be bought later. 
   
  And then there are deals... and opportunities. If I had a chance to acquire the HD800 (recabled) Pre-Owned at a wonderful price... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Deals could prove alluring with many cans, sooooo no, I'd get the Denon's for the_ 6 Special Edition._ If one were to view my musical preferences, they'd say "Ah-ha!" And it would all make sense or more so.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If you're polling, I'm voting... W4S DAC-1!


 


  Ah, I've been contacting them for a while now about a review. First on the uDAC and then on the DAC-2. I've been holding out though for the WS1 from Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Ah, I've been contacting them for a while now about a review. First on the uDAC and then on the DAC-2. I've been holding out though for the WS1 from Woo.


 

 Any word back on the uDAC? Jack give you any hints on pushing the WS1 Westbound for you?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Any word back on the uDAC? Jack give you any hints on pushing the WS1 Westbound for you?


 


  Lemme ask him about that. I'm currently reviewing the WA^ as of the moment and while the WA5LE was next on the list, looks like I'll change that.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So, with all that being said about the HD800 and the WA5LE combo (and a DHC Molecule Cable down the road) and other things, what would be the best 1K DAC to go with the WA5LE and the HD800. I already have the Rein Audio X-DAC on the way, so I'm thinking another DAC may not be necessary.


 

 Hi Austin:
   
  Don't have the HD800's but do have the LCD-3's and HD650's and the WA5. I am running a computer  server system and the DAC I am using and am very happy with is the Calyx DAC. It is straight USB out of my Mac mini and does 24/192. It is also balanced if you decide to go balanced (with say a WA22 instead of a WA5).
   
  Rumble.


----------



## Silent One

Great. But isn't your suggestion $799 retail above his target?


----------



## davidio

Sorry to drop in on a slightly different discussion,
  but I've been informed by Jack that the Woo 6 amp does indeed support the use of Mullard ECC32 drivers.  Currently, my only experience with 6SN7s has been the Brimar CV1888s, which to me sound fantastic with the Mundorf silver oil upgrades.  I'm getting the impression however that the Mullard ECC32 is like a holy grail of sound (even though it isn't really an 6SN7).  Skylab seems to put it at the top of the list for 6SN7-fitted drivers.  I'm intrigued enough to try it.  Does anyone here have experience with these highly prized drivers in their Woo amps?  How would you descibe the sound signature?  I've heard "romantic" and "full ranged," but those words don't translate well to me.
   
  BTW, the mundorf upgrades are sounding better every day.  The hard edges of sound are still getting softer and all the best qualities of tube amplification are coming out now.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So, with all that being said about the HD800 and the WA5LE combo (and a DHC Molecule Cable down the road) and other things, what would be the best 1K DAC to go with the WA5LE and the HD800. I already have the Rein Audio X-DAC on the way, so I'm thinking another DAC may not be necessary.


 


  I don't think a $1K DAC will do the HD800 justice, this phone is very source revealing.

  
  Quote: 





davidio said:


> Sorry to drop in on a slightly different discussion,
> but I've been informed by Jack that the Woo 6 amp does indeed support the use of Mullard ECC32 drivers.  Currently, my only experience with 6SN7s has been the Brimar CV1888s, which to me sound fantastic with the Mundorf silver oil upgrades.  I'm getting the impression however that the Mullard ECC32 is like a holy grail of sound (even though it isn't really an 6SN7).  Skylab seems to put it at the top of the list for 6SN7-fitted drivers.  I'm intrigued enough to try it.  Does anyone here have experience with these highly prized drivers in their Woo amps?  How would you descibe the sound signature?  I've heard "romantic" and "full ranged," but those words don't translate well to me.
> 
> BTW, the mundorf upgrades are sounding better every day.  The hard edges of sound are still getting softer and all the best qualities of tube amplification are coming out now.


 
   
  I would not recommend it until you upgrade you amp first, you probably will not get full advantage of the ECC32.  I recommend to try the TS BGRP 6SN7 or 6F8G instead.


----------



## Draygonn

dixter said:


> Here's some interesting reading on the ODAC...




I'm planning on picking one up for my secondary rig. Thinking Squeezebox Touch > ODAC > Crack. Just so you know, linking to that blog is not allowed because the author is a banned head-fi member.

now its time for some eye candy


----------



## Rumbleripper

Yes, but he may be able to come apon a used unit, that may work with his budget. Just letting people know that it is a very nice DAC for the money.
   
  Rumble.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great. But isn't your suggestion $799 retail above his target?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Yes, but he may be able to come apon a used unit, that may work with his budget. Just letting people know that it is a very nice DAC for the money.
> 
> Rumble.


 

 Good point. Which is why I tried to 'neak in "Retail." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some really good DACs come with 3 year (or 2 year) warranties - buying Pre-Owned is very smart in the ever changing minefield of DACs.
   
  Silent One's "Silent Story" (_shhhhh..._). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought my W4S DAC-1 "B"-Stock from their website and saved a few hundred dollars with just over two years remaining on the 3 year warranty. Had Wyred4Sound upgrade the Digital Board; add Low ESR "Super Caps" which the DAC-1 doesn't have. My DAC-1 still came in under retail and outperforms the new DAC-1 to boot!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'm planning on picking one up for my secondary rig. Thinking Squeezebox Touch > ODAC > Crack. Just so you know, linking to that blog is not allowed because the author is a banned head-fi member.
> now its time for some eye candy


 

 This shot makes for a magnificent Monday!


----------



## MacedonianHero

So I finally bit the bullet and picked up strannik's EML 5U4G mesh plate rectifier tube to try on my WA22. Should be interesting to compare it to my other two favourite rectifier tubes (5U4G Sylvania and 274B Princess Mesh Plate).
   
  I'll report back once I get it.


----------



## Silent One

I am surprised you haven't visited the EML Glass before now on the '22.' Looking forward to hear what you hear. Have you had a chance to hear the USAF-596?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I am surprised you haven't visited the EML Glass before now on the '22.' Looking forward to hear what you hear...


 


  Waiting for the right opportunity I guess. Found it semi-locally and at a reasonable price with very low hours.


----------



## Silent One

You are wise.


----------



## SixthFall

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Not 100% sure if I was one of those two the question was directed to, but would like to share my experience of tube lifetimes.
> 
> Had 2 TSRP 6SN7 fail on me after 3000 hours of use, web implies 10,000 hours use from NOS and these were bought NOS. It was very strange failure - 3 heaters out of 4 went at once, a sad and expensive day - which is why I'm trying new production tubes out recently.
> 
> ...


 


  Any chance of a pic of the scorched 274b??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sixthfall said:


> Any chance of a pic of the scorched 274b??


 


  Silently, I wondered about asking and decided against it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _But now that you have, I wanna see it!_


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Silently, I wondered about asking and decided against it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1
  having/using a SP right now, id like to see it too!!


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





sixthfall said:


> Any chance of a pic of the scorched 274b??


 

 Heh heh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ill post something at lunchtime.

  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So, with all that being said about the HD800 and the WA5LE combo (and a DHC Molecule Cable down the road) and other things, what would be the best 1K DAC to go with the WA5LE and the HD800. I already have the Rein Audio X-DAC on the way, so I'm thinking another DAC may not be necessary.


 
   
  I have the HD800 cabled with the SA Endorphin and Woo5 and rolling in the right tubes makes a great combo. James at SA recommended using the K1K jack but I chickened out and went for the standard quarter inch based on resale potential.
  
  Now to save enough for a pair of LCD3's but the wallet is real sore atm


----------



## San Raal

OK here they are, due to the smoked glass and my choice of a light source in the office (A sunny window) the photos aren't great, note in the left hand pic the normal colour of the electrodes and then the "fins" in the last 2 which correspond to the least distant point between both, this is where the scorching occurred as a result of the arcing.
   

   
  Enjoy


----------



## davidio

San Raal,
  Your news is not encourageing as I sink more and more money into tubes.  Ugh.  So the avg. life is less than half of what it should be.  Is your amp the problem...or is it just false advertising on the part of the tube sellers?
   
  Speaking of spending a lot for something that might fizzle, I have ordered the Chelmer variety of Mullard ECC32s for my modded Woo 6.  Jack at Woo told me they will work in the driver seat.  I know some of you think I won't get the full effect of these drivers from the Woo 6, and I understand the concern.  But seriously, the thing sounds so damn good now with the Mundorf Silver Oils replacing all the caps, that I think it is going to be killer.  I'm ordering mine from Brendan at Tube World... They are "kuhltubes," cryo'ed.  Based on others' posts, that means that they will last a little longer, with better sound.  If anybody has comments on the debate about cryo'ed tubes, please share. 
   
  Will post observations later.  If they fizzle and gas up, you will hear me scream halfway around the world.  I can order another Princess rectifier rather painlessly, but a rare and expensive tube like the ECC32... I may just say heck with it if I find that it is a crap shoot.  I'll just stick with the semi-rare, medium-priced tubes.  Usually, however, it seems I get what I pay for.  The military grade Brimar CV1888s are rich, defined, meaty and spacious.  No complaints from them, and they didn't cost as much as a house payment.  ECC32 pairs ARE like a house payment!  This is...crazy.


----------



## SixthFall

Quote: 





davidio said:


> San Raal,
> Your news is not encourageing as I sink more and more money into tubes.  Ugh.  So the avg. life is less than half of what it should be.  Is your amp the problem...or is it just false advertising on the part of the tube sellers?


 

  I think its neither. Tube life numbers are an average in ideal conditions. Much like a light bulbs advertised life. Tubes will last longer if they are driven lower than their rated maximum, and using them in an amp requires that they be turned on and off alot. Things like this don't like the constiant expansion and contraction of thermal cycling. It will lower their working life for sure.


----------



## Draygonn

davidio said:


> If anybody has comments on the debate about cryo'ed tubes, please share.



Never heard of the cryo debate. Does that mean they have been cryogenically frozen for 40 years? 


davidio said:


> ECC32 pairs ARE like a house payment!  This is...crazy.


purrin dropped 3 grand on a pair of tubes for his BA. There appears to be no limit on tube prices.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> purrin dropped 3 grand on a pair of tubes for his BA. There appears to be no limit on tube prices.


 

 He actually got a bargain for those compared to typical market price.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He also got to hear another set before he bought them so it was not a blind purchase.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Must be talking about NOS WE 300Bs.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





davidio said:


> San Raal,
> Your news is not encourageing as I sink more and more money into tubes.  Ugh.  So the avg. life is less than half of what it should be.  Is your amp the problem...or is it just false advertising on the part of the tube sellers?
> 
> Speaking of spending a lot for something that might fizzle, I have ordered the Chelmer variety of Mullard ECC32s for my modded Woo 6.  Jack at Woo told me they will work in the driver seat.  I know some of you think I won't get the full effect of these drivers from the Woo 6, and I understand the concern.  But seriously, the thing sounds so damn good now with the Mundorf Silver Oils replacing all the caps, that I think it is going to be killer.  I'm ordering mine from Brendan at Tube World... They are "kuhltubes," cryo'ed.  Based on others' posts, that means that they will last a little longer, with better sound.  If anybody has comments on the debate about cryo'ed tubes, please share.
> ...


 

 Hi Davidio,
   
  I honestly don't know why my TSRP died when they did. I wouldn't want to speculate without concrete evidence. Please dont take that as an indication your Mullards will fail before their time!
   
  It was an expensive month in Feb, I went on a 6SN7 spending spree and ended up with quite a few NOS, some JAN Ken Rad, Valvo and JAN NU black glass and the new prod Shugang Treasure. Settled on the Shugang CV181 over NOS for my Woo5 (Its electrically equiv to a 6SN7 not a true ECC32/CV181 like your purchasing) I'm sure that you'll be very happy with your ECC32 purchase, its an investment as the value of those tubes will only go up. One would also hope that the premium you pay at an online tube vendor over a private sale is peace of mind if they are DOA.
   
  I had a pair of the Mullard ECC32 pass through 4/5 years ago for around $200 and couldnt use them as the heaters drew too much current for the 7812 regulator in my old amps supply.  Wish I had kept hold of them too!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my beyer t1 back, pics of all my new stuff to come!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Dubstep Girl

really falling in love with my WA2....
   
  if i just owned the T1 and HD 800 alone, its like perfect amp.


----------



## Rawrbington

i actually just warmed up my 2 for the first time in what seems like weeks.
  i keep thinking im moving away from headphones to speakers.  having found a soft spot in my heart and ears for this marantz 2245 paired with these fantastic ADS speakers.  im probably about to sell my 990s, and, the thought keeps crossing my mind that the 2 and its tubes is about a 1000$ of stuff getting no use.
   
  anyways, just put on the 650s with the woo nicely warmed up.  what was i thinking?
   
  i do think the beyers are on their way out, but not the woo and not the 650s or 770 pros.
   
  if nothing else the deuce may become an awesome preamp for my speaker system.  the kind of pre amp that doubles as freaking magical headphone amp.
   
  currently hearing Darkness at the Edge of Town, and man it sound sooooo darn gooooood


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Hi Davidio,
> 
> I honestly don't know why my TSRP died when they did. I wouldn't want to speculate without concrete evidence. Please dont take that as an indication your Mullards will fail before their time!
> 
> ...


 

 Woo audio has the two 6SN7s in series running on 12 volts so if one burns out the outher will not light. You may only have
  one bad tube.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I am surprised you haven't visited the EML Glass before now on the '22.' Looking forward to hear what you hear. Have you had a chance to hear the USAF-596?


 

 So a few hours into the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate and so far I really like what I'm hearing. The sound staging is huge...very much like the Sophia Princess 274B Mesh Plate. Not sure which is better, but both are my current favourites. More to report later as this tube only has 4-6 hours on it.
   
  Oh and the tube is massive. I've drank cola out of smaller bottles.


----------



## grokit

I am still in the process of evaluating the 596 rectifier tube in my WA22. My initial impression was that it really got me back into my rev.1 LCD-2, which had become somewhat lacking lately in comparison to the HD800. But in turn, the 596 fatigued me with the HD800 to the point where I have not been able to have more than a short listening session in the week or so since then.
   
  Now that I am finally and fully re-immersed, I am finding that the 596 is not bright so much as it is revealing. I wasn't able to find that same harshness with the HD800 and vinyl material as I could with digital, so I was going with the assumption that some kind of digital glare had become more apparent with this tube than with the Sophia Princess which is my benchmark rectifier so far.
   
  But even digital glare is oversimplifying things somewhat, because while the 596 had transformed the rev.1 into a much better bet with pretty much all forms of music, it has also seriously kicked the sonics up a notch with certain recordings out of the HD 800.
   
  The 596 is almost as punchy as the Sophia, but the added soundstage and low level detail retrieval can be astounding with these songs, that I had never thought of as anything that special before. One of these is Yours is No Disgrace from the Classic Yes album, it totally reached another level for me with the 596 tube combined with the HD 800 headphone.
   
  This experience also confirms for me my ongoing suspicion that not all Cowboy Junkies' albums are recorded equally as well, even if most are above average 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The LCD-2 is still the preferable headphone overall with the 596 rectifier, but the HD 800 can take things up to a whole new level with the 596. This is very different than my experience with the Sophia Princess, which seems to make everything sound really good with the HD 800, but also can reduce the Audeze to a somewhat more pedestrian experience.
   
  So many tubes, so little time... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I will need to roll in the EMLs for a bit to more properly evaluate the 596, so time to power down for a while.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

The closest I've been able to find to 'ideal conditions' is 'typical operation' for some usages which shows on some datasheets, most simply list characteristics and maximum ratings. I've mostly been reading 6AS7 sheets, and most will often state an intention or suitability for, regulated power supply. Some will mention audio applications. I wonder though, does use in a headphone amplifier sit well within 'ideal conditions'? I would think so as a layperson, doesn't seem like it would be a particularly strenuous task on hardware. Even with convection, the bulb temps (and others if you want to use a IR thermometer through the glass) all fall well below the data sheets. I'll still keep using forced air cooling...because WA2 is my first valve amp...and I feel like babying it.
   
*San Raal*, You way you describe it sounds dramatic the arcing you got, The amp just shrugged the incident off? "Pfttt, is that all you GOT?!")
   
  Question for you champs. How do you folks manage your valve stock? Aside from rolling for flavour, do you do much rotation or do you pretty much run them in to the dirt then swap? I'm flogging the crap out some Woo supplied tubes for the warranty period, but I was thinking of swapping the stock tubes back and grinding them down to nothing (or until intolerable, but I don't know what that sounds like)
   
   
  Quote: 





sixthfall said:


> I think its neither. Tube life numbers are an average in ideal conditions. Much like a light bulbs advertised life. Tubes will last longer if they are driven lower than their rated maximum, and using them in an amp requires that they be turned on and off alot. Things like this don't like the constiant expansion and contraction of thermal cycling. It will lower their working life for sure.


----------



## SixthFall

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> The closest I've been able to find to 'ideal conditions' is 'typical operation' for some usages which shows on some datasheets, most simply list characteristics and maximum ratings. I've mostly been reading 6AS7 sheets, and most will often state an intention or suitability for, regulated power supply. Some will mention audio applications. I wonder though, does use in a headphone amplifier sit well within 'ideal conditions'? I would think so as a layperson, doesn't seem like it would be a particularly strenuous task on hardware. Even with convection, the bulb temps (and others if you want to use a IR thermometer through the glass) all fall well below the data sheets. I'll still keep using forced air cooling...because WA2 is my first valve amp...and I feel like babying it.
> 
> *San Raal*, You way you describe it sounds dramatic the arcing you got, The amp just shrugged the incident off? "Pfttt, is that all you GOT?!")
> 
> Question for you champs. How do you folks manage your valve stock? Aside from rolling for flavour, do you do much rotation or do you pretty much run them in to the dirt then swap? I'm flogging the crap out some Woo supplied tubes for the warranty period, but I was thinking of swapping the stock tubes back and grinding them down to nothing (or until intolerable, but I don't know what that sounds like)


 
  I run mine into the dirt


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I am still in the process of to evaluating the 596 rectifier tube in my WA22. My initial impression was that it really got me back into my rev.1 LCD-2, which had become somewhat lacking lately in comparison to the HD800. But in turn, the 596 fatigued me with the HD800 to the point where I have not been able to have more than a short listening session in the week or so since then.
> 
> Now that I am finally and fully re-immersed, I am finding that the 596 is not bright so much as it is revealing. I wasn't able to find that same harshness with the HD800 and vinyl material as I could with digital, so I was going with the assumption that some kind of digital glare had become more apparent with this tube than with the Sophia Princess which is my benchmark.
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, powering down is the perfect time to grab a drink... while giving your inner ears a break!


----------



## Rawrbington

my tube usage is unorganized.
  but
  i typically use the best tubes i got.  and plan to use those tubes until they need to be changed.
  im speculative that theres really anything i can buy that will make it sound better than it does.
  dead silent matched 5998s, dead silent matched amprex bugle boy 6DJ8s and the stock rectifiers.
   
  i could maybe upgrade the 6922/6DJ8 socket tubes, but at what cost and to what end?
  maybe some mullards will sound slightly better, maybe.  and theyll probably set me back 200$
  thats too much $$$ for a maybe.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> So a few hours into the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate and so far I really like what I'm hearing. The sound staging is huge...very much like the Sophia Princess 274B Mesh Plate. Not sure which is better, but both are my current favourites. More to report later as this tube only has 4-6 hours on it.
> 
> Oh and the tube is massive. I've drank cola out of smaller bottles.


 


  The EML Glass is gorgeous own its own. Here, you've got it flanked quite nicely.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The EML Glass is gorgeous own its own. Here, you've got it flanked quite nicely.


 

 The Shuguang Treasures do look quite dapper next to the EML.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> really falling in love with my WA2....
> 
> if i just owned the T1 and HD 800 alone, its like perfect amp.


 


  With your cans excelling with one Woo or another, which phone does double-duty best (WA6SE/WA2)?


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah that thing oozes sex.
   
  how much clearance do you guys think the WA2 needs?
  my setup currently has it on a shelf with about 4-5 inches clearance over the tops of the biggest tubes, and all of the sides of the shelf are open, just 4 posts, 1 in each corner supporting the shelf.
  think it needs more room?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With your cans excelling with one Woo or another, which phone does double-duty best (WA6SE/WA2)?


 


  HD-800.
   
  the T1 is great with either amp as well, but can be a little on the harsh side with the WA6-SE at times.
  the LCD-2 is a little slower sounding on the WA2 and the D7000 work ok with either one, but sound a little dark at times with the WA2.
   
  the HD 800 definitely works the best with both of them, easily displaying its strengths with either amp


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ah, powering down is the perfect time to grab a drink... while giving your inner ears a break!


 

 Yep, and I'm skipping the java today to boot. Currently steeping up some fine _yerba mate_ to sip through my currently-favored _bombilla _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow just my luck...
   
   
  , my hd 800 fell and it bent the connector on the cable, i tried to bend them back into place and broke the metal connector. 
   
  headphones are fine, but the cables damaged.
   
  now i gotta buy a replacement cable. wonder how much those cost....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow just my luck...
> 
> 
> , my hd 800 fell and it bent the connector on the cable, i tried to bend them back into place and broke the metal connector.
> ...


 

  
  When you weren't looking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the T1's did it!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> wow just my luck...
> 
> 
> , my hd 800 fell and it bent the connector on the cable, i tried to bend them back into place and broke the metal connector.
> ...




Pm going your way, I tried three different cables and finally decided on this one. Not sure the maker will make anymore but worth asking.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When you weren't looking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  they actually did, i was pulling my T1s to see them, the Hd 800 cable was wrapped around them and it knocked them over, one of the connectors got bent and when i tried to bend the metal back, it snapped. the cable still works but i can't keep a damaged cable on them, it looks really bad.


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Pm going your way, I tried three different cables and finally decided on this one. Not sure the maker will make anymore but worth asking.


 

 ty ill look into it.


----------



## jc9394

All the Woo talk tonight makes me put the beta22 at the time out corner and fire up the WA22.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i actually just warmed up my 2 for the first time in what seems like weeks.
> i keep thinking im moving away from headphones to speakers.  having found a soft spot in my heart and ears for this marantz 2245 paired with these fantastic ADS speakers.  im probably about to sell my 990s, and, the thought keeps crossing my mind that the 2 and its tubes is about a 1000$ of stuff getting no use.
> 
> anyways, just put on the 650s with the woo nicely warmed up.  what was i thinking?
> ...


 
  What model of ADS speakers do you have? I love ADS speakers and have been looking for a pair of M30 for over 10 years with no luck.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All the Woo talk tonight makes me put the beta22 at the time out corner and fire up the WA22.


 






 Yesterday, Clayton SF so kindly asked, which three amps I wanted to hear during my upcoming visit in two weeks. The first one is easy, WA4 hands down! The next two, however, will require deeper thought...


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

I wish I could use some of that Fancy glass, I tend toward objectivity, being more of a PC geek, but I'd get fancy glass just for looks and the EML stuff looks good. 
  Maybe I missed the boat on the WA22 and the Fancy glass, I ruled it out early in my selection process having researching the what and why of Balanced, even though my source can output balance, I figured I'd never dare to mutilate my headphone cables. I guess I just wasn't convinced.
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
*Rawrbington*, that sounds like plenty of space, I had to do a metric conversion, but the space above at 4inches sounds like it's in line with what you'll find most equipment manuals. The WA2 manual specifically states a minimum of 2inches, which is about half of what you're doing now. It's probably fine and yours is like an open space with a roof, I wouldn't do it because I love my fan's and stuff. if I could get watercooling sleeves, I'd probably plumb the damn thing in to my PC radiator for no other reason than because it's cool.

 I spent some cash on the Woo tubes from the local distro in Australia, The Mullard 6v4s were perhaps the most expensive single item. I'm not a critical listener (just an enjoyer), not sure I could pick anything out in a blind test or anything, but I guess it sounds better, but as I understand it, Rectifiers sit in the power supply and beyond fulfilling varying power demands, don't interact with the signal but then again, Audio seems to have a Power (supply) fetish. I read the data sheets for 7236s and thought they were worth a go. (The Woo Amp comparison sheet doesn't list power output with these fitted). Some JAN 6992 picked up as a 'better' 6DJ8.

 I couldn't drop the cash for Amperax 7308. I just couldn't. "Ok guys, gonna need a fact check now before I'm convinced."
  The irony of my extra tube purchase is that I could've hit up a WA22 with stock valves, other selection criteria not withstanding.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> yeah that thing oozes sex.
> 
> how much clearance do you guys think the WA2 needs?
> my setup currently has it on a shelf with about 4-5 inches clearance over the tops of the biggest tubes, and all of the sides of the shelf are open, just 4 posts, 1 in each corner supporting the shelf.
> think it needs more room?


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


>




Beautiful


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Beautiful


 
   
  Thanks! It looks even better at night with the lights turned off. Woo makes great sounding amps that look pretty impressive.
   
  How's my WA2 treating you?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Yesterday, Clayton SF so kindly asked, which three amps I wanted to hear during my upcoming visit in two weeks. The first one is easy, WA4 hands down! The next two, however, will require deeper thought...




Give the beta22 a try, bring your D7000. They are a perfect match.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give the beta22 a try, bring your D7000. They are a perfect match.


 

 Quick question, how's the noise floor with your B22 and your D7000s?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> HD-800.
> 
> the T1 is great with either amp as well, but can be a little on the harsh side with the WA6-SE at times.


 

 I noticed that the T1 could get harsh when using them with my SE as well.. though I think the SE is generally faster and more treble happy than the only other Woo I've had (the WA6). My Signature Pros can become a bit harsh, but less so than the T1. So far my favorite headphones are the Sig Pro and D7000 with the SE.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> I wish I could use some of that Fancy glass, I tend toward objectivity, being more of a PC geek, but I'd get fancy glass just for looks and the EML stuff looks good.
> Maybe I missed the boat on the WA22 and the Fancy glass, I ruled it out early in my selection process having researching the what and why of Balanced, even though my source can output balance, I figured I'd never dare to mutilate my headphone cables. I guess I just wasn't convinced.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


 


  Audio does seem to have a Power (supply) fetish, and rightfully so. While everything matters in Audio, two things that will define your efforts and what level your system will reside at - current, lower or upper levels - are clean power and isolation. Especially for Computer Audiophiles like moi!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give the beta22 a try, bring your D7000. They are a perfect match.


 


  Done and done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now requesting WA4 | Liquid Fire | Beta22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quick question, how's the noise floor with your B22 and your D7000s?


 

 From memory, very very low, almost totally darkness.  I sold my D7000 a week after I received the beta22 but I'm looking for another one after I got my D800.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Done and done!


 


  in two weeks?  too bad, i will be in sin city.  if it is in late may, i will join you guys.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> From memory, very very low, almost totally darkness.  I sold my D7000 a week after I received the beta22 but I'm looking for another one after I got my D800.


 

 That's good to know. Thanks.
   
  I'm assuming your gain on your B22 is 5?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> in two weeks?  too bad, i will be in sin city.  if it is in late may, i will join you guys.


 

 Look forward to receiving you in May as well! I've long been intrigued by the WA4 from pix... _at last!_


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> That's good to know. Thanks.
> 
> I'm assuming your gain on your B22 is 5?


 

 no, i went for the opposite for a 2x with 4x effective on balanced mode.  that is why it is very low noise floor, i never meant to use it to drive he6.  when i commission to build it, i have hd800, lcd2, d7000, and AT woodies so high gain is not necessary and my dec is quite hot with 5.8v out.
   
  i think my wa22 have a higher gain when using 5998 and 7236 tubes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> no, i went for the opposite for a 2x with 4x effective on balanced mode.  that is why it is very low noise floor, i never meant to use it to drive he6.  when i commission to buildit, i have hd800, lcd2, d7000, and AT woodies so high gain is not necessary and my dec is quite hot with 5.8v out.


 
   
  Explains the lack of a noise floor with the D7000s, but in balanced, it would be great for your HD800s and LCD-2s. Nice choice! Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Look forward to receiving you in May as well! I've long been intrigued by the WA4 from pix... _at last!_


 


  yes, i have been eying his wa4 and mini tori


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Explains the lack of a noise floor with the D7000s, but in balanced, it would be great for your HD800s and LCD-2s. Nice choice! Thanks.


 


  Corey did warns me on high gain beta22 may not have a very low noise floor on low impedance and high efficient phones.  Good thing I listen to him and totally trust his expertise on the amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just posted my akg k701 and dt 990 for sale.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Corey did warns me on high gain beta22 may not have a very low noise floor on low impedance and high efficient phones.  Good thing I listen to him and totally trust his expertise on the amp.


 

 Yep, Cory knows his stuff!


----------



## jc9394

Head's up, I may finally decide to part one pair of GEC 6AS7G to fund another money sucking hobby.  It is not set on stone yet but wants to give Woo owners a first dip.  One pair less than 10 hours with original box, straight brown based.  One pair around 100 hours with generic box, round brown based (super rare).


----------



## Silent One

Forget soup! Between Dubstep Girl & jc9394 enticing me,_ I may have to fast... _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yes, i have been eying his wa4 and mini tori


 







 I forgot about the mini torii!!! My pref for the WA4 is locked! Which of the remaining three amps would I want to demo thru the D7000's: LF; Beta22; Mini Torii for the final two slots?
   
  1. WA4
  2.
  3.


----------



## Sid-Fi

2) Liquid fire
  3) Beta 22
   
  you're welcome 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I forgot about the mini torii!!! My pref for the WA4 is locked! Which of the remaining three amps would I want to demo thru the D7000's: LF; Beta22; Mini Torii for the final two slots?
> 
> 1. WA4
> 2.
> 3.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> 2) Liquid fire
> 3) Beta 22
> 
> you're welcome


 







 That's all folks! Thanks, Sid-Fi...
   
  1. WooAudio WA4
  2. Cavalli Liquid Fire
  3. AMB [size=small]β22[/size]


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I forgot about the mini torii!!! My pref for the WA4 is locked! Which of the remaining three amps would I want to demo thru the D7000's: LF; Beta22; Mini Torii for the final two slots?
> 
> 1. WA4
> 2.
> 3.


 

 LF, I don't think Mini Torii is ideal for the D7k unless you feel they are somehow too analytical or dry.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Though the Torii is one of those amps you maybe want to try as you might not see another for awhile, if ever.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> LF, I don't think Mini Torii is ideal for the D7k unless you feel they are somehow too analytical or dry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, Anaxilus. I'll certainly hear the Mini Torii at a future date.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Woo audio has the two 6SN7s in series running on 12 volts so if one burns out the outher will not light. You may only have
> one bad tube.


 

 Worth investigating, Have tried searching for the Woo circuit diagrams online but understandably they probably keep the designs close to their chests.
   
  EDIT: Oh wow, this has got me thinking, if its a 12V supply and one was to rewire the circuit for parallel heaters, you could conceivably run 12SN7's.
   
  TSRP comes in 12SN7 and they are much cheaper than the 6SN7 variety. Anyone here ever thought about or modded their Woo to do this? (If its even possible?)


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Worth investigating, Have tried searching for the Woo circuit diagrams online but understandably they probably keep the designs close to their chests.


 
   
  I know.  I even asked for the specs to their transformers and never got a reply!!  Unbelievable!


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> *San Raal*, You way you describe it sounds dramatic the arcing you got, The amp just shrugged the incident off? "Pfttt, is that all you GOT?!")
> 
> Question for you champs. How do you folks manage your valve stock? Aside from rolling for flavour, do you do much rotation or do you pretty much run them in to the dirt then swap? I'm flogging the crap out some Woo supplied tubes for the warranty period, but I was thinking of swapping the stock tubes back and grinding them down to nothing (or until intolerable, but I don't know what that sounds like)


 

 Heh heh, the fuse blew, I replaced that, then replaced the Sophia 274b with the Shugang 274b vanilla (These tubes look cheap from the internal construction but sounded OK)  and it worked with no apparent ill effects - I was worried that my mains transformer may have been damaged but the fuse seems to have done its job.


----------



## davidio

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Hi Davidio,
> 
> I honestly don't know why my TSRP died when they did. I wouldn't want to speculate without concrete evidence. Please dont take that as an indication your Mullards will fail before their time!
> 
> ...


 
  San Raal,
  Thanks for the words of encouragement.  Brendan at Tube World assured me that the old ECC32s are very rugged, and that I should expect them to last several years under average use. 
   
  He also informed me that the cryo'ed tubes had no real claim to a longer life span, but that the process of freezing them actually improved the SQ and made the bass tighter and the mids more revealing.  Although, it seems to me that the reinforced molecular structure of the metal should make a tube stronger and thus longer lasting.  I wouldn't make any promises if I was selling cryo'ed tubes, either, because no two tubes are created equal.  One might last 8,000 hours and another 5,000.  We'll see!
   
  What made you settle on the Shuggie Treasures over NOS tubes?  I've heard conflicting reports about treasures...that they start out sounding like they are going to be stellar and then they settle into a more average SQ.  Others say they sound better than any of the respected NOS 6SN7s.  Also heard they settle into a darker, less revealing sound.  But I see they've updated the CV181-z to a newer model, with a "t" or something at the end, instead of "z."  What is your interpretation of their SQ with the Woo gear?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





davidio said:


> San Raal,
> Thanks for the words of encouragement.  Brendan at Tube World assured me that the old ECC32s are very rugged, and that I should expect them to last several years under average use.
> 
> He also informed me that the cryo'ed tubes had no real claim to a longer life span, but that the process *of freezing them actually improved the SQ and made the bass tighter and the mids more revealing.*  Although, it seems to me that the reinforced molecular structure of the metal should make a tube stronger and thus longer lasting.  I wouldn't make any promises if I was selling cryo'ed tubes, either, because no two tubes are created equal.  One might last 8,000 hours and another 5,000.  We'll see!
> ...


 

 I did a comparison of 6h30dr and cryo'ed 6h30dr when I had the DNA Sonnet.  To me, I can't tell the difference between the two.  they are both brought NOS and have around 50 hours on it when I compare them.  YMMV.
   
  EDIT, the ECC32 definitely a better tube than TS  6SN7 BGRP


----------



## jc9394

davidio, have you considered GEC B32?  I heard they are very good and better than TS BGRP but no one ever compare it to Mullard ECC32.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





davidio said:


> What made you settle on the Shuggie Treasures over NOS tubes?  I've heard conflicting reports about treasures...that they start out sounding like they are going to be stellar and then they settle into a more average SQ.  Others say they sound better than any of the respected NOS 6SN7s.  Also heard they settle into a darker, less revealing sound.  But I see they've updated the CV181-z to a newer model, with a "t" or something at the end, instead of "z."  What is your interpretation of their SQ with the Woo gear?


 

 The treasures play well with my cans, I have PS1000 and HD800, the slightly smoothed out highs help bring out the strength in the mid's on the PS1000 and the romantic lush mid's work nice on the HD800. The NOS Valvo 6SN7 I have, *just* beat the BT on tone, but have just a shade too much top end for my taste.
   
  I've not heard the Psvane's CV181 (the -t's) but the blurb on GF is that these are more along the lines of new production style 6SN7 going for a balanced presentation, whilst the Black Treasure was their interpretation of NOS. they describe them has having lush mids with a softer top.
   
  Damn - this thread is making me regret selling my ECC32's !


----------



## Ahzari

Has anyone tried these Full Music 274B rectifiers?


----------



## Xcalibur255

It has 4 amp heaters, not safe to use in a Woo amp.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> It has 4 amp heaters, not safe to use in a Woo amp.


 


  oh lol.. good to know.


----------



## dleblanc343

What's the better option between the WA6SE and WA2 for an HE500? Other gear I have are Schiit birfrost, and all audioquest interconnects (power cable, usb cable and rca-rca).
   
  I'm also planning on getting the HD800's in a few months since I get very good pricing on Sennheiser.
   
  I've tried the WA6SE and WA22 at the Montreal sound expo but going from the WA22 to the WA6SE didn't really leave me impressed with the latter.
   
  I'm assuming the WA2 would be the better choice but on baka's woo audio amp comparison thread it seems ppl prefer the wa6se to the wa2...
   
  Should of asked Jack Woo in person the other day when I met him in person >.< (and why no WA2 at his display??)


----------



## davidio

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did a comparison of 6h30dr and cryo'ed 6h30dr when I had the DNA Sonnet.  To me, I can't tell the difference between the two.  they are both brought NOS and have around 50 hours on it when I compare them.  YMMV.
> 
> EDIT, the ECC32 definitely a better tube than TS  6SN7 BGRP


 


 Interesting.  Hmmm.  Well, fortunately, the cryo'ed tubes I bought come out to roughly the same price...perhaps a difference of thirty bucks or so.


----------



## davidio

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> davidio, have you considered GEC B32?  I heard they are very good and better than TS BGRP but no one ever compare it to Mullard ECC32.


 

 No, never tried it.  Any info on the SQ?


----------



## hodgjy

The WA2 is an OTL amp, which is best with high impedance headphones.  OTL amps supply lots of volts, which high impedance headphones do well with, but do not supply lots of current.  The WA6 and WA6SE are transformer coupled amps, which work better with lower impedance headphones because the output transformer supplies better current, which low impedance headphones need.
   
  In the case of the HiFiMa HE500, on paper, the WA6SE is the best match.  As far as how they sound, only you can determine which sounds best to your ears.  On paper, the WA2 isn't a good match, but in reality it may be music to your ears.
  
  Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> What's the better option between the WA6SE and WA2 for an HE500? Other gear I have are Schiit birfrost, and all audioquest interconnects (power cable, usb cable and rca-rca).
> 
> I'm also planning on getting the HD800's in a few months since I get very good pricing on Sennheiser.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ahzari

hodgjy said:


> The WA2 is an OTL amp, which is best with high impedance headphones.  OTL amps supply lots of volts, which high impedance headphones do well with, but do not supply lots of current.  The WA6 and WA6SE are transformer coupled amps, which work better with lower impedance headphones because the output transformer supplies better current, which low impedance headphones need.
> 
> In the case of the HiFiMa HE500, on paper, the WA6SE is the best match.  As far as how they sound, only you can determine which sounds best to your ears.  On paper, the WA2 isn't a good match, but in reality it may be music to your ears.




Agree the wa6se is the best match on paper. Actually one of the reasons I returned my wa6 for the wa6se was so I could really drive planar headphones - if I ever chose to get a pair... I personally wasn't crazy about the he500 but the SE provided ample power for the headphones (never got a chance to try it with the wa6). the way I saw it the SE model was more upgrade proof, but now I'm thinking about the WA5LE so I guess it wasn't upgrade proof enough haha.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





davidio said:


> No, never tried it.  Any info on the SQ?


 


  No, never tried myself but the OP dannie01 have a pair and said it is better than NU 6F8G and TS BGRP.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> What's the better option between the WA6SE and WA2 for an HE500? Other gear I have are Schiit birfrost, and all audioquest interconnects (power cable, usb cable and rca-rca).
> 
> I'm also planning on getting the HD800's in a few months since I get very good pricing on Sennheiser.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  What headphone and source is feeding the WA22?  When I compared 6SE and WA22 (stock, not mines) during a meet with HD800 and source is DacMagic, I can tell the difference that makes me skip the SE and go straight to WA22.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What headphone and source is feeding the WA22?  When I compared 6SE and WA22 (stock, not mines) during a meet with HD800 and source is DacMagic, I can tell the difference that makes me skip the SE and go straight to WA22.


 


  ^ This.
   
  FWIW, between the WA2 and WA6SE for the HE-500s, I'd go for the latter (WA6SE).


----------



## jc9394

Fair enough, I never tried any HE series.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Fair enough, I never tried any HE series.


 

 But, if one could stretch their budget, I'd go for the WA22 with the HE-500s (and a very good balanced source too).


----------



## dleblanc343

What I compared the the 1900$ WA22 and the WA6SE. I tried the WA22 first and was really impressed, so when I tried the WA6SE it left me somewhat uninterested. But I'm shopping for something under 1500$ for the HE500's and soon to be HD800's; so scratch the WA22. I've tried the WA6SE but so briefly that I can't remember much of it, and never tried the WA2 which interests me very much.
   
  So people really do seem to prefer the wa6se with the hifiman, but what about it vs the wa2 with the HD800's? If I'm going to own both the HE500 and HD800's, which amp would be the best compromise?
  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What headphone and source is feeding the WA22?  When I compared 6SE and WA22 (stock, not mines) during a meet with HD800 and source is DacMagic, I can tell the difference that makes me skip the SE and go straight to WA22.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> What I compared the the 1900$ WA22 and the WA6SE. I tried the WA22 first and was really impressed, so when I tried the WA6SE it left me somewhat uninterested. But I'm shopping for something under 1500$ for the HE500's and soon to be HD800's; so scratch the WA22. I've tried the WA6SE but so briefly that I can't remember much of it, and never tried the WA2 which interests me very much.
> 
> So people really do seem to prefer the wa6se with the hifiman, but what about it vs the wa2 with the HD800's? If I'm going to own both the HE500 and HD800's, which amp would be the best compromise?


 

 Did you miss his comments about the source? What was the source? With the right tube setup, there was nothing that the WA6SE/WA2 could compete with the WA22 (and the good transparent balanced source).


----------



## dleblanc343

I'm not sure exactly, I stopped by the Woo audio booth literally 20 minutes before I had to make it to work. I just went to buy a headphone stand and tell him to visit our store (so I could propose to the manager to carry his products). I just took 10 minutes to try out some amps. He was playing music from a computer, they were vinyl rips in 192. Didn't check out the dacs. Tried the hd800's and lcd2's.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Did you miss his comments about the source? What was the source? With the right tube setup, there was nothing that the WA6SE/WA2 could compete with the WA22 (and the good transparent balanced source).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I'm not sure exactly, I stopped by the Woo audio booth literally 20 minutes before I had to make it to work. I just went to buy a headphone stand and tell him to visit our store (so I could propose to the manager to carry his products). I just took 10 minutes to try out some amps. He was playing music from a computer, they were vinyl rips in 192. Didn't check out the dacs. Tried the hd800's and lcd2's.


 

 That's the main issue with setting up the WA22, a good transparent AND balanced source is a MUST. Otherwise, it's improvements over the WA2/WA6SE can be muted.


----------



## dleblanc343

Anyways, it sounded much greater than the WA6SE, but I'm not even thinking about the WA22, way out of my budget for my age. So i'm sticking to either WA6SE or WA2. What's the best option if I will end up with both HE500/HD800. For now I have the schiit lyr and some audioquest interconnects. Nothing cheap per say besides my current amp, hence the need to upgrade.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Anyways, it sounded much greater than the WA6SE, but I'm not even thinking about the WA22, way out of my budget for my age. So i'm sticking to either WA6SE or WA2. What's the best option if I will end up with both HE500/HD800. For now I have the schiit lyr and some audioquest interconnects. Nothing cheap per say besides my current amp, hence the need to upgrade.


 


  To drive BOTH the HE-500 and HD800, I'd recommend the WA6SE over the WA2. The WA2 wouldn't be ideal for the HE-500s.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2 is amazing for the HD 800. but the WA6-SE is just as good. 
   
  they both bring out the best in the HD 800 with the WA6-SE being punchier and slightly more bright and cheery than the WA2.
   
  the WA2 is smoother and more laid back with the HD 800.
   
   
  the HE-500s definitely will need the WA6-SE to sound their best. my friend has that exact combo and loves it.


----------



## dleblanc343

Cool! Thanks man. Btw, you helped me out when I started out here on head-fi last year. I remember the fly by night pic and you being canadian . I've come a long way in less than a year ahaha


----------



## cacatalysis

FYI there is one WA22 on sale for $1600.  I have no connection with the seller.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^^
   
  Yes you have...this place is sinister to one's finances.


----------



## jc9394

cacatalysis said:


> FYI there is one WA22 on sale for $1600.  I have no connection with the seller.




Not sure why isn't sold yet, maybe the economy? WA22 does not come up for ale a lot.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hell i'd buy it tbh, but i don't have balanced cables or source.


----------



## cacatalysis

FYI, I tried a cheap sylvania 5Y3G with TS5998 and TS6F8G today, and I could not believe how good the HD800 sounds from WA22.  This combo is on par or even better, with TS5998/TS BGRP/EML5U4G.  Have you (or anybody else) tried a 5Y3  in WA22?  I was very surprised.  I could not find any impression of 5Y3 with WA22 on head-fi.


----------



## cacatalysis

Your PS Audio link III is a perfect source for WA22.  That is what I use for my WA22.  You only need a balanced cable and IC.  According to Glenn, you only need a balanced IC.  Sale your WA6 SE and get the WA22. 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hell i'd buy it tbh, but i don't have balanced cables or source.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Your PS Audio link III is a perfect source for WA22.  That is what I use for my WA22.  You only need a balanced cable and IC.  According to Glenn, you only need a balanced IC.  Sale your WA6 SE and get the WA22.


 

 I seem to remember some older DLIIIs with only unbalanced outs. I owned the DLIII a few years back and it had both.


----------



## jc9394

cacatalysis said:


> FYI, I tried a cheap sylvania 5Y3G with TS5998 and TS6F8G today, and I could not believe how good the HD800 sounds from WA22.  This combo is on par or even better, with TS5998/TS BGRP/EML5U4G.  Have you (or anybody else) tried a 5Y3  in WA22?  I was very surprised.  I could not find any impression of 5Y3 with WA22 on head-fi.




The best cheap combo I tried is TS7236, NU 6F8G, and Mullard GZ37



dubstep girl said:


> hell i'd buy it tbh, but i don't have balanced cables or source.




There is a DacMagic for sale too.


----------



## cacatalysis

My best cheap combo is Sylvania 7236/RCA 6F8G/596 for HD800.  I also have TS 7236 and NU 6F8G, both are more expensive to get.  TS7236 is a little bit better.  I like the TS7236/NU6F8G/GZ34(mullard) combo for my HD650.  In general 6F8G/GZ34 is a good combination for HD650.  Never heard a GZ37, should have bought the one on sale by Golfnutz a while ago.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> My best cheap combo is Sylvania 7236/RCA 6F8G/596 for HD800.  I also have TS 7236 and NU 6F8G, both are more expensive to get.  TS7236 is a little bit better.  I like the TS7236/NU6F8G/GZ34(mullard) combo for my HD650.  In general 6F8G/GZ34 is a good combination for HD650.  Never heard a GZ37, should have bought the one on sale by Golfnutz a while ago.


 

 Cheap? I'll give you cheap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The fuse in my _6 Special Edition_ cost more than the '596.'


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> FYI, I tried a cheap sylvania 5Y3G with TS5998 and TS6F8G today, and I could not believe how good the HD800 sounds from WA22.  This combo is on par or even better, with TS5998/TS BGRP/EML5U4G.  _*Have you (or anybody else) tried a 5Y3  in WA22? *_ I was very surprised.  _*I could not find any impression of 5Y3 with WA22 on head-fi.      *_


 

 A 5Y3 in my WA22? Of course I have. I was outed by Xcalibur255 using a 5Y3 in my WA22 in May of last year! The eagle eye!

 Oh the shame, NOT!
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/10185#post_7489417


----------



## Xcalibur255

I can't believe you can even use a 5Y3 in a WA22, they have pretty modest DC current output capabilities.  If the 6AS7s were running at full plate current they would murder a 5Y3.


----------



## cacatalysis

Have you found a good source for 596?  I bought three from Golfnutz.  I am still looking for a Sophia Princess 274B mesh for my collection.  If anybody is interested in, I am offering a Mullard GZ34 plus a 596 for the swap.


----------



## cacatalysis

I only use the 5Y3 with 5998.  It has been more than 10 hours, nothing bad has happened yet.


----------



## Xcalibur255

That would be the easier burden for a 5Y3, since the 5998 will be drawing less current.  I'm not suggesting the tube isn't safe, as it is on the approved tube list, it just gives some insight into how conservatively the output tubes are run in the amp.  If you are using 5998 or expensive GECs that can be considered a good thing since they'll last much longer.


----------



## cacatalysis

You should give it a try, but not with the TS BGRP.  I do not know why, but the TS 6F8G is much better vs TS BGRP when paired with 5998 and 5Y3.  I also have RCA 5Y3, have not tried it yet.
   
  Quote:


clayton sf said:


> A 5Y3 in my WA22? Of course I have. I was outed by Xcalibur255 using a 5Y3 in my WA22 in May of last year! The eagle eye!
> 
> Oh the shame, NOT!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/10185#post_7489417


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Have you found a good source for 596?  I bought three from Golfnutz.  I am still looking for a Sophia Princess 274B mesh for my collection.  If anybody is interested in, I am offering a Mullard GZ34 plus a 596 for the swap.


 

 I had intended to buy 6 additional USAF-596's when I fell a bit under the weather at the time. And completely forgot about them the days following. Now, I'm counting on buying one from you as a backup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Still searching high and low to no avail...


----------



## cacatalysis

You mean GEC 6AS7G?  They are on my list to try with 5Y3.  Do you mean it is not safe to try 5Y3 with 7236 or other 6AS7s
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That would be the easier burden for a 5Y3, since the 5998 will be drawing less current.  I'm not suggesting the tube isn't safe, as it is on the approved tube list, it just gives some insight into how conservatively the output tubes are run in the amp.  If you are using 5998 or expensive GECs that can be considered a good thing since they'll last much longer.


----------



## cacatalysis

No problem.  Do you use 596 also in your new amp from Glenn, how many?
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I had intended to buy 6 additional USAF-596's when I fell a bit under the weather at the time. And completely forgot about them the days following. Now, I'm counting on buying one from you as a backup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah my DLIII has balanced.
   
  so if i was to have a balanced source for the WA22, would i need balanced headphones?
   
  or how much better is WA22 from WA6-SE with single ended?
   
  i would have upgraded tubes, keeping my sophia 274b and sylvania 7236 for the WA22 and only buying 6sn7.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> You mean GEC 6AS7G?  They are on my list to try with 5Y3.  Do you mean it is not safe to try 5Y3 with 7236 or other 6AS7s


 

 I'm sure it's okay with all of them or it wouldn't be on the list, but a 5Y3 will be asked to deliver more current for a 6AS7 than it will for a 5998 or 7236 which will affect its lifespan.


----------



## cacatalysis

I do have a few of them, both RCA and Sylvania.  The sylvania 5Y3 is better than 596 in the combo I mentioned, gives a very good base while tame the brightness without lossing the detail or soundstage.  596 could be a little bit aggressive in comparison.


----------



## cacatalysis

According to Glenn, you may not need balanced headphones to get the full benefit from WA22 as long as you have balanced source.  I already have balanced headphones before I saw Glenn's comments.  I have never heard a WA6-SE.  For HD800, it is very hard to beat WA22 with right combos of tubes, it does not have to be expensive combos. 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah my DLIII has balanced.
> 
> so if i was to have a balanced source for the WA22, would i need balanced headphones?
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> That's the main issue with setting up the WA22, a good transparent AND balanced source is a MUST. Otherwise, it's improvements over the WA2/WA6SE can be muted.


 
   
  Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Anyways, it sounded much greater than the WA6SE, but I'm not even thinking about the WA22, way out of my budget for my age. So i'm sticking to either WA6SE or WA2. What's the best option if I will end up with both HE500/HD800. For now I have the schiit lyr and some audioquest interconnects. Nothing cheap per say besides my current amp, hence the need to upgrade.


 
   

 I would agree that the WA22's advantages can be subdued if you're not using a balanced source. But I would say that it's still a better match for these two headphones together than either the 6SE or WA2 would be individually.
   
  Also, in my experience certain headphones respond much better to balanced cabling than others. As a general rule of thumb though, go for headphones that have modular cable connections (duh!).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> No problem.  Do you use 596 also in your new amp from Glenn, how many?


 

 My amp uses a single rectifier - mainly the GE 3DG4 but I rotate the '596' in now and then. I see a higher-end Woo in my future, but meanwhile I need a backup. I love the very distinct sound glass makes when it breaks, but only when done intentionally.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmmm...wow now i really want a WA22....
   
  and what needs to be balanced? just my DAC output?
   
  i would have
   
  Bitperfect from J River Media Center >>> Musical Fidelity V-Link (USB/SPDIF Converter) >>> COAX/OPTICAL  >>>> DAC >>> Balanced out to WA22? is that it?
   
   
  and would you guys all say a WA22 is for sure better than a WA6SE then?
   
   
  i could get a balanced Cable for my LCD-2 / HD 800 but would have to stay single ended on the T1/ D7000 /RS1.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> I do have a few of them, both RCA and Sylvania.  The sylvania 5Y3 is better than 596 in the combo I mentioned, gives a very good base while tame the brightness without lossing the detail or soundstage.  596 could be a little bit aggressive in comparison.


 


  A little bit aggressive? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I couldn't relax the first time I paired the '596' with TS-BGRP's inside the Woo. The rectifier walked ALL over the drive tubes... _"No no no, you're suppose to dance together!"_ I'd bark!!! It took a couple of cable swaps to prevent further assaults. They eventually went on to become quite the pairing!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmmm...wow now i really want a WA22....
> 
> and what needs to be balanced? just my DAC output?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup, you just need a pair of XLR cables and you're good. Think of the WA22 as giving you that OTL goodness (it's not OTL, but very euphonic) you like out of your WA2, combined with the added current/punch of the 6SE.
   
  And then double the power because it's balanced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




_(not really)_
   
  Note: this was pretty much the opposite of a technical/factual explanation, as I've never heard a WA2, WA6SE, T1, RS1, or a D7000. But yeah, for sure


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Aggressive is the word that I am coming to use as well. It really pushes the envelope, but in a good way.
   
  I've got a couple of driver pairings in mind, including the TSRP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




; any hints


----------



## Ahzari

So the 5Y3GTs are good rectifiers? they have several pretty cheap selling on Ebay, I might just try me one if thats the case...


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> Thanks! It looks even better at night with the lights turned off. Woo makes great sounding amps that look pretty impressive.
> 
> How's my WA2 treating you?




Its a terrific amp. I listen to it everyday. Rocking along to Seal _Killer_ right now. From where it's placed I get to see GolfNutz' 5998 heaters perfectly. Couldn't ask for more. 

Here is my view when the lights are off and the WA2 is glowing 


Enjoyed your article on Innerfidelity. Will you be working with Tyll on the upcoming amp testing?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wish i could sell my WA6-SE and WA2. i would like totally buy that WA22 right now...
   
  i'd have to sell both pretty quickly though, and for a good price, close to the sale price. 
   
  now i want that WA22....bad...lol


----------



## emremusic

This place is bad for your wallet. It can make you totally want something, and convince you that it's better when you haven't even heard it. 
  I know it's been the case for me at least. I just wanted to buy a WA6. Then I come here, and after reading few posts, l felt like I just had to buy 6SE and its upgrades. 
   
  I was also wondering about something, I would be happy if some one could inform me...
   
  It's been told many times on this forum, and by Jack to me in his email: You have to have a balanced source for the WA22. If not, 6SE is the "superior" amp. 
   
  How can a balanced source make that much of a difference in sound? I thought the idea of balanced cable was to prevent interference or noise from very long cables in live situations. If we are not dealing with long cables, what is the point of having balanced outs on a computer dac? 
   
  Instead of superiority, can these two amps be thought of as different characters, like WA22: euphonic, 6se: fast dynamic and SS like.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wish i could sell my WA6-SE and WA2. i would like totally buy that WA22 right now...
> 
> i'd have to sell both pretty quickly though, and for a good price, close to the sale price.
> 
> now i want that WA22....bad...lol


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> This place is bad for your wallet. It can make you totally want something, and convince you that it's better when you haven't even heard it.
> I know it's been the case for me at least. I just wanted to buy a WA6. Then I come here, and after reading few posts, l felt like I just had to buy 6SE and its upgrades.
> 
> I was also wondering about something, I would be happy if some one could inform me...
> ...


 

 same thing is constantly happening to me, and I think several others.. head-fi a beautiful curse.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> This place is bad for your wallet. It can make you totally want something, and convince you that it's better when you haven't even heard it.
> I know it's been the case for me at least. I just wanted to buy a WA6. Then I come here, and after reading few posts, l felt like I just had to buy 6SE and its upgrades.
> 
> I was also wondering about something, I would be happy if some one could inform me...
> ...


 

 Power, baby! Complimented by common mode rejection by way of balanced design. Also, without a balanced source you'd be only using half an amp in the WA22. And if that's the case, you might as well save $$$ and get the _6 Special Edition_. Looking at my DAC, it has an output voltage of 2.6v, but balanced output yields 5.2v. Luckily for me, Wyred4Sound has a fully internal balanced DAC, so even single-ended users benefit from common mode rejection. 
   
  Also, the demands placed on the two power supplies should allow for more efficient handling of tricky passages, resulting in better sound. SE amps can and do sound good, but it still comes back to power - quality, quantity and isolation in my view.


----------



## emremusic

Silent One...
   
  Besides upgrading to D7000's, I also would like to upgrade to my source: the apogee duet (1st version)
   
  I was thinking about Bifrost.. but Do you have any suggestions for dacs that are below $1000 for my 6SE?? (My max is 1500 for both new headphones and new source)
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Power, baby! Complimented by common mode rejection by way of balanced design. Also, without a balanced source you'd be only using half an amp in the WA22. And if that's the case, you might as well save $$$ and get the _6 Special Edition_. Looking at my DAC, it has an output voltage of 2.6v, but balanced output yields 5.2v. Luckily for me, Wyred4Sound has a fully internal balanced DAC, so even single-ended users benefit from common mode rejection.
> 
> Also, the demands placed on the two power supplies should allow for more efficient handling of tricky passages, resulting in better sound. SE amps can and do sound good, but it still comes back to power - quality, quantity and isolation in my view.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Silent One...
> 
> Besides upgrading to D7000's, I also would like to upgrade to my source: the apogee duet (1st version)
> 
> I was thinking about Bifrost.. but Do you have any suggestions for dacs that are below $1000 for my 6SE?? (My max is 1500 for both new headphones and new source)


 

 Absolutely no idea about Bitfrost. (grokit, I know you're still awake, weigh-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Are you thinking about maybe recording and playback through the Mac/Duet setup? Have you looked at the Duet 2? Because DAC's are proliferating, I'd seek to get a premium DAC Pre-Owned if possible. Strong recommendations aren't coming to me at this hour. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But now that we all know you're in the hunt...


----------



## grokit

Hmm, I've been following the Bifrost and the reviews are certainly glowing, but the Schiit FOTM period can be brutal. The only criticism that seems to come up is it doesn't quite fill in the low end as much as it could, but this is always disputed and then the claims of burn-in come along to fix it right up. But everyone seems to agree that it punches way above its weight class with incredible instrument separation and detail, as would be expected by the philosophy of the company and the pedigree of their designer (Mike @ Theta Digital).
   
  Personally I am interested in upgrading from my DAC/converter setup (which is also a real heavy-hitter for its price) at some point, and am waiting for impressions to roll in on Woo's new offering, as well as the upcoming Schiit mid-grade balanced DAC. Others that I have found to be interesting for my needs are the new Audiolab M-DAC, and the Anedio D2. The M-DAC and balanced Schiit is/will be in a more attractive price bracket than the other two, and I am a value hound at heart. But that new Woo stack, from what I have seen the attention to detail is amazing. I must resist the pre-order deal!
   
  If I didn't need balanced outputs, the Marantz SA-8004 SACD/DAC could be an option, as there's one in the trade forums right now that was recently reduced to $850.


----------



## grokit

Almost forgot why I wandered over here... for those of you having a hard time deciding between the WA6SE and the WA2, there has been some relevant activity in just the comparison thread lately:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/555749/sibling-rivalry-the-woo-wa2-vs-the-woo-wa6se-review-posted-update-6-3-2011/120#post_8238332


----------



## hodgjy

There are a few people here that could recable them for you if you wanted.  I'm not affiliated with this guy, but Zombie_X isn't too far away from you (Milwaukee), and he's a member of the trade.  He does recabling and could convert things to balanced for you.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> but would have to stay single ended on the T1/ D7000 /RS1.


----------



## roadster-s

Hi all, new head-fi'er here. I just stepped into the headphone world on a more serious basis recently, after having owned a set of Senn HD570 for the last dozen years or so. I now have a new Woo WA6-SE on order as well as a set of HD800's. I stopped my search on this combo after spending some quality time with Jack at the Montrreal AV show last week. Great guy, passionate about his art. The AV show gave me the opportunity to try out several headphone/amp combos, all with their own signature, but in the end this one fit my needs perfectly. I'll be running everything in stock form for a while and upgrade tubes and headphone cable later on.
   
  I'll be running a Sony XA5400ES as transport with an EE Minimax DAC Plus (upgraded with a Psvane Grade A tube that improved the sound considerably), going to the Woo. I ordered the amp with loop out option to hook up into my Marantz AV7005, since the whole thing is part of my home theater set-up. Cables are all Better cables Silver Serpent thoughout my system, except for speakers. I'll be posting pictures as soon as everything comes in.
   
  BTW, thanks to all of you, this forum has been essential in helping learn more about headphones and amps. In the end, my ears closed the deal.


----------



## lyricsuite

Woo Audio WEE - Issues! [ALSO POSTED IN THE MAIN STAX THREAD - I"M PRETTY CONFIDENT IT CAN'T BE A GROUND HUM ISSUE]
   
  I haven't contributed much here despite lurking for a long time, but thought it would be useful to share my WOO experiences and to ask for any help the forum could give. I paid for a WEE with normal and pro bias sockets back in December. The first unit I received had something seriously wrong and buzzed loudly, so it went back across the Atlantic (I'm in the UK) and was 'repaired'. The repaired unit still hummed (but much more quietly) and following an exchange with Jack it eventually went back a second time, when I was told Woo could detect no fault. It's now _finally_ back in the UK and the issue is as follows:
   
  I have _no_ hum from any other equipment (Stax 4070, 407, and original Lambda, SRM-T1S and SRD 7 Mk2)
  Woo WEE hums from pro bias port (loudest on 407, and only slightly audible on the less sensitive 4070, there may be hum on the normal bias port, but the level is too low to be of concern)
  Woo WEE hums when connected to sources (amplifiers from Merdian and Naim) _and when running completely by itself_
  Hum is not volume dependent and is a harmonic of 50Hz power
  Hum only occurs when the unit is switched on to 'star' (i.e. when running bias power)
   
  I have tried the unit in three different locations and think it may have been quieter in one, so do wonder whether there is a mains issue to which it is super sensitive...
   
*Woo will not help any further at this point* (and have treated me like some sort of idiot, which doesn't seem very characteristic). I am a professional musician with 25+ years of recording experience and have never had a problem with my audio gear... 
   
  Any advice would be very welcome!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Hi all, new head-fi'er here. I just stepped into the headphone world on a more serious basis recently, after having owned a set of Senn HD570 for the last dozen years or so. I now have a new Woo WA6-SE on order as well as a set of HD800's. I stopped my search on this combo after spending some quality time with Jack at the Montrreal AV show last week. Great guy, passionate about his art. The AV show gave me the opportunity to try out several headphone/amp combos, all with their own signature, but in the end this one fit my needs perfectly. I'll be running everything in stock form for a while and upgrade tubes and headphone cable later on.
> 
> I'll be running a Sony XA5400ES as transport with an EE Minimax DAC Plus (upgraded with a Psvane Grade A tube that improved the sound considerably), going to the Woo. I ordered the amp with loop out option to hook up into my Marantz AV7005, since the whole thing is part of my home theater set-up. Cables are all Better cables Silver Serpent thoughout my system, except for speakers. I'll be posting pictures as soon as everything comes in.
> 
> BTW, thanks to all of you, this forum has been essential in helping learn more about headphones and amps. In the end, my ears closed the deal.


 
   
  What a great first post, welcome! Now that you have found your Bliss, don't be a stranger


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

On the subject of this place being bad for your wallet. I concur, Weeks ago I purchased the T1 for the WA2 based on this thread. I was happy with my low impedance Grado made Alessandro MS pro damn it. H.A.P.P.Y.
  I figured I would never post on the subject of WA2 and T1 out my sense of shame. Also. I hate you guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm gonna listen to my T1s and then cry myself to sleep. 
   
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Good thing the fuse blew like it was supposed to. Still seems a shame you had a premium tube go gassy.
   
  Quote: 





san raal said:


> Heh heh, the fuse blew, I replaced that, then replaced the Sophia 274b with the Shugang 274b vanilla (These tubes look cheap from the internal construction but sounded OK)  and it worked with no apparent ill effects - I was worried that my mains transformer may have been damaged but the fuse seems to have done its job.


 
   
  That pick looks great, 5998 being as rare as hen's teeth, I stopped trying to even look lol. But wow, I'd settle for some big bottle 6AS7 that look like that.

  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Its a terrific amp. I listen to it everyday. Rocking along to Seal _Killer_ right now. From where it's placed I get to see GolfNutz' 5998 heaters perfectly. Couldn't ask for more.
> Here is my view when the lights are off and the WA2 is glowing
> 
> Enjoyed your article on Innerfidelity. Will you be working with Tyll on the upcoming amp testing?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> On the subject of this place being bad for your wallet. I concur, Weeks ago I purchased the T1 for the WA2 based on this thread. I was happy with my low impedance Grado made Alessandro MS pro damn it. H.A.P.P.Y.
> *I figured I would never post on the subject of WA2 and T1 out my sense of shame. Also. I hate you guys.*
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My response... _in stereo. _


----------



## emremusic

I have a very quite hum coming from my amp, but nothing I can hear while I'm using the amp. (It's softer than the noise coming from my external hard rive)
   
  Some soft hum is expected, and not abnormal. It does not affect the sound quality.
   
   
  How loud is your amp humming?
  Quote: 





lyricsuite said:


> Woo Audio WEE - Issues! [ALSO POSTED IN THE MAIN STAX THREAD - I"M PRETTY CONFIDENT IT CAN'T BE A GROUND HUM ISSUE]
> 
> I haven't contributed much here despite lurking for a long time, but thought it would be useful to share my WOO experiences and to ask for any help the forum could give. I paid for a WEE with normal and pro bias sockets back in December. The first unit I received had something seriously wrong and buzzed loudly, so it went back across the Atlantic (I'm in the UK) and was 'repaired'. The repaired unit still hummed (but much more quietly) and following an exchange with Jack it eventually went back a second time, when I was told Woo could detect no fault. It's now _finally_ back in the UK and the issue is as follows:
> 
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

There has been a lot of talk on this thread over the last few pages regarding the importance of a transparent and balanced source for the WA22.
   
  Does anyone have an idea of how well my Audio-gd NFB10-WM will do in this role for my incoming WA22? It is a fully balanced DAC with XLR outputs, as well as a fully balanced amp, which I will be promptly ignoring when the Woo gets here. I already have Moon Audio Silver Dragon XLR interconnects waiting. I noticed though that the tradeoff for my NFB10-WM is that it has only one power supply instead of the two found on the dedicated DAC models to separate the power from digital and analog parts.


----------



## 188479

Quote: 





> going to the Woo. I ordered the amp with loop out option to hook up into my Marantz AV7005, since the whole thing is part of my home theater set-up


 
   
  Hello:
   
  Can somebody please explain what this option is on the WA6SE?  Seems like a preamp out...but Jack told me this was not an option on the 6SE.  Thanks!


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hello:
> 
> Can somebody please explain what this option is on the WA6SE?  Seems like a preamp out...but Jack told me this was not an option on the 6SE.  Thanks!


 


 Yes it is a preamp out and it is indeed an option on the SE, the purpose obviously being to create the shortest path from your source or DAC. When the Woo/headphones aren't used, the signal simply travels through the loop out into your system preamp for speaker use.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hmm, I've been following the Bifrost and the reviews are certainly glowing, but the Schiit FOTM period can be brutal. The only criticism that seems to come up is it doesn't quite fill in the low end as much as it could, but this is always disputed and then the claims of burn-in come along to fix it right up. But everyone seems to agree that it punches way above its weight class with incredible instrument separation and detail, as would be expected by the philosophy of the company and the pedigree of their designer (Mike @ Theta Digital).
> 
> Personally I am interested in upgrading from my DAC/converter setup (which is also a real heavy-hitter for its price) at some point, and am waiting for impressions to roll in on Woo's new offering, as well as the upcoming Schiit mid-grade balanced DAC. Others that I have found to be interesting for my needs are the new Audiolab M-DAC, and the Anedio D2. The M-DAC and balanced Schiit is/will be in a more attractive price bracket than the other two, and I am a value hound at heart. But that new Woo stack, from what I have seen the attention to detail is amazing. I must resist the pre-order deal!
> 
> If I didn't need balanced outputs, the Marantz SA-8004 SACD/DAC could be an option, as there's one in the trade forums right now that was recently reduced to $850.


 

 DAC upgrade is probably the next major purchase for me too, after the dust settles from amp purchases and I finally buy a new headphone to use with it.  I figure by then Wyred4Sound will have a new model out since I've had my eye on the current ones for quite some time.  I must say, though, I have never once felt my Channel Islands VDA-2 to be a weak link in my system so the urge to move on is pretty mild.  Someday it will anchor a secondary speaker setup instead......... someday.  Ironically enough thanks to the extreme value of the OTL amp it is once again the most expensive piece of gear in the system.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Its a terrific amp. I listen to it everyday. Rocking along to Seal _Killer_ right now. From where it's placed I get to see GolfNutz' 5998 heaters perfectly. Couldn't ask for more.
> Here is my view when the lights are off and the WA2 is glowing
> 
> Enjoyed your article on Innerfidelity. Will you be working with Tyll on the upcoming amp testing?


 

 Nice! Glad you're enjoying that bad boy. One great amp and I loved it with my HD800s and T1s. Funny I loved the TS5998s with the WA2, but I didn't seem to get along with them too much on my WA22.
   
  Thanks for the kind comments about my innerfidelity.com article. Tyll did all the heavy lifting with actually running the experiments. I was always curious about headphone measurements and now I have a better feeling of what perspective to put them in. I've talked to Tyll about trying other headphones as well as the article really just used the HD800s and as mentioned, some of the least affected headphones with regards to head placement that Tyll's found.


----------



## Austin Morrow

So, I think I'm going to settle on an HD800 + WA6SE + DAC HD cable for a little while until I have room to upgrade.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So, I think I'm going to settle on an HD800 + WA6SE + DAC HD cable for a little while until I have room to upgrade.


 


  Promising-
   
_WooAudio WA6 Special Edition... I like that in a start!_


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hello:
> 
> Can somebody please explain what this option is on the WA6SE?  Seems like a preamp out...but Jack told me this was not an option on the 6SE.  Thanks!


 

 The pre-amp option is a switch on the back of the amp and an extra set of RCA outputs on the back...      Its pretty nice...   when you want to listen to headphones you put the switch for the front output ( headphones )  when you want to use the Woo as a pre-amp, flip the switch and the out-put is now out of the extra RCA outputs... to drive another amp or powered speakers...
   
  A good upgrade option...


----------



## emremusic

I wish I had known about this upgrade option. When did it become available?
  Quote: 





dixter said:


> The pre-amp option is a switch on the back of the amp and an extra set of RCA outputs on the back...      Its pretty nice...   when you want to listen to headphones you put the switch for the front output ( headphones )  when you want to use the Woo as a pre-amp, flip the switch and the out-put is now out of the extra RCA outputs... to drive another amp or powered speakers...
> 
> A good upgrade option...


----------



## lyricsuite

Thanks for the reply. The hum is quite quiet, but noticeable enough even in quite music it annoys me!
   
  Cheers.
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I have a very quite hum coming from my amp, but nothing I can hear while I'm using the amp. (It's softer than the noise coming from my external hard rive)
> 
> Some soft hum is expected, and not abnormal. It does not affect the sound quality.
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> DAC upgrade is probably the next major purchase for me too, after the dust settles from amp purchases and I finally buy a new headphone to use with it.  I figure by then Wyred4Sound will have a new model out since I've had my eye on the current ones for quite some time.  *I must say, though, I have never once felt my Channel Islands VDA-2 to be a weak link in my system so the urge to move on is pretty mild.*  Someday it will anchor a secondary speaker setup instead......... someday.  Ironically enough thanks to the extreme value of the OTL amp it is once again the most expensive piece of gear in the system.


 

 I feel the same way about my Mini-i/Bravo combo so I'm in no hurry either. My feelings were recently validated when PanamaRed offered a rare comparison to a known quantity:
   
  Quote: 





panamared said:


> For sale is the Matrix Mini DAC w/ Remote
> 
> *This is an exceptional DAC. It rivals that of my W4S DAC-2.*
> 
> -snip-


 
   
  This made me feel good because I haven't had a chance to audition anything in that price class yet as far as DACs go. And even better because he doesn't even qualify it with a USB to S/PDIF converter, which definitely brought great improvement to my ears over direct USB and to a lesser extent optical. Of course he could have had it hooked up via coax to a CD transport in which case he wouldn't need a converter. The other thing was that it looks like it sold on the same day he listed it. Anybody looking for a decent balanced DAC could do a lot worse for the $. The dual (for the balanced outputs) AD1955 chips have been installed in some really high-end DACs. Hopefully when I do eventually upgrade, I will feel that it was worth it. My fear is that I will just get something different so more of a side-grade than an improvement.

  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So, I think I'm going to settle on an HD800 + WA6SE + DAC HD cable for a little while until I have room to upgrade.


 

 I'm really looking forward to hearing your impressions on that DAC HD cable. It was an extremely low-key product release, but it really seems to be gathering some steam now. If I was looking at the Bifrost I would be seriously considering whether I need the additional inputs, as they are pretty close in price when you consider the USB upgrade and some HQ cables.


----------



## grokit

Just announced, the Schiit Gunginer balanced DAC:
   

   
  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=11
   
  They also announced a balanced SS amp with the power of the EF6 at half the price.


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





dixter said:


> The pre-amp option is a switch on the back of the amp and an extra set of RCA outputs on the back...      Its pretty nice...   when you want to listen to headphones you put the switch for the front output ( headphones )  when you want to use the Woo as a pre-amp, flip the switch and the out-put is now out of the extra RCA outputs... to drive another amp or powered speakers...
> 
> A good upgrade option...


 


 Just to add that the loop is always active, so one doesn't need to turn the Woo amp on for the signal to pass through if it's installed between the source and existing preamp (which is my case)


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> I wish I had known about this upgrade option. When did it become available?


 


  That would be a question for Jack to answer...


----------



## Sid-Fi

This looks pretty dang interesting. I really like the modular, upgradable design, and fully balanced hardware. Thanks for sharing.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Just announced, the Schiit Gunginer balanced DAC:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Those guys don't slow down do they?  Lots of new Schiit.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Those guys don't slow down do they?  Lots of new Schiit.


 

 Well they did for awhile actually, evidently biz has been good with the Lyr and Bifrost, so they had to move into a bigger manufacturing space for greater capacity. Now that they will be able to keep up with demand watch out.
   
  The "Spear of Odin" has pretty much eliminated the Audiolab from consideration for me, I can't wait for some listening impressions late in the summer. I probably won't shell out for the Anedio either, so it's down to this Schiit or the Woo WDS-1.


----------



## ardilla

Seems like Woo is getting new dealers. I've seen the aussie one before, but the chinese is new to me
http://www.pincha.com.tw/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/51
http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/Woo-Audio-2-ClassA-Vacuum-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well they did for awhile actually, evidently biz has been good with the Lyr and Bifrost, so they had to move into a bigger manufacturing space for greater capacity. Now that they will be able to keep up with demand watch out.
> 
> The "Spear of Odin" has pretty much eliminated the Audiolab from consideration for me, I can't wait for some listening impressions late in the summer. I probably won't shell out for the Anedio either, so it's down to this Schiit or the Woo WDS-1.


 

 Wonder how the W4S units stack up.  There is also my favorite audio brand (Virtue) in the mix as they're doing a DAC this year too.  The Schiit unit certainly seems ready to beat anything at its pricepoint though, and I love the name.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i dunno if i wanna sell my k701s anymore,  i've been having so much fun with them tonight.
   
  they sound like a blend between hd 800 and t1. they sound more open than they used to. perhaps cause im finally giving them some listening hours (over 100+ hours) compared to before when i only used them a few times...
   
   
  hmm....
  they look really cool too next to the WA6-SE/WA2.


----------



## emremusic

That's a coincidence because I was thinking of not going for the D7000's and sticking to the k701s. 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i dunno if i wanna sell my k701s anymore,  i've been having so much fun with them tonight.
> 
> they sound like a blend between hd 800 and t1. they sound more open than they used to. perhaps cause im finally giving them some listening hours (over 100+ hours) compared to before when i only used them a few times...
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> That's a coincidence because I was thinking of not going for the D7000's and sticking to the k701s.


 







  Sounds like there's more $$$ & fidelity to be had in those AKG's. Curiously, looking at your signature, did you go K702>K701 or the other way around?


----------



## emremusic

I'm sorry, I meant k702s. I've never owned the k701s. I either called them k701/or 702. I figure they are the same headphone anyways. 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sounds like there's more $$$ & fidelity to be had in those AKG's. Curiously, looking at your signature, did you go K702>K701 or the other way around?


----------



## emremusic

And I see you switched from Wa6se to 2359glenn... How do you like you new amp?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sounds like there's more $$$ & fidelity to be had in those AKG's. Curiously, looking at your signature, did you go K702>K701 or the other way around?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i dunno if i wanna sell my k701s anymore,  i've been having so much fun with them tonight.
> 
> they sound like a blend between hd 800 and t1. they sound more open than they used to. perhaps cause im finally giving them some listening hours (over 100+ hours) compared to before when i only used them a few times...
> 
> ...


 


  I'm trading off my Q701's to fund an HD800 for my WA2 that I'm going to buy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice! 
   
  i wish i could trade my RS1i, Pro 900, and K701 for a ps1000 or something. but those are hard to come by.


----------



## Rawrbington

ddo you use your k701 with the 6SE or 2?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> And I see you switched from Wa6se to 2359glenn... How do you like you new amp?


 








 There's a lot to like! At 128 hours, the amp is still coming into its own and is going back into the shop for further enhancements (5998 tube modification; stepped attenuator). And the amp will get its own Maple platform in a couple of weeks. Then in June, I'm going to prop a trio of 3" Brass footers @ 5 lbs. a piece under that bad boy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I do miss my Woo, however... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There's destined to be some Woo magic for me in the future, so no need for me to fret.


----------



## Sid-Fi

No need to worry Silent One. My WA22 should be shipping this week finally, and I will be happy to share some pics and impressions .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> No need to worry Silent One. My WA22 should be shipping this week finally, and I will be happy to share some pics and impressions .


 

 Thanks! Though, I have to admit I'm starting to give the Woo DAC _the_ _EYE..._


----------



## Austin Morrow

Has anybody here tried either the WA6SE and/or the Wa2 vs. the RSA Raptor?


----------



## Pudu

Just kickin' back with a glass of Zaya and some Count Basie on the wootwo, and it made me realize I haven't stopped by this thread in a long while.

Hey.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Just kickin' back with a glass of Zaya and some Count Basie on the wootwo, and it made me realize I haven't stopped by this thread in a long while.
> Hey.


 

 Glad you're relaxing. Sit a spell. Welcome back. I too am with the wootwo and a glass of wine.


----------



## Silent One

I am with you two in spirit...


----------



## mwilson

Same here. Missing my 22, and listening to some tracks that sounded velvety smooth on it. Here's a sip of something fine for the departed WA22



silent one said:


> I am with you two in spirit...


----------



## Austin Morrow

I am with the woosix and a Chai. Does that count?


----------



## jc9394

Woo22 with Mccallan 18 on a cold rainy night.


----------



## mwilson

Close to what I'm having. Isla as the origin. Lagavulin... Mmmm, the peat. The smoky finish resembles how the WA22 rendered certain jazz tracks. 




jc9394 said:


> Woo22 with Mccallan 18 on a cold rainy night.


----------



## jc9394

mwilson said:


> Close to what I'm having. Isla as the origin. Lagavulin... Mmmm, the peat. The smoky finish resembles how the WA22 rendered certain jazz tracks.




I'm with you, love the woo22 with single malt and jazz.


----------



## Draygonn

Sometimes when I leave the WA2 running without music playing I get a faint ringing from the amp after 15 minutes or so, even if the headphones are plugged in. Low volume high pitched ringing, not from the headphones or the tubes, its the amp itself. Its happened 4-5 times and once I've noticed it I shut the amp off. Have any of you had this happen?


----------



## hodgjy

I get strange noises in my WA3, which sometimes resembles static, fuzz, or a ringing.  It's not tube related.  To this day, I have no idea what causes it.
  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Sometimes when I leave the WA2 running without music playing I get a faint ringing from the amp after 15 minutes or so, even if the headphones are plugged in. Low volume high pitched ringing, not from the headphones or the tubes, its the amp itself. Its happened 4-5 times and once I've noticed it I shut the amp off. Have any of you had this happen?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Sometimes when I leave the WA2 running without music playing I get a faint ringing from the amp after 15 minutes or so, even if the headphones are plugged in. Low volume high pitched ringing, not from the headphones or the tubes, its the amp itself. Its happened 4-5 times and once I've noticed it I shut the amp off. Have any of you had this happen?


 


  I would swap out all the tubes and see if it's still there. Could very well be tube related.


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> I would swap out all the tubes and see if it's still there. Could very well be tube related.




Good idea. I'll try that.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mwilson said:


> Same here. Missing my 22, and listening to some tracks that sounded velvety smooth on it. Here's a sip of something fine for the departed WA22


 


  Status check - when you sent the '22' down the street, what did you do with your spare (if any) 5998's, keep 'em or threw 'em in? And if dead quiet, what is your source?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I get strange noises in my WA3, which sometimes resembles static, fuzz, or a ringing.  It's not tube related.  To this day, I have no idea what causes it.


 

 Because you've not always had strange noises emitting from your Woo, try to recall when they first began to happen. And in the name of basic research, when you brought your new cat home, did it coincide with the amp's troubles?
   
   
*French cats behave:*


----------



## hodgjy

Good post!  Interestingly enough, I noticed the strange noise before the new cat came home.  It was my frustration of not being able to troubleshoot the noise problem that necessitated my fall into the arms of another woman.  The misbehaving girl caused me a wandering eye.....
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Because you've not always had strange noises emitting from your Woo, try to recall when they first began to happen. And in the name of basic research, when you brought your new cat home, did it coincide with the amp's troubles?
> 
> 
> *French cats behave:*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Good post!  Interestingly enough, I noticed the strange noise before the new cat came home.  It was my frustration of not being able to troubleshoot the noise problem that necessitated my fall into the arms of another woman.  The misbehaving girl caused me a wandering eye.....


 


  Had I not picked up an OTL amp, I would have been interested in getting your '3' from you. Looks like a nice lil' amp to play around with; to better understand "ROLLETH."


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> I would swap out all the tubes and see if it's still there. Could very well be tube related.




I swapped out all the tubes
ran it for 30 minutes
stopped the music and turned the volume dial down
let it sit for 30 minutes
the sound started again
listened to the sound for ten minutes and it didn't change
played music again and after 5 minutes the sound stopped
weird, I guess I'll shut it down if it is going to sit longer than 15 minutes.

Wow, these stock 6080's need to be cranked! I normally listen around 9 o'clock with the 5998s, the 6080's need to go to almost 12 o'clock..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I swapped out all the tubes
> ran it for 30 minutes
> stopped the music and turned the volume dial down
> let it sit for 30 minutes
> ...


 







 I'm fixin' to go deaf with the 5998's on my OTL amp and the tubes aren't even runnin' at maximum! Those 5998's are powerful!


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> :eek:  I'm fixin' to go deaf with the 5998's on my OTL amp and the tubes aren't even runnin' at maximum! Those 5998's are powerful!




Someone posted that the 5998s have twice the gain of the stock 6080s. 



I bow down to their power.


----------



## Silent One

And... who might this gentleman be? Anyway, the power of 5998's is even more frightening with 25 ohm cans!


----------



## San Raal

Had an impulse to re-try my pair of 596 bottles again at the weekend with my Taka 300B and Shug CV181 in the woo5. 
   
  Things were sounding better than I remember (The music wasn't trying to pull my head inside out!) I think some time settling from their trans-atlantic flight has helped and that the Shug/Taka combo maybe better suited than the TSRP/EML Mesh.
   
  Time will tell


----------



## jc9394

Anyone received the evite from Woo audio for New York Audio & AV Show '12?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone received the evite from Woo audio for New York Audio & AV Show '12?


 


  Yes, I did.


----------



## Csericks

jc9394 said:


> Anyone received the evite from Woo audio for New York Audio & AV Show '12?


Yes


----------



## jc9394

Anyone going?  I'm planing to attend.


----------



## kchew

Same here. I wish I could attend, but it's a long way from Singapore...
   
  I'm chilling out right now with the WA22 and Lee Ritenour's 6 String Theory on the playlist. I had put in the EML 5U4G mesh plate yesterday and man, I've forgotten how much I really like this rectifier. Now all that's left is the USAF-596 and I can conclude my rectifier shootout.


----------



## San Raal

Yes, got the email, would love to listen to the new WA monoblocks but since its overseas I'm going to pass


----------



## haejuk

I got the invite too!  And all I did was order a headphone stand from them.  Those amps are still out of my price range!


----------



## davidio

Hey all,
  I have observations to report on the upgraded Woo 6 with 1950 Mullard ECC32-CV181 drivers.  I recieved the classic drivers from Brendan at Tube World on Friday.  After about 8 hours of burning in, I have to say these are fantastic!
   
  Mullard ECC32-CV181 Review: 
   
  When I was wondering whether or not to spend that much dough, I went searching from reviews of this premium NOS tube...but read very little information about it's actual SQ.  Descriptions like "solid midrange" and "romantic sound" weren't doing anything for me.  What the heck, I could describe the Brimar CV1988s in the same fashion.  I took a leap of faith based on Skylab's list of favorite tubes (He seems to like what I like, and has lots of experience) ...keeping in mind I could always resell such a highly sought tube or just tell Brendan, hey, these aren't doing it for me.  So I hope the following description is helpful to those who really need more info in the future to make such a large decision as spending $600 on a pair of tubes.
   
  Observations made with Senn HD650 headphones, upgraded Woo 6, classic rock music.  (Note:  The ECC32s require the use of Woo Audio adapters to convert the 9 pins to 8.)  Sound source:  Imod with the Vcap dock.  High grade fabric-covered silver mini-to-rca from ALO Audio.
   
  Upon taking these vintage beauties out of their boxes, I was shocked at their size!  These are larger than some rectifiers...They are actually shaped similarly to the Sophia Princess, in miniature.  They are about 50% larger than the 6SN7s (Brimar CV1888s) I've been using.  Speaking of the Sophia Princess, I was disappointed to find that it was crowded-out by the ECC32s.  Trying to fit the CV181s in with the Sophia nearly bent the pins in the sockets.  DOH!  (Question for Head-Fiers: Do they make an extender for tubes to raise-up a rectifier and eliminate this problem?)  Well, I went quickly to plan B, which was to use the Mullard/Holland metal base GZ34 rectifier...small, with a decent sound spectrum...but not nearly the staging scope of the Princess.  Oh, well... Perhaps the old Mullards from the 50s would play nice together, dance at the sock hop, go to a full-service gas station together and fuel up for five cents a gallon.  
   
  Did they ever!  Right away, I noticed the sound coming from the Woo 6 was richer than ever before.  Now, allow me to explain so that we can all understand.  Do you remember the first time you ever listened to tubes?  My first experience was with a Little Dot II with stock tubes.  Right away, the listener notices that tubes make the sound more realistic because the hard edges of sound, although audible, are rounded a bit and the sound is not as "robotic" as with solid state.  For the first time, there was thickness to the sound, and instruments took on a new weight and attitude.  The snare didn't just go "tang."  It went "FWAP!  You talkin' to me?"  The new tube listener notices that vocals go wide, front and center, and they are more fluid and tangible.  My first experience with tubes is what I experienced with the CV181s, only on a much more refined level.  The vintage Brimar 6SN7 drivers sound lovely, and to compare them to vintage CV181s in terms of quality is like apples and oranges... they are both high quality sound, and they are different.  The Brimars are warm and slightly distant sounding, to allow for a wide soundstage.  With the Brimars, you can hear one vocalist standing three feet back with a microphone below him to the slight left, and another vocalist standing two feet away on the right with the mic above him.  And that is very magical...to hear such precise sound placement, on such a wide stage.  Although I don't listen to classical and jazz as much, I would think the Brimars are the way to go with those types of genres in which placement is so vital, and the distance between the music and the listener actually adds quality.
   
  By contrast, the ECC32s bring everything in.  Not too much...but into the first row at least.  The vocalist isn't floating up there on stage, he is five feet in front of you and his room reverb comes up behind him.  With these tubes, the sound-stage placement is there, but you have to listen for it.  It is easy to sit back and go "ahhh."  Because everything is closer in, the listener can hear the full weight and tone of each instrument, especially the vocals.  So the wow factor is in the richness of the sound.  Not to say that these tubes don't accurately capture the stereo imaging of the original recording.  They do.  Right to left imaging is amazing and sometimes I thought I heard someone standing behind me...where the wall is, behind the sofa.  One would think that this close sound would be fatguing.  It isn't.  The highs are a bit soft compared to Brimars and others...so that helps.  And the lows are very balanced...with this sort of sound, one would think the lows would be overpowering, muddy, congested and annoying.  For instance, the 6FD7 drivers have that up close sound, but you pay for it with sound congestion and lack of sound stage.  Not with the CV181s!  Since the lows are balanced and the highs are toned down (not too much),  the weight of the midrange doesn't annoy...it is captivating.  I could hear all the nuances that I heard with Brimars, like the breath of the vocalist, and distance of the singers from the microphones, and even studio noises... and when the vocal harmonies spring from the background with all that weight and girth of sound, let me tell you, it is satisfying.  Being a drummer, I appreciate the fact that the ECC32s take you from the tenth row and put you behind the drummer's throne.  The drums are slapped with the stick and I can hear the tone of the drum, how tightly the drumhead is set, etc.  Does the ECC32 Mullard have as nice a soundstage as Brimar CV1888?  No, but it is there if you listen for it.  The instrument comes first, it's placement and effects come second.  (Perhaps the soundstage will change somewhat and become a touch more prominent if I can get the Sophia Princess to fit with the CV181s...that is my guess). 
   
  I heard that ECC32s run hotter than 6SN7s and that they are much louder, as well.  I didn't experience those things as much as expected.  On the Woo 6, the adapters help lift the drivers and so the heat barely affects the casing of the amp.  And the volume is only a bit louder...it didn't blow me away or distort. 
   
  And now, a couple questions for you guys.  I hope you can help!  Perhaps you have experienced this.  The left channel wasn't working this morning.  I took the drivers out of their respective adapters, blew on them and put them back, and switched the right and left sides, and then both were working again.  My guess is that the pins got a little bent when I was trying to fit the Princess in with the CV181s.  Or could it be there is some kind of short in the tube?  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Also, do they make a device that will lift up the Princess about an inch or so in order to be able to fit her on the amp with the ECC32's?  I've searched "tube extension," etc, but with no luck. 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Greetings davidio!
   
  Try sending fellow member 2359glenn a PM. I'm sure he can help!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone going?  I'm planing to attend.


 


  Got it, but the window is too tight! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Had it arrived post tax refund... glad you'll be in attendance representing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Same here. I wish I could attend, but it's a long way from Singapore...
> 
> I'm chilling out right now with the WA22 and Lee Ritenour's 6 String Theory on the playlist. I had put in the EML 5U4G mesh plate yesterday and man, I've forgotten how much I really like this rectifier. Now all that's left is the USAF-596 and I can conclude my rectifier shootout.


 


  Doesn't really matter where in the rotation you placed the USAF-596. Good, bad or indifferent, it's going to linger no matter what you do.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Had an impulse to re-try my pair of 596 bottles again at the weekend with my Taka 300B and Shug CV181 in the woo5.
> 
> Things were sounding better than I remember (The music wasn't trying to pull my head inside out!) I think some time settling from their trans-atlantic flight has helped and that the Shug/Taka combo maybe better suited than the TSRP/EML Mesh.
> 
> Time will tell


 

 For me, tales of the _Mighty 596_ are always interesting! Will be following your accounts...


----------



## davidio

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings davidio!
> 
> Try sending fellow member 2359glenn a PM. I'm sure he can help!


 


 Thanks!


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone received the evite from Woo audio for New York Audio & AV Show '12?


 


 Yes, but already spent some time with Jack at the Montreal AV show. That's actually where I made my decision to buy my HD800/WA6SE combo.


----------



## Draygonn

jc9394 said:


> Anyone received the evite from Woo audio for New York Audio & AV Show '12?




Yes but its on the other side of the country. I hope Woo makes it out to the LA meet this summer.


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone received the evite from Woo audio for New York Audio & AV Show '12?


 


  Yes.  Wrong side of the country for me.


----------



## emremusic

I wish I could go, but I can't... Wrong side of the earth for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





peshmerga said:


> Yes.  Wrong side of the country for me.


----------



## Austin Morrow

In case anyone is wondering. I'm starting to have the Woo blues, as I have to return the Woo 6 very soon. If anybody has a near mint condition Woo 2 they'd like to trade, I have a HA-160DS + other goodies up for grabs.


----------



## Pudu

I feel for you. My wootwo is the very last piece of audio kit I'd see go out the door. 






And that would only be after the kids went first.


----------



## snapple10

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> In case anyone is wondering. I'm starting to have the Woo blues, as I have to return the Woo 6 very soon. If anybody has a near mint condition Woo 2 they'd like to trade, I have a HA-160DS + other goodies up for grabs.


 


  got a WA6SE I do not even turn it on regularly any more, are you interested? There is something  that you have and I want  
  will sent you a PM


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> got a WA6SE I do not even turn it on regularly any more, are you interested? There is something  that you have and I want
> will sent you a PM


 


  I'd consider that as an option. PM me.


----------



## Silent One

Hmmm, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder if snapple10's _6 Special Edition_ is in the requisite Black... and what other gear is she turning on in its place.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Haha. Still weighing my options. I love my HD650's, and have a feeling the faster energy of the WA6SE, but that WA2 is oh so tempting, and I've heard it works better with a HD800 or LCD-2 seeing as I'm getting ready to upgrade here soon...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Haha. Still weighing my options. I love my HD650's, and have a feeling the faster energy of the WA6SE, but that WA2 is oh so tempting, and I've heard it works better with a HD800 or LCD-2 seeing as I'm getting ready to upgrade here soon...


 


  Strangely, I even miss the Woo's aesthetics when entering and exiting the listening room as I go about other affairs.


----------



## Pudu

Don't go out of your way to pair the Wa2 with the LCD-2.


----------



## snapple10

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hmmm,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 yes, it is in black 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  got Violectric combo V200/ v800 recently- loving it


----------



## cacatalysis

In my WA22, Shug CV181 pairs well with 596.  For HD800, I like the combination of TS7236/RCA 6F8G or TS6F8G/596.
  
  Quote: 





san raal said:


> Had an impulse to re-try my pair of 596 bottles again at the weekend with my Taka 300B and Shug CV181 in the woo5.
> 
> Things were sounding better than I remember (The music wasn't trying to pull my head inside out!) I think some time settling from their trans-atlantic flight has helped and that the Shug/Taka combo maybe better suited than the TSRP/EML Mesh.
> 
> Time will tell


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> yes, it is in black
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, very nice... especially the synergy between the pair! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will send you a PM for a closer assessment. I've a three-way deal floating inside my head...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Don't go out of your way to pair the Wa2 with the LCD-2.


 


  I won't . It will more than likely be with the HD800.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Don't go out of your way to pair the Wa2 with the LCD-2.


 


  No doubt, your absence here was due in part to some really great sessions with the WA2!


----------



## Pudu

LOL, actually I just can't keep pace with all you loquacious buggers in this thread.

I have been giving my LCD-2s some loving in an attempt to fully appreciate them. This was facilitated somewhat by a nasty ground loop on my computer which was painfully evident through my Wa2 but not noticeable on the Lyr. So the OTL rig got booted upstairs for the remainder of our stay in this house.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Still open. I think I'm just going to go for a WA2 instead of settling for a WA6SE. I wouldn't be satisfied. And the WA6SE doesn't look nearly as beastly as the Woo Audio WA2.


----------



## jc9394

Who sold this WA22?  Congrats to whoever that person is.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/598337/fs-woo-audio-wa22-includes-shipping-insurance-and-fees-still-under-warranty


----------



## Rawrbington

@Ausin
  i love my WA2 so much.  and if you have a reciever with main in or an integrated amp you can pre your speaker system with it.  and get tube sound from your cans and your speaks.
  but the WA6SE is much more versatile.  thats the only knock on the 2.  it doesn't play nice with all low imp cans, but you already knew that    =)
   
  prepare to be raped by the 5998 tube seller.  and by raped i mean probably more than what a sophia would cost you.  protip: buy used 5998s from a dealer who will take them back.  scored mine for a hair under 50$ for the matched pair.  and they are dead dead dead silent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> @Ausin
> i love my WA2 so much.  and if you have a reciever with main in or an integrated amp you can pre your speaker system with it.  and get tube sound from your cans and your speaks.
> but the WA6SE is much more versatile.  thats the only knock on the 2.  it doesn't play nice with all low imp cans, but you already knew that    =)
> 
> prepare to be raped by the 5998 tube seller.  and by raped i mean probably more than what a sophia would cost you.  protip: buy used 5998s from a dealer who will take them back.  *scored mine for a hair under 50$ for the matched pair.  and they are dead dead dead silent.*


 








 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On what day?! I continue to keep my eyes and ears open...


----------



## Rawrbington

3 days before christmas.
  yeah i almost bought 4 of them.  cause he said he had 10.
  and that 50$ included shipping.  it was 40 for the 2 tubes, 2$ per to match, and then 6 in shipping.
  ive gotten back with the guy several times just to see if he had more and no luck   =(


----------



## Xcalibur255

davidio, I would check the sockets for debris or buildup, then clean the pins on the ECC32s as good first troubleshooting steps.  It may have just been a fluke and one tube wasn't seated well also.  The pins in the sockets are spring loaded, so if you permanently bent them it would be easy to tell by shining a light in there and checking.
   
  I enjoy your writing style btw, elegant and vivid but still purposeful.  The way you describe the ECC32 reminds me a lot of the things I had to say about the Sylvania Chrome Dome '52 GT.  If you haven't listened to that tube, or to the round plate black glass Tung Sol GT they are also must have 6SN7s IMO.  A lot of folks feel the ECC32 is the king though, so maybe the view isn't as grand when you climb back down from the top of the mountain so to speak.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> 3 days before christmas.
> yeah i almost bought 4 of them.  cause he said he had 10.
> and that 50$ included shipping.  it was 40 for the 2 tubes, 2$ per to match, and then 6 in shipping.
> ive gotten back with the guy several times just to see if he had more and no luck   =(


 

 You ask for leads, by chance? Maybe the dealer and his/her buddies back scratch...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Someone posted that the 5998s have twice the gain of the stock 6080s.
> 
> I bow down to their power.


 


  2.5x the gain.  Typical mu for a 5998 is 5.4 vs. 2.0 for a 6080 or 6AS7.  The Western Electric is higher still at about 5.8 if memory serves.  I suspect this is partially why people think they sound better than the regular 5998.  More gain doesn't necessarily mean more driving power though, as that comes from a variety of different variables.  Despite their reputation for being a harder edged sounding tube good for rock, I found that when given the plate current it really wants the 5998 actually takes on the same relaxed and effortless sound the 6AS7G exhibits only with clearly superior transparency and bass/control.


----------



## Rawrbington

I didn't but I remember he talked to me about tubes for a good 45 minutes. I think he said they came out of some sort of industrial equipment and that the 10 he kept were just the ones that tested very close to nos

He also gave me a 60 day money back return policy. No restocking fees no bs. Just would have to pay the 6 bucks to ship me back

Really that's probably the best score I've had on audio stuff.


----------



## cacatalysis

I agree with your description about 5998 being relaxed and effortless, very different from TS7236.  They are still powerful, very nice tubes.
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> 2.5x the gain.  Typical mu for a 5998 is 5.4 vs. 2.0 for a 6080 or 6AS7.  The Western Electric is higher still at about 5.8 if memory serves.  I suspect this is partially why people think they sound better than the regular 5998.  More gain doesn't necessarily mean more driving power though, as that comes from a variety of different variables.  Despite their reputation for being a harder edged sounding tube good for rock, I found that when given the plate current it really wants the 5998 actually takes on the same relaxed and effortless sound the 6AS7G exhibits only with clearly superior transparency and bass/control.


----------



## Rawrbington

I'd call the 5998 the hd 650 of tubes


----------



## WooAudio

There is no better time to sample all the Woo Audio products and the latest offering. Please join us:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/603694/woo-audio-is-at-new-york-audio-av-show-12
   
  Cheers,
 Jack


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> There is no better time to sample all the Woo Audio products and the latest offering. Please join us:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/603694/woo-audio-is-at-new-york-audio-av-show-12
> 
> ...


 


  Really wish that I could attend. Unfortunately, I live in the rainy state of Washington.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Yeah, I received the invitation as well. Unfortunately, I thought it was the shipping confirmation for my WA22 . I would love to attend as well, but swamped at work and all the way out in Arizona...


----------



## Rawrbington

is 400$ too much for a pair of denon 5000?


----------



## Silent One

That depends. What's their status - Pre-Owned, Open Box...?


----------



## grokit

I got the invite as well. I bought a stand in the past, and Jack was awesome enough to take in my used WA22 for repair and an upgrade. Unfortunately I am way too far away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Who sold this WA22?  Congrats to whoever that person is.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/598337/fs-woo-audio-wa22-includes-shipping-insurance-and-fees-still-under-warranty


 

 Only two months new, I sure hope that *pyramid6* had a chance to listen to it with some better tubes before he decide to pass it on


----------



## Silent One

Woo Audio AV Show-
   
  I'm not too far away geographically, just too far away financially. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe next year, Jack...


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I got the invite as well. I bought a stand in the past, and Jack was awesome enough to take in my used WA22 for repair and an upgrade. Unfortunately I am way too far away
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Still have it, I closed the ad because I wanted to listen to it with the WDS-1.  I did get some better tubes.  The problem wasn't with the amp.  The problem was with the headphones, D7000 and W3000ANV.  I felt the amp was too loud with those headphones.  With the volume control on the WDS-1, volume is not a problem anymore.
   
  I'm thinking of keeping it now.  I really like the way it sounds with the WDS-1.  Of course, I'll need to buy new tubes again.


----------



## davidio

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> davidio, I would check the sockets for debris or buildup, then clean the pins on the ECC32s as good first troubleshooting steps.  It may have just been a fluke and one tube wasn't seated well also.  The pins in the sockets are spring loaded, so if you permanently bent them it would be easy to tell by shining a light in there and checking.
> 
> I enjoy your writing style btw, elegant and vivid but still purposeful.  The way you describe the ECC32 reminds me a lot of the things I had to say about the Sylvania Chrome Dome '52 GT.  If you haven't listened to that tube, or to the round plate black glass Tung Sol GT they are also must have 6SN7s IMO.  A lot of folks feel the ECC32 is the king though, so maybe the view isn't as grand when you climb back down from the top of the mountain so to speak.


 

 Xcalibur,
  Thanks for the compliments and the tips!  I'm going to buy some De Oxit spray and do a little cleaning.  Fortunately, the ECC32 were NOS and very nice and I put them directly into the adapters first, so I'm hoping that the problem, if permanent, resides with the the adapter pins...a much less costly issue.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Still have it, I closed the ad because I wanted to listen to it with the WDS-1.  I did get some better tubes.  The problem wasn't with the amp.  The problem was with the headphones, D7000 and W3000ANV.  I felt the amp was too loud with those headphones.  With the volume control on the WDS-1, volume is not a problem anymore.
> 
> I'm thinking of keeping it now.  I really like the way it sounds with the WDS-1.  Of course, I'll need to buy new tubes again.


 
   
  I have the same issue with my D7000 before but I got around it is using the volume control on my DAC.  Are you using a 6080/6AS7G power tubes?


----------



## davidio

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings davidio!
> 
> Try sending fellow member 2359glenn a PM. I'm sure he can help!


 

 HOW TO RAISE THE HEIGHT OF A TUBE ON YOUR HEADPHONE AMP
   
  Hmmm.  Maybe I had to search for this because it is just common knowledge to most audiophiles.  This is another simple fix for which no easy answers could be found online.  And head fi is the place to find it, I would think.  So if your favorite tubes can't be placed together because one or two of them need elbow room, or just because they are all just a bunch of fatties (aren't most of the good ones?), you can change the height of individual tubes cheaply by buying socket savers.  They come in 8 or 9 pin configurations and are universal.  For those who don't know, socket savers are meant to save the sockets in your amp if you do a lot of switching out, the way that tube tester folks will do.  So you would put the saver in so that you won't wear out your original socket.  In our case, you would put the saver in your original socket and then plug your favorite fatty into the top of the saver in order to boost the height:  Savers are, on average, three quarters of an inch tall. 
   
  Anyway, if you search socket savers, they can be found in most electronics catalogues and on ebay.  My understanding is that the 8 socket variety aren't made anymore whereas 9 pin varieties can be purchased new.  For the 274B Princess, I'll need the NOS 8 pin version to lift her up where she belongs...where eagles fly...on a mountain high.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have the same issue with my D7000 before but I got around it is using the volume control on my DAC.  Are you using a 6080/6AS7G power tubes?


 

 Yes.  As much as I like the WA22, I just don't think it is great with low impedance headphones.  Changing the volume on the DAC helps with the volume, noise is still an issue though.  I tried 8 or 9 pairs of power tubes and all of them were noisy.  With the volume issue fixed, I might try again.
   
  I really want to try the LCD-2 with the WA22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Yes.  As much as I like the WA22, I just don't think it is great with low impedance headphones.  Changing the volume on the DAC helps with the volume, noise is still an issue though.  I tried 8 or 9 pairs of power tubes and all of them were noisy.  With the volume issue fixed, I might try again.
> 
> I really want to try the LCD-2 with the WA22.


 

 hum, none of the tubes i used are noisy and i usually listen late in the night where there is no noise what so ever.  the best power tubes i tried with d7000 are gec 6080 and gec 6as7g, never have a chance to try the w3000anv and it is in my wish list.
   
  wa22 is great with lcd2 but make sure you have ts or sylvania 7236 power tubes.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> hum, none of the tubes i used are noisy and i usually listen late in the night where there is no noise what so ever.  the best power tubes i tried with d7000 are gec 6080 and gec 6as7g, never have a chance to try the w3000anv and it is in my wish list.
> 
> wa22 is great with lcd2 but make sure you have ts or sylvania 7236 power tubes.


 

 I listen at very quiet levels.  My db meter reads 45db pressed up against the cup.  Sometimes I turn it down from there.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Really wish that I could attend. Unfortunately, I live in the rainy state of Washington.


 

 Me too! I really wish that I could attend. Unfortunately, I live in the foggy city of San Francisco.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Me too! I really wish that I could attend. Unfortunately, I live in the foggy city of San Francisco.


 


  Ah, I feel for you my friend. I have a feeling it's going to be a spectacular show too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





davidio said:


> HOW TO RAISE THE HEIGHT OF A TUBE ON YOUR HEADPHONE AMP
> 
> Hmmm.  Maybe I had to search for this because it is just common knowledge to most audiophiles.  This is another simple fix for which no easy answers could be found online.  And head fi is the place to find it, I would think.  So if your favorite tubes can't be placed together because one or two of them need elbow room, or just because they are all just a bunch of fatties (aren't most of the good ones?), you can change the height of individual tubes cheaply by buying socket savers.  They come in 8 or 9 pin configurations and are universal.  For those who don't know, socket savers are meant to save the sockets in your amp if you do a lot of switching out, the way that tube tester folks will do.  So you would put the saver in so that you won't wear out your original socket.  In our case, you would put the saver in your original socket and then plug your favorite fatty into the top of the saver in order to boost the height:  Savers are, on average, three quarters of an inch tall.
> 
> Anyway, if you search socket savers, they can be found in most electronics catalogues and on ebay.  My understanding is that the 8 socket variety aren't made anymore whereas 9 pin varieties can be purchased new.  For the 274B Princess, I'll need the NOS 8 pin version to lift her up where she belongs...where eagles fly...on a mountain high.


 

 Great find! When I read your post, two things immediately came to mind; Drummer's riser & Spacers. I knew what you needed but not where to find it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I've tried the D5000 and AD2000 out of the WA22 and wasn't that impressed either. I will try a D7000 soon, balanced with the 6080 though.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I've tried the D5000 and AD2000 out of the WA22 and wasn't that impressed either. I will try a D7000 soon, balanced with the 6080 though.


 

 Don't kill me since this a Woo thread, IMHO, Denon and AT sounds their best out of SS amp.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





davidio said:


> Xcalibur,
> Thanks for the compliments and the tips!  I'm going to buy some De Oxit spray and do a little cleaning.  Fortunately, the ECC32 were NOS and very nice and I put them directly into the adapters first, so I'm hoping that the problem, if permanent, resides with the the adapter pins...a much less costly issue.


 

 Sanding, deoxit, then alcohol cleaning is a standard procedure I put any new tube I buy through before putting it in my amp.  Much less need to worry about buildup of gunk in the sockets if you get the gunk off the tubes first.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





davidio said:


> Anyway, if you search socket savers, they can be found in most electronics catalogues and on ebay.  My understanding is that the 8 socket variety aren't made anymore whereas 9 pin varieties can be purchased new.  For the 274B Princess, I'll need the NOS 8 pin version to lift her up where she belongs...where eagles fly...on a mountain high.


 


  I bet Glenn could make you a socket saver for the Sophia.  I ran into this issue when I had my WA6 as well.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Totally agreed so far. The main reason I am trading for the D7k is because the D5k sounded so darn good out of a cheap AV123 x-head, but that was a last-minute test before I had traded those off because I didn't like them out of my WA22. I will experiment with them balanced out of the WA22, but the main plan is to plug that x-head directly into a phono stage in a different room and listen to the D7k single-ended out of that.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Just got shipping confirmation for my black WA22...woot!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Don't kill me since this a Woo thread, IMHO, Denon and AT sounds their best out of SS amp.


 


 Not going to kill you, the best amp I've heard with my AD2000 was from a, wait for it, Rudistor NX-03 solid state amp. But the Darkvoice 337 came pretty close to it. Alas I still can't get my AD2000 to sound just as good on my WA22, but it can still sound very decent. Oddly it sounds better with impedence set to "high" rather than "low".
   
   
   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Just got shipping confirmation for my black WA22...woot!


 


 Congrats! Black is an awesome colour, dust magnet though it may be. Hope you'll enjoy it as much as I do!


----------



## Silent One

That Sid-Fi has got taste... and a confirmation to boot!


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Just got shipping confirmation for my black WA22...woot!


 


 Good for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can't wait to get my own confirmation. What date did you order BTW?


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Going to drop a question on NOS tubes.

 Why NOS at all? I'm interested in reasons people have.
   
  Tube type you want isn't made any more, fair enough.
  But in the cases of tube types that exist as reproductions targeting various price points. Why?
*I'm disregarding individual tube sound as it muddies the water.*
   
  Why Old over new? Tubes, new and old are obviously intended to conform to a particular specification and requirement (electrically speaking)
*Are new tubes sloppily made? Do they not last as long? Poor vacuum hardness or what?*

 Even in a 'golden age' of mass production. Tubes were spewed out of factories in enormous numbers just like other components.
  I've seen some great old documentaries on some tube factories on youtube...funnily enough, they looked very similar to something you'd see on 'How it's Made' or 'Megafactories' via Discovery channel. Highly industrial, highly mechanised operations to meet the large demands of the day.
   
  I'm trying to understand the *'desirability'* of NOS and where it comes from. 
   
  I've been going mad for days thinking about it!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## emremusic

Are there any woo owners out there who are using the HE-500 headphones?? Especially wa6se owners?? It seems like a well priced high fi headphone.


----------



## hodgjy

I do believe a lot of the NOS superiority is overblown.  For example, the Sophia Princess is new production, and people love that.  Some Emission Lab tubes, too.
   
  There has been a fair amount of documentation about Electro-Harmonix tubes of the 9-pin variety losing vacuum and prematurely dying.  So, there's that.
   
  But, most importantly, of those who tried NOS tubes and their new production equivalents, many of us just think NOS sound better.  I don't think we would have any problems using new production tubes if they sounded better than NOS.  As to why they don't, I don't really know.
  
  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Going to drop a question on NOS tubes.
> 
> Why NOS at all? I'm interested in reasons people have.
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Not going to kill you, the best amp I've heard with my AD2000 was from a, wait for it, Rudistor NX-03 solid state amp. But the Darkvoice 337 came pretty close to it. Alas I still can't get my AD2000 to sound just as good on my WA22, but it can still sound very decent. Oddly it sounds better with impedence set to "high" rather than "low".


 
   
  Just wait til you tried your AD2000 with HA5000 or beta22.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just wait til you tried your AD2000 with HA5000 or beta22.


 

 Thanks for the suggestions. I'd like to try the AD2000 with the Zana Deux as well, the only problem is finding the people who have them!
   
   


  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Going to drop a question on NOS tubes.
> 
> Why NOS at all? I'm interested in reasons people have.


 


 For the price of premium Shuguang Treasures, I can have either Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle, JAN Raytheon VT-231, National Union 6SN7GT or Brimar CV1988, all of which are similarly priced or even cheaper. These NOS tubes are pretty renown and their sonic qualities have stood the test of time. I'm pretty sure the Shuguang Tresures are no slouch as well, but in their price range you are hard pressed to find other current production 6SN7 tubes. The sheer variety of NOS tubes means you can have plenty of fun rolling at varying price ranges.
   
  I don't have anything against current production tubes; I'd gladly take the EML 5U4G mesh plate over the Mullard GZ34 metal base anytime. I've heard that current production 300B tubes are pretty decent as well. What matters is choosing the right tube at your set price point, without worrying about whether it's NOS or not.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Okay, looks like I have swayed from the Woo 2 to the Woo 6SE. After reading around (tons of reviews and forums impressions), it seems as if though the 6SE might be better for me. It's supposed to have far superior speed a better soundstage, better treble extensions, a lot better PRaT, and added resolution over the Woo 2. Since I won't be getting an HD800 for awhile, I bet the 6SE will sound great with the HD650 and LCD-2 (if that's what I choose).


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Okay, looks like I have swayed from the Woo 2 to the Woo 6SE. After reading around (tons of reviews and forums impressions), it seems as if though the 6SE might be better for me. It's supposed to have far superior speed a better soundstage, better treble extensions, a lot better PRaT, and added resolution over the Woo 2. Since I won't be getting an HD800 for awhile, I bet the 6SE will sound great with the HD650 and LCD-2 (if that's what I choose).


 


  FWIW, Austin, the HD800 and the T1 for that matter, sound pretty darn nice on the 6SE.  The word is that the WA2 is a 'better' pairing (I havent heard it yet) but by no means does that imply that the 6SE is a 'bad' pairing with these cans.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





thrak said:


> FWIW, Austin, the HD800 and the T1 for that matter, sound pretty darn nice on the 6SE.  The word is that the WA2 is a 'better' pairing (I havent heard it yet) but by no means does that imply that the 6SE is a 'bad' pairing with these cans.


 


  Problem is, I've heard the HD800 and the T1 with the WA2, so I know how godly they sound out of it, yet I haven't heard the WA6SE with those two, so I am going off of blind impressions.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Problem is, I've heard the HD800 and the T1 with the WA2, so I know how godly they sound out of it, yet I haven't heard the WA6SE with those two, so I am going off of blind impressions.


 


  they are both excellent pairing, i think it is down to your personal preference.  wa2 is more tubey and wa6se is more dynamic with ss sounding.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> they are both excellent pairing, i think it is down to your personal preference.  wa2 is more tubey and wa6se is more dynamic with ss sounding.


 


  Have you heard both via the HD800 and the HD650, by chance? Looks like I may need to steer more towards the WA6SE now more than anything.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Have you heard both via the HD800 and the HD650, by chance? Looks like I may need to steer more towards the WA6SE now more than anything.


 


  hd800 and hd600 and i personally like the wa6se pairing better.  ymmv.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> hd800 and hd600 and i personally like the wa6se pairing better.  ymmv.


 


  Looks like I'll be going with the WA6SE then. I see you have a Woo 22. What's that like compared to the WA6SE?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Looks like I'll be going with the WA6SE then.* I see you have a Woo 22. What's that like compared to the WA6SE*?


 
   
  No comparison, it is like day and night if you are feeding balanced to wa22.  The sound signature is quite similar but just a whole level above, the same reason holding me back not to upgrade to wa5.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Are there any woo owners out there who are using the HE-500 headphones?? Especially wa6se owners?? It seems like a well priced high fi headphone.


 

  
  Hey, I was using the HE500 with my WA6SE. I think it paired ok. I tried it with the Sophia Princess and EML rectifiers and 6FD7/6EW7 driver tubes. I felt like the sound quality was good, it didn't amaze me though, I really enjoy my D7000 much more with the SE. The other problems with the HE500 is the very heavy weight making it uncomfortable for long listening and the silver cable it ships with is prone to breaking just after a few weeks.. in my experience the cable was very shabby - disappointing for such an expensive headphone. The thing that disappointed me the most was its very 2D sound, it just felt like having two speakers next to your ears, not finely tuned drivers. So Soundstage and imaging was limited. Ultimately I decided to return them and purchased the Ultrasone Signature Pro which is a much much better headphone across the board and totally worth the higher price tag as its better made and better sounding (IMO).


----------



## Silent One

The whispers remain soft, but constant. Seems I can't stay away from WAAOU. Could it be, that I'm being lured back into Wooville?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No comparison, it is like day and night if you are feeding balanced to wa22.  The sound signature is quite similar but just a whole level above, the same reason holding me back not to upgrade to wa5.


 


  I have a few balanced cables coming for the HD650, and have considered the WA22. I know it would take longer to get, but it's open as an option.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I have a few balanced cables coming for the HD650, and have considered the WA22. I know it would take longer to get, but it's open as an option.


 


  I mean the DAC has to be balanced, the headphone does not needed to be balanced to take full advantage.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The whispers remain soft, but constant. Seems I can't stay away from WAAOU. Could it be, that I'm being lured back into Wooville?


 


 Rumbleripper has WA22 for sale - make him an offer he can't refuse...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Rumbleripper has WA22 for sale - make him an offer he can't refuse...


 


  I think our Silent friend is holding for WA5LE...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Rumbleripper has WA22 for sale - make him an offer he can't refuse...


 


  Deja vu? It was just last summer I made crazy offers to existing WA22 owners and was left standing at the front door. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It be like that sometimes. One day, perhaps. But, not if can 'neak up on the WA5 first! You see me working, jc9394. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  However, like many other audio goals, there are diverging paths ahead. Take snapple10's meticulous _WooAudio WA6 Special Edition_, for example...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i prefer my WA2 for HD 800 and T1.  it really gets rid of the hotness in the treble and makes everything nice and smooth.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i prefer my WA2 for HD 800 and T1.  it really gets rid of the hotness in the treble and makes everything nice and smooth.


 


  Good choice! I bet after a really long day, these pairings sound dreamy...


----------



## jc9394

Maybe it is the source, I don't have treble issue on HD800 with any Woo amps. I do have it with beta22, and it is resolved by replacing TWag with a copper cable.


----------



## Rawrbington

im eager to jump on a new pair of cans.  probably sell my 990s.  which of these will best mesh with the wa2?
  HE 500, Denon 5000 or LCD2?
   
  my marantz 2245 has a fantastic headphone jack so i can drive all of them.  but want the one what will play the nicest with my 2 as well.
  or should i save for a pair of T1's?
   
  T1s out of the wa2 vs LCD2/he500/d5000 out of the marantz?
   
  hmmmm.
   
  thoughts?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think T1 is the best out of all those options, with the LCD-2 being about the same, the t1 are comfier though and sound better off the WA2. my WA2 cannot drive the LCD-2 very well either.
   
  if u like the 990 sound, the T1 is a huge step up in improvement. more detailed, more balanced, slightly less but tighter and cleaner bass. glad i sold my 990, never looked back.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I do believe a lot of the NOS superiority is overblown.  For example, the Sophia Princess is new production, and people love that.  Some Emission Lab tubes, too.


 

  
  Agree, the Sophia rectifiers (without scorched plates) are great sounding Rec's. The EML 5U4G mesh plates I' have are great. And the new production Takatsuki 300B - well, "just" amazing!

  
  Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Going to drop a question on NOS tubes.
> 
> Why NOS at all? I'm interested in reasons people have.
> 
> ...


 

  
  IMO that there's far too much generalising about new production tubes on the web based on a few poor samples. My local tube dealer here will label any new production tube as "awful" "rubbish" and plenty of other colourful metaphors when they get mentioned in conversation. It maybe that he genuinely has listened to them all or perhaps protecting his market!
   
  The new production tubes aimed at the audiophile scene have write ups and reviews and well worth adding to any short list.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Agreed! I applaud your astute observation. 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> That Sid-Fi has got taste... and a confirmation to boot!


----------



## Sid-Fi

I ordered it on February 26, and am scheduled to receive it next Tuesday - a tad over 6 weeks from order to delivery.
   
  I have class all night after work on Tuesday and Thursday. It's going to be rough sitting in class both nights with the shiny new amp just sitting on my audio rack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
   
  Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Good for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## davidio

I agree that it's best to just use your ears and not the "years."  But it is always nice to read some reviews and get some feedback before buying, either way.  In that regard, much more information can be found about older tubes, generally speaking.  Which reminds me, I'm wondering if anyone has tried the new Western Electric 274B remake, the Psvane rectifier.


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> im eager to jump on a new pair of cans.  probably sell my 990s.  which of these will best mesh with the wa2?
> HE 500, Denon 5000 or LCD2?
> 
> my marantz 2245 has a fantastic headphone jack so i can drive all of them.  but want the one what will play the nicest with my 2 as well.
> ...




No idea about the Marantz synergy, but the LCD is no where near as enjoyable as the T1, from the Wa2.

The T1 brings out the lush, musical nature of the Woo and has a sound stage to match it. The LCD not so much. Also the T1's are infinitely more comfortable than the LCD ... of course a transcontinental domestic economy class airline seat is more comfortable than the LCDs. Actually I was considering selling the LCD-2s but I recently received a new DAP which has extremely good synergy with the heavy buggers. So I'll hang onto them now. 

Seriously, since you have the Wa2, at least try out a pair of the Beyers before you make your buying decision.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





davidio said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has tried the new Western Electric 274B remake, the Psvane rectifier.


 

 Me too!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





davidio said:


> I agree that it's best to just use your ears and not the "years."  But it is always nice to read some reviews and get some feedback before buying, either way.  In that regard, much more information can be found about older tubes, generally speaking.  Which reminds me, I'm wondering if anyone has tried the new Western Electric 274B remake, the Psvane rectifier.


 
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Me too!


 

 Send a PM to linda-chen of Psvane Audio here on Head-Fi. See if you could get an audition to benefit members of the 'Unite' thread. Which, by the way, is the 6th most popular thread on HF and closing on positions 5-4-3 rapidly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is something Psvane Audio should consider.


----------



## roadster-s

Met Linda Chen at the MTL AV show, nice lady...hard to understand her accent but very nice lady nevertheless


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Send a PM to linda-chen of Psvane Audio here on Head-Fi. See if you could get an audition to benefit members of the 'Unite' thread. Which, by the way, is the 6th most popular thread on HF and closing on positions 5-4-3 rapidly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  She is BANNED, I don't mind audition the 274B and CV181-T.
   
  http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-t-6sn7-pair/


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Thanks for the response guys. I've been googling a lot late on the subject of longevity while chillin to music, and it sort of went from there with claims of new production types being 'inferior' with little else to back it up. Though in one case, a page claimed that the Guitar amp industry pressures the OEM side of tube manufacture to produce the cheapest product possible under the claim that a guitar amp is going to chew up and spit out tubes a high rate of knots anyway.
   
  One site claimed new tubes didn't use the same 'expensive' cathode coatings etc as NOS stuff (It didn't expand on this). This seems hard to verify but might explain varying tastes and preference.
   
  Broadly speaking, do you guys have any brands of new tube you've had positive experience with (not necessarily rock your world stuff, but not bad)
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I do believe a lot of the NOS superiority is overblown.  For example, the Sophia Princess is new production, and people love that.  Some Emission Lab tubes, too.
> 
> There has been a fair amount of documentation about Electro-Harmonix tubes of the 9-pin variety losing vacuum and prematurely dying.  So, there's that.
> 
> But, most importantly, of those who tried NOS tubes and their new production equivalents, many of us just think NOS sound better.  I don't think we would have any problems using new production tubes if they sounded better than NOS.  As to why they don't, I don't really know.


 
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> For the price of premium Shuguang Treasures, I can have either Sylvania 6SN7W short bottle, JAN Raytheon VT-231, National Union 6SN7GT or Brimar CV1988, all of which are similarly priced or even cheaper. These NOS tubes are pretty renown and their sonic qualities have stood the test of time. I'm pretty sure the Shuguang Tresures are no slouch as well, but in their price range you are hard pressed to find other current production 6SN7 tubes. The sheer variety of NOS tubes means you can have plenty of fun rolling at varying price ranges.
> 
> I don't have anything against current production tubes; I'd gladly take the EML 5U4G mesh plate over the Mullard GZ34 metal base anytime. I've heard that current production 300B tubes are pretty decent as well. What matters is choosing the right tube at your set price point, without worrying about whether it's NOS or not.


 

 Quote:


san raal said:


> Agree, the Sophia rectifiers (without scorched plates) are great sounding Rec's. The EML 5U4G mesh plates I' have are great. And the new production Takatsuki 300B - well, "just" amazing!
> 
> IMO that there's far too much generalising about new production tubes on the web based on a few poor samples. My local tube dealer here will label any new production tube as "awful" "rubbish" and plenty of other colourful metaphors when they get mentioned in conversation. It maybe that he genuinely has listened to them all or perhaps protecting his market!
> 
> The new production tubes aimed at the audiophile scene have write ups and reviews and well worth adding to any short list.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> She is BANNED, I don't mind audition the 274B and CV181-T.
> 
> http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-t-6sn7-pair/


 







 Must have been her misunderstanding between the objectives of her posts and the TOS here at HF. But, hardworking she is!


----------



## dleblanc343

So is it fair to say the WA6SE has "better soundstaging capabilities" over the WA2? With a pair of HD800's, would this even more expansive soundstage be detrimental to it?


----------



## Johmem

I'm looking for some advice on rectifiers for my WA6 (maxxed) too.  Is it worth it to spend money on more NOS rectifiers to try, or should I just get an EML 5U4G instead?  I have a Tung Sol 5U4G that I like better than my Sopia right now, and I'm curious about GZ37s, 34s, 5R4GY's etc.  But I would actually spend more money on nice specimines of these than just grabbing the expensive EML. 
   
  So what do you guys with lots of tube rolling experince say?  Is the EML the best way to go?
   
  I listen to Grado RS1i's right now, mainly rock, classic to metal.


----------



## Ahzari

Ok so there are limited driver tube upgrades for the WA6SE, I really want to get some of these 6SN7/ish driver tubes, I'm wondering how much it will hurt the tube to run them on the SE; Jack mentioned that it can damage the tube, if I'm spending big $ on them I'd be concerned.. For those who have run the 6SN7s on the SE (Silent One - hope you can chime in here); do you notice the amp running warmer or weird sounds coming from the tubes? I don't know the mechanics of the amps that well but does anyone know why or how the amp would damage the driver tubes? And I guess if its something that can be ignored (i.e. it will just slightly decrease the life of the tubes).
   
  On another note, I finally decided on a turntable. Going with the recently released Pro-Ject Debut Carbon in red ) got a new bookshelf and cambridge audio phono preamp hopefully ill have pictures of everything up soon.
   

   
  Lastly I upgraded my tube dampers from Herbie's RX line to the Halo-O III line and i like them better (look and performance)
   
  RX tube damper                                                                  Halo-O III tube damper


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





johmem said:


> I'm looking for some advice on rectifiers for my WA6 (maxxed) too.  Is it worth it to spend money on more NOS rectifiers to try, or should I just get an EML 5U4G instead?  I have a Tung Sol 5U4G that I like better than my Sopia right now, and I'm curious about GZ37s, 34s, 5R4GY's etc.  But I would actually spend more money on nice specimines of these than just grabbing the expensive EML.
> 
> So what do you guys with lots of tube rolling experince say?  Is the EML the best way to go?
> 
> I listen to Grado RS1i's right now, mainly rock, classic to metal.


 

 Many will say the EML is better than the Sophia, but I liked the Sophia better for the type of music I listen to (electronic/pop/lounge). The the EML had a better soundstage (slightly) but I felt it lacked some bass - and I like my bass, the Sophia does bass really well. Thats the only place I can comment, don't have much experience with NOS rectifiers.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





johmem said:


> I'm looking for some advice on rectifiers for my WA6 (maxxed) too.  Is it worth it to spend money on more NOS rectifiers to try, or should I just get an EML 5U4G instead?  I have a Tung Sol 5U4G that I like better than my Sopia right now, and I'm curious about GZ37s, 34s, 5R4GY's etc.  But I would actually spend more money on nice specimines of these than just grabbing the expensive EML.
> 
> So what do you guys with lots of tube rolling experince say?  Is the EML the best way to go?
> 
> I listen to Grado RS1i's right now, mainly rock, classic to metal.


 


  Based on the genre you listen to, go with metal based Mullard GZ34.  It is narrower soundstage compare to EML but the dynamic and the bass extension is much greater.


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Based on the genre you listen to, go with metal based Mullard GZ34.  It is narrower soundstage compare to EML but the dynamic and the bass extension is much greater.


 

 Ha!  I would love one, but this being Head-fi, you have of course recomended one of the few NOS rectifiers more expensive than EML, and far harder to find a reliable one.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I have read lots of great things about this tube, but I'm afraid its out of my price range.  I had considered the plastic based ones, still plenty expensive.  If anybody knows where to get a metal based GZ34 garunteed NOS for 300 or less, let me know.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Ha!  I would love one, but this being Head-fi, you have of course recomended one of the few NOS rectifiers more expensive than EML, and far harder to find a reliable one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  You did not said you have a budget cap.  Try hunt for a Mullard GZ37, it is at least 90+% of metal based GZ34.  If you can find a 596, get that and get an adapter from Glenn.  
  
  I may part with my 300 hours metal base GZ34 since I primary use 596 lately.  The GZ34 make a bigger difference on WA6 than WA22.


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You did not said you have a budget cap.  Try hunt for a Mullard GZ37, it is at least 90+% of metal based GZ34.  If you can find a 596, get that and get an adapter from Glenn.
> 
> I may part with my 300 hours metal base GZ34 since I primary use 596 lately.  The GZ34 make a bigger difference on WA6 than WA22.


 


 Yeah, I guess I do have a budget when it gets into that range.  I was mainly considering a small handfull of nice NOS tubes vs. the EML. 
   
  I have been watching Mullard GZ37s on Ebay for a while (along with Brimar 5Z4G, 5R4GY) and if I'm patient, I'll get some very nice tubes for $40-100 each.  In your opinion, the GZ37 is superior to a plastic base GZ34?


----------



## jc9394

They both have their advantages but the gz37 is less, so yes I recommend it instead.


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They both have their advantages but the gz37 is less, so yes I recommend it instead.


 


 Sorry for the barrage of questions, but you seem to have rolled a lot of tubes.  Have you ever heard the Tung Sol 5U4G?  And if so, how does it compare to the Mullard GZ37?


----------



## davidvanderbilt

Has anyone tried the WA6 with Senn HD 598s? I am having trouble finding anyone that has. If so, how did it change the sound?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Sorry for the barrage of questions, but you seem to have rolled a lot of tubes.  Have you ever heard the Tung Sol 5U4G?  And if so, how does it compare to the Mullard GZ37?


 


  I have not tried the TS 5U4G yet but do have a Sylvania, the Sylvania has wider soundstage but lack of the details and dynamic of the Mullard GZ34/37.  For WA6, the Mullard is THE rectifier to have compare to the EML and Sofia.  I did not get a chance to tried the 596, sold my WA6 maxxed long before I know 596 is compatible.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Ok so there are limited driver tube upgrades for the WA6SE, I really want to get some of these 6SN7/ish driver tubes, I'm wondering how much it will hurt the tube to run them on the SE; Jack mentioned that it can damage the tube, if I'm spending big $ on them I'd be concerned.. For those who have run the 6SN7s on the SE (Silent One - hope you can chime in here); do you notice the amp running warmer or weird sounds coming from the tubes? I don't know the mechanics of the amps that well but does anyone know why or how the amp would damage the driver tubes? And I guess if its something that can be ignored (i.e. it will just slightly decrease the life of the tubes).
> 
> On another note, I finally decided on a turntable. Going with the recently released Pro-Ject Debut Carbon in red ) got a new bookshelf and cambridge audio phono preamp hopefully ill have pictures of everything up soon.


 

  
  Greetings Ahzari! Nice looking TT... can't wait to see some of your vinyl selections. Regarding 6SN7 tubes and the _6 Special Edition, _Jack has traditionally opposed running this series with the amp. His view remains unchanged. He's addressed this a few times but has not made his view clear - rhyme & reason. 
   
  I only waited three months before getting on the _6SN7 Express! _With stock 6EW7's, the Woo ran hot, be it July or January! I recently joked here just over a week ago, that with 6SN7's, my Woo ran so cool I had to check incoming voltage! Barely warm... and I loved it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As to tube longevity and noise, no noises emanating from the tubes ever and haven't experienced any premature tube deaths. I'd like to see others weigh-in who had/have the _6 Special Edition _and 6SN7 tubes. Maybe someone is on the other side of my experience. Would I do it all over again? Absolutely!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings Ahzari! Nice looking TT... can't wait to see some of your vinyl selections. Regarding 6SN7 tubes and the _6 Special Edition, _Jack has traditionally opposed running this series with the amp. His view remains unchanged. He's addressed this a few times but has not made his view clear - rhyme & reason.
> 
> I only waited three months before getting on the _6SN7 Express! _With stock 6EW7's, the Woo ran hot, be it July or January! I recently joked here just over a week ago, that with 6SN7's, my Woo ran so cool I had to check incoming voltage! Barely warm... and I loved it!
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the response Silent One, yea I think I'm ready for the 6SN7 wagon too (its been about 3 months as well!). I currently have 6EW7s, 6FD7s, and 6DE7s; the DE7/EW7 sound very similar (from the tubes I've tried) the FD7 has much better bass extension but its a higher gain tube so there is quite a bit of noise coming in from my low imp phones.
   
  It would informative to see if anyone has had a different experience than you.. if not, I'll be getting those adaptors


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





johmem said:


> I'm looking for some advice on rectifiers for my WA6 (maxxed) too.  Is it worth it to spend money on more NOS rectifiers to try, or should I just get an EML 5U4G instead?  I have a Tung Sol 5U4G that I like better than my Sopia right now, and I'm curious about GZ37s, 34s, 5R4GY's etc.  But I would actually spend more money on nice specimines of these than just grabbing the expensive EML.
> 
> So what do you guys with lots of tube rolling experince say?  Is the EML the best way to go?
> 
> I listen to Grado RS1i's right now, mainly rock, classic to metal.


 

 The Brimar made 5R4GY is an excellent place to start rectifier rolling.  They do all things well, a good alternative to a Sophia or EML IMO.  Beyond that it depends upon your preferences as they all have different strengths and you'll get different results with different output tubes too.  I really like my Mullard GZ33 for example but it is a very different sounding tube from my EML 274B.  They both have their place.


----------



## PanamaRed

In case someone needs a Woo Audio Headphone Stand (or two)...
   
  I just listed some: http://www.head-fi.org/t/604435/woo-audio-universal-adjustible-height-aluminum-headphone-stand-s-two-for-sale


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Many will say the EML is better than the Sophia, but I liked the Sophia better for the type of music I listen to (electronic/pop/lounge). The the EML had a better soundstage (slightly) but I felt it lacked some bass - and I like my bass, the Sophia does bass really well. Thats the only place I can comment, don't have much experience with NOS rectifiers.


 
   
  Actually I enjoy both FWIW. I think I slightly prefer the Sophia (slightly better imaging and dynamics), but it could also be my audio memory playing tricks on me as waiting for tubes to cool down before swapping takes some time.


----------



## Rawrbington

Tonight I'm digging in for a long listening session with my 2 per amping my pioneer sx 950 playing my ads speakers. Got half a bottle of Dalwhinnie, some smoke and endless great music. 3 songs in and im enjoying it thoroughly. Just hope the neighbors are enjoying it as well


----------



## Csericks

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Tonight I'm digging in for a long listening session with my 2 per amping my pioneer sx 950 playing my ads speakers. Got half a bottle of Dalwhinnie, some smoke and endless great music. 3 songs in and im enjoying it thoroughly. Just hope the neighbors are enjoying it as well


 
  You gonna send a set list?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Tonight I'm digging in for a long listening session with my 2 per amping my pioneer sx 950 playing my ads speakers. Got half a bottle of Dalwhinnie, some smoke and endless great music. 3 songs in and im enjoying it thoroughly. Just hope the neighbors are enjoying it as well


 
   
  For me, this post has more questions than answers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, you're still my fellow head-fier and Woo mate, so... cheers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





csericks said:


> You gonna send a set list?


 
   
  (Silent One quietly joins Csericks waiting for a playlist to emerge...)


----------



## Pudu

[quote="Silent]. For me, this post has more questions than answers. [/quote]



I think maybe the first half of the Dalwhinnie might be responsible for that.


----------



## Rawrbington

Haha! we can thank scotch and auto correct for that. 
Yeah pre amping 
I actually corrected amping from something else it put there but missed the per. 

So far the set list has been dire straits self titled, clutchs blast tyrant, my morning jackets it still moves and some Bonnie prince billy

It's nice how the detail of the woo bleeds through into the pioneer. The 950 on its own doesn't pull is much out of the music. And a small portion of the mids from say 1500 to 2000 kHz is the weak spot of the ads so it helps there a bit too


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I think maybe the first half of the Dalwhinnie might be responsible for that.


 


  Thanks, Pudu. You're a fine connoisseur of music and drink in your own right. Though, I had not heard of Dalwhinnie before, it's what came after that raised my eyebrow...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Does anyone know if new amp shipments from Woo require signature in order to be dropped off? My shipment is going through Fedex and I don't see anywhere whether it will get dropped off or whether I'll be stuck for a week trying to get to Fedex after hours.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Haha! we can thank scotch and auto correct for that.
> Yeah pre amping
> I actually corrected amping from something else it put there but missed the per.
> So far the set list has been dire straits self titled, clutchs blast tyrant, my morning jackets it still moves and some Bonnie prince billy
> It's nice how the detail of the woo bleeds through into the pioneer. The 950 on its own doesn't pull is much out of the music. And a small portion of the mids from say 1500 to 2000 kHz is the weak spot of the ads so it helps there a bit too


 

 I'm still waiting to hear my OTL used as a "Pre" to my SX-650. My 1/4" Mono Wireworld Equinox Interconnects need RCA adapters. I tried cheap RCA cables that come with most consumer AV products and it was t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e... definitely the cable!


----------



## Rawrbington

My 650 sounds ok with the woo as a pre. But it doesn't have the main ins in the back like the 950. And the main in actually somehow lowers noise and just sounds a little more "right" than plugging it into the aux or tape inputs. 

But I do think I liked the headphone jack maybe slightly better on the 650; unfortunately it's on loan to a friend so I can't a/b them. My theory is its the output impedance on the 950 probably being really high due to it having to be resisted a lot more than on the 30 watts of the 650. 

I've moved onto Neil Young live at massey hall


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Does anyone know if new amp shipments from Woo require signature in order to be dropped off? My shipment is going through Fedex and I don't see anywhere whether it will get dropped off or whether I'll be stuck for a week trying to get to Fedex after hours.


 

 Here's what I would do and here's why! I'd call FedEx Customer Service and status the package - you'll find the answer in a couple of minutes. If WooAudio has not specified "Signature Requested," you may do so with the representative over the phone if that's your wish.
   
  Sounds like you just wanted dropped, yes? I requested USPS & "Signature Required" for my Woo and Jack obliged. After it finally shipped week 8, I received email notification for FedEx, "Signature Required," so I rolled with it and tracked it. On delivery day, I kept checking, waiting and listening for the truck to come by... and ring the door bell. 
   
  Finally, after hearing the truck make a stop down the street, I got excited. But the delivery truck was out of view some three homes away. So, I waited. And waited. No one came to the door or so I thought. And the driver drove off. Jumped on my computer and nothin'! Like an expected father, I paced. Maybe the driver will come back through.
   
  Once I heard the driver leave the general neighborhood, I called. It was a busy Friday but eventually got hold of a rep some 12 minutes later. The rep confirmed the package was left on the doorstep - the website for tracking was behind and didn't show the update. The driver FAILED to ring or knock for a signature. Further, it appears he passed the house, parked and walked the package over and simply left it on the doorstep. I called back to complain and discovered it was a substitute driver - my guy had the day off!
   
  Had someone left with my Woo without me knowing it was out there, I would have called Jack up with no shame at all... _"Wassup, baby?! Your amp is missin'!!!"_


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Silent One. Yeah, I am hoping it doesn't require a signature, because it becomes a real pain to ever get where I can stop by and pick it up. I have a pretty long commute and classes at night. I get packages all the time and around where I live, they are always discreetly left and always there. I never had any issues. I'll probably give FedEx a call. This one is probably worth it. 
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Here's what I would do and here's why! I'd call FedEx Customer Service and status the package - you'll find the answer in a couple of minutes. If WooAudio has not specified "Signature Requested," you may do so with the representative over the phone if that's your wish.
> 
> Sounds like you just wanted dropped, yes? I requested USPS & "Signature Required" for my Woo and Jack obliged. After it finally shipped week 8, I received email notification for FedEx, "Signature Required," so I rolled with it and tracked it. On delivery day, I kept checking, waiting and listening for the truck to come by... and ring the door bell.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One. Yeah, I am hoping it doesn't require a signature, because it becomes a real pain to ever get where I can stop by and pick it up. I have a pretty long commute and classes at night. I get packages all the time and around where I live, they are always discreetly left and always there. I never had any issues. I'll probably give FedEx a call. This one is probably worth it.


 


  You're welcome. I remember Delivery Day like it was yesterday. I was extremely excited - my very first vacuum tube amplifier - delivered on a beautiful Friday afternoon. Knowing dinner would soon be close and I was too preoccupied to cook, I ordered a Large Shrimp Pizza for delivery, so I wouldn't have to be interrupted cooking on Saturday either! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was ALL WOO ALL weekend!!!


----------



## Ahzari

Hey Woo fans, are there any WA6/SE owners, current/previous that have 6SN7 adapters they are looking to sell?? I would be interested (PM please).


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> Broadly speaking, do you guys have any brands of new tube you've had positive experience with (not necessarily rock your world stuff, but not bad)
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:


 


  Takatsuki
  Shugaung
  Psvane
  EML
  Sovtek
  JJ
   
  Positive experiences of tubes from all of these brands, QC at JJ isn't what it once was but I thoroughly enjoyed the 300b in my Woo as well as the ECC803S Telefunken clone and EC99 in my Mapletree EAR.
   
  Not so positive was my dicky Sophia, however a years use wasn't terrible, just not great.
   
  Bear in mind I own a very small sample of tubes from these manufacturers, its just my "mileage"


----------



## cacatalysis

EH 6SN7 with gold pins is also excellent.  There is an old post on head-fi about different 6SN7 commented the EH 6SN7 is as good as the sylvania 6SN7.  That mirrors with my impression.  I also think Shuguang CV181 is another excellent 6SN7 in production.  For a price of 120 a pair is OK.  It does not worth the over $200 asking price.


----------



## jc9394

The Brimar CV1988 is also excellent sounding tube but it did not get a lot of love here.


----------



## Silent One

It is my hope, that with the interests in dedicated tube amps growing and sales to follow, that tube manufacturers raise the level of their game.


----------



## john57

and hopefully more new tube reissues and designs as well.


----------



## Johmem

So, as my tube addiction grows, I am also thinking of getting some 6SN7 adapters for my WA6.  The main problem is that, along with metal based GZ34s, the most well regarded 6SN7s are more than I am willing to spend.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Are any of the more pedestrian 6SN7s a significant upgrade to the stock tube variants?  I have some of the nicer stock tube variants I think.  One nice thing about buying rectifiers and 6SN7s it that they will fit a WA22, which is my goal someday.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





johmem said:


> So, as my tube addiction grows, I am also thinking of getting some 6SN7 adapters for my WA6.  The main problem is that, along with metal based GZ34s, the most well regarded 6SN7s are more than I am willing to spend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If I were looking at this question of "significant upgrade" in a vacuum, I'd say "yes" with confidence! But, since everything matters, I'd lean toward "likely." This is because there's such a wide variety of 6SN7's, you're bound to find something outside of premium tubes that could satisfy more so than stock.
   
  Additionally, it has been my experience that sources, cabling and other accessories can lean in favor or against a particular drive, power and/or rectifier tube. Our hobby should always be fun but not always easy or the appreciation factor would be worthless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And while tube rolling can be interesting, fellow member 'sillysally' once, so eloquently reminded us, that if you roll around too long you could have had the premium tubes you wanted in the first place. This isn't a direct quote, rather I'm translating his point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hope you get that WA22!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Looks like it's pretty rare to find a WA2 or a WA6SE used for sale or trade around here.


----------



## Pudu

Sign of a great amp. 

Alas.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Looks like it's pretty rare to find a WA2 or a WA6SE used for sale or trade around here.


 

 Last year, I spent a good 8 months in hot pursuit (you know, with extra dough falling about...) of a Pre-Owned WA22. Nearly everyone engaged me respectfully, but nuthin' doin'.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Sign of a great amp.
> Alas.


 

 As a former owner (but still united in spirit), I'm glad the amps aren't numerous - going from niche product to commodity.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Last year, I spent a good 8 months in hot pursuit (you know, with extra dough falling about...) of a Pre-Owned WA22. Nearly everyone engaged me respectfully, but nuthin' doin'.


 


  I'll probably be in hot pursuit for a long time, but my persistence will pay off one of these days.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I'll probably be in hot pursuit for a long time, but my persistence will pay off one of these days.


 


  It will pay off and at a better price for you and your patience. They saw me coming.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But, I didn't mind 'cause I had a Plan B & C.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Are any of the more pedestrian 6SN7s a significant upgrade to the stock tube variants?


 

  This is an interesting reference for 6SN7 exploration:
   
  https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7_poll.php?poll=3&results=1


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well, here you go. WA22 still in warranty.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/599318/woo-audio-wa22-mint-condition


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Well, here you go. WA22 still in warranty.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/599318/woo-audio-wa22-mint-condition


 

 Thanks. I executed Plan B, so I'm still in recovery right now...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> This is an interesting reference for 6SN7 exploration:
> 
> https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7_poll.php?poll=3&results=1


 


  Initially, I stayed away from the much heralded TS-BGRP's to protest the artificially high prices. For 15 months.
   
  And prices rose anyway! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now, we're owners of TS-BGRP VT-231's mid 1940's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My best sounding to date.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. I executed Plan B, so I'm still in recovery right now...


 


  And what was this plan B that you so speak of?


----------



## PanamaRed

Have some GEC 6AS7's that I would prefer go to a fellow woo owner:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/604739/gec-6as7-brown-base-nos-matched-pair


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Have some GEC 6AS7's that I would prefer go to a fellow woo owner:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/604739/gec-6as7-brown-base-nos-matched-pair


 


  PM sent...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> And what was this plan B that you so speak of?


 


  Shut out of WA22dom, I elected to buy a custom built 2359glenn-spec OTL amp, with tube compliments 3DG4 rectifier; Tung-Sol 5998 power tubes; Tung-Sol BGRP VT-231 drive tube. In-progress, new Maple platforms and 3"x3" brass footers @ 5lbs each for the amp. And get the "X" mod for the amp to allow the 5998's to run at a higher plate current with a switch.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

I was looking at some JJs as they seem be their own entity. I wouldn't be suprised if they did OEM work on the side to boost the bottom line.
   
  The New Sensor corporation seems to own all the old NOS names. People have varying opinions on these, so it seem reasonable to conclude they're not all the same. But QC ought to be if they're coming from the same place. Right?

 How much 'mileage' to you rack up? I use my amp like I use my PC. Still early days for me before I can determine how frequently I'll be changing valves. Running them in to the dirt not withstanding.
  Quote: 





san raal said:


> Takatsuki
> Shugaung
> Psvane
> EML
> ...


----------



## Johmem

Looking through Ebay, it's nice to see several pages of 6SN7 pairs, with really only a small handfull of the "special" ones at extreme prices.  There are even a few new production versions available like an upgraded version of the treasures.  This is in contrast to the NOS only, dwindling supply of nice 6DE7 variants.
   
  I guess I need to find out if Glenn still sells 6SN7 adapters that will fit the small holes in my early WA6.  I think I will pick up a pair of RCA/Sylvania/GE/Tung Sol that seem to range from $30 to 60 per pair.


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





grokit said:


> This is an interesting reference for 6SN7 exploration:
> 
> https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7_poll.php?poll=3&results=1


 


 Thanks for that link.  It would be even better if they linked good photos of each.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Looking through Ebay, it's nice to see several pages of 6SN7 pairs, with really only a small handfull of the "special" ones at extreme prices.  There are even a few new production versions available like an upgraded version of the treasures.  This is in contrast to the NOS only, dwindling supply of nice 6DE7 variants.
> 
> I guess I need to find out if Glenn still sells 6SN7 adapters that will fit the small holes in my early WA6.  I think I will pick up a pair of RCA/Sylvania/GE/Tung Sol that seem to range from $30 to 60 per pair.


 

 May I suggest you post a "WTB" Ad in the For Sale/Trade section here on HF? This will advance your effort, just in case.


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





grokit said:


> This is an interesting reference for 6SN7 exploration:
> 
> https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7_poll.php?poll=3&results=1


 


 No runaway winners there . Makes me think that various source/cable pairing could tilt that survey many different ways, perhaps even make it useless in the end.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would totally buy that WA22 but i would have to sell my WA6-SE and my WA2...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i would totally buy that WA22 but i would have to sell my WA6-SE and my WA2...




If you have a balanced source already, it is worth it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i know but selling them is a pain, and i would have to make sure i get  it for that 1600 price, cause if he sells first, i wont have the cash to buy a new wa22 from jack. 
   
  plus i'll lose money becasue i'll have to sell the amps less. and theres alot of lowballers on head-fi i would have to deal with.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i know but selling them is a pain, and i would have to make sure i get  it for that 1600 price, cause if he sells first, i wont have the cash to buy a new wa22 from jack.
> 
> plus i'll lose money becasue i'll have to sell the amps less. and theres alot of lowballers on head-fi i would have to deal with.


 


  I understand what you mean, I had to deal with this until I'm here now with WA22.  PM the seller if you can work out a deal with him/her to see if it can be hold until you sell your WA2 and WA6SE.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i would totally buy that WA22 but i would have to sell my WA6-SE and my WA2...


 


  If nuthin' else, it's the right color 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and you too, could have avatars like this one:
   
   




   
  Hope you PM the seller and find that they're flexible... like _Gumby._


----------



## jc9394

Hmm, how about this?


----------



## grokit

^ Very nice! BTW, I have some tubes for sale.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

that looks so cool wow lol. u guys are terrible, so tempting!!
   
   
  umm i have several questions i wanted to make sure of if i do get a WA22
   
   
  1. if i have single-ended headphones but a balanced source for my WA22, will i see improvements over what i have and will it be similar to having balanced headphones
   
  2. i know i can keep my sophia 274b and syl 7236, but what about the 6sn7 tubes it has?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> that looks so cool wow lol. u guys are terrible, so tempting!!
> 
> 
> umm i have several questions i wanted to make sure of if i do get a WA22
> ...


 

  
  Yes, the biggest improvement on WA22 is balanced source.  I think there is no difference on SE or balanced headphone because the way Jack wired the output.  I do not notice any difference on my HD800 when I use balanced cable and balanced>SE adapter.
   
  You can use 6SN7 or 6F8G with an adapter, there are much more choice on tube rolling but it can be very expensive on 6SN7.
   
  Grokit, have a pair of the bad boys for sale.
   
*Sylvania 6SN7 GT "Bad Boy" driver tubes, $120/pair*


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> that looks so cool wow lol. u guys are terrible, so tempting!!
> 
> 
> umm i have several questions i wanted to make sure of if i do get a WA22
> ...


 

  
  I think MacedonianHero had the WA6/WA2 and liked the WA22 better.  Might see what he has to say.  
   
  I use the WA22 single ended.  I don't feel I'm missing anything.  I'm not sure of the maths involved, but I read the WA22 is balanced even when using single-ended headphones if you use a balanced source.
   
  You absolutely need a balanced source.  Jack says his other amps sound better single-ended.


----------



## davidio

Quote: 





johmem said:


> I'm looking for some advice on rectifiers for my WA6 (maxxed) too.  Is it worth it to spend money on more NOS rectifiers to try, or should I just get an EML 5U4G instead?  I have a Tung Sol 5U4G that I like better than my Sopia right now, and I'm curious about GZ37s, 34s, 5R4GY's etc.  But I would actually spend more money on nice specimines of these than just grabbing the expensive EML.
> 
> So what do you guys with lots of tube rolling experince say?  Is the EML the best way to go?
> 
> I listen to Grado RS1i's right now, mainly rock, classic to metal.


 
  Well,
  There are threads about that very subject, if you look them up.  As a classic rock listener, I can tell you most drivers, 6sn7 and otherwise, sound great with the Sophia Princess.  If you really move up to say, the Mullard CV181s, the GZ34 metal base is perfect.  I have these two rectifiers and I'm set for any drivers you can throw at me.  The GZ34 is more close sounding and has greater expansion and warmth in the midrange; the Princess has a more open sound that can really capture the elements in their stage space.  Both have good bass and punch.  My fave right now:  GZ34 Holland Mullard, 1957.  Great for classic rock.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i know but selling them is a pain, and i would have to make sure i get  it for that 1600 price, cause if he sells first, i wont have the cash to buy a new wa22 from jack.
> 
> plus i'll lose money becasue i'll have to sell the amps less. and theres alot of lowballers on head-fi i would have to deal with.


 


  We know what you mean. Alternatively, be sure to list on Audiogon as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hmm, how about this?


 
   

*Free Wallpaper!*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, the biggest improvement on WA22 is balanced source.  I think there is no difference on SE or balanced headphone because the way Jack wired the output.  I do not notice any difference on my HD800 when I use balanced cable and balanced>SE adapter.
> 
> You can use 6SN7 or 6F8G with an adapter, there are much more choice on tube rolling but it can be very expensive on 6SN7.
> 
> ...


 

 I'd like to add to this well qualified post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, that I agree the balanced source is key. It is my understanding that once the amp receives the additional voltage with cross mode rejection, the amp's job is done. Listening through balanced cans vs single-ended could be the same or different, but for different reasons. 
   
  The aim is different for balancing the amp and balancing headphones - two different objectives. So, why do people get balanced cans? Not every balanced amp will have SE headphone jacks. But, rewiring headphones is a chance to use superior conductors and connectors. And this can result in lower inductive loss, lower cross-talk/isolation and lower resistance inside the cans. Offering greater detail and spaciousness. By how much? Like everything else (YMMV), that will depend on everything else in the system. Given the opportunity to receive my cans with a shared ground wire and 32awg versus a complete and separate cup-to-adapter 4x22awg option and... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Me? I can testify - I've heard the WA22 in both balanced and non-balanced mode when fed. With SE cans, balanced cans and then with my own balanced cans with SE adapter. For me, the Zeus balanced cabling was a very nice choice indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I cannot (and would not) speak for anyone else.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm, thanks.
   
   
  well i received a few pms about WA22 for sale.
   
   
  i don't know how much i could sell each of my woo amps for.
   
  think i could get 1000 for WA2 and 950 for WA6-SE?
   
  stock tubes for both they're like new.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm, thanks.
> 
> 
> well i received a few pms about WA22 for sale.
> ...


 

 Well brand new from Woo they sell for 1090 and 1050; the only problem I see selling at that price is a buyer may opt a few bucks more for a new unit so they have the full year warranty (not knowing when you originally purchased your amps). Though these are well built, hopefully no one would ever need to use the warranties. Also would that price include shipping and Paypal fees? if so that may be a more attractive offer.


----------



## Ahzari

All this talk about the WA22 now I'm interested.. haha. Maybe down the road once the upgraditis starts back up


----------



## jc9394

I will ask 900 for each and am sure you will sell them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> All this talk about the WA22 now I'm interested.. haha. Maybe down the road once the upgraditis starts back up


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm, thanks.
> 
> 
> well i received a few pms about WA22 for sale.
> ...


 

 I know you've been a positive influence on your roomy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That could lead to the direct or indirect sale of one your fine hand crafted examples...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I think MacedonianHero had the WA6/WA2 and liked the WA22 better.  Might see what he has to say.
> 
> I use the WA22 single ended.  I don't feel I'm missing anything.  I'm not sure of the maths involved, but I read the WA22 is balanced even when using single-ended headphones if you use a balanced source.
> 
> You absolutely need a balanced source.  Jack says his other amps sound better single-ended.


 

 I did own the WA2 for several months before selling it for the WA22. I am one happy camper with the WA22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In case you're interested in my thoughts between the two:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/562618/woo-audio-wa2-and-wa22-comparisons-finally-finished-whew
   
  I have never owned the WA6, but I have heard it many, many times through the past few years. For at it's price point, there is no more versatile tube amp that I could recommend. It was that good.
   
  Back to the WA22, IME, a balanced source is key to really let the amp truly shine (as Silent One so very eloquently mentioned). But by the looks of it, Dubstep Girl has a PS Audio DLIII (with balanced outputs), so she should be good to go as far as that's concerned. It could sound very good with a single ended source, no doubt, but it does kick it up a notch with a balanced source.


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ Very nice! BTW, I have some tubes for sale.


 


  PM sent... thanks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ Very nice! BTW, I have some tubes for sale.


 


  Must have been dinner - suddenly, I feel renewed... and interested in getting some Glass. Got any 6F8G TS-BGRP's lurking around? I've grown use to your avatar hangin' upside down... we like it!


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Dubstep Girl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> i don't know how much i could sell each of my woo amps for.
> 
> think i could get 1000 for WA2 and 950 for WA6-SE?
> ...


 


  There is interest in the forsale area for a 6SE
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/602305/wtb-woo-audio-wa6se


----------



## Austin Morrow

So I've gone through the first 500 pages and want more pictures. If you have a picture of a Woo, post it!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So I've gone through the first 500 pages and want more pictures. If you have a picture of a Woo, post it!


 


  this thread has a few more pics or Woo 6/SE's
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587285/woo-audio-wa6-wa6se-tubes-comments-pictures-and-advice/180#post_8292792


----------



## Silent One

My beautiful Black one-time Woo is en route to Malaysia. Perhaps, the new owner will "shoot it!"


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> this thread has a few more pics or Woo 6/SE's
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587285/woo-audio-wa6-wa6se-tubes-comments-pictures-and-advice/180#post_8292792


 


  Looked through every page of that thread already, some good visual stuff, but not a lot. I'll just keep looking through here.


----------



## Austin Morrow

My new review over at the different section of Head-Fi for the WA6 is up. http://bit.ly/Hx9v02


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oooh thanks pmed him


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Grokit, have a pair of the bad boys for sale.
> *Sylvania 6SN7 GT "Bad Boy" driver tubes, $120/pair*


 

 They're gone, along with all the others except for one pair of 2399/5998 and a couple of good, inexpensive rectifiers. That didn't take long!
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I do have a beautiful pair of those with a set of Glenn's 6SN7 adapters. Maybe I will list them next time around after some critical listening time. Then again, maybe not!

  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oooh thanks pmed him


 

 Hope it works out, good luck!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> They're gone, along with all the others except for one pair of 2399/5998 and a couple of good, inexpensive rectifiers. That didn't take long!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
   
  (Silent One ponders turning his avatar upside down... in a sincere attempt to bond with the seller)


----------



## Johmem

Well, it looks like my pursuit of 6SN7s for my WA6 may have come to an unexpected halt (I can hear my wallet breath a sigh of relief).  It seems that adapters that will fit the small driver tube openings in my WA6 are going to be hard to get.  Unless somebody sees my want ad for adapters, the only way I can accomplish this is by stacking adapters on top of socket savers.  I'm not to sure about having that many unsoldered connections and the whole "wobbly" factor.
   
  Any ideas your GuWoos?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





johmem said:


> Well, it looks like my pursuit of 6SN7s for my WA6 may have come to an unexpected halt (I can hear my wallet breath a sigh of relief).  It seems that adapters that will fit the small driver tube openings in my WA6 are going to be hard to get.  Unless somebody sees my want ad for adapters, the only way I can accomplish this is by stacking adapters on top of socket savers.  I'm not to sure about having that many unsoldered connections and the whole "wobbly" factor.
> 
> Any ideas your GuWoos?


 


  Although, "stacking" is doable, since you're not regulated to duty at 'Thule Air Base' and have access to better solutions, I'd skip it! If you are patient and wait for 2359glenn to re-emerge from standing orders (hand crafting world class amps), he might be able to provide you with a solution (adapters). Perhaps, May?


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Although, "stacking" is doable, since you're not regulated to duty at 'Thule Air Base' and have access to better solutions, I'd skip it! If you are patient and wait for 2359glenn to re-emerge from standing orders (hand crafting world class amps), he might be able to provide you with a solution (adapters). Perhaps, May?


 


 I don't know, but I can hope.  He flatly told me he is no longer making them, and I hesitate to hound him since I understand he is now producing an increasingly popular amp and tube adapters probably seem like a PITA now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





johmem said:


> I don't know, but I can hope.  He flatly told me he is no longer making them, and I hesitate to hound him since I understand he is now producing an increasingly popular amp and tube adapters probably seem like a PITA now.


 







 Oh. And it didn't help that sourcing; pin availability, had become increasingly difficult and time-consuming. If you're not ready for the _6 Special Edition _(this is what I'd strive for with a few hundred dollars more... _you're so close_), think about selling your WA6 and pursuing another '6' that's manufactured post April 2010. However, the _Special Edition_ will make your time and energy worthwhile.


----------



## Silent One

Just learned 2359glenn received his MOT - Member of the Trade designation...


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oh. And it didn't help that sourcing; pin availability, had become increasingly difficult and time-consuming. If you're not ready for the _6 Special Edition _(this is what I'd strive for with a few hundred dollars more... _you're so close_), think about selling your WA6 and pursuing another '6' that's manufactured post April 2010. However, the _Special Edition_ will make your time and energy worthwhile.


 


 All good suggestions.  Aesthetically, I really like the WA6 form factor, and not so much dual chassis stuff, just my taste I guess.  As far as pursuing a newer WA6, this one has Blackgates and V-caps, which I hesitate to give up.  It sounds really nice with the stock driver family, partially due to the upgraded components I'm sure, and I don't know that the ability to roll another type of tube would be worth the trade-off.   As I've mentioned before, I would love to eventually get a WA22, but that is a huge upgrade, especially figuring in a balanced DAC as well.


----------



## Xcalibur255

That's a hard call for sure.  Having the smaller socket locks you out of the fat bottle 6EW7 and 6FD7 tubes too.  Have you considered contacting Jack Wu and seeing if you can get the aluminum top plate replaced?  The subplate beneath where the sockets are mounted is likely open and if I recall the top plate is just a small piece bolted onto the chassis so it might not cost very much to replace it with a new one that has the bigger cutouts.


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> That's a hard call for sure.  Having the smaller socket locks you out of the fat bottle 6EW7 and 6FD7 tubes too.  Have you considered contacting Jack Wu and seeing if you can get the aluminum top plate replaced?  The subplate beneath where the sockets are mounted is likely open and if I recall the top plate is just a small piece bolted onto the chassis so it might not cost very much to replace it with a new one that has the bigger cutouts.


 


 I am currently using fat bottle tubes via a socket saver, and it seems to work fine.  I am however a little worried that stacking another adapter on top of them may not be optimal.
   
  I have emailed Jack, he cannot make me adapters and he cannot modify the amp in any way.  He actually claims that "the chassis is fixed and cannot be cut open".
   
  The top plate is fairly easy to remove, and I could easily widen the holes, but the actual chassis itself has the same size holes underneath the plate that would also need to be enlarged.  I would be up against running a tool with all the internals in place and trying to deal with metal shavings everywhere inside.


----------



## Silent One

Johmem, I forgot you had the _good stuff_ inside.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In this case, I'd stack the tubes/space savers while I stacked the Ben Franks for the '22.'


----------



## Draygonn

austin morrow said:


> So I've gone through the first 500 pages and want more pictures. If you have a picture of a Woo, post it!


----------



## Pudu




----------



## Silent One

Draygonn; Pudu - These photographs stun & delight! So motivated, I may borrow a Woo just to shoot it!


----------



## jc9394

Old pics of my 22...
   



   
  my flavor tube combo
   



   
  and the handy work of our friend Danny and Jack Wu.


----------



## Ahzari

Wow... beautiful pics !


----------



## Dubstep Girl

omg jc i really want one now!!
   
  looks really cool in that first pic, and premium tubes too, very nice.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> HD800 & WA2


 


  This I want.

  
  Quote:  





> T1 & WA2


 


  This I crave.


  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Old pics of my 22...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  And this, oh this, I dream of.


----------



## Sid-Fi

All three of those pictures are sweeet!
   
  Here's my first picture to add for now - a quick one from my cell phone from oh...about 10 minutes ago.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My beautiful Black one-time Woo is en route to Malaysia. Perhaps, the new owner will "shoot it!"


 


  The new owner needs to get home from Malaysia first. I'm still wondering if I'll be able to safely transport the Gentle Beast back with me. There is certainly a will, and thusly, a way. I just don't wanna be detained and stripped searched because some TSA agent thinks the Woo is a trigger mechanism for a nuclear bomb.
   
  I will take pictures when I first get home. Probably too many pictures. I was a film/photo major, and I am in love with the WA6SE. Dangerous combo. I'll be home May 16th - 27th and will set up and get some snappies then.


----------



## Sid-Fi

First look at getting setup - stuck with cell phones pics for now. It's going to be awhile before I can get any meaningful impressions. I have a brand new power cable, brand new silver interconnects, brand new stock tubes in, and the new amp all breaking in at the same time. I'm going to break it in with stock tubes since the better old stock tubes I bought are used and already broken in. Plus once its fully broken in and I'm used to the sound, I'll be much better able to gauge any difference from the tubes.

 The quality of the packaging and the amp blew my mind. It came totally encased in this high quality custom fit foam interior that had perfectly shaped compartments in it for the tubes so they wouldn't move. I've never seen any packaging like it. It was like a foam bank vault, I could barely get the foam enclosure out of the box. The amp itself has a really high quality looking chassis with nice finish. It feels very heavy and substantial and tight. The tube sockets were really tight as well as I was almost worried pushing a couple of the tubes in. Very nice fit and finish.

 A couple super early impressions. There was a very subtle hum in the left ear cup of my HD 650 on high gain, but it was very quiet with no discernible noise at all on low gain. I can't say that I'm wowed right away, but I get the strong impression it will be really refined once it and all of the new components settle in. It seems like ti will have a lot of authority, and that it will have much better impact and dynamics than I am used too. I'm sure the old stock sylvania chrome dome 6sn7, sylvania 7236, and mullard gz37 should make a big difference once everything settles in and I swap them in.

 Not a whole to go off of just yet, but this thing screams pride of ownership.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> First look at getting setup - stuck with cell phones pics for now. It's going to be awhile before I can get any meaningful impressions. I have a brand new power cable, brand new silver interconnects, brand new stock tubes in, and the new amp all breaking in at the same time. I'm going to break it in with stock tubes since the better old stock tubes I bought are used and already broken in. Plus once its fully broken in and I'm used to the sound, I'll be much better able to gauge any difference from the tubes.
> 
> The quality of the packaging and the amp blew my mind. It came totally encased in this high quality custom fit foam interior that had perfectly shaped compartments in it for the tubes so they wouldn't move. I've never seen any packaging like it. It was like a foam bank vault, I could barely get the foam enclosure out of the box. The amp itself has a really high quality looking chassis with nice finish. It feels very heavy and substantial and tight. The tube sockets were really tight as well as I was almost worried pushing a couple of the tubes in. Very nice fit and finish.
> 
> ...


 


  burn in will definitely help, congrats! system looks awesome; black/black always sleek


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> There was a very subtle hum in the left ear cup of my HD 650 on high gain,


 


  That will go away with amp burn-in.  Had the same issue with my WA6 when it was brand new with the same headphones, HD650.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks. I am definitely pumped to finally have it home and setup.
   
  After only a couple hours of listening, I'm already starting to have "grin" moments. Even though it's obvious it isn't broken in, it is already showing me that it will be much more engaging and emotionally involving than my NFB-10WM, which is a pretty good unit for the money in its own right.
   
  Oh man...my wife just came in and turned out the lights and the glow of all five tubes...wow
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> burn in will definitely help, congrats! system looks awesome; black/black always sleek


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> The new owner needs to get home from Malaysia first. I'm still wondering if I'll be able to safely transport the Gentle Beast back with me. There is certainly a will, and thusly, a way. I just don't wanna be detained and stripped searched because some TSA agent thinks the Woo is a trigger mechanism for a nuclear bomb.
> 
> I will take pictures when I first get home. Probably too many pictures. I was a film/photo major, and I am in love with the WA6SE. Dangerous combo. I'll be home May 16th - 27th and will set up and get some snappies then.


 

 The TSA is the least of your concerns - their counterparts on the other side, now that's where it could get interesting. I know you love to write. But let's hope you won't be writing the Malaysian Government for the Woo's release from custody. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok, let's stay positive... you're gonna be just fine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Not a whole to go off of just yet, but this thing screams pride of ownership.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> burn in will definitely help, congrats! system looks awesome; black/black always sleek


 


  x2! Can't wait to get a closer look at the rack; shelves. Also, isn't it interesting that the Woo's best color is in fact, the absence of color? Ok, Silver clad WooAudio amp owners, your amps look great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was merely speaking to concept of Art & Framing...


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> Also, isn't it interesting that the Woo's best color is in fact, the absence of color? Ok, Silver clad WooAudio amp owners, your amps look great! :wink_face:




It's Ok. We don't have to worry about dust. 


Welcome to the club Sid-Fi! Looking nice. The Woo's are always so beautiful.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> It's Ok. We don't have to worry about dust.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Conceding "Best" for maintenance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, are we? Your ensemble looks like a product shot, by the way...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> It's Ok. We don't have to worry about dust.


 


  lol.. thats true but I really like throwing in Red in the mix with all the black


----------



## Silent One

You mean no one else here touches and caresses their Woo after dusting? It's a very sensual thing to do when the surface is clean... and the surface is cool. But this is something that would escape most Silver clad owners, for they'd never know when the surface needed dusting (allegedly.)


----------



## Sid-Fi

ROFL!
   
  @Silent One
  I'll try and grab a couple of better pictures of the racks and gear soon since I only had my cell phone handy for the initial pics. I only have a nice point and shoot compared to the obviously nice SLR everyone on head-fi seems to have.
   
  I really like the rack by VTI. It feels really sturdy and high quality, and I really like the finish on the shelves. It was a nice value to at around $250 with free shipping if I recall correctly.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You mean no one else here touches and caresses their Woo after dusting? It's a very sensual thing to do when the surface is clean... and the surface is cool. But this is something that would escape most Silver clad owners, for they'd never know when the surface needed dusting (allegedly.)


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You mean no one else here touches and caresses their Woo after dusting? It's a very sensual thing to do when the surface is clean... and the surface is cool. But this is something that would escape most Silver clad owners, for they'd never know when the surface needed dusting (allegedly.)


 


  We the silver clad owners does clean our lovely Woo every week.  dust or not.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Wow... beautiful pics !


 

      Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> omg jc i really want one now!!
> 
> looks really cool in that first pic, and premium tubes too, very nice.


 


  Thanks, I will shoot more once my new camera arrive.


  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> This I want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Balanced in to WA22 with LCD-2 or HD800 is to die for...


----------



## Sid-Fi

JC, I have to say that turning off the lights last night and having all five tubes glowing reminded me of your avator, and was just awesome .

  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> We the silver clad owners does clean our lovely Woo every week.  dust or not.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> JC, I have to say that turning off the lights last night and having all five tubes glowing reminded me of your avator, and was just awesome .


 


  It is, when I listening at night, I never turn on the light.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> We the silver clad owners does clean our lovely Woo every week.  dust or not.


 


  I should have known better to make a blanket statement, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 take yourself and Clayton SF for example...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> ROFL!
> 
> @Silent One
> I'll try and grab a couple of better pictures of the racks and gear soon since I only had my cell phone handy for the initial pics. I only have a nice point and shoot compared to the obviously nice SLR everyone on head-fi seems to have.
> ...


 

 Thanks, Sid-Fi. I look forward to seeing your ensemble, up close and intimate. The past two years saw me being cheap, making do with second-hand furniture. It brought joy and a sense of pride when I was able to improvise and make a thing or two work with the makeshift audio racks. I've always appreciated good racks, shelves and cabinets. But, on a shoe-string budget, each time the tea tins filled up cash, opportunity costs reared its head. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now that I've decided to invest in more Maple, suddenly I want the audio rack to be dolled-up. And have begun to pay more attention to what others have inside their listening rooms.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> *Thanks, I will shoot more once my new camera arrive.*
> ...


 


  Knowing you jc9394, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we're in for a treat!


----------



## Sid-Fi

You and me both. I had my DAC/amp combo crammed onto my nightsand for a year and a half. The nightstand has this marble top on it that seemed like it was horrible for vibrations. I just got the new rack this last Christmas. Honestly, the main reason I got it is because an amp upgrade or new headphones were way more than I could expect for Christmas haha.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, Sid-Fi. I look forward to seeing your ensemble, up close and intimate. The past two years saw me being cheap, making do with second-hand furniture. It brought joy and a sense of pride when I was able to improvise and make a thing or two work with the makeshift audio racks. I've always appreciated good racks, shelves and cabinets. But, on a shoe-string budget, each time the tea tins filled up cash, opportunity costs reared its head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## pyramid6

I find these http://isolateit.com/ and a cutting board pretty good to cut down on vibrations.  Cheap and they look good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> You and me both. I had my DAC/amp combo crammed onto my nightsand for a year and a half. The nightstand has this marble top on it that seemed like it was horrible for vibrations. I just got the new rack this last Christmas. Honestly, the main reason I got it is because an amp upgrade or new headphones were way more than I could expect for Christmas haha.


 


  You're sitting on a goldmine, actually. You could approach a few furniture makers of nice wooden audio racks and such, and offer them "Hot weather testing." This in exchange for a one year evaluation in the real world. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Who cares if you run the AC full-blast for six months?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I find these http://isolateit.com/ and a cutting board pretty good to cut down on vibrations.  Cheap and they look good.


 

 Prior to becoming Woo-less, I used a Maple Butcher's Block underneath the twin chassis design of my_ 6 Special Edition_ (18x16x2"). I had intended to experiment with spikes and footers and even another platform or two. I eventually completed experimenting but with an incoming amp.
   
  Key thing to remember about isolating platforms is resonance. So, in addition to eliminating/reducing vibrations, it is also about "tuning." This is critical because the wrong wood-size-density, wrong spikes, wrong footers could deaden the sound or reduce that lively sound. Some Butcher's Blocks have cheap throw-a-way ends that are glued, affecting the resonating properties of the Block.
   
  I'm certainly not an expert. But a caring member who is currently testing this kind of thing and thought to share my trials & tribulations inside the listening room. Hope others will weigh-in on the matter as well. To fellow Woo-mates out there... _"What's underneath your Woo?"_


----------



## Draygonn

I'm definitely getting one of those VTI racks for my secondary rig. Amazing!


----------



## Austin Morrow

So, I've been considering other options as well as the WA2 and the WA6SE. Has anybody tried Little Dot's MK VI+ or MK VIII SE at all? It has a balanced output which I real, really like.


----------



## xinque

Oh wow..  just received my copy of the Sheffield Lab Drum and Track disc..  listening to it for the first time on my WA5 and..  wow..


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, I will shoot more once my new camera arrive.
> ...


 

 X2 (and you can add the LCD-3 and T1 to that list).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> X2 (and you can add the LCD-3 and T1 to that list).


 


  Even my JH13 sound great from it except I have to lower the output of my DAC to 50% to make it listenable and not damage my ears.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Even my JH13 sound great from it except I have to lower the output of my DAC to 50% to make it listenable and not damage my ears.


 

 You don't say...I'll have to try my UE10s and W4s this weekend (I typically use my GS-1 w/DACT for them).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Oh wow..  just received my copy of the Sheffield Lab Drum and Track disc..  listening to it for the first time on my WA5 and..  wow..


 

 That's the kind of evening I would like to have.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Prior to becoming Woo-less, I used a Maple Butcher's Block underneath the twin chassis design of my_ 6 Special Edition_ (18x16x2"). I had intended to experiment with spikes and footers and even another platform or two. I eventually completed experimenting but with an incoming amp.
> 
> Key thing to remember about isolating platforms is resonance. So, in addition to eliminating/reducing vibrations, it is also about "tuning." This is critical because the wrong wood-size-density, wrong spikes, wrong footers could deaden the sound or reduce that lively sound. Some Butcher's Blocks have cheap throw-a-way ends that are glued, affecting the resonating properties of the Block.
> 
> I'm certainly not an expert. But a caring member who is currently testing this kind of thing and thought to share my trials & tribulations inside the listening room. Hope others will weigh-in on the matter as well. To fellow Woo-mates out there... _"What's underneath your Woo?"_


 

 I would think the only thing to worry about is the vibrations inside the tubes.  I can see speakers or turntable needing more effort, but not an amp that has no moving parts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I would think the only thing to worry about is the vibrations inside the tubes.  I can see speakers or turntable needing more effort, but not an amp that has no moving parts.


 

 Certainly, one would want the source to be isolated first - CD/DVD/Music Player and/or DAC, components coming from the top down. But, I would also think that amp you speak of, with no moving parts could very well be affected by ground vibrations, airborne vibrations and those from neighboring components as well as internal. 
   
  Food for thought and discussion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which reminds me, I don't even like/eat popcorn, but I'm ok with the emoticon below.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Old pics of my 22...


 

 More great shots! How do you like those GEC's? I will be rolling in some 1-watt power tubes soon, as I have my trading sights lined up on a balanced D7000. I have some GE and Raytheon 6AS7/6080's, how do the GEC's compare? Are they worth the additional premium? Looks-wise they certainly are!
   
   
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> So, I've been considering other options as well as the WA2 and the WA6SE. Has anybody tried Little Dot's MK VI+ or MK VIII SE at all? It has a balanced output which I real, really like.


 

 I've heard both good and bad things... in other threads of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Welcome to the club Sid-Fi!


 
  X2
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Balanced in to WA22 with LCD-2 or HD800 is to die for...


 
  X3
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> More great shots! How do you like those GEC's? I will be rolling in some 1-watt power tubes soon, *as I have my trading sights lined up on a balanced D7000*. I have some GE and Raytheon 6AS7/6080's, how do the GEC's compare? Are they worth the additional premium? Looks-wise they certainly are!


 

 How my D7000's would list if for sale/trade (_never!_)
   
  Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - XLR (Balanced w/matching adapter)


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How my D7000's would list if for sale/trade (_never!_)
> 
> Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - XLR (Balanced w/matching adapter)


 


  Did you notice a noticeable improvement when balancing the D7000s. If so, what aspects improved?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Did you notice a noticeable improvement when balancing the D7000s. If so, what aspects improved?


 

 No, I did not. This is because I was a front-runner... I ordered them new spec'd out. But for you, I'm visiting shipsupt and Clayton SF in a matter of days; both have stock D7000's. Last year, when I took my Denon's over to shipsupt's, he listened them but I do not remember his comments. Perhaps, he still does... but I'll try to answer that question next week.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No, I did not. This is because I was a front-runner... I ordered them new spec'd out. But for you, I'm visiting shipsupt and Clayton SF in a matter of days; both have stock D7000's. Last year, when I took my Denon's over to shipsupt's, he listened them but I do not remember his comments. Perhaps, he still does... but I'll try to answer that question next week.


 

 Great, looking forward to your comments


----------



## grokit

The one I am hoping to get my mitts on just has the stock cable re-terminated with a 4-pin XLR, nothing fancy. But that stock cable is nothing to sneeze at. It's a little stiff but from what I understand, it uses good quality wire.


----------



## Silent One

I found the same to be true with my stock D5000 - good quality cable.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Great, looking forward to your comments


 

 You must be leaning toward _Balanced. _A BIG Fat Sexy Black WA22!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The one I am hoping to get my mitts on just has the stock cable re-terminated with a 4-pin XLR, nothing fancy. But that stock cable is nothing to sneeze at. It's a little stiff but from what I understand, it uses good quality wire.


 

 If memory serves, you were going to ask Mr. Wu about one last mod to the '22'... what was it again?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You must be leaning toward _Balanced. _A BIG Fat Sexy Black WA22!


 


  lol.. for now in my dreamzzz


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If memory serves, you were going to ask Mr. Wu about one last mod to the '22'... what was it again?


 
   
  I want to give it preamp capability. I know of a couple of members that have had that done, the first with two balanced outs and the other was told he could only have one. I am hoping to get one balanced and one SE out, but would be happy with a a single balanced out if it comes to that. I have already had the inputs changed, to dual balanced with no SE input.
  Then I will be able to join my two systems together in blessed matrimony


----------



## Silent One

_I like your thinking..._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _I like your thinking..._


 


  +1


----------



## greggf

I have a WA6SE being built.  Two questions:
   
  1)  They said it would take 3 weeks.  It was 3 weeks yesterday.    No word yet.  How close does Woo Audio tend to hold to the deadlines they state?  I need to know whether to stock up on Xanax and beer in order to stand a long wait.
   
  2)  Is the wait worth it for a WA6SE?  lol


----------



## roadster-s

It will be 3 weeks waiting for me on Monday, so wondering the same thing as you...


----------



## Silent One

My own order was slowed by the out-of-town attendance of an Audio Show.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sound familiar? This time around, you two are lucky - WooAudio doesn't have far to travel; can resume production quickly. Three weeks? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can spend three weeks alone making perfect tea.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> More great shots! How do you like those GEC's? I will be rolling in some 1-watt power tubes soon, as I have my trading sights lined up on a balanced D7000. I have some GE and Raytheon 6AS7/6080's, how do the GEC's compare? Are they worth the additional premium? Looks-wise they certainly are!


 

 On the GEC, I did have a conversion on this thread with Rob (Skylab) and both of us agreed that 6080 are not really worth it compare to regular 6AS7G with the only exception of GEC.  The GEC 6AS7G raise another level but the gain is lower compare to 7236 and 5998, it is a prefect match to both Denon D700 and HD800 but not so great with LCD.  Every since I got my hands on the GEC 6080, I either gave or sell all other 6080 tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 


  Dubstep Girl, with all the WooAudio amps, headphones, other head-fi accessories you have, they could serve as visual aides while you're studying Mnemonics. I'm sure 'hodgjy' maximized his time this way, too!


----------



## emremusic

I would wait for a WA6SE 6 months if I had to. After the initial burn in period, you'll forget about the wait. I'll upgrade my headphones, my source, but it's the last amp I'll buy. 
   
  Just with the stock tubes alone, it's Dynamic, fast, accurate, quick in all the ranges, the treble range is superb. Everything I want in an amp. 
   
   
  I've decided to upgrade to HD 600's (I've heard them finally this weekend) I was in a mastering studio, and the were using HD 600s. They let me borrow the cans for a day. I got to hear my drums, and cymbals through HD600 and the Woo6SE.
   
  I have to say,* it was perfection.* All the detail in of my cymbals - the initial "ping" attack of the stick through the sustain of the individual rivets in the cymbal was as detailed as what I could hear through hearing them with my own ears, standing on top of the drums. Bass drum, toms, were perfect. 
   
  I'm not an audiophile. I'm a jazz musician in search of the perfect system to listen to acoustic music. I'm not into altering or coloring the recording to fit my taste by buying different headhones/equipment/tubes. I just want to hear what the musicians wanted me to hear. 
   
  I don't know if anybody here talked about the synergy between HD600 and WA6SE, (some people mentioned synergy of AKG 701 and 6SE before) but what heard this weekend was soulful. 
   
   
  Quote: 





greggf said:


> I have a WA6SE being built.  Two questions:
> 
> 1)  They said it would take 3 weeks.  It was 3 weeks yesterday.    No word yet.  How close does Woo Audio tend to hold to the deadlines they state?  I need to know whether to stock up on Xanax and beer in order to stand a long wait.
> 
> *2)  Is the wait worth it for a WA6SE?  lol*


----------



## Silent One

It's very exciting to hear that you found your combo... _especially being a Jazz musician._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to my WA6-SE and LCD-2 combo right now. i still don't know which is better for rock music.
   
  RS1 with WA6-SE/WA2 combo.
   
  WA6-SE + LCD-2
   
  or T1 + WA2.....
   
   
  i like all of them lol


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> listening to my WA6-SE and LCD-2 combo right now. i still don't know which is better for rock music.
> 
> RS1 with WA6-SE/WA2 combo.
> 
> ...


 

 how about wa22 with all your cans?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i really want it, but im starting to realize i don't have the financial stability nor the time to sell both my amps and buy one yet.
   
  mostly i don't want to go through the hassle of selling both amps and shipping, and most of all, i hate waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  ill probably just end up waiting till i have the cash and buy the WA22 and keep the WA2/WA6-SE for the meantime. so ill have all 3 at some point ll


----------



## jc9394

I heard you on the shipping and timing, it is a big hassle to me too since I'm mostly busy once in the office and chained me to my desk.  I have been waiting for the WA22 for a long time too, probably over a year since I decided to get one.


----------



## emremusic

I'm really happy that I found my combo too!! And I don't have to spend so much money. Maybe I'll buy new cables, furniture, metal legs, wooden blocks for dampening - you know, the easy stuff. 
   
  I'm sure there plenty of amps and cans out there, and they'll sound great. But this combo really worked for me!! I fell in love with the sound and felt the sound in my heart, you know what I mean?? 
   
  Reading the HD600 forums now, and talked to the mastering engineer at length. He is from England, and works at Abbey Road studios. He told me that he went through other headphones, but trusts HD600 for mastering. 
   
  I heard the some recording first through another amp in the studio, the Auditor... Which was very nice. But preferred I preferred my 6SE. 
   
  I'm telling you everybody: for your *small group jazz recordings: drums, upright bass, piano, guitar, horns..Any recordings by Enja, CrissCross, ECM, Blue Note, Atlantic, Steeplechase labels...  If you want to hear what we musicians want you - the audience - to hear, get this: WA6SE and HD600*. I can't endorse this enough. 
   
  I know all those record labels have a different signature to their sound. But this combo worked for them. Like the CrissCross label goes for immediate accuracy with a very tiny room reverb.. and ECM goes for a cathedral sound. I'm sure for ECM recordings other amps/headphones could work well too. But especially for the labels that are about the immediate realist sound like CrissCross, or Steeplechase, this is The combo. 
   
  I guess a very good solid state amp like the Auditor would do well too, but the 6SE had more dynamic range and more.. soul to it's sound. 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's very exciting to hear that you found your combo... _especially being a Jazz musician._


----------



## Icenine2

Woo's CD+DAC reviewed by Steve Guttenberg
   
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57411888-47/wowed-by-woos-new-cd-player/?tag=txt;title
   
  BTW-Howdy everyone!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ very nice!


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Woo's CD+DAC reviewed by Steve Guttenberg
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57411888-47/wowed-by-woos-new-cd-player/?tag=txt;title
> 
> BTW-Howdy everyone!


 

 I don't hold a lot of weight to what he says.  I feel audio reviewers just talk to fill space sometimes.  That being said, I like my WDS-1.  He gets points for speaking well of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm hoping more people can review the WDS-1 after April 15th.  I don't have enough experience to know weather it's a good DAC, or just better than what I had.  I suspect it's a good DAC.


----------



## Draygonn

greggf said:


> I have a WA6SE being built.  Two questions:
> 
> 1)  They said it would take 3 weeks.  It was 3 weeks yesterday.    No word yet.  How close does Woo Audio tend to hold to the deadlines they state?  I need to know whether to stock up on Xanax and beer in order to stand a long wait.
> 
> 2)  Is the wait worth it for a WA6SE?  lol




Recently an owner reported it took 6 weeks for his to arrive. Heck, I've been waiting 7 months for a pair of Thunderpants.





emremusic said:


> I would wait 6 months if I had to.



Me too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> I don't hold a lot of weight to what he says.  I feel audio reviewers just talk to fill space sometimes.  That being said,* I like my WDS-1*.  He gets points for speaking well of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  you have a WDS-1 already?  how it compare to your former.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> you have a WDS-1 already?  how it compare to your former.


 

 Better.  I like it better than the Bifrost and better than the VDA-2.  Not just the features, but I think the sound is clearer.  Feature wise, it has everything you could want in a DAC.  Build quality is every bit as good as Woos other stuff (owned two amps).  I wish I could look inside, but I don't know how to open it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pyramid6 said:


> Better.  I like it better than the Bifrost and better than the VDA-2.  Not just the features, but I think the sound is clearer.  Feature wise, it has everything you could want in a DAC.  Build quality is every bit as good as Woos other stuff (owned two amps).  I wish I could look inside, but I don't know how to open it.


 


  I'm very tempted to get one to compare it to the PWD...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> It will be 3 weeks waiting for me on Monday, so wondering the same thing as you...


 


  5-6 weeks is pretty common (I was quoted 3 took about 6 for the SE), I know its hard not knowing, specially when they give you an estimate thats off - but not much can be done.. you'll be happy when it arrives though!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> On the GEC, I did have a conversion on this thread with Rob (Skylab) and both of us agreed that 6080 are not really worth it compare to regular 6AS7G with the only exception of GEC.  The GEC 6AS7G raise another level but the gain is lower compare to 7236 and 5998, it is a prefect match to both Denon D700 and HD800 but not so great with LCD.  Every since I got my hands on the GEC 6080, I either gave or sell all other 6080 tubes.


 

 Just placed a "wanted" ad, would love to find a lightly-used matched pair of these.


----------



## jc9394

grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good luck, I was lucky to pick up "panamared" gec 6as7g few days ago. I have not tried them yet, just picked them up from th PO but was busy at the office, will give them some love tomorrow as I will be working from home.

They will be my backup since I was regretting selling my backup pair few weeks ago.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Good luck, I was lucky to pick up "panamared" gec 6as7g few days ago. I have not tried them yet, just picked them up from th PO but was busy at the office, will give them some love tomorrow as I will be working from home.
> They will be my backup since I was regretting selling my backup pair few weeks ago.


 

 But if you get tied-up, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll pay for the round-tripper (USPS). Put 50 hours on 'em and make 'em do what they do!


----------



## Sid-Fi

That would be me. I was quoted 3 weeks and didn't hear anything well after that. I don't think Jack will proactively email you at all about delays, but will reply. I emailed him after 4 weeks and was surprised to hear back that it would be another 2 weeks. It felt like a really long time, but these are high-end long-term purchases in my opinion so the wait really becomes pretty insignificant in the long run. Then again, its easy to say that when I'm listening to it as I type.

  
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Recently an owner reported it took 6 weeks for his to arrive. Heck, I've been waiting 7 months for a pair of Thunderpants.
> Me too.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Man, nothing like sitting in my recliner in the dark with the glow of my WA22 after a 16 hour day...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Let's just see if anybody did actually see my question. Has anybody listened to both Woo amps and Little Dot amps?


----------



## Silent One

Hope you get feedback soon. However, this is one side of the party. Perhaps, if you also pose the question to the Little Dot MK VIII SE thread as well...


----------



## El_Doug

I owned a MK VI and the WES - not really a useful comparison, though I was pretty happy with both
  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Let's just see if anybody did actually see my question. Has anybody listened to both Woo amps and Little Dot amps?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But if you get tied-up,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I'm open to this, PM me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm open to this, PM me.


 







 A wise Woo-mate.


----------



## roadster-s

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I just received shipping confirmation for my WA6SE! 3 weeks minus one day since I placed my order. Will post some picks when I receive it, including the loop out option and integration in my audio rack.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I just received shipping confirmation for my WA6SE! 3 weeks minus one day since I placed my order. Will post some picks when I receive it, including the loop out option and integration in my audio rack.


 


  Congrats! It's only 0815 hours on the West coast - so, I'll raise a glass of Mimosa in your direction while I enjoy my waffles!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Congratulations! Lucky you to have such a shorter wait than I had had. Looking forwarding to initial pics and impressions.

  
  Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I just received shipping confirmation for my WA6SE! 3 weeks minus one day since I placed my order. Will post some picks when I receive it, including the loop out option and integration in my audio rack.


----------



## greggf

Congrats!  Let us know what you think of it when it arrives.............


----------



## oldwine

OH.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I missed this gem!!! i also want to get this!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Good luck, I was lucky to pick up "panamared" gec 6as7g few days ago. I have not tried them yet, just picked them up from th PO but was busy at the office, will give them some love tomorrow as I will be working from home.
> They will be my backup since I was regretting selling my backup pair few weeks ago.


----------



## Earrat

I should be getting my WA6SE in about week. It's going to replace my e9, I am very excited.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





earrat said:


> I should be getting my WA6SE in about week. It's going to replace my e9, I am very excited.


 


  You certainly arrived at the right destination...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 welcome!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





earrat said:


> I should be getting my WA6SE in about week. It's going to replace my e9, I am very excited.


 


  Post pics once the amp arrives. I'm very interested in seeing what it looks like. What headphones will you be using, if I must ask?


----------



## Earrat

I'll be using Grado GS1K's as my primary headphone. I actually just upgraded DAC as well, went from the e7 to the Cary Xciter DAC. 
   
  I will definitely take some pictures when it arrives, especially some glowy night photos.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Wow. I just rolled in the tubes I had picked up for my WA22 - the Mullard GZ37 rectifier, Sylvania 7236 power, and Sylvania chrome dome 6sn7. Immediate improvement. I probably still only have about 40 hours on my WA22 so far, but even then with the upgraded tubes this thing is really starting to impress.
   
  It has a lot more power now and I get good satisfying volumes very low on the dial even with low gain while having quieter background, very black and satisfying. Sound staging and placement drastically improved. Everything sounds much more resolving and precise. It has a very effortless and musical sound now. The word refined keeps coming to mind. I was just listening to my HDTracks binaural 24/96 Ottmar Lieber album. Wow. Amazing 360 degree sound staging with pinpoint placement.
   
  This thing rocks.


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1 Welcome and congrats!
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You certainly arrived at the right destination...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Wow. I just rolled in the tubes I had picked up for my WA22 - the Mullard GZ37 rectifier, Sylvania 7236 power, and Sylvania chrome dome 6sn7. Immediate improvement. I probably still only have about 40 hours on my WA22 so far, but even then with the upgraded tubes this thing is really starting to impress.
> 
> It has a lot more power now and I get good satisfying volumes very low on the dial even with low gain while having quieter background, very black and satisfying. Sound staging and placement drastically improved. Everything sounds much more resolving and precise. It has a very effortless and musical sound now. The word refined keeps coming to mind. I was just listening to my HDTracks binaural 24/96 Ottmar Lieber album. Wow. Amazing 360 degree sound staging with pinpoint placement.
> 
> This thing rocks.


 

 If you ever get a chance to purchase the Tung Sol 6SN7 BGRP's go for it. That will bring your system up another notch.  I enjoyed the GZ37 as much as the EML 5U4G (I thought it was at least 90% of the performance of EML with my system). For the WA22, I felt the Sylvania 7236 was the best price/performance ratio given how expensive the other driver tubes are. Other than the TS BGRP, I also enjoyed the USF-596 rectifier, but it seems they're getting hard to find now. Nice to see you're enjoying the WA22. I was the same as you when I got mine - couldn't keep the smile off my face!


----------



## kchew

It's been a very long while, but I've finally completed my shootout of seven rectifiers!



From left to right: Mullard GZ34 metal base, Mullard GZ37, Mullard GZ37 fat bottle, EML 5U4G, United Electronics 596, Brimar 5R4GY and Mullard GZ34 black base. Together with the Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plate round mica and GEC 6AS7, each rectifier spent three days in my WA22 before evaluation with an HD800 with Whiplash TWag cable. Source is a modded Cambridge Audio 840c CDP. I'll split this review into three - one for the Mullard GZ series indirected-heated tubes, one for the 5x series direct-heated rectifiers, and the last for some afterthoughts.

*Mullard GZ34 black base*



This particular tube has factory/date code X8H, indicating manufacture at the Philips plant at Sittard, UK, in August 1958. It is not the fat base version despite being one of the earlier batches made. After being used to large rectifiers, this tiny tube came as somewhat of a shock when I received it. I had bought it NOS, and after 200+ hours a dark deposit had gathered on the glass below the bottom mica. So if you see GZ34s with such dark deposits, it doesn't mean it's at the end of its lifespan, but might still have a long life ahead.

The first thing that struck me when listening with it was a bright, cool-sounding sound signature, followed by a closed, narrow soundstage. The upper bass/lower midrange seems to be toned down, and treble extends high and bites hard. Bass punches decently enough, but does not extend very low. Of the seven rectifiers, this is the brightest sounding. Soundstage width is the narrowest as well, but not exactly unpleasant. Soundstage depth is not its strong suit as well, reigning in the HD800's expansive presentation. For those who feel that the HD800 is too wide and diffused in soundstaging, this tube can cure that.

However, this tiny tube has an upfront, aggressive presentation with great speed and attack. Trumpet fanfares sound exhilarating, and it seems to suit rock pretty well. Still, the black base GZ34 is not my cup of tea and I would personally rank it bottom on my list.


*Mullard GZ34 metal base*



I got this tube used and it showed; the base had lots of oxidation and the glass had lots of dark deposits inside below the bottom mica. No matter, some brasso on the base made it shine again, and my experience with the black base version meant I wasn't too worried about how much life it had left. Date and factory code indicated manufacture in December 1956 at the Philips plant in Holland.

So how different is it from the regular black base version, and is it worth the premium? Happily, it sounds like an upgrade. Treble is silker, making it less fatiguing with the HD800. Soundstage is slightly wider, but just slightly. There's a hint more bass volume as well. Overall, it is an improvement, but still not to my liking. I got mine for USD200, which is a good price if you like its signature. But these days they can go for over $500, which is pretty ridiculous when the regular version doesn't perform that much worse at a much more affordable price. If you want one, be patient and wait for a good deal instead of paying horrendous sums for the mystique and rarity.


*Mullard GZ37*



The GZ37 (or CV378) came in two versions, an earlier fat bottle version and a later skinnier version. This is the later skinnier version, manufactured in Blackburn, UK, in March 1967. I bought it NOS, and after about 600+ hours, a silver ring formed on the glass between the top two mica, and "getter" deposits appeared above the heater elements.

Putting the GZ37 in was a relief after the GZ34, as the warmer sound signature was very welcome. In fact, it seems to be a polar opposite of the GZ34; it's warmer sounding, the treble is reigned in, and the soundstage is quite wide. Also, it is more laid back and not aggressive at all. If the GZ34 were a rocker at a mini concert, the GZ37 would be a jazz crooner at a casual bar.

However, the GZ37 is noticeably more sluggish than the GZ34. Attack is not as fast, and the bass is more bloated. Soundstage depth is also similar to the GZ34. For those craving tight bass or snappiness in rock and techno, this rectifier is not for you. But those looking for something laid back can give this a try, and it is often cheaper than the GZ34.


*Mullard GZ37 fat bottle*



Is this really the same type of rectifier as the later GZ37? The glass shape is different, the plates are different, even the place of manufacture seems to be different (High Wycombe vs Blackburn). And despite being used and putting in 200+ hours, the glass remained clean and spotless with no deposits. Is the older tube really better?

Indeed. Gone is the sluggish response of the newer tube, the fat bottle sounds more agile and dynamic. Not as fast as the GZ34, but it doesn't lose out too much. Bass punches harder, tighter and deeper, it just might be my favourite tube when it comes to the lower regions. Soundstage width is the widest of the GZ series here, with slightly improved.

One thing that strikes me about this tube is how smooth everything sounds. Perhaps it's the treble roll-off as compared to the other three and the sweeter midrange, but the big bottle sounds very relaxed and refined in its presentation despite being more dynamic that the skinny GZ37. Pair this tube with soothing jazz or slow ballads and you can just kick back and relax. Of the four GZ series tubes, this is my firm favourite.

To be continued...


----------



## kchew

Continuing with the 5x rectifiers...
   
*Brimar 5R4GY*
   


 Thanks to Xcalibur255's tip, I decided to try this rectifier as well after hearing all the good things about it. I was not disappointed. The first thing that hit me was how expansive, how deep the soundstage was. The GZ37 was no slouch here, but the 5R4GY takes it up another level. Full-sized orchestras sound very impressive, and some sound effects in trance spin all around your head. With respect to soundstaging width and depth, this tube shares top spot with another tube.

 Bass performance is very similar to the GZ37 big bottle, with punch and depth. Combine the soundstage and bass performance with a very affordable price and it would seem like a winner. However, it has the most treble roll-off and the upper midrange is not as engaging as the rest. Together with a very laid back presentation, this Brimar didn't move me as much as the others in rock, pop and female vocals. Otherwise, it's a great performer for the price.


*EML 5U4G mesh plate*
   


 Much has been written about this tube, so much so that I ordered it together with my WA22 through Jack. Aesthetically, this tube is gorgeous.Fine mesh grid housed in a big bottle with lettering and pins plated in gold, it sure looks like its worth its price tag. Even more so when thelights are off and the filaments give that lovely glow.

 This big tube has a very nice dynamic, fast sound signature that almost matches the GZ34, and while it too has a somewhat toned down lower midrange, it does not sound as cold as the Mullards. Treble performance is similar to the metal base GZ34, and bass goes very deep with pretty good punch. Soundstaging-wise, it takes second place being just a little narrower in width, but retaining the depth and 3D imaging of the Brimar. Overall, it's more a "technical" sounding tube rather than a "tubey" sounding one, but it does have a nice upfront presentation that can get you toe-tapping. With some NOS rectifiers becoming increasingly rarer, it's good to know that there is still a current-production tube that can still hang around with some of the best.


*United Electronics 596*
   


 It caused a flurry when it first appeared in this thread, was sold out at many places soon after and requires and adaptor that makes it look like a science experiment. Indeed the 596 has caused such a storm here that some have already labelled it "Mighty". With all that fuss, who couldn't resist contacting Glenn for an adaptor and picking it up as well?

 Well, resistance is futile and this high-altitude tube for the USAF does seem to live up to the hype. Soundstaging shares top spot with the Brimar 5R4GY, bass performance and smoothness is similar to the Mullard GZ37 big bottle, and dynamically it's on par with the EML 5U4G mesh plate, with a hair less treble. While the EML is upfront and engaging with a slightly technical flavour, the 596 is more laid back and spacious while sounding a little lusher and smoother. This rectifier is a winner with jazz, blues and instrumentals. And for less that $50 a tube, it really is a no brainer.

 The only issue with this tube is, where to get it? From what I've heard, Glenn has exhausted his stock, vacuumtubes.net (where I got mine) is sold out, it hardly shows up on ebay, and your local tube dealer will probably have never heard of it. For those of you who already have this tube, congratulations and consider yourselves very lucky.


----------



## kchew

*Afterthoughts*

 One small warning for the GZ series rectifiers: when paired with 6080 and 6AS7 power tubes, the amp gets really hot! In fact, my WA22 power knob feels warm after an hour, and the top plate can get scorching hot. Even when using 7236 and 5998 power tubes, the amp is noticeably warmer. I try to limit my amp to 5 hours max with these rectifiers, and while I have exceeded that limit a few times with no ill effects, I don't really recommend it. Especially if you live in a hot environment like me.

 I guess that's one reason why I like the EML 5U4G so much. No matter the tube combination, the amp just stays slightly warm, even with CV181 and 6AS7 tubes. I confess to having a soft spot for the EML, it being my first rectifier and all, and I've tried to stay objective when reviewing it here. It is an impressive and elegant looking tube, but after 800+ hours, carbon deposits form inside the glass as seen here:
  



 If you've taken college physics, the deposits in the second picture would look like a diffraction grating due to the mesh plate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've seen many GZ34 tubes on ebay with plenty of white and silvery deposits inside the glass. This is not an indication of a well-worn tube, my black base version developed such deposits after just 200 hours. And oxidised metal bases can always be polished for a new tube look. Usually such "ugly" tubes are cheaper than unused ones, so you might pick up a bargain on a tube that's still strong.

 Now for some rankings, from best to worst (= being equal):

 Bass extension:
 EML 5U4G > 596 = GZ37 fat = 5R4GY > GZ37 > GZ34 metal > GZ34 black

 Bass punch:
 GZ37 fat = 5R4GY = 596 > GZ37 > EML 5U4G > GZ34 metal > GZ34 black

 Midrange:
 GZ37 fat > GZ37 = GZ34 metal = GZ34 black = EML 5U4G = 596 > 5R4GY

 Treble extension:
 GZ34 black > GZ34 metal = EML 5U4G > 596 > GZ37 fat > GZ37 > 5R4GY

 Speed/Dynamics
 GZ34 black = GZ34 metal > EML 5U4G = 596 > GZ37 fat > GZ37 > 5R4GY

 Soundstage width:
 5R4GY = 596 > EML 5U4g > GZ37 fat > GZ37 > GZ34 metal > GZ34 black

 Soundstage depth:
 5R4GY = 596 > EML 5U4g > GZ37 fat > GZ37 > GZ34 metal = GZ34 black

 From upfront to laid back:
 GZ34 black = GZ34 metal > EML 5U4G > 596 > GZ37 > GZ37 fat > 5R4GY

 From warm to cold:
 5R4GY > GZ37 fat > GZ37 > 596 > EML 5U4G > GZ34 metal > GZ34 black

 Personal ranking, from favourite to least favourite:
 596 > EML 5U4G > GZ37 fat = 5R4GY > GZ37 > GZ34 metal > GZ34 black

 I'll end off with a reminder that this shootout was performed on my own equipment, on a particular tube combination and my own ears with my own musical preferences, so it should not be treated as an absolute guide, but rather an additional view on these tubes. In fact, I'm pretty sure some would disagree with my impressions, which is fine with me. I hope you've enjoyed reading!


----------



## Silent One

Outstanding kchew! This no doubt required a lot of effort on your part and should be commended by all of us on these pages... highly! One small note, did you not intend to write "From Left to Right" when listing the rectifiers for description? I just woke up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, so maybe I don't quite got it right yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will pour over your well thought out review after brunch.


----------



## xinque

So just got back from NYAAV, it was my first meet/show and thought I'd share.  Got to meet Jack who was very friendly and knowledgeable.  Tried the WA-234 which although imo sounded best in room, was questionable in the priceerformance difference between that and the WA-5.  Saw the new DAC and CDP, can't really comment on performance though aesthetically they go nice with the mono blocks.  Also got to try out a bunch of headphones and other Woo amps.
   
  Mixed feelings about these meets and shows.  It's nice trying out new equipment first hand, but at the same time there's no way to really compare it to your own audio chain.  I can listen and have a general sense if something sounds better, worse, or plain different.  But what exactly accounts for it?  Is it the amp?  the phones?  the tubes?  the burn-in time?  the actual recording?  etc..  Just not sure what you can really get out of them unless you bring your own tubes, phones, and music with you..
   
  Also, trying to decide on the next upgrade.  Not replacing my WA-5 anytime soon, so trying to decide between an LCD-3 or tube roll.  Any thoughts / opinions?  Think there's a bit much bloom on my system atm.  Looking at below choices:
   
  1.  T1 -> LCD3
  2.  EML 300B Mesh -> 300B Black Glass;  Brimar CV1988 -> RCA VTA231 Grey Glass


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> So just got back from NYAAV, it was my first meet/show and thought I'd share.  Got to meet Jack who was very friendly and knowledgeable.  Tried the WA-234 which although imo sounded best in room, was questionable in the priceerformance difference between that and the WA-5.  Saw the new DAC and CDP, can't really comment on performance though aesthetically they go nice with the mono blocks.  Also got to try out a bunch of headphones and other Woo amps.
> 
> Mixed feelings about these meets and shows.  It's nice trying out new equipment first hand, but at the same time there's no way to really compare it to your own audio chain.  I can listen and have a general sense if something sounds better, worse, or plain different.  But what exactly accounts for it?  Is it the amp?  the phones?  the tubes?  the burn-in time?  the actual recording?  etc..  Just not sure what you can really get out of them unless you bring your own tubes, phones, and music with you..
> 
> ...


 


  Great to get an early report from one of our own here in WAAOU. Just off the top of my head, musicman59 should be able to recommend direction on the LCD-3/tube rolling option you present.
   
  I know what you mean about trade shows - so many variables. Some moons back, I worked a few trade shows, most notably Winter/Summer CES for a few years. In my view, three of the biggest variables are: environment, emotional state and gear status.
   
  The first one is obvious or should be. The second may not be so obvious to some. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But will be to most head-fiers. The "Vacation effect" is at play here. There are many subtle and not so subtle things bombarding your senses. Depending on if one is having a good time, in a good mood while in that environment could impact what they feel about the gear, versus at-home evaluations. Lastly, some gear sounds rough. And it should! While some vendors understand the concepts of burn-in and play-in, sometimes a vendor has no choice but to replace a component just prior to or the day of a show. It could be due to component failure, but often times cosmetic blemishes are the reason. 
   
_But, if you could just borrow and get that piece of gear into your system... _


----------



## Xcalibur255

A superb write up kchew.  Very enjoyable to read and well presented.  I've always said the 5R4GY is the poor man's 274B and your findings seem to agree with me.  Your write up has got me thinking about trying to hunt down a High Wycombe fat bottle tube again, but these days $300 is the minimum point of entry for one and at that price the EML tubes start to make a lot of sense.  I wish you had an EML 274B on hand for this comparison, since to this day I wonder if it would be worth investing in an EML 5U4G when I already have a 274B.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> A superb write up kchew.  Very enjoyable to read and well presented.  I've always said the 5R4GY is the poor man's 274B and your findings seem to agree with me.  Your write up has got me thinking about trying to hunt down a High Wycombe fat bottle tube again, but these days $300 is the minimum point of entry for one and at that price the EML tubes start to make a lot of sense.  I wish you had an EML 274B on hand for this comparison, since to this day I wonder if it would be worth investing in an EML 5U4G when I already have a 274B.


 

 I absolutely agree with you on the write up! Looking back, I know sillysally had both versions of the EML 274B, Mesh plate & Solid Plate. Do you remember if he tried the EML 5U4G in his _6 Special Edition_ as well?


----------



## Silent One

My own recent thoughts on the USAF-596 rectifier from 48 hours ago-
   
   
   
 Round 2, United Electronics Company 1957 USAF-596.
  
 Re-installing the '596' Saturday for two hours was fun. But, compared to the 3DG4, the presentation appeared a bit darker in tone. I'm tempted to use the word veiled, but that wouldn't tell the whole story. Because while the '596' was darker in tone, all the details were there without struggle. Thinly veiled? Perhaps... but not my take. I'll stay with darker or just a bit so for now.
  
 Sunday night, pretty much the same with the '596' as it got more play-in. I needed to shake its time in transit off and added a few more hours. Swapped the GE 3DG4 rec back in and things were back to normal - what I've become use to with the rectifier being complimented by the 5998's.
  
 Then I decided to shake things up! I rolled OS'es and music software versions and stuck the USAF-596 back in. First, a quick highlight on what this means. My go-to setup had been the previous version of Amarra (Full) on Snow Leopard with solid state drive. With both rectifiers, this configuration returned a smaller more intimate sound stage (still wide, though). And the 3DG4 rec definitely sounded better with more clarity, balance and a bit more Bass control. 
  
 So, the changes I made at this point was to switch to the current & updated version of Amarra (Full) on Lion with solid state drive. And stuck the _Mighty 596_ back in and... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mercy! This rectifier is walkin' around with the _heavy set!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Even King Kong would look down and then stand down! The presentation packed a wallop! BIG Bass, BIG sound - the presentation was HUGE... Bigger-Wider-Taller-Deeper. Even more telling, I was immersed in the sound (more 3D like; detail; spaciousness), more depth than the 3DG4 with this version of playback.
  
 I had favored the previous config because I don't particularly like the extra processing Apple allowed Lion; Snow Leopard does few background processing and thus lower overhead. But the newer version of Amarra was written for Lion not Snow Leopard. And when I placed the 3DG4 back in with the latest of everything, it was far more pedestrian. It was as if the '596' took advantage of what the config had to offer. Was it perfect? No. The amp is still under going changes. But I'm hearing great potential now having experimented.
  
 Equally exciting is the latest OS for Mac is coming in a few months - Mountain Lion. Developers are reporting it will surpass Lion for audio. Snow Leopard also was better than Lion for audio but simply there were trade-offs. Apple giveth then taketh away something else.
  
 All in all, I'm glad experimenting inside the listening room never gets old even when revisiting tweaks and configurations. Early on, I tried the '596' vs 3DG4 but with the older config. Had I stayed the course with simply the previous version, the '596' might have stayed inside the drawer. This is a serious rectifier! Will continue to evaluate it...


----------



## dleblanc343

Great shootout kchew, helps me decide a bit on what options I could go for!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Golfnutz. You were right on with how you described the tubes. I'm really enjoying them. Thanks again for the sweet deal on them 
  
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> If you ever get a chance to purchase the Tung Sol 6SN7 BGRP's go for it. That will bring your system up another notch.  I enjoyed the GZ37 as much as the EML 5U4G (I thought it was at least 90% of the performance of EML with my system). For the WA22, I felt the Sylvania 7236 was the best price/performance ratio given how expensive the other driver tubes are. Other than the TS BGRP, I also enjoyed the USF-596 rectifier, but it seems they're getting hard to find now. Nice to see you're enjoying the WA22. I was the same as you when I got mine - couldn't keep the smile off my face!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Looks like I've found what my setup may be due to some impressions I've heard. WA6SE + Emission Labs Rectifier is apparently the best for the HD650 and LCD-2. Something like this...


----------



## Silent One

Looks a lot like h.ravi's former setup...


----------



## Ahzari

Nice write up kchew, I enjoyed reading your impressions! Any thoughts on the Sophia Princess among your rankings? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I finally got my hands on a 596 now just waiting for the adaptor. very excited


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1 on both the compliment to kchew--nice writeup--and the question about the Sophia Princess. I am really liking the GZ37, but would be interested in a little more speed and dynamics since the HD 650 are so slow, which I have read the princess offers.
  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Nice write up kchew, I enjoyed reading your impressions! Any thoughts on the Sophia Princess among your rankings?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kchew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It is an impressive and elegant looking tube, but after 800+ hours, carbon deposits form inside the glass as seen here:


 

 Great writeup, kchew!  Very informative.  But just one question.  The carbon deposits, is that normal for the EML 5U4G?  Or any tube for that matter?


----------



## fhuang

a wa5 wa5 le question(again).  there's a speaker out for wa5.  also a 4 pin balanced out for k1000.  but there's no low impedance headphone jack.  unlike the wa5 le.  should i be considering that too, wa5 le being more flexible for headphone users?  unless i have a k1000(or he6)?


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> a wa5 wa5 le question(again).  there's a speaker out for wa5.  also a 4 pin balanced out for k1000.  but there's no low impedance headphone jack.  unlike the wa5 le.  should i be considering that too, wa5 le being more flexible for headphone users?  unless i have a k1000(or he6)?


 


   
   
  Notice the HPL and HPH on the WA5 amp's output switch?  Headphone low impedance,  headphone high impedance.  Now answer my question from the post above yours, since I have answered yours. Bahaha.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





peshmerga said:


> Notice the HPL and HPH on the WA5 amp's output switch?  Headphone low impedance,  headphone high impedance.  Now answer my question from the post above yours, since I have answered yours. Bahaha.


 


  thanks.  so i guess wa5 is the way to go.  even i don't need the speaker out, now


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Nice write up kchew, I enjoyed reading your impressions! Any thoughts on the Sophia Princess among your rankings?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  So, you managed to secure the very rare and nearly extinct USAF-596? Congrats! Have you sourced an adapter? What is the year and mfg of your '596?' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm guessing your source is confidential.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought we like brothers in audio, yes? PM coming...


----------



## kchew

Thanks for the kind words everyone!
   
  @Silent One: Yeah, that mistake is what happens when it's past midnight and you're trying to proof read. Your enthusiasm for the 596 is definitely justifiable; makes me glad I saved the best for last!
   
  @Xcalibur255: Thanks for introducing me to the Brimar 5R4GY, it may sound like I'm knocking on it in my review but it has a great price/performance ratio. And you're right, the fat bottle GZ37 prices can get scary, but if you're patient you might find an affordable cosmetically challenged one that collectors don't want. Mine had no markings and the model number was scratched onto the base, so the price was low.
   
  I didn't go for the EML 274B and Sophia Princess because earlier reports indicated that the EML 5U4G was better with the HD800. I wouldn't know if that's true now as I don't have any 274B tubes, but maybe, just maybe, I might end up with one down the road...
   
  @Ahzari: No, I don't have the Princess. But I vaguely remember someone in this thread comparing the EML 5U4G and Sophia Princess. And if my memory hasn't failed me, he might've said that the Princess is more detailed and dynamic but the EML has a better soundstage.
   
  And oh, you got a 596 already? Congrats, you're going to enjoy it once the adaptor comes in!
   
  @Sid-Fi: The Sophia Princess should be faster and more dynamic. But you can consider the GZ34 if soundstaging is not too important for you.
   
  @Peshmerga: I've never seen other EML 5U4G tubes, but I'm guessing that these tubes will have deposits sooner or later. I got mine in December 2010 and it has clocked over 800 hours and counting without failing. Other tubes will show age differently; the GZ34s will have dark deposits below the bottom mica and the GZ37 with have a silver getter flashing between the top two micas as well as getter patches over the heater elements.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





kchew said:


> @Ahzari: No, I don't have the Princess. But I vaguely remember someone in this thread comparing the EML 5U4G and Sophia Princess. And if my memory hasn't failed me, he might've said that the Princess is more detailed and dynamic but the EML has a better soundstage.
> 
> And oh, you got a 596 already? Congrats, you're going to enjoy it once the adaptor comes in!


 

 I think it may have been me who compared the EML and the SP .. but its always nice to hear different opinions. Yes, been fortunate enough to get my hands on a 596, I was inspired to start searching for one after I demo'ed Silent One's 596, it was an excellent tube. Personally I would rank it at just a nip above the SP in overall musicality/sound quality; but I prefer either to the EML.


----------



## cacatalysis

Nice comparison! kchew.  I agree with you for the rectifiers I have in hands.  However, as clearly stated by you the comparison is with GEC 6AS7G and TS BGRP 6SN7 as the power and dirver tubes.  WA22 is a great amp, because the sound responds to all three types of tubes.  In my experience, the sound changes drastically in response to the overall combination.  For example, I do not feel the GZ34 has a small soundstage when I paired it with 6F8G and TS 7236.  For 596, I also like 6F8G and TS 7236.  EML pairs better with GEC 6AS7G and TS 6SN7 BG PL.  For HD800 and HD650, I like quite different combos.
   
  For HD800 three combos are outstanding and the choice depends on recording and music: GEC 6AS7/TS 6SN7 BGRP/EML 5U4G, TS7236/RCA 6F8G/596, TS7236/TS 6F8G/596.  For HD650, TS7236/TS 6F8G/GZ34 or GZ33.  With these tubes, HD650 is very fast, brings great and clear shape to music.  I would sell my HE6 before HD650.   I only have black base GZ34 and use a PS audio link III as the source.
   
  By the way, I will sell my WA22, which is both a headphone and pre-amp (customized by Jack with a pre-out).  Almost all the tubes that will give you the combos I mentioned here will also be available to the buyer of WA22.  PM me if you are interested,
   
  I am using a Leben now, which handles my dyanmic phones and HE6 (from speaker out passing a hifiman adapter).  WA22 could not drive HE6 properly.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I bought the WA5-LE. I love it but if was doing it again I would go with the WA5 because of the K1000 connector. Even if you are not going to use speakers with it provide more flexibility and power for the HE-6.


----------



## musicman59

I love the sound of this combination in my WA5-LE. EML 300B Mesh with TS BGRP 6F8G and the 596 rectifiers. I probably prefer any of the 6F8G over my 6SN7 (including the TS BGRP) with the 596. The only ones that I probably like better are my Mullard ECC32.

   
  I have the EML 5U4G, Mullard GZ37, Brimar 5R4GY, Fivre, tungsol and RCA 5U4G but I prefer the 596 over all.


----------



## xinque

Just punched my wallet in the gut and spent tax return on a pair of Mullard ECC32..  Also eyeing to roll into a Takatsuki 300B..  Hopefully that combination will work out, LCD3 upgrade will have to wait..


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for showing your '596' Ahzari. I wasn't aware UEC contracted Joint-Army-Navy (JAN) for the '596.' Your Date code 6302 should be "2nd week of 52 - January, 1963."


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I love the sound of this combination in my WA5-LE. EML 300B Mesh with TS BGRP 6F8G and the 596 rectifiers. I probably prefer any of the 6F8G over my 6SN7 (including the TS BGRP) with the 596. The only ones that I probably like better are my Mullard ECC32.
> 
> 
> I have the EML 5U4G, Mullard GZ37, Brimar 5R4GY, Fivre, tungsol and RCA 5U4G but I prefer the 596 over all.


 


  You must be extremely busy with The Black Beauty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if one White board is dedicated to planned Head-Fi meets. The other, Competitions for the WA5-LE.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The picture was taken at our last meet in Jude's office hence the white board. My wife is very understanding about my hobby but I don't think she will give ma a pass having a white board in the house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## stevekwc

Question please. How does Woo define that 6SN7/6F8G tubes are not compatible to the WA6-SE? Do 6GL7/6EM7 tubes (upgrade option1) still produce better sound, when you have options to use other third-party 6SN7/6F8G adapters?
   
  Thanks,
  Steve


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





stevekwc said:


> Question please. How does Woo define that 6SN7/6F8G tubes are not compatible to the WA6-SE? Do 6GL7/6EM7 tubes (upgrade option1) still produce better sound, when you have options to use other third-party 6SN7/6F8G adapters?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


 


  Over the past 18 months, I have seen this question asked and answered by other members with Jack Wu. It remains a good question because the replies received and shared in this thread were always vague. The latest reply was shared in March/February stating something like "6SN7 tubes are a bad idea for the WA6SE." But there was no explanation.
   
  In a related experience, the only question I asked was if he could sell me a NOS pair of 6SN7 tubes for my own _6 Special Edition. _And he did - my very first pair. Informing I'll need adapters, which I had previously mentioned having. 
   
  But here's my question when reading other's replies from Jack: where is the _follow-up?_ Receive a reply that's a bit foggy? Ask for clarification.




   
  Others will have to address your "Option 1" question, as I have been satisfied with the 6SN7 series...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





stevekwc said:


> Question please. How does Woo define that 6SN7/6F8G tubes are not compatible to the WA6-SE? Do 6GL7/6EM7 tubes (upgrade option1) still produce better sound, when you have options to use other third-party 6SN7/6F8G adapters?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


 


  The way I understood it, I e-mailed Woo Audio on 2 occasions about this and as Silent One pointed out it the responses are typically vague. The way i understand it is the WA6SE distributes too much current to the 6SN7s which can cause them to burn out/get damaged; while it won't harm the amp it could harm those expensive tubes. This is why Glenns adaptors would have resistors so only half the current was reaching the 6SN7s - possibly a reason why they run cooler than 6EW7s in the SE. No idea if I am technically correct about anything stated, just summing up a few responses that I had received from Jack and Glenn.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> The way I understood it, I e-mailed Woo Audio on 2 occasions about this and as Silent One pointed out it the responses are typically vague. The way i understand it is the WA6SE distributes too much current to the 6SN7s which can cause them to burn out/get damaged; while it won't harm the amp it could harm those expensive tubes. This is why Glenns adaptors would have resistors so only half the current was reaching the 6SN7s - possibly a reason why they run cooler than 6EW7s in the SE. No idea if I am technically correct about anything stated, just summing up a few responses that I had received from Jack and Glenn.


 

 All I know is I had adapters done right - assembled by MOT 2359glenn - and the operating temp of my _6 Special Edition_ was as cool as the other side of the pillow in overnight sessions. What should happen (and I may have to take the initiative) is one of two things: Jack place an asterisk next to the WA6-SE entry on the Tube Compatibility Chart with a concise explanation or requirement below; Take the opportunity to address the WAAOU thread with same concise explanation or requirement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Because some of us are going to go there anyway..._ might as well be successful._


----------



## stevekwc

Thank you Ahzari and Silence One. Below is an earlier reply by takezo. The question is still there. If 6SN7/6F8G adapters with proper resistors can work well, why those tubes are incompatible in Woo's opinion?
   
  Quote: 





takezo said:


> the 6se is very different from the wa6 and the driver dc cathode bias work at differing
> parameters. the high-gain 6se puts out more current than the 6sn7 family of tubes can
> handle, causing distortion in sound output and early death for the tube. these dc bias
> cathode have a resistor placed between it and the ground, replacing the need for extra
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





stevekwc said:


> Thank you Ahzari and Silence One. Below is an earlier reply by takezo. The question is still there. If 6SN7/6F8G adapters with proper resistors can work well, why those tubes are incompatible in Woo's opinion?


 

 Yes, we read takezo's reply with interest. But, if one were to s-l-o-w-l-y turn around inside their listening room, they'll discover the shadow being cast is not from a big piece of furniture (Got peanuts?). There isn't anything third-parties are doing with adapters for the _6 Special Edition_ that they cannot elegantly make themselves. Addressing the aforementioned reply's concern specifically. 
   
  Perhaps, the reason is one of business not technical for staying away. But we'll learn soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 'cause you were just fixin' to submit an inquiry to Jack on the matter, yes? My Woo is _down-the-street!_ If no one is interested in following up on the matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'll submit after a midnight pint of Haagen-Dazs.


----------



## rgs9200m

I also got to meet Jack at the NY show, one great guy, quite a few visitors and great sound all around.
  Best of show was the SR-009 on the WES with some fine NOS tubes for the amp section. Made me think I'd never need speakers again. Great texture, great staging, very refined, no complaints on the sound (or comfort; those 009s are soooo comfortable, like a perfect pair of shoes).
  Even the SR-007 was pretty awesome on the WES, far nicer than when I had the original Omega1/ with the Stax 007t amp circa 1999. Much more depth, bloom and deep compelling detailed bass.
  The Hifiman HE5 had a nice balanced presentation also out of the dynamic amps. None of the piercing painful stridency that made me sell my HE6s a while back.
   
  Jack was great and answered my questions even though others wanted attention.
  I compliment him on the time, trouble, and expense he went through to set all this up. I haven't seen a headphone setup an any of the NY shows since 2004 at least (and maybe it was 2002).
  I don't own any Woo equipment for the record.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Here's a few more pictures of my setup with my new WA22 in it. Sadly, my point and shoot is barely better than my cell phone camera so sorry for the picture quality.
   
  Woo Audio WA22 on top with Mullard GZ37 rectifier in the middle, Sylvania "chrome dome" 6sn7 drivers to either side, and Sylvania 7236 power tubes on the ends. Below that is my Audio-gd NFB-10WM balanced DAC
   

   
  A side look at the WA22 on top and Audio-gd NFB10-WM below it. Here you can see my Audiophilleo2 connected in back with the Aqvox low-noise power supply adapter right between it and my Ultraviolet usb cable. The interconnects are DIY Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 XLR interconnects.
   

   
   
  A closer look behind everything.
   

   
   
  A closer look at the VTI rack I was telling everyone about a few pages back. Absolute steal in my opinion. To the right is my HD 650 with balanced Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 DIY cable.
   

   
  A little zoomed out for a look at my listening station. It's off to the side of my bedroom as you can tell, but works for me. The chair is a simple, cheap recliner from IKEA that works awesome. I think it's called a Pongo if I remember correctly.


----------



## Draygonn

Thanks for the new pics Sid-Fi. I can see the rack quite well now and I will be getting one along with the Poang chair for my secondary rig (main rig is in the office). The cherry wood shelves look great with the WA22.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Draygonn. Yeah, I couldn't believe how nice the fit and finish was on the rack. Everything else I had looked at was a lot more money and didn't look nearly as nice.
   
   


draygonn said:


> Thanks for the new pics Sid-Fi. I can see the rack quite well now and I will be getting one along with the Poang chair for my secondary rig (main rig is in the office). The cherry wood shelves look great with the WA22.


----------



## Ahzari

Sid-fi what power cord are you using on the Woo? looks beefy..


----------



## Ahzari

cool new tube CD player by raysonic


----------



## Peshmerga

Sid-fi, where did buy your Mullard GZ37 from?  And how much may I ask?  Great setup, you got there.


----------



## Silent One

*Sid-Fi, *P&S aside, you did the room and ensemble justice. This post was very helpful, thank you. I got to peer around the sides, back and top of the rack to see what I'm getting in to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your Ultraviolet USB might be holding you back a bit, in my view. If you stay with WW, then I'd suggest you move up to the Starlight at minimum. The A2 is a nice little unit.
   
  I need to spec the VTI's dimensions; weight capacity. Is the rack expandable to add one more shelf? Thanks again!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I bought the WA5-LE. I love it but if was doing it again I would go with the WA5 because of the K1000 connector. Even if you are not going to use speakers with it provide more flexibility and power for the HE-6.


 

 yea that's what i'm guessing/thinking.  i've read even a 600 ohm headphone sound better with the k1000 connector too.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Good question. I forgot to mention those. I am using Pangea AC-14SE power cables on both the WA22 and NFB10. They are definitely on the really affordable end, but have really gotten a lot of rave reviews especially for the price. I haven't gotten around to comparing them to anything pricier yet. On the first level of the rack out of sight in the pictures I have a Furman AC-215 power conditioner feeding the DAC and the Aqvox USB power supply.
   
  Here's a link below.
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14SE&variation=2

  
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Sid-fi what power cord are you using on the Woo? looks beefy..


----------



## Sid-Fi

I actually bought it from a fellow member on this thread Golfnutz. I bought a combination of tubes from him so I don't really have a price for the GZ37 in particular. I don't think he had any left, but can't say for sure. Thanks for the compliment. Glad you liked the pics.
  
  Quote: 





peshmerga said:


> Sid-fi, where did buy your Mullard GZ37 from?  And how much may I ask?  Great setup, you got there.


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> I need to spec the VTI's dimensions; weight capacity. Is the rack expandable to add one more shelf? Thanks again!




I've been doing a little research. Overall dimensions: 23 1/4" (W) x 20 3/8" (D) x 32 1/4" (H). Maximum weight load capacity: 350 Lbs. You can get extra shelves for around $100 each. There is also a four legged version for around $320 and $120 each extra shelf. 
http://www.vtimanufacturing.com/BL%20304SC.htm

For anyone interested in the chair it's an IKEA Poang. Several Head-fiers have it and recommend it for an inexpensive listening chair.
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/search/?query=poang%29


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hi Silent One. Glad you liked the pics, P&S and all.
   
  The rack is completely modular and I believe you can add more racks as well as take some off if you don't need the four shelves it comes with. I found the same website that I ordered it from, and it is still there for the same price. You'll find all of the dimensions and other specs there. Here's a link.
  http://www.racksandstands.com/VTI-BL-Series-4-Shelf-Audio-Rack-BL304-VI1005.html
   
  Interesting point about the Ultraviolet. I guess at the time I assumed that since it was digital and already well reviewed, that most of their cables upmarket would be diminishing returns. I definitely hear clear differences with analog cables, but haven't really compared USB cables yet. Do you have any other recommendations or do you think the Starlight is the best value?
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Sid-Fi, *P&S aside, you did the room and ensemble justice. This post was very helpful, thank you. I got to peer around the sides, back and top of the rack to see what I'm getting in to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Good question. I forgot to mention those. I am using Pangea AC-14SE power cables on both the WA22 and NFB10. They are definitely on the really affordable end, but have really gotten a lot of rave reviews especially for the price. I haven't gotten around to comparing them to anything pricier yet. On the first level of the rack out of sight in the pictures I have a Furman AC-215 power conditioner feeding the DAC and the Aqvox USB power supply.
> 
> Here's a link below.
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14SE&variation=2


 


  I almost got the Furman 215 but decided to go with the Furman pst-8 power conditioner for more outlets (they are pretty great units). thanks for sharing the info, I checked Pangea, looks promising.


----------



## Sid-Fi

So...as good as my WA22 is sounding with my current tubes, I'm going to order some Tung Sol 6F8G driver tubes along with adapters from Glen and a Mullard GZ34.
   
  The current tubes of Mullard GZ37, Sylvania 6SN7, and Sylvania 7236 have really good sound stage and imaging, a nice warm and musical sound, and are overall very refined and enjoyable. However, they don't quite counter balance the slow and sleepy nature of my HD 650 as much as I am hoping for. I really like my HD 650 and have been amazed how well they scale with high-end gear behind them, especially with silver cabling. However, they are clearly at their best IMO with relaxing and smooth music. My current tubes really build on their strengths and sound great, but I want to find a tube combination that will really speed them up and make them more dynamic. In other words, I want a neutral, fast, and transparent headphone and think finding a combination that speeds up my HD 650 might be my best bet until I can replace them with HD 800. The silver dragon cabling already has accomplished a lot of this with tightening up and reigning in the bass and bringing out the treble and giving it a little sparkle.
   
  I can see how tubes are a slippery slope all unto themselves :O


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Hi Silent One. Glad you liked the pics, P&S and all.
> 
> The rack is completely modular and I believe you can add more racks as well as take some off if you don't need the four shelves it comes with. I found the same website that I ordered it from, and it is still there for the same price. You'll find all of the dimensions and other specs there. Here's a link.
> http://www.racksandstands.com/VTI-BL-Series-4-Shelf-Audio-Rack-BL304-VI1005.html
> ...


 

 The Wireworld Ultraviolet USB Digital is a decent cable. It's the one I selected to start out my WooAudio journey with - Mac music server > DAC > Woo. A few Chess moves later saw the MHDT USBridge introduced to my system... and saw me cutting corners. My thinking was, since the bridge is re-clocking; improving the signal to the DAC, I'll just get a high quality Digital Coax and stay with the Ultraviolet. Shouldn't make a difference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  A few White Papers and conversations that followed brought more light. I tried the Wireworld Silver Starlight USB Digital cable and it was so very good to me. But I couldn't afford it, so after my 30 day trial, I shipped it back. Admittedly, there were a few purchases in between - Furutech GT2 USB; Wirewolrd Supernova 6 Glass Optical. All improvements on the Ultraviolet. But I didn't want to spend the money on them since the bridge was going to clean up the signal anyway.
   
  Once I broke down and chased down the storied Mid '40's TS-BGRP VT-231's, I had to have the best! Being poor, I accepted "Better" instead of best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I purchased the Silver Starlight like I should have done a few months earlier, and it took me places... places I wanted to go! Just for fun, a couple of months later I re-inserted the Ultraviolet for a quick 30 minute evaluation. Didn't last that long. The presentation had more grain than a Nebraska silo! It's ok for my secondary DAC in a backup role, but... re-clocking or no, the USB cable still matters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I've been doing a little research. Overall dimensions: 23 1/4" (W) x 20 3/8" (D) x 32 1/4" (H). Maximum weight load capacity: 350 Lbs. You can get extra shelves for around $100 each. There is also a four legged version for around $320 and $120 each extra shelf.
> http://www.vtimanufacturing.com/BL%20304SC.htm
> For anyone interested in the chair it's an IKEA Poang. Several Head-fiers have it and recommend it for an inexpensive listening chair.
> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/search/?query=poang%29


 


  Much appreciated. Although, I have dueling thoughts. I'm in the market for a "Stand up" desk. But Audio needs have a way of creeping inside my head as soon as I begin to allocate dollars elsewhere in the listening room. It's not suppose to be a competition, but smart money says the audio rack comes in first!


----------



## roadster-s

BTW, also available from Amazon with free shipping.

  
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I am using Pangea AC-14SE power cables on both the WA22 and NFB10.
> Here's a link below.
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14SE&variation=2


----------



## Sid-Fi

Sounds like I really need to swap PMs with you on this one. I looked in the Silver Starlight a little bit and the main benefit that Wireworld touts is that it reduces jitter. However, the AP2 has insanely low jitter measurements after the usb cable and its retiming etc. I guess I'm thinking exactly how you were thinking before you picked up the Silver Starlight and loved it. It's just hard to imagine a big difference from everything I've read so far. That being said, I trust actual listening more than I do theory.
   
  I've definitely heard enough to know--for me at least--that its not just 1s and 0s only in some simplistic manner as so many tout, and that power and cables make a big difference.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Wireworld Ultraviolet USB Digital is a decent cable. It's the one I selected to start out my WooAudio journey with - Mac music server > DAC > Woo. A few Chess moves later saw the MHDT USBridge introduced to my system... and saw me cutting corners. My thinking was, since the bridge is re-clocking; improving the signal to the DAC, I'll just get a high quality Digital Coax and stay with the Ultraviolet. Shouldn't make a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cacatalysis

How does the 009/WES compare to your top dynamic/ortho rigs?  I understand this is under meeting conditions.
  Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I also got to meet Jack at the NY show, one great guy, quite a few visitors and great sound all around.
> Best of show was the SR-009 on the WES with some fine NOS tubes for the amp section. Made me think I'd never need speakers again. Great texture, great staging, very refined, no complaints on the sound (or comfort; those 009s are soooo comfortable, like a perfect pair of shoes).
> Even the SR-007 was pretty awesome on the WES, far nicer than when I had the original Omega1/ with the Stax 007t amp circa 1999. Much more depth, bloom and deep compelling detailed bass.
> The Hifiman HE5 had a nice balanced presentation also out of the dynamic amps. None of the piercing painful stridency that made me sell my HE6s a while back.
> ...


----------



## rgs9200m

It's kind of an unfair comparison, as my source and power conditioning  and cabling are pretty nice (EMM xds1, shunyata triton, stealth/shunyata cables),
  but I'm still hooked on my Pinnacle/HD800 combo overall, with remarkable detail, a lack of etch/grain but not smoothed over or rounded off.
   
  The short listen to the SR009 was very musical, but a little less direct and a bit more blended together with a bit more peakiness in the vocals than my
  HD800 system, which sound very balanced to me from top to bottom. (But this balanced sound and lack of treble/upper mid peakiness is something I strived for with cabling like my wonderful balanced Moon Black Dragon cable.) 
   
  The bass with the WES/009 system was deeper and fuller and controlled and had good detail, but the bass from my HD800 system, while not as deep, 
  is somehow extremely transparent and, to me, perfect, just there and full of nuance and little bits of information in the bass that I don't hear anywhere else.
  The Pinnacle is pretty fantastic in this regard.
   
  The LCD3 is not as resolved as either the 009 or the HD800, but has a great musical flow that makes me not care or listen critically but just enjoy things,
  and again there are no peaks or valleys that stand out (using an Enigma Apex cable).
   
  I think my ranking would be: 1. HD800, 2. SR009, 3. LCD3.  I did hear what people mention as a bit of glare in the 009's upper mids just on a vocal,
  but it was just a little, and I hear that some cap upgrades in the WES can help with this, and of course, the quality of the recording or the digital source makes
  a big difference here. But aside from this, the 009 did "wow" me, with a perfect balance of smoothness and detail and speed, with amazing deep controlled bass and sweet, sweet upper highs and lots of liquidity. Liquidity is the main attribute I would use to describe the 009 sound.
  And percussion was to die for, with natural slam that seemed like real drums, better than my other systems.
   
  It's funny how things have evolved since my old Omega1/007t Stax system back in 1999, where things sounded very upfront and natural, but kind of flat and weak, but still enjoyable for it's directness, especially with vocals. The Stax 009 is much more open and deep and not weak at all, with no flatness anymore. I still have to listen to see if that old Stax super-palpable (almost unnaturally tangible) texture I used to hear with the old Omegas (and the Lambdas I had before that) is still there.
   
  Well this had just been a brain dump for what it's worth. Keep in mind I only listened for a few minutes to the 009 system with music I was not familiar with, so take this all with grain of salt.


----------



## galacticsoap

Hi Everyone,
   
  A quick question if I could, I'm not sure if you guys would be able to point me in the right direction.
   
  I'm pretty close to securing purchase of an American WA2 however intend on having it shipped to Australia.
   
  The local Aussie Dealer shares the same voltage specs as per the Woo Audio site for the WA2's, namely: 
   

 
 Voltage: Dual AC operation 110/220V, 50/60 Hz
 External dimension: 5½"(H), 13"(W), 9"(D)
 Weight: 17 lbs
 
   
  As such is it safe to assume that:
   
  1) All Woo Audio WA2's have Dual AC operation i.e. 110/220V, 50/60 Hz?
  2) That I'll be able to run the WA2 in Australia with the Voltage noted above?
   
  Or would I need a step down converter to use the WA2 down here?
   
  Thanks,
  Soapy


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Sounds like I really need to swap PMs with you on this one. I looked in the Silver Starlight a little bit and the main benefit that Wireworld touts is that it reduces jitter. However, the AP2 has insanely low jitter measurements after the usb cable and its retiming etc. I guess I'm thinking exactly how you were thinking before you picked up the Silver Starlight and loved it. *It's just hard to imagine a big difference from everything I've read so far*. That being said, I trust actual listening more than I do theory.
> 
> I've definitely heard enough to know--for me at least--that its not just 1s and 0s only in some simplistic manner as so many tout, and that power and cables make a big difference.


 

 It would be great to exchange PM's... and mull over the thoughts and experiences we'll find in them. I think it would be helpful to readers if I clarified my post some. I don't want to leave the wrong impression that I'm encouraging you or anyone else to spend and spend big. My quote was:
   
_"Your Ultraviolet USB might be holding you back a bit, in my view. If you stay stay with WW, then I'd suggest you move up to the Starlight at minimum."_
   
  A couple of things here. First, although I have not heard your system, I think it's just fine and I only offer the difference might be a bit not big. What's more, if your system is dialed-in, you shouldn't be hearing any big changes with tweaks, only subtle. Unless you've just discovered a flaw. No need to dial-up a big purchase for big changes (I'm mainly pointing this out to the readership, Sid-Fi, as they won't be able to follow our forthcoming PM's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
   
  Secondly, the Starlight and Silver Starlight are two different cables. I was suggesting the Starlight which is the next one up in the line up from the Ultraviolet. This is because I heard improvements with the WW Supernova 6 & Furutech GT2, both which is on par with the Starlight I suggested.  The Silver Starlight USB I bought, on the other hand, is a Reference cable employing a Silver Clad OFC 6 conductor DNA Helix design as opposed to a Silver Plated OFC Copper 4 conductor design. And was merely a luxury purchase since the tea tins were overflowing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The A2 certainly is a fine device - ordered one myself last May but returned it. The W4S DAC executes Jitter control really well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





galacticsoap said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> A quick question if I could, I'm not sure if you guys would be able to point me in the right direction.
> 
> ...


 







 Good to go! Should you need to hear it spoken, call A2A (Addicted To Audio). Good luck with your purchase and hope you become a WooAudio member.


----------



## galacticsoap

Hey Mate - thanks for the confirmation 
   
  Probably the wrong thread to post this on, lol - but I'm torn between the WA2 and the RSA Raptor. The Raptor equates to a slight saving, which isn't too much of a consideration. I'm just wondering whether the WA2 is a substantial improvement on the Raptor 2 driving me LCD-2's.
   
  Unfortunately I'm in Sydney, and A2A is in Melbourne 
   
  EDIT: I should also mention that the W2 I'm considering is the $400 upgrade version


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





galacticsoap said:


> Hey Mate - thanks for the confirmation
> 
> Probably the wrong thread to post this on, lol - but I'm torn between the WA2 and the RSA Raptor. The Raptor equates to a slight saving, which isn't too much of a consideration. I'm just wondering whether the WA2 is a substantial improvement on the Raptor 2 driving me LCD-2's.
> 
> ...


 






 Whoops... BIG country you got down there. This certainly isn't the wrong thread for evaluations and opinions concerning Woo amps. Some here may have had both, heard both or know someone who does. Never mind me, I'm likely to show a Woo-bias, especially with the upgraded version. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hey, be sure to check out the Aussie & New Zealand corner on Head-Fi as well.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/580720/aussie-nz-head-fiers-corner/450#post_8309803


----------



## obzilla

So I lost my Woo card this week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I decided that 'stats aren't for me currently. I may jump back, but for now I've liquidated my electrostatic inventory and the lovely GES has gone packing.
  Even my girlfriend was sad to see it go.
   
  However, I'll not be gone long. _"Something Woo this way cometh.."_
   
  A certain WA5 should be in my midst in about 3 weeks. A long and hard wait to be sure.


----------



## roadster-s

OK, so if anyone here doesn't enjoy looking at audio gear photos, it's probably time to skip to the next post.
   
  My freshly unpacked WA6SE, pictured here with the HD800 and Cardas cord.
   

   
  Rear end, showing the loop out option I had installed. Note that it's always on, so signal will forward to my processor no matter if the Woo is on or off.
   

   
   
  Ze Woo and itz cables: Better Cables Silver Serpents and Pangea power cord.
   

   
   
  Installed in the rack.
   

   
   
  Zoom out a bit to show the "first line of attack", partnered with my Sony XA5400ES as transport and the new EE DAC Plus with an upgraded Psvane tube installed.
   

   
   
  Zoom out a little more to show the big guns from the front wall. Swans F2.2+ mains, C2.3+ center, 2 x Emotiva XPA monoblocks, 1 Emotiva XPA 5CH, Marantz AV7005 processor, Oppo BDP93 (still lots more not pictured here).
   

   
  Everything is pretty fresh out of the box, even the DAC and headphones have less than 100 hours of play. So now I have to "sacrifice" some of my free time to give them the hours needed to really shine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> So I lost my Woo card this week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Still, this is great! Are you buying Pre-Owned from 'Complex' (Black WA5) or new from Woo? What kind of music genres were dominating the _Stat Experience?_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> OK, so if anyone here doesn't enjoy looking at audio gear photos, it's probably time to skip to the next post.
> 
> My freshly unpacked WA6SE, pictured here with the HD800 and Cardas cord.
> 
> ...


 







 C'est fantastique!


----------



## cacatalysis

rgs9200m, Many thanks for sharing your impression.  HD800 is indeed a fantastic phone.  Did you get a chance to compare 007 with 009 on WES?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Jaw drop on the last picture...wow!
  
  Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> OK, so if anyone here doesn't enjoy looking at audio gear photos, it's probably time to skip to the next post.
> 
> My freshly unpacked WA6SE, pictured here with the HD800 and Cardas cord.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Zoom out a little more to show the big guns from the front wall. Swans F2.2+ mains, C2.3+ center, 2 x Emotiva XPA monoblocks, 1 Emotiva XPA 5CH, Marantz AV7005 processor, Oppo BDP93 (still lots more not pictured here).
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is pretty fresh out of the box, even the DAC and headphones have less than 100 hours of play. So now I have to "sacrifice" some of my free time to give them the hours needed to really shine.


 

 wow.. awesome! congrats


----------



## Draygonn




----------



## Austin Morrow

My PS1000 came in the mail. Sounding pretty fine off the WA6.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> It's kind of an unfair comparison, as my source and power conditioning  and cabling are pretty nice (EMM xds1, shunyata triton, stealth/shunyata cables),
> but I'm still hooked on my Pinnacle/HD800 combo overall, with remarkable detail, a lack of etch/grain but not smoothed over or rounded off.
> 
> The short listen to the SR009 was very musical, but a little less direct and a bit more blended together with a bit more peakiness in the vocals than my
> ...


 


 Very surprised by your ranking. I love my HD800, but the SR-009 sounds so much better to me (definitely 'wow' for me). Is this based on price/performance, or you just like the sound of the HD800?


----------



## roadster-s

Thanks for the comments fellow headfiers.
   
  Well, looks like I already have an issue with the loop output. Of course, my other preamp is connected downstream from the source, DAC and Woo and when both the Woo and my Marantz are turned on, sound out of the headphones is fine. But if I turn off my downstream processor (since I don't need it for headphones), major distortion apprears in the headphones...!?
   
  Wrote Jack to find out why this happens. After all, when I just need my headgear, I don't need the rest to be powered on, that was the purpose of the loop to begin with.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Very surprised by your ranking. I love my HD800, but the SR-009 sounds so much better to me (definitely 'wow' for me). Is this based on price/performance, or you just like the sound of the HD800?


 

 Remember, they are driven by and Apex Pinnacle. Innerspace's Pinnacle review, where he mainly tests with the HD800s, basically describes what I am hearing, where he prefers this combo to another amp with R10s.
  And my CDP is really nice (at least to me), I think better than the source at the show (or even in Innerspace's review). So that needs to be taken into account. It's not an all things being equal situation.


----------



## john57

If it was me I would used a piggy-back RCA adpaters from Radio Shack for a loop. My Stax headphone ampifier uses two sets of RCA jacks parallel connected to each other. Sounds like that your downstream processor when turn off is loading down the input connection to your Woo amp.


----------



## Maxvla

Getting kind of irritated with Woo Audio. I've sent them two emails now asking for the output impedance of my WA6, but both times I've been ignored. Here is the one I sent this weekend and it's reply. At least he sent a reply this time, too bad it was answering only part of my questions.



> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:35 AM
> To:
> ...


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Getting kind of irritated with Woo Audio. I've sent them two emails now asking for the output impedance of my WA6, but both times I've been ignored. Here is the one I sent this weekend and it's reply. At least he sent a reply this time, too bad it was answering only part of my questions.


 


  I own a WA6 as well,  I have a bunch of rectifiers and driver/power tubes as backups or in case I need to diagnose a problem. Owned since the beginning of March.  For what it is worth, Ken Rockwell, on his site, in the audio review section, has measured the output impedance of the WA6SE.
   
  Low output: ~15 ohms
  High output: ~47 ohms
   
  There is some slight variation due to the source's impedance.


----------



## Maxvla

Is that accurate for the non-SE?

And why is it so difficult to get an answer from Woo when it should be something they put on the spec sheet anyways? Really frustrates me that he's ignored my question twice.


----------



## cacatalysis

I was about to sending you a PM for your impression of your 009?  Which amp are you using now to drive the 009?  Sounds the 009 destroyed the HD800.
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Very surprised by your ranking. I love my HD800, but the SR-009 sounds so much better to me (definitely 'wow' for me). Is this based on price/performance, or you just like the sound of the HD800?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Is that accurate for the non-SE?
> And why is it so difficult to get an answer from Woo when it should be something they put on the spec sheet anyways? Really frustrates me that he's ignored my question twice.


 

 Greetings, Maxvla. I just got in and don't have the time to search right now. But last autumn, Jack answered one of the current members here about the very same thing. Or he didn't and followed up and was given an answer - one of these is true, can't seem to remember. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But a search will turn up the answer from late 2011. For some reason, member Rawrbington comes to mind. If you're reading this evening, Rawrbington, jump in! I'm also willing to bet member Xcalibur255 knows as well. After dinner I'll help you check.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I just replaced my old Meridian 561 processor with the Marantz AV7005. I am pretty impressed with its performance and at that price is very hard to beat.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Still, this is great! Are you buying Pre-Owned from 'Complex' (Black WA5) or new from Woo? What kind of music genres were dominating the _Stat Experience?_


 

 Same kind of music that dominates my orthos and dynamics. Everything from Beethoven to Dimmu Borgir, Radiohead to Rodrigo and Gabriela, Shakira to The Beatles, on and on. I listen to almost everything without prejudice, so long as it gets my toe tapping or the wheels of the mind spinning, I'll buy a disc. The Stax did nothing wrong, the GES just didn't have the guts, so what's next? WES/BHSE/LL.... 
   
  And yup, the black 5 from Complex indeed. He has been gracious enough to let me make a deposit today and finish it on Friday. Paypal processing blah blah, I'll have it in 3 weeks, maybe a little more. So that wonderful black Woo finish and tank-like build quality will return to the top shelf of one of my racks shortly.
   
  I mainly bailed on the 'stats because my goal was 2 high end rigs, and I had decided one to be electrostatic, but the added expenditure and highly limited availability of the 'stats amps and the inability to mix and match cans with my LF rig, just made decide to flip everything (and a good used price on a WA5 certainly spurred any lingering doubts). I may be missing out on the last few known obtainable inches of the _endless downward audio nirvana spiral_ that Stax may deliver, but I get 2 amazing rigs this way, and with the extra coin I save I'll be able to get an LCD3 shortly. So a stable of Liquid Fire / WA5 + LCD2 / HD800 / not far off LCD3, or biting the bullet and shelling out $5k for an amp that will do the 007s justice, while meaning that certain cans only play with certain amps?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Congrats on the WA5. It should be fantastic. I eagerly await impressions in a few a weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Same kind of music that dominates my orthos and dynamics. Everything from Beethoven to Dimmu Borgir, Radiohead to Rodrigo and Gabriela, Shakira to The Beatles, on and on. I listen to almost everything without prejudice, so long as it gets my toe tapping or the wheels of the mind spinning, I'll buy a disc. The Stax did nothing wrong, the GES just didn't have the guts, so what's next? WES/BHSE/LL....
> 
> And yup, the black 5 from Complex indeed. He has been gracious enough to let me make a deposit today and finish it on Friday. Paypal processing blah blah, I'll have it in 3 weeks, maybe a little more. So that wonderful black Woo finish and tank-like build quality will return to the top shelf of one of my racks shortly.
> 
> I mainly bailed on the 'stats because my goal was 2 high end rigs, and I had decided one to be electrostatic, but the added expenditure and highly limited availability of the 'stats amps and the inability to mix and match cans with my LF rig, just made decide to flip everything (and a good used price on a WA5 certainly spurred any lingering doubts). I may be missing out on the last few known obtainable inches of the _endless downward audio nirvana spiral_ that Stax may deliver, but I get 2 amazing rigs this way, and with the extra coin I save I'll be able to get an LCD3 shortly. So a stable of Liquid Fire / WA5 + LCD2 / HD800 / not far off LCD3, or biting the bullet and shelling out $5k for an amp that will do the 007s justice, while meaning that certain cans only play with certain amps?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I love the sound of this combination in my WA5-LE. EML 300B Mesh with TS BGRP 6F8G and the 596 rectifiers. I probably prefer any of the 6F8G over my 6SN7 (including the TS BGRP) with the 596. The only ones that I probably like better are my Mullard ECC32.
> 
> 
> I have the EML 5U4G, Mullard GZ37, Brimar 5R4GY, Fivre, tungsol and RCA 5U4G but I prefer the 596 over all.


 


  And photos like this will have me restless for the next few weeks. Beautiful stuff man. I will be hounding you and the other WA5/LE owners for tube recommendations before long.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Does anyone have any tips on where I should go to start reading up on the tube dampers. I haven't read anything about them at all, but it seems to makes sense that they would be worthwhile. I'd be interested in which ones I should look at for my WA22 tubes.


----------



## weitn

Holy ****! Oh my god! What! Looks like the ultimate dream entertainment system.
  
  Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Zoom out a little more to show the big guns from the front wall. Swans F2.2+ mains, C2.3+ center, 2 x Emotiva XPA monoblocks, 1 Emotiva XPA 5CH, Marantz AV7005 processor, Oppo BDP93 (still lots more not pictured here).
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is pretty fresh out of the box, even the DAC and headphones have less than 100 hours of play. So now I have to "sacrifice" some of my free time to give them the hours needed to really shine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Holy ****! Oh my god! What! Looks like the ultimate dream entertainment system.


 


  Ultimate? I'll give you ultimate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He could neatly park his roadster in the middle of the room, giving him the ultimate Drive-in.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Same kind of music that dominates my orthos and dynamics. Everything from Beethoven to Dimmu Borgir, Radiohead to Rodrigo and Gabriela, Shakira to The Beatles, on and on. I listen to almost everything without prejudice, so long as it gets my toe tapping or the wheels of the mind spinning, I'll buy a disc. The Stax did nothing wrong, the GES just didn't have the guts, so what's next? WES/BHSE/LL....
> 
> And yup, the black 5 from Complex indeed. He has been gracious enough to let me make a deposit today and finish it on Friday. Paypal processing blah blah, I'll have it in 3 weeks, maybe a little more. So that wonderful black Woo finish and tank-like build quality will return to the top shelf of one of my racks shortly.
> 
> I mainly bailed on the 'stats because my goal was 2 high end rigs, and I had decided one to be electrostatic, but the added expenditure and highly limited availability of the 'stats amps and the inability to mix and match cans with my LF rig, just made decide to flip everything (and a good used price on a WA5 certainly spurred any lingering doubts). I may be missing out on the last few known obtainable inches of the _endless downward audio nirvana spiral_ that Stax may deliver, but I get 2 amazing rigs this way, and with the extra coin I save I'll be able to get an LCD3 shortly. So a stable of Liquid Fire / WA5 + LCD2 / HD800 / not far off LCD3, or biting the bullet and shelling out $5k for an amp that will do the 007s justice, while meaning that certain cans only play with certain amps?


 

 After reading and learning of your reasoning, I'm with you! And can only conclude you are a sound man (pun intended).


----------



## Silent One

WA6 output impedance-
   
  It's slowly to starting to come back to me now. I'm almost certain fellow member danska was at the center of it all. Because I recall he asked here in these pages after picking up a pre-owned '6.' Where is danska, anyway?


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Does anyone have any tips on where I should go to start reading up on the tube dampers. I haven't read anything about them at all, but it seems to makes sense that they would be worthwhile. I'd be interested in which ones I should look at for my WA22 tubes.


 


  Think I recalled Herbie's Audio Lab being mentioned, in regards to tube dampers.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





peshmerga said:


> Think I recalled Herbie's Audio Lab being mentioned, in regards to tube dampers.


 


  yea the have a line of excellent dampers with a nice 90 trial/return policy. good place to start.


----------



## ardilla

Couldn't find any posts about this yet:
   
Controversial photo-reviewist *Ken Rocwell's (*almost) brand new review of the *WA6SE* has got a lot of measurements in it, I posted some here:
   
*http://www.head-fi.org/t/606019/ken-rockwells-review-of-the-woo-wa6se*


----------



## Maxvla

Are those the same values for the non-SE, though?


----------



## ardilla

Obiously not, since they are different. 
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Are those the same values for the non-SE, though?


----------



## roadster-s

That sounds like a plan!
   
  What honey? who put that **@!!??** car there? Come on, grab some popcorn and let's make it a drive-in evening together, under the suspended tile ceiling...
   

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ultimate? I'll give you ultimate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> That sounds like a plan!
> 
> What honey? who put that **@!!??** car there? Come on, grab some popcorn and let's make it a drive-in evening together, under the suspended tile ceiling...


 


  Very very nice indeed. And if you must know, I am your fellow CCA Member - Los Angeles Chapter (late to renew... but I will in May 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


----------



## roadster-s

Just tried that, same result. Jack returned my email stating it was most likely due to gain being too high. So I basically waisted $70.00 on this loop option. Certainly looks like it's only useful for those wanting to connect the Woo directly to a power amp, using it as a pre to drive speakers.
  
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> If it was me I would used a piggy-back RCA adpaters from Radio Shack for a loop. My Stax headphone ampifier uses two sets of RCA jacks parallel connected to each other. Sounds like that your downstream processor when turn off is loading down the input connection to your Woo amp.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Just tried that, same result. Jack returned my email stating it was most likely due to gain being too high. So I basically waisted $70.00 on this loop option. Certainly looks like it's only useful for those wanting to connect the Woo directly to a power amp, using it as a pre to drive speakers.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 


  I was trying to say that using the  piggy-back RCA adapters is the same as using the loop option on your Woo and the same with my Stax amp dual parallel RCA jacks. I have my Melos pre-amp connected to my Stax amp and the other RCA jacks on the Stax is connected to my recording device. It does not mater if my recording device is on or off as my Melos still sees the same load. There still may be a way to make the loop option on your Woo amp to work the way you intended but I do not have a clear picture on how everhting is connected in your setup. Jack is [size=11pt]suggesting[/size] that without the downstream processor being on the gain going to your Woo inputs is too high?. I wonder about that. What is your other pre-amp?  By the way on my tube headphone amp I have pre-amp outputs not a loop meaning that I need my tube amp to be on and have the tubes to drive the outputs.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 No problem, anytime.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





peshmerga said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I have them but I like the Duende Criatura silicone rings better.


----------



## Ahzari

anyone have experience with the Grado RS2i or Q701s with Woos (more specifically 6/SE)?


----------



## roadster-s

Thanks for your offer to help. The way I have things hooked up right now:
   
  1) Transport
  2) DAC
  3 Woo
  4) Marantz AV7005 processor
  5) Multiple power amps
   
  Now the Woo in/out is basically a loop that is always active.
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> I was trying to say that using the  piggy-back RCA adapters is the same as using the loop option on your Woo and the same with my Stax amp dual parallel RCA jacks. I have my Melos pre-amp connected to my Stax amp and the other RCA jacks on the Stax is connected to my recording device. It does not mater if my recording device is on or off as my Melos still sees the same load. There still may be a way to make the loop option on your Woo amp to work the way you intended but I do not have a clear picture on how everhting is connected in your setup. Jack is [size=11pt]suggesting[/size] that without the downstream processor being on the gain going to your Woo inputs is too high?. I wonder about that. What is your other pre-amp?  By the way on my tube headphone amp I have pre-amp outputs not a loop meaning that I need my tube amp to be on and have the tubes to drive the outputs.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for the tip. I looked them up on tubedepot.com and see a lot of variety for different tubes, but don't see any 7236 power tubes or 6f8g options. Are these available elsewhere? Also, is the difference in using them readily noticable? Sorry for so many questions!
   
  Thanks for your tip as well Peshmerga.
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have them but I like the Duende Criatura silicone rings better.


----------



## john57

I wanted to report that after a few PM's  *roadster-s *taken care of his Woo amp loop out distortion issue. back to listening!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> anyone have experience with the Grado RS2i or Q701s with Woos (more specifically 6/SE)?


 


  My Q701's sound excellent with the WA6.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Does anyone know if 2359glenn has any of adapters available at this point. I checked ebay and couldn't find anything listed under him and sent him a PM a couple of days ago and haven't heard back. I'm looking for 6sn7 / 6f8g adapters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Does anyone know if 2359glenn has any of adapters available at this point. I checked ebay and couldn't find anything listed under him and sent him a PM a couple of days ago and haven't heard back. I'm looking for 6sn7 / 6f8g adapters.


 

 I don't believe he is making adapters at this time. Focused on custom built amps and other important matters. Now that you mentioned it, I'd like one myself.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Silent One. Any idea about backup options for the adapter I'm looking for.
  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I don't believe he is making adapters at this time. Focused on custom built amps and other important matters. Now that you mentioned it, I'd like one myself.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One. Any idea about backup options for the adapter I'm looking for.


 


  Well, I just took interest not five minutes ago, thanks to your inspiration. But I'll help look.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I wanted to report that after a few PM's  *roadster-s *taken care of his Woo amp loop out distortion issue. back to listening!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> My Q701's sound excellent with the WA6.


 


  thanks, think I'm going to give them a shot, how would you describe the soundstage and treble with your WA6?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Does anyone know if 2359glenn has any of adapters available at this point. I checked ebay and couldn't find anything listed under him and sent him a PM a couple of days ago and haven't heard back. I'm looking for 6sn7 / 6f8g adapters.


 


  It's a shame this didn't surface sooner or I would've given you one of mine instead of sending them all with my amp when I sold it.  I had more than one pair but just didn't see the point in keeping any of them.  Glenn made me a custom pair with teflon sockets that were just super.  I hope the guy who bought my amp uses 6SN7s in it because it'd be a shame for those adapters to just sit.


----------



## Silent One

United Electronics Company USAF-596; JAN-596.
   
  It seems in the last month, a few 596 transactions took place with very little notice or fanfare. Proactively, if anyone needs to let one go this spring, call me... or PM!
   
  Silent One
  (310) BUY-0596


----------



## San Raal

I'm currently looking to move a 596 on, working on trade for a Mullard reccy atm, but if that doesn't work out ill put it up for sale.
   
  Besides others here enjoy them a lot more than I do so it will be going to a better home!


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the heads-up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here, we treat our Glass with respect.


----------



## Silent One

I'm posting this pix here to shake this thread up some! When I get my next Woo, I'm going to make it a bookend on the right-side of the rack...


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm posting this pix here to shake this thread up some! When I get my next Woo, I'm going to make it a bookend on the right-side of the rack...


 


  Is that a Mac Mini? Ive heard great things about them as computer transports, they're not grounded and work v well as USB sources etc?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Ive heard great things about them as computer transports, they're not grounded and work v well as USB sources etc?


 

 I have nothing for praise for it as a source


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Is that a Mac Mini? Ive heard great things about them as computer transports, they're not grounded and work v well as USB sources etc?


 

 A suped-up 2010, baby! Next for the little one? Currently, eye-balling the KingRex SLAP Battery to take it off-the-grid. Or 12vdc Linear regulated power supply. But the stock switching power supply has to be yanked first.




   
  Small foot print and though not without isolation problems like many computers, it's still a wonderful and flexible computer to wok with. I've also setup a couple of Linux servers on a pc but it seems no matter what I come up with for a music server, "Power" & "Isolation" always rear its head.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I have nothing for praise for it as a source


 

 I wasn't sure if this was a supportive comment, but a quick look at your profile cleared up any doubt


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I wasn't sure if this was a supportive comment, but a quick look at your profile cleared up any doubt


 


  No doubt about it, Audrivana Plus on a Mac is a great way to feed a DAC.
   
  Soon enough I'll have a shot of a Woo to go with the Mac/DAC combo.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> No doubt about it, Audrivana Plus on a Mac is a great way to feed a DAC.
> 
> Soon enough I'll have a shot of a Woo to go with the Mac/DAC combo.


 

  
  Steve Nugent at Empirical suggested the MAC Mini was a great transport for his 24/192 asynch DAC the Overdrive. Even through my regular desktop PC and all of its switching nasties it still sounds great.
   
  Does the MAC Mini use or can be configured for SSD over a mechanical drive? Whats the fan situation like?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Steve Nugent at Empirical suggested the MAC Mini was a great transport for his 24/192 asynch DAC the Overdrive. Even through my regular desktop PC and all of its switching nasties it still sounds great.
> 
> Does the MAC Mini use or can be configured for SSD over a mechanical drive? Whats the fan situation like?


 


  I replaced the system drive myself with a 128GB SSD. It takes a screw driver, patience and small fingers. There are videos online with a comprehensive list of what you need. You can of course configure it with 1 or 2 SSDs. Apple just charges an arm and a leg for it.
   
  There is a small, silent, low low vibration fan in the mac mini chasis for the CPU. I don't know if one could rid himself of it, but it causes me no problems. The box is designed to be small, quiet, and fast enough for most things out of the high end computing range (streaming audio falls well within this).
   
  Soundwise, in my opinion bit perfect is bit perfect, so I notice no difference between the PC and Mac and various apps that stream bit perfect. Jriver on the PC was great though I did have some switching and streaming issues, I just didn't want to mess with it anymore. The Mac for what I am doing with audio, offers a much better end user experience in my opinion.
  I use Adrivana plus because I like the UI and options and now that it integrates with iTunes, I really need nothing more. Bit perfect (the program) is 90% cheaper (only 5 bucks), and sounds identical, but very few options, and you don't get the cool hifi component player to sit on top of iTunes like with Audrivana plus.
  Amarra is gaudy looking and tacky and crashy and expensive. When it's working, it too sounds the same, but I just don't like the software.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks for the tip. I looked them up on tubedepot.com and see a lot of variety for different tubes, but don't see any 7236 power tubes or 6f8g options. Are these available elsewhere? Also, is the difference in using them readily noticable? Sorry for so many questions!
> 
> Thanks for your tip as well Peshmerga.
> 
> ...


 


 If you are looking for a single tube I am going to be selling a single TS BGRP 6F8G and a single TS BGRP 6SN7GT with round mica.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> If you are looking for a single tube I am going to be selling a single TS BGRP 6F8G and a single TS BGRP 6SN7GT with round mica.


 


  Will you be parting with the adapter for the 6F8G? Been looking for this combo since December (w/TS-BGRP in 6F8G Glass). Perhaps, you'll recall our posts in the "6SN7" thread a few months back. I have the GT/VT-231 version but I need more (BIG country kool-aid grin).


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry but I still need my adapters for other 6F8G pairs that I have.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> I'm posting this pix here to shake this thread up some! When I get my next Woo, I'm going to make it a bookend on the right-side of the rack...




Nice shake up!

I love the look. I have a thing for huge butcher blocks - the chinese restaurants I frequent have blocks a metre square and two-three feet thick (I have dual citizenship so I'm allowed to mix measurement units  ). Would love to get one... and a house I could put it in. 

I think music and wood go so well together - perhaps its the craftsmanship and natural materials of instruments that appeals. The best looking headphones incorporate wood ( I'm talking at you, Sennheiser and Beyer!). My latest addition - this afternoon in fact - are a pair of lacquered burgundy ATs. Goofy headband, but the cups are stunning.


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I'm currently looking to move a 596 on, working on trade for a Mullard reccy atm, but if that doesn't work out ill put it up for sale.
> 
> Besides others here enjoy them a lot more than I do so it will be going to a better home!


 
   

 San... if you decide to sell your 596 I'd like first dibbs on it .. if it comes with the adatper...
   
  thanks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Nice shake up!
> I love the look. I have a thing for huge butcher blocks - the chinese restaurants I frequent have blocks a metre square and two-three feet thick (I have dual citizenship so I'm allowed to mix measurement units
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, I understand it's fairly easy to grow complacent with the WA2/T1 combo... so I had to throw something at you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know what you mean about wood. The presence of natural wood feels good. I want more of it and less metal inside the home.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dixter said:


> San... if you decide to sell your 596 I'd like first dibbs on it .. if it comes with the adatper...
> 
> thanks


 
   
  Hmmm, if you're quoting post #20448 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , I wonder how the previous post read (#20447)?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





dixter said:


> San... if you decide to sell your 596 I'd like first dibbs on it .. if it comes with the adatper...
> 
> thanks


 
   
  If I do sell it, it will be without an adaptor as im holding onto the 2 I have as once I get a pair of decent GZ34 I want to do a WA5 reccy shootout.
   
  Have they all dried up then?


----------



## Silent One

I'm not so sure. Although, I've the feeling the numbers are low and limited. I also feel there's some dealers and owners that are simply unaware there's a small and growing interest in them. And actually have them lying about; stored and forgotten. And that is why I posted my tel.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, I understand it's fairly easy to grow complacent with the WA2/T1 combo...


 
   
  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, I understand it's fairly easy to grow complacent with the WA2/T1 combo... so I had to throw something at you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 
   
  I knew that would bring about a smile.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I wanted to report that after a few PM's  *roadster-s *taken care of his Woo amp loop out distortion issue. back to listening!


 
   
  Did you guys attenuate the voltage somehow, or go with the RCA splitter, or... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Any idea about backup options for the adapter I'm looking for.


 
   
  Woo makes some fancy-schmancy adapters, they look to be quite nice. I don't know if they offer that one though, check the sponsored thread for details.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Silent One
> (310) BUY-0596


 
   





, I would love another one as well, already have the adapter.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm posting this pix here to shake this thread up some! When I get my next Woo, I'm going to make it a bookend on the right-side of the rack...


 
   
  That middle block is indeed gorgeous, I have a couple of blocks more like the one under the W4S.
   
  I also have an _older_ Mac Mini pumping A/V into my HTR (mostly A with Pure Music via V-Link), the first Intel model from early 2006 with the Core Solo still running strong!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kchew said:


> It's been a very long while, but I've finally completed my shootout of seven rectifiers!


 
  Awesome comparison, added to the database. You can never have too many rectifier write-ups in Woo Country
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!
   
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> *Afterthoughts*
> 
> One small warning for the GZ series rectifiers: when paired with 6080 and 6AS7 power tubes, the amp gets really hot! In fact, my WA22 power knob feels warm after an hour, and the top plate can get scorching hot. Even when using 7236 and 5998 power tubes, the amp is noticeably warmer. I try to limit my amp to 5 hours max with these rectifiers, and while I have exceeded that limit a few times with no ill effects, I don't really recommend it. Especially if you live in a hot environment like me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This last section is particularly useful for me. Nice warning for starters, and the ranking in combination with drivers and power tubes in particular must have been a challenge to sort out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Great job!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm posting this pix here to shake this thread up some! When I get my next Woo, I'm going to make it a bookend on the right-side of the rack...


 
   
  Silent One, thanks to that pic I am now tempted to get an isolation platform for my Woo. I'm using TAOC TITE-25MF footers under my WA22 which perform very nicely, but for some tube combinations I can hear the slightest taps and bumps with more sensitive headphones. I might get another TAOC sound board like what's under my CDP, or maybe a heavy wooden board like yours.
   
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Awesome comparison, added to the database. You can never have too many rectifier write-ups in Woo Country
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I actually have two 5U4GBs that I've not tried yet, one from RCA and one from Tung Sol. And I've forgotten about the Sovtek 5U4G that came with my amp. Cheap rectifier shootout anyone?
   
  The rankings was quite a challenge to finish, but thank goodness I took notes during the listening sessions, which helped me quite a lot. These days I cannot rely completely on my audio memory. I think it's time for me to start a tube spreadsheet with notes on individual tubes and combinations.


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Did you guys attenuate the voltage somehow, or go with the RCA splitter, or...


 
  We isolated my outboard Eastern Electric DAC Plus as the one generating the distortion in this setup. So now I use the player's internal DACs and relay directly to the Woo, then into the Marantz preamp, problem solved. I would of liked to use the EE DAC, but the XA5400ES DACs are still quite good...and I can now listen to the SACD layers from my hybrid discs on my headphones to boot!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   
  me = want..! I really like the balancing act going on here . Do you notice a difference with the changed feat vs the stock ones?


----------



## Draygonn

I finally had enough of the O2 and Buttkicker amp not jiving with the WA2's beauty. The O2 is light enough to stick to the leg of my desk. Apologies for not having Austin's photography skills.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That middle block is indeed gorgeous, I have a couple of blocks more like the one under the W4S.
> 
> I also have an _older_ Mac Mini pumping A/V into my HTR (mostly A with Pure Music via V-Link), the first Intel model from early 2006 with the Core Solo still running strong!


 
   
  Thanks, grokit. By the way, I didn't buy the latest Maple platform entirely for audio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But for aesthetics and to bring the room into balance. The past six months, I have been removing a one-time large amount of metal from the room due to excessive EMI/RFI exposure - not limited to the system but moi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good to hear your Mac is still putting in work!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> me = want..! I really like the balancing act going on here . Do you notice a difference with the changed feat vs the stock ones?


 
   
  Without a doubt! But first, let me qualify that with the differences can range from the _good, the bad and the ugly! _During the past couple of months, I have enjoyed experienced all three, many times (most) to less than desirable results. Tonight, we're shaking it up again with a different config - different footers/spikes with components on other surfaces in different places. Soooo many combos! 
   
  The night I took the pix shown above, the sonic presentation was a complete failure! But the configs tried last week were both good and promising. Adding new tweaks in 10 days, so things are not yet decided. Caveat - the wrong size footer, the wrong material, improper weight distribution, wrong surface and ect can all destroy and deaden the sound. Like other manually tuned items, you can get close, you could get lucky and then completely overshoot the mark! And that's ok 'cause tweaking/experimenting can lead to new insights - wasting time today to save money tomorrow!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I finally had enough of the O2 and Buttkicker amp not jiving with the WA2's beauty. The O2 is light enough to stick to the leg of my desk. Apologies for not having Austin's photography skills.


 
   
  Satisfying... turns out you gave your ensemble the right touch.


----------



## john57

I replaced a set of XLR to RCA cable set that was flaking out making poor intermit connection. I then use monoprice 16AWG Cable (Gold Plated) XLR cables. Fort extra measure I put on snap on ferrite cokes on both end of the cable to make sure that none of the RF in the room will introduce into the cable.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Okay, so the how do you order tube adapters from Woo Audio. They are nowhere to be found on their website anywhere. No links, no information, nothing. I'm looking for the 6SN7 to 68FG adapters - a pair.
   
  Edit: Well, I just sent $96 to Woo Audio's PayPal with a note that I wanted these adapters. Hope that is all it takes. Man, that seems pricy for adapters. Ugh.


----------



## Silent One

I'll be on the sidelines watching... waiting... _with interest._


----------



## Sid-Fi

I ordered a pair of Tung-Sol 6F8G BGRP and Mullard GZ34 from a member of the thread. Hopefully I won't be staring at them for a long time without having an adapter. Really curious to see how it compares with my current tubes. Sounds promising.
   
  Now if only I could get a peak at USAF 96...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I ordered a pair of Tung-Sol 6F8G BGRP and Mullard GZ34 from a member of the thread. *Hopefully I won't be staring at them* for a long time without having an adapter. Really curious to see how it compares with my current tubes. Sounds promising.
> 
> Now if only I could get a peak at USAF 96...


 
   





 This is when you place them inside the drawer. Let's stay positive though...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Without a doubt! But first, let me qualify that with the differences can range from the _good, the bad and the ugly! _During the past couple of months, I have enjoyed experienced all three, many times (most) to less than desirable results. Tonight, we're shaking it up again with a different config - different footers/spikes with components on other surfaces in different places. Soooo many combos!
> 
> The night I took the pix shown above, the sonic presentation was a complete failure! But the configs tried last week were both good and promising. Adding new tweaks in 10 days, so things are not yet decided. Caveat - the wrong size footer, the wrong material, improper weight distribution, wrong surface and ect can all destroy and deaden the sound. Like other manually tuned items, you can get close, you could get lucky and then completely overshoot the mark! And that's ok 'cause tweaking/experimenting can lead to new insights - wasting time today to save money tomorrow!


 
   
  Wow, no idea it was so complicated and that the change could shift so drastically.. keep us posted on your results!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Wow, no idea it was so complicated and that the change could shift so drastically.. keep us posted on your results!


 
   
  One thing it does for me now is to consider and examine a unit's stocking feet. And be more selective where in the room and on what surface I place components.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One thing it does for me now is to consider and examine a unit's stocking feet. And be more selective where in the room and on what surface I place components.


 
   
  on my peachtree the stock feet can easily be screwed off, but the Woo doesn't seem to be like that.. Did you have cones on your SE or was it just stock? Right now I have everything resting on cut wood on top of a wood cabinet (kind of like your set-up but much less attractive); I actually didnt do it to lower noise, instead to give some clearance for the cables as my new cabinet has a 2-inch backing (its mean to be a bookcase not a audio cabinet).


----------



## Earrat

Poor phone quality photo, I will take some better pictures with my actual camera soon.
   
  The amp arrived today, but I could only listen to it for 20 minutes, had to study all today .


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





earrat said:


> Poor phone quality photo, I will take some better pictures with my actual camera soon.
> 
> The amp arrived today, but I could only listen to it for 20 minutes, had to study all today .


 
   
  new to the 6SE crew, welcome


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> on my peachtree the stock feet can easily be screwed off, but the Woo doesn't seem to be like that.. Did you have cones on your SE or was it just stock? Right now I have everything resting on cut wood on top of a wood cabinet (kind of like your set-up but much less attractive); I actually didnt do it to lower noise, instead to give some clearance for the cables as my new cabinet has a 2-inch backing (its mean to be a bookcase not a audio cabinet).


 
   
  Your improvisation is great making do with what you've got! I originally intercepted the Maple Butcher's block on its way to the kitchen from Bed, Bath & Beyond. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had long intended to use the same Black Dayton Speaker Spikes you see now but never got around to it. I like wicked - I was looking forward to spiking the _6 Special Edition. _




   
  Early testing shows the Mac mini fares better with the Dayton's but the amp & the DAC less so. This tells me the latter simply may need another type, shape, size and weight of footers. Or maybe just different mounting technique. But since it's "mass loading" we're talking about, the bigger and heavier footer should do much better.
   
  If I recall while looking at the bottom of the Woo, doesn't it unscrew? Also something to consider is the twin chassis design - the power supply could send unwanted vibes to the amp if sitting on the same surface. Possible, I suppose. I was going to go with two small independent platforms but got caught up in rolling tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





earrat said:


> Poor phone quality photo, I will take some better pictures with my actual camera soon.
> 
> The amp arrived today, but I could only listen to it for 20 minutes, had to study all today .


 
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> new to the 6SE crew, welcome


 
   
  Excellent model and color selection, Earrat! What was your maiden track played on the amp?


----------



## roadster-s

Welcome fellow WA6SE member. We both received them the same week! I wonder if our serial numbers are close...
  Quote: 





earrat said:


> Poor phone quality photo, I will take some better pictures with my actual camera soon.
> 
> The amp arrived today, but I could only listen to it for 20 minutes, had to study all today .


----------



## melville

Hi guys,
  I'm interested to order the WA22 but I wonder whether it's possible to tube-roll it to sound dynamic, fast and energetic as the WA6-SE? Have you WA22 owners found specific tube-roll for that purpose?
  I'm afraid that the WA22 is more into smooth, mellow and tubey WA2 direction rather than the WA6-SE.
  Thanks for your help!


----------



## kchew

I find that the WA22 can be an utter chameleon with different tube combinations. If I wanted something solid-state sounding, I'd go for EML 5U4G, JAN Raytheon VT-231 and Tung Sol 5998, or Mullard GZ34, Mullard ECC32 and Tung Sol 7236. The beauty of an amp that's this easy to tweak and fine-tune is that you'll never get bored of having just one sound signature.


----------



## Earrat

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Welcome fellow WA6SE member. We both received them the same week! I wonder if our serial numbers are close...


 
  Congrats man! 
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Excellent model and color selection, Earrat! What was your maiden track played on the amp?


 
   
  I've only listened for about an hour, but Debussy, Ravel, and Miles Davis sound pretty incredible. From my experience, every time I upgrade a piece of equipment, my musical preferences change. 
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> new to the 6SE crew, welcome


 
   
  Thank you, sir!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Okay, so the how do you order tube adapters from Woo Audio. They are nowhere to be found on their website anywhere. No links, no information, nothing. I'm looking for the 6SN7 to 68FG adapters - a pair.
> 
> Edit: Well, I just sent $96 to Woo Audio's PayPal with a note that I wanted these adapters. Hope that is all it takes. Man, that seems pricy for adapters. Ugh.


 
   
  Are you sure they are still making them? I ordered probably the first pair of those just after announced and took at least 4 months to get them mainly because they were busy producing other stuff more profitable.
  I thought they decided to stop that because they were not very profitable for them. They are beautiful but mine were noisy because the wire of the grid cap was too thin and not insulated so they were picking up noise from the 300B tubes. I end up sending them to Glenn to get the wire and cap replaced and now they are silent.


----------



## Sid-Fi

No, I am not sure they are making them. I found the Woo Audio thread announcing the adaptors and saw that they never added a post saying they were no longer selling them. However, trying to figure that out with no product, comment, or even FAQ about them is really irritating.
   
  I'll have to email Jack and ask him to refund the PayPal unless they are still selling them and ship within a week or so. My 6 week wait for the WA22 was enough for me. It looks like its a chinese or korean adaptor from ebay now since I can't find one anywhere.


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I find that the WA22 can be an utter chameleon with different tube combinations. If I wanted something solid-state sounding, I'd go for EML 5U4G, JAN Raytheon VT-231 and Tung Sol 5998, or Mullard GZ34, Mullard ECC32 and Tung Sol 7236. The beauty of an amp that's this easy to tweak and fine-tune is that you'll never get bored of having just one sound signature.


 
   
  Totally. Not too hard to find combos that are faster / leaner than I want (and that's with my LCD-3s).
  I have all those tubes except the ECC32s.  I agree a GZ34 would be a good backbone. Then some sort of 7236 power tubes for nice, hard attacks. Bad boys, those Raytheons, or maybe Sylvania 5692s for drivers? Loads of others too.  
   
  I've also had some nice synergy with EML 5U4G + GEC 6080 + Sylvania 5692. But that's a very different, tooby sound.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> No, I am not sure they are making them. I found the Woo Audio thread announcing the adaptors and saw that they never added a post saying they were no longer selling them. However, trying to figure that out with no product, comment, or even FAQ about them is really irritating.
> 
> I'll have to email Jack and ask him to refund the PayPal unless they are still selling them and ship within a week or so. My 6 week wait for the WA22 was enough for me. It looks like its a chinese or korean adaptor from ebay now since I can't find one anywhere.


 
   
  I would be very surprise if they can ship them in less than 4 weeks but is best to contact Jack.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for the heads up. I'll probably send Jack an email tonight.
   
  I notice there are only a couple of sellers on Ebay that produce these adaptors. They are sourced from China and Korea if I recall correctly. The pictures of the adapters don't look very impressive at all, but the sellers have fantastic reviews. Does anyone have any experience with these sellers - leemoom611 or ayumitubes?
   
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I would be very surprise if they can ship them in less than 4 weeks but is best to contact Jack.


----------



## john57

Some Ebay sellers that produce these adapters uses very thin grid wire that is not attractive at all and could pick up noise more. Some adapters will not fit the Woo very well.


----------



## Dixter

Sid-fi...   When I bought my tubes off of Ebay they came with adapters...   but they are not the adapters that would fit a WA6.. they look OK and I'm sure they work fine... just not sure on what
  amp they were built for...
   
  I ended up getting a set from Glenn...      anyway...  if you decided to get them from Ebay, Jack Woo or Glenn make sure you ask for the correct adapter or you may end up with an adapter
  that you cant use....  just saying, be very specific about what you want when you order them...


----------



## xinque

Question about the low and high impedance outputs, apologies since I'm oblivious to sound science.  Currently using the WA5 high impedance out with my T1, and I'm finding the gain from the ECC32 sometimes has me leaving the volume knob at under nine'o'clock.  Is it true that if I switch to low impedance it would give me more control over the volume (as in letting me go further on the volume knob without going deaf)?  Also, would that impact the sound quality?  Dunno if it's hearsay but think I saw a post mentioning that on here once as a solution.
   
  Thanks all !


----------



## Xcalibur255

It will lower the output impedance a little bit.  Power transfer is ideal with the output impedance of the amp and the impedance of the load are closely matched so by widening the impedance mismatch against your high impedance T1s you are slightly reducing the drive capability of the amp for this load and this is where the slightly reduced volume is coming from.  It shouldn't harm sound quality at all, but it is safe to switch the mode while the amp is operating so you can always flip back and forth and compare for yourself.  If anything it provides better damping which should improve bass control a bit.  That last part is pretty hotly debated btw.
   
  A second option is to reduce the input signal going to the amp.  If your DAC is outputting a strong signal to the amp that is part of why the volume range is limited amp side.  Mine is 2.25V for exampe which is pretty average but some DACs put out a lot more.  Most CD players are 2.0V or less.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Good news. Jack replied quickly and said the 6NS7 to 6F8G adapter I ordered would ship within a few days. Glad to know Woo is still making them and getting them out in a timely manner.
   
  I also jumped the gun and ordered one of the cheaper ebay adapters since I wasn't sure if Woo was even making them. At least now I'll be able to compare the Woo adapter to the ebay one and let others know how they compare. The pair from ebay was $30 compared to the $90 for the Woo, but the latter certainly look nicer. Here is a pick of the ebay one I ordered from seller zhangsheng. The wire definitely looks thin and I could picture it picking up noise, but who knows.
   
  I'll post a picture of the Woo adaptor below. Looks nice but also very thin wire.


----------



## musicman59

That's good news for you. Let us know if the Woo pick up nose as mine did.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> That's good news for you. Let us know if the Woo pick up noise as mine did.


 
   
  This certainly speaks to Glenn's work being one of quality.


----------



## musicman59

Yes it is. I end up sending my Woo adapters to Glenn. He placed the cap and wire and now they are silent like Silent One.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Don't remind me. He never answered my PM.
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yes it is. I end up sending my Woo adapters to Glenn. He placed the cap and wire and now they are silent like Silent One.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Don't remind me. He never answered my PM.


 
   
  Sid-Fi, before you get the wrong impression, his absence of late has been of critical importance. He's always been a stand up guy and member here on Head-Fi. Many of us can testify receiving PM's day & night in a timely manner from him. Sorry you were not able to hear from him at this time. Hopefully, his return to this space will be soon..._ and celebrated._
   
  Thanks for your understanding, Sid-Fi.
   
  Kindly spoken,
   
  Silent One


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yes it is. I end up sending my Woo adapters to Glenn. He placed the cap and wire and now they are silent like Silent One.


 
   
  If I'm going to break my silence, it might as well be over music and audio...


----------



## Sid-Fi

No wrong impressions here. It is abundantly clear how well regarded he is. 
   
  I just assumed that he might not want to work on adapters any more due to being busy with his amplifiers or other endeavors as others have pointed out. No one is obligated to create or sell any products they don't want to. I was just bummed because for a while it seemed there were no options for good adapters while I had just sprung for nice tubes that required them.
   
  I've feeling much better knowing that Jack will be shipping my adapters within a few business days. I'm just crossing my fingers it doesn't have any noise interference.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sid-Fi, before you get the wrong impression, his absence of late has been of critical importance. He's always been a stand up guy and member here on Head-Fi. Many of us can testify receiving PM's day & night in a timely manner from him. Sorry you were not able to hear from him at this time. Hopefully, his return to this space will be soon..._ and celebrated._
> 
> Thanks for your understanding, Sid-Fi.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> No wrong impressions here. It is abundantly clear how well regarded he is.
> 
> I just assumed that he might not want to work on adapters any more due to being busy with his amplifiers or other endeavors as others have pointed out. No one is obligated to create or sell any products they don't want to. I was just bummed because for a while it seemed there were no options for good adapters while I had just sprung for nice tubes that required them.
> 
> I've feeling much better knowing that Jack will be shipping my adapters within a few business days. I'm just crossing my fingers it doesn't have any noise interference.


 
   





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know what you felt, we're addicts! That was me who posted on his current endeavors, by the way. I was trying to be discreet. Is there any way you could ask Jack to simply use a heavier gauge wire while he's at it? It's not too late!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Is it just a matter of thicker gauge wire or shielding and other factors?
   
  By the way Silent One, could you give me a few recommendations that you think would be the best bang for the buck isolation components to start off with? It sounded like you have a lot of experience in this area. My audio rack seems to be a nice sturdy basis, but I would like to add isolation feet or cones or spikes or whatever to make sure I'm not giving up extra sharpness and resolution.
   
  My amp as you know is the WA22 and the DAC I am using is the Audio-gd NFB-10WM. I'll repost a pic I added to show a close up of both. I was going to PM you, but I would like to hit 500 posts this year - lol. Plus this entire thread feels like a long group PM, which I like .
   

  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know what you felt, we're addicts! That was me who posted on his current endeavors, by the way. I was trying to be discreet. Is there any way you could ask Jack to simply use a heavier gauge wire while he's at it? It's not too late!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Is it just a matter of thicker gauge wire or shielding and other factors?
> 
> By the way Silent One, could you give me a few recommendations that you think would be the best bang for the buck isolation components to start off with? It sounded like you have a lot of experience in this area. My audio rack seems to be a nice sturdy basis, but I would like to add isolation feet or cones or spikes or whatever to make sure I'm not giving up extra sharpness and resolution.
> 
> My amp as you know is the WA22 and the DAC I am using is the Audio-gd NFB-10WM. I'll repost a pic I added to show a close up of both. I was going to PM you, but I would like to hit 500 posts this year - lol. Plus this entire thread feels like a long group PM, which I like .


 
   
  You have an extraordinary sense of timing! I just sat down not 15 minutes ago to start gluing some footers on my amp to experiment further. I still know very little about the "Secret sauce" and what it takes. I understand the basics but once I start to experiment, I realize there are many combinations that can affect your sound one way or another. 
   
  I learned a couple of things last week by playing around with platforms and footers. One, sometimes the sonic presentations realized are neither better or worse than what I had but just different. I am reminded of tubes in this regard. So then, running through my music library revealed some of my favorite tracks sound better some of the time and sometimes less so. Then a decision has to be made: "Will most of my favorites sound better this way or that way?" Tracks that formerly sounded just ok now sounds great with new footers/platform. And some tracks that always sounded great now sounds poor or not so good... _merde!_
   
_I'll share whatever I know from both reading and actual doing (real world)._ Now that I've found a few things out, I'll now be on the lookout every once in awhile to improve my system through isolation. Also, even if one manages to place their component onto a nice platform with footers, it is considered to be Direct-coupled" as opposed to "Isolated." Unless the footers are specifically designed to isolate from ground vibrations. A quick test: if you shake the platform or surface below the component, and if the component follows the movement of shaking, it is "coupled" not isolated. If the component is trying to maintain its center while there's shaking underneath, then the component is truly isolated. This part of the hobby reminds me of Seismic studies.
   
  Perhaps, I've said all that to say, I'm not sure what to recommend as I read up first and only now beginning to play around to find out what I like... and I don't want to spend a lot and end up with junk! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm drinking the Mapleshade kool-aid by the cup, not by the pitcher. Anyway, concentrate on your source first, this is the area of my biggest gain with footers and platforms (Front-end and DAC). The amp can still benefit but there's more payoff upstream.
   
  You're off to a great start with the rack though! Should you have questions, I'll do my best to help you out. And if you do not, I'll simply share my findings along the way while I continue to research. Lastly, on the adapter, you'll benefit from having thicker wire, insulation and grid cap. I'd send Jack a Tweet in hopes he can address this on Monday.


----------



## roadster-s

Strange, I wanted to share a few pictures of the isolation work I've done on my own DAC and source player, but I can't see the option keys at the top of the page anymore...!?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Is it just a matter of thicker gauge wire or shielding and other factors?


 
   
  Sid, I have a pair of both Glenn's and the Woo's adapters. Both are first rate quality. The important difference is that Glenn positions the cap wire on one of the sockets such that the external cap wire exits the socket base at a point which will be furthest away from the rectifier once installed.
   
  One may accomplish the same results with the Woo version by rotating (to the extent possible) the cap such that the wire is pointing away from the rectifier.
   
  I have not heard any difference between Glenn's and Woo's "noise" wise. I also don't think the wire size is of any real consequence, given the current that this wire has running through it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Strange, I wanted to share a few pictures of the isolation work I've done on my own DAC and source player, but I can't see the option keys at the top of the page anymore...!?


 
   
  It is strange, I'm looking at them as I type. Perhaps, you should close out the page and/or browser and work it out... we wanna see those pix!




   
  Wait, top of the page?! You mean the top of the Content box don't you? See example below:


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I agree with SO and totally support and recommend Glenn's integrity, workmanship, communication and kindness. If he has not answer I don't think is for lack of interest or just blowing people off.
  I have not seen his posts in the forum lately so it has to be a very good and valid reason.
   
  Let's hope he reintegrates to our community soon.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Is it just a matter of thicker gauge wire or shielding and other factors?
> 
> By the way Silent One, could you give me a few recommendations that you think would be the best bang for the buck isolation components to start off with? It sounded like you have a lot of experience in this area. My audio rack seems to be a nice sturdy basis, but I would like to add isolation feet or cones or spikes or whatever to make sure I'm not giving up extra sharpness and resolution.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have not seen that rack in person but for what Wotts tells me (he has one) it might need some added weight to make a really solid base for your system. I would recommend if possible to fill the post with sand or even better with micro-berrings ( http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/micro.html ) The micro-berrings will not only provide more weight but also help to damp vibration of the whole rack.
   
  I have use several different vibration control accessories to either coupled or de-coupled the equipment. For equipment racks or amplifier platforms the best I have found are the Sistrum ( http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/shopping.html ) I am using the SP-101 under my Threshold monoblocks and the results are just amazing. I don't want to go over the whole story of what happened during the installation but if you are interested to know shoot me a PM.
   
  For accessories under components I have use several too but IMO the ones that have given me the best results are the Black Racing Cones in combination with Pillows or Discs ( http://www.musicdirect.com/c-626-accessories.aspx?sortfield=Popularity&sortdirection=DESC&perpage=24&BrandFilterID=76& ). Also the Stillpoins with Rasiers ( http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Save--130-per-set-on-Stillpoints-package-  this is a nice package) or the Via-Blu spikes to replace the stock footers ( http://aphroditecu29.com/ViaBlue/SpikesAbsorbers.aspx ) I am using the QTC in my WA5-LE and the HS under my Dark Star. Ray Samuels uses the HS under his top of the line equipment like the B52 and A-10.


----------



## roadster-s

Quote:Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   
  Wait, top of the page?! You mean the top of the Content box don't you? See example below:
   
   
  DUH! I was looking at the wrong place! DUH!
   
  OK, so from my own experiences, out of the two (DAC and Player) the source player yielded the most improvement. But let's start with the DAC. After trying sorbothane cups, I went with these, Viablue Tri:
   


   
  So hard to put into words, but the sorbothane cups somewhat muddied the localisation of the instruments, but the Tri feet brought things back into focus. Can I say that I heard an improvement over the stock EE DAC feet? No, I would probably loose out on an A/B repeated blind test. Now, Eastern Electric already has some very good stock isolation feet, so...
   
  Now from the source player, there was a pretty clear improvement. I guess reduced jitter would be the best way to describe it: Pitch black background and improved air around instruments, percussions particularly. I can hear the residual sound from the instrument clearly moving further beyond than before. What I did was to simply copy what Modwright does. I lined the interior cover with a SilverStone foam pad:
   

   
  I Then went on to isolate the transport mechanism by adding weights (wheel weights in this case)
   

   

   
  I'd played around with several isolation feet for my player before, but none brought as much obvious improvement than these two steps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have not seen that rack in person but for what Wotts tells me (he has one) it might need some added weight to make a really solid base for your system. I would recommend if possible to fill the post with sand or even better with micro-berrings ( http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/micro.html ) The micro-berrings will not only provide more weight but also help to damp vibration of the whole rack.
> 
> I have use several different vibration control accessories to either coupled or de-coupled the equipment. For equipment racks or amplifier platforms the best I have found are the Sistrum ( http://www.starsoundtechnologies.com/shopping.html ) I am using the SP-101 under my Threshold monoblocks and the results are just amazing. I don't want to go over the whole story of what happened during the installation but if you are interested to know shoot me a PM.
> 
> For accessories under components I have use several too but IMO the ones that have given me the best results are the Black Racing Cones in combination with Pillows or Discs ( http://www.musicdirect.com/c-626-accessories.aspx?sortfield=Popularity&sortdirection=DESC&perpage=24&BrandFilterID=76& ). Also the Stillpoins with Rasiers ( http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Save--130-per-set-on-Stillpoints-package-  this is a nice package) or the Via-Blu spikes to replace the stock footers ( http://aphroditecu29.com/ViaBlue/SpikesAbsorbers.aspx ) I am using the QTC in my WA5-LE and the HS under my Dark Star. Ray Samuels uses the HS under his top of the line equipment like the B52 and A-10.


 
   





 This is almost as good as reading the Sunday paper! And would have been 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 had I found some color photos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to read up on some of these, as my longest running devices underneath have been Tri-Absorbers. Thanks for your assistance. We never tire of your pix - we especially want to see the Mono blocks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> So hard to put into words, but the sorbothane cups somewhat muddied the localisation of the instruments, but the Tri feet brought things back into focus. Can I say that I heard an improvement over the stock EE DAC feet? No, I would probably loose out on an A/B repeated blind test. Now, Eastern Electric already has some very good stock isolation feet, so...
> 
> Now from the source player, there was a pretty clear improvement. I guess reduced jitter would be the best way to describe it: Pitch black background and improved air around instruments, percussions particularly. I can hear the residual sound from the instrument clearly moving further beyond than before. What I did was to simply copy what Modwright does. I lined the interior cover with a SilverStone foam pad:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great effort, fellow Head-Fier, Woo mate and CCA member. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Love the Step-by-step illustration for those of us learning; scoring at home! I too, have been featuring Tri-Absorbers. The Music server has seen the biggest benefits, the amp and the DAC are too close to call. But I have new Maple coming Thursday for the amp, and a new tweak for the Mac coming in 10 days. Then finally, I should be able to get some big brass footers for the Mac or amp in June. Simply can't afford to buy & try everything at once.
   
  So my tweaks are coming in stages and I'm withholding final judgement until each system of tweaks is realized. Of course, I'll share my opinion along the way but to recommend or not is still to come.
   
  Silent notes: Last night, I replaced the Tri-Absorbers under the Mac and threw the Dayton spikes back underneath - blew the middle w-i-d-e open! I noticed this method of coupling mainly returns an emphasized Mid-range; Treble. Things certainly got bigger-wider-deeper. Nuthin' to listen out for neither - it is that apparent. And Bass is still full and tight (_Is there any other way?_).
   
  I just can't seem to eek out any performance gain like this with the DAC. I'll be able to know more when the Mac is fully setup - then making changes only on the DAC will (should) reveal something, as it's next in line going downstream of components.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I agree with SO and totally support and recommend Glenn's integrity, workmanship, communication and kindness. If he has not answer I don't think is for lack of interest or just blowing people off.
> I have not seen his posts in the forum lately so it has to be a very good and valid reason.
> 
> Let's hope he reintegrates to our community soon.


 
   
  Yes, and his new designation as "MOT" (Member of the Trade) awaits...


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But I have new Maple coming Thursday for the amp


 
   
  Cool! I'm having three power amp stands custom made out of padauk wood. I guess maple "performs" well, I wouldn't know, but the padauk will match my amp trims. Supported by sorbothane washers sandwiched between rubber feet. Pics to follow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of course


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Cool! I'm having three power amp stands custom made out of padauk wood. I guess maple "performs" well, I wouldn't know, but the padauk will match my amp trims. Supported by sorbothane washers sandwiched between rubber feet. Pics to follow...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Pure Maple performs very well. I can't wait to see how the pair of Maple platforms look underneath my yet to be acquired Black WA5!_ I bet it would look... (insert favorite description here)... and sound... (insert correct description here)._


----------



## musicman59

silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, here are some pictures. First the Via-Blu QTC under my WA5-LE.

Now one of my Threshold T400 on a Sistrum SP-101 platform:

Here is one of my beloved B&W 801 Matrix S3 with it's T400 monoblock. Hopefully those 801 Matrix S3 will be replaced soon by a pair of B&W 800 Matrix in rosewood.

Here are some of my electronics. The unit at the top is the Threshold T2 pre-amp. There you can see the Audio Points and discs. The Dark Star had the stock cones before being replaced by Via-Blu HS spikes.

This is what I have underneath my PWD.


----------



## Silent One

Now that's why I come to this thread in my post Woo era - information. Thanks, musicman59! _Oh, and to look at pix to be sure..._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow very nice gear....


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow very nice gear....


 
   
  Thank you SO and DG. Hi-Fi has been my hobby and passion for many years.
  These are the speakers I am negotiating to buy to replace my 801 Matrix S3. They are a classic!
   
  They are very efficient (93db) and 4 ohms so those monoblocks will put out to them 700 watts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 6'3" tall and 285 lbs each.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Thank you SO and DG. Hi-Fi has been my hobby and passion for many years.
> These are the speakers I am negotiating to buy to replace my 801 Matrix S3. They are a classic!
> 
> They are very efficient (93db) and 4 ohms so those monoblocks will put out to them 700 watts!
> ...


 
   
  Once you get 'em dialed-in, you'd best ask your life partner..._ "Honey, do they look ok?"_ 'Cause I don't see you moving those around much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Someday, I'm going to come out to see Robert (Aphrodite Cu29)... _and check both of your schedules_.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On the BDR cones, are they reversible or are they in the proper position as shown?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Since they will be in the living room I actually ask for the wife's approval before entering in negotiations…. I know better


----------



## Sid-Fi

And here I was thinking it was a noble and selfless desire to help us newbies out...
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now that's why I come to this thread in my post Woo era - information. Thanks, musicman59! _Oh, and to look at pix to be sure..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> And here I was thinking it was a noble and selfless desire to help us newbies out...


 
   
  Honestly, it feels a bit odd these days (deja vu). Perusing the WAAOU thread while I save up enough money to buy a Woo.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you going for the WA5 or WA5-LE? 
  If you are before going for the tubes upgrades get the electronics and sockets upgrade then ask Jack for how much wire and which awg he needs and get the Neotech OCC chassis wire and Cards Eutectic solder from Soniccraft.com and send them to Jack. I makes a big difference in the overall performance. Robert advised me to do that for mine and was the right call. I also upgraded the RCAs to WBT. You can always upgrade tubes later....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Are you going for the WA5 or WA5-LE?
> If you are before going for the tubes upgrades get the electronics and sockets upgrade then ask Jack for how much wire and which awg he needs and get the Neotech OCC chassis wire and Cards Eutectic solder from Soniccraft.com and send them to Jack. I makes a big difference in the overall performance. Robert advised me to do that for mine and was the right call. I also upgraded the RCAs to WBT. You can always upgrade tubes later....


 
   
  I remember the Neotech OCC move you made. The WA5... this could take awhile. Either I'll need to stuff larger denominations inside the existing tea tins or get more tins...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps, the first order of business would be to get a job.


----------



## xinque

Dunno if it's the same for other tube amps, but I've spent more on tubes for my WA5 than the amp itself.  Rolling 300B and NOS 6SN7 adds up before you know it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I remember the Neotech OCC move you made. The WA5... this could take awhile. Either I'll need to stuff larger denominations inside the existing tea tins or get more tins...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cacatalysis

WA5 is not the worst.  With a slightly modified BA, you can play with 300B, PX25 and PX4 as power tubes and 6SN7s, BL63, 6SU7, 6SL7 as driver tubes.


----------



## Silent One

From where I sit, tube options for the '5' is a luxury I'd love to have. 'Cause while in pursuit I'd still be able to enjoy the music...


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1 for sure here - very nice and thanks for the links as well on the isolation gear. Man, your SP-101 are PRICY :O. They look great though.
   
  Any idea if the QTC vs HS vs Tri are better than the others?
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow very nice gear....


----------



## Ahzari

Those ViaBlue isolator feet look awesome! - considering-
   
  On another note - got back from the LA head-fi meet tonight... very happy camper ); not much Woo love there, but some really nice stuff from ALO, V-Moda, and Audeze.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Wow, my WA22 is starting to shock me it's sounding so amazing. I thought it was fully broken in since I've had it for a couple of weeks and been putting hours on it. However, after the most amazing listening session tonight it is become obvious it is only now hitting its stride. Absolutely gorgeous. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It's too late to elaborate much, but I'll try later...


----------



## emremusic

Ok, Finally got my 6GL7 to 6DE7 adaptors, and some 6GL7 tubes for my WA6SE.. I also switched back to my Sophia.
   
  WOWeee. This set up, completely changed the character of the amp from the stock tubes.
   
  My initial experience is the amp is about twice, or one/third more powerful than before. Anything after 10-11 o'clock will hurt my ears, and probably blow my headphones. 
   
  The sound..the treble extension has greatly increased. On the website Woo audio describes this as "you can hear the air around the notes". With jazz combo recordings I can hear and differentiate the wash of the cymbal along with the rest of the band. Saxophone is much more alive. Bass is deeper and tighter, but the increase treble range and detail is what sticks out the most here. I want to say almost a bit sibilant but I need to listen a bit more. 
   
  There is also a bit "vintage", fragile character to the sound of the amp now. It's still fast, but that Solid state character is gone. 
   
  One thing that I want to ask, is now the amp is VERY NOISY. I tried different 6GL7 tubes (westinghouse and General Electric), but the same story. There is no noise at 8 o'clock but it starts at 9, an it's very audible. At 12 o'clock, the hiss/noise is loud, 3 o'clock, VERY loud. With the stock tubes it was only a little white noise at the very end of the amp. The noise with 6GL7 is not just white noise, but also a harsh static sound. 
   
  Since the amp is more powerful, I'm listening to it at 8 o'clock..so noise is not so much of an issue, but is this normal? The more power of the amp comes along with harsh noise?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Ok, Finally got my 6GL7 to 6DE7 adaptors, and some 6GL7 tubes for my WA6SE.. I also switched back to my Sophia.
> 
> WOWeee. This set up, completely changed the character of the amp from the stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I noticed the 6FD7 tubes (which are higher gain tubes like the 6GL7s) made my amp much more noisy as well, thats one of the reasons I switched back to my 6EW7s which are close to dead silent; I figured after trying so hard to make the background so silent with a power conditioner and better cables, why waste it with noisy high gain tubes (that I didnt need with my can). 
   
  I remember messaging Woo Audio about getting the 6GL7s and my concern about noise, they told me if I thought the FD7s were noisy the GL7s will be even worse because they are even higher gain - hence I backed off.


----------



## emremusic

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I noticed the 6FD7 tubes (which are higher gain tubes like the 6GL7s) made my amp much more noisy as well, thats one of the reasons I switched back to my 6EW7s which are close to dead silent; I figured after trying so hard to make the background so silent with a power conditioner and better cables, why waste it with noisy high gain tubes (that I didnt need with my can).
> 
> I remember messaging Woo Audio about getting the 6GL7s and my concern about noise, they told me if I thought the FD7s were noisy the GL7s will be even worse because they are even higher gain - hence I backed off.


 
   
  Ok, after 2 hours, the noise dropped drastically. Not dead silent like the 6EW7s, but not bad at all. Now there just some white noise when I turn it all the way up. I wonder what that was all about but I'm much happier  maybe the adaptors needed to burn in?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> +1 for sure here - very nice and thanks for the links as well on the isolation gear. Man, your SP-101 are PRICY :O. They look great though.
> 
> Any idea if the QTC vs HS vs Tri are better than the others?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yes they are pricy now. They were a little less when I bought them. They are really worth th emoney. Is the pice of vibration control equimpent that I have noticed (and my wife) made the biggest difference.
   
  Ok, Here goes the story....
  I bought some Audio Points spikes from them already and I was looking a pair of amp stands. Bob the owner conviced me to give to the SP-101 a try. I received them a few days later and when I was assembling them I broke a screw for one of the legs (which are filled with micro-berrings) so I could not finish assembling it. I proceeded to assmbel the second one, finished it and placed it under the left monoblock so I had the left on the stand and the right on the floor.
   
  When I fired up the system the soundstage was shifted to the left. I thought I have a connection problem so I check every single connection in the system and nothing changed. What really made me think something was really wrong was when my wife, who can not distinguish ( or care) the sound difference between a Hi-Fi system and a transistor radio walked by and suddently stop to tell me that the left speake was sounding to her loader than the right one.
   
  Next day I call Bob to order a replacement screw and ask him what should I expect from the SP-101. He went into the whole theory of the effect of vibration in equipment and that the SP-101 were designed to drain that vibration therefore the equipment will work more efficeint. So I asked him if the result will be higher perfromance hance higher out volume? and he said yes. At that point was still not a believer.
   
  2 days later I received the replacement screw and finished the right stand. I placed it under the right monoblock and fire the system. To my surprise the soundstage shifted back to the middle and working perfect.
   
  I know it sounds unbelievable but it happend just like that and that experience made me believe on vibration control.
   
  I personally like the QTC and the HS over the Tri Absorbers.


----------



## ardilla

Here are the tubes I got with my newly acquired *WA22*
   
Anyody give me a hint how to get nice and *warmish *combo?
   
   
 [size=small] *Recitfiers*: [/size]
 [size=small] Sophia Princess 274b, [/size]
 [size=small] Emmision Labs 5U4G, 1 GEC 5U4G[/size]
 [size=small] Sovtek 5Z4G[/size]
 [size=small] 
*Drivers*[/size]
 [size=small] Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231, [/size]
 [size=small] Raytheon 6SN7WGT, [/size]
 [size=small] Golden Dragon 6SN7GT[/size]
 [size=small] GE 6SN7GTA [/size]
 [size=small] 
*Power*: [/size]
 [size=small] Tung-Sol 5998, [/size]
 [size=small] Sylvania 7236[/size]
 [size=small] Raytheon 6AS7G og [/size]
 [size=small] RCA JAN CRC 6080 [/size]


----------



## jc9394

Wow, after a week MIA in Sin city.  I'm more than 10 pages behind.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow, after a week MIA in Sin city.  I'm more than 10 pages behind.


 
   
  No one should ever be in Vegas for more than 3 days at a time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Here are the tubes I got with my newly acquired *WA22*
> 
> Anyody give me a hint how to get nice and *warmish *combo?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  sophia, not sure on the driver tubes, and get 7236 for the power, the raytheon should also be slightly on the warmer side of things. the 5998 are more open and transparent as far as i kno


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Here are the tubes I got with my newly acquired *WA22*
> 
> Anyody give me a hint how to get nice and *warmish *combo?
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1 on the Sophia Princess if your looking for a warmer tone.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

really enjoying my RS1i as of lately. 
   
  WA6-SE + RS1 rocks! so much energy and dynamics. can be a little strong on the treble at times, but not overwhelmingly so. 
   
   
  Listening to Tool's _Lateralus_ album is such an amazing experience.


----------



## ardilla

Whats the techs behind the HI-LO switch on the WA22? Does it alter the output impedance?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Whats the techs behind the HI-LO switch on the WA22? Does it alter the output impedance?


 
   

 Yes, I usually keep it Hi on most of my cans.


----------



## Silent One

I will remove the tubes not owned from the list. Selections in *Bold* type.
    
   
  Quote:


ardilla said:


> Here are the tubes I got with my newly acquired *WA22*
> 
> Anyody give me a hint how to get nice and *warmish *combo?
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Whats the techs behind the HI-LO switch on the WA22? Does it alter the output impedance?


 
   
  The output transformers are tapped for two different impedances.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice. My Tung Sol black glass rib plate 68FG and Mullard GZ34 just got here. Even better news is that my Woo adapter for the TS BGRP shipped today! So much for Woo no longer making them or some long wait. They shipped within two business days.


----------



## Silent One

Stunning! Want to see a pix of your Tung-Sol 6F8G w/adapter.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The output transformers are tapped for two different impedances.


 
   
  +1
   
   
  i dunno how the WA22 compares but the WA6-SE is supposed to measure 50 ohms for high and 15 ohms for the low outputs. those where measurements done in a review somewhere i think, and i know someone on the forums emailed jack about it once and he said 60 ohms for high i think.


----------



## Earrat

I have a story to tell.
   
  Disclaimer: I am dumb when it comes to this kind of stuff, pardon my ignorance. 
   
  So last night I accidentally unplugged my USB cable that connects my computer to my DAC. So I plug it back in, but now instead of that silky beautiful ear noise, I get this horrible feedback, buzz, hum, and distortion coming through my headphones. Naturally, I start freaking out, and assume the worst. I frantically start testing everything; I roll new tubes, but apparently one of my tubes I rolled is broken(or I suck and didn't put it in all the way), so then I think I must have really caused some serious damage, perhaps I shorted out the tube socket as well (don't even know if this is possible, but like I said, I am stupid and distraught, lol), I try multiple ICs, power cables, I try my other laptop, I try stacking my DAC on a book, and my amp on another book far from both my computer and DAC, still the same problem. At this point I feel pretty defeated, and I decide to just lean back in my chair and sulk in self-pity. As I lean back, I realize I miscalculated my lean, and that I am about to bust my ass. Quickly, I flail forward and catch myself in the nick of time, preventing insult to injury. I mutter some expletives, and I put my headphones back on, but now the noise is gone... nothing, silent, absolutely no hum, buzz, feedback, etc. I am in shock, did my clumsiness just fix my problem? I notice that my laptop screen is dimmer, and that my charger is unplugged and laying on my desk. I plug the charger back in, the horrible noise is back, I unplug it, the noise is gone. So apparently when I initially unplugged my USB cable I must have jostled my delicate cable management, and moved the USB cable too close to my charger cable. I rearranged my cables, and now everything works perfectly fine, lol. 
   
  Thought I would share my stupidity with you all. Needless to say, I am very happy I just have an embarrassing story at this point.


----------



## ardilla

I plugged the audio input to the sub output once. There were sound coming from the amp, but slightly distorted and the amp had some very strange behavior......


----------



## keph

need help here i just purchased a WA6SE and could anyone recommend the best tubes for using with LCD-2 Rev.1 and HiFiman HE-500 headphones..?
   
  Thank you...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





earrat said:


> I have a story to tell.
> 
> Disclaimer: I am dumb when it comes to this kind of stuff, pardon my ignorance.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's why isolation in singal cables is so important. Those little suckers are like anntenas and if not isolated properly will suck in all the interferance from electrical sources.


----------



## Silent One

Additionally, make sure power cables do not run parallel to interconnects, speaker wires and other cables. If possible, have power cords "cross" the other cables.


----------



## Norway

I've recently placed an order for the black version of WA6-SE. It will be used with Grace Design m903 as a DAC and I have Denon AH-D2000 and AH-D7000. Can't wait to try this combo! Unfortunately it's 3-4 weeks lead time due to under capacity at Woo.


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





norway said:


> I've recently placed an order for the black version of WA6-SE. It will be used with Grace Design m903 as a DAC and I have Denon AH-D2000 and AH-D7000. Can't wait to try this combo! Unfortunately it's 3-4 weeks lead time due to under capacity at Woo.


 
   
  Congrats fellow WA6SE member. BTW, almost everyone waits that long, this is Woo's normal lead time from what I've read.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

when i ordered mine, it got shipped that very night.
   
   
  only had to wait 2 days for WA2, and i could barely wait that long.


----------



## Silent One

Ah, but it takes additional time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 _to make sure that the 6 Special Edition is indeed... special. _


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> when i ordered mine, it got shipped that very night.
> 
> 
> only had to wait 2 days for WA2, and i could barely wait that long.


 
   
  lol wow you were lucky! WA6 and WA6SE both took about a month on my end...


----------



## ardilla

If wa2 is 2 days, then wa22 should be 22 days


----------



## Silent One

I can't help but wonder what the WA234 Mono would look like with an all Black anodized finish. Or how my heart rate would look on the monitor shortly thereafter...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Or what your wallet's heart rate would be after buying them.


----------



## Silent One

And forget clearing out the listening room to make space for it... _the room (and home?) will be cleared out from the sell-off!_


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Is that accurate for the non-SE?
> And why is it so difficult to get an answer from Woo when it should be something they put on the spec sheet anyways? Really frustrates me that he's ignored my question twice.


 
   
  Well, better late than never with this reply. 
   
  I just measured the output impedance of my WA6.  Using a digital multimeter, a 33 ohm resistor, a 60hz sine wave file generated by Audacity, and a few alligator clip cables.
   
  Low output:  ~14 ohms
  High output: ~42 ohms
   
  Give or take one or two ohms.


----------



## xinque

And say hello to my tax return.  Was tempted to making an unboxing video almost.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
 
   
  Tube is at 0 hours and it already puts my burnt in EML 300B meshes to shame..


----------



## Ahzari

very nice xinque, congrats!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> And say hello to my tax return.  Was tempted to making an unboxing video almost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 A confectioner's delight!


----------



## xinque

The packaging was just so inviting..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Could just be new toy syndrome (doubtful) but wondering if anyone's ever felt that a tube sounded worse after burn-in?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





xinque said:


> And say hello to my tax return.  Was tempted to making an unboxing video almost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Super duper sweet, love them the first time I saw it on another thread.  My wallet will hate me if I ever get a WA5...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ah, but it takes additional time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1 haha I just saw this...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xinque said:


> And say hello to my tax return.  Was tempted to making an unboxing video almost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Where can this be bought? I have look around for them but cannot find them….


----------



## Szadzik

Two questions for all the WA owners.
   
   
  What tubes would you recommend as the most resolving?
   
  Has anyone tried WA2 with HE-500? Does it have enough power to drive them? Looking at the specs I see HE-500s require 1 Watt and WA2 will only output around 300 mW at 32 Ohm.


----------



## xinque

Check PM  
   
  As far as I know ordering direct from a Japanese retailer is the only way, I looked online for this for awhile too but never found an online retailer that carried them.
   
  Running these alongside Mullard ECC32 and EML 5U4G meshes at the moment, I think it's the best combination I've heard on my WA5 to date.  At zero hours I felt it was already more resolving, slightly more forward than my burnt in EML 300B meshes.  Definitely more fluid and musical, but only listened for about 3 hours tonight.  Hoping to get a longer session in by the weekend, just to make sure it's not new toy syndrome.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Where can this be bought? I have look around for them but cannot find them….


----------



## Sid-Fi

Man, those look absolutely sweet. 
   
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> And say hello to my tax return.  Was tempted to making an unboxing video almost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Elysian

My GES isn't powering up anymore, after trying two different power cords and power sockets.
   
  I removed the fuse box from the AC inlet but accidentally broke the fuse while removing it from the plastic clip.
   
  Could anyone please tell me what fuse I should replace it with?  I'm hoping to drop by Radio Shack tomorrow and get this fixed soon.  No idea what could have caused the blown fuse.  My DAC and preamp are on the same transformer, and those two devices powered up fine.
   
  If anyone has any ideas what could be the culprit, I'd be very appreciative to hear any thoughts.
   
  I've also posted this to the Stax thread.  Hopefully the repeat is ok.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Holy cow my Woo Audio adapters shipped yesterday from NY and are in Phoenix already tonight for delivery tomorrow


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Holy cow my Woo Audio adapters shipped yesterday from NY and are in Phoenix already tonight for delivery tomorrow


 
   
  "Wicked Wednesdays," brought to you in part by WooAudio...


----------



## john57

There should be markings at the ends of the fuse. The metal caps on both ends should have markings on them telling the size of the fuse. If the fuse blows again you have a problem soemwhere like a short somewhere. Do not connect the headphone and see if the amp will power up and stay up. Look at the tube heaters are they coming up?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Where can this be bought? I have look around for them but cannot find them….


 
   
   
  Check out the Takatsuki 300B thread, there's a company called Amtrans in Japan that will export and a lady there Keiko speaks good English.
   
audio@amtrans.co.jp


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Tube is at 0 hours and it already puts my burnt in EML 300B meshes to shame..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Welcome to the 300 mile high club 
   
  I already sold my EML300B mesh after getting the Takatsuki! The EML's are no slouches but the Takatsuki's are just awesome, even more so after 100 hours!  I also run mine with he 5U4G, but have Shuggy CV181 rather than the ECC32. No other 300B I have heard sounds as involving, when you plug them in you just don't think about rolling anymore - its just about the music from there on.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





elysian said:


> My GES isn't powering up anymore, after trying two different power cords and power sockets.
> 
> I removed the fuse box from the AC inlet but accidentally broke the fuse while removing it from the plastic clip.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Have you emailed Jack?


----------



## spagetka

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Welcome to the 300 mile high club
> 
> I already sold my EML300B mesh after getting the Takatsuki! The EML's are no slouches but the Takatsuki's are just awesome, even more so after 100 hours!  I also run mine with he 5U4G, but have Shuggy CV181 rather than the ECC32. No other 300B I have heard sounds as involving, when you plug them in you just don't think about rolling anymore - its just about the music from there on.


 
   
   
  Have you tried EAT 300B?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





spagetka said:


> Have you tried EAT 300B?


 
   
  I have not had the privilege no  nor have I heard the WE 300b. My wallet gets squeemish when I talk of purchasing more 300B. Really want to try the LCD3's ahead of any more big triode purchases!
   
  The 300B's Ive heard are the Sovteks, JJ's, EML Mesh, Sophia 300B-98


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Check PM
> 
> As far as I know ordering direct from a Japanese retailer is the only way, I looked online for this for awhile too but never found an online retailer that carried them.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My wallet is saying "Dam you guys!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Xinque,
  Let me know what do you think after your listening. I have those same tubes (Mullard and EML).
  I have several drivers and rectifiers so I guess is time to have a pair of 300B to roll in too.
  Money, money, money


----------



## Xcalibur255

I see Takatsuki makes a 274B tube as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

realized my TS 5998 are actually a great pair, they have alot of drive, except my line voltage might be low which is why most of my tubes on the WA2 don't like to play nice with my low impedance headphones, cause they work perfectly with the T1/ HD 800.
   
  however, i don't like their sound signature. they are very clear, open, and crazy detailed, but they aren't warm like the syl 7236 sound that i'm used to now. i like my WA2 for warmth rather than just pure detail and articulation.
   
   
  anyways, gonna put those up for sale and my extra pair of sylvania 7236 if anyones interested.
   
  also gonna put up my stock LCD-2 cable for sale.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Stunning! Want to see a pix of your Tung-Sol 6F8G w/adapter.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice.
   
   
  lol at the really tiny rectifier in the middle.


----------



## xinque

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I see Takatsuki makes a 274B tube as well.


 
   

 Yeah, saw that too.  The odd thing is I believe it's priced higher than the 300B.  Skeptical about swapping my rectifier though, Jack mentioned to me the rectifier had the least amount of impact to the sound.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> realized my TS 5998 are actually a great pair, they have alot of drive, except my line voltage might be low which is why most of my tubes on the WA2 don't like to play nice with my low impedance headphones, cause they work perfectly with the T1/ HD 800.
> 
> however, i don't like their sound signature. they are very clear, open, and crazy detailed, but they aren't warm like the syl 7236 sound that i'm used to now. i like my WA2 for warmth rather than just pure detail and articulation.
> 
> ...


 
   

 Are you sure that there aren't any other tubes that you changed as well? I have always found the TS5998s slightly warmer than the TS or Slyvania 7236?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Are you sure that there aren't any other tubes that you changed as well? I have always found the TS5998s slightly warmer than the TS or Slyvania 7236?


 
   
  Me too.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hah. You and me both. I like the long and tall GZ37 for looks.
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very nice.
> 
> 
> lol at the really tiny rectifier in the middle.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Yeah, saw that too.  The odd thing is I believe it's priced higher than the 300B.  Skeptical about swapping my rectifier though, Jack mentioned to me the rectifier had the least amount of impact to the sound.


 
   
  I honestly feel all tubes contribute pretty equally after a couple of year's worth of rolling, though often in distinctly different ways.  The rectifier makes or breaks some of the other driver/power combos depending upon how it shifts the operating voltage on the plates.


----------



## xinque

Sound science isn't really my thing.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  What does this translate into in how it will affect the sound?
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I honestly feel all tubes contribute pretty equally after a couple of year's worth of rolling, though often in distinctly different ways.  The rectifier makes or breaks some of the other driver/power combos depending upon how it shifts the operating voltage on the plates.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I honestly feel all tubes contribute pretty equally after a couple of year's worth of rolling, though often in distinctly different ways.  *The rectifier makes or breaks some of the other driver/power combos depending upon how it shifts the operating voltage on the plates. *


 
   
  I nearly broke my heart and budget over the TS-BGRP purchase before slamming into this realization. But roll we did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and kept rollin'!
  No need to mention the rectifier by name or number I suppose...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Hah. You and me both. I like the long and tall GZ37 for looks.


 
   
  Well done, Sid-Fi! So, how does it sound, are they quiet?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Are you sure that there aren't any other tubes that you changed as well? I have always found the TS5998s slightly warmer than the TS or Slyvania 7236?


 
  Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Me too.


 
   
  Interesting. When I'm back in-session Thursday night, I'll revisit these pairings. But, with my OTL amp for both the GE 3DG4 & USAF 596 recs, the Syl 7236's sound slightly warmer, softer, than the TS-5998's.


----------



## Sid-Fi

They are pretty quiet. Definitely no direct noise seems to be getting picked up and I can tap the wire on the adapter and it does not have microphonics. The adapters seem to be performing well.
   
  The Tung Sol 6F8G honestly don't sound very good yet, but then again they don't have any hours on them so hopefully they improve with break in. I've only been listening to them for 20 minutes or so, but its like they sound kind of dry and mechanical compared to broken in Sylvania 6SN7 GTA. Has anyone get these brand new before with no break in that could comment?
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well done, Sid-Fi! So, how does it sound, are they quiet?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> They are pretty quiet. Definitely no direct noise seems to be getting picked up and I can tap the wire on the adapter and it does not have microphonics. The adapters seem to be performing well.
> 
> The Tung Sol 6F8G honestly don't sound very good yet, but then again they don't have any hours on them so hopefully they improve with break in. I've only been listening to them for 20 minutes or so, but its like they sound kind of dry and mechanical compared to broken in Sylvania 6SN7 GTA. Has anyone get these brand new before with no break in that could comment?


 
   
  Seeking feedback? Before break-in?? If I could recommend one thing, it would be to play some good music... _on with the show. _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah.
   
  hmmm....
   
  i dunno ill give it another listen.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I think maybe "reassurance" might be the more appropriate word 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Seeking feedback? Before break-in?? If I could recommend one thing, it would be to play some good music... _on with the show. _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah.
> 
> hmmm....
> 
> i dunno ill give it another listen.


 
   
  We have a split vote right down the middle. Though, I wonder what recs were being used by you, MacedonianHero and Golfnutz?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I think maybe "reassurance" might be the more appropriate word


 
   
  I understand, especially when spending is involved. Just funnin' with you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But the recommendation stands.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We have a split vote right down the middle. Though, I wonder what recs were being used by you, MacedonianHero and Golfnutz?


 
   

 It didn't matter as I kept everything the same and only swapped out the power tubes. That said, my rec tubes were the 274B Sophia Princess and 5U4G EML Mesh. Could be a difference in the circuitry between the WA2 vs. WA22?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Sound science isn't really my thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The rectifier provides power to the part of the other tubes that actually amplify the audio signal.  It's called the B+ voltage.  The other tubes in the amp are expecting a specific amount of voltage to do their thing, and it is the rectifiers job to supply it.  The tricky part is that different rectifiers behave differently when they are under various loads, and when a rectifier is asked to work hard some voltage sag can appear.  How much varies depending upon the type of rectifier, but this along with some other factors such as ripple and general stability directly affects the operation of the other tubes downstream.  When these values change or vary it changes the way the other tubes are behaving and will naturally affect what you are hearing, which is why swapping a 5AR4 for a 5U4G for example produces a different sound.  It's primarily because the 5U4G has more voltage sag under load than a 5AR4 does.  The rectifier itself has no "sound" but it influences the sound of all the other tubes by changing the amount of voltage that is being applied to their plates.
   
  Just like a good power supply matters a lot to any amp, the rectifier tube is the power supply for the other tubes and can make or break some areas of performance.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nvm, you're right, they are warmer with more bloom especially in the mids, kinda hard to tell at first though. its like the opposite of what i heard earlier.


----------



## xinque

So I'm guessing the load that's put on the rectifier depends on the volume and audio signal?  These seem to be the only two variables that come to mind.  If that's the case, wouldn't it be more the recording that breaks certain tube combos than the rectifier?
   
  Quote:


xcalibur255 said:


> The rectifier provides power to the part of the other tubes that actually amplify the audio signal.  It's called the B+ voltage.  The other tubes in the amp are expecting a specific amount of voltage to do their thing, and it is the rectifiers job to supply it.  The tricky part is that different rectifiers behave differently when they are under various loads, and when a rectifier is asked to work hard some voltage sag can appear.  How much varies depending upon the type of rectifier, but this along with some other factors such as ripple and general stability directly affects the operation of the other tubes downstream.  When these values change or vary it changes the way the other tubes are behaving and will naturally affect what you are hearing, which is why swapping a 5AR4 for a 5U4G for example produces a different sound.  It's primarily because the 5U4G has more voltage sag under load than a 5AR4 does.  The rectifier itself has no "sound" but it influences the sound of all the other tubes by changing the amount of voltage that is being applied to their plates.
> 
> Just like a good power supply matters a lot to any amp, the rectifier tube is the power supply for the other tubes and can make or break some areas of performance.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I am not sure if they impact the least but one thing I know... They do impact the sound. I have roll several different one in my WA5-LE and it is clear the change in sound form one to the other keeping the same driver and power tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> It didn't matter as I kept everything the same and only swapped out the power tubes. That said, my rec tubes were the 274B Sophia Princess and 5U4G EML Mesh. Could be a difference in the circuitry between the WA2 vs. WA22?


 
   
  Dubstep Girl is now reporting the reverse and siding with what you and Golfnutz heard. I spent good time with listening rather than back and forth - left one set of power tubes in for the week and then changed. I have Glenn's custom built OTL amp and so I cannot comment on the WA2 experience between power tubes. Heard the WA2 but as pre-amp only. 
   
  The transformer could be an influence between the two Woo's though. With my custom built amp, the TS-5998's bring more clarity, details and dynamics. The Sylvania 7236's bring more warmth, softness and a bit more dreamy.


----------



## Silent One

Rolling rectifiers has always changed my order of preference for my top five drive tubes. That's how BIG the influence of rectifiers are for me.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^^
   
  As noted, I've come to my conclusion using a plethora of rectifier tubes...from my Sophia Princess and EML Mesh plate (primarily) to my 5U4G Sylvania to my 5AR4 Mullard. The TS5998 is a bit warmer and lusher and the 7236 more ss sounding. Could also be what amp these tubes find themselves in too. But I did own the WA2 and felt the same way when I owned that amp as well. YMMV, etc...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmmm i guess..
   
  i couldn't decribe the 7236 as ss sounding, not at all.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmmm i guess..
> 
> i couldn't decribe the 7236 as ss sounding, not at all.


 
   

 Just in relation to the 5998 or 6AS7. Again, IMHO.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> ^^
> 
> As noted, I've come to my conclusion using a plethora of rectifier tubes...from my Sophia Princess and EML Mesh plate (primarily) to my 5U4G Sylvania to my 5AR4 Mullard. The TS5998 is a bit warmer and lusher and the 7236 more ss sounding. Could also be what amp these tubes find themselves in too. But I did own the WA2 and felt the same way when I owned that amp as well. YMMV, etc...


 
   
  Our experiences are actually aligned. Different recs did not change what I heard from the two power tubes in questions. Drive tubes yes, not power. Only difference is what we're hearing with the two power tubes. Even that might change along with my emotions in-session. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  A quick add, MH! I totally overlooked the fact that I'm currently using D7000's @ 25 ohms, so playback with the OTL perhaps, is not under ideal circumstances. When I had the HD600's in earlier this month, the difference between power tubes was not something I checked. The cans may also matter.


----------



## Nosbig

Hello Head-fiers. I registered ages ago, but have not done much replying. I too bought GE and Westinghouse 6GL7's, and unlike most of the replies, I love them. I had GE 6FD7s coupled with my HD-800's, and thought: You know, I'm itching to try these tubes Jack's been raving about. I was pleased with the 6FD7's, so something with similar specifications should sound roughly the same. I was wrong. Right after removing the 6FD7s and installing the 6GL7s, I was greeted with deeper bass, and a crisper treble. There definitely is more gain with these tubes, but found keeping the volume control at the same point as the the 6FD7s listenable.
   
  Now I'll be honest. I do not prefer warmer sound characteristics, and prefer a bit of sibilance and bloom. The 6CY7s that came as the stock tube, I found bland and dull with my HD-800s. I also bought Jack's 7N7-6DE7 adapters and found the later GTA style 7N7s not that enjoyable. The older GT style T, or Box plates sacrificed some treble in lieu for a deeper soundstage. Seemingly I am contradicting myself, but somehow, I sort of liked the T-Plates. Oh well, If I ever build up the balls to save for a WA5-LE, I'll have the perfect driver tubes, with an adapter of course.
   
  I use to listen to my father, in a band, play music live, and found that their music was a great deal more bassy and, "treble happy" than my, sadly broken, HD-580's. I used, and still own a: Denon DCM-460, Creek OBH-11, and that was about it, as far as Hi-Fi or Mid-Fi. Now I have my HD-800's, WA-6, MHDT Havana, and a Cambridge Audio Azur 640A to from which my WA-6 is fed from. Things now sound more bassy, a bit brighter, more forgiving in the midrange, and thus more lively sounding. From hearing Head-Fi's praises of the WA5, I should be able to sit idly enough by, to save for one.
   
  Don't take all these bad reviews for granted. I could have warped hearing, but then again so could you, and you could like what the 6GL7 has to offer


----------



## Sid-Fi

I've only tried three rectifiers so far, but swapping each was a huge difference in sound characteristics. Especially comparing the Mullard GZ34 right after the Mullard GZ37 - talk about night and day difference with the same power and driver tubes. The latter is smooth and slower while the former is fast, impactful, and energetic.
   
  After my 6F8G are burned in, I would really like to try a Sophia Princess with my Sylvania chrome dome 6sn7 gta. From everything I have read so far, I am pretty good leaving my Sylvania 7236 alone and focusing on rectifier and driver combinations.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Rolling rectifiers has always changed my order of preference for my top five drive tubes. That's how BIG the influence of rectifiers are for me.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Yeah, saw that too.  The odd thing is I believe it's priced higher than the 300B.  Skeptical about swapping my rectifier though, Jack mentioned to me the rectifier had the least amount of impact to the sound.


 
   
  I can't get over this logic either, I "really" want to try a pair of the Takatsuki 274b on the WA5, but at 160,000 Yen (130,000 for the 300B pair) it seems someone nonsensical. Perhaps they're expecting folks to only require 1 for most applications.


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





nosbig said:


> Hello Head-fiers. I registered ages ago, but have not done much replying. I too bought GE and Westinghouse 6GL7's, and unlike most of the replies, I love them. I had GE 6FD7s coupled with my HD-800's, and thought: You know, I'm itching to try these tubes Jack's been raving about. I was pleased with the 6FD7's, so something with similar specifications should sound roughly the same. I was wrong. Right after removing the 6FD7s and installing the 6GL7s, I was greeted with deeper bass, and a crisper treble. There definitely is more gain with these tubes, but found keeping the volume control at the same point as the the 6FD7s listenable.
> 
> Now I'll be honest. I do not prefer warmer sound characteristics, and prefer a bit of sibilance and bloom. The 6CY7s that came as the stock tube, I found bland and dull with my HD-800s. I also bought Jack's 7N7-6DE7 adapters and found the later GTA style 7N7s not that enjoyable. The older GT style T, or Box plates sacrificed some treble in lieu for a deeper soundstage. Seemingly I am contradicting myself, but somehow, I sort of liked the T-Plates. Oh well, If I ever build up the balls to save for a WA5-LE, I'll have the perfect driver tubes, with an adapter of course.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nice write up.  I, too, own a WA6.  Your information regarding the 6GL7s is interesting.  Something for me to keep in mind, should I ever want to try out the 6GL7s.


----------



## fhuang

i finally heard a few woo amps couple days ago.  love them.  love them all.  love them so much that i even ordered one.  now waiting


----------



## greggf

Ordered a WA6SE.  Waited.  Got it.  Love it.  I mean really love it.  So ordered a WA5-LE, too.  Waiting.  This is a strange life, but it's mine............


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





greggf said:


> Ordered a WA6SE.  Waited.  Got it.  Love it.  I mean really love it.  So ordered a WA5-LE, too.  Waiting.  This is a strange life, but it's mine............


 
   
  i heard wa6 too. 
   
  ordered a black wa5 too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





greggf said:


> Ordered a WA6SE.  Waited.  Got it.  Love it.  I mean really love it.  So ordered a WA5-LE, too.  Waiting.  This is a strange life, but it's mine............


 
   
  be sure to compare them!


----------



## kchew

So many people here with WA-5s, I wonder if my turn will ever come? The Takatsuki 300B tubes are making me drool...
   
  Perhaps not so soon, the WA22 still continues to surprise and amaze me after more than a year of use. I just rolled in the 596, Sylvania Bad Boys and GEC 6AS7 a few days back and this combination sounds fantastic. I wasn't impressed with the Bad Boys with Tung Sol 5998 or 7236, but with the GECs they really woke up. They don't have the deepest bass, most extended treble or lushest midrange, but the music flows all around me in a speaker-like manner with a very balanced sound signature. Looks like the Bad Boy is my Tube of the Month.


----------



## greggf

I sure will compare the WA6SE with the WA5-LE.  My thinking is to keep the one I prefer.  It sure is nice that the pressure is off, and by that I mean that I am perfectly satisfied, in fact ecstatic, with the WA6SE and the 600/650.
   
  I've read that some folks prefer the WA6SE to the WA5??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> So many people here with WA-5s, I wonder if my turn will ever come? The Takatsuki 300B tubes are making me drool...
> 
> Perhaps not so soon, the WA22 still continues to surprise and amaze me after more than a year of use. I just rolled in the 596, Sylvania Bad Boys and GEC 6AS7 a few days back and this combination sounds fantastic. I wasn't impressed with the Bad Boys with Tung Sol 5998 or 7236, but with the GECs they really woke up. They don't have the deepest bass, most extended treble or lushest midrange, but the music flows all around me in a speaker-like manner with a very balanced sound signature. Looks like the Bad Boy is my Tube of the Month.


 
   
  Nice to see the Bad Boys have a wonderful playmate with the rectifier you rolled in... the name escapes me at the moment.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





greggf said:


> Ordered a WA6SE.  Waited.  Got it.  Love it.  I mean really love it.  So ordered a WA5-LE, too.  Waiting.  This is a strange life, but it's mine............


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i heard wa6 too.
> 
> ordered a black wa5 too.


 
   
   
  Lots of WA5s coming up soon. Mine should be here in 2 weeks. Exciting times.


----------



## xinque

Do NOS 300B tubes even exist? Other than the Western Electric which is next to impossible to find, everything else I've seen is current production.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Do NOS 300B tubes even exist? Other than the Western Electric which is next to impossible to find, everything else I've seen is current production.


 
   
  They sure do!
   
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-NIB-and-tested-/251034197911?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a72cddf97#ht_688wt_1199


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> They sure do!
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-NIB-and-tested-/251034197911?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a72cddf97#ht_688wt_1199


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





greggf said:


> I sure will compare the WA6SE with the WA5-LE.  My thinking is to keep the one I prefer.  It sure is nice that the pressure is off, and by that I mean that I am perfectly satisfied, in fact ecstatic, with the WA6SE and the 600/650.
> 
> I've read that some folks prefer the WA6SE to the WA5??


 
   
   
  Are you serious?
  There is no way the WA6SE will compete with the WA5. I Iistened to the WA6SE, WA22 and WA5 all together inthe same room. I went in with my sights in the WA22 and end up ordering the WA5 becuase it just blew away all the others. There is a reason why it was (now the new monoblocks) the top of the line amplifier for dynamic headphones in the Woo line.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

even a WA5-LE with stock tubes is better than a WA6-SE with upgrades?


----------



## Silent One

Without question! Of course, this is my view. Haven't heard the WA5 series but have heard 300B amps, 45 amps & 2A3 amps in the past. While everyone's tastes are different, I'd say those who would prefer the _6 Special Edition_ over the WA5/LE would be down to the dislike of the "300B' signature in general - it's not for everyone.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> _Are you serious?_
> There is no way the WA6SE will compete with the WA5. I Iistened to the WA6SE, WA22 and WA5 all together inthe same room. I went in with my sights in the WA22 and end up ordering the WA5 becuase it just blew away all the others. There is a reason why it was (now the new monoblocks) the top of the line amplifier for dynamic headphones in the Woo line.


 
   
  This was my initial reaction too! And then I quickly realized the numerous examples all around in everyday life and the choices people make and the preferences driving them. Although I don't eat meat... ain't got a dog in the race, some of my friends do not like steak. Perfectly prepared, expertly cooked steak - prefer ground beef. Meat aside, I'm going with the '5!' Soooo much more capable.


----------



## emremusic

Update on my new 6GL7 tubes with the Woo adaptors...
   
  I had reported a high static noise issue in a post few days ago.. 
   
  The noise was coming from my dac. I got new usb a-sync dac and the noise is gone. (My new dac is a dacport lx by the way)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  I love my WA6SE.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





xinque said:


> So I'm guessing the load that's put on the rectifier depends on the volume and audio signal?  These seem to be the only two variables that come to mind.  If that's the case, wouldn't it be more the recording that breaks certain tube combos than the rectifier?


 
   
  Actually neither has any effect at all.  The plate current requirements of the other tubes is what determines this.  The circuit as a whole requires a specific amount of rectified current for the other tubes and this generally does not change in a circuit that is self-biasing like the Woos are.  For example my own amp, as currently configured in its modified state, needs 178mA of current from the rectifier.  80 + 80 for the 5998s and 9+9 for each section of the 6SN7.  Some rectifiers can deliver more current than others.  A 5U4G maxes out at 225mA for example.  Most 274B tubes max out at 160mA or less so using one in my amp would result in either outright death of the tube from excessive inrush current or greatly reduced tube life from being run over its maximum limits.  Some tubes behave better when close to their limits than others too.  You also have to consider how the circuit starts up the tubes.  The 5U4G looks safe on paper for my amp, but it can't handle the initial inrush current during the first few seconds and the plates arc over.  A tube being used like that would probably not last a month.  The Woos are pretty easy on rectifiers in general, but due to some design choices it has been theorized that this may be the reason some of the EML rectifiers were failing early in them, amongst other things.
   
  The reason Woo tells you almost any 5V rectifier is okay is because they bias their tubes very conservatively and thus don't require very much current from the rectifier.  Otherwise you normally could never put a 5Y3 in the same amp that is spec'd for a 5U4G as one has half the current ability of the other.  It is the differences in how each of those tubes behave under the load the circuit presents that produces their variations in sound. 
   
  Keep in mind I'm no expert.  This is my understanding based on what I've learned from others.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> even a WA5-LE with stock tubes is better than a WA6-SE with upgrades?


 
   
  I don't know that for sure because I have never bothered to listen to the WA5-LE with stocks tubes.


----------



## PanamaRed

A little while back I remember you guys talking about isolation. I just got this in the mail today from mapleshade (along with a Samson v2 with 4" shelves for my speaker setup). I love the ridiculousness of having such thick maple (and brass footers) so my next step is to get a rack for the WA22. I haven't had a chance to listen yet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> A little while back I remember you guys talking about isolation. I just got this in the mail today from mapleshade (along with a Samson v2 with 4" shelves for my speaker setup). I love the ridiculousness of having such thick maple (and brass footers) so my next step is to get a rack for the WA22. I haven't had a chance to listen yet.


 
   





 @ 4" thick, lookin' good, PanamaRed! Coincidentally, my second 15x12x4" Maple platform from Mapleshade was dropped by UPS two hours ago. Currently in-session with Anne Akiko Meyers "Autumn In New York." Just a quick preview, as I'd rather listen at night. 
   
  Additionally, today feels like some sort of audio holiday - I received two Italian FIVRE 6SN7 tubes from overseas this morning:
   
  FIVRE 6SN7GT Brown Base
  FIVRE 6SN7GT Black Base (Italian Navy)


----------



## xinque

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently in-session with Anne Akiko Meyers "Autumn In New York." Just a quick preview, as I'd rather listen at night.


 
   
  In session with her AIR: the Bach Album on the WA5 as well !


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> In session with her AIR: the Bach Album on the WA5 as well !


 
   
  Accompanied by a late afternoon and delicate green tea, mind you...




   





 Um, can we trade amps for a session?


----------



## Silent One

Just saw this go up moments ago...
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/607504/fs-woo-audio-wa6se-black-mint-with-tube-options-and-custom-dustcover


----------



## jc9394

xinque said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ditto, but not with a Woo. :mad:


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Just saw this go up moments ago...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/607504/fs-woo-audio-wa6se-black-mint-with-tube-options-and-custom-dustcover




Check out MH WA22 for 1450

http://www.head-fi.org/t/607495/woo-audio-wa22-balanced-headphone-amplifier

MH, did you pick up the LF that went up for sale this morning? If I did not put in my camera purchase, that would be mine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xinque said:


> In session with her AIR: the Bach Album on the WA5 as well !


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ditto, but not with a Woo.


 
   
  Anne Akiko Meyers--
   
  Does this constitute a virtual party?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Check out MH WA22 for 1450
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/607495/woo-audio-wa22-balanced-headphone-amplifier


 
   





 Now he's selling... where was everybody (WA22 owners) when I needed them last summer?!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There wasn't any LF on sale back then...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Check out MH WA22 for 1450
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/607495/woo-audio-wa22-balanced-headphone-amplifier
> MH, did you pick up the LF that went up for sale this morning? If I did not put in my camera purchase, that would be mine.


 
   
   
  I picked up one of the LFs on sale today yes (mwilson's). I felt it would be the better matched amp for my favourite headphones (LCD-3s).  Should be here next week. In case anyone wants a great amp at a great price let me know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now he's selling... where was everybody (WA22 owners) when I needed them last summer?!


 
   
  Funny, looks like we both share the same kind of luck.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Please let me know how they compare, I'm itching to get one too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I picked up one of the LFs on sale today yes (mwilson's). I felt it would be the better matched amp for my favourite headphones (LCD-3s).  Should be here next week. In case anyone wants a great amp at a great price let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 I know. Last June, I set out with a bag full of money knowing there weren't any 22's for sale, so I threw out extra cash. And was told by a few members here to _"Keep looking..." _To be fair, my former Woo mates said so respectfully, but no Champagne!


----------



## Draygonn

macedonianhero said:


> I picked up one of the LFs on sale today yes (mwilson's). I felt it would be the better matched amp for my favourite headphones (LCD-3s).  Should be here next week. In case anyone wants a great amp at a great price let me know.




MH is leaving Wooville?!? Looks like the BHSE deliveries are flooding the market with delicious TOTL used gear. 


In my own audio nirvana the WA2 has taken over the new rig. I love the results so much that I am declaring it my personal endgame and have deleted my head-fi bookmark for the happiness of my wallet.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> MH is leaving Wooville?!? Looks like the BHSE deliveries are flooding the market with delicious TOTL used gear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Deleting bookmarks, are we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It won't work. The moment you need a tube, cable or accessories... you're doomed to repeat. Your Woo ensemble would definitely work for me. Great reading material on display.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I like the setup on a nice small rack next a recliner. That looks like my VTI rack in my sig. Is it?
   
  I wish I could hear a WA2 and HD 800 combo.
   
  Quote: 





draygonn said:


> MH is leaving Wooville?!? Looks like the BHSE deliveries are flooding the market with delicious TOTL used gear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I like the setup on a nice small rack next a recliner. That looks like my VTI rack in my sig. Is it?
> 
> I wish I could hear a WA2 and HD 800 combo.


 
   
  its quite lovely, better then the WA6-SE / HD 800 combo imo


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow never thought i'd see the day MH sells his WA22 lol.


----------



## Peshmerga

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Actually neither has any effect at all.  The plate current requirements of the other tubes is what determines this.  The circuit as a whole requires a specific amount of rectified current for the other tubes and this generally does not change in a circuit that is self-biasing like the Woos are.  For example my own amp, as currently configured in its modified state, needs 178mA of current from the rectifier.  80 + 80 for the 5998s and 9+9 for each section of the 6SN7.  Some rectifiers can deliver more current than others.  A 5U4G maxes out at 225mA for example.  Most 274B tubes max out at 160mA or less so using one in my amp would result in either outright death of the tube from excessive inrush current or greatly reduced tube life from being run over its maximum limits.  Some tubes behave better when close to their limits than others too.  You also have to consider how the circuit starts up the tubes.  The 5U4G looks safe on paper for my amp, but it can't handle the initial inrush current during the first few seconds and the plates arc over.  A tube being used like that would probably not last a month.  The Woos are pretty easy on rectifiers in general, but due to some design choices it has been theorized that this may be the reason some of the EML rectifiers were failing early in them, amongst other things.
> 
> The reason Woo tells you almost any 5V rectifier is okay is because they bias their tubes very conservatively and thus don't require very much current from the rectifier.  Otherwise you normally could never put a 5Y3 in the same amp that is spec'd for a 5U4G as one has half the current ability of the other.  It is the differences in how each of those tubes behave under the load the circuit presents that produces their variations in sound.
> 
> Keep in mind I'm no expert.  This is my understanding based on what I've learned from others.


 
   
  Wow.  Lots of good info. Thanks.  Love knowing all the technical things that goes into a tube amp.
   
  How would I know what my WA6's biased current amount is at?  Can I measure this with a digital multimeter, how so and where do I measure?  Or do I just read off the datasheets for my drive/power tubes and perhaps use some formula to figure it out?
   
  I would ask in the old "Modify your Woo 6" thread, but most of the knowledgeable people in that thread have moved on, away from a Woo6, or stopped posting altogether.  Nearly a 4 year old thread.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> A little while back I remember you guys talking about isolation. I just got this in the mail today from mapleshade (along with a Samson v2 with 4" shelves for my speaker setup). I love the ridiculousness of having such thick maple (and brass footers) so my next step is to get a rack for the WA22. I haven't had a chance to listen yet.


 
   
   
  Just thought I'd slide a pix of my second Maple platform in after hours. So tight was desk space on top, only a half inch remains on either side of the desk.
   




   




   
   
  Using my imagination, I can see the twin chassis WA5 (_or 6 Special Edition... again_) having a dedicated platform for both the power supply & amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am planning.


----------



## Icenine2

J,
   
  I used to have the WA22 and have owned the Liquid Fire since the first shipment the beginning of August.  You can read my impression in the LF thread.  It is really an incredible amp.
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please let me know how they compare, I'm itching to get one too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> J,
> 
> I used to have the WA22 and have owned the Liquid Fire since the first shipment the beginning of August.  You can read my impression in the LF thread.  It is really an incredible amp.


 
   
  thanks, searching now.


----------



## musicman59

And the ones from the second run are even better since there was a tweek or change in the power supply so the bass improved.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





peshmerga said:


> Wow.  Lots of good info. Thanks.  Love knowing all the technical things that goes into a tube amp.
> 
> How would I know what my WA6's biased current amount is at?  Can I measure this with a digital multimeter, how so and where do I measure?  Or do I just read off the datasheets for my drive/power tubes and perhaps use some formula to figure it out?
> 
> I would ask in the old "Modify your Woo 6" thread, but most of the knowledgeable people in that thread have moved on, away from a Woo6, or stopped posting altogether.  Nearly a 4 year old thread.


 
   
  I doubt Woo Audio would provide these particular numbers.  Since the 5Y3 is on the safe tube list I think it's safe to say the total current needs wouldn't be much over 100mA but I don't know the specific numbers.  For the WA6 in particular it is probably considerably lower than that even.  You could measure the numbers but it requires strong knowledge of the circuit design and knowing where the measure, and I myself don't know enough about it to offer any help on that front.  Given the high working voltages inside a tube amp I wouldn't attempt such a thing unless you are 100% confident of what you are doing otherwise it could be dangerous.  More than just knock you on your butt dangerous too.
   
  Learning tube circuit design seems to be a sort of dark art these days.  You almost have to know somebody who has been around long enough to have worked in the industry when tubes were still commonplace such as in the 60's and 70's to really find the right expertise on the subject.  I'd love to learn more myself but the resources are so limited.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> And the ones from the second run are even better since there was a tweek or change in the power supply so the bass improved.


 
   
  what are the serial starts at on the second batch?


----------



## Draygonn

silent one said:


> Deleting bookmarks, are we? :evil:  It won't work.


Other than getting banned it's my wallets only defense :wink_face:



sid-fi said:


> I like the setup on a nice small rack next a recliner. That looks like my VTI rack in my sig. Is it?



Yes, its the VTI rack and Poang combo  I'm using the two 7" shelves as a TV stand.


----------



## 188479

Hi all:
Well it looks like I will be ordering my WA6SE next week...so one final question. I was thinking of getting a set of small powered speakers for the 5% of the time I don't use headphones. Should I get the loop out option and hook them up RCA to RCA via loop out or just get a 1/4 to RCA cable and run the speakers from the headphone out. Any benefit to doing it one way or the other?

Kevin


----------



## shipsupt

188479 said:


> Hi all:
> Well it looks like I will be ordering my WA6SE next week...so one final question. I was thinking of getting a set of small powered speakers for the 5% of the time I don't use headphones. Should I get the loop out option and hook them up RCA to RCA via loop out or just get a 1/4 to RCA cable and run the speakers from the headphone out. Any benefit to doing it one way or the other?
> 
> Kevin




There is no loop out on a 6SE, only two inputs.

I'm not sure there is any benefit in running powered speakers from the 6SE, why not connect to your source?


----------



## 188479

Loop out is an extra cost option on the 6se. Sure I could just connect the source...but I liked the idea of being able to switch sources with the woo and not have to unplug multiple things to use speakers!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> MH is leaving Wooville?!? Looks like the BHSE deliveries are flooding the market with delicious TOTL used gear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I may be selling my WA22, but I do plan to continue following this thread...its filled with such nice people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow never thought i'd see the day MH sells his WA22 lol.


 
   
  Me neither. If anyone is interested, I just listed a plethora of my WA22 tubes this evening.
   
  Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> J,
> 
> I used to have the WA22 and have owned the Liquid Fire since the first shipment the beginning of August. * You can read my impression in the LF thread.  It is really an incredible amp.*


 
   
  And you are one of the people I blame for me leaving Wooville.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> And you are one of the people I blame for me leaving Wooville.


 
   
  That'e the great thing about Wooville though, the gates are always open. I'll be a card carrying member again as soon as my WA5 shows up in about a week.
   
  It's going to be a real burden comparing the WA5 and LF and deducing their relative strengths and weaknesses. Once I get through the horrors of life with the pair, I will report back in the appropriate threads. Perhaps there will be some foreign exchange program between Wooville and Cavalliland.
   
  Though I really need to try out an LCD3 on them, MH. Perhaps we could work something out


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> That'e the great thing about Wooville though, the gates are always open. I'll be a card carrying member again as soon as my WA5 shows up in about a week.
> 
> It's going to be a real burden comparing the WA5 and LF and deducing their relative strengths and weaknesses. Once I get through the horrors of life with the pair, I will report back in the appropriate threads. Perhaps there will be some foreign exchange program between Wooville and Cavalliland.
> 
> Though I really need to try out an LCD3 on them, MH. Perhaps we could work something out


 
   

 Sounds like a great comparison...can't wait to hear your thoughts.
   
  You're in the GTA right? Maybe a mini-meet when you get your WA5?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> You're in the GTA right? Maybe a mini-meet when you get your WA5?


 
   
  Yup, downtown and exactly what I was alluding to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll pm you once I've had it for a week or so... being 70lbs there may be no choice but to have me host it.
   
  Do you have any 4 pin XLRs for the Audeze? (the WA22 would have accepted that, and I'm curious to try the 'K1000' jack on the WA5)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Yup, downtown and exactly what I was alluding to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 I'm not too far then. I'm using the Silver Dragon V3....4pin XLR w/ a balanced to SE adapter. so we should be good with the K1000 jack. Since you'll have the WA5 and LF (I won't need to bring my LF), but I"ve got a few other cans and I could bring my GS-1?


----------



## obzilla

PM'ed MH.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry don't know that buy I am almost sure they were produced this year.


----------



## Sid-Fi

MH, have you had a chance to compare your silver dragon v3 to any other cables? I am using it for my balanced headphone cable, and also had XLR interconnects made using the same cable. The only direct comparison I have been able to do so far has been comparing to Jenna Labs ultrawire.
   
  I found the silver dragon 3 to sound much precise with better resolution and a more lively and involving sound in general. The Jenna Labs cable sounded a little loose, muddy, and unfocused in comparison. I'm curious how it stacks up in general with other options if you have been through more cables than I have.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I'm not too far then. I'm using the Silver Dragon V3....4pin XLR w/ a balanced to SE adapter. so we should be good with the K1000 jack. Since you'll have the WA5 and LF (I won't need to bring my LF), but I"ve got a few other cans and I could bring my GS-1?


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'm sure glad to have my WA22 and recliner to keep me company through about 120 pages of Law reading this weekend...


----------



## jc9394

sid-fi said:


> MH, have you had a chance to compare your silver dragon v3 to any other cables? I am using it for my balanced headphone cable, and also had XLR interconnects made using the same cable. The only direct comparison I have been able to do so far has been comparing to Jenna Labs ultrawire.
> 
> I found the silver dragon 3 to sound much precise with better resolution and a more lively and involving sound in general. The Jenna Labs cable sounded a little loose, muddy, and unfocused in comparison. I'm curious how it stacks up in general with other options if you have been through more cables than I have.
> 
> ...




I tried Silver Dragon, TWag, and Q Audio with my LCD-2. I found that I like the Q the most.


----------



## Pudu

+3 on the Q

I haven't had others except stock to compare to, but the ergonomics of the Q are superb. When I sold the LCDs I kept the Q  . 

And it comes with some of the best customer service I've come across.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





pudu said:


> +3 on the Q
> I haven't have others except stock to compare to, but the ergonomics of the Q are superb. When I sold the LCDs I kept the Q
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +4
   
  Steve Eddy is one of the nicest guy's I've come across on the site.


----------



## DeStRuCtEd

A little bit of nighttime glow from the WA2.


----------



## Silent One

Well, that's an elegant statement.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my wa2 never looks that cool


----------



## DeStRuCtEd

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my wa2 never looks that cool


 
   
  It would look cooler if I could actually find a pair of Tung-Sol 5998's. :]


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my wa2 never looks that cool


 
   
  It does on a tripod with the lights out at about f2.8


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> MH, have you had a chance to compare your silver dragon v3 to any other cables? I am using it for my balanced headphone cable, and also had XLR interconnects made using the same cable. The only direct comparison I have been able to do so far has been comparing to Jenna Labs ultrawire.
> 
> I found the silver dragon 3 to sound much precise with better resolution and a more lively and involving sound in general. The Jenna Labs cable sounded a little loose, muddy, and unfocused in comparison. I'm curious how it stacks up in general with other options if you have been through more cables than I have.


 
   
  I've heard the old Canare stock LCD-2 cable, the new ADZ cable, the Q Audio and Blue Dragon cables....I'm sticking with the Silver Dragon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just works very well with my LCD-3s.
   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> *I'm sure glad to have my WA22 and recliner to keep me company* through about 120 pages of Law reading this weekend...


 
   
  If you're interested in any tubes for that great amp....I've got a bunch for sale.


----------



## Sid-Fi

PM sent for your Sophia Princess 274B
   
  Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> I've heard the old Canare stock LCD-2 cable, the new ADZ cable, the Q Audio and Blue Dragon cables....I'm sticking with the Silver Dragon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Feeling a bit fancy tonight,in session with WA22 with LCD-2 and drinking champagne and strawberry.


----------



## xinque

WA5 + T1 + Canton ginger + Daiqing Tana for me..


----------



## Pudu

jc9394 said:


> Feeling a bit fancy tonight,in session with WA22 with LCD-2 and drinking champagne and strawberry.




Ooh la la! 

But what music are you matching to that? A little Gilbert and Sullivan? Some Cole Porter?


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1 but sub in freshly squeezed lemonade hehe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Feeling a bit fancy tonight,in session with WA22 with LCD-2 and drinking champagne and strawberry.


----------



## jc9394

sid-fi said:


> +1 but sub in freshly squeezed lemonade hehe
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I will spice it up.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I just broke my Mullard GZ34 rectifier within two weeks of having it. Seemed like it was lined up like every other time, but when pushing it in the middle black plastic piece snapped off and got stuck in the WA22. Luckily it pulled right out and the amp seems fine. It hurts being such a newbie to tubes. Wonder how many a head-fi'er have done that before...
   
  I guess good timing that I bought MH's Princess 274B tonight at least.


----------



## Xcalibur255

You didn't hurt the tube, the center piece is just a guide post to ensure the tube is inserted correctly.  Tube bases are old and can be brittle.  The correct pins need to be in their respective socket positions.  The tube is perfectly usable with the guide pin broken, it's just part of a plastic base glued onto the glass, but you need to be extra careful from now on to make sure you are inserting it with the correct pin alignment.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Good to know, thank you for sharing. How can I tell if the sockets are aligned right. Is there only one orientation for which they can be aligned with sockets? Haven't paid attention since I always focused on the guide post.
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> You didn't hurt the tube, the center piece is just a guide post to ensure the tube is inserted correctly.  Tube bases are old and can be brittle.  The correct pins need to be in their respective socket positions.  The tube is perfectly usable with the guide pin broken, it's just part of a plastic base glued onto the glass, but you need to be extra careful from now on to make sure you are inserting it with the correct pin alignment.


----------



## Lord Soth

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Good to know, thank you for sharing. How can I tell if the sockets are aligned right. Is there only one orientation for which they can be aligned with sockets? Haven't paid attention since I always focused on the guide post.


 
   
  For the GZ34, I'd suggest that you download the datasheet over here.
   
http://www.hifitubes.nl/weblog/index.php/philips-gz34-datasheet/
   
  The diagram "Base Octal" shows you where the guiding pin should be located.
   
  Now that you know which is the correct direction of the guide pin, you can follow the instructions over here.
   
http://www.eurotubes.com/eurotubes-FAQ-Frequently-Asked-Questions-Tone-glow-microphonic-biasing.htm#14.1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Feeling a bit fancy tonight,in session with WA22 with LCD-2 and drinking champagne and strawberry.


 
   





 We really are brothers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Feeling a bit fancy tonight,in session with WA22 with LCD-2 and drinking champagne and strawberry.


 
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> Ooh la la!
> But what music are you matching to that? A little *Gilbert* and Sullivan? Some Cole Porter?


 
   
  If I'm setting sail into the night with the WA22-Champagne-Strawberry combo, then give me an "o" for Gilberto. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, the feather-light, airy and decay trailing deep into the background vocals of Astrud Gilberto.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I just broke my Mullard GZ34 rectifier within two weeks of having it. Seemed like it was lined up like every other time, but when pushing it in the middle black plastic piece snapped off and got stuck in the WA22. Luckily it pulled right out and the amp seems fine. It hurts being such a newbie to tubes. Wonder how many a head-fi'er have done that before...
> 
> I guess good timing that I bought MH's Princess 274B tonight at least.


 
   
  That happened to me with one of my rectifiers but I just superglued the stem back to the tube with no problem.


----------



## jamato8

You can get a plastic piece with a guide pin that slips over the 8 pins. They have been around for a long time as the guide pin isn't all that had to break. I have a GZ34 metal base I picked up for 20 dollars, some time back. but for that I just made a mark on the base for the correct orientation. No big deal really.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I'm setting sail into the night with the WA22-Champagne-Strawberry combo, then give me an "o" for Gilberto.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  not that sophisticated, just j-pop and canto-pop.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We really are brothers.


 
   
  oh yeah, too bad we are 3000 miles apart.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> not that sophisticated, just j-pop and canto-pop.


 
   
  Still enjoyable... as proven by Karen Mok emanating from my Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> oh yeah, too bad we are 3000 miles apart.


 
   
  As long as you don't bring up the infamous "Tuck Rule" at the dinner table next month.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> You can get a plastic piece with a guide pin that slips over the 8 pins. They have been around for a long time as the guide pin isn't all that had to break. I have a GZ34 metal base I picked up for 20 dollars, some time back. but for that I just made a mark on the base for the correct orientation. No big deal really.


 
   
   Any more info/link for this please?
   
  I am too guilty of breaking guide pins during pin cleaning etc.


----------



## nihaz

Quote: 





destructed said:


> A little bit of nighttime glow from the WA2.


 
   






 Am loving this shot... any chance for a link to a higher resolution version for use with my 1080 computer screen?


----------



## Silent One

Click on the photo and you'll find original resolution on Flickr @ 1024x683. Great shot, isn't it?! Ohhhhh, he came through for you in a BIG way! 1920 and change!


----------



## hodgjy

Well, my little Woo 3 is out of timeout.  She has been brought to the office.  Since she has that static/hum, she is no longer good enough for home use.  But, since my office is loud with hums of its own, she is fine for office use.  Plus, I no longer feel ashamed to use the lineout on my laptop in fear of background noise.  It's a competent little office rig and will serve me well when things get loud or stressful.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, my little Woo 3 is out of timeout.  She has been brought to the office.  Since she has that static/hum, she is no longer good enough for home use.  But, since my office is loud with hums of its own, she is fine for office use.  Plus, I no longer feel ashamed to use the lineout on my laptop in fear of background noise.  It's a competent little office rig and will serve me well when things get loud or stressful.


 
   

 take a look at this dac cable, I have one in the office and love it.
   
  http://www.headstage.com/USB-DAC-Cable:::1010.html?XTCsid=0d2c009bbaf04d674404789590bb493a


----------



## Pudu

hodgjy said:


> Well, my little Woo 3 is out of timeout.  She has been brought to the office.  Since she has that static/hum, she is no longer good enough for home use.  But, since my office is loud with hums of its own, she is fine for office use.  Plus, I no longer feel ashamed to use the lineout on my laptop in fear of background noise.  It's a competent little office rig and will serve me well when things get loud or stressful.





Have you isolated the hum to your woo? I only ask because 1) I can't keep up with this most prodigious of threads and haven't been reading every page, and 2) I had background hum from my source which was painfully obvious on my woo but unnoticeable at listening levels on a hybrid amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Well, my little Woo 3 is out of timeout.  She has been brought to the office.  Since she has that static/hum, she is no longer good enough for home use.  But, since my office is loud with hums of its own, she is fine for office use.  Plus, I no longer feel ashamed to use the lineout on my laptop in fear of background noise.  It's a competent little office rig and will serve me well when things get loud or stressful.


 
   
  I could not help but feel for her. I'm ecstatic about her new beginnings...


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> ...Yes, the feather-light, airy and decay trailing deep into the background vocals of Astrud Gilberto.





Just returned from the airport run at the end of a family visit. Time to decompress with a quiet espresso, and Astrud's man João with his buddies Herbie and Antonio. Alas, I've lent the wootwo to a local Headfier to try out with his T1 in an effort to spread the joy. So, it's coming straight out of the DX. 

Still, it's lovely, peaceful and relaxing.


----------



## hodgjy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> take a look at this dac cable, I have one in the office and love it.
> 
> http://www.headstage.com/USB-DAC-Cable:::1010.html?XTCsid=0d2c009bbaf04d674404789590bb493a


 
   
  I may look at that.  Seems like a good price.  I'm content for now using the line out, but I may add that little dac in the future.
   
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> Have you isolated the hum to your woo? I only ask because 1) I can't keep up with this most prodigious of threads and haven't been reading every page, and 2) I had background hum from my source which was painfully obvious on my woo but unnoticeable at listening levels on a hybrid amp.


 
   
  I have not isolated the hum.  I've tried it on different outlets and in different buildings.  I've tried every tube I own.  The sound is exactly the same.  Someday, I may send it in for repair.  But, for now, since my office is very loud, I cannot hear this hiss because it is completely drowned out.  I'm content for now.


----------



## hodgjy

She has brought me musical enjoyment as well as starting many pleasant conversations this morning.  Several coworkers got an audition and finally heard music "as it should be."
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I could not help but feel for her. I'm ecstatic about her new beginnings...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Just returned from the airport run at the end of a family visit. Time to decompress with a quiet espresso, and Astrud's man João with his buddies Herbie and Antonio. Alas, I've lent the wootwo to a local Headfier to try out with his T1 in an effort to spread the joy. So, it's coming straight out of the DX.
> Still, it's lovely, peaceful and relaxing.


 
   





 Wise decision on both counts - to share; music selection.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> She has brought me musical enjoyment as well as starting many pleasant conversations this morning.  Several coworkers got an audition and finally heard music "as it should be."


 
   
  Will await new pix...


----------



## DeStRuCtEd

Quote: 





nihaz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Sure, no problem. I uploaded two hi-res versions to the gallery here: http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/tcjqmbcs9xx6uu8n4qyhgqn43gpjeslx Thanks :]


----------



## MacedonianHero

Well gentlemen (and ladies), I shipped off my WA22 to its new owner today. Kinda sad to see this great amp go. It's served me very well for the past year. On a brighter note, my LF is due mid-week.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well gentlemen (and ladies), I shipped off my WA22 to its new owner today. Kinda sad to see this great amp go. It's served me very well for the past year. On a brighter note, my LF is due mid-week.


 
   
  Wow. No amp! I would have made the guy wait a couple days


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Wow. No amp! I would have made the guy wait a couple days


 
   

 I've got my GS-1 w/DACT attenuator right here beside me. It drives all of my cans incredibly well...from my LCD-3s to my Westone 4s (and everything else in between).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I've got my GS-1 w/DACT attenuator right here beside me. It drives all of my cans incredibly well...from my LCD-3s to my Westone 4s (and everything else in between).


 
   
  but but, it does not have the tube glow.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> but but, it does not have the tube glow.


 
   
  LoL, I was just about to write that post. You are correct, no tube glow to keep me warm.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.
   
  By the way, how long have you been down here in AZ? I have been in a bunch of the Ibasso threads and don't remember you living down here. Just curious.
   
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> You can get a plastic piece with a guide pin that slips over the 8 pins. They have been around for a long time as the guide pin isn't all that had to break. I have a GZ34 metal base I picked up for 20 dollars, some time back. but for that I just made a mark on the base for the correct orientation. No big deal really.


----------



## Sid-Fi

+ 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> but but, it does not have the tube glow.


----------



## Sid-Fi

So silent one, what's the verdict on now having maple isolation across the board now that it has been a few days?


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





destructed said:


> Sure, no problem. I uploaded two hi-res versions to the gallery here: http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/tcjqmbcs9xx6uu8n4qyhgqn43gpjeslx Thanks :]


 
   
  Nice glow


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> So silent one, what's the verdict on now having maple isolation across the board now that it has been a few days?


 
   
  We got side tracked. Received two different FIVRE 6SN7GT tubes - Brown base; Black base the same afternoon as the second Maple platform. No critical listening done yet. But sticking to my earlier impression, the middle got kicked wide open. But I did make a discovery - both the 2" Maple block and the spikes aren't right for this DAC. Returned to stocking feet with each of the three components. Then Tri-Absorbers and lastly spikes and combinations in between. At each turn, the DAC returned the poorest impressions and it is affected by the changes. 
   
  I'm looking to get Brass footers next and try them under the server, DAC and amp (can only afford one set in the BIG size at this time). So, stay tuned! But yes, I'm on track with positive results and on the verge of getting even better.


----------



## nihaz

Quote: 





destructed said:


> Sure, no problem. I uploaded two hi-res versions to the gallery here: http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/tcjqmbcs9xx6uu8n4qyhgqn43gpjeslx Thanks :]


 
   

 You sir, are awesome 
   
  Will be using this as my default for some time to come!
   
  Also, I agree with all above posts with regards to tube glow... it certainly makes it that much more special listening to music whilst enjoying the warm glow of tubes!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We got side tracked. Received two different FIVRE 6SN7GT tubes - Brown base; Black base the same afternoon as the second Maple platform. No critical listening done yet. But sticking to my earlier impression, the middle got kicked wide open. But I did make a discovery - both the 2" Maple block and the spikes aren't right for this DAC. Returned to stocking feet with each of the three components. Then Tri-Absorbers and lastly spikes and combinations in between. At each turn, the DAC returned the poorest impressions and it is affected by the changes.
> 
> I'm looking to get Brass footers next and try them under the server, DAC and amp (can only afford one set in the BIG size at this time). So, stay tuned! But yes, I'm on track with positive results and on the verge of getting even better.


 
   

 SO, you really have golden ears.  I can hardly tell the difference between difference cables.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> SO, you really have golden ears.  I can hardly tell the difference between difference cables.


 
   
  I wish. I only hear the things I do because I am silent... while listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Seriously, this is one of those changes that is immediately apparent. Quick & dirty - moving your sources/amps to different surfaces, from wood, glass, granite and other surfaces will change the sound. And how a surface is housed or supported will matter too. For better or worse. Add in the swapping of footers and the number of changes in sound is all over the map.
   
  That's why it's best to view this tweak as "tuning."


----------



## Sid-Fi

Well tonight is the very last class of my two year full-time evening academic program. Cheers to a helluva lot more listening time in my future!


----------



## Silent One

To Sid-Fi & Hi-Fi!


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'll drink to that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> To Sid-Fi & Hi-Fi!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im done with school this thursday too!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im done with school this thursday too!!!


 
   




  Let's get back to audio, shall we? After you knock 'em out Thursday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Go get 'em!!!_


----------



## Sid-Fi

Congratulations!
   
  Back to audio as Silent One mentioned, I'm getting ready to not go to work and have a lazy morning with my WA22. I hope I can survive like this until I go back to work next Monday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im done with school this thursday too!!!


----------



## Sid-Fi

I really hope no one reads my post above from work this morning.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Took me a few days to catch up, this thread's been _busy_. We have some Woos listed, _and sold!_
   
   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I just broke my Mullard GZ34 rectifier within two weeks of having it. Seemed like it was lined up like every other time, but when pushing it in the middle black plastic piece snapped off and got stuck in the WA22. Luckily it pulled right out and the amp seems fine. It hurts being such a newbie to tubes. Wonder how many a head-fi'er have done that before...
> 
> I guess good timing that I bought MH's Princess 274B tonight at least.


 
   
  I did that, to a big Shuguang 274B. Is there any evidence of a pin guide left at all? That makes things easiest, just mark it on the side.
   
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the better version for connecting to a Woo, it has RCAs instead of the miniplug. It's the same DAC cable otherwise, I have been meaning to list it for sale so PM me if you're interested.
   
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well gentlemen (and ladies), I shipped off my WA22 to its new owner today. Kinda sad to see this great amp go. It's served me very well for the past year. On a brighter note, my LF is due mid-week.


 
   
  You're firmly in the grip of your LCD-3 now, stay in touch!
   
  Missed your tube sale too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Would have love to have grabbed a Princess off of you.
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I _hear ya! _What'd you say?


----------



## roadster-s

Just traded-in my one month old Eastern Electric DAC Plus for a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. Really looking forward to having volume control for my WA6SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sitting 12 feet away from the amp, this will be much more practical for me. With an HT bypass input, I'll also be able to drive my monoblocks directly in fully balanced configuration.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Sweet. Please share impressions on how it compares to the EE Plus. Both DACs are on my radar for down the road.
  Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Just traded-in my one month old Eastern Electric DAC Plus for a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. Really looking forward to having volume control for my WA6SE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Just traded-in my one month old Eastern Electric DAC Plus for a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. Looking forward to having volume control for my WA6SE now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I still can't believe how neatly your roadster fits inside the listening room! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great move to gain control over the Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I really hope no one reads my post above from work this morning.


 
   





 Actually, let's hope someone does. Creating allies inside the workplace can take you far. _Audio as diplomacy works for me._


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> You're firmly in the grip of your LCD-3 now, stay in touch!
> 
> Missed your tube sale too
> 
> ...


 
   
  As great as the WA22 was with my LCD-3s, they have shown me that they've been holding back some when I plugged them into the LF. Sorry Vince about not being able to work out a deal. Next time, just don't take a few days off.


----------



## Earrat

Just ordered some new tubes, can't wait for them to arrive.
   
  Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7's
  Tung-Sol 6DE7's
  Philco 6DE7's
  RCA 6FD7's 
  Tung-Sol 6FD7's (can't find any info on these, but the person says they are tung-sol)?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





earrat said:


> Just ordered some new tubes, can't wait for them to arrive.
> 
> Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7's
> Tung-Sol 6DE7's
> ...


 
  looking forward to your impressions on those driver tubes! Haven't played around with driver tubes in a while..


----------



## Earrat

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> looking forward to your impressions on those driver tubes! Haven't played around with driver tubes in a while..


 
  For sure man, I am looking forward as well . Did Mullard make a 6DE7 tube? The one I'm looking at comes in a blue box, says Mullard, and has the IEC logo on the box.


----------



## jc9394

earrat said:


> Just ordered some new tubes, can't wait for them to arrive.
> 
> Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7's
> Tung-Sol 6DE7's
> ...




Love the Sylvania, it drives my HD600 very well especially use it with Mullard GZ34.


----------



## grokit

That GZ34 is quite the little rectifier. Listening to it now with the GEC power tubes. Good times.


----------



## Icenine2

Roadster-s,
   
  You will love the DAC2.  I've had mine a while and it is just wonderful.
   
  Saw your Alpina avatar.  I used to own a 1972 2002 with a few Alpina parts!  That car was lots of fun!
  Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Just traded-in my one month old Eastern Electric DAC Plus for a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. Really looking forward to having volume control for my WA6SE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## driver 8

How long does it usually take Woo Audio to ship an order?  I ordered a WA22 with tube upgrades last Tuesday and a dual headphone stand 3 days before that.  They have yet to ship either and it's starting to aggravate me.


----------



## hodgjy

Woo amps are built to order.  It could take 4-6 weeks before an amp ships.  This should have been made clear during the ordering process.
  Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> How long does it usually take Woo Audio to ship an order?  I ordered a WA22 with tube upgrades last Tuesday and a dual headphone stand 3 days before that.  They have yet to ship either and it's starting to aggravate me.


----------



## driver 8

Bah, I don't recall that 
   
  I was pretty darn out of it when I ordered, though.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Bah, I don't recall that
> 
> I was pretty darn out of it when I ordered, though.


 
   
  Did you ever correspond with Jack prior to placing the order, or did you just place it online?
  Even so, the FAQ states a normal minimum of 1-2 weeks, and that is presumably for the smaller simpler amps. The WA22 is much bigger and more complex than many other models. I would guess a month, but email Jack to find out.
   
   
   


> _7. Is there any unit available for immediate delivery?Typically, we do not build amplifier to stock but build per order.Build time is normally within 1 to 2 weeks. However, delivery date can be delayed due to outstanding orders._


----------



## mwilson

I'm happy to rejoin the Woo club with a WEE, which should be delivered tomorrow. I used to own a WA22, and from all the amps I've auditioned or owned it was the most euphonic sounding. I really appreciate Woo Audio's simply elegant design and precision milling. And most of their stuff qualifies as throwing projectiles, should one's life depend upon it.


----------



## Silent One

After placing my order and thanked for doing so, I was informed to expect 4-6 weeks delivery, as hodgjy pointed out. I'm unable to recall if this was at checkout or a via email confirm. However, WooAudio does expedite orders but will charge a fee. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And rightfully so.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





mwilson said:


> And most of their stuff qualifies as throwing projectiles, should one's life depend upon it.


 
  +1


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





mwilson said:


> And most of their stuff qualifies as throwing projectiles, should one's life depend upon it.


 
   
  Currently I only have the headphone stand (T-style) and I KNOW I could end another man's life with it.


----------



## xinque

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Currently I only have the headphone stand (T-style) and I KNOW I could end another man's life with it.


 
   
  Lol, same thought occurred to me when I got the single headphone stand too.  Bar on top where the headphone sits makes for a good grip, plus the corners on the base are fairly sharp.  Wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a swing with that..


----------



## grokit

The best of all WA2/WA22 power tubes?



At $695 shipped I'll probably never know 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-MATCHED-PAIR-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-TYPE-5998-421-A-421A-POWER-TUBES-526-/290704725452?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43af5a15cc


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The best of all WA2/WA22 power tubes?
> 
> At $695 shipped I'll probably never know
> 
> ...


 
  Those look so cheap compared to these...... and I want them for my WA5-LE
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-NOS-Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-NIB-and-tested-/251034197911?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a72cddf97#ht_924wt_1054


----------



## grokit

You got me there *musicman59*!


----------



## Silent One

Those are some mighty rich refreshments you all are discussing right there. For me to sit down with those, I'd have to fall back to Lipton bags & paper cups for a year... the horror!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hate seeing pics of those tubes when i'm stuck with sylvania 7236


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hate seeing pics of those tubes when i'm stuck with sylvania 7236


 
   
  In the shadow of your excitement from getting out today, I just played "Sweet Home Chicago" - The Blues Brothers...


----------



## keph

waiting for my stello DA220 and U3 to arrive and then my WA6SE will be all good...cant wait..
   
  i just got some full music 274B meshed plate and some Tung-Sol 5U4G in Hong Kong to play with..
   
  will post some pics later and will let you all see Hong Kong Tube HEAVEN...


----------



## minimus

What I like about Woo....
   
  I own both a Woo WA22 and an Eddie Current Super 7.  I have owned the Woo 22 for quite a while now and until recently was not all that thrilled by it.  Seemed to be immune to 6SN7 tube rolling.  I even bought some Mullard CV181s.  The sound was always about the same.  Very detailed, but honestly a bit dry...reminded me of the Luxman P1-u I used to own. What really makes the WA22 sing is the 6F8G tube (with adaptors). I am using RCAs and Tung Sols and, for whatever reason, those tubes just improve the liquidity of the amp in a big way.  Mind you, the Woo is not a lush sounding tube amp, but it now sounds a lot more inviting and enveloping than with any 6SN7s I tried with it.
   
  Now, the Super 7 is a different animal.  From the get-go, it has a more enveloping sound than the Woo.  The music just flows so invitingly.  Although Eddie Current got a reputation for "hard" sounding amps when the Zana Deux was king of the mat, that is not my impression.  The Super 7 is about as close as I have heard to my Singlepower Extreme, a stellar sounding amp, regardless of all the build quality issues.  The mid-range is rich, warm, and detailed.  And it also has better bass than the Woo, which presents fast bass, but not the same level of detail as the Super 7.  Overall, the Super 7 sounds more like a SET amp...it presents a very deep soundstage, with lots of detail.  The Woo sounds more like my Pass Labs amp. The only weakness of the Super 7 is that with very low impedance headphones (IEMs like the JH16s), I hear a bit of tube hiss, not noticeable when music is playing.  But the Woo is completely quiet with every headphone I have used with it.
   
  I would say the Super 7 outperforms the WA22 in terms of sound quality.  Craig Uthus deserves his stellar reputation.  Turning out the first batch of Super 7s for $1350 was an incredible achievement. 
   
  But one reason I probably will never sell the WA22 is its fantastic build quality.  I don't expect to ever have to return it for repairs.  The Super 7 also has good build quality, but has a slightly more DIY feel to it than the Woo.  I have learned the hard way, from my trail of tears owning a SInglepower Extreme, that build quality and reliablity should be cherished.  The Woo just has the feel of an amp that will last forever.  For that, Woo Audio deserves a tremendous amount of credit. 
   
  And now that the Super 7 retails for the same price as the Woo 22, it is a closer call between the two amps.  In all honesty, a complete toss up that depends on what type of presentation you prefer.  If you like rich-sounding tube amps, or use medium or high impedance headphones (anything above 30 ohms), the Super 7 will sound better. 
   
  If you like a cleaner, faster presentation, something closer to solid state with only hints of tube warmth, if you are driving very low impedance headphones (Grados or custom iEM's), and really want an amp that is built like a Sherman tank, then the Woo 22 will do the trick.


----------



## Silent One

keph, looking forward to it!


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Dose anyone know a place too buy these tubes? TS5998 power, Mullard CV2492 driver and Telefunken EZ80 rectifier


----------



## keph

http://www.wiwitubes.com/en/cform.php contact them..they are based in Hong Kong and will do international shipping. They have loads of 5998s and other sort of tubes just name them and they will have it..i just got some 5U4G and 274B from them.ill post photos of the shop later..
  Quote: 





sonic boom said:


> Dose anyone know a place too buy these tubes? TS5998 power, Mullard CV2492 driver and Telefunken EZ80 rectifier


----------



## Silent One

This is great news! Can't have enough good tube sources...
   
   
  Update:  The horse is out of the barn... _and down the street!_ Just had an email exchange with WiWi Tubes and they sold out all stock of United Electronics USAF/JAN-596 rectifiers in April. Word must have gotten out from this thread.


----------



## keph

Will do..!!!
   
  can anyone recommend me a good driver tubes for the WA6SE..?i got the stock Sylvania 6EW7... 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> keph, looking forward to it!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i got raytheon 6ew7 and love them very much. under 20 bucks too.
   
  i am interested in trying out other tubes as well


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





keph said:


> Will do..!!!
> 
> can anyone recommend me a good driver tubes for the WA6SE..?i got the stock Sylvania 6EW7...


 
  I'm using some GE 6EW7s, they actually sound pretty similar to the stock Raytheon tubes that came with my 6SE. I enjoyed the 6FD7s jack was selling (because of their deep bass and smooth treble), but they have higher gain and on my D7000s and Signature Pros they added quite a bit of background noise so I moved back to the 6EW7s. I noticed that the FD7s were much quieter with the LCD2s and HE500s, so if you are using more power hungry headphones the FD7s are worth looking into (also relatively inexpensive).


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I'm using some GE 6EW7s, they actually sound pretty similar to the stock Raytheon tubes that came with my 6SE. I enjoyed the 6FD7s jack was selling (because of their deep bass and smooth treble), but they have higher gain and on my D7000s and Signature Pros they added quite a bit of background noise so I moved back to the 6EW7s. I noticed that the FD7s were much quieter with the LCD2s and HE500s, so if you are using more power hungry headphones the FD7s are worth looking into (also relatively inexpensive).


 
   
  THX..yep im using the LCD-2 and the HE-500..i will find the 6FD7s asap..btw mine is shipped just this year so it means i can use the 6FD7 am i right??


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





keph said:


> THX..yep im using the LCD-2 and the HE-500..i will find the 6FD7s asap..btw mine is shipped just this year so it means i can use the 6FD7 am i right??


 
  I believe so, I got mine this year as well.. just a simple swap no adaptor needed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Will do..!!!
> 
> can anyone recommend me a good driver tubes for the WA6SE..?i got the stock Sylvania 6EW7...


 
   
  Good to see you're getting good help from the membership! Want to thank you for the link to wiwitubes as well. Lorenz Tang has been very patient and willing to work with me overnight as a first time customer.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good to see you're getting good help from the membership! Want to thank you for the link to wiwitubes as well. Lorenz Tang has been very patient and willing to work with me overnight as a first time customer.


 
  Well im now proud to be a Woo Audio member and a proud Woo Audio owner...!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  can't wait for my Stello DA220 to arrive on monday...


----------



## pyramid6

I need help with my WA22.
   
  My amp still hums.  I can hear it in my D7000 and on the outside of the amp.  I have tried 10 different power tubes.  3 rectifiers and a couple of drivers.  I have tried Herby tube rings, isolation platform and a power conditioner.  No matter what I do I still hear noise.  I just got a pair of 7236 and I think the power tubes are quieter, but the amp still hums.  I can hear the humming on the outside of the amp, and I think it is translating into the headphones.  I might be able to get a different rectifier, I had one that did not make the amp hum as much, but I sold it.
   
  Should I send it in the Woo and have it fixed?  I actually really like it now that I have the WDS-1 and can turn the volume down.  If I cannot get rid of the humming, I'm going to have to sell it, but I don't think I can sell it the way it is now.  I wouldn't want to buy it.
   
  I had noise problems, although not as bad when I had the T1.  I know the D7000 is sensitive, but I think this is outside the norm.  I had noise problems with the Corvina and turns out there was a loose ground with it.  This seems similar.  Should I open it up and check if anything is loose?
   
  Edit: I guess I should mention it's with the WA22.


----------



## hodgjy

http://www.tubemonger.com/Telefunken_1970_71_EZ80_6V4_Diamond_Falcon_ULM_p/499.htm
  Quote: 





sonic boom said:


> Dose anyone know a place too buy these tubes? Telefunken EZ80 rectifier


----------



## jc9394

keph said:


> http://www.wiwitubes.com/en/cform.php contact them..they are based in Hong Kong and will do international shipping. They have loads of 5998s and other sort of tubes just name them and they will have it..i just got some 5U4G and 274B from them.ill post photos of the shop later..




I used to buy from them with OP's help. They don't ship when I first approach them. Lorenz is a great...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





keph said:


> Will do..!!!
> 
> can anyone recommend me a good driver tubes for the WA6SE..?i got the stock Sylvania 6EW7...


 
   
  Japanese made Raytheon 6EW7 and British made GE 6EW7 get my vote.  I had a pair of RCA 6FD7 with a rare and unique plate configuration I really liked too when I had my WA6, but nobody including myself was ever able to find another pair like it.  Hopefully the new owner enjoys them.  A Sylvania 6FD7 is probably also worth trying, I personally didn't care for the commonly found grey plate RCA version.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Just got the Sophia Electric Princess mesh-plate rectifier I ordered from Macedanian Hero. MH, I can't believe how fast it got here - thanks!
   
  After only a few minutes, this is EXACTLY what i was hoping it would be. It widened the sound stage, tightened the bass up and made it more articulate, and sped things up a tad all at the same time compared to my Mullard GZ37. I was looking for a nice middle ground between my GZ34 and GZ37 and instead got a complete improvement over both. It goes great with my Sylvania chrome top 6SN7, which are very nice and have nice lush mids.
   
  I'll have to try my Tung Sol 6F8G again tonight with the princess now. Using the Mullard GZ37 and GZ34, I ended up preferring the Sylvania 6SN7. Be interesting to try again with the Princess this time since the combo has a lot to do with how a given tube sounds.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i love that tube!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Just got the Sophia Electric Princess mesh-plate rectifier I ordered from Macedanian Hero. MH, I can't believe how fast it got here - thanks!
> 
> After only a few minutes, this is EXACTLY what i was hoping it would be. It widened the sound stage, tightened the bass up and made it more articulate, and sped things up a tad all at the same time compared to my Mullard GZ37. I was looking for a nice middle ground between my GZ34 and GZ37 and instead got a complete improvement over both. It goes great with my Sylvania chrome top 6SN7, which are very nice and have nice lush mids.
> 
> I'll have to try my Tung Sol 6F8G again tonight with the princess now. Using the Mullard GZ37 and GZ34, I ended up preferring the Sylvania 6SN7. Be interesting to try again with the Princess this time since the combo has a lot to do with how a given tube sounds.


 
   
  Glad you're enjoying it (and that it got there so fast from here in Canada). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Princess and the EML 5U4G were my two favourite rectifier tubes for the WA22.


----------



## keph

is the Full music 274B the OEM for the Sophia Princess??? i got the Balloon glass instead of the Coke glass one..somehow ive read almost anything i could find for the Full music brand but lots of people were saying that Full Music is the OEM for Sophia Princess 274B tube..
   
  anyone have compared them..? I kinda like the sound of my Full music 274B compared to my Tung-Sol 5U4G tubes for my now configuration without DAC and DDC just straight out of my laptop with 3.5mm to RCA cable...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





keph said:


> is the Full music 274B the OEM for the Sophia Princess???


 
   
  I don't think so. Aren't the Full Music tubes made in China? The Sophia Princess is made in Bulgaria.
   
  I'm not sure if the Full Music tubes are compatible with Woo amps though.


----------



## keph

Pics of Wiwi Tube Store in Hong Kong...TUBE HEAVEN a must go place if you happen to be in Hong Kong... I've never been to a place where it's as organized as this... It's just amazing...
   
   
  Enjoy...
   
                  
   
   
  My humble setup for now until monday...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I don't think so. Aren't the Full Music tubes made in China? The Sophia Princess is made in Bulgaria.
> 
> I'm not sure if the Full Music tubes are compatible with Woo amps though.


 
  yup its made in China...but ive seen post in this thread saying that Sophia Princess is just the rebranded Full Music... Just like Tung-sol with WE...
   
  Im now using the Full Music's 274B and i love it...


----------



## xinque

Didn't even know brick and mortar tube stores actually existed.  Don't think I've ever seen one even here in the U.S.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The fullmusic and sophia are the same tube was my understanding, fullmusic is the actual manufacturer.  It's the same for the 6SN7 and 300B tubes.  Just make sure you don't have the n+ version which draws 4 amps of heater current.  Those ones are unsafe for Woo amps.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





keph said:


> Pics of Wiwi Tube Store in Hong Kong...TUBE HEAVEN a must go place if you happen to be in Hong Kong... I've never been to a place where it's as organized as this... It's just amazing...
> 
> 
> Enjoy...
> ...


 
   
  That looks awesome..!


----------



## 188479

Well I pulled the trigger on a silver 6SE today...now the wait begins.  Looking forward to owning my first woo!


----------



## steel108

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Bah, I don't recall that
> 
> I was pretty darn out of it when I ordered, though.


 
   
  That's why I haven't pulled the trigger on the WA2 or 22... waiting a minimum of 4 weeks isn't going to happen.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> That looks awesome..!


 
  I love to spend the night there...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The fullmusic and sophia are the same tube was my understanding, fullmusic is the actual manufacturer.  It's the same for the 6SN7 and 300B tubes.  Just make sure you don't have the n+ version which draws 4 amps of heater current.  Those ones are unsafe for Woo amps.


 
  I was about to get the N+ version but i did not because of seeing the spec that it is 4amp version...looks good though


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Pics of Wiwi Tube Store in Hong Kong...TUBE HEAVEN a must go place if you happen to be in Hong Kong... I've never been to a place where it's as organized as this... It's just amazing...
> 
> 
> Enjoy...
> ...


 
   
   
  That made for a nice virtual browse. Of course, in real time and dimension, they'd have to serve tea to keep me shopping.


----------



## keph

guys need help here..
   
  choose one of these tubes with more mids and lows to it..
   
  RCA 6EW7 small bottle or Sylvania 6EW7 big bottle??
   
  my stock tubes are the Sylvania 6EW7 i dont know if its the big or small bottle (its the Big/Fat bottle imo) you guys can help me see in the above picture and tell me..THX
   
  and has anyone tried the Philco 6FD7 ??? how are they?? i heard that 6FD7 are good for LCDs and HE series headphone??
   
  im getting them from Wiwi Tubes.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





keph said:


> guys need help here..
> 
> choose one of these tubes with more mids and lows to it..
> 
> ...


 
   
  I thought the lows were more emphasized on the 6FD7s I've tried (haven't tried philco, think the ones I have are Westinghouse), the 6EW7s I've tried were more neutral (RCA and GE).. Mids were pretty similar to my ears.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The fullmusic and sophia are the same tube was my understanding, fullmusic is the actual manufacturer.  It's the same for the 6SN7 and 300B tubes.  Just make sure you don't have the n+ version which draws 4 amps of heater current.  Those ones are unsafe for Woo amps.


 
   
  I was looking in to another amp the other day using Fullmusic 2A3s and I was immediately reminded of sophia's. I'd totally believe that an OEM arrangement could exist. I'd imagine getting into the manufacturing side of an niche technology would be costly if you weren't already in on it. I figure the machinery used to make valves probably doesn't exist as 'off the shelf' box solutions (as it were). If someone wanted new gear, you'd probably have to have a engineering firm scratch build you the equipment. Even Sophia's site emphasises a   'research orientated' company. So they're using someone somewhere for the legwork.
   
  If it helps anyone, Fullmusic have some pics.
http://www.tube-fullmusic.com/products/en-product.htm
  If you're cynical, OEMing is just rebadging. In the short time I've been using tubes, I've read a lot about how some will chase down a particularly type with the knowledge it's brand X by any other name. ODMs are interesting too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer


----------



## keph

Some how imo Sophia Princess is a rebranded Full Music...this is just my opinion and from what i see internals all the same (by the looks)...pls Sophia users dont attack me its just my opinion...


----------



## roadster-s

Is it normal for the power transformer of my WA6SE to be generating noise one can hear when standing a few feet away? nothing that's interfering with the sound, but it does make the rectifier tube "rattle" a little.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





steel108 said:


> That's why I haven't pulled the trigger on the WA2 or 22... waiting a minimum of 4 weeks isn't going to happen.


 
   
  Patience pays off in this hobby. Just think, had you pulled the trigger 4 or 5 weeks ago, you'd have it by now.


----------



## Csericks

steel108 said:


> That's why I haven't pulled the trigger on the WA2 or 22... waiting a minimum of 4 weeks isn't going to happen.



I bought a WA6 in 2009 which I replaced with a WA2 about 4 months ago. In both cases it was well worth the wait!


----------



## driver 8

I emailed Woo Audio about expedited service 2 days ago and they told me my amp would be ready to ship on Monday regardless, making my time from order to ship 13 days -- not too bad.
   
  They're out of stands again, though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> I was looking in to another amp the other day using Fullmusic 2A3s and I was immediately reminded of sophia's. I'd totally believe that an OEM arrangement could exist. I'd imagine getting into the manufacturing side of an niche technology would be costly if you weren't already in on it. I figure the machinery used to make valves probably doesn't exist as 'off the shelf' box solutions (as it were). If someone wanted new gear, you'd probably have to have a engineering firm scratch build you the equipment. Even Sophia's site emphasises a   'research orientated' company. So they're using someone somewhere for the legwork.
> 
> If it helps anyone, Fullmusic have some pics.
> http://www.tube-fullmusic.com/products/en-product.htm
> If you're cynical, OEMing is just rebadging. In the short time I've been using tubes, I've read a lot about how some will chase down a particularly type with the knowledge it's brand X by any other name. ODMs are interesting too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_design_manufacturer


 
  Fullmusic and Shuguang OEM for a number of smaller boutique brands actually.  The brand can request specific material usage, design variations, or assert that only more experienced workers be on their line to improve consistency but in the end it will still have the same look as the tube its based on because of the tooling and raw components availability.
   
  The one I've always been curious about is KR Audio.  They are Czech just like EML and there are signs of a connection there but the KR Glass looks very different.  I then noticed that the glass envelope for their 2A3 is just like the ones used in the Shuguang 2A3B and the new Psvane 2A3, but there are clear indications that KR has an actual production facility in the Czech Republic so this wouldn't make sense either.
   
  Modern tube manufacturing seems to have adapted to the global economy to some degree.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





keph said:


> guys need help here..
> 
> choose one of these tubes with more mids and lows to it..
> 
> ...


 
  I think you'd like the Japanese made Raytheon 6EW7.  Good body to the music and strong low end for a 6EW7.  They have a mellow sound that emphasizes the mids somewhat.  6FD7 tubes have a thicker sounding lower midrange and upper bass region but the transparency isn't as good IMO.  The 6EW7 reminds me of a 6SN7 in a lot of ways, which is why Woo originally chose it for the amp I'm sure.
   
  You can find the Rays easily enough on eBay if you are patient.  They will have Made in Japan stamped right on the glass if they're the right ones.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The one I've always been curious about is KR Audio.  They are Czech just like EML and there are signs of a connection there but the KR Glass looks very different.


 
   
  Alesha Vaic (AVVT), and Dr Kron (KR) were the pioneers of modern tubes.
  Alesha worked with Jac van de Walle (EML) and Dieter Ennemoser (C37 Project) on certain projects.
   
  Alesha had a contract with Audio Note.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Is it normal for the power transformer of my WA6SE to be generating noise one can hear when standing a few feet away? nothing that's interfering with the sound, but it does make the rectifier tube "rattle" a little.


 
   
  This is not normal. And will require further observation. Also, if your rectifier rattles a little, your sound is being affected. Once the matter is resolved, you will know...


----------



## roadster-s

^^^^ tried different outlets (I have 4 dedicated outlets for my complete AV system) switched power cords, etc... no change. Will email Jack to see what he has to say.


----------



## Silent One

Hopefully, it turns out to be something simple... in need of correcting but simple. I absolutely adore WooAudio amps! Their build quality, aesthetics and enjoyment. Their business model - low entry point with lower priced parts is brilliant! If I thought saving up a year was a long time to bring home a _6 Special Edition_, imagine if the entire line was offered with premium parts only? I'd only be receiving it right about now.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Is it normal for the power transformer of my WA6SE to be generating noise one can hear when standing a few feet away? nothing that's interfering with the sound, but it does make the rectifier tube "rattle" a little.


 
  Is it a hum?  Slight hum can be normal, but it shouldn't be audible from a few feet away.  Are you leaving your amp on without a headphone plugged in?  That could cause this, and it is very bad for the transformers too.
   
  Alternatively if the transformer isn't potted correctly it could be causing enough vibration to produce this.


----------



## Ahzari

xcalibur255 said:


> Is it a hum?  Slight hum can be normal, but it shouldn't be audible from a few feet away.  Are you leaving your amp on without a headphone plugged in?  That could cause this, and it is very bad for the transformers too.
> 
> Alternatively if the transformer isn't potted correctly it could be causing enough vibration to produce this.




I also hear a light hum when I'm rather close to the SE, from my normal sitting area 6 ft away I don't hear anything.


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Is it a hum?  Slight hum can be normal, but it shouldn't be audible from a few feet away.  Are you leaving your amp on without a headphone plugged in?  That could cause this, and it is very bad for the transformers too.
> 
> Alternatively if the transformer isn't potted correctly it could be causing enough vibration to produce this.


 
  Yes it's a slight hum, but I can't hear any out of my three 1,000 watt power amps, unless my ear is stuck right against them. Headphones always plugged-in when on. What I hear from the rectifier is a slight "shimmering" rattle hat comes from within and I hear that one standing a foot away (that has me quite concerned). If I'm arm's lenght away from the amp and power it off, I can tell right away that that hum is shutting off with it.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Yes it's a slight hum, but I can't hear any out of my three 1,000 watt power amps, unless my ear is stuck right against them. Headphones always plugged-in when on. What I hear from the rectifier is a slight "shimmering" rattle hat comes from within and I hear that one standing a foot away (that has me quite concerned). If I'm arm's lenght away from the amp and power it off, I can tell right away that that hum is shutting off with it.


 
  I think I know what you mean, I get that slight shimmer vibration right when the rectifier starts up but then it smooths out in a second. I never noticed anything outside of that initial startup. I do have tube dampers on though (maybe they help)..


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I think I know what you mean, I get that slight shimmer vibration right when the rectifier starts up but then it smooths out in a second. I never noticed anything outside of that initial startup. I do have tube dampers on though (maybe they help)..


 
  No dampers and mine actually gets noisier as it warms up.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I did intend to buy some dampers but wish to resolve this problem 1st since it's not a normal operational condition.


----------



## obzilla

My WA5 is finally in the province, after a boomerang like tragectory through the states, it has now looped over from Vancouver, over me, and into the eastern half of the province. And we wonder while shipping charges are so much, the things we buy get to go on firggin vacations before arriving at their destinations 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  Anyways, looks like it will be here Monday. Monday night is going to be an allnighter. Severe productivity hit projected for Tuesday at work
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## jc9394

obzilla said:


> My WA5 is finally in the province, after a boomerang like tragectory through the states, it has now looped over from Vancouver, over me, and into the eastern half of the province. And we wonder while shipping charges are so much, the things we buy get to go on firggin vacations before arriving at their destinations :mad: .
> 
> Anyways, looks like it will be here Monday. Monday night is going to be an allnighter. Severe productivity hit projected for Tuesday at work .




I took two days off when I first received my WA22...my manager is not too happy about it when he found out why I took those days off.


----------



## Silent One

As luck would have it, my Woo arrived mid-afternoon Friday. I had gotten all chores and responsibilities handled by lunch-time, Friday. When evening fell, I ordered a Large Shrimp Pizza and was free to play the entire weekend!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> My WA5 is finally in the province, after a boomerang like tragectory through the states, it has now looped over from Vancouver, over me, and into the eastern half of the province. And we wonder while shipping charges are so much, the things we buy get to go on firggin vacations before arriving at their destinations
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You'd make a great analyst.


----------



## MacedonianHero

nvm


----------



## MacedonianHero

Day 6 being Woo-less. Kind of weird actually, but luckily my LF is helping.
   
  That said, I wouldn't rule out picking up another Woo amp down the road.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> a Large Shrimp Pizza


 
   
  Is that even legal??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Is that even legal??


 
   





 Yup. I checked - the little ones were from a sustainable catch!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Day 6 being Woo-less. Kind of weird actually, but luckily my LF is helping.
> 
> That said, I wouldn't rule out picking up another Woo amp down the road.


 
   
  Woo-less since winter, I still feel a bit out of sorts.


----------



## roadster-s

While I wait for Jack to respond to my hum problem, I removed the rectifier and reinstalled it. With 6-8 hours of play time since, the metallic rattle coming out of it hasn't returned!!?? it's dead quiet. Will just be a question now of evaluating with Jack what a "normal level" of transformer hum is.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Fullmusic and Shuguang OEM for a number of smaller boutique brands actually.  The brand can request specific material usage, design variations, or assert that only more experienced workers be on their line to improve consistency but in the end it will still have the same look as the tube its based on because of the tooling and raw components availability.
> 
> The one I've always been curious about is KR Audio.  They are Czech just like EML and there are signs of a connection there but the KR Glass looks very different.  I then noticed that the glass envelope for their 2A3 is just like the ones used in the Shuguang 2A3B and the new Psvane 2A3, but there are clear indications that KR has an actual production facility in the Czech Republic so this wouldn't make sense either.
> 
> Modern tube manufacturing seems to have adapted to the global economy to some degree.


 
   
  Is it possible that KR has some agreements to OEM some of their lines? Say, clones of 'popular' types, while keeping some product lines (some of which are unique to KR and not equivalents to anything at all) strictly in house? They can profit from the market for such types, without giving over factory floor space to do it. KR specific tubes seem like a niche within a niche, only usable on KR amps...or maybe custom jobs built to be compatible. They seem to be have mind blowing prices too (though the warranty is in years, not days or months)
  I remember seeing this on TV, it covers Valve manufacture from a KR point of view.
  .


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> My WA5 is finally in the province, after a boomerang like tragectory through the states, it has now looped over from Vancouver, over me, and into the eastern half of the province. And we wonder while shipping charges are so much, the things we buy get to go on firggin vacations before arriving at their destinations
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can you let us know the process in the future?  I live in Vancouver and am looking to change my Pheonix for a WA22 sooner or later.
   
  Cheers


----------



## roadster-s

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Can you let us know the process in the future?  I live in Vancouver and am looking to change my Pheonix for a WA22 sooner or later.
> 
> Cheers


 
   
  Just saying, I live in Montreal and had my WA6SE amp shipped to a logistics warehouse in Champlain NY, a 30 drive away. If you have such an option accross the border where you live, there are no CDN duties to pay on electronics gear when crossing back, only the applicable taxes. Shipping is much cheaper also (no brokerage fees, etc...)


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Can you let us know the process in the future?  I live in Vancouver and am looking to change my Pheonix for a WA22 sooner or later.
> 
> Cheers


 
   
  I bought mine used, but what process? They ship it, you pay 12% of the value when it arrives if using Canada Post/USPS. FedEx and UPS can be far worse if using ground shipping, air is the same 12% (in Ontario, whatever your HST, or PST+GST in BC is, is what you'll pay).


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





roadster-s said:


> Just saying, I live in Montreal and had my WA6SE amp shipped to a logistics warehouse in Champlain NY, a 30 drive away. If you have such an option ac cross the border where you live, there are no CDN duties to pay on electronics gear when crossing back, only the applicable taxes. Shipping is much cheaper also (no brokerage fees, etc...)


 
  I've bought almost all my gear from the States. With USPS / CanadaPost I have never paid more than the applicable sales tax, + a negligible ($5) admin fee.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yup. I checked - the little ones were from a sustainable catch!


 
   
  No I mean the part about putting them on pizza


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> No I mean the part about putting them on pizza


 
   





 It was either go with the _preferred_ cheese pizza one night and have grill shrimp the next. Or bring them together, so I could play with the Woo endlessly that first weekend uninterrupted!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Testing from ipad 3.

Edit: Woh I can finally post from a mobile device with my new ipad3. Sweet. None of my other gadgets have worked in the past.


----------



## grokit

My WA22 modification is officially underway. Enjoying some quality time before it goes to Queens.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My WA22 modification is officially underway. Enjoying some quality time before it goes to Queens.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Remind us what you're having done to it. I would love to get the Mundorf oil caps installed at some point.
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> My WA22 modification is officially underway. Enjoying some quality time before it goes to Queens.


----------



## Earrat

Here's some quick shots. 
   
  http://flic.kr/p/bTV4na
  http://flic.kr/p/bF1jfE
  http://flic.kr/p/bF1jxE
  http://flic.kr/p/bF1jAJ
  http://flic.kr/p/bTV53X
  http://flic.kr/p/bTV4ax
  http://flic.kr/p/bF1iP7


----------



## Silent One

You're making me miss my _6 Special Edition! _Good thing I'm listening to Bessie Smith singing the Blues over French Radio or I wouldn't know what to do after seeing those photos.


----------



## grokit

^ Nice 6SE glowpics, Earrat 




sid-fi said:


> Remind us what you're having done to it. I would love to get the Mundorf oil caps installed at some point.
> 
> 
> grokit said:
> ...




Going for the balanced preamp output finally.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ Nice 6SE glowpics, Earrat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your enhanced Woo is gonna sound so euphonic and so far out, NASA may come calling...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice pics.....


----------



## keph

Show off time hehe...My Stello DA220 and U3 have just arrive...
   
  sorry for the crappy pics...


----------



## Silent One

Hardly poor! Thanks for sharing, keph. These shots look like they're straight out of a V.I.P. lounge... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will wait for your impressions to trickle out over the coming week or two.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hardly poor! Thanks for sharing, keph. These shots look like they're straight out of a V.I.P. lounge...


 
  hahaha...its because i have a  blue color laptop fan and a Ducky 9008 Shining a blue LED...
   
  impressions are coming soon need time to burn in all my stuffs..hehe anyways the Stello DA220 and U3 are amazing though a really good pairing with the WA6SE...
   
  Thx for your nice comment...


----------



## San Raal

Have Cacatalysis' nice pair of GZ34 black base GZ34 in the WA5 now, wish I could tell everyone how they sounded but have a horrid ear infection which makes everything sound like its underwater 
   
  Also a pair of Mullard ECC32 on the way, after Davidoo's posts I had to repurchase these guys - got a pair of platinum glass through the bay, I couldn't stomach tube-worlds prices or attitude over email. Cross fingers they sound good and the hearing clears up and Ill post impressions with GZ34, ECC32, Takatsuki 300B. Should be a killer combo!
   
  Congrats to those here who have recently purchased some 596, I know a few have been bought just recently!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Have Cacatalysis' nice pair of GZ34 black base GZ34 in the WA5 now, wish I could tell everyone how they sounded but have a horrid ear infection which makes everything sound like its underwater
> 
> .


 
   






 aww, i agree, i hate that feeling  when i'm sick, music doesn't sound as good. its kinda like when i'm having really bad comedowns, music just sounds muffled and dull and plasticky


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





keph said:


> hahaha...its because i have a  blue color laptop fan and a Ducky 9008 Shining a blue LED...
> 
> impressions are coming soon need time to burn in all my stuffs..hehe anyways the Stello DA220 and U3 are amazing though a really good pairing with the WA6SE...
> 
> Thx for your nice comment...


 
   
  What rectifier tube are you using with your SE keph? really like the glow


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> What rectifier tube are you using with your SE keph? really like the glow


 
  It's the Full Music 274B Balloon type glass... It glows like Shopia...
   
  Sounds fantastic too if the Tung-Sol 5U4G is too warm for some musics i swapped it to the Full Music great sound stage...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Have Cacatalysis' nice pair of GZ34 black base GZ34 in the WA5 now, wish I could tell everyone how they sounded but have a horrid ear infection which makes everything sound like its underwater
> 
> Also a pair of Mullard ECC32 on the way, after Davidoo's posts I had to repurchase these guys - got a pair of platinum glass through the bay, I couldn't stomach tube-worlds prices or attitude over email. Cross fingers they sound good and the hearing clears up and Ill post impressions with GZ34, ECC32, Takatsuki 300B. Should be a killer combo!
> 
> *Congrats to those here who have recently purchased some 596, I know a few have been bought just recently!*


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> aww, i agree, i hate that feeling  when i'm sick, music doesn't sound as good. its kinda like when i'm having really bad comedowns, music just sounds muffled and dull and plasticky


 
   
  It's even worse with the arrival of something new... highly anticipated... only to sound worthless.


----------



## ckunstadt

Hey Wooligans.  Um, so I just had a holy-crap moment. I turned on my WA22 (after swapping my rectifier) and saw a SPARK arc from one of my power tubes down to the volume knob (I think). Hard to tell but it was a good 7-9 inches long!!  I turned it off within a half a second and just stared at everything for a while. I did not smell anything or see any smoke and I could not detect any visible damage at all. I already knew everything was set properly in the sockets... so I turned it on again without my headphones plugged in.   No spark.    It seems fine now... and it sounds fine. So... what the hell??  It IS very dry here in New Mexico... was it static??  I did not enjoy that.
   
  any advice or ideas?
   
  thanks
  Chris


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Hey Wooligans.  Um, so I just had a holy-crap moment. I turned on my WA22 (after swapping my rectifier) and saw a SPARK arc from one of my power tubes down to the volume knob (I think). Hard to tell but it was a good 7-9 inches long!!  I turned it off within a half a second and just stared at everything for a while. I did not smell anything or see any smoke and I could not detect any visible damage at all. I already knew everything was set properly in the sockets... so I turned it on again without my headphones plugged in.   No spark.    It seems fine now... and it sounds fine. So... what the hell??  It IS very dry here in New Mexico... was it static??  I did not enjoy that.
> 
> any advice or ideas?
> 
> ...


 
   
  wow... thats scary, it would have taken me a day and some disassembly to get the balls to turn it on again. Hope everything is fine.


----------



## cacatalysis

Waiting to hear your impression of that killer combo.  How about  a combo of WE 300B, B65 and Takatsuki rectifier?.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Hey Wooligans.  Um, so I just had a holy-crap moment. I turned on my WA22 (after swapping my rectifier) and saw a SPARK arc from one of my power tubes down to the volume knob (I think). Hard to tell but it was a good 7-9 inches long!!  I turned it off within a half a second and just stared at everything for a while. I did not smell anything or see any smoke and I could not detect any visible damage at all. I already knew everything was set properly in the sockets... so I turned it on again without my headphones plugged in.   No spark.    It seems fine now... and it sounds fine. So... what the hell??  It IS very dry here in New Mexico... was it static??  I did not enjoy that.
> 
> any advice or ideas?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Sorry to hear about your experience. No ideas at the moment. Previously, some here scoffed at Jack Wu's advice to never leave your Woo turned-on unattended. Though that wasn't your case, it shows the unexpected can happen.


----------



## flaming_june

ckunstadt said:


> Hey Wooligans.  Um, so I just had a holy-crap moment. I turned on my WA22 (after swapping my rectifier) and saw a SPARK arc from one of my power tubes down to the volume knob (I think). Hard to tell but it was a good 7-9 inches long!!  I turned it off within a half a second and just stared at everything for a while. I did not smell anything or see any smoke and I could not detect any visible damage at all. I already knew everything was set properly in the sockets... so I turned it on again without my headphones plugged in.   No spark.    It seems fine now... and it sounds fine. So... what the hell??  It IS very dry here in New Mexico... was it static??  I did not enjoy that.
> 
> any advice or ideas?
> thanks
> Chris




Holy. I thunk we've all had our omg woo moments but none as extreme as sparks. Maybe Javk can answer your question.


----------



## Earrat

Any DIY people in DFW? I want to change capacitors, but I do not trust myself.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





keph said:


> It's the Full Music 274B Balloon type glass... It glows like Shopia...


 
   
  Does it sound like the Sophia as well?
   
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I haven't had a real cold or worse since I read about what emergency/combat physicians do to prevent illness, since they can't afford to get sick. On the first onset of symptoms, five packets (5,000 iu) of Emergen-C, then two to three packets every hour until the symptoms subside. I do this ASAP if I get a sore throat (cold) or body aches (flu) and it never goes past that, just away.
   
   
  Quote: 





ckunstadt said:


> Hey Wooligans.  Um, so I just had a holy-crap moment. I turned on my WA22 (after swapping my rectifier) and saw a SPARK arc from one of my power tubes down to the volume knob (I think). Hard to tell but it was a good 7-9 inches long!!  I turned it off within a half a second and just stared at everything for a while. I did not smell anything or see any smoke and I could not detect any visible damage at all. I already knew everything was set properly in the sockets... so I turned it on again without my headphones plugged in.   No spark.    It seems fine now... and it sounds fine. So... what the hell??  It IS very dry here in New Mexico... was it static??  I did not enjoy that.
> 
> any advice or ideas?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sounds like you had a Tesla moment, kinda cool as long as nobody got hurt. Did the date on the calendar change?


----------



## ckunstadt

> Sounds like you had a Tesla moment, kinda cool as long as nobody got hurt. Did the date on the calendar change?


 
   
  Haha. No, it's still 1979.


----------



## grokit




----------



## fatcat28037

Yamaha CD-S2000>WA22>balanced(RS-1, D7000, K1000)
  Tubes<> Power> Sylvania 7236, Driver>Treasure-Hi CV 181-Z, Rectifier>Electron Tube 274B


----------



## grokit

fatcat28037 said:


> Yamaha CD-S2000>WA22>balanced(RS-1, D7000, K1000)
> Tubes<> Power> Sylvania 7236, Driver>Treasure-Hi CV 181-Z, Rectifier>Electron Tube 274B




Hmm, I've actually never tried plugging my K1000 into my WA22 as I didn't feel that it had enough oomph to run my HE-6 properly. How do you like them out of yours? I'll have to try that combo when my amp comes back.


----------



## Rawrbington

Holy crap Take Five by the Dave Brubeck Quartet sounds amazing on my WA2!!


----------



## obzilla

My WA5 is still in Ottawa (a ~5 hour drive) and for some reason hasn't even moved today... the wait becomes longer.





























   
  To lessen the blow a fellow headfier offered me a good deal on some Sophia Princess meshplate ceramic base 300Bs, and I went out on a limb and picked up a new pair of matching 6SL7s. I suppose if I have to wait any longer I will have to complete the set with some Sophia 274Bs.
  Anyone have a recommendation on a good place to pick up a pair at a good price?
   
  Already costing me more than any other headfi purchase and the thing isn't even here yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> My WA5 is still in Ottawa (a ~5 hour drive) and for some reason hasn't even moved today... the wait becomes longer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is it shipping Canada Post? Usually you see no updates whatsoever, then magically it appears here in Toronto. Very typical of Canada Post.


----------



## Pudu

obzilla said:


> My WA5 is still in Ottawa (a ~5 hour drive) and for some reason hasn't even moved today... the wait becomes longer.
> :mad:   :mad:   :mad:
> 
> To lessen the blow a fellow headfier offered me a good deal on some Sophia Princess meshplate ceramic base 300Bs, and I went out on a limb and picked up a new pair of matching 6SL7s. I suppose if I have to wait any longer I will have to complete the set with some Sophia 274Bs.
> ...




You want I should go keep it company? I'll be real gentle.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Is it shipping Canada Post? Usually you see no updates whatsoever, then magically it appears here in Toronto. Very typical of Canada Post.


 
   
  USPS/CanadaPost... but it got into Richmond, from Vancouver on Saturday morning... and that's less than 5 hours from here. It cleared customs on Saturday as well (it had arrived from SF).
   
  Canada Post I have found to be (usually) quite punctual, if by now there is nothing on the site for the day by now, almost 9pm, I don't imagine it has moved. But you may be right. Here's hoping that it's sitting in Missisauga for delivery tomorrow.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





pudu said:


> You want I should go keep it company? I'll be real gentle.


 
   
  You run a black ops mission, get it out of Canada Post's hands and into my custody and I'll pay you the HST that is due and let you listen for an hour.
   
  How about that?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> USPS/CanadaPost... but it got into Richmond, from Vancouver on Saturday morning... and that's less than 5 hours from here. It cleared customs on Saturday as well (it had arrived from SF).
> 
> Canada Post I have found to be (usually) quite punctual, if by now there is nothing on the site for the day by now, almost 9pm, I don't imagine it has moved. But you may be right. Here's hoping that it's sitting in Missisauga for delivery tomorrow.


 

 Good luck! I'm hoping that it arrives in Toronto soon for your sake (and mine too so I can hear it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Pudu

h34r:


----------



## hodgjy

I'm only speculating here, so take it with a grain of salt. I think you're ok because:

1) the fuse didn't blow
2) the tubes didn't blow
3) it still sounds fine
4) no smoke or barbecued hair

I would maybe open it up to see if the grounds are properly connected. While it is dry, which can certainly cause a build up of static electricity, it seems like a remote possibility a ground is not properly seated. This may have caused the tube (or whatever needed to discharge) to ground to the volume knob and not to the dedicated ground. Lucky it didn't ground to you!



ckunstadt said:


> Hey Wooligans.  Um, so I just had a holy-crap moment. I turned on my WA22 (after swapping my rectifier) and saw a SPARK arc from one of my power tubes down to the volume knob (I think). Hard to tell but it was a good 7-9 inches long!!  I turned it off within a half a second and just stared at everything for a while. I did not smell anything or see any smoke and I could not detect any visible damage at all. I already knew everything was set properly in the sockets... so I turned it on again without my headphones plugged in.   No spark.    It seems fine now... and it sounds fine. So... what the hell??  It IS very dry here in New Mexico... was it static??  I did not enjoy that.
> 
> any advice or ideas?
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

I've been giving my little WA3 girl quite the workout at work. It's good because she blocks out a lot of extraneous noise. However, it makes coming home to the Trafomatic bittersweet. The combination of my computer's line out and the WA3 itself just can't keep up in terms of soundstage. It's very compressed. The Trafomatic just slaughters the little Woo girl. I guess I gotta upgrade the work DAC sooner than later, but, unfortunately, the little girl still lags behind in soundstage based on her genetics. It makes me appreciate the ability of the Trafomatic, but highlights the little girl's weaknesses.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Beautifullllllllllll !
  Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> Yamaha CD-S2000>WA22>balanced(RS-1, D7000, K1000)
> Tubes<> Power> Sylvania 7236, Driver>Treasure-Hi CV 181-Z, Rectifier>Electron Tube 274B


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Beautifullllllllllll !


 
  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Beautifullllllllllll !


 
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> +1


 
   
   
  Granted, the Woo makes for a beautiful ensemble, with the Yammy being a nice compliment. But I'm diggin' the storage rack... in Alpha order!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Does it sound like the Sophia as well?


 
   
  Haven't tried Sophia so i can't tell...but i love the sound of the Full Music 274B though like it better than my Tung-Sol 5U4G...


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> Waiting to hear your impression of that killer combo.  How about  a combo of WE 300B, B65 and Takatsuki rectifier?.


 
   
  Ill need to sell my car and take a second mortgage out to get a pair of the Taka rec's they're crazy money, but I have a hunch they'll be on the short list one day...
   
  B65 - Not heard much about this one, but a quick search shows that it must be desirable given the money they're changing hands for down at the bay of fleas. Anyone have any experience with this tube in Woo gear ?


----------



## grokit

keph said:


> grokit said:
> 
> 
> > Does it sound like the Sophia as well?
> ...




They should sound exactly the same, if it is true that it's the same tube as has been speculated.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





grokit said:


> They should sound exactly the same, if it is true that it's the same tube as has been speculated.


 
  That has been on my mind too...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Ill need to sell my car and take a second mortgage out to get a pair of the Taka rec's they're crazy money, but I have a hunch they'll be on the short list one day...
> 
> B65 - Not heard much about this one, but a quick search shows that it must be desirable given the money they're changing hands for down at the bay of fleas. Anyone have any experience with this tube in Woo gear ?


 
  ebay can be a source of some wonderful tubes, if one has enough patience and knows what to look for.


----------



## grokit

It's fun like a casino :rolleyes:


----------



## keph

More Glow...!!!
   
  Hope you all like it...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to The Smashing Pumpkin's "Siamese Dream" album with my RS1i and WA2/WA6-SE combo and I can honestly say this is AWESOME. i haven't had such an immersive listening experience in such a long time. everythings perfect. the rs1i are rocking hard, billy corgan's sounds awesome and the guitars are so clean, drums punchy, and tight clean bass. also something i've noticed tonight that the RS1i rarely shows, and thats SOUNDSTAGE and DEPTH! i've noticed this alot from the WA2/WA6-SE combo, together, they really open up the soundstage quite nicely and add depth and life thats missing in alot of music today.
   
   
  reminds me that its a good idea i haven't sold my rs1 (at least until i get ps1000, and i might still keep rs1 after that...)
   
  also, got rid of the optical on my musical fidelity v-link and put the coax back in


----------



## Rawrbington

Love that album!
  To me its one of the best rock albums of the last quarter century lol
   
  are you listening to the original or the new remaster that came out in november?


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Hmm, I've actually never tried plugging my K1000 into my WA22 as I didn't feel that it had enough oomph to run my HE-6 properly. How do you like them out of yours? I'll have to try that combo when my amp comes back.


 
  I have the volume knob turned to 2 o'clock when using the K1000, whereas with the RS-1 9 o'clock is sufficient. I'm using the 7236 power tubes which boost the output to 2w. without those tubes the K1000 wouldn't get of the ground.


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Granted, the Woo makes for a beautiful ensemble, with the Yammy being a nice compliment. But I'm diggin' the storage rack... in Alpha order!


 
   
  Here's a better picture of the shelves. I built this about 4 months ago. It has a capacity of 1290 CDs. Note the bottom 3 shelves tilt up and the top tilts down, if makes for easier reading.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> Here's a better picture of the shelves. I built this about 4 months ago. It has a capacity of 1290 CDs. Note the bottom 3 shelves tilt up and the top tilts down, if makes for easier reading.


 
  Nice Shelves...Btw what headphones is that on the computer table..?


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





san raal said:


> B65 - Not heard much about this one, but a quick search shows that it must be desirable given the money they're changing hands for down at the bay of fleas. Anyone have any experience with this tube in Woo gear ?


 
   
  I tried the clear glass variant for a short while in my WA22, together with the 596 and GEC 6AS7. I found it to have a very nice midrange with treble that is on the bright side, yet not fatiguing. Surprisingly, I found bass performance to be very good despite people complaining it's bass shy. Bass is deep and punchy with plenty of detail. However I find it falters a bid soundstaging wise, it doesn't sound as open and spacious as other 6SN7 types.
   
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> More Glow...!!!
> 
> Hope you all like it...


 
   
  Thanks for the pics, they look awesome! I just hope the 274B doesn't turn blackish with time like my EML 5U4G.


----------



## Pudu

fatcat28037 said:


> Here's a better picture of the shelves. I built this about 4 months ago. It has a capacity of 1290 CDs. Note the bottom 3 shelves tilt up and the top tilts down, if makes for easier reading.




Clever! 

Looks awesome. Very nice work.


----------



## ckunstadt

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm only speculating here, so take it with a grain of salt. I think you're ok because:
> 1) the fuse didn't blow
> 2) the tubes didn't blow
> 3) it still sounds fine
> ...


 
  Thanks. I think I'm going to see if it happens again before I open it up. We have had wind-storms and blowing sand recently. Lots of static potential.


----------



## xinque

rosgr63 said:


> ebay can be a source of some wonderful tubes, if one has enough patience and knows what to look for.




Definitely, but doesn't seem like there's too many Takatsuki tubes floating around the secondary market yet. Checked eBay and audiogon for half a year before I finally caved and bought retail. Guess the TA-274B will have to wait for next year's bonus or tax return.. >.>


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ Nice 6SE glowpics, Earrat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm curious who is adding the pre-amp to your WA22?  I would love to get pre-amp added to my WA22.


----------



## grokit

pyramid6 said:


> grokit said:
> 
> 
> > ^ Nice 6SE glowpics, Earrat
> ...




Woo Audio is doing it, $400 + shipping for a set of balanced outputs and a switch on the back plus a load plug for the TRS out.


----------



## pyramid6

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Woo Audio is doing it, $400 + shipping for a set of balanced outputs and a switch on the back plus a load plug for the TRS out.


 
  Cool, let us know how it sounds when you get it.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## jc9394

grokit said:


> Woo Audio is doing it, $400 + shipping for a set of balanced outputs and a switch on the back plus a load plug for the TRS out.




Is the load plug for the TRS make the amp a true balanced out?


----------



## grokit

I think that it has more to do with keeping a load on the transformers without having to have a headphone plugged in. It is to be used when in preamp mode, which is controlled by the switch on the back.


----------



## cacatalysis

Congratulations.  The pre-amp out is a high value-addition.  My original plan is to use WA22 pre-amp to an Aleph 3 for the HE6.  Now a Leben does the job beautifully.


----------



## grokit

Yeah I can't believe that you were running the exact same setup already independent of the source, with the exception that I had one additional mod performed already, the changing of the SE for a second balanced input on my WA22. But it was your confirmation that all three components ran in synergy that finally pushed me to actually _get it done_. 

Here I thought I was being a bit original with my HE-6 

I have a feeling that the end game is truly in sight for me, with the exception of tweaks here and there and the never-ending quest for a better turntable. 

Well maybe adding a WEE to the speaker amp if I can ever locate an HE Audio Jade when I actually have the funds someday, that would really be it.

No, really.


----------



## cacatalysis

I think one more upgrade to do with WA22 is to ask Gleen (have not seen him here for quite a while) to change the caps, like JC's WA22 (I believe JC bought his WA22 from Daneil already upgraded).  I hear Hifiman (He audio) is working hard on an electrostatic phone to beat/compete with 009, so you may get something much better than Jade.  With WA22 as a pre-amp, I bet a used stax 007t or 717/727 will do great with 007/009.  My current stax set up uses a phoenix as amp to drive an 007tII for an MK 1.  Many in Asia and Europe use pre-amp/stax amp and report great results for 007/009.


----------



## obzilla

My Woo passport returns tonight! Finally!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> *I think one more upgrade to do with WA22 is to ask Glenn (have not seen him here for quite a while)* to change the caps, like JC's WA22 (I believe JC bought his WA22 from Daneil already upgraded).  I hear Hifiman (He audio) is working hard on an electrostatic phone to beat/compete with 009, so you may get something much better than Jade.  With WA22 as a pre-amp, I bet a used stax 007t or 717/727 will do great with 007/009.  My current stax set up uses a phoenix as amp to drive an 007tII for an MK 1.  Many in Asia and Europe use pre-amp/stax amp and report great results for 007/009.


 
   
  He's away addressing essential matters. I did hear from him this morning and he says "Hello" to fellow members and friends. He loves audio as much we do and looks forward to his return.


----------



## obzilla

It's here.

   
  It's BIG.
   

   
  Seriously, I KNEW it was big, but even after seeing all the pics, with relative scale objects, looking over the dimensions, even when carrying the boxes (!!!!! heavy @$&^%!!!) upstairs, you just can't get a sense for just how big it is without seeing one.
   

   
  It's BEAUTIFUL
  (pardon the camera grain, crap iphone, as well I had just wiped it down with computer wipes and it hadn't fully dried, so it looks smudged in these pics, light and camera noise don't help at all)
   

   
  It's (out of focus) plugged in and playing right now some of my favorite tunes, hooked to my NAD M51 and Mac mini. I will save impressions and comparisons for later, but this IS an amp with an up front "wow" factor.
   
  I'm exhausted from the transport and assembly, so I'm going to chill right here next to my rig and see what it has to say.


----------



## Ahzari

Awesome pics..! Always enjoy unboxings. Congrats obzilla


----------



## MorbidToaster

I still want to nab your chair...


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I still want to nab your chair...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> It's here.
> 
> 
> It's BIG.
> ...


 
   
  Simply a beautiful work of art (as are most Woo amps). Glad that it finally arrived safe and sound. Looking forward to your impressions Sean!


----------



## driver 8

Apparently when Woo said they could ship my amp on Monday, they were deliberate in not saying "would"?  I still haven't received a shipping notification yet :/


----------



## keph

obzilla said:


> It's here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Amazing...now who wants my 6SE..???haha


----------



## keph

driver 8 said:


> Apparently when Woo said they could ship my amp on Monday, they were deliberate in not saying "would"?  I still haven't received a shipping notification yet :/




just wait...its worthed...trust me


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Apparently when Woo said they could ship my amp on Monday, they were deliberate in not saying "would"?  I still haven't received a shipping notification yet :/


 
   
  I got mine used, so I didn't order from Jack, but he is always good with communication, send him an email or call. Also, the wait is indeed worth it. Woos are special amps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Awesome pics..! Always enjoy unboxings. Congrats obzilla


 
            +1.......................... +2.......................... +3!


----------



## madbull

It looks like a power house, please provide us with better quality pics... congrats!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm getting myself a GES very soon!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> It's here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  This overhead shot actually looks like it came from the factory floor. It's BEAUTIFUL


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





madbull said:


> It looks like a power house, please provide us with better quality pics... congrats!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The GES was the other Woo that I have owned, a beautiful amp without a doubt! It just wasn't a very good pairing with the Stax I had at the time.
  If you are using anything other than the 007s, you will love it I'm sure.
   
  And powerhouse, well it can certainly HEAT the house! This thing gets warm!
   
  I'll see what I can do about better pics. Once the lights go down I'll try to capture some tube glow, but for now I only have my iPhone, so don't expect much. Maybe this weekend I can steal my girlfriends camera for a couple of better shots.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This overhead shot actually looks like it came from the factory floor. It's BEAUTIFUL


 
   
  It had a bit of dust from the previous owner. Have any ideas for cleaning those nooks and crannies besides alcohol and Qtips + canned air?
   
  It is sounding fantastic, but sitting next to it, you really feel in the presence of 'audio art'.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Obzilla:
   
  Interesting, you have the same Eames chair and the same amp as me? I guess what they say is true, "Fools seldom differ" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Do you have the LCD-3's also? They are an amazing combo. I am running them off of a mac Mini with Amarra via USB to a Calyx DAC then to the Woo 5 with a PS audio Power Plant Permium power supply. Very impressed with the setup. Just received a set of 8 ViaBlue QTC silver spikes that I have not had time to install. Looking forward to here what they will do to the sound. Also have on the way a Toxic Cables Venom Cable for the LCD-3's. Here are some photos Frank (from Toxic Cables) sent to me of them. The cable should be here next week:
   

   

   

  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> to
> It's here.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Obzilla:
> 
> Interesting, you have the same Eames chair and the same amp as me? I guess what they say is true, "Fools seldom differ"
> 
> ...


 
   
  Indeed fools seldom differ, and we and our money are soon parted!
   
  I had seen your setup pick a while back and realized that mine was on it's way to being quite similar! I already had the chair and LCD2s by the time I saw it, but more things have serendipitously fallen into place. I have the same Calyx DAC, though it is in the bedroom rig with the Liquid Fire. For now I have the NAD M51 in the living room with the WA5.
  My Eames is not genuine, nice enough for me though, real leather and wood and all, just not authentic.
  I'm also running a Mac Mini, though it runs Audrivana Plus, but controlled via my Mackbook Air as well.
  I don't have the LCD3s, though I may soon....
  And I leave my cutting boards in the kitchen.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Overall our setups are more similar than different! You've got the better photos for now though! Looks awesome!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> It had a bit of dust from the previous owner. Have any ideas for cleaning those nooks and crannies besides alcohol and Qtips + canned air?
> 
> It is sounding fantastic, but sitting next to it, you really feel in the presence of 'audio art'.


 
   
  I cannot detect any dust. But the shot reminds me of a component passing through different stages of assembly/production - now sitting at its current station awaiting your inspection.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Indeed fools seldom differ, and we and our money are soon parted!
> 
> I had seen your setup pick a while back and realized that mine was on it's way to being quite similar! I already had the chair and LCD2s by the time I saw it, but more things have serendipitously fallen into place. I have the same Calyx DAC, though it is in the bedroom rig with the Liquid Fire. For now I have the NAD M51 in the living room with the WA5.
> My Eames is not genuine, nice enough for me though, real leather and wood and all, just not authentic.
> ...


 
  You have to let me know how the WA5 compares to the Liquid Fire especially if you get some LCD-3's.
  Do you have a Calyx power supply unit for the DAC? It really helps improve the performance of the DAC. I had a KingRex PSU, which was also good, but ordered the Calyx unit when it was announced a few months back. Let me know if you are interested in the PSU as I have not put it up for sale yet.
   
  Peace.
   
  Rumble


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> You have to let me know how the WA5 compares to the Liquid Fire especially if you get some LCD-3's.
> Do you have a Calyx power supply unit for the DAC? It really helps improve the performance of the DAC. I had a KingRex PSU, which was also good, but ordered the Calyx unit when it was announced a few months back. Let me know if you are interested in the PSU as I have not put it up for sale yet.
> 
> Peace.
> ...


 
   
  I don't have a PSU for it, but I honestly can't tell the difference between USB power and the wallwart cable power, so I am skeptical about an external power supply being a real improvement. However, send me a PM and let me know the details for yours.
   
  I will definitely do a Liquid Fire WA5 comparison at some point. The only thing I can say right now is that they are easily in the same league, sonically, with some obvious differences in flavor/palette. Beyond that would be inaccurate at best because I am in full on honeymoon mode with the WA5, and barely have half a dozen hours of headtime logged with it.
   
  Though I did get a matched quad of Golden Lions today to upgrade the LF with, and some Sophias are on the way for the Woo, so maybe once all that dust settles it will be a good time to do comparisons of both amps, with and without tube upgrades, and versus one another.


----------



## WindyCityCy

morbidtoaster said:


> I still want to nab your chair...




I want the chair!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice amps.
   
  still thinking about WA22 here, currently trying to get a job. if i get a job, i can see myself having a WA22 in a couple months or so..
   
  for now my WA2/T1 combo has served me very well, i rarely listen to my other headphones nowadays, the t1 just does such a great job at anything i throw at it.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very nice amps.
> 
> still thinking about WA22 here, currently trying to get a job. if i get a job, i can see myself having a WA22 in a couple months or so..
> 
> for now my WA2/T1 combo has served me very well, i rarely listen to my other headphones nowadays, the t1 just does such a great job at anything i throw at it.


 
   
  I have a T1 on the way, I am looking forward to seeing what it can do on the WA5.
  The HD800, while amazing in it's own right, wasn't quite for me, hopefully the T1 retains most of what I liked about the HD800 and shuffles the sound more towards were I like it.


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> The GES was the other Woo that I have owned, a beautiful amp without a doubt! It just wasn't a very good pairing with the Stax I had at the time.
> If you are using anything other than the 007s, you will love it I'm sure.
> 
> And powerhouse, well it can certainly HEAT the house! This thing gets warm!
> ...


 
   
  As a matter of fact, the 007mk2 is exactly the phone I'll be plugging on the GES 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But I've read some good reviews too, so I hope I don't get disappointed


----------



## SeeHear

Happy Days!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I just got notice from Jack that my black WA2 will ship on Monday!


----------



## grokit

Congrats!

The Wooconomy is booming these days!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Happy Days!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's amazing how people coped before online tracking. Excited for you!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congrats!
> The Wooconomy is booming these days!


----------



## Ahzari

Don't know if this has already been asked, but can anyone compare the sound of the WA6SE and WA22. I feel like the 6SE is more on the neutral/analytical side (even with warmer rectifiers and driver tubes), I'm wondering if the WA22 is warmer/more euphoric in comparison (or just in general)..?
   
  Also if I'm not going to be using the balanced inputs and outputs (at least right away) is the WA22 a worthy audio upgrade coming from the WA6SE? Or should I just save up more and go for something like the WA5LE..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Don't know if this has already been asked, but can anyone compare the sound of the WA6SE and WA22. I feel like the 6SE is more on the neutral/analytical side (even with warmer rectifiers and driver tubes), I'm wondering if the WA22 is warmer/more euphoric in comparison (or just in general)..?
> 
> Also if I'm not going to be using the balanced inputs and outputs (at least right away) is the WA22 a worthy audio upgrade coming from the WA6SE? Or should I just save up more and go for something like the WA5LE..


 
   
  +1 i would also like to see the WA6SE and the WA22 compare..for me imo i rather go for the WA5/or LE and start preparing BOXES of Instant Noodle to get my next WOO..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Don't know if this has already been asked, but can anyone compare the sound of the WA6SE and WA22. I feel like the 6SE is more on the neutral/analytical side (even with warmer rectifiers and driver tubes), I'm wondering if the WA22 is warmer/more euphoric in comparison (or just in general)..?
> 
> Also if I'm not going to be using the balanced inputs and outputs (at least right away) is the WA22 a worthy audio upgrade coming from the WA6SE? Or should I just save up more and go for something like the WA5LE..


 
   
  I've owned the _6 Special Edition_ and have heard the WA22 in Balanced mode and single-ended mode. In my view, I would not do the '22' single-ended, as you'd be using only one-half of the amplifier. Same situation I faced when I auditioned the MHDT Balanced Havana - wanted it but there was no advantage to SE mode and cost more; would only engage half the DAC.
   
  I found the Balanced '22' to have a bit more punch with the extra voltage coming in, and the power/driver tube compliment made it a bit more dreamy; euphonic. And both the amps had the Woo house sound and I could live with both... love 'em both! If it were me, I'd skip the WA22 with no plans to operate balanced. 
   
  Then there's the WA5/LE. A whole 'nuther breed with a price tag and operating costs to match! Also something to consider is commissioning a custom built amp. Or hot-rod the one you got.


----------



## grokit

ahzari said:


> Don't know if this has already been asked, but can anyone compare the sound of the WA6SE and WA22. I feel like the 6SE is more on the neutral/analytical side (even with warmer rectifiers and driver tubes),* I'm wondering if the WA22 is warmer/more euphoric in comparison (or just in general)..?*
> 
> Also if I'm not going to be using the balanced inputs and outputs (at least right away) is the WA22 a worthy audio upgrade coming from the WA6SE? Or should I just save up more and go for something like the WA5LE..




Yep, the WA22 is Woo's most euphonic amp, and the only one to earn the term _surreal_ in that department on Woo's amplifier comparison chart.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yep, the WA22 is Woo's most euphonic amp, and the only one to earn the term _surreal_ in that department on Woo's amplifier comparison chart.


 
   
  Does my use of the word_ dreamy_ count?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yep, the WA22 is Woo's most euphonic amp, and the only one to earn the term _surreal_ in that department on Woo's amplifier comparison chart.


 
   
  thats why i want it!!
   
  lol i don't even listen to my WA6-SE because i just like my T1/WA2 way too much. the only time i put the wa6-se on is when i use my d7k or grado.
   
  i know the WA2 is pretty euphonic in nature, i can only imagine how much better the WA22 must be.


----------



## Silent One

Dubstep Girl buys WA22... _gets dreamy. _





 Yeah, I can see that!


----------



## Ahzari

Hmmm.. Food for thought, thanks Silent One and grokit.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Hmmm.. Food for thought, thanks Silent One and grokit.


 
   
  Your new signature is looking right nice, Ahzari. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Can't wait to hear the TH900 paired with a Woo... or even my own amps!


----------



## Earrat

All of my 6FD7 tubes showed up today, but I can't listen to them until I get new capacitors . So tempting to just try them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





earrat said:


> All of my 6FD7 tubes showed up today, but I can't listen to them until I get new capacitors . So tempting to just try them.


 
   
  You find any DIY help yet? What caps would you like to feature?


----------



## San Raal

CV181 tubes are in the WA5 now, working from home today so plenty of time to let these guy's burn in with the GZ34's and Fleetwood Mac.
   
  Ear is still a little sore but getting better thankfully! Still a little muffled, I thought when I plugged the Mullard's in, one channel was quieter than the other, until I swapped the headphone around!


----------



## Earrat

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You find any DIY help yet? What caps would you like to feature?


 
   
  No DIY people yet, but I did find a place that will do it for me, I just don't know if I want to pay the fee(85$ I believe), lol. I'm going to get the http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/EET-ED2D471CA/P11614-ND/483212 , and I tracked down some black gate N 16v470 that I will probably get as well. Would you do the same?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





earrat said:


> No DIY people yet, but I did find a place that will do it for me, I just don't know if I want to pay the fee(85$ I believe), lol. I'm going to get the http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/EET-ED2D471CA/P11614-ND/483212 , and I tracked down some black gate N 16v470 that I will probably get as well. Would you do the same?


 
   
  I am adventurous but have not worked on internals yet. I'd be open to having it done though.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your new signature is looking right nice, Ahzari.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you Silent One! its really really hard not to want the TH900s if you have ever been a fan of the D7000s. I always loved my Denons and these were the most natural upgrade, the price is definitely steep but the way I see it, if you can sell some audio equipment you see this replacing (as I did) - its worth it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  With the 6SE the TH900 sound great, the bass is remarkable/even better than the famed LCD3 and Signature Pros in that area (at least to my ears), but the treble and mids seem more neutral, not as liquid as I was hoping, but I feel that may be my amp. the 6SE has always been pretty neutral with all my headphones. Hence my questions about the WA22 and WA5LE, not that I can afford either right now, but maybe I can save up in the coming months.. and here I thought the Fostex would satiate my spending appetite for a while...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thank you Silent One! its really really hard not to want the TH900s if you have ever been a fan of the D7000s. I always loved my Denons and these were the most natural upgrade, the price is definitely steep but the way I see it, if you can sell some audio equipment you see this replacing (as I did) - its worth it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Currently sitting in a room full of girls - Faye Wong, Sammi Cheng, Karen Mok, Gladys Knight, Vanessa-Mae, Soraya... D7000's making it right! Well, on my budget anyway. With patience (and a job) I'll bring those Fostex home later this year hopefully.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently sitting in a room full of girls - Faye Wong, Sammi Cheng, Karen Mok, Gladys Knight, Vanessa-Mae, Soraya... D7000's making it right! Well, on my budget anyway. With patience (and a job) I'll bring those Fostex home later this year hopefully.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


>


 
   
  My backup USAF-596 (NOS 1956) arrived yesterday. I set out last night to use the listening session for burn-in. Got so wrapped up in hearing these fantastique females perform, I forgot to install the rectifier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe Friday night...


----------



## jc9394

Wow, SO you still up? Keeping the bay warm with your tubes?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Wow, SO you still up? Keeping the bay warm with your tubes?


 
   
  Can't go to bed until breakfast... and Karen Mok "I Will Be Fine" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  on volume 10!


----------



## musicman59

Hummm, Fleetwood Mac. My favorite band!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Hopefully they will mend their differences again and go back to the studio for one more new album as planned before Stevie extended her tour, again.
  BTW going to her concert next month.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





san raal said:


> CV181 tubes are in the WA5 now, working from home today so plenty of time to let these guy's burn in with the GZ34's and Fleetwood Mac.
> 
> Ear is still a little sore but getting better thankfully! Still a little muffled, I thought when I plugged the Mullard's in, one channel was quieter than the other, until I swapped the headphone around!


----------



## musicman59

I think you will liek it. I ordered my WA5-LE after listening to my T1 on Jack's demo WA5-LE.
   
  Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I have a T1 on the way, I am looking forward to seeing what it can do on the WA5.
> The HD800, while amazing in it's own right, wasn't quite for me, hopefully the T1 retains most of what I liked about the HD800 and shuffles the sound more towards were I like it.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I think you will liek it. I ordered my WA5-LE after listening to my T1 on Jack's demo WA5-LE.


 
   
  I hope so. It has arrived today, so as soon as I'm off work, I get to find out.
  Now I'm just waiting on some tubes in the mail.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





earrat said:


> No DIY people yet, but I did find a place that will do it for me, I just don't know if I want to pay the fee(85$ I believe), lol. I'm going to get the http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/EET-ED2D471CA/P11614-ND/483212 , and I tracked down some black gate N 16v470 that I will probably get as well. Would you do the same?


 
  Panasonic TSED caps have a good reputation, especially for value.


----------



## Loevhagen

Could some of the club members please post (or refer me to) some comparison to other well known solid state headphoneamps?
   
  I like the Woo products, but having read side up / down - I have a grip on the _relative_ differences between the Woo products - but not absolute (aka to other well known solid state amps).


----------



## obzilla

Um, so just received a Beyerdynamic T1 it has stupid gorgeous dumb synergy with the WA5...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			

























   
  This is.... SO MUCH FUN.


----------



## Loevhagen

A bit $-unbalanced-no?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> A bit $-unbalanced-no?


 
   
  No more than an LCD2 + Liquid Fire. Or a BHSE + 007.
  Is there a $ ratio that sounds better? I mean, should I get a more expensive headphone, or a cheaper amp to 'balance things out'?


----------



## Swatcsi

Hey all, so I think I'm going to order a WA5-LE at the end of the month and I have a couple questions. First off whats the ordering process like? Are the amps prebuilt or are they built upon ordering? If they are built upon ordering do we pay all at once or a certain percentage upfront, then the rest later. Secondly, since I'm new to tubes, how long do they usually last, and whats the cost to replace them?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Hey all, so I think I'm going to order a WA5-LE at the end of the month and I have a couple questions. First off whats the ordering process like? Are the amps prebuilt or are they built upon ordering? If they are built upon ordering do we pay all at once or a certain percentage upfront, then the rest later. Secondly, since I'm new to tubes, how long do they usually last, and whats the cost to replace them?


 
   
  I own one Woo, and have owned another in the past, though the only think I ever bought directly from them was a stand... the ordering process is simple, you add the item to your basket and pay when you check out.
   
  They are all built to order, so you should contact them if you want a quote for a more accurate build time. Expect at least a couple weeks though, especially for the big stuff. Maybe Jack would let you break off payments, you'd have to ask him.
   
  Tubes generally last thousands to 10s of thousands of hours if they don't have any kind of issues. Tubes cost between $5 and $5,000 each. It *really* depends on what you are after. I've been reading about and investigating and researching them for months and months, and it is still a bit overwhelming.
  I am kitting my WA5 out with Sophias, which are pretty good, but not in the eagle's nest of tubes, I have a whole replacement set coming and I paid about $600.


----------



## Silent One

Since you're going to visit the homepage anyway.... wooaudio.com  There, you'll find your amp is built to order. And your order will not be completed until you pay in full. Tube life is like running water, it varies. And will depend on the particular amp it is placed in and how you operate said amp.


----------



## xinque

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Um, so just received a Beyerdynamic T1 it has stupid gorgeous dumb synergy with the WA5...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Same combination I've been using too, though the LCD3 has me a bit curious.  Wonder if they'd compliment a T1 well or not really worth owning both.  Anyone have an opinion?  Hoping I can try one at a meet sometime.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Same combination I've been using too, though the LCD3 has me a bit curious.  Wonder if they'd compliment a T1 well or not really worth owning both.  Anyone have an opinion?  Hoping I can try one at a meet sometime.


 
  I have the same question. I do have an LCD2. I love having both.
  I previously had the HD800 was a really nice can, but not 'lively(?)' enough for me, the T1 brings to the table what the HD800 lacked for me.
   
  The LCD2 is a very nice earthy phone and capable, while distinctly different, compliment phone. But like you, I keep looking to the LCD3. In the next few weeks I should have a pair over for audition as another headfier wants to try out my WA5. I'll definitely report back, and surely he will too, once we've had a good listen.


----------



## Swatcsi

Thanks for the replies guys, when I'm ready to order I'll contact Woo Audio, anything I should take into consideration before ordering?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, when I'm ready to order I'll contact Woo Audio, anything I should take into consideration before ordering?


 
   
  If you're getting a WA5/LE, make sure you have a strong rack (and back). If you have weak shelves it will sag them. Both units together weigh 75lbs.
  Shipping up to this side of border is pricey too, so prepare for that.
   
  What kind of source are you going to feed it? It's a top end amp, so you want a capable source.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Um, so just received a Beyerdynamic T1 it has stupid gorgeous dumb synergy with the WA5...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I told you you will like them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I have never heard my T1 sounding better than with my WA5-LE. I like it with all my collection of headphones but in general it matches better with high impedance headphones.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, when I'm ready to order I'll contact Woo Audio, anything I should take into consideration before ordering?


 
   
  I've own the WA5-LE for almost 2 years. When I ordered it it took about 6 weeks to get here but mine has all the electronic upgrades and special wiring ( sent the wire to Jack to use instead of the stock) so I don't know if that increased the lead time.
   
  If I was ordering now I would order the WA5 and not the LE. The only reason is to have the flexibility of the K1000 output port (it has more output power) to drive even better headphones like the HE-6 and if you ever want to get a pair of efficient speakers you can drive them out of the speaker tabs too.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I told you you will like them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Indeed, I've never heard the T1 on anything else, but wow, it really knocked my socks off.
   
  Have you ever used the K1000 output with the T1s? I seem to be having a slight issue with mine, or perhaps not. When plugged into the K1000 (4pin XLR) output, there is an enormous channel imbalance. Perhaps 90% right ear, 10% left ear. I'm wondering if perhaps that jack is only meant for the K1000s, and other phones will not behave normally or if something is up with my amp.
  It can't be the cable or the phones, they are terminated in 4pin XLR, and with a XLR to 1/4" adapter, they play normally through the high and low impedance jacks just fine. So the cable and phones are clearly fine.
   
  Any ideas?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Indeed, I've never heard the T1 on anything else, but wow, it really knocked my socks off.
> 
> Have you ever used the K1000 output with the T1s? I seem to be having a slight issue with mine, or perhaps not. When plugged into the K1000 (4pin XLR) output, there is an enormous channel imbalance. Perhaps 90% right ear, 10% left ear. I'm wondering if perhaps that jack is only meant for the K1000s, and other phones will not behave normally or if something is up with my amp.
> It can't be the cable or the phones, they are terminated in 4pin XLR, and with a XLR to 1/4" adapter, they play normally through the high and low impedance jacks just fine. So the cable and phones are clearly fine.
> ...


 
   
  Mine is the LE version so I don't have the K1000 output.
  Have you tried the headphones in other amplifier with 4 pin XLR output? 
  The first thing to check is the wiring of both connectors (headphones and amp). Here is the pinout scheme:
  1 - left channel +
 2 - left channel -
 3 - right channel +
 4 - right channel -
   
  If they are not like that they will sound strange. That happened to me with a cable with 2 3pin XLR. I was getting sound but really strange so I open the cable connectors and realize the manufacturer screwed up. I re-solder them properly and everything was fine.
   
  If the wiring looks fine then I would contact Jack.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Mine is the LE version so I don't have the K1000 output.
> Have you tried the headphones in other amplifier with 4 pin XLR output?
> The first thing to check is the wiring of both connectors (headphones and amp). Here is the pinout scheme:
> 1 - left channel +
> ...


 
   
  I don't have another amp with XLR out... but like I said, same headphone plugged into a 1/4th inch adapter (via that 4pin XLR termination) in the same amp, and different amps, sounds perfect.
   
  I'm a bit slow with the wiring, where exactly would I be looking for this? 
   
  No matter the case, I don't solder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I would need professional help if that is the case.
  I'll email Jack.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I don't have another amp with XLR out... but like I said, same headphone plugged into a 1/4th inch adapter (via that 4pin XLR termination) in the same amp, and different amps, sounds perfect.
> 
> I'm a bit slow with the wiring, where exactly would I be looking for this?
> 
> ...


 
   
  You will need to open the connectors. The pins are numbered and you will need to check that the right wire is soldered to the right pin.
   
  I understand what you mean about the adapter but for instance the Right - should be solder to the pin 4 and the Left - should be solder to the pin 2. If they are inverted you must likely will have a problem in balanced mode (not using the adapter) but when you go with the adapter both wires are routed to the same position in the TRS connector so it will work fine. That is why I was asking about trying the headphones in another amp with a 4 pin XLR output.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> You will need to open the connectors. The pins are numbered and you will need to check that the right wire is soldered to the right pin.
> 
> I understand what you mean about the adapter but for instance the Right - should be solder to the pin 4 and the Left - should be solder to the pin 2. If they are inverted you must likely will have a problem in balanced mode (not using the adapter) but when you go with the adapter both wires are routed to the same position in the TRS connector so it will work fine. That is why I was asking about trying the headphones in another amp with a 4 pin XLR output.


 
   
  OK, I will check that tonight when I get home. In the meantime I have emailed Jack.
  Thanks for the help!


----------



## San Raal

Have got the Fleetwood Mac Rumours album twin 45 on back order with my dealer, cant wait to get it and my modded mapletree phono stage!
   
  Ears still a bit dodgy, getting better thankfully but I really like the NOS CV181 improvements over the Shuggy CV181, its early days yet but the NOS have a better tone, fantastic bass, though the Shuggies I would say are slightly smoother on top. The way the Mullard's bring out the bass guitar on Duran Duran's "Rio" is something special.
   
  Current roll in the Woo5 is Taka 300B NOS Mullard CV181 and EML 5U4G mesh - very very nice combo.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Have got the Fleetwood Mac Rumours album twin 45 on back order with my dealer, cant wait to get it and my modded mapletree phono stage!
> 
> Ears still a bit dodgy, getting better thankfully but I really like the NOS CV181 improvements over the Shuggy CV181, its early days yet but the NOS have a better tone, fantastic bass, though the Shuggies I would say are slightly smoother on top. The way the Mullard's bring out the bass guitar on Duran Duran's "Rio" is something special.
> 
> Current roll in the Woo5 is Taka 300B NOS Mullard CV181 and EML 5U4G mesh - very very nice combo.


 
   
  I bet that Rumours 45 will be a killer. I have all the FM albums from the Buckingham/Nick era on High-Rez files and they sound awesome!
   
  What are those Taka 300B? How much are they?
  Right now I have my EML 300B Mesh, NOS Mullard ECC32 and USF 596. Also very nice. Sometimrs I roll in some TS BG/RP 6F8G and are also great.


----------



## Warpkitty

My WA2 arrived last week and I'm really enjoying it with the Senn HD600s. I want to try some different tubes and I've already ordered an RCA 6AS7G for cheap on eBay.
But before I go crazy I should ask you informed ones ...

Given a budget of no more than $100.00 what driver tube replacement would offer the greatest sonic change ? ... I've never experimented with tube rolling before so I'm really curious what this is all about and want a really big change from the stock JJ driver to hear the tube rolling difference.

Edit: Obligatory pic:


----------



## Silent One

Welcome, Warpkitty! No driver recommendations at this time but your amp is looking fabulous! And right at home next to the computer...


----------



## xinque

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I bet that Rumours 45 will be a killer. I have all the FM albums from the Buckingham/Nick era on High-Rez files and they sound awesome!
> 
> What are those Taka 300B? How much are they?
> Right now I have my EML 300B Mesh, NOS Mullard ECC32 and USF 596. Also very nice. Sometimrs I roll in some TS BG/RP 6F8G and are also great.


 

 I'm running the exact same tubes as San Raal is on my WA5.  Takatsuki switched their production line on the 300B this month.  Should be around USD 1400 for a matched pair from the first production run (assuming vendors that stock it haven't marked it up), USD 2000 for current production.  I have not seen any reviews for the current production tube yet though.


----------



## musicman59

Wow! Are they that much better than EML or EAT?


----------



## xinque

I'll roll the EML meshes back in to compare once I get some more hours on the Takatsuki, just to make the comparison fair.  Don't have golden ears and pretty terrible at describing sound, but yes they did sound better to me.  And that was when the tube was straight out of the box.  Stay tuned !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I believe San Raal used to run EML too, but that was before he had Mullard ECC32 and EML 5U4G.  Maybe he'll have something to add.
   
  So far the tube's gotten pretty good reviews from 6moons and the thread in the High-End forums.  I have no idea what a Western Electric sounds like and probably never will, but that comparison has been thrown out there.  Given how much 300Bs cost can't imagine there would be too many people out there reviewing them..


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





warpkitty said:


> My WA2 arrived last week and I'm really enjoying it with the Senn HD600s. I want to try some different tubes and I've already ordered an RCA 6AS7G for cheap on eBay.
> But before I go crazy I should ask you informed ones ...
> Given a budget of no more than $100.00 what driver tube replacement would offer the greatest sonic change ? ... I've never experimented with tube rolling before so I'm really curious what this is all about and want a really big change from the stock JJ driver to hear the tube rolling difference.
> Edit: Obligatory pic:


 
   
  Honestly, for $100-120, your best bet first would be to upgrade the power tubes to the Sylvania 7236 (or better still the TungSol 5998 or 7236). I always found this made the biggest improvement with the WA2 when I owned it. You could worry about the stock driver tubes later.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





xinque said:


> I'll roll the EML meshes back in to compare once I get some more hours on the Takatsuki, just to make the comparison fair.  Don't have golden ears and pretty terrible at describing sound, but yes they did sound better to me.  And that was when the tube was straight out of the box.  Stay tuned !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I sold my EML's just recently to pay for the Mullard CV181's and GZ34's but I agree with Xinque here, the Taka's sounded more engaging right out of the box, they have a sublime sweetness and seduction that's hard to live without. I did notice a slight shrillness for the first 25 hours or so but that quickly died away and was left with just fantastic music.
   
  I believe there are a few in the high end section that may have the opportunity to compare NOS to Takatsuki 300b in time. One member recently purchased the STC tubes 4300A I think who is also considering Taka's. but with the new model coming out they'll be Taka "old" and Taka "new" production to throw into the mix as well.


----------



## rosgr63

If anybody is looking for Philips GZ34 metal or brown base let me know, I maybe able to help.
  I am not selling any, a friend is.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gratz on buying a WA2
   
   
  i enjoy my WA2 with sylvania 7236 quite alot. the ts 5998 are good too but hard to find


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> gratz on buying a WA2
> 
> 
> i enjoy my WA2 with sylvania 7236 quite alot. the ts 5998 are good too but hard to find


 
   
  Even though my Reference LaFigaro 339 is sold i still have 2 pairs NOS 5998...who knows when ill need them...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ nice. they're only gonna go up in price too.
   
   
   
  listening to the first Sister Hazel album on my HD 800s/WA2 right now, just awesome.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ nice. they're only gonna go up in price too.
> 
> 
> 
> listening to the first Sister Hazel album on my HD 800s/WA2 right now, just awesome.


 
   
  That's what i'm waiting for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...


----------



## preproman

I have a question about the Woo amps and DAC's..  Would a tube DAC be better than a solid state DAC?  Who has Woo amps paired with Tube DAC's?  What can I expect with this combo?


----------



## Warpkitty

Hey thanks for the welcomes and tips! I'll try and hunt down some of the 7236 tubes ... No love for the RCA 6AS7G?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I have a question about the Woo amps and DAC's..  Would a tube DAC be better than a solid state DAC?  Who has Woo amps paired with Tube DAC's?  What can I expect with this combo?


 
   
  I'll return after dinner with an expanded reply. To answer your second question, I have. But, which Woo is this being aimed at?


----------



## grokit

I like to mix and match solid state and tube components, personally. Don't like having two SS or tube components in a row, I feel it is better when they alternate. So for a Woo amp/preamp I choose a solid state DAC.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'll return after dinner with an expanded reply. To answer your second question, I have. But, which Woo is this being aimed at?


 
  I'm really looking at the WA22.  I have a few SS amps, and I never thought about getting a tube DAC - and you don't really see that combo as the norm.  So I was just thinking the same way with tube amp/dac's.  Got a tube amp - get a tube DAC.  it's the tube sound that your going for - correct.  With the SS amps.  It;s the SS sound and current that your going for so a SS DAC seems like the right thing to do.
   
  Then you have the folks like grokit - who like to mix and match components.  Don't see this to often but as I can see - it does happen.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I'm really looking at the WA22.  I have a few SS amps, and I never thought about getting a tube DAC - and you don't really see that combo as the norm.  So I was just thinking the same way with tube amp/dac's.  Got a tube amp - get a tube DAC.  it's the tube sound that your going for - correct.  With the SS amps.  It;s the SS sound and current that your going for so a SS DAC seems like the right thing to do.
> 
> Then you have the folks like grokit - who like to mix and match components.  Don't see this to often but as I can see - it does happen.


 
   
  Appreciate your patience. Formerly, I owned a WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition_ and brought in the Mhdt Labs Balanced Havana DAC for a couple of months to play with. I just saw your antenna go up, so let me jump in and explain real quick. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had plans to go Balanced with the WA22, otherwise the Havana SE would have served my interests.
   
  I too, had the Rule of thumb presented to me when looking at the possibilities of mixing/matching... and often! Didn't know so many members were concerned about what I was getting into, when sharing _"I think my next DAC is going to be the Balanced Havana." _That such thoughts would stir such passions and opinions with a vengeance... who knew?! My own reaction to these reactions was_ "Audio is suppose to be fun. Who doesn't like adventure?!"_
   
  So, what did I find? That the pairing was fun and musically engaging. While I did prefer the W4S DAC I have now, I would have easily been satisfied had I bought the Havana to go with the Woo first. What's more, in my view the _6 Special Edition _doesn't sound overly warm, lush, euphonic and dreamy. Nor does it sound hard hitting and cold like a solid state offering. Rather, right down the middle and definitely dynamic! Also, my vintage 1977 Pioneer SX-650 is about as warm as the Woo. And hooked it up to the Balanced Havana as well. Rule of thumbs can help get you to the stadium, but not always to your seat by Row & Section Number.
   
  The two made good dance partners without tripping over each other or stepping on toes. However, the '22' is much more euphonic than my former amp, so the best advice I could give is to find a dealer that will allow for an audition or 30 day return. You'll need more time - in my view A/B'ing simply doesn't work. One's emotions and other factors come in to play. Meanwhile, you'd be wise to peruse the Havana thread as well. There are Woo owners inside who like the pairing.


----------



## grokit

preproman said:


> Then you have the folks like grokit - who like to mix and match components.  Don't see this to often but as I can see - it does happen.




Haha I even have a couple of tube stages laying around just to insert between SS components if I deem it beneficial.

edit: I suppose I'm going after a hybrid sound, the best of both worlds. Or as I like to think of it, achieving a balance.


----------



## Silent One

You'd have thought something was going to die or blow up inside my listening room, based on comments received until U.S. Postal came through.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

been falling in love with my HD 800/WA2 combo, the T1 don't get as much listening time anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and my LCD-2 has been almost completely forgotten...
   
  the grados and pro 900s are kinda neglected too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  - sold my k701 also.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I like to mix and match solid state and tube components, personally. Don't like having two SS or tube components in a row, I feel it is better when they alternate. So for a Woo amp/preamp I choose a solid state DAC.


 
   
  I'm currently working this philosophy with my DAC, although its tube all the way with my TT setup. My preference is to always have a tube section somewhere in the chain. Have used a MAD tube headphone amp as a preamp on a SS speaker rig before to help improve musicality on a rather clinical sounding rig but ofc with the muscle and drive you get with SS.
   
  That said driving the one time we've entertained using the WA5 with speakers and a tube TT rig, the sound was magical.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I'm really looking at the WA22.  I have a few SS amps, and I never thought about getting a tube DAC - and you don't really see that combo as the norm.  So I was just thinking the same way with tube amp/dac's.  Got a tube amp - get a tube DAC.  it's the tube sound that your going for - correct.  With the SS amps.  It;s the SS sound and current that your going for so a SS DAC seems like the right thing to do.
> 
> Then you have the folks like grokit - who like to mix and match components.  Don't see this to often but as I can see - it does happen.


 
  Depending on your budget, I really like my PWD MKII.  IMHO, I think they are perfect match.


----------



## grokit

san raal said:


> I'm currently working this philosophy with my DAC, although its tube all the way with my TT setup. My preference is to always have a tube section somewhere in the chain. Have used a MAD tube headphone amp as a preamp on a SS speaker rig before to help improve musicality on a rather clinical sounding rig but ofc with the muscle and drive you get with SS.
> 
> That said driving the one time we've entertained using the WA5 with speakers and a tube TT rig, the sound was magical.




Tube TT rig? Do tell 

I will be inserting a tube stage in between a phono and its SS preamp soon, maybe another one between the preamp and the headamp perhaps, or perhaps the circuit will go through a HTR first. 

With the WA22 going through its transformation into a preamp and the resulting system consolidation I have a couple of tube stages to play around with. Also I re-located my TT as I have a vintage Technics SL1200 Mk2 incoming for my Woo rig (matching silver!).


----------



## MorbidToaster

Woah woah what?
   
  Also, I'd like to end up with a full tube analog set up as well. Vinyl has always been a more 'musical' format for me and I consider tubes in that category as well (of course there are more analytical tubes too). If you're going for the most engaging musical sound you can get and not necessarily the most precise, I'd go tubes all the way. 
   
  It's a lot of fun.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Tube TT rig? Do tell
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Warpkitty

A little headphone break. Listening to some weird Buchla 100 music from the 1960's through my genelec's. This is a very nice preamp too!

http://archive.org/details/JNN042-HMGS-MynameisMariettaCashman

So I guess I got to cough up the dough for the Sylnania 7236 but at the moment I find it hard to improve upon this!!!


----------



## stevekwc

--deleted--
   
  I apologize for the note.


----------



## Silent One

-- deleted --
   
  Nuthin' to see here. Move along.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





stevekwc said:


> --deleted--
> 
> I apologize for the note.


 
   
  Again, I think you meant well. And I meant simply to encourage sensitivity when posting. Hope my intent was not misconstrued. There was certainly no need to delete the post, as you're still seeking adapters. In my view, you could have easily edited your post since there's no need to bring his health status in to the matter. Hopefully, others reading your post can reply with the info you seek.
   
  In fact, a number of us are seeking adapters. So, if you find a source, please share.
   
  Kind regards,
   
  Silent One


----------



## Silent One

To those following this outstanding thread - WAAOU:
   
  It's quite possible I may have overreacted in making a point. Have since sent stevekwc a follow-up PM to clear things up. Now, where's that fast moving momentum this thread is notorious for?


----------



## grokit

morbidtoaster said:


> Woah woah what?
> 
> Also, I'd like to end up with a full tube analog set up as well. Vinyl has always been a more 'musical' format for me and I consider tubes in that category as well (of course there are more analytical tubes too). If you're going for the most engaging musical sound you can get and not necessarily the most precise, I'd go tubes all the way.
> 
> It's a lot of fun.




I like a bit of solid-state in the chain, for me it keeps the sound from meandering into _full-blown, uncontrolled euphonia_; keeps the sound _on-track_ and _in-balance_.

So to speak


----------



## MorbidToaster

grokit said:


> I like a bit of solid-state in the chain, for me it keeps the sound from meandering into _full-blown, uncontrolled euphonia_; keeps the sound _on-track_ and _in-balance_.
> So to speak




What was that WA22 preamp nonsense? Want.


----------



## grokit

morbidtoaster said:


> What was that WA22 preamp nonsense? Want.




Woo Audio is doing it, they are adding a set of balanced outputs and a switch on the back plus a load plug for the TRS out to keep the transformer busy when in pre mode.


----------



## MorbidToaster

grokit said:


> Woo Audio is doing it, they are adding a set of balanced outputs and a switch on the back plus a load plug for the TRS out to keep the transformer busy when in pre mode.




When!? Where!? Can I buy one yet? How much?

I feel like I should know this.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I like a bit of solid-state in the chain, for me it keeps the sound from meandering into _full-blown, uncontrolled euphonia_; keeps the sound _on-track_ and _in-balance_.
> So to speak


 
   
  I really like the whole meandering thing illustrated above.


----------



## cacatalysis

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> What was that WA22 preamp nonsense? Want.


 
  I have a one-year old WA22 (shipped on April 12, 2011) in excellent condition with a preamp XLR out installed by Jack when I ordered the amp.  The amp is available for sale if you are interested.  Please e-mail me if you want more information.  I also have the original box.  Other than the stock tubes, I also have some of the best tubes for WA22.


----------



## grokit

Woo charges $400 plus shipping for the upgrade, it will be the same as cacatalysis' in this respect.


----------



## MorbidToaster

grokit said:


> Woo charges $400 plus shipping for the upgrade, it will be the same as cacatalysis' in this respect.




If I'd known that I'd've been shooting for a WA22 a long time ago. Now with the Leben on he mind I'll have to think about it.


----------



## grokit

Jack's pretty flexible, mine was modded in the past to substitute a second set of XLR balanced inputs in place of the RCA SE inputs.


----------



## MorbidToaster

grokit said:


> Jack's pretty flexible, mine was modded in the past to substitute a second set of XLR balanced inputs in place of the RCA SE inputs.




Wow...Considering the Phono stage I want has balanced outs and so does my DAC that's another good thing to know...

Might have to shoot Jack a line. Just ordered one of their double stands and I've had my eye on an amp of theirs for awhile now.


----------



## grokit

Are you looking into the GCPH? Not too many balanced phono stages out there. My Radius J33 has XLR outs bit they're mic level.


----------



## MorbidToaster

grokit said:


> Are you looking into the GCPH? Not too many balanced phono stages out there. My Radius J33 has XLR outs bit they're mic level.




Simaudio 310LP actually. Simple and a 20 year warranty doesn't hurt. 

Edit: That GCPH looks like it's at a good price point though...Decisions...


----------



## Eee Pee

There's modded GCPH's out there, also.  
   
  http://www.10audio.com/psaud_gcph.htm

 And Cullen.


----------



## MorbidToaster

That Underwood GCPH looks great...Hmmm...
   
  Still have months before I need to buy one so I'll have plenty of time to indecisive.
   
  Quote: 





eee pee said:


> There's modded GCPH's out there, also.
> 
> http://www.10audio.com/psaud_gcph.htm
> 
> And Cullen.


----------



## driver 8

Got my FedEx tracking# earlier today; looks like I'll have my WA22 on Wednesday 
   
  Wait time was 20 days, if any prospective buyers need a point of reference.


----------



## grokit

Interesting that they discuss using a step-up with the GCPH, I've been driving the .25 mV DL-103R with it and although it needs every bit of it, the GCPH seems to push it fine.


----------



## orrb_05

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Got my FedEx tracking# earlier today; looks like I'll have my WA22 on Wednesday
> 
> Wait time was 20 days, if any prospective buyers need a point of reference.


 
  I just received my WA6SE on 5/12, and it shipped exactly 20 days after I placed my order - built like a tank and sounds great even with fresh/stock tubes


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Got my FedEx tracking# earlier today; looks like I'll have my WA22 on Wednesday
> 
> Wait time was 20 days, if any prospective buyers need a point of reference.


 
   
  Congrats! on the tracking #. Though, wait times will always vary throughout the year.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I made a small tweak to my setup that has been rewarding for me so i thought id share. The picture below shows my setup from a few weeks ago, which uses my laptop and Audiophilleo2 usb/spdif converter as source. I recently picked up an iPad3 and, at a friend's request, tried an app called splashtop remote hd.
   
  It basically lets me have full control of my laptop using the iPad. So now I have closed my laptop and slid it into the third shelf down in my audio rack and totally out of the way, and gotten rid of the laptop stand as well. I'm now controlling foobar from my recliner with just my sleek iPad, which is sooo much nicer. In fact, I'm typing this post from my laptop via my iPad at the same time.
   
  Sound quality is just as good since the laptop and Audiophilleo2 are still fully controlling the sound. I know this isn't a secret, but thought it was worth sharing since so many of us use computer setups at least in part. This would awesome for a living room speaker setup.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Congrats on the new amp, and welcome to the club! It seems like the WA6se ship quite a bit faster than the WA22 in general. I received my WA22 about two months ago after a six week wait. It felt LONG. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





orrb_05 said:


> I just received my WA6SE on 5/12, and it shipped exactly 20 days after I placed my order - built like a tank and sounds great even with fresh/stock tubes


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I made a small tweak to my setup that has been rewarding for me so i thought id share. The picture below shows my setup from a few weeks ago, which uses my laptop and Audiophilleo2 usb/spdif converter as source. I recently picked up an iPad3 and, at a friend's request, tried an app called splashtop remote hd.
> 
> It basically lets me have full control of my laptop using the iPad. So now I have closed my laptop and slid it into the third shelf down in my audio rack and totally out of the way, and gotten rid of the laptop stand as well. I'm now controlling foobar from my recliner with just my sleek iPad, which is sooo much nicer. In fact, I'm typing this post from my laptop via my iPad at the same time.
> 
> Sound quality is just as good since the laptop and Audiophilleo2 are still fully controlling the sound. I know this isn't a secret, but thought it was worth sharing since so many of us use computer setups at least in part. This would awesome for a living room speaker setup.


 
   
  This is great to hear, good move Sid-Fi! Some moons later when you're feeling at once restless and adventurous, you can roll in Linux with MPD/GMPC. And put your server and client on the same machine or two different machines and use your iPhone/iPad to manipulate...that's such a bad term, to navigate your playback. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And stream ALL over the house, ALL over the neighborhood.


----------



## keph

I just made myself a longer 1.2m Umbilical power cord..Using a 7x18AWG industrial copper wire...haven't heard any differences between the stock one though..


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Tube TT rig? Do tell
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oooh a SL1200 Mk2, I thought they were used in the DJ scene for mixing given their pitch controls. Or do I have that mixed up with a different model? I have a Michelle Orbe in black to match my rig, WA5 is in black along with DAC and all the other components! Maybe Ill post some pics proper when I ever get around to dusting my component shelving!!!!!
   
  My Phono stage aka TT rig is a Mapletree Ultra 4SE, stock they are great tube preamps, but the phono stage is somewhat lacking. However have had a whole bunch of tricks and mods applied to the little beast and it sounds great, very very easy to roll tubes and it takes 12V octal twin triodes too which saves big time on cost. 12SN7 TSRP cost a fraction of their 6V counterparts and sound the same!
   
  The preamp has mundorf silver in oil interstage coupling caps and mundorf tube caps in the PSU, Audionote tantalum resistors, as well as 12ax7 compatibility refitted over the 12sc7 (which sounded very underwhelming) Ive thrown far more money at it than its really worth, but its that piece of "cherished" gear one grows fond of and attached to!


----------



## keph

Can anyone help me out the list of parts to make a complete WA6SE MAXXED version..??
   
  Thank You


----------



## grokit

san raal said:


> Oooh a SL1200 Mk2, I thought they were used in the DJ scene for mixing given their pitch controls. Or do I have that mixed up with a different model? I have a Michelle Orbe in black to match my rig, WA5 is in black along with DAC and all the other components! Maybe Ill post some pics proper when I ever get around to dusting my component shelving!!!!!
> 
> My Phono stage aka TT rig is a Mapletree Ultra 4SE, stock they are great tube preamps, but the phono stage is somewhat lacking. However have had a whole bunch of tricks and mods applied to the little beast and it sounds great, very very easy to roll tubes and it takes 12V octal twin triodes too which saves big time on cost. 12SN7 TSRP cost a fraction of their 6V counterparts and sound the same!
> 
> The preamp has mundorf silver in oil interstage coupling caps and mundorf tube caps in the PSU, Audionote tantalum resistors, as well as 12ax7 compatibility refitted over the 12sc7 (which sounded very underwhelming) Ive thrown far more money at it than its really worth, but its that piece of "cherished" gear one grows fond of and attached to!




Yeah that's the one. Meh on the pitch controls for the most part, but combined with the strobe it makes for a nice way to fine-tune the speed. I picked it up for a good price, it looked and was described to be in fine shape, and it will hold its value in case I start saving for an "audiophile" TT again. And it's better than what I was using which wasn't bad and will stay in service.


----------



## ardilla

Just stumbled upon this. What is it? A WA22 prototype? (Posted 2009)
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/415713/official-march-21st-nyc-meet-thread/15#post_5541596


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just stumbled upon this. What is it? A WA22 prototype? (Posted 2009)
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/415713/official-march-21st-nyc-meet-thread/15#post_5541596


 
   
  WA4 if I'm not mistaken?
   
  EDIT. hmmm nope. WA2/22 prototype is a sound guess.


----------



## driver 8

I like the implementation of separate volume control for each channel, but I'm guessing that's why there's no 4-pin?


----------



## Xcalibur255

It may be the original prototype WA22.  The amp started out with 12AU7 driver tubes before they switched to the 6SN7 close to the release date.  Some of those parts are from the WA5 which they probably used because they were available.


----------



## obzilla

The glow of some freshly rolled Sophia Princess 300Bs in the WA5 and a fresh copy of the DSD Remaster of Beggars Banquet. The WA5 is *very* responsive to tube changes I can see. Wooooootastic.
   

   
  Why is it so hard to get music recorded at this level any more????


----------



## Silent One

obzilla, are you taking requests? "Sympathy For The Devil." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is your source for the Remasters, by the way?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Just stumbled upon this. What is it? A WA22 prototype? (Posted 2009)
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/415713/official-march-21st-nyc-meet-thread/15#post_5541596


 
   
   
  Try using the Wayback Machine (Internet Archive). I find a lot of gear no longer currently listed that way.
   
  Edit: After reading the impressions from the NYC Meet - 2009, Jack brought the spanking brand new WA22 out to play.
  Edit2:  Jack just wrote to confirm the prototype status - still sitting in the Lab @ WooAudio.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> obzilla, are you taking requests? "Sympathy For The Devil."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  T'was playing when I posted, that and Street Fighting Man. 
   
  In 2002, the studio catalogue was rereleased from the DSD remasters (presumably the ones they did for the SACD version of the catalogue).
  I have no idea if it is any better or worse than other releases, (I have about 9 Stones CDs, they all come from the same release labeled "DSD Remastered"). They should be readily available.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> T'was playing when I posted, that and Street Fighting Man.
> 
> In 2002, the studio catalogue was rereleased from the DSD remasters (presumably the ones they did for the SACD version of the catalogue).
> I have no idea if it is any better or worse than other releases, (I have about 9 Stones CDs, they all come from the same release labeled "DSD Remastered"). They should be readily available.


 
   
   





  So broke from this hobby, I might have to shout "Gimme Shelter."


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So broke from this hobby, I might have to shout "Gimme Shelter."


 
   
  I understand!!!
   
  Here is an $8.50 ebay special that should cheer up your day and leave your wallet intact. Really really well produced.. "Iranian / Folk / World / Modern" (I guess) music. The strings and the girls voice are to die for.
  Go on ebay, get this album, you'll thank me. Any doubts, check for the track "Ghazal" and have a listen on youtube or whatever.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I understand!!!
> 
> Here is an $8.50 ebay special that should cheer up your day and leave your wallet intact. Really really well produced.. "Iranian / Folk / World / Modern" (I guess) music. The strings and the girls voice are to die for.
> Go on ebay, get this album, you'll thank me. Any doubts, check for the track "Ghazal" and have a listen on youtube or whatever.


 
   
   
  Have read a lot ink about them in the past few months. Will check 'em out! Also, as BIG as the Rolling Stones' catalog is, can you believe I only like 5 songs? Quantity aside, I want the best quality of those 5 songs!!!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Just logged on to Amazon and ordered with 1 click, gotta love that. Thanks for the suggestion - sounds nice. I am looking forward to checking it out without previewing at all.

We really need a WAAOU music discussion thread. It seems like I have never heard a lot of the stuff that is brought up in his thread.



obzilla said:


> I understand!!!
> 
> Here is an $8.50 ebay special that should cheer up your day and leave your wallet intact. Really really well produced.. "Iranian / Folk / World / Modern" (I guess) music. The strings and the girls voice are to die for.
> Go on ebay, get this album, you'll thank me. Any doubts, check for the track "Ghazal" and have a listen on youtube or whatever.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Just logged on to Amazon and ordered with 1 click, gotta love that. Thanks for the suggestion - sounds nice. I am looking forward to checking it out without previewing at all.
> We really need a WAAOU music discussion thread. It seems like I have never heard a lot of the stuff that is brought up in his thread.


 
   
  I hope you like it! It's always refreshing to get something you haven't heard before, or that you mightn't have come across otherwise.
  If you enjoy it, they have another disc, 9 Heavens, which is good but I like this one better. There is also another disc due out very soon. Cheers!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks obzilla. I'll drop impressions on it after I get it and check it out. By the way, nice avatar hehe.



obzilla said:


> I hope you like it! It's always refreshing to get something you haven't heard before, or that you mightn't have come across otherwise.
> If you enjoy it, they have another disc, 9 Heavens, which is good but I like this one better. There is also another disc due out very soon. Cheers!


----------



## Ahzari

Niyaz is awesome! saw them in concert a few times and had a chance to meet them ), we almost had them come for a fundraiser a few years back (really nice ppl and very interesting mix of music). - great CD.
   
  Quote:


obzilla said:


> I understand!!!
> 
> Here is an $8.50 ebay special that should cheer up your day and leave your wallet intact. Really really well produced.. "Iranian / Folk / World / Modern" (I guess) music. The strings and the girls voice are to die for.
> Go on ebay, get this album, you'll thank me. Any doubts, check for the track "Ghazal" and have a listen on youtube or whatever.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If you want to hear a revelatory version of "Beggars Banquet," try the HDTracks 24/88.2 version.  I've been listening to "Sympathy" for more than 30 years.  When I first played this version through my Musical Fidelity M1 I heard parts I had never heard before. Everything from HDTracks is not great, but this is superb! I'm about to play it through my brand new Woo WA2.
  Gotta go now... ;^)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks obzilla. I'll drop impressions on it after I get it and check it out. *By the way, nice avatar hehe.*


 
   
   






 Talk about appropriate!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> If you want to hear a revelatory version of *"Beggars Banquet," try the HDTracks 24/88.2 version*.  I've been listening to "Sympathy" for more than 30 years.  When I first played this version through my Musical Fidelity M1 I heard parts I had never heard before. Everything from HDTracks is not great, but this is superb! I'm about to play it through my brand new Woo WA2.
> Gotta go now... ;^)


 
   
  My "Hot Rocks" is from HDTracks @ 88.2 kHz.  A very expensive purchase for me since I only tend to play "Sympathy For The Devil" & "Gimme Shelter." Just not a big Stones fan. But "Sympathy" for me is the fav for them! And I like it @ 24/88.2kHz!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Just logged on to Amazon and ordered with 1 click, gotta love that. Thanks for the suggestion - sounds nice. I am looking forward to checking it out without previewing at all.
> *We really need a WAAOU music discussion thread. It seems like I have never heard a lot of the stuff that is brought up in his thread.*


 
   
   
  We try to 'neak in a few listings without going to far off topic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As long as we don't get too happy, I suppose!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


>


 
   
  I can hear it in your writing - bringing the Fostex home to play with your WooAudio amp has been very satisfying. On a separate note, I really believe you should submit your new avatar to Fostex - Japan. In the event something comes out of it, I'll choose to remain silent and let you have the credit.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I can hear it in your writing - bringing the Fostex home to play with your WooAudio amp has been very satisfying. On a separate note, I really believe you should submit your new avatar to Fostex - Japan. In the event something comes out of it, I'll choose to remain silent and let you have the credit.


 
  lol, it's ok - I'll share some of the credit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  and yes, the Fostex are increasingly growing on me, they don't have a initial - wow - factor, but they are addictive both to listen to and just look at


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> lol, it's ok - I'll share some of the credit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Personally, when it comes to gear I don't want to be wowed up front! Like a great Gumbo left on the stove top to simmer, you'll enjoy it soon enough. I want to be drawn, lured and enticed. Want to get beyond the initial signature and calling of the gear. And like the Gumbo that slowly permeates throughout your home while its doing its thang, get to know it slowly at increasingly deeper levels.
   
_A subtle, lasting and lingering experience - one that I'll know, one than I'll long for. _


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Personally, when it comes to gear I don't want to be wowed up front! Like a great Gumbo left on the stove top to simmer, you'll enjoy it soon enough. I want to be drawn, lured and enticed. Want to get beyond the initial signature and calling of the gear. And like the Gumbo that slowly permeates throughout your home while its doing its thang, get to know it slowly at increasingly deeper levels.
> 
> _A subtle, lasting and lingering experience - one that I'll know, one than I'll long for. _


 
  I've learned to appreciate the journey and forgo the desire to be "wow'ed" so completely agree in that regard.. I like your new avatar btw


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks obzilla. I'll drop impressions on it after I get it and check it out. By the way, nice avatar hehe.


 
   
  I find embracing the ridiculosity of this hobby helps fend off the self judgment I ought to incur for the amount of dollars this hobby regularly fleeces me for.
   
  Kind of like going into a casino. Know you are there for entertainment only, know that you cannot win and are going to lose, and know what you are willing to lose before you begin to play. 
   
  It helps a lot


----------



## driver 8

Just got mine a little while ago and took tons of pics, which I'll put up later, but first, if I may cross-post from the LCD3 thread:
   
   
  Quote: 





> http://www.head-fi.org/t/575751/new-audeze-lcd3/3090#post_8050056
> 
> Is this still the only known method of getting the stock LCD3 4-pin cable out of the WA22?  I really don't want to take mine apart.


 

   
  This is kind of infuriating since Woo Audio is an authorized Audez'e dealer.  You'd think that would mean they have enough experience with the product to know that it can get stuck in the output they use.  I emailed about them about it, but figured you fine folks might know something.  Well, I'm mad at Neutrik, at the very least, who designed both the male and female ends at play here.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Just got mine a little while ago and took tons of pics, which I'll put up later, but first, if I may cross-post from the LCD3 thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The WA22 existed long before the LCD3. Just sayin...


----------



## haarvi

New thread started about the filter choke revision to the WES.
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/610385/woo-wes-revision


----------



## driver 8

God, I can't even take it apart because one of the screws holding the output in place has a messed up head.


----------



## preproman

Need to pick a DAC for the WA22.  Down to these two:  Havana Balanced DAC or the Audio-gd Reference 7.1  Does anyone have any experience with any of these DAC's with the WA22?


----------



## driver 8

Alright, I found another screw driver that played better with the aforementioned screw and managed to get the plug out.
   
  Here's an unboxing album I made: http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/view/id/650018/user_id/123792


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Alright, I found another screw driver that played better with the aforementioned screw and managed to get the plug out.
> 
> Here's an unboxing album I made: http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/view/id/650018/user_id/123792


 
   
  NIIIIICE setup man!
   
  Beautiful in every aspect.


----------



## driver 8

Thanks!
   
  Haven't had much of a chance to listen yet, unfortunately.


----------



## Seamaster

Wow, three years down the road. This thread still going strong


----------



## Seamaster

I still enjoy my WA-22 SE every much, well with my stolen LCD-2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Wow, three years down the road. This thread still going strong


 
   
  I don't believe it! I don't think Clayton SF is gonna believe it either!!! Welcome back!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I still enjoy my WA-22 SE every much, well with my stolen LCD-2


 
   
  Just in Summer 2011, we were once again analyzing your WA22 exposed.... looking at all the audio goodness inside.


----------



## Seamaster

Dan, the owner of Modwright did some magical mod made the WA22 special edition sing. So far so good. Only Liquid Fire can match so far for the price


----------



## Silent One

In three years time, you could have gone from boat to yacht 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you should post new pix!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In three years time, you could have gone from boat to yacht
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  WA-22 stood the test of time very well and very flexible. There are not many amps can surpass this one (moded) for the money. Maybe Liquid Fire +LCD-3...sometimes


----------



## driver 8

Whoa, coming from a Lehmann BCL, the WA22 is several steps up in, well, everything.


----------



## grokit

seamaster said:


> I still enjoy my WA-22 SE every much, well with my stolen LCD-2




Welcome back, it was your WA22 that originally inspired me to get both the second balanced input and the balanced preamp output on mine.


----------



## keph

My new Umbilical power cable is amazing...i used the Neotech Teflon 18awg solid UPOCC conductor...Yesterday i also made a Umbilical power cable using an industrial 7x18awg copper wire but no noticeable sound differences..But the Neotech brings out more mids and lows..or its just placebo effect for me??
   
  Has anybody here made a DIY Umbilical power cable???
   
  pics tonight..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> My new Umbilical power cable is amazing...i used the Neotech Teflon 18awg solid UPOCC conductor...Yesterday i also made a Umbilical power cable using an industrial 7x18awg copper wire but no noticeable sound differences..But the Neotech brings out more mids and lows..or its just placebo effect for me??
> 
> Has anybody here made a DIY Umbilical power cable???
> 
> *pics tonight..*


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Dan, the owner of Modwright did some magical mod made the WA22 special edition sing. So far so good. Only Liquid Fire can match so far for the price


 
  Welcome back Seamaster. Your reviews back then are what convinced me to get a WA22.
   
  Can you remind us all what Dan did to your WA22?


----------



## keph

Umbilical Power Cable..
   
  1. Yellow one is the original from WooAudio 25cm ( i took off the jacket ).
  2. Black Thick one is and industrial copper wire Misawa Densen 7x16awg 1.5m.
  3. Neotech UPOCC 7x18awg solid copper 1m.
  4. A pregnant lilac British Shorthair.


----------



## Ahzari

Nice keph, always wished the cord that came with the SE was longer so I could consider different arrangement options.. looks great.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Nice keph, always wished the cord that came with the SE was longer so I could consider different arrangement options.. looks great.


 
   
  Thanks..You could always make one if you can solder..its easy..Yeah the stock one was too short to arrange and manage...But the Neotech is worthed though my Little Brother can even notice the bass is better now than the stock cable...
   
  BTW didn't WooAudio also sells the custom Umbilical cable?.


----------



## Silent One

keph, thanks for breaking it down. I too, had wanted a longer umbi cord. The _6 Special Edition_ was always on a tight leash! WooAudio does sell them custom... and they're expensive!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> keph, thanks for breaking it down. I too, had wanted a longer umbi cord. The _6 Special Edition_ was always on a tight leash! WooAudio does sell them custom... and they're expensive!


 
   
  I can always make another one...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  how much does the WooAudio Umbilical cable sells for??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> I can always make another one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Jack will make custom lengths... and then charge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 audiophiles for chasing that last 1%. When I get another Woo, I'll definitely keep you in mind.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Jack will make custom lengths... and then charge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hahaha..just remember Woo-Less can make people go crazy...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





keph said:


> My new Umbilical power cable is amazing...i used the Neotech Teflon 18awg solid UPOCC conductor...Yesterday i also made a Umbilical power cable using an industrial 7x18awg copper wire but no noticeable sound differences..But the Neotech brings out more mids and lows..or its just placebo effect for me??
> 
> Has anybody here made a DIY Umbilical power cable???
> 
> pics tonight..


 
   
  That is the same wire that Robert from Aphroditecu29.com uses to make the aftermarket umbilical cords for the RSA amplifiers. I have one in my Dark Star and notice an improvement too.
   
  Where did you get the connectros for the Woo? I been wanting to get one of those cords for my WA5-LE but can not find the connectors.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> That is the same wire that Robert from Aphroditecu29.com uses to make the aftermarket umbilical cords for the RSA amplifiers. I have one in my Dark Star and notice an improvement too.
> 
> Where did you get the connectros for the Woo? I been wanting to get one of those cords for my WA5-LE but can not find the connectors.


 
   
  I got the connectors from a DIY store here in beijing..
   
  Yes they do make a noticeable improvements from the stock Umbilical Cable that WooAudio provides..


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Jack will make custom lengths... and then charge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had Jack make me a custom umbilical for my WA5, the cable he used was the same, but the cable wrap was purple instead of black to co-ordinate with the rest of my gear. It wasn't cheap and I had to ask Jack to look twice at the material so he could be confident it would fit all the necessary conductors!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I had Jack make me a custom umbilical for my WA5, the cable he used was the same, but the cable wrap was purple instead of black to co-ordinate with the rest of my gear. It wasn't cheap and I had to ask Jack to look twice at the material so he could be confident it would fit all the necessary conductors!


 
   
  How long did you made yours?. How much does it cost..? So Jack uses the same Yellow cable even for the custom cable?.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





keph said:


> How long did you made yours?. How much does it cost..? So Jack uses the same Yellow cable even for the custom cable?.


 
   
  I have the standard length cable redressed approx 50cm, it was $160


----------



## keph

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I have the standard length cable redressed approx 50cm, it was $160


 
   
  Wew!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 $160...


----------



## keph

1 quick question for using the 6GL7 Tubes in the WA6SE i need a 8pin to 9pin adapter am i right?. is the adapter the ordinary 8pin to 9pin adapters or it needs a special resistor inside it?.
   
  ThX


----------



## xinque

How long is the the longest cable in those pics?  Have an extended umbilical from Jack also.  Don't know the science behind it, but he mentioned if the umbilical is longer than 48" there would be a loss in quality.
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> Umbilical Power Cable..
> 
> 1. Yellow one is the original from WooAudio 25cm ( i took off the jacket ).
> 2. Black Thick one is and industrial copper wire Misawa Densen 7x16awg 1.5m.
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> WA-22 stood the test of time very well and very flexible. There are not many amps can surpass this one (moded) for the money. Maybe Liquid Fire +LCD-3...sometimes


 
   
  Welcome back good sir. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  BTW, listening to my LF+LCD-3s right now (and my newly arrived matched quad of Siemens E88CCs) and as much as I enjoyed/loved my WA22, I'm hearing things that I never thought possible with my LCD-3s.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Welcome back good sir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this,
   
  Please make it go away...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this,
> 
> Please make it go away...


 

 Sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But rest assured that the WA22 is still one very impressive amp!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Welcome back, it was your WA22 that originally inspired me to get both the second balanced input and the balanced preamp output on mine.


 
  It is a honor
  Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Welcome back Seamaster. Your reviews back then are what convinced me to get a WA22.
> 
> Can you remind us all what Dan did to your WA22?


 
  It has been long time, you have to find that thread, every step is listed on there
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Welcome back good sir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, you and I have very similar sonic taste.
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this, I do not see this,
> 
> Please make it go away...


 
  Too late, it stuck in your head for good I bet.
   
  But I managed to quit Head-Fi for almost two years, bad ass hun?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> It is a honor
> It has been long time, you have to find that thread, every step is listed on there
> Thanks, you and I have very similar sonic taste.
> Too late, it stuck in your head for good I bet.
> ...


 
   
  By chance, did the staff tell you that you were the very first audiophile in recovery at The Betty Ford Clinic?


----------



## snapple10




----------



## cacatalysis

What a pleasant suprise!  We have never met even on this site, but I want to thank you for your tube rolling thread with WA22 driving HD650.  I read it from begining to the end many times.  I own WA22, HD650 and many 6F8Gs because of your thread.  I always recommend people to read that when they have questions about WA22 or HD650. 
   
  After tomorrow I will loss  my Woo membership as I will ship my WA22 (with preamp out, influence from the Master) to its new owner.  I love this thread, the most fun on head-fi.   
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> WA-22 stood the test of time very well and very flexible. There are not many amps can surpass this one (moded) for the money. Maybe Liquid Fire +LCD-3...sometimes


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





cacatalysis said:


> What a pleasant suprise!  We have never met even on this site, but I want to thank you for your tube rolling thread with WA22 driving HD650.  I read it from begining to the end many times.  I own WA22, HD650 and many 6F8Gs because of your thread.  I always recommend people to read that when they have questions about WA22 or HD650.
> 
> After tomorrow I will loss  my Woo membership as I will ship my WA22 (with preamp out, influence from the Master) to its new owner.  I love this thread, the most fun on head-fi.


 
  what did you end up switching to cacatalysis?


----------



## jc9394

seamaster said:


> It is a honor
> It has been long time, you have to find that thread, every step is listed on there
> Thanks, you and I have very similar sonic taste.
> Too late, it stuck in your head for good I bet.
> ...




It is, I have been toying the idea to sell both wa22 and beta22 with LCD-2 to get LF and LCD-3 but finally decided not to.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is, I have been toying the idea to sell both wa22 and beta22 with LCD-2 to get LF and LCD-3 but finally decided not to.


 
   
   
  LF is much less flexible, you pretty much stuck with what it offers


----------



## cacatalysis

An ECBA still in California being modded by Craig.  After the mod, the amp can take PX25, PX4, 300B.  A weapon of money destruction. 
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> what did you end up switching to cacatalysis?


----------



## WindyCityCy

Nice setup D8!  We've got very similar gear!  Yours is so nice and dust free though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> Alright, I found another screw driver that played better with the aforementioned screw and managed to get the plug out.
> 
> Here's an unboxing album I made: http://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/view/id/650018/user_id/123792


----------



## WindyCityCy

Yes welcome back.  I spent many hours reading about your tube trials with the WA22!  Probably saved me a few bucks ... well ... those got spent on other gear ...
  Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I still enjoy my WA-22 SE every much, well with my stolen LCD-2


----------



## driver 8

What driver tubes did you end up using?
   
  Also, thanks!  I assure you the dust is there; the camera just hid it.
   
  -Edit-
   
  I just looked at your profile because I'm nosy like that... Is the office you're referring to a home office?  If not, what do your coworkers think of the WA22?  I've gotten reactions from my Fostex HP-P1 combo at school before, so I can't even begin to imagine what a full-blown tube amp comes across as to some.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Yes welcome back.  I spent many hours reading about your tube trials with the WA22!  Probably saved me a few bucks ... well ... those got spent on other gear ...


 
  At your service sir.
  Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> What driver tubes did you end up using?
> 
> Also, thanks!  I assure you the dust is there; the camera just hid it.
> 
> ...


 
  I still have NU 6F8Gs on there. Sorry, I don't let other people even put finger print on my main gears.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





xinque said:


> How long is the the longest cable in those pics?  Have an extended umbilical from Jack also.  Don't know the science behind it, but he mentioned if the umbilical is longer than 48" there would be a loss in quality.


 
   
  The longest cable is the Misawa Densen which is 1.5m or 59"...The Neotech is at 1m or 40" and the stock one is 25cm or 10"..


----------



## WindyCityCy

my office is in my house. Couldn't get much work done while listening to the woo. 



driver 8 said:


> What driver tubes did you end up using?
> 
> Also, thanks!  I assure you the dust is there; the camera just hid it.
> 
> ...


----------



## SeeHear

Ain't she purrty?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very nice


 
  +1 looks great..!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Ain't she purrty?


 
   
  Yeah... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 what we really wanna know is what's in the SACD tray?!


----------



## SeeHear

Disk 2
   
  I picked up a bunch of music at the same NYC show where I met Jack and decided to have the amp built.  Now that the amp is here, I have been listening to new music into the night - way into the night, every night.  #1blearyeyedman


----------



## grokit

Nice SACD set, nice WA22 exposure... you're two for two, way to go SeeHear  !


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice SACD set, nice WA22 exposure... you're two for two, way to go SeeHear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That does not look like a WA22..  What is it?


----------



## mwilson

WA2 ?
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> That does not look like a WA22..  What is it?


----------



## grokit

Right, it's neither. I don't have my WA22 atm, whoops  

WA4 perhaps? _edit:_ nope.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Disk 2
> 
> I picked up a bunch of music at the same NYC show where I met Jack and decided to have the amp built.  Now that the amp is here, I have been listening to new music into the night - way into the night, every night.  #1blearyeyedman


 
   
  SeeThere, SeeHere?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that'll make a WA2 sing!


----------



## mwilson

It's the WA2
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Right, it's neither. I don't have my WA22 atm, whoops
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mwilson said:


> It's the WA2


 
   
  With his mind on baby in the shop getting _tuned_, his remark is a clear sign of reverie.


----------



## SeeHear

Thanks, Grokit!
  
  Preproman and Mr. Wilson, yes, it is a WA2.


----------



## grokit

Whoops, I had glanced at this and thought for a moment that it only had 4 tubes:


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Thanks, Grokit!
> 
> Preproman and Mr. Wilson, yes, it is a WA2.


 

 SeeHer - did you say that you got some kind of balanced output installed on there?  If so can we get a close up photo?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

balanced WA2?!


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





> SeeHer - did you say that you got some kind of balanced output installed on there?  If so can we get a close up photo?


 
   
  No, I don't have a balanced output.  I had asked for various combos of in and outputs on a WA6 until Jack finally said "Enough! Get a WA2!"
  I should have asked for a switch for the pre-out as it makes all sorts of nasty noises as the tubes heat up.  Is that normal?


----------



## Nosbig

Quote: 





keph said:


> 1 quick question for using the 6GL7 Tubes in the WA6SE i need a 8pin to 9pin adapter am i right?. is the adapter the ordinary 8pin to 9pin adapters or it needs a special resistor inside it?.
> 
> ThX


 
  Yes, you need an adapter. I'm not sure if there is a resistor in mine, as they are Jack's adapters, and are guaranteed to work regardless.
   
  However, I would contact Jack. This is especially true for 6SN7s: These adapters have the same pinout as a 6SN7. If you decide to give 6SN7s a shot, BEWARE. It appears that 6SN7s in a WA6-SE REQUIRE an internal resistor.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SeeHear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Is that normal?


 
   
  I think it depends on the tube.


----------



## john57

It is usually a good idea to let tubes pre-amps warm up first before engaging or turn on the power to the upstream device that is connected to the tube pre-amp outputs.My Melos pre-amp does have a delay relay for the outputs. Some of my tubes will ping a little while warming up.


----------



## wired

A bit OT: What power cables do you use?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I should have asked for a switch for the pre-out as it makes all sorts of nasty noises as the tubes heat up.  Is that normal?


 
   
  You mean the tubes make noise, audibly coming from the tubes, without headphones on? Yes, it's  normal for a lot of tubes as the meshes/plates/elements heat up or cool down. It's the metal expanding and contracting.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





wired said:


> A bit OT: What power cables do you use?


 
   
  I use Nordost power cables and Isotek mains conditioning. Have used Shiva in the past for DIY and mod projects as it works well in DC applications as well as AC. Maybe some placebo effect going on there though!
   
  The Valhalla I hooked up to my mains conditioner brought in substantial benefits to all the downstream components, rest of my kit is wired up with Vishnu after the conditioner.


----------



## jc9394

Any Woosie looking for a deal of the century on a WA22, look here.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/610773/woo-wa22-w-eml-5u4g-st-cv181-z-syl-7236


----------



## keph

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Any Woosie looking for a deal of the century on a WA22, look here.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/610773/woo-wa22-w-eml-5u4g-st-cv181-z-syl-7236


 
   
  Dammit why do i live in Beijing..??
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 great price and Tubes..


----------



## MorbidToaster

Want...again.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Want...again.


 
   
  Same here, want...but no money to spare. That's a deal of a century.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sold


----------



## grokit

Congrats on your moment of weakness DG, welcome to the club(?)


----------



## driver 8

I don't think she bought it; pretty sure it was that fanom guy in the thread.  I almost bought the driver tubes, but between my post and his reply my swag sugar got low and I bought a new pair.  Also I generally prefer new stuff, especially when there's a set lifespan involved.


----------



## Silent One

That she considered, was a good step for Dubstep Girl...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol no i didn't buy it. still thinking about it, i just don't want to lose too much money on WA6-SE and WA2 if i buy one
   
  also i don't think my source is good enough for a WA22.


----------



## Silent One

It's a very exciting day for me. Just learned the buyer of my WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition_ sat down with it yesterday for the first time. He bought it while in Malaysia - kept it Stateside for his eventual return.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol no i didn't buy it. still thinking about it, i just don't want to lose too much money on WA6-SE and WA2 if i buy one
> 
> also i don't think my source is good enough for a WA22.


 
   
  Make no mistake, you still have a winning combo in the pair!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol no i didn't buy it. still thinking about it, i just don't want to lose too much money on WA6-SE and WA2 if i buy one
> 
> also i don't think my source is good enough for a WA22.


 
  I don't think your source is holding it back, it will improve with a better.  I used the same DAC you have for over a year and love it.
   
  I heard you on losing too much money on something you love to begin with.  I have the same issue when I sold my DX1000 and D7000.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol no i didn't buy it. still thinking about it, i just don't want to lose too much money on WA6-SE and WA2 if i buy one
> 
> also *i don't think my source is good enough for a WA22*.


 
   
  There's only one way to find out, hook it up to one! You may be surprised how much your source improves, and again when you get a balanced cable out to one of your headphones.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I don't think your source is holding it back, it will improve with a better.  I used the same DAC you have for over a year and love it.
> 
> I heard you on losing too much money on something you love to begin with.  I have the same issue when I sold my DX1000 and D7000.


 
   
  As the ol' saying goes, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 never shop when you're hungry. More time could have left more cash for the departing DX1000; D7000.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol no i didn't buy it. still thinking about it, i just don't want to lose too much money on WA6-SE and WA2 if i buy one
> 
> also i don't think my source is good enough for a WA22.


 
  Also, the longer you wait, the more they will depreciate. You can upgrade source later.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Any Woosie looking for a deal of the century on a WA22, look here.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/610773/woo-wa22-w-eml-5u4g-st-cv181-z-syl-7236


 
   
  Looks like my former WA22 is on the way to its new owner....whoever you are, please take good care of it.


----------



## Clayton SF

My favorite rectifier for the WA22 is the 5Z4 / CV1863.
  It sounds fantastic and it looks great too.
  I love the way you can see the amp through both of its plate portholes.
  Here it is, basking in the sun this wonderful SF Saturday afternoon.
  A new meaning for warming up my tubes!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Looks like my former WA22 is on the way to its new owner....whoever you are, please take good care of it.


 
   
  If the original shipping carton is still being used, I want the new owner's first post to contain travel stickers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> My favorite rectifier for the WA22 is the 5Z4 / CV1863.
> It sounds fantastic and it looks great too.
> I love the way you can see the amp through both of its plate portholes.
> Here it is, basking in the sun this wonderful SF Saturday afternoon.
> A new meaning for warming up my tubes!


 
   
  Great detail... _written and visual._


----------



## Ahzari

Finally received my turntable and my TH900s have officially replaced all my other headphones... ) definitely enjoying analog!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Finally received my turntable and my TH900s have officially replaced all my other headphones... ) definitely enjoying analog!


 
   
   
  What an expression! Well done, Ahzari...


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hi Everyone:
   
  I have posted my impressions of my new Toxic Cables Venom cable on the Toxic Cables appreciation thread if anyone is interested. Link below:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/609155/toxic-cables-the-appreciation-thread/90
   
  Rumble


----------



## ardilla

My *Emission Labs 5U4G just died* suddenly in my WA22. All other tubes lit up, but not the EML 5U4G.  I have not experienced somethings like this before.It sounded great, then suddenly was dead??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> My *Emission Labs 5U4G just died* suddenly in my WA22. All other tubes lit up, but not the EML 5U4G.  I have not experienced somethings like this before.It sounded great, then suddenly was dead??


 
   





 Shocking! Not that an EML Glass hasn't met an early demise often before, we've seen that in recent times, 2010-2011. When did you acquire it - what gen is it? Under or over warranty? Sorry to hear about your investment.
   
  Perhaps, this is a sign or trace for me to suspend the upgrades and invest in a tube tester.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Bummer. Sorry to hear about it!



ardilla said:


> My *Emission Labs 5U4G just died* suddenly in my WA22. All other tubes lit up, but not the EML 5U4G.  I have not experienced somethings like this before.It sounded great, then suddenly was dead??


----------



## Silent One

I'm waiting to learn if the glass is still under warranty. I'd be rifling through the file cabinet for the receipt in hopes that...


----------



## ardilla

It's 1,5 YO, used a couple of times per week. I'd expect it to last longer....
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm waiting to learn if the glass is still under warranty. I'd be rifling through the file cabinet for the receipt in hopes that...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> It's 1,5 YO, used a couple of times per week. I'd expect it to last longer....


 
   





 The horror! You didn't have the latest improved (allegedly) version. What do you have in the way of backup rectifiers?


----------



## keph

Try the Full Music 274B meshed plate Balloon shape bottle..


----------



## ardilla

Where do you get it? What does it cost?
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> Try the Full Music 274B meshed plate Balloon shape bottle..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Where do you get it? What does it cost?


 
   
  I was at Hong Kong few weeks ago and bought it at Wiwi Tubes which cost HK$795 around US$100...i like the sound more than my Tung-Sol 5U4G/VT-244..


----------



## ardilla

What about reliablility.... ?
  Quote: 





keph said:


> I was at Hong Kong few weeks ago and bought it at Wiwi Tubes which cost HK$795 around US$100...i like the sound more than my Tung-Sol 5U4G/VT-244..


----------



## jc9394

Source a 596 with an adapter, it is one of the best kept secret of Woo amp rectifier.  Good luck finding one...


----------



## ardilla

You tallking 'bout this one?
   




  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Source a 596 with an adapter, it is one of the best kept secret of Woo amp rectifier.  Good luck finding one...


----------



## jc9394

Yes, it is as good if not better than EML 5U4G at a fraction of the cost.  It is very hard to find but it is worth every pennies if you can find one.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, it is as good if not better than EML 5U4G at a fraction of the cost.  It is very hard to find but it is worth every pennies if you can find one.


 
   
   
  X 2. I Got a pair in the WA5LE and a strong pair spare bought from Glenn sometimes ago.


----------



## keph

I just bought some Driver/power Tubes from Indydieselnut here are the tubes.
   
  1 pair - Raytheon 6DE7 skinny bottle  
  1 pair - GE 6DE7 skinny bottle 
  1 pair - GE 6EW7 big bottle
  1 pair - "Generic" USA 6FD7 big bottle
  1 pair - RCA 6EW7 skinny bottle 
  1 pair - Tung-Sol 6FD7 big bottle 
  1 pair - Pinnacle 6DR7 skinny bottle
   
  Can anyone rate which is the best tube for using LCD-2 and Hifiman HE-500 ???
   
  Can't wait to start Driver/Power tube Rolling...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X 2. I Got a pair in the WA5LE and a strong pair spare bought from Glenn sometimes ago.


 
   
   
  X 3.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Source a 596 with an adapter, it is one of the best kept secret of Woo amp rectifier.  Good luck finding one...


 
   
   





 Absolutely! Though, with your avatar the secret is out...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely! Though, with your avatar the secret is out...


 
   
  only if they pay attention to it first.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> only if they pay attention to it first.


 
   
  True. ardilla must have been 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 paying attention to all the talk!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> X 3.


 
  X4. I have a pair in my WA5-LE that replaced my EML 5U4G Mesh and many others and have an extra pair for backup


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> X4. I have a pair in my WA5-LE that replaced my EML 5U4G Mesh and many others and have an extra pair for backup


 
   
  In the last two weeks, got my hands on a few (USAF-596). Just passed one through grokit's hands. Will seek to get Clayton SF & wotts one next...




   
  My focus now is on adapters for them.


----------



## steel108

Just got my WA22 today; bought it from cacatalysis. It came FAST; so fast, that I can't even use it. My DAC, tube adapter, and balanced cables aren't here yet  I can't describe how brutal it is to not be able to use it


----------



## ygm

I may not have noticed it until now since I don't fiddle with the volume alot, but there seems to be crackling on the left channel of my wa22 as I turn the volume knob up and down one step.  Any ideas as to what may be the cause?
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ygm said:


> I may not have noticed it until now since I don't fiddle with the volume alot, but there seems to be crackling on the left channel of my wa22 as I turn the volume knob up and down one step.  Any ideas as to what may be the cause?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 

 That's normal actually (when turning the volume knob up/down). But once you settle in the volume it goes away.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Alright, so who's going to start the USAF 596 loaner program now that so many of us have backups of backups 



musicman59 said:


> X4. I have a pair in my WA5-LE that replaced my EML 5U4G Mesh and many others and have an extra pair for backup


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Alright, so who's going to start the USAF 596 loaner program now that so many of us have backups of backups


 
   
  Well, my goal is to secure another adapter; will send out the _Mighty 596_ for a second tour...to a limited group, to be sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is my hope that others will contribute as well. Say like, mine gets BLOWN UP! Gonna need help replacing that bad boy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





steel108 said:


> Just got my WA22 today; bought it from cacatalysis. It came FAST; so fast, that I can't even use it. My DAC, tube adapter, and balanced cables are here yet  I can't describe how brutal it is to not be able to use it


 
   
  Let me guess, the cat in the avatar is named 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guardian. Hope you get your stuff before the l-o-n-g holiday weekend. Really like the wood on display...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





steel108 said:


> Just got my WA22 today; bought it from cacatalysis. It came FAST; so fast, that I can't even use it. My DAC, tube adapter, and balanced cables are here yet  I can't describe how brutal it is to not be able to use it


 
   
   
  ouch, you will have an amazing setup once you get everything though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ouch, you will have an amazing setup once you get everything though.


 
   
  It actually has a bit of a "Retail" look to it, doesn't it?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it does!


----------



## Silent One

If our fellow member placed a small i.d. card in front of it that read "WA22" we'd be asking "How much?"


----------



## Silent One

In 10 days, I'm junking the 42" audio desk in favor of a 47.5" coffee table. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll need the extra room on top this autumn for a pre-owned Woo!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In 10 days, I'm junking the 42" audio desk in favor of a 47.5" coffee table.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes, it is as good if not better than EML 5U4G at a fraction of the cost.  It is very hard to find but it is worth every pennies if you can find one.


 
   
  How much are the UE 596 going for nowadays?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> How much are the UE 596 going for nowadays?


 
   
  I recently sold one for £50
   
  If you haven't heard one, its deffo worth seeking out and giving them a roll they certainly made a huge impact to my systems presentation,
   
  Personally I cant listen with them for too long - too forward for my ears in my rig.


----------



## Ultrainferno

50£ for a NOS UE 596? I expected double


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 50£ for a NOS UE 596? I expected double


 
   
   





 Be careful what you wish for.


----------



## San Raal

My guess is although they're difficult to get hold of right now, they're not mainstream so the demand doesn't exist to push the prices up.
   
  If there was more demand, its also possible that more of these would pop up from storage.
   
  My auction ran for 1 week and only ever had a max of 4 watchers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> My guess is although they're difficult to get hold of right now, they're not mainstream so the demand doesn't exist to push the prices up.
> 
> *If there was more demand, its also possible that more of these would pop up from storage.*


 
   
  This is true, as there are some (many?) who don't even know what they've got. Meaning, they got it and ain't no one looking for it. And when we do, their question is "What do you intend to do with it?" My research in April baffled many, as I kept working the phones & emails. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Most of my "Hits" have come from brokers specializing in Military surplus and supplies. And they are savvy, judging by the varying degrees of commish! But there's an adequate supply out there to keep us stocked. Some outfits have minimum $500 per order or quantity, say lot size of 20. Since they work well with Woo's indeed, we might have to coordinate for a group buy at some point.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In 10 days, I'm junking the 42" audio desk in favor of a 47.5" coffee table.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  very nice


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> very nice


 
   
  Thanks kindly. I don't smoke, so no worries there. Still-to-come, the new rack and in July some Brass footers for the Mac - 3"x3" & 6 lbs each.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is true, as there are some (many?) who don't even know what they've got. Meaning, they got it and ain't know one looking for it. And when we do, their question is "What do you intend to do with it?" My research in April baffled many, as I kept working the phones & emails.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's some useful info there on the trade. Your passion for this bottle and to bring it to the community is commendable sir!


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for pointing that out. We are a community. And even if other members are buying components, tubes & tweaks of no interest to me, I don't want to see any of my brother and sisters in the community get ripped! What I'm trying to do is seek out a small supply for members before speculators see our hunger and....we know how this story ends.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In the last two weeks, got my hands on a few (USAF-596). Just passed one through grokit's hands. Will seek to get Clayton SF & wotts one next...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Buddy, you forget about me?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Buddy, you forget about me?


 
   





 Never! When my '596' went out on tour, you were gracious enough to sponsor me, in case it met an early demise. Great brotherhood. grokit and wotts didn't have any and Clayton SF needs a back up. But, I definitely have you in the rotation...for a backup...to your backup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Currently in-session with Xiomara Laugart - "De Mis Recuerdos" (My Memories) 2006 - HDTracks 24/96 kHz. Her honey-drenched voice is too much. Maybe I should go to bed now.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is true, as there are some (many?) who don't even know what they've got. Meaning, they got it and ain't know one looking for it. And when we do, their question is "What do you intend to do with it?" My research in April baffled many, as I kept working the phones & emails.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Maybe we should buy them all and resell it out here at cost?
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Never! When my '596' went out on tour, you were gracious enough to sponsor me, in case it met an early demise. Great brotherhood. grokit and wotts didn't have any and Clayton SF needs a back up. But, I definitely have you in the rotation...for a backup...to your backup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, it is 7am already.


----------



## Silent One

Ok, good night now....er....good day all....back up @ lunch time!


----------



## dannie01

I see some very nice chopping boards. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





silent one said:


> In 10 days, I'm junking the 42" audio desk in favor of a 47.5" coffee table.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Buddy, you forget about me?


 
   
  And me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although I've been disappeared for a while here, never put me aside!


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello everybody from Italy! After a long hiatus (due to the sad loss of my father) I am come back to read and, sometimes, write in this beatiful thread!
  I have a lot of news in my high-end gear and, to tell the truth, my WA22 is currently my second best headphone amplifier and it shines on my home-theater room.
  As of now I am always waiting for my new Plasma Tv (Panasonic VT50), my new universal blu ray player (Cambridge Audio 751 BD) and some other cables to put my WA22 to function properly in his new room and condition.
  As soon as possible I will post some pictures of my two room: the audio room and the video room.
  See you!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I see some very nice chopping boards.


 

 i don't see you here for a while


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> And me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Buddy, where have you been.  Hope everything is well.


----------



## jc9394

With all the 596 talks, just found this pic from computer.


----------



## grokit

National Union Trifecta!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> With all the 596 talks, just found this pic from computer.


 
   
  oh the red from the adaptor looks cool..!! i had only seen green before..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I see some very nice chopping boards.


 
   
  I understand "cross-contamination" so, Shrimp on one board, herbs on another and.......never mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Quite the pleasure seeing you return briefly to this space!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lumaz said:


> Hello everybody from Italy! After a long hiatus (due to the sad loss of my father) I am come back to read and, sometimes, write in this beatiful thread!
> I have a lot of news in my high-end gear and, to tell the truth, my WA22 is currently my second best headphone amplifier and it shines on my home-theater room.
> As of now I am always waiting for my new Plasma Tv (Panasonic VT50), my new universal blu ray player (Cambridge Audio 751 BD) and some other cables to put my WA22 to function properly in his new room and condition.
> As soon as possible I will post some pictures of my two room: the audio room and the video room.
> See you!


 
   
  I am deeply saddened by your long and lingering loss. I wrote you last summer, and when you didn't respond, I knew things were in slow decline. I admire your strength and perseverance. That said, welcome back Woo mate!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> With all the 596 talks, just found this pic from computer.


 
   
   





 My goodness! This is two too much! Last summer, I unsuccessfully tried to buy a pre-owned '22.' Then, I moved on and later tried to buy a pair of NU-6F8G's. Wait, yours in fact! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To see the two prospects in the same pix is too much for da kidd!




   
  Absolutely love this pix!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> And me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  We've got you firm in mind! If not for your blowing up EML Glass and Glenn's problem solving skills...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 were would we be?! Tonight for my reference, I'm going to create a Silent note listing which WooAudio amp owners want the rectifier and who needs the adapter for it. Off the top of my head...
   
   
*USAF-596; JAN-596:*
   
  .Clayton SF
  .wotts
  .jc9394
  .dannie01
  .keph
   
   
   
*Adapter:*
   
  .Ahzari
  .Groundzero
  .wotts
  .keph


----------



## madbull

It's a lovely picture indeed... I know nothing about tubes, these wires are adapters of some kind?


----------



## grokit

I do have an adapter. Now about getting the amp back...


----------



## Silent One

This is good news! Thanks for the update.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





madbull said:


> It's a lovely picture indeed... I know nothing about tubes, these wires are adapters of some kind?


 
   
  Briefly, tubes come in a wide variety of sizes, shapes, colors and construction - a rhyme & reason exist usually for these differences. The wires shown are called Anode wires and this particular tube uses an external construction for these wires, which is why the adapters have the wires running down from the cap to the base of the adapters instead of inside the tube.
   
  The advantage of external construction is the tube can handle more power in a smaller size and operate better at higher frequencies. Say, like in a big RF Transmitter or something. Audio members don't mind borrowing from other areas of electronics.


----------



## Dixter

I have been talking with Jack Woo about the adapter for the 596...   he's interested in making them... I just sent him 2 of the USAF596 tubes this morning for taking on the project...  they should arrive in NY on Thursday so he can start to work with them...     can't wait to get my hands on one...  
   
  so it shouldn't be too long now....
   
  later


----------



## grokit

Barely broken-in WA6SE alert


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dixter said:


> I have been talking with Jack Woo about the adapter for the 596...   he's interested in making them... I just sent him 2 of the USAF596 tubes this morning for taking on the project...  they should arrive in NY on Thursday so he can start to work with them...     can't wait to get my hands on one...
> 
> so it shouldn't be too long now....
> 
> later


 
   
  Thanks, Dixter. This could be of BIG help. I was going to approach him after seeking DIYer's first. If only because I have a thing for Black. And the base of his adapters that I've seen are White. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But, you know what they say, "preference" means to do without something.


----------



## Dixter

I was waiting on a black adapter but my emails went unanswered for awhile so I contacted Jack to see if he was interested...   of course he needed a 596 so I sent him 2 for the project..   The adapter that Jack makes for other tubes use the white teflon base...   they look  and work pretty well and I like the fact that you can pull them apart easily if you want to change the wires to any size/color you want without damaging the adapter...   some of the DIY adapters I have you can't service them as they
  are filled with epoxy...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nicely done! I just Bought his 6F8G adapters and they work great with no noise or micro phonics and look very durable and well made. I would love to add an adapter for 596. 



dixter said:


> I have been talking with Jack Woo about the adapter for the 596...   he's interested in making them... I just sent him 2 of the USAF596 tubes this morning for taking on the project...  they should arrive in NY on Thursday so he can start to work with them...     can't wait to get my hands on one...
> 
> so it shouldn't be too long now....
> 
> later


----------



## Silent One

Since we're easily going to drop about $100 for them, I might as well ask Jack for Black...


----------



## Sid-Fi

​Speaking of which, would anyone who has a backup 596 and adapter be interested in swapping for a weekend or so? I have a pair of Tung Sol black glass rib plate 6F8G and matching pair of Woo adaters that might make for a good swap. If not, I better start looking for them because I'm dying of curiosity to check them out by now. 

You all are a persuasive bunch


----------



## Silent One

This is appealing - a short-term opportunity to share and hear.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We've got you firm in mind! If not for your blowing up EML Glass and Glenn's problem solving skills...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Count me in for the 596's and converters too SO..i also still need the 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapters for my 6SE...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Count me in for the 596's and converters too SO..i also still need the 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapters for my 6SE...


 
   
  With news of Jack Wu (WooAudio) entering the fray, our need to source adapters is now resolved.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With news of Jack Wu (WooAudio) entering the fray, our need to source adapters is now resolved.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


>


 
   
  One observation I made - the USAF-596 had a bigger impact in the WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition, _than it does in my current custom built 6AS7 OTL amp. I rolled a few recs and though subtle, the '596' keeps rising to the top. But in the Woo, there wasn't anything subtle about it. With the right circuit and the right playmates, this tube knows how to swing!
   
  Formerly, I had Miss Sophia (274B Mesh plate) and the EML Glass (5U4G). So bold was the presentation of the '596', Miss Sophia wouldn't dare come out of her dressing room. And the EML got treated like just another tourist, on just another day...._Next!_
   
  Admittedly, this tube is not for everyone. San Raal can testify. But for those WooAudio amp owners looking to stir things up...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One observation I made - the USAF-596 had a bigger impact in the WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition, _than it does in my current custom built 6AS7 OTL amp. I rolled a few recs and though subtle, the '596' keeps rising to the top. But in the Woo, there wasn't anything subtle about it. With the right circuit and the right playmates, this tube knows how to swing!
> 
> Formerly, I had Miss Sophia (274B Mesh plate) and the EML Glass (5U4G). So bold was the presentation of the '596', Miss Sophia wouldn't dare come out of her dressing room. And the EML got treated like just another tourist, on just another day...._Next!_
> 
> Admittedly, this tube is not for everyone. San Raal can testify. But for those WooAudio amp owners looking to stir things up...


 
   
  Arghh makes me want the USAF-596 even more..how many 596's you got SO?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Arghh makes me want the USAF-596 even more..how many 596's you got SO?


 
   
  Currently have two; seeking 6 - 12 from a dealer.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently have two; seeking 6 - 12 from a dealer.


 
   
  Great don't forget me i might need 1-2 + converters..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Great don't forget me i might need 1-2 + converters..


 
   
  With adapters now apparently resolved - thanks, Dixter & Jack - we just need to get you a rectifier.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One observation I made - the USAF-596 had a bigger impact in the WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition, _than it does in my current custom built 6AS7 OTL amp. I rolled a few recs and though subtle, the '596' keeps rising to the top. But in the Woo, there wasn't anything subtle about it. With the right circuit and the right playmates, this tube knows how to swing!
> 
> Formerly, I had Miss Sophia (274B Mesh plate) and the EML Glass (5U4G). So bold was the presentation of the '596', Miss Sophia wouldn't dare come out of her dressing room. And the EML got treated like just another tourist, on just another day...._Next!_
> 
> Admittedly, this tube is not for everyone. San Raal can testify. But for those WooAudio amp owners looking to stir things up...


 
   
  I was really upset and somewhat envious that they didn't transform my system to my ears at least to what others experience with this bottle. I hold onto them in the hope that in the future another amp or mods to the WA5 may make them sing for me!
   
  Its like the flight of the 596 here right now, qudos on bringing Woo audio on-board with the adaptors!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I was really upset and somewhat envious that they didn't transform my system to my ears at least to what others experience with this bottle. I hold onto them in the hope that in the future another amp or mods to the WA5 may make them sing for me!
> 
> Its like the flight of the 596 here right now, qudos on bringing Woo audio on-board with the adaptors!


 
   
  What I really like about the whole '596' option is that, by introducing us to it, Glenn expanded WooAudio amp owner's horizons. That some of us may or may not desire it is secondary. I'm looking at the bigger picture. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, it's now all coming back to me... "A rising tide lifts all boats." 
   
  I was caught dilly-dallying, Dixter jumped at the opportunity!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With news of Jack Wu (WooAudio) entering the fray, our need to source adapters is now resolved.


 
  Thank you Silent One..! So Jack is going to produce the 596 adaptors? I wonder if he would also make WA6SE 6SN7 adaptors with the resistors (like Glenn did). Looks like me and keph are in the market for those as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thank you Silent One..! So Jack is going to produce the 596 adaptors? I wonder if he would also make WA6SE 6SN7 adaptors with the resistors (like Glenn did). Looks like me and keph are in the market for those as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup, exciting isn't it? He periodically reads our thread as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A fellow member in Europe just stepped up HUGE - sitting on a stack of USAF-596's. Currently, trying to find out what he wants for them and the best way to distribute them.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yup, exciting isn't it? He periodically reads our thread as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've never been this excited for Tubes before..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Thank you Silent One..! So Jack is going to produce the 596 adaptors? I wonder if he would also make WA6SE 6SN7 adaptors with the resistors (like Glenn did). Looks like me and keph are in the market for those as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup.. Thanks to SO and the others who will make everything impossible possible..


----------



## Silent One

I've a very small collection of tubes (24?). Still, it's time for an elegant display case.


----------



## Silent One

Just fighting the "Good fight," 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so that other WooAudio amp owners can enjoy the _Mighty 596._


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yup, exciting isn't it? He periodically reads our thread as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thats awesome! I would actually love an extra 596! so count me in on that as well. (+1 596, and +2 adaptors) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. Well, depending on how much this all ends up costing haha. Thanks for the information and taking the lead on this. Very excited.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks. Summers should be about books, booking reservations for travel, booking events among family and friends. And when time and money permits, booking new tube purchases.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. Summers should be about books, booking reservations for travel, booking events among family and friends. And when time and money permits, booking new tube purchases.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One observation I made - the* USAF-596 had a bigger impact in the WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition, *than it does in my current custom built 6AS7 OTL amp. I rolled a few recs and though subtle, the '596' keeps rising to the top. But in the Woo, there wasn't anything subtle about it. With the right circuit and the right playmates, this tube knows how to swing!
> 
> Formerly, I had Miss Sophia (274B Mesh plate) and the EML Glass (5U4G). So bold was the presentation of the '596', Miss Sophia wouldn't dare come out of her dressing room. And the EML got treated like just another tourist, on just another day...._Next!_
> 
> Admittedly, this tube is not for everyone. San Raal can testify. But for those WooAudio amp owners looking to stir things up...


 
   
  The 596 on WA22 is as good or about the same as EML 5U4G, I have not do a serious comparison on them yet.  For the price of 596, I will take it any time over the EML.
   
  Actually, I think the 596 is like taking the best of metal based GZ34 and EML 5U4G.  Have the dynamic of GZ34 and the soundstage of EML.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i don't see you here for a while


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Buddy, where have you been.  Hope everything is well.


 
   
  Thanks my friend, I am good but a bit busy at work.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I understand "cross-contamination" so, Shrimp on one board, herbs on another and.......never mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was wondering this boards are sometimes for sushi...............................


----------



## dannie01

This is wonderful! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> With all the 596 talks, just found this pic from computer.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks my friend, I am good but a bit busy at work.
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering this boards are sometimes for sushi...............................


 
   
  Busy is good at this economy now.  Did you said sushi???  Where and when, I'm in but please no buffet.
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> This is wonderful!


 
   
  It is but for some reason the 596 does not have the impact that I'm hoping for.  Maybe because someone did an amazing job on modding my WA22.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Busy is good at this economy now.  Did you said sushi???  Where and when, I'm in but please no buffet.
> 
> It is but for some reason the 596 does not have the impact that I'm hoping for.  Maybe because someone did an amazing job on modding my WA22.


 
   
  Sure, have some good places for sushi, anytime, cos no buffet.
   
  Well......................


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Busy is good at this economy now.  Did you said sushi???  Where and when, I'm in but please no buffet.
> 
> It is but for some reason the 596 does not have the impact that I'm hoping for.  Maybe because someone did an amazing job on modding my WA22.




Sushi--Yes! And sake, too!
And who modded yer 22?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sushi--Yes! And sake, too!
> And who modded yer 22?


 
   
  I went back to the same place few weeks ago with few coworkers.  It is just as good and we downed few bottles.
   
  The one and only Dannie01 modded my WA22 with BGs.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sushi--Yes! And sake, too!
> And who modded yer 22?


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I went back to the same place few weeks ago with few coworkers.  It is just as good and we downed few bottles.
> 
> The one and only Dannie01 modded my WA22 with BGs.


 
   
  Ya mean this ...........................


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I went back to the same place few weeks ago with few coworkers.  It is just as good and we downed few bottles.
> 
> The one and only Dannie01 modded my WA22 with BGs.


 
   
  I sounds like you and your coworkers had a great time.
  You should've stopped on by! I'm just three blocks up the hill.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I sounds like you and your coworkers had a great time.
> You should've stopped on by! I'm just three blocks up the hill.


 

 yes we did.  that was a fully packed week, we only have time to go out on Friday night before taking the redeye back to Boston.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yes we did.  that was a fully packed week, we only have time to go out on Friday night before taking the redeye back to Boston.


 
   
  Wow. After a night of sushi and sake, that must have been a really red, red-eye flight. |-)


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. After a night of sushi and sake, that must have been a really red, red-eye flight. |-)


 
   
  It is not easy to get thru TSA when we are half drunk trying to catch a 11:30pm flight.


----------



## nututubes

I love the sound of 5998s in my WA22. I have 3 pairs of Tung-Sol 5998s, 1 pair of IBM 5998s and now these. I couldn't resist, is there such a thing as too much of a good thing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These have 2 rectangular or "D" getters. I know...Tung-Sol made them all, but I have to know.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I love the sound of 5998s in my WA22. I have 3 pairs of Tung-Sol 5998s, 1 pair of IBM 5998s and now these. I couldn't resist, is there such a thing as too much of a good thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 A late night snack my amp would love to have!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yes we did.  that was a fully packed week, we only have time to go out on Friday night before taking the redeye back to Boston.


 
   
   
  Being a cat who reserves his own time for listening sessions in advance, and logs his hours once seated, that I gave my sitter compensation to be on-call just in case we met, should be of no surprise. She was delighted. And I, delighted for the opportunity to meet whether we did or not.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Ya mean this ...........................


 
   
_This pix reminds me of candy left on the table over the holidays..._
   
  Time for you to post new pix from HK, dannie01!


----------



## grokit

Nice WA22 mods, someday. One thing at a time...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice WA22 mods, someday. One thing at a time...


 
   
  Between this one and Seamaster's, maybe unsubscribing would be prudent for me...


----------



## obzilla

I'm pretty new to rolling, but my WA5 is liking the new set of Sophia 300Bs and 6SN7s (I've had the 300Bs for a couple of weeks, the 6SN7s just landed). A very nice improvement over the stock tubes.
   
  Now I just need a couple of rectifiers to complete the set.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Being a cat who reserves his own time for listening sessions in advance, and logs his hours once seated, that I gave my sitter compensation to be on-call just in case we met, should be of no surprise. She was delighted. And I, delighted for the opportunity to meet whether we did or not.


 
   
  Sorry, I'm shooting in August back in bay area and this time I will have a lot more times to myself.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sorry, I'm shooting in August back in bay area and this time I will have a lot more times to myself.


 

 And I will be back in The Netherlands searching for some "Made In Holland" tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sorry, I'm shooting in August back in bay area and this time I will have a lot more times to myself.


 
   
  We understand. Besides, you think Overhead compartments are tight? Some itineraries are down right impossible to squeeze.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I'm pretty new to rolling, but my WA5 is liking the new set of Sophia 300Bs and 6SN7s (I've had the 300Bs for a couple of weeks, the 6SN7s just landed). A very nice improvement over the stock tubes.
> 
> Now I just need a couple of rectifiers to complete the set.


 
   
_No doubt, a fine pair of recs will be speeding to your door in no time! We're enjoying your landscape in the meantime..._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And I will be back in The Netherlands searching for some "Made In Holland" tubes.


 
   
  Then, I will be in Sept hunting you down for some expensive old light bulbs...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We understand. Besides, you think Overhead compartments are tight? Some itineraries are down right impossible to squeeze.


 
   
  The last trip is almost the same, 7-6 conference, 6-whenever, client system upgrade.  One thing that is nice the conference party is "Lifehouse" concert.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _No doubt, a fine pair of recs will be speeding to your door in no time! We're enjoying your landscape in the meantime..._


 
   
  No, no speeding. I'm just keeping an ear to the ground for a good price on a pair of Sophia 274Bs, then I will have a full set of Sophias.
   
  Then I can work on something like an EML set, or some NOS. I was looking at Full Music as well, but is it just me, or do they appear to be almost 1:1 duplicates of the Sophias? From the font work to the bases and tube shapes, which is the real McCoy or is just a coincidence?


----------



## Silent One

Many have been...and will be...left wondering about the cozy relationship there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ever call two different competitors and have the same receptionist answer the phone?


----------



## keph

Great News Everyone,
   
  Since i have been searching around in the local forums, i found a guy whom can make the adapters from 5U4G to 596's.


----------



## Silent One

Great news, indeed! Thanks for sharing. By chance, any pix of previously assembled adapters? And would we be able to communicate a preference for "key guide" direction? Thanks.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'm definitely interested if there is enough to go around. Looks like the waiting list of established members is long.



silent one said:


> Yup, exciting isn't it? He periodically reads our thread as well. :rolleyes:  A fellow member in Europe just stepped up HUGE - sitting on a stack of USAF-596's. Currently, trying to find out what he wants for them and the best way to distribute them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I'm definitely interested if there is enough to go around. Looks like the waiting list of established members is long.


 
   
  There will be enough to go around. The initial list will likely be a short one... but multiple grabs.


----------



## keph

Pictures have have been asked ill post here tonight, the seller is going to send me one adapter first for trial he says that it will be 100% identical with glenn's one (no offence)...after the test if i get my 596 asap i can confirm if its working or not and then i can put up a list of possible buyer.
   
  About the Key guide direction actually you can do it yourself just open up the bottom case and then loosen few screws and then twist it to the side as you want your tube to appear then screw it back on thats what i did.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice, better take advantage and grab two then hehe.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> There will be enough to go around. The initial list will likely be a short one... but multiple grabs.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Nice, better take advantage and grab two then hehe.


 
   
  I'll get 4 of these Babies...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Speaking of which...If I plan it right, I might be able to make my 500th post about impressions on dropping the USAF 596 into my WA22 
  Quote: 





keph said:


> I'll get 4 of these Babies...


----------



## keph

Quick question does the 5U4G to 596 converter have some special resistors inside or its just 8pin to 4pin wire-ing + 2 top contacts??


----------



## keph

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Speaking of which...If I plan it right, I might be able to make my 500th post about impressions on dropping the USAF 596 into my WA22


 
   
  Then better make it a good one...hehe


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quick question does the 5U4G to 596 converter have some special resistors inside or its just 8pin to 4pin wire-ing + 2 top contacts??


 
   
  I've not looked inside and I'm not sure. Someone in the know may weigh in...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Pictures have have been asked ill post here tonight, the seller is going to send me one adapter first for trial he says that it will be 100% identical with glenn's one (no offence)...after the test if i get my 596 asap i can confirm if its working or not and then i can put up a list of possible buyer.
> 
> About the Key guide direction actually you can do it yourself just open up the bottom case and then loosen few screws and then twist it to the side as you want your tube to appear then screw it back on thats what i did.


 
   
  I'm big on aesthetics, so this helps...thanx!


----------



## keph

Guys i just found something interesting here...But first let me ask questions, is Sophia Princess actually a rebranded Full Music?? i Just found out something convincing...


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> I'm pretty new to rolling, but my WA5 is liking the new set of Sophia 300Bs and 6SN7s (I've had the 300Bs for a couple of weeks, the 6SN7s just landed). A very nice improvement over the stock tubes.
> 
> Now I just need a couple of rectifiers to complete the set.


 
   
  Its a slippery slope for your wallet from here on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Those stock rectifiers - they look like Shuggys good performance for their price I thought. The stock Shuggy 300B-98 I got with my WA5 needed rolling out fast imho!


----------



## grokit

keph said:


> Guys i just found something interesting here...But first let me ask questions, is Sophia Princess actually a rebranded Full Music?? i Just found out something convincing...




The consensus is yes.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The consensus is yes.


 
   
  That's what i found try to see http://www.tube-fullmusic.com/products/en/50_n_c_en.htm and http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/50.htm see the mesurements..they have the same result and name... So all Sofia's tubes are indeed rebranded Full Music...


----------



## LUMAZ

Hello to all Wooowners fellas! As I said the other day, as of now my WA22 is my second headphone ampli because I recently bought an incredible (also for the price because it costs more than ten times the WA22!) pre ampli (the German-made Klimo Parsifal;maybe in the U.S.A. it is not known) in two boxes to get the best from my Naim 555 source: now I perfectly know the pros and cons of my WA22 and, before to write (I would like to enclose some pictures but I am a bad photographer!) a comparison review between my two amplifiers, I would like to know from all the WA22 owners what do you like and what you don't in your WA22. Thanks in advance.


----------



## keph

It's made...Now i just have to wait to get some 596's and test the converter...The material is using Teflon sockets and wire...my Tube Seller haven't replied my e-mail...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> It's made...Now i just have to wait to get some 596's and test the converter...The material is using Teflon sockets and wire...my Tube Seller haven't replied my e-mail...


 
   
  Thanks for posting, keph. I can't wait for you to get some glass so you can put it through its paces!


----------



## Ahzari

ooo thats perrty, nice keph if they work well I would love one. 
  Quote: 





keph said:


> It's made...Now i just have to wait to get some 596's and test the converter...The material is using Teflon sockets and wire...my Tube Seller haven't replied my e-mail...


----------



## Silent One

I think it would be more prudent if I imported an adapter for trial, rather than export very rare glass for the same trial. Will give it some thought, though...


----------



## keph

I just hope everything works fine cant wait for my driver/power tubes and the 596's...then ill be a happy man..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> I just hope everything works fine cant wait for my driver/power tubes and the 596's...then ill be a happy man..


 
   





 That _6 Special Edition_ is gonna sing! I remember you sayin' the seller wasn't answering your email(s). I wonder if I can persuade this cat to give me ALL Black - I want it "Blacked out." No printing. No identification. Wires...caps...everything! In fact, if it wasn't such a gorgeous looking tube, I'd look to get the glass tinted Black.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That _6 Special Edition_ is gonna sing! I remember you sayin' the seller wasn't answering your email(s). I wonder if I can persuade this cat to give me ALL Black - I want it "Blacked out." No printing. No identification. Wires...caps...everything! In fact, if it wasn't such a gorgeous looking tube, I'd look to get the glass tinted Black.


 
   
  Funny thread!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That _6 Special Edition_ is gonna sing! I remember you sayin' the seller wasn't answering your email(s). I wonder if I can persuade this cat to give me ALL Black - I want it "Blacked out." No printing. No identification. Wires...caps...everything! In fact, if it wasn't such a gorgeous looking tube, I'd look to get the glass tinted Black.


 
   
  HAHAHA LOL... Can't wait...


----------



## Silent One

Those who know me, know I wasn't joking.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Those who know me, know I wasn't joking.


 
   
  SO?  OCD?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> SO?  OCD?


 
   
  Since WooAudio lacks an online configurator, I badly want to see Jack release the WA234 Mono clad in all Black, no Silver trim and show it off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 O, forgot to answer the question: No.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> SO?  OCD?




There is a Rolling Stones song called Paint it Black.
(partial lyrics): I see my red door and I want it painted black; No colors anymore I want them to turn black ... I wanna see the sun blotted out from the sky; I wanna see it painted, painted, painted, painted black....


----------



## Silent One




----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   
  As much as I like Woo in black (my short lived WA6SE) it is a dust magnet even I clean it every week.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> As much as I like Woo in black (my short lived WA6SE) it is a dust magnet even I clean it every week.


 
   
  One thing is for certain - the period in between maintenance is short, but the appreciation factor during this time is off-the-charts!


----------



## Silent One

RE: (MOT) 2359glenn......_our resident guru._
   
  Good morning fellow Woo mates! Just heard from Glenn this morning. He was released from the hospital today, but faces another surgery next week. He'll be on medical leave for appx 6 weeks or more, before returning to action. 
   
  In our prior communication, he wanted to thank all of you for thinking of him at this time.
   
  Kindly,
   
  Silent One
   
   
  Edit: This just in! Glenn said he may be able to make adapters sooner, but using power tools to make amps is out for awhile. He only uses a drill press to make adapters. This is good.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> RE: (MOT) 2359glenn......_our resident guru._
> 
> Good morning fellow Woo mates! Just heard from Glenn this morning. He was released from the hospital today, but faces another surgery next week. He'll be on medical leave for appx 6 weeks or more, before returning to action.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad to heard he is doing fine.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One thing is for certain - the period in between maintenance is short, but the appreciation factor during this time is off-the-charts!


 
   
  Yes and no, I do like a little more time playing than dusting...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  after all, playing is way more important...


----------



## grokit

lumaz said:


> Hello to all Wooowners fellas! As I said the other day, as of now my WA22 is my second headphone ampli because I recently bought an incredible (also for the price because it costs more than ten times the WA22!) pre ampli (the German-made Klimo Parsifal;maybe in the U.S.A. it is not known) in two boxes to get the best from my Naim 555 source: now I perfectly know the pros and cons of my WA22 and, before to write (I would like to enclose some pictures but I am a bad photographer!) a comparison review between my two amplifiers, I would like to know from all the WA22 owners what do you like and what you don't in your WA22. Thanks in advance.




I like everything about the WA22, except for the source switch in the back. But I like the amp so much that I doubled up on that particular inconvenience, by adding preamp function which requires a second, even harder to access switch back there!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes and no, I do like a little more time playing than dusting...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wait...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you no dust your Woo during the day and play it @ night? Ah, you're multi-amped....got it!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wait...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Unless I'm Goku of Dragonball with teleportation power, I can't be at work and dust my amps at home.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> RE: (MOT) 2359glenn......_our resident guru._
> 
> Good morning fellow Woo mates! Just heard from Glenn this morning. He was released from the hospital today, but faces another surgery next week. He'll be on medical leave for appx 6 weeks or more, before returning to action.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great news, hope he gets back to the best of health soon. Thanks for forwarding the message. In regards to the adaptor keph put a picture of.. I kind of liked the red cables on the black bass - could go without the printed label.. at this point though, id be happy with any adaptor.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Great news, hope he gets back to the best of health soon. Thanks for forwarding the message. In regards to the adaptor keph put a picture of.. I kind of liked the red cables on the black bass - could go without the printed label.. *at this point though, id be happy with any adaptor.*


 
   
   
  An ol' saying,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




starvation will make the Devil eat red pepper!


----------



## jc9394

Ever heard of fan cooled Woo? Well, it is so warm tonight that I have a small fan to cool the WA22. I was going to turn on the AC but wife said "REALLY", I guess fan will do for now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ever heard of fan cooled Woo? Well, it is so warm tonight that I have a small fan to cool the WA22. I was going to turn on the AC but wife said "REALLY", I guess fan will do for now.


 
   
  Spoken like a true Woo-audiophile. I really do admire the support she gives you, though.


----------



## keph

Yeah nowdays its so HOT here in Beijing, i also want to buy 2-3 small 4-5cm fan and put underneath my amp and dac omg the Stello DA220 is  HOT..
   
  About the adapter my Tube guy replied and he said that there is no stock at the moment for 596's but he will check his warehouse at the weekends and will confirm back to me. He says that he might have a stock of 2-3 596's at the warehouse..I replied to him and said " I'll have every 596's you have " hehe...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> An ol' saying,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  well said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Yeah nowdays its so HOT here in Beijing, i also want to buy 2-3 small 4-5cm fan and put underneath my amp and dac omg the Stello DA220 is  HOT..
> 
> About the adapter my Tube guy replied and he said that there is no stock at the moment for 596's but he will check his warehouse at the weekends and will confirm back to me. He says that he might have a stock of 2-3 596's at the warehouse..I replied to him and said " I'll have every 596's you have " hehe...


 
   
  I think one of the Hong Kong dealers had comfortable stock of USAF-596's and kept them for 30 years, if I remember correctly. No one was ever interested. Well, until this spring. In some ways, it is very fitting for the WooAudio to step up and step in and make these adapters for owners. After all, both the tube and the amp is helping to lift the profile of the other. Jack Wu is a very smart and prudent gentleman!


----------



## SeeHear

Hi, I could use some advice regarding tubes to try in my WA2. One of my tubes failed already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Can any of you experienced tube rollers recommend an upgrade that won't fail after less than 25 hours?  I was enjoying life before leaving to travel on business Monday morning.  I shut down everything and was on my way.  When I got home yesterday, I turned on the WA2, and 15 minutes later, when I turned on my amplifier, I was greeted by scary noises and no left channel ( I moved the tube per Jack to see if the problem followed the tube - it did).  It didn't have that frosty haze when I took a picture earlier today to send to Jack.  I don't think anyone used it while I was gone - my kids know better.  I'm at a loss as to why it failed so soon.
   
  Anyway,this seems like an upgrade opportunity!  I'd like to remove some of the (already slight) haze from the treble and get a little more image focus (bass is pretty good as it stands with current tube set).  Any advice for a long time audiophile but first time tube roller?
   
  Thanks,
  James


----------



## Silent One

Man, that's painful to look at! Just by chance, have you briefed your children on not cycling your amp? You know, turning it on and off...back on and back off? Yes, I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 they're so precious. But in audio, we gotta ask the tough questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You should receive great tube recommendations before the night is through! Best to you...


----------



## john57

Looks like the tube lost vacuum. Is there any cracks anywhere on the tube in question? Was there any indication that the tube might been bumped?


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Looks like the tube lost vacuum. Is there any cracks anywhere on the tube in question? Was there any indication that the tube might been bumped?


 

 The amp box was clearly pretty abused by FedEx when they delivered it - a corner was smashed and there is what looks like a fist print on the top.  There are no visible cracks though...


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Man, that's painful to look at! Just by chance, have you briefed your children on not cycling your amp? You know, turning it on and off...back on and back off? Yes, I know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, the kids know the deal.  The little ones, anyway.  The grown one is pretty hardheaded - I wouldn't put it past him to try it while I was out of town. Though he has very strict instructions not to touch, he still thinks he's slick...
   
  I'd say, overall, the chances of anyone touching it while I was gone are pretty low.


----------



## Silent One

Your misfortune aside, that's a good stand up shot!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

+1
   
   
  what tube is that btw, ive seen it before and its cool looking.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your misfortune aside, that's a good stand up shot!


 

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I'm listening to my old Creek and fiending for new tubes. Milcho Leviev and Dave Holland still sound pretty good through the Creek/650 combo.  I should go to sleep. Just one more track...


----------



## SeeHear




----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If I stop this practice, maybe I WILL GET TO SLEEP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least the price of your tube isn't too bad.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I stop this practice, maybe I WILL GET TO SLEEP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the support!  Hope you got some sleep, I didn't get enough.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I stop this practice, maybe I WILL GET TO SLEEP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 OK... Now I'm really confused - these tubes are any where from $24 to $400 a pair! Where is the sweet spot?  Gold pinned? Holland made?  Electro-Harmonix?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Around here they cost easily 50$ and more.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





seehear said:


> OK... Now I'm really confused - these tubes are any where from $24 to $400 a pair! Where is the sweet spot?  Gold pinned? Holland made?  Electro-Harmonix?


 
  I think you are looking in different brands.  The JJ is only $14 each.
   
  http://thetubestore.com/teslaecc88.html


----------



## jc9394

SeeHear,
   
  These two are good upgrade from JJ.
   
  http://thetubestore.com/goldlione88cc.html
  http://thetubestore.com/ehx6922gold.html


----------



## Silent One

My bad, SeeHear. We're just trying help you shop...with _your _money.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My bad, SeeHear. We're just trying help you shop...with* your money.*


 
   
  If that is the case, get this and be done with it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://thetubestore.com/tf-e88cc.html


----------



## Leon83

Is it ok using the WA6 when it's really hot in the room? Right now it's like 30 degrees celcius (86 F) inside the house. Can the amp overheat?


----------



## Silent One

86 F? _A walk in the park_, Leon83. Though, you may wanna reexamine spacing and ventilation. And observe duration...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If that is the case, get this and be done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Voila! Everyone should enjoy Personal Shoppers.


----------



## nututubes

Tough week for the wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  I love my Mullard ECC32s. Saw this today and couldn't resist.

   
  Earlier this week it was my favorite power tubes that called to me.
   

   
  eBay can be addictive yes?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Tough week for the wallet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice, as much I like to hear the ECC32, I can't justify it.


----------



## Silent One

nututubes - I just started using a Stand Up desk for my computers a few weeks ago. Invigorating. But, in this instance after seeing these pix, I think it best I sit down for a while...




   
  Congrats!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice, as much I like to hear the ECC32, I can't justify it.


 
  I could never justify this to my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but it was purchased with truly "disposable income", seriously, it's just for my amusement.


----------



## jc9394

nututubes said:


> I could never justify this to my wife :blink: , but it was purchased with truly "disposable income", seriously, it's just for my amusement.




I can justify it if I don't have a camera coming that I can never tell my wife the price is. WA5 plus upgrade terriorities.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I can justify it if I don't have a camera coming that I can never tell my wife the price is. WA5 plus upgrade terriorities.


 
  Nice John. I have all deliveries made to my work place. All purchases are made on a credit card she won't see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope.
  BTW, what camera?


----------



## jc9394

Nikon D800E with grip, extra battery, and a 85/f1.4. Yes it will ship to my work and using my CC that she have no access to.


----------



## keph

Yesterday the converter arrived...Now i just can wait to get some of the 596's
   
  Everyone likes pictures, well here you go..
   
      
   
   
  I prefer the cable coming out from the front than back...hehe


----------



## Silent One

_Your bottom photos illustrate_ _desire..._


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Your bottom photos illustrate_ _desire..._


 
   
  Yes!! ive been listening with my 6SE like that, without no Rectifier only the converters. That really shows how desperate am i for the 596's...hehe


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nikon D800E with grip, extra battery, and a 85/f1.4. Yes it will ship to my work and using my CC that she have no access to.


 
   
  Wow, treasure again, John.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We've got you firm in mind! If not for your blowing up EML Glass and Glenn's problem solving skills...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ut Oh!  I've been gone a few weeks and have fallen way behind!  Sorry for bringing this up again if it has indeed come to a conclusion.  I hope I didn't miss this....
   
  I have a 6SE and would love a pair of 596 with an adapter as well.  Am I too late??


----------



## Groundzero

SO,
  You can pop me on that list for a tube also so I have a back-up.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nope, Clayton and I have been coordinating to move a quantity of 10. Your pledge satisfies #9 & 10... it's a wrap!  Currently, fellow member keph has a dealer in China making adapters for the '596' @ $40. Pix posted a page or two back. WooAudio is about to produce some as well, likely $95 a pop.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> SO,
> You can pop me on that list for a tube also so I have a back-up.


 
   
  Thanks for the notice. Our commitment for 10 has been reached. However, I'll get you a back up one way or another. It's possible I can pry one from a member who simply has a backup of their backup to their single in-use '596.' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But first, I'll approach the seller to toss another one at me from across the pond.


----------



## keph

ill wait for my Tube seller's call today if he have the 596 on stock ill take all of them but if not ill sill join the group..Since im the only one in Beijing what im guessing is that it would be hard and time consuming for Clayton and ending up more costly to me + the shipping fees and all...ill have to wait till tonight if he does not call or reply my mail ill just grab 2 of this baby..or maybe i can PM Ultrainferno ( he's a buddy back when im using the LaFigaro 339 amp ) if he will ship separately to Beijing.
   
  Thank You everyone who made this even possible..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> ill wait for my Tube seller's call today if he have the 596 on stock ill take all of them but if not ill sill join the group..Since im the only one in Beijing what im guessing is that it would be hard and time consuming for Clayton and ending up more costly to me + the shipping fees and all...ill have to wait till tonight if he does not call or reply my mail ill just grab 2 of this baby..or maybe i can PM Ultrainferno ( he's a buddy back when im using the LaFigaro 339 amp ) if he will ship separately to Beijing.
> 
> Thank You everyone who made this even possible..


 
   





 I know he'd do it for you! But, he's really trying to avoid shipping to more than one party. It is his hope that Clayton (me in a pinch) would receive the bulk of the tubes and distribute them further from California.
   
  Keep me posted. Thanks, keph!


----------



## Ahzari

Is anyone going to "THE Show" in Newport next weekend?


----------



## Dixter

If you are ordering the adapters for the 596 ( on the previous page )... I'll take one please,  Thanks
   
  I'd like a set of these and a set of Jack Woo's when available...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





keph said:


> ...Since im the only one in Beijing what im_* guessing is that it would be hard and time consuming for Clayton *_and ending up more costly to me + the shipping fees and all...
> 
> Thank You everyone who made this even possible..


 
   
  The shipping fees and all could have ended up being more costly to you _but it would not be hard nor would it be time consuming_ for me to get those coveted 596s delivered to you and other members. With a little help from our friends, Ultrainferno and Silent One, we were each able to do our part in bringing peace, harmony and 596s to the people of the World Woo!


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nope, Clayton and I have been coordinating to move a quantity of 10. Your pledge satisfies #9 & 10... it's a wrap!  Currently, fellow member keph has a dealer in China making adapters for the '596' @ $40. Pix posted a page or two back. WooAudio is about to produce some as well, likely $95 a pop.


 
   
  Woo Hoo! _pun definitely intended  _
   
  You are the (Silent) Man!  Thank you!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The shipping fees and all could have ended up being more costly to you _but it would not be hard nor would it be time consuming_ for me to get those coveted 596s delivered to you and other members. With a little help from our friends, Ultrainferno and Silent One, we were each able to do our part in bringing peace, harmony and 596s to the people of the World Woo!


 
   
  I'm just glad everyone is happy. Thanks Silent one and Clayton!


----------



## jdmoorman

I would also like to get on the 596 list; tube and adapter.


----------



## grokit

Awesome that these have been unearthed, thanks to Glenn for bringing them to our attention, and to SO for unrelentingly and heroically pursuing them!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Awesome that these have been unearthed, thanks to Glenn for bringing them to our attention, and to SO for unrelentingly and heroically pursuing them!


 
   
_"C'mon, bang that drum Silent One!"_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jdmoorman said:


> I would also like to get on the 596 list; tube and adapter.


 
   
  Batteries not included (sold separately). Oh, sorry....wrong thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At this time, I know of three options for adapters:
   
  Dealer in China (now available)
  WooAudio           (available soon)
  2359glenn          (available soon)
   
  And interested members will have to pursue these on their own...with delight, mind you! Hope this helps, but will put you down for a USAF-596 rectifier. Please send keph a PM for more information regarding the dealer in China.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I nearly wish to remain silent over scoring singles, while you're delivering #10 lots.


----------



## fenom60

Can I be added on the 596 list as well , + adapter =D  PLEASE??


----------



## 188479

I would like to be on the 596 list as well!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> Can I be added on the 596 list as well , + adapter =D  PLEASE??


 
   
  Yes, I just returned to the listening room...and put you in the rotation. The adapter you'll have to pursue separately. Initially, I was going to have adapters made locally, and then ship them out. Then a fellow member approached WooAudio and got the ball rolling there. And another member has a dealer now making them as well (location: China). Even our very own 2359glenn may be able to assist later this summer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





188479 said:


> I would like to be on the 596 list as well!


 
   
  Got it! And to be fair, I'm slotting requests at the time they're received. I'll send occasional PM's to keep those on the list posted. Because deals can happen and/or change in an instant! One member may balk at a certain price, while another may just want to pull-the-trigger! So, I'll continue to share information as it comes down the pike.
   
  Also, if someone stumbles upon a source, please let the group know. Ok, after you've gotten yours.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, I just returned to the listening room...and put you in the rotation. The adapter you'll have to pursue separately. Initially, I was going to have adapters made locally, and then ship them out. Then a fellow member approached WooAudio and got the ball rolling there. And another member has a dealer now making them as well (location: China). Even our very own 2359glenn may be able to assist later this summer.


 
   
  If I have to order adapters for 596s, I would wait for Glenn coming back to us till this summer or pay more from Jack.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I really am excited about WooAudio stepping up to deliver what some of its owners wants - good business! Wouldn't it be somthing if Jack Wu decided to invest in a few lots of USAF-596's to offer for sale?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I really am excited about WooAudio stepping up to deliver what some of its owners wants - good business! Wouldn't it be somthing if Jack Wu decided to invest in a few lots of USAF-596's to offer for sale?


 
   
  He better sort out how to solve the problem of the 5U4G will blown on the WA5LE that Jac and Glenn already raised out, I still hear no answer or is it the only problem on my unit, no clue.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is true. Your amp has been at the center of this dialogue for some time. Thanks to your input here, I have observed a few back-and-forths between the parties and then... _silence._


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is true. Your amp has been at the center of this dialogue for some time. Thanks to your input here, I have observed a few back-and-forths between the parties and then... _silence._


 
   
  Correct, then Glenn has some finding about the 596 which can be used in the WA5LE safely and Clayton SF released the information in this forum, of course, most of us heard it better sounding than other much ecpensive rectifiers when we plugged it in. Jac and Glenn also advise some modification on the PSU unit and Jac's advise has passed to Jack for his comment but again, no answer since..................I already forgot how long it last.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I could remind you but 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....... you really don't want to know.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Is anyone going to "THE Show" in Newport next weekend?


 
   
   
  My interest is HIGH, my finances are LOW. Will try and redirect and shoot for the L.A. Meet in August.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My interest is HIGH, my finances are LOW. Will try and redirect and shoot for the L.A. Meet in August.


 
  Oh yes, I will just be attending as an observer.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my only other purchase for a while has been some vinyl/turntable upgrades and the hopefully forthcoming 596's with adaptors


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  An observer @ Newport, L.A. or both? Not ready to take a table for your Woo and accessories at the L.A. Meet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That, you already know a Headphone Model 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 would be a HUGE draw!


----------



## nututubes

Could someone help refresh my memory about EML 5U4G Mesh failures? I tried the search function but could not find the threads that I thought I remembered.
   
  I have had the same, original EML 5U4G mesh in my WA22 for almost 1 1/2  years now and last night while testing a new pair of Western Electric 421As, I heard a loud pop and saw a flash at start up. I listened for a while and heard/saw no problems. Luckily, no damage to the HD800s.
   
  I then allowed the amp to cool completely. I pulled the 421s out and put some TS 5998s that have been used for many hours. (great tubes!) What I saw this time at start up was a white spark in the EML. I heard no pop because this time the volume was at minimum *(note to self...always power up with volume at zero/minimum, which I usually do)*
   
  Now, according to the EML site:
_*If you ignore this design rule, tube damage will result. Also in many "professional" amplifiers, this design rule is not used by designers who do not read the historical data sheets Tube damage can result as a white spark inside the tube at switch on, filament material can chip off, or the tube life will be much reduced. With most amplifiers, the transformer winding is directly connected to the tube socket, and no protective series resistors are used. In most cases, the transformer resistance can be conveniently measured by a specialist, directly at the tube socket, when the rectifier tube is removed first. *_
   
  The rule referred to above is about resistors. Has this been discussed before, perhaps by Glenn?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> An observer @ Newport, L.A. or both? Not ready to take a table for your Woo and accessories at the L.A. Meet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  oh just at the Newport event, I'll try to bring something to the meet in LA (the real deal)


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Could someone help refresh my memory about EML 5U4G Mesh failures? I tried the search function but could not find the threads that I thought I remembered.
> 
> I have had the same, original EML 5U4G mesh in my WA22 for almost 1 1/2  years now and last night while testing a new pair of Western Electric 421As, I heard a loud pop and saw a flash at start up. I listened for a while and heard/saw no problems. Luckily, no damage to the HD800s.
> 
> ...


 
  Hello
  The amp has a resistor that gets jumped out with the time delay circuit. BUT the input capacitor after the rectifier is still way to big for a 5U4 that has a max capacitance
  of this cap at 40uf and they use 400uf.
     You can try and use the 596 rectifier if you can find one they will hold up better then a 5U4.
  You can't just add resistors without changing the power transformer or they will lower the B+ voltage in the amp seriously changing the sound and power.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn, welcome back.  Hope all is well.


----------



## grokit

nututubes said:


> Could someone help refresh my memory about EML 5U4G Mesh failures?




I had an EML 5U4G blow prematurely, and from what I remember at the time, EML had just done their second manufacturing revision to make them more reliable; I think that they were actually working with Jack Wu on this. I don't know the technicalities, but from what I understand the tubes are much more reliable now. Too bad yours didn't fail within the 1-year warranty period if you bought it new.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Glenn, welcome back.  Hope all is well.


 
  X2 - Nice to see you on the boards again Glenn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Glenn---It is great to see you posting once again even though don't understand some of it--But, mind you, one day I will comprehend all of it!


----------



## john57

On the EML web page
http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML5U4G.htm
   
  They stated that the tube heaters were improved after May of 2011. Not sure about the first cap issue.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





john57 said:


> On the EML web page
> http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML5U4G.htm
> 
> They stated that the tube heaters were improved after May of 2011. Not sure about the first cap issue.


 
  Hello
  The cap issue cannot be resolved and the tube still be a 5U4. Even the powerful 3DG4 that I like to use
  can only handle a 40uf input capacitor unless the amp has choke input before the cap.
   
  Buy the way I have to go back to the Hospital tomorrow hopefully for the last surgery.
  Glenn


----------



## jc9394

Good luck, take some rest after the surgery.  Health is more important.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Good luck, take some rest after the surgery.  Health is more important.


 
   
  x2!


----------



## Silent One

For those following @ home, this is how Glenn arrived at introducing the USAF-596 initially, over blown EML Glass issues in dannie01's amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Best to you , my friend!


----------



## john57

Glenn,
   
  Wish the best and a speedy recovery!


----------



## nututubes

2359glenn said:


> Hello
> The amp has a resistor that gets jumped out with the time delay circuit. BUT the input capacitor after the rectifier is still way to big for a 5U4 that has a max capacitance
> of this cap at 40uf and they use 400uf.
> You can try and use the 596 rectifier if you can find one they will hold up better then a 5U4.
> You can't just add resistors without changing the power transformer or they will lower the B+ voltage in the amp seriously changing the sound and power.




Thanks Glenn and best wishes.


----------



## nututubes

grokit said:


> Too bad yours didn't fail within the 1-year warranty period if you bought it new.




Actually, it has not failed. It sounds as good as it ever did. I was just inquiring about the past threads that had slipped from my memory. I have a spare EML and a Pricess 274B and a couple of Mullard rectifiers, GZ37, GZ33 & CV378, so I'm covered in an emergency.

But, I love the EML best. I have been thinking about trying a Mullard High Wycombe, and now the USAF 596 that is being discussed.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Buy the way I have to go back to the Hospital tomorrow hopefully for the last surgery.
> Glenn


 
   
  Good luck Glenn, All the best.. We all miss you...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is good to hear, nututubes (whew)!  Yes, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you really may want to try the USAF-596 just to have options. It's signature is not for everyone, but I recommend Woozies at least have a go at it.


----------



## Ahzari

Get well soon Glenn!


----------



## cacatalysis

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Hello
> The cap issue cannot be resolved and the tube still be a 5U4. Even the powerful 3DG4 that I like to use
> can only handle a 40uf input capacitor unless the amp has choke input before the cap.
> 
> ...


 
  Good luck and best wishes.


----------



## grokit

Best wishes for a speedy recovery Glenn.

Nunutubes, for some reason I thought you had said that you had one blow after 1.5 years, my mistake!


----------



## jc9394

I have not used my EMLs much lately even they are my favorite, both sound and mostly look (love the glow on a cold night).  With the 596 and GZ34/37, they simply don't get much love.
   
  Nututubes, keep an eye on it.  I may just the beginning of end of life.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nututubes, keep an eye on it.  I may just the beginning of end of life.


 
  I don't mind if the EML is E.O.L., I just don't want it to end my ECC32's life or my TS 5998's life when it does die.
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nunutubes, for some reason I thought you had said that you had one blow after 1.5 years, my mistake!


 
  No problem.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I don't mind if the EML is E.O.L., I just don't want it to end my ECC32's life or my TS 5998's life when it does die.
> No problem.


 
   
  Replace the ECC32 for a while to see if they are causing any issues.  Remember Danny?  His ECC32 dies around the same time as the EML.


----------



## nututubes

Thanks John, I guess I'll roll something different in for a while. I have some TS 6sn7 and TS 68fg.


----------



## musicman59

Good luck Glenn and a fast recovery. We will be here waiting for you.


----------



## Silent One

I have grown as a head-fier since Glenn's participation in this thread...


----------



## mataemas

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Got it! And to be fair, I'm slotting requests at the time they're received. I'll send occasional PM's to keep those on the list posted. Because deals can happen and/or change in an instant! One member may balk at a certain price, while another may just want to pull-the-trigger! So, I'll continue to share information as it comes down the pike.
> 
> Also, if someone stumbles upon a source, please let the group know. Ok, after you've gotten yours.


 
  I would like to be on the 596 list as well!, just got the WA6SE.
  Thanks.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Replace the ECC32 for a while to see if they are causing any issues.  Remember Danny?  His ECC32 dies around the same time as the EML.


 
   
  Don't remind me that again, please!


----------



## kchew

I'm a bit slow here, but get well soon Glenn! I'll be needing 6F8G adaptors from you soon.


----------



## dannie01

After jc9394's kindly remind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I put the ECC32s back to have them try again in the WA5LE. It's strange enough, they work again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. No clue why, will it be the combo of 596 make them work again or just some kind of magic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Only few minutes music playing, dying flash? Who knows.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Don't remind me that again, please!


 
  Sorry buddy...
   
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> After jc9394's kindly remind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Send it my way to test it for you.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Maybe it can't handle the power of WA5LE?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Send it my way to test it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You maybe right, PM me your address and I'll send them to you right the way.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Sorry buddy...
> 
> 
> Send it my way to test it for you.
> ...


 
  The power of the WA5-LE is no problem for the ECC32. I have two pairs and never had a problem with either the EML 5U4G Mesh or the 596.
   
  Now some Woo glow ……..
   
  Pair of 596 in the dark.

   
  One of the EML 300B Mesh and pair of TS BGRP 6SN7GT on the left.

   
  WA5LE "Black Beauty" in the dark...


----------



## madbull

A little help: Someone could recommend tubes to upgrade my WA3 (all stock)?


----------



## steel108

Still need to get a Mac Mini for my music so I can move everything to my bedroom (might also get a Sieveking Sound stand), but I'm loving the HD800 + WA22 + Yulong D18 combo. I had no idea the D18 was so small (at least compared to the WA22). Was hoping to stack it on my desk. Might pickup another D18 and A18 for my desk...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





steel108 said:


> Still need to get a Mac Mini for my music so I can move everything to my bedroom (might also get a Sieveking Sound stand), but I'm loving the HD800 + WA22 + Yulong D18 combo. I had no idea the D18 was so small (at least compared to the WA22). Was hoping to stack it on my desk. Might pickup another D18 and A18 for my desk...


 
   
  Nicely presented. I've always enjoyed the form factor of my Mac mini music server and its place inside the listening room.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  At-a-glance, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought I was viewing a slide presentation from Cal Tech. Looking wonderfully s-p-a-c-e-y. . .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





madbull said:


> A little help: Someone could recommend tubes to upgrade my WA3 (all stock)?


 
   
  I'll tip off a few WA3 owners to your post...


----------



## hodgjy

The power tube has the largest effect on sound, so don't go overboard trying to track down some exotic Telefunken or Bugle Boy pre-amp tubes. Sure, the pre-amp tubes do affect the sound, but not as much as the power tube. For the pre-amp tubes, look into the Sylvania JAN 6DJ8. I've tried a variety of tubes, and these are among the better ones. Best part is they are relatively cheap compared to others. Get those for starters, and perhaps, be done with it.

The power tube is the most important. The best sounding ones are now extremely rare and uber expensive. In a perfect world, you'd want a GEC 6AS7G or a Tung-Sol 5998. Since those are rare and now require a mortgage, look into these:

RCA 6SA7G. It's a great tube, but can be noisy.
GE 6AS7GA. It's a very good tube and also dirt cheap.
Svetlana 6H13C. It's from Russia. Very warm, some veil, but no noise to speak of.

I'd try those for starters. I really didn't like any of the 6080 tubes I tried. Also, don't be tricked into getting a 5998A tube thinking it is a 5998 because they are different. There are some good 5998A tubes out there, but you're better off trying the other tubes first.

There are also the 7236 tubes, but those are over priced for the performance they offer. If you're curious about tube rolling, try the tubes I mentioned first because they are easy to find and relatively cheap. In the WA3 amp, getting more expensive and exotic tubes really surpasses the law of diminishing returns. You'd be better off getting a better amp before going crazy on the tubes. Trust me, I've been there and done that with my WA3 adventures.



madbull said:


> A little help: Someone could recommend tubes to upgrade my WA3 (all stock)?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> The power of the WA5-LE is no problem for the ECC32. I have two pairs and never had a problem with either the EML 5U4G Mesh or the 596.
> 
> Now some Woo glow ……..




We knew that, it is just a joke between me and Danny.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  ... and me as a spectator.


----------



## madbull

Thanks Silent One and hodgjy, much appreciated!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> We knew that, it is just a joke between me and Danny.


 
   
  It crossed my mind but dam! I fell into it


----------



## hodgjy

You are more than welcome! I've learned so very much in this here thread. I'm paying it back and forward.



madbull said:


> Thanks Silent One and hodgjy, much appreciated!


----------



## BIG POPPA

madbull said:


> A little help: Someone could recommend tubes to upgrade my WA3 (all stock)?



I can help with the WA3 tubes. I have all the good power tubes, Gec, bendix, Mullard. And many ecc88 tubes. If you like to rock bendix, if like electronic classical, female voices, Gec. To me the best tube to start IMO is the tungsol 5998 variant. The Gec will be too addictive. For pre tubes, amperex is a good place to start. I like the tesla rhodium pins e88cc's but my wa3 has black gates, rhodium iiec and wbt rca's. And I use herbie tube dampers and maple shade brass footers. Anyway, hope this helps


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> It crossed my mind but dam! I fell into it




It is well documented that I will not pay full NOS price on ECC32.


----------



## navii

I want to connect the headphone out (WA6) to the input on my receiver (HK3490) so i can hear what the tubes in the stream do to the sound of my speakers.
   
  So it will be like this: MacBook > DAC > WA6 > HK349 > Speakers
   
  Sounds like a terrible thing to do?


----------



## hodgjy

I wouldn't do it. It's double amping that can lead to many undesirable things. At minimum, it just won't sound optimal because it's not the proper way to send an input signal to an amp. At worst, you may have clipping and all of its associated badness. It's going to be more volts than the amp is expecting.



navii said:


> I want to connect the headphone out (WA6) to the input on my receiver (HK3490) so i can hear what the tubes in the stream do to the sound of my speakers.
> 
> So it will be like this: MacBook > DAC > WA6 > HK349 > Speakers
> 
> Sounds like a terrible thing to do?


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi,
   
  RCA 6AS7G's are really worm and sound quite nice. The natural upgrade would be a Tung-Sol 5998 or 7236. The 5998 is quite warm but is far superior in every way compared to a 6AS7G or 6080W. The 7236 is a computer calibrated 5998 and offers a more "solid state" sound, being that it's more neutral over the others. 
   
  Good cheap driver tubes would be some older RCA 6922's or some Russian 6N1P's. The RCA 6922's are warm and smooth but lack some detail. They are just a pleasure to listen to. The 6N1P's are even warmer IMO and sound more intimate. The soundstage is smaller than the others but it's not bad.
   
  Those are some good tubes to consider.
   
  Quote: 





madbull said:


> A little help: Someone could recommend tubes to upgrade my WA3 (all stock)?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> The power of the WA5-LE is no problem for the ECC32. I have two pairs and never had a problem with either the EML 5U4G Mesh or the 596.


 
   
  Good to know musicman59, how long the ECC32s being used in the WA5LE with EML 5U4G?


----------



## navii

Cool, thanks. So basically, I will be getting an unclear impression of what "tubes" sound like.
   
  I might have to get a tube pre-amp for the receiver.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> It crossed my mind but dam! I fell into it


----------



## SeeHear

navii said:


> I want to connect the headphone out (WA6) to the input on my receiver (HK3490) so i can hear what the tubes in the stream do to the sound of my speakers.
> 
> So it will be like this: MacBook > DAC > WA6 > HK349 > Speakers
> 
> Sounds like a terrible thing to do?



 
 Not at all. Of course, be very careful with the levels - start at 0 and increase gain slowly. Make sure your WA6 is completely warmed up before turning on your speaker amp and enjoy! Let us know your impressions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





madbull said:


> Thanks Silent One and hodgjy, much appreciated!


 
   
  You're welcome, madbull. Though, all I did was stand by and watch. I'd like to thank hodgjy, BIG POPPA and Zombie_X for stopping by to give you a hand.


----------



## madbull

I just bought a Tung Sol 5998...  thank you all for the tips!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Good to know musicman59, how long the ECC32s being used in the WA5LE with EML 5U4G?


 
  I used them for about 6 months but now I am using the 596. The EML are stored.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Can you guys remind me how I can order one of these? I want to have one on the way since I just ordered the 596 a couple of days ago. I searched a bunch but never found a link or eBay seller.



keph said:


> It's made...Now i just have to wait to get some 596's and test the converter...The material is using Teflon sockets and wire...my Tube Seller haven't replied my e-mail...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Prior to the USAF-596's arrival, I had been using EML Glass. But once it did, I immediately thought "proceeds" from the sale of the EML - I could have bought 10 USAF-596's; a few albums from HDTracks; dinner for two before the night's listening session with honey. And still have change in my pocket!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Can you guys remind me how I can order one of these? I want to have one on the way since I just ordered the 596 a couple of days ago. I searched a bunch but never found a link or eBay seller.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Send keph a PM...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Kicking back and listening to Melody Gardot's new album The Absence that I just downloaded on HDTracks. It sounds freaking awesome on the WA22.

Ever since I dropped in the Sophia Princess 274b mesh plate rectifier, my WA22 has been so engaging. Can't wait to try out the 596.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice.


----------



## Sid-Fi

PM sent...



silent one said:


> Send keph a PM...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> very nice.


 
   
  Have you started rolling recs yet? EML, Mullard, Tung-Sol, United Electronics (596) and so on...


----------



## Loevhagen

Never mind....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> PM sent...
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm interested in the seller's contact as well.


----------



## longbowbbs

SeeHear, 2 questions for you.....
   




   
   
  Stock tubes?  Is that a Denon SACD?  Looking really sharp!


----------



## Hiyono

Hi,  I been thinking of joining the Club and getting a Woo Audio WA22.  I was wonder what tubes would be a good match for the LCD3?  Want to do some research on tubes before I buy it. 
   
  Ones I see often posted are the Sylvania 7236, Shuguang CV181-Z Treasures, EML 5U4G, Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B. What other ones would roll nicely?
   
  If I buy an Upgrade tube from Woo audio.  Is it just an upgrade or will they include the original tube too?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Original tube will be included.


----------



## grokit

*Hiyono*, those tubes that you mentioned are great upgrades, I prefer the Princess to the EML with those others myself but that's with the LCD-2; they're both great tubes. The stock tubes come with the amp, it's good to have a baseline before you roll in the upgraded tubes (which you buy separately).


----------



## Silent One

I think we should learn of his musical preference for the rec round - Miss Sophia or EML Glass.




   
  I think this site could use a Haagen-Dazs emoticon. The music sounded better tonight with Dulce de Leche.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Just picked up a pair of 1951-1952 Raytheon 6SN7GT tubes on eBay. They have the staggered plates. Has anyone heard these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261022878802#ht_2137wt_922


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Just picked up a pair of 1951-1952 Raytheon 6SN7GT tubes on eBay. They have the staggered plates. Has anyone heard these?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261022878802#ht_2137wt_922


 
   
  Nice pick, they look very nic.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I used them for about 6 months but now I am using the 596. The EML are stored.


 
   
  Me too, I stored the normal EML (of course, I have only one left), the Mullard GZ34 fat base and GZ37 when the 596s arrived and putting in the WA5LE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Prior to the USAF-596's arrival, I had been using EML Glass. But once it did, I immediately thought "proceeds" from the sale of the EML - I could have bought 10 USAF-596's; a few albums from HDTracks; dinner for two before the night's listening session with honey. And still have change in my pocket!


 
   
  Do you think I can sell a used but very nice working condition EML 5U4G with good price.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Me too, I stored the normal EML (of course, I have only one left), the Mullard GZ34 fat base and GZ37 when the 596s arrived and putting in the WA5LE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Those seem to be going for around $125, depending on the age and number of hours.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Those seem to be going for around $125, depending on the age and number of hours.


 
   
  Thanks dminches, it should be about 200-300 hrs in use.


----------



## Hiyono

Quote: 





grokit said:


> *Hiyono*, those tubes that you mentioned are great upgrades, I prefer the Princess to the EML with those others myself but that's with the LCD-2; they're both great tubes. The stock tubes come with the amp, it's good to have a baseline before you roll in the upgraded tubes (which you buy separately).


 
   
  Both of those look like amazing tubes.  I would Love to see them glow .  What would you say would be the main difference between the two?  
  That's a great idea.  I will definitely try out the stock tubes for a bit before some upgrades.  Some do cost quite a bit . 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I think we should learn of his musical preference for the rec round - Miss Sophia or EML Glass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your completely right Silent One.  I should of included what type of music.   Let's see.  I like listening to Female vocals.  Anime songs like Supercell group, Jrpg themes (played FFXI for few years, Never got tired of the music ^^), American pop/rock(sometimes Chinese),  I like hearing pianos, and guitars.  Not good with the terms.  I like my music smooth, clear, and detailed.  I like to hear the difference instruments.  Thanks for helping me out.


----------



## grokit

For me with those tubes, the Princess provides more focused imaging while the EML has a better soundstage.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Just picked up a pair of 1951-1952 Raytheon 6SN7GT tubes on eBay. They have the staggered plates. Has anyone heard these?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261022878802#ht_2137wt_922


 
   
  Looks like a good pair at a good price. Have not heard that particular vintage. But, ran 1948 Raytheon 6SN7W's of similar construction in my _WA 6 Special Edition_ and enjoyed them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> For me with those tubes, the Princess provides more focused imaging while the EML has a better soundstage.


 
   
  I agree. And dare to say Miss Sophia was more intimate, which is why I found her to be a big winner with Jazz. Smoother and better bottom end notes that Bass & Percussion tend to like in Jazz. Smooth too. However, I found the EML Glass to render better detail; soundstage but lacked the fullness of Miss Sophia.


----------



## Hiyono

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I agree. And dare to say Miss Sophia was more intimate, which is why I found her to be a big winner with Jazz. Smoother and better bottom end notes that Bass & Percussion tend to like in Jazz. Smooth too. However, I found the EML Glass to render better detail; soundstage but lacked the fullness of Miss Sophia.


 
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> For me with those tubes, the Princess provides more focused imaging while the EML has a better soundstage.


 
   
   
   
  Gah.  Might have to eventually one day get both.  lol. Thanks grokit and Silent One.  Those are good descriptions.  
   
  Which Part of LA are you from Silent One?  I'm in East Hacienda/Rowland Heights.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hiyono said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What I recommend is buying one or the other, pre-owned if you'd like, we don't judge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then try to get a fellow member to let you audition the one not bought. But give yourself a good month at least with the first tube. And at least 21 days with the second. Ideally, you want to live with the tubes briefly. The benefits here is that you have an opportunity for your emotions and daily rhythms of life to run their course.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hiyono said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  You're welcome. Several, though my last stake was in the Ladera community (La Cienega Blvd & W. Centinela Blvd). Temporarily away on personal matters... _though music travels well. _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  A decent price, as they don't depreciate very well, but still a wonderful tube mind you. It's just that there are far more alternatives to the glass at much lower prices. Then too, the _Mighty 596_ is well.... too mighty for some to listen to, so there's still room for the EML to thrive.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice description SO. Perhaps that is why I love the Princess so much. Most of my audIo collection and listening time have gone to jazz such as instrumental quartet albums. I find the princess to be an almost perfect balance between warm and smooth, yet fast and precise - with a nice soundstage as well. 

The Princess also pairs really well with my 1950s Sylvania chrome top 6sn7 chrome top driver tubes. Together they have an awesome intimate, warm, and engaging sound but still have nice imaging and stage. 



silent one said:


> I agree. And dare to say Miss Sophia was more intimate, which is why I found her to be a big winner with Jazz. Smoother and better bottom end notes that Bass & Percussion tend to like in Jazz. Smooth too. However, I found the EML Glass to render better detail; soundstage but lacked the fullness of Miss Sophia.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Speaking of my Sylvania 6sn7 drivers tubes, I am getting tempted to try a couple more options from the really respected old stock tubes. I guess Since I only paid $40 for them I keep catching myself wondering if some of the more exotic and pricier tubes might be noticeably better.

The only expensive driver tube I have tried so far is the Tung-Sol 6F8G. While it is a great tube, I definitely prefer the cheaper Sylvania for its amazingly lush and engaging mids. The other tubes I am tempted to try are mainly the RCA VT231 smoke glass, TS black glass round plates, or the even older 1940's Sylvania VT231. 

Anyone have any thoughts on these options considering my preferences described in my last post above?

I found a bunch of RCA VT231 smoke glass that seem to have tested well all listed for $30 each. Wonder why these are so much cheaper. I usually see them at $60-70. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-VT-231-6SN7GT-Smoked-Glass-Vacuum-Tube-Tested-Gm-Ip-Gain-Noise-AK-/400294369573?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d33675925#ht_838wt_689


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Nice description SO. Perhaps that is why I love the Princess so much. Most of my audIo collection and listening time have gone to jazz such as instrumental quartet albums. I find the princess to be an almost perfect balance between warm and smooth, yet fast and precise - with a nice soundstage as well.
> 
> The Princess also pairs really well with my 1950s Sylvania chrome top 6sn7 chrome top driver tubes. Together they have an awesome intimate, warm, and engaging sound but still have nice imaging and stage.
> Quote:
> ...


 
   
  If I weren't so poor, I simply would have kept both rectifiers. Ultimately, I had to break up with Miss Sophia in order to be able to hang out with the EML...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Speaking of my Sylvania 6sn7 drivers tubes, I am getting tempted to try a couple more options from the really respected old stock tubes. I guess Since I only paid $40 for them I keep catching myself wondering if some of the more exotic and pricier tubes might be noticeably better.
> 
> The only expensive driver tube I have tried so far is the Tung-Sol 6F8G. While it is a great tube, I definitely prefer the cheaper Sylvania for its amazingly lush and engaging mids. The other tubes I am tempted to try are mainly the RCA VT231 smoke glass, TS black glass round plates, or the even older 1940's Sylvania VT231.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No thoughts at this writing. Though, I am curious if you might move the TS-BGRP 6F8G's...


----------



## dminches

Sid-Fi, you should visit the 6SN7 addicts forum on Head-FI to hear about different impressions. From my experience the TS BGRPs > Sylvania VT-231s > RCA VT 231. However, the TS are 4 times the price of the others. 

All 3 tubes are nice tubes. 

The seller Walt2680 is a very good seller. I have purchased quite a bit from him.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Actually I just decided today to move them and maybe even my Woo adapters for them as well, but hadn't listed them yet.

​


silent one said:


> No thoughts at this writing. Though, I am curious if you might move the TS-BGRP 6F8G's...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Actually I just decided today to move them and maybe even my Woo adapters for them as well, but hadn't listed them yet.
> ​  Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmmm... will put together a PM containing lots and lots of $$$ after a late lunch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok, maybe no cash but a couple of questions that are convertible to cash.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for sharing. I'm glad to hear that you recognize the seller because I ordered a pair of his vt231 smoke glass. I checked the date codes and they were early 1940s and the tests results looked good. It was nice having so many to choose from. I ended up picking a couple of the quietest per his measurements that still had good scores.

I have read a bunch of impressions on the 6sn7 reference thread, which put the options I outlined on my radar. However with so many vintage year differences etc it's a little overwhelming.



dminches said:


> Sid-Fi, you should visit the 6SN7 addicts forum on Head-FI to hear about different impressions. From my experience the TS BGRPs > Sylvania VT-231s > RCA VT 231. However, the TS are 4 times the price of the others.
> All 3 tubes are nice tubes.
> The seller Walt2680 is a very good seller. I have purchased quite a bit from him.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hehe. Look forward to your PM. 



silent one said:


> Hmmm... will put together a PM containing lots and lots of $$$ after a late lunch. :evil:  Ok, maybe no cash but a couple of questions that are convertible to cash.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Woot! Just noticed I finally hit 500 posts. It only took me 3 years lol. What better way to do it than tube rolling posts on the WAAOU thread


----------



## steel108

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nicely presented. I've always enjoyed the form factor of my Mac mini music server and its place inside the listening room.


 
   
  I was just going to buy the Mac Mini, but I don't see anything mentioned about a digital or coaxil S/PDIF.... does the mini come with either one?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Woot! Just noticed I finally hit 500 posts. It only took me 3 years lol. What better way to do it than tube rolling posts on the WAAOU thread


 
  gratz


----------



## obzilla

Just a little Woo porn along with some new cans. So far a good pairing.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Just a little Woo porn along with some new cans. So far a good pairing.


 
   
  Oh cool! didnt know the HD700s were out yet.. how do they sound with your Woo?


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Oh cool! didnt know the HD700s were out yet.. how do they sound with your Woo?


 
  *Almost* as good as the T1.  If your a fan, they're in that league, sound sig. Different, but round thereabouts.
   
  They've got some faults. Mids are pulled back a bit for me, treble is nice except for a hotspot in there somewhere that comes out on some tracks, bass is 'better' for me than the HD800. Perhaps not the sub bass detail, but it has some physicality to it. Some slam. Not LCD2 or Ultrason 900, but more so than the 800, bout like the T1, perhaps more detailed though.
  Pretty fun faults and all. I've only heard them on the Woo, so I can't speak to anything else. I'm gonna keep em around for a bit.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> Just a little Woo porn along with some new cans. So far a good pairing.


 
   
  Nice pic obzilla.
   
  That would be great if someone can let me know how the WA5LE sounds with the Fostex TH900. I am struggling with the Fostex and LCD-3.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *obzilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Just a little Woo porn along with some new cans. So far a good pairing.


 
   
   
  Seems a bit evil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on your part. On a Sunday, no less!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





steel108 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, it does. The little one (Mac mini) features both Analog & Digital Out. Both from the headphone jack in the rear. It is here, where I once used my Wireworld Supernova 6 Optical cable with mini-TOSlink to TOSlink connector to connect my DACs or USB bridge.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice Obzilla! As a long time HD 650 owner, those HD700 have my attention.


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Nice pic obzilla.
> 
> That would be great if someone can let me know how the WA5LE sounds with the Fostex TH900. I am struggling with the Fostex and LCD-3.


 
   
  That's a pretty sweet dilema you've got there!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





obzilla said:


> That's a pretty sweet dilema you've got there!


 
   
  Actually, the LCD-3 is still on top of my wish list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I do really want to know how TH900 sound driven by WA5LE.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Actually, the LCD-3 is still on top of my wish list   but I do really want to know how TH900 sound driven by WA5LE.



Got a suggestion, why not both?


----------



## Nosbig

Been meanin' to say this for awhile...
   
  @Dubstep Girl
   
  As shyness procludes me, The Prodigy says their next album WON'T be dubstep. EEEK, not dubstep! They were pioneers of this genre, and with the latter said, Jeez I hope this album will be good.
   
  Communicating for the sake of conversation,
  Nosbig


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Got a suggestion, why not both?


 
   
  I see devil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 floating around.


----------



## steel108

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, it does. The little one features both Analog & Digital Out. Both from the headphone jack in the rear. It is here, where I once used my Wireworld Supernova 6 Optical cable with mini-TOSlink to TOSlink connector to connect my DACs or USB bridge.


 
   
  Sweet, I thought it would be like a Macbook Pro with the Toslink in the same input as the headphone. Just wanted to doublecheck.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





steel108 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not sure why, but the mini sure does look like it'd be fun to toss discus style. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not with my mini though, I'll wait for it to break or something. I really liked my WW Supernova 6 Glass Optical - a very fine cable. But my current connection is better, so...
  USB>USBridge>DAC


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





nosbig said:


> Been meanin' to say this for awhile...
> 
> @Dubstep Girl
> 
> ...


----------



## fenom60

If anyone is interested in a 5U4G -> 596 adapter. Jack will be making some. He told me today
   
  "[size=11pt]We found 24pcs of 8p to 4p adapters in the inventory and we can make these for 596. Will you like a pair?[/size]
 [size=12pt] [size=11pt] [/size][/size]

 [size=12pt] [size=11pt]Jack[/size][/size]


----------



## keph

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> If anyone is interested in a 5U4G -> 596 adapter. Jack will be making some. He told me today
> 
> "[size=11pt]We found 24pcs of 8p to 4p adapters in the inventory and we can make these for 596. Will you like a pair?[/size]
> [size=12pt] [size=11pt] [/size][/size]
> ...


 
   
  Interesting, any price for now??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> If anyone is interested in a 5U4G -> 596 adapter. Jack will be making some. He told me today
> 
> "[size=11pt]We found 24pcs of 8p to 4p adapters in the inventory and we can make these for 596. Will you like a pair?[/size]
> [size=12pt] [size=11pt] [/size][/size]
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As an alternative, we're waiting to hear from you on how to contact your dealer in China...


----------



## 188479

Price is $50.00, just ordered one from Jack.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Price is $50.00, just ordered one from Jack.


 
   
  With you nearly being next door to WooAudio, be sure to post the first pix!


----------



## 188479

Quote: 





> With you nearly being next door to WooAudio, be sure to post the first pix!


 
   
  Will do, but I don't think its going to happen quickly.  My amp is due to ship out in 2 weeks and Jack was not sure the adapter would be ready by then.
   
  On another note, has Woo moved their base of operations?  They were always in Brooklyn, but the bill of sale I received for the amp shows an Elmsford NY address....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Price is $50.00, just ordered one from Jack.


 
   
   
  oooh not bad


----------



## Ahzari

Made an order form Jack as well for the 596 adaptor, thanks for the info fenom60


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Their Ads, websites and press releases always showed Queens. What I think I remember anyway. But, documents always show Elmsford, NY. Maybe their operations are split. Think like a sports franchise might play in a stadium. But offices and practice facilities might be some 45-60 minutes away. Curious though...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Made an order form Jack as well for the 596 adaptor, thanks for the info fenom60


 
   





 And you know I can't wait to check that bad boy out... right after the Th-900's! Some moons back, I use to research World music at the Student Media Center - UC Irvine. Had I known you then or be researching music now... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's alright, I'd make a special trip for you, my friend.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Their Ads, websites and press releases always showed Queens. What I think I remember anyway. But, documents always show Elmsford, NY. Maybe their operations are split. Think like a sports franchise might play in a stadium. But offices and practice facilities might be some 45-60 minutes away. Curious though...


 
   
  Home as office and warehouse as manufacture?  I did recall Jack do not allow visit when I was in NY for few weeks.


----------



## Silent One

It's something like that. A small place for manufacturing and then perhaps, management from home. I'm all for low overhead that saves on retail pricing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wait... The Angels have WooAudio beat. They're known as the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  *** Btw... _Go LA Kings!!! ***_
   
  Not that this is how WooAudio is laid out. But if it were, cheers all the same!




   
  Since I sip French bubbly, I need a Champagne toasting emoticon.


----------



## jc9394

Dom or Cristal? You are really my long lost brother!!!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Dom or Cristal? You are really my long lost brother!!!


 
   
  What about both, like LCD-3 and Fostex TH900? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   







   
   
   
 ​


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> What about both, like LCD-3 and Fostex TH900?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My other evil twin. If I stop drinking, I can easily afford both LCD-3 and Fostex. Let me call my wine girl in CA stop shipping me wines.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> My other evil twin. If I stop drinking, I can easily afford both LCD-3 and Fostex. Let me call my wine girl in CA stop shipping me wines.


 
   
  You don't have to, just drink less you still can afford both.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As an alternative, we're waiting to hear from you on how to contact your dealer in China...


 
   
  It may take a while since i haven't got my 596 yet and haven't tested the adapters yet..ill be getting 2 pcs of 596 by the end of next week since my tube seller is off to business trip..
   
  Meanwhile since the price from Woo is 50$ and my converter seller charges 40$ my bet will be the Woo since it must be a much more professional job by Jack and it has WOO on it..hehe..( i might get one too for a Duel hehe..)


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You don't have to, just drink less you still can afford both.


 
   
  +1...one of my fav is drinking a bottle of Penfolds Bin 707 while listening to any of my Headphones attached to the WOO...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> +1...one of my fav is drinking a bottle of Penfolds Bin 707 while listening to any of my Headphones attached to the WOO...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And you know I can't wait to check that bad boy out... right after the Th-900's! Some moons back, I use to research World music at the Student Media Center - UC Irvine. Had I known you then or be researching music now...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha sounds good! I actually graduated from UCI that would have been some fun audio research 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. Yea very excited to try the TH900s with the 596. Wondering how Jacks adaptor will look on the WA6SE. I asked him what color it is - he said its the white teflon (assuming the same as the ones used for the other driver tube adaptors) with black wires.
   
  I actually ended up returning my Pro-Ject turntable for an upgrade (wasn't crazy about the Debut Carbon); once I put everything in hopefully I can borrow my sisters pro camera and take some worthy photos.
   
  BTW: gotta love Felix the Cat


----------



## Sid-Fi

Oh my wow. I just got the Fleetwood Mac Rumours cd that I had ordered. After having heard it all growing up, I never felt the need to buy it since I have gotten into head-fi a few years ago. Big mistake. 

It's totally blowing my mind hearing it again now on my WA22 with great tubes, especially now that my musical appreciation is light years beyond where it used to be. The acoustics on Never Going Back Again...wow.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Dom or Cristal? *You are really my long lost brother!!!*


 
   





... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's what I been trying to tell you!!!




   
   
_"Mama... JC won't let me use his headphones!"_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh boy... I'm going to need a job.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  She's already following you on Twitter... just announce!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Does this mean his contact info won't be made available? Also, are you getting your rectifiers from him or Ultrainferno?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congrats on leaving university as a full-fledged Anteater! Can't wait to see your replacement TT... with a Pro Camera especially!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does this mean his contact info won't be made available? Also, are you getting your rectifiers from him or Ultrainferno?


 
   
  I contacted the converter seller through a Chinese IM called QQ do you want his number 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... im getting it from Ultra by next week..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Pair of 596's - glad it all worked out. I was trying to get his contact info simply to provide more options to the membership. Didn't know you had him on Speed dial, now that's living!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pair of 596's - glad it all worked out. I was trying to get his contact info simply to provide more options to the membership. Didn't know you had him on Speed dial, now that's living!


 
   
  he's just an old buddy...but yeah he is busy so i might find another supplier...it has been weeks since ive waited for him to send me the tubes but nothing till now...


----------



## emremusic

Hello Woo audio friends...
   
  Just letting you know, unfortunately I will be selling my Woo Audio 6se in August. (I'm moving countries, and I need to downsize...I will build a portable system instead of my current desktop set)
   
   
  I had ordered it with the black gate upgrades. It also comes with 6gl7 to 6de7 adaptor, 4 pairs of 6gl7 tubes (3 pairs unused) Sophia princess, two sizes of umbilical cords, and many many other tubes. 
   
  I may sell it along with my akg702s and dacport lx dac for the complete set up. 
   
  Do you know what a fair asking price is for a system like this?? I've never sold or bought anything from head-fi before. 
   
   
  It is the perfect system....unfortunately I must use let it go


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You don't have to, just drink less you still can afford both.


 

 That may work but than I can only able to afford either one.  But wait, I have all my toy budget used up on a camera...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





keph said:


> +1...one of my fav is drinking a bottle of Penfolds Bin 707 while listening to any of my Headphones attached to the WOO...


 
   
  Another expensive guy here...  I do like the Dominus, Duck Horn, and Chateau St Jeans Cinq Cepages...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oh boy... I'm going to need a job.


 

 I assume so, since the WAAOU is an exclusive club with expensive taste.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> She's already following you on Twitter... just announce!


 
  Yes, she does but she can get me those limited release vintages..


----------



## jc9394

A very serious question, I have HD800 and LCD-2 and love them both.  Should I get an AKG K702???


----------



## obzilla

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A very serious question, I have HD800 and LCD-2 and love them both.  Should I get an AKG K702???


 
   
  I liked both of those phones very much. But I hated the AKGs. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## hodgjy

That's a great question and I have troubles with this very thing as well.  I always tend to think people think their stuff is worth more than it is, but on the flip side, I tend to ask too little for my stuff because I always want a quick sale.  So, my gut tells me the best number is somewhere in the middle.
   
  When pricing the amp (just the amp package, no headphones included), I also think the extra tubes don't add much value to the package.  The reason being is that the buyer would likely want to roll in his/her own tubes.  So, unless the buyer wants those exact tubes you are offering, they won't be of value.  Furthermore, if they add to the price of the amp, you may have lost that buyer.  I think your price should reflect the happy medium here.  You want to sweeten the deal for the buyer a little, but you don't want to lose too much yourself, and you also don't want to drive off buyers not willing to pay extra for tubes they don't want.
   
  Since you don't need to sell it until August, you can always list it now at your "ideal" price and take offers.  You won't be in a rush for a quick sale, and you'll have time for the haggling process.
   
  Taking into account everything I think, including the extra tubes that may or may not appeal to the buyer, I think a fair starting price is a flat fee of $1000 or $1100 that includes shipping and the 3% Paypal hit you'll take.  (I also think it's very poor taste to pass the Paypal fees on to the buyer and it's downright fraudulent to send Paypal as a "gift" when buying an item).
   
  Quote: 





emremusic said:


> Hello Woo audio friends...
> 
> Just letting you know, unfortunately I will be selling my Woo Audio 6se in August. (I'm moving countries, and I need to downsize...I will build a portable system instead of my current desktop set)
> 
> ...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Another expensive guy here...  I do like the Dominus, Duck Horn, and Chateau St Jeans Cinq Cepages...


 
   
  Nahh i got a box of them since it was supposed to be for my cousins wedding ceremony, I took 5 bottles home, care to join?.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A very serious question, I have HD800 and LCD-2 and love them both.  Should I get an AKG K702???


 
   
  As a former K701 owner and current HD800 owner, I don't see any reason to get the K702. IMO the HD800 slays the AKG in almost all respects. I'd rather spend the money on more tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





keph said:


> Nahh i got a box of them since it was supposed to be for my cousins wedding ceremony, I took 5 bottles home,* care to join*?.


 
   
  Where and when?  I'm booking my flight as I type this.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Where and when?  I'm booking my flight as I type this.


 
   
  LOL rather than booking flight its cheaper to buy the bottle hehe..its one of the best red i tried oh btw find the 2002 one its amazing..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  sorry OT..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> A very serious question, I have HD800 and LCD-2 and love them both.  Should I get an AKG K702???


 
  as awesome as the k701 was on my WA6-SE and as much as i loved it, i had to sell it because i couldn't justify keeping it when i have HD 800, LCD-2, and T1, they're all light years ahead of the K70X in terms of soundstage, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass. so yeah.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> as awesome as the k701 was on my WA6-SE and as much as i loved it, i had to sell it because i couldn't justify keeping it when i have HD 800, LCD-2, and T1, they're all light years ahead of the K70X in terms of soundstage, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass. so yeah.


 
   
  Thanks, you just saved me few hundred dollars that can go into another hobby.


----------



## dannie01

Got some new toys.


----------



## jc9394

New toys and a kick ass cable upgrade...  Very nice


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, you just saved me few hundred dollars that can go into another hobby.


 
   
  Your "aother hobby" even more costly.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Your "aother hobby" even more costly.


 
   
  Yes, it is.  That is why I need as much as possible...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> New toys and a kick ass cable upgrade...  Very nice


 
   
  The LCD-3 bought tonight from a local dealer of Audeze, I paid almost the same as US$ convert to HK$ but save the shipping, it's expensive for what I've been quoted by Audeze. I auditioned both Fosyex and LCD-3 but prefer Audeze sounding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And the Entreq cable grabbed a week ago, still under burn-in, long way to go.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The LCD-3 bought tonight from a local dealer of Audeze, I paid almost the same as US$ convert to HK$ but save the shipping, it's expensive for what I've been quoted by Audeze. I auditioned both Fosyex and LCD-3 but prefer Audeze sounding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do they normally makes headphone cable or you modified it yourself?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Do they normally makes headphone cable or you modified it yourself?


 
   
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> The LCD-3 bought tonight from a local dealer of Audeze, I paid almost the same as US$ convert to HK$ but save the shipping, it's expensive for what I've been quoted by Audeze. I auditioned both Fosyex and LCD-3 but prefer Audeze sounding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Please don't tell me, I can't afford it...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Do they normally makes headphone cable or you modified it yourself?


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Please don't tell me, I can't afford it...


 
   
  I will be evil as usual. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  See HERE, it's the latest product from Entreq.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I will be evil as usual.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I will not click on that link...  I will not click on that link... I will not click on that link... I will not click on that link... I will not click on that link...


----------



## keph

How much does the LCD cable cost?? and how does it sound?? interesting..where did you get it did you ordered it from the web or they have a local dealer?


----------



## keph

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will not click on that link...  I will not click on that link... I will not click on that link... I will not click on that link... I will not click on that link...


 
   
  I just clicked it..and was attracted at their usb cable...ARGHHHHHH.....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





keph said:


> I just clicked it..and was attracted at their usb cable...ARGHHHHHH.....


 

 That is why I said, I will not click on that link...  they have some really really good interconnect too.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is why I said, I will not click on that link...  they have some really really good interconnect too.


 
   
  Opps...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 no more, no more, no more...Dannie you are EVIL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my friend...i just want to get a new usb cable for my Stello U3 since the company makes the usb cable with a dc input (if im not wrong) it will be better for my U3 no? which means i can get my own power supply for the U3 while using the USB cable for data transfer only..


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> How much does the LCD cable cost?? and how does it sound?? interesting..where did you get it did you ordered it from the web or they have a local dealer?


 
   
  About US600, bought it in local dealer. It sound nice from new but a bit fatigue with the brand new LCD-3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the maker mentioned the cable needs 200-300 hrs bun-in, that's why I said "long way to go".


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is why I said, I will not click on that link...  they have some really really good interconnect too.


 
   





 you know that jc.
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> Opps...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  DOnt' fool yourself, they have some very very nice USB in different configuration.........................


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> About US600, bought it in local dealer. It sound nice from new but a bit fatigue with the brand new LCD-3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Somehow without hearing the cable itself i regret my Norse Norn v2 8-wire cable...hehe i envy you sir...btw since you have some nice toys any recommendations on USB cable?
   
  Edit: i should really go back to Hong Kong and kidnap you for a day out on a shopping spree...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This could work out well...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> Somehow without hearing the cable itself i regret my Norse Norn v2 8-wire cable...hehe i envy you sir...btw since you have some nice toys any recommendations on USB cable?
> 
> Edit: i should really go back to Hong Kong and kidnap you for a day out on a shopping spree...


 
   
  Have borrowed and tried the Challenger USB cable to rip some CDs to my NAS server and I returned it once finished because I know I can't afford for this cable but it really sound GREAT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
   
  Let me know anytime when you want to come back, I love to be the evil escort to spend your hard earn money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Got some new toys.


 
   
  This shot is so FULL of wonderful kit, you can't even squeeze the two cats into the pix!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I want this shopping spree on hand held video cam!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Reaction:
   
  Clicked on link> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




> Hit Power button> PC in Hibernation mode.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Have borrowed and tried the Challenger USB cable to rip some CDs to my NAS server and I returned it once finished because I know I can't afford for this cable but it really sound GREAT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  How much does the USB cable goes? so is the usb cable only for data? or both or even better by adding a good PSU?
   
  Edit: somehow my fingers just sent an e-mail to EntreQ...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I want this shopping spree on hand held video cam!


 
   
  Will do maybe this July/August... will report when done..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Somehow i still have to go there soon, since i got some unfinished family business there and need to return back some WE-717A to Wiwitubes...


----------



## grokit

Esoteric stuff aside :rolleyes:,

Are there any USB cables out there besides the Wireworld Starlight series that feature an isolated signal path for the power component of the signal?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Esoteric stuff aside
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes. Below is but one example. Another escapes me at this writing...
   
http://www.revelationaudiolabs.com/cables-digital/index.htm
   
  Further, if your DAC powers its own USB receiving unit like mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (not all DACs do), you could just send data only. Either a commercially made USB cable configured this way. Or if your DIY skills are up to it, "kill & cap" by cutting and re-terminating.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Have borrowed and tried the Challenger USB cable to rip some CDs to my NAS server and I returned it once finished because I know I can't afford for this cable but it really sound GREAT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I will tag along but I will be so broke by then...


----------



## keph

Guys i know its wrong to ask here but i was wondering instead of buying a Kingrex U power can i just buy a portable charger with an output of 5v dc (same as Kingrex) and buy a Dual A to B USB cable and plug it to my Stello U3? so 1 USB A goes to the portable charger for power and the other A connector goes to my laptop's USB port for data..
   
  will the be the same as the Kingrex U power using the Unanimous uArt cable configuration?


----------



## grokit

silent one said:


> grokit said:
> 
> 
> > Esoteric stuff aside :rolleyes: ,
> ...




Thanks  
I was hoping for something more pedestrian though, like HQ copper instead of silver, and "independently shielded signal and power lines" would probably do the trick rather than having two independent cables. For me.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Will look with you during the in-between moments of the day's tasks...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't you mean capturing the event with your new uber Nikon rig?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Guys i know its wrong to ask here but i was wondering instead of buying a Kingrex U power can i just buy a portable charger with an output of 5v dc (same as Kingrex) and buy a Dual A to B USB cable and plug it to my Stello U3? so 1 USB A goes to the portable charger for power and the other A connector goes to my laptop's USB port for data..
> 
> will the be the same as the Kingrex U power using the Unanimous uArt cable configuration?


 
   
  You may find an answer here. But will definitely find one at Computer Audiophile.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes. Below is but one example. Another escapes me at this writing...
> 
> http://www.revelationaudiolabs.com/cables-digital/index.htm
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had a bad experience with Brad at Revelation.  I ordered a power cable and it took a long time for it to be shipped and his communication was poor at best.  After the transaction was completed he offered to send me a free USB cable as a token for the bad situation.  I said fine.
   
  I don't use USB for audio (my computer-based audio is Logitech Transporter and Touch).  So, if someone would like to borrow the cable and try it out I would be happy to lend it out.  I will ship it to the CONUS at my expense.  All I ask is that you ship it back to me at your expense within a reasonable time frame.  PM me if you are interested.
   
  SilentOne, what's a USB receiving unit?  Which DAC do you have?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm glad dminches just posted! I realized I had meant to say "Powers" its own USB receiving unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We're talking about eliminating the power cord... sheesh, still a bit sleepy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As Roger Clemens famously said in his Congressional Testimony... "I mis-remebered." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had meant to say "Powers" its own USB receiving unit. So yes, all USB DACs have these units, but only some can provide their own power. And that makes it possible then to send data only. (USB unit receives; processes input signal)
   
  I have a suped-up W4S DAC-1 (upgraded Digital Board; Low ESR "Super Caps.")  Also, I like your offering the USB cable for trial, what a community! And lastly, a BIG tip on USB cables - the shorter, the better!


----------



## bobeau

Shameless plug... sillysally's WA6-SE Maxxed is up FS.
   
  This is a sad time, the last 10 mos with it have been quite thrilling, but I'm quitting my day job and doing the remote contractor thing so my whole desktop setup must go.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This shot is so FULL of wonderful kit, you can't even squeeze the two cats into the pix!


 
   
  Here they are in another pic.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> How much does the USB cable goes? so is the usb cable only for data? or both or even better by adding a good PSU?
> 
> Edit: somehow my fingers just sent an e-mail to EntreQ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Going by many of the audio cables I have, the Left Cat is pictured at the top; the Right Cat is at the bottom.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Oh my wow. I just got the Fleetwood Mac Rumours cd that I had ordered. After having heard it all growing up, I never felt the need to buy it since I have gotten into head-fi a few years ago. Big mistake.
> It's totally blowing my mind hearing it again now on my WA22 with great tubes, especially now that my musical appreciation is light years beyond where it used to be. The acoustics on Never Going Back Again...wow.


 
  That is why it is one of the most sold albums in history. If you have a DAC that can do 24/96 or higher I highly recommend you to purchase the alum from HDTRACKS. It sounds incredible in High-rez. I have all the Fleetwood Mac (Buckingham/Nicks era) in high-rez, I love them all.


----------



## musicman59

For all of you Woo addicts that have a WA5 or WA5-LE or WA6-SE or WES I highly recommend you to upgrade your umbilical cord. Two months ago I upgraded the umbilical cord in my Dark Star from the stock (Belden cable) to one made by Aphroditecu29.com based on Neotech OCC solid core copper wire and the improvement was very noticeable. 
   
  I was fortunate enough to find out that Keph made one for his Woo based also on the Neotech wire. He was gracious enough to figure out how to make one form my WA5-LE.
  I received the cord last week. It is very well made and its effect in the sound is great. Just like in the DS the sound increase by 1db ( measure it) at the same position of the volume knob compared to the stock. The bass got deeper and tighter and the clarity and purity of the sound got even better. With this last tweak my WA5-LE is fully Neoteched
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (all my internal wiring in it was upgraded to Neotech and Cardas Eutectic solder).
   
  Highly recommended upgrade for all amps with a separate power supply.


----------



## Silent One

It has been very exciting to be a witness on your audio journey...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> For all of you Woo addicts that have a WA5 or WA5-LE or WA6-SE or WES I highly recommend you to upgrade your umbilical cord. Two months ago I upgraded the umbilical cord in my Dark Star from the stock (Belden cable) to one made by Aphroditecu29.com based on Neotech OCC solid core copper wire and the improvement was very noticeable.
> 
> I was fortunate enough to find out that Keph made one for his Woo based also on the Neotech wire. He was gracious enough to figure out how to make one form my WA5-LE.
> I received the cord last week. It is very well made and its effect in the sound is great. Just like in the DS the sound increase by 1db ( measure it) at the same position of the volume knob compared to the stock. The bass got deeper and tighter and the clarity and purity of the sound got even better. With this last tweak my WA5-LE is fully Neoteched
> ...


 
  curiously, what length did you use for your new umbilical cord?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> For all of you Woo addicts that have a WA5 or WA5-LE or WA6-SE or WES I highly recommend you to upgrade your umbilical cord. Two months ago I upgraded the umbilical cord in my Dark Star from the stock (Belden cable) to one made by Aphroditecu29.com based on Neotech OCC solid core copper wire and the improvement was very noticeable.
> 
> I was fortunate enough to find out that Keph made one for his Woo based also on the Neotech wire. He was gracious enough to figure out how to make one form my WA5-LE.
> I received the cord last week. It is very well made and its effect in the sound is great. Just like in the DS the sound increase by 1db ( measure it) at the same position of the volume knob compared to the stock. The bass got deeper and tighter and the clarity and purity of the sound got even better. With this last tweak my WA5-LE is fully Neoteched
> ...


 
   
  Great to know, thanks keph & musicman59.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I want to be one of those guys for a day!  I've stepped away for awhile and this thread just keeps moving forward.  So hard to keep up with the pace.  Been bicycling around the Bay area for the past couple of months ... need to get back to my Woo!
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Here they are in another pic.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I want to be one of those guys for a day!  I've stepped away for awhile and this thread just keeps moving forward.  So hard to keep up with the pace.  Been bicycling around the Bay area for the past couple of months ... need to get back to my Woo!


 
   
   
  These cats could easily be any number of tech workers in Silicon Valley. dannie01's cats look like Gogglers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Went out for my first ride of the year (well behind schedule) yesterday in the rain! Between work & Woo, how many miles are you squeezing in a month? Feelin' a bit lazy - new Continental GP-4000S' have only about 75 on 'em.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> For all of you Woo addicts that have a WA5 or WA5-LE or WA6-SE or WES I highly recommend you to upgrade your umbilical cord. Two months ago I upgraded the umbilical cord in my Dark Star from the stock (Belden cable) to one made by Aphroditecu29.com based on Neotech OCC solid core copper wire and the improvement was very noticeable.
> 
> I was fortunate enough to find out that Keph made one for his Woo based also on the Neotech wire. He was gracious enough to figure out how to make one form my WA5-LE.
> I received the cord last week. It is very well made and its effect in the sound is great. Just like in the DS the sound increase by 1db ( measure it) at the same position of the volume knob compared to the stock. The bass got deeper and tighter and the clarity and purity of the sound got even better. With this last tweak my WA5-LE is fully Neoteched
> ...


 
   
   
  Amazingly I have been lurking here past the last 700 or so posts with nothing really to add. (rare for me)
   
  I totally believe the W5-LE would respond in such a way. We as a user group seem to live in this gray area in-between truth-snake-oil and real results. With so many opinions and theories out there it's amazing one would go for an umbilical change-out.  It's just something I would have never thought of in a million years.
  Strange as I hear complete sound changes coming from the WA5-LE with the use of different power cords. So it totally makes complete sense that the inter-umbilical could change night into day, so to speak.
   
  Do you notice big results with power-cord change-outs between the wall and the WA5-LE power-supply? There may now be bigger differences as to the cord (umbilical one) being changed between the Woo amp and power-supply?
   

   
   
  Changing out an Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard " Fatboy" to the Epiphany 2 completely changes the sound, I can only begin to imagine what a new umbilical cord would do.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I want to be one of those guys for a day!  I've stepped away for awhile and this thread just keeps moving forward.  So hard to keep up with the pace.  Been bicycling around the Bay area for the past couple of months ... need to get back to my Woo!


 
   
  I want to join them too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I also away from the thread for quite a while and found I have hundreds of pages missed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, just came back recently.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I just got back into road cycling thanks to a coworker. Moved out here from Chicago about 6 years ago and can't believe I waited so long. The rides are incredible here. Only going a couple of times a week for 20-30 mile rides so far on my new Wilier! Loving this bike. Conti 4000s are waiting their turn. Just found their way to my Place last week! How can I fit a wa22 and still be under 17 lbs?


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> curiously, what length did you use for your new umbilical cord?


 
   
  The one i made for Musicman was 0.5m


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Great to know, thanks keph & musicman59.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Does anyone do carbon mods for woos. Could be next big thing!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> For all of you Woo addicts that have a WA5 or WA5-LE or WA6-SE or WES I highly recommend you to upgrade your umbilical cord. Two months ago I upgraded the umbilical cord in my Dark Star from the stock (Belden cable) to one made by Aphroditecu29.com based on Neotech OCC solid core copper wire and the improvement was very noticeable.
> 
> I was fortunate enough to find out that Keph made one for his Woo based also on the Neotech wire. He was gracious enough to figure out how to make one form my WA5-LE.
> I received the cord last week. It is very well made and its effect in the sound is great. Just like in the DS the sound increase by 1db ( measure it) at the same position of the volume knob compared to the stock. The bass got deeper and tighter and the clarity and purity of the sound got even better. With this last tweak my WA5-LE is fully Neoteched
> ...


 
   
  I am blushing now, Thanks for the mini review..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Amazingly I have been lurking here past the last 700 or so posts with nothing really to add. (rare for me)
> 
> I totally believe the W5-LE would respond in such a way. We as a user group seem to live in this gray area in-between truth-snake-oil and real results. With so many opinions and theories out there it's amazing one would go for an umbilical change-out.  It's just something I would have never thought of in a million years.
> Strange as I hear complete sound changes coming from the WA5-LE with the use of different power cords. So it totally makes complete sense that the inter-umbilical could change night into day, so to speak.
> ...


 
   
  Changing the Umbilical cord will make one hell of a WA5LE...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Here they are in another pic.


 
   
   
  What a beautiful British you got there.. im guessing its a Male? i got the Female..


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





keph said:


> Changing the Umbilical cord will make one hell of a WA5LE...


 
   
   
  I already drank the purple Kool-Aid.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I just got back into road cycling thanks to a coworker. Moved out here from Chicago about 6 years ago and can't believe I waited so long. The rides are incredible here. Only going a couple of times a week for 20-30 mile rides so far on my new Wilier! Loving this bike. Conti 4000s are waiting their turn. Just found their way to my Place last week! How can I fit a wa22 and still be under 17 lbs?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Having learned of your skills, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've got you firm in mind!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Some serious snakes there! Thanks for the capture.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Amazingly I have been lurking here past the last 700 or so posts with nothing really to add. (rare for me)
> 
> I totally believe the W5-LE would respond in such a way. We as a user group seem to live in this gray area in-between truth-snake-oil and real results. With so many opinions and theories out there it's amazing one would go for an umbilical change-out.  It's just something I would have never thought of in a million years.
> Strange as I hear complete sound changes coming from the WA5-LE with the use of different power cords. So it totally makes complete sense that the inter-umbilical could change night into day, so to speak.
> ...


 
   
  I see a huge snake attach behind the WA5LE's PSU.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> What a beautiful British you got there.. im guessing its a Male? i got the Female..


 
   
  Thanks and correct, they are boys.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I see a huge snake attach behind the WA5LE's PSU.


 
   
  It looks like an Unagi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...it must be sooo Yummy...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Having learned of your skills,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just let me know when you are not Woo-Less anymore...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 With your skills, why limit yourself to my Woo that went woo-sh out the door? I've got 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 other things up my sleeve.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





keph said:


> It looks like an Unagi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   
  I live far from a place to try more cords but other than not being super bendable it seems pretty great.  I would never believe how much power-cords change the Woo sound, but in my humble opinion they make a huge impact. I purchased mine used for $400.00 so it wasn't like spending crazy-crazy money on a power-cord. I hear it may have a floating ground what ever that is. I just sat at home for a couple of hours and did A-B tests between cords. If it truly is placebo, then the effects are not wearing off any time soon.


----------



## Csericks

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> I live far from a place to try more cords but other than not being super bendable it seems pretty great.  I would never believe how much power-cords change the Woo sound, but in my humble opinion they make a huge impact. I purchased mine used for $400.00 so it wasn't like spending crazy-crazy money on a power-cord. I hear it may have a floating ground what ever that is. I just sat at home for a couple of hours and did A-B tests between cords. If it truly is placebo, then the effects are not wearing off any time soon.


 
  What are you using?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





csericks said:


> What are you using?


 
  I'm sure there is better out there but in truth I'll never know. 
   
   

 Cable Inventory
   Virtual Dynamics Master Series RCA interconnects
 Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard "Fatboy" Power Cord
 Electra Glide Audio Epiphany X2 Power Cord


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> curiously, what length did you use for your new umbilical cord?


 
   
  It is .5 meter.The shorter the better but it will be hard to manage it and bend it if is shorter because it is stiff. Internally it has 12 leads of Neotech solid core OCC copper and I think each lead is 18awg. Keph can confirm the awg for us.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Amazingly I have been lurking here past the last 700 or so posts with nothing really to add. (rare for me)
> 
> I totally believe the W5-LE would respond in such a way. We as a user group seem to live in this gray area in-between truth-snake-oil and real results. With so many opinions and theories out there it's amazing one would go for an umbilical change-out.  It's just something I would have never thought of in a million years.
> Strange as I hear complete sound changes coming from the WA5-LE with the use of different power cords. So it totally makes complete sense that the inter-umbilical could change night into day, so to speak.
> ...


 
   
  Yes, when I went from a standard power cord to a WireWorld Electra 5.2 (which is also OCC copper) it made a big difference.
  I expereince the same thing with my Dark Star. Originally I was running my Darl Star with an Audience PowerChord and the stock umbilical cord. When I repleced the umbilical cord for one made of the same wire as the WA5-LE cord the sound went south. it just didn't sound good. I called my supplier and he was very disappointed becuasehe was expecting an improvement. He asked me which power cord I was using and then asked me to take one of my Electra 5.2 and replaced the the Audience with it. To my surprise the sound totally changed and the amp start sounding beautiful.
   
  The same thing happened with the WA5-LE when I changed to the Electra and the new umbilical cord.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yes, when I went from a standard power cord to a WireWorld Electra 5.2 (which is also OCC copper) it made a big difference.
> I expereince the same thing with my Dark Star. Originally I was running my Darl Star with an Audience PowerChord and the stock umbilical cord. When I repleced the umbilical cord for one made of the same wire as the WA5-LE cord the sound went south. it just didn't sound good. I called my supplier and he was very disappointed becuasehe was expecting an improvement. He asked me which power cord I was using and then asked me to take one of my Electra 5.2 and replaced the the Audience with it. To my surprise the sound totally changed and the amp start sounding beautiful.
> 
> The same thing happened with the WA5-LE when I changed to the Electra and the new umbilical cord.


 
  Clarify the fact that you changed the Dark Star umbilical with the aftermarket cable made from the same new aftermarket cable material your now touting as an improvement on the WA5-LE? It was not an improvement until you changed the PSU power- cable. Is this what you did?
   
  And the same exact thing happened with the WA5-LE? So you have an Audience power-cord laying around and not good for either of your headphone amps....right?


----------



## grokit

As a result of this conversation, I just went all out and purchased a 14awg hospital cord for my WA22. $17 shipped.


----------



## dminches

Iron lung Jellyfish?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Iron lung Jellyfish?


 
   
  Too expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !
   
  The "Hospital Grade Green Dot":
   

   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140754281097&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Clarify the fact that you changed the Dark Star umbilical with the aftermarket cable made from the same new aftermarket cable material your now touting as an improvement on the WA5-LE? It was not an improvement until you changed the PSU power- cable. Is this what you did?
> 
> And the same exact thing happened with the WA5-LE? So you have an Audience power-cord laying around and not good for either of your headphone amps....right?


 
   
  Oriiginal state:
  Dark Star PS using Audience PowerChord and stock umbilical cord. The sound was good.
  First step:
  Replaced the umbilical cord with the new aftermarket made of Neotech OCC copper and left the Audience PowerChord. The sound got thin and with no body.
  Second step:
  Replaced the Audience PowerChord with a WireWorld Electra 5.2 and left the aftermarket umbilical cord. The sound got the best ever.
   
   
  WA5-LE original state:
  Generic power cord and stock umbilical cord. Sound was good.
  First step:
  Replaced the generic power cord with a WireWorld Electra 5.2: Sound got noticeable better.
  Second step:
  Replaced the stock umbilical cord with the aftermarket cord made of Neotech OCC copper: The sound got the best ever.
   
  My personal conclusions are: both, the power cord and the umbilical cord influence the sound AND the synergy between both is important.
   
  I actually replaced all the Audience PowerChrods I had in my systems with WireWorld Electras and all the Audience were sold.


----------



## Silent One

(Another WireWorld Electra 5* owner can be seen, not heard, as he reads along with delight... in silence)


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Oriiginal state:
> Dark Star PS using Audience PowerChord and stock umbilical cord. The sound was good.
> First step:
> Replaced the umbilical cord with the new aftermarket made of Neotech OCC copper and left the Audience PowerChord. The sound got thin and with no body.
> ...


 
  Congratulations at your journey end!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just in the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Neotech also have solid silver cable and many other brands, too, for power cord and umbilical.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Are 6SL7 tubes or ECC35 tubes compatible with WA22 at all? Reading a lot of good things about them. However they aren't specifically listed in the Woo compatibility chart, although I imagine it would be hard for it to be all-inclusive.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just in the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yep they do but it's very very costly, and i prefer Copper than Silver since my power cable is silver i want to mix and match it to add more mid-low...
   
  my god Danny you are really an 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....


----------



## keph

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Oriiginal state:
> Dark Star PS using Audience PowerChord and stock umbilical cord. The sound was good.
> First step:
> Replaced the umbilical cord with the new aftermarket made of Neotech OCC copper and left the Audience PowerChord. The sound got thin and with no body.
> ...


 
   
   
  i am happy to be a part of your Audio Journey..


----------



## Sid-Fi

These RCA VT231 smoke glass are sounding nice! Just put them in, and so far they sound really similar to my Sylvania chrome top. They seem to have fuller bass, which is probably good since the Sylvanias seem less than intended. They place you back a row or two, but still have the very nice smooth mids of the Sylvanias. It seems like it might have a little wider soundstage, and perhaps a little more impact, but it's close. I wonder if they might get fatiguing after awhile for some reason. It will be nice to compare them with time.

Now, I should probably take a break soon to open my 596 that came in today , but Fleetwood Mac is sounding too good.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> Yep they do but it's very very costly, and i prefer Copper than Silver since my power cable is silver i want to mix and match it to add more mid-low...
> 
> my god Danny you are really an
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 enough to use Viablue X25 as power cord, may have some pure silver strands or solid core to try out later.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You are already
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





EVIL YOU!!! haha...the X25 is nothing compared to other SNAKES/EELS here...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Just in the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   ??      Gold?


----------



## Sid-Fi

If anyone has been holding interest to try out some RCA VT-231 smoke glass, which were the recommended upgrade driver tube on Woo's site or a long time, check out the seller I just bought from - walt2680. He listed a big lot of individual tubes with extensive test values including how quiet they measured for only $30 each. They usually go for $60 or $80 at well known sites and were listed at like $115 on Woo as the upgrade option or a good while.

I was hesitant to order them so cheap but the seller ended up being legit. They sound awesome and are dead quiet. Just wanted to share what seemed like a good find .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> These RCA VT231 smoke glass are sounding nice! Just put them in, and so far they sound really similar to my Sylvania chrome top. They seem to have fuller bass, which is probably good since the Sylvanias seem less than intended. They place you back a row or two, but still have the very nice smooth mids of the Sylvanias. It seems like it might have a little wider soundstage, and perhaps a little more impact, but it's close. I wonder if they might get fatiguing after awhile for some reason. It will be nice to compare them with time.
> 
> Now, I should probably take a break soon to open my 596 that came in today
> 
> ...


 
   
  With me being a fan of the former and not the latter, I say BUST open the _Mighty 596... do it now! _


----------



## Sid-Fi

Okay! Opening...



Nice. I got the USAF version.


----------



## SeeHear

I'm getting my WA2 back tomorrow!  I had another pre-out added and a switch to disconnect the pre-outs so I don't have to turn off my amplifier when listening to head-fi or as the WA2 heats up.  The wait has been hard but worth it - replacement tube, switchable pre-out and no FedEx - I'll pick it up from Jack tomorrow night! 
   
  It's a small world fact: He lives on my old block!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice! Congrats on the mods. I sure wouldn't mind having Woo down the street!
  Quote: 





seehear said:


> I'm getting my WA2 back tomorrow!  I had another pre-out added and a switch to disconnect the pre-outs so I don't have to turn off my amplifier when listening to head-fi or as the WA2 heats up.  The wait has been hard but worth it - replacement tube, switchable pre-out and no FedEx - I'll pick it up from Jack tomorrow night!
> 
> It's a small world fact: He lives on my old block!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> These RCA VT231 smoke glass are sounding nice! Just put them in, and so far they sound really similar to my Sylvania chrome top. They seem to have fuller bass, which is probably good since the Sylvanias seem less than intended. They place you back a row or two, but still have the very nice smooth mids of the Sylvanias. It seems like it might have a little wider soundstage, and perhaps a little more impact, but it's close. I wonder if they might get fatiguing after awhile for some reason. It will be nice to compare them with time.
> 
> Now, I should probably take a break soon to open my 596 that came in today
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can't quite put a finger on it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it seems the amp is missing a piece of glass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Okay! Opening...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice. I got the USAF version.


 
   
   





 Even Sotheby's would take a second look!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Nice! Congrats on the mods. I sure wouldn't mind having Woo down the street!
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Haha yeah, and it will be for two or three weeks. The 596 got here within a couple of days, and i still haven't even got my order in to Woo for the adapter, which is still in development for a couple of weeks i think. If any sympathetic soul wants to ship a loaner in the meantime, I'll cover shipping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Actually, if anyone has a spare 596 I would trade a Woo 6F8G adapter for it. That is if it is nice like one of Glenn's or comparable Woo.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can't quite put a finger on it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Come to think of it. I should look for side work as a hand model, to help support my tube rolling addict...er passion.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Even Sotheby's would take a second look!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Haha yeah, and it will be for two or three weeks. The 596 got here within a couple of days, and i still haven't even got my order in to Woo for the adapter, which is still in development for a couple of weeks i think. If any sympathetic soul wants to ship a loaner in the meantime, I'll cover shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Where have all the Front runners gone? You mean... you're going to wait for Jack Wu to work his wonder and then... place an order? Why not now? I have a new tweak arriving tomorrow. But will re-evaluate your situation next week.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Actually just spacing it out a few days to avoid wife "aggro" as my gamer buddies would put it. Just ordered several pairs of driver tubes and the 596 in addition to some other purchases haha. Sad but very true.
   
   


silent one said:


> Where have all the Front runners gone? You mean... you're going to wait for Jack Wu to work his wonder and then... place an order? Why not now? I have a new tweak arriving tomorrow. But will re-evaluate your situation next week.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Actually just spacing it out a few days to avoid wife "aggro" as my gamer buddies would put it. Just ordered several pairs of driver tubes and the 596 in addition to some other purchases haha. Sad but very true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sad? Hardly! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 She affords you a quality of life your buddies can never approach, online or in real space. Best we could do is compliment the life you've already in place. But with her, that's a special place. You have my respect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Although, I'm currently feeling woozy and Woo-less, I will find a relevant way to include pix of my new tweak on Friday.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 

 Thanks!  I will post pix when I get it set up.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Come to think of it. I should look for side work as a hand model, to help support my tube rolling addict...er passion.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's a great gig, actually. I'm a former Hand model - worked out of a studio in Santa Monica. I was discovered while working at a stock brokerage firm of all places. Back in the day, I easily made up to $200-$300 for 30-45 minutes of studio work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and I was silent while working...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Okay! Opening...
> 
> Nice. I got the USAF version.


 
   
  Congrats, clean those pins and put it in the amp, you will never regret.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Haha yeah, and it will be for two or three weeks. The 596 got here within a couple of days, and i still haven't even got my order in to Woo for the adapter, which is still in development for a couple of weeks i think. If any sympathetic soul wants to ship a loaner in the meantime, I'll cover shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oops, I missed this post.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Are 6SL7 tubes or ECC35 tubes compatible with WA22 at all? Reading a lot of good things about them. However they aren't specifically listed in the Woo compatibility chart, although I imagine it would be hard for it to be all-inclusive.


 
  I don't see them here. This chart was made by Jack for our amps.
  https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## jc9394

Since we are talking about snake and eel lately, anyone tried the Pangea AC-9?  I read it is one of the best for the money since I can't not afford the super duper expensive like the other guys here.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


>


 
   
  Guys, I have few extra from my last order.  I will sell them at my cost (41.50) + shipping + paypal fee.  PM me if you are looking for it and I do not have an extra adapters.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Guys, I have few extra from my last order.  I will sell them at my cost (41.50) + shipping + paypal fee.  PM me if you are looking for it and I do not have an extra adapters.


 
   
   
  One more left...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What a run we had on 596's!


----------



## mataemas

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> One more left...


 
  Hi, interested, please send email to mataemas@gmail.com
  My pm already reached the limit.
  Thanks.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Since we are talking about snake and eel lately, anyone tried the Pangea AC-9?  I read it is one of the best for the money since I can't not afford the super duper expensive like the other guys here.


 
   
  I actually have one AC-9SE and one AC-14SE. The SE version has better wires (PCOCC) thanthe standard version. IMO they are probably one of the best bang for the buck. They are not at the WireWorld Electra level but close and price/perfromance ratio is great.
   
  Be carefule with the AC-9SE it is hughe and heavy. IMO for a normal headphone amp the AC-14SE will do fine.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I actually have one AC-9SE and one AC-14SE. The SE version has better wires (PCOCC) thanthe standard version. IMO they are probably one of the best bang for the buck. They are not at the WireWorld Electra level but close and price/perfromance ratio is great.
> 
> Be carefule with the AC-9SE it is hughe and heavy. IMO for a normal headphone amp the AC-14SE will do fine.


 
   
  WA22 and beta22 will do fine with AC14-SE?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Since we are talking about snake and eel lately, anyone tried the Pangea AC-9?  I read it is one of the best for the money since I _*can't not *_afford the super duper expensive like the other guys here.


 
   
  Oops, so this one should works fine with your WA22 abd B22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Just kidding my friend.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Oops, so this one should works fine with your WA22 abd B22.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  As long as you send it to me for FREE


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> As long as you send it to me for FREE


 
   
  I really cannot afford


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I really cannot afford


 

 the thought of it is enough


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Since we are talking about snake and eel lately, anyone tried the Pangea AC-9?  I read it is one of the best for the money since I can't not afford the super duper expensive like the other guys here.


 
  I also have the AC14-SE, the 9 was way too thick, it wouldn't bend behind my book case. Though I am using the pangea with my dac (couldn't tell much of a diff in audio, but its a much better cable than the stock). My woo uses a Wireworld Aurora2.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I also have the AC14-SE, the 9 was way too thick, it wouldn't bend behind my book case. Though I am using the pangea with my dac (couldn't tell much of a diff in audio, but its a much better cable than the stock). My woo uses a *Wireworld Aurora2.*


 
  I'm considering it too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> One more left...


 
   
  Looks like all gone.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm considering it too.


 
  The Aurora2 did clean things up a bit (sound-wise), but i paired it with a Furman power conditioner, so I'm sure that had some influence on the sound improvement as well.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WA22 and beta22 will do fine with AC14-SE?


 
  I would think so. The 9 is just to big for that. I have not measure it but I think the 9 is probably around 1 1/2" diameter.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I would think so. The 9 is just to big for that. I have not measure it but I think the 9 is probably around 1 1/2" diameter.


 
  I don't think it was 1.5in - thats massive, it may have been 1inch, but thats not that important.. its just massive and inflexible (even though the marketing mentions how flexible it i - for its size).


----------



## keph

Speaking of Wireworld cable i foud someone in the local forum selling a DIY Silver Electra with Hubbell connectors...hmm interesting..price wise too...might give it a shot, but its only 35cm but worth the try. can anyone figure it out in case it's a Chinese Copy?? imo the pics looks real..
   
  pics.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Nice to read about the power-cord enthusiasm. Somehow in this small harbor of Head-Fi, the cord non-believers are quiet or non-existent. Important here, as Woos seem to be maybe the most power-cord dependent of any amp made. It's a discovery I'm happy I was open to exploring. Even though some may find that the improvements are marginal, there will always be that one who seems to get a 50% improvement in sound quality. When I read another member with the same amp as me use the exact same terms to describe the improvements it all becomes very very real.


----------



## keph

For me Power cables are somehow more/same important with other Interconnects...imo its like a car tire even though you have a 500+HP car and uses only a stock/normal tire you won't get the full 500+HP potential using a stock/normal tire..
   
  Edit: coming from a stock cheapo computer power cable to a Viablue X25 power cable changes everything in the sound the most noticeable improvements is it makes the sound more refine and less bloated bass, more body to the mids and less piercing highs..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Oops, so this one should works fine with your WA22 abd B22.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  You Evil One...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Hard for me to put into perspective what happened as I changed both interconnects and power cables at the same time. One year before on the day the Woo 5 LE arrived I changed my Monster Cable $10.00 interconnects to a friends pure silver twisted wires. I found I could hear a difference but didn't like the results. With silver it took the sound and made it too bright. At that point I knew cables made a difference but I also realized you needed to find compatibility in products.
   
  A year passed as I worked on the front-end vinyl source and placed cables as a thing on the "to do list". Finally I met a fellow member who just started asking me to try stuff. As it seemed like a simple thing to just demo stuff I did. I stayed away from some stuff as I maybe still am closed minded and cautious to how amp stands which are tuned could affect the sound. They were really just too much money for what ever they did. Power cables were a cost effective way of getting a new sound.
   
  The complete sound stage changed giving me way more detail and definition. Any mid echo type of distortion was removed and the bass became 3D and tight. The combination of the bass cleaning up in the sound stage made the new definition clear to hear. At one point I was able to get an evening alone without distractions and just played 
  around trading in a couple different cables and changing music. The best cable I found ended up getting me a new level of speed and authority. Slam is what I was after. In the past having a rig which was slow-responding allowed me to enjoy classical and jazz but became confused with fast complex rock and metal. Power cords showed me the true potential of the rig. I really only listen to metal so the change ended up as one of the most important changes to my rig. In closing I still need to find a phonograph cartridge at some point which will get me the loudness of my CD player. Another upgrade I still would like to achieve is power conditioning too.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I completely agree. I have Pangea AC-14se cables throughout my system, and they are very good. Between them and my Furman AC215 small power conditioner (for DAC and Aqvox, amp is from wall) it's a great bang for the buck power solution. 

I had a local friend try them who has higher end cords like Shunyata and Nordost. He ended up buying several of them for his secondary components and was impressed with them.

I thought about an AC-9, but my setup requires to much bending. Typically they are used for power amps, but they are also well regarded. If I had a fairly straight pathway to my WA22, I would use one for it.



musicman59 said:


> I actually have one AC-9SE and one AC-14SE. The SE version has better wires (PCOCC) thanthe standard version. IMO they are probably one of the best bang for the buck. They are not at the WireWorld Electra level but close and price/perfromance ratio is great.
> 
> Be carefule with the AC-9SE it is hughe and heavy. IMO for a normal headphone amp the AC-14SE will do fine.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for the link. It looks like there are only a handful of compatible tubes really since many of those listed are different names of the same tube. Appreciate the reply.



nututubes said:


> I don't see them here. This chart was made by Jack for our amps.
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## Sid-Fi

Props to Jc for picking up extra and being able to supply those that missed the vacuum tubes.net stock. Thanks Jc.



jc9394 said:


> Guys, I have few extra from my last order.  I will sell them at my cost (41.50) + shipping + paypal fee.  PM me if you are looking for it and I do not have an extra adapters.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I completely agree. I have Pangea AC-14se cables throughout my system, and they are very good. Between them and my Furman AC215 small power conditioner (for DAC and Aqvox, amp is from wall) it's a great bang for the buck power solution.


 
   
  Those actually seem like a pretty decent value as well:
  http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14SE%20%200.6
   
  If I was to invest in a line conditioner/ power re-generator I would definitely consider them.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Amazon also typically carries Pangea power cords. They are usually marked down quite a bit on both Audio Adviser and Amazon. Checking both can result in a better deal. 

The small Furman conditioner I have is awesome value and works great for headphone setups since it only has two plugs, but squeezes most of the technology from the larger more expensive units into it. Very noticeable improvement when running it between my dac and wall outlet.



grokit said:


> Those actually seem like a pretty decent value as well:
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14SE%20%200.6
> 
> If I was to invest in a line conditioner/ power re-generator I would definitely consider them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

slowly starting to realize how many popular songs are so badly recorded..... its annoying cause the T1 is like extreme revealing, much more than my LCD-2 and D7k, even more than the Hd 800 in some aspects.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Speaking of Wireworld cable i foud someone in the local forum selling a DIY Silver Electra with Hubbell connectors...hmm interesting..price wise too...might give it a shot, but its only 35cm but worth the try. can anyone figure it out in case it's a Chinese Copy?? i*mo the pics looks real..*
> 
> pics.


 
   
  Looks real to me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Amazon also typically carries Pangea power cords. They are usually marked down quite a bit on both Audio Adviser and Amazon. Checking both can result in a better deal.
> 
> The small Furman conditioner I have is awesome value and works great for headphone setups since it only has two plugs, but squeezes most of the technology from the larger more expensive units into it. Very noticeable improvement when running it between my dac and wall outlet.


 
   
  Yes I've been looking at the Furman products on Amazon, for now I am attracted to one of their powerstrips that has the outlets spaced widely enough for the bigger plugs.


----------



## Silent One

For those WooAudio amp owners using the 2010 Mac mini and later as a music server, this pix is for you! 
   
  Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform:


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice pic! Looks great on your maple block with the spikes.



silent one said:


> For those WooAudio amp owners using the 2010 Mac mini and later as a music server, this pix is for you!
> 
> Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Nice pic! Looks great on your maple block with the spikes.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your words are kind. The spikes shown above are the existing spikes and much larger than the smaller Dayton spikes that come with the platform. Which are only 1/3 in height. Will swap the little ones in next hour...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For those WooAudio amp owners using the 2010 Mac mini and later as a music server, this pix is for you!
> 
> Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform:


 
   
  Indeed it looks very nice with those spikes on the chopping board.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Evaluations still to come. Could the new platform itself be on the chopping block?!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> slowly starting to realize how many popular songs are so badly recorded..... its annoying cause the T1 is like extreme revealing, much more than my LCD-2 and D7k, even more than the Hd 800 in some aspects.


 
  +1.. realizing this through my journey as well... a lot of recent electronic and pop songs have been pretty poor - its disappointing. One surprising thing I've noticed.. hip-hop and r&b sound amazing on vinyl.. I had never heard Rihanna songs sound so amazing; just ordered some Ludacris to continue testing that theory. Analog = fun


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes I've been looking at the Furman products on Amazon, for now I am attracted to one of their powerstrips that has the outlets spaced widely enough for the bigger plugs.


 
  I have the PST-6, its an excellent Furman power strip and priced well. I think there is a 9 plug one as well (PST-9).
   
  Quote:


silent one said:


> For those WooAudio amp owners using the 2010 Mac mini and later as a music server, this pix is for you!
> 
> Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform:



   
  That platform looks sweet! Nice addition


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was looking at the "Furman SS-6B Steel Power Strip, 6 Outlets, 15 Foot Power Cord, Standard Level Power Conditioning", it would seem like a good match for my hospital cords. I think I have one of their single rack space units in storage as well.
   
   
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> silent one said:
> ...


 
   
  Yes that's got to be the coolest Mac Mini ever!


----------



## Silent One

Thanks kindly, sir! There's three tuning modes and I have two different size spikes. This could take a while (Fri-Sun).
   
   
   
*Update: *I discovered late last night that the manufacturer inadvertently excluded the tuning washers from packaging. Immediately dispatched them earlier today, but I won't receive them until Monday. So, impressions are being held up.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> ahzari said:
> ...


 
   
  Does anyone have an idea of this FURMAN Symmetrically Balanced Power Conditioner, it looks very promising. It's like a rock weight *43KG*.


----------



## preproman

Another good affordable cable from Emotiva.


----------



## dleblanc343

I hope this isn't a stupid question, but does anyone with a WA22 own both a 4 pin xlr and a dual 3 pin xlr cable for their headphone? I was wondering if the outputs of the amp have different effects on sound and which would be ideal. I definitely would prefer the hassle less 4 pin xlr.


----------



## grokit

I do, and for me it depends on the headphone. For example the HD800 and LCD2 scale up with a balanced cable out of the WA22, but the HD600 does not. YMMV.


----------



## jc9394

dleblanc343 said:


> I hope this isn't a stupid question, but does anyone with a WA22 own both a 4 pin xlr and a dual 3 pin xlr cable for their headphone? I was wondering if the outputs of the amp have different effects on sound and which would be ideal. I definitely would prefer the hassle less 4 pin xlr.




If use a same cable geometry, it is the same. Even if you are using TRS, WA22 is not true balanced out even the amp is a balanced amp. It is well documented.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Does anyone have an idea of this FURMAN Symmetrically Balanced Power Conditioner, it looks very promising. It's like a rock weight *43KG*. :eek:




For this price, I rather get a Perfectwave P5.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If use a same cable geometry, it is the same. Even if you are using TRS, WA22 is not true balanced out even the amp is a balanced amp. It is well documented.


 
   
  I have a different opinion, on both points. IME, certain headphones respond to balanced cabling, regardless of the amp used.
   
  In regards to the WA22 not being fully balanced, I'm not convinced that is the case either:
   
  Quote: 





wooaudio said:


> [size=medium]The WA22 is a fully balanced amp, see diagram below.[/size]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  From the owner's manual Q&A:

 "If I connect the WA22 with RCA interconnects, will the amp still provide a balanced signal to the balanced output?

 "No, there is no RCA to Balanced conversion in this amp. A source with a true balanced output will work the best with the WA22."

 I understand this as balanced in = balanced out through the balanced outputs, and SE in = SE out through either output. I have also read that the SE/TRS headphone jack sounds just as good as the balanced/XLR jack when using a balanced input, but IME that's not the case. When using the balanced inputs(s), the balanced outputs sound better to me.


----------



## dminches

I don't know much about the Furman conditioners but you need to get one that is not current limiting.  I have only Running Springs units for that reason.  I have 2 Dukes and a Haley.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For this price, I rather get a Perfectwave P5.


 
  Me too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Furman is a fancy isolation transformer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I don't know much about the Furman conditioners but you need to get one that is not current limiting.  I have only Running Springs units for that reason. * I have 2 Dukes and a Haley.*


 
   





 Sounds like a trio of Antique Classic Roadsters! Getting a component that's not current limiting is a great point; reminder.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My view mirrors grokit's but goes further to include cake & icing........... say what?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A perfectly prepared and balanced cake can stand on its own. But further benefits may be realized with a well made icing. And that is my take on a balanced amp and balanced cans. Once the amp achieves Common Mode Rejection from balanced inputs, the job is done. It is not necessary to plug into a balanced amp with balanced cans to benefit from CM.
   
  The balancing of headphones is an independent mission that may return additional benefits and this is cans-cables-routing-connector dependent. Some benefits may be realized using quality XLR connectors regardless of the cabling. 
   
  What's more, TRS is a compact XLR design and can be found on many consoles to save space inside studios. These are my pre-dinner thoughts, subject to change after a full fine meal... and dessert!


----------



## jc9394

​Regarding on WA22 balanced out, did you ever plug in both TRS and a balanced cable? It is balanced by design but the way Jack wired the output both balanced and TRS sounded the same. The mist important thing on WA22 is balanced in, not out. I will send my WA22 to Glenn to mod it fully balanced, in and out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Regarding on WA22 balanced out, did you ever plug in both TRS and a balanced cable? It is balanced by design but the way Jack wired the output both balanced and TRS sounded the same. *The most important thing on WA22 is balanced in, not out*. I will send my WA22 to Glenn to mod it fully balanced, in and out.


 
   
  Yes, you'll find that I express as much in my previous post - the emphasis on Balanced In. And yes, I have plugged into both jacks but not into a balanced '22' at the same time with both jacks. If the amp is of true balanced config, and the TRS of a true compact XLR design, it will sound the same in balanced mode - they are both balanced. Some may be of the impression there only exist 3-pin, 4-pin XLR for balanced jacks. You can add TRS to that list as well.
   
  Your pursuit is admirable. I was on the sideline when Glenn modded Malter's '22' the same way. As well as the discussion centered around Jack's reply and schematic above.


----------



## grokit

I can't say for sure as the balanced and SE headphone cables that I am comparing aren't identical, and I think there is something to certain headphones responding better than others to balanced cabling so I am not really comparing "apples to apples" in regards to saying that the balanced output sounds better than SE to my ears. The other reason that I think that it can be headphone dependent is that this only happens with some headphones and not others as I mentioned earlier.
   
  In regards to TRS plugs being the same as XLR, I would contend that this is true with interconnects but not with headphone cables. I use a pair of 3-pin XLR to stereo TRS cables when I want to go direct from my DAC to my RA160 speaker amp, and in this usage the stereo TRS plugs are +/- to both the L and R channels, using 2 of the 3 XLR pins and a stereo TRS for each side. In the studio, the stereo plugs are used for a single channel, and the mono plugs are for microphones and guitars etc. With a balanced headphone cable, you are doing the same thing using XLR termination, but if you terminate all four +/- L/R wires from the headphone into a single stereo TRS jack you have to join the ground at the plug, which defeats the purpose of using a balanced amp.
   
  At least that's the way I understand it


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For this price, I rather get a Perfectwave P5.


 
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Me too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   Quote: 





dminches said:


> I don't know much about the Furman conditioners but you need to get one that is not current limiting.  I have only Running Springs units for that reason.  I have 2 Dukes and a Haley.






   
  Thanks buddy.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Regarding on WA22 balanced out, did you ever plug in both TRS and a balanced cable? It is balanced by design but the way Jack wired the output both balanced and TRS sounded the same. The mist important thing on WA22 is balanced in, not out. I will send my WA22 to Glenn to mod it fully balanced, in and out.


 
   
  I start to regret and miss the WA22................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Must let us know how your babe sounds after mod.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I can't say for sure as the balanced and SE headphone cables that I am comparing aren't identical, and I think there is something to certain headphones responding better than others to balanced cabling so I am not really comparing "apples to apples" in regards to saying that the balanced output sounds better than SE to my ears. The other reason that I think that it can be headphone dependent is that this only happens with some headphones and not others as I mentioned earlier.
> 
> In regards to TRS plugs being the same as XLR, I would contend that this is true with interconnects but not with headphone cables. I use a pair of 3-pin XLR to stereo TRS cables when I want to go direct from my DAC to my RA160 speaker amp, and in this usage the stereo TRS plugs are +/- to both the L and R channels, using 2 of the 3 XLR pins and a stereo TRS for each side. In the studio, the stereo plugs are used for a single channel, and the mono plugs are for microphones and guitars etc. With a balanced headphone cable, you are doing the same thing using XLR termination, but if you terminate all four +/- L/R wires from the headphone into a single stereo TRS jack you have to join the ground at the plug, which defeats the purpose of using a balanced amp.
> 
> At least that's the way I understand it


 
   
  I think you've got a good understanding, while I am mixed... not mixed up, but rather mixed on the best configuration like... "So, what does it sound like" in the end , so to speak. I think outstanding and poor examples alike can be found. Not sure I'm ready to crown the G.O.A.T. I too, use a 3-pin XLR to TRS adapter. And also use an interface with both separate L/R TRS balanced outs. On the amp, it is the jack's TRS design which must be configured for XLR balanced not just the headphone/plug. This is what Jack states in the above example on the 1/4" plug. Due to the amp being Transformer Coupled, if input received is from a balanced source, the L/R channels on the 1/4" HPO have independent channels. But not in SE mode. This suggests, that when in full swing (true balanced input) all three of the headphone outs are XLR balanced but of different design.
   
  Also, balanced headphones aren't really balanced in the true sense of the word. But in audio we like using it! Also, at the heart of balanced architecture is Common Mode rejection. With a fully true balanced source like the W4S DACs for example, even single-ended users will benefit from CM into the amp, just in SE and at half the voltage. 
   
  However, I will offer that the more I'm enlightened, I will lighten my feet and change my stance.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I can't say for sure as the balanced and SE headphone cables that I am comparing aren't identical, and I think there is something to certain headphones responding better than others to balanced cabling so I am not really comparing "apples to apples" in regards to saying that the balanced output sounds better than SE to my ears. The other reason that I think that it can be headphone dependent is that this only happens with some headphones and not others as I mentioned earlier.
> 
> In regards to TRS plugs being the same as XLR, I would contend that this is true with interconnects but not with headphone cables. I use a pair of 3-pin XLR to stereo TRS cables when I want to go direct from my DAC to my RA160 speaker amp, and in this usage the stereo TRS plugs are +/- to both the L and R channels, using 2 of the 3 XLR pins and a stereo TRS for each side. In the studio, the stereo plugs are used for a single channel, and the mono plugs are for microphones and guitars etc. With a balanced headphone cable, you are doing the same thing using XLR termination, but if you terminate all four +/- L/R wires from the headphone into a single stereo TRS jack you have to join the ground at the plug, which defeats the purpose of using a balanced amp.
> 
> At least that's the way I understand it


 
   
  I have a Q Audio with 4 pin XLR and 4 pin XLR to TRS, to my ears (IMHO/YMMV/etc etc, strictly me only), both volume and sound quality is the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I did the same exact test on beta22, the difference is like night and day.  
   
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I start to regret and miss the WA22................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are not gonna get it back, will most likely never sell this bad boy.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Mike Malter did said the mod actually improved the balanced out since the TRS is disable until you plug in a TRS adapter.


----------



## Silent One

Me? I'm still working on Woo mono blocks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, not the TOTL. But forgoing a pre-owned WA22 and get a pair of pre-owned _6 Special Editions_, fitted & kitted and then block 'em with my pre-amp.


----------



## jc9394

dannie01 said:


> Thanks buddy.




If you are looking for power conditioner, the Perfectwave will fit the bill much better as it regenerate the power from the wall to perfect sine wave. I had a Power Plant before and love, sold it to fund the Perfectqave P5 but the budget went to another hobby instead. :mad:


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Does anyone have an idea of this FURMAN Symmetrically Balanced Power Conditioner, it looks very promising. It's like a rock weight *43KG*.


 

 That's a data center purposed power conditioner/distributor.  Note the ports are not your standard power ports.  It will work fine with your components that don't have permanently attached power cables but your power cable choices will be limited.  And make sure you remember to order cables when you order the PSU, or you'll be really frustrated!


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For those WooAudio amp owners using the 2010 Mac mini and later as a music server, this pix is for you!
> 
> Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform:
> 
> ...


 

 Very Nice!  I'm just beginning to explore isolation solutions.  I'm ordering a 5 shelf salamander rack to hold everything and I want to use mechanical isolation too on the WA2, the Musical Fidelity M1 and the Denon DBP-1611 universal player.  Do you know anything about those vinyl cones with the ball bearings?


----------



## Silent One

Currently in-session with The Isley Brothers - Live It Up (1974)
   
  Which vinyl cones with ball bearings do you refer (name)?


----------



## SeeHear

I just listened to Miles' Seven Steps to Heaven as I arrange things for my just-come-home WA2.  Think I'll play some Isley's now - Go for Your Guns!
   
  I forget the name of the isolators - give me a few minutes, I'll find them


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently in-session with The Isley Brothers - Live It Up (1974)
> 
> Which vinyl cones with ball bearings do you refer (name)?


 

 They are called Vibrapods:
 I like the idea of a high mass platform (like your lead filled acrylic) with the cones...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I'm aware of them but have never used them before. At a price like that, it'd sure be worth checking out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I just listened to Miles' Seven Steps to Heaven as I arrange things for my just-come-home WA2.  Think I'll play some Isley's now - Go for Your Guns!
> 
> I forget the name of the isolators - give me a few minutes, I'll find them


 
   





 You've some great music in the queue.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, I'm aware of them but have never used them before. At a price like that, it'd sure be worth checking out.


 

 That's what I was thinking.  I'm going to look for them locally today; if I can't find them I will order them tonight.


----------



## SeeHear

Baby's Home!   
  Here a are a couple of pix of my WA2 post mod.  The bad tube was replaced with a fresh pair (thanks, Jack) and the second pre-out was added, along with a switch for the pre-outs.
   
   
 
   
   
  First impressions: 
   

 She sounds even better than before (that first driver tube must have been bad on arrival and only got worse until it failed), and images like crazy!  Miles' trumpet sounds pretty damn life like, as does George Coleman's saxophone!
 Tone and timing are outstanding - this is why I bought this amp.  When I first got it, I was not as pleased as I expected.  But, I knew what I heard at the show, so I was willing to give it time.  I'm glad it turned out to be the tube because I was beginning to have misgivings. No more!  This is great!
 I am not super impressed with the drill job for the second output.  I'm going to ask Jack about that. 
 I was not expecting the pre-out switch to act as an output selector.  It chooses between headphone and pre-out now.  Not sure if that is a problem for me, just not what I expected.  The reality is that I rarely, if ever _want_ them both on. 
 I haven't connected my sub to the pre-out yet.  Those impressions will follow in a later post.  Right now, I'd rather listen than write!
   
  Cheers!


----------



## K_19

Hey all,
   
  Having a bit of a problem with my WA6SE and I was wondering anyone can help me out in diagnosing the problem...
   
  I'm having some volume imbalance/centering issues as of late. At first I thought it was because of my aging tubes, but upon trying few things I'm not so sure if it's the problem with the tubes...
   
  - I first though it was the tubes because when I switched the tubes, the "center" shifted sides slightly. This is weird however, since I bought these driver tubes matched and never mixed them up.
  - I recently bought some of Skylab's driver tubes, which are well matched, but they have the same issue. Center seems slightly biased to one side. 
  - I doubt it's my source's problem as they're fine with my other amp, Stello HP100. Not to mention that switching tubes switches the centering also.
  - It's not my Hiface's problem either, even with Stello USB they have same issues.
   
  My WA6SE's actually pretty old... it's actually the original prototype that was refurbished a while ago. I'm thinking perhaps this amp can't tolerate even the slightest mismatch of the driver tubes, but I figure a good tube amp should be able to tolerate less than a perfect match as long as the difference is slight? 
   
  What do you guys think? What else should I try to properly diagnose the problem?


----------



## keph

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Having a bit of a problem with my WA6SE and I was wondering anyone can help me out in diagnosing the problem...
> 
> ...


 
   
  What tubes are you using?  for me once the windows volume balance control was messed up it was supposed to be 100% for L and R but somehow that time it was L 60% and R at 90%..try check that out..


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





keph said:


> What tubes are you using?  for me once the windows volume balance control was messed up it was supposed to be 100% for L and R but somehow that time it was L 60% and R at 90%..try check that out..


 

 EML 5U4G and RCA or ITT 6DE7's. As it's the old model I'm quite limited in selection of usable driver tubes.. 
   
  I've checked the volume control and both are 100%.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





seehear said:


> That's a data center purposed power conditioner/distributor.  Note the ports are not your standard power ports.  It will work fine with your components that don't have permanently attached power cables but your power cable choices will be limited.  And make sure you remember to order cables when you order the PSU, or you'll be really frustrated!


 
   
  I just recognized that, thanks.


----------



## grokit

Well you guys convinced me to try filtering my power, to see if there's any difference. I have a PS Audio UPC-200 incoming, will use it with their Power Punch cable in, and hospital cords out. If it makes any difference, I will consider getting a re-generator and move the UPC-2000 to my bedroom rig.
   

   
  "Based on a completely redesigned and much improved common mode Balun filter, the UPC 200 can provide unrestricted AC power to your equipment along with major audio and video performance improvements."
   
  I've always thought my power is pretty clean, we shall see. If nothing else it will look cool on top of my GCPH


----------



## grokit

Speaking of power cords, I just came across an old thread that gave me the giggles:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/293165/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3


----------



## steel108

I don't really want to run bootcamp on the Mac mini, but I'm having trouble finding something comparable to JRiver. I would need it to obviously play FLAC and be able to control via an iPad (not using a monitor). Any Mac people have suggestions?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Baby's Home!
> Here a are a couple of pix of my WA2 post mod.  The bad tube was replaced with a fresh pair (thanks, Jack) and the second pre-out was added, along with a switch for the pre-outs.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Welcome home!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Baby's Home!
> Here a are a couple of pix of my WA2 post mod.  The bad tube was replaced with a fresh pair (thanks, Jack) and the second pre-out was added, along with a switch for the pre-outs.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Are your pre-RCA-outs to hook up to a sub-woofer to listen to headphones with or just to use the Woo as a pre-amp for a speaker rig? As written it looks like you may use the two pre-outs to go to a sub and speaker amp both at the same time.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





steel108 said:


> I don't really want to run bootcamp on the Mac mini, but I'm having trouble finding something comparable to JRiver. I would need it to obviously play FLAC and be able to control via an iPad (not using a monitor). Any Mac people have suggestions?


 
  You can also try Paralles I use it on my mini, it works great.  
   
  J. River is said to be coming out with a Mac version sometime in the future.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Are your pre-RCA-outs to hook up to a sub-woofer to listen to headphones with or just to use the Woo as a pre-amp for a speaker rig? As written it looks like you may use the two pre-outs to go to a sub and speaker amp both at the same time.


 

 Yes, the pre-outs are for power amp and subwoofer. 
   
  Unfortunately, all is not happy at home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There is a pronounced shift of the image to the left.  It's as if there is a balance control adjusted left of center.  Could this be due to something easily fixable, like mismatched tubes (I only assumed a fresh pair of tubes was provided, maybe only one new tube was provided)?  Or, was something set awry when the second pre-out and switch were installed? 
   
  Sorry if my questions are elementary; I have 35 years of solid state experience but this is my first tube amp and I don't know what I don't know.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Yes, the pre-outs are for power amp and subwoofer.
> 
> Unfortunately, all is not happy at home.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry to hear that. Let the fresh tubes run-in for about 30mins and listen to it agian. If image shift still exist and you have only one pair of power tubes for the amp. 
   
  1/ Check the interconnect cable from the source, make sure thay are connected firmly.
  2/ Swap the L & R channel to test if the un-balance sound interchanged, these steps make sure the un-balance sound not from the cables and source. If problem still exist, it might be mis-matched tubes.
  3/ Swap the tubes like the interconnect cable.
   
  If you still hear un-balance sound in same channel, there should be something wrong with the amp, not source, cables or tubes though.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Unfortunately, all is not happy at home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very sorry to hear about this. My WA22 came back from service at Woo recently with issues as well. When they serviced it a year or two ago, I was very pleased and started the appreciation thread for them. It seems that there are some problems in the service department now, I suppose it's part of Woo's growing pains. My main issue is cosmetic rather than functional, so it's not as bad as yours but it will definitely affect resale value if not resolved. I will give a full report when this issue is resolved but I am not pleased ATM.
   
  Hopefully you will be able to solve your issue without having to send your amp back to them, which is what I am trying to do as well.


----------



## Groundzero

I thought I'd leave this here for fellow Woo owners to see: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Tung-Sol-6DE7-Dual-Dissimilar-Triode-Tubes-NOS-NIB-Tested-Matched-/270995896219?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f189d379b#ht_2435wt_1268
   
  My TS 6DE7s are hands down my favourite tube for my 6-SE in terms of pure enjoyment, even beating out various 6SN7. 
   
  (I have no connection to the seller)


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> I thought I'd leave this here for fellow Woo owners to see: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Tung-Sol-6DE7-Dual-Dissimilar-Triode-Tubes-NOS-NIB-Tested-Matched-/270995896219?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f189d379b#ht_2435wt_1268
> 
> My TS 6DE7s are hands down my favourite tube for my 6-SE in terms of pure enjoyment, even beating out various 6SN7.
> 
> (I have no connection to the seller)


 
   
  No longer available! Cause I bought 'em! I got excited by the use of "hands down" and "pure enjoyment" and, sad to say, for this hobby getting out the door for $20 seems like a steal. At this point in my tube experience, I'd probably buy a ziplock baggy full of sand if it were priced under twenty and had Tung-Sol silkscreened on the front.
   
  Glib silliness aside, I am running my (Silent One's) _Woo Audio 6 Special Edition _with a handful of 6SN7s through a pair of Glenn's adapters that S-O bequeathed me. This will be my first pair of 6DE7s. I feel like I am filing out a bingo card.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> No longer available! Cause I bought 'em! I got excited by the use of "hands down" and "pure enjoyment" and, sad to say, for this hobby getting out the door for $20 seems like a steal. At this point in my tube experience, I'd probably buy a ziplock baggy full of sand if it were priced under twenty and had Tung-Sol silkscreened on the front.
> 
> Glib silliness aside, I am running my (Silent One's) _Woo Audio 6 Special Edition _with a handful of 6SN7s through a pair of Glenn's adapters that S-O bequeathed me. This will be my first pair of 6DE7s. I feel like I am filing out a bingo card.


 
  nice!
   
  i was actually thinking about buying them since they where really cheap and NIB. however, i'm happy with my Raytheon 6ew7 and gotta save my money llol.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very nice to see you in this space, especially with new tubes, sand filled baggies... what's not to love?!


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i was actually thinking about buying them since they where really cheap and NIB. however, i'm happy with my Raytheon 6ew7 and gotta save my money llol.


 
   
  I am doubly pleased that I was able to remove the object of your temptation AND acquire some new tubes. Mashed potatoes, meet gravy.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Very nice to see you in this space, especially with new tubes, sand filled baggies... what's not to love?!


 
   
  Thank you, SO-san. I felt like I had more than used up my allotment of "non-Woo-owner" posts but now, as an owner of a _WA6SE, _I suppose I've got license to mosey in more frequently. Might even speak my spoke every once in a while. As I told you via PM, the two hours of listening I was able to get in at home was heavenly. I shoulda brought it back to Malaysia with me.
   
  Love the new avatar. Felix was a personal fave of mine as a kid. Felix with a bomb? Too good to be true.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Sorry to hear that. Let the fresh tubes run-in for about 30mins and listen to it agian. If image shift still exist and you have only one pair of power tubes for the amp.
> 
> 1/ Check the interconnect cable from the source, make sure thay are connected firmly.
> 2/ Swap the L & R channel to test if the un-balance sound interchanged, these steps make sure the un-balance sound not from the cables and source. If problem still exist, it might be mis-matched tubes.
> ...


 
  I listened for several hours, switching interconnects and putting my old pre-amp back in the system.  Unfortuneately, it is the WA2.  The amp sounded great, except for the image shift left of center.  Today, I tried it again before sending an email to Jack and discovered a high-pitched whine as well.  Hopefuly I can run it back to them today and get the rear panel and balance issues corrected.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I listened for several hours, switching interconnects and putting my old pre-amp back in the system.  Unfortuneately, it is the WA2.  The amp sounded great, except for the image shift left of center.  Today, I tried it again before sending an email to Jack and discovered a high-pitched whine as well.  Hopefuly I can run it back to them today and get the rear panel and balance issues corrected.


 
   
  Good luck.


----------



## musicman59

I crossed emails with Jack this morning and order a pair of the Woo Teflon 596 adapters for my collection. He said quiantities are limited so if you are interested hurry up and order.


----------



## Silent One

I've followed a few of your steps with great success, musicman59. I want to hear see your '596' adapter.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've followed a few of your steps with great success, musicman59. I want to hear see your '596' adapter.


 
   
  Jack said they will be shipped by the end of the month. I will post pictures as they arrive.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *musicman59* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Jack said they _*will be shipped by the end of the month*_. I will post pictures as they arrive.


 
   
  His business must be getting better and better lately.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Look forward for your pics, musicman59.


----------



## hodgjy

My WA3 also exhibits a high-pitched wine that sometimes morphs into a buzz or squeal.  It is perplexing.  I cannot find the cause of it.  Also, the hole drilled for the power tube is so off-center that I cannot fit in a large-base 6080, such as the GEC 6080, into the hole despite it being labeled "6080".
   
  I know I will take some heat for this comment, but I don't really care.  As simple as the Woo circuits are, I am really disappointed with how often noises pop up in the different users' amps.  There has to be a flaw in the design, or something is wrong with the hand construction.  What's more disappointing is the typical response from Woo saying, "If you can't hear it when the music is playing, then it's of no consequence."  Well, it is.  Also, I've read enough complaints about cosmetic stuff to realize that the "handmade charm" has become more of "handmade slop."
   
  My love affair with my little Woo was great while it lasted, but I probably will never buy another Woo product again.
   
  Quote: 





seehear said:


> I listened for several hours, switching interconnects and putting my old pre-amp back in the system.  Unfortuneately, it is the WA2.  The amp sounded great, except for the image shift left of center.  Today, I tried it again before sending an email to Jack and discovered a high-pitched whine as well.  Hopefuly I can run it back to them today and get the rear panel and balance issues corrected.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My WA3 also exhibits a high-pitched wine that sometimes morphs into a buzz or squeal.  It is perplexing.  I cannot find the cause of it.  Also, the hole drilled for the power tube is so off-center that I cannot fit in a large-base 6080, such as the GEC 6080, into the hole despite it being labeled "6080".
> 
> I know I will take some heat for this comment, but I don't really care.  As simple as the Woo circuits are, I am really disappointed with how often noises pop up in the different users' amps.  There has to be a flaw in the design, or something is wrong with the hand construction.  What's more disappointing is the typical response from Woo saying, "If you can't hear it when the music is playing, then it's of no consequence."  Well, it is.  Also, I've read enough complaints about cosmetic stuff to realize that the "handmade charm" has become more of "handmade slop."
> 
> ...


 
   
  Some of us followed you on that painful journey with the whining and squealing ( it's a pig! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) from your beloved WA3. To hear today that it remains unresolved, it reminds me of your decision not to sell it without disclosure, though you could have. Your integrity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 speaks volumes.
   
  News of the misaligned hole saddens me further. Even if I purchased the amp pre-owned, if it limited my tube options, I would have politely returned it with an email preceding its arrival. I'm perplexed that a manufacturer wouldn't simply swap you out, then analyze the problem later. Perhaps, if parts were rare, but in this case...




   
  Looking forward to hearing that SeeHear gets taken care of.


----------



## hodgjy

I can fit RCA 6080 and Sylvania 7236 tubes just fine. Same goes for Tung-Sol 7236. But, there's no way a GEC 6080 is getting I there without a socket saver. I read about this problem on another forum, and the "solution" was to use socket savers. I don't particularly like 6080 tubes, so it was mainly my cosmetic OCD kicking in.

My decision to not sell the amp was mainly from the squeal, but also due to the hole misalignment. I honestly did not want to take that many pictures of it and describing which tube would fit and which would not. I would have if I actually listed it for sale, but I mean, after all that and the squealing, who'd buy it?


----------



## grokit

If it was heavily discounted, it would certainly be attractive (and rewarding) project for a DIY-er.


----------



## Silent One

Those were my thoughts. I would have wrapped it up if I had not done the current OTL already...


----------



## Sid-Fi

I thought i would paste some impressions i posted on the 6SN7 thread regarding tube impressions on my WA22 in the event they might be helpful to any of my Woo brothers here...
   
   

 A local head-fi'er lent me his TS BGRP yesterday. After just a couple of hours with them, my take is that they are more well-rounded and balanced overall, as well as just a tad more refined, compared to my main driver tubes - Sylvania 6SN7GTA, and RCA VT231.

 Here is what I mean. The Sylvania have flat out awesome mids and lovely treble. Everything has a nice polished, warm, smooth sound. It really pulls me in and immerses me in the music. However, the bass is notably recessed to my ears and makes quartet style jazz sound a tad off with upright bass being much quieter than I would expect in real life. In comparison to the Sylvania, the TS BGRP have a much fuller presentation with very pronounced and articulate bass. The same quartet jazz CDs showcase the uprighht bass more realistically as a prominent part of the music. However, it gives up a touch of that truly lovely and immersive warmth - still good, but with a tad more analytical take.

 I was very pleased to find that my RCA VT231 smoke glass have very similar warm, and engaging mids like the Sylvania, but add more bass presence and impact to the presentation. This makes them a pretty awesome all-around tube which I now definitely prefer over the Sylvania, although it took many A/B comparisons. Comparing the TS BGRP to the RCA smoke glass, they actually seem fairly close to each other. The main difference is that the TS BGRP is a little more resolving and refined to my ears. However, it still gives up that layer of warmth and musicality to the RCA. In other words, the TS BGRP seems the technical champion. That being said, I can't say yet that I prefer them to the RCA. It's just hard to give up that smooth polished touch they add.

 Thanks for the comments Rosgr63 and Skylab. I would be interested to hear if my impressions match yours or differ.

 This has been indeed been a great thread that I have learned a lot from. As a beginner to tubes, this thread and the 6SN7 Reference thread have been awesome and have helped me to get my bearings. Cheers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I thought i would paste some impressions i posted on the 6SN7 thread regarding tube impressions on my WA22 *in the event they might be helpful to any of my Woo brothers here...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Currently in-session with Tina Guo - "Forbidden City." Honey is wild & wicked on this track 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 playing electric cello! A must listen from her CD "The Journey." Anyway, cheers to your impressions and the sharing of them.
   
  However, I'm pleased to announce we sit among a few WooAudio amp owning sisters as well in this thread...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Cheers to my Woo sisters as well!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Man, SO, you're light years ahead of me in music discovery. I've hardly ever heard any of the artists that you cheers too. I need to PM you for some of your all-time favorite must-listen recommendations


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Some of us followed you on that painful journey with the whining and squealing ( it's a pig!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No luck here...  Jack says either noise isn't there because they ran my amp for several hours and they didn't hear it; or, the noise is my fault because I have placed other equipment too near the Woo.  As far as the badly drilled pre-out, that "can not be aligned since it's a modification"!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 Silent One, sitting... well, _silent... and disappointed._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Cheers to my Woo sisters as well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Recommendations? This could take a while...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have some Champagne?  Will be happy to share Summer 2012. Twice a year I usually push my music library out the door in PDF to a few members. So, I can share what's cookin' in my kitchen - lots of Jazz, Blues, Zydeco, African, Indian... lots of stuff including Classical.
   
  I write a lot of personal letters ('round the world) and having music outside of just favorites expands my horizon. I remember vividly the very first letter I penned to a friend, sharing my new found passion for my days old _WA 6 Special Edition. _I dedicated the first two pages to aesthetics alone, but I failed to include a photograph. Still, she was so happy for me. But admitted she didn't get it... my passion for this new amp. And asked in the sweetest voice long distance "Does it do anything else?"


----------



## hodgjy

Very typical response from Woo Audio based on my experience and reading many posts on these matters. It seems they have become very unsympathetic these days. Perhaps they've grown too big for their britches.



seehear said:


> No luck here...  Jack says either noise isn't there because they ran my amp for several hours and they didn't hear it; or, the noise is my fault because I have placed other equipment too near the Woo.  As far as the badly drilled pre-out, that "can not be aligned since it's a modification"!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Very typical response from Woo Audio based on my experience and reading many posts on these matters. It seems they have become very unsympathetic these days. Perhaps they've grown too big for their britches.


 
   
  Really, too big for their britches? Or perhaps Jack knows exactly how to test his amps. Is it inconceivable that the noise is in fact unrelated to the design or construction of the amp, and that it is caused by either the tubes being used or other external influences? Any objectionable noise that I ever heard was in fact caused by tubes.
   
  IME, It is the somewhat rare tube combinations that are absolutely dead quiet without music playing. And I do have such combinations, but not all of my collection is dead quiet.
   
  It is clear that you no longer like or want Woo products. We heard you. There are however other opinions to the contrary held by other posters here.


----------



## hodgjy

@Nututubes, we will just have to agree to disagree on this matter.  Cheers, my friend.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Very typical response from Woo Audio based on my experience and reading many posts on these matters. It seems they have become very unsympathetic these days. Perhaps they've grown too big for their britches.


 
  Hello hodgjy
   
  I should be starting working on things in a couple of weeks if you want I can fix the amp the most expensive part will be shipping.  But maybe not so bad from GA to NC not that
  far away.  These amps are simple circuits easy to fix.
  Glenn


----------



## dannie01

Hey Glenn, nice to hear you again here.


----------



## grokit

So instead of getting a backup for my Sophia Princess 274B, I took a chance on a "PSVANE 274B Rectifier Tube Western Electric WE274B Replica". It's smaller than my Sophia but bigger than the real WE274B:
   
 
  (1st shot mine, 2nd from Psvane)
   
  It hardly lights up at all for a clear tube, much less than the Princess, just two little orange dots on top:
   

  Bad pic, but you can see what I mean.
   
  With the HD800/Shuggie Treasure drivers/GEC 6A7SG power tubes, it reminds me of a cross between the EML 5U4G and the EML 274B, but with a hint of the Princess's dynamics.
   
  Early impression is that I think I like it; it will be interesting when I put in the 7236 power tubes and try with LCD2.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice Grokit. Thanks for sharing. That's a pretty sweet looking tube - dig the logo work on it. I'm currently using the princess as my go-to rectifier and am really looking forward to your impressions! Do you mind sharing what the general cost of the Psvane is compared to the Sophia?
   
  Enjoy





   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> So instead of getting a backup for my Sophia Princess 274B, I took a chance on a "PSVANE 274B Rectifier Tube Western Electric WE274B Replica". It's smaller than my Sophia but bigger than the real WE274B:
> 
> 
> (1st shot mine, 2nd from Psvane)
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1.  Hope you're feeling better!
   
  On a side note, my 6F8G adapters probably wouldn't be picking up noise interference if I had one of Glen's from what I hear. 
   
  Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey Glenn, nice to hear you again here.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Nice Grokit. Thanks for sharing. That's a pretty sweet looking tube - dig the logo work on it. I'm currently using the princess as my go-to rectifier and am really looking forward to your impressions! Do you mind sharing what the general cost of the Psvane is compared to the Sophia?


 
   
  The Sophia seems to go from $120 - $160 as far as I can tell. The Psvane was $116 including the slow boat from China:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/230740108706?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  edit: There it is, it's evidently made by Shuguang for Psvane. I thought I remembered that.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Sweet, thanks for the link and info. Man, I know it's just cosmetics and we're talking audio here...but that is one sweet looking tube. I want it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Sophia seems to go from $120 - $160 as far as I can tell. The Psvane was $116 including the slow boat from China:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/230740108706?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> edit: There it is, it's evidently made by Shuguang for Psvane. I thought I remembered that.


----------



## hodgjy

Hi Glenn!

I'm glad you're starting to feel better. That would be fantastic if you could look my amp over. Please contact me whenever you are feeling better and get the itch to tear into an amp.

Many thanks!



2359glenn said:


> Hello hodgjy
> 
> I should be starting working on things in a couple of weeks if you want I can fix the amp the most expensive part will be shipping.  But maybe not so bad from GA to NC not that
> far away.  These amps are simple circuits easy to fix.
> Glenn


----------



## keph

Thank God im in China...i can get the Psvane easily and more cheap...hehe..so how does the Psvane compare with Sophia Princess?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Hey Glenn, nice to hear you again here.


 
   
  Silent One backs dannie01!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> +1.  Hope you're feeling better!
> 
> On a side note, my 6F8G adapters probably wouldn't be picking up noise interference if I had one of Glen's from what I hear.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm standing in line... just over your shoulder for a 6F8G adapter too.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





keph said:


> Thank God im in China...i can get the Psvane easily and more cheap...hehe..so how does the Psvane compare with Sophia Princess?


 
   
  It will be a while before I can come to a conclusion on that, so stay tuned!
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Sid-Fi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> On a side note, my 6F8G adapters probably wouldn't be picking up noise interference if I had one of Glen's from what I hear.


 
   
  I have Glenn's 6F8G adapters, no interference at all.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


 
   
  I love to try the WE rectifiers or 300B but their price are sky high.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have Glenn's 6F8G adapters, no interference at all.


 
   
  X 2


----------



## Sid-Fi

I wasn't getting any interference with my Mullard GZ37. However I am getting interference now that I'm using the Sophia Princess, which is substantially wider and closer to the adapter wires.



dannie01 said:


> X 2


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I wasn't getting any interference with my Mullard GZ37. However I am getting interference now that I'm using the Sophia Princess, which is substantially wider and closer to the adapter wires.


 
   
  As I can remember, I also hear no interference when used with EML 5U4G Mesh Plate (this is the biggest rectifier ever tried) and Mullard GZ34, didn't try any Sophia.


----------



## grokit

I've used the Princess and the EML rectifiers with Glenn's adapters in place. No interference. He asked me what amp I was going to use them in, and said it was important with the WA22 to face the wires opposite the rectifier.


----------



## Clevor

seehear said:


> No luck here...  Jack says either noise isn't there because they ran my amp for several hours and they didn't hear it; or, the noise is my fault because I have placed other equipment too near the Woo.  As far as the badly drilled pre-out, that "can not be aligned since it's a modification"!



 
 I think what Jack means is that probably all the panels for their amps are built via CNC machining, which is computer controlled. This is done by the machine shop they contract with (from the looks of my WA5SE, it's a good one). If they do a mod or customization where they have to put a hole where there normally isn't one, it will have to be drilled by hand. Which is of course subject to human error. Of course, if anybody is having issues like this on a new amp, make sure it's resolved during the warrantee period. I guess it's more of a problem on equipment received back after service.


----------



## Clevor

dannie01 said:


> I love to try the WE rectifiers or 300B but their price are sky high.



 
 Did you see the pair of NOS WE300Bs that were sold on Ebay a couple of weeks ago? Going rates for these now are maybe $3-5K for a set that tests pretty good. If you think that's bad, this pair went for $10,000!!! Because it tested as almost new. The seller had a second pair that went for $8,000. Pretty ridiculous!


----------



## grokit

It's way past ridiculous, that's why there's Chinese knock-offs


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





clevor said:


> Did you see the pair of NOS WE300Bs that were sold on Ebay a couple of weeks ago? Going rates for these now are maybe $3-5K for a set that tests pretty good. If you think that's bad, this pair went for $10,000!!! Because it tested as almost new. The seller had a second pair that went for $8,000. Pretty ridiculous!


 
   





 It's not ridiculous, it's about crazy and will much crazier in the future.  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> It's way past ridiculous, that's why there's _*Chinese knock-offs*_


 
   
  Can't agree more.


----------



## lolovitch

Hello everybody!
   
  While a long-time reader to the forum, here I am with my first post. I am happily using it to officially apply for membership in your circle: I ordered my WA22 yesterday!
   
  Background is that I started using headphones more and more following the birth of our son last year. Funnily enough he was not sensitive to music at all during the first months (he could fall asleep in from of the loudspeakers) but is being more and more disturbed by my listening in the evenings. I am currently using a HD650 with the headphone output of my NAD C375, which I think is very good for an integrated amp. Nevertheless I can see that these changing family dynamics will lead me more and more towards using headphones, hence the intention to gradually upgrade my setup.
   
  I am glad that I found this community, where I am sure I will find answers to my numerous upcoming questions.


----------



## grokit

Welcome to the club lolovitch, and congrats on your WA22!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grats! i gotta join the WA22 club soon too


----------



## dannie01

Congrats lolovitch & Dubstep Girl.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Congrats lolovitch & Dubstep Girl.


 
  gotta join that club soon, i haven't yet lol. just waiting till i get a job


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> gotta join that club soon, i haven't yet lol. just waiting till i get a job


 
   
  Pre-celebration?!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Pre-celebration?!


 
  sure!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> sure!


 
   
  For both you get a job very soon and the WA22.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





lolovitch said:


> Hello everybody!
> 
> While a long-time reader to the forum, here I am with my first post. I am happily using it to officially apply for membership in your circle: I ordered my WA22 yesterday!
> 
> ...


 
  Welcome lolovitch. Since you got the WA22, will you be feeding it a balanced source?


----------



## lolovitch

Thanks everybody for the warm welcome.
   
  Quote:


golfnutz said:


> Welcome lolovitch. Since you got the WA22, will you be feeding it a balanced source?


 
   
  Re balanced source: nothing yet in my rack. But I don't think I will be able to refrain for long before adding a balanced DAC (Actually I started reading reviews literally minutes after ordering the WA22).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





lolovitch said:


> Thanks everybody for the warm welcome.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> Re balanced source: nothing yet in my rack. But I don't think I will be able to refrain for long before adding a balanced DAC (Actually I started reading reviews literally minutes after ordering the WA22).


 
   
  There are a lot of good review and pairing of W4S DAC2 and WA22.  I never tried the W4S DAC2 but I love the PS Audio PWD, it is also a music server too when you have the Bridge option.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> There are a lot of good review and pairing of W4S DAC2 and WA22.  I never tried the W4S DAC2 but I love the PS Audio PWD, it is also a music server too when you have the Bridge option.


 
   
  Other than the W4 DAC2, the Mytek Stereo 192 performing similar function and also with some good reveiws, it can convert DSD files, too. There is long discussion thread in Computer Audiophile may worth a look.


----------



## dannie01

After Silent One's thick and massive "chopping board" and the Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform with spikes for his system. I followed and bought a set "new shoes" for the WA5LE, the Viablue QTC Spikes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  They look very nice and feel solid. For initial impression after putting in the amp for about an hour, sound feel a bit more micro detail on highs but lush with no fatigue from the LCD-3, bass is also a bit tighter but still dive deep, more 3 dimension with good separation and better soundstage.
   
  It may be no sonic different with the stock footers and this is only my illusion or just psychologically feeling good because they really look nice with the WA5LE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> After Silent One's thick and massive "chopping board" and the Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform with spikes for his system. I followed and bought a set "new shoes" for the WA5LE, the Viablue QTC Spikes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I take this and ignore this post.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I take this and ignore this post.


 
   
  Thank you very much, John.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> It may be no sonic different with the stock footers and this is only my illusion or just psychologically feeling good because they really look nice with the WA5LE.


 
  Works for me, as they do look very nice


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> After Silent One's thick and massive "chopping board" and the Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform with spikes for his system. I followed and bought a set "new shoes" for the WA5LE, the Viablue QTC Spikes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  All dolled up for a night at the Opera? Well then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With beauty like this, I'm going to have to subscribe to this thread.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think over time (at least a month) the more he listens, he'll know one way or another if he's benefiting from the new presentation. Especially if he yanks 'em out for a night or two!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You too, could have your forthcoming WA5 sitting on Viablue QTC Spikes, if you send your WA22 out to the West Coast.


----------



## musicman59

dannie01 said:


> After Silent One's thick and massive "chopping board" and the Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform with spikes for his system. I followed and bought a set "new shoes" for the WA5LE, the Viablue QTC Spikes.
> 
> They look very nice and feel solid. For initial impression after putting in the amp for about an hour, sound feel a bit more micro detail on highs but lush with no fatigue from the LCD-3, bass is also a bit tighter but still dive deep, more 3 dimension with good separation and better soundstage.
> 
> It may be no sonic different with the stock footers and this is only my illusion or just psychologically feeling good because they really look nice with the WA5LE.



Good job Dannie. I use those in my WA5-LE too.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You too, could have your forthcoming WA5 sitting on Viablue QTC Spikes, if you send your WA22 out to the West Coast.


 
   
  It will be shipping soon but not west coast, going to see the doctor to get the last mod done.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Certainly, I understand. First, our doctor has to see his doctor and then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I wouldn't want to buy it prematurely before enhanced, so good move!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well I haven't tried any other headphones or tube combos yet, but I can say that I am very pleased so far with the Psvane. It seems to have filled out a bit from my first session with it, and that is a very good thing because I thought it might have been a bit thin sounding, like the EML 274B. So it's either settling down or I am adjusting to it, but as it is a brand new tube I'll go with the former. It's above the EMLs and right up there with my favorites, the Princess and the 596. Kind of like a cross between the Princess and the EML 5U4G, with a little EML 274B thrown in. Great separation, punchy bass and extended highs, but the best part is the mids. They seem to be tuned to bring out the best in vocals, especially female; Norah Jones has never sounded so good!


----------



## Silent One

@ grokit
   
  Now that you've checked in here with Norah, can't wait for you to return with impressions from her sister! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   

   
  Half-sister Anoushka Shankar


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> @ grokit
> 
> Now that you've checked in Norah, can't wait for you to return with impressions from her sister! :tongue_smile:
> 
> ...




Woah, I'm supporting her.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ grokit
> 
> Now that you've checked in Norah, can't wait for you to return with impressions from her sister!
> 
> ...


 
   
  She's very talented. I take it she doesn't sing at all though?
   
  I found some great clips that aren't on YouTube:
   
  http://video.pbs.org/video/2232192575/


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, she does sing. In fact, it is her CD "Rise" that's featured in last year's Ads for the Logitech Squeezebox Touch.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Her and Norah have the same father... my beloved _WA 6 Special Edition_ relished amplifying her notes.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





clevor said:


> I think what Jack means is that probably all the panels for their amps are built via CNC machining, which is computer controlled. This is done by the machine shop they contract with (from the looks of my WA5SE, it's a good one). If they do a mod or customization where they have to put a hole where there normally isn't one, it will have to be drilled by hand. Which is of course subject to human error.Of course, if anybody is having issues like this on a new amp, make sure it's resolved during the warrantee period. I guess it's more of a problem on equipment received back after service.


 

 Yes, that's exactly what he meant.  I didn't expect a new machined rear panel, but I did expect it to look like it was done with care and attention to detail.  Honestly, though, the misdrill would be livable if it were the only problem.
   
  I am approaching the end of my 30 day evaluation period and I'm very nervous about an amp that has been out of commission more than it's been in.  To be sure, the music coming through it sounds great when I can hear it; but the noise and the image shift give me pause.  Then there's the oscillation!  Nothing makes me move to the power switch faster than seeing my Adam Compact's woofer move in and out at nearly full excursion so slowly I can count the hertz...  Jack has committed to fixing the amp so the noise and oscillation is not present.  I hope to drop it off tomorrow.
   
  I'm hoping the image shift is a matter of getting tubes that match.  The squeal and oscillation are the real deal breakers. The fact that I can't predict their onset and that it has no apparent relationship to the position of the source selector, the volume level or the musical signal makes it too random to accept, especially given the frequency with which it occurs.  I really hope it all gets sorted as I love the idea of owning a great sounding amp from a small, local company - just not as much as I hate the idea of a 4 figure dust collector...  No matter how cool it looks.
   
  When the WA2 sounded right, it was really, really right.  I just need that to be a consistent experience.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Her and Norah have the same father... my beloved _WA 6 Special Edition_ relished amplifying her notes.


 

 +1 on that.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> After Silent One's thick and massive "chopping board" and the Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform with spikes for his system. I followed and bought a set "new shoes" for the WA5LE, the Viablue QTC Spikes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice!  Do they help stop vibrations from sounding through the tubes?  Hmm... Maybe, if I try really hard, I could word that more awkwardly.  I mean, does it help keep ambient vibration from being heard through the amp's outputs?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Good job Dannie. I use those in my WA5-LE too.


 
   
  I followed you, too.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Very nice!  Do they help stop vibrations from sounding through the tubes?  Hmm... Maybe, if I try really hard, I could word that more awkwardly.  I mean, does it help keep ambient vibration from being heard through the amp's outputs?


 
   
  Thanks, I didn't hear any ambient vibration before putting them in so why I say "It may be no sonic different with the stock footers and this is only my illusion or just psychologically feeling good because they really look nice with the WA5LE". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  But I concur it really make the highs clearer better separation on classical music instrument and a bit tighten the bass


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Thanks, I didn't hear any ambient vibration before putting them in so why I say "It may be no sonic different with the stock footers and this is only my illusion or just psychologically feeling good because they really look nice with the WA5LE".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  i really should stay off this site, at least this thread.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm looking at those spikes now, two sets.  wa22 and beta22.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> i really should stay off this site, at least this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wrong, 3 sets total 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. First set for the WA22, the second set for Beta 22 driver and the third set for th Beta 22 PSU.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Wrong, 3 sets total
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Why do you remind me???  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  OK, three sets.  Waiting from Corey if the beta22 can take them.


----------



## dannie01

No worry, they have varies sizes of thread stick to fit your amp from original M6 convert to M4, M8, M10, M12 and M6/¼"-20 UNC. There must have one fits your amp's need. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You just have to check the threads' size then place yourr and that's it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I use the M6 to M4 thread sticks for the WA5LE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> No worry, they have varies sizes of thread stick to fit your amp from original M6 convert to M4, M8, M10, M12 and M6/¼"-20 UNC. There must have one fits your amp's need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The conversion threads are included?  You are really an evil.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Reminds me not going shopping with you if I ever back in HK.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> After Silent One's thick and massive "chopping board" and the Atomic Audio Labs Mac mini platform with spikes for his system. I followed and bought a set "new shoes" for the WA5LE, the Viablue QTC Spikes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  i didn't know they have silver(color at least) feet.  last time i check they only have those musicman had with the rp010b.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i didn't know they have silver(color at least) feet.  last time i check they only have those musicman had with the rp010b.


 
   
  I checked that from their OFFICIAL WEBSITE, I originally looked for the HS Series becuase they seem good from the web but when I see these spikes putting in front of me, I know I will never pick the HS for my amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, welcome to join our family, remember to post some pics when your have the WA5 delivered.


----------



## jc9394

did you look at this before?


----------



## dannie01

Yes, but I want it firmly screwed into the amp instead of  just putting it over, I will not take any potential risk to my WA5LE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  OH, I will never dedicate my #1500 post to other thread.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yes, but I want it firmly screwed into the amp instead of  just putting it over, I will not take any potential risk to my WA5LE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good point, especially with toddles running around.  My wallet said, he hates me... we will see who wins...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The conversion threads are included?  You are really an evil.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, they sell separately, set of 4 like the spikes.
   
  You should have my mobile number, right.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Good point, especially with toddles running around.  My wallet said, he hates me... we will see who wins...


 
   
  I never won that battle.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I never won that battle.


 
   
  Same here but we will see this time around, another hobby is taking over the toy budget lately.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Same here but we will see this time around, another hobby is taking over the toy budget lately.


 
   
  That's the fact, indeed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> did you look at this before?


 
   
  These were my very first entry into footers. Bought them for the Woo and the music server. As dannie01 rightly points out, there's an issue with stability - sliding from the unit being bump. I cut small thin pieces of Rubber Maid mat to prevent my gear from sliding. But the downside is it has a dampening effect; will change sonics and not always in a positive manner.
   
  I think these will serve in a pinch. They're height adjustable and can be placed anywhere. But I think there are better options I'd rather have.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> These were my very first entry into footers. Bought them for the Woo and the music server. As dannie01 rightly points out, there's an issue with stability - sliding from the unit being bump. I cut small thin pieces of Rubber Maid mat to prevent my gear from sliding. But the downside is it has a dampening effect; will change sonics and not always in a positive manner.
> 
> I think these will serve in a pinch. They're height adjustable and can be placed anywhere. But I think there are better options I'd rather have.


 
   
  Not bad for my turntable since it use three feet and the back is in the center while my Marantz receiver has metal mesh that is half an inch lower than the wood case.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> These were my very first entry into footers. Bought them for the Woo and the music server. As dannie01 rightly points out, there's an issue with stability - sliding from the unit being bump. I cut small thin pieces of Rubber Maid mat to prevent my gear from sliding. But the downside is it has a dampening effect; will change sonics and not always in a positive manner.
> 
> I think these will serve in a pinch. They're height adjustable and can be placed anywhere. But I think there are better options I'd rather have.


 
   

   
  Yes that's the same issue that I have with these, they're slippery little buggers!
   
  I'll figure out something though. Probably adhesive-related once I figure out exactly where they will live


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Only moments after I had the Woo perfectly perched on my Tri-Absorbers, I went to plug the headphone jack in and... whoops! The amp started to slide but I caught it, due to the length of the chassis, the amp was suspended by my hand in the front and the remaining two footers in the rear (whew!).
   
   
  Follow up: Just a brief follow up to my evaluation of the Atomic Audio Labs Mac platform for the Woozies with Mac mini music servers. After further review, the component works as advertised.


----------



## grokit

I'm probably just going to use them to space my equalizer from the top of my speaker amp amp, which is near the floor anyways


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm probably just going to use them to space my equalizer from the top of my speaker amp amp, which is near the floor anyways


 
   
  Have you ever bumped into anyone up there that owns a Woo or is aware of WooAudio?


----------



## Silent One

Vinyl loving WooAudio amp owners take note. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 elusivedisc.com is offering the following:


----------



## 188479

Silent One, interesting you should post that.  I saw the same album in the email and am going to pull the trigger on it.  Great playing from a young man whose life was too short.  On another note, received word from Jack that my WA6SE will be delivered tomorrow...good times ahead!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Silent One, interesting you should post that.  I saw the same album in the email and am going to pull the trigger on it.  Great playing from a young man whose life was too short.  On another note, received word from Jack that my WA6SE will be delivered tomorrow...good times ahead!


 
   
  In time for the weekend... how'd you manage that?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very excited for you!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Have you ever bumped into anyone up there that owns a Woo or is aware of WooAudio?


 
   
  I wouldn't be surprised if I was the only one with a headphone amp in this town. I have a buddy with an HD650 but he plugs them into his mini-system. I gave him a clone of my ALAC HDD (off-site storage b/u), and tried to get him more into it. He flirted with the idea of getting an X-Can or M1 a couple of years ago, but ultimately it was a no-go. He like browsing online, knows about Woo, and like my amp, but he's more into video entertainment than audio.
   
  I am an island


----------



## Silent One

^





  WooAudio should be thrilled to be represented by you!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I never won that battle.


 
   
   
  i want to "help" too.  y'all use those socket cover?  something like this?


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I checked that from their OFFICIAL WEBSITE, I originally looked for the HS Series becuase they seem good from the web but when I see these spikes putting in front of me, I know I will never pick the HS for my amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  mine is finally here.  little less than 2 months from ordering it here with the local dealer.  they're great to deal with. minor mistake though, i wanted a black one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No, this is HUGE. Call your dealer - do it now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on bringing it home!


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> mine is finally here.  little less than 2 months from ordering it here with the local dealer.  they're great to deal with. minor mistake though, i wanted a black one.


 
   
  Congrats for the new amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It look great and well matched your Rudistor underneath. You will not regret about the silver color, I have owned a WA6SE in black and it's a dust magnet.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, you order the amp from DMA?
   
  EDIT. Look at those stock tubes in your WA5, you will have a long way to go and HUGE INVESTMENT for rolling those OLD LIGHT BULBS


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Congrats for the new amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hey, that is copy right.  You have to pay me to use it...  I can see my toy budget getting bigger...


----------



## keph

At the Hospital now Fever 39.5C and somehow My 596 is OTW to me from Belgium yummy...i need the 596 to make me better...Oh btw i just ordered some Ebony Spikes for my 6SE and DAC...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hey, that is copy right.  You have to pay me to use it...  I can see my toy budget getting bigger...


 
   
  Forgive me to quote your term my friend. I'll buy you dinner when you back to HK for the copy right.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> At the Hospital now Fever 39.5C and somehow My 596 is OTW to me from Belgium yummy...i need the 596 to make me better...Oh btw i just ordered some Ebony Spikes for my 6SE and DAC...


 
   
  Take care keph. Your fever must be infected by the toy fitted with some "hot light bulbs". Hehe, no copy right this time.


----------



## jc9394

I will hold you to that... we are planning a business trip to Osaka and I may take a weekend trip to HK.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You can freely use "Old Light Bulbs" and "Expensive Old Light Bulbs" when ever you feel like to.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> I will hold you to that... we are planning a business trip to Osaka and I may take a weekend trip to HK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


   
  Do let me know and see if we have a chance to meet.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looking forward to hearing that SeeHear gets taken care of.


 
   
  Looks like there is a happy ending after all!  I dropped the WA2 off with Jack today at the Queens factory  - all very secret agent like: I was allowed only as far as the front door
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - and instructed to wait for a phone call.  About 20 minutes later he called and told me they could replicate the problem and they would fix it.  Then another call and they experienced the oscillation too!
   
  I couldn't wait any longer and headed back to the city.  Then as my last meeting ended I got a text from Jack telling me it's ready for me to pick up from Brooklyn tonight!
   
  Three boroughs in one day - doesn't get more cloak and dagger than this!
   
  I'll post the climax this evening after I make it back from Brooklyn.  Keep your fingers crossed.
   
  SeeHear


----------



## fenom60

Is it normal to get goosebumps when listening to music with Woo amps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 like the good kind
   
  Because I am getting goosebumps with my WA22 - TS 6AS7G, RCA 6F8G, EML 5U4G --> HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  listening to Starcey Kent - "What the World Need Now is Love" = WOW 
   
  The RCA 6F8G is so warm and awesome for female voices, i like the RCA very much. National Union VT99 6F8G is excellent too as it sounds more "realistic"


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> Is it normal to get goosebumps when listening to music with Woo amps?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just wait til you get a hold of GEC 6AS7G and TS BGRP...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Brooklyn in the house - lived in Brownsville for a few months! Thanks for sharing that very interesting experience with us. I'd love to have been with you!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Tell him, JC. With the right Glass and Ella in her prime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, he might even stop posting for a month!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tell him, JC. With the right Glass and Ella in her prime
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ella, Diana, Patricia, Sammi, Karen, and Kelly all made me stop posting for a long while before.  I was disappear from the face of the earth for a long while last year.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just wait til you get a hold of GEC 6AS7G and TS BGRP...


 
   
  That's the great combo for the WA22, indeed.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ella, Diana, Patricia, Sammi, Karen, and Kelly all made me stop posting for a long while before.  I was disappear from the face of the earth for a long while last year.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's the great combo for the WA22, indeed.


 
   
  Of course, it the to use EML 5U4G or 596...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh, an internal surgery is also recommended.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ella, Diana, Patricia, Sammi, Karen, and Kelly all made me stop posting for a long while before.  I was disappear from the face of the earth for a long while last year.


 
   
   
  Oh, totally forget about Norah...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  With Astrud playing on your hot-rodded WA22, French bubbly at the ready, I'd be able to knock you over with a feather!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No, this is HUGE. Call your dealer - do it now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  nah, too much hustle to just for the look.  besides, silver seems pretty good and the girlfriend told me she likes silver better


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> nah, too much hustle to just for the look.  besides, silver seems pretty good and *the girlfriend told me she likes silver better*


 
   
  Smart man and she is a keeper...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 Solved.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Congrats for the new amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  i ordered it from aura.  sister company with dma i think. 
   
   
  yea stock tubes so far.  i did get myself an extra full sets of tubes.  nothing fancy but i just want to have an extra set just in case.  plus they were on sale last month from wi wi   still i would switch them just yet.  wa5 sound so good just with the stock tubes.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Smart man and she is a keeper...


 

 oh yea she is a keeper no doubt. 
   
   
  and she listen to the woo last night for an hour too


----------



## fenom60

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Of course, it the to use EML 5U4G or 596...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can't wait till I get my 596 adapter from Woo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  btw wiwitubes.com has the Mullard ECC32 matched pair instock and its $850 O_o but they recommend to try the Jadis ECC32 which the owner there worked with Full Music owner and tuned it to sound just like the Mullard ECC32. Can anyone with a pair of Mullard ECC32 willing to try the Jadis ECC32 for comparison ??


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will hold you to that... we are planning a business trip to Osaka and I may take a weekend trip to HK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  can you make it around mid august?  the hk hifi show is starting on the 10th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  http://www.audiotechnique.com/av_show/hifi_show.htm


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> can you make it around mid august?  the hk hifi show is starting on the 10th
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Unfortunately if we are able to go, it will be in late Sept or early Oct time.  Perfect time for those yummy crabs...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> Can't wait till I get my 596 adapter from Woo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  For me, I don't think the ECC32 is worth that much over the TS BGRP.  If the price is around $500/pair, I will give it a try.  I have issues/can't justify tubes over $500.  That is one of the reason I still have not upgrade to WA5 yet.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Smart man and she is a keeper...


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Solved.


 
   
  Can't agree more.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Unfortunately if we are able to go, it will be in late Sept or early Oct time.  Perfect time for those yummy crabs...


 
   
  I'm in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For me, I don't think the ECC32 is worth that much over the TS BGRP.  If the price is around $500/pair, I will give it a try.  I have issues/can't justify tubes over $500.  That is one of the reason I still have not upgrade to WA5 yet.


 
   
  Absolutely, the price raise sky high this day and I paid about $500 plus shipping for my pair about 1 and a half year ago. You are right in the tube issue, I am too rush to make the decision without count both future cost and hidden cost on the WA5LE.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i ordered it from aura.  sister company with dma i think.
> 
> 
> yea stock tubes so far.  i did get myself an extra full sets of tubes.  nothing fancy but i just want to have an extra set just in case.  plus they were on sale last month from wi wi   still i would switch them just yet.  wa5 sound so good just with the stock tubes.


 
   
  Try some fancy one and you'll find it will sounds much better than expected.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Unfortunately if we are able to go, it will be in late Sept or early Oct time.  Perfect time for those yummy crabs...


 
   
   
  yea it's the time of the year for those hairy crabs. 
   
  and if you need any help on getting audio stuff, i can help.  i'm sure Dan can too


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Try some fancy one and you'll find it will sounds much better than expected.


 
   
   
  it's already very good.  with a simple rca cable(zu oxyfuel) and a very bad a power cord that i hate very much(cardas cross)


----------



## Ultrainferno

Keph, I'm back home. Here are your 596 tubes, they're ready to go!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For me, I don't think the ECC32 is worth that much over the TS BGRP.  If the price is around $500/pair, I will give it a try.  I have issues/can't justify tubes over $500.  That is one of the reason I still have not upgrade to WA5 yet.


 
   
  John, you're right about the difficulty in finding a logical justification for this. My tube collection is worth many times what the WA22 and HD800 cost (also indefensible but purchased with disposable income so, guilt free). I have two pairs each of the ECC32 and the TS BGRP. Can't justify it, but it makes me happy when I'm listening.
   
  Lately, I have been using TS 7236, Mullard ECC32 and Mullard GZ33 in my WA22.


----------



## jc9394

John, I do have a fairly good toy budget every year but it still bugs me the tube cost over $700. You should really try the 596, it is like Mullard GZ34 metal base with wider soundstage. It pair very well with GEC 6AS7G and TS BGRP, especially with HD800. My source is too hot to use TS 7236 and TS 5998 with HD800 but very well with LCD-2.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i ordered it from aura.  sister company with dma i think.
> 
> 
> yea stock tubes so far.  i did get myself an extra full sets of tubes.  nothing fancy but i just want to have an extra set just in case.  plus they were on sale last month from wi wi   still i would switch them just yet.  wa5 sound so good just with the stock tubes.


 
  IMO if you want to upgrade tube go with a pair of 596, a pair of 6F8G (any brand) BG/RP and a nice pair of 300B. I am running right now EML 300B Mesh, Emerson (TungSol) 6F8G BG/RP and 596 and really love the sound.


----------



## 188479

> Can't wait till I get my 596 adapter from Woo


 
   
  X2 - Jack said mine would ship at the end of the month!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Keph, I'm back home. Here are your 596 tubes, they're ready to go!


 
   
  Simply beautiful...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Am I the only one that has a black WA22 where dust isn't an issue? I've barely wiped it once or twice casually for he several months I've had it. 

Music man. You really have me wanting to try another pair ofor two of 6F8G. Is there an RCA equivalent to he VT231 smoke glass 6SN7?


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Brooklyn in the house - lived in Brownsville for a few months! Thanks for sharing that very interesting experience with us. I'd love to have been with you!


 

  Alright... here's the deal:
   
  First - Jack gave me all new tubes.  You know I know nothing about which tube is which but he says these are the best ones:
  All I know is they sound really good!  So far, so good.
   
  Here is a picture of one of the pair that is obviously different from the first set:
  Again, I don't know what the significance of this one as opposed to the first set is.
   
  Here is the amp with the new tubes installed.  Notice the biggest tube on the right side looks slightly skewed; that's not a lens error - it isn't straight.

   
  Here is the first lighting.
 
 
   
  First listening impressions:
   
  Much cleaner, less veiled sound.  There is more air and space between instruments and vocalists.  Now instead of "drums," I can almost see a 17 year old Tony Williams and his drum kit stage left on the eponymous track from Seven Steps to Heaven.
   
  On Alicia Keys' If I Ain't Got You, the male backup singer's voice is clearly heard, low in the mix as intended in the last choruses.  Alicia's emotion and tone is very apparent - it sounds like the mic is practically in her mouth.  Which, if I recall, is how she sings.
   
  When Prince starts singing to himself from stage right on Ripopgodazippa it sounds appropriately ephemeral and layered and distinct from his workout partner who is precisely placed between him and his back up selves.  Though the layers of this carefully crafted song are clear upon analysis, they coalesce into a coherent, entirely enjoyable, whole when listening for pleasure.
  On the 24/88.2 reissue of Beggars Banquet, Sympathy for the Devil sounds like an entirely new recording, and the Woo is an excellent window into the studio.  If you are a Stones fan, or just an music/audio-phile, you need to hear this.  I've been listening to this album since the late 70's - I didn't know all this music was there until I got this high-rez reissue.  Again, the Woo lets you hear all of it!  You can almost see the sliders going up and down bringing in the drums and bongos, Mick's "yow", then the shakers and the and other vocalisations.  But when Mick starts the main vocal with the piano, it fills the space and you're in the song!  Even as the mix fills, it never becomes congested.  The guitar, Mick's vocal, the bass all sound as they must have in the studio. Minus the cigarettes and whatever else, of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Of course, nothing is perfect and this is no exception.  It seems part of the price to get the dead silent background was gain. 
   
  There isn't much. 
   
  I don't know if this is a function of the tube combination or something else, but with both headphones and the power amp I get to twist my wrist much farther than I'm accustomed.  I actually pegged the volume knob listening to Joe Henderson's Big Band play Shade of Jade.  It sounded really good, but I couldn't get "there" because I ran out of volume!  That is a first for me.  I have run out of amplifier many times, but never pre-amp gain.
   
  So, you might think all is good in Harlem, and you'd be almost right.  This (except the lack of gain) is what I expected the amp to sound like when I made the purchase decision.  Since then, I had a ($200) modification made.  I had a second set of pre-out jacks added when a switch to turn off the pre-outs was installed.  That part is not operational.  Apparently the noise issues and oscillations were traced to these modifications, and fixed.  Great, I thought.  Except "fixed" means the switch has been disabled and the second pre-out is still not aligned with the original.  I don't really care about the second pre-out, it is just a nice-to-have that I thought was a simple add while having the switch installed.  Oh well, we'll see what happens.  The pre-out is not what I was paying for, it's the switch that I need.
   
  Hope I didn't bore you with this long winded report, but I felt after all my bitching, it would be nice to hear some good things.
   
  Well, now it's off to enjoy Father's Day weekend at the beach. It's me and my SR71B for the weekend.
   
  Enjoy the music!
  (Yeah, I know that's not original, but I mean it!)


----------



## Sid-Fi

Seehear,

Congrats on getting your WA2 back, and on having it be working out so well. Glad to hear it! 

One of the reasons your volume has to go so high is the power tube in your picture is 6080, which has significantly less power than 7236 tubes, although they should still sound good. I have 7236 Sylvania old stock tubes and my dial with loud volume never goes above 11 o clock on the dial, and that's on low gain setting on my WA22. 

Enjoy!


----------



## carlchip78

I've been using a Mullard GZ32 with some 6SN7's in my WA6 for a few months now. I've always been very happy with the sound from all my headphones with this combo. Although my DT880's definitely enjoy the extra juice that the 6GL7's bring. Anyway, the GZ32 is the first rectifier that i rolled and i was considering trying a 5AR4/GZ34 for something different. Metal base is not in the price range atm. Apparently Jack has some Haltron 5AR4 tubes in stock. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Silent One

SeeHear > Your First Listening Impressions sounded right yummy! Makes me wanna do something special inside the room tonight. Currently, streaming the sultry and seductive Sarah Vaughn from Paris radio (M2 Radio, France) while doing house chores. Ah, but deep into the night, just past a frightened Cinderella looking at the clock, we're gonna sit in 'till sunrise playing only the best!
   
  The hi-rez version of "Sympathy For The Devil" makes a difference over what I had thought I was enjoying years prior. 
   
"_Minus the cigarettes and whatever else, of course_ 





"
   





 I don't think I wanna know...
   
  Sid-Fi rightfully pointed out your power tube options so, looks like good times ahead for you!


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Seehear,
> Congrats on getting your WA2 back, and on having it be working out so well. Glad to hear it!
> One of the reasons your volume has to go so high is the power tube in your picture is 6080, which has significantly less power than 7236 tubes, although they should still sound good. I have 7236 Sylvania old stock tubes and my dial with loud volume never goes above 11 o clock on the dial, and that's on low gain setting on my WA22.
> Enjoy!


 

 Thanks, Sid.  I was wondering what the differences are.  That may explain the decreased dynamics, too?  I have a lot to learn about tube rolling - gonna be fun.  What would (any or all) of you recommend as a power tube trying to get some of the bass extension and slam back as well as over all volume up?


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> SeeHear > Your First Listening Impressions sounded right yummy! Makes me wanna do something special inside the room tonight. Currently, streaming the sultry and seductive Sarah Vaughn from Paris radio (M2 Radio, France) while doing house chores. Ah, but deep into the night, just passed a frightened Cinderella looking at the clock, we're gonna sit in 'till sunrise playing only the best!
> 
> The hi-rez version of "Sympathy For The Devil" makes a difference over what I had thought I was enjoying years prior.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

I think the dynamics can definitely be affected by limited power, especially if your already high up on the volume dial. I think the Sylvania old stock 7236 are widely regarded as the best bang for the buck power tube. Many head-fi'ers have expressed this opinion to me. 

Also, Woo Audio lists them on the WA2 and WA22 product pages as the recommended power tube upgrade along with a description that says "One of the best power tubes available for this amp...vastly improves dynamics and soundstage."

There are a few more expensive and exotic choices that are regarded to be better like Tung Sol 5998, but at significantly higher costs. 



seehear said:


> Thanks, Sid.  I was wondering what the differences are.  That may explain the decreased dynamics, too?  I have a lot to learn about tube rolling - gonna be fun.  What would (any or all) of you recommend as a power tube trying to get some of the bass extension and slam back as well as over all volume up?


----------



## Redcarmoose

> Minus the cigarettes and whatever else, of course


 

   
   
   
  Not all else................................................


----------



## Zombie_X

Guys,
   
  Not to solicit but if anyone wants my WA3 I have it up for sale. Tosn of tubes included as well. All at a great price!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Guys,
> 
> Not to solicit but if anyone wants my WA3 I have it up for sale. Tosn of tubes included as well. All at a great price!


 
  I was going to sell mine too until I heard it with the HD650s.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Am I the only one that has a black WA22 where dust isn't an issue? I've barely wiped it once or twice casually for he several months I've had it.
> Music man. You really have me wanting to try another pair ofor two of 6F8G. Is there an RCA equivalent to he VT231 smoke glass 6SN7?


 
   
  Yes, I have 2 pairs of RCA VT-99 Gray Glass and flat plates. They sound great too.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Keph, I'm back home. Here are your 596 tubes, they're ready to go!


 
   
  Yessss!!!! finally it will be by my side...!!!! thx Ultra..


----------



## Idandelions

Firstly, left me apologize for a lengthy first post.
   
  I have a question about a mains hum on a WA22. I'm new to WA22 ownership and this is my first valve amp so I'm not sure what to expect. For all I know all amps might be the same. I'm not the first owner of this amp and it's just over a year old. I have a mains hum that is independent of volume, which is noticeable when the music is quiet and very noticeable between tracks (amp sounds great up to that point!)
   
  The facts:

 Amp running is on 240v 50Hz mains in the UK.
 I have tried different power sockets, a different location, running without an earth, running through a UPS.
 Hum is not affected by volume.
 Hum doesn't seem to be affected much by using different valves and swapping valves left to right (see list below).
 Hum still exists when there is no source connected (just power lead and the headphones).
 Hum is louder when on Hi impedance setting.
 During the start-up process, when the slow start protection circuit switches to full power the hum increases.
 The capacitors look OK, saying that I'm no expert, but don't seem to be bulging.
 The power lead is nothing special but I can't see that making any difference.
   
  I have spoken to Jack @ Woo and he has kindly offered to have a look at the amp under warranty, with me paying for shipping. The bad news is shipping to and from the US is going to cost around £200 ($315). I don't want to go down that route if there's nothing wrong or there is something I can do here, so trying to exhaust all possibilities before resorting to sending back.
   
  Any help or suggestions welcomed.
   
  Thanks,
  Neil.
   
Current Tubes:
Power:

 GEC 6080
 Sovtek 6AS7G
 Driver:

 Zalytron 6SN7GTB
 RCA VT231 Smoke Glass
 Rectifier:

 EML 5U4GM Mesh Plate
 Electron Tube 274B


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Not all else................................................


 
   
  +1


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> redcarmoose said:
> 
> 
> > Not all else................................................
> ...


 
   
  + 2  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Ncice capture Redcarmoose.


----------



## fenom60

Quote: 





idandelions said:


> Firstly, left me apologize for a lengthy first post.
> 
> I have a question about a mains hum on a WA22. I'm new to WA22 ownership and this is my first valve amp so I'm not sure what to expect. For all I know all amps might be the same. I'm not the first owner of this amp and it's just over a year old. I have a mains hum that is independent of volume, which is noticeable when the music is quiet and very noticeable between tracks (amp sounds great up to that point!)
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had the exact same problem and same symptoms when I received my WA22. It was humming even without the power cord plugged in and no source plugged in, with just only headphone. I was trying to solve it for a week and came to the conclusion that the Center transformer on the WA22 for some reason is making up noise from my source. When i first got it I placed my WA22 on top of my DAC and it hummed then i placed them apart, to put it within a few inches of eachother, it still hummed but less. So then i unplugged everything and realized it was still humming without anything plugged in other than my HD800 whenever i turned on my DAC, so i tried to move the WA22 around and noticed whenever the center transformer is within 5 inches to the DAC it will pickup this humming noise. 
   
  So try to move the WA22 at least 1 feet away from any electronic with a transformer. Hope that helps


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice answer fenom60. I hope that is the case and helps.

I was getting ready to ask about your avatar. I thought it was wild there were so many nice looking guitars in the row, but it didn't look to be a music store. Then I clicked on your profile. Only your monitor and its size gave away that they were small little desktop models. That was trippy lol.


----------



## Sid-Fi

My wife just ordered me the Audiophilleo PurePower upgrade for my Audiophilleo 2. Should be sweet. I'm looking forward to checking it out. The only problem now is that I'll be going back to straight USB for the couple of weeks or so it will take them to mod my AP2 to be compatible with the PurePower power supply.

Here is a link if anyone is curious to check it out.
http://www.audiophilleo.com/purepower.aspx


----------



## Silent One

Sid-Fi, seems your wife is a wise shopper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Realizes the 2-for-1 dividend payout. Congrats!


----------



## Idandelions

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> I had the exact same problem and same symptoms when I received my WA22. It was humming even without the power cord plugged in and no source plugged in, with just only headphone. I was trying to solve it for a week and came to the conclusion that the Center transformer on the WA22 for some reason is making up noise from my source. When i first got it I placed my WA22 on top of my DAC and it hummed then i placed them apart, to put it within a few inches of eachother, it still hummed but less. So then i unplugged everything and realized it was still humming without anything plugged in other than my HD800 whenever i turned on my DAC, so i tried to move the WA22 around and noticed whenever the center transformer is within 5 inches to the DAC it will pickup this humming noise.
> 
> So try to move the WA22 at least 1 feet away from any electronic with a transformer. Hope that helps


 
   
  Hi fenom60, I've looked at interference from other devices. I have even had the amp in a room on a wooden table, with no other equipment present other than the headphones and power lead, but the hum was still there  
   
  This probably doesn't help, but, as soon as I switch off the amp the hum stops instantly whereas the music continues until the capacitors are drained and/or the valves cool down.


----------



## fenom60

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Nice answer fenom60. I hope that is the case and helps.
> I was getting ready to ask about your avatar. I thought it was wild there were so many nice looking guitars in the row, but it didn't look to be a music store. Then I clicked on your profile. Only your monitor and its size gave away that they were small little desktop models. That was trippy lol.


 
   
  Haha the little guitars are collectible mini versions of the guitars of "hide"-( he day) from a legendary japanese rock band X- Japan. =D I used to own a real size of the yellow hearts guitar.


----------



## fenom60

Quote: 





idandelions said:


> Hi fenom60, I've looked at interference from other devices. I have even had the amp in a room on a wooden table, with no other equipment present other than the headphones and power lead, but the hum was still there
> 
> This probably doesn't help, but, as soon as I switch off the amp the hum stops instantly whereas the music continues until the capacitors are drained and/or the valves cool down.


 
   
  Hmm if it only hums when you turn on the WA22 then it might be your power tubes starting to go bad. My 7236 with probably 500 hours is humming much more noticeably than my new 6AS7G that i just started using.


----------



## hodgjy

The 7236 also has more gain than the 6AS7G, so that could possibly be part of it.
  Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> Hmm if it only hums when you turn on the WA22 then it might be your power tubes starting to go bad. My 7236 with probably 500 hours is humming much more noticeably than my new 6AS7G that i just started using.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> IMO if you want to upgrade tube go with a pair of 596, a pair of 6F8G (any brand) BG/RP and a nice pair of 300B. I am running right now EML 300B Mesh, Emerson (TungSol) 6F8G BG/RP and 596 and really love the sound.


 

 thanks for the tip. 
   
  seems like i'm following you though...first rp010 and now wa5.  now i'm thinking re-cabling my t1


----------



## fhuang

1t1 is incredible with wa5.  t5p is also amazing.  i prefer something else for hd800 and signature pro though.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> 1t1 is incredible with wa5.  t5p is also amazing.  i prefer something else for hd800 and signature pro though.


 

 interesting, what you don't like on hd800 with wa5?


----------



## dannie01

WOW jc, the Marantz 2265B is matched well with the LCD-2, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's beautiful.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> WOW jc, the Marantz 2265B is matched well with the LCD-2,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  And it sound very well too, but I slightly prefer it with HD800.  Very forgiving too, sounds very very good out of CD player and iPhone.  I do prefer it with this entry table.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> interesting, what you don't like on hd800 with wa5?


 
   
  I have both the HD800 and T1. Both are recabled wit the Zeus cable and I personally like the HD800 better.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have both the HD800 and T1. Both are recabled wit the Zeus cable and I personally like the HD800 better.


 
   
  X2, but with my WA22.  I wish I did not sold the T1.


----------



## keph

Guess what is inside???


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Guess what is inside???


 
   
  I know it's "Woo" related, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'm going to need a hint... just one!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know it's "Woo" related,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha..
   
  Hint emmm IT HAS HORNS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let's see... WooAudio amp... horns... based on all the chat of late, my guess would be the United Electronics USAF-596. But they're extinct, so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 YOU GOT ME! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm at a loss.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> interesting, what you don't like on hd800 with wa5?


 
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have both the HD800 and T1. Both are recabled wit the Zeus cable and I personally like the HD800 better.


 
   
   
   
  when with wa5, i don't get the shape image/picture like with a ss amp.  it just feels not so clear. of course remember the amp is still under 50 hours so not enough burn-in(if you believe in burn-in) and i'm still with the stock tubes.  the amp does sooth the headphones a little so.  i don't know, more to come
   
   
  by the way, ed10 does sound pretty decent with wa5.  i'm now thinking getting an ed10....maybe, only maybe...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> when with wa5, i don't get the shape image/picture like with a ss amp.  it just feels not so clear. of course remember the amp is still under 50 hours so not enough burn-in(if you believe in burn-in) and i'm still with the stock tubes.  the amp does sooth the headphones a little so.  i don't know, more to come
> 
> 
> by the way, ed10 does sound pretty decent with wa5.  i'm now thinking getting an ed10....maybe, only maybe...


 

 Change the Tubes Please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...i was pretty impressed with ED10 when i tried it with a Burson amp..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Let's see... WooAudio amp... horns... based on all the chat of late, my guess would be the United Electronics USAF-596. But they're extinct, so...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha You are Right SIR..!! its an USAF-596 OTW to my doorsteps...hehe


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> when with wa5, i don't get the shape image/picture like with a ss amp.  it just feels not so clear. of course remember the amp is still under 50 hours so not enough burn-in(if you believe in burn-in) and i'm still with the stock tubes.  the amp does sooth the headphones a little so.  i don't know, more to come
> 
> 
> by the way, ed10 does sound pretty decent with wa5.  i'm now thinking getting an ed10....maybe, only maybe...


 
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> Change the Tubes Please
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  X2, you will notice a big difference with stock and upgraded tubes.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, you will notice a big difference with stock and upgraded tubes.


 
   
  X3 Can't agree more.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> X3 Can't agree more.


 
   
   
  i actually have a full sets of extra tubes even before the delivery but i won't use them, just yet


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i actually have a full sets of extra tubes even before the delivery but i won't use them, just yet


 
   
  That's great, mind to share what you got for your WA5? Burn-in with stock those tubes then swap something better.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's great, mind to share what you got for your WA5? Burn-in with stock those tubes then swap something better.


 
   
  Let me guess?  Original NOS WE300B, EML 5U4G, and TS 6SN7 BGRP...


----------



## jc9394

Woah, check this out.  Royal Princess...


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let me guess?  Original NOS WE300B, EML 5U4G, and TS 6SN7 BGRP...


 

 yea next one
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  next life time


----------



## dannie01

Sorry, double post.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Let me guess? Original NOS WE300B, EML 5U4G, and TS 6SN7 BGRP...


   
   
  Very soon.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's great, mind to share what you got for your WA5? Burn-in with stock those tubes then swap something better.


 
   
   
  some full music 300b, sylvania 5u4gb and 6sn7gta


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> some full music 300b, sylvania 5u4gb and 6sn7gta


----------



## dannie01

Really Premium 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Price:*
 $1200 per premium matched pair with one year warranty.

*Shipping:*
 Postal international express with insurance: $50 for the first pair (2 units), $12 for each additional pair.
 Postal US express with insurance: $40 for the first pair, $8 for each additional pair.
 TNT domestic overnight express with insurance: $40 for the first pair, $5 for each additional pair.
 Postal domestic priority mail/FedEx ground with insurance: $20 for the first pair, $6 for each additional pair.
   
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woah, check this out.  Royal Princess...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Really Premium
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Imo a Full Music 300B with a $1000 BOX..


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> Imo a Full Music 300B with a $1000 BOX..


 
   
  No, you must be kidding, I don't believe that, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But they look almost identical indeed.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Really Premium
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Do you think they are at the level or better then the EAT 300B tubes or EML 300B Mesh?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





keph said:


> Imo a Full Music 300B with a $1000 BOX..


 
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Do you think they are at the level or better then the EAT 300B tubes or EML 300B Mesh?


 
   
  They do looks like EAT more than Full Music.
   
  Danny, can you take a pics of your EAT?


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Do you think they are at the level or better then the EAT 300B tubes or EML 300B Mesh


 
    
  You send me the Royal Princess and EML 300B Mesh, I'll let you know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote:


jc9394 said:


> They do looks like EAT more than Full Music.
> 
> Danny, can you take a pics of your EAT?


 
   
  Yes Sir. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I don't think they look alike at all, neither the Royal Princess nor Full Music..


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yes Sir.


 
   
  Looks different, I thought they are re-branded EAT.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





keph said:


> Imo a Full Music 300B with a $1000 BOX..


 
  very beautiful box though


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice tubes


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hey btw guys, anyone heard the HE-500s through the WA6-SE yet?
   
  i've been considering selling my RS1i and pro 900 for a pair
   
  (LCD-2 > rs1i for rock due to cleaner sound and bass slam, and pro 900 has alot of bass bass but too muddy/bright compared to D7000)
   
  i think they would complement my LCD-2/HD-800/T1 well


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hey btw guys, anyone heard the HE-500s through the WA6-SE yet?
> 
> i've been considering selling my RS1i and pro 900 for a pair
> 
> ...


 
   
  My HE-500 is being amp-ed by the WA6SE and the amp does a really good job..for driving the HE-500 i prefer the 6FD7 tubes...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hey btw guys, anyone heard the HE-500s through the WA6-SE yet?
> 
> i've been considering selling my RS1i and pro 900 for a pair
> 
> ...


 
  I had the HE500s with the SE.. while it gives it tons of power - I wasn't impressed with the HE500s. Don't know if it was the pairing or just the headphones but I decided to part ways with the phones. Your T1s are a step up in every way IMO.
   
  Also I don't know if they updated that awful cable mine shipped with (this was back in February), but there were a notable number of breakage cases with the silver cable and after seeing/experiencing it I can see why. The HE500 thread has more info.


----------



## stevefox

I have a WA6-SE with the Sophia 274B.  Senn HD-650, AKG-K701, and a pair of 1974 Superex Pro-6D, each of which cost more than all the ikea furniture in my room combined.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks guys for your opinions. still considering the HE-500 or some other headphone within that range.
   
   
  my RS1i with buttons and my Pro 900 are now up for sale.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks guys for your opinions. still considering the HE-500 or some other headphone within that range.
> 
> 
> my RS1i with buttons and my Pro 900 are now up for sale.


 
   
  Not sure you want to get the HE-500 when you have the LCD-2 already, it did not impress me at all when I compared to LCD-2.  If you are considering HE-6, that will be different.  I was really impress when I borrow one a month ago when it was powered by the speaker tap of my Marantz receiver, not so good with WA22 or beta22 headphone out.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what was the sound like?
   
  i've heard everything about the HE-500. from fuller bass and mids than the HD 800 with less detail to some people just saying they're  thin and distant. some1 told me bass was crazy but not LCD-2 like, someone said bassless and weak. so im really confused lol
   
   
  as of right now my top headphone is the T1 followed closely by the mighty LCD-2 and the HD 800 being a fun listen too depending on the music.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what was the sound like?
> 
> i've heard everything about the HE-500. from fuller bass and mids than the HD 800 with less detail to some people just saying they're  thin and distant. some1 told me bass was crazy but not LCD-2 like, someone said bassless and weak. so im really confused lol
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't waste your money on any more headphone, you have the finest headphones already.  I'm kicking myself selling the T1. 
   
  The HE-500's bass is kind of loose compare to LCD-2, and mid especially female vocal is thin and distant compare to LCD-2 and HD800.  Well, if you don't have the T1, LCD-2, and HD800 to compare to, I will recommend it.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Don't waste your money on any more headphone, you have the finest headphones already.  I'm kicking myself selling the T1.
> 
> The HE-500's bass is kind of loose compare to LCD-2, and mid especially female vocal is thin and distant compare to LCD-2 and HD800.  Well, if you don't have the T1, LCD-2, and HD800 to compare to, I will recommend it.


 
  +1.. similar experience with the HE500s sound. If you enjoy the LCD2/T1, I'd imagine you'd like the TH900s.. save your money from the HE500 purchase and aim for the TH900, IMO


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Not sure you want to get the HE-500 when you have the LCD-2 already, it did not impress me at all when I compared to LCD-2.  If you are considering HE-6, that will be different.  I was really impress when I borrow one a month ago when it was powered by the speaker tap of my Marantz receiver, not so good with WA22 or beta22 headphone out.


 
   
  I agree. I was able to compare a pair of HE-500 to my HE-6 both using the Dark Star and the HE-6 clearly blew the HE-500 away in everything.


----------



## Xcalibur255

The impressions on the HE-500 seem a bit more negative here than in the phones' impression thread it seems.  I was under the impression they were considered to be in the same league as the LCD-2, just with some differences in presentation and natural strengths.
   
  Their lower price vs. the LCD-2 has landed them on my consideration list, but every time I think I might be sold I run into a bunch of people who don't care for them and I begin to wonder again.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> The impressions on the HE-500 seem a bit more negative here than in the phones' impression thread it seems.  I was under the impression they were considered to be in the same league as the LCD-2, just with some differences in presentation and natural strengths.
> 
> Their lower price vs. the LCD-2 has landed them on my consideration list, but every time I think I might be sold I run into a bunch of people who don't care for them and I begin to wonder again.


 
   
  I actually find them to compliment very well and I end up using the HE-500 far more then the LCD-2, except when I'm in the mood for the better guitar work.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I actually find them to compliment very well and I end up using the HE-500 far more then the LCD-2, except when I'm in the mood for the better guitar work.


 
   
  Other than the matter of driving by a proper amp to utilize each phone's potential, personal preference is also key factor to judge how it sound good (compliment) or bad (negative feedback) to different people.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I actually find them to compliment very well and I end up using the HE-500 far more then the LCD-2, except when I'm in the mood for the better guitar work.


 
   
  the LCD-2 does make guitars sound really good, and so do my T1, thats why the grado shall be no more (at least until i can buy the ps1000) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  so what are your impressions of the HE-500?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I actually find them to compliment very well and I end up using the HE-500 far more then the LCD-2, except when I'm in the mood for the better guitar work.


 
  They have my eye because of their reputation for putting more space between notes than the LCD-2.  Coming from the AKG K701 such as I am I figure the dense imaging of an ortho might be a bit of a shell shock at first so I was looking to find a middle ground.


----------



## john57

When I tried the  LCD-2 last year at the RMAF I feel that they were a bit too dense and not enough clarity for the music I listen to. This year I will listen to the HE-500 more in depth but I feel that the HE-500 is more toward what I wanted to hear.


----------



## dminches

Which amp did you hear them with?


----------



## john57

It was a amp on the BA table. I head latter that the BA table may  some issues with their sources connections. There were many people wanted to try the LCD-2 and the version 2 which many people were interested. I just never heard the clarity and transparency that people were clamoring about. It was the Byers T70 that impress me the most at the show.
  I also heard the Dynamic HE-400 a dynamic type and was not impress with it. The biggest surprise was the Stax since I had three pairs of Stax in the past and still have the SR-5 gold in good working condition. While the Stax is my "gold standard" in headphones the SQ differences are much smaller than it used to be with better quality headphones on the market.


----------



## ramarge3653

[size=medium]Hi,[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I'm looking for some recommendations for tube rolling my WA6E.  I listen primarily to rock, metal, punk, and some classical and I'm just curious on some rectifier tubes that will help compliment my preferred genre of music.  I'm currently using the Sofia Princess as my rectifier tube and I do like it, but I'm just curious what else is out there and possibly gain from some other users.[/size]
   
   
  [size=medium]A little more information about my setup.  I use a VPI turntable as my source with a dynavector 17D3 cartridge, and an Aesthetix Rhea phono stage which has a total of 10 telefunken tubes (5 for each channel) which connects directly into my WA6SE.  My headphones are a pair of Grado PS 1000s.  The sound is really great and I can listen to either my headphone or speaker setup for hours on end, but I'm just posting out of curiosity for a new rectifier tube.[/size]
   
   
  [size=medium]I was considering the EML 274b, but I've read reviews that it's not the best for rock genre.......   Any advice from personal experience is greatly appreciated.[/size]
   
   
  [size=medium]Regards.[/size]


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





ramarge3653 said:


> [size=medium]Hi,[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]I'm looking for some recommendations for tube rolling my WA6E.  I listen primarily to rock, metal, punk, and some classical and I'm just curious on some rectifier tubes that will help compliment my preferred genre of music.  I'm currently using the Sofia Princess as my rectifier tube and I do like it, but I'm just curious what else is out there and possibly gain from some other users.[/size]
> 
> ...


 
   
  I would skip the EML, for rock the Sophia is one of the best.. Another tube thats been popular on this thread is the USAF596. It's a good balance between the Sophia's bass and the EML midrange and soundstage. But the Sophia is really a fantastic rectifier to the WA6SE, any changes will be subtle (IMO) your driver tubes on the other hand can make quite the difference. If you're looking for more bass try the 6FD7s, they pack a punch.


----------



## ramarge3653

Thanks for the reply.  I am looking for just a little bit more bass, with that said could you recommend some of the better brands for the 6FD7 tubes?  Currently I'm using 6GL7 with a 6DE7 adapter.


----------



## jc9394

For rock, try Mullard GZ34 metal base, better bass and dynamic but you will loose the wider soundstage.


----------



## ramarge3653

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For rock, try Mullard GZ34 metal base, better bass and dynamic but you will loose the wider soundstage.


 
  Thanks for the info!!!


----------



## ramarge3653

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For rock, try Mullard GZ34 metal base, better bass and dynamic but you will loose the wider soundstage


 
  Do you know a trusted online shop that sells both the Mullard GZ34 and the 6FD7 tubes?  The only shop that I've used is audiotubes.com for my preamp's telefunken smooth plates, but it appears that they don't carry the GZ34 or 6FD7s.
   
  Thanks


----------



## jc9394

Try eBay, but make sure to purchase from a reputable seller.


----------



## Xcalibur255

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-6EW7-Tube-International-Japan-Fat-Bottle-NOS-NIB-Woo-Audio-6-/200733311674?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ebca342ba
   
  You might consider these as well.  The 6EW7 will help keep your soundstage from shrinking, and the Japanese tubes have really good bass drive.  The 6EW7 itself is often considered a bass light tube (though I never thought so, it just presents differently), but the Japanese made ones have an ample bottom end IMO.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> some full music 300b, sylvania 5u4gb and 6sn7gta


 
   
   
  my intention of getting them only for just in case and well last night, i broke the stock 5u4g....so i swapped the sylvania and wow.  the dynanic, the vocal.  not sure how much longer i can wait to switch the rest of the tubes


----------



## Silent One

Glass - it's a good idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to have back up glass.


----------



## pioferro

Man, I can't wait to get my WA2!!! Threads like this make me want it more and more. Unfortunately Jack has had a delay and I haven't been able to get mine yet, ordered it on 4/27!!!!! Anyways, can't wait to post pics of it along with my headphone collection.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> my intention of getting them only for just in case and well last night, i broke the stock 5u4g....so i swapped the sylvania and wow.  the dynanic, the vocal.  not sure how much longer i can wait to switch the rest of the tubes


 
   
  No regret and forget about the broken stock rectifiers since you have something better which can really make the WA5 sings, although it seems a bit earlier as planned.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  When I ordered my_ 6 Special Edition_, it came with Miss Sophia... never looked at the stock rec. Only after the first six months did I get curious and roll it in. Five minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was five minutes too long. It had to go! So, I gently pulled the tube out of the Teflon socket and right then and there the glass separated from its base.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote:  





> I gently pulled the tube out of the Teflon socket and right then and there the glass separated from its base.


----------



## keph

That was what i did too after recieving my WA6SE...i was busy shopping tubes in Hong Kong..somehow i havn't even tried the stock Rectifier...haha..from what SO experienced i dont want to spend my next 5mins on it...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> That was what i did too after recieving my WA6SE...i was busy shopping tubes in Hong Kong..somehow i havn't even tried the stock Rectifier...haha..from what SO experienced i dont want to spend my next 5mins on it...


 
   
  I think stock tubes are great for establishing baseline signatures and learning what's possible. I would have giving the Sovtek 5U4G rectifier much more time inside the amp, save the fact I had a Sophia Princess waiting to address a lot of Jazz Combos. 
   
  And 'Silent One' would never 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 want to keep a Princess waiting...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I also remember having a discussion with a few members about tubes and the boxes they come in. Sometimes, even using the skill of a surgeon is not enough to prevent an old tab from ripping or tearing on the box.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I think stock tubes are great for establishing baseline signatures and learning what's possible. I would have giving the Sovtek 5U4G rectifier much more time inside the amp, save the fact I had a Sophia Princess waiting to address a lot of Jazz Combos.
> 
> And 'Silent One' would never
> 
> ...


 
   
  My stock tubes is the Chinese (Shuguang maybe) 274b one which cost 5$ here haha...For now my Full Music 274b is on the 100hour mark and it keeps getting better and better...somehow i feel there is more Bass or its because of my Stello U3's PSU?..
   
  edit- My 400 Post yeahh!! soon 500...go go go


----------



## Ahzari

silent one said:


> I also remember having a discussion with a few members about tubes and the boxes they come in. Sometimes, even using the skill of a surgeon is not enough to prevent an old tab from ripping or tearing on the box.
> h34r:




+1 I try to be very careful opening some of the driver tube boxes but those pesky tabs still get slightly torn...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When I ordered my_ 6 Special Edition_, it came with Miss Sophia... never looked at the stock rec. Only after the first six months did I get curious and roll it in. Five minutes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I will only grab the base of the old light bulbs when I need tube rolling, especially those pricey NOS tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> That was what i did too after recieving my WA6SE...i was busy shopping tubes in Hong Kong..somehow i havn't even tried the stock Rectifier...haha..from what SO experienced i dont want to spend my next 5mins on it...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> I will only grab the base of the old light bulbs when I need tube rolling, especially those pricey NOS tubes.


 
   
  Maybe there is some device that we can buy to remove the tubes from the Socket = More Money haha..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  yup i do that too, i always pull the base while wiggling it left and right..and 1 thing i hate most is that finger prints on the old light bulb..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  So, there'll be no doubt, I only remove and insert tubes by their base. And because the tube was not stuck inside the Teflon sockets suggests to me the separation was going to happen eventually, by any means of handling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Improper storage combined with excessive heat over time probably rendered the glue useless.
   
  Had this been one of my storied mid-forties TS-BGRP's, I would have immediately fell silent.


----------



## ardilla

hi there, all fellow Woos
   
  I just finished my side by side comparison write up on the *WA2* and *WA22*.
   
  I'm curious about what you guys will say..
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-wa2-vs-wa22


----------



## kchew

That was a great review, I loved your subjective ranking with different tracks. I've had the Raytheon 6SN7 and EML 5U4G in my WA22 before and this combo does sound pretty solid state to me as well. If you want something warmer and lusher for the WA22, something like RCA greyglass or Brimar CV1988 with Brimar 5R4GY rectifier will warm things up. On a Woo-related note, I decided to stop being lazy and tried out the Tung Sol and RCA 5U4GB rectifiers I have lying around, and I'm amazed at how good they sound considering their cheap price. Together with the Sylvania 6SN7W and Chatham 6AS7, they might not have the best speed, soundstaging or refinement, but this combo is very balanced and immersive. For now the RCA is a tiny bit better, but let's see how they'll perform after putting some hours in them. At $15 or less a tube, these guys are no-brainers if you want to try something different and cheap.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> hi there, all fellow Woos
> 
> I just finished my side by side comparison write up on the *WA2* and *WA22*.
> 
> ...


 
  Very nice review and pics - thanks for sharing.


----------



## Dixter

For those that may have a loose base on a tube... here is how you fix it...
   
  http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/glue.htm


----------



## tropicana

Has anyone tried using WA2 preamp into a Meier Concerto/ Classic or another SS headphone amp?
   
  I have the HD800 & LCD2, currently using Meier Classic with them.
  Am thinking of getting a tube amp, WA6SE or WA2. I intend to keep the Classic for now.
   
  Would expect WA2 be a better complement/contrast to the Classic, as oppose to WA6SE.
   
  I have two sources, DAC and TT.  Instead of using splitters/ switchbox, the preamp function in the WA2 could come in handy.
  Hence, wondering what would it sound like WA2 => Classic => HD800 & LCD2.
   
  Anyone?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





tropicana said:


> Has anyone tried using WA2 preamp into a Meier Concerto/ Classic or another SS headphone amp?
> 
> I have the HD800 & LCD2, currently using Meier Classic with them.
> Am thinking of getting a tube amp, WA6SE or WA2. I intend to keep the Classic for now.
> ...


 
  Funny you should mention the WA2 preamp into the Concerto. I did that last year when I owned them both. It still wasn't close to driving my (now sold HE-6s). I didn't find any advantages with the HD800s, but the LCD-2s did sound better.


----------



## tropicana

At 300ohm, WA2 (640mw) is more powerful than the Classic (320mw).
   
  So for the WA2 => Concerto => LCD2, was it best of both worlds?
  Tubey yet authoritative?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





tropicana said:


> At 300ohm, WA2 (640mw) is more powerful than the Classic (320mw).
> 
> So for the WA2 => Concerto => LCD2, was it best of both worlds?
> Tubey yet authoritative?


 
  A bit more bite and authority.


----------



## ardilla

edit


----------



## ramarge3653

[size=small].[/size]


----------



## tropicana

I have a loaned WA6SE with me now.
   
  Initial impression with stock tubes compared to Meier Classic:
   
  HD800: Very impressed.  
  - Sounds so much fuller, especially bass and mid-range
  - Less edgy and less dynamic, which really helped tame the highs
  - The sound stage on WA6SE makes more sense (wholesome) than the Classic which sounds unusually wide (very lateral)
  It really seems like they were meant to be used together.
   
LCD2: the difference is not that noticeable compared to HD800, in fact, I prefer the Classic for LCD2...
- Sounds a little underpowered compared to the Classic
- Bass, which is the forte of LCD2, is not as authoritative 
- Sound stage roughly the same
Can't say as much really.  Overall, sounded weak and I already think that Classic is not powerful enough.
   
  Plucked the LCD into the high Z jack, that made all the difference.
  I've sold the Classic convinced that WA6SE is a better match for the LCD2.
  One of the main deciding factor was the holographic sound produced by a tube amp that can't be replicated by any crossfeed settings on the Classic.
   
  I have Sophia 274B and Raytheon 6DN7 as well, will try later and see if any difference.


----------



## setamp

I have been following with much interest the 596 rectifier discussions.  What is the current status of this tube / adapter should I wish to buy one or get on the waiting list for one?


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





tropicana said:


> I have a loaned WA6SE with me now.
> 
> Initial impression with stock tubes compared to Meier Classic:
> 
> ...


 
   
  If the Woo6se/LCD2 sound weak then there is something amiss. Mine sound anything but and at nearly 2 watts into 50 ohms it should not.


----------



## tropicana

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> If the Woo6se/LCD2 sound weak then there is something amiss. Mine sound anything but and at nearly 2 watts into 50 ohms it should not.


 
   
  I don't quite get it too.  Classic's output is about 2w at 50ohms as well.
  It should not be that different.
   
  But the grip it has on HD800 is astounding.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





setamp said:


> I have been following with much interest the 596 rectifier discussions.  What is the current status of this tube / adapter should I wish to buy one or get on the waiting list for one?


 
  That is for sure. From all my rectifier tubes (EMl 5U4G Mesh, Mullard GZ37, Brimar, Fivre, TungSol and RCA) my favorite is the 596.


----------



## Silent One

Of the handful of recs I've tried with two amps, the USAF-596 is my favorite to date, as well!


----------



## setamp

Who do I contact to get on the list for the 596 and/or adapter?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Who do I contact to get on the list for the 596 and/or adapter?


 
   
  The last place I ordered area all sold out but that was few weeks ago.  Adapter, try email Jack.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Who do I contact to get on the list for the 596 and/or adapter?


 
   
  USAF-596
   
  Send fellow member Ultrainferno a PM...
   
  Curiously, what amp will the rectifier/adapter be for? And if you should know, two rulings from two teams have left me with current chronic sleep disorder:
   
  The Immaculate Reception & The Tuck Rule.


----------



## ardilla

Try the WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also - Watts aren't What it's all about. 
  Quote: 





tropicana said:


> I have a loaned WA6SE with me now.
> 
> Initial impression with stock tubes compared to Meier Classic:
> 
> ...


----------



## setamp

Ah.............  a Raiders fan.  If you fly into Pittsburgh's airport you will find a statue of George Washington and beside him Franco Harris !

 I recently purchased a Decware CSP2 and am waiting for a Taboo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Ah.............  a Raiders fan.  If you fly into Pittsburgh's airport you will find a statue of George Washington and beside him Franco Harris !
> 
> I recently purchased a Decware CSP2 and am waiting for a Taboo.


 
   I knew you'd get it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hope you're able to secure a pair of USAF-596's from our guy...


----------



## Ultrainferno

You guys are making me want to buy a WA2! At least I'll have the tubes for it 
  So anyone in europe selling his WA2? 
  
  Well that or a decware Taboo!


----------



## ardilla

The the CSP2+ is the proper comparison to the WA2 (since it is an OTL pre/headamp) 
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You guys are making me want to buy a WA2! At least I'll have the tubes for it
> So anyone in europe selling his WA2?
> 
> Well that or a decware Taboo!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

agree, my WA6-SE sounds amazing with the LCD-2 and never sounds underpowered.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> The the CSP2+ is the proper comparison to the WA2 (since it is an OTL pre/headamp)


 
   
  I know, but the Taboo would be awesome for my ortho's. I already have an OTL 339 but the WA2 looks so gorgeous!


----------



## Silent One

With the LCD-2 I had on loan, I can testify as well... no issues with power.


----------



## ardilla

ultrainferno said:


> I know, but the Taboo would be awesome for my ortho's. I already have an OTL 339 but the WA2 looks so gorgeous!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You guys are making me want to buy a WA2! At least I'll have the tubes for it
> So anyone in europe selling his WA2?
> 
> Well that or a decware Taboo!


 
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I know, but the Taboo would be awesome for my ortho's. I already have an OTL 339 but the WA2 looks so gorgeous!


 
   
  Ahhh Now you want a Woo too? Welcome to the club Sir, wait for a few more weeks your tube collections will add some 5998's...
   
  imo i just cant resist any Woo made amps...they are Beautifully beautiful...


----------



## keph

Yup imo any Woo except the WA3 will just power the LCD-2 marvelously...
   
  Edit: im now listening to Melody Gardot's album using the WA6SE and LCD-2 and i can't complain a single bit..


----------



## Ahzari

Any update on the 596 adaptors from Woo..?
   
  I feel like I ordered mine ages ago


----------



## keph

Well some new Shots and Shoes for my WA6SE...
   
         
   
      Maybe a new Woo Advertisement picture?                              New Ebony with Brass spikes


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





keph said:


> Well some new Shots and Shoes for my WA6SE...
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a new Woo Advertisement picture?                              New Ebony with Brass spikes


 
  looks nice..! any subtle differences in the audio experience?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Baby got new shoes... weigh in with your thoughts in a week, two or three. They're beautiful!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Any update on the 596 adaptors from Woo..?
> 
> I feel like I ordered mine ages ago


 
   
  I'm on the sidelines watching... and waiting.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> looks nice..! any subtle differences in the audio experience?


 
   
  Don't know if its placebo effect or not somehow before i don't think that spikes will make a change in sound. I do believe it now, Placebo or not i feel that the imaging & instrument separation becomes better and somehow makes everything section more refine..i'm liking it..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is good to hear. After about a month, try swapping them out and see what you think after a few days of going back to stock footers.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is good to hear. After about a month, try swapping them out and see what you think after a few days of going back to stock footers.


 
   
  Will Do!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Great pic Ardilla! A friend (you know who you are  ) just mailed me, he might let me borrow his WA2 for a year, how incredibly nice would that be!! 
  Probably to hard to realize, but awesome gesture! He earned a free 596


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Great pic Ardilla! A friend (you know who you are  ) just mailed me, he might let me borrow his WA2 for a year, how incredibly nice would that be!!
> Probably to hard to realize, but awesome gesture! He earned a free 596


----------



## redcat2

Well i have been readying through this forum now for two weeks, i can see this is going to cost me money WA6-SE here i come. I do love amps with tubes.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Well i have been readying through this forum now for two weeks, i can see this is going to cost me money WA6-SE here i come. I do love amps with tubes.


 
   
  You love them but your wallet does not...hehe..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  wait till you roll some OLB = Old Light Bulbs your wallet will hate it even more...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Any update on the 596 adaptors from Woo..?
> 
> I feel like I ordered mine ages ago


 
  They should be shipping soon. When I ordered mine Jack said they will shipped at the end of this month.


----------



## San Raal

Good to hear folks are going to get to hear the 596 rectifier, its unique and defiantly worth a roll if you can get your hands on one and a suitable adapter!
   
  Have secured a loan pair of LCD3 here in the UK and suspect that these will replace the PS1000 in my collection, should arrive tomorrow really excited about listening to them and enjoying with my recently updated phono stage. Anyone here using the LCD3 in their Woo?
   
  Also been really getting back into appreciating the HD800 now I'm using an all tube source with the WA5, to say that the sound is anything except magical would be selling them short. Not bad for a pair of cans that 3 months ago I was considering selling!


----------



## ardilla

LCD-3 is great in wa2 and wa22


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> LCD-3 is great in wa2 and wa22


 
   
  Should defiantly be in for a Woo treat then! I'm told these are from a new production and do have the option of buying and part-ex. It will also be reassuring given some of the discussion in the LCD3 thread that I can try the pair I want to buy for comfort, sonic's etc.


----------



## ardilla

Go!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Someone got the full stock of 596 tubes so none are left. Sorry. At least I made some happy!

Edit: might have found a new batch!


----------



## tropicana

Replying to some of the comments posted, my impression was LCD2 is underpowered by the WA6SE when compared to Meier Classic.
Not saying that it is underpowered in general.. It is still enjoyable, but i'd rather listen to it on the Classic.
   
  Used the high Z jack for LCD2.  Made all the difference...
   
  Had some time with the Sophia rectifier tonight
  Overall, I preferred the stock made in china 274B when listening to HD800
  - the soundstage is kinda lateral with the Sophia, somewhat similar to Classic.  The stock tube definitely added more depth.
  - the bass is leaner and of higher quality
  - there's more detail in the  mid and treble region
   
  However, all these improvements do not complement the HD800.  
  In fact, I think it makes it sounds edgy and bass light, although not as much as it does on the Classic.  
   
  The stock tube is darker and has more emphasis on the bass area (a bit of bloom) which I thought was perfect with the HD800.
  Also, HD800 inherently has a very wide soundstage, the stock tube added depth to it which makes it sounds more natural.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





tropicana said:


> However, all these improvements do not complement the HD800.
> In fact, I think it makes it sounds edgy and bass light, although not as much as it does on the Classic.


 
   
  The listening I've done with the HD800 leads me to beleive they are very source/amp dependant given there ultra transparent nature. I had tried several different source and rolling combos on the WA5 and was ready to give up on them until I received my Mapletree Ultra 4SE phono stage now fully loaded with Mundorf PIO caps and revamped PSU. Had been using the K1000 decided to roll in the HD800 and the result was cor, blimey these sound much better than I remember!
   
  I realise now why when I bought them the salesman at Stone Audio brought in a carefully selected amplifier to demo them on.
   
  I agree that the stock pair of Shugaung 274B I got with my WA5 isn't too bad at all.


----------



## ardilla

I'm not sure "underpowered" is the right word. 2W is plenty. That you find the Meier better for you might be due to a lot other issues than raw power. There is a lot more to running a headphone than wattage. As you know, of course. 
  Quote: 





tropicana said:


> Replying to some of the comments posted, my impression was LCD2 is underpowered by the WA6SE when compared to Meier Classic.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Someone got the full stock of 596 tubes so none are left. Sorry. At least I made some happy!
> Edit: might have found a new batch!


 
   
  Found a new batch but will have to order 10 units minimum.


----------



## Silent One

That's still great news... a great opportunity! And Woozies are an organized bunch, so no problemo.


----------



## keph

Well Speak of the Devil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
   
               
   
  While Chatting with Mr.Ultra The package arrived safely...
   
  I haven't heard the sound yet still burning for the next 1 hours first, but i can already hear my LCD-2 singing Melodiously...
   
  BTW the tube adapter works flawlessly...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





keph said:


> Well Speak of the Devil
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Glad they arrived safely. enjoy them!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Glad they arrived safely. enjoy them!


 
   





 Cheers buddy...


----------



## Ultrainferno

7 to go for the new 596 delivery


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 7 to go for the new 596 delivery


 
   
  Can i get 2 more??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The 596 are so great..I Thought my Full Music 274b was thin sounding and my Tung-Sol 5U4G was too thick The 596's was just right between them..For now i am a Happy man for the next 9997 Hours...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Are you still supplying the 596 adapters?


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Are you still supplying the 596 adapters?


 
   
  Yes i can still help to get the adapters...hope if its a lot so i can ask someone to help me and organize the shipping too so i don't have to send it one by one...


----------



## ardilla

Which Tung-Sol 5U4G was that? I'm looking for a thicker sound...
  Quote: 





keph said:


> ....Tung-Sol 5U4G was too thick ...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Which Tung-Sol 5U4G was that? I'm looking for a thicker sound...


 
   
  It's the VT-244...nice tube but too thick for me...


----------



## setamp

I am willing to distribute the adapters in the US.  I can receive the bulk order and send out the US deliveries.


----------



## keph

the top left one Tung-Sol 5U4G VT-244


----------



## keph

Quote: 





setamp said:


> I am willing to distribute the adapters in the US.  I can receive the bulk order and send out the US deliveries.


 
   
  Great...!!!!! So Setamp can help me out...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> Well Speak of the Devil
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You have quite a lot of OLBs to play with, enjoy the 596, you must love how it sounds with your Woo, enjoy buddy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Waking up to your post was better than reading The Los Angeles Times.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Waking up to your post was better than reading The Los Angeles Times.


 
   
  Help me my LCD is stuck over my head...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You have quite a lot of OLBs to play with, enjoy the 596, you must love how it sounds with your Woo, enjoy buddy.


 
   
  Well this is all because of you guys. Yes i do love it now i cant stop listening to music the LCD is stuck over my head...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 You do know photographs go a long way in this thread.


----------



## keph

Well now we have 2 people who ordered each a pair. Who wants to order the Adapters from me can PM me or Setamp..


----------



## ramarge3653

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Have secured a loan pair of LCD3 here in the UK and suspect that these will replace the PS1000 in my collection, should arrive tomorrow really excited about listening to them and enjoying with my recently updated phono stage. Anyone here using the LCD3 in their Woo?
> 
> 
> Please post your results about the LCD3.  I'm using the PS1000s and just curious to hear direct comparison.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





keph said:


> Well now we have 2 people who ordered each a pair. Who wants to order the Adapters from me can PM me or Setamp..


 
   
  Only 3 real demands for 596 so far. Still 7 to go or no 596 at all


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





ramarge3653 said:


> Please post your results about the LCD3.  I'm using the PS1000s and just curious to hear direct comparison.


 
   
  The LCD3 and PS1000 both share the monster headphone on your head syndrome,I only briefly compared them so far, but safe to say at this stage the PS1000 has lots more top end energy.
   
  I will do some more comparisons as I'm thinking of buying the LCD3 to replace the PS1000.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> You have quite a lot of OLBs to play with, enjoy the 596, you must love how it sounds with your Woo, enjoy buddy.


 
   
   
   
  OLB?


----------



## grokit

Old Light Bulbs.


----------



## Clayton SF

Old Light Bulbs.


----------



## keph

HAHA OLB Getting Famous here...!!!!


----------



## ramarge3653

.


----------



## ramarge3653

Quote: 





san raal said:


> The LCD3 and PS1000 both share the monster headphone on your head syndrome,I only briefly compared them so far, but safe to say at this stage the PS1000 has lots more top end energy.
> 
> I will do some more comparisons as I'm thinking of buying the LCD3 to replace the PS1000.


 
  Awesome. How does the bass compare between the 2? I'm currently enjoying my PS1000's with moon audio black dragon cable upgrade. I recently placed an order for some new tubes for my WA6SE, GZ34 Telefunken, and GZ34 Mullard Fat Bottom, 6FD7's, 6DE7s, 6DN7's. I'm very excited to start my rolling project to maximize this setup.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





ramarge3653 said:


> Awesome. How does the bass compare between the 2? I'm currently enjoying my PS1000's with moon audio black dragon cable upgrade. I recently placed an order for some new tubes for my WA6SE, GZ34 Telefunken, and GZ34 Mullard Fat Bottom, 6FD7's, 6DE7s, 6DN7's. I'm very excited to start my rolling project to maximize this setup.


 
   
  I have the black dragon upgrade too on my PS1000. I will pop them on shortly and let you know heh heh, what sort of music do you listen to?
   
  I have a pair of Mullard GZ34 too, work great with the PS1000 and anything really. Have found that the Shuggy CV181 works well to tame the PS1000 highs.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ardilla said:


>


 

 What power tube is that?


----------



## ramarge3653

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I have the black dragon upgrade too on my PS1000. I will pop them on shortly and let you know heh heh, what sort of music do you listen to?
> 
> I have a pair of Mullard GZ34 too, work great with the PS1000 and anything really. Have found that the Shuggy CV181 works well to tame the PS1000 highs.


 
  I'm glad about the Mullard GZ34, and I can't wait to here it!  I primarily listen to a lot of classic rock, punk rock, metal, classical, jazz, and some selected hip hop.
   
  What's the Shuggy CV181?


----------



## jc9394

Looks like TS 5998


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When I ordered my_ 6 Special Edition_, it came with Miss Sophia... never looked at the stock rec. Only after the first six months did I get curious and roll it in. Five minutes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is that the one that sits between the power tubes?  Mine failed too. First, it sounded bad from day 1.  Then, it lost vacuum. Then when taking it out, it separated from the base.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





seehear said:


> What power tube is that?


 

 It's a Green Labeled Tung-Sol 5998 with side and top getters...Probably made in the 60's im guessing 1966?


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Only 3 real demands for 596 so far. Still 7 to go or no 596 at all


 

 you might contact Jack and see if he wants them...   he's working on an adapter for them too


----------



## ardilla

Yup
  Quote: 





keph said:


> It's a *Green Labeled Tung-Sol 5998* with side and top getters...Probably made in the 60's im guessing 1966?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





ramarge3653 said:


> I'm glad about the Mullard GZ34, and I can't wait to here it!  I primarily listen to a lot of classic rock, punk rock, metal, classical, jazz, and some selected hip hop.
> 
> What's the Shuggy CV181?


 
  The Shuggy CV181 is a current production Chinese 6SN7. Its a "premium" product in their range, overpriced IMHO but has good reviews from most.
   
  The CV181 is technically not an accurate designation for the Shuggy tube, CV181 is a military code for the ECC32 a "similar" dual triode but with different heater and plate specs than the 6SN7. Calling it a CV181 was probably a marketing decision.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> OLB?


 
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Old Light Bulbs.


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Old Light Bulbs.


 
   
  Quote: 





keph said:


> HAHA OLB Getting Famous here...!!!!


 
   
  Yes, jc9394's registered term.


----------



## keph

Hey Dannie on end July - August are u free?? i will be going there for Holiday...Yeahhh!!!


----------



## keph

Well No words left...I'm crying now..It happen just now while i was pulling out the tube and it slipped off my fingers and drop to the floor...Pls someone Kill me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..well now i have 4995 hours left...
   
   
  See that 2 Hand phone at the background?? The tube made that happen, Yess im an angry man..


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





keph said:


> Hey Dannie on end July - August are u free?? i will be going there for Holiday...Yeahhh!!!


 
   
  Going HK?  I may be in Shanghai that time.  Let's see if I can find a flight to HK before back to the States.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





keph said:


> Well No words left...I'm crying now..It happen just now while i was pulling out the tube and it slipped off my fingers and drop to the floor...Pls someone Kill me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Doh! bad luck man.
  Last time I send you rare tubes!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Going HK?  I may be in Shanghai that time.  Let's see if I can find a flight to HK before back to the States.


 
   
  Come we will be the 3 Musketeers...anyone else care to join?


----------



## kchew

Oh man, so sorry about your loss. You do have a spare right?
   
  But if that's the only damage it took, that is one tough tube. I was expecting the glass to be smashed to smithereens and the plates bent on impact. It looks like the 596 has really rugged glass and internal structure.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Doh! bad luck man.
> Last time I send you rare tubes!


 
   
   
  Did you put a Spell on it??


----------



## keph

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Oh man, so sorry about your loss. You do have a spare right?
> 
> But if that's the only damage it took, that is one tough tube. I was expecting the glass to be smashed to smithereens and the plates bent on impact. It looks like the 596 has really rugged glass and internal structure.


 
   
   
  Yup i still have 1 more...well 596's are Tough though...


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Only 3 real demands for 596 so far. Still 7 to go or no 596 at all


 

 Will these work in my WA2? If so, count me in.  I'm new at this tube game and willing to try what ever is good.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Will these work in my WA2? If so, count me in.  I'm new at this tube game and willing to try what ever is good.


 
   
  Don't think its ok for a wa2. Two EZ80 rectification tubes are used in the WA2


----------



## keph

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Will these work in my WA2? If so, count me in.  I'm new at this tube game and willing to try what ever is good.


 
   
  No it will not work...get some 5998's


----------



## Dubstep Girl

one time i took my sophia out to clean it, and when i pulled it up, it smashed on the shelf on top of it, i was so scared thinking it cracked or broke or something.
   
  but nope, nothing, i was shocked at their durability, thought it broke because i hit it pretty hard
   
  tubes are very tough to break i think, and the sylvania 7236 looks basically indestructible.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Doh! bad luck man.
> Last time I send you rare tubes!


 
  I just spilled my coffee!
  I'm hiding my tubes from keph.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> Yes, jc9394's registered term.


 
   
   
   
   
  yeah read a few pages back on OLB.  was thinking outside linebacker.....i miss football!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I just spilled my coffee!
> I'm hiding my tubes from keph.


 
   
   
  Opps...It's ok to hide your Tubes but don't hide your amp ok...


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





keph said:


> Hey Dannie on end July - August are u free?? i will be going there for Holiday...Yeahhh!!!


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Going HK?  I may be in Shanghai that time.  Let's see if I can find a flight to HK before back to the States.


 
   
  That's great, let's amke it buddy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Oh man, so sorry about your loss. You do have a spare right?
> 
> But if that's the only damage it took, that is one tough tube. I was expecting the glass to be smashed to smithereens and the plates bent on impact. It looks like the 596 has really rugged glass and internal structure.


 
   
  What I may do in the future - collect non-performing Sophia Princess; EML 5U4G; USAF-596 and conduct a "Drop test" into a thin Hat box on a concrete floor. Will increase the height incrementally, Olympic style. If the senders are Stateside, it would be worth the $5 shipping for my amusement... and curiosity.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> That's great, let's amke it buddy.


 
   
  The trip is not confirmed but know more next week.  Check expedia.com, it looks like only 2.5 hrs flight to HK but will add on another $1K on the ticket price.


----------



## dminches

How do the electrical characteristics of the 596 compare to a 5U4G or a GZ34?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> one time i took my sophia out to clean it, and when i pulled it up, it smashed on the shelf on top of it, i was so scared thinking it cracked or broke or something.
> 
> but nope, nothing, i was shocked at their durability, thought it broke because i hit it pretty hard
> 
> tubes are very tough to break i think, and the sylvania 7236 looks basically indestructible.


 
   
  At one time or another, we all deserve a break... _whew, that was close!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before _the break. _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How do the electrical characteristics of the 596 compare to a 5U4G or a GZ34?


 
   
  Not sure, but I have this sheet...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Though, I pulled upward with fingers securely on the base, I immediately saw the glass wobble a bit._ _However, had this not been the case, it wasn't going back in anyway... ever!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Well No words left...I'm crying now..It happen just now while i was pulling out the tube and it slipped off my fingers and drop to the floor...Pls someone Kill me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Man, this is really tough to look at. And may cause me to toss and turn, getting absolutely no sleep tomorrow morning.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Man, this is really tough to look at. And may cause me to toss and turn, getting absolutely no sleep tomorrow morning.


 
   
  Keph do is good for business


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You remind me of a broker - someone buying or selling, it doesn't matter. Activity is still good for your business.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey Ultrainferno--look!
   

   
*[size=11.5pt]Firearms[/size]*
[size=9.0pt]You may not carry articles in your hand baggage or check-in baggage which are or appear capable of firing a projectile or causing injury. These include:[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Air pistols, air rifles and pellet guns[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]BB guns (ball bearing guns)[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Catapults[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Crossbows[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Firearm components (except telescopic viewing equipment and view finders)[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Firearms (pistols, revolvers, rifles, etc.)[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Harpoons and spear guns[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Humane animal killers[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Industrial staple and nail guns[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Jewellery or amulets made out of live bullets or empty bullet shells[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Lighters[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Replica and imitation firearms[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Signal flare pistols[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Starting pistols[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Stun or shocking devices, e.g. cattle prods and ballistic conducted energy systems[/size]
[size=10.0pt]·         [/size][size=9.0pt]Toy guns[/size]
[size=10pt]·         [/size]Headphone Amplifiers except the Woo Audio 2 (WA2)*[size=9pt]*[/size]*
   
*[size=9.0pt]*[/size]* [size=9.0pt]applies only to flights to or from San Francisco[/size]

[size=9.0pt]Some firearms, ammunition, and high-end headphone amplification units intended for sports, hunting purposes, and leisurely listening may under certain conditions be carried as check-in baggage. Check with the Cabin Attendant, Ultrainferno.[/size]


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey Ultrainferno--look!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  LOL Clayton!
  So it did pay off chatting up that KLM girl this morning on the phone for half an hour


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> LOL Clayton!
> So it did pay off chatting up that KLM girl this morning on the phone for half an hour


 
  A half an hour? What else did you ask her? LOL.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A half an hour? What else did you ask her? LOL.


 
   
  I did the same with the Audiologist for my custom IEM impressions, after 20 minutes she offered me 2 pairs of impressions for free. What can I say..."keep your daughters inside and away from the phone?"


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





keph said:


> Well No words left...I'm crying now..It happen just now while i was pulling out the tube and it slipped off my fingers and drop to the floor...Pls someone Kill me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Bummer! In the immortal words of POTUS.42: _I feel your pain._
   
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> Oh man, so sorry about your loss. You do have a spare right?
> 
> But if that's the only damage it took, *that is one tough tube*. I was expecting the glass to be smashed to smithereens and the plates bent on impact. It looks like the 596 has *really rugged glass* and internal structure.


 
   
  Yep, I think the glass is thicker, as it's the high-altitude replacement for another tube (could be worth exploring but would need a different adapter) mentioned in the graphic that SO posted. If it wasn't for the "antennas", it probably wouldn't have broke.
   
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> How do the electrical characteristics of the 596 compare to a 5U4G or a GZ34?


 
   
  Paging 2359Glenn...


----------



## Silent One

I remember a few Woozies running the RK60 inside their Woo's just over a year ago. But, I'd like to know how they compare to the '596.' If Clayton SF so desired, he could answer this question for us. Well, if my memory serves this afternoon...


----------



## grokit

So I've noticed a couple of things re the _Mighty 596._
   
  First of all, for the LCD-2 it remains the top of the heap over my other current favorite rectifier tubes (Princess 274B, PSVANE WE274B knockoff).
   
  But with a caveat: It seems to thrive with the additional power of the Sylvania 7236 power tubes. I have tried a variety of 6080 and 6AS7G tubes with it, and even with the HD800 I have noticed better performance with the 2-watt tubes. The planars themselves benefit from the additional power as well so the difference is greater with the LCDs. I can definitely live with the 7236/596 combo with the 800, but the LCD really craves the 596.
   
  Has anybody else noticed this? I would imaging that the differences would be similar with other 5998/7235/2399 etc, tubes.
   
  This difference in performance leaves me with an entirely first-world dilemma. When I use my WA22 as a preamp, it works much better with the lower-powered 6AS7G/274B tubes, but when I roll in the 2-watt power tubes it's better for me to attenuate digitally. But especially with the LCDs, the 7236/596 _rules, _while the 800's work great with the lower-powered tube combo as well. So it leaves me with perhaps a wider variety of possibilities that I bargained for, I haven't quite decided yet.
   
  I'm leaning toward simplifying my complicated system by dumping my 274Bs and 6080/6AS7Gs and getting more 596/7236 backups, and finding a DAC that offers attenuation along with a 32-bit sampling rate (finally a real excuse to upgrade my DAC!) So if I want to keep my software setup and habits the same, the Woo DAC is back in contention as the Gungnir doesn't offer digital attenuation.
   
  edit: I just noticed that the WDS-1 only offers 24-bit sample rate. Maybe a couple of XLR attenuators instead...
   
  While I am getting a handle on what power tubes and rectifiers I will ultimately prefer, I am about to muddy up the waters entirely as I have been neglecting the rolling of driver tubes, and I have accumulated a wide variety of those while pretty much sticking to the Shuggies in practice. I swore I wouldn't get like this, but I seem to be under the spell of the OLB's (along with a few new ones). My wallet hates me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I remember a few Woozies running the RK60 inside their Woo's just over a year ago. But, I'd like to know how they compare to the '596.' If Clayton SF so desired, he could answer this question for us. Well, if my memory serves this afternoon...


 
   
  I actually ordered a pair and then changed my mind. If all the specs are the same, a 596 adapter with different leads or adapters for the different antenna contacts should work


----------



## grokit

So I rolled in some Sylvania 6SN7 chromedome driver tubes along with the 7236/596, and the LCD-2 is _sounding mighty fine!_




  This was not the case so much last night with them along with the 596/6AS7G.


----------



## Clayton SF

I need some feedback, please:
   
  I've actually done some research to see if it is possible for me to take on board a flight (as a carry on) my WA2. I am traveling from SF to Amsterdam anyway so I thought that I could also drop off the amp at Ultrainferno's doorstep or at least at his hotel room's front door. He's been itching to listen to one so I thought to myself "why not lend him mine for a year." I mean, what are fellow Head-Fi'er for anyway but to exchange experiences and occasionally lend amps to each other? Besides, he got me a few 596s and I can only return the favor in this manner. (Also he might treat me to a beer or two in good old Amsterdam.)
   
  Ultrainferno has also helped by calling a KLM rep and chatting her up for more than a few minutes to get some answers regarding this issue. I'm sure he was also trying to get me a discounted ticket. 
   
  By all accounts the WA2's box is in compliance (by its dimensions and weight) so I can bring with me on the plane and place it under the seat in front of me in the economy section.
   
  What I would like to know is: has anyone had any experience taking a headphone amp like the WA2 on board a commercial airliner? I've looked at KLM's website and I think the WA2 could be classified as a Musical Instrument! 
   
http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/prepare_for_travel/baggage/exceptional_baggage/index.htm#p11
   
  Feedback is appreciated! Thanks....
   
  Clayton


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So I rolled in some Sylvania 6SN7 chromedome driver tubes along with the 7236/596, and the LCD-2 is _sounding mighty fine!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Tonight, Haagen-Dazs it is, in recognition of your accomplishment!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is when a backup amp comes in handy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I need some feedback, please:
> 
> I've actually done some research to see if it is possible for me to take on board a flight (as a carry on) my WA2. I am traveling from SF to Amsterdam anyway so I thought that I could also drop off the amp at Ultrainferno's doorstep or at least at his hotel room's front door. He's been itching to listen to one so I thought to myself "why not lend him mine for a year." I mean, what are fellow Head-Fi'er for anyway but to exchange experiences and occasionally lend amps to each other? Besides, he got me a few 596s and I can only return the favor in this manner. (Also he might treat me to a beer or two in good old Amsterdam.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  The box is in compliance but in Post 911 skies, if I were you I'd get clarity on content. I would make two quick inquiries - FAA & Jack Wu. Hope this helps!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So I've noticed a couple of things re the _Mighty 596._
> 
> First of all, for the LCD-2 it remains the top of the heap over my other current favorite rectifier tubes (Princess 274B, PSVANE WE274B knockoff).
> 
> ...


 
   
  The W4S DAC-2:
   
  Great sound
  Upgradeable
  3 year warranty
  Excellent customer service
   
  What's not to love?


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





keph said:


> No it will not work...get some 5998's


 
  I found these...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> What's not to love?


 
   
  I like everything about it, except the form factor. The Gungnir is excellent that way and it's price is right, but no attenuation and no AES/EBU input. The NAD M51 is perfect for my needs (35-bit, 844 kHz!) but even more $ than the WDS.
   
  So the search continues, luckily I really enjoy my existing pedestrian setup. I'll probably just keep buying Old Light Bulbs*™* while I think on it a while longer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Silently, not exactly loving the aesthetics of my shoe-box, but...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I found these...


 
  Jack did have them in stock before, he may still have some.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The trip is not confirmed but know more next week.  Check expedia.com, it looks like only 2.5 hrs flight to HK but will add on another $1K on the ticket price.


 
   
  This is crazy, 1K can buy 2 return tickets from HK to Shanghai. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let me know your itinerary when confirmed.


----------



## redcat2

Hi,All as i have been reading through is forum now for two weeks and caught the bug, and have just purchased a WA6-SE should be here early next week. It will be interesting to do a comparison to a 339 la-figaro and a stax SRM-1/MK2 Professional, i need more space.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi. My next amp may well be the Lafigaro 339 (thanks to Ultrainferno and keph).


----------



## keph

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I found these...


 
   
  imo that is the Computer version of 5998 and somehow looks like a 5998A which i believe Skylab says that its sound is not so good...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi. My next amp may well be the Lafigaro 339 (thanks to Ultrainferno and keph).


 
   





...
   
  Btw Clayton, i did bring my WA6SE from Hong Kong to Beijing without any problem. IMO its better not to bring the WA2 over board the plane since it will pass through a lot of security inspections.. When i check-in at the counter i put the WA6SE box so that it could be inside the planes cargo/baggage storage, With this you don't have to bring a 12KG box and through multiple security inspections. The Woo Box is really though, mine was the double box one.. Oh don't forget to ask the Check-in counter for a Fragile sticker to stick on the WA2 box..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dannie01 said:


> This is crazy, 1K can buy 2 return tickets from HK to Shanghai.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  1K will fund me a DAC-2 in Hk...Thank God ticket from BJ to HK cost only $400 round trip...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Hi,All as i have been reading through is forum now for two weeks and caught the bug, and have just purchased a WA6-SE should be here early next week. It will be interesting to do a comparison to a 339 la-figaro and a stax SRM-1/MK2 Professional, i need more space.


 
   
  Well let us all know what you think about the comparison between the WA6SE and the 339...i've already got something/thoughts on my mine considering this two amps..who knows my thoughts and your are the same...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Heavy Metal-Hot Water and Woo


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> LOL Clayton!
> So it did pay off chatting up that KLM girl this morning on the phone for half an hour


 
   
  Always Ultra Always...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Heavy Metal-Hot Water and Woo


 
   
  Wew..Nicee...Mind if i take a spot..


----------



## Sid-Fi

I've been swamped at work and am about 15 pages behind in this thread. While I am catching up, here is a picture of my Audiophilleo PurePower that just came tonight. Pardon the dark iPad picture.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I've been swamped at work and am about 15 pages behind in this thread. While I am catching up, here is a picture of my Audiophilleo PurePower that just came tonight. Pardon the dark iPad picture.


 
   
   
  Nice....how does it compare with the non-PurePower configuration???


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Gungnir is the perfect form factor for a "desktop monitor stand" (with a frame around it of course). I would have to change the way I use Pure Music though, as I currently have DSP options disabled so I can't attenuate via software. I'll probably cave and give it a try though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





keph said:


> Wew..Nicee...Mind if i take a spot..


 
   
  +1


----------



## ramarge3653

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Heavy Metal-Hot Water and Woo


 
  Holy crap, be careful with that listening position.  Granted, it's not a toaster on a ledge of a tub, but it's rather close.  BTW what kind of metal are you into?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Heavy Metal-Hot Water and Woo


 
   
  This could easily be a frame from a modern day Hitchcock film, if he were still with us. Looks lovely at first glance...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do it, grokit... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 do it now!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ramarge3653 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just under the letter "S" alone, we have *S*neeze-*S*plash-*S*hock... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  We're ALL wishing for the best, of course, Redcarmoose's rejuvenation without incident!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Do it, grokit...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha it's not out yet (thankfully), gonna have to unload some more Old Light Bulbs*™* first.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





ramarge3653 said:


> Holy crap, be careful with that listening position.  Granted, it's not a toaster on a ledge of a tub, but it's rather close.  BTW what kind of metal are you into?


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/616196/the-heavy-metal-review-thread#post_8491273


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Hi,All as i have been reading through is forum now for two weeks and caught the bug, and have just purchased a WA6-SE should be here early next week. It will be interesting to do a comparison to a 339 la-figaro and a stax SRM-1/MK2 Professional, i need more space.


 
  congrats, welcome to the 6SE club..!


----------



## keph

Oh Oh my 6SE with 596 & Pinnacle 6DR7 is amazing....best combo for 596..Somehow the 6FD7 series don't sing well with the 596's...


----------



## Ultrainferno

596 order update: Together with Keph's new order we're at 6 tubes. Still need 4 to go, Two haven't confirmed yet.
  I'm sure you can understand I'll be needing your money first, I'm not going to invest + $800 in tubes who might not get sold 
  Anyway, we still need 4. As soon as we reach ten, I'll pm all the interested people and confirm shipping costs.
  After that, once I get the green light from everyone, I'll order them
   
  U.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 596 order update: Together with Keph's new order we're at 6 tubes. Still need 4 to go, Two haven't confirmed yet.
> I'm sure you can understand I'll be needing your money first, I'm not going to invest + $800 in tubes who might not get sold
> Anyway, we still need 4. As soon as we reach ten, I'll pm all the interested people and confirm shipping costs.
> After that, once I get the green light from everyone, I'll order them
> ...


 
   
  Yeah i ordered 2 more Hehehe...i guess my new hobby is eating OLB's


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





keph said:


> imo that is the Computer version of 5998 and somehow looks like a 5998A which i believe Skylab says that its sound is not so good...


 
  Well actually, no, it's not a 5998A. It's a TS7236 (often referred to as 5998 also) of which I have several pair and from that same seller also. Excellent power tubes, dead quiet. They are the absolute pinnacle power tubes in my WA22 imo.
  I also got some TS5998 from him too. Very good seller.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Well actually, no, it's not a 5998A. It's a TS7236 (often referred to as 5998 also) of which I have several pair and from that same seller also. Excellent power tubes, dead quiet. They are the absolute pinnacle power tubes in my WA22 imo.
> I also got some TS5998 from him too. Very good seller.


 
   
  Yes what i told was it looks like the 5998A (bottle shape)...well its still called the computer version of the 5998 ive read it somewhere...


----------



## keph

596 Converter Update..
   
  Setamp = 2
  Dixter = 2
  Jdmoorman = 2
   
  Total = 6
   
  so i guess the first batch will be due to 15 July, orders before 15 July will be shipped few days after using DHL roughly 2-4 days to the US to our fellow member Setamp..


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I've been swamped at work and am about 15 pages behind in this thread. While I am catching up, here is a picture of my Audiophilleo PurePower that just came tonight. Pardon the dark iPad picture.


 

 I like the stand - what is it and where did you get it?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





keph said:


> Yes what i told was it looks like the 5998A (bottle shape)...well its still called the computer version of the 5998 ive read it somewhere...


 
  The 5998A does not equal the brilliance of the TS5998. The former being only an adequate sounding tube, while the latter was a true classic.


----------



## Rawrbington

for the WA3 and WA2 the 5998 is really the way to go.
  6AS7G is decent.  but i've had bad luck with those RCA tubes being noisey
  the 6080 just lacks weight
  haven't hear the 7236 yet though
   
  i should probably offer up a trade at some point for a pair
  since im sitting on 6 TS5998 that aren't in use


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Rawrbington* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> i should probably offer up a trade at some point for a pair
> since im sitting on 6 TS5998 that aren't in use


 
   
  Someone say "Trade?" Pssst, I've got some authentic Thunder memorabilia for some TS5998's... PM to come!


----------



## Silent One

Can anyone weigh-in with their experiences - TS5998 vs TS7236 inside their Woo's?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

if i remember correctly, when i had the 5998, it seemed to bring out the midrange more on the T1, and added a bit of a bloom to the bass. i like my 7236 more though. 
   
  my pair didn't get much listening time because i thought they where broken due to distortion with my lower impedance cans.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can anyone weigh-in with their experiences - TS5998 vs TS7236 inside their Woo's?


 
  Depended on the Woo amp in question really. In the WA2, the TS5998 was the best option, but for the WA22 (most euphonic in the Woo line up), I preferred the TS7236.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Dubstep Girl; MacedonianHero. 
   
  My custom built 2359glenn amp is an OTL design, so I often take peeks at what WA2 owners are up to. DG, if you liked the 7236 more, in what way may I ask?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

umm i'm not really too sure. i guess because i liked the tighter sound and better neutrality. i like the WA2 being silky smooth and only slightly warm, with a generally more neutral sound to it.


----------



## Sid-Fi

It's a VTI BL series audio rack. I love it and think its an amazing value at $250 with free shipping. There was quite a bit of discussion on it awhile back on this thread so searching the thread might help. I think a couple of members of the thread ended up buying one and liking it as well.

Here is a link...apparently the website changed names. Hope this helps.

http://www.wayfair.com/VTI-BL-Series-4-Shelf-Audio-Rack-BL304-VI1005.html




seehear said:


> I like the stand - what is it and where did you get it?


----------



## redcat2

Hi,I am reading through so old post trying to look for an answer to my question when i have come across your a post about adapters (6SN7 > 6DE7). My question is this can i use these in a WA6-SE? I believe i have to get some special ones from Glen that have a resistor built in is this correct?


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Hi,I am reading through so old post trying to look for an answer to my question when i have come across your a post about adapters (6SN7 > 6DE7). My question is this can i use these in a WA6-SE? I believe i have to get some special ones from Glen that have a resistor built in is this correct?


 
  Redcat: you are correct. I currently own a _Woo Audio 6 - Special Edition_ with Glenn-made 6SN7 adapters, all of which I purchased a few months ago from Silent One. The 6SN7s run extremely cool, and, on the whole, the set-up sounds wonderful.


----------



## Sid-Fi

The PurePower is an awesome little unit. It feels really substantial and durable with a great chassis and nice fit and finish. It is a notable step up from the AQVOX low-noise linear usb power supply (which was in itself a nice improvement over AP2 stock). Coming straight from the AP1/2 to the PurePower would seem like an awesome improvement without having had the Aqvox in between.

The additional improvements are similar to those the AQVOX brought, only better. I am getting a very black background, effortless low level detail, and an organic/musical touch that adds much more of an immersive experience to my ears. Compared to my setup sounding awful while the AP2 was away getting modded, it sounds glorious right now.

I'll have to post my AQVOX in the for sale forums tomorrow and save some lucky chap an arm and a leg in shipping from Germany. It cost me $75 to ship the dumb thing from Germany this last Christmas :0.






keph said:


> Nice....how does it compare with the non-PurePower configuration???


----------



## keph

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> The PurePower is an awesome little unit. It feels really substantial and durable with a great chassis and nice fit and finish. It is a notable step up from the AQVOX low-noise linear usb power supply (which was in itself a nice improvement over AP2 stock). Coming straight from the AP1/2 to the PurePower would seem like an awesome improvement without having had the Aqvox in between.
> The additional improvements are similar to those the AQVOX brought, only better. I am getting a very black background, effortless low level detail, and an organic/musical touch that adds much more of an immersive experience to my ears. Compared to my setup sounding awful while the AP2 was away getting modded, it sounds glorious right now.
> I'll have to post my AQVOX in the for sale forums tomorrow and save some lucky chap an arm and a leg in shipping from Germany. It cost me $75 to ship the dumb thing from Germany this last Christmas :0.


 
   
  Cool, My Stello U3 with external PSU does the same thing after adding the PSU. The background becomes darker and instrument separation, imaging and the detail get's much better.
   
  well i was never convinced over that AQVOX PSU it looks like an 5$ wall adapter with usb on the end which cost almost 100Euro...


----------



## keph

Well anyone tried using the 6EA7/6EM7/6GL7 with their WA6SE?? how does it compare to the 6SN7??


----------



## fenom60

If anyone is looking for TungSol 7236 , Vacuumtubes.net have a good stock for $72 per matched pair, i received mine a few days ago and they are excellent 91/90gm, dead quiet
   
  My fav tubes is now TS7236 + EML5U4G (still waiting for Woo 596 adapters)+ KenRad 6SN7GT BlackGlass (also from Vacuumtubes.net)


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> How do the electrical characteristics of the 596 compare to a 5U4G or a GZ34?


 
  Was there a particular spec you were interested in?
   
  Fundamentally the specs are similar to a 5U4G in that it is a 5V tube with a 3A filament current draw.  The tube is highly fortified though to withstand both more shock and to last for longer service periods than normal tubes.  The spring filament supports for example are a pretty rare feature that help make it immune to shock.  It will probably last a whole lot longer than a normal audio rectifier.
   
  The only other useful spec I can add is its current rectification capacity, which is 275mA.  Vastly more than any Woo amp needs and about 50mA higher than a 5U4G.  There are tubes that do more, but this is on the high side. 
   
  The original datasheet I found was more of a sell sheet for United Electronics and doesn't provide as much detail as usual.  There was no information about voltage drop for example, and the plate curve diagram was different from the one I know how to read so no help there.  I'm guessing it has less voltage drop than a 5U4G, which would correlate to the slightly more energetic sound everybody reports but exactly what the value is I don't know.
   
  Hopefully that is at least somewhat helpful.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> If anyone is looking for TungSol 7236 , Vacuumtubes.net have a good stock for $72 per matched pair, i received mine a few days ago and they are excellent 91/90gm, dead quiet
> 
> My fav tubes is now TS7236 + EML5U4G (still waiting for Woo 596 adapters)+ KenRad 6SN7GT BlackGlass (also from Vacuumtubes.net)


 
  Sounds like they're testing them properly now.  That's good.  I didn't figure it was ever on purpose.


----------



## Ultrainferno

596 tube update. We're still stuck at 6 tubes... Waiting for confirmation from D Girl, we still need 4 tubes looking for a home
  Anyone else?


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 596 tube update. We're still stuck at 6 tubes... Waiting for confirmation from Dixter, Musicman59, Ahzari an Aries626, If they're all in we're at 10
> Anyone else?


 
   
  Same here i got 6 already..2 Steamp, 2 Dixter and 2 Jdmoorman. any one needs some??


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmmm....


----------



## Silent One

Get in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dubstep Girl... operators are standing by!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so bad for my wallet!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  how much are the tubes + adaptor thingys anyways


----------



## Silent One

Not sure what Ultrainferno's current price is. But he's fast approaching lunch overseas and should return you an answer soon. Keph's buddy I believe is pushing them out the door @ $40 a pop. WooAudio @ $50 if memory serves (limited edition). And 2359glenn could very well come to your rescue late July, in and around these prices.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm thats not too bad then. 
   
  anything under 100 dollars in this hobby is a steal.


----------



## Silent One

@ Dubstep Girl
   
  This tube may not be for every Woozie, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but huge bang-for-the-buck for those it is! And the demand is there in case you'd like to move it... and move on to try another tea.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not sure what Ultrainferno's current price is. But he's fast approaching lunch overseas and should return you an answer soon. Keph's buddy I believe is pushing them out the door @ $40 a pop. WooAudio @ $50 if memory serves (limited edition). And 2359glenn could very well come to your rescue late July, in and around these prices.


 
   
  Almost lunch time indeed 
  I'll PM DG


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Ultra! She'll be so happy, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 she won't even think to ask you for chocolate!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, Ultra! She'll be so happy,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Shipping food overseas isn't allowed 
  If you need adapters don't PM me, contact Keph, I don't have any at all. I'm just trying to get enough buyers for the 596 rectifiers


----------



## Silent One

September is going to have to be "Roll in your 596 and submit a pix" month. Queens, NY will never be the same!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 596 tube update. We're still stuck at 6 tubes... Waiting for confirmation from D Girl, we still need 4 tubes looking for a home
> Anyone else?


 
   
  Update: We are now at 7 tubes, only DG has to confirm. That means we're still 3 short...


----------



## setamp

I posted the 'group buy' for the 596/adapters on the Decware appreciation thread.


----------



## Silent One

FYI --
   
  2359glenn now has some 596 adapters available, if anyone is interested. Send him a PM...
   
  Update: Two adapters are available now and feature black wires (oooh, I should get one myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). $30 plus shipping. Not sure if we're allowed to mention pricing, so count on DeadPrez - A 'Jackson' & 'Hamilton' perhaps, plus shipping.


----------



## Xcalibur255

He has MOTT status now, so we should probably check to see if price related discussion is kosher just to be safe.
  
  Might have to bite someday myself, though I am in no hurry.  If not for your preference for the 596 over the 3DG4, SilentOne, I wouldn't even think about it.  I've never found myself wanting with the 3DG4 in the amp, ever.  The amp wouldn't have such amazing bass if the rectifier wasn't holding up its end of the deal.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> FYI --
> 
> 2359glenn now has some 596 adapters available, if anyone is interested. Send him a PM...
> 
> ...


 
  PM'ed Glenn 
   
  -tired of waiting for the Woo adaptor, plus good to have back up/ Glenn's might look better than the white base Woo adaptor


----------



## john57

If it was me I would just be as happy to stick with the reliable 3DG4 since there is not many amps that can use them anyways.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> He has MOTT status now, so we should probably check to see if price related discussion is kosher just to be safe.
> 
> Might have to bite someday myself, though I am in no hurry.  If not for your preference for the 596 over the 3DG4, SilentOne, I wouldn't even think about it.  I've never found myself wanting with the 3DG4 in the amp, ever.  The amp wouldn't have such amazing bass if the rectifier wasn't holding up its end of the deal.


 
   
  Agree on his designation and price related discussions. And believe it ain't allowed, so I crossed it out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, but anyway... in our amp the _Mighty 596_ has less of an impact versus my Woo, where the difference was not subtle. The 3DG4 delivers but with the genre of music I favor, I like the tonal quality of the '596' a bit better. I do remain open to rolling in a few other rectifiers for the adventure and soon may find something else I really like.
   
  Glass aside, our amps really are an amazing piece of kit!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> If it was me I would just be as happy to stick with the reliable 3DG4 since there is not many amps that can use them anyways.


 
   
  And the price is fantastique! I love having the option of using a '596' when the mood strikes, and the go-to 3DG4 when I'm playing music and need to know! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will roll in the 3DG4 over the holiday for a few...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  Me too! Don't really need another adapter. But then he mentioned them having black wires.


----------



## Groundzero

Just got my notification of shipment from Woo for my 596 adapter. I'm only one state over so it should be here tomorrow! Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Me too! Don't really need another adapter. But then he mentioned them having black wires. :evil:




I do prefer the red wires...


----------



## jc9394

Been busy at work lately and have no time for Woo, finally everything caught up and currently in session with Jacky Cheung's "Snow, Wolf, Lake". The 596, Treasure, and GEC 6080 really shine with Asian vocal.


----------



## dminches

xcalibur255 said:


> Was there a particular spec you were interested in?




I just wanted to make sure that if a piece of equipment calls for a 5U4G or a GZ34 that I can safely substitute a 596.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Been busy at work lately and have no time for Woo, finally everything caught up and currently in session with Jacky Cheung's "Snow, Wolf, Lake". The 596, Treasure, and GEC 6080 really shine with Asian vocal.


 
   
  Gets my vote... really like the way you do things inside your listening room!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, red has that alluring quality. Looks very nice. With my amp, having a silver mug...er...face with a black body, burgundy caps sitting on top, I'd better stick with the black wires.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Yes, red has that alluring quality. Looks very nice. With my amp, having a silver mug...er...face with a black body, burgundy caps sitting on top, I'd better stick with the black wires.




With my silver boat anchor (put on my flame resistance suit), the red wires was the conversion pieces when my friends over last weekend. Half of them really impress with PWD, WA22, and HD800. The other half was like, seriously? You paid that much for that thingy?


----------



## Dixter

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Update: We are now at 7 tubes, only DG has to confirm. That means we're still 3 short...


 

 I'll take one more tube please....   won't hurt having an extra spare...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Agree on his designation and price related discussions. And believe it ain't allowed, so I crossed it out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Don't know if I ever mentioned this, but I have also tried the Mullard GZ33 in the amp since it is capable of handling the current requirements.  I thought this was the best rectifier available when I had my Woo, it provided the best bass control and detail level even over the EML 274B.  In the OTL it was surprisingly tepid sounding.  A very warm gentle sound but with no drive to it at all.  The 3DG4 just totally slaps it around, which maybe is to be expected of the tube the circuit was designed for in the first place.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I just wanted to make sure that if a piece of equipment calls for a 5U4G or a GZ34 that I can safely substitute a 596.


 
  The heater current draw is the same so no problems there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not sure why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but your description made me sit up a little straighter; take note. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not just any rec can hang with the OTL amp. This makes me proud of the '596.' Some nights, I think the 3DG4 sounds a little more robust. Hard to say, since I don't spend time A&B'ing, I like to let things run - a day, week, month. Other nights, they could be two peas in a pod, but it always seems like the 596-Car  has a little more polish across the spectrum. 
   
  Returning to an earlier incident, much like the one above in bold type, with my WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition_, the '596' even intimidated rectifiers I had not yet ordered!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> Just got my notification of shipment from Woo for my 596 adapter. I'm only one state over so it should be here tomorrow! Can't wait to try it out.


 
   





 And I can't wait to see it! Especially inside your amp...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

decided to just hold off on the 596 tubes, i'm pretty poor right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  trying to sell the RS1 and pro 900 first to fund another purchase as well.
   
   
  might post an extra sylvania 7236 pair up for sale soon too.


----------



## Silent One

Pretty poor seems like the next class up, sister. I'm so poor, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't rub two nickels together! Now, that would make me destitute I believe. "Selling off" is the only way I've been able to fund purchases while being Yobless. And I don't mind, I've come to accept my new found reality as being temporary... and I'm still getting new stuff!
   
  Hope my words of encouragement matters to someone, especially amp owners of WooAudio._ I never give up... _


----------



## Ultrainferno

596 Update: We're almost there. 2 more would be excellent!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks.
   
  im still looking for jobs here too. 
   
  in the mean time, selling off stuff too lol.
   
  these ultrasone and grado got to go too... the LCD-2/T1 have completely dethroned the RS1i at being the best headphones for rock music (at least until i get PS1000)
   
   
  still looking at HE-500 or some other high end headphone.


----------



## Loevhagen

Anyone here having experience with the HE-500 powered by a WA22?


----------



## keph

Sorry Guys i have been very busy and just got back home 3AM..
   
  Converters Update
   
  7 Total.
   
  Setman = 2
  Jdmoorman = 2
  Dixter = 2
  Aries626 = 1
   
  i have ordered 10 already and they are in the making now, i still have 3 more to go anyone?


----------



## 082288

Hey everybody,
   
  I have a WA5 LE that I have had for about seven months now. I want to upgrade the tubes. I plan on getting the EML 300B mesh and EML 5U4G's. Has anyone tried, or do you know if the Psvane T-Series CV181's will fit? I read that they are 2 inches wide and I am not sure if there is enough clearance for them to fit next to the 300b's or even each other.
   
  thank you for your help
   
  Brad


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> It's a VTI BL series audio rack. I love it and think its an amazing value at $250 with free shipping. There was quite a bit of discussion on it awhile back on this thread so searching the thread might help. I think a couple of members of the thread ended up buying one and liking it as well.
> Here is a link...apparently the website changed names. Hope this helps.
> http://www.wayfair.com/VTI-BL-Series-4-Shelf-Audio-Rack-BL304-VI1005.html


 

 Thanks!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





082288 said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> I have a WA5 LE that I have had for about seven months now. I want to upgrade the tubes. I plan on getting the EML 300B mesh and EML 5U4G's. Has anyone tried, or do you know if the Psvane T-Series CV181's will fit? I read that they are 2 inches wide and I am not sure if there is enough clearance for them to fit next to the 300b's or even each other.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi Brad,
   
  I have the WA5-LE for 2 years. Mine has the sockets, electronic parts and wiring upgrades. I also upgraded the tubes since the beginning with the EML 300B Mesh, EML 5U4G Mesh and the CV181.
   
  IMO the CV181 are ok but my favorite. I actually sold them after getting some NOS tubes. I have from Mullard ECC32 to RCA 6SN7 gray glass. IMO the best price performance are the 6F8G black glass round plates. They can be TungSol or other brands. I also have some that are gray glass and flat plates that sound pretty good. So my recommendation is to go that way for drivers.
   
  I have several rectifier tubes too but my favorite ones are the USF 596. Since i have been using those my EML 5U4G Mesh have been in storage and the best part is that they cost a fraction of the EML.
   
  You re going to need adapters for both the 6F8G and the 596. You can get them from Woo or Gelnn or "keph" here. Also you can get right now a pair of 596 from "Ultrainferno".
   
  Right now my WA5-LE has the EML 300B Mesh, Emerson (TungSol) 6F8G RG/RP with Glenn's adapters and USF 596 with Glenn adapters. I love it's sound.
   
   I hope this helps.


----------



## 082288

Musicman59,
   
  Thank you very much for taking the time to write and sharing your thoughts and experiences. Looks like have much more to research to do before buying tubes. Did you order your Woo stock and then do the parts, wiring, and socket upgrade? If so i am curious on your before and after thoughts.
  Thank you once again you have been very helpful
   
  Brad


----------



## Silent One

Love the Wooden quote!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





082288 said:


> Musicman59,
> 
> Thank you very much for taking the time to write and sharing your thoughts and experiences. Looks like have much more to research to do before buying tubes. Did you order your Woo stock and then do the parts, wiring, and socket upgrade? If so i am curious on your before and after thoughts.
> Thank you once again you have been very helpful
> ...


 
   
  No, my original order was with al the sockets, parts upgrades & tubes upgrades. I also talked Jack at the moment into let me send him the OCC copper wire (Neotech) and the Cardas Eutectic solder for al the internal wiring. I did receive the stock tubes too and there is a huge difference. The sound is a little harsh with them specially the rectifiers. The power and drivers are ok as backups.


----------



## redcat2

I feel like a child with a new toy the WA6-SE has arrived.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> I feel like a child with a new toy the WA6-SE has arrived.


 
   
  Cheers mate! If I may ask, what color?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Cheers mate! If I may ask, what color?


 
  +1
   
  grats!


----------



## redcat2

Color Silver.


----------



## Ultrainferno

596 Order update. We're at 9 tubes. Anyone else needs a pair? PM me


----------



## Silent One

596 Order update --
   
  I'm ready 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to drop the confetti! For those with WooAudio amps sitting on the fence, the United Electronics USAF-596 rectifier could take you higher. Higher sound quality and a higher performance to price ratio.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Color Silver.


 
   
  That Bear is killing me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Silver... a refined choice.


----------



## Ultrainferno

596 Tube update: We are go! The list is now closed
   
  I've contacted the seller and am waiting for his reply. I will pm everyone on the list as soon as I have more info/with further instructions
   
  Thanks !
  U.


----------



## keph

Update converters 7 now..!!! who needs some more??


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Weird, I just realized I've owned my maxed WA6 for almost 4.5 years and I'm still keeping it.  It's not the best, but it has some qualities that makes it hard to part with.  I've kept very few pieces of audio gear this long, but it's a great bang for the buck.  Every time I decide to sell it I turn it on and listen, and I give up the idea.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Weird, I just realized I've owned my maxed WA6 for almost 4.5 years and I'm still keeping it.  It's not the best, but it has some qualities that makes it hard to part with.  I've kept very few pieces of audio gear this long, but it's a great bang for the buck.  Every time I decide to sell it I turn it on and listen, and I give up the idea.


 
   
  I know what you're sayin'! Looking back, I should have kept my Woo. I had this GRAND idea to fund my new amp purchase with the proceeds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Could have had both and just spent a few dollars less at the grocery store for a month.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Weird, I just realized I've owned my maxed WA6 for almost 4.5 years and I'm still keeping it.  It's not the best, but it has some qualities that makes it hard to part with.  I've kept very few pieces of audio gear this long, but it's a great bang for the buck.  Every time I decide to sell it I turn it on and listen, and I give up the idea.


 
   
  I heard you on this.  Every time I'm thinking selling my WA22 to fund the LF, I listen to it with the best tube combo I have.  I simply just ask myself, how much it is better with LF?  It is worth the $1000+ for the last 5-10%.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know what you're sayin'! Looking back, I should have kept my Woo. I had this GRAND idea to fund my new amp purchase with the proceeds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My grand idea on the beta22 was to save up and keep the WA22.  It takes a while but in the end, it is worth it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  To make up for it, I'm off in a couple of minutes to see a vintage Pioneer D7000 (120 wpc).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard you on this.  Every time I'm thinking selling my WA22 to fund the LF, I listen to it with the best tube combo I have.  I simply just ask myself, how much it is better with LF?  It is worth the $1000+ for the last 5-10%.


 
  Don't look now, but there's a LF on sale in the F/S forum right now by an outstanding Head-fier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  FWIW, I'm really glad I made the upgrade to the LF from the WA22. The differences weren't earth shattering, but still enough for me to be completely satisfied now.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To make up for it, I'm off in a couple of minutes to see a vintage Pioneer D7000 (120 wpc).


 
   
  It is much easier to find vintage in the west coast than here.  I'm still having hard time to find a low price Sansui 9090DB.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Don't look now, but there's a LF on sale in the F/S forum right now by an outstanding Head-fier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are the devil that gets me thinking on the LF...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I saw that LF but from what I read, the later production LF is better for low impedance phones.  I think it is silly to look at the LF now since the newer version is around the corner.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> You are the devil that gets me thinking on the LF...


 
   
  Haha he gets me going on the LCD3 but I'm holding tight for now...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Haha he gets me going on the LCD3 but I'm holding tight for now...


 
  Sorry fellas.


----------



## randomstranger

I'm experiencing a low hum from my WA2 that used to have a silent noise floor.  I think it is related to my tubes.  From my picture I would assume that I need to replace the GE 6AS7 power tube due to the way it looks.  Can I get a confirmation that this is where the low hum is coming from since it makes classical music unbearable?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard you on this.  Every time I'm thinking selling my WA22 to fund the LF, I listen to it with the best tube combo I have.  I simply just ask myself, how much it is better with LF?  It is worth the $1000+ for the last 5-10%.


 
  +1
   
  i still can't make the jump from the WA2 or WA6-SE to the WA22.... (you all know i mention it all the time lol)
   
   
  i'm very satisfied with both amps right now.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

To: randomstranger: Hard to tell from the picture... Do you have any other 6AS7 tube set you could throw in there & listen if it makes a difference? It might even be one of the other ones, or some other, new nearby EF disturbance that may cause it rather than any of the tubes...
   
  The outside of the tube shouldn't have much impact to the inside. If there is some corrosion on the pins that didn't make a difference before, I doubt it'd start now esp. if they were in there all the time. Check if the "chrome" blotch inside is not turning white or grey-ish, that would be one sign the tube is failing.
   
  Tracking down the root of a problem is always the first, sometimes hardest, step before attempting any fix. Unless of course you look for an excuse to roll some new tubes...


----------



## FX5K

Quote: 





keph said:


> Update converters 7 now..!!! who needs some more??


 
   
  I'll be needing two as well, thanks!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





fx5k said:


> I'll be needing two as well, thanks!


 
   
  No problem since ive ordered 10 already...with you i have 9 adapters already..1 more??? or ill keep it as my spare?
   
  Update.
   
  FX5K = 2
  Jdmoorman = 2 
  Dixter = 2
  Setamp = 2
  Aries626=1
   
  Total 9..


----------



## randomstranger

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> To: randomstranger: Hard to tell from the picture... Do you have any other 6AS7 tube set you could throw in there & listen if it makes a difference? It might even be one of the other ones, or some other, new nearby EF disturbance that may cause it rather than any of the tubes...
> 
> The outside of the tube shouldn't have much impact to the inside. If there is some corrosion on the pins that didn't make a difference before, I doubt it'd start now esp. if they were in there all the time. Check if the "chrome" blotch inside is not turning white or grey-ish, that would be one sign the tube is failing.
> 
> Tracking down the root of a problem is always the first, sometimes hardest, step before attempting any fix. Unless of course you look for an excuse to roll some new tubes...


 
   
  I'll try to clean the tubes after I pick up some Isopropyl alcohol tomorrow.  If that doesn't work, then I'm going to end up having to get new tubes.  I don't assume that Woo Audio's warranty covers tubes.   What tube recommendations would you give for someone who would like to start tube rolling without spending a lot of money?  I can find myself hearing the difference between tubes more palpable compared to cables.  I do enjoy the stock Woo tubes so if I can find a full set of power, drive and rectification tubes for a decent price, then that should solve my problem.  But if anyone has low cost alternatives for someone who enjoys a wide variety of music then let me know.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

So those came stock with your WA2? I don't know how long you've had it, but you can always contact Jack at Woo Audio and ask... Schiit replaced mine for the Valhalla when one side started hissing after about 3 weeks. (Your post reminded me about my own set that I almost immediately replaced, and I cannot find it back after looking for half an hour... I know they were standard Sylvanias for power, and some JJs for rectifier... so strange.)
   
  Which ones to buy... that's a loaded question since there almost as many opinions as there are tubes. 6AS7s are easy to find, and on a budget, new-ish production russian ones especially, and you might like the bottle shape; prices go slightly up from regular to "Winged C" to NOS SovTek ones but all still affordable. Personally I wouldn't be able to tell the difference to be honest. I now have some fancier 5998s and Sylvanias on the way.
   
  There are other people here with more experience who may give you more interesting choices. Besides that, this thread might help. Also, since I just linked to it in another thread: The New Improved Tube FAQ for Newbies
   
  P.S.: My avatar is a close-up of the base of a Winged C 6AS7G


----------



## ramarge3653

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I have the black dragon upgrade too on my PS1000. I will pop them on shortly and let you know heh heh, what sort of music do you listen to?
> 
> I have a pair of Mullard GZ34 too, work great with the PS1000 and anything really. Have found that the Shuggy CV181 works well to tame the PS1000 highs.


 
   
  My order of tubes came in today, and I am very happy with the results.  I ended up doing a full tube roll through my inventory just to be safe and I ended up staying with the Telefunken GZ34 and RCA 6FD7's.  I no longer find the high's too forward with my PS1000's and the overall sound is very smooth with much more bass than I expected. 
   
  My previous combo was the Sophia Princess with 6GL7's and this turned out to be not to my liking.


----------



## jc9394

ramarge3653 said:


> My order of tubes came in today, and I am very happy with the results.  I ended up doing a full tube roll through my inventory just to be safe and I ended up staying with the Telefunken GZ34 and RCA 6FD7's.  I no longer find the high's too forward with my PS1000's and the overall sound is very smooth with much more bass than I expected.
> 
> My previous combo was the Sophia Princess with 6GL7's and this turned out to be not to my liking.




Assuming you have either WA6 or WA6SE, I totally agreed on the GZ34 and 6FD7 are the best sounding combo.


----------



## ramarge3653

It's a WA6SE, and it sounds so much better with this tube combo.  I really am very happy with it.


----------



## jc9394

Save some money, you are not getting any better at all. I tried most of the recitifiers and even 6SN7 tubes but eventually going back to GZ34 and 6FD7 combo.


----------



## jc9394

One exception, I did not tried 596 when I had the WA6 maxxed and WA6SE.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> i still can't make the jump from the WA2 or WA6-SE to the WA22.... (you all know i mention it all the time lol)
> 
> ...




From WA6SE is huge difference, mostly because of balanced input.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





ramarge3653 said:


> My order of tubes came in today, and I am very happy with the results.  I ended up doing a full tube roll through my inventory just to be safe and I ended up staying with the Telefunken GZ34 and RCA 6FD7's.  I no longer find the high's too forward with my PS1000's and the overall sound is very smooth with much more bass than I expected.
> 
> My previous combo was the Sophia Princess with 6GL7's and this turned out to be not to my liking.


 
   
  Great news  I posted the LCD3 today after deciding that the Synergy with my WA5 and tube set wasn't really in step with the needs of those cans. Ill miss them as they're like wearing a comfy leather sofa over your ears!
   
  I recall you specifically asked after the bass on the LCD3 vs PS1000. In my opinion and on my rig the bass on the LCD3 is ruler flat and goes very deep, however it lacks a certain firmness and slam that comes with the PS1000. Others will tell you (and their right) that the PS1000 have poor sub-bass performance, but they seem to do just fine for recorded bass guitars (at least to my ears!)
   
  Have used the Sophia Princess 274b on my Woo and I really liked their smooth presentation, but there's something about the GZ34 that goes a little bit further in that department. Bass is great with those too.
   
  If you haven't yet, you ought to try an EML 5U4G and a 596 if compatible with your Woo. I'm not a big fan of the latter but they bring a smile to 9 out of 10 head-fi ers 
   
  The 5U4G is a nice sounding, sort of laid back tube. Can be too polite for some but it works well for me (YMMV) with the PS1000.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> One exception, I did not tried 596 when I had the WA6 maxxed and WA6SE.


 
   
  For my _WA 6 Special Edition,_ the best tube compliment was the TS-BGRP VT-231 & USAF-596 without a doubt.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, a BIG Kool-aid smile! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having enjoyed both of these glasses, I felt it was genre and drive tube dependent. But the '596' handle its business more often than not over both the EML Glass and Miss Sophia. Well, for me anyway...


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Got my 5998s (TungSol black plates) and the morning turned... interesting. I got 3, a pair to be used in my WA2 and later WA22, and one spare (also for better matching, based on my experience w/ 6AS7s)
   
  Good news is, they have detailed measurements on each box, bad news there is not much matching going on there... So my first question is what is best compromise to match things up? GM or plate current? Matched sections per tube or overall average for the pair? I figured I'd go with the closest matched sections and hope the automatic bias in the WA2 will adjust accordingly for the individual tube?
   
  Second, I got a big scare when a few seconds after turning it on, I started hearing a loud rapidfire popping sound from my LCDs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I immediately turned down the volume and unplugged them (LCDs). I didn't get a chance to hear if it was just one of the channels. Is this normal or even OK? Was it just this one time since they were presumably being run for the first time in a long while, or should I expect that sputter every time I turn the amp on? I've never had this happen with any of my russian 6AS7s!
   
  I let it warm up for another ~15min. plugged the headphone back in and slowly turned up the volume and it seemed OK then, dead quiet to the max. volume. I then turned it down and started playing some music, seemed OK too, had to turn it up slightly less to achieve my usual sound level on a couple of tracks I know well. Seem to sound good, but sometimes I seemed to hear a slight vibrato in louder sections and I started to wonder if it's in the track or related to staccato popping I heard when I turned it on... may be my imagination, I'll have to listen on another rig to make sure.
   
  It certainly put a damper on my interest in NOS tubes...


----------



## Rawrbington

heres what i've noticed about those power tubes in  the WA2.
   
  im not sure i can tell the difference between a nicely matched pair of 5998s and a pair that isn't so closely matched.
   
  if i was blind tested and i got it right i would chalk it up to luck.
   
  but i don't swap out my 5998's with my other 5998 pairs that often
  so my comparisons are far apart
   
  and i agree that NOS tubes are kind of a scam gamble
  a nos tube can be noisy or go microphonic just a easily as a used tube


----------



## rosgr63

If the problems started with the 5998's I would have them tested asap.
   
  Plate current is a good way to match tubes.


----------



## dminches

Has anyone received their 596 adapters from Jack Wu yet?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> One exception, I did not tried 596 when I had the WA6 maxxed and WA6SE.


 
  thats what I was just about to ask.. didn't you notice any background noise with the 6FD7s with lower impedance headphones?
  I was told by Jack since they are higher gain tubes they tend to be noisier than the 6EW7 and 6DE7s..


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Has anyone received their 596 adapters from Jack Wu yet?


 
  I e-mailed them - they said it should be out next week.. but who knows, I ended up ordering one from Glenn (he shipped it out Thursday).


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> I e-mailed them - they said it should be out next week.. but who knows, I ended up ordering one from Glenn (he shipped it out Thursday).


 
  I emailed them too and said the same thing to me. They shipped some out at the end of the month but mine will be shipped at the end of next week.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I think Keph is about to send his if you're interested PM him


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Has anyone received their 596 adapters from Jack Wu yet?


 
   
  If I remember correctly, Groundzero should have received his adapter either Tuesday or yesterday, as he's only one State over...


----------



## Groundzero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I remember correctly, Groundzero should have received his adapter either Tuesday or yesterday, as he's only one State over...


 
  Indeed! It shipped Tuesday and I was expecting it Wednesday, but forgot that there is no post on the fourth. I came home yesterday to find it sitting on the front porch, waiting to treat my ears to a night of pleasure. Here's what everyone is waiting for:


----------



## redcat2

Oh very nice......


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Far out, man! The rectifier actually looks as if it's trying to communicate with outer space. I especially like the detail at the bottom: 596>5U4G. As happy as I am for you, Groundzero, I'm more relieved that memory is fine.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Oh very nice......


 
   
  Very nice indeed! I'm raising a glass of Veuve Clicquot tonight in Groundzero's direction.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





groundzero said:


> Indeed! It shipped Tuesday and I was expecting it Wednesday, but forgot that there is no post on the fourth. I came home yesterday to find it sitting on the front porch, waiting to treat my ears to a night of pleasure. Here's what everyone is waiting for:


 
  Oh that looks awesome, Woo came through with the craftsmanship.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> thats what I was just about to ask.. didn't you notice any background noise with the 6FD7s with lower impedance headphones?
> I was told by Jack since they are higher gain tubes they tend to be noisier than the 6EW7 and 6DE7s..


 
   
  No, I did not noticed anymore background noise than 6EW7 when I used it with DX1000 and D7000.  Not sure it is the parts upgrade or not but I did not tried them on the WA6SE.  Woosie will kill me for this, I sold the WA6SE in not time (about a week in my house) when I had the DNA Sonett at the same time.  With the GZ34 and 6H30P-DR, it is perfect match for HD800.  Almost at the same level as my WA22 with GEC 6AS7G, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and EML 5U4G.  Kicking my self now for selling it.


----------



## jc9394

I think I like Glenn's version better than Jack's.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I like Glenn's version better than Jack's.


 
  luckily ill have both to play with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..


----------



## redcat2

Well my WA6-SE with a Sophia princess arrived two days ago, purchased from a Hifi head member with 75 hours on the unit all up, so it looks just like new. First impression is the size followed by the build quality of the unit and the feel is just great, very happy.
  I have to over headphone amps here to compare it two which are a Stax SRM-1/MK2 Professional and a La Figaro 339, now i am just comparing to the 339 at this stage what i found was the difference first thing, a power on & off switch at the front unit no more having to lean over hot tubes to turn a unit off. The unit surprisingly runs quite cool to the 339, even after been on for 6 hours plus.
  Now to the sound well i am impressed at the amount of detail i can here put what i love the most is the smoothness of the sound there does not seem to be any one frequency that jumps out at you it all just blends in. One of the Cd's that i could just not listen to on the 399 was a Diana Krall the look of love, as on certain songs the vocal at the top would all most jump a frequency and appear harsh to my ears, but on this WA6-SE it is smooth across the frequency range like the sound of smooth warm honey, on a David Sylvian Cd sleepwalkers some of the tracks 1 to 4 have taken on a new life where before i would pass them by, the detail is just like a full body red wine that has reached it's full age and reviled all it has to offer.
   
  So this is just a brief listen of 2 days and the things i have found, what i can say as i only have room for two sets of headphone amps, so the WA6-SE and the Stax are the keepers it is time to move on from the LaFigaro amps it has been nice but the time has come.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





groundzero said:


>


 
   
  curious - what driver tubes are you running with your SE in this pic?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> * the detail is just like a full body red wine that has reached it's full age and reviled all it has to offer.*


 
  +1


----------



## Groundzero

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> curious - what driver tubes are you running with your SE in this pic?


 
   
  My favourites, Tung Sol 6DE7s.
   
  I'm glad everyone likes the pictures


----------



## longbowbbs

ardilla,
   
  I spent several hours with the Cary SLI-80 using my HD650's. I have never had an opportunity to try a Woo WA2. How would you compare them as headphone amps?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## redcat2

Well i have done it read through all 1483 pages, only taken three weeks, i would like to say thank you to all of the people on here for your words of wisdom and information i have gleaned a lot reading through this thread and many answer's to the question's i had.


----------



## Ultrainferno

596 Rectifier update: I have PM'ed everyone!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Well i have done it read through all 1483 pages, only taken three weeks, i would like to say thank you to all of the people on here for your words of wisdom and information i have gleaned a lot reading through this thread and many answer's to the question's i had.


 
   
  Talk about dedication!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 596 Rectifier update: I have PM'ed everyone!


 
   





 Another great job, Ultra!


----------



## 188479

Hey all, I have a question on vintage rectifiers for the WA6SE. Are there any sonic differences between the GZ 32, GZ 34 & GZ37 tubes? What are the top tubes to look for?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hey all, I have a question on vintage rectifiers for the WA6SE. Are there any sonic differences between the GZ 32, GZ 34 & GZ37 tubes? What are the top tubes to look for?


 
   
  Never tried GZ32.
   
  GZ34, very dynamic and good bass
  GZ37, slightly wider soundstage and softer


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Small update re: my 5998 (mis)adventure: after some tube swapping it turned out to be one tube only. More worryingly though, it happened with the volume all the way down too, so that's obviously no help.
   
  The good news is that I did my usual +1 spare purchase (when possible & affordable...) so I have a working pair after all. The bad news is that the store replied that I got the last 3 ones and the 5998s have become difficult to find, so they just issued me refund for the defective one.
   
  So that means I'll have to treat my preciousssss like friggin' raw eggs. As an alternative, I just got a well-matched pair of Sylvania 7236s (no spare -_-; and after the initial warmup they fortunately seem to be OK.


----------



## Ahzari

does anyone think the Mullard GZ34 plastic / metal base are better than the Sophia princess on the WA6SE.. considering some rolling but don't know if its worth it.
   
  -btw sorry sure this question has been asked, just couldn't find an answer with a search-


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> does anyone think the Mullard GZ34 plastic / metal base are better than the Sophia princess on the WA6SE.. considering some rolling but don't know if its worth it.
> 
> -btw sorry sure this question has been asked, just couldn't find an answer with a search-


 
   
  When I had the WA6 maxxed and WA6SE, IMHO, the metal based GZ34 is the best rectifier (beating both EML and Sophia)


----------



## Seamaster

I still love my WA22, but got other things to do too
http://www.head-fi.org/t/617875/fs-wa22-balanced-modwright-edition


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I still love my WA22, but got other things to do too
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/617875/fs-wa22-balanced-modwright-edition


 
   
  Calling SilentOne...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Talk about bad timing!




   
  July 2011 and I would have brought that bad boy home!!! I like the mods he went with...


----------



## Seamaster

Yes, it is one of kind. It bettered stock WA22 by large margin. If anyone have a Melody 1688 signature US style in same condition. I will trade.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Never tried GZ32.
> 
> GZ34, very dynamic and good bass
> GZ37, slightly wider soundstage and softer


 
  GZ34 also sound cooler or colder


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> does anyone think the Mullard GZ34 plastic / metal base are better than the Sophia princess on the WA6SE.. considering some rolling but don't know if its worth it.
> 
> -btw sorry sure this question has been asked, just couldn't find an answer with a search-


 
   
  If you are willing to pay shipping, and be gentle. I can send you  mine to try it out. I have both


----------



## WindyCityCy

Wow ... not the best time for me or I would have a 2nd WA22.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Talk about bad timing!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Wow ... not the best time for me or I would have a 2nd WA22.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's always great to see you check-in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, WindyCityCy! Let me guess, if you had the funds, you'd Bi-Amp the WA22's.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Let's see how would I make that work ... dual balanced headphone cables ... Could be something special


----------



## Ultrainferno

So lets say Santa Claus, coming from San Francisco, brings me a WA2 as an early Christmas present. What tubes should I get for it?
  I like warm smooth sound with good bass. I've already got a pair of 2399 power tubes but I'm open to suggestions for Power/rectifier/driver tubes.
  First time Woo'er...
  Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Santie arriving early in the Land of Chocolate and Beer... with a Woo no less, brings new meaning to the term "Gifted." 
   
  Chorus: _Can you use it in a sentence?_
   
  SO: _Ultrainferno is gifted._
   
  Chorus: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Chorus: _Can you use it in a longer sentence?_
   
  SO: _Ultrainferno is a gifted head-fier._
   
  Chorus:


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Santie arriving early in the Land of Chocolate and Beer... with a Woo no less, brings new meaning to the term "Gifted."


 

 Are you always awake?


----------



## WindyCityCy

Seamaster -
   
  How much for your magic moon rocks that changed the field of gravity around your Woo and kept it from blasting into orbit.  That thing definitely puts out more than 1.21 Giga Watts!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  On what day...er... night?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> If you are willing to pay shipping, and be gentle. I can send you  mine to try it out. I have both


 
  PM'ed


----------



## Dubstep Girl

still waiting for my rs1i to sell, debating on getting GS1k (most likely used) or HE-500...


----------



## jc9394

seamaster said:


> Yes, it is one of kind. It bettered stock WA22 by large margin. If anyone have a Melody 1688 signature US style in same condition. I will trade.




Can't believe it is not gone yet, it is one of three modded WA22 that I know of.


----------



## jc9394

Humm, Modwright caps and BG caps comparison? Sigh... If only I have time and money.


----------



## dminches

I think my Woo 596 adapters are waiting for me at home.  I hate when I get packages while I am traveling for business...


----------



## longbowbbs

The waiting is the hardest part!


----------



## Seamaster

I don't know those crystals ever worked. Sure they added weight so the amp has some dampping effects. I do notice there were at least $15 increase on my electricity bill when I was actively listen the amp


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Humm, Modwright caps and BG caps comparison? Sigh... If only I have time and money.


 
   
  +1


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +2 !


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A couple of years back when I first saw Seamaster pop the top - or drop the bottom - on his highly sophisticated '22', I thought my mouse had froze. And turned into a rat. After I found myself staring at the internals a few minutes, I realized that it was me that was motionless and that my mouse was fine.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A couple of years back when I first saw Seamaster pop the top - or drop the bottom - on his highly sophisticated '22', I thought my mouse had froze. And turned into a rat. After I found myself staring at the internals a few minutes, I realized that it was me that was motionless and that my mouse was fine.


 
   
  I would love to compare it with the Dannie01 mod.  When I compared my WA22 to stock one, I can tell the better details and imaging on the first song I listened to.  It is not night and day but the difference is there, much more pronounce than the WA6 maxxed and stock.


----------



## jc9394

Anyone looking for a WA2?  The GEC and TS alone worth over $400 and the GEC looks like the round based one (extremely rare).
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/617900/woo-audio-2-silver-with-blackgate-upgrades-and-tubes


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I find that when differences are subtle ( and they should be if no major flaw(s) in the system exists) they can be greatly appreciated over time and stand out more in this way. One thing is for sure, you make that shoot out happen and I'm showing up with pizza!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I find that when differences are subtle ( and they should be if no major flaw(s) in the system exists) they can be greatly appreciated over time and stand out more in this way. One thing is for sure, you make that shoot out happen and I'm showing up with pizza!


 
   
  If I don't have that D800E on order, you bet I sent PM to seamaster long time ago.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone looking for a WA2?  The GEC and TS alone worth over $400 and the GEC looks like the round based one (extremely rare).
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/617900/woo-audio-2-silver-with-blackgate-upgrades-and-tubes


 
  always happens. i wait and wait for one to pop up in the fs forum, it doesnt. i place order.  less than a week later, one pops up. =\


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> always happens. i wait and wait for one to pop up in the fs forum, it doesnt. i place order.  less than a week later, one pops up. =\


 

 Ping Jack to see if you can cancel the order, this is heck of a deal but t he seller does not have any feedback.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ping Jack to see if you can cancel the order, this is heck of a deal but t he seller does not have any feedback.


 
  man.. id feel so bad for Jack. not that it really puts a dent into his business. the order is about a week old =\.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> So lets say Santa Claus, coming from San Francisco, brings me a WA2 as an early Christmas present. What tubes should I get for it?
> I like warm smooth sound with good bass. I've already got a pair of 2399 power tubes but I'm open to suggestions for Power/rectifier/driver tubes.
> First time Woo'er...
> Thanks!


 
   
  anyone?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> man.. id feel so bad for Jack. not that it really puts a dent into his business. the order is about a week old =\.


 
   
  I know what you meant, I hate that too but this may not happen again especially with the premium upgrade.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Back in February of this year, MacedonianHero made the following suggestion to Jack (I believe) for the WA2:
   
  TS5998 Power Tubes - 115 each
  CV2492 Mullard Driver Tubes -
  EZ80 Telefunken or Mullard Rectifier Tubes
   
   
   
  I'd send a message to MH and hear his thoughts on the matter some months later now...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks! I already have the 2399(5998) and EF80 TFK, but one can never buy enough tubes 
  Looking forward to seeing some more combinations
  
  Edit, misread EZ for EF. Ordering some EZ80 TFK


----------



## Seamaster

jc9394 said:


> Humm, Modwright caps and BG caps comparison? Sigh... If only I have time and money.


,
I been. Through This debate before. untill one Seattle meet. There was member had BG installed in his woo amp also topped with Sophia. That sound was too Thick And woody on top of the already warm woody woo house sound. It was turn off for me.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks! I already have the 2399(5998) and EF80 TFK, but one can never buy enough tubes
> Looking forward to seeing some more combinations


 

 IMO the 2399 is already the top of the mountain for power tubes.  It's a slightly sweeter and harmonically richer sounding 5998 (due to the copper grid post material that Chatham used in their version), both good things for that tube.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know what you meant, I hate that too but this may not happen again especially with the premium upgrade.


 
  no response from jack or the seller... what a stressful situation. lol


----------



## madbull

Quote: 





madbull said:


> I just bought a Tung Sol 5998...  thank you all for the tips!


 

 Well, I did some tests and the result is... I don't like this tube 
   
  My WA3 was sounding amazing with its stock tubes, so in an attempt to make it even better I changed the power tube to 5998 and what I got was a thinner, weaker sound... kind of like my Icon HDP. Does it mean a more solid state sound? I don't know, I can't describe sound with words like most audiophiles do.
   
  I didn't even take the headphones off my head to be sure it wasn't any fitting issue...
   
  The worst thing  is I had to buy a pair...  I guess I'm gonna keep testing and give the other tube a try too...
   
  (I have plans to buy a WA22 in the future, maybe they're a better match for this amp... I hope so)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> still waiting for my rs1i to sell, debating on getting GS1k (most likely used) or HE-500...


 
  FWIW, I preferred the RS1s by a good margin over the GS1000s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Back in February of this year, MacedonianHero made the following suggestion to Jack (I believe) for the WA2:
> 
> TS5998 Power Tubes - 115 each
> CV2492 Mullard Driver Tubes -
> ...


 
   
  Those are them with a slight modification on the wonderful CV2492 Mullards....I'd substitute a pair Siemens E88CC tubes in their place. Not cheap, but a good noticeable step up to my ears.


----------



## Rawrbington

madbull said:


> Well, I did some tests and the result is... I don't like this tube
> 
> My WA3 was sounding amazing with its stock tubes, so in an attempt to make it even better I changed the power tube to 5998 and what I got was a thinner, weaker sound... kind of like my Icon HDP. Does it mean a more solid state sound? I don't know, I can't describe sound with words like most audiophiles do.



try the other tube and report back
thinner weaker sound is not at all what I get from my ts5998s
to me everything else sounds weaker and thinner in comparison. Could be the tube, could be something else. Could be the 5998 just isn't your cup of tea. I know some other folks don't prefer them either


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Agreed, this tube is anything but... something is not quite right.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Agreed, this tube is anything but... something is not quite right.


 
  I think the problem with the TS5998 recently is that it has been so mined that a good % of the ones left are suspect.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  In the long run (or tube rolling in dog years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) you may actually end up saving members a lot of money. How many of us looked back a year or two later at purchases to "get there?"


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In the long run (or tube rolling in dog years
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I don't even want to know how much $ I've spend on tubes through my journey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I can save a few members a few bucks, then why not.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is a good observation. Even in fine dining, a restaurant will need to pass along a % of food left over rather than chuck everything in the trash each night. Stuck Left with inventory, what's a tube seller to do?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is a good observation. Even in fine dining, a restaurant will need to pass along a % of food left over rather than chuck everything in the trash each night.


 
   
  I had a good source for them, but even he is now out of them. I bought 3 pairs from him and all were brilliant. I asked him if he was expecting more and he said that he thought likely never.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've no problem with slipping behind someone who has done it before me and drafting. This way can $ave time and energy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Someday I might just suck it up and get a pair of WE-421A's. It's not like they're seasonally priced... or coming down in price any time soon.


----------



## timeyuu

I want to buy a WA6SE...
  How is the amp compared with ZANA...?


----------



## timeyuu

Hum...I mean WA6SE MAXXED


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've no problem with slipping behind someone who has done it before me and drafting. This way can $ave time and energy.


 
  LoL, well put. I like the analogy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm a cyclist, so...


----------



## Seamaster

Last time I checked ebay, they were over $500 a pair for GEC 6AS7G


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Last time I checked ebay, they were over $500 a pair for GEC 6AS7G


 
   
  It took me a year to come to grips with the TS-BGRP's. They too, went north of $500! Eventually, a fellow member wisely asked_ "You're aware the price is still rising, right?"_
   
  I jumped down from the fence and ran into the house - took delivery three days later. Couldn't have been happier at the time!


----------



## timeyuu

I want to buy a used WEE...
  Is there anyone who want to sell it?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> FWIW, I preferred the RS1s by a good margin over the GS1000s.


 
  I spent a couple of hours with the RS1's running through both the Dragonfly and the Wadia 121. I enjoyed them very much. Nice variety from my 650's


----------



## Silent One

- Withdrawn.


----------



## WindyCityCy

I put my Conti GP4000s tyres on a couple of weeks ago.  No idea why I waited so long.  So much better for braking and cornering than the crappy Schwalbe's that came with the bike.  Still trying to figure out how to strap my WA22 to the bike and maintain riding weight.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm a cyclist, so...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> I put my Conti GP4000s tyres on a couple of weeks ago.  No idea why I waited so long.  So much better for braking and cornering than the crappy Schwalbe's that came with the bike.  Still trying to figure out how to strap my WA22 to the bike and maintain riding weight.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  So far, so good with my own Conti GP4000s'! And unless you go "IEM's," wind noise may present you with another problem beyond the Woo.


----------



## grokit

I sold off my 2399s, (2 pairs), and kept my 7236 power tubes. Nothing wrong with the 2399s, I just prefer the Sylvanias as they sound better to me through a wider variety of headphones.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> Last time I checked ebay, they were over $500 a pair for GEC 6AS7G


 
   
  I paid mine $23 NOS a piece a few months back


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I sold off my 2399s, (2 pairs), and kept my 7236 power tubes. Nothing wrong with the 2399s, I just prefer the Sylvanias as they sound better to me through a wider variety of headphones.


 
   
  Right, I just remembered I bought a pair 2399 from you. Very happy with it actually. and now I'm getting you the 596. Small world!
   
  Any other suggestions in stead of the Siemens E88CC driver ($55/piece)? How about the Sylvania 7308? I can get them fairly cheap ($40)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  By chance, can you source (cheaply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) the Western Electric 421A (pair) from over that way?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> By chance, can you source (cheaply
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  None available, sry


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> ,
> I been. Through This debate before. untill one Seattle meet. There was member had BG installed in his woo amp also topped with Sophia. That sound was too Thick And woody on top of the already warm woody woo house sound. It was turn off for me.


 
   
  do you recall what amp it is?  i do not recall thick and woody on wa22, maybe it is the tubes has a lot to do with it?


----------



## Seamaster

I was lucky back then to get a single one at $30 new in box. But I paid most mine at $100~$150 a pair back then. I managed to break one of my GEC round brown base. one getter broke off for no reason.


----------



## Seamaster

That why WA22 is just right, I did not want to mess up the house sound. Woo amps are known for warm sound.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





madbull said:


> Well, I did some tests and the result is... I don't like this tube
> 
> My WA3 was sounding amazing with its stock tubes, so in an attempt to make it even better I changed the power tube to 5998 and what I got was a thinner, weaker sound... kind of like my Icon HDP. Does it mean a more solid state sound? I don't know, I can't describe sound with words like most audiophiles do.
> 
> ...


 

 If they are NOS give them 24-48 hours, the sound will change pretty dramatically.  The other possibility is that you were sold weak, used up tubes that were tested incorrectly.  This is becoming more common as this tube becomes rare.


----------



## hodgjy

I have the WA3 and have quite a bit of experience with the 5998.  In general, the 5998 is more thin sounding compared to the run of the mill 6080 tubes and the run of the mill 6AS7 (G and GA) tubes.  It's strength is in bass extension, impact, and speed.  Paired with some driver tubes, it can sound on the cold side. 
   
  What driver tubes are you running?  This does make a difference.  Also, the suggestion to let it run in is correct.  It takes some time for it to open up and get some tube bloom.  But, if your stock WA3 tube is the 6080, the 5998 will sound less full and warm in comparison.
   
  Quote: 





madbull said:


> Well, I did some tests and the result is... I don't like this tube
> 
> My WA3 was sounding amazing with its stock tubes, so in an attempt to make it even better I changed the power tube to 5998 and what I got was a thinner, weaker sound... kind of like my Icon HDP. Does it mean a more solid state sound? I don't know, I can't describe sound with words like most audiophiles do.
> 
> ...


----------



## Xcalibur255

Ah, yes, sometimes I forget the 5998 gets run in a 6AS7 circuit by most other people.  It doesn't sound thin when you drive it correctly.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  To me 6080 sound thin, there is no foundation for the music.  Thin and flat.


----------



## timeyuu

Is there anyone want to sell WEE?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Right, I just remembered I bought a pair 2399 from you. Very happy with it actually. and now I'm getting you the 596. Small world!
> 
> Any other suggestions in stead of the Siemens E88CC driver ($55/piece)? How about the Sylvania 7308? I can get them fairly cheap ($40)


 
   
  Umm...you must share your source of Siemens E88CC tubes....normally a good pair go for $250-275ish.


----------



## FX5K

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Right, I just remembered I bought a pair 2399 from you. Very happy with it actually. and now I'm getting you the 596. Small world!
> 
> Any other suggestions in stead of the Siemens E88CC driver ($55/piece)? How about the Sylvania 7308? I can get them fairly cheap ($40)


 
  Personally I like the Siemens E288CC and Amperex 6922 PQ tubes. Both rather expensive but great tubes, the Amperex in particular is very sweet. Another interesting alternative would be the PCC88 / 7DJ8 tubes. I read a lot good stuff about Mullard CV2492, but never tried them myself.


----------



## pioferro

Just using  the WA2 as a pre-amp in my office - haven't even listened to headphones on it - but as a pre-amp  - it is fantastic!!
   




   
   




   
  Don't know why the pic links aren't working....  what am I doing wrong??


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





pioferro said:


> Just using  the WA2 as a pre-amp in my office - haven't even listened to headphones on it - but as a pre-amp  - it is fantastic!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice, the WA2 is a great preamp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


>


 
  Nice Sunfire amp to pair the Woo with!


----------



## 188479

So I have been playing with rolling tubes for my WA6SE. Some combinations I liked and others less so, but nothing really grabbed me. Just rolled in the EML 5U4G and a pair of Tung Sol 6CY7's. Wow...I mean just wow! Super soundstage, very fast and dynamic. Maybe just a tad bright but livable. Best combination I have tried so far


----------



## pioferro

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice Sunfire amp to pair the Woo with!


 
  Thanks - it sounds pretty incredible! I couldn't be happier.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


>


 
   
  Nice set up! I have almost the same setup, purchased with same thing in mind - primarily pre-amp with bonus headphone amp. I use the Sunfire Cinema Grand with WA2 and Musical Fidelity M1 DAC. I had mine modified to add a switch for the pre-outs and a second set of outputs for bi-amping and/or driving my sub.


----------



## Clayton SF

Does anyone still own a solid plate EML 5U4G? It was on loan 2 years ago from TheAudioDude who borrowed it from Seamaster. I've forgotten its sound signature but I remember how big those bottles were back then.


----------



## Seamaster

It is 6.5 inches. Form button of the pins to top of glass


----------



## Seamaster

I sold mine on ebay


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have the WA3 and have quite a bit of experience with the 5998.  In general, the 5998 is more thin sounding compared to the run of the mill 6080 tubes and the run of the mill 6AS7 (G and GA) tubes.  It's strength is in bass extension, impact, and speed.  Paired with some driver tubes, it can sound on the cold side.
> 
> What driver tubes are you running?  This does make a difference.  Also, the suggestion to let it run in is correct.  It takes some time for it to open up and get some tube bloom.  But, if your stock WA3 tube is the 6080, the 5998 will sound less full and warm in comparison.


 
   
  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Ah, yes, sometimes I forget the 5998 gets run in a 6AS7 circuit by most other people.  It doesn't sound thin when you drive it correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, my experience with the 5998 in the DV336i amp is that it's stronger in the bass with more power than the GE 6080 I had, while the GE had tamer bass that worked better with bass-boomy sounding phones (like Darth Beyer, which still sucked).


----------



## roger711

Just got back from the DC Audiofest.  Hangin' with Jack Woo, his cousin Simon and two other guys.  The show ended at 5pm, so as I was leaving to come one, (I live close to the show site), Jack took this tube out of another amp and asked if I wanted it.  USAF 596.  He is said they were old, rare and he only had a few.  He said when they were gone, they're gone.  So i took it.  Just plugged it into my WA6-SE and it sounds fantastic.  Not better or worse then the Sophia Princess it replaced.............just different, but in a very good way.So I will continue to use it and leave the Sophia Princess as a backup.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





roger711 said:


> Just got back from the DC Audiofest.  Hangin' with Jack Woo, his cousin Simon and two other guys.  The show ended at 5pm, so as I was leaving to come one, (I live close to the show site), Jack took this tube out of another amp and asked if I wanted it.  USAF 596.  He is said they were old, rare and he only had a few.  He said when they were gone, they're gone.  So i took it.  Just plugged it into my WA6-SE and it sounds fantastic.  Not better or worse then the Sophia Princess it replaced.............just different, but in a very good way.So I will continue to use it and leave the Sophia Princess as a backup.


 
  What driver tubes are you running with your 596? I noticed that the Sophia performs better with the 6EW7s..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hes my friend, he uses raytheon 6ew7 like me i believe.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





roger711 said:


> Just got back from the DC Audiofest.  Hangin' with Jack Woo, his cousin Simon and two other guys.  The show ended at 5pm, so as I was leaving to come one, (I live close to the show site), Jack took this tube out of another amp and asked if I wanted it.  USAF 596.  He is said they were old, rare and he only had a few.  He said when they were gone, they're gone.  So i took it.  Just plugged it into my WA6-SE and it sounds fantastic.  Not better or worse then the Sophia Princess it replaced.............just different, but in a very good way.So I will continue to use it and leave the Sophia Princess as a backup.


 
   





 Jack Wu - what a classy move! She looks fantastique!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Ahzari, I got caught staring at the photograph...was just fixin' to point out the Drive tube potential. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my view, the 6SN7/596 pairing took me places.


----------



## Xcalibur255

I always enjoy the logo on the base of those 596 tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I always enjoy the logo on the base of those 596 tubes.


 
   
  I'm still waiting to provide you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 with a close up!


----------



## San Raal

I had the chance to pair off my Woo WA5 at the weekend with some nice Audionote speakers, I have to admit that the 596 works better with the amp driving speakers to my ears than the 5U4G mesh does. The bass is definately head and shoulders better on the 596. ymmv
   
  Yeah the logo on this tube is pretty awesome - tube deco art


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I had the chance to pair off my Woo WA5 at the weekend with some nice Audionote speakers, I have to admit that the 596 works better with the amp driving speakers to my ears than the 5U4G mesh does. The bass is definately head and shoulders better on the 596. ymmv
> 
> Yeah the logo on this tube is pretty awesome - tube deco art


 
  I enjoyed hearing about the results. What genre of music did you feature?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ahzari, I got caught staring at the photograph...was just fixin' to point out the Drive tube potential.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I remember, I'm still trying to find a 6sn7 adaptor so I can start tube rolling outside of the 6EW7s/DR7s/FD7s..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The craftsman is back in his studio, in case you want to make a request...


----------



## Xcalibur255

I wish I had kept the pair he made for me, I would've been able to give them to somebody here who'd actually use them.  The person who bought my amp expressed no interest in using them.  They had teflon sockets and were extremely well made.  Glenn went the extra mile for me, as he often does.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Not directly a Woo question but I trust the people on this thread.  I've been using a WHS as my Squeezebox server (and for laptop backups and photosharing) for the past 5 years or so.  Recently it seems like every time microsoft pushes out updates it adversely affects my ability to connect to the WHS.  In fact this last update has somehow made it impossible for me to remote desktop or ping the WHS by name.  I am still able to remote desktop by IP which allows me to start the Squeezebox server ... so I can still use my multiple SB Touches ... and listen to my Woo (see there is a connection).  However I can't get the automatic backup to work anymore or access my shared folders.  I've spent a few hours screwing around with this tonight and not sure I want to spend anymore time on this OS/device which MicroSoft has left for dead. 
   
  Can anyone recommend a good network attached device or other solution as a replacement?  I've been looking into Synology units for the past 20 minutes.  Want something that is quite, reliable, works with Squeezebox server, supports MS and Apple, etc.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions guys.


----------



## 188479

Quote: 





> I'm still trying to find a 6sn7 adaptor so I can start tube rolling outside of the 6EW7s/DR7s/FD7s..


 
  I thought that 6SN7's could not be used with the WA6SE, only the WA6?  Is it possible to use them with a special adapter?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





, yes........and yes. With a properly configured adapter, the former can be achieved with success. On the latter, Jack Wu feels this arrangement is bad (an unhealthy choice) and does not recommend doing it, special adapter or no.
   
  We've yet to hear a specific reason beyond his position against it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Not directly a Woo question but I trust the people on this thread.  I've been using a WHS as my Squeezebox server (and for laptop backups and photosharing) for the past 5 years or so.  Recently it seems like every time microsoft pushes out updates it adversely affects my ability to connect to the WHS.  In fact this last update has somehow made it impossible for me to remote desktop or ping the WHS by name.  I am still able to remote desktop by IP which allows me to start the Squeezebox server ... so I can still use my multiple SB Touches ... and listen to my Woo (see there is a connection).  However I can't get the automatic backup to work anymore or access my shared folders.  I've spent a few hours screwing around with this tonight and not sure I want to spend anymore time on this OS/device which MicroSoft has left for dead.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good network attached device or other solution as a replacement?  I've been looking into Synology units for the past 20 minutes.  Want something that is quite, reliable, works with Squeezebox server, supports MS and Apple, etc.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions guys.


 
   





 Mister Softie (MSFT) giving it to one of my Woo mates again?! Sorry to hear about the inconvenience. Do make sure to stop by over at CA (computer audiophile), if you have not yet done so. You'll be straight in no time!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Mister Softie (MSFT) giving it to one of my Woo mates again?! Sorry to hear about the inconvenience. Do make sure to stop by over at CA (computer audiophile), if you have not yet done so. You'll be straight in no time!


 

 thanks for the nudge ... however I've been reading on the forums over there for a couple of hours and am no closer to straight ... in fact my head is spinning and I should have had dinner and retired to bed a half hour ago ... I haven't found much online that would suggest a NAS as the best solution for a media server (I also stream the occasional movie).  Now I'm wondering if a Mac Mini could server as a media server for my various devices spread around my place while being connected directly to my W4S and Woo for ultimate audio enjoyment (take ultimate with a grain of salt as I don't want to drop mega-bucks on a server that will most certainly be outdated in a few years if not less)!  If anyone has tried running Logitech Media Server (used to be Squeezebox Server) on a mac mini please share your experiences.  Appreciate all comments guys.  Silent One thanks for the help so far!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 CA can have a wealth of info...but fret not. Logitech themselves have a forum on their website and a few of their own techies and perhaps, one of the top officers himself, participate in contributing to enhance user's experiences.


----------



## dgilz

windycitycy said:


> thanks for the nudge ... however I've been reading on the forums over there for a couple of hours and am no closer to straight ... in fact my head is spinning and I should have had dinner and retired to bed a half hour ago ... I haven't found much online that would suggest a NAS as the best solution for a media server (I also stream the occasional movie).  Now I'm wondering if a Mac Mini could server as a media server for my various devices spread around my place while being connected directly to my W4S and Woo for ultimate audio enjoyment (take ultimate with a grain of salt as I don't want to drop mega-bucks on a server that will most certainly be outdated in a few years if not less)!  If anyone has tried running Logitech Media Server (used to be Squeezebox Server) on a mac mini please share your experiences.  Appreciate all comments guys.  Silent One thanks for the help so far!




I have a DS212j synology NAS and I've seen that it features a squeezebox server. I don't use it so I can't tell you more about it, you should check synology forums for more info. 

I use the classic synology audio server : DS audio, it performs very well, works with remote app form an ipad or iphone, and outputs to an airplay device like apple TV, airport express, or else.
I personnally use an airport express with an optical link to my DAC and then to my WA6


----------



## dminches

windycitycy said:


> Not directly a Woo question but I trust the people on this thread.  I've been using a WHS as my Squeezebox server (and for laptop backups and photosharing) for the past 5 years or so.  Recently it seems like every time microsoft pushes out updates it adversely affects my ability to connect to the WHS.  In fact this last update has somehow made it impossible for me to remote desktop or ping the WHS by name.  I am still able to remote desktop by IP which allows me to start the Squeezebox server ... so I can still use my multiple SB Touches ... and listen to my Woo (see there is a connection).  However I can't get the automatic backup to work anymore or access my shared folders.  I've spent a few hours screwing around with this tonight and not sure I want to spend anymore time on this OS/device which MicroSoft has left for dead.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good network attached device or other solution as a replacement?  I've been looking into Synology units for the past 20 minutes.  Want something that is quite, reliable, works with Squeezebox server, supports MS and Apple, etc.  Thanks in advance for any suggestions guys.




I just purchased a Synology DS412+ and I am very pleased with it. It was simple to set up and just as easy to load LMS (new name for squeezecenter). It has more than enough CPU power and ram to run LMS. I also backup up my computer using Acronis True Image. This is a much better box than my Netgear NV+. 

PM me if you have other questions.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I enjoyed hearing about the results. What genre of music did you feature?


 
   
  Didn't have a huge amount of time to tube roll as had a pair of cans and 2 pairs of speakers to dem, but spun Annie Lenox and Fleetwood Mac with the 596.
   
  The bass was really fast and tight coming out of such small cabinets with the 596 slam behind them the bass guitars came through into the room live


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Yay!  Back online again!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Yay!  Back online again!


 
  +1


----------



## cusx

Which Woo amp is perfect with Audio Technica W-1000 ?


----------



## Silent One

We're back, baby!


----------



## WindyCityCy

I ended up ordering a Synology NAS to replace my aging WHS.  Want to thank those on the Woo thread who provided guidance.  Once I get everything working I'll report back how it sounds pumping through the WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Definitely not the most sexy purchase I could have made.  Would have rather purchased Seamaster's WA22.  Gotta keep the plumbing working though or amps and headphones aren't much use ...


----------



## Silent One

Great replacement! Recently, it had become a bit difficult reading those smoke signals from that side the Bay.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

had w5k sounded good with wa6-se. no noise either considering its sensitivity. however besides woo, there are probably better amp choices for the audio technicas.


----------



## redcat2

Woo Woo the order i placed with Woo for 1 matched pair of 6GL7/6EM7 plus one pair of 6GL7->6DE7 Teflon tube adapters, has arrived i have been burning theses tubes in now for 8 hours, i could wax on here telling how the vocals sound like honey dripping on the wings of angles...but what you want to no is this.
  I can now here the breath of the trumpet the lift of the air from his finger been lifted of the trumpet, more sound stage a lot more detail and more air more frequency, when i listed to some classical guitar i could feel the string been plucked, and there is more bass as well not a lot but you here it and controlled.


----------



## lukaskite

Hi!
   
  i have for sale a pair of Tungsol 5998 in great condition if someone is interested link here:
   
  "http://www.head-fi.org/t/619097/matched-pair-5998-tung-sol-in-excellent-condition".
   
  Cheers!


----------



## San Raal

Good to see the thread back on-line. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My Woo WA5 is currently with my dealer for upgrades - based on others success here I'm going to try the Mundorf Silver in Oil as coupling caps in place of the V-caps and Audionote resistors. Also been having some microphony problems, so Im hoping we can identify and fix those also!
   
  Alas this means no Woo for over a month  not sure how i'll cope!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Good to see the thread back on-line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Olympics.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Good to see the thread back on-line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am sure the soundstage from the Olympics opening ceremony will be huge!!


----------



## San Raal

Alas I'm not a huge sports fan, but that soundstage......


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Alas I'm not a huge sports fan, but that soundstage......


 
  As wide as Wembley!


----------



## flaming_june

Too bad the actual pitch is terribad.
   
   
  ughh would love to upgrade to a wa22 soon...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Too bad the actual pitch is terribad.
> 
> 
> ughh would love to upgrade to a wa22 soon...


 
  If you are not running balanced (and at the moment have no intention of running balanced) which Woo would be in the sonic range of the WA22?


----------



## roger711

With the Sophia I am indeed running the the 6EW7, but I am waiting for Jack to send me the 6GL7/6EM7 to use with the 596.


----------



## roger711

I am waiting for a pair of 6GL7/6EM7 to use with the 596.  If someone has a suggestion of a better option, I am open to suggestions.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> thanks for the nudge ... however I've been reading on the forums over there for a couple of hours and am no closer to straight ... in fact my head is spinning and I should have had dinner and retired to bed a half hour ago ... I haven't found much online that would suggest a NAS as the best solution for a media server (I also stream the occasional movie).  Now I'm wondering if a Mac Mini could server as a media server for my various devices spread around my place while being connected directly to my W4S and Woo for ultimate audio enjoyment (take ultimate with a grain of salt as I don't want to drop mega-bucks on a server that will most certainly be outdated in a few years if not less)!  If anyone has tried running Logitech Media Server (used to be Squeezebox Server) on a mac mini please share your experiences.  Appreciate all comments guys.  Silent One thanks for the help so far!


 

 If you have a good network - at least Cat5e if not Cat6 - and a decent GigE router, a NAS should work out just fine.  Try Thecus for NAS box.  They come diskless so you can put your choice of HDD in.  I ran squeezeserver on several of the older Thecus boxes with no issues.  Haven't tried the newest ones, but the company does seem to have a commitment to perfomance.


----------



## Ahzari

So I found a good deal on a Mullard GZ34 (plastic base)... initial impressions - wow. Have never had a rectifier tube make such a impact on audio before, until now every things been subtle. The Mullard brings mids way forward and instruments farther back with a really nice soundstage/3D feeling (Sophia still takes the cake in the bass department though)..


----------



## Silent One

Wonderful! I didn't get a chance to try either of the Mullards, before my Woo slipped off into the distance.._.in the middle of the night._


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> If you are not running balanced (and at the moment have no intention of running balanced) which Woo would be in the sonic range of the WA22?


 
  I can only tell you about what I've read as I've nvr head either.  Ppl say WA2 is the most similar non balanced amp compared to the 22.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wonderful! I didn't get a chance to try either of the Mullards, before my Woo slipped off into the distance.._.in the middle of the night._


 
  Yea its funny because its such a tiny rectifier tube next to the EML, 596, and Sohpia Princess, but it packs a punch.. Not the best for all genres but it was a worthwhile purchase.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Different genres are the reason I enjoy having "Go to" tubes in the shoe box - flexibility. What Drive tubes did you pair the Mullard with?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Different genres are the reason I enjoy having "Go to" tubes in the shoe box - flexibility. What Drive tubes did you pair the Mullard with?


 
  tried them with my 6EW7s, 6DR7s, and 6FD7s, they faired better with the FD7s since they have more bass presence than the EW7s.. it was a good pairing, I just wish the FD7s weren't so noisy, the TH900s pick up on everything coming out of the tubes since their low imp and sensitive.. I have some 6CY7s on the way, after they arrive I'm going to try to do a whole rectifier/driver tube review for the 6SE. Too bad I won't have 6SN7s to try out .


----------



## Silent One

If you keep dilly dallying, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna have to contact Glenn for you...


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If you keep dilly dallying,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  oh please do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 those adaptors would open a whole new range of tubes...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  In-session with Karen Mok...
   
  Ordinarily, I'd keep accessories like those 6SN7>6DE7 adapters. However, my buyer and fellow head-fier came off as good people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wanted to start him on his way. Hit Glenn up and see what he's up to. He just finished a 6SN7>12SN7 adapter for me but I have to find the $$$.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> I can only tell you about what I've read as I've nvr head either.  Ppl say WA2 is the most similar non balanced amp compared to the 22.


 
  Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> So I found a good deal on a Mullard GZ34 (plastic base)... initial impressions - wow. Have never had a rectifier tube make such a impact on audio before, until now every things been subtle. The Mullard brings mids way forward and instruments farther back with a really nice soundstage/3D feeling (Sophia still takes the cake in the bass department though)..


 

 this is a good one.  I have the brown plastic base and really like it.  Of course it and my EML have been cheering on the 596 ever since that big boy saw the playing field.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In-session with Karen Mok...
> 
> Ordinarily, I'd keep accessories like those 6SN7>6DE7 adapters. However, my buyer and fellow head-fier came off as good people.
> 
> ...


 
   
  A 6sn7 to 12sn7 adapter intriguing! Does it team the heater connection of two 6sn7 sockets and put them in parallel across the tubes?


----------



## rosgr63

I think SO meant a 12SN7 to 6SN7 adapter.
  You can actually run a 12SN7 in an amp that uses 6SN7 without an adapter.


----------



## San Raal

I didn't think that you could run 12v tubes on 6v sockets?


----------



## rosgr63

Yes you can, you may not get the best performance out of all 12SN7 tubes but some will perform fine.


----------



## San Raal

Thanks for the tip, I have 2 pairs of 12V TSRP so will give them a try in the Woo.


----------



## Golfnutz

Lost my Recent Activity....


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm back from holidays  Everyone can expect his 596 tracking number very soon!
  Has anyone had any news from Keph? (the 596 adapter guy) He's been missing for 2 weeks online, I'm getting worried


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In-session with Karen Mok...
> 
> Ordinarily, I'd keep accessories like those 6SN7>6DE7 adapters. However, my buyer and fellow head-fier came off as good people.
> 
> ...


 
  Oh yea I did a few weeks back, he said there was a wait list for them so I asked to be placed on that list. No update as of yet.


----------



## schaaf

Hey guys, figured I'd ask this here amongst the Woo owners....
   
  I just picked up an HD650. I'm looking for an amp. I've looked at :
   
  Valhalla
  WA3
  WA6
  Crack.
   
  I wanted to know a couple of different things...
   
  1. Regardless of price, which is the better Woo for the 650s the 3 or 6? The three is obviously an OTL, and I keep reading over and over and over and over that they are better than SET or SS with the 650s. I asked at Woo and they told me that they would choose the WA6 over the 3 just because it's more versatile. Not sure how much of that is them wanting to sell me a more expensive amp or what (I doubt it tho, because the price difference isn't that great.) I don't plan on driving any other headphones with this amp. 
   
  2. Is the Woo 6 overpriced when you take into account that it's going to require (or maybe not...) upgraded tubes and the sophia? I also have read several reviews and opinions that the Valhalla is capable of doing the majority of what the Woo 6 can at a lower price point,and pretty much as well... Now that seems to change when the sophia is involved, but thats a pretty significant purchase to make... And now there is the option to roll new tubes in the Valhalla too.
   
  Anyone care to share any thoughts on this? I'm super stumped from reading so many differing views and opinions....
   
  Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

I was chatting with you in another thread about this, but I'll say it here again to perhaps stimulate a conversation with other users.
   
  I own both the "new" Valhalla and the WA3.  I can say without a doubt the Valhalla is the better amp.  It just has more clarity and control.
   
  So, perhaps your list should be narrowed down to Valhalla, WA6, and Crack with Speedball.
   
  Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Hey guys, figured I'd ask this here amongst the Woo owners....
> 
> I just picked up an HD650. I'm looking for an amp. I've looked at :
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

If I couldn't afford a WA2 for an HD650, I would look into the Valhalla or Crack.


----------



## schaaf

Jay- Yeah. I'm leaning that way, I just wanted to get more information about the differences for the price. 
   
  grokit - The WA6 isn't that great? Or is the WA2 just that much better that its not even worth looking into the WA6? Can you expound on this a little more?
   
  Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

The WA2 is one of the best amps out there.  Period.  But, it is an OTL, so it's not overly great with low impedance headphones.  Also, the best tubes for it are on the expensive side.  It sounds great with cheap tubes, but sounds sublime with expensive tubes.
   
  Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Jay- Yeah. I'm leaning that way, I just wanted to get more information about the differences for the price.
> 
> grokit - The WA6 isn't that great? Or is the WA2 just that much better that its not even worth looking into the WA6? Can you expound on this a little more?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> I'm back from holidays  Everyone can expect his 596 tracking number very soon!
> Has anyone had any news from Keph? (the 596 adapter guy) He's been missing for 2 weeks online, I'm getting worried




Welcome back! Well rested you are, that I am sure of.


----------



## xinque

Hey all, need some help troubleshooting my WA5.  Listened to a few tracks through my laptop -> DAC -> WA5 and I'm getting an intermittent shrill hissing static like sound.  It seems to die down when I lower the volume then raise it back slowly.  Rewound the tracks to where it happened and I don't get the same hiss.  Any ideas if something is wrong with my tubes?  Or is there something with my laptop power, DAC USB, and headphone cables touching or something?


----------



## hodgjy

My WA3 does the same thing.  I've put all kinds of tubes in there to see if it was caused by tubes.  It was not.  I checked all the soldering points, and they're good.  Caps look good to the eye.  I have no idea what is causing it, so if you figure out what is causing yours, I'm interested in knowing.  Maybe it'll help me.
   
  Quote: 





xinque said:


> Hey all, need some help troubleshooting my WA5.  Listened to a few tracks through my laptop -> DAC -> WA5 and I'm getting an intermittent shrill hissing static like sound.  It seems to die down when I lower the volume then raise it back slowly.  Rewound the tracks to where it happened and I don't get the same hiss.  Any ideas if something is wrong with my tubes?  Or is there something with my laptop power, DAC USB, and headphone cables touching or something?


----------



## senson

My WA2 arrived today!

  Thanks To Dubstep Girl for answering all my questions and recommendation
  I thought G-lite was a decent AMP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  My T1 will be here on Tuesday but so far I'm enjoying my DT990 too much!!


----------



## fenom60

Does anyone like to take a pair of matched USAF-596 NOS from me ? $40 each plus shipping. Send me a Pm if you are interested. Thanks


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The WA2 is one of the best amps out there.  Period.  But, it is an OTL, so it's not overly great with low impedance headphones.  Also, the best tubes for it are on the expensive side.  It sounds great with cheap tubes, but sounds sublime with expensive tubes.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Pretty much what *hodgjy* said, meaning it's fantastic with high-impedance headphones like the HD650. I consider the WA2 and WA6SE to be right in Woo's wheelhouse from a price/performance standpoint, so for myself I would also consider a 6SE before a WA6.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Beautiful setup!
  Quote: 





senson said:


> My WA2 arrived today!
> 
> Thanks To Dubstep Girl for answering all my questions and recommendation
> I thought G-lite was a decent AMP
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

I've been enjoying the 990 600 ohms. I love those cans. I need to start saving for the HE-500. I wonder if Ultrainferno has missed his during his vacation.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I think SO meant a 12SN7 to 6SN7 adapter.
> You can actually run a 12SN7 in an amp that uses 6SN7 without an adapter.


 
  Thanks, sir. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's exactly what I meant. And yes you could get by but, you know me, I don't like to dilly dally. So, a heater doubler it is!


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, sir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Would love to see some pics when you receive. Is Glenn taking new orders for adapters? I am hoping to use a Tele EZ80 in place of a 6x5 in my Mapletree.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Thanks for the tip, I have 2 pairs of 12V TSRP so will give them a try in the Woo.


 
  If they test strong and have good life test results they will sound nearly as good as the 6SN7 equivalents.
   
*EDIT* No doubt with Glenn's adapters you'll get the best performance out of the 12SN7, it's the best solution.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Pretty much what *hodgjy* said, meaning it's fantastic with high-impedance headphones like the HD650. I consider the WA2 and WA6SE to be right in Woo's wheelhouse from a price/performance standpoint, so for myself I would also consider a 6SE before a WA6.


 
  AT that price point you also have the Decware CSP2+ or the Taboo. Has anyone ever compared the Woo's to the Decware?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> If they test strong and have good life test results they will sound nearly as good as the 6SN7 equivalents.
> 
> *EDIT* No doubt with Glenn's adapters you'll get the best performance out of the 12SN7, it's the best solution.


 
   
  I'm guessing that the heater emissions will be down and that will contribute to the "nearly". Its a shame more amp manufacturers don't include a simple circuit to switch the heaters between 6v and 12v like Lloyd Peppard does on the mapletree. In his design its a 12V DC heater supply with a switch between running them in series or in parallel.
   
  I am very tempted with the adaptor already given the 12sn7 costs vs 6sn7and that I already have a stash.


----------



## rosgr63

Spot on.
   
  It's a wise move to buy a 12SN7>6SN7 adaptor.
  Some SP's also offered the 12V heater option via an external power supply.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm back from holidays  Everyone can expect his 596 tracking number very soon!
> Has anyone had any news from Keph? (the 596 adapter guy) He's been missing for 2 weeks online, I'm getting worried


 
  I have had three PM sent to Keph the last 2-3 weeks and he has not responded to any of them. We had arranged for him to make an umbilical cord for my WA5, but he has not sent any followups.
  Not sure but hopefully everything is fine with him. 
   
  Rumble


----------



## jdmoorman

I have both the WA6 and the CSP2; they are both very very good.
  When I needed to get an additional amp a couple of years ago, I got another CSP2.
  To me, the WA6 sounded dry and sterile, compared to the CSP2; the CSP2 had a 'magic liveliness' that was missing in the WA6.
  The difference was not profound, but noticeable.
  The performance of both amps are highly dependent on tube selection.
  The comparison was based on the best tube combination I'd found for each amp, at that time.
  The WA6 can drive low impedance headphones better than the CSP2.
  The CSP2 is also pre-amp.
  I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with either one.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jdmoorman said:


> I have both the WA6 and the CSP2; they are both very very good.
> When I needed to get an additional amp a couple of years ago, I got another CSP2.
> To me, the WA6 sounded dry and sterile, compared to the CSP2; the CSP2 had a 'magic liveliness' that was missing in the WA6.
> The difference was not profound, but noticeable.
> ...


 
  I appreciate the comparison. I will be driving HD650's initially with an eye toward adding a Taboo in the future.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just heard from Glenn, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 it's boxed to ship!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Most certainly, I'll shoot a BIG aperture, small aperture, motion-stop, motion blurred and..._upside down?_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best if you sent him a PM 'cause I know he's slowly returning to form (grand form, I might add...), I also suspect he could a bit behind (understatement).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> Does anyone like to take a pair of matched USAF-596 NOS from me ? $40 each plus shipping. Send me a Pm if you are interested. Thanks


 
   
  Thanks for giving the thread a "Heads-up!" Perhaps, not your tea. But curiously, why are they being shown the door so quickly?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





senson said:


> My WA2 arrived today!
> 
> *Thanks To Dubstep Girl for answering all my questions and recommendation*
> I thought G-lite was a decent AMP
> ...


 
   
  Kudos to Dubstep Girl!




  And congrats on your Woo/T-1 pairing. Your summer just got off to bang!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wasn't he set to travel...or travelling? At least this could be the better scenario.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wasn't he set to travel...or travelling? At least this could be the better scenario.


 
   
  Let's hope so!
   
  Here's a nice box full of 596 tubes:
   

   
   
  Too bad not all are in the original box, but that's not that important. Gonna start packing them now and will PM the owners later


----------



## jc9394

Howdy everyone, got lazy not logon for a week and now it is 10 page deep.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Most certainly, I'll shoot a BIG aperture, small aperture, motion-stop, motion blurred and..._upside down?_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Indeed  placed an order today for the ez80 to 6x5  - alas the Woo WA5 cannot accept a 12SN7 to 6SN7 adapter, however its safe to try what I have. Hopefully my dealer will be game to bundle a circuit mod with the Cap and Resister upgrades on my WA5.
   
  All happening of course whilst enjoying Wembley's vast sound stage


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Here's a nice box full of 596 tubes:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad not all are in the original box, but that's not that important. Gonna start packing them now and will PM the owners later


 
   
  Ah, the beauty of them all!
  There's room enough to include some bottles of Belgian beer.


----------



## roger711

I am not going to comment on the amp(s) specifically.  As far as Jack Woo goes.  Yes he is running a business.  But I am a friend and a customer and he is an honorable guy.  He is not going to sell you something he doesn't feel you need.  I am a big fan of the WA6-SE.  I own it with all the upgrades and I saw Jack last week and he gave me a USAF 596.  Can I say the tube sounds better then the Sophia?  No.  I can say it sounds different, but in a better way.  I am leaving the 596 in the WA6 because I like the sound.  Keeping th Sophia Princess for backup.  In addition, I don't feel the WA6-SE is unfairly priced for what you get, even with all the upgrades.  It is allot of bang for the buck.  You are getting a hand made amp that is made for you.


----------



## NOMBEDES

I am planing to purchase a WA6 SE (soon).   Any recommendations for a good DAC in the 600 to 1200 $ price range to go with the new amp?


----------



## hodgjy

Wyred 4 Sound
Musical Fidelity M1 DAC



nombedes said:


> I am planing to purchase a WA6 SE (soon).   Any recommendations for a good DAC in the 600 to 1200 $ price range to go with the new amp?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Howdy everyone, got lazy not logon for a week and now it is 10 page deep.


 
   
  Welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 back, jc9394! I've always known you to enjoy _reverie_, but never _lazy_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, waiting for Xcalibur255 and keph to re-emerge...and re-engage!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My box of goodies from Glenn just shipped! I told him in some ways, waiting for this box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was better than waiting for cake!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great looking pix! (Silent One then mulls to himself _"If this were a crossword puzzle..."_)


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Ah, the beauty of them all!
> There's room enough to include some bottles of Belgian beer.


 
   
  Mmmm Beer!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> My box of goodies from Glenn just shipped! I told him in some ways, waiting for this box
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Mmmm Cake! and new adaptors!
   
  I miss my WA5 already


----------



## musicman59

I just got an email form Jack that my 596 adapters are shipping today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I will take pictures of my WA5-LE with the Woo 6F8G => 6SN7 and 596 => 5U4G adapters when they get here.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> I am planing to purchase a WA6 SE (soon).   Any recommendations for a good DAC in the 600 to 1200 $ price range to go with the new amp?


 
  Violectric V800 - only DAC I might want beyond this would be a Prism Sound DA 2. I have it paired with their V200 hp amp and a WA3+ with Tung Sol 5998 tube. HE-500 and HD600 cans respectively. I am quite happy with this combination giving alternate presentations; very accurate or magically musical. The first pairing is my work kit. The second for recreational listening.


----------



## senson

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Beautiful setup!


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Kudos to Dubstep Girl!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   Thank you 
  I just got T1 today along with W3000ANV(Didn't expect to get it this soon)

   Well I don't think I'll use HD650 and DT990 anytime soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was little worried about T1 and W3000Anv having weak bass, I was wrong!!(I guess I'm not a basshead
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Also W3000Anv is suprisingly good with WA2, I still wanna do back and forth between WA2 and G-lite.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice!


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> I am planing to purchase a WA6 SE (soon).   Any recommendations for a good DAC in the 600 to 1200 $ price range to go with the new amp?


 
  I just received Woo's DAC and CD transport to use with my WA6 SE.  Obviously still in burn-in phase, and only listening to CD's thus far, but oh my it's musical nirvana !!
   
  I have an 08:30 meeting in the a.m. but I just can't turn this thing off


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I understand your excitement...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but not the missing pix! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Throw it up when you've the chance. I can't wait to hear that combo - will likely be at a meet. How's that Vette?!


----------



## Silent One

Any WooAudio amp owners out there using Mac music servers and waiting for kitty tonight (Mountain Lion)? Ok, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 post midnight let's make it...


----------



## DarknightDK

silent one said:


> Any WooAudio amp owners out there using Mac music servers and waiting for kitty tonight (Mountain Lion)? Ok, :rolleyes:  post midnight let's make it...




Didn't realise it's being released tonight. Hope it doesn't screw up with the current music player I have in my mac.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Any WooAudio amp owners out there using Mac music servers and waiting for kitty tonight (Mountain Lion)? Ok,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I had no idea its being released tonight either.. checked the mac app store didn't see any updates for ML.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


ahzari said:


> I had no idea its being released tonight either.. checked the mac app store didn't see any updates for ML.


 
  From what I've just read, they "sometime on Wednesday morning", and being in Cupertino that probably means PST, so it's still a quite a few hours away... not that I'll loose any sleep over it.
   
  We have only recently moved to Lion, and it's still freaking buggy, after the 4th major update (at least Snow Leopard had most thing, esp. networking, sorted out by that time) And never mind the design quirks like trying to re-invent file saving (locked files, revert & duplicate etc, no more save as because the engineers completely failed to understand how pro users work?!?), or the utterly redundant Launchpad.
   
  I'm using it every day, and some things like Mission Control are outstanding once you get used to & leverage them, and most of the annoyances can be turned off, if not all. I'll wait at least until the first "service pack" for Mountain Lion, and most of the apps I have got the Gatekeeper thing sorted and TinkerTool is released with full support for it. Looking forward to the thorough Ars Technica review though.
   
  /end offtopic


----------



## 1audioz

Proud Woo Audio WA2 owner here.
   
  Using them with my Beyerdynamic T1 for a few months now.
   
  Tubes: 2 x Raytheon 6080, 2 x Counterpoint 6922\ECC88, 2 x Tesla EZ80 (all stock supplied)


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Any WooAudio amp owners out there using Mac music servers and waiting for kitty tonight (Mountain Lion)? Ok,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  On order as of today...
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/447585/post-pic-s-of-your-latest-significant-purchase-s-v2-0/2505#post_8554933


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hope I didn't mislead anyone, as I thought they might release the hounds (cats?) after midnight. But since I knew I'd be up ALL night anyway...downloading ML right now @ 0600 hours. Started downloading @ 0545 hrs but the demand out there is holding up the party! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This could take awhile. Breakfast anyone?
   
  Update: One hour out of the gate, not bad. Kitty is already on the couch sipping on some chocolate milk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I awake at lunch time, audio will be the first thing I check!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hope I didn't mislead anyone, as I thought they might release the hounds (cats?) after midnight. But since I knew I'd be up ALL night anyway...downloading ML right now @ 0600 hours. Started downloading @ 0545 hrs but the demand out there is holding up the party!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let me know how it goes, I usually stay away from new release for few days, not fighting for the download traffic.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Traffic - started at 0545 and completed descending the Apple tree at 0645...now installing.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hope I didn't mislead anyone, as I thought they might release the hounds (cats?) after midnight. But since I knew I'd be up ALL night anyway...downloading ML right now @ 0600 hours. Started downloading @ 0545 hrs but the demand out there is holding up the party!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wake up, Woozy heads!
   
  Silent One: Mislead, never! Well-informed, always. Thanks for the early-morning heads-up and an early start on breakfast.
   
  For those of you, myself included, who need to install Mt. Lion on multiple Macs, this is a good read while waiting, waiting, waiting... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
Install Mountain Lion on Multiple Macs


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Traffic - started at 0545 and completed descending the Apple tree at 0645...now installing.


 
   
  I'm more interest what it breaks, just like the last release...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wake up, Woozy heads!
> 
> Silent One: Mislead, never! Well-informed, always. Thanks for the early-morning heads-up and an early start on breakfast.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the head's up Clayton...


----------



## jc9394

Anyone knows if you get a free copy of ML if you have the rMBP?


----------



## Silent One

It's a wrap! 




  Thanks Clayton SF; jc9394 for keeping me company (alert), as I was just starting to get sleepy. And then my install completed, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we're wide awake now and reaching for Abraham Laboriel, Sr. on the Pioneer SX-D7000 & HE-6.
   
  May borrow a WA6SE for further testing in August...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's a wrap!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, I need to give you a visit soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I forgot the actual date but I believe if your Mac was got in June, then you'll receive a free copy. The HiFiMan's are on loan, we ain't got that kind a dough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My second audition with them in fact, since winter.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Good to see the thread back on-line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The cure for Micro-phonic artifacts associated with 300b tubes and speakers is to in-case your amp in a small glass and aluminum box with all wires running out of small holes in the back. You can sound-proof the inside of the box too with sound dispersing foam. Next you have to cope with the heat dissipating issues accounted from having your amp in a box. If you do enough research you'll find out who is doing it right.
   
  Many towns have aluminum builders who make display cases for jewelry. Give them the dimensions, they can make one even with small twin doors in the front. Keeps dust off too.  
   
   
  Some manufactures actually build their amps in boxes for this reason.


----------



## Silent One

ValentinHogea posted this last hour in the 6AS7 tube rollers thread:
   
   
   
 Matched pair WE 421A's
 Tung Sol/Chatham 5998's
 Bendix 6080's
 Sylvania 7236's
 GEC 6AS7G (several matched brown bases)
  
 and more...
   
http://www.ebay.com/sch/retailtechforless/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_from&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2654&_clu=2&_fcid=192&_localstpos&_stpos&gbr=1


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I forgot the actual date but I believe if your Mac was got in June, then you'll receive a free copy. *The HiFiMan's are on loan,* we ain't got that kind a dough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Got the link to the free ML upgrade.  You must have good friends...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> ValentinHogea posted this last hour in the 6AS7 tube rollers thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The GEC 6AS7G's are very reasonable priced.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
_Quick...somebody wake up Dubstep Girl!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good friends? That by itself wasn't enough to get 'em out the door. I say _"Look, jc9394 and I, man we like brothers."_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _"Well then, keep 'em for a month if needed. And make sure you post."_


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good friends? That by itself wasn't enough to get 'em out the door. I say _"Look, jc9394 and I, man we like brothers."_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Planning to visit SF again in Oct/Nov time, let hope you still have it for me to audition.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Odds are better in November than October. This is the worse - getting something new and having to immediately leave home for work, school or.........bed?!




   
  I was just warming it up!


----------



## hodgjy

June 11 is the cutoff date for the free ML upgrade.


----------



## Silent One

All things considered, it's only a JACK$ON. And for me, the upgrade was worth it for audio alone. Playback is so much better than on Lion. One of the first few tracks I played 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stevie Wonder - Higher Ground 24/96 kHz (HDTracks). Deliciously detailed! Mountain Lion/Amarra took my system places, starting with _higher._


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just bought a house, looks like my days of buying gear are over. Luckily I'm more then happy with all the gear I have


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just bought a house, looks like my days of buying gear are over. Luckily I'm more then happy with all the gear I have


 

 Congratulations! I guess that villa in France influenced you, yes?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Well, the pool and jacuzzi did. Your 2013 Europe trip, at my place!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just bought a house, looks like my days of buying gear are over. Luckily I'm more then happy with all the gear I have


 
  Hard to beat the joy of home ownership. Plus you have a place to keep your stuff (I sense a Man Cave!!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Well, the pool and jacuzzi did. Your 2013 Europe trip, at my place!


 
   
  Thanks!
  I'll be there!


----------



## lukaskite

Hi!
   
  If someone is interested i have for sale 4x EZ80 Brimar Black Plate (branded GE) Tubes For Woo Audio 2 In Excellent Condition.
   
  Here:
   
  "http://www.head-fi.org/t/620148/4x-ez80-brimar-black-plate-branded-ge-tubes-for-woo-audio-2-in-excellent-condition"
   
  Cheers!


----------



## musicman59

I got my 596 => 5U4G Woo adapter today.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Here are some pictures of my Black Beauty with the Woo 6F8G => 6SN7 and 596 => 5U4G adapters.
  Power tubes are EML 300B Mesh, Driver tubes are Emerson (TungSol) Round Plates/Black Glass 6F8G and Rectifiers Tubes are USAF 596.


----------



## DarknightDK

Killer setup!


----------



## roger711

I have a WA6-SE and was using the PS Audio Digital Link III DAC.  I am now using the DAC from Woo Audio.  The WDS-1.  If this is for a computer like mine is, with the PS Audio DAc you will need something to convert the USB port from synchronous to asynchronous.  With the Woo DAc you don't.  It does it automatically.


----------



## jc9394

Looks very nice but for some reason I like the one Glenn made.  The base on the Woo adapter definitely more classy, perfectly match your WA5...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I got my 596 => 5U4G Woo adapter today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Absolutely stunning!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Looks very nice but for some reason I like the one Glenn made.  The base on the Woo adapter definitely more classy, perfectly match your WA5...


 
   
  Jack really should be proud on how these came out!


----------



## musicman59

Thanks guys! Another nice improvement was the umbilical cord that our friend Keph made for me based on Neotech OCC copper chassis wire. The ground floor really dropped so the music is coming from a really dark background letting me really listen to every detail. Before replacing it in my WA5-LE Robert from Aphroditecu29.com made one for my Dark Star out of the same Neotech wire and I had similar results.


----------



## grokit

*musicman59*, did the dampers come with the Woo adapters?
  The ones for the 596 match so well...
  Very nice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Thanks guys! Another nice improvement was the umbilical cord that our friend Keph made for me based on Neotech OCC copper chassis wire. The ground floor really dropped so the music is coming from a really dark background letting me really listen to every detail. Before replacing it in my WA5-LE Robert from Aphroditecu29.com made one for my Dark Star out of the same Neotech wire and I had similar results.


 
   
  To get an idea of the material used (Neotech OCC Copper chassis wire) and the fine craftsmanship of keph & Robert, what kind of money am I looking at if I wanted to replace the standard umbilical on the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition?_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> *musicman59*, did the dampers come with the Woo adapters?
> The ones for the 596 match so well...
> Very nice
> 
> ...


 
   
  So nice, some may have looked twice! But I have three computers - simply left the page up on one screen and never stopped looking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Two pieces of candy: In my OTL world, a look at what's possible. Russian 5U8C rectifier w/adapter; 12SN7>6SN7 adapter courtesy of 2359glenn.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Two pieces of candy: In my OTL world, a look at what's possible. Russian 5U8C rectifier w/adapter; 12SN7>6SN7 adapter courtesy of 2359glenn.


 
  To paraphrase Aerosmith..."Tubes keep a rollin all night long..."


----------



## DarknightDK

Just joined the WA22 club thus week and I'm already looking for ways to upgrade the amp. Which upgrade, for those who have experience with this, would provide an immediate improvement in sound quality of the WA22? Upgrade of the amp's internal wiring or the capacitors to V-Cap? 

Would be very interested to hear your recommendations.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Just joined the WA22 club thus week and I'm already looking for ways to upgrade the amp. Which upgrade, for those who have experience with this, would provide an immediate improvement in sound quality of the WA22? Upgrade of the amp's internal wiring or the capacitors to V-Cap?
> Would be very interested to hear your recommendations.


 
  Congrats on the WA22!! What did you upgrade from?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





grokit said:


> *musicman59*, did the dampers come with the Woo adapters?
> The ones for the 596 match so well...
> Very nice
> 
> ...


 
  No. The dampers are Duende Criatura. I could not find them in the right size here in the USA so I ordered them from an European site.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To get an idea of the material used (Neotech OCC Copper chassis wire) and the fine craftsmanship of keph & Robert, what kind of money am I looking at if I wanted to replace the standard umbilical on the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition?_


 
  I will send you a PM.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just got news from Keph's girlfriend, he's ok but he's on a business trip with his dad in a non developed area, so he can not access the www at all. He should be back in the modern world by mid august, for those who are wondering (I know he's been selling adapters and power cables)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just got news from Keph's girlfriend, he's ok but he's on a business trip with his dad in a non developed area, so he can not access the www at all. He should be back in the modern world by mid august, for those who are wondering (I know he's been selling adapters and power cables)


 
   
  This is great to hear! I remember (vaguely) his sharing with us, going on the road...


----------



## DarknightDK

Tung Sol 7236 and 596 coming my way for my WA22. Looking forward to hearing the differences it makes over Syl 7236 and the Sophia 274B.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Two pieces of candy: In my OTL world, a look at what's possible. Russian 5U8C rectifier w/adapter; 12SN7>6SN7 adapter courtesy of 2359glenn.


 
   
  That looks like some really really nicely crafted gear - very pro. Glenn's kit is excellent. 
   
  Have my EZ80 > 6X5 adapter on order, really looking forward to receiving that!
   
  Which amp are you using that's OTL?


----------



## Silent One

Well, that was quick! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You must be connected, DarknightDK..._congrats._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The custom built 6AS7 based OTL amp by 2359glenn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates VT-231/6SN7GT (matched) - Oval Micas (Mid-1940's)
  Tung-Sol 5998's
  United Electronics USAF-596 (1957)
   




   
   
  Update: The aforementioned TS-BGRP's got one foot out the door. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glass with amazing audio quality! I'm simply moving up to the 12SN7 series of drive tubes.


----------



## Silent One

In-session with Bebel Gilberto (Tanto Tempo Remixes)...
   
  I'm up overnight, scheming...........dreaming.........on how to bring a Woo back into my life.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In-session with Bebel Gilberto (Tanto Tempo Remixes)...
> 
> I'm up overnight, scheming...........dreaming.........on how to bring a Woo back into my life.


 
  So what headphones are you hiding in the big black box?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Update: The aforementioned TS-BGRP's got one foot out the door.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Club 12SN7 
   
   
   
   

   
  Love these tubes!


----------



## Sid-Fi

SO, what's that above your W4S dac1?




silent one said:


> The custom built 6AS7 based OTL amp by 2359glenn.
> 
> Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates VT-231/6SN7GT (matched) - Oval Micas (Mid-1940's)
> Tung-Sol 5998's
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> SO, what's that above your W4S dac1?


 
   
  Denon AH-D7000 |  Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - XLR (Balanced w/matching adapter) 
   
   
  FYI: I do own a headphone stand that I bring out during sessions. Otherwise, I keep the cans boxed from dust.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  When I bought my first pair, all was not right with the presentation. So disappointed, I almost willingly accepted the 20% restocking fee! Sometimes in this hobby, it helps to have patience. But the price tag kept poking me in the ribs.
   
  They would eventually get themselves right. And the reward was so good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was suspicious!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Is that a Brick on your DAC?
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> The custom built 6AS7 based OTL amp by 2359glenn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Is that a Brick on your DAC?


 
   





 In hindsight, maybe I should have taken the pix sans headphones...


----------



## Sid-Fi

LOL

I really wish someone had a W4S sound dac locally so I could here it in my chain next to may dac all else equal.



silent one said:


> In hindsight, maybe I should have taken the pix sans headphones...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> LOL
> 
> I really wish someone had a W4S sound dac locally so I could here it in my chain next to may dac all else equal.
> Quote:
> ...


 
   
  Your community is a hot-bed of audio and electronics. Simply starting a thread inquiry would get you there. Plenty of W4S DACs sitting inside from the sun over there.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Two pieces of candy: In my OTL world, a look at what's possible. Russian 5U8C rectifier w/adapter; 12SN7>6SN7 adapter courtesy of 2359glenn.


 
   
  Now thats a cool looking tube.. congrats


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, Ahzari. Just started evaluating it some more @ Midnight. Will spend 3 hours between it and the_ Mighty 596. _


----------



## oldwine

May i know where do you find the EZ80 to 6x5 adapter????
   
  i am also interested in trying it on my WA2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





san raal said:


> That looks like some really really nicely crafted gear - very pro. Glenn's kit is excellent.
> 
> Have my EZ80 > 6X5 adapter on order, really looking forward to receiving that!
> 
> Which amp are you using that's OTL?


 
   
   
   
  wow.... 1500 pages!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> May i know where do you find the EZ80 to 6x5 adapter????
> 
> i am also interested in trying it on my WA2
> 
> ...


 
  To dannie01


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Just joined the WA22 club thus week and I'm already looking for ways to upgrade the amp. Which upgrade, for those who have experience with this, would provide an immediate improvement in sound quality of the WA22? Upgrade of the amp's internal wiring or the capacitors to V-Cap?
> Would be very interested to hear your recommendations.


 
  I would spend a few months rolling tubes before looking at internal mods. There are so many tube combinations to try, you may not feel the need to upgrade the internals right away. Also consider using a balanced source.
  I am however very much interested to hear what others here will recommend regarding V-Caps.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I would spend a few months rolling tubes before looking at internal mods. There are so many tube combinations to try, you may not feel the need to upgrade the internals right away. Also consider using a balanced source.
> I am however very much interested to hear what others here will recommend regarding V-Caps.


 
   
  Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Just joined the WA22 club thus week and I'm already looking for ways to upgrade the amp. Which upgrade, for those who have experience with this, would provide an immediate improvement in sound quality of the WA22? Upgrade of the amp's internal wiring or the capacitors to V-Cap?
> Would be very interested to hear your recommendations.


 
  Hey DarknightDK:
   
  Congrats on your WA22. You will love the amp. Very smooth sounding.
   
  But as nutubes states 1st thing to do is get a balanced source if you don't already have one. I was using the Calyx 24/192 DAC with a mac mini server and it performed beautifully. Don't need balanced headphone cables as it makes no difference on this amp, just the balanced source. FYI there is a Calyx DAC for sale currently with power source (which makes a significant difference) in the for sale forums currently. I would recommend it without reservations.
   
  Rumble


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> I would spend a few months rolling tubes before looking at internal mods. There are so many tube combinations to try, you may not feel the need to upgrade the internals right away. Also consider using a balanced source.
> I am however very much interested to hear what others here will recommend regarding V-Caps.


 
   
  I completely agree with your advise. Well, I'm currently using Syl 7236 / Jan RCA 6SN7GT / Sophia Princess 274B tubes with the WA22 and they sound great with the LCD-3. I also have the Tung Sol 7236 and USAF 596 on the way. Looking to get myself a pair of Shuguang Treasures or Psvane 6SN7s next and I think i'm good.
   
  Quote: 





rumbleripper said:


> Hey DarknightDK:
> 
> Congrats on your WA22. You will love the amp. Very smooth sounding.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I do have a balanced source. Currently using the Ref 7.1 with the WA22 and they sound beautiful together. So far I'm loving the WA22 in my set-up and its the best I've heard my LCD-3 yet. Great detail in the music and tonally very natural. I can almost feel the atmosphere in each recording. I never thought tube amps could sound this good - amazing clarity and soundstage, black background and good, deep bass. I'm now a believer. Simply floored with the WA22.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

The issue I've been having with my 5998s in the WA2 is not as straight forward as I thought. After another tube swap, I started having the loud rapid-fire popping sound issue again... As it turns out, it depends which tube I put in which socket. I also read an article recently explaining that tube issues are not always due to the tubes but sometimes rather the amp, where some tubes may be tolerant of the shortcoming or fault while others are more sensitive (on a per-tube basis)
   
  That seems to be my case, since the issue does NOT move from one side to the other, but one way is perfectly quiet and the other way round has the issue. And the "correct" way round, I can even use the tube that I initially thought was faulty. But it also only happens with the 5998s, not with any of my 6AS7s or 7236s in either L/R position...
   
  Before I contact Woo Audio about this (who have been unusually unresponsive in the past few weeks) I was wondering if anybody else had some experience with this, or some advice or comment. Cheers!


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Separately: I was not too impressed with the 5998's sound even when working correctly, with a couple of different driver tubes (Mullard, Tesla): not quite muffled, and too flabby in the bass (?!) with the LCD-3s. Right now I'm using a pair of very well matched Sylvania 7236s that I initially wasn't impressed by either, but that have now grown on me. Since my WA22 has been slow in the making (over a month now, passing the time frame I was given) I still have some time for more tube-rolling on my WA2...
   
  So: what would be the brightest/tightest combination of tubes that you guys would recommend for the WA2?


----------



## Xcalibur255

Put 50 hours on them.  Your opinion of them will greatly improve.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> May i know where do you find the EZ80 to 6x5 adapter????
> 
> i am also interested in trying it on my WA2


 
   
  Sure, I ordered mine from 2359Glenn here on the head-fi forums. Though I have a sneaky suspicion for a WA2 you'll need 6x5 > EZ80, its the other way around from the Mapletree for which I'm ordering for.
   
  Glenn will set you straight on what you need!


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Just joined the WA22 club thus week and I'm already looking for ways to upgrade the amp. Which upgrade, for those who have experience with this, would provide an immediate improvement in sound quality of the WA22? Upgrade of the amp's internal wiring or the capacitors to V-Cap?
> Would be very interested to hear your recommendations.


 
   
  If you do decide to upgrade your caps I suggest you have a look at the JonL post http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0
   
  I enjoy the Mundorf SIO caps myself, very natural and smooth.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Hard to beat the joy of home ownership. Plus you have a place to keep your stuff (I sense a Man Cave!!..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Negotiations were tough but I managed to get the largest room of the house for me. And I get to put my best gear in the living room too.
  Excellent deal, now I just need to figure what the catch is, I'm sure my gf has it covered somehow...


----------



## Sid-Fi

This may be a preemptive move to soften you up for a subtle, yet notable, closet expansion. I would recommend weekly inventory of at least shoes and handbags for the first couple of months .



ultrainferno said:


> Negotiations were tough but I managed to get the largest room of the house for me. And I get to put my best gear in the living room too.
> Excellent deal, now I just need to figure what the catch is, I'm sure my gf has it covered somehow...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> This may be a preemptive move to soften you up for a subtle, yet notable, closet expansion. I would recommend weekly inventory of at least shoes and handbags for the first couple of months
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let's see, how does this work again? A person takes a mortgage...within a mortgage.......and ends up paying how much over the course of...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 never mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  Just ribbing you some, Ultrainferno.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> This may be a preemptive move to soften you up for a subtle, yet notable, closet expansion. I would recommend weekly inventory of at least shoes and handbags for the first couple of months
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the tip 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Let's see, how does this work again? A person takes a mortgage...within a mortgage.......and ends up paying how much over the course of...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was actually more thinking of selling a kidney 
   
  Clayton('s WA2) will be arriving soon and I still haven't gotten any tubes for it, I'm getting stressed. I was thinking of using:
   
  * 2399 Power tubes
  * Telefunken EZ80 rectifiers
  * Sylvania 7308 Driver tubes or SIEMENS 7308/E188CC (The Siemens, Sylvania & Philips E88CC are 20$/piece more expensive. Worth it?)
   
  Any other (Driver) suggestions before I put in my order? (Can't get the CV versions)
   
  thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Testing the new camera...


----------



## MomijiTMO

Thank god you resized the pics 

D800E. Hmmm juicy.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 - I see you got kind a quiet last week. Must have been buried in the owners manual. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Congrats!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hey JC, which camera be this? Which lens be that? Nice color.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> jc9394 - I see you got kind a quiet last week. Must have been buried in the owners manual.   Congrats!




Have to study before the test (arrival) or I will fail the exam (playing time). It still took me an hour to adjust the setting to my preference.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Hey JC, which camera be this? Which lens be that? Nice color.




Nikon D800E and Nikkor 60mm Macro lens. I waited 4 months for this puppy.


----------



## grokit

Nice shots, JC. If that's a Sylvania 7236 there on the right side of the first pic, then we're running the same tubes in our WA22.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nikon D800E and Nikkor 60mm Macro lens. I waited 4 months for this puppy.


 
   
  Wow! Okay. And what tubes are you using in this camera?  CCa dual triodes?
  Congrats! Really. Where will you be posting your shots? Clue me in--I want to see what this camera can do! It is beautiful.


----------



## Ultrainferno

For all those Electronics Company / 596 lovers, here's a doc I got from the tube guy's 1958 book. Pm me if there's a problem or if you need better quality.
   
  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/95311454/United%20Electronics%20Company.pdf
   
  U.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> For all those Electronics Company / 596 lovers, here's a doc I got from the tube guy's 1958 book. Pm me if there's a problem or if you need better quality.
> 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/95311454/United%20Electronics%20Company.pdf
> 
> U.


 




   
  Life inside the listening room changed dramatically 11 Oct 2011. On that day in history, I inserted the USAF-596 into the Woo.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice shots, JC. If that's a Sylvania 7236 there on the right side of the first pic, then we're running the same tubes in our WA22.


 
   
  It is GEC 6080, I don't like 7236 with HD800.  Did you tried the TS version?  I like it better than the Sylvania, it is very subtle but to me it pair better with LCD-2.


----------



## grokit

I had a TS pair that I didn't quite like as much as the Sylvanias when I listened to them, so I sold them off. But I may have been a bit abrupt with my judgement and I kind of regret selling them


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

I just received my WA22 yesterday.
   
  The 4 pin stereo plug is locked in the Jack..
  Jack said I should have had a Non-Locking Plug for the Non-Locking Amp Jack?
   
  I called Neutrick and spoke to two techs and both said they never heard of a non-locking plug
 I searched the web last night for hours looking for one and all I found was non-locking jacks..
   
  My opinion is Jack forgot to remove the lock on the jack and is now implying its may fault..
 I'd have less of a problem removing the lock if he just said he made a mistake and asked than blaming it on me is now how I feel..
   
  Anyone use the 4Pin XLR and have you ever heard of a Non-Locking XLR Plug?


----------



## grokit

I'm using the 4-pin jack on my WA22 without issue, but there was another new WA22 purchaser that posted with the same problem somewhat recently. It sounds like Woo may have made a change for the worse, as that was the first that I'd heard of it.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> I just received my WA22 yesterday.
> 
> The 4 pin stereo plug is locked in the Jack..
> Jack said I should have had a Non-Locking Plug for the Non-Locking Amp Jack?
> ...


 
  My WA22 uses/has Furtech and Neutrick XLR plugs, on the balanced in cable and balanced out headphone cables. None of them have locks male or female.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm using the 4-pin jack on my WA22 without issue, but there was another new WA22 purchaser that posted with the same problem somewhat recently. It sounds like Woo may have made a change for the worse, as that was the first that I'd heard of it.


 
   
  This incident has happened a few times going back 12 months.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> I just received my WA22 yesterday.
> 
> The 4 pin stereo plug is locked in the Jack..
> Jack said I should have had a Non-Locking Plug for the Non-Locking Amp Jack?
> ...


 
  The female XLR on the cable has the locking release mechanism on the cable itself and you should not be a issue with locking or non-locking XLR jacks . The possible problem is with the male end of the XLR cable which normally has a slot that could lock into the female plug on the amp. I hear of Audeze LCD3 users have their headphones locked into the amp and needed to take the amp apart to release the lock since the WA22 does not use locking release levers on the female XLR's on the amp. I have no idea how wide spread the problem is and if Woo made changes to their female XLR connections on the amp.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/575751/new-audeze-lcd3/3090#post_8048682


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Woo is really starting to piss me off..
  I called today and they sent an email saying staff is out of the office and can't Call..
 They sent a list of what they say are non-locking Neutrick Plugs I should use.. Neutrick told today there is not such thing they know of from any maker..
 Anyway the list they sent, the plug I am using is on the list..
   
  They just sent another email as I am writing this post and said they will re-end my cable because they believe its not working... Wrong Again! Works Fine, just dosen't release.. They keep saying there is no lock on the jack but I can feel its  locked as it move in and out about a 1/16" very easy.. Its not foozen its locked in a non-locking jack??????
 I'm suppose to open it up and push on the LATCH with a small pin...... Push on the latch of the latchless jack ?
 Sounds like they forgot to make it latchless to me..
   
  Just once I'd like things to go SMOOTH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## DarknightDK

This is odd. I don't have a problem using the WA22 with the 4-pin balanced neutrik cable on my LCD-3. Nothing should lock if neither end is non-locking? Try pulling and twisting the plug out. You may have put it the wrong way in causing it to get jammed.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> This is odd. I don't have a problem using the WA22 with the 4-pin balanced neutrik cable on my LCD-3. Nothing should lock if neither end is non-locking? Try pulling and twisting the plug out. You may have put it the wrong way in causing it to get jammed.


 
  I've never had an issue with either the 3pin or 4pin balanced plugs with my WA22 when I owned it. And most had locking mechanisms.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I've never had an issue with either the 3pin or 4pin balanced plugs with my WA22 when I owned it. And most had locking mechanisms.


 
  X2, I use Q Audio, Moon Audio, and Whiplash cables and none have any issues.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, I use Q Audio, Moon Audio, and Whiplash cables and none have any issues.


 
  I've used the QAudio, Silver Dragon, stock HE-6, stock LCD-3, Cardas Gold XLRs (all balanced).


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Thank You All for your support, I appreciate it very much..
  I had a bad week at doctors and this was the icing on the bad week..
   
  I triple checked the plugs when I made the cable for my HD-800s
 Sounds and worked well before this amp, it just doesn't release..
   
  I'll have take time tomorrow and take the amp a part and see whats up.. It just blows my mind that a non-locking jack has a lock I need to push to release the plug according to Woo .. IMHO they forgot to disable it or didn't disable it correctly.. Neutrick told me all male plug will lock and Woo is saying I need a non-locking plug, so someone is wrong..I hope tomorrow Woo will send better info that get a thin metal pin and push on the lock


----------



## grokit

The weird thing about this is that hardly anybody else besides Neutrik makes a 4-pin XLR plug, so there just isn't much if any variation out there.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Thank You All for your support, I appreciate it very much..
> I had a bad week at doctors and this was the icing on the bad week..
> 
> I triple checked the plugs when I made the cable for my HD-800s
> ...


 
   
  Sorry to hear about your woes with Woo. Minor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 in the big scheme of things. Here's to your week improving dramatically outside of audio!


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

I just spent an hour or so and took it a part 
   
  The JACK has a LOCK!
  The plug has an undercut/ groove around the inside of the shell..
  The Jack is plastic and has a sheet metal spring loaded lock..
  As the shell gets pushed it it rocks the sheet metal lock up into the groove and locks..
  I had to use a small screw driver and push in from the back in the hole area above the terminals at bottom of jack..
  I unscrewed all three so I would have a better look see..
   
*Also I thought Fully Balanced Systems has separate ground wires...*
*IE: ground for left and different ground for right.
 All these plugs share the same ground wire..*
   
  Why don't they just use a 1/4" stereo plug?
 I'm not an electrician but looking at the 1/4" plug it uses the same three wires for the balanced jacks not four wires..


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


rocknrolldoctor said:


> I just received my WA22 yesterday.
> 
> The 4 pin stereo plug is locked in the Jack..
> Jack said I should have had a Non-Locking Plug for the Non-Locking Amp Jack? <snip>


 
  Hey, at least you got yours... may I ask when you ordered it? (And you got a reply from Jack too)
   
  In anticipation of mine, I actually had a custom Q cable made that uses a Neutrik connector which does NOT have a hole as in the pic above, only a small notch on the INSIDE of the connector... I sure hope I won't run into this issue...
   
  ADD.: Regarding the "balanced" issue, there are a couple of threads on this in general, and there was one debating the WA22 in particular and ultimately it was shown that it is indeed a fully balanced design, which is not as simple as what you describe. I'll try to find it. Either way, your connector woes notwithstanding, I hope you will get to enjoy the WA22 for its primary function: great sound!
  Update: This thread, and this post in particular, by Jack.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> *Also I thought Fully Balanced Systems has separate ground wires...*
> *IE: ground for left and different ground for right.
> All these plugs share the same ground wire..*


 
  The WA22 isn't actually "balanced". It's bi-amped.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> rocknrolldoctor said:
> ...


 
   
  The discussion (one of many, I'm sure) took place in winter of 2011, where Jack stepped in to try to explain a few things about the design he felt was misunderstood by many that was posting. Jack's reply is Post #38 on 2/7/11.
   
  Update: It starts here in the following thread and quickly heats up: http://www.head-fi.org/t/456258/wa22-internal-pictures


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

I ordered mine June 13th no nothing from Jack for a week or two till I sent an email..
   
  With only three wires running to these jacks and buying expensive cables I have to ask why not just use the stock cable..
 I spent about $80 on connectors and wire and an hour or two making them and it does nothing other than look expensive, I'm thinking now..
   
  I mean there is no need for four wires so the one 3 pin XLR connectors would work are really unneeded for that as the stock cable plug is wired the same as the AMP..
  I feel like I have been sold on a cheap trick.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> I ordered mine June 13th no nothing from Jack for a week or two till I sent an email..
> 
> With only three wires running to these jacks and buying expensive cables I have to ask why not just use the stock cable..
> I spent about $80 on connectors and wire and an hour or two making them and it does nothing other than look expensive, I'm thinking now..
> ...


 
   
  Since you just brought it, you can always return it.  I'm not as upset as you are, I simply buy it because of how it sound with HD800.  So far, I can't really find an amp that I prefer more than WA22.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


rocknrolldoctor said:


> I ordered mine June 13th no nothing from Jack for a week or two till I sent an email..
> 
> With only three wires running to these jacks and buying expensive cables I have to ask why not just use the stock cable..
> I spent about $80 on connectors and wire and an hour or two making them and it does nothing other than look expensive, I'm thinking now..
> ...


 
  Thanks for the info, mine came in after that, seems like the WA22 just takes longer to build than the WA2 I previously ordered (or they are swamped?)
   
  I had this discussion with Steve from Q cable (and other discussions have happened here on HeadFi) No headphone will ever need more than two wires per side, so yes the 4-pin XLR is sufficient (and still a (theoretical) improvement over the regular jack which combines two of the four wires) I guess Woo (and other amp builders!) include the dual 3-pin XLRs for compatibility, no harm done.
   
  Also, there is more to it than the wires soldered to the ports, from the actual design process to the parts used (caps etc., some people will spend even more to replace them...), the much more complex volume control, the hand-wound transformers... And yes, the case probably adds a good part to the price but the same is true for most amp builders if you read a few of the threads discussing cost...
   
  Whether that is worth the asking price is up to the individual... but there's plenty of info available here on Head-Fi (even if it's to be taken with a grain of salt) to allow one to get a better idea PRIOR to putting down their hard-earned cash (like the thread link Silent One and I posted).
   
  And again, rather than fret over these things, I would hook the thing up, grab your favourite beverage, cue up your favourite music and enjoy & RELAX  before making a decision to perhaps return it as per JC9394's suggestion.


----------



## john57

I agree, just enjoy and relax what you have and stop nitpicking.


----------



## fatcat28037

I'd like to see photos of these locking plugs. I have a w22 and don't understand how this can happen.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  X2 on the WA22 preference. It has been explained in painstaking detail by Jack (below) that the WA22 is a balanced amplifier that fully utilizes a balanced source. It can send full power to either set of outputs, but only half of its power when utilizing a single-ended source. It took me a while to fully Grok this, I think I have it right at this point but am open to correction.
   
  I would just add that some headphones respond better than others to balanced cabling, and IME these are usually the headphones that have modular connectors to facilitate an aftermarket cable.
   
  Jack's post, 2/7/11:
   
  "[size=medium]The WA22 is a fully balanced amp, see diagram below.[/size]
 



 
   
[size=medium]The question here is that this amp is not fully balanced because the "amp with a single ended output stage directly connected to the XLR connectors.” It is not true. In an Output Transformer coupled design, the primary and secondary coils are isolated. Output stage and input stage are not connected and thus no cross-talk whatsoever can happen.[/size]
   
[size=medium]On the ¼” output, both channels have independent paths, see the black and red wires.  If this wiring scheme applies to a Output Transformer Less design, the circuit will become single-ended. See the second diagram in #17, the v- would have to be a common wire to other channel.  One must be carefull not to take reference from the wrong context to avoid all the misunderstanding.[/size]
 
[size=medium]Also, no phase splitter is needed because the source is XLR (balanced). As for the RCA input, only ½ of the input is used and the efficiency is roughly dropped 50%. In other words, the RCA input will not take advantage of this design. You must use a balanced source to get the best out of the WA22.[/size]
 
[size=medium]Hope that clarifies.[/size]
 
[size=medium]-Jack"[/size]


----------



## Silent One

Tea for thought ~
   
  Though, I am without a WA22 (no one would sell, feel sorry for me yet?), I do possess a fully balanced source and re-cabled "balanced" headphones (allegedly). And would like to share my brief thoughts on the matter being discussed. Touching on DAC>Amp>Headphone.
   
  At the heart of "Balanced" is achieving Common Mode Noise Rejection. Other than having money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, that's the reason to do it, as I understand it. Also, not all balanced sources and amps are fully balanced in a traditional sense. Some use electronic wizardry. That said, my own DAC is fully balanced. However, my amp is SE. 
   
  Despite my DAC only sending 2.6v in SE mode, I am still benefiting from my DAC's design and achieving Common Mode Noise Rejection. If the 5.2v sent is one of quality, the extra voltage will impart a more favorable sound than it would at 2.6v. And that's ok, because I am still benefiting from CMNR at this time.
   
  Once the amp receives and maintains this signal, mission accomplished. Now, getting to, tapping into and/or outputting this signal to headphones is where imaginations tend to run wild on the subject. Headphones are not balanced - well, in name and symmetry, yes. But, DACs/Amps and headphones are two different things with two different goals and benefits.
   
  With headphones, the goal is reduced Cross-talk and increased channel separation. And generally speaking, because there are always exceptions, XLR options tend to offer a chance at superior connections. This has nothing to do with Common Mode Noise Rejection. In my view, re-cabling headphones can yield improvements. But like running water, everyone's reality will vary.
   
  Can any of these things be measured? Time wasted if not audibly discerned?? These questions and more make for another tea, another post on another day...
   
  That's it! Those are my views in a tea bowl. Which, are subject to change through enlightenment. Besides, where would Head-Fi be without participation and discussion?


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> I'd like to see photos of these locking plugs. I have a w22 and don't understand how this can happen.


 
  I had to take a time out..
  I had a huge head ache after trying to sore all this out...
  I have the image Woo sent me after spec drawing with a red arrow that meant nothing to me..
  Here is the pic  Woo sent me for Non-locking plugs
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=NC4MX

   
  I think these non-locking jacks are the same as a locking jack but missing the outside release..
  You just push into the open space with a flat head screwdriver at the bottom of the jack and it feels just like pushing a release..
  In there is a 1/4" wide piece of sheet metal in kind of a C shape and springy.. I tried removing it all together but didn't what to bugger up the jack so I just compressed downward several time.. In the pic I think the terminals are missing.. Also looks like a different brand but I am guessing thats where the outside release fits if it is used..
   
  I need to end here before I get on a roll again..


----------



## grokit

What's up with these jacks, Jack?
   
  Sorry I couldn't resist


----------



## Silent One

However, we do wanna know!


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Clayton SF

My 596 eyes the 5Ц8C.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Love this picture Clayton.  I didn't know the Decware could use the 596 too.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Love this picture Clayton.  I didn't know the Decware could use the 596 too.


 
   
  Thanks. Yes that tube certainly elevates the Decware amps I own.
  Check out these _other pictures_ of the 5Ц8C tube and Glenn's amp.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 
   
  Great pics! Looking forward to hearing the 596 on my WA22 as well...they're still in transit


----------



## redcat2

Am i out of touch with pricing? Just in case any one is interested in this 274A / B.
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-New-Western-Electric-274A-274B-Engraved-Bass-Rectifier-Tube-valve-NIB-U52-5U4G-/190711103636?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2c67448094


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Am i out of touch with pricing? Just in case any one is interested in this 274A / B.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-New-Western-Electric-274A-274B-Engraved-Bass-Rectifier-Tube-valve-NIB-U52-5U4G-/190711103636?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2c67448094


 
  haha yea I'll be getting that right away..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I didn't drop by 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but let me guess..._"All sales are final."_


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I didn't drop by
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Seven day guarantee and return but you must pay $20.00 postage back.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If it doesn't ship with a Pre-Owned Woo, then...


----------



## longbowbbs

redcat2 said:


> Am i out of touch with pricing? Just in case any one is interested in this 274A / B.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-New-Western-Electric-274A-274B-Engraved-Bass-Rectifier-Tube-valve-NIB-U52-5U4G-/190711103636?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2c67448094




Sorry, if I can't get a matched pair I am not interested...


----------



## grokit

I could pass on my Psvane WE 274B replica for 10% of the opening bid on the real one if anyone's interested. It sounds real nice but I just bought it to try out.


----------



## musicman59

Speaking of Psvane.... Have anyone tried the WE 300B replica yet?


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Speaking of Psvane.... Have anyone tried the WE 300B replica yet?


 
  I have got the Psvane 274B surprisingly better then i expected, it has a good sound, i only have 15 hours on it and sounds better all the time.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Gotta give a shout out to my WA22.  It's been quite awhile since I sat down for an extended listening session.  In fact, I never intended to today/tonight.  Was just doing some User Acceptance Testing now that I have the Synology NAS running Logitech Media Server versus the old WHS that was running Squeezebox server for the past 5-6 years.  I had so many things planned to do with my afternoon but damn those glowing tubes and engulfing soundstage of the HD800s!  I was put in a trance for the past 4 hours ... Cowboy Junkies, Tiesto, Kings of Leon, Mumford and Sons, and Seal ... they all sounded so good.  Just now coming up for air and fighting the urge to plug in the LCD2s ...
   
  May need some intervention to step away from the ledge


----------



## Silent One

No worries... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 watching you from the East bay!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Speaking of Psvane.... Have anyone tried the WE 300B replica yet?


 
   
   
  nos we 300b was around the same price few years back......  anyway, anyone?


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Anyone ever talk with Jack Woo?
   
  They will not answer the phone and I think he is now p[size=medium]urposely acting like he doesn’t understand what I am asking ..[/size]
  [size=medium]I have like 20 emails about fixing my stuck jack as they would never write more than a few lines and never answer my questions..
 Now I would like jack replaced for fixed local and he said he wants to fix it because he says he knows what the problem is..
 He said he would send a Fedex Call Tag for me and now he wants me to pay for shipping back and refund me the money..[/size]
  [size=medium]If I have to send it back to replace the jack I'm at the point he can keep the AMP and refund my money..[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Does he speak English or are they pulling my chain?[/size]


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Anyone ever talk with Jack Woo?
> 
> They will not answer the phone and I think he is now p[size=medium]urposely acting like he doesn’t understand what I am asking ..[/size]
> [size=medium]I have like 20 emails about fixing my stuck jack as they would never write more than a few lines and never answer my questions..
> ...


 
   
  Sorry bud, I have no idea what you're saying either


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Anyone ever talk with Jack Woo?
> 
> They will not answer the phone and I think he is now p[size=medium]urposely acting like he doesn’t understand what I am asking ..[/size]
> [size=medium]I have like 20 emails about fixing my stuck jack as they would never write more than a few lines and never answer my questions..
> ...


 
   
  If I'm you, I will just send it back and get the refund instead.  Jack speaks very well English, I spoke with him multiple times during meets.


----------



## Silent One

With all due respect, the post needs clarity; brevity. It reads like multiple edits - not hard to follow, but not accurate either.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Anyone ever talk with Jack Woo?
> 
> They will not answer the phone and I think he is now p[size=medium]urposely acting like he doesn’t understand what I am asking ..[/size]
> [size=medium]I have like 20 emails about fixing my stuck jack as they would never write more than a few lines and never answer my questions..
> ...


 
   
  I am so sorry to hear what you're going through. Jack has always answered my emails. Sometimes it takes a few days but he has always helped me out whenever I've had a question. I know so little about how tube amps work but I know when something is not right. Sometimes Jack goes to big meets and might not get back to you immediately. Good luck.


----------



## Silent One

I've sent Jack messages many of time at Midnight, only to hear from him via Twitter a couple of hours later around 5am est. Late night or early start for Jack? Either way, it's impressive! I will add, however, I understand rocknrolldoctor's frustration. Where a response doesn't land the manufacturer and customer on the same page.
   
  I hope our fellow member is able to hang in there a bit longer so the best solution is reached.


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

I called him on the phone when I was tired of trying to email him, only to get an email the next day saying
  "[size=medium]Just ship it back and you make no phone calls and try to explain the problems. Your local repairman may not know what to do. We know exactly what to solve to problem. [/size][size=medium]I can create a call tag for FedEx.[/size]"
   
  The next email says I should pay for shipping and they will refund me $30..
   
  He says one thing then changes it in the next email or goes off asking about something that makes think they have no idea even what my problem is..
   
  To make this easy for both of us I asked them to send me a replacement jack and $30 to have it replaced local..

 He says things like:
   
  [size=medium]"It struck me as it is not working. You can mail the cable and plugs to us and we can re-terminate your 4-pin cable to 2 3-pin plugs. [/size]
  [size=medium]We will make a revision in near future to fit a 4-pin XLR with a latch on it. This will require a redesign of the faceplate in order to fit this connector.[/size]
  [size=medium]At this point, please remove the phone jack by pushing it on the back of the socket."[/size]
   
  [size=medium][size=medium]"We can also make a custom faceplate to fit a latch type 4 pin XLR connector."[/size][/size]
   
   
  [size=medium][size=medium]Never saying who is paying for these custom parts and always implying its something I used is the problem..[/size][/size]
   
  [size=medium]I want a jack I can use my working 4 pin plug in without getting stuck ever few days..
 If I need to change the 4 pin Plug FINE but he sent me a list of plugs to use and my plug is one of the plugs on the list..
 I don't want two 3 pins plugs, I don't want a new faceplate and a locking jack either..[/size]
  I want this jack to work as it should..

 I was hoping to do it the easy way and fix the problem local, Get the replacement jack and $30 to help defray the repair cost without having to ship the amp back..
 Plus at first he told me I was using the wrong locking plug and it should have been a non-locking plug.. Neutrick says there is no such thing.. All plugs are locking plug according to Neutrick..

 I hate when people blame me for something they did or didn't do..
 I can not imagine how someone could have a amp custom made by Jack Woo
 I'd rater try pulling hens teeth..


----------



## Norway

I have a stock WA6-SE (with stock tubes) which I love, especially when it's warmed up to the point where even the knobs are warm. It sounds so dynamic with the D7000s my mind just melts in the music. I will get the WA22 or WA2 in the near future for sure, I'm just concerned that the WA2 would clip with my LCD2 rev. 2s.
   
  With respect to customer service at Woo I always get a reply, but they miss some of my questions at times. Like if I make a bullet list with 5-6 questions, it's not uncommon that they forget to respond to 1-2 of my questions. I say they, because it's not just Jack who responds to mail. I've only been in contact with them with pre order questions, so I don't know about after sales questions.
   
  I think that this little company has grown excessively, in part due to all the excellent reviews here on head-fi. They should make a FAQ for each product, and maybe even consider a support forum if their customer base is big enough to support something like that. Look at how Audeze has done it with their ticket system for instance. I can only imagine how much time they spend on replying to emails every day. They should streamline some of their customer interaction in exchange for faster lead times imo. At present their lead time is 3-4 weeks (+ shipping). When I ordered WA6-SE i waited for 8 weeks (including shipping which was ~10 days).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





norway said:


> I have a stock WA6-SE (with stock tubes) which I love, especially when it's warmed up to the point where even the knobs are warm. It sounds so dynamic with the D7000s my mind just melts in the music. I will get the WA22 or WA2 in the near future for sure, I'm just concerned that the WA2 would clip with my LCD2 rev. 2s.
> 
> With respect to customer service at Woo I always get a reply, but they miss some of my questions at times. Like if I make a bullet list with 5-6 questions, it's not uncommon that they forget to respond to 1-2 of my questions. I say they, because it's not just Jack who responds to mail. I've only been in contact with them with pre order questions, so I don't know about after sales questions.
> 
> I think that this little company has grown excessively, in part due to all the excellent reviews here on head-fi. They should make a FAQ for each product, and maybe even consider a support forum if their customer base is big enough to support something like that. Look at how Audeze has done it with their ticket system for instance. I can only imagine how much time they spend on replying to emails every day. They should streamline some of their customer interaction in exchange for faster lead times imo. At present their lead time is 3-4 weeks (+ shipping). When I ordered WA6-SE i waited for 8 weeks (including shipping which was ~10 days).


 
   
  For your LCD-2s, the WA6SE is the better solution over the WA2. But the WA22 would be the choice between all 3 amps.


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> For your LCD-2s, the WA6SE is the better solution over the WA2. But the WA22 would be the choice between all 3 amps.


 
  Yeah, I'm aware of that. I've heard that LCD2 rev. 1 and LCD3 is a better match with WA2, because the rev.2 is less efficient than the other two.
   
  That is not to say the WA22 is not better, but if you read ardilla's excellent review of WA2 VS WA22 you see that he emphasizes some qualities about the WA2 + Audeze that is quite intriguing. I'm not sure if I'm correct about this, but my impression is that the sound signature of the WA6-SE and the WA22 are similar, whereas WA6-SE/WA22 and WA2 is quite different.
   
  I'm currently in contact with a person who wants to sell a pair of LCD2 rev. 1, and I have a WTB out for the LCD3s. From what I've read (but never heard) the qualities of those models resonate better with my taste in sound signature (but I do love the rev. 2s too).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





norway said:


> Yeah, I'm aware of that. I've heard that LCD2 rev. 1 and LCD3 is a better match with WA2, because the rev.2 is less efficient than the other two.
> 
> That is not to say the WA22 is not better, but if you read ardilla's excellent review of WA2 VS WA22 you see that he emphasizes some qualities about the WA2 + Audeze that is quite intriguing. I'm not sure if I'm correct about this, but my impression is that the sound signature of the WA6-SE and the WA22 are similar, whereas WA6-SE/WA22 and WA2 is quite different.
> 
> I'm currently in contact with a person who wants to sell a pair of LCD2 rev. 1, and I have a WTB out for the LCD3s. From what I've read (but never heard) the qualities of those models resonate better with my taste in sound signature (but I do love the rev. 2s too).


 
   
  Did you read my WA2/WA22 review: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/562618/woo-audio-wa2-and-wa22-comparisons-finally-finished-whew


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Did you read my WA2/WA22 review:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No, but I sure will now. Thank you!
   
  Edit: Ardilla; if/when you see this, please link to his review/comparison from your review(?)


----------



## Ultrainferno

I got got 2 Philips miniwatt EZ80 tubes. One turned out to be labelled Philips, and the other is a Miniwatt made in Brazil. The Philips one has a ring getter (was made in the '60s in Germany and the other one has a square getter with a Sao paulo Brazil factory code. See pic below. Can I use these safely together in the WA2?
   
 
   
  Thanks for the help!


----------



## Clayton SF

How to bag a WA2.
   
  I will be on a flight to Amsterdam tomorrow afternoon to deliver Ultrainferno my portable amp system with no power source and no tubes.
   
  Security: What's in the backpack?
  Me: What backpack?


----------



## longbowbbs

Tell security you are a newly formed import/export business. 1st delivery gets personalized service...


----------



## Silent One

*O* Clayton, you're good! Have yourself a great flight and BIG fun! In your absence, I'll be receiving the voltage quadrupler & Brimar 13D1 tube from Glenn. You may wanna log on
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just to make sure I haven't passed out next week.


----------



## Ultrainferno

My 339 and Crack are looking forward to new competition


----------



## Silent One

A post Olympic throwdown! I hope you enjoy the Woo experience.


----------



## DarknightDK

Anyone has any experience with the Psvane CV181 driver tubes with their Woos? How does it compare to the Shuguang Treasures?
   
  Thinking of getting a pair for my WA22 but not sure of the synergy of the Psvanes with the LCD-3.


----------



## keph

I am ALIVE !!!
   
  First let me apologize for everyone who was looking for me and waited for the 596's adapters and Umbilical Cable. I went for a trip with my Dad to a place where people don't even know what a computer is, But i am back now to provide you all with the converters and Umbilical Cable. 
   
  For now i'm in Singapore now for a few days and will be going back to Indonesia, Jakarta for 1-2 weeks and then back to Beijing at last.
   
  So if anyone is still interested in the 596's Converter and the WOO Umbilical cable will have to wait 2 weeks time till i get back to Beijing.
   
  Please send me a new PM about the 596's converter and the Umbilical cable. I am assuming that Setamp will still be able to provide the US distribution of the converters to reduce the shipping cost.
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## keph

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How to bag a WA2.
> 
> I will be on a flight to Amsterdam tomorrow afternoon to deliver Ultrainferno my portable amp system with no power source and no tubes.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Did you go to the gym to prepare for this?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  any chances that you will be heading to China


----------



## Clayton SF

L.
I made it past security. They did however pull me aside to have me open my backpack and do a pad swipe to test for explosives. The guard asked me what it was and I said a stereo. She asked me what kind of stereo. I said it was just for headphones. She said that all she buys are earbuds. I said some guys buy expensive cars, I buy expensive headphones. She said that she buys expensive shoes. There you go!

-C


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> L.
> I made it past security. They did however pull me aside to have me open my backpack and do a pad swipe to test for explosives. The guard asked me what it was and I said a stereo. She asked me what kind of stereo. I said it was just for headphones. She said that all she buys are earbuds. I said some guys buy expensive cars, I buy expensive headphones. She said that she buys expensive shoes. There you go!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Phew! I figured it was going to be harder than that.


----------



## rosgr63

Sensible woman!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just the other day, my sophia tube on my WA6-SE had sparks coming from the 2 wires inside the mesh plate (happens near the bottom of the plate), it only happened once when music played (sparked a bit and then kept playing music like normal), and now it sometimes happens when it turns on. also the sophia runs a little hotter than usual.
   
   
  it still sounds the same and everything, but it never happened before and i'm a little worried, is it normal for tubes to do this or is my tube/amp dying on me ?


----------



## Silent One

Sorry to hear about your new found experience with Miss Sophia (potentially). I'd rather learn it was the tube misbehaving than your amp.


----------



## NOMBEDES

Dubstep.  This cannot be good.  email Jack Woo.  And get some electrical fire suppression equipment.  err...soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Sensible woman!


 
   
  Chic, too!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> I am ALIVE !!!
> 
> First let me apologize for everyone who was looking for me and waited for the 596's adapters and Umbilical Cable. I went for a trip with my Dad to a place where people don't even know what a computer is, But i am back now to provide you all with the converters and Umbilical Cable.
> 
> ...


 
   





 To a valued member, welcome back!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

k sent jack an email, gota wait now


----------



## MomijiTMO

It's called arcing. I wouldn't be too worried unless its doing it all the time. Most likely to happen on power up.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah it just happened once while music was playing but then it stopped.
   
  it doesn't happen all the time only on start up a little bit and that one time.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Arc over will significantly shorten the life of the tube.  It's because it is receiving too much inrush current on startup.  This has been an ongoing debate with some of the Woo amps.


----------



## MomijiTMO

^ And there will be no fix. Design flaw .


----------



## Silent One

I have been fortunate. My Woo never saw a light show...2,599 hours without incident of any kind, for that matter. Amp design considered, maybe a replacement Sophia fares better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Then too, the _Mighty 596_ lurks on the horizon as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah it just happened once while music was playing but then it stopped.
> 
> it doesn't happen all the time only on start up a little bit and that one time.


 
  This will continue to get worse until the tube finally burns out. Each time it arks it knocks off some of the oxide coating on the filament/cathode making the
  tube weaker. As the tube gets more oxide knocked off the cathode it has less airier for emission so it has less to handle the inrush.
    I know that the WA5 and WA22 have a problem with to large a input capacitor after the rectifier causing it to do what yours is doing. not sure about the WA6.
  That is why I came up with the 596 if I were you I would remove it and use a 5AR4/GZ34 it can handle the inrush better.


----------



## MomijiTMO

This is why I don't _want_ to get any fancy rectifiers for my future WA5LE.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





momijitmo said:


> This is why I don't _want_ to get any fancy rectifiers for my future WA5LE.


 
   
  The USAF-596 @ $40 a pop (ok, and up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) - a pair of these and your audio rig will be _down the street! _


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The USAF-596 @ $40 a pop (ok, and up!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you find 10 new buyers, I'll do another sale


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> This will continue to get worse until the tube finally burns out. Each time it arks it knocks off some of the oxide coating on the filament/cathode making the
> tube weaker. As the tube gets more oxide knocked off the cathode it has less airier for emission so it has less to handle the inrush.
> I know that the WA5 and WA22 have a problem with to large a input capacitor after the rectifier causing it to do what yours is doing. not sure about the WA6.
> That is why I came up with the 596 if I were you I would remove it and use a 5AR4/GZ34 it can handle the inrush better.


 
   
  I had this happen to a Sophia mesh on my WA5. It would glow purple and arc at startup. Eventually the fuse blew and the plates were scorched black. The amp seems to have suffered no ill effects. I had always assumed the tube was slightly gassy.
   
  What is the typical input cap the 596 can handle? I couldn't find the 596 datasheet on the web.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





san raal said:


> What is the typical input cap the 596 can handle? I couldn't find the 596 datasheet on the web.


 
   
  I only have this and I posted it before in this thread: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/95311454/United%20Electronics%20Company.pdf:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, this will be helpful. When owning a tube amp, one can never have too many options. WooAudio amp owners would be wise to at least audition this tube. I've already sent one of my own USAF-596's out on tour w/adapter. I'm considering a second tour. And if I need an additional 10 buyers for Champagne Truffles, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll let you know that as well.


----------



## DarknightDK

I'll be interested in the 596 tubes if there's a mass order.


----------



## Silent One

_Some piece of glass_...I'm even enjoying the USAF-596 with a custom built OTL amp!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I have been fortunate. My Woo never saw a light show...2,599 hours without incident of any kind, for that matter. Amp design considered, maybe a replacement Sophia fares better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Me too. The only tube issue I've ever had was when I was _aggressively rolling_ and my EML 5U4G blew out. But a lot of those tubes were blowing back then, hence the subsequent re-design(s). In that case, no harm because I was able to get a free replacement as I bought it new.
   
  My only other tube-related "issue" is all the $ I've missed out on by either not pulling the trigger or by doing so too quickly, as it seems there's always a better deal around the corner on these old light bulbs!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've sent Jack messages many of time at Midnight, only to hear from him via Twitter a couple of hours later around 5am est. Late night or early start for Jack? Either way, it's impressive!


 
   
  I just now got a reply from Jack. I sent him an email yesterday and he replied already, must still be night there


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  0500 hours in New York...fast approaching sunrise. I admire his work ethic. I'm highly interested in meeting this cat! Someday...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  After following the issue of the EML rec's early demise (kaboom!) and talking at length with George (good guy, by the way...), I decided to wait several months and a couple of re-toolings before making the purchase. I had sticker shock to begin with. Once the Glass started shattering across living rooms every where, I really decided to hold on to my money! 
   
  At the time, I ended up with the latest revision, Winter 2011. But when the _Mighty 596 _showed up later that Autumn, the EML Glass got sent to the locker room anyway!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





san raal said:


> I had this happen to a Sophia mesh on my WA5. It would glow purple and arc at startup. Eventually the fuse blew and the plates were scorched black. The amp seems to have suffered no ill effects. I had always assumed the tube was slightly gassy.
> 
> What is the typical input cap the 596 can handle? I couldn't find the 596 datasheet on the web.


 
  The 596 can handle it better even though it really is the same as a 5U4GB The big thing with the WA5 is the fact that the rectifier filaments are in series running off 10 volts
  These filaments are not rated for series operation. This diagram is what Woo audio sent to Jac at *jacmusic* and his recommendations on fixing the problem but not the fact
  that the tubes are in series.

   
   
   Also the 596 has a more exact filament so they handle being hooked in series in a WA5.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jack says its probably deteriorating and should be ok until the sound quality gets bad.
   
  guess i'll have to get ready to buy a spare soon. 
   
  also any comparisons with the 596 vs the princess? i heard that the 596 doesn't have much bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 that would be bad cause the grado, lcd-2, and denons need moar bass.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> jack says its probably deteriorating and should be ok until the sound quality gets bad.
> 
> guess i'll have to get ready to buy a spare soon.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmmm i cant say that i have the Princess but i do have the Full Music 274b..I prefer the 596's though, and imo the 596's have more bass than the 274b.
   
  in terms of sound
  The 274b is a better tube if you like a wider sound stage and a crispy highs.
  The 596 sound is much warmer, tighter bass and has more mids than the 274b


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> jack says its probably deteriorating and should be ok until the sound quality gets bad.
> 
> guess i'll have to get ready to buy a spare soon.
> 
> ...


 
  You really can't tell with the 596 until you try one for your self tubes sound different in different amps. Plus the 596 is cheaper if you can
  find one. And will last forever.


----------



## Silent One

Still sleepy...but...did I just wake up to hear the USAF-596 doesn't have much Bass?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A lot of time has passed in between rectifiers, but I remember enough. As an owner of the _WA 6 Special Edition_, I started out with the Sophia Princess, then turned to the EML 5U4G and ended my run with the USAF-596. 
   
  I agree with keph's description but would like to add _more details; depth _into the sound stage - front/rear & in between notes.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> jack says its probably deteriorating and should be ok until the sound quality gets bad.
> 
> guess i'll have to get ready to buy a spare soon.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Guess I'm one of those that hears the decrease in bass between the the 596 and the sophia using the same driver tubes..
   
  To my ears the 596 is on the more neutral side, maybe more detailed, but my system is already detailed enough so minor changes arent noticeable - my preference out of all the rectifiers I have tried: EML 5U4G/Mullard GZ34/RCA 5U4G/USAF 596 is the _Sophia Princess 274B_ its really the overall winner to my ears in terms of musicality, it may not have the mids of the GZ or the soundstage of the EML or the minor bump in detail and neutrality of the 596, but it has the best bass in the bunch, warm/sweet treble, and the nicest look/glow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..
   
  That said I really wanted to like the 596 more as I did with the EML but they just never added enough to dethrone the Sophia _for me._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

kk so thats why the 596 is popular, the detail. 
   
  thanks, i guess im just rebuying sophia since i liked it alot too. jsut sounds right to me with enough of everything to keep me happy without it steering to much into any one direction and missing too much of anything else.
   
  maybe the recent bad weather/power surges/spikes that have happened had something to do with the tube getting damaged. i was listening to music once on it and the power went out and then came back on, the tubes where on. maybe that had something to do with it?
   
  i hope i don't have to replace my other tubes, like my sylvanie 6ew7, even though those are cheap.


----------



## MomijiTMO

What worries me is that Australia has such as harsh power grid. :/ Oh well, I can always buy a pair of Princess 274Bs and see how long they last......


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just placed the order for a new one


----------



## Silent One

I'm glad Ahzari stopped by to lend his experience with the recs and drive tubes, which is similar to your setup. On the other side of your two listening rooms sat my experience - I ran 6SN7 series shortly after buying my Woo. All things considered (front-end; source; cable & accessories), Miss Sophia & USAF-596 pushing 6SN7 series returned a different experience. The USAF-596 brought not just better details, but better depth and better quality Bass.
   
  I did enjoy Bass with Miss Sophia, as I listen to a lot of Jazz, Zydeco and African music. Her presentation was warm and friendly with enveloping Bass. The '596' a bit more aggressive, quicker, tighter and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




striving to hit me upside my big head! This can be striking when listening to percussion, where the quality of Bass plays a key role.
   
  Happy to hear DSG will be getting a replacement.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just placed the order for a new one


 
   
  It'll be ok. Autumn is 'round the corner and you'll really wanna be set indoors with some good music.


----------



## MomijiTMO

silent one said:


> Happy to hear DSG will be getting a replacement.




I read that to say DSG is buying a new one.


----------



## keph

I just love the combo of the 596 with 6DR7 Tubes, With the FM274b i like it when paired with 6FD7 for more bass and 6EW7 for normal listening sessions..haven't tried putting 6SN7 with my 6SE though..people say 596 + 6SN7 is the way to go..


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just placed the order for a new one


 
   
  why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? you should be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. Btw congrats on the order...


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It'll be ok. Autumn is 'round the corner and you'll really wanna be set indoors with some good music.


 
   
  Arghh wish summer was a bit longer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. Winter here could reach up to -15c 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..but nvm i got lots of tubes to heat my room haha


----------



## MomijiTMO

It's winter in Australia. A not so cold 8C this morning . Hot weather all the time here lol.


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





keph said:


> Arghh wish summer was a bit longer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 We are just at the end of winter here in Qld Australia it was really cold this year got down to 4c deg that is cold for here.


----------



## keph

Between 4c-8c is just the right temp for winter for me..-15c makes me want to cuddle on my bed and play other things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 rather than sitting and listening to Headphones..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The heating system in my building is horrible, or its just me where i really come from (Indonesia) where 365days we have 30c+ and suddenly -15c 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> I just love the combo of the 596 with 6DR7 Tubes, With the FM274b i like it when paired with 6FD7 for more bass and 6EW7 for normal listening sessions..haven't tried putting 6SN7 with my 6SE though..people say 596 + 6SN7 is the way to go..


 
   
  When I first introduced the Tung-Sol BGRP's to the USAF-596 on a blind date, it was rough going. Neither wanted to see the other ever again, let alone getting along while I still had them together. A few weeks and a few changes later...now I can't seem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to separate them!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> jack says its probably deteriorating and should be ok until the sound quality gets bad.
> 
> guess i'll have to get ready to buy a spare soon.
> 
> ...


 

 596 has plenty of bass!  I have EML, 596, and a couple of others.  I put in 596 with Sylvania 7236 tonight with my LCD2rev1 and the Bass was making my head throb with NIN and Nick Warren.  Great combo.  Can't believe I waited so long.  I also tried the TungSol 5998 and they were crap with the LCD2 ... too sterile and not at all to my ears' liking.  I do like my GECs with the LCD2 (and everything else) as they are so smooth ... I haven't taken the GECs out of the WA22 for probably a year until tonight.  That said 7236 takes LCD2 to a new level.  All of these tests were with the 596.  I got a couple of those on SilentOne's suggestion and my EML has been resting on the sidelines ever since.  I do like the EML (maybe even a little more) but the 596 is so close and cool looking that I really haven't wanted to take it out.


----------



## Silent One

No shortage of Bass over here either, both Transformer-Coupled & OTL with the '596'@ bat!


----------



## keph

This is why i ordered another pair from Ultra so total i have 2pairs of 596's opps 1 broke though makes me wanna cry if i remember that...
   
  nowdays mostly i use my 596 rather than my FM274b and TS5U4G...


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> If you find 10 new buyers, I'll do another sale


 
   
  I'm in for a pair for my WA2...


----------



## spagetka

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 596 can handle it better even though it really is the same as a 5U4GB The big thing with the WA5 is the fact that the rectifier filaments are in series running off 10 volts
> These filaments are not rated for series operation. This diagram is what Woo audio sent to Jac at *jacmusic* and his recommendations on fixing the problem but not the fact
> that the tubes are in series.
> 
> ...


 
  What a coincidence - a week ago I had email exchange with Jack about this issue with first large input cap (I had used EML 5U4G/GZ34 and now I am using stock Russian 5U4G with very nice results). I'd love to try direct heating rectifier like 5R4G or 274B becuase it warms up my WA5 much faster then GZ34 which leads to better sound (for headphones it is quite OK but for speakers it is quite obvious). But it is rate 4uF(5R4GY)/32uF(5U4G)/60uF(GZ34).
   
  Jack's answer:
  [size=11pt]You have no issue of using any of the mentioned rectifiers. Many of our customers use these tubes in the WA5 in daily basis.[/size]
  [size=11pt]There was a revision of the EML 5U4G last year which makes this tubes more durable.[/size]
   
  The thing is that I am not willing to spend money on tubes which will die within short period of time.
   
  Is adding resistor the only way to avoid such problems?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I'm in for a pair for my WA2...


 
   
  596 in a WA2? Is that even possible?


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 596 in a WA2? Is that even possible?


 

 I don't know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I just want to try something different.  And, anything "mighty" must be good, right?  I rely on you guys to let me know if what I'm considering is appropriate for WA2!
   
  This is what I have now:


   
   
  Sounds pretty good (still room to improve, though) through my 650s but runs out of power via pre-outs.  Also, they are lacking in bass and punch/dynamics via pre-outs.
  I have been looking for the TS5998 (that the one you suggested, Silent One?), but keep missing them when I can find them listed.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm glad Ahzari stopped by to lend his experience with the recs and drive tubes, which is similar to your setup. On the other side of your two listening rooms sat my experience - I ran 6SN7 series shortly after buying my Woo. All things considered (front-end; source; cable & accessories), Miss Sophia & USAF-596 pushing 6SN7 series returned a different experience. The USAF-596 brought not just better details, but better depth and better quality Bass.
> 
> I did enjoy Bass with Miss Sophia, as I listen to a lot of Jazz, Zydeco and African music. Her presentation was warm and friendly with enveloping Bass. The '596' a bit more aggressive, quicker, tighter and
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I forgot to mention that but totally agree, the 596 has a faster presentation than the SP. I hope to some day have the opportunity to try the 6SN7s with the 596  I think that would be a nice pairing but with my current _main_ listening tubes - 6FD7s - I liked the SP the most. I think the GZ is also a great rectifier to have in the arsenal, it brings a completely different presentation that works really really well with some vocal tracks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It did catch my attention. Sitting atop adapters,_ that'd be wicked. _Fortunate for me, my OTL will accept a '596.'


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Absolutely. Miss Sophia was at her best for me with the original RCA 6EW7's driving. When I brought the EML Glass in, I couldn't believe how much the stage shrunk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, I felt it offered a slightly more refined presentation than the Princess once I moved up in class (6SN7). 
   
  Speaking of which, this week sees me moving up in class yet again, for my custom OTL amp - 13D1/25SN7/1633. I'm also trying to find money to buy Glenn's 12SN7 voltage doubler as well. I hope to find a TS-BGRP 12SN7 for about $35-$40 ea. Premium tubes are now soooo much cheaper for me.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It did catch my attention. Sitting atop adapters,_ that'd be wicked. _Fortunate for me, my OTL will accept a '596.'


 
   


 So, it would be worth pursuing?  Then, yes, I am in!  Any suggestions for adapters?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





seehear said:


> So, it would be worth pursuing?  Then, yes, I am in!  Any suggestions for adapters?


 
   
  Mail Jack and find out, but EZ80 to 596? I don't think so, and I even think there's not enough room for the tubes on the WA2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup, the supplies of TS5998's are slowly drying up! And what's being found could be considered leftovers, based on reports of quality from buyers. Still a few options worthy of your selection I hear and can be found in this thread or this site.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  True story --
   
  When I saw Clayton SF post a pix of the USAF-596 for the very first time, I was so enamored by its looks, I decided to buy one on the spot. Didn't matter if my Woo would be able to use it or not. I wanted it for my collection.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Mail Jack and find out, but EZ80 to 596? I don't think so, and I even think there's not enough room for the tubes on the WA2


 
   
  +1 it might not have the space for the Monster...


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Mail Jack and find out, but EZ80 to 596? I don't think so, and I even think there's not enough room for the tubes on the WA2


 
   
  Jack's not answering my emails lately.  We can't agree on the usefulness of a switch he added that turns off the headphone output of my WA2.  I wanted a switch for the pre-outs. Instead, I have a switch (on the back of the amp) for the headphone socket.  I'm not seeing the value; he can't understand why...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Jack's not answering my emails lately.  We can't agree on the usefulness of a switch he added that turns off the headphone output of my WA2.  I wanted a switch for the pre-outs. Instead, I have a switch (on the back of the amp) for the headphone socket.  I'm not seeing the value; he can't understand why...


 
   
  Use a different email address


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Time for a _Dog & Pony Show_ - create a short slide presentation to show what you want, but what you got instead. And send it. Images can sometimes help.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Absolutely. Miss Sophia was at her best for me with the original RCA 6EW7's driving. When I brought the EML Glass in, I couldn't believe how much the stage shrunk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  thats awesome, congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheap/amazing tubes are a dream that not everyone can bring to fruition..!


----------



## MomijiTMO

spagetka said:


> The thing is that I am not willing to spend money on tubes which will die within short period of time.
> 
> Is adding resistor the only way to avoid such problems?




How short is short?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I don't know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You might try the 6x5 its electronically close with the EZ80. Has an octal base so an adapter will be in order, I think the max cap value differs slightly and the DC current output is 70mA down from 90mA though so a mail to Jack is in order
   
  My Mapletree uses 6x5 natively. Glenn whipped up an EZ80 adapter for me, and using a Telefunken EZ80 atm, its simply awesome with the U4SE.
  Next adapter on the list here is the 6SN7 to 12SN7 - I learnt my WA5 has the heaters wired parallel when modded recently (Did a happy dance at that point)


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Time for a _Dog & Pony Show_ - create a short slide presentation to show what you want, but what you got instead. And send it. Images can sometimes help.


 

 I wish that would fix it.  Jack knows exactly what I expected and what he ultimately delivered.  Initially, he delivered the amp with the correct switch configuration.  However, there was a lot of noise, oscillation and general weirdness.  After a lot of denial and attempts at blame shifting, they decided their modification was at fault.  Good news right? That's what I thought when Jack told me they had identified the problem and "fixed it." 
   
  The unnoticed clue that something was amiss: Instead of telling me to pay for the modification by paypal after I took the amp home (as he did after the first attempt to implement the requested mod), he asked me to bring cash when I picked it up.
   

 I get it home and discover a new tube set - not simple replacement of the faulty tube ( this whole modification came about because I had to return the amp anyway due to noise that was eventually traced to a bad tube - it lost vacuum and eventually separated from the base).  Again, more good news, right?  Mostly yes. Imaging is even better, soundstage is deeper and wider.  Only downside is less punch and, via pre-outs, much less gain.  But, noise free!
 Now, the bad news - I tried to turn off the pre-out and nothing happened! I call Jack and then he drops the bomb.  It seems I was the first to request a switchable pre-out and they couldnt get it to work.  So they decided to switch the headphone socket instead, not tell me of the change, and ask for cash before I could listen - after telling me it was "fixed."  There was no confusion regarding what I wanted.  He just realized they couldn't deliver and wanted the money anyway.  I have had repeated conversations with Jack via phone, email and in person trying to amicably resolve this.  I suggested several scenarios where I would be happy, in descending order of preference: (1) Fix it as originally agreed; (2) Give me different sounding tubes to play with  or (3) refund the charge for the failed modification.  The only response I got was when I saw him at the Capitol Audiofest where he offered me a $25 dollar discount on a set of tubes! 
   
  Most recently (last week), I resent him the original email describing the modification I wanted (I keep copies of everything!) and reiterated the above stated scenarios as ways to resolve that may be mutually acceptable.  So far, no response.
   
  I am mostly offended by his duplicity.  He knew I wasn't getting what I paid for and purposely didn't tell me until after I paid him, in cash, and discovered their failure on my own.  Then he was very communicative about why it wasn't as requested and how I could continue to go through the same steps I had gone through some expense and considerable incovenience to avoid in the first place!  A solution he had assured me verbally, and via email, would be no problem to implement (tellingly, when I asked him what possible value there could be in a switched headphone socket he didn't respond.  It was as if I had not asked the question).  The money is annoying, but it is the deceit, inconvenience and total disregard for my time and effort for what turns out to be a completely stock amp with a useless switch and badly aligned extra pre-out that bothers me the most.
   
  However, after almost four months, and four round trips to Queens and Brooklyn, there has been no apology, let alone an offer of any type to make me whole inspite of my repeated attempts to keep it friendly and polite.  Oh, wait.  He did offer me a $25 discount on a 250 dollar pair of tubes.
   
  This is what a Woo Audio factory modification looks like.  Note the expert drilling of the pre-out. The switch does nothing useful and I have never even tried the pre-out as I still have to walk to the sub and power amp everytime I turn the Woo on or off anyway.


----------



## DarknightDK

It's unfortunate to hear of such complaints of Woo's customer service. They have great products but unfortunately, they are really lacking in service standards which may potentially put customers off their products for good.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Sorry to hear about your issues SeeHear.
   
  Woo installed a preamp right and left RCA out set on the back of my Woo 5LE during construction process a few years ago. It works fine. The end of this is that they may be better off and start making the amps ( like many manufactures do) one way only and not doing any custom work. I may have tried to reach the company during quieter times a year or two ago, but Jack always responded the next day with the e-mails.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This achievement will allow me to resume focus this autumn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on buying groceries.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues SeeHear.
> 
> Woo installed a preamp right and left RCA out set on the back of my Woo 5LE during construction process a few years ago. It works fine. The end of this is that they may be better off and start making the amps ( like many manufactures do) one way only and not doing any custom work. I may have tried to reach the company during quieter times a year or two ago, but Jack always responded the next day with the e-mails.


 
   
  I agree with your assessment. Streamlining or the elimination of menu options can help many businesses from food to electronics. WooAudio could could still offer standardized custom options based on popularity. Take Pre-Outs for example - WooAudio could prefab the housing on a few pieces, then when amps are returned for the electronic wizardry, voila! Because even if SeeHear's amp was in good working order post mod, it is still aesthetically challenged - cutout and placement does not match original craftsmanship.
   
  I think the community would feel much better if this were resolved with a positive outcome. I remain standing in solidarity with my Woo mate!


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

I'm left with only one option with my WA22 thats to return it even though I like the sound very much..
  After several emails Friday Woo sent and email saying he has no idea what I am asking for..
  I asked two or three times for a Replacement 4 Pin Jack and $30
 He had said in the email I was right and he should fix the problem..
  I replied I am not going to state what I want again and I will do as you wish and send amp back for repairs..
  I did say I don't want the face plate changed and locks added just repair the jack to work correctly..
   
  I expected an email yesterday and still nothing today..
   
  I also have been hearing POPING while listening and I have changed cables and headphone and keep hearing it..
  I am so sad that I fear adding this problem into the mix at this point..
   
  Anyone have any idears on poping and what I should do?
  My head hurts if I try to think this through at this point.
  Thank Much..


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

FYI I have used my WA22 for a few days now with dual 3-pin XLRs (with a little notch on the inside of the connector) on my Q-cable with no issue. Maybe you were just unlucky to get one with maybe a bent lock pin that got stuck. As far as the popping sound goes, that may be tube-related (I have had my own woes tube-rolling on the WA2) If it's on one side, try swapping the tubes left-right and listen if it moves, that's one way to check.
   
  Sorry you are having so much trouble with it, but if Jack proposes to fix it himself, why not just send it back and see how it goes, with or without locks (I think it would look pretty cool)? I know it sucks, I got my rather pricey DAC and it was DOA, the designer helped me with some troubleshooting but to no avail. I had to return it and wait for replacement/fix, all the while doubting if it was worth the trouble. But it turned out it was and I'm enjoying it now trouble-free pretty much every day....


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I agree with your assessment. Streamlining or the elimination of menu options can help many businesses from food to electronics. WooAudio could could still offer standardized custom options based on popularity. Take Pre-Outs for example - WooAudio could prefab the housing on a few pieces, then when amps are returned for the electronic wizardry, voila! Because even if SeeHear's amp was in good working order post mod, it is still aesthetically challenged - cutout and placement does not match original craftsmanship.
> 
> I think the community would feel much better if this were resolved with a positive outcome. I remain standing in solidarity with my Woo mate!


 
   
  SO, thanks for your support 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have to say, I agree too.  Given all the problems I have experienced, I should have left it stock and avoided all the inconvenience and ill will.  It does sound good and seems to work just fine now that it is, essentially, a stock unit.
   
  Still no response from Jack as of 8/15/12 at 7:30 AM.


----------



## Silent One

With WooAudio subscribed to this thread, I can't help but think there'll be a positive outcome.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With WooAudio subscribed to this thread, I can't help but think there'll be a positive outcome.


 

 I remain hopeful...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, Woo's service department has issues, and there are communication issues as well. I am happy that they agreed to modify my WA22 into a preamp, it sounds great but there were definitely some head-scratchers. They installed two switches in the rear of my amp, one to switch between sources and one to go from pre to headamp. I knew that it would be like that going in, but I do wish the switches were more accessible. I also have to insert a special 1/4" trs plug into the SE output when in pre mode to "avoid an open circuit". It's a small, vital part that's easy to misplace, another inconvenience that makes me wonder if there's better ways to perform these mods.
   
  The thing that got me though, was the fact that the amp cam back with a loose faceplate and misaligned knobs on the front, one of the faceplate hex screws was completely out and rattling around in the plastic shipping bag. When I informed Jack, his response was, "[size=11.0pt]Sorry to hear the problem. This is odd. We did not touch the faceplate at all. All works were performed on the rear panel and inside the amp. Let me know if you have trouble tightening the screws. As aligning the volume knobs, you can lose the screw in the knob. It is a M4 hex machine screw. I can send you a hex wrench if you can’t find one.[/size]"
   
  When I Googled: "M4 hex driver", the only thing that came up was a ball-headed tool, and the vendor didn't ship to my location. After I told Jack that_ the faceplate obviously didn't unscrew itself_ (and left it at that), I took him up on his offer as I was having a hard time sourcing one. He send me a simple allen wrench.




   
  I'm still glad I had the work done, as I read (in this thread?) that they aren't doing the WA22 preamp mod anymore so it seems that mine was the last one. It's too bad that the service department has such shortcomings, and I agree that they may be better off just making amps and not performing mods if the situation can not be improved.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> The 596 can handle it better even though it really is the same as a 5U4GB The big thing with the WA5 is the fact that the rectifier filaments are in series running off 10 volts
> These filaments are not rated for series operation. This diagram is what Woo audio sent to Jac at *jacmusic* and his recommendations on fixing the problem but not the fact
> that the tubes are in series.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks Glenn, Im new to Valve PSU's (Disclaimer the stuff I post here probably isnt right ;P ) I see that by using the secondary centre tap that the heater potential across both bottles should be the same.
   
  However, wouldnt putting a current limiting resistor change the B+ out and change the sonic signature of the amp, depending on its value. Would it not be better to simply drop the value of the first cap?
   
  Cheers


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Thanks Glenn, Im new to Valve PSU's (Disclaimer the stuff I post here probably isnt right ;P ) I see that by using the secondary centre tap that the heater potential across both bottles should be the same.
> 
> However, wouldnt putting a current limiting resistor change the B+ out and change the sonic signature of the amp, depending on its value. Would it not be better to simply drop the value of the first cap?
> 
> Cheers


 
  Yes putting in a resistor will lower the B+ voltage changing the sound of the amp.  This was EMLs cure for the problem but the tubes are still in series and 5U4s are not meant
  to be run that way new or old NOS. Even lowering the input capacitor is going to lower the B+ voltage requiring a higher voltage transformer to keep the amp sounding the same.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Yes putting in a resistor will lower the B+ voltage changing the sound of the amp.  This was EMLs cure for the problem but the tubes are still in series and 5U4s are not meant
> to be run that way new or old NOS. Even lowering the input capacitor is going to lower the B+ voltage requiring a higher voltage transformer to keep the amp sounding the same.


 
  Thanks Glenn
   
  I was under the impression that the Woo 5 had a "soft start" circuit of some sort that was indicated by a blue pulsing power LED. That this then turned solid blue once the amp was ready to use.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Thanks Glenn
> 
> I was under the impression that the Woo 5 had a "soft start" circuit of some sort that was indicated by a blue pulsing power LED. That this then turned solid blue once the amp was ready to use.


 
  That's my undrestanding too.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Thanks Glenn
> 
> I was under the impression that the Woo 5 had a "soft start" circuit of some sort that was indicated by a blue pulsing power LED. That this then turned solid blue once the amp was ready to use.


 
  It does it is shown on the center tap of the transformer the resistor with the contacts across it. when the amp is turned the relay contacts are open and
  the filter capacitors have to charge through the resistor.  This is good but it still shouldn't be running like that what if the power drops out for a second.
  Woos timer circuit doesn't reset right away so no the rectifier gets woped and arcs over.


----------



## MomijiTMO

Thanks for the info lads! I was getting a bit nervous.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> It does it is shown on the center tap of the transformer the resistor with the contacts across it. when the amp is turned the relay contacts are open and
> the filter capacitors have to charge through the resistor.  This is good but it still shouldn't be running like that what if the power drops out for a second.
> Woos timer circuit doesn't reset right away so no the rectifier gets woped and arcs over.


 
   
  Ah I see, this explains why in other posts folks are having problems with brown outs and the WA5. Thanks for taking the time to explain this Glenn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thankfully brown outs aren't common where I live.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Look what I found in Amsterdam. Oh yeah, Clayton SF was there as well. Had a great time with him having beer, talking and having dinner.
  Really great day, great guy and best Head-fi'er ever because he gave me his WA2 for a year. C you're the best!
   
 
   
  Now let's see how this amp holds up against the 339 and Crack...


----------



## Silent One

To Clayton SF & Ultrainferno


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Look what I found in Amsterdam. Oh yeah, Clayton SF was there as well. Had a great time with him having beer, talking and having dinner.
> Really great day, great guy and best Head-fi'er ever because he gave me his WA2 for a year. C you're the best!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's nice.  The more I see silver WA2s, the more I regret my last second decision to go with black.  Mine looks nice, but such a dust magnet!  What tubes are those?


----------



## Silent One

From: "Woo Audio" <wooaudio@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:24 PM
 To: Silent One
   
  Subject: RE: Maintenance/Appearance
   
  You can use water based metal cleaner/polisher like the Twinkle or even just
 a wet towel would do the job.





   
  What's significant about the date of this transmission is 9 July, 2011 was my Woo's 1 year anniversary. So, I asked Jack how could I get my amp dolled up!


----------



## Ultrainferno

For the moment it are 5998s with siemens branded, Philips ECG made owned by Sylvania 7308 (still following?) and mullard EZ80. But I'll have to change some, the sound isn't to my liking yet and with the HD650 there's humming. It looks awesome though, been using it as a preamp for the 339.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my new sophia 274b. huge differenvce vs. the old one. the one im using right now is all darkened up now at the mesh and the glass is darker too. might put some pics up later.  also noticed my raytheon 6ew7 might have a bit of wear too, i'll just use the sylvania 6ew7 though, they should sound the same right?
   
   
   
  also heard some of the new headphone offerings that my best buy has (had to buy a cheap pair for a friend) and i had a chance to hear the HD 558, K550 again, and a few of the audio technica ones.
   
  i was most impressed with the hd 558, i was surprised at how good they are for their price, they sounded REALLY good for their price and had more bass than i expected.
   
   
  taking a break from any audio-related purchases, although still have my eyes on the HE-500 (the money for that went towards an ambulance bill though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Ultrainferno

A member PM'ed me about a new 596 sale, is anyone else interested?


----------



## MomijiTMO

Interested.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> A member PM'ed me about a new 596 sale, is anyone else interested?


 
   
  me too. I'm in.


----------



## Silent One

Sweet Home Chicago...
   
  ...say it ain't so! Hope you're ALL better now (PM to come and quick!). Glad to see you restored your Princess, Dubstep Girl.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hopefully, members will provide an indication - single, pair...quads.


----------



## MomijiTMO

Pair for me  How much $$$ are we saying farewell to here?


----------



## Silent One

_Farewell_...that's a great way to see it!


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Its been seven days since I replied to the Woo Audio  email and still no reply..
   
  I though maybe he was busy and I would give them time..
  He said he would fix the amp and pay shipping and all I asked for was a new jack and $30 and he said he wants to fix it as he feels the new jack will not cure the issue of the plug getting stuck..
   
  I am tired of going back and forth trying to understand what they are talking about so in last email I said
 FINE, I will do as you wish return the amp to you for repair..
   
  Still waiting for Fedex Call Tag..
   
   AMPs Good
  Service Nightmare


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hopefully, members will provide an indication - single, pair...quads.


 
   
  What he said. Or pm me


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wait, what?! I just put a DVD in the tray to watch for the morning - _audio session resumes tomorrow night_ - and I may have missed what you're referring to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Okay, see you on the other side...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I mean that you are right. People who are interested should pm me or state here how many they want. As soon as we have 10 I'll contact my contact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  (those interested can pm me for a price & shipping cost confirmation)


----------



## Silent One

Looking back at your post, it looks more clear, what can I say.._.enjoyed the movie._


----------



## lolovitch

Hi everyboby

The wait is over! My new WA22 arrived ten days ago and has now a couple of hours of music behind it! 

I am liking every second of it. Actually even better than expected! Previously using the headphone jack from my NAD C375, this is a radical change for much better. Instrument separation and soundstage are just unbelievable.

Also the look is so impressive (silver), even the wife likes it.

Just happy, thought I would share with you. Going back to music now.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lolovitch said:


> Hi everyboby
> The wait is over! My new WA22 arrived ten days ago and has now a couple of hours of music behind it!
> I am liking every second of it. Actually even better than expected! Previously using the headphone jack from my NAD C375, this is a radical change for much better. Instrument separation and soundstage are just unbelievable.
> Also the look is so impressive (silver), even the wife likes it.
> Just happy, thought I would share with you. Going back to music now.


 
  Congrats! What a big upgrade..


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





lolovitch said:


> Hi everyboby
> The wait is over! My new WA22 arrived ten days ago and has now a couple of hours of music behind it!
> I am liking every second of it. Actually even better than expected! Previously using the headphone jack from my NAD C375, this is a radical change for much better. Instrument separation and soundstage are just unbelievable.
> Also the look is so impressive (silver), even the wife likes it.
> Just happy, thought I would share with you. Going back to music now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 There's a time for tea. But when your_ love_ shares in your joy, only French bubbly will do.


----------



## Pettnolf

Finally got my upgraded Woo GES!
   
  Very well packaged and well built. Feels very solid. Tidy wiring inside also.


   
  It is being fed from the metrum octave and it sure is making my SR-009 sing 
   
  Very happy with woo audio.


----------



## Silent One

Your Metrum, Woo, Stax makes for a wonderful ensemble...congrats!


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





lolovitch said:


> Hi everyboby
> The wait is over! My new WA22 arrived ten days ago and has now a couple of hours of music behind it!
> I am liking every second of it. Actually even better than expected! Previously using the headphone jack from my NAD C375, this is a radical change for much better. Instrument separation and soundstage are just unbelievable.
> Also the look is so impressive (silver), even the wife likes it.
> Just happy, thought I would share with you. Going back to music now.


 
  Congrats man.  My dad actually just ordered the WA22 with all the tube upgrade options.  He's a speaker guy and this is his first foray into the headphone world since he had his old Yamaha ortho's back in the day.  I'm very anxious to hear it when it arrives at his house.  But, at the same time, I *don't* want to hear it because I'm sure it far outclasses my Lyr, and will just make me want to upgrade lol.


----------



## redcat2

Looking at buying another woo amp a WA5 LE what are your thoughts, i will be keeping the WA6 SE.  What is the main difference do you think between the two is it the correct next step up?


----------



## Silent One

I can't wait for WA5/LE owners to weigh-in...      And if Jack Wu were smart, he'd throw in a Teddy Bear @ purchase.


----------



## Swatcsi

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Looking at buying another woo amp a WA5 LE what are your thoughts, i will be keeping the WA6 SE.  What is the main difference do you think between the two is it the correct next step up?


 
  Im thinking about getting a WA5 as well but I'm not exactly sure how the parts upgrade effect the amp, anyone care to way in?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

most people seem to be satisfied with the parts upgrade in terms of SQ improvement. haven't seen much comparisons though. of course, even considering WA5/WA5-LE and the price of such a system, you might as well get the very best parts


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 went further, having his WA5-LE internally custom wired with Neotech wiring...he'll be along sometime in the morning.


----------



## MomijiTMO

redcat2 said:


> Looking at buying another woo amp a WA5 LE what are your thoughts, i will be keeping the WA6 SE.  What is the main difference do you think between the two is it the correct next step up?




Why not wait for our meet. I'll have one then.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





momijitmo said:


> Why not wait for our meet. I'll have one then.


 
   
   
  yes and you'll know you won't ever need your wa6 again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and do a search, i think someone compare wa6 and wa5 before.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





swatcsi said:


> Im thinking about getting a WA5 as well but I'm not exactly sure how the parts upgrade effect the amp, anyone care to way in?


 
   
  Currently burning in Mundorf Gold Silver in Oil coupling caps and Audionote tantulum resistors in my already Woo trixed WA5. Ill let you know in a few weeks 
   
  One word of caution on the WA5 and its price, unless you plan to run stock don't forget to factor in a 300B upgrade when you buy, they don't come cheap!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> musicman59 went further, having his WA5-LE internally custom wired with Neotech wiring...he'll be along sometime in the morning.


 
   
  i got the wa5 with no upgrade because not that i don't believe in the parts or wiring or anything like that, it's only because a)my source is far from perfect so i'll use the money to upgrade the source first, the tubes as well and b)the dealer here told me i can always upgrade later


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





san raal said:


> One word of caution on the WA5 and its price, unless you plan to run stock don't forget to factor in a 300B upgrade when you buy, they don't come cheap!


 
   
   
  it's true but, i thought, most nos tubes, 6080 for example is much more expensive these days. or all tubes are expensive overall.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> it's true but, i thought, most nos tubes, 6080 for example is much more expensive these days. or all tubes are expensive overall.


 
   
  NOS 300B redefine the class "expensive" but yeah agree its down to dwindling supply and increasing demand.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Looking at buying another woo amp a WA5 LE what are your thoughts, i will be keeping the WA6 SE.  What is the main difference do you think between the two is it the correct next step up?


 
  They do sound grooovy!


----------



## MomijiTMO

I've got enough money aside for amp sized tube purchases .


----------



## musicman59

[size=medium]I have not made a direct comparison between a stock WA5-LE and an upgraded one.[/size]
  [size=medium]When I was looking at buying a Woo amp I was thinking on the WA22 since my system is fully balanced. I had the opportunity to compare the WA22 and WA5-LE with my own T1 headphones at the 2010 CanJam.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]After listening to them and talking to Jack it was clear to me that the WA5-LE was the way to go.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I have always been a believer that your sound will be as good as the weakest link in your system chain. I do believe quality parts and wiring make a difference so I decided to go all out with the exception of the RK50 pot since it was another $700.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I went with the Teflon sockets, parts upgrade and I convinced Jack to let me send him the Neotech OCC Copper wire and Cardas Eutectic solder. I also upgraded the RCA connectors to WBT Nextgen.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]The tubes I ordered from Jack a pair of EML 300B Mesh, a pair of EML 5U4G Mesh and a pair of the Treasures CV181Z drivers. I did not like the Treasures and sold them.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Right now my favorite combination of tubes is the EML 300B Mesh, USAF 596 and 6F8G round plates/black glass.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]The last upgrade I have done is the umbilical cord. I went from the stock to one made for me by our friend Keph based on Neotech OCC solid copper wire. I was able to notice and increase in dynamics and cleanness in the sound with the new cord. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]Looking in retrospective I would have been probably better getting the WA5 instead of the LE but back them the HE-6 were not out yet. The LE does a good job with the HE-6 out of the High Impedance output (it probably has more current) but I truly believe they will benefit from the extra power out of the K1000 output of the WA5. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]I love my WA5-LE the way it is now. Last night I listened to it and my HD800 and switch to my SRM-727II and SR-009. To be honest IMO the WA5-LE/HD800 combo is very close to the level of detail and soundstage of the electrostatic rig and probably has deeper bass.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]If you would have to sacrifice the upgrades to go to the WA5 then then the LE with upgrades but if you have the money to do all and you own or thinking about getting the HE-6, LCD2/3 or any other inefficient headphones I would go with the WA5 with the upgrades.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I hope this helps.[/size]


----------



## DarknightDK

Why would the WA5LE be a better choice over the WA22 for a fully balanced configuration? I don't believe the WA5LE is balanced?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Why would the WA5LE be a better choice over the WA22 for a fully balanced configuration? I don't believe the WA5LE is balanced?


 
  No the WA5-LE is not balanced but it is a better amplifier and to me it sounded better than the WA22 then in a comversation with Jack he confirmed the WA5-LE is a better sounding amp. He mentioned the reasons but it was 2 years ago so I can not rember them clearly. Not becuase an amp is balanced means it will be better than a sigle ended amp. It all depends of the design and its implementation.
   
  One thing I can tell you, I was going for a balance amp and end up buying a single ended one not careing it was more expensive because the sound was that much better IMO. My amp end up costing about $5,500 plus the Neotech wire and Cards solder.


----------



## MomijiTMO

Balanced amps get way too much of a rev up here.


----------



## 188479

> Currently burning in Mundorf Gold Silver in Oil coupling caps and Audionote tantulum resistors in my already Woo trixed WA5.


 
   
  So for you guys that go for an aftermarket upgrade of caps, who do you get to do the work?  Is it something you do yourselves?  I would be very interested in getting some Mundorf Silver (or gold silver) caps in my WA6SE...but I really don't think I'm up to installing them myself!


----------



## 188479

> The last upgrade I have done is the umbilical cord. I went from the stock to one made for me by our friend Keph based on Neotech OCC solid copper wire. I was able to notice and increase in dynamics and cleanness in the sound with the new cord.


 
  Was just talking to Keph today and he is going to make one for me.  Also ended up getting a few NOS tubes from him (as if I needed any more)...looking forward to trying it out.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Was just talking to Keph today and he is going to make one for me.  Also ended up getting a few NOS tubes from him (as if I needed any more)...looking forward to trying it out.


 
  You will be pleasantly surprised. I got he OCC Neotech first in my Dark Star and then in my WA5-LE. In both it was an improvement in dynamics and clarity of sound.


----------



## grokit

Love my WA-22, but I'd upgrade to a WA-5 in a heartbeat. And I'd rather have a stock WA-5 than an upgraded WA-5LE.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Love my WA-22, but I'd upgrade to a WA-5 in a heartbeat. And I'd rather have a stock WA-5 than an upgraded WA-5LE.


 
   
  X2, I even considered sell both WA22 and beta22 for WA5.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Go on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 do it...do it now!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





188479 said:


> > The last upgrade I have done is the umbilical cord. I went from the stock to one made for me by our friend Keph based on Neotech OCC solid copper wire. I was able to notice and increase in dynamics and cleanness in the sound with the new cord.
> 
> 
> 
> Was just talking to Keph today and he is going to make one for me.  Also ended up getting a few NOS tubes from him (as if I needed any more)...looking forward to trying it out.


 
  I'm looking around the room for something keph can fabricate for me...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Go on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are really a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Love my WA-22, but I'd upgrade to a WA-5 in a heartbeat. And I'd rather have a stock WA-5 than an upgraded WA-5LE.


 

 What is the real difference between them? please.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> What is the real difference between them? please.


 
   
  Design, power, and tubes used (300B) are the major difference.  The 300B is a hit or miss on personal preference, IMHO, I love it the first time I tried.


----------



## Swatcsi

Does the upgraded WA5/WA5-LE, have an increase in the life of the amp? I'm assuming it improves sound, but how so?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> What is the real difference between them? please.


 
  The WA5 have different transformers to provide higher output for the speakers tabs and K1000 output.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





188479 said:


> So for you guys that go for an aftermarket upgrade of caps, who do you get to do the work?  Is it something you do yourselves?  I would be very interested in getting some Mundorf Silver (or gold silver) caps in my WA6SE...but I really don't think I'm up to installing them myself!


 
  My local dealer does this for me. I don't trust myself with a soldering iron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Design, power, and tubes used (300B) are the major difference.  The 300B is a hit or miss on personal preference, IMHO, I love it the first time I tried.


 
   
  x2 Fell in love with the first 300B amp I heard (The Audion Duo) this narrowed my original K1000 headamp choice to the WA5 and EC BA. I chose the WA5 over the EC BA because of the speaker outputs (share the love!) and the WA5 internals were neater.


----------



## 188479

Hey all, a quick question for this group. I'm thinking it's time to get a set a planar headphones for myself. I've been looking at the LCD-2( rev 2) and the HE-500. I know both of these headphones are somewhat amp dependent, but have seen many people state that both can be driven with a WA6-SE. So the big question, for those who own or have listened, is one of these a better match with my amp?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hey all, a quick question for this group. I'm thinking it's time to get a set a planar headphones for myself. I've been looking at the LCD-2( rev 2) and the HE-500. I know both of these headphones are somewhat amp dependent, but have seen many people state that both can be driven with a WA6-SE. So the big question, for those who own or have listened, is one of these a better match with my amp?


 
   
  Get the LCD-2, much better headphone than HE-500.  WA6SE with high gain tubes drives them perfectly fine.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Get the LCD-2, much better headphone than HE-500.


 
   
  I tend to disagree. It's personal preference


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





188479 said:


> Hey all, a quick question for this group. I'm thinking it's time to get a set a planar headphones for myself. I've been looking at the LCD-2( rev 2) and the HE-500. I know both of these headphones are somewhat amp dependent, but have seen many people state that both can be driven with a WA6-SE. So the big question, for those who own or have listened, is one of these a better match with my amp?


 
  +1 for the LCD 2 Rev 2, better build, a much better audio experience (soundstage, bass, details, midrange), and better synergy with the WA6SE - to my ears.
   
  One note though: if you can save up a bit, then get the LCD3s, they do everything quite a bit better than the LCD2, if you always have upgrade'itis like me - I figure its easier to save the $ and go straight to the top.


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Get the LCD-2, much better headphone than HE-500.  WA6SE with high gain tubes drives them perfectly fine.


 

 I use a set of LCD2 v2 with the WA6SE sound great.


----------



## MomijiTMO

I swear you end up reading the same regurgitated impressions wherever you go. Best thing you can do is try both of them.


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





momijitmo said:


> I swear you end up reading the same regurgitated impressions wherever you go. Best thing you can do is try both of them.


 

 That's correct let your ears do the walking or listing!!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> That's correct let your ears do the walking or listing!!


 
  Absolutely! Personal Preference means you spent money on what YOU like not someone else.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Get the LCD-2, much better headphone than HE-500.  WA6SE with high gain tubes drives them perfectly fine.


 
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I tend to disagree. It's personal preference


 
   
  I'm with jc9394 on this one.


----------



## keph

silent one said:


> I'm looking around the room for something keph can fabricate for me...



 
 well thx Musicman and Kev... SO im waiting to make yours hehe..


----------



## keph

188479 said:


> Hey all, a quick question for this group. I'm thinking it's time to get a set a planar headphones for myself. I've been looking at the LCD-2( rev 2) and the HE-500. I know both of these headphones are somewhat amp dependent, but have seen many people state that both can be driven with a WA6-SE. So the big question, for those who own or have listened, is one of these a better match with my amp?



 
 i prefer the LCD for the WA6SE, since i have my LCD2 V1 i barely use my HE-500


----------



## keph

For now i have 6 596's converters total... Any one need some??


----------



## keph

musicman59 said:


> [size=medium]I have not made a direct comparison between a stock WA5-LE and an upgraded one.[/size]
> [size=medium]When I was looking at buying a Woo amp I was thinking on the WA22 since my system is fully balanced. I had the opportunity to compare the WA22 and WA5-LE with my own T1 headphones at the 2010 CanJam.[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]After listening to them and talking to Jack it was clear to me that the WA5-LE was the way to go.[/size]
> ...



 
 Nicee!!! Im Drooling while reading your post... When i have enough money WA5 will be my next AMP...Can't wait..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let's see what the months of September/October hold as promise. Would love to have something audio related to start the first day of autumn...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Would love to have something audio related to start the first day of autumn...


 
   
  A new audiophile level dust cloth? I'm sure a little maintenance won't hurt


----------



## MomijiTMO

Gah I hate dust. Remind me to clean my rack on the weekend.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Let's see what the months of September/October hold as promise. Would love to have something audio related to start the first day of autumn...


 
   
  I even hand carry it to you if keph can meet me at Shanghai in couple weeks.


----------



## keph

jc9394 said:


> I even hand carry it to you if keph can meet me at Shanghai in couple weeks.



 
 I hope can meet so i can take u around for a trip that will make u spend every single penny of yours hehehe...i might meet my dad in Shanghai but still don't know when.. I'll let you know JC


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





keph said:


> I hope can meet so i can take u around for a trip that will make u spend every single penny of yours hehehe...i might meet my dad in Shanghai but still don't know when.. I'll let you know JC


 
   
   
  Tentative I will be in Shanghai the week of Sept 3, pending the approval of China Visa.  It is a pain for former China citizen to get a China Visa.  Hope you can make it, love to go to the Bund area at night and have a lot of 小籠包​.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Tentative I will be in Shanghai the week of Sept 3, pending the approval of China Visa.  It is a pain for former China citizen to get a China Visa.  Hope you can make it, love to go to the Bund area at night and have a lot of 小籠包​.


 
   
  i will let you know if ill be there..cant wait to eat Shanghai's 小笼包...if not you can stop by Beijing hehe...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





keph said:


> i will let you know if ill be there..cant wait to eat Shanghai's 小笼包...if not you can stop by Beijing hehe...


 
   
  Love to visit Beijing but this is a very short trip, 4 days in Shanghai...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the fine gesture. First, keph will need to determine if my RCA cables will not rob me of highs; mids. All this talk of travel around China makes me wanna resume my Mandarin studies.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the fine gesture. First, keph will need to determine if my RCA cables will not rob me of highs; mids. All this talk of travel around China makes me wanna resume my Mandarin studies.


 
   
  Mandarin does not do you any good in Shanghai, they have their own dialog that is very different from Mandarin.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, my teacher is from Shanghai and she described the dialect as "Shanghai-nese." Also, I gotta start somewhere and once I have a foundation, Cantonese and regional dialects will come. And afford me an expanded horizon.


----------



## keph

Well then we all can meet at Beijing where the real Mandarin is...Lots of toys here too..hehehe


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks for the fine gesture. First, keph will need to determine if my RCA cables will not rob me of highs; mids. All this talk of travel around China makes me wanna resume my Mandarin studies.


 
   
  Will do..ill let you know if the Magical cable suits you..


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





keph said:


> Will do..ill let you know if the Magical cable suits you..


 
   
  Keph, don't forget to tell me when I can send you your 596 tubes. I'm getting tempted to selling to the highest bidder


----------



## keph

ultrainferno said:


> Keph, don't forget to tell me when I can send you your 596 tubes. I'm getting tempted to selling to the highest bidder



 
 Will do SIR...


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Its been seven days since I replied to the Woo Audio  email and still no reply..
> 
> I though maybe he was busy and I would give them time..
> He said he would fix the amp and pay shipping and all I asked for was a new jack and $30 and he said he wants to fix it as he feels the new jack will not cure the issue of the plug getting stuck..
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Silent One, once again your optimism has been rewarded.  I will get the best of both worlds: A stock amp with a switch and an add-on second pre-out!
  I heard from Jack: They are now manufacturing the WA2 with the switched pre-out standard!  He has offered to swap mine for a new one - with the second pre-out added!
  Woo Hoo!
  Yes, pun intended ;^)
   
  Rocknrolldoctor, have you heard from Jack, too?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





Left channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Right channel


----------



## Silent One

To: Jack Wu | WooAudio
   
  Thanks for giving valued members another opportunity to believe in you.




   
  Kindly written,
   
  A Woozie for life!


----------



## MomijiTMO

That's a good story


----------



## longbowbbs

Sometimes we have to remember that these are smaller companies. The good part is that they do listen and care about our concerns. Hats off to everyone for staying calm and acting like adults and professionals. This is one reason I appreciate Head-fi!


----------



## NOMBEDES

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To: Jack Wu | WooAudio
> 
> Thanks for giving valued members another opportunity to believe in you.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  A WOOZIE,  Yes, I like it.  Count me in as a new Woozie.  WA22 will be on its way to my humble abode soon.......can not wait......


----------



## jc9394

My WA22 needs to packed for storage for a while, my little one keep wants to play with it. :mad:


----------



## Silent One

Ah yes, you're at that child/tamper proof stage...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  And your finely selected color choice is...?


----------



## redcat2

There is a set of emission 300B for sale if any one is interested http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Emission-Labs-300B-XLS-/110940634551?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item19d493bdb7


----------



## NOMBEDES

QUOTE:  And your finely selected color choice is...?
   
   
Siver.  Silent One.  Silver.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  ;

   Silent One: And your finely selected color choice is...?


----------



## Silent One

Clever. I'm guessing the vast amount of space in your post is reserved for your incoming pix of the WA22.


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Rocknrolldoctor, have you heard from Jack, too?


 
  Yes I did hear back but I gave up trying to get Woo to send me the Fedex call tag he said he would six or seven emails ago and will get it fixed myself..
   
  A week and a email latter I'm back to "I want you to be happy blah blah blah"
  I head that like ten times in all these emails and still no Fedex shipping label..
 He says all the right things but is not sending the call tag like he said weeks ago..

 I'm getting pissed off reading the emails with statements like "I don't think the people you will bring it to have the knowledge to fix it and there will just be many more emails"
  Its just not worth it to me getting angry trying and deal with him by email, He wrote not to phone again after I had left a message on the Paypal number. I asked for a new Jack and $30 and ten plus emails latter he says I'm right he should fix it and he will send a Fedex Call Tag but that seems to be all just talk...
   
  This is my first and last Woo Amp........


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hi all,

I could use some help. Im looking to list my Audio-gd NFB10-WM in the for sale forums, but am not sure what's it is worth. I know this isn't the best place to ask, but a lot of you have quite a bit of experience and familiarity with a wide range of gear so I thought id try here. 

I got mine in March of last year for $780. It is the initial version with fully balanced dedicated DAC and fully balanced amp. At some point since then, they switched to a much cheaper model using a mass produced motherboard that lists for $499 but doesn't look as nice. Any insight would be appreciated. I'll post the link to my exact unit below. I also have pics in my profile, but have posted them here in the past.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB10XLR/NFB10WMEN.htm

It has been a great unit for the last year and a half and has helped with my WA22 since it has fully balanced XLR outputs. However, I'm looking to pickup a Yulong D18 to replace it.

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## Sid-Fi

Also, is Glenn back to consistently making adaptors? I still haven't ordered my adaptor yet for the USAF 596 from our huge group buy months ago.

I better duck before I get clobbered by whatever SilentOne is getting ready to throw at me! :rolleyes:


----------



## NOMBEDES

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Clever. I'm guessing the vast amount of space in your post is reserved for your incoming pix of the WA22.


 
  Indeed, the entire layout, 27inch iMac, W4S DAC2, my new baby, and my WOO Head phone stand (of which I am quite proud) festooned with my Sennheiser et al.   I guess it will have to be a wide angle shot......a Woozie Doozie.......


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Bet you're gonna hit the "Upload" button like a video gamer! Now that I know exactly what's coming,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can better select the appropriate snack.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Also, is Glenn back to consistently making adaptors? I still haven't ordered my adaptor yet for the USAF 596 from our huge group buy months ago.
> 
> I better duck before I get clobbered by whatever SilentOne is getting ready to throw at me!


 
   
  Now, Eggs could prove wasteful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but shouldn't hurt. Yes, Glenn has resumed making adapters - WooAudio should have a scant few and keph does also, both sources have them already made for shipping.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Just a heads up that I posted my Woo Audio 6SN7 to 6F8G tube adapters and Tung Sol 6F8G black glass rib plates in the for sale forum. Thought I'd mention it since so many of us have been looking for adapters here and there with all of the tube rolling that goes on here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also posted my Aqvox USB low-noise power supply.
   
  Now to kick back and enjoy a nice, long listening session with Ms. Sophia and my WA22.


----------



## Ultrainferno

There's still some tension between them


----------



## DarknightDK

No tensions here


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> There's still some tension between them


 
   
  Hey, that WA2 looks exactly like the one I left behind in Amsterdam. I got drunk one night and traded it for beer and chocolates.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hey, that WA2 looks exactly like the one I left behind in Amsterdam. I got drunk one night and traded it for beer and chocolates.


 
   
  Hahaha. It sure was a good deal for me!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I posted another picture here: http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/671473/


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I posted another picture here: http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/671473/


 
  I am trying to decide if that is better than Beer or Chocolate or both!...


----------



## Sid-Fi

I vote for the ladder . That must have been a hell of a beer.


----------



## Seamaster

Sold my beloved WA22 to Switzerland, man, the shipping cost $240 USD. I am now amp less the motion less, kind miss it from time to time. But seems I am going to jump right back on Woo band wagon with WEE and maybe a pair of Airbow if I am lucky to find one.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I posted another picture here: http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/671473/


 
  For me anyway, this picture is what the thread is about.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Me too..........I ve spent most of my money on women and whiskey. The rest I ended up waisting.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> For me anyway, this picture is what the thread is about.


 
   
  The Lafigaro 339? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Glad you like it!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> The Lafigaro 339?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just seeing photos of people rigs. Pictures of tubes. I just think it's cool to see what people use.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> For me anyway, this picture is what the thread is about.


 
  +1


----------



## 683ekips

I am a little late to the party but I should be receiving my new WA22 in 4-6 weeks ( Singapore long way from NY).
   
  What's a matching Balanced DAC to go with the WA22?  Am using LCD2-2 with Audio-Gd NFB-10SE now.  The Audio-Gd Ref 5.2 DAC is one choice. 
   
  Please advise.


----------



## jc9394

Many like W4S DAC2/Woo pairing and I personally love PWD.


----------



## 683ekips

Pardon my ignotance but what is the PWD?


----------



## Raser

Pwd is propably Perfect WaveDac by Ps audio
   
   
  Im considering bying the WA6 or WA6SE. Just curious is WA6SE worth the extra money? And how versatile are these amps, considering future headphone purchases. Meaning that if i buy another headphones, let's say Lcd3. Do i end up in  another upgrade marathon?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





raser said:


> Pwd is propably Perfect WaveDac by Ps audio
> 
> 
> Im considering bying the WA6 or WA6SE. Just curious is WA6SE worth the extra money? And how versatile are these amps, considering future headphone purchases. Meaning that if i buy another headphones, let's say Lcd3. Do i end up in  another upgrade marathon?


 
   
   
  Correct, PWD is PerfectWave DAC by PS Audio.
   
  If you can afford it, go for the WA6SE, it will drive all LCD plus all other headphones except HE-6 perfectly fine and power to spare.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





raser said:


> Pwd is propably Perfect WaveDac by Ps audio
> 
> 
> Im considering bying the WA6 or WA6SE. Just curious is WA6SE worth the extra money? And how versatile are these amps, considering future headphone purchases. Meaning that if i buy another headphones, let's say Lcd3. Do i end up in  another upgrade marathon?


 
  That's what happened to me.. I purchased the WA6 and thought I may want to upgrade to power hungry phones like the HE500 and the LCD2/3 so I returned it, took a restocking hit from Woo and purchased the WA6SE (you're smarter than I am for looking ahead - get the WA6SE, its much more versatile than the WA6 in terms of driving capability)..


----------



## K_19

I used to own the WA6, and now own the SE. WA6 was totally satisfying for headphones I had at the time such as HD650, K701, RS1 and the like. However, once I began to hit the HD800, LCD-2 level, I started to feel that WA6 was a bit lacking. Got the WA6SE and haven't contemplated a direct upgrade since  (although I've experimented with various sidegrade SS amps).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





raser said:


> Pwd is propably Perfect WaveDac by Ps audio
> 
> 
> Im considering bying the WA6 or WA6SE. Just curious is WA6SE worth the extra money? And how versatile are these amps, considering future headphone purchases. Meaning that if i buy another headphones, let's say Lcd3. Do i end up in  another upgrade marathon?


 
   
  Let me help you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Vote by Proxy...WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition._


----------



## Xcalibur255

The SE also has some sonic benefits in the form of power supply isolation and direct driver/output section coupling.  Why the regular WA6 doesn't offer the latter is something I have always wondered actually.  In terms of sound quality, though, the best cap is always going to be no cap when talking about the the audio signal chain.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





683ekips said:


> I am a little late to the party but I should be receiving my new WA22 in 4-6 weeks ( Singapore long way from NY).
> 
> What's a matching Balanced DAC to go with the WA22?  Am using LCD2-2 with Audio-Gd NFB-10SE now.  The Audio-Gd Ref 5.2 DAC is one choice.
> 
> Please advise.


 
   
  Wow, another Singaporean WA22 owner, congrats! I'm using a modded Cambridge Audio 840C CDP with it, and it sounds fantastic. It has digital inputs as well so I can use it as a DAC.
   
  Did you get any tube upgrades? When I borrowed my friend's LCD2-2, I found these tube combinations worked well:
  Mullard GZ34 metal base, Brimar CV1988 and Tung Sol 7236
 United Electronics 596, Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plate oval mica and GEC 6AS7


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> I used to own the WA6, and now own the SE. WA6 was totally satisfying for headphones I had at the time such as HD650, K701, RS1 and the like. However, once I began to hit the HD800, LCD-2 level, I started to feel that WA6 was a bit lacking. Got the WA6SE and haven't contemplated a direct upgrade since  (although I've experimented with various sidegrade SS amps).


 
  +1.  I never owned the WA6, but I concur that the WA6-SE is spectacular when mated to both the HD800 and LCD-2.2


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Wow, another Singaporean WA22 owner, congrats! I'm using a modded Cambridge Audio 840C CDP with it, and it sounds fantastic. It has digital inputs as well so I can use it as a DAC.
> 
> Did you get any tube upgrades? When I borrowed my friend's LCD2-2, I found these tube combinations worked well:
> *Mullard GZ34 metal base, Brimar CV1988 and Tung Sol 7236*
> United Electronics 596, Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plate oval mica and GEC 6AS7


 
   
  Prefer this much better with LCD2.


----------



## 683ekips

I just placed the order for the WA22 in black.
   
  Not doing the upgrades yet. I want to listen and burn in the stock amp before tube rolling.
   
  I have lotsa 6SN7 tubes from my CARY SLP98 pre-amp.  Other power & rectifier tubes will be another learning process.
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> Wow, another Singaporean WA22 owner, congrats! I'm using a modded Cambridge Audio 840C CDP with it, and it sounds fantastic. It has digital inputs as well so I can use it as a DAC.
> 
> Did you get any tube upgrades? When I borrowed my friend's LCD2-2, I found these tube combinations worked well:
> Mullard GZ34 metal base, Brimar CV1988 and Tung Sol 7236
> United Electronics 596, Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plate oval mica and GEC 6AS7


----------



## Norway

Hi, I own a standard WA6-SE and are currently in the last stages of placing an order for a WA2.
   
  That begs the question; *stepped attenuator or a potentiometer?*
   
  I'm thinking that 24 steps might be to few, because this will also serve as a preamp in a stereo setup later. Also, I have not heard anyone having any problems with the potentiometer.
   
  What do you guys think?


----------



## john57

Well some users believe that only the very best potentiometer like the ALPS RK50 in their setup.


----------



## grokit

https://www.google.com/search?q=stepped+attenuator+or+a+potentiometer%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-beta&channel=rcs


----------



## NOMBEDES

Where do you get a good deal on balanced headphone cables?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Where do you get a good deal on balanced headphone cables?


 
   
  Used, for sale forum here.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I just ordered the Yulong Sabre D18 digital-to-analog converter. It is a fully balanced dedicated DAC design based on the Sabre 9018. It has been getting really good reviews and feedback so I am excited to check it out. It is a low cost alternative to the big boys already named here like W4S DAC2, Anedio D1, etc.
   
  Project86 has a very extensive review up on it, and Skylab has also posted a review of it as well. Both very favorable.
  Quote: 





683ekips said:


> I just placed the order for the WA22 in black.
> 
> Not doing the upgrades yet. I want to listen and burn in the stock amp before tube rolling.
> 
> I have lotsa 6SN7 tubes from my CARY SLP98 pre-amp.  Other power & rectifier tubes will be another learning process.


----------



## john57

The drawback of the Yulong Sabre D18 is no USB if that is important. The Woo Audio WDS-1 has a USB 2.0 interface operating in asynchronous mode. No up or oversampling on this Woo DAC may be a option for some.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Good point! I should have mentioned that.
   
  For me, this approach was perfect. I have the Audiophilleo 2 usb/spdif converter ($499), and the optional PurePower LiPo battery pack with smart board upgrade ($449). So it benefited me greatly that Yulong focused on maximizing the DAC itself at the lowest possible price point while leaving off any bells and whistles. Any time and money spent on USB would have been a waste for me. However, I completely recognize this will be an issue for others that want to rely on an built-in USB section.
   
  I catch myself wondering how much of a difference my AP2/PurePower would make over a DAC with a much more sophisticated USB implementation like Anedio 2. With my Audio-gd NFB10WM that I just sold, the AP2/PP combo was a huge improvement. I wonder how much closer something like the Anedio 2 would be however...
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> The drawback of the Yulong Sabre D18 is no USB if that is important. The Woo Audio WDS-1 has a USB 2.0 interface operating in asynchronous mode. No up or oversampling on this Woo DAC may be a option for some.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Speaking of the Woo Audio DAC, I am shocked they are not getting more attention. For how well regarded the amps are, and how loyal our community is to them, I expected the DAC would get much more attention. However, there seems to be an almost total vacuum of impressions on them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Speaking of the Woo Audio DAC, I am shocked they are not getting more attention. For how well regarded the amps are, and how loyal our community is to them, I expected the DAC would get much more attention. However, there seems to be an almost total vacuum of impressions on them.


 
  +1
   
  not much talk about the dac/transport combo


----------



## john57

At last year RMAF I was using the Woo DAC/Transport unit connected to the Woo WA5LE and trying out different headphones by borrowing from other tables. This allows me to have a single point of reference in trying out different headphones. There was no one behind me in trying out the Woo dac/transport combo for the hour and half that I was using it and I was even going to different tables to borrow headphones. I can say that the transport unit operated very well and the CD start was quick and smoothly to different tracks than some of the more pricey CD transports at the event.


----------



## Xcalibur255

It made sense to release a companion DAC and transport for people who wanted an all Woo equipment rack, but I would say there is a lot more product out there to choose from for DACs than there are for high-end all tube amplifiers and less unique feature differentiation to make them stand out from each other.  Hence people tend to gravitate towards the ones that have the most word of mouth advertising.  The W4S units being talked about in this thread are a great example, it seems to be the first DAC many participants here consider.  The fact that Woo went right for the sweet spot on pricing like almost everybody else does didn't help either as it throws them into direct competition with at least a dozen or more well established competitors.  Without any effort to make them stand out or get recognized they aren't going to get talked about much.
   
  Woo needs to A) do more to get the word out about their new products and B) offer some discount bundles for purchasing amps and DACs/transports together if they want to move more of them.
   
  They certainly have looks going for them, I will say that, just like all Woo products but I think people get a bit less emotional about the appearance of a DAC vs. that of their amp.


----------



## grokit

Woo had offered a decent introductory discount. I was interested but by the time I could get the funds together it had expired. I agree that it would behoove them to at least offer a discount for buying both pieces.


----------



## Silent One

Jack Wu need only to furnish 'Silent One' with said DAC/Transport (loaner) and let him get VOCAL.


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Where do you get a good deal on balanced headphone cables?


 
  I'd just use a single end and save your money for a tube upgrade..
  The Woo outputs are not what I would call balanced.
  They only use three wires, not four like I thought.
  The only advantage of using the XLRs is a little better connection over a single end..


----------



## NOMBEDES

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> I'd just use a single end and save your money for a tube upgrade..
> The Woo outputs are not what I would call balanced.
> They only use three wires, not four like I thought.
> The only advantage of using the XLRs is a little better connection over a single end..


 
   
   
  Wow.  Great info, thanks.  Saved me some dollars.


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

HELP!
  I just received my Adapters for Sylvania VT-99 6F8G tubes..
  I have a Buzz on left side..
 I was thinking bad tube or adapter..
  I changed sides the tubes were installed on expected the buzz to also change side but it stayed on the same side..
 I tried changing power and rectifier tubes hoping for a change but still have a buzz on left side 
   
  Any suggestions what to try???


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> HELP!
> I just received my Adapters for Sylvania VT-99 6F8G tubes..
> I have a Buzz on left side..
> I was thinking bad tube or adapter..
> ...


 
   
  Move the antenna wire away from the rectifier.


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Thats it!
  The socket makes the wire come out right next to it..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If I may, I'd like to ask for a bit more clarity. Are you replying to a specific vendor's XLR headphone cable design? This is because my own reality differs. Working my way from the bottom up in your reply, my balanced headphone XLR cable uses four conductors. They are run completely separate from cups to XLR adapter - no "Y" connector but two per side.
   
  Using XLR cables with this configuration is not limited to a single advantage but three. Yes, they often can offer a superior connection. But they also can afford reduced cross talk and improved stereo imaging with four separate conductors.
   
  Right, wrong or indifferent, I'm enjoying my Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper XLR D7000.


----------



## jc9394

keph said:


> I hope can meet so i can take u around for a trip that will make u spend every single penny of yours hehehe...i might meet my dad in Shanghai but still don't know when.. I'll let you know JC




I will be in Shanghai Tuesday to Saturday, let me know if you can make there.


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Using XLR cables with this configuration is not limited to a single advantage but three. Yes, they often can offer a superior connection. But *they also can afford reduced cross talk and improved stereo imaging with four separate conductors.*


 
  Inside the Woo WA22 is only three wires feeding all the jacks in series hookup..
 I am happy Jack didn't just add a one extra ground wire to make it look like four wires where used but my thinking is no matter how many times you split the three wires its still just three paths running to the headphones.. If your amp will use a 6080 tube the first thing you should buy is a $100 pair of 7236 tubes then pair of $50 Sylvania Chrome Dome 6SN7GTAs


----------



## Sid-Fi

My Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 also has four conductors. It sounds like the assertion being made here is that on Woo Audio's XLR plug and internal wiring somehow doesn't take advantage of the four separate conductors. I don't see how that could be the case.



silent one said:


> If I may, I'd like to ask for a bit more clarity. Are you replying to a specific vendor's XLR headphone cable design? This is because my own reality differs. Working my way from the bottom up in your reply, my balanced headphone XLR cable uses four conductors. They are run completely separate from cups to XLR adapter - no "Y" connector but two per side.
> 
> Using XLR cables with this configuration is not limited to a single advantage but three. Yes, they often can offer a superior connection. But they also can afford reduced cross talk and improved stereo imaging with four separate conductors.
> 
> Right, wrong or indifferent, I'm enjoying my Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper XLR D7000.


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1 on the tubes listed here. I use both the Sylvania 7236 and the chrome top. For the latter, I have tried several respected driver tubes like tung sol black glass round plates 6sn7, the tung sol black glass 6F8G, and RCA vt231 smoke glass but it isn the 1950s Sylvania gta chrome tops that i keep in my Wa22 as my main tubes.



rocknrolldoctor said:


> Inside the Woo WA22 is only three wires feeding all the jacks in series hookup..
> 
> I am happy Jack didn't just add a one extra ground wire to make it look like four wires where used but my thinking is no matter how many times you split the three wires its still just three paths running to the headphones.. If your amp will use a 6080 tube the first thing you should buy is a $100 pair of 7236 tubes then pair of $50 Sylvania Chrome Dome 6SN7GTAs


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> My Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 also has four conductors. It sounds like the assertion being made here is that on Woo Audio's XLR plug and internal wiring somehow doesn't take advantage of the four separate conductors. I don't see how that could be the case.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, Sid-Fi. However, I know exactly what he's addressing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For clarity, the OP sought best deal on Balanced headphone cables. NOMBEDES suggested the OP save his money and get a SE cable, explaining the only advantage XLR's have is with the connectors. My quote above speaks to that reply. The assertion you refer to was just previously addressed on page 1504 - grokit's post #22549 and my own post #22550. See Jack's reply below regarding the Fears of the internal headphone jacks wiring:
   
   
 From: grokit
  
 X2 on the WA22 preference. It has been explained in painstaking detail by Jack (below) that the WA22 is a balanced amplifier that fully utilizes a balanced source. It can send full power to either set of outputs, but only half of its power when utilizing a single-ended source. It took me a while to fully Grok this, I think I have it right at this point but am open to correction.
  
 I would just add that some headphones respond better than others to balanced cabling, and IME these are usually the headphones that have modular connectors to facilitate an aftermarket cable.
  
 Jack's post, 2/7/11:
  
 "[size=medium]The WA22 is a fully balanced amp, see diagram below.[/size]
  
 


  
  
 [size=medium]The question here is that this amp is not fully balanced because the "amp with a single ended output stage directly connected to the XLR connectors.” It is not true. In an Output Transformer coupled design, the primary and secondary coils are isolated. Output stage and input stage are not connected and thus no cross-talk whatsoever can happen.[/size]
  
 [size=medium]On the ¼” output, both channels have independent paths, see the black and red wires.  If this wiring scheme applies to a Output Transformer Less design, the circuit will become single-ended. See the second diagram in #17, the v- would have to be a common wire to other channel.  One must be carefull not to take reference from the wrong context to avoid all the misunderstanding.[/size]
  
 [size=medium]Also, no phase splitter is needed because the source is XLR (balanced). As for the RCA input, only ½ of the input is used and the efficiency is roughly dropped 50%. In other words, the RCA input will not take advantage of this design. You must use a balanced source to get the best out of the WA22.[/size]
  
 [size=medium]Hope that clarifies.[/size]
  
 [size=medium]-Jack"[/size]


----------



## Silent One

And my views on the same issue:
   
   
   Tea for thought ~
   
  Though, I am without a WA22 (no one would sell, feel sorry for me yet?), I do possess a fully balanced source and re-cabled "balanced" headphones (allegedly). And would like to share my brief thoughts on the matter being discussed. Touching on DAC>Amp>Headphone.
   
  At the heart of "Balanced" is achieving Common Mode Noise Rejection. Other than having money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, that's the reason to do it, as I understand it. Also, not all balanced sources and amps are fully balanced in a traditional sense. Some use electronic wizardry. That said, my own DAC is fully balanced. However, my amp is SE. 
   
  Despite my DAC only sending 2.6v in SE mode, I am still benefiting from my DAC's design and achieving Common Mode Noise Rejection. If the 5.2v sent is one of quality, the extra voltage will impart a more favorable sound than it would at 2.6v. And that's ok, because I am still benefiting from CMNR at this time.
   
  Once the amp receives and maintains this signal, mission accomplished. Now, getting to, tapping into and/or outputting this signal to headphones is where imaginations tend to run wild on the subject. Headphones are not balanced - well, in name and symmetry, yes. But, DACs/Amps and headphones are two different things with two different goals and benefits.
   
  With headphones, the goal is reduced Cross-talk and increased channel separation. And generally speaking, because there are always exceptions, XLR options tend to offer a chance at superior connections. This has nothing to do with Common Mode Noise Rejection. In my view, re-cabling headphones can yield improvements. But like running water, everyone's reality will vary.
   
  Can any of these things be measured? Time wasted if not audibly discerned?? These questions and more make for another tea, another post on another day...
   
  That's it! Those are my views in a tea bowl. Which, are subject to change through enlightenment. Besides, where would Head-Fi be without participation and discussion?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And my views on the same issue:
> 
> 
> Tea for thought ~
> ...


 
  If only I could find some place where I can learn about Balanced vs single ended? Where can I turn to?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I love this forum!  
   
  Thanks for the concise explanation Silent One!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Silent One. However, to be honest, I'm going to kick back tonight and chill and maybe Saturday morning I'll critically review this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, Sid-Fi. However, I know exactly what he's addressing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> not much talk about the dac/transport combo


 
  I would love to talk about them, but I have nothing to compare them to in order to provide A/B comparisons-this is the first dedicated transport and DAC I have ever owned, so I figured any impressions I would give would not be very helpful.....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One. However, to be honest, I'm going to kick back tonight and chill and maybe Saturday morning I'll critically review this


 
   
  Go ahead, take me to task 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got no money! In a nutshell, I just don't think headphones are balanced in the way members think they are. Re-cabling cans in this manner sets about to achieve something entirely different. And that tapping into a balanced amp with any cans shouldn't matter if the amp has already done its job. I think this is different than having XLR outs from a balanced amp into a preamp w/XLR Inputs or other balanced add-on gear.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey, we're an easy bunch in this thread! We like hearing new stuff and a member's view about new stuff..._c'mon, get in there._


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> not much talk about the dac/transport combo


 
   
  I love my WA6-SE, and that goes for both sound quality and build quality. I have not heard their WDS-1, but by it's appearance I'd say it looks like a cheap "high tech" radio clock manufactured in China, and completely unrelated to the rest of the Woo lineup. I think they would have been more popular if the design were more like their other products.
   
  Shallow Hal wants a gal!


----------



## grokit

From the latest photos that I've seen I would have to say that the Woo dac/transport combo is bigger and more substantial than I had originally thought.


----------



## Silent One

I'm highly interested in connecting the DAC to my rig for a listen..._more so now that I know Jack likes Sade._


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> HELP!
> I just received my Adapters for Sylvania VT-99 6F8G tubes..
> I have a Buzz on left side..
> I was thinking bad tube or adapter..
> ...


 
   I ordered my 6F8G => 6SN7 adapters from Jack just aftr he came out with them sometime ago and had the same problem.
   
  The issue is that the wire use is to thin and not shielded so if it get close to the rectifier or transformer it will induce noise.
  This is funny.... I first covered the wire with aluminum foil and corrected the issue but then I decide to do it the right way and sent them to Glenn. He rewired them for me.


----------



## oldwine

Due to the limited space behind the volume control for WA2, stepped attenuator will have contact to tube socket and not possible to install.
   
  It is my personal experience.
   
  You may ask Jack of Woo to see is they will modify the circuit layout to adapt it
   
   
  Quote: 





norway said:


> Hi, I own a standard WA6-SE and are currently in the last stages of placing an order for a WA2.
> 
> That begs the question; *stepped attenuator or a potentiometer?*
> 
> ...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Due to the limited space behind the volume control for WA2, stepped attenuator will have contact to tube socket and not possible to install.
> 
> It is my personal experience.
> 
> You may ask Jack of Woo to see is they will modify the circuit layout to adapt it


 
   
  Then why does my/Clayton's WA2 have a stepped pot?


----------



## NOMBEDES

Ok, we may have to start a new thread here.....my original question is based on my recent WA22 purchase.
   
*W4S/DAC2 > (XLR) > WA22 > ( missing link )  Sennheiser HD 700.*
   
  I thought I would get "balanced" cables from the WA22 to the Senns.   This so called balanced cable will have to be fabricated because the 700s are rather new and there is not a lot of aftermarket cables being produced. (One would think that Sennheiser would offer all manner of modifications, cables, etc, ... but no... ((and do not get me started on cup holders in German Cars!))
   
  Now, I am under the impression that I should just go with my stock cables.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Ok, we may have to start a new thread here.....my original question is based on my recent WA22 purchase.
> 
> *W4S/DAC2 > (XLR) > WA22 > ( missing link )  Sennheiser HD 700.*
> 
> ...


 
  Let the games begin!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Ok, we may have to start a new thread here.....my original question is based on my recent WA22 purchase.
> 
> *W4S/DAC2 > (XLR) > WA22 > ( missing link )  Sennheiser HD 700.*
> 
> ...


 
   
  As a BMWCCA member, I remember that whole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




German Cup Holder drama! For your cable solution, my friend:
   
   
  www.aphroditecu29.com
   
  Ask for Robert...


----------



## NOMBEDES

Wir wollen unser cupholdergerate haben!!
   
  Way off topic, I bought the LAST sofa a well established German company made in Europe (all further production out-sourced to China) and I wanted tan stiching rather than white.  Tan was available if you ordered dark brown, oh no no had to be white no changes allowed.  Alles muss in ordnung sein.
   
  Anyway, Silent One, thank you again for the link.  Oh, and I now have 16 cup holders in my nice GL 350.   Mercedes Rules.


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 and I get our cables from this source. And have a very good rapport with the dealer. He also provides a Lifetime warranty for work done.
   
  If given the choice, I'd rather have _fast_, safe cars & roads with the ability to focus on _fast_ driving. Get to the cafe and enjoy that drink. As opposed to having cars, roads, laws not up to speed or safety with cup holders and drinks at every turn inside the vehicle. And dilly dallying with every distraction one can have while driving until one finally reaches their destination.


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Due to the limited space behind the volume control for WA2, stepped attenuator will have contact to tube socket and not possible to install.
> 
> It is my personal experience.
> 
> You may ask Jack of Woo to see is they will modify the circuit layout to adapt it


 
   
  The additional cost for adding a stepped attenuator to the WA2 is $215. This comes directly from Jack.
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Then why does my/Clayton's WA2 have a stepped pot?


 
   
  So you had it modified by a third party? At what cost, may I ask?


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Ok, we may have to start a new thread here.....my original question is based on my recent WA22 purchase.
> 
> *W4S/DAC2 > (XLR) > WA22 > ( missing link )  Sennheiser HD 700.*
> 
> ...


 
   
  I actually sent an email to Drew at Moon Audio asking about cables for the HD700, and he told me (as of last weekend) that they are currently working on creating a mold so that they can produce the HD700 cable connectors, which would enable customers to purchase all their cables for HD700 headphones.  He did not specify when this will be ready, but it sounds like it's definitely coming down the pipeline.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I definitely trust Musicman and Silent Ones recommendation. However, I would like to add that I have been extremely happy with Moon Audio cables. In particular, my balanced Silver Dragon v3 has been fantastic. Anyone who has tried them locally has been impressed as well. They are a little pricy retail. However you get an awesome value ordering the cable DIY and assembling it yourself or by a friend if possible. the black dragon DIY is very affordable.



jsplice said:


> I actually sent an email to Drew at Moon Audio asking about cables for the HD700, and he told me (as of last weekend) that they are currently working on creating a mold so that they can produce the HD700 cable connectors, which would enable customers to purchase all their cables for HD700 headphones.  He did not specify when this will be ready, but it sounds like it's definitely coming down the pipeline.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I definitely trust Musicman and Silent Ones recommendation. However, I would like to add that I have been extremely happy with Moon Audio cables. In particular, my balanced Silver Dragon v3 has been fantastic. Anyone who has tried them locally has been impressed as well. They are a little pricy retail. However you get an awesome value ordering the cable DIY and assembling it yourself or by a friend if possible. the black dragon DIY is very affordable.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I auditioned cans for a month with the Silver Dragon. But, not being familiar with the cans or comparing it to stock cabling, I believe it sounds nice. However, sleeving, weight and wear is something I look for with importance as well. The Dragon did not surpass the Zeus cabling in this regard, with the latter's Black TechFlex Nylon Multiflilament Sleeve.


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Ok, we may have to start a new thread here.....my original question is based on my recent WA22 purchase.
> 
> *W4S/DAC2 > (XLR) > WA22 > ( missing link )  Sennheiser HD 700.*
> 
> ...


 
  You can see in the thread pictures of inside the amp.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/456258/wa22-internal-pictures
  The same three wires are feed across all three jacks (two 3 pin xlr, the 4 pin xlr and then the single end) I would buy tube upgrades first..
  If you do what balanced cable I'd now get a two 3 pin xlr..
 The left wire is farther from the right than a 4 pin plug.. I liked the 4 pin look thats why I used it..
  Here are the cables I made as well as the one into two splitter that is made from aluminum..


----------



## Sid-Fi

Which cables are the ones you recommend from Robert? Does he make his own or resale certain ones you like?
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I auditioned cans for a month with the Silver Dragon. But, not being familiar with the cans or comparing it to stock cabling, I believe it sounds nice. However, sleeving, weight and wear is something I look for with importance as well. The Dragon did not surpass the Zeus cabling in this regard, with the latter's Black TechFlex Nylon Multiflilament Sleeve.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> HELP!
> I just received my Adapters for Sylvania VT-99 6F8G tubes..
> I have a Buzz on left side..
> I was thinking bad tube or adapter..
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I ordered my 6F8G => 6SN7 adapters from Jack just after he came out with them sometime ago and had the same problem.
> 
> The issue is that the wire use is to thin and not shielded so if it get close to the rectifier or transformer it will induce noise.
> This is funny.... I first covered the wire with aluminum foil and corrected the issue but then I decide to do it the right way and sent them to Glenn. He rewired them for me.


 
  1) As for WA22 left side adapter wire should be rearranged away from rectifiers.
  2) Use too thin of hook-up wire inside of adapter could get too close or touch each other to make hum. As I always ask glenn to fill inside of my adapters with proxy.
  3) plug in some 6sn7 without adapter, just make sure it not your amp.
  I never had any hum with any of my adapters, even with my very first pair, which left side wire was on the wrong side. Unless the wire physically touch the rectifier, half inch away would be enough in my case.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Which cables are the ones you recommend from Robert? Does he make his own or resale certain ones you like?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Zeus, which is Wireworld headphone cables...
   
http://aphroditecu29.com/Zeus/Zeus_Headphone_Cable.aspx


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks. They definitely look sleek. I see the copper version are affordable at under $300. However, the prices I am seeing for the silver option are $1,200 compared to the $150 I spent on the silver dragon . I notice the effects of silver on the sound of the Moon Audio cable despite the fact that they use an affordable composition. That is some expensive TechFlex. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Zeus, which is Wireworld headphone cables...
> 
> http://aphroditecu29.com/Zeus/Zeus_Headphone_Cable.aspx


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Ok, we may have to start a new thread here.....my original question is based on my recent WA22 purchase.
> 
> *W4S/DAC2 > (XLR) > WA22 > ( missing link )  Sennheiser HD 700.*
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just re-terminate the stock cable; get both male and female 4-pin XLR plugs and you can make a S/E adapter as well.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks. They definitely look sleek. I see the copper version are affordable at under $300. However, the prices I am seeing for the silver option are $1,200 compared to the $150 I spent on the silver dragon . I notice the effects of silver on the sound of the Moon Audio cable despite the fact that they use an affordable composition. That is some expensive TechFlex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Love the Cu29! And if price did not matter, I'd still be fearful of Ag47 making my D7000 too bright.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Has anyone heard the new Cambridge 851c? Looks intriguing. I am wondering how it compares to popular sources like W4S DAC2. Initial impressions seem like its a clear cut above, like the NAD M51 impressions as well.


----------



## Silent One

Now you've got me curious...


----------



## kchew

As an owner of a modified 840C, the new 851C looks like a worthy successor with more connectivity options and digital preamp. Perfect for those who want a CDP and DAC but just want one device for everything.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks kchew. I would definitely love to try it.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I have a question about orthos with WA22 using 7236 power tubes. My main question is, where is the dividing line between what WA22 can power with authority and bring out the headphones full potential?

I have had the HifiMan HE5LE for a couple of weeks. I have found that it clearly sounds under powered overall. While I can tell that it is a strong technical headphone--great imaging, good detail retrieval, balanced FR, etc.-- it comes across as pretty lifeless overall, especially with classical. From what I have read, this is a clear sign they aren't getting the power they need o reach their full potential. Every once in awhile I'll run across a small intimate jazz recording that must require less juice and I get a glimpse of how engaging and immersive they can feel. 

So where is the dividing line my friends? I see that HE500 are a couple of db more sensitive. I also hear that LCD2 are more sensitive than HE5LE. Would these more sensitive orthos reach their full potential or close to it with WA22 7236 tubes? I'm sure they would sound "really good" but with orthos there seems to be a wide gulf between being good and reaching their full potential. I get the feeling only HE400 would truly be fully powered.

Hopefully some of you have the depth of experience in this area to help me out.

Cheers.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> musicman59 and I get our cables from this source. And have a very good rapport with the dealer. He also provides a Lifetime warranty for work done.
> 
> If given the choice, I'd rather have _fast_, safe cars & roads with the ability to focus on _fast_ driving. Get to the cafe and enjoy that drink. As opposed to having cars, roads, laws not up to speed or safety with cup holders and drinks at every turn inside the vehicle. And dilly dallying with every distraction one can have while driving until one finally reaches their destination.


 
  Our friends Wotts and Audio Addict also are happy customers of Aphroditecu29.com
  I listened to the HD700 once and based on that I personally would not use a silver cable. IMO it is pretty bright already to make it more with a silver cable.
   
  Don't get misguided by the copper cable. It is the same OCC Copper wire used in the Wireworld Eclipse 6 interconnects. They help getting a deeper and more control bass BUT it does not take anything away from the midrange and high frequencies.
   
  I tried once the Silver Dragon in a pair of HD650 and IMO it was ok no more than that. I personally prefer the Zeus but it is just my preference. Is the Silver Dragon 100% silver wire? If you take a look at the Zeus types you can see they are OCC Copper, Silver Clad Copper and Solid Silver. The Solid Silver are the ones really expensive.
  Based on the prices I have seen in other solid silver cables I truly can not understand the price of the Silver Dragon if it is OCC Solid Silver then it is a bargain.
   
  IMO if you want to go with a Moon Audio for the HD700 I personally would use the Black Dragon unless you really like high frequencies and don't get fatigue from them.


----------



## Silent One

Great to hear wotts; audio addicts, hangin' @ the boutique. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Zeus purchase drove my Eclipse 6 purchase a month later.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great to hear wotts; audio addicts, hangin' @ the boutique.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeap, my custom made Furutech externally bi-wire speaker cables drove me to the Zeus (My T1 has the first Zeus ever sold) and from there a bunch of Eclipse 6 and Electra 5.2 PCs.


----------



## Sid-Fi

The Moon Audio SilvervDragon v3 is not solid core silver. It is described as UP-OCC stranded silver Teflon insulated stranded conductors. I interpret this as just enough silver to impart the sonic characteristics associated for silver without the associated ridiculous price of solid core silver. 

The SilvervDragon v3 are to me a dramatic upgrade over my Jenna Labs ultra wire copper cable and stock cable. I havent heard the Zeuss and would not have a reason to doubt it could be better. The main thing I needed in my setup was to counter some of the quirks in my HD 650, namely midbass hump, somewhat recessed/rolled off treble, and lack of speed. It accomplished this nicely. I think cabling can have a lot to do with synergy. For example, I would not want to use silver for HD 800 or for my Jerry Harvey JH5, which are already fast and lean sounding and a tad analytical. 

Musicman, do ou remember what version of the silver dragon you used, and what amp you were using? Also, which version of the silver Zeuss would you recommend as the best bang for the buck?



musicman59 said:


> Our friends Wotts and Audio Addict also are happy customers of Aphroditecu29.com
> I listened to the HD700 once and based on that I personally would not use a silver cable. IMO it is pretty bright already to make it more with a silver cable.
> 
> Don't get misguided by the copper cable. It is the same OCC Copper wire used in the Wireworld Eclipse 6 interconnects. They help getting a deeper and more control bass BUT it does not take anything away from the midrange and high frequencies.
> ...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> The Moon Audio SilvervDragon v3 is not solid core silver. It is described as UP-OCC stranded silver Teflon insulated stranded conductors. I interpret this as just enough silver to impart the sonic characteristics associated for silver without the associated ridiculous price of solid core silver.
> The SilvervDragon v3 are to me a dramatic upgrade over my Jenna Labs ultra wire copper cable and stock cable. I havent heard the Zeuss and would not have a reason to doubt it could be better. The main thing I needed in my setup was to counter some of the quirks in my HD 650, namely midbass hump, somewhat recessed/rolled off treble, and lack of speed. It accomplished this nicely. I think cabling can have a lot to do with synergy. For example, I would not want to use silver for HD 800 or for my Jerry Harvey JH5, which are already fast and lean sounding and a tad analytical.
> Musicman, do ou remember what version of the silver dragon you used, and what amp you were using? Also, which version of the silver Zeuss would you recommend as the best bang for the buck?


 
  I totally agree with you using a silver cable with the HD650. I personally will not use it in a HD700. The Silver Dragon I used was the V2 balanced with a Rudistor RP010B MkII.
   
  If you want a silver Zeus even Robert recommends going with the silver clad copper Zeus. It gives you most of the solid silver in a more affordable price. Robert sent me a pair of HE-6 with the Zeus silver clad copper hardwired to compare to my HE-6 OCC copper Zeus hardwire. It was very clear (even my wife noticed it who doesn't care or understands audio) that the silver clad had a more detail and bigger soundstage but I am sensitive to high frequencies and it caused me fatigue in about 20 minutes but that's me.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks MusicMan. I see the v2 silver dragon was 4N and the v3 I have is 6N. I imagine the latter would be a tad more refined , but am not sure I would expect a really big difference. It would be interesting to compare them directly though. 

Okay, I see what was throwing me off with the Zeuss pricing. The silver clad is listed under the copper pricing and runs about $500 for six feet. The only pricing I was seeing under the silver section was the full solid core silver at around $1,200. 

I could definitely see silver causing fatigue if not paired with a headphone that really needed silver to offset issues that copper might exasperate. In fact, I have been using SilvervDragon interconnects as well, but will probably pick up a copper interconnect solution when I move past HD 650. 



musicman59 said:


> I totally agree with you using a silver cable with the HD650. I personally will not use it in a HD700. The Silver Dragon I used was the V2 balanced with a Rudistor RP010B MkII.
> 
> If you want a silver Zeus even Robert recommends going with the silver clad copper Zeus. It gives you most of the solid silver in a more affordable price. Robert sent me a pair of HE-6 with the Zeus silver clad copper hardwired to compare to my HE-6 OCC copper Zeus hardwire. It was very clear (even my wife noticed it who doesn't care or understands audio) that the silver clad had a more detail and bigger soundstage but I am sensitive to high frequencies and it caused me fatigue in about 20 minutes but that's me.


----------



## Sid-Fi

By the way MusicMan, I sure wish I could try out Beyer T1s. I get the impression they might be my favorite high-end solution to pair with my WA22 based on how they are described, and you have described them specifically. I wouldn't be ready to order a pair even on a free trial basis, but I wish someone had them locally. Seems we have everything covered locally but that.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Has anyone heard the new Cambridge 851c? Looks intriguing. I am wondering how it compares to popular sources like W4S DAC2. Initial impressions seem like its a clear cut above, like the NAD M51 impressions as well.


 
  It looks promising for those looking to save space with a combination CD/DAC unit, but my problem with it is the non-defeatable upsampling.  That instantly removes any DAC from consideration for me.  Job 1 of these piece of gear is to pass the audio data to you in its unaltered original form as much as possible.  Upsampling is the exact opposite...... it destroys all the original audio samples and replaced them with mathematically derived equivalent ones.  I have never heard an upsampler that sounded realistic.  Some of them sound very musical, but not faithful to the original signal.
   
  Now the NAD M51 seems truly promising mostly due to the implementation.  Being able to use it as a pre means throwing a pair of monoblocks next to it and bam you're done.  For headphone use I think its potential is not being fully utilized.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks MusicMan. I see the v2 silver dragon was 4N and the v3 I have is 6N. I imagine the latter would be a tad more refined , but am not sure I would expect a really big difference. It would be interesting to compare them directly though.
> Okay, I see what was throwing me off with the Zeuss pricing. The silver clad is listed under the copper pricing and runs about $500 for six feet. The only pricing I was seeing under the silver section was the full solid core silver at around $1,200.
> I could definitely see silver causing fatigue if not paired with a headphone that really needed silver to offset issues that copper might exasperate. In fact, I have been using SilvervDragon interconnects as well, but will probably pick up a copper interconnect solution when I move past HD 650.


 
  If you are going to a copper interconnect I highly recommend you to try the Wireworld Eclipse 6.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> By the way MusicMan, I sure wish I could try out Beyer T1s. I get the impression they might be my favorite high-end solution to pair with my WA22 based on how they are described, and you have described them specifically. I wouldn't be ready to order a pair even on a free trial basis, but I wish someone had them locally. Seems we have everything covered locally but that.


 
  Yes, the T1 are great BUT I did not like them as much with the stock cable. I was close to give up on them but after recabling them with the Zeus turned to be one of my favorite and match great with the Woo amps. They are the ones I used when I audition the WA22 and the WA5-LE. After hearing the best I ever heard them I was sold in the Woo.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice, thanks for clarifying. The T1 don't have a removable cable do they? Did you have to mail them in for install to Robert? Also, did you get the stranded silver for them or copper?

Having just purchased my WA22 and Yulong Sabre within the last several months, I need to wait awhile before moving up to a flagship headphone, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. Thanks for the feedback.



musicman59 said:


> Yes, the T1 are great BUT I did not like them as much with the stock cable. I was close to give up on them but after recabling them with the Zeus turned to be one of my favorite and match great with the Woo amps. They are the ones I used when I audition the WA22 and the WA5-LE. After hearing the best I ever heard them I was sold in the Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Auto Upsampling is what moved me away from the DacMagic originally...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Nice, thanks for clarifying. The T1 don't have a removable cable do they? Did you have to mail them in for install to Robert? Also, did you get the stranded silver for them or copper?
> Having just purchased my WA22 and Yulong Sabre within the last several months, I need to wait awhile before moving up to a flagship headphone, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. Thanks for the feedback.


 
   
  The copper one. They were a little harsh in the upper registers for my taste so copper was my ticket. I had the chance to compare them to a pair with the Black Dragon and I preferred mine with the Zeus. I thought the BG made them a little darker sounding.
   
  No, they do not have a removable cable. You need to mail them to Robert. BTW, the T1 in Robert's website pictures are mine.


----------



## john57

Here is a youtube showing Jack demo the  WTP-1 and the WDS-1 with the WA22
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RmR0kvU_7Sc
   
  The CES is surely much more nosier than the RMAF.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Wow, your T1 look amazing in that picture. The ViaBlue connectors look awesome with the black TechFlex. That's a nice pride of ownership setup.

I'll definitely keep that cable in mind if I end up going that route.



musicman59 said:


> The copper one. They were a little harsh in the upper registers for my taste so copper was my ticket. I had the chance to compare them to a pair with the Black Dragon and I preferred mine with the Zeus. I thought the BG made them a little darker sounding.
> 
> No, they do not have a removable cable. You need to mail them to Robert. BTW, the T1 in Robert's website pictures are mine.


----------



## Sid-Fi

You bring up a good point. I have preferred non-over sampling DACs for the reasons you point out. However, now I'm reading things like new designs over sampling to some insane kHz in order to more accurately reflect the analog waveform. I think that was the M51 description.

I haven't read up enough on the technical arguments to know which argument is more accurate. 



xcalibur255 said:


> It looks promising for those looking to save space with a combination CD/DAC unit, but my problem with it is the non-defeatable upsampling.  That instantly removes any DAC from consideration for me.  Job 1 of these piece of gear is to pass the audio data to you in its unaltered original form as much as possible.  Upsampling is the exact opposite...... it destroys all the original audio samples and replaced them with mathematically derived equivalent ones.  I have never heard an upsampler that sounded realistic.  Some of them sound very musical, but not faithful to the original signal.
> 
> Now the NAD M51 seems truly promising mostly due to the implementation.  Being able to use it as a pre means throwing a pair of monoblocks next to it and bam you're done.  For headphone use I think its potential is not being fully utilized.


----------



## fhuang

i'm also a t1 fan and i just sent my t1 to drew/moon audio to recable it, with black dragon.  i love t1 with just the stock cable.  hope i'll love it even more.  i'll let you guys know when i get it back.


----------



## fhuang

by the way i had my t1 balance terminated.  see if i like it better with my wa5 or rp010b. 
   
   
   
   i forgot to ask drew to make me an xlr adopter....need to shot him a pm


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> You bring up a good point. I have preferred non-over sampling DACs for the reasons you point out. However, now I'm reading things like new designs over sampling to some insane kHz in order to more accurately reflect the analog waveform. I think that was the M51 description.
> I haven't read up enough on the technical arguments to know which argument is more accurate.


 
  Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I thought the M51 was bit-accurate, meaning it whatever sample rate goes is what goes out.  I know the processor they are using is new stuff and pretty powerful for audio use so if they are upsampling it may be that they've just gone so far with it that the downfalls are being overcome with sheer horsepower now.  People certainly seem to like the sound of it from what I've read. 
   
  The 35-bit resolution is there to permit digital volume attenuation without any sonic degradation, something nearly all other digital controls do even if they claim they don't.


----------



## Sid-Fi

The m51 actually resembles to 844khz, and it seems to be one of the very highest regarded DACs as present.



xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I thought the M51 was bit-accurate, meaning it whatever sample rate goes is what goes out.  I know the processor they are using is new stuff and pretty powerful for audio use so if they are upsampling it may be that they've just gone so far with it that the downfalls are being overcome with sheer horsepower now.  People certainly seem to like the sound of it from what I've read.
> 
> The 35-bit resolution is there to permit digital volume attenuation without any sonic degradation, something nearly all other digital controls do even if they claim they don't.


----------



## Sid-Fi

The m51 actually resamples to 844khz, and it seems to be one of the very highest regarded DACs at present.



xcalibur255 said:


> Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I thought the M51 was bit-accurate, meaning it whatever sample rate goes is what goes out.  I know the processor they are using is new stuff and pretty powerful for audio use so if they are upsampling it may be that they've just gone so far with it that the downfalls are being overcome with sheer horsepower now.  People certainly seem to like the sound of it from what I've read.
> 
> The 35-bit resolution is there to permit digital volume attenuation without any sonic degradation, something nearly all other digital controls do even if they claim they don't.


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]I see that many manufactures play the Specsmanship game. Just higher numbers on paper to the point that it has no meaning itself. For God's sake I am using very, very old tube technology for audio reproduction today and for the future. The equipment in this thread and other tube forums do not always have the best signal to noise ratio, the lowest distortion and parts (tubes) that are close to 60 years old! Call me old fashion and that’s fine by me.  I have listen to audio system like last week that cost costs twice that I paid for my house and I am not disappointed at all with my audio system at home.  If you are going by the numbers game then getting an NOS DAC will absolutely make no sense to get. There is a lot of misconception on how math works in digital audio these days. The DAC chip itself is only 10% of the final sonic signature of the total DAC design. Power supply, R-C filter, the I/V conversion circuit and the final output stage does more to effect the sound quality more than the DAC chip alone. I had a few DAC units in the past and have more issues dealing with power and outputs that had degraded the sound quality from the DAC chip. [/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Wow, your T1 look amazing in that picture. The ViaBlue connectors look awesome with the black TechFlex. That's a nice pride of ownership setup.
> 
> I'll definitely keep that cable in mind if I end up going that route.
> Quote:
> ...


 
   
  And my D7000 looks exactly like the one pictured there too!


----------



## Seamaster

I feel stock WA22 can not drive T1 to their optimal proteincial, strained is the word in my mind when ever I listen to them, even I crank up my WA22 to 15:00 position.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Seamaster. Is that still the case with 7236 power tubes? Not sure if by stock you mean the lower power output 6080s that came with mine stock. 



seamaster said:


> I feel stock WA22 can not drive T1 to their optimal proteincial, strained is the word in my mind when ever I listen to them, even I crank up my WA22 to 15:00 position.


----------



## oldwine

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Then why does my/Clayton's WA2 have a stepped pot?


 
  Can i have a look for your WA2??? it's because i really tried to do that but no ok due to limited space. Thx


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Can i have a look for your WA2??? it's because i really tried to do that but no ok due to limited space. Thx


 
   
  PM me your email maybe? I'll send you all the internal pics


----------



## dubselect

Hello guys!
   
  Could please tell me what upgrades can be done to WA22 (except tubes)?


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> Could please tell me what upgrades can be done to WA22 (except tubes)?


 
   
  I would like to know this as well. Any idea how I can upgrade the internal wiring or caps used?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I have a question about orthos with WA22 using 7236 power tubes. My main question is, where is the dividing line between what WA22 can power with authority and bring out the headphones full potential?
> 
> I have had the HifiMan HE5LE for a couple of weeks. I have found that it clearly sounds under powered overall. While I can tell that it is a strong technical headphone--great imaging, good detail retrieval, balanced FR, etc.-- it comes across as pretty lifeless overall, especially with classical. From what I have read, this is a clear sign they aren't getting the power they need o reach their full potential. Every once in awhile I'll run across a small intimate jazz recording that must require less juice and I get a glimpse of how engaging and immersive they can feel.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  For myself, the dividing line was between the HD800/LCD-2 which the WA22 powers very well with 7236/5998 power tubes, and the HE-5/6, which it is inadequate for. The WA22 also seems to strain with the AKG K701, and was definitely a fail with the K1000. It may be fine with the HE500 from what I have read but I have not heard that combo personally.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> By the way MusicMan,* I sure wish I could try out Beyer T1s*. I get the impression they might be my favorite high-end solution to pair with my WA22 based on how they are described, and you have described them specifically. I wouldn't be ready to order a pair even on a free trial basis, *but I wish someone had them locally.* Seems we have everything covered locally but that.


 
   
  Someone does...PM sent!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> I feel stock WA22 can not drive T1 to their optimal proteincial, strained is the word in my mind when ever I listen to them, even I crank up my WA22 to 15:00 position.


 
  With the TS5998 or any 7236, I couldn't get the dial past 12 o'clock without way too much volume on my WA22. It was a fantastic amp for my T1s. Which power tubes were you running?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Not to get too off topic, but MH do you mind sharing a brief impression of how big the gap is between the W4S DAC2 and the DAC in the 650c? I've been curious as to how good the built-in DAC is or isn't in a nice mid-range cd player such as the 650c or comparable price NAD/Marantz etc.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Silent One! I have met the local member that now has T1s. We attended one of the largest meets we have had down here together about 2.5 years ago. Although, I don't recall the T1s being present at the time. Good news, I hope!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Someone does...PM sent!


----------



## MacedonianHero

sid-fi said:


> Not to get too off topic, but MH do you mind sharing a brief impression of how big the gap is between the W4S DAC2 and the DAC in the 650c? I've been curious as to how good the built-in DAC is or isn't in a nice mid-range cd player such as the 650c or comparable price NAD/Marantz etc.




Big enough for me to use the 650C exclusively as a transport. It uses the same CD mechanism as the 850C, so as a transport, it fits the bill.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Good to know. Thanks MH.
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Big enough for me to use the 650C exclusively as a transport. It uses the same CD mechanism as the 850C, so as a transport, it fits the bill.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> Could please tell me what upgrades can be done to WA22 (except tubes)?


 
   
  My WA22 is wired up with Mundorf 1.0mm silver/gold wire, and Furutech rhodium IEC inlet and fuse have been installed as well. I provided the parts to Jack and he installed them when building my WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One! I have met the local member that now has T1s. We attended one of the largest meets we have had down here together about 2.5 years ago. Although, I don't recall the T1s being present at the time. Good news, I hope!
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Gotta look out for my fellow Woozies!


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

I was just reading about the WA22 not having the power to drive the K-702s and T-1s..
  I'm listening to my K-702s as I type this and at first I was think the HI Setting sounded better than that LO and had me puzzled..
 After some switching back and forth I then turned the output volume up on my PWD II DAC made them really sparkle with a higher input volume..
 At the lower input volume I seems dead and lifeless even with the WA22's volume jacked up..
  Increasing the input volume is a different story, seemed to have more life..


----------



## Silent One

By chance, rocknrolldoctor, did Jack ever get you straight? I can't remember your status.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Grokit. I really appreciate your first-hand evaluations. It's good to know that the LCD2 and most likely HE500 can be powered very well by the WA22 with my current tubes. These orthos are extremely well reviewed so I don't feel much heartburn at all that the WA22 can't handle the HE5/6 variants. 

The majority of impressions I have read are that flagships dynamics such as HD800 and T1 are also driven nicely with 5998/7236 tubes. I'll have the former for a week or so soon, and hope to hear the latter sometime in the near future. 

Thanks again.




grokit said:


> For myself, the dividing line was between the HD800/LCD-2 which the WA22 powers very well with 7236/5998 power tubes, and the HE-5/6, which it is inadequate for. The WA22 also seems to strain with the AKG K701, and was definitely a fail with the K1000. It may be fine with the HE500 from what I have read but I have not heard that combo personally.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I think the Mundorf oil caps and wiring that have been described in this thread sound fantastic. They are definitely on my radar for down the road a little ways after I pickup a flagship can with premium cabling. I don't recall having read about upgrading the IEC inlet before - interesting.



kchew said:


> My WA22 is wired up with Mundorf 1.0mm silver/gold wire, and Furutech rhodium IEC inlet and fuse have been installed as well. I provided the parts to Jack and he installed them when building my WA22.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Very interesting to know that the WireWorld Eclipse interconnects use the same material as the Zeus. The Eclipse look really nice.

I have a question though. What would be the main differences between the Eclipse 6 And Equinox 6? The latter uses OCC copper as well, unlike the OFC of the cheaper offerings. It uses the same DNA Helix and Silvertube. It is also described as amazlng value for premium components unlike the popular priced description in lower models. It Is also described as retaining the unique benefits of the Eclipse series for a price that fits a wide range of systems.

It sells for just less than half the price of Eclipse 6 and on paper (Robert's website) it is hard to a notice a difference. Any thoughts or a link you have noticed in the past?

Edit: I have been reading on WireWorld's website. I see the Eclipse 6 and above are listed as reference range whereas the Equinox 6 and below fall below that distinction. Other than that, I still don't see any mention of anything specifically different between the two.



musicman59 said:


> If you are going to a copper interconnect I highly recommend you to try the Wireworld Eclipse 6.







silent one said:


> Great to hear wotts; audio addicts, hangin' @ the boutique.   My Zeus purchase drove my Eclipse 6 purchase a month later.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Very interesting to know that the WireWorld Eclipse interconnects use the same material as the Zeus. The Eclipse look really nice.
> 
> I have a question though. What would be the main differences between the Eclipse 6 And Equinox 6? The latter uses OCC copper as well, unlike the OFC of the cheaper offerings. It uses the same DNA Helix and Silvertube. It is also described as amazlng value for premium components unlike the popular priced description in lower models. It Is also described as retaining the unique benefits of the Eclipse series for a price that fits a wide range of systems.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I own both the Equinox 6 & Eclipse 6 and currently use both. I purchased the the Equinox 6 a year earlier and then when funds permitted a year later, I upgraded. The Eclipse 6 is my primary interconnect between DAC and Amp. But, use the Equinox 6 to connect my second DAC or between two amps when using one as a Pre.
   
  The Eclipse 6 presents notes better defined, spaced, focused with a finer tone and finish. It's natural to wonder if a little more money is worth a little more definition between the two cables - with my W4S DAC-1 w/Low ESR "Super Caps," the answer is yes. But the Equinox 6 is quite serviceable; a competent cable.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I think the Mundorf oil caps and wiring that have been described in this thread sound fantastic. They are definitely on my radar for down the road a little ways after I pickup a flagship can with premium cabling. I don't recall having read about upgrading the IEC inlet before - interesting.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  X2 on that! All of my WA22's mods to date have been to increase functionality, but I would love to mod for upgraded performance at some point. Woo still lists a full compliment of mods to the WA5:
   

 V-Cap input coupling caps. Matched pair 0.15uf/600V
 Jensen voltage filtering caps, 220uf/450V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/160V
 Blackgate bypass (6SN7 cathode) caps, 220uf/16V
 Blackgate bypass (300B cathode) caps, 470uf/160V
 Jensen decoupling caps, 100u/500V
   
  So there's some more ideas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Edit: I have been reading on WireWorld's website. I see the Eclipse 6 and above are listed as reference range whereas the Equinox 6 and below fall below that distinction. Other than that, *I still don't see any mention of anything specifically different between the two*.


 
   
  They should have to explain themselves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





silent one said:


> By chance, rocknrolldoctor, did Jack ever get you straight? I can't remember your status.


 
  NOPE
  I gave up trying to get him to send the Fedex call ticket, I just get more angry with every email..
  I asked two or three times and all I kept getting was "Your right you shouldn't have to fix it yourself just send it back"
  I ask for the call ticket and wait days without reply and then start the same thing again.. "We want you to be happy and we are trying out best to do that"
  He says all the right things just never sends the call ticket like he said he would 5-6 emails ago..


----------



## preproman

I'm just curious..   Is anyone using the new Stockholm DAC with there Woo?  I'm looking at a WA22 + Balanced Stockholm setup.  Any thoughts?


----------



## Silent One

The Stockholm has me intrigued. Formerly had the Balanced Havana in for a couple of months. And in SE mode only used half the DAC - this was expected. Recently, I was told, that the Stockholm (by one of its new owners) even when in SE mode, will still be fully turned-on. Not used but still burning. 
   
  Relevance here? Curiosity. Will contact Taiwan and get some info.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Greetings rocknrolldoctor! Before you keep on truckin', why not send the amp back per one of his earlier instructions - where he asked you send the amp and he'll reimburse shipping charges? That'd be good enough authorization for me as a Plan B. I do remember your saying he flipped, then he flopped and then dropped all pretense of knowing what was communicated earlier.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I still believe you have a chance to get this thing resolved that would work for both parties.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks Silent One. How convenient of you to own both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's good to hear that you have observed tangible and worthwhile improvements in the Eclipse 6. I must say, this interconnect has my attention. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote:


silent one said:


> I own both the Equinox 6 & Eclipse 6 and currently use both. I purchased the the Equinox 6 a year earlier and then when funds permitted a year later, I upgraded. The Eclipse 6 is my primary interconnect between DAC and Amp. But, use the Equinox 6 to connect my second DAC or between two amps when using one as a Pre.
> 
> The Eclipse 6 presents notes better defined, spaced, focused with a finer tone and finish. It's natural to wonder if a little more money is worth a little more definition between the two cables - with my W4S DAC-1 w/Low ESR "Super Caps," the answer is yes. But the Equinox 6 is quite serviceable; a competent cable.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Well said good sir.
   
  Speaking of upgraded caps. I wonder if anyone recognizes the specific caps used in the Yulong Sabre D18 DAC and knows anything about their quality? Specifically, how much room would there be for improvement by replacing them? I purchased this last week and it should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday. Any insight would be appreciated.
   
  Pics from Project86's review below. That SMA wiring going straight from the digital input to the ESS DAC chip and bypassing the pcb board path sure looks intriguing. I had never heard of that before.
   
  Also, on a side note, I LOVE how this thread is a sort of members lounge, yet smaller so that you can really get to the know the members involved, their gear, background and preferences to provide great perspective. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




   




   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2 on that! All of my WA22's mods to date have been to increase functionality, but I would love to mod for upgraded performance at some point. Woo still lists a full compliment of mods to the WA5:
> 
> 
> V-Cap input coupling caps. Matched pair 0.15uf/600V
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Stockholm has me intrigued. Formerly had the Balanced Havana in for a couple of months. And in SE mode only used half the DAC - this was expected. Recently, I was told, that the Stockholm (by one of its new owners) even when in SE mode, will still be fully turned-on. Not used but still burning.
> 
> Relevance here? Curiosity. Will contact Taiwan and get some info.


 
   
  What do you think about tubes into tubes though? I have this notion that a tube amp wants a SS source, and vice-versa.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





grokit said:


> What do you think about tubes into tubes though? I have this notion that a tube amp wants a SS source, and vice-versa.


 
   
   
  Doesn't the type of tubes matter either way?


----------



## grokit

Not for the purpose of this exercise


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Maybe. But, my _WA 6 Special Edition_ did not sound like yesterday's tube amps no matter how I outfitted the amp with tubes to sound _soft & dreamy (euphonic?_). The Woo still came across with a dynamic foundation behind it. And the pairing with the Mhdt Balanced Havana did not suffer. 
   
  It's just that I had the luxury of having both the shoe box (W4S) and Balanced Havana for two months side-by-side, and the shoe box brought a little more to the table for my set up. And yes, the  requisite YMMV applies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I like adventure inside my listening room, and would not hesitate to try a Tube on Tube pairing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks Silent One. How convenient of you to own both
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Curiously, are you currently Yulong Sabre D18>XLR>WA22 or D18>SE>WA22 for the time being?


----------



## Sid-Fi

I actually haven't received my Yulong D18 yet. It is in transit and should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday.
   
  I was using my Audio-gd NFB-10WM balanced with WA22 via Moon Audio Silver Dragon v2 XLR interconnects as my last long-term solution. I sold the Audio-gd, and am currently using a friend's Marantz SA8004 SE with some Nordost Blue Heaven ribbon cables RCA. They are the flat wide version prior to the current models of Blue Heaven interconnects.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Curiously, are you currently Yulong Sabre D18>XLR>WA22 or D18>SE>WA22 for the time being?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I actually haven't received my Yulong D18 yet. It is in transit and should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday.
> 
> I was using my Audio-gd NFB-10WM balanced with WA22 via Moon Audio Silver Dragon v2 XLR interconnects as my last long-term solution. I sold the Audio-gd, and am currently using a friend's Marantz SA8004 SE with some Nordost Blue Heaven ribbon cables RCA. They are the flat wide version prior to the current models of Blue Heaven interconnects.
> 
> ...


 
   
  A short work week, new goodies tomorrow and the WA22 at the center of your playtime..._what a week coming up!_


----------



## Sid-Fi

All the shorter with my having a vacation day tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have too little ones so total quiet time during the day is rare, and being able to listen at every whim will be nice. Cross your fingers that my Yunlong D18 arrives during my vacation day tomorrow. It departed LA early this evening, and I'm pretty close by in Phoenix.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> A short work week, new goodies tomorrow and the WA22 at the center of your playtime..._what a week coming up!_


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Greetings rocknrolldoctor! Before you keep on truckin', why not send the amp back per one of his earlier instructions - where he asked you send the amp and he'll reimburse shipping charges? That'd be good enough authorization for me as a Plan B. I do remember your saying he flipped, then he flopped and then dropped all pretense of knowing what was communicated earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   I have no trust for Jack Woo at this point in time..
  I asked twice or more to do what he said he would do after a few emails..
 Each email it seems like he can't read what I wrote or answer any questions I asked about the amp or about sending a call tag..
 If he changed his mind say so, don't pretend like he never said he would send a call tag or I'm asking him to send it to return the amp..
  I don't trust people that are not forthright in their business correspondence..
  He either doesn't read english well or thinks he is slick by avoiding answering me..
 Either way I am not interested in mailing it back and hoping he returns it, when he can't address the question about the call tag after asking he to do as he said he would..
  He goes on about new amps being built with lock and I'll make you a custom face plate blah blah blah..
 I said I just want a jack that doesn't lock and I like the way the amp looks now, I don't want a custom face plate, just a new jack..
 Just makes me angry to have to keep asking for call tag..


----------



## Sid-Fi

Wow. My Yulong D18 DAC is on the delivery truck today. It's on my one day off this month, what great timing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This thing popped up on DHL's tracking on Saturday in Ghuangzhou China, arrived at Hong Kong on Sunday, and is now in Phoenix this morning on the delivery truck! Holy cow that was faster than I was expected. Wohoo.


----------



## NOMBEDES

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> I have no trust for Jack Woo at this point in time..
> I asked twice or more to do what he said he would do after a few emails..
> Each email it seems like he can't read what I wrote or answer any questions I asked about the amp or about sending a call tag..
> If he changed his mind say so, don't pretend like he never said he would send a call tag or I'm asking him to send it to return the amp..
> ...


 
   
  If my amp was in need of repair, I would be getting it fixed.  I would worry about shipping costs at a later date.


----------



## Silent One

+2
   
  So, I could maintain positive energy inside my listening room; enjoy my sessions.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Music is that important.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Well said good sir.
> 
> Speaking of upgraded caps. I wonder if anyone recognizes the specific caps used in the Yulong Sabre D18 DAC and knows anything about their quality? Specifically, how much room would there be for improvement by replacing them? I purchased this last week and it should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday. Any insight would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


 

 The pictures are too blurry to see the markings.  If I had to toss out a guess just based on appearance I would say they are Nichicon Muse series which are good caps in the electrolytic cap world.


----------



## john57

I would look at the op-amps being used for the outputs and see if I can change them to get a different sonic presentation. It has been my experience that changing op-amps do make a noticeable difference in sound quality.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I posted un-boxing pictures and very first impressions of my Yulong D18 under project86's review thread. Here is the link below if anyone is interested.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/586153/yulong-sabre-d18-thread-reviews-impressions-discussion-full-review-added-2-5/465#post_8671765


Edit: I am quite surprised by the performance of the Yulong D18. I ended up posting additional impressions already since of the improvements were so obvious I didn't see any point in waiting. I'll copy them below.


Okay, so much for waiting a week or two for some early initial impressions like I expected. I am completely shocked at how good this thing is! The improvements I am hearing out of the box are dramatic compared to both my former Audio-gd NFB-10WM and the Marantz SA8004 I currently have borrowed from a friend, and I don't use the term dramatic lightly. I expected to have to work to discern some of the differences, but they are readily apparent.

Several improvements are jumping off of the page right from the start. The background is VERY black and quiet, and detail retrieval is impressive - well beyond either of the units I mention above. I am hearing much more quiet subtle background layers and details in my music that seem to pop out effortlessly. This is significantly improving the level of immersion I'm feeling while listening. The sound is still very enganging and smooth, not at all analytical somehow. Of course, my Woo Audio WA22 tube amp is at play as well here.

Another significant improvement is that the D18 is more...visceral, to borrow a term from project86's post above. This word seems perfect. The D18 is very fast, has excellent pace and speed, and the percussion really snaps. The music just feels so alive and comes out and grabs you. This is particularly impressive considering that I am using Senheiser HD 650, which can be described as slow as sleepy at times. I find that silver cabling and my Sophia Princess rectifier have helped to alleviate that though.

Another improvement so far is that bass on my HD 650 is much more textured and refined. The bass has much richer tone and is very well controlled. I imagine the extra detail retrieval capability of the D18 is really helping here. The lower frequencies stand out very clear from the mids and doesnt blend into them. The overall frequency response seems to be fairly flat and accurate.

The only area that where I am not yet noticing an improvement for my Audio-gd NFB-10WM is the size of sound stage. The NFB felt a little more open and wide. However, my unit has less than five hours on it, so I wouldn't expect it to fully open up for awhile.

Hope the initial impressions are helpful.


----------



## grokit

The Sabre 9018 DAC chip has been mentioned here before as a good pairing with Woo amps, the W4S units particularly.


----------



## Silent One

_That was my discovery, anyway..._


----------



## Sid-Fi

Yeah, I dont think there is much new here except how low of a price point you can start seeing the benefits of a solid ESS 9018 implementation, along with great local customer service. I think the performance I am getting now is likely much closer to what many of you have already had for a good while, but it still feels nice .


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> If my amp was in need of repair, I would be getting it fixed.  I would worry about shipping costs at a later date.


 
 Its not the money...
 I don't trust Woo Audio..
After a week or two of feeling like no one could understand my emails I filed a Paypal claim to get some attention.. 
A refund was grated in one day I guess because I am a platinum member or some such thing at Paypal (buy a lot of stuff using PP) 
  
   
I thought we where going to work things out, thats when he said he will send the call ticket.
A week or two later I was still trying to work things out..
I let the PayPal case expired and now I have no recourse if something happens to it now.
 I was ready to return the amp a week or two ago but I could not reopen case so I'm stuck with it.
I feel like it was a con job..
  
   
I'll fix the jack myself, if I can't I'll order the $7.00 jack and replace it myself..


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Doc, I feel your frustration, believe me.  But, I think that Woo is just crazy busy and a Jack is overwhelmed with daily business management, not just correspondence.  He seems to be a well meaning and, eventually, well doing guy.  I suggest trying again.  Now that summer in NY is over, I think you might find them more responsive.
   
  Hope it works out.


----------



## hodgjy

I don't really trust Woo, either.  My amp developed an internal noise.  I've seen this happen before on the threads, but Woo's typical response was "if you can't hear it when the music is playing, it's of no consequence."  Well, same for me.  I disagree with Woo because the noise is consequential.  To me, that's a petty excuse to not stand behind your product.
   
  Quote: 





rocknrolldoctor said:


> Its not the money...
> I don't trust Woo Audio..


----------



## grokit

Aside from my recent faceplate mishap, my experience with Woo has been quite positive overall. I would venture that their recent troubles are the result of growing pains, which can be quite hard to manage. Hopefully they will be able to get through it. If not, they will stop growing.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I posted un-boxing pictures and very first impressions of my Yulong D18
> *snip*
> Hope the initial impressions are helpful.


 
   
  I caved and ordered a Gungnir. If I'm not totally thrilled with it I will probably try that Yulong. It would be interesting to trade for awhile!


----------



## Xcalibur255

I'm more curious about their statement DAC.  Them saying it is not using any off the shelf chip is interesting.
   
  I'm calling it here first:  I would bet money they're going to call it Sleipnir.


----------



## Sid-Fi

That's funny, I was leaning on the Gungnir as well due to how amazingly well reviewed the Mjolnir is. A local friend has one and it is definitely nice. In the end, the description of the Yulong's sound characteristics were exactly what I was hoping for and the jury was already out, so I pulled the trigger. I will be watching the Gungnir impressions closely I assure you. Can't wait.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I caved and ordered a Gungnir. If I'm not totally thrilled with it I will probably try that Yulong. It would be interesting to trade for awhile!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice. I'm digging the early, bold prediction! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> I'm more curious about their statement DAC.  Them saying it is not using any off the shelf chip is interesting.
> 
> I'm calling it here first:  I would bet money they're going to call it Sleipnir.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> That's funny, I was leaning on the Gungnir as well due to how amazingly well reviewed the Mjolnir is. A local friend has one and it is definitely nice. In the end, the description of the Yulong's sound characteristics were exactly what I was hoping for and the jury was already out, so I pulled the trigger. I will be watching the Gungnir impressions closely I assure you. Can't wait.


 
   
  I'm hoping that the Gungnir will be a big improvement over the Bifrost, as Schiit says it will have "End-Game Performance". From what I have read about the Bifrost, and about the Sabre DACs in general, I would expect that the Yulong would be more dynamic while the Gungnir will have better detail and space between instruments, although the 9018 is capable of great detail as well. While it doubles up on the AKM4399 DAC chip that the Bifrost uses for "real hardware balancing", I'm hoping that the improvements to the Gungnir's analog output stage ("considerably more advanced in Gungnir, with better open-loop bandwidth, true differential summing, and DC-coupled output, as well as 160% higher voltage rails") will take it over the top dynamically.
   
  The statement DAC sounds very promising, and unlike the SS statement amp compared to the Mjolnir there should be a significant sonic difference with the new custom DAC chips reportedly being developed in-house. But it also sounds like that could take a while to develop/debug, and the actual component may have features that I don't need/want to pay for. Quite a few unknowns really. The Gungnir has a perfect form factor for me, and really has everything I need from a DAC these days as far as features go. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi all,
   
  I'm back. I've been back in the US from Holland for 2 weeks!
   
  I thought I just tell you that meeting Ultrainferno and passing my WA2 to him in a beer tavern in the heart of Amsterdam was the highlight of my trip. Not to mention meeting his wonderful gf, Sofie. We laughed at me walking in the tavern carrying the WA2 in my backpack and repacking it in the box it originally came in on the table next to ours. Boy that amp gets heavier when dodging people to meet people.
   
  It was really wonderful to have had the opportunity to meet a fellow Head-Fi'er face to face and even though I traveled over 5,000 miles to meet Ultrainferno, a beer or three and pleasant conversation about everything electronic and chocolate and beer can really make it seem like he lives next door to me.
   
  Travel and amps and new friends do mix well. And you don't have to worry about impedance matching.
   
  Happy Thursday!


----------



## Silent One

Welcome back to the Bay!




   
  Can't wait for you to recharge. And possibly share a link to some pix, so that I can share in your joy!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm back. I've been back in the US from Holland for 2 weeks!
> 
> ...


 
   
  It was fun wasn't it. And the food was so good! Was nice to meet you.
  And you know what we said about next year


----------



## 188479

Sounds like a great trip! I used to live in Rotterdam...I do miss the country....


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Nice reading about your adventures..
 I hope you enjoy the amp as much as I do..


----------



## Groundzero

Hey everyone, just wanted to give a heads-up that I'll be selling my WA6-SE soon and the vast majority of tubes that go with it. If anyone is interested in it as a bundle, shoot me a PM for details.


----------



## 188479

Quote: 





> Hey everyone, just wanted to give a heads-up that I'll be selling my WA6-SE soon and the vast majority of tubes that go with it. If anyone is interested in it as a bundle, shoot me a PM for details.


 
   
  What are you going to replace it with?


----------



## deniall83

Hey guys, I'm looking at getting a wa6 and I noticed in the description it states it has the pseudo dual power supply. Is this now a standard part of the wa6? Also how does this amp perform with iem's?


----------



## NOMBEDES

First impression, WA22. (arrived last week)
   
  SYSTEM:  iMac (W4S USB cable) > W4SDAC2 (Blue Jean Cable Balanced XLR) > WA22 (upgraded tubes) > Sennheiser HD 700 Headphones.
   
  Very strange and very agreeable.  I enjoy blues, rock and Jazz.  Everything sounds great, but I heard details in the music that I know I have never heard before.
   
  As an example, on Daniel Lanois' Black Dub and Beauty of Wynona I think I can hear where he has edited layers onto the recording.
   
  Now I did not hear this detail with my solid state amp which strikes me as odd since Solid State should be more analytical, esp. with the Senn 700s which are very accurate phones. My Solid State amp is a vintage Yamaha R9 Class A, which may not be as accurate as a newer amp?
   
  BTW if you do not know Daniel Lanois, you should.  He recorded Niel Young's Le Noise CD, and did quite a bit of work with U2.  His own material is great.  Of course, you have to love this style of music, feedback, echo, moderate distortion.
   
  Anyway, love the WA 22 and I hope it continues to improve over time.


----------



## grokit

Welcome to the club, *NOMBEDES*. Glad you're enjoying it!
   
  Which upgraded tubes?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Congratulations, and welcome to the club. I am finding that the WA22 is capable of resolving quite a bit of detail if the source is accomplishing this and passing it along to the amp. The W4S DAC2 is known for being competent here.

I'm really curious about your setup with HD700. I have a pretty similar setup to you with a Sabre 9018 DAC, WA22 with premium tubes, but with HD650 instead. Would love to know how HD700 would compare.

By the way, have you attended of the local meets we have had in the Phoenix/valley area? 



nombedes said:


> First impression, WA22. (arrived last week)
> 
> SYSTEM:  iMac (W4S USB cable) > W4SDAC2 (Blue Jean Cable Balanced XLR) > WA22 (upgraded tubes) > Sennheiser HD 700 Headphones.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hi grokit. Any shipping confirmation on the Gungnir yet?

I think your dead on with your expectations of Gungnir. I have a hard time thinking it won't impress considering Bifrost, Mjolnir, and fully balanced hardware setup with the AKM4399. I keep hearing awesome thinks about that DAC chip. A local head-fi'er in particular bought a $2,500 (retail) Denon SACD player/DAC that uses that chip, not even in balanced mode, and he raves about it despite having tried PWD, ULN2, W4S Dac 1, Rega DAC, and a bunch of other DACs. 

I have been nothing but completely enthusiastic and happy with the Yulong D18 so far. The only area where is hasn't blown me away quite as much as the rest of the package is in size of soundstage. It's very competent, has precise separation etc, but not sure I would call it a very large and airy stage if I am being critical. I probably have about 70 hours on it so it will likely improve here. Overall, it just completely stomps the Marantz SA8004, which I really respected at the price point. I think Gungnir will be a similar monster bang for the buck, although likely with a slightly different flavor.



grokit said:


> I'm hoping that the Gungnir will be a big improvement over the Bifrost, as Schiit says it will have "End-Game Performance". From what I have read about the Bifrost, and about the Sabre DACs in general, I would expect that the Yulong would be more dynamic while the Gungnir will have better detail and space between instruments, although the 9018 is capable of great detail as well. While it doubles up on the AKM4399 DAC chip that the Bifrost uses for "real hardware balancing", I'm hoping that the improvements to the Gungnir's analog output stage ("considerably more advanced in Gungnir, with better open-loop bandwidth, true differential summing, and DC-coupled output, as well as 160% higher voltage rails") will take it over the top dynamically.
> 
> The statement DAC sounds very promising, and unlike the SS statement amp compared to the Mjolnir there should be a significant sonic difference with the new custom DAC chips reportedly being developed in-house. But it also sounds like that could take a while to develop/debug, and the actual component may have features that I don't need/want to pay for. Quite a few unknowns really. The Gungnir has a perfect form factor for me, and really has everything I need from a DAC these days as far as features go. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





norway said:


> I love my WA6-SE, and that goes for both sound quality and build quality. I have not heard their WDS-1, but by it's appearance I'd say it looks like a cheap "high tech" radio clock manufactured in China, and completely unrelated to the rest of the Woo lineup. I think they would have been more popular if the design were more like their other products.
> 
> Shallow Hal wants a gal!


 

 WOW, have you actually seen the DAC in person?   It has deep cut "fins" around each corner that are cut deep and thick exactly like the power supply towers on the WA6-SE.  Has a very heavy duty, industrial look to it.  The slide-to-open disk transport is the slickest opening mechanism I have seen on a transport......no tray!  numerous connectivity options and fantastic sound round out the package....I am way more than satisfied...this pair is bargain....
   
  Now, if you are talking about the color option that adds the black accents, I do not like that look at all.  I have the all-silver color scheme that visually matches the WA6-SE perfectly.


----------



## fenom60

Selling my high reading USAF-596 + Woo Audio Adapter. http://www.head-fi.org/t/626761/usaf-596-rectifier-tube-woo-audio-596-5u4g-adapter-shipped-to-us-or-canada


----------



## dgilz

deniall83 said:


> Hey guys, I'm looking at getting a wa6 and I noticed in the description it states it has the pseudo dual power supply. Is this now a standard part of the wa6? Also how does this amp perform with iem's?




"The PDPS became a standard feature for a few years. In the past, we offered this modification as an upgrade." 

I had this answer directly from Jack Wu last week.

For IEM I really don't know how to answer you, I only use full size headphones (Denon D7000, AKG Q701, grado SR60...), and personnaly I don't really consider using anything else with my WA6


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> First impression, WA22. (arrived last week)
> 
> SYSTEM:  iMac (W4S USB cable) > W4SDAC2 (Blue Jean Cable Balanced XLR) > WA22 (upgraded tubes) > Sennheiser HD 700 Headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  My favorite Lanois............


----------



## NOMBEDES

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Congratulations, and welcome to the club. I am finding that the WA22 is capable of resolving quite a bit of detail if the source is accomplishing this and passing it along to the amp. The W4S DAC2 is known for being competent here.
> I'm really curious about your setup with HD700. I have a pretty similar setup to you with a Sabre 9018 DAC, WA22 with premium tubes, but with HD650 instead. Would love to know how HD700 would compare.
> By the way, have you attended of the local meets we have had in the Phoenix/valley area?


 
   
  I am in Tucson area.  I want to go to the next meet and I have subscribed to the Phoenix meeting thread.  It just depends on my schedule.  I will bring the 700's if I can make it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Hi grokit. Any shipping confirmation on the Gungnir yet?


 
   
  Still waiting...
   

   
   
  Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I agree, the WDS-1 looks like it has exceptional build quality; like a tank really. Also agreed that the silver version is quite nice looking.


----------



## Dustandshadow13

Going on week six of waiting for my WA3. Haaaaaaaaaalp! The suspense is killing me.


----------



## Silent One

I was pushing 8 weeks when they finally pushed it out the door. Ah, but when it came...


----------



## Dustandshadow13

Yea I just have an e9 powering my dt990/600s. Not exactly an ideal setup. Hope its an improvement.


----------



## tropicana

Hi, is W3000anv or W1000X a good match with WA6SE?
 I have stock tubes on the WA6SE at the moment.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





tropicana said:


> Hi, is W3000anv or W1000X a good match with WA6SE?
> I have stock tubes on the WA6SE at the moment.


 
  if you have everything stock, my first recommendation would be a rectifier upgrade (may I recommend the Sophia Princess?) there is also a lot of buzz around the USAF596 thought for that you will have to track down a adaptor as well (either from Woo Audio / Keph / or Glenn).


----------



## grokit

From 3 days, 18 hours ago:
   
  Quote: 





fenom60 said:


> Selling my high reading USAF-596 + Woo Audio Adapter. http://www.head-fi.org/t/626761/usaf-596-rectifier-tube-woo-audio-596-5u4g-adapter-shipped-to-us-or-canada


----------



## tropicana

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> ...may I recommend the Sophia Princess?) there is also a lot of buzz around the USAF596 thought for that you will have to track down a adaptor as well (either from Woo Audio / Keph / or Glenn).


 
   
  I have actually tried the Sophia Princess 274B.  There's defintely an improvement in sound.  However, I prefer the narrower soundstage from the Shuguang 274B + 6EW7.  There's more depth, better centre focus and on a whole sounds more holographic... Maybe someday I'll try again. but i'm satisfied with the tubes I have now..
   
  W3000anv owners?


----------



## Silent One

We have a W3000annv owner here but he has a WA5/LE. Perhaps, he'll weigh-in sometime Friday...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





grokit said:


> From 3 days, 18 hours ago:


 
   
  Everybody is already hooked up it seems. I tried doing another 596 sale, but finally only 1 guy was interested, and that was like a month ago.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Another new generation of new Woo owners will come...and spark interest in existing owners. I feel the tube just has great synergy with WooAudio amps.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Another new generation of new Woo owners will come...and spark interest in existing owners. I feel the tube just has great synergy with WooAudio amps.


 
   
  When I tube roll my WA5 for speaker use at our next family Vinyl day the 596 will deffo feature on the short list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My WA5 is in the workshop again fro Microphony issues, we think the UX4 pins have gotten loose and need a tightening! Also  too much gain on the new volume Pot in there so another resistor is going in to give more granularity!
   
  I'm itching to get it back as just had my PS1000 modded to accept HD800 headphone cable sockets and have 3 different cables ready to go! As well as a set of Glenn's 6SN7 > 12SN7 adapters he very patiently and kindly custom made for me! Good times


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





san raal said:


> When I tube roll my WA5 for speaker use at our next family Vinyl day the 596 will deffo feature on the short list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If tubes were wine you would be a sommelier!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I couldn't help myself and bought the HD700 for the WA2. Pics to follow.
  But guess what, it sounds absolutely the best on the Bottlehead Crack. Lol. Awesome sound. Long time since I heard a combo this good!


----------



## tropicana

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We have a W3000annv owner here but he has a WA5/LE. Perhaps, he'll weigh-in sometime Friday...


 
   
  Nevermind, I bought one, SN 1066.
  Burning in now. Out of the box already sounds pretty awesome with the WA6SE.
  A little edgy though...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





tropicana said:


> Nevermind, I bought one, SN 1066.
> Burning in now. Out of the box already sounds pretty awesome with the WA6SE.
> A little edgy though...


 
   
  Try get a hold of Mullard metal base GZ34 and pair it with 6EW7.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> If tubes were wine you would be a sommelier!


 
   
  Would monsieur care to sample the acoustics? Chewy with plenty of body? Or a fruity tempo perhaps?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





tropicana said:


> Nevermind, I bought one, SN 1066.
> Burning in now. Out of the box already sounds pretty awesome with the WA6SE.
> A little edgy though...


 
  I am the one Silent One was refering to.
  Congrats on your purchase. I love my W3000ANV with my WA5-LE. They are the best closed headphones I have heard (I have not heard the TH900). I hardly listen to my D7000 and DX1000 becuase of them and those two are destined to the chpping block (Market) soon.
  I am using the 596 and love them. I have several rectifiers from RCA 5U4G to EML 5U4G (TungSol, Brimar, Fiver, Mullard) but so far the 596 are my favorite one due to they bass punch, clarity,detail and soundstage.
  My power are EML 300B Mesh and I have several drivers but my favorite are different brands of 6F8Gs.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





san raal said:


> When I tube roll my WA5 for speaker use at our next family Vinyl day the 596 will deffo feature on the short list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So with those adapters you can use 12SN7 in the driver positions of your WA5?
  I better contact Glenn again!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Would monsieur care to sample the acoustics? Chewy with plenty of body? Or a fruity tempo perhaps?


 
  Something playful on the treble with some low end body please!


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> So with those adapters you can use 12SN7 in the driver positions of your WA5?
> I better contact Glenn again!


 
   
  Yes indeed, well worth giving the 12SX7 a try too, I didn't get enough time with mine to build up any firm impressions before sending it to the workshop for repair.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Will be waiting for your impressions on the 12SX7, as I'm new in the 12-series class as well...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Look at that beauty...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Look at that beauty...


 
  Major Eye Candy!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Major Eye Candy!


 
   
  I trade swapped it for Candy and Beer!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I trade swapped it for Candy and Beer!


 
  Sweet (Literally  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Good trade for both of you....ClaytonSF, I'll bet the backpack was easier to get through security on the trip home!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Major Eye Candy!


 
   
  Thanks. Was my first attempt with the Canon experimenting with the ISO, shutter speed, etc


----------



## longbowbbs

I'd say the experiment was successful. Beautiful shot!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Will be waiting for your impressions on the 12SX7, as I'm new in the 12-series class as well...


 
  My experience with the 12SX7 tubes using Glenn voltage doubler has not been positive. The 12SX7 tube that I was using uses twisted heater setup in the tube that seems to cause interference with the operation of Glenn voltage doubler in my case.  I am waiting on a pair of 14F7 with locktal adapters with Glenn voltage doubler. I did not noticed any issues with the 12SN7 or the 14N7 tubes with Glenn voltage doubler. Just a word of caution.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is good to know..._ahead of time. _





 Thanks! Will listen out for your 14F7 experience.


----------



## Magick Man

My WES arrived, and woah, it's a beautiful amp. My SR-009s and 4070s love it.  I think I'm finally content.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





magick man said:


> My WES arrived, and woah, it's a beautiful amp. My SR-009s and 4070s love it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  pictures please


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Look at that beauty...


 
  nice


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





magick man said:


> My WES arrived, and woah, it's a beautiful amp. My SR-009s and 4070s love it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congratulations!  Going to be hard to top that combo.


----------



## kchew

Has anyone tried the ECC32 with 6080/6AS7 tubes on the WA22 before? I would try, but the amp gets really hot with those power tubes, and I'm reluctant to plug in the current-hungry ECC32s.


----------



## jc9394

What recitifier you are using? when I use 6080/6AS7G, it is not hit at all. If I use GZ34, the amp gets much warmer than 5U4G.


----------



## kchew

On the 596 right now, which is slightly cooler than the GZ series. I'm just worried that the 50% higher current of the ECC32 plus the heat from the 6080/6AS7 might stress out the transformer.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





kchew said:


> On the 596 right now, which is slightly cooler than the GZ series. I'm just worried that the 50% higher current of the ECC32 plus the heat from the 6080/6AS7 might stress out the transformer.


 
  According to the compatibility list published by Woo Audio you can use the ECC32 in the driver position for your WA22.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## kchew

I guess as long as it's in the compatibility list it should be fine. I'll give it a try after I'm back from F1 qualifying tomorrow.


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





kchew said:


> On the 596 right now, which is slightly cooler than the GZ series. I'm just worried that the 50% higher current of the ECC32 plus the heat from the 6080/6AS7 might stress out the transformer.


 

 Electrically, operating a 596 is the same as operating a 5U4G.  The 596 is basically a 5U4G fortified for aviation duty.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Plus they have Martian antennae!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Plus they have Martian antennae!


 
   
  Pardon me while I adjust the dial on my 9" black and white TV!


----------



## 683ekips

kchew said:


> I guess as long as it's in the compatibility list it should be fine. I'll give it a try after I'm back from F1 qualifying tomorrow.




Hi kchew,

I am hoping to receive my WA22 next week. 

Am already looking to roll the tubes, saw a pair of NOS GEC U52 rectifier tube....tempted but is really expensive. Where do you go to get your tubes?

I am hoping to find tall and sexy looking coke bottle type rectifier & power tubes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Finally had time to roll in some other tubes in Clayton's WA2 and I have to say it improved quite a bit
   
  I took out the 5998s and replaced them by simple RCA 6AS7G, giving them a slightly warmer sound
  I got a new pair of 6922 Sylvania, smoother sounding as the 7308 Siemens I had before
  As rectifiers I'm using a pair of Philips Miniwatt
  
  So I finally succeeded in making it sound warmer and more "bassy"
  Happy loaner!
   
  Btw Clayton, when I give you back the WA2, does that mean I also get chocolates and beer from the States?  Just kidding


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So I finally succeeded in making it sound warmer and more "bassy"
> Happy loaner!
> ...


 
   
  That's great. I see that you got the WA2 to perform to your excellent standards. Now which headphones are the best with your the new improved WA2?
   
  Well, that gives me about a year to find those great Chocolates from the States. Forget the beer from here. I'll pay for an all-you-can-drink evening at In de Wilderman. 
   
  This is the beer I had in Vondelpark. I liked it. But really, any beer would have been great on that hot August day in the park.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's great. I see that you got the WA2 to perform to your excellent standards. Now which headphones are the best with your the new improved WA2?
> 
> Well, that gives me about a year to find those great Chocolates from the States. Forget the beer from here. I'll pay for an all-you-can-drink evening at In de Wilderman.
> 
> This is the beer I had in Vondelpark. I liked it. But really, any beer would have been great on that hot August day in the park.


 
   
   
  with lemon?


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





683ekips said:


> Hi kchew,
> I am hoping to receive my WA22 next week.
> Am already looking to roll the tubes, saw a pair of NOS GEC U52 rectifier tube....tempted but is really expensive. Where do you go to get your tubes?
> I am hoping to find tall and sexy looking coke bottle type rectifier & power tubes.


 
   
  To be honest, most of my tubes came from ebay, but some came from vacuumtubes.net
   
  For the rectifier, perhaps you can start off with the Mullard CV378, which is $120 at Well Audio at Burlington Square. If the U52 is electrically equivalent to the 5U4G, then the normal Tung Sol or RCA 5U4Gs can be a good starting alternative.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> with lemon?


 
   
  Of course! One of my fav beers is the Portuguese SUPERBOK LEMON. perfect when hot outside!
  Clayton, only next time, you'll be in Belgium, not at the wildeman in Amsterdam


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's great. I see that you got the WA2 to perform to your excellent standards. Now which headphones are the best with your the new improved WA2?


 
   
  With the WA2 I have mostly been using the LCD2 Rev 1 and the HD650. The HD700 is soso with the W2, I prefer it on the Crack.


----------



## 683ekips

Quote: 





kchew said:


> To be honest, most of my tubes came from ebay, but some came from vacuumtubes.net
> 
> For the rectifier, perhaps you can start off with the Mullard CV378, which is $120 at Well Audio at Burlington Square. If the U52 is electrically equivalent to the 5U4G, then the normal Tung Sol or RCA 5U4Gs can be a good starting alternative.


 

 That's excellent advise.  I am assuming $120 is in SGD?  The GEC U52 is S$550! Ouch!
   
  What about the power tubes?  What good?


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





683ekips said:


> That's excellent advise.  I am assuming $120 is in SGD?  The GEC U52 is S$550! Ouch!
> 
> What about the power tubes?  What good?


 
   
  Yup, SGD120.
   
  My favourite power tubes are the GEC 6AS7/6080 and Tung Sol 5998. Unfortunately both types are getting rarer and prices are skyrocketing. Otherwise I find the Chatham/Tung Sol 6AS7 pretty good for the price.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Finally had time to roll in some other tubes in Clayton's WA2 and I have to say it improved quite a bit
> 
> I took out the 5998s and replaced them by simple RCA 6AS7G, giving them a slightly warmer sound
> I got a new pair of 6922 Sylvania, smoother sounding as the 7308 Siemens I had before
> ...


 

 Did you get more output from this combination?  I have 6080s ( and Philips 6922 with JJ EZ81) and, while I am pretty well satisfied with the current stage and imaging, I could use a little more bass and a lot more output gain via the pre-outs.
   
  Thanks,
  SeeHear


----------



## Ultrainferno

I think the RCA 6AS7G will give you more bass as your 6080, but if you want more power you should go for the 7236/5998/2399 tubes imho


----------



## rocknrolldoctor

Woo lists the
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]5998 and 7236 as having greater power than other power tubes in the manual for a WA22[/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small]When I added a pair of  Sylvaina 7236s made a big difference..[/size][/size]


----------



## setamp

Question for 596 owners.  How long do these tubes take to fully burn in?  I rolled in a set into my Decware CSP2+ and Taboo and they sound a bit thin and grainy in the upper mids.  Sounds like a burn-in issue.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Question for 596 owners.  How long do these tubes take to fully burn in?  I rolled in a set into my Decware CSP2+ and Taboo and they sound a bit thin and grainy in the upper mids.  Sounds like a burn-in issue.


 
   
  I'd say give it 60-100 hours. Beyond that time the sound seemed pretty consistent to me.


----------



## setamp

Thanks.  I assume with burn-in the upper mids will smooth out and the tonal balance will become more linear?


----------



## DarknightDK

Yes, that has been my experience. The treble will sound less harsh and grainy.


----------



## kchew

I didn't really hear any burn-in effects with the 596, it sounded pretty darn good out of the box.
   
  To bump the thread, have some Beautiful British Bulbs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I didn't really hear any burn-in effects with the 596, it sounded pretty darn good out of the box.
> 
> To bump the thread, have some Beautiful British Bulbs.


 
   
  A fine selection, indeed. My '596' was highly selective about drive tubes, but otherwise sounded fine right out of the box.


----------



## Icenine2

Clayton,
   
  Have you tried Zombie Dust IPA yet?  Ooooooooooooooooooooooo..................Beer.................
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That's great. I see that you got the WA2 to perform to your excellent standards. Now which headphones are the best with your the new improved WA2?
> 
> Well, that gives me about a year to find those great Chocolates from the States. Forget the beer from here. I'll pay for an all-you-can-drink evening at In de Wilderman.
> 
> This is the beer I had in Vondelpark. I liked it. But really, any beer would have been great on that hot August day in the park.


----------



## niten

Slightly off-topic, but I can't resist mentioning that I spotted a Woo Audio tube amp in the background of Harvey's office in episode 1 of Suits.
  I was proud of that catch, and wanted to share with fellow Woo Audio owners and fans.


----------



## Silent One

Good catch! I had previously pushed for product placement of WooAudio amps in film/tv. Originally, I felt Will Gardner of "The Good Wife" _would have been perfect. _By the way, which model was it?


----------



## dminches

Will is definitely a tube kind of guy.


----------



## longbowbbs

I thought I saw a Prima Luna in the remake of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo last summer.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





kchew said:


> To be honest, most of my tubes came from ebay, but some came from vacuumtubes.net
> 
> For the rectifier, perhaps you can start off with the Mullard CV378, which is $120 at Well Audio at Burlington Square. If the U52 is electrically equivalent to the 5U4G, then the normal Tung Sol or RCA 5U4Gs can be a good starting alternative.


 
  If CV378 cost you $120. I am sure I will take GZ34 or EML 5u4g anytime depends on your sonic taste.


----------



## niten

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good catch! I had previously pushed for product placement of WooAudio amps in film/tv. Originally, I felt Will Gardner of "The Good Wife" _would have been perfect. _By the way, which model was it?


 
  I can't be sure until I double check, but I would guess it was the WES.
  I'll edit in once i've double checked.
   
  Edit-- I did my homework and checked the episode over and although it may look like a WES, upon closer inspection I cannot see the stax connections. Also, looking through Woo audio's lineup again I noticed that (unfortunately) none of the headphone tube amps matches the description: Two silver knobs, single headphone jack in the center, and four identically sized tubes across the top.
   
  Long story short, looks like my first foray into sharp-eyed amp identifier was a failure.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





niten said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you have the ability to grab a frame (screen capture), this thread will figure it out...


----------



## niten

silent one said:


> If you have the ability to grab a frame (screen capture), this thread will figure it out...:wink_face:




That sounds fun.
I'll find time tomorrow to post up the screenshot.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





niten said:


> Slightly off-topic, but I can't resist mentioning that I spotted a Woo Audio tube amp in the background of Harvey's office in episode 1 of Suits.
> I was proud of that catch, and wanted to share with fellow Woo Audio owners and fans.


 
   
  Although not plugged into a Woo there are loads of  tubes used as props in and out of radio kit in the 1st season of Falling Skies


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Clayton,
> 
> Have you tried Zombie Dust IPA yet?  Ooooooooooooooooooooooo..................Beer.................


 
   
  I have not. But I have switched from tube rolling to beer (barrel) rolling.  I also like St. Bernardus Wit. I visited the tavern a few days after I handed the WA2 to Ultrainferno and grabbed a St. Bernardus Wit at the suggestion of the Beer-tender.


----------



## longbowbbs

This forum has more great looking glass in it...


----------



## setamp

I burned in my 596's for ~60 hours and rolled in some different driver tubes and WOW!!!!!!  My sound has never been better.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





setamp said:


> I burned in my 596's for ~60 hours and rolled in some different driver tubes and WOW!!!!!!  My sound has never been better.


 
   
  Are those the 596 you got from me? You've been patient!
  I still have two 596 tubes here, seeing Keph disappeared. Also thinking of selling 6 of my stock of NOS 2399 tubes...


----------



## setamp

Yes, Ultrainferno.  They are the tubes I got from you.  I finally received my adapters this week.  I cannot believe how well they work in my Decware rig.  Thank you!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





setamp said:


> I burned in my 596's for ~60 hours and rolled in some different driver tubes and WOW!!!!!!  My sound has never been better.


 
   
  Ah, yes..._the Mighty 596._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  (Silent One picks up tea tin marked "Audio." Holds it upside down...discovers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's empty.)


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I have not. But I have switched from tube rolling to beer (barrel) rolling.  I also like St. Bernardus Wit. I visited the tavern a few days after I handed the WA2 to Ultrainferno and grabbed a St. Bernardus Wit at the suggestion of the Beer-tender.


 
  nice


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Yes, Ultrainferno.  They are the tubes I got from you.  I finally received my adapters this week.  I cannot believe how well they work in my Decware rig.  Thank you!


 
  What Decware are you using?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so hows every1 @ the woo forums doing ?
   
  haven't been on head-fi much the past few months (probably since like late june/july).
   
  been checking the threads though every couple weeks or so. 
  been really enjoying the T1/WA2 and am considering selling my rs1 again. the t1 have really grown on me and i can definitely say now they are my favorite headphone for just about everything, rap and electronic included.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so hows every1 @ the woo forums doing ?
> 
> haven't been on head-fi much the past few months (probably since like late june/july).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good to hear that you have moved into a different spot with the T1's; new appreciation.


----------



## setamp

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> What Decware are you using?


 

 My rig is Bryston BDP-1 > EE Minimax Plus > Decware CSP2+ > Decware Taboo > LCD2.1


----------



## longbowbbs

^^
  Gorgeous planar setup Setamp!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





setamp said:


> My rig is Bryston BDP-1 > EE Minimax Plus > Decware CSP2+ > Decware Taboo > LCD2.1


 
   
  Have you tried listening to the LCD2s without the CSP2+? If so, how does that compare to the sound with both the Decware pieces?
   
  My current setup has just the Taboo and LCD-3s.


----------



## keph

Glad that everyone is happy with the 596 converters i provided ( care for some pics ). i have not listen to my set-up for already almost 2 weeks and now im back in Indonesia again for a Wedding ceremony..
   
  Can't wait to go back to Beijing, and some new toys are coming soon such as the Mjolnir and a Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy USB cable that i just bought off a fellow Head-Fi'er..
   
  Can't wait!!!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





setamp said:


> My rig is Bryston BDP-1 > EE Minimax Plus > Decware CSP2+ > Decware Taboo > LCD2.1


 
   
  Ahhh Decware combo, wish i have one. I tried contacting Decware few weeks ago and they said that i have to wait 16 weeks or more for the CSP2 and the Taboo..if not i would have them instead of the Mjolnir.
   
  The only reason i bought the Mjolnir is that i want to try a SS amp and a fully balanced set-up.


----------



## Magick Man

My WES is settling in well, or I'm adjusting to its sound. I couldn't be happier with it. It has a perfect blend of euphonics and presence with my 009s and 4070s, while still keeping all the detail. It isn't a perfect mate with my 007s, but that's what my SRM-717 is for.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Glad that everyone is happy with the 596 converters i provided ( care for some pics ). i have not listen to my set-up for already almost 2 weeks and now im back in Indonesia again for a Wedding ceremony..
> 
> Can't wait to go back to Beijing, and some new toys are coming soon such as the Mjolnir and a Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy USB cable that i just bought off a fellow Head-Fi'er..
> 
> Can't wait!!!


 
   
  It's good to hear you're still with us...enjoy your toys, as well as the current event!


----------



## keph

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's good to hear you're still with us...enjoy your toys, as well as the current event!


 
   
  Once a Woosie always a Woosie...hehe
   
  Thanks SO


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





keph said:


> Glad that everyone is happy with the 596 converters i provided ( care for some pics ). i have not listen to my set-up for already almost 2 weeks and now im back in Indonesia again for a Wedding ceremony..
> 
> Can't wait to go back to Beijing, and some new toys are coming soon such as the Mjolnir and a Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy USB cable that i just bought off a fellow Head-Fi'er..
> 
> Can't wait!!!


 
  I want your frequent flier miles, Keph!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





keph said:


> Ahhh Decware combo, wish i have one. I tried contacting Decware few weeks ago and they said that i have to wait 16 weeks or more for the CSP2 and the Taboo..if not i would have them instead of the Mjolnir.
> 
> The only reason i bought the Mjolnir is that i want to try a SS amp and a fully balanced set-up.


 
  I ordered my CSP2+ July 13th and I should have it by next week.   Long wait for cool toys....


----------



## setamp

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Have you tried listening to the LCD2s without the CSP2+? If so, how does that compare to the sound with both the Decware pieces?
> 
> My current setup has just the Taboo and LCD-3s.


 

 I have not tried the Taboo without the CSP2+ as I received the + first and as soon as the Taboo arrived I plugged it in and began tailoring my sound.  I am afraid to change anything right now because it sounds sooooooo good - very real.


----------



## longbowbbs

setamp said:


> I have not tried the Taboo without the CSP2+ as I received the + first and as soon as the Taboo arrived I plugged it in and began tailoring my sound.  I am afraid to change anything right now because it sounds sooooooo good - very real.




We should take the conversation to the Decware appreciation thread....


----------



## bbophead

Anyone know anything about the new WA7?


----------



## Wapiti

Only what Jack posted elsewhere, replete with the subsequent question as to whether he intends to indicate it is being introduced this year or next.  It will be an interesting product.


----------



## bbophead

New pics on his announcement thread.


----------



## john57

It was a typo, this year. I may get a chance to see this on Saturday.
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Only what Jack posted elsewhere, replete with the subsequent question as to whether he intends to indicate it is being introduced this year or next.  It will be an interesting product.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> It was a typo, this year. I may get a chance to see this on Saturday.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Please do, john57. And squeeze estimated retail price and whether auto/manual upsampling from the box as well. Thanks, sir!


----------



## grokit

Drool...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Really? I really don't like its design :s


----------



## grokit

It *Woo*ld make an awesome bedside or secondary rig with the right headphone IMO.


----------



## sunmonkey

I'm with The Grokit.
   
  The WA7 is a beautiful piece of kit. Looks to be just the thing I need while traveling abroad: small, not too heavy (less than the _6SE_), high-quality, and pleasant on the eyeballs.
   
  (Hopefully the Woo thread has a drain cut into the bottom, to leach out the drool. Didn't someone sink one of those in here in the early days, around page 440?)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Really? I really don't like its design :s


 
   
  It has a built-in DAC. I wonder if the transparent tube protector will discolor from the heat over time.


----------



## longbowbbs

Kinda reminds me of the Apple Cube PC....


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Really? I really don't like its design :s


 
   
  Well, to each their own. I like the simplicity of it. It also seems like it would just blend into the scenery, very low key. 
   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I wonder if the transparent tube protector will discolor from the heat over time.


 
   
  Is it glass or plastic? Seems dangerous if plastic. If it is glass I imagine you could remove, clean and pop it back on. Or fill it with batter and bake muffins.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Kinda reminds me of the Apple Cube PC....


 
  x2. I still have one of those. It is boxed and in storage.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Drool...


 
   
  $895-$1095?




   
  And just one more thing..._mine would have to be Black @ any price._


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Kinda reminds me of the Apple Cube PC....


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2. I still have one of those. It is boxed and in storage.


 
   
   
  X3, my favorite Apple case design from an aesthetic standpoint. Too bad it was such a POS.


----------



## solserenade

holy toledo man .... that glass on top is the sickest thing ever!   (with chamfered edge)


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





sunmonkey said:


> Is it glass or plastic? Seems dangerous if plastic. If it is glass I imagine you could remove, clean and pop it back on. Or *fill it with batter* and bake muffins.


 
   
  LMAO ! I didn't 'get it' the first time I read it.


----------



## Magick Man

grokit said:


> X3, my favorite Apple case design from an aesthetic standpoint. Too bad it was such a POS.




With the OWC CPU and GeForce 6200 upgrades they were stout, but otherwise, meh.


----------



## grokit

The Cube at 10: Why Apple's eye-catching desktop flopped
   
Apple's Cube was ahead of its time
   
   
  Two perspectives, both true.


----------



## Magick Man

True that. I still have my Cube, I bought it used for a fraction of retail and then did the upgrades, got a matching used 22" Cinema display for it too. It still works well and makes a great word processor and DB client in the library (very very quiet machine). When it eventually croaks, I'll turn it into a fancy fishbowl for my betas.


----------



## Ahzari

Gotta say I'm not a fan of the WA7 in its current form - to me it looks cheap; I really like the aesthetic of the current Woo lineup - industrial, rugged, well built. The WA7 doesnt give me that - and its not just the odd glass on the top but the very noticeable screws on the sides and no mention of Woo Audio on the aluminum - I'm assuming this is some sort of prototype, maybe the final product will be more to the standard of Jack Wu's other products.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

eeew...i don't like how it looks either. doesn't really look impressive or anything,, doesn't have that bold signature style that the other amps have. looks more like a cheap DIY imo. just way too plain and boxy.
   
  maybe get rid of the glass for the tubes, round out the edges, and put a woo audio logo on it and it would look better.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> eeew...i don't like how it looks either. doesn't really look impressive or anything,, doesn't have that bold signature style that the other amps have. looks more like a cheap DIY imo. just way too plain and boxy.
> 
> maybe get rid of the glass for the tubes, round out the edges, and put a woo audio logo on it and it would look better.


 
   
  Exactly! This also clearly is a competitor to the recently launched, good looking, ALO PanAm.


----------



## sunmonkey

I'm a creative director by trade, so I know better than to get into a battle over aesthetics. 
   
  I'm hoping that the simplicity of the casing for the WA7 is based in a desire to keep the price (and weight) down. There is a juicy market niche in one box 'office' solutions I think Woo would do well to explore, right in the 400-600 range. They have the WA3 and WA6, but even stripped down those are beasts and limited in their functionality (they are 'just' amps), and relatively big and heavy when compared to other solutions. If I imagine one of them on my work desktop, I can also imagine the resulting paper fires, electrocuted and burnt coworkers, and having to open up an auxiliary desk to store stuff on.
   
  The aesthetic break from the "old" Woo designs and the WA7 might indicate a shift in how the WA7 is perceived: smaller, simpler, less costly. Less of a museum piece and more of a everyday utility thing, sitting quietly in the back corner of a desk. If that is true then I'd imagine the goal of the design was to make the unit low key. 
   
  And to fall back on that old familiar chestnut: it's all about how it sounds, right?   Hell no, says the creative director. Form AND function, please!


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Exactly! This also clearly is a competitor to the recently launched, good looking, ALO PanAm.


 
   
  Duh on me. I just saw this, and I should just +1 it rather than writing a rant.


----------



## longbowbbs

Definitely a big market developing quickly when two top firms move in the same direction....Good news for all of us too.


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Definitely a big market developing quickly when two top firms move in the same direction....Good news for all of us too.


 
   
  The starting price of the WA7 at $777 (cute, Woo, very cute) has me a bit worried.  I would have seriously considered it at $500, but at almost $800 I think I'd tap out. The ALO was already pushing the limit at $600, and that unit has some additional pluses - a smaller size relative to the WA7, and the external power and battery options.
   
  People in the announcement thread seemed to dig the design, while here it seems split. The black version looks pretty good, especially with the screened logos and labels.
   
  Peh. We'll see what the reviews are like!


----------



## longbowbbs

It does have the DAC built in as well. Generally other high end DAC/Amp combos are $800 or more....


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It does have the DAC built in as well. Generally other high end DAC/Amp combos are $800 or more....


 
   
  Thanks for the comment, longbowbbs.
   
  I'm comparing the WA7 against the ALO PanAm, which is tube amp and DAC in one box for $600. Since I already own a WA6SE, spending another $800 on a second rig of questionable portability is a tough choice. I'd probably save the money and get a dedicated DAC. That also keeps my upgrade paths independent and a wee bit easier to manage. 
   
  I guess I am looking at the WA7 as a secondary system (office, bedroom) and I'm having a hard time justifying the expense. Obviously, it's a personal preference.


----------



## snapple10

some Woo time. 
  I need to turn it on more


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> some Woo time.
> I need to turn it on more


 
   
  Indeed, snapple10, INDEED.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> some Woo time.
> I need to turn it on more


 
  nice!
   
  btw how have u been? haven't talked to u in a while


----------



## snapple10

fine. and you? sending you a PM now


----------



## Dubstep Girl

been okay, holding off on any new headphones purchases for a while. 
   
  the T1/WA2 do just about everything right. 
   
  the LCD-2 is used sometimes for rap/electronic. on some songs, it seems to have a ton of bass slam. not as much sub-bass but they really surprise me sometimes.


----------



## K_19

So I turned on my WA6SE today to do some listening with my HD800 and damn... my EML 5U4G rectifier wouldn't turn on. No response with the rectifier but the power tubes turned on fine. Turned the amp off, removed the rectifier and replaced it with another 5U4G I had in stock... worked fine. I guess my EML's burned out here?... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Didn't use it that much I have to say... only 1-2 hour listening sessions every day for a last year/year and a half or so. Didn't notice any weird behavious with my last listening session either.
   
  Loved the sound of the rectifier itself so definitely would get it again but I'd like to ask if these quality control problems over at EML have been fixed? (I doubt it's the amp that's the problem, since although my amp is an early prototype WA6SE, the 5U4G's are supposed to be their default rectifier). If they're going to burn out every year for me like this it may be too pricey of an investment to make...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> So I turned on my WA6SE today to do some listening with my HD800 and damn... my EML 5U4G rectifier wouldn't turn on. No response with the rectifier but the power tubes turned on fine. Turned the amp off, removed the rectifier and replaced it with another 5U4G I had in stock... worked fine. I guess my EML's burned out here?...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Pssst! You...over there...with the Canadian Maple Syrup! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (love that syrup!) Whether you return to EML Glass or no, invest in a United Electronics USAF-596 rectifier. You'd be wise to have both in your portfolio.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Pssst! You...over there...with the Canadian Maple Syrup!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  May make myself some Pancake to go with that syrup tm morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Is that rectifier a direct replacement for 5U4G? As my unit is a prototype model, it's extremely limited in what tubes it can use (even 274B for example is not possible without damaging the tube in the long run).
   
  For now, I substituted in my long-forgotten Mullard 5U4G's and well.. now I'm wondering whether I should invest in a new rectifier at all for now... seriously, these may be just as good. The main difference between the EML I'm noticing is a smaller soundstage with the Mullards, and maybe a tad less high end extension, but they sound just as good elsewhere and am seriously pondering whether the EML is $240 better...
   
  Oh Yeah, the Mullards don't glow like the EML's and are much less pretty... that I DO miss...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  And I, waffles! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My own WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition_ was a late model. I went on a Sophia Princess 274B > EML 5U4G > USAF-596 run. You would need an adapter for the USAF-596 at any rate. Best person to chat with would be 2359glenn. Though, I own one of his custom builds now, he introduced this thread to the USAF-596 rectifier.
   
  What's more, 2359glenn originally did so to resolve the thread starter's problem of blowing up EML Glass with his WA5LE! Send him a PM when you've the chance...cheers!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I posted some audio  impressions of the WA7 in the RMAF impressions thread.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/623236/rocky-mountain-audiofest-denver-co-oct-12-14th-2012
   
  This thing is freaking heavy, and solidly built.  It's better looking in person than in photos, and the black one has a nice "Ying/Yang" feel to it.  I would not write this off based on looks alone.


----------



## sunmonkey

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I posted some audio  impressions of the WA7 in the RMAF impressions thread.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/623236/rocky-mountain-audiofest-denver-co-oct-12-14th-2012


 
   
  Thanks a lot for the WA7 notes, Headphone Addict (as well as your entire write-up on the Audiofest!) Very intriguing!


----------



## Silent One

The Black one is starting to grow on me. Being the friendly chap I am, I'll stand by the exit waiting to help early adopters to their cars. 
   
   
  @sunmonkey - that's a serious looking machine you're rolling with inside your avatar!


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I posted some audio  impressions of the WA7 in the RMAF impressions thread.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/623236/rocky-mountain-audiofest-denver-co-oct-12-14th-2012
> 
> This thing is freaking heavy, and solidly built.  It's better looking in person than in photos, and the black one has a nice "Ying/Yang" feel to it.  I would not write this off based on looks alone.


 
  I read some of your comments - thanks for sharing. I find it to be quite a feat if Woo was able to make something as lush as the WA6 and as powerful as the WA6SE + a dac for the $750ish price... Looking forward to demo-ing it some time in the future, though even with more pics being released I just can't wrap my head around/or like the complete shift in design for the WA7.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm still waiting to learn more about the power supply. And yes, I'd like to see it, too! First glance will be with a discerning eye...with a _tweaked_ glance to follow quickly thereafter!


----------



## bmichels

Gentlemen, i have a dilema : i am hesitating between the WA5 and Eddie Current Ballancing Act. . I thé BA i like thé ballanced In-out and thé Pré-amp function. But thé WOO...  ! 

-->. Any recommendation ?

Also, is it really necessary with thé WOO to get thé tube or parts upgrade ? Dose it make à real " sonic différence " ? If yes, what is the most usefull recommended upgrade ? 

Many thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's moving time and I decided I won't be taking all my tubes with me to my new house. As a result I will sell 6 more NOS 2399/5998 tubes and maybe two 596 UE tubes (unless Keph still wants them) . I figured I'd give the Woo guys a heads up first.
   
  PM me if you're interested. Serious offers only .
   
_Update: The 596 tubes are spoken for already!_. The 2399/5998 tubes are still available


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





bmichels said:


> Gentlemen, i have a dilema : i am hesitating between the WA5 and Eddie Current Ballancing Act. . I thé BA i like thé ballanced In-out and thé Pré-amp function. But thé WOO...  !
> -->. Any recommendation ?
> Also, is it really necessary with thé WOO to get thé tube or parts upgrade ? Dose it make à real " sonic différence " ? If yes, what is the most usefull recommended upgrade ?
> Many thanks


 
  A couple years ago I rotated Uncle Eric's Zana Deux into my system using a stock Woo 5LE and it was truly amazing how much I loved the sound. The two sounded way closer than I would have guessed. Hope this helps you.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> It's moving time and I decided I won't be taking all my tubes with me to my new house. As a result I will sell 6 more NOS 2399/5998 tubes and maybe two 596 UE tubes (unless Keph still wants them). I figured I'd give the Woo guys a heads up first.


 
   
  Good luck on your move! I know how tedious that can get. I've just spent 2 weeks cleaning out my apartment and no move was involved except that the WA4 went from the bedroom to the living room. And I've still go so much more to get rid of.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Good luck on your move! I know how tedious that can get. I've just spent 2 weeks cleaning out my apartment and no move was involved except that the WA4 went from the bedroom to the living room. And I've still go so much more to get rid of.


 
   
  Well if you need to get rid of some more amps, there's plenty of space in the new house


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Well if you need to get rid of some more amps, there's plenty of space in the new house


 
   
  You'd be the first to know. Then again, you'd have to rewire your new home for 110-120v. How else, eh? BTW, does my Belgian room have a view?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You'd be the first to know. Then again, you'd have to rewire your new home for 110-120v. How else, eh? BTW, does my Belgian room have a view?


 
   
  It does, and a jacuzzi in the room next to it!
  Btw, I have 220 to 110 blocks for the american gear now


----------



## bmichels

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> A couple years ago I rotated Uncle Eric's Zana Deux into my system using a stock Woo 5LE and it was truly amazing how much I loved the sound. The two sounded way closer than I would have guessed. Hope this helps you.


 
  Thanks for the Answer.  
  But... Since I am not native English speaking, I am not sure I understand what you mean by "I rotated Uncle Eric's Zana Deux into my system using a stock Woo 5LE".
  Do you mean you replaced the Zanz Deux by the WOO or you had them working together ? 
   
  And if the Zana Deux is at the level of the WA5, then, the Ballancing act should be above in another league ?  no ?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





bmichels said:


> Thanks for the Answer.
> But... Since I am not native English speaking, I am not sure I understand what you mean by "I rotated Uncle Eric's Zana Deux into my system using a stock Woo 5LE".
> Do you mean you replaced the Zanz Deux by the WOO or you had them working together ?
> 
> And if the Zana Deux is at the level of the WA5, then, the Ballancing act should be above in another league ?  no ?


 
  At a Head-Fi meet there was another Head-Fi member who owned an E.C. Zana Deux. I replaced my stock Woo 5 LE with his Zana Deux headphone amp and used all other equipment I owned, so it was a good comparison to what I was used to. I simply switched amps to hear the difference between the two, with all other variables being the same.
   
  The two amps both sounded very close to the same. Not sure about a Balancing Act though.


----------



## Xcalibur255

HeadphoneAddict, did you catch which tubes the WA7 is using?  It doesn't like like the same small triodes they use in the WA6/WA6SE so it got me curious.  They look like pentodes to me from the pictures.  I'm guessing it has SS rectification too.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





bmichels said:


> Thanks for the Answer.
> But... Since I am not native English speaking, I am not sure I understand what you mean by "I rotated Uncle Eric's Zana Deux into my system using a stock Woo 5LE".
> Do you mean you replaced the Zanz Deux by the WOO or you had them working together ?
> 
> And if the Zana Deux is at the level of the WA5, then, the Ballancing act should be above in another league ?  no ?


 
   
  Check out these two reviews, worthwhile reading as I had to make the same choice as you 2 years back.
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/eddiecurrent3/1.html
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wooaudio/5.html
   
  The general feel I have read on the web is that the EC BA is one notch sonically above the WA5 and I stress "one" but the WA5 is the "swiss army knife" being able to drive K1000, Speakers, looking neater/better inside and out (IMHO) and I think slightly cheaper? Not sure if thats still the case mind.
   
  One thing I think the EC BA has going for it is you only need 1 6SN7 which makes things cheaper rolling in tubes.
   
  Good luck!


----------



## bmichels

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Check out these two reviews, worthwhile reading as I had to make the same choice as you 2 years back.
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/eddiecurrent3/1.html
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the links.  
   
  And so.... which one did you choosed for yourself ?   With which headphone do you use it ?   Still happy with your choice ? 
   
  And also, don't  you think that the Ballanced output can do any sonic improvement (with re-wired heaphone ballanced) ?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





san raal said:


> Check out these two reviews, worthwhile reading as I had to make the same choice as you 2 years back.
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/eddiecurrent3/1.html
> 
> ...


 
  The fact that you could move into 10W full range speakers, which seem to be the rage now.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





xcalibur255 said:


> HeadphoneAddict, did you catch which tubes the WA7 is using?  It doesn't like like the same small triodes they use in the WA6/WA6SE so it got me curious.  They look like pentodes to me from the pictures.  I'm guessing it has SS rectification too.


 
   
  Jack Wu told us over dinner Friday night, and I forget what he said, but either Fang Bian or Ray Samuels said they were very good tubes.  It's not tubes used in previous amps.  I do know it's a class-A single ended triode amp.  I'd actually want to know more about the DAC.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What could you tell us about the power supply? Thanks.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> It's moving time and I decided I won't be taking all my tubes with me to my new house. As a result I will sell 6 more NOS 2399/5998 tubes and maybe two 596 UE tubes (unless Keph still wants them) . I figured I'd give the Woo guys a heads up first.
> 
> PM me if you're interested. Serious offers only .
> 
> _Update: The 596 tubes are spoken for already!_. The 2399/5998 tubes are still available


 
   
  Update: Only 4 NOS 2399/5998 tubes left. You better be quick...


----------



## bmichels

OK, OK, you almost convinced me to go for the WA5 instead of the EDBA.
   
But....is it really necessary with the WOO to get the tube or parts upgrade ? Dose it make à real " sonic différence " ? If yes, *what are the most usefull recommended upgrade*  (All the upgrades together add to + 3000$, which bring the WOO above the Electrostatic solution !!  so, which one are really recommended ) ?

Many thanks


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





bmichels said:


> OK, OK, you almost convinced me to go for the WA5 instead of the EDBA.
> 
> But....is it really necessary with the WOO to get the tube or parts upgrade ? Dose it make à real " sonic différence " ? If yes, *what are the most usefull recommended upgrade*  (All the upgrades together add to + 3000$, which bring the WOO above the Electrostatic solution !!  so, which one are really recommended ) ?
> 
> Many thanks


 
   
  IMO the tube upgrades are a must specially the 300B and rectifiers. The one I audition before ordering mine had Sophia with RCA drivers and sounded very good. I am running EML 300B, Tugnsol 6F8G and USFA 596 and IMO sound great.
   
  I did go all the way with parts upgrades, sockets upgrade and even send Jack the wire for internal wiring (OCC Copper Neotech) and Cards Eutectic solder. Later I upgraded the umbilical cord to one made out of the same Neotech OCC Copper chassis wire.
   
  I love my WA5-LE.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> IMO the tube upgrades are a must specially the 300B and rectifiers. The one I audition before ordering mine had Sophia with RCA drivers and sounded very good. I am running EML 300B, Tugnsol 6F8G and USFA 596 and IMO sound great.
> 
> I did go all the way with parts upgrades, sockets upgrade and even send Jack the wire for internal wiring (OCC Copper Neotech) and Cards Eutectic solder. Later I upgraded the umbilical cord to one made out of the same Neotech OCC Copper chassis wire.
> 
> I love my WA5-LE.


 
  This is a serious definition of "Hobby" how cool is it that the builder will accomodate the buyer with specific changes of even internal wire....I love this stuff!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> This is a serious definition of "Hobby" how cool is it that the builder will accomodate the buyer with specific changes of even internal wire....I love this stuff!


 
  When you are dealing with small companies and mainly handmade or assembled products there is more flexibility.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What could you tell us about the power supply? Thanks.


 
   
  Even less.  Sorry.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Was the separate power supply in view - what does it look like?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Was the separate power supply in view - what does it look like?


 
   
  No idea.  All I cared about was the sound and didn't think to look under the table.


----------



## grokit

bmichels said:


> OK, OK, you almost convinced me to go for the WA5 instead of the EDBA.




Congrats, the WA5 is on my very short list of single-ended dream amps. The Balancing Act is also right up there, and besides versatility, don't forget to consider whether or not you have a preference between SE and balanced configurations/cabling options.


----------



## grokit

My first brand new Woo!


----------



## Silent One

WEE-eeee!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're making me sound
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 suspicious! Thanks for your time and excellent contribution, at any rate - felt as if I was walking the floor myself.


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My first brand new Woo!


 
  congrats - nice color


----------



## Xcalibur255

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Jack Wu told us over dinner Friday night, and I forget what he said, but either Fang Bian or Ray Samuels said they were very good tubes.  It's not tubes used in previous amps.  I do know it's a class-A single ended triode amp.  I'd actually want to know more about the DAC.


 

 Interesting.  It is probably another sweep tube used in TVs that nobody has commercialized yet.  The plates just looked like pentodes from the picture, which it could still be.  They could be running them as strapped triodes.


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





bmichels said:


> OK, OK, you almost convinced me to go for the WA5 instead of the EDBA.
> 
> But....is it really necessary with the WOO to get the tube or parts upgrade ? Dose it make à real " sonic différence " ? If yes, *what are the most usefull recommended upgrade*  (All the upgrades together add to + 3000$, which bring the WOO above the Electrostatic solution !!  so, which one are really recommended ) ?
> 
> Many thanks


 
   
  As others have said the best upgrades are tube upgrades, however these can be upgraded later, its simpler to get any parts upgrades earlier whilst the unit is being built than returning and retrofitting later on.
   
  As for the parts themselves, I prefer Mundorf SIO coupling caps over the V-Caps. Personally I don't think much of the Woo teflon socket upgrade (Mine have become very loose after light tube rolling!)
   
  In my experience an amp is only ever as good as its power supply so I'd advise PSU cap upgrade if your budget will stretch.
   
  As an FYI, on the tube front I use Takatsuki 300B, EML 5U4G mesh and either Tungsol 12SN7 or RCA 12SX7 or Shuggy CV181 depending on my mood  (I have an adapter that allows me to use 12V tubes)


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





san raal said:


> As others have said the best upgrades are tube upgrades, however these can be upgraded later, its simpler to get any parts upgrades earlier whilst the unit is being built than returning and retrofitting later on.
> 
> As for the parts themselves, I prefer Mundorf SIO coupling caps over the V-Caps. Personally I don't think much of the Woo teflon socket upgrade (Mine have become very loose after light tube rolling!)
> 
> ...


 
  If I was to order A W5LE again I would get the volume knob upgrade if it still offered. It seems the entire signal travels through it, if I have my facts down straight. I also would not order it with the stock tubes. They were OK and all but you can put a little extra money towards tube upgrades as to keep the original tubes can be redundant if you never use them. Just put the money into the tubes your going to use all the time.
   
   
  Edit..
   
_Not seeing a stepped attenuator upgrade so maybe they are not available now days?_


----------



## Silent One

Like any other store or restaurant, _if you don't see it, ask for it. _


----------



## Calle

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have bought a Woo Audio WA5-LE (and a Woo Wes is here in 3 weeks) and I am wondering which tubes give a warm signature? I have read loads of threads about tube rolling but I don't understand all these numbers and letters. Could someone please explain this to me? Or better yet, is there a place where I can read up on the different tubes kinda like tubes 101.
   
  Again, sorry for hijacking the thread.


----------



## SeeHear

Woo in Print!
   
  I was looking through Home Theater this morning and discovered the back page devoted to Woo's mono block amp!
  There is a nice shot of the WA234s with the transport-D2A combo in the background.  Very favorable review.
  
   
  What's interesting is they don't seem to have actually listened to it!  Go figure...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Like any other store or restaurant, _if you don't see it, ask for it. _


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Woo in Print!
> 
> I was looking through Home Theater this morning and discovered the back page devoted to Woo's mono block amp!
> There is a nice shot of the WA234s with teh transport=D2A combo in the background.  Very favorable review.
> ...


 
  I noticed that as well....Funny it is eye candy only since every mag seems to be hopping on the Headphone train lately.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Marketing. And Jack Wu is working it.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





calle said:


> Sorry to hijack this thread but I have bought a Woo Audio WA5-LE (and a Woo Wes is here in 3 weeks) and I am wondering which tubes give a warm signature? I have read loads of threads about tube rolling but I don't understand all these numbers and letters. Could someone please explain this to me? Or better yet, is there a place where I can read up on the different tubes kinda like tubes 101.
> 
> Again, sorry for hijacking the thread.


 
  You are in no way thread hijacking.  this is exactly one of the things this thread is for.
  Congrats on the awesome amp.
  wish i could help you, but welcome to the club!
  someone will surely come along with help.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> If I was to order A W5LE again I would get the volume knob upgrade if it still offered. It seems the entire signal travels through it, if I have my facts down straight. I also would not order it with the stock tubes. They were OK and all but you can put a little extra money towards tube upgrades as to keep the original tubes can be redundant if you never use them. Just put the money into the tubes your going to use all the time.
> 
> 
> Edit..
> ...


 
   
  I don't think he was offering a stepped attenuator but he can install a RK50 for about $700. The chassis needs some modification in order to fit it. When I was about to order mine I aske Jack if the improvement was significant to justified the $700 premium. His answer was that I would notice a difference in the mechanical movement (smoother) but woul dbe very difficult to hear a signifficant difference.
  I decided to put the money in other improvement.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





calle said:


> Sorry to hijack this thread but I have bought a Woo Audio WA5-LE (and a Woo Wes is here in 3 weeks) and I am wondering which tubes give a warm signature? I have read loads of threads about tube rolling but I don't understand all these numbers and letters. Could someone please explain this to me? Or better yet, is there a place where I can read up on the different tubes kinda like tubes 101.
> 
> Again, sorry for hijacking the thread.


 
  From the rectifiers I have tried probably the Mullard GZ37 is the warmer one I have tried.
http://thetubestore.com/mullardgz37.html
   
  I have not tried other 330B than my EML 300B Mesh and I really like them.
   
  For drivers there is many you can try. The Mullard ECC32 are very nice but expensive (in the $600 range for a pair). I personally really like the Tungsol round plates/black glass 6F8G (you need an adaptor for these) or 6SN7GT. IMO some good cheaper options are the RCA Gray Glass 6SN7 or the RCA Red Base 5692.
   
  You can read some about the different sounds of 6SN7 tubes here:
http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm


----------



## Bjorkfan

Hi,
   
  I'm interested in the WA2.
  I like the idea that it can be used as a preamp.
  But when I mailed Woo, they don't offer any other upgrades then tubes anymore...
  ...is the WA2 great as it is? (I was quiet interested in the stepped volume pot. and maybe a power supply upgrade if that was available.)
   
  What do you guys think? = )


----------



## Csericks

Have you emailed Jack to see if upgrades are available. Last January when I ordered my WA2 upgrades were said to not be available but Woo was able to deliver an upgraded WA2 just the same.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I don't think he was offering a stepped attenuator but he can install a RK50 for about $700. The chassis needs some modification in order to fit it. When I was about to order mine I aske Jack if the improvement was significant to justified the $700 premium. His answer was that I would notice a difference in the mechanical movement (smoother) but woul dbe very difficult to hear a signifficant difference.
> I decided to put the money in other improvement.


 
  Here is an example of the stepped attenuator option installed. There may be others like Alps that could be purchased.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/552339/woo-audio-wa6se-completely-maxxed-out
   
  They used to be offered on the Woo site when I ordered mine.
   
  Edit...
   
  I got ya the RK50_ is _an Alps!


----------



## Bjorkfan

Quote: 





csericks said:


> Have you emailed Jack to see if upgrades are available. Last January when I ordered my WA2 upgrades were said to not be available but Woo was able to deliver an upgraded WA2 just the same.


 
  Yes, I've even asked twice ;D
   
  What upgrades do you have on yours?
   
  The lates reply I got was: "the internal parts are no longer available since the Black Gate caps was out of production for years."
   
  They could however upgrade the volume control to a DACT stepped attenuator.
   
  I also might be interested in a remote volume control, but I don't know if its worth it(?) and I'm also thinking "less extra features, better sound quality and durability".


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm sad, one of my Sylvania VT-231 in my maxed WA6 is dying.  The right one has started inserting a random low volume crackling sound into the music, intermittently, and when I swap the tubes the sound moves to the opposite side with the tube.  I'm using Glenn's adapters with them, and the VT-231 are a bit more detailed than my old RCA 6DE7.  
   
  I have a set of 6FD7 somewhere, that Jack sold me, so once I find them I can put them in and see how they go.  Skylab had recommended that tube to me.  Otherwise I'm back to my old RCA 6DE7.  I have the older WA6 that can't take the 6EW7, but I do have some spacers that will raise the tubes.  So, if the spacers move the 6EW7 tubes ABOVE the holes in the top plate, then the fatter 6EW7 can be used, right?


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





calle said:


> Sorry to hijack this thread but I have bought a Woo Audio WA5-LE (and a Woo Wes is here in 3 weeks) and I am wondering which tubes give a warm signature? I have read loads of threads about tube rolling but I don't understand all these numbers and letters. Could someone please explain this to me? Or better yet, is there a place where I can read up on the different tubes kinda like tubes 101.
> 
> Again, sorry for hijacking the thread.


 
   
  I've personally feel that the Shuguang CV181 (A 6SN7 equivalent) has a very warm presentation and will add a good dollop of cream to any roll. The Mullard CV181 is also good in this department though prices for these is on the hike!
   
  Of the 300B's I've tried all are warm, just in different shades, if that makes sense?  On the rectifier front, the Mullard GZ34 have a great warm tone without sounding mushy.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





bjorkfan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm interested in the WA2.
> I like the idea that it can be used as a preamp.
> ...


 

 I use my WA2 as a preamp at least as much as a headphone amp.  I am very pleased with it's performance in both roles.  Mine is stock except for second set of preout (to send signal to subwoofer) and a custom pre-out switch.  I've not heard the other volume control options, but the current one does not leave me wanting.  I understand current production units now have a standard switch to turn off the pre-out. 
   
  I'm still waiting for mine - Hint-hint, Jack :^)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  When using the WA2 as a headphone amp, have you ever used an external preamp (separate component from stereo or stand alone unit) out into the Woo?


----------



## grokit

ahzari said:


> grokit said:
> 
> 
> > My first brand new Woo!
> ...




It's the only color for this particular item. It doesn't match my silver WA22 but it sits on top of a black speaker amp so it looks just swell in my rack. It's much bigger and heavier than I would have thought, one inch less wide but the same otherwise as my WA22 without transformers and tubes. And it sounds excellent with the Lambda Pros, they don't seem to take a back seat to my more expensive dynamics at all. Very pleased so far...





musicman59 said:


> calle said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to hijack this thread but I have bought a Woo Audio WA5-LE (and a Woo Wes is here in 3 weeks) and I am wondering which tubes give a warm signature? I have read loads of threads about tube rolling but I don't understand all these numbers and letters. Could someone please explain this to me? Or better yet, is there a place where I can read up on the different tubes kinda like tubes 101.
> ...




Agreed, that's not a hijack at all. More like Hi, Jack (Wu) 

Another good (and closer) place to sort out the wild and wacky world of 6SN7 tubes:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'm sad, one of my Sylvania VT-231 in my maxed WA6 is dying.  The right one has started inserting a random low volume crackling sound into the music, intermittently, and when I swap the tubes the sound moves to the opposite side with the tube.  I'm using Glenn's adapters with them, and the VT-231 are a bit more detailed than my old RCA 6DE7.
> 
> I have a set of 6FD7 somewhere, that Jack sold me, so once I find them I can put them in and see how they go.  Skylab had recommended that tube to me.  Otherwise I'm back to my old RCA 6DE7.  I have the older WA6 that can't take the 6EW7, but I do have some spacers that will raise the tubes.  So, if the spacers move the 6EW7 tubes ABOVE the holes in the top plate, then the fatter 6EW7 can be used, right?


 
   
  How may hours have you logged on your Sylvania?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> How may hours have you logged on your Sylvania?


 
   
  No idea, but I've been using these VT-231 since July 2010 when I bought the adapters.


----------



## Norway

Wonder why Woo is all over the place when it comes to product design. Their transport and dac looks nothing like the old amps, and now they've come out with something really different, the WA7. I think I like that better than the transport and dac design though. Looks like something an Apple fanatic would want next to his Macbook Air.


----------



## grokit

I wonder what kind of amp a Windows fanatic would prefer :rolleyes:


----------



## longbowbbs

SS milled out of a perfect cube of milled aluminum.....


----------



## grokit

That sounds right, a generic box


----------



## thomsen

Hello ..
 Is there someone who can help me with the values ​​of the two small blackcaps that sit in WA6, I can see that the three large states 330 uf 200v, but not the two small.
 thank you in advance claus.


----------



## snapontom

I would like to obtain the USAF 596 rectifier and adaptor.  Thx, Tom


----------



## Norway

Which driver tubes does those of you who have WA6(-SE) enjoy with your USAF-596, and why? I've got a WA6SE and just got the rectifier today, it's used hence burned in.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





norway said:


> Which driver tubes does those of you who have WA6(-SE) enjoy with your USAF-596, and why? I've got a WA6SE and just got the rectifier today, it's used hence burned in.


 
   
  The 6DR7 Series for my ortho headphones...The 6EW7/6FD7 for my other headphones...


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





keph said:


> The 6DR7 Series for my ortho headphones...The 6EW7/6FD7 for my other headphones...


 
   
  Thanks for the great advice! I tried a pair of Rogers 6DR7's and USAF-596 for LCD-3. Great bass extension and control, details all over the place and a wicked sparkle! *WOO*HOOOO!!
   
  Going to give them a go with LCD-2 r1 soon, but hard to put the LCD-3's down right now! 
   

   
   
  Which brands' of 6DR7's have you got, please?


----------



## keph

Quote: 





norway said:


> Thanks for the great advice! I tried a pair of Rogers 6DR7's and USAF-596 for LCD-3. Great bass extension and control, details all over the place and a wicked sparkle! *WOO*HOOOO!!
> 
> Going to give them a go with LCD-2 r1 soon, but hard to put the LCD-3's down right now!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great that you liked the combo..im using the Pinnacle 6DR7..the 6DR7 is amazing with my LCD-2 v.1


----------



## NOMBEDES

WA 22 TUBE RECOMMENDATIONS. 
   
  My WA 22 was shipped with the following tubes:
   
  274B/n          (Shophia Princess)
  6SN7GT        (Gen. Elec)
  7236
   
  What tubes should I stock for back up and/or rolling.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> WA 22 TUBE RECOMMENDATIONS.
> 
> My WA 22 was shipped with the following tubes:
> 
> ...


 
   
  My preference:

 Rectifier - USAF 596 (needs adapter) or EML 5U4G
  Driver - TS BGRP
  Power - TS 7236 for LCDs or GEC 6AS7G for HD800


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





keph said:


> The 6DR7 Series for my ortho headphones...The 6EW7/6FD7 for my other headphones...


 
  +1 6FD7s


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





ahzari said:


> +1 6FD7s


 
   
  Why, what's so good about them?


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





keph said:


> Great that you liked the combo..im using the Pinnacle 6DR7..the 6DR7 is amazing with my LCD-2 v.1


 
   
  Liked? LOVE!  This is the best combo I have heard yet. USAF-596 + 6DR7 + LCD-2 r1 or LCD-3 = PLEASURE. The LCD-2 r1's sound tight, detailed and the midbass is just to die for. The top end is not harsh, just sparkly. Heck, I have a hard time saying which one of the LCD-x I prefer more! Goodness gracious!
   
  Thank you, need to find a pair of those Pinnacles.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





norway said:


> Why, what's so good about them?


 
   
  Try them on..they are good too..but i don't pair them with my LCD2 and HE-500 since its too bass heavy..but the 6FD7 is good with my HD650 and other dynamic headphones that i own...


----------



## Loevhagen

Anyone having first hand experience with WA22 (stock tubes or other) versus the Schiit Mjonir? I have been contemplating for a WA22 for quite some time, but so happy with the Mjolnir I'm unsure if I even bother assessing the WA22 anymore. Need som constructive input from you guys.


----------



## NOMBEDES

WA 22 TUBE RECOMENDATIONS:
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> My preference:
> 
> Rectifier - USAF 596 (needs adapter) or EML 5U4G
> Driver - TS BGRP
> Power - TS 7236 for LCDs or GEC 6AS7G for HD800


 
   
   
  THANKS JC.  Anyone else have some favorites?


----------



## Ahzari

Quote: 





norway said:


> Why, what's so good about them?


 
  Best bass out of all the driver tubes I've tried with the 6SE.


----------



## project86

In case anyone is interested, I posted my review of the Woo WEE at InnerFidelity. In summary - it's a great way to get into an electrostatic system without breaking the bank. Especially if you already own a nicer amp or integrated.


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





keph said:


> Try them on..they are good too..but i don't pair them with my LCD2 and HE-500 since its too bass heavy..but the 6FD7 is good with my HD650 and other dynamic headphones that i own...


 
  Quote: 





ahzari said:


> Best bass out of all the driver tubes I've tried with the 6SE.


 
    
  Ok, thanks to the both of you. Would you mind sharing which brands you enjoy the most? To be honest, I have problems hearing the difference between different brands of 6EW7 and 6DE7. Got two pair of Philico 6FD7 with fat bottles, will try those later 
   
  Think I might need to get a spare of this USAF-596 rectifier, best one yet (out of Mullard {GZ33, G37}, EML 5U4G and some others). The GZ37 with brown base and military markings was airy though, felt like I was floating around in the skies.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Norway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Ok, thanks to the both of you. Would you mind sharing which brands you enjoy the most? To be honest, I have problems hearing the difference between different brands of 6EW7 and 6DE7. Got two pair of Philico 6FD7 with fat bottles, will try those later
> 
> Think I might need to get a spare of this USAF-596 rectifier, best one yet (out of Mullard {GZ33, G37}, EML 5U4G and some others). The GZ37 with brown base and military markings was airy though, felt like I was floating around in the skies.


 
   
  I have The Tung-Sol 6FD7 and other Generic brand 6FD7 the construction and sound is the same as the Tung-Sol..For the 6EW7 i love the Sylvania (fat bottle) the most...


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, project86. I'm looking to make my way through the entry-level doorway with Stax. WooAudio could very well be the host waiting for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





on the other side.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, project86. I'm looking to make my way through the entry-level doorway with Stax. WooAudio could very well be the host waiting for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No problem. I know how intimidating it can be thinking that any decent Stax rig must cost a fortune. Yes, it's still not cheap, but $499 for the WEE plus $580 for the SR-407 is not too terrible (assuming you already own a halfway decent amp or integrated).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





project86 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, additional costs continue to give me pause. Though, if I had committed earlier in the year and suspended other tweaks, I would have completed the transition already.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least both of my amps will not leave reason for pause - both sound wonderful (custom built OTL amp by 2359glenn & a 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000).


----------



## longbowbbs

and the striving continues......


----------



## Silent One

At what point down the road can "Striving" be replaced with "Addiction?"


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not yet.  I went through a phase where I was listening to a vintage Marantz Model 3800 as my pre-amp and I almost used the Woo just for HP.  But, after the initial novelty wore off, I put the Woo back in the system as only pre-amp.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> WA 22 TUBE RECOMENDATIONS:
> 
> 
> 
> THANKS JC.  Anyone else have some favorites?


 
  Rectifiers: Mullard CV378, EML 5U4G Mesh Plate, Mullard GZ33 / CV5745
  Power: Tung-Sol 7236, Tung-Sol 5998, Tung-Sol 6520 (6AS7)
  Drivers: Tung-Sol 6SN7GT Black Glass Round Plate, Tung-Sol 6F8G w/adapter, ECC32 MULLARD, Mullard CV 181, Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boy (3 hole, 1951)
   
  HTH,
  John


----------



## jc9394

nututubes said:


> Rectifiers: Mullard CV378, EML 5U4G Mesh Plate, Mullard GZ33 / CV5745
> Power: Tung-Sol 7236, Tung-Sol 5998, Tung-Sol 6520 (6AS7)
> Drivers: Tung-Sol 6SN7GT Black Glass Round Plate, Tung-Sol 6F8G w/adapter, ECC32 MULLARD, Mullard CV 181, Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boy (3 hole, 1951)
> 
> ...




Don't like the GEC 6AS7G anymore?

OT, hope Sandy will good to you guys.


----------



## Sid-Fi

A local buddy brought over his Schiit Mjolnir a couple of weeks ago and we listened to it and my WA22 through my Audiophilleo2/PurePower and Yulong D18 DAC. We listened to T1, HD800, LCD2.1, and HD 650. 

My honest impression is that the Mjolnir was very impressive and for the price is a much better bargain than the WA22. I preferred my WA22 by a tad, and my buddy preferred the Mjolnir. The Mjolnir was so good for so much less than if I had to start over and buy something I might go that route instead. However, I love my WA22 so much I'm not quite willing to sell it and buy the Mjolnir to save a lot of money. If you already have the Mjolnir, it might be tough to spend all of the extra money to upgrade since I doubt the performance improvement will feel as significant.

Then again, my Yulong D18 DAC is very well known and popular for providing a smooth and warm sound that is still very detailed. I think that my DAC really helps the Mjolnir. If your using a DAC that is more analytical, the Mjolnir might sound a little cold and uninvolving, which might make the WA22 feel like a bigger step up. It's tough since there are so many variables here, but I hope the general impressions help.



loevhagen said:


> Anyone having first hand experience with WA22 (stock tubes or other) versus the Schiit Mjonir? I have been contemplating for a WA22 for quite some time, but so happy with the Mjolnir I'm unsure if I even bother assessing the WA22 anymore. Need som constructive input from you guys.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I hope all of my fellow Woo owners have been well. I haven't posted for a good month or two, so just wanted to say hi.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I hope all of my fellow Woo owners have been well. I haven't posted for a good month or two, so just wanted to say hi.


 
   
  All well...Seems that i'm not the only one missing lately..Glad to have you back..
   
  My Mjolnir is somehow stuck in the Chinese custom since the 16th Oct and haven't receive them till now..Cant't wait to hear the performance..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I hope all of my fellow Woo owners have been well. I haven't posted for a good month or two, so just wanted to say hi.


 
   






 Back to you!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





keph said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 relief!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Don't like the GEC 6AS7G anymore?
> OT, hope Sandy will good to you guys.


 
  John, I honestly haven't listened to the GEC yet. Actually not much WA22 time at all since this past spring. But I will get to listen to all of the inventory one day.
  Sandy will be here in a couple of hours


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> A local buddy brought over his Schiit Mjolnir a couple of weeks ago and we listened to it and my WA22 through my Audiophilleo2/PurePower and Yulong D18 DAC. We listened to T1, HD800, LCD2.1, and HD 650.
> My honest impression is that the Mjolnir was very impressive and for the price is a much better bargain than the WA22. I preferred my WA22 by a tad, and my buddy preferred the Mjolnir. The Mjolnir was so good for so much less than if I had to start over and buy something I might go that route instead. However, I love my WA22 so much I'm not quite willing to sell it and buy the Mjolnir to save a lot of money. If you already have the Mjolnir, it might be tough to spend all of the extra money to upgrade since I doubt the performance improvement will feel as significant.
> Then again, my Yulong D18 DAC is very well known and popular for providing a smooth and warm sound that is still very detailed. I think that my DAC really helps the Mjolnir. If your using a DAC that is more analytical, the Mjolnir might sound a little cold and uninvolving, which might make the WA22 feel like a bigger step up. It's tough since there are so many variables here, but I hope the general impressions help.


 
   
  Very interesting. Which tubes did you use in WA22 when comparing the two?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> John, I honestly haven't listened to the GEC yet. Actually not much WA22 time at all since this past spring. But I will get to listen to all of the inventory one day.
> Sandy will be here in a couple of hours


 
   
  Same here, this year was and still is very busy at work and my toddler is not helping (she likes to push or turn any buttons she can find), the WA22 is currently sitting in the closet.  Using the beta22 most of the time now.
   
  Yup, Sandy will be here really soon.


----------



## Silent One

_Hoping Sandy will lose both energy and interest, sparing all of you..._


----------



## grokit

loevhagen said:


> Anyone having first hand experience with WA22 (stock tubes or other) versus the Schiit Mjonir? I have been contemplating for a WA22 for quite some time, but so happy with the Mjolnir I'm unsure if I even bother assessing the WA22 anymore. Need som constructive input from you guys.




If you can, get them both :veryevil:. They can be used together as the Mjolnir has balanced XLR pre-outs. 

They are also complimentary to each other in a few ways: 

1) Mjolnir will drive harder-to-power headphones like K1000, HE6, while the WA22 features a lower-powered SE output for efficient cans/IEMs.
2) WA22 is Woo's most "euphonic" (responds most dramatically to tube rolling) amp, the Mjolnir is solid state all the way.
3) WA22 has a laid-back sound signature, while the Mjolnir has a (reportedly) more forward sound signature.





nombedes said:


> WA 22 TUBE RECOMENDATIONS:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would also include your Sophia Princess as a top-tier rectifier, second only to the 596 for me (I prefer it to the EML by a slight margin). For driver tubes, the Shuguang Treasure CV181 is very also nice and in current production. And while I concur with the 7236/6AS7G recommendation, I use the Sylvania variant of the 7236 and think it sounds great with the HD800 as well as the LCDs.





silent one said:


> project86 said:
> 
> 
> > silent one said:
> ...




My Stax entry was even less, as my Lambda Pro was $375 shipped including a brand-new set of OE earpads purchased separately. Loving it, today is the first day that I put on a different headphone since I tried the Lambdas. I really like that I can stay in preamp mode with the WA22 and just turn the switch on the WEE to use a different headphone 





silent one said:


> _Hoping Sandy will lose both energy and interest, sparing all of you..._




Yes, stay high and dry Right Coast Woosies!


----------



## grokit

I enjoyed your WEE write-up *Project86*. I sorted through speaker amps first with the HE6, so I did not try it with others but I agree with your assessments for the most part. Of course I am using different Stax headphones, and I have not heard anything at all objectionable through them which I found to be pleasantly surprising. On that note, my only criticism is that I would have liked to have seen a picture of the 404LE that you used included in the article! All in all, I am in full agreement that the WEE is an excellent choice for those looking to test the Stax waters. That's a very good thing, considering it is the only modern interpretation of a Stax energizer available. You mentioned that the WEE was sent to you specifically for review purposes along with the headphones; will you be keeping them?


----------



## project86

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I enjoyed your WEE write-up *Project86*. I sorted through speaker amps first with the HE6, so I did not try it with others but I agree with your assessments for the most part. Of course I am using different Stax headphones, and I have not heard anything at all objectionable through them which I found to be pleasantly surprising. On that note, my only criticism is that I would have liked to have seen a picture of the 404LE that you used included in the article! All in all, I am in full agreement that the WEE is an excellent choice for those looking to test the Stax waters. That's a very good thing, considering it is the only modern interpretation of a Stax energizer available. You mentioned that the WEE was sent to you specifically for review purposes along with the headphones; will you be keeping them?


 
   
  Thanks!
   
  I'm still debating whether or not I'm going to buy this setup from Woo - Jack has graciously let me keep it for another few weeks until I figure out what I'm doing. It all hinges on my amplification situation, which unfortunately is so fluid that it's hard to predict. I only have so much room and I have to really focus on keeping the few items that I use most. The main thing is that closed headphones and IEMs get a lot more use with my family situation. 
   
  That said, if I end up not purchasing it now, I'm certain I'll be "back for more" in the near future. I was considering a maxxed GES and an SR4070 or perhaps all the way to a WES and SR009 when money allows. But the WEE/SR404LE sure does make beautiful music....


----------



## Silent One

grokit said:


> > > Quote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ...


 
   
   
  How's the Bass-Mid-Treble response with those Lambda Pro's? Now you really have me reassessing November tweaks!


----------



## grokit

silent one said:


> How's the Bass-Mid-Treble response with those Lambda Pro's? Now you really have me reassessing November tweaks!




The Lambdas seem to be thought of as a bit of a departure from the signature Stax sound as far as I can tell, they have been said to have a _unique coloration_. I find them to be surprisingly musical in a neutral sort of way. I would say that all three areas of the spectrum are well represented, and overall they sound more dynamic than I would have thought, even punchy at times without being intrusive or fatiguing. The details are definitely there, while the imaging sounds open and unrestricted. Overall a very nice listen and at all as analytical as I had feared or expected. 
It is the first headphone that has made my ears perspire in quite some time but it's not too bad


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let's start with the classifieds and see if my feet stay warm.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I enjoyed your WEE write-up *Project86*. I sorted through speaker amps first with the HE6, so I did not try it with others but I agree with your assessments for the most part. Of course I am using different Stax headphones, and I have not heard anything at all objectionable through them which I found to be pleasantly surprising. On that note, my only criticism is that* I would have liked to have seen a picture of the 404LE that you used included in the article!* All in all, I am in full agreement that the WEE is an excellent choice for those looking to test the Stax waters. That's a very good thing, considering it is the only modern interpretation of a Stax energizer available. You mentioned that the WEE was sent to you specifically for review purposes along with the headphones; will you be keeping them?


 
   
   
  Not sure why, but this comment stuck with me so much that I grabbed a terrible shot with my phone. Does that make up for it?


----------



## grokit

Thanks! 

Those look exactly like my Lambda Pros btw.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah I think you have to look really closely to spot the differences. There are a few instances of "limited edition" branding - on the side of the cups, and the bottoms, and top of the plastic headband frame thingy. Also I think your pad (which touches the head) is a suede type of material, while the 404LE uses a more traditional leather. Were I not so lazy (AKA if I was a better photographer) I'd take some pics but instead I'll link to THIS which has great pics already done.


----------



## Jhawkins

Hi there,
   
  I'm close to getting a WA22.
   
  Does anyone know how the WA22 compares to the WA6-SE, when running an unbalanced signal into the WA22.
   
  Thanks for any advice.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jhawkins said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm close to getting a WA22.
> 
> ...


 
  About on par unbalanced. Balanced, its a whole new ballgame.


----------



## ardilla

Balanced WA22 doubles the wattage due to internal design.


----------



## Loevhagen

The objective story: I have e.g. HE-6 and LCD-3 and they play both very good on the Schiit stack. WA22 is however a tad more intelligent design wise.
   
  Anyone listened to the MA22 and the Mjolinr?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> The objective story: I have e.g. HE-6 and LCD-3 and they play both very good on the Schiit stack. WA22 is however a tad more intelligent design wise.
> 
> Anyone listened to the MA22 and the Mjolinr?


 
  Solude has.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> WA22 is however a tad more intelligent design wise.


 
   
  This must mean something different to you   WA22 is a brute force nothing fancy bridged amp that uses a transformer to sum the output to single ended output.  The Mjolnir is however a piece of art and one of kind, like patent, kind of intelligent.
   
  That aside the two amps couldn't sound more different.  And if I wanted the WA22 more laidback, warm full sound... I'd get the B22 for the improved sound stage.  The Mjolnir is all about clarity and dynamics which in comparison is also less deep down low.


----------



## grokit

I tried the HE6 out of the WA22, not a good match unfortunately. WA5 is the only Woo that can drive it well.


----------



## Jhawkins

Any insight regarding the outputs on the WA22.  
   
  Considering they all output the same signal, is it worth upgrading cables for connection's sake?  I would guess not. 
   
  Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Solude

No.


----------



## Jhawkins

Quote: 





solude said:


> This must mean something different to you   WA22 is a brute force nothing fancy bridged amp that uses a transformer to sum the output to single ended output.  The Mjolnir is however a piece of art and one of kind, like patent, kind of intelligent.
> 
> That aside the two amps couldn't sound more different.  And if I wanted the WA22 more laidback, warm full sound... I'd get the B22 for the improved sound stage.  The Mjolnir is all about clarity and dynamics which in comparison is also less deep down low.


 
   
  Does the WA22 brute force design translate into a negative for the sound quality?


----------



## Solude

No, just not something someone had to invent.  Its a tried and true circuit that's been around for decades.  It just costs too much given the B22 can be had for 900-1500 depending on single ended or balanced.


----------



## Jhawkins

Hi Solude
   
  Can you recommend some other headphone amp's that are available based on the same tried and true circuit?
   
  I just read about the B22 and it looks rather interesting.  I have been thinking about the BottleHead Crack as a diy project.  I like the idea of diy.


----------



## grokit

jhawkins said:


> Any insight regarding the outputs on the WA22.
> 
> Considering they all output the same signal, is it worth upgrading cables for connection's sake? I would guess not.
> 
> Thanks for any advice.




I am firmly in the camp of "it depends on the headphone". Some respond better than others to balanced cabling.


----------



## grokit

solude said:


> No, just not something someone had to invent.  Its a tried and true circuit that's been around for decades.  It just costs too much given the B22 can be had for 900-1500 depending on single ended or balanced.




Can't roll tubes for euphonic variety though. It's an excellent way to spend even more $ :veryevil:


----------



## Jhawkins

Quote: 





grokit said:


> "it depends on the headphone"


 
   
  For now I've got a pair of hd650, and a set of 325is that I am still on the fence about keeping.   
   
  I've been into hi-fi for the past 15 years, but I'm brand new to headphone listening, and turns out I really enjoy the experience.


----------



## grokit

I had a balanced-terminated 325i and didn't think it was worth it. But the HD650 is another story!


----------



## Solude

Let's not confuse balanced drive with balanced cable.  The WA22 outputs L, R and G not L+ L- R+ R-.


----------



## grokit

No confusion, I am talking about how some headphones respond better than others to balanced cabling. With the WA22 if you are using a balanced source you are getting a balanced output:




wooaudio said:


> [COLOR=000000]The WA22 is a fully balanced amp, see diagram below.[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Solude

No you aren't.  You are getting a balanced signal into the transformer BUT single ended out.  Or put another way on one side, +4V and -4V = 8V output.  But the connections are single ended.  The diagram shows that.  Look at where the misleading 3 pin goes... GROUND on the TRS.
   
  All of this ignores that if you pop the top... its wired single ended on ALL jacks.  Case closed


----------



## Solude

I should add... its also THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT   Balanced output with tubes and transformers is dangerous, read fire hazard, unless done right.  I believe Eddie Current builds their balanced transformers around a protection scheme that deals with winding failure.  I'm no transformer expert, Kevin or Craig can explain it better.


----------



## grokit

Since Woo Audio describes the WA22 on its web page as a

*Fully Balanced Headphone Amplifier
Balanced design from input to output, Class-A, All Tube Drive, Output Transformer Coupled*

Maybe you could prove your case to the FTC or whoever can enforce false advertising claims.

Otherwise I'll assume that you're "taking reference from the wrong context" :rolleyes:​
http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa22.html


----------



## Solude

Sigh this comes up so often that I keep a photo in my gallery for times like this...
   

   
  That's the TRS on the top.  Count the wires


----------



## grokit

Either Woo Audio is lying, or there is more than one interpretation of what exactly qualifies as a "fully balanced output". I have seen this debate devolve into a circular argument more than a couple of times over the years so I think the latter applies.

Again if you have a case, go on a crusade to stop this false advertising travesty. Why waste your time trolling on the Woo thread?


----------



## Jhawkins

Thanks for the photo.  Do you have any photos of a balanced output for example.  Thanks.


----------



## Solude

Not trolling.  I owned and liked the WA22.  Easily top 5 amp.  Just don't want people going off to replace their cables when they don't need to and can use the money for better tubes instead.  Here's a balanced output jack setup.  4pin up top, dual 3pin below.


----------



## Clayton SF

>


 
  Now that's a beautiful amp (interior). I have a B22 but it's not balanced. I love mine.


----------



## grokit

It sounds like you disagree with Jack on what constitutes a balanced output. I can see your point regarding the ground, but I can see his point also that it does not matter if the input is balanced as the "Output stage and input stage are not connected and thus no cross-talk whatsoever can happen...no phase splitter is needed because the source is XLR (balanced)".

What I have experienced is that there is a difference in the way certain headphones improve sound-wise when balanced cabling is used. I have found this to be the case with the HD650, HD800, and LCD2. I have to believe that this difference is due to the balanced cabling rather than a slight change in wire material as my aftermarket balanced cables are not the most esoteric (ie expensive). When I used an SE adapter with the balanced cable for comparison, the improvement went away. I did not notice this difference with the HD600 or 325i, although some have asserted that the improvement is there with the HD600 (DavidMahler in his epic comparison for example).


----------



## Jhawkins

Hey Solude
   
  Thanks for the photo and advice.    
   
  The b22 looks nice.  From what i've been reading it looks like the b22 might not be the best for a first time diyer.  
   
  So the signal goes balanced into the transformer and outputs the same balanced signal to the output terminals.  And with the WA22 the balanced signal comes out of the transformer single ended.
   
  Can you explain why the WA22 would be wired this way?  Also why the wa22 would have unbalanced inputs? 
    
  Thanks again.


----------



## grokit

My WA22 has been modified, it has two sets of balanced inputs and no SE inputs. Woo also added a set of balanced preamp outputs, but it still has the TRS output for convenience. When I switch it into balanced preamp mode, I need to bridge the TRS output with a "special ¼” phone jack" that "acts as a headphone output load as to avoid open circuit". This open circuit to me is evidence that the output stage and input stage are not connected through TRS common ground, and are indeed isolated from each other as Jack has explained.

I'm still not sure why we are discussing a solid state amp in the Woo thread


----------



## Jhawkins

Hey grokit
   
  I have fully balanced atma-sphere monoblocks, and they require an adaptor for the xlr inputs if i were to run them single-ended.  
   
  did the 325i sound good with the wa22?


----------



## grokit

I didn't think it was that great a match, there was an inexpensive (Chinese/eBay) SS, SE amp that I liked better with them. But I didn't roll a bunch of tubes to see if I could make it sound more acceptable either. The cheap amp died and I sold them off.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm still not sure why we are discussing a solid state amp in the Woo thread


 
  I think 'cause, as the thread states, WA amp owners unite, and I guess us Woo Amp owners are uniting on SS amps at the moment.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

When I had a loaner WA22 in my home I observed the following.  
   
  (1) When using a single ended source, the output from 4-pin XLR vs 1/4" headphone jack sounded the same, and overall closer to that of my WA6 amp but with more power.  
   
  (2) When using a balanced source, the output from the 4-pin XLR sounded more spacious and open than via the 1/4" jack, and the 4-pin was closer to the sound of my EC ZDT amp.  It seemed like the 1/4" output still improved slightly with my balanced source than single ended source (same Digital Link III DAC with two sets of outputs, don't know if this was due to my DAC or the WA22).
   
  (3) With a balanced source, if I plugged a 1/4" plug into the WA22 while listening to a headphone via 4-pin XLR, the soundstage out of the 4-pin XLR became more compressed as if I were listening to it single ended again. (with or without a headphone attached to the 1/4" plug)  It seems that using the 1/4" jack converts all outputs back to single ended?
   
  (4) In comparison, my Eddie Current ZDT amp sounded very spacious regardless of whether I was using the 4-pin XLR or the 1/4" jack, and the sound did not change when I plugged in a variety of plugs and headphones into the different jacks.  Note - it only has single ended RCA inputs, and the output transformers convert it to balanced output.  This was done side by side with the WA22 using the same Digital Link III DAC RCA outputs.
   
  I did feel the WA22 was best when used with a balanced source, and while almost as good as my ZDT with HD600 and HD800, the ZDT was moar better with my LA7000 and RS-1.


----------



## ardilla

Isn't this the question? Do the 1/4 connector bridge the ground when nothing is plugged in or not?
   
  The part of the amp inside the orange square (top scheme) is balanced - no question.


----------



## jc9394

The output is definitely not balanced, however, Glenn can put in a TRS adapter that can be disabled when not in use.  I'm trying to ship my WA22 to Glenn for this mod but never get around to it.  I think Mike (forget his username) did that mod a while back and he did notices the difference when using SE or balanced cable after the mod.


----------



## WooAudio

The TRS is balanced. Please look closely at the diagram. The outputs are through 2 separate secondary outputs. There are no common path go into the TRS.
   
  We must take context that the WA22 is a tube amp with output transformer outputs. This is different than the solid state or tube amp without using output transformers.
   
  Hope it is clear.
   
  Jack


----------



## Loevhagen

Much appreciated, Sid-Fi. Thanks. 
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> A local buddy brought over his Schiit Mjolnir a couple of weeks ago and we listened to it and my WA22 through my Audiophilleo2/PurePower and Yulong D18 DAC. We listened to T1, HD800, LCD2.1, and HD 650.
> My honest impression is that the Mjolnir was very impressive and for the price is a much better bargain than the WA22. I preferred my WA22 by a tad, and my buddy preferred the Mjolnir. The Mjolnir was so good for so much less than if I had to start over and buy something I might go that route instead. However, I love my WA22 so much I'm not quite willing to sell it and buy the Mjolnir to save a lot of money. If you already have the Mjolnir, it might be tough to spend all of the extra money to upgrade since I doubt the performance improvement will feel as significant.
> Then again, my Yulong D18 DAC is very well known and popular for providing a smooth and warm sound that is still very detailed. I think that my DAC really helps the Mjolnir. If your using a DAC that is more analytical, the Mjolnir might sound a little cold and uninvolving, which might make the WA22 feel like a bigger step up. It's tough since there are so many variables here, but I hope the general impressions help.


----------



## SeeHear

WOO-HOOOOOO!
   
  Just took delivery of two 5998/2399s all the way from Belgium - thanks Ultrainferno!  I've installed them in my WA2 and it is warming as I type.
   
  Impressions to follow!


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





seehear said:


> WOO-HOOOOOO!
> 
> Just took delivery of two 5998/2399s all the way from Belgium - thanks Ultrainferno!  I've installed them in my WA2 and it is warming as I type.
> 
> Impressions to follow!


 
   
  Hurry up! I'm also waiting for a pair of ts5998!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





seehear said:


> WOO-HOOOOOO!
> 
> Just took delivery of two 5998/2399s all the way from Belgium - thanks Ultrainferno!  I've installed them in my WA2 and it is warming as I type.
> 
> Impressions to follow!


 
   
  Let me know if you need some more. I still have 6 left for sale  Let us know how you like them!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've been getting more and more request for 596 tubes. I'm willing to organize another sale if we can get 10 buyers (10 tubes)
   
  anyone interested?


----------



## rosgr63

I am, count me in for two please.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I am, count me in for two please.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  ok noted, I'll get back to everyone about price and shipping cost once we reached 10!


----------



## van41

Hey woo owners

Im in search for a usaf 596 tube and was wondering if anyone is interested too. I have contacted ultrainferno an he said that he can organise a bulk buy if we get 10 potential buyers. 

Pm me if interested


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





van41 said:


> Hey woo owners
> Im in search for a usaf 596 tube and was wondering if anyone is interested too. I have contacted ultrainferno an he said that he can organise a bulk buy if we get 10 potential buyers.
> Pm me if interested


 
   
  Yeah, I decided to post it myself, check up


----------



## van41

Ohh looks like ultrainferno posted first. Thanks again.


----------



## longbowbbs

Any idea of price?


----------



## van41

Ultrainferno just replied back to the same question and he said 80 dollars plus shipping depending on location.


----------



## longbowbbs

That works!


----------



## ardilla

I'm in!


----------



## snapple10

okay, I skipped the last few pages
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  can I use it with WA6SE? need an adaptor? My Woo has been getting some use, lately


----------



## redcat2

yes you need an adaptor.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hey there fellow Woosies. Believe it or not, I finally got an adapter for my WA22 to be able to use the USAF 596 that I have had sitting in a dresser drawer for months and months. Put the 596 in and everything is working great - no microphonics at all with the adapter from Glenn. I'll have to give it time to settle in and compare it to benchmark of Sophia Princess on my setup. Anyway, thought finally getting the 596 glowing was reason enough for a cheers.


----------



## grokit

Keep us posted SF! I thought there was no way that the Princess could be de-throned in my setup, but the 596 continues to reign supreme.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Hey there fellow Woosies. Believe it or not, I finally got an adapter for my WA22 to be able to use the USAF 596 that I have had sitting in a dresser drawer for months and months. Put the 596 in and everything is working great - no microphonics at all with the adapter from Glenn. I'll have to give it time to settle in and compare it to benchmark of Sophia Princess on my setup. Anyway, thought finally getting the 596 glowing was reason enough for a cheers.


 
   
  (Silent One flips backwards through the calendar...and realizes...Sid-Fi deserves a new round of cheers anyways)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I've been getting more and more request for 596 tubes. I'm willing to organize another sale if we can get 10 buyers (10 tubes)
> 
> anyone interested?


 
   
  Your announcements around this glass always leave me feeling warm...and comfy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Keep us posted SF! I thought there was no way that the Princess could be de-throned in my setup, but the 596 continues to reign supreme.


 
   
  Good thing you didn't ask for my opinion on the _Mighty 596_. I'd have given "Tube bias" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a whole new meaning!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> okay, I skipped the last few pages
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I absolutely adored my USAF-596 with the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition!_ It is now serving me in my current tube amp as well...
   




   
   
  6AS7 based OTL amp - custom built by 2359glenn...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ok guys,
   
  I don't know the exact price yet. Last time it was $85/piece + shipping depending on your location (pm me). Once we have 10 interest buyers (we need 10 tubes) I'll get a price confirmation.
   
  Adapters can be bought from Glenn, Keph from here the boards here or from Woo Audio
   
  I think we're already at 5/6 tubes but I'm waiting for confirmation.
   
  Thx
  U.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I have had the exact same impression about the Sophia Princess being difficult to dethrone in my system. It is head and shoulders above many rectifiers I have tried in my system.
   
  My very first impressions of the 596 are interesting. It definitely has more bass emphasis and impact/slam--which is actually great for my main Sylvania chrome top 6SN7 drivers which can be bass-light--and has a type of holographic, open feel to the soundstage. Other than that, it actually sounds somewhat similar to the Sophia Princess so far and is easily also head and shoulders above the other rectifiers that the Princess bested on my setup.
   
  The strange thing is, besides the clear sound signature differences I notice with the 596, there seems to be something intangible yet obvious (that I couldn't quite put my finger on) that makes my setup more immersive and enganging than with the Princess. Again, I couldn't put my finger on it, but I had one of the most rewarding listening sessions I've had in quite awhile with it last night. I was definitely left with the impression that the 596 would likely replace the Princess as my main recitifer, although I will still compare for awhile to be sure.
   
  Does anyone have any ideas regarding what it is that makes the 596 so immersive. The obvious sonic differences I noticed didn't really seem to explain it and it has me pleasently perplexed.
   
  SilentOne, I thought about flipping through the calendar to see just how long its been, but gave up before I started. Any chance you already noticed?
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Keep us posted SF! I thought there was no way that the Princess could be de-throned in my setup, but the 596 continues to reign supreme.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Just bought a used WA6 with Princess 274b and PDPS.  It's a little tarnished/less shiny than the ones I see pics of here,
  but it sure sounds great with the NOS 6DE7's I picked up.  Have also been trying a Amperex 5AR4 that is a bit more forward
  but has a great width to the soundstage.   Reading my way through this thread, but only up to page 310 right now.
  Hibuck......


----------



## snapple10

+1 for the USAF-596 , please
   
  now, I need an adaptor


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Ok guys,
> 
> I don't know the exact price yet. Last time it was $85/piece + shipping depending on your location (pm me). Once we have 10 interest buyers (we need 10 tubes) I'll get a price confirmation.
> 
> ...


 
   
  We're at 8 already! Only 2 places left guys...
  I'm waiting for confirmation of the tube guy. I'll keep you all posted


----------



## keph

I will be more than happy to supply the Adapters.. if anyone wants one pls PM me..i Hope this time will be the same as the previous group buy..


----------



## dminches

Is there any way you could do 1 shipment to the US and let us distribute them here?  It seems crazy to pay $40 for each box to the US when you could pay for that once and then it would cost under $10 per package.
   
  If you could do that then I would be in for 2.


----------



## Ultrainferno

are you talking about tubes or adapters?
   
  In case of the tubes. sure, if you can find a volunteer/someone every one else trusts, it's easier for me too.


----------



## dminches

I meant the tubes and I would be happy to run this for the US.  
   
  Call Skylab.  He'll vouch for me.


----------



## keph

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is there any way you could do 1 shipment to the US and let us distribute them here?  It seems crazy to pay $40 for each box to the US when you could pay for that once and then it would cost under $10 per package.
> 
> If you could do that then I would be in for 2.


 
   
  That was what i did for the previous adapters...i sent it to Setamp and he distributes them all to other members..


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is there any way you could do 1 shipment to the US and let us distribute them here?  It seems crazy to pay $40 for each box to the US when you could pay for that once and then it would cost under $10 per package.
> 
> *If you could do that then I would be in for 2.*


 
   
   
  Looking for backup?  David is great guy, I can vouch for him.


----------



## dminches

Thanks!
   
  So, can we get a US count?
   
  Minches - 2


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So, can we get a US count?
> 
> Minches - 2


 
   
  I'll pm the lucky ones now! We have 10


----------



## keph

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'll pm the lucky ones now! We have 10


 
   
  10 596's and no Adapters?? hehe nice one Ultra for making another Group buy


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I stand behind him as well...


----------



## dminches

Aw, shucks, SO.  Now you are making me blush...
   
  Fortunately, I have comes across so few people who love this hobby who aren't trustworthy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Aw, shucks, SO.  Now you are making me blush...
> 
> Fortunately, I have comes across so few people who love this hobby who aren't trustworthy.


 
   
  I've been so fortunate over the years in this hobby with stuff - gifted, extraordinary deals and such - any loss is likely to be minimal in the big scheme of things (over time). And dare say, could almost be expected.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Is there any way you could do 1 shipment to the US and let us distribute them here?  It seems crazy to pay $40 for each box to the US when you could pay for that once and then it would cost under $10 per package.


 
   
  This sounds very familiar.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> This sounds very familiar.




Clayton could loan us his much used backpack for tube transportation..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





hibuckhobby said:


> Just bought a used WA6 with Princess 274b and PDPS.  It's a little tarnished/less shiny than the ones I see pics of here,
> but it sure sounds great with the NOS 6DE7's I picked up.  Have also been trying a Amperex 5AR4 that is a bit more forward
> but has a great width to the soundstage.   Reading my way through this thread, but only up to page 310 right now.
> Hibuck......


 
   
  I've had one of those for almost 5 years, and I was the first to add the Pseudo Dual Power Supply to a WA6 when it first came out.  It's a great little amp.


----------



## solserenade

What's the story with the tube with wires connected to the the top -- Is that the 596?   Is there a name that refers to that type of tube?     
   
  Also, is that the rectifier tube? (is it for the power supply?)
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> What's the story with the tube with wires connected to the the top -- Is that the 596?   Is there a name that refers to that type of tube?
> 
> Also, is that the rectifier tube? (is it for the power supply?)
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  That's the UEC 596 rectifier tube. It's a rectifier


----------



## Ultrainferno

FYI. 596 Group Buy is now over. thanks everyone!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> What's the story with the tube with wires connected to the the top -- Is that the 596?   Is there a name that refers to that type of tube?
> 
> Also, is that the rectifier tube? (is it for the power supply?)
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  Those are anode wires connecting to the grid cap. Lower powered tubes usually have this construction internally, as opposed to external wiring. The USAF-596 is a powerful compact rectifier, and the external anode construction allows for more power in a smaller package; higher gain; better operation at higher frequency.
   
  Additionally, designers had the foresight to include the "Cool factor" for later generations...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If I misstated the facts, anyone, please correct me at once!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> FYI. 596 Group Buy is now over. thanks everyone!


 
   
  No one does a '596' Party like Ultrainferno!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hibuckhobby said:


> Just bought a used WA6 with Princess 274b and PDPS.  It's a little tarnished/less shiny than the ones I see pics of here,
> but it sure sounds great with the NOS 6DE7's I picked up.  Have also been trying a Amperex 5AR4 that is a bit more forward
> but has a great width to the soundstage.   Reading my way through this thread, but only up to page 310 right now.
> Hibuck......


 
   
  Congrats! What color Woo?




   
  For maintenance/restoration, you can use water based metal cleaner/polisher like "Twinkle." Perhaps, $6 on AMZN...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No one does a '596' Party like Ultrainferno!


 
   
  It's nice to help everyone out. I just wish they wouldn't let me pay for the paypal fees. I'm already paying for the packing materials myself. This Deal is costing me money


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sounds like we need to send a Group PM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and have a lil' chat.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Already done, I'm sure it'll be fine in the end


----------



## Silent One

Great! Now I can go to bed dreaming ever so sweetly...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_about spending more on audio._


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Great! Now I can go to bed dreaming ever so sweetly...:tongue_smile: _about spending more on audio._




I hear a song...."I'm dreaming of a Tube Christmas...."


----------



## keph

for now i only have 1 adapters for the group buy...if it does not reach around 6 or above i will not make the group buy..


----------



## Hibuckhobby

silent one said:


> Congrats! What color Woo?
> 
> 
> For maintenance/restoration, you can use water based metal cleaner/polisher like "Twinkle." Perhaps, $6 on AMZN...




Thanks for the tip! It began life as a silver one...and life has been hard.
Someone dropped it and put a gouge in the transformer cover. It came with a new 
Sophia rectifier and a few tubes. I bought some nos Rca 6DE7's and have a 
Chatham 5R4 coming. Sounds great with my D7000's, and HD650's. Still
breaking in some hD700's. This thread is going to be hard on my wallet!
Already talking to glenn about adapters.
regards,
Hibuck....


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That's the UEC 596 rectifier tube. It's a rectifier


 
   
  Thanks! 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Those are anode wires connecting to the grid cap. Lower powered tubes usually have this construction internally, as opposed to external wiring. The USAF-596 is a powerful compact rectifier, and the external anode construction allows for more power in a smaller package; higher gain; better operation at higher frequency.
> 
> Additionally, designers had the foresight to include the "Cool factor" for later generations...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks much for the information!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hibuckhobby said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sounds like Street Life. Can't help with the dent but it should still look good when you get it Dolled-up.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Amazed at how much difference rectifiers make.
Have been comparing NOS Amperex 5AR4, Sophia 274b
and NOS Tungsol 5r4. Right now the Sophia is ahead 
on my D7000's, but the TS needs a few more hours on it.
Hibuck...

pics to follow


----------



## malky

I am in the process of selling off my amps and speakers from a high end system and spending the proceeds on hopefully a very high end headphone system. The reason for this is due to my changed circumstances and moving to a much smaller dwelling, that will not house my present system(without going into too much detail).
 I will therefore be in a position to afford either Woo WA5 LE or WA22, with many of the upgrades Woo suggests.
 I already have Senns HD 800 and HD 650 and may try others in future such as Grado GS 1000. I am running a Mapletree HD Super Plus II at the moment.
 It has taken many years to build up my system to what it is today, and so I feel that the purchase of the best from my sales is justified as no extra money will have to be spent.
 So I am looking for any views and advice on the above, would the WA5 pay dividends over the WA22.
 My front end is vinyl ..Inspire Eclipse with SME M 12 R Audio Technica 33EV cartridge, also Musical Fidelity Nu Vista CD player, I also use Nakamichi CR7 and RX 505 Cassette decks as I believe in keeping analog in its pure form, and using CD for new modern material.
 I live in Manchester England, we dont have meets to try amps etc. over here so some degree of chance has to be taken, also very limited in Headphone Amp manufacturers.
 Malky


----------



## grokit

I love my WA22 but would love a WA5 (stock, not LE) even more because of the K1000 port. And you could even hook a WEE to the speaker terminals for electrostatics if you wish. And maybe some speakers, oh wait... :veryevil:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I love my WA22 but would love a WA5 (stock, not LE) even more because of the K1000 port. And you could even hook a WEE to the speaker terminals for electrostatics if you wish. And maybe some speakers, oh wait...


 
   
  Nuthin' for me to think about, really. I'd have a WA5 coming out of WooAudio so fast, they'd have to halt shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just to make sure it was paid for!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





malky said:


> I am in the process of selling off my amps and speakers from a high end system and spending the proceeds on hopefully a very high end headphone system. The reason for this is due to my changed circumstances and moving to a much smaller dwelling, that will not house my present system(without going into too much detail).
> I will therefore be in a position to afford either Woo WA5 LE or WA22, with many of the upgrades Woo suggests.
> I already have Senns HD 800 and HD 650 and may try others in future such as Grado GS 1000. I am running a Mapletree HD Super Plus II at the moment.
> It has taken many years to build up my system to what it is today, and so I feel that the purchase of the best from my sales is justified as no extra money will have to be spent.
> ...


 
  In my opinion go for the WA5 for me a single ended amp sounds better then a push pull amp.
  Also does your phono pre amp add CD player Cassette decks all  have a balanced output as the WA22 has to have a balanced input because it has no phase inverter.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> for me a single ended amp sounds better then a push pull amp.


 
   
  You knew you couldn't make that statement without a follow up explanation for the rest of us.  Can you explain why you feel this way?


----------



## malky

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Also does your phono pre amp add CD player Cassette decks all  have a balanced output as the WA22 has to have a balanced input because it has no phase inverter.


 
  No I have no balanced outputs on any of my kit.
  Malky


----------



## Solude

In the simplest terms single ended is musical, push pull more controlling.  Not always that simple though.  For instance, the FirstWatt J2 is single ended but controlling and the M2 is push pull but musical.  In that case its MOSFET v JFET entering into the equation as well.


----------



## john57

I think it is a matter of implementation of any design in determining the SQ that you will have at the outputs. I liike the Woo amp WA5-LE the best in the company lineup but if I was getting a Stax headphone setup or the HiFiMAN HE6  the WA5 may be better.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





malky said:


> No I have no balanced outputs on any of my kit.
> Malky


 
  Then the WA22 is not a option


----------



## grokit

To be fair, the WA22 does have a set of RCA inputs. You only get to use half the amp's power that way but they're there and the quality is good.

Having said that, I had my RCA inputs changed out to a second set of XLR's. More restrictive, but no compromises.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





grokit said:


> To be fair, the WA22 does have a set of RCA inputs. You only get to use half the amp's power that way but they're there and the quality is good.
> Having said that, I had my RCA inputs changed out to a second set of XLR's. More restrictive, but no compromises.


 
  Yes but feeding 1/2 of a push pull amp has a distorted output but it does sound OK though


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





malky said:


> I am in the process of selling off my amps and speakers from a high end system and spending the proceeds on hopefully a very high end headphone system. The reason for this is due to my changed circumstances and moving to a much smaller dwelling, that will not house my present system(without going into too much detail).
> I will therefore be in a position to afford either Woo WA5 LE or WA22, with many of the upgrades Woo suggests.
> I already have Senns HD 800 and HD 650 and may try others in future such as Grado GS 1000. I am running a Mapletree HD Super Plus II at the moment.
> It has taken many years to build up my system to what it is today, and so I feel that the purchase of the best from my sales is justified as no extra money will have to be spent.
> ...


 
   
  Hi,
   
  I live in England too so I had the same dilema when short-listing a suitable headphone rig. I went on advice and reviews here on headfi and elsewhere on the web and decided on a Woo WA5. I had Grado PS1000 at the time and have since expanded my collection based on reviews here and some demonstrations in the UK.
   
  I know Aylesbury must be a fair way for you, but Peter at Deco audio is starting to branch out into Headphones, he maybe able to help you listen to some different models. At the end of October he had a "Headonism" event where he was showing off loads of cans from Audio Technica, Senn, Grado, Stax, HiFi man and more as well as headphone amps such as Edwards Audio, Stax, Rega. No Woo though alas. They are also Vinyl experts so will be well placed to help you get good synergy with your current rig.
   
  I have a Woo WA5 and a Vinyl front end and I've been very happy with my purchase. I bought the amp as it can drive K1000 and those ear speakers sound SO good to my ears. It also works well with Grado PS1000 and Senn HD800. With the right tube stock you can roll in anything to suit balancing your cans and front end. The WA5 is reasonably priced for a 300B amplifier though if you are downsizing its size may not be ideal, there is an individual PSU and both chassis are on the large size. This amp is overkill for headphones  But that's a good thing right? 
   
  *edit* I also have a Mapletree headphone amp (an HD150) To my ears it never clicked with the HD800 , but slap a pair of Grado's on it and await musical nirvana! ymmv of course!


----------



## Pudu

Hey all,

I'm in the market for a new DAC and looking for something that will compliment the Woo2. So far I'm looking at Burson's DA-160 and Shiit's Gungnir. They both have optical in and two single ended outputs which is what I'm after. I know it's still early days for the Gungnir, but I was wondering if any fellow woosters have any comments or advice on either of these, for this purpose. 

The second set of RCA's will be feeding an older vintage receiver, if that matters at all.

Cheers


----------



## ardilla

What phones are you using?


----------



## Pudu

T1 , D7000, and W3000ANV (silliest model #).


----------



## Silent One

I last saw him hangin' out at the record store with a: T-1; W3000annv; D7000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not sure what music he was flipping through...or if he had more cans in the trunk of his ride.


----------



## Silent One

Pudu, you beat my post by seconds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or so it seemed when I reached for the keyboard.


----------



## Pudu

LOL 

You been stalking me?


----------



## Silent One

Who doesn't like bumping into a buddy at an audio store or record shop?


----------



## Pudu

I'd love it!

But if you were coming all the way across two ponds, you should have given me a little advance notice so I could warm up the tubes and cool down the gin.


----------



## longbowbbs

Pudu...You are going to blow Silent Ones HiFi budget with travel expenses...


----------



## Pudu

But he'll save so much money once here! My tasty plate of golgappa cost me a mere 40 rupees this afternoon.



Besides he seems pretty content with his current rig.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





pudu said:


> But he'll save so much money once here! My tasty plate of golgappa cost me a mere 40 rupees this afternoon.
> 
> Besides he seems pretty content with his current rig.


 
   
  What is that?


----------



## Pudu

They are crispy little shells stuffed with a potato-chickpea mixture and then either dunked in very spicy water or drowned in 3 or 4 different sauces ( variously spicy and creamy). You pop the whole thing in your mouth and bite down. The water / sauces explode in your mouth in a burst of flavours. Delish!


----------



## longbowbbs

Hmmm.. I may be right over...


----------



## rosgr63

I thought you were waiting for the NY pizza!


----------



## Ultrainferno

looked like icecream


----------



## Pudu

Spicy spicy ice cream ...




longbowbbs said:


> Hmmm.. I may be right over...



Hurry man, I'm thinking about grabbing another round tomorrow. It sounds unlikely to hear them described, but they possess an addictive quality.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I thought you were waiting for the NY pizza!


 
   
  Pizza is for second breakfast's.....


----------



## rosgr63

Now I am jealous


----------



## Houbi

Indeed, gol gappa looks interesting! 

But what about the DAC for the Woo 2?

Any recommendations? I have a beyer T1 and in 3 or 4 weeks also a Woo 2.
And my Fiancee wants a wishlist for christmas, a nice DAC would be delicious


----------



## van41

Just a quick question guys, is it normal to hsve a very dlight humming noise coming out of the wa6se when the music is paused and the volume is stll up? I heard the reason for the slight hum noise is coming from the preout. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Pudu...You are going to blow Silent Ones HiFi budget with travel expenses...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> But he'll save so much money once here! My tasty plate of golgappa cost me a mere 40 rupees this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> Besides he seems pretty content with his current rig.


 
   
  That looks like a great late nite pregame pre-session meal! And despite appearances, I'm not content with my rig in the traditional sense. Rather, I know how to live in the moment. _But, always striving to improve it._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





van41 said:


> Just a quick question guys, is it normal to hsve a very dlight humming noise coming out of the wa6se when the music is paused and the volume is stll up? I heard the reason for the slight hum noise is coming from the preout. Can anyone confirm this?


 
   
  I wouldn't consider it normal. But, if the hum is only heard when the music is paused and the volume turned up past normal, I wouldn't worry too much about it. How long did you own the amp before you noticed?
   
  I owned my WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition_ for about a year - the amp was dead silent with music stopped and volume turned all the way up - rearranged the audio rack one evening and discovered said slight humming noise. Then frantically put every single piece back in its original place. Was not successful. 
   
  Ground loops and other gobblings can enter your system at any given time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Now I am jealous


 
   
  I know...went Indian cuisine only last night ( a very spicy shrimp curry). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Though, since buying my Woo, I developed a twitching problem when reading restaurant menus. I look at meal description & pricing, and automatically start relating to tube prices and opportunity costs.


----------



## van41

```
i just got it a few weeks ago and used it since. Hmm i unplugged the rca cables from the amp, turned it up and it was completely silent!. Hopefully its not the amp because its practically new!
```


----------



## Silent One

In the past, I have seen a few others report this experience here in the thread. Perhaps, someone will come along and can help you further.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





van41 said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> i just got it a few weeks ago and used it since. Hmm i unplugged the rca cables from the amp, turned it up and it was completely silent!. Hopefully its not the amp because its practically new!
> ```


 
  If the hun goes away when disconnecting the RCA then you have the classic ground loop issue. try different RCA cables and see if your RCA shield is connected only on one end. What is your source? Your amp itself is okay.


----------



## Sid-Fi

ROFL
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know...went Indian cuisine only last night ( a very spicy shrimp curry).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ardilla

Huh? Isn't that how we all think??
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> ROFL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## van41

I am using the generic Burson cables I receive when I bought the HA160D. I just purchase a pair of copper shielded RCA cables from Trevor at Norse Audio. By the way, his cables and service are excellent! and they actually work! 

 Connected from the PC to the Burson HA160D and then the rca out the the WA6SE. I am using the dac and preamp of the 160D.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## ardilla

In what way do they work?
   
  Quote: 





van41 said:


> I am using the generic Burson cables I receive when I bought the HA160D. I just purchase a pair of copper shielded RCA cables from Trevor at Norse Audio. By the way, his cables and service are excellent! and *they actually work! *
> 
> Connected from the PC to the Burson HA160D and then the rca out the the WA6SE. I am using the dac and preamp of the 160D.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


----------



## van41

Comparing to the lcd 2 stock cables, you experience better dynamics, larger soundstage, more smoother mids. It was a huge difference when i compared them together.


----------



## Pudu

houbi said:


> Indeed, gol gappa looks interesting!
> 
> But what about the DAC for the Woo 2?
> 
> ...




Congrats on the woo2 ! You should love it with the T1.

Oh, and congrats on the T1s too ...

 And the DX. 

And the Heirs. 

 

Nice haul.


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





van41 said:


> Just a quick question guys, is it normal to hsve a very dlight humming noise coming out of the wa6se when the music is paused and the volume is stll up? I heard the reason for the slight hum noise is coming from the preout. Can anyone confirm this?


 

 Sounds like there is an earthing problem .


----------



## Ultrainferno

Twelve 596 tubes are leaving to their new owners on Saturday. I should be named "The 596 Guy" or something under my Nickname. Who can make that happen?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Twelve 596 tubes are leaving to their new owners on Saturday. I should be named "The 596 Guy" or something under my Nickname. Who can make that happen?


 
   
  Currawong.


----------



## shipsupt

Careful, you'll end up a MOT or something silly!
   
  Well done on the 596's, as one of the lucky recipients I want to say THANK YOU for doing the leg work for us.  Awesome stuff.  I'm excited to try this tube.   
   
  Of course, I need to get an adapter! Keph, are you out there?
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Twelve 596 tubes are leaving to their new owners on Saturday. I should be named "The 596 Guy" or something under my Nickname. Who can make that happen?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Careful, you'll end up a MOT or something silly!
> 
> Well done on the 596's, as one of the lucky recipients I want to say THANK YOU for doing the leg work for us.  Awesome stuff.  I'm excited to try this tube.
> 
> ...


 
   
  At last!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm not gonna ask Currawong. wouldn't want to be considered a "Business", as I'm not


----------



## Silent One

_Speaking of The Mighty 596, I'm up listening to it right now, doin' work with Stevie Wonder..."Higher Ground" @ 24/96 kHz._


----------



## longbowbbs

ultrainferno said:


> Twelve 596 tubes are leaving to their new owners on Saturday. I should be named "The 596 Guy" or something under my Nickname. Who can make that happen? :rolleyes:




And there was much rejoicing!


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> Twelve 596 tubes are leaving to their new owners on Saturday. I should be named "The 596 Guy" or something under my Nickname. Who can make that happen? :rolleyes:




Hummm, someone else did in the past.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Speaking of The Mighty 596, I'm up listening to it right now, doin' work with Stevie Wonder..."Higher Ground" @ 24/96 kHz._


 
   
  Excellent choice, Silent!


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'm also listening to the 596. It really is an impressive tube. I'm still not sure what it is about it that gives it that extra engaging edge. I'm listening to Lee Rittenour's new Rythm Sessions album on 24/96 HDTracks. I'm really enjoying it, it has excellent sound quality - very clean and precise.

One interesting issue I am having with my 596 is that together with my Sylvania 7236 my setup is insanely powerful. I listen a lot at night and my audio rig is in my master bedroom near my sleeping wife. The very first click on the knob has channel imbalance and the second click is a really solid listening volume that could be a tad loud for her. So I have a one click volume limit on the knob for all intensive purposes on low gain, which seems crazy. 



silent one said:


> _Speaking of The Mighty 596, I'm up listening to it right now, doin' work with Stevie Wonder..."Higher Ground" @ 24/96 kHz._


----------



## Silent One

The Sylvania 7236 certainly isn't helping the Mrs. Swapping out your power tubes to something with less gain will improve your relations. The Russian 6AS7G is both lower gain and has quieter background, but the Syl may bring a bit more details.
   
  But then, we're only talking about her post bedtime, not drive time, when you're feeling good and want to crank your Woo to make it do what it do... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 better!


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I'm also listening to the 596. It really is an impressive tube. I'm still not sure what it is about it that gives it that extra engaging edge. I'm listening to Lee Rittenour's new Rythm Sessions album on 24/96 HDTracks. I'm really enjoying it, it has excellent sound quality - very clean and precise.


 
  +1 on the Ritenour.  Sounds great on my 325is and WA6.


----------



## Sid-Fi

What's up Woosies, hope everyone is enjoying a great holiday weekend.
   
  I might have a new favorite tube setup on my beloved WA22 - the first picture below. The United Electronics 596 rectifier, Sylvania 7236 power, and RCA VT-231 smoke glass. This combination is extremely engaging on my HD 650 with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cabling. The second picture below had been my main setup for awhile. It uses the Sophia Princess rectifier and Sylvania 6SN7GTA chrome top drivers. The jury is still out but i think the new setup will stick. The 596 adds a layer of excitement and impact. Although i had preferred the Sylvania driver tubes below, the 596 really brings out the full bass presentation of the RCA smoke glass in a way where i prefer the extra bass.
   
  Anything new with you guys?


----------



## NOMBEDES

Hi Sid, where did you get your tubes?


----------



## Sid-Fi

I purchased the 596 rectifier from vacuumtubes.net. I bought the Sylvania 7236 and Sophia Princess used from here on Head-Fi. I got the RCA VT-231 and Sylvania 6SN7 from eBay. I haven't ever purchased anything here in AZ locally.



nombedes said:


> Hi Sid, where did you get your tubes?


----------



## Sid-Fi

If anyone has any recommendations for driver tubes based on my setup and notes in the above posts, I would welcome them. I'm tempted to try a few other driver tubes over time since I have only tried a handful. I'm thinking an older Sylvania VT-231 or the brown base might interesting. Both seem more highly regarded than my late 1950s chrome top. I'm also tempted to try the Tung Sol BGRP again since my driver tubes all interact a little differently with 596.


----------



## jc9394

sid-fi said:


> If anyone has any recommendations for driver tubes based on my setup and notes in the above posts, I would welcome them. I'm tempted to try a few other driver tubes over time since I have only tried a handful. I'm thinking an older Sylvania VT-231 or the brown base might interesting. Both seem more highly regarded than my late 1950s chrome top. I'm also tempted to try the Tung Sol BGRP again since my driver tubes all interact a little differently with 596.




If money is no object, the TS BGRP 6SN7 is the best I heard from WA22 and the Brimar CV1988 (black gold) is very close. There is another one that I never tired and forget what it is (it is Mullard) that I can not justify.

EDIT, it is Mullard ECC32


----------



## grokit

sid-fi said:


> If anyone has any recommendations for driver tubes based on my setup and notes in the above posts, I would welcome them. I'm tempted to try a few other driver tubes over time since I have only tried a handful. I'm thinking an older Sylvania VT-231 or the brown base might interesting. Both seem more highly regarded than my late 1950s chrome top. I'm also tempted to try the Tung Sol BGRP again since my driver tubes all interact a little differently with 596.




I have the same setup as you but with different drivers, for the past year or two I have been using the Shuguang Treasure CV181. I also reluctantly switched from my favorite rectifier, the Princess, to the "mighty" 596. 

I came on to this tube combo when I was trying to figure out which tubes will drive both the HD800 and LCD2.1 well, with the help of this article:

www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm

I already had a pair of the Shuguangs, but did not like them with the tubes I had briefly tried them with and they were at the bottom of the box.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks JC. I think I am leaning mostly between the TS BGRP you mention and the Sylvania 1952 " bad boy".

I found the TS BGRP to be nice using the Sophia Princess, but in the end felt it just a tad too analytical for my tastes compared to my current RCA smoke glass and Sylvania chrome top (although more refined). However, I get the strong feeling it would pair much better with the 596 than it did the Princess. Perhaps with the 596 it would retain the refinement but loose the cold edge to it that kept it from feeling really immersive.

The 1952 bad boy Sylvania is supposed to combine the lush warm characteristics the Sylvania tubes of the 40s and 50s were known for, but also have impressive and full bass which all the other Sylvania variations tend to lack (personal preference to be sure). The only concern with this option is that my Sylvania chrome top don't seem to go well with the 596 at all. It just sounded off overall and the bass was even more anemic than normal (which is wierd cuz the 596 really brought out and improved the bass in the RCA smoke glass) I wonder if the bad boy might have the same lack of synergy with the 596. My Sylvania chrome top went from easily being my favorite with the Princess to well behind the RCA smoke glass with the 596 (truly impressive now). Just goes to show how much of a role synergy between rectifiers, power, and driver tubes plays, let alone the rest of the chain.

I'm getting the feeling this is turning into lunatic tube addict rumblings better served for the 6sn7 addicts thread hehe.



jc9394 said:


> If money is no object, the TS BGRP 6SN7 is the best I heard from WA22 and the Brimar CV1988 (black gold) is very close. There is another one that I never tired and forget what it is (it is Mullard) that I can not justify.
> EDIT, it is Mullard ECC32


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hi Grokit, thanks for weighing in. Am I understanding you correctly that you really like the Treasure driver tubes now with your 596 and 7236, and recommend them? I wasn't sure if I was interpreting your last comment right, that you had them but didn't think highly of them until you're current setup. It's nice to see we have the same exact amp and tube combination aside from the driver tube. That should make your impressions extremely relevant and useful. 

Does anyone else have experience with using the Treasure along with the 596?



grokit said:


> I have the same setup as you but with different drivers, for the past year or two I have been using the Shuguang Treasure CV181. I also reluctantly switched from my favorite rectifier, the Princess, to the "mighty" 596.
> I came on to this tube combo when I was trying to figure out which tubes will drive both the HD800 and LCD2.1 well, with the help of this article:
> www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/woo.htm
> I already had a pair of the Shuguangs, but did not like them with the tubes I had briefly tried them with and they were at the bottom of the box.


----------



## grokit

Yes, my combo was 7236/Treasure/Princess like in that article, now it is 7236/Treasure/596. Sometimes I want to go back to the Princess but the 596 is just too good. Other than that I'm set.

_edit:_ As far as the Treasure drivers go, I was surprised to find that I had a pair of them in my tube collection (I got a big box of tubes with the amp). I must have tried them before but maybe I didn't because the previous owner didn't think much of them for some reason. But he thought the Princess buzzed and I've never been able to get it to do that so who knows. It could be that I never tried them until I read that article and found them.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If money is no object, the TS BGRP 6SN7 is the best I heard from WA22 and the Brimar CV1988 (black gold) is very close. There is another one that I never tired and forget what it is (it is Mullard) that I can not justify.
> EDIT, it is Mullard ECC32


 
   
  I agree with John on this. I have both TS and ECC. 99% of the time I use the ECC32 with TS 7236 and EML mesh rectifier.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Hi Grokit, thanks for weighing in. Am I understanding you correctly that you really like the Treasure driver tubes now with your 596 and 7236, and recommend them? I wasn't sure if I was interpreting your last comment right, that you had them but didn't think highly of them until you're current setup. It's nice to see we have the same exact amp and tube combination aside from the driver tube. That should make your impressions extremely relevant and useful.
> Does anyone else have experience with using the Treasure along with the 596?


 
   
  The Treasures with the 596 sound excellent with the LCD-3, but not so much for the HD800. With the HD800, I use the Syl 6SN7W for the drivers and they sound tight and punchy, perfect with the HD800.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks JC. I think I am leaning mostly between the TS BGRP you mention and the Sylvania 1952 " bad boy".
> I found the TS BGRP to be nice using the Sophia Princess, but in the end felt it just a tad too analytical for my tastes compared to my current RCA smoke glass and Sylvania chrome top (although more refined). However, I get the strong feeling it would pair much better with the 596 than it did the Princess. Perhaps with the 596 it would retain the refinement but loose the cold edge to it that kept it from feeling really immersive.
> The 1952 bad boy Sylvania is supposed to combine the lush warm characteristics the Sylvania tubes of the 40s and 50s were known for, but also have impressive and full bass which all the other Sylvania variations tend to lack (personal preference to be sure). The only concern with this option is that my Sylvania chrome top don't seem to go well with the 596 at all. It just sounded off overall and the bass was even more anemic than normal (which is wierd cuz the 596 really brought out and improved the bass in the RCA smoke glass) I wonder if the bad boy might have the same lack of synergy with the 596. My Sylvania chrome top went from easily being my favorite with the Princess to well behind the RCA smoke glass with the 596 (truly impressive now). Just goes to show how much of a role synergy between rectifiers, power, and driver tubes plays, let alone the rest of the chain.
> I'm getting the feeling this is turning into lunatic tube addict rumblings better served for the 6sn7 addicts thread hehe.


 
   
  If you think TS BGRP a little too analytical, you really should give the Brimar CV1988 a try and EML 274B with TS 7236.  I found this combo the most romantic sounding but does not overly colored and lack of details.


----------



## grokit

darknightdk said:


> sid-fi said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Grokit, thanks for weighing in. Am I understanding you correctly that you really like the Treasure driver tubes now with your 596 and 7236, and recommend them? I wasn't sure if I was interpreting your last comment right, that you had them but didn't think highly of them until you're current setup. It's nice to see we have the same exact amp and tube combination aside from the driver tube. That should make your impressions extremely relevant and useful.
> ...




I really like the HD800 with the Treasures, that's the featured combo in the review I referenced as well. Are your Syl 6SN7W chrome domes or bad boys?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for everyone's feedback and ideas on the tubes. I'm leaning toward NOS TS BGRP or the new Psvane Premium CV181-T (new spinoff of the treasure backed by Grant Fidelity). It's hard to know what will go best with my HD 650 since they are so different than the flagships everyone has like HD 800 or LCD2/3. I'll have to pull the trigger on one or other and see how I like them. If they don't mesh I'll list them for sale and try the other option. Of course at some point ill have to upgrade to a flagship can.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Man, this hobby is tough. After a few nights being in love with the 596 and RCA vt-231 smoke glass combo, tonight I started feeling like the wow factor might be due to overemphasis of the bass and mid regions at the expense of recessed and dulled highs (HD 650 surely a part of that). So I put the Sophia Princess 274b and Sylvania 6sn7 GTA back in. That extra wow factor isn't quite there but it is still very immersive with a more balanced frequency response. The highs are definitely back and sound more appropriate :0.

I'm not sure where this leaves me lol. It's funny how the bass on the Sylvania sounds full and perfectly adequate on the Princess but became anemic with the 596. Despite the Princess sounding nice and polite and balanced, it seems the 596 adds extra energy to the equation. Because of that I think it will still likely be the main rectifier when the dust settles. I keep getting the feeling that the TS BGRP will compliment it nicely with how balanced and refined they are.


----------



## Silent One

Welcome to the wonderful-wide-world of tube rolling..._and emotions._


----------



## San Raal

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> The Treasures with the 596 sound excellent with the LCD-3, but not so much for the HD800. With the HD800, I use the Syl 6SN7W for the drivers and they sound tight and punchy, perfect with the HD800.


 
   
  Albeit not with the 596, I found the opposite suited my ears in my gear - the Treasures suit the HD800 well


----------



## DarknightDK

grokit said:


> I really like the HD800 with the Treasures, that's the featured combo in the review I referenced as well. Are your Syl 6SN7W chrome domes or bad boys?




My Syl 6SN7W are the chrome domes. I find the Treasures lack resolution and speed when paired with the HD800.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> My Syl 6SN7W are the chrome domes. I find the Treasures lack resolution and speed when paired with the HD800.


 
   
  X2 on resolution but I do think speed is fine however it is a great match for LCD-2.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Joining the club!

 Current setup is:
   
  Turntable combo:
  Denon DP-A100 - Pro-Ject Tube Box SE II - WA6-SE - Audez'e LCD-3
   
  Computer combo:
  Macbook Pro Retina - Musical Fidelity M1DAC - WA6-SE - Audez'e LCD-3


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ooooh WA6-SE! awesome choice, goes very well with my LCD-2, i'm sure it sounds just as great with the LCD-3!!!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ooooh WA6-SE! awesome choice, goes very well with my LCD-2, i'm sure it sounds just as great with the LCD-3!!!


 
  Its an amazing pairing... xD


----------



## JDrive

Just signed for my Woo Audio GES. I understand all the reviews saying Woo Audio amps are built like tanks. The wait for my STAX SR-507 to ship is killing me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jdrive said:


> Just signed for my Woo Audio GES. I understand all the reviews saying Woo Audio amps are built like tanks. The wait for my STAX SR-507 to ship is killing me.


 
  oooh sounds like a very lovely combination. and woo amps are definitely very tank-like in construction, heavy too!


----------



## AcousticDreams

dubstep girl said:


> Oooh, sounds like a very lovely combination. And Woo amps are definitely very tank-like in construction, heavy too!



It's better, to have a tank-like amp, than an amp-like tank.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Hey guys, heads up! Woo Audio has begun accepting orders for the WA-234 again 

Anyone with a hate for money step right up


----------



## longbowbbs

I found some quarters under the couch...


----------



## dragon135

Hi Gang! Thanks for all the info. I'm thinking of purchasing the new HDVD amp for my HD800. Any comment on the amp? What have others used for an amp with the HD800, any info or comments would be appreciated. Thanks Dragon135


----------



## VisceriousZERO

dragon135 said:


> Hi Gang! Thanks for all the info. I'm thinking of purchasing the new HDVD amp for my HD800. Any comment on the amp? What have others used for an amp with the HD800, any info or comments would be appreciated. Thanks Dragon135




OT: I hear the HD800 should sound good with the upcoming Senn Amp built for the 800...

BTT: 234!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Those 596 tubes for the US are still in transit. UK, Greece and even the Autralian tubes have already arrived. What are you guys up to there in the US?


----------



## dminches

I keep checking but I have not seen any evidence that they are in the US yet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I keep checking but I have not seen any evidence that they are in the US yet.


 
   
  Let me call the post office


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Those 596 tubes for the US are still in transit. UK, Greece and even the Autralian tubes have already arrived. What are you guys up to there in the US?


 

 The postal system in the US isn't all that it is cracked up to be unless it is delivering a package to the moon.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> The postal system in the US isn't all that it is cracked up to be unless it is delivering a package to Belgium.


 
   
  I still prefer someone to travel with my package and to deliver it to me personally Worked before!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I called the Post Office, they've opened up an investigation. Lets hope they can speed things up.
  Last time I sent tubes to the US it took quite long as well :\


----------



## dminches

I am not thinking the package is lost.  I had a package mailed to me from the UK on the 19th that just arrived yesterday.  So, yours should show up this week.


----------



## AcousticDreams

ultrainferno said:


> I called the Post Office, they've opened up an investigation. Lets hope they can speed things up. Last time I sent tubes to the US it took quite long as well. :\



Good news, we just found your package now in the post office of Contention City, Arizona. It is waiting for delivery by stagecoach. Stay tuned!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





acousticdreams said:


> Good news, we just found your package now in the post office of Contention City, Arizona. It is waiting for delivery by stagecoach. Stay tuned!


 
   

   
  The package was found, the tubes are almost at dminches's place


----------



## Instrumental

I'm considering becoming a member of this group by purchasing a WA22. I am hesitant however because this would be my first headphone amp and I'm honestly a bit skeptical on how much improvement I'd be able to hear out of it. My HD800s absolutely blow me away as it is just playing off my acer laptop. I have no idea how I'd be able to test it out either. =\


----------



## Silent One

I'd suggest you get down to an audio store or meet locally with another head-fier. Are you too faraway from either?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> I'm considering becoming a member of this group by purchasing a WA22. I am hesitant however because this would be my first headphone amp and I'm honestly a bit skeptical on how much improvement I'd be able to hear out of it. My HD800s absolutely blow me away as it is just playing off my acer laptop. I have no idea how I'd be able to test it out either. =\


 
  oh coming from a laptop output, the improvements would be massive, especially jumping into the high end like the WA22.
   
  have you considered other woos like the WA2 btw?


----------



## Instrumental

I don't really know anyone around me, but I live up near Seattle so I'm sure there are other head-fiers around. I'm not familiar with any audio shops up here either. Guess I have some research cut out for me.
   
  I didn't really consider the WA2, I was honestly debating between the 5 and 22 and decided I wasn't comfortable dropping over 3000 bones on an amp yet.


----------



## Silent One

A look at other Woo's, I agree, especially if the OP isn't gonna use a balanced source or maybe low on dough.


----------



## dminches

The WA6SE is a great amp for the money.  And, it won't cost you tons in tubes like some of the others, assuming you look to upgrade them which of course you will if you hang around here long enough.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A look at other Woo's, I agree, especially if the OP isn't gonna use a balanced source or maybe low on dough.


 
   
  Dark mood SO?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> I don't really know anyone around me, but I live up near Seattle so I'm sure there are other head-fiers around. I'm not familiar with any audio shops up here either. Guess I have some research cut out for me.
> 
> I didn't really consider the WA2, I was honestly debating between the 5 and 22 and decided I wasn't comfortable dropping over 3000 bones on an amp yet.


 
   
  then it seems the WA2 or WA6-SE would be your best bet, you said it would be your first headphone amp. you're going to be blown away by whichever you buy. but before spending huge amounts of money on one, you have to consider all your options as well as what sound you are looking for. the WA5/WA22 require more expensive setups and upgraded tubes to sound their best. 
   
  the WA2 or WA6-SE are fantastic amps to use with the HD-800 and either will drive them to their full potential.


----------



## Instrumental

Hmm, see I was thinking about getting a less expensive amp like the Emmeline II Raptor, but then I figured, if I want to move up, then it would cost me even more money than if I just got the better amp in the first place. I will look into them though and do more research. Maybe I'll luck out and find a business or someone who can let me sample some amps.


----------



## ardilla

The WA22 is a great amp and highly regarded with the HD800 and works well with a whole range of amps... Since you are considering the WA5, is seems you are ready to spend som e money - I'd say just go for it. WA22 works great with all my headphones. 
   
  The improvement over a laptop will blow you away, and make all aspects of your life better in every way. 
   
   
  Quote: 





instrumental said:


> Hmm, see I was thinking about getting a less expensive amp like the Emmeline II Raptor, but then I figured, if I want to move up, then it would cost me even more money than if I just got the better amp in the first place. I will look into them though and do more research. Maybe I'll luck out and find a business or someone who can let me sample some amps.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 I'd offer _a more reflective one. _Dubstep Girl and dminches hit the nail on the head Olympic style! The OP mentions being skeptical, wanting to limit $$$ and using computer as source. Not using a balanced source leaves the OP using only half the WA22's potential, making the _WooAudio_ _WA 6 Special Edition_ a better choice. In fact, the WA7 could very well fill the bill and should be considered as well.


----------



## Clayton SF

I have owned my WA22 since 2009 and I have never used it with balanced headphones. What I can tell you is that the SQ on my SE headphones is much improved when I connect my WA22 to a balanced DAC through its XLR inputs than when it is connected to the RCA inputs.


----------



## Instrumental

Oh man, now we are getting in to DACs, which is even more unfamiliar to me than head amps. For the sake of future proofing a bit, if I were interested in eventually getting a balanced DAC that I could hook up to my laptop (does something like that even exist?), would that make a WA22 worth the purchase? It seems that the issue with me getting the WA22 now is that it's overkill and the 2, 6 or 7 would suffice.
   
  Now I'm off to the DSC board to see about a DAC.


----------



## Clayton SF

I love this _*PS Audio Digital Link III DAC*_. It has balanced and RCA outputs and built like a tank.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I love this _*PS Audio Digital Link III DAC*_. It has balanced and RCA outputs and built like a tank.


 
  And great bang for the buck performance. Used they can be had for $450 ish.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Absolutely! And PS Audio & W4S design their boxes to be upgradeable...


----------



## van41

Thanks Ultrainferno for the tubes.

 They arrived in one piece! Now waiting for the adapter I purchased from Jack at Woo!

 Anyways, what are some of the driver tubes you folks use with the USAF 596 and your impressions??

 Thanks


----------



## van41

Also cheers to Ultra for the excellent communication and service throughout the process. He pretty much viewed the tracking log more than me haha.


----------



## Instrumental

Reading up on this DAC it sounds impressive. And they sell it through Amazon so that is convenient. So it looks like if I were to hook this up: Computer -> DAC -> WA22 -> Headphones, I'd need a B-Bus USB cable to connect DAC to computer, one dual xlrm to dual xlrf cable (or a male to male RCA cable) to connect the DAC to the WA22 and then to connect the WA22 to my headphones, I could either just use my 1/4"F to 1/8"M converter that I use now, or a four pin xlrm to a 1/4"f or a dual xlrm to 1/4"f... I'll probably never find those so I'll just use the 1/4"f to 1/8"M


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





van41 said:


> Thanks Ultrainferno for the tubes.
> 
> They arrived in one piece! Now waiting for the adapter I purchased from Jack at Woo!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Last pairing for my Woo: USAF-596 (1957) and Tung-Sol BGRP's VT-231/6SN7GT (1942-44). Loved the combo!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Funny that you should mention that Silent One. See below for a post I just submitted in the 6SN7 tube addict thread...

Initial impressions of the Tung Sol BGRP 6SN7 in my setup are very positive. As I have mentioned recently in this thread, I have been looking for driver tubes that can really compliment my WA22 with the 596 rectifier. My RCA VT-231 and Sylvania GTA each have great strengths, but a clear weakness that leaves me wanting.

After an initial hour and a half long listening session, the TS BGRP are proving to be much more balanced with no glaring frequency response imbalances that my tubes have annoyed me with. The bass is full but not overbearing. The mids have an understated but enjoyable warmth that makes them sound engaging without losing detail or sounding lush at the expense of neglecting the highs. The highs are so far my favorite region. They sound really alive, precise, and realistic. Overall, the tubes sound very resolving, refined, and musically engaging. I'm really enjoying them so far...

Thanks to the generous head-fi'er that offered to ship them to me for audition . I won't mention a name since I haven't asked, but this member is lurking about - cheers!




silent one said:


> Last pairing for my Woo: USAF-596 (1957) and Tung-Sol BGRP's VT-231/6SN7GT (1942-44). Loved the combo!


----------



## Sid-Fi

I agree with David. While I love my WA22, considering how you are just starting out I think the WA6SE will be a better value while still thrilling by all accounts.

My experience with audio is that every part of the chain is extremely important and only sounds as good as the weakest link. Due to this, I think the extra $1,000 you save compared to the Wa22 would go a long way towards also getting a DAC and improved computer USB interface. Both are critical in allowing your amp to reach its potential.

As for the DAC recommendations, I agree the PS Audio Digital Link 3 has been very highly regarded for a long time and is a solid workhorse. However, in my system, my new Yulong D18 Sabre DAC was clearly better to my ears. It is a phenomenal value at $699 and is fully balanced. Project86 wrote an amazing review of it that I would recommend reading if your interested. 



dminches said:


> The WA6SE is a great amp for the Initial impressions of the Tung Sol BGRP 6SN7 in my setup are very positive. As I have mentioned recently in this thread, I have been looking for driver tubes that can really compliment my WA22 with the 596 rectifier. My RCA VT-231 and Sylvania GTA each have great strengths, but a clear weakness that leaves me wanting.
> 
> After an initial hour and a half long listening session, the TS BGRP are proving to be much more balanced with no glaring frequency response imbalances that my tubes have annoyed me with. The bass is full but not overbearing. The mids have an understated but enjoyable warmth that makes them sound engaging without losing detail or sounding lush at the expense of neglecting the highs. The highs are so far my favorite region. They sound really alive, precise, and realistic. Overall, the tubes sound very resolving, refined, and musically engaging. I'm really enjoying them so far...
> 
> ...


----------



## Instrumental

A USB interface?! Man what the hell is that? These things keep piling on! ;_; By the way was my assessment of the connection cables between each component correct? I feel like I'm going to mess this up some how. You guys have been really helpful by the way.


----------



## Pudu

So many of these appealing sounding DACs have one single ended output and one balanced output. Is it possible to safely feed a single ended amp with a balanced DAC out (so that I can connect two amps to one DAC)? 

Thanks for any guidance - I know zilch about what's involved.


----------



## shipsupt

You can split the single ended output and feed it to two Amps. There are plenty of splitters available if you do a quick search. Even better will be if one of your Amps is fitted with a Loop Out which would allow you to hook up the second amp to the loop out to get the DAC signal (DAC--amp 1 inputs--out of amp1 loop out--amp 2 inputs).


----------



## Sid-Fi

By USB interface I am really referring to a USB to SPDIF converter. In a nutshell, computers have generally been notoriously bad transports for sending music files to an external DAC. There are two primary reasons, timing errors and fairly dirty/noisy power. 

Ill attempt a high-level layperson summary. The USB protocol is great for sending data, checking for errors, reseeding any missing data to correct errors. It does not by itself very accurately control the timing of digital audio data that is converted to analog in real-time as soon as the data arrives at the digital to analog converter chip. All of the timing errors result in "jitter" which distorts the music, usually losing detail and accuracy and having a harsh sound. The other issue is caused by lots of noise and interference associated with computer power supplies and the many components are packed so closely in the computer. This noise and interference interferes with digital to analog conversion process and results in both getting carried along to the amplifier where the distortions are amplified. 

I'm no expert but this should give you a very general high level of the issues at play and benefits. A few affordable solutions are Musical Fidelity V-Link, Stello U2, Audio-gd Digital Interfsce etc.these are all around the $250 ballpark range if I remember correctly. They aren't reference level solutions but should great improvement over direct connection in most cases. 

I personally have more money invested in my USB Interfsce than I do in either my DAC or headphones and that has given me the best results IMO. Your connections look generally right. I'm not as familiar with the measurements you quoted with the XLR connectors since they are usually standard 3 and 4 pin sizes. 



instrumental said:


> A USB interface?! Man what the hell is that? These things keep piling on! ;_; By the way was my assessment of the connection cables between each component correct? I feel like I'm going to mess this up some how. You guys have been really helpful by the way.


----------



## Pudu

I tried the Woo's preamp feeding the vintage receiver, but it wasn't terrific. The splitter is a possibility - no problem running a spliter and having both amps on concurrently?

Cheers


----------



## shipsupt

If the two amps were highly mis-matched on input impedences you might have an impact on SQ, but that's not likely. You'll be fine running both at the same time.


----------



## Pudu

Alright then. Thanks for the guidance. I'll see if I can dig up some rca splitters. This would open up my DAC options considerably.

Cheers man


----------



## Instrumental

Thank you for the explanation on that Sid-Fi. I think I will look into the Audiophilleo  since that is what you're rocking. Man, I jumped from head amps to DACs to USB/SPDIF converters. Man, and I thought collecting firearms was expensive!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm glad all the tubes are almost with their owners. Thanks for the kind words Van41.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> Thank you for the explanation on that Sid-Fi. I think I will look into the Audiophilleo  since that is what you're rocking. Man, I jumped from head amps to DACs to USB/SPDIF converters. Man, and I thought collecting firearms was expensive!


 
   
  Expensive? Places like Head-Fi are docile and delightful destinations. A wonderful place where one could share, contribute, look and learn. So docile in fact, you might even have an exchange with the Devil himself and wouldn't know it until you examined the contents of your wallet.
   
  Many are left thinking to themselves.._."Just how much help did I need?!" _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> By USB interface I am really referring to a USB to SPDIF converter. In a nutshell, computers have generally been notoriously bad transports for sending music files to an external DAC. There are two primary reasons, timing errors and fairly dirty/noisy power.





>





> I'm no expert but this should give you a very general high level of the issues at play and benefits. A few affordable solutions are Musical Fidelity V-Link, Stello U2, Audio-gd Digital Interfsce etc.these are all around the $250 ballpark range if I remember correctly. They aren't reference level solutions but should great improvement over direct connection in most cases.
> I personally have more money invested in my USB Interfsce than I do in either my DAC or headphones and that has given me the best results IMO. Your connections look generally right. I'm not as familiar with the measurements you quoted with the XLR connectors since they are usually standard 3 and 4 pin sizes.


 
   
   
  +1
   
  USB to SPDIF converters really help improve the sound when playing from a computer.  i myself own the musical fidelity V-link which goes directly to my DL3. it works great and is a great buy for the price.


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> Thank you for the explanation on that Sid-Fi. I think I will look into the Audiophilleo  since that is what you're rocking. Man, I jumped from head amps to DACs to USB/SPDIF converters. Man, and I thought collecting firearms was expensive!


 
   
  You should check out the Channel Islands Audio Transient MK II.  It serves as both a converter and a DAC.  So, you can start small, use it for both, and then eventually add a DAC.  I have owned a number of their components and have enjoyed each one.  And they are very reasonably priced.
   
http://www.ciaudio.com/products/TransientMKII


----------



## AcousticDreams

dubstep girl said:


> I myself own the Musical Fidelity V-LINK which goes directly to my DL3. It works great and is a great buy for the price.



You forgot to tell us which one, V-LINKII or V-LINK192? There is a big difference in pricing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh i have the original V-LINK 1 (the black 24/96 one)


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> Thank you for the explanation on that Sid-Fi. I think I will look into the Audiophilleo  since that is what you're rocking. Man, I jumped from head amps to DACs to USB/SPDIF converters. Man, and I thought collecting firearms was expensive!


 
  Perhaps this meet would be educational:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/633123/seattle-meet-woodinville-saturday-12-15-2012


----------



## Instrumental

Oh cool,  a meet! I will try to get over there. Thanks. I really appreciate all the other input too. What I thought was going to be a simple audio purchase has become quite complex! I am researching three components instead of one. It's fascinating stuff I think.


----------



## Silent One

Your pursuit may also raise your appreciation for both your acquisitions and listening to music itself. This is not a given. Do try to enjoy the journey...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Your pursuit may also raise your appreciation for both your acquisitions and listening to music itself. This is not a given. Do try to enjoy the journey...




And keep feeling sorry for your wallet!!!


----------



## Instrumental

Finding some cables is kind of tough though, like dual xlrf or xlrm to a female headphone jack (1/4 or 1/8). Or a single 4pin male to female headphone jack. =\ RCA cables of whatever variety are easy enough though.


----------



## Instrumental

Okay so I ended up buying a bunch of necessary cables as well as the PS Audio Digital Link III DAC. The Yulong looked really nice, but between the source being Hong Kong and thus over seas shipping and the fact that I had over 180 dollars in Amazon gift cards, the PS Audio's ease of purchase, lower cost, and delivery was what put it over the edge. Still researching on the USB SPDIF converter and I will put in the order for my WA22 soon as well. Exciting times! =)


----------



## Sid-Fi

Congrats on your purchase and welcome into Head-Fi. It's really nice being able to use Amazon gift cards towards our hobby.

Just as a future FYI Yulong partners with a US company called Grant Fidelity who are top notch and handle all the customer service and interactions. That and the D18 arrived within 3 days somehow. 

Hope you're thrilled with your purchase. Keep us updated on your future orders.



instrumental said:


> Okay so I ended up buying a bunch of necessary cables as well as the PS Audio Digital Link III DAC. The Yulong looked really nice, but between the source being Hong Kong and thus over seas shipping and the fact that I had over 180 dollars in Amazon gift cards, the PS Audio's ease of purchase, lower cost, and delivery was what put it over the edge. Still researching on the USB SPDIF converter and I will put in the order for my WA22 soon as well. Exciting times! =)


----------



## AcousticDreams

instrumental said:


> The Yulong looked really nice, but between the source being Hong Kong and thus over seas shipping and the fact that I had over 180 dollars in Amazon gift cards, the PS Audio's ease of purchase, lower cost, and delivery was what put it over the edge.



This was a very wise decision, keep your fingers from this crap, it would only lead to never-ending problems. Now goes your hard earned money to PS Audio Inc. in Boulder, Colorado, a reliable company with good service.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats, Instrumental!


----------



## Instrumental

Thanks guys =) Can't wait to try all this new gear out.


----------



## Houbi

acousticdreams said:


> This was a very wise decision, keep your fingers from this crap, it would only lead to never-ending problems. Now goes your hard earned money to PS Audio Inc. in Boulder, Colorado, a reliable company with good service.




Why do you think that the Sabre D18 is crap?


----------



## Sid-Fi

I was wondering the same thing, but wasn't sure what AcousticDreams meant.
  Quote: 





houbi said:


> Why do you think that the Sabre D18 is crap?


----------



## Houbi

I know it's the wrong thread to discuss that topic. But i haven't found any bad reviews of the D18 so far, besides someome who needs something more neutral for his studio working.


----------



## Silent One

The comment caught my sleepy eye, too! Would like to learn more...


----------



## AcousticDreams

houbi said:


> Why do you think that the Sabre D18 is crap?



I have Yulong blacklisted because of the missing quality control and also for the lack of standards in manufacturing and the general working conditions. Be warned, this is typical for the Chinese market as a whole! The result is a high rate of complaints from customers all over the world, mostly from the west.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I have never heard of a Yulong Sabre D18 having any issues whatsoever. Grant Fidelity is a U.S. company with outstanding customer service and support (by all accounts I have ever seen including my experience), and hold their manufacturers responsible and warranty issues go through them. I think this type of business model is the way to in the near future. That being said, I wouldn't feel as comfortable dealing with Chinese manufacturers directly.
   
  Have you had specific issues with Yulong since they have partnered through Grant Fidelity such as with the D18 or A18? Or you just lumping him and Grant Fidelity in with your impressions of China audio manufacturers? I have never heard of an issue, and would like to make sure we aren't unfairly giving people false impressions.
  Quote: 





acousticdreams said:


> I have Yulong blacklisted because of the missing quality control and also for the lack of standards in manufacturing and the general working conditions. Be warned, this is typical for the Chinese market as a whole!


----------



## AcousticDreams

@ Sid-Fi
I'm not talking about traders, the mentioned problems come from the manufacturers only. The traders all together want to sell what ever they can, but that's another story. No, I really don't want for people to be victims of an industry that is run by corrupt criminals.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I get that, and I'm definitely not wanting to argue or anything like that. I just want to know what issues you have had. You mentioned Yulong in particular, but all of your comments have been stereotypical Chinese manufacturing comments. I'm trying to separate the two with some facts about Yulong in particular. If you had something from them fall apart, what was it? If not, just clarify that you wouldn't trust Chinese manufacturing in general but don't have any direct experience with Yulong. My two cents at least...
  Quote: 





acousticdreams said:


> @ Sid-Fi
> I'm not talking about traders, the mentioned problems come from the manufacturers only. The traders all together want to sell what ever they can, but that's another story. No, I really don't want for people to be victims of an industry that is run by corrupt criminals.


----------



## Houbi

Well... In the last two years my image of china or chinese products rapidly changed. Hell, what is not from China today?

Almost everything i adore so much is made in china or at least from the asian region. And i'm a truely demanding customer who's not forgiving faults in design, quality control or anything else. Just to name a few top notch products i own:

- 5 Emotiva UPA-1 Monoblocks (great value)
- oppo BDP-93EU (superb product and design, absolutely astonishing)
- ONKYO PR-SC5509 (best surround prepro at it's price and way beyond up to about 8'000$)
- iBasso DX100 (best portable sound so far)
- Heir Audio 8.A CIEM's (TOP NOTCH QUALITY)
- WooAudio WA2 (US product, but an asian family business)

Just to name a few... And in general i felt very well doing business in Asia. Service is usually great, shipmemt is fast (at least to switzerland) and people are very kind. They also got onto the train of "build/look/feel quality" what the western world is looking for.


----------



## Houbi

Well, i think it's time to get back to topic. This is leading nowhere here....

Received my WA2 on Tuesday. What a packaging, just great. WA2 is absolutely astonishing in look, feel and build quality. I didn't take a lot of time to "actually" hear what just had arrived in my life. The Combination with the T1 is just gorgeous, it's simply amazing!! And i even don't have a dedicated DAC at the moment, just running through the RCA Outs of my Xonar Essence STX. it realy managed to touch my soul! 

Got some excellent tube's on it's way to me and will probably pull the trigger on the mentioned Yulong D18!

...exciting times!


----------



## dminches

The eagle has landed.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice looking 596 shipment David! I'm loving my 596 with your TS BGRP!
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> The eagle has landed.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The eagle has landed.


 
   
  Yeah Baby...Bring'em on!


----------



## dminches

Just to clarify, are people using the 596 instead of 5AR4s and 5U4Gs?  Is it a drop in replacement for those?  Any concerns?
   
  I can't find a data sheet for the 596.
   
  EDIT:  It looks there the heater current draw is the same so it should be fine.  Thanks Xcalibur255.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'm using it instead of the 5U4G in my WA22. It is listed as fully compatible on Woo Audio's spec sheet as long as you have an adapter. I'm using Glenn's adapter and it works perfect with no apparent issues. I don't know all of the engineering details, but am trusting Jack that it is safely compatible in the long run.
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Just to clarify, are people using the 596 instead of 5AR4s and 5U4Gs?  Is it a drop in replacement for those?  Any concerns?
> 
> I can't find a data sheet for the 596.
> 
> EDIT:  It looks there the heater current draw is the same so it should be fine.  Thanks Xcalibur255.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Just to clarify, are people using the 596 instead of 5AR4s and 5U4Gs?  Is it a drop in replacement for those?  Any concerns?
> 
> I can't find a data sheet for the 596.
> 
> EDIT:  It looks there the heater current draw is the same so it should be fine.  Thanks Xcalibur255.


 
  5U4G, 5Y3G.....I have a nice adapter from 2359Glenn to make the change....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The eagle has landed.


 
   
  Looks better than an ice-cream cone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 in Paris!


----------



## Icenine2

Whoa that is nice looking!
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> The eagle has landed.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Those 596's look like they were wrapped up nice and snug for their trip to their happy owners.  Mine hasn't left its spot front and center on the WA22 since I got it!  Enjoy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> Those 596's look like they were wrapped up nice and snug for their trip to their happy owners.  Mine hasn't left its spot front and center on the WA22 since I got it!  Enjoy!


 
   
  x22!


----------



## dragon135

Please let me know what you like of an amp for your HD800. It would be greatly appreciated. I'm using a HeadRoom desk top now and thinking o the HDHV but would like your opinion on the WA22. thanks Dragon135-Seattle WA


----------



## Ultrainferno

dragon135 said:


> Please let me know what you like of an amp for your HD800. It would be greatly appreciated. I'm using a HeadRoom desk top now and thinking o the HDHV but would like your opinion on the WA22. thanks Dragon135-Seattle WA




Bottlehead Crack!


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





dragon135 said:


> Please let me know what you like of an amp for your HD800. It would be greatly appreciated. I'm using a HeadRoom desk top now and thinking o the HDHV but would like your opinion on the WA22. thanks Dragon135-Seattle WA


 
  You might find this nearby meet to be educational.  
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/633123/seattle-meet-woodinville-saturday-12-15-2012


----------



## devaeron

Hi there,
   
  i'm new here hehe..
  having WA6 as my first desktop amp is surely something..
   
  i'm pairing her with HD650 and dacport lx
  the tubes used here were 6DR7 and GZ32(don't know the brand)
   
  some little impression,
   
  firstly, this unit is not a new one, the first owner already have this for about 1 month and has been used for about 80 hours
  secondly, the first owner said that this unit is already modded as follows
   
  changing caps, into unknown type  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  cable that connect inside the amplifier, he said into copper, but still i don't know the brand  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "he just said 'expensive?!' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "
  power jack, into "Frutec" at least this one i know the brand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and
  the rectifier tube from stock 274B to GZ32 (and again, i don't know the brand) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i'll post some picture as soon as possible, so that maybe someone could help me identify that "unknown" brand..
   
  okay, so a little impression:
  i've been hearing these amp for about 6 hour, so hope i could give a nice impression here.. hehee
  So, normally i used to listen to my HD650 from Govibe Vest with Dacport LX as source,
   
  at the first minute i hear from WA6, the impression here were just like it's different!, but not give me some chill or WOW feeling (i listened at local headphone store)
  so i continued to listen about 2 hours using some vocal and jazz album, and i just fell into some deep nice relaxing sound,(at Home)
  at some normal volume (about 11 o'clock) the impact of the bass are not so WOW, but at around 14 o'clock, this baby just starting to show her prowess
  the impact is just so nice, yet not making other frequencies loses their nice smooth feeling, this is truly something that i'm not getting from vest + lx combo hehe..(what do i expect? hehe)
  the best things that make me not regret getting this amplifier is this amplifier could make my ear felt refreshed from my old set of music XD
  so, finally i just said that this amplifier really making my HD650 sound like really 'reference class' hehehe..
   
  Sorry for my bad English, and hope i could post some picture soon..


----------



## thrak

Question for the 596 Club:
   
  I got my 596 a few months ago (thanks SO for selling me on it and pointing me in the right direction for acquisition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but for a number of reasons I won't get into here, I did't actually try it until this weekend.  I know, shame on me, but be assured it was out of my control.  I also got the adapters from Woo for my WA6SE (beautiful piece as always).  I swapped out my EML 274b on saturday and plugged in the adapter and then the 596 on top.  When I connected the external leads, however, I noticed the connection is loose!  Very loose, actually.  I was a bit nervous, as you can probably understand, but I fidgeted with them for a bit until I got what felt like a relatively stable connection.  While standing a bit away from it and half-flinching, half-wincing I fired the WA6SE up.  Lo and behold!  It worked fine.  I let it warm up for a couple of hours and then listened for about 4 more hours.  It was rough going at first, sounding very harsh and fatiguing to say the least.  By the end of the session it was sounding much, much better.  Not up to par with the EML yet but I guess a rugged tube like this one needs some time to break-in.
   
  So the question is: are the leads supposed be loose like that?  Even though it worked I am a bit hesitant to try it again until I know this is normal (or not).  Anyone else with the Woo adapters have this issue?  With Keph's adapters?  Greatly appreciate any thoughts from you guys.


----------



## dminches

Can you explain what is loose?  Do you mean the part that slips over the metal leads at the top of the glass?


----------



## bfreedma

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Question for the 596 Club:
> 
> I got my 596 a few months ago (thanks SO for selling me on it and pointing me in the right direction for acquisition
> 
> ...


 
  I have a 596 and the Woo adapter.  The connector from the adapter to the one of the leads on the top of the 596 is a little loose but hasn't been a problem to date.  It worried me a bit at first as well.


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Can you explain what is loose?  Do you mean the part that slips over the metal leads at the top of the glass?


 
   
  Yes, exactly.  The cap/connector on the end of the wires from the adapter base is in essence the 'female' end of the connection and the pins that stick out of the tube the 'male' end.  If you look at the female end, this socket is of a larger diameter than the male pin.  Much larger, I would say.  Definitely not a solid connection.


----------



## dminches

I don't think it is an issue. As long as you slip it over and it hangs on you should be fine. That's how mine is.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Question for the 596 Club:
> 
> I got my 596 a few months ago (thanks SO for selling me on it and pointing me in the right direction for acquisition
> 
> ...


 
   
  My own adapter was supplied by 2359glenn - my leads/connections are tight. Not sure how loose the other adapters may feel. Just reached over to pull-twist-bend the leads on the rec - _all tight, all good._


----------



## grokit

silent one said:


> My own adapter was supplied by 2359glenn - my leads/connections are tight. Not sure how loose the other adapters may feel. Just reached over to pull-twist-bend the leads on the rec - _all tight, all good._




X2, my 2359glenn-made 596 adapter connectors are _goodn'tight_.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Since thrak raised the issue, I'm left wondering if all of the Woo adapters feel the same way and this is normal or not.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2, my 2359glenn-made 596 adapter connectors are _goodn'tight_.


 
  I'll let everyone know this weekend when I get home and I can connect the 596 to one of Glenn's adapters...Can't wait to fire it up!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  He's having this problem with the Woo-596 adapter/connection, not the Glenn made adapter...


----------



## longbowbbs

Yep...got that.....I would be uncomfortable with a loose connection. (I have enough of those in my head!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Seems like the adapter from Glenn will not have that problem....


----------



## Clayton SF

My adapter from Glenn attaches securely to the tube's pin. There is good resistance while attaching the pin adapter to the pin on the tube. It feels exactly the same as when I insert a tube into its socket.


----------



## keph

my connectors are just tight...like a virgin


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I'll let everyone know this weekend when I get home and I can connect the 596 to one of Glenn's adapters...Can't wait to fire it up!


 
   
  How could you be away when the 596 are waiting for you at home?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I pondered this..._really._


----------



## Silent One

And to satisfy my DeOxIt addiction, I hit both male/female ends with a little Red, then Gold liquid love!


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> And to satisfy my DeOxIt addiction, I hit both male/female ends with a little Red, then Gold liquid love!




Wooing ... virgins ... tubes ... liquid love ... squirting male and female ends! What has this place turned into? 


Whatever it is, I like it. :devil_face:


----------



## Silent One

Well, I needed to find something to do. Waiting for longbowbbs to get home...and inside the listening room could take awhile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ain't even listening to the amp tonight! Though, I feel better having just prepped it for tomorrow night's session!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> How could you be away when the 596 are waiting for you at home?


 
  &^%*&^$^& Economic realities of life.......


----------



## Silent One

Welcome back, longbowbbs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Knowing that you're back safe and able to conduct your test, I shall retire for the morning...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Has anyone tried one of the 596 I mailed?


----------



## bfreedma

The USPS seems to have taken mine hostage.  I'm less than 20 miles from dminches and the postal service hasn't been able to cross the great divide yet.  Not even showing "out for delivery" this morning....


----------



## dminches

Crazy.  I have found that packages arrive before they are updated on the web site.


----------



## Ultrainferno

You should have just picked it up at his place


----------



## bfreedma

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You should have just picked it up at his place


 
   
  True, but I don't need to be getting any more "ideas" by looking at other people's nice setups 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Crazy.  I have found that packages arrive before they are updated on the web site


 
   
  Timing is everything - the status just changed showing it has now arrived at my local post office, so perhaps it will show today after all.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Just put in a bid on a WA2 to go along with my WA6.  This thread has not been good for
  my wallet and as I'm reading through it, I'm only up to page 700.  Hard to imagine what will 
  happen to me by the time I've read all the way to the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Hibuck....


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> &^%*&^$^& Economic realities of life.......


 

   
  What an excuse!


----------



## thrak

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I don't think it is an issue. As long as you slip it over and it hangs on you should be fine. That's how mine is.


 
   
  Quote:  





> I have a 596 and the Woo adapter.  The connector from the adapter to the one of the leads on the top of the 596 is a little loose but hasn't been a problem to date.  It worried me a bit at first as well.


 
   
   
  Thanks everyone for your feedback.  Those of you with Glenn and keph adapters have a nice positive connection.  It seems that the 3 of us who have Woo adapters are seeing varying degrees of 'looseness'.  dminches, your description is identical to what I am seeing, btw.  The connector basically just hangs on the pin.  But none of us have experienced performance problems with them.  I am starting to feel better but would love to hear from others with the Woo adapter just to be absolutely sure.


----------



## dminches

My co-worker has the woo adapters too for his WA6SE and hasn't had any issues.  Given the length of the connector on the tube itself I can't see any issues with Woo's design.


----------



## Icenine2

You have a co-worker who has a Woo?  Awesome to even know someone who's into audio these days let alone own a great amp.


----------



## dminches

Well, these aren't independent events.  I took him to a south jersey meet and exposed him to this madness.  Now we swap tubes and music.


----------



## bfreedma

Quote: 





thrak said:


> Thanks everyone for your feedback.  Those of you with Glenn and keph adapters have a nice positive connection.  It seems that the 3 of us who have Woo adapters are seeing varying degrees of 'looseness'.  dminches, your description is identical to what I am seeing, btw.  The connector basically just hangs on the pin.  But none of us have experienced performance problems with them.  I am starting to feel better but would love to hear from others with the Woo adapter just to be absolutely sure.


 
   
  Just to be clear, my Woo adapter connections grab the pins.  There is still some ability to wiggle the connector, but it has a solid grab.


----------



## Icenine2

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Well, these aren't independent events.  I took him to a south jersey meet and exposed him to this madness.  Now we swap tubes and music.


 
  How cool is that to have someone you're working w/to swap tubes.


----------



## Sid-Fi

My 596 adapters were from Glenn and they fit very nicely and snug. For me, I'll always look to Glenn for adapters first as long as he is making them. I had Woo Audio adapters for 6F8G tubes. They looked gorgeous, but fit a little loose and picked up a little microphonics from the rectifier.
  Quote: 





thrak said:


> Thanks everyone for your feedback.  Those of you with Glenn and keph adapters have a nice positive connection.  It seems that the 3 of us who have Woo adapters are seeing varying degrees of 'looseness'.  dminches, your description is identical to what I am seeing, btw.  The connector basically just hangs on the pin.  But none of us have experienced performance problems with them.  I am starting to feel better but would love to hear from others with the Woo adapter just to be absolutely sure.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Very nicely done. That's the way to go, take it upon yourself to grow the hobby around you .
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Well, these aren't independent events.  I took him to a south jersey meet and exposed him to this madness.  Now we swap tubes and music.


----------



## dminches

It makes it that much more fun.  On Saturday we had 4 headamps on my house (Decware Taboo, Leben CS-300SX, Cary SLI-80, and WA6SE).  We never got around to listening to all of them.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice lineup!


----------



## bfreedma

The 596 has arrived.  Thanks to Ultrainferno for the sourcing and dminches for the domestic coordination.
   
  These things are like dogs, right?  I'm letting the new 596 out of his cage and allowing him to see his older brother, but keeping them separated


----------



## dminches

Very nice, Ben.  Now we need to see the others arrive at their new homes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Great Pics, Ben!   Can't wait for Thursday night!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hibuckhobby said:


> Just put in a bid on a WA2 to go along with my WA6.  This thread has not been good for
> my wallet and as I'm reading through it, I'm only up to page 700.  *Hard to imagine what will *
> *happen to me by the time I've read all the way to the end *
> 
> ...


----------



## Hibuckhobby

I got it!  It should be here Friday or probably next monday with holiday shipping 
  that is going on.  Extra rectifiers as well as a variety of 6080's.  Yes, of course
  I'm already looking for 5998's...but I am pumped!   Now the waiting begins.
  Hibuck....


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Zheng

Quote: 





dminches said:


> My co-worker has the woo adapters too for his WA6SE and hasn't had any issues.  Given the length of the connector on the tube itself I can't see any issues with Woo's design.


 
   

   
  As I noted to David (my boss) earlier today, the connector from woo adaptor fit nicely on top of the 596


----------



## longbowbbs

That is a sweet look!


----------



## Silent One

Display quality, to be sure.


----------



## Zheng

Quote: 





dminches said:


> It makes it that much more fun.  On Saturday we had 4 headamps on my house (Decware Taboo, Leben CS-300SX, Cary SLI-80, and WA6SE).  We never got around to listening to all of them.


 
  David, there's also a Manley Stingray II that was sitting in the car that I did not bring it into your house that day.


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1. The silver WA6 looks great with the Woo adapter gold and black tubes and wires. It really pops. 



longbowbbs said:


> That is a sweet look!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> +1. The silver WA6 looks great with the Woo adapter gold and black tubes and wires. It really pops.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

   
  Can you imagine the look on the faces of those who may have worked with this tube in years gone by. Feeling sentimental and pull up a search for a USAF-596 on the net and....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





bfreedma said:


> The 596 has arrived.  Thanks to Ultrainferno for the sourcing and dminches for the domestic coordination.
> 
> These things are like dogs, right?  I'm letting the new 596 out of his cage and allowing him to see his older brother, but keeping them separated


 
   
  all the tequila bottles in the back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





zheng said:


> As I noted to David (my boss) earlier today, the connector from woo adaptor fit nicely on top of the 596


 
   
   
  very very nice.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





bfreedma said:


> The 596 has arrived.  Thanks to Ultrainferno for the sourcing and dminches for the domestic coordination.
> 
> These things are like dogs, right?  I'm letting the new 596 out of his cage and allowing him to see his older brother, but keeping them separated


 
   
  My pleasure. They're looking good! How do they sound?


----------



## LAmitchell

Quote: 





dminches said:


> It makes it that much more fun.  On Saturday we had 4 headamps on my house (Decware Taboo, Leben CS-300SX, Cary SLI-80, and WA6SE).  We never got around to listening to all of them.


 
  WOW, looking at that list of amps and thinking about what they sounds like.... that's my idea of FUN.
   
   
  I've got the WA3 and I'm making myself enjoy it for at least a year before I upgrade. But, it is so 
  difficult not to fantasize about what other amps sound like!!  I mean, I really love the sound of this
  one, so to think it gets even better is very exciting!


----------



## Silent One

You mean, you've already exhausted Tube rollin' on the '3'? _S-t-r-e-t-c-h that year out!_


----------



## bfreedma

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> My pleasure. They're looking good! How do they sound?


 
   
  They sound fantastic.  The 596 is the only tube that has matched well to the 6GL7s.  The LCD3's really like the extra power that combination has over the other tubes I've rolled into the 6SE.


----------



## Silent One

'Ultra'....._another happy customer! _


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 'Ultra'....._another happy customer! _


 
   
  I haven't seen any different ones 
  I'm already receiving PM's about getting a new batch of 596 tubes.... but I was actually planning a huge 2399/5998 sale soon...


----------



## dminches

Mix and match!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's the sale I'm interested in. If the 5998-Glass goes "kaboom" or "ka-chink" I'm in BIG trouble!


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I haven't seen any different ones
> I'm already receiving PM's about getting a new batch of 596 tubes.... but I was actually planning a huge 2399/5998 sale soon...


 
  Woo-woo sign me up for that one.
  Hibuck...


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That's the sale I'm interested in. If the 5998-Glass goes "kaboom" or "ka-chink" I'm in BIG trouble!


 
   
   
  I know the feeling
  I bought two extra pair last winter for that exact same reason.  couldn't sleep at night thinking i might some day have to run my WA2 without 5998's
   
  now, almost a year later, i have these extra tubes im sure someone could be enjoying.  I want to sell them, i really do, but then i'd be back where i started.  worrying all the dang time about losing one of them


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's exactly why I have 7 left in my personal stock


----------



## longbowbbs

We'll be right over...h34r:


----------



## dminches

I have 4 and I don't even have an amp that uses them currently.


----------



## Silent One

I'm finding, vacuum tube rigs could benefit from contingency planning.


----------



## Hebra

wow.... tube stock for 7generation


----------



## WindyCityCy

Daddy could go for some 5998 action! Got enough GECs but need more power for the LCD2's...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What kind of window do you have in mind, Jan-Fev-Mar-Avr-Mai?


----------



## bmichels

No more news about The WA7 ? 
Any one had à chance to sera or hear it recently ? Any availability date yet ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i dont think its available yet.
   
  also i find it weird that no1 ever mentions the newer woo audio stuff. in particular, their WA234 super high end amp, their CD + DAC combo, or now, the WA7


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What kind of window do you have in mind, Jan-Fev-Mar-Avr-Mai?


 

  2399 in January! But we'll be needing 30 (tubes) this time. Auch!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i dont think its available yet.
> 
> also i find it weird that no1 ever mentions the newer woo audio stuff. in particular, their WA234 super high end amp, their CD + DAC combo, or now, the WA7


 
   
  I blame the WA7's awful looks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Allowing members to start out the New Year with a bang! I better start filling up my tea tins with more dollars, not dimes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I blame the WA7's awful looks


 
  ikr it looks hideous
   
  their wa234 looks pretty bad too, but the DAC and CD player look good, yet i haven't seen a review or thread or mention of them anywhere on head-fi.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Allowing members to start out the New Year with a bang! I better start filling up my tea tins with more dollars, not dimes.


 
   
  And do make a list if you happen to find members interested in 2399 tubes. 30 is a lot...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  30 is a lot. But as tube affectionados, are we not..._a driven lot?_ Timing will be key. Many will be in recovery this winter from year-end $pending. Spring, however, will bring renewal. Inside this listening room, anyway...


----------



## Pudu

Fitting avatar my friend. Nice.


----------



## Silent One

If Jack sent me out a WA234 on a 90-day loan (okay Jack, I'd settle for the WA7), its looks would certainly grow on me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If Jack sent me out a WA234 on a 90-day loan (okay Jack, I'd settle for the WA7), its looks would certainly grow on me.


 
   
  +1


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Anxiety rising.  My WA2 has been in the UPS system since the 11th and the online tracking says it's still sitting
  in the LA UPS store.  I contacted UPS and customer service said it should have already arrived and an inquiry
  needed to be launched by the seller.  That doesn't help my confidence because it was likely sent "ground" so
  it shouldn't be here yet...there should just be updates.  (so why did they say their records showed it had missed
  it's delivery date?)
   
  Have asked the seller to inquire on his end.  Hope it's nothing because this could get expensive fast for one of us.
  Hibuck.....


----------



## Draygonn

hibuckhobby said:


> Have asked the seller to inquire on his end.  Hope it's nothing because this could get expensive fast for one of us.
> Hibuck.....


It's probably somewhere in the Midwest right now. It was shipped ground so it will probably arrive early next week. I will stop by UPS tomorrow to ask why they haven't updated. It's insured, so we won't have any financial problems even if they misplace it.




silent one said:


> That's the sale I'm interested in. If the 5998-Glass goes "kaboom" or "ka-chink" I'm in BIG trouble!





rawrbington said:


> I know the feeling
> I bought two extra pair last winter for that exact same reason. couldn't sleep at night thinking i might some day have to run my WA2 without 5998's
> 
> now, almost a year later, i have these extra tubes im sure someone could be enjoying. I want to sell them, i really do, but then i'd be back where i started. worrying all the dang time about losing one of them





ultrainferno said:


> That's exactly why I have 7 left in my personal stock





dminches said:


> I have 4 and I don't even have an amp that uses them currently.



It's our civic duty to hoard 5998s  I now have three for the Crack. I lost one recently so I know the anxiety of wondering how long my supply will last...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

enjoying my WA2 tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  also i just realized its been a year since i purchased it! time really flies!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> enjoying my WA2 tonight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nicely presented, DG!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> It's our civic duty to hoard 5998s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Exactly, only 2 weeks ago I turned on one of my amps and the left channel 2399 tube went popopopopop.
  As I only have 7 left I decided to take out all my 2399/5998 tubes and replace them with Chathams and RCA's. Suppose I still live 50 years, and with only 7 tubes left, I better be economical


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> enjoying my WA2 tonight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet and clean DB!


----------



## john57

[size=medium]For me I like to use my best tubes first. When having a meal I am the opposite. I eat the worst part so that I can finish the meal with good thoughts and good taste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Exactly, only 2 weeks ago I turned on one of my amps and the left channel 2399 tube went popopopopop.
> As I only have 7 left I decided to take out all my 2399/5998 tubes and replace them with Chathams and RCA's. Suppose I still live 50 years, and with only 7 tubes left, I better be economical


----------



## Silent One

Our tomorrows are not guaranteed - I like using the best, period. Fine China and Glass...drinking, tubes or other.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> Our tomorrows are not guaranteed -...




Mine is. I got a Square Trade warranty for myself.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Mine is. I got a Square Trade warranty for myself.


 
  Nice!  Like your avatar BTW....What the boy was thinking, going to Mercedes I have no idea....


----------



## Pudu

Cheers.

I've been a Macca fan for decades ... but after the last few seasons I'm glad Lewis is moving. This season they picked up the championship, with both hands, and hurled it as far away from themselves as possible.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

The notice you like to get: 


 [size=inherit]
 [tr][size=inherit] [td][size=inherit] 12/17/2012[/size][/td] [td][size=inherit] 6:20 A.M.[/size][/td] [td][size=inherit] Out For Delivery[/size][/td] [/size][/tr] 
[/size]   All this after UPS telling me they didn't know where the package was.
  Draygonn has been great throughout and went the second mile in going back to the
  store for more info.
  regards,
  Hibuck.....


----------



## Silent One

_Whew! _


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Woo woo WA2...it arrived safe and sound. I let it warm up and am getting familiar with some of the
tubes I got...listening to Anne Bisson singing September in Montreal right now. 
Hibuck...


----------



## Silent One

Dare to say, it's going to be a warm & woozy night in Illinois...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gratz


----------



## Houbi

damn it's not that easy to take a nice shot in the dark... so i'm still practicing


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





houbi said:


> damn it's not that easy to take a nice shot in the dark... so i'm still practicing


 
   
  Nice! What tubes are you using?
  Edit: Found it in your profile:
   
_Vintage Tubes (WA2):
 - Rectifier: Telefunken EZ80 (1960, german military, matched pair)
 - Power: Sylvania 7236 (1963, matched pair)
 - Driver: Siemens E88CC (A4 series, gold pin, 1968, matched pair)_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice pics! 
   
   
  how are you enjoying the WA2/T1 setup?


----------



## Houbi

Those are german Siemens E88CC NOS, A4 series, i think 1968.
German Military Telefunken EZ80 NOS and 1963 Sylvania 7236.
The sound of the Tung-Sol 5998 didn't suit my needs, so they are 
going to be sold again.

The Combination of WA2 and T1 is absolutely what i was hopeing for.
I had so many jaw dropping moments, goosebumbs over and over in
the last two weeks. It got uncountable... 

This Combination really touches my Soul as never ever something did before.

Last friday i received my Yulong D18 DAC what turned out to be another great 
improvement of the overall performance. Last night (around midnight and later
on) the sound was so amazing and staggering, i would have to fight for words
to discribe it. It was sooooo astonishing!!

Well... By the end of the week the SOtM USB-HD (USB/SPDIF Converter) including
the separate battery/power-supply should arrive. At the moment it starts to get's difficult
to imagine even better performance. But i know there is, there will always be...  i think
that will be another step up, let's see.

Head-fi is CRUSHING my wallet so bad....


----------



## Pudu

Wish I could turn on my Woo2 + T1 for the first time ... again.


Congrats on a great set up.


----------



## Houbi

...indeed 
   
  my word's are certainly written by a newly infected tube-victim.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





houbi said:


> *Head-fi is CRUSHING my wallet so bad....*


 
   
  Well........at least you still have your I.D.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Wish I could turn on my Woo2 + T1 for the first time ... again.
> 
> 
> Congrats on a great set up.


 
   
  Did you leave your fantastic voyage (WA2/T1) behind in N. America?


----------



## Sid-Fi

I hate to say it, but "I told you so".
  Quote: 





houbi said:


> Those are german Siemens E88CC NOS, A4 series, i think 1968.
> German Military Telefunken EZ80 NOS and 1963 Sylvania 7236.
> The sound of the Tung-Sol 5998 didn't suit my needs, so they are
> going to be sold again.
> ...


----------



## Sid-Fi

ROFL, nice one SO
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well........at least you still have your I.D.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I wish someone had the WA2 locally. My WA22 is great, but I always wonder how I would like the WA2 since I have never heard.
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> Wish I could turn on my Woo2 + T1 for the first time ... again.
> Congrats on a great set up.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





houbi said:


> damn it's not that easy to take a nice shot in the dark... so i'm still practicing


 
  Looks a heck of a lot better than any of my attempts with the 2 in the dark.
   
   
  Noob question, is it OTL or transformer coupled that needs a load when running?


----------



## Silent One

I'd search the WA2 thread and/or place a "Wanted" Ad in the Buy/Sale/Trade forum "Seeks audition..."


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Love this WA2! Using telefunken rectifiers, JAN 6080's and switching between 
Mullard 2492's and sylvania 6922's for drivers. Great with hd650's and hd700's.
Much to learn about these combo's...great depth on "Joshua judges Ruth" by 
Lyle Lovett. Gonna be a fun trip.
Hibuck....


----------



## longbowbbs

Tubes and 650's...Awesome combo!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

anyone else use JAN Sylvania 7308s in their WA2?


----------



## Sid-Fi

+1 



longbowbbs said:


> Tubes and 650's...Awesome combo!


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> Did you leave your fantastic voyage (WA2/T1) behind in N. America?




Nope, never! 

I was just thinking back my first week with the Woo2-T1 pairing and remembering the same giddy excitement Houbi is currently enjoying.



sid-fi said:


> I wish someone had the WA2 locally. My WA22 is great, but I always wonder how I would like the WA2 since I have never heard




Well if you can convince yourself that Delhi is 'local', come on over! We'll whip up some paneer bhaji, chutney, chapati, and a couple of cold Kingfishers while the tubes warm up.


----------



## grokit

_Sold in under two hours:_
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/641810/fs-woo-audio-wa5-black-w-wooden-shipping-crates
   
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think it's transformer coupled, perhaps someone can confirm.


----------



## Draygonn

hibuckhobby said:


> Love this WA2! Using telefunken rectifiers, JAN 6080's and switching between
> Mullard 2492's and sylvania 6922's for drivers. Great with hd650's and hd700's.
> Much to learn about these combo's...great depth on "Joshua judges Ruth" by
> Lyle Lovett. Gonna be a fun trip.
> Hibuck....



Enjoy!



grokit said:


> _Sold in under two hours:_


The buyer also grabbed my HD800s. Glad to see they will still be in WooVille.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Enjoy!
> The buyer also grabbed my HD800s. Glad to see they will still be in WooVille.


 
   
  ooooh, i bet he'll be very happy with the WA5 + HD 800


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> anyone else use JAN Sylvania 7308s in their WA2?


 
   
  I started with 5998s but I didn't like the sound, I'm using RCA 6A7G now and I'm very happy
  I do think it is transformer coupled. I never plug in my headphones in any of the OTL amps I have when turning on/off.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I started with 5998s but I didn't like the sound, I'm using RCA 6A7G now and I'm very happy
> I do think it is transformer coupled. I never plug in my headphones in any of the OTL amps I have when turning on/off.


 
  Probably good advice.
   
  I thought it was the trans coupled that needed the load.  
  Do all 6AS7 varients sound similar?
  I've had the 6AS7G RCA's but never anything else.  I notice the GEC version sells for a crap load of money.  and then Soveteks and other Russians are dirt cheap.  
   
  Really the RCA is a great deal for a good tube.  Problem i've had with them is noise/hum.  but its not noticable when the music is playing.


----------



## Ultrainferno

6AS7G is a tube that often hums, you have to be a bit lucky. I have a great pair of Chathams but they hum as well, but you can't hear it when music's playing.
  There is a lot of difference between the 6AS7G tube brands, we even have a dedicated 6AS7G tube rolling thread


----------



## Rawrbington

LCD2 incoming.  There seems to be some confusion as to whether the WA2 can drive em.  However i've seen several threads/reviews talking about the LCD2 and the HE500 both being driven perfectly fine by the WA2.  And the HE500 is much less effecient than the LCD right?
   
  Oh well, I've got a small arsenal of vintage iron I plan to use as backup if my Woo with 5998's can't get the job done.
   
  and then i guess i could always move the 2 or try to trade for a 6SE.  But I really really like the warmth of the 2 and the pre amp.  Kinda why i got it in the first place. 
   
  they get here friday so i'll report back then.  Hopefully its good news lol


----------



## Pudu

I never had vintage and LCD2s concurrently, but I suspect that combo will be more pleasing than the WA2 + LCD2. Be sure to post your impressions - I'm interested in how they sound together.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I never use the WA2 with the LCD2. If I do use tubes I use it with the 339, but mostly I use the V200.
  I really should sell the LCD2.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> LCD2 incoming.  There seems to be some confusion as to whether the WA2 can drive em.  However i've seen several threads/reviews talking about the LCD2 and the HE500 both being driven perfectly fine by the WA2.  And the HE500 is much less effecient than the LCD right?
> 
> Oh well, I've got a small arsenal of vintage iron I plan to use as backup if my Woo with 5998's can't get the job done.
> 
> ...


 
   
  gratz on your purchase, please let me know how they sound with your WA2. i know i experience clipping with my WA2 and theres no way it can run the LCD-2, anything past half volume clips and theres like no bass on the LCD-2.


----------



## migasson

Hello HeadFi

New member here.

I've added Beyerdynamic T90's and Woo WA22.

My front end consists of Rega P5, Rega TT PSU, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Musical Surroundings Phenomena II Phono Stage.

The BEST sound I've ever heard. Benz Ace/Glider upgrade to come.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats & welcome, migasson! _Nice kit by-the-way..._


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Rig pic! I miss my rig  out of the country for me xD


----------



## Silent One

ViceriousZERO, who makes the tube phone stage; TT, in your shot?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





silent one said:


> ViceriousZERO, who makes the tube phone stage; TT, in your shot?


 
   
  Pro-Ject, I believe its a Tube Box II SE


----------



## Silent One

FYI --
   
One of my sources for the United Electronics USAF-596 just turned up more stock, after being sold out for nearly 8-10 months. Will learn quantity, price and vintage tomorrow.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Thanks, gonna look the little one over some tonight...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> FYI --
> 
> One of my sources for the United Electronics USAF-596 just turned up more stock, after being sold out for nearly 8-10 months. Will learn quantity, price and vintage tomorrow.


----------



## Silent One

1954 USAF-596; Original boxes. 20 in stock. $90 for singles; discount begins with 3; bigger discount with handful or more.


----------



## migasson

Cheers. Best sound I've ever heard. Vinyl, plus WA22, just magic thru my T90's


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 1954 USAF-596; Original boxes. 20 in stock. $90 for singles; discount begins with 3; bigger discount with handful or more.


 
   





  
   
  wish i had the money right now to join the 596 club


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nice box! I only had the white whole sale boxes so far.
  Price is even more :O


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I need to know where to get upgrades (Preferably Sophia) for my WA6-SE :c


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> I need to know where to get upgrades (Preferably Sophia) for my WA6-SE :c


 
   
  woo audio website for sophia upgrade.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

dubstep girl said:


> woo audio website for sophia upgrade.




A local dealer is offering me the upgrade but their shipment comes in January...


----------



## JDrive

I recently received a new Woo Audio GES and SR-507. I notice a slight low frequency hum that appears to be volume independent and impossible to hear while music is playing. Between tracks it is definitely noticeable. I tried isolating what may be causing this hum by disconnecting the amp from my source, moving it onto a separate table, using a cheater plug and the hum was still present. I would like to see if there is anything else I could possibly try before sending an email to Woo Audio. Would replacing the no-name stock 6S4 power tubes have any effect? Besides this minor issue the amp is perfect and I would dread having to ship it back. I even have quad matched Mullard 12ax7 reissue tubes coming in next week that I can't wait to try out. I am new to tube amps so all of this is a little intimidating and any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Ah, but a new year awaits...filled with new opportunities!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Nice box! I only had the white whole sale boxes so far.
> Price is even more :O


 
   
I'm currently in talks for a group discount...of course, the_ other_ shopping is competing for my attention today as well. Yeah, the boxes have a built-in premium.





   
Prediction! $65-$70/ea.


----------



## shipsupt

It is entirely possible that it is a tube issue so swapping them out is a good place to start after the good troubleshooting you've done so far.
   
  I can tell you that my GES is DEAD quiet when there is no signal, even with the gained raised all the way.  This was a pleasant surprise with this amp.
   
  Sending an email to Jack for advice is never a bad option, chances are he's seen this before.
   
  Hopefully you find an easy fix and it's not something Jack needs to investigate.
   
  I've recently been rolling some tubes into the GES and found great results with some NOS 1961 white label Mullards and the Genelex Gold Lion re-issues.  I found the Mullards to be strong down low bringing a little more bass impact with a generally euphonic presentation.  Very enjoyable.  I've only had a few sessions with the gold lions but so far I find them to have great extensions high and low, and seem to provide very crisp detail, great instrument separation, with slightly less impact in the low end.  The jury is out on which I prefer in the long run.  I've been listening with the 007 MK II but I'll be getting my MK I's tomorrow so I'll have more variety to throw into the mix!
   
  Good luck with finding that hum!
   
   
  Quote: 





jdrive said:


> I recently received a new Woo Audio GES and SR-507. I notice a slight low frequency hum that appears to be volume independent and impossible to hear while music is playing. Between tracks it is definitely noticeable. I tried isolating what may be causing this hum by disconnecting the amp from my source, moving it onto a separate table, using a cheater plug and the hum was still present. I would like to see if there is anything else I could possibly try before sending an email to Woo Audio. Would replacing the no-name stock 6S4 power tubes have any effect? Besides this minor issue the amp is perfect and I would dread having to ship it back. I even have quad matched Mullard 12ax7 reissue tubes coming in next week that I can't wait to try out. I am new to tube amps so all of this is a little intimidating and any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Silent One

USAF-596 --
   
Final details still to come. Pledges for 10 rectifiers have been received with 10 remaining.


----------



## Rawrbington

The UPS guy went ninja and showed up to deliver my LCD2's at 10 am this morning.  I've never seen the ups truck on my street before 3 pm before.  I leave the house for 25 minutes in the morning and of course he tries to deliver.
   
  i checked the tracking.  says he left notice at 959 am.  I thought i left at 10:05.  He had to be waiting for me to leave.
   
  Now they say i m ight be able to pick them up tomorrow morning.
  or im stuck till the 26th
  so sad
  I guess these homely HD650s will have to do till then


----------



## longbowbbs

Slumming with 650's??!!  Life is not so bad!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> The UPS guy went ninja and showed up to deliver my LCD2's at 10 am this morning.  I've never seen the ups truck on my street before 3 pm before.  I leave the house for 25 minutes in the morning and of course he tries to deliver.


 
  thats happened to me be before too!


----------



## Rawrbington

I swear they hide out and wait for you to leave. Or take a shower!

Im wondering if the ppl who have had good luck with the lcd2 and the wa2 all have rev 1. Cause the rev 2s are the tougher one to drive right?

Can't wait to hear em. And see if these work with my 2. Im gonna be optimistic


----------



## reeltime

A good Head-Fi evening...


----------



## Silent One

A good Head-Fi evening.._.in reeltime._


----------



## WindyCityCy

Migasson

That's a sweet looking setup! I could see myself lying on the floor for hours listening to album after album!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Reeltime

Some beautiful camera work to go with some amazing equipment!


----------



## john57

Reeltime,
  Great setup what middle tubes are you using?


----------



## reeltime

The drivers are PSVANE Treasure series Mark II (CV181-TII aka 6SN7).  They just came out last week and arrived from China tonight.  They barely fit.  
   
   

   
   

   
  First listen has been remarkable-- not a bad way to spend a Friday night and kick off the Holiday weekend!
   
  Next month I'm changing the 300Bs but I'm still on the fence between the Sophia and the EMLs.  I'm leaning EML.


----------



## migasson

Sonic Youth.. "Made In The USA" soundtrack.., on vinyl, Seems appropriate listening to a Woo WA22


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> It is entirely possible that it is a tube issue so swapping them out is a good place to start after the good troubleshooting you've done so far.
> 
> I can tell you that my GES is DEAD quiet when there is no signal, even with the gained raised all the way.  This was a pleasant surprise with this amp.
> 
> ...


 
   
  We're going to have to encourage you for pix!


----------



## Silent One

*USAF-596 update:  *14 rectifiers have now been spoken for with 6 remaining...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> A good Head-Fi evening...


 
   
  Sometimes you just have to see the glass! Thanks for sharing; Gorgeous!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I so have to stop looking at and reading this thread, it's not good for my finances.
  If Clayton would be so kind to come over again in 2013 I could maybe order a new Woo to ad to the collection, else I would be woo-less if he takes the WA2 back  But which one...
   
  Maybe the Glenn amp, but I haven't heard back from him so I'm not counting on that one, or maybe that Decware Taboo for my speakers and Orthos...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I so have to stop looking at and reading this thread, it's not good for my finances.
> If Clayton would be so kind to come over again in 2013 I could maybe order a new Woo to ad to the collection, else I would be woo-less if he takes the WA2 back  But which one...
> 
> Maybe the Glenn amp, but I haven't heard back from him so I'm not counting on that one, or maybe that Decware Taboo for my speakers and Orthos...


 
  You know the Woo is good...I can vouch for the Decware!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I so have to stop looking at and reading this thread, it's not good for my finances.
> If Clayton would be so kind to come over again in 2013 I could maybe order a new Woo to ad to the collection, else I would be woo-less if he takes the WA2 back  But which one...
> 
> Maybe the Glenn amp, but I haven't heard back from him so I'm not counting on that one, or maybe that Decware Taboo for my speakers and Orthos...


 
   
  Oh, but you should! I'm certain you'll hear from him shortly. In addition to working like a mad man inside the studio, he's gotta full-time gig.


----------



## Rawrbington

Got the LCD2 rev 2s this morning.  They sound OK out of the WA2.  But better out of my recapped 2270.
  They just sound more dull out of the WA2.  they lose a bit of energy.
  To smooth perhaps?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> If Clayton would be so kind to come over again in 2013 I could maybe order a new Woo to ad to the collection, else I would be woo-less if he takes the WA2 back  But which one...


 
  And it is not good for my back if I transport another amp in my backpack
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  But, I've always wanted the WA Phono Amplifier. It uses voltage-regulator tubes.


----------



## Ultrainferno

What does the phono amp have to do with me?


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Nothing. I just needed to mention a Woo amp because this is a woo thread.


----------



## Rawrbington

does that thing really exist?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> does that thing really exist?


 
   
  It's been discontinued. I found it on the Woo blog shown at about 3/4 down the web page.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

What would people do if someone signed in with the WA-234?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> What would people do if someone signed in with the WA-234?


 
   
  Compare their name to the recent Powerball winners...


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Compare their name to the recent Powerball winners...


 
   
  Ha ha!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  By chance, do you know what it went for back in the day? And was it worthy, just not popular or cost effective?


----------



## longbowbbs

They brought it out a bit early in the vinyl renaissance....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> What would people do if someone signed in with the WA-234?


 
   
*If Jack Wu kindly sent one out to me on loan* (terms to be settled), I'm not sure what the reaction would be in this thread. But, I'd like to find out!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> They brought it out a bit early in the vinyl renaissance....


 
   
  Just as I'm returning to vinyl this autumn/winter!


----------



## Silent One

USAF-596 rectifiers...
   

   
  ...15 are now spoken for with 5 remaining.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just as I'm returning to vinyl this autumn/winter!


 
  I think Audio Research has a nice tube phono stage for $11,995.00.....Just in time for Christmas!


----------



## Clayton SF

I own several phono preamps and I have two favorites:
   
  1. The Transcription Amplifier by Eddie Current ($1,500); and
  2. The Zen Triode Phono Stage, Model ZP3, ($1,195) by Decware.


----------



## longbowbbs

The Decware is beautiful and the tubes are inexpensive.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I own several phono preamps and I have two favorites:
> 
> 1. The Transcription Amplifier by Eddie Current ($1,500); and
> 2. The Zen Triode Phono Stage, Model ZP3, ($1,195) by Decware.


 
   
  By chance, did you ever learn of the history of the Phono amp from Jack?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> By chance, did you ever learn of the history of the Phono amp from Jack?


 
  I did not. I suspect it was a prototype but it's just a guess because I have never ever seen anyone mention that they had ever owned one nor heard one.


----------



## Silent One

*It's a wrap! The sale of the USAF-596 rectifier just went final!** Still pending 3 rectifiers.*


----------



## longbowbbs

Woo hoo....(ok...that was obvious!)
   
  Christmas comes again!


----------



## Silent One

_S-m-o-k-i-n-' . . . _


----------



## Silent One

USAF-596
   
  Working on getting another clean 20-count in Jan/Feb...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Woo hoo....(ok...that was obvious!)
> 
> Christmas comes again!


 
   
  You know, I was thinking...maybe I should take one out of inventory and smash it on the floor in celebration. Much like plates at a wedding. If I do this Monday/Tuesday, I'm going to have to include audio/video. I love the way glass sounds when it shatters. "Ka-chink" or something like that...


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Plates might be easier & cheaper to replace


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You know, I was thinking...maybe I should take one out of inventory and smash it on the floor in celebration. Much like plates at a wedding. If I do this Monday/Tuesday, I'm going to have to include audio/video. I love the way glass sounds when it shatters. "Ka-chink" or something like that...


 
  I think it will sound better in an amp....just sayin...


----------



## xinque

Hrm..  just noticed the glass on my rectifier tubes had started browning.  Could someone tell me if this is normal or a sign the tube is dying?  Only started looking at them because I lost sound in a channel, swapped out the tubes and seems fine now.  Was using EML-5U4G meshies if that helps.


----------



## Silent One

Rectifiers can and will darken. Miss Sophia (274B Mesh) darkened in only two weeks of play. But I wouldn't describe it as "browning." Darkening, yes. Well, maybe...


----------



## Silent One

*USAF-596 final sale is pending... (potentially 3 tubes remaining)*
   
  Jack was interested in acquiring 10 when I submitted the offer. But fellow members swooped in to secure 7, leaving only three. Trying to see if Jack will accept an "odd-lot." If not, 3 rectifiers will remain open. Should hear back from him overnight; Sunday...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Got the LCD2 rev 2s this morning.  They sound OK out of the WA2.  But better out of my recapped 2270.
> They just sound more dull out of the WA2.  they lose a bit of energy.
> To smooth perhaps?


 
   
  is there any clipping as you raise the volume? for me, they clip past half, especially on music that has any sort of bass.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
*O*, but this will be in the spirit of a party! A one year anniversary, if you would. Obtained my first '596' in Autumn 2011. Louis Roederer Estate or Veuve-Clicquot selection dependent, and this could easily turn into a few hundred dollar celebration of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




one.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> USAF-596
> 
> Working on getting another clean 20-count in Jan/Feb...


 
   
  good job! then I'll keep my source for may/june. I'll be needing some by then too


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You might want to move yours up. Confirmed with my source today this is it until another forgotten/hidden batch is found, much like this one.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You might want to move yours up. Confirmed with my source today this is it until another forgotten/hidden batch is found, much like this one.


 
   
  Ok, just tell me when!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well...if sources dry up... and I'm shown destroying a '596' on YouTube...forget email, I'm calling you the moment a mob forms outside the window to the listening room!


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





xinque said:


> Hrm..  just noticed the glass on my rectifier tubes had started browning.  Could someone tell me if this is normal or a sign the tube is dying?  Only started looking at them because I lost sound in a channel, swapped out the tubes and seems fine now.  Was using EML-5U4G meshies if that helps.


 
   
  I wouldn't worry about it. My EML 5U4G mesh plate has clocked about 1000+ hours and it has a dark diffraction grating pattern inside the glass. I posted pics at http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325#post_8305692


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


>


 
   
  Always good to see you around, kchew! Can we interest you in a pair of clean USAF-596 rectifiers in original boxes?




   
  The remaining three went before I could type this message above.


----------



## Silent One

*Okay, the 20-count of USAF-596 rectifiers just went final! *Will have details for those who pledged in a day or two...stay tuned.


----------



## kchew

Thanks Silent One, but I already have four of them, and I would feel guilty hording more. I would like new owners to have them instead. But thanks for the offer!


----------



## Silent One

I forgot you are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well stocked! Hope life is good half way around the world.


----------



## kchew

I'm doing pretty good down here. I temporarily swapped out the 596 for the EML 5U4G mesh, since it's such a festive looking tube.


----------



## Silent One

Change of pace does the brain good!


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well...if sources dry up... and I'm shown destroying a '596' on YouTube...forget email, I'm calling you the moment a mob forms outside the window to the listening room!


 
   
   
  I'll be outside watching...................................


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's so wrong.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Time to sleep...back up @ 1400! Good day everyone...


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> is there any clipping as you raise the volume? for me, they clip past half, especially on music that has any sort of bass.


 
   
  Yeah if i turn it up to what i'd call loud it starts to clip i think..  past 1 oclock it starts sounding bad.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That's so wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Dream 596, count multiples of 596 to fall asleep..............
   
  Good night!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Yeah if i turn it up to what i'd call loud it starts to clip i think..  past 1 oclock it starts sounding bad.


 
   
  yup same here, seems like we both have the same issues with our WA2. 
   
  however, other people haven't had this problem.
   
  we still have the same rig too, down to the same software


----------



## Rawrbington

makes me wonder if we have a latter or slightly dif version of the WA2 than the others.  Or if somehow the DLIII is responsible.  but i doubt that.
   
  I'd hate to part with the 2 but the 6SE is looking more and more attractive every day. 
  i love the pre amp on it, but its hard to justify a 1000$ preamp with a couple hudred worth of tubes in it, when nothing else i have is that expensive


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I'm doing pretty good down here. I temporarily swapped out the 596 for the EML 5U4G mesh, since it's such a festive looking tube.


 
  x2
   
  Both of my in-use 596 tubes are now shelved. Making the rounds are both of my EML 5U4G tubes. They have been hopscotching my amps. They are now working in the Decware ZP3 phonostage and the WA22.


----------



## longbowbbs

Looking good Clayton! What TT and cartridge are you using currently?


----------



## xinque

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. My EML 5U4G mesh plate has clocked about 1000+ hours and it has a dark diffraction grating pattern inside the glass. I posted pics at http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325#post_8305692


 
   
  Thanks for the reassurances guys !  Still couldn't figure out why the right channel went out there but it's working now.  All I did was change a few sets of tubes to see if I had a dead one, then put back in the tubes I had to start with and it was working again.  Also tightened the input selector with a hex key and switched it back and forth a few.  Any ideas what the problem might've been?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> makes me wonder if we have a latter or slightly dif version of the WA2 than the others.  Or if somehow the DLIII is responsible.  but i doubt that.
> 
> I'd hate to part with the 2 but the 6SE is looking more and more attractive every day.
> i love the pre amp on it, but its hard to justify a 1000$ preamp with a couple hudred worth of tubes in it, when nothing else i have is that expensive


 
   
  keep both like i do


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Looking good Clayton! What TT and cartridge are you using currently?


 

 It is the Pro-Ject Xperience Classic, Olive Wood, with the cartridge it came with: the Sumiko Blue Point No.2.
   
  It is now $200 less than when I paid for it.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2
> 
> Both of my in-use 596 tubes are now shelved. Making the rounds are both of my EML 5U4G tubes. They have been hopscotching my amps. They are now working in the Decware ZP3 phonostage and the WA22.


 
   
   
  Is that some kind of PremaLuna amp?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is the Pro-Ject Xperience Classic, Olive Wood, with the cartridge it came with: the Sumiko Blue Point No.2.
> 
> It is now $200 less than when I paid for it.


 
  Looks like someone is going head to head with the VPI Traveler. I have always enjoyed Sumiko cartridges. Very nice!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Is that some kind of PremaLuna amp?


 
   
  Yes. I had that PrimaLuna setup yesterday. It is the PrimaLuna DiaLogue 2. But I really like the sound of the Mini Torii so that is today's setup.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. I had that PrimaLuna setup yesterday. It is the PrimaLuna DiaLogue 2. But I really like the sound of the Mini Torii so that is today's setup.


 
   
  So do you use the PrimaLuna with head phones from the speaker taps?


----------



## Clayton SF

No. I use it as a speaker amp only.


----------



## Instrumental

I thought I had my day all planned out and then I went to check my mail and found this:
  [

  Oh lawd, time to go into my cave.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> I thought I had my day all planned out and then I went to check my mail and found this:
> [
> Oh lawd, time to go into my cave.


 

 I see where Santa made his first stop.


----------



## Instrumental

Yeah, I will have to get him extra milk and cookies for that one! The first album I'm playing through it is probably my favorite this year: "Eighty One" by Yppah. It's so gorgeous.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> Yeah, I will have to get him extra milk and cookies for that one! The first album I'm playing through it is probably my favorite this year: "Eighty One" by Yppah. It's so gorgeous.


 
   
  I'll check out that album. Thanks.
  I'm listening to Secret Garden _white stones_.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> I thought I had my day all planned out and then I went to check my mail and found this:
> [
> 
> Oh lawd, time to go into my cave.


 
   
  What an 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 interruption! Congrats...


----------



## Instrumental

I'll do the same! From some of the tracks I found online, it sounds like a lovely album!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice!


----------



## Rawrbington

Oh man very nice!
  congrats!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> I thought I had my day all planned out and then I went to check my mail and found this:
> [
> 
> Oh lawd, time to go into my cave.


 
   
  Sah-weet! Enjoy! xD
   
  One of my friends is pushing me to get a 234. xD


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Yes. I had that PrimaLuna setup yesterday. It is the PrimaLuna DiaLogue 2. But I really like the sound of the Mini Torii so that is today's setup.


 
  Very curious to hear your comparison of the Woo versus the PrimaLuna.  I have a Prologue Two that I have been using recently with the HE-Adapter and the LCD-2.2.  I still prefer the sound of the WA22.  Something about the sound of the WA22....bass is so deep, detailed and controlled, and the treble has such beautiful delicacy and extension.  To my ears, my PrimaLuna is very rolled off in the treble.  The WA22 is my dad's that he let me borrow for a few weeks, and I'll admit that I was extremely sad when it was time to give it back.


----------



## Instrumental

Thanks guys =) Decided to take a night photo:


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> Thanks guys =) Decided to take a night photo:


 
   
  Tripod!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





instrumental said:


> Thanks guys =) Decided to take a night photo:


 
  ...."and then officer, the ship landed out in the cornfield!".....


----------



## brat

_The search engine doesn't help and I don't need a new thread so let's try here:_
  Some opinions on the WEE energizer? I have Omega 2mk2 and use it with KGSS but I wonder how will this energizer couple the omegas with speaker amps. Has anyone tried O2+WEE?


----------



## shipsupt

This one looks like it has some answers if you don't get some responses here...
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/504471/wee-new-product-from-woo-audio/150


----------



## GrindingThud

Anyone using 6N1P in their WA3+?  I've been mining the various threads for days and it seems this tube is being used quite a bit in other amps with good results.


----------



## longbowbbs

The 6N1P is a great and cheap driver tube...No idea if it works in the WA3 though.


----------



## LAmitchell

I just sold my WOOAUDIO3, and the withdraw is pretty rough!
  (I thought I could get by just listening to my DRAGONFLY, but
  I miss that non-fatigue tube sound).
   
  My question is, should I go ahead and buy another WA3, or should
  I experiment with getting a WA6 instead?  
   
  (I'm using HD25-II, but plan on getting HD600 or LCD-2)
   
  Thanks in advance for any advice. 
   
  LAmitchell


----------



## grokit

For the LCD2 you would be better off leapfrogging to the WA6SE.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> For the LCD2 you would be better off leapfrogging to the WA6SE.


 
   
  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +2


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





grokit said:


> For the LCD2 you would be better off leapfrogging to the WA6SE.


 
   
  I agree as well.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

grokit said:


> For the LCD2 you would be better off leapfrogging to the WA6SE.



+100


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> I just sold my WOOAUDIO3, and the withdraw is pretty rough!
> (I thought I could get by just listening to my DRAGONFLY, but
> I miss that non-fatigue tube sound).
> 
> ...


 

 i had the lcd2 coupled with my wa6 and it was terrible.i didnt like the lcd2 much and the areas where i had problems with(soundstage,air,treble,detail) my wa6 couldnt cure. i had hd650 couple of years ago and it was great with the wa6 and sophia.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

but LCD-2 works great with WA6-SE


----------



## VisceriousZERO

LCDs are beautiful especially after burn-in


----------



## LAmitchell

Okay, sounds like I gotta save up for the 6SE - Thanks for the advice


----------



## VisceriousZERO

*drool*


----------



## WindyCityCy

Happy NYE Everybody!  Enjoy your Woos for another year


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Yes! Thank you, WindyCityCy...
  Happy New Year to you, Too.


----------



## grokit




----------



## migasson

I'm listening to my WA22 via T90's, playing records... Even fed an unbalanced signal (hope to be cured soon with a GCPH or Violectric PPA V600 phono stages..) it just blows me away. Transparency, but with just the right amount of warmth.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lamitchell said:


> Okay, sounds like I gotta save up for the 6SE - Thanks for the advice


 
   
  This will afford you time...to choose Black decide what colour 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for the _6 Special Edition._


----------



## shipsupt

It's amazing how the silver amps sound better...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> It's amazing how the silver amps sound better...


 
  Really?


----------



## Solude

I prefer the blackground of the black ones better.  Silver models are too bright


----------



## Icenine2

How many Master Locks do you have to stack to get one of these?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> *drool*


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> How many Master Locks do you have to stack to get one of these?


 
  MasterWoo Amps


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Okay, the 20-count of USAF-596 rectifiers just went final! *Will have details for those who pledged in a day or two...stay tuned.


 
   
  What about me???  Did you forget about me???


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Better.....on what day?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 I thought my brother was all set.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





solude said:


> I prefer the blackground of the black ones better.  Silver models are too bright


 
   
*Once you go Black... *


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I thought my brother was all set.


 
   
   
  I want that nice looking box...


----------



## mAnthony

That is drool-worthy. My gods.
  
  Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> *drool*


----------



## VisceriousZERO

silent one said:


> *Once you go Black... *




You never go silver!


----------



## Icenine2

Yeah don't go silver............go dust magnet!


----------



## Hibuckhobby

I must have missed something...I did say I wanted in.
Oh well...
Hibuck...


----------



## silversurfer616

New Woo owner here....only WA6 but with the LCD2 soooo much better than my Phoenix!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Researching the matter now with my seller who has to contact his supplier...


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> New Woo owner here....only WA6 but with the LCD2 soooo much better than my Phoenix!


 
   
  No kidding?  That's saying a lot


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> New Woo owner here....only WA6 but with the LCD2 soooo much better than my Phoenix!


 
   
  When I had the Woo 6se and the Audio-gd Roc I felt that they were about equal. So surprised you find the Woo6 better than the Phoenix.


----------



## stainless824

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa7fireflies.html
   
  its out guys
   
  offtopic,
   
  as this is a high traffic thread, can anyone help me with this guy? its really getting out of control
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/644194/rude-as-hell-head-fier-gave-him-a-good-schooling-for-what-its-worth#post_9015492


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





stainless824 said:


> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa7fireflies.html
> 
> its out guys


 
   
  Nope, still don't like the design.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





stainless824 said:


> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa7fireflies.html
> 
> its out guys
> 
> ...


 

 dont want to derail the thread but regarding your thread that was rightfully locked.you didnt say the whole story.  you didnt provide the screenshot of you warning him about the 3 months period AND that he agrees about that option.i find it hard to believe that someone who can afford sub $600 refuse to pay 30-40$ more inorder for his package to arrive safely.
  anyway,it should be between you and the other guy and Currawong.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

anyways currawong and ultrainferno where right, they didn't listen to the warning on the fs/ft forum, so their fault.
   
   
   
  back on the new woo amp, do you guys think it might replace WA3 and even the WA6 anytime soon?


----------



## Redcarmoose

+

   
  So happy about the new dolly option for 2013.


----------



## Clayton SF

_*But first they have to make sure that the Woo gets to Yoo.*_
   
  DELIVERING THE _*WA234 MONO BLOCKS*_


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

That would be proper drop shipping then, eh?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> _*But first they have to make sure that the Woo gets to Yoo.*_
> 
> DELIVERING THE _*WA234 MONO BLOCKS*_


 
   
  That looks about right.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice Clayton!


----------



## PanamaRed

Hi guys. It's been a while since of been on the forums. I've been laying low and buying vinyl. Going against my better judgment I decided to start buying more expensive tubes for my 22. I came across the group deal for the 596 tubes and contacted silent one. I came to find out the deal was over and apparently there were some problems with the tubes.

So I contacted my local tube guy. He checked his warehouse and looked for a couple of tubes for me. He came back with two that look unused. He told me he had plenty more in the warehouse and I asked him do a count. I want to help people get a 596 for themselves but seeing that I'm not a tube dealer I can't really guarantee anything beyond them looking new. I'm still waiting for the count I'll let you guys know what I find out and pricing if we buy in bulk. I just want to be upfront with everybody and stay right from the get-go that I can do whatever I can to get them a tube but I can't guarantee them at all. I realize that prospect might be offputting to some people but I just want to be upfront with everybody. I can't wait to hear these myself. Like I said I'm still waiting for my adapter from Glenn. Here's a picture one of the bad boys: I'm not sure what the original boxes look like or if this is them but they seem to include these little cathode plugs


----------



## PanamaRed

http://s2.postimage.org/q7t143bop/image.jpg

Bleh. Bigger picture (hopefully)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





panamared said:


> http://s2.postimage.org/q7t143bop/image.jpg
> Bleh. Bigger picture (hopefully)


 
  Looks good PR!...BTW, the 596 is awesome in the CSP2+....


----------



## GrindingThud

So, after lurking on these forums for a while and posting here and there, I have succumb to the call of Woo. WA3+ to be precise. Current setup is iTouch gen4 serving lossless 16 and 24bit to a Pure i20 and then to the Woo and into HD558s on my head as I'm typing this. Tubes are 6Н1П-ЕВ and 6H13C Winged =C=. Tried some RCA 6GU7 with side getters and it sounded ok, then right back to the soviet tubes for an extended session. Background is dead black and I'm extremely pleased that I decided to get this amp, although I think my wallet is a bit confused. Unit appears to be a newish one, early 2011. There seems to be interest periodically in pics of the innards of the woo variants, so I've attached some below showing the hybrid circuit card point-to-point style. I look forward to participating in some of the rolling threads and mods.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





panamared said:


> Hi guys. It's been a while since of been on the forums. I've been laying low and buying vinyl. Going against my better judgment I decided to start buying more expensive tubes for my 22. I came across the group deal for the 596 tubes and contacted silent one. I came to find out the deal was over and apparently there were some problems with the tubes.
> 
> So I contacted my local tube guy. He checked his warehouse and looked for a couple of tubes for me. He came back with two that look unused. He told me he had plenty more in the warehouse and I asked him do a count. I want to help people get a 596 for themselves but seeing that I'm not a tube dealer I can't really guarantee anything beyond them looking new. I'm still waiting for the count I'll let you guys know what I find out and pricing if we buy in bulk. I just want to be upfront with everybody and stay right from the get-go that I can do whatever I can to get them a tube but I can't guarantee them at all. I realize that prospect might be offputting to some people but I just want to be upfront with everybody. I can't wait to hear these myself. Like I said I'm still waiting for my adapter from Glenn. Here's a picture one of the bad boys: I'm not sure what the original boxes look like or if this is them but they seem to include these little cathode plugs


 
   
  Thanks for returning with a larger pix. Just for the sake of clarity, there were only problems with "no flashing" with a few of the tubes, not all of them. Like many a buried treasure, once unearth it may or may not serve.


----------



## radiolight

Hello all,
   
  After following this thread, I took the plunge and ordered and received a WA6 SE which came with Shuguang 274B and Sylvania 6ew7s tubes.  I am far from an audiophile so my setup is pretty basic and is as follows:  iPod nano --> Pure i-20 (it has a built in DAC) --> WA6 SE --> Beyerdynamic DT880 600Ohms or Grado SR325is.
   
  The stock tubes sounded ok, I suppose.  From reading recommendations from this thread, I then upgraded to EML 5u4g mesh plate.  This new config sounds ok.  It has slightly more bass (but still lacking) then with the Shuguang 274B but the vocals are more forward for my taste.
   
  Then I read about Brimar 5r4gy which seems like an economical solution to my little issue.  But, they seem to be hard to find.  My question is that is Philips 5r4gys (made in Holland) a good sconic equivalent to the Brimar?  Upscale Audio has them at the moment.  I am not sure what the extra suffix 's' means.  Any advise is appreciated.
   
  And one final question, what other power/drive tubes should I try with EML 5u4g and 5r4gy to improve the sound quality?  I listen mainly to rock, pop, classical (no particular order).
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

aren't the 6FD7 tubes supposed to have nice bass, more than the 6EW7?


----------



## migasson

Just a side note...

After running a balanced phono stage, a PS Audio GCPH, into my WA22, rather then a Musical Surroundings Phenomena II (single ended) I did note a difference, much tighter rhythm, particularly the bass. Soundstage ever so slightly wider, and more evenness across the frequency range. The bass also had more impact. I noticed this after hearing the drumming on Julia Stone's album "By The Horns" listening to Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" MOV 180gram reissue, the saxophone didn't run as hot through the GCPH. Now to try the Violectric PPA V600 phono stage


----------



## jc9394

radiolight said:


> Hello all,
> 
> After following this thread, I took the plunge and ordered and received a WA6 SE which came with Shuguang 274B and Sylvania 6ew7s tubes.  I am far from an audiophile so my setup is pretty basic and is as follows:  iPod nano --> Pure i-20 (it has a built in DAC) --> WA6 SE --> Beyerdynamic DT880 600Ohms or Grado SR325is.
> 
> ...




Best combo for WA6/SE, IMHO, Mullard GZ34 metal base with 6FD7.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Best combo for WA6/SE, IMHO, Mullard GZ34 metal base with 6FD7.


----------



## solserenade

Is anyone using 6cy7 power tubes in their WA6SE?
   
  Thanks!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  ...........
   
  GrindingThud - Thanks for the photos. Very nice.


----------



## silversurfer616

I do...as they came with the WA6 I've received 2 days ago.But the Sylvania that were part of the deal sound better to me.
  Next week I should get a SEL Lorenz GZ32 NOS rectifier tube from Germany(early 60's  military) and then I will decide whether I need the Sophia Princess or not!
  Knowing myself.....I do need her!


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> and then I will decide whether I need the Sophia Princess or not!
> Knowing myself.....I do need her!


 
  Ah, Sophia is the High Princess of warmth and smoothness in the World of Woo...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> Ah, Sophia is the High Princess of warmth and smoothness in the World of Woo...


 
   
  To me, I do not think Princess Sophia worth it.


----------



## silversurfer616

Whats your "princess/prince" then?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Whats your "princess/prince" then?


 
   
  Depending on what genre of music and headphone.  USAF 596, EML 5U4G/274B, or Mullard GZ34 metal base.


----------



## silversurfer616

Thanks!Must get that Mullard...me thinks!


----------



## shipsupt

I still keep the Princess around, she's a great performer... but if I could only have one it would be the '56 Amperex Bugleboy metal base GZ34, without a doubt.  
   
  When I put the 6SE up for sale (soon) I need to decide if I'm going to sell it with all these other rectifiers an tubes or sell them separately... either way it will be a sad day as the 6SE has been an outstanding amp for me.  I'm still trying to convince myself that it wouldn't be too over the top on my desk as an office amp... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then I could keep it.


----------



## Silent One

Best combo for my _WooAudio_ _WA 6 Special Edition: _United Electronics USAF-596 > Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates/Oval mica


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Great reply!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:  





> ... it will be a sad day as the 6SE has been an outstanding amp for me.  I'm still trying to convince myself that it wouldn't be too over the top on my desk as an office amp...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't regret the sale of your 6SE in a few years. That's probably why I still have all of my amps. Then again, I am quite the amp hoarder. After my next amp purchase I really need to visit Dr. Phil.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Don't regret the sale of your 6SE in a few years. That's probably why I still have all of my amps. Then again, I am quite the amp hoarder. After my next amp purchase I really need to visit Dr. Phil.


 
  Or the Smithsonian....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Depending on what genre of music and headphone.  USAF 596, EML 5U4G/274B, or Mullard GZ34 metal base.


----------



## radiolight

Thanks Dubstep Girl, JC, and Silent One for your recommendation.
   
  At this time, I am staying away from tubes needing adapters.
   
  I have read about 6fd7.  It is high gain, more bass impact, and may cause the amp to hum  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Currently, other than a few seconds at start up, my WA6 SE is quiet.  Does 6fd7 really induce a hum?  Is that a particular brand 6fd7 that has better affect on sound quality?
   
  I have not looked into Mullard GZ34 so far so I will do that.
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## Silent One

Once I stepped inside the world of 6SN7 tubes..._new frontier!_ Though, everyone has a different reality and I am speaking to mine.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Socket savers make amps look silly


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Socket savers make amps look silly


 
   
  I love the look of the LF339, though.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Depending on what genre of music and headphone.  USAF 596, EML 5U4G/274B, or Mullard GZ34 metal base.


 
   
  +1


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Socket savers make amps look silly


 
  Kind of like wearing spats over your shoes....


----------



## LiuTim

Just bought a WA5 from a great headfier. 
  join in the team!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





liutim said:


> Just bought a WA5 from a great headfier.
> join in the team!


 
  That is some big person headphone amping! Congrats...


----------



## OneTallGuy

I have searched for any reference to a DAC, suitable for the Woo wa6SE, in these threads back to 1/1/11.  I have found little information that was helpful.  Since so many new DAC’s have come out in the last 2 years, I decided not to go further as suggestions might not be relevant to current day options.  
 I listen to Blues, Jazz, Pop, 60's to 80's Rock through Audeze LCD 2.2 headphones.  I have read a great deal on various DAC’s and keep vacillating between suitable possibilities.   I am currently interested in the  Anedio D2 Dac.  The problem is that $1450 is a lot of money for a DAC that has both  balanced outputs and a headphone amp (or preamp) that I would not need with the Woo wa6SE .  The DAC will be hooked up by a toslink digital cable to music sources, not usb.
 Does anyone have any suggestions for premium DAC’s under $1000.  I am not one who will buy the next best thing in a few years.  I am looking for something that I will be pleased with for a long time.
 Thank you for your answers, and please repeat your answers if you said something about this in the past.

 OneTallGuy


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





liutim said:


> Just bought a WA5 from a great headfier.
> join in the team!


 
   
  It's a great day in the Bay...welcome!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Socket savers make amps look silly


 
   
  Admittedly, I've been holding out for aesthetic reasons - don't like way they look. But, I roll too often, so 'savers' are on the horizon.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





onetallguy said:


> I have searched for any reference to a DAC, suitable for the Woo wa6SE, in these threads back to 1/1/11.  I have found little information that was helpful.  Since so many new DAC’s have come out in the last 2 years, I decided not to go further as suggestions might not be relevant to current day options.
> I listen to Blues, Jazz, Pop, 60's to 80's Rock through Audeze LCD 2.2 headphones.  I have read a great deal on various DAC’s and keep vacillating between suitable possibilities.   I am currently interested in the  Anedio D2 Dac.  The problem is that $1450 is a lot of money for a DAC that has both  balanced outputs and a headphone amp (or preamp) that I would not need with the Woo wa6SE .  The DAC will be hooked up by a toslink digital cable to music sources, not usb.
> Does anyone have any suggestions for premium DAC’s under $1000.  I am not one who will buy the next best thing in a few years.  I am looking for something that I will be pleased with for a long time.
> Thank you for your answers, and please repeat your answers if you said something about this in the past.
> ...


 
   
  I really enjoyed my WA6SE when I had it, paired with the Stello DA100. It's an old DAC now, but still excellent nonetheless IMO. The regular version has two optical inputs btw.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Admittedly, I've been holding out for aesthetic reasons - don't like way they look. But, I roll too often, so 'savers' are on the horizon.


 
   
  If you need a seller, pm me


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Admittedly, I've been holding out for aesthetic reasons - don't like way they look. But, I roll too often, so 'savers' are on the horizon.


 
_*Throw aesthetics to the wind and just listen to the music!*_ 
  It will release you from the those visuals, the ever binding chains,
  to be able to appreciate the beauty beneath the skin!
  Of course, I've had a hard time with that as well.
   
  Just a thought.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 I'm with you! Actually, in-session presents no problem - often listen in low-light, no light. It's during the day walking in and out of the room that would make my eyes twitch. Hmmm, maybe an amp cover/dust cover.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





onetallguy said:


> I have read a great deal on various DAC’s and keep vacillating between suitable possibilities.   I am currently interested in the  Anedio D2 Dac.


 
  What are you considering as candidates, which have you disregarded and why?


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





onetallguy said:


> I have searched for any reference to a DAC, suitable for the Woo wa6SE, in these threads back to 1/1/11.  I have found little information that was helpful.  Since so many new DAC’s have come out in the last 2 years, I decided not to go further as suggestions might not be relevant to current day options.
> I listen to Blues, Jazz, Pop, 60's to 80's Rock through Audeze LCD 2.2 headphones.  I have read a great deal on various DAC’s and keep vacillating between suitable possibilities.   I am currently interested in the  Anedio D2 Dac.  The problem is that $1450 is a lot of money for a DAC that has both  balanced outputs and a headphone amp (or preamp) that I would not need with the Woo wa6SE .  The DAC will be hooked up by a toslink digital cable to music sources, not usb.
> Does anyone have any suggestions for premium DAC’s under $1000.  I am not one who will buy the next best thing in a few years.  I am looking for something that I will be pleased with for a long time.
> Thank you for your answers, and please repeat your answers if you said something about this in the past.
> ...


 
  I only own the "lowly" WA6 but I just got a Peachtree DacIt and it clearly is better than the NOVA I had.  Both have 32 bit Sabre Dacs but the DacIt is a more recent iteration.  Just a thought.


----------



## OneTallGuy

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> What are you considering as candidates, which have you disregarded and why?


 
  For various reasons I have eliminated the following:

 Yulong Sabre D18
 Little Dot DAC
 Cambridge Audio Dac Magic
 Schiit Bifrost
 Benchmark Dac 1
 Centrance Dacport
 Woo WDS-1 Dac
 Yulong D100
 Schiit Modi
 Violectric V800
 Benchmark Dac 2

 None of the rejections listed above are written in stone.  I have not had any opportunity to listen to any of the above, with the exception of the Woo WDS-1 at the Denver audio fest this October.  My negative feelings are based solely on extensive readings of users in Head-Fi.

 If anyone has strong positive feelings, from first hand usage, on any of the above I would gladly review my readings and decisions.

 What I really would like is a DAC as good as the Aneido D2 DAC, without the extra cost for electronics I will not use.

 Thank you for any assistance.
 OneTallGuy


----------



## dminches

What is your budget for this?


----------



## silversurfer616

Also have the WA6,this time in combination with a Eastern Electric Mini Max Plus.
  It is better than my Audio GD NFB 17.32 as it is more "musical" to my ears.


----------



## jc9394

silversurfer616 said:


> Also have the WA6,this time in combination with a Eastern Electric Mini Max Plus.
> It is better than my Audio GD NFB 17.32 as it is more "musical" to my ears.




Excellent choice.


----------



## Silent One

I will submit the Wyred4Sound DAC-1. Pre-owned if you can find it (3 year warranty/transferable).


----------



## jc9394

I recommend PWD MKII if budget allowed. The best DAC I ever heard.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> I will submit the Wyred4Sound DAC-1. Pre-owned if you can find it (3 year warranty/transferable).




There were a couple in the for sale forum....


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I recommend PWD MKII if budget allowed. The best DAC I ever heard.


 

 An excellent choice.  I am very pleased with mine.  In the same league, the Berkley Alpha DAC Series 2 is delicious.
   
  The Wyred4Sound is nice.
   
  The Grace M903 is very delightdful, but it has features the OP states he is not interested in.  I find it a great DAC as well is a wonderful tool in my studio.  I also have and like the Benchmark, but the OP has rejected it already.
   
  On the more rational end, I am curious to hear the Micromega USB MyDac, despite the silly name.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got a pair of RCA 6AS7s i ordered from ebay. they where only 10 bucks for a NOS pair! 
   
  they lack the openess and clarity/transparency of the sylvania 7236, but they have a bit more bass, and such a smooth warm tubey sound, like really really tubey sounding. kinda stinks that they don't have anywhere near as much detail as the 7236, but these seem to tame the T1 treble really well


----------



## van41

Thinking of upgrading my DAC to a Wyred for Sound DAC1 aswell.. How does it sound with the WA6SE??

 Wonder if its a huge improvement from the DAC i am using from the Burson HA 160D.


----------



## binot

Just got my WA2 yesterday.. I must say.. WOO!! and the amp isn't even broken in yet.. NOw I understand what the fuss is all about..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





binot said:


> Just got my WA2 yesterday.. I must say.. WOO!! and the amp isn't even broken in yet.. NOw I understand what the fuss is all about..


 
   
  Those of us who came before you want to be entertained. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, where's the pix?


----------



## reeltime

UnEarthly glow of EML 5GUGs and EML 300B mesh plates in my WA5LE.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got a pair of RCA 6AS7s i ordered from ebay. they where only 10 bucks for a NOS pair!
> 
> they lack the openess and clarity/transparency of the sylvania 7236, but they have a bit more bass, and such a smooth warm tubey sound, like really really tubey sounding. kinda stinks that they don't have anywhere near as much detail as the 7236, but these seem to tame the T1 treble really well


 
   
  I find the RCA or Chatham to be the best tubes for the WA2. They pair up better than the 2399/5998 to my ears


----------



## senson

Ugh... this waiting game is killing especially everytime I check this tread.
  Even though it's been only a week since I got my order confirmation mail from Jack, whenever someone says 'I just recieved my Woo.' makes me think "hm.... mine should be next.." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I thought I was good at waitng when I used to order bunch of car parts from Japan...guess not
  Well It'll get here eventually but meanwhile my poor HD800 has to sing directly from my IPad or AV40's headphone out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  something's def missing here XD


----------



## van41

Just a quick question to all Woo Audio and tube amplifier owners

 Could running a tube amplifier without a headphone into it possibly damage the amp and/or the tubes.

 Thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





van41 said:


> Just a quick question to all Woo Audio and tube amplifier owners
> 
> Could running a tube amplifier without a headphone into it possibly damage the amp and/or the tubes.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
   
  i was wondering this too since i've heard it before. its only until now that i always leave a headphone plugged in when its just turned on.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





van41 said:


> Could running a tube amplifier without a headphone into it possibly damage the amp and/or the tubes.


 

 I have heard that it doesn't hurt an OTL amp when left on without a headphone connected.


----------



## grokit

^ Right, that jives with what I know, that transformer-coupled amps need to "have a load" on them. Not sure why though...


----------



## K_19

I've asked the same question the Jack before and his response was that it's best to keep a headphone plugged in when on but for a typical short amount of time there won't be any harm. So while I wouldn't worry about leaving it unplugged for a minute or two, I'd plug in a headphone as soon as possible.


----------



## WindyCityCy

You got a nice start there.  You'll definitely have a hard time sleeping when you get your Woo.  I predict many late night sessions!
  Quote: 





senson said:


> Ugh... this waiting game is killing especially everytime I check this tread.
> Even though it's been only a week since I got my order confirmation mail from Jack, whenever someone says 'I just recieved my Woo.' makes me think "hm.... mine should be next.."
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> UnEarthly glow of EML 5GUGs and EML 300B mesh plates in my WA5LE.


 
   
  I don't get much glow at all from these 300B's, but the sound is out of this world in my WA5LE.
   

   
   
  ss


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WE 300B!!!!!!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I don't get much glow at all from these 300B's, but the sound is out of this world in my WA5LE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
_*Wow! Congratulations!*_
   
  Also a strange dichotomy with the 300bs hovering above the Blu-Rays. The contrast of very old technology and very new technology.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





onetallguy said:


> For various reasons I have eliminated the following:
> 
> I have not had any opportunity to listen to any of the above, with the exception of the Woo WDS-1 at the Denver audio fest this October.  My negative feelings are based solely on extensive readings of users in Head-Fi.


 
  Tossed out the Woo WDS-1?  Wow, that's proof that Head-Fi is most definintely a subjective hobby....I cannot get enough of that DAC.  Both musically and aesthetically, it's a marvel, IMO, especially when teamed up with their amps.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> Tossed out the Woo WDS-1?  Wow, that's proof that Head-Fi is most definintely a subjective hobby....I cannot get enough of that DAC.  Both musically and aesthetically, it's a marvel, IMO, especially when teamed up with their amps.


 
   
  Aesthetically, yes.  Musically, no.  Depends on what other DAC you are comparing to.  It is no match to few I own and owned.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Aesthetically, yes.  Musically, no.  Depends on what other DAC you are comparing to.  It is no match to few I own and owned.


 
   
  How yah been? Keeping warm over there in MA? Happy 9th day of the New Year!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How yah been? Keeping warm over there in MA? Happy 9th day of the New Year!


 

 Great, how's SF?  We are abnormally warm the next week or so.  Need to plan another trip to SF to have more saki...


----------



## Rawrbington

I haven't been able to sleep.  I haven't been able to eat.
  The writing is on the wall.
  I must part ways with my WA2.
  I get the shakes just thinking about it.
   
  I've got some spare tubes that I'll have to move as well.
   
  All this being done in the hopes that I can swoop up a 6SE to use with my LCD2's.
  The WA2 doesn't get the job done well enough, and is bested by my vintage receivers.
   
  Everybody keeps telling me im going to regret it.
  and i think they are right as right can be.
  But I'll never be able to jump on a WA6SE when one pops up if I don't liquidate the 2.
   
  So
  this is goodbye


----------



## GrindingThud

.....don't look on eBay right now... 


rawrbington said:


> I haven't been able to sleep.  I haven't been able to eat.
> The writing is on the wall.
> I must part ways with my WA2.
> I get the shakes just thinking about it.
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

Ohhh man!
  why
  Why
  WHYYYYYYYY


----------



## binot

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Those of us who came before you want to be entertained.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hmm I've been trying for the past 2 days to get the pictures up but I cant seem to get the pictures attached..Always have a message saying.. "There was a problem submitting this to the server. Please try again." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anybody encountering this ??


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I haven't been able to sleep.  I haven't been able to eat.
> The writing is on the wall.
> I must part ways with my WA2.
> I get the shakes just thinking about it.
> ...


 
   
   
  awww


----------



## senson

Quote: 





windycitycy said:


> You got a nice start there.  You'll definitely have a hard time sleeping when you get your Woo.  I predict many late night sessions!


 
  Thank you I'll probably have hard time sleeping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I haven't been able to sleep.  I haven't been able to eat.
> The writing is on the wall.
> I must part ways with my WA2.
> I get the shakes just thinking about it.
> ...


 
  I had WA2+T1 Combo I had to sell because of personal issue
  Ordered WA6SE and LCD2 from Jack for same reason you have now.
  and..... There's WA22 on ebay  Oh well....At least I just got shipping confirmation today. I know I'll be happy with WA6SE for a while.


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> I haven't been able to sleep.  I haven't been able to eat.
> The writing is on the wall.
> I must part ways with my WA2.
> ...
> ...




All I can say is...make sure you love your LCDs before kicking the woo2 out the door. I wanted to, tried to, pretended to, and ultimately failed to come to any kind of meaningful relationship with mine. Said good-bye and have never looked back with any hint of regret. 

More like relief.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> _*Wow! Congratulations!*_
> 
> Also a strange dichotomy with the 300bs hovering above the Blu-Rays. The contrast of very old technology and very new technology.


 
   
  I don't just limit myself to music I also use my Headphone rig for movies. That's why I have a Smyth Realiser with PRIR's from AIX sound studio for any MC audio, like 5.1/7.1 movies. 
   
  I got these WE 300B's NOS and they are a match set build date on both (1956 year)56/26(26th week of the year). Nos being measured at 58 these tubes are measured at 79(very strong). I got them from these guys. 
   
   
  . 
   
   
  ss


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Hello,
   
  I will soon be an owner of a WA6SE (it's being built, can't wait!).  This will be my first tube amp so I would appreciate for any advice for things to do (or not to do).
   
  Just curious, has anyone used tube coolers?  I saw some from Parts Connexion, are they worth a try?
   
  Thanks


----------



## van41

why not have both?

 if I had spare cash and enough room on my desk, i certainly would!

 anyways the LCD2 and the WA6SE with Sophia matches so well together, so you would have no regret once you have it.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I will soon be an owner of a WA6SE (it's being built, can't wait!).  This will be my first tube amp so I would appreciate for any advice for things to do (or not to do).
> 
> ...


 
  My personal opinion-- there are a lot of ways to improve the sound before worrying about tube coolers.  Tubes are designed to run at an operating temperature.  Alter that, and you might mess up the sound.  
   
  Rather than spending money on tube coolers, I'd invest in some different tubes instead of trying to control the heat.  The WA6 and WA6SE respond well to the GZ series rectifier tube.  There are a ton of tube rolling suggestions for that amp right here at Head-Fi!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I will soon be an owner of a WA6SE (it's being built, can't wait!).  This will be my first tube amp so I would appreciate for any advice for things to do (or not to do).
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats! The _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ (_ahem...we got ours in black_) was my very first vacuum tube amp as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA6-SE was my first tube as well!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> My personal opinion-- there are a lot of ways to improve the sound before worrying about tube coolers.  Tubes are designed to run at an operating temperature.  Alter that, and you might mess up the sound.
> 
> Rather than spending money on tube coolers, I'd invest in some different tubes instead of trying to control the heat.  The WA6 and WA6SE respond well to the GZ series rectifier tube.  There are a ton of tube rolling suggestions for that amp right here at Head-Fi!


 
   
  Great insights!  I haven't thought the coolers could adversely affect the operation temperature, and thus the SQ.  I was thinking of tube longevity.
   
  I included the Sofia 274B in the order along with the stock rectifier.  I'll add the GZ to my list.  Let's start the tube rolling!
   
  Mine will be in black!  Someone did prove that black sounds better than silver, yah? lol


----------



## senson

My WA6SE and LCD2 just got here along with 6FD7 and Sophia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   
  Currently WA6SE has noticable back ground noise after 10 o'clock of volume control with all tubes. I hope it is part of burn in process...
  Well so far here's another happy Woo Listener


----------



## binot

Nice!!!.. How do you find it with the HD800..? I might be considering that as my next phone for my WA2


----------



## senson

I really like HD800 with 6FD7 and Sophia it is not harsh and has enough bass for me.
  I think it would be much smoother with WA2.


----------



## binot

Quote: 





senson said:


> I really like HD800 with 6FD7 and Sophia it is not harsh and has enough bass for me.
> I think it would be much smoother with WA2.


 
  Sorry Im a tube newbie..having just bought the WA2 myself... The 6FD7 are the power tubes? What kind of tubes are the Sophia's... ?
   
  I'll be considering tube rolling soon... given how good I think the stock setup is.. I wonder if the difference will be huge if the stock tubes are changed out..


----------



## Rawrbington

pulled the trigger on a WA6SE today.  Shipping shows it arriving Saturday. 
  It looks like i might have the weekend with both my WA2 and 6SE.


----------



## senson

Quote: 





binot said:


> Sorry Im a tube newbie..having just bought the WA2 myself... The 6FD7 are the power tubes? What kind of tubes are the Sophia's... ?
> 
> I'll be considering tube rolling soon... given how good I think the stock setup is.. I wonder if the difference will be huge if the stock tubes are changed out..


 
  You need different tubes since you have WA2. WA2 and WA6SE use different Tubes.
  but I would suggest enjoy the tube it comes with in the beginning before you start spending hundreds of dollars. Tube rolling could be very expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  What I remember though I liked TS 5998, 7236 and GEC 6AS7G as power tubes when I had WA2.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah WA2 uses different tubes.
  To me the Power tubes, which senson pretty well covered, always made the biggest difference in sound.
   
  btw
  i might know somebody who might possibly be selling a couple pairs of tubes that might happen to be TS 5998s
  although 1 pair might already be spoken for


----------



## jc9394

rawrbington said:


> I haven't been able to sleep.  I haven't been able to eat.
> The writing is on the wall.
> I must part ways with my WA2.
> I get the shakes just thinking about it.
> ...




It is very hard to beat them, especially if you pair HD800 with a Marantz.


----------



## jc9394

senson said:


> My WA6SE and LCD2 just got here along with 6FD7 and Sophia :veryevil:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Congrats, the WA6SE is the best bang for the bucks. The hiss should be gone once the tubes are burn in.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Congrats, the WA6SE is the best bang for the bucks. The hiss should be gone once the tubes are burn in.


 
   
       How long is one to expect the burn in process?


----------



## senson

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> How long is one to expect the burn in process?


 
  It's almost gone already


----------



## jc9394

sko0bydoo said:


> How long is one to expect the burn in process?




For WA6/SE driver tubes, usually around 50 hours.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

My WA22 arrived today.  Wow, this thing is HUGE-it makes a statement just sitting silent!  My transport and DAC are at Woo for repair, so I am "making do" with my Oppo as a source/preamp.  Lot's of burn-in time to come, but the WA22 in balanced mode is very nice even at this early stage.  More pronounced low end with my HD800's.  Listening to Steve Earle's "I Feel Alright" CD is amazing.  There seems to be much more presence and impact to the music.  It seems to be not quite as warm as my WA6-SE...I am running Woo's suggested tube upgrades.  I have not tried the stock tubes yet...
   
  Another great product from Woo....Jack and company are really fantastic artisans....


----------



## jc9394

WA22 and HD800 are heavenly match. If you get a chance, get the GEC 6AS7G, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and Mullard GZ34 metal base. It is my preferred tube combo.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WA22 and HD800 are heavenly match. If you get a chance, get the GEC 6AS7G, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and Mullard GZ34 metal base. It is my preferred tube combo.


 
  Oh thanks.....several more hundred dollar bills on this hobby  
   
  Thanks for the advice.  Those Mullard GZ34's are like trying to find the holy grail !
   
  thanks
   
  Jeff


----------



## Dubstep Girl

senson said:


> My WA6SE and LCD2 just got here along with 6FD7 and Sophia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   
   
  the WA6-SE does have noise, but its only when no musics playing and isn't noticeable unless you turned the amp really loud, much more than needed for most headphones (like near 12 clock or higher). part of it just has to do with the WA6-SE having much more gain than the WA2  
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> pulled the trigger on a WA6SE today.  Shipping shows it arriving Saturday.
> It looks like i might have the weekend with both my WA2 and 6SE.


 
   
  awesome! 
   
  are you getting any tube upgrades with the WA6-SE?


----------



## Pudu

jc9394 said:


> rawrbington said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...




I know, I hate this :bigsmile_face: .

I kind of want to get an amp specifically for the W3ks & D7ks, but my big fear is that I could drop a grand and not improve on my old Pioneer.

Congrats on the WA6SE Rawr & senson ! I've always wanted to give that one a whirl myself.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is very hard to beat them, especially if you pair HD800 with a Marantz.


 
   
  I'll let you guys in both threads(this one and the vintage) know how the 2 compare with the LCD2's
  Can't wait to test it out.


----------



## binot

Wow.. these are confusing.. when buying replacement tubes.. is there a guide to which of these go into which socket..
   
  On my WA2 there are numbers(tube model numbers?) stamped on the chassis near the tube sockets.. but it seems like they don't match to any of those numbers mentioned above...How do we know which recommended tubes go to which socket for my WA2
   
  It will be great if someone can guide me on what goes where..
   
  1) 6080 socket--> Recommended tubes?
  2) 6922 socket--> Recommended tubes?
  3) EZ80 socket--> Recommended tubes?
   
  I apologise if this is very basic.Im a complete noob for rolling tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I tried the search function.. have some results.. but I just wanted to make sure I dont get the wrong tubes or plug something in thats not suppose to be there.


----------



## senson

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the WA6-SE does have noise, but its only when no musics playing and isn't noticeable unless you turned the amp really loud, much more than needed for most headphones (like near 12 clock or higher). part of it just has to do with the WA6-SE having much more gain than the WA2


 
  The noise is gone now at least until 3 o'clock 
   
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> I know, I hate this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you
  I just can't stop listening


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





binot said:


> On my WA2 there are numbers(tube model numbers?) stamped on the chassis near the tube sockets.. but it seems like they don't match to any of those numbers mentioned above...How do we know which recommended tubes go to which socket for my WA2
> 
> It will be great if someone can guide me on what goes where..
> 
> ...


 
   
  the woo audio website FAQ theres a tube compatibility chart that gives you some options
   
  http://www.wooaudio.com/faq/#23
   
  for the 6080 , the tung sol 5998 or sylvania 7236 are good tubes as well as the RCA 6AS7. these are all power tubes
  for the other tubes, theres plenty of options. the 6922's are driver tubes and the EZ80s are the rectifier tubes.
   
  you should look at this thread , gives you good options.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/574969/good-tube-combinations-for-the-woo-audio-2
   
  also a good thread, lots of talk here on various tubes including the GEC 6AS7G and a few others
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/30
   
  and finally, the original WA2 thread which if you go thru the posts there, should provide some good info as well
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm always pretty amazed to see people buying tube amps without knowing anything about tubes or before having done any research whatsoever on tubes (how they're made, how it works, equivalents, do's and dont's, etc)
   
  Maybe that's just me


----------



## Pudu

You can be completely ignorant of how they work and still derive pleasure from them ... as with many things.

I got married.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





pudu said:


> You can be completely ignorant of how they work and still derive pleasure from them ... as with many things.
> 
> I got married.


 
   
  I'm sure you tested and studied some other examples before you found the one you married


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> pulled the trigger on a WA6SE today.  Shipping shows it arriving Saturday.
> It looks like i might have the weekend with both my WA2 and 6SE.


 
  Rawrbington..._Woo-tastic!_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm always pretty amazed to see people buying tube amps without knowing anything about tubes or before having done any research whatsoever on tubes (how they're made, how it works, equivalents, do's and dont's, etc)
> 
> Maybe that's just me


 
   I embarked on this same adventure...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what a ride! And enjoyed it!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I know what you're saying about the old Pioneer. My vintage Pioneer sounds great. Wait 'til it gets
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




re-capped! My Woo sounded really good but then, ask me how much the vintage iron cost to bring home? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Which Pioneer model do you have?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





senson said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  FYI - While everyone has a differently reality, the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition _does not inherently have noise. I'm a witness. For a solid year - up to 15 months, if I recall - my Woo was silent. How silent? Dead silent - with Volume control know turned ALL the way up (max) with no music playing. The kind of background many audiophiles long to achieve. I eventually got noise, though. A hiss-hum-static combo kind of thing that revealed itself near 12 o'clock with no music playing. But, I only enjoyed music between 8-8:30. And 9-9:30 when I was feelin' it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This event (noise) only became present when I re-arranged the listening room. The amp in the new spot was just horrible. And despite putting everything back in its exact place, half of the noise remained. Still, never a problem at higher than normal listening levels, which means I would not have heard it even when cranked at 10 or 11 o'clock. Then reduced the noise further by moving the router and removing some metal furniture out of the listening room.


----------



## binot

ultrainferno said:


> I'm always pretty amazed to see people buying tube amps without knowing anything about tubes or before having done any research whatsoever on tubes (how they're made, how it works, equivalents, do's and dont's, etc)
> 
> Maybe that's just me




Ya.. All these people, wonder what they were thinking ..:rolleyes:

Hey!! Are you talking about me?!! ... Lol 

Btw, thanks Dubstep Girl for the great links... Cheers


----------



## Silent One

Audio as a hobby should be filled with joy and adventure.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Audio as a hobby should be filled with joy and adventure.


 
   
  Like using the wrong tubes in your amp you just paid over $1K for. I wish I had been that adventurous


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





binot said:


> On my WA2 there are numbers(tube model numbers?) stamped on the chassis near the tube sockets
> 
> I apologise if this is very basic.Im a complete noob for rolling tubes...
> 
> ...


 
  This is a very good place to start. From Woo audio....https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## binot

Thanks!!! Great link


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> I know what you're saying about the old Pioneer. My vintage Pioneer sounds great. Wait 'til it gets:evil: re-capped! My Woo sounded really good but then, ask me how much the vintage iron cost to bring home?
> 
> Which Pioneer model do you have?




980. Love it. It provides a wonderful counterpoint to the woo2. 



One thing about tube amps (well at least mine) is they seem incredibly sensitive to ambient interference and ground loop noise. I had my wireless router sitting too close to mine and got much noise until I moved the router a couple of metres away. Also had noise from the outlets in my previous house.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





pudu said:


> 980. Love it. It provides a wonderful counterpoint to the woo2.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing about tube amps (well at least mine) is they seem incredibly sensitive to ambient interference and ground loop noise. I had my wireless router sitting too close to mine and got much noise until I moved the router a couple of metres away. Also had noise from the outlets in my previous house.


 
  Same here.  I had to move my cell phone into another room(or turn it off), plus I had to begin using a power conditioner due to intermittent audible noise from my outlets....
   
  Once that was done, I find that neither of my Woo amps have any audible noise whatsover, even when the volume knob is pegged(with all sources turned off, of course!)
   
  I'm actually shocked I don't experience more EMI than I do considering all of the PC's. laser printers, wireless routers/phones, monitors, etc I have in the same home office area as my head-fi gear.......
   
  Guess we should just all convert over to SS amps so we won't have these problems as often 
   
  Jeff


----------



## Hibuckhobby

I'm just still playing "catch-up" as I wade through past posts.  Enjoy my WA6 and WA2
  immensely!  Still watching for a good deal on some better power tubes for the 2.  I have
  Sylvania and GE 6080's...but all this talk about 5998's has me scouring that auction site.
   
  Still burning in my HD700's and wonder if I might end up moving to the HD800?  The D7000's 
  are ever so slightly bass heavy, but there's something about their overall tonality that keeps
  bringing me back.  Enjoying the read (up to page 1300) and the "woo group".  Keep up the good
  work folks!
  Hibuck....


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm always pretty amazed to see people buying tube amps without knowing anything about tubes or before having done any research whatsoever on tubes (how they're made, how it works, equivalents, do's and dont's, etc)
> 
> Maybe that's just me


 
   
  I'm the same way with amps, tubes, and most everything else (except maybe restaurants).
   
  I also read reviews to death. So much so that I usually end up not buying anything. I usually pull the trigger after someone else has or has had the opportunity to hear one themselves.  As with the DT770 AE 32Ω 88.


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> FYI - While everyone has a differently reality, the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ does not inherently have noise. I'm a witness. For a solid year - up to 15 months, if I recall - my Woo was silent. How silent? Dead silent - with Volume control know turned ALL the way up (max) with no music playing.




I agree. I've always been able to have a dead quiet background with my 6SE. Noise is not created by the amp, it's just a symptom being amplified.


----------



## shipsupt

hibuckhobby said:


> Still burning in my HD700's and wonder if I might end up moving to the HD800?  The D7000's
> are ever so slightly bass heavy, but there's something about their overall tonality that keeps
> bringing me back.  Enjoying the read (up to page 1300) and the "woo group".  Keep up the good
> work folks!
> Hibuck....




Burn in isn't going to change those 700's much. In this case I would endorse the upgrade to the 800, well worth the price of admission, and big returns.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Burn in isn't going to change those 700's much. In this case I would endorse the upgrade to the 800, well worth the price of admission, and big returns.


 
   
  X2, I love the HD800 so much that I have to sell the LCD-2 since it is not getting any head time.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, I love the HD800 so much that I have to sell the LCD-2 since it is not getting any head time.


 
   
  I prefer the 700 over the 800 but I also still need to sell my LCD-2


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





pudu said:


> You can be completely ignorant of how they work and still derive pleasure from them ... as with many things.
> 
> I got married.


 
   
  ROFL!!  Quote "She sure looks good!"


----------



## jc9394

Holy crap, this GEC 6AS7G used to go for $300+, it may be the location of the seller and no feedback.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah
  and payment method
  sketchville


----------



## Clayton SF

Warming up the WA22 in the sun. I am going to listen to the DT770 Pro LE 32 ohms some time this afternoon.
   
  Thank you, @Ultrainferno.
   
  Before:

   
  and After (and much happier, too!)


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thats is a gorgeous picture C. Beatiful amp as well!


----------



## john57

Thats a good sunlite picture!


----------



## Silent One

Great shot, Clayton! Reminiscent of a calm Sunday morning before brunch. Let the Mimosa flow!


----------



## Rawrbington

incredible pics Clayton
   
  i was hoping to be listening to my WA6SE today.
  But somehow the post office attempted to deliver it to the wrong house.
  How that happens i don't really know.
  so the shipping went from "out for delivery"
  to "notice left"
  but i have no notice and have been literally sitting next to the door ALL FREAKING DAY
  and then
  THE BRONCOS LOST
   
  this day started with so much promise.
  now i just want to vomit
   
  =(


----------



## preproman

So I'm looking into getting my first tube amp..
   
  What Woo amp works better with Grados:  WA2 or WA22?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thats is a gorgeous picture C. Beatiful amp as well!


 
   
  Thanks. Your LF339 is a beaut, too!
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Thats a good sunlite picture!


 
   
  Thanks. The sunlite had shone well upon the WA22 today.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great shot, Clayton! Reminiscent of a calm Sunday morning before brunch. Let the Mimosa flow!


 
   
  Mimosas are the best. I was having a glass of wine at the time.
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> incredible pics Clayton
> 
> this day started with so much promise.
> now i just want to vomit
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, as well.
  The days and nights will get better after your amp arrives. Then you'll forget about ever wanting to vomit.


----------



## Pudu

clayton sf said:


> Warming up the WA22 in the sun. I am going to listen to the DT770 Pro LE 32 ohms some time this afternoon.
> ...




Dude, you know they're endothermic - like the dinosaurs. If you feed them, they produce their own heat ... and sound better too.

Awesome pics!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





preproman said:


> So I'm looking into getting my first tube amp..
> 
> What Woo amp works better with Grados:  WA2 or WA22?


 
  WA22. The WA2 is an OTL amp and not ideal for low impedance headphones. Don't get me wrong, the WA2 does play Grado's very well, just not as well as the WA22 (which is superior amp with a variety of headphones). Owned both, but I do miss the WA22 at times.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


clayton sf said:


> Warming up the WA22 in the sun. I am going to listen to the DT770 Pro LE 32 ohms some time this afternoon.


 
  Very nicely captured, not the just the sun directly but the warm bounced light as well, the silver WA22 is great for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It's been a while since I put up some non-useful pics, so: where there is light, there is darkness:

   
  Can you ever have enough tube glow?
   

   
  WA22 with some Chathams, Sylvanias & a Zaerix (Mullard)


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





preproman said:


> So I'm looking into getting my first tube amp..
> 
> What Woo amp works better with Grados:  WA2 or WA22?


 
   
  I wouldn't rule out the 6SE either.  One of the things I very much like about it is it's ability to do well with a wider range of headphones, Grado included.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> WA22. The WA2 is an OTL amp and not ideal for low impedance headphones. Don't get me wrong, the WA2 does play Grado's very well, just not as well as the WA22 (which is superior amp with a variety of headphones). Owned both, but I do miss the WA22 at times.


 
   
  some WA2 might not work for grados and other low impedance. mine shows clipping on low impedance headphones, some members have had this issue too, most have not. i still dont know if some of the amps have had issues, or if the WA2 was ever revised
   
   
  also to note, it seems the less powerful the tube, the better a match the amp is with lower impedance headphones. 
  for me, if i plug in the stock GE 6AS7 instead of the more powerful 7236 (or 5998 as i once did when i used to have them), i can get the lower impedance up to a higher volume before they start sounding bad, even more so with the RCA 6AS7G (with these, the LCD-2 is powered ok, though can't get too loud, and the denons can get a little louder as well), its still far from optimal though.
   
   
   
  of course, you can avoid this issue altogether by going with the WA22 or WA6-SE


----------



## GrindingThud

These gold pin Allied 6BZ7 made in Japan were a pleasant surprise.....anyone know the skinny on these?


----------



## Rawrbington

Well today was rough.
  2 flat tires.
  Had to fill em up and then bail early on work to go get em fixed since i don't have 2 spares.
   
  But
  The good news is i got to go pick up my WA6SE afterwards!
  So not all bad.
  Some surprises there though.
  first off the tube sockets for the driver? tubes is slanted backwards.  Not sure how this happens coming from a WA2.  Im guess the internal construction is just different.
  And then a bit of confusion with the sophia.  The center post was broken off, but dubstepgirl helped me out with that.  Thank you!.
   
  Now for the good news.
  It is maxed.  Or somewhere close to maxed.
  Stepped pot, teflon sockets, and i peaked inside, a very nice helping of Rubycon Black Gates.


----------



## binot

Finally!! My humble setup...


----------



## Clayton SF

^ wow, wow, wow, wow. This is visually very pleasing. I can only imagine what it sounds like.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Looking sharp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





binot said:


> Finally!! My humble setup...


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Very nice Binot....you guys are slowly drawing me towards the "owners of black woo"
  group.  Still...do love my WA6 and WA2...both silver.
  HIbuck...


----------



## musicman59

Remember what some say... "When you go black......"


----------



## Rawrbington

Its been lab proven that the silver woo's measure better


----------



## shipsupt

It's true... I have two silver Woo's for a reason!!  The measurements were in Ster-e-o-file a while back... amazing results.  
   
  Had my first "issue" with a Woo amp this week.  I blew a fuse in my GES.  Waiting on a replacement, and of course hoping it's not a symptom of anything significant.  I had some other issues with another electrostatic amp and I find that in my new home in the UK I might be subject to more voltage swings than I am used to.  I measured the line yesterday, early, and it was just over 230V.  Tonight I measured it late and it was dancing all over between 238 and 240 volts!  Very interesting... and has me thinking both amp issues are voltage related.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

I have always preferred Silver components.  I just bought an Anthem AVM 50v pre/pro, and was crestfallen to learn they don't make them in silver anymore....black only.....what, is Henry Ford running all the audio companies these days  ?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm always pretty amazed to see people buying tube amps without knowing anything about tubes or before having done any research whatsoever on tubes (how they're made, how it works, equivalents, do's and dont's, etc)
> 
> Maybe that's just me


 
   
  So some of us actually research these things first? I just started cheap, and worked my way up to my Woo. Rolled a few tubes along the way but that still didn't prepare me...
   
  It has been a happy voyage of discovery, I wouldn't have it any other way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote:  





> of course, you can avoid this issue altogether by going with the WA22 or WA6-SE


 
   
  Wouldn't a regular WA6 also work well with Grados? They're not very demanding so it might give you more attenuation than the SE.
   
   
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> It's true... I have two silver Woo's for a reason!!  The measurements were in Ster-e-o-file a while back... amazing results.
> 
> Had my first "issue" with a Woo amp this week.  I blew a fuse in my GES.  Waiting on a replacement, and of course hoping it's not a symptom of anything significant.  I had some other issues with another electrostatic amp and I find that in my new home in the UK I might be subject to more voltage swings than I am used to.  I measured the line yesterday, early, and it was just over 230V.  Tonight I measured it late and it was dancing all over between 238 and 240 volts!  Very interesting... and has me thinking both amp issues are voltage related.


 
   
  Opportunity knocks... now is your chance to audition an _audiophile-quality_ fuse, if you're so inclined.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





grokit said:


> So some of us actually research these things first? I just started cheap, and worked my way up to my Woo. Rolled a few tubes along the way but that still didn't prepare me...
> 
> It has been a happy voyage of discovery, I wouldn't have it any other way


 
  i've gone into my purchases a little blind to the tubes as well.
  Except with my WA2 i sort of had an idea because i moved to it from a wa3.
   
  i like not knowing.  Get the amp, listen to it, love it, then a few weeks or months later look at a new adventure by rolling.
   
   
  And you really can tell, if you look very hard and very closely at the silver one, that it does indeed measure and sound better.


----------



## dminches

I bought my first tubed component because Skylab told me to. I had no clue what tubes were, what they did, that there were many different kinds, etc. It was only after getting in the game that I started to learn. I would guess this is the norm as opposed to the exception. 

Isn't this true of most hobbies and obsessions?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I bought my first tubed component because Skylab told me to. I had no clue what tubes were, what they did, that there were many different kinds, etc. It was only after getting in the game that I started to learn. I would guess this is the norm as opposed to the exception.
> 
> Isn't this true of most hobbies and obsessions?


 
   
  Yes!
   
  Look at your nice tube collection now.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Only 150 pages left to go (pant, gasp) and then I'll have read the entire 
  thread.   It's going to seem weird not reading over 100 posts per day.
  Now I'll just be listening instead of "multi-tasking". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Hibuck...


----------



## Rawrbington

My WA2 is gone.




   
  I gave it one last run with my HD650's before i boxed her up.
  I really think i prefer the 2 over the 6SE with the HD650.
  I hope the new owner loves it as much as I did.


----------



## Clayton SF

Not about the Woo but interesting anyway so I thought I'd share this with y'all--
The other McIntosh


----------



## dminches

Good story. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## rosgr63

X2


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> My WA2 is gone.
> 
> 
> ...




Ah dude. My condolences. I hope those Audeze cans make up for it.

I have been giving mine some more listening love lately after ignoring it in favour of the Pioneer for a while. I'm reminded of why I fell in love with this amp in the first place.


----------



## Rawrbington

Indeed
  Such a great sounding amp
   
   
  A request for anyone who knows
   
  I remember a while back seeing some pictures from inside the Woo business showing them making some of the stuff and of their workspaces and partially completed projects.
  I can't for the life of me find it again.
  Did i dream it up or have these pictures been posted somewhere?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> A request for anyone who knows
> 
> I remember a while back seeing some pictures from inside the Woo business showing them making some of the stuff and of their workspaces and partially completed projects.
> I can't for the life of me find it again.
> Did i dream it up or have these pictures been posted somewhere?


 
  Is this it?
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wooaudio/5.html


----------



## Rawrbington

YES!
  Thank you


----------



## senson

I just got RCA 6DR7..and I think I found a set of tube I want  more lush dynamic and improved PRaT! I thought WA6SE is thinner and lack of body compare to WA2 I had, now it is very close 
  highly recommend it to all WA6SE owners 
  I like it more than Sylvania 6EW7 and Westinghouse 6FD7 by big margin. it's fairy cheap too(like $15 ish)
  Now I guess I have to save up for some GZ34s


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





senson said:


> I just got RCA 6DR7..and I think I found a set of tube I want  more lush dynamic and improved PRaT! I thought WA6SE is thinner and lack of body compare to WA2 I had, now it is very close
> highly recommend it to all WA6SE owners
> I like it more than Sylvania 6EW7 and Westinghouse 6FD7 by big margin. it's fairy cheap too(like $15 ish)
> Now I guess I have to save up for some GZ34s


 
   
  hey! thats my favorite tube with the LCD-2 as well!
   
  i didn't find it as good of a match with the T1 or HD 800 though, but i haven't listened to it much. it also has alot more gain than the other tubes.


----------



## senson

It's still better than my other tubes with HD800 but If there's better tubes for HD800 I'm all in


----------



## Dubstep Girl

for the hd 800, nope, can't really say, i use the WA2 for the hd 800 mostly. 
   
  u already tried the 6ew7 and 6fd7, theres not much else besides the 6gl7 upgrades that cost more or using 6sn7 (with adaptor that has a resistor in it or something like that).


----------



## radiolight

Quote: 





senson said:


> I just got RCA 6DR7..and I think I found a set of tube I want  more lush dynamic and improved PRaT! I thought WA6SE is thinner and lack of body compare to WA2 I had, now it is very close
> highly recommend it to all WA6SE owners
> I like it more than Sylvania 6EW7 and Westinghouse 6FD7 by big margin. it's fairy cheap too(like $15 ish)
> Now I guess I have to save up for some GZ34s


 
   
  I have Sylvania 6EW7 and 6FD7, and Philco 6DE7.  
   
  6FD7 had the bass that I was looking for.  Can you please compare 6DR7 with 6FD7?  
   
  Also, does anyone have Hifiman HE-500 running with WA6SE and can provide his/her experience?  I've started researching the HE-500 for some reason which usually is a precursor to buying


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





> I just got RCA 6DR7..and I think I found a set of tube I want  more lush dynamic and improved PRaT! I thought WA6SE is thinner and lack of body compare to WA2 I had, now it is very close
> highly recommend it to all WA6SE owners
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the tip! I just ordered a pair.


----------



## senson

Quote: 





radiolight said:


> I have Sylvania 6EW7 and 6FD7, and Philco 6DE7.
> 
> 6FD7 had the bass that I was looking for.  Can you please compare 6DR7 with 6FD7?
> 
> Also, does anyone have Hifiman HE-500 running with WA6SE and can provide his/her experience?  I've started researching the HE-500 for some reason which usually is a precursor to buying


 
  To me, 6FD7 sound more lush but flat. 6DR7 little less forward but have more rhythm, lively sounds
  I never had HE-500 so I wouldn't know


----------



## shipsupt

Not sure if it's better, but my last favorite combination with the HD-800 and the 6SE was the 1956 NOS Metal Base Amperex Bugle Boy 5AR4/GZ34 and the Rayetheon 6EW7 made in Japan fat bottles.
   
  I was really digging that combo...
   
   
  Quote: 





senson said:


> It's still better than my other tubes with HD800 but If there's better tubes for HD800 I'm all in


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i find the raytheon 6ew7 to be my favorite tube as well. i'll have to buy an extra pair for the future. 
   
  compared to sylvania and westinghouse 6ew7, it seems to be better as well. just a little more open and detailed. its noticeable enough to the point that i can see why people would find the other 6ew7s more dull and uninvolving.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Just got a pair of RCA 6SA7-G vintage 1939. While they are very 
smooth, they are quite extended at both ends and are dead silent.
the WA2 seems to like them a lot.
Hibuck...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Remember what some say... "When you go black......"


----------



## longbowbbs

OK SO, here is one for you from my Album collection.....


----------



## Rawrbington

Nudes of the 6SE.
  Theres some upgrades in there.
  Really don't know what exactly
  seller said teflon sockets and stepped attenuator and wasn't sure on the rest.
  But theres a handful of blackgates that i don't think are stock.
  Any experts know what all has been upgraded?
  or are the Rubycon BG's stock?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> OK SO, here is one for you from my Album collection.....


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

So thanks to the recent group buy (my first) I joined the 596 club:
   

   
  And it'd be interesting to see if anybody listening to the above combo could still refer to the LCD-3 as being too "laidback" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I certainly have to dial it down for the same sound level on my favourite tracks. As a matter of fact, apart from rock and some classical, I find it a bit too punchy for jazz or vocals. The Sylvania & Tung-Sol triangle-types are fine of course, but something interesting has happened: out of curiosity I dug out my Sophia 6SN7s which I could never really warm up too, and for some reason, for the first time, I -really- like them in this setup!
   
  I also decided to get the spare tube purchase out of the way when I bough the adapter, and unexpectedly ended up with two very different 596s. I think the one of the group buy, in the bigger box, may be the older one? Some comparisons: 2 getters instead of one, copper bracket at the top instead of steel (?), and different markings due to the 2nd getter.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> So thanks to the recent group buy (my first) I joined the 596 club:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


 
  Very nice! Looks like I got one of the large box ones. I have not put it in yet as I got it as a backup for the current 596 I am using now....They do have punch!


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

I ran them each for an evening of music enjoyment, before settling for one. I'd rather not find out that the spare I got was somehow defective when I finally need it...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Love this picture! Nice setup. 




			
				TheGrumpyOldMan said:
			
		

> .So thanks to the recent group buy (my first) I joined the 596 club:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

TheGrumpyOldMan..._and The Mighty 596! _Sounds like the title of a novel.


----------



## grokit

Very nice GOM, welcome to the WA22/596/LCD club!


----------



## senson

So.. I missed all of these 596 deal I think the group buy was filled right after I ordered WA6SE 
  Does anyone has a spare to share?


----------



## jc9394

Spare? Yes. Share? What was that? I have check if I have two spare or not first.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Getting my drink up to room temperature


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Getting my drink up to room temperature


 
   
  That bottle is smaller than your 6AS7 tube. Did you grab that off of an airline beverage cart?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That bottle is smaller than your 6AS7 tube. Did you grab that off of an airline beverage cart?


 
   
  Don't tell KLM 
  No seriously, my RCA's are THAT big


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Don't tell KLM
> No seriously, my RCA's are THAT big


 
   
  After turning on your WA2 on a KLM flight to warm up the cabin, they then had to de-ice the wings. That bottle and amp should warm you up this winter.


----------



## apossibleworld

This is my first post at this forum.  I first read up here maybe 8 years ago, then forgot all about it, and have started thinking about these things again lately.
   
  Another first -- I've recently bought my first great headphones and amp, mostly from reading what you all have to say.  I picked up a T1 and WA22.  I'll have more thoughts soon, but for now, I just want to say that I am totally floored by the sound.  It's hard to get anything done as I'm basically just sitting around listening to new music and old favorites.  I am a full-time musician, have spent many hours with high-end recording gear in studios, and have a collection of vintage tube amps for guitar.  The WA22 is really an instrument in its own right, a vehicle that makes music better without changing it.  I'm so happy!  Thanks y'all.


----------



## migasson

@apossibleworld..

Yep, wish I coulda stretched to some T1's.. However, very happy to have my T90/WA22 combination.. There are some members who are not huge fans of the T1/ WA22 combination.. But if your happy, don't listen to them!! It's a great combo I think.. Enjoy


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





apossibleworld said:


> This is my first post at this forum.  I first read up here maybe 8 years ago, then forgot all about it, and have started thinking about these things again lately.
> 
> Another first -- I've recently bought my first great headphones and amp, mostly from reading what you all have to say.  I picked up a T1 and WA22.  I'll have more thoughts soon, but for now, I just want to say that I am totally floored by the sound.  It's hard to get anything done as I'm basically just sitting around listening to new music and old favorites.  I am a full-time musician, have spent many hours with high-end recording gear in studios, and have a collection of vintage tube amps for guitar.  The WA22 is really an instrument in its own right, a vehicle that makes music better without changing it.  I'm so happy!  Thanks y'all.


 
  Ah yes, the T1 and WA22.  A stellar combination.  Welcome!


----------



## Hibuckhobby

OK fellow woosies...and "opinion poll/check".  What do you think the chances would be of someone trading a WA6SE for my WA2?
  Love the way tthe 2 sounds, but am looking for the versatility of the 6 SE.  Or is this just a bad idea from the start?
  tnx,
  Hibuck....


----------



## dminches

Why do you need a trade?  Why not sell your WA2 and buy a WA6SE?  Someone here just did that.
   
  If you still have your WA6, sell that too.


----------



## senson

^ yes you might be able to buy a used WA22 if you sell both WA2 and WA6 since used value of WA22 drops more than their lower WOOs somehow. Also you can keep power tube from WA2 and Rectifier from WA6 
  BTW seems like I'll be joining 596 club  Jack has 596's in stock along with adapters if anyone's still interersted  but missed group buy


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hibuckhobby said:


> OK fellow woosies...and "opinion poll/check".  What do you think the chances would be of someone trading a WA6SE for my WA2?
> Love the way tthe 2 sounds, but am looking for the versatility of the 6 SE.  Or is this just a bad idea from the start?
> tnx,
> Hibuck....


 
   
  someone out there might.
   
  i personally enjoy having both amps


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





senson said:


> BTW seems like I'll be joining 596 club  Jack has 596's in stock along with adapters if anyone's still interersted  but missed group buy


 
   
  grats!
   
  r u pairing them with 6FD7 tubes, ive found that to be one of the best combinations for the LCD-2.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





senson said:


> ^ yes you might be able to buy a used WA22 if you sell both WA2 and WA6 since used value of WA22 drops more than their lower WOOs somehow. Also you can keep power tube from WA2 and Rectifier from WA6
> BTW seems like I'll be joining 596 club  *Jack has 596's in stock along with adapters if anyone's still interested  but missed group buy*


 
   
  Had it caught my attention that you were looking for a USAF-596, I would have mentioned that Jack had a few available 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (he was a part of our group buy).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wait, you're enjoying _Peaches....and cream?_ Bon bon vie!


----------



## senson

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> grats!
> 
> r u pairing them with 6FD7 tubes, ive found that to be one of the best combinations for the LCD-2.


 
  I will in few weeks  My LCD2 went back to Audeze for repair(got cracked wood) I should've gone with Bamboo I guess lol
  Also my M1DAC-A went back for replacement (USB connection was bad), I might just get refund and go for different DAC but the price I paid for it, I don't think there's better option.
  well I'm having hard time enjoying my listening  at least I still have my WA6SE and HD800 lol, using ipad and sound card is painful though
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Had it caught my attention that you were looking for a USAF-596, I would have mentioned that Jack had a few available
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  yes I was just asking Jack if he has a adapter in stock, he told me he has 596 as well so....


----------



## Rawrbington

whats jack asking for the 596 + adapter?
   
  I was the person that just sold the 2 and bought a 6SE.
  There's a lot of stuff i like better about the 2 than the 6SE.
  But the LCD2 is better on the 6SE.
  If its your main headphone its worth it.
  But i miss the crap out of the preamp option that the WA2 has
  and the sound.  Both sound excellent but the WA2 was just more, something.  i don't know what to call it.  The emotion and realness to the vocals was top notch


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> whats jack asking for the 596 + adapter?
> 
> I was the person that just sold the 2 and bought a 6SE.
> There's a lot of stuff i like better about the 2 than the 6SE.
> ...


 
   
  i feel the same way.
   
  though i enjoy the 6SE as well because it does have a more punch, soundstage, and openness.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Just got my black WA6SE sent from Jack!  Try to establish a baseline sound with a Tung Sol 5u4g + GE 6DE7.  Sounds fantastic for HD800!  The bass is too bloated for D2000 though (may be it's the 'phones' fault).
   
  A question for WA6SE owners, do you leave two 'phones connected or just one?  Manual said sound may "degrade" if two are connected.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i feel the same way.
> 
> though i enjoy the 6SE as well because it does have a more punch, soundstage, and openness.


 
  The big open soundstage was the first thing i noticed about the 6SE.  Fantastic.  Detail is top notch as well
   
  Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Just got my black WA6SE sent from Jack!  Try to establish a baseline sound with a Tung Sol 5u4g + GE 6DE7.  Sounds fantastic for HD800!  The bass is too bloated for D2000 though (may be it's the 'phones' fault).
> 
> A question for WA6SE owners, do you leave two 'phones connected or just one?  Manual said sound may "degrade" if two are connected.


 
  good choice on the color!
  Its been proven that the black ones sound better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I haven't ever tried 2 phones at once.  But i've only had mine for about a week.


----------



## Pudu

Hae a wee drammie for dear Mister Burns today.

_Ye Pow'rs wha mak mankind your care,
And dish them out their bill o' fare,
Auld Scotland wants nae skinkin ware
That jaups in luggies;
But, if ye wish her gratefu' prayer,
Gie her a haggis!_​


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




   
  I'd leave two phones connected now and again on my previous _WA 6 Special Edition_. I experienced a bit lower gain out of both but only slight degradation, if any. That twin cans connected _may_ degrade, doesn't mean it will in your system. And this is not a constant - one recording might call you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




out, while another let's you slide. However, since I've only a pair of ears, I preferred having one connected and the other on a stand very nearby. 
   
  Somehow, this post is missing a whole lotta clarity...we're tired tonight!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pudu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A *wee* with the *woo* is good any day!


----------



## LiuTim

Hi everyone!
I just won a pair of TS 5u4g's from Ebay. Anyone can tell me are these tubes good with WA5?THANKS!


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice pair of Rectifiers! Congrats....


----------



## Clayton SF

I was reaching out to the cosmos to help me decide which to buy but I got no guidance so I reach out again.


----------



## Silent One

You'd never see a fine collection like that
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 @ the corner Stick-'em-up! You should pick one and flow...
   
  My own circle is limited to French bubbly, Sparkling wines/Flat wines from around the Globe.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You'd never see a fine collection like that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And what a fine limitation you place yourself under, I'd say! Quality is what counts...


----------



## Pudu

That is an impressive selection of rhymes-with-orangey. Alas, I'm not well versed in any but their most pedestrian ones.

I marked the 25th with this:


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





pudu said:


> That is an impressive selection of rhymes-with-orangey. Alas, I'm not well versed in any but their most pedestrian ones.


 
   
  Neither am I. I am merely following Ultrainferno's good advice... vice.  I mean, recommendation. Be it for the mind, body, or soul; or ears and gut. He's the best.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Neither am I. I am merely following Ultrainferno's good advice... vice.  I mean, recommendation. Be it for the mind, body, or soul; or ears and gut. He's the best.


 
   
  You're making me blush!
  If you're in the mood for a Rusty Nail, try poring it over ice with the normal 12 yo green bottle Glenfiddich. Perfection. (hold the lime)


----------



## bfreedma

clayton sf said:


> I was reaching out to the cosmos to help me decide which to buy but I got no guidance so I reach out again.




I'd recommend buying the something from Glengoyne, particularly the 21 y/o if you can find it. The 96 in your picture is another good choice and wont be available much longer. Glengoyne is a phenomenal producer, but has just recently been "discovered" by the masses and prices are going up, in some cases dramatically.

I've got about 200 bottles of scotch in the collection and Glengoyne has been my goto House for the last few years.


----------



## jc9394

For some odd reason (mostly it is me being an AA), I can never keep my collection over 15-20 bottles.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I like the Japanese one lately, anyone tried them?


----------



## bfreedma

I like the Yamazaki line a lot, particularly the 18
   
  Hikaru is also worth trying and not too hard to find.  It's a blended scotch.  Yoichi is another really good single malt producer if you luck into it somewhere.


----------



## Pudu

jc9394 said:


> For some odd reason (mostly it is me being an AA), I can never keep my collection over 15-20 bottles.
> 
> I like the Japanese one lately, anyone tried them?




YES! Those are excellent. I've bought the 10 many times. I have a bottle of the 18 sitting here waiting to be opened ... but I'm in rationing mode since I can't buy it where I am, as far as I know. The 10 is lovely though.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You're making me blush!
> If you're in the mood for a Rusty Nail, try poring it over ice with the normal 12 yo green bottle Glenfiddich. Perfection. (hold the lime)


 
  Drinking Rusty Nails make me blush.
  I was at The Whiskey Shop and tried to email you that photo but it choked my iPhone.
  So I left the store and had to go stand in front of a pizza shop 3 blocks away to finish the upload.
  By then I just wanted to go home. So I did and promptly turned on my amp.
   
  WA22 with stock Russian 5Z4 rectifier ...


----------



## Rawrbington

Glenmorangie Nectar D'or
  or just regular Glenmorangie.
  The other glenmorngies aren't worth the extra price in my opinion.
  or if you want smoke and peat try Laphroaig or Lagavulan.
  And i agree with the Glenfiddich 12.  So good for the price


----------



## jc9394

rawrbington said:


> Glenmorangie Nectar D'or
> or just regular Glenmorangie.
> The other glenmorngies aren't worth the extra price in my opinion.
> or if you want smoke and peat try Laphroaig or Lagavulan.
> And i agree with the Glenfiddich 12.  So good for the price




X2 on regular Glenmorangie.


----------



## jc9394

pudu said:


> YES! Those are excellent. I've bought the 10 many times. I have a bottle of the 18 sitting here waiting to be opened ... but I'm in rationing mode since I can't buy it where I am, as far as I know. The 10 is lovely though.




If you think the 10/12 is good, wait til you open that 18. IMHO, it's one of the best 18 out there.


----------



## Pudu

jc9394 said:


> If you think the 10/12 is good, wait til you open that 18. IMHO, it's one of the best 18 out there.




Awesome. :tongue_smile: Can't wait!





bfreedma said:


> I'd recommend buying the something from Glengoyne, particularly the 21 y/o if you can find it. The 96 in your picture is another good choice and wont be available much longer. Glengoyne is a phenomenal producer,* but has just recently been "discovered" by the masses and prices are going up, in some cases dramatically.*
> 
> I've got about 200 bottles of scotch in the collection and Glengoyne has been my goto House for the last few years.




This is what's wrong with single malt, and the reason I've mostly moved to rum. Most people have no idea what a good aged rum tastes like and you can get a top shelf rum for the price of a very average bottle of whisky. 
(apologies for the off topic derailment) 



Has anyone owned the Woo2 and Violectric V200? It (zee German vun) is currently under consideration and I want to know how tubey "tubey" is in this case (the WA2 being my reference for tubey).


----------



## PanamaRed

Rolled in a pair of Brimar black glass CV1988. Now I try not to buy super expensive tubes if I can help it but i'm going to have to purchase another pair for a backup. I hate to pull these out but too expensive for me to use as an everyday tube. Currently paired with 596 and RCA 6AS7. Going to swap in some 5998s, listen to a dead show and store these babies.
   
  These might be my favorite 6SN7 variety


----------



## Silent One

Perhaps, you'll roll 'em in when you have guests..._be right over. _


----------



## jc9394

panamared said:


> Rolled in a pair of Brimar black glass CV1988. Now I try not to buy super expensive tubes if I can help it but i'm going to have to purchase another pair for a backup. I hate to pull these out but too expensive for me to use as an everyday tube. Currently paired with 596 and RCA 6AS7. Going to swap in some 5998s, listen to a dead show and store these babies.
> 
> These might be my favorite 6SN7 variety




They are not far from TS BGRP, I totally think they are worth it. Pair them with GEC 6AS7G and EML 5U4G...


----------



## PanamaRed

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They are not far from TS BGRP, I totally think they are worth it. Pair them with GEC 6AS7G and EML 5U4G...


 
   
   
  Ahh thanks for the recommendation jc. And Silent .. you bring some beer over and we might have a little listening session going on.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
 [size=11.0pt] Not sure where to start...  I guess with a succinct review of the 2399s... Get em if you can!  The increase in overall gain and bass definition and presence was more than worth it.  Whether through my 650s or my ADAM Compact Mk3 monitors, the drum sound on Blue Rondo a la Turk was outstanding - it was like being in the 30Th street studio with Joe. The dynamics and tone were that good!  Vocals sound great, too.  Corrine Bailey Rae's "Til It Happens To You" sounds superb, her emotion coming through so tangibly, you want to reach out and giver a hug.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]  [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] In general, vocals never sounded more real.  Esperanza Spaulding's Junjo is another shining example of how good this pre-amp was.  The title track just pulled me right in while the haunting "Cantora De Yala" moved me even though I can't understand the words she is singing on the tune.  Her bass is wonderfully mic'ed - sounding very natural and "in room" while the percussion is startling on "Two Bad."[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]  [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Rock music was equally glorious. N.E.R.D.'s "In Search Of..." made me listen all the way through - too distracting to try to work while it's playing.  Led Zep's "Achilles' Last Stand" never sounded better.  All of the layers are there.  Similarly, "Nobody's Fault But Mine" comes through in all it's glory, never sounding less congested.  Dan Reed's "Forgot to Make Her Mine" brings back long forgotten memories of... never mind, the past is the past, lol!   It's hard to "review" as I get sucked in and just keep listening.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]  [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Sound staging, imaging - pick your audiophile buzzword that connotes good sound - it'll fit.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]  [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] In short, the little head/preamp truly sounded great.  Unfortunately, this is all past tense as I no longer have that amp, thanks to Jack.[/size]


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Loving those 1939 vintage RCA's in the WA2!
"War's greatest hits" gotta love the layers of 
percussion on the HD700's. Now it's Sly and
the family stone.
Hibuck...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hibuckhobby said:


> Loving those 1939 vintage RCA's in the WA2!
> *"War's greatest hits"* gotta love the layers of
> percussion on the HD700's. Now it's *Sly and
> the family stone.*
> Hibuck...


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





hibuckhobby said:


> Loving those 1939 vintage RCA's in the WA2!
> "War's greatest hits" gotta love the layers of
> percussion on the HD700's. Now it's Sly and
> the family stone.
> Hibuck...


 
   
  Very nice indeed.
  Which tubes are a 1939 vintage?


----------



## obsydian

Apologies if i am using the wrong thread here.
   
  I have Woo WA 22 and Beyer T1's. Thinking of getting Audeze LCD 3. Are these gonna go ok together. I have not yet upgraded tubes...and am looking for advice. Im new to headphone audio and listen to metal and prog


----------



## jc9394

Just make sure you are using 7236 or 5998 power tubes for LCD. What source you are using?


----------



## obsydian

Musical fidelity M6 cd/dac
   
  Audirvana or Amarra when im not playing the CD


----------



## Rawrbington

suggestions for a phono stage to go with my 6SE that won't break the bank.
  preferably 150 or under
  unless theres a pressing reason to spend more of course.
   
  i don't have a super hi end TT or cart
  Pioneer pl 550 and a Shure M97xe cart


----------



## migasson

Go for one of the NAD phono stages, it's called a PP something or other.


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks!
   
  also
  how do i know to get MM or MC?


----------



## migasson

It's a PP-1, and your cart is an MM,


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> suggestions for a phono stage to go with my 6SE that won't break the bank.
> preferably 150 or under
> unless theres a pressing reason to spend more of course.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I recently picked up a Rolls - works great, and very affordable. (I have the same cart, matter of fact)
   
  http://www.rolls.com/product.php?pid=VP29


----------



## Hibuckhobby

rosgr63 said:


> Very nice indeed.
> Which tubes are a 1939 vintage?




6AS7G's
Hibuck...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> suggestions for a phono stage to go with my 6SE that won't break the bank.
> preferably 150 or under
> unless theres a pressing reason to spend more of course.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ever look into a vintage receiver?  I use a Marantz 2265B with tape loop out to WA22.


----------



## Rawrbington

I have a couple. But i've never had great success using the tape loop with another amp on them. Its like it congests the sound or something.  hard to put my finger on.  Thats always been with tape loop from aux or tape in.  Have never tried the phono from tape loop


----------



## bergnerm

I'd go with a Lagavullin 16-year if you can....


----------



## bergnerm

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was reaching out to the cosmos to help me decide which to buy but I got no guidance so I reach out again.


 
  Whoops... sorry... meant to quote.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I have a couple. But i've never had great success using the tape loop with another amp on them. Its like it congests the sound or something.  hard to put my finger on.  Thats always been with tape loop from aux or tape in.  Have never tried the phono from tape loop


 
   
  If your receiver has an independent Preamp section and independent Amp section, you should hear better sound using them instead of Tape Loop In/Out to your Woo.


----------



## Rawrbington

I tried the tape loop for the phono and i get nothing.  It works with other sources but not for phono.  not sure how that works or doesn't i guess.
   
  The marantz sounds good with teh LCD2.  Just not a good as the 6SE.  I'll just save for a phono stage.  I'll check out those mentioned.  The cambridge azur ones caught my eye as well


----------



## ben_r_

Woo guys: has anyone here spent any time comparing the WA3 to the Bottlehead Crack in particular with the HD-650's? I'm going back and forth on the two and wanted to hear some opinions on the sound of the two compared to one another.


----------



## Clayton SF

Who has purchased the WA7 (Fireflies) and any impressions on it if you have? Also who is in possession of other new products like the WDS-1 and the WTP-1? I'd like to hear about the new Woosies.


----------



## Chu

Pre-ordered a WA7, and interested in picking out some tubes to play around with.  I know little about how tube compatibility works though, does anyone know if these would be compatible?


----------



## Clayton SF

Those look to be compatible. Since you pre-ordered the WA7 you saved $200. It has since jumped from $799 to $999. Good move on your part.


----------



## Ultrainferno

There's a 596 for sale in the For Sale boards for $100 USD
  If that's the actual price I'm doing another group sale


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> There's a 596 for sale in the For Sale boards for $100 USD
> If that's the actual price I'm doing another group sale


 
   
  And to think that they were selling for $8 a piece about a year ago.


----------



## dminches

Please don't tell us stuff like that


----------



## bfreedma

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And to think that they were selling for $8 a piece about a year ago.


 

 Ouch.  Still love the 596, even at it's new price.  Would have bought a crate of them for $8


----------



## Ultrainferno

I am sure he means $80


----------



## bfreedma

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I am sure he means $80


 
   
  That makes sense but I've seen some crazy price increases on tubes that became suddenly popular.
   
  Certainly no regrets at $80 - the 596 hasn't been out of the WA6-SE since it arrived.  It's also been a good match with the 6GL7s which I never found appealing with other rectifiers.  The 596/6GL7 may be the most powerful tube combo available for the WA6-SE and has been a fantastic combination for the LCD3s.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I am sure he means $80


 
   
  Probably not, I remember my first 596 purchase was much less.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Initially, I spotted prices in the wild between $8-$13...oh, _and I got in early._


----------



## PanamaRed

Whoops responded to old post


----------



## LSD25

Has anyone here tested Asus' Xonar Essence One? (possibly with hd800s)
  I'm thinking of upgrading to a tube amp, possibly WA2.. or if i can aim higher a WA22.
  How much of a difference really is there going from a low-mid end amp to something like WA22 (considering a good dac is used)?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i don't think you'd get the best out of the HD 800s if u get the essence one. 
   
  the WA2 sounds great with the HD 800s and the WA22 is well known to be an amazing pair with the HD 800s
   
  guessing, i would say the difference between essence one and WA2 is huge, and then a smaller but still noticeable difference jumping up to the WA22


----------



## Silent One

@ C20H25N3O 
   
  If you're going to aim, then aim higher and shoot for the WA22. But only if you can spend for "balanced drive."


----------



## obsydian

LCD3 or HD800 with Woo WA22?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





obsydian said:


> LCD3 or HD800 with Woo WA22?


 
  HD800.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Both..



obsydian said:


> LCD3 or HD800 with Woo WA22?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Both..


 
  Naturally...


----------



## Z06_Pilot

my HD800's are spectacular with the WA22...they still retain all the qualities that make them fantastic: accurate, open, wide soundstage, crystal clear highs, no veil whatsoever, etc.  The WA22 adds just a touch a warmth-nothing that would color the music, but just enhances the low end.  Perfect!


----------



## eso6686

WA22 is a excellent amp for it $$$.. worth every penny...excellent with LCD-3 but you might want a better dac than essence one . I used the use the essence one as well but I was not really please with the sound. I upgrade to a NAD M51 and it was like night and day... I than went on and upgrade all the critical parts in the WA22 with top tier part like V-Cap and blackgates and OMG.... now my LCD-3 sound like HD800 with better bass. I am quite please with this setup so far.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





obsydian said:


> LCD3 or HD800 with Woo WA22?


 
   
  Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Both..


 
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Naturally...


 
   
   
  While WA22 can definitely drives the LCDs with 7236/5998 power tubes, especially when your source is hot but it does seem a little lacking compare to other amps.  Like beta22. LF, just my 2 cents.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> While WA22 can definitely drives the LCDs with 7236/5998 power tubes, especially when your source is hot but it does seem a little lacking compare to other amps.  Like beta22. LF, just my 2 cents


 
  that's part of the reason I ordered the Mjolnir SS amp.....I am looking hard at LCD3's being a second set of phones


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> While WA22 can definitely drives the LCDs with 7236/5998 power tubes, especially when your source is hot but it does seem a little lacking compare to other amps.  Like beta22. LF, just my 2 cents.


 
   
  Friday Sake time!
   
  Your balanced beta22 is daBomb! I listened to my se b22 last night with the DT770 32 ohms Anniversary Edition. Nice. Actually the b22 is nice with all of my headphones.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Friday Sake time!
> 
> Your balanced beta22 is daBomb! I listened to my se b22 last night with the DT770 32 ohms Anniversary Edition. Nice. Actually the b22 is nice with all of my headphones.


 
   
  Thx, I really need a drink now, it is 5pm somewhere.  Corey does a really good job on the beta22, wish i have more time with it.  it is been sitting idle for three weeks.


----------



## GrindingThud

This may be considered apostacy, but I'm looking at installing something like the crack speedball constant current source (CCS) load for the power tube in my WA3+. Has anyone added CCS to any of their OTL Woos?


----------



## PanamaRed

obsydian said:


> LCD3 or HD800 with Woo WA22?




You can't go wrong either way. If I had to chose I'd pick the HD800. When you roll the right tubes, the hd800 is not a slouch in the low end as some might claim. Acoustic jazz bass sounds phenomenal. 

However with Rock music the wa22 lcd2 combo is pretty epic.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> This may be considered apostacy, but I'm looking at installing something like the crack speedball constant current source (CCS) load for the power tube in my WA3+. Has anyone added CCS to any of their OTL Woos?


 

 The C4S (Speedball) schematic is out there and very easy to build or make a PCB for, but has anyone traced out the schematic for the WA3 to figure out what connection points would be used to install it? I dont have one otherwise I would have already! Looking for a used one to pick up in fact, there just doesnt seem to be many available.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Did you successfully _Childproof_ your WA22?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you successfully _Childproof_ your WA22?


 
   
  unfortunately not yet, she still like to turn knobs and push switches.  the beta is high up that she can't reach it.  i hope the WA22 can come out and play really soon, missed it so much especially on a cold winter night.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Naturally...


 
  Agreed. I loved my HD800s and LCD-3s with the WA22 when I owned it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Agreed. I loved my HD800s and LCD-3s with the WA22 when I owned it.


 
  Peter, are you still enjoying the W4S DAC2?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Peter, are you still enjoying the W4S DAC2?


 
  Absolutely!


----------



## Rawrbington

So i've had my black 6SE about 2 weeks.
   
  what the hell with all the dust!?!?
  i knew there'd be dust
  but crap i didn't expect this
  I do like the color, but i had no idea how much dust the silver was hiding
   
  anybody by chance heard the new PS Audio dac that they replaced the DLIII with?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody by chance heard the new PS Audio dac that they replaced the DLIII with?


 
   
  there some comments on the thread for it, but i don't think many people have it yet. or people are just rather saving up for the PWD rather than buying the new DAC


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> So i've had my black 6SE about 2 weeks.
> 
> what the hell with all the dust!?!?
> i knew there'd be dust
> ...




Good thing black sounds better than silver though ... right? Right?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Good thing black sounds better than silver though ... right? Right?


 
  Always!


----------



## silversurfer616

"Once tried Black, you can't go back".....or so they say!


----------



## Silent One

Where's the love for high maintenance?!




   
  Won't your tube purchases and their care require more than solid state amps?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> So i've had my black 6SE about 2 weeks.
> 
> what the hell with all the dust!?!?
> i knew there'd be dust
> ...


 
   
  My black 6SE just disappears in the dark!  What dust? lol


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Where's the love for *high maintenance*?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have few if them at home already, I do not need anymore.  Silver Woo for me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Silver for me, always. And an occasional black or two, too (Glenn's).
   
  Enjoying my WA4 with the DT770 32Ω Anniversary Edition (Thanx, L.)
  Shaky hand. Poor picture. Wonderful sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Silver for me, always. And an occasional black or two, too (Glenn's).


 
   
  And there can be no finer collection of Silver & Gold in San Francisco, than your Woo's and the Golden Gate Bridge.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And there can be no finer collection of Silver & Gold in San Francisco, than your Woo's and the Golden Gate Bridge.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

considering selling D7000s to buy HE-500s for my WA6-SE, what do you guys think, worth it or not?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Clayton, your WA2 is still enjoying its stay here


----------



## Pudu

Ah, the glow! And silver too. It looks so clean and bereft of dust. :veryevil:

Lovely.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Clayton, your WA2 is still enjoying its stay here


 
   
  Your ampcare services are excellent! You came highly recommended.
  Which driver tubes have you tried and which are you using at the moment?


----------



## silversurfer616

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> considering selling D7000s to buy HE-500s for my WA6-SE, what do you guys think, worth it or not?


 

 Had the HE500 and sold it after a couple of weeks as I prefered the LCD2 on my WA6.They were "unengaging" for me;same run balanced on a Phoenix!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Your ampcare services are excellent! You came highly recommended.
> Which driver tubes have you tried and which are you using at the moment?


 
   
  Atm I use EZ 80 Miniwatt rectifiers, RCA 6AS7G and Sylvania branded Siemens built 6922 tubes
  I haven't rolled any tubes for a long time now in the WA2, I like it like this!


----------



## Rawrbington

I never could tell a difference with the rectifiers really
   
   
  blindly turning up your amp when its been on a while is a bad idea.
  just grabbed a handful of tube.
  wasn't pleasant


----------



## Dubstep Girl

same here, i dont think rectifiers make a huge difference. i use Tesla 6CA4 (old JJ 6CA4) tubes for my rectifier sounds almost the same as the WA2 stock rectifier (International EZ 80)
   
  not to mention, i haven't see that much talk about rectifier tube rolling for WA2, its always power and drive tubes.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

I've tried tesla's, mullards and telefunken's and prefer
  the telefunkens.  A bit smoother, with deeper bass.
  To be fair, none of them sound bad in the WA2, some
  just a bit better.
  Hibuck....


----------



## Clayton SF

I am using JJ tubes in my WA4 (2011 version) (ECC82, E80CC, 12AU7, and EZ81). Except for the Russian 6C19, the vintage tubes tend to sound staticky. I think the WA4 is too sensitive because those same tubes are fine in another Woo Amp. The quietest ECC82 tubes are made my Mullard probably from the 50s or 60s. The JJs sound great. Unfortunately the best sounding tube is also the noisiest--the Mullard CV4003. Well at least one of them.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice looking family, Clayton!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice looking family, Clayton!


 

 Thanks. We're one big happy family.


----------



## ben_r_

Anyone know who makes Woos enclosures? I mean the base enclosure? Im sure they do a lot of the modifying in house, but someone else probably makes the base chassis.


----------



## senson

All of my babies back home from RMA and Exchange last week 
  I don't know if Audeze changed thier rosewood's coating, it became a lot darker than what I had before
  Also 596 is in!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

RCA 6DR7 and 596? 
   
  thats the same combo i've been using for my D7000!


----------



## senson

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> RCA 6DR7 and 596?
> 
> thats the same combo i've been using for my D7000!


 
  Yes RCA 6DR7 and 596
  I want to switch back and forth with 6FD7 later on but currently don't have much time to sit down and enjoy my music collections becasue of my crazy schedule


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





senson said:


> All of my babies back home from RMA and Exchange last week
> I don't know if Audeze changed thier rosewood's coating, it became a lot darker than what I had before
> Also 596 is in!


 
   
  Your ensemble looks fantastique! Hey everybody, it's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Pizza Night over @ senson's place!


----------



## senson

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your ensemble looks fantastique! Hey everybody, it's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you, How did you know I was thinking about having pizza for diner?


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> RCA 6DR7 and 596?
> 
> thats the same combo i've been using for my D7000!


 
   
  I've been using a pair of RCA 6DR7 in my 6SE for a few weeks ... been very pleased with them (in combination with a Sophia Princess rectifier).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





senson said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Lived in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Brooklyn for a time...


----------



## Taliesin

Has anyone tried the HD700 with various woo amps. Im looking at getting either the WA2, WA22 or WA6SE


----------



## Ultrainferno

I really loved it with the WA2! That's the only Woo I tried it with however. Not a lot of people like the HD700 but I find it one hell of a headphone.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone tried the HD700 with various woo amps. Im looking at getting either the WA2, WA22 or WA6SE


 
   
  To make the purchase of the WA22 worthwhile, be prepared to use a fully balanced source.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To make the purchase of the WA22 worthwhile, be prepared to use a fully balanced source.


 
   
   
  +1


----------



## Silent One

Is it me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or did the estimated px of the WA234 just jump 5k? Wait...why am I worried about this again?


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To make the purchase of the WA22 worthwhile, be prepared to use a fully balanced source.


 
  I found this to be the case to my ears.  I run my Woo DAC balanced to the WA22, and have a balanced(L/R XLR's) Black Dragon cable for my HD800's.  A/B listening tells me there is more presence in the soundstage(if that's possible with HD800's!) when running in balanced mode.  On music with a lot of acoustic instruments, they blend much better to me, in balanced mode.  To my ears, the difference is not subtle either.


----------



## Silent One

I had the pleasure of enjoying the '22' of other members...and simply springing for the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




snacks. Truth be told, I tired to buy one Pre-Owned in 2011 but couldn't bribe anyone. I have since moved on and later this year when I regain employment, something wonderful will await!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Is it me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I noticed that too....I think Jack decided to charge by the Kilo..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oddly, I could never afford that amp with my current (temporary) unemployment status. But, now that the price has jumped, and insanely so, by golly, I want it for $10k!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







   
*Consider*...the increase WOULD have gone toward the Stax SR-009...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oddly, I could never afford that amp with my current (temporary) unemployment status. But, now that the price has jumped, and insanely so, by golly, I want it for $10k!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  For something I can't afford, I never pay attention to.  For $15k, I can get a WES and SR-009 and a very nice gift for the lady.  Win win.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> For something I can't afford, I never pay attention to.  For $15k, I can get a WES and SR-009 and a very nice gift for the lady.  Win win.


 
  And that pairing would sound much better than the WA234 and any set of headphones you could ever find.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wisdom speaks.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> And that pairing would sound much better than the WA234 and any set of headphones you could ever find.


 
  Plus the wife will forgive me dropping $10k.  Let me run it by the CFO.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wisdom speaks.


 
   
   
  Happy wife, happy life...


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Happy wife, happy life...


 

 Hmmm... some of us feel its: NO wife, girlfriend(s), happy life


----------



## Pudu

ben_r_ said:


> Hmmm... some of us feel its: NO wife, girlfriend(s), happy life




Ya, but if you spring for the Woo monoblocks you'd still probably have to forego the hookers for a couple of months.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hmmm ....
  No Wife.
  Got Woo.
  Happy Life, too.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hmmm ....
> No Wife.
> Got Woo.
> Happy Life, too.


 
   
  Seems there is more than one way to make Woo-pi...


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hmmm ....
> No Wife.
> Got Woo.
> Happy Life, too.


 

 HA HA HA! Well played!


----------



## grokit

dubstep girl said:


> considering selling D7000s to buy HE-500s for my WA6-SE, what do you guys think, worth it or not?




You can always get the 500s, but the D7K is approaching collectable status at this point. I would keep the Denons and wait to try the HiFiMANS. 

I know you asked this a while ago but I am still infatuated with the D7000, they're all I have listened to lately


----------



## Silent One

We got ur back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 grokit!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We got ur back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> You can always get the 500s, but the D7K is approaching collectable status at this point. I would keep the Denons and wait to try the HiFiMANS.
> 
> I know you asked this a while ago but I am still infatuated with the D7000, they're all I have listened to lately


 
   
  ^ thanks guys. 
   
  its always the love/hate relationship with the denons that makes it complicated, sometimes i just love their bass and overall presentation, and sometimes, i feel like they're lacking when compared to T1 and LCD-2. 
   
  ill keep them for now though


----------



## Taliesin

So I guess not many people have tried the HD700 with woo gear.
The HD700 are weird, like Marmite, people either seem to really love them or hate them.


----------



## Silent One

Dr. DubStep reexamines the D7k and makes note...fills own Rx.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ thanks guys.
> 
> its always the love/hate relationship with the denons that makes it complicated, sometimes i just love their bass and overall presentation, and sometimes, i feel like they're lacking when compared to T1 and LCD-2.
> 
> ill keep them for now though


 
   
   
  Send it my way, I want to buy D7000 again...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hmmm ....
> No Wife.
> Got Woo.
> Happy Life, too.


 
   
   
  True...  I'm only speaking Wooies that are married.


----------



## devhen

Is it true that now that the pseudo dual power supply upgrade is standard on the WA6 that it is fairly close to the performance of the WA6SE? If so (or if not), how close are they in performance? I'm short on desk space and would really like the smaller form factor of the WA6 but I don't want to end up regretting not getting the better performing model.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





devhen said:


> Is it true that now that the pseudo dual power supply upgrade is standard on the WA6 that it is fairly close to the performance of the WA6SE? If so (or if not), how close are they in performance? I'm short on desk space and would really like the smaller form factor of the WA6 but I don't want to end up regretting not getting the better performing model.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  As a former owner of a *Black* _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_, this is something I wrestled with while trying to save up for the_ WA6_. After saving up for a few months and reaching my goal, I wisely decided to save a few more months and get a little bit more than I thought I needed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I knew I would have wanted the _Special Edition_ even before the _WA6_ hit the porch!
   
  If you're short on space, have you considered the _WA7?_


----------



## T.F.O.A

a quick question, i'm planning to buy the LCD-2, and just want to ask a question, does the lcd-2 works best with wa6se (for a tube amp) or with a solid state?


----------



## Silent One

I noticed you didn't offer an example of a solid state model, so it depends. That said, I listened to the LCD-2 for over a month using my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ and a 1977 Pioneer SX-650 stereo receiver. I found this run to be recording, genre and mood dependent - shining on one amp on a given night and less than on another.
   
  I now have two more (different) amps and would love to run a loaner pair through its paces...


----------



## shipsupt

Tube selection is the key to the LCD 2 and the 6SE. I'd recommend driver tubes with a higher amplification factor.


----------



## silversurfer616

Like..........?


----------



## shipsupt

I always take the chance to recommend the Sylvania *fat bottle* black plate 6FD7 in general, but more specifically for those with the high amplification factor try some of the various 6EM7/6EA7, 6DN7's, and 6GL7's.


----------



## Taliesin

Which tubes do people recommend for the WA2. Are the tubes offered by woo to by with the WA2 good ones. Will be pairing the WA2 with a HD700 when I get them. I know lots of people talk about the tungsol 5998 but I can't find a good seller of them in the UK


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Which tubes do people recommend for the WA2. Are the tubes offered by woo to by with the WA2 good ones. Will be pairing the WA2 with a HD700 when I get them. I know lots of people talk about the tungsol 5998 but I can't find a good seller of them in the UK


 

 http://langrex.co.uk/
   
  However, I'd not get the 5998 for the WA2 and the HD700. I like it more with the "normal" 6AS7G, the HD700 doesn't need the extra gain. imo


----------



## Pudu

The 7236 that Jack has are decent tubes - to my ear they are more dynamic but less smooth sounding than the 5889. As for the price...you can do probably better if you are prepared to hunt around. There had been talk of a 5998 group buy, I thought, earlier on. Not sure if that is still in the cards, or if I missed that, but I'd be all over that too.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





pudu said:


> There had been talk of a 5998 group buy, I thought, earlier on. Not sure if that is still in the cards, or if I missed that, but I'd be all over that too.


 
   
  Oh yeah that was me. It are 2399 tubes, but we'd need 30 buyers.


----------



## Pudu

Count me as #1 then! (And #2 if there's more than enough to go around)


----------



## GrindingThud

30 buyers gets the price down to what...do we think?
  Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> Oh yeah that was me. It are 2399 tubes, but we'd need 30 buyers.


----------



## Taliesin

What about the driver and rectifier tubes woo offers with the wa2, anybody had any experience with those tubes. I'm particularly interested in the driver as I heard rectifiers don't affect the sound as much.


----------



## T.F.O.A

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I noticed you didn't offer an example of a solid state model, so it depends. That said, I listened to the LCD-2 for over a month using my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ and a 1977 Pioneer SX-650 stereo receiver. I found this run to be recording, genre and mood dependent - shining on one amp on a given night and less than on another.
> 
> I now have two more (different) amps and would love to run a loaner pair through its paces...


 
  that's because i was hoping that someone might come up with something to compare (no trolling intended).
  I guess i just want to know whether i should go for solid state or tube for lcd-2 but this might be the wrong thread to ask.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'd have to check. I figured we'd never get to 30 
   
  Quote: 





grindingthud said:


>


----------



## Pudu

ultrainferno said:


> I'd have to check. I figured we'd never get to 30




_That_ sounds like a challenge lads. 






taliesin said:


> What about the driver and rectifier tubes woo offers with the wa2, anybody had any experience with those tubes. I'm particularly interested in the driver as I heard rectifiers don't affect the sound as much.



The rectifiers don't affect the sound all that much. The biggest sound changes are gained from the power tubes. The stock ones are fine - they sound good and you certainly don't have to spring for 7239/5889s if you don't want to. It's a great amp as is.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> What about the driver and rectifier tubes woo offers with the wa2, anybody had any experience with those tubes. I'm particularly interested in the driver as I heard rectifiers don't affect the sound as much.


 
   
  my WA2 came stock with philips 6922 drivers and international ez80, i upgraded the 6922 to JAN sylvania 7308 (i bought them much cheaper than what jack charges though, 260 dollars is outrageous cause i dont think they sound that much better than stock), which i feel might of just made the sound a bit more open, and the rectifier i upgraded to tesla 6ca4, which i don't think made too much of a difference. i'd say go for a good power tube and then a good driver, skipping the rectifier until u got a good sound with the others. 
   
  if u can't get tung sol power tubes, the sylvania 7236 are a good option as well, i enjoyed them alot with my hd 800 and beyer t1, while the sound isn't as smooth or warm, it makes the sound airier and detailed. if you don't feel like spending alot of money on expensive power tubes, even cheap tubes like RCA 6as7g are pretty good as well. 
   
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I always take the chance to recommend the Sylvania *fat bottle* black plate 6FD7 in general, but more specifically for those with the high amplification factor try some of the various 6EM7/6EA7, 6DN7's, and 6GL7's.


 
   
  +1, i find the RCA 6DR7 to be really good as well. a  bit more gain than 6FD7 and a tubier sound.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> _That_ sounds like a challenge lads.


 
   
  challenge accepted!


----------



## 286963

Hi, I wanna know.. 
   
  Why do WA6SE+AKG K702 sound too bright in my experience? Well, the bass is improved, however, the brightness which is more than enough in K702 is also being added up. This somehow gives me mixed feelings between Schiit Lyr or WA6SE as the best value headphone amp for K702.  (I run 6EM7+274B Sophia in WA6SE)
   
  If I do a quick comparison with Lyr and WA6SE, even though I can hear more detail on WA6SE, the brightness level makes listening become sometimes unpleasant.
   
  Anyone experience the same feelings like me? Or is it something wrong with my WA6SE as I have heard that WA6SE+K702 is one of the ?great? match? (Sorry,I am new in this world)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i had that same combination (AKG K70x with WA6-SE) and never found the combination to be bright or harsh.   try using sylvania or raytheon 6EW7 (open sounding tube with smooth highs) or 6DR7 with sophia and tell me what u think about that combination, i found it absolutely amazing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i found the bass very satisfying as well with the WA6-SE.


----------



## Pudu

dubstep girl said:


> challenge accepted!






Sorry... and lasses!


----------



## bowtung

I've finally decided to pull the plug for the Woo Audio WA2, I chose it over the WA6SE cause I like the sweeter tube sound, and also the fact that I can use it as a preamp as well. Currently I have a Musical Fidelity M1DAC, do you guys think it would be a good pairing with WA2, or should i probably get a new DAC? Also, do you guys have any experience in pairing the WA2 with power amps? I'm thinking a tube preamp and a SS power amp would be a very good match. I have a pair of B&W CM-1s. ManyThanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





bowtung said:


> I've finally decided to pull the plug for the Woo Audio WA2, I chose it over the WA6SE cause I like the sweeter tube sound, and also the fact that I can use it as a preamp as well. Currently I have a Musical Fidelity M1DAC, do you guys think it would be a good pairing with WA2, or should i probably get a new DAC? Also, do you guys have any experience in pairing the WA2 with power amps? I'm thinking a tube preamp and a SS power amp would be a very good match. ManyThanks.


 
   
   
  congrats! u should be fine with that DAC and the WA2 is a very good pre-amp!


----------



## senson

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1, i find the RCA 6DR7 to be really good as well. a  bit more gain than 6FD7 and a tubier sound.


 
  My current favorite tube combo for LCD2 is 6DR7 witth 596 I don't get to listen to Sophia much after 596 
   
  anyone can recommand a good dac to go with WA6SE? I  don't get to have good luck with M1DAC (second defective one which is going back again for refund or replacement)
  Even though I got a decent deal and great service, I don't think this dac is meant to be mine lol. my budget would be less than 6~800. I was thinking about Yulong D18, Should I get a cheap dac and save up for W4S DAC2 or Oppo 105 or other expensive dac. I think I can still get replacement M1DAC though(third time's a charm maybe???
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Silent One

Wyred4Sound DAC-1/DAC-2...tried and tested!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

maybe the new ps audio dac?


----------



## 286963

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i had that same combination (AKG K70x with WA6-SE) and never found the combination to be bright or harsh.   try using sylvania or raytheon 6EW7 (open sounding tube with smooth highs) or 6DR7 with sophia and tell me what u think about that combination, i found it absolutely amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I see... Dunno.. Is that a possibility that my amp has a defect or something? I am completely new with audio world. As really, the brightness can cause an unpleasant feeling sometimes. I'll try the tube you suggesting.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Oh yeah that was me. It are 2399 tubes, but we'd need 30 buyers.


 
  Or 15 WA22 buyers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I'll take two 2399s! I have a few pair of TS5998 now and I like them, so if you are serious about these tubes being TS2399, then count me in and put me down for two.


----------



## atomicbob

How does one join in on the Tung-Sol 2399 group buy? I would be interested in two. Are these NOS, a clone pilot run from some factory or ??


----------



## ben_r_

Is the 2399 the same as the Tung Sol 5998? Sorry new to tubes and still learning. But I would like to get a single Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## Silent One

*@ Ultrainferno: *I say we move to promote/pre-order the next 30 days to get an indication. Even someone like me sitting out on the curb with no use whatsoever for the '2399'_ (not true) _might even jump in to push sales forward.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *@ Ultrainferno: *I say we move to promote/pre-order the next 30 days to get an indication. Even someone like me sitting out on the curb with no use whatsoever for the '2399'_ (not true) _might even jump in to push sales forward.


 
   
  I'll call the tube guy next week and get back to you with price etc.
  @Bob & Ben: The Chatham 2399 = Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## GrindingThud

If the price is right, I may be in.  
    
  Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> I'll call the tube guy next week and get back to you with price etc.
> @Bob & Ben: The Chatham 2399 = Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## ben_r_

ultrainferno said:


> I'll call the tube guy next week and get back to you with price etc.
> @Bob & Ben: The Chatham 2399 = Tung Sol 5998.



Cool, keep us informed!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Or 15 WA22 buyers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ready for the snow??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As much as I like the TS5998, I prefer the TS7236 a little more.


----------



## dahan

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'd have to check. I figured we'd never get to 30


 

 I'll take two.


----------



## SeeHear

I have that exact combination! WA2 modified with a pre-out switch and extra set of pre-outs to run the subwoofer. The current run has the switch as stock; the "new" one I had last week was what Jack called "high-gain." It's unclear if that was just for the one he gave me, or if that is a new "feature." Regardless, I would try before buying as I found the increased gain to be too much and decided to get my old amp back with the switch repaired rather than have Woo correct the (different) switch problem on the new amp.

Sound wise, I find the M1DAC-WA2 combination to be very good! With the 2399s I got from Ultrainferno, the sound is the best I have ever had at home. I was using a Sunfire amp and liked it a lot. I recently got a Proceed Amp 2 that does everything the Sunfire did and has better bass. The bass extends lower, is just as well defined and the background is blacker. I am using ADAM Compact MK3 speakers. The "new" WA2 didn't allow me to run the sub and power amp simultaneously (a long story of its own) so I listened a lot with just the ADAMs. Since reverting to my old WA2, I've been very pleased but haven't been able to really evaluate the system as the system drive on my music player machine died. I just got another drive yesterday but won't have time to reimage until tonight/tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to being able to listen to the whole system with high-res files once all is working as it should. 


The editor mangled the quote - I tried to fix it, but...



> [name="bowtung"] I've finally decided to pull the plug for the Woo Audio WA2, I chose it over the WA6SE cause I like the sweeter tube sound, and also the fact that I can use it as a preamp as well. Currently I have a Musical Fidelity M1DAC, do you guys think it would be a good pairing with WA2, or should i probably get a new DAC? Also, do you guys have any experience in pairing the WA2 with power amps? I'm thinking a tube preamp and a SS power amp would be a very good match. I have a pair of B&W CM-1s. ManyThanks.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

I have a couple of TungSol 5998s, a bit dodgy (OK in the WA22, but some disturbing sputter/pops on the OTL WA2 during warm-up) and a couple of unmarked Chathams, sold as 5998, but I guess probably 2399s...
   
  Anyway, they're my favourites, so I'd be up for 2-3 (depending on pricing) as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> I have a couple of TungSol 5998s, a bit dodgy (OK in the WA22, but some disturbing sputter/pops on the OTL WA2 during warm-up) and a couple of unmarked Chathams, sold as 5998, but I guess probably 2399s...
> 
> Anyway, they're my favourites, so I'd be up for 2-3 (depending on pricing) as well.


 
   
  hey that happens to me as well with the 5998s (old pair did the same too), though there is nothing wrong with them


----------



## Silent One

Caution: after a fellow member heard the same sputtering and pops for some time, it took out the headphone driver. Happened this winter, in fact.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sunday, in your honour, I'm going to have a Belgium Waffle with pure Canadian Maple syrup chased by Champagne with a splash of hibiscus.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Caution: after a fellow member heard the same sputtering and pops for some time, it took out the headphone driver. Happened this winter, in fact.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup. Our member's beloved K701. I'm sure our fellow Woozie will be along to speak on it later this evening...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yup. Our member's beloved K701. I'm sure our fellow Woozie will be along to speak on it later this evening...


 




   
   
  not the first time i've heard of a k701 driver getting fried by an amp.
   
  i still wonder what causes the popping/sputters with WA2 though, i just let it warm up before i put tubes in. only happens with some tubes like 6AS7G and 5998


----------



## Silent One

My 5998s make me nervous. But, sound better than any other glass in the slot - I'm gambling to hear the best! This has me interested in Ultra's upcoming offering...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> not the first time i've heard of a k701 driver getting fried by an amp.
> 
> i still wonder what causes the popping/sputters with WA2 though, i just let it *warm up before i put tubes in*. only happens with some tubes like 6AS7G and 5998


 





  Do you mean the headphone?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sunday, in your honour, I'm going to have a Belgium Waffle with pure Canadian Maple syrup chased by Champagne with a splash of hibiscus.


 
   
   
  for a person who is temporary unemployed, you sure live a good life.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  you must have a lot of cash hidden between walls.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Only 'cause I spend little, guard my tea tins like original WE300Bs and then sell-Sell-SELL stuff I no longer need!


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Ready for the snow???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  We're already shoveling! Got to stay ahead...can't just wait 'till it's finished, or we'll be buried. Any way, Yes TS7236 is fine, but I need all of them


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> We're already shoveling! Got to stay ahead...can't just wait 'till it's finished, or we'll be buried. Any way, Yes TS7236 is fine, but I need all of them


 
   
   
  Nice, I wish I can keep collecting like you...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Only 'cause I spend little, guard my tea tins like original WE300Bs and then sell-Sell-SELL stuff I no longer need!


 
   
  Will you be in LA around end of May?  I have a planned trip there...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Do you mean the headphone?


 
   
  the amp,
   
   
  typo there lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very possible. If not, I'll still be Bayside when you visit Clayton SF - will come out and meet you, if so. Then, you can advise me on my next Woo purchase....BEFORE you start drinking!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Very possible. If not, I'll still be Bayside when you visit Clayton SF - will come out and meet you, if so. Then, you can advise me on my next Woo purchase....*BEFORE* you start drinking!


 
   
  Unless you go to the bar before me.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> We're already shoveling! Got to stay ahead...can't just wait 'till it's finished, or we'll be buried. Any way, Yes TS7236 is fine, but I need all of them


 
   
   
  Just finished 30' double wide drive way with about 8-12" inches of snow.  Reminder to my self, next house purchase need to get a shorter driveway.


----------



## silversurfer616

Eventually got my Princess and it sounds good;bit uneven at times....after only roughly 10 hours quite normal,me thinks!


----------



## solserenade

Nice photo!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just want to make sure I'm getting sound advice, since you'll be spending someone else's money - um...that would be mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - and if you're drinking and wildly suggesting I spend $10k 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 instead of $2k, then...


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just finished 30' double wide drive way with about 8-12" inches of snow.  Reminder to my self, next house purchase need to get a shorter driveway.


 
  ...or a snowblower


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> ...or a snowblower


 
  I do have one.  Lazy people like me?  I hit a piece of small rock, the auger bolt broke, only one side if auger is working.  Found a temporary bolt and fixed it this morning, need to go to the dealer after the ban is lifted.


----------



## grokit

There's a BAN on snow blowers in the middle of a freakin' blizzard?!?
   





 only in America.


----------



## Eee Pee

I think it's safe to assume there's a ban on driving, not snow blowers.


----------



## Pudu

If they made the ban on snowing it would save heaps of bother.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





pudu said:


> If they made the ban on snowing it would save heaps of bother.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> There's a BAN on snow blowers in the middle of a freakin' blizzard?!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No, driving ban.  2+ feet dumped since yesterday.


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Ultrainferno

Awesome


----------



## atomicbob

Knee deep snow! Wow! Time to stay inside and enjoy your music. I don't have such an excuse but I intend to spend a large block of time listening to mine through a newly acquired Beyer T90 on a WA3+ with my favorite 6AS7G now that I've minimized to in-audible a pesky residual mains hum.


----------



## longbowbbs

It is all just a good reason to stay in on a wintery weekend and listen to some nice warm tubes!


----------



## jc9394

I have to drag out my WA22 and give it a nice long listen.


----------



## bowtung

Quote: 





seehear said:


> I have that exact combination! WA2 modified with a pre-out switch and extra set of pre-outs to run the subwoofer. The current run has the switch as stock; the "new" one I had last week was what Jack called "high-gain." It's unclear if that was just for the one he gave me, or if that is a new "feature." Regardless, I would try before buying as I found the increased gain to be too much and decided to get my old amp back with the switch repaired rather than have Woo correct the (different) switch problem on the new amp.
> 
> Sound wise, I find the M1DAC-WA2 combination to be very good! With the 2399s I got from Ultrainferno, the sound is the best I have ever had at home. I was using a Sunfire amp and liked it a lot. I recently got a Proceed Amp 2 that does everything the Sunfire did and has better bass. The bass extends lower, is just as well defined and the background is blacker. I am using ADAM Compact MK3 speakers. The "new" WA2 didn't allow me to run the sub and power amp simultaneously (a long story of its own) so I listened a lot with just the ADAMs. Since reverting to my old WA2, I've been very pleased but haven't been able to really evaluate the system as the system drive on my music player machine died. I just got another drive yesterday but won't have time to reimage until tonight/tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to being able to listen to the whole system with high-res files once all is working as it should.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the reply! I should have my wa2 delivered very soon.  So, I imagine Jack prob does small revisions to his amps internally every so often, not sure (does anyone know???).... When i get mines, I don't have a old one to compare to, so I don't think I can tell the difference if he has made change or not, haha. I have read a lot of posts and topics on wa2 headphones pairing on head-fi, some reviews have it saying He-500 is a perfect match, and then I read some that says it's not. Some posts also say Audeze lcd--2 in not optimal. HD800 and t1 would also be great according to what I have read. My local headphone shop doesn't sell woo audios so I can't really check out the matching. I was just about to buy the he-500, and hten hesitated.


----------



## reeltime

Well, what the heck-- it's late on a Saturday night, I figure it's a good time to tell a story.
  
 I'm sitting in my home office spinning some extremely vintage vinyl.  Currently the sounds blasting out my HD800s is the Stones "Let it Bleed".  This is a true original London blue-label pressing.  Heavy & thick, the way they used to make great records.  This particular record is in M- condition, though the cover isn't what it used to be.  Of course who cares when the upper left corner  has Keith Richard's autograph.  I managed to get two of my early Stones albums signed by him back in the early 90's when he was playing with the Winos.  He was doing a concert for the TV station I worked at-- WTTW in Chicago.  Anyway-- I asked and he obliged-- I think it makes the record sound much sweeter.
  
 I'm in mid-turntable replacement.  Last weekend I finally started unpacking my vinyl collection after a long long hiatus (think: years).  The first two records I played on the old Sony sounded positively horrible.  I've never listened to the TT on my HD800s, I'm driving them with a Woo Audio WA5LE-- and perhaps the cartridge is just shot-- or sitting in a box in the garage did really bad things, I'm not certain.  But when something isn't working just right-- that usually means I'm going to spend a lot of money in short order.  
  
 The phono stage isn't the best-- It's a Rotel RQ970.  It needs an upgrade, but it will do for now.  But the turntable and cartridge have got to go.  I started my research and through a head-fier I struck a deal for a VPI Scout.  It will be here Monday, but I needed the cartridge, too.  I went through a bunch of recommended components lists Stereophile, etc., and the cartridge that kept bubbling to the top was the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood.  Clearaudio has a killer phono stage that will likely be a great match for it, but that will have to wait.  
  
 The cartridge arrived Friday.  I hooked it up to the Sony, and set the tracking force with the scale I purchased with the cartridge.  I don't have a good anti-skate gauge, but If you drop the needle on a record, you can see if there's a lot of force on the needle toward the center-- I just backed it off until the needle didn't bend when dropped in the groove.  Seems to be a good adjustment.  I eyeballed the alignment as best I could-- that gauge was still in the mail somewhere and played a few sides for fun.  Sounded pretty good, though the bass was a little thin.  
  
 Today the alignment gauge arrived.  My eyeball job wasn't so good, imagine that?  I straightened it out and viola!  The bass suddenly extended way way down in the spectrum.  Anyone who says the HD800 can't do great bass is sorely mistaken.  With the right amplifier, the bass extends to the depths of the range.  Most people underpower it-- then complain the bottom end is light.  
  
 I've got over a thousand lp's.  Not all are in great shape, but I really was quite the collector back in the day.  I even purchased every Mobile Fidelity album I could get my hands on when they announced they were stopping record production back in the day-- bought them retail and shelved a bunch of Beatles albums, still sealed, for a retirement fund.  A few are worth $500 and up.  Not a bad ROI.
  
 So I'm re-discovering my vinyl, and it's quite fun.  The MoFi records are simply stunning-- and I don't have the VPI Scout in the mix yet.  Should be quite an awakening come Monday night.  Meanwhile, Mick, Keef and the boys are telling me it's time to flip to side 2.  Alright boys, it's the least I can do...


----------



## _nomad

Took some photos of my WA2 before I sold it last week. Still regret it.. But it wasn't a good match with my new LCD-2s and I needed the cash for upgrades.. Anyway, just thought I'd share


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Well, what the heck-- it's late on a Saturday night, I figure it's a good time to tell a story.
> 
> I'm sitting in my home office spinning some extremely vintage vinyl.  Currently the sounds blasting out my HD800s is the Stones "Let it Bleed".  This is a true original London blue-label pressing.  Heavy & thick, the way they used to make great records.  This particular record is in M- condition, though the cover isn't what it used to be.  Of course who cares when the upper left corner  has Keith Richard's autograph.  I managed to get two of my early Stones albums signed by him back in the early 90's when he was playing with the Winos.  He was doing a concert for the TV station I worked at-- WTTW in Chicago.  Anyway-- I asked and he obliged-- I think it makes the record sound much sweeter.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





_nomad said:


> Took some photos of my WA2 before I sold it last week. Still regret it.. But it wasn't a good match with my new LCD-2s and I needed the cash for upgrades.. Anyway, just thought I'd share


 
   
  very nice pics, even better than the ones jack has on website.
   
  i agree, the WA2 isn't good for the LCD-2, can't get very loud at all without distorting


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Eventually got my Princess and it sounds good;bit uneven at times....after only roughly 10 hours quite normal,me thinks!


 

 Yes that new child needs some burn in time, come back in 50 hours and let use no what you think, great tubes smooth sound.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Yes that new child needs some burn in time, come back in 50 hours and let use no what you think, great tubes smooth sound.


 
   
  I just looked upside down at silversurfer616's address and learned we are not neighbors. If we were, he'd be in luck. When listening to a Woo, I can put 96 hours on a tube in 48 hours...no sweat!


----------



## I right I

I just joined headfi for a thread like this. I ordered a Woo WA6 which should arrive tomorrow. I don't know how I'm going to sleep! I already ordered an early 50s Mullard GZ34 rectifier tube and NOS 6GL7s drive tubes. I will be driving Sennheisers (HD598s and HD800s). I'm glad to be in good company!


----------



## Silent One

_Sweet Home Chicago_...congrats to our new fellow Woozie!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _Sweet Home Chicago_...congrats to our new fellow Woozie!


 
   
   
  +1
   




   
  nice choice of tubes too!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Quote: 





i right i said:


> I just joined headfi for a thread like this. I ordered a Woo WA6 which should arrive tomorrow. I don't know how I'm going to sleep! I already ordered an early 50s Mullard GZ34 rectifier tube and NOS 6GL7s drive tubes. I will be driving Sennheisers (HD598s and HD800s). I'm glad to be in good company!


 

 Welcome - I caught the head-fi bug while living in Chicago.  Lots of cold nights for critical listening sessions.  You've got some nice equipment coming your way!


----------



## Clevor

Has anybody seen or heard of USAF-596 tubes made by MU Inc.? As far as I know, United is the only brand associated with them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clevor said:


> Has anybody seen or heard of USAF-596 tubes made by MU Inc.? As far as I know, United is the only brand associated with them.


 
   
  No, I haven't. However, MU Inc. is a private company located in SoCal (Oceanside) and was established in 1965. They offer electron tubes, X-Ray Apparatus tubes & Irradiation stuff ect... 
   
  Perhaps, they or someone else makes a version or they're re-branding. Last series of '596' tubes I've seen from United Electronics ends by 1964-65. Coincidence? I'll call/write 'em tomorrow.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  Update: They're legit. They focus on Defense contracts with the Federal Gov't; located next door to Camp Pendleton.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clevor said:


> Has anybody seen or heard of USAF-596 tubes made by MU Inc.? As far as I know, United is the only brand associated with them.


----------



## Currawong

Thought I'd drop in to say hi with the WA7 + EH Gold Pin 6C45Ps and my LCD-3s.


----------



## Pudu

Very nice!

It's funny, with the relative sizes of diminutive Fireflies, the oversized LCD3, and the ARTist 3 in there too, it's hard for the brain the get a sense of what size anything actually is in that pic.

Impression of the newest Woo?


----------



## Currawong

With the stock tubes, the WA7 is warmish but beautiful through the mids. Vocals and jazz are glorious. Background is dead black, even at full volume with sensitive IEMs. The DAC is good too. The whole unit has character to the sound without overdoing it. The Gold Pins are brighter, more open, but they've only been in a few hours so far and I'm hoping the treble will settle a little after a few days.
   
  Here's a rather cramped side-by-side picture that should give you an idea of the size. The main amp section is small, but not PanAm small. It's very neat since the power supply sits behind my desk.


----------



## Pudu

Thanks for the overview. It sounds like a sweet / attractive package. Congrats!


----------



## I right I

Thank you to all for the warm welcome. I just got my WA6 warmed up...oh my god! It's outstanding. In the name of Woozies everywhere, declare today Tube Tuesday! Light 'em up, friends! I can feel your glow!


----------



## Silent One

Great! I had scheduled my return to the listening room Wednesday night. Let's see if I can make that happen tonight...after NCIS: Los Angeles, of course.


----------



## I right I




----------



## I right I

My handle (I right I) is a play on words similar to a cheeky vanity license plate. Can anyone guess what it means/says?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

My new baby WA6SE with Sofia 274B + 6GL7s.  Successfully captured the glow with a 4-sec exposure.


----------



## I right I

sko0bydoo said:


> My new baby WA6SE with Sofia 274B + 6GL7s.  Successfully captured the glow with a 4-sec exposure.


That's gorgeous. Nice. Props for matching up the HD800s with your Woo.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ very nice!
   
  i see a d7000 cable as well there, its trying to plug itself into the amp


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ very nice!
> 
> i see a d7000 cable as well there, its trying to plug itself into the amp


 





 Good eyes!  Yup, that the D7000 tries to compete with the HD800.  Hmm...still decide with 'phones sound better.


----------



## Silent One

Sko0byDoo making SoCal proud!




   
  What was the very first track you listened to?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sko0byDoo making SoCal proud!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A friend was just recently pointed me to the musics of a Norwegian soprano, Sissel Kyrkjebø.  The first track, her "O Helga Natt"/"O Holy Night."  The best version I've ever heard!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Good eyes!  Yup, that the D7000 tries to compete with the HD800.  Hmm...still decide with 'phones sound better.


 
   
   
   
  also noticed that your WA6-SE is switched around compared to the older version, guess Jack changed the amps appearance. ( the old WA6-SE had the power supply/amp switched around, as you can tell in other WA6-SE pictures)


----------



## teknikk7

Hello,
   
  My first post in the Woo Audio thread.  I have on order a WA6, should be here in a few days.  I am torn on which DAC to get.  My budget is $150-$200.  Headphones are Audio Technia ATH-M50 & Beyer 990 Pro.
   
  Looking at D1,
  HRT Streamer II
  SCHIIT MODI
   
  Thanks guys


----------



## migasson

Woo amps are just fantastic


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> My first post in the Woo Audio thread.  I have on order a WA6, should be here in a few days.  I am torn on which DAC to get.  My budget is $150-$200.  Headphones are Audio Technia ATH-M50 & Beyer 990 Pro.
> 
> Looking at D1, HRT Streamer II or SCHIIT MODI


 

 Hi teknikk7!

 2nd post I see! Well in case nobody has said it to you yet, welcome to head-fi and apologies about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I can't speak for the others, but personally I have been using a Schiit Modi with a Woo WA6 and I can say that it sounds superb. Also the Modi is a bargain at $99 so it's really a great place to start. I personally don't believe DACs are very important in the chain for good SQ. Recording quality and good headphones should come equal first with a good amp being a close second depending on the headphones. DACs as a close number 3 if you have a bad soundcard and finally, I'd place cables a solid fourth.


 My rig:


----------



## Pudu

We seem to be recruiting at quite a rate lately. 

Congrats, and welcome aboard, to all our new Woosies!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> We seem to be recruiting at quite a rate lately.
> 
> Congrats, and welcome aboard, to all our new Woosies!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   
  +1


----------



## I right I

scolaiw said:


> Hi teknikk7!
> Check out Musical Fidelity's V-DAC II. It's a good buy for around $350 retail. If you can pick up an Oppo universal disc player, even better. Remember this: the music cannot sound any better than the signal coming out of your DAC. Bad DAC = Bad music. Having said that, one of the best DACs out there is in your iPod. Seriously. IPods have awesome DACs. Even the older iPods have had awesome DACs for the last ten years. I use my iPad as a DAC and it plays lossless files like a BOSS.
> 
> 2nd post I see! Well in case nobody has said it to you yet, welcome to head-fi and apologies about your wallet.
> ...


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





i right i said:


>


 

 Thanks for the info.  My primary source of music comes from the computer, all FLAC and some 24/96 stuff played with foobar. I agree, the older iPods were decent, I just swapped in a 240GB Harddrive for a 5G classic and threw on Rockbox for my dad.  I have a 24Bit Sound Blaster 3Di in my Alienware.  I think it sounds horrible. I briefly had a hifiman ef2a and that little thing kicked ass playing through it's internal dac.
   
  You think the SCHIIT MODI is better than the HRT streamer II? A lot of reviews seem to have the streamer ahead just slightly.


----------



## Taliesin

Has anyone tried the WA6 with the sennheiser HD700


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> also noticed that your WA6-SE is switched around compared to the older version, *guess Jack changed the amps appearance. *( the old WA6-SE had the power supply/amp switched around, as you can tell in other WA6-SE pictures)


 
   
  It's two cases connected with an umbilical - Left/right is up the individual user.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> Thanks for the info.  My primary source of music comes from the computer, all FLAC and some 24/96 stuff played with foobar. I agree, the older iPods were decent, I just swapped in a 240GB Harddrive for a 5G classic and threw on Rockbox for my dad.  I have a 24Bit Sound Blaster 3Di in my Alienware.  I think it sounds horrible. I briefly had a hifiman ef2a and that little thing kicked ass playing through it's internal dac.
> 
> You think the SCHIIT MODI is better than the HRT streamer II? A lot of reviews seem to have the streamer ahead just slightly.


 
   
  I honestly can't speak for the HRT streamer since I've never heard it but I really think the modi is a bargain. Since your files don't go beyond 24/96, then everything is fine. I have auditioned the Schiit Bifrost and I would say that the Modi is 99% as good as the Bifrost which is 6x the price. The only real difference is that I noticed the modi was had a ever so slightly stronger treble. But even then, blind testing only produced a 60/40 accuracy. The downside is that the modi is USB supplied and does not offer any other forms of input. Funny though, my Alienware M17x laptop has a brilliant soundcard. Although it can't compare to the modi, it's really quite brilliant for a stock laptop soundcard.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone tried the WA6 with the sennheiser HD700


 
   
  Oh yep, I have. I find that the HD700 has a really weird sound signature. Whilst the HD 650 is very laid back and warm (my preferred sound) and the HD 800 is much more clear, neutral, treble friendly and possessing better soundstage, I find that the HD 700 tries a little too hard mixing the sound signatures. On my first listen, I thought the sound was brilliant, like it had got all the rights of the Sennheiser brand and put it into one package but the longer I listened the more I disliked the sound. It was like a jack of all trades, master of none. It really didn't benefit from that warm tubey Woo sound we've come to expect. For example, I find the HD 650 to really complement well with the WA6 and similarly providing a mellow warmness to the HD 800 (assuming you like that sound) unfortunately with the HD 700, I feel the tubey Woo amp sound clashes with the sound signature of the HD 700. You are far better of pairing it with an SS amp such as the auditor of phonitor. Hope that helps.


----------



## I right I

scolaiw said:


> Oh yep, I have. I find that the HD700 has a really weird sound signature. Whilst the HD 650 is very laid back and warm (my preferred sound) and the HD 800 is much more clear, neutral, treble friendly and possessing better soundstage, I find that the HD 700 tries a little too hard mixing the sound signatures. On my first listen, I thought the sound was brilliant, like it had got all the rights of the Sennheiser brand and put it into one package but the longer I listened the more I disliked the sound. It was like a jack of all trades, master of none. It really didn't benefit from that warm tubey Woo sound we've come to expect. For example, I find the HD 650 to really complement well with the WA6 and similarly providing a mellow warmness to the HD 800 (assuming you like that sound) unfortunately with the HD 700, I feel the tubey Woo amp sound clashes with the sound signature of the HD 700. You are far better of pairing it with an SS amp such as the auditor of phonitor. Hope that helps.




I listened to the HD700 with a Bryston amp. Not bad for non-accoustic music. Not at the top of my list though.


----------



## I right I

scolaiw said:


> Oh yep, I have. I find that the HD700 has a really weird sound signature. Whilst the HD 650 is very laid back and warm (my preferred sound) and the HD 800 is much more clear, neutral, treble friendly and possessing better soundstage, I find that the HD 700 tries a little too hard mixing the sound signatures. On my first listen, I thought the sound was brilliant, like it had got all the rights of the Sennheiser brand and put it into one package but the longer I listened the more I disliked the sound. It was like a jack of all trades, master of none. It really didn't benefit from that warm tubey Woo sound we've come to expect. For example, I find the HD 650 to really complement well with the WA6 and similarly providing a mellow warmness to the HD 800 (assuming you like that sound) unfortunately with the HD 700, I feel the tubey Woo amp sound clashes with the sound signature of the HD 700. You are far better of pairing it with an SS amp such as the auditor of phonitor. Hope that helps.




I listened to the HD700 with a Bryston amp. Not bad for non-accoustic music. Not at the top of my list though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> It's two cases connected with an umbilical - Left/right is up the individual user.


 
   
  not on mine, the cable is too small and its positioned at one corner of the amp, it has to left/right or else the cable isn't long enough. unless of course he purchased a longer umbilical cable to connect them.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm confused too.  You are saying let the amp warm up before plugging in the 'phones, right?  Not the tubes.


----------



## I right I

seehear said:


> I'm confused too.  You are saying let the amp warm up before plugging in the 'phones, right?  Not the tubes.




No, no, no...you need to do some jumping jacks or go for a quick jog before listening to your headphones...YOU need to be warmed up, not your amp.


Sorry, I couldn't help it.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> also noticed that your WA6-SE is switched around compared to the older version, guess Jack changed the amps appearance. ( the old WA6-SE had the power supply/amp switched around, as you can tell in other WA6-SE pictures)


 
   
  The switch was done by me  ...I asked Jack to extend the umbilical cable few inches from the stock length.  The reason, the Bifrost's output RCAs are on the right (looking from front) and I want to minimize the interconnects' length (I diy ones myself, encountered another problem in doing so but that is another story).  Hence, the amp portion is on the right.  Besides, per my setup, the volume button is closer to reach.


----------



## Ultrainferno

FYI: Tomorrow I should have info on the 2399/5998 tube group buy


----------



## Pudu

Bring it! 

:tongue_smile:


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> FYI: Tomorrow I should have info on the 2399/5998 tube group buy


 

 Awesome.


----------



## migasson

Has anyone heard the Psvane 274 B rectifier in the context of a WA22.. And how it compares to the EML 5u4g and Sophia Princess... I'm running Audeze LCD-2's, and Moon Audio Black Dragon cable coming soon


----------



## migasson

My new addition ...joined the LCD-2/WA22 family


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Just arrived...


----------



## atomicbob

migasson said:


> My new addition ...joined the LCD-2/WA22 family




I bet that is one enjoyable rig on which to listen for hours! How does the LCD-2 compare with the T90 to your ears?


----------



## atomicbob

visceriouszero said:


> Just arrived...




Impressions when you have them, please!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

atomicbob said:


> Impressions when you have them, please!




Will do!

It is larger than I expected though... XD


----------



## migasson

@atomicbob... You know I love the T90 and will regret selling it! The T90 has a wider soundstage, but for me, sometimes the highs are too high with certain records. The LCD fixed that, plus with " more meat and potatoes" in the mids and bass if you know what I mean! 7236 valves are in too. There still breaking in, so have yet to see how it goes


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





migasson said:


> Has anyone heard the Psvane 274 B rectifier in the context of a WA22.. And how it compares to the EML 5u4g and Sophia Princess... I'm running Audeze LCD-2's, and Moon Audio Black Dragon cable coming soon


 
   
  Quote: 





migasson said:


> My new addition ...joined the LCD-2/WA22 family


 
   
  Congrats!
   
  I have the Psvane 274b somewhere, but I do need to re-visit it at some point. From memory it is a very nice, airy-sounding tube with great midrange detail, imaging and euphonics, but a bit lacking in low end impact and overall "body". I don't have the more lush-sounding 2399/5998 power tubes anymore (using 7236 now) but I would think it would combine well with those.


----------



## atomicbob

@migasson: Thank-you. As our hearing is similar, your thoughts on the LCD2 are appreciated. I have HE-500 for orthos currently but am considering selling and moving to Audeze. I haven't run into a treble issue yet with the T90, but I have a lot of catalog to get through. Maybe the combination of V800 + W3+ with a particular 6AS7G is the right balance for the T90 for my ears.


----------



## regular.guy

I just received my new wa-5, with capacitor upgrade, tonight!  Totally stoked!  I can't believe I just spent over $4,000 on a headphone amp.  People that I told about the amp think I'm stupid! Pictures don't do it justice.  The Woo is replacing my Antique Sound Lab MG head OTL mk III. Hooked it up 5 minutes ago with the stock tubes.  Tell ya what, it sounds significantly better than my prior amp with zero break-in.  The wa-5 is pushing a pair of Senn HD six-fiddy's with a Cardas cable upgrade, the Ultrasone Pro 900's later. The ASL sounded dark, slow, closed in, and had occasional crackle noises with both pairs of headphones.  Too bad I don't have an appropriate pair of speakers to use.  My Thiel 2.3's is one of the worst pairings for the 300b, but having the 8 watts opens me up to the HiFi HE-6 and Wee +electrostats.


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats Regular.Guy!  Any nice pics of the new addition?


----------



## Silent One

Wait, he ain't no regular.guy with a WA5! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Congrats on bringing it home.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> I just received my new wa-5, with capacitor upgrade, tonight!  Totally stoked!  I can't believe I just spent over $4,000 on a headphone amp.  People that I told about the amp think I'm stupid! Pictures don't do it justice.  The Woo is replacing my Antique Sound Lab MG head OTL mk III. Hooked it up 5 minutes ago with the stock tubes.  Tell ya what, it sounds significantly better than my prior amp with zero break-in.  The wa-5 is pushing a pair of Senn HD six-fiddy's with a Cardas cable upgrade, the Ultrasone Pro 900's later. The ASL sounded dark, slow, closed in, and had occasional crackle noises with both pairs of headphones.  Too bad I don't have an appropriate pair of speakers to use.  My Thiel 2.3's is one of the worst pairings for the 300b, but having the 8 watts opens me up to the HiFi HE-6 and Wee +electrostats.


 
   Awesome!  Congrats!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Just set up my WA7 and am listening to my test tracks with the FitEar MH335DW. Yes, its quiet enough to drive CIEMs! I love it!


----------



## migasson

@atomicbob.. I seriously have a hard time letting the T90's go. The desire to run balanced phones, and I'm a sucker for great mids also swayed me to the LCD's. the best thing I can say so far is that with the LCD's I'm listening to the music, not analysing the equipment! WA22/T90 is a great combo, if you don't have the desire to rewire your Beyers balanced @grokit, thanks for the input. I want what the Psvane offers, but bass too. Can't be bothered switching my power tubes again, so I'll give the Psvane a miss and go for the Sophia first, then maybe the EML


----------



## reeltime

I run the PSvane 181 TII on my WA-5LE and I really really like them.  They barely fit!


----------



## grokit

silent one said:


> Wait, he ain't no regular.guy with a WA5!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




X2, congrats on the dream amp!


----------



## senson

I got the first portable Woo!!! LOL it makes my iphone5 sound sooo much better!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Well I use iPod 5th as a portable dap actually


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





senson said:


> I got the first portable Woo!!! LOL it makes my iphone5 sound sooo much better!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nicely done! How did you do that?


----------



## daverich4

For the last year I've been driving my HD800's with a HeadRoom "Maxed Out" Desktop amp but last month, at the Denver, NC mini meet, I got to hear them driven by a WA22. I really loved the combination and a couple of days later amcananey had a mint black WA22 for sale which worked out well for everyone except my wallet. It came with a Sofia Princess and I've since rolled in a pair of Sylvania 7236 Power Tubes that I got from Jack. My big rig is all tubes and I tend to favor listening to solo singers backed by small combos so, based on my impressions of earlier posts, I think a pair of Shuguang Treasure's are next.
   
  I have a question about aftermarket cables though. Can anyone give me some guidance on whether to get balanced cables or not? I'm driving the Woo with the balanced outs from my Logitech Transporter but from reading through the forum there appears to be a difference of opinion as to whether the WA22 is balanced all the way through. If there is an improvement in the sound, does it make any difference if I get the 4pin or 3pin termination? Thanks.
   
   
  (image missing)


----------



## grokit

daverich4 said:


> For the last year I've been driving my HD800's with a HeadRoom "Maxed Out" Desktop amp but last month, at the Denver, NC mini meet, I got to hear them driven by a WA22. I really loved the combination and a couple of days later amcananey had a mint black WA22 for sale which worked out well for everyone except my wallet. It came with a Sofia Princess and I've since rolled in a pair of Sylvania 7236 Power Tubes that I got from Jack. My big rig is all tubes and I tend to favor listening to solo singers backed by small combos so, based on my impressions of earlier posts, I think a pair of Shuguang Treasure's are next.
> 
> I have a question about aftermarket cables though. Can anyone give me some guidance on whether to get balanced cables or not? I'm driving the Woo with the balanced outs from my Logitech Transporter but from reading through the forum there appears to be a difference of opinion as to whether the WA22 is balanced all the way through. If there is an improvement in the sound, does it make any difference if I get the 4pin or 3pin termination? Thanks.




Congrats! I just rolled a recently-acquired backup Princess into my WA22 as well. It's been a while, and I still love the sound of this tube with the 7236's and the Shuguang Treasure drivers. Definitely recommended with the HD800!

Regardless of the debate of whether the WA22 qualifies as balanced or not (evidently it depends upon your interpretation of the term :rolleyes, the consensus on using balanced cables from a balanced source is: 
[COLOR=FF00AA]_DO IT!_[/COLOR] 
The WA22 definitely improves when using a balanced source.


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congrats! I just rolled a recently-acquired backup Princess into my WA22 as well. It's been a while, and I still love the sound of this tube with the 7236's and the Shuguang Treasure drivers. Definitely recommended with the HD800!
> 
> Regardless of the debate of whether the WA22 qualifies as balanced or not (evidently it depends upon your interpretation of the term
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the response. I am using a balanced source but I've not been able to come up with any information on whether the WA22 balanced outs make any difference. 
   
  On another note, I'd like to post a pic of my rig but can't get the image to embed in my post like every one else. If I use the attach button it ends up as a downloadable file in my post and if I cut and paste the image displays in the editor but not in my post. Something simple that I'm doing wrong? Thanks.


----------



## john57

It is my understanding that the W22 needs a balanced source for full performance but for the output it does not matter what you use since the same level power is available for single ended as well. I would think a re-cable may make more of a different in this situation.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> On another note, I'd like to post a pic of my rig but can't get the image to embed in my post like every one else. If I use the attach button it ends up as a downloadable file in my post and if I cut and paste the image displays in the editor but not in my post. Something simple that I'm doing wrong? Thanks.


 
  No idea, but try closing your browser and log back in...


----------



## daverich4

This is where my new (used) WA22 ended up.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> This is where my new (used) WA22 ended up.


 
  Nice, I see that you are using the _Transporter_ for a source. Same setup here as well. I use a balanced cable from _APureSound V3  Balanced Headphone Cable. I t uses 3pin XLR to connect to the WA22. I use a Blue Jeans from the transporter to the WA22_


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Nice, I see that you are using the _Transporter_ for a source. Same setup here as well. I use a balanced cable from _APureSound V3  Balanced Headphone Cable. I t uses 3pin XLR to connect to the Transporter._


 
   
  I'm using Audioquest Colorado balanced interconnects.


----------



## daverich4

This is the view out the window next to my new (used) WA22 yesterday morning. It was our first snow in over two years. Sometimes when the sun is just coming up and lighting the treetops in an orange glow it looks like the world is warming up it's tubes to start the new day.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> Sometimes when the sun is just coming up and lighting the treetops in an orange glow it looks like the world is warming up it's tubes to start the new day.


 
   
  Well put!


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> This is the view out the window next to my new (used) WA22 yesterday morning. It was our first snow in over two years. Sometimes when the sun is just coming up and lighting the treetops in an orange glow it looks like the world is warming up it's tubes to start the new day.


 
   
  What a lovely view you have there dave! Cherish it! I'm green with jealous rage right now hahaha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How are the WA22s sounding so far?


----------



## Pudu

Man, if I had woo tubes sitting next to that view ... I wouldn't move for days at a time.


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> What a lovely view you have there dave! Cherish it! I'm green with jealous rage right now hahaha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm really pleased with the WA22. With my solid state rig the highs from my HD800's were always a little aggressive for my personal taste and the type of music that I listen to. The tubes seem to have tamed that problem while still retaining detail and sparkle. I'm a fan!


----------



## migasson

WA22's freaking rock. Love mine to bits, feed mine with records, thru to LCD-2's


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> Sometimes when the sun is just coming up and lighting the treetops in an orange glow it looks like the world is warming up it's tubes to start the new day.


 
  Nice!  A pleasant thought.  Happy Monday.


----------



## Pudu

I got bored this evening (because I unequivocally _don't_ have a view like ^that ^) and saw the tripod propped in the corner...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> This is the view out the window next to my new (used) WA22 yesterday morning. It was our first snow in over two years. Sometimes when the sun is just coming up and lighting the treetops in an orange glow it looks like the world is warming up it's tubes to start the new day.


 
  Nice! loving the lake view while listening to great tunes. My way as well...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I got bored this evening (because I unequivocally _don't_ have a view like ^that ^) and saw the tripod propped in the corner...


----------



## senson

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nicely done! How did you do that?


 
  There's shop called BlissfulCASE. you can make custom iPhone cases (4,4S,5) and Galaxy S3, iPad mini


----------



## Ultrainferno

I managed to get twenty 2399 Chatham/Tung sol tubes (equals 5998 Tung Sol). 4 are already spoken for so 16 are left, if you're interested pm me for prices and info.
  First come, first serve. I have a USA distributor as well to save on shipping costs.
   
  U.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I managed to get twenty 2399 Chatham/Tung sol tubes (equals 5998 Tung Sol). 4 are already spoken for so 16 are left, if you're interested pm me for prices and info.
> First come, first serve. I have a USA distributor as well to save on shipping costs.
> 
> U.


 

 PM Sent.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hi there Woosies. The time has come for me to reluctantly list my WA22 for sale. I just listed it with all of my premium tubes so it might be a good opportunity for those still on the fence or coming up from a WA6SE or WA22. It's quite a bargain considering it comes with all of these tubes.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/651839/woo-audio-wa22-w-premium-tubes
   
  I also listed my United Electronics USAF 596 and adapter from Glenn, which probably only has 50 hours on it as well as my Moon Audio v3 XLR interconnects.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/651852/united-electronics-usaf-596-rectifier-tube-and-adapter
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/651847/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-xlr-interconnects
   
  I have really enjoyed being a member of this thread for the last year. Thanks to all for making it a great part of my audio journey.
   
  I am primarily listing this to focus on my portable rig based on a CLAS-db and currently Apex Glacier. I'll probably add an ALO Continental V3 portable tube amp to help me ease my tube withdrawal. The emphasis on portable gear is due to work and family constraints which has greatly limited my time to kick back and enjoy the tube glow.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Wow, phenominal view for listening - very nice.
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice! loving the lake view while listening to great tunes. My way as well...


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I managed to get twenty 2399 Chatham/Tung sol tubes (equals 5998 Tung Sol). 4 are already spoken for so 16 are left, if you're interested pm me for prices and info.
> First come, first serve. I have a USA distributor as well to save on shipping costs.
> 
> U.


 
   
  PM sent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Hi there Woosies. The time has come for me to reluctantly list my WA22 for sale. I just listed it with all of my premium tubes so it might be a good opportunity for those still on the fence or coming up from a WA6SE or WA22. It's quite a bargain considering it comes with all of these tubes.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/651839/woo-audio-wa22-w-premium-tubes
> 
> ...


 
   
  One's lifestyle change is something understood by many of us here. Greater things may await in your audio adventure.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One's lifestyle change is something understood by many of us here. Greater things may await in your audio adventure.


 

 I ride the carousel of amps. Can't part with any of 'em. Well, at least for this year.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sometimes, I evaluate my rig's status and where I'd like to go and contemplate starting over. _Complete with a loud..._


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sometimes, I evaluate my rig's status and where I'd like to go and contemplate starting over. _Complete with a loud..._


 

 Felix is my favorite vintage avatar or yours. Kaboom! )


----------



## Pudu

I'd forgotten you'd run with Felix for a while!

Agreed... it's my favourite non-mostly-naked avatar of yours.


----------



## Gnast78

Preferences


     
  Preferences


   
[size=13.0pt]Hello fellow Woosies, [/size]
[size=13.0pt]Last year I spent countless hours in the head-fi forum reading the comments from many of the members and finally decided to jump into this wonderful world of headfi just before Xmas with both feet and no safety net. I bought the W5-LE and a pair of LCD-3. I don’t think a day has gone by since I got the amp and the new headphones where I didn’t power up the Woo and listen to some music even if it’s only for 30-40 minutes. I’m no audiophile like some of the members where they can explain all the subtleties within the sound/music. All I can say is the sound/music is so good I seem to be mesmerized with what I’m listing to. I just don’t want to stop listing. [/size]
   
[size=13.0pt]The W5-LE has two headphone jacks, but I’m unable to use both of them at the same time because one is for high impedance and the other is for low. Does anyone know what I can do or purchase to allow me to use both headphone jacks without one listener going deaf while the other is listing at a reasonable volume level.          [/size]
     
  Preferences

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----------



## atomicbob

ultrainferno said:


> I managed to get twenty 2399 Chatham/Tung sol tubes (equals 5998 Tung Sol). 4 are already spoken for so 16 are left, if you're interested pm me for prices and info.
> First come, first serve. I have a USA distributor as well to save on shipping costs.
> 
> U.



PM sent.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
    
  Quote:


pudu said:


> I'd forgotten you'd run with Felix for a while!
> 
> Agreed... it's my favourite non-mostly-naked avatar of yours.


 
   
  To my brothers-in-audio arms: I'll stick Felix in the rotation next opening...


----------



## Pudu

Much obliged.


----------



## Silent One

What, wait...mostly nekkid naked? On what day?!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I managed to get twenty 2399 Chatham/Tung sol tubes (equals 5998 Tung Sol). 4 are already spoken for so 16 are left, if you're interested pm me for prices and info.
> First come, first serve. I have a USA distributor as well to save on shipping costs.
> 
> U.


 
   
  05 Tubes left!


----------



## Pudu

ultrainferno said:


> I managed to get twenty 2399 Chatham/Tung sol tubes (equals 5998 Tung Sol).
> ...
> 10 Tubes left!




 For any of our new woosies (newoosies?), this a very good price on a much coveted tube. At some point everyone wants to take these for a spin. It will take a bit of luck to find these from another reputable seller at anything like this price - there a number of people on ebay asking ridiculous amounts for these things. When I sent Jack Woo a question about tubes a long while back he replied "Tung Sol 5998 is one of the best you can find; however, it is a rare find."

Just don't want anyone to mistakenly miss out on this terrific opportunity that our fiery friend has arranged.


----------



## Yiannis1974

Hello everyone 
   
   
  This is my first post in this forum. I have been reading this thread for a long time and needless to say I was very impressed with Woo Audio amps. About 4 weeks ago and after tons of research, I went ahead and contacted Jack. I ended up ordering the WA3 which got delivered about 2 days ago (I live in the UK). I was so excited to receive the amp but to my huge disappointment, problems turned up as soon as I connected it (as a preamp to my power amplifier).
   
I basically get loud crackling / popping sounds coming from my speakers. This sound is intermittent but irregular (happens between intervals of 30 seconds to 2 minutes). The WA3 volume is at zero and the speakers still emit these sounds. It is worth noting that they are loud enough to be painful to my ears. I can play music and I can hear music just fine but the cracking / popping loud sounds are also there.

 Some more information about how I connected the amplifier:
 Sonos Connect > RCA interconnects > WA3 input
 WA3 output > RCA interconnects > power amplifier inputs
 I am using the Audioengine P4 speakers (banana plugs)

 I made sure the valves were correctly placed and I waited about 5 minutes after switching on the WA3 before switching on the power amplifier.

 I even tried using a different power tube just in case it was that causing a problem (I replaced it with a new 6080 I have). Unfortunately the loud noises were there. 
   
As a last resort I tried disconnecting the amp from the source and the problem persisted. I even swapped the driver tubes and the problem is still there (intermittent crackle / popping from both speakers). 
   
  Strangely, there is no problem when I connect the headphones. They sound wonderful.
   
  Needless to say I am very disappointed, especially after eagerly waiting for the WA3 for 4 weeks.
   
  I am concluding that I have a faulty unit. Unless anyone has some other suggestion?
   
  Many thanks


----------



## rosgr63

Yianni,
   
  Welcome to head fi.
   
  You may have faulty tubes.
  Do you have access to a tube tester?


----------



## Yiannis1974

Hello rosgr63
   
  Thank you very much for your response, I greatly appreciate it . Unfortunately I don't have a tube tester so I would not be able to check.
  I was able to rule out the power tube as I have a spare 6080 (new). I swapped the one supplied by Jack and the problem remained.
   
  I get the loud noises from both speakers when using the WA3 as a pre amp connection while there is no problem when using headphones. I am no expert (far from it) but I am thinking that if the tubes were faulty, I would be getting the same problems when using the headphones?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I managed to get twenty 2399 Chatham/Tung sol tubes (equals 5998 Tung Sol). 4 are already spoken for so 16 are left, if you're interested pm me for prices and info.
> First come, first serve. I have a USA distributor as well to save on shipping costs.
> 
> U.


 
   
  5 tubes left!


----------



## hodgjy

My WA3 is also an extremely noisy amp.  It's just the nature of the WA3, if you ask me.  Lovely amp, but highly disappointing at times.
   
  Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> Hello rosgr63
> 
> Thank you very much for your response, I greatly appreciate it . Unfortunately I don't have a tube tester so I would not be able to check.
> I was able to rule out the power tube as I have a spare 6080 (new). I swapped the one supplied by Jack and the problem remained.
> ...


----------



## Yiannis1974

Hello hodgjy,
   
  I could tolerate the humming as background noise... The problem I am experiencing is something else altogether though. More like sudden loud crackling and popping sounds that are quite uncomfortable to the ears. The music mutes momentarily when they occur...
   
  I wish the problem was just background noise...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sounds like a tube problem


----------



## rosgr63

Yianni,
   
  You are most welcome.
   
  To me the first thing before else is to make sure your tubes are OK.
   
  Do you have a spare set of driver tubes?
   
  It's true, if there was a tube problem the headphones would reveal it.
  But crackling and popping is usually a tube related problem.
   
  There's a few people in UK with nice AVO testers that could test your tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> There's a few people in UK with nice AVO testers that could test your tubes.


 
  I own a few tubes that test OK on my tube tester but also crackle. Maybe the problem could also be dirty pins?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *daverich4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I am using a balanced source but I've not been able to come up with any information on whether the WA22 balanced outs make any difference.


 
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> It is my understanding that the W22 needs a balanced source for full performance but for the output it does not matter what you use since the same level power is available for single ended as well. I would think a re-cable may make more of a different in this situation.


 
   
  John is correct, the output is officially the same SE and balanced. But there are still valid reasons to try a balanced headphone cable out of the WA22:
   

 Some headphones respond better to balanced cabling than others, ie an HD800 improves more than an HD600
 If the headphone has modular cable connections, it's worth a try for the improved ergonomics, customization, and arguably cool looks compared to many stock cables
 Personally I wouldn't bother if the headphone is hardwired but some have reported good results, again it depends on the headphone
 Balanced cable connections don't short-circuit like TRS connections do, so there's no real reason to turn the amp down when plugging/unplugging a balanced-cabled headphone (but I still do)
 
 Balanced audio cables are less noise-prone over long distance runs than SE cables; this is the original justification for their existence
   
   
   
  Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes! A nice view to look at, and nice words to describe it!




   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  X3, bring Felix back!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X3, bring it back!


 
   
  X4


----------



## Silent One

_*Back by popular demand...*_


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> I basically get loud crackling / popping sounds coming from my speakers. This sound is intermittent but irregular (happens between intervals of 30 seconds to 2 minutes). The WA3 volume is at zero and the speakers still emit these sounds. It is worth noting that they are loud enough to be painful to my ears. I can play music and I can hear music just fine but the cracking / popping loud sounds are also there.
> 
> Some more information about how I connected the amplifier:
> Sonos Connect > RCA interconnects > WA3 input
> ...


 
   
  It doesn't sound like a tube issue if the problem won't occur under headphone listening.  
   
  My guesses-- check your speaker wiring very very carefully.  My bet is you're shorting somewhere.  Check the banana plugs, too.  I ditched those ages ago and wired direct to the post.
   
  If your speakers and wires and connectors are 100% perfect, then there's likely a bad solder somewhere inside the amp to the output connectors.  But eliminate all other possibilities first, because Woo QC has been notoriously great (and how often do we get to say that?).


----------



## Clayton SF

From 1:45 minutes into the video, which headphones are these people wearing?
  http://youtu.be/M9D-ry7GDBQ
   
  Screen shot at 2:00 minutes.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> _*Back by popular demand...*_




Woot!


----------



## hodgjy

Senn HD650 and Stax SR-507;
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> From 1:45 minutes into the video, which headphones are these people wearing?
> http://youtu.be/M9D-ry7GDBQ
> 
> Screen shot at 2:00 minutes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> From 1:45 minutes into the video, which headphones are these people wearing?
> http://youtu.be/M9D-ry7GDBQ
> 
> Screen shot at 2:00 minutes.


 





 Well, I'm half way there...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _*Back by popular demand...*_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Senn HD650 and Stax SR-507;


 

 Thanks. What about the guy in the very back row, wearing glasses. I didn't think they used Stax hp in the studio. Cool.


----------



## Silent One

shipsupt has been slowly "Wooing" me toward the Stax-side. Perhaps, I can take baby steps and get into the baby Stax this summer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for making Felix feel at home.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





pudu said:


> For any of our new woosies (newoosies?), this a very good price on a much coveted tube. At some point everyone wants to take these for a spin. It will take a bit of luck to find these from another reputable seller at anything like this price - there a number of people on ebay asking ridiculous amounts for these things. When I sent Jack Woo a question about tubes a long while back he replied "Tung Sol 5998 is one of the best you can find; however, it is a rare find."
> 
> Just don't want anyone to mistakenly miss out on this terrific opportunity that our fiery friend has arranged.


 
   
  And there are just 5 left. (One got cancelled). Tubes are arriving tomorrow, I'll try to get them asap


----------



## I right I

yiannis1974 said:


> Hello hodgjy,
> 
> I could tolerate the humming as background noise... The problem I am experiencing is something else altogether though. More like sudden loud crackling and popping sounds that are quite uncomfortable to the ears. The music mutes momentarily when they occur...
> 
> I wish the problem was just background noise...



Are you RCAs new? I have heard of factory defects in RCAs causing noises like those to which you are referring.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





silent one said:


> shipsupt has been slowly "Wooing" me toward the Stax-side. Perhaps, I can take baby steps and get into the baby Stax this summer.


 
   
  I think you'll find an amazing headphone with the basic STAXes


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, but if I'm not careful I'll be haunted by..._"What if?"_ Rather than enjoying the new purchase, thoughts of upgrades could interfere (dominate?) my listening sessions.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The model SR-009 looms tall like a Skyscraper in Manhattan to a first time visitor who ain't never left Kansas before!


----------



## I right I

I am getting the most annoying metal-on-glass noise out of the tubes of my WA6. I have the stock 5AR4 rectifier and 6GL7s from Woo. Has anyone used tube dampers? Any suggestions as to which ones are effective and which are not? I am contemplating using simple O-rings but I am vain about the look of my toys (at least I'm honest about it) and I would like something more "sexy". Ideas?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





i right i said:


> I am getting the most annoying metal-on-glass noise out of the tubes of my WA6. I have the stock 5AR4 rectifier and 6GL7s from Woo. Has anyone used tube dampers? Any suggestions as to which ones are effective and which are not? I am contemplating using simple O-rings but I am vain about the look of my toys (at least I'm honest about it) and I would like something more "sexy". Ideas?


 
   
  like herbies tube dampers?
   
  http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm


----------



## atomicbob

Does the metal on glass sound occur after 15 to 20 minutes past power on? Tubes exhibit thermal expansion as they warm up and it is not uncommon to get pinged during that time. Then again, some individual tubes are just plain noisy. Others can be pretty quiet. I bought a number of common 6080 / 6AS7G and 6922 for my WA3+, listened and graded them. A few were noisy with respect to residual hum and general noise after warm up.


----------



## Silent One

With my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_, I switched to adapters to run 6SN7 tubes not long after purchase. No 6SN7; 7N7; 7AF7; 5U4G or USAF-596 ever produced noise, hum or other.
   
  It wasn't until I acquired an OTL amp with Power tubes, that I began to experience hum, pop and ping. However, the drive tube and rectifier remain quiet...always.


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> It doesn't sound like a tube issue if the problem won't occur under headphone listening.
> 
> My guesses-- check your speaker wiring very very carefully.  My bet is you're shorting somewhere.  Check the banana plugs, too.  I ditched those ages ago and wired direct to the post.
> 
> If your speakers and wires and connectors are 100% perfect, then there's likely a bad solder somewhere inside the amp to the output connectors.  But eliminate all other possibilities first, because Woo QC has been notoriously great (and how often do we get to say that?).


 

 Hello reeltime and thank you very much for your helpful suggestions. I actually checked the speaker connections and they are fine. I have a small integrated amplifier sitting on the side of the WA3 and I just connected my speakers there to test. I performed the test a number of times to make sure and indeed no problems at all with the speakers and the cables. I think I can safely rule out short circuit issues.
   
  The Tubes have also been tested at a local hi fi shop and they appear fine....


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





i right i said:


> Are you RCAs new? I have heard of factory defects in RCAs causing noises like those to which you are referring.


 

 Hi,
   
  I have completely disconnected the WA3 from the sonos to see what happens. In other words, the only connections are WA3 power and speaker cable connections. The problem remains unchanged sadly. 
   
  One other thing I have noticed is that the woofer cones move slowly in and out (quite a lot of travel). This happens immediately after power up and it continues thereafter. This appears to be a separate issue or it may be connected... who knows.
   
  Speakers are Audioengine P4s by the way. No problems at all when I connect them to the Audioengine N22 or a Pro-ject integrated amp that I have sitting next to each other.
   
  very weird.


----------



## soullinker20

Hi guys! what tubes can you suggest me for the WA7?
   
   
  thank you!


----------



## Yiannis1974

I have finally contacted Jack and asked for an RMA. The WA3 is going back . I have the highest praise for the particular amp so I can only conclude I have been very unlucky. Cost to ship back: $40... Ouch


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





i right i said:


> I am getting the most annoying metal-on-glass noise out of the tubes of my WA6. I have the stock 5AR4 rectifier and 6GL7s from Woo. Has anyone used tube dampers? Any suggestions as to which ones are effective and which are not? I am contemplating using simple O-rings but I am vain about the look of my toys (at least I'm honest about it) and I would like something more "sexy". Ideas?


 
  I used to use the Herbie's halo rings but changed to the Duende Criatura rings and I like them better.
http://www.tubedepot.com/dctuberings.html
   
  You can see them here in my tubes.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I used to use the Herbie's halo rings but changed to the Duende Criatura rings and I like them better.
> http://www.tubedepot.com/dctuberings.html
> 
> You can see them here in my tubes.


 
  WTH? Someone please explain to be in physics or electrical terms how those rings "*[size=x-small]considerably reduce microphonics, distortion and self-oscillation from audio tubes".[/size]*


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> I have finally contacted Jack and asked for an RMA. The WA3 is going back . I have the highest praise for the particular amp so I can only conclude I have been very unlucky. Cost to ship back: $40... Ouch


 
   
  Sorry-- it happens to all of us at one time or another.  Even Woo's lowest entry amps are quiet and shouldn't do what yours is doing.  They are great products (I've owned two and have had wonderful experiences with them).  Hopefully your turnaround is short!


----------



## Todd R

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> WTH? Someone please explain to be in physics or electrical terms how those rings "*[size=x-small]considerably reduce microphonics, distortion and self-oscillation from audio tubes".[/size]*


 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphonics
   
  Since the elements of the tube are in contact with the glass, dampening the glass can reduce the movement of the internal parts of the tube.
   
  Try it next time you listen to a tube amp, lightly tap the glass with your fingernail and you should hear some sound come through the headphones (or speakers).
  Next, put a tube damper or a high temp O ring or some other device on the tube and do it again. The sound from the tap will be much less. Some tubes will ring a lot more than others depending on brand, type and build quality.
   
  You don't have to be tapping on tubes to hear microphonics however. Vibrations from music, transformers and other sources affect tubes.


----------



## john57

tube amps can also benefit from a isolation platform as well.


----------



## GrindingThud

They increase the effective mass of the glass tube envelope, lowering the resonant frequency.  They also, because of both increased mass and plasticity, decrease the amplitude of vibrations of the glass envelope.  These effects can be substantial, especially in the face of a particularly sensitive tube.  I've have a couple tubes that were so microphonic they could pick up a voice converstaion (they were discarded even though they test good).
  Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> WTH? Someone please explain to be in physics or electrical terms how those rings "*[size=x-small]considerably reduce microphonics, distortion and self-oscillation from audio tubes".[/size]*


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





john57 said:


> tube amps can also benefit from a isolation platform as well.


 
   
  I have my tubed phono pre on a gingko cloud.  I can't say I know if the sound is improved.


----------



## Silent One

You know how entertaining photographs are..._for the cashless set, especially._






 Would love to have a look, dminches.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I have my tubed phono pre on a gingko cloud.  I can't say I know if the sound is improved.


 
  If you use the tube amp as a pre-amp to a amp that drives speakers It may be worth a look to decouple the amp from the surface that may be vibrating from sub bass that is being genrated by the speakers as an example. Last week I had a metting with the CAS group at PS audio and Paul explained their new product the PerfectWave PowerBase http://www.psaudio.com/shop/perfectwave-powerbase/
  All made in Boulder,CO as a option along others. Tube amps with thick plates can help and I have added Sorbothane ruber to my amp feet.


----------



## Silent One

john57, thanks for the link. I watched the video with keen interest and want to bring one home, most definitely. Perhaps, this summer. I find it a bit odd, however, PS Audio suggesting two pieces of gears on the same platform - horizontally or vertically. But, if it works.......fine! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  At the meeting, did you get a chance to hear the platform perform?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ooooh looks nice! i like that PWD/Power Base stack in that pic.
   
  maybe a few years down the road....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ooooh looks nice! i like that PWD/Power Base stack in that pic.
> 
> maybe a few years down the road....


 
   
  I know, huh?! Wished I'd seen his post and the vid 3 hours ago, then I could have caught him before bedtime.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I gotta wait ALL the way 'til tomorrow to get an answer.


----------



## I right I

dubstep girl said:


> like herbies tube dampers?
> 
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm


That's what I'm thinking of.


----------



## I right I

ben_r_ said:


> WTH? Someone please explain to be in physics or electrical terms how those rings "*considerably reduce microphonics, distortion and self-oscillation from audio tubes".*



Did you switch because they offer more dampening or they look better?


----------



## john57

Not only I hear a bit of the Power Base in operation but how they are made on the technician station. Their DAC's and power plants (AC regenerators) are also quite good. PS Audio DAC's are upgradable once they come out with a new processor board. PS Audio has a very nice engineering department which takes up almost half of the headquarters. PS Audio have two sound rooms one small and one large. I really enjoy listening to their engineering department fun 3D speaker project in the small room.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Not only I hear a bit of the Power Base in operation but how they are made on the technician station. Their DAC's and power plants (AC regenerators) are also quite good. PS Audio DAC's are upgradable once they come out with a new processor board. PS Audio has a very nice engineering department which takes up almost half of the headquarters. PS Audio have two sound rooms one small and one large. I really enjoy listening to their engineering department fun 3D speaker project in the small room.


 
   
  So, you are up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 after all! In keeping with the whole Cullen Circuits lineage, my W4S box is also upgradable in the same manner. What component did you hear stacked on top of the Power Base? I'm really excited about this - should be no mystery really, if you seen the Maple I've been bringing home (with more still to come unless...). 
   
  Still don't understand the suggestion of two components being placed on the platform without them interfering with one another...help me understand this. Thanks!


----------



## migasson

White Stripes, "Elephant" on LP + WA22 + LCD-2 =


----------



## Dubstep Girl

migasson said:


> White Stripes, "Elephant" on LP + WA22 + LCD-2 =




+1 

WA6-SE though


----------



## migasson

@dubstep girl... Touché but hey, I've no complaints.. We're on the same side


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @dubstep girl... Touché
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   




   
   
  ive been considering WA22 for over a year now, but can't get myself to do it, especially since i haven't heard WA22 yet.


----------



## Pudu

DG, first why are you still up  . 

But more importantly have you ever posted your take on Beyer vs Senn - with reference to your collection of amps? I would be interested.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pudu said:


> DG, first why are you still up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  oh my sleep sched is really bad, i'm always up late.
   
  oooh no...show linky plz, maybe i haven't checked it out yet


----------



## Pudu

dubstep girl said:


> pudu said:
> 
> 
> > DG, first why are you still up  .
> ...




On second thought... I think you need sleep more than I need that information  .


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So, you are up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have a PS Audio PWD and PWT (transport) on a PowerBase.  I agree, it does not make sense to have multiple components on the PB, especially the transport as it is mechanical with moving parts.  However, there is an overall improvement in the sound when the two are in operation.  Plus, I often use the PWD alone with the PWT off.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





pudu said:


> For any of our new woosies (newoosies?), this a very good price on a much coveted tube. At some point everyone wants to take these for a spin. It will take a bit of luck to find these from another reputable seller at anything like this price - there a number of people on ebay asking ridiculous amounts for these things. When I sent Jack Woo a question about tubes a long while back he replied "Tung Sol 5998 is one of the best you can find; however, it is a rare find."
> 
> Just don't want anyone to mistakenly miss out on this terrific opportunity that our fiery friend has arranged.


 
   
  4 tubes left!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I enjoyed the previously Headphone Love Story...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Deep, from out of the Wood, only to be saved by...Wapiti?! Long time no see.




   
  Man, great to hear from you, thanks for looking after me!


----------



## musicman59

i right i said:


> Did you switch because they offer more dampening or they look better?



 
 Both.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So, you are up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  [size=medium]The idea of the Power base is to isolate the equipment from the desk or shelf.  If you are using playback equipment like speakers or monitors. I can place my hands on the desk, chair and even the walls and feel the vibrations from the music. The ideal of stacking two components can certainly help. If you put a light component like a DAC first and put on top something a bit heavier on top you could coupled the mass of the two units together to provide some additional damping and it really depends on the two components in question. Both then can benefit from the AC noise filtering from the Power Base and shorter interconnects between them. The tuned Sorbothane supports on the PS Power Base can handle up to 100lbs plus the 20lb floating plate. [/size]


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, I see their thinking now. While I don't use speakers yet, I'd probably prefer to use only a single component all the same. I like the idea and glad you stepped in to share.


----------



## john57

Long ago when I was first starting out I used to live in an all demand electric house with a sheep dog name Abbey and when she runs into the house my Thorens turntable needle will jump up and down. Even though the Thorens turntable has a floating platform on springs it could not handle the low frequency oscillations when the dog runs back from outside into the house then to the living room.  This was partly due to the resonance frequency of the floating turntable platform and the house floor centers being wider creating a lower resonance point for the vibrations that reach the turntable, like a bit of a trampoline effect.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 4 tubes left!


 
   
  Make that 2!


----------



## migasson

Listening to Iron Maiden.. Live After Death, Japanese pressing just brilliant thru LCD-2s can't wait to replay it when my Black Dragon cable and Treasures arrives


----------



## atomicbob

@migasson: wish I could hear that combination! Looking forward to receiving a WA7 in a few days. Will be interesting to hear the T90 with the WA7.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Make that 2!


 
  Rock on!


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Sorry-- it happens to all of us at one time or another.  Even Woo's lowest entry amps are quiet and shouldn't do what yours is doing.  They are great products (I've owned two and have had wonderful experiences with them).  Hopefully your turnaround is short!


 
   
  Greetings reeltime and thank you for empathising . The amp is now back and I am faced with the dilema: Do I ask for a refund or do I take back the repaired WA3. I would love to have a working, noise-less WA3 serving as a preamp to my digital amplifier. After my experience though... I feel a bit nervous. I have already paid an expensive shipping to return the WA3. Will I get a problem-free unit back... Confidence is a bit compromised I guess.
   
  How is the general user feedback regarding the WA3? Noise-less and RFI problem free? Or the opposite?
   
  I know this is probably a long shot but if you have any experience / knowledge regarding the above, I would greatly appreciate your input (or anyone else who might have some experience).
   
  Many thanks


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> Greetings reeltime and thank you for empathising . The amp is now back and I am faced with the dilema: Do I ask for a refund or do I take back the repaired WA3. I would love to have a working, noise-less WA3 serving as a preamp to my digital amplifier. After my experience though... I feel a bit nervous. I have already paid an expensive shipping to return the WA3. Will I get a problem-free unit back... Confidence is a bit compromised I guess.
> 
> How is the general user feedback regarding the WA3? Noise-less and RFI problem free? Or the opposite?
> 
> ...


 
   
  In case of confusion.. the WA3 is back at Woo Audio ...


----------



## migasson

@atomicbob.. Let me know how that WA7 goes with the T90.. You know I'm a bit of a Beyer fan


----------



## atomicbob

yiannis1974 said:


> How is the general user feedback regarding the WA3? Noise-less and RFI problem free? Or the opposite?
> 
> I know this is probably a long shot but if you have any experience / knowledge regarding the above, I would greatly appreciate your input (or anyone else who might have some experience).
> 
> Many thanks




With high impedance, efficient headphones, a slight residual mains hum may be heard when in a very quiet room. With my favorite 6AS7G in my WA3+ I can hear a little hum on Beyerdynamic T90 during pauses in the music. It is quite low. I built an in-line cable adapter which plugs into the WA3+ and the headphones plug into the cable adapter. In this adapter two 100 ohm precision resistors are paralleled to the left and right channels. This slight additional load to the T90 300 ohm impedance lowered the residual hum to inaudible for me. I have other headphone amps and will probably buy and sell more but the WA3+ is special. It will always remain in my collection. Note: I do not have the preamp output option.


----------



## hodgjy

This is also the case with my WA3.
   
  Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> *With high impedance, efficient headphones, a slight residual mains hum may be heard when in a very quiet room. *With my favorite 6AS7G in my WA3+ I can hear a little hum on Beyerdynamic T90 during pauses in the music. It is quite low. I built an in-line cable adapter which plugs into the WA3+ and the headphones plug into the cable adapter. In this adapter two 100 ohm precision resistors are paralleled to the left and right channels. This slight additional load to the T90 300 ohm impedance lowered the residual hum to inaudible for me. I have other headphone amps and will probably buy and sell more but the WA3+ is special. It will always remain in my collection. Note: I do not have the preamp output option.


----------



## migasson

Moon Black Dragon cable for my LCD-2's has arrived yay!!


----------



## Silent One

Well alright, man...hook it up!


----------



## migasson

Hehe.. Listening RIGHT NOW!! Muddy Waters, Folk Singer, 180 gram.. Yeah, um .. WOW! Improvements? Separation, clarity, and tighter more substantial bass very happy right now awaiting my Black Treasures next.....


----------



## Silent One

Great high-lights!


----------



## migasson

I mainly did it so I can run fully balanced, the gains are definitely worth it, my WA22 is now maxed


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Make that 2!


 
   
  Would be great to find a USA located buyer for these last two 2399 tubes. (19 tubes go to the US and 1 goes to Belgium)
  Hope to close this buy very soon so I can send all the buyers the needed information


----------



## SeeHear

Just got a new matched pair of power tubes for my WA2!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ooooh tung sol 6080wb, great tube!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

So...after reading through this (and my other) threads here I have pulled the trigger and will be receiving my first headphone amp this Friday from Jack Woo, a WA22.  I'm very excited.  I will post pics once the amp arrives!


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> With high impedance, efficient headphones, a slight residual mains hum may be heard when in a very quiet room. With my favorite 6AS7G in my WA3+ I can hear a little hum on Beyerdynamic T90 during pauses in the music. It is quite low. I built an in-line cable adapter which plugs into the WA3+ and the headphones plug into the cable adapter. In this adapter two 100 ohm precision resistors are paralleled to the left and right channels. This slight additional load to the T90 300 ohm impedance lowered the residual hum to inaudible for me. I have other headphone amps and will probably buy and sell more but the WA3+ is special. It will always remain in my collection. Note: I do not have the preamp output option.


 

 Thank you very much for sharing your experience with the WA3+. Much appreciated
   
  Yiannis


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> This is also the case with my WA3.


 

 Thank you very much 
   
  Decided to keep the WA3.. I just hope it will work fine when I get it back from Jack
   
  Best
  Yiannis


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm watching very 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




closely.


----------



## Todd R

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> So...after reading through this (and my other) threads here I have pulled the trigger and will be receiving my first headphone amp this Friday from Jack Woo, a WA22.  I'm very excited.  I will post pics once the amp arrives!


 
   
  How long did it take to be shipped from the time you ordered it?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

It was pretty fast.  I placed the order on Feb. 5th and he shipped the amp on Friday, February 22nd, so just over 2 weeks.


----------



## migasson

I love my WA22.. You'll be very, very happy!


----------



## SeeHear

Dead quiet!  My faith is restored - For now, anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  My 2399s died a disappointingly premature (and noisy) death and the stock 6080WAs (which were working fine when I rolled in the 2399s) made really nasty noises when I rolled them back in.  So, I ordered these 6080WBs and crossed my fingers.  *Big happy sigh* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I've only about an hour on them (plus 30 minutes or so warm up)  but they are sounding really good (and better with each successive track).  I do miss the bass of the 2399s, but the noise/micro-phonics had gotten to be too much.  The top end is really natural and musical with lots of air.  The triangle during the guitar solo on "Slide" is as clear and timbre-ly accurate  as I've ever heard it.  Vocals sound great; it's as if Corrine is here, singing to me.  These were a great upgrade.  If I had to describe them in one word, it would be "uncongested."  Everything from jazz to rock to funk, I can hear the instruments, not just the music.  Piano sounded so real - none of the "normal" distortion I've often heard.  On N.E.R.D.'s Truth or Dare, it is plain why Kelis was the go-to hook girl of the time.  Pharrell's production is still holding up all these years later...  The snare on Run to the Sun sounds very "right."  Very easy to hear the layers, but they are definitely a cohesive whole... That won't let me turn off and go to sleep!
   
  I've been afraid to see if the 6080WA's fart (last week) killed my tweeter, but now the WA2 is sounding so good through my HD650s, I guess I have to turn on the power amp and see if my ADAM Compact MK3 survived...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Maybe tomorrow, I have to get some sleep.  If they did survive, I'll be up all night listening; if they didn't I'll be up all night plotting how to upgrade replace them.
   
  Damn! Tia Fuller's horn sounds so sweet!
  Quote: 





seehear said:


> Just got a new matched pair of power tubes for my WA2!


----------



## Ultrainferno

2399 group buy complete. Thanks everyone!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 2399 group buy complete. Thanks everyone!


----------



## GrindingThud

Ongoing mod/experiment with CCS in my WA3+. http://www.head-fi.org/t/94853/woo3-modified/225#post_9194972


----------



## groovyd

Just ordered a WA7 fireflies in plain aluminum color... will be my first real tube amp.  excited to see what all the fuss is about.  It will be replacing a HeadRoom Ultra Desktop Amp which works great but isn't anywhere near as cool.


----------



## SeeHear

Quote: 





groovyd said:


> Just ordered a WA7 fireflies in plain aluminum color... will be my first real tube amp.  excited to see what all the fuss is about.  It will be replacing a HeadRoom Ultra Desktop Amp which works great but isn't anywhere near as cool.


 

 Welcome to the fray!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





seehear said:


> Welcome to the fray!


 
   
  +1


----------



## solserenade

Welcome.


----------



## Clayton SF

Welcome to the WWW.
  The Wonderful World of Woo.
_*Wooworld*_.


----------



## Pudu

Welcome to WAAOU.

Sorry about your other threads.


----------



## Clayton SF

Yay! My new Woo 800000001 SE!
   
  This is great.
  I got my user's manual in front of me...
   
  Let's see:
  This one for HI impedance, this one for LO.
  This one for middle of the road.
  This one for 600 ohms, this one 32.
  This one for the HD650.
  This one for the D7000
  OH! and this one for HD800.
  Oooo Beyer T1.
   
  WHAT NO BALANCED JACKS?


----------



## atomicbob

@migasson:
   
   
  Received my WA7. Here are initial thoughts.
   
  So far I have listened with both hifiman HE-500 and Beyerdynamic T90. Things are still changing as the stock Sovtek tubes settle in. Initial Impressions after 6 hrs:
   
  Silent background
  Solid bass with clarity, impressive transient capability
  That tube magic midrange
  Impressive clarity on the high frequencies
   
  I was on the fence about selling the HE-500. They are competent but never really sparkled on my other amps (WA3+, V200, O2, DAC-1.) They seem to have come to life on the WA7. They stay while I listen longer and evaluate this combination.
   
  As each to his own on their search for sonic utopia, I must say that if I was told I could only have the WA7 and the Beyer T90, I would indeed be happy to listen to my library, enjoying the music quite well. In fact the danger of this combination is losing oneself in the music and forgetting time. A reminder that my preferences and auditory canal resonances are such that given the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 I would choose the HD600. YMMV.


----------



## migasson

@atomicbob - really interesting impressions. I've found, now that I'm 95% of the way to exactly what I want ( awaiting my Black Treasures CV181's) with the WA22/ LCD-2's, there are still times when I miss my T90's. But the LCD's I will never part with unless I can stump up the cash for some LCD-3's!! I've also found it hard, now that im accustomed to this particular sound, hard to adjust to others. However, maybe tempted to get another Beyer, or perhaps Grado PS-500's as a different sonic signature. That's the great thing about 'phones, it is financially feasible to own more then one pair! Unlike loudspeakers


----------



## groovyd

Curious how does something like the WA7 compare to a solid state HeadRoom Ultra Desktop Amp for example using T5p's?  Not sure if I should sell my Headroom or take that to use at work with the T5p and invest in some LCD2 or 3s, or even the T1s?


----------



## atomicbob

@migasson: you must be having a great time listening to the aural delights in your listening lab! I don't remember if you had heard HE-500 to compare with the LCD2. If so your impressions would be interesting.


----------



## Taliesin

I'm looking at getting either the wa2/wa6se or a bifrost+Lyr to pair with either a hd700 or hd800
What do you guys recommend


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the HD 800 is superior to the HD 700.
   
  both the WA2 and WA6-SE do a good job with the HD 800
   
  this thread compares/describes/explains both of them really well using the HD 800 as reference.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/555749/sibling-rivalry-the-woo-wa2-vs-the-woo-wa6se-review-posted-update-6-3-2011


----------



## Silent One

Will we learn what type of music you listen to and your listening habits (how/where/when you consume music)?


----------



## Taliesin

silent one said:


> Will we learn what type of music you listen to and your listening habits (how/where/when you consume music)?



I will be using at home. Listen to music/movies for at least 3-6 hours every day.
I listen to nearly every kind of music bar metal and jazz.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well......if you don't dig Jazz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't help you. Just 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 funnin'! Whatever kind of music you be listening to, do you listen low to moderate volume most (all?) of the time? You want your Woo soft, sweet & dreamy or dynamic and hard hitting when the material calls for it?
   
  From my view - it is a humble one - a few answers and one Woo. The link Dubstep Girl posted shall take you far...


----------



## migasson

@atomicbob.. Yeah too much fun for sure! I keep digging around my record collection.. And trying to restrict my buying of new vinyl!! Haven't heard the HE-500.. Should get around to it one day @Silent One.. My system has given me a new appreciation of Jazz. Was never really a fan before then


----------



## shipsupt

My vote would be for the WA6SE with the HD-800, as far as Woo gear goes.  Can't compare with Schitt.  Skip the HD-700.
  Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I'm looking at getting either the wa2/wa6se or a bifrost+Lyr to pair with either a hd700 or hd800
> What do you guys recommend


----------



## Ultrainferno

I liked the HD700 with the WA2. A lot!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ze 2399 tubes, zey have arrived!
   
   

   
  Now I'll test them then they ship!


----------



## atomicbob

Most Excellent! Thank-you for the update U.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Ze 2399 tubes, zey have arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Nice%20floor%20tiles!


----------



## GloryUprising

Folks with WA6-SE and 596 tubes, do you find your fuses blowing very prematurely?
  
 I am currently using 2amp fuses and they seem to blow when the 596 is plugged in, but not when the Princess Sophia or with my 5R4GY.  I'm wondering if maybe I should be using a 3 amp fuse (the Woo Audio manual says 2 or 3 amps are both usable).  If anyone with a 596 can pull out their fuse to check what amp rating yours is would be appreciated.
  
 The fuse blows within 5 second of power up when using the 596 and it seems like my 596 top pins are darker then I remember them being so I'm wondering if i got a bad tube.... 
   
 what do you guys think?  
  
 I sent Jack an email I hope he gets back to me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ive never had a problem with fuses on any of my tubes, 596,  274b, gz34, or any other.
   
  you might have a bad tube or maybe an issue with the amp, i'd send jack an email about it.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

So far I have put 100's of hours on my WA 22, and most of the recent ones using the 596 in combination with 5998 power tubes & a variety of driver tubes without blowing a single fuse... haven't had a look at the top pins recently, but remember they were pretty dull & dark looking when I first installed the adapter (Woo's)
   
  Hope you can figure it out, let us know how it goes! P.S.: I had some trouble to get the top plugs to seat correctly on the top pins (secure fit without pushing too hard to get them in...) so that's one thing I'd check (don't know enough about electronics if that kind of loose connection may cause the fuse to blow)


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ive never had a problem with fuses on any of my tubes, 596,  274b, gz34, or any other.
> 
> you might have a bad tube or maybe an issue with the amp, i'd send jack an email about it.


 
   
  Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> So far I have put 100's of hours on my WA 22, and most of the recent ones using the 596 in combination with 5998 power tubes & a variety of driver tubes without blowing a single fuse... haven't had a look at the top pins recently, but remember they were pretty dull & dark looking when I first installed the adapter (Woo's)
> 
> Hope you can figure it out, let us know how it goes! P.S.: I had some trouble to get the top plugs to seat correctly on the top pins (secure fit without pushing too hard to get them in...) so that's one thing I'd check (don't know enough about electronics if that kind of loose connection may cause the fuse to blow)


 
   
  Thanks for the tip guys, do you happen to know what amp rating are your fuses?  I'm about to head to ratshack to get a 3amp one to see if that helps.


----------



## shipsupt

That is definitely sounding like a bad tube.  I'd be careful running it until you can confirm otherwise as it may be heading toward a more spectacular failure.  

 Do you have access to a tube tester?
   
  Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Folks with WA6-SE and 596 tubes, do you find your fuses blowing very prematurely?
> 
> I am currently using 2amp fuses and they seem to blow when the 596 is plugged in, but not when the Princess Sophia or with my 5R4GY.  I'm wondering if maybe I should be using a 3 amp fuse (the Woo Audio manual says 2 or 3 amps are both usable).  If anyone with a 596 can pull out their fuse to check what amp rating yours is would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Folks with WA6-SE and 596 tubes, do you find your fuses blowing very prematurely?
> 
> I am currently using 2amp fuses and they seem to blow when the 596 is plugged in, but not when the Princess Sophia or with my 5R4GY.  I'm wondering if maybe I should be using a 3 amp fuse (the Woo Audio manual says 2 or 3 amps are both usable).  If anyone with a 596 can pull out their fuse to check what amp rating yours is would be appreciated.
> 
> ...


 
   
_WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ + USAF-596 (_The Mighty 596_) + Furutech 3A fuse? Never! J-Wu will get back to you, no doubt. Hope you get it sorted.


----------



## grokit

Isn't it normal for the 596 to darken somewhat at first from flashing?


----------



## Silent One

Mine only got Silver on the bottom fifth but the glass largely remains clear. Whereby, Miss Sophia _just up and got dark...immediately...all over._


----------



## senson

Another WA6SE + 596 user here +6DR7, 6FD7 6EW7, I've never had any problem.
  Jack will reply pretty quick, he has very good customer service


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Mine only got Silver on the bottom fifth but the glass largely remains clear. Whereby, Miss Sophia _just up and got dark...immediately...all over._


 
  +1....Silver Surfer on the bottom with no darkening for the Mighty 596!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> +1....Silver Surfer on the bottom with no darkening for the Mighty 596!


 
   
  +2
   
  maybe a very small amount near the top pins, but nothing bad. 
   
  my sophia is dark however, at first i thought it was bad, but i guess its normal for it.


----------



## Todd R

Got the shipping notice for my WA6-SE last night


----------



## shipsupt

I'll bet we can guess what face you'll make when it arrives? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Quote: 





todd r said:


> Got the shipping notice for my WA6-SE last night


----------



## reeltime

Be careful about putting a larger amp fuse in your amp.  You're allowing the amp to draw more current than it's designed to-- before the fuse blows.  You can do damage to the other components inside the amp which aren't rated for the higher capacity.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Be careful about putting a larger amp fuse in your amp.  You're allowing the amp to draw more current than it's designed to-- before the fuse blows.  You can do damage to the other components inside the amp which aren't rated for the higher capacity.


 
   
  I went back to 2 amp.  The only reason I thought to try a 3 amp was because the owner's manual says 2 amp or 3 amp was acceptable.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> That is definitely sounding like a bad tube.  I'd be careful running it until you can confirm otherwise as it may be heading toward a more spectacular failure.
> 
> Do you have access to a tube tester?


 
   
  No tube tester here. 
   
  Jack did respond to my email this morning with the general effect of "that's normal", but I don't think he read the WHOLE email to include the part about the fuse blowing in 5 seconds...
   
  ..I'll keep you all posted.


----------



## Silent One

The concern over using a higher rated fuse is warranted. However, in my particular case, I approached Jack - he sat me down, made me comfortable._ And I threw that bad boy in..._


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The concern over using a higher rated fuse is warranted. However, in my particular case, I approached Jack - he sat me down, made me comfortable._ And I threw that bad boy in..._


 
  That is what I like to see, you threw caution to the Woo!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Be careful about putting a larger amp fuse in your amp.  You're allowing the amp to draw more current than it's designed to-- before the fuse blows.  You can do damage to the other components inside the amp which aren't rated for the higher capacity.


 
   
  +1
   
  Jack has the WA6SE rated nominally at 44 watts.  At 110/120V, that amounts to like 0.37 A.  If a 2A fuse blew, something's got shorted; need to talk to Jack right away.  Change to a 3A fuse will make the situation worse.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, he made sure I was informed and I took the fuse and opportunity to run widit!


----------



## migasson

Sonic Youth "Sonic Nurse" on 33 and a third.. WA22 and LCD-2's


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quick non Woo related question. What would be considered too much power for the LCD-2 and He-500 per channel? 5? 6? 8?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Jack has the WA6SE rated nominally at 44 watts.  At 110/120V, that amounts to like 0.37 A.  If a 2A fuse blew, something's got shorted; need to talk to Jack right away.  Change to a 3A fuse will make the situation worse.


 
  Reasonable thinking, but the inrush current is much higher than 44 watts.  This is why the higher fuse rating.  In particular, the inrush current once the amp's soft start feature is off is considerable. 
   
  Given that Woo states 3 amp is fine I would not hesitate to use a 3 amp fuse.  However, I believe the OP has an issue which needs to be addressed.


----------



## shipsupt

And it seems clear that the issue is that tube!!  Am I missing something?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my new HE-500 with WA6-SE! 
   
  drives them very well, was worried it wouldn't be able to drive them well at first, but it gets loud at just 9/10 o clock, 11 o clock being very loud.


----------



## radiolight

dubstep girl said:


> my new HE-500 with WA6-SE!
> 
> drives them very well, was worried it wouldn't be able to drive them well at first, but it gets loud at just 9/10 o clock, 11 o clock being very loud.




Dubstep girl,

Looks like the HE-500 is plugged into the high impedance port. Is that intentional? Does it sound better?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





radiolight said:


> Dubstep girl,
> 
> Looks like the HE-500 is plugged into the high impedance port. Is that intentional? Does it sound better?


 
   
  yes, i think they sound pretty similar, but the high impedance has more gain and seems to make the sound slightly fuller over the lower impedance which is more neutralish, might just be in my head, or might be too subtle to notice, so i just use the high impedance anyways.


----------



## longbowbbs

DSG, it is clearly all about the mighty 596!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my new HE-500 with WA6-SE!
> 
> drives them very well, was worried it wouldn't be able to drive them well at first, but it gets loud at just 9/10 o clock, 11 o clock being very loud.


 
   
  How are those HE-500 sound with WA6SE?  Hmm...I got my Glenn's 596 adapter's antennae facing backward (opposite from yours).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my new HE-500 with WA6-SE!
> 
> drives them very well, was worried it wouldn't be able to drive them well at first, but it gets loud at just 9/10 o clock, 11 o clock being very loud.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Sko0byDoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> How are those HE-500 sound with WA6SE?  Hmm...I got my Glenn's 596 adapter's antennae facing backward (opposite from yours).


 
   
  My antennae face @ 4 o'clock......we're unique like that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps, fine-tuning for radio signals in outer space.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> How are those HE-500 sound with WA6SE?  Hmm...I got my Glenn's 596 adapter's antennae facing backward (opposite from yours).


 
   
  i really like the HE-500 sound with the WA6-SE, sounds very good, good soundstage, lots of air and detail while having a really dynamic sound, i don't know if theres better synergy to be had with other amps, but i really like how it sounds (anyone hear HE-500 with WA22 yet?), well driven and with not too much coloration. the WA6-SE keeps surprising me, it really is an amazing amp. the WA2 unfortunately cannot drive the HE-500 very well.
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> DSG, it is clearly all about the mighty 596!


 
   
  yes the 596 is an awesome tube, sophia doesn't get much time in the WA6-SE anymore.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My antennae face @ 4 o'clock......we're unique like that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Lol, I was just wondered "Did I plug it in the wrong way?"...D'oh...no funny burning smell though.  May be just a different batch.


----------



## regular.guy

Hi wooians,
  I had recently purchased a WA-5 with all the capacitor trimmings with the stock tubes (shuguang 300b-98, shuguang 247a, ge 6sn7).  Upon first firing it up, I had great expectations, as it was better than my Antique Sound Lab MG-head Mk III without any break in and, of course, the great professional reviews and on Head-fi, but I can't say I am happy with the sound.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It has about 150 hours on it, not just on, but music running through it, which is the break in time that the manual claims is needed.  The amp seems to lack upper end extension, deep bass, holography and bloom, all of which, from what I have read, the WA-5 should have.  Cranking the volume can get me the bass/slam, but one of the reasons I bought the Woo was for low volume satisfaction.  
   
  Purchasing tube upgrades, immediately after spending over $4,000 already, was not what I had in mind.  Perhaps this is just the single ended 300b "sound" and what I'm hearing is the "end game".  Don't get me wrong, however, I am a "bottlehead" and have other single ended devices.  Please tell me that the Woo will continue to evolve and improve.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

upgrade the tubes


----------



## Todd R

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my new HE-500 with WA6-SE!
> 
> drives them very well, was worried it wouldn't be able to drive them well at first, but it gets loud at just 9/10 o clock, 11 o clock being very loud.


 
   
  Hey Girl, 
  How's the amp drive the HE-500 on the stock tube set? I read somewhere you get a lot more power with the adapters and the 6GL7 type tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





todd r said:


> Hey Girl,
> How's the amp drive the HE-500 on the stock tube set? I read somewhere you get a lot more power with the adapters and the 6GL7 type tubes.


 
   
  rolled in the stock sylvania 6ew7 (the 6de7 will be roughly the same gain) and shuguang 274b to test it out for ya. 
   
  umm normal listening volume is 10-11 o clock or so with noon being loud and 1 o clock being too much. 
   
  it drives them good, no problems with bass or anything. of course the sound isn't as good as with upgrades, but its more than enough to drive them. almost any headphones works out of the WA6-SE, never needing to go past noon to become very loud.
   
  if you feel like you want more gain without spending money on the 6GL7, try the 6DR7, they're pretty good though they tend to be a little too lush at times


----------



## Todd R

Good to know, thanks. 
  My amp should be here about Tuesday. Anyone try the 6SE with IEM's? Is it  quiet enough?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





todd r said:


> Good to know, thanks.
> My amp should be here about Tuesday. Anyone try the 6SE with IEM's? Is it  quiet enough?


 
   
  gratz.
   
  yes, it is quiet enough for IEM use, there is noise, but only past when the gain surpasses the amount needed to drive IEM's. 
   
  just tested it on mine (Monster Turbine Gold), and its silent when music is playing, there is a slight hiss noise when no music is playing, but its not really noticeable, and that is at the slightly over normal listening volume level on the gain knob.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Hi wooians,
> I had recently purchased a WA-5 with all the capacitor trimmings with the stock tubes (shuguang 300b-98, shuguang 247a, ge 6sn7).  Upon first firing it up, I had great expectations, as it was better than my Antique Sound Lab MG-head Mk III without any break in and, of course, the great professional reviews and on Head-fi, but I can't say I am happy with the sound.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  i thought wa5 sound pretty amazing with just stock tubes.  what headphones are you using?  what source are you feeling the wa5?  from my experience, i hate ultrasone with wa5, from hfi780 to ed8 to signature pro.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i thought wa5 sound pretty amazing with just stock tubes.  what headphones are you using?  what source are you feeling the wa5?  from my experience, i hate ultrasone with wa5, from hfi780 to ed8 to signature pro.


 
   
  i had ultrasone pro 900 with the WA6-SE and they didn't sound too impressive either


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i had ultrasone pro 900 with the WA6-SE and they didn't sound too impressive either


 
   
   
  i tried ed10 too with wa5 and .....


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Purchasing tube upgrades, immediately after spending over $4,000 already, was not what I had in mind.  Perhaps this is just the single ended 300b "sound" and what I'm hearing is the "end game".  Don't get me wrong, however, I am a "bottlehead" and have other single ended devices.  Please tell me that the Woo will continue to evolve and improve.


 
   
   
  I have the WA5LE, and I found the sound decent with the stock tubes, but not overly impressive.  Upgrading the tubes made a big difference.  I did a ton of research, so here's how I went and why:
   
  Rectifier: EML 5U4G Mesh
   
  This was the easiest choice.  I would really have gone for a vintage set of rectifiers, but I was very concerned about matching them.  I do wonder how the amp would perform with a pair of GZ34s or a pair of 596s, but that's a big cost investment that may or may not pay off.  Nearly every high-end review of the WA5 was based on the EML mesh, so I felt safe in that decision.
   
  Driver: PSVane 181 TII
   
  This is my weakest area for assessment.  Having owned a WA6 before, I was hard pressed to find drivers I really enjoyed.  The options aren't all that many here-- It came down to the Sophia, which I couldn't find many reviews about-- or the PSVane.  The black treasures aren't made any longer, and the distributor said she tested the TIIs (Treasure series 2) and found them exceeding the Black Treasures in nearly every way.  The TIIs are not as attractive as the Black Treasure, they are silver coated on the inside with an orange base.  But they sound clean, and that's my priority when choosing a power tube.  I don't want the power tube to overdrive or add too much to the sound characteristic, I prefer them to be relatively transparent with a lot of pure power for my massive HD800 bass drivers.  The PSVane seems to do that.
   
  Output: EML 300B mesh
   
  There is more conflicting information on the 300B choices out there than anything else.  Part of the problem is that the most recent thorough 300B shootout was done in 2002!  Many of today's best 300B tubes on the market weren't available back then, and some in the shootout are no longer made.  It comes down to two camps-- original Western Electric sound-- warm, not too much bass, but very very clean--- or the modern sound-- new designs which extend the bass deep, but in the process lose some of the WE magic.  Tubes in the WE camp include the Western Electric itself (out of my price range at $2000 and up) the PSVane replicas, KR Audio, JJ Electronic, EML 300B Mesh (this one's actually more in the middle) and a few others-- In the modern camp-- Sophia Royal Princess, Sophia Carbon Princess, EML 300B XLS (EML's foray into carbon), Takatsuki 300B.  
   
  Of them all-- the Western is the sure-fire bet.  It's tested, will last a long time, but will cost you the price of your amp to get a pair, if you can find them at all.  They are going to production again, SUPPOSEDLY, in 2014.  God knows if its true.  The next best by many accounts is the Takatsuki, but find a distributor-- you have to go through Japan to get them and they cost $1600-$1800.  No thanks.  The EML 300B XLS and the Sophia Royal Princess are genuine contenders, they are supposed to produce a deeper bass than the WE 300B.  But they lose a little musicality in doing so, if you believe the reviews.   AVVT was another highly rated-- but they're out of business.
   
  I chose the EML 300B mesh because I knew it would blow out the soundstage on my HD800, without sacrificing detail.  Mesh plates (true mesh plates-- not Sophia mesh plates, which are stamped) are well known to produce a massive soundstage, and from my experience with these, that is most certainly true.  This is a hybrid design-- it's based on the Western Electric 300B, but it is not a replica-- it's EML's own design.  Also one respected reviewer whom I often agree with puts the EML 300B mesh above all other 300Bs except the Western Electric.  They are amazing to my ear, but I do wonder if the Royal Princess or the EML 300B XLS would dig the bass in deeper.  I'm happy with the EML 300B Mesh, at any rate.  The EML 300B mesh is gorgeous to look at, but under power-- almost no glow! 
   
  One other word-- be very careful when pairing tubes with your WA5, the space is very very very tight between the output and driver sockets.  Not all large bottles will fit together.  My EML 300B mesh and PSVane 181's have an index card's thickness between them.  They fit, but barely.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Purchasing tube upgrades, immediately after spending over $4,000 already, was not what I had in mind.  Perhaps this is just the single ended 300b "sound" and what I'm hearing is the "end game".  Don't get me wrong, however, I am a "bottlehead" and have other single ended devices.  Please tell me that the Woo will continue to evolve and improve.


 
   
  This $4,000 amp should have sounded like what you had in mind. It is just unfortunate that it doesn't. But I believe you are in possession of a instrument that is capable of becoming the best ever and will eventually "fit" your music needs. This amp's music capabilities must be explored and tailored to your taste. This amp would have satisfied someone else's "sound" but since it doesn't seem to come close to your expectations, alternative tubes may bring you there. Subjective impressions can be a complicated matter.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

If there's one thing I have learned since I got into the whole headfi thing, spending increasing amounts of money (not quite into your territory) is that cost does not necessarily correlate to musical enjoyment, and increasing cost does not correlate to increasing enjoyment (not just diminishing returns, but even none to negative )
   
  In the end it's more about finding what -you like best- rather than -the best-, at whatever price-level you can push for. And while your WA5 may not be the eargasm machine you expected for the price, I'm sure you can tailor it to your enjoyment, as others have already pointed out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Regarding the EML 5U4G Mesh, it was the Original Poster who had problems with the EML Glass ending in premature death. This problem was researched and solved by MOT 2359glenn ( our resident tube guru) by getting the OP to replace the EML with the USAF-596. That's the short version of how the '596' came into prominence here in the first place. 
   
  He (dannie01) and a few other WA5/LE like the sound of _The Mighty 596_ as well. When you've the chance, send dannie01 and musicman59 a PM for their recommendations with this Woo.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Regarding the EML 5U4G Mesh, it was the Original Poster who had problems with the EML Glass ending in premature death. This problem was researched and solved by MOT 2359glenn ( our resident tube guru) by getting the OP to replace the EML with the USAF-596. That's the short version of how the '596' came into prominence here in the first place.


 
   
  Fortunately I've had no problems.  I wonder-- with the 596 being NOS, if finding a good matching pair became a problem for anyone on the 2 rectifier Woo amps?


----------



## Silent One

I guess we gonna find out Monday morning; Monday midday...


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Regarding the EML 5U4G Mesh, it was the Original Poster who had problems with the EML Glass ending in premature death. This problem was researched and solved by MOT 2359glenn ( our resident tube guru) by getting the OP to replace the EML with the USAF-596. That's the short version of how the '596' came into prominence here in the first place.
> 
> He (dannie01) and a few other WA5/LE like the sound of _The Mighty 596_ as well. When you've the chance, send dannie01 and musicman59 a PM for their recommendations with this Woo.


 
   
   
   
  i talked to a local tube shop couple months ago and he told me i can also try some 5z3, of course with an adoptor.  anybody try that?


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


silent one said:


> Regarding the EML 5U4G Mesh, it was the Original Poster who had problems with the EML Glass ending in premature death. This problem was researched and solved by MOT 2359glenn ( our resident tube guru) by getting the OP to replace the EML with the USAF-596. That's the short version of how the '596' came into prominence here in the first place.


 
  I was thinking of trying one in my WA22... are there any concerns? In what amp and/or under what circumstances did the EML fail?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> silent one said:
> ...


 
  Will be fine in the '22.' The aforementioned incident with EML Glass happened only with the WA5/LE and with certain batches of rectifiers from the maker. Haven't any knowledge if either Woo or EML made any changes from 2011.


----------



## torara

Hi All, 

Have been reading great feed back in woof amps and I am considering an entry level Woo amp may be a WA6. Just wondering how it would pair to Grados 225. I do not see many people in the thread pairng Grodos with Woo at all. 

Another opinion would be highly apprciated, if I should bite the bullet and go for WA6 SE version? I'm on a budget, and understand that may have to set aside a bit more for the tubes too. 

Many thanks in advance for you thoughts, 

Pat


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





torara said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Have been reading great feed back in woof amps and I am considering an entry level Woo amp may be a WA6. Just wondering how it would pair to Grados 225. I do not see many people in the thread pairng Grodos with Woo at all.
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you are on a budget, the WA6 is perfect for you needs already. The Grados aren't very demanding and unless you plan on needing more power in future, I'd go with the WA6. The real game changers are the cans and the source quality.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





torara said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Have been reading great feed back in woof amps and I am considering an entry level Woo amp may be a WA6. Just wondering how it would pair to Grados 225. I do not see many people in the thread pairng Grodos with Woo at all.
> 
> ...


 
  I pair the WA6 with the 325i.  I think it sounds very, very good.  I went with the Sophia Princess but the stock Shuggie is pretty good.  The SE was pushing my price limit and I really don't have enough real estate on my shelving to accomodate a two piece unit.  I'm happy with my present combination.  I think you will be, too.  2 cents.


----------



## shipsupt

I've used an adapter and bunch of 5Z3's in my 6SE, they are relatively cheap to find.  They weren't bad, but I wasn't very impressed with any of them.
   
  Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i talked to a local tube shop couple months ago and he told me i can also try some 5z3, of course with an adoptor.  anybody try that?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I have the WA5LE, and I found the sound decent with the stock tubes, but not overly impressive.  Upgrading the tubes made a big difference.  I did a ton of research, so here's how I went and why:
> 
> Rectifier: EML 5U4G Mesh
> 
> ...


 
  I had the same tubes and the first one out of my WA5-LE was the 81 drivers. i di dnot like hte sound compared to other NOS. Currenlty I am using TS BG/RP 6F8G and love them.
   
  The second one replaced but I still have them were the EML 5U4G Mesh. They were replaced by the 596. If I wan tmore dyanmics I use the 596, if i want a more melow sound I go with the EML btu to be honest the EML have been in their boxes for months.
   
  I am still using the EML 300B Mesh. Love their sound.
  Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Hi wooians,
> I had recently purchased a WA-5 with all the capacitor trimmings with the stock tubes (shuguang 300b-98, shuguang 247a, ge 6sn7).  Upon first firing it up, I had great expectations, as it was better than my Antique Sound Lab MG-head Mk III without any break in and, of course, the great professional reviews and on Head-fi, but I can't say I am happy with the sound.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Upgrade the tubes. They make a big difference. I would go with a pair of 596 or Brimar 5R4GY as rectifiers. TungSol 6F8G drivers and the EML 300B Mesh or at least a Sophia for power tubes.


----------



## tin man

Hello everyone,
   
  I have been thinking about getting a Woo headphone amp for some time now, but the more I read the more the consensus seems that you have to roll and roll to get a Woo to sound good. This is a big concern for me.
   
  in my experience with good tube amps, especially a good SET amp, the amp will sound very good with stock tubes provided by the manufacturer as soon as you run it in (burn in). Tube rolling provides a different perspective of basically the same sound, but does not completely transform it into something else. Sure, sometimes you will find a combination of tube magic between driver and power tube, or rectifier and power tube, but put it all back with the stock tubes and you still have the inherently good tube amp that you bought to begin with.
   
  So here is my question about Woo Audio products. Does a Woo Amp sound like a good SET amp should out of the box with the original tube types that it was designed for? Or do you really have to reinvent the thing with crazy adapters and other worldly exotic strangeness to make it sound good?
  Maybe it's just a head-fi thing. I'm confused. . . .


----------



## GrindingThud

I think it's a head-fi thing...bunch of unsatisfied music loving nerds we are that can't leave well enough alone (ok, maybe that's just me).  My experience with the WA3 SET/OTL is that it is near colorless and sounds great with the designed tube configuration.  Unless the tube is pretty far from the good part of its operating curve, they all sound pretty similar to me (different shades of good).
   
  I stopped taking placebos after I started modding my Woo.  That being said, most will say the 6080/6AS7 is not the best output tube and can be noisy...I will agree with that statement.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Audiophilia is a lot like insanity...putting the same series tube in the socket and expecting a different result.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
    


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have been thinking about getting a Woo headphone amp for some time now, but the more I read the more the consensus seems that you have to roll and roll to get a Woo to sound good. This is a big concern for me.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

all 3 different woo amps i've had have sounded great with whatever tubes in them.
  everybody just gets a little crazy with the tube rolling because they can
  and certainly some non stock tubes sound better.
  but even the WA3 sounded great stock to me.
  Granted i have not heard my 6SE with the stock tubes because mine came with the Sophia.
  In my opinion woo amps are great tube amps
  you could probably do a little better than the 6SE with a cavali or leben.
  but you're also doubling the price at least.


----------



## atomicbob

My nickle's worth. Two different woo amps here; WA3+ and WA7. WA7 rocks with stock Sovtek tubes, dead quiet, sounds great with low and high impedance cans. WA3 may be priced as entry to woo products but it is not an entry level OTL SET. It sounds very, very good paired with higher impedance headphones. 6080/6AS7 can have some residual hum which can be minimized several ways including rolling the tubes. One of my current favorites is a Sino 6AS7G which was about $14US. Improvements can be had with Tung-Sol 5998 etc. It should be remembered that these improvements are often described in such a way as to forget that the stock woo amp started the listener very high on the tube headphone amp performance curve.


----------



## tin man

Thanks for the encouraging words guys. That makes sense to me.


----------



## Pudu

I've only had experience with one Woo, but by far and away the biggest step up comes from the actual amp, and not from trying other tubes. You can use tubes to tweak the sound, but you don't need to.

For the most part, the importance/effect of tubes, DACs (gonna get smacked for this one), and cables - on Head-fi - is a bit like the diminishing returns of high end audio. Just as you spend the greatest proportion of money to effect the smallest changes and improvements, the largest amount of chatter seems to be about the tiny area of tweaking and tuning. There are exceptions to this of course.

To quote Craig Ferguson, "I look forward to your letters." :rolleyes:


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I had the same tubes and the first one out of my WA5-LE was the 81 drivers. i di dnot like hte sound compared to other NOS. Currenlty I am using TS BG/RP 6F8G and love them.
> 
> The second one replaced but I still have them were the EML 5U4G Mesh. They were replaced by the 596. If I wan tmore dyanmics I use the 596, if i want a more melow sound I go with the EML btu to be honest the EML have been in their boxes for months.


 
   
  I'll have to swap out for my SN7's and see if I hear a big difference.  What specifically bothered you about the 181's so I know what to listen for?  I wonder if the TII series changed any of that?  They've only been out a month or so.  You've definitely piqued my curiosity. 
   
  With the 596, any trouble matching tubes?  I'd think the slightest difference would throw the balance off.


----------



## atomicbob

My experience is similar to Pudu's.

My quest has taught me that one can optimize their auditory enjoyment by selecting the playback system in decreasing order of impact (arbitrary % assigned to give some idea of relative impact):

1. Headphones - very personal both physically and preferentially - 50%
2. Amp - should be a good match with headphones - 30%
3. Source - even an iPod line out will sound pretty spectacular if the preceding two have be selected carefully - 15%
4. Tube rolling if applicable - 3%
5. Everything else - 2 ~ 5%

The big challenge is finding the headphones that are a good match for a specific individual. The bad news is there are a lot of headphones from which to choose. Thankfully, that is also the good news.


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> My experience is similar to Pudu's.
> 
> My quest has taught me that one can optimize their auditory enjoyment by selecting the playback system in decreasing order of impact (arbitrary % assigned to give some idea of relative impact):
> 
> ...


 
  Where does the DAC fall into your equation?
   
  --teknikk7


----------



## atomicbob

It is part of 3 - Source:
A) digital stream from CD/DVD transport / USB / Ethernet streamer -> DAC
B) analogue phono preamp / tape / SACD etc.
C) analog output from iDevice etc.
D) other

I know of at least one individual that uses a woo amp with an Ampex 350 as a source.


----------



## teknikk7

This is the last piece of my puzzle, which DAC to get...$300 budget? 
   
  WA6.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> This is the last piece of my puzzle, which DAC to get...$300 budget?
> 
> WA6.


 
   
  Schiit Bifrost, grab one from the trade forum.  Had one myself, a great DAC for a reasonable price.


----------



## atomicbob

JDS Labs sells an ODAC that sounds pretty good to my ears, but it is USB input only. It falls in the same sound camp as the Benchmark DAC1. I'm sure others can chime in on alternatives.


----------



## shipsupt

rawrbington said:


> In my opinion woo amps are great tube amps
> you could probably do a little better than the 6SE with a cavali or leben.
> but you're also doubling the price at least.




While the Leben has some qualities many like (nice looking, some might say romantic sounding, I would say colored and loose) I would struggle to put it ahead of (m)any amps in the Woo line when it comes to SQ.


----------



## Pudu

I should point out that I wasn't being critical of the tube discussions - this stuff is what makes the hobby interesting. Otherwise the forum would be a bit dull:


[COLOR=800080]"I've got an ipod."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]"Yep, got one too."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]"White?"[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]"Red."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=800080]"You run ALAC?"[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]"Yep."[/COLOR]

{birds singing} 

[COLOR=800080]"Wanna talk about tea?"[/COLOR]



But you don't have to get into tube rolling to derive great enjoyment out of a quality amp like a Woo, so don't let it be a reason to scare you off.


----------



## regular.guy

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Hi wooians,
> I had recently purchased a WA-5 with all the capacitor trimmings with the stock tubes (shuguang 300b-98, shuguang 247a, ge 6sn7).  Upon first firing it up, I had great expectations, as it was better than my Antique Sound Lab MG-head Mk III without any break in and, of course, the great professional reviews and on Head-fi, but I can't say I am happy with the sound.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Great responses Head-fi'ers to my question  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I had done some research on v-caps, they need up to 400(!) hours, so my current 150 hours is not even half way there.  I will probably need to upgrade the tubes.  The ASL mg-head OTL did need tube rolling to maximize it, although the price for a pair of Sovtek EL84m's were not quite the same as an EML 300b.  The Shuguang 300b-98 are a replica of the WE, soft in the bass.  The Psvane TII seems to be well regarded, too bad they don't give the "light show" that the Sophia mesh's do.  Anyone have problems getting the Sophia mesh and the Psvane TII 6sn7 to fit togetheter. The Psvane's need up to  300 hours of break in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Good to know that most of ya'll feel the Ultrasone Pro 900's do not mesh well with the wa-5, I do prefer the Senn 650's over the Ultrasone in this amp.  Now that I have a lot of "drive" with up to 8 watts, I may try one of the Hifi-man's or an Audeze model.  Would like a low sensitivity pair, as I can barely crack the volume pot before my ears can't take it.


----------



## reeltime

Because of our discussion here yesterday, I swapped out my PSVane 181s for RCA vintage 6SN7s.  Not much difference.  I'm not able to a/b them, but my notes were that the 6SN7 had slightly deeper bass, but less focused-- it sorta comes from everywhere at once, a little smoother on the top end-- the reverb passages play out a little smoother, and the top end rolls off harshness a bit better.  Honestly-- it's splitting hairs-- these are tiny differences.  They both sound fine to my ear.  I could have saved the few hundred bucks spent on the PSVanes for sure-- but part of the hobby is trying things out.
   
  For driver tubes-- all I ask is for clean delivery througout the db range.  I don't look to driver tubes to shape the sound.


----------



## atomicbob

pudu said:


> I should point out that I wasn't being critical of the tube discussions - this stuff is what makes the hobby interesting.
> *edit*
> But you don't have to get into tube rolling to derive great enjoyment out of a quality amp like a Woo, so don't let it be a reason to scare you off.






reeltime said:


> Because of our discussion here yesterday, I swapped out my PSVane 181s for RCA vintage 6SN7s.  Not much difference.
> *edit*
> I could have saved the few hundred bucks spent on the PSVanes for sure-- but part of the hobby is trying things out.




Excellent points. For those at the beginning of their quest, save tube rolling for later after all the other important aspects of the playback chain have been well balanced. Then when budget and time permit, let the tweaking fun begin. And there are plenty of contributions on this forum to search for tweaks of every kind, especially good information concerning tube rolling.


----------



## Silent One

Good reply, atomicbob. It has been my experience that the drive tube can influence the power tubes (and the other way around), and the source having an impact on one or both of these tubes. Eventually, based on what one likes, the pairings become sort of a dance - some pairings will dance better, the same or worst depending on the recordings played.
   
  What's more, I've made simple system changes and sometimes all bets are off my one-time fav pairings. Let the fun begin...more tweaking!


----------



## Todd R

Just got mine a few minutes ago. 
  Straight out of the Mac (my Calyx DAC is out on loan) with the stock tubes...
  Wow. 
 I think this might be the amp I've been looking for. 
  More later.


----------



## Silent One

Great...can't wait for you to roll the Calyx back in!


----------



## Todd R

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great...can't wait for you to roll the Calyx back in!


 
   
  YOU can't wait....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Should be this week sometime. I just dropped a hint to the guy who's reviewing it that I may need it back shortly. 
   
  I just handed the wife my HE-500's for a quick listen. She got the big grin and said "this is gorgeous, I'll never get you out of here now" (the computer room)


----------



## GrindingThud

Saw these Ken Rad 6F8G on eBay....looked interesting.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ken-Rad-6F8G-Tube-Black-Plates-Pair-NOS-NIB-Desirable-6SN7-Type-/160986064573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item257b8466bd


----------



## kchew

I just received Glenn's 6F8G adaptors, and man these Tung Sol round plate 6F8Gs sound darn good. My amp is turning into some Frankenstein amp though...


----------



## Pudu

No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





pudu said:


> No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."


 
  Next the Frau Bleucher mod...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I just received Glenn's 6F8G adaptors, and man these Tung Sol round plate 6F8Gs sound darn good. My amp is turning into some Frankenstein amp though...


 
   
  kchew lookin' good in Singapore!




   
  Know where I can get the 6F8G variety of TSBGRP goodness?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





pudu said:


> No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> kchew lookin' good in Singapore!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey there, I could only them on evilbay. vacuumtubes.net once advertised them for I think $60 a piece, but when I emailed them they were out of stock for some time. Oh well, time to give other 6F8Gs a try. Wallet status: not looking good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My dilemma was finding maybe 5 pairs for sale but at the time, Glenn was down; had no one to make me adapters. So, I walked.


----------



## kchew

Well, he's back in action now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Well, he's back in action now.


 
  But...but...I got no 6F8G glass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Correction: No Tung-Sol BGRP! His OTL design calls for a single drive tube in my amp, so...


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Saw these Ken Rad 6F8G on eBay....looked interesting.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ken-Rad-6F8G-Tube-Black-Plates-Pair-NOS-NIB-Desirable-6SN7-Type-/160986064573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item257b8466bd


 
   
  I have a pair of those but I have not tried them yet.
   
  SO, there are a bunch of 6F8Gs on ebay now.  Several of them are of the TS BGRP variety.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Does any of you happen to have a good quality recording of this performance? Thx
  
  Late night session going on:


----------



## john57

I have several recordings of the 1812 Overture. The loudest is the 1812" Overture from Erich Kunzel and the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra. The most refined is the Georg Solti version.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The first week of January, I arranged to buy a pair of TS-BGRP's -12SN7. The seller misplaced them; cannot locate. I've seen many of valuables get inadvertently tossed after the holiday season is over. What if...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Short on cash at this writing, but going over to eBay and investigate my options. Thanks!


----------



## dminches

You only have 45 days to make a claim.  However, if you paid via paypal you should be ok.
   
  Who is the seller?


----------



## Silent One

Moi? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, I didn't pay for them. I had been watching his occasional sales of pairs and quads going back to summer 2012; contacted him to purchase a pair in September. Then, a bigger upgrade came along and I decided to hold off a few months. 
   
  They're likely somewhere around his estate. The pair I sought were never listed - I inquired and he happened to have a pair or two remaining. I'm still interested but may not see any audio budgeted cash till April/May.
   
  And then...I'm gonna 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 strike!


----------



## Silent One

Something doesn't appear to be quite right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on the website. Is it my experience alone or others experience something weird?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah same here, looks like the theme is down.


----------



## Silent One

I switched to "Mobile" on the desktop and that brought minor relief...my eyes are twitching.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i should try that, although i don't like the mobile very much.
   
  hope it gets fixed soon.


----------



## Silent One

We're back! Well...sort of. But, full desktop is now working on my side.


----------



## spagetka

[size=10pt]Currently I am more than happy using Brimar 5R4GY.[/size]
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I had the same tubes and the first one out of my WA5-LE was the 81 drivers. i di dnot like hte sound compared to other NOS. Currenlty I am using TS BG/RP 6F8G and love them.
> 
> The second one replaced but I still have them were the EML 5U4G Mesh. They were replaced by the 596. If I wan tmore dyanmics I use the 596, if i want a more melow sound I go with the EML btu to be honest the EML have been in their boxes for months.
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Upgrade the tubes. They make a big difference. I would go with a pair of 596 or Brimar 5R4GY as rectifiers. TungSol 6F8G drivers and the EML 300B Mesh or at least a Sophia for power tubes.


 
   
  What is your take on EML 300B Mesh versus Sophia Royal Princess 300B? Have you or any others here had a chance to hear/compare? Thanks.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What is your take on EML 300B Mesh versus Sophia Royal Princess 300B? Have you or any others here had a chance to hear/compare? Thanks.


 
  I have never heard the Princess


----------



## migasson

Deep Purple - "Machine Head"


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have never heard the Princess


 
   
   
  you guys heard of the psvane we 300b?  i recently got them and it's unbelievable.  of course i only have the stock 300b and some cheap full music 300b to compare with.  hope to try eml 300b later


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm going to start off with the JJ 300B and see where it goes from there. Or is that a big mistake?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> you guys heard of the psvane we 300b?  i recently got them and it's unbelievable.  of course i only have the stock 300b and some cheap full music 300b to compare with.  hope to try eml 300b later


 
  I have been wondering how those WE Replica sound but I have not found any detailed review about them.


----------



## radiolight

Speaking of Psvane, anyone have any experience with Psvane 274B?  There are not any reviews for it either.  I believe someone here has one and was going post his impression as compared with Princess 274B and EML 274B.  But, I have not seen it yet.
   
  I have Shuggie 274B (stock), EML 274B, and Brimar 5R4GY.  Strangely enough, I am currently running the Shuggie 274B with International 6DR7.  Thanks to the recommendation on the 6DR7 from here.  There are my favorite power/drive tubes for my WA6SE (have not explored tubes requiring adapters) and they even make the Shuggie 274B sound pretty good to me ears.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the 6DR7 is a nice tube.
   
  btw, does anyone know if international branded tubes are made by another company? i had some ez80s by them on my WA2, and i haven't found anything online for them, are they a generic company?


----------



## keph

I have a Generic 6FD7, its construction looks identical with my Tung-Sol 6FD7...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the 6DR7 is a nice tube.
> 
> btw, does anyone know if international branded tubes are made by another company? i had some ez80s by them on my WA2, and i haven't found anything online for them, are they a generic company?


 
  You mean ITT (International Telephone Company) Electron tubes?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You mean ITT (International Telephone Company) Electron tubes?


 
   
  no, i think the company's called "international servicemasters" or something like that
   
  google "servicemaster tubes" on images and look at them. its a blue box 
   
  my stock EZ80 for my WA2 is one of those.
   
  theres pics and stuff, but i havent heard much about them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, you need to chat them up, then the community would know more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They sound decent?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Well, you need to chat them up, then the community would know more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Good point, i never thought much of them since they where stock, kinda like the stock 274b on the WA6-SE, it has been ignored. I just put my tesla ez81 tubes in when i got my wa2 and never heard stock rectifier. Ill give it a listen though


EDIT: sounds warmer/tubier, less impact, smoother. not bad, not good


btw, i did order a pair of RFT EZ80 for my WA2 off ebay a few days ago, they where really cheap like 15 bucks shipped for a pair, so i figured, why not? maybe those will be good, i haven't been able to find much on EZ80 rectifiers for my WA2, its always power/drive tubes.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Good point, i never thought much of them since they where stock, kinda like the stock 274b on the WA6-SE, it has been ignored. I just put my tesla ez81 tubes in when i got my wa2 and never heard stock rectifier. Ill give it a listen though
> 
> 
> EDIT: sounds warmer/tubier, less impact, smoother. not bad, not good
> ...


 
   
  I remember the very first day with my _6 Special edition - _immediately installed Miss Sophia, placing the stock rec inside the drawer. It was only a year and a half later that I installed the stocker before selling the amp. It was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e. Well, at least in comparison to the Princess.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





radiolight said:


> I have Shuggie 274B (stock), EML 274B, and Brimar 5R4GY.  Strangely enough, I am currently running the Shuggie 274B with International 6DR7.  Thanks to the recommendation on the 6DR7 from here.  There are my favorite power/drive tubes for my WA6SE (have not explored tubes requiring adapters) and they even make the Shuggie 274B sound pretty good to me ears.


 
  This is what Jack sent with my WA6.  Shuggie is O.K., but I prefer the Princess.  But, I prefer the  international 6DR7's to the RCA's I plopped for.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I have been wondering how those WE Replica sound but I have not found any detailed review about them.


 
   
   
  i got them only because i saw it from a local tube shop and they weren't too expensive.  yea, not too many reviews online.  those reviews i found mostly two types, one like me, don't have a lot of experience with 300b and they usually love it.  and others, comparing the old/original we300b to these psvane we 300b, said not as good as the original we300b.  still to me, when it's only 1/3 of the price and i can get them new.  no brainer to me


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I remember the very first day with my _6 Special edition - _immediately installed Miss Sophia, placing the stock rec inside the drawer. It was only a year and a half later that I installed the stocker before selling the amp. It was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmm...I just recently did a tube rolling for a heck of it.  The least sound changing part on my 6SE was the rectifier.  I've tried RCA/Tungsol 5u4g, Sophia 274b, & 596; they all sounded the same to me.  I am surprised that you guys are saying the rectifier makes a significant difference.  I got my 6SE recently (2 months ago), may be Jack did something to the design??  I took out my 596 and rock on a RCA 5u4g now.
   
  On the driver tube side, I was impressed with the 6FD7 (without adapter) and 6EM7 (with adapter) immensely.  The CY/DR/EW/GL/DN were good but not impressive.  DE was the worst of the bunch.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  In my experience, the Russian stock 5U4G, Sophia Princess 274B, EML 5U4G and '596' couldn't sound anymore different. But, it also came down to degrees of difference - drive tubes and source. And I ran 6SN7 series glass with A LOT more choices available.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In my experience, the Russian stock 5U4G, Sophia Princess 274B, EML 5U4G and '596' couldn't sound anymore different. But, it also came down to degrees of difference - drive tubes and source. And I ran 6SN7 series glass with A LOT more choices available.


 
   
  how many 6sn7 did u try


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how many 6sn7 did u try


 
   
  Many - well known, no-name, rebrand..._many. _Also 7N7 & 7AF7 tubes. Currently sitting on about 125 tubes. Not a lot to some, but I think I should have bought a tube tester @ 25 tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Okay, this summer!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Many - well known, no-name, rebrand..._many. _Also 7N7 & 7AF7 tubes. Currently sitting on about 125 tubes. Not a lot to some, but I think I should have bought a tube tester @ 25 tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 thats alot of tubes!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Skylab would laugh the D7000 right off my head! Perhaps, I have 0.005% of what he got.




   
  The USAF-596 is very rare. Even if you fall for something else, you should keep it around the listening room.


----------



## Yiannis1974

I got the WA3 back yesterday and I am happy to say that it now works just fine . I am very happy I did not turn my back on it.
   
  It turns out that the power tube supplied was faulty. The crazy thing is that the additional tube I purchased (tested etc) was also faulty. So when I was testing it and swapped the tubes, the problem remained. What are the chances of that?!
   
  In any case, it works fine now ... except for some very very very faint buzzing that might be due to EM noise (placed WA3 right next to a set top box + Apple TV + Sony DVD). I think I will try some tube dampers out of curiosity. In any case, I can live with that very faint buzz (have to listen in silence and concentrate to 'hear' it) and the WA3 is now singing.
   
  Connected as a pre-amp to a Creek amplifier and some Monitor Audio RX1s. Loving the Amp
   
  Ok... down to tube rolling now


----------



## Sid-Fi

Yeah that seems surprising. I wonder why.
   
  On my WA22 the rectifier always seemed to make the most obvious changes to the sound. I had a stock Chinese 274b with no brand marking on it that came with it. I then went with a Millard gz37 which was very warm and tubey with a wide stage, but very slow. Mullard gz37 was the opposite - very fast and energetic with closed in sound stage. The Sophia Princess mesh plate was a big upgrade. It was warm and inviting but still faster with a wide sound stage and good separation. The 596 seemed more energetic with greater impact, but still had a nice warm sound with good separation. I found the 596 to have the highest potential, but it didn't have great synergy with my preferred Sylvania GTA. It sounded great with Tung Sol BGRP, but don't cash for them at the moment. 
  Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Hmm...I just recently did a tube rolling for a heck of it.  The least sound changing part on my 6SE was the rectifier.  I've tried RCA/Tungsol 5u4g, Sophia 274b, & 596; they all sounded the same to me.  I am surprised that you guys are saying the rectifier makes a significant difference.  I got my 6SE recently (2 months ago), may be Jack did something to the design??  I took out my 596 and rock on a RCA 5u4g now.
> 
> On the driver tube side, I was impressed with the 6FD7 (without adapter) and 6EM7 (with adapter) immensely.  The CY/DR/EW/GL/DN were good but not impressive.  DE was the worst of the bunch.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Yeah that seems surprising. I wonder why.
> 
> On my WA22 the rectifier always seemed to make the most obvious changes to the sound. I had a stock Chinese 274b with no brand marking on it that came with it. I then went with a Millard gz37 which was very warm and tubey with a wide stage, but very slow. Mullard gz37 was the opposite - very fast and energetic with closed in sound stage. The Sophia Princess mesh plate was a big upgrade. It was warm and inviting but still faster with a wide sound stage and good separation. The 596 seemed more energetic with greater impact, but still had a nice warm sound with good separation. I found the 596 to have the highest potential, but it didn't have great synergy with my preferred Sylvania GTA. It sounded great with Tung Sol BGRP, but don't cash for them at the moment.


 
   
  When I got my 6SE, Jack didn't include a generic rectifier since I ordered the Sophia 274b along with the amp.  May be I just need to listen to a generic brand to truly appreciate the branded ones...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> When I got my 6SE, Jack didn't include a generic rectifier since I ordered the Sophia 274b along with the amp.  May be I just need to listen to a generic brand to truly appreciate the branded ones...


 
   
  I ordered my _6 Special Edition _with Miss Sophia and Jack threw in the stock Russian anyway!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Actually, that's probably pretty darn true. The Sophia Princess 724b is one of the best possible rectifiers for the Woo Amps IMO along with maybe EML and 596, so with that as your only point of reference that might be the major issue in being able to appreciate the differences. The 596 sounded a lot more like the Princess than different IMO compared to many other rectifiers I have heard.
  Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> When I got my 6SE, Jack didn't include a generic rectifier since I ordered the Sophia 274b along with the amp.  May be I just need to listen to a generic brand to truly appreciate the branded ones...


----------



## Silent One

Inside the listening room: "When Push Came To Shove"
   
  It was not unheard of for me to have two, three and dare say four hour warm-ups for my Woo. Naturally, I'd be doin' other things - sometimes a simple hour would do...but I'd get busy with other stuff.
   
  One night, during one of these extended warm ups, Miss Sophia approached the throne slotted "5U4G" to take her rightful place for the night. Out of nowhere, the EML glass appeared, quietly and suspiciously. Then rudely and abruptly tossed the Princess aside. Feelings hurt, she pushed back but then fled.
   
  Looking smug, the big Eastern European got comfy.
   
  And then...
   
  ...out of the dark emerged a newcomer, and stood between the EML Glass and low level light. Not knowing what to make of this stranger, the EML immediately stood, as if threatened. The USAF-596 remained poised and silent. So, the EML got ALL up in it to provoke the stranger into leaving.
   
_"So, who the..."_ and in one swift move, _The Mighty 596_ shoved the EML Glass clean off the stage, mid-sentence! Make no mistake, the '596' was hardly arrogant, just no nonsense.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _"So, who the..."_ and in one swift move, _The Mighty 596_ shoved the EML Glass clean off the stage, mid-sentence! Make no mistake, the '596' was hardly arrogant, just no nonsense.


 
   
  The Mighty 596 Stands alone!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I exchanged messages with you earlier, exercising the_ greatest_ restraint. And then you turn around and hit me like this?! You sir, are up to no good!


----------



## longbowbbs

What?? Just a postscript to your fine missive...


----------



## Silent One

Is that...no, can't be...wait...is that tube looking at me?!


----------



## Clayton SF

Don't forget the music. Music moves even when the best tubes cannot be got.


----------



## Silent One

You 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 know it! I told rosgr63 last year that I could enjoy my favourite tune inside an elevator.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed! And I have, too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Bossa nova sounds really good in an elevator.)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Skylab would laugh the D7000 right off my head! Perhaps, I have 0.005% of what he got.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  lol true, hes supposed to have like a warehouse full of tubes or something right? (well maybe not that much!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  i can tell its getting really rare! i'll be using it for a while, if i ever upgrade my amps too, its gonna be a WA22, so the 596 will always be there


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Man, I can't 'neak anything past you...you're good! Bossa Nova is exactly what I was thinking when I made that comment last year - Astrud Gilberto's "The Girl From Ipanema." With your Record experience in the background, I should have known better.


----------



## longbowbbs

Weird, that was the first tune that popped in my head when I read Bossa Nova!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Inside the listening room: "When Push Came To Shove"


 
   





 good one!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks!
   
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Weird, that was the first tune that popped in my head when I read Bossa Nova!


 
   
  Perhaps, one Friday or Saturday this Spring, we could have a Bossa Nova/Samba night...or day. Whereby, all Woozies would listen on the selected date and post what they listened to and on what Woo.


----------



## migasson

WA22 & LCD-2's with Explosions In The Sky.. "All Of A Sudden I Miss Everyone" .. Just freaking beautiful


----------



## Poladise

Quote: 





migasson said:


> WA22 & LCD-2's with Explosions In The Sky.. "All Of A Sudden I Miss Everyone" .. Just freaking beautiful


 
  Yep, it's albums like that that make it worth spending the money the gear.


----------



## migasson

Spotted the album cover in your avatar nice


----------



## regular.guy

Finally hook up my WA-5 to an old pair of Acoustic Research HO 308 bookshelf speakers.  
   
  The specs are as follows: 1” Aerofoam Dome Tweeter, 5 1/4” Midrange Driver. 8” Long Throw Woofer. Frequency Response: 40Hz – 20KHz +/- 2 db. Sensitivity: 92 db @ 2.83 Volts/Meter. Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms. Power Rating: 25 – 200 Watts RMS.
   
  Well, despite 8 watts not being in the power rating range, it sounded quite good! Tori, Sarah, Haley and other female vocalists are superb.  Couldn't turn the volume past 12:00, as it started to distort.  The midrange "magic" was there and the sound stage was wide, extending 7' beyond, laterally, beyond the speakers.  Deep bass electronica did not fare quite as well, Deadmau5 and John Digweed were a little thin (I will likely add my Velodyne DD-10 to the system).  I have not tried any Metal yet, but Slayer and Disturbed will likely be the first.  
   
  I also have a pair of Thiel 2.3's, but they are a miserably match for the 300b, for those the Bryston 4bsst is the deal.  
   
  I have read that the Psvane TII's, the 6sn7 and the 300b's are good tubes to try for more deep bass and top end extension on the headphone aspect, but will they do the same for speaker level outputs?  
   
There is 200 hours total on the amp, 20 hours only on the speaker level transformer.  Lots of break in still to come.   I thought break in would be a pain, but I am actually enjoying the amp blossoming slowly.  500 hours needed total for the Black Gates to break in. 
   
Anyone try a pair of Zu Loudspeaker's with the WA-5? www.zuaudio.com


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Finally hook up my WA-5 to an old pair of Acoustic Research HO 308 bookshelf speakers.


 
   
  Cool reviews...was wondering how the wa5 would pair up with full size speakers!


----------



## Rawrbington

bet that thing would sound killer on some klipsch heritage


----------



## Silent One

This is what I had been thinking the last month - pairing a '5' with some vintage Klipsch speakers.


----------



## spagetka

I am pretty close to buying Klipsch Cornwall III. Let you know how it sounds.
   
  Right now I have 804S - very nice sounding even it is not ideal for WA5 due to 90db sensitivity.
   
  Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Cool reviews...was wondering how the wa5 would pair up with full size speakers!


 
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> bet that thing would sound killer on some klipsch heritage


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is what I had been thinking the last month - pairing a '5' with some vintage Klipsch speakers.


----------



## kchew

Does anyone have any recommendations for a tube tester for WA22 tubes (5U4G, 6SN7, 6080 and equivalents)? I feel bad that I've collected quite a number of tubes and don't have a tester to check their strength.


----------



## dminches

I would recommend calling Bob Putnak at tubesound.com.  No one knows the testers better than he does.  You can get a nice, calibrated tester at a reasonable price from him.


----------



## rosgr63

One of the best, honest and very knowledgeable.


----------



## shipsupt

X2. Bob set me up with a beautiful tester.


----------



## migasson

The Treasure Cv-181's arrived.. Awesome so far..


----------



## migasson

The Treasure Cv-181's arrived.. Awesome so far..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice! i love seeing WA22 pics


----------



## migasson

@dubstepgirl... The Sophia/Treasure/Sylvania 7236 with LCD-2's is just awesome! It's dangerous for my bloody hearing because it doesn't distort I'll put proper pics up from my DSLR when everything breaks in


----------



## Silent One

^ Ur next DSG, for WA22 ownership!


----------



## migasson

3 0'clock... Nope. No distortion


----------



## atomicbob

Very clean sound is both wonderful and dangerous! Watch your hearing! Rig looks beautiful. I'm betting it sounds even better than its looks.


----------



## deniall83

Can anyone comment on the performance of the WA2 with HD650 cans? Is the WA2 free of audible noise/hum at low-normal listening levels? What about loud levels? I have never owned or even heard a tube amp but I'm worried about noise and that it might be too laid back since I like a very dynamic and punchy sound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> Can anyone comment on the performance of the WA2 with HD650 cans? Is the WA2 free of audible noise/hum at low-normal listening levels? What about loud levels? I have never owned or even heard a tube amp but I'm worried about noise and that it might be too laid back since I like a very dynamic and punchy sound.


 
   
  i had the HD 650/WA2 combo for a while and it drives them very well. the WA2 is a very quiet amp with no noise regardless of gain.
  the HD 650 will get VERY loud with the WA2 as an OTL amp is meant for high impedance loads, the hd 650 is also extremely efficient, it gets very loud very fast, much more than any of the other high impedance headphones. however, you might find the HD650/WA2 to be a little too laid back, its definitely thick and sweet and on the slower side. good tube rolling may improve this.
   
  you probably would enjoy the WA6-SE much more with the HD 650s. there is no noise within the HD 650s and it pairs very nicely with them. powerful transparent sound and really lifts the "veil" off the hd 650s and improves the speed so theres less congestion in fast/complex passages.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> ^ Ur next DSG, for WA22 ownership!


 
  hopefully! ive been considering it for over a year now. good thing i can still use most of my tubes if i get it. would be an end-game amp for me, as long as it is able to drive everything well.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Migasson, where'd you get your 181s?  I'm considering a pair for my WA22 and would be interested in finding a reliable source.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Hi wooians,
> I had recently purchased a WA-5 with all the capacitor trimmings with the stock tubes (shuguang 300b-98, shuguang 247a, ge 6sn7).  Upon first firing it up, I had great expectations, as it was better than my Antique Sound Lab MG-head Mk III without any break in and, of course, the great professional reviews and on Head-fi, but I can't say I am happy with the sound.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I don't have a 5 but the 5LE. I spent my first year just trying new stuff with the amp. My first day I tried a friends silver cables and thought that it was too bright. I ended up using regular Monster copper for the first year, just due to liking a warm sound.
   
  You should just try lots of different stuff. Different headphones, different sources and different cables until you get to the bass and slam you want.
   
  The amps are totally dependent on the ancillary gear around for the sound signature as well as different tubes. I listen to extreme metal 100% of the time and needed an amp that had rock slam as well as speed and low end punch. It took me a year to figure out how. My gear is listed in my Woo 5LE review as well as my Head-Fi profile.
   
  They are really sensitive to power cords and RCA connectors. In the end I would have been happy with the sound-stage and mids I had. After some other changes at the end of my first ownership year I found the amp had all the perfectly tuned bass I could ever ask for as well as PRaT and speed. It just takes experimenting with all the stuff you can get your hands on till you find the correct sound. It's like everything around it is a form of EQ.
   
  Good Luck. When you get there you will not believe it!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be a great surprise and everything you ever wanted.
   

   
Not until I changed the power cords and RCAs did I ever get the real bass I was always looking for.
   
  Unless you have some audiophile friends who will let you use their stuff, the best option is to take your gear to a Head-Fi meet. At one point folks are cool enough to let you do some swap-outs of sources and cables and demo different headphones. This saves you months of time as well as a ton of fun. Take your main Woo 5 system if you can. Take some music you know well for a base-line of what you are about to hear new.
   
  My rig is actually really really warm at this point. There are other headphone systems that are more accurate and detailed but some were 8X what I have spent. You will end up finding a balance of cost and performance that you can live with.

   
Fooling around with a highly adjustable and vintage Stanton phono stage pulled out of a radio station. It still didn't get me the presence and slam I was looking for from a cartridge.


----------



## reeltime

I got mine from psvanetube.com 
   
  There's a new TII series out now-- improving on the Treasures, they are designated by an orange base and silver powerdercoat on the inside of the tube. 
   
  My icon photo shows them.


----------



## migasson

@galaxyguy.. I got mine from my local retailer addictedtoaudio.. George sourced them from Woo Audio, so I'm sure they've got some left! @atomicbob, yes I know! Gotta watch that dial


----------



## FYL941

I hav





deniall83 said:


> Can anyone comment on the performance of the WA2 with HD650 cans? Is the WA2 free of audible noise/hum at low-normal listening levels? What about loud levels? I have never owned or even heard a tube amp but I'm worried about noise and that it might be too laid back since I like a very dynamic and punchy sound.




i have no complaints and very happy w the set up. I did opt to go with the upgraded driver tubes and power tubes.


----------



## reeltime

After 2 weeks of extensive swapping between my 6SN7 tubes in my WA5LE, it's time to share some thoughts.
   
  The tubes:
   
  PSVane 181-TII 
  Tung-Sol 6SN7
  RCA 6SN7
   
  I should point out that the RCA and Tung Sols came from Woo.  The RCA was a set I bought for my WA6, the Tung Sols were stock in my WA5LE.  I bought the PSVanes in December, new, and the TII is PSVane's update of their highly regarded "Treasure" series.  
   
  Also-- I'm not a huge proponent of the driver tube doing all that much to the sound.  Frankly-- these are all decent tubes not worthy of discarding.  What I'm commenting about are nuances in their performance.  
   
  Test Gear: 
  VPI Scout turntable
  Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge
  Clearaudio Basic + phono stage
  Woo Audio WA5LE
  HD800 w/Toxic silver cables
   
  So here we go:
   
  The PSVane, I expected to do very well in this face off-- besting the other tubes, frankly.  They cost more, they have the benefit of being a modern design, big bottles will usually translate to soundstage-- so I expected big things. That, and-- did I mention they ain't cheap?  I will say this-- where the PSVane excelled was in soundstage and precision.  The bass comes from very specific places in the recording, and if you are a detail freak, these may be for you.  Where this tube falls short is in bass quantity.  The bass supports the music, but the bass lays back and never really takes it over, even at moments (like a bass solo in Thelonious Monk's "Thelonius in Action") where it really _should_ take over.  Add to this that I'm listening to the HD800-- which loves a lot of low power drive and you begin to see how the bass might underwhelm.  I'd best describe the bass as "polite".  The PSVane is the best of the three through the mid range.  All that detail really shines here.  Tons of detail-- vocals in particular are stunning-- Paul Simon's "Still Crazy After All These Years" and Carly Simon's "No Secrets" showcase the mids.  The upper frequencies are rather pleasant, too.  Tubular bells, orchestral-- Rimsky-Korsakov "Scheherazade" is a delight, the high end stays sharp without ever overdriving.  Bright is a good word.  Construction is the best of the three.  Orange metal base, brass pins, ceramic pin housing, gunmetal powdercoat inside the glass.  Very high marks.
   
  The Tung Sol: these are fairly respected tubes.  My expectation was for them to come in slightly behind the PSVane.  The Sol definitely offers up more bass than the PSVane.  It's pleasing, but less focused.  Fleetwood Mac's eponymous album presented great electric bass--- the bottom -- dense and meaty, without too much bloat.  The Tung is average through the mids.  Not bad, but not remarkable.  Hard to knock the mids-- but I can't single anything out that impressed me, either.  The upper frequencies have plenty of detail on the Sol.  Crisp-- maybe a touch harsher than the 181s, but nothing is amiss.  Steely Dan's "Aja" presented sparkling symbols, with strict focus.  Soundstage is not as good as the 181s, and nearly identical to the RCA. These are good tubes, and I can see why Jack ships them.  
   
  The RCA: two words-- PRAT and slam.  I found these to be the most musical of the lot.  The bass has terrific slam, the HD800 really loves them.  On Led Zeppelin's "Presence" the tone is rounded out nicely-- Bonhams kicker thumps with authority.  The bass is perhaps the least focused of the three-- but it's a more cohesive overall sound.  On Talking Head's "Remain in Light" the bass shakes deeply through your head-- with sensational impact.  Rush's "Moving Pictures" showcases this tube-- it's an aural sensation.  On classical recordings-- Timpani rolls dig deep into the range.  The mids come in slightly behind the 181s, but not far-- and to my ear they were perhaps a bit ahead of the Tung Sol. Breathy vocals like Norah Jones are robust but not overdone.  The tube is the weakest on the high end.  Great detail, but at times bright spots push into sibilance. It doesn't happen often, but you definitely notice when it does.   
   
  So where do I rank them?  
   
  1) RCA
  2) PSVane
  3) Tung Sol
   
  The Tung was like the RCA without the slam.  It felt too restrained to my ears.  The PSVane is like an expensive watch.  Great to look at, keeps excellent time, but not something you want on your wrist 24/7.  The RCAs are so musical and fun, they're staying in the WA5, for now.  They seem to compliment the HD800 the most.  I think the PSVane might win out with an ortho headphone, I'll have to wait and see how it shapes up-- but currently I'm upgrading analog components in my turntable chain, so a headphone purchase isn't in my immediate future.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for investing your time and effort - enjoyed reading your thoughts with the tubes and your '5LE.'


----------



## bbophead

Good read, thanks.


----------



## teknikk7

Finally got it. Well worth the wait. I can't imagine the sound getting much better...


----------



## Silent One

Congrats teknikk7...just in time for the weekend!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Congrats. This reminds me that it would be nice to have a WA6 downstairs in the office in addition to my WA22 upstairs... 
   
  BTW, is that foobar on your laptop screen. The layout looks totally sweet. Would love to hear about your settings.
  Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> Finally got it. Well worth the wait. I can't imagine the sound getting much better...


----------



## teknikk7

I attached my settings. I got it from another head-fier. Components used are masstagger, facets, quicktagger, sox resampler. Think that does it.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Cool, thanks! I'll check it out soon when I'm on my laptop. 




teknikk7 said:


> [ATTACHMENT=1038]teknikk7.zip (1k. zip file)[/ATTACHMENT]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## atomicbob

Congrats teknikk7! The cool thing about woo amps is that they sound as good as they look. Lots of auditory enjoyment in your future.


----------



## migasson

Yes, Woo amps do sound very, very good I've had the Treasures in for a bit now, and they're a great addition. With the stock 6sn7's and the Sophia/sylvania 7236, things could get a touch relentless. The Treasures have reigned that in, and edged out the soundstage a little too. But dynamics still intact on my WA22 I'm very happy with this combo new cart for my turntable the last stop!


----------



## Clayton SF

All right, break time!
   
  Getting woosy with Woosies.
   
  I went out last night to this great whiskey bar at Pier 3 in SF called Hard Water.
  Stop on by and I'll buy you a drink.
  Or if you don't drink, I'll take you on a tour of San Francisco's wharf area.
  And we can get a some treats at Ghirardelli Square.


----------



## Silent One

No hard chargin' & drinkin' but... how 'bout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





a Gelato? I'd still buy _you_ a drink, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since I'd like to hear your 300B's, I'll buy your grub, too.


----------



## longbowbbs

1 Drink only...you can't Re-"Peat" with a single malt...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No hard chargin' & drinkin' but... how 'bout
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My apartment is undergoing a major overhaul. I am getting rid of junk. Then I am buying new furniture. It should take a few months but when it is together I'll let you know.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Great (thank you)! That shouldn't stop us from hitting Pier (insert 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




number here)!!!


----------



## Sid-Fi

It sounds like I should take a road trip from AZ out to California for a road trip, mini meet, and some grub/drinks if you guys are ever up for a meet.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hey Grokit,

Are you still using your Schiit Gungnir as your main DAC? I remember back when we were both considering either the D18 or Gungnir. I ended up getting the D18 and loving it when you went with the Gungnir. Well I just picked up a Gungnir on the for sale forums and am looking forward to checking it out. I always wondered how I would have liked it if I had gone that route. It will be cool to have thorough experience with both directly.

Unfortunately, I no longer have my AP2/PP so I will be picking up a V-Link 192 in the meantime. Hopefully that will work pretty well in the meantime.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> It sounds like I should take a road trip from AZ out to California for a road trip, mini meet, and some grub/drinks if you guys are ever up for a meet.


 
   
  And save on FedEx 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 by dropping off that gorgeous Woo for evaluation!


----------



## Sid-Fi

That was implied of course 



silent one said:


> And save on FedEx
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> That was implied of course
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Clayton should have Head-Fi library cards!


----------



## GrindingThud

Tried some 6N6P in the preamp spot of the WA3...... heater hum, bummer. I may try elevating the heater to see if it goes away. I was looking forward to listening to these.


----------



## regular.guy

Grrrr!  My NEW wa-5 is now broken!  One day, the right rectifier tube, the stock Shuguang 247b, sparked upon startup, but thereafter worked fine, but developed a slight rattle during operation.  I think I may have not waited long enough after shut down before rebooting in the speaker selection, from the headphone selection.  I pulled both tubes. The offending tube has a rattle when I shake it.  I have a pair of compatible 5ar4's, so I popped 'em in.  After the soft start, the right 5ar4 sparked and the amp blew a fuse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










.  Well, good thing I did not pack up my ASL mg-head OTL yet.  Any of ya'll have this problem?  Sent an Email to Woo, I'll let all of you know what he said.


----------



## regular.guy

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Grrrr!  My NEW wa-5 is now broken!  One day, the right rectifier tube, the stock Shuguang 247b, sparked upon startup, but thereafter worked fine, but developed a slight rattle during operation.  I think I may have not waited long enough after shut down before rebooting in the speaker selection, from the headphone selection.  I pulled both tubes. The offending tube has a rattle when I shake it.  I have a pair of compatible 5ar4's, so I popped 'em in.  After the soft start, the right 5ar4 sparked and the amp blew a fuse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well did a little research online.  I read that many diy'ers have had trouble with the JJ 5ar4/gz34, arcing then failing.  I pray that the Shuguang was just ripe to fail with loose parts, from the start, and the JJ's, despite being pulled from working gear (a Primaluna prologue 3 preamp), was nearing the end of it's life and the current pull of the wa-5 was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe I just need a new fuse and a trial of some cheap Sovtek 5ar4's and my new wa-5 baby will be all better, I hope......
   
  Anyone have a pair of Sophia Princess's arc?  They were going to be my rectifier upgrade.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I'm crossing my fingers it's just a new fuse needed as well. I've had the Princess in as my main rectifier for my WA22 but have never seen it arc. I think I remember others having it happen though. I think dubstepgirl might have had that happen if I remember correctly. 



regular.guy said:


> Well did a little research online.  I read that many diy'ers have had trouble with the JJ 5ar4/gz34, arcing then failing.  I pray that the Shuguang was just ripe to fail with loose parts, from the start, and the JJ's, despite being pulled from working gear (a Primaluna prologue 3 preamp), was nearing the end of it's life and the current pull of the wa-5 was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe I just need a new fuse and a trial of some cheap Sovtek 5ar4's and my new wa-5 baby will be all better, I hope......
> 
> Anyone have a pair of Sophia Princess's arc?  They were going to be my rectifier upgrade.


----------



## MomijiTMO

regular.guy said:


> Anyone have a pair of Sophia Princess's arc?  They were going to be my rectifier upgrade.


You need some 596ers my friend.

The 5u4gs don't really like to work in tandem. I call it a design flaw.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





momijitmo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I was thinking the same thing....


----------



## Silent One

This highlights the introduction of the UASF-596 by 2359glenn for the Thread starter's WA5LE. Was blowing EML Glass left & right.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





momijitmo said:


> You need some 596ers my friend.
> 
> The 5u4gs don't really like to work in tandem. I call it a design flaw.


 

 I've heard about this design flaw. Isn't Jack aware of this?


----------



## Silent One

Jac-Music, Jack Wu & Glenn have all had dialogue with this experience.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Jac-Music, Jack Wu & Glenn have all had dialogue with this experience.


 
  And rectifiers are still going kablooey? :/


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Grrrr!  My NEW wa-5 is now broken!  One day, the right rectifier tube, the stock Shuguang 247b, sparked upon startup, but thereafter worked fine, but developed a slight rattle during operation.  I think I may have not waited long enough after shut down before rebooting in the speaker selection, from the headphone selection.  I pulled both tubes. The offending tube has a rattle when I shake it.  I have a pair of compatible 5ar4's, so I popped 'em in.  After the soft start, the right 5ar4 sparked and the amp blew a fuse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your best bet is to get a pair of 596 tubes but these are starting to get hard to find.
  Next best thing would to get a pair or 5U4GB these are stronger then a 5u4G
  I know nobody likes the 5U4GB it is not as pretty but a much better tube the 596 and 5U4GB
  are electrically close.  If anybody says the 5U4GB don't sound good I say BS.
  One thing when you buy new rectifiers they have to be the same brand and vintage
  or the filaments won't worm up evenly and one tube will blow up


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You know how such matters usually go. Customer is having issues with bottles of pricey Champagne going flat prematurely; returns to importer to complain.  Importer turns to Champagne House to raise the issue. Told their is nothing wrong with production methods and said customer must be using dirty glasses or improper storage.
   
  Customer gets frustrated after trying new bottles at own expense - same results. Decides to switch labels before going broke.  With no changes made from the importer to the manufacturer. Or something like that...


----------



## Clayton SF

Good analogy. I'll drink to that! That's why this thread is so important. When amp owners can help each other find that great bottle of bubbly when others have gone flat.


----------



## Silent One

I shouldn't have to drop what I'm doing, just to tell a manufacturer_ "I don't care if it's made from wine, if I wanted wine I would have bought the bleepin' bottle already!"_


----------



## dminches

I am using 2 Mullard GZ34s in a Cary SLI80 integrated amp.  I have not had an issue with those.


----------



## awsanderson

Do any of the Woo amps have multiple inputs?  I am looking to upgrade amps and I'd like one with two inputs so I don't have to move wires every time I go from digital to analog and back. 
  Thanks in advance


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





awsanderson said:


> Do any of the Woo amps have multiple inputs?  I am looking to upgrade amps and I'd like one with two inputs so I don't have to move wires every time I go from digital to analog and back.
> Thanks in advance


 
   
  WA6SE definitely does. Two of them


----------



## Silent One

When in doubt, specify. You buy and Jack will deliver. Some owners have different needs and simply have Jack address them.


----------



## awsanderson

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When in doubt, specify. You buy and Jack will deliver. Some owners have different needs and simply have Jack address them.


 
  So they will put two inputs on if I order it that way?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





awsanderson said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It'd be proper to make the request. Then, once the dialogue is opened between you two: he can confirm or maybe even make a suggestion.


----------



## awsanderson

Thanks


----------



## awsanderson

I  went to their site, some have balanced and RCA inputs which will work great, analog= RCA and DAC= balanced


----------



## migasson

@awsanderson. My WA22 has those.. But I run my vinyl front end balanced, and my dac unbalanced


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





awsanderson said:


> Do any of the Woo amps have multiple inputs?  I am looking to upgrade amps and I'd like one with two inputs so I don't have to move wires every time I go from digital to analog and back.
> Thanks in advance


 
   
  WA5LE has 4 inputs.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This highlights the introduction of the UASF-596 by 2359glenn for the Thread starter's WA5LE. Was blowing EML Glass left & right.


 
   
  I've had EML 5U4Gs (mesh), bought new, using daily for 3 months now in my WA5LE, not even a hiccup.  They sure sound amazing.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Your best bet is to get a pair of 596 tubes but these are starting to get hard to find.
> Next best thing would to get a pair or 5U4GB these are stronger then a 5u4G
> I know nobody likes the 5U4GB it is not as pretty but a much better tube the 596 and 5U4GB
> are electrically close.  If anybody says the 5U4GB don't sound good I say BS.
> ...


 
   
  Amen to the 5U4GB. I've tried the Tung Sol and RCA variants, and while they may not be on the same level as the better rectifiers, they still perform well and are very cheap. I prefer the RCAs by a hair, but the Tung Sols are not shabby at all. For $30 for a pair of NOS US-branded 5U4GBs, don't bother with cheap 5AR4s.
   
  I remember the hoo-haa about the EML 5U4G in the WA-5, but did anyone face any problems with it in the WA22? So far mine has hit about 1000 hours, and the only time it misbehaved was when it sparked once 5 minutes into warm-up. That was a few months back and it's still going strong.


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @awsanderson. My WA22 has those.. But I run my vinyl front end balanced, and my dac unbalanced


 
  Doesn't your WA22 run at half power when fed from the unbalanced inputs? That's not a problem?


----------



## migasson

@daverich4.. Yeah, it runs half power, but I only listen to digital sources 5% of the time, so it's not an issue, if I do, I'd unplug the LCD-2's and run a more sensitive 'phone. I much prefer vinyl hands down, any day of the week


----------



## Clayton SF

I've had my EML 5U4G in my WA22, WA6, and Decware amps with no problems. Both did spark at least few times during start up but so far so good. I've got balanced sources going into the WA22 but listening to it with SE headphones.


----------



## awsanderson

My Phono pre has no balanced outs, so that's not an option yet... upgrade


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

I have now also joined the EML 5U4G club, the last rectifier I plan to throw into my WA22 mix for quite a while. So far so good on the technical/electrical end. Still trying out various driver tubes to find the best match, but for now I'm liking the Psvane 181s, which definitely were too much with the 596.
   
  One thing that surprised me was the size of the box it came in, and when I opened it, I had a Death Star moment "Look at the size of that thing"


----------



## Sid-Fi

I still haven't had a chance to have an EML in my WA22. So far its just been the Princess mesh, 596, and a few Mullards. Would love to hear it for extended listening sessions though.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> One thing that surprised me was the size of the box it came in, and when I opened it, I had a Death Star moment "Look at the size of that thing"


 
   
  "Those aren't tubes..."
   
  On the 181's-- They have great detail, but they're not the last word in bass reproduction.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


reeltime said:


> On the 181's-- They have great detail, but they're not the last word in bass reproduction.


 
  Agree. I found their main characteristic to be punchy in the mids, sometimes to much, as in the combination with the 596, IMHO of course. They seem pretty well behaved with the EML so the bass is not so much overshadowed by the mids, and that works pretty nicely for me. What would be some of your suggestions?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Is the EML noticeably larger than the Sophia Princess?


----------



## Thaddy

Fired up the WA2 to wind down the weekend...


----------



## hodgjy

Do I spy some Valvo EZ80s?  (Valvo, Phillips, Amperex are all the same depending on country of sale, if I'm right).
   
  How do you like those?  If you'd like a little more linear extension, you owe it to yourself to look into some RFT EZ80s.  I use that in my Trafomatic, and it is wonderful.
   
  Edit: Upon zoom, they are Ei.  I think those are made on Phillips tools once they sold them to Yugoslavia.  How do you like those?
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Fired up the WA2 to wind down the weekend...


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Sid...did you keep your WA22?  I thought you were selling it here...


----------



## Thaddy

Yup, they are Ei EZ-80's, along with some Sylvania 6DJ8's and Chatham 6AS7G's.  Honestly I wasn't able to tell much difference between the Ei's and my GE EZ-80's.  I am actually planning another purchase of a full set of tubes, so I'll look into the RFT EZ-80's.  Do you have a good source for some?


----------



## hodgjy

Many of the GE-labeled EZ80s are rebadged Phillips.  So, if Ei are the Yugoslavian equivalent of Phillips, it makes sense you weren't able to tell much difference between them.
   
  I got my RFTs off ebay.  If you're willing to try the RFT EZ81 (I think the WA2 can handle the EZ81), tubemonger,com has them.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Yup, they are Ei EZ-80's, along with some Sylvania 6DJ8's and Chatham 6AS7G's.  Honestly I wasn't able to tell much difference between the Ei's and my GE EZ-80's.  I am actually planning another purchase of a full set of tubes, so I'll look into the RFT EZ-80's.  Do you have a good source for some?


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> Quote:
> Agree. I found their main characteristic to be punchy in the mids, sometimes to much, as in the combination with the 596, IMHO of course. They seem pretty well behaved with the EML so the bass is not so much overshadowed by the mids, and that works pretty nicely for me. What would be some of your suggestions?


 
   
  I don't have the benefit of having heard the 596-- and I'm not sure I ever will.  Even if I came across a pair-- I'm anxious about a big cash outlay for two tubes that may not match.  I've been burned by this in the past.  I love the EMLs anyway and I'm not anxious to give them up.  
   
  I'm more on a hunt for the ultimate 6SN7.  I don't think I've found the perfect tube yet.  Sophia makes a 6SN7 tube I may try-- and there I've read that Sylvania has a 6SN7 with the bass punch I'm seeking.  I have a pair of RCAs which are ideal in the bass-- but they go sibilant too easily, which I find annoying.  
   
  They other way to get there may be to keep the 181's but try the Sophia Royal Princess 300B-- which is supposed to have a ton of bass punch.  But that's a $1200 dollar 'experiment' I'm not anxious to conduct.


----------



## hodgjy

From an old post in the WA2 threads:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2/510#post_7253705


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Many of the GE-labeled EZ80s are rebadged Phillips.  So, if Ei are the Yugoslavian equivalent of Phillips, it makes sense you weren't able to tell much difference between them.
> 
> I got my RFTs off ebay.  If you're willing to try the RFT EZ81 (I think the WA2 can handle the EZ81), tubemonger,com has them.


 
  Glad to hear my ears still got it 
   
  I'll add those EZ81's to my list, thanks!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hey GalaxyGuy,

Yeah, I did keep my WA22. I closed the auction and decided that I will keep my WA22 for the long haul. It's just too nice of an amp to sell and take a big resale value hit. I knew I would regret it.

I got really exciting to buy a CLAS- db and Apex Glacier since I am able to use portable so much more often. I sold off my Audiophilleo2 and PurePower 2 and D18 to get the portable setup and other stuff. 

I ended up just buying a Schiit Gungnir off the for sale forums so ill have the same setup as you it looks like now. I also ordered a new Musiland 03 USD as a USB to SPDIF converter after reading a rave review of it compared to Evo and Audiophilleo. I was going to get a V-link 192 but felt like taking a chance on the 03. 



galaxyguy said:


> Sid...did you keep your WA22?  I thought you were selling it here...


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


reeltime said:


> I don't have the benefit of having heard the 596-- and I'm not sure I ever will.  Even if I came across a pair-- I'm anxious about a big cash outlay for two tubes that may not match.  I've been burned by this in the past.  I love the EMLs anyway and I'm not anxious to give them up.
> 
> I'm more on a hunt for the ultimate 6SN7.  I don't think I've found the perfect tube yet.  Sophia makes a 6SN7 tube I may try-- and there I've read that Sylvania has a 6SN7 with the bass punch I'm seeking.  I have a pair of RCAs which are ideal in the bass-- but they go sibilant too easily, which I find annoying.
> 
> They other way to get there may be to keep the 181's but try the Sophia Royal Princess 300B-- which is supposed to have a ton of bass punch.  But that's a $1200 dollar 'experiment' I'm not anxious to conduct.


 
  I meant driver tubes (6SN7s) relative to the EML rectifier, not so much the 596. Funnily enough, the Sophia 6SN7s you mention were one of my first "fancy" driver tubes (together with the Sophia Princess 274B rectifier), and the best match so far has been for me with the 596... with other rectifiers, incl. Sophia's own, kinda meh.
   
  Haven't had a chance to try them with the EML yet. Only so much time available for quality listening, and sometimes I like to just sit back and enjoy rather than another round of tube comparisons


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> Quote:
> 
> Only so much time available for quality listening, and sometimes I like to just sit back and enjoy rather than another round tube comparisons


 
   
  I hear ya.  My Scout has been my best friend during tax season this year.  I played through dozens of albums with the WA5LE.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> This is what I had been thinking the last month - pairing a '5' with some vintage Klipsch speakers.


 
   
  You know that's my dream rig... a WA5 with Klipshorns, in the right room of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Hey Grokit,
> 
> Are you still using your Schiit Gungnir as your main DAC? I remember back when we were both considering either the D18 or Gungnir. I ended up getting the D18 and loving it when you went with the Gungnir. Well I just picked up a Gungnir on the for sale forums and am looking forward to checking it out. I always wondered how I would have liked it if I had gone that route. It will be cool to have thorough experience with both directly.
> 
> Unfortunately, I no longer have my AP2/PP so I will be picking up a V-Link 192 in the meantime. Hopefully that will work pretty well in the meantime.


 
   
  Why yes, I am. Sorry I have not been keeping up with the faster-moving threads lately! I would expect the Gungnir to sound fuller, perhaps more musical and the D18 to be more detailed and open sounding. But this is only from what I have read regarding the D18 and Sabre DACs in general. I would be interested to hear your impressions of how these two balanced DACs compare with the WA22...




   
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The EML was the first top-flight" rectifier that I rolled into my WA22, and the only tube I ever had any problems with. It blew up within the warranty period, so I was glad I had bit the bullet for a new one. It was replaced under warranty and I didn't have any more problems. There were quite a few of these blowing up by that time, and mine was part of the last wave of bad ones before the final revision. I remember EML was working with Woo and other amp manufacturers to increase tolerances or something. AFAIK, these issues were minimized after that final revision.
   
   
  Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Is the EML noticeably larger than the Sophia Princess?


 
   

   
   
  Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> I did keep my WA22


 
   
  Good choice!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Yeah, I did keep my WA22.


 
   
  +1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The EML was the first top-flight" rectifier that I rolled into my WA22, and the only tube I ever had any problems with. It blew up within the warranty period, so I was glad I had bit the bullet for a new one. It was replaced under warranty and I didn't have any more problems. There were quite a few of these blowing up by that time, and mine was part of the last wave of bad ones before the final revision. I remember EML was working with Woo and other amp manufacturers to increase tolerances or something. AFAIK, these issues were minimized after that final revision.


 
  Would you care to comment on the differences you hear between these three?  I'm current running Miss Sophia, and she sounds fantastic in the 22, but my curiosity is getting the best of me. If this comparison's already been done elsewhere, you could just point me there. I'm just a bit new here...
   
  Cheers


----------



## grokit

Here you go...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/13755#post_7751607


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Here you go...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/13755#post_7751607


 
  Awesome read.  Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

During the EML saga mentioned by grokit, EML went as far as to shut down the production line - twice in 18 months, I believe, to make improvements. Some batches were already in the wild. The amount of cash laid out made for frustrating times. But, hats-off to ALL parties who participated to work it out.


----------



## Silent One

To compliment grokit's review, another Wooist, fellow member kchew, did a shootout of seven rectifiers in his WA22:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325#post_8305688


----------



## dminches

That is one great, in depth review.
   
  Thanks to kchek and grokit.


----------



## Silent One

Re: United Electronic 596 rectifiers
   
  Yesterday, my seller acquired five used rectifiers, JAN-596/USAF-596. Looks like they were pulled from equipment. Likely a RF Transmitter. $35ea. Neither tested or measured but should be good and will back any non-performing tube.
   
  I am still in the hunt for new ones. However, if anyone needs a stop-gap measure...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Thanks for that SO, yet I'd prefer a brand new one


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks for that SO, yet I'd prefer a brand new one


 
   
  I know what you mean. I too, want my Glass to be new. So new in fact, it looks suspicious!


----------



## Yiannis1974

Hello everyone 
   
  I just ordered a WA2 and can't wait to get my hands on it. 
   
  I am however a bit confused about tube matching... would someone be able to help? Basically, I understand that the WA2 has 2 power tubes, 2 rectifier tubes and 4 driver tubes. If I were to buy replacement driver tubes, would I need to find a quad matched set? Or would i simply need  2 individual matched pairs? (I guess two separate matched pairs may include tubes that are matched but the the two pairs might not be themselves matched)..... confusion...
   
  Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer
   
  Yiannis


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I just ordered a WA2 and can't wait to get my hands on it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  2+2+2 would be better. Matched pairs are always good imo


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> 2+2+2 would be better. Matched pairs are always good imo


 

 Totally understand that two tubes need to be matched .. but would a matched pair itself need to be matched with the second pair as well?


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> Totally understand that two tubes need to be matched .. but would a matched pair itself need to be matched with the second pair as well?


 

 Sorry... I can see I made a mistake in my previous posts. The WA2 actually needs 2 driver tubes, 2 power tubes and 2 rectifiers. Matched pairs now make sense. Thank you and sorry for the confusion


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> Totally understand that two tubes need to be matched .. but would a matched pair itself need to be matched with the second pair as well?


 
   
  You've lost me. The WA2 has 2 rectifiers, 2 driver tubes and 2 power tubes. Just match the drivers with each other, just like the power tubes. I wouldn't match the rectifiers, but that's me.
  You can not match drivers-rectifiers-power tubes with each other, as far as I know


----------



## Yiannis1974

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You've lost me. The WA2 has 2 rectifiers, 2 driver tubes and 2 power tubes. Just match the drivers with each other, just like the power tubes. I wouldn't match the rectifiers, but that's me.
> You can not match drivers-rectifiers-power tubes with each other, as far as I know


 

 I know, I confused things a lot . Sorry about that, I got things cleared up now. Many thanks


----------



## hodgjy

Hopefully this doesn't confuse you more, but be careful when ordering "matched pairs."  Some vendors think matched pairs simply have the same date codes of manufacture.  But, true matched pairs test the same on a tube tester.
   
  Quote: 





yiannis1974 said:


> I know, I confused things a lot . Sorry about that, I got things cleared up now. Many thanks


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Hopefully this doesn't confuse you more, but be careful when ordering "matched pairs."  Some vendors think matched pairs simply have the same date codes of manufacture.  But, true matched pairs test the same on a tube tester.


 
   
  In reality, true matched pairs need to match in more ways than test results.  However, few, if any, of us have the ability to measure the other characteristics.
   
  If this is your go-to pair, buy from the well known and respected dealer.  Let him know what equipment you have.


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Re: United Electronic 596 rectifiers
> 
> Yesterday, my seller acquired five used rectifiers, JAN-596/USAF-596. Looks like they were pulled from equipment. Likely a RF Transmitter. $35ea. Neither tested or measured but should be good and will back any non-performing tube.
> 
> I am still in the hunt for new ones. However, if anyone needs a stop-gap measure...


 
  I would suppose that they are new only used to test the military equipment when it was manufactured.
  Probably pulled from equipment that was never used.


----------



## Silent One

This leaves me feeling rather good about 'em! Might have to get a back up, for the back up that's backing up the main rectifier. Can never be too comfy, I suppose.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> In reality, true matched pairs need to match in more ways than test results.  However, few, if any, of us have the ability to measure the other characteristics.
> 
> If this is your go-to pair, buy from the well known and respected dealer.  Let him know what equipment you have.


 
   
  David if they have the same construction, batch, date code and the same/close plate current then they can be considered as matched.
   
  A graph of plate current versus voltage will be the best test, the Sofia tester is an excellent tool.
   
  Here is the graph of one of my pairs:


----------



## dminches

Stavros, what tester is that?


----------



## john57

Usually a curve tracer on a O'scope but this looks a bit different.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Stavros, what tester is that?


 
   
  Sofia Tube Tester.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

I picked up a pair of 2399 tubes via a group buy from Ultrainferno recently (thank you Ultrainferno and dminches!) and I installed the tubes yesterday.  Granted, they have not had any time to burn in yet, but I have noticed that there is a faint background hum in my HD650s, even with the volume turned all the way down.  Do you all think that this will diminish with time?  There are also some occasional pops.  I did not hear this with the stock tubes nor the Sylvania 7236s.
   
  My initial impression of these tubes is that the bass seems to have a bit more punch than with the 7236 (although they are very close, imho).  Otherwise, they sound very clean across the spectrum.  I'm quite happy other than what's mentioned above.
   
  Any feedback would be welcome.


----------



## hodgjy

It's my experience that the 6AS7/2399/5998/6080 family of tubes are just really prone to noise.  They were never intended to be audio tubes.  While it's possible the hum will decrease, I wouldn't bet on it.  I've run in all my noisy power tubes for hours in hope of this, and they never did get quiet.  I hope yours do because they really are glorious sounding tubes in OTL amps.
   
  Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> I picked up a pair of 2399 tubes via a group buy from Ultrainferno recently (thank you Ultrainferno and dminches!) and I installed the tubes yesterday.  Granted, they have not had any time to burn in yet, but I have noticed that there is a faint background hum in my HD650s, even with the volume turned all the way down.  Do you all think that this will diminish with time?  I did not hear this with the stock tubes nor the Sylvania 7236s.
> 
> My initial impression of these tubes is that the bass seems to have a bit more punch than with the 7236 (although they are very close, imho).  Otherwise, they sound very clean across the spectrum.  I'm quite happy other than the hum.
> 
> Any feedback would be welcome.


----------



## dminches

Same here although with my current pair of 5998s in Glenn's OTL the hum is really quieted down.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

all my tubes including my 5998 are silent in my WA2. even more silent than the silentone


----------



## Silent One




----------



## GalaxyGuy

Thanks for the feedback, all!  Hopefully the hum will diminish with time, we'll have to see.
   
  One more quick question, just to show you how much of a newbie I am.  To burn in the tubes do I need to have music playing through the amp, or can I just leave the amp on with no music playing?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's my experience that the 6AS7/2399/5998/6080 family of tubes are just really prone to noise.  They were never intended to be audio tubes.  While it's possible the hum will decrease, I wouldn't bet on it.  I've run in all my noisy power tubes for hours in hope of this, and they never did get quiet.  I hope yours do because they really are glorious sounding tubes in OTL amps.


 
  What about WE 421a tubes? Are they intended for audio use?


----------



## atomicbob

There was a faint residual mains hum from my WA3+ with any high impedance headphones, HD600 and T90 here, for any of my 6AS7, 6080, 5998 and now 2399 tubes. I made an adapter cable that plugs into the amp and headphones plug into the adapter. This adapter parallels two 100K ohm resistors with the headphones. The resulting additional load dropped the residual hum to in-audible for me. A measurement mic shows the hum is still present but reduced significantly.

First 2399 rolled in had some static / machinery noises, and pings during warm-up. The pings still occur during first 10 minutes but other noises are gone. Pings are just part of thermal expansion until the tube equilibrates to 135 deg C. Enjoying an enhanced clarity of sound while retaining the magic mid-range. Bass is tight and accurately portrayed. Shortly to receive HD800 to audition; I'm sure this will move the reproduction sound to another level.


----------



## hodgjy

That is just a fancy rebadged TS 5998.  None of those tubes were ever designed with audio (home music) in mind.  They were designed to be voltage regulators, and often found their way into computers.  Some of them may have been intended for radio broadcast and radar, but that's a far cry from boutique audio.
   
  Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> What about WE 421a tubes? Are they intended for audio use?


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> What about WE 421a tubes? Are they intended for audio use?


 
   
  They are an upgraded version of the 5998.
  Closely matched plates tighter tolerances, better specs.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> They are an upgraded version of the 5998.
> Closely matched plates tighter tolerances, better specs.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That is just a fancy rebadged TS 5998.  None of those tubes were ever designed with audio (home music) in mind.  They were designed to be voltage regulators, and often found their way into computers.  Some of them may have been intended for radio broadcast and radar, but that's a far cry from boutique audio.


 
  Thanks!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Is it a ping or a pop?
  I checked all tubes before sending, non had hum in my amp I tested them in and non popped.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Is it a ping or a pop?
> I checked all tubes before sending, non had hum in my amp I tested them in and non popped.


 
  It sounded like a pop to me, but I'm not sure that I know the difference...
   
  What amp did you test them in?  I'm using them in my WA22.  I don't hear anything with my LCD2s, but with the HD650s there is a distinct hum that wasn't there with the 7236 tubes in place. I'm not worried, just wondering whether people thought it would prevail or whether it would diminish over time.


----------



## Sesam

If it is any help, with my WA22 and Beyerdynamic T1 headphones, I have noticed some hum with most Sylvania 7236 tubes I have tested (approx 16 of them, used condition and allegedly "NOS"). This when compared to RCA 6080WA tubes that I use for reference (I have a lot that I know is truly new/unused), that to my ears have a completely silent background.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

With all the talks on acquiring new tubes, how about old tubes?  Any problem of just put them into the trash (eventually to the landfill)?  Any other useful/fun things to do with them?  I got a few "noisy" tubes to get rid of...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sesam said:


> If it is any help, with my WA22 and Beyerdynamic T1 headphones, I have noticed some hum with most Sylvania 7236 tubes I have tested (approx 16 of them, used condition and allegedly "NOS"). This when compared to RCA 6080WA tubes that I use for reference (I have a lot that I know is truly new/unused), that to my ears have a completely silent background.


 
  Must be your specific tubes. I owned 3 pair of Sylvania 7236 tubes with my (now sold) WA22 and all were dead quiet.


----------



## GrindingThud

Microwave......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> With all the talks on acquiring new tubes, how about old tubes?  Any problem of just put them into the trash (eventually to the landfill)?  Any other useful/fun things to do with them?  I got a few "noisy" tubes to get rid of...


----------



## Sid-Fi

MacedonianHero, I just plugged in your old Bogdan Audio Goldy interconnects to the Schiit Gungnir I just picked up and my WA22. It sounds pretty nice. I just compared directly to my Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 and seem to prefer them. Are these silver based they sound like they have a touch of copper. 



macedonianhero said:


> Must be your specific tubes. I owned 3 pair of Sylvania 7236 tubes with my (now sold) WA22 and all were dead quiet.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  X2, no noise with my two pairs either. But I've never tried a T1.


----------



## Sid-Fi

After being without a full-size DAC for awhile its so nice to have one back in front of my WA22 with 4.2v strong output via balanced XLR. 

I just had a CLAS-db for the last full month or two. While its a great little unit and awesome with my Apex Glacier, its 1.2v output was not cutting it for the WA22. I kept getting noticeable tube distortion noise since I had to jack the volume up. Now with the Gungnir, it is dead quiet again...aaah that's nice. 

One other thing Woosies. I'm using a new Musiland 03USD USB to SPDIF interface with the Gungnir and WA22. I was going to get a V-Link 192 but decided to try the Musiland after reading a rave review that seemed credible that it pitted against AP2 and Evo head to head and found it superior (gulp, I know). I had an AP2 and PurePower which were phenomenal together so I'm not ready to swallow that hook line and sinker just yet. However, it is clearly pretty dang good right out of the box for $220 without burn in. I'm getting clean sound with nice clean ambient noises and details, which I find are the first things to suffer with a deficient USB interface.


----------



## Sid-Fi

X3, I have one pair of Sylvania 7236 and they are quiet as long as I have a good output voltage coming into the WA22 and don't have to jack the volume real high. 



grokit said:


> X2, no noise with my two pairs either. But I've never tried a T1.


----------



## Sesam

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Must be your specific tubes. I owned 3 pair of Sylvania 7236 tubes with my (now sold) WA22 and all were dead quiet.


 
   
  Yea I guess, as the hum was not present with all of them. Maybe other factors were playing into that too, like when used with a specific rectifier or something.


----------



## migasson

@galaxyguy.. I've got the 7236's in my WA22, and have owned T90's, and have LCD-2's.. With the stock 6080's there was hum, which is no longer there with the 7236's...


----------



## Ultrainferno

galaxyguy said:


> It sounded like a pop to me, but I'm not sure that I know the difference...
> 
> What amp did you test them in?  I'm using them in my WA22.




A ping is when like the tubes are warming up. A pop is really loud and it sounds like a pop 
Pops are not good in general

I tested it with the crack as thats easiest with a 32ohm headphone

On a sidenote, I have the Beyer T90 coming in, looking forward to try the 250ohm headphone on the WA2. I actually also have the T70 but never tried it with the WA2


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> With all the talks on acquiring new tubes, how about old tubes?  Any problem of just put them into the trash (eventually to the landfill)?  Any other useful/fun things to do with them?  I got a few "noisy" tubes to get rid of...


 
  I do not think any contain mercury so tossing them in the trash is fine.
   
  Tubes make excellent exploding targets for target shooting.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @galaxyguy.. I've got the 7236's in my WA22, and have owned T90's, and have LCD-2's.. With the stock 6080's there was hum, which is no longer there with the 7236's...


 
  The amp is dead quiet with the 7236's in.  The difference between the 2399's and 7236's is minimal to my ears, so I imagine I will stick with the 7236's.  It was worth a shot on the 2399's, though.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> MacedonianHero, I just plugged in your old Bogdan Audio Goldy interconnects to the Schiit Gungnir I just picked up and my WA22. It sounds pretty nice. I just compared directly to my Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 and seem to prefer them. Are these silver based they sound like they have a touch of copper.


 
  I'm pretty sure they're pure copper cores and plated with gold. No silver I think.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks. Did you like them okay while you had them, or were they not quite your thing. 



macedonianhero said:


> I'm pretty sure they're pure copper cores and plated with gold. No silver I think.


----------



## LionTamer

Hi all,
   
  Lots of interesting info in this thread!
   
  I'm just back from the Salon Son & Image show in Montreal, and spent a lot of time in the Woo room, choosing an amp to use in my first high-end headphone rig.  I had already decided on LCD-3's, so listened at the show to a few amps with them...the Woo WA6SE, the WA22 (single-ended and balanced), and the Bryston BHA-1.  I'll comment quickly on the Bryston, being that this isn't its thread...but suffice it to say that I don't get it.  Sure the DAC was different so my conclusions are somewhat clouded by that, but the Bryston just had no soul to it - no depth of texture, no "rightness".  It hit the bass notes, it hit the treble notes...but it sounded consistently strained.  
   
  When I went to the Woo room and listened to some of the same tracks as I listened to on the Bryston, on the WA6SE (which is cheaper), it sounded far better - not even close.  More texture, more ease & flow, just more like music.
   
  Having heard a variety of headphone amps at CanJam in RMAF last fall, I expected that my main interests would lie with Burson and Woo.  Unfortunately, Burson wasn't around (neither was Decware).  It was strange - most of the hi-end headphone brands were present (Stax, Sennheiser, HiFiMan, Audeze, Kingsound, Grado, etc.) - but of the renowned headphone amp companies, basically Woo was it.
   
  So I listened to the WA6SE...and then the WA22...and then back, and forth, with my LCD-3's.  To give a bit of a description of the difference between the two, both driven by the Woo DAC - the 6SE has a bit more bunch and dynamics; the WA22 has a beguiling liquidity and openness to it, with a bit more refinement on the bottom end.  Really, the WA22's liquid character is a really strong trait - I just wanted to listen and listen and listen to it.  But...at one point, Jack did me a favour and hooked up his DAC to the WA22 in both single ended and balanced connections, so that I could switch between the 2 and see what the loss is going to single ended on the 22.  You see - in order to run balanced, I would need a single-ended-to-balanced transformer/converter...and that doesn't seem like a super-easy thing deal with.  So, I wanted to check what the 22 would sound like single-ended.
   
  The result was that the WA22 single-ended sounds quite a bit like a WA6SE - just with a little less dynamics and a bit more smoothness.  But the differences were quite minimal.  Basically, you loose some resolution when you go single-ended.  Granted, I don't know if that is a deficiency of the DAC's single-ended output or of the WA22's single-ended input - but Jack suggested that would be the case, and that it was because the amp doesn't have a phase splitter on its input.  So his commonly quoted comment that you're better off with a 6SE single-ended and a 22 balanced...well, that bore fruit in my listening.  Not that the WA22 completely loses its character single-ended - it's just not enough of an improvement over the 6SE to justify the price if you can't run balanced.
   
  So I was in the weird position of having loved the 22 balanced, but choosing to get the 6SE since it fits in better with my system.  I will be picking up the show sample on Sunday at the end of the show, and will be a fellow Woozie soon!
   
  IMHO, if you have the ability to run balanced, the 22 is far superior to the 6SE and worth its extra cost.  It's fantastic in every way.
   
  It was an interesting comparison, and I am very thankful to Jack for having brought those 2 amps in black, based on our email exchange where I mentioned I would order black (and he mentioned wanting to sell show samples rather than take them home!).
   
  Now I'll go read up the 6SE thread to figure out which upgrade tubes to buy (well, I'll buy the Sofia for sure, but I want to check into the other tubes as well).


----------



## Sid-Fi

Very strong post to kick off joining the owner thread. Congratulations on getting your WA6SE and welcome!

I'm jealous you got to do what I haven't been able do even after owning a WA22 for a year, and that is hear it back and forth side by side by the WA6SE. Your description on the WA22 balanced is absolutely right on with how I hear mine. It's such a lovely amp. I plan to keep it as the center of my system for years to come. Ill upgrade my DAC and probably USB to SPDIF converter, but not likely the amp .



liontamer said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Lots of interesting info in this thread!
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ thanks for the comparision!!!! really good post, few people ever get to compare 22 with the lower woos, so its much appreciated.
   
   
  btw, did jack have any upgraded tubes on the amps when you listened to them?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Thanks. Did you like them okay while you had them, or were they not quite your thing.


 
  I liked 'em quite a bit. But then I sold my WA22 for the LF, I didn't need balanced cables anymore. Then about 4 months later I bought the GS-X, so I needed another pair of XLR cables (damn this hobby!!!). I'm using a pair of Audioquest King Cobras now and they're pretty good too. But I can't say one sticks out over the other.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Cool, thanks MH! 

So now I have your Sophia Princess and Goldy Interconnects and like them both. I wonder what's next of yours to land in my rig. 



macedonianhero said:


> I liked 'em quite a bit. But then I sold my WA22 for the LF, I didn't need balanced cables anymore. Then about 4 months later I bought the GS-X, so I needed another pair of XLR cables (damn this hobby!!!). I'm using a pair of Audioquest King Cobras now and they're pretty good too. But I can't say one sticks out over the other.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Cool, thanks MH!
> 
> So now I have your Sophia Princess and Goldy Interconnects and like them both. I wonder what's next of yours to land in my rig.


 
  LoL, I'm thinking I'm good for the next long while. But you never know.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Something about the 60 plus feedback makes me agree with the "you never know" part of that post more than the rest of it 



macedonianhero said:


> LoL, I'm thinking I'm good for the next long while. But you never know.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Something about the 60 plus feedback makes me agree with the "you never know" part of that post more than the rest of it


 
  Thus my disclaimer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (You don't want to know that there's 50+ on canuckaudiomart.ca).  But my Stax rig is stayin' put!


----------



## Sid-Fi

ROFL! 

Ether way, I'm done busting your chops though lol.



macedonianhero said:


> Thus my disclaimer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ thanks for the comparision!!!! really good post, *few people ever get to compare 22 with the lower woos*, so its much appreciated.
> 
> 
> btw, did jack have any upgraded tubes on the amps when you listened to them?


 
   
  I'm in this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 group.


----------



## grokit

Quote:  

  Welcome Liontamer, and thanks for the nice writeup!


----------



## Silent One

Can't wait for Jack Wu to return from Montreal... we gonna have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a lil' chat.


----------



## migasson

@liontamer, Bryston gear had always been a bit *yawn* for me. It's got no soul, no verve for me. I've listened to the Burson Soloist, and again, it sounds a tad toooo clean, as if its toooooo crisp. Hence why I love my WA22. Just gets that sense of rightness, clarity without sounding like a lab experiment


----------



## solserenade

grokit said:


> Welcome Liontamer, and thanks for the nice writeup!




Indeed… very nice, and Welcome!


----------



## LionTamer

Thanks for the welcome guys! Dubstep - the tubes running are all stock. The WA22 is running Sylvania 6080's and drivers (cv181's I think) along with the Shuguang rectifier. The WA6SE, which will be mine tomorrow, is running GE power tubes along with tr Shuggy.

My plan is to order the Princess rectifier, and likely the 6GL7 tubes/converters. Though I may ask if Jack has any 596's left based on the strong reviews on here.


----------



## Santo8891

I am newbie that using WA7 for now...
  maybe I'll get WA5 later on...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





liontamer said:


> Having heard a variety of headphone amps at CanJam in RMAF last fall, I expected that my main interests would lie with Burson and Woo.  Unfortunately, Burson wasn't around (neither was Decware).  It was strange - most of the hi-end headphone brands were present (Stax, Sennheiser, HiFiMan, Audeze, Kingsound, Grado, etc.) - but of the renowned headphone amp companies, basically Woo was it.
> 
> 
> So I was in the weird position of having loved the 22 balanced, but choosing to get the 6SE since it fits in better with my system.  I will be picking up the show sample on Sunday at the end of the show, and will be a fellow Woozie soon!


 
  LionTamer, congrats on your new Woo! Can't speak for any of the other brands , but Steve from Decware does not do shows. He holds his own ZenFest each October at the shop for a weekend of hanging out and listening. 
   
  Enjoy your new WA6SE! Sweet piece.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





liontamer said:


> Thanks for the welcome guys! Dubstep - the tubes running are all stock. The WA22 is running Sylvania 6080's and drivers (cv181's I think) along with the Shuguang rectifier. The WA6SE, which will be mine tomorrow, is running GE power tubes along with tr Shuggy.
> 
> My plan is to order the Princess rectifier, and likely the 6GL7 tubes/converters. Though I may ask if Jack has any 596's left based on the strong reviews on here.


 
   
  Jack has a few USAF-596 recs remaining...


----------



## WheelJohn

I am really considering of joining the Woo Audio family due to my new T1 headphone. 
  Right now there is a second hand WA6SE available near me, would like to hear some opinions on how it pairs with T1, when comparing with WA2?
  Thanks a lot!


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





wheeljohn said:


> I am really considering of joining the Woo Audio family due to my new T1 headphone.
> Right now there is a second hand WA6SE available near me, would like to hear some opinions on how it pairs with T1, when comparing with WA2?
> Thanks a lot!


 
   
  Ask and ye shall receive:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/555749/sibling-rivalry-the-woo-wa2-vs-the-woo-wa6se-review-posted-update-6-3-2011
   
  (sort of, no T1 comparison in there)


----------



## WheelJohn

Thanks Caffeinated!
  Have gone through the link quickly and find most people like T1/WA2 comb.


----------



## hodgjy

Skylab and Dubstep girl spoke very highly of the T1 + WA2 combo.
   
  Quote: 





wheeljohn said:


> I am really considering of joining the Woo Audio family due to my new T1 headphone.
> Right now there is a second hand WA6SE available near me, would like to hear some opinions on how it pairs with T1, when comparing with WA2?
> Thanks a lot!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





liontamer said:


> Thanks for the welcome guys! Dubstep - the tubes running are all stock. The WA22 is running Sylvania 6080's and drivers (cv181's I think) along with the Shuguang rectifier. The WA6SE, which will be mine tomorrow, is running GE power tubes along with tr Shuggy.
> 
> My plan is to order the Princess rectifier, and likely the 6GL7 tubes/converters. Though I may ask if Jack has any 596's left based on the strong reviews on here.


 
   
  oh ok thanks, just wanted to see what tubes where used in the comparison.
   
   
  skip the princess if you can get the 596, get the 596 and the 6GL7 or the princess and the 6FD7/6DR7.
   
  both very good combinations. i found the 596 and 6GL7 to be extremely good, my favorite in fact. for me, it took the WA6-SE to the next level, especially good if you have HiFiman or Audeze headphones. I did not enjoy the 6GL7 combined with other tubes though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Skylab and Dubstep girl spoke very highly of the T1 + WA2 combo.


 
   
  yes!
   
   
  the WA2 is an overall better pairing with T1. though the WA6-SE is a good choice too (with proper tubes, otherwise the T1 will sound a little too aggressive and bright). still theres more sweetness with the WA2, great tonality, the highs aren't harsh, and the bass is deep and strong with the WA2. the WA6-SE will be more SS like and be more detailed and spacious with the T1, though not as smooth and sweet sounding.


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





wheeljohn said:


> Thanks Caffeinated!
> Have gone through the link quickly and find most people like T1/WA2 comb.


 
   
  You're welcome!
   
  I knew about that thread because I too have been doing research with the goal of upping my head-fi game.  
   
  I just purchased a Wa2, Gungnnr DAC, and HD800's on the for sales forum yesterday.  I'm now counting the minutes until they arrive next Friday.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





caffeinatedx42 said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> I knew about that thread because I too have been doing research with the goal of upping my head-fi game.
> 
> I just purchased a Wa2, Gungnnr DAC, and HD800's on the for sales forum yesterday.  I'm now counting the minutes until they arrive next Friday.


 
   
  ^ oooh sounds like a good combo. i do enjoy my WA2/Hd800 alot, what tubes are you getting with WA2?


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ oooh sounds like a good combo. i do enjoy my WA2/Hd800 alot, what tubes are you getting with WA2?


 
   
  Tung Sol 7236 power tubes, otherwise stock.  I'll sit with that for a while before changing anything.  I wasn't really planning on getting the HD800's so I sort of blew my tube budget on those.
   
  I'm excited!  It's a big step up from the Fiio E7 & E9 combo I'm running right now.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oooh tung sol 7236, i have 2 pairs of sylvania 7236 but never tried tung sol 7236, which are supposed to be a bit warmer. i feel the 7236 is a noticeable improvement from stock 6080. 
   
  im sure you'll love your WA2 coming from a e7/e9. i came from a similar setup when i got my WA6-SE and i was blown away by the difference, this was when i had hd 650s!


----------



## Jup-Na-Keeeeeel

Has anyone had any experience with sending in a Woo Audio amp for repair? Cost & experience with Woo audio repair?

 I feel absolutely terrible right now as my Woo Wes went up in smoke this morning. I'm going to detail it below as I'd like to hear from the experts on whether or not this will be an easy fix that won't thrash my wallet (a few grand for repair would end this journey). I really don't know what to do. Perhaps one of you would like to buy a broken unit to repair if things don't go right?

 Anyway, the Wes is the fully maxed option with an HE90 port. It's feeding my Stax Sr-009 & I was using all the upgraded tubes that are for sale on the sales page. The device shorted out at half volume and I lost the audio for a split second. It came back but the left side of my Sr-009 was noticeably quieter. The top unit of the Wes started smoking shortly after and a trail of smoke came out of the XLR ports in the back of the unit. It was a burnt plastic sort of smoke and smell. All 10 tubes still functioned 100% after the burn out. From my observation the bottom portion of the amp was unharmed. The device kept power and was still able to output sound through both channels of my SR-009.

 This has sparked up my anxiety as I'm not rich by any stretch with money to blow left and right. I got my rig at an unbeatable price during a stretch where it was possible for me to jump on this unicorn rig setup. I hope I'm not screwed and need to fork over thousands for a replacement. What say you Head-fi?
   
  Quote: 





> Finally, I like the fact that the WES has no circuit boards, no ICs, and uses point-to-point wiring.  Every integrated circuit will one day fail.  Every printed circuit board will one day get a short or have a component failure.  What happens with the BHSE in 20 years when that happens?  Will Justin be around?  Hopefully... but what if he isn't?  The BHSE will become an expensive, huge, paper weight.  With the WES, you just replace the failed component.


 
   
  I read this in another thread and hope that it's as easy as what he's stating. It looks like the users ragged on him for his comment though. Come on Jack I'll hold you up like Simba from the Lion King if I can get a repair at a reasonable price! Yes I'm dramatic and yes I'm kind of crazy but don't you have to be if you decide to start messing around with high end electrostatic gear?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Posts like this every once in awhile really me make wonder if I would be better off with a WA2 over my WA22. I love a lush romantic sound and primarily listen to Jazz and acoustic with occasional downtempo electronics. The WA22 is phenomenal but not really that warm by itself unless you choose a slow syrupy rectifier like Mullard GZ37. That being said, I don't like it when music is being artificially slowed down to create the effect. I also like a fairly balanced FR. 




dubstep girl said:


> yes!
> 
> 
> the WA2 is an overall better pairing with T1. though the WA6-SE is a good choice too (with proper tubes, otherwise the T1 will sound a little too aggressive and bright). still theres more sweetness with the WA2, great tonality, the highs aren't harsh, and the bass is deep and strong with the WA2. the WA6-SE will be more SS like and be more detailed and spacious with the T1, though not as smooth and sweet sounding.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jup-na-keeeeeel said:


>


 
   
  transformer blew or something? 
   
  hopefully jack can fix it without charging u half the cost of the amp. im sure he has excellent service though, just not many people have sent their amps in for repair, which in itself is a good sign! 
   
   
   



sid-fi said:


> Posts like this every once in awhile really me make wonder if I would be better off with a WA2 over my WA22. I love a lush romantic sound and primarily listen to Jazz and acoustic with occasional downtempo electronics. The WA22 is phenomenal but not really that warm by itself unless you choose a slow syrupy rectifier like Mullard GZ37. That being said, I don't like it when music is being artificially slowed down to create the effect. I also like a fairly balanced FR.


   
  likewise your response makes me wonder if maybe the WA22 is not the amp for me, since it seems to be more WA6-SEish rather than WA2ish. though it seems the WA22 is somewhere in between, which would be good. i find the WA2 to have perfect tonality and warmth/sweetness, but could use a bit more detail and control.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> Has anyone had any experience with sending in a Woo Audio amp for repair? Cost & experience with Woo audio repair?
> 
> I feel absolutely terrible right now as my Woo Wes went up in smoke this morning. I'm going to detail it below as I'd like to hear from the experts on whether or not this will be an easy fix that won't thrash my wallet (a few grand for repair would end this journey). I really don't know what to do. Perhaps one of you would like to buy a broken unit to repair if things don't go right?
> 
> ...


 
   
  The fear of the unknown carnage and the expense tagged with it, is understandable. Jack will be returning shortly from the Montreal Audio show this weekend and will lend a helping hand. I'd encourage you to send it in, otherwise you'd have to rely on speculation.


----------



## GrindingThud

Hopefully just a capacitor....they do stink like plastic when they go up.



jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> ....It was a burnt plastic sort of smoke and smell


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> likewise your response makes me wonder if maybe the WA22 is not the amp for me, since it seems to be more WA6-SEish rather than WA2ish. though it seems the WA22 is somewhere in between, which would be good. i find the WA2 to have perfect tonality and warmth/sweetness, but could use a bit more detail and control.


 
   
  I haven't had a chance to compare personally. But when Woo says the WA22 is their "most euphonic" amp, I interpret that as meaning that it has the least personality of it's own. Meaning that it takes on the character of the tubes that are in it more than any other Woo amp. In my experience, this seems to be the case. The WA22 is a tube chameleon of the highest order.


----------



## Silent One

I found my_ WA 6 Special Edition_ to be clear, focused, dynamic and packing a punch! And the WA22 to be a bit more sweet and dreamy with punch when called for.


----------



## migasson

@sid-fi.. I have a WA22, and wouldn't change it. Right now to better it, I'd have to go up seriously in price. (Law of diminishing returns) WA2 I'm sure is bloody fantastic, but for the extra cost would a rectifier change bring a better cost/change of sound ratio? I have a LCD-2, so if I want a warmer sound, I'm considering buying a supplementary Grado GS1000i..


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> Has anyone had any experience with sending in a Woo Audio amp for repair? Cost & experience with Woo audio repair?
> 
> I feel absolutely terrible right now as my Woo Wes went up in smoke this morning. I'm going to detail it below as I'd like to hear from the experts on whether or not this will be an easy fix that won't thrash my wallet (a few grand for repair would end this journey). I really don't know what to do. Perhaps one of you would like to buy a broken unit to repair if things don't go right?
> 
> ...


 
   
  When I had to send back a bad 596 tube, communication was slow, but the issue was resolved satisfactorily (but the tube was identified as bad at the first use).
   
  I expect everything will work out ok for you.


----------



## WheelJohn

Thanks Dubstep girl !
I guess I will just pass the WA6SE this time then. 
Really hard to find a second hard WA2 here in UK, and the import tax is kinds of putting me off from buying directly from Woo Audio. Maybe I just need some more patience.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Good point. I have indeed noticed that different tubes sound starkly different than others in my WA22.



grokit said:


> I haven't had a chance to compare personally. But when Woo says the WA22 is their "most euphonic" amp, I interpret that as meaning that it has the least personality of it's own. Meaning that it takes on the character of the tubes that are in it more than any other Woo amp. In my experience, this seems to be the case. The WA22 is a tube chameleon of the highest order.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Yeah, I'm sure there tubes that could add some warmth. However, my Sophia Princess is my favorite so far after having tried five different ones or so. Maybe an EML would be good. Prt of the issue is I loved the smoothness of the D18 DAC I had. The Gungnir is good, but now there is less warmth overall. Not bad, just pretty neutral while I prefer some warmth added in.



migasson said:


> @sid-fi.. I have a WA22, and wouldn't change it. Right now to better it, I'd have to go up seriously in price. (Law of diminishing returns) WA2 I'm sure is bloody fantastic, but for the extra cost would a rectifier change bring a better cost/change of sound ratio? I have a LCD-2, so if I want a warmer sound, I'm considering buying a supplementary Grado GS1000i..


----------



## Sid-Fi

Hmm, just rolled in my RCA VT-231 smoke glass driver tubes and they may be a better match. I consider them lush tubes, but had settled on Sylvania GTA before switching to Gungnir. However, now I'm hearing a closer sound to my preference. Hopefully it's that easy, but listening to a wider selection if music will be needed to know. I guess rolling tubes can be easier than rolling DACs lol. 

The challenge is you naturally settle in on tubes that proved best end sound, so when you switch a major component it can throw that out of whack. Then your assessing new gear unfairly in a way. 



sid-fi said:


> Yeah, I'm sure there tubes that could add some warmth. However, my Sophia Princess is my favorite so far after having tried five different ones or so. Maybe an EML would be good. Prt of the issue is I loved the smoothness of the D18 DAC I had. The Gungnir is good, but now there is less warmth overall. Not bad, just pretty neutral while I prefer some warmth added in.


----------



## Jup-Na-Keeeeeel

Thanks everybody. It was fresh on my mind but now I'm feeling good about it. I just had to go and speculate but in the end I'm sure I'll have nothing to worry about. If I could I'd lend out my rig to each and everyone of you, just so you could experience the sound. Yes people love the BHSE but a fully maxxed Wes for less than the stock amp price, I say I came out ahead. I almost feel guilty. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I could have never imagined experiencing sound reproduction like this within my lifetime. Plus I've a good sixty years ahead of me to listen & love. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you all.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Sounds like an elite setup you have there. I sure wish you could send to me as well. 



jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> Thanks everybody. It was fresh on my mind but now I'm feeling good about it. I just had to go and speculate but in the end I'm sure I'll have nothing to worry about. If I could I'd lend out my rig to each and everyone of you, just so you could experience the sound. Yes people love the BHSE but a fully maxxed Wes for less than the stock amp price, I say I came out ahead. I almost feel guilty.
> 
> I could have never imagined experiencing sound reproduction like this within my lifetime. Plus I've a good sixty years ahead of me to listen & love.  Thank you all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Sounds like an elite setup you have there. I sure wish you could send to me as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, if he decides to sell it to me, then I'LL have to see about sending it.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Please do . 

That's a cool little fact about your avatar. 



silent one said:


> Well, if he decides to sell it to me, then I'LL have to see about sending it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Please do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks. The first time I saw her perform was some moons back when she was a guest and sat in with the Emerill Live Band. Made a few more appearances and I enjoyed the exchanges her and Emerill had. Sometimes, she flips the guitar and plays it upside down but holding it the same way.


----------



## Redcarmoose

_*





 Still love my first Woo girlfriend.*_


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Dubstep Girl

i honestly couldn't tell if that was a WA3 or WA6 till i paid really close attention to the tubes.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i honestly couldn't tell if that was a WA3 or WA6 till i paid really close attention to the tubes.


 

 It is the 1st generation 3 with the pre-outs. If you looked up the photographs meta-data it would have been there too.


----------



## Clayton SF

Do you remember when Jack offered some of his amps in different colors other than silver and black. Was it red, green, and yellow?


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Very nice, indeed.


----------



## LionTamer

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> skip the princess if you can get the 596, get the 596 and the 6GL7 or the princess and the 6FD7/6DR7.
> 
> both very good combinations. i found the 596 and 6GL7 to be extremely good, my favorite in fact. for me, it took the WA6-SE to the next level, especially good if you have HiFiman or Audeze headphones. I did not enjoy the 6GL7 combined with other tubes though.


 
   
  Just a quick update...I took your advise and ordered 596 and 6GL7 with adapters.  I figure that I can try the Princess at a later date if I want - but now's the time if I want to try the 596.  It's nice that I got the amp with the stock tubes first, so when the upgrade tubes arrive I'll get...well...an upgrade!  A nice thing with this amp - the teflon tube sockets are the best I've ever dealt with, and will take a lot of the stress out of tube rolling.
   
  I've hooked up the amp within my system now, and am listening for the first time (well...the first time was earlier today).  The sound is sublime - a nice combination of dynamics/punch, and the wonderful liquidity and depth of detail that my preamp (Shindo Monbrison) and DAC (Wavelength Cosecant) are contributing over and above what I heard in the demo Woo setup.  There is no brightness, no boomy bass, just wonderful music reproduced all along the bandwidth.  This is exactly what I was hoping for - to be able to add a top-notch headphone system to my setup without compromising the 2-channel setup I already own, and in fact while taking advantage of it as much as possible.  All I'm doing is transferring the cable from the preamp and power cable between the WA6-SE and my VTL speaker amp.
   
  I have to say - Jack was great to deal with, and a super nice guy to talk with.  He made no effort to upsell me to a WA22, and he kept his word in holding off the wolves who were circling MY WA6-SE wanting to buy it between when I committed and when he asked me to pick it up...suffice it to say, he could have easily sold a half dozen of these had he brought them.  I think that an SET tube amp that can drive LCD's, and sound great doing it, for $1K is really a sweet spot with few competitors.
   
  I'm subscribed to this thread now, happily listening to the new Django Django album that has had a lot of time on the 2-channel setup recently.  It's a very nice and different experience to listen on this setup as an alternative to the "big" system!  It's a nice combination of audiophile sound quality, and where I started with this passion for listening to good music (my old walkman/discman days).


----------



## JohnnyCrash8

Has anyone here tried the WA3 with Grado Sr325is cans? If so how did it sound?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote:  
   
  awesome!  it'll get even better when the 596 and 6GL7 arrive.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> _*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm with you on this!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Nice one!


----------



## atomicbob

+1

WA3+ is in my never sell collection. An extraordinary OTL amp.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Do you remember when Jack offered some of his amps in different colors other than silver and black. Was it red, green, and yellow?


 
  The photographs can be found on-line. The colors are black, silver, red, gold, blue. We have posted a photograph of all of them in a row here before. I'm too lazy to find it again. Jack said he would make me a red W5 LE if I wanted one. Upgrade for extrusion color about $350.00 usd. Gold would be super cool!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

red/gold wa2 would of been sweet!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> red/gold wa2 would of been sweet!


 
  You maybe could mix em and made an amp look like the Partridge Family School bus lol.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
   
  Wow, they have exactly all the colors if you just replace the yellow for gold and white for silver.. You know you want one!


----------



## migasson

I do love my Sophia 274B.. However, I do get curious about the odd bargain.. Anyone tried a NOS Sylvania 5u4g in a WA22?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Woo virgin but long time valve nut here. I took delivery a few weeks ago of a WA22 black. I have to say it is an exceptional device but has benefitted from some break in and tube rolling.
   
  The stock Shu Guang 274 I did not like at all. Stock 6080s were fine but got swapped quuickly. The CBS Hytron 6SN7GTBs were good. Everything has been rolled several times now and the current combination is singing sweetly.
   
  I have had excellent results with Brimar 5R4G and some GZ tubes. I will try some GZ37 fat bottle tomorrow but currently I like the Brimar 5R4G. I have loads more '5U4Gs' to try so is early days.
  
  Some metal base CV1988 (GEC manufacture I think) have been sublime that were boxless and hanging around. TS round plates were good and will roll some 5692 next. All of the NOS 6SN7GTs I have tried so far have been at least good.
   
  7236 proved to be excellent as were 5998s. Amp has been transformed by GEC 6AS7Gs however, less powerful but such sweetness and delicacy.
   
  Lots more rolling still to do but initial play have shown huge potential here. I am a fan. Looking at other Woo stuff now....


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





migasson said:


> I do love my Sophia 274B.. However, I do get curious about the odd bargain.. Anyone tried a NOS Sylvania 5u4g in a WA22?


 

  Could easily get one in to try for you, know I have 40s production VT 244 here.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Welcome to the club. It sounds like you will fit in nicely be a very welcome addition to the Woo owners thread!
   
  I'm a fellow WA22 owner, and have done some rolling myself. However, it sounds like you have a MUCH larger assortment to work with . One of the things that has really suprised me, is how much changing a single component can make on which tubes work best. I recently switched DACs and am finding that tubes that I had written off and put in a drawer sound much better now than my favorites with the last DAC.
   
  Look forward to your future rolling updates.
  Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> Woo virgin but long time valve nut here. I took delivery a few weeks ago of a WA22 black. I have to say it is an exceptional device but has benefitted from some break in and tube rolling.
> 
> The stock Shu Guang 274 I did not like at all. Stock 6080s were fine but got swapped quuickly. The CBS Hytron 6SN7GTBs were good. Everything has been rolled several times now and the current combination is singing sweetly.
> 
> ...


----------



## LiuTim

Anyone tried PSVANE WE274B? How does it compare to EML or Sophia?


----------



## Jup-Na-Keeeeeel

Wish me luck y'all! Just sent the Wes back to Woo Audio for repair. In the meantime here's a couple shots of the setup:
   

   

   

   
  Still needs a little touch up in places but there's the battlestation setup in the media room.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> Wish me luck y'all! Just sent the Wes back to Woo Audio for repair. In the meantime here's a couple shots of the setup:


 
   
  You do know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 that the next photograph you see of this WES could very well be inside my listening room, don't you?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, wishing you the best of luck!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





liutim said:


> Anyone tried PSVANE WE274B? How does it compare to EML or Sophia?


 
   
   
  not much talk about this tube.
   
  would be interesting to know since its cheaper than both.


----------



## Silent One

I'm aware of a few members here that have tried it - they'll need a chance to log-on and see the post.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I have one of those. From memory, it's a very airy sound, highly detailed and euphonic, lots of separation and space to the soundstage but a bit lacking in bass/body for my tastes. I'll have to try it again at some point, if I don't like it any better I will put it in the to be sold pile. It's a very nice tube if you're into that kind of sound, it reminds me of the effect of the GEC 5U4G power tubes to some extent--which I wasn't crazy about either--but some really covet that kind of sound. Come to think of it I should combine the GECs with it and the HD800 to see if I get launched into outer space of something!


----------



## Sid-Fi

Oooooo....that sounds interesting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have one of those. From memory, it's a very airy sound, highly detailed and euphonic, lots of separation and space to the soundstage but a bit lacking in bass/body for my tastes. I'll have to try it again at some point, if I don't like it any better I will put it in the to be sold pile. It's a very nice tube if you're into that kind of sound, it reminds me of the effect of the GEC 5U4G power tubes to some extent--which I wasn't crazy about either--but some really covet that kind of sound. Come to think of it I should combine the GECs with it and the HD800 to see if I get launched into outer space of something!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Oooooo....that sounds interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Far out, man...


----------



## grokit

Now that I don't have the EMLs anymore, it's probably my most euphonic rectifier. They are very different but euphonically it's close to a tie. Since I am using the WA22 mostly as a preamp now, I should give it a try with the GECs and my TSRP BG's; I think that would be my _most euphonic combo_ and I do need to see how that would affect the rest of the chain. I'll wait until I get my turntable and Lambdas back from the shops, then it will be _listening time!_


----------



## apollo11

How does a wa6se compare with w6. if you change all its tube to say the Sophia rectifier will it improve more its soundstaging, ambience, the aggressiveness or its transparency. Are there percentages can be said that it is 10 to 20% greater in sound quality than wa6. Will the power really change a lot in this kind of situation. I thought the newer wa6 has what you call a Pseudo-dual power supply. would they bring enough power to drive high impedance phones such as akg702 or the LCD. Or is it a must that you get wa6 se to bring the full capacity of the headphone?


----------



## migasson

@dubstepgirl see if I can tempt you to spend more money





[/IMG][/IMG]


----------



## migasson




----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @dubstepgirl see if I can tempt you to spend more money[IMG][attach]814322[/attach][/quote]
> 
> WA22
> 
> [img]http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


----------



## Sid-Fi

If only I could remember what euphonic really means. For now, I take comfort in knowing that my WA22 is the most of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Now that I don't have the EMLs anymore, it's probably my most euphonic rectifier. They are very different but euphonically it's close to a tie. Since I am using the WA22 mostly as a preamp now, I should give it a try with the GECs and my TSRP BG's; I think that would be my _most euphonic combo_ and I do need to see how that would affect the rest of the chain. I'll wait until I get my turntable and Lambdas back from the shops, then it will be _listening time!_


----------



## migasson

@sid-fi.. Yep. Can't see why I would want to sell mine.. Only for perhaps to try a pair of Stax then again there are LCD-3's to upgrade to


----------



## jsgraha

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @sid-fi.. Yep. Can't see why I would want to sell mine.. Only for perhaps to try a pair of Stax then again there are LCD-3's to upgrade to


 
  or TH900


----------



## LiuTim

grokit said:


> I have one of those. From memory, it's a very airy sound, highly detailed and euphonic, lots of separation and space to the soundstage but a bit lacking in bass/body for my tastes. I'll have to try it again at some point, if I don't like it any better I will put it in the to be sold pile. It's a very nice tube if you're into that kind of sound, it reminds me of the effect of the GEC 5U4G power tubes to some extent--which I wasn't crazy about either--but some really covet that kind of sound. Come to think of it I should combine the GECs with it and the HD800 to see if I get launched into outer space of something!




Thank you. I decided to put my paws on the EML 5u4gM. But somebody told me that the metal base Philips GZ34 tubes are much better than the EML's. I'm just wondering.....


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> The photographs can be found on-line. The colors are black, silver, red, gold, blue. We have posted a photograph of all of them in a row here before. I'm too lazy to find it again. Jack said he would make me a red W5 LE if I wanted one. Upgrade for extrusion color about $350.00 usd. Gold would be super cool!


 
   
   
  a red wa5 le?  too bad i didn't ask but there would be hot


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> a red wa5 le?  too bad i didn't ask but there would be hot


 

 It would stand out at a show!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> It would stand out at a show!


----------



## grokit

nvm


----------



## Silent One

But, it's gonna stand out anyway. Might as well select the absence of colour which is...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But, it's gonna stand out anyway. Might as well select the absence of colour which is...


 

 Once you go black.....................................................................


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  O-h 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 baby!


----------



## GrindingThud

I put this over in the I-20 thread also: I've been working to suppress stray noise, induced noise, and power supply noise in my WA3+ and noticed a weird phenomena between the I-20 and the Woo. When I touch just the tip of my headphone plug (HD 550) to the ring of the jack on the woo I can hear a faint 'snick' and 120Hz background on the level of bearly perceptible. This is with power off on the Woo. If I disconnect the I-20, it vanishes. It also goes away when I unplug the wall wart for the I-20. I'm assuming this is some sort of ground loop or PS noise from the wart. Tried all kinds of plugology and it persists. The part I found really weird is I can hear it with only one pole of the headphones connected. Thoughts?


----------



## hodgjy

My WA3 is the most sensitive and finicky amp I've ever experienced.  I can get ground loop hums if I even touch the table it's sitting on.  If I'm wearing my Fostex orthos, and I move within a few feet of the amp, I get all kinds of crackles and hums.  If I move away, the sounds go away.
   
  It's a strange amp indeed.
   
  Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I put this over in the I-20 thread also: I've been working to suppress stray noise, induced noise, and power supply noise in my WA3+ and noticed a weird phenomena between the I-20 and the Woo. When I touch just the tip of my headphone plug (HD 550) to the ring of the jack on the woo I can hear a faint 'snick' and 120Hz background on the level of bearly perceptible. This is with power off on the Woo. If I disconnect the I-20, it vanishes. It also goes away when I unplug the wall wart for the I-20. I'm assuming this is some sort of ground loop or PS noise from the wart. Tried all kinds of plugology and it persists. The part I found really weird is I can hear it with only one pole of the headphones connected. Thoughts?


----------



## GrindingThud

What I find with the WA3 is it amplifies what goes in very well. Poor source and cables is readily reflected in the output, as is almost every recording artifact I've never noticed before. In tracking this one with the I-20, I did discover Woo ties signal ground and chassis/earth ground together in the amp. So, it appears the I-20 with its two prong wart and Woo with 3 prong earth have different references. Interesting. I may need to do some web research and see how other mainstream and high end audio manufacturers reference ground. Sounds like a good reason for balanced inputs and outputs. 


			
				hodgjy said:
			
		

> .My WA3 is the most sensitive and finicky amp I've ever experienced.  I can get ground loop hums if I even touch the table it's sitting on.  If I'm wearing my Fostex orthos, and I move within a few feet of the amp, I get all kinds of crackles and hums.  If I move away, the sounds go away.
> 
> It's a strange amp indeed.


----------



## hodgjy

This seems like it would explain the ground hum when I touch the table.  Also, my sources into are not grounded, so that may be a contributing factor as well.
   
  Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> What I find with the WA3 is it amplifies what goes in very well. Poor source and cables is readily reflected in the output, as is almost every recording artifact I've never noticed before. In tracking this one with the I-20, *I did discover Woo ties signal ground and chassis/earth ground together in the amp.* So, it appears the I-20 with its two prong wart and Woo with 3 prong earth have different references. Interesting. I may need to do some web research and see how other mainstream and high end audio manufacturers reference ground. Sounds like a good reason for balanced inputs and outputs.


----------



## john57

Sounds like that you do not even have a working single grounding point at all. The two prong wart just means that the ground is floating unless it is using Woo earth grounding when connected by cables. Check your ground wire in the Woo power cord and also make sure that the power outlet ground is connected to a earth ground and not tied to the neutral. It is a bit risky to have a tube amp with no ground since a malfunction could put high voltage on the chassis.
  I


----------



## hodgjy

Could be.  But when I use power strips, all indicate solid grounds.  My WA3 is the only device that gives me problems.  I'll take a closer look into what may be the cause.  I never really looked all that closely into it because it rarely gets used these days.
   
  Thanks for your insight.
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> Sounds like that you do not even have a working single grounding point at all. The two prong wart just means that the ground is floating unless it is using Woo earth grounding when connected by cables. Check your ground wire in the Woo power cord and also make sure that the power outlet ground is connected to a earth ground and not tied to the neutral. It is a bit risky to have a tube amp with no ground since a malfunction could put high voltage on the chassis.
> I


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

moving to a more appropriate thread.


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Moving to a more appropriate thread


----------



## Silent One

If anyone here attends the New York Audio Show next week, please make sure to check out the WooAudio WA234 mono amp. I am very curious about this new amp...


----------



## Jup-Na-Keeeeeel

Quote: 





jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> Has anyone had any experience with sending in a Woo Audio amp for repair? Cost & experience with Woo audio repair?


 
  Just got a repair cost back from Woo as they received my Wes. The quote was an extremely reasonable repair cost. Since it's an older build, they're also giving me the option for power supply change and modification of the DC cord which should help the prevent the amp from over-heating.
   
  I'm torn between the two options as the makeover is also reasonably priced at $350+shipping. I just don't want the sound to become altered especially after spending some time with the unit. To repair the blown transistors it would be just $150+shipping.
   
  I'm leaning towards just a straight repair but would like to hear others opinions on whether or not the PSU upgrade would be worth it. Oh and don't use UPS to ship as the unit arrived with some knicks and the power supply knobs effed up during shipment(mainly my fault because of the packing material
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). It's mainly my fault but it's no concern as I don't plan to sit and stare at the device. It's there for listening not looking.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ wow thats a very reasonable cost. good to know if any of my woo amps ever need service i won't end up paying half the cost of a new amp.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> as I don't plan to sit and stare at the device. It's there for listening not looking.


 
  Oh I beg to differ.....Woo amps are meant to be visually admired  WHILE you are listening to them....


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> Oh I beg to differ.....Woo amps are meant to be visually admired  WHILE you are listening to them....


 
   
  X2!

 Looking at my Woo WA6 SE whilst listening to music makes the experience that much better!
   
  I would hate it if it was just a plain box.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

ha, I saw a post on another forum where someone was complaining that Woo amps don't come with tube guards, so burning yourself on hot tubes is a concern......I kid you not  ....which would, of course, totally ruin the asthetic qualities of the Woo line...
   
  Hey, sometimes you have to suffer a little to appreciate truly great art!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





crazyray said:


> X2!
> Looking at my Woo WA6 SE whilst listening to music makes the experience that much better!
> I would hate it if it was just a plain box.


 

 I would find it very difficult to look at your WA6 SE with that beautiful tape deck hovering over it. Now there's a beauty


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> ha, I saw a post on another forum where someone was complaining that Woo amps don't come with tube guards, so burning yourself on hot tubes is a concern......I kid you not  ....which would, of course, totally ruin the asthetic qualities of the Woo line...
> 
> Hey, sometimes you have to suffer a little to appreciate truly great art!


 
   
  The lack of tube guards was the first thing that attracted me to Woo Audio.  The exposed tubes are beautiful and retro. 
   
  Why people put tube guards on amps and ruin the looks baffles me.  Or even stranger; putting the tubes completely inside the amp so they are visible only through a window like the Vincent Audio KVH-1.
http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/product-lines/powerline/khv-1.html


----------



## 930Blue

Anyone have any suggestions for a good balanced interconnect that would work well with a WA22?  My budget is around $1000 list for a 1 meter pair which I will probably try to find used for $400-$600.


----------



## migasson

Yeah, I would love to try an interconnect worth that much. However, I'm a bit of a tight arse when it comes to cables, so I bought Mogami Studio Gold XLR's ... Cost me $75 AUS.. apparently recording studios use this, and it reviews well on websites too. Then of course there's the age old argument as to whether cables make a generous improvement or not


----------



## grokit

Monster Cable Studiolink, even less expensive


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jup-na-keeeeeel said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry to hear about your amp's bumps & bruises. I'm sure over the weekend you'll make the right decision. Even if this means sending me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a PM to discuss your third option...


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





930blue said:


> Anyone have any suggestions for a good balanced interconnect that would work well with a WA22?  My budget is around $1000 list for a 1 meter pair which I will probably try to find used for $400-$600.


 
  I know cables are an argument waiting to happen.  I am in the camp of "get quality cable from a reliable source, and don't buy marketing".  I get ALL of my cables for any interconnect for audio/video from BlueJeans cable(the exception being headphone cables).  The owner has been an engineer for 20 years and is a great source of information.  I bought a 6' pair of balanced interconnects to run from my Woo DPS-1 DAC to my WA22 from them and the price was ~$70 for the pair....great stuff(I even had my choice of 5 colors!!)


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





z06_pilot said:


> I know cables are an argument waiting to happen.  I am in the camp of "get quality cable from a reliable source, and don't buy marketing".  I get ALL of my cables for any interconnect for audio/video from BlueJeans cable(the exception being headphone cables).  The owner has been an engineer for 20 years and is a great source of information.  I bought a 6' pair of balanced interconnects to run from my Woo DPS-1 DAC to my WA22 from them and the price was ~$70 for the pair....great stuff(I even had my choice of 5 colors!!)


 
  +1 for BJC.


----------



## grokit

Mac Hero always raved about the Kimber Hero XLRs with his WA22, they cost a few bucks but are still considered somewhat of a value proposition in comparison to some.


----------



## atomicbob

+2 on Blue Jeans Cables. 
@migasson - the common studio interconnect is Neutrik xlrf to xlrm with either belden, canare or mogami shielded twisted pair or star quad cable. Very effective at minimizing EMI/RFI while preserving the signal. The gold pins are a plus to avoid issues with oxidation, a real concern where salt air is present. You are all set.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





930blue said:


> Anyone have any suggestions for a good balanced interconnect that would work well with a WA22?  My budget is around $1000 list for a 1 meter pair which I will probably try to find used for $400-$600.


 
   
  Honestly I would go with something from Monoprice and put the money into headphones and tubes-- or better yet some vintage records-- where you'll get the most bang for your buck.


----------



## migasson

@atomicbob.. Cheers! Yeah, I did read about those others, Canare, and Belden, what swayed me was that I got the Mogamis close to home it was a musicians shop too, when I told the salesperson what you could buy hi-fi XLR'S for, he swore, then his jaw dropped!!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @atomicbob.. Cheers! Yeah, I did read about those others, Canare, and Belden, what swayed me was that I got the Mogamis close to home it was a musicians shop too, when_* I told the salesperson what you could buy hi-fi XLR'S *_for, he swore, then his jaw dropped!!


 
  I have way more money in cables than headphones?How did that happen?


----------



## migasson

@redcarmoose..Hahaha.. Yeah, how did that happen?!


----------



## Thaddy

Another recommendation for Blue Jeans Cables.  All of my digital and stereo cables are BJC and I have zero complaints.


----------



## Wapiti

Balanced mic cables are a superb choice.  I make my own (most of us seriously involved with recording do) but an excellent source for custom cables is Pro Audio L.A.
   
Click here for a list of standard XLR to XLR options.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

I like a fairly nice cable too, but I would reconsider spending approx. half of the value of the actual amplifier just on the interconnects (unless your amp has upgraded internal wiring at same level of expense on the other, inside end of the XLR connector....)
   
  Personally, I wanted easily available short cables at a good price (i.e. nicer than Monoprice, but not nearly at "audiophile" cost), so I got 2 Zaes silver interconnects (rated for AES/EBU, but from what I've read that's not an issue, more the opposite, and certainly not at that length). They use nice high-quality Neutrik plugs, don't really care one way or the other about the cable being silver, and certainly don't think they sound "brighter". I've used them with a couple of different balanced DACs to my WA22 and like them just fine. 3ft is about the perfect length with the 2 next to each other (I also got 1ft one for actual AES/EBU use, that one's definitely too short for that setup)


----------



## groovyd

still waiting on my WA7 ordered Feb 24th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... no word from anyone...


----------



## mogour

I would try dh-lab revelation I have the air matrix and I saw very good improvement when switched to this cable on my Wa22. They are very easy to find (on ebay). Power cable also improved the sound in my case I have the decware reference silver which I find is a great value and combined very well with the amp.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





mogour said:


> I would try dh-lab revelation I have the air matrix and I saw very good improvement when switched to this cable on my Wa22. They are very easy to find (on ebay). Power cable also improved the sound in my case I have the decware reference silver which I find is a great value and combined very well with the amp.


 

 I'm on the fanatical side of the cable debate. The pro-cable side. Still I feel that it's not just a little change with the right cables. In short, cables are everything. On some Woo products the power cords are even more important in improving the sound than RCAs. Each amp by Woo has it's own inherent power cord scale-up potential to be discovered by the owner.
   
  The scale-up inherent power cord potential of the WA 5LE was/is mind-bending.


----------



## Silent One

Redcarmoose ~
   
  What power cord did you select to your satisfaction with the Woo? Being a satisfied D7000 owner, your review left me with a BIG Country kool-aid grin on my face. I'm very close to trying this for myself... _maybe. _


----------



## Wapiti

I, too, am curious as to what you found best for the 5LE.
   
  Do you have any observations as to what characteristics of a power cord improve the sound on this unit?


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> The scale-up inherent power cord potential of the WA 5LE was/is mind-bending.


 
   
  Mind-bending?  Isn't that a _slight_ overstatement?  A power chord fundamentally changed the sound characteristic of the _entire_ amp?
   
  Look, I'll go along with a slight alteration or improvement from a cable or cord-- But this notion that suddenly the entire amp changes-- octaves and harmonics suddenly become available in the music that could never before be reproduced?  That's pretty tough to swallow.
   
  I should note that I'm a WA5LE owner, too.  So I'm very interested in this discussion.
   
  Have you done any blind a/b comparisons?  I'd love to see 10 blind tests in a row-- and see how many times the power cord is chosen.  
   
  I'm not trying to be mean or snarky, I promise.  I just can't see a cable making a massive substantial change.  Cable changes to my ear are a matter of slight incremental changes, not massive overhauls to sound.
   
  Spend your money on what you want-- it's a free country.  Lord knows I've thrown thousands at my amps in a effort to try and eek a little more out of them-- I'm as guilty as the next guy.  But I put the money where it will make the largest substantial changes-- tubes, headphones, and music.  
   
  I seriously welcome other opinions-- I'm wiling to be convinced.


----------



## Rawrbington

I'm convinced that the potentials of a cable are somewhat limited by the internal wirings of your amp/source/speaker device.

I like this belief.
It saves me a lot of money


----------



## mogour

just experiment it and you will find that every cables will change the sound. I got 4 different power cable and I ear every sound signature that they have to offer. The most obvious differences was when I bought a silver power cable because (one thing that it was louder at the same volume level and the sound was more 3 dimentionnal and clearer). I don't think that we have to spend thousands to see changes but I think your amplifier as to be transparent (I saw greater differences with my woo wa22 than my home theatre speakers which are outlaw audio lcr and are connected to the same dac).


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Mind-bending?  Isn't that a _slight_ overstatement?  A power chord fundamentally changed the sound characteristic of the _entire_ amp?
> . . .
> I just can't see a cable making a massive substantial change.


 
  I, too, am skeptical.  Thus, I am curious as to what he finds to be such a vast improvement and the theory as to why.


----------



## Rawrbington

So Far Away
  is probably one
  of my favorite recording/mixing jobs
  sounds killer with my 6SE
  sounds even better through my speakers
  but
  im currently enjoying
  it through the woo.
  killing hte 20 minutes
  of boring half time
  in this final 4
  game
   
  cheers
  enjoy the music
  with silver cables
  or clothes hangers
  turn it up


----------



## GrindingThud

While chasing ground loops and induced power supply noise from other devices, I found a computer power cord with a ferrite noise block on it worked well to keep interference from my CFL and LED table lamps out of my WA3. I'm not a believer in exotic power supply cables....the power generated from the plant traverses the country on unshielded naked cables of copper, aluminum, and gets switched through buzzing arcing knife switches at every street corner. When it finally comes into the house it rides hundreds of feet of unshielded parallel 14ga romex throughout all the walls with other stuff on the circuit generating spikes and noise. There is nothing clean or sacred about the power at the wall. The most impactful thing you can do is keep the noise out using a power conditioner, filter, or at least a choke. WA3 ties signal ground to chassis ground and it goes through the power cable to earth ground....it needs to be filtered. As for silver unobtanium power cables......what about the other 60 miles of the circuit? :rolleyes: 
Isolation is the key.



wapiti said:


> I, too, am skeptical.  Thus, I am curious as to what he finds to be such a vast improvement and the theory as to why.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I, too, am curious as to what you found best for the 5LE.
> 
> _*Do you have any observations as to what characteristics of a power cord improve the sound on this unit?*_


 
  This is a very controversial but after being a long time non-cable believer I came across a Head-Fi member with stuff to try. Needless to say the Woo 5 LE sounded different. I wanted to post only because it was the biggest change I found. Bigger than another CD player or phono pre. The same cable change-outs to my little Woo 3 were so small that, you could kind of hear a little difference but not enough to warrant buying an expensive cable. The other disclaimer I must include is I really haven't tried all that many cables. Also I have moved away from any places to go to meets or purchase more audiophile gear. I would need to take an hour and a half flight to Singapore to make any future purchases, even new headphones.
   
  I really am kinda a fanatic, also I am not sure about this whole placebo/reality effect from cables. I am just reporting my changes. So much so, if somebody heard a cable with an amp at a show, then went home and decided that the changes were worth it. They could feel free to spend a considerable amount of money, buying a cable mail-order, and the cables will affect there amp performance at home just like they remember from the show.
   
  To answer the above question, my amp was warm and slow ( limited Prat ) with my original set-up. My original set up was everything in my signature minus cables of any high quality type.
  Due to maybe the 300bs the sound was still nice. It was buttery and smooth. It was one of those things where you don't now what you  were missing till you find out how great the sound can change.
   
  1) Increase of sound-stage and detail in sound stage.
  2) Increase in dampening, resulting in an over all tightness of response, giving a 3D detail to the bass tracks, also giving the sound stage an an area of space where the bass tracks could be seen and located.
  3) Deeper and more detailed bass response.
  4) Harmonic toned reverberation to drum recordings.
  5) Sparkle to the high-hats.
  6) Over all mental engagement and interlock.
  7) Complete detail.
  8) Removal of any audio lag.
  9) More natural overall integration of all instruments and voices.
   
  When I list this, just remember that my system is not the best I have ever heard. These are just the improvements I found in my rig. I am happy with the results I have and feel content not to have spent crazy money for more SQ. What happened was that cables cured all my major issues I had.
  To answer your question.
  I didn't try a bunch of cables but the "Fat Boy" listed in my sig is what I use. The Epiphany power cord in my sig I would use second if the "Fat-Boy" failed. I'm just posting this so that maybe folks with a Woo 3 don't expect the world to change. Also somebody with a 5 or 5LE could keep trying different cords until they hit gold. They are out there. Another member also changed his umbilical cord from the power supply to the amp, which I believe could also do wonders, but have not done.
  Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Mind-bending?  Isn't that a _slight_ overstatement?  A power chord fundamentally changed the sound characteristic of the _entire_ amp?
> 
> Look, I'll go along with a slight alteration or improvement from a cable or cord-- But this notion that suddenly the entire amp changes-- octaves and harmonics suddenly become available in the music that could never before be reproduced?  That's pretty tough to swallow.
> 
> ...


 
  I only humbly ask you to try a bunch of cords. When you have come back and post your findings. I'm sure it may be a little dependent upon the issues you may have with the synergy between all components. I totally understand your reserve. You have to note it was not something I even looked into after having the W5LE for one year and the Woo3 for two years.
   
  I'm not saying to spend a ton of money I have about $1400 invested in two power cables and one set of RCAs. This was stuff I purchased used so I didn't pay near what they were new.
   
  What I'm posting all this for is for folks who never gave it a thought, to at least get a couple power cords and play around. Heck.......go to a meet and borrow every one that you can get your hands on. Bring your whole rig just like at home and spend the day listening to different cords.
   
  When you find your mate cord with your W5LE, you come back to this forum and describe about the level of mind-bending. OK?
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I'm convinced that the potentials of a cable are somewhat limited by the internal wirings of your amp/source/speaker device.
> 
> I like this belief.
> It saves me a lot of money


 
  The crazy thing is that science is now in a state of dilution due to how the dogma effects physics understandings. Simply we can not learn more due to our grounded past assumptions. What they say though is that it's the cord from the wall to the amp that makes the difference the most. You can try to rationalize this all you want. Best to just try stuff.
  Quote: 





mogour said:


> _*just experiment it and you will find that every cables will change the sound. I got 4 different power cable and I ear every sound signature that they have to offer.*_ The most obvious differences was when I bought a silver power cable because (one thing that it was louder at the same volume level and the sound was more 3 dimentionnal and clearer). I don't think that we have to spend thousands to see changes but I think your amplifier as to be transparent (I saw greater differences with my woo wa22 than my home theatre speakers which are outlaw audio lcr and are connected to the same dac).


 
  Thank-you.
  Quote: 





wapiti said:


> I, too, am skeptical.  Thus, I am curious as to what he finds to be such a vast improvement and the theory as to why.


 
  Read the above and no I have no theory and I'm not looking for one.


----------



## Rawrbington

Redcarmoose, I fully respect your views and observations. I like reading people reporting on their findings with stuff like that. I appreciate you doing so.
The very nice high quality cables work very well for you. No matter the reason. Placebo, confirmation bias or actual positive increase in sound quality is irrelevant in the long run. Because it sounds better to you.

What sounds better to me, is upgrading to LCD3 or picking up some HD800s. We both have different wants and needs, as well as different means. And that's ok, that's life. Like I said above, I don't buy into the cable hype. I mean I do a little, but not enough to go spend 500$ on cables. Maybe someday.

All this cable upgrading, headphone upgrading, cartridge upgrading, and source upgrading is fun and addictive.
But what really matters, the only thing that matters, is how does it sound to you?

Cheers.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Redcarmoose, I fully respect your views and observations. I like reading people reporting on their findings with stuff like that. I appreciate you doing so.
> The very nice high quality cables work very well for you. No matter the reason. Placebo, confirmation bias or actual positive increase in sound quality is irrelevant in the long run. Because it sounds better to you.
> 
> What sounds better to me, is upgrading to LCD3 or picking up some HD800s. We both have different wants and needs, as well as different means. And that's ok, that's life. Like I said above, I don't buy into the cable hype. I mean I do a little, but not enough to go spend 500$ on cables. Maybe someday.
> ...


 
  I do agree with you 1/2 way.
   
  At the show where I purchased my Denon AH-D 7000s I had spent the day with the HD 800s. I used them with the standard stock HD 800 cable and a nice $500.00 after market HD 800 cable. I also tried a set of HD 800s that morning with the t-shirt mod. T-shirt mod with the aftermarket cable and t-shirt mod with the stock cable. I also listened to a rare re-worked 180 gram pressing of DSOTM on a $80K vinyl rig while deciding if I wanted the HD 800s. I like the AH-D 7000s better for me anyway. Just the specific sound I'm into more.
   
  Your right I do need to try some LCDs. I never have. There could be a dramatic change for the money with those suckers! Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The member I purchased my Denon AH-D 7000s sold em to me to upgrade to the LCD2s.
   
  Still I would bet my bottom dollar that the LCDs with my cable set up would be an improvement. I plan on getting a pair of LCD2s next time I'm on the mainland.


----------



## apollo11

Amen to d





rawrbington said:


> Redcarmoose, I fully respect your views and observations. I like reading people reporting on their findings with stuff like that. I appreciate you doing so.
> The very nice high quality cables work very well for you. No matter the reason. Placebo, confirmation bias or actual positive increase in sound quality is irrelevant in the long run. Because it sounds better to you.
> 
> What sounds better to me, is upgrading to LCD3 or picking up some HD800s. We both have different wants and needs, as well as different means. And that's ok, that's life. Like I said above, I don't buy into the cable hype. I mean I do a little, but not enough to go spend 500$ on cables. Maybe someday.
> ...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Are not LCD 3s expensive?


I would not buy into the cable hype either unless I tried it first before making simple judgments on behalf of our chance improvements.



You can guess with my post count that I have gone round and round about cables. The great part is I had my two cents here. Should you be curious just try em before passing judgement.


Later


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> While chasing ground loops and induced power supply noise from other devices, I found a computer power cord with a ferrite noise block on it worked well to keep interference from my CFL and LED table lamps out of my WA3. I'm not a believer in exotic power supply cables....the power generated from the plant traverses the country on unshielded naked cables of copper, aluminum, and gets switched through buzzing arcing knife switches at every street corner. When it finally comes into the house it rides hundreds of feet of unshielded parallel 14ga romex throughout all the walls with other stuff on the circuit generating spikes and noise. There is nothing clean or sacred about the power at the wall. The most impactful thing you can do is keep the noise out using a power conditioner, filter, or at least a choke. WA3 ties signal ground to chassis ground and it goes through the power cable to earth ground....it needs to be filtered. As for silver unobtanium power cables......what about the other 60 miles of the circuit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This makes total sense to me.  And particularly on my phono stage-- it's why I'm going to power it off of a battery (my phono stage manufacturer makes a battery specifically for this purpose).  It makes sense-- and it is 'perfect' isolation.  Will it improve bass or imaging or soundstage?  I don't know.  I suspect it won't.  But I do know it will eliminate hum.   And that in and of itself will improve the sound.  I'm not changing the power cable.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> I am not sure about this whole placebo/reality effect from cables.


 
  This is, of course, a significant issue and may well explain the preferences some have for various cables.  As already observed, it does not matter however.  If you hear an improvement, there is an improvement. 
   
  Additionally, this is a hobby.  Its very purpose is to waste time and money.
   
  Thank you for the effort you put into your posts and your separate 5LE review.


----------



## JonasRas

Maybe a little off-topic, but how long does it take before Jack replies to emails. It's been a few days now.


----------



## JonasRas

Maybe you guys can help me answer my questions? What tubes would be good for getting more low-end? And for you Europeans out there, what did you pay for shipping?


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> This is, of course, a significant issue and may well explain the preferences some have for various cables.  As already observed, it does not matter however.  If you hear an improvement, there is an improvement.
> 
> Additionally, this is a hobby.  Its very purpose is to waste time and money.
> 
> Thank you for the effort you put into your posts and your separate 5LE review.


 
   
   
  very true, yea it does sound silly(no dis), but this headphone thing/hobby is to waste time and money, and effort too.  using some gears to make the music we like more enjoyable. 
   
   
  for those who want to try cables, get used.  always the best value.
   
   
  and redcarmoose, i'm using a voodoo black diamond dragon cable with my wa5.  very nice with a very dark background.
   
  http://www.voodoocable.net/VBDDPC.html


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> Maybe a little off-topic, but how long does it take before Jack replies to emails. It's been a few days now.


 
   
  Like running water, it will vary. Currently, he's busy preparing for the New York Audio Show, among other things.


----------



## LionTamer

A quick update on the WA6-se that I purchased a few weeks back - the tubes that I ordered from Jack when buying the amp arrived last week.  I have to say - 596 + 6GL7 (with Woo adapters) sounds absolutely fantastic with my LCD's, just a stunning improvement over the (already very good) stock tubes.
   
  As my journey continues, my next step will be to get a longer cable for my phones since the stock LCD cable doesn't reach my listening chair...I'd presume that I can also get a sonic improvement without spending a fortune as well, something like Moon Audio or Q Cable.  But I guess that's a discussion for another day.
   
  Back to the discussion at hand...anybody with LCD's pondering this tube combo, I echo Dubstep's enthusiastic response to these tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





liontamer said:


> A quick update on the WA6-se that I purchased a few weeks back - the tubes that I ordered from Jack when buying the amp arrived last week.  I have to say - 596 + 6GL7 (with Woo adapters) sounds absolutely fantastic with my LCD's, just a stunning improvement over the (already very good) stock tubes.
> 
> As my journey continues, my next step will be to get a longer cable for my phones since the stock LCD cable doesn't reach my listening chair...I'd presume that I can also get a sonic improvement without spending a fortune as well, something like Moon Audio or Q Cable.  But I guess that's a discussion for another day.
> 
> Back to the discussion at hand...anybody with LCD's pondering this tube combo,* I echo Dubstep's enthusiastic response to these tubes.*


 
   




   
  my reference tubes for the LCD-2/WA6-SE (i'm really liking them with the HD 800 as well!)


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my reference tubes for the LCD-2/WA6-SE (i'm really liking them with the HD 800 as well!)


 
   
  Have you herd the 6EM7?  How do they compare vs 6GL7?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gloryuprising said:


> Have you herd the 6EM7?  How do they compare vs 6GL7?




Nope =[


Might try and find a pair if theyre different enuf from 6gl7


----------



## apollo11

dubstep girl said:


> my reference tubes for the LCD-2/WA6-SE (i'm really liking them with the HD 800 as well!)


Hope to have that system setup!


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Nope =[
> 
> 
> Might try and find a pair if theyre different enuf from 6gl7


 
   
  Just got a response from one of my tube vendors and here's what he had to say about 6EM7 vs 6GL7 in case anyone is wondering:
   
   
   


> The 6GL7 is almost identical to a 6EA7, which has two triodes with gains of 66 and 5.5.
> 
> The triodes of the 6GL7 have gains of 66 and 5.0.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Any tube gurus want to help us interpret that? =)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks for checking with your vendor! 
   
   
  ^ i think they're basically the same then. would be nice to hear from an expert though.
   
  i know theres some impressons on 6EM7 in the WA6-SE/WA6 discussion thread, and they described the tube the same way i described the 6GL7, so maybe they're extremely similar. their construction looks the same too. 
   
  it seems the other WA6-SE tubes are similar (6EW7, 6FD7, 6CY7, 6DN7, 6FQ7, 6DR7, 6DE7, and a few others out there...). there was a post somewhere that also talked a bit about each of them, no-1 seems to have found a perfect WA6-SE tube yet though. (except maybe silent one with his 6sn7's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  i might get a pair of 6CY7 and 6DE7 soon to try them out as well, they're fairly cheap (like 30$ shipped gets me a pair of each)


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks for checking with your vendor!
> 
> 
> ^ i think they're basically the same then. would be nice to hear from an expert though.
> ...


 
   
  I thought the 6SN7 were not compatible?!!?  
   
  I'm tempted to buy a boat load of tubes too to try... =x


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ they aren't compatible with WA6-SE, but silent one got an adapter that works with it (needs a resistor and some other things, more than just a pin adapter). of course, that would allow for much more tube rolling, CV 181, 6SN7, 6F8G, etc.....


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ they aren't compatible with WA6-SE, but silent one got an adapter that works with it (needs a resistor and some other things, more than just a pin adapter). of course, that would allow for much more tube rolling, CV 181, 6SN7, 6F8G, etc.....


 
   
   
  INTERESTING....
   
  Silent, you there? =p


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks for checking with your vendor!
> 
> 
> ^ i think they're basically the same then. would be nice to hear from an expert though.
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, we had the storied mid 1940's Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates.


----------



## reeltime

Well I just upped the game on my WA5LE.  I picked up a pair of Sylvania 6SN7's.  Not even broken in yet and  they jumped right to the top of the power tube list.  They feature all the bass and punch of the RCA 6SN7-- keep the bass better focused, while retaining the top end-- clean and transparent.
   
  So if you were keeping track:
   
  1) Sylvania 6SN7 ($300)
  2) RCA 6SN7 ($160
  3) PSVane 181-TII ($345)
  4) Tung Sol 6SN7 (came with the WA5)
   
  A bunch of my favorite test sides were harmed in the making of this mini-review.


----------



## migasson

@reeltime.. These are the Sylvania 6sn7's from Woo?


----------



## migasson

Oh, folks, is it just me, or does it feel like an event everytime you switch your Woo on?


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Well I just upped the game on my WA5LE.  I picked up a pair of Sylvania 6SN7's.  Not even broken in yet and  they jumped right to the top of the power tube list.  They feature all the bass and punch of the RCA 6SN7-- keep the bass better focused, while retaining the top end-- clean and transparent.
> 
> So if you were keeping track:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  now you need some 300b


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





migasson said:


> Oh, folks, is it just me, or does it feel like an event everytime you switch your Woo on?


 
   
   
  just glad to be on the team


----------



## Silent One

I'm still taking baby steps to get to the WA5.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm still taking baby steps to get to the WA5.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *fhuang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> now you need some 300b


 
   
  I know I'm going to buy a Royal Princess at some point-- if only to settle the EML Mesh / Sophia question once and for all for myself... But I want a pair of LCD's first. The Western Electric pair is now out of my league price-wise for a tube. Well over $2k for a pair. Not going to happen.  I just wish I could hear the mysterious Takatsuki 300B-- or even find out where to order a pair.


----------



## GrindingThud

Ever have the moons just align....right tubes, right warmup, right mood, right soundtrack? My head just imploded under the power of Woo and the Dark Knight film score. OMG, I'm speechless. @3:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRgrykM3jO0


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





migasson said:


> Oh, folks, is it just me, or does it feel like an event everytime you switch your Woo on?


 
   
  It does indeed.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm still taking baby steps to get to the WA5.


 
   
  Counting my pennies 'til the day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... Will love to hear your choice on which 300B's.
   
  Have any of you received Woo's Evite Invitation to the NY Audio Show this weekend?  So upset that it's on the other coast...no love for the west coast


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Have any of you received Woo's Evite Invitation to the NY Audio Show this weekend?  So upset that it's on the other coast...no love for the west coast


 
   
  i did, same here though, too far away, i got a friend thats going to it though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I did. But have scheduling conflicts. I have a potential member, two or three that's going to screen the WA234 for me.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @reeltime.. These are the Sylvania 6sn7's from Woo?


 
   
  Yes, I got the Sylvania from Woo.


----------



## Zeruel the 14th

How do people feel about the knobs on their gear, do you think you can review it based solely on your knob turning experience?

 Because this guy reviews gear based solely on the knobs. notsureifserious.jpg
http://knobfeel.co.uk/
   
  Also reviewed hands on. Buttery Spread.
  I'm going to fondle my WA2 now.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





zeruel the 14th said:


> How do people feel about the knobs on their gear, do you think you can review it based solely on your knob turning experience?
> 
> Because this guy reviews gear based solely on the knobs. notsureifserious.jpg
> http://knobfeel.co.uk/
> ...


 
   
  lol, funny thread though.  Minimal attention to my gears' knobs (as long as they lasted for the initial month or so).  
   
  I don't touch my Woo's knobs, set once and go; on/off via a toggle switch on the power distributor.


----------



## GrindingThud

Oo, excellent reviews...especially the videos. I really like the knob on my WA3. It offers a smooth solid feel with no wobble, although hard to rotate with one finger. Hmmmm, mmm, oooh, ok, the texture of the finish feels nice too. Enough of this knob-sense....



zeruel the 14th said:


> How do people feel about the knobs on their gear, do you think you can review it based solely on your knob turning experience?
> 
> 
> Because this guy reviews gear based solely on the knobs. notsureifserious.jpg
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Hmmm, seems we're speeding toward "Fetish Friday" inside the thread.


----------



## grokit

I guess I need to deoxit my WA22's volume knob, it's giving me some crackle lately...


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I know I'm going to buy a Royal Princess at some point-- if only to settle the EML Mesh / Sophia question once and for all for myself... But I want a pair of LCD's first. The Western Electric pair is now out of my league price-wise for a tube. Well over $2k for a pair. Not going to happen.  I just wish I could hear the mysterious Takatsuki 300B-- or even find out where to order a pair.


 
   
   
  i'm not so sure on the royal princess.  i don't have any of them but, i've talked to a lot of guys(but they're all speaker guys) and most of them haven't heard of it(the tube i meant) and the few who heard it didn't like it much.  as for western electric, not easy to get one pair.  plus the price.... those guys did suggest me to get some psvane we300b.  they told me it's the cheapest and easiest way to get something close to the original. and they do sound nice to my ears.


----------



## daverich4

grokit said:


> I guess I need to deoxit my WA22's volume knob, it's giving me some crackle lately...




My WA22 is doing the same thing. Any tips on the right way to take care of it? Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

I've been fortunate - the knob on my Woo has always exhibited silence when turned; smooth like French butter.


----------



## kchew

For me, I would crank the volume knob a few times before powering up my WA22. No more crackles for me.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I did. But have scheduling conflicts. I have a potential member, two or three that's going to screen the WA234 for me.


 
  SO, Are you really thinking on spending that kind of money in a headphones amp? That is a lot more of what I paid for my new McIntosh MC601 monoblock amplifiers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





You no joking, baby! Yes, I gave it serious consideration... until Monday morning. I like the MC601 blocks, by the way. But Monday morning I purchased a Sansui G-22000 and now feel feel all warm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and cozy. I'm now back to considering the WA5 - providing they're still offered
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in Black - or the Yamamoto A-09S.
   
  Over the weekend, you're gonna have to share some updated pix (via PM) from inside your listening room.


----------



## rosgr63

There are other amps which use the same type tubes and more but cost less.


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





migasson said:


> Oh, folks, is it just me, or does it feel like an event everytime you switch your Woo on?


 
   
  Definitely.
   
  Every single time.
   
  Similarly it feels like the end of something special when I turn it off and the tubes slowly dim.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> There are other amps which use the same type tubes and more but cost less.


 
   
  Yeah, we gonna 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 get some "studio" love after the owner/operator returns this summer rejuvenated.


----------



## 2359glenn

I think I will have to recuperate from the vacation


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> I think I will have to recuperate from the vacation


 
   
  But, of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





you will. And me? I'll have to recuperate from envy.


----------



## joyway

hi, I'm wondering if wa22 maxed can beat the wa5le basic. The upgraded Wa5le is really too expensive for me


----------



## migasson

My WA22 has upgraded tubes and I run it balanced, I dare not listen to the WA5 to avoid temptation... I've found it the best way to save money


----------



## joyway

Dear migasson,
  Thank you for your kindness.It's really wise to avoid to listen to the wa 5 . haha~ Besides, is wa6se more powerful than wa 22? Because I found that wa6se's output power can reach about 2w!


----------



## jc9394

joyway said:


> hi, I'm wondering if wa22 maxed can beat the wa5le basic. The upgraded Wa5le is really too expensive for me




Simple answer is no. It is different sound signature, the 300B, is either love it or hate it.


----------



## jc9394

I think I have max out the capacity of WA22 (parts and tubes) with source and headphone but when I plug in the HD800 to WA5, it brings the HD800 to another level that is not subtle at all. Most of the difference is the lush 300B sound and I can also tell more details.


----------



## joyway

In fact, wa5 is not only too expensive for me but too heavy for me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I have max out the capacity of WA22 (parts and tubes) with source and headphone but when I plug in the HD800 to WA5, it brings the HD800 to another level that is not subtle at all. Most of the difference is the lush 300B sound and I can also tell more details.


 
   
  This is why I am glad I haven't head a WA5!




   
  Quote: 





joyway said:


> In fact, wa5 is not only too expensive for me but too heavy for me.


 
   
  Yeah that too...


----------



## Silent One

I've heard the '2.' And the '22.' But there ain't no '2' ways about it, I gotta getta '5!'


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I've heard the '2.' And the '22.' But there ain't no '2' ways about it, I gotta getta '5!'




Better save up for those new old light bulbs, they gonna cost you at least half of "5". 

Oh, you can forget about the tea tin you have. You will need a moon cake tin.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've heard the '2.' And the '22.' But there ain't no '2' ways about it, I gotta getta '5!'


 

 Gotta git is not the same as gonna git.


----------



## LionTamer

Quote: 





joyway said:


> Dear migasson,
> Thank you for your kindness.It's really wise to avoid to listen to the wa 5 . haha~ Besides, is wa6se more powerful than wa 22? Because I found that wa6se's output power can reach about 2w!


 
  The 6SE is the most powerful Woo amp for low impedance cans like the LCD's.  The 22 is just a hair less powerful, to the point where character differences explain the sonic differences more than drive capabilities.  But...if you're running it single-ended, then a 22 isn't much better than a 6SE, because then you're only getting half the power - which offsets the other improvements that the 22 brings to the table.  
   
  From all that I've read, and from discussions I've had with Jack, even though the 5LE is less powerful than the 6SE or the 22, it is a far better amp and is the best Woo amp for most headphones, including LCD's, if you have the space for it (and are willing to spend $2.5K on a headphone amp), even in its most basic stock form.  But - I haven't listened to the 5LE to form my own opinion of it, and have certainly never heard the basic un-upgraded version.
   
  When comparing 6SE to 22 a few weeks back...all I can say is that it's a good thing that Jack didn't bring a base-model 5LE to the show, that might have been too much for me to ignore - and would have cost me a lot of $$$!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

has anyone noticed jack raised his prices on the woo audio website? 
   
  i see most of the amps and some of the tubes have gone up in price


----------



## GrindingThud

I actually noticed that today when I was looking for WA4 info. WA3 is now $520US. Makes the lightly used one on ebay a bargain.



dubstep girl said:


> has anyone noticed jack raised his prices on the woo audio website?
> 
> i see most of the amps and some of the tubes have gone up in price


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well the WA3 went up to 520 from 495
  the WA6 went up to 660 from 620 
   
  the WA2 went up to 1190
  the WA6-SE went up to 1190,
   
  the WA22 is now 1995...
   
  the WA5-LE went up 250$ to 2750
   
  the GES went up as well
   
  also jack raised the prices on the 6GL7/Adapters tube upgrade, the Sylvania 6SN7 upgrade, over doubled the prices on the WA6-SE tube ugprades, and the amperex 7308 upgrade.


----------



## john57

I agree with you the WA5 and the WA5LE is the best sounding and detailed Woo amps to my ears.
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I have max out the capacity of WA22 (parts and tubes) with source and headphone but when I plug in the HD800 to WA5, it brings the HD800 to another level that is not subtle at all. Most of the difference is the lush 300B sound and I can also tell more details.


----------



## GrindingThud

New York audio show is this weekend.....most likely made the change in advance of that.


dubstep girl said:


> well the WA3 went up to 520 from 495
> the WA6 went up to 660 from 620
> 
> the WA2 went up to 1190
> ...


----------



## GrindingThud




----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I agree with you the WA5 and the WA5LE is the best sounding and detailed Woo amps to my ears.


 
   
  much better than WA22 and WA6-SE/WA2?
   
  i've been enjoying the WA6-SE and WA2 so much i'm just gonna keep tube rolling them rather than upgrade to WA22 anytime soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> well the WA3 went up to 520 from 495
> the WA6 went up to 660 from 620
> 
> the WA2 went up to 1190
> ...


 
   
  Not sure where the readership went. In the winter time, I raised the same concern here when I saw the estimated price increase on the WA234 mono. And asked Jack about it... though, not sure why since I still have to eat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But, the estimated price jumped from $10K to $15K. An indication for the rest of the line of things to come.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So for me, this recent increase was a forgone conclusion.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Y-e-a-h, I know. Okay, how 'bout _I'm* gonna git* some new tea tins to start saving up for it?_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Y-e-a-h, I know. Okay, how 'bout _I'm* gonna git* some new tea tins to start saving up for it?_


 
   
  Oh, I git it! Good start!


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





liontamer said:


> The 6SE is the most powerful Woo amp for low impedance cans like the LCD's.  The 22 is just a hair less powerful, to the point where character differences explain the sonic differences more than drive capabilities.  But...if you're running it single-ended, then a 22 isn't much better than a 6SE, because then you're only getting half the power - which offsets the other improvements that the 22 brings to the table.
> 
> From all that I've read, and from discussions I've had with Jack, even though the 5LE is less powerful than the 6SE or the 22, it is a far better amp and is the best Woo amp for most headphones, including LCD's, if you have the space for it (and are willing to spend $2.5K on a headphone amp), even in its most basic stock form.  But - I haven't listened to the 5LE to form my own opinion of it, and have certainly never heard the basic un-upgraded version.
> 
> When comparing 6SE to 22 a few weeks back...all I can say is that it's a good thing that Jack didn't bring a base-model 5LE to the show, that might have been too much for me to ignore - and would have cost me a lot of $$$!!


 
   
  Or do what I did and pick up a used WA5LE on eBay for $1800.  Sweet, but you have to pay attention and work to win the auction.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A good restart. Already had the WA5 mono blocks total saved up. Then some knucklehead came along and knocked over the tins 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and made off with my loot!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> much better than WA22 and WA6-SE/WA2?
> 
> i've been enjoying the WA6-SE and WA2 so much i'm just gonna keep tube rolling them rather than upgrade to WA22 anytime soon.


 
   
  Yes, the WA5 and WA5LE are in a class by themselves. Good strong and engaging amp. My current active speaker monitor is the Emotiva AIrmotiv6 nearfields which the WA5LE would be a good fit for it. Not a bad idea just to keep your current amps since you are happy with them. I also have a set of Equator D5 speaker monitors which is good for mixing for audio production.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> much better than WA22 and WA6-SE/WA2?
> 
> i've been enjoying the WA6-SE and WA2 so much i'm just gonna keep tube rolling them rather than upgrade to WA22 anytime soon.


 
  yes, it is.  even my ears can tell the difference right away.  thank goodness that i have spent my toy money on the camera upgrade already.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Yes, the WA5 and WA5LE are in a class by themselves. Good strong and engaging amp. My current active speaker monitor is the Emotiva AIrmotiv6 nearfields which the WA5LE would be a good fit for it. Not a bad idea just to keep your current amps since you are happy with them. I also have a set of Equator D5 speaker monitors which is good for mixing for audio production.


 
   
  x2, even the stock tubes is a hair better than my wa22 already.  once you roll in 596, elm 300b, and ts bgrp.  it is on a totally different level.  one thing to notice is, it is very demanding amp, it requires the best dac you can afford.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're holding out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on me! I didn't know you got a new Woo... WA5 or LE? Wait, more importantly is it Black?


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> x2, even the stock tubes is a hair better than my wa22 already.  once you roll in 596, elm 300b, and ts bgrp.  it is on a totally different level.  one thing to notice is, it is very demanding amp, it requires the best dac you can afford.


 
   
  How did you find 2 matching 596 tubes?  I'm lucky if I can score 1, let alone 2, and they never ever match.


----------



## joyway

Thank Lion Tamer for your kind reply. I should start to save money now.(*^__^*)


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> How did you find 2 matching 596 tubes?  I'm lucky if I can score 1, let alone 2, and they never ever match.


 
  Matched what ?
  I am the guy that came up with using the 596 in the WA5 what needs to be matched is the filament resistance
  during worm up.
    There is no commercial equipment made that can measure this I built the tester to do this when I first started
  selling adapters and tubes for the WA-5.  But people started using the 596 for every thing now they are nearly
  unattainable.
    The majority of 596 tubes have a close matched filament so almost any pair will be close enough to use in the
  WA-5


----------



## DutchGFX

Any of you using the WA6 + HE-5 or HE-5LE? I paired it with the K702 at the meet and it blew my Lyr out of the water entirely! So if it's a good pair for the HiFiMAN's too, I think I'll have to buy a WA6.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's right! Long live_ The Mighty 596._





   
  Though, I may stand accused of _"Hyping"_ it up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
   
   
  Even my girlfriend's mom wants one... and she doesn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




even own a vacuum tube amp.


----------



## jc9394

reeltime said:


> How did you find 2 matching 596 tubes?  I'm lucky if I can score 1, let alone 2, and they never ever match.




I ordered 30 before and kept 3 matched pair (sold 2 pair to OP). Sold the rest to other head-fier at cost, it was sold cheap I should have keep more.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> You're holding out
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not mines, ordered on for my friend up north. He let me keep it for a month before I personally delivery it, the saving gets him a pair of EML 300B. It is silver.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Matched what ?
> I am the guy that came up with using the 596 in the WA5 what needs to be matched is the filament resistance
> during worm up.
> There is no commercial equipment made that can measure this I built the tester to do this when I first started
> ...




X2, the 30 I got are very closed match. The 3 pairs I kept are within a very small margins.

Strange, can't post pics with ipad.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/ef/ef0c4483_9c2034b4.jpeg


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You just have to keep your eyes open for group buys and ebay deals....


----------



## Silent One

Lovely.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Any of you using the WA6 + HE-5 or HE-5LE? I paired it with the K702 at the meet and it blew my Lyr out of the water entirely! So if it's a good pair for the HiFiMAN's too, I think I'll have to buy a WA6.


 
   
  might wanna look into the WA6-SE for more power for the hifiman's. mine performs great with HE-500 and was simply sublime with the K701 (8 bump version).


----------



## Ultrainferno

I remember holding 20 boxes of 596 and keeping none to myself (how stupid was I). 2 haven't even been paid yet and were shipped long ago.
  So if you have a spare at a good price, PM me


----------



## DutchGFX

dubstep girl said:


> might wanna look into the WA6-SE for more power for the hifiman's. mine performs great with HE-500 and was simply sublime with the K701 (8 bump version).




That's like, double budget haha unfortunately :'(

I tested the 6SE at the show, and it was awesome, but it really didn't sound to different than the WA6 to my ears, and again, it's way over budget. I only really want to spend what I'll get for my Lyr and all my tube pairs, which is probably about $550, but I can go over if the WA6 is great. Was also looking at the Soloist SL, any comments? Wrong thread ik, I have another thread too, o if you would be so kind as to post in said thread, it'd be awesome, thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

for the AKG's, it'll  be the same, just suggested the WA6-SE cause it is better and more importantly would have the power u need if you wanted to go with the hifiman.
   
  the soloist sl would have alot of power, not sure if it would be better than a WA6, especially if you upgrade your tubes.


----------



## DutchGFX

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> for the AKG's, it'll  be the same, just suggested the WA6-SE cause it is better and more importantly would have the power u need if you wanted to go with the hifiman.
> 
> the soloist sl would have alot of power, not sure if it would be better than a WA6, especially if you upgrade your tubes.


 

 Well I have the HE-5Le and the Q701, but its most important to work with the HiFiMAN's as they are my prefered can  I can't find the power output for 32ohms for the WA6 :/ So I guess I'll have to try it at the meet up in NYC


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Well I have the HE-5Le and the Q701, but its most important to work with the HiFiMAN's as they are my prefered can  I can't find the power output for 32ohms for the WA6 :/ So I guess I'll have to try it at the meet up in NYC


 
   
http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
   
  580mw into 32 ohms.i think hifiman recommends 2W for the HE-5LE. so the Soloist SL would be a better choice, but it might not be much of an improvement coming from your Ly unless you get the regular Soloist (or WA6-SE at that price range)


----------



## DutchGFX

dubstep girl said:


> http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
> 
> 580mw into 32 ohms.i think hifiman recommends 2W for the HE-5LE. so the Soloist SL would be a better choice, but it might not be much of an improvement coming from your Ly unless you get the regular Soloist (or WA6-SE at that price range)




Yeah i think I'll just test the WA6 with the 5Le at the meet, and compare to my Lyr  because I just don't have the $1200 to spend on an amp. Is there any other amp around $600 that could be an upgrade?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Yeah i think I'll just test the WA6 with the 5Le at the meet, and compare to my Lyr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  the Lyr is already a fantastic value for the money, you will have to jump to the next  tier to notice an improvement.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I remember holding 20 boxes of 596 and keeping none to myself (how stupid was I). *2 haven't even been paid yet and were shipped long ago.*
> So if you have a spare at a good price, PM me


 
  Seriously??!!  That is NOT right...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We are all hobbyists here.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Unfortunately yes, ah well. lesson learned I guess.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I remember this Group Buy well; I am not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 pleased. First, let me add that I understand things happen in life. And when it does, good communication can go a long way.
   
  But I will also add, some circumstances are serious. And may very well prohibit communication. Let's hope nothing grave has taken place.
   
  Lastly, because there's so much wonderful spirit in this hobby, at some point we all become the beneficiary of gears and accessories from those that are either veterans, flush or 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 both. No need to hoodwink anybody, one's turn to be _gifted_ will come.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Unfortunately yes, ah well. lesson learned I guess.


 
   
  Sorry to learn of your experience. Perhaps, I can assist. Will send a PM post Brunch...


----------



## john57

Looking at the charts I have a question. Could you use orthos headphones using the WA5 K1000 switch selection which gives 8W @120Ω?  Would that work? I only tried the WA5LE.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
> 
> 580mw into 32 ohms.i think hifiman recommends 2W for the HE-5LE.
> Looking at the charts,


----------



## jc9394

john57 said:


> Looking at the charts I have a question. Could you use orthos headphones using the WA5 K1000 switch selection which gives 8W @120Ω?  Would that work? I only tried the WA5LE.




Yes, both HE6 and LCD2/3 sounds crazy good...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If I may ask, regarding the HE-6 out of the K1000 output, did the sound stage have good width; depth?


----------



## DutchGFX

Any more info on WA6 + HE5Le?


----------



## Silent One

Any way you could 'neak in a few more dollars and get the _WA 6 Special Edition_ for that pairing?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I may ask, regarding the HE-6 out of the K1000 output, did the sound stage have good width; depth?


 
   
  I only have the HE6 for a short period of time and can't really comments on this but with the LCD2 R2, it does increase on the depth, the width is almost the same.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Although, you only had the cans for a bit, you didn't find the stage too small/narrow at all, did you? Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Although, you only had the cans for a bit, you didn't find the stage too small/narrow at all, did you? Thanks.




No, certainly does not have the width and depth of HD800 but definitely small/narrow. I prefer the lcd2 over he6 for some reason.


----------



## JonasRas

I'm impatiently waiting for my WA6, and it's killing me... Also ordered a Schiit MODI.


----------



## DutchGFX

silent one said:


> Any way you could 'neak in a few more dollars and get the _WA 6 Special Edition_ for that pairing?


 most likely not, unless I was able to get the SE for <$700 that's a major discount idk if woo will offer


----------



## Dubstep Girl

you might be able to pick up a used SE for 800 or so.  jack will not discount though, and especially not after raising his prices from 1050 to 1190 for the 6SE


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> I'm impatiently waiting for my WA6, and it's killing me... Also ordered a Schiit MODI.


 
  Waiting is the fun part, really!


----------



## DutchGFX

dubstep girl said:


> you might be able to pick up a used SE for 800 or so.  jack will not discount though, and especially not after raising his prices from 1050 to 1190 for the 6SE




Alright thanks! I guess I'll have to demo them both (SE and normal) just to see if the SE is a marked improvement over my Lyr, or to see of maybe even the 750 Mw is good enough for my ears. I really hope so, thanks for all your help!

As another Q, do the Rectifiers glow as much as the drivers? I didn't see much glow on either at the woo exhibit


----------



## Dubstep Girl

depends on the rectifier and drivers, its really tube dependant.
   
  the sophia and eml glow nicely, the stock shug is terrible, and has like no glow (i believe this was the tube used at the show from the pics my friend showed me of the show)
  some of the drivers have a bit more glow as well.


----------



## mcullinan

Great showing for Woo at the NY Audio show. They are all very friendly and their head amps are the bomb. Loved the firefly... Beautiful build quality on all their amps!


----------



## flaming_june

I got an invite for that but unfort I won't be back in NY for another two months.  Nice to hear.


----------



## jc9394

jc9394 said:


> No, certainly does not have the width and depth of HD800 but definitely small/narrow. I prefer the lcd2 over he6 for some reason.




I mean NOT small or narrow at all.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This helps! Thanks for the follow-up, I was confused. But avoided temptation for my own follow-up; didn't wanna spam my brother on a beautiful Sunday night.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let me step in and see if I can broker you a deal. Won't be able to do it for less than $700, though. I deal with quality members & components 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




only. Perhaps, for just a little more than that, I can get a Pre-Owned Black _Special Edition _out to you in fantastic condition, seldom used.
   
  Will contact the owner shortly...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> depends on the rectifier and drivers, its really tube dependant.
> 
> the sophia and eml glow nicely, the stock shug is terrible, and has like no glow (i believe this was the tube used at the show from the pics my friend showed me of the show)
> some of the drivers have a bit more glow as well.


 
   
  This reminds me the first time I turned off the lights with the TS-BGRP's/USAF-596 installed - the room stayed very dark.


----------



## jenerik

Has anyone used the AKG K702 65 with the WA6, WA6SE or WA2?  
  My headphones just arrived but are being held hostage at the post office while I'm on a business trip.  Am in the market for a good headphone amp and am very intrigued by the reviews of the Woo products.  The three mentioned are in the running.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jenerik said:


> Has anyone used the AKG K702 65 with the WA6, WA6SE or WA2?
> My headphones just arrived but are being held hostage at the post office while I'm on a business trip.  Am in the market for a good headphone amp and am very intrigued by the reviews of the Woo products.  The three mentioned are in the running.


 
   
  the WA6-SE is a fantastic amp with the K702, but may be a little overkill, the WA6 is already very good and drives them very well without any problems. the WA2 isn't ideal for low impedance headphones and wouldn't work well with K702 (some WA2 work ok, some like mine, don't play very nice with low impedance headphones). both WA6 and WA6-SE highly recommended.


----------



## Silent One

If the extra $$$ poses no obstacle, nothing like having reserve. And jenerik would then be able to satisfy potential cans not yet purchased, by moving up now. My vote 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is for future growth. And in this hobby,_ that will come quickly._


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If the extra $$$ poses no obstacle, nothing like having reserve. And jenerik would then be able to satisfy potential cans not yet purchased, by moving up now. My vote
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You take long to Brunch SO!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You take long to Brunch SO!


 
   
  Whoops! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I knew there was something I forgot to do, yesterday.


----------



## joeribt

Help! I am a newbie and would appreciate your help. I have got the Woo WA6. I wanted to try different rectifiers from the stock one. I got myself some Mullard GZ37 and 5Z4G. I tried three of them, and they all blew up right away.... Now I am afraid t try further, or even to put back the stock tube. Did I do something seriously wrong? Thanks for your advice.


----------



## migasson

@joeribt.. I know I use the Sophia Princess 274B in my WA22, and it sounds brilliant. Other folks may use the EML 5u4g, which I'm up for trying. Both are brand new tubes.


----------



## jenerik

Thanks for the comments. I'm not rolling in it but do have a decent range I can spend. But as I should upgrade my DAC (currently a m-audio profire 610) and additional headphones down the line, being somewhat economic is a good idea. Just moved from living in a recording studio where everything could be loud to a bedroom with kids next door. 
And just to clarify the K702's are the 65 anniversary model. Or we're you referencing the original K702?


----------



## joeribt

migasson said:


> @joeribt.. I know I use the Sophia Princess 274B in my WA22, and it sounds brilliant. Other folks may use the EML 5u4g, which I'm up for trying. Both are brand new tubes.




I have read many reviews which is why I wanted to try different tubes. My concern is they all blew in the first second. I don't dare to try another rectifier until I know what I am doing wrong as the Mullard's are expensive tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

maybe your amp is defective, you should send jack a message about it. WA6/WA6-SE have had issues with rectifiers blowing in the past, but i thought all of the problems had been fixed by now.


----------



## GloryUprising

I had a rectifier blow on me and took out a power tube in the process, so it's not un-heard of.  In my case, it was a bad tube.
   
  Is this a new amp?


----------



## Silent One

I've been very fortunate in the three years I have been illuminating glass. No incidents to report as of yet.


----------



## joeribt

dubstep girl said:


> maybe your amp is defective, you should send jack a message about it. WA6/WA6-SE have had issues with rectifiers blowing in the past, but i thought all of the problems had been fixed by now.




The amp is new but the stock rectifier worked fine. I tried three rectifiers, if they all blew it cannot be them? Is it safe to try again with the stock rectifier?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> The amp is new but the stock rectifier worked fine. I tried three rectifiers, if they all blew it cannot be them? Is it safe to try again with the stock rectifier?


 
  I'm with dubstepgirl.  I think that you should send your amp back, or at the very least call Jack and let him know what's going on.  Even though your stock rectifier was OK the first go round, I wouldn't risk it if I were you.  How long have you had the amp?  How long did you listen to it before you started rolling in the different rectifiers?


----------



## joeribt

galaxyguy said:


> I'm with dubstepgirl.  I think that you should send your amp back, or at the very least call Jack and let him know what's going on.  Even though your stock rectifier was OK the first go round, I wouldn't risk it if I were you.  How long have you had the amp?  How long did you listen to it before you started rolling in the different rectifiers?




Thanks for your suggestions. I have written to Jack. I've had the amp for a month. Have listened for a few hours each week. Not much I know. Should I just wait for Jack to reply or is it safe to use the stock tube?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> The amp is new but the stock rectifier worked fine. I tried three rectifiers, if they all blew it cannot be them? Is it safe to try again with the stock rectifier?


 
   
  its not the rectifiers, its the amp. it should not blow ANY rectifiers. wait for jack's reply. 
   
  the stock rectifier might be safer than the others due to electrical differences and the way its heated and the currents and whatnot, but no rectifier should be giving you any problems and IMO, the stock might not be safe, just depends on whats wrong with the amp.


----------



## tintin220

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> Thanks for your suggestions. I have written to Jack. I've had the amp for a month. Have listened for a few hours each week. Not much I know. Should I just wait for Jack to reply or is it safe to use the stock tube?


 
   
  I mean honestly, this is impossible for any of us to tell you. Given the very limited symptoms (rectifiers blowing), the problem could be any one of a number of issues with the amp, including, despite the low probability, that maybe all of your tubes were defective. 
   
  In my own natural curiosity, I'd be the type of person to try to it and see what happens. If it also blows then you know for sure the amp is defective, and given this fact, I don't see why under warranty Woo Audio wouldn't fix/replace both the amp and give you at least a new stock tube. 
   
  So I'd try it myself. But that by no means means I think it is safe for the tube. In all likelihood, it might be a problem that occurred after you started rolling (or because of it, if a tube was bad?).


----------



## joeribt

You're right. Also thanks to Dubstep Girl. I will try the stock rectifier, but not the last two remaining Mullard's and will wait for Jack to reply, which sometimes can take a bit. I do hope it's not the amp, as that would mean international shipping back to the US, but I fear that may what I need to be doing. It's just so cool to listen to headphones with them, hence my lack of patience


----------



## tintin220

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> You're right. Also thanks to Dubstep Girl. I will try the stock rectifier, but not the last two remaining Mullard's and will wait for Jack to reply, which sometimes can take a bit. I do hope it's not the amp, as that would mean international shipping back to the US, but I fear that may what I need to be doing. It's just so cool to listen to headphones with them, hence my lack of patience


 
   
  Yup, good luck. The good news is that the worst case scenario is that you have to get it fixed under warranty, so you'll be waiting, but at least you'll get your amp back in working order. I can understand the impatience, it is a very sweet sounding amp.


----------



## DutchGFX

Just as a curiosity, did u wait for the caps to cool down and dissipate their heat before rolling the new rectifiers? Idk if that would matter, but I wait at least 5 minutes between tube rolls and I believe that's good practice


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Just as a curiosity, did u wait for the caps to cool down and dissipate their heat before rolling the new rectifiers? Idk if that would matter, but I wait at least 5 minutes between tube rolls and I believe that's good practice


 
   
  Yes this is a very good point. I would recommend at least 20 minutes between power down/back up, and closer to an hour optimally. The time my EML went defective, I may have been rolling a bit aggressively myself. Easy nube mistake!


----------



## joeribt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes this is a very good point. I would recommend at least 20 minutes between power down/back up, and closer to an hour optimally. The time my EML went defective, I may have been rolling a bit aggressively myself. Easy nube mistake!


 
   
  Yes I did wait. In the meantime, Jack replied: "Please try the stock tubes. Your amp worked fine with the stock tubes so I
 assume your new tubes might have problems." So that is what I will do tonight and I will report back.


----------



## 930Blue

Quick question, Has anyone noticed a substantial sound difference between a stock Woo WA5 and one with the premium parts upgrad eand teflon tube circuits upgrade.  I am trying to figure out if it is worth the extra money.


----------



## tintin220

Quote: 





930blue said:


> Quick question, Has anyone noticed a substantial sound difference between a stock Woo WA5 and one with the premium parts upgrad eand teflon tube circuits upgrade.  I am trying to figure out if it is worth the extra money.


 
   
  I am of the opinion that there is not a humanly audible difference between the two. Others may disagree. For me, I often opt to build or buy with premium parts though, not for a belief in better sound, but rather because of generally tighter production tolerances and most critically, improved reliability.


----------



## john57

Same here I would upgrade just to have a higher quality beefier parts to increase reliability rather than sound since SQ can be quite subjective. Things like the Teflon sockets upgrade may be good in the long run.


----------



## Pudu

ultrainferno said:


> Unfortunately yes, ah well. lesson learned I guess.




That is very disappointing to hear. That anyone in this thread/board would take advantage of a generously setup group-buy like that ... well, they should be skulking in a deep pit of shame.

Even more surprised that you get treated this way and then go on to do another one for us. That says a lot about you. Seriously impressed my friend.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





tintin220 said:


> I am of the opinion that there is not a humanly audible difference between the two. Others may disagree. For me, I often opt to build or buy with premium parts though, not for a belief in better sound, but rather because of generally tighter production tolerances and most critically, improved reliability.


 
   
  Yeah, Jack quoted me $1800 plus shipping to upgrade my WA5LE.  Not worth it-- I'd rather get another set of headphones.  I hear there are some nice options at the $1800 dollar level!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hey woo friends, need some advice. 
   
  considering selling my HE-500. I like that its forgiving and has nice bass, but its not as transparent/detailed as my T1/HD800, i find myself using them less. the times the HE-500 is better, i still prefer the T1/HD800 and they're more comfortable. the LCD-2 is always there as well.
   
  if i sell them, what would be best u think?
   
  1. use money to  upgrade to WA22 and extra for 6SN7 tubes. accept the loss on my current tubes/amps, and move on. (i keep holding back on this having read mixed things about WA22 (from dull with LCD-2, lacking power for T1, not better than WA2 for T1, being too midrangey and forward, not huge difference balanced/unbalanced, noise with tubes), the differences might be worse, or simply not enough to justify the cost. 
   
  2. use the money to buy 6SN7 adapters from Glenn + some tubes for my WA6-SE (i'm super happy with my WA6-SE, but i feel i can still improve with 6SN7 tubes). and also buying some tubes for WA2 (maybe some extra 5998s + top tier drive tubes), i feel these would also bring my WA2 to the next level since i find it lacking to my WA6-SE sometimes. or would the tubes make little difference?
   
  3. something else? maybe just keep HE-500 for now?


----------



## tintin220

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hey woo friends, need some advice.
> 
> considering selling my HE-500. I like that its forgiving and has nice bass, but its not as transparent/detailed as my T1/HD800, i find myself using them less. the times the HE-500 is better, i still prefer the T1/HD800 and they're more comfortable. the LCD-2 is always there as well.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think you shouldn't upgrade to the WA22 unless you're definite it's a commitment you want to make, since it's kind of a huge investment not just in terms of money but as well as adjusting your entire listening habits (figuring out how the phones pairing with them, getting balanced cables, etc.). I feel like it's one of those once you do it, you can't go back things, so definitely not a decision to be made lightly.
   
  I used to have a lot of headphones, not as nice as yours certainly, but more pairs than I could listen to (I think at my max, I had 7 or 8). And they all had their appeal for me in some way, but since they weren't getting any head time, and I wasn't getting enjoyment then from having them, I downsized (a bit too far, methinks...). Think of it like an economics problem as far as maximizing your utility. If you don't use the HE-500 much and don't get much utility from it, then you should sell it and use the money to get something that'll bring you higher net utility. 
   
  I'd personally give the tubes a try, especially since you're happy with your set up. I'm not familiar with those particular tubes or the SE to say, but the risk with tubes is while it could sound better to your ears, as everyone's tastes vary as do the tolerances of tubes considerably, it might actually sound worse! High risk, high reward?


----------



## grokit

All I can add is that I definitely don't find the LCD2 dull with my WA22, especially not when I'm using a _mighty 596_ rectifier. And the HD800 is somewhat legendary with it.


----------



## Pudu

Buy more tunes.

Unless there is something you are really interested in, save the money until such time as there is something you become interested in ...

and/or buy more tunes.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





tintin220 said:


> I am of the opinion that there is not a humanly audible difference between the two. Others may disagree. For me, I often opt to build or buy with premium parts though, not for a belief in better sound, but rather because of generally tighter production tolerances and most critically, improved reliability.


 
  +1


----------



## shipsupt

I'll play devils advocate here on the subject of 6SN7's as there are some serious supporters here.  
   
  I don't think they are an ideal tube for use in the 6SE, especially with your orthos.  I think the 6SN7 is a great tube, but it's better used elsewhere.  I wouldn't count on them to cure your upgraditis.
   
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> 2. use the money to buy 6SN7 adapters from Glenn + some tubes for my WA6-SE (i'm super happy with my WA6-SE, but i feel i can still improve with 6SN7 tubes). and also buying some tubes for WA2 (maybe some extra 5998s + top tier drive tubes), i feel these would also bring my WA2 to the next level since i find it lacking to my WA6-SE sometimes. or would the tubes make little difference?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wat about hd 800


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grokit said:


> All I can add is that I definitely don't find the LCD2 dull with my WA22, especially not when I'm using a _mighty 596_ rectifier. And the HD800 is somewhat legendary with it.




T1? I know MH says its slightly better than wa2, but read somewhere its not very good and doesnt get loud enuf


----------



## migasson

I second what Grokit said.. It's far from dull cranking Explosions In The Sky at somewhere between 12 to 1 o'clock is an emotional experience I can tell you!!


----------



## migasson

I second what Grokit said.. It's far from dull cranking Explosions In The Sky at somewhere between 12 to 1 o'clock is an emotional experience I can tell you!!


----------



## migasson

The key is running the whole thing balanced...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

iincluding balanced cables for the headphones? i thought it didn't matter except for the source


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> iincluding balanced cables for the headphones? i thought it didn't matter except for the source


 
   
  Don't forget to read the "WA22 isn't really fully balanced" discussion


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Don't forget to read the "WA22 isn't really fully balanced" discussion


 
   
  errr....yeah dat too....


----------



## shipsupt

I think there is better out there for the 800. I know you already have a few tubes that are very good with the 800. There are some pretty special tubes our there, like some of the GZ34/5AR4's. Hard to find, and pretty pricey, but the results with the HD-800 were pretty striking to me. As always, it's about synergy between the recitifer and the drivers you choose. 

I guess I should be more specific about why I don't like the 6SN7 in the SE. For me they are too polite. They soften things up too much and turn the sharp, dynamic 6SE into a slush puppie. This has to do with reducing the power output when using these tubes. The adapters need to have a resistor with a bypass capacitor to lower the current in the 6SN7 or you will burn them out. This also reduces the power output of the amp.
 YMMV on how this reduction in power impacts the sound.

All of these potential changes are going to be slight, small fine tuning steps. You're past getting the big jumps out of your 6SE and HD-800's.

Are you still using that same DAC? You might consider a source upgrade. I always thought the change between DACs would be subtle until I popped the NAD M51 into my system. You might think that old DAC is just fine, and in some ways it surely is, but a new source can make another big step change in your system. Something to consider.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> All I can add is that I definitely don't find the LCD2 dull with my WA22, especially not when I'm using a _mighty 596_ rectifier. And the HD800 is somewhat legendary with it.


 
  Totally agreed, I never find WA22 and LCD2 dull.  Yes, I do prefer the beta22 over WA22 when listening to LCD2.
  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> T1? I know MH says its slightly better than wa2, but read somewhere its not very good and doesnt get loud enuf


 
  With 596 and TS7236 or TS5998, it gets very loud with only 5 clicks but my source is kind of hot.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> iincluding balanced cables for the headphones? i thought it didn't matter except for the source


 
  Balanced cable is not really needed, I have all my headphone cables changed to balanced for the other amps.  Balanced DAC is a must.
   
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I think there is better out there for the 800.


 
   
  X2, both [size=small]DNA Stratus and Sonett pair HD800 very well.  It maybe a hair better than standard build WA22.  Personally I think it use the GZ34 tube, we don't use the GZ34 enough with Woo amps.  The mighty 596 is an excellent tube but I still prefer the metal based Mullard GZ34.[/size]


----------



## LionTamer

My opinion...I wouldn't go for a WA22, as good as it is. I would go straight for the top and do a WA5LE. That one has the potential to replace both of your amps and be an improvement on both and it won't require a change in your ecosystem to maximize a balanced setup.

The other alternative is to sell both the HE500 and LCD2 to fund the purchase of an LCD3.

Either of these options IMHO would ensure that you are making a significant upgrade of the sound that you already know/like as opposed to simply changing the type of sound.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





liontamer said:


> My opinion...I wouldn't go for a WA22, as good as it is. I would go straight for the top and do a WA5LE. That one has the potential to replace both of your amps and be an improvement on both and it won't require a change in your ecosystem to maximize a balanced setup.
> 
> The other alternative is to sell both the HE500 and LCD2 to fund the purchase of an LCD3.
> 
> Either of these options IMHO would ensure that you are making a significant upgrade of the sound that you already know/like as opposed to simply changing the type of sound.


 
   
  Going to WA5/LE definitely a better choice but keep in mind is the 300B tubes, they are not cheap and the sound signature it either love it or hate it.  IMHO, the 300B does go well with hiphop, top 40, and dance.  It does really well with classical, jazz, vocals.  One more thing is you really need a top shelf DAC to get the full advantage of WA5/LE.  When I had the WA5LE, I tested it with DAC cable, PS digital Link, W4S DAC-2, and PWD mkII.  
   
   
  LCD3 is not that much better than LCD2.2 to justify the price difference, I personally prefer the LCD2.2.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

LCD-3 and DNA 2A3/WA5-LE won't happen. not enough money and i'd be stuck with stock tubes. also my DLIII might prove to be not enough with these amps (will it be good for WA22?) 
   
  the WA22 all i would need to do is buy 6SN7's since i already have a good selection of 5U4G (black mullard GZ34, mighty 596, miss sophia, and the eml) and some 6080 (RCA 6AS7, TS 5998 and Sylvania 7236).
   
  im totally for buying the WA22, but i wanted to be sure its a sure improvement in soundstage/imaging/detail/ transparency over the WA6-SE and WA2. and also, i would not want to lose any magic with the T1. the WA2 is almost primarily for the T1, its just smooth, musical, and well awesome, but it can be a little dull at times still. thats why i was considering tube rolling, maybe updating JAN-Sylvania 7308's to some nice CCa's or something would bring the last bit of improvement for it to be a perfect setup, for me, its really close already.
   
  as for the WA6-SE, i'm enjoying it with HD 800 and LCD-2, the HD 800 just sound so right on it, detailed, open, energy, bass, but it still gets a tad bit too hot sometimes. i was considering 6SN7  because theres no perfect combination with the other tubes, either they're too harsh, or too dull, and i wanted to see if 6SN7 would give me some sweetness and tonality while still maintaining control and transparency. the T1 doesn't do too well with WA6-SE, too bright.
   
  of course, my worries with the WA22 are these: 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/632848/wa2-or-wa22-for-beyerdynamic-t1 this one about T1 not having power
   
  and also http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22 this one, seems i could basically replace WA6-SE with WA22 and the review would be exactly the same. 
   
  and a few other things of course, however, if its enough of an upgrade to get the WA22, then i'd definitely buy it. i would expect it to be better than either WA2 and WA6-SE to a noticeable degree, and to be not as lush as WA2, but not as bright and aggressive as a WA6-SE (ive actually read somewhere that WA6-SE was more tubish and musical). also, it would have to be magical with the T1 similar to WA2. (ive read somewhere also that the WA22 was better with T1 than some other similarly priced amps, that there is synergy).


----------



## joeribt

Quote: 





tintin220 said:


> I mean honestly, this is impossible for any of us to tell you. Given the very limited symptoms (rectifiers blowing), the problem could be any one of a number of issues with the amp, including, despite the low probability, that maybe all of your tubes were defective.
> 
> In my own natural curiosity, I'd be the type of person to try to it and see what happens. If it also blows then you know for sure the amp is defective, and given this fact, I don't see why under warranty Woo Audio wouldn't fix/replace both the amp and give you at least a new stock tube.
> 
> So I'd try it myself. But that by no means means I think it is safe for the tube. In all likelihood, it might be a problem that occurred after you started rolling (or because of it, if a tube was bad?).


 
   
Thanks. Jack said I should put the stock rectifier back in.  So I did and it worked well. After that, a day later, I tried tube rolling again an put a Mullard GZ34. Again, it burnt immediately, as if it gets too much power. This was a different tube, from a different seller. I am afraid to try again, as this is becoming very, very costly. The WA6 should be ideal for tube rolling, so I am not sure what my next step should be. Jack is convinced it is not the amp.


----------



## jc9394

@Dubstep Girl, I think you will need to save up enough money to get the WA22 and compare it to the WA6 and WA2 you have to make sure the WA22 meets your need.  
   
  I only test T1 for few hours during the meet, with my setup PWD>WA22, I can't get the volume past 11 o'clock without damaging my ears.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> Thanks. Jack said I should put the stock rectifier back in.  So I did and it worked well. After that, a day later, I tried tube rolling again an put a Mullard GZ37. Again, it burnt immediately, as if it gets too much power. This was a different tube, from a different seller. I am afraid to try again, as this is becoming very, very costly. The WA6 should be ideal for tube rolling, so I am not sure what my next step should be. Jack is convinced it is not the amp.


 
  do you have any 5U4G to test other than the stock one?  maybe get couple different brands of 5U4G to make sure it is not the tubes.


----------



## joeribt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> do you have any 5U4G to test other than the stock one?  maybe get couple different brands of 5U4G to make sure it is not the tubes.


 
  I have an RCA 5U4G one, but it's the last one, and a Mullard GZ37. I blew 4 quite expensive tubes so far, so I am afraid to do this now...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Get some cheap ones from ebay to test. don't keep using good tubes.
  If it does turn out to be the amp, who will pay for the tubes? What's the stock tube again?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> I have an RCA 5U4G one, but it's the last one, and a Mullard GZ37. I blew 4 quite expensive tubes so far, so I am afraid to do this now...


 
   
  how about getting one of these to test?
   
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=072-330  
   
  Did you get the tubes from Jack?  What about get one from him (ask him to tested with WA6 before shipping) and if that blows, you know it is the amp.


----------



## joeribt

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Get some cheap ones from ebay to test. don't keep using good tubes.
> If it does turn out to be the amp, who will pay for the tubes? What's the stock tube again?


 
  The stock tube is a Chinese 274B. I think that is one of the cheapest there are? What would be a cheap tube you'd recommend (I see quite expensive ones on eBay). Thanks!


----------



## joeribt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> how about getting one of these to test?
> 
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=072-330
> 
> Did you get the tubes from Jack?  What about get one from him (ask him to tested with WA6 before shipping) and if that blows, you know it is the amp.


 
   
  I got the tubes from eBay. I will have a go on these sovteks.


----------



## Ultrainferno

A cheap 5Z4G?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> I got the tubes from eBay. I will have a go on these sovteks.


 
   
  Get a stock replacement from Jack and ask him to test it first.
   
  Do you know the voltage coming out of the wall jack?  Did you tried to use a different location/wall jack/surge protector?  I notice some of the 5U4G is more fragile than others.  The stock one can take a higher voltage than the Sofia or EML one.


----------



## 2359glenn

Get A cheep 5U4GB these can handle more then a don't look as good as a 5U4G but a better tube.
  Or a 596 they can handle the inrush current.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Get A cheep 5U4GB these can handle more then a don't look as good as a 5U4G but a better tube.
> Or a *596 *they can handle the inrush current.


 
   
  X2, Listen to da man...


----------



## joeribt

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Get A cheep 5U4GB these can handle more then a don't look as good as a 5U4G but a better tube.
> Or a 596 they can handle the inrush current.


 
   
  OK - I will do this or, as suggested above, ask Jack for a tube which then hopefully falls under a warranty.
  Thanks for all your help, you make me deal with my frustration


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> OK - I will do this or, as suggested above, ask Jack for a tube which then hopefully falls under a warranty.
> Thanks for all your help, you make me deal with my frustration


 
   
  Personally I will order one from Jack and ask him to test it with WA6 before shipping.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> LCD-3 and DNA 2A3/WA5-LE won't happen. not enough money and i'd be stuck with stock tubes. also my DLIII might prove to be not enough with these amps (will it be good for WA22?)
> 
> the WA22 all i would need to do is buy 6SN7's since i already have a good selection of 5U4G (black mullard GZ34, mighty 596, miss sophia, and the eml) and some 6080 (RCA 6AS7, TS 5998 and Sylvania 7236).
> 
> ...


 
  I can't comment on the magic, but I cannot imagine that the 22 is going to lack power.  Granted I don't own a pair of T1's, but with my HD650s (600 ohms) the volume is at near earbleed level when I have the attenuator at 12 o'clock.  I can go slightly higher with the LCD 2s, but not much, and generally I listen at much lower levels.
   
  I think at this level it is so much a matter of personal taste that I don't think much advice that can be given here is tremendously useful.  I love the sound that I get with my 22/LCD2 combo and the 22/HD650 combo.  That said, there are many here who would poo-poo this as being beneath them, while others here dream of such a set-up but cannot justify the cost.  One problem is it's difficult to A/B the amps your interested in with what you have, of course, so you often have to make the decision without having much experience.  I chose to get a WA22 with upgraded tubes over the WA5LE with stock tubes based on long term cost (300B tubes can be just silly expensive, imho) and am not looking back.  Don't spend too much time maximizing over what amp you're listening to and concentrate on just listening to the music.  If you really feel that the WA6SE is leaving your music flat, jettison it and try something else.  But if you're looking to tweak out that last tiny bit that you _think_ you might be missing, you have to decide if it's worth the money.
   
  I know that I'm not being terribly helpful, but there you are.  Best of luck with your decision!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> I can't comment on the magic, but I cannot imagine that the 22 is going to lack power.  Granted I don't own a pair of T1's, but with my *HD650s (600 ohms)* the volume is at near earbleed level when I have the attenuator at 12 o'clock.  I can go slightly higher with the LCD 2s, but not much, and generally I listen at much lower levels.


 
   
  Is this new?  I was away from head-fi for few months...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have the 2, 6se and 22 and find them all quite different but I do find the GEC A1834 the best '6AS7G' though I do like the 5998  and 7236 valves. I will probably end up with A1834 in the 2 and 5998 in the 22. You seem to have many of the good rectifiers already (596 / metal GZ34) etc. Best 6SN7 for the 22 will be a 6F8G and adapter though is not a tube I would use in the 6SE but there are lots of good US / UK ones to allow a rolling balance for other tubes. Atm I like the Mullard CV2493 in 6se (selected low noise version of CV2492) which is basically an 6922 across the pond (E88CC here or E88CC-01 for the low noise version Mullard occasdionally did). Plenty more life in rolling tubes


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Is this new?  I was away from head-fi for few months...


 
  Sorry...maybe I misrepresented my post.  I meant HD650's.  Not that new...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Sorry...maybe I misrepresented my post.  I meant HD650's.  Not that new...


 
   
  I meant the HD650 is 300 ohm, you listed it as 600 ohm.


----------



## dminches

Dubstep, I think you should consider upgrading your DAC instead of going to a new HP amp.  While the WA22 might be a nicer sounding amp than the WA-6SE, I think you would see a bigger difference with a new DAC.  You can only get out what you put in.  The PS Audio DAC is a nice piece, but if you spent $1500 on a new DAC I think you would see a big difference.


----------



## tintin220

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Dubstep, I think you should consider upgrading your DAC instead of going to a new HP amp.  While the WA22 might be a nicer sounding amp than the WA-6SE, I think you would see a bigger difference with a new DAC.  You can only get out what you put in.  The PS Audio DAC is a nice piece, but if you spent $1500 on a new DAC I think you would see a big difference.


 
   
  I'm going to politely disagree here. Everything has diminishing returns as you go up in price, and it varies by person as to what point those returns are inaudible, but different components are more vulnerable to a steeper decline than others. Generally speaking, headphones and speakers are where you by far see the most difference in quality as well as sound profile/signature. Next, the amp. And then last, the DAC suffers most from diminishing returns (or if you believe in cables, I guess that would be last). 
   
  I'm going try not to step on any toes here, but it is of *my personal opinion* that price ≠ performance. It often does and generally holds true up to a certain price point, but equally often, does not, as price is something that can be arbitrary. Once you get into the really high end range, unless you have a good understanding of the technology and design, you really have no idea whether or not the manufacturer just decided to slap a premium on it. So spending another $1500 on a DAC might not be an upgrade, could be a sidegrade, or even from a technical standpoint, a downgrade, especially considering that the DAC is really the component where you're likely to see the least performance improvement. You're right in that you only get what you put in, but when realistically, what you put in already a near perfect signal, a more near perfect signal is a really tiny delta.
   
  I'd say get the amp, especially since you know it's from the same manufacturer and therefore have a better idea of the performance hierarchy, than to get a separate DAC, where you really have no frame of comparison beforehand.
   
  Controversial opinions regarding DACs, hence the spoiler tag. I'm not telling anyone that they're wrong, just these are my professional opinions on the matter:
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
  I believe that amps can have a tremendous impact on sound quality and are a hugely important decision to make in your sound pathway. But DACs? Not really. I am an EECS engineer who graduated from MIT and while I generally think its impolite and irrelevant to "throw around credentials", in this case, I want to establish that I'm not just same crazy skeptic who hates audiophile brands. Your high end DACs will certainly have better features and better capabilities as far as obtaining a better signal but I don't think the difference between something like an ODAC, based on the published, measured technical data, is discernable to human ears compared to a much "higher end" DAC. Differences, even measurable ones, exist for sure, the key phrase here is "discernable to human ears". 
   
  When properly A/Bed then, thereby eliminated biases, etc., how come some DACs sound better than others then?! I believe in this case, supposing we're talking about the very high end DACs such as the very, very nice one Dubstep Girl has, the difference may come from "synergy" with the amp, or if you have a tube DAC (which I do and love, but is to me, counterintuitive), the distortion introduced by the tubes. In these cases, what you're really liking here is how the coloration, if it exists, goes together, which is what we tend to call synergy. That has nothing to do with the technical capability or accuracy of the DAC, which is again, why I don't recommend upgrading the DAC. To be completely honest, when you already have a DAC that good, whether you spend $1 or $10,000, you probably won't be able to tell a difference. 
   
  If you can actually tell a huge difference by upgrading once you're already at these price points, then (and I'm not trying to impugn anyone or accuse any brand of doing this of course), your first DAC might actually just not be very good and unfortunately, may represent a case of mediocre design at premium, audiophile prices. /end controversy


----------



## joeribt

jc9394 said:


> Personally I will order one from Jack and ask him to test it with WA6 before shipping.




This is what I have now suggested to Jack, and asking for the tube to be under warranty if it blows again in my amp as he excludes the amp is faulty. He says that "it seems there was some sort of short circuit. Our customers have been using this tube so it should work. The only thing I can think of is a bad tube." Even though I blew up the fourth tube today. At least that would mean he should not have a problem to fully guarantee that a tube from him will work. 

Thanks again for all your advice.


----------



## dminches

tintin20, at some point everything has diminishing returns.  However, I do not feel that at $1500 a DAC has come close to that point.  I have listened to a lot of DACs between $200 and $3000 and even in that range there is a pretty big difference.  However, from $500 to $1500 there is a huge difference.  And when I say $1500, I am not talking about a unit that has a jacked up price.  Frankly, one can make the argument that you are paying a lot for the Woo Amps, which I think sound great, given how nice they look.  It cost a lot to design and manufacture good looking cases.  My point is, the $1500 DAC I am thinking about is one from a place like Van Alstine, where you are not paying much for the looks.  You are paying for the innards.
   
  Finally, one can tailor the sound of the Woo amps by tube rolling.  We all read about that in this forum.  However, the PS Audio DAC has 1 sound.  You can't change it (unless I am missing something).
   
  I stand by my statement that putting $1500 into a new DAC will do more for Dubstep Girl than upgrading to a WA22.  JMO.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





tintin220 said:


> I'm going to politely disagree here. Everything has diminishing returns as you go up in price, and it varies by person as to what point those returns are inaudible, but different components are more vulnerable to a steeper decline than others. Generally speaking, headphones and speakers are where you by far see the most difference in quality as well as sound profile/signature. Next, the amp. And then last, the DAC suffers most from diminishing returns (or if you believe in cables, I guess that would be last).
> 
> I'm going try not to step on any toes here, but it is of *my personal opinion* that price ≠ performance. It often does and generally holds true up to a certain price point, but equally often, does not, as price is something that can be arbitrary. Once you get into the really high end range, unless you have a good understanding of the technology and design, you really have no idea whether or not the manufacturer just decided to slap a premium on it. So spending another $1500 on a DAC might not be an upgrade, could be a sidegrade, or even from a technical standpoint, a downgrade, especially considering that the DAC is really the component where you're likely to see the least performance improvement. You're right in that you only get what you put in, but when realistically, what you put in already a near perfect signal, a more near perfect signal is a really tiny delta.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, I have to politely disagree with you too.  I'm an EE grad but not from an ivy school like you did.  I have both PS Digital Link III and PS PWD at the same time feed into a WA22 unbalanced using same cable and I can definitely tell the difference.  
   
  I don't disagree with you when you think logic, bit is bit, there should not be any changes in sound but when it comes to music, I trust my ears over logic.


----------



## dminches

Plus, it isn't just bit to bit since the DAC is now converting it to an analog signal.  That's why DACs sound different.  We aren't talking about digital cables.  We are talking about DACs.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I stand by my statement that putting $1500 into a *new DAC will do more for Dubstep Girl than upgrading to a WA22.  JMO.*


 
   
  X2, when I upgraded from DL III to PWD, I was floored, I can't believe it myself but the difference it there...


----------



## grokit

The WA22 will be fine with the T1 as long as you're using the higher-powered tubes. The T1 needs the same kind of power as LCD-2/HD800, meaning the requirements are on a different level than HD600/50 so the GEC's etc. won't be as good. The WA22 would also let DG take advantage of the DLIII's balanced outputs. Balanced headphone cables aren't necessary for the WA22, especially for a hardwired headphone. I do think that some headphones benefit from balanced cables even out of the WA22, but wouldn't bother for the T1 unless you're pretty sure you will keep them indefinitely.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I'll play devils advocate here on the subject of 6SN7's as there are some serious supporters here.
> 
> I don't think they are an ideal tube for use in the 6SE, especially with your orthos.  I think the 6SN7 is a great tube, but it's better used elsewhere.  I wouldn't count on them to cure your upgraditis.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is sound advice. Though, I would add, in my own personal experience that I found the 6SN7 added to my listening pleasure with the _6 Special Edition_. But, after rolling in several tubes, I also discovered it could not and did not cure my upgraditis.


----------



## Skylab

A DAC as a source component by definition includes an analog output section. This is no different from an amplifier. It's analog circuitry and a power supply, based on a design, and parts, and one will sound different than another, based on those parts and circuit, irrespective of the DAC *chip* used in the unit. A (good) commercial DAC is much more than just the DAC chip.


----------



## rosgr63

To me the Power and Output sections of a DAC are critical and as if not more important than the chip itself.


----------



## dminches

Stavros, I agree, and my designers would too.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

One of the biggest improvements in my system's sound was upgrading from DACMagic to W4S DAC-2.  Blacker backgrounds, everything more clearly defined.


----------



## tintin220

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Plus, it isn't just bit to bit since the DAC is now converting it to an analog signal.  That's why DACs sound different.  We aren't talking about digital cables.  We are talking about DACs.


 
   
  I'm not telling any of you that you're wrong, nor am I going to tell you to A/B, etc, because you're not wrong. If you believe that you can hear a difference and that one exists, then it does to you and that's the end of the matter. I also wasn't throwing out my background to brag, just to deflect from the potential to be trolled down since I know I am in a minority here when it comes to my stance as far as DACs go and I truly don't believe that (aside from tube DACs), above a certain (and fairly low) threshold, DACs are audibly different. And I'm not familiar with those models, but there is always possibility of course that the DAC you're stepping up from just actually isn't that good. Or maybe I just have worse ears than you all do. Who knows? 
   
  Either way, like I said, those are just my _opinions_ on the matter. I'm not telling anyone that they're wrong, just basing my advice on what I know factually about science and electronics design and that I would rather spend the money on the amp than the DAC.  
   
   


jc9394 said:


>





> I don't disagree with you when you think logic, bit is bit, there should not be any changes in sound but when it comes to music, I trust my ears over logic.


 
   
  I don't trust my ears one bit unless I know I have eliminated biases in my testing. Or my scumbag brain for that matter. I know how easily the human mind can be tricked, even when you are aware you being tricked. 
   


rosgr63 said:


> To me the Power and Output sections of a DAC are critical and as if not more important than the chip itself.


 
   
  Agreed, I believe they are more important in fact than the chip, which is far overblown. Again, I'm not arguing that there are no differences. _The key distinction and contention is whether, and what point, those differences between components cease to be discernable to the human ear._ And then, one step further, presuming those differences are audible, how much if any actual impact to your enjoyment there is as far as your listening experience. In this regard, I think your returns will be significantly higher if you went for the amp over the DAC. 
   
  I appreciate, by the way, everyone being fair and civil in this discussion. It's nice to talk to reasonable people as opposed to some of the threads I've seen in the past, which devolves into a "I disagree, so therefore you must be wrong" trollfest.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I meant the HD650 is 300 ohm, you listed it as 600 ohm.


 
  Oh...my mistake.  They are 300 ohm.  Still, I can't imagine a problem driving 600 ohm headphones.


----------



## tintin220

Quote: 





dminches said:


> tintin20, at some point everything has diminishing returns.  However, I do not feel that at $1500 a DAC has come close to that point.  I have listened to a lot of DACs between $200 and $3000 and even in that range there is a pretty big difference.  However, from $500 to $1500 there is a huge difference.  And when I say $1500, I am not talking about a unit that has a jacked up price.  Frankly, one can make the argument that you are paying a lot for the Woo Amps, which I think sound great, given how nice they look.  It cost a lot to design and manufacture good looking cases.  My point is, the $1500 DAC I am thinking about is one from a place like Van Alstine, where you are not paying much for the looks.  You are paying for the innards.
> 
> Finally, one can tailor the sound of the Woo amps by tube rolling.  We all read about that in this forum.  However, the PS Audio DAC has 1 sound.  You can't change it (unless I am missing something).
> 
> I stand by my statement that putting $1500 into a new DAC will do more for Dubstep Girl than upgrading to a WA22.  JMO.


 
   
  Of course, I cannot and will not in any way dispute your personal experience, because I have standing to do that, only offer up my own. I've had the good fortune to be able work with and test a number of very expensive audiophile DACs along with scientific devices with extremely tight tolerances. I couldn't tell a difference between any of them myself and my measurements showed only minute signal differences. Perhaps I should consider myself and my wallet lucky that maybe my ears are just not as sensitive as others, and thus, I don't feel the need to upgrade. 
   
   
  Out of curiosity, what do you mean by paying for the innards? Paying for the actual components or the R&D that went into it? I can agree with the latter for sure, but that's still subject to the designer/manufacturer's valuation. I don't think, however, that even the most high end amp component prices are not anywhere near justifying the selling price on an input cost basis. This was actually my main point, not that I don't think DACs are very different (which is why I put that controversial section in a spoiler quote). Presuming you will be able to hear differences between DACs, assuming a higher priced one is for sure going to be an upgrade (or even have good synergy with your amp) is a bad idea because you're really at the mercy of the designer's price setting. In this case, you really ought to audition one for yourself. Even other people's impressions are too subjective, and only you can know what you'll like. You could argue the same is true for amps, but since the alternative here is a higher end Woo from the _same_ manufacturer, you can be at least confident of improvement as you're moving up the hierarchy. 
   
  EDIT: You make a fine point about tube rolling though. This is precisely the reason I like tube components so much. The effects in my opinion the sound signal from tubes is huge compared to other factors and it can be fun to find new sound signatures you like. It might add some distortion to the signal path, but it's distortion that I like.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks every1 for your replies.
   
  i guess its best if i hear a WA22 before i buy it, seems like it might not be enough of an upgrade, at least not night and day from WA6-SE and WA2, or is it?
    

  same thing for sources, maybe its better for me to just save up and upgrade once its something huge. i wouldn't even be able to get a W4S DAC right now, much less a PWD, if anything it would be a nuwave, and i'm not sure its enough of an upgrade to justify the cost. 
   
  i think i'll go ahead and play with 6SN7 on the WA6-SE, i can always use the tubes for a WA22 (if i do decide to just buy one), or sell them back. 
   
   
  now with that said, do you guys feel i could get just a little more resolution out of my WA2 by upgrading its drive tubes? I have TS 5998 powers and JAN-Sylvania 7308 drive tubes. i really love my WA2, its sooo good with the T1, but i still feel it could be just a bit more resolving and spacious. its like 95% of what i want. the WA6-SE is just right with LCD-2, and with HD 800, i feel it could be just a little bit smoother at times.
   
  i guess its safe to say that i have upgradeitis really bad right now.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  40 bucks does not sound like a cheap alternative.  I got a 5R4 from Jim McShane for under 20, tested.  http://www.mcshanedesign.net/tubes.htm  He might have some others as well.


----------



## GrindingThud

Have you tried 7802 power tubes? It's my favorite tube and I've not found any in a while. If anyone finds a source, let me know.



dubstep girl said:


> now with that said, do you guys feel i could get just a little more resolution out of my WA2 by upgrading its drive tubes? I have TS 5998 powers and JAN-Sylvania 7308 drive tubes. i really love my WA2, its sooo good with the T1, but i still feel it could be just a bit more resolving and spacious. its like 95% of what i want. the WA6-SE is just right with LCD-2, and with HD 800, i feel it could be just a little bit smoother at times.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





2359glenn said:


> Get A cheep 5U4GB these can handle more then a don't look as good as a 5U4G but a better tube.
> Or a 596 they can handle the inrush current.


 
  Hey, Glenn, I'd have to think long and hard before dumping a 596 into an amp that is blowing rectifiers no matter how much inrush it can handle especially since the guy has already lost four others that were "expensive".  Two cents.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Have you tried 7802 power tubes? It's my favorite tube and I've not found any in a while. If anyone finds a source, let me know.


 
   
  never even heard of it.


----------



## GrindingThud

http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/077/7/7802.pdf



dubstep girl said:


> never even heard of it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i guess its safe to say that i have upgradeitis really bad right now.


 
   
  Lol, just went through a bout of that myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I just want to add that as much as I love my WA22 and admire a WA5, the WA5LE would be a big step over the WA22. But it would still be worth it to save a bit longer for an actual WA5, and definitely better to get a stock WA5 than an upgraded WA5LE.
   
  Overall I'm glad I went balanced, it keeps me from chasing that particular dragon. Meaning that if I had an LE I'd wish I had an actual WA5, but now that I am all balanced it is easier to leave these concerns behind. As mentioned it is considerably easier to roll tubes in a WA22 than in a WA5/LE. I had to have it especially modified to use it this way, but now that it is a preamp my WA22 will be the centerpiece of my system indefinitely. With the upgrades and by adding additional components, I have matched if not exceeded the versatility of a WA5-based system. Over the years I have built a system that can drive virtually any headphone, and do it quite competently. There is still plenty of room for upgrades but the WA22 is not one of those components that will ever need it. I would upgrade just about every other component in my system first, and even then it would be hard to beat the WA22's SQ.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> T1? I know MH says its slightly better than wa2, but read somewhere its not very good and doesnt get loud enuf


 
  With 7236 or 5998 and a balanced source I could get the T1s plenty loud. The pairing was mighty good.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> With 7236 or 5998 and a balanced source I could get the T1s plenty loud. The pairing was mighty good.


 
   
  hows the synergy compared to WA2? is it well balanced smooth and musical? or will it show off the edgier nature of the T1. 
   
  and will the DLIII be a solid balanced source for it?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dminches said:


> tintin20, at some point everything has diminishing returns.  However, I do not feel that at $1500 a DAC has come close to that point.  I have listened to a lot of DACs between $200 and $3000 and even in that range there is a pretty big difference.  However, from $500 to $1500 there is a huge difference.  And when I say $1500, I am not talking about a unit that has a jacked up price.  Frankly, one can make the argument that you are paying a lot for the Woo Amps, which I think sound great, given how nice they look.  It cost a lot to design and manufacture good looking cases.  My point is, the $1500 DAC I am thinking about is one from a place like Van Alstine, where you are not paying much for the looks.  You are paying for the innards.
> 
> Finally, one can tailor the sound of the Woo amps by tube rolling.  We all read about that in this forum.  However, the PS Audio DAC has 1 sound.  You can't change it (unless I am missing something).
> 
> I stand by my statement that putting $1500 into a new DAC will do more for Dubstep Girl than upgrading to a WA22.  JMO.


 
  Just my experiences...I found a good step up in performance when I moved from my PS Audio DLIII to the Cary XCiter DAC and W4S DAC-2. I would have held onto the Cary dac longer, but without a balanced output, it wasn't a great match for my WA22 (at the time) or my GS-X (now). The comparison testing was performed on my WA2 and Meier Concerto (both now gone too). I found the upgrade very worthwhile and I agree with you Dave.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hows the synergy compared to WA2? is it well balanced smooth and musical? or will it show off the edgier nature of the T1. and hows the drive for the LCD-2?
> 
> doees the WA22 have tons of headroom like the WA6-SE, or is it slightly closer to the WA2.
> 
> and will the DLIII be a solid balanced source for it?


 
  They were very close, but I slightly preferred the WA22 with them. But the WA22 had about $900 of tube upgrades on it...so that part wasn't cheap. Please see my post above. I think short term your DLIII is fine. But the next upgrade I would look into would be the DAC.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm...
   
  a W4S is certainly very tempting


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i would buy the DAC-1, dunno how much better the 2 is)


 
   
  DubstepG, I'd say save up and get the WA5LE.  It's the one you'd get and be set for life!
   
  Umm, DAC-1 handles up to 96kHz, DAC-2 goes all the way up to 192kHz (comparison: http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/i/74030/212814/333112)
   
  I just upgraded from a Bifrost to Mytek 192; felt somewhat disappointing.  I didn't hear anything difference.  May be it's Mytek's fault


----------



## Dubstep Girl

at the WA5's price, i'd consider a DNA 2A3 as well.
   
  hmmm i give up, im just going in circles, i'll just wait till i can listen to a WA22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> DubstepG, I'd say save up and get the WA5LE.  It's the one you'd get and be set for life!
> 
> *Umm, DAC-1 handles up to 96kHz, DAC-2 goes all the way up to 192kHz* (comparison: http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/i/74030/212814/333112)
> 
> I just upgraded from a Bifrost to Mytek 192; felt somewhat disappointing.  I didn't hear anything difference.  May be it's Mytek's fault


 
   
  Allow me to step outside the tea room - the listening room is completely dismantled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - and share my view on the DAC-1/DAC-2. My DAC-1, while lacking the Preamp/HT options, is still sup'd up to DAC-2 specs (Digital board; Low ESR "Super Caps"). 
   
  Also, I'm using a USBridge- Digital Coax into the shoe box for 24/192 kHz. I did a few Redbook shootouts with USB input versus Coax and I easily preferred the latter. For those of you looking at Pre-Owned DACs, I've not yet decided on getting the latest W4S upgrades or showing my early DAC-1 the door at an extremely attractive price. Will know more 1st of June...


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Allow me to step outside the tea room - the listening room is completely dismantled
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Silent One, how many avatars do you have??


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm, if the W4S-1 is really the same as W4S-2 except for 24/96 vs 24/192 and a few less extra features, it seems attractive at the 995$ price point and i could probably upgrade. 
   
  i would be fine with my Musical Fidelity V Link as well since its 24/96, i wouldn't care too much about the 24/192 capability.


----------



## Silent One

DSG, the DAC-1 represents a really good value, especially if one doesn't need the icing on the cake. A perfectly good Pound cake can serve one well.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I have heard master recordings done on 24/192 from Linn Records and felt that you are not missing anything by using 24/96. 24/192 takes twice as much space on the hard drive as 24/96. For example the Bach; St. John Passion by the Dunedin Consort took about 8.81gigs of hard disk space just for audio no video and there is even more from Linn Records related to this performance.  You can in some cases degraded the sound quality using 24/192 since some analog sections of amps, pre-amps or op-amps can distort or become unstable trying to handle the very high frequencies that you normally cannot hear and you could hear some distortion byproducts in the audible range. It is pointless to record older analog recording into 24/192 since the tapes and masters at the time simply did not have the bandwidth to record much information at the very high frequencies that would be buried in the noise. You would have to all digital equipment from the start to gain benefit using higher sampling rate.  I have learn from many years of experience the closer the copy you have to the recording master the better the general sound quality is, not the sample rate being used.  I have heard the playback of a digital recording master just after 5 minutes after a summer concert a few years back and the quality just blew me away and no way can a CD sound like that. You want the recording engineer to do the best possible job in the take so that you do not have to use heavy post processing or remixing is what really helps in sound quality. I still think that the WA5 or the WA5LE would be the one to get for Woo and you would be all set. It may also be cost effective to get outstanding performances with great recording quality in mind as well. [/size]


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium].[/size]


 
   
  agreed, i have not heard a difference between 24/96 and 24/192 besides file size.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> DSG, the DAC-1 represents a really good value, especially if one doesn't need the icing on the cake. A perfectly good Pound cake can serve one well.


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> at the WA5's price, i'd consider a DNA 2A3 as well.
> 
> hmmm i give up, im just going in circles, i'll just wait till i can listen to a WA22.


 
   
  When do you think that's going to happen.  Next audio show you go to?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> When do you think that's going to happen.  Next audio show you go to?


 
   
  yeah the chicago one is june or something.
   
  i don't think theres anyone locally with a WA22. none of the audio stores near here carry much as far as headphone amps go either.


----------



## Silent One

June will be here in no time! But I think you missed WooAudio a couple of months back in Chicago, I think.


----------



## joeribt

Quote: 





bbophead said:


> Hey, Glenn, I'd have to think long and hard before dumping a 596 into an amp that is blowing rectifiers no matter how much inrush it can handle especially since the guy has already lost four others that were "expensive".  Two cents.


 
   
  I've got no more tubes left at the moment so I'll wait for Jack to reply and see if he's ready to offer warranty on a tested tube. He is absolutely sure it is not the amp, even though all four tubes blew.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> at the WA5's price, i'd consider a DNA 2A3 as well.
> 
> hmmm i give up, im just going in circles, i'll just wait till i can listen to a WA22.


 
   
  Many say a balanced WA22 sounds better than my WA5LE on the HD800.  The push pull balanced approach has better synergy.  I'm still hanging on to my WA5LE, though!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Many say a balanced WA22 sounds better than my WA5LE on the HD800.  The push pull balanced approach has better synergy.  I'm still hanging on to my WA5LE, though!


 
  Gee like this?
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/450115/wooaudio-wa22-vs-wa5le
   
  It all depends if you like the 300B sound and it really comes down what your ears like.  I did find that finding a good balanced DAC was a bit of  a pain in the neck. I went thru four different balanced DAC's before I found the one I like and it is not the most expensive one I tried. Part of the problem was too many parts in the DAC that needs to be carefully matched in four sections to sound good in balanced mode. I really enjoy the Beyers T70 on the WA5LE but I am not too crazy about the HD800.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i wouldn't even be able to get a W4S DAC right now, much less a PWD, if anything it would be a nuwave, and i'm not sure its enough of an upgrade to justify the cost.


 
   
  Not trying to spend you money for you, but I have seen a few W4S DAC-2's on Audiogon for around $100-$1200  recently....


----------



## reeltime

I got my W4S DAC-2 on eBay in December for $1200


----------



## jc9394

There is one on Agon for 1150 now.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i wouldn't be able to grab it. i'd have to sell HE-500 + norse cable + DLIII, and hope its worth it. i suppose i can buy used in the future though and save money on the DAC.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I got my W4S DAC-2 on eBay in December for $1200


 
  I got mine here on Head-Fi's for sale area for $1200 as well....Great DAC!


----------



## snapple10

another option might be to check with Wyred4sound directly for B-stocks, might be a little more than buying used but will come with full warranty=
  peace of mind


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> at the WA5's price, i'd consider a DNA 2A3 as well.
> 
> hmmm i give up, im just going in circles, i'll just wait till i can listen to a WA22.


 
   
  As much as I like the WA5LE while in my house for a month, I can't justify spending another $1000 for 300B tubes...
   
  I think I will try to forget about the WA5 and spend more time with WA22 instead...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> As much as I like the WA5LE while in my house for a month, I can't justify spending another $1000 for 300B tubes...
> 
> I think I will try to forget about the WA5 and spend more time with WA22 instead...


 
   
  same reason im not considering it. not to mention jack just raised its price from 2500 to 2750....  there wouldn't be much tube rolling with the WA5. i'd also have to get matched pairs of rectifiers and still buy 6SN7. (double 596 and double EML/Sophia, ouch)
   
   
  really gotta hear a WA22 soon. also still considering keeping HE-500, just popped in the GZ34 (plastic base mullard) + 6GL7 combo with them on the WA6-SE and im surprised how good they sound, they're forward and livelier with a lot of bass.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> same reason im not considering it. not to mention jack just raised its price from 2500 to 2750....  there wouldn't be much tube rolling with the WA5. i'd also have to get matched pairs of rectifiers and still buy 6SN7. (double 596 and double EML/Sophia, ouch)
> 
> 
> really gotta hear a WA22 soon. also still considering keeping HE-500, just popped in the *GZ34 (plastic base mullard) + 6GL7 combo with them on the WA6-SE* and im surprised how good they sound, they're forward and livelier with a lot of bass.


 
   
  On WA6/SE, I still think the GZ34 (metal based or black) sounds the best.  Even better than EML, Sofia, or 596...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> On WA6/SE, I still think the GZ34 (metal based or black) sounds the best.  Even better than EML, Sofia, or 596...


 
   
  i think they're all on the same level roughly, just different presentations. i have to do more tube rolling with GZ34 though, it can be edgy at times. 
   
  i can imagine the rare early 50s metal base to be very good though, probably like my mullard black base, but improvements everywhere.


----------



## kchew

I wasn't too impressed with the GZ34 (black and metal base) with my WA22, until I paired them with 5998s. Then I really started enjoying them. It's more "solid state" sounding than the 596 though, so while it's better for rock and electronica, I still prefer the 596 overall.
   
  The metal base version is an improvement over the normal black base, but to me it's not a day and night difference. Sure it's smoother, less edgier and punchier, but ridiculous prices make it poor value for money. Look for a used, cosmetically-challenged one that collectors would shun if you really want a metal base version, I paid $200 for mine and I wouldn't go higher.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Gee like this?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/450115/wooaudio-wa22-vs-wa5le
> 
> It all depends if you like the 300B sound and it really comes down what your ears like.  I did find that finding a good balanced DAC was a bit of  a pain in the neck. I went thru four different balanced DAC's before I found the one I like and it is not the most expensive one I tried. Part of the problem was too many parts in the DAC that needs to be carefully matched in four sections to sound good in balanced mode. I really enjoy the Beyers T70 on the WA5LE but I am not too crazy about the HD800.


 

 If possible, can you briefly describe the 300B sound. Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> another option might be to check with Wyred4sound directly for B-stocks, might be a little more than buying used but will come with full warranty=
> peace of mind


 
   
  That's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my story. And snapple10 nailed it Olympic style! My "B-stock" DAC-1 was still honoured with the 3-year warranty. I like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that! A couple of months later, I returned the DAC to Wyered4Sound for_ speed work... speed kills! _ upgraded Digital Board; Low ESR "Super Caps."
   
  Note: If any member decides to buy a DAC-1 or 2 in the used market, the warranty is transferable.


----------



## Silent One

FYI ~
   
  I just received a quote from a broker: 4 United Electronics USAF-596 (NIB) - $275 each.
   
  Um, NO
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THANK YOU! ... _Next! _


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> As much as I like the WA5LE while in my house for a month, *I can't justify spending another $1000 for 300B tubes...*
> 
> I think I will try to forget about the WA5 and spend more time with WA22 instead...


 
   
  I know what you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mean. BUT...
   
  ... for my potential WA5 build, I currently have under consideration the '45' tube or 2A3. WooAudio has already built a number of WA5|WA5-LE amps around the '45' tube instead of the 300B. FAR cheaper tube options. However, it will only output 2 watts, though many say it returns a better sound. Something to consider. 
   
  And me? Still undecided.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





silent one said:


> FYI ~
> 
> I just received a quote from a broker: 4 United Electronics USAF-596 (NIB) - $275 each.
> 
> ...


 
  What.
   
  Damn inflation works fast in audiophile circles!


----------



## Ultrainferno

That's not even funny anymore...


----------



## Silent One

_Seems, we have been over fishing the sea..._


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> What.
> 
> Damn inflation works fast in audiophile circles!


 
  Is this 596 inflation trend likely to be like the Western Electric 300B? Surely there must be thousands of 596 tubes stored somewhere. Glenn only introduced this tube to the audiophile community less than 2 years ago--if that.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> FYI ~
> 
> I just received a quote from a broker: 4 United Electronics USAF-596 (NIB) - $275 each.
> 
> ...




Two matched pairs, one pair NIB $800, one pair with less than 50 hours each $600.

Pm me if interested. 






















J/K


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There are still a good number of these electron tubes out there - surplus for RF Transmitters and perhaps something else. Many of the used rectifiers get pulled from equipment that has or will be retired from service. 
   
  And the new tubes? Those in supply don't know who the heck we are or what we do with them in the audio community. There's a HUGE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 disconnect going on here!
   
  I think the last production I saw was 1964...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  We no jokin', baby! _I'm walking to your in-box right now..._


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Is this 596 inflation trend likely to be like the Western Electric 300B? Surely there must be thousands of 596 tubes stored somewhere. Glenn only introduced this tube to the audiophile community less than 2 years ago--if that.


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> There are still a good number of these electron tubes out there - surplus for RF Transmitters and perhaps something else. Many of the used rectifiers get pulled from equipment that has or will be retired from service.
> 
> And the new tubes? Those in supply don't know who the heck we are or what we do with them in the audio community. There's a HUGE
> 
> ...


 
   
  DAMN,
   
  I should stocked up when I can!  Did you grab any from my source a few weeks ago?  (he's out of stock now).


----------



## Silent One

No, I wasn't ready. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a difference a week makes!


----------



## grokit

Sounds like some well-connected opportunist has cornered the market 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## Silent One

Next chance I get, I'm going to invest in a few of them. I really like that Glass!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Two matched pairs, one pair NIB $800, one pair with less than 50 hours each $600.


 
   
   
  a few more years and this might be standard price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  but it is the_ MIGHTY 596........_


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I know what you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Interesting...didn't know that there is another option besides the 300B for the WA5.


----------



## bfreedma

dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Makes me glad I bought a backup on one of the recent group buys!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Interesting...didn't know that there is another option besides the 300B for the WA5.


 
   
  Are you suggesting that when you go out to dine, you won't inquire about what's not on the menu? Could be a discovery for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




waiting to happen.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bfreedma said:


> Makes me glad I bought a backup on one of the recent group buys!


 
   
  On that last buy, I wanted to buy 10 and _badly. _But found myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _with the rabbit ears..._


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> We no jokin', baby! _I'm walking to your in-box right now..._


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm listening to Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra with the Beyer T90 using the new Rein Audio X3 DAC, WA2 as pre amp and Lafigaro 339 as amp and it's simply awesome.
  Just to say that using a quality dac really ups the quality of your system. Just my 2 cents for the Dubstep Girl upgrading discussion


----------



## stevendjm

Hello everybody,

Recently I decide to buy a wa5le to go with my HD800.
Now the question is whether or not I should spend another thousand to take the part upgrade. I will go for tubes upgrades for sure, as Jack pointed out that tubes can improve the sonic performance greatly. but he did not mention how parts upgrade can influence the sound in real hearing.
Has anyone who has heard both the stock and Maxxed? I would appreciate it very much if you can share your thoughts.

Or, to those who are the current owner, is your wa5le stock or with parts upgrade?

I am new here, and I appreciate your ideas. Thanks !

Steven


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm listening to Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra with the Beyer T90 using the new Rein Audio X3 DAC, WA2 as pre amp and Lafigaro 339 as amp and it's simply awesome.
> Just to say that using a quality dac really ups the quality of your system. Just my 2 cents for the Dubstep Girl upgrading discussion


 
  I agree - that binaural recording really shines when the entire system is capable. For me it is a Violectric V800 DAC ahead of either a WA3+ or WA7 to the T90. Both result in a stellar listening experience.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





stevendjm said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> Recently I decide to buy a wa5le to go with my HD800.
> Now the question is whether or not I should spend another thousand to take the part upgrade. I will go for tubes upgrades for sure, as Jack pointed out that tubes can improve the sonic performance greatly. but he did not mention how parts upgrade can influence the sound in real hearing.
> ...


 
   
  Based on what I've seen, heard and read: in some cases, a parts upgrade may or may not return a sonic enhancement. This has been my listening experience with other amps (not WooAudio amps) and it will depend on the parts in question as well.
   
  However, I know your question here is specific: based on Jack's comments and owners past and present, my impression is the selected upgrades for the WA5 & LE will improve the amp's performance and reliability. Something to consider if you keep the amp.
   
  Tubes are available for fine tuning...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  So... this is what I awoke to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going back to bed!


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 
   
  Beautiful!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





crazyray said:


> Beautiful!


 
   
  And can cause sleepless nights. I recently had the same sleepless experience when I saw your listening room.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'm listening to Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra with the Beyer T90 using the new Rein Audio X3 DAC, WA2 as pre amp and Lafigaro 339 as amp and it's simply awesome.
> Just to say that using a quality dac really ups the quality of your system. Just my 2 cents for the Dubstep Girl upgrading discussion


 
   
  thanks. im still looking at amp/dac upgrades. WA22 and a 1k dac seems to be the best way to go as of now.  
   
  W4S is still my first choice, but then i saw a post somewhere on here that DLIII with a USB/SPDIF converter isn't enough of a difference to make the upgrade to W4S worth it. and then theres posts saying that its much better.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thanks. im still looking at amp/dac upgrades. WA22 and a 1k dac seems to be the best way to go as of now.
> 
> W4S is still my first choice, but then i saw a post somewhere on here that DLIII with a USB/SPDIF converter isn't enough of a difference to make the upgrade to W4S worth it. and then theres posts saying that its much better.


 
  If you decide to keep the HE-500, you may want to experiment with some spectral shaping. If you use JRiver Media Center, Foobar2000, WinAmp or other windows PC player that supports VST plugins there is an excellent EQ called electri-Q that rivals many top end studio digital EQ processors (which are used frequently in mastering the music we hear.) I have developed several curves using a headphone measurement system that brings out the details in the high end without becoming harsh for the HE-500. If you decide to try that route let me know and I can send you the parameters used to change the spectrum.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Typical Head-Fi...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The W4S DAC-2 was a very nice and noticeable upgrade from my DacMagic Plus. I am very pleased. A few members have an issue with W4S's USB implementation. There will be an upgrade in a month or so for an enhanced USB for all current DAC-2 owners, if you want to purchase it. I am on the fence, since I am not unhappy with the current performance. I do appreciate the upgrade ability of the W4S Dac's. Nice to know that you can stay current, if you choose to.


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





silent one said:


> And can cause sleepless nights. I recently had the same sleepless experience when I saw your listening room.


 
   
  Thanks Silent One.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Typical Head-Fi...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A strong selling point with me at the time, since I had little money and DACs were flying out the window from manufacturers left and right. A Dime
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a dozen I tell ya.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Fririce0003

Any WA5 owners have some experience pairing with Zu Audio speakers care to share their thoughts, I just ordered on a pair of Soul Supreme speakers but they're a few weeks off and I couldn't audition them in store. Just crossing my fingers and hoping for some good synergy when they arrive for now.
Also I've been getting some loud sparodic popping coming from my left channel, this is my first tube amp so I'm not quite sure, but I think it would be the driver tubes. The popping stopped when I swapped back to the stock tubes.


----------



## joeribt

Fellow Head-fi'er 'kchew' has offered me very kindly to send me two valves to try in my WA6 which has been a bit problematic lately. How kind is that?!


----------



## GloryUprising

fririce0003 said:


> Any WA5 owners have some experience pairing with Zu Audio speakers care to share their thoughts, I just ordered on a pair of Soul Supreme speakers but they're a few weeks off and I couldn't audition them in store. Just crossing my fingers and hoping for some good synergy when they arrive for now.
> Also I've been getting some loud sparodic popping coming from my left channel, this is my first tube amp so I'm not quite sure, but I think it would be the driver tubes. The popping stopped when I swapped back to the stock tubes.




Sounds like a noisy tube. I'd stay away from the that one.


----------



## musicman59

Guys and ladies,
  I am reducing my rectifier and driver tube collection. Please check my posts at the accessories for sale forum.
   
  Thanks,


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





joeribt said:


> Fellow Head-fi'er 'kchew' has offered me very kindly to send me two valves to try in my WA6 which has been a bit problematic lately. How kind is that?!


 
   
  "Woozies" are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 a tight-knit group. Cheers to kchew!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





stevendjm said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> Recently I decide to buy a wa5le to go with my HD800.
> Now the question is whether or not I should spend another thousand to take the part upgrade. I will go for tubes upgrades for sure, as Jack pointed out that tubes can improve the sonic performance greatly. but he did not mention how parts upgrade can influence the sound in real hearing.
> ...


 
   
   
  i knew i like different amps, different headphones with different moods and music and that's why i chose not to do the upgrade parts last year when i got my wa5.  the saved money, i picked up a gsx-mkii


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> LCD-3 and DNA 2A3/WA5-LE won't happen. not enough money and i'd be stuck with stock tubes. also my DLIII might prove to be not enough with these amps (will it be good for WA22?)
> 
> the WA22 all i would need to do is buy 6SN7's since i already have a good selection of 5U4G (black mullard GZ34, mighty 596, miss sophia, and the eml) and some 6080 (RCA 6AS7, TS 5998 and Sylvania 7236).
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  dubstep girl, are you sure you're really set on t1?  and want to build your headphones rig around t1? 
   
  i build(ing) around my headphones rigs around t1 and on most days i just love the way wa5 sound with t1.  well some days my balanced rudistor rp010b(a ss amp with a touch of tube sound).  more like, 7 of 10 i'd pick the wa5.  the lushness, the tubey romantic sound.  just make the t1 perfect(i sometimes want more bass though).  300b has a special way of presenting vocal and that's probably why t1 sound so prefect with t1. 
   
  and for the stock tubes, people just blown out of proportion.  i sure can't live with the stock tubes now but i remember a stock wa5 was the best amp i've heard at the time.  you don't really need to change all the tubes right away.  and i remember playing wa2, wa22 and wa5, all stock tubes, last year at the local dealer and wa5 was still the best amp i'd heard at the time. 
   
  also, t1 is more amp dependent than other headphones.  maybe it's the 600ohm or what ever.  get the amp first and worry about the source, the tubes and everything else later. 
   
  p.s.:  wa2 ain't bad though with t1 so no hurry/necessary to get other amp unless you feel you need to.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

not just the T1, also the HD 800. i really like my HD 800s, in fact, i feel the HD 800s are better than the T1 in many ways, but the T1 is a better all rounder. i find myself using both quite a bit.


----------



## grokit

Big props to the WEE, check the adjustment to my sig...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> not just the T1, also the HD 800. i really like my HD 800s, in fact, i feel the HD 800s are better than the T1 in many ways, but the T1 is a better all rounder. i find myself using both quite a bit.




If you like the HD800, there is no amp better than the WA5. At least for all the amps I listened HD800 with.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Big props to the WEE, check the adjustment to my sig...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If you like the HD800, there is no amp better than the WA5. At least for all the amps I listened HD800 with.


 
   




   
  i would still feel silly using stock tubes, a DLIII with v link, and not having a proper table/rack for a 70lb amp. if i had the funds for an endgame setup, it'd be a no brainer. WA5 maxed with double mighty 596's, and a PWD or M51


----------



## DutchGFX

Any1 got an tube recomendations for the WA6? I just ordered one at the meet, sounded a bit more natural then my Lyr, so im really hoping my impressions are correct, so while i wait, what tubes should I try


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If you like the HD800, there is no amp better than the WA5. At least for all the amps I listened HD800 with.


 
   
   
  i like my new toy, gsxmkii, a lot with hd800.  new toy maybe?


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> i like my new toy, gsxmkii, a lot with hd800.  new toy maybe?




Gsxmkii, have not have a chance to audition it, would love to compare it to my beta22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Big props to the WEE, check the adjustment to my sig...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  But...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_ you're so close. _If I'm not mistaken, you already have the HD800 inside the room. And shedding your current gears (_everything_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_must go!_) could put you that much closer to your endgame setup. I'd focus on getting the Woo because many amp designs, especially tube designs, won't change too often but DACs will. Soon as you buy one and plug that sucka in, someone on Head-Fi will be sharing a link about the next hot DAC coming down the line. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Then when funds permit, get a really good-to-great source!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If you like the HD800, there is no amp better than the WA5. At least for all the amps I listened HD800 with.


 
  Totally agree. My T1 and HD800 both with Zeus cable sound amazing with my upgraded WA5-LE.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Curiously, have you listened to your Woo with the M1? I'd like to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 learn more...


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Totally agree. My T1 and HD800 both with Zeus cable sound amazing with my upgraded WA5-LE.




I use the Q and Silver Dragon, they both sound really really good with slight preference with Silver Dragon.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> :confused_face:
> 
> i would still feel silly using stock tubes, a DLIII with v link, and not having a proper table/rack for a 70lb amp. if i had the funds for an endgame setup, it'd be a no brainer. WA5 maxed with double mighty 596's, and a PWD or M51




Never tried M51, but it sing with PWD MKII. I would save the money from the upgrade parts for the EML 300B and TS BGRP.

If I did not spent all my toy budget this year, I will ordered one already. Any one want a SWA built beta22??? Maybe even a maxxed WA22???


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Any1 got an tube recomendations for the WA6? I just ordered one at the meet, sounded a bit more natural then my Lyr, so im really hoping my impressions are correct, so while i wait, what tubes should I try


 
   
  WA6 combinations are many.  My favorite setup was the 6DE7 with a metal base GZ34 rectifier.  Once I got the HD 800 I went with more power on the drivers-- 6SN7 with adapters.  
   
  If that's too rich for your blood (a metal GZ34 can cost up to $300) go with the Sophia Princess as a starting point.  
   
  Of course there's always the 596, if you can find one-- I'm still looking for a matched pair.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wa22!


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wa22!


 
   
  Did you buy?


----------



## DutchGFX

reeltime said:


> WA6 combinations are many.  My favorite setup was the 6DE7 with a metal base GZ34 rectifier.  Once I got the HD 800 I went with more power on the drivers-- 6SN7 with adapters.
> 
> If that's too rich for your blood (a metal GZ34 can cost up to $300) go with the Sophia Princess as a starting point.
> 
> Of course there's always the 596, if you can find one-- I'm still looking for a matched pair.




Holy crap these tubes are ridiculously expensive! Got anything cheaper?

And which 6DE7's would u recomend?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Curiously, have you listened to your Woo with the M1? I'd like to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  But of course, the M1 feeds my WA5-LE out of its RCA output in my bedroom system. I am splitting the XLR output to send signal to my Stax SRM-727 MkII and my Threshold T2 Preamp.
  IMO it is as good as it gets. All what I have described in the Bircasti thread applies to the sound with the Woo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> But of course, the M1 feeds my WA5-LE out of its RCA output in my bedroom system. I am splitting the XLR output to send signal to my Stax SRM-727 MkII and my Threshold T2 Preamp.
> IMO it is as good as it gets. All what I have described in the Bircasti thread applies to the sound with the Woo.


 
   
  You have a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bricasti thread?!


----------



## musicman59

There are two of them. Here they are:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/636975/berkeley-alpha-dac-mk-ii-opinions-please-now-the-bricasti-m1-experience
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/605764/bricasti-m1-dac#post_9311748


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Holy crap these tubes are ridiculously expensive! Got anything cheaper?
> 
> And which 6DE7's would u recomend?


 
   
  You'll get a decent stock pair of 6DE7s with the amp-- mine were RCAs (sold them with the amp).  It took a lot of tube swapping before I found the 6SN7 to be an upgrade over the 6DE7  I have a pair of 6SN7s with adapters I'd part with for $100 (low hours). I also have a pair of 6GT7s with adapters that I couldn't stand that have an hour or two on them for $100.  I'll let you try before you buy-- they're just sitting in a drawer doing nothing.
   
  As for rectifiers-- any NOS Mullard GZ34 from the 50s sounds good.  You can find one for around $100.  I had a '57 standard base.  I also liked the GZ32 (Telefunken)-- those are cheaper still-- and I may have one laying around here somewhere.


----------



## DutchGFX

reeltime said:


> You'll get a decent stock pair of 6DE7s with the amp-- mine were RCAs (sold them with the amp).  It took a lot of tube swapping before I found the 6SN7 to be an upgrade over the 6DE7  I have a pair of 6SN7s with adapters I'd part with for $100 (low hours). I also have a pair of 6GT7s with adapters that I couldn't stand that have an hour or two on them for $100.  I'll let you try before you buy-- they're just sitting in a drawer doing nothing.
> 
> As for rectifiers-- any NOS Mullard GZ34 from the 50s sounds good.  You can find one for around $100.  I had a '57 standard base.  I also liked the GZ32 (Telefunken)-- those are cheaper still-- and I may have one laying around here somewhere.




If you have some that I can try, driver/power or rectifiers, PM me  I would really appreciate that


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Did you buy?


 
   
  nope, tempting tho


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> WA6 combinations are many.  My favorite setup was the 6DE7 with a metal base GZ34 rectifier.  Once I got the HD 800 I went with more power on the drivers-- 6SN7 with adapters.
> 
> If that's too rich for your blood (a metal GZ34 can cost up to $300) go with the Sophia Princess as a starting point.
> 
> Of course there's always the 596, if you can find one-- I'm still looking for a matched pair.


 
   
  For WA6, you can skip the 6SN7 and get a pair of 6FD7.  Mullard metal based GZ34 with Sylvania 6FD7 is my go to tubes for HD800.


----------



## teknikk7

I'm really enjoying my WA6 and HD650. I'm not looking at upgrading headphones for a little while but feel like a driver upgrade might be in order. I already have the Sophia, it's running with the stock 6DE7. I tried the 6CY7, hated them.
   
  I am eying the upgrade options on the woo website. 6GL7/6EM7 or the 6SN7? What would pair goo with the Sophia and the HD650? 
   
  Thx


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> I'm really enjoying my WA6 and HD650. I'm not looking at upgrading headphones for a little while but feel like a driver upgrade might be in order. I already have the Sophia, it's running with the stock 6DE7. I tried the 6CY7, hated them.
> 
> I am eying the upgrade options on the woo website. 6GL7/6EM7 or the 6SN7? What would pair goo with the Sophia and the HD650?
> 
> Thx


 
   
   
  HD650, WA6, Princess and 6SN7s.

 Truly a dream, a heavenly concoction.

 I tried the 6GL7s but I found them to be too harsh and a little grainy. I managed to sell them at slightly more than my buy price so I'm not complaining.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i only like 6GL7 with mullard gz34 and 596, the 6GL7 can sound quite bad with the tube combination though.


----------



## bbophead

If anyone wants 596, talk to Jack Wu, like I did.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





bbophead said:


> If anyone wants 596, talk to Jack Wu, like I did.


 
   
  In case anyone is wondering, last I spoke with Jack he charged $150 for a 5AR4 to 596 adapter + 596 tube.
   
  And he did replace the tube when I found the one I got was not good.


----------



## DutchGFX

So like, for my Lyr, i just bought tubes off ebay, hoping they would sound good, and they did. For this, it seams driver tube rolling isnt too popular, and Rectifier tubes are expensive and need be purchased from a reputable source, sound right? So i cant just order 4ar5 rectifier tubes on ebay and have them sound nice?

Also, jack is very young! I expected him to be more elderly i guess, not old, just older.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> I'm really enjoying my WA6 and HD650. I'm not looking at upgrading headphones for a little while but feel like a driver upgrade might be in order. I already have the Sophia, it's running with the stock 6DE7. I tried the 6CY7, hated them.
> 
> I am eying the upgrade options on the woo website. 6GL7/6EM7 or the 6SN7? What would pair goo with the Sophia and the HD650?
> 
> Thx


 
   
  i'd avoid the 6GL7.  I bought both upgrades-- because I'm a Big Dumb Guy.  It's a harsh tube, to my ear.
   
  I have both the 6SN7 and the 6GL7 with adapters for your WA6.  I no longer have the amp-- I'd sell them to you for $100/pr if you're interested.  You can try them out first, if you want.


----------



## tropicana

I am looking to upgrade the Shuguang 274b which came stock with my WA6SE.
  I will be using it with 6EW7.
   
   
  Sonic charateristics that I am looking for:
  1) Rolled off treble
  2) Impactful bass
  3) Diffused and holographic soundstage
  4) Warm and lush
   
   
  Currently considering:
  1) Brimar 5R4GY
  2) Philips 5R4GY
  3) PSVANE 274b (Hifi series)
  4) Shuguang WE274b
   
   
  Would appreciate any thoughts/ comments on the tubes considered and if they match the sound I am trying to achieve.  Thanks.


----------



## teknikk7

What could I expect coming from a sophia to a 596? Using HD650...
   
  Thx


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> What could I expect coming from a sophia to a 596? Using HD650...
> 
> Thx


 
   
  many improvements


----------



## migasson

Unfortunately a change in direction in my life has forced me to sell my WA22.. Boo! I'll put a classified up soon.. When I do it will be fir Australian buyers only to start. I'm giving followers of this thread a quick heads up first so it's exclusive for you lot till I put up the ad. PM me


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> many improvements


 
  hmm....?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> hmm....?


 
   
  itll tighten up the sound with the hd 650s and make everything a little more defined and less congested.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





migasson said:


> Unfortunately a change in direction in my life has forced me to sell my WA22.. Boo! I'll put a classified up soon.. When I do it will be fir Australian buyers only to start. I'm giving followers of this thread a quick heads up first so it's exclusive for you lot till I put up the ad. PM me


 
  So sorry to hear!!! Hopefully you can keep the LCD-2 and power it with something more modest for the duration. I'll mention again that I am spending a lot of time with the T90 + WA7 combination though I have an HD800 and several other amps. It just sounds right to my ears.


----------



## migasson

Thanks atomicbob nope, LCD-2's are staying my hands...! If I have to really slum it ill buy a Schiit Lyr, but if I can stretch it, a Mjolnir or a Soloist.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





migasson said:


> Unfortunately a change in direction in my life has forced me to sell my WA22.. Boo! I'll put a classified up soon.. When I do it will be fir Australian buyers only to start. I'm giving followers of this thread a quick heads up first so it's exclusive for you lot till I put up the ad. PM me


 
   
  Life happens. Your ability to adapt will take you far. Meanwhile, if you're looking to buy time... no, really,_ if you're looking to buy "Time,"_ then look to buy a _vintage_ stereo receiver or power amp. The right find - low cost, high quality and you'll be moved and tickled. As would, the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 inside the LCD-2.


----------



## migasson

Thanks Silent One.. I will look into that.

However, the WA22 is now on sale


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Life happens. Your ability to adapt will take you far. Meanwhile, if you're looking to buy time... no, really,_ if you're looking to buy "Time,"_ then look to buy a _vintage_ stereo receiver or power amp. The right find - low cost, high quality and you'll be moved and tickled. As would, the drivers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a friend who bought a vintage stereo and it needs to be reconditioned. He doesn't how much more it will cost. What has your experience been with the cost of reconditioning your vintage stereo(s)?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm in the middle of my first attempted restoration (Stereo Doctor - San Ramon). The "http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/7080#post_9380312" would yield more experiences.
   
  I dropped by Monday night and the tech had only visually inspected the internals and gave it a listen(Sansui G-22000); amp sounds fine. His next step is to DeoxIT, clean the exterior and once cleaned inside/out, he'll take measurements and stuff. No caps are leaking and all looks well. But I'm open to replacing caps and stuff if any parts are performing at a lower level. Will keep this one for life!
   
  The store's backlog could suggest another week before I learn anything new. I'm lucky in that all three vintage amps sound fine when bought. In my case, it's simply a matter of how long they'll last, given they're 1977-1979-1980 vintage iron.
   
  OH, sorry. to answer your question, I haven't any idea what restoring the internal caps & things will run. But, the money previous allocated to the WA5 will fund this restoration, so I should be fine.


----------



## GrindingThud

Rolled some RCA 6BS8 into the WA3 today. They were cheep, so I had to try. Bland lifeless tube....not what I was anticipating. 
Also tried some Westinghouse 6BK7B....they had unbearable hum. Have some Allied Japan 6BK7 inbound. I seem to be rolling the wrong way...


----------



## Clayton SF

Look! > WE 422A (5U4GB) Audio Rectifier!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> Look! > WE 422A (5U4GB) Audio Rectifier!




Is it good?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Is it good?


 
  Well I just know that Western Electric has an incredibly stellar reputation. I personally have never owned nor have I listened to an amp with this rectifier.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Look! > WE 422A (5U4GB) Audio Rectifier!


 

 $54.50   USPS Express Mail International


----------



## GloryUprising

Silent, how do you like those 6sn7 with wa6se?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Silent, how do you like those 6sn7 with wa6se?


 
   
  I found joy. Much more refinement among a wide variety of tubes in the 6SN7 ocean. 
   
  Formerly:  2010_ WooAudio Black WA 6 Special Edition_
  Rectifier:  United Electronics 1957 USAF-596
  Driver: Pair - Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates Oval Mica 1942-44 VT-231


----------



## magiccabbage

Im gonna stick pics up of my wa2 later. Hope im not interrupting anyone elses chat by just barging them in here.


----------



## grokit

No worries *magiccabbage*, _post away_!


----------



## Silent One

TGIF ~
   
  Just received a few pieces of candy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from WooAudio! - Pair of USAF-596s; matching adapters. Except 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... I completely forgot to specify I wanted them ALL black (the base). Will hit Jack up on Twitter later this afternoon. If no solution there, will sell 'em here and quick! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not like I have amps lying about to use any of this stuff.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> TGIF ~  Just received a few pieces of candy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Don't you already have Glenn's adapters? Glenn's are black.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Don't you already have Glenn's adapters? Glenn's are black.


 
   
  Yes. But, I ordered a new pair from Jack, along with some new Glass. I want my forthcoming WA5 blacked out!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes. But, I ordered a new pair from Jack, along with some new Glass. I want my forthcoming WA5 blacked out!


 
  What is Jack charging for a pair of 596 adapters and pair of 596s? (Or the cost of singles?)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes. But, I ordered a new pair from Jack, along with some new Glass. I want my forthcoming WA5 blacked out!


 
   
  you're getting WA5?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Via USPS - $332...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I may. 3 weeks ago, I told the tale here how I was in talks with Jack to order one to my specs. Our exchanges went on for a few days. And just before his final reply, I tripped over an extremely rare vintage Sansui G-22000. But, I had to use the Woo money to get it.
   
  Now saving up anew... wish me luck!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I may. 3 weeks ago, I told the tale here how I was in talks with Jack to order one to my specs. Our exchanges went on for a few days. And just before his final reply, I tripped over an extremely rare vintage Sansui G-22000. But, I had to use the Woo money to get it.
> 
> Now saving up anew... wish me luck!


 
   
   
  I guess someone just hit the lottery?
   
  G22000 few weeks back and now WA5?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> TGIF ~
> 
> Just received a few pieces of candy
> 
> ...


 
  Pics woold be very helpful


----------



## GrindingThud

Anyone ever mod a WA3 or WA2 for 6SN7? I'm curious if it was used in the circuit as is or if Woo changed up the operating point.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I may. 3 weeks ago, I told the tale here how I was in talks with Jack to order one to my specs. Our exchanges went on for a few days. And just before his final reply, I tripped over an extremely rare vintage Sansui G-22000. But, I had to use the Woo money to get it.
> 
> Now saving up anew... wish me luck!


 

 Focus. You must focus... 
  That's cool. A rare vintage amp, a new home, and a WA5 in the future. You done well. Very well. Congrats!


----------



## magiccabbage




----------



## magiccabbage

here are some more, god it has taking me 6 months to get off my ass and take these. i plan on darking the room out completely tomorrow for ultimate glow but for now these will do


----------



## magiccabbage




----------



## magiccabbage




----------



## GalaxyGuy

Well, if we are posting amplifier porn, here are a few of my WA22.


----------



## magiccabbage

those are sweet!


----------



## magiccabbage

more amp porn please!


----------



## Clayton SF

Very nice. Very very nice. I love how the silver Woos refract the glow of the tubes.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> those are sweet!


 
  Thanks! Yours are not so bad either!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


>


 
   
  wow...


----------



## DutchGFX

I gots my WA6 and well, it's good, not great. The sound is good, has dynamics, and has some soundstage. The soundstage isn't really as good as my Lyr, and also, the gain is an issue. I have to turn the volume all the way up to get my normal listening level.

Will the soundstage open up with a new rectifier? Or burn in? And will the instrument separation become better?

Also, any way to increase gain? Not the impedence switch, ik that haha. Like, do different drivers/power have different gain?


Also, how do u get such good pics of the tubes?!? Do you photoshop some effects like contrast and saturation? I really wanna take some pics like thatlol they look so damn good?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well, the sophia should open the sound up alot compared to the stock rectifier which sucks. some drivers have more gain (6GL7, 6DR7, 6FD7, 6CY7 all have more gain), not sure which one would be best though.
   
  the WA6 simply lacks power for your hifiman. the WA6-SE would of been much better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for me with my HE-500, with 6GL7, its extremely loud at a little under 10 o clock. deafening/clipping loud at noon-1ish


----------



## DutchGFX

Haha iik but, I dont have the $$$ I'm just a HS student  I don't feel they lack the slam or dynamics, just simply the volume. Do u happen to know which has the most gain? And doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Haha thanks for all ur help


----------



## GalaxyGuy

The WA6SE has power to spare for most headphones and I agree with Dubstep Girl, it would work well with your HE-400's.  The WA7 would also be nice with the HE-400's I think.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Haha iik but, I dont have the $$$ I'm just a HS student
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Check this link:
   
  http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> The WA6SE has power to spare for most headphones and I agree with Dubstep Girl, it would work well with your HE-400's.  The WA7 would also be nice with the HE-400's I think.


 
   
  hes using the HE5-LE which is worse, much more power demanding than HE-400 or HE-500. hifiman recommends at least 2W for HE5-LE.
   
   
   


dutchgfx said:


> Haha iik but, I dont have the $$$ I'm just a HS student
> 
> 
> 
> ...


   
  im an unemployed 2yr college graduate in debt, i'm pretty poor too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  check out the 6DR7 or 6CY7 (the 6DR7 seems to be better than 6CY7), 6FD7 has slightly less gain, 6GL7 seems to have about the same as 6DR7/6CY7 but is more expensive cause of adapters.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hes using the HE5-LE which is worse, much more power demanding than HE-400 or HE-500. hifiman recommends at least 2W for HE5-LE.


 
  Oh.  I was going off his signature.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well... you are in good company. I try not to complain - I have been on sabbatical the last few years without income. But even on days when I feel pretty poor, I still realize I have more than others who are worse off. I am, however, looking forward to returning to work Autumn 2013.
   
  If it encourages anyone, especially DutchGFX, I was unemployed when I saved up for my first Woo. I did this (and continue to do so) by being patient and selling personal possessions. This can take 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a while. But since 2009, I periodically assess stuff I bought and enjoyed in times past, when I was gainfully employed. AND bought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




stuff several moons back. My first head-fi rig based on the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ - I often spell out the model name 'cause I miss my first tube amp dearly - was done completely by selling stuff both locally and on eBay. No income... at... all. May this serve as inspiration to some of you.
   
  Eventually... _you all can get there._
   
_What's more,  _fellow members will always step in and help others get on their way. This is encouraging for the hobby and I'd like to see more of this. I gave away two USAF-596 rectifiers last year, to help a couple of outstanding members on their way. It felt great! Though privately, a few concerned members asked what was in the tea
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was drinking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Haha iik but, I dont have the $$$ I'm just a HS student
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Greetings ~
   
  Your post highlights the reason why I tried to step in and bridge the gap for you on a Pre-Owned WA6SE. You had previously shared your status as a minor and limited funds. I also tried to make a case to your parents (through you) on your behalf. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I originally saved up for a WA6 but quickly realized near immediate needs sitting on the horizon; waited an additional 3-4 months and addressed my needs properly. Current needs and the ones that would have been forcing their way into my home shortly after the purchase of a WA6.


----------



## Silent One

Great pix magiccabbage; GalaxyGuy!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I guess someone just hit the lottery?
> 
> G22000 few weeks back and now WA5?


 
   
  Yeah, right! Looking back, I began saving up for the WA5 the moment I took delivery of my Woo on 9 July, 2010. And reached my goal on 31 March, 2013. If it took me any longer, the WA5 would be "Discontinued" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on the website!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Focus. You must focus...
> That's cool. A rare vintage amp, a new home, and a WA5 in the future. You done well. Very well. Congrats!


 
   
  I appreciate your sentiment, knowing that you understand discipline 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




well. Thanks, kindly. A new 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 home? I wish! I'm merely going back home and starting over. Now... _where were we? _Ah yes, we were hard working and taking in a wide variety of Live music all over SoCal on the weekends. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then there was audio gears...
   
  This weekend, I'll be making new projections to see if I can speed things up and bring the WA5 home late autumn, in time for some dairy farm fresh premium Egg nog.


----------



## magiccabbage

Thanks Silent One  Clayton SF GalaxyGuy  Dubstep Girl for the comments on the pics.
   
  Thanks again to DubstepGirl for all the advice on the tubes especially the RFT EZ80's. I hadnt even heard of those until you informed me. thanks for saving me the cash - i owe you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 big time!!!
   
   
DutchGFX[size=medium]  i took the pics at night on a tripod with all the lights turned off. i left the shutters on the camera open for 10 - 15 seconds so the light could soak in but the room wasnt dark enough because the camera picked up the glow from the street lights behind the blinds as well, thats why the backround looks orangy and photo-shopped. there are no effects or anything on the camera just the raw image.  [/size]


----------



## DutchGFX

I thought you couldn't get that WA6SE. If you were able, I'll gladly make a deal there, and sell this on the FS forums.


----------



## DutchGFX

And it doesn't feel like itsl acking power, it has excellent dynamics, its only the volume thats the issue, if I have a quiet song, it doesn't get loud enough. So yeah, if you can still get me that WA6SE, that'd be awesome!


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> Thanks Silent One
> Clayton SF
> GalaxyGuy
> Dubstep Girl
> ...




Use a ND filter, I took some of WA22 glows in midday.


----------



## magiccabbage

Thanks jc9394 will do.
   
  do have the hd800 fully balanced??


----------



## magiccabbage

if so what does it sound like with the wa22??


----------



## magiccabbage

sorry bout the double question marks i got a bit excited


----------



## jc9394

Yes and heavenly, as long as you got the right tubes combo. I personally prefer GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP, and Mullard metal based GZ34.


----------



## magiccabbage

i have to wa2 just. i was gonna go for the wa22 but just before i bought it i realised that i would have to pay 33% on top of the original price for import to ireland and then another 4% on duty. now i am upgrading the tubes in my wa2 and the guy from vacuumtubes.net has suggested that he write a lower price on the invoice to avoid the tax. if only i had thought to ask jack that i would probably have the wa22.


----------



## magiccabbage

talk about getting stung!!


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> i have to wa2 just. i was gonna go for the wa22 but just before i bought it i realised that i would have to pay 33% on top of the original price for import to ireland and then another 4% on duty. now i am upgrading the tubes in my wa2 and the guy from vacuumtubes.net has suggested that he write a lower price on the invoice to avoid the tax. if only i had thought to ask jack that i would probably have the wa22.




He will do that but the buyer has to be responsible for package lost, he will provide tracking. That is why my friend's WA5 shipped to me and I will bring up to him.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He will do that but the buyer has to be responsible for package lost, he will provide tracking. That is why my friend's WA5 shipped to me and I will bring up to him.


 
   
   
  y'all must be real tight.  wa5 is massive!


----------



## magiccabbage

yea its like thirty something kilos!


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> y'all must be real tight.  wa5 is massive!




Yup, 10 hours ride up north.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yes and heavenly, as long as you got the right tubes combo. I personally prefer GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP, and Mullard metal based GZ34.


 
  the best tubes!!!  though together they can cost as much as a used WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   



silent one said:


> This weekend, I'll be making new projections to see if I can speed things up and bring the WA5 home late autumn, in time for some dairy farm fresh premium Egg nog.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > This weekend, I'll be making new projections to see if I can speed things up and bring the WA5 home late autumn, in time for some dairy farm fresh premium Egg nog.


 
   
  And if I come up short? I'll crumble the cookies on my computer for Head-Fi.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> I thought you couldn't get that WA6SE. If you were able, I'll gladly make a deal there, and sell this on the FS forums.


 
   
  Perhaps, this post was aimed my way? Sent you a PM just in case.


----------



## Clayton SF

Sadly, I have run out of surface-area real estate to house more amps... otherwise.


----------



## Silent One

You could approach _The City _about an Art Exhibit. The San Francisco Public Library (Main branch) comes to mind for a 30-day run.


----------



## magiccabbage

Clayton man you have some serious rig there! what turn table is that? i seriously need to get a good one myself.


----------



## magiccabbage

Has anyone here used the wa2 as preamp with another solid state headphone amp?  i have used it with speakers just wondering what it would be like the other way?


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Sadly, I have run out of surface-area real estate to house more amps... otherwise.




I have space in my office for rental.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394  how old is your marantz? it is beautiful! can they still be got??


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have space in my office for rental.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> jc9394
> how old is your marantz? it is beautiful! can they still be got??




I did not record the date but it is from the 70s, it is available, check fleabay or CL. I prefer CL, usually less and you can check it before paying. It is an awesome receiver for HD800, it beat the crap out of a lot dedicated head amp.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Has anyone here used the wa2 as preamp with another solid state headphone amp?  i have used it with speakers just wondering what it would be like the other way?


 
   
  I mostly use the WA2 as a pre amp for the Crack or the ss V200 from Violectric. Wonderful pre amp and also a great amp with beyers!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I did not record the date but it is from the 70s, it is available, check fleabay or CL. I prefer CL, usually less and you can check it before paying. It is an awesome receiver for HD800, it beat the crap out of a lot dedicated head amp.


 
   
  And the vintage iron also brings with it _versatility. _


----------



## magiccabbage

I mostly use the WA2 as a pre amp for the Crack or the ss V200 from Violectric. Wonderful pre amp and also a great amp with beyers!
   
thats great to hear. the bottle head crack? what is it like with that? i have a friend who does a lot of DIY tube amps, they are for guitars which is probably a different beast but i would love to give tube audio a go. am an amateur myself with DIY but i will be getting my first lesson on thursday - cant wait!!


----------



## magiccabbage

sorry that last message was for Ultrainferno


----------



## GrindingThud

Even the nice Allied 6BK7B hum badly in the WA3.... I'd write this tube type off for good in a Woo. 
I do kind of like the clear top 6GU7 though....very quiet tube and I like the lower gain in my setup. It biases up at 2.5ma in the gain stage and 3.6ma in the buffer. A little nonlinear, but still good sounding to me. I'm going to try the 6CG7 and maybe up the bias some in the gain stage. Adapters for 6SN7 seems like the next logical evolution for me. 



grindingthud said:


> Rolled some RCA 6BS8 into the WA3 today. They were cheep, so I had to try. Bland lifeless tube....not what I was anticipating.
> Also tried some Westinghouse 6BK7B....they had unbearable hum. Have some Allied Japan 6BK7 inbound. I seem to be rolling the wrong way...


----------



## Dillan

Don't think i've posted here yet. Received a WA2 a little while ago, mostly to pair with my HD 800's. The sound is absolutely wonderful. Doing a little tube rolling and noticed huge differences with every new tube I ordered. Honestly the stock tubes (non upgraded) sound really nice in my opinion. Right now i'm trying some NOS Matched Tung Sol 7236's. So far so good, sound a little less warm than the other ones ive tried. Probably end up going for the 5998's but I cant find them for a reasonable price anywhere. (Below $300). Anyway.. Overall great amp, hope to purchase another from this great company sometime down the road.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dillan said:


> Don't think i've posted here yet. Received a WA2 a little while ago, mostly to pair with my HD 800's. The sound is absolutely wonderful. Doing a little tube rolling and noticed huge differences with every new tube I ordered. Honestly the stock tubes (non upgraded) sound really nice in my opinion. Right now i'm trying some NOS Matched Tung Sol 7236's. So far so good, sound a little less warm than the other ones ive tried. Probably end up going for the 5998's but I cant find them for a reasonable price anywhere. (Below $300). Anyway.. Overall great amp, hope to purchase another from this great company sometime down the road.


 
http://www.vacuumtubes.net/prices.htm
   
  should be about 220 dollars on that site. PM them they are nice people


----------



## Dillan

Thanks that would be great!


----------



## magiccabbage

no bother


----------



## grokit

They have them listed @ $85 each, don't know about matched pairs though.


----------



## vincentc

Hello everybody,
   
  I just received my WA6-SE and I have been trying to find a United Electronics (USAF) 596 Rectifier Tube. However, with no success. Do you know where I could find one? Preferably new or nearly new 
   
   
 [size=medium]  [/size]


----------



## GalaxyGuy

I recently bought one from Jack Woo directly, but he may be out now.  Have you asked him?


----------



## vincentc

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> I recently bought one from Jack Woo directly, but he may be out now.  Have you asked him?


 
  How can I contact him directly?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

contact on woo audio site


----------



## Dillan

Anyone have any recommendations on a very warm pair of tubes for the WA2? I'm a big fan of warm, lush sound. Has anyone had any luck with a particular pair of tubes in that department with the WA2?


----------



## vincentc

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> contact on woo audio site


 
  Thank you! I'll send him an email right now


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vincentc said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Heya,
   
  I received a pair of USAF-59 recs last week from WooAudio; believe Jack said he may have only a couple left. Better get on it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
Very best,


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dillan said:


> Anyone have any recommendations on a very warm pair of tubes for the WA2? I'm a big fan of warm, lush sound. Has anyone had any luck with a particular pair of tubes in that department with the WA2?


 
   
  yeah Mullard EZ80, RCA 6AS7G (Tung Sol 5998 are more transparent, but less warm), and Mullard CV2492  drivers (might be a cheaper option for these available)
   
  i believe Ardilla still owns a WA2, he enjoys a warm, smooth, lush presentation, maybe you can pm him about his favorite combination


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah Mullard EZ80, RCA 6AS7G (Tung Sol 5998 are more transparent, but less warm), and Mullard CV2492  drivers (might be a cheaper option for these available)
> 
> i believe Ardilla still owns a WA2, he enjoys a warm, smooth, lush presentation, maybe you can pm him about his favorite combination


 
  Do the mullard EZ80s have to be paired with the mullard CV2492?


----------



## Dillan

Your the best dubstepgirl. I'll check on those tubes and maybe send that pm when I get home.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Do the mullard EZ80s have to be paired with the mullard CV2492?


 
   
  no you can use other EZ 80s, just the mullard tends to be smoother and lusher (some might find it bland), but its one of the most popular ones. some EZ80s can be a little more edgy like EZ81.


----------



## Dillan

Just finished purchasing a nos matched pair of 1958 rca 6as7g's. Hope it gives me that warm lush sound I am after.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dillan said:


> Just finished purchasing a nos matched pair of 1958 rca 6as7g's. Hope it gives me that warm lush sound I am after.


 
  NICE


----------



## Dubstep Girl

they are nice tubes, probably one of the best budget tubes out there, warm and tubey sounding, very forgiving of poor recordings.
   
  i bought my pair of RCA 6AS7G for 10$ shipped a while ago.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> they are nice tubes, probably one of the best budget tubes out there, warm and tubey sounding, very forgiving of poor recordings.
> 
> i bought my pair of RCA 6AS7G for 10$ shipped a while ago.


 
  ebay?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ya


----------



## Dillan

$10 wow, that was def. better than what I payed. I couldn't find them for less than 50 dollars. (in my whole 5 minutes of looking)


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dillan said:


> $10 wow, that was def. better than what I payed. I couldn't find them for less than 50 dollars. (in my whole 5 minutes of looking)


 
  yea she knows her stuff!


----------



## Dillan

I probably should have put more time in and perhaps found a better deal, but I was too excited. They were a beautiful black plate matched pair. If they sound better and even warmer than the stock pair of 6080's, it will be worth that for sure. After a little more listening to these Tung Sol 7236's - I honestly can't say that I am a big fan of the sound. It just kind of sounds thin, hoping to find the holy grail with these coming in and perhaps some rectifiers after.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes, the 7236 can be lean sounding. the 5998 is fuller sounding, but still closer to neutral. the RCA 6AS7G is much fuller sounding


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes, the 7236 can be lean sounding. the 5998 is fuller sounding, but still closer to neutral. the RCA 6AS7G is much fuller sounding


 
  I agree with this. That's why I preferred the 7236 on the WA22, but not on the WA2.


----------



## john57

The time I tried the 7236 they were very lean sounding for me.


----------



## Dillan

Yea, being someone that loves a warm, lush, full sound from a tube amp.. I was not a fan of those. They weren't cheap either.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes, the 7236 can be lean sounding. the 5998 is fuller sounding, but still closer to neutral. the RCA 6AS7G is much fuller sounding


 
  do you still prefer the 5998s?


----------



## magiccabbage

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-VINTAGE-USED-RCA-6AS7G-TUBES-/271195974717?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f248a2c3d#ht_500wt_1414
   
   
  dont know wheter to go for these or not?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes. for a while i was enjoying the 7236 quite alot, but i prefer the 5998 by a good margin. haven't tried the GEC 6AS7G, but the 5998 is my reference tube, it just sounds so right with the WA2, rich tone, smooth, controlled, deep bass, transparent, fully extended, not too relaxed, not too edgy. 
   
  i keep the 7236 for 2 reasons. 1 - in case i ever decide to re-buy HD 650 or a HD 600, or 2- in case i decide to upgrade to WA22, in which case the 7236 seems to be a better tube for it. 
   
  other tubes i have are the RCA 6AS7G, GE 6AS7GA (stock woo), and RCA 6080. the last 2 are pretty bad.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-VINTAGE-USED-RCA-6AS7G-TUBES-/271195974717?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f248a2c3d#ht_500wt_1414
> 
> 
> dont know wheter to go for these or not?


 
   
  no absolutely not, they don't look that good. the guy has 12 negative feedback, typed in all caps, not much information on tubes, just said tested good (non professional), and no returns/exchanges.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> no absolutely not, they don't look that good. the guy has 12 negative feedback, typed in all caps, not much information on tubes, just said tested good (non professional), and no returns/exchanges.


 
  i see the bad feedback there alright. thanks for the tip. phew!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes. for a while i was enjoying the 7236 quite alot, but i prefer the 5998 by a good margin. haven't tried the GEC 6AS7G, but the 5998 is my reference tube, it just sounds so right with the WA2, rich tone, smooth, controlled, deep bass, transparent, fully extended, not too relaxed, not too edgy.
> 
> i keep the 7236 for 2 reasons. 1 - in case i ever decide to re-buy HD 650 or a HD 600, or 2- in case i decide to upgrade to WA22, in which case the 7236 seems to be a better tube for it.
> 
> other tubes i have are the RCA 6AS7G, GE 6AS7GA (stock woo), and RCA 6080. the last 2 are pretty bad.


 
  So if you had hd650 again you would prefer 7236 over 5998 with them. ill be using hd 650 so maybe i should go for 7236 and leave the 5998s till i get the t1.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I agree with this. That's why I preferred the 7236 on the WA22, but not on the WA2.


 
   
  X2, much prefer the 7236 over 5998 with WA22
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes, the 7236 can be lean sounding. the 5998 is fuller sounding, but still closer to neutral. the *RCA 6AS7G is much fuller sounding*


 
   
  Just wait til you get a chance to try the GEC version.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> So if you had hd650 again you would prefer 7236 over 5998 with them. ill be using hd 650 so maybe i should go for 7236 and leave the 5998s till i get the t1.


 
  In my opinion both sound great with the HD650's.  However, you'll have a much easier time finding 7236's.  The Tung-Sol 5998's are becoming harder and harder to find, and you'll pay $200+ USD for a matched pair.
   
  With the HD600's and HD650's, I mostly switch between the Tung-Sol 7236's, Chatham 6AS7G's, and RCA 6AS7G's.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> In my opinion both sound great with the HD650's.  However, you'll have a much easier time finding 7236's.  The Tung-Sol 5998's are becoming harder and harder to find, and you'll pay $200+ USD for a matched pair.
> 
> With the HD600's and HD650's, I mostly switch between the Tung-Sol 7236's, Chatham 6AS7G's, and RCA 6AS7G's.


 
  the 5998s are actually on there way from vacuumtubes.net i was thinking of getting the 7236 as well if they are better and using them with hd650 and then change to the 5998s when i get the t1. 
   
  by the way is that maynard?


----------



## Thaddy

It is


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> It is


 
  nice 
   
  A friend of mine played bass for him on the puscifer album. I hear he is making wine these days.


----------



## Thaddy

Matt McJunkins?  That's pretty cool.  Maynard has been making wine for a while actually but it's really taken off over the past few years.  It's actually quite good...
   
  You'll enjoy the 5998's.  One of mine died not too long ago and I'm a bit nervous about purchasing a single tube, since my original pair was matched.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> In my opinion both sound great with the HD650's.  However, you'll have a much easier time finding 7236's.  The Tung-Sol 5998's are becoming harder and harder to find, and you'll pay $200+ USD for a matched pair.
> 
> With the HD600's and HD650's, I mostly switch between the Tung-Sol 7236's, Chatham 6AS7G's, and RCA 6AS7G's.


 
   
   
  TS 7236 is getting harder to find now.  It took me few months to get an NOS match pair.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Matt McJunkins?  That's pretty cool.  Maynard has been making wine for a while actually but it's really taken off over the past few years.  It's actually quite good...
> 
> You'll enjoy the 5998's.  One of mine died not too long ago and I'm a bit nervous about purchasing a single tube, since my original pair was matched.


 
  tanya o'callaghan she is an irish session player. she played on polar bear and toma. i suppose youll ave to go for a new pair so


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> TS 7236 is getting harder to find now.  It took me few months to get an NOS match pair.


 
  Bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I got my Sylvania and Tung Sol 7236's for dirt cheap a few years ago.  Too bad all of the good power tubes for the WA2 are getting harder and harder to find.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> the 5998s are actually on there way from vacuumtubes.net i was thinking of getting the 7236 as well if they are better and using them with hd650 and then change to the 5998s when i get the t1.


 
   
  unfortunately i didn't have both pairs of tubes at the time i had HD 650 and WA2, but i believe i found the hd 650s to be too slow for me with the WA2 (though it sounds very good). the 7236 which is faster sounding might be better for them, but then again, it may not. the 5998 is a fantastic tube.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Bummer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  All of the good power tubes are hard to get now these days, try to find a pair of GEC 6080 or 6ASF7G without paying an arm and a leg is impossible.


----------



## senson

I am glad I kept couple of tubes from WA6SE and WA2(5998,7236,596 and princess) now all I need to get is an actual Wa22.........anyone's selling WA22 in decent price?? lol


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globe A-frames for my WA2.
   
  wow, these are very nice! much cleaner and more transparent (the soundstage is really good, theres more layers to the music than the sylvania's too) than the JAN-Sylvania 7308, slightly less sub bass really good midbass punch/slam, just as extended and tighter (bass is way better overall)!
   
  Just what i was looking for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Better than the 6DJ8 Bugle Boy's i bought a few weeks ago (those where bright and awkwardly wide, might be better for speakers or dark headphones like hd 650s)
   
  i still prefer the Sylvania's on the sennheisers though, more bass and fuller sound.


----------



## GrindingThud

I'm glad you posted that. I've got a couple pair of orange a-frames that I'm liking very much. I was tempted to get a pair of bugles to go with them.... I think I'll hold off. Ordered a TungSol 7236 instead. 

I've got the 6CG7s in there now.....will post impressions probably later in the weekend if they stay in that long. Right now I like them enough to leave in.



dubstep girl said:


> just got Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globe A-frames for my WA2.
> 
> wow, these are very nice! much cleaner and more transparent (the soundstage is really good, theres more layers to the music than the sylvania's too) than the JAN-Sylvania 7308, slightly less sub bass really good midbass punch/slam, just as extended and tighter (bass is way better overall)!
> 
> ...


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globe A-frames for my WA2.
> 
> wow, these are very nice! much cleaner and more transparent (the soundstage is really good, theres more layers to the music than the sylvania's too) than the JAN-Sylvania 7308, slightly less sub bass really good midbass punch/slam, just as extended and tighter (bass is way better overall)!
> 
> ...


 
  I've got a pair of these on the way.  Which power tubes are you using?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I'm glad you posted that. I've got a couple pair of orange a-frames that I'm liking very much. I was tempted to get a pair of bugles to go with them.... I think I'll hold off. Ordered a TungSol 7236 instead.
> 
> I've hot the 6CG7s in there now.....will post impressions probably later in the weekend if they stay in that long. Right now I like them enough to leave in.


 
   
   
  sounds good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  the Bugle boy's aren't bad tubes at all btw (theyre popular for a reason right?). they're very clear sounding and have great sound detail and soundstage, it sounds good with HD 800s on very well recorded music and would probably be a top pick for classical, soft jazz, vocals, etc. but it did seem to be a little too bright/lean for me, and with the T1 they made them sound bright with weird distant mids and no bass. so just depends on your headphones.
   
  i just found the orange a frames to be more balanced. they have more punch and bass (its the audiophile bass too, you can definitely hear it,  but its very tight and controlled, this really caught my attention with this tube). everything is clear and open sounding, airy, but with slight warmth, i guess thats what they call the amperex sound. anyways, great synergy with my T1/WA2. i feel like they really opened up the sound with the T1's, just brought out that midrange really nicely while keeping the treble under control


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I've got a pair of these on the way.  Which power tubes are you using?


 
   
  tung sol 5998 power and RFT EZ 80 rectifier


----------



## Dillan

Has anyone actually ever used the WA2 as a preamp? If so what was the setup and results? Been wondering about that recently.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Do people have a preference of say EZ81 over EZ80 in the WA2, all else being the same like manufacturer?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dillan said:


> Has anyone actually ever used the WA2 as a preamp? If so what was the setup and results? Been wondering about that recently.


 
  i use it all the time as pre amp. the thing is my speakers arent all that good i have a pioneer dvr 640h surround sound system. the wa2 completley transforms the sound of the system. without the wa2 the bass seems to be pushed out to far and sounds muddy but with the preamp plugged in it tames the sound a lot and gives a heck of a lot more power. 
   
  i will be trying it on my friends system as soon as he gets it. he has a clear audio turntable and kef r500 speakers on the way and i think a rotel amp. they are not state of the art by any means but ill let you know how it goes with the wa2 - should be next weekend and should be sweet!!!


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> Do people have a preference of say EZ81 over EZ80 in the WA2, all else being the same like manufacturer?


 
  I highly prefer the RFT EZ81 over any EZ80 I've ever listened to.  I'll be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between the stock Ei EZ80's and a few other brands I tried.  The RFT EZ81's made a noticeable difference.  Pick up a pair or two from TubeMonger:  http://www.tubemonger.com/RFT_E_German_EZ81_6CA4_Rectifier_tubes_p/526.htm


----------



## RBNYC2

Hey, I was hoping someone here might be able to give me a good tip. I'm trying to find tubes for the WA6-SE that pair well with the LCD-2. I ordered the amp with the Sophia rectifier tube upgrade and the stock driver tubes (sylvania 6ew7). I'm finding that my HD600 sounds better than ever, but I'm not sure if this tube combination is the best for the LCD-2. What I'm hearing is a harsh treble mostly, especially when I turn the volume up. I'd like to find something that balances the sound a bit, less harsh in the highs, and perhaps more mid-bass/mid-range impact. Also, for some reason the HD600's bass has drastically improved with this setup but the bass on my LCD-2's is lacking and sounds much weaker than the HD600's. Typically the LCD-2's sound much bassier to my ears, so it's a bit confusing to me.
   
  I'm mainly looking for driver tubes but I'm open to trying different rectifier tubes also. I've been searching through all the threads and it's a bit overwhelming so it would be great to hear from someone directly. Thanks in advance.


----------



## senson

My Favorite tubes for LCD2 was 596+6DR7 when I had WA6SE. You get more slam and impact then Sophia+6EW7


----------



## Dillan

magiccabbage said:


> i use it all the time as pre amp. the thing is my speakers arent all that good i have a pioneer dvr 640h surround sound system. the wa2 completley transforms the sound of the system. without the wa2 the bass seems to be pushed out to far and sounds muddy but with the preamp plugged in it tames the sound a lot and gives a heck of a lot more power.
> 
> i will be trying it on my friends system as soon as he gets it. he has a clear audio turntable and kef r500 speakers on the way and i think a rotel amp. they are not state of the art by any means but ill let you know how it goes with the wa2 - should be next weekend and should be sweet!!!




Thats great! Look forward to hearing the results.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> I highly prefer the RFT EZ81 over any EZ80 I've ever listened to.  I'll be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between the stock Ei EZ80's and a few other brands I tried.  The RFT EZ81's made a noticeable difference.  Pick up a pair or two from TubeMonger:  http://www.tubemonger.com/RFT_E_German_EZ81_6CA4_Rectifier_tubes_p/526.htm


 
   
  my favorites are the RFT EZ80 and the Tesla EZ81 (NOS, not the JJ current production). I feel like the EZ80's are just smoother and the EZ81 are a little edgier. the RFT seemed really nice, i bought a spare RFT EZ80 a week ago.
   
   
   



rbnyc2 said:


> Hey, I was hoping someone here might be able to give me a good tip. I'm trying to find tubes for the WA6-SE that pair well with the LCD-2. I ordered the amp with the Sophia rectifier tube upgrade and the stock driver tubes (sylvania 6ew7). I'm finding that my HD600 sounds better than ever, but I'm not sure if this tube combination is the best for the LCD-2. What I'm hearing is a harsh treble mostly, especially when I turn the volume up. I'd like to find something that balances the sound a bit, less harsh in the highs, and perhaps more mid-bass/mid-range impact. Also, for some reason the HD600's bass has drastically improved with this setup but the bass on my LCD-2's is lacking and sounds much weaker than the HD600's. Typically the LCD-2's sound much bassier to my ears, so it's a bit confusing to me.
> 
> I'm mainly looking for driver tubes but I'm open to trying different rectifier tubes also. I've been searching through all the threads and it's a bit overwhelming so it would be great to hear from someone directly. Thanks in advance.


 

   
  you are correct, that Sophia + 6EW7 combo is great for sennheisers, however its not the best for the LCD-2 (not sure about the sharp treble though, should be a fairly smooth treble with those tubes). the 6EW7 are bass light and lower gain though, i feel this is why they suck with LCD-2. 
   
  anyways, the best combo is the _*596 rectifier + 6GL7 upgrade tubes*_ (6FD7 are ok here but i prefer 6GL7), another combo is Sophia + 6FD7 or 6DR7 (i find the 6DR7 to be tubey and smooth, but not as clean as 6FD7). also for LCD-2, you can switch out the sophia/596 in these combinations for a Mullard GZ34.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

thanks for the EZ rectifier feedback, anyone tried any Mullards?


----------



## GloryUprising

I really liked my Mazda 5R4GY with a pair of 6EM7 (electrically very similar to 6GL7) with both HD650 and LCD2.
   
  however, 596 is definitely a step up in all directions.  I actually found the 596+ 6EW7 to also be very good with the HD650s (but a little sluggish with LCD2 vs 596+6EM7).  Honestly, I think the 596 is the biggest upgrade for most all of my cans.
   
  On rectifiers alone, I find the Princess to be very WIDE OPEN in the sound stage and very smooth and well layered.  But suffers in speed and attack.  Great for jazz, non-orchestral classical music and vocalist stuff.
   
   
  My 5R4GY is similarly open and smooth and seems to be a bit faster, but not by much but definitely ups the gain (translating to louder volumes).  The low end, however, does not seem to extended as deep as the PS but the top seems cleaner.
   
  596 - Oh baby,  speed/attack (check), bass slam (check), sound stage (smaller check), layering (check). I definitely love this tube for most music.  But every one in a while, I'll switch back to the 5R4GY when I'm in a mellower mood; the princess... we'll she's getting older. =P


----------



## Silent One

Dubstep Girl, that's a wonderful acquisition and beautiful close-up.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks!


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> my favorites are the RFT EZ80 and the Tesla EZ81 (NOS, not the JJ current production). I feel like the EZ80's are just smoother and the EZ81 are a little edgier. the RFT seemed really nice, i bought a spare RFT EZ80 a week ago..


 
  Did you mean the RFT EZ_*81*_'s?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nope i bought EZ80's. haven't heard the RFT EZ81
   
  they look almost the same btw.


----------



## kazsud

Does anyone in the Philadelphia area have a Wa22 or Wa5 they wouldn't mind letting my ears hear? 
  I have a Nuforce Dac-100 and HD800s if anyone is interested in getting together.


----------



## daverich4

Just ordered a 596 and adapter from Jack for my WA22. They're up to $200 for the two pieces if anyone's interested.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jack must be running out then if he increased price that much. since he sells adapters for 50-60$


----------



## grokit

I paid $130 for my last 596 including shipping from Europe; I would re-sell it if I could recoup what I paid--so it would have to be for pretty much what Jack is now charging.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am looking at my two spare 596's on the shelf and smiling!


----------



## Silent One

Yes, he is running low. In fact, in January, I sold him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 his last 14 -15 '596' tubes. Ironic, but I needed to buy a pair back
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from him recently...


----------



## Silent One

Should any Woozies be lucky enough to get _The Mighty 596_, I'll be selling my brand new in-the-box adapters for them, just shy of retail.




   
  Wait... any of you - or perhaps, someone you know - have experience working with Teflon? If I could get them painted or dyed ALL black, I'd be interested in keeping them. Weigh-in if you can step in and assist!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Should any Woozies be lucky enough to get _The Mighty 596_, I'll be selling my brand new in-the-box adapters for them, just shy of retail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Glenn makes them in black....I have 2 of them...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Glenn makes them in black....I have 2 of them...


 
  x2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ok,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 who is he and how can I get in touch with him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




again? Now... where were we? YES, talking about adapters - in addition to the black 596-adapters I already have, I am interested in modifying the white adapters w/black stripe from WooAudio.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ok,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think I managed to get forty 596 tubes over the last few months for the Head-fiers but as you know SO, everyone is out of stock or asking ridiculous prices.
  Thanks to Clayton, I now have one of those 596 tubes back in my possession and Glenn will be making me an adapter, I couldn't be happier.
   
  I think that those who ever want to get a taste of the 596 should buy it at any occasion they find now. I'm not ever letting go of mine


----------



## Thaddy

Does the WA2 lend itself to accepting different tubes via Glenn's adapters?


----------



## nwavesailor

I believe that the 596 (tube) / 5U4 (base) adapter from Glenn or Jack Woo can only be used with the 596 rectifier.
  I'm sure Glenn or Jack will post if this is not the case.
   
  Glenn and Jack make other adapters for other tube combos as well. Both are very nice & well made adapters.
   
  .


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I think I managed to get forty 596 tubes over the last few months for the Head-fiers but as you know SO, everyone is out of stock or asking ridiculous prices.
> Thanks to Clayton, I now have one of those 596 tubes back in my possession and Glenn will be making me an adapter, I couldn't be happier.
> 
> I think that those who ever want to get a taste of the 596 should buy it at any occasion they find now.* I'm not ever letting go of mine*


 
   
  USAF-596
   
  I'll give away the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 before I give away this tube!


----------



## migasson

Goodbye Woo fans. My amp sold lot of really cool people on this thread.. I will miss you all! When my financial situation improves later next year I think I will return. (Ill try and NOT over spend and buy a WA5)


----------



## Silent One

migasson, it has been a pleasure interacting with you. However, don't let the sale prevent you from engaging us in conversation. We're not going to entice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




you or anything like that.
   
  In all that you do, best to you!


----------



## migasson

Cheers SilentOne


----------



## vincentc

I will be receiving a pair of USAF 596 tomorrow from Jack. I am extremely excited! From the conversation I had with him last week (via email) there were not many left.
   
  On the other hand, which driver tubes would you recommend to pair with this mighty 596? I am essentially listening to orchestral symphony, jazz and female vocals.


----------



## DutchGFX

I'll be joining the convo again, hopefully to stay, assuming I like the WA6SE  I got a sophia, and 2 pairs of 6EW7 so we shall see


----------



## jc9394

vincentc said:


> I will be receiving a pair of USAF 596 tomorrow from Jack. I am extremely excited! From the conversation I had with him last week (via email) there were not many left.
> 
> On the other hand, which driver tubes would you recommend to pair with this mighty 596? I am essentially listening to orchestral symphony, jazz and female vocals.




TS 6SN7 or 6F8G black glass round plate. 6F8G require an adapter but much cheaper.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> TS 6SN7 or 6F8G black glass round plate. 6F8G require an adapter but much cheaper.


 
   
  +1!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> I'll be joining the convo again, hopefully to stay, assuming I like the WA6SE  I got a sophia, and 2 pairs of 6EW7 so we shall see


 
   
  Congrats!


----------



## Silent One

So... I've got 5 USAF-596 rectifiers with no 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




amp. 2 adapters for said rectifier in the wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




colour. And in the spirit of Chess, now analyzing my next move...




   
  Guess the simplest thing to do would be to buy a Woo.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So... I've got 5 USAF-596 rectifiers with no
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No, a Glenn amp like Clayton and mine


----------



## Silent One

Ultra... why not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 both? I currently own a custom built OTL amp from 2359glenn. And looking to order much much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




more. I'm only temporarily sans amps because I shipped them ahead and I haven't yet moved (any week now). Not listening to my audio rig is killing me!
   
  BUT, I continue to hunt down new '596' recs.


----------



## JonasRas

Have just received a mail from Jack. He says my WA6 will ship between May 16 and and May 20. I'm so excited for it to come!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





vincentc said:


> I will be receiving a pair of USAF 596 tomorrow from Jack. I am extremely excited! From the conversation I had with him last week (via email) there were not many left.
> 
> On the other hand, which driver tubes would you recommend to pair with this mighty 596? I am essentially listening to orchestral symphony, jazz and female vocals.


 
   
  what amp? WA6-SE?
   
  i use 6GL7 or 6FD7 with my 596. the 6GL7/596 works especially great for LCD-2 (and HD 800 as well)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So... I've got 5 USAF-596 rectifiers with no
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are dangling raw meat in front of USAF-596-tubeless Lions.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If that's not enough, I could deliver 'em in 52 minutes, take that FedEx!


----------



## DutchGFX

silent one said:


> If that's not enough, I could deliver 'em in 52 minutes, take that FedEx!




I had some 'lytics and resistors that said Guarenteed Delivery 12pm yesterday, got em 4pm today, dont even complain bout ur shipping haha


----------



## teknikk7

Just snatched up a 596 from a fellow Head-fier! Really looking forward to the 596 / 6SN7 combo.
   
  There may be a Sophia up for sale soon...


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So... I've got 5 USAF-596 rectifiers with no
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ultra... why not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Damn, and I though I was collectin' 'em.


----------



## joyway

Hi, I have a question about wa22. Someone said that wa22 can't beat wa6se in Single Ended output. And my cdplayer doesn't have blanced output. I mean if wa22 in my system is in the same class with wa6se, then I will consider wa6se instead. Thanks~


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ive heard both things. WA6-SE being better in single-end or the WA22 being about the same/slightly worse/slightly better. 
   
  either way, WA22 absolutely needs a balanced source to sound its best. you would save some money going WA6-SE (half the price + less tubes)


----------



## vincentc

Just received the USAF-596 today! Even after 50 minutes of listen I can already find more details and a better spacial disposition in my music. Please notice the happy cow at the back, she is enjoying the show as much as me


----------



## joyway

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ive heard both things. WA6-SE being better in single-end or the WA22 being about the same/slightly worse/slightly better.
> 
> either way, WA22 absolutely needs a balanced source to sound its best. you would save some money going WA6-SE (half the price + less tubes)


 
  haha, then wa22 is out of my list. Thank you so much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





joyway said:


> haha, then wa22 is out of my list. Thank you so much.


 
   
  no prob
   
  remember the WA22 is better than the WA6-SE, but you have to have balanced source. if you do, its a world class amp. if not, you're only using half the amp basically.


----------



## Clayton SF

I've owned a WA22 for 3.5 years and I still am amazed at how well it sounds (and how many Q&As that are still very helpful in this thread).
   
  I have a balanced source connected to my WA22 but I don't own any balanced headphones. I am wondering if listening to a balanced source through SE phones is still better than listening to an SE source through the same SE phones. I've noticed an increase in gain and maybe a little more weight but the SE > SE has a little more clarity than BALANCE > SE (IMO).
   
  I just dug through my tube boxes and found a 274B that I forgot I had so I'll listen to that one today. I must admit, though, I usually end up listening to the music more than the amp.
   
  Also, there has been more talk about the rectifier as the dominant influence in SQ than driver tubes. So where does that leave amps that don't use tube rectifiers. It would seem an easy fix to take the tube rectifier out of the equation and just use an ss rectifier like so many other great amps like Ultrainferno's Bottlehead Crack and others. What say ye _*Ultrainferno*_?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ultra says that up to now, in his experience with the WA2, the rectifier tube rolling had minimal effect on the sound. Changing the power tubes did a lot more.
  I do hope however this will be different in my new Integrated Stereo Amp from Glenn, why else would I have gotten this great collection of rectifiers from you, Clayton


----------



## Silent One

Drive tubes can have an effect on rectifiers and power tubes... on each other, actually. This has been my experience. And the outcome is dependent on which tube brings what to the table, as they say.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





vincentc said:


> Just received the USAF-596 today! Even after 50 minutes of listen I can already find more details and a better spacial disposition in my music. Please notice the happy cow at the back, she is enjoying the show as much as me


 
   
  That looks better than 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 breakfast! Speaking of cows, musical details and your new '596,' put on some Steely Dan "Black Cow..."


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So... I've got 5 USAF-596 rectifiers with no
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm in the same camp too...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Have to put the WA22 in the closet to keep the little fingers keep touching the tubes.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





vincentc said:


> Just received the USAF-596 today! Even after 50 minutes of listen I can already find more details and a better spacial disposition in my music. Please notice the happy cow at the back, she is enjoying the show as much as me


 
  I like this shot.  Nice job.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm in the same camp too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Speaking of_ fingers_, do you and your wife have a piano inside the home or did/do either of you play musical instruments?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Speaking of_ fingers_, do you and your wife have a piano inside the home or did/do either of you play musical instruments?


 
   
  We do have a digital piano at home, we don't play instruments but our daughters are both in piano lessons.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> We do have a digital piano at home, we don't play instruments but *our daughters are both in piano lessons. *


 
   
  A BIG cheers for their parents!


----------



## RBNYC2

Thanks for the info about the tubes for the LCD-2. I'm trying to find a 596 rectifier now. I've already purchased and received the 6GL7 tubes + adapters from Jack. Are there any other tubes you guys would recommend to be used with the WA6-SE/LCD-2 pairing that I can try other than the 596/6GL7? The descriptions I've heard for the 596 sound great. I understand it may be hard to find but even if I do get one, I'm really looking forward to doing some more tube rolling so I'd love to hear about other options.
   
  Also--I'm curious what you guys think would be the ideal Woo setup for the LCD-2's. Would a balanced WA22 setup be preferable over a single-ended WA6-SE? Or something else entirely? I'm wondering for the future, in case I decide to get something else to pair with these headphones.


----------



## grokit

If you have a balanced source you like and can afford the extra $, then I would say yes. The WA22 doesn't _require _balanced headphone cables to sound its best, but some headphones respond positively to balanced cabling and the LCD2 is one of those.


----------



## john57

Also the WA22 works best with balanced *inputs*. Some balanced tube amps on the other hand, like the Little Dot VI+ works best with balanced headphones on the *outputs* but can drive single ended headphones in a pinch since it is a strong OTL PP amp.
   
  In addition some balanced DAC's works better single ended. It depends on careful matching of all four parts of the analog circuits. What I am trying to say it takes more careful matching of parts to make a good sounding DAC's on the balanced outputs which is harder using discrete parts.


----------



## shipsupt

I'm still in the camp that drivers will have more of a direct impact on sound than the rectifier. 

Your rectifier is doing a pretty simple job in you power supply of taking AC and only allowing current to flow in one direction, like a diode, so you can get DC for use in the amp. 

Your divers, on the other hand, are amplifying the audio signal, so they are right in the audio signal path.





clayton sf said:


> Also, there has been more talk about the rectifier as the dominant influence in SQ than driver tubes. So where does that leave amps that don't use tube rectifiers. It would seem an easy fix to take the tube rectifier out of the equation and just use an ss rectifier like so many other great amps like Ultrainferno's Bottlehead Crack and others. What say ye _*Ultrainferno*_?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I'm still in the camp that drivers will have more of a direct impact on sound than the rectifier.
> Your rectifier is doing a pretty simple job in you power supply of taking AC and only allowing current to flow in one direction, like a diode, so you can get DC for use in the amp.
> Your divers, on the other hand, are amplifying the audio signal, so they_* are right in the audio signal path.*_


 
   
  Great explanation, shipsupt. How much more time will you spend in the U.K. before you come home?  Have you come across any great hi-fi stores in London?


----------



## shipsupt

A few more years to go! Then back to the Bay Area.

I've managed to find a few used record shops I like, but I've stayed away from many of the high end equipment shops. I did make the recent London meet, it was fantastic! There is a great group of Head-fi'ers over here.


----------



## DutchGFX

Anyone know a pair of bass light tubes, the WA6SE has kinda bloated bass IMHO... Other than that its amazing, but, the bass is kinda muddy and bloated, just slightly
   
  This is with Sophia 274b Mesh Plate if it matters.
   
  I tried both Sylvania and Raytheon 6DE7 or 6EW7, the stock fit, no adapters.


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Anyone know a pair of bass light tubes, the WA6SE has kinda bloated bass IMHO... Other than that its amazing, but, the bass is kinda muddy and bloated, just slightly
> 
> This is with Sophia 274b Mesh Plate if it matters.
> 
> I tried both Sylvania and Raytheon 6DE7 or 6EW7, the stock fit, no adapters.


 
  What's your source? What DAC are you using?


----------



## DutchGFX

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> What's your source? What DAC are you using?


 

 Gamma 2 via USB


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Anyone know a pair of bass light tubes, the WA6SE has kinda bloated bass IMHO... Other than that its amazing, but, the bass is kinda muddy and bloated, just slightly
> 
> This is with Sophia 274b Mesh Plate if it matters.
> 
> I tried both Sylvania and Raytheon 6DE7 or 6EW7, the stock fit, no adapters.


 
   
  6FD7 might tighten the bass a bit. the 6EW7 is already a bass light tube, but the bass tends to be loose. (its a slower sounding tube with smooth highs, beautiful wide midrange with an open sound, and light yet slightly loose bass). the sophia might also have slight bass bloat to it, for me, i find the 596 and GZ34 tubes to be tighter and more controlled in the bass. 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





rbnyc2 said:


> Thanks for the info about the tubes for the LCD-2. I'm trying to find a 596 rectifier now. I've already purchased and received the 6GL7 tubes + adapters from Jack. Are there any other tubes you guys would recommend to be used with the WA6-SE/LCD-2 pairing that I can try other than the 596/6GL7? The descriptions I've heard for the 596 sound great. I understand it may be hard to find but even if I do get one, I'm really looking forward to doing some more tube rolling so I'd love to hear about other options.
> 
> Also--I'm curious what you guys think would be the ideal Woo setup for the LCD-2's. Would a balanced WA22 setup be preferable over a single-ended WA6-SE? Or something else entirely? I'm wondering for the future, in case I decide to get something else to pair with these headphones.


 
   
  is jack out of 596 already? 
   
  you should also check out the 6FD7 driver/power tubes and maybe the mullard GZ34 rectifier, both are quite nice with the LCD-2. the 596/6GL7 combo is very good though.


----------



## DutchGFX

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> 6FD7 might tighten the bass a bit. the 6EW7 is already a bass light tube, but the bass tends to be loose. (its a slower sounding tube with smooth highs, beautiful wide midrange with an open sound, and light yet slightly loose bass). the sophia might also have slight bass bloat to it, for me, i find the 596 and GZ34 tubes to be tighter and more controlled in the bass.


 
  Yeah I think it's more loose than excess, although slight excess is present I think. Do I need an adapter for 6FD7?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no adapter needed. however, im not entirely sure if the 6FD7 would sound better on the HE-5LE i have the HE-500 as a reference, but they're different sounding headphones. 
   
  i feel like the sophia is a slightly bassy tube, but i may be wrong.


----------



## migasson

Couldn't help but get sucked back into this thread!

I respect everyone's opinions, so don't take this as a disagreement. I had a WA22 balanced, with balanced cable going into LCD-2's. yes, the LCD's did sound better balanced, but by how much is the question, and of course, this is down to the listener. The WA22 with a balanced source was a bigger improvement I'd say, but coming from a vinyl addict such as myself, it reduces the phono stage options, which is frustrating when I wouldn't get the most of, say, a Rogue Audio Ares. So, to balance an LCD-2 with Moon Audio Black Dragon? There goes $300-$350.. To my ears it' was about 15% better, so you do the math whether you think it's worth it. Retrospectively, I'd probably would have got a WA6SE, put the change in my pocket, and bought a better phono stage. However, financial circumstances prevailed which made me sell the WA22, now I've got a Burson Soloist, and the void isn't that great, and it's got rid of my urge to tweak the damn system! If anyone is considering a move away, they should listen to this. It's the closest I've heard to great sounding solid state system... Transparency is high.


----------



## DutchGFX

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> no adapter needed. however, im not entirely sure if the 6FD7 would sound better on the HE-5LE i have the HE-500 as a reference, but they're different sounding headphones.
> 
> i feel like the sophia is a slightly bassy tube, but i may be wrong.


 

 This is a weird issue, its pretty noticible, too. Is it possible that a lack of power is causing distortion?


----------



## magiccabbage

i was wondering of anyone could answer this question?
   
  if the wa5 is an upgrade from wa22 why does it not have a balanced option?
  does balanced = better audio or just different?
   
  i see that woo audio only have one balanced option other than the Uber expensive wa234.


----------



## Dillan

Well, I have officially received my matched pair of black plate 6AS7G, they - without question - were the warmth I was after. They sound much better than any of the previous tubes I have purchased. If anyone is interested in buying some of those, I would give a good deal, all of them were tested new when I bought them and I have barely put any time on them. Anyway, thanks Dubstepgirl and the others for the recommendation. Couldn't be happier.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage, they are two entirely different amps. "Balanced" doesn't mean better - it will come down the build and parts used whether SE or Balanced.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rbnyc2 said:


> Thanks for the info about the tubes for the LCD-2. I'm trying to find a 596 rectifier now. I've already purchased and received the 6GL7 tubes + adapters from Jack. Are there any other tubes you guys would recommend to be used with the WA6-SE/LCD-2 pairing that I can try other than the 596/6GL7? The descriptions I've heard for the 596 sound great. I understand it may be hard to find but even if I do get one, I'm really looking forward to doing some more tube rolling so I'd love to hear about other options.
> 
> Also--I'm curious what you guys think would be the ideal Woo setup for the LCD-2's. Would a balanced WA22 setup be preferable over a single-ended WA6-SE? Or something else entirely? I'm wondering for the future, in case I decide to get something else to pair with these headphones.


 
   
  Did you inquire if Jack Wu (WooAudio) had any USAF-596 rectifiers remaining?


----------



## DutchGFX

Can changing tubes increase power output, not just gain, but shear volts. At 38ohms the WA6SE doesnt quite reach the 2w recomended.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it does with the 6CY7 and some of the other higher gain tubes. i think you'll need current more than voltage btw but yeah it does increase power output.
   
  WA6-SE
   
  2000mW @32Ω
  1900mW @60Ω
  1800mW @120Ω
  1300mW @300Ω
  800mW @600Ω
  (with 6CY7)


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Did you inquire if Jack Wu (WooAudio) had any USAF-596 rectifiers remaining?


 
  Jack just got back to me today. $200 with adapter for the 596 if anyone is interested.  Lucky I picked mine up for half that price a couple days ago...


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Gamma 2 via USB


 
  Have you tried a different DAC? The BurrBrown seems to color the sound a bit IMO.
   
  Can you try to connect via toslink? My DAC gives a slightly different sound via toslink.


----------



## DutchGFX

dubstep girl said:


> it does with the 6CY7 and some of the other higher gain tubes. i think you'll need current more than voltage btw but yeah it does increase power output.
> 
> WA6-SE
> 
> ...




Is the 6CY7 more gain than the stock 6DE7/6EW7? 

Also, since the 5le is 38 ohms, I assume it's not getting the 2w it needs, especially if those #'s ^^^ are for very high gain tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes. the 6EW7/6DE7 don't have as much gain.
   
  the 6CY7 is a significantly more powerful tube. the 6EW7 will go to 11 o clock while the 6CY7 and other high gains (6DR7, 6FD7, 6GL7) can be just as loud at around 9. it changes depending on headphones, but the gain is noticeable. 
   
  the 6EW7 requires like 10 or 11 for the LCD-2 while the 6DR7 was loud with LCD-2 at like 8 or something. so its pretty significant.


----------



## Clayton SF

My favorite tube for my WA6 is the GE 6CY7.
  It is also a very bright and beautifully glowy tube.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quantity remaining?


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> i was wondering of anyone could answer this question?
> 
> if the wa5 is an upgrade from wa22 why does it not have a balanced option?
> does balanced = better audio or just different?
> ...


 
   
  The WA5 and WA5LE are single ended amps.  They cannot be balanced.  The reason the amp is more desirable is because of the 300B.


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quantity remaining?


 
  I didn't ask.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> Jack just got back to me today. $200 with adapter for the 596 if anyone is interested.  Lucky I picked mine up for half that price a couple days ago...


 
   
  Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> I didn't ask.


 
   
  Could you please and let us know where you got it from? By PM if necessary (SO or myself). thanks


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Could you please and let us know where you got it from? By PM if necessary (SO or myself). thanks


 
  +1 for me too! =x


----------



## LiuTim

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> The WA5 and WA5LE are single ended amps.  They cannot be balanced.  The reason the amp is more desirable is because of the 300B.


 
  I have a question, Eddie Current Balancing Act has one 6SN7 and two 300B tubes and it is a balanced AMP,  WA5 has two 6SN7 and two 300B tubes but it is a single ended AMP, why?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Cause the amps are built differently. Same tubes but different design


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Cause the amps are built differently. Same tubes but different design


 
   
  They use different rectifiers and the ECBA can also use PX4's.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





migasson said:


> Couldn't help but get sucked back into this thread!
> 
> I respect everyone's opinions, so don't take this as a disagreement. I had a WA22 balanced, with balanced cable going into LCD-2's. yes, the LCD's did sound better balanced, but by how much is the question, and of course, this is down to the listener. The WA22 with a balanced source was a bigger improvement I'd say, but coming from a vinyl addict such as myself, it reduces the phono stage options, which is frustrating when I wouldn't get the most of, say, a Rogue Audio Ares. So, to balance an LCD-2 with Moon Audio Black Dragon? There goes $300-$350.. To my ears it' was about 15% better, so you do the math whether you think it's worth it. Retrospectively, I'd probably would have got a WA6SE, put the change in my pocket, and bought a better phono stage. However, financial circumstances prevailed which made me sell the WA22, now I've got a Burson Soloist, and the void isn't that great, and it's got rid of my urge to tweak the damn system! If anyone is considering a move away, they should listen to this. It's the closest I've heard to great sounding solid state system... Transparency is high.


 
   
  There are balanced phono stage out there and I did auditioned one before but decided it is not for me since my table is only a RP3 and I used it with Marantz and quite happy with it.  
   
  Cable for LCD2/3 on WA22?  I prefer the Silver Dragon over few of them that I tried (Q Audio, Whiplash TWag, and Black Dragon).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dutchgfx said:


> Anyone know a pair of bass light tubes, the WA6SE has kinda bloated bass IMHO... Other than that its amazing, but, the bass is kinda muddy and bloated, just slightly
> 
> This is with Sophia 274b Mesh Plate if it matters.
> 
> I tried both Sylvania and Raytheon 6DE7 or 6EW7, the stock fit, no adapters.


 
   
  For tight bass, try 6FD7 with GZ34.


----------



## migasson

@jc9394, yep, there sure are, but it significantly reduces the choices trying to find a balanced phono stage.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





migasson said:


> @jc9394, yep, there sure are, but it significantly reduces the choices trying to find a balanced phono stage.


 
   
  and not to mention about 10X the price too, that is why I got a vintage receiver to do the job.


----------



## migasson

Good point JC


----------



## Silent One

While I did enjoy my Woo's presentation, my two big vintage iron blocks brings me advantages:
   
  . Power, finesse and tone
   
  . Can hook up a w-i-d-e variety of components, including an electric 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 tea kettle
   
  . Can use other amps/preamps with it or get used separately as an amp/preamp


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> +1 for me too! =x


 
  I got mine from a fellow headfier, he only had one.  I am unsure how many Jack has in stock.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> While I did enjoy my Woo's presentation, my two big vintage iron blocks brings me advantages:
> 
> . Power, finesse and tone
> 
> ...


 
  you must love popcorn. 
   
  have you posted any pics of your rig?


----------



## RBNYC2

I purchased a 596 from Jack today, he said he's got a few left.


----------



## GloryUprising

rbnyc2 said:


> I purchased a 596 from Jack today, he said he's got a few left.




What is he asking for now?


----------



## RBNYC2

Btw, I figured I'd post a pic of my relatively new all-Woo setup...this is with stock tubes, I'm waiting till I get the 596's to take a pic with all the fancy tubes. In case anyone is wondering, the headphone stand is great also.


----------



## RBNYC2

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> What is he asking for now?


 
  140 for the tube, 60 for the adapter


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





rbnyc2 said:


> Btw, I figured I'd post a pic of my relatively new all-Woo setup...this is with stock tubes, I'm waiting till I get the 596's to take a pic with all the fancy tubes. In case anyone is wondering, the headphone stand is great also.


 
  nice pics


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rbnyc2 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A $40 increase in 10 days... not bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All things considered.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I cannot stand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




popcorn in real life. Do like the way the little one snacks, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have flooded the site with pix the last three years. You may find several in:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/2805#post_9417207 (I started this thread)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/13230#post_9417136
http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/7125#post_9415156
   
  And of course this thread... lots!
   
  Below, just one of many configurations from last year...
   

   
  And my Woo from days gone by...


----------



## magiccabbage

Sweet mother of Moses!!


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I cannot stand
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  How do you like the W4S?  I was thinking of upgradeing from NuWave DAC....
   
  And where did you get those epic blocks?!!


----------



## jc9394

gloryuprising said:


> How do you like the W4S?  I was thinking of upgradeing from NuWave DAC....
> 
> And where did you get those epic blocks?!!




Have you considered PWD? 

Not sure where SO got his, I got mine from http://www.butcherblock.com/.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





>


 
   
  Curiously, what is that beauty next to the WA6SE?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *GloryUprising* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> How do you like the W4S?  I was thinking of upgradeing from NuWave DAC....
> ...


 
   
  I love the Wyred 4 Sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





shoe box! I got my wood from MapleShade Records.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Sweet mother of Moses!!


 
   
_The Mighty 596_ on display...
   

   
   
   
  I've got a Music Hall mmf-7 turntable and a few other audio pieces.
   

   

   
   
   
  AND then......... there's Godzilla! My 220 wpc Sansui G22000


----------



## magiccabbage

that sansui is serious. i love that vintage look. someone had an old school marantz receiver posted on a thread not too long ago and it was one of the nicest pieces i have seen
   
  think it was this


----------



## Silent One

Thanks. At 92 pounds, watch your foot though...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Woo is sure making a nice profit on the 596. Luckily I have one "on loan" from Clayton 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Now if only my new amp would arrive


----------



## Silent One

Not really. I sold him his current stock and I didn't get them too cheaply. Still, in 2010 I bought a 'Princess' from WooAudio for $175; in 2011 the EML 5U4G for $260. All things considered... the '596' still has room for inflation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But, before I let my Woo brothers and sisters down, I best get back to hunting them down!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've spent a couple of hours last night doing that, but nothing yet


----------



## DutchGFX

Dumb question but, Sophia Princess are still in production right?


----------



## migasson

Yep. Ask Jack Wu!


----------



## DutchGFX

I have one, I was just wondering if it's NoS, which it doesn't appear to be


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:
   
   


silent one said:


> Not really. I sold him his current stock and I didn't get them too cheaply. Still, in 2010 I bought a 'Princess' from WooAudio for $175; in 2011 the EML 5U4G for $260. All things considered... the '596' still has room for inflation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And Woo is selling it back to us at a profit? Should have left them at "home" amongst the little people. 
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Woo is sure making a nice profit on the 596. Luckily I have one "on loan" from Clayton
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ultra- it is not "on loan." It is all yours to keep forever and ever. I wonder when the next "596" will be uncovered.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And Woo is selling it back to us at a profit? Should have left it them at "home" amongst the little people.


 
   
  A handful of members backed out. To prevent a collapse, I brought in a new investor to close the deal. So, the original little people really were taken care of. If I find a clean lot of NOS USAF-596's (perhaps, w/boxes) of 20 to 100, I may broker the investment.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> And Woo is selling it back to us at a profit? Should have left it them at "home" amongst the little people.
> 
> 
> Ultra- it is not "on loan." It is all yours to keep forever and ever. I wonder when the next "596" will be uncovered.


 
   
  Does it come with warranty?
  Just kidding. thank you again 
   
  Yeah, I was wondering that too. I mean, I'm sure Glenn can find another great tube we don't know about yet...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Does it come with warranty?
> Just kidding. thank you again
> Yeah, I was wondering that too. I mean, I'm sure Glenn can find another great tube we don't know about yet...


 
   
  Of course it comes with a warranty* which*_* also includes (at no charge!) a periodic site visit*_ to make certain that it is working at its optimum (bias) level in your amp. So I'd say the next site visit is in 3 months?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Deal!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Woo is sure making a nice profit on the 596. Luckily I have one "on loan" from Clayton
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Your new amp will work better with the GZ37 ask Clayton.


----------



## kchew

I wonder if the WA22 can support the BL63? I'm thinking not, but a bunch showed up on evilbay and is giving me bad thoughts...


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> Your new amp will work better with the GZ37 ask Clayton.




I know, that's what I understood and I will mainly use GZ33 and 37 but I just have to try the magic 596 at least for a little while.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I know, that's what I understood and I will mainly use GZ33 and 37 but I just have to try the magic 596 at least for a little while.


 
  GZ33 and GZ37 = Warm mids, rich sound, very nice top sparkle (it is closer to a shimmer), broad bass. Female vocals are very natural.
   
  596 = Clean, almost ss sound. Bright mids and expansive bass. The highs can be a little dry. Female vocals a little forward.
   
  Glenn's mono blocks started to settle in with its sound signature after about 400 hours. (A real guesstimate--I don't log hours.)
   
  This is all with speakers. Zu Omen Standard 12-ohms speakers plugged into the 16 ohm speaker outs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Looks like I'll be fan of the GZ series then. But I do wonder what you will think of the amp, C


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Looks like I'll be fan of the GZ series then. But I do wonder what you will think of the amp, C


 
   
  VISUALLY your amp is stunning. Glenn's amp really looks like a powerhouse of sound. It is no surprise that all of those beautiful tubes combined with the genius of his amp design present the music with elegance and eloquence. You have a gem!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> VISUALLY your amp is stunning. Glenn's amp really looks like a powerhouse of sound. It is no surprise that all of those beautiful tubes combined with the genius of his amp design present the music with elegance and eloquence. You have a gem!


 
   
  Yes, I'm really happy to get a "Glenn Stereo Integrated" as he calls it. But you have 3 gems already


----------



## GloryUprising

clayton sf said:


> Of course it comes with a warranty *which* _*also includes (at no charge!) a periodic site visit*_ to make certain that it is working at its optimum (bias) level in your amp. So I'd say the next site visit is in 3 months?




Now THAT is customer service!


----------



## magiccabbage

i was thinking of getting these rft ez80s but they look kinda dodgy - they dont look like the same tube. anyone have any advice on wheter i should go for these 
   
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/EZ80-PAIR-RFT-RECTIFIERS-Vacuum-Tube-Valvola-Rohre-Valvula-/380524434050?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5899061282
   
  or these 
   
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/EZ80-RFT-VACUUM-TUBE-NOS-in-NIB-QTY-2-/251221323418?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a7df52e9a#ht_1695wt_1159
   
  ?????


----------



## magiccabbage

sorry they are for wa2 i forgot to say


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *magiccabbage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *or these *
> 
> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/EZ80-RFT-VACUUM-TUBE-NOS-in-NIB-QTY-2-/251221323418?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a7df52e9a#ht_1695wt_1159


 
   
  I'd go with the second set. I actually own a few Mullard EZ80 and EZ81 but if I were to buy some RFT tubes I would buy from the second link that you posted.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'd go with the second set. I actually own a few Mullard EZ80 and EZ81 but if I were to buy some RFT tubes I would buy from the second link that you posted.


 
  thank you mister clayton i will do! one more question i have asked one or two people this already but ill ask you as well to be extra sure. 
   
  do you think the ez80 will pair well with tung sol 5998 and jan sylvania 7308?


----------



## vincentc

Hello everybody,
   
  I have an issue. When I turn my setup "on" I can hear some background noise (static in my opinion).
   
*Setup:*

 Flac songs
 MediaMonkey
 USB from motherboard (Desktop computer placed on the floor close to a plug)
 Hi-Diamond USB2 cable
 Audio-gd NFB 3.33
 RCA interconnection cable (Audio-gd)
 WA6-SE
 LCD2, GS1000, DT880
   
  So far I tried the amp alone and there is no noise, however as soon as I plug the RCA I can hear the static (with DAC "on" or "off"). Then I tried to plug the amp directly to the computer via a jack to RCA and the background appears to be worst. Therefore I think that the statics are coming from the computer but I am not sure. Could it be the quality of my plugs? I will try to use my other amp tonight (ALO PanAm) to see. Do you have any advices for me at this stage?
   
  Thanks for your help!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thank you mister clayton i will do! one more question i have asked one or two people this already but ill ask you as well to be extra sure.
> do you think the ez80 will pair well with tung sol 5998 and jan sylvania 7308?


 
  You're welcome.
  I can't answer that question because I've never owned those tubes. Ultrainferno has borrowed my WA2 and has been using it since last August. I use my WA2 with either a Mullard EZ80 or EZ81. I use RCA 6AS7 or G.E. 6AS7 and Mullard CV2493. I really enjoyed those tubes together. The RCA 6AS7 is warmer than the G.E. 6AS7. I like them both.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're welcome.
> I can't answer that question because I've never owned those tubes. Ultrainferno has borrowed my WA2 and has been using it since last August. I use my WA2 with either a Mullard EZ80 or EZ81. I use RCA 6AS7 or G.E. 6AS7 and Mullard CV2493. I really enjoyed those tubes together. The RCA 6AS7 is warmer than the G.E. 6AS7. I like them both.


 
  thanks ill give them a read up!


----------



## senson

Quote: 





vincentc said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> I have an issue. When I turn my setup "on" I can hear some background noise (static in my opinion).
> 
> ...


 
  I had exact same problem with MF M1DAC-A to WA6-SE I could not figure out where that noise was coming from and couldn't get rid of it even after switching 3 different power supplies and 2 different motherboards lol. I ended up using Optical out from my Motherboard and Asus DX instead of USB out which solved the problem. Also It was interesting that I did not have any noise when I connect my iPad 3 to M1DAC-A via USB.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 596 = Clean, almost ss sound. Bright mids and expansive bass. The highs can be a little dry. Female vocals a little forward.


 
   
  clean is exactly the way i'd describe it!


----------



## vincentc

Quote: 





senson said:


> I had exact same problem with MF M1DAC-A to WA6-SE I could not figure out where that noise was coming from and couldn't get rid of it even after switching 3 different power supplies and 2 different motherboards lol. I ended up using Optical out from my Motherboard and Asus DX instead of USB out which solved the problem. Also It was interesting that I did not have any noise when I connect my iPad 3 to M1DAC-A via USB.


 
  Thanks for the quick reply Senson! I will try to switch to optic tonight, and use different sources. Quick question, in terms of sound quality, is optical cable better than high-end USB cable?


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thanks ill give them a read up!


 
  There are a lot of relatively inexpensive tubes for the WA2 that are widely available.  A few of my favorites:
   
  RFT EZ81:  http://www.tubemonger.com/RFT_E_German_EZ81_6CA4_Rectifier_tubes_p/526.htm
  Russian 6H23 "Rocket Logo":  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6H23-%7B47%7D-6922-Rocket-Logo.html
  RCA 6AS7G Black Plates:  https://www.tubeworld.com/6as7g.htm
   
  I wouldn't spend a lot of time or money tracking down rectifiers.  In my opinion, the RFT's are the best I've come across and just leave them in my amp at all times.  I may purchase another pair just to have as a backup, but that's it.  You're better off researching various preamp and power tubes.  Old and European isn't always the best though, give the Rocket Logo's I linked to above a chance.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thank you mister clayton i will do! one more question i have asked one or two people this already but ill ask you as well to be extra sure.
> 
> do you think the ez80 will pair well with tung sol 5998 and jan sylvania 7308?


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You're welcome.
> I can't answer that question because I've never owned those tubes. Ultrainferno has borrowed my WA2 and has been using it since last August. I use my WA2 with either a Mullard EZ80 or EZ81. I use RCA 6AS7 or G.E. 6AS7 and Mullard CV2493. I really enjoyed those tubes together. The RCA 6AS7 is warmer than the G.E. 6AS7. I like them both.


 
   
  It's been a while since I was rolling tubes in the WA2. I settled for RCA 6AS7G (Don't like the 5998 in this or any amp that much), Sylvania 6922 and Philips Miniwatt rectifiers. I do remember the effect of the rectifier on the sound to be minimalistic. I have to review today so maybe I'll roll in some other tubes while I'm at it. Clayton gave me some Mullard rectifiers too.


----------



## JonasRas

Can anyone recommend a good pair of powertubes for my soon to come WA6. I've been looking at these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-3-6DE7-RCA-NOS-/261212912838?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd180bcc6 and I'm wondering if it'll be worth the money upgrading to older stock tubes. Thanks!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> There are a lot of relatively inexpensive tubes for the WA2 that are widely available.  A few of my favorites:
> 
> RFT EZ81:  http://www.tubemonger.com/RFT_E_German_EZ81_6CA4_Rectifier_tubes_p/526.htm
> Russian 6H23 "Rocket Logo":  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6H23-%7B47%7D-6922-Rocket-Logo.html
> ...


 
  thanks for the info. i have the tubes i mentioned ordered and am gonna go with those but ill buy more in a couple of weeks. i think i came across the RCA 6AS7G before - those are the really full sounding ones compared to 5998 which are more for clarity? are the 6AS7Gs not supposed to be a bit temparmental with the wa2? or maybe that was just the 50s ones?


----------



## vincentc

Quick update on problem, the static comes from my computer. However, I can still hear it when I transfer the signal from my computer to the DAC via optical cable.
   
  There is one thing I don't understand, both my WA6-SE and my PanAm are plug to the DAC via RCA cables but when I listen to the PanAm I cannot hear the static at all... What could be the issue?
   
  And I just realised that when I touched the volume knob I can hear more static but when I stop touching it I can only hear the static from the computer. When I turned the computer "off" I cannot hear the static anymore, however if I touch the volume knob I can hear statics...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thanks for the info. i have the tubes i mentioned ordered and am gonna go with those but ill buy more in a couple of weeks. i think i came across the RCA 6AS7G before - those are the really full sounding ones compared to 5998 which are more for clarity? are the 6AS7Gs not supposed to be a bit temparmental with the wa2? or maybe that was just the 50s ones?


 
  I don't own any black-plate RCA 6AS7G tubes--just the grey ones; and those hiss and sputter very lightly for about the first hour. After that either I've learned to tune them out or they are no longer emitted. Also low-sensitivity headphones do not pick up the hissing and sputtering.
   
  Can anyone recommend great (or even good) low-sensitivity headphones? Thanks! The ones that I own are the Beyerdynamic DT990 600Ω which are one of my favorites.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Open? Closed? What sound signature? Musical styles? For which main amp? 
You'll get to listen to a dozen in August as well


----------



## Clayton SF

^ Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy!!!
  You're my new, old best friend!  ...
   
  and I get to take how many back with me?
   
  I'd like to say: All of the above. I just want to narrow down headphones that don't pick up some low-level hum, hiss, crackle and still let the music through.
   
  I do remember listening to the HE-500 headphones and really liking them when @shipsupt came over to my place.


----------



## Ultrainferno

You can take the HE500 back with you. Even the LCD-2 maybe. How does that sound 
  Most of my headphones are orthos or high impedance, like Beyer and Senn. Are you bored already of the DT770 AE? That one shouldn't pick up humming.
   
  I would suggest however to buy some more RCA 6AS7G, a lot of them tend to hum, you just have to get "lucky" Why don't I get you a couple of new NOS ones from my dealer and test them for you, I can return them to him so I'll make sure you have a hum free nos pair for cheap (on me).


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You can take the HE500 back with you. Even the LCD-2 maybe. How does that sound
> Most of my headphones are orthos or high impedance, like Beyer and Senn. Are you bored already of the DT770 AE? That one shouldn't pick up humming.
> 
> I would suggest however to buy some more RCA 6AS7G, a lot of them tend to hum, you just have to get "lucky" Why don't I get you a couple of new NOS ones from my dealer and test them for you, I can return them to him so I'll make sure you have a hum free nos pair for cheap (on me).


 
  the nicest man in the world


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thanks for the info. i have the tubes i mentioned ordered and am gonna go with those but ill buy more in a couple of weeks. i think i came across the RCA 6AS7G before - those are the really full sounding ones compared to 5998 which are more for clarity? are the 6AS7Gs not supposed to be a bit temparmental with the wa2? or maybe that was just the 50s ones?


 
  I've never had problems with the two sets of RCA Black Plates I have.  My Chatham 6AS7G's are quite microphonic though, but tube dampers help enough to make them listenable .  I think that's the risk you run with tubes in general though, especially considering the tubes the WA2 uses weren't designed with audio in mind.
   
  I've never had issues with noisy 6DJ8 or 6922 preamp tubes, however if you're concerned then just stick with E88CC/6922's.  They're a premium version of the ECC88/6DJ8 tube and should have lower noise and microphonics.
   
  Feel free to PM me if you have any other specific questions about tubes for your WA2.  I've had mine for a while and have tried a lot of tubes, I'd be happy to give you some suggestions.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You can take the HE500 back with you. Even the LCD-2 maybe. How does that sound
> Most of my headphones are orthos or high impedance, like Beyer and Senn. Are you bored already of the DT770 AE? That one shouldn't pick up humming.
> 
> I would suggest however to buy some more RCA 6AS7G, a lot of them tend to hum, you just have to get "lucky" Why don't I get you a couple of new NOS ones from my dealer and test them for you, I can return them to him so I'll make sure you have a hum free nos pair for cheap (on me).


 
   
  Since you are in EU, try to find GEC 6AS7G they are much less than US.  Out of three pair I have/had, none of them hum with WA22.


----------



## Thaddy

Question about power tubes...
   
  Does anyone know if the WA2 will accept a 6336A tube?  Apparently it's a super heavy duty military version of the 6080/6AS7G.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultrainferno*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I would agree. Ultrainferno is the nicest, the best-est and most generous-usususus in the world.
   
  Thanks for the offer, but I think listening to them when I stay with you is sufficient enough to get me in trouble--again and in a good way. Also, I really don't trust the airlines anymore as far as packing valuables and taking them onboard with me (or even checking them in).


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy!!!
> You're my new, old best friend!  ...
> 
> and I get to take how many back with me?
> ...


 

 I'd suggest you stay away from the HD800's then. Every time I've had mine at a meet I've gotten comments about hearing ticks and pops on ripped vinyl files that other phones have masked out.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my brand new RFT EZ80s as spares! 
   
   

   
   
  also i got to hear DutchGFX's HE-5LE  on my WA6-SE. while the 6EW7 definitely sucks with them, the 6FD7 sounds fantastic! highly recommended for anyone whos been considering a WA6-SE to drive them. drives them just as good as the HE-500.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Yes, I'm really happy to get a "Glenn Stereo Integrated" as he calls it. But you have 3 gems already


 
   
  Sometimes, waiting for new audio goodies isn't necessarily a bad thing. In my case, by waiting to see what Autumn will hold as promise, I get to deal with a newly rejuvenated and freshly
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 inspired "2359glenn." 
   
  Birds singing sweetly outside his window. Ducks quacking in the pond down the road and just beyond. I'll get to sit down and consult with the master one Saturday morning. By noon, I'll be headed back to the airport. _Armed_ with one of the most wicked
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and sinister 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 amp designs to emerge from the studio yet. 
   
  Now... how long it takes to build will be entirely up to him. Testing alone could take a very long time...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got my brand new RFT EZ80s as spares!
> 
> also i got to hear DutchGFX's HE-5LE  on my WA6-SE. while the 6EW7 definitely sucks with them, the 6FD7 sounds fantastic! highly recommended for anyone whos been considering a WA6-SE to drive them. drives them just as good as the HE-500.


 

 Those are beautiful. I love the old graphics on the box.


----------



## teknikk7

Got my USAF-596 today and I'm listening to it going hmm...?  Maybe it's my equipment, my low end HD650.  I am saying right now it is very close to the Sophia. Bass seems to go a tad lower in certain songs, sound is very very clean though.  Feel like I am missing that slam everyone was talking about.  I'm using RCA 6SN7 with it.  My vintage Sylvania 6SN7 should be here tomorrow, looking forward to those.
   
  I'll let everything break in for a couple days then post back.


----------



## Thaddy

I've found that sometimes a certain tube that everyone seems to love just isn't for me.  Don't force yourself to like something just because everyone else does


----------



## Silent One

Additionally, one's source can matter...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> Got my USAF-596 today and I'm listening to it going hmm...?  Maybe it's my equipment, my low end HD650.  I am saying right now it is very close to the Sophia. Bass seems to go a tad lower in certain songs, sound is very very clean though.  Feel like I am missing that slam everyone was talking about.  I'm using RCA 6SN7 with it.  My vintage Sylvania 6SN7 should be here tomorrow, looking forward to those.
> 
> I'll let everything break in for a couple days then post back.


 
   
  You're fortunate in that, if not your tea, demand is strong. Investment recovery could be quick & dirty..._ Next!_


----------



## DutchGFX

How much is this Glenn amp u guys are talking about? And where can I see one/buy one


----------



## Silent One

You can send him a PM and hold talks... 2359glenn. He builds custom amps, so pricing will vary.


----------



## DutchGFX

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You can send him a PM and hold talks... 2359glenn. He builds custom amps, so pricing will vary.


 
  > $1000?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Depends on what you want exactly. And that's without tubes


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Depends on what you want exactly. And that's without tubes


 
   
  Choose the wrong power tube (300B anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and the tube complement could exceed the price of the amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Depends on what you want exactly. And that's without tubes




 Hey, Ultra- !
 You're still up?
 It's the next day where you are.
  
 Note: Glenn recommends using the Mullard GZ37 with his current 300B amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

my friend recently got a pair of kEFF R500s and a Rotel RA-12 amp.  the setup sounds serious enough to my ears and ill be on my way down to use the wa2 as a pre amp with his rig. I just just don't know whether to go down this weekend or wait for the tube upgrades to come and then go?? i dont know if i can hold off.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Question about power tubes...
> 
> Does anyone know if the WA2 will accept a 6336A tube?  Apparently it's a super heavy duty military version of the 6080/6AS7G.


 
  So no one is sure if the WA2 accepts the 6336A?  I've emailed Jack but he hasn't responded.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> So no one is sure if the WA2 accepts the 6336A?  I've emailed Jack but he hasn't responded.


 
  i have no idea sorry


----------



## grokit

Have you checked Woo's tube compatibility chart?


----------



## GrindingThud

With the heater current at 5A per tube, you've got 10A of heater (more than double).  It's very doubtfull, but Jack will answer for sure.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> So no one is sure if the WA2 accepts the 6336A?  I've emailed Jack but he hasn't responded.


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> Got my USAF-596 today and I'm listening to it going hmm...?  Maybe it's my equipment, my low end HD650.  I am saying right now it is very close to the Sophia. Bass seems to go a tad lower in certain songs, sound is very very clean though.  Feel like I am missing that slam everyone was talking about.  I'm using RCA 6SN7 with it.  My vintage Sylvania 6SN7 should be here tomorrow, looking forward to those.
> 
> I'll let everything break in for a couple days then post back.


 

 I've had mine for two days now and while the bass goes all the way down into the basement, so far compared to the Sophia, the sound stage is smaller, singers are more forward and I hear what seems to be a small amount of harshness in the highs. It's only got about 5 hours on it so I'm going to let it cook for awhile before getting down to any serious listening.
   
  I got the adapter from Jack and while a number of members have said they don't like the white color, my WA22 is black and to my eye the white adapter looks pretty good in between the white bases of the Treasures on either side of it. Another comment about the adapter that I've seen is that the caps on the end of the wires don't fit the pins on the tube snugly but mine are a nice, tight press fit.


----------



## jc9394

From my experience, 596 does not change with burn it.  Pair it with a good match driver tubes, the 596 will sing.


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> From my experience, 596 does not change with burn it.  Pair it with a good match driver tubes, the 596 will sing.


 

 I'm currently using the Treasures. Would you suggest something else?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> I'm currently using the Treasures. Would you suggest something else?


 
   
  I see you with WA22?  What power tubes you are using and what headphone?


----------



## nwavesailor

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> I've had mine for two days now and while the bass goes all the way down into the basement, so far compared to the Sophia, the sound stage is smaller, singers are more forward and I hear what seems to be a small amount of harshness in the highs. It's only got about 5 hours on it so I'm going to let it cook for awhile before getting down to any serious listening.
> 
> I got the adapter from Jack and while a number of members have said they don't like the white color, my WA22 is black and to my eye the white adapter looks pretty good in between the white bases of the Treasures on either side of it. Another comment about the adapter that I've seen is that the caps on the end of the wires don't fit the pins on the tube snugly but mine are a nice, tight press fit.


 

 If the cap(s) on the Woo Audio adapter are not tight enough, take a very small jewelers screwdriver and gently pry the pin 'grabbers' closer to the center. The pins on the 596's vary a bit tube to tube. I have used Jacks adapter (as well as Glenn's) and on some tubes the fit is snug and others not so much.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> With the heater current at 5A per tube, you've got 10A of heater (more than double).  It's very doubtfull, but Jack will answer for sure.


 
  This is what I originally thought, and of course no one really uses this tube with the WA2 but I figured I'd at least ask!  Hopefully Jack has good news...


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I see you with WA22?  What power tubes you are using and what headphone?


 

 Power tubes are NOS Sylvania 7236 and headphones are HD800's.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> Power tubes are NOS Sylvania 7236 and headphones are HD800's.


 
   
  Give 6f8g a try, they will need a adapter.  I like the National Union brand one.


----------



## nwavesailor

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give 6f8g a try, they will need a adapter.  I like the National Union brand one.


 

 Second the National Union (round plate version) of the 6F8G!
   
  I like the NU better than the Tung Sol round plates.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> From my experience, 596 does not change with burn it.  Pair it with a good match driver tubes, the 596 will sing.


 
   
  +1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> +1


 
   
  +2


----------



## RBNYC2

What are some good driver/power tubes to pair with the 596? Other than the stock tubes, I've tried the Sophia and 596 rectifier's and a pair of 6EM7 driver tubes for my WA6-SE. I like both rectifiers, but the 6EM7's seem to take away from the sound quality. Not sure if there's something wrong with my pair of tubes or if it's just the sound in general that I don't like, but I've gone back to the stock driver tubes. I'd love to try some others.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i like my 6GL7 (same as 6EM7 basically) with 596, but it tends to get the most use with LCD-2, and sometimes HD 800.
   
  check out 6FD7 as well, they're pretty good.


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> So no one is sure if the WA2 accepts the 6336A?  I've emailed Jack but he hasn't responded.


 
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
  This is the best way to find the answer. This is Jack's compatibility chart.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
> This is the best way to find the answer. This is Jack's compatibility chart.


 
  Jack confirmed that it can't be used in the WA2 because of it's high current requirements.  Bummer.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Jack confirmed that it can't be used in the WA2 because of it's high current requirements.  Bummer.


 
  Big Time!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have a hum on the right channel on a new WA2, I have exchanged tubes, swapped tubes over, lifted earth line and tried new location for the amp with no luck. Any other suggestions I could try?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> I have a hum on the right channel on a new WA2, I have exchanged tubes, swapped tubes over, lifted earth line and tried new location for the amp with no luck. Any other suggestions I could try?


 
  BIN! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





..........


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i like my 6GL7 (same as 6EM7 basically) with 596, but it tends to get the most use with LCD-2, and sometimes HD 800.
> 
> check out 6FD7 as well, they're pretty good.


 
  I'm a 6FD7 fanman myself.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> I have a hum on the right channel on a new WA2, I have exchanged tubes, swapped tubes over, lifted earth line and tried new location for the amp with no luck. Any other suggestions I could try?


 
   
  It sounds like your amp may need to be checked out by Woo. You've tried everything that I could think of anyways. Best of luck!


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> I have a hum on the right channel on a new WA2, I have exchanged tubes, swapped tubes over, lifted earth line and tried new location for the amp with no luck. Any other suggestions I could try?


 
  Did you try another set of headphones?


----------



## DutchGFX

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Did you try another set of headphones?


 

 And try new interconnects if you havent already


----------



## Nic Rhodes

run on 5 headphones and three interconnects  Might have found the issue though, some bad luck...will report back  Thanks for the ideas, have been busy trying them all


----------



## vincentc

Quote: 





vincentc said:


> Quick update on problem, the static comes from my computer. However, I can still hear it when I transfer the signal from my computer to the DAC via optical cable.
> 
> There is one thing I don't understand, both my WA6-SE and my PanAm are plug to the DAC via RCA cables but when I listen to the PanAm I cannot hear the static at all... What could be the issue?
> 
> And I just realised that when I touched the volume knob I can hear more static but when I stop touching it I can only hear the static from the computer. When I turned the computer "off" I cannot hear the static anymore, however if I touch the volume knob I can hear statics...


 
  I changed the driver tubes and I don't get any more static from touching the volume knob... So the tubes were causing that? but how?


----------



## daverich4

jc9394 said:


> Give 6f8g a try, they will need a adapter.  I like the National Union brand one.






Those are apparently a little hard to find. Would you have any suggestions on where to find some? I've checked most of the common sources as well as a general Google search. Thanks.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> Those [National Union 6F8G] are apparently a little hard to find. Would you have any suggestions on where to find some? I've checked most of the common sources as well as a general Google search. Thanks.


 
   
  I've own a few Raytheon 6F8G and those are the only ones I've heard. I wonder how they compare to the NU tubes.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I've own a few Raytheon 6F8G and those are the only ones I've heard. I wonder how they compare to the NU tubes.




NU is very similar TS BGRP but cost less if you can find then, Raytheon is almost very very good especially for the price. The Sylvania is very common and good.


----------



## GloryUprising

So I was listenin' on my WA6-SE tonight and suddenly I get some very loud POPs in my headphones (left channel only).  My wife was also in the room and said it sounded like a light blub went out.  I thought it was a one time deal and about 20 minuets later I get the popping sound but now instead of just one I get a series of pops (again on the left side).  I immediately unplugged my headphones, but I could still hear the pops from the amp itself (but I didn't notice any lighting or sparks or anything like that).
   
  I turned off the amp and swapped my driver tubes and powered back up and I immediately got a few more pops (without the headphones pluged in, so not sure which side it was), but now it has settled down.
   
  Should I be concerned?  These are NOS 6EM7s and NOS 598s with maybe 10 hours or so on them.


----------



## Silent One

Do you mean '596?' Sounds like the tubes and pops will not discriminate NOS or no. I would try another pair of drive tubes.


----------



## rosgr63

It sounds very much like a tube problem.
   
  Don't use these tubes you might cause some damage to the headphones and maybe to the amp too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

definitely sounds like a tube problem


----------



## GloryUprising

Damn I was hoping you guys would say that's normal for new tubes while the are burning in. I'm gonna give it a few more listens and hope it goes away...

You guys don't think it's the amp itself do you? This is like the 3rd pair of 6em7 (the first two pairs came with the amp).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Damn I was hoping you guys would say that's normal for new tubes while the are burning in. I'm gonna give it a few more listens and hope it goes away...
> 
> You guys don't think it's the amp itself do you? This is like the 3rd pair of 6em7 (the first two pairs came with the amp).


 
   
  Does it pops only during warm up or continues thru out?  I would not try again if it continues, it may even damage the amp.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> Does it pops only during warm up or continues thru out?  I would not try again if it continues, it may even damage the amp.




It started happening maybe 40 minutes into the listening when the problem showed up. I swapped the tubes from left to right. I didn't hear nay pops but if the popping switches channels I'll know and get new tubes. 

.... So you guys don't think it's the amp?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> It started happening maybe 40 minutes into the listening when the problem showed up. I swapped the tubes from left to right. I didn't hear nay pops but if the popping switches channels I'll know and get new tubes.
> 
> .... So you guys don't think it's the amp?


 
   
  Do you have any other tubes to try?


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> Do you have any other tubes to try?




Yes plenty, but it always seems to be the 6em7 this is the third pair to do this popping on me.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Yes plenty, but it always seems to be the 6em7 this is the third pair to do this popping on me.


 
   
   
  If other tubes are fine, your amp is fine.  Did yo have a tube tester?  Where did you get the tube from?


----------



## Thaddy

I posted this in the Lyr thread but also wanted to share my impressions with fellow Woo Audio owners.  All listening was done with RFT EZ81 rectifiers and Tung Sol 7236 power tubes, with both the HD600's and HD650's.
   
*Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 - A Frame*
  These are both from 1973 and made in the Heerlen plant in Holland.
   
  I consider this to be a great tube for the HD600's, as they have a bit more lower end punch and a super smooth and lush midrange.  Yet, they still have a great airy top end.  They are the Sennheiser of tubes!  With the HD650's, they sound a bit too warm for my liking.  They are still incredibly detailed and provide good separation, however I wouldn't consider these to be perfect all-around tubes and prefer listening to them with my HD600's.
   
  I find myself listening to these tubes when I just want to space out and listen to music.  They're so far from being fatiguing that I could spend days listening to these.
   
   
*RTC E188CC Green Label - Large "O" Getter*
  These were loaned to me by an awesome Head-Fi'er (sceleratus).  These babies are from 1965, and from what I can tell, were made in a Phillips-owned factory in Suresnes, France.  sceleratus may be able to confirm that.
   
  To my ears, these aren't quite as warm and lush as the Amperex's.  However, the first thing I noticed was the _incredible _detail and separation between each instrument.
   
  #36, a track from Disc 2 of Dave Matthews Band "Live at Red Rocks" album starts out with a really good drum solo.  It was super easy to pick out the location of each strike, yet they are accurate enough as to not drown out the delicate high hats while Carter Beauford is wailing away on the kick drum.  Hands down the best I've ever heard this track reproduced.
   
  While they sound great with the HD600's, I think they're better suited to the HD650's.  Also, unlike the Amperex Orange Globes, it took some time for me to really appreciate what they have to offer.  These tubes are truly a treat, and probably one of the best I've ever heard.
   
   
*Valvo E88CC - Large "O" Getter*
  These are from 1960 and 1964, and were also made in the Heerlen plant.
   
  These tubes seem to combine my favorite things from both the Amperex 6DJ8's and RTC E188CC's.  They are incredibly airy and delicate, yet have a touch more body and a warmer midrange than the RTC E188CC's, slightly reminiscent of the Amperex 6DJ8's.  I've always preferred the HD650's over the HD600's, however with these tubes driving my HD600's I honestly can't find a single flaw and find them to be a perfect match, just like the RTC's and the HD650's.  For those that enjoy the Sennheiser sound signature, these tubes are a must have.  After listening to the RTC's, I was bummed that I'd eventually have to return them.  The Valvo's changed that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And of course the trio, from left to right...Amperex 6DJ8 *->* RTC E188CC *->* Valvo E88CC


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If other tubes are fine, your amp is fine.  Did yo have a tube tester?  Where did you get the tube from?


 
   
  No tester, no that hardcore. lol.
   
  got the tubes from http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/  the owner is a GREAT guy and I've done lots of business with him before including purchasing a few 596s. (Yes SO, I meant 596, although I love my Senn 598s too.)
   
  Thanks, JC for the input.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> No tester, no that hardcore. lol.
> 
> got the tubes from http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/  the owner is a GREAT guy and I've done lots of business with him before including purchasing a few 596s. (Yes SO, I meant 596, although I love my Senn 598s too.)
> 
> Thanks, JC for the input.


 
   
  Agreed, I purchased 28 596 from him before and all of them are fine.  Maybe it is the tubes the amp don't' like, it the amp new or used when you get it.  I never tried 6EM7 before but love 6FD7 when I had WA6 and WA6SE


----------



## Silent One

With my _WA 6 Special Edition,_ I never had tubes pop during warm-up or other. Only when I acquired an OTL amp did I experience this with power tubes, but not drive tubes (best to my recollection).


----------



## Taliesin

is the Beyerdynamic T1s good with a WA6 with Sofia princess


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> Agreed, I purchased 28 596 from him before and all of them are fine.  Maybe it is the tubes the amp don't' like, it the amp new or used when you get it.  I never tried 6EM7 before but love 6FD7 when I had WA6 and WA6SE




Used. I'll give it another go tonight. If the problem comes up I guess it's time to look for another set. 6fd7? I'll give that a try.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Used. I'll give it another go tonight. If the problem comes up I guess it's time to look for another set. 6fd7? I'll give that a try.


 
   
  Give Jack a ring, I think there is a report of the older version that does not work well other than the normal 6EW7, 6FD7, and 6DE7 tubes.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> Give Jack a ring, I think there is a report of the older version that does not work well other than the normal 6EW7, 6FD7, and 6DE7 tubes.




I think it may be a fluke. I listened for over 2hrs yesterday without any issues. Thanks for your help!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Give Jack a ring, I think there is a report of the older version that does not work well other than the normal 6EW7, 6FD7, and 6DE7 tubes.


 
   
  Perhaps, you're thinking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





of the Mid-May 2010 model (update) for_ _the_ WA 6 Special Edition_, yes?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Perhaps, you're thinking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yes, Miss Mok.  You look awesome today.  Hey, will you be in NorCal or SoCal next week?


----------



## vincentc

Hello Everybody,
   
  I think I have a small grounding issue with my WA6-SE. When I touch the volume knob I can hear static but when I stop touching it no more static. When everything is turned "off" (Source, DAC) I can still hear the static by touching the volume knob... What should I do?


----------



## jc9394

vincentc said:


> Hello Everybody,
> 
> I think I have a small grounding issue with my WA6-SE. When I touch the volume knob I can hear static but when I stop touching it no more static. When everything is turned "off" (Source, DAC) I can still hear the static by touching the volume knob... What should I do?




Try move to another outlet or get a power filter/regenerator.


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice WA6-SE up on AGon...
   
  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/amplifiers-woo-audio-wa6-se-silver-2013-05-16-headphones-98121-seattle-wa


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just returned to NorCal last week. Here until 31 MAI, lest you or a Property Manager request my presence. Which region for you between 19-25 MAI?
   
  Lastly, Streaming radio sites ain't streaming enough K-mok! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If this keeps up my Mouse is gonna turn into a Rat.
   
  Isn't she gorgeous?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just returned to NorCal last week. Here until 31 MAI, lest you or a Property Manager request my presence. Which region for you between 19-25 MAI?
> 
> Lastly, Streaming radio sites ain't streaming enough K-mok!
> 
> ...


 
  who is she?


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> who is she?


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Mok


----------



## Silent One

You mean, no one looks at "Signatures" in posts anymore? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, gonna listen to her Sunday night... _with great delight._


----------



## solserenade

vincentc said:


> Hello Everybody,
> 
> I think I have a small grounding issue with my WA6-SE. When I touch the volume knob I can hear static but when I stop touching it no more static. When everything is turned "off" (Source, DAC) I can still hear the static by touching the volume knob... What should I do?


Have you a lamp dimmer nearby? Mine will produce your symptom if the dimmer is in use. Other possible culprit could be a wall-wart making "noise" -- Isolate your rig as much as possible, unplug *every* thing … then re-plug one at a time, testing for the static. Good luck!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice WA6-SE up on AGon...
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/amplifiers-woo-audio-wa6-se-silver-2013-05-16-headphones-98121-seattle-wa


 
   
  grr... if this was up a few weeks sooner i'd grab that GZ34. its 1950s, probably a metal base....


----------



## GloryUprising

silent one said:


> You mean, no one looks at "Signatures" in posts anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol I'm on the mobile interface so no signatures. My parents love her tho.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Lol I'm on the mobile interface so no signatures. My parents love her tho.


 
   





 Yes, the mobile interface, ok you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 got me! I quietly removed my foot from my mouth when no one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




was looking. I like her movies and concerts on disc, too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> grr... if this was up a few weeks sooner i'd grab that GZ34. its 1950s, probably a metal base....


 
   
  When I get the chance, I've got to learn more about the appreciation for this Glass.


----------



## magiccabbage

oh wow she is very prolific to say the least - i must give her a listen


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Just returned to NorCal last week. Here until 31 MAI, lest you or a Property Manager request my presence. Which region for you between 19-25 MAI?
> 
> Lastly, Streaming radio sites ain't streaming enough K-mok!
> 
> ...




SoCal, Disney Land area for a conference.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just returned to NorCal last week. Here until 31 MAI, lest you or a Property Manager request my presence. Which region for you between 19-25 MAI?
> 
> Lastly, Streaming radio sites ain't streaming enough K-mok!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  my sister is a big fan of hers so i get to listen to all of her albums.  i like most of her cantonese albums.  and yea she's pretty hot.
   

   
   
  p.s.:  i tried my mullard gz37, wa5 with hd800, her latest album.  the voice....woooooo.......very romanic, and sensual


----------



## kchew

Does anyone know of a good place to buy tubes in Hong Kong? I'll be there for a few days next week and it'll be nice to look out for bargains to expand my collection.
   
  All this talk of Karen Mok is enticing me to look for her albums when I'm there as well.


----------



## GloryUprising

kchew said:


> Does anyone know of a good place to buy tubes in Hong Kong? I'll be there for a few days next week and it'll be nice to look out for bargains to expand my collection.
> 
> All this talk of Karen Mok is enticing me to look for her albums when I'm there as well.




From my experience tubes are not cheap in HK. You are better off looking for parts upgrades like cables. 

Even the local Jaben guys did not have any tubes sellers that they would recommend highly.


----------



## kchew

Well that's a pity. But I guess that give me more time to hunt for albums and camera lenses.


----------



## jc9394

kchew said:


> Does anyone know of a good place to buy tubes in Hong Kong? I'll be there for a few days next week and it'll be nice to look out for bargains to expand my collection.
> 
> All this talk of Karen Mok is enticing me to look for her albums when I'm there as well.




http://www.wiwitubes.com/

OP helped me to get few of my GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G there, less expensive than fleabay for sure.


----------



## jc9394

kchew said:


> Well that's a pity. But I guess that give me more time to hunt for albums and camera lenses.




What are going after? I know I will be hunting for a Fuji X100s or X-Pro 1 if I ever goes to HK.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> http://www.wiwitubes.com/
> 
> OP helped me to get few of my GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G there, less expensive than fleabay for sure.


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What are going after? I know I will be hunting for a Fuji X100s or X-Pro 1 if I ever goes to HK.


 
   
  Hello, thanks for the link. Will pop by there when I have the time.
   
  I'll be looking for some Nikon manual focus primes. Would love to find a 24/2.8, 105/1.8 and/or 135/2.0. An FM3A would be nice as well. As I'll be bringing my FE2, I'll be stocking up on film as well. Local prices of film are outrageous, and bulk shipping from Amazon, Adorama or B&H is slow and I don't save that much due to shipping.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> http://www.wiwitubes.com/
> 
> OP helped me to get few of my GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G there, less expensive than fleabay for sure.




Damn never bothered look in central. I'll go there next time.


----------



## jc9394

kchew said:


> Hello, thanks for the link. Will pop by there when I have the time.
> 
> I'll be looking for some Nikon manual focus primes. Would love to find a 24/2.8, 105/1.8 and/or 135/2.0. An FM3A would be nice as well. As I'll be bringing my FE2, I'll be stocking up on film as well. Local prices of film are outrageous, and bulk shipping from Amazon, Adorama or B&H is slow and I don't save that much due to shipping.




Make sure there are no molds inside the lens, HK is very humid and not a great place to find vintage lens if not stored properly.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> http://www.wiwitubes.com/
> 
> OP helped me to get few of my GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G there, less expensive than fleabay for sure.


 
   
   
  i usually go there for tube shopping.  the clerk there is a nice guy.  i remember getting gec6080 from them before.  few years back though.


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> i usually go there for tube shopping.  the clerk there is a nice guy.  i remember getting gec6080 from them before.  few years back though.




X2, I exchanged a lot of emails with the owner there. He is always nice and answered all my questions.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Make sure there are no molds inside the lens, HK is very humid and not a great place to find vintage lens if not stored properly.


 
   
  Thanks, I will. Singapore is even more humid than Hong Kong, fungus is one of the first things we check for in a lens. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i usually go there for tube shopping.  the clerk there is a nice guy.  i remember getting gec6080 from them before.  few years back though.


 
   
  Hopefully there's a pair or two at a good price waiting for me!


----------



## nwavesailor

I have 596 rectifiers.
   
  I wondered how the Raytheon RK-60 rectifier compared to the mighty 596?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You referred me to wiwitubes some 18 months ago - owner was very helpful (like yourself) and promptly returned a series of emails.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> my sister is a big fan of hers so i get to listen to all of her albums.  i like most of her cantonese albums.  and yea she's pretty hot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Karen... on a WA5? MY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




GOODNESS.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kchew said:


> Does anyone know of a good place to buy tubes in Hong Kong? I'll be there for a few days next week and it'll be nice to look out for bargains to expand my collection.
> 
> All this talk of Karen Mok is enticing me to look for her albums when I'm there as well.


 
   
  Greetings kchew ~
   
  In addition to wiwitubes, don't forget to reach out to dannie01 as well...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Me too, I received one unexpectedly in trade a while ago and haven't really explored it's sound yet. Something about it's diminutive size forced it to the back of the drawer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  When I had those lenses my favorite was the 20/2.8, if you get a chance to compare it to the 24 you may feel the same. It's wider than the 24 and just as fast with a completely flat field.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Greetings kchew ~
> 
> In addition to wiwitubes, don't forget to reach out to dannie01 as well...




He will for sure help you spend your hard earn money if he has time.  He is quite busy lately.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Me too, I received one unexpectedly in trade a while ago and haven't really explored it's sound yet. Something about it's diminutive size forced it to the back of the drawer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Has anyone every owned or used a Nikkor f1.2 50mm lens? Those look so cool.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Has anyone every owned or used a Nikkor f1.2 50mm lens? Those look so cool.


 
  yea i have


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> yea i have


 
  Very narrow DOF. Great effects with that lens.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Has anyone every owned or used a Nikkor f1.2 50mm lens? Those look so cool.




That is the lens glued to my F3HP, I tried on D800E the result is amazing with one if the best bokeh but it is very hard to get it focus right. The DOF is so thin...


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just returned to NorCal last week. Here until 31 MAI, lest you or a Property Manager request my presence. Which region for you between 19-25 MAI?
> 
> Lastly, Streaming radio sites ain't streaming enough K-mok!
> 
> ...


 
  She's like a 6 on the global scale.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> That is the lens glued to my F3HP, I tried on D800E the result is amazing with one if the best bokeh but it is very hard to get it focus right. The DOF is so thin...


 
  I actually still own my Nikon F100. Film camera. I got it right before the digital camera age took off for 35mm-like cameras--in 2003. I'd still like to try film again. Eek! Maybe not.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *flaming_june* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> She's like a 6 on the global scale.


 
   
  For me personally, "Gorgeous" & "Fine" are two different 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





scales. Suddenly, I'm wondering what kind of home rig she invested in.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> She's like a 6 on the global scale.


 
  she is higher


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I actually still own my Nikon F100. Film camera. I got it right before the digital camera age took off for 35mm-like cameras--in 2003. I'd still like to try film again. Eek! Maybe not.




I still do film once a while, the color is much better. It also make me think before pressing the shutter.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> she is higher




She is 7.5-8 on my scale, she does looks much better...


----------



## Silent One

I wore K-Mok out on my _WA 6 Special Edition!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For those of you scoring at home, the Black cladding.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm listening to Shirley Horn. Before that I was listening to Diana Krall. It is such a beautiful SF day.


----------



## dermott

Is it possible to get a WA22 with balanced outs for preamp functionality? Does anyone have one in a dedicated 2 channel rig that wants to share comments on the sound?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dermott said:


> Is it possible to get a WA22 with balanced outs for preamp functionality? Does anyone have one in a dedicated 2 channel rig that wants to share comments on the sound?


 
   
  jack's offered a pre-amp option in the past, i dunno if he still offers it or not. it does cost extra though (100 for unbalanced out for his other amps, dont know how much it would be for the WA22)


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm listening to Shirley Horn. Before that I was listening to Diana Krall. It is such a beautiful SF day.


 
   
  Very nice image!
   
   
  Quote: 





dermott said:


> Is it possible to get a WA22 with balanced outs for preamp functionality? Does anyone have one in a dedicated 2 channel rig that wants to share comments on the sound?


 
   
  They may still do it if you ask real nice, only one way to find out. My WA22 has been converted, along with changing the SE input to a second balanced input. There are definitely some ergonomic considerations, but it sounds the same as any other WA22: great!


----------



## helljudgement

Upgraded my amp to the wa2. It really open up the vocals on my hd600. Really lush and airy works especially well with acoustic. Tried the wa6se extensively before making my decision and felt it sounded a bit more punchy and slightly larger stage than the wa2. Really tighten up the hd600 bass. Kick drums sounded fantastic with the wa6se. Overall I prefer the wa2 a smidge more than the wa6se due to its lushness. Too expensive a combo to recommend outright to hd600 fans but try if you have the chance to. Its fab.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





helljudgement said:


> Upgraded my amp to the wa2. It really open up the vocals on my hd600. Really lush and airy works especially well with acoustic. Tried the wa6se extensively before making my decision and felt it sounded a bit more punchy and slightly larger stage than the wa2. Really tighten up the hd600 bass. Kick drums sounded fantastic with the wa6se. Overall I prefer the wa2 a smidge more than the wa6se due to its lushness. Too expensive a combo to recommend outright to hd600 fans but try if you have the chance to. Its fab.


 
  +1
   
  i felt the same way with HD 650s and both amps. im curious to try out the HD 600 some day, i'm guessing the WA2 would be better for it. i found the WA2 a little too lush for the 650s. 
   
  i agree the WA6-SE has more punch and a larger soundstage vs. the WA2. the soundstage difference is very noticeable with the sophia tube.


----------



## grokit

I just realized that for perhaps the first time in decades I don't own any Sennheisers at all. Just four of their headphone hangers.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I just realized that for perhaps the first time in decades I don't own any Sennheisers at all. Just four of their headphone hangers.


 
  Time to re-load!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Custom XLR preouts can be added for $350 extra on the WA22.


----------



## daverich4

clayton sf said:


> I'm listening to Shirley Horn. Before that I was listening to Diana Krall. It is such a beautiful SF day.




Huge DK fan. Heard her play @ the Masonic in SF a number of years ago. Guys cell phone went off during the concert and everything came to an immediate, mid song, screeching halt. Diana told the guy she'd wait until he was done and then just sat there for a minute or two before resuming. Ouch.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





nwavesailor said:


> I have 596 rectifiers.
> 
> I wondered how the Raytheon RK-60 rectifier compared to the mighty 596?


 
   
  I'll be able to tell you in a few weeks, hopefully
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I just realized that for perhaps the first time in decades I don't own any Sennheisers at all. Just four of their headphone hangers.


 
   
  You should be ashamed!


----------



## dminches

clayton sf said:


> I'm listening to Shirley Horn. Before that I was listening to Diana Krall. It is such a beautiful SF day.


I really like DK but I did not like her Rag Doll album.


----------



## daverich4

dminches said:


> I really like DK but I did not like her Rag Doll album.




My impression of Rag Doll is that she was trying something new. Didn't work for me either.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I really like DK but I did not like her Rag Doll album.


 
   
  Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> My impression of Rag Doll is that she was trying something new. Didn't work for me either.


 
   
  I was listening to her _The Look of Love_ album. I love the tap of the triangle in _I Remember You_. It is so high and shimmers so well that you can almost see it.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dermott said:


> Is it possible to get a WA22 with balanced outs for preamp functionality? Does anyone have one in a dedicated 2 channel rig that wants to share comments on the sound?


 
  tell me tell me tell me where did you get that lovely perspex tray that your wa22 sits on?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I'll be able to tell you in a few weeks, hopefully


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I was listening to her _The Look of Love_ album. I love the tap of the triangle in _I Remember You_. It is so high and shimmers so well that you can almost see it.




To me, that is her best album. When ever I listen to that, I will have to bring out the best tubes combo to fully appreciate her voice.


----------



## jc9394

daverich4 said:


> Huge DK fan. Heard her play @ the Masonic in SF a number of years ago. Guys cell phone went off during the concert and everything came to an immediate, mid song, screeching halt. Diana told the guy she'd wait until he was done and then just sat there for a minute or two before resuming. Ouch.




Still remember her performance at Montreal, I missed her in Boston couple years ago.


----------



## Frank I

For those interested my review of the WA7 is located http://dagogo.com/woo-audio-wa7-fireflies-dac-headphone-amplifier-review


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> For those interested my review of the WA7 is located http://dagogo.com/woo-audio-wa7-fireflies-dac-headphone-amplifier-review


 
  thanks frank ill check it out


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice review Frank! Seems Woo has another winner on their hands.


----------



## Frank I

Thanks Eric


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> He will for sure help you spend your hard earn money if he has time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Danny has been away for awhile.  how's he doing lately?


----------



## atomicbob

@Frank: very nice review. T90+WA7 combo is downright dangerous. I spend far too much time enjoying my music library when I should be doing other household tasks. For a change up I'll sub either HD800 or HE-500 for an alternate but equally satisfying experience. The T90 doesn't work for some ears, but for those that it does, the WA7 allow them to sound stellar.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> @Frank: very nice review. T90+WA7 combo is downright dangerous. I spend far too much time enjoying my music library when I should be doing other household tasks. For a change up I'll sub either HD800 or HE-500 for an alternate but equally satisfying experience. The T90 doesn't work for some ears, but for those that it does, the WA7 allow them to sound stellar.


 
  The T90 and the WA7 have a very special synergy. They are made for each other.


----------



## regular.guy

Whew!  Buring in an amp for 500 hours is a long time, darned black gate caps!  This thing is quite an upgrade from my ASL mg-head OTL III.  Anyhow, looking for tube recommendations.  After combing head-fi, I have come up with a short list.  Man, Head-fi is a great resource.  I could use a little more deep bass and top end extension.  The rectifiers will be either the sophia 247b or the eml 5u4g meshies.  There have been reports of fair quality control on the 596's. For the driver tubes the Psvane cv181 t2's look inviting.  For the 300b's, goodness they are expensive, the sophia mesh or the eml 300b's look good.  I would rather not get the psvane 300b's as they lack the inviting glow of the mesh tubes.  Any comments?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The T90 and the WA7 have a very special synergy. They are made for each other.


 
   
  kinda like WA2/T1?


----------



## jc9394

regular.guy said:


> Whew!  Buring in an amp for 500 hours is a long time, darned black gate caps!  This thing is quite an upgrade from my ASL mg-head OTL III.  Anyhow, looking for tube recommendations.  After combing head-fi, I have come up with a short list.  Man, Head-fi is a great resource.  I could use a little more deep bass and top end extension.  The rectifiers will be either the sophia 247b or the eml 5u4g meshies.  There have been reports of fair quality control on the 596's. For the driver tubes the Psvane cv181 t2's look inviting.  For the 300b's, goodness they are expensive, the sophia mesh or the eml 300b's look good.  I would rather not get the psvane 300b's as they lack the inviting glow of the mesh tubes.  Any comments?




Get both EML 5U4G and 300B mesh, EAT 300B is better but also cost more. Driver tube, the Brimar CV1988 of TS BGRP.


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> Danny has been away for awhile.  how's he doing lately?




He is great the last time I exchanged pm with him. He changed job, much more traveling now.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh I've definitely re-loaded, just not with Sennheisers... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> You should be ashamed!


 
   
  Haha maybe a Colorflied HD800, wouldn't mind acquiring a fresh pair at some point but there quite a few things ahead of it on the old wish list...


----------



## regular.guy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Get both EML 5U4G and 300B mesh, EAT 300B is better but also cost more. Driver tube, the Brimar CV1988 of TS BGRP.


 
  Thanks!  Wow, the EAT's are expensive! I have never seen anyone, in all my hours surfing head-fi rate the Genalex golden Lion 300b's in the wa5, any comments?.  They are available on TubeDepot for $330.  My headphones are the Sennie HD 650's, which I think they are a little thin and veiled.  I would like to upgrade the 'phones too, open type.  The HD 800's have the reputation of being "thin", the LCD 2 of being bass master's, but a little dark.  Many peeps state the HE-6 is just "sublime" with the wa5, especially through the K1000 jack. My Ultrasone pro-900's don't seem to jive with the wa5, but go well with less expensive amps (ie headphone out on my macbook), and they hurt the top of my head after a while. Choices, choices. Deep bass please.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .  Hopefully with more experience with my wa5, I will be able to return the advice favors to ya'll.   I haven't listened to my main rig since I got the wa5, my Thiels feel neglected (great for my wife lately, as the master bedroom is right next to my audio room).
  Silent one, I look forward to seeing your next avatar.


----------



## Silent One

Just so you know, regular.guy, if you ever see me using an ALL BLACK avatar, I'm temporarily protesting, on strike or seeking solitude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My inability to buy a Black WA5 can bring out this avatar as well.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Thanks!  Wow, the EAT's are expensive! I have never seen anyone, in all my hours surfing head-fi rate the Genalex golden Lion 300b's in the wa5, any comments?.  They are available on TubeDepot for $330.  My headphones are the Sennie HD 650's, which I think they are a little thin and veiled.  I would like to upgrade the 'phones too, open type.  The HD 800's have the reputation of being "thin", the LCD 2 of being bass master's, but a little dark.  Many peeps state the HE-6 is just "sublime" with the wa5, especially through the K1000 jack. My Ultrasone pro-900's don't seem to jive with the wa5, but go well with less expensive amps (ie headphone out on my macbook), and they hurt the top of my head after a while. Choices, choices. Deep bass please.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  the golden lion, never tried on my wa5 but i heard it from other spearker amps.  not really think or thick.  very average.  sure better than the stock tubes. 
  HD650, a little thin.... what are your tubes combination? 
  and ultrasone, they hate woo, or wa5 at least.  i tried my hfi-780, signature pro and ed8.  never sound good at all.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dminches said:


> I really like DK but I did not like her Rag Doll album.


 
  I do love the cover art!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just so you know, regular.guy, if you ever see me using an ALL BLACK avatar, I'm temporarily protesting, on strike or seeking solitude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  imagine, having an evening with wa5 and karen mok.......


----------



## fhuang

which headphones do you guys prefer for female vocals with woo?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I do love the cover art!


 
   
  x2 ...
   
  Now that's sexy! Sexy is as sexy does.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> x2 ...
> 
> Now that's sexy! Sexy is as sexy does.


 
  That Elvis Costello is one lucky man.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> That Elvis Costello is one lucky man.


 

 How in the world do nerdy looking guys get some the most beautiful women? Piano lessons help, I guess.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How in the world do nerdy looking guys get some the most beautiful women? Piano lessons help, I guess.


 
  Sing and play guitar I guess.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> which headphones do you guys prefer for female vocals with woo?


 
   
  Zeus Cu29 4x22awg xlr cup-to-adapter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 D7000.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Agreed, I purchased 28 596 from him before and all of them are fine.  Maybe it is the tubes the amp don't' like, it the amp new or used when you get it.  I never tried 6EM7 before but love 6FD7 when I had WA6 and WA6SE


 
Ok, so I got another click on the LEFT channel AGAIN! (I swapped the power tubes so if it was a tube, I'm assuming it should have been the right side) so part of me is thinking it's the low impedance side headphone plug maybe loose (sometimes the contacts don't work and needs to be 'jiggled' or reseated).  So my next test is to listen to to the high impedance jack....
   
That being said, I was looking to try 6FD7, but noticed that "WA6-SE shipped prior April 17, 2010 is not compatible." A anyone have any idea how to figure out when my amp was shipped?  I tried asking Jack, but he said he needed the original owner's name but my amp has had a few owners prior to me and that information seems to be lost to time.
   
The SN is S0509046 and has blackgate caps and goldpoint stepped pot.
   
Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

My _WooAudio Black WA 6 Special Edition_ shipped appx 5 or 6 July, 2010. Let me see if I can find the serial number. I recorded it but all my written records/journals are in storage.
   
  Don't fret... I've another 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 idea.


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> which headphones do you guys prefer for female vocals with woo?




I like HD800 and AT AD2000 (especially Asian femal vocal).


----------



## kchew

The AD2000 is my favourite with female vocals, but I find it very fussy with tubes on my WA22. Only a few tube combinations work well with it, whereas the HD800 is happy with almost anything.
   
  On the earlier subject of the Nikon 50mm f/1.2, I brought mine and my D800E to a local audio meet last month. Bokeh is awesome, but the razor-thin depth of field meant quite a lot of misfocused pictures. Some samples:


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ooooh lots of woos there


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





kchew said:


> The AD2000 is my favourite with female vocals, but I find it very fussy with tubes on my WA22. Only a few tube combinations work well with it, whereas the HD800 is happy with almost anything.
> 
> On the earlier subject of the Nikon 50mm f/1.2, I brought mine and my D800E to a local audio meet last month. Bokeh is awesome, but the razor-thin depth of field meant quite a lot of misfocused pictures. Some samples:


 
   
   
  The only tube combo on WA22 that I love with AD2000 are the GEC 6AS7G, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and EML 274B.
   
  D800E with 50 f1.2 is a killer combo, I do have a lot of missed focus too.  Did you tried 85 f/1.4G  shooting tube glows on wide open?


----------



## kchew

Lots of Woos? There was a row of Woos there!
   
   

   
   
  Not pictured were the WES, WA5 and WA7. Don't ask me for impressions of all the Woo amps though as I only listened to the WA5 and WES with the SR-009. And I must say I'm keeping a tight eye on my wallet.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The only tube combo on WA22 that I love with AD2000 are the GEC 6AS7G, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and EML 274B.
> 
> D800E with 50 f1.2 is a killer combo, I do have a lot of missed focus too.  Did you tried 85 f/1.4G  shooting tube glows on wide open?


 
   
  I don't have any 85mm primes. Maybe I'll bring out my 105/2.5 one day.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I don't have any 85mm primes. Maybe I'll bring out my 105/2.5 one day.


 
   
  perfect time to get the 85 f/1.8G, it is very very sharp on D800E.


----------



## kchew

That's something I hadn't considered. I'll keep an eye out for one when I'm in Hong Kong.


----------



## solserenade

kchew said:


> Lots of Woos? There was a row of Woos there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Holy cow! I feel like I need a shower … Or a cigarette, or something, after looking at that photo.


----------



## daverich4

I just received a pair of Chatham 2399 tubes from Vacuumtubes.net and one of them has 4 or 5 tiny glass shards rolling around inside it. I don't see any obvious places that they might have come from so I called to ask if that meant the tube was bad or not. The guy I talked to said as long as they're not metal (they're not) it shouldn't be a problem. I asked if he thought there was a possibility of damaging my WA22 and he said to put the tubes in and turn it on briefly. He told me it wasn't uncommon for old tubes to be in that condition but that he would replace the tube if there was a problem with it. I'm new enough at this to be a little concerned about using my amp as a tube tester but if what he says about the glass shards is true then I've learned something. Do any of you with more experience than me have some suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## Ultrainferno

A bit of glass inside the bulb shouldn't be any problem. Just fire it up and hear


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ive had tubes with small glass pieces inside, normally isn't a problem.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> A bit of glass inside the bulb shouldn't be any problem. Just fire it up and hear


 

 I need to get the WA5


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I need to get the WA5


 

 Yes you do. Bring it in August, ok?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Yes you do. Bring it in August, ok?


 
   
  Then I've got to buy a second backpack. Oh, hail, why don't I just move in.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I need to get the WA5


 
   
  Yes, I'll need to hear it... _in any colour._


----------



## Clayton SF

I just looked at the Woo site. The WA5 has square feet (or square-ish feet). Cool. And I already own the tubes that it uses. And it is also a speaker amp! Let me see....


----------



## Silent One

Still haven't decided if I'll go WA5 mono blocks this summer (Jul/Aug)


----------



## daverich4

ultrainferno said:


> A bit of glass inside the bulb shouldn't be any problem. Just fire it up and hear




Thanks for the help. I put them in and didn't get any bad things out of the amp when I turned it on. No noise when I turned the volume up. Listened to Diana Krall / Peel Me a Grape just as a check and all was well so I guess I'll let them burn in for awhile before sitting down for a real listen. Thanks again.


----------



## GrindingThud

I don't see these on their website....new?



silent one said:


> Still haven't decided if I'll go WA5 mono blocks this summer (Jul/Aug)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I don't see these on their website....new?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not new, they have been doing custom configurations for a while but only display standard offerings on their website. Can build the WA5 using the '45' tube as well.
   
  I'm not sure about the rest of my valued Woozies, but when I go out to eat and don't see what I want on the menu, _"Would you kindly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





make me a..." _


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Ok, so I got another click on the LEFT channel AGAIN! (I swapped the power tubes so if it was a tube, I'm assuming it should have been the right side) so part of me is thinking it's the low impedance side headphone plug maybe loose (sometimes the contacts don't work and needs to be 'jiggled' or reseated).  So my next test is to listen to to the high impedance jack....
> 
> That being said, I was looking to try 6FD7, but noticed that "WA6-SE shipped prior April 17, 2010 is not compatible." A anyone have any idea how to figure out when my amp was shipped?  I tried asking Jack, but he said he needed the original owner's name but my amp has had a few owners prior to me and that information seems to be lost to time.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> My _WooAudio Black WA 6 Special Edition_ shipped appx 5 or 6 July, 2010. Let me see if I can find the serial number. I recorded it but all my written records/journals are in storage.
> 
> Don't fret... I've another
> 
> ...


 
   
  So bad news, I definitely think one of the 6EM7s are causing the popping the channel switched to the right side hard core...  More bad news; my amp is not compatible with 6FD7.
   
  So I just rolled back in the stock 6DE7 in a sulking manner and started up some Hotel California....and bam, I'm tapping my toes and bopping my head.  And I thought to myself "damn, these are pretty good too" and decided to stop chasing the last 5% and just enjoy the amp.... for now. =x


----------



## Silent One




----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not new, they have been doing custom configurations for a while but only display standard offerings on their website. Can build the WA5 using the '45' tube as well.
> 
> I'm not sure about the rest of my valued Woozies, but when I go out to eat and don't see what I want on the menu, _"Would you kindly
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  so you want to go with 45 on your wa5?  or can jack make you with 2a3?  i hate too much options sometimes.....
   
   
  and when i go to eat/shop i usually go for the best value, especially when i'm not sure what to get


----------



## regular.guy

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> the golden lion, never tried on my wa5 but i heard it from other spearker amps.  not really think or thick.  very average.  sure better than the stock tubes.
> HD650, a little thin.... what are your tubes combination?
> and ultrasone, they hate woo, or wa5 at least.  i tried my hfi-780, signature pro and ed8.  never sound good at all.


 
  I have the stock tube combination in my wa5, hopefully this is the reason the system sounds thin.  Nobody seems to like the Ultrasone brand with wa5, I agree.   I am about to pull the trigger on the EML 300b or the Sophia mesh 300b power tubes and the EML mesh 5u4g or the Sophia 247b mesh as the rectifiers.  I need a cheaper hobby.  Maybe I should take up jogging.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Oh, Karen Mok is quite a sweetie, and Diana Krall too!


----------



## GrindingThud

That's what I did for my 6SN7 adapters...just asked. After verifying that's what I really wanted, they took the order. Great customer communication experience in my book. Can't wait until I get them. Hmmm, those monos sure look sweet. 



silent one said:


> ...but when I go out to eat and don't see what I want on the menu, _"Would you kindly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> so you want to go with 45 on your wa5?  or can jack make you with 2a3?  i hate too much options sometimes.....
> 
> 
> and when i go to eat/shop i usually go for the best value, especially when i'm not sure what to get


 
   
  At this writing (1821 hrs in California...) I remain undecided: WA5, WA5 mono blocks or WA5/45. The only thing for certain is whatever drops on the porch will be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Black. The 2A3 is something WA could set you up with.
   
  Usually, when moderately hungry I get adventurous. Starving? I play it safe... or safer with unknown choices.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> I have the stock tube combination in my wa5, hopefully this is the reason the system sounds thin.  Nobody seems to like the Ultrasone brand with wa5, I agree.   I am about to pull the trigger on the EML 300b or the Sophia mesh 300b power tubes and the EML mesh 5u4g or the Sophia 247b mesh as the rectifiers.  I need a cheaper hobby.  Maybe I should take up jogging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Though, I've not heard the '5', I'm with jc9394. If you wanna make it hop, _then get some glass... _


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Though, I've not heard the '5', I'm with jc9394. If you wanna make it hop, _then get some glass... _




EML all the way, not too impress with Sofia on the 5. LA is nice and warm.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> EML all the way, not too impress with Sofia on the 5. LA is nice and warm.


 
   
  As a former college student-worker @ _The House of Mickey Mouse_, welcome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Have you tried the EML 300B-XLS series?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As a former college student-worker @ _The House of Mickey Mouse_, welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, traffic is not bad at this time...
   
  just the regular one, not the XLS series.  my friend does not want to pay for it.


----------



## JonasRas

That moment where FedEx tries to deliver your WA6, but you're not at home...


----------



## magiccabbage

i know what you mean i wan not at home when my tubes came today!


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> So bad news, I definitely think one of the 6EM7s are causing the popping the channel switched to the right side hard core...  More bad news; my amp is not compatible with 6FD7.
> 
> So I just rolled back in the stock 6DE7 in a sulking manner and started up some Hotel California....and bam, I'm tapping my toes and bopping my head.  And I thought to myself "damn, these are pretty good too" and decided to stop chasing the last 5% and just enjoy the amp.... for now. =x


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   
  So yea, that didn't last long, on a whim I started searching for 6GL7s and found some listed for what seems like a good price.  I contact the sellers and they are all out of stock! =X
   
  So natrually that makes me want to look HARDER. =x
   
  Anyone got a good lead on where I can get a matched pair of 6GL7s?  And what's a 'good' price?  Conversely, if anyone here has a pair they are willing to let go, PM me! =D
   
  Thanks!


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My pusher is Jim McShane http://www.mcshanedesign.net/tubes.htm  I didn't see any on his website and he doesn't do phone calls.  Email him to see if he might have a matched pair.  He's reasonable, knowledgeable and all around good tube guy and he believes in testing before shipping.


----------



## GloryUprising

I spoke to my tube guy, Jim Cross.  Even though I am out of warranty (he warrants for 60 days) he's gonna send me a NEW SET (as a warranty replacement aka free, not even shipping) and told me to just toss out the bad one and keep the other for a non-matched spare.
   
  A classy guy who I totally recommend for all tube needs!
   
  If you ever need him: http://vacuumtubesinc.com/


----------



## Silent One

What a story!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> At this writing (1821 hrs in California...) I remain undecided: WA5, WA5 mono blocks or WA5/45. The only thing for certain is whatever drops on the porch will be
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  i thought a black one is cool and everything but when i get a chance to see a real one, wa5 or other woo, i didn't quiet like it/them because, the woo uses silver screws and you can see them from the chassis.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> I have the stock tube combination in my wa5, hopefully this is the reason the system sounds thin.  Nobody seems to like the Ultrasone brand with wa5, I agree.   I am about to pull the trigger on the EML 300b or the Sophia mesh 300b power tubes and the EML mesh 5u4g or the Sophia 247b mesh as the rectifiers.  I need a cheaper hobby.  Maybe I should take up jogging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  since you're still on stock tubes.  get the golden lions.  it's not that bad.  you don't need to go from stock tubes to the better tubes(if not the best) but then again, i thought the stock ain't that bad neither.  sure i can't go back to stock tubes but i bet a stock tubed wa5 still sound better than, let say a wa2 with fancy tubes(no dis to wa2 users).


----------



## Magiv9

Really o.0
Stock tube wa5 sounds better than a wa2 upgraded tubes? 
Makes me so look forward to an upgrade... in a few years of course. 

But yeah, I've been listening to stock tubes for awhile, sounds good and everything, but I can't go back to them after switching to upgrade tubes. 
There's an extra layer where you can hear the piano behind the vocals whereas the stock tube just blends in.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i thought a black one is cool and everything but when i get a chance to see a real one, wa5 or other woo, i didn't quiet like it/them because, the woo uses silver screws and you can see them from the chassis.


 
   
  Maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it was all the late-night and overnight sessions with my Woo. In low to no lighting, no less. But, I recall my screws being Black.


----------



## jc9394

magiv9 said:


> Really o.0
> Stock tube wa5 sounds better than a wa2 upgraded tubes?
> Makes me so look forward to an upgrade... in a few years of course.
> 
> ...




Stock WA5 is even better than my WA22. :mad:


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Maybe
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Miss Mok, you are looking fine today. My buddy's WA5 have black screw, we did confirmed with Jack before ordering. His house is mostly black and white.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> At this writing (1821 hrs in California...) I remain undecided: WA5, WA5 mono blocks or WA5/45. The only thing for certain is whatever drops on the porch will be
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Whatever drop on your porch other than stock, I will invite myself over.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Why, thank you ever so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 kindly. Not sure about fhuang's experience with seeing Silver screws on a Black Woo. If WooAudio sent me a Black WA5 with Silver screws as a gift, I'd promptly return it with a "Thank you" note. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or go to Home Depot and buy a can of "Semi-flat/gloss Black" or somethin'...


----------



## magiccabbage

just got my tubes today. i ordered tung sol 5998 only to find when i opened the box they were chatham 2399! i specifically said not to put in an equivalent pair. i have heard people say this is the same tube just branded differently. could you guys help me out here. is it the same tube or not? has anyone heard it and the 5998 for comparisons? vacuumtubes.net should of explained this to me before taking my money i mean when you get a tube that does not match up with what you ordered that is dodgy right?


----------



## GrindingThud

They are the same....no worries.  Would you have felt the same if they were Western Electric 421A?
  I think most on this and the 6AS7G rollers forum have ordered from them and been pleasantly suprised with receiving that variant.
    
   
  Quote:


magiccabbage said:


> just got my tubes today. i ordered tung sol 5998 only to find when i opened the box they were chatham 2399! i specifically said not to put in an equivalent pair. i have heard people say this is the same tube just branded differently. could you guys help me out here. is it the same tube or not? has anyone heard it and the 5998 for comparisons? vacuumtubes.net should of explained this to me before taking my money i mean when you get a tube that does not match up with what you ordered that is dodgy right?


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's funny (well actually it's not anymore) how often this same thing is discussed


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> They are the same....no worries.  Would you have felt the same if they were Western Electric 421A?
> I think most on this and the 6AS7G rollers forum have ordered from them and been pleasantly suprised with receiving that variant.


 
  Whew - thank god for that! i think they charge extra for the 421A and now its listening time. Jesus i nearly took a heart attack there.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> It's funny (well actually it's not anymore) how often this same thing is discussed


 
  i haven't come across this before in the thread but then again i haven't read the 1706 pages on it. vacuumtubes.net could of told me before hand. maybe the expected me to know this already but i am a greenhorn unfortunately! i am going to have to apologies to dale for sending him an angry email .................... oops.


----------



## Ultrainferno

The 2399 are very good but we're still not 100% sure they're the same, maybe they were specially selected because they were better or maybe it's the other way around. I personally think there's a reason for them being called 2399 and not 5998, we'll probably never know what happened 60 years ago....
   
  But in any case you're good. I've sold about 50 of these 2399 already and no one complained


----------



## magiccabbage

i have a question - i was wondering if anyone came across this problem before? i put the 5998s in my wa2 and noticed a slight ping in the right cup of the headphones. to make sure it was the tube and not the amp i switched the right and left power tubes and the ping went from being in the right cup to the left. it didnt bother me too much because i thought maybe it just needs to be burned in but then there was a really load pop from the tube that nearly deafened me. should i be worried?


----------



## Frank I

Sounds like you have a bad tube. Did you just get the tubes? If so return them and do not take a change because you could damage the amplifier.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Sounds like you have a bad tube. Did you just get the tubes? If so return them and do not take a change because you could damage the amplifier.


 
  it only popped once but the ringing is still there when i tap the table. should there be ringing? i dont know wheter to send them back or not.


----------



## magiccabbage

and yea i just got them


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> it only popped once but the ringing is still there when i tap the table. should there be ringing? i dont know wheter to send them back or not.


 
  I would send them back. That tube is not operating properly and will more than likely fail and end up costing you more than the tube if it does.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I would send them back. That tube is not operating properly and will more than likely fail and end up costing you more than the tube if it does.


 
  i guess i will have to bite the bullet and send it back so which is really annoying because i literally just got them today. thanks for your help frank - much appreciated.


----------



## Frank I

Your welcome. Just get them replaced. If you had a tube tester you amy be able to determine the proble. Did you buy these from a dealer or ebay. If you got them on Ebay many times the seller does not test the tubes properly. I also do not own a tube tester and it can be a problem as I have bought stuff from ebay that was bad and had to be sent back I don't like using my amps for a tube tester so I try to source from reputable vendors .  Those tubes are getting expensive too. I need to find a pair as I am having Glenn build me an OTL/preamp for the Taboo MK111. Glenn recommended the Russian 6N13 which are inexpensive tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Your welcome. Just get them replaced. If you had a tube tester you amy be able to determine the proble. Did you buy these from a dealer or ebay. If you got them on Ebay many times the seller does not test the tubes properly. I also do not own a tube tester and it can be a problem as I have bought stuff from ebay that was bad and had to be sent back I don't like using my amps for a tube tester so I try to source from reputable vendors .  Those tubes are getting expensive too. I need to find a pair as I am having Glenn build me an OTL/preamp for the Taboo MK111. Glenn recommended the Russian 6N13 which are inexpensive tubes.


 
  i got them from vacuumtubes.net and am waiting on a reply


----------



## Frank I

I have purchased tubes from them that were not as advertised in the past and they had to be sent back. They should compensate you for the return shipping also. If you paid with paypal I would demand they offer you return shipping a the tubes are defective and if they are telling you they are matched they should both be replaced and shipping covered. If they wont pay the shipping file a claim.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I have purchased tubes from them that were not as advertised in the past and they had to be sent back. They should compensate you for the return shipping also. If you paid with paypal I would demand they offer you return shipping a the tubes are defective and if they are telling you they are matched they should both be replaced and shipping covered. If they wont pay the shipping file a claim.


 
  I will do. hopefully they will be nice about it. I don't want the headache of having to chase people. Thank god for headfi and people like you frank. I would have kept the tubes and probably damaged the amp if not for this site.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I have purchased tubes from them that were not as advertised in the past and they had to be sent back. They should compensate you for the return shipping also. If you paid with paypal I would demand they offer you return shipping a the tubes are defective and if they are telling you they are matched they should both be replaced and shipping covered. If they wont pay the shipping file a claim.


 
  i forgot to say that the ping is not there all the time while im listening it only happens when i tap the table or put a cup or bowl on the table. then when i heard the pop i presumed it was related to the pinging. the tube should not be picking up sound when i tap the table top right?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> i forgot to say that the ping is not there all the time while im listening it only happens when i tap the table or put a cup or bowl on the table. then when i heard the pop i presumed it was related to the pinging. the tube should not be picking up sound when i tap the table top right?


 

 Unfortunately it does happen to some tubes. Even to very good NOS tubes.
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphonics


----------



## magiccabbage

so should i send it back or be content that it probably wont do damage to the amp?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> so should i send it back or be content that it probably wont do damage to the amp?


 

 Unless the seller tests for microphonics chances are that if you exchange the tube you may get a replacement that is equally as microphonic (less or more). You may want to stop tapping the table or stop placing things on the table that will cause unnecessary vibrations while you're listening to your amp--or buy tube dampers which may or may not lessen the pinging. I don't use dampers myself.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Unless the seller tests for microphonics chances are that if you exchange the tube you may get a replacement that is equally as microphonic (less or more). You may want to stop tapping the table or stop placing things on the table that will cause unnecessary vibrations while you're listening to your amp--or buy tube dampers which may or may not lessen the pinging. I don't use dampers myself.


 
  Thanks for the info and sorry for taking up thread talk on noobiness. i was very worried there!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Thanks for the info and sorry for taking up thread talk on noobiness. i was very worried there!


 

 Not to worry. I was once a noob myself. And in certain circles on Head-Fi, I still am! We help each other to un-noobibfy, unmystify, and unwind so that we can enjoy the music!


----------



## jc9394

It is normal for some tubes to ping until it reach the right operating temp or burn it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

But do try not to "make" the tube make sound by tapping it putting it on a table that will get lots of vibrations, shocks. that's what I think & do anyway


----------



## Silent One

My Woo never took me on a Submarine ride. "Pinging" is something I only experienced with power tubes, not recs or drive tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> The 2399 are very good but we're still not 100% sure they're the same, maybe they were specially selected because they were better or maybe it's the other way around. I personally think there's a reason for them being called 2399 and not 5998, we'll probably never know what happened 60 years ago....
> 
> But in any case you're good. I've sold about 50 of these 2399 already and no one complained


 

   
  i think they're the same, at least they sounded the same to me. also both my 5998 and 2399 have the same construction, and the same number on the base "3002399"
   
   
   
  the popping on warm up happens to me with some tubes, including 5998s, not an issue. but the ringing shouldn't be there, you just got a microphonic tube, you can use tube dampers, isolate the amp, or just ask for a replacement. the tube shouldn't hurt the amp or anything. im not entirely sure if it would affect tube life though, i know alot of tubes tend to be microphonic (like my RCA 6AS7G, although after warming up they are ok)


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i think they're the same, at least they sounded the same to me. also both my 5998 and 2399 have the same construction, and the same number on the base "3002399"
> 
> 
> 
> the popping on warm up happens to me with some tubes, including 5998s, not an issue. but the ringing shouldn't be there, you just got a microphonic tube, you can use tube dampers, isolate the amp, or just ask for a replacement. the tube shouldn't hurt the amp or anything. im not entirely sure if it would affect tube life though, i know alot of tubes tend to be microphonic (like my RCA 6AS7G, although after warming up they are ok)


 
  thank god - i think im ok now. it only happens if i put a cup down or something hits off the desk. i might try those dampers all the same


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is normal for some tubes to ping until it reach the right operating temp or burn it.


 
  Loud Pops are not normal. he heard a loud popping noise  and said it was deafening. That is surely a defective tube plus the vendor he bought it form is not the most reliable and a few people here have returned tubes to them. I and Baka1969 got a few bad tubes from that vendor so its not unusual to get poor quality from there,


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Loud Pops are not normal. he heard a loud popping noise  and said it was deafening. That is surely a defective tube plus the vendor he bought it form is not the most reliable and a few people here have returned tubes to them. I and Baka1969 got a few bad tubes from that vendor so its not unusual to get poor quality from there,


 
  yes the pop was extremely load when it happened. it has not happened since - i might send them back just in case. im kind of in 2 halves about it. also its taking them ages to reply to my email.


----------



## GloryUprising

magiccabbage said:


> yes the pop was extremely load when it happened. it has not happened since - i might send them back just in case. im kind of in 2 halves about it. also its taking them ages to reply to my email.




Can you call them?


----------



## Silent One

Our member shows Ireland as their location. Dale is good to work with and I believe he'll help sort this purchase out.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Loud Pops are not normal. he heard a loud popping noise  and said it was deafening. That is surely a defective tube plus the vendor he bought it form is not the most reliable and a few people here have returned tubes to them. I and Baka1969 got a few bad tubes from that vendor so its not unusual to get poor quality from there,


 
  I agree that a soft pings is normal like some of the my other tubes that I used but a loud pop is not. The 5998 type of tube tend to have a large inrush current when ever that tube pings or pops. I think that it is important to have a quiet 5998 tube on hand.


----------



## rosgr63

Some 5998's pop on start up and can damage the headphones.
   
  After that they may run fine for sometime but it can happen again.


----------



## Silent One

A few of the '5998' accounts I've heard lately are frightening.


----------



## fhuang

i remember there's no ping for those small 6080 but there more ping for some large/larger tubes like 6sj7 or 300b


----------



## fhuang

anybody try 5ar4?  i know it's different than 5u4g but the menu says it's compatible


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> anybody try 5ar4?  i know it's different than 5u4g but the menu says it's compatible


 
   
  yes, 5ar4 is same as gz34. don't quote me on this but i have tried gz34 on wa22 and it is really really good.


----------



## GrindingThud

Gentle pings, dinks, snicks, and creaks can be heard during warmup of some tubes...including the 5998. During warmup, the metal parts in the tube expand and shift around, making noise. This is normal and stops after a few minutes. Microphonics is the tube being sensitive to vibration that can lead to oscillations or conducted resonance that can be heard. Isolastion and damping helps minimize microphonics....it can come and go out of the blue and can happen any time with any tube. Loud deafening pop, lightning bolt, or zap is usually an arc inside the tube caused by an object lodged in the grid (flake of getter dust), excess gas, low vacuum, or damaged grid. Many times it happens once on a nos tube that has not been used in a long time and then never again. Many of us have experienced this in the Woo line with high transconductance tubes. I don't know if its a design thing or just an old tube thing, but it sucks when it happens. Because these are pretty expensive tubes, I'd send the bad one back and get another. If it was an ebay special, I'd let it warm up for a few hours with no load and give it a second chance with some skullcandys. Of mine that have arced, most were 7236. I let all my new tubes cook for a half hour with no load since my encounter with this.


----------



## Clayton SF

<Eek! Quote removed.> Thanks, grokit 
   
  I own both the Mullard GZ34 and Amperex 5AR4. The internal structure and the external shape of the tube look identical to me.


----------



## grokit

He asked you not to quote him!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





grokit said:


> He asked you not to quote him!


----------



## fhuang

from the shop i go, i think 5ar4 is cheaper so that's good


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Can you call them?


 
  Im in Ireland so that would be awkward but i will if i have to. They have not got back to me yet via email 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Hopefully they will tomorrow. I have been listening for the last few hours and they are fine i really want to keep them because Ireland to america shipping is a pain but if they are willing to take them back and replace them then i will send them to be on the safe side. I just keep thinking these could pop again and damage my phone or the amp.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





grokit said:


> He asked you not to quote him!


 
   
  LMAO


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> He asked you not to quote him!


 
  Quote:


fhuang said:


>


 
  Quote:


jc9394 said:


> LMAO


 
  They're all gonna laugh at you!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> Quote:
> They're all gonna laugh at you!




:mad:


----------



## solserenade

grindingthud said:


> Gentle pings, dinks, snicks, and creaks can be heard during warmup of some tubes...including the 5998. *During warmup, the metal parts in the tube expand and shift around, making noise.* This is normal and stops after a few minutes. Microphonics is the tube being sensitive to vibration that can lead to oscillations or conducted resonance that can be heard. Isolastion and damping helps minimize microphonics....it can come and go out of the blue and can happen any time with any tube. Loud deafening pop, lightning bolt, or zap is usually an arc inside the tube caused by an object lodged in the grid (flake of getter dust), excess gas, low vacuum, or damaged grid. Many times it happens once on a nos tube that has not been used in a long time and then never again. Many of us have experienced this in the Woo line with high transconductance tubes. I don't know if its a design thing or just an old tube thing, but it sucks when it happens. Because these are pretty expensive tubes, I'd send the bad one back and get another. If it was an ebay special, I'd let it warm up for a few hours with no load and give it a second chance with some skullcandys. Of mine that have arced, most were 7236. I let all my new tubes cook for a half hour with no load since my encounter with this.


 

Thank you for the helpful and accurate information.

There was previously some crazy-talk with microphonics and a ground issue being IMO confused with one another. No offense of course anyone. 

 By the way, I just love the tiny tiny ping that I hear if I listen closely to the rectifier upon start-up. (At around 60 seconds) It is like an audible, (message) "check, almost ready to go!"


----------



## atomicbob

ultrainferno said:


> The 2399 are very good but we're still not 100% sure they're the same, maybe they were specially selected because they were better or maybe it's the other way around. I personally think there's a reason for them being called 2399 and not 5998, we'll probably never know what happened 60 years ago....
> 
> But in any case you're good. I've sold about 50 of these 2399 already and no one complained




Well of the 4 2399s I received, 3 sound like the 5998s I have. Very happy with those. The fourth has a problem. It POPS LOUDLY! I think it is having occasional dialectic flashovers. Makes the headphone sound like a .22 starter pistol. Glad the cans weren't on my head during initial testing. That is one of the risks taken when playing with vintage tubes and one of the reasons I ordered several.


----------



## Silent One

I'd often prep my Woo with two to four hour warm-ups... in pure dirty Class-A mode.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd often prep my Woo with two to four hour warm-ups... in pure dirty Class-A mode.


 

 Wow, that's impressive. I never prep. After working for 8 hours in an office building in SF I just don't have the time to prep when I get home. Okay. I flip the switch to the ON position when I enter the room. Go to the kitchen and pour myself a beverage. Return to my listening room. Then kick back and feel the music. My ears are probably not as acute as yours. Okay, perhaps a little more pointed.


----------



## atomicbob

Also good to use cheap cans as a load and monitor for things that go ping and POP during warmup.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Wow. I never prep. Okay. I flip the switch to the ON position when I enter the room. Go to the kitchen and pour myself a beverage. Return to my listening room. Then kick back and feel the music. My ears are probably not as acute as yours. Okay, perhaps a little more pointed.


 
   
  I remember the very first time. Like it was yesterday. When a young woman I'd met a few weeks prior, wanted to come by and see the listening room. "Head-Fi" came up during our first exchange..._ "So, what do you do at night?"_ Didn't seem like a trick question, so I answered. _"I enjoy listening to music inside the room a few nights a week." _
   
  I honored her request and in she came - never seen such oddities, configurations and placement before.  And wanted to know what was my (yes, head-fier's) attraction to wanting to sit and listen to music half the night. Before I could answer, I was peppered with _"Why aren't you listening to any of it right now?" "Because I didn't schedule a listening session for tonight"_ I replied.
   
_"It won't come on right now?" _she asked. I tried to explain briefly, the art of ceremony and why I celebrate with scheduled listening sessions. Something got lost in translation - she remarked it all looked nice but would want something that works everyday.





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway...
   
  ...the long wind-up to a night of relaxation had more to do with time constraints. Often times, I didn't know when I could finally sit down or how long and listen for the night. By having the system warmed and ready, I was always in the sweet spot. For example, some nights proved difficult and I'd barely squeeze in a 30 to 60 minute session. Well, it takes long for the system to come on song - it'd have been time to shut down just as things were well on the way.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> Also good to use cheap cans as a load and monitor for things that go ping and POP during warmup.


 
   
  For moments like this, I use the durable Senn HD280pro's.


----------



## john57

[size=12pt]I like to use my Fostex Othos headphones when trying out new tubes that might ping, like with some of my RCA 6AS7 tubes. Orthodynamic headphones are more resistance against power surges because they have no voice coils that can bend. When Orthodynamic headphones reach their excursion limits the diagram just hit the magnet structure without if any damage. This is true when I had my Maggie’s loudspeakers, I sometimes would overdrive them hard and the diaphragm would flap against the magnet structure without damage.  Also Orthodynamic and loudspeakers spread out the heat generated over a larger area than with dynamic headphones in which the heat is concentrated in the voice coil.  When I was in auto body shop in HS I sometimes use a heat gun to remove small dings in sheet metal until I hear the “ping” and the dent is gone. I believe that the same thing is happening in tubes that uses sheet metal for the plates. My Bendix graphite tubes like my 6080s cannot ping since the plates are milled from a solid piece of graphite.  They can however have other issues that tubes in general can have[/size]


----------



## solserenade

Just to be clear, the pinging I refer to is not in the headphones - it is in the tube and I hear it with my ears.

There are several different types of metal inside the tube, each with different coefficient of expansion, or COE.

It's a tiny welded structure. Heat it and it will make some sounds. 
…

Also, I am one of those nuts that really really prefers 15 to 60 minutes of warm-up before turning on the music. Again, it's about temperature-equalization, and general stability. 

I haven't any data on that concept-only by experience I feel that my memorable listening sessions are always preceded by diligent warm-ups.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For moments like this, I use the durable Senn HD280pro's.


 
       
       I have those cans also and i will start to use them for warm up. they sure can take a beating!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> I remember the very first time. Like it was yesterday. When a young woman I'd met a few weeks prior, wanted to come by and see the listening room. "Head-Fi" came up during our first exchange..._ "So, what do you do at night?"_ Didn't seem like a trick question, so I answered. _"I enjoy listening to music inside the room a few nights a week." _
> 
> I honored her request and in she came - never seen such oddities, configurations and placement before.  And wanted to know what was my (yes, head-fier's) attraction to wanting to sit and listen to music half the night. Before I could answer, I was peppered with _"Why aren't you listening to any of it right now?" "Because I didn't schedule a listening session for tonight"_ I replied.
> 
> ...


 
  Wow!


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> i haven't come across this before in the thread but then again i haven't read the 1706 pages on it. vacuumtubes.net could of told me before hand. maybe the expected me to know this already but i am a greenhorn unfortunately! i am going to have to apologies to dale for sending him an angry email .................... oops.




When I called to order mine last week they told me I might get either one. I received a pair of the Chathams. Based on previous discussions on this forum, that was fine with me.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For moments like this, I use the durable Senn HD280pro's.


 
  HD280pros have stood the test of time in the studio. They can survive deaf drummers, both mechanical abuse and the high sound levels asked of them. But for completely unknown tubes I offer up HD202 as a potential for sacrifice. They haven't exploded yet.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Just to be clear, the pinging I refer to is not in the headphones - it is in the tube and I hear it with my ears.
> 
> There are several different types of metal inside the tube, each with different coefficient of expansion, or COE.
> 
> ...


 
  An inexpensive IR thermometer is quite useful to plot thermal changes. Most tubes equilibrate in 10 to 20 minutes and all the distracting pings, dinks and electronic serenades tend to cease.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> An inexpensive IR thermometer is quite useful to plot thermal changes. Most tubes equilibrate in 10 to 20 minutes and all the distracting pings, dinks and electronic serenades tend to cease.


 
  i started waiting at least 20 mins myself and i think you are on the ball there. i could hear the tubes popping myself without the headphones plugged in, all threw the first 10 mins is were most of the crackle and stuff happens - but just to be sure i am now giving them at least twenty minutes. I do not want to hear that arc again!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, that's quite a ritual! The only time my rig warms up that long before listening is when I forget to shut it off the time before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> An inexpensive IR thermometer is quite useful to plot thermal changes. Most tubes equilibrate in 10 to 20 minutes and all the distracting pings, dinks and electronic serenades tend to cease.


 
   
  This is where I am at, more or less...
   
  Never heard the word _equilibrate_ before, must be a new one!


----------



## magiccabbage

Just heard back from dale at vacuumtubes.net he said that there is no problem in returning tubes. He was really nice about it. He could not email me back because he had to drive 350 miles to his grandsons grad and his brother was covering for him on his own. Now i regret sending him a angry email considering that i have pretty much narrowed the problem (loud popping) down to not warming the tube's up enough. So after all this posting and with a lot of good advice from people here at headfi i have learned that - 3 MINUTES IS NOT ENOUGH TIME TO WARM UP A HIGH GAIN TUBE. Bad mistake on my part.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *atomicbob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> An inexpensive IR thermometer is quite useful to plot thermal changes. Most tubes equilibrate in 10 to 20 minutes and all the distracting pings, dinks and electronic serenades tend to cease.


 
   
  I'd like to add that in my case with the Woo, my warm-ups had little to do with tubes pinging or not reaching operating temperature. My tubes didn't ping. Rather, the system in its totality would take much more time to come on song - where each piece of kit enters its own sweet spot operating wise.
   
  This sweet spot is even different among the handful of amps and DACs I have. Further, we the listeners are instruments ourselves. Unbeknownst to many is their emotional state. May settle down to listen and they themselves may not be in the sweet spot for listening.
   
  I have music flowing the whole time and do spot checks throughout hours one and two. The same 45 second sample in the first 15 minutes can sound very different one hour on, two hours on. 
   
  Enjoyed many a 16-18 hour overnight sessions - some components simply sound better with a continuous flow of juice through them. Some music studios feel
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the same way. By the way, WooAudio recommends no more than 8 hours of continuous playback. In my case, I ran 6SN7 series tubes and the Woo ran as cool as the other side of the pillow... _even in summer._
   
  Just my experience. Did I ever mention I miss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




my Woo?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *we the listeners are instruments ourselves*. Unbeknownst to many is their emotional state. May settle down to listen and they themselves may not be in the sweet spot for listening.


 
   
  Very well put...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Very well put...


 
   
  Thanks, grokit. You know, when it comes to my scheduling listening sessions, I'm as flexible as Gumby. If I ain't feelin' it one night, rather than burn my rare combo of tubes (TS-BGRP/USAF-596) I simply reschedule.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> ... I'm as flexible as Gumby. If I ain't feelin' it one night, rather than burn my rare combo of tubes (TS-BGRP/USAF-596) I simply reschedule.


 
   
  That is very good practice.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm home! Fired up the WA22. It is RCA Victor night.
  Using it with:
   
  1) NOS RCA 5U4G (1951).
  2) NOS RCA 6SN7 (clear top, long black plates)
  2) NOS RCA 6AS7 (1958)
   
  Let's see how these old timers sounds together. Has anyone ever loaded there Woos with one brand of manufacturer?


----------



## Silent One

Fantastique! I didn't roll that much but did think about doing so at one time or another. Can't wait for you to re-emerge from the couch to share your thoughts. You know... on your way to the fridge.


----------



## GrindingThud

Mine sounds best after about an hour and a half. The headphones seem to not exist and there is just music.



silent one said:


> I'd like to add that in my case with the Woo, my warm-ups had little to do with tubes pinging or not reaching operating temperature. My tubes didn't ping. Rather, the system in its totality would take much more time to come on song - where each piece of kit enters its own sweet spot operating wise.
> 
> This sweet spot is even different among the handful of amps and DACs I have. Further, we the listeners are instruments ourselves. Unbeknownst to many is their emotional state. May settle down to listen and they themselves may not be in the sweet spot for listening.
> 
> ...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd like to add that in my case with the Woo, my warm-ups had little to do with tubes pinging or not reaching operating temperature. My tubes didn't ping. Rather, the system in its totality would take much more time to come on song - where each piece of kit enters its own sweet spot operating wise.
> 
> This sweet spot is even different among the handful of amps and DACs I have. Further, we the listeners are instruments ourselves. Unbeknownst to many is their emotional state. May settle down to listen and they themselves may not be in the sweet spot for listening.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't see anything on your profile in the line of amps and cans. What gear are you using at the moment? i'm very interested to know. You have probably talked about it "till the cows come home" on other threads but i am too lazy to look.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'm home! Fired up the WA22. It is RCA Victor night.
> Using it with:
> 
> 1) NOS RCA 5U4G (1951).
> ...


 
   
  impossible on a WA2! hmm, actually, sylvania 6CA4, 7308/6DJ8, and 7236 is the only combo i can think of.
   
  possible with WA22, WA6-SE, WA6, WA3 though


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> impossible on a WA2! hmm, actually, sylvania 6CA4, 7308/6DJ8, and 7236 is the only combo i can think of.
> possible with WA22, WA6-SE, WA6, WA3 though


 
   
  YES!
  WA2
  Mullard:
  EZ80 or EZ81
  6080
  CV2493


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Mullard made 6080 thats right! Didnt remember lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> *I don't see anything on your profile in the line of amps and cans. What gear are you using at the moment? i'm very interested to know. *You have probably talked about it "till the cows come home" on other threads but i am too lazy to look.


 
   
  Currently, using only my iPod>HD650 combo. Everything else is in storage. Been on sabbatical for a few years; now returning home any month now. Hopefully June/July and then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




out comes the audio rig!
   
  Basically over 24 moon period: (only a sample, as I do not want to SPAM the thread)


----------



## Silent One

@ magiccabbage
   
  My last Profile Page entry was 20 May 2012 - Sunday, 1545 hours (not updated): 
   
   
   
 [size=1em]
 Location:
   LA (away on sabbatical)
   Forum Post Count:
   3641
   Last Online:
   1 second ago
   Interests (Hobbies, favorite activities, etc.):
   Letters; Cycling; Photography
   Headphone Inventory
   Denon AH-D7000 - XLR (Balanced)
 Sennheiser HD 280 pro
 Shure E3C's w/Sensaphonics custom ear molds.
 Audez'e LCD-2 - XLR (Balanced) On loan... (returned)
 HiFiMan HE-5LE - XLR (Balanced) On loan... (returned)
 HiFiMan HE-6 XLR (Balanced) On loan... (returned)
 HiFiMan HE-6 XLR (Balanced & Hard-wired) Incoming...
 Sennheiser HD600 (recabled) On loan... (returned)
 AKG K702 (recabled) On loan... (returned)
 Beyer DT-990 (600-ohm) On loan... (returned)
   Headphone Amp Inventory
   6AS7 OTL Amp Custom Built by 2359glenn
 Woo Audio WA 6 Special Edition SET Class A (sold)

 drive tubes -
 Tung-Sol 6SN7GT/VT-231 Black Glass Round Plate w/Oval Mica 1940's
 Raytheon-USN-CRP 6SN7W 1949
 RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass

 power tubes -
 Tung-Sol JAN-CTL-5998 1952

 rectifier tubes -
 United Electronics Company USAF-596 1957
 United Electronics Company USAF-596 1956
 General Electric 3DG4
 Emission Labs 5U4G Mesh Plate (gifted)
   Source Inventory
   2010 Mac mini, Corsair 60GB SSD, 8GB RAM; Amarra; Pure Music; Audirvana
 2011 Lenova Notebook; Lubuntu/LXDE; MPD/GMPC; Audacious
 2012 Logitech Squeezebox Touch (Returned))
   Cable Inventory
   WireWorld Headphone Cable
 Zeus Quad22 OCC Copper 4x22 AWG - XLR (Balanced w/matching adapter) 


 WireWorld Power Conditioning Cords 
 Electra 5* OCC Copper w/Furutech 24k Gold connectors (Music server)
 Electra 5* OCC Copper w/Furutech 24k Gold connectors (DAC)
 Electra 5* OCC Copper w/Furutech 24k Gold connectors (Amp)


 WireWorld Digital Audio Interconnect 
 Silver Starlight 6 OCC Silver-Clad Copper 


 WireWorld USB Digital Audio Cable
 Silver Starlight 6 OFC Silver-Clad Copper


 WireWorld Analogue Audio Interconnect 
 Eclipse 6 OCC Copper + Silver Tube plugs 
 Equinox 6 OCC Copper + ViaBlue 1/4 Mono plugs & Silver Tube RCA plugs
   Power-Related Components
   APC AV H Type Power Conditioner H10 1000 VA
 Monster Power Pro 2500 PowerCenter; Stage 2 v2.1 Filtering (Gone)
   Other Audio Equipment
   Wyred4Sound DAC-1 w/Low ESR "Super Caps"
 Mhdt Havana DAC Balanced Version - On loan... (returned)
 Mhdt USBridge
 Violetric V800 DAC - On loan... (returned)
 EMU-0404 USB 2.0 w/Regal linear power supply
 Pioneer SX-650 Integrated Receiver Vintage 1977
 Gemini PT-2000 III TT/ Shure Whitelabel Cartridge 
 Sony TCD-D8 Portable DAT Recorder
 Sony Walkman Professional
   Audio-Related Tweaks
   ViaBlue TRI Absorbers (Music server; DAC)
 Dayton Audio DSS4-BK Black Speaker Spikes (Amp)
 Maple Isolation Platforms - 15 x 12 x 4 & 17.5 x 16 x 2
 Black Isoblocks - 2"
   Music Preferences
   Jazz; Soul; R&B; Blues; World (African; Caribbean; Brazilian; Latin; Chinese; Indian; Middle Eastern ect); Zydeco; Classical and more...
   Interests (non-headphone)
   Food; Music; Sports; Culture
   Gear-Fi (Favorite Non-Audio Gear & Gadgets)
   Gaiwans; Road bike; Rhodia Notepads; Fountain pens
[/size]


----------



## kchew

I visited Wiwi Tubes in Hong Kong and man, it feels like Aladdin's cave.



In the end I left with a pair of Psvane CV-181T II and GEC 6080. There was a Marconi 6SN7 that looked like a black base B65 going for a song, but alas they only had one tube.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I visited Wiwi Tubes in Hong Kong and man, it feels like Aladdin's cave.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  And what, may I ask, is the price of a song these days?


----------



## jc9394

kchew said:


> I visited Wiwi Tubes in Hong Kong and man, it feels like Aladdin's cave.
> 
> In the end I left with a pair of Psvane CV-181T II and GEC 6080. There was a Marconi 6SN7 that looked like a black base B65 going for a song, but alas they only had one tube.




The GEC is really good with HD800.


----------



## grokit




----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Spoiler: Open%20...


 
  What was the command to open that cave again?
  Let's see....
   
  OPEN SIEMENS.
  OPEN MULLARD.
  OPEN RCA.
  ... wait ...
  OPEN SESAME!
   
  NOW. TAKE THEM QUICKLY, before the cave CLOSES again!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





grokit said:


>


 
  your going to give Rob Hughes some ideas to do the same thing.Skylab has quite the stash.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Try "open wallet", C.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Try "open wallet", C.


 

 LOL L. You are a caution!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how much do the GEC 6080s cost?


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how much do the GEC 6080s cost?


 
  I thought I saw some on fleabay for $50 (Pair).  Don't quote me though...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> how much do the GEC 6080s cost?




Usually around 125-175/ pair NOS


----------



## jc9394

teknikk7 said:


> I thought I saw some on fleabay for $50 (Pair).  Don't quote me though...




If you can find it for $50 NOS, jump don't walk.


----------



## GloryUprising

It's official, I think my amp hates 6EM7s.  The new pair has one of them popping right away.
   
  What do you guys think the warnings are for using non-matched tubes?  Do you think it'll blow up my amp, or just not sound as 'nice'?
   
  Do you guys think the 596 may be driving the 6EM7s to hard (I was thinking about rolling in the Princess to see if the popping stops; I don't remember having trouble with the 6EM7s until after I got the 596).


----------



## jc9394

Special conference party performed by Maroon 5

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/U3_Ye4cVwNI[/VIDEO]


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Special conference party performed by Maroon 5


 

 Thanks! What a great weekend kick-off.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> It's official, I think my amp hates 6EM7s.  The new pair has one of them popping right away.
> 
> What do you guys think the warnings are for using non-matched tubes?  Do you think it'll blow up my amp, or just not sound as 'nice'?
> 
> Do you guys think the 596 may be driving the 6EM7s to hard (I was thinking about rolling in the Princess to see if the popping stops; I don't remember having trouble with the 6EM7s until after I got the 596).


 
   
  I had 596 drives 6EM7/EA's...no problem whatsoever.  Sounds fantastic!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks! What a great weekend kick-off.


 
   
  it was a kick ass concert, i have few more video to upload when i get home.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> it was a kick ass concert, i have few more video to upload when i get him.


 
  You have the best perks in the work world. Let's have sashimi and sushi some time soon--when you come visit SF again.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> You have the best perks in the work world. Let's have sashimi and sushi some time soon--when you come visit SF again.


 
   
  most likely won't happen til next year, was in SF early in the year for few days.


----------



## Clayton SF

Well okay, then. Ultra- and I will make up for that by tearing up the town across the pond in Flemish territory.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> WHAT!


 
   
  yeah, a very short trip and everything was planned by vendors.  that is why i did not ping you and SO.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yeah, a very short trip and everything was planned by vendors.  that is why i did not ping you and SO.


 
   
  2nd half of 2013 or 2014 and we gonna meet... eventually.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> 2nd half of 2013 or 2014 and we gonna meet... eventually.




You went back to SF or else I will drive around in LA/Anaheim having sushi in Japantown with you. I went to Napa Rose for dinner with a coworker, that place is Awesome.


----------



## Silent One

yeah, we be livin' out of the suitcase for a bit...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> yeah, we be livin' out of the suitcase for a bit...




Let's try again next year, see you LA going back to cold rainy days in Boston.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let's try again next year, see you LA going back to cold rainy days in Boston.


 
   
  I'm still trying to sort out NYC later this year, so we'll see. Tell Ma I'm doin' fine out here on the coast; saving up for a Woo!


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> I have the stock tube combination in my wa5, hopefully this is the reason the system sounds thin.  Nobody seems to like the Ultrasone brand with wa5, I agree.   I am about to pull the trigger on the EML 300b or the Sophia mesh 300b power tubes and the EML mesh 5u4g or the Sophia 247b mesh as the rectifiers.  I need a cheaper hobby.  Maybe I should take up jogging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the the EML300B Mesh.  The EML300B XLS is EML's answer to the carbon Sophia Royal Princess 300B.  I've yet to see a review that places either above the EML 300B Mesh.  
   
  I've owned the Sophia Princess 274 -- It's no match for the EML 5U4G, IMO.  The EML has more depth in the soundstage on the WA5.
   
  I'm tempted to try the Sophia Royal Princess, but that's a $1200 dollar experiment that would alternatively put a pair of LCD2s on my head to compliment my HD800.  I'd buy the headphones over the tubes.  As much as I'd love to take one for the team and do a 300B showdown--- I'd rather have another pair of headphones.  My suspicion is the SRP delivers deeper bass, but the EML is a better overall tube, but I may never know for certain.
   
  Someone else was asking about the PSVane 181 TII with the WA5.  I have a pair, but they're not being used at the moment.  I bought a pair of Sylvania 6SN7s which deliver deeper bass to my ears.  The PSVane is a smooth tube though.  I've done a lot of driver testing on the WA5.  The Sylvania 6SN7 is the best I've heard to date.
   
  The other issue with the PSVane is the clearance between tubes is very very tight with the EML bottles.  You have about an index card's thickness between tubes.  Tricky.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I've owned the Sophia Princess 274 -- It's no match for the EML 5U4G, IMO.  The EML has more depth in the soundstage on the WA5.


 
   
  +1
   
  besides the _*Mighty 596*_, the EML 5U4G is my best rectifier, its definitely a step above the sophia. the sophia is open and wide, forward yet smooth with nice bass, but the EML has transparency, dimensionality, and depth which is better than sophia. sophia has a better bass, though its also more bloaty than the EML.


----------



## fhuang

kchew said:


> I visited Wiwi Tubes in Hong Kong and man, it feels like Aladdin's cave.
> 
> 
> 
> In the end I left with a pair of Psvane CV-181T II and GEC 6080. There was a Marconi 6SN7 that looked like a black base B65 going for a song, but alas they only had one tube.





hey you made it. interesting i just got myself a pair of psvane cv181-t couple days ago. the smoothness is nice.


----------



## fhuang

enjoying right now


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> besides the _*Mighty 596*_, the EML 5U4G is my best rectifier, its definitely a step above the sophia.


 
   
  I have a pretty good balance going right now with the EML 5U4G Mesh Rectifier, the EML Mesh 300B and the Sylvania 6SN7 drivers in the WA5LE.  The EML 300B is a spectacular tube, but it is not punchy in the bass.  The Sylvania has terrific bass slam, and seems to be filling in the sound nicely.  The current tube setup leans more toward accurate than slam on the bottom end.  If I pull the 5U4G for 596's I'm afraid I will go bass lighter.


----------



## fhuang

reeltime, you mind take a picture of your eml300b with psvane cv181? mine is already real tight with just regular size 300b


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I have a pretty good balance going right now with the EML 5U4G Mesh Rectifier, the EML Mesh 300B and the Sylvania 6SN7 drivers in the WA5LE.  The EML 300B is a spectacular tube, but it is not punchy in the bass.  The Sylvania has terrific bass slam, and seems to be filling in the sound nicely.  The current tube setup leans more toward accurate than slam on the bottom end.  If I pull the 5U4G for 596's I'm afraid I will go bass lighter.


 
   
  Perhaps, jc9394 can weigh-in or send him a PM regarding your fear of lighter Bass in the EML/UE swap on the WA5LE.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The 596 goes pretty deep, I would be surprised if it goes lighter but interested in the differences.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The 596 goes pretty deep, I would be surprised if it goes lighter but interested in the differences.


 
   
  +1


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +2


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Perhaps, jc9394 can weigh-in or send him a PM regarding your fear of lighter Bass in the EML/UE swap on the WA5LE.




The 596 definitely deeper than 5U4G, if you are looking for tight, deep bass get a Mullard metal based GZ34. 

Both 596 and GZ34 match very well with 300B, skip the 274.


----------



## mcdanderson

I'm so excited... my WA6-SE w/ sophia princess just came in!!! I'm installing the tubes right now. Can't wait to try it!


----------



## Clayton SF

Congratulations!!! And enjoy the weekend!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

reeltime said:


> I have a pretty good balance going right now with the EML 5U4G Mesh Rectifier, the EML Mesh 300B and the Sylvania 6SN7 drivers in the WA5LE.  The EML 300B is a spectacular tube, but it is not punchy in the bass.  The Sylvania has terrific bass slam, and seems to be filling in the sound nicely.  The current tube setup leans more toward accurate than slam on the bottom end.  If I pull the 5U4G for 596's I'm afraid I will go bass lighter.


 

   
   
  Quote:


grokit said:


> The 596 goes pretty deep, I would be surprised if it goes lighter but interested in the differences.


 
   
  on my WA6-SE, i feel like the 596 has more extension than EML, it just goes a little deeper, and remains tight, clean, controlled, though it is a little bass light. the EML is also kinda bass light, but i think they're pretty equal in terms of bass quantity. bass is just not the EML's strong point..  it might be different on the WA5. also, this is just from normal listening, i haven't actually done in depth comparison between them. so overall, i feel like the 596 has better bass. 
  Quote: 





mcdanderson said:


> I'm so excited... my WA6-SE w/ sophia princess just came in!!! I'm installing the tubes right now. Can't wait to try it!


 
   
  grats!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The 596 definitely deeper than 5U4G, if you are looking for tight, deep bass get a Mullard metal based GZ34.


 
   
  +1


----------



## moriez

Since a week I'm the owner of a used WA3 and now in need of some brainstorming from you guys. Unfortunately the amp hums lightly but too audible coming from the transformer (powered up doing nothing / source unplugged). Bear with me before you say it's normal for tube amps. I've found that the transformer hum vanishes when I unscrew and take off the ''hatch'' which covers the transformer. When I lay back the hatch the hum is back (with or without putting the screws back in). The enclosure looks flawless to me. No obvious problems to be seen. Any ideas what's going on and how to solve this?
   
  Second issue is a hum in the right channel over different types of headphones. It's volume independent and already switched the left tube for right. Source unplugged and tried another AC outlet.
  How likely is this a tube problem and if so, how can I know if it's the power tube or drivers?


----------



## GrindingThud

Do you hear it in the headphones or from the outside of the amplifier?



moriez said:


> Since a week I'm the owner of a used WA3 and now in need of some brainstorming from you guys. Unfortunately the amp hums lightly but too audible coming from the transformer (powered up doing nothing / source unplugged). Bear with me before you say it's normal for tube amps. I've found that the transformer hum vanishes when I unscrew and take off the ''hatch'' which covers the transformer. When I lay back the hatch the hum is back (with or without putting the screws back in). The enclosure looks flawless to me. No obvious problems to be seen. Any ideas what's going on and how to solve this?
> 
> 
> Second issue is a hum in the right channel over different types of headphones. It's volume independent and already switched the left tube for right. Source unplugged and tried another AC outlet.
> ...


----------



## GrindingThud

The WA3 is capacitor coupled between driver and outputs. You can turn it on with no driver tubes in place to see if the output tube is the one humming. Next question.....does your model have a choke in the power supply or just resistors? The newer ones had chokes and are quieter. You may also want to consult some of the power supply mods in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/94853/woo3-modified/225#post_9269260



moriez said:


> Since a week I'm the owner of a used WA3 and now in need of some brainstorming from you guys. Unfortunately the amp hums lightly but too audible coming from the transformer (powered up doing nothing / source unplugged). Bear with me before you say it's normal for tube amps. I've found that the transformer hum vanishes when I unscrew and take off the ''hatch'' which covers the transformer. When I lay back the hatch the hum is back (with or without putting the screws back in). The enclosure looks flawless to me. No obvious problems to be seen. Any ideas what's going on and how to solve this?
> 
> 
> Second issue is a hum in the right channel over different types of headphones. It's volume independent and already switched the left tube for right. Source unplugged and tried another AC outlet.
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





mcdanderson said:


> I'm so excited... my WA6-SE w/ sophia princess just came in!!! I'm installing the tubes right now. Can't wait to try it!


 
   
  Installing tubes... and typing... at the same time? Now, that's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





excitement! Though, you could be using 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 dictation software.
   
  CONGRATS! however you're workin' it.


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> The 596 definitely deeper than 5U4G, if you are looking for tight, deep bass get a Mullard metal based GZ34.
> 
> Both 596 and GZ34 match very well with 300B, skip the 274.





you have any experience with gz37?


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> you have any experience with gz37?




GZ37 is wider but not as tight and deep in bass department. It is very similar as the 596 but not as good.


----------



## jc9394

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/NQflwbnJdM8[/VIDEO]


----------



## GloryUprising

SO, you have the most epic avatars!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

talking about rectifiers, has any1 used a U52 tube in a WA6-SE?


----------



## moriez

Quote:


grindingthud said:


> Do you hear it in the headphones or from the outside of the amplifier?


 
   
  Both.
   
  Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> The WA3 is capacitor coupled between driver and outputs. You can turn it on with no driver tubes in place to see if the output tube is the one humming. Next question.....does your model have a choke in the power supply or just resistors? The newer ones had chokes and are quieter. You may also want to consult some of the power supply mods in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/94853/woo3-modified/225#post_9269260


 
   
  I'm happy with your pointers but the manual specifically says DO NOT turn it on without all tubes in it. Are you sure sure? About the choke/resistors, no idea. What do I look for? All I know is that it's build in October/November of 2011.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently, using only my iPod>HD650 combo. Everything else is in storage. Been on sabbatical for a few years; now returning home any month now. Hopefully June/July and then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> @ magiccabbage
> 
> My last Profile Page entry was 20 May 2012 - Sunday, 1545 hours (not updated):
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
   
  I actually remember some of those images now from a while back i just couldn't remember that they they were yours. You must have a lot of friends into hi-fi to get all that gear on loan. Are the wood blocks a microphonics thing? I love the look of the sansui but i never listen to the radio so i couldn't justify getting one. I would love to get a preamp that has the same look and finish as those old receivers though.


----------



## GrindingThud

The big gold transformer looking thing inside is the choke. Attached a photo. For the WA3, I've never had a problem running with the drivers out....and the circuit design supports it ok. For the external transformer noise, you can try tightening the retaining nut inside the transformer box or putting a bit of stiff padding under the round plate that holds the transformer and tightening down on that. That being said, getting a perfectly quiet 6AS7 type can be a bit of trial and error. The Tung Sol 6080WA tends to be a very quiet tube that is not expensive compared to many. Hum in drivers is pretty common. I find most 6DJ8 types are pretty quiet. Many have been particularly happy with Brimar 6DJ8. I like Holland A frames.




moriez said:


> About the choke/resistors, no idea. What do I look for? All I know is that it's build in October/November of 2011.


----------



## magiccabbage

Sorry about the clog up guys i meant to quote just the txt and not the images.


----------



## moriez

@GrindingThud,
   
  Wonderful. I will open it up and see what can be done. Are there any dangerous areas I should stay away from? Jack Woo also suggested to tighten or loosen the bold but that didn't do it.

 As for the headphones right channel issue: I took out the drivers and still the hum is present.


----------



## GrindingThud

Unplug the amp before peeking inside. You will see bare solder joints and leads of resistors and capacitors and tube socket pins. To be safe if you are not familiar with electronics, just don't touch them.....but after 30 seconds of being turned off everything inside is discharged anyway, so the risk is very low.

Sounds like your output tube is humming....pretty common. Get a new one.



moriez said:


> @GrindingThud,
> 
> Wonderful. I will open it up and see what can be done. Are there any dangerous areas I should stay away from? Jack Woo also suggested to tighten or loosen the bold but that didn't do it.
> 
> ...


----------



## moriez

Well, it's a choke model (WA3+ sticker on it). That's all I can tell from looking at it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I must further investigate why hatch off hums not and will be looking into a new power tube then.
   
  Thanks for your help! Much appreciated.


----------



## magiccabbage

Do you use the Sansui as a preamp? - Silent One


----------



## GrindingThud

That's good, WA3+ with choke have a quieter background. The cover thing is interesting. Sounds like the cover is changing the shape of the magnetic field....but in a way the power tube is picking up. I don't understand it and mine does not seem to exhibit that behavior. 



moriez said:


> Well, it's a choke model (WA3+ sticker on it). That's all I can tell from looking at it
> 
> I must further investigate why hatch off hums not and will be looking into a new power tube then.
> 
> Thanks for your help! Much appreciated.


----------



## lolovitch

No posting much on Head-Fi, nevertheless really enjoying the WA22 I bought last August. For once I have a little story to share.
   
  Having only used the dual 3-pin XLR output, it has taken until recently to notice that my WA22 was along the ones with a defective 4-pin XLR socket. I tried it about 3 weeks ago and the connector remained blocked, I had to open the cover and release the locking spring from the inside. Not much of an issue, however as I would like to use the 4-pin socket going forward I contacted Jack Woo. He was well aware of the issue. As I live in Switzerland shipping the amp for such a minor repair didn't make any sense, therefore Jack sent me the socket to replace myself.
   
  So this afternoon, I took my soldering iron and opened up again the WA22. The replacement is really straight forward, although I was glad to have my dad with me as a third hand. For your enjoyment, some pictures from the open-heart surgery.
   
  After removing the defective socket:
   

   
  And the final result:
   

   
  I am glad, I did this. It really was an easy issue to solve. Now back to musical enjoyment, the WA22 is heating up as I type.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





lolovitch said:


> For once I have a little story to share.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Now back to musical enjoyment, the WA22 is heating up as I type.


----------



## moriez

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> That's good, WA3+ with choke have a quieter background. The cover thing is interesting. Sounds like the cover is changing the shape of the magnetic field....but in a way the power tube is picking up. I don't understand it and mine does not seem to exhibit that behavior.


 
  Yes, nice choke.
   
  The cover thing is really beyond my reasoning. Probably I must have a technical person look at it. If you (or other forum members) stumble on any ideas please PM me.
  To clarify, the power tube is not picking it up. Cover off or on, the hum in the headphones is another animal.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Do you use the Sansui as a preamp? - Silent One


 
   
  As, you have a lot of perusing to do on head-fi, I really tried to limit the pix shown... gots hundreds! I bought the Sansui receiver just after I placed my audio rig in storage, so I have yet to hear it in my system. Also, I placed it in the repair shop for a bit of restoration shortly thereafter.
   
  Only tested inputs/outputs with iPod-line connector-HD650. I will periodically use the Preamp section with other amps going forward at times. Much in the same way I use my big vintage Pioneer amp - can use amp/preamp separately with other amps/preamps. If I can ever save enough, I'll let you know how it sounds hooked-up to the WA5.
   
  I happen to have my 2 piece Sansui stacked, but in the pix below the black half on the right is the amp; left half preamp:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> SO, you have the most epic avatars!


 
   
  Thanks. But, if I could trade 'em for a Woo...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> talking about rectifiers, has any1 used a U52 tube in a WA6-SE?


 
   
  Not @ $435+ I haven't... in any amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/u52-tube


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As, you have a lot of perusing to do on head-fi, I really tried to limit the pix shown... gots hundreds! I bought the Sansui receiver just after I placed my audio rig in storage, so I have yet to hear it in my system. Also, I placed it in the repair shop for a bit of restoration shortly thereafter.
> 
> Only tested inputs/outputs with iPod-line connector-HD650. I will periodically use the Preamp section with other amps going forward at times. Much in the same way I use my big vintage Pioneer amp - can use amp/preamp separately with other amps/preamps. If I can ever save enough, I'll let you know how it sounds hooked-up to the WA5.
> 
> I happen to have my 2 piece Sansui stacked, but in the pix below the black half on the right is the amp; left half preamp:


 
  Saving for the wa5! of course then you will have to upgrade the tubes. that baby can take Sophia royal princess - another hole in your wallet. Id love to hear what it sounds like as a preamp threw the wa5. I just got tube upgrades for my wa2. I might post one up.


----------



## magiccabbage

Damn hole in the wall, i must fix that!


----------



## Silent One

Upgraded tubes? I'd never consider the '5' without 'em! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You gotta pay-to-play!!!


----------



## Rawrbington

that picture makes me miss my WA2


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Damn hole in the wall, i must fix that!


 
   
  Nice, magiccabbage. But, are you sure that's not a gunshot hole from your mate for your audio spending habits?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nice, magiccabbage. But, are you sure that's not a gunshot hole from your mate for your audio spending habits?


 
  Na that was the moving of the old book shelf. I do get enough guff off my friends about audio gear though. At the moment i cant decide whether to buy the beyer T1's or a Japanese strat. The T1's will be sticking around but the the Japanese strat is rare enough and i know the guy selling it, the thing will be swiped up fairly quick............... what to do?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> that picture makes me miss my WA2


 
   
  hows life with the WA6-SE?


----------



## magiccabbage

Sorry guys i could not resist - more amp porn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Don't ever apologize for sharing your light and magic. It put a smile on my face and a tingle in my ears--and that's a good thing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

crappy iphone pictures


----------



## Frank I

I like the cool pictures. I cant wait to get my WA5 to light up the board.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I like the cool pictures. I cant wait to get my WA5 to light up the board.


 

 When is it scheduled to be delivered?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I like the cool pictures. I cant wait to get my WA5 to light up the board.


 
  I seen you get interviewed on the new headfi video. your famous now frank there's no looking back!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> When is it scheduled to be delivered?


 
  Jack told me the end of June or probably sooner than that. I am picking it up in NY.  I may also be coming to the show in August. i jut check the flight out so I can get to meet you and hopefully lot of other headfliers if we get some more people to go to the meet.  Talk it up with the San Francisco contingency. Woo is one of the vendors coming.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Don't ever apologize for sharing your light and magic. It put a smile on my face and a tingle in my ears--and that's a good thing.


 
  Im glad it did. i still cant get the images sharp enough. i might have to swap lenses.


----------



## magiccabbage

i nearly forgot to ask, does anyone know where i can get those acrylic shelves for stacking gear on? i seen someone a while back with a wa22 on top of one and a dac in the shelf and i think there were a pair of hd800's on the desk too. i have been trying to find the image in threads for the past 3 days but to no avail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i have searched acrylic boxes and shelves online and cant seem to come across the one that was posted here. most of the ones i found were too small. maybe someone can help me out?


----------



## magiccabbage

it was something like this but just more of a plain square or rectangle


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I seen you get interviewed on the new headfi video. your famous now frank there's no looking back!


 
  I had a blast at that meet. It was good to be back home in NY and e=see some old friends and meet some new ones. That is what makes this place so special.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I seen you get interviewed on the new headfi video. your famous now frank there's no looking back!


 
   
  +1


----------



## GloryUprising

Princess Sophia photographs better then the 596.
   

   

   
  6EM7
   

   
  Princess Sophie showin' off her curves.
   

   
  What can we say, the girl's a ham.
   

   
  Gotta get Sophie's other side.


----------



## Clayton SF

Your Sophia looks beautiful. I bet it sounds spectacular. Did you get your Sophia from Jack?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i lost the auction for the GEC 6080 that started at 49$, i forgot about it and someone ended up scoring a pair of GEC 6080 for 56$ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 
   
  just bought a spare 596 that popped up though


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Your Sophia looks beautiful. I bet it sounds spectacular. Did you get your Sophia from Jack?


 
   
  This particular tube came direct from Sophia Electric; they are based in the next town over from me.
   
http://www.sophiaelectric.com/


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i lost the auction for the GEC 6080 that started at 49$, i forgot about it and someone ended up scoring a pair of GEC 6080 for 56$
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I hate when that s--t happens.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i lost the auction for the GEC 6080 that started at 49$, i forgot about it and someone ended up scoring a pair of GEC 6080 for 56$
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry about the 6080s  re U52s, which one are you interested in, there are lots in both ST' and 'GB' shape.'


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Different shapes of u52?


----------



## JonasRas

Hey guys, I have a problem with my WA6. So far it has worked very well with no problems, but today when i played music through it, the audio that came out of the right channel of my HD-650's sounded very muted and distorted, and when the amp is turned off, sometimes there is a click from the amp itself. I have checked the headphones and they work just fine. I have the amp hooked up to a Schiit Modi. I haven't got any spare tubes to test, so do you have any idea what is wrong?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Different shapes of u52?


 

 yes


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> Hey guys, I have a problem with my WA6. So far it has worked very well with no problems, but today when i played music through it, the audio that came out of the right channel of my HD-650's sounded very muted and distorted, and when the amp is turned off, sometimes there is a click from the amp itself. I have checked the headphones and they work just fine. I have the amp hooked up to a Schiit Modi. I haven't got any spare tubes to test, so do you have any idea what is wrong?


 
   
  Switch the small driver tubes in your amp. Then test your headphones to see if the muted sound has switch channels. If it has then one of your tubes is bad; if not, then perhaps it is the amp.


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i lost the auction for the GEC 6080 that started at 49$, i forgot about it and someone ended up scoring a pair of GEC 6080 for 56$
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I thought I saw some for $49...haha  How much you pay for the 596?  Get it from jack?


----------



## Silent One

A photograph of "Miss Sophia" inside my Woo... @ night.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just bought a spare 596 that popped up though


 
   
  Great! Was it a single that merely popped up or do we have a brand new source?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Sorry guys i could not resist - more amp porn.


 
   
  NO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 apology needed in this regard, have at it! I especially like the pix above - the Glass wonderfully illuminated and dancing in the night.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> NO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You keep changing your profile pic's of these extremely hot women, which is very distracting. I cant remember what i came on here to ask now!


----------



## Silent One

I'm often silent... just minding my business.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm often silent... just minding my business.


 
   
  That's exactly how I know you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  We should PM again concerning our research, not that I have any new info. lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That's exactly how I know you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now that I got my fill of WooAudio images, will re-emerge after
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lunch... to meet you on the other side.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great! Was it a single that merely popped up or do we have a brand new source?


 
   
  was just a single on ebay for $99, seems like its the same seller that posted the 1 or 2 other 596 tubes the past few months.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> was just a single on ebay for $99, seems like its the same seller that posted the 1 or 2 other 596 tubes the past few months.


 
   
  I have an automatic notification alert and did not get that one. Crap ebay!


----------



## Clayton SF

It is a wet Monday afternoon in San Francisco and I am listening to my WA22 and Beyers DT-770 AE. Tubes: RCA 6AS7, Raytheon VT-99 (w/Glenn's adapters), Mullard 5Z4G. Nice warm sound. Clean highs, low bass and neutral mids. So lovely, so nice. One of the RCA 6AS7 is slightly microphonic. That is not apparent when the music is playing--oh so worth it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is a wet Monday afternoon in San Francisco and I am listening to my WA22 and Beyers DT-770 AE. Tubes: RCA 6AS7, Raytheon VT-99 (w/Glenn's adapters), Mullard 5Z4G. Nice warm sound. Clean highs, low bass and neutral mids. So lovely, so nice. One of the RCA 6AS7 is slightly microphonic. That is not apparent when the music is playing--oh so worth it.


 
   
  In_ "The City That Knows How"_ you certainly know how to do it, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Clayton SF!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> In_ "The City That Knows How"_ you certainly know how to do it,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, Silent One. I knew how to do it so well this afternoon that I fell asleep with the headphones on. I was listening to Melody Gardot. Her voice was so soothing and haunting. The CD ended. I woke up. Now I have to pour myself an afternoon glass wine and listen to more music!!! This time I'll sit up and not lie down.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you listen to records, you have to get up once in a while!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks, Silent One. I knew how to do it so well this afternoon that I fell asleep with the headphones on. I was listening to Melody Gardot. Her voice was so soothing and haunting. The CD ended. I woke up. Now I have to pour myself an afternoon glass wine and listen to more music!!! This time I'll sit up and not lie do


 
  I'm gonna have to get some melody gardot albums now. I searched her name on youtube and was pleasantly impressed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks, Silent One. I knew how to do it so well this afternoon that I fell asleep with the headphones on. I was listening to Melody Gardot. Her voice was so soothing and haunting. The CD ended. I woke up. Now I have to pour myself an afternoon glass wine and listen to more music!!! This time I'll sit up and not lie down.


 
   
  Still, a fantastic afternoon by any description. Hope to have my own listening room and memories restored by midsummer... or half moon sooner. 
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> If you listen to records, you have to get up once in a while!


 
   
  Or @ 45rpm up & down 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




like Jack-in-the-box!


----------



## atomicbob

Listening to a mastering proof for The Steve Treseler Group featuring Ingrid Jensen on trumpet - Cold Hammered has incredible solos in it! All sounds so lifelike through the V800 -> WA3+ -> HD800 with amperex bugle boys 6dj8 and Chatham 2399.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> Listening to a mastering proof for The Steve Treseler Group featuring Ingrid Jensen on trumpet - Cold Hammered has incredible solos in it! All sounds so lifelike through the V800 -> WA3+ -> HD800 with amperex bugle boys 6dj8 and Chatham 2399.


 
   
  Enjoying my holiday on a darkened Monday night with threatening skies (rain), your description put me in the room... and at ease. Thanks for sharing a most wonderful experience.


----------



## atomicbob

silent one said:


> Enjoying my holiday on a darkened Monday night with threatening skies (rain), your description put me in the room... and at ease. Thanks for sharing a most wonderful experience.




If you enjoy jazz and are interested I can probably comp you a copy of the release. Raining here, a most dreary drizzle, but our trusty WA3+ helps create the bright spot in the dreary dark.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> If you enjoy jazz and are interested I can probably comp you a copy of the release. Raining here, a most dreary drizzle, but our trusty WA3+ helps create the bright spot in the dreary dark.


 
   
  Tell me it's not raining in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Seattle.




   
  Thanks kindly for being inclusive. I'll hit you up later this summer. Right now, all my gears are in storage and I'm in between cities relocating.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> It is a wet Monday afternoon in San Francisco and I am listening to my WA22 and Beyers DT-770 AE. Tubes: RCA 6AS7, Raytheon VT-99 (w/Glenn's adapters), Mullard 5Z4G. Nice warm sound. Clean highs, low bass and neutral mids. So lovely, so nice. One of the RCA 6AS7 is slightly microphonic. That is not apparent when the music is playing--oh so worth it.




Nice tubes!


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> Listening to a mastering proof for The Steve Treseler Group featuring Ingrid Jensen on trumpet - Cold Hammered has incredible solos in it! All sounds so lifelike through the V800 -> WA3+ -> HD800 with amperex bugle boys 6dj8 and Chatham 2399.


 
  I've always liked Jensen's playing, somewhere between Kenny Wheeler and Chet Baker.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is a wet Monday afternoon in San Francisco and I am listening to my WA22 and Beyers DT-770 AE. Tubes: RCA 6AS7, Raytheon VT-99 (w/Glenn's adapters), Mullard 5Z4G. Nice warm sound. Clean highs, low bass and neutral mids. So lovely, so nice. One of the RCA 6AS7 is slightly microphonic. That is not apparent when the music is playing--oh so worth it.


 
  Nice photos, nice tubes.  I likee.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I agree, so gorgeous!


----------



## jc9394

Calling Dubstepgirl... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/663655/wyred-4-sound-dac-2


----------



## Silent One

Good eye, jc9394!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Calling Dubstepgirl...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  very tempting, but i'd have to sell a headphone to buy it right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ill be upgrading stuff hopefully by the end of this year (at least 1 new headphone + a dac upgrade)


----------



## daverich4

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> It is a wet Monday afternoon in San Francisco and I am listening to my WA22 and Beyers DT-770 AE. Tubes: RCA 6AS7, Raytheon VT-99 (w/Glenn's adapters), Mullard 5Z4G. Nice warm sound. Clean highs, low bass and neutral mids. So lovely, so nice. One of the RCA 6AS7 is slightly microphonic. That is not apparent when the music is playing--oh so worth it.


 
   
   
  On the other hand, it's a warm, sunny afternoon in Charlotte and I am listening to my WA22 and HD800's. Tubes: Shuguang Treasures, Chatham 2399's and the Mighty 596 (w/Jacks adapter). It's funny, I've only had the 2399's for a week or two now and while I had nice deep bass with the Sylvania 7236's that the Chatham's replaced, now the bass seems fuller somehow. Bigger? Rounder? Something that I like at any rate.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> On the other hand, it's a warm, sunny afternoon in Charlotte and I am listening to my WA22 and HD800's. Tubes: Shuguang Treasures, Chatham 2399's and the Mighty 596 (w/Jacks adapter). It's funny, I've only had the 2399's for a week or two now and while I had nice deep bass with the Sylvania 7236's that the Chatham's replaced, now the bass seems fuller somehow. Bigger? Rounder? Something that I like at any rate.


 
   
_Very nice._


----------



## GloryUprising

So i got a pair oof LCD3s over the weekend. I'm digging them...a lot.

Looks like the LCD2s are going on the market soon with an upgrade cable from the toxic cable...I'll give a good deal to a fellow Woo owner. Post a pic of your woo with your cans and a note with your HeadFi name and then send me a PM. >=) SOLD!

And on the good news my 6EM7s are behaving nicely now with Princess Sophie; gonna roll back in the 596 in a few hours. Cross my fingers.


----------



## Silent One

Great. But in the event it doesn't work out and you've got the kitchen window open, _we gonna hear you scream _



_west of the Mississippi. _Hope all turns out well...


----------



## grokit

Quote:  
   
  Do you have a different aftermarket cable in mind for the LCD3?


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Do you have a different aftermarket cable in mind for the LCD3?


 
  I'm not convinced about upgrade cables.  For me, 'upgrade' aftermarket cables are more about technical (SE vs Balanced) or practical (10ft+ vs stock length) reasons vs chasing an incremental upgrade.
   
  In the case of the LCD2, I just didn't like the ribbon style cable for a short run and got a toxic cable for a) shorter length and b) not have the ribbon cable.
   
  I've since learned to like the ribbon cable (it's softer and more flexible esp for a distance run) and now I'm willing to pass the cable along to 'sweeten' the pot for someone.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> So i got a pair oof LCD3s over the weekend. I'm digging them...a lot.


 
   
   
  are you using LCD-3 on the WA6-SE?


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> are you using LCD-3 on the WA6-SE?




Yup. Also v200 and waiting on a Headamp GSX-MKII


----------



## Dubstep Girl

does LCD-3 sound ok on WA6-SE? or do you feel its lacking vs other amps?


----------



## jsgraha

dubstep girl said:


> does LCD-3 sound ok on WA6-SE? or do you feel its lacking vs other amps?




When I tried at the shop, piano sound slightly off, but everything else is fine (sophia and 6dr7, didn't bring other tubes)


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> does LCD-3 sound ok on WA6-SE? or do you feel its lacking vs other amps?


 
   
  I'm not sure if the LCD3s are EASIER to drive or are they truly more resolving, but I find them incrementally better then LCD2s in almost all areas (law of diminishing returns I suppose).
   
  I don't feel any thing lacking and in fact I find myself hearing more in my music then before.  Not a STUNNING difference, but a difference none the less and one that I feel warrants 1k price difference.  If you already LOVE the LCD2 then the LCD3 may *not* be a worth while upgrade (yes NOT an upgrade), but if you were like me and wished the LCD2 were just a little bit more (insert you acoustic adjective here, for me it was smoother mid-range and better treble extension) then the LCD3 may warrant a listen.
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i like my LCD-2, but do wish it did a few things better, mostly a better soundstage and just a bit more refinement.


----------



## Sonicmasala

Maybe the LCD-3 should do the trick!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sonicmasala said:


> Maybe the LCD-3 should do the trick!


 
   
  I kinda of prefer LCD-2 v2 over LCD-3, the LCD-3 is too refine.


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> i like my LCD-2, but do wish it did a few things better, mostly a better soundstage and just a bit more refinement.




Lcd3 is definitely more refined and smoother all around while boosting clarity and improving on already great positioning. Overall soundstage, however, is the same.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

triple mighty 596!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> triple mighty 596!!!!


 
   
  Ooh! Ooh!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



 I need one I need a _Triple play!_ Where U gettin' ALL DAT Glass?!


----------



## moriez

Follow up on the WA3 issues I've been experiencing.
   
  -Resitting the transformer and loosening the nut on top virtually solves the mechanical hum. The hatch/cover itself was not causing it. Thanks again GrindingThud for helping me with this!
  -The right channel hum is very likely caused by the power tube. New ones are underway. For what it's worth and probably common knowledge, member realmassy has good experience using wire brush to solve tube hum.


----------



## JonasRas

Hey guys I sadly still have problems with my WA6. I've send this mail to Jack, and now i wanna hear your opinion, as to what's causing the problem.
  
 Hi Jack, I don't know if you have gotten my mails about the problem I've had with my WA6, sadly there still present. When I'm playing music through the amp, sometimes the right channel on my headphones go out, and becomes very mute and distorted, this only happens to the right channel. When i then pause the music, pull out the headphone jack, insert it again, and start the music again, the distortion is usually gone. I have tried to swap the tubes with each other to see if the distortion changed channel but it's the same outcome. I've also tried with different headphones but it's the same. Hope you can help me with my problem.
  
 Kind regards,
  
 Jonas


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> Hey guys I sadly still have problems with my WA6. I've send this mail to Jack, and now i wanna hear your opinion, as to what's causing the problem.
> 
> Hi Jack, I don't know if you have gotten my mails about the problem I've had with my WA6, sadly there still present. When I'm playing music through the amp, sometimes the right channel on my headphones go out, and becomes very mute and distorted, this only happens to the right channel. When i then pause the music, pull out the headphone jack, insert it again, and start the music again, the distortion is usually gone. I have tried to swap the tubes with each other to see if the distortion changed channel but it's the same outcome. I've also tried with different headphones but it's the same. Hope you can help me with my problem.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Did you try switching your left and right tubes to see if the failure follows the tubes?


----------



## Ultrainferno

He says he swapped the tubes


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> triple mighty 596!!!!


 
   
  Now the question is do you have the original boxes?


----------



## Clayton SF

Sounds like a jack problem--the headphone jack and not Jack Wu. 

Does the distortion from the right channel go away when you wiggle the jack while the headphones are plugged in and during a song?


----------



## JonasRas

clayton sf said:


> Sounds like a jack problem--the headphone jack and not Jack Wu.
> 
> Does the distortion from the right channel go away when you wiggle the jack while the headphones are plugged in and during a song?




I'll check next time there's a distortion.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Now the question is do you have the original boxes?


 
   
  yes!
   
  2 of them are in the united electronic boxes, one of them is in one of those plain boxes but is original with all the numbers and labels and packing date.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Now the question is do you have the original boxes?


 
   
  I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





do... for a couple of 'em.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!
> 
> 2 of them are in the united electronic boxes, one of them is in one of those plain boxes but is original with all the numbers and labels and packing date.


 
   


silent one said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   
  I got 3 tubes as well (2 of them are matched... you know just in case) and I got different boxes for them.  I'll show you mine if you show me yours.


----------



## JonasRas

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Sounds like a jack problem--the headphone jack and not Jack Wu.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It doesn't go away if I wiggle the jack. It seems to only go away when I switch headphones, not if I pull out and stick the same headphone back in.


----------



## Silent One

Being that you're so far away, I really hope you get this sorted. Not sure which but it sound like a loose connection somewhere inside, considering different headphones return the same behavior.


----------



## JonasRas

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Being that you're so far away, I really hope you get this sorted. Not sure which but it sound like a loose connection somewhere inside, considering different headphones return the same behavior.


 
   
  Me too!


----------



## magiccabbage

Eh Silent One  what beastly tubes you thinking of getting for that wa5?


----------



## Z06_Pilot

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> Hey guys I sadly still have problems with my WA6. I've send this mail to Jack, and now i wanna hear your opinion, as to what's causing the problem.
> 
> Hi Jack, I don't know if you have gotten my mails about the problem I've had with my WA6, sadly there still present. When I'm playing music through the amp, sometimes the right channel on my headphones go out, and becomes very mute and distorted, this only happens to the right channel. When i then pause the music, pull out the headphone jack, insert it again, and start the music again, the distortion is usually gone. I have tried to swap the tubes with each other to see if the distortion changed channel but it's the same outcome. I've also tried with different headphones but it's the same. Hope you can help me with my problem.
> 
> ...


 
  Tube amps are VERY susceptable to EMI/RFI.  Is it possible you have a cellphone in the immediate area of the amp?  whenever I have my cell near my WA22, I will get some wild static, audio cutouts, etc. and usually only on one channel.  soon as I move the cell away several feet, it goes away.  maybe it's not this simple, but hopefully it is?!


----------



## JonasRas

z06_pilot said:


> Tube amps are VERY susceptable to EMI/RFI.  Is it possible you have a cellphone in the immediate area of the amp?  whenever I have my cell near my WA22, I will get some wild static, audio cutouts, etc. and usually only on one channel.  soon as I move the cell away several feet, it goes away.  maybe it's not this simple, but hopefully it is?!




Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try it out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Eh Silent One  what beastly tubes you thinking of getting for that wa5?


 
   
  I'm trying very hard not to count Chickens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... you know, before they hatch. However, since 'Silent One' doesn't eat meat, I'll go ahead and speak up. 
   
  Likely: USAF-596; EML 300B-XLS; TGBGRP | VT-231
   
  In the event I do not get the _so very sexy_ Black WA5/WA5 monos, I'll place the '596' in the China 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




cabinet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm trying very hard not to count Chickens
> 
> ...


 
   
  great choice!!! no sophia 300b though? of course you'll buy those too, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







   


gloryuprising said:


> I got 3 tubes as well (2 of them are matched... you know just in case) and I got different boxes for them.  I'll show you mine if you show me yours.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> great choice!!! no sophia 300b though? of course you'll buy those too, right?


 
   





 I've got no income. And you suggest I roll 300B's, have I got that right?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've got no income. And you suggest I roll 300B's, have I got that right?


 
  is that the royal princess?


----------



## Silent One

Princess Carbon Plate - 300B (I believe...)


----------



## magiccabbage

A thing of beauty! I wanted to ask before but i kept forgetting. Do you use speakers as well or wait their are probably in storage too right?


----------



## Silent One

No speakers at this time. Will bring some in much later. Meanwhile, it's "Head-Fi" only right now. Which makes the Sansui G-22000/Denon D7000 pairing a bit odd.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No speakers at this time. Will bring some in much later. Meanwhile, it's "Head-Fi" only right now. Which makes the Sansui G-22000/Denon D7000 pairing a bit odd.


 
  I have never heard the d7000 before but they are one of the most gorgeous looking headphones out there IMO and with that receiver of your's it makes for an incredibly sexy visual pairing!! i'm finally gonna get to hear my wa2 as a preamp through keff r500 on friday. I cannot wait! when you get your wa5 is it gonna have the speaker option?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I have never heard the d7000 before but they are one of the most gorgeous looking headphones out there IMO and with that receiver of your's it makes for an incredibly sexy visual pairing!! i'm finally gonna get to hear my wa2 as a preamp through keff r500 on friday. I cannot wait! when you get your wa5 is it gonna have the speaker option?


 
   
  [size=x-small]D7000 @ 108dB/mW[/size][size=x-small] | 25 ohms? Who doesn't like [/size]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[size=small]overkill?! The 'WA5' is the speaker option; WA5-LE is the "non" version.[/size]
   
  [size=small]Seems you're going to have quite the Friday... _enjoy._[/size]


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> [size=x-small]D7000 @ 108dB/mW[/size][size=x-small] | 25 ohms? Who doesn't like [/size]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I know yea WA5-LE an all that. So your wa5 no speakers!!!!  how could you?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.................................


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've got no income. And you suggest I roll 300B's, have I got that right?


 
  But you've shown some serious interest in procuring a Glenn 300B Amp, a Glenn DC battery driven phonostage, and a Woo Audio 5. You must have some cash hidden under your pillow, yes?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> But you've shown some serious interest in procuring a Glenn 300B Amp, a Glenn DC battery driven phonostage, and a Woo Audio 5. You must have some cash hidden under your pillow, yes?


 
   
  Nah, still selling off possessions. Need a Car, Couch or 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cat? _Everything must go..._
   
  OH, 
   
  I successfully saved up for the WA5 already - but spent the money on the Sansui instead.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nah, still selling off possessions. Need a Car, Couch or
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  cat **** the cat has to go


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> cat **** the cat has to go


 
   
  Not my Cat - I'm selling the neighbor's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Cat! Well, it keeps hangin' out at my property, so...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not my Cat - I'm selling the neighbor's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Im more of a dog man - newfoundlanders all the way! I am certainly not bothered by you selling your neighours cat.


----------



## Silent One

Shhhh... just in case they're head-fier's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Nah, still selling off possessions. Need a Car, Couch or
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is so cool. I am a packrat. That is why I still have amps from 1854. WHAT?
   
  And you've got a great collection of amps yourself!!! Albeit reaching in weight alone close to the tonnage stage.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That is so cool. I am a packrat. That is why I still have amps from 1854. WHAT?
> 
> And you've got a great collection of amps yourself!!! Albeit reaching in weight alone close to the tonnage stage.


 
  1854 joke?? it is a joke right?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Me? Though neat & clean, I am not a pack-rat. Merely downsizing and changing lifestyles like lanes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


on the 405 Freeway... @ 3am.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> 1854 joke?? it is a joke right?


 
  Yes. Very much a joke. My first venture into the modern world of tube amps was in 2009.
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Me? Though neat & clean, I am not a pack-rat. Merely downsizing and changing lifestyles like lanes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I feel like my amps are like records, tapes, MP3s. Not in the mood at this time for this one, select another.


----------



## GloryUprising

gloryuprising said:


> I got 3 tubes as well (2 of them are matched... you know just in case) and I got different boxes for them.  I'll show you mine if you show me yours.


 

   
  Quote:


dubstep girl said:


>


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I feel like my amps are like records, tapes, MP3s. *Not in the mood at this time for this one, select another.*


 
   
  Brilliantly stated! I now have enough selection to change with my moods as well. I saw my first Woo in 2009 - the _WA 6 Special Edition._ Although, Single-Power was getting all the print, a few pix and discussions with WooAudio amps emerged and simply held my attention. The anodized cladding was gorgeous! Could not take my eyes off the twin chassis design.
   
  Then I began to see the rest of the line and prices - unemployed, couldn't afford none 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


of 'em! After perusing both WooAudio and Head-Fi for a couple of hours, I decided to take a break. And get some air on my way to the mailbox. As I exited through the garage, that's when it hit me! If I was going to get a Woo, I was going to have to liquidate something. Slowly, the sell-off began... _and I got good _



_at it._
   
  After successfully getting new Denon D5000's and my first tube amp (Woo), there was no stopping me, not even unemployment could hold me back! And I went on to establish 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


an entire listening room.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


>


 
   
  I've been busy of late. But, when I get the chance, I'm still going to see how I can turn the Woo adapters Black. I really like them ears
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



, though.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Brilliantly stated! I now have enough selection to change with my moods as well. I saw my first Woo in 2009 - the _WA 6 Special Edition._ Although, Single-Power was getting all the print, a few pix and discussions with WooAudio amps emerged and simply held my attention. The anodized cladding was gorgeous! Could not take my eyes off the twin chassis design.
> 
> Then I began to see the rest of the line and prices - unemployed, couldn't afford none
> 
> ...


 
  great stuff!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> great stuff!!


 
   
  Thanks. Good music (okay, gears & accessories too!) can be quite the motivator!


----------



## regular.guy

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Jack told me the end of June or probably sooner than that. I am picking it up in NY.  I may also be coming to the show in August. i jut check the flight out so I can get to meet you and hopefully lot of other headfliers if we get some more people to go to the meet.  Talk it up with the San Francisco contingency. Woo is one of the vendors coming.


 
  Congratulations on your upcoming addition to your system, Frank!  I have had my Wa5 for just 3 months now, it is the best headphone sound I have ever heard.   It has finally settled in (Blackgates and v-caps took a while to open).  I still have the stock tubs, although I am researching extensively for the right tube upgrades.  I haven't listened to my main rig for months now.  I hear everyone likes the LCD-2's with the Wa5.


----------



## GloryUprising

silent one said:


> I've been busy of late. But, when I get the chance, I'm still going to see how I can turn the Woo adapters Black. I really like them ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ya know, I kinda like the white Teflon. Contrast is nice. 

Been rolling other rectifiers. I don't think my amp like 596+6EM7. I keep getting pops. My tube guy thinks the 596 may be driving the 6EM7 too hard. Rolling the princess or my Mazda 5R4gy yields no pops. 

Weird. Thoughts?


----------



## Silent One

*SHAME ON ME! *




   
  I just took a break and got refreshed with an ice cold glass of milk... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


delic! Anyway, I just realized in my accounts when replying to fellow members Clayton SF & magiccabbage that I omitted a very important and key piece of info.
   
*Along the way...*
   
  ...while working tirelessly to sell and save, there are some wonderful head-fier's that deserve recognition, as they made contributions that helped me on my audio journey. In no particular order:
   
  Clayton SF
  shipsupt
  mikemalter
  Xcalibur255
  rosgr63
  2359glenn
  wotts
  musicman59
  grokit
  snapple10
  john57
  Ultrainferno
  jc9394
  Skylab
  Wualta
  moodyrn
  sarals
  sunmonkey
  dannie01
  BIG POPPA
   
_And others... _
   
  I'm going off the top of my head (maybe, another glass of milk?) but if I overlooked anyone in print, I have not done so in my heart - know that you are counted.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Ya know, I kinda like the white Teflon. Contrast is nice.
> 
> Been rolling other rectifiers. I don't think my amp like 596+6EM7. I keep getting pops. My tube guy thinks the 596 may be driving the 6EM7 too hard. Rolling the princess or my Mazda 5R4gy yields no pops.
> 
> Weird. Thoughts?


 
   
  Thoughts? Yes, yes I do. I'd like to have a scoop of sweet, creamy, decadent and ultra dense French Vanilla Custard. Oh, sorry. Regarding tubes, I sure do. Try the '596' paired with other drive tubes to see if you get pops. Don't worry about liking/disliking the parings right now, this is
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 research.
   
But, of course, this assumes you have other drive tubes. In my own experience, I found both "Miss Sophia" & the EML Glass to fair better with a wider variety of 6SN7 tubes in my inventory. Far less with the '596.' 
   
However, once I found a dance partner for the '596' it was over! No more stepping on each other's toes, the TS-BGRP's & '596' would dance the night away. I witnessed many a sunrise from overnight listening sessions with those two.


----------



## GloryUprising

silent one said:


> Thoughts? Yes, yes I do. I'd like to have a scoop of sweet, creamy, decadent and ultra dense French Vanilla Custard. Oh, sorry. Regarding tubes, I sure do. Try the '596' paired with other drive tubes to see if you get pops. Don't worry about liking/disliking the parings right now, this is
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Plenty of power tubes. The 596 and stock 6de7 is very nice indeed. I shall take your advice and try mire others with the 596.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Plenty of power tubes. The 596 and stock 6de7 is very nice indeed. I shall take your advice and try mire others with the 596.


 
   
  Curiously, what amp did/do you use for the power tubes?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


>


 
   
  nice! i have basically the same tubes + an EML 5U4G and a mullard black base gz34


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





regular.guy said:


> Congratulations on your upcoming addition to your system, Frank!  I have had my Wa5 for just 3 months now, it is the best headphone sound I have ever heard.   It has finally settled in (Blackgates and v-caps took a while to open).  I still have the stock tubs, although I am researching extensively for the right tube upgrades.  I haven't listened to my main rig for months now.  I hear everyone likes the LCD-2's with the Wa5.


 
  Thanks. I am looking forward to the WA5. I have the EML 300B for them and also have located some really nice 6C8G tube from 6/1945 brand new in the box an ordered the adapters. I also found some Tungsol oval (round) pates one pair is Jan military ad the other is not but both the same tubes and have the black paint. Rare tubes and all of these are unused old stock. I have all the tubes covered for a bit. I have matched pairs of Jan Sylvania 5u4G and RCA matched 5UrG plus the Philips 5R tubes to rise.   I am pretty set with the tubes. I should have the amp before the end of this month and will pick this up in NY from Jack.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Thanks. I am looking forward to the WA5. I have the EML 300B for them and also have located some really nice 6C8G tube from 6/1945 brand new in the box an ordered the adapters. I also found some Tungsol oval (round) pates one pair is Jan military ad the other is not but both the same tubes and have the black paint. Rare tubes and all of these are unused old stock. I have all the tubes covered for a bit. I have matched pairs of Jan Sylvania 5u4G and RCA matched 5UrG plus the Philips 5R tubes to rise.   I am pretty set with the tubes. I should have the amp before the end of this month and will pick this up in NY from Jack.


 
  Now frank you are going to have to get the camera out for that one! and don't be shy with the pic's because this thread need's more WA5 love in the visual department! WE WANT LOAD'S.....................  YOUR A LUCKY MAN.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Curiously, what amp did/do you use for the power tubes?


 
   
  WA6-SE Maxxed.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Now frank you are going to have to get the camera out for that one! and don't be shy with the pic's because this thread need's more WA5 love in the visual department! WE WANT LOAD'S.....................  YOUR A LUCKY MAN.


 
  I will do full picture spread with all the tubes. Those  6C8G are a neat tube too look at and George Lenz from EML told me about these tubes. I cant wait to get it but in the meantime I have other a,ps keeping me busy but the WA5 is a special amp indeed.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not sure
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I follow. My OTL amp uses power tubes; drive tube; rectifier. My _WA_ _6 Special Edition_ used only drive tubes; rectifier.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not sure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Opse.  I may be using the wrong vocab, still new at this tube thing.  I have a WA6-SE, so I suppose I mean 'driver tubes' (i have plenty of driver tubes).
   
  .... now what's the difference between 'driver' tubes and 'power' tubes???
   
  TIA.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Opse.  I may be using the wrong vocab, still new at this tube thing.  I have a WA6-SE, so I suppose I mean 'driver tubes' (i have plenty of driver tubes).
> 
> .... now what's the difference between 'driver' tubes and 'power' tubes???
> 
> TIA.


 
   
  The difference between the two will be _Power_. A vacuum tube amp's circuit design will determine what the requirements are for using which tubes. Add: Drive tubes are also known as preamp tubes; power tubes as output tubes (which some amps derive their names from). Corrections are welcome.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's a slow News day, exercise a bit of your 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Goog-fu_ to learn more...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Over the last few months I have done a couple of group buys for NOS 596 tube and NOS 2399/5998 Chatham tubes. The 596 was all out already and now the 2399 NOS tubes are gone as well. Only slightly used tested tubes available and unfortunately at the same price as well ($80).


----------



## bbophead

Unless I'm missing something (I'm ALWAYS missing something), the two small tubes in the WA6 are dual triodes which allows one half of the triode to drive and the other half to power.  Maybe that's how the 6SE works as well.


----------



## shipsupt

You're not missing a thing... that's how the 6SE works.


----------



## Silent One

Well stated bbophead. Design, design, design...


----------



## woophoria

First post, not just in thread, but at head-fi, seemed fitting to be here... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  About to get first Grado's, and though they are reportedly efficient and don't HAVE to have dedicated headphone amp, sounds like they benefit and really shine with one.
   
  I've never had a tube amp, but after doing some research, I'm very interested to take the plunge and hear with my own ears the difference between "warm" analog and "clinical" digital.
   
  The Woo Audio WA7 "fireflies", while a new product, sounds like it has a lot to recommend it... kind of the spearhead representing the best of several worlds, in that it is from a company both established with an acclaimed recent history in this niche of build quality, value and service, but also characterized by signature innovation.
   
  Also, it sounds like a marvel of engineering and convergence of functionality, with an extremely powerful headphone amp AND DAC, an amazingly small footprint and, non-trivially, not just good looking, but stunning, arguably game changing, best-in-class design and aesthetic. 
   
  It is also exciting to hear the buzz build in a relatively short time (just started shipping relatively recently?), with a few sources, both outside (Stereophile) and inside (here at Head-Fi and in the thread), in which this presumably isn't there first rodeo, raving about it and saying it is one of if not their favorite audiophile product of 2013.
   
  Looking forward to joining the club soon!


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> triple mighty 596!!!!


 
   
   
   

   
   
  Just like me...


----------



## Silent One

Wot... did I stumble upon a "Tripletts Convention?" Congrats!


----------



## JonasRas

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> Hey guys I sadly still have problems with my WA6. I've send this mail to Jack, and now i wanna hear your opinion, as to what's causing the problem.
> 
> Hi Jack, I don't know if you have gotten my mails about the problem I've had with my WA6, sadly there still present. When I'm playing music through the amp, sometimes the right channel on my headphones go out, and becomes very mute and distorted, this only happens to the right channel. When i then pause the music, pull out the headphone jack, insert it again, and start the music again, the distortion is usually gone. I have tried to swap the tubes with each other to see if the distortion changed channel but it's the same outcome. I've also tried with different headphones but it's the same. Hope you can help me with my problem.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have now found out what caused the distortion, and it turns out that the rectifier wasn't all the way in. I tried to wiggle it slightly and noticed that it could go further down. I had to use quite a bit of force but it's now all the way in, and I actually noticed quite a sound change to the better, so that's just great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Is it normal that it's tough to get it all the way in?


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> I have now found out what caused the distortion, and it turns out that the rectifier wasn't all the way in. I tried to wiggle it slightly and noticed that it could go further down. I had to use quite a bit of force but it's now all the way in, and I actually noticed quite a sound change to the better, so that's just great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No need to double post.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> I have now found out what caused the distortion, and it turns out that the rectifier wasn't all the way in. I tried to wiggle it slightly and noticed that it could go further down. I had to use quite a bit of force but it's now all the way in, and I actually noticed quite a sound change to the better, so that's just great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What a relief! You could have simple alignment issue - the pins themselves not being true or the holes they descend into. Also, not sure how clean and smooth your pins are. This is something I ensure with all tubes - I use both DeoxIT cleaner and lubricant.


----------



## nwavesailor

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What a relief! You could have simple alignment issue - the pins themselves not being true or the holes they descend into. Also, not sure how clean and smooth your pins are. This is something I ensure with all tubes - I use both DeoxIT cleaner and lubricant.


 

 I have replaced quite a few gummed up 9 pin and a few octal sockets after too much 'enhancer' has been used on tube pins or sockets. I know some of the newer Deoxit is better at higher temps, so it may prove to be fine. I have, however, seen too many examples of folks being heavy handed and gumming up the works. This is not a case of 'if a little is good, a lot is better!' when using these materials.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> No need to double post.


 
   
  Why not?  Are we running out of space on the internet?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nwavesailor said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




   
  You're not suggesting I'm "gummy" and addicted to DeoxIT... or are you? No, we keep it smooth, clean and silent over here!


----------



## Pustik

Woo audio 22 or Rockhopper B22 6-Channel?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





jonasras said:


> I have now found out what caused the distortion, and it turns out that the rectifier wasn't all the way in.
> . . .
> 
> Is it normal that it's tough to get it all the way in?


 
  It is common for it to take a bit of force to put a tube in.  It can take persistence and gentle rocking back and forth (never twist) to seat a tube.
   
  I am pleased to learn the problem was easily rectified.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pustik said:


> Woo audio 22 or Rockhopper B22 6-Channel?


 
   
  What headphone and source?  What type of genre and what you are looking for?  It is hard to say which one is better without telling us what you are after.


----------



## Pustik

jc9394 said:


> What headphone and source?  What type of genre and what you are looking for?  It is hard to say which one is better without telling us what you are after.



Flacs and waves only, 1440 quality audio from pc to burson da-160 then to amp. Listening mostly to jazz, flamenco guitar, classical piano, rarely hip-hop pop.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





pustik said:


> Flacs and waves only, 1440 quality audio from pc to burson da-160 then to amp. Listening mostly to jazz, flamenco guitar, classical piano, rarely hip-hop pop.


 
   
  I want to say WA22 since you did not specify headphone you will be using, tube amps has more flexibilities on matching headphones.


----------



## Pustik

jc9394 said:


> I want to say WA22 since you did not specify headphone you will be using, tube amps has more flexibilities on matching headphones.




Forgot to say that my headphones are hd800.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Tubes for sure then. OTL!


----------



## Xero

I listen to mainly 80's metal and 70's hard rock... how are the wooaudio.com's Sophia Princess and 6FD7 combo (WA6SE) with the LCD 2.2?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

not bad, the 6fd7 is pretty good with LCD-2. i think its about the best combo you can get with sophia if you can't find a 596


----------



## jc9394

X2 on 596 but I recommend Mullard GZ34 instead of the princess.


----------



## jc9394

pustik said:


> Forgot to say that my headphones are hd800.




Burson it slightly warm, get more neutral tubes combo like 5998, Treasure, and 596.


----------



## Xero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> not bad, the 6fd7 is pretty good with LCD-2. i think its about the best combo you can get with sophia if you can't find a 596


 
  Lol nope; tried searching and found zero results for the 596. Guess I will have to deal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Lot's of conflicting opinions about tubes I see looking through this thread... I think this looks like I'm going to be spending quite a bit experimenting sooner rather than later. :/


----------



## Dubstep Girl

can't find a 596? go for a black base Mullard GZ34 (metal base is nicer, if you can afford it).
   
  or just wait till someone sells, they come up on ebay once in a while and sometimes ppl sell here
   
  and sophia/6fd7 is still good for LCD-2.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm trying very hard not to count Chickens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  SO, you should also consider the TGBGRP 6F8G with adapters. I personally like them better that their 6SN7 brothers.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> SO, you should also consider the TGBGRP 6F8G with adapters. I personally like them better that their 6SN7 brothers.


 
   
  I did a couple of years back... couldn't find any and stopped looking. Then found some when I was neither looking or 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




had any money. I am definitely open to a new pursuit. Thanks for looking after me.


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> SO, you should also consider the TGBGRP 6F8G with adapters. I personally like them better that their 6SN7 brothers.


 
  What is it about the 6F8G that you like better than the 6SN7?


----------



## dminches

The TS 6F8G version of the 6SN7s are MUCH cheaper and there are 3 different versions that I have found - round, oval and square.


----------



## Frank I

You can also use the 6C8G with the same adapter. I have 4 pairs of National Union  made in June of 1945 in there original boxes and they are all new. I will seek out some 6F8G also.


----------



## Silent One

A very good question...


----------



## nwavesailor

I have TSRP 6SN7 and TSRP 6F8G but have not done A-B comparison. This may (will) sound a bit funny, but with the cost of the TungSol RP tubes I only checked them in my tester and have not fired them up. These may end up in a garage sale for $1 when I leave this planet which, I agree, would be a total waste!
   
  I tend to use National Union 6F8G round plates and like them quite a bit.


----------



## Silent One

Do you find your NU's microphonic at all?


----------



## nwavesailor

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Do you find your NU's microphonic at all?


 

 No, the NU pairs I have are both very quiet and not microphonic. The TS pairs, however, ARE  a bit microphonic.
   
  YMMV


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> What is it about the 6F8G that you like better than the 6SN7?


 
  IMO the 6F8G sound more dynamic and with a slightly bigger soundstage.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





nwavesailor said:


> I have TSRP 6SN7 and TSRP 6F8G but have not done A-B comparison. This may (will) sound a bit funny, but with the cost of the TungSol RP tubes I only checked them in my tester and have not fired them up. These may end up in a garage sale for $1 when I leave this planet which, I agree, would be a total waste!
> 
> I tend to use National Union 6F8G round plates and like them quite a bit.


 
  I also have a pair of NU and I agree with you.
   
  Have some Sylvania flat pates that sound pretty good too and are way cheaper than the round plates.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *musicman59* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> IMO the 6F8G sound more dynamic and with a slightly bigger soundstage.


 
   
  That's good enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for me!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> IMO the 6F8G sound more dynamic and with a slightly bigger soundstage.


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> That's good enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Not just the TS BGRP, overall I think 6F8G tubes have bigger soundstage.  Not to mention it is cheaper.


----------



## Frank I

My WA5 is complete. I am picking it up in NY on Friday. I am very excited.


----------



## Silent One

_We're_ very excited!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nwavesailor said:


> I have TSRP 6SN7 and TSRP 6F8G but have not done A-B comparison. This may (will) sound a bit funny, but with the cost of the TungSol RP tubes I only checked them in my tester and have not fired them up. These may end up in a garage sale for $1 when I leave this planet which, I agree, would be a total waste!
> 
> I tend to use National Union 6F8G round plates and like them quite a bit.




:O


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> My WA5 is complete. I am picking it up in NY on Friday. I am very excited.


 

 Maybe Jack will give you a tour of the Woo facilities while you're there to pick up your WA5. That would be great.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Maybe Jack will give you a tour of the Woo facilities while you're there to pick up your WA5. That would be great.


 
  Yea it would be great especially if frank snook his camera in!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Yea it would be great especially if frank snook his camera in!


 
   





 Shhhhhh!!! Our beloved Jack really does read these pages when time permits.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Maybe Jack will give you a tour of the Woo facilities while you're there to pick up your WA5. That would be great.


 
  I hope so. I will take a camera just in case.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> My WA5 is complete. I am picking it up in NY on Friday. I am very excited.


 
  Make sure you have help. They are heavy!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Make sure you have help. They are heavy!


 
  lol I think I can carry the 70 lb box


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i struggle with the 17lb WA2


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i struggle with the 17lb WA2


 
   Gym time little girl


----------



## longbowbbs

Frank's new Avatar....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Gym time little girl


 
   
  i should, but i'm really lazy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Frank's new Avatar....


 
   
   
  +1


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 
  you need a lot of roids to look like that


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Make sure you have help. They are heavy!


 
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> lol I think I can carry the 70 lb box


 
  Make that 75 lbs together


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> Make that 75 lbs together


 
  bette ryet plus the box and packaging


----------



## Frank I

George Lenz sent me my EML 300B so they are in the house with all the other great tubes I been buying the last couple of weeks. I am all set for this month .


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> George Lenz sent me my EML 300B so they are in the house with all the other great tubes I been buying the last couple of weeks. I am all set for this month .


 
  what is your listening list for the woo frank? now don't hold out i know you have made a long one ......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  If it were me i would have a long think as to what song and headphone goes in the motherload first!
  Will it be HD800 or LCD or maybe even the T1?


----------



## Frank I

Not sure it may even be the speakers first. I am getting used to speakers in the day time again and headphones at night.  I will work them all out.


----------



## Silent One

Heavy? BUT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought American Tourister invented the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


wheel?


----------



## jc9394

Hey SO, you should pick this up...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/641539/ic-eat-300b-matched-pair-now-500-and-actually-for-sale


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hey SO, you should pick this up...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I spoke with radiohead already but I just bought the EML 300B tubes for 550.00 so I am good for now.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Hey SO, you should pick this up...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Enticing but... we're liquidating over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here. Hope to recover by Aug/Sep.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Enticing but... we're liquidating over
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry guys but radiohead EAT tubes are mine now


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Sorry guys but radiohead EAT tubes are mine now


 
  Lucky guy...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Sorry guys but radiohead EAT tubes are mine now


 
   
  As they say, the rich can afford to EAT!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As they say, the rich can afford to EAT!


 
  Maybe I won't eat because of the EAT


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I spoke with radiohead already but I just bought the EML 300B tubes for 550.00 so I am good for now.


 
  IS SHE HERE YET FRANK -YOUR BABY?
  YOUR BIG BABY WOOOOOOOOOOOOO?
  your probably collecting it right now! we want pics, we want pics


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I spoke with radiohead already but I just bought the EML 300B tubes for 550.00 so I am good for now.


 
   
  If my memory still serve me well, Dannie01 once told me the EAT is a major step above the EML.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> If my memory still serve me well, Dannie01 once told me the EAT is a major step above the EML.


 
  I think he made that comment to me too. Will see when I get them and compare to my EML 300B Mesh.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  When Sajan of 6moons reviewed the WA5 and a few other 300B amps for tube combos, here's what he found worked best for him:
   

   
  Of course, this just considers samples he wanted to review, not ALL available tube makers. Also, drivers and rectifiers can change the presentation of the aforementioned amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> When Sajan of 6moons reviewed the WA5 and a few other 300B amps for tube combos, here's what he found worked best for him:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, this just considers samples he wanted to review, not ALL available tube makers. Also, drivers and rectifiers can change the presentation of the aforementioned amps.


 
  those yamamoto's are seriously vintage looking. what price are we talking? that AD1/AD-1M stereo amp is gorgeous!


----------



## Silent One

Your price will depend on: Exchange rate; Custom Duties; Importer. The A-09S 300B could range from $8k-$12. But luckily for me, the exchange rate between US/Japan has been in our favour here in the U.S., recently. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



*** Removed content. ***


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your price will depend on: Exchange rate; Custom Duties; Importer. The A-09S 300B could range from $8k-$12.


 
   
  And it is worth every pennies too...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your price will depend on: Exchange rate; Custom Duties; Importer. The A-09S 300B could range from $8k-$12.


 
  ouch - i waved good buy to speaker systems years ago anyway! i mean who has the wallet for that? maybe i shouldn't ask that on here


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The U.S. Importer already set aside high quality resistors and headphone jack for me. Should I decide to sell
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the car and buy it! I'm crossing the "t" & dotting the "i" just in case. 
   
  And later this autumn, 2359glenn will build me a high quality resistor box for speaker amp listening with a variable dial for about 4 impedances. This won't be a problem for the vintage iron, however.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The U.S. Importer already set aside high quality resistors and headphone jack for me. Should I decide to sell
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Woah, I will really need to make a trip to LA soon after you acquire all these amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The U.S. Importer already set aside high quality resistors and headphone jack for me. Should I decide to sell
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  "the vintage iron" nicely put


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woah, I will really need to make a trip to LA soon after you acquire all these amps.


 
   





 Not so fast! I've yet to earn the necessary funds to release my G-22000 & SX-D7000 from the repair shop. My babies need miss me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Ahhhh.... but when I do get things straightened out, _come on down._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not so fast! I've yet to earn the necessary funds to release my G-22000 & SX-D7000 from the repair shop. My babies need miss me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Where is the repair shop?  I will have them send me that G-22000 to Boston temporary.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I will personally deliver to you in the later days, it will give me more reason to get the Confidence C2 II...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Where is the repair shop?  I will have them send me that G-22000 to Boston temporary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Honestly? I may consider that - though, you'd being paying for shipping @ 93 lbs. Because it may take 2-3 months for me to get settled after relocation and it would just sit in storage.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Honestly? I may consider that - though, you'd being paying for shipping @ 93 lbs. Because it may take 2-3 months for me to get settled after relocation and it would just sit in storage.


 
  that 93lb will cost me a nikon lens for back and forth shipping and not to mention wife will kill me if i have two extreme large boxes speakers) showing up.  i think i have to better lay low for a while after all the nikon gear purchase.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> that 93lb will cost me a nikon lens for back and forth shipping and not to mention wife will kill me if i have two extreme large boxes speakers) showing up.  i think i have to better lay low for a while after all the nikon gear purchase.


 
   
  I'm almost certain your wife is one of world's sweetest. But a GIF of her shoving it out the window would go viral!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm almost certain your wife is one of world's sweetest. But a GIF of her shoving it out the window would go viral!


 
   
  the stupid thing i did was took her to audition the speakers so she is well aware of of the price tag.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> the stupid thing i did was took her to audition the speakers so she is well aware of of the price tag.


 
  ha ha - eh man just get rid of her!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> the stupid thing i did was took her to audition the speakers so she is well aware of of the price tag.


 
   
  The Internet leveled the playing field.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> The Internet leveled the playing field.




Maybe a "C" brand handbag will get me get out jail card.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> ha ha - eh man just get rid of her!




No, I rather not getting the speakers.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No, I rather not getting the speakers.


 
  good choice - speakers cant cook food!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Maybe a "C" brand handbag will get me get out jail card.


 
   
  All things considered, you learned to navigate the home pretty well. I miss working off 'Rodeo Drive'. Wait..._ I miss_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_working, period!_


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> IS SHE HERE YET FRANK -YOUR BABY?
> YOUR BIG BABY WOOOOOOOOOOOOO?
> your probably collecting it right now! we want pics, we want pics


 
  I thought today was Friday.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I thought today was Friday.


 
  tomorrow i am heading up to NY and having lunch with jack and getting the amp


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> tomorrow i am heading up to NY and having lunch with jack and getting the amp


 
  having lunch with jack eh. who's buying? ha ha just kidding. It will be a nice day out, lunch in new York and a WA5, id say your really looking forward to that - grub and a conversation master jack!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i keep forgetting how good hd 800s sound with WA2 and bugle boys. so smooth!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i keep forgetting how good hd 800s sound with WA2 and bugle boys. so smooth!


 
  i would love to hear the esperenza spalding song - ponta de areia - on the hd800 with WA2. have you got the track?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> the stupid thing i did was took her to audition the speakers so she is well aware of of the price tag.


 
  I guess she is not like my wife... last time I bought a pair of speakers I took her with me and I end up leaving the store with a better more expensive pair because their finish matched better our furniture... lucky me!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Maybe a "C" brand handbag will get me get out jail card.


 
  I don't think the "C" brand will make it. You will have to upgrade to the "L.V." brand


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I guess she is not like my wife... last time I bought a pair of speakers I took her with me and I end up leaving the store with a better more expensive pair because their finish matched better our furniture... lucky me!


 
   
  Lucky guy...
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I don't think the "C" brand will make it. You will have to upgrade to the "L.V." brand


 
   
  The "C" brand classic from Paris is a better choice than "Monsieur Vuitton" if I want to live.


----------



## jsgraha

You can always upgrade from a "C" to an "H". I'm sure your wife will allow you to buy a Woo Mono Block...


----------



## Silent One

I've always loved vintage, vertical LV & Goyard Trunks from last century. I'm thinking of re-purposing one to house some of my amps not in use. But close enough to have at the ready, while being showcased. A Woo here, a Sansui there and so on... will definitely take pix!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I've always loved vintage, vertical LV & Goyard Trunks from last century. I'm thinking of re-purposing one to house some of my amps not in use. But close enough to have at the ready, while being showcased. A Woo here, a Sansui there and so on... will definitely take pix!




Whoa SO, you are one sophisticated person.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Whoa SO, you are one sophisticated person.


 
   





 Working 1 blk west of Rodeo Drive, the two flagship stores closest to my door were Louis Vuiiton & Ermenegildo Zenga. And serving as a Chamber of Commerce Member (BevHills) supporting these businesses, a lot rubbed off. Just not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the money.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Working 1 blk west of Rodeo Drive, the two flagship stores closest to my door were Louis Vuiiton & Ermenegildo Zenga. And serving as a Chamber of Commerce Member (BevHills) supporting these businesses, a lot rubbed off. Just not
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Two of my flavorite brands, like you I absolutely love the LV trunks. It will looks really nice if a WA5 sit on top of it but if is not a good anti vibration platform.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Two of my flavorite brands, like you I absolutely love the LV trunks. It will looks really nice if a WA5 sit on top of it but if is not a good anti vibration platform.


 
   
  Display only - I would reinforce the shelves. Come play-time, I'd place whatever amp it is back on the audio rack. This way, the rack would not be cluttered with components I'm not using. And the vintage trunk would serve as a conversation piece. Well, until I'm asked _"Did that thing with the light bulbs come with the Trunk?"_


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Display only - I would reinforce the shelves. Come play-time, I'd place whatever amp it is back on the audio rack. This way, the rack would not be cluttered with components I'm not using. And the vintage trunk would serve as a conversation piece. Well, until I'm asked _"Did that thing with the light bulbs come with the Trunk?"_




LMAO, a perfect march. Ancient light bulbs with an antique LV trunk. Jack should ship the highend Woo in it.


----------



## Frank I

Got the WA5 and will shoot some pictures tomorrow. Man it sounds great and I just put the EML 300B and the Tungsol 6sn7 round plate black paint in with the Sylvania Matched pair Jan 5U4G. The  hd800 and the omegas never sounded this good. The hd800 on this amp is best I have ever heard them sound and the tubes amid amp is only playing 3 hours. Wifey forced me to switch to cans to watch her shows.


----------



## dminches

Tomorrow?  Now!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Tomorrow?  Now!


 
  Yes, now!


----------



## Frank I

LMAO. David you take better pictures than I do so come on over dude and start shooting with your D4


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Got the WA5 and will shoot some pictures tomorrow. Man it sounds great and I just put the EML 300B and the Tungsol 6sn7 round plate black paint in with the Sylvania Matched pair Jan 5U4G. The  hd800 and the omegas never sounded this good. The hd800 on this amp is best I have ever heard them sound and the tubes amid amp is only playing 3 hours. Wifey forced me to switch to cans to watch her shows.


 
   
  Well, in early reporting, we know the relationship 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is working. Man, we're ecstatic for you and would like to learn more about your lunch with Jack Wu from _WooAudio._


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Definitely


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> LMAO, a perfect march. Ancient light bulbs with an antique LV trunk. Jack should ship the highend Woo in it.


 
   
  I'd definitely be up for helping Jack do something like that - he could write it off for promotional consideration. Speaking of which, a couple of years ago, I was discussing my idea for a Woo product placement in one of the hot TV shows. I believe grokit and I decided Will Gardner on "The Good Wife" could prove to be a great match.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, in early reporting, we know the relationship
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It was just a normal lunch. Jack is a friend and we went to a nice Maylasian restaurant.  He is working on some new projects and getting his flagship 15K finalized. That should be an interesting amp but it out of reach for me. Woo will be at the California Audio Show but not jack. He is sending a great guy form his company. Jack will be at the Hong Kong show the same weekend. But Woo and thir products will be well represented at the Headmaster.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> It was just a normal lunch. Jack is a friend and we went to a nice Maylasian restaurant.  He is working on some new projects and getting his flagship 15K finalized. That should be an interesting amp but it out of reach for me. Woo will be at the California Audio Show but not jack. He is sending a great guy form his company. Jack will be at the Hong Kong show the same weekend. But Woo and thir products will be well represented at the Headmaster.


 

 did you go for black or silver for your Wa5?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> did you go for black or silver for your Wa5?


 
  Silver


----------



## Frank I




----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Got the WA5 and will shoot some pictures tomorrow. Man it sounds great and I just put the EML 300B and the Tungsol 6sn7 round plate black paint in with the Sylvania Matched pair Jan 5U4G. The  hd800 and the omegas never sounded this good. The hd800 on this amp is best I have ever heard them sound and the tubes amid amp is only playing 3 hours. Wifey forced me to switch to cans to watch her shows.


 
   
  Quote: 





dminches said:


> Tomorrow?  Now!


 
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  As I said to David, without pics, it didn't happen...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Silver


 
  Nice. All my Woo amps are silver.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Nice. All my Woo amps are silver.


 
  You should add the WA5 to your collection if you do not have it.  What is one more amp Clayton


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> You should add the WA5 to your collection if you do not have it.  _*What is one more amp*_ Clayton


 
  One less shelf space.  Or two less shelf space in the case of the WA5.
  Did they come in two wooden crates or is Jack now shipping them in cardboard boxes? They must be at least 30 lbs each. (I think we've discussed the weight before but I can't find it.)
  Happy listening.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> One less shelf space.  Or two less shelf space in the case of the WA5.
> Did they come in two wooden crates or is Jack now shipping them in cardboard boxes? They must be at least 30 lbs each. (I think we've discussed the weight before but I can't find it.)
> Happy listening.


 
  They came in cardboard boxes with Styrofoam and well protected but I picked them up in NY . I am a 2 hr drive.  It was also good to be back home for the day.  The amp and the power supply are 75 lbs.  I have both on the same shelf. My top shelf is also removable so its easy to work with swapping tubes. I like the EML and Tunsgsol black paint and the Sylvania in there for now. I tried the 6c8G and I like the Black paint tungsol much better. I need to try the 6f tubes next and will seek out a pair.
   
  On another note the Shuguang 300-98 B are really a nice tube as well. I also will use the Shuggie 274B at some point but for now I am using this combo.  I am thinking about some EML 5U4G mesh plates


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The amp and the power supply are 75 lbs.
> 
> On another note the Shuguang 300-98 B are really a nice tube as well.


 
   
  75 lbs! Well I have to wait until my foot heals before I haul 75 lbs up 4 flights of stairs. Maybe I'll wait until I can get some help from Ultrainferno. 
   
  Where did you buy your Shuguang 300-98B. What does the -98B stand for? How different is the -98B from a 300B?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 75 lbs! Well I have to wait until my foot heals before I haul 75 lbs up 4 flights of stairs. Maybe I'll wait until I can get some help from Ultrainferno.
> 
> Where did you buy your Shuguang 300-98B. What does the -98B stand for? How different is the -98B from a 300B?


 
   
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> 75 lbs! Well I have to wait until my foot heals before I haul 75 lbs up 4 flights of stairs. Maybe I'll wait until I can get some help from Ultrainferno.
> 
> Where did you buy your Shuguang 300-98B. What does the -98B stand for? How different is the -98B from a 300B?


 
  Two separate boxes and they have handles so 35 pound in one box and about 40 in the other.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Two separate boxes and they have handles so 35 pound in one box and about 40 in the other.


 
  The Shunguang 300-98 came with the amp stock. They are availabe fro a number of good vendors for 219.00  pair matched.  I Believe the 98 is just  model number but not sure.  They sound good though


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice pics!!!!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nice pics!!!!


 
  thanks. When you ordering yours? This will be my last tube amp. Its really good and not even burned in yet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> thanks. When you ordering yours? This will be my last tube amp. Its really good and not even burned in yet.


 
   
  many many years from now lol


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> many many years from now lol


 
   






 C'mon DG, get in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




there! Okay, I do understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the importance of education, though...


----------



## woophoria

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Nice. All my Woo amps are silver.


 
  silver is the new black. 
   
  * awesome pictures, congrats frank, i believe you in stating this will be your last tube amp.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





silent one said:


> C'mon DG, get in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  X2 jump on board one  small monthly payment for terrific sound little girl
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This is it. This is what the hobby is about


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would like to welcome everyone to the monthly meeting of the "Enabler's Club".....


----------



## Silent One

Now I'm feeling t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e . . .


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now I'm feeling t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e . . .


 
  Don't feel bad....Here have a tube and listen to some music....


----------



## Silent One

Won't fit on my iPod. Currently, I am resigned to listening to my iPod... or notebook. A re-calibration of my senses, if you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 would.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Won't fit on my iPod. Currently, I am resigned to listening to my iPod... or notebook. A re-calibration of my senses, if you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I can see Glenn making an adapter...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> X2 jump on board one  small monthly payment for terrific sound little girl
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> C'mon DG, get in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  oh not too worried about education right now. i graduated last year and just got a job a few weeks ago. but i have to save up for a new car (the one i have right now runs great but its getting old with 113k+ miles), finish repaying some of the loans on school (not much left luckily), as well as saving up for other important things. as far as audio equipment and electronics, a new tv and a few small upgrades would be nice. the WA5 would just be a huge investment, and i don't know if its the best amp for everything. not to mention, having to get new tubes (i have like no tubes, but its a lot of money already in them).
   
  this year i'm just hoping to save up for a car, and buy myself a new TV + either a new dac or upgrade one of my headphones, thats about it.  but next year or 2......


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh not too worried about education right now. i graduated last year and just got a job a few weeks ago. but i have to save up for a new car (the one i have right now runs great but its getting old with 113k+ miles), finish repaying some of the loans on school (not much left luckily), as well as saving up for other important things. as far as audio equipment and electronics, a new tv and a few small upgrades would be nice. the WA5 would just be a huge investment, and i don't know if its the best amp for everything. not to mention, having to get new tubes (i have like no tubes, but its a lot of money already in them).
> 
> this year i'm just hoping to save up for a car, and buy myself a new TV + either a new dac or upgrade one of my headphones, thats about it.  but next year or 2......


 
   




   
   
  Gratzie, you Grad you!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh not too worried about education right now. i graduated last year and just got a job a few weeks ago. but i have to save up for a new car (the one i have right now runs great but its getting old with 113k+ miles), finish repaying some of the loans on school (not much left luckily), as well as saving up for other important things. as far as audio equipment and electronics, a new tv and a few small upgrades would be nice. the WA5 would just be a huge investment, and i don't know if its the best amp for everything. not to mention, having to get new tubes (i have like no tubes, but its a lot of money already in them).
> 
> this year i'm just hoping to save up for a car, and buy myself a new TV + either a new dac or upgrade one of my headphones, thats about it.  but next year or 2......


 
   
  By the looks of your headphone/headphone amp inventory, it looks like you've doing pretty well for having just graduated last year. Congratulations! I think that you'll be very successful presently and in the future.


----------



## jc9394

DG, don't listen to the devils like me. You have plenty of chances in the future.


----------



## Silent One

Plus, there'll be new product coming from the manufacturer in the future.


----------



## magiccabbage

great pics frank. congrats on the new amp. have you tried the t1 yet with it?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Gratzie, you Grad you!!!


 
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> By the looks of your headphone/headphone amp inventory, it looks like you've doing pretty well for having just graduated last year. Congratulations! I think that you'll be very successful presently and in the future.


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> DG, don't listen to the devils like me. You have plenty of chances in the future.


 
   
  thanks guys!!


----------



## magiccabbage

if jack is doing his finishing touches on the WA-234 i wonder who will be the first buyer?


----------



## helljudgement

HD800+WA2. This combo is sublime. Having owned the 600s before I'll say this is a big step up from a technical standpoint. Its soundstage and imaging is beyond belief. However, it is utterly relentless and will stop at nothing to rip your source apart to reveal its true nature but this I feel is a testament of what a good headphone can do. On to the amp. The wa2 is a fantastic amp. Incredibly smooth and very wide sounding. I've heard the hd800 on two amps the conductor(briefly) and the wa2. The conductor is more detail sounding and more punchy compared to the wa2. The wa2 on the other hand makes the hd800 smooth. It takes the edge off some songs and makes vocals incredibly seductive. Roll in some Sylvania 7236 and it sounds like a veil has been lifted compared to stock 6080s. Can't wait to see what the wa2 can do once I've replace the stock driver tubes with something more substantial but right now there's hardly any reason for me to do so as this combo just sounds so right. I'll go as far as to say this combo is by far and away the best I've heard so far though I've yet to hear the likes of lcd3 and the he6. But with the hd800 sounding this good its hard to find a reason for me to try the others out.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> great pics frank. congrats on the new amp. have you tried the t1 yet with it?


 
  Yes. The T1 sounds excellent on the WA5 . More when I review the T1 but it sound really good.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> if jack is doing his finishing touches on the WA-234 i wonder who will be the first buyer?


 
  Jack has a few preorders on the WA-234 unfortunately I cannot afford them.  They are still working on the final models .


----------



## GloryUprising

You guys are killin' me.  My WA6-SE is packed up in storage and now I'm gettin' the bug to listen to it... GRRRRR


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> You guys are killin' me.  My WA6-SE is packed up in storage and now I'm gettin' the bug to listen to it... GRRRRR


 
  There are some things that should never be packed up and put in storage.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bbophead said:


> There are some things that should never be packed up and put in storage.


 
   
  True. But, I didn't have a choice in my case... the entire rack is in storage. An opportunity for me to get out and hear more live music, I suppose.


----------



## Silent One

*"Happy Father's Day!"*


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





bbophead said:


> There are some things that should never be packed up and put in storage.


 
   
  My whole apartment is a storage container. Amps at the ready. I am the master at unpacking and repacking of amps on the fly.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am thinking about some EML 5U4G mesh plates


 
   
  I have a pair of these.  L.O.V.E.  They're a perfect match for the WA-5.
   
  I've tried 5 different drivers and wound up the Sylvania 6SN7 as my go-to pair.  I tried the PSVANE T2 series 181, but the Sylvania's beat them out on bass.  
   
  I have the same EML 300B mesh.  
   
  Awesome amp.  Congrats


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I have a pair of these.  L.O.V.E.  They're a perfect match for the WA-5.
> 
> I've tried 5 different drivers and wound up the Sylvania 6SN7 as my go-to pair.  I tried the PSVANE T2 series 181, but the Sylvania's beat them out on bass.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Have you tried the Sophia Electric 6SN7?  They beat out my Sylvania on bass.  A really great tube.


----------



## grokit

Quote:  





> I was discussing my idea for a Woo product placement in one of the hot TV shows. I believe grokit and I decided Will Gardner on "The Good Wife" could prove to be a great match.


 
   
  If House was still on the air, a Woo woold look fine next to his Sota tt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


>


 
   
  Congrats on the new Woo!
   
  Good thing you went with silver, that cabinet looks like it has good protection from dust but if you put the black version in there you may never find it again!
  End game for sure
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> They came in cardboard boxes with Styrofoam and well protected but I picked them up in NY . I am a 2 hr drive.  It was also good to be back home for the day.  The amp and the power supply are 75 lbs.  I have both on the same shelf.* My top shelf is also removable so its easy to work with swapping tubes*. I like the EML and Tunsgsol black paint and the Sylvania in there for now. I tried the 6c8G and I like the Black paint tungsol much better. I need to try the 6f tubes next and will seek out a pair.


 
   
  I was wondering about that, the space seemed a bit challenged vertically...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If House was still on the air, a Woo woold look fine next to his Sota tt


 
   





 You know what you speaketh!


----------



## walls

Joining the club......ordered a WA2 yesterday!!! My setup right now is a LD2++, HD650 and 598 and my source is ipod touch run out of an Ipure dock, I am also going to be ordering a Schiit Bifrost with the "uber" analog outs.
   
  I am REALLY hoping that there is going to be a worthwhile upgrade in sound quality with the money I am spending. lol.
   
  Now I wait.....


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





grokit said:


> If House was still on the air, a Woo woold look fine next to his Sota tt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks Vince. The tubes fit with the adapters so it was not an issue .  The reason i stood away from black was the dust. This is easy to work with a sI can remove the top shelf so it easy to work with the tubes and it all fit easily in the rack. I am very excited and happy with this amp. Speakers also sound great so I am listening to Omega 3T monitors during the day again.


----------



## musicman59

I received the EAT 300B from Radio-head on Monday. I have not had the chance to do extended listening with them but here are my first impressions compared to my EML 300B Mesh.
  First of all Radio-head's packaging of the tubes was one of the best I have ever seen. It was impressive!. The EAT tubes are actually shorter in height compare to the EML.
  The listening was done using a pair of TS BG/RP 6F8G Emerson branded and the USF 596 rectifiers. The headphones were the AudioTechnica W3000ANV.
   
  The EAT sound flavor is radically different to the EML sound IMO. The seem more dynamic but I think it is an illusion created by the more aggressive sound characteristic. They also appear to be cleaner but I think it is because the lack the deep bass and warmth the EML have. This "cleaner" sound also provides the sens of a bigger soundstage.
   
  To me the EAT sound is more punchy, detailed, fast and to a point dry where the EML sound is warmer, organic and romantic.
   
  Some experimenting with different drivers and rectifiers is next in a few days.


----------



## Frank I

Interesting comments on the EAT tubes.   i am using the regular EML 300B and it sounds excellent . I am using tungol black pain round plates 6sn7GT and I currently have RCA 5U4G as the rectifiers.  I like this combo. I also fonf the stock shuguang 300B-98 to be a very nice tube


----------



## Silent One

Looking forward to another ride with _The Black Beauty..._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I received the EAT 300B from Radio-head on Monday. I have not had the chance to do extended listening with them but here are my first impressions compared to my EML 300B Mesh.
> First of all Radio-head's packaging of the tubes was one of the best I have ever seen. It was impressive!. The EAT tubes are actually shorter in height compare to the EML.
> The listening was done using a pair of TS BG/RP 6F8G Emerson branded and the USF 596 rectifiers. The headphones were the AudioTechnica W3000ANV.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can you please try it with HD800 when you have a chance?


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Can you please try it with HD800 when you have a chance?


 
  Yes I will but it probably won't happen until next week because I have family coming into town tonight through Sunday.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yes I will but it probably won't happen until next week because I have family coming into town tonight through Sunday.


 
   
  No hurries, I'm very interest on this combo as my toy budget getting funds by sell old camera lens.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> No hurries, I'm very interest on this combo as my toy budget getting funds by sell old camera lens.


 
   






 Sellers Club - we are wise... _and similar._


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sellers Club - we are wise... _and similar._


 
   
  Has to, wifey not allowing to put in anymore toy budget.  somethings gotta gives, prefer the lens that is sitting in the draw than my beta22 or wa22.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Has to, wifey not allowing to put in anymore toy budget.  somethings gotta gives, prefer the lens that is sitting in the draw than my beta22 or wa22.


 
   
  Diamond in the rough --
   
  There's a hidden gem in all of this. Constraints from your wife, and well.......... from your 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 wife, could actually take your listening experience higher. Think heightened senses and greater appreciation in the face of a shorter supply of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




audio/musical pleasure.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





teknikk7 said:


> Have you tried the Sophia Electric 6SN7?  They beat out my Sylvania on bass.  A really great tube.


 
   
  No, haven't tried the Sofia.  I have been looking for super-responsive bass tubes because the EML 300B mesh, while an utterly spectacular tube, could you a little bit of bass 'umph'.  So a responsive bass driver really rounds out the tubeset nicely.


----------



## helljudgement

I've just noticed that my wa2 hiss whenever my hand touch the volume knob. But when I removed my hand the hiss disappear. 1st noticed this back when I was using the Hd600 but this become more obvious when I use the hd800. Doesn't happen with my previous amp though. Has anyone who's own a wa2 notice this issue? Is it something I should worry about?


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Interesting comments on the EAT tubes.   i am using the regular EML 300B and it sounds excellent . I am using tungol black pain round plates 6sn7GT and I currently have RCA 5U4G as the rectifiers.  I like this combo. I also fonf the stock shuguang 300B-98 to be a very nice tube


 
   
  I would love to hear from someone who has the Sophia Royal Princess 300B.  I'm very curious how they sound-- especially compared to the EML.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Can you please try it with HD800 when you have a chance?


 
   
  I have the HD800 with the EML 300B Mesh, EML 5U4G Mesh, Sylvania drivers.  Haven't heard a headphone/amp combo that sounds better.  
   
  I got a chance to audition the LCD 3 at the OC show a few weekends ago.  They weren't paired with a Woo, but they had some super tube amp they touted and I came away convinced the HD800 and WA5 was a better package.  I was prepared to throw down some cash and pick up a pair of LCDs-- but they didn't impress me as I expected they might.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I have the HD800 with the EML 300B Mesh, EML 5U4G Mesh, Sylvania drivers.  Haven't heard a headphone/amp combo that sounds better.


 
   
  I had tried EML 300B, 5U4G, with TS BGRP when I have my friend's WA5 in my house and love the combo.  I'm more interested "musicman59"'s impression on EAT 300B with HD800.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

This may be a little off topic, and if this is in the wrong place, I apologize.
   
  I am fairly new to the headphone world, but not to the hi-fi game.  Anyway, I recently invested in a pair of HD600's and I have settled on a Woo amp for them and I am torn between the WA2, WA6se and the WA7.  I've never owned a tube amp before and definitely want the tube sound.
   
  In the future I could myself growing into a pair of HD800's or something of similar caliber and I don't want to have to change my amp at that point, hence, I am not really considering the WA3 or WA6.
   
  From what I've read, the WA2 is the more 'tubey' sounding, the WA6se is the fastest, punchiest and the WA7 is...  Well, that's just is.  I've read nothing be great things about this little amp but not much directly comparing it to the other two.  I listen to a lot of classical, jazz and blues, but do venture in to other genres.  
   
  I am inclined to not consider the WA6SE because, from what I have read, it seems to be the least 'tubey' of the three.
   
  Right now I don't think tube rolling will really be my thing, but I've never done it, so who knows.  My point is that the fact that the WA7 doesn't really offer this doesn't bother me.  Also, the fact that it has a built in DAC is nice, but not of a huge concern to me.
   
  I am really interesting in contrasting the amps sonically, out of the box (ie stock), and ignoring 'features' (tube rolling and DAC).  Also the price difference of the three is nominal in my eyes, so I don't want that to be a factor.
   
  Phew.  Sorry for the long post, and thanks for hanging in this long...
   
  So here is my question, in your opinion, which of the three is the most musical and involving?  Which one has the most "captivation" power?  I know this is subjective, and I can't audition them first, so I reaching out the expertise on this forum.  
   
  Thank you kindly,
   
  -Paul


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2 if you plan on sticking wiith 300-600 ohm senns and beyers. great amp, very musical and smooth. the WA6-SE is very good with the right tubes and has better soundstage, detail, and dynamics, but not as full and sweet silky smooth sounding, its more SS sounding but its still a tube amp. 
   
  im sure you'll be very happy if you get WA7 though, has a DAC, no tube rolling, works with tons of headphones, and very musical, also looks good. the WA6-SE has more power + tube rolling options and WA2 is better but only if you use high impedance headphones, low impedance won't work that great.


----------



## Timekiller

My WA7 just shipped.  Can't wait to join the Woo appreciation frenzy.


----------



## Silent One

Are those your Senns waiting to pounce and pair up? O and congrats on your Woo!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thanks for the input, Dubstep Girl.  You're posts have been very helpful (you're all over these forums!).
   
  Have you used the WA7 yourself?  Which more more tubey sounding and musical - the WA7 or WA2?
   
  Also, as far as soundstage goes, which is superior and is it by a large margin?  Again, the WA7 or WA2.
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks for the input, Dubstep Girl.  You're posts have been very helpful (you're all over these forums!).
> 
> Have you used the WA7 yourself?  Which more more tubey sounding and musical - the WA7 or WA2?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't discount the fact that the WA7 has a decent DAC in it.  Consider your source.  If you're coming out of a computer, an included DAC is a major sales feature.  An outboard DAC can run hundreds or even thousands.  
   
  I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other, I've heard neither amp.  But this hobby can suck dollars from your wallet in a big hurry if you don't have a plan before you start.  
   
  Don't ask me how I know!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thanks for your input, Reeltime.
   
  I suppose the reason I am discounting the DAC is because I don't mind getting an appropriate DAC for the WA2.  I am trying to build a rig that I am going to be happy with long term (I'm not they type to buy and sell) and if I have to add components as I go, I'm fine with that.  I just want to avoid upgrading, or re-buying parts.  I suppose I see it like this, a good amp will be a good amp for years and years.  A good pair of cans will be a good pair of cans for years and years.  A good DAC is good while it's current.  Look at DAC's from 5 years ago, they are 'out of date'.  How will the good DAC's of today look in 5, 10 or 20 years from now?  Will USB even be around?  I don't know, but I bet it will have been replaced by something else.  Long term, I may have to buy an external DAC for the WA7 anyway.  Formats change too quickly for my to really give them relevancy.  15 years ago TOSLINK was the end of other audio connections (or at least it was thought early on).  No, gear often doesn't even support it, it's all HDMI.
   
  Sorry for the rant...  The thing with the WA7 is that if it is a good amp, I can bypass the internal DAC when need be and continue to use it as an amp.  This is why I am not really considering the DAC as a major part because I see it as a very temporary part of the unit, and I am interested only in the amp part.
   
  I will say this though, the WA7 is less money than the WA2 and includes a DAC and I am having a hard time finding which is a "better" amp - that really shows the exceptional value of the WA7.


----------



## Rawrbington

somebody rec a pair of drive tubes for my 6SE.  it currently has the Ratheon fat tubes in it.  Im not sure which tube they are.  i know its shameful.  they came with the amp and the seller didn't know either.  I think i had it figured out  when i first had it but have since forgotten. 
   
  anyways.  ideas on a pair of driver tubes to roll in and try in place of the Ratheons.  Theres not really anything i don't like about the current tubes.  Just wanting to try something different.  Will be used the LCD2's.
   
  edit:  they are 6EW7 Raytheons


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> somebody rec a pair of drive tubes for my 6SE.  it currently has the Ratheon fat tubes in it.  Im not sure which tube they are.  i know its shameful.  they came with the amp and the seller didn't know either.  I think i had it figured out  when i first had it but have since forgotten.
> 
> anyways.  ideas on a pair of driver tubes to roll in and try in place of the Ratheons.  Theres not really anything i don't like about the current tubes.  Just wanting to try something different.  Will be used the LCD2's.
> 
> edit:  they are 6EW7 Raytheons


 

   
  Mid-1940's Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates
  VT-231/6SN7GT (matched pair)
   
  I am privately screening these tubes for sale... PM suggested.


----------



## kchew

I finally got off my lazy ass to take photos of my Hong Kong tubes with the 85mm f/1.4 AIS I bought on the same trip:
   

   

   
  The Psvane CV-181T II gave off a chemical stink for the first 10 hours I used them, anyone else experienced the same thing with their tubes? At least it wasn't as bad as the stupid haze my country is experiencing now.


----------



## Silent One

Was saddened 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





to hear about the air quality, kchew. Your 'glass' is nicely presented, as is usually the case. Can't wait to learn more about what you hear.


----------



## jc9394

kchew said:


> I finally got off my lazy ass to take photos of my Hong Kong tubes with the 85mm f/1.4 AIS I bought on the same trip:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How do you like the GEC? I find it excellent pairing with HD800 but no so much with LCD.

The Nikon 85 f/1.4 is one if the finest Nikon has to offer, I had the AIS version back in the good old film days now I have the G version. The AIS has much better build than the G version.


----------



## kchew

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Was saddened
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This was what I woke up to on Friday morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  As for the Psvane, it's one of my top 5 drivers right now. I don't think I've hit the 100 hours recommended by Psvane for burning in yet, but right now it has a sweet combination of deep, punchy bass, extended but not shrill treble, and realistic soundstaging and imaging. And this particular combination with the 596 and GEC 6080 is a rare combination that works well with all my headphones (HD800, ATH-AD2000 and AKG K240 Sextett).
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How do you like the GEC? I find it excellent pairing with HD800 but no so much with LCD.
> 
> The Nikon 85 f/1.4 is one if the finest Nikon has to offer, I had the AIS version back in the good old film days now I have the G version. The AIS has much better build than the G version.


 
   
  I like the GEC so much that this pair is my third pair. Gotta have spares for what you like eh?
   
  The 85mm was an impulse buy after browsing the many camera shops. I don't really need an 85mm, but when I found it for USD600 I jumped on it and didn't regret it one bit.


----------



## Silent One

That IS rare when one's tube complement satisfies a group of headphones.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





kchew said:


> I finally got off my lazy ass to take photos of my Hong Kong tubes with the 85mm f/1.4 AIS I bought on the same trip:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  i got the cv181 too.  no fuss.  just sweet sound.


----------



## magiccabbage

question here - can the tung sol 5998 go in the WA22 (i presume it can because of the 6080) if it can why are there no pics of it in this amp? does is sound bad of something?


----------



## magiccabbage

oh right here is one - sorry
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/572944/fs-black-woo-audio-wa22-balanced-headphone-amp-nice


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> somebody rec a pair of drive tubes for my 6SE.  it currently has the Ratheon fat tubes in it.  Im not sure which tube they are.  i know its shameful.  they came with the amp and the seller didn't know either.  I think i had it figured out  when i first had it but have since forgotten.
> 
> anyways.  ideas on a pair of driver tubes to roll in and try in place of the Ratheons.  Theres not really anything i don't like about the current tubes.  Just wanting to try something different.  Will be used the LCD2's.
> 
> edit:  they are 6EW7 Raytheons


 
   


 Hi, I have a heap of tubes that i am just starting to put up for sale for a WA6 SE i purchased a WA5 LE about 10 months a go so the WA6SE has not had no use time for it to go as well over the next weeks or so when i get around to listing it. Anyway have some tubes up on Fly-bay i will list them here at a lesser cost. Here is the link i have around 30 sets of tubes for this amp all different kinds.
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130932170373?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130932209937?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## shipsupt

I have been in Singapore when the fires are burning in Indonesia, it is brutal. It's hell on the lungs. I understand this year has been one of the worst. Hopefully the winds will shift and you'll get some relief.
   
  Quote: 





kchew said:


> This was what I woke up to on Friday morning.


----------



## Glam Bash

rawrbington said:


> somebody rec a pair of drive tubes for my 6SE.  it currently has the Ratheon fat tubes in it.  Im not sure which tube they are.  i know its shameful.  they came with the amp and the seller didn't know either.  I think i had it figured out  when i first had it but have since forgotten.
> 
> anyways.  ideas on a pair of driver tubes to roll in and try in place of the Ratheons.  Theres not really anything i don't like about the current tubes.  Just wanting to try something different.  Will be used the LCD2's.
> 
> edit:  they are 6EW7 Raytheons






Go with 6de7 or 6fd7(more gain). I found the 6DR7(international branded) too bright with the HE-500. The Stock Sylvania 6EW7 have a nice midrange but were soft in the bass and lower treble on up. Small scale ensembles and vocals were gorgeous, but they just couldn't do rock music.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> question here - can the tung sol 5998 go in the WA22 (i presume it can because of the 6080) if it can why are there no pics of it in this amp? does is sound bad of something?




It is one of the best sounding for WA22...

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww264/jc9394/WA22/PAS_3709.jpg


----------



## kepke

Hi all, 
   
  First post!
   
  Did anybody compared the Shuguang and Psvane CV-181 (the treasures vs mark II) on WA22?
  And do any of you have any idea what's the difference between "grade A" and "collection grade" for the Psvane (the price difference is more than 100$)?
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## reeltime

I made the jump and picked up a pair of 596s to audition in my WA5.  I'm assuming they need a base adapter for the wires to the filaments.  Do I get these from Woo?


----------



## Silent One

Yes.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is one of the best sounding for WA22...
> 
> http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww264/jc9394/WA22/PAS_3709.jpg


 
  Wow what are those Driver tubes they are stunning! i would nearly buy them just as ornaments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Do you know if jack can make the WA22 with a speaker pre-amp function? has anyone asked for this before?


----------



## dminches

Or glenn2359


----------



## Silent One

Though, keep in mind, our resident artist is going on vacay this week...


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is one of the best sounding for WA22...
> 
> http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww264/jc9394/WA22/PAS_3709.jpg


 
   
  Wow, she's beautiful...


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is one of the best sounding for WA22...
> 
> http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww264/jc9394/WA22/PAS_3709.jpg


 
  The 6F8G adapters should be reversed they were made so the grid lead would be away from the rectifier tube


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> The 6F8G adapters should be reversed they were made so the grid lead would be away from the rectifier tube




I know, that pic was taken when I first received the WA22 and the 6F8G tubes. Newbie mistake. I need to get my lazy ass off the couch and pm you on your amps.


----------



## nwavesailor

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> I made the jump and picked up a pair of 596s to audition in my WA5.  I'm assuming they need a base adapter for the wires to the filaments.  Do I get these from Woo?


 

 Jack Woo & Glenn's are both very well made adapters. The pix on the page 1736 show Glenn's adapterd with the green wire. Glenn will ask you what it is being used for and where the octal 'key' (keys in the case for your WA5 and 2 rectifiers) is pointing. Jack's have a nice Teflon base. Both are winners!


----------



## 2359glenn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I know, that pic was taken when I first received the WA22 and the 6F8G tubes. Newbie mistake. I need to get my lazy ass off the couch and pm you on your amps.


 
  You might as well Waite because I am getting ready to leave for Athens to visit Stavros rosgr63


----------



## magiccabbage

I was thinking of getting the WA22 for my next amp and selling the wa2. The thing is i want to keep the pre-amp function so i asked jack could he customise the WA22 for this function. He got back to me today and said that he could but the pre-amp out would have to be xlr's. So naturally my question is can i get a XLR to RCA jack for connecting to my speakers? - i presume that is no problem but is there a hitch with it? Is going from balanced to unbalanced in a lead a good move or would i have to pair the WA22 amp with a balanced speaker set-up?


----------



## lolovitch

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I was thinking of getting the WA22 for my next amp and selling the wa2. The thing is i want to keep the pre-amp function so i asked jack could he customise the WA22 for this function. He got back to me today and said that he could but the pre-amp out would have to be xlr's. So naturally my question is can i get a XLR to RCA jack for connecting to my speakers? - i presume that is no problem but is there a hitch with it? Is going from balanced to unbalanced in a lead a good move or would i have to pair the WA22 amp with a balanced speaker set-up?


 
  I have a modified WA22 which is used in this configuration, worked just fine.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





lolovitch said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  X2, but wondering why the upgrade if your plan is to use it as a single-ended preamp the WA2 would seem like more of a plug n' play option.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2, but wondering why the upgrade if your plan is to use it as a single-ended preamp the WA2 would seem like more of a plug n' play option.


 
  Because i will also use it for headphones and i have my eye on some low impedance cans like audeze and dennen or maybe fostex at some stage. the only place i can go now with the WA2 is hd800.


----------



## magiccabbage

[size=18.399999618530273px]grokit[/size]  this pic from your photo album --
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/49487/bdd4c10b7d-jpg/sort/display_order/
   
  i have been looking for that image for ages. i seen it in a thread a while back but i just could not find it. 
   
  WHERE DID YOU GET THAT ACRYLIC SHELF? i have to have it. i have tried to find similar typed shelves online but to no avail.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> [size=18.399999618530273px]grokit[/size]  this pic from your photo album --
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/49487/bdd4c10b7d-jpg/sort/display_order/
> ...


 
  if anyone knows what brand this shelf is or where i can get one please let me know. i have talked to grokit and it is not his.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> if anyone knows what brand this shelf is or where i can get one please let me know. i have talked to grokit and it is not his.


 
  Just remember tube amps running a long time get very hot. Even the WA7 uses glass instead of acrylic. It could melt


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Just remember tube amps running a long time get very hot. Even the WA7 uses glass instead of acrylic. It could melt


 
  even sitting on top like in the image? acrylic melts at 160 degrees celcius. i cant imagine the tubes getting that hot especially if the amp is sitting on the top of the shelf like in the image.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> even sitting on top like in the image? acrylic melts at 160 degrees celcius. i cant imagine the tubes getting that hot especially if the amp is sitting on the top of the shelf like in the image.


 
  The tubes get very hot but its you money dude.  Just increase your fire insurance


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The tubes get very hot but its you money dude.  Just increase your fire insurance


 
  ha ha ill be sure to do that just in case


----------



## Frank I

[size=small]   
 [/size]
[size=small]   
 Tubes _can_ be fragile, sometimes generate significant unwanted heat, and _can_ take many *...* Since these sorts of "_vacuum tubes_" _have_ functions other than electronic *...*When _hot_, the filament releases electrons into the vacuum, a process called *.....* giving it the ability to emit sufficient electrons at about 2000 _degrees_ Celsius.
   

 [/size]
[size=small]   
 [/size]


----------



## grokit

Sorry not my pic, hopefully the OP will chime in


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Sorry not my pic, hopefully the OP will chime in


 
  no bother, the search continues


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Because i will also use it for headphones and i have my eye on some low impedance cans like audeze and dennen or maybe fostex at some stage. the only place i can go now with the WA2 is hd800.


 
   





 Great! You should then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 buy my Zeus cabled 4x22 awg Balanced drive (XLR) Denon D7000 for that WA22. Please tell me Customs Duties over in Ireland aren't a killa!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great! You should then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  yea they are. i had to pay nearly an extra 400 dollars on my WA2 - sore dose! but i learnt my lesson.


----------



## magiccabbage

send on some images in a message or something


----------



## Silent One

Will do so for you this evening. Next up - Cycling workout.


----------



## redcat2

Oh all you WA5 looking for a bargain in 300 Tube check out the pricing on those babes http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-300A-Engraved-Tubes-TESTED-1-/300870596085?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460d48f5f5


----------



## fhuang




----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Oh all you WA5 looking for a bargain in 300 Tube check out the pricing on those babes http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-300A-Engraved-Tubes-TESTED-1-/300870596085?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460d48f5f5


 
  I ordered them and told them you were
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 paying for them


----------



## dminches

magiccabbage said:


> no bother, the search continues




You should search for a table top DVD stand. That's what that is probably used for.


----------



## dminches

http://www.allclearhere.com/risers.html


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I was thinking of getting the WA22 for my next amp and selling the wa2. The thing is i want to keep the pre-amp function so i asked jack could he customise the WA22 for this function. He got back to me today and said that he could but the pre-amp out would have to be xlr's. So naturally my question is can i get a XLR to RCA jack for connecting to my speakers? - i presume that is no problem but is there a hitch with it? Is going from balanced to unbalanced in a lead a good move or would i have to pair the WA22 amp with a balanced speaker set-up?


 
   
  WA22 already?!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA22 already?!


 
  i see a WA5 in your future little girl


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Oh all you WA5 looking for a bargain in 300 Tube check out the pricing on those babes http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-300A-Engraved-Tubes-TESTED-1-/300870596085?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460d48f5f5


 
   





 I was reading in the middle of dinner..._ I need to chew & swallow c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> i see a WA5 in your future little girl


 
   




   
  uh oh....im scared now! u know, i was actually thinking about it a few days ago, what if i got WA5 for T1? it really can't get much better than that could it?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> uh oh....im scared now! u know, i was actually thinking about it a few days ago, what if i got WA5 for T1? it really can't get much better than that could it?


 
  The T1 is incredible on the WA5 as is the HD800,LCD2.2 and the HE6 plus the AT3000anv. All of them sound great. The HE6 is rocking my boat tonight. The T1 will be used in my review of the WA5 as well as the new Beyer amp coming out shortly.
   
  The WA5 is going in my will. It will never leave me . Its my last major amplifier upgrade and I been stocking up on NOS tubes lately.
   
  Once you hear the Woo WA5 there no going back plus its great on the Omega speakers .  If you can swing it go for it you wont regret it.


----------



## Silent One

It's just a matter of time, DSG...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The T1 is incredible on the WA5 as is the HD800,LCD2.2 and the HE6 plus the AT3000anv. All of them sound great. The HE6 is rocking my boat tonight. The T1 will be used in my review of the WA5 as well as the new Beyer amp coming out shortly.
> 
> The WA5 is going in my will. It will never leave me . Its my last major amplifier upgrade and I been stocking up on NOS tubes lately.
> 
> Once you hear the Woo WA5 there no going back plus its great on the Omega speakers .  If you can swing it go for it you wont regret it.


 
   
  Who makes the Omega speakers, Zu or another mfg? And what's their rated efficiency? Enjoying the updates, by the way...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The T1 is incredible on the WA5 as is the HD800,LCD2.2 and the HE6 plus the AT3000anv. All of them sound great. The HE6 is rocking my boat tonight. The T1 will be used in my review of the WA5 as well as the new Beyer amp coming out shortly.
> 
> The WA5 is going in my will. It will never leave me . Its my last major amplifier upgrade and I been stocking up on NOS tubes lately.
> 
> Once you hear the Woo WA5 there no going back plus its great on the Omega speakers .  If you can swing it go for it you wont regret it.


 
   
   
  he-6 on the speaker output?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Who makes the Omega speakers, Zu or another mfg? And what's their rated efficiency? Enjoying the updates, by the way...


 
  The Omega speaker ar made by Omega.Louis Choco has been building these by hand for over 20 years. They are made in Connecticut.  Sean Casey build the Zu speakers in Utah.Omega Speaker Systems


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> he-6 on the speaker output?


 
   
  The dedicated K1000 jack on the front panel.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> The Omega speaker ar made by Omega.Louis Choco has been building these by hand for over 20 years. They are made in Connecticut.  Sean Casey build the Zu speakers in Utah.Omega Speaker Systems


 
   
  Hmmm, Connecticut... I vacationed in North Branford one June, the surroundings was just like a picture book! I ought to look up this fellow. What is the efficiency of your speakers?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The dedicated K1000 jack on the front panel.


 
  Yes . Its on the left side of the amplifier. I am using it for the HE6 and the lCD 2.2. I wont use it for the hd800 as its very powerful and the hd800 sound terrific on the single ended jack with he switch on high. Jack did a fantastic job with this design. Wei Wu been building tube amplifiers for over 40 years.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Yes . Its on the left side of the amplifier.


 





 Oh, I'm fully aware. Was pointing that out to Dubstep Girl...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Yes . Its on the left side of the amplifier. I am using it for the HE6 and the lCD 2.2. I wont use it for the hd800 as its very powerful and the hd800 sound terrific on the single ended jack with he switch on high. Jack did a fantastic job with this design. Wei Wu been building tube amplifiers for over 40 years.


 
   
  oh u can use LCD-2 on there as well?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh u can use LCD-2 on there as well?


 
  Yes and they stepped up to  the next level. The LCD2.2. can handle 15 Watts and the more power they get the more open they sound. Its all good. The HE6 is really good on this amplifier as I knew it would be.  So its really the last amp I will need to play music with.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dminches said:


> http://www.allclearhere.com/risers.html


 
  Thank you - how you came across that is a mystery but thanks anyway.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA22 already?!


 
  I dunno just pondering. If i do decide on the WA22 it will be next year. there are one or two people over here interested in buying my WA2. I asked jack about the speaker option for WA22 and he said that it would cost another 350 dollars. Now i'm thinking that brings the price up to 2345 - should i just go for the WA5-LE then? I will have to think about it a bit more but i do know one thing - I WANT SOME LOW IMPEDANCE CANS AND I HAVE TO HAVE THE AUDEZE'S! I could go for WA6-LE like you suggested before but i don't like the look of it and i know that it would bother me. 
   
  Hopefully at the London meet in October i will get to hear a WA22. I would love to hear a WA5 but i know that's a bit much to ask for. Also there might be a few other amp's that will impress. Maybe i could audition a solid state amp with a pre-amp option for WA2?


----------



## shipsupt

You can easily have that shelf built at TapPlastics. I have had similar selfs and amp covers made to order there in the past.



magiccabbage said:


> [size=18.399999618530273px]grokit[/size]
> this pic from your photo album --
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> You can easily have that shelf built at TapPlastics. I have had similar selfs and amp covers made to order there in the past.


 
  thanks ill check that out


----------



## shipsupt

EDIT: It suddenly dawned on me that you're in the UK!  I have not found a similar type store/vendor in the UK.  If you track one down please let me know.
   
  Sorry, I was a bit rushed on the train responding... here is a link: http://www.tapplastics.com/
   
  If you visit a store with the dimensions of what you want to end up with they will work with you to custom build it.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> EDIT: It suddenly dawned on me that you're in the UK!  I have not found a similar type store/vendor in the UK.  If you track one down please let me know.
> 
> Sorry, I was a bit rushed on the train responding... here is a link: http://www.tapplastics.com/
> 
> If you visit a store with the dimensions of what you want to end up with they will work with you to custom build it.


 
  sound! - by the way i live in the republic of ireland. Ye don't own us anymore!


----------



## shipsupt

You're safe!  I'm a yank just trying to find his way around this place.  I'm lucky if I can find the ferry to Ireland!
  Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> sound! - by the way i live in the republic of ireland. Ye don't own us anymore!


----------



## magiccabbage

i am thinking of buying a pair of power tubes soon for the WA2. I'm looking for the darkest one's out there if anyone has any suggestions i would appreciate it. I have tung sol 5998 but I want to hear what the T1's sound like with a really dark tube.


----------



## hodgjy

Dark tubes include a lot the 6080s.  The RCA 6080 leans to the dark side.  Also, the GE 6AS7GA tube is quite warm and lush.  The RCA 6AS7G is also quite romantic and warm.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i have RCA 6080, the RCA 6AS7G are better. i find the 6080s to be muddy and harsh. didn't listen to them too long unfortunately, just never liked them. the GE 6AS7GA is ok, i find alot of these tube to lack the refinement the better tubes offer though
   
  also remember drivers can be darker, like some of the mullards (CV2492 i believe?)
   
  im trying to find a pair of the GEC 6AS7G, but all the ones on ebay are ridiculously overpriced, like 300$ a tube.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i have RCA 6080, the RCA 6AS7G are better. i find the 6080s to be muddy and harsh. didn't listen to them too long unfortunately, just never liked them. the GE 6AS7GA is ok, i find alot of these tube to lack the refinement the better tubes offer though
> 
> also remember drivers can be darker, like some of the mullards (CV2492 i believe?)
> 
> im trying to find a pair of the GEC 6AS7G, but all the ones on ebay are ridiculously overpriced, like 300$ a tube.


 
  what are the differences between the two brands of 6AS7G? what does the GEC offer over RCA. the RCA are very cheap so i think these will be my backup. i look forward to rolling them on the WA2 with T1.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

RCA is crappy spare and stock tube. GEC is legendary audiophile power tube, highly sought after and extremely rare. The best of the best. They make the wa2 sound like a $5k amp


----------



## hodgjy

I think you're being a little harsh on the RCA.  It's a fine tube.  Very warm and seductive.  It just doesn't have the resolution as the TS 5998 or GEC.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> RCA is crappy spare and stock tube. GEC is legendary audiophile power tube, highly sought after and extremely rare. The best of the best.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah its not a bad tube, but once u get used to the 5998 its hard to go back to rcq


----------



## hodgjy

That I can agree to.  The 5998 is definitely one of my favorites. 
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah its not a bad tube, but once u get used to the 5998 its hard to go back to rcq


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> RCA is crappy spare and stock tube. GEC is legendary audiophile power tube, highly sought after and extremely rare. The best of the best. They make the wa2 sound like a $5k amp


 
  A 5k amp really? Wow. How long have you being searching for those?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think you're being a little harsh on the RCA.  It's a fine tube.  Very warm and seductive.  It just doesn't have the resolution as the TS 5998 or GEC.


 
   






 We absolutely dig the new avatar you've got!


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> A 5k amp really? Wow. How long have you being searching for those?


 
   
  Don't think it's a matter of searching.  One must cough up the funds to acquire...


----------



## Ultrainferno

I can't agree on the 2399/5998 being "better" than the RCA 6AS7G. It's a matter of preference. I really don't like the sound of the 5998 and they're all in storage. They have bene replaced by RCA 6AS7G and Chathams in all my OTLs. But then again I don't like the _Mighty 596_ either which imo has the same sound sig as the 5998. To me it has too much gain and not enough smooth tube character. But who am I


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> We absolutely dig the new avatar you've got!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I can't agree on the 2399/5998 being "better" than the RCA 6AS7G. It's a matter of preference. I really don't like the sound of the 5998 and they're all in storage. They have bene replaced by RCA 6AS7G and Chathams in all my OTLs. But then again I don't like the _Mighty 596_ either which imo has the same sound sig as the 5998. To me it has too much gain and not enough smooth tube character. But who am I


 
   
  I love it when fellow members find their path... er... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _groove _in this hobby with what works for them.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I can't agree on the 2399/5998 being "better" than the RCA 6AS7G. It's a matter of preference. I really don't like the sound of the 5998 and they're all in storage. They have bene replaced by RCA 6AS7G and Chathams in all my OTLs. But then again I don't like the _Mighty 596_ either which imo has the same sound sig as the 5998. To me it has too much gain and not enough smooth tube character. But who am I


 
  Can you post pics of some of your gear - OTL especially. maybe PM's if you don't wanna jam the thread??


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Thank you - how you came across that is a mystery but thanks anyway.


 
   
  Google is my friend.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I find the RCA 6AS7G to be a fine tube, the Chatham is also a goodie. The 5998 / 7236 are also good if the amp are properly set up for them. As a drop in replacement for the 6AS7G I feel they are not being used to their best (aka Woos) but are still decent if a little over hyped nowdays. The GEC A1834 / 6AS7G is a better tube in all respects however (in all variants) and a drop in replacement for the RCA 6AS7Gs (so sing in a Woo). On the 6080s, TS is nice, as are Bendix and graphite plate versions etc. The GEC 6080 is good, and the Mullard not bad either but many of the generic GE / Philips ECG leave me a bit cold especially when you consider how cheap and good an RCA 6AS7G is. Mind you some of the old Russian 13s can be good also


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Can you post pics of some of your gear - OTL especially. maybe PM's if you don't wanna jam the thread??


 
   
  sure, here's a few


----------



## dminches

Which woo is that?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> sure, here's a few


 
  Great pics. what camera did you use(lens)?


----------



## Silent One

This angle lends a nice boutique feel to the room.


----------



## dminches

That's the angle at which they would have shown the Riddler's headamps on Batman.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Which woo is that?


 
   
  That is the WA2 full option and more from my good friend Clayton SF
   
  Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Great pics. what camera did you use(lens)?


 
   
  A Canon D600 18-55 I think, nothing special 
   
  SO: wait till I move the Glenn amp to the office!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That is the WA2 full option and more from my good friend Clayton SF
> 
> 
> A Canon D600 18-55 I think, nothing special
> ...


 
  congrats on your 3000th post!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Yes and they stepped up to  the next level. The LCD2.2. can handle 15 Watts and the more power they get the more open they sound. Its all good. The HE6 is really good on this amplifier as I knew it would be.  So its really the last amp I will need to play music with.


 
  Frank i forgot to ask you did you get parts upgrades for the WA5 as well as tubes upgrades? Are the parts upgrades for longevity or otherwise?


----------



## Frank I

I did not buy the upgraded parts. I maxed out my budget and then some.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I did not but the upgraded parts. I maxed out my budget and then some.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 
  Did you order yours yet? He6 sounds great as does all the other cans.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  it'll be a while.
   
  getting TH-900 in the coming month or 2 though.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nope
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  with the WA6-SE. you have tried this already at the meet right? Impressions?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes.
   
  sounded absolutely amazing, the meet was pretty over for me after that. 
   
  the guy that had them was using them on a balancing act. they sounded pretty good there. they sounded similar to the WA6-SE though, but WA6-SE had a little more bass, the ECBA was more linear and refined, both where great. the TH-900 didn't scale up as much as some of the other headphones though.
   
  anyways the guy that had them listened to them too and agreed they sounded great on WA6-SE, even better than when he had WA22. might have been the mighty 596 tube, but anyways yeah, they sounded really good, just like D7000, very similar sound, but just faster, less congested, and the bass was much more impressive. just as powerful, same fostex/denon house sound, but the bass just had more balls on the TH-900, went deeper, more slam, tighter, etc.  and seemed a little less colored in the mids, a little more balanced there. anyways really liked them, and the bass wasn't as muddy, alot of the resonance issues where gone. details and textures, soundstage ,etc, couldn't notice too much since it was at a meet and i didn't listen too long, but it seemed slightly better, however, its not night and day. in a way the d7k are 90% of the fostex, but ymmv


----------



## Frank I

Dub if you sell the WA2 and WA6 and tubes you have you can get a WA5.


----------



## Clayton SF

Frank, how does the WA5 sound with speakers?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Frank, how does the WA5 sound with speakers?


 
  Clayton is sounds great with the Omega 3T I have in here near field. They are sending me a floor stander for my upstairs media room and I will also be reviewing the new Zu floor stander in the fall. I am thrilled with this amplifier. it does exactly what I was looking for a great speaker 300B amp and plays every headphone. The planar he6 and lcd2 sound great through the speaker xor and the rest of my cans also stepped up.


----------



## dminches

Frank, did Wu say it was ok to power the HE-6 off the speaker taps?  I know it isn't recommended with the Leben.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Frank, did Wu say it was ok to power the HE-6 off the speaker taps?  I know it isn't recommended with the Leben.


 
  I am powering the HE6 through the AKG 1K XLR  jack not on the speaker taps. The XLR was designed for the akg1K an is OK for use with the HE6 and LCD2


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Dub if you sell the WA2 and WA6 and tubes you have you can get a WA5.


 
   
  ya rite. i'd get 1800 tops for both amps, people are cheap too and then theres shipping costs. i'd end up getting only a little bit for tubes, i'd have to sell my tubes and RE-BUY pairs for WA5, and of course i'd be going with parts and the full speaker version of WA5. only good thing is i already have a pair of mighty 596's


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Clearly, Frank negotiated a commission deal with Jack at that lunch a few weeks ago...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Clearly, Frank negotiated a commission deal with Jack at that lunch a few weeks ago...


 
   
  lol!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol!


 
  LOL I wish!!!!!!!
   
  Your getting the itch!!!!!!! I can feel it


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ya rite. i'd get 1800 tops for both amps, people are cheap too and then theres shipping costs. i'd end up getting only a little bit for tubes, i'd have to sell my tubes and RE-BUY pairs for WA5, and of course i'd be going with parts and the full speaker version of WA5. only good thing is i already have a pair of mighty 596's


 
   
  I think you'd successfully pull it off but add cash for upgrades. Only thing is, for a short time you'd have to do without owning five premium  cans and three amps. That wouldn't be a bad sacrifice.
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



Shhhhhhhhhh... you shouldn't indict the very customers for your gear right in front of them.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ya rite. i'd get 1800 tops for both amps, people are cheap too and then theres shipping costs. i'd end up getting only a little bit for tubes, i'd have to sell my tubes and RE-BUY pairs for WA5, and of course i'd be going with parts and the full speaker version of WA5. only good thing is i already have a pair of mighty 596's


 
  if you sold the amps you would be very close - i think within 1000 dollars of having the WA5. IMO its worth it. Could you buy it without the parts upgrades like frank and then maybe later on get that part sorted if it needed it? 
   
  the WA5-LE is within reach for me but not the WA5. I have to figure out if i really need a speaker amp as well because that is the one thing that is holding me back. I don't wanna buy it and then 6 or 7 years down the line want a speaker amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would need speaker/k1000 since i do want an HE-6 sometime in the future. also i don't wanna lose the magic the WA2 has with the T1,  don't know how the WA5 sounds with T1.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i would need speaker/k1000 since i do want an HE-6 sometime in the future. also i don't wanna lose the magic the WA2 has with the T1,  don't know how the WA5 sounds with T1.


 
  I understand if the WA2 could power the planar cans my next purchase would be the HE6 for sure. I wonder if any of the old receivers could power the HE6? My friends dad has a sansui receiver lying around that he doesn't even use.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i would need speaker/k1000 since i do want an HE-6 sometime in the future. also i don't wanna lose the magic the WA2 has with the T1,  don't know how the WA5 sounds with T1.


 
  T1 and WA5 are magic


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I understand if the WA2 could power the planar cans my next purchase would be the HE6 for sure. I wonder if any of the old receivers could power the HE6? My friends dad has a sansui receiver lying around that he doesn't even use.


 
   
  The trend (when successfully paired) has been quality speaker amps. I'm a Sansui owner (G-22000), which model does Pops have? The HE-6 would likely choke the poor lil' WA2. I wouldn't even want to be a witness.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The trend (when successfully paired) has been quality speaker amps. I'm a Sansui owner (G-22000), which model does Pops have? The HE-6 would likely choke the poor lil' WA2. I wouldn't even want to be a witness.


 
  i cant remember the model number. I sent him a message to find out but still waiting on a reply. he has an old sansui speaker amp as well that he uses with the hd600. its weird i have been over to his house on an off since i was 16. i always remember seeing the amp and receiver in the living room but i had no idea what it was. its only when i came across the vintage receiver thread that bells started ringing!
   
  oh yea leave my WA2 alone!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> T1 and WA5 are magic


 
   
  whats the sound like?
   
  i like WA2 with T1 cause its very smooth and relaxed yet bright and detailed. i don't want the WA5 to be aggressive and dynamic like WA6-SE. i do not like T1 on WA6-SE unless im using warm tubes, and then its very detailed and open, but lacks a bit of body.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> whats the sound like?
> 
> i like WA2 with T1 cause its very smooth and relaxed yet bright and detailed. i don't want the WA5 to be aggressive and dynamic like WA6-SE. i do not like T1 on WA6-SE unless im using warm tubes, and then its very detailed and open, but lacks a bit of body.


 
  300B amps are not aggressive at all. Direct heated triodes are very musical.  The tube rolling is not being done right now for me so I am using the EML 300B and the tube sounds very detailed and musical and there is a very balanced  and the amp is effortless. It is no way a lush amp like a WA22. It well just sounds like I am listening to natural music. After listening to this amp I have no reason to listen to any other except for a review.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> only good thing is i already have a pair of mighty 596's


 
   
  I got mine (finally).  $100 ea. on eBay.  A guy has a bunch of NOS.  Awaiting the bases.  Can't wait to check them out.
   
  Oh-- And I got my WA5LE for $1825 used.  Bargains pop up occasionally.


----------



## Silent One

Oh reeltime, I know you must be feelin' r-e-a-l good on that Woo acquisition! That's a nice price. Also, where on the bay did you score your rectifier? I wanna check the stock with my 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





BIG eye.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> 300B amps are not aggressive at all. Direct heated triodes are very musical.  The tube rolling is not being done right now for me so I am using the EML 300B and the tube sounds very detailed and musical and there is a very balanced  and the amp is effortless. It is no way a lush amp like a WA22. It well just sounds like I am listening to natural music. After listening to this amp I have no reason to listen to any other except for a review.


 
   
  sounds good. but not lush? WA2 is kinda lush i think. its warm smooth and organic yet clear sounding.
   


reeltime said:


> I got mine (finally).  $100 ea. on eBay.  A guy has a bunch of NOS.  Awaiting the bases.  Can't wait to check them out.
> 
> Oh-- And I got my WA5LE for $1825 used.  Bargains pop up occasionally.


 

  oooh


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oh reeltime, I know you must be feelin' r-e-a-l good on that Woo acquisition! That's a nice price. Also, where on the bay did you score your rectifier? I wanna check the stock with my
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  See if this links:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/300923709910?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  The seller is nwavesailor
   
  Contact him if there's nothing currently listed.  He sounded like he had a number of them.  He told me he'd have no problem matching a pair of them-- and mine were made a month apart in 1956.  Which is pretty darn cool.
   
  I've had the WA5 for 8 months now.  After settling on a driver-- I've really not had the desire to mess around much with the system.  It just sounds gorgeous.  I have it set up with a TT source and a digital source.  I'm quite happy with both, and the focus has really been on the music for the last 3 or 4 months.  I have the HD800-- and I haven't heard anything that sounds better, which is a good thing for my wallet.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> See if this links:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300923709910?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> 
> ...


 
  can you pst some pics of the WA5? i would love to see the setup


----------



## Silent One

Hopefully, reeltime can keep it_ realtime_ and remember to denote he's using the WA5-LE. Or WA5, whichever model it is. Just trying to be helpful.


----------



## Silent One

Re: United Electronics USAF-56 Rectifier
   
  The ebay seller describes the tube as being "made" by United Electronics. It is my understanding - and I'll stand corrected if wrong - that UE didn't make anything. They were simply a "Rebrander" during War-time efforts. Demand was really strong.
   
  In fact, many of the big tube manufactures sold to each other during the 1950's. ie Sylvania would sell RCA some tubes and they'd end up labeled "RCA." 
   
  My beloved '596' could very well be a Tung-Sol, Sylvania, RCA or GE. I'm still trying to locate this child's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


natural parent.


----------



## Frank I

I been using the RCA 5U4G and like them in the WA5.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hopefully, reeltime can keep it_ realtime_ and remember to denote he's using the WA5-LE. Or WA5, whichever model it is. Just trying to be helpful.


 
   
  Sorry it's the LE.  Same amp, less the speaker output.  I usually type the whole thing, once in a while I slip.  I'm old, give me a break.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Sorry it's the LE.  Same amp, less the speaker output.  I usually type the whole thing, once in a while I slip.  I'm old, give me a break.


 
  Not to worry. I wasn't even thinking if it were an LE or not. Just that you got a Woo -- Whoohoo! Congratulations! (Everyone's young at heart here.) Sometimes I type WA22 When I mean WA2.


----------



## reeltime




----------



## reeltime

596 awaits deployment.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> 596 awaits deployment.


 
  you should post many more. can the LE power the HE6 or do you need the speaker out for that?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> 596 awaits deployment.


 
  This is a great photo of the 596. I like the lighting very much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bad day for me today
   
  4 gec 6as7g's just sold for about 350$, i lost in the last 15 seconds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  and my t1 has to get repaired too.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I was also out bid but in the last 8 seconds  I hope they have gone to a good headphone home.


----------



## dminches

DG, can you post the link to the auction?  I am curious what got sold for that amount.  Thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

Didn't you already get them repaired once?  What's wrong with them?  Sorry to hear that.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and my t1 has to get repaired too.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Sorry it's the LE.  Same amp, less the speaker output.  I usually type the whole thing, once in a while I slip.  I'm old, give me a break.


 
   
  reeltime, in no way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was I busting anyone's chops... completely the opposite. As many of us here may know the difference already, I'm _woo-ing _the readership
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and helping them get thy understanding.
   
  I'm a long-time La Ve Lee patron by the way, was sad to see it shut down in Studio City.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> 596 awaits deployment.


 
   





 _Sooo v-e-r-y s-e-x-y-!-!-!_


----------



## magiccabbage

Has anyone used Grado PS1000 with the WA2? I was under the impression that these would sound terrible on the woo amp because of the low impedance but i just seen on Woo Audio's website that they recommend pairing the Grados with the WA2. 
   
  was wondering what it sounds like and also - are there any other (low impedance cans 32 Ohm) that can be paired with the WA2? 
  32 Ohm headphones and the WA2 is news to me!


----------



## hodgjy

It's my understanding that the WA2 can drive headphones greater than 25 ohms.  While not the best match on paper, driving an impedance mismatch isn't going to destroy headphones or make the amp explode.  It's just going to deliver a different sonic character.  Usually, using low impedance headphones on an amp with a high output impedance has a warming effect.  In the case of the Grados, that is desirable to some users.
   
  Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Has anyone used Grado PS1000 with the WA2? I was under the impression that these would sound terrible on the woo amp because of the low impedance but i just seen on Woo Audio's website that they recommend pairing the Grados with the WA2.
> 
> was wondering what it sounds like and also - are there any other (low impedance cans 32 Ohm) that can be paired with the WA2?
> 32 Ohm headphones and the WA2 is news to me!


----------



## GrindingThud

In a different league I know, but I'm running HD558s on a WA3 and its able to drive the 50ohm load well with the upgraded tubes. The WA2 uses the same output tube in parallel, so it should have half the output impedance. With the stock 6080 or the russian tubes the low end can get a little flabby, but with the 7236 or 5998, things tighten way up. Looking at the graphs, the PS1000 impedance looks very uniform compared to the characteristic Sennheiser hump....so I'm thinking there may be some risk with mid-base control of these with the WA2. I'd say an audition is certainly in order. 
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=2861&graphID%5B1%5D=2151&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=7&buttonSelection=Update+Graph



magiccabbage said:


> Has anyone used Grado PS1000 with the WA2? I was under the impression that these would sound terrible on the woo amp because of the low impedance but i just seen on Woo Audio's website that they recommend pairing the Grados with the WA2.
> 
> was wondering what it sounds like and also - are there any other (low impedance cans 32 Ohm) that can be paired with the WA2?
> 32 Ohm headphones and the WA2 is news to me!


I'd


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> you should post many more. can the LE power the HE6 or do you need the speaker out for that?


 
   
  Not sure.  My guess is this-- The WA5LE can probably drive it just fine.  But for optimal performance, the WA5 is probably the way to go. 
   
  I use this example a lot:  I read many complaints about the HD800 being a little lacking in the bass and harsh through the treble.  I could find about 20 threads complaining of this with a basic Google search.  But what I've discovered is that most (if not all) of the time a listener has that comment-- it's because the amp driving the headphone was underpowered.  Not to say it couldn't make sound out of the HD800 (heck, I drove the HD800 for months with a WA6), but what that headphone likes is a LOT of power.  Put the power down, and it's a different headphone entirely.  The amps that seem to give the HD800 symmetry are the WA5 (and LE), the WA22, the Dark Star, and the Liquid Fire (there may be a few others, but these are the standouts-- and yeah those amps are all expensive).  Everything else I've put (or others have put) with the HD800 has been little better than good (or worse--"nice").  
   
  I assume the HE6 is like this.  I heard them at the audio show a few weeks ago driven by a good amp.  The sounded "nice".  I'm betting with the right amp, those headphones reveal why they are so highly regarded.  The WA5LE probably sounds "nice" with the HE6, too.  But with the WA5-- they probably open up and reveal something quite special.  
   
  That's my guess anyway.  Perhaps one of the super-tech-numbers guys can elaborate?


----------



## Redcarmoose

reeltime said:


> Not sure.  My guess is this-- The WA5LE can probably drive it just fine.  But for optimal performance, the WA5 is probably the way to go.
> 
> I use this example a lot:  I read many complaints about the HD800 being a little lacking in the bass and harsh through the treble.  I could find about 20 threads complaining of this with a basic Google search.  But what I've discovered is that most (if not all) of the time a listener has that comment-- it's because the amp driving the headphone was underpowered.  Not to say it couldn't make sound out of the HD800 (heck, I drove the HD800 for months with a WA6), but what that headphone likes is a LOT of power.  Put the power down, and it's a different headphone entirely.  The amps that seem to give the HD800 symmetry are the WA5 (and LE), the WA22, the Dark Star, and the Liquid Fire (there may be a few others, but these are the standouts-- and yeah those amps are all expensive).  Everything else I've put (or others have put) with the HD800 has been little better than good (or worse--"nice").
> 
> ...




I'm in no way a tech-numbers guy, but besides giving the headphones tighter bass and more authority the power creates dampening factor which increases response time and speed. Thus lower power amps can seem "slow" with certain types of headphones. IMO.

I understand dampening as the circuit energy which is then pulling the driver in the opposite direction and not necessarily making sound but stoping it.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> bad day for me today
> 
> 4 gec 6as7g's just sold for about 350$, i lost in the last 15 seconds
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> I was also out bid but in the last 8 seconds  I hope they have gone to a good headphone home.


 
   
  I had them in my watch list too but didn't bid. If you want GECs you better bid high enough. Have you tried "Sniping"?


----------



## kchew

I just received a pair of TS 6F8G round plates, and not only do they sound brilliant, they look brilliant as well, especially at night.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh yeah so my t1s headband broke again. details are in the t1 thread

but good news on the gec tubes, looks like the buyer didnt come through, so i ended up winning them!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh yeah so my t1s headband broke again. details are in the t1 thread
> 
> but good news on the gec tubes, looks like the buyer didnt come through, so i ended up winning them!!!


 
  lucky you. you will have to give impressions


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> lucky you. you will have to give impressions





sure will! excited when i will get t1 back and have 2 pairs of gec 6as7g (depending on impressions, might end up keeping or selling a pair). ill also have hd 800s to check em out with in the meantime.

if the gec tubes are as good as people say, ill buy some better drivers as well to finish maxing out my tubes (CCa or pq amperex or something)


----------



## hodgjy

Boo on the headband.  At least it's just the headband and not a driver.  Headbands would be easy to fix.
   
  And you did a nice consolation prize in the GECs!
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh yeah so my t1s headband broke again. details are in the t1 thread
> 
> but good news on the gec tubes, looks like the buyer didnt come through, so i ended up winning them!!!


----------



## hodgjy

If anyone out there is a Woo collector, there is a WA1 for sale in the classifieds.  No, it's not mine.  But, I am thinking about purchasing it.


----------



## magiccabbage

for anyone intersted - the WA2/Grado pairing that is suggsted on the Woo audio site is a typo. Jack has confirmed this and apologises. 
   
http://www.wooaudio.com/headphones/grado/ps1000.html


----------



## magiccabbage

Sorry guys it wasn't jack that confirmed this it was "[size=small]Simon Ho"[/size]
   
  [size=small]thank you Simon. [/size]


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> but good news on the gec tubes, looks like the buyer didnt come through, so i ended up winning them!!!


 
   
  I have won them as well  !!


----------



## kchew

GEC 6AS7 are awesome tubes, I'm never letting mine go. Congrats Dubstep Girl!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> but good news on the gec tubes, looks like the buyer didnt come through, so i ended up winning them!!!


 
  How does that happen? How does one win and not pay? Any penalties for the original winning bidder?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> I have won them as well  !!


 
   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How does that happen? How does one win and not pay? Any penalties for the original winning bidder?


 
   
  I think the seller has more, this way the seller does not have to list more to save money but I think it is against fleabay rule.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nic rhodes said:


> I have won them as well  !!




u won them as well? what do u mean


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Received a second chance offer, seller said he had more  Seems he has at least three sets! Think the original seller also honoured his committment as was all done above board through ebay.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> Received a second chance offer, seller said he had more  Seems he has at least three sets! Think the original seller also honoured his committment as was all done above board through ebay.


 
  Can you send a link?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> u won them as well? what do u mean


 
  When do they arrive??


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Can you send a link?


 

 gibson345 was the seller


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> gibson345 was the seller


 
  Cool will check it out.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> When do they arrive??


 
   
  doesn't say, hasn't shipped. hopefully soon though, ships from uk


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> Received a second chance offer, seller said he had more  Seems he has at least three sets! Think the original seller also honoured his committment as was all done above board through ebay.


 
   
  ooooh!


----------



## Silent One

Can't wait to see pix..._ from all of you GECkies_. Seated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 inside your Woos, mind you.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> doesn't say, hasn't shipped. hopefully soon though, ships from uk


 
  it'l be 10 days so if your lucky.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

getting 5 GEC 6AS7G tubes instead of 4. turns out that out of the 4, that 2 are actually used, so hes throwing in another new one.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> getting 5 GEC 6AS7G tubes instead of 4. turns out that out of the 4, that 2 are actually used, so hes throwing in another new one.


 

 Weren't you bidding on 4 NOS? Then they turn out not to be NOS? I wouldn't like that.


----------



## Silent One

For some odd reason
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I get the feelin' this seller is ALL over the street!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> getting 5 GEC 6AS7G tubes instead of 4. turns out that out of the 4, that 2 are actually used, so hes throwing in another new one.


 
  do you have a tester and what feedback did this guy have. I have tubes going back to a seller that the base cracked when I put the tube in the amplifier. I have a tester now so I can check tubes I buy on ebay


----------



## dminches

Frank, what tester did you get?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Frank, what tester did you get?


 
  I got the Knight 6B tester I spoke with you about on the phone that night. It easy to use and does every tube I use and then s some


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I got the Knight 6B tester I spoke with you about on the phone that night. It easy to use and does every tube I use and then s some


 
  Frank i wish you lived down the street from me!


----------



## Frank I

across the pond


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> across the pond


 
  a rather large pond!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I got the Knight 6B tester I spoke with you about on the phone that night. It easy to use and does every tube I use and then s some


 
   
  Duh!
   
  I totally forgot.  I was mixed up since Lieven has been asking about a tester too.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Duh!
> 
> I totally forgot.  I was mixed up since Lieven has been asking about a tester too.


 
  LOL.   stuff happens.,. I do it all the time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

guy has like 1700 feedback or something.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Duh!
> 
> I totally forgot.  I was mixed up since Lieven has been asking about a tester too.


 
   
  Working on that!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Weren't you bidding on 4 NOS? Then they turn out not to be NOS? I wouldn't like that.


 

 same here, actually suits me better.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





frank i said:


> do you have a tester and what feedback did this guy have. I have tubes going back to a seller that the base cracked when I put the tube in the amplifier. I have a tester now so I can check tubes I buy on ebay


 

  I have a decent tester here I can check my part of 'our' tubes, I think I have used this seller before and all was good, feed back is also good.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> I have a decent tester here I can check my part of 'our' tubes, I think I have used this seller before and all was good, feed back is also good.


 
  I has a guy with 100 percent feedback lie to me this week about tubes he kept saying were shipped. I never got the tubes and kept asking for tracking number. He did not have a tracking number and once I told him I was opening an ebay case he refunded the money so I couldn't leave negative feedback. He never shipped the tubes because if he did I would had them by now.  So sometimes 100 percent feedback's go bad, as they did in my case. Great you can test tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I has a guy with 100 percent feedback lie to me this week about tubes he kept saying were shipped. I never got the tubes and kept asking for tracking number. He did not have a tracking number and once I told him I was opening an ebay case he refunded the money so I couldn't leave negative feedback. He never shipped the tubes because if he did I would had them by now.  So sometimes 100 percent feedback's go bad, as they did in my case. Great you can test tubes.


 
  So all in all as the mother would say "don't trust anyone"


----------



## Nic Rhodes

His communication has been excellent so am happy to give him the benefit of others doubt for now, if they don't turn up I will let ebay / pp deal with it but I have had very few packages go missing from ebay, generally find them to be be good. I have no reasons atm to doubt he is anything but a good / honest seller.


----------



## sjay

i took delivery of my wa6 on monday and finally had a bit of a listen at work today with the grado rs1i's i bought to pair with it, although i have not had a good listen yet i am happy with what i have experienced so far playing material like Roberta Flack, Eric Clapton, Kings of Convenience etc....
   
  because i got the amp second hand it came with some extra tubes including the princess rectifier and some others which sound very nice indeed.
   
  all in all i am glad i moved my Lyr on and replaced it with this new setup although I do miss my DT880's that were an awesome match with the Lry.
   
  i guess I now know what you are all carrying on about when it comes to woo audio because the sound really does make you go w000


----------



## Silent One

Congrats sjay!


----------



## GrindingThud

Ummmmm, not sure what to say yet.....but it's going to be something good.  :

(TungSol 6SN7GT/WE421A)
I tried to get adapters from Woo but the demand was too low for them to do a 1 off adapter with this pinout. If enough demand pops up and they do a run of these, I'd be in for a pair.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

we421a!!!


----------



## GrindingThud

I still have GEC 6AS7G envy...  



dubstep girl said:


> we421a!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I still have GEC 6AS7G envy...


 
  Same here


----------



## atomicbob

Make that 3. me too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## Dubstep Girl

another mighty 596 from nwavesailor just arrived!! now i have like 3 spares now + my main one im using right now.
   
  also auction just came up for a pair from canada!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Rare-High-Voltage-Rectifier-Tubes-United-Electronics-USAF-596-5U4G-/370847665370?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item56583e4cda
   
  also a quad of ts 6f8g for only 250$, might be scam though. thinking of picking up a pair though of the other legit ones (edit: grabbed a pair as one of my last tube purchases for a while)


----------



## Silent One

Keep it rollin'...


----------



## longbowbbs

It will be interesting to see what the winning bid is....


----------



## anasztasia

Greetings!

Guys and gals of woo audio amp owners i plead you all to visit my thread: 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/670954/accidental-head-fier#post_9586034

I am very very new to this strange headfi world and in need of you guys' insights and enlightments! 
Wanted to post here at first but thought it was too long and distracting..


----------



## Silent One

Welcome anasztasia!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> also a quad of ts 6f8g for only 250$, might be scam though. thinking of picking up a pair though of the other legit ones (edit: grabbed a pair as one of my last tube purchases for a while)


 
   
  The 6F8Gs are not a scam.  I have purchased 2 quads from this seller over the past 3 months.  They have all tested very well and are in really good condition.


----------



## anasztasia

Thank you Silent One! Any recommendations of power cable, ICs, and tubes that will go well for my would be setup? Any input is appreciated


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The 6F8Gs are not a scam.  I have purchased 2 quads from this seller over the past 3 months.  They have all tested very well and are in really good condition.


 
  I bought them and looking forward to getting them


----------



## magiccabbage

I was having a look at the WA5 and WA5-LE on the Woo site. one has a speaker out and the other does not. the WA5-LE (not speaker amp) has out puts for speakers also but they look different from the WA5 ones, does this mean that they are pre amp outs or that you have the option of changing the amp to a speaker amp at a later date? 
   
  WA5

  WA5 - LE


----------



## Frank I

I dont think you would want to send it in to remod it it would cost you way more and not even sure Jack would do it. Thus iust my last amp for sure. I keep buying exotic tubes to fog with them


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dminches said:


> The 6F8Gs are not a scam.  I have purchased 2 quads from this seller over the past 3 months.  They have all tested very well and are in really good condition.


 
   
  the quad for 250 had only 1 feedback, i bought a pair from other guy instead.


----------



## dminches

nice! enjoy.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the quad for 250 had only 1 feedback, i bought a pair from other guy instead.


 
  Dave bought two quads from the guy. I am OK with it.


----------



## Redcarmoose

magiccabbage said:


> I was having a look at the WA5 and WA5-LE on the Woo site. one has a speaker out and the other does not. the WA5-LE (not speaker amp) has out puts for speakers also but they look different from the WA5 ones, does this mean that they are pre amp outs or that you have the option of changing the amp to a speaker amp at a later date?
> 
> WA5
> 
> ...





Just input RCA outs on the back of the Woo 5LE, what you are seeing are small metal caps covering the holes in the same W5 case. I had a preamp out option put in so I only have two metal caps not four. Just a simple RCA two channel preamp out was added on the Woo 5LE, resulting extra cost about 350.00 during the build process.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> Just input RCA outs on the back of the Woo 5LE, what you are seeing are small metal caps covering the holes in the same W5 case. I had a preamp out option put in so I only have two metal caps not four. Just a simple RCA two channel preamp out was added on the Woo 5LE, resulting extra cost about 350.00 during the build process.


 
  So getting it done when you order it is the way to go as apposed to afterwards.
  it being more cost effective. thanks for the info.
  I don't know which i would go for the WA5-LE pre amp option or WA5.
   
  it seems that the WA5 is limited in the way that it can't power all speaker combo's (floor standers) to good levels. 
  So maybe it would make more sense to go the way you have gone - WA5-LE-pre amp, that way i could 
  pair it with another speaker power amp which would probably make more sense than the WA5. 
   
  If anyone has any suggestions or has chosen one over the other for the same reasons i would love to hear about it. 
   
  Thanks guys.


----------



## Redcarmoose

magiccabbage said:


> So getting it done when you order it is the way to go as apposed to afterwards.
> it being more cost effective. thanks for the info.
> I don't know which i would go for the WA5-LE pre amp option or WA5.
> 
> ...




What they do in match them with Fostex crossover-less single full range drivers. 10 watts in enough for high efficiently speakers. You may want to look into the recent popularity of these type of speakers first.

It may depend on the sound your looking for or the music you listen too. These single drivers usually have horn enclosures that boost the rear bass frequencies from the back of the driver.


----------



## banger

Go with the preamp option on the LE. Gives you the most versatility.
   
  I really love my LE, you can do so much with it, and have so many
  options as far as what type of sound you want out of it. A change in
  highs, lows, or sound stage is just a tube swap away.
   
  I really can't see me buying another tube amp to replace this setup.
  Only a SS amp, using the WA5 as a preamp, if I want to listen to speakers.


----------



## magiccabbage

What solid state amps do you guys use with the WA5?


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi guys i have read one or 2 reviews were the reviewer stated that the WA5-LE is not good with ortho's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  I was wondering what you guys think? If there are any links or threads you know of WA5 - ortho comparisons i would appreciate it. 
   
  Does the HE-6 WA5 pairing work on the LE? 
   
  Does the WA5-LE power the audeze LCD3 to really good levels?


----------



## Wapiti

^
   
  Yes to both questions.
   
  I suggest powering the HE-6 from the low impedance out rather than the XLR K1000 connector however.  The XLR K1000 connector is for a higher impedance load. 
   
  My suspicion is the writer connected the HE-6 to the XLR K1000 out and was understandably disappointed.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I was having a look at the WA5 and WA5-LE on the Woo site. one has a speaker out and the other does not. the WA5-LE (not speaker amp) has out puts for speakers also but they look different from the WA5 ones, does this mean that they are pre amp outs or that you have the option of changing the amp to a speaker amp at a later date?
> 
> WA5
> 
> WA5 - LE


 
   
  As said before, the chassis between the WA5 and WA5-LE are the same so what you are seeing in the WA5 speaker binding posts position are just caps for the holes in the WA5-LE.
   
  You can not go from a WA5-LE to a WA5 sending it to Jack for a rework. He will not do it ( I asked before) because they have different transformers. I went with the WA5-LE becuase I was not planning to use it with speakers and the HE-6 were not even out back then. Looking back that was a mistake and should have gone for the WA5 to have more flexibility. It is my understanding that the K1000 output has the same power as the speaker output but at 120 ohms. This output will drive great the HE-6 and LCD-2/3.
   
  if I would be buying again I would go with the WA5.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> As said before, the chassis between the WA5 and WA5-LE are the same so what you are seeing in the WA5 speaker binding posts position are just caps for the holes in the WA5-LE.
> 
> You can not go from a WA5-LE to a WA5 sending it to Jack for a rework. He will not do it ( I asked before) because they have different transformers. I went with the WA5-LE becuase I was not planning to use it with speakers and the HE-6 were not even out back then. Looking back that was a mistake and should have gone for the WA5 to have more flexibility. It is my understanding that the K1000 output has the same power as the speaker output but at 120 ohms. This output will drive great the HE-6 and LCD-2/3.
> 
> if I would be buying again I would go with the WA5.


 
  How does 120 ohms make sense if the HE-6 and LCD are 50 ohms?
  Can the WA5-le not power the HE-6 as efficiently on the low impedance switch?
   
  I am thinking of getting the WA5-LE- pre amp option, do you not think that this is more versatile overall?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

arent the wa5's normal headphone outputs like really weak? like a little over half a watt? how does that work out? seems like ud need speaker for he-6 and audeze


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> His communication has been excellent so am happy to give him the benefit of others doubt for now, if they don't turn up I will let ebay / pp deal with it but I have had very few packages go missing from ebay, generally find them to be be good. I have no reasons atm to doubt he is anything but a good / honest seller.


 

 A box of GEC lovlies turned up today but better than expected. 1 pair of straight base NOS, 1 curved base NOS, and a pair of used curved base. This works well with by other tubes for pairs  All well packed.


----------



## Redcarmoose

magiccabbage said:


> How does 120 ohms make sense if the HE-6 and LCD are 50 ohms?
> Can the WA5-le not power the HE-6 as efficiently on the low impedance switch?
> 
> 
> I am thinking of getting the WA5-LE- pre amp option, do you not think that this is more versatile overall?




I think the Woo 5 is more powerful than the 5LE. A preamp out may be a cool option on the straight Woo 5. They could use an input set of RCAs on the back with out doing too much changing to the chassis. These are just simple guesses on my part. Email Jack at Woo when you get serious.

The straight Woo 5 is going to more flexable with more headphones. This is just from what I have read around here. Still the 5 LE is way more power than I would ever need with the headphones I have used. I have never found much sound difference from using either high or low impedance ports. Still though I also only tried about 12 different headphones with my amp.

That said I never really use my preamp out. I sold my cinema sub-woofer but wonder how it would have worked sending the pre-amp out to the sub and combining with Akg k701s. If I do use the 5LE with an amp I use a Robertson 40 power amp and it sounds nice. Somehow though I still like other preamps better though. I really enjoy the 5 just with headphones. It has been more than I could ever have dreamed of in a headphone amp.

I have a small switch which takes the low impedance out put for headphones and sends it to the RCAs in the rear. So you could still use headphones with the high impedance headphone out with the preamp out.


----------



## dminches

They are both 1.5 watts for headphones.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





redcarmoose said:


> I think the Woo 5 is more powerful than the 5LE. A preamp out may be a cool option on the straight Woo 5. They could use an input set of RCAs on the back with out doing too much changing to the chassis. These are just simple guesses on my part. Email Jack at Woo when you get serious.
> 
> The straight Woo 5 is going to more flexable with more headphones. This is just from what I have read around here. Still the 5 LE is way more power than I would ever need with the headphones I have used. I have never found much sound difference from using either high or low impedance ports. Still though I also only tried about 12 different headphones with my amp.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the input. I was chatting more with frank1. he is probably right in the sense that there are enough speakers out there in the 91db and above to pair with the WA5. 
   
  There are always sacrifices and i don't think the WA5 and LE will be the answer for all headphone and speaker options.
  In a sense i suppose it would be almost an endgame system and maybe the WA5 would be a better option because the LE would rule out a HE6 and i don't think that is acceptable. 
   
  I was under the illusion that the Le could power the HE6 - my bad.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> arent the wa5's normal headphone outputs like really weak? like a little over half a watt? how does that work out? seems like ud need speaker for he-6 and audeze


 
  not true it 1.5 watts. The audeze works well single ended on the low setting and it may even be better that on the XLR because the lcd2 is not hard to drive and I really cant go too lound on the xlr setting. The HD800 and T1 work on the high setting and  easily. The XLR drives the hE6 where the single ended low setting wont get the maximum out of the he6.
   
  The WA5 speaker amp will drive all  dynamic and planar headphones easily and sounds effortless when doing so. The amp is really great for all headphones and it allows usage of the 10 watts being available to drive the he6 and its the best I have heard it in my system. The magic of the WA5 is the 300B tubes


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Thanks for the input. I was chatting more with frank1. he is probably right in the sense that there are enough speakers out there in the 91db and above to pair with the WA5.
> 
> There are always sacrifices and i don't think the WA5 and LE will be the answer for all headphone and speaker options.
> In a sense i suppose it would be almost an endgame system and maybe the WA5 would be a better option because the LE would rule out a HE6 and i don't think that is acceptable.
> ...


 
  I made the decision because I wanted a 300B amp that could power high efficiency speakers and all the headphones including the he6 which was one of my favorite headphones and still is. I also wanted it to drive my other headphones and since it drives speakers I am using them nearfield and glad I made this choice. For me its an end game amplifier. Ghere are tons of speaekrs that this will drive including some great floor-standers like Coincident Technology,ZU,Tektron and Omega just to scratch the surface then there sis Salk,Hawthorne and many more. The sound for me of the direct heated triodes make this end game for me.


----------



## kazsud

frank i said:


> I did not buy the upgraded parts. I maxed out my budget and then some.



 
 Nice to know. I was getting discouraged looking at the upgrad prices


----------



## kazsud

reeltime said:


>



 
 Why doesn't it have the xlr output


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> Why doesn't it have the xlr output




It is not a balanced amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I made the decision because I wanted a 300B amp that could power high efficiency speakers and all the headphones including the he6 which was one of my favorite headphones and still is. I also wanted it to drive my other headphones and since it drives speakers I am using them nearfield and glad I made this choice. For me its an end game amplifier. Ghere are tons of speaekrs that this will drive including some great floor-standers like Coincident Technology,ZU,Tektron and Omega just to scratch the surface then there sis Salk,Hawthorne and many more. The sound for me of the direct heated triodes make this end game for me.


 
  thanks frank. this is the no1 one amp for me now. i probably wont get the money together for a while because i have decided not to sell the WA2 and i will get a DAC first - maybe B stock vioelectric V800 from thomann. Of course if i sell some paintings you never know what could happen.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Why doesn't it have the xlr output


 
  That look like an LE not the WA5. The 5 has the speaker post and the XLR output


----------



## Thaddy

Does anyone have advice how a WA2 would drive some JH Audio JH5 Pro's?  Jack recommends the WA2 to drive headphones between 25 and 600 Ohms.  The JH5 Pro's have an impedance of 21 Ohms.  Safe to be driven by the WA2?  Or, should I look into buying an extension cable (which I need anyways) with an inline resistor?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Does anyone have advice how a WA2 would drive some JH Audio JH5 Pro's?  Jack recommends the WA2 to drive headphones between 25 and 600 Ohms.  The JH5 Pro's have an impedance of 21 Ohms.  Safe to be driven by the WA2?  Or, should I look into buying an extension cable (which I need anyways) with an inline resistor?


 
  i don't know if the WA2 is up to the task. Anything below 60 ohms is usually a no go.. it says 25-600 on the site but 32 and 50 ohm headphones don't sound good on it, at least the ones i have tried. some stay above 150 ohms with the WA2 for saffety. 
   
  I would be sceptical of those impedance leads some people think they are a gimmick.


----------



## Thaddy

I'd really want to hear them on the WA2 and figured at the least an extension with a resistor would be ok.  Is that not true?


----------



## flaming_june

Mmm yes, this talk about wa5 is relevant to my interests...
   
  My only concerns are that I'll need to buy another 5u4g to pair up with my left over eml, and to get an 3xlr to 4 or se connector for the T1.9


----------



## Redcarmoose

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thanks frank. this is the no1 one amp for me now. i probably wont get the money together for a while because i have decided not to sell the WA2 and i will get a DAC first - maybe B stock vioelectric V800 from thomann. Of course if i sell some paintings you never know what could happen.


 
  Waiting and dreaming about a new Woo is the best part!


----------



## reeltime

It's up and running...  Dueling 596's are quite impressive in the WA5LE.
   
  Initial impressions: more slam than the EML 5U4G.  Dynamics are what the 596 seems to be about on first listen. 
   
  They seem more aggressive to me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

double mighty 596s!!!!!
   
  yeah, they're great tubes. best rectifier in my WA6-SE, very forward, dynamic, and clean sounding. very transparent.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> It's up and running...  Dueling 596's are quite impressive in the WA5LE.
> 
> Initial impressions: more slam than the EML 5U4G.  Dynamics are what the 596 seems to be about on first listen.
> 
> They seem more aggressive to me.


 
  sweet jesus they are nice - you must post more pics with different angles.


----------



## hodgjy

Resistance adapters don't do much for the headphones.  All they do is change the impedance that the amp "sees," and not the impedance that goes through the headphones.  In OTL amps, such as the WA2, the output impedance is actually determined by the interaction of the output tubes and the headphones they're driving.  By adding a resistance adapter, all you're doing is raising the output impedance of the amp, which will likely make it sound worse.
   
  Now, when it comes to amps, headphones, and output impedances, you can basically run anything you want.  You're not going to damage your headphones and you won't cause the amp to blow up.  Things just may not sound as good as they can.  Considering many stereo receivers have output impedances of 120 or 470 ohms, and they don't blow up when using headphones, there's really not much to worry about.
   
  But, I'd still ask Jack if his circuit design can take the low impedance of 21 ohms.  I don't see any reason why it physically cannot take it.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Does anyone have advice how a WA2 would drive some JH Audio JH5 Pro's?  Jack recommends the WA2 to drive headphones between 25 and 600 Ohms.  The JH5 Pro's have an impedance of 21 Ohms.  Safe to be driven by the WA2?  Or, should I look into buying an extension cable (which I need anyways) with an inline resistor?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Resistance adapters don't do much for the headphones.  All they do is change the impedance that the amp "sees," and not the impedance that goes through the headphones.  In OTL amps, such as the WA2, the output impedance is actually determined by the interaction of the output tubes and the headphones they're driving.  By adding a resistance adapter, all you're doing is raising the output impedance of the amp, which will likely make it sound worse.
> 
> Now, when it comes to amps, headphones, and output impedances, you can basically run anything you want.  You're not going to damage your headphones and you won't cause the amp to blow up.  Things just may not sound as good as they can.  Considering many stereo receivers have output impedances of 120 or 470 ohms, and they don't blow up when using headphones, there's really not much to worry about.
> 
> But, I'd still ask Jack if his circuit design can take the low impedance of 21 ohms.  I don't see any reason why it physically cannot take it.


 
  it will take it but will also sound bad IMO


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> It's up and running...  Dueling 596's are quite impressive in the WA5LE.
> 
> Initial impressions: more slam than the EML 5U4G.  Dynamics are what the 596 seems to be about on first listen.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Beautiful shot reeltime! The 596 is my favorite rectifier....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1....... We love it, reeltime!


----------



## bbophead

I'm a 596 man but I still lurves my Princess.


----------



## Silent One

"Miss Sophia" has her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





place. Especially when it's time to reclaim the day with a relaxed presentation. But when it's time to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 swing, uh-oh! Off with the head tube and in comes... _don't make me say it _





... _The Mighty 596!_


----------



## Clayton SF

I was a 596 man. Now I am a GZ37 guy... (subject to change without notice).


----------



## Silent One

I see myself as more of an Ambassador with tubes. When the occasion calls for it, placing the right tube in the right circuit.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was a 596 man. Now I am a GZ37 guy... (subject to change without notice).


 
   
  I haven't been a 596'er yet. I prefer the GZ37 and 5U4G(B), the 596 is safely stored. Maybe it's our Glenn amp that prefers a non 596 tube


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I was a 596 man. Now I am a GZ37 guy... (subject to change without notice).


 
   
   
  i don't have a 596 but i do prefer gz37 to eml 5u4g.  after all i want my tube amp to sound like tube amp


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i don't have a 596 but i do prefer gz37 to eml 5u4g.  after all i want my tube amp to sound like tube amp


 
   
  That's exactly my point. The 596 doesn't do that for me


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i don't have a 596 but i do prefer gz37 to eml 5u4g.  after all i want my tube amp to sound like tube amp


 
  Exactly! The GZ37 is the caviar of my 300B GlennAmp, the cream of the crop, the bee's knees.
   
  Tubulus Maximus Noninterruptus.


----------



## GrindingThud

I may have found a cure. 


dubstep girl said:


> :blink:
> 
> 
> grindingthud said:
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Who doesn't like a great cure?!


----------



## mangler

Does anybody know anything about the GES mkII? : 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/woo-gets-them-while-they’re-young

I haven't kept up with this thread, so sorry if its already old news. Anyway, does anybody know when this is expected to release and/or if the mkI will still be available after the mkII comes out? I'm hoping that it will be because I've been saving up to get an sr-507 and GES, but i could only afford a mkI, not an mkII. So, if anybody has any additional info I'd love to hear about it. Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ooooh a baby WES basically.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ooooh a baby WES basically.


 
  I heard it in NY and it should be coming out soon. it sounded fantastic. I heard it with the 009 and the 404LE and liked the easy flowing sound. It goign to be a great amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it'd be weird to buy though, only 1500$ separates it from the WES, and the older GES is good enough for the other stax. if i was buying 009 i'd get the most expensive amp so it would be kinda a waste. seems like its only purpose in life is for like the 007 or something like that...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I heard it in NY and it should be coming out soon. it sounded fantastic. I heard it with the 009 and the 404LE and liked the easy flowing sound. It goign to be a great amp.


 
   
  Beyond euphoric, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can it _swing_? Bass, percussive and hard-hitting but with rhythm...


----------



## Frank I

To some 1500.00 is a lot of money.


----------



## Silent One

To me, that's a lotta dough.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> To some 1500.00 is a lot of money.


 
   
  I agree. And to others, a $500 amp is bliss. Enjoy the music while in the moment and you can't go wrong. Chase every amp that comes along and you'll never stop chasing them.
   
  My mother always said: "Settle down, will you?" She's still saying that.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I agree. And to others, a $500 amp is bliss. *Enjoy the music while in the moment and you can't go wrong.* Chase every amp that comes along and you'll never stop chasing them.
> 
> My mother always said: "Settle down, will you?" She's still saying that.


 
   
  If you ever hear me whistling to _Muzik_ inside an elevator... you'll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




understand. The ability to live in the moment can take things higher. I live by the aforementioned wisdom you shared.


----------



## mangler

Ditto! But, as far as I know, it's the most affordable tube-based electrostatic amp around, so I'd be willing to save up 1500 for one, but that's pushing it. There's no way I could swing 3500, which is why I really hope they don't discontinue the GES mkI. Hopefully they won't discontinue it and the MkII will be that step between he GES and WES


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If you ever hear me whistling to _Muzik_ inside an elevator... you'll
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I heard a funny quote once. Someone said that the moment when you realize that your music has been accepted by the general public at large is the moment when you hear your song in an elevator played by Muzak. Hah!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I heard a funny quote once. Someone said that the moment when you realize that your music has been accepted by the general public at large is the moment when you hear your song in an elevator played by Muzak. Hah!


 
   
  Yup, I believe it! Speaking of Muzak, the film "The Blues Brothers" had me laughing and slappin' at the pizza pan sitting on the coffee table. The scene where they were desperately trying to reach the Cook County Assessor's Office, while under heavy chase from the Chicago Police, Illinois State Troopers and National Guard. Calmly riding up the elevator with Muzak's version of "The Girl from Ipanema" playing... _loved it!_


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> How does 120 ohms make sense if the HE-6 and LCD are 50 ohms?
> Can the WA5-le not power the HE-6 as efficiently on the low impedance switch?
> 
> I am thinking of getting the WA5-LE- pre amp option, do you not think that this is more versatile overall?


 
   
  The 120 ohms is only related to the K1000 output. here are the specs of the AKG K1000 headphones:
 *Technical specifications:*

 Transducer: Dynamic

 Type: Free sound-field

 Frequency Response: 30 - 25,000 Hz

 Impedance: 120.0 Ω

 SPL: 74.0 dB

 Connector: 4-pin XLR

  

 So the WA5 K1000 output is designed to match the headphones. I can power my HE-6 fairly good with my WA5-LE but for some odd reason they sound better to me out of the High Impedance output than the Low Impedance output where they should be. My guess is that the High Impedance output provides higher current. It also depends on the driver tubes you use. In some cases I can hear the amp struggling. The best drivers I have tried with them are the Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top. But again with more power you will be able to tel the difference.

 Since the K1000 output is design for 120 ohms connecting the HE-6 or LCD-2/3 which have lower impedance is actually going to give you more power than stated in the amp specs.

  

 If you are planning to use the HE-6 and/or LCD with the amp my personal opinion is to go with the WA5 and not the LE. That's what I would have done if the HE-6 or LCD were out in the market back when I ordered my amp.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





frank i said:


> That look like an LE not the WA5. The 5 has the speaker post and the XLR output


 
  You are right Frank. That is for sure a LE version.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mangler said:


> Does anybody know anything about the GES mkII? :
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/woo-gets-them-while-they’re-young
> 
> I haven't kept up with this thread, so sorry if its already old news. Anyway, does anybody know when this is expected to release and/or if the mkI will still be available after the mkII comes out? I'm hoping that it will be because I've been saving up to get an sr-507 and GES, but i could only afford a mkI, not an mkII. So, if anybody has any additional info I'd love to hear about it. Thanks!


 
  I wonder what are the differences between the Mk I and Mk II to justify a jump in price from $1,590 to $3,500.


----------



## GrindingThud

Ok, not the intended cure (that's still in the mail).... So I wait. 
In the mean time, I don't think I've ever been more excited over a tube than today. I finally got to unbox an elusive TungSol 7802WB. http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/077/7/7802WB.pdf
Ceramic spacers, graphite anodes, and a transconductance of 20,000! It's heavy....106 grams heavy, and a bottom end to match. It's fast, it's a bit cool, not warm, not fat, not round, not veiled.....the soundstage is really wide, but well damped and not artificial. Listening to Mara & David, Once we were Gods...outstanding vocals and string plucking. The tube takes a very long time to warm up. Too soon for me to rank it amongst the others, but its got a sassy snap I kinda like right now. 




silent one said:


> Who doesn't like a great cure?!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Ok, not the intended cure (that's still in the mail).... So I wait.
> In the mean time, I don't think I've ever been more excited over a tube than today. I finally got to unbox an elusive TungSol 7802WB. http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/077/7/7802WB.pdf
> Ceramic spacers, graphite anodes, and a transconductance of 20,000! It's heavy....106 grams heavy, and a bottom end to match. It's fast, it's a bit cool, not warm, not fat, not round, not veiled.....the soundstage is really wide, but well damped and not artificial. Listening to Mara & David, Once we were Gods...outstanding vocals and string plucking. The tube takes a very long time to warm up. Too soon for me to rank it amongst the others, but its got a sassy snap I kinda like right now.


 
  you got that in the woo 3??


----------



## GrindingThud

Yep, seems to like it. 




magiccabbage said:


> you got that in the woo 3??


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Yep, seems to like it.


 
  wonder what they would be like in the WA2?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> wonder what they would be like in the WA2?


 
   
   
  +1
   
  is it similar to 6080WB?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thinking about WA22 again....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i'd basically have all the best tubes for it


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thinking about WA22 again....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  thinking about buying it?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah.. i just worry it might not as good as WA2 for T1.  it might be too bright or thin. seems like alot of ppl say its similar to WA6-SE. so yeah im not sure exactly how it would sound. and like no1 near me has a WA22 i could audition.
   
  i would love a WA22 though if its a good as ppl say. then when the other amps i want, i only have 1 woo instead of 2 smaller woos.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah.. i just worry it might not as good as WA2 for T1.  it might be too bright or thin. seems like alot of ppl say its similar to WA6-SE. so yeah im not sure exactly how it would sound. and like no1 near me has a WA22 i could audition.
> 
> i would love a WA22 though if its a good as ppl say. then when the other amps i want, i only have 1 woo instead of 2 smaller woos.


 
  So your thinking of getting rid of the 2 other's that you have and going for the WA22? Hmmmm?


----------



## magiccabbage

sell the WA6-se and keep the WA2? i was thinking of getting the WA22 myself but because it would not power the HE6 i decided against it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i was gonna look into some SS amp for the HE-6


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i was gonna look into some SS amp for the HE-6


 
  like? link?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i dunno some endgame like darkstar or gsx2. long ways away though, i have to buy HE-6 first. and thats not happening until th-900 and lcd-3 are bought.
   
  decided im keeping HE-500 too, its very unique in its presentation and quite a lovely little headphone to have around. however, im looking for a better amp for them as well. right now the T1/WA2 destroys the HE-500 in almost everything.


----------



## GrindingThud

Yes, but also lowers the output impedance and drives a little more power, much like the 7236.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> is it similar to 6080WB?


----------



## helljudgement

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thinking about WA22 again....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If I were you I would sell both the 6se and wa2 to buy the wa22 or the 300b wa5. I doubt you would enjoy the t1 less on the wa22. But luckily for me I'm not you so I don't have to worry about upgrades 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I enjoyed what I have so far. The hd800 may well be my end game no more upgrades on that front in the near future. Only thing on my radar now is a good dac and some nos tubes and I'm done with head fi for a long while. Perhaps a gsx mkii solid state in future but luckily for me there's no accessible way for me to get it where I'm at and the waiting list is about 80 years? Maybe more so that may never happen but hey I never thought I could get the set up I have now 6 months back so who knows...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i dunno some endgame like darkstar or gsx2. long ways away though, i have to buy HE-6 first. and thats not happening until th-900 and lcd-3 are bought.
> 
> decided im keeping HE-500 too, its very unique in its presentation and quite a lovely little headphone to have around. however, im looking for a better amp for them as well. right now the T1/WA2 destroys the HE-500 in almost everything.




with all the headphones you have in mind, i recommend the wa5 instead of wa22. the wa22 can drive all headphones except the he6 and the lcd2/3 will be better with wa5 too. i did not have the t1 for long but during the time i own it it pair very well with wa22 with ts7236, nu6f8g, and mullard metal base gz34.

oh, the beta22 drives the he6 very well if you are into dyi amps.


----------



## Frank I

Ok I bought two 596 tubes and the matching adapters are being made by Woo. I asked Woo and Simon Ho told me they are the best rectifiers they have heard in the WA5 so I sprung for them. I hope I like them. I am done with tube buying for a long while now for the WA5.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Ok I bought two 596 tubes and the matching adapters are being made by Woo. I asked Woo and Simon Ho told me they are the best rectifiers they have heard in the WA5 so I sprung for them. I hope I like them. I am done with tube buying for a long while now for the WA5.


 
   
  hehe. So you bought them after all


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> hehe. So you bought them after all


 
  LOL I am a mooch. I appreciated you comments and if I dont like them they will sell easily but Simon talked me into it. More money


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





frank i said:


> LOL I am a mooch. I appreciated you comments and if I dont like them they will sell easily but Simon talked me into it. More money


 
   
  Let me know what you think when you get them


----------



## Frank I

will do and appreciate you input also.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

596 is best rectifier i've heard so far for the woo. and omg, now im even more undecided on WA22. 
   
  just got my GEC 6AS7G's. listening now with HD 800/WA2. omg....these are finally the ones. i think they finally tick every box and do everything right. speed, air, transparency, soundstage, bass, detail, warmth, grain-free, forgiving, they are making my HD 800s sound amazing. i can't believe how good the WA2 sounds. seems like that last veil was lifted finally and the HD 800s sound faster too, no grain either!!


----------



## GrindingThud

Wow, those are nice!



dubstep girl said:


> 596 is best rectifier i've heard so far for the woo. and omg, now im even more undecided on WA22.
> 
> just got my GEC 6AS7G's. listening now with HD 800/WA2. omg....these are finally the ones. i think they finally tick every box and do everything right. speed, air, transparency, soundstage, bass, detail, warmth, grain-free, forgiving, they are making my HD 800s sound amazing. i can't believe how good the WA2 sounds. seems like that last veil was lifted finally and the HD 800s sound faster too, no grain either!!


----------



## Frank I

nice tubes little girl. LOL WA22 is one order for you. I bought the 596 if they are what you say I sure I will like them . if not will have a pair plus adapters for sale for your WA22


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im sure you will love them. as long as your other tubes are nice and warm to warm them up. the 596 is very clear and upfront sounding to me, almost SS like but with some tubeness to it. only tube that would come close is mullard gz34 (maybe metal base but i haven't heard that one yet, only black base).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

anyone know if the curved base really is better? i kinda wish i had another one. i might try and sell my used regular pair for one.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im sure you will love them. as long as your other tubes are nice and warm to warm them up. the 596 is very clear and upfront sounding to me, almost SS like but with some tubeness to it. only tube that would come close is mullard gz34 (maybe metal base but i haven't heard that one yet, only black base).


 
  now you scaring mer. i dont want SS sounding. i want tube sounding tubes that why I own a tube amp. My RCA 5U4G are very clear and have mid range magic with great bass. Hope they sound  as good or this will be a quick sale.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh dw, they're not SS sounding as in harsh or really bright. just hard to explain but they're forward and more neutralish with some warmth and stuff. but they aren't smooth lush or tubey rectifiers.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh dw, they're not SS sounding as in harsh or really bright. just hard to explain but they're forward and more neutralish with some warmth and stuff. but they aren't smooth lush or tubey rectifiers.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it sounds like i bought a new amp....these tubes are really that much better than 5998. the hd 800 have never sounded this good, i can truly say these are more detailed than T1 now. they're sooo good!!!! omg. everything has life now...
   
  next step, get rid of my bugle boys and try and grab a pair of Siemens CCa
   
  this is with hd 800 too, can't wait to get T1 back, seems like beyer sent them back in the mail today. very fast, hopefully i get them by the end of this week.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it sounds like i bought a new amp....these tubes are really that much better than 5998. the hd 800 have never sounded this good, i can truly say these are more detailed than T1 now. they're sooo good!!!! omg.
> 
> next step, get rid of my bugle boys and try and grab a pair of Siemens CCa
> 
> this is with hd 800 too, can't wait to get T1 back, seems like beyer sent them back in the mail today. very fast, hopefully i get them by the end of this week.


 
  Jesus now your tempting me. I will get a new DAC next , maybe in 2 or 3 months and then its the HD800! Maybe i will get those GEC's if they are that good. 
  When you have lived with them for 3 or 4 weeks and have gone between the T1 and HD800 you will have to write up some MAJOR IMPRESSIONS?? 
  Do you mind saying how much they were?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i got all 5 tubes for 350$. 
   
  i was gonna sell the extra curved base, but now i think i'm gonna save and get a second so i have 3 pairs. these are just soooo good!!!! its one of those moments where you are rushing to discover your entire library again, just cause everything sounds so good. the hd 800 seriously got like 2-3 times better. i hope i'm not exaggerating, but i finally feel like that true audiophile sound is there. that tube magic, that clarity and lifelike quality, its there, finally.... and no fatigue at all. seems like everything is much more detailed and airy. and the bass, i've never heard the HD 800 have such tight clean organic bass. wow.... and vocals, they just feel more up front. and the hd 800s sound very fast now, like the transients really cleaned up, everything has an attack, a decay, a separation of sorts. drums are much cleaner as well as guitars.
   
  now i can't wait till i max out my driver tubes. i guess ppl are right when they say it makes your setup sound like it costs 3-4x more...


----------



## Silent One

If I may ask, what happened to the T1's and would this be the second round-tripper for the cans?


----------



## hodgjy

Stop playing mind games with yourself.  You have the end game now.  Enjoy your nirvana in Shangri-La.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> anyone know if the curved base really is better? i kinda wish i had another one. i might try and sell my used regular pair for one.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah, they broke at the metal adjustment slider thingy. where the little "t1" is stamped into the metal, they just broke when i took them off. they've been bent there before and i guess since that part of the metal is already weak, it finally just gave in to the pressure and broke. 
   
  im getting them back this week it seems. beyer fixed them much faster this time, last time it was like 2 months to get the headband replaced. i should get them sometime this week.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Stop playing mind games with yourself.  You have the end game now.  Enjoy your nirvana in Shangri-La.


 
   
  good idea! 
   




   
  like i think im actually completely happy with hd 800/wa2 now. it sounds soo good i can only imagine it will improve when i get a better DAC.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> good idea!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  that's great i might get these tubes and have them ready for when i get the HD800 and who knows maybe i will be satisfied enough not to want to go down the planar magnetic road.


----------



## hodgjy

What DAC are you considering?
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> good idea!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mytek 192, nad m51, or wyred4sound dsd.


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet.  I've always been drooling over the W4S myself.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> mytek 192, nad m51, or wyred4sound dsd.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> mytek 192, nad m51, or wyred4sound dsd.


 
  Hmmm..... that nad is sweet! it has passed under my radar until now. I will look into this, i think it is the nicer looking of the 3, thanks for posting.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> mytek 192, nad m51, or wyred4sound dsd.


 
  one of each


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> one of each


 
  ha ha - maybe with your fat wallet frank but not with mine anyway , that's for sure!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> one of each


 
   
  LOL!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> ha ha - maybe with your fat wallet frank but not with mine anyway , that's for sure!


 
  my wallet is really very empty after this amp purchase and the tubes. I am done with my buying. I sold a headphone too to replenish some funds but will be getting another headphone shortly. But I sell now to buy. I sold one to buy one. I sold two amps to help fund the WA5 well actually 3 amps. I only have the WA5 now and a review amp on its way another tube 5W headphone amp and speaker amp from a new company. Looks interesting but its a 2K amp and I wont be buying any more amps for a long long time. The WA5 I put in my will its that good.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> my wallet is really very empty after this amp purchase and the tubes. I am done with my buying. I sold a headphone too to replenish some funds but will be getting another headphone shortly. But I sell now to buy. I sold one to buy one. I sold two amps to help fund the WA5 well actually 3 amps. I only have the WA5 now and a review amp on its way another tube 5W headphone amp and speaker amp from a new company. Looks interesting but its a 2K amp and I wont be buying any more amps for a long long time. The WA5 I put in my will its that good.


 
  In your will with me also??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




- Maybe if you make it to 100 you can celebrate with a WA234 if your hearing is still intact that is!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Its never over.................


----------



## magiccabbage

**** THE POWER IN THE HOUSE JUST WENT and while the WA2 was on i hope it does not damage the amp.


----------



## GrindingThud

I drop/rapid cycle power on my WA3 all the time...never had an issue, but I would not make a habit of it. The caps hold a large charge and bleed off slowly. You get seconds of music until the tubes cool off. They are built like a tank, damage is highly unlikely with the Woo design.



magiccabbage said:


> **** THE POWER IN THE HOUSE JUST WENT and while the WA2 was on i hope it does not damage the amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I drop/rapid cycle power on my WA3 all the time...never had an issue, but I would not make a habit of it. The caps hold a large charge and bleed off slowly. You get seconds of music until the tubes cool off. They are built like a tank, damage is highly unlikely with the Woo design.


 
  I am happy now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the amp is fine! thanks


----------



## Silent One

_Roll 'em Hawk, let's jump for joy!_


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> **** THE POWER IN THE HOUSE JUST WENT and while the WA2 was on i hope it does not damage the amp.


 
   
  should be ok.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Should be ok indeed. Just turn it off to be really safe. Don't forget your amps have fuses as well


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Should be ok indeed. Just turn it off to be really safe. Don't forget your amps have fuses as well


 
  everything is "sweet and dandy"


----------



## Ultrainferno

Good to hear


----------



## palchiu

My friend's WA2 mod.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

omg lol


----------



## hodgjy

The only real concern I have is when the power cuts out for a second and then comes back on.  But, even this shouldn't be overly bad.
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Should be ok indeed. Just turn it off to be really safe. Don't forget your amps have fuses as well


----------



## Frank I

If the amp is plugged into a power conditioner or surge protector there should be no issue. Even if not there dis a fuse that protects the amplifier and will just blow usually. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> My friend's WA2 mod.


 

 Someone more knowledgeable about electronics care to explain what's so special/lol about this?


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





frank i said:


> If the amp is plugged into a power conditioner or surge protector there should be no issue. Even if not there dis a fuse that protects the amplifier and will just blow usually. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## hodgjy

Looks like oil caps to me.
   
  Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Someone more knowledgeable about electronics care to explain what's so special/lol about this?


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Looks like oil caps to me.


 

 Oh! So that's what those used toilet rolls are!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> 596 is best rectifier i've heard so far for the woo. and omg, now im even more undecided on WA22.
> 
> just got my GEC 6AS7G's. listening now with HD 800/WA2. omg....these are finally the ones. i think they finally tick every box and do everything right. speed, air, transparency, soundstage, bass, detail, warmth, grain-free, forgiving, they are making my HD 800s sound amazing. i can't believe how good the WA2 sounds. seems like that last veil was lifted finally and the HD 800s sound faster too, no grain either!!


 
   
  X2, definitely the best tube for HD800.
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> im sure you will love them. as long as your other tubes are nice and warm to warm them up. the 596 is very clear and upfront sounding to me, almost SS like but with some tubeness to it. only tube that would come close is mullard gz34 (maybe metal base but i haven't heard that one yet, only black base).


 
   
  The metal based is slightly better and I think it is better than the 596 too. 
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> anyone know if the curved base really is better? i kinda wish i had another one. i might try and sell my used regular pair for one.


 
   
  If you are really looking for it, yes it is better.  The last time I did a comparison, it was really late at night and I have to take notes.  It has more depth, the instruments placement is more accurate.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> good idea!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just wait til you tried out the maxxed WA22 with GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP / NU 6F8G,  and metal based GZ34 combo...  There is something in this combo keep telling me not to sell it and get the WA5.
   
  DG, if I were you, I will look at the PWD instead.  You will not regret it.


----------



## Silent One

Value ~
   
  Something to keep in mind about the USAF-596 is the value it originally offered for its performance. Not so long ago before speculation and market forces kicked in, pricing for the glass could be seen for $13-$17. Then eventually headed to $30-$36. And then...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So, in the early days of discovery, this glass offered some of the biggest bang-for-buck that could be had for a Woo.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Value ~
> 
> Something to keep in mind about the USAF-596 is the value it originally offered for its performance. Not so long ago before speculation and market forces kicked in, pricing for the glass could be seen for $13-$17. Then eventually headed to $30-$36. And then...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Totally agreed, some of my 596 are from the low $20s shipped while the metal based GZ34 can but me 10-15 more 596s... I guess I have to try everything and was/is looking for that additional 1-2% improvement.


----------



## Frank I

same for the rare tungsol 6sn7 round plates they are selling regularly for 250-300   or more a  pair.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





frank i said:


> same for the rare tungsol 6sn7 round plates they are selling regularly for 250-300   or more a  pair.


 
   
  This has been around $300-$350 pair NOS for years.


----------



## Redcarmoose

frank i said:


> my wallet is really very empty after this amp purchase and the tubes. I am done with my buying. I sold a headphone too to replenish some funds but will be getting another headphone shortly. But I sell now to buy. I sold one to buy one. I sold two amps to help fund the WA5 well actually 3 amps. I only have the WA5 now and a review amp on its way another tube 5W headphone amp and speaker amp from a new company. Looks interesting but its a 2K amp and I wont be buying any more amps for a long long time. The WA5 I put in my will its that good.




I'll never sell mine.

My favorite things in my life....


Wife
Dog
House
Woo 5LE


----------



## Frank I

I agree with your assessment except I have kids so they are very important. One of my girls will end up with the mighty Woo at one point. This amp is never leaving here. Hell I sold all the other amps used for headphones. I dont need anything else.


----------



## Redcarmoose

frank i said:


> I agree with your assessment except I have kids so they are very important. One of my girls will end up with the mighty Woo at one point. This amp is never leaving here. Hell I sold all the other amps used for headphones. I dont need anything else.





The cool part is tube amps do last along time. They can be repaired too, being point to point. At one time I owned a collection of old tube amps. A Fisher x100, Scott, Fisher 500, all from the 50s and 60s. They still performed well.

Heck the 300b is really from the first days of amplification, in the fist transatlantic telephone line. It does not look like the technology is going to be improved anytime soon.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Totally agreed, some of my 596 are from the low $20s shipped while the metal based GZ34 can but me 10-15 more 596s... I guess I have to try everything and was/is looking for that additional 1-2% improvement.


 
   






 Yes, we are the 1 Percenters! Sometimes, our pursuit has been known to out do Ambulance chasers.


----------



## banger

Was finally able to source a set of Royal Princess 300B's at an affordable price! Got them 3 months used,
  from someone who had sold their 300B amp. He needed the cash and I had it! Replacing a set of Princess mesh
  tubes that I upgraded to on the original amp build out. Very noticeable difference in sound stage, and airy
  presentation. Even my wife could tell a difference right away! And that's saying something! LOL
   
  Going to spend some quality time with them now, but from what I am hearing over the past couple
  of days, these are going to be in my WA5LE for a loooooonnnnnnggggg time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  Or, at least until I can source a set of Takatsuki TA-300B's


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Value ~
> 
> Something to keep in mind about the USAF-596 is the value it originally offered for its performance. Not so long ago before speculation and market forces kicked in, pricing for the glass could be seen for $13-$17. Then eventually headed to $30-$36. And then...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glenn introduced me to the 596. Back then it was $8 a tube.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





banger said:


> Was finally able to source a set of Royal Princess 300B's at an affordable price! Got them 3 months used,
> from someone who had sold their 300B amp. He needed the cash and I had it! Replacing a set of Princess mesh
> tubes that I upgraded to on the original amp build out. Very noticeable difference in sound stage, and airy
> presentation. Even my wife could tell a difference right away! And that's saying something! LOL
> ...


 
   
  I read a lot of great review of them but never see or audition one in person, please write up a review.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn introduced me to the 596. Back then it was $8 a tube.


 
   
   
  yea, and it wasn't too long ago.  a year?  2 years maybe?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Glenn introduced me to the 596. Back then it was $8 a tube.


 
   
  That's even a sweeter peach! I threw my '596' peach into a cobbler @ $13, not bad either.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> yea, and it wasn't too long ago.  a year?  2 years maybe?


 
   
  Perhaps, 1.5? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
*Blast from the past!*
   
   

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  post #14641 of 26367

  10/19/11

  THREAD STARTER 

     

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/d9/100x100px-LS-d9a321fe_1000x500px-LL-e32aef2a_DSCF0089.jpg[/img]
 
 dannie01




  
 offline
 
 1,548 Posts. Joined 2/2008
 Location: Hong Kong
 


   The 596 rectifiers and Glenn's adapters finally both received today. These tubes are HUGH compare to Mullard GZ34 and 37, almost as tall as the EML 5U4G and you can see from the pics below (please forgive me the messy cable management) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, they are as big as the EAT 300B and look very special. They are also heavier than expect, maybe the different construction make how it weight. Only one and a half hour on the amp but I admit that the previous impression of these tubes are right, they sound fuller than the Mullard. The texture of highs to mids are so nice, not a lush highs like the Mullard or EML but still very nice and with different presentation. Soundstage is not as wide as the EML but not conjested at all, sound very open.
   
   




 *Feedback:* _HeadFi/ Ebay/ Audiogon_


----------



## Frank I

Mine were shipped and Woo is shipping my adapters. So by the end of this week I will have them


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Perhaps, 1.5?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  you have some amazing pictures in your profile!


----------



## solserenade

dubstep girl said:


> 596 is best rectifier i've heard so far for the woo. and omg, now im even more undecided on WA22.
> 
> just got my GEC 6AS7G's. listening now with HD 800/WA2. omg....these are finally the ones. i think they finally tick every box and do everything right. speed, air, transparency, soundstage, bass, detail, warmth, grain-free, forgiving, they are making my HD 800s sound amazing. i can't believe how good the WA2 sounds. seems like that last veil was lifted finally and the HD 800s sound faster too, no grain either!!




Hey cool did you listen to any music? If you did what was it?

 Thanks.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just wait til you tried out the maxxed WA22 with GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP / NU 6F8G,  and metal based GZ34 combo...  There is something in this combo keep telling me not to sell it and get the WA5.
> 
> DG, if I were you, I will look at the PWD instead.  You will not regret it.


 
   
   
  This is pretty much how I run my WA22 currently, very fine tube combination  I also prefer the metal based GZ34 to my 596s. Another tube I really rate as a rectifier is the 5r4g by Brimar. Much better than the common RCAs / potato mashers etc. I definately think the 22 responds well to a low voltage drop across the rectifier. One day I will try dig out details on my 83s and see if I can make them fit / work 
   
  DG, glad you have gound the GECs and see why a few of us rave about them. They make the 5998 / 7236s look average. Once tried, there is no turning back  I personally think there is little difference between curved and straight base variants, so buy both. I also have a 6se, 2 and 22. If I were sell one it would be the 6se but I am not going to . It is a great amp but the 2 and 22 gain more from the proper tubes (like GECs). I don't have a T1 (on wish list as next headphone purchase) but I think this will excel on the WA2 out of these three amps.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> This is pretty much how I run my WA22 currently, very fine tube combination  I also prefer the metal based GZ34 to my 596s. Another tube I really rate as a rectifier is the 5r4g by Brimar. Much better than the common RCAs / potato mashers etc. I definately think the 22 responds well to a low voltage drop across the rectifier. One day I will try dig out details on my 83s and see if I can make them fit / work
> 
> DG, glad you have gound the GECs and see why a few of us rave about them. They make the 5998 / 7236s look average. Once tried, there is no turning back  I personally think there is little difference between curved and straight base variants, so buy both. I also have a 6se, 2 and 22. If I were sell one it would be the 6se but I am not going to . It is a great amp but the 2 and 22 gain more from the proper tubes (like GECs). I don't have a T1 (on wish list as next headphone purchase) but I think this will excel on the WA2 out of these three amps.


 
   
   
  how different do you feel WA22 is? i really want to get it, but i feel it might be too similar to WA6-SE, or not as smooth and clean sounding as WA2. especially WA2 vs WA22 with maxed tubes, do you feel the wa22 is enough of an improvement to get? if i got WA22, i'd basically have all the best tubes. i know i prefer the WA2 over the WA6-SE, i find the WA6-SE to be a little brighter and not as sweet sounding. its very good with LCD-2 but not as good with hd 800/t1. 
   
   


solserenade said:


> Hey cool did you listen to any music? If you did what was it?
> 
> Thanks.


   
  just just went through my entire library just skipping through songs basically. everything sounded good, especially mainstream music, was very musical then tried some random jazz and audiophile recordings and they sounded better than ever. and then i just kept skipping through lots of other stuff. vocals where especially good.
   



jc9394 said:


> Just wait til you tried out the maxxed WA22 with GEC 6AS7G, TS BGRP / NU 6F8G,  and metal based GZ34 combo...  There is something in this combo keep telling me not to sell it and get the WA5.
> 
> DG, if I were you, I will look at the PWD instead.  You will not regret it.


 




   
  yeah i'm still interested in a WA22. i just worry about how it would sound with T1, i know everything else would work ok. also jack doesn't sell maxed anymore does he? i sometimes feel like just selling both my woos and just going for WA22.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how different do you feel WA22 is? i really want to get it, but i feel it might be too similar to WA6-SE, or not as smooth and clean sounding as WA2. especially WA2 vs WA22 with maxed tubes, do you feel the wa22 is enough of an improvement to get? if i got WA22, i'd basically have all the best tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Drew  will re-cable theT1 to balanced on the T1 for you. Problem solved. The guy to ask about that is Macedonian Hero. peter had the two amps and the T1 you are asking about.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> how different do you feel WA22 is? i really want to get it, but i feel it might be too similar to WA6-SE, or not as smooth and clean sounding as WA2. especially WA2 vs WA22 with maxed tubes, do you feel the wa22 is enough of an improvement to get? if i got WA22, i'd basically have all the best tubes. i know i prefer the WA2 over the WA6-SE, i find the WA6-SE to be a little brighter and not as sweet sounding. its very good with LCD-2 but not as good with hd 800/t1.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i'm still interested in a WA22. i just worry about how it would sound with T1, i know everything else would work ok. also jack doesn't sell maxed anymore does he? i sometimes feel like just selling both my woos and just going for WA22.




I never have the WA2 along with other Woo but the WA22 is a huge leap from WA6SE (maxxed) when I did the comparison, at that time I did not have the GEC 6AS7G and TS BGRP, with GEC 6080, Brimar CV1988, and EML 5U4G.

On T1, I did not own it long enough to get a good impression but it does sound very good out of WA22.


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Value ~
> 
> Something to keep in mind about the USAF-596 is the value it originally offered for its performance. Not so long ago before speculation and market forces kicked in, pricing for the glass could be seen for $13-$17. Then eventually headed to $30-$36. And then...
> 
> ...


 

 So question at what price point do you think this tube passes been worth the money, when say looking at the cost of an EML tube.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> So question at what price point do you think this tube passes been worth the money, when say looking at the cost of an EML tube.


 
   
  The EML 5U4G sounded really good inside my_ WA 6 Special Edition_. Cost $260 USD. I enjoyed the presentation of the USAF-596 inside the Woo over the EML Glass. I could have found happiness with either - differences were not great, but noticeable. 
   
  All things considered, and to answer your question, the '596' has not passed being worth the money at its current price to me in the setup I had. And especially in comparison to the EML 5U4G... what's the current price on this European glass again? 
   
  At time of evaluation, an over $200 rec was taken down by an under $20 rec.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Someone more knowledgeable about electronics care to explain what's so special/lol about this?


 

 Some Riken and AMRG resistors.
   
  Signal hook-up wires and caps are Duelund's silver foil wires and Cu caps. (he is rave with Duelund's stuff)
   
  Two Gold film caps are Odin.
   
  Other electrolytic caps are BHC and Jensen.
   
  DACT pot.
   
  I didn't listened his amp, but we will have a small meeting later.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Some Riken and AMRG resistors.
> 
> Signal hook-up wires and caps are Duelund's silver foil wires and Cu caps. (he is rave with Duelund's stuff)
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've heard some great things over the years about Dueland caps... would love to hear this amp! Hope you enjoy your meeting and please report back to us.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've heard some great things over the years about Dueland caps... would love to hear this amp! Hope you enjoy your meeting and please report back to us.


 
   
  Sure.
   
  We'll have WA2 mod./WA5/WES+009 @meeting, but it's later in October.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Sure.
> 
> We'll have WA2 mod./WA5/WES+009 @meeting, but it's later in October.


 
   





 How I wish that meeting was taking place in Southern California...


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> How I wish that meeting was taking place in Southern California...


 
   
   
  or you can come to hong kong.  i remember seeing all that at the annual hifi show


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> or you can come to hong kong.  i remember seeing all that at the annual hifi show


 
   
  Does the show take place in October, as does the Tokyo show? And what's the weather like at that time of year?


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does the show take place in October, as does the Tokyo show? And what's the weather like at that time of year?


 
   
   
  august most of the time.  this year is starting on the 9th


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Drew  will re-cable theT1 to balanced on the T1 for you. Problem solved. The guy to ask about that is Macedonian Hero. peter had the two amps and the T1 you are asking about.


 
   
  i thought you just needed balance source for WA22.
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I never have the WA2 along with other Woo but the WA22 is a huge leap from WA6SE (maxxed) when I did the comparison, at that time I did not have the GEC 6AS7G and TS BGRP, with GEC 6080, Brimar CV1988, and EML 5U4G.
> 
> On T1, I did not own it long enough to get a good impression but it does sound very good out of WA22.


 
   
  would u describe the WA22 as a warm amp or a dynamic and forward amp like the WA6-SE, thats like my biggest concern. jack says its less dynamic and the most euphonic amp in the series, alot of reviews though say its forward in the mids and stuff though.


----------



## Silent One

The '22' is more euphonic, less dynamic than the_ 6 Special Edition_. At least that was my experience on a couple of different occasions.
   
   
  Add: My recently sold D7000 were "Balanced drive" headphones (4x22awg XLR). So I was hearing them with the WA22 in its natural configuration. And with a XLR>SE adapter on my own Woo. But I bring this up to show the evaluation was made with the same cans.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Drew  will re-cable theT1 to balanced on the T1 for you. Problem solved. The guy to ask about that is Macedonian Hero. peter had the two amps and the T1 you are asking about.


 
  Yep, for the T1s, best bang for your buck Woo amp was the WA2. Simply fantastic combination. The WA22 (with about $1k of tube upgrades) was ever so slightly more ethereal and dynamic. But not enough to justify the extra $1.5k for it IMO.
   
  But for the HD800s, the price difference was worth it for me as the WA22 played so very well with them!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Yep, for the T1s, best bang for your buck Woo amp was the WA2. Simply fantastic combination. The WA22 (with about $1k of tube upgrades) was ever so slightly more ethereal and dynamic. But not enough to justify the extra $1.5k for it IMO.
> 
> But for the HD800s, the price difference was worth it for me as the WA22 played so very well with them!


 
   
  hmm...does the WA22 still do a good job at taming the T1's treble and bringing out the mids and bass? 
   
  it'll be nice to hear hd 800s on WA22, they sound great on WA2 now, but im sure they can still improve some.
   
  hopefully my setup will look like jack's on the website


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm...does the WA22 still do a good job at taming the T1's treble and bringing out the mids and bass?
> 
> it'll be nice to hear hd 800s on WA22, they sound great on WA2 now, but im sure they can still improve some.
> 
> hopefully my setup will look like jack's on the website


 
  I think it was worth it for the HD800s, but not so much for the T1s. Overall I was happy I made the move up.
   
  Here is my favourite tube compliment for it:
   
  Power: Tung-Sol 7236s
  Driver: Sylvania Brown Base 5962s
  Rectifier: EML 5U4G Mesh Plate


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm. well thats good, but the t1's don't sound worse out of WA22 right? 
   
  i'm sure ill enjoy the hd 800 and lcd-2 if i get the wa22, just don't want to lose that t1/wa2 magic.


----------



## Silent One

Well, sometimes you give up something to gain something. Great, if a single amp could serve one's entire line-up of cans. That magic could very well get left behind as a memory for the T1. I'm suggesting only, as I don't have such fine gears and accessories.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm. well thats good, but the t1's don't sound worse out of WA22 right?
> 
> i'm sure ill enjoy the hd 800 and lcd-2 if i get the wa22, just don't want to lose that t1/wa2 magic.


 
  Definitely not! They sound a bit better on the WA22 actually!
   
  The LCD-2s are a huge improvement on the WA22 IMO.


----------



## Silent One

What a relief! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 We're pulling for you DSG!


----------



## hodgjy

You sold your beloved Denons! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  What cans are you using now?
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Add: My recently sold D7000 were


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm. well thats good, but the t1's don't sound worse out of WA22 right?
> 
> i'm sure ill enjoy the hd 800 and lcd-2 if i get the wa22, just don't want to lose that t1/wa2 magic.


 
  you are in Chicago right? New York is about 2.5 hours away if you fly. Why don't you ask jack if you can call over and check out the WA22 and WA5? If i lived that close i would be on a plane, no bother.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> You sold your beloved Denons!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I know... shame on me! And I was looking to go over the 2,000 hour mark this summer (total: 1,809 hrs). Unkind economic times forced
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the sale. I still have 6 month old HD650's but may have to show them the door as well. 
   
  Later in autumn I'll start over with building a new system. At this time, everything else is in storage, so no more overnight listening sessions. Or the tales
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that followed. I did enjoy sharing a few details at sunrise with y'all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So thrice a week,iPod/HD650 only!


----------



## hodgjy

Sorry to hear about the tough economic times.  That's no bueno. 
   
  That's not a bad combo!  I have used my iPod and HD600s at times and have been pleased.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> So thrice a week,iPod/HD650 only!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That's not a bad combo!  I have used my iPod and HD600s at times and have been pleased.


 
   
  It's decent in a pinch. Will clip on some tracks even at low volume. I remind myself this is all a temporary experience. Oh, I shipped out my beloved D5000 to make way for the D7000 when it had 1,926 hours. I was soooo close to 2k!!!


----------



## hodgjy

I do respect and appreciate your dedicated record keeping!
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's decent in a pinch. Will clip on some tracks even at low volume. I remind myself this is all a temporary experience. Oh, I shipped out my beloved D5000 to make way for the D7000 when it had 1,926 hours. I was soooo close to 2k!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I do respect and appreciate your dedicated record keeping!


 
   
  Thanks. Oddly enough, I do it without really thinking about it. Passion prevents it from ever feeling like a chore. Same with my tea ceremony. When I set out to prepare a bowl of delicate green Jasmine Dragon Pearls from China, I count/watch the time at two to three stages during prep. Yet, I never think about it.
   
  Pleasure can do that to a person.


----------



## aive

hey DBG, are your new tubes completely silent?
   
  When I first purchased my WA2, one of the stock tubes was a bit noisy (intermittent static/hum only audible with no music). I then bought a pair of 5996's from vacuumtubes.net, one of those was noisy too (similar sort of noise). My next purchase may be the 7236's but I don't know - is there such a thing as completely silent tubes? I dunno, I'm a bit OCD too...
   
  BTW, I narrowed it down to being a tube issue as when I swapped the tubes around from left to right (as Jack recommended) the noise followed.
   
  Maybe should just wait and get GS-X >< I think WA2 doesn't have enough juice for my newly purchased LCD3s, after about 1'oclock mark, the volume doesn't really increase anymore..... run out of power?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah all my tubes and my wa2 has alwasy been silent.


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's decent in a pinch. Will clip on some tracks even at low volume. I remind myself this is all a temporary experience.


 
  An excellent mindset. 
   
  I am sure you also quickly go to just enjoying the music and stop thinking about the equipment.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i thought you just needed balance source for WA22.
> 
> 
> would u describe the WA22 as a warm amp or a dynamic and forward amp like the WA6-SE, thats like my biggest concern. jack says its less dynamic and the most euphonic amp in the series, alot of reviews though say its forward in the mids and stuff though.


 
   
  WA22 response very well with tube selections, it can be very tubey or dynamic and forward but not quite as WA6SE.  If I have to pick a word, romantic, is how I will describe WA22.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I think it was worth it for the HD800s, but not so much for the T1s. Overall I was happy I made the move up.
> 
> Here is my favourite tube compliment for it:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm. well thats good, but the t1's don't sound worse out of WA22 right?
> 
> i'm sure ill enjoy the hd 800 and lcd-2 if i get the wa22, just don't want to lose that t1/wa2 magic.


 
   
  DG, with the tubes you have now your HD800 will kick ass with WA22.


----------



## banger

I had the T1, HD800, LCD-3 when I owned my WA22. Of the three, I would have to give the nod to the LCD-3 for the most enjoyment with it.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





banger said:


> I had the T1, HD800, LCD-3 when I owned my WA22. Of the three, I would have to give the nod to the LCD-3 for the most enjoyment with it.


 
  what have you got now?


----------



## mitsu763

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> what have you got now?


 

 Check his sig


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





mitsu763 said:


> Check his sig


 
  what? there is nothing in his profile. I don't know what sig means.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  At the bottom of is message is lighter print:
   
  Home rig: Wyred 4 Sound Music Server>Wyred USB Cable>Wyred DAC2 DSDse>Fully Upgraded Woo Audio WA5-LE with preamp out, Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B, Sylvainia 6SN7WGTA NOS, Sophia Royal Princess 300B>Q-Audio SE>LCD-3/HD800/TH900
 Portable rig: iBasso DX100>AOL Continental v.2>Westone ES5


----------



## banger

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> what have you got now?


 

 It's in my sig...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wa22 has enough power for audeze then right?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wa22 has enough power for audeze then right?


 
   
  Plenty with 5998 and 7236 but not quite as good as more powerful amp like beta22 and other SS amps but it does drive it really well as long as you are feeding some hot balanced in.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wa22 has enough power for audeze then right?


 
  send Jack the check already


----------



## jc9394

One thing DG, the GEC 6AS7G is not the best tube for WA22 if you are using LCDs.  The TS 7236 is much better match, it is better than TS 5998 by a little too, it is subtle but you can definitely tells.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The WA22 is the amplifier for the LCDs, my LCD3 loves it. It can't power a HE6 however though the 500 is fine. It is the 'alrounder' of the team and does a good job across the board, the LCD3 struggle a bit in the WA2. The WA2 OTL has some special abilities and this is where the synergy on the 800 (and T1) works so well. I do feel the WA22 needs a balanced source and balanced headphones to get the best out however. I currently use some TS 7236s in my WA22 where the GECs are in the WA2 though it is no problem putting the same tube in different amps for testing. The 800 can be made to work well in both amps.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmmm, maybe ill end up like ardilla with both wa2 and wa22, but that'd be expensive


----------



## Silent One

Depending on viewing device and format selected, a user may or may not have signature available to read on device.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmmm, maybe ill end up like ardilla with both wa2 and wa22, but that'd be expensive


 

 I loaned Ultrainferno my WA2. My WA22 and Beta22 are my bedside rig. Love 'em all.


----------



## dminches

Clayton, did you build your Beta 22?


----------



## Frank I

Got the 596 tubes today and Woo shipped my adapters today so  will be up and running shortly.


----------



## dminches

How do people compare the WA5 LE and the WA22 for the LCD-3s?


----------



## hodgjy

Ya, rip the band aid off already.  I have to live vicariously though your amp selections!
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> send Jack the check already


----------



## jc9394

```

```



dminches said:


> How do people compare the WA5 LE and the WA22 for the LCD-3s?




WA5LE by a mile, that 300B does have magic with LCD.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmmm, maybe ill end up like ardilla with both wa2 and wa22, but that'd be expensive


 
  I don't think the WA22 is an end game, i personally know i would only crave the WA5 later and you are looking for an end game rig right?
  your dilemma seems to be that you want to keep the WA6-LE and WA2 because of the time and money you invested in tubes and what not.
   
  I remember how hard it was to let go of my electric guitar rig but in the end i sold it off and got an amazing Cole Clark Fat lady 3. I don't regret it, sometimes i miss the electric but what i have now is far superior. 
   
  If i wasn't into guitars i would have a WA5


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, did you build your Beta 22?


 
   
  I think his is built by Corey of SWA.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Clayton, did you build your Beta 22?


 
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think his is built by Corey of SWA.


 
   
  That is correct.
_*Corey of SWA *_built it. Mine is the one with the big 22 on the fascia. He does EXCELLENT work.


----------



## banger

I started with the WA2, then came the WA22, and finally to put a stop my wallet hemorrhaging money, the WA5LE.
   
  Looking back, should have just went with the WA5 in the first place. Not that the journey wasn't fun
  and educational! Just would have saved a lot of money. Hind site is always 20/20 though.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> That is correct.
> _*Corey of SWA *_built it. Mine is the one with the big 22 on the fascia. He does EXCELLENT work.


 
   
  This one?
   

   
  mines is on his site too.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ YES! 
  I haven't used the weights in years. But the OTL GlennAmp and Corey's b22--always.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





banger said:


> I started with the WA2, then came the WA22, and finally to put a stop my wallet hemorrhaging money, the WA5LE.
> 
> Looking back, should have just went with the WA5 in the first place. Not that the journey wasn't fun
> and educational! Just would have saved a lot of money. Hind site is always 20/20 though.


 
  Is that a Megadeth lyric?


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Is that a Megadeth lyric?


 
   
     
  Preferences


     
  Preferences


     
  Preferences

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  alt

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  Preferencesis our business and business is goodis our business and business is good


_Woo Is Our Business and Business Is Good._


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





mrq said:


> Preferences
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hahahah


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> ^ YES!
> I haven't used the weights in years. But the OTL GlennAmp and Corey's b22--always.


 
   
   
  Very nice Clayton!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Ya, rip the band aid off already.  I have to live vicariously though your amp selections!


 
  LOL I am with my final amp now. I took a long road to get where I needed to be and am really done buying any amps.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> The WA22 is the amplifier for the LCDs, my LCD3 loves it. It can't power a HE6 however though the 500 is fine. It is the 'alrounder' of the team and does a good job across the board, the LCD3 struggle a bit in the WA2. The WA2 OTL has some special abilities and this is where the synergy on the 800 (and T1) works so well. I do feel the WA22 needs a balanced source and balanced headphones to get the best out however. I currently use some TS 7236s in my WA22 where the GECs are in the WA2 though it is no problem putting the same tube in different amps for testing. The 800 can be made to work well in both amps.


 
   
  how different do you think WA2 and WA22 are? 
   
  i feel i can get rid of WA6-SE, but it'd be hard to get rid of WA2. WA6-SE is a great amp and all, but still can show some harshness at times.


----------



## GloryUprising

HD700 inbound!
   
  ...Maybe I should unpack the WA6-SE....
   
  ......I think I will. Anyone have any tube combo suggestions?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> HD700 inbound!
> 
> ...Maybe I should unpack the WA6-SE....
> 
> ......I think I will. Anyone have any tube combo suggestions?


 
   
  6FD7 + GZ37


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> 6FD7 + GZ37




No 6FD7 for this amp. Too vintage... 

You love that gz37 eh? Better then a 5ar4?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> No 6FD7 for this amp. Too vintage...
> 
> You love that gz37 eh? Better then a 5ar4?


 
   
   
  yeah great tube. warm sweet tube sound. not sure if better but its pretty good...
   
  and wow no 6FD7, you must have one of the really early ones then. can it do 6DR7? its pretty good, just not as good on the bass as 6FD7.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to HD 800/WA2 some more today,  with the GEC tubes, really impressed by these tubes, they really took the WA2 to the next level. (all my music sounds different, alot better i can hear more details and sound is very holographic with great instrument placement, imaging, and layering)
  still undecided on the WA22, i can't imagine it getting better than this 
   
  i should get my T1 back tomorrow or saturday.


----------



## jc9394

With balanced input, WA22 will walk all over WA2 pairing with HD800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> With balanced input, WA22 will walk all over WA2 pairing with HD800.


 
   




   
  also one more thing. whats 6sn7 like? cause i enjoy my 6922/E88CC tube sound. the hd 800 sounds great with bugle boys and the t1 with the orange globes. EDIT: oh wow, with these tubes, the a frames actually really good on hd 800


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> With balanced input, WA22 will walk all over WA2 pairing with HD800.


 
   
  Here, let me grab _that _emoticon for you!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> :eek:
> 
> also one more thing. whats 6sn7 like? cause i enjoy my 6922/E88CC tube sound. the hd 800 sounds great with bugle boys and the t1 with the orange globes. EDIT: oh wow, with these tubes, the a frames actually really good on hd 800




I don't have the WA2 to let you know but when I have both even my wife said there is a big difference between the two. That is about few weeks I have the maxxed WA22 and before I got the GEC 6AS7G and TS BGRP. She said it is more details and like listening live when I played the Jacky Cheung concert that we did attended.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Here, let me grab _that_ emoticon for you!




Can you make it WA5 walk all over WA22 too? I'm still dreaming about it...:mad:


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Can you make it WA5 walk all over WA22 too? I'm still dreaming about it...


 
   
  Two peas in a pod... I'm still dreaming about it.


----------



## jc9394

Only if I did not make the move to upgrade my camera FX format and brought the camera that requires the best possible glasses...


----------



## Silent One

That was a satisfying move! It's not like you spent it on something consumable; perishable.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Can you make it WA5 walk all over WA22 too? I'm still dreaming about it...


 
   
   
  both amps with stock tubes and with stock cable(t1) and using the same source, rca input.  yea i remember wa5 easily better.


----------



## Nahuatl

I always have liked the retro look of tube amps, specially these Woo Audio Amps.
  Is cool seeing pictures from the different owners in this thread.
   
  I was wondering, how long have the actual amps have lasted for the current owners? excluding the tubes.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





nahuatl said:


> I was wondering, how long have the actual amps have lasted for the current owners? excluding the tubes.


 
   
  I have a buddy who has a working 64 year old amp based on the Williamson design from his grandfather. It's more than 3 times his age.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nahuatl said:


> I always have liked the retro look of tube amps, specially these Woo Audio Amps.
> Is cool seeing pictures from the different owners in this thread.
> 
> I was wondering, how long have the actual amps have lasted for the current owners? excluding the tubes.


 
   
  No reliability problems here. When I was in possession of the _WA 6 Special Edition_, ran it for 18 months/2600 hours without incident. If it weren't for a special head-fier, I'd still be enjoying it.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmmm, maybe ill end up like ardilla with both wa2 and wa22, but that'd be expensive


 
   
  Some of us have ended up with the three and are still exchanging communication with Jack on the WA5!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how different do you think WA2 and WA22 are?
> 
> i feel i can get rid of WA6-SE, but it'd be hard to get rid of WA2. WA6-SE is a great amp and all, but still can show some harshness at times.


 
   
  The 22 and 2 are quite different in their approach which I think several have eluded at already. When propely set up the 22 has immense potential. The capability to roll / try new flavours is huge which is why I love it. The 2 however is much more limited here. The output tubes are sorted with GECs. The rectifiers are fine and you can swap these but as much as everyone loves the 'ecc88 / e88cc / 6dj8 / 6922 etc etc' this is the limiting factor. The tube is very fashionable atm with everyone seemingly using it but when you get to try some of the older and bigger tubes you see the limitations. I love the ecc88 tube and have hundreds to roll but this is what is holding the 2 back. On the 22, stick in 6F8G, BL63 you will see a decent jump in quality over a huge range of already excellent 6SN7s. These are probably a better sounding tube to the 88 if all else was equal to start with. There are lot's of fine sounding tubes out there we are not using that Woo or others can exploit (2C51 / 5670, 6BL7GT / 6BX7GT, DHT (Direct Heated Triodes). Some tubes are seriously underpriced for what they are but we are using them for headphone amps like EF91, EF92, EF94, EFS95. Then there are the 'fashion' tubes where people spend telephone numbers for tubes. Huge drive to get the ultimate version of an average tube. Unfortunately this is where we are with the ECC88 (and alternatives) but this one is widely available unlike the 'quality' DHTs. We are probably here because of current manufacture. No interest in a quality tube like Mullard ECC88 or Amperex 6DJ8 but obsession for a gold pin CCa. No interest in some amazing Russian variants also.The 596 is now going this route, but  a lovely tube that not so long ago was $10. I think of it as an inside out 5U4GB, another lovely tube which is now much cheaper than the 596! Way too much fashion here and too little engineering and people trying stuff for themselves. The 596 DOES have a very different look in an amp that some will go for, not my scene (though I have them). Rant over (sorry ) but basically with what Woo has given us on the 2 and 22 then there is much more room to grow on the 22 and do this much less money.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> The 22 and 2 are quite different in their approach which I think several have eluded at already. When propely set up the 22 has immense potential. The capability to roll / try new flavours is huge which is why I love it. The 2 however is much more limited here. The output tubes are sorted with GECs. The rectifiers are fine and you can swap these but as much as everyone loves the 'ecc88 / e88cc / 6dj8 / 6922 etc etc' this is the limiting factor. The tube is very fashionable atm with everyone seemingly using it but when you get to try some of the older and bigger tubes you see the limitations. I love the ecc88 tube and have hundreds to roll but this is what is holding the 2 back. On the 22, stick in 6F8G, BL63 you will see a decent jump in quality over a huge range of already excellent 6SN7s. These are probably a better sounding tube to the 88 if all else was equal to start with. There are lot's of fine sounding tubes out there we are not using that Woo or others can exploit (2C51 / 5670, 6BL7GT / 6BX7GT, DHT (Direct Heated Triodes). Some tubes are seriously underpriced for what they are but we are using them for headphone amps like EF91, EF92, EF94, EFS95. Then there are the 'fashion' tubes where people spend telephone numbers for tubes. Huge drive to get the ultimate version of an average tube. Unfortunately this is where we are with the ECC88 (and alternatives) but this one is widely available unlike the 'quality' DHTs. We are probably here because of current manufacture. No interest in a quality tube like Mullard ECC88 or Amperex 6DJ8 but obsession for a gold pin CCa. No interest in some amazing Russian variants also.The 596 is now going this route, but  a lovely tube that not so long ago was $10. I think of it as an inside out 5U4GB, another lovely tube which is now much cheaper than the 596! Way too much fashion here and too little engineering and people trying stuff for themselves. The 596 DOES have a very different look in an amp that some will go for, not my scene (though I have them). Rant over (sorry ) but basically with what Woo has given us on the 2 and 22 then there is much more room to grow on the 22 and do this much less money.


 
   
  oh ok. and as far as the expensive ECC88s and CCas, the 6F8G/6SN7 still are better? and the WA22 can get even better with tube rolling than the WA2 or WA6-SE? also does the WA22 have that woo audio bass like the WA2/WA6-SE? (i know my HD 800 sounds great on WA2 cause the bass is so good, some might find it slightly colored or muddied, but its good).
   
  Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> Some of us have ended up with the three and are still exchanging communication with Jack on the WA5!


 
   
  !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





nahuatl said:


> I always have liked the retro look of tube amps, specially these Woo Audio Amps.
> Is cool seeing pictures from the different owners in this thread.
> 
> I was wondering, how long have the actual amps have lasted for the current owners? excluding the tubes.


 
   
  We'll see. I started collecting tube amps in September 2009. That makes the first one almost 4 years old. I now have quite a collection and except for the trade-up to the Leben CS600 from the CS300XS, I still own all of them. I did loan the WA2 to Ultrainferno for a year just because it can take that long to fall in love (or not) with one depending on the tubes you use. I also have 2 ss amps one of which was built by Corey of SWA.


----------



## Ultrainferno

And it's a great amp! You'll have it back shortly!


----------



## Wapiti

Nic, wonderful post and an excellent reminder to maintain perspective.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> We'll see. I started collecting tube amps in September 2009. That makes the first one almost 4 years old. I now have quite a collection and except for the trade-up to the Leben CS600 from the CS300XS, I still own all of them. I did loan the WA2 to Ultrainferno for a year just because it can take that long to fall in love (or not) with one depending on the tubes you use. I also have 2 ss amps one of which was built by Corey of SWA.


 
   
  One of the best collections I may add!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> We'll see. I started collecting tube amps in September 2009. That makes the first one almost 4 years old. I now have quite a collection and except for the trade-up to the *Leben CS600 from the CS300XS*, I still own all of them. I did loan the WA2 to Ultrainferno for a year just because it can take that long to fall in love (or not) with one depending on the tubes you use. I also have 2 ss amps one of which was built by Corey of SWA.


 
   
  How is the Leben CS600 compare to CS300XS?  This one is on my short list.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





wapiti said:


> Nic, wonderful post and an excellent reminder to maintain perspective.


 
  Who care about perspective?  Let's just have fun!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That was a satisfying move! It's not like you spent it on something consumable; perishable.


 
   
  Here is my WA5...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Here is my WA5...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Sake%20shooters.


 
  Oooooo. Sake cups!


----------



## dminches

That is some serious glass.  I haven't bought new lenses in a while.  I mainly use a 24-70 2.8 and a 70-200 2.8 with my D2x.  I do have a 200-400 f/4 which is a monster but doesn't get much use.
   
  This was shot with the 200-400 with a 1.7x on a moving boat on choppy waters, hand held!  Effectively 1000mm.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Oooooo. Sake cups!


 
  that won't get us long to be drunk... they are the size of Foster oil can...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dminches said:


> That is some serious glass.  I haven't bought new lenses in a while.  I mainly use a 24-70 2.8 and a 70-200 2.8 with my D2x.  I do have a 200-400 f/4 which is a monster but doesn't get much use.
> 
> This was shot with the 200-400 with a 1.7x on a moving boat on choppy waters, hand held!  Effectively 1000mm.


 
   
  I do have few zooms (16-35, 24-70, and 70-200) in my bag but lately I'm trying to force myself using prime like the old days. Some pics I took last month...


----------



## dminches

The 2nd one is a beaut.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do have few zooms (16-35, 24-70, and 70-200) in my bag but lately I'm trying to force myself using prime like the old days. Some pics I took last month...


 
   
  What a shot! Where's my Champagne & Rock Lobster?1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your beautiful WA5... in the requisite black no less!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How is the Leben CS600 compare to CS300XS?  This one is on my short list.


 
  I use the Leben CS600 for speakers only as I did mainly with the 300. The 600 has, by far much, a much more 3D and expansive sound. I gets hotter than the 300 but that is normal because of its four 6L6GC tubes, single 6CJ3 damper tube, and four 6CS7 driver tubes. It's transformers are massive. And its bass response is almost subsonic.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What a shot! Where's my Champagne & Rock Lobster?1


 
   
  Lobster maybe but no Champagne, the location is Boston Federal Court.  I do not want US Marshall and Homeland Security to drive me home (jail).


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I use the Leben CS600 for speakers only as I did mainly with the 300. The 600 has, by far much, a much more 3D and expansive sound. I gets hotter than the 300 but that is normal because of its four 6L6GC tubes, single 6CJ3 damper tube, and four 6CS7 driver tubes. It's transformers are massive. And its bass response is almost subsonic.


 
   
  The Yen is at very low now, I may get a Leben before WA5.  You can get a TH900 for around $1600 shipped from Japan lately.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> ... using prime like the old days. Some pics I took last month...


 
   
  Primes FTW.


----------



## jc9394

Definitely primes kick ass, zoom will never gets you the bokeh to die for...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

cool pics.


----------



## scolaiw

dubstep girl said:


> cool pics.




+1


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Definitely primes kick ass, zoom will never gets you the bokeh to die for...


 
  If I wanted to zoom, I'll walk closer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And damn, HD700 giving the LCD3s a run for the money... hmmmm..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my T1 back! they replaced the entire headband, my old one was the 5k series, this one is from the 11k series beyers. seems like its a little wider, the leather is softer,and the sliding mechanism is nice and solid, it doesn't move all over the place like the old one, it actually clicks into place like its supposed to!
   
  peter and the entire beyer service team are awesome!!


----------



## liahos1

Holy Crap!! I just got my setup ergh...setup! 

I'm going to running an O2/ODAC + HD650 to running a

Toslink Optical>Gungnir balanced>WA22>Balanced HD650.

Difference is night and day!!! These headphones are so much more detailed now but still warm. I'm still new to the headfi game but man what a difference. I'm burning in my WA22 on stock tubes but I have the upgrade set. So happy. The decision I made was after reading this forum for the last few weeks. Thanks everyone!!


----------



## dminches

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got my T1 back! they replaced the entire headband, my old one was the 5k series, this one is from the 11k series beyers. seems like its a little wider, the leather is softer,and the sliding mechanism is nice and solid, it doesn't move all over the place like the old one, it actually clicks into place like its supposed to!
> 
> peter and the entire beyer service team are awesome!!


 
   
  Can you post a pic when you get a chance?  I am curious what the 11k series band looks like.


----------



## jc9394

liahos1 said:


> Holy Crap!! I just got my setup ergh...setup!
> 
> I'm going to running an O2/ODAC + HD650 to running a
> 
> ...




Get a hold of the Treasure and GZ34, they will tame the warm of the HD6x0 (lift the veil).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Get a hold of the Treasure and GZ34, they will tame the warm of the HD6x0 (lift the veil).


 
   
  or mighty 596 (assuming it retains the same sound on the WA22 as on my WA6-SE)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





dminches said:


> Can you post a pic when you get a chance?  I am curious what the 11k series band looks like.


 
   
   

   
  looks about same as old one, maybe a little wider, and the leather is very soft, finer than old one.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

testing these tubes out finally with T1


----------



## Silent One

Armed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and dangerous... look at that tube arsenal!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Armed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  i got way too many tubes now, yet it still feels im lacking tube rolling options at times.
   
  if i get WA22, i'll be selling quite a few of them (the 6DE7 and the 6922/EZ80s)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i got way too many tubes now, yet it still feels im lacking tube rolling options at times.
> 
> if i get WA22, i'll be selling quite a few of them (the 6DE7 and the 6922/EZ80s)


 
   
  Looks like a fantastic Friday night.


----------



## atomicbob

So how does one go about acquiring GEC  A1834 / 6AS7g brown base tubes? I see the ones that are always offered on ebay for $250 to $500 per tube. I would like to hear one in my WA3+.


----------



## GrindingThud

Just be patient, very patient. They will show up and the eBay gods will fall asleep. then you move, and move fast! I got one for $60 not long ago off ebay. Same with my 421A. Or find a 'secret seller'.



atomicbob said:


> So how does one go about acquiring GEC  A1834 / 6AS7g brown base tubes? I see the ones that are always offered on ebay for $250 to $500 per tube. I would like to hear one in my WA3+.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what i still want to know is if WE 421A are really better than TS 5998  or if they are just a $500 a pair version of the 5998.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm. impressions from GEC 6AS7 and Beyer T1. I need different driver tubes. as of now, the GEC is definitely better tonally and more detailed than 5998. but is lighter on the bass and also brighter in the treble.
   
  with Sylvania 7308, not very good, with Bugle Boys, most detail, wide and airy, but improvements also made midrange weird and treble bright at times, was too bass light, maybe only good with good recordings, the T1s sounded really fast with this combination.  with Amperex A-frame 6922, also bass light and weird midrange/treble. and now, with reflector 6n23p, the bass kinda came back and treble wasn't bad, mids came out, but this tube isn't as good as the amperex, so transparency and soundstage aren't as good.
   
  conclusion, Amperex A frame 6922 and 5998 are best with T1. i should upgrade to WA22 or get different drivers (maybe mullard cv2492?). i need to find a combo that works with T1/GEC 6AS7G, its hard to go back to the 5998 since it has less detail than the GEC.
   
   
  now....the HD 800 and GEC 6AS7G/Bugle boys was outstanding. a little bright at times still, but the details and soundstage and everything was soooo good.


----------



## Silent One

I'm only curious with other people's money.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> So how does one go about acquiring GEC  A1834 / 6AS7g brown base tubes? I see the ones that are always offered on ebay for $250 to $500 per tube. I would like to hear one in my WA3+.


 
   look out for a used example, they is a big jump between NOS boxed and a lightly used A1834 / 6AS7g, so think £40 to £60. Tube is long life one so plenty of excellent milege in it for you especially as you only need one. You will need to be patient hopwever. The source DG and I bought at have a very pair up for sale atm by £275 ($415) plus shipping which is too high I feel.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Ouch 415$, one of my pairs looks exactly like those. I did end up buying an extra curved base to complete my pair, 239$ + shipping, but curved is rarer.

So i will have nos curved and nos straight pair, and a used straight pair


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow GEC 6AS7G sounds great with T1, but the tubes need to really warm up or they sound bright. gotta leave them on for a while. and my WA2 is hot as **** right now.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wow GEC 6AS7G sounds great with T1, but the tubes need to really warm up or they sound bright. gotta leave them on for a while. and my WA2 is hot as **** right now.


 
  sweet


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im starting to like the HD 800 more too, it sounds incredibly good with the WA2 now.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm. impressions from GEC 6AS7 and Beyer T1. I need different driver tubes. as of now, the GEC is definitely better tonally and more detailed than 5998. but is lighter on the bass and also brighter in the treble.
> 
> with Sylvania 7308, not very good, with Bugle Boys, most detail, wide and airy, but improvements also made midrange weird and treble bright at times, was too bass light, maybe only good with good recordings, the T1s sounded really fast with this combination.  with Amperex A-frame 6922, also bass light and weird midrange/treble. and now, with reflector 6n23p, the bass kinda came back and treble wasn't bad, mids came out, but this tube isn't as good as the amperex, so transparency and soundstage aren't as good.
> 
> ...


 
  Do you use bugle boys with your 5998's?


----------



## GrindingThud

Some may cry foul, but maybe try listening to RCA 6CG7 cleartops with the GEC to see if you like the signature. I think it might tame the top end and fill in the bottom while keeping air and detail. It's at least worth a listen. 



dubstep girl said:


> hmm. impressions from GEC 6AS7 and Beyer T1. I need different driver tubes. as of now, the GEC is definitely better tonally and more detailed than 5998. but is lighter on the bass and also brighter in the treble.
> 
> with Sylvania 7308, not very good, with Bugle Boys, most detail, wide and airy, but improvements also made midrange weird and treble bright at times, was too bass light, maybe only good with good recordings, the T1s sounded really fast with this combination.
> with Amperex A-frame 6922, also bass light and weird midrange/treble. and now, with reflector 6n23p, the bass kinda came back and treble wasn't bad, mids came out, but this tube isn't as good as the amperex, so transparency and soundstage aren't as good.
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Some may cry foul, but maybe try listening to RCA 6CG7 cleartops with the GEC to see if you like the signature. I think it might tame the top end and fill in the bottom while keeping air and detail. It's at least worth a listen.


 
   
  are they compatible.
   
  and yeah with 5998, i use bugle boys for hd 800, and 6922 orange a-frames for my T1.
   
  also seems like the treble isn't as bright after a few hours. right now my WA2's been on for a while and the amp is pretty hot, and its not as bright, it sounds smoother. so also i've noticed GEC take quite a while to warm up. its not like the other tubes where they sound ok when u just turn them on.


----------



## GrindingThud

Heater current is higher (like 6N1P-EV), and gain is lower (~17). It will be a little under biased (at least it is in the WA3). I've read where some have even used the 6GU7 in WA2 and somewhat liked it. http://www.head-fi.org/t/411676/6922-substitutes-for-the-wa2-part-2. For those after solid state like sound, either would be a step in the wrong direction. I like the 6CG7 in my WA3 and have actually gone further and I'm using 6SN7 (via adapter) as my normal listening tubes. I was after space and detail and this seemed to do it for me.. The 6GU7 was too far out of the operating zone and sounded too dark IMHO. My WA3 still has the factory circuit in the driver stage.



dubstep girl said:


> are they compatible.
> 
> and yeah with 5998, i use bugle boys for hd 800, and 6922 orange a-frames for my T1.
> 
> also seems like the treble isn't as bright after a few hours. right now my WA2's been on for a while and the amp is pretty hot, and its not as bright, it sounds smoother. so also i've noticed GEC take quite a while to warm up. its not like the other tubes where they sound ok when u just turn them on.


----------



## atomicbob

Thanks for the advice GrindingThud and Nic Rhodes. Wanting to hear what difference the A1834 makes over TungSol 5998 in WA3+ for HD800. Biggest difference I experienced was changing the source from the Sonos internal DAC to a Violectric V800. What an improvement in clarity and definition that made. Current setup is quite sonically satisfying but it would be nice to have the GEC in the collection.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

night and day from 5998. really opens the hd 800s up. 5998 still has better bass though, it has more bass and its a little slower in decay. the gec seems to have good synergy with hd 800 though, the hd 800s still have alot of bass with the tube and the airy nature of the tube works well with hd 800 in bring out the soundstage and details.


----------



## Silent One

Very exciting to wake up to your new adventure and discovery!


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> night and day from 5998. really opens the hd 800s up. 5998 still has better bass though, it has more bass and its a little slower in decay. the gec seems to have good synergy with hd 800 though, the hd 800s still have alot of bass with the tube and the airy nature of the tube works well with hd 800 in bring out the soundstage and details.


 

 DG, you want to look over this link for 6dj8 type sonic characteristics, I find it to be of great aid in my tube selection process in tuning my system:
   
  http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## reeltime

Shocked-- a pair of NOS 596s just went for $406.98 on eBay.  Bidding war.


----------



## Silent One

WOWZA!


----------



## Clayton SF

That is outrageous. You could have had Glenn build you an amp with tubes for a little more than that.


----------



## Silent One

True...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

406$ for that pair that was up for sale earlier? damn


----------



## Nic Rhodes

It never ceases to awase me prices on some tubes people are willing to pay because of 'fashion', often when they are not even rare!. The LD tube rolling thread (for III, IV, IVse) is a breath of fresh air where people are trying new tubes to get the highest possible sound. These tubes are nearly always <£5. The Glenn thread has a thick streak of common sense on tubes also amongst many post on cookies rolleyes. Woo luckily has the wonderful WA6SE to play here. I just wish more people did the 'roller' amps that exploited great tubes that go for peanuts.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmm. i think i'm almost ready for WA22, still thinking about it.
   
  are there any problems with the stepped attenuator, i've heard low impedance can sometimes get too loud with 7236/5998, think it would be better to order one without the steps and just a regular volume knob? like is there enough room to adjust the volume on sensitive headphones like denons and grados?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm. i think i'm almost ready for WA22, still thinking about it.


 
  So if you do get the WA22 you will keep the WA2 and sell the WA6-le or sell both? or keep both? I was in the WA22 mindframe a while back and then i said to myself that i want the WA5 more. 
   
  If you keep the WA2 and go for the WA22 then have both side by side to see if the 22 drives T1/HD800 better than the WA2 - you would be doing me a favour then maybe i would go for the WA22 also.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> So if you do get the WA22 you will keep the WA2 and sell the WA6-le or sell both? or keep both? I was in the WA22 mindframe a while back and then i said to myself that i want the WA5 more.
> 
> If you keep the WA2 and go for the WA22 then have both side by side to see if the 22 drives T1/HD800 better than the WA2 - you would be doing me a favour then maybe i would go for the WA22 also.


 
   
  i would have to sell both amps unfortunately. and the market isn't looking very good right now, theres a WA2 and a WA6-SE for sell in the forums that just won't go. 
   
  i'm gonna have to throw in a bunch of tubes for free when i do sell them....


----------



## daverich4

dubstep girl said:


> hmm. i think i'm almost ready for WA22, still thinking about it.
> 
> are there any problems with the stepped attenuator, i've heard low impedance can sometimes get too loud with 7236/5998, think it would be better to order one without the steps and just a regular volume knob? like is there enough room to adjust the volume on sensitive headphones like denons and grados?





The power switch has both a high and low output setting with quite a bit of difference between them. Just as a point of reference I use the high setting with HD800's and 5998's. I've never felt the steps on the attenuator were too coarse to let me listen at the volume I wanted.


----------



## jc9394

daverich4 said:


> The power switch has both a high and low output setting with quite a bit of difference between them. Just as a point of reference I use the high setting with HD800's and 5998's. I've never felt the steps on the attenuator were too coarse to let me listen at the volume I wanted.




X2, with your GEC you have at least two more clicks to reach the 5998 level.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

do you feel you have enough clicks with 5998/7236, even with low impedance like denon, grados, etc?


----------



## scolaiw

Hang on, all this discussion is made based on the assumption that a stepped attenuator is better than a normal volume control. Why is that the case? Shouldn't the ability to home in exactly to the volume you want be better?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thats what im curious about to, if it really is better (more accurate, channel balance, etc)


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> do you feel you have enough clicks with 5998/7236, even with low impedance like denon, grados, etc?




Yes, I never have issues with SA. I love it so much I have SA put on my beta22 and all the past Woos I owned.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

hmmm, k cause i plan on getting a grado and th-900 in the future. so i gotta make sure WA22 works well with them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> It never ceases to awase me prices on some tubes people are willing to pay because of 'fashion', often when they are not even rare!. The LD tube rolling thread (for III, IV, IVse) is a breath of fresh air where people are trying new tubes to get the highest possible sound. These tubes are nearly always <£5.* The Glenn thread has a thick streak of common sense on tubes also amongst many post on cookies rolleyes. *Woo luckily has the wonderful WA6SE to play here. I just wish more people did the 'roller' amps that exploited great tubes that go for peanuts.


 
   






 While my thread is one of gear and knowledge, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 food and music are the ties that bind.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> The Glenn thread has a thick streak of common sense on tubes also amongst many post on _*cookies*_ rolleyes. Woo luckily has the wonderful WA6SE to play here. I just wish more people did the 'roller' amps that exploited great tubes that go for _*peanuts*_.


 
   
  One does not listen to music on tubes alone. _*Cookies*_ and *peanuts* are also welcome here. rolltubes.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

A  new favourite , 5 empty boxes and paper internals, £56 ($85), no valves 
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-MULLARD-M8137-CV4004-12AX7A-BOXES-AND-INNER-WRAPS-ONLY-FREE-WORLD-SHIPPING-/251300951663?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&nma=true&si=IjpU5GDTVdaSOUi9FAUDQwQUPok%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## GrindingThud

And a bid war to match. 




nic rhodes said:


> A  new favourite , 5 empty boxes and paper internals, £56 ($85), no valves
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-MULLARD-M8137-CV4004-12AX7A-BOXES-AND-INNER-WRAPS-ONLY-FREE-WORLD-SHIPPING-/251300951663?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&nma=true&si=IjpU5GDTVdaSOUi9FAUDQwQUPok%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## redcat2

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> A  new favourite , 5 empty boxes and paper internals, £56 ($85), no valves
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-MULLARD-M8137-CV4004-12AX7A-BOXES-AND-INNER-WRAPS-ONLY-FREE-WORLD-SHIPPING-/251300951663?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&nma=true&si=IjpU5GDTVdaSOUi9FAUDQwQUPok%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


 

 Just remember you can get a refund if not delighted with your cardboard box's...lol


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





redcat2 said:


> Just remember you can get a refund if not delighted with your cardboard box's...lol


 
  I actually own a few of those too. I didn't realize you could get that much money for empty boxes and paper.
  Now where are they? Oh, here they are. They still have tubes in them. I have two of the CV4003 and two of the CV4004 and a few more as well.


----------



## Ultrainferno

What a lovely WA5 picture! (©Headfonia.com)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> What a lovely WA5 picture! (©Headfonia.com)


 
   
  All right, Ultra- if I buy a WA5 before my trip next month, we will have to cook our own meals on the bbq. Wait, that's not a bad idea either.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Just pay on delivery and worry about it then, gives you a few months


----------



## Silent One

Looks better than ice-cream!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looks better than ice-cream!


 
  It def does


----------



## banger

Especially sporting those Sophia Royal Princess 300B's!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my second GEC 6AS7G curved base. its slightly bigger than the other, so its not symmetrical


----------



## GrindingThud

Can't tell from the photo. 


dubstep girl said:


> just got my second GEC 6AS7G curved base. its slightly bigger than the other, so its not symmetrical


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> just got my second GEC 6AS7G curved base. its slightly bigger than the other, so its not symmetrical




Impression on both?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think the curved base is better than the straight base. the treble is smoother on these, the regular straight base has a slight edge at times cause of the extended treble. this one is very slightly warmer. maybe i'm just imagining things, i haven't really compared them to the other ones, i bet i won't notice much of a difference, but yeah these are nice tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i can only imagine how a WA22 would sound with these tubes + GZ34, 596, or U52, and some TS 6F8G


----------



## jc9394

I agree, the curved one is smoother and has more depth.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i was just about to say that too. i feel they're a little more holographic. and the bass might be a little less dry. its such a small difference, but i feel that these sound better than the straight base, which can sound a little lean at times (when i first heard them i was like wow, these are bright, i thought these where supposed to be darker than ts 5998).


----------



## GrindingThud

Yea, I'm going to have to pull the bottom off my amp again and measure the bias voltages with this tube in there. Amp seems to run very cool with this tube....
Also seems a bit more sensitive to vibration, while not being microphonic, noisy, or self oscillating.


dubstep girl said:


> (when i first heard them i was like wow, these are bright, i thought these where supposed to be darker than ts 5998).


----------



## jc9394

Yep, 6AS7G runs cooler than 6998/7236. 596/5U4G/274B runs cooler than GZ34 too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah GZ34 runs pretty hot on WA6-SE as well (black base, i need to get a metal base one of these days)


----------



## jc9394

DG, how are the GECs after 24 hours?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> DG, how are the GECs after 24 hours?


 
   
  EPIC!!
   
  the T1 sound better than ever. and the hd 800s are really nice too. way better than straight base. the hd 800s actually sound quite lush with these tubes. the T1s sound about as warm as with the 5998s, but the GEC is obviously much better (except 5998 still has more bass)
   
  also, decided i'm gonna buy TH-900, this week, or next week! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the HE-500 stays for now! (unless i sell LCD-2 and HE-500 later this year for LCD-3)....


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> EPIC!!
> 
> the T1 sound better than ever. and the hd 800s are really nice too. way better than straight base. the hd 800s actually sound quite lush with these tubes. the T1s sound about as warm as with the 5998s, but the GEC is obviously much better (except 5998 still has more bass)
> 
> ...


 
  You got the money together very quick. fair play. You must be working hard- saving dough.


----------



## Silent One

@ DG
   
  Whew! Maybe you'll stop for a hot minute and grab some lemonade...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> You got the money together very quick. fair play. You must be working hard- saving dough.


 

   
  Quote:


silent one said:


> @ DG
> 
> Whew! Maybe you'll stop for a hot minute and grab some lemonade...


 

   
  yes!!! and hopefully after the TH-900, i can get LCD-3 by selling my current planars, and buy a DAC later this year, holding off on amps and other headphones till later. the TH-900 and LCD-3 are basically my last major headphone purchases for a long time.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!!! and hopefully after the TH-900, i can get LCD-3 by selling my current planars, and buy a DAC later this year, holding off on amps and other headphones till later. the TH-900 and LCD-3 are basically my last major headphone purchases for a long time.


 
  I don't believe you at all..........


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!!! and hopefully after the TH-900, i can get LCD-3 by selling my current planars, and buy a DAC later this year, holding off on amps and other headphones till later. the TH-900 and LCD-3 are basically my last major headphone purchases for a long time.


 





 Yea Yea I smell an amp purchase this year also.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Yea Yea I smell an amp purchase this year also.


 
   




   
  hmm. maybe ur partially correct, might be getting WA22. (though i'll wait for a used one to pop up later this year so i can sell back if i don't like it, i need to compare with WA2/WA6-SE


----------



## Clayton SF

So, Frank, which of the 300B tubes that you own are your favorite so far?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> EPIC!!
> 
> the T1 sound better than ever. and the hd 800s are really nice too. way better than straight base. the hd 800s actually sound quite lush with these tubes. the T1s sound about as warm as with the 5998s, but the GEC is obviously much better (except 5998 still has more bass)
> 
> ...




I'm thinking about the TH-900 too, it is shipped $1600 from pricejapan.com.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm thinking about the TH-900 too, it is shipped $1600 from pricejapan.com.


 
  How about $1500 from Headroom or TTVJ?


----------



## Frank I

I love the EML 300B. I only have the Shuguang 300-98 that Jack sent and have not rolled any other s in there . I am pretty happy using the EML 300B withn the RCA 5U4G rectifiers and the Tungsol 6sn7 round plate black paint tubes. That combo been in there for over a month now and extremely happy with the sound.


----------



## snapple10

TTJV has it for $1499
   
  tempted to get a second pair


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> *TTJV has it for $1499*
> 
> tempted to get a second pair


 
   





 Yum-o!


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> How about $1500 from Headroom or TTVJ?




Woah, the last time I checked is 1900.


----------



## jc9394

Now the choice of a small travel camera or another headphone. You guys are really devil, I was so decided on Fujifilm X100s, now not so sure.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Now the choice of a small travel camera or another headphone. You guys are really devil, I was so decided on Fujifilm X100s, now not so sure.


 
  you have a great full frame Nikon so its easy


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Now the choice of a small travel camera or another *headphone.* You guys are really devil, I was so decided on Fujifilm X100s, now not so sure.


 
   
  Because you're _s-o--v-e-r-y--b-u-s-y _





, how many hours would you like me to break your new TH-900 in for?


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> hmm. maybe ur partially correct, might be getting WA22. (though i'll wait for a used one to pop up later this year so i can sell back if i don't like it, i need to compare with WA2/WA6-SE


 
  Same, but for me it's in between 22 or the 5.
   
  I've only ever seen two wa22 sold used here.  Maybe the gon will give you better luck.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Same, but for me it's in between 22 or the 5.
> 
> I've only ever seen two wa22 sold used here.  Maybe the gon will give you better luck.


 
   
  I'm with you. Well, sort of. Some moons back - Summer 2011 to be precise - I spent my entire summer chasing WA22 owners down-the-street... _"Here, take my money. Okay, how 'bout an extra bag on top of that pile?!"_
   
  After being ignored (no takers), I turned my attention strictly to the WA5. Soon after, the same owners were now chasing me down-the-street, because they knew I was offering a premium. Only to find me cafe side with a bowl of delicate Jasmine Pearls, and the iPad displaying the Black WA5 on WooAudio's website.
   
  And no longer interested!


----------



## Clayton SF

I love my WA22. It sits bedside lulling me to sleep almost every evening.


----------



## Silent One

I last heard mikemalter's and thought I'd be bringing one home soon, but it was not meant to be. Enjoyed listening to both your Woo's! However, with few contributions in the ol' tea tins, I need to move up and on... WA5 or bust!


----------



## Clayton SF

Supposing that the WA5 did not exists then which production amp would you consider for your next purchase?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Supposing that the WA5 did not exists then which production amp would you consider for your next purchase?


 
   






 Quite simple, actually. Upon descending the steps from the airport in North Carolina, I'd tell the Shuttle driver _"2359glenn studios... and step on it!" _


----------



## daverich4

flaming_june said:


> Same, but for me it's in between 22 or the 5.
> 
> I've only ever seen two wa22 sold used here.  Maybe the gon will give you better luck.




One of them must have been the all black one I bought here last winter. So mint it could have been sold as new. Been a happy, music listening dawg ever since.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just ordered th-900 from headroom, with 60$ next day shipping !


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just ordered th-900 from headroom, with 60$ next day shipping !


 
  Mother of god! the plunge has been taking. No sleep for you i'm afraid! you will be kept awake with the thought of Crimson Cans!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> just ordered th-900 from headroom, with 60$ next day shipping !




Wow, you are fast on ordering that puppy.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Because you're _s-o--v-e-r-y--b-u-s-y _
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is possible, I won't have much time til late Sept.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> How about $1500 from Headroom or TTVJ?




How does it compare to lcd3? Did you ever have the W3000?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just ordered th-900 from headroom, with 60$ next day shipping !


 
  LMAO you even paid for overnight shipping.  I think that is cool.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol told u i was impatient


----------



## Frank I

Now you need to order the new amp also


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol told u i was impatient


 
  If you get a new amp soon i will be very jealous!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> If you get a new amp soon i will be very jealous!


 
  she getting one it  about the next paycheck


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nah, ill be lucky to have lcd-3 after like 5 paychecks


----------



## snapple10

DG- congrats on Th900, you will enjoy it


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quite simple, actually. Upon descending the steps from the airport in North Carolina, I'd tell the Shuttle driver _"2359glenn studios... and step on it!" _


 
  I'll go with you. We must see Glenn's Secret Studio. Maybe if we brought him some chocolate eggs he will make us each something different. That's what I love about Glenn's work: he is always experimenting. We should film him at his workbench.
   
  Voice-over: He will tweak it to eke out the best sound from the best amp that he can design--at that very moment in time!
   
  Movie will be released this coming Holiday Season!


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!!! and hopefully after the TH-900, i can get LCD-3 by selling my current planars, and buy a DAC later this year, holding off on amps and other headphones till later. the TH-900 and LCD-3 are basically my last major headphone purchases for a long time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I'll go with you. We must see Glenn's Secret Studio. Maybe if we brought him some chocolate eggs he will make us each something different. That's what I love about Glenn's work: he is always experimenting. We should film him at his workbench.
> 
> Voice-over: He will tweak it to eke out the best sound from the best amp that he can design--at that very moment in time!
> 
> Movie will be released this coming Holiday Season!


 
   
  ('Silent One' begins to think about potential holiday movie posters for the thread...)
   
  Absolutely! During our designer's roughest days, wotts and I discussed the regular Stateside Six members of the thread flying out to see him for 1.5 days after he fully recovered. To bring him a sense of renewal, as well as see where all the magic happens. I'm still open for such a pilgrimage.
   
  To better answer the question "Why the WA5?" In the requisite Black, no
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 less. Because it was the first dedicated headphone tube amplifier I wanted. Though, could not afford it at the time. So, I got the _WA 6 Special Edition_ with the intent to get the _Big Black 5_ down the road.
   
  Looking back, this purchase is more about lust
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




& desire, than sheer performance and options but the latter still deserves consideration. As I'm nearing my savings goal once again, there are a few other amps on the short-list looming and threatening. Will I make it to the finish line this time with Woo in hand? The last time, the extremely rare Sansui was the_ right call._


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





silent one said:


> To better answer the question "Why the WA5?" In the requisite Black, no
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Would you get the full-blown package? The extras do add up but it is easier to get them all done the first time than send it back for more later.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Would you get the full-blown package? The extras do add up but it is easier to get them all done the first time than send it back for more later.


 
   
  No. If it were to be my sole amp, I would. Though, teflon tube sockets are a must! I had to sell-off some audio goodies including headphones. That price difference for the upgrades will be applied toward putting the band back together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




so to speak. 
   
  However, I'd splurge for more refined glass. Miss Sophia Royal, where
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




U @ baby?! 
   
  As previously mentioned, gotta a few speaker amps on the short list that may threaten once again this purchase. But these options are dizzying, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




as I have no speakers. I've been admiring your "Zu" option from afar - you seem to have found low powered bliss. At a very reasonable cost, too!
   
  Shopping for audio is a lot like Chess - if this, then that... fun and stimulating. When I finally commit at summer's end, I'll be happy one way or another. Should be no regret over a road not traveled. I'm anxious to get back to my listening sessions, whatever my gear. In the words of the immortal Ray Charles, _"I'm going to make it do what it do, baby!"_


----------



## rosgr63

I like your thinking SO.
   
  Any other contenders?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I like your thinking SO.
> 
> Any other contenders?


 
   
  Yes. But, I'm trying very hard not to think about them. Getting a vacuum tube speaker amp with no pre-amp or speakers. Or not have a way to hear them optimally with headphones. Would be like spending money getting _dressed to the nines_ with no place to go.
   
  Of course, speakers could be had eventually. But in the interim... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The WA5 gives me a chance to party the moment it hits
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the porch! 
   
   
  Three Contenders:
  1. Yamamoto A-09S
  2. McIntosh MC275
  3. Paper bag - Cat still inside...


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





daverich4 said:


> One of them must have been the all black one I bought here last winter. So mint it could have been sold as new. Been a happy, music listening dawg ever since.


 
   
  Yes that was one of them.


----------



## teknikk7

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just ordered th-900 from headroom, with 60$ next day shipping !


 
   
  Nice! Please post a review when you get a chance...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i will post impressions when i get them later today


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i will post impressions when i get them later today




I need to find the ignore button, you will make me order it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I need to find the ignore button, you will make me order it.




thats the plan 


just like how i wanna buy those balanced ps1000s on the fs right now. but nope, gotta save up for lcd-3. i should only be a few hundred off a used pair if i sold he-500 and lcd-2


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> thats the plan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  But i thought you were keeping the HE-500? I would buy either one if i had an amp for low impedance.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im still undecided but if fostex th 900 are amaZing then ill get lcd-3 and he-500 will go


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my TH-900!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just got my TH-900!


 





   
  pix...Pix...PIX!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

burning them in right now, the mids need to come out a bit more and the treble has to smoothen out, but they sound great already!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

another note. my WA2 is actually driving these quite well (with GEC 6AS7G). they're sensitive enough that they get loud enough before they clip. looks like i can't get them insanely loud, but enough to listen at a decent level with most tracks.


----------



## Silent One

On average, for me there is no better day to get new gear than on a Friday!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On average, for me there is no better day to get new gear than on a Friday!


 
   
  +1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

these are burning in fast, the treble is already non fatiguing and the mids came out slightly.
   
  i found that like the LCD-2, the best tube combo so far on WA6-SE is the mighty 596 and 6FD7 (6GL7 kinda bright with these), so good with TH-900.....


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> these are burning in fast


 
   
   
  Your brain, or the headphones?  
   
  Congrats btw, I heard Preproman's, and liked em.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> these are burning in fast, the treble is already non fatiguing and the mids came out slightly.
> 
> i found that like the LCD-2, the best tube combo so far on WA6-SE is the mighty 596 and 6FD7 (6GL7 kinda bright with these), so good with TH-900.....


 
  Give them about 50-75 hours. Simply amazing headphones that I finally don't feel that I have to sacrifice sound quality when listening to closed headphones.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Give them about 50-75 hours. Simply amazing headphones that *I finally don't feel that I have to sacrifice sound quality when listening to closed headphones.*


 
   
   
  yes!!!!
   
  also i'm putting my LCD-2 up for sale right now so i can buy LCD-3! i hope they sound ok out of WA6-SE


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!!!!
> 
> also i'm putting my LCD-2 up for sale right now so i can buy LCD-3! i hope they sound ok out of WA6-SE


 
  Congrats! The LCD-3s are my favourite headphones next to the SR009s. You should be all set!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Give them about 50-75 hours. Simply amazing headphones that I finally don't feel that I have to sacrifice sound quality when listening to closed headphones.


 
   





 That statement could very well have me up all night... either staring in to space, an empty wallet or both.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Congrats! The LCD-3s are my favourite headphones next to the SR009s. You should be all set!


 
   
  only thing missing will be a better DAC, which will come later this year...


----------



## aive

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> only thing missing will be a better DAC, which will come later this year...


 
  Have you started looking at DACs? I'm starting to research now, soooooo much jargon >< At the moment, easiest way to research is to lookup MacedonianHero's profile and google DACs he's had  I'm pretty much going to have a similar setup to him, LCD-3s, GS-X mk2 (soon hopefully!) and yeh, need a DAC after that...
   
  Woops didn't mean to derail this thread, carry on


----------



## Frank I

Put some nice 6F8G tungsol tubes in the WA5 today and very happy with the tube. Sounds as good or maybe even better than the Tungsol 6sn7 black glass  round plates.  Glad I picjed up the Quad. Made in 1942 for IS Army Signal Cprp so these tubes have some history to them as they were used in the Army radios during the war. great stuff.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah as far as dac's go. i'm looking at mytek, nad, and w4s right now. not sure which one i'm gonna get. also something new might pop up later this year.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!!!!
> 
> also i'm putting my LCD-2 up for sale right now so i can buy LCD-3! i hope they sound ok out of WA6-SE


 
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Congrats! The LCD-3s are my favourite headphones next to the SR009s. You should be all set!


 
   
  +1
   
  I LOVE my LCD3s with the WA6SE.


----------



## Silent One

Great stuff indeed, Frank!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> +1
> 
> I LOVE my LCD3s with the WA6SE.


 
   
  what tubes u use ,miss sophia or mighty 596?


----------



## Frank I

Dub Headroom is out of stock in the th900 see I told you they would run out


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what tubes u use ,miss sophia or mighty 596?


 
   
  Princess likes to plays well with the 6EM7s.
   
  596 likes works amazingly with STOCK 6DE7s (well not stock stock, got a few brands to rotate thru).
   
  Given a comparison sometimes I actually like the 6DE7s more then the 6EM7s....
   
  I've determined that my WA6-SE does NOT like 596+ 6EM7s; I get lots of loud CLICKS and POPs after about 45 minuets. My WA6-SE is a bit more vintage then most (Pre April 17, 2010).


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> Dub Headroom is out of stock in the th900 see I told you they would run out




Moon Audio has it at the same price now. I emailed Drew if he can reterminated my silver dragon to TH900.


----------



## jc9394

All right, you all evil Woosie I'm going to send my Silver Dragon to Drew on Monday.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> All right, you all evil Woosie I'm going to send my Silver Dragon to Drew on Monday.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mighty 596 on ebay right now!!!
   
  no more tubes for me atm (i have 3 spare already lol), so someone grab it quick!!!!
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tube-/161069841562?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258082bc9a


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!!!!
> 
> also i'm putting my LCD-2 up for sale right now so i can buy LCD-3! i hope they sound ok out of WA6-SE


 
  congrats on the th900. how much you selling the lcd2 for?


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> Congrats! The LCD-3s are my favourite headphones next to the SR009s. You should be all set!




MH, if you can get only one headphone between TH-900 or LCD3, which one will you get?


----------



## Silent One

Uh-oh! Someone is fixin' to pull the trigger...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> MH, if you can get only one headphone between TH-900 or LCD3, which one will you get?


 
  LCD-3. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That said, the TH900s are the best closed cans I've owned/heard yet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> congrats on the th900. how much you selling the lcd2 for?





theyre in the for sale section right now for 850 shipped. ill prob end up dropping the price in a few days if they dont sell


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> LCD-3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do you think my WA22 or beta22 (2x gain) will give it justices?


----------



## bfreedma

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes!!!!
> 
> also i'm putting my LCD-2 up for sale right now so i can buy LCD-3! i hope they sound ok out of WA6-SE


 
   
  I really like my LCD-3's with the WA6-SE (596/6EM7).  Given that we seem to have very similar opinions on gear, I think it's very likely you'll enjoy the combination.
   
  Congrats on the TH-900s, though my wallet sort of wishes you hadn't done that as I've been thinking about picking up a pair....


----------



## dminches

There is a WA22 for sale on audiogon.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dminches said:


> There is a WA22 for sale on audiogon.


 

 Can you send the link? i cant find it


----------



## Silent One

One moment please... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I saw the listing but it ended yesterday:
   
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/amplifiers-woo-audio-wa-22-headphone-amplifier-with-upgraded-tubes-2013-07-21-headphones-55127


----------



## dminches

You wrote the seller? My guess they didn't do the transaction on audiogon since it doesn't sy it is expired.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dminches said:


> You wrote the seller? My guess they didn't do the transaction on audiogon since it doesn't sy it is expired.


 
   
  No correspondence. Not even sure it's the listing you referred to. I'm only going by the date of listing (21 July - 20 August) and the listing's disappearance. I will stand corrected on either.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oooh i would so buy that, but hes asking way too much for it. (theres some nice tubes which make it a decent deal, but i got alot of tubes already)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oooh i would so buy that, but hes asking way too much for it. (theres some nice tubes which make it a decent deal, but i got alot of tubes already)


 
   
  But... that's an invitation for negotiation. Smack the seller upside their BIG head and politely explain why you should have it at your price.


----------



## Frank I

the seller has no feedback


----------



## Silent One

I'd leverage that into a better price.


----------



## Clayton SF

At that price point why go second-hand. Get a brand new one and call it a day.  In fact, you can call it your own.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Pretty interesting WA5 listed on eBay, if you missed out on the WA22:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141011931259?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Pretty interesting WA5 listed on eBay, if you missed out on the WA22:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141011931259?ssPageName=*STRK:MEWAX:IT*&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
   
  For me, right colour wrong version. Though, I did get a kick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




out of the link for the listing:
   
  STReaK ME WAX IT


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Pretty interesting WA5 listed on eBay, if you missed out on the WA22:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141011931259?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
   
  Way too expensive.  Tube upgrades generally don't add much value to a sale.  Better to sell the tubes off separate, and drop the price of the amp.  No word on how many hours those tubes have on them-- and they're not exactly top-flight WA-5 tubes.  PSVane 300B, National drivers, and it looks like Sophia Princess rectifiers-- though I thought the Sophia had a white base?  Anyway, an upgrade, but not by much.  
   
  Better to go back to the stock tubes and sell it at $2200ish.  I think that one will sit there for a while.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Way too expensive.  Tube upgrades generally don't add much value to a sale.  Better to sell the tubes off separate, and drop the price of the amp.  No word on how many hours those tubes have on them-- and they're not exactly top-flight WA-5 tubes.  PSVane 300B, National drivers, and it looks like Sophia Princess rectifiers-- though I thought the Sophia had a white base?  Anyway, an upgrade, but not by much.
> 
> Better to go back to the stock tubes and sell it at $2200ish.  I think that one will sit there for a while.


 
   





 You hit the nail-on-the-head... _Olympic style. _Further, the seller's description/listing felt rushed for a worthy piece of kit.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Way too expensive.  Tube upgrades generally don't add much value to a sale.  Better to sell the tubes off separate, and drop the price of the amp.  No word on how many hours those tubes have on them-- and they're not exactly top-flight WA-5 tubes.  PSVane 300B, National drivers, and it looks like Sophia Princess rectifiers-- though I thought the Sophia had a white base?  Anyway, an upgrade, but not by much.
> 
> Better to go back to the stock tubes and sell it at $2200ish.  I think that one will sit there for a while.


 
  The way I read the listing is that the amp has the upgraded caps in addition to the average tubes you've mentioned.  The cap upgrade is like $1200 from Jack these days, in which case the price would not be so bad.


----------



## Frank I

It looks like a WA5 LE that s adv on ebay not the WA5


----------



## GrindingThud

1959 triple mica 6n5p..... Works well in the WA3. Initial listen with no break in - signature is a bit sterile and dynamics are lively.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





frank i said:


> It looks like a WA5 LE that s adv on ebay not the WA5


 
  Yup. Since I'm in the market for a '5' I pointed out it the amp listed (LE) was the wrong version for me. By the way, how's the ride with your '5' coming along, as the clock turns?


----------



## Frank I

The WA5 is going well. its the best headphone and speaker amp for high efficiency speaker sI used and the tubes are fantastic. I am using the 6F8G tungsol in and they sound terrific. I am done buying any amplifiers anymore. i will always have review amps in the house but the WA5 is by far my favorite amplifier for headphones. it plays them all.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The WA5 is going well. its the best headphone and speaker amp for high efficiency speaker sI used and the tubes are fantastic. I am using the 6F8G tungsol in and they sound terrific. I am done buying any amplifiers anymore. i will always have review amps in the house but the WA5 is by far my favorite amplifier for headphones. it plays them all.


 
   
   
  would you name a few you had/have?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> would you name a few you had/have?


 
  Taboo MK 11
  Taboo Mk 111
  Violectric V200
  Decware CSP2
  Burson Soloist
  Asgard
  Meier Concerto
  Pioneer SX650
  Pioneer sx980
  Little Dot Mk1
   Audio GD NFB6
  senn hdvd800


----------



## anil

Hopefully this is the right thread to posting this question: does anyone know if the Woo Audio WEE energizer works with a Pass Labs XA100.5?  I already have a speaker set up (with the aforementioned amps) and am looking to get the Stax O2 Mk1 phones.  While I ponder my amp options, I wanted to get the Wee and use it with my pass amps which operate in Class A for the first few watts,
   
  Any thoughts on this?
   
  Thanks
  Anil


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 
   





 Transporting precious cargo... _without a seat belt? _


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Transporting precious cargo... _without a seat belt? _


 
   
  yes lol.
   
  also got my norse audio cable back today and my TS 7236 i ordered from jack!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yes lol.
> 
> also got my norse audio cable back today and my TS 7236 i ordered from jack!


 
  you got the mytek????


----------



## GrindingThud

This review says it won't work with Pass amps because the WEE ties the grounds together internally and will damage bridged amps: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/woo-audio-wee-electrostatic-headphone-energizer



anil said:


> Hopefully this is the right thread to posting this question: does anyone know if the Woo Audio WEE energizer works with a Pass Labs XA100.5?  I already have a speaker set up (with the aforementioned amps) and am looking to get the Stax O2 Mk1 phones.  While I ponder my amp options, I wanted to get the Wee and use it with my pass amps which operate in Class A for the first few watts,
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> ...


----------



## snapple10

Party at DG's !!!! Bring your own woo


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 
   
   
  Where is the WA22 package???


----------



## jc9394

I'm still undecided on LCD3 or TH-900, DG is keep loading her cars with toys.  How come I'm so indecisive?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

setting up the mytek right now.
   
  the lights on the front are so bright!!!
   
  and i need to get a longer usb cable...


----------



## anil

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> This review says it won't work with Pass amps because the WEE ties the grounds together internally and will damage bridged amps: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/woo-audio-wee-electrostatic-headphone-energizer


 
  Bummer, thanks for linking.  I read the review but somehow missed that part.


----------



## snapple10

okay waiting on pics once you are done setting up


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just finished setting up for now. i'm using stock cable and had to move my dac, waiting now for a 5 meter audioquest to arrive so i can move the dac back.
   
  wow it sounds so good!!! its super neutral and uncolored, and much more revealing than the DLIII, very spacious, and theres a ton more gain now too! the WA6-SE gets loud as hell, maybe the WA2 will be better now too!
   
  wow its like an entire veil was lifted from the music


----------



## snapple10

Sweet!!!


----------



## aive

dubstep girl said:


> just finished setting up for now. i'm using stock cable and had to move my dac, waiting now for a 5 meter audioquest to arrive so i can move the dac back.
> 
> wow it sounds so good!!! its super neutral and uncolored, and much more revealing than the DLIII, very spacious, and theres a ton more gain now too! the WA6-SE gets loud as hell, maybe the WA2 will be better now too!
> 
> wow its like an entire veil was lifted from the music




Holy moly you got a DAC already. What made you get the mytek??? What model # is it?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I'm still undecided on LCD3 or TH-900, DG is keep loading her cars with toys.  How come I'm so indecisive?


 
  Owned both for quite some time....I'd really go with the LCD-3s.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





aive said:


> Holy moly you got a DAC already. What made you get the mytek??? What model # is it?


 
   
  the stereo DSD pre version. serial is like 1400 something off the box


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow my LCD-2 have never sounded this good. they don't even sound dark, they're so clean sounding. the bass is kinda gone though, i guess its just neutral. they actually have soundstage now too, i can't wait till LCD-3!!


----------



## aive

dubstep girl said:


> the stereo DSD pre version. serial is like 1400 something off the box




What sold u on this DAC compared with the W4S?


----------



## Wapiti

Quote: 





aive said:


> Holy moly you got a DAC already. What made you get the mytek??? What model # is it?


 
  Mytek Stereo192-DSD.  It's Mytek's foray into consumer audio.
   
  They have made nice pro ADCs and DACs for years.  It's been fun watching audiophiles discover pro equipment.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





aive said:


> What sold u on this DAC compared with the W4S?


 
   
  every1 says its really good and one of the best dacs out right now.
   
  also newer than W4S


----------



## Magiv9

dubstep girl said:


> wow my LCD-2 have never sounded this good. they don't even sound dark, they're so clean sounding. the bass is kinda gone though, i guess its just neutral. they actually have soundstage now too, i can't wait till LCD-3!!



Heard of the abyss? 
Its alot more comfortable compared to the lcds and will probably be my next purchase after trying it out for a few minutes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





magiv9 said:


> Heard of the abyss?
> Its alot more comfortable compared to the lcds and will probably be my next purchase after trying it out for a few minutes.


 
  Have you seen the innerfidelity review? Far from glowing and the measurements were very disappointing for a $1000 headphone (let alone a $5.5k headphone).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i liked the HE-500s out of a $5000 amp more than the Abyss out of a Liquid Gold......


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i liked the HE-500s out of a $5000 amp more than the Abyss out of a Liquid Gold......


 
  They measure quite a bit better too. By JPS Labs logic, Fang should charge $6k for the HE-500s.


----------



## Magiv9

macedonianhero said:


> Have you seen the innerfidelity review? Far from glowing and the measurements were very disappointing for a $1000 headphone (let alone a $5.5k headphone).



Nope, never heard of the abyss at all tbh so I never had the time to look it up etc. 
It was on display so I tried it out for a few minutes and it sounded really good. 
Then i asked for the price and the sales guy said $6000 and I was like -_-

This was literally 1-2 hours ago lol

Wow, are the he500s that good? 
I've never tried any other planer magnetic headphones before other than short demos of the lcd2 and abyss. 
It sounds completely different to my current setup, it might be because they're using this huge ass solid-state/dac combo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





snapple10 said:


> Party at DG's !!!! Bring your own woo


----------



## reeltime

Not for nothing-- but the W4S DAC 2 just got a massive upgrade.  I haven't purchased it for mine yet, but there's a significant component upgrade, in addition to adding a DSD module.  Upgrades run from $495 to $1250, and the flagship W4S DAC 2 new runs $2500.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> also got my norse audio cable back today


 
   
  Can you post a pic in the Norse thread please DG?


----------



## Frank I

Has anyone used the Hytron 5U4G.They look like sylvan and similar to RCA 5U4G. I picked uptwo matched pairs for like 53.00 so hope they sound good.


----------



## atomicbob

grindingthud said:


> 1959 triple mica 6n5p..... Works well in the WA3. Initial listen with no break in - signature is a bit sterile and dynamics are lively.



How is the 6n5p sounding now?


----------



## GrindingThud

I'm still liking them. Very quiet non microphonic tube. The mids are a little recessed from what I'm used to, leading to what I'm calling the sterile signature. Bass is strong and deep. Brass and male vocals are a standout for the tube. They are a poor match with the GEC ( too dark) but a good match IMHO with the 7236. They are not special enough to pay more than the $9ea shipped they can be had for....but interesting to look at and a nice part of a growing soviet tube collection. 



atomicbob said:


> How is the 6n5p sounding now?


----------



## atomicbob

Managed to acquire a GEC A1834 curved brown base and am now listening with HD800 to Tiger Okoshi's Echos of a Note. So far it seems very well balanced spectrally with a great three dimensionality to the music.


----------



## jc9394

atomicbob said:


> Managed to acquire a GEC A1834 curved brown base and am now listening with HD800 to Tiger Okoshi's Echos of a Note. So far it seems very well balanced spectrally with a great three dimensionality to the music.[/quote
> 
> 
> The GEC have some crazy synergy with HD800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

+1

GEC has surprisingly good synergy with hd 800


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just found and bought a new batch of NOS 2399/5998 for a new group buy (10 to 20 tubes)! I'll post more info once available!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just found and bought a new batch of NOS 2399/5998 for a new group buy (10 to 20 tubes)! I'll post more info once available!


 
  will you be selling any??


----------



## Ultrainferno

Group buy for head-fi, so yes. Done it a couple of times before!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Group buy for head-fi, so yes. Done it a couple of times before!


 
  pics?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I do not have them yet. Waiting for confirmation on the numbers.
Dminches agreed again to do the US distribution, saves in shipping costs!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

count me in!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> count me in!


 
  you have enough spairs!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

only have 1 5998 pair as spare.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> only have 1 5998 pair as spare.


 
   





 Your first-line signature is mighty good there, DG!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Has anyone used the Hytron 5U4G.They look like sylvan and similar to RCA 5U4G. I picked uptwo matched pairs for like 53.00 so hope they sound good.


 
   
  Since nobody else has chimed in on this I used one in my WA22 rectifier comparison, don't know how useful it will be for you:
   



   
_Switching to a *CBS-Hytron* (Tung Sol?) *274B*, I must say that this tube is acquits itself very nicely. It shares the aggressive dynamics that I like so much about the Sophia and its overall sense of refinement and transparency comes very close as well. It’s nice and punchy in the low end, has an honest midrange, and plenty of depth overall. just the slightest sense of graininess up high if you are really looking for flaws, but it's definitely a keeper and a great backup for the Sophia Princess. If anybody can confirm if Tung Sol or someone else actually makes this tube please chime in._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Your first-line signature is mighty good there, DG!


 
   
  it just changed! AGAIN!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it just changed! AGAIN!


 
   





 My own signature was taken recently by some mysterious Actress/Singer from Hong Kong. But, what I can tell you is this: tonight I'm picking up my Sansui G-22000 from the shop. And buying a new amp/cans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




between tonight and Monday.
   
  Still haven't decided if the WA5 makes the "11th Hour" cut tonight!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My own signature was taken recently by some mysterious Actress/Singer from Hong Kong. But, what I can tell you is this: tonight I'm picking up my Sansui G-22000 from the shop. And buying a new amp/cans
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  ooooh please keep us updated!!!
   
  what are you looking at buying as far as headphones go? and if u don't get WA5?


----------



## magiccabbage

LCD3? Custom Glenn?


----------



## jc9394

damn, while i'm still undecided, DG got both...  nice to be young...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> damn, while i'm still undecided, DG got both...  nice to be young...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 
   
  you are evil...just like us...
   
  EDIT, I need to plan a trip to Chicago to visit my parent company (I mean DG and Skylab)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> you are evil...just like us...
> 
> EDIT, I need to plan a trip to Chicago to visit my parent company (I mean DG and Skylab)


 
   




   
  also i think i'm almost ready for WA22, just gotta decide to buy it one of these days.... been stocking up on tubes, mmmm..... still need some spares + a few ones i want.


----------



## jc9394

Should I bring my WA22 and leave it to you so I can get a WA5?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Should I bring my WA22 and leave it to you so I can get a WA5?


 
   
  maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and maybe even a metal base GZ34 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i have no interest in WA5 cause of pricy 300B, i wouldn't be tube rolling much, and i'd have to get doubles of all my rectifiers.


----------



## jc9394

I heard ya on spares and 300B is on a level that is not good for tube rolling.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I heard ya on spares and 300B is on a level that is not good for tube rolling.


 
  No need to tube roll the 300B just get a pair of EML and be done.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> No need to tube roll the 300B just get a pair of EML and be done.




What about EAT and royal princess??? EML is good but not the best, let's leave the WE out for this since it cost more than the amp.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> you are evil...just like us...
> 
> EDIT, I need to plan a trip to Chicago to visit my parent company (I mean DG and Skylab)


 




   
  And me, looking East to you as my brother.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> LCD3? Custom Glenn?


 
   
  A custom "Glenn amp" later this autumn. Though, I may have to mix Cat food & Tuna to do it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My "2014" looks promising!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What about EAT and royal princess??? EML is good but not the best, let's leave the WE out for this since it cost more than the amp.


 
  Why would you say they are not the best if you have not heard them all. I don't know whats best but EAT not even being produced regular and there were issues with those tubes . WE is insanely priced and Kron may be good  but I heard the EML 2A3 and Kron 2A3 and much preferred the EML. Royal Princess is made by Full music in China so not sure if they worth the asking price either but for me the EML are terrific tubes and I really have no interest in rolling the tubes because they sound so good. I dont get spastic with tube changes once I found a combo I lik, then they are what I stick with.  I had a 6K CAT preamp and a CJ Premier 11A and used the same brand tubes for Nine years and was very happy. The combo I am using now in the amp is excellent and see no other reason to stay on the rolling binge. I just buy the tubes I will be using  so i don't run out of them.
   
  For the price of  the Royal princess I can get two pairs of EML and have money left for more music or more Tungsol black glass tubes. besides without hearing every 300B who is to say what best and what one person thinks is the best may be another mans worst. It all so subjective with sound and audio.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ooooh please keep us updated!!!
> 
> what are you looking at buying as far as headphones go? and if u don't get WA5?


 
   





 On purchasing new cans, I'm not feeling too good. Normally, if one has cans/speakers first, can always tailor the amp requirements around them. In my case, I'm making the amp purchase first and that will influence what cans I follow up with.
   
  And if I spend too much on the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then NO new 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




cans. My short lists (subject to change over the weekend; not listed in order of preference):
   
  Amps -
   
  WooAudio WA5
  Yamamoto A-09S
  McIntosh MC-275
  Mystery amp (Cat still in bag)
   
   
  Cans -
   
  HiFiMan HE-6
  Foster TH-900
  Stax (Older model)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On purchasing new cans, I'm not feeling too good. Normally, if one has cans/speakers first, can always tailor the amp requirements around them. In my case, I'm making the amp purchase first and that will influence what cans I follow up with.
> 
> And if I spend too much on the amp
> 
> ...


 
   
  what about ZDSE/TH-900 combo, i know thats on my list for next year!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what about ZDSE/TH-900 combo, i know thats on my list for next year!


 
  what, how many amps you buying? WA22 this year and then ZDSE next year. I cant keep up with that. Artists are poor than particle accelerator specialists!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> On purchasing new cans, I'm not feeling too good. Normally, if one has cans/speakers first, can always tailor the amp requirements around them. In my case, I'm making the amp purchase first and that will influence what cans I follow up with.
> 
> And if I spend too much on the amp
> 
> ...


 
  HE 6! nice and it will be interesting to see which beast will power those if you go for them,. You going to the California audio show?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





frank i said:


> No need to tube roll the 300B just get a pair of EML and be done.


 

 I agree. Be done with the rolling of tubes and enjoy the music. With that philosophy in mind a pair of 300Bs are a solid investment. Then you can spend your money on rolling headphones. One way or another, a good balance is the sound of music whether you roll tubes or not.
   
  You can always search for the perfect spot in the park to lay your blanket down and have a great picnic. But until you've laid that blanket down and settled into having a great time in the park, you'll never eat.


----------



## magiccabbage

I'm listening to Patricia barber on the WA2/T1 for the first time. Her stuff sounds amazing to say the least. Her first album is mighty!


----------



## dminches

She has MANY great albums.  And many of them are in hi res.


----------



## Frank I

I use nardis on Cafe Blue to really test bass on gear. That album and Modern Cool her two best. i have them all except maybe one . I been using her music since 1997 for gear testing.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> And me, looking East to you as my brother.




Never forgets SO, LA has to be next year.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> HE 6! nice and it will be interesting to see which beast will power those if you go for them,. You going to the California audio show?


 
   
  Too busy to attend this year's show, maybe next year! I already have "Iron" that can power the HE-6 if I decide to skip the WA5. I have the G-22000 pushing 240 watts/channel and the SX-D7000 pushing 120 wpc at minimum.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Never forgets SO, LA has to be next year.


 
   




   
  If I get the broad shouldered Yammo, you'll have to stop by for a listen!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I get the broad shouldered Yammo, you'll have to stop by for a listen!


 
  How many watts is that amp. Looks like a speaker amp only


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> Why would you say they are not the best if you have not heard them all. I don't know whats best but EAT not even being produced regular and there were issues with those tubes . WE is insanely priced and Kron may be good  but I heard the EML 2A3 and Kron 2A3 and much preferred the EML. Royal Princess is made by Full music in China so not sure if they worth the asking price either but for me the EML are terrific tubes and I really have no interest in rolling the tubes because they sound so good. I dont get spastic with tube changes once I found a combo I lik, then they are what I stick with.  I had a 6K CAT preamp and a CJ Premier 11A and used the same brand tubes for Nine years and was very happy. The combo I am using now in the amp is excellent and see no other reason to stay on the rolling binge. I just buy the tubes I will be using  so i don't run out of them.
> 
> For the price of  the Royal princess I can get two pairs of EML and have money left for more music or more Tungsol black glass tubes. besides without hearing every 300B who is to say what best and what one person thinks is the best may be another mans worst. It all so subjective with sound and audio.




What makes you think I have not heard them all? WE is the one I did not heard as I stated it cost more than WA5.

I may not owed WA5/LE but I can tell you I have WA5 in my possession longer than you and have tubes to roll too.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> If I get the broad shouldered Yammo, you'll have to stop by for a listen!




I will swing by even if you don't have the yammo.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what about ZDSE/TH-900 combo, i know thats on my list for next year!


 
   





 But... I'm trying to make a "Short list" well, shorter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're in expansion mode!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I use nardis on Cafe Blue to really test bass on gear. That album and Modern Cool her two best. i have them all except maybe one . I been using her music since 1997 for gear testing.


 
  Some of the christian Mcbride albums also sound brilliant on the WA2. Now there is a bass tester! Night train off the first album, have you heard it. 
   
  Silent one that amp is gorgeous! I do think the WA5 looks slightly nicer though but then again seeing it up close is a different story altogether


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> :blink:  But... I'm trying to make a "Short list" well, shorter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What about GS-X mk2??? I heard it is excellent pairing with LCD-3...


----------



## Frank I

Well then you dont need to buy any more tubes do you. Which one do you like /. You stated the royal princess do you have either and do you like them i for one am not interested in  spending mor money on 300B tubes and will stick with the EML . Like I said earlier what may osund good to one person may be completely different to another but the EML tubes do sure sound good to me  So how many do you have and what are your favorites?.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> But... I'm trying to make a "Short list" well, shorter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  yes lol.
   
  i have ZDSE, WA22, a Grado (RS1i or PS1000), and maybe HE-6 + amp on my list. i must complete my headphone/amp wishlist by the end of next year. thats the goal.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What about GS-X mk2??? I heard it is excellent pairing with LCD-3...


 
  It certainly is!


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> I use nardis on Cafe Blue to really test bass on gear. That album and Modern Cool her two best. i have them all except maybe one . I been using her music since 1997 for gear testing.




Company of Modern Cool is excellent to test bass.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> It certainly is!


 
  In swoops the owl!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Company of Modern Cool is excellent to test bass.


 
  I like Companion too. I've got them all on HDCD and love them!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> In swoops the owl!


 
   
  lol yes! he did, pretty fast as soon as GSX MK2 was mentioned


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Company of Modern Cool is excellent to test bass.


 
  Just put that track on now. you are right the bass is serious. Have you heard any of the christian mcbride stuff?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I like Companion too. I've got them all on HDCD and love them!


 
  Companion has some great bass tracks as well.


----------



## Godthul

Would the WA6 work well with modded Fostex t50rps?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oooh ill have to check some of these out


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I like Companion too. I've got them all on HDCD and love them!


 
  you also own or used to own the dark star?


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> Well then you dont need to buy any more tubes do you. Which one do you like /. You stated the royal princess do you have either and do you like them i for one am not interested in  spending mor money on 300B tubes and will stick with the EML . Like I said earlier what may osund good to one person may be completely different to another but the EML tubes do sure sound good to me  So how many do you have and what are your favorites?.




 I don't own WA5 or any 300B tubes, they belongs to my friend up north. He ship them to me to avoid customs. I usually goes there twice a year.

He ordered WA5 earlier this year and EML, EAT, and Royal Princess to roll and asked me to burn it and verify they works before return period is up. Out of three, I like EAT the best, it has more depth and wider soundstage than EML. Royal Princess maybe made in China but it s still very good tubes, i don't think it is better than EML, I say it is more of different sound signature. Kind of like a different amp but a very close cousin.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> you also own or used to own the dark star?


 
  LoL, oh goodness no!


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> LoL, oh goodness no!




Another person don't like red nail,polish???


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> Just put that track on now. you are right the bass is serious. Have you heard any of the christian mcbride stuff?




No, any recommendation?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Another person don't like red nail,polish???


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> LoL, oh goodness no!


 
  don't know why i had that in my head. Thought you said that you had it before and loved it with HD800 but it must of  been somebody else. Any Woo's for you in the future or are you amp buying days over?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> don't know why i had that in my head. Thought you said that you had it before and loved it with HD800 but it must of  been somebody else. Any Woo's for you in the future or are you amp buying days over?


 
  The WA22 then? I really enjoyed the pairing with the HD800s.


----------



## Frank I

Chris at Parts Connexion likes the Psvane 300B that are WE clones and are 1K pair. I could bought the ones that Radio was selling on the EAT tubes but seen there were some production issues with them and they were not being produced for a while and many dealers don't carry them any more so i figured I would go EML and been very happy with them.  
   
  I even like the Shuguang 300-98 that came with the amp but been using the EML since the third day.  For me I like what I am hearing from the EML and spend more time now just listening to the music. I am pretty set with the  Tungsol 6sn7 and 6F8G I have and using the RCA 5U4G rectifier s for now,


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No, any recommendation?


 
  Yea "getting to it" which is the first album is brilliant. Great playing all over it. "Splanky" and especially "Night train"  are great double bass tracks, talk about dept! You can hear the notes all the way down the sound hole in that track. 
   
  He has a big band album as well called "the good feeling" its top notch.


----------



## jc9394

If you like what you are listening, keep listening and ignore us (evils) and you will be much happier. I usually look for those 1%.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If I get the broad shouldered Yammo, you'll have to stop by for a listen!


 
  How much are they asking for this amp?  It sure is a beauty!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The WA22 then? I really enjoyed the pairing with the HD800s.


 
   
  think the WA22 could pair good with all my headphones?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> think the WA22 could pair good with all my headphones?


 
  I personally think so, yes.  You might need the slightly higher power offered with 5998/7236 tubes, but I have found there to be no problem with my WA22 and LCDs or HE-500s.  Granted I don't own the LCD 3s, so I don't know if there is a huge difference there.  Regardless, I think you'd be fine with a WA22 with all of the headphones in your stable.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i'm worried it might have too much gain for more sensitive headphones or too little for the HE-500 and Audeze's. im also gonna get a grado again (PS1000 if i can afford, or else just a RS1i)


----------



## RAZRr1275

Okay so this is kind of a difficult question but assuming I'm looking for the most warm and tubey sounding woo amp that can pair with both high and low impedance headphones, with a budget of about 1K what's the best woo amp for me?


----------



## jc9394

They are fine even with my JH13, yep, I'm crazy and use WA22 to drive the JH13 all the time.  You have to choose the lower output tubes to use it.  The only headphone WA22 does not drive well is the HE6.  With my PWD balanced in to WA22, it can handle all the headphones I throw at it. (well, except HE6)


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





razrr1275 said:


> Okay so this is kind of a difficult question but assuming I'm looking for the most warm and tubey sounding woo amp that can pair with both high and low impedance headphones, with a budget of about 1K what's the best woo amp for me?


 
   
  I will have to say, it does not exist in Woo line for 1K.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





razrr1275 said:


> Okay so this is kind of a difficult question but assuming I'm looking for the most warm and tubey sounding woo amp that can pair with both high and low impedance headphones, with a budget of about 1K what's the best woo amp for me?


 
   
  maybe a WA7? the WA6-SE isn't very warm or tubey, its the most SS Sounding. it can be tubey with good tubes, but still more dynamic and clean than lush and warm.


----------



## RAZRr1275

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will have to say, it does not exist in Woo line for 1K.


 
  I'm guessing the amp that fits would be the WA22?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They are fine even with my JH13, yep, I'm crazy and use WA22 to drive the JH13 all the time.  You have to choose the lower output tubes to use it.  The only headphone WA22 does not drive well is the HE6.  With my PWD balanced in to WA22, it can handle all the headphones I throw at it. (well, except HE6)


 
   
  so GEC for all my low impedance sensitive headphones and TS/Syl 7236/5998 for the planars?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> think the WA22 could pair good with all my headphones?


 
  Maybe not so much with your LCD-3s. A bit too warm to pair with them. The WA5 / WA5LE however.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





razrr1275 said:


> I'm guessing the amp that fits would be the WA22?


 
   
  yes but it is not very tubey.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Maybe not so much with your LCD-3s. A bit too warm to pair with them. The WA5 / WA5LE however.


 
   




   
   



jc9394 said:


> yes but it is not very tubey.


 

   
   
  so is WA22 tubey or not


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so GEC for all my low impedance sensitive headphones and TS/Syl 7236/5998 for the planars?


 
  yep, i do use the 7236/5998 with high impedance phones too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> yep, i do use the 7236/5998 with high impedance phones too.


 
  Those are the only ones I'd use for orthos.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> so is WA22 tubey or not


 
   
  it is warm but not tubey but definitely more tubey than WA6SE.  the tubes combo has a lot to do with it, you have to find the combo you like.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> it is warm but not tubey but definitely more tubey than WA6SE.  the tubes combo has a lot to do with it, you have to find the combo you like.


 
   
  i guess i just have to hear it, since i really like the WA2's warm sound. hopefully the WA22 can come close with the right tubes.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Those are the only ones I'd use for orthos.


 
   6080/6AS7G does not have enough power to drive the orthos.  With my DAC, I think TS 7236, NU 6F8G, and Mullard metal GZ34 drives LCD2/3 very well, it is not too warm.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i guess i just have to hear it, since i really like the WA2's warm sound. hopefully the WA22 can come close with the right tubes.


 
  I do not have the WA2 long enough to give you a good comparison.  I think MH is the best person to ask but he never tried GEC before he sold his Woos.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do not have the WA2 long enough to give you a good comparison.  I think MH is the best person to ask but he never tried GEC before he sold his Woos.


 
   
  his review also didn't have many tubes yet for WA22, at least not the best.
   
  theres also ardilla who has both, but he says WA22 is more harsh and aggressive, which worries me.
   
  and then there was a thread where some1 (seamaster i think) said WA22 sucked with T1 and was harsh.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> 6080/6AS7G does not have enough power to drive the orthos.  With my DAC, I think TS 7236, NU 6F8G, and Mullard metal GZ34 drives LCD2/3 very well, it is not too warm.


 
  Yep, the TS7236 were my "goto" power tubes with the LCD-3s. I really liked the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate rectifier tube and the 5692 Sylvanias (brown base).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What about GS-X mk2??? I heard it is excellent pairing with LCD-3...


 
   





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But U just added 2 more items to the list.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  With the favorable exchange rate, approximately $7,900+...


----------



## solserenade

grokit said:


> Since nobody else has chimed in on this I used one in my WA22 rectifier comparison, don't know how useful it will be for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What is 'graininess' ? Never heard that term - Thanks!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Those Woo's do look good in the dark, don't they


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You want McBride and bass, try this:
   
   http://www.amazon.com/Super-Bass-2-Ray-Brown/dp/B00005NSWI/ref=sr_1_11?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1374934353&sr=1-11&keywords=christian+mcbride
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Superbass-Ray-Brown/dp/B000003D5F/ref=sr_1_21?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1374934472&sr=1-21&keywords=christian+mcbride


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Those Woo's do look good in the dark, don't they


 

 Come to papa!


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Those Woo's do look good in the dark, don't they


 
  What a beautiful shot U!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Come to papa!


 
   
  It's coming home soon!
   
  Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> What a beautiful shot U!


 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what rectifiers does it have in that pic?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With the favorable exchange rate, approximately $7,900+...


 
  Ooh.  Best start saving your pennies!  It seems like the amp is speaker only, is that right?


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> what rectifiers does it have in that pic?




Mullard EZ81. It shows if you look at the large pic


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Ooh.  Best start saving your pennies!  It seems like the amp is speaker only, is that right?


 
  Yes, it's a speaker amp. But the Dealer (USA Importer) has already set aside 4 pieces high quality resistors and jack, should I make the purchase. 
   
  Speaking of "saving," what do you think I been stuffing inside
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 those tea tins the last 90 days? It looks like the WA5, A-09S & MC275 will have to wait. Again.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna get another Woo one of these days. In the last hour, I decided to go with the "Mystery amp."
   




   
  The audio consultant is in the middle of moving his showroom from San Francisco to Hollywood; almost done. So, I'm waiting for him to check stock in the next 48 hours.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yes, it's a speaker amp. But the Dealer (USA Importer) has already set aside 4 pieces high quality resistors and jack, should I make the purchase.
> 
> Speaking of "saving," what do you think I been stuffing inside
> 
> ...


 
  Mystery amp?  You really should let that poor cat out of the bag...


----------



## Silent One

Audio and Animal Rights Activists 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  And trust me, this has got to be the longest shortest wait ever! I'm completely in the dark - do I get it or don't get it... no updates
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from seller. I'll know something in about a day one way or another. If he's sold out, I may even sit out and don't purchase anything and enjoy what I've already got. Or go over to jc9394's house!


----------



## aive

macedonianhero said:


> I like Companion too. I've got them all on HDCD and love them!




Hey MH where did you get those HDCDs from? Trying to find audiophile quality recordings of hers but not having much luck.


----------



## MacedonianHero

aive said:


> Hey MH where did you get those HDCDs from? Trying to find audiophile quality recordings of hers but not having much luck.




Amazon.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Audio and Animal Rights Activists
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Anytime buddy, make sure byob. Crap you don't drink, guess you can byot.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anytime buddy, make sure byob. Crap you don't drink, guess you can byot.


 
   
  I will delight in French bubbly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




now and then.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Mystery amp?  You really should let that poor cat out of the bag...


 
   




   
  Update: The cat is _finally_ out the bag. Sunday morning, I ordered the following pieces of kit from 'pitch perfect audio'...
   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
  Shindo Laboratory 
   
  A pair of F2a Sinhonia monoblocks
  Aurieges-MM pre-amp


----------



## jc9394

I think I should make a trip to LA very very soon.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Update: The cat is _finally_ out the bag. Sunday morning, I ordered the following pieces of kit from 'pitch perfect audio'...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  were these 17,000 dollars?


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> were these 17,000 dollars?




In this hobby, try not to ask price. The less you know, the better you will be.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> In this hobby, try not to ask price. The less you know, the better you will be.


 
  +1


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> > Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> were these 17,000 dollars?


 
   





 If Your "PM" isn't functioning properly, try rebooting your PC...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> If Your "PM" isn't functioning properly, try rebooting your PC...




What if he is using a Mac? Maybe iPad like me?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What if he is using a Mac? Maybe iPad like me?


 
   
  I have both. Macs are still _Personal Computers. _Seems, users and marketers alike accepted the nickname to distinguish the products over the years - Apple|Microsoft.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I have both. Macs are still _Personal Computers. _Seems, users and marketers alike accepted the nickname to distinguish the products over the years - Apple|Microsoft.




True, die hard Apple fans like me does not like to refer MBP as PC. :rolleyes:


----------



## Clayton SF

Neither does Apple. "Hi. I'm a Mac." "And I'm a PC."


----------



## Silent One




----------



## aive

macedonianhero said:


> Amazon.




Hehe thanks


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If Your "PM" isn't functioning properly, try rebooting your PC...


 
  Ha ha. It is working properly smart ass! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you are right, these questions should be dealt by use of PM, I mean we wouldn't want anyone having nightmares. 
   
  When do you expect to have the gear? Is the WA5 gone from you radar now?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> When do you expect to have the gear? Is the WA5 gone from you radar now?


 
   
  Will leave the kit at the showroom for now - I would only end up placing it in storage. I'm still tracking the WA5 by radar... and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sonar. I'll just set the empty tea tins out again and start saving anew. Could be a springtime decision (2014).


----------



## jc9394

more ramen?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> more ramen?


 
   





 You know how we audio addicts do! Check stock of what's in the cupboard. Then check said calendar hanging off the cupboard. And then make a projection.._. "Hmmm, I could this one for 8 months or those 2 for 3 months."_


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Update: The cat is _finally_ out the bag. Sunday morning, I ordered the following pieces of kit from 'pitch perfect audio'...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ooooooh...  Very nice, indeed!  I'd love to listen to these one of these days.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *GalaxyGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Ooooooh...  Very nice, indeed!  I'd love to listen to these one of these days.


 
   
  Thanks, kindly. I won't be able to afford 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




speakers for some time. Currently, reviewing headphone options. Unless I hold a mini-meet where everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




brings their own cans for me to try, the Cable Co. Lending Library might be a good bet.


----------



## rosgr63

Will tea be available?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Will tea be available?


 
   
  Good morning~
   
  Tea will be available throughout the reception. Then I'll pour French bubbly near the end, since alcohol would obscure critical listening..._ for me_. My guests 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





could do whatever it is they think they should be doing!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, kindly. I won't be able to afford
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So you don't have speakers in storage already? The mono blocks are strictly for headphone use??


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> So you don't have speakers in storage already? The mono blocks are strictly for headphone use??


 
   
  Headphones for now... then will use speakers when possible. I know the Sansui is beginning to look restless.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Headphones for now... then will use speakers when possible. I know the Sansui is beginning to look restless.


 
  I cant wait to see what way you will arrange all that gear, when it comes out of storage.


----------



## jc9394

SO can always store them in my place.


----------



## Silent One

I've only a few pieces of my former rig left - sold off to meet expenses.


----------



## jc9394

Woah, that door just slam in my face. :mad: j/k


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I've only a few pieces of my former rig left - sold off to meet expenses.


 
  ****. i am hearing that a lot these days. Its not good.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Woah, that door just slam in my face.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 Never! I still have enough components to make a cake... and serve you up.


----------



## Silent One

New from New York's top talk radio station WWOO-fm
   
  Here's what I know to date about the WA234 Mono:
   
  - If I so chose, Jack would deliver one to me in custom all black cladding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  - Pre-orders were taken but I haven't seen any in the wild... or inside the thread
  - The statement amp's R&D could be providing WooAudio with production insight, efficiency and cost reduction for a revamped line in 2014.
   
  I'd be open to getting a Pre-Owned Black WA5 next year from a Woozie willing to upgrade.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> New from New York's top talk radio station WWOO-fm
> 
> Here's what I know to date about the WA234 Mono:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  what would someone with a WA5 upgrade to?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> New from New York's top talk radio station WWOO-fm
> 
> Here's what I know to date about the WA234 Mono:
> 
> ...


 
  Is the asking price still 15,000?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> New from New York's top talk radio station WWOO-fm
> 
> Here's what I know to date about the WA234 Mono:
> 
> ...




Meetoo, I want a fully upgrade WA5...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> what would someone with a WA5 upgrade to?


 

 Only one place left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Just keeping things _on topic_


----------



## Silent One

> - The statement amp's R&D could be providing WooAudio with production insight, efficiency and cost reduction for a revamped line in 2014.


 
   
  Allow me to expand my thought. By developing the WA234 Mono, their achievements could trickle down to the rest of the line. Take the WA5 for example. I was asked what would a WA5 owner upgrade to?
   
  Well, it need not be the flagship 234. Rather, a newly revamped WA5 based on said achievements. So maybe the owner goes for the same model but new and improved.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Meetoo, I want a fully upgrade WA5...


 
   






 Four of us could always do a Time-share based on seasons. And then have a buyout @ month 12-24-36. Buyer to be determined - among us four or to an outside buyer.


----------



## flaming_june

Ahahahaha
   
  Man the shipping alone...


----------



## Silent One

Could be strategically zoned with the four members living along the most efficient route between NY MA & CA.


----------



## jc9394

Humm, looks like from the factory to MA is overnight shipping even it is ground. I take it first...


----------



## Silent One

That's the plan, jc9394... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




we'd (the four investors) all be winners.


----------



## jc9394

just checked ups, it will be about $100 shipping fee from MA to CA.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> just checked ups, it will be about $100 shipping fee from MA to CA.


 
   
   
  think how much would that be from hk(hong kong) to ma.  but i ain't going to do no grade.  a basic wa5 is good enough to me


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Allow me to expand my thought. By developing the WA234 Mono, their achievements could trickle down to the rest of the line. Take the WA5 for example. I was asked what would a WA5 owner upgrade to?
> 
> Well, it need not be the flagship 234. Rather, a newly revamped WA5 based on said achievements. So maybe the owner goes for the same model but new and improved.


 
  I listened to the WA234 at the RMAF and to be honest I did not hear $10,000 difference to my fully loaded WA5-LE. The price of the WA234 is 50% higher of what I paid for my McIntosh MC601 (600 watts) monoblocks and $1,000 more that that pair plus my McIntosh C2300 tube pre-amp. I don't see how one can justify them. I might be insane but now that insane 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I listened to the WA234 at the RMAF and to be honest I did not hear $10,000 difference to my fully loaded WA5-LE. The price of the WA234 is 50% higher of what I paid for my McIntosh MC601 (600 watts) monoblocks and $1,000 more that that pair plus my McIntosh C2300 tube pre-amp. I don't see how one can justify them. I might be insane but now that insane
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  did you listen to your balanced t1 with the wa234? 
   
  i remember thinking getting sr71(400 dollars portable amp) was crazy.  now with wa5.  never say never but, my case, i rather spend the money on the source and cables and other stuff.  10000 is just a bit too much.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> did you listen to your balanced t1 with the wa234?
> 
> i remember thinking getting sr71(400 dollars portable amp) was crazy.  now with wa5.  never say never but, my case, i rather spend the money on the source and cables and other stuff.  10000 is just a bit too much.


 
  No. It was a pair of balanced HD800 that Jack had there which I am familiar with since I own a pair too.
  The WA234 is not $10,000, is $15,000
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If i remember correctly $10,000 was the original price almost 2 years ago.
   
  I love Woo Audio and Jack is great but less than $15,000 if you want to stay within headphones (not comparing to speakers system) one can get a top of the line electrostatic amp (WES, A-10, BHSE, Electra) with a pair of SR-009 and most likely you will be better off IMO.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

doesnt wa234 also work for speakers?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> doesnt wa234 also work for speakers?


 
  It does indeed


----------



## magiccabbage

but i wonder can it handle a larger variety of speaker unlike the WA5?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no same 8 watts 300b and less for 2a3 or 45


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> doesnt wa234 also work for speakers?


 
  so you saving the money HEH


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> so you saving the money HEH


 
  it wouldn't surprise me, she is a big spender these days!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> it wouldn't surprise me, she is a big spender these days!


 
   
  lol nah i think im done for a bit after re-buying RS1i or getting PS1000. ZDSE planned for next year as well as HE-6 + some amp.
   
  of course i'll keep buying tubes and small stuff like that throughout the year though...


----------



## atomicbob

At a local meet I experienced the ZDSE with a pair of TH-900. That was a spectacular combination. I wanted to spend more time but given the number of meet participants that also wanted a turn, I limited at approx 15 ~ 20 minutes. I had brought my WA7 + T90 combo. I wonder how the HE-500 would sound with it? Maybe I will get the chance to find out.


----------



## jc9394

What happen? Quiet as a mouse here...


----------



## Frank I

JC we been waiting for you dude to make some
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 noise


----------



## jc9394

Received my flavorite cantopop album, special 180g Japan press.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Received my flavorite cantopop album, special 180g Japan press.


 
  what is the name of the artist?


----------



## jc9394

Jacky Cheung. "Snow, Wolf, Lake", it is a huge boardway type of show. Live recording of the last play in HK. It is limited to 1,000 copies.


----------



## Silent One

I'll have to check it out!


----------



## jc9394

Just noticed, Silent One has 11,000+ posts. Guest you need to change it to "Not So Silent One".


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just noticed, Silent One has 11,000+ posts. Guest you need to change it to "Not So Silent One".


 
   
  +1


----------



## jc9394

I think I should be the Silent One, joined in 2006 with less than 5000 posts.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think I should be the Silent One, joined in 2006 with less than 5000 posts.


 
   
  jc9394 the real Silent One


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> jc9394 the real Silent One


 
   




   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!









 We be brothers already...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  2 silent one's?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just noticed, Silent One has 11,000+ posts. Guest you need to change it to "Not So Silent One".


 
   
  Right now it's my audio rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that's silent. I have some Silver interconnects coming from Tokyo - transit time 30 days. Then I'm gonna try my new monoblocks for the first time, likely Labor Day weekend... very excited! I'm buying the HE-6 tomorrow (I think) and the Shindo blocks put out 40 wpc @ 16 Ohms. So, the HiFiMan's should see appx 14 watts @ 50 Ohms.
   
  And the next night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plug the cans into the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




G-22000. Last week, I sat my empty tea tins out again for the WA5. Gotta few dollars inside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




so far.


----------



## jc9394

No, silent one and not so silent one brothers.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Right now it's my audio rig
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  HE-6!!! (my next headphone on my list as well, waiting till next year for this one though)


----------



## jc9394

I need a tea can for my other hobby. Need a nice marko lens for the Woo glamour shots.


----------



## Silent One

One of the brilliant things I find about using my tea tins for saving is that it helps me stay calm; patient. And serves as a reminder to delight in more tea.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> HE-6!!! (my next headphone on my list as well, waiting till next year for this one though)


 
  you mean LCD3!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One of the brilliant things I find about using my tea tins for saving is that it helps me stay calm; patient. And serves as a reminder to delight in more tea.


 
  ha ha......... i use my paint jars to save. who needs bankers these days anyway?
   
  WE NEED PICS OF THAT RIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
   
  those mono blocks look sweet. Has anyone ever even heard them threw the HE-6 before?? That vintage receiver plus mono blocks plus HE-6 = one hell of a unique rig! 
   
  I smell impressions, many impressions indeed. you will have to shrug your so called "silent" reputation and feed the hungry sharks!


----------



## Silent One

Posts? PMs?! I'll be so laid back, I might have to contact Head-Fi
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for Username/Password info.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Posts? PMs?! I'll be so laid back, I might have to contact Head-Fi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah now there be none of that! 
   
  there will be a new thread - ANGRY HEADFIERS UNITE - END THE SILENCE!!


----------



## Silent One

I really do hope to get a pre-owned WA5, though... and _soon._


----------



## Silent One

edit


----------



## Sko0byDoo

WA22 price drop...
   
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/amplifiers-woo-audio-wa-22-headphone-amplifier-with-upgraded-tubes-2013-07-21-headphones-55127-vadnais-heights-mn


----------



## Frank I

I am surprised DG is not offering on the amp. I still do not like no feedback


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> WA22 price drop...
> 
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/amplifiers-woo-audio-wa-22-headphone-amplifier-with-upgraded-tubes-2013-07-21-headphones-55127-vadnais-heights-mn


 
  That is a great deal. If it was a few months back I would seriously consider it. I would love to hear the WA22 and the DNA stratus side by side for comparisons.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> That is a great deal. If it was a few months back I would seriously consider it. I would love to hear the WA22 and the DNA stratus side by side for comparisons.





+1 

not offering cause im still not sure on whether ill buy it or not. also i would have to sell both my woos to get it. i still havent heard wa22 either, and like u, i am considering stratus still. i probably would of bought one by now if the wait wasnt like a few months


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> not offering cause im still not sure on whether ill buy it or not. also i would have to sell both my woos to get it. i still havent heard wa22 either, and like u, i am considering stratus still. i probably would of bought one by now if the wait wasnt like a few months


 
   
  Looks like he's willing to negotiate.  Ask for $1500 to try out, it will be a heck of a deal.  It's like buying another TH900s


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no money for any amps. thats why id have to sell my woos and thats why i havent picked up any of the good amps that have popped up in the for sale recently


----------



## 13713

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> no money for any amps. thats why id have to sell my woos and thats why i havent picked up any of the good amps that have popped up in the for sale recently


 
  Sell your Woo's? That's just crazy talk.
   
  Speaking of Woo's, Anyone progress from the WA22 to a WA5 and if so did you go for the WA5-LE or spring for the WA5. I almost entirely listen to headphones now but the price difference between the two is not that bad if I were to decide to go with the slightly more expensive WA5.


----------



## magiccabbage

Its funny if i upgraded from my WA2 to another Woo amp like WA22 or WA5 i would sell the WA2 but if i went for the Stratus i would keep the WA2. I think the idea of having a WA2 sitting beside a DNA stratus might be a nice complement, but a WA2 beside a WA22 not so much, who knows maybe I am talking nonsense.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Its funny if i upgraded from my WA2 to another Woo amp like WA22 or WA5 i would sell the WA2 but if i went for the Stratus i would keep the WA2. I think the idea of having a WA2 sitting beside a DNA stratus might be a nice complement, but a WA2 beside a WA22 not so much, who knows maybe I am talking nonsense.


 
   
  WA2 is OTL, you should keep it to play high impedance cans.  I want to eventually get OTL to complement my OPT amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> WA2 is OTL, you should keep it to play high impedance cans.  I want to eventually get OTL to complement my OPT amps.


 
  Good point. I have had the T1's with the WA2 now for about a month. I reached the 100 hour mark last week and stopped counting after that. Man in the last few days they have gotten even nicer. I plugged in the HD650's there bout an hour ago but quickly changed back. The differences at the start were not so obvious, but now they really are. The 650's flaws really stick out a mile now when i compare them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Its funny if i upgraded from my WA2 to another Woo amp like WA22 or WA5 i would sell the WA2 but if i went for the Stratus i would keep the WA2. I think the idea of having a WA2 sitting beside a DNA stratus might be a nice complement, but a WA2 beside a WA22 not so much, who knows maybe I am talking nonsense.


 
   
  ardilla still has both woos. as well as nic rhodes. its not nonsense. i really don't want to sell my WA2, regardless of what i buy for my other headphones, the T1 are really something with this setup, and its still my favorite (though i think i might start to like the LCD-3 more cause its just such a good sounding headphone).
   
   


magiccabbage said:


> Its funny if i upgraded from my WA2 to another Woo amp like WA22 or WA5 i would sell the WA2 but if i went for the Stratus i would keep the WA2. I think the idea of having a WA2 sitting beside a DNA stratus might be a nice complement, but a WA2 beside a WA22 not so much, who knows maybe I am talking nonsense.


 

   
   
  if i bought either, id keep WA2 unless the other amps are good enough to beat it in every way possible.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ardilla still has both woos. as well as nic rhodes. its not nonsense. i really don't want to sell my WA2, regardless of what i buy for my other headphones, the T1 are really something with this setup, and its still my favorite (though i think i might start to like the LCD-3 more cause its just such a good sounding headphone).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  if you like wa2/t1 combo so much, have you thought about getting to ss amp to complement instead?  t1 sound best with tube, no doubt but a ss amp to change the things a little is always fun.  yea wa5 is great and everything but wa2 is already very very good.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> if you like wa2/t1 combo so much, have you thought about getting to ss amp to complement instead?  t1 sound best with tube, no doubt but a ss amp to change the things a little is always fun.  yea wa5 is great and everything but wa2 is already very very good.


 
   
  i don't like them as much out of SS, a little too crisp and lacks warmth. though it does still sound pretty good especially with rock music
   
  the built in amp in my mytek 192 is very good and drives them just fine, about as good as my WA6-SE (which is very SS sounding with the right tubes).


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i don't like them as much out of SS, a little too crisp and lacks warmth. though it does still sound pretty good especially with rock music
> 
> the built in amp in my mytek 192 is very good and drives them just fine, about as good as my WA6-SE (which is very SS sounding with the right tubes).


 
   
   
  a smooth and musical ss amp maybe?  i have a wa5 but i still use my other ss amp sometimes.


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ardilla still has both woos. as well as nic rhodes. its not nonsense. i really don't want to sell my WA2, regardless of what i buy for my other headphones, the T1 are really something with this setup, and its still my favorite (though i think i might start to like the LCD-3 more cause its just such a good sounding headphone).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 DG, what is it you like more about the T1/ WA2 vs. HD800/ WA2 combo?


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> lol nah i think im done for a bit after re-buying RS1i or getting PS1000. ZDSE planned for next year as well as HE-6 + some amp.
> 
> of course i'll keep buying tubes and small stuff like that throughout the year though...


 
  Have you spent time listening to the Zana Deux SE? Thoughts about comparison with the WA2?

 I am considering the ZDSE as one of the few OTL amps that can supposedly handle low impedance cans in addition to high imp. My brief encounter which had TH900 (25 ohm) on it was positive.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ru4music said:


> DG, what is it you like more about the T1/ WA2 vs. HD800/ WA2 combo?


 
  its just more musical and works with everything. the HD 800 is still a little too unforgiving at times and the big sound soundstage isn't perfect for everything. plus i really enjoy the T1's bass presentation. its fast, clean, and has enough punch and a fast yet full decay which is nice.
   
  ive been listening to HD 800 more lately though, they just sound so good with the GEC 6AS7G tubes. like a huge improvement vs. all the other tubes, it makes the HD 800 extremely good and better than T1, though i still prefer T1 more, they just get used less often now


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> Have you spent time listening to the Zana Deux SE? Thoughts about comparison with the WA2?
> 
> I am considering the ZDSE as one of the few OTL amps that can supposedly handle low impedance cans in addition to high imp. My brief encounter which had TH900 (25 ohm) on it was positive.


 
   
  nope, no zana deux yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  hope to hear it soon though, i'm curious as to how it would pair with HD 800 and TH-900


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> its just more musical and works with everything. the HD 800 is still a little too unforgiving at times and the big sound soundstage isn't perfect for everything. plus i really enjoy the T1's bass presentation. its fast, clean, and has enough punch and a fast yet full decay which is nice.
> 
> ive been listening to HD 800 more lately though, they just sound so good with the GEC 6AS7G tubes. like a huge improvement vs. all the other tubes, it makes the HD 800 extremely good and better than T1, though i still prefer T1 more, they just get used less often now


 

 That's interesting, I know a while ago you were looking to improve/ change the bass signature on your WA2.  I have found my X-Sabre DAC to bring out your a fore mentioned T-1 qualities in my HD 800s.  It is really bringing the low end signature to a whole new level with a natural/ neutral sound full of defining timbre.  However, I believe it still may lack some of the bass emphasis your are referencing.
   
  BTW, your not covertly building out a new headphone, are you?  I see they are delivering new motor components for your newly designed diaphragms/ drivers:
   
  http://muon-g-2.fnal.gov/bigmove/images/gallery/20130729-Crowd-Around-Magnet.jpg
   
  Hm mm,  a particle accelerated headphone... that just may have something over magnetic planner and electrostatics! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (this assuming you have some sort of affiliation with Fermilab)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ru4music said:


> That's interesting, I know a while ago you were looking to improve/ change the bass signature on your WA2.  I have found my X-Sabre DAC to bring out your a fore mentioned T-1 qualities in my HD 800s.  It is really bringing the low end signature to a whole new level with a natural/ neutral sound full of defining timbre.  However, I believe it still may lack some of the bass emphasis your are referencing.
> 
> BTW, your not covertly building out a new headphone, are you?  I see they are delivering new motor components for your newly designed diaphragms/ drivers:
> 
> ...


 
   
  yeah thats a baby storage ring (accelerator system) for some sort of experiment in fermilab. not affiliated with fermilab (though its a national lab as well and  very close to argonne national lab, where i work at). that ring thats being moved is passing close to argonne lab (like i think its a few minutes away from the lab) for people to come and see. 
   
  it just happened like earlier this week or something i think.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Muons and National Laboratories, this is like the day job!


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here tried the LCD 3 with WA5 and WA5 LE? I was wondering would the LCD3 sound better out of the WA5 using the K1000 out?


----------



## jc9394

Yes and yes. By a good margain.


----------



## rnadell

Hi, I have HD600's and wonder if I should use a wa3 or wa6. 
  What would be the difference between the two? 
  thanks


----------



## knights

Any tube recommendations for 6+800 combo? Got my 6 with 2 sets of tube; International and GE...


----------



## Silent One

Congrats... and what a beautiful shot!


----------



## knights

silent one said:


> Congrats... and what a beautiful shot!




Thank you. The marriage of the two deserves a good photo


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





knights said:


> Any tube recommendations for 6+800 combo? Got my 6 with 2 sets of tube; International and GE...


 
  I like my Internationals (stock) better than the slightly upscale RCAs but I think 6FD7s are more solid with the mighty 596/Sophia 274B.  Nice shot, looks an awful lot like mine.


----------



## jc9394

^^^ what he said.  the mullard gz34 is slightly better than 596 and probably easier to get.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> ^^^ what he said.  the mullard gz34 is slightly better than 596 and probably easier to get.




I still have to try a metal base out one of these days, i think i prefer the 596 to the black base version. Both are good.

The black bases are cheaper and much easier to get than 596 though. They also last forever


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> I still have to try a metal base out one of these days, i think i prefer the 596 to the black base version. Both are good.
> 
> The black bases are cheaper and much easier to get than 596 though. They also last forever


 
   
  for some reason i really like the gz34 over 596 when i have a chance to try it again especially when using hd800.  
   
  the difference between the metal base and black one is like the difference between the straight and curved base of the gec, it is very subtle but it is there if you look for it.  since we are on gz34 topic, did you know there is a mulllard fat base gz34?  it is better than regular black version and performance close to metal base.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yeah the fat black base ones late 50s? 

Id just jump for the metal rather than buy those.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Yeah the fat black base ones late 50s?
> 
> Id just jump for the metal rather than buy those.


 
   
  true, sometime you may get lucky on the fat base one if the owner do not know the difference.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

How much do they go for? Ill guess 150-200? 

Since the black bases are like 80-140$


----------



## jhljhl

Do people prefer woo and other tubes over ss because of transistor hash?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> How much do they go for? Ill guess 150-200?
> 
> Since the black bases are like 80-140$


 
  Try $800 for one of the (holy grail) Holland Mini watt!
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/GZ34-Philips-metal-base-1955-5AR4-CV1377-Tested-/190878342615?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c713c5dd7


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jhljhl said:


> Do people prefer woo and other tubes over ss because of transistor hash?


 

 I own both tube and ss amps and prefer both. The ss amp that I enjoy thoroughly is my beta22 sigma22 built by Corey Warner of SWA.
   
_*EDIT*_: I also like my SPL Auditor. Very nice.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I own both tube and ss amps and prefer both. The ss amp that I enjoy thoroughly is my beta22 sigma22 built by Corey Warner of SWA.


 
  +1 on owning both.  My SS is for transparency, the Violectric V200. My woos are for the magic that they bring to the sound.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Try $800 for one of the (holy grail) Holland Mini watt!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GZ34-Philips-metal-base-1955-5AR4-CV1377-Tested-/190878342615?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c713c5dd7


 
   
   
  This is crazy, when I was looking to the GZ34.  The Philips Mini Watt metal base is only ~$400.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> How much do they go for? Ill guess 150-200?
> 
> Since the black bases are like 80-140$


 
   
  I have not look for tubes for a long time (saved a few bucks) but that seems like right.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I have not look for tubes for a long time (saved a few bucks) but that seems like right.


 
   
  No need to roll glass in the Shindo kit, will save that activity for another tube amp. I too, enjoy both my SS's and tube amps.


----------



## jc9394

My vintage Marantz paper weight has been serving me very well. Me too, both tube and SS amps.


----------



## Eee Pee

Don't think I have ever seen a GZ34 go for that much!  Crazy.  Half that at most on various sites, like tubeworld.  Though I just found a "New metal base European" for $600 at vacuumtubes.net, and now I see a few way up there on eBay...
   
  I recently DROPPED my black base CV1337 (military GZ34) on the wood floor from standing up!  Easily a four foot fall.  Talk about slow motion and heart stopping moment!  And it still freaking works!  Yay military spec!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





nututubes said:


> Try $800 for one of the (holy grail) Holland Mini watt!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GZ34-Philips-metal-base-1955-5AR4-CV1377-Tested-/190878342615?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c713c5dd7


 
   
   
  yeah the metal base are really expensive now. but still i wouldn't ever pay that much $800 is outrageous, i could buy one of those Western Electric 422A instead.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah the metal base are really expensive now. but still i wouldn't ever pay that much $800 is outrageous, i could buy one of those Western Electric 422A instead.


 
   
   
  but i heard we422 isn't that great.  or at least not we300b great.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

fhuang said:


> but i heard we422 isn't that great.  or at least not we300b great.




Theres 3 rectifier types i think. 274B 422A and 274A. I thought they where all supposed to the very best rectifiers available. I not, then ill just look for GEC U52


----------



## Frank I

Her you go Dub
   



​ 

​ [size=1.231em] NOS MB GEC CV1071 U52 Hi-end Rectifier Pair Valve Tubes Original military box.

 
    
 From Taiwan









[/size]


----------



## jc9394

don't do it, it is not worth it.  spend your money on driver tubes instead, the 596, gz34, or 274b/5u4g are good enough, you will notice more difference on driver tubes.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Theres 3 rectifier types i think. 274B 422A and 274A. I thought they where all supposed to the very best rectifiers available. I not, then ill just look for GEC U52


 
   
   
  don't really listen to me.  if you get a chance and if not too expensive, i think still worth to get it.  i was only saying they're not the greatest of the greats. besides, i only heard the hifi guys, both the customers and the clerks.  not my own experience. 
   
  a friend of mine has gec 5u4g.  he told me he loves it and he's using it with wa22.  gec u52, similar to gec 5u4g?


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> don't do it, it is not worth it.  spend your money on driver tubes instead, the 596, gz34, or 274b/5u4g are good enough, you will notice more difference on driver tubes.


 
   
   
  i think we are like moth to a flame.  we just can't help what we want get, or not to get sometimes


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> don't really listen to me.  if you get a chance and if not too expensive, i think still worth to get it.  i was only saying they're not the greatest of the greats. besides, i only heard the hifi guys, both the customers and the clerks.  not my own experience.
> 
> a friend of mine has gec 5u4g.  he told me he loves it and he's using it with wa22.  *gec u52, similar to gec 5u4g*?


 
   
  as far as i know, they are the same/similar.


----------



## jc9394

DG, if you are thinking WA22 or WA5, your money probably better spend on Macroni 6F8G.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> i think we are like moth to a flame.  we just can't help what we want get, or not to get sometimes


----------



## fhuang

hey silent, TMAC?  t-mac?
   
  i meant your avatar


----------



## Silent One

Yes, it's "Anime August."


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> DG, if you are thinking WA22 or WA5, your money probably better spend on Macroni 6F8G.


 
  she has some nice tungsol 6f8g as well . The difference  in rectifiers is very subtle on the WA5. I just swapped the 5U4G RCA for the Phillips 5R4GYS and there are differences . The sounds stage got wider with the Phillips and the top end is more extended but I lose some bass and mid bass form the RCA 5U4G that I like so much. I also like the Phillips tube and almost bought some Brimar 5R4Gy today bit I need to stop spending money and I have more 6Fg8G tungsol round plates coming so i have driver coming out the kazoo. I am done buying tubes for a little while anyway I have not heard huge differences in rectifer being swapped always subtle and their are always plus and minus with every rectifier. The Phillips has a organic mid range good bass but short of the RCA and the top end on the Phillips is very extended and sound stage is wider and deeper.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





frank i said:


> she has some nice tungsol 6f8g as well . The difference  in rectifiers is very subtle on the WA5. I just swapped the 5U4G RCA for the Phillips 5R4GYS and there are differences . The sounds stage got wider with the Phillips and the top end is more extended but I lose some bass and mid bass form the RCA 5U4G that I like so much. I also like the Phillips tube and almost bought some Brimar 5R4Gy today bit I need to stop spending money and I have more 6Fg8G tungsol round plates coming so i have driver coming out the kazoo. I am done buying tubes for a little while anyway I have not heard huge differences in rectifer being swapped always subtle and their are always plus and minus with every rectifier. The Phillips has a organic mid range good bass but short of the RCA and the top end on the Phillips is very extended and sound stage is wider and deeper.


 
   
   
  i wouldn't say subtle.  at least not my wa5


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> i wouldn't say subtle.  at least not my wa5




X2, from stock to EML is a huge jump, to EAT is another jump (not as much from stock to EML).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> DG, if you are thinking WA22 or WA5, your money probably better spend on Macroni 6F8G.




The bl63/6f8g on ebay? They work with wa22?

I have one pair of ts 6f8g (not round plate i cant find them), and one pair of sylvania6f8g and one pair of raytheon 6f8g for when i upgrade to wa22


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> Her you go Dub




Lol no thanks wayyy too much. Though i tempted in buying a single tube, u should try those out on wa5


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> X2, from stock to EML is a huge jump, to EAT is another jump (not as much from stock to EML).


 
  Did you know that the EAT tubes are made by JJ.? You can buy the JJ 300B carbon and save lots of money over the EAT.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Lol no thanks wayyy too much. Though i tempted in buying a single tube, u should try those out on wa5


 
  I am done.
  buying tubes for now. I have all I need. I am not spending 400 for a rectifier. I wont pay 260.00 for the EML either.   I am pretty satisfuied with what io have now and really concentrating more on speaker projects now. I will be reviewing some nice high efficiency speaker sin the fall and looking forward to that. I have all the headphones I need also. 
   
  One of the great things about doing reviews  is I never run out of new and interesting gear to listen to and work on. Working on getting a JVC DX2000 for a review.


----------



## Frank I

Here is what Brent jesse said about the JJ tubes 300B he sell for 299.00 pair but they are sold for 219.00 at the tubestore. ns 23900 pair at tube depot
   
   
   

  New production tubes. A rare 300B from the Slovak Republic, built like the legendary WE tubes but at a fraction of the price. Unlike the WE tubes, these feature a rugged white ceramic base. These same tubes are also made by JJ for EAT, at a much higher price! JJ tubes are probably the smoothest sounding tubes next to NOS tubes themselves. Sold by the single tube, please add $10 per tube for matching into pairs or quads.


----------



## rosgr63

The JJ and EAT are neither built nor sound the same.


----------



## Frank I

LOL The Brent Jesse is doing lots of false advertising on his website. Check his website Brent Jesse Recoding


----------



## jc9394

I never heard JJ before but I do not think the EAT is made by JJ.  It does not looks the same from the pics.


----------



## Frank I

He  had information also saying that hytron 5692  were made by rca, and that I was told also was not true.  I wonder why he would state that thug about the JJ. Weird


----------



## rosgr63

I have both JJ and EAT which were tested on my BA and Tektron and this is my opinion with my equipment, others might think otherwise, which is fine by me.
   
  NU made tubes for WE which don't look or sound the same either.


----------



## Silent One

EAT-JJ 300B Tubes
   
  Some moons back - perhaps 24 - I read about tube production around the globe. It is my understanding that the two are not the same nor one being produced by the other. Going forward, I will stand corrected. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  What they have is a shared history with Telsa. With the current owner of EAT (Miss Jozefina) initially being a customer of Telsa for their 300B & KT88 tubes. Then accepted an offer to buy the factory and equipment some time after. This was a small portion of the Telsa operation (Mother company) which continued to do business. This remaining Telsa group would merged with another company down the line and eventually become independent. After a reorganization, JJ Tube factories have all of Telsa's equipment which formerly was used to make legendary tubes back in the day producing Marconi radio transmitting tubes in 1936.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I have both JJ and EAT which were tested on my BA and Tektron and this is my opinion with my equipment, others might think otherwise, which is fine by me.
> 
> NU made tubes for WE which don't look or sound the same either.


 
  Stavros are you saying that JJ may have made the tube for EAT.  I don't think one way or the other. i only quoted what Brent Jesse states on his website .


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





silent one said:


> EAT-JJ 300B Tubes
> 
> Some moons back - perhaps 24 - I read about tube production around the globe. It is my understanding that the two are not the same nor one being produced by the other. Going forward, I will stand corrected.
> 
> ...


 
  I remember reading that a few years ago. The question I have is EAT making their own tubes or is JJ OEM the 300B as Brent Jesse claims. I have heard neither and know there is some issues with JJ tubes.  My vendors do not like to carry them because of issues with the quality.


----------



## rosgr63

And somewhere in the picture appeared Alesha Vaic and Dr Kron, AVVT, KR, JJ, EAT, EML, Ayon Audio and so on.
   
  I have read that EAT were made on Tesla equipment by ex Tesla craftsmen, what SO mentioned.


----------



## Silent One

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/yamamoto6/sidebar1.html
   
   
  What I had read...


----------



## rosgr63

In some JJ early production runs the filament could touch the plate.
   
  For their money they are well worth it, and don't sound too bad.


----------



## Frank I

If you read that article its all get s very confusing but it appears JJ has the Tesla gear and factory. I also seen in that article the owner of EAT has a factory down the road but its not clear if he still making valves and thta article is not current so no way to know what the real deal is. There are three tubes coming out of that area, well four actually Kron,EML,JJ  and EAT. I have only heard the EML and Kron all I heard was there 2A3 which in Don North amp I preferred the EML solid plate over the Kron tube. I will see if I can get George Lenz to decipher Brent Jesse claims.


----------



## Silent One

Jozefina - Owner of EAT
   
  What I find fascinating about all these tube related histories is that it seems no one really cared back in the day. From keeping records to keeping the stories straight. All seemed content to move on to the era of transistors. 
   





 Lots of "Who dunnit" material for Hollywood screenwriters.


----------



## Frank I

I checked with George Lenz and he said that he not siure what the status of EATb is anymore. Music Hall is the distributor and Roy has no tubes listed on the product site and is carrying one EAT product so not even sure they making tubes anymore.


----------



## rnadell

Hi, I am going to purchase a wa6se, wondering what tubes to start with that would
  be on the warm side. 
  Are the suggested upgrade tubes the way to go? 
  thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

umm maybe Philips 5R4GY and Sylvania 6DE7


----------



## jc9394

What headphones?

Warmer, try Sofia and 6EW7


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh **** just put my tung sol 7236 in my WA2. wow, they're really good!!!
   
  like sylvania 7236 but the SS sounding sound is gone, and instead, they're just as fast but with a smoother warmer more sounded sound. i like these..... they're like super warm and tubey, like RCA 6AS7G but better. the highs are like really laid back.
   
  i hope this doesn't make me buy a spare pair of these, i'm still waiting for the 5998 buy as well....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> What headphones?
> 
> Warmer, try Sofia and 6EW7


 
   
  +1
   
  this is my favorite combo for warm and forgiving yet engaging.
   
  i recommended philips 5r4gy and sylvania 6de7 for an even tubier yet slower sound. (cheaper than sophia too!)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just pulled the trigger on a brand new pair of PS1000s...
   
  i think this will be my last headphone, i know i've been wanting them for so long now...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just pulled the trigger on a brand new pair of PS1000s...
> 
> i think this will be my last headphone, i know i've been wanting them for so long now...


 
  congrats!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah.
   
  i really didn't wanna pay full price.
   
  but grados are bitches sometimes, especially with driver issues, would be nice to get them fixed for free if somethings wrong. also, this way i guarantee my chrome is absolutely flawless (i know when i had my chrome 325is i loved how they where completely spotless and i could clean them with windex and they'd shine really nicely)


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah.
> 
> i really didn't wanna pay full price.
> 
> but grados are bitches sometimes, especially with driver issues, would be nice to get them fixed for free if somethings wrong. also, this way i guarantee my chrome is absolutely flawless (i know when i had my chrome 325is i loved how they where completely spotless and i could clean them with windex and they'd shine really nicely)


 
  hahahahahahah


----------



## Silent One

@ DG


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> oh **** just put my tung sol 7236 in my WA2. wow, they're really good!!!
> 
> like sylvania 7236 but the SS sounding sound is gone, and instead, they're just as fast but with a smoother warmer more sounded sound. i like these..... they're like super warm and tubey, like RCA 6AS7G but better. the highs are like really laid back.
> 
> i hope this doesn't make me buy a spare pair of these, i'm still waiting for the 5998 buy as well....




I totally agreed that TS sounds better than the Sylvania. Don't worry about 5998, it will not be better than the TS 7236.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> just pulled the trigger on a brand new pair of PS1000s...
> 
> i think this will be my last headphone, i know i've been wanting them for so long now...




You really meant you are done for now...


----------



## Glam Bash

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just pulled the trigger on a brand new pair of PS1000s...
> 
> i think this will be my last headphone, i know i've been wanting them for so long now...


 
  Congratulations, and sorry for your wallet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i hope this doesn't make me buy a spare pair of these, i'm still waiting for the 5998 buy as well....


 
   
  I got news that the tubes all had black spots so I cancelled the order. Sorry


----------



## rosgr63

Can you post a photo of the spots please for reference?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Sorry but I don't have a picture.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> I got news that the tubes all had black spots so I cancelled the order. Sorry




Saves some money for now


----------



## kazsud

ultrainferno said:


> I got news that the tubes all had black spots so I cancelled the order. Sorry



 
 What do black spots mean?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## jc9394

Messing around with my camera...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> What do black spots mean?


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   
  Quote from a website:
   
*Some of the things to look for that indicates that tubes have been used are burn marks, which may appear as dark spots on the silver part of the glass tube, called the "flashing" of the tube. The tube’s flashing is the first place to look for signs of use*


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Looks great to me!  Keep 'em coming!
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Messing around with my camera...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote from a website:
> 
> *...*


 
   
  Thanks, Ultra. As long as the supplier wasn't trying to pass 'em off as NOS. This lot should be quarantined.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Messing around with my camera...


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Silent One

Can't wait till jc9394 gets to the Woo. A shot just waiting for that BIG BAD Nikon!


----------



## jc9394

oh it is coming, gonna take that bad boy out of storage this weekend.  found a place i can put it and able keep my 2 years olds fingers away from it.


----------



## Silent One

I find your avatar to be a very _moving _display...


----------



## jc9394

i will retake it again, i pull the trigger on this yesterday to celebrate the return of WA22.


----------



## kazsud

Thanks


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> i will retake it again, i pull the trigger on this yesterday to celebrate the return of WA22.


 
   
  Fantastique! Also, when you re-shoot the Woo, I bet DG appears faster than you can "shutter!"


----------



## jc9394

hope no one mind i keep posting non woo pics here.  listening to jacky cheung 1/2 century concert, the soundstage is simply amazing it has incredible depth and details.


----------



## Silent One

Only if you mix in the occasional K-Mok track, I won't say a thing!


----------



## jc9394

On queue sir.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> just pulled the trigger on a brand new pair of PS1000s...
> 
> i think this will be my last headphone, i know i've been wanting them for so long now...


 
   
  So we've all said....
   
  ...How you liking the LCD3?..


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Messing around with my camera...


 
  what cable is that? looks like its... plugged into the stand??


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gloryuprising said:


> So we've all said....
> 
> ...How you liking the LCD3?..




Been listening more to audeze now that i have the 3s, havent had too much time to listen though cause of work and all


----------



## jc9394

New toys showed up, ready for the WA22 glamour shoot...


----------



## jc9394

i think this is the best lens i ever owned...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> i think this is the best lens i ever owned...


 
  wow - nice pics.


----------



## jc9394




----------



## atomicbob

Pulled the trigger on a ZDSE with P&G pot upgrade. Won't replace my beloved WA3+ or WA7. Custom made upon order, so will take awhile. Must be patient.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ That looks very nice, too. And next to Corey's b22, too.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> Pulled the trigger on a ZDSE with P&G pot upgrade. Won't replace my beloved WA3+ or WA7. Custom made upon order, so will take awhile. Must be patient.


 
  Grats, AB!  That should be an amazing amp.  I'm sure we'd all love to hear your impressions once the amp arrives.
   
  I'm currently enjoying my new TH-900s.  Paired with the WA7 the sound is really quite stunning.  I've heard people suggest that these cans have recessed mids, but I'm not hearing it.  It may be just the new headphone euphoria talking, but these are my absolute favorites right now, beating out the HD800s by quite a bit.  Although they don't have the same wide open soundstage of the 800, they have a tad more bass than they 800s, and I find the mids and highs to be just as strong as the Senns.  And they are beautiful, to boot!  What a great sounding can.  I'm truly in heaven right now.


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 
   
  The Sun Woo also rises in the East.


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 
  I'll drink to that!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


>


 
  very nice


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's beautiful! Very nice pictures.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





bbophead said:


> I'll drink to that!


 
   
  +1
   




   
  nice pics! 
   
  i especially like the metal base GZ34 in that pic


----------



## atomicbob

Great pictures of the WA22 and Marantz 2265B. Years ago I had a 2270. There are times I wish I had held on to that.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





galaxyguy said:


> Grats, AB!  That should be an amazing amp.  I'm sure we'd all love to hear your impressions once the amp arrives.
> 
> I'm currently enjoying my new TH-900s.  Paired with the WA7 the sound is really quite stunning.  I've heard people suggest that these cans have recessed mids, but I'm not hearing it.  It may be just the new headphone euphoria talking, but these are my absolute favorites right now, beating out the HD800s by quite a bit.  Although they don't have the same wide open soundstage of the 800, they have a tad more bass than they 800s, and I find the mids and highs to be just as strong as the Senns.  And they are beautiful, to boot!  What a great sounding can.  I'm truly in heaven right now.


 
  Thanks GG. The WA7 brings out the best in all my collection of cans, which sadly does not include TH-900 ... yet. Will be very interesting to compare & contrast the WA3+, WA7 and ZDSE when it arrives several months in the future. So many combinations, so much music, so little time.


----------



## GloryUprising

Preliminary picture of my listening room.


----------



## Silent One

Nicely presented, GloryUprising.


----------



## grokit

JC that's the most compact WA22 I've seen yet!


----------



## GrindingThud

What rectifier is that?


----------



## Jd007

recently came across an old (i think?), custom made (im guessing?) woo audio amp, seems to have been made in jack's ebay days, kinda looks like a wa2. does anybody know what it is and when it was made? any information on them would be helpful, thanks. images are below:
   
  front: http://cdn.head-fi.org/7/76/76c9cbf0_WooAudio.jpeg
  front top: http://i.imgur.com/dnTEjtc.jpg
  back: http://i.imgur.com/5upsrlB.jpg (two left rcas are inputs, selected by the flip switch; two right rcas are preamp outs)
   
  tubes used are mostly compatible with wa2, except for driver tubes. they are:
   
6DJ8 (pre-amp/driver)
6AS7G or 6922 (power)
6Z4 miniature 7 pin tube (rectifier)


----------



## jc9394

grindingthud said:


> What rectifier is that?




Mullard metal base GZ34


----------



## Silent One

WEEeeeeeeee... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I'm a "Woozie" again. Over the weekend I picked up an energizer from WooAudio.
   




   
  I don't recall seeing a colour option. Hopefully, mine will arrive in Black.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





silent one said:


> WEEeeeeeeee...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Uh oh!  I have seen them in Silver!  Don't worry, the silver Woo's sound better.  It's been clearly documented here many times.
   
  And now there is no danger of you loosing your Woo-Card!


----------



## dahan

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Very nice pics! Is metal based GZ34 significantly better than USAF-596?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Uh oh!  I have seen them in Silver!  Don't worry, the silver Woo's sound better.  It's been clearly documented here many times.
> 
> And now there is no danger of you loosing your Woo-Card!


 
   
  So, the question is:_ "If it arrives in Silver cladding, would I send it back?"_




   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dahan said:


> Very nice pics! Is metal based GZ34 significantly better than USAF-596?


 
   
  Very hard to say, they have different presentation but I absolutely love it with HD800.  I think it is more of component and tube matching on your setup.


----------



## shipsupt

If I had to pick one, it would still be my GZ34 over the 596.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> If I had to pick one, it would still be my GZ34 over the 596.


 
  I have to agree on this...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I have yet to hear the metal base. I do prefer 596 over the black base though. Of course i would think that 596 vs metal gz34 is more of a preference thing than anything else, both are very good tubes with a similar sound


----------



## jc9394

596 definitely a great tubes, i just love the dynamic that the gz34 has.


----------



## knights

WarmTubes for Cold Night...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Another fan of the metal based GZ34.


----------



## jc9394

Uh oh, I heard DG counting pennies...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Uh oh, I heard DG counting pennies...


 
   
  maybe...
   
  and lol coincidentally i actually just went a few hours ago to coinstar to cash in all my change that was in my car, not enough for a metal base, but for lunch and gas for the next week or 2


----------



## grokit

I think I have one of those GZ34's somewhere...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I think I have one of those GZ34's somewhere...


----------



## fhuang

how does gz34 comparing to gz37?  from my experience for tubes, size matter.  the bigger, most of the time, the better


----------



## Ultrainferno

I wouldn't dare generalize that though


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> how does gz34 comparing to gz37?  from my experience for tubes, size matter. * the bigger, most of the time, the better*




LMAO, not sure how I will answer this.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> LMAO, not sure how I will answer this.


 
   
   
  i thought you have have plenty of expenice, 9394 
   
   
   
  seriously you guys have any experience on gz34 and 37?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> how does gz34 comparing to gz37?  from my experience for tubes, size matter.  the bigger, most of the time, the better


 
   
  How about bigger with horns at the top like the 596?


----------



## jc9394

I will take my "fifth" please. 

I have both GZ34 and GZ37, bigger the better is not the case here. IMHO, the 37 have better soundstage and the 34 is much more dynamics and the bass authorities the 37 lacks. It is much better pairing with HD800.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I will take mg "fifth" please.
> 
> I have both GZ34 and GZ37, bigger the better is not the case here. IMHO, the 37 have better soundstage and the 34 is much more dynamics and the bass authorities the 37 lacks. It is much better pairing with HD800.


 

 Also, IMHO, the GZ37 is warmer than the 596.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Also, IMHO, the GZ37 is warmer than the 596.




More tubey?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> More tubey?


 
  Exactly. That's the word. Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

I think the GZ37 is a kick ass tube for the price, not sure about the price now but when I got mines it is less than 596.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> How about bigger with horns at the top like the 596?


 
   
   
  too hard and expense to get now.  i acutally like my gz37 more than my eml 5u4g, which is bigger


----------



## Ultrainferno

Like Clayton says, the GZ37 is much warmer but less dynamic. On the other hand you get more low end as the 596. Don't forget to try the GZ33 as well, they're like the 37 but sound a bit less tubey
  The 5U4G(B) RCA is even warmer and has even better bass but you loose in dynamics and sound stage.
   
  We bought some russian black plates 5c3s (5u4g) and those will be the next I try. Another fav of mine is the RK60, it's more or less like the 5U4GB but with more detail and sound stage, but it requires an adapter.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I think the GZ37 is a kick ass tube for the price, not sure about the price now but when I got mines it is less than 596.


 
   
   
  how much was it?  i remember 596 was like 10 dollars?  or less last year.


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> how much was it?  i remember 596 was like 10 dollars?  or less last year.




$30, when I first start buying 596 it was $20 and the last huge order of 596 (40s) to get few matched pairs it was $40.


----------



## fhuang

is gz34 as warm and smooth as gz37?  what you guys like more than the 37?  i only tried a few rectifier tubes, eml and rca 5u4g for example.  each has it different sound and character but i like gz37 the best.  i really like the smooth sound of gz37.


----------



## jc9394

No, the GZ34 is more detail but not clinical sounding. It is faster, more details, more quality bass, and pin point instruments separation. Well at least on the metal base GZ34, I sold my black base one a day after I received the metal base one.

I think the GZ37 is more forgiving and smooth sounding.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> No, the GZ34 is more detail but not clinical sounding. It is faster, more details, more quality bass, and pin point instruments separation. Well at least on the metal base GZ34, I sold my black base one a day after I received the metal base one.
> 
> I think the GZ37 is more forgiving and smooth sounding.


 
   
   
  i think i'm good with gz37 then.  a romanic sound is what i'm looking for, most of the time.


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> i think i'm good with gz37 then.  a romanic sound is what i'm looking for, most of the time.




It is more romantic, I was think using romantic to describe it but I'm not sure it is the WA22 thing or not.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Gz34 is fast dynamic and with good bass, the 596 is similar but a little bit warmer, still very neutral and forward, extended bass that remains neutral.

The gz37 is much different, tubey and warm. Theres also the 5r4gy tubes which are similar sounding.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It is more romantic, I was think using romantic to describe it but I'm not sure it is the WA22 thing or not.


 
   
   
  i think wa5 can be very tubey.  specially with gz37.  which one is more tubey?  wa5 or wa22?  of course with tubey tube


----------



## kchew

It's odd that my findings with the GZ34, GZ37 and 596 seem to differ from general consensus. With Tung Sol BGRP, GEC 6AS7 and HD800, I didn't like the GZ34 (both black and metal base) much. I found them rather bright with a small soundstage. With 6F8G drivers they sound great though, but it's odd that the electrically equivalent 6SN7s don't seem to play nice with the GZ34 in my system. I'm tempted to sell them, but I keep thinking that I'll find a great tube combo for them in the future.
   
  The skinny GZ37 was somewhat meh to my ears, decent but nothing outstanding. The fat bottle version is a different beast altogether that has a fantastic cozy, tubey feel. It's my favourite indirect-heated rectifier by far.
   
  I find the 596 to be a great all-rounder with few glaring weaknesses. It has a good blend of wide soundstaging, warmish tones, slightly forward presentation and fast dynamics. In fact, it has been residing in my Woo for a few months already and I don't feel the urge to rotate it out.


----------



## fhuang

didn't know there are two types of bottle for gz37.  you mind to show us some pictures?


----------



## Ultrainferno




----------



## fhuang

i thought the skinny one sound pretty good already


----------



## kchew

The fat bottle is noticeably better. Unfortunately it's hard to find and not cheap.
   
  I found my old post in this thread comparing seven rectifiers, I thought it'll be good to share as we're discussing rectifiers: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325#post_8305688


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





kchew said:


> The fat bottle is noticeably better. Unfortunately it's hard to find and not cheap.
> 
> I found my old post in this thread comparing seven rectifiers, I thought it'll be good to share as we're discussing rectifiers: http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/20325#post_8305688


 
   
   
  i read it before but i have none of the tubes.  now i have some of them and i understand much better, thanks


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> i thought the skinny one sound pretty good already




It maybe different for you since you are using 300B, they are in a different league and different presentation.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> It maybe different for you since you are using 300B, they are in a different league and different presentation.


 
   
   
  there might be some differences since i'm using a different amp but we're only talking about tubes.  should be somewhat with the same result?


----------



## Silent One

Not in my experience...


----------



## fhuang

i have different tube amps but somehow they don't use the same tubes.....not even one.  so i have no idea.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Not in my experience...




Yep, silmiliar tubes combo sound very different between WA22 and WA5. The 300B makes a huge difference...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yeah the older fat bottle gz37 is supposably better than the mullard gz37, it looks different and was made in a different place as well. Expensive though.similar price as u52


----------



## jc9394

WA22 in action...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> WA22 in action...


 
   
  I'm just guessing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 if you added Audio/Video, the servers on Head-Fi would be overwhelmed with response from readers. By-the-way, jc9394, I finished building my new rig Saturday:
   
  Preamp: Shindo Laboratory Aurieges w/MM Phono stage
   
  Amps: Shindo Laboratory F2a Sinhonia monoblocks
   
  Power conditioning: Shindo Laboratory "Mr. T"
   
  Headphones: Stax SR-009/WooAudio WEE


----------



## Ultrainferno

We are still waiting for pictures, SO


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> We are still waiting for pictures, SO


 
   





 Tokyo is holding up the program! Silver Interconnects are being made as we speak. And another 4 weeks for the Stax to hit shore. This could take a while, so... I'll research new year-end holiday recipes for now.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm just guessing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You have 009's?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm just guessing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  when should i bring over the tea?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Tokyo is holding up the program! Silver Interconnects are being made as we speak. And another 4 weeks for the Stax to hit shore. This could take a while, so... I'll research new year-end holiday recipes for now.


 
  i will bring over my camera for some A/V porn


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> when should i bring over the tea?


 
   
  And me the bubbly?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> And me the bubbly?


 
   
  I'm counting on you to "Hit" Reims on your way to the airport!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> You have 009's?


 
   
  Just ordered Saturday. Though, I can't get my grubby lil' hands_ tea serving hands _on them fast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




enough. Jack asked that I please allow 4 weeks.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Just ordered Saturday. Though, I can't get my grubby lil' hands_ tea serving hands _on them fast
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats on that, the top of the mountain is within reach, and where will you go from there?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> i will bring over my camera for some A/V porn


 
   
  I still have road cases w/wheels for music instruments (formerly worked with some Pro Audio cats). I was thinking on my NY trip to bring a few pieces of gear and sit with DavidMahler for a Saturday. Going for other reasons, but if that worked out...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And will definitely check your schedule. Wouldn't mind heading north for the day, either.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Congrats on that, the top of the mountain is within reach, and where will you go from there?


 
   





 Quietly downhill... you know the euphoria addicts get_ rushed_ for? Rise... crash... rise... "_Wait, anyone seen SO lately?" _



_ _
   
  On my audio adventure, I absolutely love experimenting and playing around with gear. While I've a pretty good idea what this system would sound like with speakers, I have absolutely no idea if the magic of speakers will transfer over to the headphone side without some or all of the magic being lost.
   
  According to my wallet, this is one big experiment. I have an open mind to try things. And an open to door to run out of screamin' if it doesn't work out.


----------



## jc9394

Let me know, I will try to clear my calendar. Maybe even a trip to big apple.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> h34r:  Quietly downhill... you know the euphoria addicts get _rushed_ for? Rise... crash... rise... "_Wait, anyone seen SO lately?" _
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Some Wilson puppy love?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Some Wilson puppy love?


 
   





 Speakers, post employment for sure!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Omg grats on sr-009! Looks like ur gonna have one hell of a rig once is done


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice SO, congratulations!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm counting on you to "Hit" Reims on your way to the airport!


 
   
  sure, that's only a 5 hour detour


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Dubstep Girl; rosgr63. But Ultra, your flight will likely be delayed anyway...


----------



## magiccabbage

Wow i am only now realising that the woo wee is a converter! I need to go on the wee thread. silent you are planning on using this with your mono's right?


----------



## Silent One

Yup.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yup.


 
  I cant wait for the pictures. you must be very excited


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I cant wait for the pictures. you must be very excited


 
   
  We're ecstatic! Though, something doesn't feel quite right. It seems in all my excitement, I am overlooking something. I'll know sooner or later...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We're ecstatic! Though, something doesn't feel quite right. It seems in all my excitement, I am overlooking something. I'll know sooner or later...


 
  the Woo - Wee needs 3 watts from an amp, so that rules out the WA2 right?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> the Woo - Wee needs 3 watts from an amp, so that rules out the WA2 right?


 
   
  Seems you wanna try some Stats. What are your other options for amps?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Seems you wanna try some Stats. What are your other options for amps?


 
  none. I only own the WA2. Wont be buying another amp for a while. I will get the HD800 next and then a DAC. After all of that when i eventually get around to buying an amp i will stick with tubes, probably 300b. 
   
  Dont think the Wee is a plausible option for me, at least not in the near future.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> none. I only own the WA2. Wont be buying another amp for a while. I will get the HD800 next and then a DAC. After all of that when i eventually get around to buying an amp i will stick with tubes, probably 300b.
> 
> Dont think the Wee is a plausible option for me, at least not in the near future.


 
   
  My purchase makes sense, as I'm finally headed down Speaker Street. And the WEE will serve when I cannot listen to them. But before I buy anything else, I need to downsize, sell and/or give away a few things. I like space in my environment, not into collecting. Will likely shed a couple of amps, cabling and stuff.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My purchase makes sense, as I'm finally headed down Speaker Street. And the WEE will serve when I cannot listen to them. But before I buy anything else, I need to downsize, sell and/or give away a few things. I like space in my environment, not into collecting. Will likely shed a couple of amps, cabling and stuff.


 
  selling glen? maybe not actually


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah thats a baby storage ring (accelerator system) for some sort of experiment in fermilab. not affiliated with fermilab (though its a national lab as well and  very close to argonne national lab, where i work at). that ring thats being moved is passing close to argonne lab (like i think its a few minutes away from the lab) for people to come and see.
> 
> it just happened like earlier this week or something i think.


 
   
  OMG-- My dad worked at Argonne back in the 1970s.  I grew up in Clarendon Hills.


----------



## reeltime

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> If I had to pick one, it would still be my GZ34 over the 596.


 
   
  +1
   
  596 is sexier, but it's a bit light in the bass for my taste.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  WEE, 009, and some massive monoblocks with silver cables, we will soon see what the WEE can do!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





reeltime said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmm, I'll have to dig that puppy out next time I listen direct. I actually only auditioned it for a short time, but somebody did kind of forced/threw a metal-based gz34 in with my backup Princess I think!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

reeltime said:


> OMG-- My dad worked at Argonne back in the 1970s.  I grew up in Clarendon Hills.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> WEE, 009, and some massive monoblocks with silver cables, we will soon see what the WEE can do!


 
   
  With us having similar systems, our dialogue could prove engaging, this_ cold_ coming winter.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With us having similar systems, our dialogue could prove engaging, this_ cold_ coming winter.


 
  cold in LA - yea right!


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> cold in LA - yea right!


 
   
   
  70 degrees is cold to them


----------



## Silent One

You all watch too much television!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You all watch too much television!


 
  I don't have a TV, I happen to hate the thing.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You all watch too much television!


 
   
   
  yea too much lately, all football!!!  football is HERE!!!


----------



## jc9394

As much as I like the GZ34, I hate it when the amp is running much warmer than other tubes.


----------



## spagetka

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> As much as I like the GZ34, I hate it when the amp is running much warmer than other tubes.


 
  +1


----------



## jc9394

Here we go again...


----------



## Silent One

Gillette? Is it really THAT time of year again?


----------



## jc9394

Yep, wish me luck...


----------



## GalaxyGuy

You are definitely forbidden from even thinking about football before the World Series. 



jc9394 said:


> Here we go again...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Yep, wish me luck...


 
   
  Wednesday, the moving van arrived with the rest of my gear. The audio rig will be whole once again.


----------



## jc9394

I don't disagree but I'm more of football person.


----------



## Silent One

One turn-off for me about the NBA, NFL & MLB though, is the constant creep of extended seasons. Besides added revenue, the only other two things I see are more injuries and mediocre play. 
   
  Do you realize Game 7 of the 2012 World Series would have been "1 November?!" That's ludicrous!!!


----------



## moriez

Guys, I'm looking for another can that goes really well with the WA3. Really enjoying HD650/600 and Beyer 880's so far and can't surpass that pricebracket. Recommendations?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Wednesday, the moving van arrived with the rest of my gear. The audio rig will be whole once again.


 
  Pics!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One turn-off for me about the NBA, NFL & MLB though, is the constant creep of extended seasons. Besides added revenue, the only other two things I see are more injuries and mediocre play.
> 
> Do you realize Game 7 of the 2012 World Series would have been "1 November?!" That's ludicrous!!!


 
  Did you hear Malcom gladwells ideas about banning college football? I don't know much about american football but that does ound a bit extreme.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *GalaxyGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Pics!


 
   
  This is of the existing rig, which you've seen... nuthin' new. I'm just excited to get my hands on it again after moving. It is the _new_ rig I just completed last weekend,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that pix await...


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





moriez said:


> Guys, I'm looking for another can that goes really well with the WA3. Really enjoying HD650/600 and Beyer 880's so far and can't surpass that pricebracket. Recommendations?


 
  What are you trying to achieve? A compliment to your present cans with a different sound? Improvement over the present cans?


----------



## moriez

Maybe a good question but I cannot think of anything that I'm specifically looking for. I like the signature of the three mentioned and I'm just fishing after what cans other Woo 3 owners have as their favourite(s). Haven't tried any others except the DT990's and AKG K702 which weren't my thing.


----------



## atomicbob

My three favorites with the WA3 are HD600, HD800 and T90. Occasionally a AH-D5000.


----------



## moriez

Cool. Would be nice to hear all those eventhough I know I can't afford them. That's why I mentioned that I can't surpass the pricebracket of my fav headphones. Well, a T90 couuuld work at one point with a little saving


----------



## Dubstep Girl

holy ****, just put the Brimar 5R4GY and 6DE7 into my WA6-SE and the PS1000 came to life!!! this is by far the tubiest combination possible for the WA6-SE, its too slow and tubey for any of my other headphones, but the PS1000s seem to love it! 
   
  the bass filled up, and the brightness and treble grain is all gone! they sound like RS1i now, but with better soundstage! looks like the PS1000 definitely need a really colored amp to sound their best. i'll have to test them out on WA2 with TS7236 later...
   
  these just might end up being keepers


----------



## Silent One

We're pulling for 'em!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

5R4G brimar is a lovely tube, just like many tubes here you just need to get the synergy right, espcially with rectifiers. I always think we need to pay more attention to the %voltage drop on each of these types rather than rolling them in like we all do currently. The voltage drops vary considerably.


----------



## longbowbbs

DG, Another great example of "It's all about the chain"  Keep the impressions coming!


----------



## rnadell

How would this combo work with the HD800's. I really like the 800's but I can't 
  deal with the highs most of the time. 
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> holy ****, just put the Brimar 5R4GY and 6DE7 into my WA6-SE and the PS1000 came to life!!! this is by far the tubiest combination possible for the WA6-SE, its too slow and tubey for any of my other headphones, but the PS1000s seem to love it!
> 
> the bass filled up, and the brightness and treble grain is all gone! they sound like RS1i now, but with better soundstage! looks like the PS1000 definitely need a really colored amp to sound their best. i'll have to test them out on WA2 with TS7236 later...
> 
> these just might end up being keepers


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> holy ****, just put the Brimar 5R4GY and 6DE7 into my WA6-SE and the PS1000 came to life!!! this is by far the tubiest combination possible for the WA6-SE, its too slow and tubey for any of my other headphones, but the PS1000s seem to love it!
> 
> the bass filled up, and the brightness and treble grain is all gone! they sound like RS1i now, but with better soundstage! looks like the PS1000 definitely need a really colored amp to sound their best. i'll have to test them out on WA2 with TS7236 later...
> 
> these just might end up being keepers


 
   
  Please let us know regarding the WA2, I could be in the market for another (high-end) headphone.  Possibly T-1's and/ or ...?


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





nic rhodes said:


> 5R4G brimar is a lovely tube, just like many tubes here you just need to get the synergy right, espcially with rectifiers. I always think we need to pay more attention to the %voltage drop on each of these types rather than rolling them in like we all do currently. The voltage drops vary considerably.


 

 X2, totally agree!  As well as the degree of matched and balanced plate sections along with the mu conductance levels.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ru4music said:


> Please let us know regarding the WA2, I could be in the market for another (high-end) headphone.  Possibly T-1's and/ or ...?


 
   
   PS1000 doesn't have as much volume range on WA2 due to the impedance issues (though the WA2 does ok depending on the tubes you use). ill have to listen more later, but the T1/WA2 combo should be a no brainer, i think all WA2 owners should try and at least listen to the T1/WA2 combo at least once.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rnadell said:


> How would this combo work with the HD800's. I really like the 800's but I can't
> deal with the highs most of the time.


 
   
  sounds really good, the Brimar 5R4GY has great transparency, soundstage, and imaging, it doesn't veil anything, though the sound will be much more laid back and thicker than what you might be used to with the WA6-SE. its a colored sound for sure, i like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you do lose a tiny bit of details though in the highs, the sound will more like an HD 650 or a hifiman kinda sound rather than a HD 800 sound. nice thing is you would be able to listen to just about anything with HD 800, this combo has some pretty nice bass, very full sounding, the sound is a little slow and thick, but since the HD 800 (and especially the PS1000) are already quite fast and or aggressive, it works well. 
   
  its worth trying out if you have some extra money, the 6DE7 are very cheap and the brimar can be bought on ebay for like $50-70 usually. gotta make sure you are after this kinda sound though, since not everyone will like a tubier presentation. the Brimar 5R4GY is quite lush and laid back, even more than the Philips 5R4GY and the Mullard GZ37. its quite good if you're used to an LCD-2/HD 650 kinda sound and find the HD 800 too cold or bright.


----------



## rnadell

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> sounds really good, the Brimar 5R4GY has great transparency, soundstage, and imaging, it doesn't veil anything, though the sound will be much more laid back and thicker than what you might be used to with the WA6-SE. its a colored sound for sure, i like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks as always for the in depth accounting.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> sounds really good, the Brimar 5R4GY has great transparency, soundstage, and imaging, it doesn't veil anything, though the sound will be much more laid back and thicker than what you might be used to with the WA6-SE. its a colored sound for sure, i like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, the Brimar is a great rectifier. I have a pair that I use in my WA5-LE and before the 596 they were a close second to my EML 5U4G Mesh.


----------



## xevman

Should i be using the high gain or low gain switch on my WA6? This is with a pair of HD600s


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





xevman said:


> Should i be using the high gain or low gain switch on my WA6? This is with a pair of HD600s


 
  high gain


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





xevman said:


> Should i be using the high gain or low gain switch on my WA6? This is with a pair of HD600s


 
  Whichever position sounds better.  On my WA22 I use high gain for both my HD650s and HD800s, but, as ever, YMMV.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Just a heads up that I listed my WA22 and premium tubes on the for sale forum for $1,575 including shipping (within US). I have loved this amp for the year and a half since I bought it new from Woo Audio. I am reluctantly deciding to sell it to invest more in my electric guitar rig since I have been playing a lot and extra spending cash is slow to come by these days.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/651839/woo-audio-wa22-w-premium-tubes
   
  Hope everyone has been well. It's been awhile since I have posted on here.


----------



## jc9394

Paging DG, your WA22 is calling.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Paging DG, your WA22 is calling.


----------



## magiccabbage

great deal for sure


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Sid-Fi

Sold. Apparently someone was waiting for one to pop up. I'm sure ill be back soon to babble about missing it. I'm thinking about a Yulong DA8 next but am not sure. I basically want to do a combo unit around a grand that will be a step down but still good. Ill keep the woosies updated.



sid-fi said:


> Just a heads up that I listed my WA22 and premium tubes on the for sale forum for $1,575 including shipping (within US). I have loved this amp for the year and a half since I bought it new from Woo Audio. I am reluctantly deciding to sell it to invest more in my electric guitar rig since I have been playing a lot and extra spending cash is slow to come by these days.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/651839/woo-audio-wa22-w-premium-tubes
> 
> Hope everyone has been well. It's been awhile since I have posted on here.


----------



## jc9394

Is it sold to DG?


----------



## Silent One

Congrats.... that was quick, Sid-Fi!


----------



## Sid-Fi

No it was someone else. I hope DG wasn't seriously looking right now. I always remembered DG was interested in one but didn't want to let go of the WA6SE or WA2.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks SO. I listed it for $1,675 last time before I changed my mind, but had to deal with a ton if PMs wanting to debate it's value etc. I decided it if I was ever serious about moving it I would price it a tad lower and skip all of that with a quick sale. Even though I gave it up for a great price with my tubes included, its hard to say I didn't get my money's worth after resale value in the year and a half I enjoyed it so much. 



silent one said:


> Congrats.... that was quick, Sid-Fi!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

aww i missed it, i was sleeping


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> aww i missed it, i was sleeping


 
  thats what happens when you sleep. you will know for the next time.......


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thats what happens when you sleep. you will know for the next time.......


 
   
  i always end up missing good sales, i remember i missed that GSX MK2 that popped up a few weeks ago as well, as well as the occasional WA22 that comes up. either they sell way too fast, or i don't have the money at the time to get it when they do come up


----------



## magiccabbage

not to worry. I am gonna keep saving and wait for a WA5 to pop up. Would be nice with tubes included.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> not to worry. I am gonna keep saving and wait for a WA5 to pop up. Would be nice with tubes included.


 
   
  We'll likely be bidding against each other 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




unless we communicate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, if it's silver you're safe!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i always end up missing good sales, i remember i missed that GSX MK2 that popped up a few weeks ago as well, as well as the occasional WA22 that comes up. either they sell way too fast, or i don't have the money at the time to get it when they do come up


 
   
  As a courtesy, I usually screen my stuff privately with those member that were or might be interested before I list.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> We'll likely be bidding against each other
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  thats good news because i like the silver look. you will have the upper hand anyway, i mean who wants to ship to Ireland?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  heh heh...Erin go Woo?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thats good news because i like the silver look. you will have the upper hand anyway, i mean who wants to ship to Ireland?


 
   
  Respectfully, the only upper-hand I have is for lifting sofa cushions and moving furniture.._. "Now, _



_where did I put that wallet?!" _Wouldn't it be great if you picked up a pre-owned WA5 in the UK?


----------



## Sid-Fi

Wow, both my WA22 and Schiit Gungnir sold and cleared payment today after listing them mid-morning. That was easy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Wow, both my WA22 and Schiit Gungnir sold and cleared payment today after listing them mid-morning. That was easy.


 
   





 You want fast?! A few moons back, I wanted to sell my D5000. Before listing them on HF, I decided to send off three PMs the night before. In under 5 minutes before I could send member three his PM, the second member took 'em! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I simply went to the kitchen for an ice-cold glass of milk between the buyer's PM and member number three.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's because it was a commemorative SO edition!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That's because it was a commemorative SO edition!


 
   
  I strive to be modest... and silent. Letting the music raise all the sand and bring the noise!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That's because it was a commemorative SO edition!


 
   
  Let's hope that is not a truly SO edition...


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Sold. Apparently someone was waiting for one to pop up. I'm sure ill be back soon to babble about missing it. I'm thinking about a Yulong DA8 next but am not sure. I basically want to do a combo unit around a grand that will be a step down but still good. Ill keep the woosies updated.


 
  Then you want a WA7!  It is a serious combo amp for $999.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let's hope that is not a truly SO edition...


 





 You and me both! I'm trying to move up...


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You and me both! I'm trying to move up...


 
   
  How that STAX coming along?  I will pickup some tea from LA Chinatown on my way to your house.  It is not a good idea to fly with dried green leafs.


----------



## scolaiw

I hear herbal is good for glaucoma?

You could probably ask the tea-fi thread.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How that STAX coming along?  I will pickup some tea from LA Chinatown on my way to your house.  It is not a good idea to fly with dried green leafs.


 
   
  Shouldn't the TSA strive to improve public relations? Here's your _chance. _





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Barring any delays with Customs, the Silver Interconnects should arrive from Shindo by no later than 14 Sept. The Stax perhaps, by 21 Sept.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Shouldn't the TSA strive to improve public relations? Here's your _chance. _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The amount of travel I do yearly, I don't want them to put me in the blacklist.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Mayber I should look into that option more seriously. I have to confess I haven't really assumed the built in DAC would be that good despite knowing that it is getting really good reviews. I assumed the amp was probably really good with a "pretty good for a through-in" DAC. I welcome any comments if I'm totally offbase here.  


galaxyguy said:


> Then you want a WA7!  It is a serious combo amp for $999.


----------



## jc9394

Step down to WA7 from WA22? I recommend WA6SE instead.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That would be the Simon and Garfunkel edition...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That would be the Simon and Garfunkel edition...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The amount of travel I do yearly, I don't want them to put me in the blacklist.


 
   
  True, you'd be late for everything! Additionally, I can no longer afford a dedicated audio rack with built-in isolation features. And know nuthin' 'bout the WEE - does it vibrate, if so, how much? Or can I put in the closet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on the network with remote access?!


----------



## GrindingThud

I think I've rolled myself into a tizzy. 
After trying hard to settle on a set of drivers, I find myself wanting to keep listening to a different set and then when I roll them in.....I want the old ones back, and the vicious cycle repeats. Of the handful of my 'best' sets, I seem to not be able to decide......


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> I think I've rolled myself into a tizzy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have a simple suggestion - could be made simpler still but, it's dinner time - you could put more space in between the goal post. And allow yourself at least 21 days with each, instead of 21 minutes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope that helps!


----------



## GrindingThud

Indeed, thanks... 



silent one said:


> I have a simple suggestion - could be made simpler still but, it's dinner time - you could put more space in between the goal post. And allow yourself at least 21 days with each, instead of 21 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


>


 
  thats funny - i am just listening to them now. Man they are great, never gets old


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  They have some of the best harmonies ever.


----------



## Silent One

I'm so happy for y'all.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Step down to WA7 from WA22? I recommend WA6SE instead.


 
  The WA6SE is not a combo amp, so he would still need a DAC, which would put him well above his budget.  I've listened to the WA7 and WA6SE side by side and I think the WA7 holds its own quite well.  I don't think that the WA7 is all that much of a sacrifice, but, as ever, YMMV.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> Mayber I should look into that option more seriously. I have to confess I haven't really assumed the built in DAC would be that good despite knowing that it is getting really good reviews. I assumed the amp was probably really good with a "pretty good for a through-in" DAC. I welcome any comments if I'm totally offbase here.


 
  There has been a recent discussion of this on the WA7 thread.  You might check it out, Sid.  Others have said that you need to put some serious dollars into your DAC before you can hear the difference from the built in DAC that the WA7 comes with.  I haven't tried this out myself, but I am pretty happy with the WA7/TH900 combo.


----------



## atomicbob

galaxyguy said:


> The WA6SE is not a combo amp, so he would still need a DAC, which would put him well above his budget.  I've listened to the WA7 and WA6SE side by side and I think the WA7 holds its own quite well.  I don't think that the WA7 is all that much of a sacrifice, but, as ever, YMMV.



+1. WA7 is a tremendous bargain in the Woo lineup. Have a number of cans and amps in the collection and yet spend more time with T90 + WA7 for recreational listening tha all the others combined.


----------



## xevman

will my dacmagic 100 -> Woo Audio WA6 do the T1 justice? i'm about to bite the bullet on the T1 but I dont want to spend 10+ bills on a headphone to find it sounds like garbage with my setup.... I'm using the Sophia Princess and 6FD7s


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Might be a little lean on the bass, some1 pmed me about this not too long and they werent impressed with t1/800 and wa6. That 1400 ohm impedance at the midbass really needs a more powerful amp or an otl that can deliver the big voltage swings the t1 needs to really bring out the bass as well as dynamics and warmth


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm so happy for y'all.


 
  hey silent did you get a chance to use the woo converter yet?


----------



## jc9394

Hey DG, I knew you just graduated but you really should hide what you like.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
Beyerdynamic T1  //  Fostex TH-900  //  ​*Audeze LSD-3 *​ // Sennheiser HD 800  //  HifiGirl HE-500  //  Grado PS1000​


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *magiccabbage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> hey silent did you get a chance to use the woo converter yet?


 
   
  The check purchase is in the mail.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 7 days for the WEE, 30 days for the Stax..._WooAudio_ is simply going to ship them out together.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The check purchase is in the mail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  May I hand deliver to you personally?  WooAudio is only 3 hours away, I can probably make it in 2 hours if I leave around 2AM.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> May I hand deliver to you personally?  WooAudio is only 3 hours away, I can probably make it in 2 hours if I leave around 2AM.


 
   
  Better still, you could break that combo in for me!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Better still, you could break that combo in for me!


 
  No, I can't.  You will need to unwrap that baby blue box yourself.


----------



## Sid-Fi

LOL  


jc9394 said:


> Hey DG, I knew you just graduated but you really should hide what you like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





sid-fi said:


> LOL


----------



## Ultrainferno

I wonder if everyone will understand the post above by DG


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I wonder if everyone will understand the post above by DG


 
  It was very clever!


----------



## van41

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 
  Will a LCD3 talk to me if I took one of those?


----------



## magiccabbage

anyone know if the woo WA5 would be a good pairing for the Klipsch RF-7 11? Just thinking about the future


----------



## rnadell

Using the 6gl7's and Sophia how much noise should there be? Tubes are 
  from Woo and are new. I am using wa6se and T'1's. Thanks


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Anyone out there using a WA5 with Zu Audio speakers?  I'm starting to save my pennies for a better speaker system, and was thinking about this combo as a possibility.


----------



## jc9394

Zu works great with WA5.


----------



## X-Ravin

Got my WA7 in last night and WOW is this thing amazing.  The build quality would leave Steve Jobs speechless, yes it's that good!  The shipping weight is 14lbs, that alone should tell part of the story.  No corners were cut, or as John Hammond might say: Spared no expense.  It will be hard to upgrade someday, if I so choose, because I've seen few other designs that look this good.
   
  Luckily I don't think I'll need or want to upgrade for a long while.  I haven't had much time to listen, I've been sick this week, but what little I have heard has been excellent.  It has really made my HD800s sound fun while still retaining that huge soundstage and hyper-detailism that makes the HD800s...well, HD800s.  But now I don't have piercing siblance, or those moments of aural flinching when some poorly recorded treble spike comes slashing into my ear drums.  The coldness of the HD800 is warmed just enough to make them extremely fun, but not so much to cause harm to the sound they were made for.
   
  If I had to make a complaint, about the only thing I would suggest is that the glass block have some sort of metal lip it fell into so that it was secured from sliding around the top.  I mean, that block of glass isn't going anywhere, but it will shift around a little when you are wiping your fingerprints off of it, and your OCD will kick in trying to center it back on the amp.  I suppose too, that some will be put off by the fake LED tube glow and the USB powered DAC, but neither of these things bothered me.  The sound quality will speak for itself.


----------



## atomicbob

Quote: 





x-ravin said:


> Got my WA7 in last night and WOW is this thing amazing. <edit> The sound quality will speak for itself.


 
  Congrats on the new Woo! The WA7 is amazing. I have heard many high end rigs now at local meets and the WA7 holds its own. At this level the various head amps sound different, but not necessarily better. I will soon have a Zana Deux SE, which I also heard at a meet. It has a different sound that I like, but it won't displace my WA7, nor even my WA3+. They each have their place in the collection.


----------



## X-Ravin

Quote: 





atomicbob said:


> Congrats on the new Woo! The WA7 is amazing. I have heard many high end rigs now at local meets and the WA7 holds its own. At this level the various head amps sound different, but not necessarily better. I will soon have a Zana Deux SE, which I also heard at a meet. It has a different sound that I like, but it won't displace my WA7, nor even my WA3+. They each have their place in the collection.


 
   
  Indeed.  My favorite thing about the WA7 is that you really feel you got every penny worth of value from your money.  The same cannot be said about all equipment, even at that price point.  But yeah I was dead set on a Schiit Bifrost/Lyr stack for a long time until I came across the WA7.  Very happy with my decision, although I won't turn down an audition with the Schiit stack and my HD800s if the opportunity ever arises.  Really need my ears to unplug from this congestion now


----------



## Sid-Fi

Are your impressions based on using it as a USB DAC and amp or are you using a separate DAC?
  Quote: 





x-ravin said:


> Indeed.  My favorite thing about the WA7 is that you really feel you got every penny worth of value from your money.  The same cannot be said about all equipment, even at that price point.  But yeah I was dead set on a Schiit Bifrost/Lyr stack for a long time until I came across the WA7.  Very happy with my decision, although I won't turn down an audition with the Schiit stack and my HD800s if the opportunity ever arises.  Really need my ears to unplug from this congestion now


----------



## X-Ravin

USB. I'd like to try it with a different DAC at some point to see if the DAC is a weak link but all I have on hand at the moment is the CLAS SOLO db. My initial stuffy ear impression is that it's a pretty good DAC. But again have had minimal time with it and the tube amp is such a change from the coldness of a solid state amp with 800s that I'm not sure what is DAC and what is amp yet.


----------



## moriez

Tube questions. Someone made me the price of €75 (roughly $99) for 2 x 6dj8 Bugle Boys plus a replacement Siemens 6922 including shipping. It is listed as NOS but he doesn't have a tester or any values on them. As I see many different prices and different types of these Bugle Boys on Ebay I am uncertain what to do. Is it an ok price that he is charging or should I look elsewhere? Elsewhere would be where? Does anybody know a good European source for tubes?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

seems like a pretty fair price.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





x-ravin said:


> USB. I'd like to try it with a different DAC at some point to see if the DAC is a weak link but all I have on hand at the moment is the CLAS SOLO db. My initial stuffy ear impression is that it's a pretty good DAC. But again have had minimal time with it and the tube amp is such a change from the coldness of a solid state amp with 800s that I'm not sure what is DAC and what is amp yet.


 
   
  Definitely do so, it most certainly is a better amp than the price suggests by a long margin.


----------



## Calle

Hi,
   
  I bought a WES a little under a year ago plus a pair of Stax SR-009. I bought it with the stock tubes plus the upgraded ones. I have never tried anything else, so now I want to do some tube rolling. I know I could read all the replies but it is impossible for me to read all of them without giving myself a headache.
   
  I am after tubes that sound romantic, and soft on the ears, preferably a warm sound.
   
  Cost is not a problem. If you recommend some of the higher priced ones, I won´t be discouraged.
   
  Please do help me on the matter. I know a lot of you guys know  tons more than I do.
   
  Thanks for your time
  Christian


----------



## GrindingThud

@DG = http://www.head-fi.org/t/679846/woo-audio-wa5-le.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> @DG = http://www.head-fi.org/t/679846/woo-audio-wa5-le.


 
  I bet she is asleep or maybe at work


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I bet she is asleep or maybe at work


 
  It's 4:05pm in chicago


----------



## longbowbbs

Yeah, but She was up at 4:00 AM this morning posting on Head-Fi....I couldn't sleep either.....Nap time!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> It's 4:05pm in chicago


 
  I also said maybe she's in work


----------



## Eee Pee

No one works on Labor Day!
   
  Except for the few suckers...


----------



## longbowbbs

I am glad some folks were at work today at my favorite Pizza joint. The place was packed!


----------



## rnadell

I see a lot of happiness here with the woo owners and that is part of what prompted 
  me to purchase a WA6se. I purchased at the San Francisco show with stock tubes
  and listened quite a bit there on there source. At that time I purchased the 6gl7's and 
  the Sophia to have delivered at a later date. During that waiting period I purchased 
  the gz34 mullard, 6ew7, 6fd7's and they all pretty much arrived at the same time. To 
  make a long story short there is not one set of tubes in different combos that doesn't 
  make noise above half volume,12o'clock. Is this the case with woo amps  and if so is
  everyone just satisfied to have it this way? I have had tube amp and preamp in my system
  for 25+years and never had to listen to this much noise. If I sound ticked it is because 
  I am, hoping you folks can offer some info to calm me down. Thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i was sleeping lol. (went to bed around 10AM)
   
  looks like the threads gone too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





rnadell said:


> I see a lot of happiness here with the woo owners and that is part of what prompted
> me to purchase a WA6se. I purchased at the San Francisco show with stock tubes
> and listened quite a bit there on there source. At that time I purchased the 6gl7's and
> the Sophia to have delivered at a later date. During that waiting period I purchased
> ...


 
   
  the WA6-SE is kinda a noisy amp, but the noise, if its mostly starting at 12 o clock, it shouldn't be a problem, since no headphones i have ever have to be turned up that loud. theres just alot of gain on the WA6-SE. 
   
  for me, thats around where the noise starts, but its dead silent at the volume ranges i would be listening at. and when musics playing i don't hear it either.
   
  the WA2 on the other hand, is completely silent, zero noise everywhere.


----------



## BournePerfect

Just purchased a WA5-LE from the boards-can't wait to finally own one of the beauties! I'll post a pic of it when my Leviathan arrives. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grats!!!


----------



## xevman

how do the k70x sound with woo amps? like the wa6, wa6se and wa22 (transformer coupled)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the K701 (new version) was VERY good with WA6-SE. neutral yet slightly warm in the mids, good bass, wide soundstage, quite detailed.
   
  powered them very well, they require quite a bit of power to sound good. i remember turning the knob up on them as much as i would for 600 ohm beyers or planars.


----------



## xevman

dubstep girl said:


> the K701 (new version) was VERY good with WA6-SE. neutral yet slightly warm in the mids, good bass, wide soundstage, quite detailed.
> 
> powered them very well, they require quite a bit of power to sound good. i remember turning the knob up on them as much as i would for 600 ohm beyers or planars.




I'm tempted just to buy a pair to try them out, hopefully a WA6 will have the power for them, i usually only turn my volume knob to 12 o'clock max on my pair of HD600s for very quiet recordings.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

u should be fine, though do expect a lusher slightly darker sound. the WA6-SE will have more dynamics


----------



## xevman

dubstep girl said:


> u should be fine, though do expect a lusher slightly darker sound. the WA6-SE will have more dynamics




yeah that should be fine as many people seem to describe the k70x phones as bright and somewhat fatiguing so it should pair well


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i used 6EW7 and Sophia 274B for it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Just purchased a WA5-LE from the boards-can't wait to finally own one of the beauties! I'll post a pic of it when my Leviathan arrives.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice! Quick on the draw as always..


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





rnadell said:


> I see a lot of happiness here with the woo owners and that is part of what prompted
> me to purchase a WA6se. I purchased at the San Francisco show with stock tubes
> and listened quite a bit there on there source. At that time I purchased the 6gl7's and
> the Sophia to have delivered at a later date. During that waiting period I purchased
> ...


 
  Sorry for the problems.  My WA6 is dead silent at any setting.  Occasionally, I've had mine up to one o'clock with the DT880/600, still quiet.  Is this with the Sophia as well?


----------



## atomicbob

rnadell said:


> I see a lot of happiness here with the woo owners and that is part of what prompted
> me to purchase a WA6se. I purchased at the San Francisco show with stock tubes
> and listened quite a bit there on there source. At that time I purchased the 6gl7's and
> the Sophia to have delivered at a later date. During that waiting period I purchased
> ...



If you need to turn the volume knob above 12:00 you may have insufficient drive voltage from your source. Is it possible to increase the source drive and see if that helps? Is the noise a hum (mains), a hiss or mechanical / electronic sound?


----------



## rnadell

bbophead said:


> Sorry for the problems.  My WA6 is dead silent at any setting.  Occasionally, I've had mine up to one o'clock with the DT880/600, still quiet.  Is this with the Sophia as well?


 
 I think the wa6 is a different situation. I wrote to Simon at Woo and he said the same thing as Dubstep Girl, No noise until 12 o'clock and I suppose that is fine  depending on the source you are using. I am using a phono preamp and a turntable. There is a lot more output from a digital source. I am new to the headphone game and I guess this is just part of the learning curve. I find it interesting that a product can be marketed with this issue being the headphones are so sensitive. Especially the likes of  t1's , lcd3's etc. By the way can someone tell me how the t1's would work with the wa2 since it is quiet. Thanks, oh I am using the sophia.


----------



## rnadell

atomicbob said:


> If you need to turn the volume knob above 12:00 you may have insufficient drive voltage from your source. Is it possible to increase the source drive and see if that helps? Is the noise a hum (mains), a hiss or mechanical / electronic sound?


 
 I just noticed this response, thanks. I am using a phono preamp that has limited output.
 Turning the volume to 12 o'clock depends on the power tubes I use, the 6gl7's are really 
 noisy  and I don't have to turn it up  past 10 o'clock. I think this is something I will have to 
 work with to solve. Whether or not I can solve it to my satisfaction remains to be seen. 
 I cannot seem to accept the idea that a amp of this caliber should be noisy. Had I known
 ahead of time I would not of purchased it. Thanks


----------



## GrindingThud

Is this noise present with the inputs disconnected? I thought the WA6/SE volume potentiometer is before the gain stage......



rnadell said:


> I just noticed this response, thanks. I am using a phono preamp that has limited output.
> Turning the volume to 12 o'clock depends on the power tubes I use, the 6gl7's are really
> noisy  and I don't have to turn it up  past 10 o'clock. I think this is something I will have to
> work with to solve. Whether or not I can solve it to my satisfaction remains to be seen.
> ...


----------



## rnadell

grindingthud said:


> Is this noise present with the inputs disconnected? I thought the WA6/SE volume potentiometer is before the gain stage......


 
 I have a gain pot on my phono pre, the noise is present with the gain turned all the way down. 
  
 I thought of using shorting plugs but I didn't because I didn't know if it would cause a problem.


----------



## atomicbob

rnadell said:


> I have a gain pot on my phono pre, the noise is present with the gain turned all the way down.
> 
> I thought of using shorting plugs but I didn't because I didn't know if it would cause a problem.



Shorting plugs on the input will be no problem. Just don't short the output of any device.


----------



## jc9394

Revisited the EML 274B... was up til 4AM.


----------



## longbowbbs

Sweet tubes JC!


----------



## Clayton SF

After 1000 hours of usage, my EML 5U4G has died. Boo hoo.


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> After 1000 hours of usage, my EML 5U4G has died. Boo hoo.


 
 That was a sweet .27 cents per hour!


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> After 1000 hours of usage, my EML 5U4G has died. Boo hoo.


 






 not good. you buy used?


----------



## Frank I

clayton sf said:


> After 1000 hours of usage, my EML 5U4G has died. Boo hoo.


 
 I love the RCA 5U4 G and they are  not expensive. They have bass to spare and sound excellent in my amp. I really have stopped rolling as I am pretty happy with those rectifiers/


----------



## jc9394

Frank, you need to roll like DG and SO...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Frank, you need to roll like DG and SO...


 
  
 +1
  
 seeing those pics of WA22 makes me want to buy one.  after my GSX arrives,  i think i'll be putting WA6-SE for sale and keeping WA2, or maybe looking at something else. something that is perfect with beyerdynamic T1 as well.


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Frank, you need to roll like DG and SO...


 
 LOL. Quite happy with the setup I have and in the past when I owned a Cat sl1MK 11 and CJ 11a I stood with the same combos for 9 yrs without rolling. I did that  in the beggining and have the combos I like in there now so less hassle. I just did the same in the Dared 2A3 a, I changed the 12ax7 and the 12 au7 and theya re now in there funtilm they need replacing. 
  
 I will be up at Franklin Park on 9/27 for the cross country track meet. Is that near BU? I am trying to see where I should stay. I usually stay at the Marriott in newton.
  
 Bummer about Clayton 5U4G and especially for that price.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> seeing those pics of WA22 makes me want to buy one.  after my GSX arrives,  i think i'll be putting WA6-SE for sale and keeping WA2, or maybe looking at something else. something that is perfect with beyerdynamic T1 as well.




Woah, is that the new MKII? I'm tempted to sell my beta and get the GSX MKII...


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> LOL. Quite happy with the setup I have and in the past when I owned a Cat sl1MK 11 and CJ 11a I stood with the same combos for 9 yrs without rolling. I did that  in the beggining and have the combos I like in there now so less hassle. I just did the same in the Dared 2A3 a, I changed the 12ax7 and the 12 au7 and theya re now in there funtilm they need replacing.
> 
> I will be up at Franklin Park on 9/27 for the cross country track meet. Is that near BU? I am trying to see where I should stay. I usually stay at the Marriott in newton.
> 
> Bummer about Clayton 5U4G and especially for that price.




Frankin Park Zoo? It is around 25-30 minutes to BU no traffic, with traffic it is usually around an hour to two. Try to stay at Copley area, much more things to do and street photography with your X100s...


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Frankin Park Zoo? It is around 25-30 minutes to BU no traffic, with traffic it is usually around an hour to two. Try to stay at Copley area, much more things to do and street photography with your X100s...


 
 The Park. There is Boston University Invitational. I will have both cameras as I need to use the 55-300MM lens for the race.   I will probably stay close to the meet.  I am up Thursday and leaving Saturday morning. Unfortunately I wont be able to spend a lot of time in town.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Woah, is that the new MKII? I'm tempted to sell my beta and get the GSX MKII...


 
  
 yah


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> The Park. There is Boston University Invitational. I will have both cameras as I need to use the 55-300MM lens for the race.   I will probably stay close to the meet.  I am up Thursday and leaving Saturday morning. Unfortunately I wont be able to spend a lot of time in town.




There are plenty area around BU to kill your camera's shutter, try walk across the BU bridge to Cambridge. There is a old railroad bridge right underneath the BU bridge, hot photo spot and the sunset/sunrise on the Charles Basin. 10-15 walk from BU to Mass Ave bridge, nice Boston skyline if you are shooting from Cambridge side. Behind you is MIT...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yah




How long is the wait now? Justin does really good work but waiting time usually kills me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> How long is the wait now? Justin does really good work but waiting time usually kills me.


 
  
 got the one that was FT on the forums, i should get it early next week


----------



## jc9394

Nice, damn work makes me missed it... :mad: Chicago here I come... Need to order ticket..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Nice, damn work makes me missed it...


 
  
 better than missing cause of sleeping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 after i see how GSX turns out, i have to decide what will be my endgame tube amp. hopefully a woo so i dont have to buy tubes. or if its another brand, it would be cheaper cause all the tubes from the woos would be quite a bit of money


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> There are plenty area around BU to kill your camera's shutter, try walk across the BU bridge to Cambridge. There is a old railroad bridge right underneath the BU bridge, hot photo spot and the sunset/sunrise on the Charles Basin. 10-15 walk from BU to Mass Ave bridge, nice Boston skyline if you are shooting from Cambridge side. Behind you is MIT...


 
 I just checked the race starts a 3:30. I will see what I can shot while I am there.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> better than missing cause of sleeping
> 
> after i see how GSX turns out, i have to decide what will be my endgame tube amp. hopefully a woo so i dont have to buy tubes. or if its another brand, it would be cheaper cause all the tubes from the woos would be quite a bit of money




I'm inviting myself to your place...


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> I just checked the race starts a 3:30. I will see what I can shot while I am there.




Good luck with your race.


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> not good. you buy used?


 
 I bought it used but I forgot how many hours it had on it when I got it. I think it didn't have much.


----------



## BournePerfect

How long do 5U4Gs generally last? 3-5k hours? More? What about 300Bs?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Good luck with your race.


 
    Thank you its my daughters race. She races for Cornell. Should be an exciting time.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Thank you its my daughters race. She races for Cornell. Should be an exciting time.


 
  
 What distance does she do? My dad brother and used to run a lot.


----------



## Frank I

bourneperfect said:


> How long do 5U4Gs generally last? 3-5k hours? More? What about 300Bs?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Rectifiers should last a minimum of 10000 hours.  I heard stories of them lasting for years. Sad that a 260.00 rectifier last 1000 hours.  I used the Sylvania 5U4G on my Taboo amps for over two years and they played everyday for 8 hr s or more and they still test close to 100 percent.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Rectifiers should last a minimum of 10000 hours.  I heard stories of them lasting for years. SAad that a 260.00 rectifier last 1000 hours.  I used the Sylvania 5U4G on my Taboo amps for ove rtwo years and they played everyday for 8 hr s or more and they still test close to 100 percent.


 
  
 That is alot of listening


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> That is alot of listening


 
  
 I am retired so I have nothing to do but listen. LOL


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> What distance does she do? My dad brother and used to run a lot.


 
  
 She races 5 and 6K cross country. 5K indoor and 5 and 10K outdoor. The further the better.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Frank, you need to roll like DG and SO...


 
  






 No rollin' here. The Cargo vessel coming in from Tokyo is moving very _s-l-o-w-l-y._


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> No rollin' here. The Cargo vessel coming in from Tokyo is moving very _s-l-o-w-l-y._


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> No rollin' here. The Cargo vessel coming in from Tokyo is moving very _s-l-o-w-l-y._


 
  
 What??? let's go for a road trip to pick it up.


----------



## musicman59

dubstep girl said:


> better than missing cause of sleeping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You should get a WA5


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> You should get a WA5


 
  
 Totally agreed, I'm still thinking selling both of my WA22 and beta22 to fund the WA5...


----------



## BournePerfect

musicman59 said:


> You should get a WA5


 
  
 I've got one arriving tomorrow with the tube upgrades. What tubes do you feel mates the best with the HD800 IYE?
  


jc9394 said:


> Totally agreed, I'm still thinking selling both of my WA22 and beta22 to fund the WA5...


 
  
 Wait a couple of months til my Levi arrives-I have a feeling I will be parting with my WA5-LE at that time...or not. Something tells me they will actually complement each other really well, and I doubt I'll be able to sell such a beauty.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jc9394

bourneperfect said:


> I've got one arriving tomorrow with the tube upgrades. What tubes do you feel mates the best with the HD800 IYE?
> 
> 
> Wait a couple of months til my Levi arrives-I have a feeling I will be parting with my WA5-LE at that time...or not. Something tells me they will actually complement each other really well, and I doubt I'll be able to sell such a beauty.
> ...


 
  
 I'm only looking for WA5, not the LE version.  I'm planning to use it to power the Zu Audio Omen.


----------



## BournePerfect

What efficiency are those ZUs? I'm looking for something to pair with the Levi down the line-leaning toward someh igh efficiency Decwares atm...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jc9394

The Omen Def I'm look at is Efficiency: 100 dB SPL 1W, 1m​


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice-I happen to know there are a LOT of happy Decware/Zu owners on the Decware boards. Sounds like I have another option to read about.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Only thing against wa5 is the double rectifiers and the 300b which i wont be able to really tube roll


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Only thing against wa5 is the double rectifiers and the 300b which i wont be able to really tube roll




Not too worry about the rectifiers, the 300B will be expensive to roll. I know for sure I want EAT and EML to roll.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Only thing against wa5 is the double rectifiers and the 300b which i wont be able to really tube roll


 
  
 Why


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> What??? let's go for a road trip to pick it up.


 
  
 Lesson 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 learned. But next year 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we'll simply take a 10 day trip to Japan - with Tokyo as our base - and return Stateside not only with some goodies, but "Schedule C" entries
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to boot!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Why


 
  
  
 i have a ton of rectifiers, but all of them are singles, if i get the WA22, i already have most of the power tubes, most of the rectifiers, and most of the 6F8G, just would buy 1 or 2 6SN7 to try out but basically i'm all ready as far as tubes go.
  
 if i get WA5.
  
 i have to sell all my power tubes, and buy doubles of rectifiers, or ideally, buy new pairs of the rectifiers and sell all my singles, as well as have to find double mighty 596s and still get 6SN7, as well as 300B which is more expensive and i won't really be able to tube roll, it'll probably be just EML and Sophia and thats basically it.
  
 if i go for stratus instead,
  
 its buy alot of 2A3, they're very expensive, there rare, and also buy 6N1P and 5U4G, theres not alot of 5U4G, and the 5AR4, GZ34, 596, 274B won't work cause of the way they're heated, so alot of my rectiifers won't work. the fact that i can't use the 596 really turns me away from it.
  
 if mr donald made the amp compatible with any kind of rectifier like the woo, as well as 6N23P (6922, 6DJ8) instead of the 6N1P, i would probably buy it. i like the 6922 tubes...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I'm only looking for WA5, not the LE version.  I'm planning to use it to power the Zu Audio Omen.


 
 Ooooo. I'm with you on this one.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Lesson :rolleyes:  learned. But next year :wink_face:  we'll simply take a 10 day trip to Japan - with Tokyo as our base - and return Stateside not only with some goodies, but "Schedule C" entries:evil: to boot!




Love it but we need to hit Osaka so I can expense some fancy dinner.


----------



## Frank I




----------



## MacedonianHero

frank i said:


>


 
  
 Beautiful Frank!


----------



## Frank I

Thanks Peter. I am very happy with this amplifier and tube compliment. I have the HE6 plugged in to the amp with the Moon Black Dragon.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i need to get that.
  
 did u get upgrades or not


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> i need to get that.
> 
> did u get upgrades or not


 
  
 nope I got it stock and it sounds great. No need to spend the extra money.  The amp really has been great. I rarely listen ot anything else and hav ednot wanted to buy any more amps since this arrived. All my headphones work well with it and the two planars thrive with the power. Speaker sound great too. I can even use the  IEM UE18 with this amp and it sounds excellent.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> nope I got it stock and it sounds great. No need to spend the extra money.  The amp really has been great. I rarely listen ot anything else and hav ednot wanted to buy any more amps since this arrived. All my headphones work well with it and the two planars thrive with the power. Speaker sound great too. I can even use the  IEM UE18 with this amp and it sounds excellent.


 
  
 but aren't you missing a perfectly black background, ultra transparency, dynamics, and perfect imaging for not giving jack $1210 for the upgrades which are "carefully selected audiophile grade parts intended to bring the ultimate performance out of the amplifier"?


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> but aren't you missing a perfectly black background, ultra transparency, dynamics, and perfect imaging for not giving jack $1210 for the upgrades which are "carefully selected audiophile grade parts intended to bring the ultimate performance out of the amplifier"?


 
  
 Nope. The amplifier sounds great as it is. The amp is black now and quiet. I have zero issues with hum or noise. I would rather have that money invested  for tubes which do make a difference. By the way the amp has all f the thing you mentioned stock.


----------



## BournePerfect

I can't seem to find the power rating on the WA5LE other than '1.5 watts'. Does anybody have some specifics about this?
  
 Great pics, Frank-mine will be here tomorrow!
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> I can't seem to find the power rating on the WA5LE other than '1.5 watts'. Does anybody have some specifics about this?
> 
> Great pics, Frank-mine will be here tomorrow!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
  
 This might help.


----------



## BournePerfect

YES! Thanks Peter!
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

bourneperfect said:


> I can't seem to find the power rating on the WA5LE other than '1.5 watts'. Does anybody have some specifics about this?
> 
> Great pics, Frank-mine will be here tomorrow!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Let us know what you think.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> YES! Thanks Peter!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 What colour did you get?


----------



## BournePerfect

Silver-I picked up ShellyH's Woo off the boards. Couldn't pass it up-it had been roughly two weeks since I bought a new amp lol. The fact that the WA5-LE is the only Woo that ever caught my eye made it an easy decision. 
  
 Yes Frank, I'll be posting lost of thoughts as I spend more time with it-mainly in comparison to the ZDSE as that's the amp I'm most familiar with, and it's also the only amp that I felt was 'great' with the HD800. Dying to try a T1 again as well. Also-the Leviathan is finally starting to come to fruition-so in a couple of months or so there should be some real fun comparisons to be had.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> Silver-I picked up ShellyH's Woo off the boards. Couldn't pass it up-it had been roughly two weeks since I bought a new amp lol. The fact that the WA5-LE is the only Woo that ever caught my eye made it an easy decision.
> 
> Yes Frank, I'll be posting lost of thoughts as I spend more time with it-mainly in comparison to the ZDSE as that's the amp I'm most familiar with, and it's also the only amp that I felt was 'great' with the HD800. Dying to try a T1 again as well. Also-the Leviathan is finally starting to come to fruition-so in a couple of months or so there should be some real fun comparisons to be had.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 I love silver Woos! (Owned 2 myself).


----------



## Frank I

I still have Beyer T1 here for the A20 review I will be doing next month.  I am sending it back when i am done though.


----------



## BournePerfect

How does it sound from the Woo-especially in comparison to the Senns?
  
 Yeah Peter, I generally like black over silver-but I always preferred the looks of the silver Woo...I'd bet Jack does too seeing as that's how they all appear on his product page, and most of his pics.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> I still have Beyer T1 here for the A20 review I will be doing next month.  I am sending it back when i am done though.


 
  
  
 keep T1, best headphone ever.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> keep T1, best headphone ever.


 
  
 Nah I owend it and sold it twice.  I do like it but I have all the headphones I can use for know. My upstair room is finished and need to be setup with gear my budget and will be done buying and selling unless something really knocks my sock off. I have  5  top tier headphones and IEM plus some portables as well. I cant use them all. LOL


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> Nah I owend it and sold it twice.  I do like it but I have all the headphones I can use for know. My upstair room is finished and need to be setup with gear my budget and will be done buying and selling unless something really knocks my sock off. I have  5  top tier headphones and IEM plus some portables as well. I cant use them all. LOL


 
  
 i'm pretty much done with headphones i think.
  
 only HE-6 to buy soon, maybe sell HE-500 if the HE-6 impresses me enough with electronic music and is forgiving enough in the treble.
  
 and maybe i'll add an RS1i back to the collection soon. i returned PS1000 yesterday, too bright and recessed mids for me.


----------



## Frank I

I did not like that Grado when I heard it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

frank i said:


> I did not like that Grado when I heard it.


 
  
 The PS1000 or RS1?


----------



## Frank I

ps1000


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> ps1000


 
  
 Then we are agreed.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

and me


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> i have a ton of rectifiers, but all of them are singles, if i get the WA22, i already have most of the power tubes, most of the rectifiers, and most of the 6F8G, just would buy 1 or 2 6SN7 to try out but basically i'm all ready as far as tubes go.
> 
> if i get WA5.
> 
> ...


 
  





 But don't forget, I got a pair of matched USAF-596/WooAudio adapters never been opened, for your 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




delight. I bought the kit for the WA5 but changed my mind and bought Shindo gear instead. So, this leaves me with extra glass...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Love it but we need to hit Osaka so I can expense some fancy dinner.


 
  
 Precisely my plan! I'm only suggesting the Metropolis as our base... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_we'll need to recover._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> But don't forget, I got a pair of matched USAF-596/WooAudio adapters never been opened, for your
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

frank i said:


>


 
 FRANK, that is one beautiful amp. Or I should say, those two chassis parts make one beautiful amp. Classy glass too!


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> FRANK, that is one beautiful amp. Or I should say, those two chassis parts make one beautiful amp. Classy glass too!


 
  
 +1 really really nice, its great to own a woo!


----------



## FangJoker

I'm new and this is probably the wrong place to ask, but if I get the WA3 with preamp and connect it to my computer (asus essence stx sound card)  how do I change between my powered 2.1 and headphones?  Looking to pair this with HD 650.  This is my first choice unless of course this isn't the way to set it up.  Sorry I'm new to amps/dacs/preamps hooked up to my computer.


----------



## GrindingThud

STX RCA out to WA3 in. WA3 RCA out to 2.1 in. WA3 preamp will drive your 2.1. Another way to do this would be to split the STX RCA out and keep both separate. 



vegasf1 said:


> I'm new and this is probably the wrong place to ask, but if I get the WA3 with preamp and connect it to my computer (asus essence stx sound card)  how do I change between my powered 2.1 and headphones?  Looking to pair this with HD 650.  This is my first choice unless of course this isn't the way to set it up.  Sorry I'm new to amps/dacs/preamps hooked up to my computer.


----------



## FangJoker

grindingthud said:


> STX RCA out to WA3 in. WA3 RCA out to 2.1 in. WA3 preamp will drive your 2.1. Another way to do this would be to split the STX RCA out and keep both separate.


 
  
 Thanks.  Splitting sounds better if I understand it right.  I would just adjust the volume on the klipsch 2.1 separately with the volume knob on the satellite speaker and I would adjust the headphone volume from the WA3 right?  If I split it then I could use any amp that way if I'm understanding correctly.


----------



## GrindingThud

Yes. 


vegasf1 said:


> Thanks.  Splitting sounds better if I understand it right.  I would just adjust the volume on the klipsch 2.1 separately with the volume knob on the satellite speaker and I would adjust the headphone volume from the WA3 right?  If I split it then I could use any amp that way if I'm understanding correctly.


----------



## Frank I

clayton sf said:


> FRANK, that is one beautiful amp. Or I should say, those two chassis parts make one beautiful amp. Classy glass too!


 
  
 Claytin thanks for the compliment. It is really sounding great.


----------



## kazsud

Anxious to see how bourneperfect compares the Wa5SE to the Zana Duex.


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> Anxious to see how bourneperfect compares the Wa5SE to the Zana Duex.


 
  
 I dunno but i'm guessing WA5


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> I dunno but i'm guessing WA5




Prepare to be surprised.  A lot more listening to do before I start making statements. I love the looks and the build quality...ridiculous in person.

-Daniel


----------



## GalaxyGuy

bourneperfect said:


> Prepare to be surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I assume that applies to both amps?


----------



## BournePerfect

I've got a pretty good feel of the ZDSE after living with it over a year with many different dacs and a few tubes. It's pretty easy to see in other amps where certain nuances are lacking, or even nonexistent in comparison. That's why I was pretty fond of the Bryston-despite it's somewhat sharp top end-it had a smidgen of the EC traits that I've never heard anywhere else.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> I dunno but i'm guessing WA5


 
  
 I agree but it's always nice to read why 
  
 Plan on getting the zdse in april and the wa5 a year or two after that.


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> I agree but it's always nice to read why
> 
> Plan on getting the zdse in april and the wa5 a year or two after that.


 
  
 Keeping both?


----------



## kazsud

Maybe


----------



## moriez

As I understand it the Tung Sol 5998 is on another gain (or whatever the technical term is) than for example the stock RCA 6080 in the WA3. To avoid distortion I'm kind of forced now to listen at a lower volume level but it's a bit too low for my taste. Is there a nice (similar sounding) and not super rare alternative tube that allows for higher volume? My headphones are 300Ω and up.


----------



## GrindingThud

I believe the 7236 is the "loudest" of the bunch. The 5998A is an inexpensive option, but is the least tubey sounding IMHO.



moriez said:


> As I understand it the Tung Sol 5998 is on another gain (or whatever the technical term is) than for example the stock RCA 6080 in the WA3. To avoid distortion I'm kind of forced now to listen at a lower volume level but it's a bit too low for my taste. Is there a nice (similar sounding) and not super rare alternative tube that allows for higher volume? My headphones are 300Ω and up.


----------



## MacedonianHero

grindingthud said:


> I believe the 7236 is the "loudest" of the bunch. The 5998A is an inexpensive option, but is the least tubey sounding IMHO.


 
  
 The 5998A and 5998 is NOT the same tube. The former is just 'meh" and the latter is fantastic (but hard to find good ones now as they've been almost hunted into extinction). Only Tung-Sol made the 5998.


----------



## GrindingThud

I did not mean to imply they were the same tube....its a louder playing high transconductance tube that is inexpensive....and better sounding than the stock 6080 IMHO. 




macedonianhero said:


> The 5998A and 5998 is NOT the same tube. The former is just 'meh" and the latter is fantastic (but hard to find good ones now as they've been almost hunted into extinction). Only Tung-Sol made the 5998.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

moriez said:


> As I understand it the Tung Sol 5998 is on another gain (or whatever the technical term is) than for example the stock RCA 6080 in the WA3. To avoid distortion I'm kind of forced now to listen at a lower volume level but it's a bit too low for my taste. Is there a nice (similar sounding) and not super rare alternative tube that allows for higher volume? My headphones are 300Ω and up.


 
  
  
 5998 and 7236 seem like the only options. i think theres also a 6520 tube or whatever its called, that 1 is cheap but sucks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

macedonianhero said:


> The 5998A and 5998 is NOT the same tube. The former is just 'meh" and the latter is fantastic (but hard to find good ones now as they've been almost hunted into extinction). Only Tung-Sol made the 5998.


 
  
  
 +1
  
 i think GE made the 5998A which is more similar to a 7236 but different.


----------



## GrindingThud

Does vacuumtubes.net have any of the graphite bendix left? Those may be a good compromise between 5998 and stock 6080.



dubstep girl said:


> 5998 and 7236 seem like the only options. i think theres also a 6520 tube or whatever its called, that 1 is cheap but sucks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grindingthud said:


> Does vacuumtubes.net have any of the graphite bendix left? Those may be a good compromise between 5998 and stock 6080.


 
  
  
 i think they do.
  
 but i dont think they're high gain. they're 6080s.


----------



## GrindingThud

6080s that sound really nice. 



dubstep girl said:


> i think they do.
> 
> but i dont think they're high gain. they're 6080s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

grindingthud said:


> I did not mean to imply they were the same tube....its a louder playing high transconductance tube that is inexpensive....and better sounding than the stock 6080 IMHO.


 
  
 No worries, I was just re-enforcing your post. Many have made the mistake and picked up the 5998A tubes and then never understood what all the hype was about.


----------



## GrindingThud

Yea, there's a reason 5998 are going extinct and the 421A is unobtanium. I wish I had discovered OTL headphone amps ten years ago. 



macedonianhero said:


> No worries, I was just re-enforcing your post. Many have made the mistake and picked up the 5998A tubes and then never understood what all the hype was about.


----------



## MacedonianHero

grindingthud said:


> Yea, there's a reason 5998 are going extinct and the 421A is unobtanium. I wish I had discovered OTL headphone amps ten years ago.


 
  
 The 5998s are definitely going that way too. Best power tubes with the WA2 IMO. But with the WA22, I preferred the TS7236.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

macedonianhero said:


> The 5998s are definitely going that way too. Best power tubes with the WA2 IMO. But with the WA22, I preferred the TS7236.


 
  
  
 what are 5998 like on the WA22?
  
 i tried TS 7236 on WA2, they seemed like a really lush version of the sylvania 7236


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> what are 5998 like on the WA22?
> 
> i tried TS 7236 on WA2, they seemed like a really lush version of the sylvania 7236


 
  
 They are still outstanding, just with the WA22 I preferred the slightly brighter presentation of the TS7236. The Sylvania 7236 was right up there too, but I preferred the slightly more natural sounding Tung-Sols.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

macedonianhero said:


> They are still outstanding, just with the WA22 I preferred the slightly brighter presentation of the TS7236. The Sylvania 7236 was right up there too, but I preferred the slightly more natural sounding Tung-Sols.


 
  
 ill have to give the TS7236 more listening, i only used them on the HD 800 haven't tried them on T1 yet. i did notice that they where a step up from the Sylvania 7236 though.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> ill have to give the TS7236 more listening, i only used them on the HD 800 haven't tried them on T1 yet. i did notice that they where a step up from the Sylvania 7236 though.


 
  
 The differences weren't big...I was able to pay the same amount of $ for the Tung-Sols. If they cost more, the differences were so slight, I likely wouldn't have bothered.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

macedonianhero said:


> The differences weren't big...I was able to pay the same amount of $ for the Tung-Sols. If they cost more, the differences were so slight, I likely wouldn't have bothered.


 
  
 i bought from jack, so they where like $40 more than what he would sell sylvania for.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> i bought from jack, so they where like $40 more than what he would sell sylvania for.


 
  
 Funny, that's were I bought mine a few years back and they were the same price back then.


----------



## sjay

so i finally bought my woo6/rs1i setup home to connect it to a more serious source, my m51 and I am not disappointed that I did 
  
 i have a 2 channel reference level setup here at home and sure the woo/rs1i setup cant compete with the stage, bass and imaging but its not like a reasonable person would at less than 1/30th the price lol
  
 shame I dont have another m51 for the office 
  
 oh well back to macy gray i go


----------



## Dubstep Girl

So the m51 u have is mostly for your reference. 2 channel setup, the woo and rs1 just for headphone listening?


----------



## sjay

dubstep girl said:


> So the m51 u have is mostly for your reference. 2 channel setup, the woo and rs1 just for headphone listening?


 
  
 Yes the m51 is my reference until I have funds for a DAC upgrade (MSB analogue) ....... my recent speaker upgrade did a little damage to my wallet (PMC MB2S-P's) so I need to wait a bit before i make any more significant purchases 
  
 the woo is for the office which has an NFB2 + SBT for it


----------



## magiccabbage

sjay said:


> Yes the m51 is my reference until I have funds for a DAC upgrade (MSB analogue) ....... my recent speaker upgrade did a little damage to my wallet (PMC MB2S-P's) so I need to wait a bit before i make any more significant purchases
> 
> the woo is for the office which has an NFB2 + SBT for it


 
  
 Jesus, its like a wallet massacre!


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> The 5998s are definitely going that way too. Best power tubes with the WA2 IMO. But with the WA22, I preferred the TS7236.


 
  
 X2, but I like GEC 6080 or GEC 6AS7G (much preferred this)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> X2, but I like GEC 6080 or GEC 6AS7G (much preferred this)




So GEC 6AS7G still best for Hd 800 and maybe T1 on wa22?

I prefer 5998 on t1 with wa2 but the gec by a good margin with the hd 800


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> So GEC 6AS7G still best for Hd 800 and maybe T1 on wa22?
> 
> I prefer 5998 on t1 with wa2 but the gec by a good margin with the hd 800


 
  
 Never tested T1 with GEC but I do prefer the TS7236 over TS5998 on WA22 with T1.  I like TS7236 on WA22 so much that I sold all my TS5998 except one pair.


----------



## moriez

Thanks for shedding some light peeps. Based on the information here I was indeed thinking to look for a 6080WB. GrindingThud, you gotz PM.


----------



## BournePerfect

Been doing a ton of listening this weekend, and a bit of tube rolling on the WA5-LE. I didn't like the (gorgeous) Sophia mesh 274Bs with the Princess 300Bs-everything was just too rounded, and lacking depth imo. Swapped out the Sophia 274Bs for some old JAN 5U4Gs-much improvement-more impactful, more neutral sounding with perhaps better clarity. A much different presentation mainly. I'm going to go back to the meshes again tonight and see how I feel about the 274Bs-I 'want' to like them more based on looks alone lol-but so far they haven't impressed. I also swapped some 1944(?) tungsol browns for the modern ones-I prefer the old ones but it's more of a wash imo.
  
 What I've found so far...this isn't nearly as lush as some have suggested. In fact-I find he ZDSE more romantic, but at the same time the ZDSE is also faster, more resolving (especially low-level detail retrieval), better microdynamics, much blacker background (Woos biggest flaw imo), bigger/deeper soundstage, and overall the ZDSE tends to walk a perfect tightrope of tube romanticism vs ss speed and technicality. So far-I still prefer the ZDSE in nearly every area.
  
 One thing the big Woo does though-is it ALWAYS has bass. Granted it's not nearly as tight as the Zana's, it's much more rounded. In fact-regardless of tubes I've rolled so far, it never quite tightens up to the point that I like-the point the HD800s are really capable of. But it's always there (must be a 300B thing)...whereas with the ZDSE, you can go from almost no bass-to astounding bass quality  from a simple driver tube swap.
  
 More impressions forthcoming...I *want* to call this an end game amp-but as of now-I've heard better-for a grand less. Anyone have some suggestions for some 6SN7s to roll-mainly that will tighten up the bass-and possibly add a touch of euphony?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Been doing a ton of listening this weekend, and a bit of tube rolling on the WA5-LE. I didn't like the (gorgeous) Sophia mesh 274Bs with the Princess 300Bs-everything was just too rounded, and lacking depth imo. Swapped out the Sophia 274Bs for some old JAN 5U4Gs-much improvement-more impactful, more neutral sounding with perhaps better clarity. A much different presentation mainly. I'm going to go back to the meshes again tonight and see how I feel about the 274Bs-I 'want' to like them more based on looks alone lol-but so far they haven't impressed. I also swapped some 1944(?) tungsol browns for the modern ones-I prefer the old ones but it's more of a wash imo.
> 
> What I've found so far...this isn't nearly as lush as some have suggested. In fact-I find he ZDSE more romantic, but at the same time the ZDSE is also faster, more resolving (especially low-level detail retrieval), better microdynamics, much blacker background (Woos biggest flaw imo), bigger/deeper soundstage, and overall the ZDSE tends to walk a perfect tightrope of tube romanticism vs ss speed and technicality. So far-I still prefer the ZDSE in nearly every area.
> 
> ...


 
  
 u need to try the mighty 596's and maybe EML 300B, im not a big fan of any of the sophia tubes, they seem to be lacking resolution, and alot of NOS tubes certainly are better than them.
  
 and i love the woo audio bass! btw, i think i'm gonna go for WA22, especially if u find WA5 to not be as romantic as ZDSE, since i already found the ZDSE to not really be romantic and tube sounding at all (except with sophia 6sn7 where it was equal to WA2). either it was warm and sweet or fast and neutral like SS but more liquid.
  
 no1 has said WA5 was lush btw, i always figured it was supposed to be faster and more neutral than the WA22/WA2, but very transparent.


----------



## BournePerfect

Actually I've heard a ton of people refer to Woo in general-as lush. I wouldn't even call the Zana lush. Guess the only lush tube amp I've heard was the little Qinpu Q2-what mids that little guy had! Also-I'm not sure I wanna try any EMLs since a lot of Stratus/HD800 owners think they're (2a3s) a little too bright with the Senns...not sure if that's a house sound that the 300Bs would sound like though. I still have the stock 300Bs (Shuangang?) that I need to try out-but the JAN rectifiers tightened everything up quite a bit so I'm not sure if swapping the Princess will do me any favors. If anything I want a little more warmth, or better yet a touch of euphony...I'm not convinced tube rolling is gonna put this in the Zana's league as far as inner detail, speed, and massive soundstaging are concerned...the Zana had those traits regardless of tube rolling...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

First the tubes will make a huge difference.
  
 The 300B are very important. I use the EML300B and the RCA 5U4G I use have deep and tight bass and my tubes of choice for the  driver section are either the Tungsol 6sn BGP or the slightly better Tungsol 6F8G BGP circa 1942.  The ZD is also a  OTL and OTL are basically not designed for low impedance headphones more so for high impedance cans and the Woo can play both low and high impedance  and if you have the WA5 speakers and planar as eel. as well..The ZDSE is 2200 and the WA5LE is 2750.00 so the difference is like 550.00.
  
 I have never head the zdse so I cant do a comparison but OTL wont work for me any more so I need a transformer based amplifier. Also my WA5 is dead quiet. Could be the tubes your using as well. I have zero issues but its also comparing an apple to an orange with amplifiers.  The OTL also is not a 300B amplifier  and may be you prefer the hd800 with an OTL as many do. I also have the lCD2 and the hE6 sop OTL don't work best for me with an OTL. A more fair comparison would be to use a 300B amp for comparison if you could. Like all else you would need to try other 300B to see what would work best for you .  The 5uRG has really tight and deeply extended bass in my amp.
  
 If your using stock 300B then you need to upgrade those because the shugies are not in the same class as my EML. I only used them one day then switched to the EML and thtas what been in there ever since.


----------



## BournePerfect

frank i said:


> First the tubes will make a huge difference.
> 
> The 300B are very important. I use the EML300B and the RCA 5U4G I use have deep and tight bass and my tubes of choice for the  driver section are either the Tungsol 6sn BGP or the slightly better Tungsol 6F8G BGP circa 1942.  The ZD is also a  OTL and OTL are basically not designed for low impedance headphones more so for high impedance cans and the Woo can play both low and high impedance  and if you have the WA5 speakers and planar as eel. as well..The ZDSE is 2200 and the WA5LE is 2750.00 so the difference is like 550.00.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am using the Princess 300Bs Frank. And I'm also using the JAN (RCA I believe) 5U4Gs from the early '40s. The ZDSE is one of a kind as well Frank-Craig made the SE version for that very purpose-a unique design in the OTL world-the low impedance jack on the ZDSE has an output of 3 ohms...unheard of for an OTL. It's also a perfect synergistic match for the AD2000 and TH900-both of which I owned with the ZDSE. Dead silent background with both, btw. I'm not hearing hum or anything on the Woo-just not a pitch black background like the Zana.
  
 I have the WA5-LE with all the tube upgrades on Jacks site-roughly $3500 new. The Zana with my driver of choice was only $2300. So-more of a *$1200 *difference is more accurate-thanks for pointing that out. 
  
 I do wonder if a lot of it does really come down to topology though-I've never owned a transformer-coupled tube amp before. I do agree though that I prefer the Zana easily with the HD800s-just a sense of pure effortlessness and ease of flowing music, that must be one of it's traits...? I'm sure you can notice some differences with the WA5 you own, compared to the CSP2 you had...
  
 I might try an EML sometime-but based on my research (so far)-the Princess is in the same league as far as the 300Bs...not sure if the differences will be worth the expenditure lol.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> I am using the Princess 300Bs Frank. And I'm also using the JAN (RCA I believe) 5U4Gs from the early '40s. The ZDSE is one of a kind as well Frank-Craig made the SE version for that very purpose-a unique design in the OTL world-the low impedance jack on the ZDSE has an output of 3 ohms...unheard of for an OTL. It's also a perfect synergistic match for the AD2000 and TH900-both of which I owned with the ZDSE. Dead silent background with both, btw. I'm not hearing hum or anything on the Woo-just not a pitch black background like the Zana.
> 
> I have the WA5-LE with all the tube upgrades on Jacks site-roughly $3500 new. The Zana with my driver of choice was only $2300. So-more of a *$1200 *difference is more accurate-thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 nice to hear some honest impressions. maybe you will think differently after you have live with it for a while. Its funny how DG didnt really like the Zana that much over the WA2 and you dont really like the Wa5le over the Zana


----------



## BournePerfect

Well-without beating a dead horse, or trying to sound condescending towards anyone in particular-I find short-term impressions of EC gear to be completely unreliable. Sure you can get a feel for bass, mids, soundstage etc relatively quickly-but the devil is in all the nuances and details-namely, micro-dynamics and micro-detail. Easy to throw the terms around sometimes-but it literally took me months and months to really put a finger on what they were. Now I can usually discover these subtleties in a short amount of time with other amps. Believe it or not the BHA-1 was about the only other amp that had some of the EC traits-an ss amp of all things. It wasn't as easy to recognize them, but they were there. So far-I'm not really finding much of that with the Woo.
  
 I hope I'm not coming across negative or anything-after all-the WA5-LE is the second best amp I've owned/heard. High praise imo. And even though I subjectively prefer the aesthetics of the ZDSE-this Woo is really something to behold in person! Definitely the best build quality of anything I've owned in the audio realm-probably tied with the Eximus DP-1, another stunner.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

bourneperfect said:


> I am using the Princess 300Bs Frank. And I'm also using the JAN (RCA I believe) 5U4Gs from the early '40s. The ZDSE is one of a kind as well Frank-Craig made the SE version for that very purpose-a unique design in the OTL world-the low impedance jack on the ZDSE has an output of 3 ohms...unheard of for an OTL. It's also a perfect synergistic match for the AD2000 and TH900-both of which I owned with the ZDSE. Dead silent background with both, btw. I'm not hearing hum or anything on the Woo-just not a pitch black background like the Zana.
> 
> I have the WA5-LE with all the tube upgrades on Jacks site-roughly $3500 new. The Zana with my driver of choice was only $2300. So-more of a *$1200 *difference is more accurate-thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The WA5 is better than the  Taboo Mk111 I had, another transformer based amplifier..  I dont know too much about the Princess except is that they are made  by Full Music and cost less.   I have not rolled the 300B but if I did I would be buying the KR 300B ballon next. I have not heard those tubes but JC has and may be able to fill you in better.   I not hearing black what do you hear. Curious. LOL. Maybe the WA5 is not for you and you can get another SE if you like it better, that what I would do. Some people just prefer other types of house sound products as we all like different things. I liked both the AT3000 and the Fostex th900 and from my recollection you liked neither so could be our taste are also different. The Sylvania driver you using on the WA5 would not be my choice if that the upgrade you talking about. I found the tungsol tubes far superior to the other one I have tried. I have sylvania and raytheon but they are in the box collecting dust.
  
  I also have a short memory span from the CSP2 as I have not heard it in some long now I couldn't compare it straight up any more but I do know my WA5 has made me stop buying amps so for me its the right amp.  What low impedance headphones do you have on hand now? Do you still own the fostex? I use the WA5 quite a bit with low impedance headphones. My only headphone high any more is my hd800 and the T1 here with the A20 and going back after the review . The only Eddie current amp I have heard is the balancing act and I liked it. I would like to compare that one straight up to the WA5 but funds don't allow and he don't like giving out review samples. I heard it in San Francisco with the LCD prototype and liked it.


----------



## atomicbob

bourneperfect said:


> Been doing a ton of listening this weekend, and a bit of tube rolling on the WA5-LE.     *edit*
> 
> In fact-I find he ZDSE more romantic, but at the same time the ZDSE is also faster, more resolving (especially low-level detail retrieval), better microdynamics, much blacker background (Woos biggest flaw imo), bigger/deeper soundstage, and overall the ZDSE tends to walk a perfect tightrope of tube romanticism vs ss speed and technicality. So far-I still prefer the ZDSE in nearly every area.
> 
> *edit*


 
 Thank-you for the impressions Daniel, those are very helpful for me. I had been on the fence between WA5-LE and ZDSE. Heard the ZDSE at a meet and being an OTL fan since my introduction with WA3+, decided to take the ZDSE path at this time. Currently on production waiting list. Hearing the ZDSE drive TH-900 so well, I was impressed with an OTL that can handle low impedance headphones. My only problem is that I seem to be accumulating headphone amps as I find each in my collection to have their respective strengths and don't really want to part with any of them.
  
 By the way, the Woo WA7 has an extraordinarily black background, drives low impedance cans well and yet has enough euphonic behavior with all the cans in my collection as to receive a lot of listening time. It is also way more transportable and I have put together a carrying system using a pro camera bag so I can take it with me as desired.


----------



## jc9394

BP, please don't forget the law of diminishing applies. When I just from WA6 to WA22, it is a huge jump but when I got curious, I brought a WA6SE maxed to compare to my WA22, the jump isn't that huge anymore. Surely, it is better but I think the presentation is the huge. Remember 300B sound/presentation is not for everyone, either you like it or not. I remember a guy in a local meet said the WA5 is only good not great but when I heard the same setup, I was floored. (clean up on aisle 8, quickly changed pants)


----------



## BournePerfect

frank i said:


> The WA5 is better than the  Taboo Mk111 I had, another transformer based amplifier..  I dont know too much about the Princess except is that they are made  by Full Music and cost less.   I have not rolled the 300B but if I did I would be buying the KR 300B ballon next. I have not heard those tubes but JC has and may be able to fill you in better.   I not hearing black what do you hear. Curious. LOL. Maybe the WA5 is not for you and you can get another SE if you like it better, that what I would do. Some people just prefer other types of house sound products as we all like different things. I liked both the AT3000 and the Fostex th900 and from my recollection you liked neither so could be our taste are also different. The Sylvania driver you using on the WA5 would not be my choice if that the upgrade you talking about. I found the tungsol tubes far superior to the other one I have tried. I have sylvania and raytheon but they are in the box collecting dust.
> 
> I also have a short memory span from the CSP2 as I have not heard it in some long now I couldn't compare it straight up any more but I do know my WA5 has made me stop buying amps so for me its the right amp.  What low impedance headphones do you have on hand now? Do you still own the fostex? I use the WA5 quite a bit with low impedance headphones. My only headphone high any more is my hd800 and the T1 here with the A20 and going back after the review . The only Eddie current amp I have heard is the balancing act and I liked it. I would like to compare that one straight up to the WA5 but funds don't allow and he don't like giving out review samples. I heard it in San Francisco with the LCD prototype and liked it.


 
  
 Reason I'm comparing it to the ZDSE is that's the amp I'm most familiar with, and also a tube based amp known to pair well with the HD800s-just like the Zana. Unfortunately I no longer have any low impedance cans-but I doubt the blackground would sound blacker if using those lol. Coming from primarily ss amps, and the very low noise floor of the ZDSE (Craig tests all his amps with the super sensitive AD2000 for that express purpose btw), that's why I brought up the higher noise floor on the Woo-nothing really bad about it-just noticeable compared to other amps I've owned.
  
 I've never heard the ECBA-and doubt I will since I should have my Leviathan within 2-3 months. Should be cool having them both in the house at once. 
  
  


atomicbob said:


> Thank-you for the impressions Daniel, those are very helpful for me. I had been on the fence between WA5-LE and ZDSE. Heard the ZDSE at a meet and being an OTL fan since my introduction with WA3+, decided to take the ZDSE path at this time. Currently on production waiting list. Hearing the ZDSE drive TH-900 so well, I was impressed with an OTL that can handle low impedance headphones. My only problem is that I seem to be accumulating headphone amps as I find each in my collection to have their respective strengths and don't really want to part with any of them.
> 
> By the way, the Woo WA7 has an extraordinarily black background, drives low impedance cans well and yet has enough euphonic behavior with all the cans in my collection as to receive a lot of listening time. It is also way more transportable and I have put together a carrying system using a pro camera bag so I can take it with me as desired.


 
  The XDSE is a stunning synergistic match with the ZDSE. In fact-I'd argue it's a more synergistic pairing with the ZDSE than even the HD800, although I still preferred the HD800 by a fair margin to the Fostex. Remember the ZDSE needs about 200 burnin hours to come around-that's where the crap stock driver tube comes in useful. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

jc9394 said:


> BP, please don't forget the law of diminishing applies. When I just from WA6 to WA22, it is a huge jump but when I got curious, I brought a WA6SE maxed to compare to my WA22, the jump isn't that huge anymore. Surely, it is better but I think the presentation is the huge. Remember 300B sound/presentation is not for everyone, either you like it or not. I remember a guy in a local meet said the WA5 is only good not great but when I heard the same setup, I was floored. (clean up on aisle 8, quickly changed pants)


 
  
  
 I love the WA5-LE, I'm not knocking it in anyway. It's the 2nd best sounding amp I've owned. It's build and appearance are second to none-preferences aside lol. This is strictly in comparison to the ZDSE, with stock HD800s. I've already rolled more tubes in the Woo than I did in the Zana btw, since there seems to be changes with each type. Most people mentioned the ZDSE didn't change much with the rectifiers or power tubes-so I strictly rolled a few driver tubes, til I found something that satisfied me with all genres. I'm sure there's much better out there for both amps as well.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jc9394

I'm not saying you are knocking the WA5 by anyway, I liked Woo amps but I'm not a fanboy. (I have no royality to any single brands)

I think it is the 300B sound signature you need to get used to, don't keep rolling tubes, stick with same set til you are familiar if 300B signature before rolling. I do like the EC ZDSE too, I chooses WA22 over EC is the tube inventory I already have. Don't force yourself to like it, just send it over to me and I'm gladly "store" it for you.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well if you're interested-shoot me a pm. I am thoroughly enjoying it though-not knocking it in anyway-except possibly price/performance ratio. But then again-I can't say that based on build alone-the thing looks like it's worth 6-8 grand imo.  Love it!!
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jc9394

Wish you have the regular WA5 version... Anyone wants my maxed WA22 or beta22?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> BP, please don't forget the law of diminishing applies. When I just from WA6 to WA22, it is a huge jump but when I got curious, I brought a WA6SE maxed to compare to my WA22, the jump isn't that huge anymore. Surely, it is better but I think the presentation is the huge. Remember 300B sound/presentation is not for everyone, either you like it or not. I remember a guy in a local meet said the WA5 is only good not great but when I heard the same setup, I was floored. (clean up on aisle 8, quickly changed pants)


 
  





 _Now, back to our regularly scheduled family friendly forum..._


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Wish you have the regular WA5 version... Anyone wants my maxed WA22 or beta22?


 
  
 Just when I finally put the Black WooAudio WA5 out of my mind, the beginning of the month, you had to go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and rekindle that interest.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ill take the WA22, still looking for one as an endgame tube amp.


----------



## Silent One

In the past few years, the strongest running currents to appear in this thread, always involved one or two things and sometimes both - WooAudio WA22 amp owners; tube rolling for said owners. _So fast,_ if you glanced up at the clock, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you were already 2 pages behind! Fellow members jc9394, Clayton SF, MacedonianHero, mikemalter and a few others could testify.
  
 On the rare occasion this wasn't the case, the aforementioned owners would be on the sideline wanting, willing, waiting... to _jump_ back on the tube rolling discussion roller coaster. There, are you excited now, DG?


----------



## MacedonianHero

silent one said:


> In the past few years, the strongest running currents to appear in this thread, always involved one or two things and sometimes both - WooAudio WA22 amp owners; tube rolling for said owners. _So fast,_ if you glanced up at the clock,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Speaking of which, whatever happened to mikemalter?


----------



## Silent One

macedonianhero said:


> Speaking of which, whatever happened to mikemalter?


 
  
 He's doing fine and just doing his thing - a lot of interesting things on his plate. I went to his home again back in January and picked up his MMF-7 TT. He's always a gracious host. May see him year-end. He does say "Hello" to everyone...


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> I do wonder if a lot of it does really come down to topology though-I've never owned a transformer-coupled tube amp before. I do agree though that I prefer the Zana easily with the HD800s-just a sense of pure effortlessness and ease of flowing music, that must be one of it's traits...? I'm sure you can notice some differences with the WA5 you own, compared to the CSP2 you had...
> -Daniel


 
 You are going in a big circle Daniel. You are going to end up with the ZDSE all over again....


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> You are going in a big circle Daniel. You are going to end up with the ZDSE all over again....


 





 Is that like the _Merry-go-round_ I see mentioned in audio?


----------



## MacedonianHero

silent one said:


> He's doing fine and just doing his thing - a lot of interesting things on his plate. I went to his home again back in January and picked up his MMF-7 TT. He's always a gracious host. May see him year-end. He does say "Hello" to everyone...


 
  
 Good to hear he's doing well.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > You are going in a big circle Daniel. You are going to end up with the ZDSE all over again....
> ...


----------



## BournePerfect

longbowbbs said:


> You are going in a big circle Daniel. You are going to end up with the ZDSE all over again....


 
  
  
 Hey I bought the Eximus twice-so who knows lol. If my Leviathan doesn't cure the tube amp itch-somebody smack me. That said I still wanna try some 'lightly' euphoric 6SN7s-but not at the expense of transparency and tight bass. Sugesstions...Peter?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## aive

bourneperfect said:


> Hey I bought the Eximus twice-so who knows lol. If my Leviathan doesn't cure the tube amp itch-somebody smack me. That said I still wanna try some 'lightly' euphoric 6SN7s-but not at the expense of transparency and tight bass. Sugesstions...Peter?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Stratus on the cards??


----------



## BournePerfect

I think the Levi checks all the boxes I'm looking for-should be a step or two above the Stratus-but similar design. Oh-and it comes in black. 
 If I wasn't having that built, I'd be looking at the EC 2A3x4, or the DNA as a cheaper option. Really enjoying this Woo know though-gonna give the Sophia 274Bs another shot in a minute...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Just when I finally put the Black WooAudio WA5 out of my mind, the beginning of the month, you had to go
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> ill take the WA22, still looking for one as an endgame tube amp.


 
  
  


silent one said:


> In the past few years, the strongest running currents to appear in this thread, always involved one or two things and sometimes both - WooAudio WA22 amp owners; tube rolling for said owners. _So fast,_ if you glanced up at the clock,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It will be hard to sell my WA22, my asking price is at MSRP of a new WA22.


----------



## BournePerfect

What's the wait time for a new one, though?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jc9394

bourneperfect said:


> What's the wait time for a new one, though?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 probably couple weeks, my WA22 is one of few fully modded with BGs WA22 that I know exists.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Whats difference in sound beween stock and blackgate modded? Cause used wa22 is rare but they sell much cheaper


----------



## jc9394

the BGs are really good with mids and better sound stage.  it is the last 5% we are chasing...


----------



## Silent One

Knowing its developmental history, I previously sought this very WA22 from owner jc9394. However, at the time he was not ready to part with it.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Knowing its developmental history, I previously sought this very WA22 from owner jc9394. However, at the time he was not ready to part with it.


 
  
 at that time, I still live in a condo, not enough space to park those tanks


----------



## indydieselnut

Hello Woo family!  I am in a position to come back into the fold and finally order my long-desired WA5.  I've sent Jack my list of questions and I've tried to read through as much of the recent discussion as possible, but can anyone who has ordered one of these recently share any advice you might have?  I've owned WA6SE with and without the parts upgrades.  I no longer pretend that this is going to be the "last amp I ever own", but I don't think I'll be in the habit of buying and selling a lot of WA5's   I would really like to order one and be done with it.  In that regard, I think I'll plunge for the parts upgrades but I'm happy to entertain any advice contrary to that direction.  I see that Frank is very satisfied with the amp with stock parts.  Also, any upgrades not on "the list" that people have done and felt worthwhile?
  
 One question I asked Jack that I'll put here too - has anyone done a volume pot somewhere in between a Blue Velvet and an RK50?  Those seem to be the only two I've seen in pictures and there's, umm, a bit of a price difference!  I didn't know if something from TKD and the like would be an upgrade without spending $1K on the RK50.  
  
 As far as color, it will be silver for me all the way...I've been dreaming of a silver WA5 since 2008.  
  
 Thanks for any advice my Woo brothers and sisters can give me!


----------



## jc9394

indydieselnut said:


> Hello Woo family!  I am in a position to come back into the fold and finally order my long-desired WA5.  I've sent Jack my list of questions and I've tried to read through as much of the recent discussion as possible, but can anyone who has ordered one of these recently share any advice you might have?  I've owned WA6SE with and without the parts upgrades.  I no longer pretend that this is going to be the "last amp I ever own", but I don't think I'll be in the habit of buying and selling a lot of WA5's   I would really like to order one and be done with it.  In that regard, I think I'll plunge for the parts upgrades but I'm happy to entertain any advice contrary to that direction.  I see that Frank is very satisfied with the amp with stock parts.  Also, any upgrades not on "the list" that people have done and felt worthwhile?
> 
> One question I asked Jack that I'll put here too - has anyone done a volume pot somewhere in between a Blue Velvet and an RK50?  Those seem to be the only two I've seen in pictures and there's, umm, a bit of a price difference!  I didn't know if something from TKD and the like would be an upgrade without spending $1K on the RK50.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The last time I asked him, as long as it can fit and he is able to get it, he will put that in.


----------



## Clayton SF

macedonianhero said:


> Speaking of which, whatever happened to mikemalter?


 
 The last vision I had of mikemalter was of him sitting in a seat on a jet airliner heading to Hawaii listening to his LCD-2. Or did I just dream that?


----------



## jc9394

You are correct he was in the plane with LCD-2 the last he reported in. Oh one more time after Glenn modded his WA22.


----------



## Silent One

That was a very relaxing pix. Though, I saw him relaxing at home some 9 months ago... he still looked
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 relaxed.


----------



## Clayton SF

SO has had an mm sighting!
 I'm glad that he had observed mikemalter in a relaxed countenance.
 Excellent news. Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

I went to pick up the Music Hall MMF-7 from him. Now, if I could just fine a suitable audio rack made of wood. I always admired the racks you assembled lining the living room wall. Who makes those cabinets?


----------



## Clayton SF

I bought it at Copenhagen Furniture San Francisco.
_*Teak Pair of Expandable Entertainment Units*_
 You can push them together or pull them apart or angle them around a corner.


----------



## Silent One

A nice purchase indeed... looks fun, too!


----------



## keehansen

that right,I leave both plugged in all the time to show off the matching Furutech plugs.thanks


----------



## Redcarmoose

indydieselnut said:


> Hello Woo family!  I am in a position to come back into the fold and finally order my long-desired WA5.  I've sent Jack my list of questions and I've tried to read through as much of the recent discussion as possible, but can anyone who has ordered one of these recently share any advice you might have?  I've owned WA6SE with and without the parts upgrades.  I no longer pretend that this is going to be the "last amp I ever own", but I don't think I'll be in the habit of buying and selling a lot of WA5's   I would really like to order one and be done with it.  In that regard, I think I'll plunge for the parts upgrades but I'm happy to entertain any advice contrary to that direction.  I see that Frank is very satisfied with the amp with stock parts.  Also, any upgrades not on "the list" that people have done and felt worthwhile?
> 
> One question I asked Jack that I'll put here too - has anyone done a volume pot somewhere in between a Blue Velvet and an RK50?  Those seem to be the only two I've seen in pictures and there's, umm, a bit of a price difference!  I didn't know if something from TKD and the like would be an upgrade without spending $1K on the RK50.
> 
> ...





I ordered just the stock 5LE back in 2008. The black Woo that I have has maybe a little more consistent in the anodized parts. I don't know if it was just mine that I ordered in 2008, but each aluminum extrusion is slightly a different tone in the silver 5LE edition. Took me awhile to get used to it.


----------



## Redcarmoose

bourneperfect said:


> Reason I'm comparing it to the ZDSE is that's the amp I'm most familiar with, and also a tube based amp known to pair well with the HD800s-just like the Zana. Unfortunately I no longer have any low impedance cans-but I doubt the blackground would sound blacker if using those lol. Coming from primarily ss amps, and the very low noise floor of the ZDSE (Craig tests all his amps with the super sensitive AD2000 for that express purpose btw), that's why I brought up the higher noise floor on the Woo-nothing really bad about it-just noticeable compared to other amps I've owned.
> 
> I've never heard the ECBA-and doubt I will since I should have my Leviathan within 2-3 months. Should be cool having them both in the house at once.
> 
> ...




Back at a show a couple years ago I was able to exchange Uncle Eric's Zana in my system, taking out the W5LE. I was amazed how close it really was to the LE sound sig.

Tube replacement way low cost too.

300b amps I feel have a character that I guess some folks hear and maybe others don't. I wish though I could now swap Eric's amp in and hear if there was some scale factor? I do totally agree with the reports of the Zana having a tighter less bass presentation. In fact at the time the Zana had better pace. Still there is a dynamic that the Woo 5 LE had that the Zana didn't have. I don't know what to call it. Hearing these two amps side by side with the same source, cables and headphones was eye opening. Still I was able to get a tighter bass response and cleaner pace with the 5LE in time. I received better pace with different power cords and RCA interconnects. Now I tell myself I have the pace of the Zana plus an enhancement of that woosy lushness to boot.


You know you can pretty much talk yourself into believing anything in this silly hobby.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so zana can kinda sound like wa5? what do u think BP? since u have both, what do u feel is the general sound signaturre vs zd?


----------



## Redcarmoose

dubstep girl said:


> so zana can kinda sound like wa5? what do u think BP? since u have both, what do u feel is the general sound signaturre vs zd?




Well, he thinks the Zana sounds better,right? The good news for me was finding I could love another amp besides the Woo 5LE.


The Zana will run on really inexpensive tube replacements too. Not a big deal except I just spent $600 to completely re-tube the LE. 


That takes away from my other hobbies that are bikes and whiskey.


----------



## Redcarmoose

dubstep girl said:


> so zana can kinda sound like wa5? what do u think BP? since u have both, what do u feel is the general sound signaturre vs zd?




Well, he thinks the Zana sounds better,right? The good news for me was finding I could love another amp besides the Woo 5LE.


The Zana will run on really inexpensive tube replacements too. Not a big deal except I just spent $600 to completely re-tube the LE. 


That takes away from my other hobbies that are bikes and whisky.


............very rarely do I enjoy them at the same time. Bicycles and whisky. The whisky goes with the Woo.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'll post more later-even though I think I've posted most of my thoughts already. My WA5-LE is for sale btw...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jc9394

redcarmoose said:


> Well, he thinks the Zana sounds better,right? The good news for me was finding I could love another amp besides the Woo 5LE.
> 
> 
> The Zana will run on really inexpensive tube replacements too. Not a big deal except I just spent $600 to completely re-tube the LE.
> ...


 
  
  
 Totally agree on this...


----------



## jc9394

bourneperfect said:


> I'll post more later-even though I think I've posted most of my thoughts already. My WA5-LE is for sale btw...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 I'm sure it will be gone soon.  Wish I have a bottomless toy budget.


----------



## BournePerfect

jc9394 said:


> I'm sure it will be gone soon.  Wish I have a bottomless toy budget.


 
 If my v800 sells-I'll take the Woo down and hold it for you. Why hasn't my Violectric sold anyway-I've gotta it at a hell of a price imo-and throw in the free Priority...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## banger

You really do get a benefit when you try different 300B tubes.
  
 I am running Royal Princess 300B's now.
  
 They made a big difference in the sound that is clearly noticeable right away.
 Bass tightened up and more air between instruments. I almost sold
 mine before trying these tubes. So, glad I didn't!
  
 These are high dollar tubes, but I was able to source a used, low
 hour set for 800.00 shipped.


----------



## BournePerfect

I agree that the Princess 300Bs are an improvement over stock. Haven't heard the Royals though.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I think EML would sound better just cause i feel sophia tubes have a sort of veil to them, at least the 274b and the 6sl7 so far, seems like they add bass and smoothness in exchange for transparency and detail of other tubes. 

Also wa5 would probably improve alot with double mighty 596s


----------



## banger

I have found that the rectifiers have little effect on the sound for my WA5. The noticeable
 changes are discovered in the output tubes. I have tried the EML's and while they are
 good, the RP's easily best them for me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

banger said:


> I have found that the rectifiers have little effect on the sound for my WA5. The noticeable
> changes are discovered in the output tubes. I have tried the EML's and while they are
> good, the RP's easily best them for me.


 
  
 yeah different amp construction must play a role then. 
  
 i think all tubes change the sound enough to notice, but it might be hardest to tell the differences on some tubes, in this case, any good rectifier will pretty much sound the same, put a cheap shuguang 274b instead, and i'm sure you'll notice, but sophia vs eml or something might be harder, even harder for something like a tung sol 5u4g and a sylvania 5u4g or something like that.
  
 i assume being a 300b amp, that the 300b's will definitely change the sound the most and the most time and money should be invested in those.


----------



## M Coupe

Hi All,
  
 Just bought the WA6SE from a member here.  I plan to upgrade the rectifier tube.  I am new to tubes and have been looking for the USAF-596 tube for two days and no luck.  Should I simply get the upgraded 274B Princess tube Woo offers and call it a day...or is there some place you all can point me to for the mighty 596?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## longbowbbs

You have to be an opportunist with the 596's. They only pop up occasionally here of on ebay.


----------



## reeltime

dubstep girl said:


> I think EML would sound better just cause i feel sophia tubes have a sort of veil to them, at least the 274b and the 6sl7 so far, seems like they add bass and smoothness in exchange for transparency and detail of other tubes.
> 
> Also wa5 would probably improve alot with double mighty 596s


 
  
 I have the WA5LE.  I prefer the signature of the EML 5U4G to the 596s.  The 596's are slightly more detailed, but they give away too much bass on the EMLs. Because I'm driving the HD-800, a little more bass is a big deal.  Both are exceptional tubes, though.  I switched back to the EMLs.


----------



## longbowbbs

reeltime said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > I think EML would sound better just cause i feel sophia tubes have a sort of veil to them, at least the 274b and the 6sl7 so far, seems like they add bass and smoothness in exchange for transparency and detail of other tubes.
> ...


 
  
 That is interesting since one of the 596 hallmarks is nice tight bass. I am going to have to audition the EML...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

longbowbbs said:


> That is interesting since one of the 596 hallmarks is nice tight bass. I am going to have to audition the EML...


 
  
 they have tight deep bass, the best extension of almost any tube i've heard, but depending on the other tubes in your setup, it can go from taught and punchy to thin and anemic.


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That is interesting since one of the 596 hallmarks is nice tight bass. I am going to have to audition the EML...
> ...


 
  
 Synergy is king...as always!


----------



## reeltime

longbowbbs said:


> That is interesting since one of the 596 hallmarks is nice tight bass. I am going to have to audition the EML...


 
  
 Both are great tubes.  The 596 brought more detail to my ear.  But the EML offered more bass punch, which matches the HD800 better, for me, anyway.


----------



## Silent One

Though, on a lower-end Woo, the USAF-596 brought more detail, depth _and _dynamics over the EML glass for me. The latter really is a fine rec, however.


----------



## jc9394

m coupe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just bought the WA6SE from a member here.  I plan to upgrade the rectifier tube.  I am new to tubes and have been looking for the USAF-596 tube for two days and no luck.  Should I simply get the upgraded 274B Princess tube Woo offers and call it a day...or is there some place you all can point me to for the mighty 596?
> 
> Cheers!




The 596 are very hard to fine now, it was very limited even when I started looking for it. 

***shameless plug***. I have an EML 5U4G mesh for sale soon.


----------



## reeltime

silent one said:


> Though, on a lower-end Woo, the USAF-596 brought more detail, depth _and _dynamics over the EML glass for me. The latter really is a fine rec, however.


 
  
 I imagine on a bass rich headphone, like the LCD-3, the pairing is unbeatable.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes extremely good with both audezes


----------



## daverich4

​


m coupe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just bought the WA6SE from a member here.  I plan to upgrade the rectifier tube.  I am new to tubes and have been looking for the USAF-596 tube for two days and no luck.  Should I simply get the upgraded 274B Princess tube Woo offers and call it a day...or is there some place you all can point me to for the mighty 596?
> 
> Cheers!




Did you check with Jack Woo? That's where I got mine along with the adapter for it.


----------



## M Coupe

I did not check with Jack...I did not see it on his website so I assumed he did not have it.

Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Silent One

Never assume. I personally sold him his last dozen or so back in January. I believe he has 1-2 left... and good luck!


----------



## M Coupe

Oh well..no dice from Jack.  He is a really nice guy but only had his personal quantity left.  I cannot fault him for not wanting to sell them.  I will keep looking.  Thanks again for the tip though...it was worth a shot.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yeah i thought he sold out a while ago. I guess he just keeps a pair for testing on his amps and whatnot.


----------



## Silent One

The matched pair I just bought back from him in May, I just sold last Friday. I may have three to four remaining. Will likely gift one for year-end holidays, sell one and attempt to keep two.
  
 But M Coupe, I've got you firm in mind...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i might be looking for more mighty 596's soon


----------



## M Coupe

Thanks Silent One!


----------



## fhuang

you have a couple more Silent?


----------



## Silent One

Me? I wouldn't know what a '596' was if it were lookin' me dead in the eye! Perhaps, if I post a pix of my listening room, someone could help me identify it.


----------



## M Coupe

Ha ha.  I am new to tubes but I think they should change the local name from "mighty 596" to the "devil tube" as it:
 - has horns
 - has a cult type following
 -makes people act crazy


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Me? I wouldn't know what a '596' was if it were lookin' me dead in the eye! Perhaps, if I post a pix of my listening room, someone could help me identify it.


 
  
 post some pics - please!


----------



## Clayton SF

m coupe said:


> Ha ha.  I am new to tubes but I think they should change the local name from "mighty 596" to the "devil tube" as it:
> - has horns
> - has a cult type following
> -makes people act crazy


 
 What a refresher.
 I like that name.
  
 Devil Tube.
  
 It kind of reminds me of Ultrainferno.
 The fire within.
  
 I'd sell my soul for it. Well, maybe not. But pretty close.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> Me? I wouldn't know what a '596' was if it were lookin' me dead in the eye! Perhaps, if I post a pix of my listening room, someone could help me identify it.


----------



## WindyCityCy

silent one said:


> Me? I wouldn't know what a '596' was if it were lookin' me dead in the eye! Perhaps, if I post a pix of my listening room, someone could help me identify it.


 
  
 Please do.  I haven't been keeping up with my favorite thread for awhile ... life got in the way ... always good to catch up and looking forward to spending some time with my WA22 this winter!


----------



## Silent One

windycitycy said:


> Please do.  I haven't been keeping up with my favorite thread for awhile ... life got in the way ... always good to catch up and looking forward to spending some time with my WA22 this winter!


 
  





 Great to see you re-emerge! About life getting in the way, I know what you're saying. I've been locked out of the listening room pretty much ALL year! My saving grace has been the HD650/iPod combo... with a little help from a little friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (G-22000).
  
 I'll get you caught up with my gears in the next 2 weeks (or less). My setup will be temporarily housed - will show a more permanent shot of the rig this autumn. Never got to go cycling with you yet. But three weeks ago, I picked up a new Cervelo S5 with Roval Rapide 60 CLX 60 Wheelset.


----------



## WindyCityCy

silent one said:


> Great to see you re-emerge! About life getting in the way, I know what you're saying. I've been locked out of the listening room pretty much ALL year! My saving grace has been the HD650/iPod combo... with a little help from a little friend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice ride.  I've put more miles on my bike than my car this year.  Had to take the past month off due to shoulder surgery.  Just getting back to riding.  Did get to ride the Tierra Bella and the Triple Bypass in Colorado before going under the knife though.  Can't wait to see your updated listening room!


----------



## Silent One

windycitycy said:


> Nice ride.  I've put more miles on my bike than my car this year.  Had to take the past month off due to shoulder surgery.  Just getting back to riding.  Did get to ride the Tierra Bella and the Triple Bypass in Colorado before going under the knife though.  Can't wait to see your updated listening room!


 
  
 That's some really good ridin' you squeezed in! While wishing you a _speedy recovery_, I know what could help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Time spent getting reacquainted with your WooAudio WA22.


----------



## deanorthk

That's one of the amp I'm thinking of, the 6 SE... Mostly because I need to find an amp that will lessen a bit the too bright highs on my PS 1000.
 It's selling only in the US though, so hard to order for me at the other side of the world.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Many people like ps1000 with wa6-se, i found that with the right tube combos, it did warm it up somewhat, but i feel like the ps1000s are not worth the time to get them to sound good, the rs1i/ps500 are more natural sounding. Regardless of what i used, i still found ps1000s to have recessed mids and a fatiguing treble, that 10k peak is like up to 10db over normal, its ridiculous, so everything is piercing sharp and sibilance and grain are present in the sound.


----------



## Clayton SF

I own the WA4 (2004), WA4 (2011), WA6, WA22, and the WA2. It is time that I lighten the WooLoad and sell off one of them. If you're interested,_* the WA2 is F/S*_. Thanks to Ultrainferno for helping--it will ship from Europe. It is like one of my children is finally old enough to leave home.


----------



## jc9394

Wow Clayton, I thought you will never sell a Woo.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Wow Clayton, I thought you will never sell a Woo.


 
  
 Huh? What did I just do? ....


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Huh? What did I just do? ....


 
  
 what is the WA4 like on LCD2 and 3?


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Huh? What did I just do? ....




Selling your WA2...


----------



## M Coupe

Hi All,

So i have my pre-owned LCD 2.2 and Woo Audio WA6-SE set up today. The rectifier is the cheap Chineese 274B tube. The driver tubes are the 6FD7 tubes. I like what I hear overall but I have to say the treble is a bit analytical and the lower frequencies don't seem to have the control they need. 

What direction tube wise you point me? I have to assume the rectifier is the culprit for much of what I am hearing. It could also be that I need to give my ears a chance to adjust the LCDs...I have not ruled that out either.

Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

m coupe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So i have my pre-owned LCD 2.2 and Woo Audio WA6-SE set up today. The rectifier is the cheap Chineese 274B tube. The driver tubes are the 6FD7 tubes. I like what I hear overall but I have to say the treble is a bit analytical and the lower frequencies don't seem to have the control they need.
> 
> ...


 
  
 try 6GL7 and 6DR7. maybe even 6EW7, play around. the 6EW7 is smooth and wide, but leaner on the bass, the 6DE7 is warm and tubey, the 6DR7 is very wide, 3d, and euphonic, but has weak bass, the 6GL7 is U shaped, but tons of power PRaT and dynamics, the 6FD7 is very well balanced, neutral almost but with a bit of tubeness, probably the best tube for the LCD-2.
  
 like i said, you should look to upgrade the Shuguang 274b, its a 7$ stock tube, it tends to be bright and congested. not very musical (some people who have auditioned stock WA6-SE have believed it to be a bad amp cause this tube sucks, its a stock tube though, and its only purpose is to test if the amp works).  the LCD-2s shouldn't have any bit of analytical treble, especially with the WA6-SE. there should be none of it. a $30 sylvania 5U4G should be a huge upgrade already, and of course the 596 or a Sophia princess are great options.


----------



## M Coupe

This is really great information and I do thank you for it.


----------



## ardilla

Anybody know about the RTC 5R4GYS
  
 It's claimed to be synonym to the Brimar RTC 5R4GY


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Never heard of it. If u have, check the sound out, the brimar is very tubey and laid back, but transparent


----------



## Oskari

ardilla said:


> Anybody know about the RTC 5R4GYS


 
  
 For what it's worth, RTC was a French Philips group brand and manufacturer.


----------



## Frank I

RTC tubes are excellent. I have used various different tyoes through the years and they were always good. I used the smaller tubes for my CAT sl1MK11 preamp for years. Boy do i miss that preamp


----------



## M Coupe

Hi All,

I changed the input source over to my SACD and PS Audio DAC and the Woo really shined. I should not have tried it with my cheapo dac. I guess the learning is that both the headphones and WA6-SE scale really well with sources. The analytic high frequencies dissapated and what I was left with was a pleasure to listen too...not to mention the whole package got a lot more holographic. Now I really cannot wait to get the upgraded rectifier. 

Anyway, here is a picture of all the kids playing nice together...I am a proud father


----------



## Dubstep Girl

m coupe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I changed the input source over to my SACD and PS Audio DAC and the Woo really shined. I should not have tried it with my cheapo dac. I guess the learning is that both the headphones and WA6-SE scale really well with sources. The analytic high frequencies dissapated and what I was left with was a pleasure to listen too...not to mention the whole package got a lot more holographic. Now I really cannot wait to get the upgraded rectifier.
> 
> Anyway, here is a picture of all the kids playing nice together...I am a proud father


 
  
 love it!!


----------



## jc9394

m coupe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I changed the input source over to my SACD and PS Audio DAC and the Woo really shined. I should not have tried it with my cheapo dac. I guess the learning is that both the headphones and WA6-SE scale really well with sources. The analytic high frequencies dissapated and what I was left with was a pleasure to listen too...not to mention the whole package got a lot more holographic. Now I really cannot wait to get the upgraded rectifier.
> 
> Anyway, here is a picture of all the kids playing nice together...I am a proud father




Love your Revel, I have the Performa line for home theater. WA6SE scales very well, I have tried few dac before settling down with PWD.


----------



## Silent One

M Coupe, that's a beautiful ensemble. Fellow BMWCCA'er?


----------



## jc9394

Miss WA22 take me to concert tonight...


----------



## Silent One

Last date before eventually breaking up?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Last date before eventually breaking up?


 
  
 Quite possible the last pictures of Miss WA22...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Can't think of it right now, wish I can afford to keep both Miss WA22 and the mistress.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Quite possible the last pictures of Miss WA22...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Except, her departure will aid your future audio development. Keeping her could very well hold you back from discovering the head-fier you're destined to become.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Except, her departure will aid your future audio development. Keeping her could very well hold you back from discovering the head-fier you're destined to become.




You really have the best advice here. Too bad, the few times I'm in CA that we never cross path. One of these day, I will sip Dom with you.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Quite possible the last pictures of Miss WA22...
> ...


 
  
 It is always hard when your children leave home....


----------



## jc9394

One thing for sure is, she will be in good hands if she ever leaves me.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> You really have the best advice here. Too bad, the few times I'm in CA that we never cross path. One of these day, I will sip Dom with you.


 
  
 We shall. _On both coasts..._


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> One thing for sure is, she will be in good hands if she ever leaves me.


 
  





 Trust me, our fellow member will make sure she stays relevant!


----------



## uildo

My first post here.
Just bought my LCD3, and I am deciding which amp I'm gonna buy, thinking about WA5.
- this amp was released I think about 4-5 years ago. Is it still an up-dated equipment?
- is it a good choice connecting my Oppo 103 to my receiver (HT system) and also connect to WA5?
These issues maybe a bit naive, i am still learning.


----------



## M Coupe

I am new here too but just wanted to say welcome and good luck. The folks here on the Woo Audio thread can certainly help.  It might help to share other equipment in your audio chain though.
  
 Again, Welcome!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

uildo said:


> My first post here.
> Just bought my LCD3, and I am deciding which amp I'm gonna buy, thinking about WA5.
> - this amp was released I think about 4-5 years ago. Is it still an up-dated equipment?
> - is it a good choice connecting my Oppo 103 to my receiver (HT system) and also connect to WA5?
> These issues maybe a bit naive, i am still learning.


 
  
 Not sure about up dated, since the amp is a pure tube design. The idea for amps like that have been around for 90+ years.  That said, Jack doesn't make junk.  Anything that he's going to turn out is going to be of the very highest quality available.  The WA-5 is a thing of beauty and sounds incredible.  It will power your LCD 3s with ease and should sound fantastic.  I'm not sure about the receiver...but there are people here that do, and I'm sure they'll give you some advice.  Best of luck!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i feel the same way about WA2 right now, gonna put it up for sale this weekend i think.


----------



## longbowbbs

uildo said:


> My first post here.
> Just bought my LCD3, and I am deciding which amp I'm gonna buy, thinking about WA5.
> - this amp was released I think about 4-5 years ago. Is it still an up-dated equipment?
> - is it a good choice connecting my Oppo 103 to my receiver (HT system) and also connect to WA5?
> These issues maybe a bit naive, i am still learning.


 
  
 I have my Denon DVD-5900 connected to both my Receiver and the 2 channel out to my Decware CSP2+. No problems. I could do that with my Oppo-BDP-83 as well, but the Denon is a top shelf Audio player.


----------



## bobeau

Just a head's up, have an IC on an EML 274b, formerly driving the WA6SE I sold last summer.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2 going up for sale now!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


>


 
  
 there will be tears! i bet there will.....


----------



## Stoids

My WA6-SE came in yesterday. It has definitely met my expectations in driving the HD800s I recently acquired. I have never owned a tube amp before, so I was quite curious as to whether I'd be able to discern these differences amongst tubes that I read about so frequently on these forums. I've always found it rather difficult to really verbalize what I was hearing compared to the intricate details some of you describe. But after listening to the 800s, I've been finding it much easier. So when I finally decided to switch out the 6DE7s for 6EW7s, I was delighted to hear some of the characteristics of the tubes coming through my headphones. It was definitely still the same details being presented, but in a different way -- accentuating different parts of the sound signature. 
  
 I'm ecstatic with my purchase but am especially excited that I have something -- playing with tubes -- to satiate my desire to perfect the music I listen to. I got so excited that I already purchased a Sophia Princess 274b to replace the stock rectifier. Can't wait to hear it.


----------



## bbophead

stoids said:


> My WA6-SE came in yesterday. It has definitely met my expectations in driving the HD800s I recently acquired. I have never owned a tube amp before, so I was quite curious as to whether I'd be able to discern these differences amongst tubes that I read about so frequently on these forums. I've always found it rather difficult to really verbalize what I was hearing compared to the intricate details some of you describe. But after listening to the 800s, I've been finding it much easier. So when I finally decided to switch out the 6DE7s for 6EW7s, I was delighted to hear some of the characteristics of the tubes coming through my headphones. It was definitely still the same details being presented, but in a different way -- accentuating different parts of the sound signature.
> 
> I'm ecstatic with my purchase but am especially excited that I have something -- playing with tubes -- to satiate my desire to perfect the music I listen to. I got so excited that I already purchased a Sophia Princess 274b to replace the stock rectifier. Can't wait to hear it.


 
  
 Congrats!
  
 As a happy WA6 owner, I wanted to make sure you knew about these:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/678818/dallas-tx-sunday-september-29th-2013-big-tex-wears-headphones-too-meetup
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/678382/head-fi-austin-january-18-2014


----------



## Jd007

What?! I thought you are keeping it for the T1 synergy? Is the gsx that good, or you ordered a wa22?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Buying wa22, i hope i like it with T1, should be tube endgame for me.

If not, ill just rebuy wa2 in future

Now... I need help finding adapters..... For 6F8G


----------



## Jd007

dubstep girl said:


> Buying wa22, i hope i like it with T1, should be tube endgame for me.
> 
> If not, ill just rebuy wa2 in future




Ahh I see. Good luck! Good thing the tubes are compatible lol


----------



## nwavesailor

dubstep girl said:


> Buying wa22, i hope i like it with T1, should be tube endgame for me.
> 
> If not, ill just rebuy wa2 in future
> 
> Now... I need help finding adapters..... For 6F8G


 
  
 You may want to check with 2359glenn. I have a pair of his 6SN7 to 6F8G adapters and they are very well made. I have been using them for at least 3 years with no problems.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Thanks yeah i have glenn adapters too, but he seems to always be busy making amps and doing other things. He does make really good adapters though

Any1 ever try these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-596-to-5U4G-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-/290970078813?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf2b0e5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-6F8G-to-6SN7-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-004/290970079162?rt=nc


----------



## nwavesailor

M Couple contacted 2359glenn this week and he is making him a 5U4 to 596 adapter. He makes both and I use both. I have a friend who bought the E-Bay version as well as the ones from Woo and Glenn. He prefers the 2359glenn version although they all work.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Does he make 7n7 and 6cg7 as well?

I need those too for wa22.

Also know how long jack would take or charge?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Does he make 7n7 and 6cg7 as well?
> 
> I need those too for wa22.
> 
> Also know how long jack would take or charge?


 
  
 jack is much more expensive but looks better.  you can have my 596 to 5u4g adapter.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> jack is much more expensive but looks better.  you can have my 596 to 5u4g adapter.


 
  
 i already have one, but thanks. u can still give to me as spare, or just sell yourself. 
  
 i would only need a new 596 adapter if i end up buying one from woo audio, cause then i'd need a matching adapter from woo.


----------



## Glam Bash

dubstep girl said:


> Thanks yeah i have glenn adapters too, but he seems to always be busy making amps and doing other things. He does make really good adapters though
> 
> Any1 ever try these
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I was lucky enough to snatch a 596 and ordered an adapter from the 1st link you posted. When it showed up I was afraid to use it because of the build quality.  I ordered one from 2359glenn as he was about to leave for vacation. When he got back I had a tracking # a few days later. I would MUCH rather use Glenn's adapter.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol so i guess i was right, the chinese ones are crap..., though the 6F8G's look decent....


----------



## Rawrbington

im worried so i have to ask,
 what happened to the TS5998s?
 i noticed they aren't for sale in your ad.


----------



## Glam Bash

I should be more specific. The contacts for the top just sat on top of the pins, whereas Glenn's slide over the whole thing nice and snug like. The 2 wires leading to it were like 22 awg at best -Glenn's look like 14-16awg with the flexible insulation. The cheaper one's base was so hard to push in it made me nervous for the tube socket.  I used it that night just to confirm the tube worked and that was it.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> lol so i guess i was right, the chinese ones are crap..., though the 6F8G's look decent....


 
  
 Don tbuy thossse adapters form China I got stuck with those and had Glenn make me a pair.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rawrbington said:


> im worried so i have to ask,
> what happened to the TS5998s?
> i noticed they aren't for sale in your ad.


 
  
 oh i'm keeping them, they're still running strong. the glass has darkened a bit but they still work great!
  
 of course since i'm upgrading to WA22, been keeping all my power tubes...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

glam bash said:


> I should be more specific. The contacts for the top just sat on top of the pins, whereas Glenn's slide over the whole thing nice and snug like. The 2 wires leading to it were like 22 awg at best -Glenn's look like 14-16awg with the flexible insulation. The cheaper one's base was so hard to push in it made me nervous for the tube socket.  I used it that night just to confirm the tube worked and that was it.


 
  
 ouch, yeah thats what the pics look like for that adapter,  cheap wires, crappy base, and bad build quality overall. i know Glenn's adapters look extremely well made as well as jack's i know are also very good (i had his 6DE7/6GL7 adapters and they where very nice).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Hey guys!!! 5998 pairs super cheap!!!

If i wasnt buying wa22, id buy them all! I only grabbed 1 pair lol

Edit: nvm bought 2

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151128601149


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Hey guys!!! 5998 pairs super cheap!!!
> 
> If i wasnt buying wa22, id buy them all! I only grabbed 1 pair lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Very nice, but I already have 3 pair and I don't even use or like them


----------



## dminches

ultrainferno said:


> Very nice, but I already have 3 pair and I don't even use or like them


 
  
 Unfortunately, ditto.


----------



## dminches

dubstep girl said:


> Hey guys!!! 5998 pairs super cheap!!!
> 
> If i wasnt buying wa22, id buy them all! I only grabbed 1 pair lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now that you have the GEC 6AS7Gs I am surprised you still covet these.  If you answer is a basic tube obsession then I understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 .


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dminches said:


> Now that you have the GEC 6AS7Gs I am surprised you still covet these.  If you answer is a basic tube obsession then I understand
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 nah, at least for WA2, the 5998s mate better with my T1, the GEC are too audiophiley sounding for them, they sound much better with HD 800.
  
 don't know how it'll be with WA22, but i do enjoy TS 5998, its a reference tube worth having several of


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> nah, at least for WA2, the 5998s mate better with my T1, the GEC are too audiophiley sounding for them, they sound much better with HD 800.
> 
> don't know how it'll be with WA22, but i do enjoy TS 5998, its a reference tube worth having several of


 
  
 With WA22, I prefer the TS 7236 a little more than TS 5998 but nothing close to GEC 6AS7G pairing with HD800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

+1
  
 nothing comes close to GEC with HD 800.


----------



## Stoids

Received my Sophia Princess 274b Mesh Plate today. Put it straight into the WA6-SE with RCA 6EW7 and HD800s -- and while I noticed an improvement in soundstage, it was perhaps a tad bit too much in the upper range for my tastes. Swapped out the 6EW7s with RCA 6DE7s and instantly noticed an improvement in all my complaints with the former tube setup. The soundstage and dynamics of the Sophia are still there, but I'm still benefiting from the more tube(y)?? sounds of the DE7s. A bit more warmth there. I think the 6EW7s and Princess present the same type of sound signature, to the point that it was a bit too strong in that direction for me.
  
 Loving the combo. I've read plenty of opinions throughout this thread regarding power tube impressions, but does anyone have any experience with pairing the Princess specifically? Would like to have some good variety/quality to match with it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah 6EW7 and Sophia are very similar sounding.
  
 thats what i used to use, it is a little too forward sounding though, luckily both have rather smooth highs.
  
 the 6DE7 is a fuller sounding more lush tube. its quite tubey.
  
 i would use the 6FD7 for a more balanced presentation or a 6DR7 for a warmer and huge 3D like sound, however, the bass on it is terrible.
  
 those are pretty  much the only tubes. the 6FD7 i find to be very good with the right pairing.
  
 if you like tube warmth like 6DE7 and want more of the same, try out the EML 5U4G someday, or cheaper, maybe the Philips 5R4GY, though its slightly less resolving.


----------



## Silent One

On my beloved _WooAudio WA 6_ _Special Edition_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 drive tube options lasted a full 60 days. Someone get me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 out of here! I knew the glass had to be greener cleaner on the other _side. _So, what did SO do next? I introduced myself to 2359glenn. And from there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a whole new world opened up.
  
 Suddenly, I found myself in a land of 6SN7 drive tubes... they were everywhere, like some sort of invasion. He hooked me up with 7N7 & 7AF7 tubes. And despite paying/using the $260 EML glass, he sold me one of the most beautiful sounding, beautiful looking rectifiers my Woo had ever known. 
  




  
_Okay _





 _we gotta lil' too fired up..._


----------



## bbophead

stoids said:


> Received my Sophia Princess 274b Mesh Plate today. Put it straight into the WA6-SE with RCA 6EW7 and HD800s -- and while I noticed an improvement in soundstage, it was perhaps a tad bit too much in the upper range for my tastes. Swapped out the 6EW7s with RCA 6DE7s and instantly noticed an improvement in all my complaints with the former tube setup. The soundstage and dynamics of the Sophia are still there, but I'm still benefiting from the more tube(y)?? sounds of the DE7s. A bit more warmth there. I think the 6EW7s and Princess present the same type of sound signature, to the point that it was a bit too strong in that direction for me.
> 
> Loving the combo. I've read plenty of opinions throughout this thread regarding power tube impressions, but does anyone have any experience with pairing the Princess specifically? Would like to have some good variety/quality to match with it.


 
  
 I'm sold on the 6FD7 with my Princess and 596.  Stopped rolling.





​


----------



## jc9394

bbophead said:


> I'm sold on the 6FD7 with my Princess and 596.  Stopped rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 With WA6/SE, there is nothing compare to Mullard GZ34 (prefer metal base one) and 6FD7...  get this combo and you will be all set on tube rolling.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think 6fd7 is the most balanced sounding of all the wa6-se tubes, though the others have their uses as well. i like 6ew7, 6fd7, 6l7, etc


----------



## jc9394

i do like the 6EW7 with low impedance phones but like you said the 6fd7 is most balanced one.


----------



## Silent One

My winning Woo combo turned out to be:
  
 VT-231/6SN7GT Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates
 USAF-596


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> My winning Woo combo turned out to be:
> 
> VT-231/6SN7GT Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates
> USAF-596


 
  
 and you never tried the metal base mullard gz34.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> and you never tried the metal base mullard gz34.  :veryevil:




Neither have i and im very excited to soon.

R u getting matched pairs later on?


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> My winning Woo combo turned out to be:
> 
> VT-231/6SN7GT Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates
> USAF-596


 
  
 with the 22?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Neither have i and im very excited to soon.
> 
> R u getting matched pairs later on?


 
  
 yes, most likely has to be next year.  i love the gz34's dynamic sound signature.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > My winning Woo combo turned out to be:
> ...


 
  
_WA 6 Special Edition_


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> and you never tried the metal base mullard gz34.


 
  
 Flashback:
  
 Before fellow member shipsupt got me to try the GZ34 | 37, I sent the Woo to Singapore to a most wonderful audiophile. And replaced it with the 2359glenn amp (OTL) pictured right.


----------



## jc9394

I should have know that SO roll like DG, but but but that still ain't metal base...


----------



## Silent One

My latest adventure has a pair of NOS Seimen F2a; NOS ECL82; pair of NOS 6AU4GTA's and no interest to roll. If I want a different sound:
  
 - Change source; cables; music
 - Change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 amps


----------



## M Coupe

I might be a future tube roller LOL! I have 2 princess sophia 274bs and 2 USAF 596s coming in this week. Also, I have the driver tube starter kit I bought from DG. BTW, thanks SO! Great folks on this forum.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Double 596s!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> Double 596s!!!


 
  
 Every night!


----------



## M Coupe

because 1 is glorious and 2 is piece of mind


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Dubstep Girl

m coupe said:


> because 1 is glorious and 2 is piece of mind




I think ill have 5 of them after this next one


----------



## M Coupe

wow!


----------



## musicman59

dubstep girl said:


> I think ill have 5 of them after this next one


 
 I have 6 (3 pair) for my WA5-LE and I am not selling any of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I sold 40 and ended up getting one as a gift from ClaytonSF cause I didn't keep any for myself


----------



## Pudu

ultrainferno said:


> I sold 40 and ended up getting one as a gift from ClaytonSF cause I didn't keep any for myself :rolleyes:







silent one said:


> My latest adventure has a pair of NOS Seimen F2a; NOS ECL82; pair of NOS 6AU4GTA's and no interest to roll. If I want a different sound:
> 
> - Change source; cables; music
> - Change :tongue_smile:  amps








dubstep girl said:


> Double 596s!!!







longbowbbs said:


> Every night!







m coupe said:


> because 1 is glorious and 2 is piece of mind







musicman59 said:


> I have 6 (3 pair) for my WA5-LE and I am not selling any of them  !






You all know you have a problem, right?

The first step is admitting it.



And I believe step two is _share the wealth_ .... isn't it?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pudu said:


> You all know you have a problem, right?
> 
> The first step is admitting it.
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

pudu said:


> You all know you have a problem, right?
> 
> The first step is admitting it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What is that???


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> I have 6 (3 pair) for my WA5-LE and I am not selling any of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I may have to sell my remaining stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




to afford the Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 Headphone cable I just ordered a hot minute ago.


----------



## anasztasia

My 6sn7 to 6f8g adapters arrived a couple of days ago and 6f8g totally open up the sound compared to 6sn7. 

Then this morning a lovely box arrived at my office desk. A pair of usaf 596 from SO has finally arrived!
I stole a few minutes on lunch break to have a listen and boy does this mighty tube opens up a whole new level to my listening experience! Soundstage is so wide and there's more air between notes. Separation and clarity also went up to a new level! 

Afterwork i was hooked on my sofa tube rolling! Yes im officially a self proclaimed tube roller now  
After some back and forth switching though i felt that sophia 274b has an advantage in term of impact/bass. Could this be the price to pay to have a wider soundstage and more clarity im not sure but one thing for sure im not coming back to sophia. I am really hearing new details/nuances with usaf596 that i couldnt hear previously with sophia. 

So far my best combination is usaf596, national union 6f8g, and the stock shuguang 300b that came with wa5le (i know i know but im still undecided of what will i get, suggestions are greatly appreciated!).

Thanks again Silent One for introducing this fine tube to me! 
Oh and I ordered saa endorphin cable for the hd800 a week ago. This hobby really doesn't go well with bank account... 

Now if anyone has a pair of NU 6f8g or usaf596 they want to part with...


----------



## jc9394

anasztasia said:


> My 6sn7 to 6f8g adapters arrived a couple of days ago and 6f8g totally open up the sound compared to 6sn7.
> 
> Then this morning a lovely box arrived at my office desk. A pair of usaf 596 from SO has finally arrived!
> I stole a few minutes on lunch break to have a listen and boy does this mighty tube opens up a whole new level to my listening experience! Soundstage is so wide and there's more air between notes. Separation and clarity also went up to a new level!
> ...


 
  
 Good luck finding them...


----------



## Silent One

anasztasia said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

SO, you hooking up a buddy with more 596?


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Good luck finding them...


 
  
 I've been preoccupied this past spring/summer. But, will quietly begin to look for more USAF-596 glass this autumn.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Hopefully u can find another mighty 596 group buy, then i can buy like 10 of them  a 5998/gec 6as7g group buy would be nice too...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> SO, you hooking up a buddy with more 596?


 
  
 Now that M Coupe has gotten taken care of, I'm going to keep the three singles I've got remaining. I always wanna have at least two on hand. I may be looking for a matched pair all over again soon, though. Jack Wu has rekindled our dialogue over the WA5. I still have to stuff tea tins and save 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 if this is to happen.
  
 Our talks have been over specs, which is why I haven't upped and bought the thing already. No no, my Woo gotta be _Spec'd out; Blacked out_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Meanwhile, anyone want to buy 3 vintage stereo receivers and a house plant?


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> Hopefully u can find another mighty 596 group buy, then i can buy like 10 of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 A Group Buy is what I intend. But, in the event I fail, I'll simply turn to you _for my next rec... _


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Hopefully u can find another mighty 596 group buy, then i can buy like 10 of them  a 5998/gec 6as7g group buy would be nice too...




I tried a group buy with GEC 6080 and 6AS7G many moons ago but at the time everyone think is too expensive for a tube that they never heard before. I should have keep more, sold two pair of 6AS7G to fund the beta22.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Now that M Coupe has gotten taken care of, I'm going to keep the three singles I've got remaining. I always wanna have at least two on hand. I may be looking for a matched pair all over again soon, though. Jack Wu has rekindled our dialogue over the WA5. I still have to stuff tea tins and save :rolleyes:  if this is to happen.
> 
> Our talks have been over specs, which is why I haven't upped and bought the thing already. No no, my Woo gotta be _Spec'd out; Blacked out_. :veryevil:
> 
> Meanwhile, anyone want to buy 3 vintage stereo receivers and a house plant?




You mean totally stuffed with the BGs? Can't wait to see what you are up to.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> You mean totally stuffed with the BGs? Can't wait to see what you are up to.


 
  
 I'm willing to skip to goodies inside and go with standard parts - _to be modified at a later date_ - but requested Siemens C3g drive tubes to supplant the 6SN7s and K1K Ouputs on both WA5 monoblocks with 3-pin XLR connectors.
  
 But extra time, money and testing is involved, which is why I elected to revisit the purchase and bought the _other_ kit.
  
 Their current WA5 monoblocks for those who may not have seen them the first time around:


----------



## jc9394

Your other kit kick some serious *****, nice looking WA5 mono block... I bet it is not in my price range...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Your other kit kick some serious *****, nice looking WA5 mono block... I bet it is not in my price range...


 
  
 In order to save money (and stop eating Ramen everyday), if I'm asked to purchase the standard WA5, so be it!


----------



## jc9394

Ramen is good. What I meant is the mrs will kill me if buy it...


----------



## Silent One

Yeah... I need to be considerate as well. Better to appreciate few gears with peace of mind. Than to play with more gears around a cold shoulder.


----------



## jc9394

Come to think of it, we are lucky to have all these toys. When I grow up, I can never afford any of these.


----------



## Silent One

I have a deep appreciation for life and the precious moments that fill it. I remember the day I took delivery of my Woo. Despite lusting after the '5,' the '6 SE' was the only amp on my mind that weekend. Learning to live in the moment is a wonderful thing. 
  
 Yesterday afternoon, I enjoyed listening to my iPod over tea - nothing else mattered in that moment, either. Luckily, I just happened to have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 great songs and quality Jasmine Pearls.


----------



## ru4music

silent one said:


> I'm willing to skip to goodies inside and go with standard parts - _to be modified at a later date_ - but requested *Siemens C3g drive tubes *to supplant the 6SN7s and K1K Ouputs on both WA5 monoblocks with 3-pin XLR connectors.
> 
> But extra time, money and testing is involved, which is why I elected to revisit the purchase and bought the _other_ kit.
> 
> Their current WA5 monoblocks for those who may not have seen them the first time around:


 
  
 Yes, the venerable C3g tube.  I'm sitting on a stash of C3m tubes (20v heater) myself.  What mode (pentode or triode) are you planning to run to drive the 300bs?


----------



## Silent One

ru4music said:


> Yes, the venerable C3g tube.  I'm sitting on a stash of C3m tubes (20v heater) myself.  What mode (pentode or triode) are you planning to run to drive the 300bs?


 
  
 After passing on the both the WA234 and WA5 monoblocks, I eventually decided to purchase the Yamamoto A-09S. And it uses the C3m. After working out a deal with the North American distributor for Yamamoto (was also buying a DAC and Preamp), I made the 11th hour decision to go with Shindo Labs.
  
 If I return to a custom Woo, it will be the C3g drive tubes. And either the EML or Takatsuki Glass in the Power slots.


----------



## Clayton SF

I've actually seen Shindo Labs amps on display but have never heard one. I can't wait until you get to listen to yours so that you can report back. When do you think that you'll get to give them a listen?


----------



## ru4music

silent one said:


> After passing on the both the WA234 and WA5 monoblocks, I eventually decided to purchase the Yamamoto A-09S. And it uses the C3m. After working out a deal with the North American distributor for Yamamoto (was also buying a DAC and Preamp), I made the 11th hour decision to go with Shindo Labs.
> 
> If I return to a custom Woo, it will be the C3g drive tubes. And either the EML or Takatsuki Glass in the Power slots.


 
 If you do return to the Woo custom you may want run pentode mode with the C3g as it will give higher gain and still very low distortion (I believe the C3m will give even higher gain.)  From my research people prefer the C3g/C3m in pentode mode with 300b tube stating that it gives a more dynamic presentation due to the increased gain factor (something to discuss with Jack Wu.)
  
 BTW, how is the Shindo coming?  Did you receive your silver interconnects yet?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> After passing on the both the WA234 and WA5 monoblocks, I eventually decided to purchase the Yamamoto A-09S. And it uses the C3m. After working out a deal with the North American distributor for Yamamoto (was also buying a DAC and Preamp), I made the 11th hour decision to go with Shindo Labs.
> 
> If I return to a custom Woo, it will be the C3g drive tubes. And either the EML or Takatsuki Glass in the Power slots.




We are really brothers, I'm contacting my friends in Asia about both EAT and Takatsuki. My Japanese colleague in Osaka know a place have Takatsuki in stock, I just need a trip there to carry that baby home.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I've actually seen Shindo Labs amps on display but have never heard one. I can't wait until you get to listen to yours so that you can report back. When do you think that you'll get to give them a listen?


 
  
 Pitch Perfect Audio is putting the finishing touches on the new Hollywood studio. I've already visited twice but would have only been able to hear one or two items. Hopefully next week, he'll let me hear the entire Shindo line from the 300B monos on down. Along with those fantastic looking LaTour Field Coils. 
  
 Of course, I'll listen to my setup there as well. Can take my gear at any time. New headphone cable arrives in two weeks, so maybe next week! Matt just moved the studio in August from 950 Harrison St, San Francisco. Did you visit the last few years he was there?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> We are really brothers, I'm contacting my friends in Asia about both EAT and Takatsuki. My Japanese colleague in Osaka know a place have Takatsuki in stock, I just need a trip there to carry that baby home.


 
  
 I want to take my first trip to Japan in the Spring, schedule permitting. Maybe I can bring back some audio goodness.


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Did you visit the last few years he was there?


 
 Yes I did. I bought my Leben CS-300XS and CS-600 from Matt--a Gentleman most perfect in every sense of the word. I will miss his Northern California Showroom as well as his warm personality.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> Yes I did. I bought my Leben CS-300XS and CS-600 from Matt--a Gentleman most perfect in every sense of the word. I will miss his Northern California Showroom as well as his warm personality.


 
  
 Though, I didn't know you sourced your Leben gear from Matt, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I knew you happened by that showroom at some point. What were you able to listen to when there? You might have to make a Day Trip - hang out with the SoCal contingent and visit Matt while you're here!
  
 Gonna tell him you said "Hello..."


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Though, I didn't know you sourced your Leben gear from Matt,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I auditioned the Leben RS-30EQ phono preamplifier. I brought along some vinyl LPs of mine and we listened one afternoon. Just the two of us along with a whole lot of Shindo Labs amps looking on. He actually hand-delivered the CS-600 to my doorstep.
  
 Yes, please say hello to Matt for me and give him my regards.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I auditioned the Leben RS-30EQ phono preamplifier. I brought along some vinyl LPs of mine and we listened one afternoon. Just the two of us along with a whole lot of Shindo Labs amps looking on. He actually hand-delivered the CS-600 to my doorstep.
> 
> Yes, please say hello to Matt for me and give him my regards.


 
  
 I will indeed. He won't be surprised by what a close-knit group we head-fiers are. The only reservations I have about my kit is that it's voiced for the magic of efficient speakers. Unsure how my experiment with cans are going to play out. 
  
 But I like adventure!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got my 5998 pairs i bought!
  
 omg they're like absolutely new with perfectly clean labels and glass, etc.
  
  

  
 tempted to buy more, but need to save money for WA22 + other tubes and also re-buy RS1i. they're like $120 a pair!!


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> just got my 5998 pairs i bought!
> 
> omg they're like absolutely new with perfectly clean labels and glass, etc.


 
  
  
 Very nice!  This coming from a 5998 guy..!  5998 envy ...!! ... only over-ridden by GECs!!!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dubstep girl said:


> just got my 5998 pairs i bought!
> 
> omg they're like absolutely new with perfectly clean labels and glass, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Rock on.  Sounds like you might be ready for the WE421s...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> Rock on.  Sounds like you might be ready for the WE421s...


 
  
  
 i am, if they are actually better than 5998...


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dubstep girl said:


> i am, if they are actually better than 5998...


 
  
 I have both for my WA22 and I don't find that one over the other makes a huge difference.  I'm sure there are those out there who would consider me a Philistine for even suggesting that the WE421s are not the bee's knees, but I don't hear much difference.  I think that the drivers and rectifiers make a much bigger impact on the SQ than the power tubes, but YMMV.


----------



## Silent One

Dubstep Girl, they look just like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




candy!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> I have both for my WA22 and I don't find that one over the other makes a huge difference.  I'm sure there are those out there who would consider me a Philistine for even suggesting that the WE421s are not the bee's knees, but I don't hear much difference.  I think that the drivers and rectifiers make a much bigger impact on the SQ than the power tubes, but YMMV.


 
  
 depends on the amp's design.
  
 on the WA2, the power tube makes the biggest difference.
  
 and so u can't tell that the  WE 421a are better or not?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dubstep girl said:


> depends on the amp's design.
> 
> on the WA2, the power tube makes the biggest difference.
> 
> and so u can't tell that the  WE 421a are better or not?


 
  
 They are a bit better, but they aren't $250 better, imho.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> They are a bit better, but they aren't $250 better, imho.


 
  
  
 oh for me they would be lol. if they really are better, i am definitely getting a pair.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dubstep girl said:


> oh for me they would be lol. if they really are better, i am definitely getting a pair.


 
  
 Cool.  I only paid $375 for my pair... Starts making the amp look cheap after a while.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol


----------



## Dubstep Girl

375 a pair isnt too bad, they seem to be going 400s -500s a pair, cheaper than gec 6as7g


----------



## Clayton SF

Ultrainferno gifted me a pair of 5998s. They were in my WA22 for a few CDs. They sound a little too bright and ss for my taste. I actually prefer the RCA 6AS7s over the 5998s in my WA2 (now sold) and my WA22 (still have). So they are back in the box until my hearing changes. Perhaps I will like them better with different tubes. I was using the Brimar CV1863 and CBS 6SN7GTB. I'll try the GZ37 today.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Ultrainferno gifted me a pair of 5998s. They were in my WA22 for a few CDs. They sound a little too bright and ss for my taste. I actually prefer the RCA 6AS7s over the 5998s in my WA2 (now sold) and my WA22 (still have). So they are back in the box until my hearing changes. Perhaps I will like them better with different tubes. I was using the Brimar CV1863 and CBS 6SN7GTB. I'll try the GZ37 today.


 
  
 I fully agree with you, that's why I gave them to you. I kid I kid, I got them just for you but I do not like my 5998s either and I have several pairs in my storage


----------



## Pudu

I feel bad for all you good people having to store this fragile glass you don't like.

I can help. 

When you need it, just ask.


----------



## Pudu

galaxyguy said:


> I have both for my WA22 and I don't find that one over the other makes a huge difference.  I'm sure there are those out there who would consider me a Philistine for even suggesting that the WE421s are not the bee's knees, but I don't hear much difference.  I think that the drivers and rectifiers make a much bigger impact on the SQ than the power tubes, but YMMV.




Also, GalaxyGuy, you sound more like a heathen than a philistine. (If you use a capital letter, isn't it racist? - Just saying.)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

after i get WA22, i must seek out a pair of WE 421A, also maybe a WE422A rectifier i've been looking at.
  
 or even these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (yeah this unfortunately will never happen).
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-274A-Engraved-Globe-Tubes-Balloon-100-TESTED-/300971856859?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item46135213db


----------



## jc9394

I take two pairs please.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just bumped my WA2 for sale
  
 someone buy it so i can upgrade to WA22!!!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> just bumped my WA2 for sale
> 
> someone buy it so i can upgrade to WA22!!!


 
  
 Are you reeeeeaaaaly sure you aint gonna keep it?


----------



## Clayton SF

I need to do a little dusting off of them tubes.
 I have to say that the 5998s do look great though.
 It looks as though I'm trapped inside those tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Are you reeeeeaaaaly sure you aint gonna keep it?


 
  
 no money for both right now.
  
 and i can always buy it back, if i miss it but also enjoy the WA22, and then i'll be just like you.


----------



## jc9394

If you don't like the wa22, I will find a way to buy it back. I never thought I will sell it.


----------



## Clayton SF

I never thought that I'd sell my WA2.


----------



## Silent One

Never thought I'd part with my Black _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition,_ either.


----------



## longbowbbs

The lure of the hobby keeps us all questing.....


----------



## Silent One

I only sold mine because a gentleman asked - I never listed or intended to sell it. A fine gentleman, that fellow was...


----------



## Clayton SF

I sold mine because I didn't want to have it shipped back to the U.S. if Ultra had it in his possession. Besides it would have cost Ultra- UltraCash to ship it back to me.


----------



## M Coupe

I am just getting my WA6-SE setup how I like it and all you fine folks are moving on.  I feel like I am being held back a grade while you all are moving on...Oh well I finally get to be a 5th year senior for the first time in my life I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .  In all seriousness, congrats on all the upgrades.  I am eager to hear impressions.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

m coupe said:


> I am just getting my WA6-SE setup how I like it and all you fine folks are moving on.  I feel like I am being held back a grade while you all are moving on...Oh well I finally get to be a 5th year senior for the first time in my life I guess   .  In all seriousness, congrats on all the upgrades.  I am eager to hear impressions.




Im pretty sure i will like the wa22 alot, ive been interested in it since i first joined head-fi. And i feel the same way as you , even now, and even when i had wa6-se. Just choose a spot where to end or keep going, its about fun and music in the end,


----------



## atomicbob

DG, what happened to the plans for a ZDSE?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I listened to one for a few days and it wasnt for me. Its pretty good though


----------



## Silent One

Short & sweet.._._



_ I like that!_


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> I listened to one for a few days and it wasnt for me. Its pretty good though




That is how I feel too, maybe we all like the Woo signature better...


----------



## Icenine2

clayton sf said:


> I never thought that I'd sell my WA2.


 
  
 I never thought I'd sell my WA22 but I listened to a Liquid Fire and...............boom!  Listen to a Liquid Gold and they'll have to pry the phones off your head before you'll want to give them up.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what did u think of LF vs WA22?


----------



## Clayton SF

icenine2 said:


> I never thought I'd sell my WA22 but I listened to a Liquid Fire and...............boom!  Listen to a Liquid Gold and they'll have to pry the phones off your head before you'll want to give them up.


 
  
 Hah! My LF is #15. What is your serial number? I want to send mine off to Ultra- for a year to see if he likes it but shipping costs are huge. So I may have to have him take it back with him.


----------



## jc9394

The LF/LG are great amp but they don't react too much with tube rolling, it leaves out the tube rolling fun.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> The LF/LG are great amp but they don't react too much with tube rolling, it leaves out the tube rolling fun.


 
  
 That why I like the LF. I don't have to worry about tube rolling--just music rotation.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> The LF/LG are great amp but they don't react too much with tube rolling, it leaves out the tube rolling fun.


 
  
 i thought LG was supposed to be a tube rollers dream amp.
  
 and so i guess no1s gonna be putting in a quad of Siemen CCa or Amperex PQ whites into the LF anytime soon huh


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> ... and so i guess no1s gonna be putting in a quad of Siemen CCa or Amperex PQ whites into the LF anytime soon huh


 
  
 Your right! I still have the stock tubes. I may want to go with some Gold Lions though. But right now I'm used to the sound of the LF. The LF and WA22 are two different sounds though. It is hard to explain but listening to a WA22 is like a gentle rain with occasional gusts of wind. The LF is like gusty winds and sheets of rain--all in a good way.
  
 Some like gentle rain. Some like it not.


----------



## Silent One

I really like the sound of your descriptions!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I am not a fan of woo audio *sarcasm*


----------



## Clayton SF

OMG. So how much does it weigh without the tubes?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

visceriouszero said:


> I am not a fan of woo audio *sarcasm*


 
  
 OMG


----------



## VisceriousZERO

clayton sf said:


> OMG. So how much does it weigh without the tubes?




Frickin heavy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so r u gonna post pictures of it all setup with double mighty 596s?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

dubstep girl said:


> so r u gonna post pictures of it all setup with double mighty 596s?




I'll definitely try. My dad passed on a speaker setup down to me so I'll see what I can do... Will test the Abyss with them as well.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Hah! My LF is #15. What is your serial number? I want to send mine off to Ultra- for a year to see if he likes it but shipping costs are huge. So I may have to have him take it back with him.


 
  
 My poor back!! I have no idea what to get as a next amp :/ I first need a new DAC!
  


dubstep girl said:


> OMG


 
  
 +1


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> visceriouszero said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 +2!


----------



## jc9394

+3, never dream of these in the wild. Impression please...


----------



## penofeggs

No worry, it's just kidding
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, stay tuned and see how many of us would register here.


----------



## Icenine2

clayton sf said:


> Hah! My LF is #15. What is your serial number? I want to send mine off to Ultra- for a year to see if he likes it but shipping costs are huge. So I may have to have him take it back with him.


 
  
 #4 Clayton!


----------



## Icenine2

jc9394 said:


> The LF/LG are great amp but they don't react too much with tube rolling, it leaves out the tube rolling fun.


 
  
 Get a Liquid Glass then and roll away........!


----------



## Icenine2

dubstep girl said:


>


 
  
 The LF outperformed the WA22 in every way.


----------



## Clayton SF

icenine2 said:


> #4 Clayton!


 
  
 We are the First Gens.


----------



## ru4music

clayton sf said:


> Your right! I still have the stock tubes. I may want to go with some Gold Lions though. But right now I'm used to the sound of the LF. The LF and WA22 are two different sounds though. It is hard to explain but listening to a WA22 is like a *gentle rain* with occasional gusts of wind. The LF is like gusty winds and *sheets of rain*--all in a good way.
> 
> Some like gentle rain. Some like it not.


 
 Clayton, I think your all "*wet*" with that description,  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (sorry, someone had to say it!)
  
 Pardon my ignorance and please excuse my sense of humor, but what does LF stand for (Liquid F?)  I know the LG is Cavalli Liquid Glass.


----------



## jc9394

Liquid Fire.


----------



## ru4music

ru4music said:


> Clayton, I think your all "*wet*" with that description,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Never mind, I assume it's the Liquid Fire by Cavalli.


----------



## ru4music

jc9394 said:


> Liquid Fire.


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Clayton SF

ru4music said:


> Clayton, I think your all "*wet*" with that description,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 WHAT?
  
 I'm happy again.
 The song's in my heart.
  
 When I listen to music!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> WHAT?
> 
> I'm happy again.
> The song's in my heart.
> ...




  
 i really enjoyed that!


----------



## ru4music

clayton sf said:


> WHAT?
> 
> I'm happy again.
> The song's in my heart.
> ...




  
  
 Lol!  Is that you?  You look good for your age and I hope your IEMs and IPod are water proof!


----------



## ru4music

visceriouszero said:


> I am not a fan of woo audio *sarcasm*


 
  
  
 So frick'n tempting!  I might have to make trip to RMAF to have an audition and a conversation with the Wu(s).  Seriously... !
  
 Looking forward to your impressions...


----------



## ru4music

Any other Woo/ other  activists planning a trip to the RMAF?


----------



## jc9394

Every year I have plan to go and yet every year something's come up...


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> Every year I have plan to go and yet every year something's come up...


 
  
 +1 to that!


----------



## ru4music

longbowbbs said:


> +1 to that!


 
  
  
 Well, if any of you should be there (which includes myself) please let me know so we can say "hi" and shake hands at least. 
  
 Take Care,
 Ken


----------



## longbowbbs

Not this year. I had a meeting come up that got in the way. I am penciling in 2014...Fingers are crossed!


----------



## jc9394

Same here, a tentative business meeting in Chicago.:mad:


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Same here, a tentative business meeting in Chicago.


----------



## longbowbbs

Dallas for me....


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> :tongue_smile:




If time allow, I will PM you. Not sure how far you are from Deerfield... Just check google map, it is an hour away, which means two hours in Chicago traffic...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> If time allow, I will PM you. Not sure how far you are from Deerfield... Just check google map, it is an hour away, which means two hours in Chicago traffic...


 
  
 nah traffic usually isn't a problem for me.


----------



## M Coupe

Used to live in Evanston...sigh


----------



## M Coupe

Just saw this ebay ad for four 596 tubes and 2 woo adaptors. I know lots of folks on this thread are looking so figured I would post....hope that is okay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Four-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tubes-w-pair-of-Woo-Audio-adapters-/121185739776?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c373ba400#ht_63wt_1156


----------



## Dubstep Girl

m coupe said:


> Just saw this ebay ad for four 596 tubes and 2 woo adaptors. I know lots of folks on this thread are looking so figured I would post....hope that is okay.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Four-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tubes-w-pair-of-Woo-Audio-adapters-/121185739776?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c373ba400#ht_63wt_1156


 
  
 sigh...
  
 i should of bought this when i still needed 596 adapters, then it would of been like 425 buy it now, thats 100$ a tube....
  
 hmmm, i guess i already have 5 mighty 596's...


----------



## M Coupe

go ahead and buy them...596 futures


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no too poor.
  
 i need to buy the following first:
  
 a GEC U52, a Western Electric 422A, a Cossor GZ37 fat, a pair of Western Electric 421A, a pair of Bendix 6080wb slotted, and also need to buy some more 6SN7s. oh and new cables for my headphones.


----------



## ru4music

m coupe said:


> Just saw this ebay ad for four 596 tubes and 2 woo adaptors. I know lots of folks on this thread are looking so figured I would post....hope that is okay.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Four-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tubes-w-pair-of-Woo-Audio-adapters-/121185739776?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c373ba400#ht_63wt_1156


 
  
  
 Thanks, purchased!  Love my WA 2 setup.  But, look'n ahead...I joke, but I'm extremely serious about mt my music.  Thanks for the lead!
  
 Ken


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> Thanks, purchased!  Love my WA 2 setup.  But, look'n ahead...I joke, but I'm extremely serious about mt my music.  Thanks for the lead!
> 
> Ken


 
  
 nice!!


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> no too poor.
> 
> i need to buy the following first:
> 
> a GEC U52, a Western Electric 422A, a Cossor GZ37 fat, a pair of *Western Electric 421A*, a pair of *Bendix 6080wb slotted*, and also need to buy some more 6SN7s. oh and new cables for my headphones.


 
 Sure, I had a bead line towards a NOS pair of WE 421As for $379 a pair and some girl who loves dubstep musica sayed,  "NO, spend your money on GEC."  We'll, I have lost all control and purchased the Mighty 596'ers...  Woo 234 or 22 here I come...  I'm actually agnostic, as I hold a undergraduate BS degree in EE/ MIS/ and CS and I'm torn between designing my own system, but Jack Wu (and selected others) is/ are sincerely master designers.  The more I demo his amps the more I respect his decisions in design, truly an artisan. Oh well, that and $.25 will buy y'all a cup of coffee( except in LA, it's more like $ 25.00.. enjoy the Latte!)
  
 Ken


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> Sure, I had a bead line towards a NOS pair of WE 421As for $379 a pair and some girl who loves dubstep musica sayed,  "NO, spend your money on GEC."  We'll, I have lost all control and purchased the Mighty 596'ers...  Woo 234 or 22 here I come...  I'm actually agnostic, as I hold a undergraduate BS degree in EE/ MIS/ and CS and I'm torn between designing my own system, but Jack Wu (and selected others) is/ are sincerely master designers.  The more I demo his amps the more I respect his decisions in design, truly an artisan. Oh well, that and $.25 will buy y'all a cup of coffee( except in LA, it's more like $ 25.00.. enjoy the Latte!)
> 
> Ken


 
  
 yeah im pretty sure GEC will be better. buying the WE 421A just to compare to 5998 and to have for bragging rights, but im sure the GEC are still better.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> nice!!


 
  
  
  
 DG, what is the going price for the Woo 596 adapters?  I find myself following (at times) blindly the Head-fi crew/ leads (not a bad thing) as I have generally a genuine common sense approach towards my purchases.
  
 Ken


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> DG, what is the going price for the Woo 596 adapters?  I find myself following (at times) blindly the Head-fi crew/ leads (not a bad hing) as I have generally a genuine common sense approach towards my purchases.
> 
> Ken


 
  
 i bought some for 90 a pair from someone. 
  
 i know jack sells them 50 each or so, i think its like 105 shipped from him if u buy a pair. 
  
 im interested in buying a pair of 7N7 and 6CG7 adapters from him in the future. but yeah u can see the stuff in this thread, his prices are there too http://www.head-fi.org/t/548267/new-product-universal-teflon-tube-adapter


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *ru4music* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Oh well, that and $.25 will buy y'all a cup of coffee( *except in LA, it's more like $ 25.00*.. enjoy the Latte!)
> ...


 
  
 But... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 actors/actresses are in between gigs.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> i bought some for 90 a pair from someone.
> 
> i know jack sells them 50 each or so, i think its like 105 shipped from him if u buy a pair.
> 
> im interested in buying a pair of 7N7 and 6CG7 adapters from him in the future. but yeah u can see the stuff in this thread, his prices are there too http://www.head-fi.org/t/548267/new-product-universal-teflon-tube-adapter


 
 Thanks for the info.  Still look'n forward to find a pair of the GECs as the WA 2 system is really sounded great!  Thanks again DG !!!


----------



## ru4music

silent one said:


> But...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'm sorry but I think you need to address this with the union!  Whoa ...!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> no too poor.
> 
> i need to buy the following first:
> 
> a GEC U52, a Western Electric 422A, a Cossor GZ37 fat, a pair of Western Electric 421A,* a pair of Bendix 6080wb slotted*, and also need to buy some more 6SN7s. oh and new cables for my headphones.


 
 BTW, my Bendix are not slotted like I originally thought.  They are solid, but exceptional in all sonic character and presentation.  I believe the slotted version provides earlier heat equalization across the graphite plates (I prefer 4-8 hours warm up for extreme performance.)  My TS 6080 WB graphite's are of a slightly different configuration and a slight step below in overall performance from the Bendix.  The TS sound good but are extremely sensitive to micro phonics.
  
 Ken


----------



## ru4music

ru4music said:


> BTW, my Bendix are not slotted like I originally thought.  They are solid, but exceptional in all sonic character and presentation.  I believe the slotted version provides earlier heat equalization across the graphite plates (I prefer 4-8 hours warm up for extreme performance.)  My TS 6080 WB graphite's are of a slightly different configuration and a slight step below in overall performance from the Bendix.  The TS sound good but are extremely sensitive to micro phonics.
> 
> Ken


 
  
  
 Crap, I forgot to say if you find a reasonable pair of Bendix/ TS  6080 WB graphites... buy them, they are absolutely great.  Everyone should have them in their line-up if they care about their sound!
  
 Ken


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> no too poor.
> 
> i need to buy the following first:
> 
> a GEC U52, a Western Electric 422A, a Cossor GZ37 fat, a pair of Western Electric 421A, a pair of Bendix 6080wb slotted, and also need to buy some more 6SN7s. oh and new cables for my headphones.




Want to borrow my balanced Silver Dragon for LCD until you get yours? I have no use now until I get to buy the LCD3 (maybe 4) next year.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Want to borrow my balanced Silver Dragon for LCD until you get yours? I have no use now until I get to buy the LCD3 (maybe 4) next year.


 
  
 is 4 coming out next year? has it been announced or only word is closed audeze as of now?
  
 oooh yeah i wouldn't mind borrowing silver dragon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 then i can see if its worth placing an order with moon audio for my cables.  last time i had one of their cables i loved it, but it was blue dragon old version on hd 650s.


----------



## jc9394

No rumor, it is just my hope. Sure, I will ship it along with the tubes.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> is 4 coming out next year? has it been announced or only word is closed audeze as of now?
> 
> oooh yeah i wouldn't mind borrowing silver dragon
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are two headphones neing released at the RMAF one is priced in between the 2 and 3 and is open no wood headphone. The other is the closed phone and not sure of the pricing on that one.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> There ar etwo headphones neing released at the RMAF one is priced in between the 2 and 3 and is open no wood headphone/. The other is the closed phone and not sure of the priceing on that one.


 
  
 should be exciting


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> There are two headphones neing released at the RMAF one is priced in between the 2 and 3 and is open no wood headphone. The other is the closed phone and not sure of the pricing on that one.


 
  
 open no wood?
  
 interesting....
  
 if its priced it between, it hopefully doesn't outperform the LCD-3.
  
 and the mad dog is the response to audeze's closed back. it'll be interesting to see how they compare.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> open no wood?
> 
> interesting....
> 
> ...


 
  
 the headphone priced between 2 and 3 is a Audeze?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> open no wood?
> 
> interesting....
> 
> ...


 
  
 I kind of prefer no wood, it makes the headphone too heavy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I kind of prefer no wood, it makes the headphone too heavy.


 
  
 yeah would be nice.
  
 hopefully they don't come up with something as ugly as abyss, or as beautiful but flawed like the grado ps1000.


----------



## boliainima

Right,I leave both plugged in all the time to show off the matching Furutech plugs.thanks


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yeah would be nice.
> 
> hopefully they don't come up with something as ugly as abyss, or as beautiful but flawed like the grado ps1000.


 
  
 Kind of prefer something like AT, love their design, simple.


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> Kind of prefer something like AT, love their design, simple.


 
  
 Just get yourself a pair of the ATH W3000ANVs.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Just get yourself a pair of the ATH W3000ANVs.


 
  
 that will be my next move when i visit japan next year if they still have it


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> that will be my next move when i visit japan next year if they still have it


 
  
 they are harde rto get now


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> they are harde rto get now


 
  
 i know, i won't kill myself to fine one.  maybe a STAX take it's place while I'm in Japan or another camera lens?


----------



## jc9394

I need a pair of this bad...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Western-Electric-300B-Tube-NOS-NIB-100-NEW-TESTED-/300971861834


----------



## Clayton SF

2 offers already this morning (8:44).


----------



## jc9394

jc9394 said:


> I need a pair of this bad...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Western-Electric-300B-Tube-NOS-NIB-100-NEW-TESTED-/300971861834


 
  
 Seriously considering this new WE 300B...let see what else I can sell.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-Matched-Pair-Test-as-new-Amplitrex-tester-/300977593867


----------



## Pudu

Ya, but the first pair come with free shipping.

 FREE SHIPPING DUDE! :eek:


----------



## jc9394

pudu said:


> Ya, but the first pair come with free shipping.
> 
> FREE SHIPPING DUDE!


 
  
 Yeah, I love FREE SHIPPING...  Since it is from HK, I will ask HK head-fier to check them out first...


----------



## jc9394

Calling SO...
  

  

  

 出力
 338W（モノラル8Ω）, 180W（ステレオ8Ω）

 使用真空管
 6550 x 12, 12BH7 x 6, 12AX7 x 2, 12AU7 x 2


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> Calling SO...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh no....I have drool on my keyboard...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Calling SO...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That 'Air Tight' is gonna have to stay airtight and get released 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with someone else's dough.


----------



## jc9394

But but, it is designed with Takatsuki 300B...


----------



## Silent One

L-i-k-e we can't get your associate to bring us a Quad back.


----------



## jc9394

But I can...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> But I can...


 
  
 Jack and I have finally come to terms on specs for the WA5 monoblocks. Only the price and time needs to be worked out. I'm waiting for his his revised estimate. But whatever it is, the amp will have to wait till I get a gig. It'd be a fun way to celebrate - get a job, get a Woo!


----------



## jc9394

Nice, hopefully soon...


----------



## Silent One

I know you and will celebrate! I been pretty dormant for awhile, just sitting under the Zeus Eclipse 6 re-cabled Denon D7000 balanced drive w/4x22awg XLR. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kinda felt good_ gettin' it all out..._


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> Jack and I have finally come to terms on specs for the WA5 monoblocks. Only the price and time needs to be worked out. I'm waiting for his his revised estimate. But whatever it is, the amp will have to wait till I get a gig. It'd be a fun way to celebrate - get a job, get a Woo!


 
  
 We need to celebrate your Shindo Labs first! And then your WA5 monoblocks. Then Party Hardy!


----------



## magiccabbage

cant wait for the pics - double mono block heaven!


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> We need to celebrate your Shindo Labs first! And then your WA5 monoblocks. Then Party Hardy!


 
  
 OH 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to be clear, I meant celebrating getting a job. But while I was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




at it...
  
 Last night, Matt said "Hello" to you back. Sadly, he just got rear-ended about 10 days go. He's a lil' shook up but okay and taking time off to get himself right. 
  
 And speaking of Shindo Labs, Ken Shindo is making me Silver Interconnects but ran into delays with materials from his supplier. Maybe they'll finally get done and shipped within the next week or so. I mean really, when the iPod debuted it was a technical wonder! But I'm ready to return to my full-time rig.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> cant wait for the pics - double mono block heaven!


 
  





 Yeah, the Auction block, if I don't hurry up and get a job or a small part in a Hollywood film!


----------



## jc9394

Time for a trip to SoCal soon...


----------



## Silent One

Well, the sooner you buy _this _stuff, the sooner Jack can sell me a Black Woo!


----------



## musicman59

ru4music said:


> Any other Woo/ other  activists planning a trip to the RMAF?


 
  
 I'll be there.


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> Seriously considering this new WE 300B...let see what else I can sell.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-Matched-Pair-Test-as-new-Amplitrex-tester-/300977593867


 
  
  
  
 how much are you willing to let them go?


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> how much are you willing to let them go?




I wish it is mine, I'm considering getting it. Finally getting a WA5LE soon.


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> I wish it is mine, I'm considering getting it. Finally getting a WA5LE soon.


 
  
  
 congrats on the wa5le.  go get the tubes.  the price is still reasonable.


----------



## jc9394

Have two more days before it is expiring list. I will get it if under $1000-1100 range.


----------



## Silent One

We're pulling for you, jc9394... go get 'em!


----------



## ru4music

silent one said:


> Jack and I have finally come to terms on specs for the WA5 monoblocks. Only the price and time needs to be worked out. I'm waiting for his his revised estimate. But whatever it is, the amp will have to wait till I get a gig. It'd be a fun way to celebrate - get a job, get a Woo!


 
  
  
 So will Jack add this to his line-up?  WA5 Mono-blocks SO edition... kind of like the sound of that (no pun intended!)


----------



## Silent One

ru4music said:


> So will Jack add this to his line-up?  WA5 Mono-blocks SO edition... kind of like the sound of that (no pun intended!)


 
  
 WA5 monos are already a part of what WooAudio configures for customers. They'll also do a '45' version instead of 300B, if one so chooses.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Have two more days before it is expiring list. I will get it if under $1000-1100 range.


 
  
 oooh just saw that.
  
 wow good luck!
  
 it'll probably sell for a lot though, some last minute bidder will snipe them.
  
 now just buy a pair of the WE 274B/422A for sale and you're all set!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw omg
  
 i would so buy these if i wasn't already saving up for some tubes (WE422A and U52). thats a killer deal considered how hard these are to find.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-A1834-VALVES-TESTED-PAIR-BRITISH-TUBE-/111178220937?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item19e2bd0589


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> btw omg
> 
> i would so buy these if i wasn't already saving up for some tubes (WE422A and U52). thats a killer deal considered how hard these are to find.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-A1834-VALVES-TESTED-PAIR-BRITISH-TUBE-/111178220937?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item19e2bd0589


 
  
 holy **** i might grab those


----------



## jc9394

Get it while you can, it is one of the lowest price I see.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> oooh just saw that.
> 
> wow good luck!
> 
> ...




It will probably no more than $1600, this is a new remake.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> We're pulling for you, jc9394... go get 'em!


 
  
*Woo*hoo I'm the highest bidder now, let see how long it will last...


----------



## Ultrainferno

jc9394 said:


> *Woo*hoo I'm the highest bidder now, let see how long it will last...


 
  
  
 On this one or the GEC one?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Western-Electric-300B-Tube-NOS-NIB-100-NEW-TESTED-/300971861834


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> On this one or the GEC one?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Western-Electric-300B-Tube-NOS-NIB-100-NEW-TESTED-/300971861834


 
  
 I brought that one already!!!


----------



## Silent One

_jc9394 makin' moves..._


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> _jc9394 makin' moves..._


 
  
 Not that $13,000 one.  As much as I like to get it, I rather use that money to get myself an Accuphase amp/preamp instead.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Not that $13,000 one.  As much as I like to get it, *I rather use that money* to get myself an Accuphase amp/preamp instead.


 
  





 That's because as a shopper you are chic (smart)!


----------



## jc9394

My ears does not deserve that kind of tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Not that $13,000 one.  As much as I like to get it, I rather use that money to get myself an Accuphase amp/preamp instead.


 
  
 For that kind of money, amplifiers would not be the first item on my list. It would be a First-Class Plane Ticket to somewhere nice and a week or two of fancy wines and dining.  My ears are already satisfied. Now my tummy needs to be pampered!
  
 How about to Japan for good sushi? Any suggestions?


----------



## jc9394

Bora Bora Four Seasons overwater bungalow... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  i will be perfectly happy with my JH13 powered by iPhone...


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> For that kind of money, amplifiers would not be the first item on my list. It would be a First-Class Plane Ticket to somewhere nice and a week or two of fancy wines and dining.  My ears are already satisfied. Now my tummy needs to be pampered!
> 
> How about to Japan for good sushi? Any suggestions?


----------



## jc9394

Fugu...


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> For that kind of money, amplifiers would not be the first item on my list. It would be a First-Class Plane Ticket to somewhere nice and a week or two of fancy wines and dining.  *My ears are already satisfied. Now my tummy needs to be pampered!*
> 
> *How about to Japan for good sushi?* Any suggestions?


 
 +1


----------



## jc9394

How about Japanese Uni and hot spring?  Have the sushi floating on the hot spring...


----------



## dminches

clayton sf said:


> For that kind of money, amplifiers would not be the first item on my list. It would be a First-Class Plane Ticket to somewhere nice and a week or two of fancy wines and dining.  My ears are already satisfied. Now my tummy needs to be pampered!
> 
> How about to Japan for good sushi? Any suggestions?


 
  
 Come to the east coast for Sushi.  Most of my Asian co-workers think that the sushi here is as good as Japan.  Frankly, I would think that would be the case for SF too.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Come to the east coast for Sushi.  Most of my Asian co-workers think that the sushi here is as good as Japan.  Frankly, I would think that would be the case for SF too.


 
  
 Actually, the sushi is better at the west coast (Seattle).


----------



## Silent One

This makes a lot of sense when viewing Tokyo/Seattle on a globe.


----------



## jc9394

Most of the east coast and CA sushi place are owned by Chinese except of all the fancy one while most of the sushi in Seattle is actually owned by Japanese chef that immigrated to US.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got WA22.....
  
  
 wow! i like how it sounds! like massive soundstage and very mid-centric.


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> just got WA22..... wow! i like how it sounds! like massive soundstage and very mid-centric.


 
 Congratulations!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> just got WA22.....
> 
> 
> wow! i like how it sounds! like massive soundstage and very mid-centric.


 
  
 and the t1??????


----------



## jc9394

Wait til you have enough times to get familiar with the sound signature and start rolling. Please let me know how the TH900 sounds, I'm still considering getting that.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> just got WA22.....
> 
> 
> wow! i like how it sounds! like massive soundstage and very mid-centric.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

jc9394 said:


> Most of the east coast and CA sushi place are owned by Chinese except of all the fancy one while most of the sushi in Seattle is actually owned by Japanese chef that immigrated to US.



This has certainly not been my experience in California. I'm not sure where in California you've been going for sushi, but I think you've been making poor choices. I've not been to a single sushi restaurant in California where the fish was not prepared by someone who is either Japanese or JA, but maybe that's just me. I can't always comment on the ownership, but where it counts (in the kitchen) I'm always sure.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> btw omg
> 
> i would so buy these if i wasn't already saving up for some tubes (WE422A and U52). thats a killer deal considered how hard these are to find.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-A1834-VALVES-TESTED-PAIR-BRITISH-TUBE-/111178220937?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item19e2bd0589


 
 Wish I would have known about this deal earlier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I'm happy someone here (I believe) bought them!


----------



## jc9394

galaxyguy said:


> This has certainly not been my experience in California. I'm not sure where in California you've been going for sushi, but I think you've been making poor choices. I've not been to a single sushi restaurant in California where the fish was not prepared by someone who is either Japanese or JA, but maybe that's just me. I can't always comment on the ownership, but where it counts (in the kitchen) I'm always sure.




Well, you don't know me. Making poor choices on where I eat certainly don't belong in a same sentence. Especially when I travel.

PS, I said most. I do/did have some great sushi in CA. Namely a place Clayton suggested.


----------



## ru4music

There's something very _FISHY_ about some of the recent postings!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  FWIW, my idea of sushi is opening a can of tuna..."but if you knew Sushi like I knew Sushi..."  Oh well, never mind!


----------



## M Coupe

Congrats DG! I cannot wait to here more about the WA22. Compare to WA6-SE too. Cheers!


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> just got WA22.....
> 
> 
> wow! i like how it sounds! like massive soundstage and very mid-centric.




Congrats! 

I'm still waiting in my gsx-mkII. .. 

How do the two compare with the lcd3?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

jc9394 said:


> Well, you don't know me. Making poor choices on where I eat certainly don't belong in a same sentence. Especially when I travel.
> 
> PS, I said most. I do/did have some great sushi in CA. Namely a place Clayton suggested.


 
  
 I'm not trying to cast aspersions in any way, to be sure.  I'm sure Seattle has some great sushi.  I'm just saying that you can find excellent sushi in Cali, if you know where to look...


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> just got WA22.....
> 
> 
> wow! i like how it sounds! like massive soundstage and very mid-centric.


 
  
 Darker and smoother than the WA2 I hope?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> Darker and smoother than the WA2 I hope?


 
  
 not sure, i think similar to WA2, but i wouldn't say darker and smoother.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Darker and smoother than the WA2 I hope?


 
  
 Different than the WA2 to be sure. Wider and bolder, I'd say. I'll just have to let you borrow mine to find out. But you have to return it in person.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Different than the WA2 to be sure. Wider and bolder, I'd say. I'll just have to let you borrow mine to find out. But you have to return it in person.


 
  
 Sure, when you're coming over for my marriage


----------



## nwavesailor

Folks following the reissue WE 300B auction on E-Bay likely already know this but don't want to wait until 'early 2014' for delivery of these tubes. BUT, if $$$ matters and you can wait (who here can wait for tubes for their Woo???)  Tube Depot has these listed for $900/ matched pair & with 15% off sale takes them down to $765 and they are 'new'.
  
 We all want our toys NOW and who's to say 'early 2014' is a realistic time frame? Just tossing it out there if it hasn't already been discussed in an earlier WE 300B post!
  
 I should add that I have not checked with Tube Depot to be sure that the 15% off sale is good on the WE 300B's..................


----------



## Clayton SF

Has anyone been able to compare the current production WE300B with the KR Audio 300B (balloon and regular)? Perhaps the KRs sound just as great as the WE300B. They are both current production.


----------



## jc9394

nwavesailor said:


> Folks following the reissue WE 300B auction on E-Bay likely already know this but don't want to wait until 'early 2014' for delivery of these tubes. BUT, if $$$ matters and you can wait (who here can wait for tubes for their Woo???)  Tube Depot has these listed for $900/ matched pair & with 15% off sale takes them down to $765 and they are 'new'.
> 
> We all want our toys NOW and who's to say 'early 2014' is a realistic time frame? Just tossing it out there if it hasn't already been discussed in an earlier WE 300B post!
> 
> I should add that I have not checked with Tube Depot to be sure that the 15% off sale is good on the WE 300B's..................


 
  
 I noticed that too, that is why I stopped bidding and use that money to contact Glenn...


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Darker and smoother than the WA2 I hope?
> ...


 
  
 Agree - WA22 isn't darker and smoother. Bolder and punchier, but still in the same family, I'd say..


----------



## jc9394

From memory, WA22 have more liquid mids,


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I noticed that too, that is why I stopped bidding and use that money to contact Glenn...


 
  





 Just waking up to your plans.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Just waking up to your plans.


 
  
 9AM wake up???  that is totally not the SO I knew... he usually 24/7


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> 9AM wake up???  that is totally not the SO I knew... he usually 24/7


 
  
 Had a micro-mini-meet with a fellow head-fier last night. And the electricity had me return home listening to music till sunrise like 2012. I'm already seeking a power nap - breakfast has me feeling v-e-r-y sleepy.
  
 Will send you a pix shortly...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Had a micro-mini-meet with a fellow head-fier last night. And the electricity had me return home listening to music till sunrise like 2012. I'm already seeking a power nap - breakfast has me feeling v-e-r-y sleepy.
> 
> Will send you a pix shortly...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Had a micro-mini-meet with a fellow head-fier last night. And the electricity had me return home listening to music till sunrise like 2012. I'm already seeking a power nap - breakfast has me feeling v-e-r-y sleepy.
> 
> Will send you a pix shortly...


 
  
 You guys are really lucky, there are way more Woo owners out in CA area than here...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> You guys are really lucky, there are way more Woo owners out in CA area than here...


 
  
 I am gradually becoming Woo-less. But with good intentions: I am passing them to future Woosies.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> You guys are really lucky, there are way more Woo owners out in CA area than here...


 
  





 So many, I'm becoming suspicious. I kid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I kid!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


>


 
  
 Sorry, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the new pix are still to come. He was asking about my 2359glenn amp.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I am gradually becoming Woo-less. But with good intentions: I am passing them to future Woosies.


 
  
 I don't think you will be totally Woo-less, let's hope not...


silent one said:


> Sorry,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you know anyone have a 5U4G/C3g/45 amp from Glenn?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Do you know anyone have a 5U4G/C3g/45 amp from Glenn?


 
  
 Fellow Woozie Xcalibur255 just took delivery last week of his custom 45amp. I forget the tube complement. Pop on over to my thread and get all thy understanding about his amp:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/5115#post_9856353


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Sorry,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 what tube is that lurking in the background?


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> what tube is that lurking in the background?


 
  
 The amp is based on the 3GD4 rectifier (background tube); 6AS7 (I use 5998s) and 6SN7 (up front).
  
 I now primarily use _The Mighty 596_ in the rectifier slot.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> The amp is based on the 3GD4 rectifier (background tube); 6AS7 (I use 5998s) and 6SN7 (up front).
> 
> I now primarily use _The Mighty 596_ in the rectifier slot.


 
  
 I use the 5998 tubes myself, mine are chathams also. Great tube


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I don't think you will be totally Woo-less, let's hope not...


 
  
 Now this is true. I will probably keep by both of my WA4 amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

sweet amp, I would buy it over the WA6le, i think it looks a lot nicer. Unfortunately jack says he cant make it any more because of a shortage on parts


----------



## jc9394

Just got an email from Princess Sophia...
  
 Sophia Electric Royal Princess 300B matched pair with one year warranty (with wooden box): $1,000 per pair


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bolder....yeah i thought the same thing when i heard wa22 yesterday, only had like 15 mins of listening, ill listen more today, but first thing that came to mind was more grandiose and bigger/wider kinda sound. like it sounds more dynamic and makes the mids really present


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> bolder....yeah i thought the same thing when i heard wa22 yesterday, only had like 15 mins of listening, ill listen more today, but first thing that came to mind was more grandiose and bigger/wider kinda sound. like it sounds more dynamic and makes the mids really present


 
  
 more dynamic with stock tubes?  wait til you drop the metal base gZ34 in...


----------



## kazsud

dubstep girl said:


> bolder....yeah i thought the same thing when i heard wa22 yesterday, only had like 15 mins of listening, ill listen more today, but first thing that came to mind was more grandiose and bigger/wider kinda sound. like it sounds more dynamic and makes the mids really present



 


Did you purchase it w/ upgrades?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes it is the wa22 that JC had. it has blackgates and some other upgrades I think


----------



## jc9394

Here is the upgrade parts list...
  
 1/ BlackGate NH 220uf/160V x 6                         
 2/ RMG 470Ω resistor  X 2                              
 3/ RMG 220KΩ resistors X 4                             
 4/ V-Cap CuTF 0.22uf/300V X 4                           
 5/ BlackGate NH 150uf/350 x 3                           
 6/ Mills MR-200 30.1k resistors x 4                     
 7/ Gold plated Japan made selector                     
 8/ Mundrof Silver Gold 0.5mm &1mm cable


----------



## jc9394




----------



## jc9394

and your mighty 596 glow...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh cool now i dont have to open it to see lol


----------



## ardilla

*envy*


----------



## Clayton SF

I've seen the inside of mine and it looks naked compared to yours. I have the stock version and I love the sound. Yours must be boom-boom fantastic!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Here is the upgrade parts list...
> 
> 1/ BlackGate NH 220uf/160V x 6
> 2/ RMG 470Ω resistor  X 2
> ...


 
  
 A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hot Rod!


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> oh cool now i dont have to open it to see lol




Come to think it, maybe all that hot rod upgrade stuff is what makes your WA22 clip with the HE6, LOL .P


----------



## magiccabbage

man oh man, i want one now


----------



## Dubstep Girl

you seem to always have different experiences driving different headphones. 
  
 like i can't see the WA2 ever working with my LCD-3 and HE-500, just impossible lol


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> you seem to always have different experiences driving different headphones.
> 
> like i can't see the WA2 ever working with my LCD-3 and HE-500, just impossible lol




LCD-2.2 is not bad with WA22, try to pair it with more SS sounding tubes. I do agree it is not the best pairing, that is why I commissioned a beta22 build.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> LCD-2.2 is not bad with WA22, try to pair it with more SS sounding tubes. I do agree it is not the best pairing, that is why I commissioned a beta22 build.


 
  
 i said WA2 and LCD-3.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> you seem to always have different experiences driving different headphones.
> 
> like i can't see the WA2 ever working with my LCD-3 and HE-500, just impossible lol




Yeah, funny how I couldn't make them clip, even using the same track. But then, you are the clip master ,) 

Never found HE500 ideal with wa2, but not bad. LCD3 has this super lush synergy that certainly is a love hate thing.


----------



## magiccabbage

WA2 LCD3 man i would love if that would work for me! Too big a risk to take i think


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my WA2 clipped with any low impedance. from grado to th-900 to akg to planars, didn't get loud enough before it distorted.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> my WA2 clipped with any low impedance. from grado to th-900 to akg to planars, didn't get loud enough before it distorted.


 
  
 lol, my hd595 doesn't clip bit then again it is a hd595


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> my WA2 clipped with any low impedance. from grado to th-900 to akg to planars, didn't get loud enough before it distorted.




You had the clipping wa2, and now you got the clipping 22 :9 

Which song makes your 22 clip, at what volume with HE6?


----------



## magiccabbage

Doesn't the HE6 need a min of 5 watts? Wa22 isn't powerful enough


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> You had the clipping wa2, and now you got the clipping 22 :9
> 
> Which song makes your 22 clip, at what volume with HE6?


 
  
 ill check later. 
  
 its on most songs it seems, and starts around 1 o clock ish.


----------



## ardilla

Tubes?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Tubes?


 
  
 was with TS 6F8G, EML 5U4G, and TS 5998


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> ill check later.
> 
> its on most songs it seems, and starts around 1 o clock ish.




1??? That is bleeding loud. I never have it past 7 clicks.


----------



## ardilla

jc9394 said:


> 1??? That is bleeding loud. I never have it past 7 clicks.




We're talking about the HE6... But I seldom put it higher than 12, but tubes will matter.


----------



## GloryUprising

I think I got lost in the thread:


dubstep girl said:


> just got WA22.....
> 
> 
> wow! i like how it sounds! like massive soundstage and very mid-centric.


 
  
 Congrats! 
 I'm still waiting in my gsx-mkII. .. 
 How do the two compare with the lcd3?


----------



## jc9394

GS-X MKII will be better, even my beta22 is better than WA22 with LCD-2.2.


----------



## ardilla

.........But I bet that is a subjective point of view


----------



## jc9394

Yes and no, to me and my ears only, I think the LCD are better with SS amp. Especially with the neutral sounding SS amp.


----------



## ardilla

jc9394 said:


> Yes and no, to me and my ears only, I think the LCD are better with SS amp. Especially with the neutral sounding SS amp.




And I think the LCD2 and 3 are best with tubes. Wa22 is great, CS300 and SLI80 too. 

=)


----------



## Silent One

_fascinating experiences coming through today..._


----------



## jc9394

ardilla said:


> And I think the LCD2 and 3 are best with tubes. Wa22 is great, CS300 and SLI80 too.
> 
> =)


 
  
 I never tried Leben and Cary, I will have to ask my friend to borrow his LCD-3 when I received the WA5LE.  I remember OP Dannie01 told me LCD-3 is perfect match with WA5LE.


silent one said:


> _fascinating experiences coming through today..._


 
  
 Enjoying it?  Where is the Shindo???  I need Shindo p0rn pics...


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> I never tried Leben and Cary, I will have to ask my friend to borrow his LCD-3 when I received the WA5LE.  I remember OP Dannie01 told me LCD-3 is perfect match with WA5LE.
> 
> Enjoying it?  Where is the Shindo???  I need Shindo p0rn pics...


 
  
 +1


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Enjoying it?  Where is the Shindo???  I need Shindo p0rn pics...


 
  
 The amount of patience I've had to dial-up this year... sometimes repeatedly so... leaves me wanting to run outside and _down the street at night._ Silently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




of course.
  
 As if the Stax delay wasn't enough, I'm now enduring the Shindo Silver Interconnects being delayed - should have arrived first week of September. Ken Shindo had trouble sourcing materials to make them. I think he succeeded in sourcing and they should be made and shipped any day, but...
  
 ...they still have to travel from Tokyo.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> The amount of patience I've had to dial-up this year... sometimes repeatedly so... leaves me wanting to run outside and _down the street at night._ Silently :rolleyes: of course.
> 
> As if the Stax delay wasn't enough, I'm now enduring the Shindo Silver Interconnects being delayed - should have arrived first week of September. Ken Shindo had trouble sourcing materials to make them. I think he succeeded in sourcing and they should be made and shipped any day, but...
> 
> ...




Snail mail? 14 business days. :mad:


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> +1


 





 I'm on it! Meanwhile, it's you, me and an iPod. Or two peas & a pod!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I'm on it! Meanwhile, it's you, me and an iPod. Or two peas & a pod!


 
  
 Fair play for having the patience to wait. sounds like a nightmare to be honest. "run outside and down the street at night, silently of course" - I got a good laugh out of that.


----------



## jc9394

Patience is the key, remember how long I was talking about getting a WA5/LE???


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> was with TS 6F8G, EML 5U4G, and TS 5998




 You roll like I used to, I took two days off after I received the WA22 and tried every single combo I have.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> Fair play for having the patience to wait. sounds like a nightmare to be honest. "run outside and down the street at night, silently of course" - I got a good laugh out of that.


 
  
 I'm guessing, most audio enthusiasts would run screaming with or 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 without clothes!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> I'm guessing, most audio enthusiasts would run screaming with or
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 yea just headphones!!


----------



## Silent One

It's a good thing I've got some patience in reserve. And with 'Woo' negotiations heating up, I'm going to need it!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> It's a good thing I've got some patience in reserve. And with 'Woo' negotiations heating up, I'm going to need it!


 
  
 Complete custom? I presume so. I would love to try out one of those Glenn amps. I wonder can you negotiate on the shape of the amp as well as the build and circuitry?


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> Complete custom? I presume so. I would love to try out one of those Glenn amps. I wonder can you negotiate on the shape of the amp as well as the build and circuitry?


 
  
 Hmmm let's see... should I purchase a Wonderful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Woo or a Wicked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Woo?
  
 Our designer (2359glenn) could make what you want but within reason.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Hmmm let's see... should I purchase a Wonderful
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wonderfully Wicked!


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> was with TS 6F8G, EML 5U4G, and TS 5998




Try The Brimar 5R4GY


----------



## Ultrainferno

With Clayton's WA2 gone, I have an extra space for a new amp. I was first thinking WA22 or Mini torii or CSP2+ but I have Glenn's amp for the planars, the LF339 for the high impedance cans and the Crack for the Senns. (not looking at the SS ones) Maybe I should get an OT amp next, sounds like a plan.
  
 But which one... ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

had some time to listen to WA22, but not enough. ill have to listen later.
  
 impressions are mostly positive mostly but also mixed. 
  
 the 6F8G seem to be noisy, or at least have a higher noise floor. also seems like the WA22 is kinda bass light, sacrificing a tiny bit of bass and maybe some detail to give you a very rich warm sound, more than WA2, but not as silky and tender/full-bodied (yes Ardilla, you described it the best), so it lacks some euphony despite the richness and warmth. the midrange is holographic and very present, more forward i guess, though on some recordings, the midrange actually seems a little veiled cause of the lushness. soundstage is huge, even more than WA6-SE and more than WA2. 
  
 im not sure its necessarily better. i even think i might be better off with WA2 for the T1. but its kinda even, cause the WA22 does bring out the slightly recessed midrange of the T1 quite nicely and is even less fatiguing than WA2. smoother. i  just feel like somethings missing, mostly bass seems weaker. i think the OTL of the WA2 is better for T1's drivers, but i'll have to see.  i do really like the tube magic that the WA22 is giving the T1, its nice, but the WA22 also has noise, its not black like the WA2, i feel it kinda distracts and takes away from the transparency.
  
  
  
 with the HD 800, its different too. seems like it makes the sound quite lush and the soundstage enormous with great imaging and spatial cues, i guess this is that holographic tube sound people look for. a huge image with lush and smoothness, very mid-centric. instruments have a place in the sound, and theres this beautiful air everywhere, i really like it, but i have to listen more to see if i would prefer it over the WA2 or not. seems like the Wa22 is more grand and bold sounding with a very audiophile like presentation, whereas the WA2 is silky smooth but natural and maintains more linearity and coherency, slightly more balanced, and with a nice bass bump to add musicality.
  
 anyways, i think this amp sounds fantastic with new age, acoustic, vocals, and instrumentals. like with T1 and Hd 800, i'm really liking how alot of my chill-out, new age, ambient music sounds. i don't know if its good for pop and electronic though, i hope i dont end up with both WA2 and WA22 like ardilla....or maybe i do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 also surprised how different it sounds from the WA6-SE. the WA22 is very warm and tubey and doesn't come even close to sounding like WA6-SE, not as dynamic or energetic. 
  
 i am also interesting in trying a PS1000 again with this amp, it seems warm enough that it might actually work well with them. might actually tame the highs.
  
 notes: 
  
 - seems to be really nice with rock music, i can see why alot of people would like this amp. so full of soul and warmth that works well with guitars. the forward mids kinda give that grado-esque magic to this kind of music.
  
 - seems like the timbre and naturalness isn't the same as WA2, like that magic silky smoothness is missing.


----------



## ardilla

Great write up, DG!

With reg ards to the light bass, I too found that a problem, until I swapped the EML. 

It is remarkable how much the wa22 changes with the rectifier. The Mullard gs33 is great, the Brimar 5R4GY, and the Gec. They all add the necessary little extra in the bass. 

So, keep rolling those rectifiers, it kept me from letting it go


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Great write up, DG!
> 
> With reg ards to the light bass, I too found that a problem, until I swapped the EML.
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks, ill be adding more notes later as i listen. for now i have to go to work though.
 i shall try the brimar later.
  
 i know some of these rectifiers, tend to be a bit bloatier in the bass. i'm trying to avoid that. the WA2 was full but also maintained tightness. i don't want the rectifier to add bloat.
  
 the 596 seems to be more bass light but has great tightness and extension. mostly extension, better than almost any tube i've heard. incredible really. surprised the sound with 596 is so warm, usually the 596 would make sound very SS like.
  
 probably only big downside i have to sound besides the bass is the noise. seems like 6F8G all have higher noise floor, its enough to bother me unfortunately. more noise than WA6-SE. and the WA2 was completely silent.
  
 EDIT: ok seems like the tung sol 5998 also helps out with the bass, i'll have to see though. i notice that the power tubes make less of a difference than on the WA2. on the WA2, it pretty much sets the foundation for the rest of the sound signature. and the T1 LOVES the TS 5998.


----------



## magiccabbage

great impressions DG


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> thanks, ill be adding more notes later as i listen. for now i have to go to work though.
> i shall try the brimar later.
> 
> *i know some of these rectifiers, tend to be a bit bloatier in the bass.* i'm trying to avoid that. the WA2 was full but also maintained tightness. i don't want the rectifier to add bloat.
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried them in the WA22? They might sound diferent with thte WA22 than with WA6SE. Also - "bloated" bass is just when a nice and full bass gets to full, isn't it


----------



## jc9394

Did you tried the TS7236? I think it has a tag more bass than TS5998. Maybe it is the source I have, I did a comparison between beta22 and WA22 I did not notice it is that much warmer that you described? The beta22 should be fairly neutral sounding amp.

I'm waiting for your impression with GEC 6AS7G...after you get the TS6F8G burn in first, they need about 100+ hours if it is new.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Have you tried them in the WA22? They might sound diferent with thte WA22 than with WA6SE. Also - "bloated" bass is just when a nice and full bass gets to full, isn't it




Yes too full! But the bass still seems kinda light compared to wa2. These are still brief impressions i have to listen more, but yeah i know alot of the rectifiers of this type tend to lack some tightness, or are tight but lacking in other areas. Ill try 5r4gy later.

I know mighty 596 sounds way different on here than on wa6se where its very ss sounding. Its warmer here and fuller sounding


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> Yes too full! But the bass still seems kinda light compared to wa2. These are still brief impressions i have to listen more, but yeah i know alot of the rectifiers of this type tend to lack some tightness, or are tight but lacking in other areas. Ill try 5r4gy later.
> 
> I know mighty 596 sounds way different on here than on wa6se where its very ss sounding*. Its warmer here and fuller sounding*


 
  
 And I, who have been sleeping tight without regret after you told me the 596 was SS sounding, shall yet again start regretting jumping off that group buy last year. Shame on you!


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> With Clayton's WA2 gone, I have an extra space for a new amp. I was first thinking WA22 or Mini torii or CSP2+ but I have Glenn's amp for the planars, the LF339 for the high impedance cans and the Crack for the Senns. (not looking at the SS ones) Maybe I should get an OT amp next, sounds like a plan.
> 
> But which one... ?


 
  
 How about my WA6 or my WA22? Although shipping the 22 to Europe may be cost prohibitive to just borrow the amp. I have the Zana Deux SE but I need to find a box because I threw out the original packing materials and there are 2 parts to it and massive tubes. :O


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> How about my WA6 or my WA22? Although shipping the 22 to Europe may be cost prohibitive to just borrow the amp. I have the Zana Deux SE but I need to find a box because I threw out the original packing materials and there are 2 parts to it and massive tubes. :O


 
 Are you upgrading?


----------



## Ultrainferno

you're too kind Clayton. Isn't the ZD 110V only?
 I'm not sure the WA22 is for me after heaving read the impressions, I don't know. I'm lost.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> you're too kind Clayton. Isn't the ZD 110V only?
> I'm not sure the WA22 is for me after heaving read the impressions, I don't know. I'm lost.


 
  
 Same here.


----------



## Clayton SF

Unfavorable impressions about the WA22? Interesting.
  
 What about a hybrid amp? The X-CAN V8p? Oh wait, that is also 120v, never mind. I'll see what other amps I have that can switch between US and Euro current. I think the SPL Auditor can but that is purely ss.
  
 Anyway, have a great Friday and maybe on Saturday you'll come up with the next amp to fill in that blank space in your life on your amp shelf.


----------



## Pudu

Grats DG!

I look forward to your further evolving take on the two-2-22-woos. Keep the impressions coming.


----------



## dminches

What I want to hear is how the 22 compares to the 5LE.


----------



## fhuang

ardilla said:


> Try The Brimar 5R4GY


 
  
  
 why 5r5gy?  i know brimar has 5u4g too.  any difference?


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> What I want to hear is how the 22 compares to the 5LE.


 
  
 Me too...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Me too...


 
  
 When will the WA5 drop onto your porch (appx)?


----------



## jc9394

One crate estimated next Tuesday and second crate the next day.  What is that???


----------



## ardilla

dminches said:


> What I want to hear is how the 22 compares to the 5LE.







jc9394 said:


> Me too...




That would be something.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> One crate estimated next Tuesday and second crate the next day.  What is that???


 
  
 Saves the mfg on shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Really though, it's comin' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




that quickly?! The K1K port is said to wake up the sleepy LCD series. Keep us posted!


----------



## ardilla

fhuang said:


> why 5r5gy?  i know brimar has 5u4g too.  any difference?




Dunno. I just have the Y..


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Saves the mfg on shipping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 yep, i need to source more 300b soon.  my wallet has not recovered from my camera related purchased yet...


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> yep, i need to source more 300b soon.  my wallet has not recovered from my camera related purchased yet...


 
  





 This is no accident - you now have the means (Nikon) to shoot it (WA5)! Thanks for thinking about us in this thread.


----------



## jc9394

but but i really like to get eml 5u4g and 300b...


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> Me too...


 
  
 At least you will know first had.


----------



## daverich4

jc9394 said:


> Did you tried the TS7236? I think it has a tag more bass than TS5998. Maybe it is the source I have, I did a comparison between beta22 and WA22 I did not notice it is that much warmer that you described? The beta22 should be fairly neutral sounding amp.
> 
> I'm waiting for your impression with GEC 6AS7G...after you get the TS6F8G burn in first, they need about 100+ hours if it is new.




DG.....

I prefer the TS7236 over the TS5998's with my WA22/HD800's. I too am waiting on your GEC impressions.


----------



## musicman59

dminches said:


> What I want to hear is how the 22 compares to the 5LE.


 
  
 What i tell you is that back in 2010 I made my mind to get into the Woo family and my sights were in the 22 becausee my intention was to have a Tube and a SS amp. My SS amp that that time was a Rudistor RP010B MkII balanced and since most of my cans were terminated balance I decided to go with a balanced tube amp.
  
 I went to CanJam 2010 and listen to the 22 with my own T1/Zeus balanced. Then talking to Jack he recommended me to listen to the WA5-LE and since I had my balanced to TRS adapter with my I did with my same T1/Zeus cans. I was blown away with its sound. I had never hear my T1 sounding that good.
  
 So based on conversations with Jack about the two amps and what I heard I ordered my WA5-LE a week later.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Saves the mfg on shipping
> 
> Really though, it's comin' :tongue_smile: that quickly?! The K1K port is said to wake up the sleepy LCD series. Keep us posted!




No K1K port, just the LE version from BournePerfect.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> No K1K port, just the LE version from BournePerfect.


 
  





 But we are like brothers. And I'm getting two K1K ports. I'm all about sharing, would you like one? But 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 your signal would be_ mono..._
  
 Also, so what's BP gonna do now? Guess
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could always ask BP what the next audio move will be.


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> What i tell you is that back in 2010 I made my mind to get into the Woo family and my sights were in the 22 becausee my intention was to have a Tube and a SS amp. My SS amp that that time was a Rudistor RP010B MkII balanced and since most of my cans were terminated balance I decided to go with a balanced tube amp.
> 
> I went to CanJam 2010 and listen to the 22 with my own T1/Zeus balanced. Then talking to Jack he recommended me to listen to the WA5-LE and since I had my balanced to TRS adapter with my I did with my same T1/Zeus cans. I was blown away with its sound. I had never hear my T1 sounding that good.
> 
> So based on conversations with Jack about the two amps and what I heard I ordered my WA5-LE a week later.


 
  
 What a treat! It's Friday, I'm having a bowl of delicate green tea and reading wonderful Woo stories with romantic endings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't seem to get any better than this!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Oh yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[size=1em]​ it can! DG will be emerging shortly...[/size]


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> But we are like brothers. And I'm getting two K1K ports. I'm all about sharing, would you like one? But :wink_face:  your signal would be _mono..._
> 
> Also, so what's BP gonna do now? Guess:blink: I could always ask BP what the next audio move will be.




A special run amp from uncle Eddie...


----------



## Silent One

> A special run amp from uncle Eddie...


 
  





 Great... everyone (you, DG & BP) is a winner!


----------



## ru4music

jc9394 said:


> Here is the upgrade parts list...
> 
> 1/ BlackGate NH 220uf/160V x 6
> 2/ RMG 470Ω resistor  X 2
> ...


 
  
  
 JC, you have good taste!  DG, congrats on your good taste and acquiring a fine piece of craftsmanship.


----------



## Silent One

Electronic candy... who knew?!


----------



## ru4music

daverich4 said:


> DG.....
> 
> I prefer the TS7236 over the TS5998's with my WA22/HD800's. I too am waiting on your GEC impressions.


 
 Me too!  Waiting for WA 22 and GEC critique.  I would think that the light bass (either real or self-impression) could/ would be solve by a Bendix 6080WB graphite.  *Anyone tried a Bendix 6080WB graphite in their WA 22?  Impressions?*  Wider sound stage and fuller/ deeper bass, although not as transparent, but very good separation and instrument/ vocal presentation.


----------



## ru4music

silent one said:


> Electronic candy... who knew?!


 
 Me, and everyone of us! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 SO, what is your opinion regarding UP-OCC casting copper vs. silver cables (i.e., good Japanese interconnects - yes, I'm still waiting for your Shindo shipment?)  I'm impressed with the long crystal copper but I would like applicable opinions.  I understand there are numerous vendors to choose from, but hope most of us have a reason to why?  FWIW,  I'm impressed with UP-OCC copper.
  
 Thanks, to y'all! --> I'm not from the South, "but variety is the spice of life!"


----------



## Silent One

ru4music said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've not owned enough; heard enough of the aforementioned cables. Rather, my selection was due to understanding Ken Shindo's vision. And I would like to hear that first, and then set off an exploration of snake pits cable possibilities.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i do have a bendix 6080wb incoming, so i'll be able to try those out in the next week or 2!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well decided to put up a picture.
  
 using TS 5998 and 596 here + treasures.
 seems all the 6F8G i bought have higher noise floor or noise issues. so been using the treasures mostly. i have a pair of RCA grey glass incoming.
  
 the bass i still have to find a good combo to get the best quantity out (luckily the extension is better than WA2, that i do notice). but the sound quality with these tubes is stunning. no noise like 6F8G, and the sound is still similar. the T1 sound so holographic and spacious, i've never heard them have such a huge soundstage! 
  
 the midrange of the WA22 really works well with the T1, the mids come out quite nicely. very liquid smooth mids, the highs are just as extended as WA2, maybe a little more but similar.
  
 one thing im noticing now, holy ****!! the detail with the T1 on some tracks is just amazing, the WA22 just loves rock music as well as acoustic! not sure if it'll work for electronic, but on some tracks, the detail is just incredible.
  
 more to come!


----------



## Silent One

Handle it, DG, handle it!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Handle it, DG, handle it!


 
  
  
  
 just put in EML 274B....wow i think i like this tube


----------



## Silent One




----------



## magiccabbage

liking the impressions. keep it up


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> just put in EML 274B....wow i think i like this tube :blink:




They sound totally different from the Sophia 274B... Glad you like it...


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Finally got it set up!!! Finally!!!

I will be getting new power cables and line conditioners for my gear tomorrow 

So far listening to the 300bs it came with on both my mini maggies and Abyss (with Plate output high gain key). All I can say is it sounds wonderful. Smooth, and just makes me want to Woo!


----------



## jc9394

Wow....totally speechless.


----------



## magiccabbage

visceriouszero said:


> Finally got it set up!!! Finally!!!
> 
> I will be getting new power cables and line conditioners for my gear tomorrow
> 
> ...


 
  
 what speakers are they?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

magiccabbage said:


> what speakers are they?




Magneplanar Mini Maggies


----------



## jc9394

Location cleared for the WA5LE's arrival on Tuesday or Wednesday. Any one have the KR 300B? I'm tempted since it is on sale at Tube Depots


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Location cleared for the WA5LE's arrival on Tuesday or Wednesday. Any one have the KR 300B? I'm tempted since it is on sale at Tube Depots


 
  
 lucky you


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Location cleared for the WA5LE's arrival on Tuesday or Wednesday. Any one have the KR 300B? I'm tempted since it is on sale at Tube Depots


 
  
  would be interesting to hear impressions between WA5 and WA22


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Location cleared for the WA5LE's arrival on Tuesday or Wednesday. Any one have the KR 300B? I'm tempted since it is on sale at Tube Depots


 
  
 Cleared space? I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 always have room to house your Woo!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Cleared space? I
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If shipping is not that expensive I will ship it over...

I have to put away my vintage iron for now until I get my lazy ass to order a Salamander 5 level stand.


----------



## ru4music

visceriouszero said:


> Finally got it set up!!! Finally!!!
> 
> I will be getting new power cables and line conditioners for my gear tomorrow
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Very Nice!  I am intrigued...


----------



## Clayton SF

Has anyone heard the Genalex Gold Lion PX 300B? They're a pretty reputable company as well aren't they?


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> i do have a bendix 6080wb incoming, so i'll be able to try those out in the next week or 2!


 
  
  
 DG, I'll be anxiously awaiting your impressions.  For me (on the WA 2) they certainly offer a change in sound.  Maybe (I'm guessing here since I don't have them) something along the lines of the TS 7236.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> If shipping is not that expensive I will ship it over...
> 
> I have to put away my vintage iron for now until I get my lazy ass to order a Salamander 5 level stand.


 
  
 I'm still looking for a new rack. At reasonable cost. I like the design of the current coffee table but the lower shelf is really not functional - decorative for zines at best. Leaving me really with only a solid top surface.
  
 Can't afford "Made for audiophile" labeled stuff. What I'd love to do is find a really nice second-hand piece of furniture of solid wood, for its soul and beauty and re-purpose it as my audio rack.


----------



## fhuang

silent one said:


> I'm still looking for a new rack. At reasonable cost. I like the design of the current coffee table but the lower shelf is really not functional - decorative for zines at best. Leaving me really with only a solid top surface.
> 
> Can't afford "Made for audiophile" labeled stuff. What I'd love to do is find a really nice second-hand piece of furniture of solid wood, for its soul and beauty and re-purpose it as my audio rack.


 
  
  
 those racks' prices are getting crazy the past few years.  but with a wa5, you probably going to need one.


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> Location cleared for the WA5LE's arrival on Tuesday or Wednesday. Any one have the KR 300B? I'm tempted since it is on sale at Tube Depots


 
  
  
 no but i've been looking at those too. 
  
 anyone know the difference between the regular one and the balloon one?


----------



## jc9394

The ballon suppose to be better from what I heard. I'm really interest in the increase output power, they claim to be 2-3x than the normal 300B. I need to ask Jack if the headphone out see the same kind of increase.


----------



## M Coupe

I really like the Salamander Synergy racks.  I have been through a ton of racks over the years, and the salamander stuff is built like a tank.  It may not go with all decors but I like the fact it is somewhat modular and  you can pretty much configure your dream rack.  They do occasionally go up for sale used which makes them a very smart buy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> DG, I'll be anxiously awaiting your impressions.  For me (on the WA 2) they certainly offer a change in sound.  Maybe (I'm guessing here since I don't have them) something along the lines of the TS 7236.


 
  
 ill be sure to post some.
  
 haven't had much listening time if any at all the past few days because of work.


----------



## jc9394

I heard you, at one time I don't have time to listen to anything for few months.


----------



## Silent One

None of y'all got anything on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




me. No full-time/full-rig listening sessions between Dec'12-Oct'13 with any consistency.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> None of y'all got anything on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


>


 
  
 Some of you may remember that this time last year, I was doing overnight listening sessions easily 4-5 times a week from 2300hrs-0800hrs.





 Bon bon vie!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> None of y'all got anything on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 imagine what its gonna be like when you get it all together. i went a week and a half without my rig and when i came back i went through a listening frenzy. 
  
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/683752/head-fi-gear-separation-support-thread/75#post_9866457


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agree with your point about the new gears. But having gear already I haven't had time to listen to...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _time_, not _gear_ has been my interference.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Has anyone heard the Genalex Gold Lion PX 300B? They're a pretty reputable company as well aren't they?


 
  
 Stavros probably has them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Looking for something new for our stereo integrated 300Bs? Let me know if you find a warmer sounding tube


----------



## Silent One

Clayton SF, how was the SF affair this past Saturday?


----------



## Ultrainferno

silent one said:


> Clayton SF, how was the SF affair this past Saturday?


 
  
 You mean the BA thing, I don't think he went.


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> You mean the BA thing, I don't think he went.


 
  
 Yes, that affair. I meant to ask this is the 2359glenn thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> You mean the BA thing, I don't think he went.


 
  


silent one said:


> Yes, that affair. I meant to ask this is the 2359glenn thread.


 
  
 I didn't feel too good that day and it was a very hot day as well so I stayed home and listened to music by The Lumineers and Andrew Bird and many others.


----------



## jc9394

The WA5LE has left CT, I may have a chance receive it tomorrow. Only one tracking number is updated.


----------



## Silent One

It's Official - we're on Woo watch!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i miss my WA2....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 this is bad....
  
 i hate to say it, i really do,  but besides the soundstage, which the WA22 is amazing at, just super holographic and huge huge huge, i think the GSX-MK2 is better in every way, with every headphone. even the beyerdynamic T1 and the HD 800 too.


----------



## fhuang

dubstep girl said:


> i miss my WA2....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 wa5?  i thought gsx is pretty good with almost all my headphones except t1.  t1 needs wa5


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> The WA5LE has left CT, I may have a chance receive it tomorrow. Only one tracking number is updated.


 
  
  
 pictures please when you get them


----------



## Dubstep Girl

fhuang said:


> wa5?  i thought gsx is pretty good with almost all my headphones except t1.  t1 needs wa5


 
  
 i think WA22 sounds very good with T1 cause it really brings out the detail and warmth in the midrange, which is slightly recessed on T1, however, the bass i love of the T1, becomes pushed back more on WA22, and it bothers me.
  
 the GS-X mk2 sounds almost as good as WA2 with the T1, only difference being a little more detail on GSX and more treble, slightly less warmth, tighter bass, but slightly less full.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i miss my WA2....
> 
> this is bad....
> 
> i hate to say it, i really do,  but besides the soundstage, which the WA22 is amazing at, just super holographic and huge huge huge, i think the GSX-MK2 is better in every way, with every headphone. even the beyerdynamic T1 and the HD 800 too.




My beta22 makes everything better except HD800, that is the WA22 outperform the beta22.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dubstep girl said:


> i miss my WA2....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to hear that you're so disappointed, DG.  I guess the grass isn't always so green on the other side.  If I were you I'd give it some time before you gave up on the WA22.  You could always go back to the WA2, though, without much of a problem, I imagine.  I'm pretty happy with my WA22 right now, but I have another amp on order anyways.  We'll see if it's an improvement or not.


----------



## ClassicalHIFI

I have wa22 for more than one month. But yesterday I found sometimes there is "ka ka" sound from the headphone such as TH900 or HD650 left channel when I rotated the headphone pin in the headphone insert.（headphone such as HD800 and LCD3 uesd XLR-3pin or 4pin no "ka ka" sound）
  
 I wonder how to resolve this problem.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> Sorry to hear that you're so disappointed, DG.  I guess the grass isn't always so green on the other side.  If I were you I'd give it some time before you gave up on the WA22.  You could always go back to the WA2, though, without much of a problem, I imagine.  I'm pretty happy with my WA22 right now, but I have another amp on order anyways.  We'll see if it's an improvement or not.


 
  
 im not disappointed per se, but just im not entirely sure the WA22 is for me.
  
 it does many things good. but i think the 6sn7 just seem to have microphonic and/or noise issues, the 6f8g even worse, and they seem to lack bass and the amp seems to be a little too warm. the huge huge plus the WA22 has is the incredible 3d soundstage and the beautiful really intimate midrange, very warm and detailed.
  
 however, the amp in all seems to be too mid-centric for me. the bass gets pushed back.
  
 now one thing im VERY VERY VERY interested in listening to would be the Grado PS1000. i think the WA22 would be something that might pair well with it. its warm and tubey enough to roll off the highs, the bass is laid back, so it might remove some of the PS1000's boomyness, and the midrange is so forward, it might bring out the recessed mids of the PS1000.
  
  
 i miss my WA2, it was warm but not overly so, and had a nice full bass. it was slightly boosted and colored, but with the right tubes, maintained tightness and punch but still was fun. a little more bass than neutral was very nice. and i think the WA2 has better control of the Beyerdynamic T1's drivers than Wa22.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> i miss my WA2....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 this is audio. no shame at all with _expressing._ none. the feeling it's leaving you with. and the feeling you wanna be left with. understandable...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the WA2 just has a sound with T1 that really clicks with me, especially with those amperex tubes.
  
 its tight, punchy, fast, musical, yet slightly more than neutral bass. warm lively mids that arent overly colored, transparent, decent soundstage, and extended highs that aren't overdone. 
  
 only flaw, the mids aren't as nice as WA22. but its not too far off from perfection, and upgrading tubes would probably get me there. i can see myself maxing out the tubes on WA2. (WE 421A, Amperex 6922 pinched waist d getter, and Genalex U709)


----------



## Silent One

While we're on the subject of who's missing what in this thread, I miss:
  
 My re-cabled Denon D7000 paired with the _WA 6 Special Edition _- TS-BGRP's in the slots; _The Mighty 596_ sitting high post. Punch, drive, reserve, detail and finesse! It only lacked depth for what I was seeking.


----------



## GrindingThud

Have you had opportunity to try a TS mouse ear? The dirty $20 ones I got from ebay are quiet and have very low microphonics...can tap the tube pretty hard and not hear it. They might be worth a try before you give up.



dubstep girl said:


> 6sn7 just seem to have microphonic and/or noise issues, the 6f8g even worse, and they seem to lack bass and the amp seems to be a little too warm.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> the WA2 just has a sound with T1 that really clicks with me, especially with those amperex tubes.
> 
> its tight, punchy, fast, musical, yet slightly more than neutral bass. warm lively mids that arent overly colored, transparent, decent soundstage, and extended highs that aren't overdone.
> 
> only flaw, the mids aren't as nice as WA22. but its not too far off from perfection, and upgrading tubes would probably get me there. i can see myself maxing out the tubes on WA2. (WE 421A, Amperex 6922 pinched waist d getter, and Genalex U709)


 
  
 Sorry to hear about your disappointment with the WA22. So on WA2 you use Amperex bugle boys with T1 and orange globes with the HD800? So will you go back for WA2 for now?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> While we're on the subject of who's missing what in this thread, I miss:
> 
> My re-cabled Denon D7000 paired with the _WA 6 Special Edition_ - TS-BGRP's in the slots; _The Mighty 596_ sitting high post. Punch, drive, reserve, detail and finesse! It only lacked depth for what I was seeking.




WA6, WA6SE, and WA22. :mad:


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Sorry to hear about your disappointment with the WA22. So on WA2 you use Amperex bugle boys with T1 and orange globes with the HD800? So will you go back for WA2 for now?


 
  
 other way around, bugle boy HD 800 and orange globe T1. and those are supposably not as good as the amperex PQ whites or the rarer pinched waist 6922, or even the 7308 varieties..... and then  theres the siemens tubes i have yet to try, i feel those will be real winners with HD 800.
  
 im gonna give a few more 6SN7 a try on WA22, but i feel that the WA22 is next on the chopping block.  its like the WA6-SE, WA22, and WA2 neither is really "Better" than the others, just preference, and seems like neither is perfect either.
  
 mainly heres what i think so far:
  
 the WA6-SE is most SS sounding, can drive anything, but can become grainy and not as good with beyer t1. full and dynamic, great clarity, but also tube rolling can be a pain at times, and tonality is kinda lacking, not euphonic just  warm with tube rolling.
  
 the WA2 is close to perfect for me, but i don't like the rectifier choice,  and not good with low impedance, so only limited mostly to the 300/600 ohm headphones from beyerdynamic and sennheiser. requires a ton of money tube rolling to sound best.
  
 the WA22 seems to be warm and more colored than WA2, but not as silky smooth, it has a slight thinness to it, despite the warm and forward mids, too middy for me, and bass not as good as other 2 woos, though can drive almost anything, has to be balanced source though, can't use single-ended, and looks like tube rolling on this is even more expensive than WA2. soundstage and imaging greatest out of all 3.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> other way around, bugle boy HD 800 and orange globe T1. and those are supposably not as good as the amperex PQ whites or the rarer pinched waist 6922, or even the 7308 varieties..... and then  theres the siemens tubes i have yet to try, i feel those will be real winners with HD 800.
> 
> im gonna give a few more 6SN7 a try on WA22, but i feel that the WA22 is next on the chopping block.  its like the WA6-SE, WA22, and WA2 neither is really "Better" than the others, just preference, and seems like neither is perfect either.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The two most "neutral" 6SN7 variants that I really liked with the WA22 were the Sylvania Brown Base 5692s and Sylvania VT-231s.


----------



## dminches

I find the Sylvania VT-231s to be a bit light on the bass so that may not be a great choice for DG.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dminches said:


> I find the Sylvania VT-231s to be a bit light on the bass so that may not be a great choice for DG.


 
  
  
 sounds like all the 6sn7 are leaner than the 6922 tube type, or maybe just the WA2 is more bassy than the WA22 which seems to focus more on the mids.
  
 i feel like im just gonna be rebuying WA2 since its almost 100% strictly for T1, and i love how the bass is on the T1 with that, really brings it out and makes them really punchy yet musical and balanced. the HD 800 would be nice to put on there as well since it sounds so good, but i'll mostly listen to GS-X.
  
 not looking for anything else for low impedance or any of my other headphones, the GS-X, nothing comes close.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dminches said:


> I find the Sylvania VT-231s to be a bit light on the bass so that may not be a great choice for DG.


 
  
 For neutral...I really like them...for more bass and still very clean, then the 5692s were my personal favourites.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

if the WA2 had 5U4g tubes i think it'd be perfect


----------



## jc9394

Calling SO...

Wooless but enjoying 15 yrs pu erh with Karen...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> if the WA2 had 5U4g tubes i think it'd be perfect




Maybe contact Glenn? I'm after a 5U4G, C3g, with 45 or 300B...


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> Maybe contact Glenn? I'm after a 5U4G, C3g, with 45 or 300B...


 
  
 yummy!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

think glenn can build me one then?

OTL with 6as7g pairs single 5u4/gz37 variants and 6922/6dj8 pair?

maybe another tube type if possible?


----------



## jc9394

PM him, we are still working on tube combo. Definitely 5U4G and C3g, just not sure on 300B or 45. 300B will be less expensive but I don't want it to sound like WA5LE unless I decided to sell it. But I have a good stock of 6SN7 tubes...decision decision...


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> PM him, we are still working on tube combo. Definitely 5U4G and C3g, just not sure on 300B or 45. 300B will be less expensive but I don't want it to sound like WA5LE unless I decided to sell it. But I have a good stock of 6SN7 tubes...decision decision...


 
  
 Is there a custom tube amp thread here? Would be very interested to see that.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how much do his amps cost?


----------



## jc9394

His price is very reasonable, we are still getting parts/quote for my spec.


----------



## dminches

dubstep girl said:


> think glenn can build me one then?
> 
> OTL with 6as7g pairs single 5u4/gz37 variants and 6922/6dj8 pair?
> 
> maybe another tube type if possible?




That's close to what I have. OTL with 6AS7Gs or 5998s, GZ37 and 1 6SN7. Absolutely perfect with my T1s.


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> Is there a custom tube amp thread here? Would be very interested to see that.




See SO's Glenn studio thread.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> See SO's Glenn studio thread.


 
  
 oh i have been there


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Calling SO...


 


> Wooless


 





  
  


> but enjoying 15 yrs pu erh with Karen...


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> how much do his amps cost?


 
  
 Like running water, it varies. It will depend on design, parts selected, sourcing and labour (for those of you across the pond...).


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > See SO's Glenn studio thread.
> ...


 
  
 If not my thread, where does "here" refer to, if I may ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WAAOU?


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> If not my thread, where does "here" refer to, if I may ask
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 "here"? - i said "there". What does WAAOU mean?


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> "here"? - i said "there". What does WAAOU mean?


 
  
 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:What_does_WAAOU_stand_for%3F


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> If not my thread, where does "here" refer to, if I may ask
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I guess I should have clarify this, what I meant you started it as OP.


----------



## magiccabbage

I am still confused


----------



## Ultrainferno

+1 lol


----------



## Clayton SF

Huh? LWU-


----------



## jc9394

jc9394 said:


> The WA5LE has left CT, I may have a chance receive it tomorrow. Only one tracking number is updated.


 
  
 I guess no Woo today, still said on vehicle for delivery but I have to go soon...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Have dinner reservation that I made couple months ago...


----------



## Joshhh

Ohh the agony. Waiting for a package on delivery day is like forcing yourself to go to sleep on Christmas when you were a kid. :3 
 I am planning on buying my own WA5 LE if I cannot find one used.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just got some bendix/chatham 6080wb, wow!


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> just got some bendix/chatham 6080wb, wow!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


>


 
  
 Warm - ?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

to get the best out of the 22 you need to roll tubes, it allows much more flexibility to fine tune than the other Woos. Unfortunately this means a good stock...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

not sure. the soundstage is huge, and the bass is actually decent,  not sure how to describe sound since i'm getting used to WA22, but i like them.
  
 also surprised how transparent they sound. i thought they where gonna be grainy compared to 5998/GEC/7236, but they're even better than 5998/7236 in transparency alone, though not quite at the level of the GEC.
  
 now i just need to buy a pair of WE 421A


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I guess I should have clarify this, what I meant you started it as OP.


 




 Your post was clear, MC's threw me off a bit...


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > If not my thread, where does "here" refer to, if I may ask
> ...


 
  
  
_"Is there a custom tube amp thread *here*? Would be very interested to see that." _


----------



## GrindingThud

Mmmmmmmmm.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> not sure. the soundstage is huge, and the bass is actually decent,  not sure how to describe sound since i'm getting used to WA22, but i like them.
> 
> also surprised how transparent they sound. i thought they where gonna be grainy compared to 5998/GEC/7236, but they're even better than 5998/7236 in transparency alone, though not quite at the level of the GEC.
> 
> now i just need to buy a pair of WE 421A


 
  
 Congrats on the recovery. You banged out that new order so fast, smoke had begun to emerge from your keyboard! Just another day
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for a world class gamer...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nic rhodes said:


> to get the best out of the 22 you need to roll tubes, it allows much more flexibility to fine tune than the other Woos. Unfortunately this means a good stock...


 
  
 i am seeing this is true.  very expensive.
  
 thats why i might try to find an amp like WA22 that has the same tubes , but uses 6922 instead, i think i'd like that more.
  
 5U4gs are expensive, i have a good variety to roll, and theres plenty more good ones out there to try out. i'm gonna try and buy a western electric 422A and a GEC U52 soon.
  
 i think i have every 6AS7G thats decent except the WE421A which is on my to-buy list as well.
  
 anyways, looks like to have a good stock means spending at least the price of the amp in tubes, if not more. depending on whether you want the best or just decent tubes.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> not sure. the soundstage is huge, and the bass is actually decent,  not sure how to describe sound since i'm getting used to WA22, but i like them.
> 
> also surprised how transparent they sound. i thought they where gonna be grainy compared to 5998/GEC/7236, but they're even better than 5998/7236 in transparency alone, though not quite at the level of the GEC.
> 
> now i just need to buy a pair of WE 421A


 
  
  
 Be sure to let us know your ongoing impressions of the Bendix graphite columns, as they are a very interesting tube (sonically.)


----------



## jc9394

joshhh said:


> Ohh the agony. Waiting for a package on delivery day is like forcing yourself to go to sleep on Christmas when you were a kid. :3
> I am planning on buying my own WA5 LE if I cannot find one used.




You never know, there may be one in the near future...


----------



## jc9394

jc9394 said:


> I guess no Woo today, still said on vehicle for delivery but I have to go soon...:mad:    Have dinner reservation that I made couple months ago...




Well, the omakasa is so good that the WA5LE can wait an extra day.


----------



## Mihis

Hello everybody
  
 Just got my WA2 tubed, heated up and pushing music to T1's and my ears Glorious stuff sofar! Had it sitting on my table for a week all alone and tubeless. Was excruciating to say the least. But now all is goooooood...
  
 Got a pile of tubes and more is on the way. Waiting also for a DAC to get most out of it. Tubegymnastics coming up!


----------



## Ultrainferno

We need pictures! And Congrats on the Woo!


----------



## Mihis

Pics are on the way as soon as I get some listening done I need to move it to a bit better place for pics.


----------



## Joshhh

jc9394 said:


> Well, the omakasa is so good that the WA5LE can wait an extra day.


 
  
 Well you should let me know if there is. ^_^


----------



## jc9394

Here it is...


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow. Don't tell me that I've got to jump on theWA5 bandwagon as well. They look fantastic. I see Jack is shipping them in wooden crates again. For a time he switched to shipping them in cardboard boxes. The crates are better.


----------



## jc9394

No, this is used.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> No, this is used.


 
  
 Nice. It looks shiny and new. Now go get some shiny and old tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice!!!!!
  
 now update your profile!!


----------



## jc9394

Tells you I still miss the WA22...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i miss my WA2...
  






 
  
 just got these grey glasses, the sound is better than the treasures for sure. great midrange, really comes out nicely. but not as silky or euphonic as WA2, despite the warmth, and the bass sucks compared to WA2. it feels like it goes deep sometimes, but it also feels like it lacks impact slam and a good decay. just doesn't seem to handle the T1 as nice.
  
 the HD 800 sound GREAT but i was happy out of WA2 and GSX still miles better.
  
 i can see why macedonianhero sold his T1 when he owned WA22, they have good mids, but are outperformed by hd 800 and audeze. and the bass doesn't move me like with the WA2. that special magic isn't there.


----------



## ardilla

clayton sf said:


> Wow. Don't tell me that I've got to jump on theWA5 bandwagon as well. They look fantastic. I see Jack is shipping them in *wooden crates again*. For a time he switched to shipping them in cardboard boxes. The crates are better.


 
  
 I think some shipping companies refuse to ship wooden boxes, so this isn't necessarily a good thing..


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> i miss my WA2...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Told you.... .P
  
 I really like the WA22 for it's present mids, it is really nice wit the Audezes and the HD650 and the Q701 - those are the can I use it with. 
  
 I havent tried the T1 on it, though - sold the T1 when I got the WA2, haha - Reason was I found the always found the T1 too bright. I even brought the WA2 to unbrighten it. But it didn't help... Otherwise it sounded good. (In order no to scare off someone from the WA2 - I also had an ear issue at that time which certainly made me more sensitive than normal. But T1 can still be bright).


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> if the WA2 had 5U4g tubes i think it'd be perfect


 
  
 Ever considered, tried, or owned the Leben CS300? I think it has some of the WA22+WA2 qualities..


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Tells you I still miss the WA22...


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> i miss my WA2...


 
  
 Arbitration?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Here it is...


 
  
 Great! But when my Woo arrives, ur gonna see a tall stack of kmk vcd/dvd's next to the amp. You know, _Test Drive _





 material!


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> i miss my WA2...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Actually I sold my T1s well after I sold my WA22....I needed to make room for my SR-009s. That said, I do prefer the T1s with the WA2 over the WA22. With the HD800s, it was most definitely the other way around.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Grats, JC!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Ever considered, tried, or owned the Leben CS300? I think it has some of the WA22+WA2 qualities..


 
  
 considered, but never tried it or felt like getting it. ive heard good things  and not so good things about it. also im not a huge fan of the looks.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ever since I listened and saw the 300CX in real, I've been in love with it. I was even thinking of selling all my amps and replacing it with the Leben, but owning only one amp seems so weird


----------



## ardilla

ultrainferno said:


> Ever since I listened and saw the 300CX in real, I've been in love with it. I was even thinking of selling all my amps and replacing it with the Leben, but owning only one amp seems so weird




You are so right! No amp is good enough to justify having only one!


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> considered, but never tried it or felt like getting it. ive heard good things  and not so good things about it. also im not a huge fan of the looks.




I think you should try one... But I agree, the Woo amps look better. And your idea about a custom made amp seems more intriguing =) But the Leben might have what you are looking for.


----------



## dminches

The Lebens look cool to those of us who owned audio equipment in the 70s.  It is a very retro look.  The Woo are very cool looking for tube-o-philes.


----------



## jc9394

I love the Leben look a lot. Never heard one before but it is on my list if WA5LE does not work out.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> I love the Leben look a lot. Never heard one before but it is on my list if WA5LE does not work out.


 
 Have you started listen yet- WA5LE?


----------



## jc9394

Not yet.


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> I love the Leben look a lot. Never heard one before but it is on my list if WA5LE does not work out.


 
  
 I have not heard all the amps out there, obviously, but I have yet to hear an amp that sounded better than the Leben with my LCD-3s and my ATH-W3000ANVs.  My T1s sound best with Glenn's OTL.  They are a perfect match.


----------



## jc9394

Glenn's custom is on talk now. I want to get it earlier next year. Between head-fi and photography, I'm dead broke now.:mad:


----------



## kazsud

dminches said:


> The Lebens look cool to those of us who owned audio equipment in the 70s.  It is a very retro look.  The Woo are very cool looking for tube-o-philes.



 


I love the look and never owned a vintage before my current Pioneer. Bring it to the meet this month I would love to hear it


----------



## dminches

I will either bring the Leben or the OTL.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Glenn's custom is on talk now. I want to get it earlier next year. Between head-fi and photography, I'm dead broke now.


 
  





 I'll raise you 2 faces


----------



## Joshhh

Looking forward to your take on its sound! Especially since I have the same DAC unit.


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> I have not heard all the amps out there, obviously, but I have yet to hear an amp that sounded better than the Leben with my LCD-3s and my ATH-W3000ANVs.  My T1s sound best with Glenn's OTL.  They are a perfect match.


 
 Great with T1's, i like the sound of that. Have you heard the WA2. Could you say what it sounds like compared to that for T1?


----------



## dminches

I haven't, but if you send me one I'll be sure to compare them.


----------



## ardilla

dminches said:


> I have not heard all the amps out there, obviously, but I have yet to hear an amp that sounded better than the Leben with my LCD-3s and my ATH-W3000ANVs.  My T1s sound best with Glenn's OTL.  They are a perfect match.




+1 on the LCD3/Leben

I also like the Hifimans a lot, HE500 is superb, HE6 great from the speaker taps using HE adapter. And drives speakers!

Don't get me wrong about the looks, it looks great, but the Woos are cooler.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I love the Leben look a lot. Never heard one before but it is on my list if WA5LE does not work out.


 

 Stop by my place on your next visit to SF and you can listen to my Leben CS-600. Before or after sashimi and sake?


----------



## jc9394

Thanks Clayton, definitely before sake.  After sake, everything wi just sound great.


----------



## Mihis

Gotta say, but Clayton is coming high up on my fav peeps in the world
  
 Just awesome.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ I blush. Thanks!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

dubstep girl said:


> i am seeing this is true.  very expensive.
> 
> thats why i might try to find an amp like WA22 that has the same tubes , but uses 6922 instead, i think i'd like that more.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't rush on the WE421A, but a good GEC U52 is nice. Don't get hung up on the GEC or the U52 bit however, there are some great examples that say neither that are identical


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think i'm gonna re-buy WA2, or see if glenn can make me a custom OTL with 5U4G, 6922, and 6AS7G/5998


----------



## Silent One

Your satisfaction lies just around the bend. Good to know you never lost focus.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nic rhodes said:


> Don't rush on the WE421A, but a good GEC U52 is nice. Don't get hung up on the GEC or the U52 bit however, there are some great examples that say neither that are identical


 
 what about WE422A rectifier? i'm thinking of picking one of those up as well...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i think the WA22 isn't gonna work out for me. tried GEC 6AS7G / 596 / and both the smoked glass rca and the tung sol 6f8g and even the treasures. its just not working out. substituting the eml, the tung sol 7236, the 5998, or the 6080wb was different, but it just feels like the power tubes and the rectifiers aren't really being taken full advantage of. i don't hear the uber clarity and crispness of the 596, nor the beautiful tone of the GEC, and the bass isn't really what i want. the soundstage is huge but its too much for me on HD 800 and the T1 doesn't sound like itself.
  
 i think the 6sn7 sound just isn't for me or the improvements/changes in the WA22 vs the WA2 weren't enough for me. i want to buy WA2 again, but then i won't have an amp for 5U4G tubes, so i'm gonna talk to glenn soon and see what he can do.


----------



## ardilla

I am very curious about the sonic differences between your HotRodded Über-Upgraded WA22 and the normal edition. 

Upgrades alter the sound, and maybe it tilts the sound signature in the wrong direction for you. 

If you didn't live so far away, I'd send you mine for comparison, ) 




dubstep girl said:


> yeah i think the WA22 isn't gonna work out for me. tried GEC 6AS7G / 596 / and both the smoked glass rca and the tung sol 6f8g and even the treasures. its just not working out. substituting the eml, the tung sol 7236, the 5998, or the 6080wb was different, but it just feels like the power tubes and the rectifiers aren't really being taken full advantage of. i don't hear the uber clarity and crispness of the 596, nor the beautiful tone of the GEC, and the bass isn't really what i want. the soundstage is huge but its too much for me on HD 800 and the T1 doesn't sound like itself.
> 
> i think the 6sn7 sound just isn't for me or the improvements/changes in the WA22 vs the WA2 weren't enough for me. i want to buy WA2 again, but then i won't have an amp for 5U4G tubes, so i'm gonna talk to glenn soon and see what he can do.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> I am very curious about the sonic differences between your HotRodded Über-Upgraded WA22 and the normal edition.
> 
> Upgrades alter the sound, and maybe it tilts the sound signature in the wrong direction for you.
> 
> If you didn't live so far away, I'd send you mine for comparison, )


 
  
 aww thanks, yeah i wonder what the differences are as well.
  
 i think the WA22 is good, but if its an upgrade, i wonder how good or bad the stock sounds.


----------



## ardilla

I find the stock WA22 a very good amp, also compared to the wa2, Leben CS300 and various SS amps. But it has it's flavor, like all amps. . I haven't owned the HD800 or T1 in a while, and neither did I ever tube roll the wa2 as extensively as you have done. 

Lots of people like the hd800 with wa22, the guy who sold me mine preferred this combo to Stax 007/323. And it sounded really good, although I just had a brief listen. 

I use the WA22 with LCD3, HD650, Q701 and the HE500 and Shure 1840 all sound very nice. 

But as you have made very clear wa2 and wa22 are quite different and is a mistake to assume that wa22 is an upgrade in every way. Especially with high impedance cans. 

Maybe you just got your wa2 tuned to perfection and never will find anything better , )


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> I find the stock WA22 a very good amp, also compared to the wa2. I haven't owned the HD800 or T1 in a while, and neither did I ever tube roll the wa2 as extensively as you have done.
> 
> Lots of people like the hd800 with wa22, the guy who sold me mine preferred this combo to Stax 007/323. And it sounded really good, although I just had a brief listen.
> 
> ...


 
  
 maybe so, but it still had some issues.
  
 mostly cause of the amperex bugle boys or amperex holland a frames, those are still mid/entry lvl amperex. the bugle boys where a little on the lush side at times, the a frames a little too much on treble at times, but close to perfect, if i finished maxing out my tubes, with Amperex PQ whites or the rare and expensive Amperex 6922 pinched waist d-getter, might be even better. also i never got to tube roll any siemens tubes.
  
 the rectifiers on WA2 i think i had right, but i wanted to try and find some genalex U709, rare version of the EZ80/EZ81. then it'd be perfect!
  
 i think the WA22 can get better with different tubes, perhaps with the western electric or GEC rectifiers, but i don't think the bass will be to my liking, it definitely focuses more on the midrange, detail, and has a sort of warmth to it, while being dynamic and full. i think its tubier than WA2. rather than silky smooth and laid back yet musical and punchy, the WA22 has more of a magic tube like midrange, spacious, airy, warm, lush, and full. but it seems a little colored to me at times, a little too much. and there is more treble on WA22 than WA2, but its also warmer at times. and the bass is softer like some tube amps. 
  
 maybe the 6sn7 sound isn't for me


----------



## GrindingThud

Edit, just noticed the Mytek in your sig.....nevermind.

@DG have you tried it with a balanced source? It may not change the midrange but could add some extra punch.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> maybe so, but it still had some issues.
> 
> mostly cause of the amperex bugle boys or amperex holland a frames, those are still mid/entry lvl amperex. the bugle boys where a little on the lush side at times, the a frames a little too much on treble at times, but close to perfect, if i finished maxing out my tubes, with Amperex PQ whites or the rare and expensive Amperex 6922 pinched waist d-getter, might be even better. also i never got to tube roll any siemens tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with most of you impressions, but never thought of the bass as soft, rather the opposite. I feel the WA22 has a tight bass, but  with some rectifiers it gets a bit light in quantity (eg the EML5U4G). With the rectifiers like CV275, Brimar 5U4G, Mullad GZ33 I find the bass very nice.


----------



## ardilla

grindingthud said:


> @DG have you tried it with a balanced source? It may not change the midrange but could add some extra punch.


 
  
 Balanced is a necessity to get the full value out of the WA22, since it only gives half the ouput power with unbalanced inputs (no conversion done inside the amp).


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> .....
> maybe the 6sn7 sound isn't for me


 
  
 Maybe you don't like ouput transformers? WA2 beeing OTL might make it easier for the power and drive tubes to "come through". When you don't need the power and lowered output impedance of transformer coupled amps, why add output transformers, right?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Maybe you don't like ouput transformers? WA2 beeing OTL might make it easier for the power and drive tubes to "come through". When you don't need the power and lowered output impedance of transformer coupled amps, why add output transformers, right?


 
  
 hmmm i guess you're right.
  
 maybe i just like the OTL sound, just wish WA2 would work well with low impedance as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> I agree with most of you impressions, but never thought of the bass as soft, rather the opposite. I feel the WA22 has a tight bass, but  with some rectifiers it gets a bit light in quantity (eg the EML5U4G). With the rectifiers like CV275, Brimar 5U4G, Mullad GZ33 I find the bass very nice.


 
 some of those are also too lush for me, they get too tubey or slow, or the bass becomes a little bloaty despite the good bass quantity.
  
 seems only the best of the best tubes come close to perfection. maybe the GEC would have that.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> hmmm i guess you're right.
> 
> maybe i just like the OTL sound, just wish WA2 would work well with low impedance as well.


 
  
 Well, OTL's are inherently high output impedance so unless I am wrong, that is wishing for quite a lot.. 
  
 But the Leben CS300 is _really _nice with low impedance stuff. It has output transformers, though, but I find it generally better balanced than the WA22, with more bass quantity (no loose bass - albeit not super SS tight). 
  
 So - if you sell the WA22 and your big rectifiers, you can rebuy a WA2 (maybe you can get a hot rodded one) in a couple of months of NOT buying tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , you might have enough money to aquire a nicely used CS300 ,) So then you have the WA2, GS-X and Leben - which is probalby gonna suit you extremely well. Or you can just get the WA5 - but then - it's risky business - you might not like it. Maybe it is even more WA22 than WA22


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Well, OTL's are inherently high output impedance so unless I am wrong, that is wishing for quite a lot..
> 
> But the Leben CS300 is really nice with low impedance stuff. It has transformers, though, but I find it generally better balanced than the WA22, with more bass quantity.
> 
> ...


 
  
 should of bought the maxed wa2 with blackgates that ultrainferno had on sale a few weeks ago....
  
 i think 300B would be too mid centric for me, and i know ive see several accounts of it having less bass than normal.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> should of bought the maxed wa2 with blackgates that ultrainferno had on sale a few weeks ago....
> 
> i think 300B would be too mid centric for me, and i know ive see several accounts of it having less bass than normal.


 
  
 I am sure you can get other nice caps for a wa2. Black Gates are hard to get, but you always have Duelund... Time for you to start soldering, DG 
  
 Looking forward to the worlds first and only WA2 with double big mighty 596


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> I am sure you can get other nice caps for a wa2. Black Gates are hard to get, but you always have Duelund... Time for you to start soldering, DG
> 
> Looking forward to the worlds first and only WA2 with double big mighty 596


 
  
 !!!!#!@#@!##!@#@!##@!###


----------



## 2359glenn

ardilla said:


> Well, OTL's are inherently high output impedance so unless I am wrong, that is wishing for quite a lot..
> 
> But the Leben CS300 is _really _nice with low impedance stuff. It has output transformers, though, but I find it generally better balanced than the WA22, with more bass quantity (no loose bass - albeit not super SS tight).
> 
> ...


 

 But then she is back to a push pull amp like the WA-22 !!     Except it has a phase inverter that a WA-22 doesn't have so you 
 have to feed the WA-22 balanced
 SE almost always sound better.


----------



## ardilla

Talking about the Wa5 or the Leben?

Anyway, haven't heard the wa5, but the Leben is magical.

@2359glenn How would you design DGs dream amp? Can you make the WA2 with 596s I posted ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Talking about the Wa5 or the Leben?
> 
> Anyway, haven't heard the wa5, but the Leben is magical.
> 
> @2359glenn How would you design DGs dream amp? Can you make the WA2 with 596s I posted ?


 
  


2359glenn said:


> But then she is back to a push pull amp like the WA-22 !!     Except it has a phase inverter that a WA-22 doesn't have so you
> have to feed the WA-22 balanced
> SE almost always sound better.


 
  
  
 yeah Glenn, would it possible to make a WA2 kinda OTL amp with 5U4G/5AR4/274B rectifiers instead of the EZ80? single rectifier if possible?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i think i'm gonna re-buy WA2, or see if glenn can make me a custom OTL with 5U4G, 6922, and 6AS7G/5998




Sorry, it didn't work out like we hope it will be. PM Glenn he may be able to do some magic for you.


----------



## longbowbbs

ardilla said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > should of bought the maxed wa2 with blackgates that ultrainferno had on sale a few weeks ago....
> ...


 
 That is a beautiful thing! Reminds me of my Cary....


----------



## jc9394

DG, what kind of source you are using before the DAC?


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> yeah Glenn, would it possible to make a WA2 kinda OTL amp with 5U4G/5AR4/274B rectifiers instead of the EZ80? single rectifier if possible?


 

 OK
 But with a 6SN7 driver not the 6922 I don't really like the sound of 9 pin tubes        If you must have a 6922 we can make a adapter
 The rectifier could use the 596 but I don't know about the 5U4G or 274B Silent One uses the 596 in his and it is holding up
 The 5AR4 is fine and I will supply a 3DG4 that can handle 350ma 
 The amp will take 3.3 volt rectifier as well as the 5 volt
 I run the 6AS7s at 100ma each so they sound good and can drive lower impedance headphones as well as high
 So the total current is over what a 5U4G can supply at 220ma A 596 or 5U4GB will be OK though they can handle 270ma.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> OK
> But with a 6SN7 driver not the 6922 I don't really like the sound of 9 pin tubes        If you must have a 6922 we can make a adapter
> The rectifier could use the 596 but I don't know about the 5U4G or 274B Silent One uses the 596 in his and it is holding up
> The 5AR4 is fine and I will supply a 3DG4 that can handle 350ma
> ...


 
  
 so kinda like silent one's OTL and this guys? http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/697715/glenn-otl/


----------



## Nic Rhodes

dubstep girl said:


> what about WE422A rectifier? i'm thinking of picking one of those up as well...




I don't own one, sorry


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> so kinda like silent one's OTL and this guys? http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/697715/glenn-otl/


 

 Or like one of these with the larger chassis
  
 This one showing it using 6336 tubes with there monster cathodes. Will also take 6AS7s and all it's variants.
 The top picture is using a GZ37 rectifier and the bottom is using the 3DG4 rectifier


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so many options 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 it would be nice if it could use all the 5u4g/274b/gz34 variants like the woo amps though.  since i have quite a few choices to tube roll
  
 that first amp in the picture, is that the GEC BL63?


----------



## dminches

DG, you have some GZ37s, right?  That what I use in Glenn's current OTL design.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dminches said:


> DG, you have some GZ37s, right?  That what I use in Glenn's current OTL design.


 
  
 yeah, as well as these other rectifiers. it'd be nice if it was compatible with all of them. i have yet to try GZ37 on WA22 btw, i didn't like it too much on WA6-SE
  
 596, 5u4g, gz34, gz37, 274b, and 5r4gy


----------



## GalaxyGuy

ardilla said:


> Well, OTL's are inherently high output impedance so unless I am wrong, that is wishing for quite a lot..
> 
> *But the Leben CS300 is really nice with low impedance stuff. It has output transformers, though, but I find it generally better balanced than the WA22, with more bass quantity (no loose bass - albeit not super SS tight). *
> 
> ...


 
 The Leben CS300 has balanced XLR out? I thought it was SE only.  Please enlighten me!  I'm somewhat interested in the Lebel CS300, but I'm not sure how to get ahold of one in the US.


----------



## dminches

The 300sx is SE only.  I think he meant balanced in terms of the sound, not the configuration.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dubstep girl said:


> yeah, as well as these other rectifiers. it'd be nice if it was compatible with all of them. i have yet to try GZ37 on WA22 btw, i didn't like it too much on WA6-SE
> 
> 596, 5u4g, gz34, gz37, 274b, and 5r4gy


 
 Um...WOW!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> Um...WOW!


 
  
 of course i also have a good amount of 5998/6AS7G 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i have less tubes than i used to have though, cause i sold WA6-SE and WA2


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> so many options
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes that is a GEC BL63 in the first picture.
 You can try the 5U4G but you will be cooking them  and defiantly not the EML or Sophia tubes to wimpy and will burn up in no time.


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> should of bought the maxed wa2 with blackgates that ultrainferno had on sale a few weeks ago....
> 
> i think 300B would be too mid centric for me, and i know ive see several accounts of it having less bass than normal.


 
  
 That was Clayton's WA2 I sold, a great amp but I could have used even more bass. That's why I'm worried about getting a wa22
 You should listen to Glenn's 300bs like Clayton and mine, there's nothing wrong with its bass
  


dubstep girl said:


> so many options
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Head over to the Glenn thread, I'm sure he can make you something really nice


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> Yes that is a GEC BL63 in the first picture.
> You can try the 5U4G but you will be cooking them  and defiantly not the EML or Sophia tubes to wimpy and will burn up in no time.


 
  
 aww. yeah i guess they are wimpy lol


----------



## GalaxyGuy

So, this being my 100th post, I thought I would like to say what a great group of people there are on this thread.  Yes, it is clear that I am an utterly rank newbie compared to the likes of DG, Clayton, FrankI, etc., etc., but I have learned a great deal from this group and I thought you all should know it.  I have enjoyed listening to music in all of its many forms for my whole life, but in the past several months that love has been rekindled even further.  As a high school teacher, I have known for years that I would never be in the position to afford the stratosphere-fi stuff that is out there, and had resigned myself to listening to a mediocre home system.  My awareness of the head-fi world was pretty much null until quite recently.  I now feel that I am in a position to own a system that sounds worlds better than what I've been listening to for quite a while, maybe rivaling some $30k+ systems, without completely killing my bank account (only giving it a severe wound!).  I appreciate the insights and kind offers that I've received from this community over the past several months, and I look forward hearing your collective opinions about the head-fi world and beyond for a long time to come.  Cheers.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> yeah, as well as these other rectifiers. it'd be nice if it was compatible with all of them. i have yet to try GZ37 on WA22 btw, i didn't like it too much on WA6-SE
> 
> 596, 5u4g, gz34, gz37, 274b, and 5r4gy


 

 You can use most of them just take the EMLs and Sophia out of the picture the rest should be OK


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrainferno said:


> That was Clayton's WA2 I sold, a great amp but I could have used even more bass. That's why I'm worried about getting a wa22
> You should listen to Glenn's 300bs like Clayton and mine, there's nothing wrong with its bass
> 
> 
> Head over to the Glenn thread, I'm sure he can make you something really nice


 
  
 wa2 had more bass, and it wasn't bassy or anything, just enough and i really liked the sound signature of the amp.
  
 i felt like it really took full advantage of the 6as7g's. and with the wa22, i don't feel that, i feel like i'm burning up my GEC tubes or my 596. 
  
 also i felt 6sn7 on wa22 sounded noisy or microphonic especially the 6f8g, and where generally bass light and too colored sounding. could they sound better on a different amp?


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> wa2 had more bass, and it wasn't bassy or anything, just enough and i really liked the sound signature of the amp.
> 
> i felt like it really took full advantage of the 6as7g's. and with the wa22, i don't feel that, i feel like i'm burning up my GEC tubes or my 596.
> 
> also i felt 6sn7 on wa22 sounded noisy or microphonic especially the 6f8g, and where generally bass light and too colored sounding.


 

 Yes the 6F8 can be noisy it takes a bunch to find a quiet one.
  
 Also part of the sound of a tube is in the operating point it is running at it can sound like crap in one amp
 and great in another that is running it differently.


----------



## ardilla

dminches said:


> The 300sx is SE only.  I think he meant balanced in terms of the sound, not the configuration.




Tip. e Leben is an unbalanced design that sounds balanced, that is; a nice balance between bass, mids and treble, between macro and micro dynamics etc. But do not confuse this with "neutral", it sounds more like "natural".


----------



## ardilla

Both Ultrainferno and Dubstep Girl complaining about lacking bass on their upgraded Woods makes me think that those capacitor upgrades might alter the sound in a bass light direction. 

@Ultra, just get the Leben, it is not lacking: D


----------



## jc9394

Not sure if the source plays a role here, when I compare the WA22 with beta22, there are more bass with the WA22. One thing I also noticed is the WA22 response better with loseless than MP3 format.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I dont have a 22. But i find the Wa2 already lighter on the bass and if the 22 is even lighter...
Yes I really want a leben. Stop talking about it


----------



## jc9394

I want a Leben too, my next amp after Glenn...


----------



## Clayton SF

ardilla said:


> Both Ultrainferno and Dubstep Girl complaining about lacking bass on their upgraded Woods makes me think that those capacitor upgrades might alter the sound in a bass light direction.
> @Ultra, just get the Leben, it is not lacking: D


 
  
 I just thought I'd share this with all of you--
  
 On January 30, 2010 I emailed Jack and asked him the following question before I placed my order for a WA2:
  
 Jack,
   

  What impact does 

Black Gate output coupling capacitors, 220u/100v
Black Gate voltage filtering capacitors, Power Tank 220uf/200V
  
 have on WA2?; do you offer other capacitors other than Black Gates; and

  can I use EZ81 rectifier as well as EZ80?

  
 On Feb 1, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Woo Audio wrote:
  
   These parts are used on the critical path of the amp so they are beneficial. The BG is fast recovery and wide bandwidth, improving dynamic and sound stage.

  

 EZ81 and 6V4 can be used instead of EZ80.

  

 Thanks,

 Jack

  

 As some of you know, I did get the Black Gate upgrades and this is the same WA2 that Ultra- sold to Mihis for me.

  

_*Croatia1, Belgium 2*_

_*Congratulations, Belgium, for reaching World Cup Finals.*_


----------



## ardilla

^ If the BG caps are "fast recovery" which might lead to tighter bass, this can in effect be felt as less bass quantity, ie "less bass" 

I think caps alter the sound signature, and often the sound signature is more important than technical performance. Which might in part explain why Ultra and DG differ on the wa2, and DG and I differ on the wa22.


----------



## Clayton SF

ardilla said:


> The BG caps are "fast recovery" which might lead to tighter bass which can in effect be felt as less bass quantity, ie "less bass"
> I think caps alter the sound signature, and often the sound signature is more important than technical performance.


 
  
 Then would a "tighter bass" (probably what the sound engineer had intended to reproduce) be preferable over "more bass" (a personal preference)?


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> maybe so, but it still had some issues.
> 
> mostly cause of the amperex bugle boys or amperex holland a frames, those are still mid/entry lvl amperex. the bugle boys where a little on the lush side at times, the a frames a little too much on treble at times, but close to perfect, if i finished maxing out my tubes, *with Amperex PQ whites* or the rare and expensive Amperex 6922 pinched waist d-getter, might be even better. also i never got to tube roll any siemens tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm just putting in my Amperex (Holland) 6922* PQ* whites, replacing my Amperex (Holland) 6922 whites in the WA 2.  I'll let you know of the change in sound (Brimar EZ80=>TS 5998=>Amperex (Holland) 6922* PQ* whites with HD 800.)


----------



## ardilla

clayton sf said:


> Then would a "tighter bass" (probably what the sound engineer had intended to reproduce) be preferable over "more bass" (a personal preference)?





Yup, thats the question. I know I often prefer technically inferior sound because I just like it. Bass bloom, slightly congested mids, spiced up highs, all depending..


----------



## Clayton SF

ardilla said:


> Yup, thats the question. I know I often prefer technically inferior sound because I just like it. Bass bloom, slightly congested mids, _*spiced up*_ highs, all depending..


 
  
 Just like my food.


----------



## ru4music

clayton sf said:


> Then would a "tighter bass" (probably what the sound engineer had intended to reproduce) be preferable over "more bass" (a personal preference)?


 

 In my opinion, yes!  Over time, I believe a critical listener would acclimate to a purer sound and be more satisfied with the listening experience overall.  YEDMV (your eardrums may vary)


----------



## ardilla

ru4music said:


> In my opinion, yes!  Over time, I believe a critical listener would acclimate to a purer sound and be more satisfied with the listening experience overall.  YEDMV (your eardrums may vary)




Some critical listeners own high end gear and still enjoys less perfection due to enjoyable sound signatures. I for one, enjoy the variation of my headphone harem. Same way I can enjoy Michelin Star restaurants and Burger King, to make another metaphor....


----------



## regular.guy

Just purchased a pair of Shuguang 300bc's for my WA5, and a pair of "Preferred Series" 247's for the rectifiers (although I am not expecting a major change with the 247's).  I'll let ya'll know if they are any good, as I have not seen anyone rate these tubes yet.  I was gonna buy the Psvane cv181's, but i decided to see how these work out first, currently using the GE 6sn7's NOS stock tubes.  Also just put in an order for a pair of Audeze LCD-2's.  An expensive day indeed!


----------



## Clayton SF

ardilla said:


> Some critical listeners own high end gear and still enjoys less perfection due to enjoyable sound signatures. I for one, enjoy the variation of my headphone harem. Same way I can enjoy _*Michelin Star restaurants and Burger King*_, to make another metaphor....


 
  
 Hear, hear (no pun intended--okay, maybe). Me too. When I was in Amsterdam last August, I enjoyed a Michelin Star restaurant and meals at _*Febo*_. I the love the variety that life offers us.


----------



## ru4music

ardilla said:


> Some critical listeners own high end gear and still enjoys less perfection due to enjoyable sound signatures. I for one, enjoy the variation of my headphone harem. Same way I can enjoy Michelin Star restaurants and Burger King, to make another metaphor....


 

 Agreed!  We experience more enjoyable distortions than we realize.


----------



## ru4music

clayton sf said:


> Hear, hear (no pun intended--okay, maybe). Me too. When I was in Amsterdam last August, I enjoyed a Michelin Star restaurant and meals at _*Febo*_. I the love the variety that life offers us.


 

 I'm noticing a food theme here... are you hungry?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i didnt notice any more tightness on wa22 than wa2, just less bass

only thing i noticed was the bigger soundstage and more forward mids which os part of the wa22 sound signature


----------



## Silent One

Perfect or perceived perfection-
  
 Let us not forget valuable lessons learned from Greek Architecture: compensating for illusions (the _entasis effect_).  Is it possible for an amp that uses perfect parts for the job, have a presentation that sounds anything but? When voicing an amp, a good designer would know when and where to compensate to get closer to that perfect presentation.


----------



## Clayton SF

All I know is I like what I hear so I keep coming back for more.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> All I know is I like what I hear so I keep coming back for more.


 
 I'm with you on that


----------



## Glam Bash

dubstep girl said:


> yeah i think the WA22 isn't gonna work out for me. tried GEC 6AS7G / 596 / and both the smoked glass rca and the tung sol 6f8g and even the treasures. its just not working out. substituting the eml, the tung sol 7236, the 5998, or the 6080wb was different, but it just feels like the power tubes and the rectifiers aren't really being taken full advantage of. i don't hear the uber clarity and crispness of the 596, nor the beautiful tone of the GEC, and the bass isn't really what i want. the soundstage is huge but its too much for me on HD 800 and the T1 doesn't sound like itself.
> 
> i think the 6sn7 sound just isn't for me or the improvements/changes in the WA22 vs the WA2 weren't enough for me. i want to buy WA2 again, but then i won't have an amp for 5U4G tubes, so i'm gonna talk to glenn soon and see what he can do.


 
 You really should try a pair of Sylvania Chrome domes(cheap) or the overly chromed domes(cheap too)  Xcalibur referred to in the 6SN7 thread before you give up. I thought the apex peak/volcano was bass light and would never match the WA6SE for punch and extension until I stuck one those with the messy chrome paint jobs in.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

But bassy tubes tend to be less resolving. I want the good tubes to have decent bass as well.

Also im thinking of buying that new audeze that just came out....


----------



## M Coupe

After reading the WA22 impressions, I am curious about where the Cavalli LG fits in sound wise. Say vs. the 5LE, Leben or Glenn custom. There are so many upgrade paths that it can be a bit confusing. I am happy with my WA6-SE but it is never too early to start dreaming


----------



## Glam Bash

dubstep girl said:


> But bassy tubes tend to be less resolving. I want the good tubes to have decent bass as well.
> 
> Also im thinking of buying that new audeze that just came out....




I find them to be very transparent and resolving of detail. The treble is also very extended, but not tipped up like the ken rads. However, not as euphonic on female vocals like the 6SNGT.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> i didnt notice any more tightness on wa22 than wa2, just less bass
> 
> only thing i noticed was the bigger soundstage and more forward mids which os part of the wa22 sound signature


 
  
 I find this strange. But then the only high impedance headphone I have now is the HD650. I definitely feel the bass is tighter and punchier with the WA22, regardless of tubes used. I am rally getting curious about this - if someone drops in and lend me a T1 I will definitely try it out.


----------



## jc9394

After reading DG's impression with WA22, I really think once your amp reached certain point it is more like difference sound signature and personal preference than a major upgrade. The law of diminish of return start to kick in...

We are all after the perfection but is there a real perfect amp out there?


----------



## ardilla

jc9394 said:


> After reading DG's impression with WA22, *I really think once your amp reached certain point it is more like difference sound signature and personal preference than a major upgrade*. The law of diminish of return start to kick in...
> 
> We are all after the perfection but is there a real perfect amp out there?


 
  
 So true. There is a level where there is enough detail and transparency at all frequencies that what really matters is the other stuff.....


----------



## magiccabbage

ardilla said:


> So true. There is a level where there is enough detail and transparency at all frequencies that what really matters is the other stuff.....


 
 well said,


----------



## V-Duh

mrfcpa said:


> And, for lovers of Woo Audio, their new desktop amp uses tubes for a power supply and gets rid of that big brick. I'm old and can't always bring names to mind. But you all know it as the glass enclosed amp/dac. It is fantastic as well - as are their mono-blocks.


 
 This is a quote from someone at CanJam.  Does anyone know what he's referring to?  I'm assuming he's talking about the WA7 but I have not heard of any changes to the power supply.


----------



## regular.guy

Anyone ever buy from www.thetubeco.com? The prices are cheaper than The Tube Depot or the Tube Store, but something tells me that we may be getting the domestic "seconds" not meant for export.


----------



## magiccabbage

regular.guy said:


> Anyone ever buy from www.thetubeco.com? The prices are cheaper than The Tube Depot or the Tube Store, but something tells me that we may be getting the domestic "seconds" not meant for export.


 
 they dont have a big selection. where are the EZ80, 6080/5998, ?


----------



## jc9394

This is interesting...

http://www.thetubeco.com/psvane/psvane-we300b-1-1-replica-matched-pair.html


----------



## ru4music

jc9394 said:


> This is interesting...
> 
> http://www.thetubeco.com/psvane/psvane-we300b-1-1-replica-matched-pair.html


 
  
 Psvane sells these direct (free shipping) for $935:
  
 http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-we300b-11-replica/
  
 I believe Grant Fidelity is the N. American contact:
  
 http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/


----------



## jc9394

ardilla said:


> So true. There is a level where there is enough detail and transparency at all frequencies that what really matters is the other stuff.....




Synergy is what we all after but it is extreme hard to achieve since we can't audition before purchase.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> ardilla said:
> 
> 
> > So true. There is a level where there is enough detail and transparency at all frequencies that what really matters is the other stuff.....
> ...


 
 +1 to that!


----------



## Silent One

For me, two things that have served me well in this hobby are:
  
 1. Understanding my emotions
 2. Revisiting experiences, be it a day-week-month-year later


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> After reading DG's impression with WA22, I really think once your amp reached certain point it is more like difference sound signature and personal preference than a major upgrade. The law of diminish of return start to kick in...
> 
> We are all after the perfection but is there a real perfect amp out there?




Thats how i felt, it wasnt necessarily better or worse, just different.


----------



## thune

v-duh said:


> This is a quote from someone at CanJam.  Does anyone know what he's referring to?  I'm assuming he's talking about the WA7 but I have not heard of any changes to the power supply.


 

 Woo was showing off a tube power supply for the WA7 using two 12AU7 for rectification. The concept was demo'd as a separate box that looked identical to the WA7 (the prototype still had a volume knob!). They are developing this as an upgrade for compulsive tube rollers, since the 6C45 gain/power tube of the WA7 only has 2 current production options and apparently doesn't satisfy those with the itch to roll. Speculated pricing was $300 and is preliminary.
  
 I can confirm that in their demo setup (with hifiman HE-500s), the tube power supply clearly sounded different (fuller with less grain and etch, but possibly with less detail.)


----------



## V-Duh

thune said:


> v-duh said:
> 
> 
> > This is a quote from someone at CanJam.  Does anyone know what he's referring to?  I'm assuming he's talking about the WA7 but I have not heard of any changes to the power supply.
> ...




Thanks for the heads-up Thune. I'll be interested to see how and if this develops.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Think ill be putting wa22 for sale today. Gonna hold off on rebuying wa2 since it seems gsx just might work for my T1 and Hd800 instead.

Thinking about LCD-X as well.... :confused_face: waiting for more impressions


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> Think ill be putting wa22 for sale today. Gonna hold off on rebuying wa2 since it seems gsx just might work for my T1 and Hd800 instead.
> 
> Thinking about LCD-X as well....
> 
> ...


 
  
 I cant believe what I am reading. DG is gonna be TUBELESS!!


----------



## GrindingThud

That's really cool!



thune said:


> Woo was showing off a tube power supply for the WA7 using two 12AU7 for rectification. The concept was demo'd as a separate box that looked identical to the WA7 (the prototype still had a volume knob!). They are developing this as an upgrade for compulsive tube rollers, since the 6C45 gain/power tube of the WA7 only has 2 current production options and apparently doesn't satisfy those with the itch to roll. Speculated pricing was $300 and is preliminary.
> 
> I can confirm that in their demo setup (with hifiman HE-500s), the tube power supply clearly sounded different (fuller with less grain and etch, but possibly with less detail.)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> I cant believe what I am reading. DG is gonna be TUBELESS!!


 
 keeping all tubes, unless i decide to buy something else, but i still keeping my mighty 596 and 5998s, GEC tubes, etc.


----------



## jc9394

The closed or the open version? I'm interested in the closed one.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> The closed or the open version? I'm interested in the closed one.


 
  
 open, since the closed generally always compromises sound quality, plus it'll be lighter and the TH-900 already serves as a great closed headphone.


----------



## jc9394

I guess I have to get the TH900 if I want a closed headphone. One thing I dislike Audeze is how heavy they are. If they can make it lighter it all be a perfect headphone.


----------



## ardilla

I find the th900 very bright. The Audeze will probably not be..


----------



## jc9394

I love the LCD but they are too heavy, I get headache after couple hours while the HD800 will have no issue after even 4+ hours.


----------



## magiccabbage

ardilla said:


> I find the th900 very bright. The Audeze will probably not be..


 
 really? I have never heard anyone say that. A lot of people say that they are bass monsters. Bright and bassy - now that is interesting.


----------



## ardilla

magiccabbage said:


> really? I have never heard anyone say that. A lot of people say that they are bass monsters. Bright and bassy - now that is interesting.




They are indeed bright and bassy.Typical V shape

And I'm not the only one who feels that way about it. But they are good, If you like bright and bassy..


----------



## Ultrainferno

I love them, but for me they're not bright. Personal preference of course, one of the best closed headphones I've listened to


----------



## jc9394

Did you ever tried W3000ANV or D7000?


----------



## ardilla

jc9394 said:


> Did you ever tried W3000ANV or D7000?




Nope. But fellow headfier @Norway owns and adores thee D7000, but share my impressions of the TH900, which he sold after a few months. 

I have tried theD5000 briefly, they did not feel bright to me


----------



## dminches

The ATH W3000ANVs are superb.


----------



## jc9394

But hard to get now. No more new stock, only used.


----------



## GrindingThud

I'm thinking of getting the DT990 Pro. Seems like a nice entry high impedance headphone that might go well with the WA3 that doesn't break the bank. I'm worried it might be too different from the signature of the HD558 I'm used to and like..Thoughts?


----------



## Silent One

I am neither bothered by the weight of the LCD2 or HE6.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> I love them, but for me they're not bright. Personal preference of course, one of the best closed headphones I've listened to


 
 it will be interesting to see if the new audeze headphone takes the no 1 spot for best closed backed can over the th900


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I am neither bothered by the weight of the LCD2 or HE6.




With my melon head, it is kind of clampy with LCD-2.2 but I do like what I heard. I need a closed one so I can tune my wife out... when she talk to her mom...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> With my melon head, it is kind of clampy with LCD-2.2 but I do like what I heard. *I need a closed one so I can tune my wife out...*
> 
> 
> 
> *when she talk to her mom...*


 





 ...
  





 Okay, as long as she doesn't read my comment,


----------



## Clayton SF

An evening of fun; I'm done.
 My 2007 iMac died.
 I had to get a new one.
 I wasn't prepared so I had to dig deep.
 But this new iMac is fast fast fast.
 So to celebrate.
 Music in harmony produced side by side.
 My first Woo next to my second Leben (the first Leben was used to trade up the second Leben--the 600).


----------



## GalaxyGuy

clayton sf said:


> An evening of fun; I'm done.
> My 2007 iMac died.
> I had to get a new one.
> I wasn't prepared so I had to dig deep.
> ...


 
 Sorry to hear about your computer dying. That's never a good experience.  I've had a bad run of luck recently, too.  My son and I were rear-ended on the freeway 10 days ago, and then someone broke into my office and stole some things off of my desk this morning.  Fortunately they did NOT take the WA22 off of my desk.  Not sure what they were thinking.
  
 I love the look of your Leben. I'm considering saving some pennies for one one of these days.  For now, I am eagerly anticipating the build of my EC amp.  I'm not parting with any of my Woos for the time being, though.  Like you, Clayton, I am slowing accumulating amps!


----------



## Ultrainferno

magiccabbage said:


> it will be interesting to see if the new audeze headphone takes the no 1 spot for best closed backed can over the th900


 
  
 I expected the new closed LCD to have the same price as the LCD-2 or just above, now it's just crazy like the TH900


----------



## ardilla

ultrainferno said:


> I expected the new closed LCD to have the same price as the LCD-2 or just above, now it's just crazy like the TH900




Too many crazy headfiers with too much money...


----------



## atomicbob

galaxyguy said:


> Sorry to hear about your computer dying. That's never a good experience.  I've had a bad run of luck recently, too.  My son and I were rear-ended on the freeway 10 days ago, and then someone broke into my office and stole some things off of my desk this morning.  Fortunately they did NOT take the WA22 off of my desk.  Not sure what they were thinking.
> 
> I love the look of your Leben. I'm considering saving some pennies for one one of these days.  For now, I am eagerly anticipating the build of my EC amp.  I'm not parting with any of my Woos for the time being, though.  Like you, Clayton, I am slowing accumulating amps!


 
 Which EC amp are you having built? I'm awaiting the ZDSE, but like both of you, will add, not replace any Woos, as I find each amp to have its respective strengths. I also note a great deal of similarity of the headphones in yours and my collection. The TH900 is next on my list.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

atomicbob said:


> Which EC amp are you having built? I'm awaiting the ZDSE, but like both of you, will add, not replace any Woos, as I find each amp to have its respective strengths. I also note a great deal of similarity of the headphones in yours and my collection. The TH900 is next on my list.


 
 He's building me a 4 x 2A3 amp.  Here's a pic that he sent me over the weekend:

 Has speaker taps, is using 6c45pi drivers (the same as the WA7), and a 6d22s rectifier.  To the best of my knowledge, the 6c45pi are not being used for output, only as drivers.  Should be a fun amp!


----------



## spagetka

regular.guy said:


> Just purchased a pair of Shuguang 300bc's for my WA5, and a pair of "Preferred Series" 247's for the rectifiers (although I am not expecting a major change with the 247's).  I'll let ya'll know if they are any good, as I have not seen anyone rate these tubes yet.  I was gonna buy the Psvane cv181's, but i decided to see how these work out first, currently using the GE 6sn7's NOS stock tubes.  Also just put in an order for a pair of Audeze LCD-2's.  An expensive day indeed!


 
  For me, 5u4g and 300b stock are fine. Those GEs are quite horrible...


----------



## atomicbob

galaxyguy said:


> He's building me a 4 x 2A3 amp.  Here's a pic that he sent me over the weekend:
> 
> Has speaker taps, is using 6c45pi drivers (the same as the WA7), and a 6d22s rectifier.  To the best of my knowledge, the 6c45pi are not being used for output, only as drivers.  Should be a fun amp!


 
 Wow! Looks beautiful. Bet it will sound spectacular. Just got word my customized ZDSE is in burn-in.


----------



## longbowbbs

atomicbob said:


> galaxyguy said:
> 
> 
> > He's building me a 4 x 2A3 amp.  Here's a pic that he sent me over the weekend:
> ...


 
 Wrong thread, but what did you customize?


----------



## atomicbob

longbowbbs said:


> Wrong thread, but what did you customize?



Quite so, easy to be distracted. P&G volume control. I am a big fan of OTL amps since my introduction with a Woo WA3+, of which I will never part. With a GEC A1834 it is very special through HD800 on my ears. Was ready to go WA2 until I heard the ZDSE which is more complimentary to my WA3+. The WA2 would have been an upgrade but in the same sonic signature as the WA3+.


----------



## longbowbbs

atomicbob said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong thread, but what did you customize?
> ...


 
 The HD800's are great with OTL's...Enjoy the new amp!


----------



## atomicbob

Thank-you. T90 are also good with OTL, but tonight I am going back in time, revisiting Emerson, Lake & Palmer with WA7 and T90. Stock Sovteks. In The Barbarian, Palmer's rapid fire brush work on the snare drum is so articulate and engaging. These are the experiences that make this pursuit of auditory excellence worth the trouble.


----------



## longbowbbs

atomicbob said:


> Thank-you. T90 are also good with OTL, but tonight I am going back in time, revisiting Emerson, Lake & Palmer with WA7 and T90. Stock Sovteks. In The Barbarian, Palmer's rapid fire brush work on the snare drum is so articulate and engaging. These are the experiences that make this pursuit of auditory excellence worth the trouble.


 
 Fabulous! Enjoy the evening.


----------



## rosgr63

GalaxyGuy that's a very nice looking amp congratulations.
 What 45 tubes will you be using?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

rosgr63 said:


> GalaxyGuy that's a very nice looking amp congratulations.
> What 45 tubes will you be using?


 
 They are 2A3 tubes.  For the time being I'm going with Craig's suggestion of Shuguang tubes.  I will likely go with EML mesh once my wallet recovers from the amp purchase.  I may try rolling in JJs as well, but we'll have to see what I can afford.  Buying quads of 2A3 tubes is not for the faint of heart.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

atomicbob said:


> Wow! Looks beautiful. Bet it will sound spectacular. Just got word my customized ZDSE is in burn-in.


 
 Awesome!  When I heard the BA at a meet this summer I just knew I wanted to get Craig to build an amp for me.  The BA + LCD3 was simply breathtaking. We may need to start an EC amp owners unite thread...


----------



## rosgr63

Sorry I thought it was the 45 Craig is planning to release at some point.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

atomicbob said:


> Quite so, easy to be distracted. P&G volume control. I am a big fan of OTL amps since my introduction with a Woo WA3+, of which I will never part. With a GEC A1834 it is very special through HD800 on my ears. Was ready to go WA2 until I heard the ZDSE which is more complimentary to my WA3+. The WA2 would have been an upgrade but in the same sonic signature as the WA3+.


 
  
 +1
  
 btw with HD 800, with GEC and Amperex in the WA2, and Sophia 6SL7 on the ZDSE, i could tell almost no difference in sound to the ZDSE. like i was ab/ing back and forth and i was shocked that they sounded almost identical. 
  
 if you only use hd 800 (not T1), the ZDSE can basically replace a WA2. i did not like other tubes though on ZD, made it too fast sounding.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

rosgr63 said:


> Sorry I thought it was the 45 Craig is planning to release at some point.


 
 No worries.  He is releasing a 4x45 amp soon.  He told me in an email on Saturday that he's already begun work on it.  Not sure if the 2A3 will sound better or worse than the 45.  I know that 45s have a reputation for being very quiet, low distortion tubes.  That said, I trust Craig to be able to produce a quiet amp with 2A3 tubes.  He's had quite a bit of experience on that front and I was looking for just a bit more power, so I went with the 2A3.


----------



## atomicbob

galaxyguy said:


> Awesome!  When I heard the BA at a meet this summer I just knew I wanted to get Craig to build an amp for me.  The BA + LCD3 was simply breathtaking. We may need to start an EC amp owners unite thread...


 
 Thank-you. Indeed, a headphone and headphone amp collectors unite might also be in order. It appears that many Woosies are also collectors of both, as well as tubes. There was a BA + LCD3 at a Seattle meet, but I didn't get to spend as much time with it as I would have liked.


----------



## atomicbob

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> btw with HD 800, with GEC and Amperex in the WA2, and Sophia 6SL7 on the ZDSE, i could tell almost no difference in sound to the ZDSE. like i was ab/ing back and forth and i was shocked that they sounded almost identical.
> 
> if you only use hd 800 (not T1), the ZDSE can basically replace a WA2. i did not like other tubes though on ZD, made it too fast sounding.


 
 That is most excellent to hear. So I can get one flavor of WA2 by using a Sophia 6SL7. Already have been collecting various 6SL7 in anticipation of ZDSE delivery. Also very interested if it will work the OTL magic with my HE-500. We will see.


----------



## atomicbob

For you tube collectors in Woo land, here is a sampling of pictures I took at an extraordinary place, Spark Museum, in Bellingham, WA. Highly recommended if you can visit. I spent hours here. Also enjoyed the Tesla coil demonstration / show. 4 million volts arcing several feet to a steam punk style Faraday cage. For a small donation one can sit and experience up close and personal. I did.
  
 Note the very early tube testor.


----------



## Silent One

Long live the radio vacuum tube!


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks atomicbob
  
 Discarded mini tubes in a box.


----------



## atomicbob

clayton sf said:


> Thanks atomicbob
> 
> Discarded mini tubes in a box.



OMG! Were those working discards? What is the story?


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm looking for that article right now. It was about an old store in New York City, I think, that carried old things. I'm still looking. The store was a mess. Like my closets sometimes.
  
 Like this--eek!


----------



## atomicbob

HS!


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I'm looking for that article right now. It was about an old store in New York City, I think, that carried old things. I'm still looking. The store was a mess. Like my closets sometimes.
> 
> Like this--eek!


 
  





 I thought I saw Ben lurking in the background. Wonder if he's been vaccinated...


----------



## rosgr63

atomicbob said:


> Thank-you. Indeed, a headphone and headphone amp collectors unite might also be in order. It appears that many Woosies are also collectors of both, as well as tubes. There was a BA + LCD3 at a Seattle meet, but I didn't get to spend as much time with it as I would have liked.


 
  
 Was it kingstyles gear?


----------



## atomicbob

rosgr63 said:


> Was it kingstyles gear?


 
 Yes. A very popular listening station along with m2man's ZDSE and TH900.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to the T1/WA22 right now since im gonna sell soon, actually surprised now how good the amp sounds. the detail, clarity and the soundstage is there, its what i want. but the bass and the treble aren't that great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the treble is actually closer to WA6-SE than it is to the WA2 the silkyness isn't there, and the bass is tight and deep, but too light in impact with T1, cause the mids are too forward.
  
 now the imaging, wow, this amp really produces a holographic palpable image, really lifelike in many ways, realistic.


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> listening to the T1/WA22 right now since im gonna sell soon, actually surprised now how good the amp sounds. the detail, clarity and the soundstage is there, its what i want. but the bass and the treble aren't that great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 DSG,  My WA22 is coming next week.  What's your impression of the WA22 driving HE500?


----------



## ardilla

He500 can be great with wa22, but tubes matter. I like some bloom =)


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> listening to the T1/WA22 right now since im gonna sell soon, actually surprised now how good the amp sounds. the detail, clarity and the soundstage is there, its what i want. but the bass and the treble aren't that great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Dubs, selling the amp shouldn't be a problem as it's a highly OEM modded WA22 and anyone looking for that model should (*and I recommend*) snatch it up!  "Hats off" to you for stepping out of the comfort zone and chasing improvement.  I think you found what you where looking for in various sonic categories of the WA22, but also realized/ validated what matters most to YOU!  Thanks for sharing your valued experiences with the forum.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now, find me some inexpensive GEC 6AS7Gs (NOS match and Balanced please) and rejoin the WA 2 club (we miss you!)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

​


ru4music said:


> Dubs, selling the amp shouldn't be a problem as it's a highly OEM modded WA22 and anyone looking for that model should (*and I recommend*) snatch it up!  "Hats off" to you for stepping out of the comfort zone and chasing improvement.  I think you found what you where looking for in various sonic categories of the WA22, but also realized/ validated what matters most to YOU!  Thanks for sharing your valued experiences with the forum.     Now, find me some inexpensive GEC 6AS7Gs (NOS match and Balanced please) and rejoin the WA 2 club (we miss you!)  :wink_face:




Thanks!

Im probably gonna get wa2 back. Though im also working out a potential stratus purchase., either way ill still get wa2 since i need a amp for all my 6as7g. The GEC 6AS7s were VERY good with wa2, a step up from the tung sol 5998, and my 6922s werent even fully upgraded yet

If i rebuy wa2, extra money will go towards a pair of grey siemens cca and a pair of amperex pq whites or if im lucky enough to find a pair, the pinched waist d getter 6922s

Oh and a pair of we421a


----------



## 2359glenn

clayton sf said:


> I'm looking for that article right now. It was about an old store in New York City, I think, that carried old things. I'm still looking. The store was a mess. Like my closets sometimes.
> 
> Like this--eek!


 

 This is it
 http://www.leedsradio.com/
 This is ware I was getting the 596 tubes from when I was selling them with adapters.
 I shouldn't be posting this but Richard is a good guy.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Let's all send him mails asking him for 596 tubes


----------



## 2359glenn

I bought all he had a couple of years ago


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359glenn said:


> I bought all he had a couple of years ago


 
  
 And you made it famous Glenn!
 I do prefer the RK60, I wonder why all those Woo Audio guys don't like that tube. Or maybe they never tried?


----------



## Frank I

ultrainferno said:


> Let's all send him mails asking him for 596 tubes


 
 for a guy who dont like the 596 tube you seem to want more. LOL


----------



## longbowbbs

It would be fun just to spend a day searching through all that stuff!


----------



## Ultrainferno

frank i said:


> for a guy who dont like the 596 tube you seem to want more. LOL


 
  
 I was being Ironic as I am convinced lots of people reading this thread will actually mail the poor guy asking about the 596.
 I'm a RK60 & 5U4G & GZ37 lover


----------



## 2359glenn

ultrainferno said:


> I was being Ironic as I am convinced lots of people reading this thread will actually mail the poor guy asking about the 596.
> I'm a RK60 & 5U4G & GZ37 lover


 

 I am surprised that nobody really wants the RK-60 nobody asked for adapters
 and the RK-60 can be gotten for $8.00. and it looks as nice as the 596


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the tube doesn't seem easy to find. and not many impressions of it.


----------



## longbowbbs

2359glenn said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > I was being Ironic as I am convinced lots of people reading this thread will actually mail the poor guy asking about the 596.
> ...


 
 Can it be a substitute for the 5U4G like the 596?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Exactly!


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrainferno said:


> Exactly!


 
 Wow that is nice, i love how the transformers are covered.


----------



## Clayton SF

x2


----------



## Ultrainferno

2359Glenn 300b RK60 amp fans in the house!


----------



## 2359glenn

longbowbbs said:


> Can it be a substitute for the 5U4G like the 596?


 

 Yes


----------



## Icenine2

ultrainferno said:


> Exactly!


 
 What amp is this?  Way nice!


----------



## pervysage

Does anyone know if WooAudio sends you an email once your order has shipped?
  
 Or do they only send the initial invoice when you place your order?


----------



## Silent One

_The former..._
  
 So, what are we getting?


----------



## koiloco

pervysage said:


> Does anyone know if WooAudio sends you an email once your order has shipped?
> 
> Or do they only send the initial invoice when you place your order?


 

 I placed my order on 10/9 and received an invoice email and a sales order listing the items purchased.
 On 10/16, I received an email letting me know my order has shipped.


----------



## jc9394

Finally gets to listen to WA5LE, I think I like it but not with the stock tubes.


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> Finally gets to listen to WA5LE, I think I like it but not with the stock tubes.


 
 Agree. The stock tubes are not very good.


----------



## Joshhh

Which aftermarket tubes are you using for the HD800s?


----------



## musicman59

joshhh said:


> Which aftermarket tubes are you using for the HD800s?


 
 The combination I like the most is EML 300B Mesh, USF 596 and TunSol 6F8G BG/RP.


----------



## Frank I

musicman59 said:


> The combination I like the most is EML 300B Mesh, USF 596 and TunSol 6F8G BG/RP.


 
 I am using the exact combo now except the EML 300B are solid plates


----------



## jc9394

Same here except Sophia 300B, will get EML soon.


----------



## Joshhh

I'll make sure to pick some of those up. 
 I am planning on placing my order for a WA5-LE this November if everything goes right.


----------



## Clayton SF

pervysage said:


> Does anyone know if WooAudio sends you an email once your order has shipped? Or do they only send the initial invoice when you place your order?


 
 Jack will send you an email prior to shipping:
  
 Thank you for ordering from WOO AUDIO, INC.
 A package will ship to you on 10/10/2013 via FedEx Ground to the following
 address:
  
 YOUR ADDRESS
  
 Shipping item(s):
 WA4 Headphone Amplifier, Color: Silver, AC110V, SN: 1011101
 The shipment tracker number is ***********5628
 If you have any questions please reply to this e-mail.
 We appreciate your business, and look forward to serving you in the future!
 Sincerely,
 WOO AUDIO, INC.


----------



## jc9394

Some WA5LE love...with Sophia 274B, 300B, and TS 6SN7.


----------



## pervysage

silent one said:


> _The former..._
> 
> So, what are we getting?




Thanks for the reply guys... good to know. I ordered the WA7 on October 2nd so I hope it ships soon! 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Silent One

pervysage said:


> Thanks for the reply guys... good to know. I ordered the WA7 on October 2nd so I hope it ships soon!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4


 
  





 15 Days........... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 really? Some of us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have stories to tell. I'm in the two month club and was simply ecstatic when I opened the front door!


----------



## jc9394

6 weeks for maxxed WA6, 8 weeks for WA6SE..


----------



## pervysage

silent one said:


> pervysage said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the reply guys... good to know. I ordered the WA7 on October 2nd so I hope it ships soon!
> ...



Did you guys get estimated shipping times with your invoices?




jc9394 said:


> 6 weeks for maxxed WA6, 8 weeks for WA6SE..




Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Clayton SF

The longest I had to wait for an amp was 12 weeks. Eek!


----------



## jc9394

Almost a year for my beta22...


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *pervysage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> Did you guys get estimated shipping times with your invoices?


 
  
 No.


----------



## Frank I

The Fritz speakers were sent to me from Denver for review


----------



## pervysage

silent one said:


> > Originally Posted by *pervysage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> >
> >
> ...




I had gotten a shipping estimate of Mid-October so that's why I thought it should be soon.

Just got an email back from Jack he said its looking like it will be more towards the end of the month.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## magiccabbage

Can anyone say if the WA5 sounds more like the WA2 or WA22 or is it the best of both worlds? I was hoping that the WA5 would have deeper and more extended bass than the WA2 and sweeter mids than the WA22. Does it trump both amps and then some or is it more lean/mid centric and fast like the Zana Deux?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Can anyone say if the WA5 sounds more like the WA2 or WA22 or is it the best of both worlds? I was hoping that the WA5 would have deeper and more extended bass than the WA2 and sweeter mids than the WA22. Does it trump both amps and then some or is it more lean/mid centric and fast like the Zana Deux?


 
  
 im curious about this too,but i think impressions i've read have put the WA5's bass towards the slightly leaner side of things. i don't think its anythinglike a zana. 
  
  
 love all the WA5 pics!!!


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> im curious about this too,but i think impressions i've read have put the WA5's bass towards the slightly leaner side of things. i don't think its anythinglike a zana.
> 
> 
> love all the WA5 pics!!!


 
 The WA5 is far from lean


----------



## longbowbbs

How could a headphone amp weighing 75 pounds be "Lean"?


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> How could a headphone amp weighing 75 pounds be "Lean"?


 
 haha......... you know that never occurred to me


----------



## GalaxyGuy

clayton sf said:


> The longest I had to wait for an amp was 12 weeks. Eek!


 
 I waited close to 4 months for the WDS-1 (not an amp, obviously).


----------



## Clayton SF

pervysage said:


> Did you guys get estimated shipping times with your invoices?


 
  
 I didn't get an ETA with my invoice, however, I did email Jack and asked him how my amp was coming along and he responded telling me that it would be 2 more weeks or whatever the ETA was on his charts.
  
 Before I placed the order, though, I asked him how long the wait would be.


----------



## magiccabbage

galaxyguy said:


> I waited close to 4 months for the WDS-1 (not an amp, obviously).


 
 What dos the dac sound like?


----------



## ru4music

galaxyguy said:


> I waited close to 4 months for the WDS-1 (not an amp, obviously).


 
  
  


magiccabbage said:


> What dos the dac sound like?


 

 Yes, how do you like the WDS-1?


----------



## koiloco

Dang, I must be very lucky to have my WA22 built in 6 days.  Holy Moly Cow.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

my woos have always gotten made and shipped in a week or less.


----------



## koiloco

hi DSG,
 What mod did you have done to your WA22 ?  Was it done directly by Jack?


----------



## reeltime

joshhh said:


> Which aftermarket tubes are you using for the HD800s?


 
 EML 300B Mesh, EML 5U4G Mesh, Sylvania 6SN7 brown base.  
  
 I have a pair of 596's with adapters, but (to my ears) they took too much base from the HD800.  The EMLs offer more bass punch.  The 596 offered better clarity.  
  
 I also tried the PSVane 181 TII (Treasure 2) for drivers.  Nice tubes, but not remarkable.  It's been 6 months, but every time I put them in, I went back to the Sylvania.  I'd like to try the Sophia 6SN7, it's on my short list.
  
 I would really, REALLY like to try the Takatsuki 300B.  But honestly, I'm pretty thrilled with the sound these days.


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA22, built in 2009, took 6 weeks to build.


----------



## Silent One

The 2010 Midsummer release of my_ Black WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ took 8 weeks. Production was interrupted by an Audio Show, you know the ones that are put on for us...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> The 2010 Midsummer release of my_ Black WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ took 8 weeks. Production was interrupted by an Audio Show, you know the ones that are put on for us...


 
 everything you order seems to get delayed


----------



## shipsupt

You have no idea what it is to wait until you put a deposit down on a BHSE.  The wait is epic.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

I like the WDS-1.  It seemed like a small, incremental improvement over the Gungnir that I was using before it.  The bass is crisper than with the Gungnir and I have found that the WA22 opens up just a bit more with the WDS-1.  I'm not nearly as good as many others here at describing the differences in sound that I hear from one component to another, but I do believe that the WDS-1 is worth the cost.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> everything you order seems to get delayed


 




  
 True. Maybe my silent nature is due to waiting...


----------



## Silent One

shipsupt said:


> You have no idea what it is to wait until you put a deposit down on a BHSE.  The wait is epic.


 
  
 Agreed. I nearly put down a deposit in June, until he returned my phone call and politely suggested 12-14 months. I told him I'd check back with him next year and much success to him.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> hi DSG,
> What mod did you have done to your WA22 ?  Was it done directly by Jack?




Its on for sale thread. And yeah jack did it himself as far as i know. Jc9394 would know more of the amps history.

Mostly blackgates, v caps, and resistor and cable upgrades


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Its on for sale thread. And yeah jack did it himself as far as i know. Jc9394 would know more of the amps history.
> 
> Mostly blackgates, v caps, and resistor and cable upgrades


 
  
 Actually it was modded by Dannie01, he did a great job with it.  When I purchase it from Dannie01, I shipped to Jack to have a checkup and he offered to rewire and hot glued the caps to his standard.


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of 'dannie01'... good morning to you overseas! For those who may not know, he is the Thread Starter.


----------



## spagetka

I have tried 5U4G (Russian, EML mesh), GZ34 and 5R4GY. Like them all. After I bought RSA Duke I prefer 5R4GY.


----------



## Silent One

Still enjoying your Woo (WA5)?


----------



## Silent One

Uh-oh! The sun is rising... time to get in the bed. My overnight session was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




right nice. This morning's dream will be about audio. And more specifically if I should attempt to put the band back together.
  
 Last night, I found myself really missing my Zeus Eclipse 6 Balanced drive Denon D7000 - 4x22AWG.
  

  
 Which I bought just for the Woo... and I'm missing that too! One of our fellow members has a WA22 up for sale. Hmmm, the thought of past glory is tickling me. But then the WA5 monos would get kicked to the curb for the third time in eight months!
  
 On the flip-side, reuniting the Woo with the Denon could happen so much quicker. On a side note, I had no idea _Greed_ could type. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, let me see what kind of thoughts emerge in my sleep this morning.
  
 And no remote 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hypnosis, DG!
  
  
 Update.:  First and foremost, I need to get a quote from Jack Wu - on Black cladding.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Uh-oh! The sun is rising... time to get in the bed. My overnight session was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## musicman59

magiccabbage said:


> Can anyone say if the WA5 sounds more like the WA2 or WA22 or is it the best of both worlds? I was hoping that the WA5 would have deeper and more extended bass than the WA2 and sweeter mids than the WA22. Does it trump both amps and then some or is it more lean/mid centric and fast like the Zana Deux?


 
 I have never listened to the WA2 but I compared the WA5-LE to the WA22 when I was deciding what to buy and IMO the WA5-LE kills the WA22 in every aspect based on my taste of sound.
 I have listened to the ZD once at a friend's house. He likes his sound very mellow/romantic/syrupy and I don't know if it was the combination of tubes in his ZD but that's the way it sounded and to my taste it was too dark and laid back. The WA5-LE to me is faster but that does not mean leaner. It actually has great bass IMO even with headphones other classify as lean like the HD800 (which I do not agree at least with my recabled with OCC copper Zeus).


----------



## musicman59

frank i said:


> The WA5 is far from lean


 
 I agree Frank. IMO it has great fast, controlled and beep bass.


----------



## dminches

musicman59 said:


> I have never listened to the WA2 but I compared the WA5-LE to the WA22 when I was deciding what to buy and IMO the WA5-LE kills the WA22 in every aspect based on my taste of sound.
> I have listened to the ZD once at a friend's house. He likes his sound very mellow/romantic/syrupy and I don't know if it was the combination of tubes in his ZD but that's the way it sounded and to my taste it was too dark and laid back. The WA5-LE to me is faster but that does not mean leaner. It actually has great bass IMO even with headphones other classify as lean like the HD800 (which I do not agree at least with my recabled with OCC copper Zeus).


 
  
 Thanks for the comparisons.  Any comparisons to other amps like the Leben or Liquid Fire or Eddie Current?


----------



## musicman59

reeltime said:


> EML 300B Mesh, EML 5U4G Mesh, Sylvania 6SN7 brown base.
> 
> I have a pair of 596's with adapters, but (to my ears) they took too much base from the HD800.  The EMLs offer more bass punch.  The 596 offered better clarity.
> 
> ...


 
 That is a great combination too. I have a pair of the Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top and they are great too.
 Yes, I am intrigued by the Takatuki too but they are "mucho dinero" to just experiment with them. I have not been able to find a lot of information or reviews on them either.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

musicman59 said:


> I have never listened to the WA2 but I compared the WA5-LE to the WA22 when I was deciding what to buy and IMO the WA5-LE kills the WA22 in every aspect based on my taste of sound.
> I have listened to the ZD once at a friend's house. He likes his sound very mellow/romantic/syrupy and I don't know if it was the combination of tubes in his ZD but that's the way it sounded and to my taste it was too dark and laid back. The WA5-LE to me is faster but that does not mean leaner. It actually has great bass IMO even with headphones other classify as lean like the HD800 (which I do not agree at least with my recabled with OCC copper Zeus).


 
 hows the bass differ?
  
 i found the ZD to be the complete opposite of what u said. the ZD was fast, very very fast, and very Ss sounding, but not quite SS, it had an ethereal quality to it of sorts, and a bit of bite as well, but not like SS ,its was completely different. just very very fast and kinda bright but not harsh or grainy or SS like, just fast. thats the way i'd describe it.


----------



## musicman59

Too my my WA5-LE was faster and with tighter bass than the ZD I heard but again. It could very well be the tubes used in the ZD since I know my friend's taste in sound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

musicman59 said:


> Too my my WA5-LE was faster and with tighter bass than the ZD I heard but again. It could very well be the tubes used in the ZD since I know my friend's taste in sound.


 
  
 probably. im sure it responds quite well with tube rolling.
  
 with that sophia tube, it was about the same sound signature as the WA2 with the GEC tubes. warmer yet neutral.
  
 but i wouldn't ever describe that as being romantic or thick or syrupy.


----------



## GloryUprising

silent one said:


> Agreed. I nearly put down a deposit in June, until he returned my phone call and politely suggested 12-14 months. I told him I'd check back with him next year and much success to him.


 
 Yea. It's a pretty decent lag time because it's all made by hand and parts are ordered as needed. On the plus side, it keeps resale values up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm on month 6 for the GSX-MkII


----------



## jc9394

My TS 6SN7 BGRP does not looked the same but the internal is exactly the same.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i love how the amp looks in that pic
  
 now u need double mighty 596's and double EML 300bs


----------



## jc9394

596 is on queue next, want to get a good understanding of sound signature first.  The sound stage is not as big as the WA22 but close, slight less depth.


----------



## jc9394

Listening to Patricia Barber's Company...it is just as I remembered when I had my friend's WA5.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> My TS 6SN7 BGRP does not looked the same but the internal is exactly the same.


 





 Beautifully shot!


----------



## Silent One

gloryuprising said:


> Yea. It's a pretty decent lag time because it's all made by hand and parts are ordered as needed. On the plus side, it keeps resale values up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Isn't he in Virginia? He returned my call one morning... at 0030 hours PST! Said he was just wrapping up work on an amp and was going to bed. Further, he engaged me in friendly chat for another 20 minutes.




  
 This cat is driven, enthusiastic, dedicated and friendly. The audio community benefits from participants like him.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

So my "mighty" 596 tube has crapped out after very few hours of usage.  I'm pretty disappointed.  This morning when I turned on the 22 I was getting static in the right channel.  Switched the power tubes, nothing.  Switched the drivers, nothing.  Changed the rectifier and, voila! problem solved.  It can't have had more than 300 hours on it since I bought it from Jack.  I'm quite upset.


----------



## Silent One

Sorry to hear about your audio adventure (mishap?). Jack may have one or two left, please check... and quickly!


----------



## jc9394

I will be dropping in the mighty tonight to replace miss Sophia.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm a 5U4GB and RK60 guy now.
 Well at least for the rest of this year.


----------



## ardilla

musicman59 said:


> I agree Frank. IMO it has great fast, controlled and *beep *bass.


 
  
 Can you elaborate "beep" bass? Is it beepy, like opposed to beppy? I do not like beppy bass. Beep bass is great


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I'm a 5U4GB and RK60 guy now.
> Well at least for the rest of this year.




I do prefer EML 5U4G but it is not ordered yet...I need to get a better 300B than Sophia first.


----------



## Silent One

I thought the EML Glass inside my Woo was brilliant! But it suffered from questionable reliability and less than desirable pricing.


----------



## spagetka

silent one said:


> Still enjoying your Woo (WA5)?


 
 Oh yes! Running via French Totaldac D1 even much more than before.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *spagetka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Oh yes! Running via French Totaldac D1 even much more than before.


 
  
 You've got taste!


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I thought the EML Glass inside my Woo was brilliant! But it suffered from questionable reliability and less than desirable pricing.




Knock in wood, all the EML I purchased still alive. Unfortunately I have to sold all of them to get a matched pair in the future.


----------



## shipsupt

Warmer yet neutral?


----------



## GloryUprising

silent one said:


> Isn't he in Virginia? He returned my call one morning... at 0030 hours PST! Said he was just wrapping up work on an amp and was going to bed. Further, he engaged me in friendly chat for another 20 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea, he's like an hour away from me and is a late owl like me so sometimes it's easiest to catch him in the odd post 12pm est hours.


----------



## Silent One

Colour me impressed by his work ethic!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

silent one said:


> I thought the EML Glass inside my Woo was brilliant! But it suffered from questionable reliability and less than desirable pricing.


 
 I really am hoping that the reliability is not as bad as all that.  I've used my EML 5U4G far more than the 596 that recently died and I've had no issues whatsoever with the EML glass.  And I put in an order for a quad of EML2A3's for my upcoming EC amp.  God help me if they die fast.  I agree with you wholeheartedly on the pricing, though.


----------



## Silent One

galaxyguy said:


> I really am hoping that the reliability is not as bad as all that.  I've used my EML 5U4G far more than the 596 that recently died and I've had no issues whatsoever with the EML glass.  And I put in an order for a quad of EML2A3's for my upcoming EC amp.  God help me if they die fast.  I agree with you wholeheartedly on the pricing, though.


 
  
 I first learned about production issues and early tube failures with the EML 5U4G back in 2010. The plant shut down and re-tooled and a couple of minor revisions made with making the tube. 
  
 This thread saw the early demise of the EML recs in the thread starter's WA5. If memory serves, the EML had difficulty handling the amount of in-rush current the big Woo was throwing at it during start-up.
  
 2359glenn researched and found a more robust rectifier for dannie01 to do the job in the WA5. A legend was born...


----------



## GalaxyGuy

silent one said:


> I first learned about production issues and early tube failures with the EML 5U4G back in 2010. The plant shut down and re-tooled and a couple of minor revisions made with making the tube.
> 
> This thread saw the early demise of the EML recs in the thread starter's WA5. If memory serves, the EML had difficulty handling the amount of in-rush current the big Woo was throwing at it during start-up.
> 
> 2359glenn researched and found a more robust rectifier for dannie01 to do the job in the WA5. A legend was born...


 
 Well, I refute the robustness of the rectifier he has identified.
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 That said, I do think that there are cheaper options available, but I'm hoping that the production issues have been dealt with.


----------



## Silent One

Well, you do know how young these tubes are...


----------



## GloryUprising

The 596 just doesn't photograph as well as Ms Sophia.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

gloryuprising said:


> The 596 just doesn't photograph as well as Ms Sophia.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: (Pics)
> ...


 
 Yup, last one's very nice indeed. But the first one has a very nice color contrast going, so it's very nice too, in its own way. How long was the exposure? (on either)


----------



## GloryUprising

thegrumpyoldman said:


> Yup, last one's very nice indeed. But the first one has a very nice color contrast going, so it's very nice too, in its own way. How long was the exposure? (on either)


 
  
 Here's the Noob 'photographer' answer: everything was set on Auto+. If I'm reading this correctly the first picture was 1" so one second @ f2.8 using my ghetto 30mm macro (yea, I'm _that_ photographer who thinks everything is 'artistic' in macro). As for the last one I think I did manual exposure so ISO was set at 100 and shutter speed is listed as 5" so 5 seconds?
  
 Does that make sense?


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I'm a 5U4GB and RK60 guy now.
> Well at least for the rest of this year.


 
  
 +1!
  
 Until we find a new tube, right?


----------



## longbowbbs

Somehow we are going to find one last cache of 596's and we'll all have a nice supply forever....Time to start touring old military bases....


----------



## MahthovenWang

WA2 and WA6SE...
  
 I would like to know which of the two is more neutral sounding with good clarity and big soundstage that sound good with classical and vocals. I know both are very good amps but their identical price made the job quite hard for me. So I want to know which is more towards the "neutral" side and which is more towards the "tubey warm" side. Thanks in advance


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mahthovenwang said:


> WA2 and WA6SE...
> 
> I would like to know which of the two is more neutral sounding with good clarity and big soundstage that sound good with classical and vocals. I know both are very good amps but their identical price made the job quite hard for me. So I want to know which is more towards the "neutral" side and which is more towards the "tubey warm" side. Thanks in advance


 
  
 WA6-SE is more neutral and dynamic and balanced. bigger soundstage too, depending on the tubes you roll, you can get a more lush presentation, but this is a more solid-state/neutral amp, though with tube characteristics. i prefer this amp for low impedance headphones like akg, grado, denon as well as harder to drive planars like LCD-2/3 and HE-500/5LE
  
 the WA2 is more tubey and warm, but not colored and thick, but silky smooth and laid back and still having great highs and a well rounded coherency to it. i personally prefer the WA2 when used with high impedance headphones like hd 800 and t1.


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> Somehow we are going to find one last cache of 596's and we'll all have a nice supply forever....Time to start touring old military bases....


 
  
 Don't forget your friends when you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

rosgr63 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Somehow we are going to find one last cache of 596's and we'll all have a nice supply forever....Time to start touring old military bases....
> ...


 
 On the hunt...


----------



## MahthovenWang

dubstep girl said:


> WA6-SE is more neutral and dynamic and balanced. bigger soundstage too, depending on the tubes you roll, you can get a more lush presentation, but this is a more solid-state/neutral amp, though with tube characteristics. i prefer this amp for low impedance headphones like akg, grado, denon as well as harder to drive planars like LCD-2/3 and HE-500/5LE
> 
> the WA2 is more tubey and warm, but not colored and thick, but silky smooth and laid back and still having great highs and a well rounded coherency to it. i personally prefer the WA2 when used with high impedance headphones like hd 800 and t1.


 
 Thank you very much for your input 
  
 Judging from that, I think I might like the W6SE better. I don't really like the "laid back" sound characteristics after I heard the LCD2, and I like more of an "in-your-face" type of sound.
  
 But the WA2 seems to be much more compact than the WA6SE...


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> rosgr63 said:
> 
> 
> > longbowbbs said:
> ...


 
  
 For me, finding this A_rt of Glass _ranks second in terms of difficulty with price coming in on top. Previously, I located a couple of thousand through a military surplus broker.
  





 I balked, however, at being put over a barrel... 




  





 But like you, I never give up! My current strategy involves... (Confidential - Restricted to Private Messaging)


----------



## rosgr63

longbowbbs said:


> On the hunt...


 
  
  
 Good Luck!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jc9394

The _mighty __596_ is in, it is much better than Sophia 274B mesh.   Compare to 596, Miss Sophia is like a old lady, everything is slower.


----------



## jc9394

Next on queue, RCA 5U4G and Brimar CV1988.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

very nice!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just put in GZ34 in WA22, since i'm listening the last few days before its gone. 
  
 sounds really good, theres some coolness to the sound of the GZ34, a sort of smooth clear dynamic kinda sound. 
  
 but yeah back to the sound, i like it, just wish it had more bass. the soundstage is still huge! sounds much better than the black base GZ34 from memory, the black base has grain/slight harshness in the highs that the metal base doesn't have. 
  
 putting black base in WA22 to compare right now, maybe i won't notice a difference, maybe i will.
  
 EDIT: yeah the black base seems less smooth, its a little grainier, small but noticeable. narrower soundstage, less 3d sounding, bass is slightly different, more of it, but slightly bloated and not as tight. i think its more aggressive but the dynamics aren't as great, more compressed sounding?


----------



## jc9394

Ok DG, scratched my plan for black base GZ34 pair. More saving need for metal base...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i personally am not too big on the black base. i thought it was decent, but rarely used it after i got it.  but the metal base is alot better! its more musical.
  
 this is one of the reason i wouldn't get a WA5, double 596s, double emls, double metal base gz34s, etc.....
  
 as of now, i'm working on buying that used stratus that was an IC, waiting for a response with a final price, though i am looking for a 5U4G amp that supports all variants, similar to the woo amps.


----------



## shipsupt

What do you mean by "musical"?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

shipsupt said:


> What do you mean by "musical"?


 
  
 its smoother and better PRaT. seems to be more flowing.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> The _mighty __596_ is in, it is much better than Sophia 274B mesh.   Compare to 596, Miss Sophia is like a old lady, everything is slower.


 
 Yep....The Mighty 596!


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> just put in GZ34 in WA22, since i'm listening the last few days before its gone.
> 
> sounds really good, theres some coolness to the sound of the GZ34, a sort of smooth clear dynamic kinda sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 When I need more bass on the WA22 I usually switch headphones. My favorite headphones for bass are the Denon D-7000. Less bass but a bit more clarity and dynamics is my Beyer DT990 600 ohms.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> When I need more bass on the WA22 I usually switch headphones. My favorite headphones for bass are the Denon D-7000. Less bass but a bit more clarity and dynamics is my Beyer DT990 600 ohms.


 
 my T1's with WA2 had enough bass for just about anything i'd listen to. 
  
 now they sound more Hd 800 ish, more clarity and a huge soundstage more magic mids, but not as strong bass


----------



## shipsupt

dubstep girl said:


> its smoother and better PRaT. seems to be more flowing.


 
  
 Ah, smoother is more "musical".
  
 Are the attacks a bit rounded, or are transients slow, less precise?  Both?  
  
 Interesting to see smoothness and PRaT improve together.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

shipsupt said:


> Ah, smoother is more "musical".
> 
> Are the attacks a bit rounded, or are transients slow, less precise?  Both?
> 
> Interesting to see smoothness and PRaT improve together.


 
 fast and precise, yet no compressed or strained sound to it. its fast yet clean and natural sounding, the dynamics are effortless. i would say theres some slight roundness to it, just enough to let u know its a tube and not an SS, thats that flowing nature i was talking about.
  
 its pretty different compared to the black base, the black base is pretty good too, just doesn't do it as well. i can see why jc9394 really likes the metal base.


----------



## jc9394

Yep, since I pickup the metal base GZ34, all my black base went to chopping block.


----------



## jc9394

The only thing I don't like the GZ34 is the WA22 run much hotter than the other rectifiers.


----------



## dminches

What changed your mind about the metal base? At one point you didn't think it sounded much different than the black base.


----------



## jc9394

Me? Once I compare it side by side I prefer the metal base much better. If I listen to black base today and metal base in few days, I will tell you the difference is not much, very subtle improvements.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Me? Once I compare it side by side I prefer the metal base much better. If I listen to black base today and metal base in few days, I will tell you the difference is not much, very subtle improvements.


 
  
 +1


----------



## 2359glenn

Try the GZ37 has a lower voltage drop then the GZ34


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Try the GZ37 has a lower voltage drop then the GZ34




Tried that but much prefer GZ34...


----------



## jc9394

I think I'm going to keep using Sophia 300B until the WE reissue is back in stock.

http://www.tubedepot.com/we-300b.html

Anyone tried the a Treasure version?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I think I'm going to keep using Sophia 300B until the WE reissue is back in stock.
> 
> http://www.tubedepot.com/we-300b.html
> 
> Anyone tried the a Treasure version?


 
  
 i plan on buying 300b reissues when they come out as well, just to save up for when if i do decide to get a WA5 or other 300b amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

more listening to WA22 today. i do wish it had more bass, but i noticed how non-fatiguing it is with the HD 800 and T1, its quite nice.


----------



## dminches

Maybe you just need to pair it with a different headphone. I love my T1s but they never give me enough bass. If I want bass I go to the LCD-3'or even the ATH 3000ANVs.


----------



## magiccabbage

dminches said:


> Maybe you just need to pair it with a different headphone. I love my T1s but they never give me enough bass. If I want bass I go to the LCD-3'or even the ATH 3000ANVs.


 
 She does not need another headphone. She has everything - LOL


----------



## jc9394

Maybe I'm not a basshead or my DAC has more bass? Therd are plenty quality bass with my HD800.


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> She does not need another headphone. She has everything - LOL


 

 But has she tried every headphone that she owns?


----------



## dminches

That was my point!


----------



## 2359glenn

The HD-800s need a high quality OTL to sound there best.


----------



## dminches

As do the T1s. Thanks Glenn!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes with the WA2, i never found the T1 or hd 800 to lack the bass i want. especially since i still prefer T1 bass to anything else. only headphones that come close are HE-6 and LCD-2 (yeah the 3 has nice bass, but theres less of it and its less punchy)


----------



## 2359glenn

David I was going to send you a PM
 Will ship the adapter tomorrow one thing Don't use the RK-60 if you have 6336
 output tubes in the amp To much current for it.


----------



## Clayton SF

dminches said:


> That was my point!


 

 Sorry I missed it. It's too early and I haven't had my apple pie yet.


----------



## jc9394

Hmm, I should get the OTL for now??? 

Glenn, what are the tube options with your OTL? I was to use a pair of GEC 6AS7G for the very least.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Hmm, I should get the OTL for now???
> 
> Glenn, what are the tube options with your OTL? I was to use a pair of GEC 6AS7G for the very least.


 
  
 thinking of the glenn otl too.
  
 except he said it wouldn't work with 274b/5u4g and not the sophia/eml tubes.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Hmm, I should get the OTL for now???
> 
> Glenn, what are the tube options with your OTL? I was to use a pair of GEC 6AS7G for the very least.


 

 It is a great sounding amp for $600.00 if you want the old version in the smaller chassis like SO and Clayton have
 I will sell it for $500
 It will take all 6AS7s plus the powerful 6336s that most amps can't handle.
 You can ask David or Clayton how it sounds with various headphones.


----------



## dminches

2359glenn said:


> David I was going to send you a PM
> Will ship the adapter tomorrow one thing Don't use the RK-60 if you have 6336
> output tubes in the amp To much current for it.




Glenn, I am going to use a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs. 

DG, I prefer the LCD-3s bass to the 2s. Guess it is all about synergy with other components.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> thinking of the glenn otl too.
> 
> except he said it wouldn't work with 274b/5u4g and not the sophia/eml tubes.


 

 But it will work with all the other tubes you mentioned it might work with the EML
 Just don't try it if you change the 6AS7s to 6336s they will go way over current for it.
 Forget about the Sophia though.


----------



## jc9394

What are the tubes combo and does it comes with stock tubes? Mainly 6336 since I don't have any.


----------



## dminches

I have extra 6336s if you need them. They are not that expensive.


----------



## jc9394

Sweet, thanks I will PM you once I confirmed the purchase with Glenn.


----------



## 2359glenn

I do not supply the 6SN7 or 6AS7s as most people I sold them to already had them from owning a
 WA22 or something that uses these tubes.
 I do through in a couple of 3DG4s rectifier tubes though.


----------



## jc9394

Nice, I do have 6SN7 and 6AS7. 3DG4 and 6336 those I don't have. What is the difference between the new and old chassis build?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

jc9394 said:


> Maybe I'm not a basshead or my DAC has more bass? Therd are plenty quality bass with my HD800.


 
 +1


----------



## ardilla

dminches said:


> Maybe you just need to pair it with a different headphone. I love my T1s but they never give me enough bass. If I want bass I go to the LCD-3'or even the ATH 3000ANVs.




I think LCD3 is great with wa22. wa22 gives that upper midrange the extra magic push..


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> Nice, I do have 6SN7 and 6AS7. 3DG4 and 6336 those I don't have. What is the difference between the new and old chassis build?


 
  
  
  
  
 old chassis
  

  
 New larger chassis
  

  
 Actually that is Davids amp
  
 If you want the old chassis I can start building now
 If you want this larger chassis they are on order and will be a week or two
 and then you have to waite till I build a  couple of amps for people that are waiting..


----------



## jc9394

I like the new chassis better, please put me in queue. Looks like one 3DG4, one 6SN7, and a pair of 6AS7G/6336? Can I use 5998 and 7236 too?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Wrong thread guys


----------



## jc9394

Sorry, I will bring it back to the correct thread.


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Wrong thread guys


 

 We keep playing table tennis between our two favorite threads. We know who we be.


----------



## Ultrainferno

My 2 fav threads and I don't even have a Woo anymore


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> I like the new chassis better, please put me in queue. Looks like one 3DG4, one 6SN7, and a pair of 6AS7G/6336? Can I use 5998 and 7236 too?


 

 Yes it will take these I didn't like the 7236 though


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> My 2 fav threads and I don't even have a Woo anymore


 

 Hey, do you want to borrow another one?


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > My 2 fav threads and I don't even have a Woo anymore
> ...


 
 Come on down to Clayton's house of "Used Woo" !


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> Hey, do you want to borrow another one?


 
  
 Do I ever say no? Oh wait, I said no today to an Ultrasone Edition 9
 That's your call C, you know the deal


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Hey, do you want to borrow another one?


 
 You should lay all your amps out and try get them all in one shot - would be a real threat.


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> You should lay all your amps out and try get them all in one shot - would be a real threat.


 
 I actually would loan all of my amps out to Ultra-. The problem really is shipping costs to and from. That can cost from $100-$400 depending on the weight of the amps I own. The lightest being about 2kg/4.5lbs to the heaviest which is about 30kg/65lbs.


----------



## Ultrainferno

clayton sf said:


> I actually would loan all of my amps out to Ultra-. The problem really is shipping costs to and from. That can cost from $100-$400 depending on the weight of the amps I own. The lightest being about 2kg/4.5lbs to the heaviest which is about 30kg/65lbs.


 
  
 Next lifetime we'll be living in the same building C. no excuse. Could you image the amp build up between the both of us and the number of headphones? Poor power grid


----------



## Dubstep Girl

new case and all 5u4g and 5ar4s gz37, etc. except the sophia....considering it now. it will work ok on NOS 5U4G then right?
  
 for u ppl that own them, how do they compare to something like a WA22?


----------



## Silent One

ultrainferno said:


> My 2 fav threads and I don't even have a Woo anymore


 
 + 1


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> new case and all 5u4g and 5ar4s gz37, etc. except the sophia....considering it now. it will work ok on NOS 5U4G then right?
> 
> for u ppl that own them, how do they compare to something like a WA22?


 

 +1
  
 And the WA2 (please include HeadPhone type for your opinion.)


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> new case and all 5u4g and 5ar4s gz37, etc. except the sophia....considering it now. it will work ok on NOS 5U4G then right?
> 
> for u ppl that own them, how do they compare to something like a WA22?


 
 Question for Glenn:
  
 Dubs, from the WA 22 you may have been questioning the 6SN7 type tube (sonically), so Glenn I will ask a question for DG.
  
 It appears you are using a single 6SN7 tube,  how does your configuration compare to using dual 6SN7s in SRRP mode.  It seems to me (and others) that the SRRP mode helps stimulate that  "magic" character in the output tube (e.g. 45, 2A3, 300B?)
  
 DG, you seem to like the accuracy/ refinement of the 6DJ8 driver variety, so I hope I'm not out of line for asking this question, as I am as well interested in Glenn's amps.


----------



## ru4music

jc9394 said:


> I think I'm going to keep using Sophia 300B until the WE reissue is back in stock.
> 
> http://www.tubedepot.com/we-300b.html
> 
> Anyone tried the a Treasure version?


 
 JC, I believe this will change the face of tubular thought; 300B amps will become the pinnacle of design.  I actually can't wait as I have been anticipating (in the wings) for this reissue.  So many proven  designs...


----------



## ardilla

Seems like Glenn is the new Woo around here. Interesting discussions, though, like it =)


----------



## longbowbbs

It is always fun when MoT participate. I love the knowledge.


----------



## ardilla

longbowbbs said:


> It is always fun when MoT participate. I love the knowledge.




Definetly. We need the knowledge, otherwise we just would be talking subjective nonsens all the time. 

And especially nice to follow the way Glenn responds to specific requests on tube design etc. Keep it up!


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> Question for Glenn:
> 
> Dubs, from the WA 22 you may have been questioning the 6SN7 type tube (sonically), so Glenn I will ask a question for DG.
> 
> ...


 

 I do not use a 6SN7 in 300B amps they really can't drive the miller capacitance of a 300B properly.
 I use the C3g as the driver.
 I do use a single 6SN7 to drive 6AS7s in the OTL though the 6AS7 is easy to drive
 I think DG is hearing the output transformers in the 22 not the 6SN7


----------



## jc9394

She will be hearing the 6SN7 output soon...


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> She will be hearing the 6SN7 output soon...


 
 LOL


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> She will be hearing the 6SN7 output soon...


 

 Does she know what you are doing?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yes!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> I do not use a 6SN7 in 300B amps they really can't drive the miller capacitance of a 300B properly.
> I use the C3g as the driver.
> I do use a single 6SN7 to drive 6AS7s in the OTL though the 6AS7 is easy to drive
> I think DG is hearing the output transformers in the 22 not the 6SN7




I feel that way with the other tubes in the wa22 as well. It feels like im not getting the most out of my 6as7 with the wa22 whereas the sound of the wa2 was changed alot more with both the 6dj8 and the 6as7 tubes, likewise, i felt i got more out of my rectifiers with my wa6-se. The wa22 seems to have a sound of its own and the tubes just kinda improve upon it


----------



## 2359glenn

I will get to work on the amp after work
 Have to bring in the GFs plants first  had a frost this morning maybe to late.


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Does she know what you are doing?


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> Yes!


 
  
  
 Hope you are keeping some 6SN7/6F8G tubes.  Most important, please let me know how the metal base GZ34 and a comparison 3DG4.  Only 3DG4 is supplied with the amp...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Hope you are keeping some 6SN7/6F8G tubes.  Most important, please let me know how the metal base GZ34 and a comparison 3DG4.  Only 3DG4 is supplied with the amp...




Yeah that fs thread hasnt been replied to yet. Ill try and keep the grey glass rca since those were pretty good, also maybe sylvania 6f8g if they dont work. 

Whats nice is the glenn amp seems to only use 1 tube, which is nice cause theyre easier to find and cheaper than pairs.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Yeah that fs thread hasnt been replied to yet. Ill try and keep the grey glass rca since those were pretty good, also maybe sylvania 6f8g if they dont work.
> 
> Whats nice is the glenn amp seems to only use 1 tube, which is nice cause theyre easier to find and cheaper than pairs.


 
  
 Yeah, my plan is going to use 6F8G tubes with Glenn's amp because when using on WA5LE, the 6F8G and 300B are almost touching each other.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

3DG4 is a great rectifier to use and still cheap as chips  / built like a tank. Look out for any amp that uses them, most are done by DIYers.


----------



## koiloco

I am waiting patiently for my WA22... 1 more day till Wed.  
 I do hope this venture will be less rocky than the one with my taboo recently.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

koiloco said:


> I am waiting patiently for my WA22... 1 more day till Wed.
> I do hope this venture will be less rocky than the one with my taboo recently.


 
 What happened with the Decware amp?  Sounds ominous.


----------



## Jd007

galaxyguy said:


> What happened with the Decware amp?  Sounds ominous.


 
 i'll save koiloco some time and link to his comments in the taboo thread instead: http://www.head-fi.org/t/655788/the-decware-taboo-mk-111-appreciation-thread/1545#post_9869272
  
 @koiloco: sorry to hear about your issues with the taboo. woo audio has great QC as far as i know so i dont think issues like that will happen. i hope you will enjoy your new wa22!


----------



## koiloco

Thx jd007!  It must be just my luck.  I really liked the sound I was getting on my HE500 with the taboo.  Decware's customer service and communication were first rate.  Very nice people indeed.  When life slows down a bit, I will absolutely venture back into Decware's magic again.  It will be for speakers though, not HPs.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Thanks for the link.  I'm sorry about your past problems.  I can tell you that the WA22 is an amazing amp.  I simply love mine.


----------



## CH23

Hello Woo Audio amp owners 

I'm currently in the process of creating a great home listening system, and now i have a question:

is the woo audio WA2 a pre-amp & headphone amp combo, or do i need a 2nd amp?

to clarify, this is my possible setup:

turntable-->WA2-->headphone amp-->headphones
turntable-->pre-amp-->WA2-->headphones
or can it just be
turntable-->WA2-->headphones


----------



## magiccabbage

ch23 said:


> Hello Woo Audio amp owners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 the last - turntable -WA2- headphones, it also works as a pre amp for speakers if you couple it with a power amp. I tried it with an integrated amp and it was not as nice as with a power amp.


----------



## jc9394

you will need a phono stage/preamp


----------



## CH23

magiccabbage said:


> the last - turntable -WA2- headphones, it also works as a pre amp for speakers if you couple it with a power amp. I tried it with an integrated amp and it was not as nice as with a power amp.



personally, i dislike speakers, but that mostly has to do with asymmetrical spaces.



jc9394 said:


> you will need a phono stage/preamp




Getting mixed messages here...


----------



## jc9394

ch23 said:


> personally, i dislike speakers, but that mostly has to do with asymmetrical spaces.
> Getting mixed messages here...


 
  
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/21PCGJR9SBLQP
  
  
 Here are the budget one...the Cambridge-Audio-Azur-551P is pretty good for my entry turntable.  
  
http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Budget-Phono-Preamps
  
http://www.needledoctor.com/Cambridge-Audio-Azur-551P-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35249


----------



## CH23

jc9394 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/21PCGJR9SBLQP
> 
> 
> Here are the budget one...the [COLOR=FF4400]Cambridge-Audio-Azur-551P[/COLOR] is pretty good for my entry turntable.
> ...




You don't seem to understand what i'm asking:

I asked if the WA2 is both an amp AND pre-amp, or if it's either one or the other .


----------



## jc9394

ch23 said:


> You don't seem to understand what i'm asking:
> 
> I asked if the WA2 is both an amp AND pre-amp, or if it's either one or the other .


 
  
 WA2 is both preamp and a *headphone only *amp, if you are going to connect a turntable to WA2 you *will *need a phono stage/preamp.
  
 Your question is
  
 turntable-->WA2-->headphone amp-->headphones
*turntable-->pre-amp-->WA2-->headphones  (the preamp you mentioned is needed)*
 or can it just be
 turntable-->WA2-->headphones


----------



## CH23

jc9394 said:


> WA2 is both preamp and a *headphone only *amp, if you are going to connect a turntable to WA2 you *will* need a phono stage/preamp.
> 
> Your question is
> 
> ...




back to square one then.

i'll look further for a good amp fitting my Grado PS1000 

Thank you for your help.

-CH23


----------



## jc9394

unless you are going to use a vintage receiver, most newer (if not all) headphone amp needs a phono stage.


----------



## CH23

jc9394 said:


> unless you are going to use a vintage receiver, most newer (if not all) headphone amp needs a phono stage.




Yes i realise this, that's why i had my hopes up on the WA2. I might still go for this amp, but now i'll have to find a good phono pre-amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

This setup worked really well for me:
    turntable-->phono pre-amp-->WA2-->headphones
  
 Have fun!


----------



## jc9394

unless you have one of the mid-high end turntable, I would not recommend to get one more than $500.  I have the Rega P3 and I tried few there is not enough different from the one I linked.  Once you start changing stylus and tonearm and external power, you can go higher end model phono preamp.


----------



## CH23

jc9394 said:


> unless you have one of the mid-high end turntable, I would not recommend to get one more than $500.  I have the Rega P3 and I tried few there is not enough different from the one I linked.  Once you start changing stylus and tonearm and external power, you can go higher end model phono preamp.


 
 my turntable is the SL-7, my cartridge will be one of the Grado ones (i'm thinking red), any my headphone the Grado PS1000


----------



## jc9394

Technics SL-7?


----------



## CH23

jc9394 said:


> Technics SL-7?


 

 yes


----------



## magiccabbage

Yea sorry, I forgot about the pre amp. I sold my turntable and my records. Dunno how that slipped my mind.


----------



## jc9394

ch23 said:


> yes


 
  
  
 this should be good. 
  
http://www.needledoctor.com/Cambridge-Audio-Azur-551P-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35249


----------



## CH23

jc9394 said:


> this should be good.
> 
> http://www.needledoctor.com/Cambridge-Audio-Azur-551P-Phono-Preamp?sc=2&category=35249


 
  
 seeing Cambridge Audio makes me smile. they advertised with Tubular Bells, one of my fav albums, a few years ago...
 great price and good looking as well! thanks!
  


magiccabbage said:


> Yea sorry, I forgot about the pre amp. I sold my turntable and my records. Dunno how that slipped my mind.


 

 that's okay.
 i don't want to go off topic too much, but why'd you sell?


----------



## magiccabbage

ch23 said:


> seeing Cambridge Audio makes me smile. they advertised with Tubular Bells, one of my fav albums, a few years ago...
> great price and good looking as well! thanks!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My turntable wasn't great and if i was gonna go down the vinyl route i would want 180 gram and a really good cartridge and other stuff too. I might come back to vynyl later but for now i will work on building up my rig. I sold my records to a close friend so I can listen to them when i call down to him - not too bad. HD800 is incoming! 
  
 By the way the WA2 is cracker! I will get to hear the NAD M51 through it on the weekend.


----------



## jc9394

Listening Concierto de Aranjuez with WA5LE, it the best I ever heard. Definitely better than all the amps I owned. The details, instruments separation, sound stage, presentation are just perfect.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

jc9394 said:


> Listening Concierto de Aranjuez with WA5LE, it the best I ever heard. Definitely better than all the amps I owned. The details, instruments separation, sound stage, presentation are just perfect.


 
  
 Who played the piece?  John Williams?


----------



## jc9394

Pepe Romero


----------



## Sko0byDoo

jc9394 said:


> Pepe Romero


 
  
 The master, of course....saw the Romero quartet a few years back at a concert...Amazing!


----------



## joyway

WOW, Just buy a wa 2 from a nice guy and so happy to be one of the Woo family. TS 5998 is a pair of very gorgous tubes. Still need time to burn in.


----------



## ardilla

Congratulations and welcome =)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2!


----------



## Silent One

Welcome joyway!


----------



## joyway

Thank you!


----------



## magiccabbage

joyway said:


> WOW, Just buy a wa 2 from a nice guy and so happy to be one of the Woo family. TS 5998 is a pair of very gorgous tubes. Still need time to burn in.


 
 I like the baby blue underneath! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  its the exact same colour as the LED light on the WA2.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

joyway said:


> WOW, Just buy a wa 2 from a nice guy and so happy to be one of the Woo family. TS 5998 is a pair of very gorgous tubes. Still need time to burn in.


 
 Congrats!  It should sound as good as it looks!


----------



## joyway

magiccabbage said:


> I like the baby blue underneath!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, very cute baby with a Chinese word "blessing" in his hand.


----------



## joyway

galaxyguy said:


> Congrats!  It should sound as good as it looks!


 
 Thanks. Wa2 is very musical and engaging.


----------



## koiloco

My WA22 just came in an hour ago.  So far, it's perfection.  No DSD playback noise issue with my TEAC UD 501 like I experienced with the taboo MKIII.  No hiss, no hum from either XLR or 1/4 TRS.  This thing is a tank.  Very impressed at this point.  Stock tubes are in for now.  After everything is checked out, I will swap in the upgraded  tubes.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

koiloco said:


> My WA22 just came in an hour ago.  So far, it's perfection.  No DSD playback noise issue with my TEAC UD 501 like I experienced with the taboo MKIII.  No hiss, no hum from either XLR or 1/4 TRS.  This thing is a tank.  Very impressed at this point.  Stock tubes are in for now.  After everything is checked out, I will swap in the upgraded  tubes.


 
 Woo hoo!


----------



## daverich4

dubstep girl said:


> WA2!




Wow, I didn't know you could HEAR heartbreak in a post.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

about to pack and ship the WA22. final listening session with a new tube! .... its like sooo bright, like the glow on top of it is unreal. also sounds incredibly good....its like putting a sophia, a metal mullard, a mighty 596, and an eml all in one....


----------



## jc9394

What tube is that?


----------



## GrindingThud

WE 422A! Mmmmmmmm


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes! it sounds incredible.... i think the WA22 sounds as good as GS-X right now. like i can't even describe, the feeling is even better than when i got the GEC 6AS7G, the bass is still a little too light on the WA22 for me though, but i can immediately tell that this tube is well worth the money spent, i can only imagine how good the WE 274B must sound.
  
 the sound is so 3d and its like all in my head, its so cool!


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> yes! it sounds incredible.... i think the WA22 sounds as good as GS-X right now. like i can't even describe, the feeling is even better than when i got the GEC 6AS7G, the bass is still a little too light on the WA22 for me though, but i can immediately tell that this tube is well worth the money spent, i can only imagine how good the WE 274B must sound.
> 
> the sound is so 3d and its like all in my head, its so cool!


 
 and you sold the amp Ha


----------



## GrindingThud

I did not realize that was a drop in replacement...nice. 
.....I vaguely remember seeing those cheap somewhere...thought they were 421A....look almost the same. 



dubstep girl said:


>


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grindingthud said:


> I did not realize that was a drop in replacement...nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 they have the tung sol 5998 plates yeah, they are grey though


----------



## koiloco

DSG, at this point with Sophia rectifier and 7236 power tubes, I am not finding the WA22 to be light on bass at all.  Not even a touch and this is in comparison to the Emotiva Mini-x.  I am very happy with what I am getting.  Reading your post about the WA22 being light on bass with your T1 got me worried a bit.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> DSG, at this point with Sophia rectifier and 7236 power tubes, I am not finding the WA22 to be light on bass at all.  Not even a touch and this is in comparison to the Emotiva Mini-x.  I am very happy with what I am getting.  Reading your post about the WA22 being light on bass with your T1 got me worried a bit.


 
  
 was less than WA2 or WA6-SE.
  
 less noticeable on my other headphones, but most on T1


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> was less than WA2 or WA6-SE.
> 
> less noticeable on my other headphones, but most on T1


 
  
 Ahhh, thx for the clarification.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> was less than WA2 or WA6-SE.
> 
> less noticeable on my other headphones, but most on T1




You may like the WA22 with WE422A and TS BGRP or Brimar CV1988, they definitely have more bass.


----------



## captslow

koiloco said:


> My WA22 just came in an hour ago.  So far, it's perfection.  No DSD playback noise issue with my TEAC UD 501 like I experienced with the taboo MKIII.  No hiss, no hum from either XLR or 1/4 TRS.  This thing is a tank.  Very impressed at this point.  Stock tubes are in for now.  After everything is checked out, I will swap in the upgraded  tubes.


 
 Looks great! I just wish this amp's output was not halved when using single ended inputs...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> You may like the WA22 with WE422A and TS BGRP or Brimar CV1988, they definitely have more bass.


 
  
 thats $1500 in tubes or more.


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> My WA22 just came in an hour ago.  So far, it's perfection.  No DSD playback noise issue with my TEAC UD 501 like I experienced with the taboo MKIII.  No hiss, no hum from either XLR or 1/4 TRS.  This thing is a tank.  Very impressed at this point.  Stock tubes are in for now.  After everything is checked out, I will swap in the upgraded  tubes.




Congrats and nice stand.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> thats $1500 in tubes or more.




Tubes usually cost more than the amp. :mad: my tubes buy list for WA5LE, EML 300B, WE 300B reissues, and EML 5U4G and now you got me thinking about WE 422A.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Tubes usually cost more than the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 the WE 422A puts the EML to shame. its like when u compared sophia 274b to the stock shuggy that woo gives you.
  
 they're still cheap too! 800 a pair whereas the eml is like 500-550 a pair, i think the extra 250$ is worth it


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> Congrats and nice stand.


 
 Lol, that was the only space left at the office that my HP cable could reach.  It's at home now.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> the WE 422A puts the EML to shame. its like when u compared sophia 274b to the stock shuggy that woo gives you.
> 
> they're still cheap too! 800 a pair whereas the eml is like 500-550 a pair, i think the extra 250$ is worth it




Another $1800+ need to save up on tea tin, luckily I have few TS 6SN7 BGRP already.


----------



## ru4music

jc9394 said:


> Another $1800+ need to save up on tea tin, luckily I have few TS 6SN7 BGRP already.


 

 CRAP!!! Come on Powerball/ lottery...


----------



## koiloco

quick question you guys!
  
 Are these the same as the ones sold by Woo ?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-MATCHED-PAIR-SYLVANIA-6SN7GT-FOIL-BAD-BOY-2-HOLE-Vintage-Tube-NOS-NIB-/161131719203?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258432ea23
  
 thx


----------



## reeltime

koiloco said:


> quick question you guys!
> 
> Are these the same as the ones sold by Woo ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, Jack sells NOS brown base Sylvania 6SN7s


----------



## koiloco

reeltime said:


> No, Jack sells NOS brown base Sylvania 6SN7s


 
 Thx for clarifying this.  Any recommendation for driver tube in WA22?


----------



## reeltime

koiloco said:


> Thx for clarifying this.  Any recommendation for driver tube in WA22?


 
  
 Nope.  I'm a WA5LE owner.  
  
 I've often wondered if the WA22 would be on the short list of best HD800 amps.  I've read lots of theories about the push-pull amps being an ideal amp for the 800.  I will never know, but I'm curious.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

596 for sale on ebay right now! from nwavesailor 
http://m.ebay.com/itm/300998579364?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> 596 for sale on ebay right now! from nwavesailor
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does not ship to me. But hey, I wouldn't buy it either, I don't like it that much, maybe if it was $30


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> 596 for sale on ebay right now! from nwavesailor
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/300998579364?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1




Dang, I should sell my matched pair for $300. NOT


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> Thx for clarifying this.  Any recommendation for driver tube in WA22?




I like Brimar CV1988, TS 6SN7 BGRP, and NU 6F8G (adapters needed).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

My sylvania 6f8g where defective, but they sounded the best on wa22 i think. Very musical tubes


----------



## Clayton SF

ultrainferno said:


> Does not ship to me. But hey, I wouldn't buy it either, I don't like it that much, maybe if it was $30


 
 I'll bring mine to you in person. 
 I prefer the GZ37.


----------



## 2359glenn

dubstep girl said:


> the WE 422A puts the EML to shame. its like when u compared sophia 274b to the stock shuggy that woo gives you.
> 
> they're still cheap too! 800 a pair whereas the eml is like 500-550 a pair, i think the extra 250$ is worth it


 

 The 422A will work good in the OTL it can easily handle 350ma output this is as good as
 the 3DG4 , 5AU4 , and GZ37.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359glenn said:


> The 422A will work good in the OTL it can easily handle 350ma output this is as good as
> the 3DG4 , 5AU4 , and GZ37.




Excellent!!


----------



## koiloco

Who bought the 596?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's gone.  Too fast.


----------



## bbophead

koiloco said:


> My WA22 just came in an hour ago.  So far, it's perfection.  No DSD playback noise issue with my TEAC UD 501 like I experienced with the taboo MKIII.  No hiss, no hum from either XLR or 1/4 TRS.  This thing is a tank.  Very impressed at this point.  Stock tubes are in for now.  After everything is checked out, I will swap in the upgraded  tubes.


 
 Woo is da bomb, isn't it?
  
 Besides the sound, I love the look and the build.


----------



## koiloco

bbophead said:


> Woo is da bomb, isn't it?
> 
> Besides the sound, I love the look and the build.


 

 So far, after 24 of ownership, I concur.  Now, I just need some good 6SN7...


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> Tubes usually cost more than the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Where can you use the WE 422A in the WA5LE? I don't see it in the compatibility list.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

musicman59 said:


> Where can you use the WE 422A in the WA5LE? I don't see it in the compatibility list.


 
 I believe it's a rectifier, so you can use it instead of the 5U4G tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

page 750 of this thread will answer that


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> page 750 of this thread will answer that


 
  
  
 This?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/11235#post_7573944


----------



## Dubstep Girl

​


jc9394 said:


> This?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/11235#post_7573944




Yes as well as the picture down below 

Good thing u pointed it out, i guess 422a is indirectly heated, meaning it might not work on the dna strarus, which looks like im gonna be buying.. But itll work on the glenn amp


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> ​ Yes as well as the picture down below
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think it will work, since I used to use GZ34 black and metal base with the Sonnet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

It will work but not optimally, dna says u need directly heated rectifiers to work properly on stratus.

So 5r4gy series, u52, 5u4g, 5u4gb, maybe 274b (he can test this for me he said), those will work.

Not gz34, gz37, 596, etc


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> It will work but not optimally, dna says u need directly heated rectifiers to work properly on stratus.
> 
> So 5r4gy series, u52, 5u4g, 5u4gb, maybe 274b (he can test this for me he said), those will work.
> 
> *Not gz34, gz37, 596, etc*


 
  
 That is too bad, the Sonnet sounded amazing with metal base GZ34...  It may has to do with the 2A3 tube


----------



## Angelbelow

Pulled the trigger on the WA7 Fireflies.. now the wait begins.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yeah he explained a little better, something about a separate cathode and heater pins or something. So it probably would work but not ideally


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> It will work but not optimally, dna says u need directly heated rectifiers to work properly on stratus.
> So 5r4gy series, u52, 5u4g, 5u4gb, maybe 274b (he can test this for me he said), those will work.
> Not gz34, gz37, 596, etc


 
  
 Hi DG: Isn't the 596 a directly heated rectifier?


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> they're still cheap too! 800 a pair whereas the eml is like 500-550 a pair, i think the extra 250$ is worth it




Spoken like a true audiophile. 


Car payment? Pfff forget that.


----------



## 2359glenn

The 596 is a direct heated rectifier it is really the same as a 5U4GB
 with the anode connections brought out the top.
 The 422A will be great fot the OTL though. Hope to have it finished this weekend and ship next week.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yeah he said 5u4gb will work.

He also mentioned something about the 596 having a separate cathode and the heater pins or something, not really sure what he meant but its diffferent as well as the gz34/gz37


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Over the phone he basically said the same thing he said when i pmed him a while ago

" I designed the amp around the 5U4G directly heated rectifier tube and get the high voltage from a center tap on the filament supply for balanced current draw and lower noise. They 274B may work, but I haven't tried it yet. I don't recommend the GZ34/5AR4 and GZ37 because it has a separate cathode which is tied to one of the heater pins and won't work optimally in the Stratus. The 596 is the same way, so I don't recommend using it.

You can try the 5R4 because it is also a directly heated rectifier with slightly more forward voltage drop, which yields a little lower high voltage for the tubes."


----------



## jc9394

gloryuprising said:


> Spoken like a true audiophile.
> 
> 
> Car payment? Pfff forget that.


 
  
  
 What car payment???  Good old fashion way, I bring a paper bag to a car dealer and hand it over to the sales.


----------



## Joshhh

Audiophiles don't need any car payments. We choose to drive $3,000 cars while owning $30,000 in audio gear. Pretty good trade-off to me.


----------



## jc9394

We need another 488 views...


----------



## daverich4

koiloco said:


> Who bought the 596?  :eek: It's gone.  Too fast.




Not me. It was at $110 with 10 seconds left to go. I put in $154 and boop, like that it went to $156.50 which is where it ended.


----------



## jc9394

Shameless plug.  Thinking of selling some tubes since I sold the WA22.  The 6F8G with adapter does not fit well on WA5LE, they are almost touching the 300B. 
  
 Tung Sol VT99, same as TS6SN7 BGRP
 GEC 6AS7G (not 100% sure yet)
  
 They are both NOS with original box, only tested when I received them.  Definitely less than an hour on them.  PM me if interested.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

angelbelow said:


> Pulled the trigger on the WA7 Fireflies.. now the wait begins.


 
 Awesome amp!  You won't be disappointed, I think.


----------



## Frank I

For anyone interested in a near field monitor for the WA5 her wis my review on the Omega 3TOmega 3T Single-Driver Monitors Review


----------



## CH23

joshhh said:


> Audiophiles don't need any car payments. We choose to drive $3,000 cars while owning $30,000 in audio gear. Pretty good trade-off to me.


 

 i prefer to drive headphones over cars too ;P


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> For anyone interested in a near field monitor for the WA5 her wis my review on the Omega 3TOmega 3T Single-Driver Monitors Review




U still review for dagogo? U gotta add that to your title


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug.  Thinking of selling some tubes since I sold the WA22.  The 6F8G with adapter does not fit well on WA5LE, they are almost touching the 300B.
> 
> Tung Sol VT99, same as TS6SN7 BGRP
> GEC 6AS7G (not 100% sure yet)
> ...




Buy the gec, or ill end up with 4 pairs


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> U still review for dagogo? U gotta add that to your title


 
 That was my last review for them. I submitted that before the RMAF and resigned at the RMAF so i let them publish that review.


----------



## atomicbob

angelbelow said:


> Pulled the trigger on the WA7 Fireflies.. now the wait begins.


 
 The wait won't be as long as for some esoteric amps, and will be well worth it. WA7 is a great amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> Who bought the 596?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I lost another one on e-bay that went for $156!!


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> I lost another one on e-bay that went for $156!!


 
  
 Wow, you willing pay that much for 596?  I remember the most expensive one I paid was $40.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

prices have gone up quite a bit.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> prices have gone up quite a bit.


 
  
 Much better than my stocks, the first pair is only $20/each shipped.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I lost another one on e-bay that went for $156!!
> ...


 
 That was not my bid. Amazing!


----------



## Silent One

My first love had gone up to $13 and I still wasn't too concerned with the price.


----------



## doodootoo

Hi guys, I'm a quiet lurker of this forum and I bought a wa22 about a month ago. This amp was a pretty big purchase for me so I was/am pretty stoked about it (upgraded to the wa22 from a matrix m-stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Yesterday, as I was turning off the system after about 6 hours of listening I noticed a subtle humming coming from the amp. I at first thought it was the tubes, so I switched them all out with the stock tubes and yet the humming persisted. I also moved the amp to another part of the room where there is no interference and switched out 2-3 other power cords and nothing changed. The hum seems to come out of the center of the amp? So I am sorta at a loss about what to do. Is this normal?
  
 I can understand if the amp hums when I initially turn it on. But it seems kinda weird that it still hums so loudly after 6 hours. Please put my mind at ease!


----------



## koiloco

^ I suggest that you email Jack about this.  My WA22 is couple day old and doesn't have this hum, even hours and hours of listening.  Gluck.


----------



## jc9394

Is it when the amp is off? Did you try to unplug everything?


----------



## doodootoo

When the amp is off, it makes no humming sound. When I turn it on, it hums kinda loudly, slowly gets quieter, and then gets loud again as the tubes warm up. I don't have anything hooked up to the amp at this time. I guess I'll e-mail Jack and see about sending the amp back to get looked at. And thank you for the help! I appreciate it.


----------



## Silent One

I wonder if it's a ground loop issue. Because those can be introduced or disappear from one's system at any time.


----------



## ru4music

silent one said:


> I wonder if it's a ground loop issue. Because those can be introduced or disappear from one's system at any time.


 
 Not likely since there is nothing hooked up to the amp.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> Buy the gec, or ill end up with 4 pairs


 
 I'm thinking about it!  You can always loan me a pair so your not in jeopardy of that happening.


----------



## shipsupt

And this is the amp humming externally, not a sound you're hearing through the headphones, right?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

actually thinking about it, i think im gonna end up buying JC's GEC tubes...
  
 waiting till i get glenn amp, but i think im gonna buy them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 they're only straight bases though 
  
 i'd kill for some curved base that say "Gecovalve" or "Osram" or "MWT" though


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> actually thinking about it, i think im gonna end up buying JC's GEC tubes...
> 
> waiting till i get glenn amp, but i think im gonna buy them
> 
> ...


 

 I also sen't him a PM, but would really like curved as well.  Need a pair for the WA2/ HD800 combo!


----------



## jc9394

ru4music said:


> I also sen't him a PM, but would really like curved as well.  Need a pair for the WA2/ HD800 combo!


 
  
 I wish I still the curved base one...they are better very slightly and you will not able to tell the difference unless you have both and listen to the right after each other.  The curved one is the first year of production only.


----------



## jc9394

ru4music said:


> I'm thinking about it!  You can always loan me a pair so your not in jeopardy of that happening.


 
  
 If I sell mines, I do need to borrow one from DG for a short while.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> If I sell mines, I do need to borrow one from DG for a short while.


 
  
 for audition with glenn amp?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> for audition with glenn amp?


 
  
  
 Yep, depends on timing I may send you the 6336 to audition too.  Or personally deliver it.


----------



## doodootoo

shipsupt said:


> And this is the amp humming externally, not a sound you're hearing through the headphones, right?


 
  
 Yup, it hums from the amp. There's no humming sound coming out of my headphones and I don't ever listen past 9 or 10 on the volume pot.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Yep, depends on timing I may send you the 6336 to audition too.  Or personally deliver it.


 
  
 i thought glenn was including 6336?


----------



## Silent One

wonder if the transformer has gotten a case of the _shakes..._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i want these just cause they say osram on the tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all mine say "GEC"
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-OSRAM-BROWN-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-PAIR-K1-/390438538194?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae7f34bd2


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i thought glenn was including 6336?




Nope, just 3DG4. No other tubes included.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ah.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i want these just cause they say osram on the tube   all mine say "GEC"
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1834-6AS7G-OSRAM-BROWN-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-PAIR-K1-/390438538194?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5ae7f34bd2




$560??? I take mines with GEC label.


----------



## longbowbbs

Tube prices are getting out of hand really quickly.


----------



## shipsupt

doodootoo said:


> Yup, it hums from the amp. There's no humming sound coming out of my headphones and I don't ever listen past 9 or 10 on the volume pot.


 
  
 SilentOne is thinking the same thing I was leading towards... it very well could be the transformer humming.  The are many reasons why.  I would start with a call/email to Jack.  He may have experienced this before.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

longbowbbs said:


> Tube prices are getting out of hand really quickly.


 
  
 yeah thats why i've been buying all the expensive tubes i want right now. at least of the 6AS7G and 5U4G variety.
  
 if anything, i can sell them back in a year or 2 if i don't use, and they will sell for more than they cost now.
  
 i think TS 5998 will cost about 300$ a pair in another year (some places have been selling at that price already, but soon it'll be the minimum) , and 596 will hit 200$ mark pretty soon


----------



## Silent One

regarding speculation, you mean _if_ the tubes remain in good performing order. and that's one of the risks vacuum tubes carry.


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> i think TS 5998 will cost about 300$ a pair in another year (some places have been selling at that price already, but soon it'll be the minimum) , and 596 will hit 200$ mark pretty soon


 
  
 PFF, I'm hoping they go NOS 300b prices to make my stock a good deal. Currently I'm getting the laser beam eyes from my wife every time she see a shipment of tubes.
  
 ...the cool thing is she's starting to recognize the tube by shape. =D


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gloryuprising said:


> PFF, I'm hoping they go NOS 300b prices to make my stock a good deal. Currently I'm getting the laser beam eyes from my wife every time she see a shipment of tubes.
> 
> ...the cool thing is she's starting to recognize the tube by shape. =D


 




  
 lol what tubes r u stocking up on?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh btw, HA!!!!! i called it!!!
  
 mighty 596 for 200$
 a little overpriced though
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-HIGH-GRADE-RECTIFIER-TUBE-TYPE-USAF-596-100-NOS-NEW-USA-MADE-274A-PLATE-/271306606887?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3f2b224927


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> lol what tubes r u stocking up on?


 
  
 Always on the look out for more 596s.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> oh btw, HA!!!!! i called it!!!
> 
> mighty 596 for 200$
> a little overpriced though
> ...




Dang, I'm selling my MATCHED pair for $500.


----------



## jc9394

gloryuprising said:


> PFF, I'm hoping they go NOS 300b prices to make my stock a good deal. Currently I'm getting the laser beam eyes from my wife every time she see a shipment of tubes.
> 
> ...the cool thing is she's starting to recognize the tube by shape. =D




One advise, ship to work.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Dang, I'm selling my MATCHED pair for $500.


 
  
 good luck. i've seen them sell for 350 though.
  
 then u can upgrade to 422A which has the coherency and detail of the 596, the dynamics and effortlessness of the GZ34 metal mullard, the warmth and body of the EML, and the transparency Brimar, along with the tonality of a GEC, oh and clarity above all of those


----------



## jc9394

How about $1000 for TWO matched pair with adapters? j/k


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> good luck. i've seen them sell for 350 though.
> 
> then u can upgrade to 422A which has the coherency and detail of the 596, the dynamics and effortlessness of the GZ34 metal mullard, the warmth and body of the EML, and the transparency Brimar, along with the tonality of a GEC, oh and clarity above all of those


 
  
 I'm not sure if I'm convinced with the NOS WE rectifiers.... But then again I've never had the chance to try one and I'm afraid of what I'd find (my poor wallet can't handle all the excitement)....
  
 I have an old Mazda branded 5AR4 made in Holland, not sure if I could tell the difference between it and the PS Sophia....


----------



## jc9394

5AR4 sound totally different from Sophia, way more dynamic.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> 5AR4 sound totally different from Sophia, way more dynamic.


 
  
 Maybe I have the volume up to high.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw i decided if glenn amp disappoints, im getting wa2 and wa6-se again, i miss em both


----------



## jc9394

For T1? The ppl from other thread, said it will be a kick ass amp for T1.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well wa2 for t1. 

and havent heard that from anyone whos also heard wa2, so im really curious as to what the glenn will sound like with t1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it seems very promising, i hope i like it since it can use alot of tubes and is also cheaper than wa2


----------



## jc9394

The money you save for the amp can buy more WE422A and WE421A. :evil:


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> 5AR4 sound totally different from Sophia, way more dynamic.


 
  
 what do you suggest for drive tubes?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> The money you save for the amp can buy more WE422A and WE421A.


 
  
 i wish, probably will go towards cables for hd 800/t1/he-6 as well as maybe new pads/headband for HD 800.
  
 oh of course if i end up keeping glenn amp, a pair of those 6336 and maybe the GEC BL63
  
 btw this just arrived 10 mins ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 i want to know if they're any better than 5998, they do seem a little different in construction, the glass is fatter too, and they seem a little nicer overall.


----------



## jc9394

gloryuprising said:


> what do you suggest for drive tubes?




WA6SE? I love 6FD7 and metal base GZ34 (black base is very good too)




dubstep girl said:


> i wish, probably will go towards cables for hd 800/t1/he-6 as well as maybe new pads/headband for HD 800.
> 
> oh of course if i end up keeping glenn amp, a pair of those 6336 and maybe the GEC BL63
> 
> ...




Nice, can never keep up with you on tubes. I will need a renting program from you.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> WA6SE? I love 6FD7 and metal base GZ34 (black base is very good too)


 
  
Maybe that's my problem; my amp is super vintage pre-April 17, 2010.


----------



## Clayton SF

The 421A bases have different printing. Do you know the years each was manufactured? I like the _Western Electric_ logo on the left base.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

not sure but yeah, i can tell its older, the tube is also slightly bigger.
  
 these are probably 60s. 
  
 i have a 50s 422A and the domino plates are also grey vs black. i saw some 422A that are 60s and with the darker plates like the 421A here.
  
 as far as 421A goes, i think theres also grey plate versions out there.
  
  
 from the seller of the 421A pair: date codes are * 7913 & 8026.*


----------



## Clayton SF

I like those domino plates. They just look powerful. Like steel beams with rivets even though they're recessed. Nice purchase, DG!


----------



## EluamousNailo

This is probably a dumb question, but I've been looking at possibly getting the WA2 or WA22, and in terms of the WA22, is it possible use the balanced XLR input with the single ended output?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

eluamousnailo said:


> This is probably a dumb question, but I've been looking at possibly getting the WA2 or WA22, and in terms of the WA22, is it possible use the balanced XLR input with the single ended output?


 
  
 yes but you would only be using half the amp.
  
 balanced source is basically a must. u can use any of the outputs though.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> yes but you would only be using half the amp.
> 
> balanced source is basically a must. u can use any of the outputs though.




 I think EN is using balanced input and SE output. Definitely, most likely there isn't much difference between SE and balanced out.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i don't think there is either


----------



## jc9394

Unless you swap out the stock with a silver cable...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Unless you swap out the stock with a silver cable...


 
  
 yes!  l0l
  
 that was a huge difference, the LCD-3 just came alive with the silver dragon with the furutech rhodium xlr's


----------



## jc9394

For some reason I do like the Q cable with HD800.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> Unless you swap out the stock with a silver cable...


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> yes!  l0l
> 
> that was a huge difference, the LCD-3 just came alive with the silver dragon with the furutech rhodium xlr's


----------



## EluamousNailo

jc9394 said:


> I think EN is using balanced input and SE output. Definitely, most likely there isn't much difference between SE and balanced out.


 
  
  
 Yes, that would be the case.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nah, it really did. but im not sure if it was the copper vs. silver and the better  cable, or just cause my old cable single-ended and the XLR gave it twice the power with the GS-X


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> nah, it really did. but im not sure if it was the copper vs. silver and the better  cable, or just cause my old cable single-ended and the XLR gave it twice the power with the GS-X




X2, LCDs scale very well with better cables. Especially a good quality silver one.


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> nah, it really did. but im not sure if it was the copper vs. silver and the better  cable, or just cause my old cable single-ended and the XLR gave it twice the power with the GS-X


 
  
  


jc9394 said:


> X2, LCDs scale very well with better cables. Especially a good quality silver one.


 
 Damn, more stuff to buy after the GSX-MKII
  
 Oh well, I'm in the market for a longer balanced cable anyhow for the LCD3s; the stock cables a few inches to short for my setup....
  
 Anyone got any suggestions beside Moon Audio's silver dragon?.... I'm hoping to keep it <$200 (I know, I'm a dreamer)....


----------



## jc9394

Try Q audio, they are really good too. I'm using it with hd800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

someone bought that $200 596 tube, doesen't say price though, guess they gave a "Best offer" and they accepted.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am beginning to think I want to try to see what the cheapest tube combo is I can assemble and see how it sounds.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> someone bought that $200 596 tube, doesen't say price though, guess they gave a "Best offer" and they accepted.


 
 130 was the bid he accepted. i offered 120.00 but I was at a meet today so I never got to counteroffer but I would go higher that==n that price. I think its crazy.


----------



## kazsud

dubstep girl said:


> btw i decided if glenn amp disappoints, im getting wa2 and wa6-se again, i miss em both




Get the WA5 it makes the He-6 and HD800 sound righteous!!


----------



## Silent One

Usually somewhere round midsummer, tube dealers across the nation gather for  - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 was it a "Hoedown" or "Hootenanny?" - and their convention this year was the first (I believe) that the USAF/JAN-596 made the collective discussion.


----------



## Frank I

kazsud said:


> Get the WA5 it makes the He-6 and HD800 sound righteous!!


 
 I new you would say that. . it is an awesome amp and it is definitely end game. I am spinning the hE6 on them now.


----------



## jc9394

WA5LE has enough power for HE6?


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> WA5LE has enough power for HE6?


 
 I am not sure that it does, The LE puts out 1.5 watts  so I  don't think it will drive them properly. Jack recommended the WA5 for the he6 today but likes the lCD 3 on the regular section instead of the  XLR. I use the he6 on the XLR and I know Jose has the lE iand he said they are OK but n=he using the Pass amp to drive his HE6.  I.5watts is not optimum to drive the he6 properly especially for classical recordings with huge dynamic range.


----------



## Silent One

WA5... K1K


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would get wa5 but the double rectifiers, id have to sell all mine and get pairs if i wanted to tube roll. also id be more iterested in 2a3.

think glenn could make a 2a3 amp with 5u4g tubes and his choice of drivers?


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> i would get wa5 but the double rectifiers, id have to sell all mine and get pairs if i wanted to tube roll. also id be more iterested in 2a3.
> 
> think glenn could make a 2a3 amp with 5u4g tubes and his choice of drivers?


 
 Guess what you don't need matching rectifier. The 596 I am using are not matched and sound terrific an di have used others also non matched and they all sound fine. Most tube vendors do not even match rectifiers


----------



## Dubstep Girl

still expensive, i just bought a single cossor gz37 and a single U52 tube as well...
  
 i've heard mixed things about 6sn7 driving 300b as well.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> still expensive, i just bought a single cossor gz37 and a single U52 tube as well...
> 
> i've heard mixed things about 6sn7 driving 300b as well.


 
 hearing and listening are two different things. Ask EML George Lenz if amps being built with 300B tubes can be driven properly with 6sn7 and he is a top notch amplify builder and the  answer was that they can absolutely be built using the 6sn7. Ask people who own the amps. Besides why keep talking about it then and just move on from the Wa5 amp then if you feel that way.  But you should listen to one first YOURSELF and then say if its for you or not.  All I know this amp was a huge hit today at the meet.
  
 You should listen to the amplifier and then comment on what you hear and not on what others tell you they have or have not heard. Some people give comments regarding the amplifier have not even ever heard one. Thats the funny part and every builder has different ways they build circuits and frankly my ears tell me this is a end game amp for ME anyway


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i guess i just have to listen to it then.
  
 i preferred WA2 to the WA22 despite the improvements in soundstage and detail. and alot of people say the same thing about eddie current balancing act and cavalli being endgame and really good and i don't like either.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> i guess i just have to listen to it then.
> 
> i preferred WA2 to the WA22 despite the improvements in soundstage and detail. and alot of people say the same thing about eddie current balancing act and cavalli being endgame and really good and i don't like either.


 
 Well that should tell you to listen to and buy what YOU like and not what anyone else likes. I heard the Edduie Current Balancing act and liked it very much


----------



## Silent One

Our individual preferences are a wonderful thing. That said, we also have different hearing abilities; different sensitivities...


----------



## jc9394

I'm with DG on some points and some of yours Frank.  I heard the EDBA during a meet and I don't like it myself too.  As much as I like the WA22, DG find it bass light.  it is all personal preference.
  
 As matched tubes rectifier or not, if it is 5-10% off we probably can't tell a differences but once it is 10+%, I bet my money we can start tell tonal imbalance.
  
 Just like camera, is the D800E my end game camera?  probably not as new and better will be releasing.  I always thought lens can't be better anymore, boy I was wrong big time.


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> i guess i just have to listen to it then.
> 
> i preferred WA2 to the WA22 despite the improvements in soundstage and detail. and alot of people say the same thing about eddie current balancing act and cavalli being endgame and really good and i don't like either.


 

 Which Cavalli? Which one?  
 Liquid Glass? Oooooooooo...


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Which Cavalli? Which one?
> Liquid Glass? Oooooooooo...


 
  
 I do not like LF but have not heard any of his new releases.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> Which Cavalli? Which one?
> Liquid Glass? Oooooooooo...


 
  
 and Lightning.


----------



## Frank I

JC I agree with you 100 percent but she making comment on the WA5 and quoting comments form other people and she has never heard the amplifier. I heard the Eddie current with the I think the P4 tubes which sounded IMO excellent.  It was audeze that had them in San Francisco. It was very addictive sounding for me to listen to that tube,  For me the WA5 is my end game amplifier. I lived with a CJ Premier 11A for 12 years and will do so with this amplifier.  What I am saying g is she should listen to the amp before she rules it in or out and not quote what someone is saying about 6sn7 tubes driving 300B amps. Designers and builders been using 6sn7 in 300B for years. Some other builders may prefer a different tube in their circuit but in my opinion it either sounds good or it don't and the WA5 sounds terrific for me . I don't need any other tube amplifiers and am not seeking any others out. I will have this one for a very long time.
  
 In any event with matched rectifiers who to really know if pairs we are buying are matched or not. Especially on Ebay. Unless you have the proper testing gear to tell them not sur what is ir is not. I bought some from Upscale audio and they are enos matched and they sound excellent. I am pretty sure these 5976 tubes everyone been buying are not matched either and they sound good. I have no issues with my RCA and have used two different sylvanias and never noticed any differences. I also have 6F8G in there now and I don't think they ar ematched either if they are who knows they are over  70 year old but they sound good. Many tube builders will tell you with auto biasing amps you do not need matched tubes either. So who to say.  It all good though!!!


----------



## jc9394

The 596 pairs I have are matched, I purchased 40 596s to get 4 matched.  The seller just tested it and label the box for me. 
  
 I think DG ruled out WA5 is the dual rectifier requirements, she has plenty of single rectifiers and if she is getting a WA5 she either have to sell all the single rectifiers or purchase more to get them in pair.  Either way will be extremely expensive.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> The 596 pairs I have are matched, I purchased 40 596s to get 4 matched.  The seller just tested it and label the box for me.
> 
> I think DG ruled out WA5 is the dual rectifier requirements, she has plenty of single rectifiers and if she is getting a WA5 she either have to sell all the single rectifiers or purchase more to get them in pair.  Either way will be extremely expensive.


 
  
 ^ pretty much that.
  
 and 6SN7 are expensive as well, basically i already spent alot of money on rectifiers and alot on power tubes, would not be good buying WA5.
  
 i wouldn't sell any of my power tubes either, i have almost all of them now for the 6AS7G family.


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> As matched tubes rectifier or not, if it is 5-10% off we probably can't tell a differences but once it is 10+%, I bet my money we can start tell tonal imbalance.




How do you define "matched" and how can you measure it?


----------



## Clayton SF

DG like a lot of Head-Fi'ers including myself are getting a feel for other amps by input from others. Sometimes it hits home sometimes it doesn't. We all need to flesh out our wants and likes by impressions and meets and sometimes pure luck. I respect DG's desire to persue her personal sound.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> How do you define "matched" and how can you measure it?


 

 Tube tester, my friend has one.


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> Tube tester, my friend has one.




A tube tester only tests certain characteristics of a tube but it cannot tell you if they are truly matched. They do not measure the tube under the conditions that they are in when you are actually using them. If someone tells you that they can match tubes with a tester they are BSing you. I have 3 testers but I don't have the ability to "match" tubes.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> A tube tester only tests certain characteristics of a tube but it cannot tell you if they are truly matched. They do not measure the tube under the conditions that they are in when you are actually using them. If someone tells you that they can match tubes with a tester they are BSing you. I have 3 testers but I don't have the ability to "match" tubes.


 

 That I knew, there is no perfectly matched.  There are variances on the caps, wires, and everything else in the amp that may affect it.  What I know is it is as close as possible when I put them in and hope everything will be matched coming out of the headphone jack.  Heck, even the headphone drivers have variances too.
  
 After all, I did graduate with EE degree.


----------



## reeltime

gloryuprising said:


> Damn, more stuff to buy after the GSX-MKII
> 
> Oh well, I'm in the market for a longer balanced cable anyhow for the LCD3s; the stock cables a few inches to short for my setup....
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions beside Moon Audio's silver dragon?.... I'm hoping to keep it <$200 (I know, I'm a dreamer)....


 
  
 Check these out-- 
  
 http://toxic-cables.co.uk
  
 Outstanding hand built cable at a great price (though not under your $200)


----------



## longbowbbs

reeltime said:


> gloryuprising said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, more stuff to buy after the GSX-MKII
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## Nic Rhodes

another 596
  
 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261315729536&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1120


----------



## Mihis

Hehee
  
 Well that didn't last long did it
  
 M


----------



## 2359glenn

Matched Rectifiers in the WA-5
  
 The rectifiers in the WA-5 should be from the same lot. Woo has the 5U4 heaters in series and have to have matched heaters
 or one will have a early failure. 5U4s are not meant to be run in series. This is why I came up with the 596 they have matched heaters.
 I even made a tester to test for matched heaters when I was selling them with adapters.
 You can go back in this forum and look at the problems Dannie01 had with rectifiers blowing up in the WA-5.
 Came up with the 596 specifically for the WA-5 but everyone started using them on other amps they are a good military grade rectifier.
  
 DG will have to sell all the rectifiers unless she has them in pairs ore they will be blowing up in the WA-5.


----------



## Frank I

2359glenn said:


> Matched Rectifiers in the WA-5
> 
> The rectifiers in the WA-5 should be from the same lot. Woo has the 5U4 heaters in series and have to have matched heaters
> or one will have a early failure. 5U4s are not meant to be run in series. This is why I came up with the 596 they have matched heaters.
> ...


 
 Glenn I hane not had one issue with any 5U4G in the Woo and this amps been here for months. Not a single issue with any of  the tube  I have been using in my WA5. Not one tube  has failed since I have owned this amplifier.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> and you are sounding like a Woo basher.


 
 Glenn is not bashing Woo at all.  Dannie01 does have a lot of issue with rectifiers and drivers tube before, especially using GEC BL63.


----------



## GloryUprising

reeltime said:


> Check these out--
> 
> http://toxic-cables.co.uk
> 
> Outstanding hand built cable at a great price (though not under your $200)


 
  
 I had a set of Toxic Cables's "Silver Poison" when I had my LCD2s and didn't hear a big difference (then again I didn't notice a difference between a 5ar4 and a PS Sophia either) so I've come to the conclusion that I'm not part for the group that can hear differences in cable. I can, however, FEEL the difference between a well built cable vs a lower quality cable (and the build quality for toxic cables is very good, BJC is also a company with outstanding build quality).
  
 For me, cabling is more about practical considerations vs 'tweaking' the sound of my cans... In this case, I need something in the 10ft/3.3m range in balanced configuration.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Glenn is not bashing Woo at all.  Dannie01 does have a lot of issue with rectifiers and drivers tube before, especially using GEC BL63.


 
 yeah i remember hearing about the rectifier problems on the woo in  the past. 
  
 i think they fixed most of them, but who knows. maybe it was only limited to WA5 and WA6-SE, i know the WA6-SE is fixed cause of the single rectifier vs double


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nic rhodes said:


> another 596
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261315729536&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1120


 
  
 wow 42 dollar shipping.


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> nic rhodes said:
> 
> 
> > another 596
> ...


 
 I think that is from the US to the UK....


----------



## Clayton SF

Makes me have second thoughts on getting a WA5. Blowing up rectifiers is not fun. But it can happen in any amp. My RK-60 just flashed bright purple a few weeks ago. It looked like there was a purple ghost in that tube trying to escape and my speaker was making thud sounds. I have just lost one RK-60. Fortunately I have a spare.


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> and you are sounding like a Woo basher.


 
 Not because I own a Woo now but I tend to agree with Frank on this.  Not good...


----------



## koiloco

2359glenn said:


> Matched Rectifiers in the WA-5
> 
> The rectifiers in the WA-5 should be from the same lot. Woo has the 5U4 heaters in series and have to have matched heaters
> or one will have a early failure. 5U4s are not meant to be run in series. This is why I came up with the 596 they have matched heaters.
> ...


 
 and what a way to put some fear into DG about her tube collection


----------



## GloryUprising

clayton sf said:


> Makes me have second thoughts on getting a WA5. Blowing up rectifiers is not fun. But it can happen in any amp. My RK-60 just flashed bright purple a few weeks ago. It looked like there was a purple ghost in that tube trying to escape and my speaker was making thud sounds. I have just lost one RK-60. Fortunately I have a spare.


 
  
 Yea, when I rolled in my first USAF596, it was good for a few hours then blew up and took out a good fuse (HiFi Tuning Gold, too bad they stopped making them) with it. The lightning storm was kinda cool, but that was a one time glitch from a bad tube. *fingers crossed*


----------



## Dubstep Girl

its too much money and time to resell and rebuy everything. 
  
 and i don't think Glenn is bashing woo, just as an amp designer/amp builder, just explaining how the WA5 is built and why the rectifiers have to be matched for best performance. and why he came up with the 596 for it.
  
 if he was bashing them, he probably wouldn't have taken the time to even come up with a solution to the rectifier problem, and much less make adapters and mods for woo amps.
  
  
 i know i've had issues with WA22/WA6-SE rectifiers as well. mostly things which don't seem to affect performance, but just don't seem good for the tubes lifespan.


----------



## Clayton SF

^ +1
 And well said.


----------



## Silent One

@ 2359glenn
  





 Great recap! A few of us current day-to-day posters remain that rode along side that experience. I would also like to add that while some rectifiers can marginally skate by what's recommended, the EML Glass was susceptible at that time, blowing up in WA22s, WA6SEs & WA6s as well. But even more critical for WA5 owners.
  
*Time for trivia!* For all you tube aficionados out there, in the beginning I affectionately dubbed the USAF-596 _"The Mighty 596" _but why? Really, I don't just go around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




making stuff up! It's based on technical merit.


----------



## Wapiti

We have heard the disadvantage of the Wa-5 design of placing the 5U4 heaters in series.
  
 What are the advantages?


----------



## Clayton SF

wapiti said:


> We have heard the disadvantage of the Wa-5 design of placing the 5U4 heaters in series.
> 
> What are the advantages?


 

 That's a very good question.


----------



## ru4music

wapiti said:


> We have heard the disadvantage of the Wa-5 design of placing the 5U4 heaters in series.
> 
> What are the advantages?


 

 There is not really a technical advantage at all, it ultimately is just cheaper (cost/ real-estate) because your not using two transformers/ dual taps etc.  I agree with Glenn on this one, series heaters although used in earlier designs is NOT the best way to run heaters.


----------



## Clayton SF

ru4music said:


> There is not really a technical advantage at all, it ultimately is just cheaper (cost/ real-estate) because your not using two transformers/ dual taps etc.  I agree with Glenn on this one, series heaters although used in earlier designs is NOT the best way to run heaters.


 
 Cheaper (cost/real estate) is not good. Especially when an amp starts to blow out expensive rectifiers because of that. Glenn is good at spotting ways to improve amp schematics. When I sent him one of my commercial amps in for mods (not a Woo) he discovered several errors in the wiring and fixed it. I really trust Glenn's expertise in understanding amp designs be it his or others. The proof has always been in the pudding; his amps sound great.


----------



## spagetka

Jack cannot see the problem with EML glass after revision. I have asked him twice.


----------



## Wapiti

Would a single rectifier be a better choice then?  Why the two rectifiers?


----------



## koiloco

Well, let's let the 2 designers/builders duke it out and take it elsewhere. This is a woo appreciation thread. When I m ready to upgrade from the wa22, both will be on my list to consider but I personallly just dislike car salesman like picking at other products.


----------



## Wapiti

koiloco said:


> I personallly just dislike car salesman like picking at other products.


 
 Agreed.
  
 I hope everyone understands my questions are out of curiosity, not as an attempt to fan the flames.
  
 I have, and enjoy, a WA-5.  I have been curious as to why there are two rectifiers.


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> Well, let's let the 2 designers/builders duke it out and take it elsewhere. This is a woo appreciation thread. When I m ready to upgrade from the wa22, both will be on my list to consider but I personallly just dislike car salesman like picking at other products.




You probably kind of new here, we discuss and welcome almost all topics as long as no personal attacks.


----------



## koiloco

Is that the thread's custom?  If so, go right ahead.  I found that in other appreciation threads, people don't seem to like it.  I don't mind as long as both sides keep it the way it should be.  Either way, it's kind of hard not to take things personal (from Woo's point of view, not mine) when reading negative things being said by another designer/builder about the double rectifier design in the WA5/LE.  Yes, it might just be one person view point but no doubt it will cast doubt on people who are potentially looking into WA5/LE as the next upgrade including myself.  Pure technical debate?  Sure, if you say so. Personal gain from bringing up such point?  why not.  I am just stating what I see and take from the post.  No more no less...


----------



## jc9394

I knew about the issue and still buy a WA5LE. I rather know about it than not know about it.

The reason this thread is so sucessful is we are a brunch of friendly woo owner or not woo owner.


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> I knew about the issue and still buy a WA5LE. I rather know about it than not know about it.
> 
> The reason this thread is so sucessful is we are a brunch of friendly woo owner or not woo owner.


 
 Good enough for me.  Btw, what is your experience about the double rectifier on the WA5LE?  Any issues?  The reason I ask is because I might consider going the WA5LE route.  I find the WA22 great for dynamic HPs but not quite there for my HE500 though I am happy with the sound quality I am getting.  For only a few hundred $, if the WA5LE can drive the HE500 a touch better, I am willing to invest.
 I enjoy tube-rolling awhile back with pro-audio stuffs but honestly don't want to get back too much into that expensive habit.    I will try the WA22 with some recommended tubes to see if I can get the sound I am after.  Then, I will decide.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

did u try 7236 power tubes on high gain, enough for he-500


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> did u try 7236 power tubes on high gain, enough for he-500


 
 I  have 7236 in now but haven't listened extensively on "high" imp. setting. (that's what you refer to, right?); always been on low.  Let me try now and see.  I am talking about a very touch less in bass then what I am used to.  On my Q701 however, I find it very balanced.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

its also higher gain. u will get more power. it will work then


----------



## koiloco

^  Got it.  Thx vm.  I just tried it.  On high imp. settin, there's indeed an increase in the low range but it also changes the overall sound and makes it a touch less relaxing to my ears.  A trade-off, I guess.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

should be a little fuller sounding actually, though maybe the amp isn''t fully burned in, you just got it recently, right?
  
 also what other tubes are you running?


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> should be a little fuller sounding actually, though maybe the amp isn''t fully burned in, you just got it recently, right?
> 
> also what other tubes are you running?


 
 Today, it is 5 day old.  
 Sophia princess rectifier, 7236 upgrade tubes from Jack.  The drivers are still stock.  I am looking for some good driver tubes to get a fuller bottom end and maybe a touch more air in the mid.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> Today, it is 5 day old.
> Sophia princess rectifier, 7236 upgrade tubes from Jack.  The drivers are still stock.  I am looking for some good driver tubes to get a fuller bottom end and maybe a touch more air in the mid.


 
  
 ah yeah the sophia, good tube.
  
 i wish i got to roll around more drivers. i liked my rca grey glass 6sn7, the 6f8g where nice but noisy.


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> Today, it is 5 day old.
> Sophia princess rectifier, 7236 upgrade tubes from Jack.  The drivers are still stock.  I am looking for some good driver tubes to get a fuller bottom end and maybe a touch more air in the mid.


 

 I don't think Sophia will give WA22 justice at all.  I sold it soon after I acquired EML and other NOS tubes.  The stock drivers tubes are totally crappy, the overall sound presentation and signature will change after the amp break in and with better tubes.
  
 As far as you questions on dual rectifiers on WA5LE, I do not have any issues.  The few incidents I heard and knew about it is we start rolling more power demanding drivers tubes, eg. ECC32, then the Sophia and EML cannot handle it.  The 596/5U4GB, will handle more demanding drivers tubes better.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> ah yeah the sophia, good tube.
> 
> i wish i got to roll around more drivers. i liked my rca grey glass 6sn7, the 6f8g where nice but noisy.


 

 I think is more of your adapters grid wire positions on the noisy 6F8G, they are definitely not as quiet as normal 6SN7.


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> Today, it is 5 day old.
> Sophia princess rectifier, 7236 upgrade tubes from Jack.  The drivers are still stock.  I am looking for some good driver tubes to get a fuller bottom end and maybe a touch more air in the mid.


 
  
  
 The WA22 will be fully burn in about 250ish hours.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw i was looking at my 7236 tubes. does anyone know if jack still sells sylvania 7236?
  
 i just noticed how different the sylvania and tung sol 7236 look. the plates are like completely different and the tung sol 7236 are taller too.


----------



## GrindingThud

I think http://www.vacuumtubes.net still has some at reasonable prices. That's where I got my last one from.



dubstep girl said:


> btw i was looking at my 7236 tubes. does anyone know if jack still sells sylvania 7236?
> 
> i just noticed how different the sylvania and tung sol 7236 look. the plates are like completely different and the tung sol 7236 are taller too.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> btw i was looking at my 7236 tubes. does anyone know if jack still sells sylvania 7236?
> 
> i just noticed how different the sylvania and tung sol 7236 look. the plates are like completely different and the tung sol 7236 are taller too.


 

 My 2 cents and I think MH's too if I remember correctly, the TS are better in every way.  Save your money for BL63.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grindingthud said:


> I think http://www.vacuumtubes.net still has some at reasonable prices. That's where I got my last one from.


 
 ah ok yeah thats the only place i knew had them at a good price.
  
 just curious.
  
 didn't need any yet though. i have 2 pairs of the sylvania and 2 tung sol. i was worried though cause i know the sylvania had been used quite a bit before.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> My 2 cents and I think MH's too if I remember correctly, the TS are better in every way.  Save your money for BL63.


 
  
 ah yes, the MWT BL63. aren't they different than 6F8G/6SN7 though? like less power?


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> My 2 cents and I think MH's too if I remember correctly, the TS are better in every way.  Save your money for BL63.


 
 Agreed on the TS vs. Slyvanias.


----------



## jc9394

Not an exact replacements but I'm very interested in them too.
  
 Did you look into ECC32?


----------



## dminches

The ECC32s are my favorite tubes when I can substitute them for 6SN7s.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> The ECC32s are my favorite tubes when I can substitute them for 6SN7s.


 
  
 On WA5?  Choose the rectifiers carefully, dannie01 has his EML died prematurely because of this.  Soon after the ECC32 dies too.


----------



## dminches

No, on my DAC.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> Agreed on the TS vs. Slyvanias.


 

 wow, every time I mention MH or GS-X you are here, is this a code set off an alarm?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How are GTA lately?    I need to visit soon, need some good Asian and Indian food...


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> No, on my DAC.


 
 how it compare to bgrp?


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> wow, every time I mention MH or GS-X you are here, is this a code set off an alarm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just trolling the threads. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A bit cold here in Hogtown now. Getting to the lower 30s at night.


----------



## magiccabbage

macedonianhero said:


> Just trolling the threads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 and no woo to jeep you warm - what a shame


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> Just trolling the threads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is not that bad, you guys are used to it.  I will definitely heading up north next year to take night Toronto landscape from Centre Island.  there are few Japanese restaurants I need to visit too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

magiccabbage said:


> and no woo to jeep you warm - what a shame


 
 True....tubes do fill that void.
  


jc9394 said:


> That is not that bad, you guys are used to it.  I will definitely heading up north next year to take night Toronto landscape from Centre Island.  there are few Japanese restaurants I need to visit too.


 
 Best view of the city from Centre Island. I took this one back in 2008.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> 5AR4 sound totally different from Sophia, way more dynamic.


 
  
 I mistyped.
  
 My 'Mazda' valve is a 5R4GY. Any thoughts on that vs PS Sophia. I still can't tell the difference.


----------



## jc9394

Never tried 5r4gy before.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> True....tubes do fill that void.
> 
> Best view of the city from Centre Island. I took this one back in 2008.


 
  
 Yep, was there lads year but did not have my camera with me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

5r4gy seemed a little too warm with the WA6-SE, the brimar was good but very slow, the philips was nice but a little too warm, they tend to sound tubey and lush but nice.
  
 for people looking for that kinda sound, a good alternative to sophia.


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> 5r4gy seemed a little too warm with the WA6-SE, the brimar was good but very slow, the philips was nice but a little too warm, they tend to sound tubey and lush but nice.
> 
> for people looking for that kinda sound, a good alternative to Sophia.


 
  
 Yep. pretty much how I felt it, very similar to Sophia (at a much lower entry price point). The princess does seem to be a bit wider and more spacious but still the same warm tubey goodness.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

have u tried out a EML 274B, at least with the WA22, it was much nicer than sophia.


----------



## GloryUprising

dubstep girl said:


> have u tried out a EML 274B, at least with the WA22, it was much nicer than sophia.


 
  
 I like the true weaved construction of the EML verson... but it's still $100 more then the PS Sophia.... AND I live close to Sophia Electric's base so I got a good deal from them....
  
 One day when 596 prices catch up with the EMLs I may give it a try.  At this rate it may be sooner then later


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gloryuprising said:


> I like the true weaved construction of the EML verson... but it's still $100 more then the PS Sophia.... AND I live close to Sophia Electric's base so I got a good deal from them....
> 
> One day when 596 prices catch up with the EMLs I may give it a try.  At this rate it may be sooner then later


 
  
 the 596 is quite nice, especially with audeze headphones.


----------



## koiloco

Where can I get an adapter for the 596?  Anyone you all have dealt with before?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

koiloco said:


> Where can I get an adapter for the 596?  Anyone you all have dealt with before?


 
 Jack sells them.  You can also get them from Glenn, I think.


----------



## GloryUprising

koiloco said:


> Where can I get an adapter for the 596?  Anyone you all have dealt with before?




I've both adaptor and I think the edge goes to Glenns. Send him a pm.


----------



## koiloco

Thx guys!  appreciate it.  The next 596 that pops up on ebay, I will try to watch and bid for it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gloryuprising said:


> I've both adaptor and I think the edge goes to Glenns. Send him a pm.


 
 +1


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> +1


 
 Great to know!  If i am lucky enough to end up with a 596, I would definitely PM Glenns.  I am getting a good set of driver tube first.  Watching couple RCA grey glass listings right now.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw if u have the money.
  
 the metal base mullard GZ34 is better than the 596. similar sound, more dynamic and effortless sounding. 
  
 and the Western electric 422A is the absolute best. same improvements like GZ34 but much more holographic, transparent, and tonally the most natural and emotional sounding, brings a sort of surreal beauty to the music


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> how it compare to bgrp?


 
  
 I think the ECC32s are a little more dynamic than the BGRPs.  They are both great tubes.  The ECC32s also play louder (not that that is good or bad), but the mu is much higher.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> I think the ECC32s are a little more dynamic than the BGRPs.  They are both great tubes.  The ECC32s also play louder (not that that is good or bad), but the mu is much higher.


 
  
  
 Yeah, I remember the mu is much higher that is taxing the WA5 rectifiers.  I wanted to get a pair but at the time I don't have GZ34.


----------



## Frank I

I  am a buyaholic. I just sent a check to Beyer for the T1 again for the review sample they sent me for the A20. Sounds excellent with the WA5 and also the GSX Mk11 I have here for review.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> I  am a buyaholic. I just sent a check to Beyer for the T1 again for the review sample they sent me for the A20. Sounds excellent with the WA5 and also the GSX Mk11 I have here for review.


 
  
 Send all your review sample to Cambridge, MA please.


----------



## Silent One

Wrong coast.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Wrong coast.


 
  
 You can ride over, it is only 3,000+ miles...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> You can ride over, it is only 3,000+ miles...


 
  
 Someday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe I'll be fit to... I know good music would certainly help!
  
 www.raceacrossamerica.org (RAAM)


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Send all your review sample to Cambridge, MA please.


 
 LOL then you could write the check. Back account getting  low


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> I  am a buyaholic. I just sent a check to Beyer for the T1 again for the review sample they sent me for the A20. Sounds excellent with the WA5 and also the GSX Mk11 I have here for review.


 
  
 T1 is my favorite with the GSX MK2. 
  
 sounds even better than WA2, though i like the way the WA2 does the bass and tonality of the T1, makes it very musical and fun to listen to.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> I  am a buyaholic. I just sent a check to Beyer for the T1 again for the review sample they sent me for the A20. Sounds excellent with the WA5 and also the GSX Mk11 I have here for review.


 
 Frank frank frank - you will have to do GSX MK2 and WA5 comparisons!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> T1 is my favorite with the GSX MK2.
> 
> sounds even better than WA2, though i like the way the WA2 does the bass and tonality of the T1, makes it very musical and fun to listen to.


 
 really??


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> T1 is my favorite with the GSX MK2.
> 
> sounds even better than WA2, though i like the way the WA2 does the bass and tonality of the T1, makes it very musical and fun to listen to.


 
 I like it on all three amps I have here now. The WA5,GSX MK11 ands the Conductor SL all do a great job with the T1. I am working on the conductor now and will be writing that one in a couple of weeks for a november review in Part time Audiophile and then tech GSX for probable January


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> I like it on all three amps I have here now. The WA5,GSX MK11 ands the Conductor SL all do a great job with the T1. I am working on the conductor now and will be writing that one in a couple of weeks for a november review in Part time Audiophile and then tech GSX for probable January


 
  
 Don't send the MKII back to Justin, just send it to me and I will have my paypal payment ready...


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> I like it on all three amps I have here now. The WA5,GSX MK11 ands the Conductor SL all do a great job with the T1. I am working on the conductor now and will be writing that one in a couple of weeks for a november review in Part time Audiophile and then tech GSX for probable January


 
 but how does your Wa5 compare to the GSX? That is the real question.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> but how does your Wa5 compare to the GSX? That is the real question.


 
 Two different  amplifiers . One is solid state and the other a tube and speaker amp.  For the hE6 no contest,the WA5 has more power and sound more open and less strained on the HE6.  i am  really too early to see how it does compare to the  more expensive WA5  but all that will be in the review when it is done in January.
  
 I like the GSX MK 11. All amps I have in house are excellent right now including the Conductor SL and the Beyer A20 I just finished reviewing, What you find in higher end amplifiers the differences are more subtle than dramatic.   I want to keep one solid state amp to go with the WA5 .


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> but how does your Wa5 compare to the GSX? That is the real question.


 
  
 They are different, it is almost like apple and oranges.  The GSX-MKII is gain on a wire while WA5 has it's signature.  They are both very very good amps.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats, Frank! Jack Wu paid you quite the compliment in the Philly Meet Thread...


----------



## Frank I

silent one said:


> Congrats, Frank! Jack Wu paid you quite the compliment in the Philly Meet Thread...


 
 Thanks. It was a fun meet and it was nice. Looking forward to the NY meet another chance to get home having Jack drives down from Brooklyn with his mono-blocks. Looking forward to the NY meet and seeing so good friends nov 9th


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> Two different  amplifiers . One is solid state and the other a tube and speaker amp.  For the hE6 no contest,the WA5 has more power and sound more open and less strained on the HE6.  i am  really too early to see how it does compare to the  more expensive WA5  but all that will be in the review when it is done in January.
> 
> I like the GSX MK 11. All amps I have in house are excellent right now including the Conductor SL and the Beyer A20 I just finished reviewing, What you find in higher end amplifiers the differences are more subtle than dramatic.   I want to keep one solid state amp to go with the WA5 .




Ive found the he-6 to sound a little closed in as well with the gsx mk2. It drives it well, and it gets loud enough, bass is great, just the mids seem a little closed in like they need a little more power to really open up. How much volume headroom is there on the wa5? Seems like it would provide about the same power as gsx, maybe a little more


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> Ive found the he-6 to sound a little closed in as well with the gsx mk2. It drives it well, and it gets loud enough, bass is great, just the mids seem a little closed in like they need a little more power to really open up. How much volume headroom is there on the wa5? Seems like it would provide about the same power as gsx, maybe a little more


 
 I go to the 9 position the the WA5 and its  loud if I go to 12 it  is very loud. To get the same level on the GSX I have to go to 3Pm on a clock dial which would be equivalent to 9 and even at mass volume it still no where near as loud levels as th eWA5 is on the 12. The WA5 drives them so much better than the GSX which was one of the reason why I bought the WA5,\\. All other headphones are driven easily on the GSX and sound good.


----------



## bowtung

Does anyone have any experience with upgrading internal parts in WA2 or any tube amps???
  
 Ever since I moved to China, I've seen quite a lot of diy tube amps and activities here, I've recently located a shop that does modifications for tube amps, but I have no experience at all in modifications.
  
 I read somewhere that you can change the M-caps, does anyone know what parts inside the wa2 can be upgraded? I've a wa2 purchased February with a switch on the back for preamp out or headphone out.
  
 The wa2 is a gorgeous amp that pairs great with my T1, I just want to squeeze every single possible performance out of it before I upgrade to my next amp. 
  
 Many thanks


----------



## GrindingThud

This is a good start:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/94853/woo3-modified


----------



## bowtung

grindingthud said:


> This is a good start:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/94853/woo3-modified


 
 Thanks!!! I am currently thinking of getting blackgates or german mcaps, some good quality resistors and a stepped volume control if possible


----------



## musicman59

frank i said:


> I am not sure that it does, The LE puts out 1.5 watts  so I  don't think it will drive them properly. Jack recommended the WA5 for the he6 today but likes the lCD 3 on the regular section instead of the  XLR. I use the he6 on the XLR and I know Jose has the lE iand he said they are OK but n=he using the Pass amp to drive his HE6.  I.5watts is not optimum to drive the he6 properly especially for classical recordings with huge dynamic range.


 
  
 You are correct Frank. The WA5-LE drives fine the HE-6 but for some reason (I think is higher current) they sound better to me out of the High Impedance output even that they are 50 ohms. Also, it depends of the driver tubes. I think the Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top are the best for them.
  
 I normally drive the HE-6 with a Threshold T50 (50 watts/ch @ 8 ohms Class A). With the T50 they sound incredible a the same level of the Dark Star.
  
 It is clear to me that the WA5-LE is borderline adequate (even that they sound good) and I have no doubt the WA5 is much much better for them out of the K1K output.


----------



## musicman59

frank i said:


> Glenn I hane not had one issue with any 5U4G in the Woo and this amps been here for months. Not a single issue with any of  the tube  I have been using in my WA5. Not one tube  has failed since I have owned this amplifier.


 
  
 I have had my WA5-LE for 3 1/2 years and (knock on wood) I have never had any issues or blown rectifiers. I have used EML 5U4G Mesh, RCA 5U4G, Brimar 5R4GY, Mullard GZ37, USAF 596 and others.


----------



## musicman59

frank i said:


> I  am a buyaholic. I just sent a check to Beyer for the T1 again for the review sample they sent me for the A20. Sounds excellent with the WA5 and also the GSX Mk11 I have here for review.


 
  
 The T1 are a great match with the WA5 and LE. Those are the ones I used when I fell in love the WA5 (LE) back in CanJam 2010. I never have heard the T1 sounding better than with the WA5 (LE). Congrats Frank! (go with a Zeus for even better sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> I have had my WA5-LE for 3 1/2 years and (knock on wood) I have never had any issues or blown rectifiers. I have used EML 5U4G Mesh, RCA 5U4G, Brimar 5R4GY, Mullard GZ37, USAF 596 and others.


 
  
 Blown rectifiers is when you use more demanding drivers tubes like Mullard ECC32 with EML 5U4G/274B or Sophia 274B mesh.  Keeping normal 6SN7 or 6F8G drivers you will not have any issues.


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> Blown rectifiers is when you use more demanding drivers tubes like Mullard ECC32 with EML 5U4G/274B or Sophia 274B mesh.  Keeping normal 6SN7 or 6F8G drivers you will not have any issues.


 
 I have a pair of Mullard ECC32 and have used them with no problems.


----------



## Frank I

musicman59 said:


> The T1 are a great match with the WA5 and LE. Those are the ones I used when I fell in love the WA5 (LE) back in CanJam 2010. I never have heard the T1 sounding better than with the WA5 (LE). Congrats Frank! (go with a Zeus for even better sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I been listening to the T1 on the WA5 and they do sound fantastic on them. Glad i picked them up again. I also liking the t1 on the GSX


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Don't send the MKII back to Justin, just send it to me and I will have my paypal payment ready...


 
 I may beat  you to the punch


----------



## fhuang

i guess i'm a little different then.  i build(still building) my rig around T1.  i really love the wa5 with t1, like it a lot with rp010b but i hate gsx mk2 with the t1.  to simply put it, gsx made it sound like, look for the all the head-fiers' comments about how they hate the t1.  i'm not saying gsx is bad.  it sounds great with almost all of my headphones, just not the t1, or t70, or dt990.  on the other hand, wa5 just amazing with t1, and t70, and dt990.  hope to get t90 later.


----------



## Frank I

fhuang said:


> i guess i'm a little different then.  i build(still building) my rig around T1.  i really love the wa5 with t1, like it a lot with rp010b but i hate gsx mk2 with the t1.  to simply put it, gsx made it sound like, look for the all the head-fiers' comments about how they hate the t1.  i'm not saying gsx is bad.  it sounds great with almost all of my headphones, just not the t1, or t70, or dt990.  on the other hand, wa5 just amazing with t1, and t70, and dt990.  hope to get t90 later.


 
 I think everyone has different music and different hearing so thats what makes this hobby so great. I love the T1 on the WA5 and I can and have been enjoying them on the GSX MK11.  If everyone had the same taste in equipment and everyone agreed, this would be a boring forum.I for one appreciate what others feel about gear. What was it you did not like with the T1 on the GSX if I could ask?


----------



## koiloco

^ It doesn't work as a heater cuz it has no tubes?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I tried my HE500 on the GSX and liked it very much,  almost as much as Liquid Gold.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I love he-500 on gsx mk2. 

I also like my t1 on gsx mk2 pretty much the same as with the wa2


----------



## jc9394

Crap, I may head over to Japan soon but my toy budget is gone...I need this...


----------



## magiccabbage

Wow....


----------



## CH23

jc9394 said:


> Crap, I may head over to Japan soon but my toy budget is gone...I need this...


 

 i'm drooling and i don't even have a valved amp


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> Crap, I may head over to Japan soon but my toy budget is gone...I need this...


 
 replenish the toy money mine gone too


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Crap, I may head over to Japan soon but my toy budget is gone...I need this...


 
  
 I love 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a good presentation. But jc9394.... you are no good! Disrupting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




one's day with a display of forbidden fruit.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I love
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I know, it is forbidden fruit for me too now.


----------



## dminches

Where do you even buy these in the states?


----------



## jc9394

Need to sell something fast...


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Where do you even buy these in the states?


 
  
 I'm not sure but I found few places in Japan sell them.


----------



## longbowbbs

Basically a WA22 in a small box...


----------



## Silent One

What's the current asking price? Also, is it any cheaper to have them bought locally, insured & shipped or no difference in price online?


----------



## Frank I

They are $1584.00 pair form PriceJapan.com


----------



## jc9394

Nothing beats cash and carry...


----------



## musicman59

frank i said:


> They are $1584.00 pair form PriceJapan.com


 
 Man, I need a pair now!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe next year as "happy birthday to me!!"


----------



## musicman59

fhuang said:


> i guess i'm a little different then.  i build(still building) my rig around T1.  i really love the wa5 with t1, like it a lot with rp010b but i hate gsx mk2 with the t1.  to simply put it, gsx made it sound like, look for the all the head-fiers' comments about how they hate the t1.  i'm not saying gsx is bad.  it sounds great with almost all of my headphones, just not the t1, or t70, or dt990.  on the other hand, wa5 just amazing with t1, and t70, and dt990.  hope to get t90 later.


 
 Maybe you taste of sound is the warmer side. The RP010B has pretty warm sound for a SS amp ( used to own it). I can see that one matching very good with the T1 especially with the stock cable.


----------



## dminches

frank i said:


> They are $1584.00 pair form PriceJapan.com


 
  
 It seems as though people who have listened to them and the EMLs seem to prefer them (at a higher price point).  And then you have the AVVTs and the KR globes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Are they worth it? Have you heard them? I mean, you're not buying a pair because they are expensive and packaged in a wooden box, are you?


----------



## dminches

That's the problem.  I have no way to hear them.  With these expensive tubes one has to go on others' opinions which have been very positive.
  
 I think YOU need to buy a pair and then lend them to me so I can make an educated decision.
  
 Any pair I end up buying will be unheard.  I did hear Frank's EML's, but in a completely different amp.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Are they worth it? Have you heard them? I mean, you're not buying a pair because they are expensive and packaged in a wooden box, are you?


 
  
 There are few places in Japan you can audition it with Shindo Lab amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

I see. Okay. Has anyone here actually owned or heard a Western Electric 300B? I've never ever seen one in the glass nor have I ever heard one.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> I see. Okay. Has anyone here actually owned or heard a Western Electric 300B? I've never ever seen one in the glass nor have I ever heard one.


 
  
 I have heard it long long time ago but that memory was gone, all I remember is that I sit still for over an hours listening.


----------



## Frank I

dminches said:


> It seems as though people who have listened to them and the EMLs seem to prefer them (at a higher price point).  And then you have the AVVTs and the KR globes.


 
 I would not personally depend that much on a 300B personally. I would rather get the KR Balloon for this amp but would like to hear them first also. Right know I am pretty happy with the tubes i have in the WA5 and see no reason to hurry to change the. Especially when I am thinking of adding a second amp. My other room will be using a 2A3 amplifier for speaker only and a 5W SEP Headphone/speaker amp that is here now so  I thnk I am amped out . When I add the amplifiers I want and they are all in house now I am finished with my projects.


----------



## Frank I

musicman59 said:


> The T1 are a great match with the WA5 and LE. Those are the ones I used when I fell in love the WA5 (LE) back in CanJam 2010. I never have heard the T1 sounding better than with the WA5 (LE). Congrats Frank! (go with a Zeus for even better sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks buddy. I  hav enow ones the T1 three times. LOL I love them on the WA5 and like them also on the GSX MK11 that in the house.


----------



## Frank I

musicman59 said:


> Man, I need a pair now!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe if I do really well wight he shows I am organizing I guess i should never say never but thats a steep price for a tube set.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> I would not personally depend that much on a 300B personally. I would rather get the KR Balloon for this amp but would like to hear them first also. Right know I am pretty happy with the tubes i have in the WA5 and see no reason to hurry to change the. Especially when I am thinking of adding a second amp. My other room will be using a 2A3 amplifier for speaker only and a 5W SEP Headphone/speaker amp that is here now so  I thnk I am amped out . When I add the amplifiers I want and they are all in house now I am finished with my projects.


 
 I've heard that before!


----------



## Frank I

dminches said:


> It seems as though people who have listened to them and the EMLs seem to prefer them (at a higher price point).  And then you have the AVVTs and the KR globes.


 
 They are 3 time the EML cost.  I think right now I am pretty happy with my amos. if i want buying two more amps and another pair of speaker then maybe I would think about it. The wallet is dry again and I don't want to sell anything and I would also  like to add the lCD X to the stable.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> I've heard that before!


 
 Unless someone drops a windfall of money I am totally all in with dollars. I have to add another 5k or so of gear and need to find out how to juggle that without selling anything else.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Speaking of $5k, Jack is now apparently a reseller for Abyss headphones.  Only $5495 and you get a free Woo Audio headphone stand!
  
 http://wooaudio.com/headphones/abyss/abyss-AB-1266.html


----------



## dminches

I listened to them on Saturday, being driven by the WA234 monoblocks.  I didn't walk away saying "wow."  I don't recall anyone else.  The HE-6s and LCD-3s on Frank's WA5 sounded better.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

I listened to them this summer at the CA Audio Show through a Cavalli amp (Liquid Glass, maybe?).  They sounded good, but the LCD-3 paired with an EC Balancing Act sounded better, imho.  Neither set up touched the Stax007/WES combo.


----------



## koiloco

^ You meant the 009 driven by Blue Hawaii?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  that sound signature still haunts me till today.  It was insanely incredible!


----------



## fhuang

musicman59 said:


> Maybe you taste of sound is the warmer side. The RP010B has pretty warm sound for a SS amp ( used to own it). I can see that one matching very good with the T1 especially with the stock cable.


 
  
 i guess so, especially the t1.  without the warmth, i think the t1 sound lifeless.  and i have my recable to black dragon, which is a copper cable, so somewhat similar to the stock cable?


----------



## jc9394

galaxyguy said:


> Speaking of $5k, Jack is now apparently a reseller for Abyss headphones.  Only $5495 and you get a free Woo Audio headphone stand!
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/headphones/abyss/abyss-AB-1266.html


 
 For $5.5k, I would like an amp to got with it.  No way I'm buying a headphone for that price.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> For $5.5k, I would like an amp to got with it.  No way I'm buying a headphone for that price.


 
 yea its one of the ugliest things around as well. Rotten ugly. Does anyone actually like the thing


----------



## fhuang

frank i said:


> I think everyone has different music and different hearing so thats what makes this hobby so great. I love the T1 on the WA5 and I can and have been enjoying them on the GSX MK11.  If everyone had the same taste in equipment and everyone agreed, this would be a boring forum.I for one appreciate what others feel about gear. What was it you did not like with the T1 on the GSX if I could ask?


 
  
 gsx just made the t1 too cold?  too much details?  too much everything except not being musical?  i don't really know.  just i don't like it a lot.  i tried with a different source, a tube cd player, still, it didn't sound right with t1.  or maybe time to upgrade the source(s). 
  
 forgot, i really love hd800 with gsx


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> For $5.5k, I would like an amp to got with it.  No way I'm buying a headphone for that price.


 
  
  
 ed5?


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> Nothing beats cash and carry...


 
  
  
 i thought about getting them since i was in tokyo couple weeks ago but i remember someone, from a hong kong audio forum, saying not easy to get them in japan(tokyo?).  most audio shops don't carry them.  so i didn't bother.  maybe i'll try again next year?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I really like T1 with gsx mk2. 

And yesh i prefer audeze and hifiman planars over abyss as well. It sounds terrible


----------



## koiloco

DSG, so your WA22 is gone?  Have you decided on which amp to get yet?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Nothing beats cash and carry...


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> I see. Okay. Has anyone here actually owned or heard a Western Electric 300B? I've never ever seen one in the glass nor have I ever heard one.


 
  
 I can answer that question tomorrow night...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I can answer that question tomorrow night...


 

 full report please. nos or reissue?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> full report please. nos or reissue?


 
  
 Shindo Laboratory has NOS WE 300Bs for their 300B amps. Going to p/u my stuff tomorrow afternoon and will be in-session listening to the other gears in the studio...


----------



## Clayton SF

silent one said:


> I can answer that question tomorrow night...


 

 OMG OMG MOG GAM ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yes my wa22 is gone, undecided on my next amp, but i got a hell of a lot of 5u4g and 6as7g tubes....


----------



## koiloco

I will buy back some from u if u have extra to spare.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

perhaps, if i need to sell some in the future.
  
 for now, i'm happy having a pretty solid collection of 6AS7G and 5U4G that i can tube roll any amp that uses it to my liking.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> perhaps, if i need to sell some in the future.
> 
> for now, i'm happy having a pretty solid collection of 6AS7G and 5U4G that i can tube roll any ampthat uses it to my liking.


 
 you should have the glenn otl soon?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes.


----------



## Dennis SK

Hello all!
  
 I hope I could get a little advice about my (soon to be) setup and prefered specs.
 I own the HD800 and hope to keep the great detail/clarity/soundstage of them but with a more "smooth, tamed treble/high"
  
 I listen to a great variety of music like classical, pop(Michael Jackson yes please!) some dance/techno etc.
 I also enjoy watching movies and gaming with my HD800
  
 Would I be set by getting a WA2 or for that matter a WA22? And how do WA2/WA22 compare?
 Can anyone give advice on what exstra tubes to choose (if needed)
  
 Currently I have a Dacmagic plus and I'm not really satisfied with the sound of it.
  
 And are there anyone here that have tried to setup the WA amps with a computer DAC like Xonar series from asus? (I know this may not be the best choice but I would just like to know if its possible to make it "work")
  
 I know theres alot of subjective areas in this but hope some helpful souls will give me some advice.
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## Clayton SF

dubstep girl said:


> Yes my wa22 is gone, undecided on my next amp, but i got a hell of a lot of 5u4g and 6as7g tubes....


 

 What are you listening to in the meantime?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

clayton sf said:


> What are you listening to in the meantime?


 
  
 just GSX MK2, switching between all my headphones. i've been listening alot to LCD-3 though.


----------



## Silent One

clayton sf said:


> OMG OMG MOG GAM ...


 
  
 I'm sitting in with Matt @ 1400 hours. I prefer evening but it's Halloween. And I don't wanna wait a-n-y longer till another evening fits his schedule, so the afternoon it is! Though, you'd be the exception - between your vinyl collection and his, y'all would be there till midnight.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Hey guys, I had a question for you all about current production tubes. I'm a bit anal and like the idea of using current production (even though the price is higher) for the comfort of knowing I can always get more later.

 Anyway with that out of the way, I'm looking to get a WA5-LE, so what are your guys' picks for 274B, 300B, and 6SN7 current production? I know that for 274B and 300B people seem to like Sophia, EAT, and Psvane/Shuggies. Is there any reason you prefer one over the other? Sound stage differences, price, longevity, anything to differentiate? (I know they don't all make 274B AND 300B, but they seem to be the top contenders...let me know if I'm wrong).

 I'm also mostly in the dark regarding 6SN7 current production. The only thing I know of is Shuggies with their CV-181-Z. Is there anything else, or is this the way to go?

 Also, where do you guys like to buy your current production?

 Thanks so much for putting up with me, I appreciate any answers I get


----------



## jc9394

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hey guys, I had a question for you all about current production tubes. I'm a bit anal and like the idea of using current production (even though the price is higher) for the comfort of knowing I can always get more later.
> 
> Anyway with that out of the way, I'm looking to get a WA5-LE, so what are your guys' picks for 274B, 300B, and 6SN7 current production? I know that for 274B and 300B people seem to like Sophia, EAT, and Psvane/Shuggies. Is there any reason you prefer one over the other? Sound stage differences, price, longevity, anything to differentiate? (I know they don't all make 274B AND 300B, but they seem to be the top contenders...let me know if I'm wrong).
> 
> ...


 
  
 NOS tubes will last very long time, if you don't roll tubes as much you can get two set of the very best tubes and they will last longer than the amp.  Not saying WA5LE will not last you forever.
  
 NOS, I personally prefer EML 5U4G and 300B mesh over regular Sophia's offering.  I have not tried the Carbon Princess yet.  It is the sound signature, details, and soundstage, the EML just do everything better.
  
 The only current production 6SN7 I tried is the Shuggies CV181Z and I like them but just not as much as NOS' offering.
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ 

+1 good current production offerings, but nos is better.

a single pair of metal mullard gz34s will last forever, any nos tube thats strong will last a long time as well. also some current production tubes arent as durable and depending on the amp, can have a shorter lifetime.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> NOS tubes will last very long time, if you don't roll tubes as much you can get two set of the very best tubes and they _*will last longer than the amp.*_  Not saying WA5LE will not last you forever.


 
  
 Does anyone know how long caps and other amp components last before they need to be replaced. I here that caps will eventually dry up and not sound good anymore.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Does anyone know how long caps and other amp components last before they need to be replaced. I here that caps will eventually dry up and not sound good anymore.


 
  
 Good question, I want to know too.  My vintage Marantz receivers from late 70s, early 80s still sound very good.  Better than some new SS amps I tried.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> ^
> 
> +1 good current production offerings, but nos is better.
> 
> a single pair of metal mullard gz34s will last forever, any nos tube thats strong will last a long time as well. also some current production tubes arent as durable and depending on the amp, can have a shorter lifetime.


 
  
 I think all military spec tubes will last forever if properly taken care of.  I think power on, off, on, and off in short period of time will kill any tubes.  I'm religious not to turn off the amp at least it is on for at least an hour.  If I'm only have time for a quick listen, I will just use SS amp.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Good question, I want to know too.  My vintage Marantz receivers from late 70s, early 80s still sound very good.  Better than some new SS amps I tried.


 
  
 I had my late 70s Sansui _benched. _Visually, the Tech reported all of the caps looked very good. And their numbers were very good and well within spec leaning towards new.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

jc9394 said:


> NOS tubes will last very long time, if you don't roll tubes as much you can get two set of the very best tubes and they will last longer than the amp.  Not saying WA5LE will not last you forever.
> 
> NOS, I personally prefer EML 5U4G and 300B mesh over regular Sophia's offering.  I have not tried the Carbon Princess yet.  It is the sound signature, details, and soundstage, the EML just do everything better.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your advice. Aren't EMLs current production? How do you feel about 5U4G vs. 274B?

 Which 6SN7 did you like better than Shuggies?

 Thank you!
  


dubstep girl said:


> ^
> 
> +1 good current production offerings, but nos is better.
> 
> a single pair of metal mullard gz34s will last forever, any nos tube thats strong will last a long time as well. also some current production tubes arent as durable and depending on the amp, can have a shorter lifetime.


 
 I have read that stuff like the Sophia dies early, yeah. But I guess the way I see it I prefer to be able to continuously buy stuff instead of worry that supply will dry up.

 Do you personally like the Mullard as a rectifier over other offerings, or just commenting on longevity?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Thanks for your advice. Aren't EMLs current production? How do you feel about 5U4G vs. 274B?
> 
> Which 6SN7 did you like better than Shuggies?
> 
> ...


 
  
 my sophia lasted a long time in WA6-SE and never died, i sold it and it should still be going strong. it just depends on the amp, i've heard of EML tubes lasting less than 500 hours (few months), some have used them for years without issues.
  
 mullard just commenting on longevity. they [GZ34] last forever, like literally, i think i remember seeing somewhere that they have like 100,000 hour lifetime or something crazy like that.
 they do sound good, the metal base does at least. but theres other nice tubes around as well.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

dubstep girl said:


> my sophia lasted a long time in WA6-SE and never died, i sold it and it should still be going strong. it just depends on the amp, i've heard of EML tubes lasting less than 500 hours (few months), some have used them for years without issues.




Noted thanks. So then what should I look for with NOS if I were to go that route? It just seems risky to me given that supply can and will dry up. 

Does NOS generally outperform current production, or is it just preferred because they can be cheap? Perhaps a mix of NOS and current production is optimal?


----------



## jc9394

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Thanks for your advice. Aren't EMLs current production? How do you feel about 5U4G vs. 274B?
> 
> Which 6SN7 did you like better than Shuggies?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Early production of Sophia did have issue of longevity, not lasting for more than a year.  Jack did spoke to Sophia and we did get portion credit or they replace it with newer production.  I have my Sophia replaced and the new one lasted me over an year before I sold it. EML are current production and they have been proved to be very good sounding tubes.  EML does have longevity issue too in the early production, they have since changed just like Sophia.  Unlike Sophia, I do not have any issues with both EML 274B and EML 5U4G.
  
 5U4G - dynamic, details, and soundstage depth
 274B - one word "romantic" 
  
 If you are getting tubes for WA5/LE, here are my recommendation.
  
 Rectifier - 596 or EML 5U4G
 Driver - TS 6SN7 BGRP or Brimar CV 1988
 Power - EML 300B


----------



## jc9394

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Noted thanks. So then what should I look for with NOS if I were to go that route? It just seems risky to me given that supply can and will dry up.
> 
> Does NOS generally outperform current production, or is it just *preferred because they can be cheap*? Perhaps a mix of NOS and current production is optimal?


 
  
 Most NOS are more expensive. They do sound better than most current production.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Noted thanks. So then what should I look for with NOS if I were to go that route? It just seems risky to me given that supply can and will dry up.
> 
> Does NOS generally outperform current production, or is it just preferred because they can be cheap? Perhaps a mix of NOS and current production is optimal?


 
  
 umm, just a good credible seller and that the tube tests well and appears to be in good shape.
  
 and yes, they generally outperform current production, they just don't make them like they used to. they can be cheap to very expensive. i think generally, most NOS, especially the rare varieties, are much better than current production. very few current productions come close, the EML and Sophia are nice and sound as good as a good NOS, but theres some that still sound better. and NOS can be found either much better and more expensive, or similar performance, slightly better for much cheaper.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

jc9394 said:


> Early production of Sophia did have issue of longevity, not lasting for more than a year.  Jack did spoke to Sophia and we did get portion credit or they replace it with newer production.  I have my Sophia replaced and the new one lasted me over an year before I sold it. EML are current production and they have been proved to be very good sounding tubes.  EML does have longevity issue too in the early production, they have since changed just like Sophia.  Unlike Sophia, I do not have any issues with both EML 274B and EML 5U4G.
> 
> 5U4G - dynamic, details, and soundstage depth
> 274B - one word "romantic"
> ...




Thanks for the notice about longevity. Why did you replace your Sophia with EML? I take it you enjoy the EML more since you recommended it at the bottom. 

Have you tried the offerings from Shuguang or Psvane? What do you think of them?


----------



## jc9394

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Thanks for the notice about longevity. Why did you replace your Sophia with EML? I take it you enjoy the EML more since you recommended it at the bottom.
> 
> Have you tried the offerings from Shuguang or Psvane? What do you think of them?


 

 I replaced the Sophia with 596 on my WA5LE, I have not replace the Sophia 300B to EML 300B yet.  I need to save up before placing the order.  EML sounded better than Sophia in every way, soundstage, details...
  
 The WA5/LE comes with Shuguang 300B, I do not like it a bit.  If I have not tried others, it probably be ok for a while.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

jc9394 said:


> I replaced the Sophia with 596 on my WA5LE, I have not replace the Sophia 300B to EML 300B yet.  I need to save up before placing the order.  EML sounded better than Sophia in every way, soundstage, details...
> 
> The WA5/LE comes with Shuguang 300B, I do not like it a bit.  If I have not tried others, it probably be ok for a while.


Thanks for everything, I appreciate it  Can't wait to get my hands on these!


----------



## Wapiti

Anyone try the Genalex - Gold Lion PX 300B?
  
 How about the KR balloon?


----------



## jc9394

I want to try the KR ballon...the price is not bad. It has higher gain, I need to confirm with Jack to make sure it work with WA5LE.


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> I want to try the KR ballon...the price is not bad. It has higher gain, I need to confirm with Jack to make sure it work with WA5LE.


 
 Thats the next one on my list. Ask George at EMlL he is very helpful.  He coming to the nY meet with some tubes


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > I can answer that question tomorrow night...
> ...


 
  
 What's more humbling, being all dressed up with no place to go or actually going........ on the wrong day? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Yup, in ALL my excitement I got my appointments mixed up, and arrived at the studio. I wondered some..._ "Where is he?"_ And then waited some more... then re-read his email just before his reply came over. Our meeting
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is Saturday.
  
 But the costumes I saw walking around Hollywood....... must see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 TV!


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> Early production of Sophia did have issue of longevity, not lasting for more than a year.  Jack did spoke to Sophia and we did get portion credit or they replace it with newer production.  I have my Sophia replaced and the new one lasted me over an year before I sold it. EML are current production and they have been proved to be very good sounding tubes.  EML does have longevity issue too in the early production, they have since changed just like Sophia.  Unlike Sophia, I do not have any issues with both EML 274B and EML 5U4G.
> 
> 5U4G - dynamic, details, and soundstage depth
> 274B - one word "romantic"
> ...


 
 Totally agree with this selection of tubes. The only thing is that I would add the TS 6F8G BGRP which I actually prefer over the other two but all 3 are great.


----------



## musicman59

fhuang said:


> i guess so, especially the t1.  without the warmth, i think the t1 sound lifeless.  and i have my recable to black dragon, which is a copper cable, so somewhat similar to the stock cable?


 
 I made a direct comparison between a stock T1, T1 with Black Dragon and T1 with Zeus. IMO the stock was a little too bright, the Black Dragon was at the other side of the spectrum being a little too dark and life less and the Zeus was right in the middle. I went with the Zeus and I am very happy.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Totally agree with this selection of tubes. The only thing is that I would add the TS 6F8G BGRP which I actually prefer over the other two but all 3 are great.


 
  
 I don't disagree, I just don't like the tubes almost touching each other when using the adapters.


----------



## dminches

In my application I found the Brimar CV1988 to be a little thin sounding.


----------



## Arcamera

dennis sk said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I hope I could get a little advice about my (soon to be) setup and prefered specs.
> I own the HD800 and hope to keep the great detail/clarity/soundstage of them but with a more "smooth, tamed treble/high"
> ...


 
 I'd like to hear what some thoughts on some of these questions too.


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> In my application I found the Brimar CV1988 to be a little thin sounding.


 

 On Glenn's OTL?  I like them very much with WA22 but have not tried them on WA5LE yet.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> On Glenn's OTL?  I like them very much with WA22 but have not tried them on WA5LE yet.


 
 What are LCD2 and 3 like on the WA5LE?


----------



## dminches

jc9394 said:


> On Glenn's OTL?  I like them very much with WA22 but have not tried them on WA5LE yet.




No, in my Logitech Transporter.


----------



## dminches

magiccabbage said:


> What are LCD2 and 3 like on the WA5LE?




Superb.


----------



## Joshhh

The more you all talk about the WA5LE, the closer I get to making an impulse purchase haha. Who's gunna sell me one! 
 From what I have heard, the LCDs pair really well with the WA5 as long as the right tubes are used.


----------



## shipsupt

joshhh said:


> Who's gunna sell me one!


 
  
 Jack Woo!


----------



## Joshhh

It may come to that haha. Gunna keep my eye out on the FS forum in the mean time.


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> I don't disagree, I just don't like the tubes almost touching each other when using the adapters.


 
 Yes but the ECC32 and CV181Z are even worse that that.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Yes but the ECC32 and CV181Z are even worse that that.


 
  
  
 That is why I'm not using the Treasures with WA5LE, good thing I do not have the ECC32.


----------



## jc9394

shipsupt said:


> Jack Woo!


 
  
  


joshhh said:


> The more you all talk about the WA5LE, the closer I get to making an impulse purchase haha. Who's gunna sell me one!
> From what I have heard, the LCDs pair really well with the WA5 as long as the right tubes are used.


 
  
  


joshhh said:


> It may come to that haha. Gunna keep my eye out on the FS forum in the mean time.


 
  
  
 Maybe me, I'm still undecided on the WA5LE yet.  I do not have much time to listen lately.


----------



## Joshhh

"Maybe"
 You can't tell me that. > haha
 Now I am going to have to stare at the FS forum waiting like a little kid on Christmas.
  
 O_O


----------



## jc9394

I will post here before for sales threads.


----------



## Silent One

​
Please send your inquiries with the contact form or email to wooaudio@gmail.com

 FAX: +1 718 764 6393


 Contact Information Name: _(required)_

 Email Address: _(required)_

 Message Subject: _(required)_

 Body: _(required)_

 ​
 ​



 ​
​


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I will post here before for sales threads.


 
  
 Yeah, I like to privately screen my stuff during a "cooling period," case I change my mind.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Yeah, I like to privately screen my stuff during a "cooling period," case I change my mind.


 

 bro, we think alike...


----------



## koiloco

Anyone has much experience with 7N7 tubes? How is their SQ compared to 6SN7?


----------



## jc9394

WA5LE at day.


----------



## jc9394

WA5LE at night.


----------



## jc9394

The left 300B have abnormal glow, should I be concern?  It is only visible on the pic.


----------



## Wapiti

They are, of course, electrically equivalent. 
  
 I have happily substituted them for quite some time.  Adapters are readily available.


----------



## Clayton SF

The left tube looks normal. I have had tubes that glowed blue as well. This is a good read about the blue glow: http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Matching-and-other-tube-info/Blue-Glow


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the blue mighty 596


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> the blue mighty 596


 
  





  
 FYI
  
 In the beginning, I playfully and affectionately dubbed the USAF-596 _"Mighty"_ because it's the High-Altitude version of the 1641/RK60 tubes.


----------



## nihaomagui

yes, it's just kidding, stay tuned and see how many of us would register here.thank you


----------



## jc9394

Guess which pic is taken with P&S.


----------



## Redcarmoose

jc9394 said:


> The left 300B have abnormal glow, should I be concern?  It is only visible on the pic.


 
  

  
 Should be the same on both sides, as far as I know. Maybe it does not matter? Here is mine.
  
* *


----------



## reeltime

jc9394 said:


> NOS tubes will last very long time, if you don't roll tubes as much you can get two set of the very best tubes and they will last longer than the amp.  Not saying WA5LE will not last you forever.
> 
> NOS, I personally prefer EML 5U4G and 300B mesh over regular Sophia's offering.  I have not tried the Carbon Princess yet.  It is the sound signature, details, and soundstage, the EML just do everything better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Couldn't agree more.
  
  


> Have you tried the offerings from Shuguang or Psvane?


 
  
 I had the Shuguang 300B + 5U4G combo.  Definitely entry level compared to the EML 300B + EML 5U4G Mesh combo.  
  
 I have a pair of Mighty 596's.  I've tried them for stretches of time, but they don't bring the bass the way the EMLs do.  They do outshine the EMLs on clarity.  
  
 I've had the PSVane 181 drivers, nice, but unremarkable (they fit by the width of an index card).  I drift back to the Sylvania 6SN7 brown base every time.  The Sylvanias just sound more robust.  The PSVanes don't sound bad-- just not as good as the Sylvania.


----------



## Arcamera

Hello All, my WA2 just shipped out today! WooHoo! I've also ordered the Tung Sol 7236 power and Mullard rectifier upgrades (I'll likely be using what I have for the drivers-- Western Electric or Phillips). Looking forward to it...


----------



## magiccabbage

arcamera said:


> Hello All, my WA2 just shipped out today! WooHoo! I've also ordered the Tung Sol 7236 power and Mullard rectifier upgrades (I'll likely be using what I have for the drivers-- Western Electric or Phillips). Looking forward to it...


 
 wait till you hear hd800 and t1 on the WA2. Its amazing stuff.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

arcamera said:


> Hello All, my WA2 just shipped out today! WooHoo! I've also ordered the Tung Sol 7236 power and Mullard rectifier upgrades (I'll likely be using what I have for the drivers-- Western Electric or Phillips). Looking forward to it...


 
  
 jack wu still offers mullard rectifiers?
  
 what drivers btw? i didn't know western electric made drivers for WA2... u sure u don't mean general electric or some other company?


----------



## Arcamera

dubstep girl said:


> jack wu still offers mullard rectifiers?
> 
> what drivers btw? i didn't know western electric made drivers for WA2... u sure u don't mean general electric or some other company?


 
 His stock seems to vary on a regular basis...Er sorry, I meant the Westinghouse. (I can't spring for the more expensive Amperex he has right now). As a relative tube newbie, I'm still trying to keep all these straight.


magiccabbage said:


> wait till you hear hd800 and t1 on the WA2. Its amazing stuff.


 
 Sweet. Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

arcamera said:


> His stock seems to vary on a regular basis...Er sorry, I meant the Westinghouse. (I can't spring for the more expensive Amperex he has right now). As a relative tube newbie, I'm still trying to keep all these straight.
> Sweet. Thanks!


 
  
 oh i would of gone for the RFT EZ80 online, they're like $25 and some of the best rectifiers. as for drivers, any of the amperex are good. the orange globes, the bugle boys, and if you got the money, the PQ whites.


----------



## ru4music

arcamera said:


> Hello All, my WA2 just shipped out today! WooHoo! I've also ordered the Tung Sol 7236 power and Mullard rectifier upgrades (I'll likely be using what I have for the drivers-- Western Electric or Phillips). Looking forward to it...


 

 Welcome  to the club!  I'm enjoying mine...


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> oh i would of gone for the RFT EZ80 online, they're like $25 and some of the best rectifiers. as for drivers, any of the amperex are good. the orange globes, the bugle boys, and if you got the money, the PQ whites.


 
 did you buy another wa2


----------



## Arcamera

ru4music said:


> Welcome  to the club!  I'm enjoying mine...


 
 Thanks!
  
 By the way, since Woo amps do not come with power cords, what do people use? Any preferred cords for the Woo amps? I wonder how much of a difference they can make. I've been using a cord from an old Arcam speaker amp, and also a more beefy one that came with the Burson HA-160 that I've used before.


----------



## Frank I

I juse a Nordost Blue Heaven on my Woo WA5 and like it very much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> did you buy another wa2




Not yet


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> Not yet


 
 your getting slower LOL


----------



## musicman59

arcamera said:


> Thanks!
> 
> By the way, since Woo amps do not come with power cords, what do people use? Any preferred cords for the Woo amps? I wonder how much of a difference they can make. I've been using a cord from an old Arcam speaker amp, and also a more beefy one that came with the Burson HA-160 that I've used before.


 
 I use a WireWorld Electra in my WA5-LE and really like it. I actually use them in all my gear with the exception of my McIntosh MC601. On those I use Silver Electra.


----------



## Silent One

I use Wireworld Electra on all my gear except Shindo Labs...


----------



## LostChild1

Hey folks, 

I'm considering what my next move should be and could use your experience. 

I currently own a WA6 with GZ34 rectifier and stock 6DE7 drive tubes after my 7N7's died. It's paired with an LCD-2 and I was wondering how worthwhile an upgrade to a WA7 might be, or maybe another amp in his collection not more than ~$1000. 

Thanks for the help!


----------



## dminches

I think you would be better off with a WA6-SE if you felt the need to change.  That amp with the LCD-2 is outstanding.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dminches said:


> I think you would be better off with a WA6-SE if you felt the need to change.  That amp with the LCD-2 is outstanding.


 
  
 this!


----------



## dminches

When I saw Jack Wu last week I told him that that may be their best combination - certainly for the price.


----------



## Wapiti

I apologize if I missed any discussion, but does anyone have experience with the Philips 5R4GYS sold by Upscale Audio?


----------



## atomicbob

lostchild1 said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I'm considering what my next move should be and could use your experience.
> 
> ...



WA7 is a great sounding amp for both low and high impedance cans. If you don't want to tube roll then the WA7 is a good choice. If you delight in tube rolling the WA6-SE will be a better choice.


----------



## LostChild1

How much different is the WA6-SE from the WA6 actually? I understand it has a decoupled power supply, will this help with the faint noise I hear when turning the power on my WA6 past 11 o'clock? 
Also, if I were to sell the WA6, what is the going rate, and how exactly would I ship this heavy monster?


----------



## koiloco

Hugeeee difference to my ear. The SE is much more versatile at driving a variety of HPs well. Quite a bit more power, too.


----------



## reeltime

lostchild1 said:


> How much different is the WA6-SE from the WA6 actually? I understand it has a decoupled power supply, will this help with the faint noise I hear when turning the power on my WA6 past 11 o'clock?
> Also, if I were to sell the WA6, what is the going rate, and how exactly would I ship this heavy monster?


 
  
 They've been selling for $500 - $600 dollars on eBay.  Take the tubes out, ship them separate.  Any UPS store will do a great job of packing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wapiti said:


> I apologize if I missed any discussion, but does anyone have experience with the Philips 5R4GYS sold by Upscale Audio?


 
  
 its a nice tube. on the WA6-SE its warm and tubey sounding but well balanced. good for brighter headphones. 
  
 its a good alternative to sophia


----------



## koiloco

DSG, WE 422a are going off ebay like hot cakes.  It's freaking insane.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah i've noticed, and i've been bidding on a few but haven't bought.
  
  
 think its cause of me?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw ive noticed there isn't many of the older 50s grey plate like mine.
  
 mine is a lighter color glass, very ghostly and ethereal in appearance, with grey plates.
  
 the new ones are all darker tung sol 5998-esque plates


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> yeah i've noticed, and i've been bidding on a few but haven't bought.
> 
> 
> think its cause of me?


 
 Yup, all your fault.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Btw, RCA vt231 grey glass works great for HD800 on the WA22.  Raytheon is a little harsh.  Thx for the tip.


----------



## magiccabbage

the wa2 looked nice in the November sun, i had to take a pic.


----------



## Ultrainferno

It's so pretty, I miss it!


----------



## Mihis

It sure does look nice! Nice weather too
  
 I've been too busy to take daytime shots of my amp. But I guess pics in darkness would kinda work too Tube glow FTW
  
 I still have all my tubes laying around on my table. I'm starting to get worried about their health so I really need to start looking for some way to store them..


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> the wa2 looked nice in the November sun, i had to take a pic.


 
  
_Very nice..._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

U make me want to rebuy it now,

Hmm, would glenn otl and wa2 be a bad thing?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> U make me want to rebuy it now,
> 
> Hmm, would glenn otl and wa2 be a bad thing?


 
  
 no, go for it.


----------



## Mihis

jc9394 said:


> no, go for it.


 
  
 Hee
  
 So eeeevil
  
 But I concur. Go for it


----------



## Mihis

Ah yes. I tried Chatham's today. I really liked the sound. I had Mullard ez80's and Orange globes along with it. I had 5998's there before chatham's and I think the sound is not so lush anymore. I think it was almost too much with 5998's.
  
 Previously I tried 6dj8 A-frame amperexes there with 5998's and the sound went all dry compared to bugle boys ans orange globes.
  
 Got alot more to test. Also I have to sort out my storage system somehow...


----------



## Clayton SF

mihis said:


> Ah yes. I tried Chatham's today. I really liked the sound. I had Mullard ez80's and Orange globes along with it. I had 5998's there before chatham's and I think the sound is not so lush anymore. I think it was almost too much with 5998's.
> 
> Previously I tried 6dj8 A-frame amperexes there with 5998's and the sound went all dry compared to bugle boys ans orange globes.
> 
> Got alot more to test. Also I have to sort out my storage system somehow...


 
  
 Give it a steady diet of good old tubes and you both can't go wrong. It's a workhorse, especially with those Black Gate caps.


----------



## Mihis

What I have noticed is that I need to start looking for better recordings Or how would I say, better music?-D More acoustic and jazz I guess, stuff that normally can sound pretty boring. It gets really fun really fast with this set. It's nice to hear the plucking of the strings and other details.
  
 Not really sure about hi-rez atm. Should try some of those, but the music selection is so far from my regular diet that it's hard finding anything suitable that I'd be willing to pay 30€ for an album(or something like that).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mihis said:


> Ah yes. I tried Chatham's today. I really liked the sound. I had Mullard ez80's and Orange globes along with it. I had 5998's there before chatham's and I think the sound is not so lush anymore. I think it was almost too much with 5998's.
> 
> Previously I tried 6dj8 A-frame amperexes there with 5998's and the sound went all dry compared to bugle boys ans orange globes.
> 
> Got alot more to test. Also I have to sort out my storage system somehow...




All dry? 

Orange a frame amperex are not dry at all. A little less warm than bugles but they arent dry especially not with 5998.

Btw, chatham 6as7g right?


----------



## Silent One

Did I just read _Jazz _and _Boring_





in the same sentence? Must have been a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 typo!
  
 Mihis, I kid, I kid...




  
 Glad things are working out overseas.


----------



## Mihis

Orange globes and bugle boys are awesome. A-frames sounded a bit dry compared to them
  
 Acoustic and jazz is boring if you listen it with bad equipment And I mean compared with this set I have. With this set I have crossed the point when that stuff start to get really fun and interesting. It kinda leaps ahead quite alot when you start hearing more.


----------



## Mihis

Ah, yeah, Chatham 6as7g's. I think I leave them there for a while so I can test other tubes.
  
 Ok. last four song have belonged to: blues-rock, blues, blues aaand blues-rock


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mihis said:


> Orange globes and bugle boys are awesome. A-frames sounded a bit dry compared to them
> 
> Acoustic and jazz is boring if you listen it with bad equipment And I mean compared with this set I have. With this set I have crossed the point when that stuff start to get really fun and interesting. It kinda leaps ahead quite alot when you start hearing more.


 
 the A frame is just a little more extended in the treble and has a tighter more controlled sound, not as smooth. but i would not call them dry. they are a little leaner though, but they are also faster and have better PRaT than the bugle boys, which are warm and smooth and very open. The regular orange globes are warmer as well but not as fun as A frame.
  
  
 btw where did you find the chatham ? i've been looking for a pair for a while now.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> U make me want to rebuy it now,
> 
> Hmm, would glenn otl and wa2 be a bad thing?


 
 I dont think i could have 2 otl amps. I was gonna go for the glenn otl because i though it might be able to power the LCD2 and 3 as well but thats is not looking likely now. I would buy the WA6-SE but i dont like the look of it. I wish it could be put into one chassis its ugly having 2 separate units like that. I would love to try another tube amp for planars but there doesnt seem to be anything out there for 1500. If only jack still sold the WA4


----------



## Wapiti

dubstep girl said:


> its a nice tube [Philips 5R4GYS]. on the WA6-SE its warm and tubey sounding but well balanced. good for brighter headphones.
> 
> its a good alternative to sophia


 
 Thanks. 
  
 My pair just arrived and I just put them in my WA5.  They are barely warm so no impressions yet.


----------



## Frank I

I am going to try the EML 5U4G in the WA5 also Saturday at the NY meet to see how they sound in comparison too the 596 tubes. I am looking for a couple of 596 if anyone want to sell some


----------



## playitloud

dubstep girl said:


> yeah i've noticed, and i've been bidding on a few but haven't bought.
> 
> 
> think its cause of me?


 
 So it was you..... I was after a back up WE422a as well, and have been bidding, but come on more than 300 dollar on a used rectifier is just too much.. I bought my WE 422a a few years back at Tubeworld for half that and NOS....They are great and I love them for the very same reasons as DG, but I will hunt them again the moment DG praise on them is long forgotten....


----------



## Mihis

dubstep girl said:


> the A frame is just a little more extended in the treble and has a tighter more controlled sound, not as smooth. but i would not call them dry. they are a little leaner though, but they are also faster and have better PRaT than the bugle boys, which are warm and smooth and very open. The regular orange globes are warmer as well but not as fun as A frame.
> 
> 
> btw where did you find the chatham ? i've been looking for a pair for a while now.


 

 Thanks for the details on the A-frame. I guess I should try it again and pay more attention
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now I will try Siemens 7308's tho
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My terminology ain't so good as it seems. Maybe leaner is the right word and warm is the other side. And not dry and lush... I'm used to describing whiskies.
  
 Got chatham's from ebay. Turned out to be pretty expensive with the delivery and tariffs that ebay calculated into it straight. Global system or whatchacallit.. Oh well, I have them now atleast.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mihis said:


> Thanks for the details on the A-frame. I guess I should try it again and pay more attention:blink:   Now I will try Siemens 7308's tho
> My terminology ain't so good as it seems. Maybe leaner is the right word and warm is the other side. And not dry and lush... I'm used to describing whiskies.
> 
> Got chatham's from ebay. Turned out to be pretty expensive with the delivery and tariffs that ebay calculated into it straight. Global system or whatchacallit.. Oh well, I have them now atleast.




From what ive heard, the 7308s are nice tubes. Should be a step up from the sylvania 7308s i used to have, which where pretty nice tubes as well. Great bass extension and overall good sound


----------



## Dubstep Girl

playitloud said:


> So it was you..... I was after a back up WE422a as well, and have been bidding, but come on more than 300 dollar on a used rectifier is just too much.. I bought my WE 422a a few years back at Tubeworld for half that and NOS....They are great and I love them for the very same reasons as DG, but I will hunt them again the moment DG praise on them is long forgotten....




I just bought another one that popped up for sale. But yeah like 5-6 where sold recently. 

They will only keep rising in price, especially as its easier to get than the WE274A/B


----------



## prosperone

Woo Wa5 - headphone advice HE6 vs HD800??
  
 Hello all,
  
 Hoping to get some advice on purchase of HE6 vs. HD800.  I will be driving with Woo WA5.  I currently have T1 and Denon7000. I enjoy both in different contexts.  I listen to everything (rock, jazz, reggae, classical, female vocals, acoustic guitar, well mastered recordings and some not so much...).  I have listened to both the HE6 and HD800 but not out of the WA5. I enjoyed them both but was drawn a little to the HE6.  I did appreciate the detail and clarity of the HD800.   That said I haven't put in hours with these headphones so I don't really know.
 Based on research thus far and listening I am leaning towards the HE6.  Seems like I get a flavor of the HD800 from the T1.  The HE6 would add something new to the stable.  
  
 Decision factors: 
 1) trying to find sound which is superior to what I already have in some way.  I realize this is subjective. So I guess I'm looking for peoples' impressions as to why they enjoy the HE6 or HD800 more with the WA5 (Or should I stick with the T1 and call it a day)
 2) How do you find the synergy with the WA5?    
 3) Any concerns about long sessions with either phone?
 4) Has the HE6 or HD800 become your primary if not exclusive headphone.
 5) Do you find yourself listening to HE6 or HD800 more than one another?
  
 Thanks very much!


----------



## magiccabbage

prosperone said:


> Woo Wa5 - headphone advice HE6 vs HD800??
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> ...


 
 Frank1 is your man - he has both.and the WA5, i presume it will depend heavily on the tubes used.


----------



## Frank I

To answer that question is very subjective. I like both  of the headphone son the WA5 and listen to the HD800 and HE6 quite a bit. The hd800 is comfortable for longer session and the he6  as good as I have ever heard it on the WA5.   I also have the T1 and th900 so I listen to all of them regular but to say I prefer one over the other  is very hard for me to say as they are all excellent. I use the HD800 when I really want to hear what is on a recording. I listen to the hE6 for a couple of hours then I switch strictly for comfort. I wish it was more comfortable but it sounds fantastic.  Neither ar exclusive phones for me a sI listen to the 4 flagships I own quite a bit and spend lot sod hours with the Fostex TH900. Buy them all!!!!!


----------



## Mihis

frank i said:


> To answer that question is very subjective. I like both  of the headphone son the WA5 and listen to the HD800 and HE6 quite a bit. The hd800 is comfortable for longer session and the he6  as good as I have ever heard it on the WA5.   I also have the T1 and th900 so I listen to all of them regular but to say I prefer one over the other  is very hard for me to say as they are all excellent. I use the HD800 when I really want to hear what is on a recording. I listen to the hE6 for a couple of hours then I switch strictly for comfort. I wish it was more comfortable but it sounds fantastic.  Neither ar exclusive phones for me a sI listen to the 4 flagships I own quite a bit and spend lot sod hours with the Fostex TH900. Buy them all!!!!!


 

 Anybody remember what was Head-Fi slogan?
  
 Ah yeees. Sorry about your wallet
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I might start looking for additional hp's too now that I have everything else sorted. Not really smart as I have hd650 and I don't listen to it at all currently. Alpha dog is really interesting, but I don't know if WA2 has enuff powah for it.


----------



## Arcamera

mihis said:


> Anybody remember what was Head-Fi slogan?
> 
> Ah yeees. Sorry about your wallet
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol. My wallet is hurting at the moment...I don't know, but my ears at least are happy-- just got the WA2 and it does sound damn good...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mihis said:


> Anybody remember what was Head-Fi slogan?
> 
> Ah yeees. Sorry about your wallet
> 
> ...


 
  
 the WA2 is amazing but mostly suited for 150 ohms + headphones (hd 600, 650, 700, 800), 600 ohm beyers, t90, t1, etc...


----------



## prosperone

frank i said:


> To answer that question is very subjective. I like both  of the headphone son the WA5 and listen to the HD800 and HE6 quite a bit. The hd800 is comfortable for longer session and the he6  as good as I have ever heard it on the WA5.   I also have the T1 and th900 so I listen to all of them regular but to say I prefer one over the other  is very hard for me to say as they are all excellent. I use the HD800 when I really want to hear what is on a recording. I listen to the hE6 for a couple of hours then I switch strictly for comfort. I wish it was more comfortable but it sounds fantastic.  Neither ar exclusive phones for me a sI listen to the 4 flagships I own quite a bit and spend lot sod hours with the Fostex TH900. Buy them all!!!!!


 
 Thanks again Frank!  Now I just need to decide how much pain I'm in for.
  


mihis said:


> Anybody remember what was Head-Fi slogan?
> 
> Ah yeees. Sorry about your wallet
> 
> ...


 
 I find myself contemplating a simple portable rig from time to time - financially I "imagine" it making more sense


----------



## Frank I

Th WA234 with the #t bit those will be the Omega 6 Floor-Standers arriving tomorrow and also using the Fritz Carbon 7 plus all the headphones in the house


----------



## GrindingThud

WoW! 



frank i said:


> Th WA234 with the #t bit those will be the Omega 6 Floor-Standers arriving tomorrow and also using the Fritz Carbon 7 plus all the headphones in the house


----------



## kazsud

frank i said:


> Th WA234 with the #t bit those will be the Omega 6 Floor-Standers arriving tomorrow and also using the Fritz Carbon 7 plus all the headphones in the house


 
 lmao I forgot you were reviewing these. What is on the top shelf?


----------



## GrindingThud

And what speaker cable is that?


kazsud said:


> lmao I forgot you were reviewing these. What is on the top shelf?


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> Th WA234 with the #t bit those will be the Omega 6 Floor-Standers arriving tomorrow and also using the Fritz Carbon 7 plus all the headphones in the house


 
 Frank, you are having too much fun!


----------



## johnnybrick

frank i said:


> Th WA234 with the #t bit those will be the Omega 6 Floor-Standers arriving tomorrow and also using the Fritz Carbon 7 plus all the headphones in the house




Beautiful!


----------



## Frank I

kazsud said:


> lmao I forgot you were reviewing these. What is on the top shelf?


 
 nhat is a 5W EL84 SEP Headphone /speaker amp from Finale in Toronto. Noce piece 2K


----------



## Frank I

koiloco said:


> Frank, you are having too much fun!


 
 I am buddy. Sound excellent with the 2A3 tubes tonight. I will post some pictures tomorrow with the Omega speakers floor0-stander 6inch drive with bass down to 38  hz . They are coming tomorrow


----------



## Frank I

grindingthud said:


> And what speaker cable is that?


 
 Nordost Blue Heaven


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> I am buddy. Sound excellent with the 2A3 tubes tonight. I will post some pictures tomorrow with the Omega speakers floor0-stander 6inch drive with bass down to 38  hz . They are coming tomorrow


 
 6 inch driver and reaches down to 38hz??? That's pretty amazing.


----------



## EluamousNailo

I just got a WA22 last week and it pairs really well with the HD800 so far, even with just the stock tubes.  What would be the best first upgrade for it, balanced cables (already balanced to the amp) or tube upgrades?


----------



## jc9394

Tube upgrade, there are huge difference between stock and upgrade tubes.


----------



## koiloco

eluamousnailo said:


> I just got a WA22 last week and it pairs really well with the HD800 so far, even with just the stock tubes.  What would be the best first upgrade for it, balanced cables (already balanced to the amp) or tube upgrades?


 
 I am happy so far with sophia tube and TS7236 for power.  I am tryin out different 6SN7 to see what fits my taste the most.  Ratheon 6SN7 GTB, RCA, GE, ...
 I've been watching ebay for 422A and maybe a Mullard GZ37.  No luck so far and I didn't want to push the bid too high either.  No rush.  As is now, the WA22 is already wonderful at driving dynamic headphones such as HD800 and my Akg Q701.  My HE500 sounds great on WA22 but not exceptional yet.  I still prefer HE500 on speaker amps.


----------



## koiloco

By the way, the Hand-pick matched pair Sylvania 6SN7GT NOS tubes sold by Jack @ Woo are the brown base 6SN7WGT ones, right?  or are they VT231?   Thx.


----------



## reeltime

koiloco said:


> By the way, the Hand-pick matched pair Sylvania 6SN7GT NOS tubes sold by Jack @ Woo are the brown base 6SN7WGT ones, right?  or are they VT231?   Thx.


 
  
 Yes, brown base, 6SN7WGT.  Great tubes.  Best driver I've heard in the WA5LE.


----------



## musicman59

prosperone said:


> Woo Wa5 - headphone advice HE6 vs HD800??
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with Frank's response. Here are my two cents since I own both (HD800 and HE) but not a WA5 but a WA5-LE. 
  
 1) If I want to listen into the detail of the recording and have a bigger soundstage with excellent simulation of listening to a speakers system I gab the HD800. I am running the HE-6 out a a Threshold T50 and to me they sound more musical than than the HD800 but sacrifice some soundstage size.
  
 2) The synergy of the HD800 with my WA5-LE is excellent and even the HE-6 out of the High Impedance output sounds pretty good.
 so I just imagine how good they shoudl sounf out of the K1K output of the WA5.
  
 3) The HD800 are clearly more comfortable than the HE-6 for longer session due to the difference in weight.
 4) I rotate between the HE-6, HD800, W3000ANV and SR-009. The T1 gets less time.
 5) I would say I listen to the SR-009 the most and then the HE-6 and HD800 in a close second.


----------



## prosperone

Thanks MusicMan,
 Very helpful.  Especially hearing that you listen to both the 009 and the HE6.  I had wondered about either adding a WEE to the WA5 or moving towards a dedicated 009 setup and selling the rest.  Lots to think about.  I think I'm at the point where I may need to get some longer term listening in on both. Much appreciated!


----------



## musicman59

prosperone said:


> Thanks MusicMan,
> Very helpful.  Especially hearing that you listen to both the 009 and the HE6.  I had wondered about either adding a WEE to the WA5 or moving towards a dedicated 009 setup and selling the rest.  Lots to think about.  I think I'm at the point where I may need to get some longer term listening in on both. Much appreciated!


 
 I am listening to the SR-009 with a 727 MkII right now but my objective is to buy a RSA A-10 Thunderbolt for them. So far that's the combo I have liked the best. The one intriguing me is the Liquid Lightning Hybrid prototype I heard at RMAF. My listening time was limited but it sounded very promising. Hopefully Alex brings it into production.


----------



## prosperone

musicman59 said:


> I am listening to the SR-009 with a 727 MkII right now but my objective is to buy a RSA A-10 Thunderbolt for them. So far that's the combo I have liked the best. The one intriguing me is the Liquid Lightning Hybrid prototype I heard at RMAF. My listening time was limited but it sounded very promising. Hopefully Alex brings it into production.


 

 I like Ray's stuff a lot, and its nice that it is from a smaller shop.  I try to support smaller operations when the quality and value curves cross nicely with my needs.  Ray's products consistently seem to do this.  I'll try and check out the LLH.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> I am happy so far with sophia tube and TS7236 for power.  I am tryin out different 6SN7 to see what fits my taste the most.  Ratheon 6SN7 GTB, RCA, GE, ...
> I've been watching ebay for 422A and maybe a Mullard GZ37.  No luck so far and I didn't want to push the bid too high either.  No rush.  As is now, the WA22 is already wonderful at driving dynamic headphones such as HD800 and my Akg Q701.  My HE500 sounds great on WA22 but not exceptional yet.  I still prefer HE500 on speaker amps.




We422a sounds way better than any other rectifier i tried on wa22. Only the mullard gz34 metal base came close.

I did not like mullard gz37, the older cossor gz37 is nice though...


----------



## Frank I

T


----------



## Wapiti

Intriguing appearing beasties.


----------



## Joshhh

Who wants to give me 16k... (knowing I will never repay you back)?


----------



## CH23

joshhh said:


> Who wants to give me 16k... (knowing I will never repay you back)?


 

 i want to, sure.
 being _able _to, though


----------



## Mihis

dubstep girl said:


> the WA2 is amazing but mostly suited for 150 ohms + headphones (hd 600, 650, 700, 800), 600 ohm beyers, t90, t1, etc...


 

 Yep. It's great that it isn't good at driving those alpha dogs I would have to buy another amp for that reason and that is just too bothersome. Plus, I don't have anymore space on my kitchen table after amp, dac, tubes, headphones and piles of cd's
  
 I joined up on indiegogo geek pulse train. That should have enough power to drive alpha dogs, but expected delivery date is in april. I don't mind the wait, it's a good way to slow down the shoppingspree
  
 And gotta say, those monoblocks look just pure sex. Classy sex


----------



## GalaxyGuy

frank i said:


> T


 
 Hey Frank,
  
 Don't keep us in suspense. How are those monos sounding compared to the WA5? Do tell!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

eluamousnailo said:


> I just got a WA22 last week and it pairs really well with the HD800 so far, even with just the stock tubes.  What would be the best first upgrade for it, balanced cables (already balanced to the amp) or tube upgrades?


 
 Definitely tubes, tubes, tubes.  They all matter, but I think the drivers make the most impact.  I'm liking the TS 6F8G drivers right now, but others out there have other opinions.  I agree that it makes the HD800 sound great.  I am loving my 22 with the LCD-X as well.


----------



## kazsud

galaxyguy said:


> Definitely tubes, tubes, tubes.  They all matter, but I think the drivers make the most impact.  I'm liking the TS 6F8G drivers right now, but others out there have other opinions.  I agree that it makes the HD800 sound great.  I am loving my 22 with the LCD-X as well.



 


Jack told me and Frank I at the philly meet that you need a balanced cable and balanced source. Or was it just a balanced source.....


----------



## Frank I

galaxyguy said:


> Hey Frank,
> 
> Don't keep us in suspense. How are those monos sounding compared to the WA5? Do tell!


 
 LOL The suspense is killing me too. In time. I am still setting  the speakers up and dialing them in and they are not in the same system as the WA5. One is in my den and the other in the new room. Their will be comparison in the review in January issue of Positive Feedback. I will keep you guys posted as I get some more hours on that speaker.


----------



## Silent One

frank i said:


> LOL The suspense is killing me too. In time. I am still setting  the speakers up and dialing them in and they are not in the same system as the WA5. One is in my den and the other in the new room. Their will be comparison in the review in January issue of Positive Feedback. I will keep you guys posted as I get some more hours on that speaker.


 

  
 Would you kindly tell me if these floor standing cabinets simply house the speakers or are they in fact the speakers? Because when I clicked on your link, the speakers look much smaller and inside their own cabinets.


----------



## Frank I

silent one said:


> Would you kindly tell me if these floor standing cabinets simply house the speakers or are they in fact the speakers? Because when I clicked on your link, the speakers look much smaller and inside their own cabinets.


 
 not sure  I understand the question. The cabinet has the 6 inch alnico hemp cone driver in the top portion of the cabinet.


----------



## Frank I

I still need to install the three spikes and get them up off the ground, and they will tilt back. They sound magnificent. I am looking for some room treatments to go in the room and also oderd a new listening chair which will delivered Tuesday. The Omega 6 revue will be included in PFO and will also be a stand alone review in Higher Fidelity.  Louis cabinet work is first rate furniture work. I will reshoot these without the light on an use a Nikon D7100 with a flash to capture the real beauty of the quality of the  speakers. They are Bubinga.


----------



## Silent One

frank i said:


> *not sure  I understand the question.* The cabinet has the 6 inch alnico hemp cone driver in the top portion of the cabinet.


 
  
 Thanks for your prompt reply. When I clicked on the link to look at the speakers, what's pictured here looks different than the speakers in the link. Same as when I searched the Net...
  
 They look lovely! How much for me to bring them home?


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> I still need to install the three spikes and get them up off the ground, and they will tilt back. They sound magnificent. I am looking for some room treatments to go in the room and also oderd a new listening chair which will delivered Tuesday. The Omega 6 revue will be included in PFO and will also be a stand alone review in Higher Fidelity.  Louis cabinet work is first rate furniture work. I will reshoot these without the light on an use a Nikon D7100 with a flash to capture the real beauty of the quality of the  speakers. They are Bubinga.


 
 What chair did you order?


----------



## Frank I

silent one said:


> Thanks for your prompt reply. When I clicked on the link to look at the speakers, what's pictured here looks different than the speakers in the link. Same as when I searched the Net...
> 
> They look lovely! How much for me to bring them home?


 
 Thats the  speaker Louis built. There is nothing different than I guess the Bubinga cabinet  wood he used. The picture is the way it looks in my room. Perhaps when I put the spike in the speaker and it tips back it will look closer to Louis website.  The list is 2350.00 except this is Bubinga so I am not sure what the extra retail on it  for the exotic wood but I will ask  Louis what the retail is and let you know. They are really beautiful cabinets and they sounds as good as they look. There are sone reviews that were done on these by doe very knowledgeable reviews on his website.   Call Louis an talk with him he will work with you.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> What chair did you order?


 
 Just a normal 72 inch comfortable sofa for the room


----------



## Silent One

frank i said:


> Thats the  speaker Louis built. There is nothing different than I guess the Bubinga cabinet  wood he used. The picture is the way it looks in my room. Perhaps when I put the spike in the speaker and it tips back it will look closer to Louis website.  The list is 2350.00 except this is Bubinga so I am not sure what the extra retail on it  for the exotic wood but I will ask  Louis what the retail is and let you know. They are really beautiful cabinets and they sounds as good as they look. There are sone reviews that were done on these by doe very knowledgeable reviews on his website.   Call Louis an talk with him he will work with you.


 
 WOWZA! That Bubinga 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




is a standout!!!
  
 Will call him tomorrow. But will stare at your pix for now...


----------



## Frank I

Call him he will work with you. I like the Bubinga. He just sent them to me. He built them for the reviews. LOL I love them with the 2A3 tube sin the WA234. I will swap tubes this weekend . Those are Sophia 2A3 and 274 rectifiers that sound excellent in the amplifier.  I will shoot them in the daytime this weekend.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Call him he will work with you. I like the Bubinga. He just sent them to me. He built them for the reviews. LOL I love them with the 2A3 tube sin the WA234. I will swap tubes this weekend . Those are Sophia 2A3 and 274 rectifiers that sound excellent in the amplifier.  I will shoot them in the daytime this weekend.


 
 you are doing a WA234 review?


----------



## Silent One

edit


----------



## Silent One

frank i said:


> Call him he will work with you. I like the Bubinga. He just sent them to me. He built them for the reviews. LOL I love them with the 2A3 tube sin the WA234. I will swap tubes this weekend . Those are Sophia 2A3 and 274 rectifiers that sound excellent in the amplifier.  I will shoot them in the daytime this weekend.


 






 
  
 Currently perusing CL for Pre-Owned boxes of glory from times past...


----------



## magiccabbage

what happened? Everything ok?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> edit


 
 just being nosy. In other news has anyone heard this ¬?
  

 listening on WA2/T1 the damn thing sounds amazing. My lovely housemate made me some nice maca tea and i have to say it goes nice with this album. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 green smile!


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


>


 
  
 - Vintage speakers
  
 - Heard a track here and there...


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> - Vintage speakers
> 
> - Heard a track here and there...


 
 BTW thanks for the earth wind and fire posts a while back on the listening thread. Im loving the "I am" album. I listen to it every day. I overlooked the band a few years back. Big mistake.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> BTW thanks for the earth wind and fire posts a while back on the listening thread. Im loving the "I am" album. I listen to it every day. I overlooked the band a few years back. Big mistake.


 





 Now that you especially got good gear... you might not get all your work done around the home.


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> Now that you especially got good gear... you might not get all your work done around the home.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


>


 





 C'mon now, put that 'Magic' in magiccabbage to work!


----------



## magiccabbage

silent one said:


> C'mon now, put that 'Magic' in magiccabbage to work!


 
 im on it


----------



## fhuang

magiccabbage said:


> just being nosy. In other news has anyone heard this ¬?
> 
> 
> listening on WA2/T1 the damn thing sounds amazing. My lovely housemate made me some nice maca tea and i have to say it goes nice with this album.
> ...


 
  
 i love this album with t1


----------



## GalaxyGuy

kazsud said:


> galaxyguy said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely tubes, tubes, tubes.  They all matter, but I think the drivers make the most impact.  I'm liking the TS 6F8G drivers right now, but others out there have other opinions.  I agree that it makes the HD800 sound great.  I am loving my 22 with the LCD-X as well.
> ...


 
 Ah...well if you don't have a balanced source, then that should be a higher priority.  From what I've read, having an unbalanced source means you're only using half of the amp.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Listening to the WA7/TH900 combo this evening.  Cheers!


----------



## magiccabbage

galaxyguy said:


> Listening to the WA7/TH900 combo this evening.  Cheers!


 
 great pic


----------



## GalaxyGuy

magiccabbage said:


> great pic


 
 Thanks!  I love the way the glass on over the tubes catches the glow. And it sounds very, very good.


----------



## koiloco

galaxyguy said:


> Ah...well if you don't have a balanced source, then that should be a higher priority.  From what I've read, having an unbalanced source means you're only *using half of the amp.*


 
 I have personally verified this and it is correct.  You really don't want to use WA22 unbalanced.  It's a waste of $ in that case.  If I can't go balanced from DAC at all, WA6SE will be a better choice for much less $.


----------



## ardilla

The wa22 still sounds good, even unbalanced. But it yes indeed, it sounds better balanced. There is a significant difference, but WA22 is still a good performer using only RCA inputs, depending on headphone power requirements.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> I have personally verified this and it is correct.  You really don't want to use WA22 unbalanced.  It's a waste of $ in that case.  If I can't go balanced from DAC at all, WA6SE will be a better choice for much less $.


 
  
 +1


----------



## doodootoo

galaxyguy said:


> Listening to the WA7/TH900 combo this evening.  Cheers!


 
  
 Is that a WDS-1? And if so, do you usually run it with the sharp or slow filter?


----------



## GalaxyGuy

doodootoo said:


> Is that a WDS-1? And if so, do you usually run it with the sharp or slow filter?


 
 It is.  I run it on slow with the TH900s.  That said, I've not spent a great deal of time comparing the two filters.


----------



## campj

magiccabbage said:


>


 
 LOL


----------



## chengka7

Hi, can anyone give me some advice whether should I buy WA22 for my LCD-3, and if anyone knows, how does WA22 compared to Bryston BHA-1 on LCD-3?
  
 Thanks so much


----------



## jc9394

Get WA5 for LCD3.


----------



## Dillan

Still enjoying my wa2 after a year. Absolutely nothing but praise for woo audio.


----------



## magiccabbage

chengka7 said:


> Hi, can anyone give me some advice whether should I buy WA22 for my LCD-3, and if anyone knows, how does WA22 compared to Bryston BHA-1 on LCD-3?
> 
> Thanks so much


 
 Hmm tricky one. I think you will get mixed opinions on that. Maybe ask Macedonian hero that, he had the WA22 with the LCD3 but i don't know if he has heard the BHA-1. people usually prefer solid state for planar's.


----------



## chengka7

I am currently have BHA-1 as my main amp, but I am really curious about the sound of Woo, if WA22 can drive LCD-3 well then I will definitely buy it.


----------



## magiccabbage

chengka7 said:


> I am currently have BHA-1 as my main amp, but I am really curious about the sound of Woo, if WA22 can drive LCD-3 well then I will definitely buy it.


 
 It will drive it but i dunno how good it will be. Maybe DubstepGirl could chime in here as well. I Think she had the WA22 and LCD3 recently. GSX MK2 is supposed to be amazing with LCD3 but that might be out of your price range. 
  
 If i had the money for a WA22, I would hold off, save a bit more and get the GSX.


----------



## chengka7

magiccabbage said:


> It will drive it but i dunno how good it will be. Maybe DubstepGirl could chime in here as well. I Think she had the WA22 and LCD3 recently. GSX MK2 is supposed to be amazing with LCD3 but that might be out of your price range.
> 
> If i had the money for a WA22, I would hold off, save a bit more and get the GSX.


 
 I actually have the money for GSX, but I just cannot wait for 12 weeks. Thats too long for me. I know it is not right choice, but I am just not good at waiting especially for audio system.....


----------



## jc9394

Pairing LCD-3 is very personal.  DG does not like it maybe it is the maxxed caps in there and overly wide soundstage on the BGs WA22.
  
 I tried beta22, WA22, and WA5LE, they are all good.  There is no silver bullet for it and it also depends on the source you are feeding it.


----------



## magiccabbage

chengka7 said:


> I actually have the money for GSX, but I just cannot wait for 12 weeks. Thats too long for me. I know it is not right choice, but I am just not good at waiting especially for audio system.....


 
 Just get cryogenically frozen for 3 months then wake and - its right there!


----------



## chengka7

magiccabbage said:


> Just get cryogenically frozen for 3 months then wake and - its right there!


 
 LMAO, man, thats amazing idea, I will try, lol


----------



## magiccabbage

Remember this?


----------



## chengka7

magiccabbage said:


> Remember this?


 
 hahahah, man you are way too into this....


----------



## ardilla

chengka7 said:


> Hi, can anyone give me some advice whether should I buy WA22 for my LCD-3, and if anyone knows, how does WA22 compared to Bryston BHA-1 on LCD-3?
> 
> Thanks so much




I really like the WA22 with the LCD3. The Bryston however did not impress me with it, though I must add it was a brief listen. 

Good thing with WA22 is you can roll tubes which affects sound a LOT on the WA22... So you can tune it to your liking.


----------



## chengka7

ardilla said:


> I really like the WA22 with the LCD3. The Bryston however did not impress me with it, though I must add it was a brief listen.
> 
> Good thing with WA22 is you can roll tubes which affects sound a LOT on the WA22... So you can tune it to your liking.


 
 Thanks a lot, I am selling my bryston BHA-1, after I sell it I will buy WA22


----------



## chengka7

ardilla said:


> I really like the WA22 with the LCD3. The Bryston however did not impress me with it, though I must add it was a brief listen.
> 
> Good thing with WA22 is you can roll tubes which affects sound a LOT on the WA22... So you can tune it to your liking.


 
 Could you or anyone else give me some recommendation of tube on WA22 which drive LCD-3 better? I actually prefer smoother and warmer sound with open sound stage. Thanks a LOT


----------



## koiloco

chengka7 said:


> I actually have the money for GSX, but I just cannot wait for 12 weeks. Thats too long for me. I know it is not right choice, but I am just not good at waiting especially for audio system.....


 
 I've been driving my HE500 with WA22.  I finally found a tube combo that works great to my ears/taste.  RCA 6as7, Sophia rectifier (tryin to get 422a and mullard GZ34 metal base), RCA gray glass 6sn7.  Less power than TS7236 but much more relaxing and I can crank the volume way up to 12 to 1 o'clock.  Bass kicks in at this level nicely, just a tiny bit less than what I would get from Emotiva mini-x but everything else is superb.  For now, I am happy with what I am getting from the WA22 knowing my next purchase would be either HD800 or something...I have also verified for 2 weeks straight that HD800/WA22 is a sublime combo.  For LCD3, I would think WA22 should be also a good choice.


----------



## koiloco

chengka7 said:


> Could you or anyone else give me some recommendation of tube on WA22 which drive LCD-3 better? I actually prefer smoother and warmer sound with open sound stage. Thanks a LOT


 
 ^ what I said in my last post could be a good tube combo for you to start.  I like what I am hearing.  YMMV...
 but WA22 is a wonderful amp and built like a tank.  GLuck.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Pairing LCD-3 is very personal.  DG does not like it maybe it is the maxxed caps in there and overly wide soundstage on the BGs WA22.
> 
> I tried beta22, WA22, and WA5LE, they are all good.  There is no silver bullet for it and it also depends on the source you are feeding it.





Yeah YMMMV, personally i prefer hd 800 with wa22 but wa6-se with lcd-3


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The 22 works well with the LCD3s.i much preferred it over the Bryston which was my original first choice. Valves choice however is very effected by your supply voltage. This can vary considerably (typically by upto 15%) in supply voltage to the house. You choice of rectifier can then really change the voltage drop across the rectifier which in term dictates the operating point of the other tubes. The GZ34 has a very low voltage drop (3%) where as other rectifiers loose far more voltage (which can be upto about 20%). This means that someone with a high supply voltage to the house may use a different rectifier to achieve a similar result to someone with a more standard voltage level of supply. Valve choice can vary quite allot but I do like 6F8g with A1834 GEC for the 22 / LCD3 combo.


----------



## jc9394

The tubes choice when I have my WA22 are Mullard metal base GZ34, TS BGRP 6SN7, and GEC 6AS7G for HD800 and replace the GEC with TS 7236 for LCDs.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

DG, could you compare the WE422a to an EML5U4G in the WA22 when you had it?  In my mind you have every rectifier on the planet, so I thought maybe you would have done this comparison.


----------



## ardilla

chengka7 said:


> Could you or anyone else give me some recommendation of tube on WA22 which drive LCD-3 better? I actually prefer smoother and warmer sound with open sound stage. Thanks a LOT




I like the TS5998, Sylvania VT231 and The GZ34 (faster sounding) or GZ37 (fuller sounding) with the LCD3. But lots of tubes will work fine, and I haven't rolled too much. But I find the rectifier to be very important for the sound signature you get.


----------



## daverich4

koiloco said:


> I've been driving my HE500 with WA22.  I finally found a tube combo that works great to my ears/taste.  RCA 6as7, Sophia rectifier (tryin to get 422a and mullard GZ34 metal base), RCA gray glass 6sn7.  Less power than TS7236 but much more relaxing and I can crank the volume way up to 12 to 1 o'clock.  Bass kicks in at this level nicely, just a tiny bit less than what I would get from Emotiva mini-x but everything else is superb.  For now, I am happy with what I am getting from the WA22 knowing my next purchase would be either HD800 or something...I have also verified for 2 weeks straight that HD800/WA22 is a sublime combo.  For LCD3, I would think WA22 should be also a good choice.




In my WA22 the TS5998 produce more bass than the TS7236 but still have plenty of power.


----------



## mogour

chengka7 said:


> I am currently have BHA-1 as my main amp, but I am really curious about the sound of Woo, if WA22 can drive LCD-3 well then I will definitely buy it.


 
 I have WA22 for more than a year now and I can say that it's very good match with my LCD-3. My tubes are ts 6F8G / 596 / 7236 and connected to a good Yulong source. The sound is like having a speaker setup on your head. the only thing is that the bass don't hit as hard as solid state but I'm not a bass head so it doesn't matter for me. The WA22 has enough power for LCD-3 for sure and you can listen has loud has you want with almost no listening fatigue involve. Good XLR and power cable does improve the sound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> DG, could you compare the WE422a to an EML5U4G in the WA22 when you had it?  In my mind you have every rectifier on the planet, so I thought maybe you would have done this comparison.


 
  
 yeah the EML its a nice sounding tube, warm yet balanced and with good imaging, but i personally think there are many NOS tubes that outperform it, no comparison vs WE422A, the WE422A is more transparent and has more detail and clarity to it. some of the other rectifiers i have i would prefer to the EML as well.
  
 i did use the EML in the WA22 quite a bit because it didn't cause noise with some of the 6f8g's i used. i preferred the EML 274B on the WA22 over the 5U4G. 
  


daverich4 said:


> In my WA22 the TS5998 produce more bass than the TS7236 but still have plenty of power.


 
  
 +1, in the WA22 i still preferred the 5998 over the 7236 tubes.


----------



## Rawrbington

i love it when i neglect my woo rig for a while.
 so awesome when i get to sit down and use it.
  
 does the 6SE have the power for the LCD3/LCDX?
  
 im getting the urge to upgrade from my 2's


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yes


----------



## dminches

I have listened to most of the Woos with the LCD series. The WA5 sounds the best but the WA6-SE is the best value.


----------



## Frank I

I have started a new project regarding the Woo products and started a threadWOO AUDIO COMPARISON THREAD. Looking forward to sharing stuff with the community. Very excited  for me to  be doing this.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Has this 596 auction been mentioned here already?
  
 www.ebay.com/itm/221319854196


----------



## koiloco

ultrainferno said:


> Has this 596 auction been mentioned here already?
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/221319854196


 

 It has been on my watch list.


----------



## musicman59

You have to be kidding me! $177 for one tube?! I paid for my $40... I am glad I have my backups


----------



## Ultrainferno

musicman59 said:


> You have to be kidding me! $177 for one tube?! I paid for my $40... I am glad I have my backups


 
  
 Remember who got you those tubes!


----------



## Frank I

Funny thin only one using those tubes I think are headfi member in a small group here. I wonder which one of us bought that tube. I was waiting for that auction near the end but never placed a bid because they were too high and I need two of them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

198$.....


----------



## Ultrainferno

dubstep girl said:


> 198$.....


 
  
 Imaginn it being DOA


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Or arrive broken like the one in that picture that was posted here last year...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Wasn't that Keph's? He broke it himself


----------



## Silent One

Yup, it was him.


----------



## ardilla

Hmmmm.... Since the last posters probably are responsible for making someone willing to pay that much, you shouldn't brag about how cheap you got yours, should you? =9

And anyway, if it is half as good as the usual crowd claims, it certainly should be worth it. It's not the most expensive tube out there, by far.... 

Is the mighty 596 not worth $198 in Audio Quality?


----------



## longbowbbs

ardilla said:


> Hmmmm.... Since the last posters probably are responsible for making someone willing to pay that much, you shouldn't brag about how cheap you got yours, should you? =9
> 
> And anyway, if it is half as good as the usual crowd claims, it certainly should be worth it. It's not the most expensive tube out there, by far....
> 
> Is the mighty 596 not worth $198 in Audio Quality?


 
 No....I love the tube, but that price is crazy. It is a cool looking 5U4G basically. It has nice low end. Better than the Jan Sylvania's I have used. Considering what you can pick up for under $20 you are basically paying for a really cool looking tube. For me it is not 10X in sound quality though.
  
 Easy for me to say though since I have a pair on the shelf....


----------



## ardilla

longbowbbs said:


> No....I love the tube, but that price is crazy. It is a cool looking 5U4G basically. It has nice low end. Better than the Jan Sylvania's I have used. Considering what you can pick up for under $20 you are basically paying for a really cool looking tube. For me it is not 10X in sound quality though.
> 
> Easy for me to say though since I have a pair on the shelf....




Right. Wanna sell? Are you suggesting I pay 20, or just slightly above for each, then? I'm awaiting your pm


----------



## longbowbbs

Nice try Chris...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Since I got them for a better price I will allow them to appreciate until I decide to move them along or just burn them til they drop in the SLI-80!


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> Nice try Chris...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Using the word "Drop" made me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a bit nervous...
  
  
 A few hours ago, I submitted a bid for quotes on a 20-ct & 50-ct. Let's see what my broker's been smokin'!


----------



## ardilla

longbowbbs said:


> Nice try Chris...
> 
> Since I got them for a better price I will allow them to appreciate until I decide to move them along or just burn them til they drop in the SLI-80!






Let me know when you have realized that you can do without them and decide to prove me wrong by letting me experience their mediocre sound ,)


----------



## longbowbbs

ardilla said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Nice try Chris...
> ...


 
 I will protect you from that difficult experience!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

any one used a 7AF7 Loctal in their Woos?


----------



## Silent One

Yes, 7AF7 & 7N7 - _WA 6 Special Edition._ But the glass wasn't premium and just sounded okay.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I regularly use 7N7s but just was wondering about pulling some 7AF7s from the attic try. In WA6se. Sounds like it might be worth a pop.


----------



## Silent One

Especially if you've already got 'em. I love playing around trying stuff inside the listening room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nuthin' has gone Ka-Boom just yet!


----------



## ardilla

longbowbbs said:


> I will protect you from that difficult experience!




Sooo. Have we been talking the market value up or down in the last couple of posts?


----------



## musicman59

ultrainferno said:


> Remember who got you those tubes!


 
 I remember my friend!


----------



## kchew

Man, the recent prices of good tubes is really putting a damper on getting the best for the Woo amps. I'm fortunate to already own most of what I want, but I shudder to imagine how much a new amp owner would have to fork out for tubes like the 5998, GZ34 metal and TS BGRP.

I guess I'll use my affordable tubes for the month of December, just like when I first got my WA22 three years ago, and see if the magic still remains. And perhaps I'll find some combinations that sound good and are affordable as compared to the madness we are witnessing.


----------



## jc9394

Princess is on sale this Friday, not sure it is good sale or not.
  
 1.     Sophia Electric 845/211 MK3 tubes with 30 days warranty: $599.99 per pair.
 2.     Sophia Electric Princess 300B Carbon plate tubes with 30 days warranty: $425 per pair
 3.     Sophia Electric Grade B 6SL7/6SN7/12AX7/12AU7 with 30 days warranty: $60 per tube
 4.    Royal Princess 300B matched pair with one-year warranty: $950 per pair without wooden box or $999.99 with wooden box.


----------



## ardilla

kchew said:


> Man, the recent prices of good tubes is really putting a damper on getting the best for the Woo amps. I'm fortunate to already own most of what I want, but I shudder to imagine how much a new amp owner would have to fork out for tubes like the 5998, GZ34 metal and TS BGRP.
> 
> I guess I'll use my affordable tubes for the month of December, just like when I first got my WA22 three years ago, and see if the magic still remains. And perhaps I'll find some combinations that sound good and are affordable as compared to the madness we are witnessing.




With recent years increased demand and nos stocks decreasing, it isn't a mystery... But maybe some will discover some low price magic tube again and.share it. Then demand will rise and so will prices. 

We can conclude that the glorious days of cheap nos tubes are gone. .. Unless maybe tube amp designers find new designs taking advantage of surplus stock. The new Leben CS300 F amp use tubes claimed never to have been used in audio before, JAN-6197(GE) and 17EW8. Don't know about prices, though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Hmmmm.... Since the last posters probably are responsible for making someone willing to pay that much, you shouldn't brag about how cheap you got yours, should you? =9
> 
> And anyway, if it is half as good as the usual crowd claims, it certainly should be worth it. It's not the most expensive tube out there, by far....
> 
> Is the mighty 596 not worth $198 in Audio Quality?




Ive paid mostly average/street prices for most of my tubes. I wasnt lucky enough to get gec 6as7g for 20$ or ts 5998 for 50$ a pair...

The 596 is a very good tube and i dont think should be worth over 200$ but then again, its a very solid performer especially on the woos and glenn otl amp.

The mullard gz34 metal, u52, we422a are still better and will keep the 596 from becoming too expensive. Theres cheaper tubes that are pretty good as well.


----------



## ru4music

DubsG, what are U running for HP amps now?  Please post or PM me.  It's been a while since I have posted.  Take care all...


----------



## anasztasia

Hi guys just thought you all should know my WA5LE is up for sale, along with all my headphone system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/692289/anasz-whole-system-clearance#post_10014765


----------



## GrindingThud

Merry Christmas from Linn:
http://www.linn.co.uk/christmas


----------



## jc9394

Post this here before FS forums, I'm considering selling the WA5LE I got from here http://www.head-fi.org/t/681307/woo-wa5-le-with-tube-upgrade-package-free-shipping-conus.  I'm looking at what I paid, the reason to sell is possiblity of getting WA5 to drive speakers.
  
 Please note, the amp was sent back to Jack to fixed a minor issue that was cause by shipping.  While Jack has the amp, he recalibrated to lower the background noise. 
  
  
 Trade, I'm only interested in TH900 and LCD3.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

decided to just keep the beta and waiting for glenn otl and 300b?


----------



## jc9394

most likely will get the regular WA5 once I sold the LE, really want that Zu Aduio Omen Def.


----------



## jc9394

will decide on the Glenn 300B after I gets my hands with the OTL.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> most likely will get the regular WA5 once I sold the LE, really want that Zu Aduio Omen Def.


 
 I think Clayton uses those.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> DubsG, what are U running for HP amps now?  Please post or PM me.  It's been a while since I have posted.  Take care all...




Just the gsx mk2 and the glenn otl im borrowing. Not sure yet what my next amp will be


----------



## koiloco

Wow, for the WA22, TS 5998s are indeed better than TS 7236s.  To my ears, 5998s seem to be more powerful too.  I haven't swapped back to 7236 and confirm yet. Anyone experienced the same?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> Wow, for the WA22, TS 5998s are indeed better than TS 7236s.  To my ears, 5998s seem to have more powerful too.  I haven't swapped back to 7236 and confirm yet. Anyone experienced the same?


 
  
 yes, even though some say the 7236's are better on the WA22, i personally find the 5998 to be better on every amp i've compared them to the 7236.


----------



## Silent One

I prefer TS-5998s over 7236s with my OTL...


----------



## xahhax

just got my WA2. still burning in, stock tubes.
 yet i start to understand the passion and this thread, absolutely LOVE IT.


----------



## Arcamera

xahhax said:


> just got my WA2. still burning in, stock tubes.
> yet i start to understand the passion and this thread, absolutely LOVE IT.


----------



## ardilla

xahhax said:


> just got my WA2. still burning in, stock tubes.
> yet i start to understand the passion and this thread, absolutely LOVE IT.


 
  
 Welcome aboard 
  
 I didn't hate the stock tunes either. I think the quality of the stock tubes vary quite a bit. What are your cans?


----------



## xahhax

ardilla said:


> Welcome aboard
> 
> I didn't hate the stock tunes either. I think the quality of the stock tubes vary quite a bit. What are your cans?


 
 HD800.
 Yes I guess the quality varies. I got sylvania power tubes that look beyond old and one of them is not even straight which is a bit bothering as the unit looks so beautiful otherwise and that tube is really really distracting..


----------



## ardilla

xahhax said:


> HD800.
> Yes I guess the quality varies. I got sylvania power tubes that look beyond old and one of them is not even straight which is a bit bothering as the unit looks so beautiful otherwise and that tube is really really distracting..


 
  
 Haha - but at least it seems they sound good 
  
 But if you are gonna hang around here, it wont take long before you have got other tubes. 6AS7Gs are often very smooth, nice and affordable. Great place to start rolling IMO


----------



## xahhax

ardilla said:


> Haha - but at least it seems they sound good
> 
> But if you are gonna hang around here, it wont take long before you have got other tubes. 6AS7Gs are often very smooth, nice and affordable. Great place to start rolling IMO


 
 already on order same for some russian tubes and amperax for the drivers 
 BTW just upgraded from a WA7. This one is going on the night table!


----------



## ardilla

xahhax said:


> already on order same for some russian tubes and amperax for the drivers
> *BTW just upgraded from a WA7.* This one is going on the night table!


 
  
 Great! Night table amps are a necessity of life 
  
 Looking foreward to some comparisons between the WA7 and WA2. What are your imperssions so far?
  
 BTW - Welcome into the "Society of Dual Woo-Owners"


----------



## Arcamera

ardilla said:


> BTW - Welcome into the "Society of Dual Woo-Owners"


 
  
 Haha, I have three so far  When I win the lottery, onward to the higher Woo end!...


----------



## ardilla

arcamera said:


> Haha, I have three so far  When I win the lottery, onward to the higher Woo end!...


 
  
 LOL - you beat me then 
  
 We have to rename it the "*Multiple Woo Owner's Society*", I guess. 
  
 Are you building an intentional collection or just having troubles making yourself selling off after upgrading?


----------



## Arcamera

ardilla said:


> Are you building an intentional collection or just having troubles making yourself selling off after upgrading?


 
  
 The latter, lol. Each piece is great.


----------



## ardilla

arcamera said:


> ardilla said:
> 
> 
> > Are you building an intentional collection or just having troubles making yourself selling off after upgrading?
> ...


 
  
 I am unintentionally building my amp-collection the same way..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> Great! Night table amps are a necessity of life
> 
> Looking foreward to some comparisons between the WA7 and WA2. What are your imperssions so far?
> 
> BTW - Welcome into the "Society of Dual Woo-Owners"


----------



## koiloco

Bad people, bad influence in this thread, especially DG.  She gave me the tube bug big time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> Bad people, bad influence in this thread, especially DG.  She gave me the tube bug big time.




:evil:


----------



## xahhax

> Looking foreward to some comparisons between the WA7 and WA2. What are your imperssions so far?


 
  of course with a new gadget you don't go back to the 'old' one - but I will do a back to back comparison and share.
 The first impression is more controlled power


----------



## joseph69

Hi everyone, I'm waiting to receive the WA6/SP/6WE7 tube upgrade which was shipped today from Elmhurst, N.Y. and I'm in Statenn, Island, N.Y so I should receive it in a couples of days, (can't wait)!!! I purchased this amp to use with the Grado RS1i, there are almost 2000 posts on this thread and I've just found it and started reading it. I've only read a little bit so far, but I see that many people like the Senn's with this amp, can anyone comment on their experiences with the RS's or other Grado's with the WA6? Thank you.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats!





 Though, if it were me, I would've crossed the Verrazano yesterday!


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you. Very first thing that popped into my mind to, but I only realized it was in Elmhurst when I received the e-mail with the tracking # this morning, or I would have went and picked it up, and saved the shipping cost and the handling abuse. LOL!!! Thanks again, can't wait to hear it!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

joseph69 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm waiting to receive the WA6/SP/6WE7 tube upgrade which was shipped today from Elmhurst, N.Y. and I'm in Statenn, Island, N.Y so I should receive it in a couples of days, (can't wait)!!! I purchased this amp to use with the Grado RS1i, there are almost 2000 posts on this thread and I've just found it and started reading it. I've only read a little bit so far, but I see that many people like the Senn's with this amp, can anyone comment on their experiences with the RS's or other Grado's with the WA6? Thank you.


 
  
 WA6/WA6-SE is quite good with grado!


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm waiting to receive the WA6/SP/6WE7 tube upgrade which was shipped today from Elmhurst, N.Y. and I'm in Statenn, Island, N.Y so I should receive it in a couples of days, (can't wait)!!! I purchased this amp to use with the Grado RS1i, there are almost 2000 posts on this thread and I've just found it and started reading it. I've only read a little bit so far, but I see that many people like the Senn's with this amp, can anyone comment on their experiences with the RS's or other Grado's with the WA6? Thank you.


 
 The GS1000 sounds excellent with the WA6 and also the hd800 and every headphone I have tried with it. The 6SE is an excellent all around performer.


----------



## joseph69

Thanks for the positive inputs, like I mentioned, I didn't get too far into the thread, and most people where talking about Senn's with the WA6. Hopefully I will receive it today, I'm actually going to buy a stand for it today because I'm going to use it with my recliner as my main listening station, not as a desktop, I have the LD1+ for that. Thanks again.
 BTW, *Dubstep girl*, I had read a post somewhere and you stated that the WA6/SP/6EW7 tubes had a nice bass punch with the RS1i's, this is why I also ordered this upgrade, thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i don't remember specially saying bass punch (if i did i guess i did enjoy the bass on the rs1i quite a bit) but yes the sophia/6ew7 worked very well with grados when i had them. that includes the 325, rs1, and rs1i. the 6ew7 doesn't have as much bass as a 6fd7 but its still very good and what i liked about that tube is the warmth and open-ness, it works well with grado headphones and improving the midrange while the sophia maintains dynamics and forwardness, and of course, bass.
  
 most people that have tried grados with WA6-SE have had excellent results, i personally would consider the WA6-SE if i where to re-introduce the RS1i into my collection since it did pair so well.


----------



## Arcamera

I've owned a couple of Grados, and they were indeed good with the WA6.


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> i don't remember specially saying bass punch (if i did i guess i did enjoy the bass on the rs1i quite a bit) but yes the sophia/6ew7 worked very well with grados when i had them. that includes the 325, rs1, and rs1i. the 6ew7 doesn't have as much bass as a 6fd7 but its still very good and what i liked about that tube is the warmth and open-ness, it works well with grado headphones and improving the midrange while the sophia maintains dynamics and forwardness, and of course, bass.
> 
> most people that have tried grados with WA6-SE have had excellent results, i personally would consider the WA6-SE if i where to re-introduce the RS1i into my collection since it did pair so well.


 
 Thanks for the info on the info on the 6FD7 for the future. I received the WA6 today and I just started listening to it right now. Of course I can't give impressions on the sound as of now, but it sound nice right out of the box at low volume. I can definitely say that this thing is built like a tank and is beautiful and well crafted.
  


arcamera said:


> I've owned a couple of Grados, and they were indeed good with the WA6.


 
 I also own the 80i's and the 325is's, so I will be using these models with the WA6 also, so thats good to know, thanks.


----------



## joseph69

I must say, the WA6 is pleasing me very, very much for the little amount of time I've had/listened to it. I've actually never heard my music this way, the separation and the texture of the music is just…well like I said,  something I've never heard before with another amp. I've also never heard sub bass like I'm hearing (very subtle) not overwhelming at all and the mids and highs seem spot on for me, and the sound stage is very nice, but still very focused and clear, where I'm able to hear instrument separation in places I've never heard (sounds instruments are outside of my head in the high/low-left/right- front/back and center, if that makes any sense). Also this amp delivers that Grado sound that makes me love Grado, still has that somewhat of attack, but laid back just the right amount, for me. After having the Ear+HD for the short time I had it, I was thinking to myself maybe I'm not a tube kind of guy when switching from my Adcom-710 (which is lightening quick and sharp), and then hearing the Ear+HD (which was very smooth and mellow), I sought of missed that quickness of the SS, but at the same time liked the smoothness and the warmth of the Ear+HD. With the WA6, I find it is falling inbetween both of these amps, and more... much more than I ever expected! I know i'm being quick to say this in such little time, but I may be done!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

joseph69 said:


> I must say, the WA6 is pleasing me very, very much for the little amount of time I've had/listened to it. I've actually never heard my music this way, the separation and the texture of the music is just…well like I said,  something I've never heard before with another amp. I've also never heard sub bass like I'm hearing (very subtle) not overwhelming at all and the mids and highs seem spot on for me, and the sound stage is very nice, but still very focused and clear, where I'm able to hear instrument separation in places I've never heard (sounds instruments are outside of my head in the high/low-left/right- front/back and center, if that makes any sense). Also this amp delivers that Grado sound that makes me love Grado, still has that somewhat of attack, but laid back just the right amount, for me. After having the Ear+HD for the short time I had it, I was thinking to myself maybe I'm not a tube kind of guy when switching from my Adcom-710 (which is lightening quick and sharp), and then hearing the Ear+HD (which was very smooth and mellow), I sought of missed that quickness of the SS, but at the same time liked the smoothness and the warmth of the Ear+HD. With the WA6, I find it is falling inbetween both of these amps, and more... much more than I ever expected! I know i'm being quick to say this in such little time, but I may be done!!!


 
 Good for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if your journey is over. Mine on the other hand is not. I am very happy with WA2/T1/HD800 but i will buy more amps in the future.


----------



## Arcamera

joseph69 said:


> I must say, the WA6 is pleasing me very, very much for the little amount of time I've had/listened to it.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## WindyCityCy

Congratulations on your Awesome Woo!  You're in for some great times


----------



## joseph69

Thanks for the congratulations and the cheers guys, greatly appreciate it, and also for everyones positive input on the WA6 before my purchase. I think this is the best purchase I have made since getting into headphones/headphone amplifiers, this amp took my RS1I's to another level for me, and I haven't even tried the 325's or the 80's with it yet, thanks again!


----------



## bbophead

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for the congratulations and the cheers guys, greatly appreciate it, and also for everyones positive input on the WA6 before my purchase. I think this is the best purchase I have made since getting into headphones/headphone amplifiers, this amp took my RS1I's to another level for me, and I haven't even tried the 325's or the 80's with it yet, thanks again!


 
 Welcome to my world!


----------



## Redcarmoose

joseph69 said:


> I must say, the WA6 is pleasing me very, very much for the little amount of time I've had/listened to it. I've actually never heard my music this way, the separation and the texture of the music is just…well like I said,  something I've never heard before with another amp. I've also never heard sub bass like I'm hearing (very subtle) not overwhelming at all and the mids and highs seem spot on for me, and the sound stage is very nice, but still very focused and clear, where I'm able to hear instrument separation in places I've never heard (sounds instruments are outside of my head in the high/low-left/right- front/back and center, if that makes any sense). Also this amp delivers that Grado sound that makes me love Grado, still has that somewhat of attack, but laid back just the right amount, for me. After having the Ear+HD for the short time I had it, I was thinking to myself maybe I'm not a tube kind of guy when switching from my Adcom-710 (which is lightening quick and sharp), and then hearing the Ear+HD (which was very smooth and mellow), I sought of missed that quickness of the SS, but at the same time liked the smoothness and the warmth of the Ear+HD. With the WA6, I find it is falling inbetween both of these amps, and more... much more than I ever expected! I know i'm being quick to say this in such little time, but I may be done!!!



 



Congratulations. Always nice to hear of someone finding the magic in tubes and WooAudio.


----------



## Contrails

Anyone thinking of selling their WA22 in Black? Shoot me a PM.


----------



## kchew

I brought my WA22 to my local Head-fi meet, and I'm pleased that it garnered many positive comments. The biggest surprise was pairing it with the Hifiman HE-6. As I was using GEC 6AS7s, I expected it to be underpowered, but the HE-6 turned out to be on par with my HD800 in terms of resolution, detail retrieval and speed with no clipping and no distortion. Now I really wonder what the HE-6 sounds like with a more powerful amp.


----------



## Metalsludge

Recently got my first Woo, having gone with the WA7 which seems to be popular of late. To be honest, I got this one more for the looks and the convenience as a night table amp without expecting that much from it. But I was really surprised by just how good it sounded. I don't think vocals have ever sounded more real for me than when using a decent source with this amp. Unless I ever try electrostats, I don't think I will be upgrading for a while as this feels like a nice balance between detail and warmth for me.


----------



## Arcamera

metalsludge said:


> this feels like a nice balance between detail and warmth for me.


----------



## joseph69

redcarmoose said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > I must say, the WA6 is pleasing me very, very much for the little amount of time I've had/listened to it. I've actually never heard my music this way, the separation and the texture of the music is just…well like I said,  something I've never heard before with another amp. I've also never heard sub bass like I'm hearing (very subtle) not overwhelming at all and the mids and highs seem spot on for me, and the sound stage is very nice, but still very focused and clear, where I'm able to hear instrument separation in places I've never heard (sounds instruments are outside of my head in the high/low-left/right- front/back and center, if that makes any sense). Also this amp delivers that Grado sound that makes me love Grado, still has that somewhat of attack, but laid back just the right amount, for me. After having the Ear+HD for the short time I had it, I was thinking to myself maybe I'm not a tube kind of guy when switching from my Adcom-710 (which is lightening quick and sharp), and then hearing the Ear+HD (which was very smooth and mellow), I sought of missed that quickness of the SS, but at the same time liked the smoothness and the warmth of the Ear+HD. With the WA6, I find it is falling inbetween both of these amps, and more... much more than I ever expected! I know i'm being quick to say this in such little time, but I may be done!!!
> ...


 
 Thank you, rely something different sounding for me, thanks again.
  


metalsludge said:


> Recently got my first Woo, having gone with the WA7 which seems to be popular of late. To be honest, I got this one more for the looks and the convenience as a night table amp without expecting that much from it. But I was really surprised by just how good it sounded. I don't think vocals have ever sounded more real for me than when using a decent source with this amp. Unless I ever try electrostats, I don't think I will be upgrading for a while as this feels like a nice balance between detail and warmth for me.


 
 I just purchased the WA6, and made the same comment as you did "feels like a nice balance of detail and warmth". To me its like a cross between a SS and tube amp, perfect balance for me. Congratulations on the WA7!


----------



## ardilla

kchew said:


> I brought my WA22 to my local Head-fi meet, and I'm pleased that it garnered many positive comments. The biggest surprise was pairing it with the Hifiman HE-6. As I was using GEC 6AS7s, I expected it to be underpowered, but the HE-6 turned out to be on par with my HD800 in terms of resolution, detail retrieval and speed with no clipping and no distortion. Now I really wonder what the HE-6 sounds like with a more powerful amp.




I really love the HE6 on the WA22 too. I use 5998, VT231 and GZ 34. It is really great. Have heard the HE6 on other amps, but I don't think I lose out on much with the WA22. Bass could get tighter, that's basically it, roughly. Though I haven't heard all the HE6 combos out there, I've tried several powerful headamps (Mjolnir, Taurus, V200) and speaker amps. I think the WA22 is underrated with the HE6 because too many around here is worried about specified wattage when it comes to the HE6. Even if you might do even better with something better, I will not hesitate advising WA22 owners getting a HE6


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA22 and HE-6 is still underpowered and lacking finesse imo. clipping at louder volumes too (i listen pretty loud).
  
 it works somewhat well, better than expected (my WA6-SE clipped immediately as if it was lacking current output), but not amazing. likewise- the glenn otl amp i'm using right now has similar power, but it does struggle and doesn't compare to a 50wpc speaker amp


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> WA22 and HE-6 is still underpowered and lacking finesse imo. clipping at louder volumes too (i listen pretty loud).
> 
> it works somewhat well, better than expected (my WA6-SE clipped immediately as if it was lacking current output), but not amazing. likewise- the glenn otl amp i'm using right now has similar power, but it does struggle and doesn't compare to a 50wpc speaker amp


 
  
 I just must say we disagree on this. I am certain that the WA22 doesa better job than many speaker amps out there. In my ears, with my music, my WA22 and my mind, the HE6+WA22 is a combo worth owning, and I really like it. I feel the HE6 sounds good for its price on the WA22. Maybe it can sound insanely good for its price on other stuff, but that's not too relevant as long as those amps are more expensive, hard to get or some special huge vintage amp. If I have a WA22 I cannot really see why I shouldn't get the HE-6. 
  
 But, as I understand it DG, you listen to quite a lot of bass thumping music at loud levels? Anyway, I don't. So the finesse of the WA22 is certainly there for me. My music, level etc.


----------



## Metalsludge

joseph69 said:


> Thank you, rely something different sounding for me, thanks again.
> 
> I just purchased the WA6, and made the same comment as you did "feels like a nice balance of detail and warmth". To me its like a cross between a SS and tube amp, perfect balance for me. Congratulations on the WA7!


 
 Thanks, yes it was a pleasant surprise that the Woo sound worked so well. Some people insist tubes only offer distracting distortion, but I think they add something to the sound that is worthwhile as well. I am now a convert to Woo and will use their amps if I ever go electrostat.


----------



## koiloco

ardilla said:


> I just must say we disagree on this. I am certain that the WA22 doesa better job than many speaker amps out there. In my ears, with my music, my WA22 and my mind, the HE6+WA22 is a combo worth owning, and I really like it. I feel the HE6 sounds good for its price on the WA22. Maybe it can sound insanely good for its price on other stuff, but that's not too relevant as long as those amps are more expensive, hard to get or some special huge vintage amp. If I have a WA22 I cannot really see why I shouldn't get the HE-6.
> 
> But, as I understand it DG, you listen to quite a lot of bass thumping music at loud levels? Anyway, I don't. So the finesse of the WA22 is certainly there for me. My music, level etc.


 
 Do you really have to crank up the volume knob for the HE-6 on the WA22?


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> (i listen pretty loud).


 
 Sorry for off topic, but please do take care of your hearing. I have developed mild tinnitus since last couple of years & wish I had been more considerate to my ears when younger.


----------



## ardilla

koiloco said:


> Do you really have to crank up the volume knob for the HE-6 on the WA22?




I think I had it mostly set at 12-1 o'clock


----------



## kazsud

punit said:


> Sorry for off topic, but please do take care of your hearing. I have developed mild tinnitus since last couple of years & wish I had been more considerate to my ears when younger.



 


Thanks for the reminder!!


----------



## magiccabbage

ardilla said:


> I think I had it mostly set at 12-1 o'clock


 
 I listen at around 11 but some older classical music needs to be pushed to 1 or 2.


----------



## joseph69

I have the WA6 and keep it on low gain with the Grado's, and usually the volume knob is between 11:00-2:00 o'clock depending on the recording. Also I just placed an order for the 6GL7/Teflon tube adapters, anyone try/have  these tubes in their WA6 and can give me some input on them, thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I remember at the last meet I went to, there was a guy that listened so quietly on the HD 800s, you couldn't even hear the leakage, if you didn't know, you would of thought he had closed headphones, like absolutely zero leakage it was like almost zero volume.


----------



## kchew

koiloco said:


> Do you really have to crank up the volume knob for the HE-6 on the WA22?


 
  
 With 6AS7 drivers, listening to a well-mastered (i.e. slightly soft) CD at slightly above normal volume in a noisy room, I had to crank the volume knob past 5 o'clock.


----------



## ardilla

magiccabbage said:


> ardilla said:
> 
> 
> > I think I had it mostly set at 12-1 o'clock (HE6)
> ...


 
  
 I usually listen to jazz. For rock etc I keep it below 12 too with the HE6


----------



## bbophead

With the WA6 and 325i, eleven is about right with the low impedance switch, can go higher depending on the engineering of the recording.  DT880/600 somewhat higher.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so that first tube comparison thread i've been wanting to make is finally done! 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## Arcamera

Nice DG!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> so that first tube comparison thread i've been wanting to make is finally done!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


 
 Im on it now! thanks


----------



## daverich4

This probably isn't a big deal to those of you that got in on Ultrainferno's 596 group buy but I was pretty pleased with it. It's a fraction of the price I paid for my first one. Not advertised as NOS but looked mint when I got it and it works as it should.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

got lucky i was sleeping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, i would of bought those immediately, guy didn't know the prices and sold them way too cheap, could of easily resold and made $$$
  
 it was 2 of them for that price i think, all the others lately have been selling for 200$ or so


----------



## Silent One

In these circles, it's a very big deal... congrats!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> got lucky i was sleeping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 For that price, I will sell my backup of backup of backup pair.  I was listening to the WA5LE with 596 last night, it is definitely worth it for the amount we paid.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> For that price, I will sell my backup of backup of backup pair.  I was listening to the WA5LE with 596 last night, it is definitely worth it for the amount we paid.


 
  
 skip the 596 and EML though if you decide to stick with WA5, max it out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you can get $300+ for a 596 pair.
  
 get 422A before they're gone. the 800-1000$ pairs are gone and the 400$ singles are gone too. only the taiwanese sellers that have 739$ singles are left.
  
  
 theres a nice pair auction here...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-422A-matching-pair-of-tubes-/331082202256?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d16097c90
  
  
 these would also be very good.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-OB-British-Mullard-GEC-U52-5U4G-Hi-end-Rectifier-Valve-pair-Tubes-/321269411975?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4acd263087
  
 gec label
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-One-pair-GEC-U52-dish-getter-BLACK-BASE-TUBES-5U4G-274B-/261343721656?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd94cb8b8
  
 also theres a 600$ pair of Cossor GZ37 out there.
  
 you can also try a pair of http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mullard-GZ32-%7B47%7D-5V4.html, they're really good and cheap too!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > For that price, I will sell my backup of backup of backup pair.  I was listening to the WA5LE with 596 last night, it is definitely worth it for the amount we paid.
> ...


 
  
  
 Hum, sell two pairs and get the WE422A?  Not a bad idea, now I need to find a pair for around $900.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Hum, sell two pairs and get the WE422A?  Not a bad idea, now I need to find a pair for around $900.


 
  
 an 800$ pair should hopefully pop up soon.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> an 800$ pair should hopefully pop up soon.


 
 Do you honestly think it worth it at 800 dollars?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Hum, sell two pairs and get the WE422A?  Not a bad idea, now I need to find a pair for around $900.
> ...


 
  
 If you see it, let me know...  I can always count on the devils to help me spend my money.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Do you honestly think it worth it at 800 dollars?


 
  
 if you have an endgame tube amp and want the very best out of it and use the very best tubes, if you want that last 10%, then yes!
  
 if not, then no.
  
 but of course, anyone with a WA5/WA5-LE knows they are going to have to spend quite a bit on 300b and 6sn7 anyways


----------



## jc9394

After the WE422A will be the WE421A...


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> if you have an endgame tube amp and want the very best out of it and use the very best tubes, if you want that last 10%, then yes!
> 
> if not, then no.
> 
> but of course, anyone with a WA5/WA5-LE knows they are going to have to spend quite a bit on 300b and 6sn7 anyways


 
 yea, fair point but for me in a Glenn OTL i don't think ill be getting 422a's.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> if you have an endgame tube amp and want the very best out of it and use the very best tubes, if you want that last 10%, then yes!
> 
> if not, then no.
> 
> but of course, anyone with a WA5/WA5-LE knows they are going to have to spend quite a bit on 300b and 6sn7 anyways




So true, the 300B are so expensive.


----------



## Goodjr82

I am jumping into this thread very late... maybe this has been answered but I can't go through all 1928 pages. Does anyone have thoughts on a Woo amp to pair with the LCD3's? I'm not diving into the balanced/unbalanced question...


----------



## magiccabbage

goodjr82 said:


> I am jumping into this thread very late... maybe this has been answered but I can't go through all 1928 pages. Does anyone have thoughts on a Woo amp to pair with the LCD3's? I'm not diving into the balanced/unbalanced question...


 
 WA6-SE/WA22 and WA5/5-LE depends on your budget. Ask frank1 he has all the woo amps at the moment for review, better yet ¬
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/691974/woo-audio-comparison-thread
  
 How much money you willing to dish out?


----------



## Goodjr82

Yeah its all down to the money! I have a vision of the ultimate combo in my head. The LCD3's + Sennheiser HD800's and one amp to drive them both. I may be getting ahead of myself asking about Woo but there is something about those tubes... Anyway I have right now on the way to me in the mail an Eximus DP1 amp/DAC combo. Even though the ink is still wet on the bill I keep thinking about Woo haha. Thanks for the info in the link above.


----------



## ardilla

goodjr82 said:


> Yeah its all down to the money! I have a vision of the ultimate combo in my head. The LCD3's + Sennheiser HD800's and one amp to drive them both. I may be getting ahead of myself asking about Woo but there is something about those tubes... Anyway I have right now on the way to me in the mail an Eximus DP1 amp/DAC combo. Even though the ink is still wet on the bill I keep thinking about Woo haha. Thanks for the info in the link above.


 
  
 I am really happy with the WA22 and the LCD-3, I have tried quite a lot of amps and with the right tubes it is a great match. HD800 is also claimed to be a very good match by many on the WA22, but I haven't heard it more than briefly, so I cannot give advice on that one.


----------



## banger

dubstep girl said:


> if you have an endgame tube amp and want the very best out of it and use the very best tubes, if you want that last 10%, then yes!
> 
> if not, then no.
> 
> but of course, anyone with a WA5/WA5-LE knows they are going to have to spend quite a bit on 300b and 6sn7 anyways


 
 So true, my Royal Princess's let my upgraded WA5-LE reach it's full potential, but at a cost. But hey, we spend what we want on the things we love!


----------



## Frank I

goodjr82 said:


> I am jumping into this thread very late... maybe this has been answered but I can't go through all 1928 pages. Does anyone have thoughts on a Woo amp to pair with the LCD3's? I'm not diving into the balanced/unbalanced question...


 
 The Woo amps I like with the LCD headphones are the WA6SE,WA6,WA5LE and WA5 and the WA22. All of these amplifiers work well with all the Audeze headphones,


----------



## Silent One

banger said:


> So true, my Royal Princess's let my upgraded WA5-LE reach it's full potential, but at a cost. But hey, we spend what we want on the things we love!


 





 Good music... the gear that plays it... can lead to a better you through happy listening. These dividends are _priceless._


----------



## Goodjr82

Great thank you for the advice. I will be following your new thread and your project with Jack and the website. Your listening room looks like heaven if there is such a place!


----------



## Goodjr82

frank i said:


> The Woo amps I like with the LCD headphones are the WA6SE,WA6,WA5LE and WA5 and the WA22. All of these amplifiers work well with all the Audeze headphones,


 
 Whoops I meant to quote you last time. Great thank you for the advice. I will be following your new thread and your project with Jack and the website. Your listening room looks like heaven if there is such a place!


----------



## jc9394

I think the WA6 is underpowered with LCDs. WA6SE is much better.


----------



## joseph69

goodjr82 said:


> Great thank you for the advice. I will be following your new thread and your project with Jack and the website. Your listening room looks like heaven if there is such a place!


 
 FWIW, I just purchased the WA6/Sophia Princess rectifier tube for my RS1i's, and *I've *never heard an amp like this.


----------



## ardilla

goodjr82 said:


> Great thank you for the advice. I will be following your new thread and your project with Jack and the website. *Your listening room looks like heaven if there is such a place!*




From the standing point of a reviewer it looks likea promise of hard work and sore ears....... d%b


----------



## MacedonianHero

ardilla said:


> I am really happy with the WA22 and the LCD-3, I have tried quite a lot of amps and with the right tubes it is a great match. HD800 is also claimed to be a very good match by many on the WA22, but I haven't heard it more than briefly, so I cannot give advice on that one.


 
  
 I really liked the HD800s (and LCD-3s for that matter) with the WA22 when I owned it.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> I really liked the HD800s (and LCD-3s for that matter) with the WA22 when I owned it.




X2, totally agreed. But but but, the HD800 sounds even better with WA5LE.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> X2, totally agreed. But but but, the HD800 sounds even better with WA5LE.


 
 I'm sure it does.


----------



## Goodjr82

ardilla said:


> From the standing point of a reviewer it looks likea promise of hard work and sore ears....... d%b


 
 That is a good point… I take for granted the work that goes into an in-depth review. The only thing remotely approaching that territory is when I audition a new amp in the store. At least a listening room is a nice quiet spot, it has to be to pick up all those subtle details. The store auditions are filled with background chatter.


----------



## Ultrainferno

daverich4 said:


> This probably isn't a big deal to those of you that got in on Ultrainferno's 596 group buy but I was pretty pleased with it. It's a fraction of the price I paid for my first one. Not advertised as NOS but looked mint when I got it and it works as it should.


 
  
   
Nice deal indeed! A long time ago I did two group buys for 596 tubes, but they're all gone now. No more stock anywhere it seems. But we have the RK60 now


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I think the WA6 is underpowered with LCDs. WA6SE is much better.




+1

Audeze with wa6-se was very nice, especially the LCD-2 with the 596 tube


----------



## sunmonkey

Is everyone still here? It looks like it!
  
 Just got back from Malaysia for good last week (I've been working in Kuala Lumpur for the past four years). After a quick peck on the cheek for my wife (priorities!), I ran downstairs and set-up SilentOne's WA6SE and plunked in the Sylvania 6SN7WGTAs. My ears are very happy! And yes, it will always be SilentOne's _Woo Audio 6 Special Edition_ in black.
  
 Anyhoos, hope you all are doing well. Good to see so many of the familiar names still around. I got a lot of catching up to do.  :/


----------



## daverich4

dubstep girl said:


> get 422A before they're gone. the 800-1000$ pairs are gone and the 400$ singles are gone too. only the taiwanese sellers that have 739$ singles are left.


 
 As of this morning they weren't quite out although after I hit the buy button they might be......


----------



## Silent One

sunmonkey said:


> Is everyone still here? It looks like it!
> 
> Just got back from Malaysia for good last week (I've been working in Kuala Lumpur for the past four years). After a quick peck on the cheek for my wife (priorities!), I ran downstairs and set-up SilentOne's WA6SE and plunked in the Sylvania 6SN7WGTAs. My ears are very happy! And yes, it will always be SilentOne's _Woo Audio 6 Special Edition_ in black.
> 
> Anyhoos, hope you all are doing well. Good to see so many of the familiar names still around. I got a lot of catching up to do.  :/


 




 Welcome back, my friend!!! Will do some catching up with you on the PM side...


----------



## musicman59

dubstep girl said:


> skip the 596 and EML though if you decide to stick with WA5, max it out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Are you sure the 422A can be used with the WA5-LE? I don't see them in the compatibility chart in the Woo site.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

> Are you sure the 422A can be used with the WA5-LE? I don't see them in the compatibility chart in the Woo site.


 
  
 yes they are a type of 5U4G also discussion on this page and use in a WA5, according to Jack, 100% compatible.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/10755
  


vinyllp33 said:


> I checked with Jack and he said that even though he has not used them they are 100% compatible, at least with the WA5, so I would see no reason that one could not use one in the WA22.
> 
> Unlike the WE 274B which is not a direct 5U4G sub but often compatible, the 422A is virtually identical to a 5U4G.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

Hi,
 I am new here. I am ready to buy the WA6SE in black. Since headphone is new to me, I would like to have some questions for the experience owners:
 1. Do I need a preamp with the WA6se?
 2. Can I use it with the Audeze LCD-2?
 3. If I dont need a preamp, then how many inputs does the WA6se have? I need to run it both with LPs and CDs.
 4. What headphone is the best match with the WA6SE?
 Thanks,
 Calvin


----------



## magiccabbage

dangcaonguyen said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I am new here. I am ready to buy the WA6SE in black. Since headphone is new to me, I would like to have some questions for the experience owners:
> ...






1 - no


2 - yes


3 - not too sure i think 2


4 - some people really like lcd2 actually but with the right tubes i presume hd800 t1 and lots of others like grado would sound great.


----------



## joseph69

Hi, I recently purchased the WA6 and it was as quit as could be for the first few days…then I noticed the amp was humming/buzzing, *(not through the headphones, they are dead silent)*, so I let Woo know, and I was told it could be AC/RF interference. So last night when I turned it on I could hear it from 3 feet away and it was consistent the whole time it was on, about 2hrs. So tonight I took the amp out of my system and plugged it into 3 different AC outlets with nothing connected/near it, and it immediately started to hum/buzz, and it sounds like it is coming from the transformer on top. I don't believe this should be, does anyone have this issue with their WA6, or other Woo amps? Thanks.
 BTW, I'm asking before I contact Woo again, I would just like to hear what other owners have experienced, like I said I don't believe this should be!


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

magiccabbage said:


> dangcaonguyen said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
 Thanks,
 HD800 is over my budget now. What do you think of between HD600 or HD650? which is better?


----------



## jc9394

joseph69 said:


> Hi, I recently purchased the WA6 and it was as quit as could be for the first few days…then I noticed the amp was humming/buzzing, *(not through the headphones, they are dead silent)*, so I let Woo know, and I was told it could be AC/RF interference. So last night when I turned it on I could hear it from 3 feet away and it was consistent the whole time it was on, about 2hrs. So tonight I took the amp out of my system and plugged it into 3 different AC outlets with nothing connected/near it, and it immediately started to hum/buzz, and it sounds like it is coming from the transformer on top. I don't believe this should be, does anyone have this issue with their WA6, or other Woo amps? Thanks.
> BTW, I'm asking before I contact Woo again, I would just like to hear what other owners have experienced, like I said I don't believe this should be!




Do you have a dimmer?


----------



## jc9394

dangcaonguyen said:


> Thanks,
> HD800 is over my budget now. What do you think of between HD600 or HD650? which is better?





dangcaonguyen said:


> Thanks,
> HD800 is over my budget now. What do you think of between HD600 or HD650? which is better?




HD650 is bass heavy, I personally prefer HD600.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

jc9394 said:


> HD650 is bass heavy, I personally prefer HD600.


 
 Thank you,
 Now I have the WA6SE in black and the HD600. You mentioned about the tubes, can you reccomend which tubes should I try on the amp. I listen mostly to Jazz and Classical and Vocal.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Do you have a dimmer?


 
 +1   And GFI outlets?


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> Do you have a dimmer?


 
 Do you mean a light dimmer switch, if so, yes, but those lights are never on, and I moved the amp to 3 different AC outlets/rooms disconnected from any other components, and it does the same thing, and this only started happening after 2 days of use, otherwise when I first received it the amp was dead silent., now I hear it from 3 feet away. What about the dimmer switch?


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> +1   And GFI outlets?


 
 No it is not on a GFI. 
 I have it plugged into an AC line enhancer (Adcom ACE-515), but it does this in any outlet, in any room disconnected from all components.


----------



## Silent One

To eliminate to possibility of EMI/RFI, I'd take the amp to another building (home, office, library ect) and see if the hum varies or disappears. I also wouldn't rule out the transformer itself humming, but only after changing the AC and environment.


----------



## joseph69

Thank you for the suggestion, That was going to be my next move.
 Am I correct, this should not be making any noise at all, right? Thanks.


----------



## atomicbob

joseph69 said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, That was going to be my next move.
> Am I correct, this should not be making any noise at all, right? Thanks.



Basic question. Is the noise heard in the headphones or is it mechanical in origin from the amp chassis rather than the headphones?


----------



## Silent One

He mentioned the noise being external; not through cans, and can hear it up to 3 feet away.


----------



## joseph69

atomicbob said:


> Basic question. Is the noise heard in the headphones or is it mechanical in origin from the amp chassis rather than the headphones?


 
 Yes, only external noise, the headphones are dead silent.


----------



## jc9394

dangcaonguyen said:


> Thank you,
> Now I have the WA6SE in black and the HD600. You mentioned about the tubes, can you reccomend which tubes should I try on the amp. I listen mostly to Jazz and Classical and Vocal.




6FD7 and Mullard GZ34 (metal base if you can afford it)


----------



## Clayton SF

joseph69 said:


> Hi, I recently purchased the WA6 and it was as quit as could be for the first few days…then I noticed the amp was humming/buzzing, *(not through the headphones, they are dead silent)*, so I let Woo know, and I was told it could be AC/RF interference. So last night when I turned it on I could hear it from 3 feet away and it was consistent the whole time it was on, about 2hrs. So tonight I took the amp out of my system and plugged it into 3 different AC outlets with nothing connected/near it, and it immediately started to hum/buzz, and it sounds like it is coming from the transformer on top. I don't believe this should be, does anyone have this issue with their WA6, or other Woo amps? Thanks.
> BTW, I'm asking before I contact Woo again, I would just like to hear what other owners have experienced, like I said I don't believe this should be!


 
  
 My WA6 hummed just like yours when I first got it in 2009. I could hear it from a foot away. A friend suggested that I open the top of the transformer box and tighten the screw to the transformer and only if I knew what I was doing. So I didn't do anything. The hum got louder and softer depending on the rectifier I used. It still hums but I just ignore it. It doesn't bother me anymore after owning it for almost 4 years.


----------



## joseph69

clayton sf said:


> My WA6 hummed just like yours when I first got it in 2009. I could hear it from a foot away. A friend suggested that I open the top of the transformer box and tighten the screw to the transformer and only if I knew what I was doing. So I didn't do anything. The hum got louder and softer depending on the rectifier I used. It still hums but I just ignore it. It doesn't bother me anymore after owning it for almost 4 years.


 
 Thank you, after I try it out in a different house all together, if the amp is still noisy I'll open the top cover  and see if the screws are loose, because this just should not be humming like this one is, maybe a slight hum, maybe, but not this loud, thanks .


----------



## atomicbob

joseph69 said:


> Yes, only external noise, the headphones are dead silent.


 
 Most of the suggestions you have received address electrical sources of noise which would be heard in the headphones. Clayton SF is on the right track for addressing a mechanical issue, which is what you have. Something, most likely the transformer, is vibrating causing a mechanically generated noise to be emitted.


----------



## 2359glenn

joseph69 said:


> Thank you, after I try it out in a different house all together, if the amp is still noisy I'll open the top cover  and see if the screws are loose, because this just should not be humming like this one is, maybe a slight hum, maybe, but not this loud, thanks .


 

 Almost all 50/60hz transformers have a slight hum. I don't think trying it in another house is going
 to make a bit of difference. It is a issue with the power transformer.


----------



## joseph69

atomicbob said:


> Most of the suggestions you have received address electrical sources of noise which would be heard in the headphones. Clayton SF is on the right track for addressing a mechanical issue, which is what you have. Something, most likely the transformer, is vibrating causing a mechanically generated noise to be emitted.


 
 I'm actually going to use the advise given to Clayton SF's advise and remove the transformer cover and see if the transformer itself is loose, thank you.
  


2359glenn said:


> Almost all 50/60hz transformers have a slight hum. I don't think trying it in another house is going
> to make a bit of difference. It is a issue with the power transformer.


 
 Thanks for the info, I believe it is also the power transformer, thank you.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Please make sure you know what you're doing before opening up your amp.  I know it isn't a terribly difficult task, but there can be lethal voltages on transformers and caps can hold charge for a long time after you have unplugged the unit.  Just sayin'.


----------



## Clayton SF

galaxyguy said:


> Please make sure you know what you're doing before opening up your amp.  I know it isn't a terribly difficult task, but there can be lethal voltages on transformers and caps can hold charge for a long time after you have unplugged the unit.  Just sayin'.


 

 Yes. Thanks for that warning, GalaxyGuy. That the reason that I didn't open my WA6. A bit of a chicken when it comes to electronics. I leave that to the experts.


----------



## joseph69

galaxyguy said:


> Please make sure you know what you're doing before opening up your amp.  I know it isn't a terribly difficult task, but there can be lethal voltages on transformers and caps can hold charge for a long time after you have unplugged the unit.  Just sayin'.


 
 Thank you for your warning, I was an elevator repair/maintenance person for 18 years…believe me I've had my share of experience with being ZAPPED from the control boards when I was green, and it can be *deadly*, and it isn't too pleasant being ZAPPED either, LOL!!!
 Anyway before I opened it, I was in contact with Jack from Woo, so I'm going to resolve this with him, I'm just waiting to hear back from him, thank again.


----------



## bbophead

My WA6 has always been dead quiet no matter where it sits or what it's plugged into.  It does sound like the power transformer could be loose.  Good luck!


----------



## prosperone

Woo Audio Wa5 + Hifiman HE-6 = Luscious Goodness
  
 Well after months of contemplation I finally picked up a pair of HE-6.  I strongly considered the HD800, and thought about waiting for one of next year's offerings  (AKG K812, Senn's next flagship, a new Hifiman, the Oppo PM1...). 
  
 Before getting on to the sound, just a few observations on the *decision making process* especially as it relates to Head-fi.  I spent countless hours literally reading every post of every thread relating to these and other contenders.  I went through the same with other sites.  Sifting through the good, the bad, the hype and the truth was no small task.  That said, I do think in large part, the truth can be ferreted out on this site. 
  
 I think what makes deciding on A vs. B difficult though is distinguishing between how a headphone is on the whole, and what really amount to small (however valid) criticisms.  At the level of the HE-6 and other high level headphones I have found the sound to be exceptional (LCD, Senn, Hifiman, BD T1, Denon 7000...).  Are some better than others? Clearly and generally their price seems to reflect this.  Different flavors?  Absolutely!  Some much more suited to certain situations?  100%, I love the Denon ADH7000 for movies, the T1 for all around extremely comfortable listening, and  now the HE-6 for really hearing the music really come alive. 
  
 That said some of the critiques of headphones at this level seem to focus on one small but measurable flaw.  I feel that perhaps this overly clouds the decision making process, when in its absence you would clearly lean in one direction or the other.  In other words sometimes I feel like a glorious headphone gets tainted by some small critique.  Once however its listened to, the shortcomings may exist, but largely drop out of view (unless you have ears which are sensitive to treble spikes, or your amp isn't well matched to the load).  I think the criticisms of headphones are very important.  However, I think its equally important to develop an ability to put them in proper context.  Something I keep reminding myself of.
  
 In short I guess what I'm trying to convey to those who find themselves similarly gripped when trying to decide between headphone A&B is - buy the one you are leaning towards and see if you like it.  If you've done your research on here, you probably have a pretty good answer in hand.  At the end of the day though nothing beats sitting down and listening. 
  
 With that, thanks to all who make this site so rich with information. 
  
 Now onto my impressions... Big picture, I love this headphone!!!
  
 1)* Can the Woo Audio WA5 drive the HE-6*?  In my opinion absolutely 100% yes.  I'm running them out of the K1000 jack.  I'm barely turning the dial.  I'm hearing details in the music that have otherwise escaped me on recordings I've listened to for years.  I don't think there should be any doubt in any one's mind that this is the case. Could it be better?  My pocket book hopes not.  Lets put it this way, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.   I can't speak for the WA5LE which does not have the K1000 jack.
 2)  *How is the sound*?  Its early in the listening process now.  Top to bottom it feels smooth, detailed, neutral to slightly warm.  I can hear every little detail.  The headphone is quite fast, every note starts and stops within its designated space within the recording.  The layering is fantastic, I can hear cymbals, guitar strings and voices all in the same beat very distinctly.  Each instrument is easy to follow individually and as a group.  On jazz recordings its as if you are at the front table, the trumpet is in your ear ( in a good way) (Sonny Side Up).  On Dire Straits Love over Gold the same all held true.  You could hear the gravel in Mark's voice, fingers sliding down guitar strings between notes, cymbals sounded right, drums good...  The tonality of instruments is very good, saxaphones take on the right shape (Dodo Green, My Hour of Need).  Voices are round and open.  Base strings, voice and piano play well together - clear distinctive notes, right tone, speed, dynamics, very very clean (Armstrong & Ellington - The Great Summit).  Very very enjoyable sound.
 3) *Comfort*.  At first felt a little tight, but head adjusted quickly.  I'm conscious its on my head though.  Whereas the T1 dissappears and the DH7000 pretty much float on your head.  The sound quality outweighs the comfort issues.  That said, I can see myself reaching for the T1s if I'm just in for a comfortable ride.  I'm not sure I could wear these for 8hrs a day.  With the T1s I could. 
 4) *Open Questions* - How much difference would the HD800 sound stage make to me??? Trade offs...
 5) *Small nags* - The stock cord if you are just running XLR is quite short.  Hifiman and others offer longer cords but at a steep price. An option of a longer XLR cord at initial purchase, or a slightly longer cord would be nice.  (You get a couple extra feet if you are running 1/4 inch). 
  
 Thx all - peace and good listening...


----------



## koiloco

^gratz! you got a killer combo there.  Enjoy your music.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

Just ordered the Wa6se in black directly from Woo Audio Website. So excited. Now i am shopping for the headphone. Now I am a 5 years old waiting for my Christmas presents.


----------



## koiloco

dangcaonguyen said:


> Just ordered the Wa6se in black directly from Woo Audio Website. So excited. Now i am shopping for the headphone. Now I am a 5 years old waiting for my Christmas presents.


 
 HE-500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or the AD or HD800 ...Abundant choices.  Your amp will come fast.


----------



## joseph69

bbophead said:


> My WA6 has always been dead quiet no matter where it sits or what it's plugged into.  It does sound like the power transformer could be loose.  Good luck!


 
 I'm between e-mails with Jack about this, and he did say someone else was having the same issue, unfortunately I my send it back to him, I just can't win lately with my amp purchases, LOL!!!
  BTW, is anyone using SAFARI having quitting issues when replying/quoting to Head-Fi?


----------



## koiloco

joseph69 said:


> I'm between e-mails with Jack about this, and he did say someone else was having the same issue, unfortunately I my send it back to him, I just can't win lately with my amp purchases, LOL!!!
> BTW, is anyone using SAFARI having quitting issues when replying/quoting to Head-Fi?


 
 SAFARI? Mac?  I did have some problem with quoting yesterday.  It's all good today though.


----------



## joseph69

koiloco said:


> SAFARI? Mac?  I did have some problem with quoting yesterday.  It's all good today though.


 
 Yes , Safari on my MBP.
 While I'm quoting/replying, Safari quites on me unexpectedly, it even happened twice while I was replying back to you just now!
 Was this the issue you had also? Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

prosperone said:


> Woo Audio Wa5 + Hifiman HE-6 = Luscious Goodness
> 
> Well after months of contemplation I finally picked up a pair of HE-6.  I strongly considered the HD800, and thought about waiting for one of next year's offerings  (AKG K812, Senn's next flagship, a new Hifiman, the Oppo PM1...).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats prosperone, thoughtfully presented. Regarding No.5....._ t-r-u-e. _I went for a custom Wireworld cable @ 10ft. And pigtails @ 1M. When I need to tap the vintage receiver, I've got just over 13 ft - both 10ft & 13ft are perfect for my space!


----------



## prosperone

silent one said:


> Congrats prosperone, thoughtfully presented. Regarding No.5....._ t-r-u-e. _I went for a custom Wireworld cable @ 10ft. And pigtails @ 1M. When I need to tap the vintage receiver, I've got just over 13 ft - both 10ft & 13ft are perfect for my space!


 

 Thanks Silent One.  I'll look into the Wireworld cables.  Those lengths sound just about right for me.  I definitely  appreciated your postings during this venture. I've not spent a lot of time on other community boards like this.  I have however come to realize what an amazing place Headfi is.  The platform, technology, UI, people and knowledge make it something special.  I hope that other hobbies are this blessed.


----------



## koiloco

joseph69 said:


> Yes , Safari on my MBP.
> While I'm quoting/replying, Safari quites on me unexpectedly, it even happened twice while I was replying back to you just now!
> Was this the issue you had also? Thanks.


 
 I tested on my ipad and quoting worked fine.  On my windows PC, sometimes quoting function did not work but didn't crash chrome.  It did crash the page/tab though so I had to close the page/tab and reopen the thread.


----------



## Silent One

prosperone said:


> Thanks Silent One.  I'll look into the Wireworld cables.  Those lengths sound just about right for me.  I definitely  appreciated your postings during this venture. I've not spent a lot of time on other community boards like this.  I have however come to realize what an amazing place Headfi is.  The platform, technology, UI, people and knowledge make it something special.  I hope that other hobbies are this blessed.


 
 There's certainly some fine cable options out there for the HE-6. I meant to highlight the length of my cabling, and simply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





threw in the make. Will be excited to hear what you chose when the time comes...


----------



## joseph69

I've been on the phone with Apple about this 3 times today, they say that the Mac is fine, so I'll see what happens, thanks for the info!


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> Yes , Safari on my MBP.
> While I'm quoting/replying, Safari quites on me unexpectedly, it even happened twice while I was replying back to you just now!
> Was this the issue you had also? Thanks.


 
 I been having that problem on the iMac since they changed the oS system


----------



## kazsud

prosperone said:


> Woo Audio Wa5 + Hifiman HE-6 = Luscious Goodness
> 
> Well after months of contemplation I finally picked up a pair of HE-6.  I strongly considered the HD800, and thought about waiting for one of next year's offerings  (AKG K812, Senn's next flagship, a new Hifiman, the Oppo PM1...).
> 
> ...




I found this pairing to be incredible


----------



## kazsud

Just reset safari


----------



## joseph69

kazsud said:


> Just reset safari


 
 I've rest t it 3 times, this is the only time this happens, otherwise the Mac is fine, I'll reset again, thanks.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

koiloco said:


> HE-500   or the AD or HD800 ...Abundant choices.  Your amp will come fast.



HE-500 or Hd-700, or gs1000i, which is better?


----------



## Joshhh

All three are great cans so it really comes down to personal preference on sound sigs. I personally prefer the HE-500s but that's just me. I have not heard the GS1000s in a long time though.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

joshhh said:


> All three are great cans so it really comes down to personal preference on sound sigs. I personally prefer the HE-500s but that's just me. I have not heard the GS1000s in a long time though.


 

 Thanks,
 I prefer the warm sound. Base on your experiences, which one will satisfy my need.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dangcaonguyen said:


> HE-500 or Hd-700, or gs1000i, which is better?


 
  
 haven't heard the HD 700, but for sure the HE-500 put the GS1000 to shame, IMO.


----------



## koiloco

joshhh said:


> All three are great cans so it really comes down to personal preference on sound sigs. I personally prefer the HE-500s but that's just me. I have not heard the GS1000s in a long time though.


 

 What he said +1


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> haven't heard the HD 700, but for sure the HE-500 put the GS1000 to shame, IMO.


 

 and then, there's DG's opinion which I concur even with my brief exposure with the GS1000.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

Thank you all of you for the help.
I just ordered the HE-500 from Musicdirect. Since i switch from the 2 chanels system to headphone, i hope that i will not be dissapointed.


----------



## koiloco

dangcaonguyen said:


> Thank you all of you for the help.
> I just ordered the HE-500 from Musicdirect. Since i switch from the 2 chanels system to headphone, i hope that i will not be dissapointed.


 
 Different type of enjoyment.  I've found headphone to be very convenient, especially late at night.  Also, it's easier and cost less to have pretty good sound quality.  I was heavy into home theater/2 channel stuffs before and the hole in my pocket is still visible till this day.


----------



## joseph69

Just received the #1 option:6GL7 x2 driver tubes, plus 2 adapters from Woo for the WA6. I only tried the tubes for a couple of hrs, not sure if I like them yet, need to spend some more time with them, they seem to have a little too much bass for me, and less highs, (veiled) to me for now. When I received the amp I got the 6EW7's and the S/P rectifier tube, and right out of the box I loved the way it sounded. I know the 6EW7's/6GL7's both need to burn-in as well as the S/P, so I will probably keep the 6GL7's (I was going to return them) and let them burn-in for awhile before jumping to any conclusions.


----------



## magiccabbage

joseph69 said:


> Just received the #1 option from Woo, only tried the tubes for a couple of hrs, not sure if I like them yet, need to spend some more time with them, they seem to have a little too much bass for me, (I think).


 
 which amp?


----------



## joseph69

magiccabbage said:


> which amp?


 
 Sorry, I just edited my last post, with the correct info.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

joseph69 said:


> Just received the #1 option:6GL7 x2 driver tubes, plus 2 adapters from Woo for the WA6. I only tried the tubes for a couple of hrs, not sure if I like them yet, need to spend some more time with them, they seem to have a little too much bass for me, and less highs, (veiled) to me for now. When I received the amp I got the 6EW7's and the S/P rectifier tube, and right out of the box I loved the way it sounded. I know the 6EW7's/6GL7's both need to burn-in as well as the S/P, so I will probably keep the 6GL7's (I was going to return them) and let them burn-in for awhile before jumping to any conclusions.





Yup bassy tube, fun but can get muddy especially with sophia


----------



## joseph69

Yeah the ad from Woo say it adds detail and smoothness, but I feel there is so much bass that it takes away from the detail and the highs IMO. I just listened to them with my 80i's and they sounded nice together, then again the 80i's sound nice to me no matter what you throw at them. Later I'm going to do more listening with these tubes and the RS's. I haven't listened to the 325's with the WA6 at all yet, so I have some listening to do tonight with some different combos.


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> Yeah the ad from Woo say it adds detail and smoothness, but I feel there is so much bass that it takes away from the detail and the highs IMO. I just listened to them with my 80i's and they sounded nice together, then again the 80i's sound nice to me no matter what you throw at them. Later I'm going to do more listening with these tubes and the RS's. I haven't listened to the 325's with the WA6 at all yet, so I have some listening to do tonight with some different combos.


 
  
 At some point - after the initial ice cream & cake listening session - make a selection and stick with it for 21 days and then switch 'em out.


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> At some point - after the initial ice cream & cake listening session - make a selection and stick with it for 21 days and then switch 'em out.


 
 I'm going to listen with these tubes tonight, and for as long as I can before the return policy expires, but right off the bat with the RS's the bass veils everything, but they may be keepers just for the 80i's.


----------



## Silent One

Rollin'... could be a whole lotta fun, wish you the best!


----------



## joseph69

Thank you!


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy Sunday.
 It's Woo Audio 4 time!
 It's a beautiful morning.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Happy Sunday.
> It's Woo Audio 4 time!
> It's a beautiful morning.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have been looking at 6C19 for a DIY project and came across the 4 from Woo. I have three Woo here (22, 2, 6se). Any comments on how the 4 fits into this brigade...never heard a 4.


----------



## Clayton SF

nic rhodes said:


> I have been looking at 6C19 for a DIY project and came across the 4 from Woo. I have three Woo here (22, 2, 6se). Any comments on how the 4 fits into this brigade...never heard a 4.


 
  
 I  have the 6, 22, and had the 2. I also have two versions of the 4.
  
_*The WA4 (2004) *_uses the 6C19, 12AU7, and 6DJ8 tubes.
_*The WA4 (2011)*_ uses the 6C19, 12AU7, and EZ80 (rectifier).
  
 I've never heard the 6se. I would say that the WA4 (2004), to my ear, is closer to the WA22. The WA22 may have an edge because of the rectifier (5U4). But my WA4 has been modded and has Black Gate caps and V-Caps so it has a strong bottom as well. Here are pictures of the WA4 that I purchased. http://www.head-fi.org/t/517160/sold-woo-audio-wa4-upgraded-amp
  
 The WA4 (2011) has a cleaner sound (it uses the EZ81 or EZ82 rectifier) placing it closer to the WA2 but with a slightly warmer presence.


----------



## magiccabbage

nic rhodes said:


> I have been looking at 6C19 for a DIY project and came across the 4 from Woo. I have three Woo here (22, 2, 6se). Any comments on how the 4 fits into this brigade...never heard a 4.


 
 it is not possible to buy the 4 anymore. Jack says that there are not enough parts to make the build. So its a no go unless you buy it second hand


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Happy Sunday.
> ...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

magiccabbage said:


> it is not possible to buy the 4 anymore. Jack says that there are not enough parts to make the build. So its a no go unless you buy it second hand


 

 yes I know that but am interested how it stands up to my other Woos as looking at the 6C19 valve may make an interesting DIY project.
  
 Thanks Clayton, very interesting comments, seems like it is a quality piece then The chance of finding second hand for 240v are slim but has me thinking.....may buy some of these triodes to try.


----------



## Clayton SF

nic rhodes said:


> Thanks Clayton, very interesting comments, seems like it is a quality piece then The chance of finding second hand for 240v are slim but has me thinking.....may buy some of these triodes to try.


 
  
 All of my Woo Audio amps have a voltage selector for AC 110v/220v. Would a WA4 220v amp be okay powered at 240v?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Actually 252v...... and legit.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

Just received emails from woo audio and music direct. The amp and headphone will both be delivered on Friday. I am very excited. On the way of searching for the tubes for wa6se, i saw the Phillips 274b NOS at Upscale Audio with a very good price. Does anyone know how good is this tube compare to the Sophia Princess? Also, any sound differences between the Sophia mesh plate to the Sophia Solid plate?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

its pretty good, warmer and tubier.
  
 try the GZ32 at upscale as well, i like that one alot.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

dubstep girl said:


> its pretty good, warmer and tubier.
> 
> try the GZ32 at upscale as well, i like that one alot.



Thank you, i will pick up those two to put on my wa6se to compare. Just to be sure, are they all compatible with my wa6se, i am so confused since there are so many of the tube rectifiers.


----------



## ardilla

dangcaonguyen said:


> Thank you, i will pick up those two to put on my wa6se to compare. Just to be sure, are they all compatible with my wa6se, i am so confused since there are so many of the tube rectifiers.


 
  

*WOO AUDIO Tube Compatibility Chart : Chart*
 
  
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## koiloco

For driver on the WA22, I personally prefer Kenrad VT231 black glass over RCA grey glass.


----------



## Dangcaonguyen

ardilla said:


> *WOO AUDIO Tube Compatibility Chart : Chart*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link. Its a big help. I am very clear now.


----------



## joseph69

Hi, I recently purchased the 6GL7/6EM7 driver tubes for my WA6 to go with the S/P, and I didn't really care for the overwhelming overall bass presence in general. I returned them and am now listening to the 6EW7 driver tubes I received stock with the amp and I do like them, but I would like to try something with a little warmer midrange for vocals, and a more impactful, tighter bass with a bit more extended highs. If anyone has had/have experience with the sound signature I'm describing, can you please give me some suggestions if they can be found on the link below, thank you.
  
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## joseph69

Anybody?


----------



## Frank I

Joseph,
  
  
 The option to use 6SN7 tubes with the WA6 by using the adapters are perfect. Their are many 6SN7 tubes that will accomplish your objective. The Sylvania 6sn7WGT would be an excellent choice or another less expensive option would be the WQestinghouse 6SN7 tubes and can be sourced form ebay.


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Joseph,
> 
> 
> The option to use 6SN7 tubes with the WA6 by using the adapters are perfect. Their are many 6SN7 tubes that will accomplish your objective. The Sylvania 6sn7WGT would be an excellent choice or another less expensive option would be the WQestinghouse 6SN7 tubes and can be sourced form ebay.


 
 Thank you for your reply and information, I will look into these Tubes/adapters, thanks again.


----------



## Frank I

No problem Joseph. let me know how you go with hit and I would be glad to offer some more suggestions.


----------



## joseph69

Frank, I just looked on eBay and found these:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-1950-51-Raytheon-6SN7GT-tubes-Shinny-Black-P-Copper-Grids-Bottom-/360754670040?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53fea769d8
  
 Would I be better off purchasing these tubes, instead of the tubes from Woo, do you know if these are a "better" tube, them=n I can purchase the adapters from Woo?
 Obviously I've just gotten into this and would like to understand the differences in tube Build/sound, thank you, Joseph.


----------



## Frank I

There wis a 6SN7 thread and people that have used those. There are these available on ebay as ewell and these are highly sought after2 NEW IN BOX SYLVANIA 6SN7 WGT NOS. OCTAL PREAMP TUBES.  you can also get great advise here on this headfi thread regarding 6SN&. I prefer the tung sol black glass plate 6sn7 but they ruin 325.00 pair but check this out as well.6SN7 Tube Addicts


----------



## musicman59

IMO those Brown Base/ChromeTop WGT Sylvania are much better than the Raytheon.


----------



## Frank I

The price does not look too bad and the guys feedback is good too. 
  I have some hoc eWestinghouse tubes that are not all that bad either. I got like 5 of them new in the box


----------



## joseph69

Thanks again for  the info and the site, I appreciate it very much, both of you!!


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> IMO those Brown Base/ChromeTop WGT Sylvania are much better than the Raytheon.


 
 Are either of these tubes below, the ones you are talking about? I can't seem to find the Brown Plate. Thank you.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-6SN7GT-6SN7-CHROME-TOP-MATCHED-PAIR-BLACK-PLATE-USA-Tubes-/290975114895?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf77e68f
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-1951-53-Sylvania-Magnavox-6SN7GT-tubes-the-Bad-Boy-/360639234497?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53f7c601c1


----------



## Frank I

Joseph the ones I sent you earlier are the others are not as good2 NEW IN BOX SYLVANIA 6SN7 WGT NOS. OCTAL PREAMP TUBES


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Joseph the ones I sent you earlier are the others are not as good2 NEW IN BOX SYLVANIA 6SN7 WGT NOS. OCTAL PREAMP TUBES


 
 Frank, I will still need to purchase the 9 pin to 8 pin tube adapters before buying these, correct? Thanks, sorry to drive you nuts.


----------



## Frank I

You can buy them now and order the adapter from Woo now and have both close to the same time.


----------



## bbophead

@ Joseph  
  
 I think DSG and I both suggesed the 6FD7 for tighter bass.  Did you try them?


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> You can buy them now and order the adapter from Woo now and have both close to the same time.


 
 Frank, thank you, I purchased the tubes from eBay already and I'm waiting for Woo to contact me about the adapters, being I don't see on their site how to order just the adapters without the tubes from them. I'm in Staten, Island N.Y. and the tube seller is in Brooklyn, N.Y. so I should have them very shortly. Thanks for all of your help/suggestions, and I'll let you know how I like them after burn-in time. Thanks again and Happy Holidays, Joseph.


----------



## joseph69

bbophead said:


> @ Joseph
> 
> I think DSG and I both suggesed the 6FD7 for tighter bass.  Did you try them?


 
 No, I haven't, but I am also going to order them.
 Was their a particular brand/year or NOS that I should buy? 
 Also would these a direct fit in the WA6, or do I need an adapter? Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## bbophead

joseph69 said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > @ Joseph
> ...


 
 Not that I am aware.  Just get a matched pair and see what happens.  Shouldn't be expensive.


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> Frank, thank you, I purchased the tubes from eBay already and I'm waiting for Woo to contact me about the adapters, being I don't see on their site how to order just the adapters without the tubes from them. I'm in Staten, Island N.Y. and the tube seller is in Brooklyn, N.Y. so I should have them very shortly. Thanks for all of your help/suggestions, and I'll let you know how I like them after burn-in time. Thanks again and Happy Holidays, Joseph.


 
 Great and enjoy them


----------



## koiloco

Strange thing happened to me on the WA22 tonite.  
  
 1.  I paused my music and heard humming from my HE500.  More in the left cup.
 2.  Power cycle the amp.  Disconnect all sources.  No difference.
 3.  Pull the *left* driver tube (recently purchased ken rad VT 231).  Replace it with a Raytheon.
 4.  Turn amp back on.  Voila.  No more humming.  Dead quite.
 5.  Got curious.  Move the right driver tube (ken rad) to left.  Put the ken rad that was in left driver in step#3 into the right driver.
 6.  No more humming either.
  
 WTH???
  
 Hope you experts could give some insights.


----------



## Frank I

Sound alike the Ken rad tube is bad.


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> Sound alike the Ken rad tube is bad.


 
 If it was then why did the humming stopped when I put it on the right channel?  That's the part that got me.


----------



## Frank I

The other tubes are working. Try cleaning the tube pin on the Ken Rad and see what happens.if it does it with the other tubes then I would say it need to be looked at. Let me know if that happens and I will ask Jack what could be causing it. He out of town till 12/26. here is a thread to clean the pinsCleaning Vacuum Tube Pins? - Head-Fi. Sometime it could be the pin and another old school trick would be to use  a pencil eraser I have done that and it works.  If it still doing that and the other tubes front it has to be the tube.


----------



## loveislove

my wa22 is on its way


----------



## koiloco

loveislove said:


> my wa22 is on its way


 






 You will enjoy it greatly.  I have, every night for hours.  Different tubes can significantly the sound signature.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

joseph69 said:


> No, I haven't, but I am also going to order them.
> Was their a particular brand/year or NOS that I should buy?
> Also would these a direct fit in the WA6, or do I need an adapter? Thanks for the reminder.


 
  
 i think jack still stocks the Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7 which is the ones i had. (i believe his are unlabeled in westinghouse boxes, regardless, they are sylvania tubes). 
  
 its the best tube i tried to the WA6/WA6-SE, very well balanced and neutral with great bass and treble. the 6ew7 would be my second favorite.
  
 the 6dr7 was also nice, but lacks bass.


----------



## CH23

koiloco said:


> Strange thing happened to me on the WA22 tonite.
> 
> 1.  I paused my music and heard humming from my HE500.  More in the left cup.
> 2.  Power cycle the amp.  Disconnect all sources.  No difference.
> ...




Sounds to me like a simple re-seating of the tube would've done the trick.


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> i think jack still stocks the Sylvania fat bottle 6FD7 which is the ones i had. (i believe his are unlabeled in westinghouse boxes, regardless, they are sylvania tubes).
> 
> its the best tube i tried to the WA6/WA6-SE, very well balanced and neutral with great bass and treble. the 6ew7 would be my second favorite.
> 
> the 6dr7 was also nice, but lacks bass.


 
 Thank you, I've been having a hard time finding the 6FD7, I looked on eBay with no luck, then I looked on Brent Jesse Tubes and didn't see the 6DF7's, and also looked on Woo's site and there is no mention of them there either. I'm waiting for the Sylvania 6SN7WGT NOS tube which I ordered yesterday, on the advise of *Frank l *(thanks), but I also need the adapter from the 6DE7 to 6SN7 for this tube, but I don't see how to order just the adapters (without) the tubes from Woo's website. I did e-mail them yesterday, but I'm waiting for a response.
 I also ordered another set of 6EW7's for back up, which came with my WA6, and I also happen to like their sound also, but do want to explore a bit.
 BTW, I returned the 6GL7/6EM7 tubes, which just had too much overall bass for me.
 I'm going to send another e-mail to Woo asking about the 6DF7 "fat bottles" today, thanks for the advise/help, I greatly appreciate it, thank you.
  .


----------



## Frank I

Joseph i will forward you post to Jack. he is on vacation and back ion 12/26 but he will let me know if we have them in stock. I got you covered.


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Joseph i will forward you post to Jack. he is on vacation and back ion 12/26 but he will let me know if we have them in stock. I got you covered.


 
 Frank, thank you very much, I wasn't going to send another e-mail because I read your post stating he was on vacation, so I knew thats why I didn't get a response.
 So if you do contact him I would be looking to purchase the 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapters (for the tubes you recommended, thanks) and the 6DF7 "fat bottle" driver/power tubes. I must have sent him the e-mail to purchase the 6EW7 back up tubes while he was on vacation, because I know the 6GL7/6EM7 tubes I returned arrived at his location (I searched with the USPS tracking#), but I never received a reply/tubes from him. 
Once again, thank you very much Frank for covering me.


----------



## Frank I

No problem  Joseph I will get you squared away


----------



## joseph69

Thank you!!!


----------



## koiloco

Anyone has experience with Sophia Electric grade A 6SN7 tubes on Woo amps?  I am curious about how they are compared to good NOS tubes.  Thx.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

if you scroll down i see the 6fd7 option there.
  
http://wooaudio.com/products/wa6se.html


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> if you scroll down i see the 6fd7 option there.
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/products/wa6se.html


 
 Thank you *DG*, I never looked under the WA6SE, I was looking under the WA6 (being this is the model I own) for the 6FD7 "fat bottle" which are not listed under the WA6, and I never thought to look under the SE model, thank you, appreciate it !!!


----------



## Frank I

Joseph I sent you a PM regarding adapters and tubes. Please let me know if you have any questions and I will be glad to help you out and thanks DG for your help with this as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

getting rid of most of my tube collection, woo owners wanting some hard-to-find tubes, take a look...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696308/huge-tube-sale-5ar4-5r4-5u4-274-rectifiers-6as7g-6080-power-tubes-and-6sn7-6f8g-drivers


----------



## reeltime

dubstep girl said:


> so that first tube comparison thread i've been wanting to make is finally done!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


 
  
 Wow, take a week off from Woo-ing and look what I miss!
  
 Excellent work DG. 
  
 Side note:  Will a WE 422a work in a WA-5?  It isn't listed on the sheet with the acceptable tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes it will.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> getting rid of most of my tube collection, woo owners wanting some hard-to-find tubes, take a look...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/696308/huge-tube-sale-5ar4-5r4-5u4-274-rectifiers-6as7g-6080-power-tubes-and-6sn7-6f8g-drivers




Wow, can't believe you actually doing this...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Wow, can't believe you actually doing this...


 
  
 i know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 but then I'll be able to buy a new car, looking at this right now...


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> i know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is a great durable car!  Good mileage too.  Go for it DG.  Reselling is SUPER easy.


----------



## jc9394

I'm more of Honda guy...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> That is a great durable car!  Good mileage too.  Go for it DG.  Reselling is SUPER easy.


 
  
 yes! 
  
 i saw it today too, much better than the corolla's of previous years, and the blue is really nice too, huge change overall. the interior is nice too. gotta get the one in the pic though, the sport trim with the fancy blue paint and rims and everything. i don't like the other ones available, too ordinary and plain looking.
  
 was also thinking something more expensive, but its probably not worth it, resale value will plummet and will be expensive to maintain, service, gas, insurance, etc....
  
 like this.
  
 too expensive

  
  
 same as above, but nice.

  
 more reasonable, but couldn't afford the nicer trims, would be the basic one. the toyota i can get the fully loaded one.


----------



## prosperone

dubstep girl said:


> i know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Why not get a bike, that way you could still have tubes?


----------



## jc9394

Get the bumblebee, I'm planning to get the SS version next year.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Get the bumblebee, I'm planning to get the SS version next year.


 
  
 lol can't afford it.
  
 it'd be a very basic 2014 with the V6 or like a used 2012 or something. definitely no SS or the new z28 or anything like that unfortunately.


----------



## reeltime

dubstep girl said:


> was also thinking something more expensive, but its probably not worth it, resale value will plummet and will be expensive to maintain, service, gas, insurance, etc....





I'm going to sound like a parent for 2 minutes... 

All cars lose 30% to 50% of their value in the first 4 years, which is why I will not ever buy a new car, ever. You wind up having too much money tied up in something going down in value. Buy a 2-3 year old car with low mileage from Carmax. They will give you a 30-day exchange to protect against anything going wrong, and will fix anything broken on the car at the time of purchase. Pay cash if you can. Loans have a way of sticking around. Let someone else take that 40% loss.

Forgive me for I mean no offense, I am merely passing on what I learned by making bad money decisions for 38 years. The past 8 have been debt free, and your entire world changes when you stop making payments. 

Ignore this if it annoys you, I'm offering a suggestion in the kindest way.


----------



## jc9394

But but nicer cars drive and handle better however there is an invisible ceiling that I will not go over.

I do agree to get the less expensive reliable cars until you are debt free.


----------



## reeltime

jc9394 said:


> But but nicer cars drive and handle better however there is an invisible ceiling that I will not go over.
> 
> I do agree to get the less expensive reliable cars until you are debt free.




+1

Paid-for cars handle better than the swankiest sports car on the market. Give it a try! If I'm wrong, there are plenty of dealers willing to sell you a new one.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

reeltime said:


> I'm going to sound like a parent for 2 minutes...
> 
> All cars lose 30% to 50% of their value in the first 4 years, which is why I will not ever buy a new car, ever. You wind up having too much money tied up in something going down in value. Buy a 2-3 year old car with low mileage from Carmax. They will give you a 30-day exchange to protect against anything going wrong, and will fix anything broken on the car at the time of purchase. Pay cash if you can. Loans have a way of sticking around. Let someone else take that 40% loss.
> 
> ...


 
 but there are no many intangibles.  that new car smell.  knowing that no one has really driven this car but you, and if you can order it, even better.  We just built and took delivery recently of a Mini Cooper.  specified every single option on it exactly as we wanted...there's a lot to that.  typically, there are some concessions that have to be made with getting a car but not in this case.  I think everyone can look up NADA and KBB and decide for themselves if buying a new car makes financial sense in their case, based on resale values.  Plus, if you are going to keep the car a long time like we do, who cares if it loses value in the initial out years of ownership.  
  
 It also depends on what vehicle is being bought.  I have owned a Toyota Tundra and Honda Element and when I sold them, they lost very little of their original value/cost.
  
 Love that blue color DG....very nice....I hope you can work it out...


----------



## GrindingThud

Never buy a used car from me unless it is for scrap.....it will be well used up.


----------



## sarahkho

Hello,
  
 Any recommendation on what USB cable to buy to connect WA7 to macbook pro over USB? I can spend around 50$ on this. The other question would be on how much difference it makes to use a normal USB cable or the better ones that cost much more.
  
 I will be using WA7 with LCD-2.
  
  
 Thank you.


----------



## sarahkho

Anyone here to share some thought on using WA7 with LCD-2? If you are using such a combination, would you please comment on how suitable such a pairing is for classical, melodies, soundtracks, bluz, sometime pop, rock and NewAge/Progressive genre? 
  
 Is this a good choice to buy these two to listen to music of those genre or it makes sense to choose something else?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## reeltime

z06_pilot said:


> but there are no many intangibles.  that new car smell.  knowing that no one has really driven this car but you, and if you can order it, even better.




I don't want to make a thing out of this, hijacking the thread. Personal finance is personal. 

Carmax will let you order the exact car you want, with the exact options you want. When they get one in that matches your desire, you get an email. 

40% is a lot of money to lose on anything, regardless of price. The smell not withstanding. 

Here's why: Compound interest. Say you buy a new car at $30,000 vs $18000 used. That's $12,000. Invest that at 10% interest in an index fund between the ages of 30 and 60, you could have made $238,000 dollars, without adding a penny to it. Hope you liked the car. 

It's the cost of doing something wise with the money that makes a car so expensive. It took me a long time to fully understand the ramifications of bad spending choices. And I've done every dumb thing a person can do with money!

On topic-- Woo gear, I've broken even with both amps.

I swear, I'm done now.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

used seems to be better money wise, but i want a shiny new car 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 if i bought a used one, theres also the temptation to buy a used more expensive car, that will cost as much as the newer cheaper car.


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> Get the bumblebee, I'm planning to get the SS version next year.


 
 Nothing against the that car but I don't think it's really practical for DG to go with that option.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> Nothing against the that car but I don't think it's really practical for DG to go with that option.


 
  
 i drive fast enough as it is with an 03 corolla. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 probably why its broke now lol. 
  
 mostly worried about it being too expensive to maintain, and about it losing value, or worse, me ending up wrecking it. the corolla will at least keep me out of some trouble. also considering getting a color other than blue so i can keep a low profile when speeding.


----------



## koiloco

reeltime said:


> I'm going to sound like a parent for 2 minutes...
> 
> All cars lose 30% to 50% of their value in the first 4 years, which is why I will not ever buy a new car, ever. You wind up having too much money tied up in something going down in value. Buy a 2-3 year old car with low mileage from Carmax. They will give you a 30-day exchange to protect against anything going wrong, and will fix anything broken on the car at the time of purchase. Pay cash if you can. Loans have a way of sticking around. Let someone else take that 40% loss.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That would be nice if your statement included no mortgage payment.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I personally don't carry any credit card debt and car loan but mortgage payment still kicks my ass monthly.


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> i drive fast enough as it is with an 03 corolla.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Then that blue toyota is the way to go for you and for sure, it will last a long while.  I bought my current car 9 years ago.  I paid quite a bit for it but haven't regretted the decision.  Every time, I and my wife have gone out and looked for our "next" car, it has always ended up being a new one for some reason.  She's gone through 3 new cars, only 1 for me.  If you can afford it, get it and enjoy.  Life is too short!  Just don't go crazy and so out of your financial way to get something.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah so far looks like that blue corolla is gonna be the one.
  
 also looking at other brands, but i don't like them too much. only other one i like is the Nissan Altima, but I would only be able to afford the basic trim as well, not the nice V6 with leather whereas the Corolla I can buy the blue sport one fully loaded.

 then theres also the cruze and the dart, or even the mazda 3 but thats kinda ugly


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> Nothing against the that car but I don't think it's really practical for DG to go with that option.




Practical is overrated... I drive a S2000 and it is the only car I got 10 yrs ago and it is fine during winter time as long as you don't go out right after or during a major snow storm.


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> Practical is overrated... I drive a S2000 and it is the only car I got 10 yrs ago and it is fine during winter time as long as you don't go out right after or during a major snow storm.


 
 Nothing is overrated.  Just like your honda S2000, it is a personal choice.  Some people would say that convertible is a silly/stupid idea but some enjoy the elements.  Like you, I enjoy the wind in my face 100% and thus, have a motorcycle besides my car.


----------



## jc9394

Pocket rocket? I had few too but the wife said no after the first kid.

Young and stupid, we all live once and don't let practical be the road block.


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> Pocket rocket? I had few too but the wife said no after the first kid.
> 
> Young and stupid, we all live once and don't let practical be the road block.


 
 jc9394, we are both probably too old for pocket rocket.  I have a cruiser.  After many years of not riding, back in 2010, I finally decided to be "not practical" again  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and got myself a 2010 Honda Stateline.  The choice was either a Victory or a Honda.  I am a Honda fan so I ended up with the Stateline.  Bay Area weather is pretty nice for riders so I get to enjoy the air quite often.


----------



## jc9394

I think I will get a vrod back in 5-8 yrs, taking baby steps by getting the bumblebee SS first.


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> I think I will get a vrod back in 5-8 yrs, taking baby steps by getting the bumblebee SS first.


 
 lmao.  bumblebee = baby step?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the way you think.  Seriously though, you checked out the new stingray?  let's go impractical.


----------



## Silent One

I like jc9394's steps, too!


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> lmao.  bumblebee = baby step?    I like the way you think.  Seriously though, you checked out the new stingray?  let's go impractical.




Stingray will be in a category that I will get a new M4 with European delivery... Image a two weeks backpacking (fancy backpacking) in EU.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I like jc9394's steps, too!




We are long lost twins...


----------



## jc9394

WA5LE up for sale due to busy work schedule, will get it back when time permitted.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/696667/wa5le


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> WA5LE up for sale due to busy work schedule, will get it back when time permitted.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/696667/wa5le


 
 Don't be like DG.  Selling your tubes and amps for bumblebee.


----------



## jc9394

Yeah, I probably get more usage of bumblebee than the WA5LE.


----------



## Silent One

I'm still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 trying to add to my tea tins for the WA5 monos... this could take awhile. But a new job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




could make it hop!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

What's the new job, SO?
  
 Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## Silent One

Job? Rephrase - landing a new job could _speed _saving up for a new Woo.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> i know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I like Toyota I have a Rav 4 and has a 2007 Camry before that plus my daughter still driving a 2004 Corolla and that car has 98K miles on it spits good for another 10 years. LOL they are dependable. My wife drive a nissan Sentra to go to and from work


----------



## longbowbbs

frank i said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > i know
> ...


 
 I have 270K on my Prius..Still get 45-50 mpg and it looks great!


----------



## GloryUprising

reeltime said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > was also thinking something more expensive, but its probably not worth it, resale value will plummet and will be expensive to maintain, service, gas, insurance, etc....
> ...







reeltime said:


> z06_pilot said:
> 
> 
> > but there are no many intangibles.  that new car smell.  knowing that no one has really driven this car but you, and if you can order it, even better.
> ...




I'm gonna throw in my two cents here. 

While generally I'm financially savy (aside from my headfi addiction, but that's another topic) I would say reels advice more applies to higher end cars or people who like to get new cars every few years. 

$30000, while not super high end is still more than, say a Corolla. $230000 over 30 years still needs to account for capital gains taxes (I know I know taxes are for suckers!) AND inflation. 

Forget taxes just consider inflation. Assume you had the 230000$ NOW ant you held it for 30years and inflation was 2% your purchase in power will still be cut by almost half to about 127000$ THIRTY YEARS LATER. 

That's not saying reel isn't right about saving and compound interest (because he/she is) but take the interest and savings in perspective. (capital gains taxes are a b!Tch too, trust me). 

As a personal example I bought a fully loaded Mazda 3 in 2004 (in 2003 when it was first intoduced) for about $21k. People gave me **** about it on how I can buy a used 'nicer' car and this and that and the other thing. But here we are ten years later and I still LOVE my Mazda with 157,000+ miles AND a not-so-modest single family home AND a retirement account well on its way to being fully funded (I'm 30 years old) while my detractors are on their 2nd or 3rd 'bmw' and in a townhome or condo and haven't even really set up any semblance of a retirement. 

Sorry for the typos, on a tablet. 

(MERRY CHRISTMAS, folks!) 

On other news, Dg I guess you're liking the gsx-mkII? Still waiting on mine from Justin...


----------



## Silent One

Justin... I really like his work ethic!


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> I have 270K on my Prius..Still get 45-50 mpg and it looks great!



Wow, my wife will be very happy to hear that. I bought her a Prius last year. She loves it. As for me, my 05 Acura RL is pushing 9 years soon. Flawless since the day I got it. Well, it better be for the $ I paid.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have 270K on my Prius..Still get 45-50 mpg and it looks great!
> ...


 
 RL's are great cars....My Prius is a 2008. 2nd gen.


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> RL's are great cars....My Prius is a 2008. 2nd gen.



No issue battery at all?


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > RL's are great cars....My Prius is a 2008. 2nd gen.
> ...


 
 All original batteries still at full capacity...


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> All original batteries still at full capacity...


 
  
 I still have a desire to power my audio rig off a LiPo cell for a scooter or small vehicle. Might have to make that my project for 2014.


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> All original batteries still at full capacity...


 
 Awesome!  When we researched the Prius last year, we read about taxi companies using Prius.  Their Prius fleet got 200-300k miles on them without problems.  Pretty amazing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gloryuprising said:


> On other news, Dg I guess you're liking the gsx-mkII? Still waiting on mine from Justin...


 
  
 Yes!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> I like Toyota I have a Rav 4 and has a 2007 Camry before that plus my daughter still driving a 2004 Corolla and that car has 98K miles on it spits good for another 10 years. LOL they are dependable. My wife drive a nissan Sentra to go to and from work


 
  
 i had an 03 corolla, got up to 120k miles, still ran great but had oil leak problem, it siezed the first engine, we got a new engine put in it and also thought the oil problem was fixed. now a few weeks later it happened again while i was driving, drove a few miles, shut the engine off before it got really bad, refilled it with oil, and when i started it back up, was knocking really bad and gets worse as you rev. had to get it towed and now its just sitting in the driveway. pretty much dead cause not gonna put any more money into another engine, especially on a 10 year old car. especially not knowing what else could break or stuff that has to get serviced soon anyways.
  
 im sure if none of this ever happened, that car would of ran for another 10 years as well. never gave me any other problems and it just felt like it would last forever.


----------



## magiccabbage

So i have been away from my main rig _(WA2/HD800/T1)_ for the last 4 days because I went home to visit family for the holidays. I brought my Cowon j3/Fiio E11 - HD595 with me for the journey but as it turned out i just read in the car on the way home instead of listening. 
  
 Today i decided to go for a walk to listen to some music. I had not listened to the Cowon/fiio and HD595 for a long time. the walk wasn't as enjoyable as i thought it was gonna be because compared to my main rig the Cowon/hd595 sounds like utter *****! Man i had no idea how good my main rig sounds compared to my portable one. I suppose i just got used to the quality over the last few weeks. It was a big shock. Now i just wanna go back to my house and listen to some nice tunes. I MISS MY WOO.......


----------



## jc9394

You need a custom IEM for away rig, my JH13 powered by iPhone it sound really really great that I do not have the feeling of missing my main rig during travel.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> You need a custom IEM for away rig, my JH13 powered by iPhone it sound really really great that I do not have the feeling of missing my main rig during travel.


 
 +1 So true....


----------



## dminches

The cars I purchase are certified pre-owned with between 5000 and 12000 miles on them. These cars are usually close to new and they come with a 6 yr / 100k warranty as compared to the normal 4/50k or so. The minute you drive a new car off the lot it depreciates 20%.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i really want this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 these depreciates too right? so if its like 25k new it'll be worth 20k as soon as i drive it off the lot?


----------



## bbophead

dubstep girl said:


> i really want this


 
 Yeah, that car is such a bee-atch.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ill probably just end up getting the new corolla instead since thats more realistic. it'll end up costing almost the same though, a fully loaded corolla s will cost like 23-24.


----------



## dminches

DG, every new car immediately depreciates. That's why the CPO deals are so good.


----------



## jc9394

Definitely, I want a new SS because it will be my fun car. I will keep my G35x as winter car.


----------



## MIBViking

dubstep girl said:


> Yes!


 
 How would you describe the similarities/differneces between the GS-X mk2 versus a fully NOS tubed WA22?
  
 Regards,


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mibviking said:


> How would you describe the similarities/differneces between the GS-X mk2 versus a fully NOS tubed WA22?
> 
> Regards,


 
  
 the WA22 remains warm and lush and is always slightly shy of perfection in regards to transparency, the GSX MK2 offers more clarity and detail as well. 
  
 the WA22 throws a bigger soundstage but the GSX MK2 will image better. the WA22 will be more euphonic, but the GSX MK2 more accurate.
  
 bass is better on the GSX MK2, its tighter cleaner more textured, softer and further back on the WA22, but with a little more bloom perhaps. 
  
 the WA22 has more body and a nicer midrange in a way, the midrange is very tubey and romantic, it has that tube magic that the GSX MK2 lacks. the WA22 also is forward in the mids, not in an aggressive way, but the mids just stand out alot more than the bass thats push back a bit and the smooth treble, its a mid-centric amp, much more than the other woos i used to own.
  
 both are good, i just think the GSX MK2 is better overall, with the WA22 excelling mainly in having a euphonic midrange and a huge soundstage, but the GSX MK2 being better at everything else.


----------



## MIBViking

dubstep girl said:


> the WA22 remains warm and lush and is always slightly shy of perfection in regards to transparency, the GSX MK2 offers more clarity and detail as well.
> 
> the WA22 throws a bigger soundstage but the GSX MK2 will image better. the WA22 will be more euphonic, but the GSX MK2 more accurate.
> 
> ...


 

 VERY interesting  A fully NOS tubed WA22 will quicklu become more expensive than the gs-X mk2 also. Something to think about as I`ve been reading som many good things about the WA22, but I love the controlled bass on my Taurus mk1, but would like a warmer and "closer" midrange and more texture. I like the "effortless" description I`ve read about the GS-X mk2 also


----------



## koiloco

^ I can attest for the mid range DG was talking about on the WA22.  To me, the WA22 mid is forward in a super intimate way.  Vocals are just so lush, full bodied and yes, just warm enough. Texture is excellent.  Bass on WA22 can't be SS like.  With ken rad vt231 and TS 5998, the bass I am getting now is quite good but still a touch shy for my taste, especially for my HE500.  At a recent meet, I had a chance to listen to a few headamp amps, they are amazing! If I ever go stax, the amp will have to be a BHSE.


----------



## MIBViking

dubstep girl said:


> the WA22 remains warm and lush and is always slightly shy of perfection in regards to transparency, the GSX MK2 offers more clarity and detail as well.
> 
> the WA22 throws a bigger soundstage but the GSX MK2 will image better. the WA22 will be more euphonic, but the GSX MK2 more accurate.
> 
> ...



Have you heard the fully nos tubed wa22 and gs-x mk2 on the lcd-x? they got more treble and are more punchy in the bass


----------



## reeltime

Listening to Amy Winehouse "Lioness" on vinyl through my WA5LE.  Magic.  
  
 Anyway-- a few responses:
  
 Quote:


> these depreciates too right? so if its like 25k new it'll be worth 20k as soon as i drive it off the lot?


 
  
 Like the famous Bob Seger Chevy commercial sings:  "...Like a Rock..."
  
  


gloryuprising said:


> $230000 over 30 years still needs to account for capital gains taxes (I know I know taxes are for suckers!) AND inflation.


 
  
  
 There are worse problems to have than paying taxes on the $230,000 you've earned by investing.  
  
 Let's do a little more math (cause it's fun):  If you can throw a little money into that account each month, say $100 dollars over those 30 years (because you paid cash for your used car and you have a few extra dollars each month), you now have $464,000 after 30 years.  
  
 These numbers go insane when you start a little younger.  Say you're 21 (can I get a do-over on my 20's?) and you do the same investment-- $12,000 plus a hundred a month over 40 years-- Congrats, you're a millionaire. $1,276,000 and change.  Pizza and beer money each month with a modest initial investment.  
  
 Or you can enjoy the smell of the new car, and be thankful you won't have the problem of paying taxes-- on the money you don't have.  
  
 Happy Holidays Everyone!  Seriously!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mibviking said:


> Have you heard the fully nos tubed wa22 and gs-x mk2 on the lcd-x? they got more treble and are more punchy in the bass


 
  
 only tried the X on the GSX MK2 not on the WA22 (only the LCD-3 here).
  
 i liked it on the GSX, sounded like LCD-2 but much better.


----------



## MIBViking

dubstep girl said:


> only tried the X on the GSX MK2 not on the WA22 (only the LCD-3 here).
> 
> i liked it on the GSX, sounded like LCD-2 but much better.



I got something to think about now  But GS-Xmk2 is difficult to get a hold of? And at least impossible to try here in Norway....


----------



## MIBViking

How would you rate a full on NOS tubed WA22, the GS-Xmk2 and a EC Balancing Act with the new output transformers on the LCD-X?


----------



## sarahkho

Hello -,
  
 I thought to repost my questions as they were sorta buried by car discussions.

 Anyone here to share some thought on using WA7 with LCD-2? If you are using such a combination, would you please comment on how suitable such a pairing is for classical, melodies, soundtracks, bluz, sometime pop, rock and NewAge/Progressive genre?  Is this a good choice to buy these two to listen to music of those genre or it makes sense to choose something else?
  
  
 Also, any recommendation on what USB cable to buy to connect WA7 to macbook pro over USB? I can spend around 50$ on this. The other question would be on how much difference it makes to use a normal USB cable or the better ones that cost much more. I will be using WA7 with LCD-2.

 Thank you.


----------



## senson

I can't comment on WA7 since I do not have personal experience, but for the LCD-2 it is not the best headphone for wide soundstage and separation, there are better phones for orchestra and classical, however it has a euphonic, intimate, romantic sound which I love to listen to piano, jazz vocal, not to mention it has pretty good amount of bass but shy of treble for poorly recorded pop musics...
  
 I use regular USB cable(printer cable which came with my epson printer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for my DA8. I had fancy USB cable (well not those couple hundred dollar one it was audio quest forest) when I had W4S but did not notice any difference when I switched back and forth. Maybe my ears or DAC are not good enough to hear any differences... If i were you, I would spend that money on tubes.


----------



## sarahkho

senson said:


> I can't comment on WA7 since I do not have personal experience, but for the LCD-2 it is not the best headphone for wide soundstage and separation, there are better phones for orchestra and classical, however it has a euphonic, intimate, romantic sound which I love to listen to piano, jazz vocal, not to mention it has pretty good amount of bass but shy of treble for poorly recorded pop musics...
> 
> I use regular USB cable(printer cable which came with my epson printer
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the feedback. Your signature shows you have several high end headphones, may I ask which one, based on your experience, you recommend for wide soundstage and separation? I will not buy expensive usb cable then.


----------



## senson

sarahkho said:


> Thank you for the feedback. Your signature shows you have several high end headphones, may I ask which one, based on your experience, you recommend for wide soundstage and separation? I will not buy expensive usb cable then.


 
  
 Well, I am not the best person to give you an advice since I am not really a big fan of classical music even though I enjoy them time to time. I like to listen to mostly Jazz piano/vocal, all kind of rock music and some electronics.
  
 In terms of wide sound stage and separation, it would be HD800, however preferences are very subjective. A lot of people here favor HD800 here but for me it is not my favorite headphone because IMO(it all depends on your chain of system also but at least in my system) it try too hard to squeeze out massive sound stage and separation to show how good it is and sometimes it bothers me. If you want every single detail and massive sound stage HD800 would be still your best choice in dynamic headphones though.
  
 In my very limited experience compares to others like DG in this tread, my favorite headphones are T1 / LCD2 & 3 and currently trying to figure out if I like HD700 or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also I have to plan to try TH900 very soon if I don't buy another amp, dac or any other toys..lol.


----------



## koiloco

^ +1.  solid advise! I personally won't buy the HD800 without listening to it first extensively.  Fortunately, I got to do this cuz a friend let me borrow his HD800 for 2 weeks.  I found that between my HE500 and the HD800, the 2 would cover/complement each other to satisfy all my need/preference.  I did think about the T1 too and have heard from many owners that the T1 is also a very good all rounder but I already have HE500 for that.  This is one of the reasons why I went with HD800 after much contemplating.  Besides, my amp is ready and personally verified to pair well with HD800.  
  
@sarahkho, Gluck with your search.


----------



## magiccabbage

I got Chatam and RCA 6as7g's today for my woo 2. Listening to the RCA's now, they are nice and warm. Looking forward to rolling back and forth between the new tubes and the 5998's.


----------



## Frank I

Cool. Let me know what you think


----------



## koiloco

magiccabbage said:


> I got Chatam and RCA 6as7g's today for my woo 2. Listening to the RCA's now, they are nice and warm. Looking forward to rolling back and forth between the new tubes and the 5998's.


 
 I personally prefer 5998 over RCA 6as7g.


----------



## magiccabbage

koiloco said:


> I personally prefer 5998 over RCA 6as7g.


 
 seems like there is more detail alright and clearer. I was listening to "bookends" and "bridge over troubled water" by Simon and Garfunkel today and i have to say that the RCA's work really well with these albums. The 5998 was highlighting the sss in the vocal a slight bit too much for me. The darker RCA's are lovely for Simon and Garfunkel.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Cool. Let me know what you think


 
 will do


----------



## Dillan

Love love love my RCA 6as7g!  I think it really depends on the headphone and setup.  I tried to setup my system around my HD 800 and am absolutely in love with the accuracy and imaging they provide..  Although I really like a good lush, warm sound too.  So because of this I love the RCA 6as7g on my WA2 amp.  Its a great duo and I plan on trying out vinyl to maybe even boost my sonic preferences even more.  I have tried about 4 different tubes and for my situation that is what I preferred, but I think it comes down to the headphone, the rest of the system and the user!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i find that the RCA doesn't even come close to the 5998, its warmer and more forgiving but yeah, all the pros stop there, the 5998 is another level. also the RCA may have  less treble but it still feels peaky and unrefined, having a harshness/grain in the sound at times.


----------



## jc9394

6AS7G tubes, nothing beats GEC. . Even the GEC 6080 kicks RCA 6AS7G's ass...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> 6AS7G tubes, nothing beats GEC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  
 the GEC 6080 are pretty nice tubes actually, they sound different than GEC 6AS7G but are nice, very warm full and inviting sound thats very sweet. 
  
 i actually really liked them.


----------



## Dillan

I should try the GEC 6080 then.  I spent a lot of time with the 5998 and just didn't understand the hype.  This was my personal experience and equipment.  It does sound like I need to go for a pair of GEC 6080 ASAP though!


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> the GEC 6080 are pretty nice tubes actually, they sound different than GEC 6AS7G but are nice, very warm full and inviting sound thats very sweet.
> 
> i actually really liked them.


 
 Been so busy still have not opened the box will do so tomorrow DG. Man LCD X is in the house now


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i find that the RCA doesn't even come close to the 5998, its warmer and more forgiving but yeah, all the pros stop there, the 5998 is another level. also the RCA may have  less treble but it still feels peaky and unrefined, having a harshness/grain in the sound at times.


 
 I agree with you but on a lot of albums that i like less treble is nice. I haven't noticed any peakyness yet but i only have been listening for a few hours. There does seem to be something missing though compared with 5998. I don't know how to describe it, its strange. listened to james brown - "hot pants" and that album that  from darker RCA sound and less detail. this album sounds pretty good on those tubes. 
  
 Listening to the Chatams now. They seem to be a bit more balanced i think these are slightly better. I need to listen more though. No micro-phonics at all when i tap the table.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i find that the RCA doesn't even come close to the 5998, its warmer and more forgiving but yeah, all the pros stop there, the 5998 is another level. also the RCA may have  less treble but it still feels peaky and unrefined, having a harshness/grain in the sound at times.


 
 have you used the Chatham 6as7g's before?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

No i havent, they are hard to come by and didnt wanna bother spending 100$+ for them


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> No i havent, they are hard to come by and didnt wanna bother spending 100$+ for them


 
 i really like them - not as murky as the RCA's. I do need to go back to the RCA's though i didn't give them enough attention. The Chatams are lovely, listening to Emerson Lake and Palmer now - sounds fantastic. oh yea - happy new year!! 
  
 I got some franziskaner! Lovely wheat beer!!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> 6AS7G tubes, nothing beats GEC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  





 Well then! Let's meet up with our tea broker...


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> i really like them - not as murky as the RCA's. I do need to go back to the RCA's though i didn't give them enough attention. The Chatams are lovely, listening to Emerson Lake and Palmer now - sounds fantastic. oh yea - happy new year!!
> 
> I got some franziskaner! Lovely wheat beer!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ooooo. Looks lovely. Ultra, have you had this beer?


----------



## koiloco

clayton sf said:


> Ooooo. Looks lovely. Ultra, have you had this beer?


 
 wait! I thought that was tea.


----------



## senson

Just want to say Happy New Year to all Woo family here!!!. I would've got my second WA2 if UPS did not take their extra holiday today but well... New Year another amp


----------



## koiloco

senson said:


> Just want to say Happy New Year to all Woo family here!!!. *I would've got my second WA2* if UPS did not take their extra holiday today but well... New Year another amp


 
 Gratz!!!  For your T1?


----------



## daverich4

jc9394 said:


> 6AS7G tubes, nothing beats GEC. . Even the GEC 6080 kicks RCA 6AS7G's ass...




I have a pair of GEC 6AS7G's on the way that I bought from Dubstep Girl. (Wanted to contribute to her car buying fund). Looking forward to comparing them to my TS5998's.


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> I have a pair of GEC 6AS7G's on the way that I bought from Dubstep Girl. (Wanted to contribute to her car buying fund). Looking forward to comparing them to my TS5998's.


 
 lucky you


----------



## magiccabbage

Im still listening to the Chatams - addicted, cant take them out of the WA2, I was not expecting them them to be this nice. 
  
  " I gotta get over the hump "


----------



## Frank I

Happy New Year to Everyone. May 2014 bring everyone much health and happiness


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Happy New Year to Everyone. May 2014 bring everyone much health and happiness


 
 Same to you Frank - happy new year.


----------



## fightmyass

Few newbie questions from -w8 for it-yes your are correct - newbie
 1.Can WA3/6 be used as desktop amp for portable device (like DX50)? I mean does it make sense, or it will be stupid spending.
 2.Speaking about marginal utility (take the F book and read out what does it mean, coz it is an intersting thing ) does it make sense to buy 6 instead of 3? What do i mean by that?
 Well if 500$ thing provides you 100% of joy, will 600$ thing provide you 120 and more % of joy?
 3. How much money average people spend on tubes for 3/6 ?
 p.s. sry for my english
 p.p.s. regards=)


----------



## Frank I

The WA3 or WA6 cab be connected with a proper interconnect.   Any of our amps will work with the DX50.  
  
 To answer your question regarding the differences from WA3 to WA6 would require knowing which headphones you are using. The WA6 is transformer coupled and will work with both high and low impendance headphones. The WA3 is  OTL design and works best with higher impedance headphones.  Stock tubes are included with either WA3 or WA6 and pur upgrade options are listed on our website. The tubes used for both of these amps are very inexpensive and can last up to 10000 hours.


----------



## senson

koiloco said:


> Gratz!!!  For your T1?


 
 For T1 and HD700 hack I'll even put my LCD in there too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I don't knwo if I'll like it or not but I even liked W3000ANV with WA2 when I had them


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Happy New Year to Everyone. May 2014 bring everyone much health and happiness


 
*Frank I*, Happy New Year to you also, and thanks for the suggestion on the 6SN7's, I like them a lot, they have a nice amount of bass and warmth for my taste. Next I would like to try the 6FD7 (fat bottle) tubes if Woo has them in stock.


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> *Frank I*, Happy New Year to you also, and thanks for the suggestion on the 6SN7's, I like them a lot, they have a nice amount of bass and warmth for my taste. Next I would like to try the 6FD7 (fat bottle) tubes if Woo has them in stock.Hi Joseph,


 
 Hi Joseph,
  
 Glad you liked the recommendations and you can order the fat bottles on the website. Let me know what you think of them when   you get them.. Happy New Year to you as well and good listening!!!


----------



## daverich4

daverich4 said:


> I have a pair of GEC 6AS7G's on the way that I bought from Dubstep Girl. (Wanted to contribute to her car buying fund). Looking forward to comparing them to my TS5998's.


 
  


magiccabbage said:


> lucky you


 
  
 I guess. I've been looking for a pair for some time but didn't want to buy the ones in England that always seem to be listed on EBay. It's a little ironic that my pair is coming from DG because it was her posts that originally got me to do some research on them. Looks like they're scheduled to arrive on Monday, plenty of time to pick out some favorite tunes and have everything warmed up.


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> I guess. I've been looking for a pair for some time but didn't want to buy the ones in England that always seem to be listed on EBay. It's a little ironic that my pair is coming from DG because it was her posts that originally got me to do some research on them. Looks like they're scheduled to arrive on Monday, plenty of time to pick out some favorite tunes and have everything warmed up.


 
 I have also been looking for a while but i have to get a new camera and put off tube collecting for a while, i will have my camera next week with 2 new lenses. Sacrifices unfortunately must be made from time to time. 
 Oh how wonderful the world would be if we all only had 1 hobby. Or would it?


----------



## jc9394

Shameless plug, last bump before goes to closet.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/696667/wa5le


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug, last bump before goes to closet.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/696667/wa5le


 

 Gluck!  If this were up before I bought my WA22, I would definitely consider it.


----------



## Wapiti

I hope you are getting at least serious nibbles.  It is a great amp.


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> I have also been looking for a while but i have to get a new camera and put off tube collecting for a while, i will have my camera next week with 2 new lenses. Sacrifices unfortunately must be made from time to time.
> Oh how wonderful the world would be if we all only had 1 hobby. Or would it?


 

 You're preaching to the choir. I spent more than 30 years working in photo labs before digital put them all out of business and I pretty much already have every piece of camera gear that I want. However, in an effort to be creative this year Santa brought me a DJI Phantom Quadcopter with a mount for my GoPro Hero. I've been out a couple of times with it since Christmas learning how to shoot aerial stills and videos. Add another hobby to my list.


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> You're preaching to the choir. I spent more than 30 years working in photo labs before digital put them all out of business and I pretty much already have every piece of camera gear that I want. However, in an effort to be creative this year Santa brought me a DJI Phantom Quadcopter with a mount for my GoPro Hero. I've been out a couple of times with it since Christmas learning how to shoot aerial stills and videos. Add another hobby to my list.


 
 Wow .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Friends of mine started a production company - they mostly make shorts and music videos and the like. They are always talking about that chopper and camera mount thing and that they would love to get one. you are a lucky guy. Have you posted pictures or a video yet? 
  
 Was it expensive? I know they were looking at a really fancy shoulder mount that they also wanted to get. You can run down corridors with it and it keeps the camera basically steady.


----------



## jc9394

wapiti said:


> I hope you are getting at least serious nibbles.  It is a great amp.


 
  
  
 some, i think it is the holiday seasons that no one want an expensive amp.  oh well, i will pack it up and goes to the closet soon for later use.


----------



## magiccabbage

jc9394 said:


> some, i think it is the holiday seasons that no one want an expensive amp.  oh well, i will pack it up and goes to the closet soon for later use.


 
 I would love it. I would consider selling my WA2 and some other stuff and get it if you were closer to me - but the whole international thing is a bit much. Its always the same. The woo gear for the most part is U.S only. Good luck though, with the sale.


----------



## jc9394

Listening it now with Sophia Princess 300B, 274B, and brown base Sylvania 6SN7wgta, I may just keep it for now. No point selling something I love.


----------



## GloryUprising

jc9394 said:


> Listening it now with Sophia Princess 300B, 274B, and brown base Sylvania 6SN7wgta, I may just keep it for now. No point selling something I love.


 
 That's the spirit!


----------



## magiccabbage

OK i have rolled the RCA 6as7g and the Chatam 6as7g and Tung Sol 5998's a lot over the last few days in the WA2.
  
 The RCA's to my ears are the darkest and my least favorite they are just not as revealing as the other 2.
  
 The Chatham's are ok - i would say. I like them for some music but not most. They are very smooth and good for older music. They tame the treble a bit much, which is good for some older recordings but for intricate detailed music - not so good. 
  
 And then - the Tung sol 5998's are just brilliant with almost everything. There are still a few albums - like Simon and Garfunkel where i prefer the Chatham's but 95% of the time its easily the 5998's that are the winners. I could live with the slight vocal hssss on the very few tracks where it crops up because although the RCA and Chatham get rid of this they sacrifice too much detail. 
  
 I dont know whether to keep the RCA and Chatham's or just sell them and get more 5998's. 
  
 anyway long story short -  i fall in line with everybody else's opinion of the 5998's compared to the other 6as7g's (apart from GEC) - its true they really are a far superior tube.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> anyway long story short -  i fall in line with everybody else's opinion of the 5998's compared to the other 6as7g's (apart from GEC) - its true they really are a far superior tube.


 
  
 i knew you'd come around eventually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 i could care less for the RCA 6AS7G and theres a reason i ended up with 5 pairs of 5998/2399 and a pair of 421A...


----------



## Frank I

Now the question DG. Did you buy a car ??


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> Now the question DG. Did you buy a car ??


 
 Pic plzzzz if you have.  We all would like to see if your new car has sockets for tubes anywhere.


----------



## jc9394

She replaced the stock radio with WA2 and a dedicated DAC.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> Now the question DG. Did you buy a car ??


 
  
 no. unfortunately i'm looking at more expensive cars now.....
  
 brand new for 2014, the Mercedes-Benz CLA 250, costs about as much as I would pay for the fully-loaded V6 Nissan Altima I was looking at. Around 30-31k

  
 Fully-loaded Altima
  

  
 Also really interested in the new Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S (Toyota-made). Really love the look here, I swear it kinda reminds me of the Supra in a way, Also kinda looks like a Porsche/Ferrari kinda exotic, has that super car look to it. Almost 30k for it with everything.
  

  
 oh and theres the super cute 2014 Mazda MX-5 Miata, also about 30k Fully-loaded with Black hardtop, this one would probably be really nice, but small with limited space.
  

  
  
 of course the cheaper option is the Fully-loaded Corolla at just under 24k (cheaper than the other cars here by like 6-7k).


----------



## koiloco

^ nice looking cars.  Keep in mind the $ on tune up/potential repair after warranty is up.  Merc and Euro cars are excellent cars to drive.  Repair/tune up are not cheap however.  Japanese/American cars are much less costly.  
 I drove the Scion.  It was a friend's.  I liked it a lot.  
 I also test-drove the Merc with my brother.  We were not impressed and he ended up with 2013 GLK350 somehow.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This was just last month.  Miatas are fun to drive in more consistent sunny weather like in CA.  Not sure, how it is over there for you.  Little space though!
 Our family used to own a car junk yard.  I auctioned, bought, traded, repaired, resold too many cars.  I learned a lot.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

aww didn't like the new one in the picture then? it seems really nice. brand new car though, but mercedes for just over 30k!!
  
 the FR-S seems nice but not sure on it, seems like the interior isn't as nice and not sure how reliable it will be (it does have a toyota engine though).
  
  
 The Toyota is the cheapest but has small engine and the CVT transmission.


----------



## koiloco

^ The Altima has a pretty responsive engine and good acceleration.  The Merc does drive like a typical Euro car.  It's quite dead on with the other C class models.  My friend has the Scion since the model came out.  Not a single problem yet.  Honestly, if you can budget later tuneup+other maintenance cost, go for the Merc.  You do only live once!  but If you can't and it will be a stretch financially, go for the corolla and still have money for other toys.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> ^ The Altima has a pretty responsive engine and good acceleration.  The Merc does drive like a typical Euro car.  It's quite dead on with the other C class models.  My friend has the Scion since the model came out.  Not a single problem yet.  Honestly, if you can budget later tuneup+other maintenance cost, go for the Merc.  You do only live once!  but If you can't and it will be a stretch financially, go for the corolla and still have money for other toys.


 
  
 thats true!!
  
 plus the corolla S actually has alot of really nice features and options, mostly climate control, front heated seats, has nice LED headlights and fog lights as well, navigation, moonroof, backup camera, steering wheel controls, an almost as nice dash, and a push to start button. other stuff is equally good having nicer wheels and softex seats on the fully loaded one. just the weaker engine/transmission
  
 the mercedes has enough stuff stock to keep me happy, but the nicer headlights would be an upgrade and no moonroof on the car stock. also no push to start and the stock seats are a nice pleather similar to the corolla, real leather costs more. also don't know if the stock speaker system is good or no better than the corolla. of course, the merc also will have better handling and it has a really nice engine as well.
  
 seems like the altima would be nicer cause v6 + most luxuries as well, but costs as much or more than the merc and is nowhere near as cool and won't exactly handle the same way. also interior is nice but not better than the merc, leather isn't that great either (same thing on my co-workers 2009 maxima)
  
 its sooo hard to choose, also if i do go for anything other than the corolla, i'll have to put up a huge down payment and will probably finish selling off my rig except for GSX/mytek and 1 or 2 headphones. and that could change too. 
  
 that merc is just super sexy. 21 years old, single, and driving that kinda car


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I imagine of all those cars you picked the Merc would be the least regretful decision....till something goes wrong$$$$$$


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> thats true!!
> 
> plus the corolla S actually has alot of really nice features and options, mostly climate control, front heated seats, has nice LED headlights and fog lights as well, navigation, moonroof, backup camera, steering wheel controls, an almost as nice dash, and a push to start button. other stuff is equally good having nicer wheels and softex seats on the fully loaded one. just the weaker engine/transmission
> 
> ...


 
 Enough said!  I decide for you.  Go for the Merc.  You seem to have a stable job/income based on your collection of tubes and HP gears.  Go for it.  Hell with practical this round.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> Enough said!  I decide for you.  Go for the Merc.  You seem to have a stable job/income based on your collection of tubes and HP gears.  Go for it.  Hell with practical this round.


 
  





 
  
 kinda wish i didn't spend so much money on audio equipment, I could definitely have afforded it by now. 
  
 of course, i can still do a 30% down payment on the merc i think. then its not too bad.


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> kinda wish i didn't spend so much money on audio equipment, I could definitely have afforded it by now.
> 
> of course, i can still do a 30% down payment on the merc i think. then its not too bad.


 
 DG, another option to seriously look at is leasing.  You are still young and probably wanna switch car in 3 years or so.  Even with 30% down($11,000), monthly payment will still be around $660/month for 36 months at 0% interest.  Go check out the lease options at your local dealers.  It might make more sense for you and save some $.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> DG, another option to seriously look at is leasing.  You are still young and probably wanna switch car in 3 years or so.  Even with 30% down($11,000), monthly payment will still be around $660/month for 36 months at 0% interest.  Go check out the lease options at your local dealers.  It might make more sense for you and save some $.


 
  
 thats not too bad for 36 months, i'd probably go for 60 months which would drop it way down. 
  
 i don't plan on leasing, if i'm buying, i'm buying to keep and planning on keeping for a good long time, especially a 30k car. the corolla would be cheaper and would also be kept for a long time. in other words, i'll save and when i'm almost 30, i'll buy a Lotus (my dream car)


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> thats not too bad for 36 months, i'd probably go for 60 months which would drop it way down.
> 
> i don't plan on leasing, if i'm buying, i'm buying to keep and planning on keeping for a good long time, especially a 30k car. the corolla would be cheaper and would also be kept for a long time. in other words, i'll save and when i'm almost 30, i'll buy a Lotus (my dream car)


 
 Noooooooooooo!  no Lotus. In 10 years, there will be better options but yeah, that car is REALLY fun to drive.  Turning and handling like a good go cart.  it's that stable.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> Noooooooooooo!  no Lotus. In 10 years, there will be better options but yeah, that car is REALLY fun to drive.  Turning and handling like a good go cart.  it's that stable.


 
  
 lol in 10 years, i'll buy the new lotus then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 it looks like a really nice car and yes cause its really small, lightweight, and i'm sure the handling is incredible. i'll be able to go like 90+ on entrance and exit ramps with that! (well maybe not but u get the picture).


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> lol in 10 years, i'll buy the new lotus then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol, if the ramp is properly angled, you could technically go 90+.  That car has very good lateral grip and such low center of gravity.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> lol, if the ramp is properly angled, you could technically go 90+.  That car has very good lateral grip and such low center of gravity.


 
  
  





!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  
 only a decade to go...
  
 i'll be really happy if i can afford the mercedes though.


----------



## Radioking59

I have a V6 Altima Coupe and my mom has a CLA 2.5. The Benz is an awesome looking car but the engine sucks. I love whipping through traffic in my Altima and the CVT transmission is sweet. It's a tough call though. I'm a guy so I probably value performance more than you do. Not to mention the CLA had a seal break within 200 miles and it took over two weeks to get a part since they are new. They took care of her with an extended warranty and free maintenance though. Get the best of both worlds and get a CLA 45 AMG.


----------



## magiccabbage

I have no interest in cars. I cant join in on this one. Dot know if i would ever bother with getting a fancy car. 5 years later they aren't fancy anymore. But hey if you have the money and it doesn't squash your dreams go for it. 
  
 If i was DG - no way would i sell all my gear for a car that wont last more than a couple of years especially if your sacrificing other things you love. 
  
 I suppose its all about what you want and enjoy more. If the car makes you happier then get the car. 
  
  
 ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬`¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
  
  
 I don't wanna scare you or anything but a horrible thing happened to my friend who bought a brand new BMW - the ****en thing got stolen, some ass holes forced their way into her house and took her keys_ (she was in bed sleeping, they did this to ensure that the house alarm wouldn't go off - clever bastards)_ - then drove away with the car. 
 What did the cops do?? Absolutely nothing. The insurance company only gave her back enough money to buy a ****ty - Renault Clio. 
  
 So now she has a **** car and still has to pay for a BMW that she doesn't have. 
  
 ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
  
  
 Hopefully this will never happen but if you are straining to buy a car and something goes wrong, just be careful.
  
  Sorry for the pessimism and good luck.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> no. unfortunately i'm looking at more expensive cars now.....
> 
> brand new for 2014, the Mercedes-Benz CLA 250, costs about as much as I would pay for the fully-loaded V6 Nissan Altima I was looking at. Around 30-31k
> 
> ...




The FR-S is most fun to drive but make sure you have a backup car in the winter. How about an Audi A3?


----------



## Frank I

We been working on the new website and hope to have everything completed by middle of next month.


----------



## GrindingThud

Looking forward to it! 


frank i said:


> We been working on the new website and hope to have everything completed by middle of next month.


----------



## longbowbbs

frank i said:


> We been working on the new website and hope to have everything completed by middle of next month.


 
 Frank, are you going to link in your reviews with each model? That would be cool!


----------



## Frank I

Eric the way I have been working on the new website is there will be a description page of each amplifier and on the comparison page you will be able to compare two amps to each other and see the differences. 
  
 Their really isn't a full review of each model and I handed the WA 234 review off to another reviewer. I wont be reviewing any products that Woo manufactures anymore because of my affiliation with Woo. Jack and I are talking about doing a Insider page on the  website where there will be my comments  and impressions of the WA 234 and other products. Those things are being discussed for our sponsor page here and on the new website.
  
 We really want to take customer service and support to another level entirely. I have also done a headphone comparison page for the website that will include most headphones and what works well with every amplifier we manufacture.


----------



## longbowbbs

frank i said:


> Eric the way I have been working on the new website is there will be a description page of each amplifier and on the comparison page you will be able to compare two amps to each other and see the differences.
> 
> Their really isn't a full review of each model and I handed the WA 234 review off to another reviewer. I wont be reviewing any products that Woo manufactures anymore because of my affiliation with Woo. Jack and I are talking about doing a Insider page on the  website where there will be my comments  and impressions of the WA 234 and other products. Those things are being discussed for our sponsor page here and on the new website.
> 
> We really want to take customer service and support to another level entirely. I have also done a headphone comparison page for the website that will include most headphones and what works well with every amplifier we manufacture.


 
 Sweet! I can't wait to see the new site.


----------



## senson

Wait! when did Frank start working for Jack?!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I must have been gone for too long.....
 Congrats Frank!! and Jack!! So do you get to keep all woo amps you got for review?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> The FR-S is most fun to drive but make sure you have a backup car in the winter. How about an Audi A3?


 
 not out yet is it?


----------



## senson

DG If you ever wanna buy a RWD car in Chicago, at least prepare to buy an extra set of winter tires. it is still not recommended driving RWD in the snow though. I heard you guys got pretty good amount of snow this winter already, OR do what some RWD enthusiasts says "when you get snow drive in reverse! now you have FWD car
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




"


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> not out yet is it?




Summer this year


----------



## Dubstep Girl

senson said:


> DG If you ever wanna buy a RWD car in Chicago, at least prepare to buy an extra set of winter tires. it is still not recommended driving RWD in the snow though. I heard you guys got pretty good amount of snow this winter already, OR do what some RWD enthusiasts says "when you get snow drive in reverse! now you have FWD car
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 so that FR-S would be terrible in snow? 
  
 luckily the CLA 250 is  front wheel drive, also its turbo 4 cylinder instead of v6/v8


----------



## jc9394

FR-S will be like S2000 I had before, as long as you drive after the road is plowed you are fine and becareful of black ice on the road. I spin out numerous time during NE winters.


----------



## senson

dubstep girl said:


> so that FR-S would be terrible in snow?
> 
> luckily the CLA 250 is  front wheel drive, also its turbo 4 cylinder instead of v6/v8


 
 RWD cars can never be a smart idea in bad weather especially on the snow. it is fun to drive though.
 for the price of FR-S or BR-Z I would take a look at the new 2015 WRX which will come out early this year I believe.
 Personally as a person who like to have fun driving, I've never liked FWD cars because of it's torque steer, especially when they try to put more torque by adding turbo but hey they save gas 
 If you like to have a car with good gas mileage, comfort, FWD cars are def the one you want to look for.


----------



## Frank I

senson said:


> Wait! when did Frank start working for Jack?!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 All the Woo amps are here for people to demo in NJ. The WA 234 will be gone for a month but everythign else is avalable for demo. When the WA 234 comes back if anyone is interested I have them running with Omega Super 6 Speakers and have most of the flagship headphones for Demo as well.


----------



## Frank I

​   Wall Street Journal Tech recommends the WA7 Fireflies as the best gear for listening to hi-res audio http://on.wsj.com/1e0taUT


----------



## DoctaCosmos

what options are available from woo that work good for low impedance headphones?  Do tube amps have a problem supplying lots of current?  If not then what would be a good tubey sounding high current model?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Also frank, i would love to demo some gear and would even be willing to go on a little trip tomorrow to audition some amps and high end headphones if i knew i would be able to listen to a large selection of both headphones and amps.  Where are these set ups available to demo?


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> Eric the way I have been working on the new website is there will be a description page of each amplifier and on the comparison page you will be able to compare two amps to each other and see the differences.
> 
> *Their really isn't a full review of each model and I handed the WA 234 review off to another reviewer. I wont be reviewing any products that Woo manufactures anymore because of my affiliation with Woo.* Jack and I are talking about doing a Insider page on the  website where there will be my comments  and impressions of the WA 234 and other products. Those things are being discussed for our sponsor page here and on the new website.
> 
> We really want to take customer service and support to another level entirely. I have also done a headphone comparison page for the website that will include most headphones and what works well with every amplifier we manufacture.


 
 Frank, I think that is a very smart move!


----------



## Frank I

doctacosmos said:


> Also frank, i would love to demo some gear and would even be willing to go on a little trip tomorrow to audition some amps and high end headphones if i knew i would be able to listen to a large selection of both headphones and amps.  Where are these set ups available to demo?


 
 I have in the house now the WA3,WA6,WA2.WA7,WA6SE and the WA5. WES
  
 I have 
  
 HD800,LCD2,LCDX,T!,T51P,Alpha Dog,TH9--. Grado GS1000,Stax 404 LE


----------



## nututubes

dillan said:


> I should try the GEC 6080 then.  I spent a lot of time with the 5998 and just didn't understand the hype.  This was my personal experience and equipment.  It does sound like I need to go for a pair of GEC 6080 ASAP though!


 
 I have a pair NOS NIB that I would be willing to part with. PM if interested.


----------



## kazsud

frank i said:


> I have in the house now the WA3,WA6,WA2.WA7,WA6SE and the WA5. WES
> 
> I have
> 
> HD800,LCD2,LCDX,T!,T51P,Alpha Dog,TH9--. Grado GS1000,Stax 404 LE


 
  
 I'm gonna say it again, you have the most successful retirement


----------



## Frank I

The first part of our new website is now live.Pkease check it out 234mono.com is our new mini site and it ready for orders. The new website will be operational in 4-6 weeks.


----------



## ru4music

frank i said:


> I have in the house now the WA3,WA6,WA2.WA7,WA6SE and the WA5. WES
> 
> I have
> 
> HD800,LCD2,LCDX,T!,T51P,Alpha Dog,TH9--. Grado GS1000,Stax 404 LE


 

 Woo Hoo (pun intended), party at Frank's house!


----------



## ru4music

frank i said:


> The first part of our new website is now live.Pkease check it out 234mono.com is our new mini site and it ready for orders. The new website will be operational in 4-6 weeks.


 

 Look'n good Frank!  I'll be interested to hear/ read some critical reviews of the 234 mono.


----------



## Frank I

There will be some forthcoming. I just sent them out  to a reviewer  and Steve Guttenberg had them for a short time. This will be a thorough review.


----------



## kazsud

frank i said:


> The first part of our new website is now live.Pkease check it out 234mono.com is our new mini site and it ready for orders. The new website will be operational in 4-6 weeks.




Top notch!!


----------



## Frank I

kazsud said:


> Top notch!!


 
 Thank you


----------



## Stekos

My favorite christmas present this year.  Finally got it set up.


----------



## leesure

Back in the Woo family...


----------



## WindyCityCy

Quote:
  
*NICE 22!*
  


leesure said:


> Back in the Woo family...


----------



## koiloco

leesure said:


> Back in the Woo family...


 
 Hey hey, that's mine!  Please return it to me when you are done.


----------



## Frank I

Super Lee!!!!


----------



## jc9394

Time to warm up the Woo for a cold rainy night...


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> Wow ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is one of my first flights. There are some technical problems with the video such as occasional rolling lines (jellies) caused by vibration and flare from shooting into the sun. In addition, YouTube just trashes the quality which is where the blurring and artifacts come from. The full 1920x1080 resolution on a 42" TV really has to be seen to be believed. In any event, as I'm planning on launching it from my boat, I wanted to see if I could catch it when it came back to me. Apparently I can. Price of the DJI Phantom is just under $500. The GoPro Hero is extra.
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlFMGQC1hHo


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> This is one of my first flights. There are some technical problems with the video such as occasional rolling lines (jellies) caused by vibration and flare from shooting into the sun. In addition, YouTube just trashes the quality which is where the blurring and artifacts come from. The full 1920x1080 resolution on a 42" TV really has to be seen to be believed. In any event, as I'm planning on launching it from my boat, I wanted to see if I could catch it when it came back to me. Apparently I can. Price of the DJI Phantom is just under $500. The GoPro Hero is extra.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlFMGQC1hHo


 
 wow - that looks great! 
  
 I have a 1080p projector, i don't suppose you could send a 2 or 3 minute clip (high quality) through drop box?


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> wow - that looks great!
> 
> I have a 1080p projector, i don't suppose you could send a 2 or 3 minute clip (high quality) through drop box?


 

 Let me shoot something worth looking at and then I'll send it.


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> Let me shoot something worth looking at and then I'll send it.


 
 cool


----------



## DoctaCosmos

pretty cool


----------



## punit

Can someone please let me know the difference in sound between the TS 5998 & TS 7236 ? I have read that the TS 7236 has a warm & bassy sound, is the TS 5998 more warmer / bassier ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## koiloco

To me, 7236 bass is more forceful. I prefer 5998 overall for its more relaxing, open sound. Both r great tubes. What HPs? And amp?


----------



## punit

Thanks. T90, HE 500, Denon D5000 (HD 800 being shipped) & Darkvoice 336. Will probably move to a WA2 in the near future, bought the DV 336 used inorder to see if I like the OTL sound, I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . I use the OTL mostly with the T90's, have the WA6 & Lyr for the others.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i find sylvania 7236 is midcentric but somewhat more ss sounding with dynamics and control. the tung sol is similar but alot warmer and a little thick in the mids really tubey but still 7236ish

the 5998 is more relaxed spacious and rich and warm yet well rounded overall. fuller bass


----------



## senson

Finally!! back to WOO family!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 T1+WA2 combo is completed! it is just good.. still waiting for couple of driver tubes.
 Thanks to DG for getting me great deal on tubes!!
 My Audeze is not getting much of head time until new amp arrives


----------



## magiccabbage

senson said:


> Finally!! back to WOO family!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 amazing pictures - what camera and lens did you use? Whats your DAC?


----------



## senson

magiccabbage said:


> amazing pictures - what camera and lens did you use? Whats your DAC?


 
  
 Thank you. It's Canon 6D + 28mm f/1.8.
 My current DAC is Yulong DA8


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Nice pictures!!!


----------



## jc9394




----------



## Frank I

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0114/woo_audio_wtp_1_wds_1.htm


----------



## koiloco

senson said:


> Thank you. It's Canon 6D + *28mm f/1.8.*
> My current DAC is Yulong DA8


 
 +1


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


>


 
 I love starting the day with some great Woo pics! Thanks JC!


----------



## Stekos

Hi,
  
 I have the same iPod dock you have in the pictures.  Can I ask how you have that connected into your DAC/system?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> I love starting the day with some great Woo pics! Thanks JC!


 
  
  
 You welcome.  I will take pics of some Glenn special when I receive the amp back from DG.


----------



## longbowbbs

jc9394 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I love starting the day with some great Woo pics! Thanks JC!
> ...


 
 Can't wait...Can you do some low light tube porn?


----------



## jc9394

longbowbbs said:


> Can't wait...Can you do some low light tube porn?


 
  
  
 Definitely will try, not sure how bright those tubes are.


----------



## Frank I

JC what  lens did you us on that the 24-70 lens


----------



## jc9394

35 f/1.4


----------



## dminches

Are you using an FX or DX body?


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Are you using an FX or DX body?


 
  
  
 Me?  FX body.


----------



## jc9394

Playing with Gary Fong...


----------



## dminches

My 2 bodies are DX-format: D2x and D200.  I would like to get an FX body for close up work.


----------



## jc9394

Did you take a look at the Zeiss?


----------



## dminches

Do their bodies take Nikon lenses?


----------



## jc9394

dminches said:


> Do their bodies take Nikon lenses?


 
  
  
 no, nikon bodies takes their lens but it is manual focus.


----------



## Frank I

I do not think they do.  I am not  going FX because more of what I shoot is sports and I need long lenses. So i get more distance with the DX and the D7100 also hass a second crop 1.3 which makes them longer


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> no, nikon bodies takes their lens but it is manual focus.


 
 you used those on the HD8oo with a leica lens manually- great shots


----------



## jc9394

85mm 100% crop...


----------



## kazsud

jc9394 said:


> Playing with Gary Fong...


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> I do not think they do.  I am not  going FX because more of what I shoot is sports and I need long lenses. So i get more distance with the DX and the D7100 also hass a second crop 1.3 which makes them longer




FX have 1.2 crop and 1.5 DX mode.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

@magiccabbage  saved those pictures and will probably alternate using them as my desktop background   simply stunning


----------



## magiccabbage

doctacosmos said:


> @magiccabbage  saved those pictures and will probably alternate using them as my desktop background   simply stunning


 
 ?? Do you mean Senson's pictures?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

oops yes!  Sensor's pictures.  i scrolled up to see who post the pictures and i didn't see that your post was a quote.  sorry.
 Well thank you Sensor for the great pictures!


----------



## Dillan

jc9394 said:


> Playing with Gary Fong...


 


 Beautiful.


----------



## joseph69

So about a month ago I purchased 2 NIB/NOS Sylvania 6SN7WGT driver/power tubes for my WA6, which I really, really enjoy the sound of. Last week I noticed a feedback/buzzing sound (in between songs) coming from the left driver of my RS1i's, so I pulled the tube out and re-seated it back in the socket and everything was fine for a few days, until I heard it again. So upon hearing it again I switched the tube from the left socket to the right socket, and everything was fine for a week, until tonight when I started hearing the same noise coming from my right driver. I can not hear this noise when the music is playing, and also this happens after about an hour or so after powering up, and (with no music playing) increasing/decreasing the volume has no effect on the volume of the feedback/buzzing noise, it is at a consistent low to moderate level. Being I swapped the tubes and it effected each channel tells me that the tube itself is the issue, not the amp.
 Is this something that may be a little common with tubes, should I be concerned about this?
 Does this feedback/buzzing sound mean that this tube is no good, or on its way out, or is there something I can do to stop this from happening? I would appreciate any comments on the issue, I'm pretty new to the tube amps, and have a long way to go as far as knowledge, thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

still looking at new car possibilities.... now i'm thinking of this but worried about its costs and reliability 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 V6 of course, don't want the hemi.


----------



## koiloco

^ cost would be a concern.  Reliability has improved significantly.  I have owned 2 new american cars and 3 japanese one since I got married 14 years ago.  The american cars did have more little issues here and there but no major one.  The japanese cars weren't perfect either but did have less random small problems overall.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I am also still interested in the 2014 Miata with the hard top and leather seats. but its also pretty expensive and the least practical out of all the cars i want due to its small size. i really want that car though


----------



## koiloco

DG, if you don't go for Hemi, don't get that car.  Go for something else.  The body is quite heavy for the V6, regardless of HP.  When I bought my Jeep Cherokee, I faced the same decision V6 4.0 vs. V8 (Hemi equivalent)  The difference was nite and day.


----------



## Silent One

Gotta get the Hemi! Aren't they (MOPAR) celebrating 50 years with the 2nd Gen Hemi? Let the dealer know with a good discount, you could help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




both the dealer and MOPAR celebrate... and bring friends too!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> I am also still interested in the 2014 Miata with the hard top and leather seats. but its also pretty expensive and the least practical out of all the cars i want due to its small size. i really want that car though




If you really want it, get it while you are still young. You will not have that chance again once you married. I sold my R6 and S2000 shortly after.


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> So about a month ago I purchased 2 NIB/NOS Sylvania 6SN7WGT driver/power tubes for my WA6, which I really, really enjoy the sound of. Last week I noticed a feedback/buzzing sound (in between songs) coming from the left driver of my RS1i's, so I pulled the tube out and re-seated it back in the socket and everything was fine for a few days, until I heard it again. So upon hearing it again I switched the tube from the left socket to the right socket, and everything was fine for a week, until tonight when I started hearing the same noise coming from my right driver. I can not hear this noise when the music is playing, and also this happens after about an hour or so after powering up, and (with no music playing) increasing/decreasing the volume has no effect on the volume of the feedback/buzzing noise, it is at a consistent low to moderate level. Being I swapped the tubes and it effected each channel tells me that the tube itself is the issue, not the amp.
> Is this something that may be a little common with tubes, should I be concerned about this?
> Does this feedback/buzzing sound mean that this tube is no good, or on its way out, or is there something I can do to stop this from happening? I would appreciate any comments on the issue, I'm pretty new to the tube amps, and have a long way to go as far as knowledge, thanks.


 
 I would try to clean the pins to see if it still does that after a good cleaning. Use steel wool on the pins or an old trick is use a pencil eraser on the pins and see if they are clean. if that does not solve the issuethe tube could need replacing.


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> I would try to clean the pins to see if it still does that after a good cleaning. Use steel wool on the pins or an old trick is use a pencil eraser on the pins and see if they are clean. if that does not solve the issuethe tube could need replacing.


 
 Thank you Frank for the info about cleaning the pins. I will try some steel wool with electrical contact cleaner on the pins, and them the eraser, thanks again!


----------



## jc9394

Be careful with steel wool, make sure there is no residue after you clean the pins with it.


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> Be careful with steel wool, make sure there is no residue after you clean the pins with it.


 
 Yes I will be very careful. I was going to use the eraser then alcohol afterward to get all the residue off. Thank you!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> If you really want it, get it while you are still young. You will not have that chance again once you married. I sold my R6 and S2000 shortly after.


 
  
 is the car as fun as people say it is? and ever drive in snow with it? since thats another issue living here in the midwest.
  


koiloco said:


> DG, if you don't go for Hemi, don't get that car.  Go for something else.  The body is quite heavy for the V6, regardless of HP.  When I bought my Jeep Cherokee, I faced the same decision V6 4.0 vs. V8 (Hemi equivalent)  The difference was nite and day.


 
  
 what about the camaro? its a little lighter than the challenger right?


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> is the car as fun as people say it is? and ever drive in snow with it? since thats another issue living here in the midwest.
> 
> 
> what about the camaro? its a little lighter than the challenger right?


 

 if you ask me to choose between camaro and challenger, the answer will be camaro.  It's a very typical big block american muscle car.  Why not as refined as the German ones (much less $ too, of course), American muscle cars are built on a different mentality.  
 I've been tempted with the new corvette very much and trying to control myself.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> is the car as fun as people say it is? and ever drive in snow with it? since thats another issue living here in the midwest.
> 
> 
> what about the camaro? its a little lighter than the challenger right?


 
  
 Yes, you can drive it after snow definitely not during snow.  I change S2000 to snow tires every December when I had it.  Just don;t go crazy with it.  Miata is extremely fun to drive if you are going after curves instead of speed.
  
 I have been looking at the Camaro SS lately but I will keep my G35x as winter/family car.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

aww, ill need to be able to drive thru snow cause of work. Especially during snow storms, if im working a shift when its really bad out, even like at 11pm when the snow hasnt been cleaned, the car has to be able to get me to work


----------



## jc9394

In that case, get the Toyota.


----------



## jc9394

2014 WRX? Fun and handle well in snow.


----------



## jc9394




----------



## 2359glenn

Just get the Yota if reliability and resale value mean anything and they are good in the snow.
 I just got one in 2013


----------



## bbophead

I sure will be glad when DG buys a car.


----------



## prosperone

bbophead said:


> I sure will be glad when DG buys a car.


 

 Figuring out the sound system will be awesome!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> 2014 WRX? Fun and handle well in snow.





Is the non STI version any good?




prosperone said:


> Figuring out the sound system will be awesome!




Wll be stock unfortunately unless someone knows a good place to get a decent system.


----------



## senson

dubstep girl said:


> Is the non STI version any good?
> Wll be stock unfortunately unless someone knows a good place to get a decent system.


 
 The gap between WRX and STI is getting smaller and smaller each year.
 Now it offers 6-speed like STI in 2015, I'm not sure about bolt pattern on new WRX but these two were the reason STI was better than WRX IMO. SO yeah it looks good to me. If you prefer Automatic then I have no idea
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 about the audio system, by changing two front speakers will generally gives you decent sound unless you want boom boom sound like beat headphones in your car. If the full sound system is done correctly It'll be decent but I don't think you want to spend that much of money on your car unless you can do all dynamat work by yourself(this cost a lot of labor charge usually.)


----------



## jc9394

^^^ X2

I actually prefer WRX over STi for daily driver, the suspension is too hard on STi unless you take it to track every weekend. The reliably goes way up in WRX compare to STi.

Don't waste your money on aftermarket stereo, the car/road is too noisy. Spend the money on a home setup.


----------



## JeffA

Woo owners,
 Could someone please rank in order the Woo amplifiers according to their synergy with the Sennheiser HD-800? Which ones to seriously consider and which ones to avoid. FYI, I am not bothered at all by the alleged "treble spike" of the HD-800 and I have a very good DAC. Any informed guidance will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## jc9394

WA5/LE
WA22
WA6SE
WA2
WA6

IMHO, these are my ranking.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> WA5/LE
> WA22
> WA6SE
> WA2
> ...




Agree except for me, i put the wa2 above the wa6-se and the wa22 is only slightly better than wa2 (with fully upgraded tubes)


----------



## Frank I

Using the Wa22 tonight with the upgrade tubes and the LCD X balanced with the Oppo BDP 105 balanced. Sound excellent


----------



## Silent One

frank i said:


> Using the Wa22 tonight with the upgrade tubes and the LCD X balanced with the Oppo BDP 105 balanced. Sound excellent


 
 Great to hear! Wishfully, I'll wait around for a WA5/HE-6 versus WA5/LCD-X comparison. No worries, I'll have tea while I wait.


----------



## joseph69

*Frank I*, I cleaned the pins on the tube today and when I powered the amp up tonight this time as the tube warmed up I heard the noise, and then it went away for the hour and a half that I listened for. I don't know whats going on with it, but I'll live with it, I really like the way these tubes sound, plus like I said, I don't hear it at all when the music is playing. Thank again for your suggestions, I appreciate your help!


----------



## 62ohm

jc9394 said:


> WA5/LE
> WA22
> WA6SE
> WA2
> ...


 
  
 I actually preferred the WA3 over WA6 for HD800 (stock tubes), could be preference factor though. Anyway, new WA3 owner here, and a happy owner I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully going to stay with Woo Audio amps for my future upgrades.


----------



## Frank I

silent one said:


> Great to hear! Wishfully, I'll wait around for a WA5/HE-6 versus WA5/LCD-X comparison. No worries, I'll have tea while I wait.


 
 I am reviewing the LCD X for audio360.org and it will be posted on headfi as well. There will be about 4 of us doing the lCD X comments on audio 360 so stay tuned. It promises to be a big event.


----------



## 62ohm

Can anyone recommend me good drive tubes for WA3 that don't cost more than $200 USD a pair? cheaper option is preferable. Also I plan to get the Tung Sol 7236 Nos as it is recommended by Woo, is that a good plan? Thanks in advance.


----------



## daverich4

frank i said:


> I would try to clean the pins to see if it still does that after a good cleaning. Use steel wool on the pins or an old trick is use a pencil eraser on the pins and see if they are clean. if that does not solve the issuethe tube could need replacing.


 

 I've bought a number of tubes since purchasing my WA22 a year ago and I have the same problem with several of them. I have two different rectifiers that buzz, both tubes in a pair of drivers and one power tube of a pair that I purchased that buzzes. I've been an audiophile for decades but am a newbie in the world of NOS tubes. If the pins are clean and the tube was advertised as NOS should I have returned it to the seller as defective? Maybe that type/manufacturer will always buzz in my amp? Suck it up and accept that's going to happen from time to time when buying vintage tubes? Thanks.


----------



## Frank I

daverich4 said:


> I've bought a number of tubes since purchasing my WA22 a year ago and I have the same problem with several of them. I have two different rectifiers that buzz, both tubes in a pair of drivers and one power tube of a pair that I purchased that buzzes. I've been an audiophile for decades but am a newbie in the world of NOS tubes. If the pins are clean and the tube was advertised as NOS should I have returned it to the seller as defective? Maybe that type/manufacturer will always buzz in my amp? Suck it up and accept that's going to happen from time to time when buying vintage tubes? Thanks.


 
 The tubes should not buzz. The problem when you buy on Ebay is unless you have  a tester it is always a crap shoot unless your buying from seller with lots of positive feedback and a good return policy. The WA22 I have here is dead silent and I been swapping tubes from my collection and there is no noise. Do you have an issue with all rectifier?   What are the tubes you are using that are causing the issues?  Run that by me and lets see if we can get to the problem and help you correct it.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

dubstep girl said:


> still looking at new car possibilities.... now i'm thinking of this but worried about its costs and reliability
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 have you ever seen one of these in person?  they are flippin HUGE.


----------



## joseph69

daverich4 said:


> I've bought a number of tubes since purchasing my WA22 a year ago and I have the same problem with several of them. I have two different rectifiers that buzz, both tubes in a pair of drivers and one power tube of a pair that I purchased that buzzes. I've been an audiophile for decades but am a newbie in the world of NOS tubes. If the pins are clean and the tube was advertised as NOS should I have returned it to the seller as defective? Maybe that type/manufacturer will always buzz in my amp? Suck it up and accept that's going to happen from time to time when buying vintage tubes? Thanks.


 
 The thought also crossed my mind to contact the seller because these were purchased as NOS and their less than a month old. But the noise seems to be coming and going, so I'll live with it. But I would say that I disagree with you saying this is going to happen from time to time, they should be dead silent, like my new 6EW7's from Woo are.


----------



## Frank I

Joseph,
  
 We did not sell you the tubes. The other tubes we sent you were dead silent. Maybe you misunderstood but when you buy on ebay  the quality is not always good. We test our tubes and we make sure we are sending out quality to our customers and we guarantee them. When you buy from Ebay and have no tester expect thing to happen unless you're dealing with a seller who has lots of positive feedback and if there is an issue you need to send them to the seller.  
  
 You should still contact the seller and tell him you're not satisfied.


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Joseph,
> 
> We did not sell you the tubes. The other tubes we sent you were dead silent. Maybe you misunderstood but when you buy on ebay  the quality is not always good. We test our tubes and we make sure we are sending out quality to our customers and we guarantee them. When you buy from Ebay and have no tester expect thing to happen unless you're dealing with a seller who has lots of positive feedback and if there is an issue you need to send them to the seller.
> 
> You should still contact the seller and tell him you're not satisfied.


 
 Frank, you misunderstood what I said. I didn't say you sold me the 6SN7's, I said that they should be dead silent like the 6EW7's that I purchased from Woo, which are dead silent. 
 Besides if I had an issue with a company, I would never speak badly about them on the forum, I would contact them, sorry for your misunderstanding, my comment was a POSITIVE one reffereing to Woo, thanks Joseph.


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> Frank, you misunderstood what I said. I didn't say you sold me the 6SN7's, I said that they should be dead silent like the 6EW7's that I purchased from Woo, which are dead silent.
> Besides if I had an issue with a company, I would never speak badly about them on the forum, I would contact them, sorry for your misunderstanding, my comment was a POSITIVE one reffereing to Woo, thanks Joseph.


 
 Maybe I misunderstood. Sorry for the confusion and you should still contact that seller. Maybe he will replace them for you if he has more. If you would like us to test the tubes for you I can arrange that to see if they are good quality.
  
 Let me know how it turns out and the offer is open if you would like them tested.


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Maybe I misunderstood. Sorry for the confusion and you should still contact that seller. Maybe he will replace them for you if he has more. If you would like us to test the tubes for you I can arrange that to see if they are good quality.
> 
> Let me know how it turns out and the offer is open if you would like them tested.


 
 Thank you very much for the offer Frank. I'm going to contact the seller and see what he says.
 Your service is 2nd to none!!!
 Thank you again, Joseph.


----------



## Frank I

Keep me posted.


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Keep me posted.


 
 I've already contacted the seller letting him know about the issue, and asked for an exchange(if he has them) or a refund. I'm waiting for him to reply, I will keep you posted, thank you.


----------



## GrindingThud

I actually like the 6DJ8 Amperex orange globes from Holland a lot....the A frames. Also like rocket logo 6n1p, but not as much as the Amperex.
7236 is excellent and helps lower the output impedance making for a better low end match for lower-ish impedance phones. I prefer the TungSol (box plates) over the Sylvamia. 




62ohm said:


> Can anyone recommend me good drive tubes for WA3 that don't cost more than $200 USD a pair? cheaper option is preferable. Also I plan to get the Tung Sol 7236 Nos as it is recommended by Woo, is that a good plan? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Cant go wrong with a frames. Lovely tubes


----------



## 62ohm

62ohm said:


> Can anyone recommend me good drive tubes for WA3 that don't cost more than $200 USD a pair? cheaper option is preferable. Also I plan to get the Tung Sol 7236 Nos as it is recommended by Woo, is that a good plan? Thanks in advance.


 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## daverich4

frank i said:


> The tubes should not buzz. The problem when you buy on Ebay is unless you have  a tester it is always a crap shoot unless your buying from seller with lots of positive feedback and a good return policy. The WA22 I have here is dead silent and I been swapping tubes from my collection and there is no noise. Do you have an issue with all rectifier?   What are the tubes you are using that are causing the issues?  Run that by me and lets see if we can get to the problem and help you correct it.


 

 Hi Frank,
 The power tube that hums is a Tungsol 5998 that was bought as 1/2 of a matched pair. I purchased them from a dealer that is commonly recommended on this forum. It arrived with glass rattling around inside it but when I called the dealer they said that was common and shouldn't be a problem. The dealer has a one month warranty. The tube started to hum 5 weeks after I received it and the dealer offered to sell me another one at the same price. The other tubes were purchased from dealers on EBay with 1,0000+ 100% feedback. The drivers are Sylvania 6SN7GT's that were bought as a set and both hum. I also have two Western Electric 422A's that hum. The drivers and power tube can barely be heard as long as I keep the power switch on low but the 422A's are pretty noticeable even on low until there is music playing. I don't care about the 5998 as I have two other pairs that are completely quiet. I also have two pairs of Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7WGTA's that are completely quiet that I prefer sonically to the other Sylvania drivers anyway. What I do care about are the WE422A's. Everything Dubstep Girl has written about them is true. I just love that tube but I don't want to buy another one if I'm going to end up with the same hum. They both came in mint condition with shiny pins and factory boxes. Someplace I have the test results listed in the ad but have no way to test them myself. It's past time to return them if that's what I should have done to begin with. Live and learn if that's the case. I recently bought a really nice set of GEC 6AS7G's from Dubstep Girl but she didn't advertise her WE422A so I'm in the market if anyone can suggest a reliable source. Or preferably a fix for the one's I already have.


----------



## 62ohm

grindingthud said:


> I actually like the 6DJ8 Amperex orange globes from Holland a lot....the A frames. Also like rocket logo 6n1p, but not as much as the Amperex.
> 7236 is excellent and helps lower the output impedance making for a better low end match for lower-ish impedance phones. I prefer the TungSol (box plates) over the Sylvamia.


 
  
 Hi mate, thanks for the recommendation, looks like a solid option.
  
 Also, I found these 2 Tung Sol 6080 on ebay, are these the same as the one recommended by Woo? It costs much less, so I'm a bit sceptical...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6080-Electron-Aduio-Tube-Socket-with-Original-Box-Vintage-3226318-308-/291056703716?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43c454d8e4
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Tung-Sol-USA-6080-6AS7GA-Black-Plate-3-Mica-S-Rods-Vacuum-Tube-88-105-/121243060937?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c3aa64ac9


----------



## GrindingThud

Those are 6080 not 7236. The 7236 are harder to find and carry a higher price tag. For 6080, the TungSol ones with the metal mica holders like you pictured are amongst the better 6080s.



62ohm said:


> Hi mate, thanks for the recommendation, looks like a solid option.
> 
> Also, I found these 2 Tung Sol 6080 on ebay, are these the same as the one recommended by Woo? It costs much less, so I'm a bit sceptical...
> 
> ...


----------



## 62ohm

grindingthud said:


> Those are 6080 not 7236. The 7236 are harder to find and carry a higher price tag. For 6080, the TungSol ones with the metal mica holders like you pictured are amongst the better 6080s.


 
  
 So it would still be an upgrade over the stock tubes, but not as good as the 7236 sold by Woo?


----------



## GrindingThud

Good is a relative term...as is upgrade. Other than how quiet the tubes are (ideally they should be silent), you won't hear significant differences across the 6080 tubes, with maybe exception of the bendix graphite plate types which many (including me) say have a better sound stage. What's good about the 7236 (and 5998) is it lowers output impedance of the amp and gets a little more thud into lower impedance phones. I think you have high impedance headphones (HD800?)...so I'll have to defer to someone with those to say if they prefer 7236, 5998, or 6080 for them. 



62ohm said:


> So it would still be an upgrade over the stock tubes, but not as good as the 7236 sold by Woo?


----------



## 62ohm

grindingthud said:


> Good is a relative term...as is upgrade. Other than how quiet the tubes are (ideally they should be silent), you won't hear significant differences across the 6080 tubes, with maybe exception of the bendix graphite plate types which many (including me) say have a better sound stage. What's good about the 7236 (and 5998) is it lowers output impedance of the amp and gets a little more thud into lower impedance phones. I think you have high impedance headphones (HD800?)...so I'll have to defer to someone with those to say if they prefer 7236, 5998, or 6080 for them.


 
  
 rofl I guess tube rolling is not as simple as I first thought it would be


----------



## Frank I

daverich4 said:


> Hi Frank,
> The power tube that hums is a Tungsol 5998 that was bought as 1/2 of a matched pair. I purchased them from a dealer that is commonly recommended on this forum. It arrived with glass rattling around inside it but when I called the dealer they said that was common and shouldn't be a problem. The dealer has a one month warranty. The tube started to hum 5 weeks after I received it and the dealer offered to sell me another one at the same price. The other tubes were purchased from dealers on EBay with 1,0000+ 100% feedback. The drivers are Sylvania 6SN7GT's that were bought as a set and both hum. I also have two Western Electric 422A's that hum. The drivers and power tube can barely be heard as long as I keep the power switch on low but the 422A's are pretty noticeable even on low until there is music playing. I don't care about the 5998 as I have two other pairs that are completely quiet. I also have two pairs of Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7WGTA's that are completely quiet that I prefer sonically to the other Sylvania drivers anyway. What I do care about are the WE422A's. Everything Dubstep Girl has written about them is true. I just love that tube but I don't want to buy another one if I'm going to end up with the same hum. They both came in mint condition with shiny pins and factory boxes. Someplace I have the test results listed in the ad but have no way to test them myself. It's past time to return them if that's what I should have done to begin with. Live and learn if that's the case. I recently bought a really nice set of GEC 6AS7G's from Dubstep Girl but she didn't advertise her WE422A so I'm in the market if anyone can suggest a reliable source. Or preferably a fix for the one's I already have.


 
 Dave I find it interesting that some tubes are completely quiet while other  hum I was going to suggest trying a cheater plug in the outlet to see if that eliminates the humming issue and you may want to try that anyway. I am not familiar with using the 422A  now would I know anyone even to recommend to get them from. I just changed the rectifier in the Wa 22 to the Princess 274B and using the sylvania 67n7GT tubes plus the upgraded tungol 7236 and it dead quiet and was with the stock tubes as well.
  
 Weird one of your issue are with certain types of tubes other than rectifiers and also with rectifiers yet others are dead silent. I would try to see if you can use a cheater plug or power conditioner to see if that will help you eliminate the issue. Hum is usually the result of the tube and sometimes a low level hum can come from transformers as well but since you are getting quite response with certain tubes its telling me the tube are part of the issue or sometime using a cheater plug will help eliminate the hum.
  
 Let me know if you try the cheater plug and see if that helps first.


----------



## GrindingThud

This thread is worth a read:
http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,3453.msg30393.html#msg30393



62ohm said:


> rofl I guess tube rolling is not as simple as I first thought it would be


----------



## joseph69

Hi Frank, the seller contacted me and is going to give me a new set of tubes on Friday.
 I know I keep thanking you but…Thank you again for all of your support!!!


----------



## Frank I

Great new Joseph. if you need anything else just shout out to me .


----------



## Frank I




----------



## koiloco

^ can't let you be all alone.  I just threw away 2 ken rad VT231.  Out of 4 from ebay, only 2 are good.  Unfortunately, the bad 2 developed problems weeks after purchase.  
 Still, they are my fav driver tubes so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thx again for recommending Woo to me.


----------



## jc9394

WA22... I missed mine. You should try metal base GZ34 and GEC 6AS7G, it is the best combo I ever tried.


----------



## talmlikeabalm

How much difference is there with changing driver tubes in the wa22? I have tung sol mouse ears in there right now. Thinking about the vt231.


----------



## koiloco

^ I've been keeping an eye for gz34 metal base on ebay but the price is quite stiff.  I wanna clearly internalize each tube combo first.  
 For HD800, I think I really like TS5998 + ken rad right now.  I switch in 7236 for the HE500.


----------



## jc9394

I like the GEC with HD800, Diana Krall's voice to die for.


----------



## jc9394

talmlikeabalm said:


> How much difference is there with changing driver tubes in the wa22? I have tung sol mouse ears in there right now. Thinking about the vt231.




I never tried the mouse ears.


----------



## koiloco

talmlikeabalm said:


> How much difference is there with changing driver tubes in the wa22? I have tung sol mouse ears in there right now. Thinking about the vt231.


 
 For me and to my ears, the difference is huge between ken rad vt231 and RCA grey glass/6SN7 GTA/B(GE, Raytheon, RCA...).   I can for sure tell them apart from the ken rad vt231 even in blind tests. However, if they are same models, same grade driver tubes, I am not 100% how much of a difference I'll hear.  Try it out with some cheaper VT231.   Too much fun.


----------



## jc9394

Go with the holy grail TS6SN7 BGRP and be done with it.


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> Go with the holy grail TS6SN7 BGRP and be done with it.


 
  
 lol, that will hurt my toy budget dearly.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

GEC 6AS7G


----------



## daverich4

grindingthud said:


> Good is a relative term...as is upgrade. Other than how quiet the tubes are (ideally they should be silent), you won't hear significant differences across the 6080 tubes, with maybe exception of the bendix graphite plate types which many (including me) say have a better sound stage. What's good about the 7236 (and 5998) is it lowers output impedance of the amp and gets a little more thud into lower impedance phones. I think you have high impedance headphones (HD800?)...so I'll have to defer to someone with those to say if they prefer 7236, 5998, or 6080 for them.



I much prefer the 5998's over the 7236's with my HD800's. Not only are they more powerful but I find the bass to be fuller and better defined.


----------



## daverich4

frank i said:


> Dave I find it interesting that some tubes are completely quiet while other  hum I was going to suggest trying a cheater plug in the outlet to see if that eliminates the humming issue and you may want to try that anyway. I am not familiar with using the 422A  now would I know anyone even to recommend to get them from. I just changed the rectifier in the Wa 22 to the Princess 274B and using the sylvania 67n7GT tubes plus the upgraded tungol 7236 and it dead quiet and was with the stock tubes as well.
> 
> Weird one of your issue are with certain types of tubes other than rectifiers and also with rectifiers yet others are dead silent. I would try to see if you can use a cheater plug or power conditioner to see if that will help you eliminate the issue. Hum is usually the result of the tube and sometimes a low level hum can come from transformers as well but since you are getting quite response with certain tubes its telling me the tube are part of the issue or sometime using a cheater plug will help eliminate the hum.
> 
> Let me know if you try the cheater plug and see if that helps first.


 

 I already use a pretty decent power conditioner but tried a cheater plug anyway with no change in the amount of hum. I guess I'll start looking for a replacement. I don't actually know why I'm being so anal about it. With the power switch set to the low position the hum is barely noticeable and doesn't affect the music at all. It's just that all my other rectifiers are dead quiet and I'd like a WE422a that is the same. Going forward, would it be reasonable to ask a seller to take back a tube if it hums? That is, does hum indicate a defective tube? Also, is there a list of tubes someplace of the NOS tubes Woo Audio has to sell? The pair of Sylvania 7236's that I bought from Jack were listed on the web site but I only knew about the USAF 596 that I bought from him because it was mentioned on this forum. Thanks.


----------



## Frank I

Since the amp is only doing it with different types of tubes one would assume it is the tubes.  Most tube sellers will replace if they are reputable but it could also be handy have a tube tester on hand. Many are on ebay and I picked up a Knight for 115.00 and it works well for basic test but check tube bases also make sure they are not loose and you ask.


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> WA22... I missed mine. You should try metal base GZ34 and GEC 6AS7G, it is the best combo I ever tried.


 
  
  
 any difference between the matal base and the brown base?  it's much cheaper now for the brown base.


----------



## jc9394

fhuang said:


> any difference between the matal base and the brown base?  it's much cheaper now for the brown base.


 
  
  
 yes, the last 5-10%
  
 The metal base is more dynamic and smoother than brown base one but you have to compare side by side to notice the difference.


----------



## fhuang

jc9394 said:


> yes, the last 5-10%
> 
> The metal base is more dynamic and smoother than brown base one but you have to compare side by side to notice the difference.


 
  
 i remember you liked it with the wa22.  still like them with wa5le?


----------



## jc9394

Can't find a affordable matched pair yet. Spending too much money on another hobby.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the metal base is the best GZ34, by a reasonable margin. I would guess that the 1950s fat black base and the 1950s brown base are closer to the original metal base version, and might be worth buying if you want more bang for the buck since they are cheaper. The regular black base GZ34 isn't as good as the metal base, not even close. But it is still a nice tube if you like its cooler more SS aggressive/forward kinda sound.


----------



## 62ohm

Can anyone help me selecting the best in terms of warmth (under $100 ones, under $80 is preferable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) tubes here http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6dj8.html 
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the JAN Sylvania 7308 there listed as well as the first Amperex Bugle Boy's listed are good. Maybe even the mullards.


----------



## 62ohm

dubstep girl said:


> the JAN Sylvania 7308 there listed as well as the first Amperex Bugle Boy's listed are good. Maybe even the mullards.


 
  
 The Amperex Buggle Boys are too expensive for me. I am a complete beginner in tube rolling, don't think it's a good idea to leap ahead into the $100+ territory, let alone the $150 amperex recommended by woo lol. Probably gonna try a pair of the JAN Sylvania 7308, thanks a lot DG!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

62ohm said:


> The Amperex Buggle Boys are too expensive for me. I am a complete beginner in tube rolling, don't think it's a good idea to leap ahead into the $100+ territory, let alone the $150 amperex recommended by woo lol. Probably gonna try a pair of the JAN Sylvania 7308, thanks a lot DG!


 
  
 you might also want to consider the Reflector 6N23P-EV, they are rather commonly available, and while a warm tube, they do have a slight treble peak, kinda a U shaped tube in a way but without recessed mids. They have a ton of bass and are like 50$ a pair or less depending on where you get them.
  
 they are similar to the 7308 but with a little more bass and treble.


----------



## 62ohm

dubstep girl said:


> you might also want to consider the Reflector 6N23P-EV, they are rather commonly available, and while a warm tube, they do have a slight treble peak, kinda a U shaped tube in a way but without recessed mids. They have a ton of bass and are like 50$ a pair or less depending on where you get them.
> 
> they are similar to the 7308 but with a* little more bass *and treble.


 
  
 I kinda hate too much bass, but for $50 a pair its worth a shot. Thanks mate, this is exactly what I need to begin my tube rolling journey.


----------



## joseph69

62ohm said:


> I kinda hate too much bass, but for $50 a pair its worth a shot. Thanks mate, this is exactly what I need to begin my tube rolling journey.


 
 Which amp do you own? I received 6EW7's with my WA6, and they sound really nice, and can be purchased from Woo. I also am in the process of burning in some Slyvania 6SN7 WGT's which I really like also, but they were $100.00.


----------



## joseph69

*Frank I*, I met with the seller who sold me the 6SN7's, and he gave me new ones, and they are dead silent (so far), hoping they will stay that way, thanks again.


----------



## 62ohm

joseph69 said:


> Which amp do you own? I received 6EW7's with my WA6, and they sound really nice, and can be purchased from Woo. I also am in the process of burning in some Slyvania 6SN7 WGT's which I really like also, but they were $100.00.


 
  
 I'm using the WA3, do they use the same drive tube as WA6?


----------



## hodgjy

62ohm said:


> I'm using the WA3, do they use the same drive tube as WA6?


 
 No, very different tubes.


----------



## joseph69

62ohm said:


> I'm using the WA3, do they use the same drive tube as WA6?


 
 Not sure at all, but I didn't know if you had the WA6. I'm new to the WA6, as well as tube rolling myself, ask *DG*, she has quite some experience with Woo product.
  
 There is a tube compatibility chart on here for Woo, i tried to send you the link, but its located in my bookmarks and I couldn't do it, but I'll also take a look to see if it is compatible according to the chart, give me 5 minutes.


----------



## joseph69

No, sorry, either of the tubes I mentioned I'm using in the WA6 are not compatible with the WA3 according to the chart.


----------



## 62ohm

joseph69 said:


> Not sure at all, but I didn't know if you had the WA6. I'm new to the WA6, as well as tube rolling myself, ask *DG*, she has quite some experience with Woo product.
> 
> There is a tube compatibility chart on here for Woo, i tried to send you the link, but its located in my bookmarks and I couldn't do it, but I'll also take a look to see if it is compatible according to the chart, give me 5 minutes.


 


joseph69 said:


> No, sorry, either of the tubes I mentioned I'm using in the WA6 are not compatible with the WA3 according to the chart.


 
  
  
 All good mate, Woo's website provide the compatibility chart as well in the user's manual.


----------



## Frank I

joseph69 said:


> *Frank I*, I met with the seller who sold me the 6SN7's, and he gave me new ones, and they are dead silent (so far), hoping they will stay that way, thanks again.


 
 Great and glad it worked out for you


----------



## 62ohm

Does anyone know how the 7DJ8 / PCC88 Mullard UK / Amperex Holland compares to the 7308 JAN Sylvania? Thanks


----------



## jc9394

I just lost my Woo membership, I'm Woo-less now.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I just lost my Woo membership, I'm Woo-less now.


 
  
 oooh so u decided to sell?
  
 and lol join the club!


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> oooh so u decided to sell?
> 
> and lol join the club!


 
  
  
 It is always available, I just did not bump it.  it sell it sell, now it is kinda of sad since the HD800 sounded so good last night.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> It is always available, I just did not bump it.  it sell it sell, now it is kinda of sad since the HD800 sounded so good last night.


 





 Yeah, we've been Woo-less for a hot minute on the West coast....


----------



## jc9394

now the question is, should i continue on tubes or be happy with beta22?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> now the question is, should i continue on tubes or be happy with beta22?


 
  
 Fascinating. Even more fascinating would be enjoying bowls of green tea over the winter.... _contemplating._


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Fascinating. Even more fascinating would be enjoying bowls of green tea over the winter.... _contemplating._


 
  
 I did enjoyed 15 yrs old Pu-erh last night with Woo...


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> now the question is, should i continue on tubes or be happy with beta22?


 
  
 I am very happy with my beta22. It sounds really great with currently recorded music. The soundtrack from Sherlock Holmes, A Game of Shadows is incredible on the beta22. It's a combo of orchestra and electronic instruments by Hans Zimmer.


----------



## jc9394

I will check it out, I still going to keep the OTL.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> I will check it out, I still going to keep the OTL.


 
  
 Me too!


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I did enjoyed 15 yrs old Pu-erh last night with Woo...


 





 _Wisely done._


----------



## jc9394

Listening the same playlist with beta22 now, it is really good but it seems like something is missing. The tube glow/warmth on a cold snowy night. :mad:


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Listening the same playlist with beta22 now, it is really good but it seems like something is missing. The tube glow/warmth on a cold snowy night.


 

 Whiskey can take care of the glow. A night without music whether ss or tube is always a deep freeze.


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> Whiskey can take care of the glow. A night without music whether ss or tube is always a deep freeze.




You read my mind, have a glass of Japanese single malt tonight while listening...


----------



## koiloco

^ what a bunch of alcoholics! Where's my tequila?


----------



## jc9394

I feel weird not having a Woo.  The WA6 maxxed it the second amp I purchased since joined head-fi, which is 6+ years ago.


----------



## kazsud

jc9394 said:


> I feel weird not having a Woo.  The WA6 maxxed it the second amp I purchased since joined head-fi, which is 6+ years ago.



 


Get a Wa2.


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > I feel weird not having a Woo.  The WA6 maxxed it the second amp I purchased since joined head-fi, which is 6+ years ago.
> ...


 
  
  
 WA2 does not wow me, had it before.


----------



## Clayton SF

The only Woo that Wows me is the WA4. At least for today.


----------



## jc9394

never auditioned a WA4, may need to knock on your door next time in SF area.  WA22 and WA5LE did wows me, two very different amps.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> never auditioned a WA4, may need to knock on your door next time in SF area.  WA22 and WA5LE did wows me, two very different amps.


 
  
 The door is open!


----------



## jc9394

clayton sf said:


> The door is open!


 
  
  
 Sake before or after?  or pizza before or after since we are talking pizza in other thread.


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> I feel weird not having a Woo.  The WA6 maxxed it the second amp I purchased since joined head-fi, which is 6+ years ago.


 
 What exactly do you mean by maxed?
 Do you mean used it until it died, beyond repair? If so how old was it?
 Just asking because I recently purchased a WA6, and I love it. Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

When we said maxxed on Woo amps, we mean parts upgrade with Blackgates caps. I have not heard an Woo amp die.


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> When we said maxxed on Woo amps, we mean parts upgrade with Blackgates caps. I have not heard an Woo amp die.


 
 Thanks, was hoping you meant this, not dead!
 When I ordered my WA6 I asked if I could have it upgraded with the Blackgate caps, and they were no longer available. Is there a significant sound difference?


----------



## jc9394

I think my WA6 was the last maxxed Jack offered. To me, it is faster, better mid, and wider soundstage.


----------



## Silent One

You could always take it/ship it somewhere and get it Hot Rodded. Or send the parts to WooAudio.... don't forget 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the amp!


----------



## jc9394

I think the problem is how difficult to get those BGs but we can always use Auricap or Vcap.


----------



## bbophead

jc9394 said:


> I think the problem is how difficult to get those BGs but we can always use Auricap or Vcap.


 
 Don't the blackgates takes hundreds of hours to break in?


----------



## jc9394

bbophead said:


> Don't the blackgates takes hundreds of hours to break in?


 
  
  
 Yes around 400 before it settles down, it was a torture when I first got it.  I was like What, it sound worst than the regular version.


----------



## Silent One

I've read some of these boutique caps can take anywhere from 400-700 hours before they get themselves right.


----------



## Clayton SF

My WA4 is modded to the max as well with BGs and V-Caps. Love the sound.


----------



## 62ohm

Ordered a Tung Sol 7236, my very first tube purchase. Hope I won't be disappointed...


----------



## Csericks

You will love the TS 7236!


----------



## GrindingThud

The TS7236 is an excellent tube... 



62ohm said:


> Ordered a Tung Sol 7236, my very first tube purchase. Hope I won't be disappointed...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i prefer the sylvania 7236 to the tung sol 7236, oh and the 5998. but the 7236 is a pretty nice tube overall.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i prefer the sylvania 7236 to the tung sol 7236, oh and the 5998. but the 7236 is a pretty nice tube overall.


 
  
 I have not tried it on the OTL yet but with WA22 I have to go with TS over Sylvania.  
  
 Off topic, do you still have any 7236/5998?  I need a pair.


----------



## jc9394

Again i feel a little emptiness without a Woo amp, I think it is just because I always have a Woo amp in my house since I joined HF.


----------



## WindyCityCy

jc9394 said:


> Again i feel a little emptiness without a Woo amp, I think it is just because I always have a Woo amp in my house since I joined HF.


 

 get another!  I will never sell mine.  every time someone comes over they ask what it is.  it's art whether headphones are plugged in or not!


----------



## 62ohm

jc9394 said:


> Again i feel a little emptiness without a Woo amp, I think it is just because I always have a Woo amp in my house since I joined HF.


 
  
 I guess it's time for you to get the WA-234


----------



## Silent One

windycitycy said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Again i feel a little emptiness without a Woo amp, I think it is just because I always have a Woo amp in my house since I joined HF.
> ...


 
  
 My _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition?_ I just love typing it out in full 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... but I'm with both of you and enjoyed the sound signature and its aesthetic. The latter even when not playing - a joy each time I entered the room.
  
 I never intended to sell it, but the right person came along and inquired. As much as I value gear, I place a higher value on relations in this hobby... _it's about living well._


----------



## koiloco

62ohm said:


> I guess it's time for you to get the WA-234


 
 +1 best advice in this Woo thread.  Everrrrr.....


----------



## Dillan

I want the WA-234!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I have not tried it on the OTL yet but with WA22 I have to go with TS over Sylvania.
> 
> Off topic, do you still have any 7236/5998?  I need a pair.


 
  
 yes i do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 im trying to get rid of my 7236's since i have a pair of tung sol and 2 pairs of sylvania i wanna get rid of. oh and a 5998 pair of course.


----------



## jc9394

DG, Pm me the details


----------



## 62ohm

Has anyone tried the WA-234 with any cans?


----------



## jc9394

Way too expense for my blood. For that price, going speaker setup.


----------



## Silent One

I haven't yet... but my HE-6 will be ready shortly.


----------



## jc9394

Getting a demo WA234 SO?


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> Way too expense for my blood. For that price, going speaker setup.


 
 I agree. They are more expensive by a significant amount than my McIntosh MC-601 monoblocks


----------



## Silent One

Nah... I'm gonna drop by Frank's place! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or should.


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Way too expense for my blood. For that price, going speaker setup.
> ...


 
 Further, I'm not interested in the packaged flexibility. That built-in premium could be better applied by me elsewhere.


----------



## Frank I

SO you are most welcome to stop by if your on the East Coast. We will be in Newport Beach this year and hopefully setup there as well with the WA 234, They are at a reviewer until the second week in February then they coming back here. If anyone is interested they are welcome to stop in to listen to the Woo products for an audition. I have had some people over and done demos with the gear already,


----------



## GalaxyGuy

Frank, if you come to the CA Audio Show again this year, you should schlep out the 234!  We'd love to hear it out here on the left coast!


----------



## Frank I

I am no longer doing anymore consulting for Woo.  My time ended with them so I wont be attending the Frisco show this year. Warren Chi and I are organizing the Capitol Audiofest this year in DC.


----------



## bbophead

frank i said:


> I am no longer doing anymore consulting for Woo.  My time ended with them so I wont be attending the Frisco show this year. Warren Chi and I are organizing the Capitol Audiofest this year in DC.


 
 LOL!  Wha hoppen?


----------



## Frank I

LOL   I decided it was time to move on to other projects..


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> LOL   I decided it was time to move on to other projects..


 
 You don't work for woo anymore? That was very brief. Hope all is well.


----------



## Frank I

I am well. LOL


----------



## GalaxyGuy

frank i said:


> I am no longer doing anymore consulting for Woo.  My time ended with them so I wont be attending the Frisco show this year. Warren Chi and I are organizing the Capitol Audiofest this year in DC.


 
 Bummer!  Maybe Jack will come this year...


----------



## 62ohm

Tung Sol 7236 has finally arrived! After 2 weeks lol, kinda took a long time to get here, but then again I only paid $5 for shipping from US to NZ.


----------



## magiccabbage

Woo in the sun


----------



## bbophead

magiccabbage said:


> Woo in the sun


 
 Woo always looks good!  Nice, different shots.


----------



## Dillan

magiccabbage said:


> Woo in the sun


 
  
 I have the same setup.  Thing of beauty!  Visually and sonically.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Love the pics.

U just need gec 6as7 tubes


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Love the pics.
> 
> U just need gec 6as7 tubes




That is the holy grail for wa2 and wa22.


----------



## 62ohm

magiccabbage said:


> Woo in the sun


 
  
 How does the Arcam rDac sounds with your setup? Does it lean towards brighten the sound sig, or warm it up?
  


dubstep girl said:


> Love the pics.
> 
> U just need gec 6as7 tubes


 
  
 lol you can identify his tubes just by looking at their pics?


----------



## jc9394

DG is that good. I think that is 5998, definitely not GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> How does the Arcam rDac sounds with your setup? Does it lean towards brighten the sound sig, or warm it up?
> 
> 
> lol you can identify his tubes just by looking at their pics?


 
 Warm i would say, def not bright. 


dubstep girl said:


> Love the pics.
> 
> U just need gec 6as7 tubes


 
 I will get them, eventually. 


jc9394 said:


> DG is that good. I think that is 5998, definitely not GEC 6AS7G.


 
 yea its 5998  
  
 I had to shrink those pics down to 1/10th the original size just to fit them on the site.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> That is the holy grail for wa2 and wa22.




And 2359glenn OTL


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> And 2359glenn OTL


 

 & Bottle Head Crack too (IMHO).


----------



## Dillan

Speaking of which..
  
 I think that it's about time I try out some more tubes as well.


----------



## 62ohm

After a few hours of listening, I noticed that the enclosure of my WA3 runs much cooler with the Tung Sol 7236. It used to be blazing hot with the stock 6080, is this normal?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yes


----------



## 62ohm

Can anyone recommend me a website that sells 6922 / 6DJ8 / 7DJ8 / 7308 tubes? Cheers.


----------



## Frank I

There are some excellent dealers for 6922,6dj8 Upscale Audio has all those and Jmcshane@prodigy.ne tis also excellent for current production tubes where Upscale has more nOS. another good vendor is Tubemonger. They have all NOS tubes.


----------



## 62ohm

frank i said:


> There are some excellent dealers for 6922,6dj8 Upscale Audio has all those and Jmcshane@prodigy.ne tis also excellent for current production tubes where Upscale has more nOS. another good vendor is Tubemonger. They have all NOS tubes.


 
  
 Thanks a lot mate!


----------



## Frank I

Those guys are super if your looking for new production buy the Genelex 6922 from Jim McShane . He matches them properly


----------



## hodgjy

Tubemonger.com is great. Highly recommended.


----------



## 62ohm

I've put an order on tubemonger, how long does it usually take for their goods to arrive?


----------



## Frank I

They ship usually in 48 hrs


----------



## punit

Has anyone heard the GEC 6080WA ? How do they compare vs. GEC 6AS7G ?


----------



## jc9394

The GEC 6080WA is the best 6080 I ever heard, pairs very well with HD800.  Good all around tube for all genre but the GEC 6AS7G takes it to another level, it is like the extra 10% we are pushing.


----------



## punit

How would you compare the GEC 6080WA vs TS 5998? 

Thanks


----------



## Dillan

jc9394 said:


> The GEC 6080WA is the best 6080 I ever heard, pairs very well with HD800.  Good all around tube for all genre but the GEC 6AS7G takes it to another level, it is like the extra 10% we are pushing.


 
  
 Where could I find a matched GEC 6AS7G pair?
  
 I bet the sound is incredible. 
  
 I love my RCA 6AS7G (even more than the TS 5998)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i still have a pair of GEC 6080WA 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/321312637695?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
  
  
 GEC 6AS7G are found on ebay, those uk sellers, they can be pricy though, curved base pair for like 572$ and single straight bases for 200+ and 250 + for curved. they tend to sell singles more than pairs too.
  
 i got 1 gec single left as well. i sold all my curved/straight pairs. so hard to find... seems like those UK sellers on ebay really control the market, i rarely see anyone else put any up for sale.
  
  
 soundwise, i think GEC 6080WA are really nice, warm and less airy than 6AS7G instead of being open and airy, they tend to be warmer and more bodied almost like a tung sol but different, almost RCA like in some ways, but without that crappy treble those have.


----------



## punit

I find the GEC 6AS7G a bit bright with the T90's, whereas the TS 5998 is warm & musical but feel I am loosing a bit of micro details (as compared to 6AS7G), will the GEC 6080WA be a middle ground between the 2 ?


----------



## jc9394

dillan said:


> Where could I find a matched GEC 6AS7G pair?
> 
> I bet the sound is incredible.
> 
> I love my RCA 6AS7G (even more than the TS 5998)


 
  
 I have a NOS matched pair for sale.  They are my favorite when I had WA22, at one time, I have 4 pairs.  Keeping the last NOS pair just incase I may get another 6080 amp and recently decided to go with 300B amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> I find the GEC 6AS7G a bit bright with the T90's, whereas the TS 5998 is warm & musical but feel I am loosing a bit of micro details (as compared to 6AS7G), will the GEC 6080WA be a middle ground between the 2 ?


 
  
 i think so.
  
 GEC 6080WA might be around tung sol in detail, maybe a little more, its similar but warmer. it'll have nicer warm and more musicality than tung sol even, i don't think its as super detailed as 6as7g though. 
  
 and beyerdynamic doesn't pair well with GEC 6AS7G, lacks bass and seems a little leaner to me. its more of an hd 800 tube.
  
 i think the 6080 would be nice but dont remember how well it compares to 5998.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> How would you compare the GEC 6080WA vs TS 5998?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 The  TS 5998 is more punchy and dynamic, the GEC are more forgiving without lost of details.  TS 5998 is better with LCD and GEC 6080/6AS7G is better with HD800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> The  TS 5998 is more punchy and dynamic, the GEC are more forgiving without lost of details.  TS 5998 is better with LCD and GEC 6080/6AS7G is better with HD800.


 
  
  
 This
  
  
 also after heearing 6080 gec, i think it would be nice with beyers and others as well. seemed to have a nice bass and smoothness to it that other tubes lack.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i still have a pair of GEC 6080WA
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321312637695?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I think the matched pairs are all gone, I brought mines from a tube dealer in HK but he don't have any of matched one anymore the last time I visited him.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> This
> 
> 
> also after heearing 6080 gec, i think it would be nice with beyers and others as well. seemed to have a nice bass and smoothness to it that other tubes lack.


 
  
 Never owned a Beyers before, was thinking picking up your T1 but decided to get a TH900 instead.  Now no more toy budget to get anything until later this year.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 How is the new ride coming along?


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> I find the GEC 6AS7G a bit bright with the T90's, whereas the TS 5998 is warm & musical but feel I am loosing a bit of micro details (as compared to 6AS7G), will the GEC 6080WA be a middle ground between the 2 ?


 
  
  
 How many hours are the GEC 6AS7G?  I never find it bright with any headphone I tried (never tried a Beyers).  What amp and other tubes you are using?


----------



## punit

It has about 100 hrs , using it with Bttlhd Crack. I don't find it bright with HD 800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Never owned a Beyers before, was thinking picking up your T1 but decided to get a TH900 instead.  Now no more toy budget to get anything until later this year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i was thinking of selling TH-900 too, but decided to keep, its a good headphone.
  


jc9394 said:


> I think the matched pairs are all gone, I brought mines from a tube dealer in HK but he don't have any of matched one anymore the last time I visited him.


 
  
 yeah, im amazing mine havent sold too. im selling a pair for the price that taiwan ebay sellers are selling a single tube for.


----------



## Dillan

jc9394 said:


> The  TS 5998 is more punchy and dynamic, the GEC are more forgiving without lost of details.  TS 5998 is better with LCD and GEC 6080/6AS7G is better with HD800.


 
  
 I think this is 100% right.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> It has about 100 hrs , using it with Bttlhd Crack. I don't find it bright with HD 800.


 
  
  
 Give it another 150 hours, my first pair settle down around 250 hours.  I was using WA22 with TS 6SN7 BGRP and metal base GZ34.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> i was thinking of selling TH-900 too, but decided to keep, its a good headphone.
> 
> 
> yeah, im amazing mine havent sold too. im selling a pair for the price that taiwan ebay sellers are selling a single tube for.


 
  
  
 pp is looking for a bargain, someone offered me $300 for the GEC 6AS7G pair shipped to Asia.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> pp is looking for a bargain, someone offered me $300 for the GEC 6AS7G pair shipped to Asia.


 
  
 yeah i've gotten many offers like that and im surprised i haven't completely told them off or lost my patience with them.
  
 other day guy wanted like 600$ shipped to France for my T1's. also with tubes, they low ball and then want shipped/pp fees as well as international. many lowballers on this website, surprising since they dont realize how badly they get ripped off on some of the products they buy. like overpriced amps and dacs and whatnot.


----------



## jc9394

What surprises me is they go fleabay to buy those tubes at a higher price than we sell it for.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah. also sellers make less money there. u lose 10% per sale and paypal and ebay put fees and stuff on postings and whatnot.
  
 doesn't really balance out, i'd rather sell a pair of western electric 421A here for $400 shipped than post them on ebay, wait alot longer to sell for like 450-500 shipped, and then only make like 375$ after shipping and fees and everything. or worse,end up selling 400 on ebay and making like 350 or less.


----------



## 62ohm

dubstep girl said:


> GEC 6080WA might be around tung sol in detail, maybe a little more, its similar but warmer. it'll have nicer warm and more musicality than tung sol even, i don't think its as super detailed as 6as7g though.


 
  
 Sounds like I should have went with the GEC 6080 instead of Tung Sol 7236


----------



## jc9394

I much prefer the GEC 6080 over TS 7236 with WA22 and custom OTL.


----------



## Dillan

62ohm said:


> Sounds like I should have went with the GEC 6080 instead of Tung Sol 7236


 
  
 You be the judge!


----------



## jc9394

Should get both, tube rolling is part of tube amp ownership.


----------



## 62ohm

jc9394 said:


> Should get both, tube rolling is part of tube amp ownership.


 
  
 I fear the day when I got myself a WA6-SE would be the day I have redundant unused WA3 tubes..


----------



## jc9394

Get the WA22 instead, they use 6080.


----------



## joseph69

Is this the rectifier tube that is highly recommended for the WA6?http://www.ebay.com/itm/5AR4-GZ34-GE-Mullard-1965-Full-Wave-Rectifier-TESTED-Vacuum-Tube-/380827275464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab1310


----------



## koiloco

You would want the metal base version.  I haven't decided to try one out yet but been hearing much + feedback.


----------



## 62ohm

I thought the highly recommended rectifier for WA6 is the Sophia Princess?


----------



## koiloco

^ oh, i missed the WA6.  In that case, I am not sure.


----------



## jc9394

62ohm said:


> I thought the highly recommended rectifier for WA6 is the Sophia Princess?




Who ever told you this never tried other rectifiers. The metal based GZ34 is the best I heard.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> Who ever told you this never tried other rectifiers. The metal based GZ34 is the best I heard.


 
 Really? That was one of my least favourites.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> Really? That was one of my least favourites.




Which one you like the best on WA6? Aside from metal based GZ34, my second favorite is EML 5U4G.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> Which one you like the best on WA6? Aside from metal based GZ34, my second favorite is EML 5U4G.


 
 I like the EML 5U4G mesh plate very much. But bang for your buck, nothing beat the NOS Sylvania 5u4g. My one regret was I never got to try the 596.


----------



## jc9394

If you don't like the metal based GZ34, you probably don't like 596, they sound very similar.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> If you don't like the metal based GZ34, you probably don't like 596, they sound very similar.


 
 Well that makes me feel better....thanks!


----------



## jc9394

Just curiosity, what other tubes you tried with metal based GZ34?


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> Just curiosity, what other tubes you tried with metal based GZ34?


 
 Too many to name...but my real test amp of the GZ34 was the WA22. My favourite tubes for that were my buddy's red base RCA 5692s and Tung-Sol 7236s.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> Too many to name...but my real test amp of the GZ34 was the WA22. My favourite tubes for that were my buddy's red base RCA 5692s and Tung-Sol 7236s.


 
  
 This made me feel good for buying the Tung Sol 7236 lol. I thought I made a mistake by getting it instead of getting the GEC 6080.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> Too many to name...but my real test amp of the GZ34 was the WA22. My favourite tubes for that were my buddy's red base RCA 5692s and Tung-Sol 7236s.




I never tried red base RCA 5692. My goto combo with WA22 is metal based GZ34, TS 6SN7 BGRP / Brimar CV1988, and GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> This made me feel good for buying the Tung Sol 7236 lol. I thought I made a mistake by getting it instead of getting the GEC 6080.


 
 You definitely made the right decision! While the 6AS7 is a wonderful tube, not so much in the WA22 IMO.
  


jc9394 said:


> I never tried red base RCA 5692. My goto combo with WA22 is metal based GZ34, TS 6SN7 BGRP / Brimar CV1988, and GEC 6AS7G.


 
 You owe it to yourself. They are stupid expensive (why I borrowed a pair), but the best 6SN7 variant I've heard.
  
 But really with the cost of the Treasure CV181-Zs, these don't seem so bad (and they'll most likely last a lot longer too):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-5692-Red-base-pair-MATCHED-DATES-AND-VALUES-/121268202825?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c3c25ed49


----------



## jc9394

My Treasure CV181 only cost around $150 shipped. Yeah, the BGRP is crazy expensive but for the hours it will last I think it is worth it. I have one pair over 2,000 hours already and still using it with a custom OTL amp now.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> My Treasure CV181 only cost around $150 shipped. Yeah, the BGRP is crazy expensive but for the hours it will last I think it is worth it. I have one pair over 2,000 hours already and still using it with a custom OTL amp now.


 
 The problem with the CV181 is their reliability and their SQ was a far way off the RCA red bases.


----------



## Glam Bash

Those are definately mullards. Price seems a little high though.


----------



## joseph69

62ohm said:


> I thought the highly recommended rectifier for WA6 is the Sophia Princess?


 
 I have the S/P, I'm just curious to try something different.
  


glam bash said:


> Those are definately mullards. Price seems a little high though.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

62ohm said:


> Sounds like I should have went with the GEC 6080 instead of Tung Sol 7236 :blink:





Like jc9394

I honestly dont like the ts 7236 all that much. The gec 6080 is similar sounding but better bass and no loss in resolution.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> If you don't like the metal based GZ34, you probably don't like 596, they sound very similar.




+1 very similar sound


----------



## daverich4

jc9394 said:


> The  TS 5998 is more punchy and dynamic, the GEC are more forgiving without lost of details.  TS 5998 is better with LCD and GEC 6080/6AS7G is better with HD800.




The TS 5998's seem to put out more power than the GEC 6AS7G's. I have to turn the volume up 2or 3 clicks on my WA22 with the GEC's to match the 5998's. However, to me, the GEC's are more dynamic. When I have them turned up for the quiet parts I find myself reaching to turn down the volume as the music gets louder more often than with the 5998's.


----------



## MacedonianHero

daverich4 said:


> *The TS 5998's seem to put out more power than the GEC 6AS7G's*. I have to turn the volume up 2or 3 clicks on my WA22 with the GEC's to match the 5998's. However, to me, the GEC's are more dynamic. When I have them turned up for the quiet parts I find myself reaching to turn down the volume as the music gets louder more often than with the 5998's.


 
 That's because they do...along with the 7236s.


----------



## jc9394

macedonianhero said:


> That's because they do...along with the 7236s.


 
  
 they are, i personally prefer the lower gain tubes...more play with the pot


----------



## MacedonianHero

jc9394 said:


> they are, i personally prefer the lower gain tubes...more play with the pot


 
 I ended up using the 7236/5998s for a reason....orthos.


----------



## Frank I

Peter the WA22 using the tS power and Black glass drivers i dropped in there with a Princess 274B and it sounds excellent driving the lCD X and really nice with Danny Alpha Dog. I like the combo. i will miss it when it leaves. I could dropped t in the system upstairs but decided did not not want tho use another expensive amp in that system. I will be using review samples up there until i find something that really spikes my interest.  The GSX may spike my interest enough too a sits on its way back for my review.


----------



## MacedonianHero

frank i said:


> Peter the WA22 using the tS power and Black glass drivers i dropped in there with a Princess 274B and it sounds excellent driving the lCD X and really nice with Danny Alpha Dog. I like the combo. i will miss it when it leaves. I could dropped t in the system upstairs but decided did not not want tho use another expensive amp in that system. I will be using review samples up there until i find something that really spikes my interest.  The GSX may spike my interest enough too a sits on its way back for my review.


 
 With the WA5, I think you'll do fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I really enjoyed my time with the WA22 when I owned it!


----------



## Frank I

I know I am fine with the WA5 for the main room. Need one more for the second rooms looking forward to review units


----------



## 62ohm

Have just got myself a pair of Amperex 6DJ8 bugle boys and a pair of Philips ECC88 A-Frame, a pair of Tesla 7DJ8 is on the way. I have to say I'm quite enjoying tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Variety of sound sig is easily achievable. Now I can see why many people spends a lot on tubes, it's dangerously addictive


----------



## Frank I

The bugle boys are great tubes


----------



## jasonleehl

62ohm said:


> Have just got myself a pair of Amperex 6DJ8 bugle boys and a pair of Philips ECC88 A-Frame, a pair of Tesla 7DJ8 is on the way. I have to say I'm quite enjoying tube rolling
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm using a pair of Siemens E88CC and it is a lot better than the stock tubes. Getting hold of a pair of bugle boys tubes from a friend of mine and hoping to see how it flair against the Siemens. Tube rolling is really a tiring but rewarding activity.  
  
 How well do you like the Philips ECC88?


----------



## 62ohm

jasonleehl said:


> I'm using a pair of Siemens E88CC and it is a lot better than the stock tubes. Getting hold of a pair of bugle boys tubes from a friend of mine and hoping to see how it flair against the Siemens. Tube rolling is really a tiring but rewarding activity.
> 
> How well do you like the Philips ECC88?


 
  
 I quite like them. They sound very smooth and laid back, a good complement to the bugle boys IMO.


----------



## musicman59

Since Bricasti roots are in the old Mark Levinson pre Harman International I decide to look for a CD transport to match my Bircasti M1.
 I arrived yesterday! This thing is built like a tank. It is beautiful, works very smoothly and sounds great. Now the ML 37 transport and th eBricasti M1 will be a nice source to my WA5-LE!


----------



## jc9394

Very nice, I love the old ML stuffs.


----------



## Silent One

Great find musicman59!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

musicman59 said:


> Since Bricasti roots are in the old Mark Levinson pre Harman International I decide to look for a CD transport to match my Bircasti M1.
> I arrived yesterday! This thing is built like a tank. It is beautiful, works very smoothly and sounds great. Now the ML 37 transport and th eBricasti M1 will be a nice source to my WA5-LE!


 
  
  
 nice!!


----------



## koiloco

Oh my, you did go for the Merc.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's a hot looking car.


----------



## Frank I

It looks fantastic my friend. Let me know how it works out for you


----------



## jasonleehl

62ohm said:


> I quite like them. They sound very smooth and laid back, a good complement to the bugle boys IMO.


 
  
 Great - sounds like what I would like.
  
 I ordered a pair of the Philips ECC88 and it would be interesting to compare against my current Siemens and friend's Bugleboy.


----------



## 62ohm

Has anyone ever tried Telefunken 6DJ8? Impressions would be appreciated.


----------



## Mfalcon

I have used the 6922 in my Manley Steelhead, which is a phono amp not a head phone amp but I love them and won't use anything else. The runner up was the mallards to me but it wasn't that close.
Mike


----------



## 62ohm

My pair of Tesla 7DJ8 NOS has finally arrived, but I think I still prefer the Philips 6DJ8 A-Frame, is that weird? The most apparent difference for me is the Philips has more 'body', more 'weight' to the music. The guitar strings and vocals sounds fuller, while the Tesla sounds a bit thinner.
  
 Next stop is the Telefunken 6DJ8 I guess..


----------



## Mfalcon

I just read my last post and realized I didn't mention I was talking about the telefunken 6922. It is a 6dj8 tube type and I recommend trying it. I can't fully recommend because its amp dependent but if you don't like it pm me and I'll buy it off you.


----------



## 62ohm

mfalcon said:


> I just read my last post and realized I didn't mention I was talking about the telefunken 6922. It is a 6dj8 tube type and I recommend trying it. I can't fully recommend because its amp dependent but if you don't like it pm me and I'll buy it off you.


 
  
 The 6922 Telefunken is currently too expensive for me, I just want cheaper tubes for now. How far would they differ, the 6DJ8 and 6922?


----------



## 62ohm

There's an auction for a pair of Telefunken ECC88 that ends in around 2 hours from now. They cost $90, should I pull the trigger?


----------



## jc9394

Shameless plug and last call for these tubes.  I will ship it to my parent's house for storage this weekend.
  
 Matched 596, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $425
 Matched TS BGRP, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $425
 Matched TS BGRP, less than 10 hours - $375
 Matched TS 6F8G, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $225
 Matched TS 6F8G, less than 50 hours - $175
Matched GEC 6AS7G, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $OLD


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug and last call for these tubes.  I will ship it to my parent's house for storage this weekend.
> 
> Matched 596, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $425
> Matched TS BGRP, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $425
> ...


 
  
 Hope you get 'em sold. Also, wanted you to know I located my missing USAF-596; Pair of TS-BGRPs over the weekend. I had placed them in the safe and completely forgot they were there. I kept focusing my searches on the boxes... _we're fat & happy. _


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Hope you get 'em sold. Also, wanted you to know I located my missing USAF-596; Pair of TS-BGRPs over the weekend. I had placed them in the safe and completely forgot they were there. I kept focusing my searches on the boxes... _we're fat & happy. _


 
  
  
 Hope so, someone will enjoy them instead of sitting in the dark closet for a while.


----------



## dminches

Just lower the price $25 to $50 and they will go in a flash.


----------



## jc9394

If I have few mil in the bank, I may do that.


----------



## joseph69

Can anyone let me know if these tubes are sort after, and give a possible sound decryption on them?
 I may purchase them for the WA6. Thanks.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-6EM7-6EA7-Tube-RCA-Test-NOS-DualTriode-Black-Plates-Coin-Base-Wright-Apollo-/151235441403?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item233655b2fb


----------



## Dubstep Girl

joseph69 said:


> Can anyone let me know if these tubes are sort after, and give a possible sound decryption on them?
> I may purchase them for the WA6. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-6EM7-6EA7-Tube-RCA-Test-NOS-DualTriode-Black-Plates-Coin-Base-Wright-Apollo-/151235441403?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item233655b2fb


 
  
 close to/similar/same as the 6GL7/6EM7 offered by Jack Woo, sound is full with tons of bass, a little muddy at times, interesting and works well with some headphones, good tube with tons of gain as well, you will need the 9 to 8 pin woo audio adapters for this.


----------



## joseph69

Has anyone ever ordered tube adapters (just the adapters) from Woo Audio's web site? Or do you have to e-mail/call them to do this? Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

You have to email them, use the contact page.


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> You have to email them, use the contact page.


 
 Thank you, I've searched the entire website 4 times and couldn't find a way to order just the adapters, I thought I was missing something.
 Thanks again.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The 6EA7 / 6EM7 button / coin base are not my favoutite version but they are by the far the easiest to source nowdays. not bad though. Not a fan of their looks however. I prefer a big black base but you should find these work pretty well.


----------



## joseph69

nic rhodes said:


> The 6EA7 / 6EM7 button / coin base are not my favoutite version but they are by the far the easiest to source nowdays. not bad though. Not a fan of their looks however. I prefer a big black base but you should find these work pretty well.


 
 Thanks for your input. I hope I do like the way they sound. As for their looks, I really don't care for them either.


----------



## joseph69

Just received the Mullard 5V4G/GZ32 today, can't wait to listen tonight with the 6SN7's to hear the differences from the S/P. It actually looks like the S/P's little brother.


----------



## joseph69

Been listening to the 5V4G for about 3hrs now, and so far this is a nice sounding tube IMO, especially for the price!


----------



## jc9394

jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug and last call for these tubes.  I will ship it to my parent's house for storage this weekend.
> 
> Matched 596, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $425
> 
> ...




Last chance


----------



## Silent One

C'mon peoples, these tubes are hot! No need to wait for tax refunds, do it... do it now!


----------



## bbophead

silent one said:


> C'mon peoples, these tubes are hot! No need to wait for tax refunds, do it... do it now!


 
 Err, yeah.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## jc9394

jc9394 said:


> Shameless plug and last call for these tubes.  I will ship it to my parent's house for storage this weekend.
> 
> Matched 596, less than 1 hour (just tested when I receive from seller) - $425
> 
> ...







jc9394 said:


> Last chance




Will not see daylight for the next year or so.


----------



## lojay

Is anyone aware whether the AVVT AV32B SL will work in the Woo Audio WA5? Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

lojay said:


> Is anyone aware whether the AVVT AV32B SL will work in the Woo Audio WA5? Than


 
 Take a look;
  
 https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## jc9394

Continue to reducing my tube collection, I have two pair of Sylvania 7236 for sale.  Both are around 200 hours of use, looking for $75 a pair shipped CONUS via USPS Priority.


----------



## joseph69

I just purchased this tube for the WA6;
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151227004794?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648
  
I see 8 out of 10 were sold, has anyone on this forum purchased one, or has anyone heard this tube with the WA6, any impressions? Thanks


----------



## punit

I am still looking out to get a Mullard or equivalent GZ34 metal base at a reasonable price..the search continues


----------



## jc9394

joseph69 said:


> I just purchased this tube for the WA6;
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151227004794?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648
> 
> I see 8 out of 10 were sold, has anyone on this forum purchased one, or has anyone heard this tube with the WA6, any impressions? Thanks


 
  
  
 That is my goto rectifier when I had the WA6.  Very dynamic but lost some air compare to 274B or 5U4G.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> I am still looking out to get a Mullard or equivalent GZ34 metal base at a reasonable price..the search continues


 
 I've seen a lot of them on eBay, but there a lot of money, $800.00U.S.+/-
 If you come across anything reasonable, or a pair we could split, let me know, I'm also interested in these too.
  


jc9394 said:


> That is my goto rectifier when I had the WA6.  Very dynamic but lost some air compare to 274B or 5U4G.


 
 Good to hear, I hope I enjoy its sound signature. I own the S/P-274B, and I really enjoy it, and I also have a current production Mullard 5V4G/GZ32 that I paid $45.00U.S, and it is a very nice tube also! But I'm just trying out a little tube roling, both rectifier/driver. So far there are certain things I enjoy about both rectifier tubes I currently own while listening with the 6SN7WGT's, so I'm trying to find the one that combines both of these sound signatures, and having some fun, and getting experience at the same time, but it is costly, but worth it! Thanks for the positive reply.


----------



## tomlink

Oops, I accidentally created a new thread, but I meant to post here.
  
  
 Hi, I bought my WA22 from Dubstep Girl last year. It was the unit owned by JC9394 with the following mods.
  
 1/ BlackGate NH 220uf/160V x 6
 2/ RMG 470Ω resistor X 2
 3/ RMG 220KΩ resistors X 4
 4/ V-Cap CuTF 0.22uf/300V X 4
 5/ BlackGate NH 150uf/350 x 3
 6/ Mills MR-200 30.1k resistors x 4
 7/ Gold plated Japan made selector 8/ Mundrof Silver Gold 0.5mm &1mm cable
  
 I really love the Woo sound and the WA22/HD800 has been a blast for extended listening sessions. I just haven't been able to use is as much as I thought I would so I am going to put it up for sale on eBay. I thought I would check to see if anyone here was interested before I posted it. Looking for $1800.
  
 Thanks, Tom


----------



## Silent One

I'm guessing no one needs to ask what my go-to rec was for the WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition..._


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> I'm guessing no one needs to ask what my go-to rec was for the WooAudio _WA 6 Special Edition..._


 
 I want to know.


----------



## Silent One

_The Mighty 596..._
  
_...of course, the usual YMMV applies. _


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> _The Mighty 596..._
> 
> _...of course, the usual YMMV applies. _


 
 One day I'll try one, why not!
 Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

The best combo I think with WA6 is Mullard GZ34 with 6FD7.


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> The best combo I think with WA6 is Mullard GZ34 with 6FD7.


 
 I just tried to buy a 6FD7 from Vacuum Tubes, and they are out of stock.
 I would like to try this tube though.
  
Are you talking about the same GZ34 that I ordered today?


----------



## bbophead

Mighty 596 fan here!


----------



## jc9394

joseph69 said:


> I just tried to buy a 6FD7 from Vacuum Tubes, and they are out of stock.
> I would like to try this tube though.
> 
> Are you talking about the same GZ34 that I ordered today?




Yes, I think the metal based one us too expensive for WA6. If you are using WA22, I will say go for it. IMHO, I do not want the tubes are more expensive than the amp.


----------



## joseph69

jc9394 said:


> Yes, I think the metal based one us too expensive for WA6. If you are using WA22, I will say go for it. IMHO, I do not want the tubes are more expensive than the amp.


 
 Thats pretty much how I feel about spending that much on the metal base tube.


----------



## Snips

jc9394 said:


> Yes, I think the metal based one us too expensive for WA6. If you are using WA22, I will say go for it. IMHO, I do not want the tubes are more expensive than the amp.


 
  
 The WA6 cost almost 800 USD from my local distributor, so it's actually rather hard to find a tube that's more expensive than the amp


----------



## jc9394

snips said:


> The WA6 cost almost 800 USD from my local distributor, so it's actually rather hard to find a tube that's more expensive than the amp


 
  
  
 I meant the tubes combo the amp needed.  That is pretty easy, here is one combo.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/331101205650?lpid=82
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-VT231-NOS-TUNG-SOL-6SN7-1940s-6SN7GT-TUNGSOL-/171237949783?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27de93c157


----------



## Snips

jc9394 said:


> I meant the tubes combo the amp needed.  That is pretty easy, here is one combo.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/331101205650?lpid=82
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-VT231-NOS-TUNG-SOL-6SN7-1940s-6SN7GT-TUNGSOL-/171237949783?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27de93c157


 
  
 Ahhh. Dang, that's almost 2x the price of the amp.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I meant the tubes combo the amp needed.  That is pretty easy, here is one combo.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/331101205650?lpid=82
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-VT231-NOS-TUNG-SOL-6SN7-1940s-6SN7GT-TUNGSOL-/171237949783?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27de93c157


 





 Hey that's the tube complement I bought for my Woo - Pair VT-231 TS-BGRPs 1944. Maybe I should sell 'em...


----------



## lojay

I do not think the link you've posted is exhaustive of all the 300Bs that will work in the WA5. AVVT claimed that the VV32 will work in any 300B amp. If no one knows I will email Jack to verify, thanks.


----------



## Silent One

bbophead said:


> Mighty 596 fan here!


 






 That's some glory right there in this pix!


----------



## joseph69

snips said:


> Ahhh. Dang, that's almost 2x the price of the amp.


 
 There are also Mullard metal base GZ34's costing $800.00U.S. +/-, just for the rectifier tube, never mind the whole combo!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-WB-Mullard-GZ34-5AR4-Metal-Base-Rectifier-Tube-White-box-tv1-56H-/321319282268?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad01f265c


----------



## punit

tomlink said:


> Oops, I accidentally created a new thread, but I meant to post here.
> 
> 
> Hi, I bought my WA22 from Dubstep Girl last year. It was the unit owned by JC9394 with the following mods.
> ...


 
 The Woo website does not offer these upgrades for the WA22 ? So either these are included in the standard WA22 now or you have to email Jack specifically for these , which one is it , does anyone know ?


----------



## Silent One

The latter. Email Jack to see what you can throw in, certainly not stock. The above amp could bring you value today... _and tomorrow. _


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> The Woo website does not offer these upgrades for the WA22 ? So either these are included in the standard WA22 now or you have to email Jack specifically for these , which one is it , does anyone know ?


 
  
 Jack don't offer these upgrade anymore and his upgrade parts is not as extensive.  The WA22 is modified personally pieces by pieces by Dannie01, it took him a while to gather all the parts.  This amp actually makes me hold back upgrading to WA5/LE for a long time and I missed it so much.  If my tea tin is not emptied recently with another big purchase and still have all the tubes I used to had, I will bring her right back.


----------



## jc9394

tomlink said:


> Oops, I accidentally created a new thread, but I meant to post here.
> 
> 
> Hi, I bought my WA22 from Dubstep Girl last year. It was the unit owned by JC9394 with the following mods.
> ...


 
  
  
 Here are the pics the amp...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/47694/woo-audio-wa22/


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Here are the pics the amp...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/47694/woo-audio-wa22/


 
 Nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. What was you fav Rec +Drv+Pwr tube combo for the HD 800 on the WA 22 ?


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## jc9394

metal based mullard gz34, ts bgrp, and gec 6as7g


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## punit

The Gec +TS 6SN7 is also my fav combo for the HD 800 on the Btlhd Crack, guess the Gec + TS works with the HD 800's everywhere. On another note wanted to purchase your TS BGRP's but the GEC pair + WA22 broke the bank. Any chance of buying them next month when my wallet recovers or have you sold them already ?
  
 What difference do you find between the TS bgrp vs TS 6F8G ?


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## punit

jc9394 said:


> metal based mullard gz34, ts bgrp, and gec 6as7g


 
 The Gec +TS 6SN7 is also my fav combo for the HD 800 on the Btlhd Crack, guess the Gec + TS works with the HD 800's everywhere. On another note wanted to purchase your TS BGRP's but the GEC pair + WA22 broke the bank. Any chance of buying them next month when my wallet recovers or have you sold them already ?
  
 What difference do you find between the TS bgrp vs TS 6F8G ?


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> The Gec +TS 6SN7 is also my fav combo for the HD 800 on the Btlhd Crack, guess the Gec + TS works with the HD 800's everywhere. On another note wanted to purchase your TS BGRP's but the GEC pair + WA22 broke the bank. Any chance of buying them next month when my wallet recovers or have you sold them already ?
> 
> What difference do you find between the TS bgrp vs TS 6F8G ?


 
  
 I sold the < 1 hour pair already and still have both 6F8G and < 10 hours TSBGRP.  They sound the same to me but the 6SN7 version have darker background and less prone to noise.  They are shipped to my parent's house for storage, if you want them I can have them ship back to me.  With the 6F8G, I can sell you the adapter that is wired for WA22.  The wire are positioned away from the rectifier to prevent it pick up the noise from the rectifier.


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## punit

jc9394 said:


> I sold the < 1 hour pair already and still have both 6F8G and < 10 hours TSBGRP.  They sound the same to me but the 6SN7 version have darker background and less prone to noise.  They are shipped to my parent's house for storage, if you want them I can have them ship back to me.  With the 6F8G, I can sell you the adapter that is wired for WA22.  The wire are positioned away from the rectifier to prevent it pick up the noise from the rectifier.


 

 will decide between the 2 & send you P.M


----------



## Snips

bbophead said:


> Mighty 596 fan here!


 
  
 I have to ask. What are those two wire things running from the 596's top pins? I remember reading about it somewhere but it slipped my mind.


----------



## bbophead

snips said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > Mighty 596 fan here!
> ...


 
 From the interwebs:
  
 "The 596 rectifier was built to handle up to 9000 volts, hence the need for that special adaptor to connect the anodes at the top to the pins at the bottom. If the anodes were connected directly to the pins at the bottom, the high voltage would just arc over."
  
 Built for the US AirForce, I believe.  Rated for 60000 feet.


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## dminches

joseph69 said:


> There are also Mullard metal base GZ34's costing $800.00U.S. +/-, just for the rectifier tube, never mind the whole combo!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-WB-Mullard-GZ34-5AR4-Metal-Base-Rectifier-Tube-White-box-tv1-56H-/321319282268?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad01f265c


 
  
 Just find a plastic base with the same insides as the metal base.  Normally they have DD getters.  They are a much better value.


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## jc9394

dminches said:


> Just find a plastic base with the same insides as the metal base.  Normally they have DD getters.  They are a much better value.




Probably it is the placebo effect but to me the smoothest and slight bass extension on the metal base one that plastic base don't have.


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## joseph69

dminches said:


> Just find a plastic base with the same insides as the metal base.  Normally they have DD getters.  They are a much better value.


 
 That is exactly what I ordered, thanks.


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## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Jack don't offer these upgrade anymore and his upgrade parts is not as extensive.  The WA22 is modified personally pieces by pieces by Dannie01, it took him a while to gather all the parts.  This amp actually makes me hold back upgrading to WA5/LE for a long time and I missed it so much.  If my tea tin is not emptied recently with another big purchase and still have all the tubes I used to had,* I will bring her right back.*


 
 This could make for a very romantic story with a wonderful ending... over tea no less.


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## jc9394

Indeed it would be a very romantic ending, unfortunately I sold most of my prized single rectifiers and all three pairs of GEC 6AS7G. It will be too time consuming and pricy to get them all back.


----------



## Snips

Soooo, tried to order a GZ32 from Upscale yesterday. Woke up today to see this


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## Oskari

snips said:


> Soooo, tried to order a GZ32 from Upscale yesterday. Woke up today to see this


 
  
 That's certainly dumb.


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## Silent One

That's messed up... sorry to hear about that! I was at Kevin's home a few months back - great host! Let my send you a PM to determine where on the planet you might be, if he actually has stock but won't ship it to your location and if I'm able to step in the middle.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

joseph69 said:


> I just purchased this tube for the WA6;
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151227004794?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648
> 
> I see 8 out of 10 were sold, has anyone on this forum purchased one, or has anyone heard this tube with the WA6, any impressions? Thanks


 
  
 I had the metal base version, and it was nice and warm and tube'y sounding, but I really only liked it with my HD800 and Grados, and I had a better amp for those (ZDT) so I sold it for like $100.  The going price at the time turned out to be closer to $200. I still really like the Sophia Princess 274b for it's greater sense of space and soundstage.


----------



## joseph69

headphoneaddict said:


> I had the metal base version, and it was nice and warm and tube'y sounding, but I really only liked it with my HD800 and Grados, and I had a better amp for those (ZDT) so I sold it for like $100.  The going price at the time turned out to be closer to $200. I still really like the Sophia Princess 274b for it's greater sense of space and soundstage.


 
 This is supposed to be made right after the metal base and sound very similar. For $150.00 U.S. I figured I'll see how I like it. I also have the S/P-274B and a NEW Mullard 5V4G/GZ32 that I paid $45.00U.S. for, and it is a good sounding tube. I haven't put the S/P back in since I got the Mullard (about a week now), but tonight I'm going to put the S/P back in, I do believe I like the S/P better than the Mullard-5V4G/GZ32, it is much warmer and fuller sounding with no sibilance in the highs and a wider sound-stage/depth…but for the money, the NEW Mullard isn't bad at all! But I really can't wait to hear the 1950's Mullard-5AR4/GZ34 that I just ordered, I read a lot of good things about this tube, and people really seem too enjoy its sound, I hope I do.
 Thanks for the input.


----------



## nwavesailor

The 'Mullard' branded GZ34 / 5AR4 is actually a 'Made in Holland' Philips production tube, even though the E-Bay ad says it is UK production. The 'X' code is Dutch production with smooth plates, & double 'D' getters. It was the first version made after the metal base and side by side, the internals are identical. I own both but have not done an official A-B comparison.
  
 Great tube for WAY less $$$ than the metal base version at any rate!


----------



## joseph69

nwavesailor said:


> The 'Mullard' branded GZ34 / 5AR4 is actually a 'Made in Holland' Philips production tube, even though the E-Bay ad says it is UK production. The 'X' code is Dutch production with smooth plates, & double 'D' getters. It was the first version made after the metal base and side by side, the internals are identical. I own both but have not done an official A-B comparison.
> 
> Great tube for WAY less $$$ than the metal base version at any rate!


 
 Thank you for your knowledge on this tube, and I'm very glad to hear this, can't wait too receive it! Also what is the double D mean? And I please don't tell me breast size
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Do you own the Sophia Princess 274B? If so, have you ever done a comparison?
 Thanks


----------



## nwavesailor

Hi Joseph,
  
Doube 'D' refers to the shape and quantity (2) of the getters mounted on the top of the tube:
  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter
  
 No, I don't have a Sophia 274B rectifier for comparison.


----------



## nwavesailor

Here is a good history of the various Philips GZ34 / 5AR4:
  
http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20GZ34/GZ34.htm


----------



## joseph69

nwavesailor said:


> Hi Joseph,
> 
> Doube 'D' refers to the shape and quantity (2) of the getters mounted on the top of the tube:
> 
> ...


 
  
  


nwavesailor said:


> Here is a good history of the various Philips GZ34 / 5AR4:
> 
> http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20GZ34/GZ34.htm


 
 Thank you very much for the links you posted…going to do some reading, thanks again.


----------



## nwavesailor

Glad to do it.................
  
 I started down the tube 'rabbit hole' a few years ago and there's no going back!


----------



## joseph69

nwavesailor said:


> Glad to do it.................
> 
> I started down the tube 'rabbit hole' a few years ago and there's no going back!


 
 Yeah, its like a downward spiral!
 I was just reading quickly that the tube I ordered was made in Brussels in 1958 according to the letter/number markings.
 Thanks again, very interesting reading.


----------



## Silent One

Yes, a Rabbit Hole so deep, one could remove the dead batteries from the flashlight and drop 'em........ never ever hearing them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hit bottom.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Not sure on 5v4g, but to me, the cv593 is superior to the sophia in everything but soundstage. And maybe bass, but sophia has more one noted bass


----------



## Silent One

To me, Miss Sophia needed refining a bit. I wouldn't dare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 call the Princess fat!


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> Not sure on 5v4g, but to me, the cv593 is superior to the sophia in everything but soundstage. And maybe bass, but sophia has more one noted bass


 
 I have the Mullard 5V4G/GZ32 that I got for $45.00, I believe it is a brand new one (current production), I figured I'd try it for the price just too see if I like it, and tell you the truth its with the money, I do like it, but don't forget I'm pretty new too the tube thing and I haven't heard many rectifier tubes yet except for the S/P-274B, which so far with the 1966 Sylvania 6SN7WGT's I really enjoy! I'm waiting for the 1958 5AR4/GZ34 to arrive so I can hear if I like that one. The listing says its a Mullard made in Britain, but another Head-Fier told me he has the same one and from the markings, he says its made in Holland…then someone just directed me to a site were the tube I'm waiting for says it from 1958 and made in Brussels, right after the metal base tube. So I have three different answers, but anyway I heard it sound very good, and I'll know for myself soon.
I also looked on your thread too see if you had listed it and had any comments about it but you listed the metal base, and only mentioned the black base as being more common.


----------



## joseph69

Just did some further research on the $45.00U.S., Mullard 5V4G/GZ32;
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-2-Mullard-5V4G-equivalent-to-52KU-CV729-GZ32-5AQ4-/181305927817?nma=true&si=VBMR35vAV5XSxygcsd0C6PHXXSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 Seems the date code is from 1959, I was under the impression this tube was a NEW production.


----------



## Snips

joseph69 said:


> Just did some further research on the $45.00U.S., Mullard 5V4G/GZ32;
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-2-Mullard-5V4G-equivalent-to-52KU-CV729-GZ32-5AQ4-/181305927817?nma=true&si=VBMR35vAV5XSxygcsd0C6PHXXSg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> Seems the date code is from 1959, I was under the impression this tube was a NEW production.


 
  
 Are there any differences between the CV729 and CV593? 
  
 I was also taking a look at this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Millard-GZ32-Vintage-Valve-/171254468740?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item27df8fd084&_uhb=1
  
 It says Mullard GZ32 on the tube so I'm assuming that the "Millard" is simply a typo.


----------



## joseph69

snips said:


> Are there any differences between the CV729 and CV593?


 
 To be quite honest, your asking the wrong guy. I'm fairly new to tube amps/tubes, so I need to learn plenty more, so I take a little in at a time, but I'm learning... I was pointed in the right direction by other Head-Fiers, sorry.


----------



## Oskari

joseph69 said:


> I'm waiting for the 1958 5AR4/GZ34 to arrive so I can hear if I like that one. The listing says its a Mullard made in Britain, but another Head-Fier told me he has the same one and from the markings, he says its made in Holland…then someone just directed me to a site were the tube I'm waiting for says it from 1958 and made in Brussels, right after the metal base tube. So I have three different answers, but anyway I heard it sound very good, and I'll know for myself soon.


 
  
 You should believe nwavesailor. X = Sittard, L = Brussels.


----------



## joseph69

oskari said:


> You should believe nwavesailor. X = Sittard, L = Brussels.


 
 See, now the tube I'm waiting for has an X8 on it, and here is the exact tube I purchased on the site below, describing it is from Brussels, its the (f31 X8X);
  
 http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20GZ34/GZ34.htm


----------



## Oskari

That site is wrong.
  

http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


----------



## nwavesailor

Sorry Joseph!
  
 Yes, 'X' (AFAIK) is reported to be Sittard production and the other link with the history and great pics indeed does list in error. I think it is still a good GZ24 guide even though that production code was in error. It is NOT however, UK production at any rate even though the listing may say so or even the printing on the tube may say so. Go with the etched (or between the pins)code
  
 Oh well, the internet is only as good as the accuracy of the info in a posting.................
  
 No matter where it was made, it is still the next version of production right after the metal base.


----------



## nwavesailor

OK, so here is one section the border between the 2..............close enough for great tube production in the 40's, 50's and 60's!
  
  
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


----------



## reeltime

dubstep girl said:


> Not sure on 5v4g, but to me, the cv593 is superior to the sophia in everything but soundstage. And maybe bass, but sophia has more one noted bass


 
  
 Agreed.  In my WA6 (now long gone), the Sophia was a starting point-- but the CV593 and GZ34s were superior in nearly every single way.  The metal base GZ34 was my favorite.  I did a lot of a-b testing.  
  
 The Sophia didn't sound bad.  The others simply sounded better.  The metal GZ had the best extended bass of the lot, and handled decay better than any of the other rectifiers.


----------



## joseph69

oskari said:


> That site is wrong.
> 
> 
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
> http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf


 
 Very interesting information, thanks for bringing this too my attention, I will read this later on, thanks again!
  


nwavesailor said:


> Sorry Joseph!
> 
> Yes, 'X' (AFAIK) is reported to be Sittard production and the other link with the history and great pics indeed does list in error. I think it is still a good GZ24 guide even though that production code was in error. It is NOT however, UK production at any rate even though the listing may say so or even the printing on the tube may say so. Go with the etched (or between the pins)code
> 
> ...


 
 No problem, either way I hope I enjoy the sound of this tube, and I think this is a reasonable price for this tube, because I really don't think I would spend close to the price of the amp for a tube. From most of the replies I've gotten about this tube, most seem too enjoy it. Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

[img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/4/44/100x100px-LS-445ff6e4_2013-11-0209.45.45.jpeg[/img]
 
joseph69





 
offline
 
1,346 Posts. Joined 10/2012
 


   Here are some pic's of the WA6 with 1/4" oak side panels, after trying out the brown floor laminate, which looked very cheesy, but I did like the idea of the wood side panels on the WA6, as some amps do come with from the factory. 
 My father did the cutting and radius to match the face plate looking straight on. Due too my vision, I only came up with the idea/color to go with the brushed/flat aluminum body of the Woo. I also intend to do the transformers top cover, and possibly the face of the volumeknob, I don't want the wood to be overkill! I used Martha Stewarts (BARN RED) from Home Depot since I could not find a stain in the (RED) I was trying too achieve. Wearing a vinyl glove, I wiped the paint on with my fingers then immediately wiped it off with a cotton T-shirt, repeating this 3 times, until I achieved the color I was looking for.


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## 62ohm

So my pair of Philips 6DJ8 A-Frame have decided to manifest some audible irritating distortion that impedes them of further usage after just 6 weeks... What a pitiful short life tubes I got here.


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## nwavesailor

Sorry to hear of the demise of your 6 week (in your hands) 6DJ8's
  
 Even with mil spec rated tubes (10,000+ hours) you just never know how much life is left in any tube. I look at tubes as I look at a light bulb. There is only so much time from applying the initial electrons until it, at some point, dies. Having said that, there are tubes that run for years or rectifiers for decades w/o issues. Somewhat the luck of the draw or so it seems.
  
 I love the sound and look of the current production EML 5U4G, but will they last as long as some Philips or Mullard production tubes from the 50's or 60's? Time will tell.........................


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## Dubstep Girl

nwavesailor said:


> Sorry to hear of the demise of your 6 week (in your hands) 6DJ8's
> 
> Even with mil spec rated tubes (10,000+ hours) you just never know how much life is left in any tube. I look at tubes as I look at a light bulb. There is only so much time from applying the initial electrons until it, at some point, dies. Having said that, there are tubes that run for years or rectifiers for decades w/o issues. Somewhat the luck of the draw or so it seems.
> 
> *I love the sound and look of the current production EML 5U4G, but will they last as long as some Philips or Mullard production tubes from the 50's or 60's? Time will tell.........................*


 
  
 i doubt it, unfortnately new production tubes rarely have good lifespan. these tubes darken way too quickly and i doubt they will last anywhere near as long as a good NOS tube will.


----------



## punit

I have a WE 421A, which I had bought for the Btlhd Crack. I want to buy another one so I can use them in my WA22. Is it necessary for power tubes for the WA22 to be matched ?


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## Dubstep Girl

Preferably but no,


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## Martijn W

I am looking for an amp for a Sennheiser HD800. My current EMU 0404 in combination with the HD800 is cruel for longer periods (fatigue).
 Woo Audio does not seem to have many suppliers over here in the Netherlands.
  
 Wat would be the best way to hear/try/buy these amps over here?
  
 And in case Woo Audio is as hard to acquire over here is it seems to me at this moment......  what might be good alternative (preferablly valve) amps for the HD800?
  
 Thnx in advance!


----------



## Wapiti

joseph69 said:


> Here are some pic's of the WA6 with 1/4" oak side panels . . .


 
 Beautifully done.


----------



## joseph69

wapiti said:


> Beautifully done.


 
 Thank you! I'll be finished soon with the whole thing, I'll post the pic's when I'm totally finished.


----------



## spagetka

Hi, before this will be in FS forum, I'd like to put it here first as you all were so helpful - for sale my WA5 + AKG K1K (3years, first owner)
  
 AKG K1000 #04263 - revision done by AKG Acoustic (mar-2011)

 WA5
 • Premium parts upgrade package
 • Teflon tube sockets upgrade
 • DC cord length doubled
 • 5N RCA IC
  
 • 1 pair 5R4GY military RCA 1940s-Brent Jessee (US)-NOS matched
 • 1 pair GZ34 brown base 1960s-Brent Jessee (US)-NOS matched
 • 1 pair GZ34 black base 1960s f32 - ebay US-NOS matched-for test purpose
 • 2 pairs 5R4GY-Langrex(ebay UK)-NOS matched
  
 • 2 pairs 6SN7W military JAN 1940s-Brent Jessee (US)-NOS matched
 • 1 pair 6SN7W military JAN 1940s (ebay US)-NOS matched
 • 1 pair 6SN7 GE (stock)-NOS matched
  
 • 1 pair EML 300B Mesh-JAC-MUSIC (DE)
 • 1 pair EAT 300B-for test
  
 Duende Tube Rings (6sn7,gz34,5u4g/5r4gy,300B)


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## magiccabbage

spagetka said:


> Hi, before this will be in FS forum, I'd like to put it here first as you all were so helpful - for sale my WA5 + AKG K1K (3years, first owner)
> 
> AKG K1000 #04263 - revision done by AKG Acoustic (mar-2011)
> 
> ...


 
 PM me for price


----------



## Ultrainferno

And I'll be selling my NOS pair of the Mighty 596 next week on the FS or ebay (Highest offer). pairs are getting very rare, this might be one of the last chances to get one


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## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> And I'll be selling my NOS pair of the Mighty 596 next week on the FS or ebay (Highest offer). pairs are getting very rare, this might be one of the last chances to get one


 
  
  
 Calling SO, here is your last chance to get a backup of backup of backup...


----------



## Ultrainferno

Did you finally sell your pair John at that price?


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## jc9394

no, sent it to my parent's house for storage.


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## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> PM me for price


 
 I have observed his purchase and forum participation since the beginning - well maintained and a reputable head-fier.
  
  


jc9394 said:


> Calling SO, here is your last chance to get a backup of backup of backup...


 
 I have 3 just hangin' out inside the home safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... now considering their sell to purchase a NOS pair of Siemens F2a power output tubes for my Shindo kit. Of course, we're all smart here in this thread. I'd wait for Ultra to sell his first, as a courtesy first, strategy second. I must really like this hobby considering I already gifted 2 USAF Recs away!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Appreciate it. My funds will go to an upgrade on the GR08S


----------



## Silent One

_In the spirit of community, I say..._


----------



## joseph69

I have a question about the power supply on the new WA6.
 The specs say it has a Pseudo Dual Power Supply.
 Is this a manufactuer which makes power supplies?
 I'm asking because I was looking at an article in the New York Post and they used the word pseudo, so I right clicked on the word pseudo "look up pseudo", and the meaning it gave was, false/fake/not there/misleading… so I'm at a complete loss right now about this…can someone please explain?
 Thank you.


----------



## GrindingThud

It is not a manufacturer. It is a design type that uses separate capacitor banks for each channel, but run from the same transformer, not true two transformers but nearly as good...thus the pseudo dual name.



joseph69 said:


> I have a question about the power supply on the new WA6.
> The specs say it has a Pseudo Dual Power Supply.
> Is this a manufactuer which makes power supplies?
> I'm asking because I was looking at an article in the New York Post and they used the word pseudo, so I right clicked on the word pseudo "look up pseudo", and the meaning it gave was, false/fake/not there/misleading… so I'm at a complete loss right now about this…can someone please explain?
> Thank you.


----------



## joseph69

grindingthud said:


> It is not a manufacturer. It is a design type that uses separate capacitor banks for each channel, but run from the same transformer, not true two transformers but nearly as good...thus the pseudo dual name.


 
 Oh I see now, being they are not true dual transforms is actually one split into two channels? This is why they use the name pseudo?


----------



## GrindingThud

Yes. 


joseph69 said:


> Oh I see now, being they are not true dual transforms is actually one split into two channels? This is why they use the name pseudo?


----------



## joseph69

grindingthud said:


> Yes.


 
 Thank you for clearing this up for me, I couldn't understand why they would use the word Pseudo in their specs being that was the meaning. Thank you!


----------



## Ultrainferno

ultrainferno said:


> Don't they look beautiful


----------



## bbophead

ultrainferno said:


> ultrainferno said:
> 
> 
> > Don't they look beautiful


 
 They am!
  
 Light 'em up.


----------



## Ultrainferno

no no, they're for sale. not using them. Nos pair


----------



## Dubstep Girl

:tongue_smile: the last of the mighty 596...


----------



## jc9394

Definitely the last of 596 run, I have not see any for a long while.  I'm on the fence to sell or not to sell my last two pairs, I probably keep them since it is in storage now.


----------



## longbowbbs

I still have a pair and 2 pair of the RK60's....I also have the 5U4G adapters for both....


----------



## lojay

How do the 596s compare with the U52? Is it clearly inferior or would it serve as an interesting upgrade or option?


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Definitely the last of 596 run, I have not see any for a long while.  I'm on the fence to sell or not to sell my last two pairs, I probably keep them since it is in storage now.


 
 Down to my last three... on the fence... no indication of what I'll do... will sit for now.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> the last of the mighty 596...


 
 Oh, I've located the Pirate's Booty! Just not willing to pay my broker what she's asking.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> How do the 596s compare with the U52? Is it clearly inferior or would it serve as an interesting upgrade or option?




596 is a great tube, unique sound that takes a departure from the sound of most tubes, yet still grounded and coherent with warmth dependent on your gear. However, the metal mullard is better (and has the most similar sound to it) as well as the 422a and u52, the 596 still sounds different but i would sadly place it in a level below. Its still one of my favorites though.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> 596 is a great tube, unique sound that takes a departure from the sound of most tubes, yet still grounded and coherent with warmth dependent on your gear. However, the metal mullard is better (and has the most similar sound to it) as well as the 422a and u52, the 596 still sounds different but i would sadly place it in a level below. Its still one of my favorites though.


 
 Whats on you buying list these days?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Whats on you buying list these days?





Well i turned down the used Stratus i was planning on buying, since I don't listen as much anymore due to work. Mostly just some tube amp for later this year and well the HE-560 so maybe I can get rid of speaker amp and he-6

Been thinking of Glenn 300b too...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Well i turned down the used Stratus i was planning on buying, since *I don't listen as much anymore due to work. *Mostly just some tube amp for later this year and well the HE-560 so maybe I can get rid of speaker amp and he-6
> 
> Been thinking of Glenn 300b too...


 
  
 Same here, I feel bad either of the Glenn OTL or beta was turn on for almost a month.  I have some free time in between but I think work will pickup again in a week or two.
  
 Glenn 300B, I'm think that too to replace the OTL (I may keep it too).  5U4, C3g, and 300B will be my ideal choice.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Do u know price of 300b from glenn?

And the otl is very good, i just dont wanna buy all the expensve tubes, but glenn300b only needs a WE422A or U52 and a good 300b pair. Wa5 is other option. Except i do not want 6sn7


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Well i turned down the used Stratus i was planning on buying, since I don't listen as much anymore due to work. Mostly just some tube amp for later this year and well the HE-560 so maybe I can get rid of speaker amp and he-6
> 
> Been thinking of Glenn 300b too...


 
 oh your a dark horse! That he560 is repulsive! ew - i wont be getting that yoke. The 300b i had played around with getting but it is not guaranteed to sound top notch with HD800. If you wanna stick with planars it would be perfect id say. 
  
 I can imagine it would be a savage rig    - Glenn 300b - planars - 2 nice sensitive floor standers 
  
  
 You still plan on buying back the HD800 - i suppose you could always use the GSX with it.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> Do u know price of 300b from glenn?
> 
> And the otl is very good, i just dont wanna buy all the expensve tubes, but glenn300b only needs a WE422A or U52 and a good 300b pair. *Wa5 is other option. Except i do not want 6sn7*


 
 My custom WA5 mono blocks were spec'd with Siemens C3g drive tubes with Jack signing off on the design replacement. Something to think about.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> oh your a dark horse! That he560 is repulsive! ew - i wont be getting that yoke. The 300b i had played around with getting but it is not guaranteed to sound top notch with HD800. If you wanna stick with planars it would be perfect id say.
> 
> I can imagine it would be a savage rig    - Glenn 300b - planars - 2 nice sensitive floor standers
> 
> ...




Lol like the Katy Perry song? 

And i agree, looks wise its hideous, but if it sounds good, maybe i can get rid of aging he-6 thats hard to drive and needs bulky speaker amp. I havent completely ruled a stratus out, just dont want it right now cause i want to save money, but if a used one pops up in future months...

Hd 800 rebuy is still planned.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> My custom WA5 mono blocks were spec'd with Siemens C3g drive tubes with Jack signing off on the design replacement. Something to think about.




Glenn vs woo? :blink:


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Lol like the Katy Perry song?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 DNA is set in stone for me. I only care about HD800 these days 
  
 I will get a Glenn amp as well but have put it off for a while due to an awful lot of weddings (my god damn friends keep deciding they are gonna get married)
 Glenn has agreed to hold off on the build which was sound of him. I need to think more about what i want in the Glenn amp when i do get it. I bought tubes for
 the OTL from Xcalibur but i might change to a 300b maybe. 
  
  
 I will have the DNA after the summer if all goes well. Then will probably sell WA2/T1 and fund the Glenn amp with that. I think the Glenn amp will be a speaker/headphone amp. I wont need it to power HD800 because i will have the DNA for that. 
  
  
 Imagine these side by side ¬ 
  
  
  
 talk about turning heads!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Same here with he-6, but i wishi it was easier to drive


----------



## Ultrainferno

You better PM Glenn for prices. I love my 300B he made me; like was said: 300b + C3G + 5U4 types - can't go wrong


----------



## jc9394

ultrainferno said:


> You better PM Glenn for prices. I love my 300B he made me; like was said: 300b + C3G + 5U4 types - can't go wrong


 
  
 x2, pm glenn about the price.  i have not get the price from glenn yet as i was still undecided on 5u4 or tv diode before.


----------



## 2359glenn

jc9394 said:


> x2, pm glenn about the price.  i have not get the price from glenn yet as i was still undecided on 5u4 or tv diode before.


 

 Price depends on the transformers used


----------



## jc9394

2359glenn said:


> Price depends on the transformers used


 
  
 I think we agreed on lundahl back then but never gets to rectifiers.  I will pm you to take this offline.


----------



## 2359glenn

The Lundahl sound the best but Ultrainferno and Clayton SF love the sound
 of there amps and they have the lower cost transformers.


----------



## jc9394

Clayton, don't be surprise i will knock on your door when i visit SF later this year.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> The Lundahl sound the best but Ultrainferno and Clayton SF love the sound
> of there amps and they have the lower cost transformers.


 
 and the lundahl looks the best as well 
  
 that amp you built for dminches is a dream


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> x2, pm glenn about the price.  i have not get the price from glenn yet as i was still undecided on 5u4 or tv diode before.


 
 TV damper diodes


----------



## Dubstep Girl

422a/u52


----------



## jc9394

i'm leaning tv damper diodes, less money for tubes and focus the saving on headphones and 300b


----------



## Silent One

Yes! You could then redirect those rectifier savings and apply them toward premium 300B light bulbs.


----------



## musicman59

magiccabbage said:


> DNA is set in stone for me. I only care about HD800 these days
> 
> I will get a Glenn amp as well but have put it off for a while due to an awful lot of weddings (my god damn friends keep deciding they are gonna get married)
> Glenn has agreed to hold off on the build which was sound of him. I need to think more about what i want in the Glenn amp when i do get it. I bought tubes for
> ...


 
  
 What is the black amp??? I really like it!


----------



## jc9394

^^^ a Glenn custom build amp, that one is specifically build for planar.


----------



## Clayton SF

jc9394 said:


> Clayton, don't be surprise i will knock on your door when i visit SF later this year.


 

 Who's there? 
 You're welcome to my place anytime.


----------



## koiloco

clayton sf said:


> Who's there?
> You're welcome to my place anytime.


 

 Does that invitation apply to all?  if yes, I would seriously consider coming from San Jose to pay you a visit.


----------



## bbophead

koiloco said:


> clayton sf said:
> 
> 
> > Who's there?
> ...


 
 Let er rip.  I'll fly in from Austin.


----------



## jc9394

mini meet @ SF?


----------



## Silent One

bbophead said:


> koiloco said:
> 
> 
> > clayton sf said:
> ...


 
 A chance to hang with jc9394 and Clayton SF? I'd drive up from The City of Angels...


----------



## bpcans

Gentlemen, which Woo Audio amp is the best pairing with the Grado RS1i headphones? I've been shopping around and I've decided to buy American handmade. There's something about the look and build quality of the Woo amps that's very appealing. Thanks!


----------



## joseph69

My Woo Audio WA6 Wood Edition! (I take no credit for the fabrication, my father did it).
 I only take credit for the idea/color/installation/photos.
 Added to the side panels are the transformer cover and tube base cover with aluminum bezels around the tube sockets…done!


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Gentlemen, which Woo Audio amp is the best pairing with the Grado RS1i headphones? I've been shopping around and I've decided to buy American handmade. There's something about the look and build quality of the Woo amps that's very appealing. Thanks!


 
 I have no complaints with the WA6 paired with the RS1i's…I don't think you will either!


----------



## bbophead

Amazing transformation. Congratulations!!


----------



## joseph69

Thanks bbophead, I couldn't wait for my father to finish the pieces, and today was the day!
 Thanks again.


----------



## Frank I

Joseph The WA6 project looks nice.


----------



## joseph69

frank i said:


> Joseph The WA6 project looks nice.


 
 Thank you very much Frank! I love this amps sound/looks so much, I just had to customize it with wood/color against the beautiful aluminum chassis. Thank you again Frank, and for all your help!


----------



## Frank I

your very welcome. i am glad I was able to help you with that amplifier. More important is that you are satisfied with it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

joseph69 said:


> I have no complaints with the WA6 paired with the RS1i's…I don't think you will either!


 
  
 Yes, Grados and WA6 are a good match with RCA 6DE7 and Sophia Princess 274B.  With adapters and Sylvania VT-231 or Bad Boys (6SN7 type tubes) the amp is brighter and sounds better with HD600.


----------



## punit

Quote:


punit said:


> I have a WE 421A, which I had bought for the Btlhd Crack. I want to buy another one so I can use them in my WA22. Is it necessary for power tubes for the WA22 to be matched ?


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> Preferably but no,


 
  
 Just wanted to post an update on this. DG was right. I tried a pair of GEC 6080's in my WA22. Each bought from different vendors, I do not hear any difference between the L / R channel.


----------



## Cortazar

Hi,
 these are my first comment on this forum. I have bought for a few days Woo Audio WES for my stax sr009 and it was a huge step forward compered to my stax 727. And it looks lovely too.


----------



## Cortazar

I will be visiting a friend in Berlin in a couple of weeks and we will be hearing wes and stax transformer from Peter Rill with accuphase power amplifier. I am very curious how it compares. My friend who heard BHSE and KGSSHV said, his system with accuphase fitted stax sr009 better.


----------



## Silent One

Can't wait for you to reach "5 Posts" so you can post pix of them bad boys.


----------



## Cortazar

Nothing easier then this


----------



## Cortazar




----------



## Cortazar

And here are stax 727 an KGSSHV on exil !


----------



## 62ohm

Monstrous rig, Cortazar. Is that an Auralic Vega just bellow the WES?


----------



## Cortazar

Yes this is vega. My system is now being completely renewed. I had to sell my avantgarde audio duo mezzo and audio note neiro, because we need a room for my second son, which is on 23-th July to be borned. My first son is now 13 Months so how you can think i had not opportunity to hear the boxes really. So i decided to build a completely new system. A headphone one.


----------



## Silent One

Cortazar... looking good!


----------



## Cortazar

I have been on this forum for some time now, but i was passive so far. Till today . 
 I have contacted Piotr Ryka, who is the polish audiophile who knows different headphones very well. I knew stax, because i had some years ago stax system (4040 i think) and i liked the sound of it. It was very good for classic and jazz that i listen to.
 Well the best amplifying he heard with stax sr 009 was transistor amp with tube preamp via stax transformer from peter rill, so i ordered it and wait for it (it takes a long time for Peter to build it). I hope that woo audio will be better then this, because it would mean for me many bucks spend on good pre and amplifier. Well, we will see.


----------



## Frank I

Are you using stock tubes? There are some excellent EL 34 on the market that will make it sing. I had it here with the upgraded tubes and it made a big difference. If you can find some NOS Mullard EL 34 and some RCA 12Au7 clear tops with soem bette 5AR4 over stock . The NOS Mullards are excellent as well.


----------



## earz

<sigh>
  
 So up until a few months ago I was a solid state guy. I then purchased a WA3+ from another head-fier and...
  
 I want more - more tubey goodness. This is my first tube amp and I am sold...
  
 That screaming you hear is the sound of my credit card begging for mercy...


----------



## Cortazar

At the moment i have a stock tubes from woo audio but pavane el34 are on the way! I am very curious if the difference is 400 Euro worth.


----------



## longbowbbs

earz said:


> <sigh>
> 
> So up until a few months ago I was a solid state guy. I then purchased a WA3+ from another head-fier and...
> 
> ...


 
 As they say, Welcome to Head-Fi....Sorry a bout your wallet....


----------



## atomicbob

earz said:


> <sigh>
> 
> So up until a few months ago I was a solid state guy. I then purchased a WA3+ from another head-fier and...
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome to the club, sorry about your wallet. The WA3+ is how I started. Now I have more headphone amps than I thought I would ever justify, including a Zana Deux SE, an OTL of great distinction.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

If I bought a relatively low ohm headphone with good sensitivity and it had a lot of body with minimal amplification would you say that a wa7 (different source) would be a good pairing to get some tubeyness out of the headphone without making it too syrupy? It's a very well balanced headphone with a good transparent tone.


----------



## earz

Thanks. I already have the upgraditis. I've been into audio since I was a teenager (older brother's influence). I used to have Hafler DH-110/XL-280 that I DIYed and a pair of Vandersteen 2Ce speakers. I sold the speakers years ago, the amp/pre-amp are in storage (and for sale) and just recently got back into audio.
  
 This whole thing started with a Headstreamer external sound card and my old Grado SR-80s. That was the first taste. Shortly thereafter came the MF M1HPA and Denon AH-D2000s and Schiit Bifrost. Then came the WA3+ and the beyer T90s. Ugh. Now I want a Sonnett.
  
 This hobby really is a runaway train. The only good thing about it is the sound I get from my current rig would cost 10x as much if it was a full-sized set-up filling a room with sound. Besides, I like the fact the room is taken out of the equation as no room is acoustically perfect (my old 'steens used to face sliding glass doors).


----------



## bpcans

What's a more moderately priced power cord than the $230.00 per meter 4N purity copper cable Woo Audio offers for their amplifiers? I've got a WA6 shipping this week and I'm looking to slow down the dollar leakage. Nobody told me this hobby was so costly. Maybe I should've gotten into show dogs.


----------



## jc9394

Iron Lung Jellyfish.


----------



## Eee Pee

Monoprice has cords in one, two, three, six and ten foot lengths and they cost dollars.
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801


----------



## Frank I

bpcans said:


> What's a more moderately priced power cord than the $230.00 per meter 4N purity copper cable Woo Audio offers for their amplifiers? I've got a WA6 shipping this week and I'm looking to slow down the dollar leakage. Nobody told me this hobby was so costly. Maybe I should've gotten into show dogs.


 
 Audio advisor has some inexpensive cords from Pangea that average about 99.00 . The company than made the iron Lung Jellyfish cables is no longer in existence since the owner Paul Grzybek  passed away 3 years ago this month.


----------



## SDBiotek

Take a look at Signal cable, based in New York (signalcable.com). I have my stereo set up with Signal Cable silver reference interconnects and several of his power cables.


----------



## Eee Pee

I have a Signal Analog Two with Eichmann Bullets between my DAC and amp.  Do like.


----------



## punit

+ 1 for Signal Cable. Great Quality products at a reasonable price.
  
 Anyone know what's the amp on the right, a prototype for a new model ?


----------



## longbowbbs

bpcans said:


> Nobody told me this hobby was so costly. Maybe I should've gotten into show dogs.


 
 Been there... Costs as much but audio gear won't pee on your rug.....


----------



## bpcans

punit said:


> + 1 for Signal Cable. Great Quality products at a reasonable price.
> 
> Anyone know what's the amp on the right, a prototype for a new model ?
> 
> ...


Thanks all for the power cable references. I'll check them all out. There's a company called Mapletree electronics that sells a "clear view" braided power cable that's cost prohibitive. And there's Stefan Audio Arts that has it's Endorphin power cable that's outrageously spendy. I'm still not sure about how an overly expensive power cable can improve ones headphone listening experience. Maybe someone who uses these better cables can post a testimonial.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Thanks all for the power cable references. I'll check them all out. There's a company called Mapletree electronics that sells a "clear view" braided power cable that's cost prohibitive. And there's Stefan Audio Arts that has it's Endorphin power cable that's outrageously spendy. I'm still not sure about how an overly expensive power cable can improve ones headphone listening experience. Maybe someone who uses these better cables can post a testimonial.


 
 I don't use an expensive power cord, but if 120vAC is coming directly out of your receptacle, I would think if there is nothing between the the amp and the 120vAC coming in, you are probably not going too hear a big difference (if any) with the power cord. I believe if you have some type of line enhancer/filter, between the amp and the receptacle, maybe then the power cord can perform too it potential by receiving an enhanced/filtered/cleaner signal. I am only saying what I believe would make sense too me, I'm not saying that you will not hear a difference, I have no experience with expensive power cords, and I also use a line enhancer for all of my components with no noise issue what so ever… these are just my thoughts. I use a 14 gauge Monoprice power cord, going through a AC line enhancer with no noise issues or interference what so ever.


----------



## bpcans

joseph69, is there a specific line enhancer/filter brand that you'd recommend?


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> joseph69, is there a specific line enhancer/filter brand that you'd recommend?


 
 I can't recommend you one due to the fact that mine is close to 25yrs old, and I'm sure there are more technically advanced ones out there, but I've never felt the need too replace mine because it also functions as a 30sec power on/off delay/surge protector/AC line enhancer.  (I purchased new) and it works as well now as it did from day one, and its got countless hrs on it. I'll give you the info on it if you are interested in it, these are for sale on eBay; Adcom ACE-515 Line Enhancer. The last time I looked they were about $50.00-$100.00U.S on eBay. I know its old but...
 I'm sure someone else has one from this day and age they can recommend if your not interested.


----------



## I right I

I've tried a few brands with mixed results. The really spendy high-end units from Panamax and Furman are exceptionally good. Low end products range from ineffective to mediocre. Monster brand gets no respect but I have an entry level unit (that I bought solely for surge protection) that appreciably improves the noise floor and improves clarity at the vocal range on up (about 1000 Hz on up). The improvements may extend into the lower frequencies but it's negligible down low. The midrange products I have tried from Panamax, PS Audio, and Monster were disappointing for the price. For an audio rig I recommend an inexpensive conditioner (<$250) and basic PCs for any high quality amp. Your best cord belongs on your front end gear. A heavy duty power supply negates any power conditioning benefits. For home theater, I recommend a unit that has an isolation transformer (like the Panamax 7500-Pro. It works very well for video but it's too expensive for headphone rig unless you're feeling frisky. If you can swing it, I highly recommend Nordost PCs, especially the older Vishnu. If that's too pricey, make your own using hospital grade plugs and bulk silver plated copper wires and braid them. It's a project but the results are well worth it. I have spent a king's ransom exploring power conditioning so I hope my insight saves you from spending too much like I did.


----------



## dminches

I would recommend the Running Springs audio units. They are not current limiting and are reviewed very well.


----------



## joseph69

dminches said:


> I would recommend the Running Springs audio units. They are not current limiting and are reviewed very well.


 
 Geez, I just saw the price of these things!
He could buy a whole new headphone rig with these prices. Lol!!!


----------



## punit

Came across this while browsing ebay :
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-300B-WESTERN-ELECTRIC-TUBE-1968-NOS-SAME-CODE-Glass-Broken-For-DISPLAY/231189196358?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D21143%26meid%3D5899375084863989582%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D9373%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D181365200028&rt=nc
 Why is someone bidding $ 288 for tubes with broken glass ?


----------



## dminches

joseph69 said:


> Geez, I just saw the price of these things!
> He could buy a whole new headphone rig with these prices. Lol!!!


 
  
 The used units are much more affordable.


----------



## bpcans

sdbiotek said:


> Take a look at Signal cable, based in New York (signalcable.com). I have my stereo set up with Signal Cable silver reference interconnects and several of his power cables.


It seems I've got a New York State of mind. Grado headphones, Woo Audio amplifier, Signal Cable Silver Resolution power cord, all from NYC. I've got to find my Ramones records. Yeah that's right, LP's my friends.


----------



## bbophead

LPs?
  
 Hallehlujah!


----------



## Silent One

bbophead said:


> *LPs?*
> 
> Hallehlujah!


 
 I need more friends like that!


----------



## bpcans

silent one said:


> I need more friends like that!


Yeah man, back in the day we used to "borrow" records from each other. You could read the liner notes with all the names of everybody who played and worked on an album to the kid who delivered the pizza during late night recording sessions. The best was having all the lyrics written out and the artwork. Excuse me I've got to go to Piggly-Wiggly in my Chevy Bel-Air coupe.


----------



## Silent One

bpcans said:


> Yeah man, back in the day we used to "borrow" records from each other. You could read the liner notes with all the names of everybody who played and worked on an album to the kid who delivered the pizza during late night recording sessions. The best was having all the lyrics written out and the artwork. Excuse me I've got to go to Piggly-Wiggly in my Chevy Bel-Air coupe.


----------



## 2359glenn

bpcans said:


> Yeah man, back in the day we used to "borrow" records from each other. You could read the liner notes with all the names of everybody who played and worked on an album to the kid who delivered the pizza during late night recording sessions. The best was having all the lyrics written out and the artwork. Excuse me I've got to go to Piggly-Wiggly in my Chevy Bel-Air coupe.


 

 I still go to the Piggly-Wiggly.


----------



## bbophead

Lovin' my rekkids.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> I still go to the Piggly-Wiggly.


 
 Went to Piggly-Wiggly on my last trip to Louisiana.


----------



## Silent One

bbophead said:


> Lovin' my rekkids.


 
 Really like the way you spin down there in Texas!


----------



## karmanfamily

Hello all,
  
 My name is Raymond and I am an Audioholic...
  
 The latest vice I have been hooked on for a little while is headphones and the headphone experience enhancing amplifiers with or without the catalyst DAC.
  
 Having used a variety of combinations givinig me different highs, I think I reached the top of my budget and the absolute high possible with that...
  
 Right now I upped the ante going from Schiit (Modi DAC with 1st a Magni, 2nd a Vali, 3rd an Asgard and 4th the Valhalla) to a Woo Audio WA7...
  
 Even though the Schiit was good, the WA7 takes my office listening experience to a new high.
 The WA7 is being fed from the PC via USB, playing the rather low rez Spotify.
  
 With the Schiit there was some hiss, little hum and I accepted that it was not a clean high. I was happy, they drove the HE-400's and AKG K550's to my satisfaction, at least so I thought.
  
 Then I had a little taste of the WA7 and I was hooked.. Heroin is cookie dough compared with the high the WA7 gives me on the nice but modest headphones I use in my office.
  
 I am in my third week of using the WA7 and unlike the Schiit the high is getting better every time I use it. Right now it feels like it has loosened up and settled in completely and I hear different little details, more space around the instruments, the bass is way more tight (you can almost feel the fingers pluck the bass snares), voices are more realistic... overall it gives my ears a better high. Last, but not least, at full volume without any music playing it is DEAD quiet, like falling into the depths of space after a wonderful high of music playing.
  
 Last last and definitely not least.... the WA7 is sexy as hell with the transparent glass top showing the glowing tubes...
  
 If I didn't need the flexibility of balanced inputs and outputs I think the WA7 can dethrone the Bryston BHA-1 I use at home. The Bryston gives me a great high on all levels, but doesn't sound as 'fun' as the WA7 and the Bryston needs better cans to make it sound at its best.
 I guess I need to take the WA7 home and connect it to better hardware, stream some higher rez stuff and try better cans (Audio Technica W1000X and AKG K702 65th Anniversary)...
  
 Bryston be warned!
  
 I know this Audioholism is a strong addiction and it is hard to not want to pursue higher highs, but I think with all your help I can stay off the bank account crushing goodies out there and stay happy with the high that Woo Audio gives me...
  
 Thank you for listening.


----------



## bpcans

Hi Raymond. Glad your here. Keep coming back.


----------



## joseph69

Congratulations! I feel the same way about my WA6. Enjoy!


----------



## I right I

Welcome Ryan! I know your excitement first-hand! I just got an Eximus DAC and WA22 this week! I'm freakin out! The ride never stops my friend. I'm glad you are here!


----------



## koiloco

i right i said:


> Welcome Ryan! I know your excitement first-hand! I just got an Eximus DAC and WA22 this week! I'm freakin out! The ride never stops my friend. I'm glad you are here!


 





  WA22 + HD800 = awesome.  Try out some tubes...


----------



## punit

My current fav tube combo with the HD 800 (sorry for bad pics from my phone & yes, my equip rack is overflowing so have temporarily kept the WA22 on the floor) :
  
 USAF 596, GEC 6AS7G, TSBGRP 6F8G


----------



## daverich4

punit said:


> My current fav tube combo with the HD 800 (sorry for bad pics from my phone & yes, my equip rack is overflowing so have temporarily kept the WA22 on the floor) :
> 
> USAF 596, GEC 6AS7G, TSBGRP 6F8G




Swap out the 6F8G's for Sylvania 6SN7WGTA Brown Base's and I'm there. Plus, sometimes TS5998's for the GEC's. Or a WE422a for the 596. Crap. Can't decide.


----------



## punit

daverich4 said:


> Swap out the 6F8G's for Sylvania 6SN7WGTA Brown Base's and I'm there. Plus, sometimes TS5998's for the GEC's. Or a WE422a for the 596. Crap. Can't decide.


 

 .....& sometimes GZ34 metal Base or U52  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... yes, i know the feeling. That's why I said my "current" fav tubes...Love the tube rolling options on this amp. It's a cash sucking addiction. Every time I tell myself I have enough, STOP & then a good deal pops up that I just can't pass


----------



## I right I

I'm running Sylvania 7236s and 6F8Gs with a GZ34 Mullard. I swap in a Sophia Princess when I want the light show...


----------



## bpcans

It's here!"Come to me my precious".


----------



## bbophead

Great!!!!


----------



## bpcans

Thanks bbophead. Last night was just a teaser. I'm warming up the Woo with the Princess sitting on her throne. I also got a Stefan Audio Art Endorphin power cord off the buy/sell/trade thread from a great guy who's moniker is Flyfish 2002. He was super helpful, and fast. We shall see what kind of a difference, if any, these two high-end upgrades make.


----------



## bbophead

bpcans said:


> Thanks bbophead. Last night was just a teaser. I'm warming up the Woo with the Princess sitting on her throne. I also got a Stefan Audio Art Endorphin power cord off the buy/sell/trade thread from a great guy who's moniker is Flyfish 2002. He was super helpful, and fast. We shall see what kind of a difference, if any, these two high-end upgrades make.


 
 I would like to hear your take on the power cord.  I've never heard a difference.  Maybe if I had a bazillion dollar system ............


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I've never heard a difference with any type of cable I've ever used, including speaker wire, USB, interconnects, etc.; until I tried a Shunyata Venom 3 power cord at the recommendation of a friend.  
  
 There was a huge audible difference--particularly in the black silence of the background, and in sustained notes decaying off into silence.  More bass impact and speed, with less flabbiness, as well.  I am using 3 of them currently, with my W4S DAC2, Violectric V-200, and Woo WA2.  
  
 I would never have thought that an AC power cord could make a difference, but these certainly do.  They are also extremely well built, and the connection  at either end is very solid and tight.


----------



## bpcans

bbophead said:


> I would like to hear your take on the power cord.  I've never heard a difference.  Maybe if I had a bazillion dollar system ............


As far as a difference with the power cord I'm going to piggyback on and echo the statements of Red Jacket Mike in what he said concerning the black silence of the background. There's definitely a barely perceptible but still audible hum, kind of like a general fuzziness, and a less defined sound when using the standard three pronged power cords. Not like somebody put gauze over the drivers but more like a piece of silk, lite, but you know it's there. At least I think I'm hearing clearer highs and a tighter bass. I can't begin to tell you what wonderful sounds are coming thru the RS1's now. Of course adding a proper power amp is the key. It was difficult to balance my wants and needs. For sure I wanted a WA22 or WA5, but I also like to eat and keep the lights on.


----------



## koiloco

red jacket mike said:


> I've never heard a difference with any type of cable I've ever used, including speaker wire, USB, interconnects, etc.; until I tried a Shunyata Venom 3 power cord at the recommendation of a friend.
> 
> There was a huge audible difference--particularly in the black silence of the background, and in sustained notes decaying off into silence.  More bass impact and speed, with less flabbiness, as well.  I am using 3 of them currently, with my W4S DAC2, Violectric V-200, and Woo WA2.
> 
> I would never have thought that an AC power cord could make a difference, but these certainly do.  They are also extremely well built, and the connection  at either end is very solid and tight.


 
 Confident enough to do some blind tests?  I am just wondering.  That's all.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Be honest to yourself and ask a friend to help you setup a blind test.  I did this years back and failed miserably.


----------



## I right I

koiloco said:


> Confident enough to do some blind tests?  I am just wondering.  That's all.      Be honest to yourself and ask a friend to help you setup a blind test.  I did this years back and failed miserably.




I don't want to get too entrenched here but I have done blind testing with ten volunteers and the cheapest power cable that made a noticeable difference to all testers cost $900. For those of you who are willing to entertain such niceties, it was a Nordost Vishnu PC in a 3 meter length. 7 out of 10 testers repeatedly reported a difference (more clarity in the upper frequencies and a lower overall noise floor - these two advantages are likely to be one and the same IMO) between a silver-over-copper conductor PC versus pure copper. Variation in conductor size netted results that were negligible beyond 14ga. for all source components. Same with insulation and geometry until you get to the Vishnu which uses air as it's primary insulator (the conductor is "suspended" in air by FEP wound around it - it's worth Googling). 

The amplifier test was utterly pointless. The only statistically significant jump was from stock PCs to an aftermarket (and heavier gauge) PC. Don't buy anything more exotic than the Shunyata Venom 3 for an amp...ever. It's a total waste of resources. A high quality power supply negates the effects of PC changes. Lower end amps might benefit from a nice PC but why wouldn't you just buy a better amp with the cash you are spending on a PC?

For a source component though, that depends on how deep your pockets go. I like Nordost because they are beautiful and I've proven they work well. You may have to experiment to find your own Valhalla. (Nordost fans will get the pun). I can say this for those of you with a healthy budget: a $2K source with a $900 PC has more clarity at the top end (maybe the whole spectrum - I can't be positive) than a $3K source with the stock PC. If you have a more budget-oriented source THAT YOU REALLY LIKE, try out a higher end PC before you upgrade the component. It may stave off upgrade-itis for a while and your system can grow into the PC over time.


----------



## I right I

One more thing: if anyone wants to borrow my Vishnu PC, PM me and I will be happy to loan it to you.


----------



## magiccabbage

i right i said:


> a $2K source with a $900 PC has more clarity at the top end (maybe the whole spectrum - I can't be positive) than a $3K source with the stock PC. If you have a more budget-oriented source THAT YOU REALLY LIKE, try out a higher end PC before you upgrade the component. It may stave off upgrade-itis for a while and your system can grow into the PC over time.


 
 Could you explain why this is the case? I have a basic enough laptop and was thinking of getting an Audio-gd master 7, what would the differences be if instead i had a really good P.C and why?
 I was under the illusion that once you connect the DAC via USB then the DAC does the rest of the work and so the laptop specs don't come into account. Is there a thread that explains this in dept? 
  
 Maybe a P.M would be more appropriate.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

koiloco said:


> Confident enough to do some blind tests?  I am just wondering.  That's all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have done that, with a friend randomly switching between the Shunyatas and the stock power cable.  (We used the V200 stock cable; the Woo amp does not come with one.)  For music we used the end of one track and the beginning of the next track on Lindsey Buckingham's 'Out of the Cradle' album, in order to get the space between tracks as part of the test.  We did the test 7 times.
  
 I was never able to tell the difference with the DAC power cables being switched, but with the V200 and the WA2, I picked the correct cable every time; 7 out of 7.  As I said before, it was most noticeable during the silence between the tracks.  Perhaps my stock cable was defective, but it was very obvious each time.
  
 I've done the same thing with interconnects and USB cables, but have never been able to distinguish any audible differences.


----------



## I right I

magiccabbage said:


> Could you explain why this is the case? I have a basic enough laptop and was thinking of getting an Audio-gd master 7, what would the differences be if instead i had a really good P.C and why?
> I was under the illusion that once you connect the DAC via USB then the DAC does the rest of the work and so the laptop specs don't come into account. Is there a thread that explains this in dept?
> 
> Maybe a P.M would be more appropriate.


I meant PC to mean "Power Cord". Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## magiccabbage

i right i said:


> I meant PC to mean "Power Cord". Sorry for the confusion.


 
 Oh cool.... i was seating there for a minute.


----------



## koiloco

red jacket mike said:


> I have done that, with a friend randomly switching between the Shunyatas and the stock power cable.  (We used the V200 stock cable; the Woo amp does not come with one.)  For music we used the end of one track and the beginning of the next track on Lindsey Buckingham's 'Out of the Cradle' album, in order to get the space between tracks as part of the test.  We did the test 7 times.
> 
> I was never able to tell the difference with the DAC power cables being switched, but with the V200 and the WA2, I picked the correct cable every time; 7 out of 7.  As I said before, it was most noticeable during the silence between the tracks.  Perhaps my stock cable was defective, but it was very obvious each time.
> 
> I've done the same thing with interconnects and USB cables, but have never been able to distinguish any audible differences.


 
 Wow, that's really amazing.  I like that you're honest about what you can and can't hear.  Thank you for sharing your experience.  In my case, it could be that the stock PC I had was pretty good quality therefore I couldn't hear diff in blind test.


----------



## jc9394

red jacket mike said:


> I have done that, with a friend randomly switching between the Shunyatas and the stock power cable.  (We used the V200 stock cable; the Woo amp does not come with one.)  For music we used the end of one track and the beginning of the next track on Lindsey Buckingham's 'Out of the Cradle' album, in order to get the space between tracks as part of the test.  We did the test 7 times.
> 
> I was never able to tell the difference with the DAC power cables being switched, but with the V200 and the WA2, I picked the correct cable every time; 7 out of 7.  As I said before, it was most noticeable during the silence between the tracks.  Perhaps my stock cable was defective, but it was very obvious each time.
> 
> I've done the same thing with interconnects and USB cables, but have never been able to distinguish any audible differences.


 
  
  
 You definitely have better hearing than me, I tried both Ironlung Jellyfish and Shunyata Venom-HC, I can't tell a difference from Powerplant to WA22.  Good thing Music Direct have great return policy, got a full refund of Shunyata Venom-HC.
  
 However I can tell the difference between wall outlet and Powerplant.


----------



## koiloco

jc9394 said:


> You definitely have better hearing than me, I tried both Ironlung Jellyfish and Shunyata Venom-HC, I can't tell a difference from Powerplant to WA22.  Good thing Music Direct have great return policy, got a full refund of Shunyata Venom-HC.
> 
> However I can tell the difference between wall outlet and Powerplant.


 
 You are not alone.  I am there with you and glad we saved ourselves quite a bit of money.


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

I don't think I have any better hearing than average; as I mentioned above, it may have been that the stock power cord was defective in some way.  It's possible that some cheaper replacement cords would have done the trick.  But the lack of of noise in the background when the Shunyatas were put in the chain was so obvious anyone would have heard it.


----------



## Khragon

Finally.. joined the club:


----------



## jc9394

Congrats, that was my baby?


----------



## Khragon

jc9394 said:


> Congrats, that was my baby?




Sorry it's not. The deal didn't fall through. This is a stock wa22.


----------



## jc9394

That was too bad, but you have a brand new one. I bet it has the new car smell.


----------



## Khragon

Hehe it's a used one, but I still felt that new car feeling. The yulong da8 is new.


----------



## joseph69

Congratulations very nice!!! Enjoy.


----------



## koiloco

khragon said:


> Finally.. joined the club:


 
 Gratz!


----------



## Silent One

khragon said:


> Finally.. joined the club:


 
 Rack 'em!


----------



## I right I

silent one said:


> Rack 'em!



But don't break em!


----------



## bpcans

khragon said:


> Finally.. joined the club:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Way to go my friend!


----------



## Khragon

silent one said:


> Rack 'em!


 

 Thought about doing that.. but don't have much space.. so monitor stand will do for now.
  
 Thanks to DG for her advice, I got my self a decent collection of tubes to try out now:
  
 Rectifiers:
 EML 5U4GM
 GZ34 Metal base
 Mullard CV593     <- current setup
  
 Powers:
 Sylvania 7236
 Tung-Sol 5998     <- current setup
 GEC CV2984
  
 Drivers:
 STC 6SN7GT (Brimar CV1988)
 Tung-Sol 6SN7GT
 Schuan CV-181Z Treasures <- current setup
  
 I mainly listen to vocal (60/40 female/male).. enjoyed the CV593 very much with WA6SE, so that the one I tried first, will move on to the rest over time.  Taking my time now to roll thru these tubes.. and paying the bill


----------



## punit

khragon said:


> I mainly listen to vocal (60/40 female/male).. enjoyed the CV593 very much with WA6SE, so that the one I tried first, will move on to the rest over time.  Taking my time now to roll thru these tubes.. and paying the bill


 
 Sometime in the near future please do post a comparison with WA6 SE


----------



## jc9394

khragon said:


> Thought about doing that.. but don't have much space.. so monitor stand will do for now.
> 
> Thanks to DG for her advice, I got my self a decent collection of tubes to try out now:
> 
> ...


 
 Listen to female vocal, you have to try this set up.
  
 GZ34 Metal base
 GEC CV2984
 Brimar CV1988


----------



## Khragon

Thanks Jc, I'll give that combination a try.
  
 As for WA6-SE, I didn't have a chance to listen for it too long, my unit has popping sound on the left channel and I returned it.  Was going to get a replacement, but a used WA22 showed up, and I got it instead.  With my limited time (both WA22 and WA6SE), I found the WA22 sound stage to be wider for sure, but WA6SE with 6DF7 power/driver tubes that I used sounded to have a bit more control/power with LCD2 compared to the WA22 setup I got now.  Maybe I should try the Sylvania 7236 power with LCD2 to see how that goes.  Over all I would say the are very close to one another (with the right tubes).  Aesthetic wise, I prefer the look of single block WA22 then separte bodies of the WA6SE.. I always have to hold down the amp to plug/unplug headphone where the WA22 is so heavy it's just stay there.


----------



## OldSkool

khragon said:


> Thanks Jc, I'll give that combination a try.
> 
> As for WA6-SE, I didn't have a chance to listen for it too long, my unit has popping sound on the left channel and I returned it.  Was going to get a replacement, but a used WA22 showed up, and I got it instead.  With my limited time (both WA22 and WA6SE), I found the WA22 sound stage to be wider for sure, but WA6SE with 6DF7 power/driver tubes that I used sounded to have a bit more control/power with LCD2 compared to the WA22 setup I got now.  Maybe I should try the Sylvania 7236 power with LCD2 to see how that goes.  Over all I would say the are very close to one another (with the right tubes).  Aesthetic wise, I prefer the look of single block WA22 then separte bodies of the WA6SE.. I always have to hold down the amp to plug/unplug headphone where the WA22 is so heavy it's just stay there.


 

 KMSV, you have the WA22 and LCD-2 set-up that I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on. It sounds like you haven't found the perfect tubes yet, but are you happy with the combo overall?


----------



## jc9394

oldskool said:


> KMSV, you have the *WA22 and LCD-2* set-up that I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on. It sounds like you haven't found the perfect tubes yet, but are you happy with the combo overall?


 
  
 Power: TS5998, TS7236
 Driver: TS 6SN7/6F8G BGRP, Brimar CV1988
 Rectifier: Metal based GZ34, 596, EML 5U4G


----------



## OldSkool

Oops...I should have introduced myself before I started asking questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have been active on the Lyr tube-rolling thread for a couple years. I plan to sell my Lyr and keep my HE-500, as well as adding another can. I prefer darker headphones and want to go balanced. My budget right now is $3500 and I'm eyeing the WA22/LCD-2 combo. I have never had the chance to listen to a LCD-2, or a HD800 for that matter. I do know that the T1 is too bright, so I scratched the Beyer off the list.
  
 Any advice for a Woo newbie?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## jc9394

I had the WA22, LCD-2, and HD800 combo for couple years.  That is my go to combo for LCD-2, for HD800 see my other post earlier.


----------



## OldSkool

jc9394 said:


> I had the WA22, LCD-2, and HD800 combo for couple years.  That is my go to combo for LCD-2, for HD800 see my other post earlier.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## punit

oldskool said:


> I have never had the chance to listen to a LCD-2, or a HD800 for that matter. I do know that the T1 is too bright, so I scratched the Beyer off the list.


 
 I do not consider the T1 & HD 800 bright at all, between the 2 I would say the HD 800 is "brighter" IMHO


----------



## OldSkool

punit said:


> I do not consider the T1 & HD 800 bright at all, between the 2 I would say the HD 800 is "brighter" IMHO


 

 Thanks. That's what worries me about the HD800. I wouldn't want anything much brighter than my HE500, which led me to believe the darker LCD-2 would be more to my liking.
  
 Maybe I should step back and reconsider the WA2/T1 pairing.  I do have a nice stash of 6922 tubes and Mullard CV2493s would tame the upper edge a bit, right?


----------



## punit

Yes, WA2 +T1 should be a good pairing (based on my experience with BottleHead Crack which is an OTL like WA2, haven't tried WA2). If you like warm, an all Mullard pairing (6080 + CV2493) will work fine. The beauty of WA22 (for me) is that there are so many tube rolling combinations possible that I can make them brighter or warmer according to the HP's used.


----------



## OldSkool

Thank you, punit.


----------



## magiccabbage

punit said:


> I do not consider the T1 & HD 800 bright at all, between the 2 I would say the HD 800 is "brighter" IMHO


 
 It depends on the the track you are listening to. Sometimes HD800 is bright where the T1 is fine and sometimes the T1 is bright where the HD800 is fine.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> It depends on the the track you are listening to. Sometimes HD800 is bright where the T1 and sometimes the T1 is bright where the HD800 is fine.


 
 Paddy nailed it. Absolutely right on. They can both be bright but it really recording dependent.


----------



## magiccabbage

edit


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> Paddy nailed it. Absolutely right on. They can both be bright but it really recording dependent.


 
 +1.  I personally confirmed this recently on my WA22.


----------



## karmanfamily

Ok, we are 9 days further and the WA7 is really loosening up and sounding better every day.
 This week I added a pair of Shure SE535's to the line up and downloaded some 24/96 and 24/192 FLACs of Smashing Pumpkins and Lenny Kravitz.
 BIG MISTAKE!
 How the hell can I go back to Spotify after that?
 The DAC inside the WA7 is better than I thought, the detail is simply stunning.
 It helps that it is a tube amp, even though it is real detailed (I heard things I have never heard before in songs I have heard 100's of times since the 90's) it still sounds natural...

 If you are looking for a DAC/Headphone amp combo and your budget is about $900, put the WA7 on the top of your list.

 I have heard many great systems, but that little black cube with its glass top is a top contender.


----------



## Khragon

Wait until you tried a good DSD download.  I downloaded the MJ album in DSD and was impressed.
  
  
 Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Listen to female vocal, you have to try this set up.
> 
> GZ34 Metal base
> GEC CV2984
> Brimar CV1988


 

  
 Thanks for the suggestion, enjoying the config for a couple days now.  With the exception of the low again GEC tube, sometime I have to turn the volume up a bit more than usual, the vocals in this setup sounded pretty sweet and clear at the same time.


----------



## Silent One

khragon said:


> Wait until you tried a good DSD download.  I downloaded the MJ album in DSD and was impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great! You mean to tell us that the Woo already earned a Blue Star?!


----------



## Khragon

Lol yeah took me a while to see that in the pic.


----------



## jc9394

khragon said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, enjoying the config for a couple days now.  With the exception of the low again GEC tube, sometime I have to turn the volume up a bit more than usual, the vocals in this setup sounded pretty sweet and clear at the same time.




For deeper bass, you need the GEC 6AS7G. It is quality not quantity, the WA22 is bass light with HD800.


----------



## Silent One

khragon said:


> Lol yeah took me a while to see that in the pic.


----------



## joshuachew

Has anyone tried the WA5/SE with planar magnetic headphones? How does it sound? And is it able to drive the HE6 since it can drive the K1000?


----------



## musicman59

joshuachew said:


> Has anyone tried the WA5/SE with planar magnetic headphones? How does it sound? And is it able to drive the HE6 since it can drive the K1000?


 
 What is the WA5/SE? I just know of the WA5 and WA5-LE.


----------



## joshuachew

musicman59 said:


> What is the WA5/SE? I just know of the WA5 and WA5-LE.


 
 Sorry, yes the LE.


----------



## musicman59

joshuachew said:


> Sorry, yes the LE.


 
  
 I own the LE because when I bought it the HE-6 was not even out yet (it was a prototype only back then). The LE does not have an output for the K1000 so the output is not as high as the WA5.
  
 In my experience the LE can drive the HE-6 ok depending on the driver tubes but still not to the level the WA5 can do it out of the K1000 output. I have driven the HE-6 with my EML 300B, USF 596 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base/Chrome tops out of the High Impedance output fine but if I would have the chance to make the purchase again I clearly would go with the WA5.


----------



## kazsud

musicman59 said:


> I own the LE because when I bought it the HE-6 was not even out yet (it was a prototype only back then). The LE does not have an output for the K1000 so the output is not as high as the WA5.
> 
> In my experience the LE can drive the HE-6 ok depending on the driver tubes but still not to the level the WA5 can do it out of the K1000 output. I have driven the HE-6 with my EML 300B, USF 596 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base/Chrome tops out of the High Impedance output fine but if I would have the chance to make the purchase again I clearly would go with the WA5.



 


The HE6 to Wa5 is the best thing I ever heard next to the hd800 to Wa234.


----------



## Frank I

joshuachew said:


> Has anyone tried the WA5/SE with planar magnetic headphones? How does it sound? And is it able to drive the HE6 since it can drive the K1000?


 
 The WA5 is what I use ti drive the HE6 and it does it easily and with terrific musicality.


----------



## lojay

I agree. HE6 + WA5 (with the right choice of tubes) leaves very little to be desired. I enjoy it more than my SR009 + SRM007TA setup. It is less detailed than the 009 but far more tactile and musical.


----------



## joshuachew

musicman59 said:


> I own the LE because when I bought it the HE-6 was not even out yet (it was a prototype only back then). The LE does not have an output for the K1000 so the output is not as high as the WA5.
> 
> In my experience the LE can drive the HE-6 ok depending on the driver tubes but still not to the level the WA5 can do it out of the K1000 output. I have driven the HE-6 with my EML 300B, USF 596 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base/Chrome tops out of the High Impedance output fine but if I would have the chance to make the purchase again I clearly would go with the WA5.







kazsud said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > I own the LE because when I bought it the HE-6 was not even out yet (it was a prototype only back then). The LE does not have an output for the K1000 so the output is not as high as the WA5.
> ...







frank i said:


> The WA5 is what I use ti drive the HE6 and it does it easily and with terrific musicality.







lojay said:


> I agree. HE6 + WA5 (with the right choice of tubes) leaves very little to be desired. I enjoy it more than my SR009 + SRM007TA setup. It is less detailed than the 009 but far more tactile and musical.



Thanks to all that replied. I will have to save up for the WA5 now I guess. I am glad it pairs well. I was almost certain of buying it till I read Mike from headfonia saying that orthos and the HE6 especially does not pair well with the HE6. Glad that it goes. See you guys in a few months with my loot. Haha.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> For deeper bass, you need the GEC 6AS7G. It is quality not quantity, the WA22 is bass light with HD800.


 
  
 +1
  
 those GEC 6080 have pretty nice bass too, but not as extended. tung sol 5998 isn't bad either imo. 
  
 rectifier must be mighty 596 for depth but lightness, gz34 for a little more punch,  cossor GZ37 for quantity, or western 422A for extension and finesse.
  
 overall though the wa22 is still kinda lean on the bass since it will focus more on the mids and soundstage.


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> those GEC 6080 have pretty nice bass too, but not as extended. tung sol 5998 isn't bad either imo.


 
 Have read some nice things about the RCA 6AS7G bass & was thinking of adding it to my collection. Any experience with these.
  
 BTW am  amazed by the RCA 54UG, wasn't expecting so much quality for the price.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Have read some nice things about the RCA 6AS7G bass & was thinking of adding it to my collection. Any experience with these.
> 
> BTW am  amazed by the RCA 54UG, wasn't expecting so much quality for the price.


 
  
 yeah alot of people  like them, even prefer over tung sol 5998 due to the fact that is a warm sounding tube that still remains fairly neutral.
  
 i however, find it mediocre, it lacks transparency and theres always a sort of grain/cheap feeling in the high, though they are not fatiguing of course, it still bothers me enough to not like the tube a whole lot. not as good as tung sol 5998 basically.
  
 its an entry level tube i think, but it is interesting being slightly warmer than alot of other tubes. GEC 6080 is another option, being similar in sound but much much better sounding.
  
 RCA 5U4G smooth is pretty nice, it surprised me as well, bargain tube, sounded quite similar to RK60 actually. well rounded sound with no major flaws. personally i think its a good tube for people to consider since it doesn't cost much. though for a little more money u can always get the GZ32.


----------



## 62ohm

Hi guys, I know this might be a stupid question but bear with me. I know the WA7 is a dac/amp combo, but if we're talking only about the amp section, which one do you think is better, the WA3/WA6 or the WA7? The WA7 does cost more than WA3/WA6, but I'm not entirely convinced that it is a better AMP than the WA3/WA6. Is that weird? Any thoughts would be appreciated, cheers.


----------



## joseph69

Well I've never heard the WA7/3, but I have the WA6 and absolutely love it!
 The WA7 is supposed to be a really nice amp/dac combo. I never really heard/read much about the WA3, so I can't comment. In the end I think it would come down too sound preference.


----------



## kazsud

62ohm said:


> [COLOR=141823]Hi guys, I know this might be a stupid question but bear with me. I know the WA7 is a dac/amp combo, but if we're talking only about the amp section, which one do you think is better, the WA3/WA6 or the WA7? The WA7 does cost more than WA3/WA6, but I'm not entirely convinced that it is a better AMP than the WA3/WA6. Is that weird? Any thoughts would be appreciated, cheers.[/COLOR]




The Wa2 would be the better one for your hd800s. The new Wa7 power supply is sopposed to improve the Wa7 though I've never heard it with it.


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> The Wa2 would be the better one for your hd800s. The new Wa7 power supply is sopposed to improve the Wa7 though I've never heard it with it.




X2


----------



## I right I

There are a few things to consider beyond what has already been mentioned. First, the price of tubes should be considered. A WA6 with upgraded tubes sounds much better than the WA7 with the stock tubes for the same money. Second, the WA7 does not require cables between the DAC and amp. Figure on a couple hundred bucks for appropriate IC cables (oh yeah, figure in the cost of a DAC, too!). So $ for $, the WA7 is a bargain. The WA6, though, has the benefit of an output transformer. Some love the distortion characteristics of an OT (I do!!!) and a number of high end audio companies use OTs in their SS amps to add tubey sweetness! McIntosh is the most notorious for this practice. I traded up to the WA22 from the WA6 and the OT in the WA6 compares very favorably to the (2) OTs in the WA22. For my tastes (and for my HD800s), I want an output transformer-coupled amp every time. I am not knocking OTLs in any way. I'm just pointing out that you need to be aware of the stark difference in design and sound characteristics. It less a matter of better or worse. It's a matter of preference.


----------



## bbophead

Nicely stated!


----------



## jc9394

One thing you forget to mention OT does not have the bass authority of the OTL amp when driving the HD800.


----------



## I right I

jc9394 said:


> One thing you forget to mention OT does not have the bass authority of the OTL amp when driving the HD800.



Good point. The top end can be rolled off with certain amps/tubes, too. I would point out though that HD800s aren't the poster child for authoritative bass reproduction so those that favor HD800s tend to be indifferent to that sort of shortfall. It also bears stating that tube selection can add quite a bit of bass energy to the WA6. Your comment casts into sharper relief my earlier point that the trade offs between the WA7 and the WA6 goes beyond a simple better/worse summation. If we are going to negate the DAC costs in our comparison (which would be the case if we consider the WA2), the WA6-SE comes into play. That amp has more output power at 300 ohms than any other Woo amp. The bass response of that amp is well documented to be quite ample with most tube choices. So not all OT amps lack bass extension and power. You just need a big one!


----------



## amham

i right i said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > One thing you forget to mention OT does not have the bass authority of the OTL amp when driving the HD800.
> ...


 
 I thought I'd add to this thread...just received my HD800 after several years of procrastinating given the general sense of a "bright and bass shy" HP.  My amps are Woo WA6SE and WA22 with various tubes along with a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and Grace 903.  Well, I'm quite surprised and pleased.  I'm very susceptible to raspy/sibilant phones (Grado 325 chief among them) and I find that HD800 to be detailed and very airy but not objectionably bright.  The bass response is more than adequate and very natural, no lack of low end for me.  In fact, after 3 days of serious listening I'm thinking these are my favorite phones (compared to Audeze LCD-X and Hifiman 500).  Now, can I optimize with my equipment?  Yes, prefer the HD800 with the Grace as opposed to the Benchmark with either Woo.  I can further refine with the right mix of tubes but at the moment quite pleased with the sound staging and openness of the 800.  I contribute my satisfaction to the Woo's, the 800 is a keeper for me.  Note:  the deal for the 800 included the Senn balanced cable "free".  Waiting for the backorder to determine if that has any effect with the WA22.


----------



## jc9394

As much as I like the WA22 maxxed and HD800, they are the best combo.  However it does held me back years before I decided to upgrade.


----------



## I right I

jc9394 said:


> As much as I like the WA22 maxxed and HD800, they are the best combo.  However it does held me back years before I decided to upgrade.



+1. The WA22 with the right tubes is the best amp for HD800s. Prepare to spend up to $1k on tubes though! Still, I prefer a tubed-up WA22 to the WA5 for the same coin.


----------



## 62ohm

Thanks for the replies guys, so I guess the WA7 does not necessarily sound better than the WA6 in terms of amplification.


----------



## kazsud

amham said:


> I thought I'd add to this thread...just received my HD800 after several years of procrastinating given the general sense of a "bright and bass shy" HP.  My amps are Woo WA6SE and WA22 with various tubes along with a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and Grace 903.  Well, I'm quite surprised and pleased.  I'm very susceptible to raspy/sibilant phones (Grado 325 chief among them) and I find that HD800 to be detailed and very airy but not objectionably bright.  The bass response is more than adequate and very natural, no lack of low end for me.  In fact, after 3 days of serious listening I'm thinking these are my favorite phones (compared to Audeze LCD-X and Hifiman 500).  Now, can I optimize with my equipment?  Yes, prefer the HD800 with the Grace as opposed to the Benchmark with either Woo.  I can further refine with the right mix of tubes but at the moment quite pleased with the sound staging and openness of the 800.  I contribute my satisfaction to the Woo's, the 800 is a keeper for me.  Note:  the deal for the 800 included the Senn balanced cable "free".  Waiting for the backorder to determine if that has any effect with the WA22.




Balanced out of the Wa22 is better than single ended.


----------



## punit

kazsud said:


> Balanced out of the Wa22 is better than single ended.


 

 The input matters more in WA22 than the output i.e. If the input is balanced there is not much difference between Balcd & Single ended output. But if input is on RCA  then the amp does not sound as good whether 1/4 th  or XLR output is used.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634551/woo-wa22-balanced-vs-unbalanced-input#post_8838857


----------



## I right I

punit said:


> The input matters more in WA22 than the output i.e. If the input is balanced there is not much difference between Balcd & Single ended output. But if input is on RCA  then the amp does not sound as good whether 1/4 th  or XLR output is used.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/634551/woo-wa22-balanced-vs-unbalanced-input#post_8838857



+1


----------



## Rusty143

Hello,

Do any of you have experience running the WA3 with Sennheiser HD600s? If so, how would you describe the sound? Anyone have experience comparing the Schiit amps to the WA3? Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## karmanfamily

Today I added a pair of Sennheiser HD700's to the line up and the WA7/HD700 combo is pure audio bliss!
  
 I can listen to these for hours without noticing that I have headphones on...
  
 What neutral and balanced sound these 2 make...


----------



## 62ohm

rusty143 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do any of you have experience running the WA3 with Sennheiser HD600s? If so, how would you describe the sound? Anyone have experience comparing the Schiit amps to the WA3? Any advice would be appreciated.


 
  
 I haven't try the HD600 with WA3, but I have tried the HD650 with WA3 and while it might not be bad, I don't like it at all. It was too dark and dull, the WA6 suits HD650 much better IMO.


----------



## Hun7er

Hi everybody,
  
 I own a WOO WA5 and I want to try another driver and rectifier tubes.
 Currently I use Sylvania 6SN7W, 5R4GY langrex and EML300b. I search for more fullness, airiness, cleaner sound but not rolled off high. There is so many tubes that I didn't know which to search ?
  
 Thank you for the help.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Who made the Langrex tube?


----------



## Frank I

hun7er said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I own a WOO WA5 and I want to try another driver and rectifier tubes.
> Currently I use Sylvania 6SN7W, 5R4GY langrex and EML300b. I search for more fullness, airiness, cleaner sound but not rolled off high. There is so many tubes that I didn't know which to search ?
> ...


 
 If you can locate some 596 tubes that would give you what your looking for but you need some adapters too.


----------



## Frank I

nic rhodes said:


> Who made the Langrex tube?


 
 Langrex is a dealer in the UK. They cary lot of mullard NOS- could be a Brimar he referring in the rectifier


----------



## Problem

For those interested, I have one USAF 596 for sale with very minimal usage.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

frank i said:


> Lan grex is a dealer in the UK. They cary lot of mullard NOS- could be a Brimar he referring in the rectifier


 

 I know who Langrex are, I have dealt with them for over 25 years! but we need to know who made this valve they have badged.


----------



## fhuang

hun7er said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I own a WOO WA5 and I want to try another driver and rectifier tubes.
> Currently I use Sylvania 6SN7W, 5R4GY langrex and EML300b. I search for more fullness, airiness, cleaner sound but not rolled off high. There is so many tubes that I didn't know which to search ?
> ...


 
  
  
 sylvania 6sn7 and eml300b both should sound airy and full. i don't have the 5r4gy you mentioned but my guess is you work on the recitifier tubes. try either eml 5u4g or psvane 274b.


----------



## musicman59

hun7er said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I own a WOO WA5 and I want to try another driver and rectifier tubes.
> Currently I use Sylvania 6SN7W, 5R4GY langrex and EML300b. I search for more fullness, airiness, cleaner sound but not rolled off high. There is so many tubes that I didn't know which to search ?
> ...


 
  
 If you can not find a pair of 596 then try a pair of Brimar 5R4GY. I got mine from Upscale Audio sometime ago. For the drivers try the Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base/Chrome Top. My favorite drivers are actually TungSol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates with Glenn's adapters.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> If you can not find a pair of 596 then try a pair of Brimar 5R4GY. I got mine from Upscale Audio sometime ago. For the drivers try the Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base/Chrome Top. My favorite drivers are actually TungSol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates with Glenn's adapters.


 
  
 ultrainferno have a pair very nice 596.


----------



## I right I

I just got some Woo adapters. Much better than the others I tried: one pair broke at a solder and the other ones didn't fit!

Also, the Sylvania 6F8Gs are underrated.


----------



## Hun7er

Where can I get these adapter ?


----------



## joseph69

hun7er said:


> Where can I get these adapter ?


 
 From Woo, but you must e-mail them.


----------



## icc900

Helpful...Thanks for sharing.


----------



## joseph69

icc900 said:


> Helpful...Thanks for sharing.


 
 Your welcome.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i right i said:


> I just got some Woo adapters. Much better than the others I tried: one pair broke at a solder and the other ones didn't fit!
> 
> Also, the Sylvania 6F8Gs are underrated.


 
  
 +1 on this.
  
 The Sylvania 6F8G / VT-99 are very good.... smooth and very musical! I actually preferred them to the TS 6F8G for most purposes, but I had a pair that didn't play well with my amp.


----------



## I right I

I'm using National Union 6F8G VT-99s. The 6SN7s that came with the amp were much noisier and over boosted parts of the frequency range. The 6F8Gs may have less gain (somebody fact check me on that please). I found that I had to turn my volume up a bit to get the same apparent listening level. The net effect of the NUs was a more pleasant and balanced presentation, especially in the mid to upper frequencies. I've picked up on subtle changes in tone and details in the background of my music that were not resolved properly with the 6SN7s. I can describe it as SS amp-like micro detail but with the layering and depth of tubes. It does not have a ton of bloom. To be honest, some of the depth is likely attributable to my other tubes (WE 422A and TS 5998s). I haven't rolled enough combos to be positive. By a wide margin this is the best tube combo I have heard in the WA22.


----------



## Hun7er

WHat about the 5692 or 7N7 ?


----------



## musicman59

i right i said:


> I'm using National Union 6F8G VT-99s. The 6SN7s that came with the amp were much noisier and over boosted parts of the frequency range. The 6F8Gs may have less gain (somebody fact check me on that please). I found that I had to turn my volume up a bit to get the same apparent listening level. The net effect of the NUs was a more pleasant and balanced presentation, especially in the mid to upper frequencies. I've picked up on subtle changes in tone and details in the background of my music that were not resolved properly with the 6SN7s. I can describe it as SS amp-like micro detail but with the layering and depth of tubes. It does not have a ton of bloom. To be honest, some of the depth is likely attributable to my other tubes (WE 422A and TS 5998s). I haven't rolled enough combos to be positive. By a wide margin this is the best tube combo I have heard in the WA22.


 
 I have not experience lower gain with the 6F8G in my WA5-LE. Yes, I also have some Sylvania and NU too and are also nice but I personally prefer the TS. IMO they provide more body to the sound but the other are close and much cheaper.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> +1 on this.
> 
> The Sylvania 6F8G / VT-99 are very good.... smooth and very musical! I actually preferred them to the TS 6F8G for most purposes, but I had a pair that didn't play well with my amp.


 
 That pair working fine in the WA5. I like the Sylvania but still prefer the TS slightly. Both are excellent sounding tubes.


----------



## valentino22

Hi All,
  
 Does anyone have experience ordering amps from US to Europe? I'm really afraid of paying 30% extra because of the customs (I live in Ireland). I have the Beyerdynamic T1 and looking for a nice amp, but seemingly all the good amps which matches the T1 (WA2, Bottlehead Crack, Decware CSP-3) can only be found in USA.
  
 Are there any alternative to these amps which are a good match with T1? Or is there any way to order any of the mentioned amps within the EU?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Pudu

It kind of depends upon the sound signature you're after. Some folks like the Violectric V200 with the T1. It comes out of Germany, but it's SS, not tube.


----------



## Glam Bash

I heard the WA2 with the beyer T1's at Axpona this weekend. It was my first time hearing an OTL and I was impressed. The sound was open, effortless, and dynamic. If I had more high impedance phones I would by one in a minute . Jack was using the 6080 output tubes. Sometimes couriers can help with the customs thing?


----------



## valentino22

I'm looking for a darker sound signature. I would like to buy a tube amp, and my best candidates are WA2, Bottlehead Crack or Decware CSP-3. Are there any good tube amps available in EU which fits the T1 well?
  
 Quote:


pudu said:


> It kind of depends upon the sound signature you're after. Some folks like the Violectric V200 with the T1. It comes out of Germany, but it's SS, not tube.


----------



## Pudu

No idea, sorry. I'm pretty sure you have a compatriot on here who has the WA2, did you search the WA2 & T1 threads?

But I wouldn't characterize the WA2 as dark. Lush, but not dark. Haven't heard the other two.


----------



## magiccabbage

pudu said:


> No idea, sorry. I'm pretty sure you have a compatriot on here who has the WA2, did you search the WA2 & T1 threads?
> 
> But I wouldn't characterize the WA2 as dark. Lush, but not dark. Haven't heard the other two.


 
 Sure I live up the road from him as it happens - which is crazy. I think i am the only person in Ireland with a WA2. 
  
 I have a few different tube types as well - valentino22 - you can call down to my house for a listen anytime


----------



## Pudu

That's the bunny!


----------



## magiccabbage

pudu said:


> That's the bunny!


----------



## Pudu

That is pretty funny that you actually happen to live so close.

I wonder ...

Ahem, gee I've always wanted to test drive a Bugatti Veyron, but uh don't want to pay the 30% import tax. Anyone have any advice?


----------



## valentino22

I feel soo lucky now. I would have never thought that there is anyone here in Ireland who's interested in head-fi  I checked a couple of music shops and the most expensive headphones are around 300 Euros, the Beats. I felt like no one has the desire to experience better quality, hence there is no market for it.
  
 And it's ironic because the Sennheiser factory is here in Ireland, all the Sennheiser headphones are produced here, I suppose even the HD800s too. But you can only buy the low-end types in the shops.
  
 So thanks for the invitation, I will gladly meet you somtime.
  


magiccabbage said:


> Sure I live up the road from him as it happens - which is crazy. I think i am the only person in Ireland with a WA2.
> 
> I have a few different tube types as well - valentino22 - you can call down to my house for a listen anytime


----------



## I right I

I don't have a Veyron but if you live in the Midwest, you can drive my McLaren F1...


----------



## Rusty143

I am considering getting a WA3 to drive my Sen 600s. I've read the amp is very "tubey". Does it lack detail or sound veiled? I am looking for an amp that will help the music come alive. Was consider the schiit Valhalla but it seems to get mixed reviews.


----------



## I right I

rusty143 said:


> I am considering getting a WA3 to drive my Sen 600s. I've read the amp is very "tubey". Does it lack detail or sound veiled? I am looking for an amp that will help the music come alive. Was consider the schiit Valhalla but it seems to get mixed reviews.


 That is very tube-dependent.


----------



## 62ohm

rusty143 said:


> I am considering getting a WA3 to drive my Sen 600s. I've read the amp is very "tubey". Does it lack detail or sound veiled? I am looking for an amp that will help the music come alive. Was consider the schiit Valhalla but it seems to get mixed reviews.


 
  
 If you are looking for detail extraction, the WA3 is not for you. It sounds very tubey and lush, but it also sound veiled compared to WA6. But if you seek to make your setup more "musical", this is the amp for you.


----------



## Rusty143

Thanks for the advice! Is the wa3 too "thick" sounding? What would the sonic difference be between the Wa3 and 6?


----------



## 62ohm

rusty143 said:


> Thanks for the advice! Is the wa3 too "thick" sounding? What would the sonic difference be between the Wa3 and 6?


 
  
 To me the WA3 does sound thicker than WA6. It sounds very tubey while the WA6 sounds more like SS compared to WA3. Don't get me wrong, WA6 still sounds lush, but because the WA3 sounds very dark and maybe a bit veiled, WA6 may sound analytical in comparison. It depends on what you're going after, if you seek darker, overly-lush sounding amp, go for the WA3. If you seek a lush sounding amp with a pretty good detail retrieval, go for the WA6 IMO.
  
 Keep in mind that the WA3 is OTL and thus your cans option would be very limited, unlike the WA6 where it (IMO) virtually sounds good with almost any cans it is used with.


----------



## Pudu

i right i said:


> I don't have a Veyron but if you live in the Midwest, you can drive my McLaren F1...




:eek: Yowza, that's quite the offer. Alas I'm a world away from the midwest at the moment. 



rusty143 said:


> I am considering getting a WA3 to drive my Sen 600s. I've read the amp is very "tubey". Does it lack detail or sound veiled? I am looking for an amp that will help the music come alive. Was consider the schiit Valhalla but it seems to get mixed reviews.




For what it's worth, based on a one night tryst with the Valhalla, I think it's a great little amp for the money. Haven't heard it with the 600s though.


----------



## I right I

pudu said:


> :eek: Yowza, that's quite the offer. Alas I'm a world away from the midwest at the moment.


 that's too bad. It's my best car on Forza...


----------



## Pudu

See, now I'm glad I'm nowhere near Chicago. :mad:




Fine. I will just have to make do putzing around in my Huaouaiowauooeauyra.


----------



## bpcans

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm presently using all Sophia Electric tubes in my WA6, the Princess 274b and two 6SN7's.The soundstage is more expansive and I'm hearing greater detail, more little things, in my recordings, but the overall presentation is less crisp and sounds more syrupy. I notice this mostly with CD's from the 80's and 90's, with exception of small combo jazz, and not on more recent recordings. This tube combination doesn't have more than thirty hours with my WA6 on them. Will the sound change with more time and are there other power tubes that I should investigate, or could it be that I'm simply beginning to get into tube rolling?


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm presently using all Sophia Electric tubes in my WA6, the Princess 274b and two 6SN7's.The soundstage is more expansive and I'm hearing greater detail, more little things, in my recordings, but the overall presentation is less crisp and sounds more syrupy. I notice this mostly with CD's from the 80's and 90's, with exception of small combo jazz, and not on more recent recordings. This tube combination doesn't have more than thirty hours with my WA6 on them. Will the sound change with more time and are there other power tubes that I should investigate, or could it be that I'm simply beginning to get into tube rolling?


 
 As you may know, I have the S/P-274B and Sylvania 6SN7-WGTA's which I do love, but I did notice that the sound does warm up and is not as crisp as when they had less time on them.
 I also have the Phillips Miniwatt GZ34 which I use with RCA-6FD7's, and the sound is more crisp/detailed/tighter, not "syrupy" at all. Also the current production Mullard GZ32 ($45.00) which I use with RCA-6EW7's which are also crisp/detailed, but slightly thinner in overall  sound…but for the price its well worth it IMO/IME.


----------



## bpcans

Thanks Joseph. I'll check out those other tubes.


----------



## joseph69

Your welcome.


----------



## reeltime

bpcans said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm presently using all Sophia Electric tubes in my WA6, the Princess 274b and two 6SN7's.The soundstage is more expansive and I'm hearing greater detail, more little things, in my recordings, but the overall presentation is less crisp and sounds more syrupy. I notice this mostly with CD's from the 80's and 90's, with exception of small combo jazz, and not on more recent recordings. This tube combination doesn't have more than thirty hours with my WA6 on them. Will the sound change with more time and are there other power tubes that I should investigate, or could it be that I'm simply beginning to get into tube rolling?


 
  
 Which headphone are you driving?  
  
 I owned the WA6 for a year or so.  The Princess does a nice job (and a heck of a light show), but a metal base GZ-34 gave me the best sound of anything I put in it.  They aren't cheap.  I think the metal base version of the GZ-34 ended in 1955 or 1956, then they moved to a plastic base, which still sounded better than the Princess to my ears.  
  
 I'd probably play with rolling the rectifier before rolling the drivers.  I had a bunch of different drivers, 6DE7, 6SN7 and a few others.  The differences were minor in terms of quality.  The 6SN7 provided more power than the 6DE7.  The 6GT7 (hope I've got that right) added some grit and grain which I didn't like.
  
 Have fun, it's a nice amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

alot of the alternate 6XX7 tubes you can use seem to sound too aggressive and grainy for my tastes.


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> alot of the alternate 6XX7 tubes you can use seem to sound too aggressive and grainy for my tastes.


 
 Alternatives too which, the S/P 6SN7's?


----------



## bpcans

reeltime said:


> Which headphone are you driving?
> 
> I owned the WA6 for a year or so.  The Princess does a nice job (and a heck of a light show), but a metal base GZ-34 gave me the best sound of anything I put in it.  They aren't cheap.  I think the metal base version of the GZ-34 ended in 1955 or 1956, then they moved to a plastic base, which still sounded better than the Princess to my ears.
> 
> ...


I'm listening to the Grado RS1i's which I just love. What should I expect the price of a metal base GZ-34 to be? Can I run a 596 in the WA6 as a rectifier? I hope I got that tube number right. Still learning the names and numbers of the different tubes.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> I'm listening to the Grado RS1i's which I just love. What should I expect the price of a metal base GZ-34 to be? Can I run a 596 in the WA6 as a rectifier? I hope I got that tube number right. Still learning the names and numbers of the different tubes.


 
 Prices can be about $3-700.00, you've got too keep an eye out to find a less expensive one. You can run a 596, but you need an adapter.


----------



## bpcans

Thanks Joseph. 3-7 hundred bones? Wholly Hanna! I'll definitely keep a spy eye out for those tubes. Is there a difference in sound between the S/P and the 596?


----------



## reeltime

bpcans said:


> Thanks Joseph. 3-7 hundred bones? Wholly Hanna! I'll definitely keep a spy eye out for those tubes. Is there a difference in sound between the S/P and the 596?


 
  
 The 596 has outstanding clarity.  But it lacks bass depth and extension.  So if you have a bass heavy headphone, the 596 is a great match.  But it's less so for a headphone like the HD800.  
  
 Don't be afraid to go for a plastic base GZ-34.  It's very close to the metal base in sound, and you can score a NOS from '57 or '58 for a little over $100.


----------



## longbowbbs

reeltime said:


> bpcans said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Joseph. 3-7 hundred bones? Wholly Hanna! I'll definitely keep a spy eye out for those tubes. Is there a difference in sound between the S/P and the 596?
> ...


 
 The 596 may be that way with Woo amps, but not with others. It has great Bass with the HD800's on My Cary and with the Decware I had. Best Rectifier I have found so far.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

reeltime said:


> The 596 has outstanding clarity.  But it lacks bass depth and extension.  So if you have a bass heavy headphone, the 596 is a great match.  But it's less so for a headphone like the HD800.
> 
> Don't be afraid to go for a plastic base GZ-34.  It's very close to the metal base in sound, and you can score a NOS from '57 or '58 for a little over $100.


 
  
 i find it to have some of the best bass extension out there actually, just the bass is kinda pushed back, but its there. its a bass light tube, but it definitely goes quite deep.
  
 596 works great with planars as well as denon/fostex and other bassy headphones.
  
 it works well with hd 800, but needs 6GL7 to bring the bass up a bit (this is a very muddy bassy tube thats refined with the 596 and ends up being an interesting pairing). otherwise, i find the 596 bright on some of the woo amps due to its forward nature.
  
  
  
 the metal bass is a huge step up over the plastic imo, the sound is similar but the metal is less grainy and seems to be less compressed sounding. liquid like dynamics and a cool mint-like sound signature.


----------



## reeltime

dubstep girl said:


> i find it to have some of the best bass extension out there actually, just the bass is kinda pushed back, but its there. its a bass light tube, but it definitely goes quite deep.
> 
> 596 works great with planars as well as denon/fostex and other bassy headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hear what you're saying-- I suppose I should qualify-- It's a great tube, but I liked the EML 5U4G better with the HD800. I have a matched pair I'm considering selling at some point.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Thanks Joseph. 3-7 hundred bones? Wholly Hanna! I'll definitely keep a spy eye out for those tubes. Is there a difference in sound between the S/P and the 596?


 
 I picked up the first production NOS 1950's black base Mullard GZ34 after the metal base was discontinued, and it sounds great!!!
 I would never spend the $ some of these tubes are going for…I can almost buy my amp again for some of these prices!
 You will definitely enjoy this tube, and especially for its price!!! 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151227004794?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

joseph69 said:


> I picked up the first production NOS 1950's black base Mullard GZ34 after the metal base was discontinued, and it sounds great!!!
> I would never spend the $ some of these tubes are going for…I can almost buy my amp again for some of these prices!
> You will definitely enjoy this tube, and especially for its price!!!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151227004794?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


 
  
 A few years ago I sold a Mullard GZ34 metal base for $150.  Mistake?  nah...
  
 I liked the Sophia Princess 274b more.


----------



## joseph69

headphoneaddict said:


> A few years ago I sold a Mullard GZ34 metal base for $150.  Mistake?  nah...
> 
> I liked the Sophia Princess 274b more.


 
 I also like my S/P 274B, but not more, I like them both for what they are... different sounding in their own ways, and both have their strong points, so I enjoy them both.
 From what I've read, a few years ago I don't think the metal base was as expensive then as it is now. And maybe its just that there getting harder to come buy these days being there so old, I don't know, but I do know I'm not paying that kind of money for one.


----------



## joseph69

Take a look at the prices for the metal base GZ34's;
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmetal+base+gz34&_nkw=metal+base+gz34&_sacat=0&_from=R40


----------



## Silent One

With the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_, Miss Sophia showed promise but didn't always deliver. Next, the EML 5U4G brought forth details and dynamics previously hidden in Miss Sophia's dressing room. However, when the USAF-596 rectifier showed up for audition, it was over, Johnny! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Admittedly it's both circuit dependent; system synergy. But the _Mighty 596 _paired with the much storied TS-BGRP VT-231s was the best tube complement my Woo seen pumping the balanced D7000!


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> With the _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_, Miss Sophia showed promise but didn't always deliver. Next, the EML 5U4G brought forth details and dynamics previously hidden in Miss Sophia's dressing room. However, when the USAF-596 rectifier showed up for audition, it was over, Johnny!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've never heard one, but I've heard it is called "the mighty 596". I don't even see any for sale!


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> I've never heard one, but I've heard it is called "the mighty 596". I don't even see any for sale!


 





 Though, I can often be seen not heard, I'll speak up and confess: I'm the one gave it the moniker originally and hyped the glass. Due to scarcity and gouging we now have a few members trying to run me out of town! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (It won't work)
  
 I still have a few in storage but not for sale. Perhaps a member will step forward and sale or loan you one of these recs.


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> Though, I can often be seen not heard, I'll speak up and confess: I'm the one gave it the moniker originally and hyped the glass. Due to scarcity and gouging we now have a few members trying to run me out of town!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 what would one of those tubes go for anyway?


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> what would one of those tubes go for anyway?


 
 I haven't kept up with the Market on those, sorry. Maybe you could check the last round of sales for them on ebay...actually a few members active in this thread would know and will respond in the morning.


----------



## punit

joseph69 said:


> what would one of those tubes go for anyway?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/716330/fs-usaf-596


----------



## musicman59

punit said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/716330/fs-usaf-596


 
 Wow! That is crazy. I remember I bought my pairs for $40 each tube when we started with them.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Wow! That is crazy. I remember I bought my pairs for $40 each tube when we started with them.




My first pair was $40.


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> I haven't kept up with the Market on those, sorry. Maybe you could check the last round of sales for them on ebay...actually a few members active in this thread would know and will respond in the morning.


 
 Thank you.
  


punit said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/716330/fs-usaf-596


 
 Thanks for the link. I thought these were priced like some of the Metal Base GZ34's. By me this is a fair price too pay for a tube these days, being this is about what I paid for most of my rectifier tubes. Thanks again.


----------



## bpcans

punit said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/716330/fs-usaf-596


I'd need an adapter for my WA6 wouldn't I?


----------



## punit

bpcans said:


> I'd need an adapter for my WA6 wouldn't I?


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-596-to-5U4G-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-02-/290973109145?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf594b99


----------



## bpcans

punit said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-596-to-5U4G-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-02-/290973109145?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf594b99


Thanks for the link punit. $23.00 is cheaper than what I would expect a dedicated Woo Audio 596 adapter to be.


----------



## joseph69

I've got a 596/adapter on the way!
 Can't wait!


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> I've got a 596/adapter on the way!
> Can't wait!


Where did you get it sir, if I may ask?


----------



## Problem

When I bought the 596 about 9 months back, it was hovering around $110-$150 each.


joseph69 said:


> I've got a 596/adapter on the way!
> Can't wait!


 
 Congrats on getting the mighty 596! When I got mine with my WA6-SE, I rarely swapped back to the Sophia 274B/Mullard GZ34 as it had became my reference


----------



## bpcans

problem said:


> When I bought the 596 about 9 months back, it was hovering around $110-$150 each.
> Congrats on getting the mighty 596! When I got mine with my WA6-SE, I rarely swapped back to the Sophia 274B/Mullard GZ34 as it had became my reference


Nice to know gentlemen.Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Where did you get it sir, if I may ask?


 
 Frank I sent me a PM and sold me one and the Glenn adapter. Someone posted a link for one on ebay, I think it was Punit. I figured you were going to buy it.


----------



## joseph69

problem said:


> When I bought the 596 about 9 months back, it was hovering around $110-$150 each.
> Congrats on getting the mighty 596! When I got mine with my WA6-SE, I rarely swapped back to the Sophia 274B/Mullard GZ34 as it had became my reference


 
 Thank you. I have both tubes you mentioned above also. Can't wait too hear the 596…everybody says pretty much the same thing as you say from what I've read.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> My first pair was $40.


 
 I remember romancing the glass at $8 and falling in love at $13. Even when the glass hit $30 I never worried... and then


----------



## longbowbbs

A couple of months ago one went for $300 on ebay....Generally they are running between $150 and $200 each these days.


----------



## Silent One

After giving a couple away as gifts, I think I'll hand out Girl Scout Cookies next time.


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> After giving a couple away as gifts, I think I'll hand out Girl Scout Cookies next time.


 
 Thin Mints please....


----------



## Pudu

Samoas über alles!


----------



## Silent One

I might have to ask Currawong for a SPAM filter!


----------



## I right I

Respect!


----------



## 188479

silent one said:


> I remember romancing the glass at $8 and falling in love at $13. Even when the glass hit $30 I never worried... and then :eek:



+1. I have two, paid $40 each for them!


----------



## Feedbacker

Just pressed 'go' on a black WA6SE, so I guess that means I'm shortly to be a member of this club. A tube novice, so this is is an exciting adventure, and I must not think about my wallet for a while!
  
 Went for the EML 5U4G and 6FD7 options, which I hope is going to give me a good start. Not sure I'm really into tube rolling, so I think I want a stable set up that will last.
  
 Anyway, now for the wait...


----------



## jc9394

feedbacker said:


> Just pressed 'go' on a black WA6SE, so I guess that means I'm shortly to be a member of this club. A tube novice, so this is is an exciting adventure, and I must not think about my wallet for a while!
> 
> Went for the EML 5U4G and 6FD7 options, which I hope is going to give me a good start. *Not sure I'm really into tube rolling, so I think I want a stable set up that will last.*
> 
> Anyway, now for the wait...


 
  
 This is what we all said...


----------



## Feedbacker

jc9394 said:


> This is what we all said...


 
 I know!


----------



## joseph69

feedbacker said:


> Just pressed 'go' on a black WA6SE, so I guess that means I'm shortly to be a member of this club. A tube novice, so this is is an exciting adventure, and I must not think about my wallet for a while!
> 
> Went for the EML 5U4G and 6FD7 options, which I hope is going to give me a good start. Not sure I'm really into tube rolling, so I think I want a stable set up that will last.
> 
> Anyway, now for the wait...


 
 Congratulations!
  


jc9394 said:


> This is what we all said...


 
 Your not kidding!!! I'm currently waiting for a 596 to arrive, after saying to myself... no more tubes!!!


----------



## Feedbacker

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Your not kidding!!! I'm currently waiting for a 596 to arrive, after saying to myself... no more tubes!!!


 
  
 Thanks! I think I need to write to my bank to warn them...


----------



## bonesnv

feedbacker said:


> Just pressed 'go' on a black WA6SE, so I guess that means I'm shortly to be a member of this club. A tube novice, so this is is an exciting adventure, and I must not think about my wallet for a while!
> 
> Went for the EML 5U4G and 6FD7 options, which I hope is going to give me a good start. Not sure I'm really into tube rolling, so I think I want a stable set up that will last.
> 
> Anyway, now for the wait...


 
  
 I did the same thing about a week ago.  I went stock with the tubes until I get a feel for the sounds then will replace based on how they sound with the different types of music, plus the headphones.  Pulled the plug on the black WA6-SE to go with the black AD's that should show around the same time.
  
 My wallet left me a note last week, was just a picture of a middle finger inside.  He hasn't been seen or heard from since.


----------



## Feedbacker

bonesnv said:


> My wallet left me a note last week, was just a picture of a middle finger inside.  He hasn't been seen or heard from since.


 
  
 Ha ha! Let the wallet have the cat. You can keep the amp!


----------



## bonesnv

feedbacker said:


> Ha ha! Let the wallet have the cat. You can keep the amp!


 

 Well I will start testing it out next Wednesday, it shipped this morning.  Only downside is, the headphones meant for it ain't here yet and haven't shipped.  Using the P7s just won't be worthy of it, won't stop me though.


----------



## Themorganlett85

I'm not sure if this topic has been touched on in this thread but I was wondering if anyone of you out there have had the Schiit Valhalla or heard it and what do you think compared with the WA6SE. I'm trying to decide on which one I want to get but I can't really seem to find a straight answer anywhere. Thank you.


----------



## Faithless

WA6-SE far way better amp.
 I think...


----------



## joseph69

themorganlett85 said:


> I'm not sure if this topic has been touched on in this thread but I was wondering if anyone of you out there have had the Schiit Valhalla or heard it and what do you think compared with the WA6SE. I'm trying to decide on which one I want to get but I can't really seem to find a straight answer anywhere. Thank you.


 
 I've never heard the Valhalla or the WA6/SE…but I do have the WA6, and absolutely love it!!!


----------



## Glam Bash

themorganlett85 said:


> I'm not sure if this topic has been touched on in this thread but I was wondering if anyone of you out there have had the Schiit Valhalla or heard it and what do you think compared with the WA6SE. I'm trying to decide on which one I want to get but I can't really seem to find a straight answer anywhere. Thank you.


 
 These are 2 completely different animals. The valhalla is an entry level OTL suitable for high impedance phones. The WA6SE has hi and low impedance output taps. I believe you can now roll some tubes on the valhalla. Whereas the output/rectifier tube combinations on the Woo are endless and have pretty dramatic changes on the sound.  Even comparing the WA6SE to the Woo OTL's would be comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## Themorganlett85

glam bash said:


> These are 2 completely different animals. The valhalla is an entry level OTL suitable for high impedance phones. The WA6SE has hi and low impedance output taps. I believe you can now roll some tubes on the valhalla. Whereas the output/rectifier tube combinations on the Woo are endless and have pretty dramatic changes on the sound.  Even comparing the WA6SE to the Woo OTL's would be comparing apples to oranges.


 

 +1 thank you guys for your help


----------



## Rusty143

What about the WA3 compared to the Valhalla?


----------



## noobandroid

I'm thinking of getting wa7 to replace my magni + dacport lx, but nobody wants to buy away my stuff, sad. even my um miracle nobody wants, sad


----------



## Feedbacker

bonesnv said:


> Well I will start testing it out next Wednesday, it shipped this morning.  Only downside is, the headphones meant for it ain't here yet and haven't shipped.  Using the P7s just won't be worthy of it, won't stop me though.


 
 Enjoy your amplifier!


----------



## kljash

Ordered a Wa2 to go with my t1's today. Very excited!


----------



## joseph69

kljash said:


> Ordered a Wa2 to go with my t1's today. Very excited!


 
 Thats a really nice looking amplifier!
 I have the WA6 and was looking the other day at the WA2, and had too stop checking it out before I bought it myself! If I wasn't already set up nicely with the WA6 as far as the tubes and a little custom wood work, I may have sold it to buy the WA2…but as of right now, I can't bring myself too do it, plus I am enjoying it very much! Who knows, maybe the WA6 will become my desktop amp some day, and I'll also get the WA2 for my main rig. Anyway, congratulations on your new amp, enjoy it and let us know how you like it! Thanks.


----------



## bbophead

WA2 is an OTL.  Better for high impedance cans, no?


----------



## noobandroid

any woo suitable for q701? my friend told me to get wa7 but I'm unsure


----------



## joseph69

bbophead said:


> WA2 is an OTL.  Better for high impedance cans, no?


 
 Yes, from what everybody says.


----------



## Pudu

kljash said:


> Ordered a Wa2 to go with my t1's today. Very excited!




You should be.

Wonderful pairing. Congrats.


----------



## joseph69

My mistake, I was actually reffering to the WA6-S/E for myself, not the WA-2, but it is a really good looking amp. If I ever purchased a high impedance headphone I would definitely try the WA-2.


----------



## kljash

Thanks everyone. Just counting the days now.


----------



## -kent-

Ordered mine yesterday. Jack said he will ship it by next week. Can't even concentrate at work until the WA6 are in my hands lol


----------



## joseph69

-kent- said:


> Ordered mine yesterday. Jack said he will ship it by next week. Can't even concentrate at work until the WA6 are in my hands lol


 
 Congratulations on the WA6! I've had mine for about 5-6 months now and just love everything about it.


----------



## bbophead

-kent- said:


> Ordered mine yesterday. Jack said he will ship it by next week. Can't even concentrate at work until the WA6 are in my hands lol


 
 Two years now with my WA6.  Still very happy.


----------



## -kent-

Thank you  @ joseph69
  
 The WA6 will be my first tube powered amp. It took me years to figure out that the sound I was so long searching was infact the beloved tube sound. The shipment will take some weeks, since I live in germany. I hope the packaging is good. 
  
 And I ordered the Sophia Princess with them!


----------



## joseph69

-kent- said:


> Thank you  @ joseph69
> 
> The WA6 will be my first tube powered amp. It took me years to figure out that the sound I was so long searching was infact the beloved tube sound. The shipment will take some weeks, since I live in germany. I hope the packaging is good.
> 
> And I ordered the Sophia Princess with them!


 
 Nice tube (S/P) you'll really like it!
 The packaging is excellent, as is the sound/build/aesthetics. It is 2nd to none!
 When you receive it, please give us your impressions. Congratulations again!!!


----------



## -kent-

Thanks 
  
 I've fallen in love with them the second I saw pictures on head-fi! I wonder - how hot do tubes (Sophia Princess for example) actually get?
 They look like I could burn a toast over them


----------



## bonesnv

Now I just need the headphones meant for it so I can really enjoy the fully depth of it; and I will be ordering the Sophia and some other tubes this evening.  Stock tubes in the photo.
  
 Even the P7s got a very minor boost in sound clarity but I wasn't expecting a drastic change with them compared to using the AD2, fairly similar sound makeup between the two amps with the P7s.  I have to keep the volume even on low around the 8-9 o clock range.


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv, nice looking rig sir. I've got the B&W P5's and I've heard the P7's also. I wouldn't consider any of the B&W headphones worthy of your amps capability. Good headphones would really make a difference in your music enjoyment.


----------



## Feedbacker

My WA6SE has shipped! Got to get it through UK customs yet, which I expect will not be a cheap experience, but hey...
  
 Can anyone recommend a good, reliable, trustworthy purveyor of tubes in the UK/Europe?


----------



## bonesnv

bpcans said:


> bonesnv, nice looking rig sir. I've got the B&W P5's and I've heard the P7's also. I wouldn't consider any of the B&W headphones worthy of your amps capability. Good headphones would really make a difference in your music enjoyment.


 
  
 Thanks, and totally agreed, it's an ongoing wait.


----------



## joseph69

-kent- said:


> Thanks
> 
> I've fallen in love with them the second I saw pictures on head-fi! I wonder - how hot do tubes (Sophia Princess for example) actually get?
> They look like I could burn a toast over them


 
 They don't get hot like you think. The hottest running tube would probably be the GZ34 from my experience, but then again I never touched them, I only held my hand over them and they are warm from about 2-4" away from the tops. As a matter of fact, the aluminum on the entire  amp, only sometimes gets slightly warm, even mine with the wood on it doesn't get hot. 
  


bonesnv said:


> Now I just need the headphones meant for it so I can really enjoy the fully depth of it; and I will be ordering the Sophia and some other tubes this evening.  Stock tubes in the photo.
> 
> Even the P7s got a very minor boost in sound clarity but I wasn't expecting a drastic change with them compared to using the AD2, fairly similar sound makeup between the two amps with the P7s.  I have to keep the volume even on low around the 8-9 o clock range.


 
 Nice!!! enjoy.
  


feedbacker said:


> My WA6SE has shipped! Got to get it through UK customs yet, which I expect will not be a cheap experience, but hey...
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good, reliable, trustworthy purveyor of tubes in the UK/Europe?


 
 Congratulations!


----------



## bbophead

Mostly, don't touch the tubes after they've warmed up.


----------



## Stealer

I'm interested in wa22 to pr with my T1 and he560... 
anyone have this combo? 
and wondering, does woo amp have auto-biasing function.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## punit

stealer said:


> I'm interested in wa22 to pr with my T1 and he560...
> anyone have this combo?
> and wondering, does woo amp have auto-biasing function.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


 

 I have WA22 & T1, highly recommended. You do not have to bias the tubes on WA22. Haven't heard HE 560.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> I have *WA22 & T1, highly recommended*. You do not have to bias the tubes on WA22. Haven't heard HE 560.


 
  
 As long as you are using high output tubes like 7236 and 5998.


----------



## punit

WE421A is also very good.


----------



## daverich4

-kent- said:


> Thanks
> 
> I've fallen in love with them the second I saw pictures on head-fi! I wonder - how hot do tubes (Sophia Princess for example) actually get?
> They look like I could burn a toast over them


 

 I have my WA22 on the shelf that's under the end table next to my couch. The top of my USAF 596, which is that tallest tube in the amp, is 3 inches below the top of the table. The wood above the tube gets just barely warm to the touch after an hour or so of use.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

feedbacker said:


> My WA6SE has shipped! Got to get it through UK customs yet, which I expect will not be a cheap experience, but hey...
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good, reliable, trustworthy purveyor of tubes in the UK/Europe?


 
  
  For the signal tube best use US as it is a US model. Rectifiers can be sourched from all places.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I prefer WA2 for T1 over WA22 still, the wa22 doesnt give the t1 much bass


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> I prefer WA2 for T1 over WA22 still, the wa22 doesnt give the t1 much bass


 

 Agreed , OTL will mostly always give more thumping bass than a Transformer coupled amp. But there are certain tube combinations that i have tried (list below, this list is a WIP, still have quite a few combinations to try from the tubes I own (mentioned in my profile)) which give HD 800 / T1 good quality of bass on WA22 (I listen to a lot of EDM & love my bass).

Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6AS7G + Mullard CV 181
Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6080 + Mullard CV 181
Cossor GZ37 + TS 5998 + Mullard CV 181
EML 5U4G + TS 5998 + Mullard CV 181
USAF 596 + GEC 6080 + TSBGRP 6F8G
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + NU 6F8G
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + Mullard CV 181
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + Sophia Electric 6SN7
USAF 596 + GEC 6AS7G + Mullard CV 181
WE422A + TS5998 + Mullard CV181
WE422A + TS 5998 + TSBGRP 6SN7
WE422A + TS5998 + Ken Rad BG VT 231 6SN7GT 
WE422A + TS7236 + Mullard CV181
WE422A + TS7236 + SP 6SN7
WE422A + WE421A + SP 6SN7
WE422A + WE421A + Mullard CV 181 (This is the best sound I have heard from my HD 800 , I call it the GOD combination  bcos the every once in a while after tube rolling when I change into this combinati0n I invariably say "Oh My God!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## Feedbacker

nic rhodes said:


> For the signal tube best use US as it is a US model. Rectifiers can be sourched from all places.


 
  
 Thanks - will do this...


----------



## Stealer

Thanks ...
You guys are great...
Will be in the club once my woo is in..
Meanwhile enjoy the music

Goodday


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Agreed , OTL will mostly always give more thumping bass than a Transformer coupled amp. But there are certain tube combinations that i have tried (list below, this list is a WIP, still have quite a few combinations to try from the tubes I own (mentioned in my profile)) which give HD 800 / T1 good quality of bass on WA22 (I listen to a lot of EDM & love my bass).
> 
> Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6AS7G + Mullard CV 181
> Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6080 + Mullard CV 181
> ...


 
  
 makes sense, I found the Cossor to have a huge warm bass punch, very full decay, most of the tubes mentioned here are pretty bassy and fun. except 422A / GEC 6AS7G which will sacrifice some punch in exchange for better control as well as resolution/detail.


----------



## Silent One

stealer said:


> Thanks ...
> You guys are great...
> Will be in the club once my woo is in..
> Meanwhile enjoy the music
> ...


 
 Congrats Stealer!





 Former Woozie - _Black WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> except 422A / GEC 6AS7G which will sacrifice some punch in exchange for better control as well as resolution/detail.


 
 422A / GEC 6AS7G on their own may not be bassy but the beauty of WA22 is that all three categories of tubes affect the sound, so while using WE422A  is you use pro-bass power / driver tubes like TS 5998 / 7236, WE421A , Mullard CV 181, Sophia 6SN7 you get good bass. Same goes while using GEC 6AS7G , you use pro-bass recs & drivers.
  
 Edit -  have added some more combinations to my post
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/29910#post_10552915


----------



## OldSkool

My new silver WA2 arrived yesterday and I'm blown away with how it sounds thru the HD800. And that is with the stock tubes! I have better tubes on order and can't wait to hear those.
  
 One question...can I leave my headphones connected during turn on/off, or is it better to unplug each time? Any danger?


----------



## magiccabbage

oldskool said:


> My new silver WA2 arrived yesterday and I'm blown away with how it sounds thru the HD800. And that is with the stock tubes! I have better tubes on order and can't wait to hear those.
> 
> One question...can I leave my headphones connected during turn on/off, or is it better to unplug each time? Any danger?


 
 Its fine just turn the volume all the way down. I do this all the time.


----------



## OldSkool

magiccabbage said:


> Its fine just turn the volume all the way down. I do this all the time.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah just turn volume down cause some of the tubes tend to sometimes make popping noises on warm up (TS 5998 is one of these).


----------



## 2359glenn

With the 5998 it is best to have your headphone unplugged turn the amp on wait 5 minuets then plug in the phones.


----------



## magiccabbage

2359glenn said:


> With the 5998 it is best to have your headphone unplugged turn the amp on wait 5 minuets then plug in the phones.


 
 +1 I actually wait 15-20 minutes just to be sure.


----------



## kljash

oldskool said:


> My new silver WA2 arrived yesterday and I'm blown away with how it sounds thru the HD800. And that is with the stock tubes! I have better tubes on order and can't wait to hear those.
> 
> One question...can I leave my headphones connected during turn on/off, or is it better to unplug each time? Any danger?


 
  
 Congrats.
  
 P.S. Is it Wednesday yet .


----------



## joseph69

oldskool said:


> My new silver WA2 arrived yesterday and I'm blown away with how it sounds thru the HD800. And that is with the stock tubes! I have better tubes on order and can't wait to hear those.
> 
> One question...can I leave my headphones connected during turn on/off, or is it better to unplug each time? Any danger?


 
 Congratulations on the WA2, enjoy it!!!


----------



## jc9394

magiccabbage said:


> Its fine just turn the volume all the way down. I do this all the time.




Not needed. I never did.


----------



## Pudu

oldskool said:


> My new silver WA2 arrived yesterday and I'm blown away with how it sounds thru the HD800. And that is with the stock tubes! I have better tubes on order and can't wait to hear those.
> ...




Congrats! You clearly have great taste in sound ... and colour. 

Well done sir/madame.


----------



## Fugue

I was all set to order a Woo WA 3 for my Sennheiser HD 800s, but looking at the headphones page on Woo's site, they recommend the WA 6, WA6-SE, WA7, WA2, WA22, and WA5-LE for those phones. Why would the WA 3 not be a good choice? I like the OTL idea.


----------



## 62ohm

fugue said:


> I was all set to order a Woo WA 3 for my Sennheiser HD 800s, but looking at the headphones page on Woo's site, they recommend the WA 6, WA6-SE, WA7, WA2, WA22, and WA5-LE for those phones. Why would the WA 3 not be a good choice? I like the OTL idea.


 
  
 I'm using the WA3 for HD800 & T1, works well IMO. The WA3 lacks detail and transparency compared to the WA6, but is warmer, thicker and to me, more musical. So in the end it depends on what you're looking for.


----------



## Silent One

pudu said:


> Congrats! You clearly have great taste in sound ... and colour.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## kazsud

fugue said:


> I was all set to order a Woo WA 3 for my Sennheiser HD 800s, but looking at the headphones page on Woo's site, they recommend the WA 6, WA6-SE, WA7, WA2, WA22, and WA5-LE for those phones. Why would the WA 3 not be a good choice? I like the OTL idea.



 


I would steer clear of the Wa6 & 6LE for the hd800. The Wa2 is your best bet which is also OTL. 

I heard all of them in the same day.


----------



## musicman59

fugue said:


> I was all set to order a Woo WA 3 for my Sennheiser HD 800s, but looking at the headphones page on Woo's site, they recommend the WA 6, WA6-SE, WA7, WA2, WA22, and WA5-LE for those phones. Why would the WA 3 not be a good choice? I like the OTL idea.


 
 I have not listed to the WA3 or WA2 but from the rest the WA5-LE is the best IMO. I bought the WA5-LE after comparing them. If you decide on the WA5-LE I would seriously consider going to fr WA5 because it will give you the power to drive any dynamic or electromagnetic headphones to their best of their capabilities. If I had the chance to make my decision again I would go with the WA5 instead of the WA5-LE.


----------



## Pudu

Besides, it's basically the same price as the WA3.


----------



## bpcans

pudu said:


> Besides, it's basically the same price as the WA3.


If the WA3 and the WA5 were basically the same price I'd have bought the WA5 instead of the 6. Lol. Funny you mention that though. In a perfect world I'd like a WA5 as the power source for my home system. Does anyone out there have such a setup?


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> fugue said:
> 
> 
> > I was all set to order a Woo WA 3 for my Sennheiser HD 800s, but looking at the headphones page on Woo's site, they recommend the WA 6, WA6-SE, WA7, WA2, WA22, and WA5-LE for those phones. Why would the WA 3 not be a good choice? I like the OTL idea.
> ...


 
  
  
 I would not discount WA6SE for HD800.  Just roll in the right tubes, the HD800 will sing.


----------



## walls

My WOO!!




Kills the LD, of course it should. Gonna do a little comparison with my Crack soon.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> I would not discount WA6SE for HD800.  Just roll in the right tubes, the HD800 will sing.


 
  
 +1
  
 with the right tubes, I enjoyed the WA6-SE and HD 800 quite a bit. Though i still preferred the WA2, both where very good with the hd 800
  


kazsud said:


> fugue said:
> 
> 
> > I was all set to order a Woo WA 3 for my Sennheiser HD 800s, but looking at the headphones page on Woo's site, they recommend the WA 6, WA6-SE, WA7, WA2, WA22, and WA5-LE for those phones. Why would the WA 3 not be a good choice? I like the OTL idea.
> ...


 
  
 WA3 doesn't have enough power I don't think, you would be better off with a Crack at that price, it would sound good with slightly less tube rolling to do also. The WA2 is alot better though, and amongst the best i've heard with the HD 800 at that price, beautiful lush tube sound. 
  


musicman59 said:


> I have not listed to the WA3 or WA2 but from the rest the WA5-LE is the best IMO. I bought the WA5-LE after comparing them. If you decide on the WA5-LE I would seriously consider going to fr WA5 because it will give you the power to drive any dynamic or electromagnetic headphones to their best of their capabilities. If I had the chance to make my decision again I would go with the WA5 instead of the WA5-LE.


 
  
 i myself am close to buying a WA5 for Hd 800 and T1.


----------



## bpcans

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> with the right tubes, I enjoyed the WA6-SE and HD 800 quite a bit. Though i still preferred the WA2, both where very good with the hd 800
> 
> ...


Get that WA5 and decide you don't need it so I can buy it from you and get the amp I need


----------



## Fugue

Hmm...I'm getting contradictory advice! I think I'll go with the WA6 since Woo themselves recommend it for the HD800. If I don't like it more than the sound I get from plugging directly into my Oppo 105, then I'll send it back!


----------



## jc9394

fugue said:


> Hmm...I'm getting contradictory advice! I think I'll go with the WA6 since Woo themselves recommend it for the HD800. If I don't like it more than the sound I get from plugging directly into my Oppo 105, then I'll send it back!




PM if you want another choice, been extremely happy with my current setup.


----------



## jc9394

bpcans said:


> Get that WA5 and decide you don't need it so I can buy it from you and get the amp I need




I did get the WA5LE and sold it.


----------



## MickeyVee

Think you'll like it.  I've got the WA6/HD800 and really like it.  Make sure you get at least the Sophia Princess.  I'll probably end up with the WA2 in the fall and be done with it.
  
 Quote:


fugue said:


> Hmm...I'm getting contradictory advice! I think I'll go with the WA6 since Woo themselves recommend it for the HD800. If I don't like it more than the sound I get from plugging directly into my Oppo 105, then I'll send it back!


----------



## bpcans

jc9394 said:


> I did get the WA5LE and sold it.


What was the deal breaker sir? Not enough power?


----------



## lannik

> i myself am close to buying a WA5 for Hd 800 and T1.


 
 enjoy the wa5 + 800 combo, didn't try T1 yet and tube selections


----------



## jc9394

bpcans said:


> What was the deal breaker sir? Not enough power?




Too much for my current need and not enough time to listening to justify keeping it.


----------



## Pudu

Try the WA3.


----------



## 62ohm

It genuinely staggers me on how the vast majority of Head-Fi's population steers away from the WA3. I'm using it to drive HD800 and T1 with Tung Sol 7236 & Tesla 7DJ8 and IMO sounds very good for the money.


----------



## Pudu

It was going to be my first amp, but then a second hand WA2 came up for sale very close to me (and on the same side of the border) so ...


----------



## jc9394

pudu said:


> Try the WA3.




Hummm, from WA5LE to WA3? Interesting idea.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im very close to buying a used WA5... I'm excited, since I can compare to my experiences with wa22, wa6-se, and wa2

if it disappoints, I'll look into Stratus or Glenn 2a3/300b


----------



## 62ohm

dubstep girl said:


> im very close to buying a used WA5... I'm excited, since I can compare to my experiences with wa22, wa6-se, and wa2
> 
> if it disappoints, I'll look into Stratus or Glenn 2a3/300b


 
  
 Looking forward for your impressions mate


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> im very close to buying a used WA5... I'm excited, since I can compare to my experiences with wa22, wa6-se, and wa2


 

 Are you buying HD 800 and / or T1 also ?


----------



## kazsud

62ohm said:


> Looking forward for your impressions mate



 


+1


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> im very close to buying a used WA5... I'm excited, since I can compare to my experiences with wa22, wa6-se, and wa2
> 
> if it disappoints, I'll look into Stratus or Glenn 2a3/300b


 
  
  


62ohm said:


> Looking forward for your impressions mate  ma'am


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> im very close to buying a used WA5... I'm excited, since I can compare to my experiences with wa22, wa6-se, and wa2
> 
> if it disappoints, I'll look into Stratus or Glenn 2a3/300b




Nice, I will bring beers next time in Chicago.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> im very close to buying a used WA5... I'm excited, since I can compare to my experiences with wa22, wa6-se, and wa2
> 
> if it disappoints, I'll look into Stratus or Glenn 2a3/300b


 
 It will be very interesting to hear another opinion on WA5/hd800. I wonder which you will prefer for the HD800 alone? 
  
 You can tell us what you believe to be the best Woo for HD800 regardless of price. Will it top - GSXMK2/HD800?


----------



## musicman59

dubstep girl said:


> im very close to buying a used WA5... I'm excited, since I can compare to my experiences with wa22, wa6-se, and wa2
> 
> if it disappoints, I'll look into Stratus or Glenn 2a3/300b



Just make sure you use the right tubes and not the stock ones. I have EML 300B Mesh, TSBGRP 6F8G and 596 on my LE and sounds great.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> Just make sure you use the right tubes and not the stock ones. I have EML 300B Mesh, TSBGRP 6F8G and 596 on my LE and sounds great.




X2, my WA22 with right tubes sounded better than WA5LE with stock tube. Once you rolled in upgraded tubes, WA5LE is different animal. Missed my WA5LE...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

musicman59 said:


> Just make sure you use the right tubes and not the stock ones. I have EML 300B Mesh, TSBGRP 6F8G and 596 on my LE and sounds great.





looks like those will be the exact tubes ill be getting for the time being. I would one day want a pair of 422As and 300B though, or even better, the WE 274B... :rolleyes:


i do plan on using the wa5 for hd 800/t1, rebuying those soon


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> X2, my WA22 with right tubes sounded better than WA5LE with stock tube. Once you rolled in upgraded tubes, WA5LE is different animal. Missed my WA5LE...


 
 I listened to the mew McIntosh MHA100 with the PM-1, HD800 and HE-6 and sounded fantastic to the point that I ordered one right on the spot. It should arrive by the end of the month. Now I am seriously considering using the McIntosh for all my dynamic and electromagnetic headphones and sell my beloved WA5-LE (which has more upgrades than the officially offered) and most of my tubes to then order a RSA A-10 for my SR-009.
  
 My struggle is that I love my Woo!


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> I listened to the mew McIntosh MHA100 with the PM-1, HD800 and HE-6 and sounded fantastic to the point that I ordered one right on the spot. It should arrive by the end of the month. Now I am seriously considering using the McIntosh for all my dynamic and electromagnetic headphones and sell my beloved WA5-LE (which has more upgrades than the officially offered) and most of my tubes to then order a RSA A-10 for my SR-009.
> 
> My struggle is that I love my Woo!


 
 Congratulations on the McIntosh!!! I would love too hear the MHA100 one day.
 I totally understand how you feel about the Woo…my WA6-S/E shipped today, but I feel bad for my WA6. I most probably won't sell the WA6.


----------



## jc9394

musicman59 said:


> I listened to the mew McIntosh MHA100 with the PM-1, HD800 and HE-6 and sounded fantastic to the point that I ordered one right on the spot. It should arrive by the end of the month. Now I am seriously considering using the McIntosh for all my dynamic and electromagnetic headphones and sell my beloved WA5-LE (which has more upgrades than the officially offered) and most of my tubes to then order a RSA A-10 for my SR-009.
> 
> My struggle is that I love my Woo!




Totally with you on that, loved my Woo. It takes me back and forth for almost a month before I decided selling it, mainly the reason was I traveled three out of four weeks.


----------



## jc9394

Love the look of MHA100...you got me thinking, I should stay away from HF.


----------



## 62ohm

musicman59 said:


> I listened to the mew McIntosh MHA100 with the PM-1, HD800 and HE-6 and sounded fantastic to the point that I ordered one right on the spot. It should arrive by the end of the month. Now I am seriously considering using the McIntosh for all my dynamic and electromagnetic headphones and sell my beloved WA5-LE (which has more upgrades than the officially offered) and most of my tubes to then order a RSA A-10 for my SR-009.
> 
> My struggle is that I love my Woo!


 
  
 Do you still need anything else when you have RSA A-10 and SR-009?


----------



## musicman59

jc9394 said:


> Love the look of MHA100...you got me thinking, I should stay away from HF.


 
  
 Don't listen to it because then you will have to buy it!


----------



## musicman59

62ohm said:


> Do you still need anything else when you have RSA A-10 and SR-009?


 
 Yes. It is like sometimes you are in the mood for a glass of a nice red wine but other times the mood is for champagne...


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> Yes. It is like sometimes you are in the mood for a glass of a nice red wine *but other times the mood is for champagne...*


----------



## Feedbacker

My WA6SE arrived today, and I've just got its first sounds running through it and out of my K701s! I'd decided that Swans new album would be its first music, but I hadn't managed to get out to buy a copy, so I'm playing it from Spotify through my iPhone 5S, which I realise is a travesty really. It still sounds grand right out of the box though.
  
 Going to run it for a few days on stock tubes, and then roll in the 6FD7s and EML 5U4G after that. Want to check all is in order with the amp itself first. So far, so good.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wa5 incoming! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (i can't believe im gonna be a woo girl again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## kazsud

Congrats!!!


----------



## bpcans

dubstep girl said:


> Wa5 incoming!    (i can't believe im gonna be a woo girl again h34r: )


Congratulations. I've always wanted to know a girl who has my dream amp.


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> Wa5 incoming!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You just can't stop, can you?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Gratz!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Wa5 incoming!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Now don't hold back on the pictures. You will have to load us up. I want to see it beside that GSX! 
  
 You will finally have your dream set-up. You must be chuffed? 
  
  
  
 Have you got any tube surprises? Or, just stock for now?


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> Wa5 incoming!    (i can't believe im gonna be a woo girl again h34r: )




What can I say??? I knew you will be a Woo girl forever. When should I bring the beers? Congrats...


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## TontNZ

*An Accidental WA5-LE Owner*
  
 I started out a few months ago thinking that I'd buy a relatively inexpensive headphone amp, I had in mind a budget of about US$500. After looking around I came across the WA7, so I upped the budget a little.  Then I found out that the WA7 had a tube power supply (WA7tp), so up went the budget a little more.  Then I discovered that there was the WA7d + WA7tp, so up it went again!
  
 At this point I'd ordered and paid for the WA7d + WA7tp, since they were on back order I carried on reading and browsing.  Then I discovered the WA5-LE!!  So after much angst and shuffling of funds I switched my order to a WA5-LE + upgrade parts and Teflon sockets!!  Just about 11 times my original budget.
  
 I can't afford the tube upgrades at this point in time (I still have headphones to buy), but can anyone recommend any other upgrades to the WA5-LE that might improve its sonic performance as opposed to aesthetics. I'm in New Zealand and the shipping costs for returning the WA5-LE to Woo Audio for any additional mods would be prohibitive (US$500 round trip). So if there's anything else that's not too expensive and can be done before I take delivery, I might just consider it.
  
 If you have any suggestions, please suggest away!  I asked the same question of Jack Woo but never had a response.
  
 Cheers - Peter


----------



## musicman59

tontnz said:


> *An Accidental WA5-LE Owner*
> 
> I started out a few months ago thinking that I'd buy a relatively inexpensive headphone amp, I had in mind a budget of about US$500. After looking around I came across the WA7, so I upped the budget a little.  Then I found out that the WA7 had a tube power supply (WA7tp), so up went the budget a little more.  Then I discovered that there was the WA7d + WA7tp, so up it went again!
> 
> ...


 
 What I did for mine in addition to the electronic parts upgrade and teflon sockets I sent Jack Neotech OCC Copper wire for all the internal wiring and cards Eutectic solder to be used. I also upgrade the RCA sockets to WBT. After that the only other thing you can do is to change the volume potentiometer to the RK50 but that is way too much money (somewhere around $700-$800) and jack said the improvement was not that significant so I didn't do that.


----------



## kljash

It's here!


----------



## TontNZ

musicman59
  
 Would you mind saying how much Neotech OCC copper wire and WBT RCA sockets cost and where you got them from?


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> Wa5 incoming!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


>


 





. Nice, Dubstep playin @ the Woo Club again.


----------



## musicman59

tontnz said:


> musicman59
> 
> Would you mind saying how much Neotech OCC copper wire and WBT RCA sockets cost and where you got them from?


 
 The WBT Nextgen were provided by Jack as an upgrade option.
 The OCC Copper chassis wire is from soniccraft.com I sent to Jack 20 feet of 20 awg and 25 feet of 16 awg which is what he told me was needed and also sent him 24 feet of Cardas Eutectic solder.


----------



## bbophead

kljash said:


> It's here!


 
 Mighty fine looking!


----------



## Problem

bbophead said:


> Mighty fine looking!


 
 +1, if I could roll back time, would definitely have gotten the WA2 over the WA6-SE for the HD800's.
  
 Now I'm Woo-less!


----------



## bbophead

problem said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > Mighty fine looking!
> ...


 
 Profile still shows a Woo.


----------



## jc9394

problem said:


> +1, if I could roll back time, would definitely have gotten the WA2 over the WA6-SE for the HD800's.
> 
> *Now I'm Woo-less! *


 
  
 You are not the only one here...


----------



## kazsud

kljash said:


> It's here!



 



New or used?


----------



## kljash

kazsud said:


> kljash said:
> 
> 
> > It's here!
> ...




New.


----------



## joseph69

kljash said:


> New.


 
 Congratulations that is a beautiful amp, enjoy it!


----------



## punit

kljash said:


> It's here!


 

 'Grats. let the tube rolling begin.


----------



## kljash

punit said:


> 'Grats. let the tube rolling begin.











joseph69 said:


> Congratulations that is a beautiful amp, enjoy it!




Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> problem said:
> 
> 
> > +1, if I could roll back time, would definitely have gotten the WA2 over the WA6-SE for the HD800's.
> ...


 
 I'm Woo-less, too!


----------



## bonesnv

Should hopefully get my new tubes in next few weeks.  Curious to hear the difference once the Sophia gets in there vs stock.  Even stock, Zeppelin I, has never sounded this clear to my ears.  I grew up in the womb listening to this album, along with a bunch of others since my Dad was a but of a vinyl junkie, but I specifically know this one front and back.  Have had fairly reasonable 2 channel and car audio systems, but only within the last year have I started down the headphone route.
  
 I am loving it so far, there's feeling of instruments being totally isolated, where you can differentiate every band member separately throughout the music.  This amp brought out a much different sound compared to the Asgard 2, it made that amp sound fairly dull to be honest, with the same headphones.  It really makes it a challenge to go between the two, since one amp is at work and others at home on the nightstand.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > problem said:
> ...




Seriously. Don't they ever do any spring cleaning in here?


----------



## Silent One

pudu said:


> Seriously. Don't they ever do any spring cleaning in here?


 
 Seems my wallet is cleaned seasonally, not annually.


----------



## -kent-

Today my WA6 arrived!! 
 Can't wait to take them out of the package, but first I need to work (somehow)
  
 The WA6 are standing right next to me, so it's kind of hard to think of something else LOL


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> Seems my wallet is cleaned seasonally, not annually.




My tea tin cleaned monthly, the way it is going I will never able to afford a WA5 and LCD-3. :mad:


----------



## joseph69

-kent- said:


> Today my WA6 arrived!!
> Can't wait to take them out of the package, but first I need to work (somehow)
> 
> The WA6 are standing right next to me, so it's kind of hard to think of something else LOL


 
 Congratulations on the WA6! You've got a really nice sounding amp there, enjoy it!


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> My tea tin cleaned monthly, the way it is going I will never able to afford a WA5 and LCD-3.


 
 JC that is because you keep buying glass!!!!


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> JC that is because you keep buying glass!!!!




I'm done with buying glass, just waiting for my last one. Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art.


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> I'm done with buying glass, just waiting for my last one. Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art.


 
 Me too and done buying cameras. I only want one more lens and it will be the 85MM 1.8G


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrats! It's a great little amp.  Love mine. Only had it for a few motnths and am already wondering how a WA2 or WA22 would sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Do eventually go for an upgraded rectifier.
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-kent-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Today my WA6 arrived!!
> Can't wait to take them out of the package, but first I need to work (somehow)


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> Me too and done buying cameras. I only want one more lens and it will be the 85MM 1.8G


 
  
 one sharp lens there, still not sure why i upgraded it to f1.4 version.  be careful low light focusing using a speed light, it is ht or miss.  the infrared focus assist is causing a lot of headache for me with both version of 85mm.


----------



## -kent-

Thanks 
  
 I will take some pics next week. First I'm at the Prince Concert in Antwerp, then I'll take some pics later on.
  
 A question - I hooked the WA6 to my external sound card (Nuforce DAC) - how loud should the DAC be? And is it okay to use the headphone out of the nuforce for the WA6?
 (is there actually any difference between the headphone out and the chinch outputs on the back?)


----------



## punit

-kent- said:


> A question - I hooked the WA6 to my external sound card (Nuforce DAC) - how loud should the DAC be? And is it okay to use the headphone out of the nuforce for the WA6? (is there actually any difference between the headphone out and the chinch outputs on the back?)


 
 Please connect the WA6 to the RCA out's at the back of the dac. Connecting the HP out of a DAC to another HP amp is absolutely the last possible option to be used (if you really cannot afford a dac with a fixed line out) & strictly a no-no...


----------



## kazsud

-kent- said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Dac turned all the way up. 

Control volume one amp.

At-least that's how I've always done it


----------



## jc9394

-kent- said:


> Thanks
> 
> I will take some pics next week. First I'm at the Prince Concert in Antwerp, then I'll take some pics later on.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 turn it up before distortions begin, lower it so no more distortion and keep it there.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> My tea tin cleaned monthly, the way it is going I will never able to afford a WA5 and LCD-3.


 
 I'm thinking if I switch to a diet of tea & ramen for 6 months then maybe, just maybe...


----------



## -kent-

punit said:


> Please connect the WA6 to the RCA out's at the back of the dac. Connecting the HP out of a DAC to another HP amp is absolutely the last possible option to be used (if you really cannot afford a dac with a fixed line out) & strictly a no-no...




Good to know and thank you! 
The Nuforce does have both, but the RCA were already in use for my Audioengine A5s.

I think I will change that now after I get back home. Is there any good quality switch for RCA? A few weeks ago I bought the HD800 and now the WA6,so my wallet has seen some better days...


----------



## bpcans

silent one said:


> I'm thinking if I switch to a diet of tea & ramen for 6 months then maybe, just maybe... :rolleyes:


I hear ya'. Get rid of girlfriend. Stop driving car. Ramen and tea. Check! It's gonna take more than six months for a WA5 and some Audeze's. The numbers don't lie.


----------



## Silent One

bpcans said:


> I hear ya'. Get rid of girlfriend. Stop driving car. Ramen and tea. Check! It's gonna take more than six months for a WA5 and some Audeze's. The numbers don't lie.


 
 Since one typically eats less in hot weather I'll get off to a _fast start._.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 already have re-cabled HE-6 cans, so one down and one to go!


----------



## joseph69

If anyone is interested, I just put my WA6 (without the wood) with a few extras + free shipping and PP fees to the lower 48 only. Thanks.


----------



## MickeyVee

I use the Audioquest Hard RCA splitter out of my DAC.  No SQ degradation that I can hear but I run either the amp or my desktop speaker.
  
 http://www.audioquest.com/custom-install/splitters-connectors
  
 Quote:


-kent- said:


> The Nuforce does have both, but the RCA were already in use for my Audioengine A5s.
> Is there any good quality switch for RCA? A few weeks ago I bought the HD800 and now the WA6,so my wallet has seen some better days...


----------



## snapple10

Back in the club but went with an old friend
Thanks to the gentleman who was willing to let go
Have not been using my Grados since I sold my woos
Sophia on desk and hoping the 596 survived storage 
Hoping to use it more this time around


----------



## Silent One

snapple10 said:


> Back in the club but went with an old friend
> Thanks to the gentleman who was willing to let go
> Have not been using my Grados since I sold my woos
> Sophia on desk and hoping the 596 survived storage
> Hoping to use it more this time around


----------



## bbophead

snapple10 said:


> Back in the club but went with an old friend
> Thanks to the gentleman who was willing to let go
> Have not been using my Grados since I sold my woos
> Sophia on desk and hoping the 596 survived storage
> Hoping to use it more this time around


 
 Let this be a lesson to all of us.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

snapple10 said:


> Back in the club but went with an old friend
> Thanks to the gentleman who was willing to let go
> Have not been using my Grados since I sold my woos
> Sophia on desk and hoping the 596 survived storage
> Hoping to use it more this time around


----------



## Dubstep Girl

as for me....my woo just arrived!!!
  

  
  
 im surprised my $20 walmart shelf is actually holding the giant woos quite well, i would think the plastic legs would of broken or the cheap wood snapping, lol im gonna get something nicer soon.


----------



## snapple10

Oh mine, that's is a lot of tubes
Nice and enjoy !!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

thanks!
  
 just put the upgraded tubes in, wow, i can only imagine how good this amp is gonna sound with beyer t1 and hd 800!!!
  
 like absolutely zero grain, with th-900...


----------



## joseph69

snapple10 said:


> Back in the club but went with an old friend
> Thanks to the gentleman who was willing to let go
> Have not been using my Grados since I sold my woos
> Sophia on desk and hoping the 596 survived storage
> Hoping to use it more this time around


 
 Cool, just received my WA6-S/E 2 days ago, upgraded from the WA6. Burning it in with the stock tubes for now, but can't wait to put the 596/6FD7's in!
  


dubstep girl said:


> as for me....my woo just arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations! Very nice!
 Better get some steel legs under there…that would be quite an expensive fall!!! Enjoy!


----------



## bpcans

dubstep girl said:


> as for me....my woo just arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome looking amp Dubstep Girl. Let us know how it sounds.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> as for me....my woo just arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 






 WOW that was fast! Can't wait for you to sit in...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

dubstep girl said:


> thanks!
> 
> just put the upgraded tubes in, wow, i can only imagine how good this amp is gonna sound with beyer t1 and hd 800!!!
> 
> like absolutely zero grain, with th-900...


 
  
 You've got some nice gear.  Look forward to your impressions after the amp and tubes break-in.


----------



## punit

snapple10 said:


> Back in the club but went with an old friend
> Thanks to the gentleman who was willing to let go
> Have not been using my Grados since I sold my woos
> Sophia on desk and hoping the 596 survived storage
> Hoping to use it more this time around


 

 Are those 6SN7's with adapters ? I thought 6SN7's can only be used with WA6 & not with WA6SE ?
 Edit: yes, just confirmed the above from the Woo site. so how are you using them (if they are 6SN7's), is the amp modded ?


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> thanks!
> 
> just put the upgraded tubes in, wow, i can only imagine how good this amp is gonna sound with beyer t1 and hd 800!!!
> 
> like absolutely zero grain, with th-900...


 

 DG, I am guessing those are TSBG 6F8G's ? The TS 6F8G'S have some of the best soundstage & airiness for highs but TSBGRP 6SN7 gives slightly more bass punch on my WA22. Try the TSBGRP with HD800 if you get a chance. But the Mullard / Phillips CV181 is the ultimate, it has best of everything.
  
 edit: I just realised I am giving Tube advice to DG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Please don't mind me , just excited that you are one officially of us again.


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> as for me....my woo just arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What did you have to sell this round to get back into this mess?


----------



## -kent-

Thank you! Just ordered a pair of them.


----------



## OldSkool

dubstep girl said:


> as for me....my woo just arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats, I'm happy for you!


----------



## snapple10

Left Adapters are from Woo but I need to confirm the tubes 

Had to make sure 596 works before I went to bed


----------



## joseph69

snapple10 said:


> Back in the club but went with an old friend
> Thanks to the gentleman who was willing to let go
> Have not been using my Grados since I sold my woos
> Sophia on desk and hoping the 596 survived storage
> Hoping to use it more this time around


 
 I just upgraded from the 6 to the 6-S/E, and Jack told me 2 times I couldn't use my 6SN7's with the 6-S/E.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> Are those 6SN7's with adapters ? I thought 6SN7's can only be used with WA6 & not with WA6SE ?
> Edit: yes, just confirmed the above from the Woo site. so how are you using them (if they are 6SN7's), is the amp modded ?


 
 Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't realize . They sure look like 6SN7s + Woo adapters.


----------



## snapple10

I got them like that from another member 
I am not even sure which tubes these are ? 
Tube experts can confirm and we gob from there
When I had wa6se , in the past , Sophia and the 596 were " my tubes" 
But adapters has by Woo if that helps


----------



## joseph69

snapple10 said:


> I got them like that from another member
> I am not even sure which tubes these are ?
> Tube experts can confirm and we gob from there
> When I had wa6se , in the past , Sophia and the 596 were " my tubes"
> But adapters has by Woo if that helps


 
 Do the adapters say "Woo Audio 6SN7>6DE7" on them?


----------



## bfreedma

snapple10 said:


> I got them like that from another member
> I am not even sure which tubes these are ?
> Tube experts can confirm and we gob from there
> When I had wa6se , in the past , Sophia and the 596 were " my tubes"
> But adapters has by Woo if that helps




If those are 6sn7s, you should take them out f the 6SE. They are definitely not compatible.


----------



## snapple10

Other side


----------



## joseph69

I misunderstood the compatibility chart, it does say WA6 only!
 I thought it said the adapters where (not) needed for the 6-S/E, but needed for the 6... sorry.


----------



## bfreedma

snapple10 said:


> Other side




Those are 6em7/6gl7s and are compatible with the 6SE. I love them with the 596 but didn't like them at all with any other rectifier I tried.

Sorry about the confusion.


----------



## bfreedma

joseph69 said:


> I misunderstood the compatibility chart, it does say WA6 only!
> I thought it said the adapters where (not) needed for the 6-S/E, but needed for the 6... sorry.




No problem and after seeing the pictures, these are compatible with the 6SE as they aren't 6SN7s after all.

If you look at where the alternate tubes are listed for the 6, a number of them are specifically called out as incompatible with the 6SE. I agree with you that the compatibility chart isn't entirely clear.

Glad you're enjoying your new amp!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> DG, I am guessing those are TSBG 6F8G's ? The TS 6F8G'S have some of the best soundstage & airiness for highs but TSBGRP 6SN7 gives slightly more bass punch on my WA22. Try the TSBGRP with HD800 if you get a chance. But the Mullard / Phillips CV181 is the ultimate, it has best of everything.
> 
> edit: I just realised I am giving Tube advice to DG
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 yeah TS 6F8G, i agree, i need to get regular BGRP 6SN7 or ideally CV181, but yeah they're very expensive, it'll be a while before i buy any better tubes. a pair of 422A or u52 would also be nice.


----------



## joseph69

Yeah, the tubes themselves looked like my 6SN7's. I had the 6GL7's and they looked a bit shorter I thought.
 Thanks for  clearing this up and posting the pic's of the adapters.


----------



## joseph69

bfreedma said:


> No problem and after seeing the pictures, these are compatible with the 6SE as they aren't 6SN7s after all.
> 
> If you look at where the alternate tubes are listed for the 6, a number of them are specifically called out as incompatible with the 6SE. I agree with you that the compatibility chart isn't entirely clear.
> 
> Glad you're enjoying your new amp!


 
 Thank you. And it is a little confusing!
  
  

6SN7​Yes​For WA6 only. A 8-pin to 9-pin adapter is needed.
  

6SN7​Yes​For WA6 only. A 8-pin to 9-pin adapter is needed.


----------



## snapple10

Got some 6SN7s on Oppo though , they do look similar

Glad that got cleared up


----------



## joseph69

*Dubstep Girl*, I thought when I posted about waiting for my 6SN7's to arrive, you said you didn't like them?
  BTW, Your welcome for the compliment on your new amp.


----------



## punit

joseph69 said:


> *Dubstep Girl*, I thought when I posted about waiting for my 6SN7's to arrive, you said you didn't like them?
> BTW, Your welcome for the compliment on your new amp.


 

 I think she meant on the WA6. Tube's sound diff from amp to amp.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> I think she meant on the WA6. Tube's sound diff from amp to amp.


 
  I thought in general she just didn't like the sound of them.
 So the sound of the tubes can vary that much from amp to amp? Thanks.


----------



## punit

joseph69 said:


> I thought in general she just didn't like the sound of them.
> So the sound of the tubes can vary that much from amp to amp? Thanks.


 

 I really liked some of the 6sn7's , especially the Sophia 6sn7, on the WA6. Time to change your profile pic Joseph


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> I really liked some of the 6sn7's , especially the Sophia 6sn7, on the WA6. Time to change your profile pic Joseph


 
 I also really liked the Sylvania 6SN7 WGTA that I used…but can't anymore, unfortunately.
 Yes, I will change the avatar, but first I have some nice plans for the 6-S/E, which will take a little time though. Thanks!


----------



## punit

Infact when I decided to move up from the WA6, the one thing that was a deal breaker for me regarding the WA6 SE was that I couldn't use my 6SN7 tubes.


----------



## bbophead

@ DG:  Bling on, bay-bay!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

joseph69 said:


> I thought in general she just didn't like the sound of them.
> So the sound of the tubes can vary that much from amp to amp? Thanks.


 
  
 mostly I find its hard to find good 6SN7, on most of the amps i have tried, they introduce noise and microphonics, the tubes themselves are more sensitive overall.
  
 im happy to say though that the WA5 right now doesn't seem to have any issues with the 6SN7/6F8G, dead silent, its amazing it can do that, the Wa22 sucked at doing that.


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> mostly I find its hard to find good 6SN7, on most of the amps i have tried, they introduce noise and microphonics, the tubes themselves are more sensitive overall.
> 
> im happy to say though that the WA5 right now doesn't seem to have any issues with the 6SN7/6F8G, dead silent, its amazing it can do that, the Wa22 sucked at doing that.


 

 Hmm.. I never had a problem with 6sn7 noise on my WA22 except when with one Ken Rad VT 231, but the tube itself was bad & has noise in all amps I tried it with.
  
 Did you try the HE 6 on the WA5 yet ?


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> mostly I find its hard to find good 6SN7, on most of the amps i have tried, they introduce noise and microphonics, the tubes themselves are more sensitive overall.
> 
> im happy to say though that the WA5 right now doesn't seem to have any issues with the 6SN7/6F8G, dead silent, its amazing it can do that, the Wa22 sucked at doing that.


 
 Told you they were excellent tubes in the WA5. Glad you having a blast with the amp and tubes.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> Infact when I decided to move up from the WA6, the one thing that was a deal breaker for me regarding the WA6 SE was that I couldn't use my 6SN7 tubes.


 
 So you didn't buy it?
 I realize this after I ordered my amp…but it wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me anyway.
  


dubstep girl said:


> mostly I find its hard to find good 6SN7, on most of the amps i have tried, they introduce noise and microphonics, the tubes themselves are more sensitive overall.
> 
> im happy to say though that the WA5 right now doesn't seem to have any issues with the 6SN7/6F8G, dead silent, its amazing it can do that, the Wa22 sucked at doing that.


 
 Oh, so the issue was just noise with that particular amp, I see.
 Glad too hear you don't have this issue with the new amp, because I think they sound really good, but unfortunately I can't use mine any more.


----------



## snapple10

^ curious how 6DR7 compares to 6DE7  and to  6EM7
  
 I am under  the impression 6EM7 is an upgrade 
  
 gotta love the activities on the woo thread


----------



## joseph69

snapple10 said:


> ^ curious how 6DR7 compares to 6DE7  and to  6EM7
> 
> I am under  the impression 6EM7 is an upgrade
> 
> gotta love the activities on the woo thread


 
 The 6GL7/6EM7 are the same tubes. I tried them from Woo and found they had way too much bass for my taste and drowned out all of the detail/clarity, IMO. Despite it is an upgrade according to Woo's site, I felt it was a downgrade for me


----------



## snapple10

good for me , I enjoy fun bass 
My Grados does not seem as bright as I remember them on the woo or maybe am not as sensitive to brightness


----------



## bfreedma

joseph69 said:


> snapple10 said:
> 
> 
> > ^ curious how 6DR7 compares to 6DE7  and to  6EM7
> ...




I find that the 6FD7s have all of the "goodness" of the 6GL7s without the bass bloat the GLs have with a lot of combinations of rectifiers and headphones. It took me a while to get past my own bias that the more expensive tubes had to be better and transition to the FDs as my primary tubes.

596 + 6FD7 + LCD3 =  for me.


----------



## Feedbacker

About 10 hours into my new WA6-SE, and it sounds good to me. It feels like I'm in a big room inside my K701s, and I've never heard anything quite like it. My first tube amp, so I've only got solid state to compare it with, but I'm liking the journey so far. The next couple of hundred hours should be interesting!
  
 Planning to go with the stock tubes up to 20 hours, then switch to the upgrades. Gonna have to dust it soon, too!


----------



## joseph69

bfreedma said:


> I find that the 6FD7s have all of the "goodness" of the 6GL7s without the bass bloat the GLs have with a lot of combinations of rectifiers and headphones. It took me a while to get past my own bias that the more expensive tubes had to be better and transition to the FDs as my primary tubes.
> 
> 596 + 6FD7 + LCD3 =  for me.


 
 I have the 6FD7's also, and can't wait to take out the stock tubes in the 6-S/E and hear the 596/6FD7 combo…I think I'll do it in about another 10hrs or so. But I must say, even with the stock tubes the 6-S/E sound nice.
  


feedbacker said:


> About 10 hours into my new WA6-SE, and it sounds good to me. It feels like I'm in a big room inside my K701s, and I've never heard anything quite like it. My first tube amp, so I've only got solid state to compare it with, but I'm liking the journey so far. The next couple of hundred hours should be interesting!
> 
> Planning to go with the stock tubes up to 20 hours, then switch to the upgrades. Gonna have to dust it soon, too!


 
 Agreed, it sounds great right out of the box…where in the same boat waiting to change the tubes! 
 I tried listening to mtg Adcom GFP-710 (SS) pre-amp after using my WA6 for about 4-5 months exclusively, and I couldn't believe the difference…I sold the Adcom the next day!


----------



## bbophead

FD for me!


----------



## Feedbacker

joseph69 said:


> Agreed, it sounds great right out of the box…where in the same boat waiting to change the tubes!
> I tried listening to mtg Adcom GFP-710 (SS) pre-amp after using my WA6 for about 4-5 months exclusively, and I couldn't believe the difference…I sold the Adcom the next day!


 
  
 Waiting for my DAC fund to reach a level that will allow for further expenditure, and then more headphones... Oh, and tubes, obv...!


----------



## GalaxyGuy

dubstep girl said:


> mostly I find its hard to find good 6SN7, on most of the amps i have tried, they introduce noise and microphonics, the tubes themselves are more sensitive overall.
> 
> im happy to say though that the WA5 right now doesn't seem to have any issues with the 6SN7/6F8G, dead silent, its amazing it can do that, the Wa22 sucked at doing that.


 
 My WA22 is pretty quiet with 6F8Gs.  The transformers are not quiet, but the tubes definitely are.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> as for me....my woo just arrived!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Wow, you took no time to get this...did you get any optional upgrades?  At the very least the Teflon sockets is a must have.


----------



## Silent One

OK, time for a former fellow Woozie to get in there! Just woke up - hey, I went to bed after sunrise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - and saw a haze surrounding 6SN7 tubes and the _WA 6 Special Edition._
  

  
 Behold: My Black _Special Edition_ with Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates (Oval micas) VT-231 (6SN7GT); USAF-596 (The Mighty 596!) Adapters for both drive tubes and rectifier from 2359glenn|studio.
  
 Running 6SN7 series in the SE is something Jack never preferred. I recall a few owners that did had issues with their pre-April 2010 models. Though, mine was a 2010 midsummer release, it's still not something WooAudio is comfortable with. 
  
 One of the first things I did was make the switch to 6SN7 series rather than roll down the compatibility chart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I received my Woo on "9 July 2010." I noticed it ran hot out the box and summertime wasn't helping. The first thing I noticed after making the switch was the amp ran as cool as the other side of the pillow...all day, baby! Further, a handful of times I pushed past the recommended 8 hour run-time limit, going 20 consecutive hours. STILL ran cool! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm not advising anyone to follow my lead, I'm merely providing examples of my personal experience and explorations. Now, where can I find Brunch?


----------



## bbophead

Nice black, Jack!


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> OK, time for a former fellow Woozie to get in there! Just woke up - hey, I went to bed after sunrise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So you can run the 6SN7's (with adapters) in the 6-S/E???
 Are you saying Jack didn't recommend them due too heat issues?
 But as long as you are running cool, it is not a problem (for you)?
 I totally understand that you are NOT saying to do/try this…its just that you have/had no issues with it.


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> *1. *So you can run the 6SN7's (with adapters) in the 6-S/E???
> *2.* Are you saying Jack didn't recommend them due too heat issues?
> *3.* But as long as you are running cool, it is not a problem (for you)?
> *4.* I totally understand that you are NOT saying to do/try this…its just that you have/had no issues with it.


 
 1. Yes, but WooAudio does not recommend this.
 2. I did not specify the reason nor did Jack when I asked him.
 3. "Running cool" was just an aside. Amps can sound great nice and toasty! 
 4. Correct! I've yet to learn the specific reason. Time for someone to resurrect this inquiry.
  
 Note: Simply found more selection and refinement among 6SN7 series tubes than the standard offerings. And many many different 6SN7s exists for one to try.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Wow, you took no time to get this...did you get any optional upgrades?  At the very least the Teflon sockets is a must have.


 
 DG was no joking, baby...got right to it! May have to send her a reminder to eat dinner.


----------



## kazsud

silent one said:


> DG was no joking, baby...got right to it! May have to send her a reminder to eat dinner.




Lol


----------



## Sko0byDoo

silent one said:


> Running 6SN7 series in the SE is something Jack never preferred. I recall a few owners that did had issues with their pre-April 2010 models. Though, mine was a 2010 midsummer release, it's still not something WooAudio is comfortable with.
> 
> One of the first things I did was make the switch to 6SN7 series rather than roll down the compatibility chart.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You do get much lower output gain, right? on the 6SN7's.  Have to turn mine to two or three o'clock position for a decent volume.  
  
 Did my own adapters per Glenn's suggestion using Woo 6GL7 > 6DE7.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> DG was no joking, baby...got right to it! May have to send her a reminder to eat dinner.




Dinner is over rated. Hum, not a bad idea. I will ask my wife if I can buy a WA5 if I skip dinner for the next couple months.


----------



## Problem

sko0bydoo said:


> You do get much lower output gain, right? on the 6SN7's.  Have to turn mine to two or three o'clock position for a decent volume.
> 
> Did my own adapters per Glenn's suggestion using Woo 6GL7 > 6DE7.


 
 It was different when I had my WA6-SE and the 6SN7 adapters, normally the 6GL7 would get loud around 7-8 o'clock for me, but it was around 8-9 o'clock position when using 6SN7's.
  
 Had similar results as SO, runs much cooler but had an extremely microphonic RCA grey glass 6SN7's but makes it annoying to listen


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *Problem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> It was different when I had my WA6-SE and the 6SN7 adapters, normally the 6GL7 would get loud around 7-8 o'clock for me, but it was around 8-9 o'clock position when using 6SN7's.
> ...


 
 Exact same experience with you regarding the volume pot. Standard tubes 7-8 o'clock, 8-9 o'clock for 6SN7s, with gain still to be had for those fav _drive-by_ passages in songs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 However, my RCA Grey glass were not extremely microphonic.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Dinner is over rated. Hum, not a bad idea.* I will ask my wife* if I can buy a WA5 if I skip dinner for the next couple months.


 




  





 NO NO, in your case it's less about the food and more about your spending quality fam time at the table!


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> 1. Yes, but WooAudio does not recommend this.
> 2. I did not specify the reason nor did Jack when I asked him.
> 3. "Running cool" was just an aside. Amps can sound great nice and toasty!
> 4. Correct! I've yet to learn the specific reason. Time for someone to resurrect this inquiry.
> ...


 
 Thanks for answering my questions in order like that, very good communication.
 As long as there are no problems with damaging the amp, I'm considering trying them, but I'm still little scared.
 Anyway, I'm in no rush, I'm still burning-in the 6-S/E with the stock tubes at this point. Thanks again.


----------



## 2359glenn

silent one said:


> > Originally Posted by *Problem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> >
> > It was different when I had my WA6-SE and the 6SN7 adapters, normally the 6GL7 would get loud around 7-8 o'clock for me, but it was around 8-9 o'clock position when using 6SN7's.
> ...


 

 SO you should tell them you had special adapters.  If you use 6GL7 adapters you will burn up 6SN7s


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Wow, you took no time to get this...did you get any optional upgrades?  At the very least the Teflon sockets is a must have.


 
  
 nope, base WA5.
  
 it was the one Frank I used to own.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> nope, base WA5.
> 
> it was the one Frank I used to own.




Oh, Frank I spent a little too much in the glasses like I did earlier this year. When is my next trip to Chicago? Mental note to myself, check calendar on Tuesday.


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> SO you should tell them you had special adapters.  If you use 6GL7 adapters you will burn up 6SN7s


 
 Hi, I would assume you are Glenn who makes the "Glenn adapters" which I use with my 596 (nice build quality). 
 Do you have any opinion on using the 6SN7's with the 6SN7>6DE7 adapters for the WA6-S/E? Thank you.


----------



## Silent One

2359glenn said:


> SO you should tell them you had special adapters.  If you use 6GL7 adapters you will burn up 6SN7s


 
 Good point and thanks for adding clarity! I did mention having adapters from _yours truly_ in my attempt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


> Behold: My Black _Special Edition_ with Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates (Oval micas) VT-231 (6SN7GT); USAF-596 (The Mighty 596!) *Adapters for both drive tubes and rectifier from 2359glenn|studio.*


----------



## bonesnv

Damn it, I have more tubes to look up now, lol. 
  
 By the way, DG, that rectifier thread was incredibly helpful.  Have the S/P coming already from Woo, but ordered up a Mullard GZ32 from Upscale Audio as well based on your comments and others regarding its sound.
  
 Not to the point of the U52 just yet, plus have to make sure I know much more than I do now of what to really look for before I invest that much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bonesnv said:


> Damn it, I have more tubes to look up now, lol.
> 
> By the way, DG, that rectifier thread was incredibly helpful.  Have the S/P coming already from Woo, but ordered up a Mullard GZ32 from Upscale Audio as well based on your comments and others regarding its sound.
> 
> Not to the point of the U52 just yet, plus have to make sure I know much more than I do now of what to really look for before I invest that much.


 
  
 i just ordered a pair of the GZ32 for my WA5 as well. They're almost as good as the U52, same sound overall, its good for now since i don't wanna spent $800 + on double U52's.


----------



## Khragon

dubstep girl said:


> mostly I find its hard to find good 6SN7, on most of the amps i have tried, they introduce noise and microphonics, the tubes themselves are more sensitive overall.
> 
> im happy to say though that the WA5 right now doesn't seem to have any issues with the 6SN7/6F8G, dead silent, its amazing it can do that, the *Wa22 sucked at doing that*.


 
 Thanks for that bit of info, I'm was pulling my hair out wondering why some of my tubes have a low hum to them.  After your comment,  I came to the realization recently that it's probably the amp.  I was going nut asking tube sellers if they're tubes are silent.  Look like WA5 is going to be on my radar in the near future.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im surprised how good of a job it does with he-6 too


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> im surprised how good of a job it does with he-6 too


 
  
 you are not helping here, especially for a person that ran out of toy budget for this year already.


----------



## GloryUprising

Anyone know what design changes occurred for the wa6-se in 2010 that allowed more tube options? 

I could never find exactly what changed....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> you are not helping here, especially for a person that ran out of toy budget for this year already.


 
  
 like i'm so glad i chose this over the Stratus. it sounds incredible. much better than the other woos! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Im impressed by how good HE-6 sounds out of it too.


----------



## Khragon

DG,
  
 Can you tell us how it compared to the WA22 given similar tube setup?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

khragon said:


> DG,
> 
> Can you tell us how it compared to the WA22 given similar tube setup?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 well so far its definitely a step above the other Woos, the WA6-SE, WA2, and WA22, which I have owned aren't as good, even all maxed out with the best tubes you can get.
  
 it still shares the same woo sound but its different like all the other woos. it fixes the problems the WA22 had. 
  
 like this amp is very transparent, unlike the other woos, theres no doubt that this one has top level performance. its dynamic, but at the same time, soft and relaxed, not slow, but rather less PRaT, though the amp is actually quite fast as far as transients go, separation is great, no congestion. it images very well, lots of depth soundstage is natural, more rounded than lets say a WA2, the mids are soft and presented slightly forward but they arent aggressive. bass is similar to GSX, neutral, very well textured and natural. very detailed, similar to the other woos.
  
 not as aggressive as a WA6-SE but similar detail and dynamics, this amp is tubier sounding. more euphonic, tonality is balanced, its not super dreamy silky goodness like a WA2 though, not as colored or warm or as lush as a WA22, more neutral, faster, but at the same time more relaxed. WA6-SE had bigger soundstage than WA5 but not as much depth, separation, or imaging. similar size to WA2 soundstage, just more rounded out. nothing like the huge soundstage the WA22 had.  the mids are well present and detailed,, but they aren't as forward as the WA22, has more bass than the WA22, almost as much as WA2, less bloom and decay but very tight very clean and textured. the bass is actually very good.
  
  
 noise is very low, kinda like WA2, slightly more quiet until louder volumes. more quiet than WA6-SE background and definitely alot more than WA22, which is noisy woo amp.


----------



## Frank I

For anyone interested I will be putting thes eon Ebay so i wanted to make one last attempot to sell at a lower price to some members. This is what i ahve
  
  
 RCA 5U4G 1 pair - 35.00 each or 65.00  for the pair- 5.00 shipping
  
  
 Tungsol  Black Glass glass flat plate 1942 matched pair NOS Army Signal Corps tubes  $200. 00 shipped 6F8Gi     I will sell the two pairs of TS 6f8G for 300.00  shipped CONUS
 Sylvania VT 99(6F8G)  matched pairs and very close in sound to the tungsol BGP  95.00 pair  NOS- 2 PAIRS
  
 These are really priced rite for quick sale but will be auction on ebay- If you want these let me know today as I am in the process of putting them up for sale on ebay. If somebody wants them whole lot I will work out a better deal.
  
  
  
 JC your right I spent 5K on glass and 2K  on my second Nikon D610..


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> you are not helping here, especially for a person that ran out of toy budget for this year already.


 
 Glass and camera took 7K .  I know you spent around the same but only one more piece of glass to go and that will be it for me. Two prips and done for a long while with glass.


----------



## jc9394

frank i said:


> Glass and camera took 7K .  I know you spent around the same but only one more piece of glass to go and that will be it for me. Two prips and done for a long while with glass.




I spent way more, the holy trinity cost that alone. I also have all the 1.4 primes and couple Zeiss.


----------



## Frank I

jc9394 said:


> I spent way more, the holy trinity cost that alone. I also have all the 1.4 primes and couple Zeiss.


 
 I also bought another lens last year my 80-200 Nikon 2.8 and also bought the d7100 late last year so I got close to 10K also in camera gear spent.  Instead of buying the 70-200 2.8mI elected to have the  80-200 and the 300MM prime for the same bucks. The d7100 is my track meet camera and with the 1. 3 crop I got 600MM on the pirme lens. if I had to buy the 600mM prime for my d610 it would be 10K just for that lens. If I want to buy the D4S I could right now with what in my  toy budget . But restraining but thinking real ahrd about the D4S except it wont do 600MM with my 300MM lens.


----------



## Frank I

Thansk for all the interest in the tubes. They are all sold now need to keep  resisting the Nikon D4S


----------



## Fugue

^^ Don't you think Woo deserves better than Walmart?


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Thansk for all the interest in the tubes. They are all sold now need to keep  resisting the Nikon D4S


 
 hahaha - Frank you have chronic gear lust!!


----------



## bonesnv

So, how about driver/power tubes that pair up well with the GZ32?  Don't want to go down the 6SN7 path until I hear back from my email, would prefer not to pop my amp.  Most don't seem to care much for the 6GL7 from what I can tell, so what is the general consensus?  Do the driver tubes typically affect the sound as much as rectifiers?


----------



## Khragon

My experience is that the driver tubes affect the sound the most, then rectifier and finally power. Ymmv


----------



## zbdajj

WOO audio's products are very beautiful. Even more beautiful than Chord


----------



## magiccabbage

khragon said:


> My experience is that the driver tubes affect the sound the most, then rectifier and finally power. Ymmv


 
 Not on the WA2 they don't in fact it's Power then Driver then Rectifier for WA2.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> thanks!
> 
> just put the upgraded tubes in, wow, i can only imagine how good this amp is gonna sound with beyer t1 and hd 800!!!
> 
> like absolutely zero grain, with th-900...


 
 Congrats DG!  Does this mean you opted for public transportation instead of a new car? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's been a while since I posted so I need to catch up...


----------



## hodgjy

magiccabbage said:


> Not on the WA2 they don't in fact it's Power then Driver then Rectifier for WA2.


 
  
 Same trend, sans rectifier, in my WA3.  Power tube has by far the most effect.


----------



## longbowbbs

ru4music said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > thanks!
> ...


 
 Those 596's look familiar....


----------



## ru4music

frank i said:


> Thansk for all the interest in the tubes. They are all sold now need to keep  resisting the Nikon D4S


 

 Frank, question for you:  having listened to both the WA5 and the Mono 234, how would they compare SQ wise given equal tubes (e.g. 6SN7/ 300B)?  I'm wondering if the Mono 234, for the price premium, is just giving output tube options.


----------



## ru4music

magiccabbage said:


> Not on the WA2 they don't in fact it's Power then Driver then Rectifier for WA2.


 

 X2, but keep in mind that you will want to do all three to get the most from the WA2 (it's worth it in the end!)


----------



## magiccabbage

ru4music said:


> X2, but keep in mind that you will want to do all three to get the most from the WA2 (it's worth it in the end!)


 
 yea true but i'm selling mine soon. I will have to wave goodbye - I have TS5998 JS7308 and RFTEZ80. I did wanna try - GEC6AS7G / Amperex Orange Globes with the RFT's but it looks like that wont be happening now.


----------



## Silent One

magiccabbage said:


> yea true but i'm selling mine soon. I will have to wave goodbye - I have TS5998 JS7308 and RFTEZ80. I did wanna try - GEC6AS7G / Amperex Orange Globes with the RFT's but it looks like that wont be happening now.


 
 So, what's in store?


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> So, how about driver/power tubes that pair up well with the GZ32?  Don't want to go down the 6SN7 path until I hear back from my email, would prefer not to pop my amp.  Most don't seem to care much for the 6GL7 from what I can tell, so what is the general consensus?  Do the driver tubes typically affect the sound as much as rectifiers?


 
 IMO, with the WA6 the GZ32 is thin sounding but very detailed, so I liked the 6SN7's with this rectifier tube…but I understand you don't want to use them in the 6-S/E just yet. If you e-mailed Jack about using them in the 6-S/E he is going to tell you what he told me.
 1st e-mail- "the 6SN7's shouldn't be used with the 6-S/E"
 2nd e-mail- " you would have to downgrade the 6-S/E to a 6 to use the 6SN7's"
 I believe  it is *Elmo*, but don't quote me on that, who is using the 6SN7's with no issues in his 6-S/E…but I'm still a bit concerned about putting them in my 6-S/E being this is what Jack said after 2 e-mails asking him if I could use them, or if there is any way *at all* if I could use them with the 6-S/E, so I'm just going to forget about them and use my 6FD7's and 6EW7's, and order some 6DR7 tubes in the future. I would just feel better not using them, or even trying to use them. Please keep us posted on his response to your e-mail. Thanks. I had asked* 2359glenn* who makes "adapters" for the 596 tube, while he was on the forum last night just out of curiosity being he is a "Member of the Trade" if he had an opinion or any input on this, but he did not respond to my question. I'm just trying to see how many people have tried this and do use them in the 6-S/E without issue, thats all.


----------



## Silent One

As covered by 2359glenn last night, one would need a special adapter. He fabricated my adapters to use 6SN7 series tubes for my Black _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ shown on the previous page.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

2359Glenn used to make a special adapter to allow the use of 6SN7 for the WA6-SE, it wasn't just a simple repin though, it had a capacitor and a resistor to protect the 6SN7 tubes from being burned out. 
  
 I tried them myself and it worked ok, but I still encountered some issues with the amount of power i was getting, maybe not all WA6-SE are built the same since others found them to work alot better in their amps. or maybe it was cause at the time, it was the treasure CV181z i tried and not the regular 6sn7. oh well.
  
 from the start, Jack Wu has frowned against the use of 6SN7 for WA6-SE and has said its not compatible, only the WA6 is. No real reason has ever really been given.
  
 last time i checked, there was quite a bit of debate regarding all this, so he stopped making the adapters. I'm not even sure if he will still make adapters for woo amps (596, 6F8G, etc), except maybe for a few people.
  
 for WA6-SE fans, fear not! I think a Sylvania 6FD7 will still be better than all but the best of 6SN7 on the WA6-SE


----------



## Silent One

I showed the Syl 6FD7 the door early; got a refund from WA. I enjoyed the 6SN7 experience from mid-tier to the top! 
  
 On a side note, if I may, I don't see the value of mentioning my guy being attacked. That's laundry that's better served being kept in the back on the PM side.


----------



## bonesnv

dubstep girl said:


> 2359Glenn used to make a special adapter to allow the use of 6SN7 for the WA6-SE, it wasn't just a simple repin though, it had a capacitor and a resistor to protect the 6SN7 tubes from being burned out.
> 
> I tried them myself and it worked ok, but I still encountered some issues with the amount of power i was getting, maybe not all WA6-SE are built the same since others found them to work alot better in their amps. or maybe it was cause at the time, it was the treasure CV181z i tried and not the regular 6sn7. oh well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting, wonder why the hesitation to provide the reasoning for the decision.  Oh well, will look around at the 6FD7's and see what I come up with.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Glam Bash

bonesnv said:


> So, how about driver/power tubes that pair up well with the GZ32?  Don't want to go down the 6SN7 path until I hear back from my email, would prefer not to pop my amp.  Most don't seem to care much for the 6GL7 from what I can tell, so what is the general consensus?  Do the driver tubes typically affect the sound as much as rectifiers?


 
 My approach with the WA6SE has been to find driver tubes that mate well with the headphones and then dial it in the rest of the way with the rectifier. The 6DE7 or 6FD7 that I like with the HE-500 were a no go with the Grados. The 6DR7 that work well with the Grados made the TH-600 sound closed in...BTW if you have 6GL7 adapters I would try the 6EM7, but you will need a rectifier that can tame that bass. I have a pair of japanese made Samsung 6EM7 that I like a lot. I haven't found any 6GL7 that I like(yet) either.


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> As covered by 2359glenn last night, one would need a special adapter. He fabricated my adapters to use 6SN7 series tubes for my Black _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_ shown on the previous page.


 
 I didn't realize it was your WA6-S/E, I thought it was* Elmo *who posted, and I also didn't know they where special adapter made by *2359glenn* for the 6SN7's, I thought they where regular 6SN7>6DE7 adapters which where made by him instead of Woo.


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> I didn't realize it was your WA6-S/E, I thought it was* Elmo *who posted, and I also didn't know they where special adapter made by *2359glenn* for the 6SN7's, I thought they where regular 6SN7>6DE7 adapters which where made by him instead of Woo.


 
 I guess I could have been a little more specific...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> Behold: My Black _Special Edition_ with Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plates (Oval micas) VT-231 (6SN7GT); USAF-596 (The Mighty 596!) *Adapters for both drive tubes and rectifier from 2359glenn|studio.*


----------



## Feedbacker

Wowee...
  
 Now at about 22 hours with my WA6-SE, and I've just rolled in the EML 5U4G and 6FD7s, and this thing is coming alive. The tubes have had about an hour, and already I can't believe the sound. I can't get the volume past 9 o'clock either without my K801s jumping off my head.
  
 I can hear every instrument and voice in the mix of Fleet Foxes first album...
  
 Everyone's talking about 596s. Am I right that they require an adapter for the 6SE?


----------



## Feedbacker

Yep, I see they do, from the posts above!


----------



## -kent-

First pic of my new WA6 
  
 (better pics will follow later this week)
  

  
 Fallen completely in love with them!


----------



## Rem0o

Best WA6 picture I've seen yet.


----------



## bbophead

-kent- said:


> First pic of my new WA6
> 
> (better pics will follow later this week)
> 
> ...


 
 Nice pic, very clear!  Looks like a Princess.  What are the driver/power tubes?


----------



## -kent-

@Rem0o - wow, what I nice compliment! Thank you! 
  
 @bbophead - It's the Sophia Princess with two of the standard 6DE7 (I will upgrade them sometime, but for now they are all I need)


----------



## kazsud

Just pulled the trigger on WA2 from the boards.
 Can't wait to get fully equated w/ it


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrates to both! 





  
 Own and love the WA6. (once pic!)
  
 WA2 in target site! Room for both someday.
  
 Quote:


-kent- said:


> First pic of my new WA6
> 
> (better pics will follow later this week)
> 
> Fallen completely in love with them!


 
  
  


kazsud said:


> Just pulled the trigger on WA2 from the boards.
> Can't wait to get fully equated w/ it


----------



## joseph69

Tonight I put the 596/6FD7's in the 6-S/E…not too thrilled with the mid to high frequencies…sounds a little too veiled for me, hmmm?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

joseph69 said:


> Tonight I put the 596/6FD7's in the 6-S/E…not too thrilled with the mid to high frequencies…sounds a little too veiled for me, hmmm?


 
  
 what kind of 6FD7?
  
 6FD7 / 596 was the absolute most neutral i could get the WA6-SE to sound.


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> what kind of 6FD7?
> 
> 6FD7 / 596 was the absolute most neutral i could get the WA6-SE to sound.


 
 GE-6FD7 (big bottle) from Woo, with the PS1K.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

interesting...


----------



## Silent One

I found both the EML 5U4G & USAF-596 to respond very well in the _6 Special Edition._


----------



## joseph69

dubstep girl said:


> interesting...


 
  
  


silent one said:


> I found both the EML 5U4G & USAF-596 to respond very well in the _6 Special Edition._


 
 I think it is more the 6FD7 rather than the 596. I'm liked the sound of the 596/6SN7's with the WA6…so I think tonight I'll try the 596/6DE7's because according to Woo, the 6DE7 is similar to the 6SN7…plus the 6-S/E only has about 20+hrs on it, but I'll see how this combo works out.


----------



## bbophead

joseph69 said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > interesting...
> ...


 
 Did you like the 6FD7/596 combo in the WA6?  Cause I sure do.


----------



## joseph69

bbophead said:


> Did you like the 6FD7/596 combo in the WA6?  Cause I sure do.


 
 I really didn't use the 6FD7 much at all with the 596, I used the 6SN7's. Also the PS1K's have some bass to them, so I felt the 596/6FD7 combo didn't keep the bass as well controlled as the WA6/596/6SN7…but the "stock tubes controlled the bass nicely with the 6-S/E and this headphone, but lacked in sound-stage/depth/warmth, (but still the amp is new), so I'll just keep rolling and burning-in until I find the right combo for my liking.


----------



## bfreedma

joseph69 said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > Did you like the 6FD7/596 combo in the WA6?  Cause I sure do.
> ...




I was never able to find a tube combination with the 596 that worked for me with the PS1Ks. Usually use the SP/6EW7 with the Grados

Looking forward to seeing what you settle on.


----------



## joseph69

bfreedma said:


> I was never able to find a tube combination with the 596 that worked for me with the PS1Ks. Usually use the SP/6EW7 with the Grados
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you settle on.


 
 I also have the 6EW7's, so I will try them too.
 I also have the S/P, but I may end up trying the Phillips Miniwatt GZ34 or the thinner sounding New Production Mullard 5V4G/GZ32. The PS1K's seem too be very picky with tubes in reference to having too much bass for me, but first I'm going to leave the 596 in and roll the driver/power tubes, then if I have to I'll change the rectifier tube for the PS1K's. Funny thing, but I liked the sound of the "stock" tubes with the PS1K's in reference to the mids/highs, but like I said they lacked in other areas.


----------



## kazsud

So this came today. Sounds silky smooth and musical compared to my Nuforce Dac-100.
 Liking it a lot so far!!


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> So this came today. Sounds silky smooth and musical compared to my Nuforce Dac-100.
> Liking it a lot so far!!


 
 5998's?


----------



## joseph69

Very nice!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 
 


  



 Enjoy!


----------



## joseph69

So I'm using the 596 with the 6DE7 in the 6-S/E and its a really nice combo for me, even though the 6DE7 is the "stock" tube. The mid-bass is less prominent, the mid-range is more forward and the high frequencies have a nice brilliance too them. I like this combo for the PS1K's due too6FD7's having too much mid-bass,which too me drowns out the mids/highs too much…everything sound nice and even. I would still like to purchase a pair of 6DR7's to hear with the 596 and PS1k's.


----------



## Frank I

kazsud said:


> So this came today. Sounds silky smooth and musical compared to my Nuforce Dac-100.
> Liking it a lot so far!!


 
 cool- one of the best ams Jack makes


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> 5998's?




Yup
Can't wait to acquire some tubes. 
Doesn't sound harsh at all like the stock ones I heard a while ago.


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> Yup
> Can't wait to acquire some tubes.
> Doesn't sound harsh at all like the stock ones I heard a while ago.


 
 See if you can get some GEC 6As7g's with amperex bugle boys - supposed to be amazing with HD800! Never got to try it myself and i don't think I will take the plunge before I sell mine.


----------



## magiccabbage

Kazud - Do you own a Stratus?


----------



## Clayton SF

I think that the best amp I've heard in the WooWorld has to be the WA4. That's my current bed-side setup. 
 With Black Gate caps and V-Caps. Yummy!


----------



## joseph69

That is awesome!!!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Silent One

Woo-tastic?


----------



## punit

clayton sf said:


> I think that the best amp I've heard in the WooWorld has to be the WA4. That's my current bed-side setup.
> With Black Gate caps and V-Caps. Yummy!


 
 So there is a or used to be a WA4, I used to wonder why they skipped the no.4 in the Woo line up & went from 3 to 5. What kind of amp is it , what tubes, etc ?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa4.html


----------



## Dubstep Girl

they only made a few WA4 didn't they?


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> Kazud - Do you own a Stratus?



 


Nope only heard it.


----------



## lojay

dubstep girl said:


> mostly I find its hard to find good 6SN7, on most of the amps i have tried, they introduce noise and microphonics, the tubes themselves are more sensitive overall.
> 
> im happy to say though that the WA5 right now doesn't seem to have any issues with the 6SN7/6F8G, dead silent, its amazing it can do that, the Wa22 sucked at doing that.


 
  
 Funny, I think I have a noisy pair of Tungsol BGRP that is quite microphonic. I can't hear it with the HE6 (K1K out) or SR009 (Speaker out). But it becomes quite apparent when I use the HD800 with the high impedance out.
  
 Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> well so far its definitely a step above the other Woos, the WA6-SE, WA2, and WA22, which I have owned aren't as good, even all maxed out with the best tubes you can get.
> 
> it still shares the same woo sound but its different like all the other woos. it fixes the problems the WA22 had.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Important question that would really help me: do you think it is better than the Stratus you've heard? How about some other top flight amps? 
  
 I think I agree with your observations but I have not had a chance to listen to other amps in the same price range. I think the WA5 is very transparent but I do not know if it is the last word for resolution or imaging.  
  
 What I do know is that with the U52 + Sophia Royal Princess 300Bs, the soundstage is as wide as it can be. It becomes a touch wider if I swap out the Tungsol BGRPs for the Sylvania 6SN7GTW, sacrificing bass response and airiness at the top end. I can't imagine my HD800s possibly sounding any wider than that. It is already completely out of my head. It even seems unnatural on some tracks. I did find the soundstage to be rather small when I had my stock 300Bs and rectifiers. So small that the WA5 sounded unimpressive - just a bit better than my Little Dot MkIV (for at least 6x the price). No kidding.
  
 I still think the bass quantity is lacking compared to say the HE6 driven by the EF 6. Or maybe that was bass bloom I was experiencing? But it is very tight and controlled, plenty of slam with the HE6, and picks up the low notes extremely well.
  
 Btw I haven't listened to the HD800 and HE6 much these days. The SR009 + WA5 combo is really supreme.


----------



## magiccabbage

lojay said:


> The SR009 + WA5 combo is really supreme.


 
 You mean Wes? Oh I see you have an converter for WA5, whats that like with 009?
  
  


lojay said:


> Important question that would really help me: do you think it is better than the Stratus you've heard?


 
 I don't think she has heard she Stratus yet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> Important question that would really help me: do you think it is better than the Stratus you've heard? How about some other top flight amps?
> 
> *haven't heard the stratus, but i will soon!!!!*
> 
> ...


----------



## jc9394

Dubstep Girl said:
			
		

>





> *haven't heard the stratus, but i will soon!!!!*


 
  
 DG on a roll again?


----------



## lojay

The tubes really matter. I might be getting a pair of AVVT 32Bs which might bring a different sound to the WA5.

I do find the bass satisfying enough with the SR009 and HD800. The bass of the HE6 was great with the WA5 until I bought the Toxic Cable Silver Poison. Where did the bass go? Might have to try the HE6 via speaker out or with pure copper cables.

The Woo WEE doesn't seem to add a flavour of its own. The WA5 driving the SR009 still sounds like the WA5. Sound changes after tube swaps are noticeable via the WEE. But I do find the imaging and soundstaging less impressive and natural with the SR009 compared to HD800 I surmise because this is still not a perfect pairing. I'm awaiting my BHSE just for that.

DG I take it that you like the WA5 a lot more than your previous Woo amps? Would love to know how it compares with the Stratus (when you get it/ hear it)

Happy listening )


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> See if you can get some GEC 6As7g's with amperex bugle boys - supposed to be amazing with HD800! Never got to try it myself and i don't think I will take the plunge before I sell mine.



 


They are on my very short list. I just bought vintage brimar ez80


----------



## bonesnv

Well, the NOS Mullard GZ32 came in today from Upscale and I have been listening to it for a few hours now with the stock 6DE7's, what a difference between the Shug stock rectifier.  Everything DG said about was pretty spot on, it added that sound of what I consider "tube" when I think tube sound.  I don't know enough of the fancy lingo just yet to describe the sound exactly, but for reference I compare tube sound to my old tube guitar amps that I had growing up, it's just something you seem to recognize when you hear it but never quite been able to put my finger on the best way to describe it.  For the cost, planning on buying another 1-2 for backup purposes.
 Now to wait for my driver tube orders and try some different combinations out; but more importantly, time to enjoy some music....


----------



## bigshuse

I apologize in advance for the selfish post, but I have a beautiful WA6-SE with extra tubes for sale if anyone is interested.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/719258/woo-audio-wa6-se-sophia-princess-upgraded-tubes-price-drop
  
 Carry on Wooians. I will miss being one of you (I'll probably be back). Cheers!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> The tubes really matter. I might be getting a pair of AVVT 32Bs which might bring a different sound to the WA5.
> 
> I do find the bass satisfying enough with the SR009 and HD800. The bass of the HE6 was great with the WA5 until I bought the Toxic Cable Silver Poison. Where did the bass go? Might have to try the HE6 via speaker out or with pure copper cables.
> 
> ...





Ah ok, yeah was just curious on the wee/wa5 for stats, seems interesting, i know ive seen it reviewed on here a while ago too.

Lol Stratus purchase is a while away, gotta rebuy headphones, but I think I'll get an opportunity to listen to it soon. The WA5 right now is on another level over all the other woos. it sounds like a woo, but at that same time it "woos" me away with how good it sounds! its transparent, something the other woos lack, and it just seems to do alot of things right, i hope i am just as satisfied with t1/ hd 800 combination, otherwise, its stratus or a wa2 again.




bonesnv said:


> Well, the NOS Mullard GZ32 came in today from Upscale and I have been listening to it for a few hours now with the stock 6DE7's, what a difference between the Shug stock rectifier.  Everything DG said about was pretty spot on, it added that sound of what I consider "tube" when I think tube sound.  I don't know enough of the fancy lingo just yet to describe the sound exactly, but for reference I compare tube sound to my old tube guitar amps that I had growing up, it's just something you seem to recognize when you hear it but never quite been able to put my finger on the best way to describe it.  For the cost, planning on buying another 1-2 for backup purposes.
> Now to wait for my driver tube orders and try some different combinations out; but more importantly, time to enjoy some music....





Im waiting for a pair of these as well, for my wa5. price will eventually go up on these, as they already have. upscale audio doesn't realize how many sales they've made on them cause of me. LOL, their 5r4gy they advertise so much is garbage however...


----------



## bonesnv

dubstep girl said:


> Im waiting for a pair of these as well, for my wa5. price will eventually go up on these, as they already have. upscale audio doesn't realize how many sales they've made on them cause of me. LOL, their 5r4gy they advertise so much is garbage however...


 
  
 I had one of those in the shopping cart until I read yours and several other reviews about them and that they didn't quite meet those glowing expectations that he set with his comments.  Sometimes the hype-o-meter needs to be toned back just a bit, because they came off as to good to be true honestly with what they were being compared against.


----------



## Fugue

Oh my, the Woo WA6 arrived today, and man is it sweet! It has a far richer overall tone, more detail, and a wider/deeper sound stage compared to the Oppo's output. I'm quite a happy camper!


----------



## bpcans

Fugue, congratulations and welcome to the WA6 owners club.


----------



## musicman59

bonesnv said:


> I had one of those in the shopping cart until I read yours and several other reviews about them and that they didn't quite meet those glowing expectations that he set with his comments.  Sometimes the hype-o-meter needs to be toned back just a bit, because they came off as to good to be true honestly with what they were being compared against.


 
 They used to sell the Brimar 5R4GY and those are very good. I bought a pair of those from them and before the 596 they were my favorite but I have not seen them in their site for sometime.


----------



## magiccabbage

fugue said:


> Oh my, the Woo WA6 arrived today, and man is it sweet! It has a far richer overall tone, more detail, and a wider/deeper sound stage compared to the Oppo's output. I'm quite a happy camper!


 
 welcome to the woo family


----------



## MickeyVee

Ditto & congrats!  Stock tubes? Love my WA6!
 Quote:


fugue said:


> Oh my, the Woo WA6 arrived today, and man is it sweet! It has a far richer overall tone, more detail, and a wider/deeper sound stage compared to the Oppo's output. I'm quite a happy camper!


 
  


magiccabbage said:


> welcome to the woo family


----------



## Fugue

Thanks, everyone, and yes, I'm using the stock tubes. Maybe I'll request the Sophia Princess for my birthday in November!


----------



## bbophead

fugue said:


> Oh my, the Woo WA6 arrived today, and man is it sweet! It has a far richer overall tone, more detail, and a wider/deeper sound stage compared to the Oppo's output. I'm quite a happy camper!


 
 Welcome new Wooian!  Listen long and prosper.


----------



## joseph69

fugue said:


> Oh my, the Woo WA6 arrived today, and man is it sweet! It has a far richer overall tone, more detail, and a wider/deeper sound stage compared to the Oppo's output. I'm quite a happy camper!


 
 Congratulations on your WA6, enjoy!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

musicman59 said:


> They used to sell the Brimar 5R4GY and those are very good. I bought a pair of those from them and before the 596 they were my favorite but I have not seen them in their site for sometime.


 
  
  
 out of all the 5R4GY i've tried, the Brimar is by far the best and the definitive version of the 5R4GY tube type.  (I do not like RCA or Philips 5R4GY).
 Its too slow sounding for me, but its actually a very nice tube.


----------



## punit

bigshuse said:


> Carry on Wooians. I will miss being one of you (I'll probably be back). Cheers!


 
 Hmmm... this got me thinking. What might be a better name for Woo owners, please suggest , I nominate:
  

Woozies


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Brimar did some very nice GZ32s. The whole family of GZ32, 33, 34 and 37 are all fine rectifiers. Another one to look out for  if you like U52 type valves are 53KUs.


----------



## bonesnv

Started my work morning today listening to Friday Night in San Francisco, trying to do some reports.
  
 These words here and maybe one or two other sentence are all I have been able to actually accomplish since I got here and hit play.  The sound on this thing just gets better and better the more it all burns in.  I feel like I am sitting in a chair right next to the them listening to them play.  
  
 It's really making me want to look at a WA5 for home, although every time I see that 300B amp on Glenn's thread, my intrigue factor goes up just a bit more.  That amp is so clean looking and I'm a sucker for functionally designed simplicity.
  
 Thanks again to everyone in this thread and the others who have given advice for all this stuff, ya'll put in a lot of effort to write up everything you have so that people new to this like myself have a very good starting point of reference.  Getting to hear music, like I haven't in a very very long time.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> Started my work morning today listening to Friday Night in San Francisco, trying to do some reports.
> 
> These words here and maybe one or two other sentence are all I have been able to actually accomplish since I got here and hit play.  The sound on this thing just gets better and better the more it all burns in.  I feel like I am sitting in a chair right next to the them listening to them play.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sure Glenn's amps are built to a high standard, but Woo's builds are off the charts, IMHO.  At least it is for the lowly WA6 that I own.


----------



## bpcans

bbophead said:


> I'm sure Glenn's amps are built to a high standard, but Woo's builds are off the charts, IMHO.  At least it is for the lowly WA6 that I own.


 
 I too am a lowly WA6 owner. The struggle against upgradeyetis is a daily battle. Listening to good music seems to quell the symptoms most of the time. Waiting on the delivery of the Mighty 596.


----------



## bbophead

bpcans said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure Glenn's amps are built to a high standard, but Woo's builds are off the charts, IMHO.  At least it is for the lowly WA6 that I own.
> ...


 
 I don't think you'll be disappointed and besides, it has great bling.


----------



## magiccabbage

bbophead said:


> I'm sure Glenn's amps are built to a high standard, but Woo's builds are off the charts, IMHO.  At least it is for the lowly WA6 that I own.


 
 The woo's are sexier in a way but the insides of the Glenn amps are where the real business is done. Glenn only uses the best of parts - for example - Lundahl transformers in the 300b amps he makes are the best you can get. 
  
  
 Dubstep girl and diminches both live in Chicago they shoot do a shoot out between the Glenn 300b and WA5  ¬
  
  
  
  
 Would be pretty cool! One hell of a write up.


----------



## bbophead

magiccabbage said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure Glenn's amps are built to a high standard, but Woo's builds are off the charts, IMHO.  At least it is for the lowly WA6 that I own.
> ...


 
 No doubt.  
  
 Perhaps Glenn makes a really fine all-tube $700 HP amp like the WA6.  Yes?
  
 That would be even more interesting for me since I can't afford the "best".


----------



## magiccabbage

bbophead said:


> No doubt.
> 
> Perhaps Glenn makes a really fine all-tube $700 HP amp like the WA6.  Yes?
> 
> That would be even more interesting for me since I can't afford the "best".


 
 well he makes An OTL cheaper than the WA2 but more versatile and  some prefer its sound to the WA2. 
  
 Glenn will make any kind of customized amp if asked nicely and if he isn't too busy. Im sure he could accommodate you. It helps though if you know what you want or their abouts. He can advise you on tube combo's. 
  
  
 Ask on the Glenn thread about the versatility of the Glenn OTL. It will drive most headphones including planars. 
  
  
 I don't want to de-rail this thread so i will stop talking about glenn amps. PM me if you want.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> The woo's are sexier in a way but the insides of the Glenn amps are where the real business is done. Glenn only uses the best of parts - for example - Lundahl transformers in the 300b amps he makes are the best you can get.
> 
> 
> Dubstep girl and diminches both live in Chicago they shoot do a shoot out between the Glenn 300b and WA5  ¬
> ...





yes!!


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure Glenn's amps are built to a high standard, but Woo's builds are off the charts, IMHO.  At least it is for the lowly WA6 that I own.
> ...


 
 dminches lives on the East Coast near Philadelphia....That is a bit of a drive for a shoot out....


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> dminches lives on the East Coast near Philadelphia....That is a bit of a drive for a shoot out....


 
 HaHa - how did I think he lived in Chicago? I must of got him mixed up with Skylab. Oops


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > dminches lives on the East Coast near Philadelphia....That is a bit of a drive for a shoot out....
> ...


 
 Indeed...I actually had a nice get together with both of them at Axpona in April. dminches came in for the show and we spent some time talking audio. Good times!


----------



## TontNZ

Hi All
  
 I'm waiting for the manufacture and delivery of my WA5-LE (with the premium bits).  I'm going to be using a digital only front end, so I'm looking at the following DAC's:
  
 - Chord Hugo
 - NAD M51
 - Benchmark DAC2 L
  
 Do any of you have experience with any of these DAC's and their synergy (or not) with the WA5's?  The only one of these DAC's in New Zealand is the NAD M51, if I buy any of the others, I'll be buying blind.
  
 If it's more appropriate to ask this question in a different thread, please point me in the right direction.
  
 Cheers - Peter


----------



## bpcans

tontnz said:


> Hi All
> 
> I'm waiting for the manufacture and delivery of my WA5-LE (with the premium bits).  I'm going to be using a digital only front end, so I'm looking at the following DAC's:
> 
> ...


There's only one answer if your wallet can stand the assault. It's the Chord Hugo for sure. I've seen it, held it, and listened to it. In a word, amazing!


----------



## TontNZ

bpcans said:


> There's only one answer if your wallet can stand the assault. It's the Chord Hugo for sure. I've seen it, held it, and listened to it. In a word, amazing!


 
 My wallet definitely can't stand the assault!  I started out a few months ago with the intention of spending $500 on an amp for my HD600's.  That's really where the trouble started, I discovered the WA7's, then the WA5-LE's!  I used to have some savings - not any more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Have you heard any of the others and when you listened to the Hugo, were you using it to drive your headphones?


----------



## jc9394

tontnz said:


> Hi All
> 
> I'm waiting for the manufacture and delivery of my WA5-LE (with the premium bits).  I'm going to be using a digital only front end, so I'm looking at the following DAC's:
> 
> ...




Don't get the benchmark, too clinical. I have success with PS Audio PWD and like Wyred for Sound DAC2 when my friend got one.


----------



## bpcans

tontnz said:


> My wallet definitely can't stand the assault!  I started out a few months ago with the intention of spending $500 on an amp for my HD600's.  That's really where the trouble started, I discovered the WA7's, then the WA5-LE's!  I used to have some savings - not any more :eek:
> 
> Have you heard any of the others and when you listened to the Hugo, were you using it to drive your headphones?


The Hugo is definitely one of those gotta haves that requires forethought when it comes to procurement. I used it to drive hp's just like mine with my iPhone 5s as the source. I compared it to the DACit, the Regal DAC, and the Benchmark DAC 1. Honestly, there was no comparison. How do you like the WA5-LE?


----------



## TontNZ

jc9394 said:


> Don't get the benchmark, too clinical. I have success with PS Audio PWD and like Wyred for Sound DAC2 when my friend got one.


 
 Thanks for the response.  I see the Wyred for sound is a tad more affordable than the PS Audio PWD.  I'll investigate the latter and add it to my list if it's a good fit.  I guess like of whole lot of other valve amp owners I favour musicality over straight accuracy if there's a trade-off.


----------



## TontNZ

bpcans said:


> The Hugo is definitely one of those gotta haves that requires forethought when it comes to procurement. I used it to drive hp's just like mine with my iPhone 5s as the source. I compared it to the DACit, the Regal DAC, and the Benchmark DAC 1. Honestly, there was no comparison. How do you like the WA5-LE?


 
 I'm still waiting on them.  I've not heard anything from Woo as to when it will be built and shipped since I placed the order.  My only criticism of Woo Audio is that the only emails answered by them are the ones where I order something!!  Any email I send them asking them a question just gets ignored!  Still, I'm looking forward to having a tube amp again.  My rationale for buying the WA5-LE was that I wanted an amplifier that I would not have to replace because I outgrew it.  I don't imagine that I'll outgrow the WA5-LE, if I did I'd never be able to afford anything better anyway!  So I've bought the best that I can afford.
  
 When you say "The Hugo is definitely one of those gotta haves that requires forethought when it comes to procurement.", is this purely on cost grounds or did you find the sound polarising - in the love it or hate it way?


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Don't get the benchmark, too clinical. I have success with PS Audio PWD and like Wyred for Sound DAC2 when my friend got one.


 

 JC have you heard the Lampizator ?
  
 http://www.lampizator.eu/newdac/lampizator/Lampizator_DAC.html


----------



## bpcans

tontnz said:


> I'm still waiting on them.  I've not heard anything from Woo as to when it will be built and shipped since I placed the order.  My only criticism of Woo Audio is that the only emails answered by them are the ones where I order something!!  Any email I send them asking them a question just gets ignored!  Still, I'm looking forward to having a tube amp again.  My rationale for buying the WA5-LE was that I wanted an amplifier that I would not have to replace because I outgrew it.  I don't imagine that I'll outgrow the WA5-LE, if I did I'd never be able to afford anything better anyway!  So I've bought the best that I can afford.
> 
> When you say "The Hugo is definitely one of those gotta haves that requires forethought when it comes to procurement.", is this purely on cost grounds or did you find the sound polarising - in the love it or hate it way?


 
 Dear sir, my response is not solely based on the Hugo's cost, though its price is definitely a consideration. I'm trying to say that everyone hears things differently. What sounds good to me might not sound the same to you. Audiophile quality amps, dacs, hp's, and cables can cost a lot of cake. I just think it's prudent to research things thoroughly, thats all.


----------



## TontNZ

bpcans said:


> Dear sir, my response is not solely based on the Hugo's cost, though its price is definitely a consideration. I'm trying to say that everyone hears things differently. What sounds good to me might not sound the same to you. Audiophile quality amps, dacs, hp's, and cables can cost a lot of cake. I just think it's prudent to research things thoroughly, thats all.


 
 Thanks for the clarification.  You're dead right the cost of high(ish) end audio equipment (especially imported into NZ , which generally adds another 22% in addition to shipping), is ruinous!  That's why I'm trying to solicit opinions of those that have had exposure to equipment I've only read about. Again, especially those that I have (or hope to have) equipment in common with, ears and personal preferences not withstanding.
  
 At the end of the day it all helps me form impressions and opinions about equipment that I'd like in my system.
  
 So thanks for chipping in, all the best - Peter


----------



## lojay

tontnz said:


> I'm still waiting on them.  I've not heard anything from Woo as to when it will be built and shipped since I placed the order.  My only criticism of Woo Audio is that the only emails answered by them are the ones where I order something!!  Any email I send them asking them a question just gets ignored!  Still, I'm looking forward to having a tube amp again.  My rationale for buying the WA5-LE was that I wanted an amplifier that I would not have to replace because I outgrew it.  I don't imagine that I'll outgrow the WA5-LE, if I did I'd never be able to afford anything better anyway!  So I've bought the best that I can afford.
> 
> When you say "The Hugo is definitely one of those gotta haves that requires forethought when it comes to procurement.", is this purely on cost grounds or did you find the sound polarising - in the love it or hate it way?




Speaking from experience, I doubt that this would be the end of your quest. I can tell you that my WA5 sounded quite terrible with stock tubes. Well not terrible terrible but definitely disappointing as it was not much better than my $500 Little Dot Mk-IV. Some gurus on this forum have reported in the earlier days that the WA5 did not sound impressive during meets. This is because I think Woo designed the WA5 expecting you to tube-roll and these Headfiers were listening to it stock or with poor tube combinations. To some, including myself, tube rolling can be an engaging and fun exercise, hearing your amp grow or sound like different amps. The WA5-LE provides hundreds of combinations of tubes. Unfortunately (and some are put off for this), each of the driver, rectifier and power tubes costs an arm and a leg (check out the prices of Western Electric 300B NOS from eBay, 1950s vintage, they are more expensive than the amp itself), and even when you upgrade all the tubes (see my signature for my pairing, which I admit is really quite sublime), you will live in fear that the competition sounds better with much less fuss in arriving at that result. 

Right now, I am looking at the Eddie Current offerings and I have already placed my order for the BHSE. I am holding on to the WA5 because it sounds very nice now after the tube rolling and because it is such a good all rounder, ie it can drive high efficiency speakers, HE-6 and SR009 as well as or arguably better than the HD800. 

Some of its sonic characteristics with the premium tubes include a slightly warm tone while remaining transparent, detailed, fast dynamics and transients, and stunning soundstage and imaging. It's tonality depends heavily on the driver tubes (night and day difference!) and its soundstage on mainly the 300B and rectifiers. I think is not particularly musical or euphonic but the tubes may add some of that tubieness if desired. It is quite weak on bass and you will be more satisfied with an SS amp if you are a bass head. Its treble can sound etched at times if you pair it with a Sabre type of digital DAC or something like the Benchmark.

Unless you have the desire and the means to continue your lifelong journey of upgrades and sidegrades, the only solution is to buy whatever you can afford in your budget and live happily with it. Most sane people end up doing just that, knowing that the increase in sound quality from a $500 amp to a $6000 amp is probably only 30% at best. I am happily in the borderline insane category.

As usual, the greatest improvement in sound comes from your headphones.

YMMV.


----------



## bpcans

tontnz said:


> So thanks for chipping in, all the best - Peter


Your welcome sir, not a problem.


----------



## lojay

You can try the Emotiva DC-1 for great performance, at less than $1K shipped it is the ultimate bargain. You can check out GaryinMD's excellent midrange DAC shoot out for details. I surmise it will be better than the Wyred4Sound DAC for less than a fraction of the cost. I have done blind AB tests with the Naim DAC V1 which in turn was ABed with the Benchmark DAC2. The Emotiva had better imaging, details, tonality and a more delicate sound but was slightly more edgy on the vocals. Neither Naim nor Emotiva were too harsh or clinical sounding. The Benchmark was but it could do DSD very well.

The Emotiva has rather sub-par USB implementation so it is prone to dirty USB power. You will need a dedicated PC or even better, clean USB power via a top end USB cable or the Audiophellio2 with pure power / Off Ramp 5 as transport. 

Ps I have found that Jack usually replies my questions within a day or two. Not too bad for a family company.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> JC have you heard the Lampizator ?
> 
> http://www.lampizator.eu/newdac/lampizator/Lampizator_DAC.html




No, I'm done with dac for now. Still loving the PWD.


----------



## wongtonypr

Can anyone compare the WA5-le and the studio six to drive the hd800?
 I only tried the studio six before, can they consider to be the 'same level'?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> Speaking from experience, I doubt that this would be the end of your quest*. I can tell you that my WA5 sounded quite terrible with stock tubes*. Well not terrible terrible but definitely disappointing as it was not much better than my $500 Little Dot Mk-IV. *Some gurus on this forum have reported in the earlier days that the WA5 did not sound impressive during meets. This is because I think Woo designed the WA5 expecting you to tube-roll and these Headfiers were listening to it stock or with poor tube combinations. *To some, including myself, tube rolling can be an engaging and fun exercise, hearing your amp grow or sound like different amps. The WA5-LE provides hundreds of combinations of tubes. Unfortunately (and some are put off for this), each of the driver, rectifier and power tubes costs an arm and a leg (check out the prices of Western Electric 300B NOS from eBay, 1950s vintage, they are more expensive than the amp itself), and even when you upgrade all the tubes (see my signature for my pairing, which I admit is really quite sublime), you will live in fear that the competition sounds better with much less fuss in arriving at that result.


 
  
 all woo amps are like this I think.
  
 the WA6-SE is veiled and congested with grain with stock tubes, the WA2 is too muddy with stock tubes, the WA22 is colored and has a weird treble bite to it with stock tubes, a somewhat shouty midrange similar to WA6-SE, and the WA5 stock sounded pretty bad too, the detail and presence was there, but the sound was still unrefined, especially the treble.
  
 woos are meant to be tube rolled and upgraded. I really wish jack would put decent/semi-premium tubes at least when he displays his amps at the meets. As you said, I think many of these bad impressions people have are partly due to this.


----------



## kazsud

dubstep girl said:


> all woo amps are like this I think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




+1


----------



## lojay

wongtonypr said:


> Can anyone compare the WA5-le and the studio six to drive the hd800?
> I only tried the studio six before, can they consider to be the 'same level'?


 
  
 I have, in my 15 minute audition at a local hifi shop, the WA5 (and by parity of reasoning, the WA5-LE) is in a different league from the Studio Six with the right tube combination. I felt it sounded closed-in and lacked exquisite details in the nuances which the WA5 delivers in spades. The WA5 sounded warmer and was more 'delicate'. The Studio Six was more solid statey. Might be a bit of an unfair comparison because the Studio Six may also sound better with upgraded tubes. 
  


dubstep girl said:


> all woo amps are like this I think.
> 
> the WA6-SE is veiled and congested with grain with stock tubes, the WA2 is too muddy with stock tubes, the WA22 is colored and has a weird treble bite to it with stock tubes, a somewhat shouty midrange similar to WA6-SE, and the WA5 stock sounded pretty bad too, the detail and presence was there, but the sound was still unrefined, especially the treble.
> 
> woos are meant to be tube rolled and upgraded. I really wish jack would put decent/semi-premium tubes at least when he displays his amps at the meets. As you said, I think many of these bad impressions people have are partly due to this.


 
  
 +1
  
 If you buy Woo amps you better be aware of this. The WA5 stock tubes I had were bottom of the line Shuguang 300Bs and 5U4Gs with a horribly microphonic GE 6SN7. Some say (jokingly) that Woo includes these tubes just to let you know the amp works. I understand why Woo does this though - a company cannot give any warranty on NOS tubes and unfortunately for the tubes Woo selects for most of its amps, NOS vintage tubes sound much better than modern production ones. It has to balance reliability with reasonably decent sound. But I agree with DG that Woo should put in some top end NOS tubes in its amps during meets.


----------



## wongtonypr

Can u plz compare the wa5 and studio six in stock tubes?
 I am thinking to purchase either one of them but the studio six is a little bit out of my budget..
 Also, do u think the chord hugo can pair nicely with the wa5?
 I tried to pair the hugo with the ss but it seems to be a bad combination..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> *I have, in my 15 minute audition at a local hifi shop, the WA5 (and by parity of reasoning, the WA5-LE) is in a different league from the Studio Six with the right tube combination. I felt it sounded closed-in and lacked exquisite details in the nuances which the WA5 delivers in spades. The WA5 sounded warmer and was more 'delicate'. *The Studio Six was more solid statey. Might be a bit of an unfair comparison because the Studio Six may also sound better with upgraded tubes.
> 
> 
> +1
> ...


 
  


wongtonypr said:


> Can u plz compare the wa5 and studio six in stock tubes?
> I am thinking to purchase either one of them but the studio six is a little bit out of my budget..
> Also, do u think the chord hugo can pair nicely with the wa5?
> I tried to pair the hugo with the ss but it seems to be a bad combination..


 
  
  
 im gonna have to agree with his comparison, from people i trust, i've heard mixed things about Studio Six, whereas I hear alot of praise for WA5 and I believe it now. I don't think any upgraded tubes would help the Studio Six out that much, and the Wa5 sounds a tons better with upgraded tubes.
  
 If you are buying WA5 or considering it but can't afford upgraded tubes (at least $500-600 for mid-level tubes, not necessary to spend thousands on ultra premium NOS tubes), you might be better off with a WA22 or WA2 and some nice NOS tubes.
  
  
 BTW just rolled in my pair of Mullard CV593 into the WA5, omg I keep getting more and more impressed by this tube. Honestly, its 95% of the way to the U52, the sound is pretty much the same, beautiful euphonic tonal balance and great all around at everything else, those "delicate nuances" come out a little more on the U52, but this is no worse anywhere else.
  
 the bass is really nice too, just enough and clean enough


----------



## wongtonypr

I think I will switch tubes after pairing the dac.
 Any suggestions on dac to pair with the WA5 and hd800?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no as i haven't even heard WA5 and HD 800 myself, gotta buy an Hd 800 in the coming weeks, hopefully i can wait another month since i'm working afternoons midnights the next couple weeks and them i'm on shift for like 2 weeks straight, it can wait


----------



## joseph69

I'm sure many here on this thread have owned the WA6 then upgraded to the 6-S/E…has anyone found the WA6 to have a more tube like sound compared to the 6-S/E regardless of the tubes, just the amps sound itself. Thanks.


----------



## TontNZ

lojay said:


> Speaking from experience, I doubt that this would be the end of your quest. I can tell you that my WA5 sounded quite terrible with stock tubes. Well not terrible terrible but definitely disappointing as it was not much better than my $500 Little Dot Mk-IV. Some gurus on this forum have reported in the earlier days that the WA5 did not sound impressive during meets. This is because I think Woo designed the WA5 expecting you to tube-roll and these Headfiers were listening to it stock or with poor tube combinations. To some, including myself, tube rolling can be an engaging and fun exercise, hearing your amp grow or sound like different amps. The WA5-LE provides hundreds of combinations of tubes. Unfortunately (and some are put off for this), each of the driver, rectifier and
> Some of its sonic characteristics with the premium tubes include a slightly warm tone while remaining transparent, detailed, fast dynamics and transients, and stunning soundstage and imaging. It's tonality depends heavily on the driver tubes (night and day difference!) and its soundstage on mainly the 300B and rectifiers. I think is not particularly musical or euphonic but the tubes may add some of that tubieness if desired. It is quite weak on bass and you will be more satisfied with an SS amp if you are a bass head. Its treble can sound etched at times if you pair it with a Sabre type of digital DAC or something like the Benchmark.
> 
> YMMV.


 
 Thanks for the information on how the different tubes type (driver//power/rectifier) affect the different aspects of the sound.  When I get round to tube rolling, I'll focus on the driver tubes first.
  
 I've lived with valve amps before, driving speakers rather than headphones (a Conrad Johnson MV50 and an Esoteric Audio Research E.A.R. 519 by Tim de Paravacini (awesome amp currently in storage)).  So it will be nice to get to know some new old friends.
  
Thanks again for your input - Peter


----------



## bonesnv

Decided on a new setup at home after getting this black cabinet from a friend who was moving, I think all the black looks sleek.  Unfortunately, no more Woo at work, but I'll get to enjoy this setup much more, without interruptions from people.  Listening to Eric Clapton Unplugged as I write this... so relaxing.
  
 "Mighty" 596 on the way as well (impulse buy, it looks awesome, lol) so I should have all of my drivers, adapters and rectifiers arriving next week, going to make for a fun weekend rolling tubes.


----------



## Redcarmoose

lojay said:


> I have, in my 15 minute audition at a local hifi shop, the WA5 (and by parity of reasoning, the WA5-LE) is in a different league from the Studio Six with the right tube combination. I felt it sounded closed-in and lacked exquisite details in the nuances which the WA5 delivers in spades. The WA5 sounded warmer and was more 'delicate'. The Studio Six was more solid statey. Might be a bit of an unfair comparison because the Studio Six may also sound better with upgraded tubes.
> 
> 
> +1
> ...


 
  
  
 http://www.sophiaelectric.eu/us/b/300b-globe-mesh/0?r=155
 I upgraded to the option 1-300b Globe Mesh Plate.
  
  
 I have spent some time at a meet with the HD 800 and Woo 5 LE. The HD 800s were nice. I'm not really a HD 800 guy so maybe not the member to respond here. I did also try the HD 800s with an after market cord. There was actually a slight improvement. I didn't think an extra $500 cord price was worth it.lol
  
  
 The Woo 5 LE and HD 800 is a very, very clear and analytical presentation. I maybe should try it again as that is the new sound signature I am moving towards. Getting away from warm and going to a ruler flat frequency response which the combo guarantees.


----------



## prosperone

Brothers and Sisters of the Woo,  I am saddened to say that I am parting with my mint condition maxed WA5. All of his many glass accouterments will also be accompanying him.   Please help find him a good home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721043/woo-audio-wa5-maxed#post_10592459


----------



## jc9394

prosperone said:


> Brothers and Sisters of the Woo,  I am saddened to say that I am parting with my mint condition maxed WA5. All of his many glass accouterments will also be accompanying him.   Please help find him a good home
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Surprised no taker yet, if I have as much time as last year it is mine...


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> all woo amps are like this I think.
> 
> the WA6-SE is veiled and congested with grain with stock tubes, the WA2 is too muddy with stock tubes, the WA22 is colored and has a weird treble bite to it with stock tubes, a somewhat shouty midrange similar to WA6-SE, and the WA5 stock sounded pretty bad too, the detail and presence was there, but the sound was still unrefined, especially the treble.
> 
> woos are meant to be tube rolled and upgraded. *I really wish jack would put decent/semi-premium tubes at least when he displays his amps at the meets. As you said, I think many of these bad impressions people have are partly due to this.*


 
  
 +1.  Well said DSG!
 I was one of those people.


----------



## Silent One

I've long understood the WooAudio value price based model. It allows customer affordable entry. And for those with "jc9394's Toy budget" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 those members can take their desires to the next level.


----------



## Silent One

koiloco said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > all woo amps are like this I think.
> ...


 





 I never understood this. Formerly worked in the trade and Winter/Summer CES shows where companies want put their best foot forward. Show what's possible and bring it!


----------



## Clayton SF

My gosh, if a builder wants to sell their amps at a premium, then for gosh sakes, sell your amp with premium tubes and make those your stock tubes. Showcase your amp with tubes that make you proud of your design efforts and nothing less.
  
 Lamborghini doesn't outfit their "Lamborghini Huracan," with sub-par wheels on it. Their stock wheels are the car as well. The same should be with amps and their stock tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> My gosh, if a builder wants to sell their amps at a premium, then for gosh sakes, sell your amp with premium tubes and make those your stock tubes. Showcase your amp with tubes that make you proud of your design efforts and nothing less.
> 
> Lamborghini doesn't outfit their "Lamborghini Huracan," with sub-par wheels on it. Their stock wheels are the car as well. The same should be with amps and their stock tubes.


 
 but that wouldn't encourage you to roll tubes if you already have the best ones. Maybe having a maxed out option when buying would be better.


----------



## Silent One

@ Clayton SF
  






 Absolutely!


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> but that wouldn't encourage you to roll tubes if you already have the best ones. Maybe having a maxed out option when buying would be better.


 

 Well there are many great sounding tubes that a builder can make their stock reference tube other the the poor ones that people claim are in their newly-acquired amps. It is after all a subjective call. But the general consensus is that the amps are supplied with poor tubes. I still roll tubes. Right now I'm replaced my Mullard GZ34 with RCA 5Y4G and am happy with the sound (for this evening's Miles Davis session.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Maybe I'm naive but I didn't mind my stock tubes. Before upgrading tubes I messed with other ways to gain SQ. 


It is a little sad when you have the expensive amp with the cheapest tubes known to man? Lol


Woo is just trying to keep retail cost down and still offers tube upgrades upon purchase for those who want to spend.


----------



## bbophead

redcarmoose said:


> Maybe I'm naive but I didn't mind my stock tubes. Before upgrading tubes I messed with other ways to gain SQ.
> 
> 
> It is a little sad when you have the expensive amp with the cheapest tubes known to man? Lol
> ...


 
 I agree.  If you start out with the best (read expensive) tubes, then your product is in a whole different price bracket.  Besides, not everyone wants to fiddle with tubes, believe it or not.  I know, heresy.


----------



## wongtonypr

Have anyone tried to pair the chord hugo with the wa5 drivng the hd800?


----------



## bpcans

wongtonypr said:


> Have anyone tried to pair the chord hugo with the wa5 drivng the hd800?


Yes, do tell someone. Inquiring minds would like to know.


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> but that wouldn't encourage you to roll tubes if you already have the best ones. Maybe having a maxed out option when buying would be better.




They already have that don't they? Every amp listing includes Jacks suggested tube upgrades.


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> They already have that don't they? Every amp listing includes Jacks suggested tube upgrades.


 
 Yea but they are nowhere near the best options. Maybe its not possible to have a stock of "best" tubes for woo audio


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> Yea but they are nowhere near the best options. Maybe its not possible to have a stock of "best" tubes for woo audio


 

 Plus, I'm not sure who would decide which tubes are best. The sound signatures that I listen for and prefer are most probably different from yours and one of the really nice things that I've found about the Woo amps is that you can tune them to your own preferences. TS5998 or GEC6AS7G? USAF596 or WE422A? Defends on the mood I'm in and how much Lagavulin is left. Perhaps the best Jack can do is offer a general, all around upgrade and leave it at that.


----------



## Amphibica

Today I join the club as a proud owner of a Woo Audio WA6-SE!


----------



## joseph69

amphibica said:


> Today I join the club as a proud owner of a Woo Audio WA6-SE!


 
 Very nice, welcome!


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> Very nice, welcome!


 
 +1


----------



## ninjapirate9901

amphibica said:


> Today I join the club as a proud owner of a Woo Audio WA6-SE!


 
  
 Me to


----------



## Amphibica

I have an EML 274b tube on order. I've read a lot about upgrading the driver tubes, but I'm bewildered by all the options.


----------



## kkcc

bbophead said:


> I agree.  If you start out with the best (read expensive) tubes, then your product is in a whole different price bracket.  Besides, not everyone wants to fiddle with tubes, believe it or not.  I know, heresy.




Yes I agree taking the premium tubes out of the amp purchase price seems logical and it would definitely be a harder decision for me to get the wa22 at $2700 with the premium tubes Woo offered than the $1995 msrp.

Having said that, I'm also curious how does the "recommended" tube upgrades combination from Woo sound on the wa22 other than that the are probably overpriced?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

kkcc said:


> Yes I agree taking the premium tubes out of the amp purchase price seems logical and it would definitely be a harder decision for me to get the wa22 at $2700 with the premium tubes Woo offered than the $1995 msrp.
> 
> Having said that, I'm also curious how does the "recommended" tube upgrades combination from Woo sound on the wa22 other than that the are probably overpriced?


 
  
  
 I would not recommend the WA22 with the upgraded tubes jack offers
  
 i find the tung sol 5998 better than his tung sol 7236 offering. also the 7236 isn't worth $160 a pair imo.
  
 the 6sn7 are overepriced, you can find other nos tubes that are much better for the price.
  
 sophia is good but theres alot of really nice ones out there for much much less, you could spend like 300$ and get decent tubes over the woo audio offerings.
  
 buying the recommended ones from woo would be overpriced, the sound quality would be much better than stock, but you can still do much better with $700 budget for upgraded tubes.


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> I would not recommend the WA22 with the upgraded tubes jack offers
> 
> i find the tung sol 5998 better than his tung sol 7236 offering. also the 7236 isn't worth $160 a pair imo.
> 
> ...


 

 +1
  
 I have the following tubes for my WA22. If a WA22 owner wants any info about how any particular combination from the tubes below sound on WA22, please pm me.
  
*Power:*
 TS 5998
 TS 7236
 GEC 6AS7G
 GEC 6080
 WE421A
 Mullard 6080
  
*Driver:*
 TS BGRP 6SNTGT
 TS 6SNTGT
 Sophia Elect. 6SN7
 Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT Black Glass
 TS BGRP 6F8G
 National Union 6F8G
 Sylvania 6F8G
 Mullard CV 181
 Brimar CV1988
  
*Rectifier:*
 Sophia Elect. 274B
 Western Electric 422A
 Brimar (GEC) U52
 Mullard 5V4G (GZ32)
 Philips (Mullard) GZ34 (metal base)
 USAF 596
 EML 5U4G
 Cossor GZ37
 RCA 5U4G


----------



## kkcc

dubstep girl said:


> ....
> 
> buying the recommended ones from woo would be overpriced, the sound quality would be much better than stock, but *you can still do much better with $700 budget for upgraded tubes*.




I guess that's the exact reason why Woo didn't offer their amps on "premium tubes". But then they probably could have done better with the stock tubes that everyone seems to just hate. There must be some low cost alternative that works better?!


----------



## magiccabbage

punit said:


> +1
> 
> I have the following tubes for my WA22. If a WA22 owner wants any info about how any particular combination from the tubes below sound on WA22, please pm me.
> 
> ...


 
 very nice collection sir !


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> +1
> 
> I have the following tubes for my WA22. If a WA22 owner wants any info about how any particular combination from the tubes below sound on WA22, please pm me.
> 
> ...





Missing the Brimar "black gold" CV1988.


----------



## punit

magiccabbage said:


> very nice collection sir !


 
 Thank you sir.
  


jc9394 said:


> Missing the Brimar "black gold" CV1988.


 
 want to sell yours


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> want to sell yours


 
  
 Unfortunately no, they sounded so good with Glenn OTL.  It is even better than the TS BGRP 6SN7 with Glenn's amp.


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Missing the Brimar "black gold" CV1988.


 

 Purchased. Edited list above. Cannot ignore your recommendation Sir.


----------



## Feedbacker

amphibica said:


> Today I join the club as a proud owner of a Woo Audio WA6-SE!




Congratulations!!!


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> Purchased. Edited list above. Cannot ignore your recommendation Sir.


 
  
  
 Let me know how you like it when you received it.


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Let me know how you like it when you received it.


 

 what is your fav combination with the Brimar ?


----------



## kkcc

jc9394 said:


> Missing the Brimar "black gold" CV1988.




How does this compares with the Sylvania VT231 or tung sol black glass round plates?


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> what is your fav combination with the Brimar ?




On WA22, EML 274B and GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## jc9394

kkcc said:


> How does this compares with the Sylvania VT231 or tung sol black glass round plates?


 
  
 Do not have experience with Sylvania VT231.  Compare to TS BGRP, the Brimar is more engaging and dynamice with modern music but you will loose the super smooth and smaller imaging of TS.  To me I prefer the Brimar due to the music I listen.


----------



## Contrails

Has anyone used 6su7gty tubes on WA22 with 5998/7236 tubes? A review would be very helpful.

Regards


----------



## bonesnv

So put in the 596 and the 6em7's I got from Woo, but they coming off a little loud/punchy for my taste though, at least with first impressions.  This seems to be what most say around here but you never know until you try yourself. 
  
 Appeared to have lost some clarity and separation of the instruments, which was really noticeable on Bob Marley Legends and Dub Colossus albums.  Going to probably put back in the stock 6de7's tomorrow after I listen tonight a bit more, still waiting on 6ew7 and 6fd7's unfortunately, because UPS sucks.
  

  
 Haven't tried the S/P yet; with the 596 and GZ32, it may be a while before I get to rolling it in, since these already sound amazing.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> So put in the 596 and the 6em7's I got from Woo, but they coming off a little loud/punchy for my taste though, at least with first impressions.  This seems to be what most say around here but you never know until you try yourself.
> 
> Appeared to have lost some clarity and separation of the instruments, which was really noticeable on Bob Marley Legends and Dub Colossus albums.  Going to probably put back in the stock 6de7's tomorrow after I listen tonight a bit more, still waiting on 6ew7 and 6fd7's unfortunately, because UPS sucks.
> 
> ...


 
 I tried the 6GL7/6EM7 3 times due to getting different rectifier tube as time went on... and returned them no matter which rectifier tube I used with them! I felt they were so overpowering with an all around bass presence, they drowned everything else right out!


----------



## kazsud

Well the Tung Sol 7236s came


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> Well the Tung Sol 7236s came


 
 You like them?


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> I tried the 6GL7/6EM7 3 times due to getting different rectifier tube as time went on... and returned them no matter which rectifier tube I used with them! I felt they were so overpowering with an all around bass presence, they drowned everything else right out!


 
  
 That is the perfect description I was looking for, all you seem to hear is the punch.  Doubt I will return them but I am envisioning a very limited use case for them, maybe the occasional N.W.A. or Wu Tang moment lol


----------



## jc9394

bonesnv said:


> So put in the 596 and the 6em7's I got from Woo, but they coming off a little loud/punchy for my taste though, at least with first impressions.  This seems to be what most say around here but you never know until you try yourself.
> 
> Appeared to have lost some clarity and separation of the instruments, which was really noticeable on Bob Marley Legends and Dub Colossus albums.  Going to probably put back in the stock 6de7's tomorrow after I listen tonight a bit more, still waiting on 6ew7 and 6fd7's unfortunately, because UPS sucks.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 If your GZ32 is CV 593, you do not need to get the S/P.  The CV593 walk all over the princess...


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> Well the Tung Sol 7236s came


 
  
 Try GEC 6080, it is much much better pairing with HD800.


----------



## bonesnv

jc9394 said:


> If your GZ32 is CV 593, you do not need to get the S/P.  The CV593 walk all over the princess...


 
  
 It is, but I already ordered the S/P prior to ordering my GZ32.  So, I have it for down the road testing for fun.
  
 Sometimes you got to try things for yourself, at least I do, all of our ears are different and my OCD works in strange ways.  With that said, I loved the GZ32 as soon as I first heard it.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> That is the perfect description I was looking for, all you seem to hear is the punch.  Doubt I will return them but I am envisioning a very limited use case for them, maybe the occasional N.W.A. or Wu Tang moment lol


 
 I couldn't see keeping 6GL7/6EM7's for anything I listened too, and Woo's site really pumps them up as to how great they are??? And you need the adapters, and neither are inexpensive, at all!!!
 Also I have more than a few different sort after rectifier tubes, and the S/P is just as good as all of them IMO, just different sounding, like everything else.


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> I couldn't see keeping 6GL7/6EM7's for anything I listened too, and Woo's site really pumps them up as to how great they are??? And you need the adapters, and neither are inexpensive, at all!!!
> Also I have more than a few different sort after rectifier tubes, and the S/P is just as good as all of them IMO, just different sounding, like everything else.


 
  
 Definitely overhyped but you live and learn, that's what makes life fun. 
  
 The 596 is walking all over the GZ32 on Clapton Unplugged, one of my go to albums to zone out to after work.  I don't possibly see how the S/P could do better that what I'm hearing but willing to try it out at some point.
  
 I'm in love, I may have to call in sick for work tomorrow actually...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i love the CV 593, using it in WA5 right now.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> Definitely overhyped but you live and learn, that's what makes life fun.
> 
> The 596 is walking all over the GZ32 on Clapton Unplugged, one of my go to albums to zone out to after work.  I don't possibly see how the S/P could do better that what I'm hearing but willing to try it out at some point.
> 
> I'm in love, I may have to call in sick for work tomorrow actually...


 
 I think in different combinations/headphones/genres all these different types of rectifier tubes are very good depending...
 If you don't already have the 6FD7, try them, they have great clarity/detail/separation and are very crisp and alive too my ears.
  


dubstep girl said:


> i love the CV 593, using it in WA5 right now.


 
 Glad to hear your enjoying your new tubes/amp!
 I tried the 6DR7 and in a lot of ways  enjoy it very much, especially the warmth. They remind me of the 6SN7 (which I can no longer use). And I never even bothered trying the 6EW7-6DE7 tubes which came with the 6/6-SE because they were stock tubes, and no one really says much good about them…but you were 100% right with these tubes, they're really satisfying too my ears. Thanks!
 Enjoy!


----------



## joseph69

Sorry about the incorrect recommendation to *bonesnv*, I meant the 6*FD*7's.
 This tube rolling can get confusing remembering all the different numbers/letters.


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> Sorry about the incorrect recommendation to *bonesnv*, I meant the 6*FD*7's.
> This tube rolling can get confusing remembering all the different numbers/letters.


 
  
 No problem, knew what yah meant. They should be here next week, there was a UPS mishap or I'd have them today with the rest.  Looking forward to them after the reviews of their sound signature.
  
 Really my only improvement at this point I think I am recognizably going to be able to get are with some open back cans, I like the T1's my uncle has; a little higher end DAC (Schiit Ygg when it's released) and of course a fully upgraded WA5....I can dream....lol


----------



## punit

contrails said:


> Has anyone used 6su7gty tubes on WA22 with 5998/7236 tubes? A review would be very helpful.
> 
> Regards


 

 As per Woo these are not compatible with WA22


----------



## kazsud

Yes. Slightly bigger and detailed sounding w/ less color or veil but not as much bass as the Tong Sol 5998.


----------



## kazsud

Thanks they are on my list especially the gec 6as7g


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> Thanks they are on my list especially the gec 6as7g


 
  
 it is hard to find now, good thing i still have a pair...


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Missing the Brimar "black gold" CV1988.


 
  
 Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Let me know how you like it when you received it.


 

 Brimar CV 1988 + EML 5U4G (Solid Plate) + GEC 6AS7G
  


  With HD 800  - wide Soundstage with good depth & imaging, smooth extended treble & sweet mids. Bass is not a punchy as TSBGRP & CV 181 but is not weak & has good resolution / texture. Very Nice.


----------



## jc9394

Glad you like it. Try to play with the rectifiers, it is more responsive to rectifier than BGRP.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Glad you like it. Try to play with the rectifiers, it is more responsive to rectifier than BGRP.


 
  
 +1
  


punit said:


> Brimar CV 1988 + EML 5U4G (Solid Plate) + GEC 6AS7G
> 
> 
> 
> With HD 800  - wide Soundstage with good depth & imaging, smooth extended treble & sweet mids. Bass is not a punchy as TSBGRP & CV 181 but is not weak & has good resolution / texture. Very Nice.


 
  
 that eml is bottlenecking that tube combo, toss it and throw in a U52, metal mullard gz34, or WE 422A to really hear what the WA22 can do


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> 
> that eml is bottlenecking that tube combo, toss it and throw in a U52, metal mullard gz34, or WE 422A to really hear what the WA22 can do




Listen to DG, my favorite is the metal base gz34. 

Guess what DG? I'm Chi town bound next week, will try to take some pics of Chicago River's bridges.


----------



## punit

Does sound better with U52. The EML has slightly more treble extension but U52 soundstage is even wider & sounds more "sweeter" / "emotional". I have noticed this about U52 while rolling it with lot's of different combinations. It has the most "emotional" sound amongst all the rec's I have tried.


----------



## lojay

+1 
  
 The U52 is amazing. Not quite concerned to get the WE 422A or even 274B... yet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Listen to DG, my favorite is the metal base gz34.
> 
> Guess what DG? I'm Chi town bound next week, will try to take some pics of Chicago River's bridges.


 
  
 omg awesome! 
  
 any chance of making the ChiUniFi meet?
  
  


punit said:


> Does sound better with U52. The EML has slightly more treble extension but U52 soundstage is even wider & sounds more "sweeter" / "emotional". I have noticed this about U52 while rolling it with lot's of different combinations. It has the most "emotional" sound amongst all the rec's I have tried.


 
  
 the sweetness/emotional-ness is the reason i love GEC tubes! only the 422A comes close, though I feel like the 422A has a slightly more neutral and more "reference" tube sound, still sweet though.
  
 I've never been a big fan of EML 5U4G, it feels a little too warm (not in a thick kinda way, not in a sweet kinda euphonic way, but rather in a colored kinda way), the treble extends but doesn't seem as good as some of the other good tubes. the bass is kinda lean, and just overall, i feel like it falls way too short on many things, doesn't have that 3D kinda sound it should for the price. the EML 274B is better but not at NOS tube levels. Also, both fall short on transparency.


----------



## Silent One

Regarding the EML 5U4G, I simply could not justify its price/performance ratio and quickly sent it packing. Decent glass but not at that price.


----------



## Redcarmoose

silent one said:


> Regarding the EML 5U4G, I simply could not justify its price/performance ratio and quickly sent it packing. Decent glass but not at that price.


 

 From what I have read and experienced while being into tubes, we have had a slow resurgence in quality manufacturing from about 1999 on. So what was expensive and/or rare has now been replaced with middle priced value tubes. My opinion anyway. Not counting the legendary WE 300bs which were actually priced OK in 1999.


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> omg awesome!
> 
> any chance of making the ChiUniFi meet?




When and where? I'm arriving Monday night and leaving Friday afternoon.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> When and where? I'm arriving Monday night and leaving Friday afternoon.


 
 oh weekend of the 21st


----------



## punit

silent one said:


> Regarding the EML 5U4G, I simply could not justify its price/performance ratio and quickly sent it packing. Decent glass but not at that price.


 

 I bought it used, at much lower price than a new one.


----------



## Louis111

Just bought a U.S. army Raytheon Tube Type RK60 for my Woo WA6SE. Could you tell me where I can find an adapter to fit since the pins are not the same size as the originals
  
 Gear is: MacBook Pro-Bifrost-WA6SE-HD800-Momentum full size


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> oh weekend of the 21st


 
  
 Can't even if I want to go, have a weeding to attend on the 21th.


----------



## jc9394

louis111 said:


> Just bought a U.S. army Raytheon Tube Type RK60 for my Woo WA6SE. Could you tell me where I can find an adapter to fit since the pins are not the same size as the originals
> 
> Gear is: MacBook Pro-Bifrost-WA6SE-HD800-Momentum full size


 
  
 Ebay have few sellers sells it.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Hey everyone, we will be at the San Francisco Bay Area Head-Fi meet on July 19th.  Here's more info on the meet.  Look forward to meeting some of you.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/714477/official-2014-sf-head-fi-meet-july-19-2014-doubletree-san-francisco-airport


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> omg awesome!
> 
> any chance of making the ChiUniFi meet?


 
  
  
 Dang, I'm only 15 minutes away but I can't stay until Saturday.


----------



## TontNZ

I've just received my WA5-LE (maxed), not even unpacked yet!  This is the first valve/tube amp I've purchased in 25 years.  So what's considered best practice for burning in tube amps now?
  
 What's the maximum run time?  Does significant variations in volume matter?  I was planning on using the cheap tubes that come with the WA5-LE to run it in and then swap to the best tubes, is this the right way to go?


----------



## kkcc

tontnz said:


> I've just received my WA5-LE (maxed), not even unpacked yet!  This is the first valve/tube amp I've purchased in 25 years.  So what's considered best practice for burning in tube amps now?
> 
> What's the maximum run time?  Does significant variations in volume matter?  I was planning on using the cheap tubes that come with the WA5-LE to run it in and then swap to the best tubes, is this the right way to go?




Congrats!! I recall Jack's advise is not running continuously over 8 hours.


----------



## kazsud

kkcc said:


> Congrats!! I recall Jack's advise is not running continuously over 8 hours.




Good to know


----------



## joseph69

tontnz said:


> I've just received my WA5-LE (maxed), not even unpacked yet!  This is the first valve/tube amp I've purchased in 25 years.  So what's considered best practice for burning in tube amps now?
> 
> What's the maximum run time?  Does significant variations in volume matter?  I was planning on using the cheap tubes that come with the WA5-LE to run it in and then swap to the best tubes, is this the right way to go?


 
 Congratulations!


----------



## MickeyVee

Sweet! Congtrats!
  
 Quote:


tontnz said:


> I've just received my WA5-LE (maxed), not even unpacked yet!  This is the first valve/tube amp I've purchased in 25 years.


----------



## lojay

tontnz said:


> I was planning on using the cheap tubes that come with the WA5-LE to run it in and then swap to the best tubes, is this the right way to go?


 
 Since tubes will expire to meet their maker in less than 10,000 hrs (sometimes much less) I suppose that is right. It is probably time to shop for premium tubes!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

tontnz said:


> I've just received my WA5-LE (maxed), not even unpacked yet!  This is the first valve/tube amp I've purchased in 25 years.  So what's considered best practice for burning in tube amps now?
> 
> What's the maximum run time?  Does significant variations in volume matter?  I was planning on using the cheap tubes that come with the WA5-LE to run it in and then swap to the best tubes, is this the right way to go?


 
  
 Congratulations!  We would love to see some pics when you're ready.


----------



## punit

kkcc said:


> Congrats!! I recall Jack's advise is not running continuously over 8 hours.


 
HiFiGuy528 Can you confirm this is correct ? If yes then can you elaborate why ? All  amp manufacturers that I have purchased from (A GD, Schiit, Meier, Bottlehead etc.) have confirmed that there is no problem leaving their amps on for 2-3 days.
  
 Also did you work for Sony before ? You have almost all their HP's ?


----------



## Redcarmoose

tontnz said:


> I've just received my WA5-LE (maxed), not even unpacked yet!  This is the first valve/tube amp I've purchased in 25 years.  So what's considered best practice for burning in tube amps now?
> 
> What's the maximum run time?  Does significant variations in volume matter?  I was planning on using the cheap tubes that come with the WA5-LE to run it in and then swap to the best tubes, is this the right way to go?




How exciting! I remember that feeling. Congratulations. Yes, they recommend only 8 hour runs. The amps get a little toasty after time on.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> HiFiGuy528 Can you confirm this is correct ? If yes then can you elaborate why ? All  amp manufacturers that I have purchased from (A GD, Schiit, Meier, Bottlehead etc.) have confirmed that there is no problem leaving their amps on for 2-3 days.
> 
> Also did you work for Sony before ? You have almost all their HP's ?


 
 On Woos site it states not to run the amp for more than 8 hrs under "faqs"


----------



## TontNZ

lojay said:


> Since tubes will expire to meet their maker in less than 10,000 hrs (sometimes much less) I suppose that is right. It is probably time to shop for premium tubes!


 
 I did opt for some "better" tubes.  I picked up some Sylvania 6SN7GT NOS, 274B Sophia Princess Mesh Plate and EML 300B's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hopefully, that's sufficient (given the total cost) to get me going!


----------



## Redcarmoose

tontnz said:


> I did opt for some "better" tubes.  I picked up some Sylvania 6SN7GT NOS, 274B Sophia Princess Mesh Plate and EML 300B's
> 
> Hopefully, that's sufficient (given the total cost) to get me going!






Get going where else? Your maybe done for awhile till the estranged tube rolling cult in this thread converts you to become one of their own. Then there is no end. Just packages in the mail ad infinitum.


----------



## TontNZ

hifiguy528 said:


> Congratulations!  We would love to see some pics when you're ready.


 
 Will do, I'm just tidying up my work/listening area (read massive clean-out!) before unpacking them.  I'm also waiting on some Audeze LCD-X's purchased from another Head-Fi'er and a new Chord Hugo, which should have been shipped today but didn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Likewise, on the recommendations of other fellow 'Fi'ers I've opted for a Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB cable.  I'll probably opt for some of the Blue Jeans RCA-RCA cables.


----------



## TontNZ

redcarmoose said:


> How exciting! I remember that feeling. Congratulations. Yes, they recommend only 8 hour runs. The amps get a little toasty after time on.


 
 That "feeling" was rather tarnished by Fed-Ex.  They arranged delivery by one of the local courier companies and Fed-Ex in their wisdom decided to split the three box consignment into a one box consignment and a two box consignment.  So one box was delivered at 10.00 am Wednesday and I had to wait until 1.30 pm Thursday for the other two boxes!  I had to take time out from work to wait around home all day for couriers not to turn up.  To say the least, I was less than impressed by Fed-Ex  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, my last valve (tube to you guys!) amp was/are Esoteric Audio Research EAR 519, 100 watt monoblocks.  These were designed for studio use and without any exaggeration they could be run continuously 14+ hours a day, day-after-day.  Never broke a sweat and always reliable.


----------



## Redcarmoose

tontnz said:


> That "feeling" was rather tarnished by Fed-Ex.  They arranged delivery by one of the local courier companies and Fed-Ex in their wisdom decided to split the three box consignment into a one box consignment and a two box consignment.  So one box was delivered at 10.00 am Wednesday and I had to wait until 1.30 pm Thursday for the other two boxes!  I had to take time out from work to wait around home all day for couriers not to turn up.  To say the least, I was less than impressed by Fed-Ex  :eek:
> 
> Anyway, my last valve (tube to you guys!) amp was/are Esoteric Audio Research EAR 519, 100 watt monoblocks.  These were designed for studio use and without any exaggeration they could be run continuously 14+ hours a day, day-after-day.  Never broke a sweat and always reliable.




I actually told FedX I didn't want the boxes delivered. I told them to email me and I would drive down to the FedX hub and pick them up directly. Normally they are fine with that cuz it saves them work. 

Just something for folks to think about here.


I have done this with most of my audio equipment because I didn't have the ability to wait at home. I just could not wait.


----------



## TontNZ

redcarmoose said:


> Get going where else? Your maybe done for awhile till the estranged tube rolling cult in this thread converts you to become one of their own. Then there is no end. Just packages in the mail ad infinitum.


 
 Funny you should say that, I've already been in touch with some-one that has a large stock of some of the more sought after matched pairs of 6SN7's (and their variants) and 5U4G's, all NOS.  Just perusing the list he emailed me, I identified another $1,000 worth of tubes I'd like to try!
  
 He has some:
 CV1988 / 6SN7GTY “brown base” BRIMAR UK.
 6SN7GT Brimar 1950's.
 "5692" Red-base Philips USA (RCA made) 1960's.
  
 and
 RCA "brown-base G" shape 5R4GTY 1950's.
 Mullard UK brown-base GZ33.
  
 It's an insidious hobby/obsession alright.  It also has to coexist alongside my love of motorcycling and the stream of new parts for that!


----------



## joseph69

I ordered a WA6/6SN7 adapters from Woo this afternoon and purchased some NOS 1962 6SN7WGTA JAN tubes from eBay today.
 I'm waiting for Jack to reply to my message asking him if he will accept 15% re-stocking fee instead of the normal 10% being I am past the return date on my 6-SE.
 Even though he hasn't replied yet, if anyone is interested in my 1 month old SILVER 6-SE -15% of the retail price PM me!
 Thanks 
 Joseph


----------



## Silent One

tontnz said:


> That "feeling" was rather tarnished by Fed-Ex.  They arranged delivery by one of the local courier companies and Fed-Ex in their wisdom decided to split the three box consignment into a one box consignment and a two box consignment.  So one box was delivered at 10.00 am Wednesday and I had to wait until 1.30 pm Thursday for the other two boxes!  I had to take time out from work to wait around home all day for couriers not to turn up.  To say the least, I was less than impressed by Fed-Ex
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




 Congrats on your purchase and getting thru the misadventure!


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrats on the WA6 (again !! Hopefully things will work out with the 6SE & Jack.  I'll probably also order the adaptors and try the Sophia 6SN7's.
 Quote:


joseph69 said:


> I ordered a WA6/6SN7 adapters from Woo this afternoon and purchased some NOS 1962 6SN7WGTA JAN tubes from eBay today.


----------



## joseph69

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Thanks…again on the WA6 lol!
 If they don't work out with Jack I'll just put the 6-SE up on eBay.
 At least I'll be were I want too be with my set-up again.
 Thanks again


----------



## -kent-

Just got my last part of the WA6... The Ultimate Driver Tubes, the 6GL7/6EM7 
They sound so stunning! Love them!


----------



## joseph69

-kent- said:


> Just got my last part of the WA6... The Ultimate Driver Tubes, the 6GL7/6EM7
> They sound so stunning! Love them!


 
 Congratulations!


----------



## -kent-

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations!


 
 Thank you!


----------



## ninjapirate9901

Hi there, I have recently come into possession of a used WA6 SE and am currently running into an issue with channel imbalance. I figure I'd ask here to see if anyone could help troubleshoot. I have noticed over the past week that the right channel is noticeably louder than the left.
  
 My current tube configuration that I am running is a pair of RCA 6EW7's and a brand new Sophia Princess 274B.
  
 Initial troubleshooting:
  

First I tried just swapping the driver pair around. Channel imbalance is still present. One side thing I will note is that the if I wriggle the tube that drives the right channel it makes a loud static/hiss sound. If I wiggle the tube for the left channel it makes a loud popping sound...
Next thing I tried was a different pair of driver tubes. In goes a set of 6FD7’s (no markings). Worryingly I found that I initially got no signal at all out of the left channel (I had used them a week ago and they were still working). Quickly power off, swapped the pair around, now I get sound out of both channels but the imbalance is still there...
Just for kicks I put the old 6EW7's back in to see if there was still channel imbalance. Same thing happened again where the left channel had no signal coming out. Power off, reseat both drivers and rectifier tube, power on. Signal comes through on both channels but again the damn imbalance.
  
 In addition to the above, the channel imbalance is noticed on both high and low output jacks. Input channels also don't seem to matter. I used the same cable (cheap stuff with a ground loop isolator on the end) that goes from my DAC (D100 MkII) to the WA6SE on a couple of other amps (Maestral III, Soloist) and no channel imbalance was noticed.
  
 The only easily changeable thing I haven't tried at this point is the driver tube. I think I have another lying around somewhere which I'll try tonight and see if that resolves the issue. Anyone else got any tips/suggestions?


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Welcome to the fickleness of tube amps...
  
 There is a possibility it could be the rectifier tube since it determines the amount of power getting to the driver tubes, thus how strongly they can drive each channel. Not sure about the exact topology of the WA6SE, but the 274B can provide voltage to each side separately and if there is an issue with one of the cathode/anode pairs (even with a new tube like yours) that may cause this imbalance problem.
  
 Another thing could be a mechanical contact issue, maybe use a flashlight and check the sockets (tubes should be OK since you swapped them without swapping the imbalance), to make sure nothing is bent, obstructed or loose in the pinholes. It could also be a faulty cap etc. inside the amp. If either of these things go wrong, you'll have most likely have to send it in for repair.
  
 But hopefully it's just a tube issue. Since you tried the driver left/right swap, definitely try the rectifier tube. And since the SE uses an umbilical cord between the two halves, disconnect it completely, check for bent pins/pinhole damage that may cause a contact problem, then tightly reconnect.
  
 P.S.: Also be aware the a 274B provides less voltage/power than the 5U4G usually provided by Woo. Shouldn't matter, but if there's one thing I've learned with my own tube-rolling experience it's that there are many parameters and characteristics to tubes, even within the same compatible family, and these interactions are not always as simple. I.e. the drivers may not be well matched, though with sufficient power they will be OK, but in an edge case it may just be enough for one tube but not the other. Though since the issue didn't switch after the tube swap, it's not likely in this particular case.
  
 P.P.S.: While swapping tubes with the amp off is a good way to check things, I would NOT advise to wiggle them while ON; if there is a contact issue and it is lost and thus the circuit interrupted, then even maybe reconnected, very bad things can happen. Most people wouldn't open a powered-on solid-state amp and pulling on/plugging the live components or shorting out the wires either, and just because on many tube amps part of the circuitry is on the outside (the tubes) that doesn't make any more a good idea...


----------



## bbophead

I thought the driver tubes were also the power tubes (dual triode) or is that what you just said?


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

bbophead said:


> I thought the driver tubes were also the power tubes (dual triode) or is that what you just said?


 

 Yup, though it's a special case in that these specific tubes combine the driver & power sections in one tube for each channel.
  
 But it's the rectifier (ex. 274B), turning the AC current into DC current at high voltage, that said tubes directly depend on. So if it is faulty, everything down the chain will be affected.


----------



## bbophead

So a rectifier could screw up one channel but not the other?


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

So I had to really dig in a bit and look into this in more detail since I'm still learning too (beyond having experienced the differences when swapping rectifiers myself).
  
 And: probably not... As it turns out, a full-wave rectifier (like the one discussed here) has two sections not for L/R, but for making use of the positive & negative cycle of alternating current. So it would not cause problems in the sense of having one section affecting only one channel.
  
 However, if one section is defective, it would probably still cause audible problems because of the ensuing voltage fluctuation. And the other possibility remains as well, that in an edge case combined with mismatched L/R driver/power tubes, one side may be more affected than the other.
  
 At this point, someone more experienced should probably chime in with this. Anyway this wasn't supposed to turn into a technical discussion of tubes, but more about some suggestions for troubleshooting ninjapirate9901's problem.
  
 The bottomline is that the rectifier can affect audio quality, possibly one channel more than the other, and when troubleshooting it is worth swapping it out as one of the checks. Though I'd say in this case, most likely it's more circuit related, on that side/channel, bad contact, bad cap or loosened wire during shipping (since it's a point-to-point wiring but Woo usually has very good build quality)


----------



## bbophead

Thanks for your efforts.


----------



## deanorthk

I'm totally decided, I'm going to sell my fostex HPA8, and get the WA6SE.
 As I've ordered a cypher labs theorem 720 dac/amp, I think that I'm really going to just let the WA6SE on my desk and pair it with the cypher as a dac, when I'm home, and unplug it when I'm away.


----------



## ninjapirate9901

thegrumpyoldman said:


> Welcome to the fickleness of tube amps...
> 
> There is a possibility it could be the rectifier tube since it determines the amount of power getting to the driver tubes, thus how strongly they can drive each channel. Not sure about the exact topology of the WA6SE, but the 274B can provide voltage to each side separately and if there is an issue with one of the cathode/anode pairs (even with a new tube like yours) that may cause this imbalance problem.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the help!
  
 I did some further testing last night and it doesn't seem like changing the rectifier makes any difference to the channel imbalance. I think I have found the issue though.
  
 It seems to be related to the socket for the left channel. The position of the tube seems to be quite important as it seems I can make the left channel louder or quieter depending on how the tube is seated in the socket. A quick inspection with a flashlight doesn't really show anything particularly out of whack when compared with the socket for the right channel. I'm guessing some of the internal pin sockets are worn out to some degree.
  
 Maybe I just need to replace the socket completely...


----------



## Justin_Time

ninjapirate9901 said:


> Thanks for the help!
> 
> I did some further testing last night and it doesn't seem like changing the rectifier makes any difference to the channel imbalance. I think I have found the issue though.
> 
> ...




Did you try swapping the 300B and 6SN7 from left to right? The tubes may not be well matched. If that does not help, It sounds like ( no pun intended) you have poor contacts. You can open the back of the amp or PSU very easily and have a complete access to the back of the sockets--do turn off the power first. He! He!

Then you can see the status of the sockets. You can easily clean the copper springs if needed (Detoxit D100) or bend them slightly with a pair of needle-nose pliers to make sure they are aligned with the holes and provide even and sufficient pressure on the tube pins.

Replacing the sockets--get the Teflon upgrade if you do--will require significant surgery-- multiple solder joints--and will set you back quite a few clams.

I hope this helps.


----------



## ninjapirate9901

justin_time said:


> Did you try swapping the 300B and 6SN7 from left to right? The tubes may not be well matched. If that does not help, It sounds like ( no pun intended) you have poor contacts. You can open the back of the amp or PSU very easily and have a complete access to the back of the sockets--do turn off the power first. He! He!
> 
> Then you can see the status of the sockets. You can easily clean the copper springs if needed (Detoxit D100) or bend them slightly with a pair of needle-nose pliers to make sure they are aligned with the holes and provide even and sufficient pressure on the tube pins.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's a WA6 SE so the 300B and 6SN7 don't really apply in this case. I have swapped the driver tubes around to little effect (see an older post), so my thinking is that it's most likely socket related. I may have to crack the underside off and see if the pins are bent.


----------



## BoxBoxBox

How do I replace a blown fuse in a woo audio amp? Is it difficult?


----------



## Justin_Time

boxboxbox said:


> How do I replace a blown fuse in a woo audio amp? Is it difficult?


 
 No, it is usually quite easy.
  
 The fuse holder in many models are right below the AC plug. Just pop it out and you usually find a short slow-blow fuse of 2.5 to 3 amps. 
  
 It is a lot more difficult to figure out why you blew the fuse.  If the problem is not fix you will blow the next fuse or worse, you could damage the amp or the tubes.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Stealer

Hi,

I am coming from Little Dot mk 6+
And wondering what will I be expecting if I were to upgrade to wa22.
Beside leaving a big hole in my pocket.

Been wanting to go for and audition but the shop had just shipped its unit to US for an upgrade.
No.. I had to listen to a Woo yet..


----------



## koiloco

stealer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am coming from Little Dot mk 6+
> And wondering what will I be expecting if I were to upgrade to wa22.
> ...


 
 Whatever you do, just do not listen to the WA22 with stock tubes and with unbalanced inputs...You will not be very impressed.


----------



## givemevinyl

I'm interested in buying a used WES.  Please let me know if anyone is willing to sell.


----------



## bonesnv

koiloco said:


> Whatever you do, just do not listen to the WA22 with stock tubes and with unbalanced inputs...You will not be very impressed.


 
  
 Got some tube recommendations for the WA22? Or anyone else for that matter, chime in.
  
 Personally, looking at the WA22 so that I can go fully balanced and maintain the ability to use the rectifiers I already have for my 6SE, the CV593, USAF-596 and some odds and ends.  I know from a single ended standpoint Jack even stated there isn't much difference and I understand that, but planning on using the XLR's/balanced input/outputs.
  
 The question becomes, is the balanced that much of a change?  Maybe someone who has owned both can comment further. Or is this more or less just a side grade option?  Also, the LCD3's will be tossed into the mix here soon, as I am not entirely sold on the T1's, little bright for personal taste but are phenomenal for certain songs so its tough.  So will be looking for compatibility there as well.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

bonesnv said:


> Got some tube recommendations for the WA22? Or anyone else for that matter, chime in.
> 
> Personally, looking at the WA22 so that I can go fully balanced and maintain the ability to use the rectifiers I already have for my 6SE, the CV593, USAF-596 and some odds and ends.  I know from a single ended standpoint Jack even stated there isn't much difference and I understand that, but planning on using the XLR's/balanced input/outputs.
> 
> The question becomes, is the balanced that much of a change?  Maybe someone who has owned both can comment further. Or is this more or less just a side grade option?  Also, the LCD3's will be tossed into the mix here soon, as I am not entirely sold on the T1's, little bright for personal taste but are phenomenal for certain songs so its tough.  So will be looking for compatibility there as well.


 
 I've tried a number of tube combinations with my 22, and the group that I've settled on are WE 421A power tubes, TS 6F8G drivers, and a WE 422 rectifier.  I also like the EML mesh 5U4G almost as well as the WE 422.  You can read DGs thoughts on the subject; I think she and I agree on the rectifiers, though.


----------



## punit

bonesnv said:


> Got some tube recommendations for the WA22? Or anyone else for that matter, chime in.


 
  
 In addition to the one mentioned in the post above, I would also recommend these combinations for WA22:
  

Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6AS7G + CV 181
Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6080 + CV 181
Cossor GZ37 + TS 5998 + CV 181
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + CV 181
USAF 596 + GEC 6AS7G + CV 181
WE422A + TS5998 + CV181
WE422A + TS7236 + TSBG 6F8G 
WE422A + WE421A + SE 6SN7 
WE422A + WE421A + CV 181
U52 + TS 5998 + TSBG 6F8G
U52 + WE421A + Mullard CV 181
U52 + GEC 6AS7G + Brimar CV1988
U52 + GEC 6080 + Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT BG
U52 + Chatham 6080WB Solid GP+ Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT BG
U52 + Chatham 6080WB Solid GP+ Brimar CV1988


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> I've tried a number of tube combinations with my 22, and the group that I've settled on are WE 421A power tubes, TS 6F8G drivers, and a WE 422 rectifier.  I also like the EML mesh 5U4G almost as well as the WE 422.  You can read DGs thoughts on the subject; I think she and I agree on the rectifiers, though.


 
  
 yeah i pretty much decided on the same tubes when i had 22.
  
 except i didn't like the EML anywhere near as much as the 422. but i would put the metal mullard or U52 as a close second


----------



## bonesnv

Thank's for the replies.  
  
 I think I am good with rectifier's for now short of maybe a U52 or metal base GZ, I love the sound the 596 brings to table, same with the CV.  Just not quite on board with spending $600+ on a WE yet.
  
 The driver/power combinations you all posted though are right in line with what I was looking for.  Will start looking into them and checking on costs, etc.  Doesn't appear anyone recommended Jack's Sylvania setup for the 6SN7's, do these rate up there with the 6GL7 in terms of "un-wow" factor?
  
 The real question that I have, is if you had the choice to do it, would you make the switch?  Tube upgrades included, would not be using stock.  Trying to determine if the cost difference is worth the added benefit or if it is minimal at best.  The intent was to try and use tubes I already had, which is why I hadn't looked at alternatives just yet.  Plus I love the look of the Woo amps.
  
 EDIT:  Also, does Jack still offer some of the upgrades for other models besides the 5?  Was curious if the teflon sockets made a difference or not in terms of sound quality or if it was just a more secure connection to the tube type add-on.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> In addition to the one mentioned in the post above, I would also recommend these combinations for WA22:
> 
> 
> Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6AS7G + CV 181
> ...


 
  
 Hugely beneficial, thank you.  Actually saved that list out so I have quick access to it.
  
 The question I would like to ask though is what type of music are you typically listening to?  I know, it's like a game of 20 questions.


----------



## punit

That's a good question. I listen to Rock & EDM. Sometimes tube preferences differ depending on the genre, I cannot say for sure that all the combos above will work for  jazz / classical. (I will be surprised if they don't as all the above combos  sound so good but I don't listen to jazz / classical so can't say for sure).
  
 Also all the above are with HD 800. I see that you have the T1's , if you are interested in any particular combo, I can try on my T1's & let you know.


----------



## bonesnv

Well, my T1's I am not entirely sold on just yet, little thin for my personal tastes but the 6EM7's do give them a decent bump in the low end, which makes Danny Carry's drums more identifiable on my Tool albums, or Josh Freese on the APC/NIN live albums.  
  
 However, I can't use that same driver set at all with the Alpha Dogs and have to switch over to the 6FD7 fat bottles.  With the AD's they are way to bloated and mask all of the other sounds, the layers of music just seem to compress to one with a lot of thumping.
  
 As I already have my 596, probably looking to include that in some way into the party so looking up the tube combinations that match up well with it until I expand the rectifier collection down the road.
  
 Now the difficult part, is that it is really hard to describe my taste in music, because I literally listen to absolutely everything, except Country which I loathe, outside of Johnny Cash.  
  
 Would say the most frequented albums are 90's rock like Temple of a Dog, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Tool, STP, etc.  Outside of that, a lot of 60's/70's rock, Cream/Clapton, Hendrix, Beatles (Sgt. Pepper is one of my favorite albums), Zeppelin and Sabbath. Those are the albums where I tend to like the euphonic nature of the GZ32/CV593 over the 596 which is very neutral sounding in the 6SE.
  
 Now round that out with Miles Davis, Norah Jones, George Benson and classical (particularly strings), Chesky, or even something like Dub Colossus is a good relaxing bit of music to listen to at night.
  
 Hopefully that wasn't to long winded for an early morning, coffee does wonders...lol


----------



## punit

bonesnv said:


> As I already have my 596, probably looking to include that in some way into the party so looking up the tube combinations that match up well with it until I expand the rectifier collection down the road.


 
 Few more combinations that I like with 596 :
  

USAF 596 + GEC 6080 + TSBG 6F8G
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + NU 6F8G
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + SE 6SN7


----------



## grmnasasin0227

Hi all, I know that glenn used to make 6SN7 > 6EW7 adapters for people here with their WA6-SEs, but I spoke to him recently and apparently he has since stopped making that adapter. Does anybody have any leads for me as to who makes such an adapter, or is using 6SN7 tubes in a WA6-SE simply not possible anymore?


----------



## bonesnv

grmnasasin0227 said:


> Hi all, I know that glenn used to make 6SN7 > 6EW7 adapters for people here with their WA6-SEs, but I spoke to him recently and apparently he has since stopped making that adapter. Does anybody have any leads for me as to who makes such an adapter, or is using 6SN7 tubes in a WA6-SE simply not possible anymore?


 
  
 It is not recommended by Jack for the 6SE.  If you ask for details, you more or less just get told to buy a WA6 instead if you want to use the 6SN7's.  His last comment to me, he stated it had to do with the voltage of the 6SN7's, that was all I got and didn't push it further since I am not a sound engineer or an electrical engineer.


----------



## grmnasasin0227

bonesnv said:


> It is not recommended by Jack for the 6SE.  If you ask for details, you more or less just get told to buy a WA6 instead if you want to use the 6SN7's.  His last comment to me, he stated it had to do with the voltage of the 6SN7's, that was all I got and didn't push it further since I am not a sound engineer or an electrical engineer.


 

 I'm aware. IIRC the adapters were able to mitigate that issue, but I haven't found the post yet so I'm going off the top of my head.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Few more combinations that I like with 596 :
> 
> 
> USAF 596 + GEC 6080 + TSBG 6F8G
> ...


 
  
 So the question I have, maybe this won't necessarily apply to your situation, given the opportunity to go from the 6SE and move up to the 22, is it worth the upgrade if using the balanced in/out setup?


----------



## kazsud

YES


----------



## Nic Rhodes

to get the best out of a 22 you need new tubes and balanced ins and outs. When this is done the 22 shows it's class, otherwise the jump isn't as significant or worthwhile over a 6se.


----------



## bonesnv

The answers I was looking for, thanks.  So as long as I am balanced in/out as planned and I have my tubes sorted, then it seems it would be worth it.


----------



## jc9394

Balanced out is not needed. Giving the price of WA22 with ultra premium tubes, take a look at WA5/LE with decent tubes. You may be surprise.


----------



## bonesnv

jc9394 said:


> Balanced out is not needed. Giving the price of WA22 with ultra premium tubes, take a look at WA5/LE with decent tubes. You may be surprise.


 
  
 I had heard balanced wasn't hugely needed in the grand scheme of headphone amplification but with that particular setup it matched up well.  
  
 Appears that when you add in the fact I would need an additional 596 and adapter (or other matched pair), in addition to the 300B tubes and drivers, plus the added cost of the system as a whole, there's a price gap.  I don't have any real intention of spending money on a bunch of Western Electric tubes right now.  Maybe some day but I have been content with my current selections.  The TS6F8G and 5998 combo is relatively reasonable in cost and I can use the single rectifiers I already own. 
  
 I am not sure the WA5 is in the same price point I am looking for when it is all said and done, as nice as it is. Wouldn't mind one some day, or a Stratus (which I fell for when I first saw it, same with Glenn's amp)
  
 Thanks for the insight though, something I will still look into and weigh out my options.


----------



## punit

Just to clarify,On the WA22 Balanced out is not needed but Balanced in definitely is.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Just to clarify,On the WA22 Balanced out is not needed but Balanced in definitely is.


 
  
 From what I read on another website, as a comment attributed to Jack, was that using the single ended out, even when using balanced in, offered no notable difference than the 6SE.  It was only using balanced out where there was a notable change.  Will see if I can dig up that quote again, might have been on 6moons or something, was just googling WA22 reviews.  
  
 Do you find that accurate at all, or is the single ended as good as the balanced out?  
  
 I know I am a 5000 questions type person so thank ya'll for the patience as I poke and prod for info, good chunk of change involved and I just want to get all my ducks in a row before pulling the trigger.


----------



## jc9394

As Pundit have said, balanced in is absolutely needed and unbalanced/balanced out does not make much difference.


----------



## bonesnv

jc9394 said:


> As Pundit have said, balanced in is absolutely needed and unbalanced/balanced out does not make much difference.


 
  
 Gotcha, just wanted to clarify.
  
 Thanks for the help everyone.  Still looking at the 5LE, seeing if there is a way to make it work but will see how things play out.


----------



## I right I

jc9394 said:


> As Pundit have said, balanced in is absolutely needed and unbalanced/balanced out does not make much difference.


I'd just like to clarify something: the 1/4 output in the WA22 is technically a balanced output.


----------



## I right I

Here is what Jack Wu had to say about it:

Quote:
The WA22 is a fully balanced amp, see diagram below.




The question here is that this amp is not fully balanced because the "amp with a single ended output stage directly connected to the XLR connectors.” It is not true. In an Output Transformer coupled design, the primary and secondary coils are isolated. Output stage and input stage are not connected and thus no cross-talk whatsoever can happen.

On the ¼” output, both channels have independent paths, see the black and red wires. If this wiring scheme applies to a Output Transformer Less design, the circuit will become single-ended. See the second diagram in #17, the v- would have to be a common wire to other channel. One must be carefull not to take reference from the wrong context to avoid all the misunderstanding.

Also, no phase splitter is needed because the source is XLR (balanced). As for the RCA input, only ½ of the input is used and the efficiency is roughly dropped 50%. In other words, the RCA input will not take advantage of this design. You must use a balanced source to get the best out of the WA22.

Hope that clarifies.

-Jack


----------



## bonesnv

Thanks, was mistaken on the input/out portion in regards to Jack's comments.


----------



## bonesnv

Based on the advice given, have a set of TSBG 6F8G's coming and some TS 5998's to go with the 596 rectifier.  Looks like I am going to join the WA22 party. As tempting as that WA5LE was, it was just beyond what the significant other was willing to let slide, lol.  Yah win some battles and yah lose some.
  
  
 Thanks again for all the assistance from everyone, this forum is a wealth of knowledge and for some crazy reason I like learning about it all.


----------



## Redcarmoose

bonesnv said:


> Based on the advice given, have a set of TSBG 6F8G's coming and some TS 5998's to go with the 596 rectifier.  Looks like I am going to join the WA22 party. As tempting as that WA5LE was, it was just beyond what the significant other was willing to let slide, lol.  Yah win some battles and yah lose some.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for all the assistance from everyone, this forum is a wealth of knowledge and for some crazy reason I like learning about it all.


 
 I told my Wife after I purchased the W5LE. I told her I had a life threatening disease and it was my last wish. Forgiveness is easy to ask for, permission is not.


----------



## jc9394

redcarmoose said:


> I told my Wife after I purchased the W5LE. I told her I had a life threatening disease and it was my last wish. Forgiveness is easy to ask for, permission is not.


 
  
 I wouldn't go that far but the WA5/LE is an end game amp.  I just need more time before getting back the WA5.


----------



## koiloco

redcarmoose said:


> I told my Wife after I purchased the W5LE. I told her I had a life threatening disease and it was my last wish. Forgiveness is easy to ask for, permission is not.


 
 As my boys would say to me, "Epic" ...


----------



## bonesnv

I needed to save my life threatening illness excuse for now, so I compromised.


----------



## lojay

redcarmoose said:


> I told my Wife after I purchased the W5LE. I told her I had a life threatening disease and it was my last wish. Forgiveness is easy to ask for, permission is not.




I'm not sure how the BHSE will top it but for now I'm enjoying some of the best headfi I've ever heard every day..


----------



## MacedonianHero

lojay said:


> I'm not sure how the BHSE will top it but for now I'm enjoying some of the best headfi I've ever heard every day..


 
 The BHSE is an electro-static amp for driving Stax headphones like the SR-007/009...the WA5LE is a traditional headphone amp...two very different things.


----------



## kkcc

lojay said:


> I'm not sure how the BHSE will top it but for now I'm enjoying some of the best headfi I've ever heard every day..


 
  
 Are you using the WEE with WA5 to drive your SR009 now? If so, any impression/comments?


----------



## MacedonianHero

kkcc said:


> Are you using the WEE with WA5 to drive your SR009 now? If so, any impression/comments?


 
 The BHSE should "smoke" the WEE / WA5 combination. The latter is a patch work for stats (and does at best an ok job...I've heard the WEE with a few speaker amps). But the BHSE should be one of the top 2 or 3 amps for your SR009s (along with the T2 and KGSSHV).


----------



## lojay

macedonianhero said:


> The BHSE is an electro-static amp for driving Stax headphones like the SR-007/009...the WA5LE is a traditional headphone amp...two very different things.




I know. But WA5 (not the LE) is also a speaker amp which I use to drive my SR009 through the Woo WEE. I don't know if I am the only person here doing this but I have seen some drive the 009 out of speaker amps.

Haven't been using normal headphones on the amp(as in ones that can be sufficiently driven by any headphone amp) in a while, driving HE6 and 009 mainly on a daily basis..


----------



## MacedonianHero

lojay said:


> I know. But WA5 (not the LE) is also a speaker amp which I use to drive my SR009 through the Woo WEE. I don't know if I am the only person here doing this but I have seen some drive the 009 out of speaker amps.
> 
> Haven't been using normal headphones on the amp(as in ones that can be sufficiently driven by any headphone amp) in a while, driving HE6 and 009 mainly on a daily basis..


 
 I just realized that after kkcc's comments. You can read my thoughts on the improvements above...you should really love the BHSE/SR009s!


----------



## lojay

kkcc said:


> Are you using the WEE with WA5 to drive your SR009 now? If so, any impression/comments?







macedonianhero said:


> The BHSE should "smoke" the WEE / WA5 combination. The latter is a patch work for stats (and does at best an ok job...I've heard the WEE with a few speaker amps). But the BHSE should be one of the top 2 or 3 amps for your SR009s (along with the T2 and KGSSHV).




I think it is excellent but I haven't heard the BHSE yet so can't comment. I suppose the best thing about the WA5 and WEE combo is an infinite amount of tube rolling. My WA5 and WEE combo plus premium tubes costs as much as a BHSE and sounds exquisite. It makes the SR009 sound organic and without the "technical" or "clinical" nature of the headphone that some people don't like about the 009.

I think the BHSE is designed to bring the best out of the Staxes and will retrieve a great deal more detail. I plan to keep both and use both for my system, because I can enjoy new music on Spotify with the WA5 & 009 without strangling myself over the poor quality of the recording.

The WEE is not necessarily a patchwork product compared to any specifically designed electrostatic amp though what you say is likely to be true vis-a-vis the BHSE. It depends on what speaker amp you use it with. I can confidently say the 009 became a completely better headphone with the WA5 compared to the Stax SRM007ta it came shipped with. That was one lousy amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

lojay said:


> I think it is excellent but I haven't heard the BHSE yet so can't comment. I suppose the best thing about the WA5 and WEE combo is an infinite amount of tube rolling. My WA5 and WEE combo plus premium tubes costs as much as a BHSE and sounds exquisite. It makes the SR009 sound organic and without the "technical" or "clinical" nature of the headphone that some people don't like about the 009.
> 
> I think the BHSE is designed to bring the best out of the Staxes and will retrieve a great deal more detail. I plan to keep both and use both for my system, because I can enjoy new music on Spotify with the WA5 & 009 without strangling myself over the poor quality of the recording.
> 
> The WEE is not necessarily a patchwork product compared to any specifically designed electrostatic amp though what you say is likely to be true vis-a-vis the BHSE. It depends on what speaker amp you use it with. I can confidently say the 009 became a completely better headphone with the WA5 compared to the Stax SRM007ta it came shipped with. That was one lousy amp.


 
  
 I've heard the WEE with some real top flight speaker amps (McIntosh, Krell) and I always considered it a great short fix to listen to Stax headphones, but never a long term solution (thus my patchwork arguments). The BHSE will blow your mind in comparison. The absolute best I've heard any Stax headphones was from a friend's T2...that was something special indeed!
  
 Agreed on the SRM007a...funny I preferred the SRM727II to it. I hear very good things about the GES though for "bang for your buck performance".


----------



## lojay

macedonianhero said:


> I've heard the WEE with some real top flight speaker amps (McIntosh, Krell) and I always considered it a great short fix to listen to Stax headphones, but never a long term solution (thus my patchwork arguments). The BHSE will blow your mind in comparison. The absolute best I've heard any Stax headphones was from a friend's T2...that was something special indeed!
> 
> Agreed on the SRM007a...funny I preferred the SRM727II to it. I hear very good things about the GES though for "bang for your buck performance".


 
  
 Thanks for those impressions, I am looking into buying a second hand KGSS too, in fact. 
  
 The only thing I don't like about the BHSE is surprise surprise... the looong wait.


----------



## HPiper

Wondering which Woo amp you think would be the best for HD800, Wa6SE or Wa2. Based on what I have read so far I am thinking the Wa2 is probably going to be the better amp for that headphone?


----------



## jc9394

hpiper said:


> Wondering which Woo amp you think would be the best for HD800, Wa6SE or Wa2. Based on what I have read so far I am thinking the Wa2 is probably going to be the better amp for that headphone?




For HD800 only, go with WA2.


----------



## ru4music

jc9394 said:


> For HD800 only, go with WA2.


 
  
  


hpiper said:


> Wondering which Woo amp you think would be the best for HD800, Wa6SE or Wa2. Based on what I have read so far I am thinking the Wa2 is probably going to be the better amp for that headphone?


 
  
  
 WA2


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2


----------



## HPiper

Well if Dubstep Girl says its the Wa2,  then it's the Wa2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks for all the input.


----------



## kazsud

hpiper said:


> Well if Dubstep Girl says its the Wa2,  then it's the Wa2
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Her opinion was part of the equation that led me to get mine.

Btw gec 6as7g + bugle boys + brimar are incredible.


----------



## Stealer

punit said:


> Few more combinations that I like with 596 :
> 
> 
> USAF 596 + GEC 6080 + TSBG 6F8G
> ...







punit said:


> In addition to the one mentioned in the post above, I would also recommend these combinations for WA22:
> 
> 
> Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6AS7G + CV 181
> ...




Still waiting to audition the wa22 (unit still not back from upgrade), 

Which of the the above is suitable for Beyer T1 & Hifiman he560 headphones?
Genres are Classic Rocks, New Age, Jazz and a little of Classical.
Or any suggested combo tubes to narrow down my search...
Greatly appreciated....

PS - wouldn't mind having various sets if tubes for different headphones and genres... Hope this will narrow down the option.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stealer said:


> Still waiting to audition the wa22 (unit still not back from upgrade),
> 
> Which of the the above is suitable for Beyer T1 & Hifiman he560 headphones?
> Genres are Classic Rocks, New Age, Jazz and a little of Classical.
> ...


 
  any of those great rectifiers suits the T1 well. U52, Cossor, and 422A... TS 5998 power tubes for sure, 6F8G, ken rad, or brimars.


----------



## mach5

Just got my Woo Audio WA5-LE with all of the Woo Audio trimmings.  My setup is the WA5-LE, with: 
  
 Sophia Royal Princess 300B power tubes,
 Premium Parts Upgrade,
 Teflon Sockets throughout,
 Sylvania 6SN7GT Drivers and
 General Electric GZ34 rectifier tubes.  
  
 OK.  Listening via Audeze LCD-3 headphones.  Basically, I bought whatever Jack at Woo Audio had for sale and the results have been phenomenal.  
  
 After some false starts with the available Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier tubes (two consecutive pairs arced in the glass, blowing the power supply fuse, and forcing a trip to Radio Shack for replacement fuses!), and a pair of uneven Sylvania drivers, Jack turned me onto the GE GZ34s and the Sylvanias which are all working fine.  Probably a bummer for Jack to handle a total of three returns, but he rallied and came through for me and was further a pleasure to do business with.   Incidentally, the stock Shuguang and Raytheon tubes were stable and reliable.  Anyway, the setup with the GEs and the Sylvanias is wonderful. Lots of separation, clarity, and ample-plus-pleasing bass.
  
 I'd post a picture but I don't have rights yet.  
  
 NZ


----------



## OldSkool

hpiper said:


> Wondering which Woo amp you think would be the best for HD800, Wa6SE or Wa2. Based on what I have read so far I am thinking the Wa2 is probably going to be the better amp for that headphone?


 

 Along with everyone else...WA2 with HD800. Surprisingly, my LCD2.3 sounds great, as well.
  
 My current favorite tube combo is TS5998, RFT EZ80, Mullard CV2493.


----------



## Justin_Time

mach5 said:


> Just got my Woo Audio WA5-LE with all of the Woo Audio trimmings.  My setup is the WA5-LE, with:
> 
> Sophia Royal Princess 300B power tubes,
> Premium Parts Upgrade,
> ...




Yeah, while the Royal Princesses 300B work wonderfully for me, the Princess 274B arced a couple of times in my WA5.

Took the 3A slow-blow fuse with them but what beautiful fireworks!

I'll be looking for the GE now. Thanks!


----------



## bonesnv

mach5 said:


> Just got my Woo Audio WA5-LE with all of the Woo Audio trimmings.  My setup is the WA5-LE, with:
> 
> Sophia Royal Princess 300B power tubes,
> Premium Parts Upgrade,
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on the new amp, hope the fuses quit poppin for yah and you can start to really listen and enjoy it, everyone says the WA5 is one hell of an amp.
  
 Do you feel the Royal Princess' were worth the investment?


----------



## bonesnv

dubstep girl said:


> any of those great rectifiers suits the T1 well. U52, Cossor, and 422A... TS 5998 power tubes for sure, 6F8G, ken rad, or brimars.


 
  
 I love my T1's with the 596/6FD7's in my WA6-SE, no harsh treble as some have described them having and relatively clean bass, but I will be interested to see how everything goes together with the new driver/power tubes when my WA22 gets here.  Planning on using the 596 with TS5998/6F8G combination, so hopefully not a change for the worse by any means.
  
 I want to get a WE422 at some point but the only ones I can find are matched pairs and nobody seems to want to split them up unfortunately and just don't want to spend that kind of money for two, then have to try and sell one.  Still looking daily for that single to pop up somewhere, or a pair of 421's, but will see.  
  
 EDIT:  After my ranting about not finding a single and only pairs, actually had some good communications with a guy and have one now on the way.  See, ranting does work! lol


----------



## amham

mach5 said:


> Just got my Woo Audio WA5-LE with all of the Woo Audio trimmings.  My setup is the WA5-LE, with:
> 
> Sophia Royal Princess 300B power tubes,
> Premium Parts Upgrade,
> ...


 
 I had the same experience with my WA-22.  The Princess 274B blew and the replacement also (taking out the fuse requiring a quick trip to Radio Shack) .  In addition the $330/pair 6S7NGT and 7236's were very noisy.  However, Jack stood behind everything in addition to Sue at Sophia Electric.  Jack replaced all tubes and also followed-up later with an email inquirying if all was OK.  I suggest that Woo tighten up on their testing of the very expensive optional tubes to make the high price worth it.  At the current prices I would think twice.


----------



## kkcc

amham said:


> I had the same experience with my WA-22.  The Princess 274B blew and the replacement also (taking out the fuse requiring a quick trip to Radio Shack) .  In addition the $330/pair 6S7NGT and 7236's were very noisy.  However, Jack stood behind everything in addition to Sue at Sophia Electric.  Jack replaced all tubes and also followed-up later with an email inquirying if all was OK.  I suggest that Woo tighten up on their testing of the very expensive optional tubes to make the high price worth it.  At the current prices I would think twice.


 
  
 I had better experience with the upgrade tubes from Woo.  All worked perfectly fine and not microphonic at all.  Tho the label/markings condition on the tubes themselves were very poor for the price they charged.  I still opted for buying from them despite the high price purely for the aftersales service should I need them as I did got burnt for buying some claimed NOS matched pairs that actually gave me 2 to even 3 db difference between the left and right channels that I need to do split eq to use them.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

mach5 said:


> Just got my Woo Audio WA5-LE with all of the Woo Audio trimmings.  My setup is the WA5-LE, with:
> 
> Sophia Royal Princess 300B power tubes,
> Premium Parts Upgrade,
> ...


 
  
 We're glad everything is sorted out now and the amp is singing nicely.  Thank you for sharing your #WooAudioStories here on Head-Fi.


----------



## mach5

Yes.  I mean I haven't much to compare them to, except to the stock Shuguangs.  I just felt that given the price of admission, it seemed irrational to not get them.  I mean you don't order a Rolls Royce with burlap upholstery... you get the leather!   So I am glad that I invested in all of the premium options.  And it does sound just plain marvelous; that's the main thing.
 NZ


----------



## mach5

bonesnv said:


> Congrats on the new amp, hope the fuses quit poppin for yah and you can start to really listen and enjoy it, everyone says the WA5 is one hell of an amp.
> 
> Do you feel the Royal Princess' were worth the investment?


 
 Yes.  I mean I haven't much to compare them to, except to the stock Shuguangs.  I just felt that given the price of admission, it seemed irrational to not get them.  I mean you don't order a Rolls Royce with burlap upholstery... you get the leather!   So I am glad that I invested in all of the premium options.  And it does sound just plain marvelous; that's the main thing.
 NZ


----------



## mach5

mach5 said:


> Yes.  I mean I haven't much to compare them to, except to the stock Shuguangs.  I just felt that given the price of admission, it seemed irrational to not get them.  I mean you don't order a Rolls Royce with burlap upholstery... you get the leather!   So I am glad that I invested in all of the premium options.  And it does sound just plain marvelous; that's the main thing.
> NZ


 
 This was supposed to go to bonesnv.  Oops, sorry, still learning how to post!!


----------



## mach5

hifiguy528 said:


> We're glad everything is sorted out now and the amp is singing nicely.  Thank you for sharing your #WooAudioStories here on Head-Fi.


 
 You are welcome.  Woo Audio always delivers a stellar product.  This is my second, my first being a WA6-SE which I had for three years.  Nice resale value!  Thanks for that, too!
 NZ


----------



## GloryUprising

hifiguy528 said:


> mach5 said:
> 
> 
> > OK.  Listening via Audeze LCD-3 headphones.  Basically, I bought whatever Jack at Woo Audio had for sale and the results have been phenomenal.
> ...


 
  
 Jack's an upstanding guy, he also took care of me when I had a problem with a bad USAF596


----------



## punit

bonesnv said:


> I love my T1's with the 596/6FD7's in my WA6-SE, no harsh treble as some have described them having and relatively clean bass, but I will be interested to see how everything goes together with the new driver/power tubes when my WA22 gets here.  Planning on using the 596 with TS5998/6F8G combination, so hopefully not a change for the worse by any means.


 
 Here are my notes jotted down when listening to the above combination :
  

USAF 596 + TS 5998 + TSBG 6F8G (Good clarity, good bass, good Sound stage but treble is bright / etchy, fatiguing for long listening)
  
 The above was with HD 800 so I tried it with T1's. The treble was much smoother with T1's.
  

  
  Recommended combo with T1


----------



## david8640

Hi, 
  
 I have a pair of HD650 that I'm using with a Woo Wa6 (not SE) and I'm wondering if I should upgrade my drivers tubes ? What should I choose ? I'm listening to metal and rock on a project Debut III turntable.
 I have these tubes :

5R4GY (Brimar)
6DE7
Sylvania X 2
RCA X 2
Westinghouse X 2

6EW7
Raytheon X 2

  
 Any suggestions 
  
 Thank you


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Here are my notes jotted down when listening to the above combination :
> 
> 
> USAF 596 + TS 5998 + TSBG 6F8G (Good clarity, good bass, good Sound stage but treble is bright / etchy, fatiguing for long listening)
> ...


 
  
  
 Glad to hear that, also be pairing it up with the LCD3's, so can't wait.
  
 I did find a single WE422 as well, so that is on the way.  I might be murdered for buying it before I get to listen to it but we will see.   lol


----------



## punit

bonesnv said:


> I did find a single WE422 as well, so that is on the way.  I might be murdered for buying it before I get to listen to it but we will see.   lol


 
 I am guessing you are married.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> I am guessing you are married.


 
  
 We'll see, lol.


----------



## punit

I am in the same boat


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> I am in the same boat




Surprised that you are still alive after all those packages from USA.


----------



## kkcc

jc9394 said:


> Surprised that you are still alive after all those packages from USA.




Lol... my packages always goes to my office  

shipping to home address is hazardous to our hearing as it would generate excessive high to ultra high frequency day and night noise.


----------



## bonesnv

On that thought of not being murdered, lol, there will likely be a single 422 showing up on eBay, unless the guy ends up just keeping the other one.  So if anyone was looking for one you may want to keep an eye out, they were grey plates for info purposes.


----------



## bonesnv

kkcc said:


> Lol... my packages always goes to my office
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 It's all about that handy FedEx redirect to a local store feature.


----------



## punit

jc9394 said:


> Surprised that you are still alive after all those packages from USA.


 
  


kkcc said:


> Lol... my packages always goes to my office
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 on using the office address. But one day she is bound to notice when your tube collection goes from 5 tubes to 50 tubes. Then you just shrug your shoulders & say "oh, these old used second-hand tubes, they cost around $ 10-20 each".


----------



## kkcc

punit said:


> +1 on using the office address. But one day she is bound to notice when your tube collection goes from 5 tubes to 50 tubes. Then you just shrug your shoulders & say "oh, these old used second-hand tubes, they cost around $ 10-20 each".




Yup tubes are easiest to avoid any scrutinization. I showed her generic 6SN7GTB listings and tell her I will "upgrade" my TS BGRPs to these "nicer ones" next time...  But the wa22 itself was an entire different story. It just look too nice to be not expensive. Maybe an EC or stratus one would slip by easier.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

> Originally Posted by *bonesnv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It's all about that handy FedEx redirect to a local store feature.


 
  
 Yeah, we love that FedEx doesn't charge for that option.  UPS wants $10 from our customers to do that which is why we don't use them.


----------



## joseph69

hifiguy528 said:


> Yeah, we love that FedEx doesn't charge for that option.  UPS wants $10 from our customers to do that which is why we don't use them.


 
 .


----------



## bonesnv

hifiguy528 said:


> Yeah, we love that FedEx doesn't charge for that option.  UPS wants $10 from our customers to do that which is why we don't use them.


 
  
  
 Already re-directed the WA22 as soon as I got the tracking today, lol.  Now I can just grab it on the way home from work on Thursday.
  
 I used to actually pay for that UPS Choice thing they offered customers and it was a huge pain to deal with even with paying them their $10 a month.  I would often re-direct the delivery but then I would get to the store, would always get some non-sense about how they were a privately owned franchise and tried to charge me to pick up my own package.  Cancelled it all immediately after and try to avoid UPS as much as possible.
  
 Also had UPS leave a package sitting on my front porch that was supposed to require a signature, since it was a large cost item.  It sat on my front porch, in clear view, for 5 hours while I was at work.  It was also a heat sensitive item and it's Vegas...go figure.


----------



## koiloco

bonesnv said:


> Already re-directed the WA22 as soon as I got the tracking today, lol.  Now I can just grab it on the way home from work on Thursday.
> 
> I used to actually pay for that UPS Choice thing they offered customers and it was a huge pain to deal with even with paying them their $10 a month.  I would often re-direct the delivery but then I would get to the store, would always get some non-sense about how they were a privately owned franchise and tried to charge me to pick up my own package.  Cancelled it all immediately after and try to avoid UPS as much as possible.
> 
> Also had UPS leave a package sitting on my front porch that was supposed to require a signature, since it was a large cost item.  It sat on my front porch, in clear view, for 5 hours while I was at work.  It was also a heat sensitive item and it's Vegas...go figure.


 
 You will love the WA22


----------



## bonesnv

I know exactly when the post office delivers, yet I still find myself refreshing the tracking pages constantly, like a kid on Christmas.
  
 Should be getting my 422 and my 5998's today, and I'm overly anxious to roll the 422 in my 6SE and check it out.  
  
 Now the wait until next Thursday, going to be such a long week..I might have to go hijack the FedEx truck mid transport, Fast and Furious style.
  
  
  
 Punit, noticed in your pics you have adapters for certain tubes that require the top wire, but saw that you have this white base on all of your tubes in your pics.  Curious what those bases are, teflon adapters?  Or is that just how your particular tube adapters are designed?


----------



## punit

bonesnv said:


> Punit, noticed in your pics you have adapters for certain tubes that require the top wire, but saw that you have this white base on all of your tubes in your pics.  Curious what those bases are, teflon adapters?  Or is that just how your particular tube adapters are designed?


 
 Those are socket savers. I do a lot of tube rolling & didn't want to wear out the WA22 sockets.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Those are socket savers. I do a lot of tube rolling & didn't want to wear out the WA22 sockets.


 
  
 Ah, gotcha.  Do you recall where you got them?  As I do tend to roll tubes a bit based on the headphones I am using or music/genre.  May look into it.


----------



## punit

http://www.tubemonger.com/OCTAL_NOVIB_Socket_Saver_Vibration_Red_GE_OMRON_p/novib-octal%20ge-omron.htm
  
 The WA22 sockets are good quality, so unless you roll tubes on a daily basis you don't need socket savers IMO.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> http://www.tubemonger.com/OCTAL_NOVIB_Socket_Saver_Vibration_Red_GE_OMRON_p/novib-octal%20ge-omron.htm
> 
> The WA22 sockets are good quality, so unless you roll tubes on a daily basis you don't need socket savers IMO.


 
  
 Gotcha, good to have in the back of my mind as I am not that quite active with the tube changes, but a few times a week based on my mood and music I want.  Thanks for the link and info, much appreciated.


----------



## bonesnv

Well, one of my new toys arrived.  I think the postman was slightly frightened by my grin when I opened the door.  Listening to it right now and I am having difficulty wanting to get up and do anything else than keep listening.
  

  
 I honestly was not expecting a really noticeable change from the 596 to the 422 on my 6SE, considering I am using the same driver tubes but it is definitely there.  Everything just seems more, expansive, yet seems to envelop you and suck you into the music, more than the very solid state sounding 596 (at least in the 6SE, heard its warmer in the WA22).  
  
 I suck with audio terminology, DG sums up all the technical stuff way better, so go read that, lol.


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv said:


> Well, one of my new toys arrived.  I think the postman was slightly frightened by my grin when I opened the door.  Listening to it right now and I am having difficulty wanting to get up and do anything else than keep listening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks pretty nice! I use a Woo WA6 with a USAF596 rectifier and S/E 6SN7 drivers. I like this combo quite a bit, but I'm always investigating other options. Where did you find your WE422A?


----------



## bonesnv

bpcans said:


> Looks pretty nice! I use a Woo WA6 with a USAF596 rectifier and S/E 6SN7 drivers. I like this combo quite a bit, but I'm always investigating other options. Where did you find your WE422A?


 
  
 It was an eBay listing, from a US seller, so delivery was very quick.  He was selling a pair but I convinced him to split them up and sell me one.


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv said:


> It was an eBay listing, from a US seller, so delivery was very quick.  He was selling a pair but I convinced him to split them up and sell me one.


I'll keep an eye out for one. Let us know how it sounds after a little burn in. Thanks


----------



## bonesnv

bpcans said:


> I'll keep an eye out for one. Let us know how it sounds after a little burn in. Thanks


 
  
 Yup, for sure.  If I happen to see one show up while I'm lookin 421's, will shoot you over a PM.  Gonna listen to it a bit this weekend but I think I will most likely take it out to roll in my CV593 for the LCD3 burn-in this weekend.  Kind of want to save the new tubes for the WA22, just so I can be like a little kid on Christmas Day and have that experience, like when I got the original Nintendo console, lol.


----------



## Ronnietron

I'll be joining the club too very soon  I will either be getting the WA6 or WA6-SE for my HiFiMAN HE-560. I have auditioned the WA6 while I was in Singapore and absolutely loved it, but now I'm back in Sydney and I don't have a chance to audition the WA6-SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the only store stocking Woo Audio in Australia is all the way in Melbourne..
  
 Of course I am curious to try the WA6-SE before I make my mind but it isn't possible here...


----------



## Silent One

I've not heard the WA6. But that won't stop me from recommending the _WA 6 Special Edition _





over the WA6.
  
 (Previous owner - _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition_)


----------



## Ronnietron

Well, if anyone in Sydney has the SE version and are happy to let me listen to it I'm all ears... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haha


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv said:


> Yup, for sure.  If I happen to see one show up while I'm lookin 421's, will shoot you over a PM.  Gonna listen to it a bit this weekend but I think I will most likely take it out to roll in my CV593 for the LCD3 burn-in this weekend.  Kind of want to save the new tubes for the WA22, just so I can be like a little kid on Christmas Day and have that experience, like when I got the original Nintendo console, lol.


Thank you sir, much appreciated. What was the damage for the WE422a?


----------



## bonesnv

bpcans said:


> Thank you sir, much appreciated. What was the damage for the WE422a?


 
  
 Luckily, the price on mine wasn't super high, as it was a generic box instead of the original WE packaging.  Due to nostalgia, somehow a labeled cardboard box adds to the cost of the tube inside...go figure. 
  
 With that said, expect $500+ for a single, just make sure they provide test results and the information on how they tested it.  Keep an eye out for frauds, ran into a couple during my searches where the photos didn't look quite right and they wouldn't provide test results, if any doubt skip it immediately.


----------



## bonesnv

ronnietron said:


> Well, if anyone in Sydney has the SE version and are happy to let me listen to it I'm all ears...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Come to Vegas and we can have an Irish vs Aussie drinking contest afterwards, lol.


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv said:


> Luckily, the price on mine wasn't super high, as it was a generic box instead of the original WE packaging.  Due to nostalgia, somehow a labeled cardboard box adds to the cost of the tube inside...go figure.
> 
> With that said, expect $500+ for a single, just make sure they provide test results and the information on how they tested it.  Keep an eye out for frauds, ran into a couple during my searches where the photos didn't look quite right and they wouldn't provide test results, if any doubt skip it immediately.


Holy Hanna, that's a lot of skittles. I am not deterred though. I paid $150 for the Sophia Princess and $175 for the USAF 596, so who knows it might be a quantitative leap. I'll have to ask DubstepGirl to see if I'm on kinda the right track. I'll keep on the lookout too. Thanks


----------



## jc9394

bonesnv said:


> Come to Vegas and we can have an Irish vs Aussie drinking contest afterwards, lol.


 
  
  
 Nice to know a Woo fan in Vegas, I used to head to Vegas couple times a year.


----------



## bonesnv

bpcans said:


> Holy Hanna, that's a lot of skittles. I am not deterred though. I paid $150 for the Sophia Princess and $175 for the USAF 596, so who knows it might be a quantitative leap. I'll have to ask DubstepGirl to see if I'm on kinda the right track. I'll keep on the lookout too. Thanks


 
  
 The 596 is an excellent tube, the leap is personal preference really and how into tube rolling you really want to get.  
  
 Personally, I am a tinkerer, ever since I was a little kid, loved taking things a part, working on electronics, building battery powered lego race cars with random motors and parts from Radio Shack.  Things like rolling tubes fits right into my personality, the more I build my collection the more into it I will likely get, it's just fun for me.
  
 If you get one good set of tubes, you really don't need much else though if rolling tubes isn't your thing.  The 596 is quality, through and through, I love mine.
  
 Definitely talk to the others in this thread though about specifics of tubes and combinations, they're all much much more knowledgeable about it than I am, I am still learning from them all and reference their posts all the time.  DG's rectifier comparison thread is also a very beneficial read.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bpcans said:


> Holy Hanna, that's a lot of skittles. I am not deterred though. I paid $150 for the Sophia Princess and $175 for the USAF 596, so who knows it might be a quantitative leap. I'll have to ask DubstepGirl to see if I'm on kinda the right track. I'll keep on the lookout too. Thanks


 
  
 on a WA6 or WA6SE, it might not be worth it due to the high price, the tube costs as much as the WA6 or half the cost of a WA6-SE, however, it is a cut above the rest and might be enough to keep you happy and keep you from upgrading to a costlier amp. the 596 is also quite good on the WA6-SE, the 422A will be different though, much more different than the other rectifiers available, its very pure sounding.
  
 for top level amps, definitely, the tube is the last 5% and if you want the best, its well worth the money.


----------



## Silent One

I'm from the audio camp of buying more than I need presently. And growing (rapidly) into needs (limits) not yet known. That comes from learning and expanding (lust?) in this great hobby. Especially if I live in a far flung place, funds dependent.


----------



## bpcans

dubstep girl said:


> on a WA6 or WA6SE, it might not be worth it due to the high price, the tube costs as much as the WA6 or half the cost of a WA6-SE, however, it is a cut above the rest and might be enough to keep you happy and keep you from upgrading to a costlier amp. the 596 is also quite good on the WA6-SE, the 422A will be different though, much more different than the other rectifiers available, its very pure sounding.
> 
> for top level amps, definitely, the tube is the last 5% and if you want the best, its well worth the money.


Thanks DG for the info. After bonesnv got my interest peaked earlier I knew I had to investigate further. I'm presently using the WA6 now and really liking my present tube combination. That being the case aren't dubious upgrade purchases sometimes par for the course in the audiophile gear game?


----------



## bonesnv

bpcans said:


> Thanks DG for the info. After bonesnv got my interest peaked earlier I knew I had to investigate further. I'm presently using the WA6 now and really liking my present tube combination. That being the case aren't dubious upgrade purchases sometimes par for the course in the audiophile gear game?


 
  
 I only bought the 422 because I have the WA22 coming, I couldn't justify it's purchase to myself for the 6SE.


----------



## bonesnv

jc9394 said:


> Nice to know a Woo fan in Vegas, I used to head to Vegas couple times a year.


 
  
 Born and raised, stayed because of heat induced insanity.


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv said:


> I only bought the 422 because I have the WA22 coming, I couldn't justify it's purchase to myself for the 6SE.


Congrats on getting the WA22. I gotta learn to be more happy with what I have instead of looking over at the condition of the neighbours yard.


----------



## kchew

Congrats on getting the WA22 and WE422, they are a great combination! What other driver and power tubes will you be using with them?


----------



## bonesnv

kchew said:


> Congrats on getting the WA22 and WE422, they are a great combination! What other driver and power tubes will you be using with them?


 
  
 TS 5998's and TSBG 6F8G's per recommendations, at least to start with.


----------



## daverich4

bonesnv said:


> I only bought the 422 because I have the WA22 coming, I couldn't justify it's purchase to myself for the 6SE.




I'm curious to hear how the 422a works out for you. It's my favorite rectifier in my WA22 . To me it seems to produce a larger soundstage, almost three dimensional with some music. However, in my WA22, all 3 of the 422a's that I have produce a light hum, even on the low gain setting. It's not loud enough to intrude on the music but it's still there. My Sophia Princess & 596 rectifiers are dead quiet. I've never heard anyone else mention a hum with the 422a /WA22 combination so maybe it's just me. As I said, curious to hear how it works out for you.


----------



## 2359glenn

daverich4 said:


> bonesnv said:
> 
> 
> > I only bought the 422 because I have the WA22 coming, I couldn't justify it's purchase to myself for the 6SE.
> ...


 

 You need an adapter that reverses pins 2 & 8 for a WE422A to work properly with out introducing hum


----------



## bonesnv

2359glenn said:


> You need an adapter that reverses pins 2 & 8 for a WE422A to work properly with out introducing hum


 
  
 Is this only relevant for the WA22?


----------



## 2359glenn

No all amps.
 Normally the DC is taken off pin 8 this is were the cathode is hooked to in tubes like GZ34 GZ37.
 The WE422A has the cathode connected to pin 2 so the 5 volt AC filament voltage is added to the
 DC output.


----------



## bonesnv

2359glenn said:


> No all amps.
> Normally the DC is taken off pin 8 this is were the cathode is hooked to in tubes like GZ34 GZ37.
> The WE422A has the cathode connected to pin 2 so the 5 volt AC filament voltage is added to the
> DC output.


 
  
 Interesting, didn't hear a hum on the 6SE but didn't keep it in for to long so doubt I would have noticed.  Will keep an eye out for it on the WA22.
  
 Out of curiosity, is this an adapter one might be able to get from you, should I notice the hum?


----------



## daverich4

2359glenn said:


> You need an adapter that reverses pins 2 & 8 for a WE422A to work properly with out introducing hum




Kind of wish I'd mentioned the hum to the group before I bought 3 different 422a's trying to get one that didn't hum. For some reason I've never seen a mention of an adapter for the 422. I'm under the impression you sell some kinds of adapters, any chance you sell that one? Or know someone that does? Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

PM me


daverich4 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You need an adapter that reverses pins 2 & 8 for a WE422A to work properly with out introducing hum
> ...


 
  
 I have mentioned this before not sure were.
  
 PM me


----------



## joseph69

[img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/da/100x100px-LS-da0864d8_P1000588.jpeg[/img]
 
joseph69





 
*online*
 
2,146 Posts. Joined 10/2012
 


   Received the WA6/6SN7 adapters this morning!
 This afternoon I packed the 6-SE with all original content from Woo + a NOS Mullard GZ34 and NOS GE 6FD7's/NOS Syvania 6DR7's.
 Afterwards I unpacked my WA6 and put the wood side panels/tube plate/aluminum bezels, and this time took off the aluminum transformer cover and just used the wood cover for a lower/sleeker look…then popped in the 596/NOS 1962 6SN7WGTA's and have been burning-in/listening with the RS1i's for about 4hrs, and I'm so glad to have my old set-up back…just can't wait to pass the 200hr mark for it too really shine like my previous one.
  
 I will be listing my less than 2 month old 6-SE in 10/10 condition with about 60-80hrs on it, and the tubes mentioned above which all have about 30-40hrs on them, on the F/S Forum for a few days…if I don't get any replies I will put it up for bids on eBay. If anyone is interested before it goes to eBay, send me a PM. Here are some photos.
  



  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  


     Headphones: Grado RS1i/SR325is/SR80i
 Amplifiers: Woo Audio WA6-SE/Schiit Magni
 D/A Converters: Rega/Meridian-203/Schiit Modi
 Sources: MacBookPro 13"/Sony CDP-C601ES
 Power Control: Adcom ACE-515 Line Conditioner/Surge Protecter/Power On-Off Delay


----------



## dsd-7

Aww man, I just bought my first Woo Audio product (WA6).  I am really enjoying it, but would have probably been interested in this SE version if I would have seen this first.  GLWS


----------



## bpcans

dsd-7 said:


> Aww man, I just bought my first Woo Audio product (WA6).  I am really enjoying it, but would have probably been interested in this SE version if I would have seen this first.  GLWS


It's not too late, there are options available.


----------



## dsd-7

Yea, the thought of selling my WA6 crossed my mind. However I have yet to tube roll with it. I am really happy so far with the stock tubes. I want to listen to it and tube roll for a while before deciding to move to the SE version. I read some reviews saying the improvements are subtle, while other reviews claim the upgrade in sonic quality is very apparent. I guess its like everything else in this hobby, system dependent.


----------



## bbophead

dsd-7 said:


> Yea, the thought of selling my WA6 crossed my mind. However I have yet to tube roll with it. I am really happy so far with the stock tubes. I want to listen to it and tube roll for a while before deciding to move to the SE version. I read some reviews saying the improvements are subtle, while other reviews claim the upgrade in sonic quality is very apparent. I guess its like everything else in this hobby, system dependent.


 
 I'm so happy with my WA6 after tube rolling that the SE does not interest me.  Besides, too much real estate.  Mine's all tucked in.


----------



## dsd-7

Love it! Beautiful setup. Here's mine next to my Cary preamplifier. My Philips 5R4GYS rectifier is freshly opened and installed this morning from Upscale Audio. Let the tube rolling begin!


----------



## bpcans

bbophead said:


> I'm so happy with my WA6 after tube rolling that the SE does not interest me.  Besides, too much real estate.  Mine's all tucked in.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I hear ya brother about the real estate one would need to devote to the WA6-SE. What turned me toward the WA6 was when I checked their comparative shipping weights.


----------



## bbophead

bpcans said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > I'm so happy with my WA6 after tube rolling that the SE does not interest me.  Besides, too much real estate.  Mine's all tucked in.
> ...


 
 Can't say as I've ever let shipping weights determine an audio purchase.  Interesting.


----------



## bpcans

bbophead said:


> Can't say as I've ever let shipping weights determine an audio purchase.  Interesting.


I was determining if I had any small tables to put it on for a listening station.


----------



## bonesnv

Well, I received a very surprising call from FedEx, to let me know I had a package waiting.  Low and behold, 2 days earlier than expected, the WA22 arrived.
  
 The somewhat less good news, the 6F8G adapters that got shipped with it aren't due to show up until Thursday.  So, have to use a couple stock tubes for now but I'm sure I will find a way to manage, lol.
  
 Either way, time to go hook up new toys.


----------



## Ronnietron

dsd-7 said:


> Aww man, I just bought my first Woo Audio product (WA6).  I am really enjoying it, but would have probably been interested in this SE version if I would have seen this first.  GLWS


 
  
 Well don't worry man, depending on your equipment setup sometimes the slightly warmer sound of the WA6 may be better


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> Well, I received a very surprising call from FedEx, to let me know I had a package waiting.  Low and behold, 2 days earlier than expected, the WA22 arrived.
> 
> The somewhat less good news, the 6F8G adapters that got shipped with it aren't due to show up until Thursday.  So, have to use a couple stock tubes for now but I'm sure I will find a way to manage, lol.
> 
> Either way, time to go hook up new toys.


 
 Oh so nice!  Happy for you.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

bonesnv said:


> Well, I received a very surprising call from FedEx, to let me know I had a package waiting.  Low and behold, 2 days earlier than expected, the WA22 arrived.
> 
> The somewhat less good news, the 6F8G adapters that got shipped with it aren't due to show up until Thursday.  So, have to use a couple stock tubes for now but I'm sure I will find a way to manage, lol.
> 
> Either way, time to go hook up new toys.


 
  
 What headphones will you be using?  I love the WA22 with AKG K812.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joseph69 said:


> [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/da/100x100px-LS-da0864d8_P1000588.jpeg[/img]
> 
> joseph69
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm jelly.  I have WA6, but now I want WA6-SE.


----------



## joseph69

hifiguy528 said:


> I'm jelly.  I have WA6, but now I want WA6-SE.


 
 I have one for sale at a real nice price!


----------



## bonesnv

hifiguy528 said:


> What headphones will you be using?  I love the WA22 with AKG K812.


 
  
 LCD3's, T1's and the Alpha's.
  
 Only ones I have really played with so far are the LCD3's, its the newness factor partially but they are damn fun listen to.  Should have all my adapters today so will really get to do solid listening this weekend with everything.
  
 Now I gotta figure out what to do with the 6SE, whether I want to take it back to work or try and recoup some cost.  It's such a beautiful piece of equipment with the black color and the tubes glowing.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> hifiguy528 said:
> 
> 
> > What headphones will you be using?  I love the WA22 with AKG K812.
> ...


 
 It will probably be hard to give up a beautiful sounding piece of art.


----------



## bonesnv

$$$ are a beautiful piece of art too.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> $$$ are a beautiful piece of art too.


 
 As long as you're buying another beautiful piece of art.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Eschew ugly.


----------



## bonesnv

bbophead said:


> As long as you're buying another beautiful piece of art.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Probably just more tattoos.
  
  
 EDIT:  Got all of my adapters now, 6F8G's, the 422 from Glenn (who is great to work with), so can't wait to get home and listen.  Also got the socket savers from TubeMonger today.  I know they are not a requirement but I figured for a small investment, why not make sure I do what I can to protect the amp, so I pulled the trigger on them, especially since I know myself and my OCD/ADHD.  It is bound to happen that I will end up with more tubes and will fidget with things.
  
 Now with everything installed:  
  


  
  
 By the way, it sounds phenomenal, especially the 422, and the adapter does make a difference.  Much more burn-in time to go to really open it up but I am awestruck by how it sounds.  Rotating between Smoke and Mirrors Percussion and Paco de Lucia at the moment and I have yet to find anything that didn't make me go "wow".  The 6F8G's make a big difference too over the stock tubes that get shipped with the amp.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > As long as you're buying another beautiful piece of art.
> ...


 
 I think you've got it nailed.


----------



## punit

Congrats bonesnv





. Still early days I know , but which do you prefer for T1's - WA6 SE or WA22 ?


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Congrats bonesnv
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Out of the few songs I tried, I could tell straight away, the WA22.  The 6SE made them far to bright for my personal tastes and without using the 6GL7 tubes they were almost a bit fatiguing to wear for a lot of songs and I was considering selling them.  The WA22 cut back all of that harsh brightness and opened them up quite a bit more, so now I am second guessing that thought of selling them.  Will listen more this weekend for sure.
  
 Most of my listening right now is with the LCD3's.  They sounded good out of the 6SE, but they sound phenomenal out of the WA22.


----------



## koiloco

bonesnv said:


> Out of the few songs I tried, I could tell straight away, the WA22.  The 6SE made them far to bright for my personal tastes and without using the 6GL7 tubes they were almost a bit fatiguing to wear for a lot of songs and I was considering selling them.  The WA22 cut back all of that harsh brightness and opened them up quite a bit more, so now I am second guessing that thought of selling them.  Will listen more this weekend for sure.
> 
> Most of my listening right now is with the LCD3's.  They sounded good out of the 6SE, but they sound phenomenal out of the WA22.


 

 WA22 is indeed a great amp at the right price.


----------



## daverich4

daverich4 said:


> I'm curious to hear how the 422a works out for you. It's my favorite rectifier in my WA22 . To me it seems to produce a larger soundstage, almost three dimensional with some music. However, in my WA22, all 3 of the 422a's that I have produce a light hum, even on the low gain setting. It's not loud enough to intrude on the music but it's still there. My Sophia Princess & 596 rectifiers are dead quiet. I've never heard anyone else mention a hum with the 422a /WA22 combination so maybe it's just me. As I said, curious to hear how it works out for you.


 
  
  


2359glenn said:


> You need an adapter that reverses pins 2 & 8 for a WE422A to work properly with out introducing hum


 
  
 I bought the adapter from Glenn and he was 100% right. My amp with the WE422a has absolutely no hum at all when using his adapter, even when using the high gain setting. My favorite rectifier? Now even better!


----------



## bonesnv

daverich4 said:


> I bought the adapter from Glenn and he was 100% right. My amp with the WE422a has absolutely no hum at all when using his adapter, even when using the high gain setting. My favorite rectifier? Now even better!


 
  
 This x 2


----------



## 2359glenn

Using this tube in amps not made for it and none are unless you have some old WE gear.
 Puts stress on the input capacitor of the power supply by butting more ripple current through the capacitor.
 Using a tube just because it fits lights up and works to some extent is not the thing to do.
 Even though it might be recommended by others that have limited knowledge of tubes.
  
 I am glad I was able to help you guys out It is a great tube when hooked up right one of the best.


----------



## kazsud

Can someone tell me if there are socket savers for 6as7?


----------



## Ronnietron

Well, I'm happy to say that I am now a proud owner of a WA6 with the Sophia Electric rectifier tube upgrade.  But as of now I'm loving the sound from the stock rectifier tube!! Amazing unit... I have yet to try the Sophia, but I think I will do so much later on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm enjoying the music far too much to bother changing it at this moment


----------



## joseph69

ronnietron said:


> Well, I'm happy to say that I am now a proud owner of a WA6 with the Sophia Electric rectifier tube upgrade.  But as of now I'm loving the sound from the stock rectifier tube!! Amazing unit... I have yet to try the Sophia, but I think I will do so much later on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations on the WA6!
 Enjoy!


----------



## bonesnv

kazsud said:


> Can someone tell me if there are socket savers for 6as7?


 
  
 It's an octal so you can use the ones that got linked earlier from TubeMonger.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Congrats bonesnv
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yah know, I still don't love them, and I am really trying to.  I just kind of "like" them and only for certain songs.  The T1's just don't seem to engage me the way the Alpha's or LCD's do.  I want to love them, but it appears that reference style headphones just aren't my style, I need that warmth and fullness to the sound which I just don't get with them.
  
 Going to hang on to them until everything is broken in and will give them a few more goes, maybe with some different tubes, but will probably end up selling them with the 6SE.


----------



## punit

Of all My HP's the one with the most amazing synergy with WA22 is the HD 800. Have you tried them ?


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Of all My HP's the one with the most amazing synergy with WA22 is the HD 800. Have you tried them ?


 
  
 Have yet to try the HD800's yet, don't really have anywhere local to try them so I would have to drive to California or Arizona and test them out.  
 Granted, didn't test the LCDs or any of the other headphones first, so I guess that's a pointless comparison...


----------



## longbowbbs

bonesnv said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > Of all My HP's the one with the most amazing synergy with WA22 is the HD 800. Have you tried them ?
> ...


 
 I can appreciate not having access to Woo gear. I managed to make it to Axpona this Spring and took my HD800's with Toxic Silver Widow balanced cables with me. I spent a bunch of time with the WA22 and it was a wonderful pairing even with stock tubes. Great sound and very Steampunk....I liked it.


----------



## bonesnv

I like headphones that make me feel surrounded.  The T1's don't seem to encase me enough to make me feel like I am an actual part of the music.  The Alphas and LCD's with their leather pads just envelop you into them, which I love.  I have fallen asleep on the couch numerous times with them listening to some Clapton, Muse or Tool, but the T1's I just always know they're on my head and I know I have headphones on.
  
 I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, if it does, do you feel the HD800's surround you in that way?


----------



## longbowbbs

bonesnv said:


> I like headphones that make me feel surrounded.  The T1's don't seem to encase me enough to make me feel like I am an actual part of the music.  The Alphas and LCD's with their leather pads just envelop you into them, which I love.  I have fallen asleep on the couch numerous times with them listening to some Clapton, Muse or Tool, but the T1's I just always know they're on my head and I know I have headphones on.
> 
> I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, if it does, do you feel the HD800's surround you in that way?


 
 They are the signal most immersive Headphone I have ever heard.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I like my T1s best on my WA2, prefer it over my 6se and 22.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > Of all My HP's the one with the most amazing synergy with WA22 is the HD 800. Have you tried them ?
> ...


 
 I believe amazon sells HD800s with 30 day return priviledges.  HTH.


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 Ditto on that. The soundstage still blows me away after a year of ownership. It's hard to listen to anything else after owning the HD800.  
 Though I did have a chance to briefly audition the new HE560 today.  I preferred it to the LCD-X and think that would be a great complimentary HP to the HD800 without giving up too much. 
  
  
 Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> They are the signal most immersive Headphone I have ever heard.


----------



## longbowbbs

mickeyvee said:


> +1 Ditto on that. The soundstage still blows me away after a year of ownership. It's hard to listen to anything else after owning the HD800.
> Though I did have a chance to briefly audition the new HE560 today.  I preferred it to the LCD-X and think that would be a great complimentary HP to the HD800 without giving up too much.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wish I could hear any HiFi-Man HP's....No one near me has any. Some day I will get some on my head.


----------



## bbophead

longbowbbs said:


> mickeyvee said:
> 
> 
> > +1 Ditto on that. The soundstage still blows me away after a year of ownership. It's hard to listen to anything else after owning the HD800.
> ...


 
 Sorry if I'm hammering this too hard and often (that's what she said!) but amazon does sell these with a 30 day return guarantee.


----------



## longbowbbs

bbophead said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > mickeyvee said:
> ...


 
 Ha! Slippery slope if ever there was one....


----------



## bonesnv

Amazon is a pain usually to deal with for stuff like that.  However, if you want to buy my 6SE and T1's you can fund the HD800 purchase for me, then I can let you know how they sound.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> Amazon is a pain usually to deal with for stuff like that.  However, if you want to buy my 6SE and T1's you can fund the HD800 purchase for me, then I can let you know how they sound.


 
 I've had no pains with amazon and I'm not particularly lucky.


----------



## Silent One

longbowbbs said:


> I wish I could hear any HiFi-Man HP's....No one near me has any. Some day I will get some on my head.


 
 Just HiFiMAN's latest cans or does your wish include the very easy to drive easy to listen HE-6?


----------



## longbowbbs

silent one said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I could hear any HiFi-Man HP's....No one near me has any. Some day I will get some on my head.
> ...


 
 Frankly, the HE-6 would be fun to try. I want to see what Preproman has been shouting about.... I do not know what the power output is from the HP SE jack on my SLI-80. I will have to drop Cary a note and see if they have measured it.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> Of all My HP's the one with the most amazing synergy with WA22 is the HD 800. Have you tried them ?




X2000000000


----------



## kkcc

jc9394 said:


> X2000000000


 
  
 X2000000001


----------



## Silent One

The only time I ever sat in with the HD800 for the night, it was paired with a WA22.


----------



## punit

longbowbbs said:


> Frankly, the HE-6 would be fun to try. I want to see what Preproman has been shouting about.... I do not know what the power output is from the HP SE jack on my SLI-80. I will have to drop Cary a note and see if they have measured it.


 

 Try from the Speaker Taps also.


----------



## longbowbbs

punit said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly, the HE-6 would be fun to try. I want to see what Preproman has been shouting about.... I do not know what the power output is from the HP SE jack on my SLI-80. I will have to drop Cary a note and see if they have measured it.
> ...


 
 When I get a pair I will try both options.


----------



## Ronnietron

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations on the WA6!
> Enjoy!


 
 Thank you my friend!


----------



## bonesnv

bbophead said:


> Sorry if I'm hammering this too hard and often (that's what she said!) but amazon does sell these with a 30 day return guarantee.


 
  
 It's definitely tempting to test them out.  Will need to wait until I get a few auctions up and some items sold off.  Gotta go read all the rules and what not on the auction forums still and take a bunch of photos.
  
 I may make a weekend trip out to San Diego and find a shop, all we got here is Best Buy and they really only go so far as the Momentum's pretty much.  We did get a new shop here in town though that apparently has all of the Grado series and is getting into the market, so got to check them out.
  
 On a WA22 note, listened to Deep Purple Made in Japan last night, both the remastered and original through the Alpha Dog's and LCDs, it felt like I was at the concert. When you get goosebumps from the music you're listening to, you then know it was all worth it.


----------



## Stereolab42

Love the Woos I heard at the SF meet but need to ask a practical question... how hot do these tubes really get? Hot enough to burn skin? Hot enough to constitute a fire hazard if paper/cloth/plastic accidentally falls on them? I wasn't brave enough to actually try to touch them. I have cats that like to crawl over everything so I can't have stuff exposed that might be dangerous. Maybe somebody has invented a wire mesh or cage to cover amps or tubes like this?


----------



## bbophead

stereolab42 said:


> Love the Woos I heard at the SF meet but need to ask a practical question... how hot do these tubes really get? Hot enough to burn skin? Hot enough to constitute a fire hazard if paper/cloth/plastic accidentally falls on them? I wasn't brave enough to actually try to touch them. I have cats that like to crawl over everything so I can't have stuff exposed that might be dangerous. Maybe somebody has invented a wire mesh or cage to cover amps or tubes like this?


 
 Yes, they get very hot.  If you're worried about the cats, they're pretty smart.  The Woos don't come with cages, you would just have to be careful about what's around them.


----------



## GrindingThud

It gets as hot as a light bulb.


----------



## kazsud

grindingthud said:


> It gets as hot as a light bulb.




+1


----------



## DMSDMS

Hi guys, there a Woo audio event this weekend at AV ONE, Meet Jack Wu himself. More details here:
  
  
 31st July 3-6pm
  
 AV ONE
 1 Coleman Street
 The Adelphi #01-10
  
 https://www.facebook.com/av1group?ref=hl


----------



## DMSDMS

hey guys, there is a Woo audio Event happening at AV ONE this weekend 31th July 3-6pm. Meet Jack Wu there himself!! Any one attending?
  
 1 Coleman Street
 The Adelphi #01-10


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stereolab42 said:


> Love the Woos I heard at the SF meet but need to ask a practical question... how hot do these tubes really get? Hot enough to burn skin? Hot enough to constitute a fire hazard if paper/cloth/plastic accidentally falls on them? I wasn't brave enough to actually try to touch them. I have cats that like to crawl over everything so I can't have stuff exposed that might be dangerous. Maybe somebody has invented a wire mesh or cage to cover amps or tubes like this?


 
  
 the woos don't seem to run tubes as hot as some other tube amps can, but they still get quite hot. they will definitely burn if you touch them for too long. you can probably lay your finger on them for like a split second, i used to remove some of the smaller tubes this way, touching the cooler parts of the tube, but they should be allowed to cool off or use something to touch them with to avoid burning yourself.
  
 i don't think they are a fire hazard unless you did leave something flammable next to them for prolonged periods of time. its not like it will instantly ignite, but use common sense and keep papers and furniture, carpet, clothes, cats, etc away from them.
  
 in particular, the power tubes seem to get the hottest


----------



## punit

Hi DG, long time no see. How's it going with the WA5. Got to try them with HD 800 yet ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Hi DG, long time no see. How's it going with the WA5. Got to try them with HD 800 yet ?


 
  
 things are great with the WA5, I tried them with an HD 800 at the recent chicago meet, it was about as good as you can imagine.


----------



## Ronnietron

dmsdms said:


> hey guys, there is a Woo audio Event happening at AV ONE this weekend 31th July 3-6pm. Meet Jack Wu there himself!! Any one attending?
> 
> 1 Coleman Street
> The Adelphi #01-10


 
  
 Just after I leave Singapore after purchasing the HE-560 from AV ONE and WA6 LOL Would have loved to meet Jack Wu.. Oh wells


----------



## Nic Rhodes

No issues with cats for 30 years of valves....


----------



## Stereolab42

Do people find the W22 worth it over the WA6-SE? Specs are similar; WA22 has balanced ins/outs but I consider that a convenience rather than a SQ factor. Other major difference (besides price, of course) is the WA22 has separate power/drive tubes whereas the WA6-SE doesn't. I don't yet pretend to understand the different roles of those two functions in a tube amp (and Google is not very helpful) but on the surface it seems like it would be a major complication in the life of tube rollers... one that would be justified only if much greater SQ can be obtained. Any thoughts?


----------



## koiloco

^ if you are not going to run balanced input > WA22, go with WA6 SE.  With SE connection, the WA22 doesn't sound better than WA6-SE.  With balanced input, to my ears and IMO, the WA22 clearly beats the WA6-SE but honestly, not by a huge amount.  WA6-SE is a fine amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> ^ if you are not going to run balanced input > WA22, go with WA6 SE.  With SE connection, the WA22 doesn't sound better than WA6-SE.  With balanced input, to my ears and IMO, the WA22 clearly beats the WA6-SE but honestly, not by a huge amount.  WA6-SE is a fine amp.


 
  
  
  


stereolab42 said:


> Do people find the W22 worth it over the WA6-SE? Specs are similar; WA22 has balanced ins/outs but I consider that a convenience rather than a SQ factor. Other major difference (besides price, of course) is the WA22 has separate power/drive tubes whereas the WA6-SE doesn't. I don't yet pretend to understand the different roles of those two functions in a tube amp (and Google is not very helpful) but on the surface it seems like it would be a major complication in the life of tube rollers... one that would be justified only if much greater SQ can be obtained. Any thoughts?


 
  
  
  
  
 depends, I think WA22 is better when running fully balanced and with maxed out tubes, otherwise, the WA6-SE is almost as good, and perhaps better with a few headphones if the WA22 isn't maxed.


----------



## bonesnv

So running into a slight problem, definitely amp related but unsure if it is the amp or tubes.
  
 I suddenly started getting some loud static in my left ear last night.  I switched everything off and tried various combinations, if I use the stock 6080's with the 6F8G's, I get static.  If I use the 5998's with the stock 6SN7's I get static.  If I use all stock I get no static, the recitifier doesn't seem to change anything one way or the other, I switched out between the 422, 596 and CV593, no static with stock tubes.
  
 Took out all of the tubes, used some compressed air and took out all of the tube savers, put everything back in place and now no very loud static, unless I turn the volume way past listening point, but there still seems to be noise in the left ear.
  
 So, me being me, what would be the root cause of this?  I tried switching the driver and power tubes to opposite sides, but always in the left ear.  Also, I noticed that with the volume up I get a hum with or without the 422 adapter in place.  At normal listening volumes, no hum.
  
 I haven't tried putting the tube savers back in, currently using the 596 as well with the 6F8G's and 5998's, does not appear to be an issue but am getting some very minor noise in the left ear.  Also tried multiple headphones, single ended and XLR.
  
 EDIT:  Well I give up, now it is not making humming noises or anything of the sort using the 422 adapter, or any tube combination.  Maybe I had it on for to long on Saturday?  Was on for 5-6 hours before I started noticing it.


----------



## Stereolab42

koiloco said:


> ^ if you are not going to run balanced input > WA22, go with WA6 SE.  With SE connection, the WA22 doesn't sound better than WA6-SE.  With balanced input, to my ears and IMO, the WA22 clearly beats the WA6-SE but honestly, not by a huge amount.  WA6-SE is a fine amp.


 


dubstep girl said:


> depends, I think WA22 is better when running fully balanced and with maxed out tubes, otherwise, the WA6-SE is almost as good, and perhaps better with a few headphones if the WA22 isn't maxed.


 
  
 Yeah, I've read that if one uses the RCA inputs on the WA22 only half the amp is operating since there is no "phase splitter". However I do have a DAC with balanced outputs and don't imagine ever owning one that wouldn't have such given the DAC price points I'm comfortable with.
  
 Adding up costs, a fully-maxed WA22 would be $2645 versus a WA6-SE at $1366. Certainly the WA6-SE makes more logical sense given that people think the SQ difference is real but small; but dayum, the WA22 is so sexy with all those tubes. I have some thinking to do.


----------



## bonesnv

I think the WA22 in balanced mode is definitely a step above the 6SE, as others have said.  It feels much more expansive and almost 3 dimensional with premium tubes.  Like I said in an earlier post, if music gives me goosebumps then I know I made the right decision. 
  
 If going unbalanced, 6SE is basically awesome.  I didn't have a single complaint about it, I just wanted to go that next step up and had a specific need/purpose.


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> Yeah, I've read that if one uses the RCA inputs on the WA22 only half the amp is operating since there is no "phase splitter". However I do have a DAC with balanced outputs and don't imagine ever owning one that wouldn't have such given the DAC price points I'm comfortable with.
> 
> Adding up costs, a fully-maxed WA22 would be $2645 versus a WA6-SE at $1366. Certainly the WA6-SE makes more logical sense given that people think the SQ difference is real but small; but dayum,* the WA22 is so sexy with all those tubes. I have some thinking to do.*


 
 I was in your shoes not too long ago and ended up going with WA22.  Don't forget that the WA22 has imp selector which is quite versatile in matching your HPs.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> I think the WA22 in balanced mode is definitely a step above the 6SE, as others have said.  It feels much more expansive and almost 3 dimensional with premium tubes.  Like I said in an earlier post, if music gives me goosebumps then I know I made the right decision.
> 
> If going unbalanced, 6SE is basically awesome.  I didn't have a single complaint about it, I just wanted to go that next step up and had a specific need/purpose.


 
 I see you own both the WA6-6SE (I also do at the moment, but I'm selling the 6SE)…just curious about your opinion about the differences between these two amps that you hear, and also if you prefer one more than the other, and why.
 Thanks
  


koiloco said:


> I was in your shoes not too long ago and ended up going with WA22.  Don't forget that the WA22 has imp selector which is quite versatile in matching your HPs.


 
 Both the WA6 (selector switch) 6SE (headphone outputs) have low/high impedance. selector/headphone output


----------



## kkcc

On the single ended vs balanced input, I had recently checked with Jack and he mentioned that for the "latest WA22, they have included a RCA to XLR phase splitter circuit built into the amp and we should get similar performance from RCA and XLR inputs. However, the XLR will sound cleaner and more open since it does not pass through the phase splitter circuit."

Do we know if most WA22 has this phase splitter, or this is a more recent change?


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> I see you own both the WA6-6SE (I also do at the moment, but I'm selling the 6SE)…just curious about your opinion about the differences between these two amps that you hear, and also if you prefer one more than the other, and why.
> Thanks
> 
> Both the WA6 (selector switch) 6SE (headphone outputs) have low/high impedance. selector/headphone output


 
  
 The WA22 in balanced mode has a much more expansive sound stage.  Listening to music using the premium tubes available, it is like being right at the concert, or sitting in the studio during the recording process as the band plays for you.  The 6SE was an enjoyable amp but I found it solid state sounding, no matter the tubes I chose short of maybe the CV593.  Yes, it sounded fantastic and not knocking it at all, had I not wanted balanced I would have kept it as my primary and probably continued to be happy as a clam, but I made a plunge and don't regret it in the least.
  
 The WA22 just seems to bring out the subtle nuances of the music more than 6SE, it just does everything just a bit better where all of it kind of just adds up to amazing.  I honestly really suck at describing sound signatures, so not sure I am the person to ask for comparisons.  
 To me, the difference was not subtle though between the two amps.  The WA22 sounds superior on every level on every song I have listened to.
  
  
 Listening to Muse - 2nd Law at the moment, not even a huge Muse fan but this album is just pure fun to listen to on this amp.  Same with any Pink Floyd, Tool, Deep Purple, etc, etc.
  
 Still don't like the T1's, sorry to all the fans, I tried.  Just ain't my style, can't seem to listen to them for more than a few specific songs.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> The WA22 in balanced mode has a much more expansive sound stage.  Listening to music using the premium tubes available, it is like being right at the concert, or sitting in the studio during the recording process as the band plays for you.  The 6SE was an enjoyable amp but I found it solid state sounding, no matter the tubes I chose short of maybe the CV593.  Yes, it sounded fantastic and not knocking it at all, had I not wanted balanced I would have kept it as my primary and probably continued to be happy as a clam, but I made a plunge and don't regret it in the least.
> 
> The WA22 just seems to bring out the subtle nuances of the music more than 6SE, it just does everything just a bit better where all of it kind of just adds up to amazing.  I honestly really suck at describing sound signatures, so not sure I am the person to ask for comparisons.
> To me, the difference was not subtle though between the two amps.  The WA22 sounds superior on every level on every song I have listened to.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the reply…but I was asking about how you felt about the WA6 compared th the 6SE, not the WA22.
 Anyway, I totally agree with you about the 6SE sounding more like a SS amp, which I'm in no way am I knocking either…but I preferred the WA6 due to it sounding more like a tube amp with the 6SN7's, which the 6SE does not accept, and like you, no matter which tube combos I died, it still sounded like a SS amp to me, with the closest combo for my liking with the SP/6FD7's…using Grado RS1i's.
 Thanks


----------



## Stereolab42

bonesnv said:


> The 6SE was an enjoyable amp but I found it solid state sounding, no matter the tubes I chose short of maybe the CV593.


 
 Interesting. In that case I will definitely rule out the 6SE in favor of the 22 because I already have great solid-state amps. The 22 I heard at the SF meet definitely had a liquid, tubed quality that was intoxicating. (The Schiit Valhalla 2 was the same way but it does not offer enough power.)


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for the reply…but I was asking about how you felt about the WA6 compared th the 6SE, not the WA22.
> Anyway, I totally agree with you about the 6SE sounding more like a SS amp, which I'm in no way am I knocking either…but I preferred the WA6 due to it sounding more like a tube amp with the 6SN7's, which the 6SE does not accept, and like you, no matter which tube combos I died, it still sounded like a SS amp to me, with the closest combo for my liking with the SP/6FD7's…using Grado RS1i's.
> Thanks


 
  
 Umm, I don't and have never owned a WA6, haven't even heard one, so no clue on how the two compare sound wise.
  
 Assumed you were referring to amps I actually had.


----------



## Silent One

@ bonesnv
  
 I think you got the _WooAudio WA22_ versus the _WA 6 Special Edition_ quite right. I'm a former owner of the latter and have sat with the former a couple of times. A couple of years ago and maybe one more, I sought to go from the _Special Edition_ up to the WA22. Tried to scoop up a Black one pre-owned but lucky for me I could neither buy one or pry one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This gave me the opportunity to sit back and rethink my desire and strategy. When the smoke cleared I decided it was better for me to leap frog the '22' w/premium tubes and get a pre-owned WA5. Never got the '5' but it still made more sense to me for potential dollars spent.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> @ bonesnv
> 
> I think you got the _WooAudio WA22_ versus the _WA 6 Special Edition_ quite right. I'm a former owner of the latter and have sat with the former a couple of times. A couple of years ago and maybe one more, I sought to go from the _Special Edition_ up to the WA22. Tried to scoop up a Black one pre-owned but lucky for me I could neither buy one or pry one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I upgraded to WA5LE but unfortunately/fortunately that my work is so busy I have to resell the WA5LE.  Will try to get the WA5 probably later next year, currently I'm still too busy to listen to anything lately.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

yes the 22 is a much better amp but really comes into it's own with balanced operations and tube rolling. I do like the 6se however. It is a great alrounder, and with stocktubes that is also easy to get the best tubes into it cheaply.


----------



## wongtonypr

Have anyone tried to use the Psvane WE300b with the wa5?
 I am planning to buy one.


----------



## TontNZ

wongtonypr said:


> Have anyone tried to use the Psvane WE300b with the wa5?
> I am planning to buy one.


 
 Would you mind me asking how much the matched pair will cost?  I ask as some of the sellers seem to be asking top dollar.
  
 Cheers - Peter


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> Umm, I don't and have never owned a WA6, haven't even heard one, so no clue on how the two compare sound wise.
> 
> Assumed you were referring to amps I actually had.


 
 Sorry, I misread your signature, and thought you owned the WA6 and the 6SE as well as the WA22.
 But I still agree with what you said about the 6SE having a SS sound…even compared to the WA6.


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> Sorry, I misread your signature, and thought you owned the WA6 and the 6SE as well as the WA22.
> But I still agree with what you said about the 6SE having a SS sound…even compared to the WA6.


 
  
 No worries and my bad if my response came off a little blunt, it was late.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> No worries and my bad if my response came off a little blunt, it was late.


 
 No, not at all.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I upgraded to WA5LE but unfortunately/fortunately that my work is so busy I have to resell the WA5LE.  Will try to get the WA5 probably later next year, currently I'm still too busy to listen to anything lately.


 
 I enjoy watching your journey with work/travel, audio & photography. Can' wait for you to bring the WA5 home!


----------



## bonesnv

kkcc said:


> On the single ended vs balanced input, I had recently checked with Jack and he mentioned that for the "latest WA22, they have included a RCA to XLR phase splitter circuit built into the amp and we should get similar performance from RCA and XLR inputs. However, the XLR will sound cleaner and more open since it does not pass through the phase splitter circuit."
> 
> Do we know if most WA22 has this phase splitter, or this is a more recent change?


 
  
 I will test RCA vs Balanced on mine tonight and let you know if I can tell a notable difference or not, as mine should be one of the "latest" WA22's.


----------



## gmm1

Does anyone know how I could get an RK-60 to 5U4 adapter?


----------



## Stereolab42

Regarding the WA22... there are $650 of upgraded tubes recommended on Woo's site. Are all these excellent choices, or is it a better idea just to go stock and buy different tubes? (I listen to Rock/EDM and prefer a slightly V-shaped sound, if that helps.) I would also ask the same question for the WA6-SE, since I have not yet made a decision between the two.
  
 (I'm not trying to rehash 1000s of pages of tube rolling discussion, just want to get a feel if I would be making an expensive mistake going with Woo's upgrades...)


----------



## GalaxyGuy

stereolab42 said:


> Regarding the WA22... there are $650 of upgraded tubes recommended on Woo's site. Are all these excellent choices, or is it a better idea just to go stock and buy different tubes? (I listen to Rock/EDM and prefer a slightly V-shaped sound, if that helps.) I would also ask the same question for the WA6-SE, since I have not yet made a decision between the two.
> 
> (I'm not trying to rehash 1000s of pages of tube rolling discussion, just want to get a feel if I would be making an expensive mistake going with Woo's upgrades...)


 
 I think upgraded tubes are important for a WA22 (I can't comment on the WA6SE), but I would personally steer away from the Sophia rectifier and go with something else.  I have found that both the EML 5U4G and several NOS versions (in particular Mullard GZ34 and WE422a) are better options than the Sophia Electric rectifier that Jack offers.  I know opinions will vary, but I think that both the drivers and power tubes that he offers are quite decent.  In the end, I personally ended up with different tubes than anything that Jack offers as upgrades, but I think that aside from the rectifier the upgraded tubes are definitely worth the money for the WA22.  I know that DG (among others) have strong opinions about this, but I just don't find that the Sophia is all that good.  Better than stock? Yes.  But you can do better for less, IMHO.  Or, in my case, for more...


----------



## punit

stereolab42 said:


> Regarding the WA22... there are $650 of upgraded tubes recommended on Woo's site. Are all these excellent choices, or is it a better idea just to go stock and buy different tubes? (I listen to Rock/EDM and prefer a slightly V-shaped sound, if that helps.) I would also ask the same question for the WA6-SE, since I have not yet made a decision between the two.
> 
> (I'm not trying to rehash 1000s of pages of tube rolling discussion, just want to get a feel if I would be making an expensive mistake going with Woo's upgrades...)


 

 If you are prepared to do some hard work i.e. read through various relevant tube related threads to gain knowledge about various tubes & their characteristics , patiently stalk ebay & contact various tube sellers to get tubes that you want at reasonable prices, then you will get much better tubes , some cheaper , some more expensive but better sounding as well.
  
 If you want to take the easy way  just buy the Woo tube upgrades, you will get reasonably good sound.
  
 So depends on whether you are the tinkering kind of guy who lives for the thrill of the chase of tracking down the next tube & enjoy comparing the sound of various tubes or whether you are a set it & forget it kind of guy who cannot be bothered with all that.


----------



## Stereolab42

punit said:


> If you are prepared to do some hard work i.e. read through various relevant tube related threads to gain knowledge about various tubes & their characteristics , patiently stalk ebay & contact various tube sellers to get tubes that you want at reasonable prices, then you will get much better tubes , some cheaper , some more expensive but better sounding as well.
> 
> If you want to take the easy way  just buy the Woo tube upgrades, you will get reasonably good sound.
> 
> So depends on whether you are the tinkering kind of guy who lives for the thrill of the chase of tracking down the next tube & enjoy comparing the sound of various tubes or whether you are a set it & forget it kind of guy who cannot be bothered with all that.


 
  
 I guess I would be in-between the two extremes. I would like to build up a tube collection, and if the Woo upgrades serve as a good start then I'm fine with that.


----------



## daverich4

bonesnv said:


> I will test RCA vs Balanced on mine tonight and let you know if I can tell a notable difference or not, as mine should be one of the "latest" WA22's.




You should be able to tell pretty easily. My WA22 is about 3 years old and the balanced inputs play MUCH louder than the RCA inputs.


----------



## punit

stereolab42 said:


> I guess I would be in-between the two extremes. I would like to build up a tube collection, and if the Woo upgrades serve as a good start then I'm fine with that.


 
  
 As a starter Tube upgrade kit for the WA22 get :
  
*Rectifier :*
 RCA 5U4G ($30 - $50) or Mullard GZ32 ($50-$80) or USAF 596 - adapter required (around $ 150 )
  
*Power :*
 TS 7236 is available cheaper at other places (PM me if you need more info). You can also get  GEC 6080 /Mullard 6080 / Chatham or Bendix 6080 WB Graphite Plates ($ 100 - 150 pair)
  
*Driver:*
 Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT  or Brimar CV1988 or RCA Red Base 5692 or Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT  or Tung Sol  6F8G or National Union 6F8G or Sylvania 6F8G ($ 150 - 200 pair). Adapter required for 6F8G.
  
 the above upgrades should cost you around $ 300- 450 & will give SQ equal (if not better) to the upgrades offered by Woo @ 650 IMO.
  
  
*Only Caveat is patience & little effort is required to obtain the above at reasonable prices.*
  
 There are a whole lot more upgrades available (please check my profile for the one's I have) but I have just listed those which will give you great sound within a specified budget.


----------



## kkcc

daverich4 said:


> You should be able to tell pretty easily. My WA22 is about 3 years old and the balanced inputs play MUCH louder than the RCA inputs.




Then indeed the phase splitter allows newer wa22 to utilize the full balanced circuit from the RCA inputs as they output similar (if not exaxtly the same) volume level. bonesnv would be interested in your findings.

Wonder when was the change made....


----------



## kkcc

stereolab42 said:


> I guess I would be in-between the two extremes. I would like to build up a tube collection, and if the Woo upgrades serve as a good start then I'm fine with that.




Personally I feel the Woo recommended tubes are safe choices that are all rounded, not the most tubey nor SS sound, not too bassy nor treble oriented, and quite balanced as a set. Definitely a lot better than stock. Though we all have our preferences and my own choice would be Chatham 2399 + sylvania VT231 + USAF596 (with adapter).

Buying from Woo is definitely more expensive than deals we can find around different sites, but Woo do give you peace of mind... e.g. I got matched pair tubes from eBay seller with great feedback but end up finding 2db imbalance on left and right channel... also gotten tubes from local forum that is badly microphonic... I have also bought metal based tube from a site who shipped me tubes with badly pitted base... so in a sense you pay more to woo for real matched silence NOS tubes for a premium.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> As a starter Tube upgrade kit for the WA22 get :
> 
> *Rectifier :*
> RCA 5U4G ($30 - $50) or *Mullard GZ32* ($50-$80) or USAF 596 - adapter required (around $ 150 )
> ...


 
  
 Totally agreed, my recommendations in red.


----------



## bonesnv

Everything as said above is great advice to take. They haven't steered me wrong yet.  Granted, I am now addicted to tubes like I am tattoos thanks to them but that's neither here nor there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With that said, I tried the RCA vs XLR last night, difference was pretty noticeable.  Same DAC, same songs (Muse - Supremacy, Mediterranean Nights and Zeppelin - Babe I'm Gonna Leave You), same headphones and relatively equal quality interconnects.  With the RCA I had to turn the volume knob up a few steps to get it to sound as loud, but it didn't sound as good even with it turned up louder.  It was almost like the WA22 lost something, somewhat like listening to the 6SE again but with just a tad more openness due to the tubes.  Now the DAC could have attributed to some of this change, so have to take that into account a bit.
  
 However, I think if you are going the WA22 route, balanced should be your choice.  If you aren't going balanced, I think there are other more appropriate options.
  
 P.S.  Zeppelins original recordings are way better than Jimmy Page's remasters.  Don't know if it is nostalgia or what, but his remasters switch the channels around and seem to completely move around the sound stage, don't like it, others may love it, personal opinion.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

galaxyguy said:


> I think upgraded tubes are important for a WA22 (I can't comment on the WA6SE), but I would personally steer away from the Sophia rectifier and go with something else.  I have found that both the EML 5U4G and several NOS versions (in particular Mullard GZ34 and WE422a) are better options than the Sophia Electric rectifier that Jack offers.  I know opinions will vary, but I think that both the drivers and power tubes that he offers are quite decent.  In the end, I personally ended up with different tubes than anything that Jack offers as upgrades, but I think that aside from the rectifier the upgraded tubes are definitely worth the money for the WA22.  I know that DG (among others) have strong opinions about this, but I just don't find that the Sophia is all that good.  Better than stock? Yes.  But you can do better for less, IMHO.  Or, in my case, for more...




i agree, but i also find EML to be "not as good". for the price. shipped its over 260$ probably close to 300. its a great tube and all but for that much money one should definitely skip over it and get a metall mullard, 422a, u52.... something nice like that


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Totally agreed, my recommendations in red.




+2


----------



## lojay

jc9394 said:


> Totally agreed, my recommendations in red.


 
  
 How does the Brimar CV1988 compare with say the Tungsol BGRP? 
  
 DG, what do you use as drivers on your WA5?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tung sol bgrp, eml 300b, and cv593


----------



## bonesnv

Tuesday rant, I hate people that snipe auctions with 1-2 seconds left on eBay, when they had never bid at all throughout the entire process.
  
 /rant off


----------



## punit

Is this rant about the WE421A pair which went for $ 502 ?


----------



## 62ohm

bonesnv said:


> Tuesday rant, I hate people that snipe auctions with 1-2 seconds left on eBay, when they had never bid at all throughout the entire process.
> 
> /rant off


 
  
 I lost an auction for a pair of Telefunken 6DJ8 before to someone who snipes with about a couple of seconds left on eBay. Totally ruined my day..


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Is this rant about the WE421A pair which went for $ 502 ?


 
  
  
 Mix of both, I did want that 421A pair simply due to how they tested and being new in box, as the other 421's have pretty low test ratings on them or they aren't provided at all, but there was some Ken Rad's VT231's I was bidding on that I was interested in as well.  Only others were buy it now options, which I figured I would just bid and see how things went, lost on both.  Oh well, such is life.
  
 EDIT:  Now I can go do actual work instead of watching eBay, lol.


----------



## punit

lojay said:


> How does the Brimar CV1988 compare with say the Tungsol BGRP?


 
 The Brimar is very sweet sounding, great Mids, good tone. Very nice for Vocals especially female vocals & I would assume also Jazz.
  
 TS BGRP is king of dynamics (only bettered by Mullard CV 181). Punchy, great extension at both ends. good for rock & EDM.


----------



## lojay

Not sure how much I trust "NOS" tubes on eBay. I'm looking to get a second pair of BGRPs since my current pair was bought used and is very microphonic and has a lot of treble roll-off.


----------



## bonesnv

lojay said:


> Not sure how much I trust "NOS" tubes on eBay. I'm looking to get a second pair of BGRPs since my current pair was bought used and is very microphonic and has a lot of treble roll-off.


 
  
 I've had good luck but I always try and talk to the person before I look into bidding and also the country they are shipping from.  I have been fortunate in that I have found most of mine in the States so relatively easy transactions and no issues so far.


----------



## kazsud

punit said:


> Is this rant about the WE421A pair which went for $ 502 ?


 

 Yikes
  
 They are next on my list, maybe not....


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> The Brimar is very sweet sounding, great Mids, good tone. Very nice for Vocals especially female vocals & I would assume also Jazz.
> 
> TS BGRP is king of dynamics (only bettered by Mullard CV 181). Punchy, great extension at both ends. good for rock & EDM.


 
  
  


lojay said:


> How does the Brimar CV1988 compare with say the Tungsol BGRP?
> 
> DG, what do you use as drivers on your WA5?


 
  
  
 What punit said.  I actually like the Brimar more than BGRP with Jazz especially with female vocals.  Diana, Ella, Norah...
  


lojay said:


> Not sure how much I trust "NOS" tubes on eBay. I'm looking to get a second pair of BGRPs since my current pair was bought used and is very microphonic and has a lot of treble roll-off.


 
  
 You have to be careful who you deal with, for pricy tubes I will ask the seller if it possible to return if it have any noise or loose base.


----------



## lojay

Thanks guys! I am buying a Brimar soon. The comparison is very useful. Seems that the Brimar will be a nice complement to the Tungsols.
  
  
 I like my Tungsols. They are very well balanced, dynamic, have good bass extension (better than Kenrads) and are smooth. But a bit too smooth and I feel that they lack high end sparkle and soundstage. I think my pair is past its prime so that's why I'm looking for a second one.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> The Brimar is very sweet sounding, great Mids, good tone. Very nice for Vocals especially female vocals & I would assume also Jazz.
> 
> TS BGRP is king of dynamics (only bettered by Mullard CV 181). Punchy, great extension at both ends. good for rock & EDM.


 
  
  
 So, how about the differences between the TS 6F8G BG without the round plates vs the ones with the round mica plates, aside from around $150+ cost difference?


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> Tuesday rant, I hate people that snipe auctions with 1-2 seconds left on eBay, when they had never bid at all throughout the entire process.
> 
> /rant off


 
 When I'm sure that I want a tube on eBay, I just put in a high "MAX" bid.


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> When I'm sure that I want a tube on eBay, I just put in a high "MAX" bid.


 
  
 I set it with 6 seconds remaining, but with 2 seconds to go someone went 2 dollars higher that what I had set my max to, so before I could even click a button it was done.  Such is eBay.
  
 The Ken Rad I actually completely spaced and didn't set my Max so that was totally my fault.  Someone also set their max to a really high level, above what some of the buy it now options are so yeah, wasn't worth it, somewhat glad I lost it and will just look elsewhere.
  
 EDIT:  Not like I am in a rush, just like having fun with different tubes.  NIB/NOS 421's were kind of hard to pass up but will find more I'm sure some day.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> I set it with 6 seconds remaining, but with 2 seconds to go someone went 2 dollars higher that what I had set my max to, so before I could even click a button it was done.  Such is eBay.
> 
> The Ken Rad I actually completely spaced and didn't set my Max so that was totally my fault.  Someone also set their max to a really high level, above what some of the buy it now options are so yeah, wasn't worth it, somewhat glad I lost it and will just look elsewhere.
> 
> EDIT:  Not like I am in a rush, just like having fun with different tubes.  NIB/NOS 421's were kind of hard to pass up but will find more I'm sure some day.


 
 I usually put in a max bid with an odd amount, like $53.75, just incase this does happen by a few dollars... even happened to me a few times, but I was also glad that I didn't win some of them. I also believe (not sure) that there is a software that will bid automatically beyond the highest bid in the last few seconds. Good luck finding the tubes, I'm sure they will come up again.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

What style of CV1988 are you using, the metal based ones?


----------



## Silent One

EML 5U4G Rectifier : :   : :
  
 In my view, this rectifier is a fine piece of glass. But I fall in with many - the rec simply does _not_ bring good value. Different manufacturers face different costs and we're footing the bill for them to bring the glass to the table at a profit.


----------



## jc9394

nic rhodes said:


> What style of CV1988 are you using, the metal based ones?


 
  
 My pair are brown based.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> EML 5U4G Rectifier : :   : :
> 
> In my view, this rectifier is a fine piece of glass. But I fall in with many - the rec simply does _not_ bring good value. Different manufacturers face different costs and we're footing the bill for them to bring the glass to the table at a profit.


 
  
 Agreed on the value but I do have a soft spot for the EML glows in the dark...


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Agreed on the value but I do have a soft spot for the EML glows in the dark...


 
 And your eye for photography doesn't help avoid that soft spot either.


----------



## Staxaphone

I've been using a Woo GES for the past year. I have tried a variety of 6S4 power tube sets of various labels. They all look and sound the same to me, which is OK as I really like the sound. But I am wondering, has anyone found a particular 6S4 tube type for the GES that provides a subjectively better SQ with 009's?


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> And your eye for photography doesn't help avoid that soft spot either.


 
  
  
 That is true, I need to make my toys worth the money I spent...


----------



## kazsud

Ong there is a pair of gec 6as7g on eBay starting bid at $838.00


----------



## jc9394

kazsud said:


> Ong there is a pair of gec 6as7g on eBay starting bid at $838.00


 
  
 Damn, I should have not sold my NOS pair.


----------



## bonesnv

Well, put the 6SE up for sale.  The 6SE is excellent but is way to costly and fragile (NOS tubes) to keep at work and WA22 is blowing me away at home, so may as well try to recoup some costs.
  
 Figured I would leave a message here in case anyone was looking.  If this type of post isn't allowed in these forums, someone let me know and I will edit it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jc9394 said:


> Agreed on the value but I do have a soft spot for the EML glows in the dark...


 
  
 too bad EML 300B have no glow...


----------



## jc9394

dubstep girl said:


> too bad EML 300B have no glow...




I can still make it glows with my camera at night...


----------



## fhuang

wongtonypr said:


> Have anyone tried to use the Psvane WE300b with the wa5?
> I am planning to buy one.


 
  
  
 i actually prefer this to kr audio 300b baloon.  the kr isn't as smooth as the psvane.


----------



## wongtonypr

Have you also tried the Psvane WE274B? 
How do it compare with the kr audio's or the eml's?
Thanks


----------



## bonesnv

Anyone with the Woo 6F8G adapters know of a way to make them seal just a little tighter on the top plug?  I have one adapter that just seems to sit on top, where as the other actually feels on there and tight.  I tried taking some tweezers and bending the connector inside a bit but didn't seem to do much.
  
 Honestly, the Woo 596 adapter is kind of the same way, the adapter cable is almost just a bit to short so they just rest on the top of the tube instead of feeling secure.  Always worry about them kind of wobbling off, not that the amp is sitting on an earthquake testing table or anything.
  
 Am I being paranoid about something that is not an issue really?  They just don't seem as high of quality as the amps themselves.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> Anyone with the Woo 6F8G adapters know of a way to make them seal just a little tighter on the top plug?  I have one adapter that just seems to sit on top, where as the other actually feels on there and tight.  I tried taking some tweezers and bending the connector inside a bit but didn't seem to do much.
> 
> Honestly, the Woo 596 adapter is kind of the same way, the adapter cable is almost just a bit to short so they just rest on the top of the tube instead of feeling secure.  Always worry about them kind of wobbling off, not that the amp is sitting on an earthquake testing table or anything.
> 
> Am I being paranoid about something that is not an issue really?  They just don't seem as high of quality as the amps themselves.


 
 I have both, Woo/Glenn 596 adapters…and the Glenn adapter is much better than Woo's adapter for the 596... the wires are longer, and the connectors for the top of the tube fit fully over the glass rods. I don't even use the Woo adapter, I have incase something happens to my Glenn adapter as a back-up.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bonesnv said:


> Anyone with the Woo 6F8G adapters know of a way to make them seal just a little tighter on the top plug?  I have one adapter that just seems to sit on top, where as the other actually feels on there and tight.  I tried taking some tweezers and bending the connector inside a bit but didn't seem to do much.
> 
> Honestly, the Woo 596 adapter is kind of the same way, the adapter cable is almost just a bit to short so they just rest on the top of the tube instead of feeling secure.  Always worry about them kind of wobbling off, not that the amp is sitting on an earthquake testing table or anything.
> 
> Am I being paranoid about something that is not an issue really?  They just don't seem as high of quality as the amps themselves.


 
  
 the Woo adapters are pretty bad, the glenn adapters are way better built, though the issue you speak of might be partly due to the tubes, the same thing happens to one of them on mine... not sure though, and not really an issue to me.


----------



## bonesnv

Thanks both for the feedback, seems I might need to send another PM.  I would definitely blame the adapter unfortunately, as it is loose on all of the 6F8G tubes I have, but the other is a tighter fit on same tubes.  
  
 Also don't like that the cable is on the same side for both adapters, so the left tube has the cable leaning against the rectifier unless I twist it a bit around, but that's a personal preference thing.


----------



## kkcc

Not sure about the 6FG8 adaptors, but my woo 596 adapters fit tightly for both wires and I wonder how much better can an adapter fit...
 My only complaint is aesthetics as the white base really doesn't match my black wa22 too well


----------



## Silent One

I'm into aesthetics, too, I know what you're sayin'! Also, my adapter for _The Mighty 596_ - custom made by 2359glenn - were tight and fit right!


----------



## bonesnv

kkcc said:


> Not sure about the 6FG8 adaptors, but my woo 596 adapters fit tightly for both wires and I wonder how much better can an adapter fit...
> My only complaint is aesthetics as the white base really doesn't match my black wa22 too well


 
  
 Perhaps the quality control on the adapters is a bit less than that of the amps.


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv said:


> Perhaps the quality control on the adapters is a bit less than that of the amps.


I'm using three Woo adapters in my Woo WA6, and even though the cables for the 596 > 5AR4 adapter are a bit short for the Mighty, they seem to work fine. I like the suggestion of getting a Glenn 596 adapter and using the Woo for a backup.


----------



## GalaxyGuy

joseph69 said:


> I have both, Woo/Glenn 596 adapters…and the Glenn adapter is much better than Woo's adapter for the 596... the wires are longer, and the connectors for the top of the tube fit fully over the glass rods. I don't even use the Woo adapter, I have incase something happens to my Glenn adapter as a back-up.


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> the Woo adapters are pretty bad, the glenn adapters are way better built, though the issue you speak of might be partly due to the tubes, the same thing happens to one of them on mine... not sure though, and not really an issue to me.


 
  
  


bonesnv said:


> Anyone with the Woo 6F8G adapters know of a way to make them seal just a little tighter on the top plug?  I have one adapter that just seems to sit on top, where as the other actually feels on there and tight.  I tried taking some tweezers and bending the connector inside a bit but didn't seem to do much.
> 
> Honestly, the Woo 596 adapter is kind of the same way, the adapter cable is almost just a bit to short so they just rest on the top of the tube instead of feeling secure.  Always worry about them kind of wobbling off, not that the amp is sitting on an earthquake testing table or anything.
> 
> Am I being paranoid about something that is not an issue really?  They just don't seem as high of quality as the amps themselves.


 
 I will take an alternative view.  I bought a pair of 6F8G adapters from Glenn that never worked, so it was money flushed down the toilet for me.  My Woo adapters work just fine...


----------



## GalaxyGuy

P.S. I'm not trying to badmouth Glenn in any way.  I never asked him to correct the problem or reported the issue to him in any way.  I imagine he would have tried to make it right.  Instead I just bought another pair from Woo, which worked straight away.


----------



## Badas

Wow. Massive thread.
  
 I want to join the Woo Party.
  
 I want a amp to run the Audeze LCD3.
  
 Woo has too many options. I had thought of the Fireflies but decided they look a little not really serious.
  
 Any recommendations?


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> Wow. Massive thread.
> 
> I want to join the Woo Party.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My LCD3's sound great through the WA22, with the right combination of tubes you can put plenty of power to them to make them sing.  I listen to mine nightly and haven't listened to another set of cans since I got them.  I am sure the WA5/LE would also push them without an issue.  The 6SE might be enough but I never tried mine through the 6SE when I had it hooked up.


----------



## Badas

I thought


bonesnv said:


> My LCD3's sound great through the WA22, with the right combination of tubes you can put plenty of power to them to make them sing.  I listen to mine nightly and haven't listened to another set of cans since I got them.  I am sure the WA5/LE would also push them without an issue.  The 6SE might be enough but I never tried mine through the 6SE when I had it hooked up.


 

 Ha,
  
 I thought that would be the answer. WA22.
  
 Probably a little to rich for me right now. That is my pick of the range. I wish I had the $$
  
 I"m kinda thinking WA6, WA6-SE or WA2.
  
 What is the difference between WA3 and WA6? I can't work it out from their site.


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> I thought
> 
> Ha,
> 
> ...


 
  
 I will let someone else explain the details of the difference between the two, I would screw it up.  I know my limits of my knowledge, lol.


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> I will let someone else explain the details of the difference between the two, I would screw it up.  I know my limits of my knowledge, lol.


 





  
 I'm not considering the WA3. I'm just curious.
  
 Kinda thinking WA2.


----------



## OldSkool

badas said:


> I'm not considering the WA3. I'm just curious.
> 
> Kinda thinking WA2.


 

 To my ears, the WA2 sounds outstanding thru the LCD2.3 (fazor). However, the key seems to be using the increasingly-elusive TS5998 as power tubes.
  
 With that said, I view the HD800 as Ginger and the LCD2 as Mary Ann. I'm Gilligan and I want them both.


----------



## Badas

oldskool said:


> To my ears, the WA2 sounds outstanding thru the LCD2.3 (fazor). However, the key seems to be using the increasingly-elusive TS5998 as power tubes.
> 
> With that said, I view the HD800 as Ginger and the LCD2 as Mary Ann. I'm Gilligan and I want them both.


 
  
 Yeah, I run two HP's as well. LCD3 (pre-fazor) and HD700's.
  
 I'm going to keep both. I should have got the HD800's however the HD700's are super comfortable. I can wear them all day.
  
 Once I have a Woo I will run two different amps as well. I have the Oppo HA-1 at the moment. I plan to feed the signal from it to a Woo. So I can pick and choose amps as well.


----------



## Stereolab42

Well, I now have both a WA22 and WA6-SE on order, with all the tube upgrades. Intending to use them both, in different locations. End-game, here I come... maybe.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Well, I now have both a WA22 and WA6-SE on order, with all the tube upgrades. Intending to use them both, in different locations. End-game, here I come... maybe.


 
 Never heard the WA5 - but those that have tell me it is the end game Woo offering and a step up from everything else in the WA lineup (excepting the megabuck monoblocks and electrostatics).


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Never heard the WA5 - but those that have tell me it is the end game Woo offering and a step up from everything else in the WA lineup (excepting the megabuck monoblocks and electrostatics).


 
  
 I considered the WA5 but couldn't justify the power consumption... I'm not a treehugger by any means but 140 watts continuous to power a pair of headphones... I guess I will always be one step below endgame then.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> I considered the WA5 but couldn't justify the power consumption... I'm not a treehugger by any means but 140 watts continuous to power a pair of headphones... I guess I will always be one step below endgame then.


 
 There's no such thing as too much power unless your skull is vaporised ....


----------



## Silent One

Though, I consider myself environmentally friendly, my _vintage lovely_ politely asks that I send her 950w just to turn-on. And THEN she'll express some beautiful notes through the HE-6.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Got to hear the HiFiMan HE-560 on our WA5-LE.  That's the amp for this headphone!


----------



## kkcc

hifiguy528 said:


> Got to hear the HiFiMan HE-560 on our WA5-LE.  That's the amp for this headphone!




Yes. HE560 sounded a bit too lean and thin for my taste with many SS amps and does get some meat back with the wa22/wa5. Probably wa2 with 5998/2399 tubes could work too.


----------



## Justin_Time

badas said:


> Wow. Massive thread.
> 
> I want to join the Woo Party.
> 
> ...




If you want to take a long- term approach, the Woo WA5, or if if you are not considering the HE6, the Woo WA5-LE may be a better investment for a better sound.

As you start getting different headphones, which I did a dozen time, you'll appreciate the fact that the WA5 will sound wonderful with most if not all of them.

Just a thought.


----------



## lojay

justin_time said:


> If you want to take a long- term approach, the Woo WA5, or if if you are not considering the HE6, the Woo WA5-LE may be a better investment for a better sound.
> 
> As you start getting different headphones, which I did a dozen time, you'll appreciate the fact that the WA5 will sound wonderful with most if not all of them.
> 
> Just a thought.


 
 How does the WA5 compare with other top end amps, such as GSX Mk II and Eddie Current amps? I've invested so much into WA5 tubes that I am a bit unwilling to face the possibility that those amp would beat the WA5 even in stock form!


----------



## Justin_Time

lojay said:


> How does the WA5 compare with other top end amps, such as GSX Mk II and Eddie Current amps? I've invested so much into WA5 tubes that I am a bit unwilling to face the possibility that those amp would beat the WA5 even in stock form!



 


 I am very familar with only three other amps that are in the same league as the Woo WA5: the EAR HP-4, the Bakoon HPA-21 and the HeadAmp GS-X Mark 2. I own the ED Super 7, which is an entry level ED amp, not the top of the line.

These four amps belong to the small list of elite amps with versatility to work well with most headphones--I have used them with great results with the Audeze LCD2/3, Fostex TH-900, Grado PS10000/GS1000, HiFiMAN HE-500/6/560, Sennheiser HD800, Ultrasone 8/10.

I have owned these four amps for over two years now and even if you put a gun to my head, I cannot tell you which one I like best. They are all great in their own way and they are all flawed.

My only recommendation: buy one and enjoy!


----------



## lojay

justin_time said:


> lojay said:
> 
> 
> > How does the WA5 compare with other top end amps, such as GSX Mk II and Eddie Current amps? I've invested so much into WA5 tubes that I am a bit unwilling to face the possibility that those amp would beat the WA5 even in stock form!
> ...




Thanks! I'll be quite happy if the WA5 can compete with these other amps. Before you've posted I have read your comparison of these amps in driving the HE-6, which is insightful. What would you say might be the WA5's flaws or areas needing improvement? Am I right to say, comparing the WA5 and GSX, the WA5 has more impact but less soundstage, and less smoth transients (ie translating into less detail)? Which has a more lush or smooth midrange? What do you mean by an impressive "focus" with the WA5? Also what tubes are you using?

Sorry for the deluge of questions but I haven't found a person on this forum who is still active and who has lived with the WA5 long enough with other amps to give impressions. Of course I do appreciate that we have different ears, different tubes and cables, but one's opinion is a nice starting point to get to the next stop in the journey


----------



## Justin_Time

lojay said:


> Thanks! I'll be quite happy if the WA5 can compete with these other amps. Before you've posted I have read your comparison of these amps in driving the HE-6, which is insightful. What would you say might be the WA5's flaws or areas needing improvement? Am I right to say, comparing the WA5 and GSX, the WA5 has more impact but less soundstage, and less smoth transients (ie translating into less detail)? Which has a more lush or smooth midrange? What do you mean by an impressive "focus" with the WA5? Also what tubes are you using?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the deluge of questions but I haven't found a person on this forum who is still active and who has lived with the WA5 long enough with other amps to give impressions. Of course I do appreciate that we have different ears, different tubes and cables, but one's opinion is a nice starting point to get to the next stop in the journey



 


I had planned on comparing these amps paired with the HE-6. Here is a rough draft:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

The GS-X Mark2 produced a smooth and well-articulated sound with silky transients and plenty of inner details with nary a trace of sibilance, hardness or glare. The feathery light and silky smooth transients of the GS-X Mk2 must be heard to be believed. The focus and imaging is very natural (neither forward nor recessed) and the soundstage was the largest I ever heard from the HD800 and HE-6 endowing the sound with the presence, air and layers of live music. The bass was tight and solid with tremendous impact. The greatest strength of the GS-X Mk2 is its ability to perform well with all kinds of headphones and all kinds of music.

With the Bakoon HA-21, the HE-6 sounded remarkably free as well of the hardness and glare often heard with other amps. There was plenty of bass with the HE-6 for Jazz and classical music, but I wished for a tad more impact here with rock music—this was a real surprise for a solid-state design; perhaps a bigger power supply is needed here but that may be quibbling. Where the Bakoon truly excelled was in the warm but also vividly detailed midrange. This is an uncanny sound quality that I have not heard from any other amps. If you like to hear warm vocals with vivid and rich details and smooth transients (guitars, violins…), this amp is ideal for you. The excellent way the Bakoon rendered female voices in particular is entrancing. 

The Woo WA5 delivered a smooth midrange with outstanding presence thanks to a forward imaging and very tight focus. This sound was remarkably free of the hardness or glare usually associated with the HE-6. The bass, at once tight and weighty, a rare combination, was delivered with an authority that will rock your socks off. This was truly a match made in heaven for rock. Jazz- and Chamber-Music lovers will have much to like about the HE-6/Woo WA5 pairing as well. (upgraded parts + $1500 for Upgraded Royal Princess 300B tube and Princess 274B rectifier Tubes) 

With the EAR HP-4, the HE-6 also produced a musical sound free of hardness and glare. The focus of the HE-6, typically a little fuzzy, became pin-point sharp here; the center image was also pushed a little forward to give a greater presence to vocals, similar to the beautiful results with the Woo WA5. In general, there was also increased air around the instruments and enlarged soundstage to improve the 3-D illusion. Surprisingly for tube design, while the bass was well controlled (read tight), very dynamic and perfect for classical music, it was not ideal for rock where a bid less control and perhaps more weight (mid-bass bloom) is desirable. Overall, the sound was detailed and dynamic, but also so open and relaxed that I frequently forgot to focus on it and was simply enjoyed the music. That’s the ultimate compliment I can give for an audio gear.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That's about as far as I got.

Cheers!


----------



## wongtonypr

Have anyone tried both the EML tubes and Psvane tubes on WA5?
 I've just ordered a pair of  Psvane we300b, we274b and cv181 mark2 from a local dealer, and suddenly saw a pair of EML 300b mesh and 274B mesh for sale in the second market..
 Are the EML's really 'better' or just personal preference on sound?


----------



## joseph69

wongtonypr said:


> Have anyone tried both the EML tubes and Psvane tubes on WA5?
> I've just ordered a pair of  Psvane we300b, we274b and cv181 mark2 from a local dealer, and suddenly saw a pair of EML 300b mesh and 274B mesh for sale in the second market..
> Are the EML's really 'better' or just personal preference on sound?


 
 I don't own the WA5…but I do own the WA6/WA6SE, and *IME* when it comes to tubes,  I found that I had to try various different tubes/tube combos/brands to find the sound* I *was looking for very costly but... So I personally believe it comes down to preference, but wouldn't exclude build quality from being "better". Also all tubes have their strong/weak points, so it depends on what* your* looking for. If it sounds good to *you*, then its good!
 A great example is Woo Audios site saying that the 6GL7/6EM7 is the best upgrade tube for my two amps…and I hated them, and couldn't for the life of me understand how others like them, but some do, so...


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> ... A great example is Woo Audios site saying that the 6GL7/6EM7 is the best upgrade tube for my two amps…and I hated them, and couldn't for the life of me understand how others like them, but some do, so...


 
  
 I really don't understand the hype used in the tube descriptions on the Woo website. I bought the 6EM7 and 7N7 driver upgrades based on the wonderful descriptions - but neither came close to delivering what the 6SN7 driver upgrade did for me. Wasted money that would have been better spent on exploring more 6SN7 options.


----------



## Silent One

It was the 6SN7 options that took my _6_ _Special Edition_ to the next level; held my interest.


----------



## musicman59

wongtonypr said:


> Have anyone tried both the EML tubes and Psvane tubes on WA5?
> I've just ordered a pair of  Psvane we300b, we274b and cv181 mark2 from a local dealer, and suddenly saw a pair of EML 300b mesh and 274B mesh for sale in the second market..
> Are the EML's really 'better' or just personal preference on sound?


 
 I have the 300B Mesh in my WA5-LE and I used to have the 5U4G Mesh also.
 I switch the 5U4G for the USF 596 because the 596 was more dynamic and faster. I have only compared the 300B Mesh to the EAT that I also own and I prefer the EML. It sound is more organic and the base goes deeper.
  
 I have been very interested in the Psvane WE300B and CV181 MkII but I have not been able to find any reviews so if you buy them please let me know what do you think.
  
 I have a pair of Psvane 12AX7 in my McIntosh Preamp and really like them. They are my second favorite after the Mullard CV4004 box plates at a much cheaper price.


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> I don't own the WA5…but I do own the WA6/WA6SE, and *IME* when it comes to tubes,  I found that I had to try various different tubes/tube combos/brands to find the sound* I *was looking for very costly but... So I personally believe it comes down to preference, but wouldn't exclude build quality from being "better". Also all tubes have their strong/weak points, so it depends on what* your* looking for. If it sounds good to *you*, then its good!
> A great example is Woo Audios site saying that the 6GL7/6EM7 is the best upgrade tube for my two amps…and I hated them, and couldn't for the life of me understand how others like them, but some do, so...


 
  
 The 6EM7's were the only tubes I could use in my 6SE to tame the T1's highs that I was getting with other tubes, so they have their uses.
  
 Everything to do with tube amps is personal preference.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> I really don't understand the hype used in the tube descriptions on the Woo website. I bought the 6EM7 and 7N7 driver upgrades based on the wonderful descriptions - but neither came close to delivering what the 6SN7 driver upgrade did for me. Wasted money that would have been better spent on exploring more 6SN7 options.


TonyN, with all do respect sir I completely understand your disappointment with your initial power/driver tube purchases. I offer you the possibility that Jack Wu picked those tubes as premium upgrades because they matched the engineering parameters that he feels, as a builder, would best match the technical specs for his hand built headphone amplifiers. I know that sentence was way too long, but it was just a speculative postulation on my part.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> I really don't understand the hype used in the tube descriptions on the Woo website. I bought the 6EM7 and 7N7 driver upgrades based on the wonderful descriptions - but neither came close to delivering what the 6SN7 driver upgrade did for me. Wasted money that would have been better spent on exploring more 6SN7 options.


 
 Me either, I felt they drowned out all of the detail.
  


silent one said:


> It was the 6SN7 options that took my _6_ _Special Edition_ to the next level; held my interest.


 
 I forget if it you who has the *special* adapters made by Glenn, right?
 Otherwise the 6SN7 can't be used with the 6-SE.
EDIT: Never mind, it is you, you lucky dog! 







bonesnv said:


> The 6EM7's were the only tubes I could use in my 6SE to tame the T1's highs that I was getting with other tubes, so they have their uses.
> 
> Everything to do with tube amps is personal preference.


 
 Didn't mean any insult on your preference in any way (sorry), this was just my experience.
 I agree 100%, it is a matter of personal preference.


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> I forget if it you who has the *special* adapters made by Glenn, right?
> Otherwise the 6SN7 can't be used with the 6-SE.
> EDIT: *Never mind, it is you, you lucky dog!*


 




  
 But of course, someone can DIY or get adapters DIY'd for them.


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> But of course, someone can DIY or get adapters DIY'd for them.


 
 Help me out here, please!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What are you exactly saying, besides making them myself, I don't know what makes them *special* in order for them to work with the 6-SE. I even asked Jack if he could make them for me being Glenn mase them, and he didn't reply.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> TonyN, with all do respect sir I completely understand your disappointment with your initial power/driver tube purchases. I offer you the possibility that Jack Wu picked those tubes as premium upgrades because they matched the engineering parameters that he feels, as a builder, would best match the technical specs for his hand built headphone amplifiers. I know, that sentence was way too long, but it was just a speculative postulation on my part.


 
 I'm not having a shot at Jack Wu - I really like my WA6. He makes good gear.
  
 The speil associated with the 7N7 and 6EM7 tube upgrades are quite specific about sonic improvements - and these were somewhat oversold IMHO. YMMV.
  
 I'm glad I found the 6SN7 sweet spot for my WA6.
  
 EDIT - spiel from Woo website shown below. This is pretty strong marketing language and leads the customer to expect great things from the 7N7 and 6EM7 upgrades. For me, only the 6SN7 really delivered. 7N7 was harsh in the treble. 6EM7 was warm at the cost of detail.
  
 As always, YMMV.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wongtonypr said:


> Have anyone tried both the EML tubes and Psvane tubes on WA5?
> I've just ordered a pair of  Psvane we300b, we274b and cv181 mark2 from a local dealer, and suddenly saw a pair of EML 300b mesh and 274B mesh for sale in the second market..
> Are the EML's really 'better' or just personal preference on sound?


 
  
 probably not a huge upgrade from the psvane 274b.
  
 i myself am using a pair of CV 593's on the WA5, i prefer them to EML, 596, and many others.


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> Help me out here, please!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 1. The adapters have a resistor inside
 2. Jack doesn't believe the _6 Special Edition _should run 6SN7 series tubes. Previously, a few owners may have used adapters without understanding the need for resistors. And returned the debris to _WooAudio_ (ouch!)
 3. Will connect with you via PM; see if I can assist with someone making you adapters.


----------



## Silent One

dubstep girl said:


> probably not a huge upgrade from the psvane 274b.
> 
> i myself am using a pair of CV 593's on the WA5, i prefer them to EML, 596, and many others.


 
 Your signature is looking really clean there...and impressive! Is the Forte hogging HE-6 duty or do you have the WA5 gettin' in on some of that action?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

silent one said:


> Your signature is looking really clean there...and impressive! Is the Forte hogging HE-6 duty or do you have the WA5 gettin' in on some of that action?


 
  
 yeah! the buy-back is taking longer than expected, sometime around the holidays I think, something to look forward too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 WA5 definitely, in fact, i've been using it more than the speaker amp! The speaker amp is probably better overall (neutral, tons of power, bass), but the WA5 is just soo good!!


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> I'm not having a shot at Jack Wu - I really like my WA6. He makes good gear.
> 
> The speil associated with the 7N7 and 6EM7 tube upgrades are quite specific about sonic improvements - and these were somewhat oversold IMHO. YMMV.
> 
> I'm glad I found the 6SN7 sweet spot for my WA6.


I'm not taking a shot either. I really like my WA6 and I'm also glad that I tripped over the 6SN7 sweet spot.


----------



## Khragon

Getting ready to put in an order for my WA5.. any advice on if the upgraded part is worth the money?
 I'm thinking of not spending 1/3 the total amp cost for upgrade and put that money into tubes instead.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> I'm not having a shot at Jack Wu - I really like my WA6. He makes good gear.
> 
> The speil associated with the 7N7 and 6EM7 tube upgrades are quite specific about sonic improvements - and these were somewhat oversold IMHO. YMMV.
> 
> ...


 
 Agreed 100%


----------



## GalaxyGuy

musicman59 said:


> I have the 300B Mesh in my WA5-LE and I used to have the 5U4G Mesh also.
> I switch the 5U4G for the USF 596 because the 596 was more dynamic and faster. I have only compared the 300B Mesh to the EAT that I also own and I prefer the EML. It sound is more organic and the base goes deeper.
> 
> I have been very interested in the Psvane WE300B and CV181 MkII but I have not been able to find any reviews so if you buy them please let me know what do you think.
> ...


 
 I had a pair of the CV181 TIIs for my WA22 and one of the tubes died inside of 6 months.  PSvane has a reputation for having sporadic problems, and I guess I ended up with a bad one.  Before they died I think the NOS upgrades that I bought from Jack were better than the PSvane tubes.  It's been a while now, though.


----------



## bonesnv

I'm just waiting for my U52 to arrive and I will be done with the tube buying for a bit.  Actually more anxious for this tube than I was the 422, because I loved the CV593, which everyone describes as the baby U52.  The WA22 is my end game amp, so figured may as well go all out and see how I can make her sing.


----------



## lojay

justin_time said:


> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> The GS-X Mark2 produced a smooth and well-articulated sound with silky transients and plenty of inner details with nary a trace of sibilance, hardness or glare. The feathery light and silky smooth transients of the GS-X Mk2 must be heard to be believed. The focus and imaging is very natural (neither forward nor recessed) and the soundstage was the largest I ever heard from the HD800 and HE-6 endowing the sound with the presence, air and layers of live music. The bass was tight and solid with tremendous impact. The greatest strength of the GS-X Mk2 is its ability to perform well with all kinds of headphones and all kinds of music.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Justin! 
  
 I suppose words cannot describe how good these amps are without one having listened to them. I listen to an eclectic range of music so it seems the WA5 would be a better amp for me than say the EAR HP4 (which you seem to suggest is fit for classical) and Bakoon (warm female vocals and instruments, I suppose, fit for small ensemble and jazz). Seems that the real contender for me would be the GSX MKII, unfortunately I have cancelled my order and went straight for the BHSE 
  
 Would you say that the WA5 is not as smooth in the transients and loses out in tonality? I seem to hear from owners of Eddie Current amps that WA5 is not as "smooth" as it should be and loses out on "musicality", whatever that means. I can't quite agree until I've heard those amps but I do enjoy the WA5 immensely.
  


dubstep girl said:


> yeah! the buy-back is taking longer than expected, sometime around the holidays I think, something to look forward too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi DG. What do you find are the differences between the two?
  


bonesnv said:


> I'm just waiting for my U52 to arrive and I will be done with the tube buying for a bit.  Actually more anxious for this tube than I was the 422, because I loved the CV593, which everyone describes as the baby U52.  The WA22 is my end game amp, so figured may as well go all out and see how I can make her sing.


 
  
 You will love the U52. It is the best tube upgrade on my WA5 _by far_. Holographic imaging, warm and beautiful tonality, etc...


----------



## wongtonypr

My psvane tubes has arrived...
 Definitely an improvement in every aspect.
 The tubes need some run-in, lets give them 30 hours first..


----------



## fhuang

wongtonypr said:


> My psvane tubes has arrived...
> Definitely an improvement in every aspect.
> The tubes need some run-in, lets give them 30 hours first..


 
  
  
 the 300b?  nice
  
 you talked a bit about the eml and the psvane 274b on wa5.  i have both and both sound very good.  to me, it's a coin flip.  very dynamic and transparent.  but i want to tube amp to sound tubey so i didn't care too much for neither.  but if i have to chose, i probably would take the psvane because they're cheaper, at least here in hong kong.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> Thanks Justin!
> 
> I suppose words cannot describe how good these amps are without one having listened to them. I listen to an eclectic range of music so it seems the WA5 would be a better amp for me than say the EAR HP4 (which you seem to suggest is fit for classical) and Bakoon (warm female vocals and instruments, I suppose, fit for small ensemble and jazz). Seems that the real contender for me would be the GSX MKII, unfortunately I have cancelled my order and went straight for the BHSE
> 
> ...


 
  
 Speaker amp seems to have more bass, as well as tightness, and power, able to get alot louder, more dynamic. the soundstage isn't as nice as WA5 and the sound is not as textured or layered as the tubes, its more like neutral flat and there it is kinda thing. however, the speaker amp is very transprent and more detailed overall than Woo, it more than makes up for it and overall, balance is still great, the HE-6 are a little brighter but they still have a warm character to them, the amp isn't ever too cold or missing in life, the liquidity and speed of the GSX is heard well when using it as a pre-amp. it doesn't lose quality.
  
 the WA5 has that tube midrange warmth character and euphony, its smoother, its more musical, bass isn't as strong or as tight, but there seems to be more depth to the bass, like more texture, body, and character, its more organic. the amp overall still isn't as detailed as solid-state, but just as transparent, also very revealing, and in many ways better. more musical as well as having a better overall synergy with the HE-6.
  
 so yeah, I can live with the WA5, its powerful enough, just enough... and sounds fantastic. its a big step up from the rest of the woos, world class amp that seems to do just about everything right.


----------



## kazsud

Currently listening to Seasons by Pete Jolly thru the Wa2  
  
 
  
  
 Also Daktari by Shelly Manne


----------



## bbophead

Wow, someone who likes West Coast jazz from the 50s/60s!
  
 This on vinyl.


----------



## lojay

dubstep girl said:


> Speaker amp seems to have more bass, as well as tightness, and power, able to get alot louder, more dynamic. the soundstage isn't as nice as WA5 and the sound is not as textured or layered as the tubes, its more like neutral flat and there it is kinda thing. however, the speaker amp is very transprent and more detailed overall than Woo, it more than makes up for it and overall, balance is still great, the HE-6 are a little brighter but they still have a warm character to them, the amp isn't ever too cold or missing in life, the liquidity and speed of the GSX is heard well when using it as a pre-amp. it doesn't lose quality.
> 
> the WA5 has that tube midrange warmth character and euphony, its smoother, its more musical, bass isn't as strong or as tight, but there seems to be more depth to the bass, like more texture, body, and character, its more organic. the amp overall still isn't as detailed as solid-state, but just as transparent, also very revealing, and in many ways better. more musical as well as having a better overall synergy with the HE-6.
> 
> so yeah, I can live with the WA5, its powerful enough, just enough... and sounds fantastic. its a big step up from the rest of the woos, world class amp that seems to do just about everything right.


 
  
 Thanks for the impressions. I think I'm not so anxious to grab a new amp / speaker amp now. In fact, my new pair of Tungsol BGRPs have arrived. The WA5 sounds like a new amp now, as I realise my old pair was defective and highly microphonic. 
  
 Does it may sense to use the GSX as a pre for the WA5?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lojay said:


> Thanks for the impressions. I think I'm not so anxious to grab a new amp / speaker amp now. In fact, my new pair of Tungsol BGRPs have arrived. The WA5 sounds like a new amp now, as I realise my old pair was defective and highly microphonic.
> 
> Does it may sense to use the GSX as a pre for the WA5?


 
  
 i tried it, it worked pretty well, i haven't tried it again since though. i think it added more power or at least it felt like it, and the WA5 became slightly less warm and took on some of the GSX's sound.


----------



## joseph69

Re-listed the WA6-SE + upgraded tubes again…I took it off the F/S Forum to listen to the HD-800's through it for 2 days.


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> Re-listed the WA6-SE + upgraded tubes again…I took it off the F/S Forum to listen to the HD-800's through it for 2 days.


Congratulations Joseph for cutting the ribbon on the SE.


----------



## petezjunior

saw a review b/w the wa2 and wa6-se. for the 560s (listening to bass and electronic), suggestions on choosing between the wa6-se or the wa7 fireflies? thanks.


----------



## Justin_Time

khragon said:


> Getting ready to put in an order for my WA5.. any advice on if the upgraded part is worth the money?
> I'm thinking of not spending 1/3 the total amp cost for upgrade and put that money into tubes instead.


 
 That was the mistake I made.
  
 It turns out I could upgrade the tubes any time I wanted to but the parts  could be upgraded at that price_ only at the beginning_ while Woo is building the amp for you.
  
 If you want the very best sound, yes the part upgrade is worth it.  However, to upgrade the parts later is probably not possible--Woo does not like/want to do it--or so expensive as to not be worth the money.  So you have to make the decision to upgrade the parts or not now and carefully as it is pretty much irreversible.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## AppleheadMay

justin_time said:


> lojay said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks! I'll be quite happy if the WA5 can compete with these other amps. Before you've posted I have read your comparison of these amps in driving the HE-6, which is insightful. What would you say might be the WA5's flaws or areas needing improvement? Am I right to say, comparing the WA5 and GSX, the WA5 has more impact but less soundstage, and less smoth transients (ie translating into less detail)? Which has a more lush or smooth midrange? What do you mean by an impressive "focus" with the WA5? Also what tubes are you using?
> ...


 
  
  
 Justin_Time, sorry for bothering you with this another time but you are the only one I know of who has 3 of the 4 amps I'm intersted in as well as the TH-900.
 As the TH-900 is about the opposite of the HE-6 when it concerns amping, your opinion would be greatly appreciated.
 So my question is: which of these amps would you recommend for the TH-900?
  
 To give you some info about my preferences:
 I only like closed, dynamic, low impedance phones. (TH-900, D/LA7000, ATH woodies).
 I prefer a my sound to the euphonic side of neutral rather than than the analytical side but I do appreciate a black background.
 I'm looking for a top amp for this kind of phones and I've narrowed the choices down to four: GS-X MKII, WA5 LE, Bakoon HDA-5210mk3 and Luxman P-700u.
 I did own a few top amps a couple of years ago and used them with D7000, two different LA7000, L3000, W3000 and a few others.
 These amps were ATH-HA5000ANV, EAR HP4, ZDSE, P-1u, SQ-N100 and Yammy HA-02. The ZDSE was the one that I liked best.
 For the moment, the only Head-Fi worth mentioning I have is the TH-900 and HP-A8. Everything is in my profile.
  
 I'd love to have your opinion.


----------



## Justin_Time

appleheadmay said:


> Justin_Time, sorry for bothering you with this another time but you are the only one I know of who has 3 of the 4 amps I'm intersted in as well as the TH-900.
> As the TH-900 is about the opposite of the HE-6 when it concerns amping, your opinion would be greatly appreciated.
> So my question is: which of these amps would you recommend for the TH-900?
> 
> ...



 


Something happened to my previous reply!!! It is gone!

So here is a summary:

Any of the these amps will do fine with your headphones--I have the TH-900 (stock and mod.) and the LA-7000 as well. They get along fine with any of these amps.

I would rule out the Woo WA5-LE ($3,000 + $1200 upgraded parts + $1500 upgraded Tubes) . The sound is slightly leaner than with the lush tube sound that you like and you do not need the gonzo bass with your cans--they have plenty already. 

The safest tube route for your taste is the EAR HP-4. It has the classic tube sound with lush midrange, good details, presence and air, and a large sound-stage. But at the new price ($5,900), I think the new Apex Teton ($5,000) is a much better buy with a better sound to boot. Call Todd at TTVJ Audio for his opinion. He sells both.

The Bakoon will give you the warm sound of tube with vivid details but without the analytical sound of SS. Battery operated, it has a dead quiet background. It would go great with your current cans. But if you want an HE-6 in the future, it may not have the power supply to deliver great bass at high levels--I listen to the HE-6 at moderate levels so the Bakoon works fine for me.

The HeadAmp GS-X is the safest SS choice for now and for the future. It has a feathery smooth and delicate sound (not sterile), tremendous bass and very quiet background. It can play anything. But you will not have the warm midrange of tubes. And you'll have to wait for the next batch of amps to be made. Call HeadAmp to find out how long you have to wait.

As you see, there is no clear winner. It is a matter of preference, convinence and price.


----------



## musicman59

justin_time said:


> appleheadmay said:
> 
> 
> > Justin_Time, sorry for bothering you with this another time but you are the only one I know of who has 3 of the 4 amps I'm intersted in as well as the TH-900.
> ...


 
 For a SS i would add to the list the McIntosh MHA100. I personally like it better than the GS-X MkII  and can also drive any dynamic and electromagnetic headphones.


----------



## Justin_Time

musicman59 said:


> For a SS i would add to the list the McIntosh MHA100. I personally like it better than the GS-X MkII  and can also drive any dynamic and electromagnetic headphones.



 


Thanks for the additional recommendation.

BTW, there is no power limitation with the HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 driving dynamic or planar headphones (except perhaps the power ogre AKG K1000). 

 It drove the HE-6 to ear-splitting levels!

One question about the MHA100: is there a headphone plug and do you use it or do you have to build a resistor array across the speaker binding posts and use a headphone-plug adaptor?

Cheers!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Musicman, thanks for the recommendation as well but I'm going for a separate amp. Somehow it just fits my path to a great system better.
 A Dac is something that I need to be able to replace easily, technology is evolving too fast in that area. 
  
 Justin_Time, sorry to hear your original post is gone but your elaborate summary gave me all the info I need though and really helped me in making my decision.
 I decided the best idea for me is to not go the tube way and take the straight-forward, best bet GS-X.
 I have the HP-A8 as a Dac at the moment which is far from analytical or sharp and may upgrade it later this year with another Dac to tailor the midrange even more to my preference, if necessary.
 Also, some of the phones I'm still after (AT) are far from neutral and would probably be better served with a GS-X than an amp that emphasizes the midrange even more.
  
 As you see, for me it's all about tailoring a system that fits my ears.
 Planar and electrostatic phones have been ruled out for me.
 Same with open dynamics, except for the HD-650 which I will buy again to try with the balanced output of the GS-X, with a silver cable.
 The K1000 was something else though, I have very fond memories of that one out of the speaker outputs of the SQ-N100!
 I'd love to buy that one again if they weren't so old, drivers do wear out with age.
 And I absolutely love the Denon/Fostex and AT wooden phones.
  
 Again, thanks for all the help I got from the people in this thread and the GS-X thread!


----------



## musicman59

I am not using its DAC since I have a Bricasti M1 with the latest upgrades. I bought it just to be used a an amplifier. I love my pair of MC601 in my main speakers system and the MHA100 has the same sound signature so it was just the right amplifier for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

Question for my fellow Woo-ites.
  
 I have been waiting to try the Shuguang Treasure CV-181s (6SN7 equivalents) in my WA6. The treasures arrived today - the problem is that they are very fat for a 6SN7 tube and the WA6 does not have great spacing in its socket layout.
  
 I had to change out my fat SP 274B for my thinner EML 274B rectifier to provide enough space to fit them in. Even with the rectifier change, the glass bodies of the 6SN7s are pressed firmly up against the EML 274B tube. All tubes (and 6DE7 -> 6SN7 adapters) are firmly seated - so all the connections are good.
  
 I'm expecting the same situation when I get my Sophia Electric 6SN7s - they are also a fat tube 6SN7.
  
 Is this bad? Can I expect to shorten the life of my tubes by having them touching like this, or am I concerned about nothing? If it was a problem I could look for a NOS rectifier with straight sides, but I don't want to do that unless necessary as I am very happy with my SP and EML 274Bs - both very good sounding tubes.
  
  BTW - the CV-181 treasures sound OK right out of the box - a little dry and brittle as you might expect with zero burn in, but not bad at all. Looking forward to hearing these babies after 50+ hours.
  
 EDIT - I think I might be worried about nothing. The tubes are warm to the touch - not so hot you have to remove your hand or get burned - and the glass is tough and thick on the EML and the treasures. Also, they operate at very similar temperatures based on my touch. I can't see this causing a thermal stress problem in the glass - but would appreciate any input from folks that know more about tubes than I do (and that would be just about everybody on this forum).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tonynewman said:


> Question for my fellow Woo-ites.
> 
> I have been waiting to try the Shuguang Treasure CV-181s (6SN7 equivalents) in my WA6. The treasures arrived today - the problem is that they are very fat for a 6SN7 tube and the WA6 does not have great spacing in its socket layout.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 you'll be fine with Sophia 6SN7.... at least this picture seems to show its ok...
  
 the tubes touching shouldn't be an issue, though certain areas of the tube might be a little warmer, like small hot spots, but i don't see any real problem, also the woos always seem rather cool, both amp and tube temperatures..


----------



## joseph69

Ive noticed latley that upon power up my on WA6 or my 5692 tube(s) after about 15-20 seconds make a clicking/popping sound, then it stops. I havn't changed the tube(s) yet too rule them out. Has anyone experienced this with relation to a bad tube(s) before?


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> Ive noticed latley that upon power up my on WA6 or my 5692 tube(s) after about 15-20 seconds make a clicking/popping sound, then it stops. I havn't changed the tube(s) yet too rule them out. Has anyone experienced this with relation to a bad tube(s) before?


 
  
 Should not be an issue (per Jack), mine do it during warm-up and it stops after 5 or so minutes, but I usually wait about 15 minutes before listening to music.  Jack actually has a note about this in the FAQ page on their website.
  
 Someone more knowledgeable can probably provide more insight as to why or if Jack is incorrect.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> Should not be an issue (per Jack), mine do it during warm-up and it stops after 5 or so minutes, but I usually wait about 15 minutes before listening to music.  Jack actually has a note about this in the FAQ page on their website.
> 
> Someone more knowledgeable can probably provide more insight as to why or if Jack is incorrect.


 
 Thank for the info.
 My first WA6 never did this. Besides, the clicking/popping only goes on for 15-20 seconds, and then stops, and everything is fine and there are no issues. Thanks again, I'll check out the FAQ page.


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> you'll be fine with Sophia 6SN7.... at least this picture seems to show its ok...
> 
> the tubes touching shouldn't be an issue, though certain areas of the tube might be a little warmer, like small hot spots, but i don't see any real problem, also the woos always seem rather cool, both amp and tube temperatures..


 
  
 Thank you so much for posting the picture - that really helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Shuguang Treasures are fat and tall - I think that is what creates the space problem. The widest part of the driver tubes are just below the level of the widest part of the rectifier.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > Ive noticed latley that upon power up my on WA6 or my 5692 tube(s) after about 15-20 seconds make a clicking/popping sound, then it stops. I havn't changed the tube(s) yet too rule them out. Has anyone experienced this with relation to a bad tube(s) before?
> ...


 
 I follow the rule of tubes.  Let them settle down before listening.  Five minutes to thirty minutes.  As everything warms up, better sound results.


----------



## joseph69

bbophead said:


> I follow the rule of tubes.  Let them settle down before listening.  Five minutes to thirty minutes.  As everything warms up, better sound results.


 
 I do exactly the same thing. I'm not talking about clicking/popping through the headphone drivers…Its either the amp/tube(s), but I'm pretty sure the right tube is making this noise, but its hard to tell. I also let my amp tubes warm up for at least 20 minutes.


----------



## bonesnv

I noticed a few weeks back that I had a loose base on one of my NOS tubes.  No gas/air leaks, shortages or really anything of note, and it is only a slight movement (more like a wiggle) side to side not up and down.  Tube still works perfectly fine at the moment.
  
 Reading various websites and forum posts over the past couple of weeks, it seems mixed on best way to "band-aid" the situation.  Most seem to lean towards JB Weld or a high temp RTV that is compatible with electronics, clear nail polish, or buying tube glue from EML.  
  
 Alternatively, do I just ignore it and simply make sure I am careful and not really do much tube rolling with it, or yanking it by the glass, etc.?


----------



## joseph69

The tube is built very well, no movement at all. Tonight I may switch the tubes out and listen for the noise with a different set in the amp.


----------



## Silent One

Jus me but...I do 2 hour warm-ups with all my tube amps. NOT required but because I can.


----------



## bbophead

Tubes will drive you crazy IF YOU LET THEM.


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> Jus me but...I do 2 hour warm-ups with all my tube amps. NOT required but because I can.


 
 WOW!!!


----------



## Glam Bash

bonesnv said:


> I noticed a few weeks back that I had a loose base on one of my NOS tubes.


 
 I have used clear nail polish on a few tubes and it worked just fine.


----------



## roskodan

sesam said:


> Yay! my weekend is saved, the Sophia Princess 274B mesh tube arrived here this morning, so now I can directly compare it with the rigid plate version. Have been listening for some time, and while the mesh does sound very similar there appears to be some subtle difference.
> 
> My first impression is that the mesh doesn't sound brighter or thinner (good news because that is what I had feared, based on other peoples impressions).The only difference that stands out for me so far is the bass, the rigid plate appears to hit harder and have a tighter bass. The bass with the mesh sounds like it is slightly softer and "boomier" if tthat makes any sense


 

 can someone give impressions about the Sophia Princess 274B mesh vs rigid plate, soundwise, pros and cons of each of the two? i'm looking for an upgrade for the wa6-se,
  
 also, any experiences with the 274B, Sophia vs EML? the EML is like double the price!


----------



## bonesnv

I would recommend saving a bit of cash and getting a Mullard GZ32/CV593 for $70ish instead, over the SP or EML's.  To me, the GZ32 sounded superior to the SP Mesh I had, much more depth to the music.  I have not bothered with the EML at this time so I can't comment on that one.
  
 Also, DG's rectifier thread is a wealth of knowledge and discusses the specific tubes you mentioned, may want to read up when you have some time.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## TonyNewman

roskodan said:


> can someone give impressions about the Sophia Princess 274B mesh vs rigid plate, soundwise, pros and cons of each of the two? i'm looking for an upgrade for the wa6-se,
> 
> also, any experiences with the 274B, Sophia vs EML? the EML is like double the price!


 
  
 EDIT - beaten to the punch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
There is an excellent thread comparing several rectifier tubes, including the SP and EML 274Bs. Link below.
  
Link.
  
 I have the SP mesh 274B and the EML mesh 274B that I use in my WA6. I like both, but prefer the EML. The SP is warmer to my ears, but the EML digs deeper and performs better at both ends (highs and lows). Not sure the difference is worth the price difference - both are good tubes for me.


----------



## roskodan

thank you all, i now remember seeing the thread featured on the homepage here some time ago, totally forgot about it
  
 got any good recommendations for tubes to use with the wa6-se hd800 combo? i would like something with textured tight bass, lot of body weight and texture in the mids and nice crystal treble that hits hard with weight?


----------



## bonesnv

So I got some fancy new adapters today, which solved my numerous issues with my 6F8G's and I think they look far far better too.  The 596 adapter fully attaches to the rods and he had some red connector ends left over so he let me opt to use them, think it was a good choice.
  

  
  
 Best of all, no static, no noise and connectors all fit perfectly, so I can finally fully enjoy the tubes now.  The other nice thing being the connector wire placements on the adapter.  The 596 even sounds better with the rods being fully connected as the other adapter was also tad loose compared to this one.  Now I just need to find a way the tube savers can be painted without causing massive damage, I hate the white.
  
 Thanks again Glenn for all of the help and various adapters, really makes the amp sing.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> So I got some fancy new adapters today, which solved my numerous issues with my 6F8G's and I think they look far far better too.  The 596 adapter fully attaches to the rods and he had some red connector ends left over so he let me opt to use them, think it was a good choice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Glenn adapters are definitely the way to go!
 I'm a little nuts with the tube base colors, I don't care for the brown/red bases too much on the 6SN7's, so I wrap them with flat black vinyl adhesive…looks much better too me.


----------



## roskodan

silversurfer616 said:


> I do...as they came with the WA6 I've received 2 days ago.But the Sylvania that were part of the deal sound better to me.
> Next week I should get a SEL Lorenz GZ32 NOS rectifier tube from Germany(early 60's  military) and then I will decide whether I need the Sophia Princess or not!
> Knowing myself.....I do need her!


 

 did you, or anyone else, like the sel lorenz? http://www.ebay.com/itm/201072593867?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
  
 what about GZ32 / 5V4G / CV593 Telefunken Vintage Tube NOS Philips Holland ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/130850212618?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## silversurfer616

Thanks for quoting my old post and yes, the Lorenz is a good tube and I alternated it with the Sophia.
But as it is a very old post I have sold the Woo in the meantime and have a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball now.


----------



## TonyNewman

Hi Fellow Woo-ists. Set up my new and shiny WA5 last night and would like to throw some first impressions out there.
  

Stock tubes suck pretty hard. Even so, the sound is not as bad as I was expecting even when put through some rather putrid tubes and with zero burn in. I am hoping for great things once I have some decent tubes installed and the burn in is complete.
The K1000 output drives the HE6 easily. No question in my mind that the WA5 has plenty of juice to drive the HE6. It also does good things with the HD800 via the same K1000 output, just be very careful with that gain knob.
Drives my floorstanders easily also - mine are 8 Ohm / 90 dB sensitivity - which I think is quite a common set of characteristics. I had read somewhere that sensitivity in the mid 90s (or higher) was recommended for the WA5 to act as a speaker amp. I respectfully disagree. Both the HE6 (via the K1000 output) and my floorstanders (via the speaker taps) are driven to 'comfortably loud' levels at around the 9am position on the gain control. That is barely switched on - huge amounts of headroom available.
Using the output selector switch while the unit is powered up produces a very loud BANG. That is not good for your ears or the equipment. I have to turn the volume down, then switch off the power, then wait a few seconds for the capacitors to partially discharge, then make the output selection change, then power up. I really should not have to do this for audio equipment at this price level. Not that big of a deal, but a minor annoyance.
Some of the switches (particularly the output selector) are clunky and lacking a positive 'feel' to them. Again, I would expect better at this price point.
  
 A few minor issues, but the power of this unit is very apparent. I bought it to use as my end-game tube amp for both headphones and speakers and it certainly has the juice to do both.
  
 I can't say anything much about SQ without decent tubes and a burn in, but plenty of other folks have had stellar results with good tube combinations on the WA5.
  
 Overall I am very pleased so far.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well a new member to the Woo camp.
  
 I have just ordered today a WA22 in black. Balanced connection is what grabbed me.
  
 It will be a while before I can use. Woo has to make and I live in New Zealand so a bit of time to ship to me.
  
 I will be using the following:
  
 Oppo HA-1 balanced out to Woo Balanced Input out to balanced connection Audeze LCD-3.
  
 Very excited.


----------



## Silent One

@ Badas
 Getting' it right and gettin' it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Black!


----------



## Badas

silent one said:


> @ Badas
> Getting' it right and gettin' it
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Cheers!
  
 Gotta match my other stuff. Once ya go black there is no going back.


----------



## Silent One

Can't wait to see the Woo! Well...minus the world travel stickers from different cities.


----------



## roskodan

silversurfer616 said:


> Thanks for quoting my old post and yes, the Lorenz is a good tube and I alternated it with the Sophia.
> But as it is a very old post I have sold the Woo in the meantime and have a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball now.


 

 No problem (hopefully you are not being sarcastic), i just ordered one, so i'll have at least something to compare to the stock Shuguang 274B, while i hunt for rare expensive NOS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 thx


----------



## whirlwind

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Nice.
> 
> ...


 
 I am very seriously thinking about the WA22 also.
  
 This amps balanced inputs have grabbed my attention.
  
 My chain would be.....PS audio Nuwave balanced out  >  Woo WA22 balanced input > balanced HD800


----------



## jc9394

whirlwind said:


> My chain would be.....PS audio Nuwave balanced out  >  Woo WA22 balanced input > balanced HD800


 
  
 That should be a great combo, my setup was very similar and it held me back for upgrade itch for over three years.  Get the Q Audio cable for HD800.


----------



## Stereolab42

Yay, my 6SE and 22 are shipping today. Jack has confirmed the 22 now comes with a phase splitter on the unbalanced inputs, which will give us more connection flexibility while making full use of the amp.


----------



## JES

stereolab42 said:


> Yay, my 6SE and 22 are shipping today. Jack has confirmed the 22 now comes with a phase splitter on the unbalanced inputs, which will give us more connection flexibility while making full use of the amp.




Congrats on the new amps. 

Could you indulge my ignorance and explain the phase splitter function, or perhaps cite an example of its use?


----------



## Stereolab42

jes said:


> Congrats on the new amps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It converts an unbalanced signal to a balanced differential signal, which allows the amp to operate at full gain. Otherwise you could only use half the amp's power.


----------



## JES

stereolab42 said:


> It converts an unbalanced signal to a balanced differential signal, which allows the amp to operate at full gain. Otherwise you could only use half the amp's power.




Thank you


----------



## bbophead

tonynewman said:


> Hi Fellow Woo-ists. Set up my new and shiny WA5 last night and would like to throw some first impressions out there.
> 
> 
> Stock tubes suck pretty hard. Even so, the sound is not as bad as I was expecting even when put through some rather putrid tubes and with zero burn in. I am hoping for great things once I have some decent tubes installed and the burn in is complete.
> ...


----------



## TontNZ

tonynewman said:


> Hi Fellow Woo-ists. Set up my new and shiny WA5 last night and would like to throw some first impressions out there.
> 
> 
> Stock tubes suck pretty hard. Even so, the sound is not as bad as I was expecting even when put through some rather putrid tubes and with zero burn in. I am hoping for great things once I have some decent tubes installed and the burn in is complete.
> ...


 
  
 I've a WA5-LE (maxed) that's been sitting in it's boxes by my desk for the last couple of months, pending the completion of a home office reorganisation.  And waiting for a local joinery company to build me a custom american oak hi-fi stand!
  
 So being a fellow owner, your comments are interesting.  I guess at the end of the day, it's a value judgement proposition:  Does the sound quality, build quality vs price stack up?  By the time you put some decent tubes in them, they sure ain't cheap.
  
 I guess I'll start to draw my own conclusions when I get my new system set up (hopefully within the next couple of weeks).
  
 P.S.  Have you purchased any "decent" tubes for you WA5 yet?  If so what ones?
  
 Enjoy your new acquisition + All the best - Peter


----------



## musicman59

tontnz said:


> I've a WA5-LE (maxed) that's been sitting in it's boxes by my desk for the last couple of months, pending the completion of a home office reorganisation.  And waiting for a local joinery company to build me a custom american oak hi-fi stand!
> 
> So being a fellow owner, your comments are interesting.  I guess at the end of the day, it's a value judgement proposition:  Does the sound quality, build quality vs price stack up?  By the time you put some decent tubes in them, they sure ain't cheap.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I personally like the EML 300B Mesh for power tubes. For drivers I like the Tungsol 6SN7GT Black Glass/Round Plates, Tungsol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates with Glenn adapters, Mullard ECC32 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top short bottle.
 For rectifiers I like EML 5U4G, USF 596 with Glenn adapters and Brimar 5R4GY fromthe ones I have tried. Th e Cossor 53KU supposed to be awsome but they are expensive and haven't find a good mathed pair.
  
 I also have a pair of EAT 300B that I have not tried yet but suppose to be pretty good too.


----------



## TonyNewman

tontnz said:


> I've a WA5-LE (maxed) that's been sitting in it's boxes by my desk for the last couple of months, pending the completion of a home office reorganisation.  And waiting for a local joinery company to build me a custom american oak hi-fi stand!
> 
> So being a fellow owner, your comments are interesting.  I guess at the end of the day, it's a value judgement proposition:  Does the sound quality, build quality vs price stack up?  By the time you put some decent tubes in them, they sure ain't cheap.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Peter - thanks. It has taken me awhile to get my head around tube amps, but have gone full bore with the WA5.
  
 The issues I found with the WA5 are minor niggles - the power is fantastic - and it will wreck my hearing + headphones if I keep turning the gain knob. There's plenty more juice in reserve for both the HE6 and floorstanding speakers.
  
 I hope my small moans didn't give the impression that I am dissatisfied with the WA5 - that is not the case at all.
  
 One thing I learned playing with my WA6 is that it is all about the tubes. The right tubes in the right combination to get the sound you like. There is no point putting crap tubes in an amp and expecting great things. Having said that, I am still surprised at how good the WA5 sounds with the rubbish stock tubes.
  
 To answer your question, I have a number of tubes on the way that will give the following options:
 300B - Sophia Princess / Sophia Royal Princess
 274B - Sophia Princess / EML Mesh / Mullard GZ-32
 Driver - Sylvania 6SN7GTB / Shuguang Treasure CV-181 / PSVANE CV-181 / Sophia 6SN7.
  
 I also have a bunch of craptastic NOS tubes that I would not waste time with by putting in the WA5.
  
 I would like to try EML 300Bs at some point, as I really like the EML mesh 274B in my WA6. EML make beautiful tubes with a great sound.
  
 Plenty of tube rolling fun in there. I will be trying more NOS driver tubes in the future also.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> ... For drivers I like the Tungsol 6SN7GT Black Glass/Round Plates, Tungsol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates with Glenn adapters, Mullard ECC32 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top short bottle....


 
  
 Drool ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Good NOS drivers will be my next tube rolling priority after burn in with my new toy


----------



## Silent One

tontnz said:


> *I've a WA5-LE (maxed) that's been sitting in it's boxes by my desk for the last couple of months, pending the completion of a home office reorganisation.*  *And waiting for a local joinery company to build me a custom american oak hi-fi stand!*
> 
> So being a fellow owner, your comments are interesting.  I guess at the end of the day, it's a value judgement proposition:  Does the sound quality, build quality vs price stack up?  By the time you put some decent tubes in them, they sure ain't cheap.
> 
> ...


 
 Very exciting! Don't forget to flash some pix.


----------



## whirlwind

jc9394 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > My chain would be.....PS audio Nuwave balanced out  >  Woo WA22 balanced input > balanced HD800
> ...


 
  
 Thank you, very much.


----------



## TontNZ

tonynewman said:


> Hi Peter - thanks. It has taken me awhile to get my head around tube amps, but have gone full bore with the WA5.
> 
> The issues I found with the WA5 are minor niggles - the power is fantastic - and it will wreck my hearing + headphones if I keep turning the gain knob. There's plenty more juice in reserve for both the HE6 and floorstanding speakers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for responding to my question about the tubes.  In addition to the tubes that come with it, so far I've purchased:
  
 Power:     EML 300B
 Rectifier:  Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B, Mullard UK GZ33  (very tall slender “G” shape, also brown base)
 Driver:      Sylvania 6SN7GT, RCA 6F8G, Tung-Sol 6F8G (I'm waiting on Woo 6SN7 - > 6F8G Teflon adapters)
  
 Apart from the EML's all are NOS.
  
 You've certainly sunk a few bucks on tubes!
  
 I'd like to try (meaning I'll buy as I can afford them):
 Sophia Royal Princess 300B, KR Audio 300B Balloon and EAT 300B.
 Philips USA 5692 [Red base – RCA made – 1960’s]
  
 This hobby is impoverishing!!  In the last four months I've purchased the WA5-LE (maxed) + the above tubes + a Cord Hugo + Audeze LCD-X's + custom Hi-Fi rack ($1,200).  Still need to build a dedicated PC as the source (all FLAC for me).  Gets out of hand real quick.  It's not the kind of hobby you throw the odd discretionary dollar or so at, it's more the beg, borrow steal kind!!
  
 Thanks again - Peter


----------



## TontNZ

musicman59 said:


> I personally like the EML 300B Mesh for power tubes. For drivers I like the Tungsol 6SN7GT Black Glass/Round Plates, Tungsol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates with Glenn adapters, Mullard ECC32 and Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top short bottle.
> For rectifiers I like EML 5U4G, USF 596 with Glenn adapters and Brimar 5R4GY fromthe ones I have tried. Th e Cossor 53KU supposed to be awsome but they are expensive and haven't find a good mathed pair.
> 
> I also have a pair of EAT 300B that I have not tried yet but suppose to be pretty good too.


 
 I also have a pair of the Tung-Sol 6F8G's (beautiful - pure tube porn!) and I'm waiting on the Woo Audio 6SN7 - > 6F8G Teflon adapters.
  
 I purchased the standard (plate) EML 300B's as after a lot of research I believe that the bass characteristics will (hopefully) appeal to me.  I'm very interested in how you find the EAT 300B's as they are on my wish list as well.
  
 All the best from NZ - Peter


----------



## TonyNewman

tontnz said:


> Thanks for responding to my question about the tubes.  In addition to the tubes that come with it, so far I've purchased:
> 
> Power:     EML 300B
> Rectifier:  Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B, Mullard UK GZ33  (very tall slender “G” shape, also brown base)
> ...


 
  





 Totally get that. I was going to stop with the WA6 + HD600. Then went for the Auralic Vega + Taurus for some solid state goodness with HD800/LCD-X/HE6. Some tube rolling on the WA6 got me wanting the WA5... and here I am. Spent way too many ducats on this hobby.
  
 Enjoying the hell out of it, but I have to learn when to stop


----------



## TontNZ

silent one said:


> _*Very exciting! Don't forget to flash some pix.*_


 
 Will do!!  I can post a few pics of a big pile of boxes


----------



## Silent One

Absolutely...warm that cam!


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> Hi Peter - thanks. It has taken me awhile to get my head around tube amps, but have gone full bore with the WA5.
> 
> The issues I found with the WA5 are minor niggles - the power is fantastic - and it will wreck my hearing + headphones if I keep turning the gain knob. There's plenty more juice in reserve for both the HE6 and floorstanding speakers.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you provide some feedback or impressions on the Psvane CV181? I used to own the Treasure CV-181Z and I did not like them that much but I have a pair of Psvane 12AX7 in my McIntosh preamp and really like them.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> Can you provide some feedback or impressions on the Psvane CV181? I used to own the Treasure CV-181Z and I did not like them that much but I have a pair of Psvane 12AX7 in my McIntosh preamp and really like them.


 
  
 I can, once I have the tubes in my possession and burned in. I don't have the Psvanes yet - they are on the way. The treasures are only about half way burned in - still a little harsh, but good extension both ends.


----------



## TontNZ

silent one said:


> Absolutely...warm that cam!


 
 We'll here's the boxes (unopened) and the custom Hi-Fi rack, which is a blatant rip-off (NZ made from US oak), of the UK Hi-Fi Racks gear.  I hope they find imitation flattering rather than offensive, given that I'd have had to ship their product 13,000 miles!!!  The bottom two plinths are 40mm and the top plinth 20mm, everything is solid oak.


----------



## joseph69

Very cool!!!
 I love seeing/opening new audio equipment!
 Enjoy!!!
  
  


   

  




Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## lojay

I use my WA5 with the following tubes (with my hearing notes):

Output: Sophia Royal Princess 300B (warm sound, rounded or bloated but satisfying bass, strange soundstage and slight unnaturalness in mid range, still very good), AVVT AV32B (amazingly linear, neutral, tight but less bloated bass, less bass quantity, natural soundstage, natural midrange, overall more transparent than Sophia RP)

Driver: Sylvania 6SN7W metal base (incredibly expensive, expansive soundstage and a grand sound, better and less fuzzy imaging than the rest, tends to emphasise treble and can be fatiguing, decent bass, good for classical), Tungsol 6SN7GT BGRP (love it - natural, balanced tonality, does not sacrifice musicality, better bass than most other 6SN7 tubes I've tried, decent soundstage, tames bright headphones, microphonic so I recommend a good NOS pair sold by reputable seller), Kenrad 6SN7 (mediocre performance, let down by the amazing bass it is supposed to have, much prefer the Tungsols), Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base (good balanced tonality, but nothing special like the Tungsols)

Rectifiers: GEC U52 (had biggest impact on soundstage compared to stock, warm tonality and slightly euphonic colourations, see DubstepGirl's massive rectifier review for better comparisons!)


----------



## TonyNewman

lojay said:


> I use my WA5 with the following tubes (with my hearing notes):
> 
> Output: Sophia Royal Princess 300B (warm sound, rounded or bloated but satisfying bass, strange soundstage and slight unnaturalness in mid range, still very good), AVVT AV32B (amazingly linear, neutral, tight but less bloated bass, less bass quantity, natural soundstage, natural midrange, overall more transparent than Sophia RP)
> 
> ...


 
  
 ******* nice tubes


----------



## Redcarmoose

tontnz said:


> We'll here's the boxes (unopened) and the custom Hi-Fi rack, which is a blatant rip-off (NZ made from US oak), of the UK Hi-Fi Racks gear.  I hope they find imitation flattering rather than offensive, given that I'd have had to ship their product 13,000 miles!!!  The bottom two plinths are 40mm and the top plinth 20mm, everything is solid oak.





Let the honeymoon begin!


Your only a few feet from heaven's door. I don't know how you waited so long? Still it is fun to look forward to things. 
Congratulations.....wow!


----------



## lojay

tonynewman said:


> ******* nice tubes


----------



## TonyNewman

lojay said:


>


 

 I have just plugged in the Raytheon 6SN7GTBs that came with the WA5 - and even with zero burn in they sound better than the Sophia 6SN7s and the Treasure CV-181s. What? In 2014 nobody can make a driver tube, for around $100 a piece, that sounds half as good as something pumped out by the thousands in the 50s for a few bucks?


----------



## kkcc

tonynewman said:


> I have just plugged in the Raytheon 6SN7GTBs that came with the WA5 - and even with zero burn in they sound better than the Sophia 6SN7s and the Treasure CV-181s. What? In 2014 nobody can make a driver tube, for around $100 a piece, that sounds half as good as something pumped out by the thousands in the 50s for a few bucks?




Well the 6SN7GTBs are generally good performer and can be had for very reasonable prices. My personal favorite is still the sylvania vt231. Fwiw I didn't had much good experience with the new Chinese/Czech tubes. The only one that I kept is the Sophia princess 274B, but I still find myself using the usaf596 more often. I'm still tempted to try the psvane cv181II but my logical mind tells me not....


----------



## dsd-7

I just bought a pair of Audeze LCD-2 rev.2 headphones for use with my Woo WA6.  I am wanting to hear more low end/bass and overall richness from this setup.  I had always heard the Audeze cans were great in the bass dept.  So maybe I need to change my tube choice??  I currently have these tubes, which are not giving me the bass and richness I am craving...
  
 -Philips 5R4GYS rectifier NOS
 -Sovtek 5AR4 rectifier
 -Shuguang 274B rectifier
  
 -RCA 6DE7 with shield divider NOS output tubes
 -Pinnacle 6DR7 output tubes
  
 Any advice will be greatly appreciated.  I am willing to sacrifice some detail to get more low end punch and richness.  I favor a warm, rolled off sound vs detailed and clinical, which is mainly why I bought the Audeze cans.  If you guys would recommend a different pair of cans, please let me know.  Thanks in advance guys!


----------



## bonesnv

tonynewman said:


> I have just plugged in the Raytheon 6SN7GTBs that came with the WA5 - and even with zero burn in they sound better than the Sophia 6SN7s and the Treasure CV-181s. What? In 2014 nobody can make a driver tube, for around $100 a piece, that sounds half as good as something pumped out by the thousands in the 50s for a few bucks?


 
  
 It's because people took pride in their work back then.  Now a days everyone just wants to get that dollar.


----------



## Silent One

Some vintage electronic goodies cannot be made like they once were due to RoHS Compliance issues.


----------



## Badas

tontnz said:


> We'll here's the boxes (unopened) and the custom Hi-Fi rack, which is a blatant rip-off (NZ made from US oak), of the UK Hi-Fi Racks gear.  I hope they find imitation flattering rather than offensive, given that I'd have had to ship their product 13,000 miles!!!  The bottom two plinths are 40mm and the top plinth 20mm, everything is solid oak.




Where are you in NZ. I'm from Auckland. Got a Woo on the way as well.


----------



## TontNZ

badas said:


> Where are you in NZ. I'm from Auckland. Got a Woo on the way as well.


 
  
 D'Day (or G'Evening!) mate.
  
 I'm Wellington based.  Which Woo did you go for?  Have you purchased directly from Woo Audio or through a local distributor?


----------



## Badas

tontnz said:


> D'Day (or G'Evening!) mate.
> 
> I'm Wellington based.  Which Woo did you go for?  Have you purchased directly from Woo Audio or through a local distributor?




I ordered a WA22 in black (local dealer) to go with this:



So I can have a balanced system in SS and Tube. Going to use the Oppo as a DAC.


----------



## koiloco

bonesnv said:


> It's because people took pride in their work back then.  Now a days everyone just wants to get that dollar.


 
 Quite a generalization you got going there...


----------



## magiccabbage

Has anyone tried the LCD 2 or 3 with the added fazor? Apparently it brings the impedance up a bit - I wonder if it works well enough with the WA2?


----------



## jimdandy

I hope I'm not high jacking the thread. Started one in recommendations but no responses yet. I'm thinking about getting rid of my receiver and getting a WA5 and connecting it to my computer. I have a set of Infinity P163s and I'm going to get a subwoofer. My question is how would it sound going into the sub line level and then going out to the WA5 then into the speakers from the sub? I have sold my house to take care of my elderly mother. She has some old vinyls. I was going to get a WA6 and a Jolida but thought this might be easier to pull off. Less components. I'm saving plus I have a little money from the property coming as will. In this arrangement,if it sounds good,I could have my cake and eat it too. Thank you all ahead of time for help.


----------



## bonesnv

magiccabbage said:


> Has anyone tried the LCD 2 or 3 with the added fazor? Apparently it brings the impedance up a bit - I wonder if it works well enough with the WA2?


 
  
 I know mine works well with the WA22, can't answer for the WA2 though.  Also, they only upped the driver and nominal impedance on the LCD3, not the LCD2 to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## bonesnv

koiloco said:


> Quite a generalization you got going there...


 
  
 Was meant a little tongue in cheek instead of being taken ultra literal.  Still a fairly accurate generalization though.


----------



## koiloco

bonesnv said:


> Was meant a little tongue in cheek instead of being taken ultra literal.  Still a fairly accurate generalization though.


 

 got you!


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesnv said:


> I know mine works well with the WA22, can't answer for the WA2 though.  Also, they only upped the driver and nominal impedance on the LCD3, not the LCD2 to the best of my knowledge.


 
  They updated them all with fazor - In this review Kyle talks about the Audeze can's sounding good with the apex OTL. I am aware that the WA22 is a good match but I was wondering about the Wa2 in particular because it is also an OTL.


----------



## bonesnv

magiccabbage said:


> They updated them all with fazor - In this review Kyle talks about the Audeze can's sounding good with the apex OTL. I am aware that the WA22 is a good match but I was wondering about the Wa2 in particular because it is also an OTL.




  
 They updated them all with Fazor yes, but only the LCD3 had the drive change and impedance changes.


----------



## roskodan

@bonesnv both lcd2 and lcd3 had the driver/impedance change to 70 and 110 ohms respectively
  
 and regarding the changes check out this post http://www.head-fi.org/t/509710/audeze-lcd-2-impressions-thread/3750#post_10799025


----------



## bonesnv

Hmm did not realize the LCD2s changed as well, thought they were always 70. What were they before 50?


----------



## roskodan

yes you can check all the measurements and overview at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audeze-lcd-x-fazor-and-fresh-listen-current-lcd-2-and-lcd-3


----------



## bonesnv

Well I stand corrected then.  Everyone was to busy complaining about the fazors in general didn't notice that change.


----------



## magiccabbage

I think the impedance is 110 ohm's now. Someone should try the LCD 2 or 3 fazor with the WA2 just to see what its like


----------



## bonesnv

Send me a WA2 I will test it out


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> Send me a WA2 I will test it out


 

 How do you like your LCD-3 with the WA22 balanced connection?
  
 That is what I will do very soon. WA22 on order.
  
 However my LCD-3 is pre-fazor.


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> How do you like your LCD-3 with the WA22 balanced connection?
> 
> That is what I will do very soon. WA22 on order.
> 
> However my LCD-3 is pre-fazor.


 
  
  
 I listen to it basically every single night for an hour or two, it's my after work stress relief otherwise I would need to punch things.


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> I listen to it basically every single night for an hour or two, it's my after work stress relief otherwise I would need to punch things.


 

 When I get mine can I ask for some tube suggestions? I want to listen first and decide I want to change.


----------



## roskodan

wooaudio said:


> Regarding output impedance of the WA2, it is measured approximately 70 ohms with GE 6080 power tubes. There is a variation of 15% given different brands and models of the power tubes. On the other hand, the WA3 is about 180 ohms with GE 6080's.
> 
> Hope this is clear,
> Jack


 

 seems like the wa2 has the same (output) impedance as the lcd2f driver (70ohms resistance), so both lcd2 & lcd3 (110ohm) may be real fun with it, perhaps the real issue may be the power output specs


----------



## Badas

I took my LCD-3 (Pre Frazor) into a shop and tried on the WA2. It was great. So the new ones might even be better. The shop had a set of the new ones. I should have tried.


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> When I get mine can I ask for some tube suggestions? I want to listen first and decide I want to change.


 
  
 Sure, just shoot me a PM.  To be up front, the stock tubes are fairly abysmal but my ears are not your ears, so definitely listen first then decide.  I believe there are others with the same setup so hopefully they chime in as well here.
  
 If you don't NEED balanced, which I guess nobody REALLY needs it, then you may want to look at the WA5/LE which can get away with some of the less expensive tubes and still sing.


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> Sure, just shoot me a PM.  To be up front, the stock tubes are fairly abysmal but my ears are not your ears, so definitely listen first then decide.  I believe there are others with the same setup so hopefully they chime in as well here.
> 
> If you don't NEED balanced, which I guess nobody REALLY needs it, then you may want to look at the WA5/LE which can get away with some of the less expensive tubes and still sing.


 

 Cool.
  
 WA22 already ordered.
  
 I have the Oppo HA-1 and I like the balanced connection on that. Main reason I went WA22.
 I will use the Oppo as a DAC into the WA22. Then I can pick and choose (music depending) between SS and Tube.


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> Cool.
> 
> WA22 already ordered.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're golden then.  I would recommend going back to page, 2026ish I think or around that, for the long list of tube recommendations everyone gave me when I was getting my WA22.
  
 Hit me up when you want to go over some combinations.


----------



## musicman59

bonesnv said:


> Sure, just shoot me a PM.  To be up front, the stock tubes are fairly abysmal but my ears are not your ears, so definitely listen first then decide.  I believe there are others with the same setup so hopefully they chime in as well here.
> 
> If you don't NEED balanced, which I guess nobody REALLY needs it, then you may want to look at the WA5/LE which can get away with some of the less expensive tubes and still sing.


 
  
 When I was going to buy a Woo amplifier I had my sights in the WA22 because I was coming from a balanced SS amp and wanted to keep my system fully balanced. I went to the Chicago CanJam that year and talking to Jack he told me that the WA5 or -LE are superior amps compared to the WA22 even being single ended.
  
 I listed to the WA22 and the WA5-LE. I was able to confirm what Jack was saying and two weeks later I ordered my WA5-LE.


----------



## wongtonypr

Do the wa5/le benefit from put it on an isolation platform?
 I heard that heavy tube amps need some isolation.
 I does know speaker systems can tell the difference of isolation easily,
 but is it important in headfi systems?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

musicman59 said:


> When I was going to buy a Woo amplifier I had my sights in the WA22 because I was coming from a balanced SS amp and wanted to keep my system fully balanced. I went to the Chicago CanJam that year and talking to Jack he told me that the WA5 or -LE are superior amps compared to the WA22 even being single ended.
> 
> I listed to the WA22 and the WA5-LE. I was able to confirm what Jack was saying and two weeks later I ordered my WA5-LE.


 
  
 yup.
  
 there is no comparison the WA5 is a much better amp than the WA22. the WA22 even with the best tubes can't touch the transparency, speed, naturalness, and finesse that the WA5 has.


----------



## Badas

musicman59 said:


> When I was going to buy a Woo amplifier I had my sights in the WA22 because I was coming from a balanced SS amp and wanted to keep my system fully balanced. I went to the Chicago CanJam that year and talking to Jack he told me that the WA5 or -LE are superior amps compared to the WA22 even being single ended.
> 
> I listed to the WA22 and the WA5-LE. I was able to confirm what Jack was saying and two weeks later I ordered my WA5-LE.







dubstep girl said:


> yup.
> 
> there is no comparison the WA5 is a much better amp than the WA22. the WA22 even with the best tubes can't touch the transparency, speed, naturalness, and finesse that the WA5 has.




That's okay. I can't extend that far $$ wise anyway. I just listened to the WA2 which sounded silkier compared to the Oppo HA-1 and figured I would be happy with that. Add extra power, tube rolling and balanced from the WA22 then it should be great compared to the Oppo.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> When I was going to buy a Woo amplifier I had my sights in the WA22 because I was coming from a balanced SS amp and wanted to keep my system fully balanced. I went to the Chicago CanJam that year and talking to Jack he told me that the WA5 or -LE are superior amps compared to the WA22 even being single ended.
> 
> I listed to the WA22 and the WA5-LE. I was able to confirm what Jack was saying and two weeks later I ordered my WA5-LE.


 

 If you can stretch the budget to the full WA5 you get a very handy balanced output for driving power hungry headphones and the WA5 makes for a decent amp for undemanding floor standing speakers. The balanced output is labelled as being intended for the K1000, but it does great things with my HE6 and HD800.


----------



## Badas

ardilla said:


> I just could not help myself. Heer's the new *Woo Audio and Tea WA2 Super Edition*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Classic.


----------



## Stereolab42

Oddly enough my 6SE arrived today, but the 22 and upgraded tubes will arrive tomorrow. I'll wait until everything is here to set them up. Plan is to run them with the stock tubes for a while, then try the upgraded tubes, to get experience with both. Complicating things is I'm still in the process of rotating through DACs to find one that actually works properly, so the next few weeks will be fun.
  
 One thing to note: I did try the WA5 at the California Audio Show last weekend, and for whatever reason it didn't pull me in. Whereas the 22 I tried at the Head-Fi meet was magical. So I remain happy with my decision to stick to the mid-range of the lineup.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> Oddly enough my 6SE arrived today, but the 22 and upgraded tubes will arrive tomorrow. I'll wait until everything is here to set them up. Plan is to run them with the stock tubes for a while, then try the upgraded tubes, to get experience with both. Complicating things is I'm still in the process of rotating through DACs to find one that actually works properly, so the next few weeks will be fun.
> 
> One thing to note: I did try the WA5 at the California Audio Show last weekend, and for whatever reason it didn't pull me in. Whereas the 22 I tried at the Head-Fi meet was magical. So I remain happy with my decision to stick to the mid-range of the lineup.


 
 Congratulations on your new amps.
 Funny how you say "So I remain happy with my decision to stick to the mid-range of the lineup". IME, in most cases I find the "mid-range" products to be the bests ones!


----------



## Legi0n

Hi guys, I'm interested in upgrading my EF-5 to a WA7 to pair with a HD700 and LCD-2 (non rev). The thing is, I am somewhat not quite sold on the dac section of the amp. For those of you who has listened to the WA7, how would you rate the dac? To give you an idea of what I'm currently listening from, I have an audio-gd dac with wolfson 8741 chips. Also, does the amp section alone justify the $1000 (1400 with the psu) price tag, in your opinion?


----------



## kkcc

legi0n said:


> Hi guys, I'm interested in upgrading my EF-5 to a WA7 to pair with a HD700 and LCD-2 (non rev). The thing is, I am somewhat not quite sold on the dac section of the amp. For those of you who has listened to the WA7, how would you rate the dac? To give you an idea of what I'm currently listening from, I have an audio-gd dac with wolfson 8741 chips. Also, does the amp section alone justify the $1000 (1400 with the psu) price tag, in your opinion?




I had compared the 10.32 to the original WA7 and much prefer 10.32. I love the WA7 design and aesthetics but it's sound doesn't impress me. Haven't tried the wa7d or with the new psu so can't comment on that.

FWIW a friend of mine who listened to these along with me ended up choosing the Alo pan am+passport as he sit have desk space for the 10.32.


----------



## Badas

legi0n said:


> Hi guys, I'm interested in upgrading my EF-5 to a WA7 to pair with a HD700 and LCD-2 (non rev). The thing is, I am somewhat not quite sold on the dac section of the amp. For those of you who has listened to the WA7, how would you rate the dac? To give you an idea of what I'm currently listening from, I have an audio-gd dac with wolfson 8741 chips. Also, does the amp section alone justify the $1000 (1400 with the psu) price tag, in your opinion?




I also trialed the WA7 at home. I didn't try the DAC, I feed the Oppo HA-1 directly into the WA7. WA7 didn't impress. I felt like it was a toy and not a serious amp. Just my opinion.

The Oppo had the edge over the WA7. Oppo didn't have an advantage over the WA2 tho.


----------



## whirlwind

Anyone here have any idea what a second hand WA22 runs ?
  
 $1500-$1600 maybe ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

badas said:


> I also trialed the WA7 at home. I didn't try the DAC, I feed the Oppo HA-1 directly into the WA7. WA7 didn't impress. *I felt like it was a toy and not a serious amp. Just my opinion.*
> 
> The Oppo had the edge over the WA7. Oppo didn't have an advantage over the WA2 tho.


 
  
 +1
  
 its an alright amp, but seems like its better suited for less serious rigs and maybe for a cute little setup for the office or something
  


whirlwind said:


> Anyone here have any idea what a second hand WA22 runs ?
> 
> $1500-$1600 maybe ?


 
  
 about right, but i've seen them as low as 1400, i think 1500 is fair. obviously depends on upgrades, extra tubes, condition/age, etc.


----------



## Legi0n

I see, in that case, should I go for the WA6SE/WE2 to pair with the HD700 instead? Anyway thanks a lot for clearing some things up about the WA7 guys


----------



## whirlwind

dubstep girl said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > I also trialed the WA7 at home. I didn't try the DAC, I feed the Oppo HA-1 directly into the WA7. WA7 didn't impress. *I felt like it was a toy and not a serious amp. Just my opinion.*
> ...


 
 Thanks Dubstep Girl....that is about the way I had it figured.


----------



## Badas

legi0n said:


> I see, in that case, should I go for the WA6SE/WE2 to pair with the HD700 instead? Anyway thanks a lot for clearing some things up about the WA7 guys


 

 I presume you meant WA2.
  
 I have heard the WA2 / HD700 combo. I don't overly like the HD700 (own myself). I find it way to bright (just my taste).
  
 However I found it a lot better on the WA2.
  
 WA2 is a way better amp than WA7. Also by the time you add the WA7 tube power supply the WA2 is cheaper.


----------



## Legi0n

badas said:


> I presume you meant WA2.
> 
> I have heard the WA2 / HD700 combo. I don't overly like the HD700 (own myself). I find it way to bright (just my taste).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah yes, sorry for the typo.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you find it to pair well with the WA2? How does it compare to your oppo/HD700 combo?


----------



## Badas

legi0n said:


> Ah yes, sorry for the typo..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I found the HD700 way to bright on the Oppo. I would often cringe. Actually used very aggressive EQ to tame the treble.
  
 I then got my Audeze and all EQ was turned off. I haven't used the HD700 on the Oppo again.
  
 When I tried the WA2. The Audeze was borderline too dark (tube rolling could tame this) however silky sounding (what I want from a tube). To my surprise the HD700 also sounded silky not so dark and for the first time musical.  Not accurate but musical. I found pleasing. Treble was still high however it didn't annoy me.
  
 The other thing I considered was the WA2 power. It seemed fine. Powered my Audeze at the 2/3 volume range and was ear bleeding loud. I didn't try HD700 at high volume however I didn't think it required more power.
  
 A fairly great pairing.
  
 Be warned tho. I have a very dark sound signature. Others might not like the way I listen.


----------



## Legi0n

badas said:


> I found the HD700 way to bright on the Oppo. I would often cringe. Actually used very aggressive EQ to tame the treble.
> 
> I then got my Audeze and all EQ was turned off. I haven't used the HD700 on the Oppo again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Although I might not be as sensitive towards high treble levels as you are, I have a fairly dark sound signature as well (currently pairing an EF5 with an LCD-2 and I love it). Anyway, thanks for the info!


----------



## Stereolab42

stereolab42 said:


> Oddly enough my 6SE arrived today, but the 22 and upgraded tubes will arrive tomorrow. I'll wait until everything is here to set them up. Plan is to run them with the stock tubes for a while, then try the upgraded tubes, to get experience with both. Complicating things is I'm still in the process of rotating through DACs to find one that actually works properly, so the next few weeks will be fun.
> 
> One thing to note: I did try the WA5 at the California Audio Show last weekend, and for whatever reason it didn't pull me in. Whereas the 22 I tried at the Head-Fi meet was magical. So I remain happy with my decision to stick to the mid-range of the lineup.


 
  
 Well, the amps made it in good condition (as far as I can tell without turning them on!), along with the stock tubes, but some of the upgraded tubes are missing. I'm emailing them to send the missing items right now. Luckily I was already planning to run them on stock for a while anyways.


----------



## Stereolab42

Holy ballz. Every inch of these amps looks, feels, and sounds like a million bucks. Absolutely phenomenal job by Woo, I couldn't be happier. And this is with the stock tubes! (I don't think I'm THAT easy to please seeing as I've gone through so many different DACs in the past few months, lol.)
  
 I'll try to have some pics by the weekend.
  
 One complaint, I guess. The 22's volume knob moves in steps, instead of continuously like the 6SE, and you can sometimes hear a click if you change it while music is playing. But only sometimes. A minor complaint in the scheme of things.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> Holy ballz. Every inch of these amps looks, feels, and sounds like a million bucks. Absolutely phenomenal job by Woo, I couldn't be happier. And this is with the stock tubes! (I don't think I'm THAT easy to please seeing as I've gone through so many different DACs in the past few months, lol.)
> 
> I'll try to have some pics by the weekend.
> 
> One minor complaint, I guess. I prefer the 6SE's volume knob to the 22's... it's larger and moves continuously instead of in steps. Again, a very MINOR complaint, and surely a point of personal preference.


 
  
 Thank you for the kind words.  We're glad you're happy.    Look forward to seeing some pics.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Holy ballz. Every inch of these amps looks, feels, and sounds like a million bucks. Absolutely phenomenal job by Woo, I couldn't be happier. And this is with the stock tubes! (I don't think I'm THAT easy to please seeing as I've gone through so many different DACs in the past few months, lol.)
> 
> I'll try to have some pics by the weekend.
> 
> One complaint, I guess. The 22's volume knob moves in steps, instead of continuously like the 6SE, and you can sometimes hear a click if you change it while music is playing. But only sometimes. A minor complaint in the scheme of things.


 
  
 If you like the WA22, try the WA5 with upgraded tubes driving a modded HE6. HeadFi nirvana


----------



## Stereolab42

Regarding balanced vs unbalanced in on the WA22... I compared them with output from the same DAC. Volumes were almost equal, only one click apart on the knob, so the phase splitter Jack mentioned does appear to be present. As for SQ, it's hard to tell, but I think balanced does have the edge. If you can't afford or don't want to buy a DAC with balanced output, you may be best with the 6SE.


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> you like the WA22, try the WA5 with upgraded tubes driving a modded HE6. HeadFi nirvana


 




 - HiFiMAN HE-6 Owner (Re-cabled; Hard-wired; Modded)


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> - HiFiMAN HE-6 Owner (Re-cabled; Hard-wired; Modded)


 
  
 When I first started down the road with the HE6 I couldn't understand why folks were wanting to wire it up to speaker amps and mod it and other such odd things. I was quite happy with it driven by my Taurus - it was nice, but nothing all that special. Then I got my WA5 and plugged my modded HE6 into the K1000 socket. Wow. Now I get it - this thing needs serious juice to shine - and how it shines. Wonderful headphone.


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> When I first started down the road with the HE6 I couldn't understand why folks were wanting to wire it up to speaker amps and mod it and other such odd things. I was quite happy with it driven by my Taurus - it was nice, but nothing all that special. Then I got my WA5 and plugged my modded HE6 into the K1000 socket. Wow. Now I get it - this thing needs serious juice to shine - and how it shines. Wonderful headphone.


 





 K1000 Output: that's right, baby! Last summer, Jack and I were getting my WA5 300B monos _spec'd. _My Woo, should I resume completion of this project, will have the HE-6 leashed up to separate L/R K1000 Outputs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I moved in another direction entirely last summer, but may resume the project at a date TBA.


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> K1000 Output: that's right, baby! Last summer, Jack and I were getting my WA5 300B monos _spec'd. _My Woo, should I resume completion of this project, will have the HE-6 leashed up to separate L/R K1000 Outputs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The WA5 with upgraded tubes is a great headphone experience. I love it with my HD800 (and LCD-X), but what it does with the HE6 is something else again. I had no idea what this headphone could do until I plugged it into that K1000 socket.
  
 Ear-speakers - exactly what the HE6 is.


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> The WA5 with upgraded tubes is a great headphone experience. I love it with my HD800 (and LCD-X), but what it does with the HE6 is something else again. I had no idea what this headphone could do until I plugged it into that K1000 socket.
> 
> Ear-speakers - exactly what the HE6 is.


 
 Some of us already had the benefit of owning a few capable speaker amps of quality to throw at the cans; still have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




hair. The audio landscape is littered with those who gave up!
  
 Still waiting to hear a WA5/HE-6 pairing. Perhaps, autumn...


----------



## kkcc

stereolab42 said:


> One complaint, I guess. The 22's volume knob moves in steps, instead of continuously like the 6SE, and you can sometimes hear a click if you change it while music is playing. But only sometimes. A minor complaint in the scheme of things.




Would it make you happier to know that stepped attenuator is generally regarded as better than POTs for more transparent SQ and better low level volume L/R channel matching. On GSX2 this is an $200 optional upgrade. 

Personally I find the wa22's steps are fine enough for volume adjustment. If you find steps too wide, maybe you can adjust the DAC lineout volume so you can use more of the wa22's adjustment range.


----------



## punit

stereolab42 said:


> One complaint, I guess. The 22's volume knob moves in steps, instead of continuously like the 6SE, and you can sometimes hear a click if you change it while music is playing. But only sometimes. A minor complaint in the scheme of things.


 
 The WA22 uses a DACT CT2 stepped attenuator for volume control. It's a better quality one than the WA6 SE which uses  an Alps potentiometer (also good but not the same level as DACT CT2).
  
 Please see below a comparison between Alps & Dact.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/213420/dact-stepped-attenuator-vs-alps-blue-velvet-my-observations


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> stereolab42 said:
> 
> 
> > One complaint, I guess. The 22's volume knob moves in steps, instead of continuously like the 6SE, and you can sometimes hear a click if you change it while music is playing. But only sometimes. A minor complaint in the scheme of things.
> ...


 
 Thanks for that read, punit.
  
 The WA22 seems to have *all* of the features that I am looking for for my HD800.......it has definitly become the front runner in my search for a new amp


----------



## lojay

tonynewman said:


> If you can stretch the budget to the full WA5 you get a very handy balanced output for driving power hungry headphones and the WA5 makes for a decent amp for undemanding floor standing speakers. The balanced output is labelled as being intended for the K1000, but it does great things with my HE6 and HD800.


 
  
 Do you find the HD800 noisy through the WA5 K1K output? I certainly do..


----------



## lojay

tonynewman said:


> The WA5 with upgraded tubes is a great headphone experience. I love it with my HD800 (and LCD-X), but what it does with the HE6 is something else again. I had no idea what this headphone could do until I plugged it into that K1000 socket.
> 
> Ear-speakers - exactly what the HE6 is.


 
  
 I completely agree. It's an interesting alternative to the WA5 + SR009. 
  
 HE-6 + WA5 is simply explosive. Blown away every time.
  
 I don't really enjoy it with my HD800 though.
  
 By the way, I am probably going to get rid of the Sophia RP300B after getting NOS AVVT AV32B. When is this going to end..


----------



## Silent One

I've heard some really good things for a very long time about the storied NOS AVVT...congrats!


----------



## Justin_Time

kkcc said:


> Would it make you happier to know that stepped attenuator is generally regarded as better than POTs for more transparent SQ and better low level volume L/R channel matching. On GSX2 this is an $200 optional upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


In total agreement.


----------



## Stereolab42

kkcc said:


> Would it make you happier to know that stepped attenuator is generally regarded as better than POTs for more transparent SQ and better low level volume L/R channel matching. On GSX2 this is an $200 optional upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


punit said:


> The WA22 uses a DACT CT2 stepped attenuator for volume control. It's a better quality one than the WA6 SE which uses  an Alps potentiometer (also good but not the same level as DACT CT2).
> 
> Please see below a comparison between Alps & Dact.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/213420/dact-stepped-attenuator-vs-alps-blue-velvet-my-observations


 
  
 Now that's interesting, I have no problems with the steps being not fine enough, on low gain with my LCD-XC's (and with the standard 4v balanced in) there's plenty of room to maneuver. But I'm a habitual knob-twiddler and just prefer them to be absolutely smooth and silent. I'm sure I'll get used to it though.


----------



## wongtonypr

Are there any difference by using the k1000 output or high gain output driving the hd800?
 Although i just have a new wa5-le, but i am quite interested in this question.
 The wa5-le sounds good on the hd800 after changing tubes, fuse and cabes.. maybe will get a max wa5 next year..


----------



## Badas

kkcc said:


> Would it make you happier to know that stepped attenuator is generally regarded as better than POTs for more transparent SQ and better low level volume L/R channel matching. On GSX2 this is an $200 optional upgrade.
> 
> Personally I find the wa22's steps are fine enough for volume adjustment. If you find steps too wide, maybe you can adjust the DAC lineout volume so you can use more of the wa22's adjustment range.




You kinda touched on a subject I was going to ask latter. 

I have the WA22 on the way. I will be feeding it from the Oppo HA-1 DAC. 

When I listen I sit a long way from the volume controls. Part of the reason for the Oppo was the remote volume.

I can technically set the WA22 on a pre-set volume and control the volume input from the Oppo. That way I can still have remote volume control.

Is there anything wrong with doing that?


----------



## kazsud

tonynewman said:


> The WA5 with upgraded tubes is a great headphone experience. I love it with my HD800 (and LCD-X), but what it does with the HE6 is something else again. I had no idea what this headphone could do until I plugged it into that K1000 socket.
> Ear-speakers - exactly what the HE6 is.




+1


----------



## TonyNewman

lojay said:


> Do you find the HD800 noisy through the WA5 K1K output? I certainly do..


 
  
 I get a low level hum that is noticeable in quiet passages in the music. I only hook up the HD800 to the K1000 output for fun - the sound is better from the SE output set to 'High'.


----------



## TonyNewman

lojay said:


> By the way, I am probably going to get rid of the Sophia RP300B after getting NOS AVVT AV32B. When is this going to end..


 
  
 I'm about to upgrade _*to *_the SERP 300Bs from the SEP 300Bs. I might have to stop there - swapping out high end 300B tubes does horrible things to my budget


----------



## TonyNewman

wongtonypr said:


> Are there any difference by using the k1000 output or high gain output driving the hd800?
> Although i just have a new wa5-le, but i am quite interested in this question.
> The wa5-le sounds good on the hd800 after changing tubes, fuse and cabes.. maybe will get a max wa5 next year..


 

 HD800 is better driven from the high gain SE socket - I plug it into the K1000 output to experiment, but it probably isn't a good idea.
  
 The K1000 socket is ideal for the HE6. From what I understand, the only differences between the WA5 and WA5LE are the K1000 socket and the speaker outs. If you don't want to drive speakers, or a HE6, there is probably no need to go from the WA5LE to the WA5. Others on the forum will know more about this than I do.


----------



## lojay

tonynewman said:


> I'm about to upgrade _*to*_ the SERP 300Bs from the SEP 300Bs. I might have to stop there - swapping out high end 300B tubes does horrible things to my budget :confused_face:




I think you will find a substantial improvement there. I find the RPs very good in many areas, bass, soundstage, lush 300b midrange, etc. It's just that once you compare it with the AVVT, you will know that the RP is noticeably coloured and that something doesn't really sound right. I never felt that way with the RP until I had the AVVT.


----------



## Silent One

Your AVVT's getting Woo'ed...throw up some pix, please.


----------



## jc9394

Got a reminder at KIX to buy a WA5 soon.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> Got a reminder at KIX to buy a WA5 soon.


 
 Yum-o!


----------



## Stereolab42

This WA22 is dangerous. Anyone who said tube amps are muddy only listened to crappy tube amps. This guy ruthlessly exposes bad recordings, like a medieval torturer rooting out heresy. I wouldn't have it any other way!


----------



## TontNZ

lojay said:


> _"It's just that once you compare it with the AVVT, you will know that the RP is noticeably coloured and that something doesn't really sound right. I never felt that way with the RP until I had the AVVT."_


 
 G"Day lojay
  
 I see in your _sig_ that you refer to your AVVT's as AV32B's.  Being no expert on AVVT's is this a  different tube to their 32B-SL?
  
 Cheers - Peter


----------



## lojay

tontnz said:


> G"Day lojay
> 
> I see in your _sig_ that you refer to your AVVT's as AV32B's.  Being no expert on AVVT's is this a  different tube to their 32B-SL?
> 
> Cheers - Peter


 
  


silent one said:


> Your AVVT's getting Woo'ed...throw up some pix, please.


 
  
 Yes the AV32B-SL. A picture is worth more than a thousand words:


----------



## TontNZ

lojay said:


> Yes the AV32B-SL. A picture is worth more than a thousand words:
> 
> 
> Sorry I found the answer confusing.  So your AVVT AV32B is a 32B-SL?  The SL stands for Super Linear and that's what's on the base of the tube in the photograph.


----------



## lojay

The tubes you are talking about are the ones I have, and are officially called the AVVT AV 32B-SL (Super Linear). See http://www.elektronenroehren.de/avvt/datashts/av32b.htm


----------



## wongtonypr

I've also tried the he-6 with the official hifiman amp In a locol audio shop yesterday, and I found it is so FUN and I like it! 
Although I like it's sound signature,I don't think the amp has drove it well. I always want to find a fun headphone to opposite the neutral hd800.
How's the he6 compair with hd800 in terms of sound stage, image and young female vocal on wa5 and wa5le?


----------



## lojay

wongtonypr said:


> I've also tried the he-6 with the official hifiman amp In a locol audio shop yesterday, and I found it is so FUN and I like it!
> Although I like it's sound signature,I don't think the amp has drove it well. I always want to find a fun headphone to opposite the neutral hd800.
> How's the he6 compair with hd800 in terms of sound stage, image and young female vocal on wa5 and wa5le?


 
  
 I see that you have the WA5-LE. The HE-6 is not going to be properly driven by that amp. You need the WA5 proper and use the K1K output to realise its potential. 
  
 Assuming you get your hands on a WA5 (preferably) with the best NOS tubes, my views as follows might have some relevance to you:
  
 1. I never enjoyed HD800 on the WA5 with vocals _unless_ the recording is top notch, like Cassandra Wilson's New Moon Daughter and Melody Gardot's One Only Thrill. I think you need to mod it / change the cables to make it tolerable with most non-hifi grade female vocals (and some hifi vocals!). But tolerable is not good enough when so much money is invested. So IMHO, vocals are much better on the HE6 + WA5 than the HD800 + WA5 on most music, especially non-hifi recording music. No contest here.
  
 2. The soundstage of HD800 is more impressive than the HE6. But the HE6 when modded with the grill mod and the Vegan pads has a wide soundstage, albeit not as wide as the HD800, it images very precisely and is good enough. In fact I think it does better than the SR-009 on the WA5 in this regard.
  
 3. The HE-6 is the fun headphone. The most impressive thing about the HE6 is its dynamic speaker like impact and natural tonality with vocals and instruments. And it has more impactful bass compared to the HD800 though when properly driven the HD800's bass is very good too.
  
4. The Hifiman amp you tried (I think the EF-6, which I've tried at probably the same local hifi store you have) is a class, if not a few classes, below the WA5. The only thing it does better than the WA5 is the bass quantity, as expected, I suppose that's because it is a SS amp and not a tube amp. WA5 does everything better, a lot better.
  
5. I used to hold the view that the HD800 can make 1% of the music collection I have (I have a very wide ranging eclectic one) sing beautifully, while the HE6 can make 90% of my music sound very nice but not as good as the HD800 at its best. I have reconsidered this view after modding the HE6 and think that HE6 is the better headphone overall, and can make much of my music sound magical. Your mileage may vary of course. I suppose if you listen to a lot of orchestral classical music where the soundstage improves the experience significantly, the HD800 is preferable. But if that be the case, WA5 may not be the best amp for you because its soundstage is more restricted driving the HD800 than some other amps I've heard such as the Rudistor 030B and what others say about Eddie Current BA/ 4-45.


----------



## wongtonypr

Thx for your help.
  
 I love Symphony, guitar, piano,violin and original sound tracks which the hd800 sounds great on them.
 But when i switch to some extremely bad recorded anime music, the hd800 sounds sucks.
  
 I really want to get a headphone which can let me to listen those bad,bad recordings, especially not harsh to recording of female vocal's peak.
 But do the he6 needs a different combination of  sources, tubes and cables compare with the hd800?
  
 The wa5 max is quite expensive, but its sound quality compare with a standard one?
 Will I benefit more if i ask for better internal wiring, resistors and sockets?
 I bought the standard wa5-le mainly because I can save some bucks for cables and tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

lojay said:


> .... I have reconsidered this view after modding the HE6 and think that HE6 is the better headphone overall, and can make much of my music sound magical...


 
  
 +1. My HD800 gets very little use on the WA5 vs my modded HE6. Remove the grills, install the fuzzor, add some vegan Audeze pads and enjoy


----------



## lojay

wongtonypr said:


> Thx for your help.
> 
> I love Symphony, guitar, piano,violin and original sound tracks which the hd800 sounds great on them.
> But when i switch to some extremely bad recorded anime music, the hd800 sounds sucks.
> ...


 
  
 I use the standard WA5. It sounds spectacular. Saving money to buy tubes is the way to go. But the point is you need speaker and K1K output capability, ie you need to buy the WA5 (standard). It is not the same thing as WA5 max (which my understanding is it includes cap and other internal upgrades).
  
 The HE6 is slightly bright but it is more forgiving of bad recordings. It will benefit from inexpensive mods. The Audeze Vegan Pads will darken the sound and the removal of the grills and cotton is for free! Have not tried the Fuzor mod yet. The cable that comes with stock is copper, which also makes the HE6 more forgiving. Avoid silver cables if you want to use the HE-6 to listen to bad recordings.


----------



## kkcc

badas said:


> I can technically set the WA22 on a pre-set volume and control the volume input from the Oppo. That way I can still have remote volume control.
> 
> Is there anything wrong with doing that?




I haven't really A/B controlling volume from the DAC out of the nfb28 vs from the WA22. From experience tho I don't find much difference.


----------



## Badas

kkcc said:


> I haven't really A/B controlling volume from the DAC out of the nfb28 vs from the WA22. From experience tho I don't find much difference.




Thanks. I will give it a real test once the WA22 arrives.


----------



## wongtonypr

The reason I would like to buy a max one is that I can also improving my hd800 at the same time..
 Also, can the speaker out of the wa5 drive high efficient speakers nicely, if I put the speakers on my bedroom desk in a ultra small area(3"X3")?


----------



## TontNZ

lojay said:


> The tubes you are talking about are the ones I have, and are officially called the AVVT AV 32B-SL (Super Linear). See http://www.elektronenroehren.de/avvt/datashts/av32b.htm


 
 G'Day lojay
  
 Thank you for the clarification


----------



## lojay

wongtonypr said:


> The reason I would like to buy a max one is that I can also improving my hd800 at the same time..
> Also, can the speaker out of the wa5 drive high efficient speakers nicely, if I put the speakers on my bedroom desk in a ultra small area(3"X3")?




I think the WA5 drives high efficiency speakers loud enough to fill up an even larger room. I have been able to fill the office space of 150 sq ft I have with a pair of Tannoy Autograph Minis (88dB) with ease, but bass was weak perhaps as it is the nature of the Tannoys and my shi*ty stock tubes.The recommended speaker efficiency is 90 dB +

For the price you may want to consider Eddie Current products such as 4-45 and 2A3 MKIV as well. But WA5 is much more commercially available in HK.

The most expensive part re WA5 is the tubes. 



tontnz said:


> G'Day lojay
> 
> Thank you for the clarification




No worries!


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> Thanks. I will give it a real test once the WA22 arrives.


 
  
 In general, you want to to push any volume control as far down the chain as possible, for best SQ. Typically, you want your DAC outputting standard maximum line-level voltage to your (pre-)amp (that is, 2V unbalanced or 4V balanced). If you attenuate the volume on your DAC, you need to then increase the gain on your amp, which increases the noise floor and reduces headroom. However, a little bit of attenuation in the DAC to fine-tune how you want the volume control to behave on your amp should be fine. For example, the WA22 and 6SE have a low noise floor and massive output power, so you have a good deal of room to play with.


----------



## Stereolab42

Unboxing, etc. (Yes, I know the family photo of the stock and upgrade tubes only shows 13 instead of 16... as I mentioned some of the upgrade tubes and adapters were missing in the initial shipment, but have now been shipped.)


----------



## Stereolab42

Photos of the amps in their final locations. Dubstep Girl is probably having a heart attack right now, noticing that somebody is still using the stock Shuguang 274Bs on Woos (the one in the 6LE actually rings like a telephone, it may not be entirely healthy), but the overall SQ is still killer. Upgrade tubes will be in within a week.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stereolab42 said:


> Photos of the amps in their final locations. Dubstep Girl is probably having a heart attack right now, noticing that somebody is still using the stock Shuguang 274Bs on Woos (the one in the 6LE actually rings like a telephone, it may not be entirely healthy), but the overall SQ is still killer. Upgrade tubes will be in within a week.


----------



## bbophead

@Stereolab42 
  
 Extremely jelly.


----------



## bpcans

stereolab42 said:


> Photos of the amps in their final locations. Dubstep Girl is probably having a heart attack right now, noticing that somebody is still using the stock Shuguang 274Bs on Woos (the one in the 6LE actually rings like a telephone, it may not be entirely healthy), but the overall SQ is still killer. Upgrade tubes will be in within a week.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Sir, that black Woo amp is one of the coolest looking pieces of audio kit I've ever seen. Congratulations and happy listening.


----------



## Silent One

Easy DG...we all start somewhere.


----------



## Stereolab42

I am making a shopping list of several tubes to try after I play with the stock tubes and then the upgraded Woo tubes for a while. This is gonna be fun!


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> In general, you want to to push any volume control as far down the chain as possible, for best SQ. Typically, you want your DAC outputting standard maximum line-level voltage to your (pre-)amp (that is, 2V unbalanced or 4V balanced). If you attenuate the volume on your DAC, you need to then increase the gain on your amp, which increases the noise floor and reduces headroom. However, a little bit of attenuation in the DAC to fine-tune how you want the volume control to behave on your amp should be fine. For example, the WA22 and 6SE have a low noise floor and massive output power, so you have a good deal of room to play with.




Thanks for the great explanation.




stereolab42 said:


> Photos of the amps in their final locations. Dubstep Girl is probably having a heart attack right now, noticing that somebody is still using the stock Shuguang 274Bs on Woos (the one in the 6LE actually rings like a telephone, it may not be entirely healthy), but the overall SQ is still killer. Upgrade tubes will be in within a week.




You are making me drool. I can't wait for my WA22. Stock or rolled. I don't care at this stage.


----------



## TontNZ

lojay said:


> Yes the AV32B-SL. A picture is worth more than a thousand words:
> 
> 
> I've been looking for a NOS pair of these for a while and I've just tracked down a pair and purchased them
> ...


----------



## Silent One

That's some beautiful looking glass!


----------



## Justin_Time

Streolab42,
  
 Great toys!
  
 Don't worry about the missing stock tubes.  You'll never miss them once you've heard the upgraded tubes/
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

orcin said:


> I'm in with a WA6SE stock currently using the Sophia Princess rectifier and NOS Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7 power tubes.
> 
> Headphones:
> high impedance jack = HD600's with Moon Audio Blue Dragon v3
> ...


 
  
 I have the same Sony CDP!  The WDS-1 great improves CD playback on this player.


----------



## Stereolab42

Tube Depot offers these options on driver tubes, which of them is recommended:
  
Balanced Triodes (add $2.00 each)
 High Gain (add $2.00 each)
 Low Noise & Microphonics (add $4.00 each)
 Matching (up to 5 tubes) (add $2.00 each)
  
 When buying pairs I assume "Matching" is absolutely desired. "Low Noise", sure. Unsure about the other two.


----------



## roskodan

silversurfer616 said:


> Thanks for quoting my old post and yes, the Lorenz is a good tube and I alternated it with the Sophia.
> But as it is a very old post I have sold the Woo in the meantime and have a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball now.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEL-Lorenz-GZ32-5V4G-CV593-German-NOS-high-quality-rectifier-MILspec-tubes-/201072593867?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ed0dc4bcb
  
 did yours also have 4 pins? does it needs an adapter for the wa6-se?


----------



## TonyNewman

Something I wanted to share with other woo-ites. I have been tube rolling with some new production 300Bs and 6SN7s in my WA5. One thing to be careful with is the fat bottle 6SN7s from Shuguang and PSVANE. These beasties push the available space to the limit. Picture below shows the PSVANE CV181s (really 6SN7s) in my WA5. The tubes are pressed right up against the SERPs - and I cannot fully seat the SERPs. They are very, very close to fully seated, so I'm not bothered, but other Woo owners might have a problem with the tight fit and tubes pressing against each other.
  
 Picture says it better than I can:
  

  
 The Sophia 6SN7s are smaller and don't touch unless the 300B is off-centre (as one of my mesh SEPs was).
  
 If the 6SN7 sockets were placed slightly forward of where the are in the WA5 this wouldn't happen, but I'm guessing monster sized 6SN7s weren't very common back when the WA5 was designed.
  
 Anyway, SQ appears to be unaffected. The SERPs + PSVANE TIIs sound excellent (burn in has just started today - and they already sound great). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EDIT - just found some 300B socket extenders on EBay. These will raise the 300B tubes and fix the issue. I had no clue such things existed. Paint me stupid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For anyone interested in 300B tube extenders the link is given below.
  
Link


----------



## musicman59

it seem like the SERP tubes are fatter at the bottom then the EML and EAT that I have. My Mullard ECC32 and the CV181Z that I used to own were tight like that but the 4 tubes were able to sit properly in the sockets.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> it seem like the SERP tubes are fatter at the bottom then the EML and EAT that I have. My Mullard ECC32 and the CV181Z that I used to own were tight like that but the 4 tubes were able to sit properly in the sockets.


 

 The SEP 300Bs use the same glass envelope as the SERPs - as do the SEP 274Bs - big fat person things.
  
 New production audio tubes seem to be reversing the miniaturisation trend - getting bigger and bigger...
  
 Can't argue with the SERP sound though - noticeable step up from the SEP 300Bs.


----------



## Badas

I have just read 1054 pages. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Started at page 1000.
  
 It took me a week. I mainly just looked at the really cool photos. Damn well done some of you. There is some amazing pics.
  
 When I get my Woo I don't think I will even bother to take a picture. It will look rubbish compared to your shots.
  
 Also picked up on some tube comments. I will ask for some help in that department once I get rolling (pun intended). It looks like my wallet is still going to continue to get a beating. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks all for your efforts.


----------



## fhuang

tonynewman said:


> Something I wanted to share with other woo-ites. I have been tube rolling with some new production 300Bs and 6SN7s in my WA5. One thing to be careful with is the fat bottle 6SN7s from Shuguang and PSVANE. These beasties push the available space to the limit. Picture below shows the PSVANE CV181s (really 6SN7s) in my WA5. The tubes are pressed right up against the SERPs - and I cannot fully seat the SERPs. They are very, very close to fully seated, so I'm not bothered, but other Woo owners might have a problem with the tight fit and tubes pressing against each other.
> 
> Picture says it better than I can:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 thanks for the info/link.  i didn't know socket extenders exist.  anybody has any experience with those?  i have some psvane 6sn7 and always wonder how they would sound with kr 300 balloon


----------



## Stereolab42

Can somebody explain to a photography moron how to take pictures of tube amps that emphasize the glow in the tubes? I have a tripod and a decent digital camera, but every attempt to use "low-light" mode or no-flash mode results in a scene that's way too dark without much tube glow. What's the trick?


----------



## kkcc

stereolab42 said:


> Can somebody explain to a photography moron how to take pictures of tube amps that emphasize the glow in the tubes? I have a tripod and a decent digital camera, but every attempt to use "low-light" mode or no-flash mode results in a scene that's way too dark without much tube glow. What's the trick?




the tube glow would anyway be too dim compared to any environmental light or strobes so the "trick" won't be in the taking but in the shopping. Just overlay your glowing in the dark photo on top of the photo of the amp with your desired lighting and unmask only the tube glow....


----------



## Silent One

stereolab42 said:


> Can somebody explain to a photography moron how to take pictures of tube amps that emphasize the glow in the tubes? I have a tripod and a decent digital camera, but every attempt to use "low-light" mode or no-flash mode results in a scene that's way too dark without much tube glow. What's the trick?


 
 Is your cam a dslr with "Manual" control? If so, you could shoot in _long exposure_ mode (bulb) and it would bring out the dimly lit glow in the glass.


----------



## Stereolab42

silent one said:


> Is your cam a dslr with "Manual" control? If so, you could shoot in _long exposure_ mode (bulb) and it would bring out the dimly lit glow in the glass.


 
  
 Not a dslr, one of those $300 pocket-sized ones. I'm guessing it's not going to do the job and I need to spend more. Head-Fi strikes again!


----------



## Silent One

stereolab42 said:


> Not a dslr, one of those $300 pocket-sized ones. I'm guessing it's not going to do the job and I need to spend more. Head-Fi strikes again!


 
 Do you by chance have a Canon Point & Shoot camera? I have hyped-up software on an SD card for mine and it mimics a few features of dlsr's but doesn't overwrite the camera's own software. Though, I do have a Nikon dlsr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Taking longer exposures than normally possible with a P&S is one of the features I enjoy most with the lil' Canon.


----------



## TonyNewman

WA5 owners - anyone else out there using their WA5 as a speaker amp (as well as headphone amp) and loving it?
  
 Curious if others are finding the WA5 as good a speaker amp as I am. I have modestly spec'ed floor standers (8 Ohm, 90 dB) and the WA5 drives them easily. The sound is excellent, even though the speakers themselves are quite ordinary (my SERP 300Bs cost more than the floor standers). I will be doing a speaker upgrade later in the year.
  
 When I made the plunge into the WA5 from the WA6, it was mainly with a view to using it with a modded HE6 via K1000 8W output. I was also hoping that it would drive my floor standers, as my existing amp was a bit crap, but that would be a bonus. Now I am finding that it does both very, very well.


----------



## Silent One

This is great to hear, TonyNewman!


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> This is great to hear, TonyNewman!


 
  
 I am thinking of upgrading to a set of smallish sized speakers with slightly higher sensitivity (91dB) - to be absolutely certain that the WA5 can drive them.
  
 Looking at a pair of Brodmann Festival FS - they seem to give a really good result for a modest outlay that is within my budget. They even have the PartTimeAudiophile stamp of approval: Link




  
 The WA5 produces such a rich and wonderful sound I want to make full use of it for headphone + speaker listening bliss.
  
 Are there other WA5 folks out there using their amps for driving speakers? Enquiring minds want to know


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> I am thinking of upgrading to a set of smallish sized speakers with slightly higher sensitivity (91dB) - to be absolutely certain that the WA5 can drive them.
> 
> Looking at a pair of Brodmann Festival FS - they seem to give a really good result for a modest outlay that is within my budget. They even have the PartTimeAudiophile stamp of approval: Link
> 
> ...


 
 As mentioned last week and prolly several moons prior 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I may yet return to drafting a pair of WA5 monos. Currently have a pair of KEF floor standers @ 91db sensitivity (6 Ohms). Almost certain it'll do double duty for me inside the room.


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> As mentioned last week and prolly several moons prior
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Please excuse my ignorance - that would be 2 x WA5 - one to drive each channel?
  
 Is a single WA5 insufficient to drive the KEFs - that would surprise me based on the specs (6 Ohm / 91dB).


----------



## jc9394

stereolab42 said:


> Can somebody explain to a photography moron how to take pictures of tube amps that emphasize the glow in the tubes? I have a tripod and a decent digital camera, but every attempt to use "low-light" mode or no-flash mode results in a scene that's way too dark without much tube glow. What's the trick?


 
  
  


silent one said:


> Is your cam a dslr with "Manual" control? If so, you could shoot in _long exposure_ mode (bulb) and it would bring out the dimly lit glow in the glass.


 
  
  
 Like SO said use manual mode, mode P&S over $200 have that feature.  Usually set aperture 8 and speed to 5 seconds will do but keep on trying with different combo.  I can take tube glows with my Sony P&S, check out my pics in my signature.  None are photoshopped.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> I am thinking of upgrading to a set of smallish sized speakers with slightly higher sensitivity (91dB) - to be absolutely certain that the WA5 can drive them.
> 
> Looking at a pair of Brodmann Festival FS - they seem to give a really good result for a modest outlay that is within my budget. They even have the PartTimeAudiophile stamp of approval: Link
> 
> ...


 
 You should look into a pair of Klipsch Heritage speakers. I personally go with the Cornwall II or III first if not then the Chorus and then the Forte. All of them are 8 ohms and over 100 db spl. They sound great with tubes and those 3 models are the more balanced in sound from the heritage line to my ears.


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> *(1)* Please excuse my ignorance - that would be 2 x WA5 - one to drive each channel?
> 
> *(2)* Is a single WA5 insufficient to drive the KEFs - that would surprise me based on the specs (6 Ohm / 91dB).


 
 (1) Yes.
  
 (2) My mono blocks would be custom for the HE-6. And would simply use custom pigtails for the KEFs off the same K1000 taps.


----------



## Stereolab42

silent one said:


> As mentioned last week and prolly several moons prior
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Two WA5s? If you're gonna go that route you may as well upgrade to the WA234s, and I'd think you'd be the first owner on Head-Fi. And you could post sexy pictures and everything. Come on, take one for the team!


----------



## Silent One

stereolab42 said:


> Two WA5s? If you're gonna go that route you may as well upgrade to the WA234s, and I'd think you'd be the first owner on Head-Fi. And you could post sexy pictures and everything. Come on, take one for the team!


 
 Nah, I originally consulted with Jack Wu over the WA234. Not only would I have been among the very first owners but the only one in all Black
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




cladding & Black trim. However, the extra $$$ for built-in flexibility neither served or moved me. I went with Shindo Laboratory F2a monaural amps instead.
  
 Also, Woo's 300B monos remain a 2 chassis affair, not 4, and only cost a few dollars more. But my secret sauce (custom config) adds more dollars to the project.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> You should look into a pair of Klipsch Heritage speakers. I personally go with the Cornwall II or III first if not then the Chorus and then the Forte. All of them are 8 ohms and over 100 db spl. They sound great with tubes and those 3 models are the more balanced in sound from the heritage line to my ears.


 
  
 Thank you - I'll check that out


----------



## longbowbbs

tonynewman said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > You should look into a pair of Klipsch Heritage speakers. I personally go with the Cornwall II or III first if not then the Chorus and then the Forte. All of them are 8 ohms and over 100 db spl. They sound great with tubes and those 3 models are the more balanced in sound from the heritage line to my ears.
> ...


 
 Another great option are the Decware DM945's. They are designed to work with Tubes and run 94db. Awesome imaging and soundstage from a stand mount speaker using an 8" woofer so they run to 45hz.


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> (1) Yes.
> 
> (2) My mono blocks would be custom for the HE-6. And would simply use custom pigtails for the KEFs off the same K1000 taps.


 
  
 Ultra hardcore HeadFi. Colour me impressed (and slightly jealous)


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> Ultra hardcore HeadFi. Colour me impressed (and slightly jealous)


 
 If it ain't wicked, why bother?


----------



## Stereolab42

Well, I now have all my Woo upgrade tubes, as well as a bunch I bought from non-Woo sources (tubedepot.com, eBay, etc.), and I'm having way too much fun rolling. Some annoyance at having to return noisy tubes including, unfortunately, one of the Woo Sylvania 6SN7GTs. Other noise below the bothersome threshold I'm taking in stride as part of the charm of a tube amp. (If I want sterile perfection I have solid-state headphone jacks with easy reach.)
  
 For the most part, SQ differences between tubes are less than I expect based on the price differences. Like some others I find it counter-intuitive that the tube most removed from the final signal -- the rectifier -- seems to have the most effect on SQ. The Sophia Princess is incredibly detailed and revealing (great for rock), while an RCA from 1943 is meatier and warmer (great for organic EDM -- who said tube amps lack bass? Ridiculous.).
  
 I'm not going to comment more on individual tubes just yet. I have socket savers coming along with more tubes, and I have a lot more listening to do. But here are two pictures.
  

  
 Sophia Princess 274B, Tronix 6EM7 (Woo upgrades).
  

  
  
 Tung-Sol 6080 (Woo upgrade), brown-base JAN Sylvania 6SN7, RCA 5U4G from 1943.


----------



## TonyNewman

Nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I found the driver tubes supplied by Woo underwhelming (YMMV). There are better deals to be done out there for both NOS and new production driver tubes. The teflon adapters, however, are very nice.
  
 New production tubes can cop a lot of flack here at HeadFi and elsewhere, but I am having a lot of fun tube rolling with them and getting some very good results.


----------



## MickeyVee

Pretty much agree with you here but with the WA6 (non-SE)
 Love the SP 274B and for me, best paired with either the stock Westinghouse 6DR7 but am now enjoying it with JAN Sylvania 6SN7 WGTA with the Woo adaptors.
 Tube compliment in your pics looks exactly what I have in my WA6 
  
 Quote:


stereolab42 said:


> For the most part, SQ differences between tubes are less than I expect based on the price differences. Like some others I find it counter-intuitive that the tube most removed from the final signal -- the rectifier -- seems to have the most effect on SQ.


 
  
  
 Actually, out of 4 sets of 6DE7 (or comparable tubes), I have, I found the stock ones the best so I went the Woo stock 6SN7 adaptor/tube set.  Not impressed until I got some Sylvania 6SN7's.
  


tonynewman said:


> I found the driver tubes supplied by Woo underwhelming (YMMV). There are better deals to be done out there for both NOS and new production driver tubes. The teflon adapters, however, are very nice.


----------



## Stereolab42

Is it possible for choice of output tubes to drastically affect how hot the WA22 runs?


----------



## bonesnv

stereolab42 said:


> Is it possible for choice of output tubes to drastically affect how hot the WA22 runs?


 
  
 Depends on your definition of drastic.  Are the transformers getting to hot to touch?  If so, that would be a concern.


----------



## Stereolab42

bonesnv said:


> Depends on your definition of drastic.  Are the transformers getting to hot to touch?  If so, that would be a concern.


 
  
 Was playing around with two Sovtek 6AS7Gs (yes, I know... suffice it to say I ordered a wide range of stuff) and it was causing the rectifier to blaze about twice as brightly as my Woo stock and upgrade 6080s. Now one of the tubes is bad, with lots of noise and a cloudy look, and they are going back, so perhaps that is that cause. I have other 6AS7Gs and 6080s coming so I'll soon be able to do more comparisons, but I'd rather stick with tubes that will run the amp as cool as possible.


----------



## Stereolab42

Think I've figured it out after getting more tubes in and finding some old posts in this thread... the TS 7236 just runs cooler than 6080s or 6AS7Gs (40 degrees cooler on the rectifier according to my Fluke), and they appear to be more efficient too... I get more volume from the same dial location. They seem rare enough I'm inclined to go ahead and get a bunch of backups from Woo...


----------



## jc9394

stereolab42 said:


> Think I've figured it out after getting more tubes in and finding some old posts in this thread... the TS 7236 just runs cooler than 6080s or 6AS7Gs (40 degrees cooler on the rectifier according to my Fluke), and they appear to be more efficient too... I get more volume from the same dial location. They seem rare enough I'm inclined to go ahead and get a bunch of backups from Woo...


 
  
  
 The 7236/5998 have more gains than 6080/6AS7G.  Just wait til you try a GZ34, it is the hottest rectifier in WA22.


----------



## Stereolab42

jc9394 said:


> The 7236/5998 have more gains than 6080/6AS7G.  Just wait til you try a GZ34, it is the hottest rectifier in WA22.


 
  
 But can an output tube have more gain but run cooler? That's specifically my experience with the TS 7236 versus other 6080s and 6A7SGs. Gain and efficiency appear to be semi-independent variables here. (As if rolling tubes wasn't complicated enough!)


----------



## jc9394

stereolab42 said:


> But can an output tube have more gain but run cooler? That's specifically my experience with the TS 7236 versus other 6080s and 6A7SGs. Gain and efficiency appear to be semi-independent variables here. (As if rolling tubes wasn't complicated enough!)


 
  
  
 It really depends on what rectifier you are using, yes it can be done.  the coolest running rectifier i tried is gz32 but you should not look for the coolest running tubes.  what you should be looking for is the best tube combos for you liking regardless of how hot/cool they run, the nos tubes will last a long time.  some of them are design to run hot to get the optimum performance from it.


----------



## GrindingThud

It runs cooler because it biases at a lower current in a typical cathode bias circuit. Measure the voltage across the cathode resistor and you will see it is much lower. I mentioned this in the 6AS7 tube rollers thread a while back. In my WA3, the PS sits around 190V depending on the tube. What I've measured is substantially different operating points in my amp when various tube types bias up in the output circuit...which I found interesting based on comments people make on how the different tubes "sound". The 6080 and 6N13S bias up around 38mA with 57V on the cathode resistor. 5998A and 7236 settle around 21mA with 32V on the cathode resistor. The 5998 is at the other extreme with only 18.6mA current and 28V on the cathode resistor. 



stereolab42 said:


> But can an output tube have more gain but run cooler? That's specifically my experience with the TS 7236 versus other 6080s and 6A7SGs. Gain and efficiency appear to be semi-independent variables here. (As if rolling tubes wasn't complicated enough!)


----------



## Stereolab42

OK, I guess I need to understand more of the theory here. First, I am not 100% clear on the different roles of the driver (input) and power (output) tubes. This is after reading at least one thread here dedicated to the subject and Googling around. The role of the rectifier is obvious -- AC to DC. Then, the DC is fed to the cathode of the driver tube, and the audio line signal is fed to the grid of the driver tube. This amplifies the VOLTAGE of the audio line signal, and the amplified voltage proceeds out the anode, right? Now, what exactly does the power tube do and how? I've heard "amplify current" is the answer but I don't understand how a vacuum tube amplifies current instead of voltage.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> OK, I guess I need to understand more of the theory here. First, I am not 100% clear on the different roles of the driver (input) and power (output) tubes. This is after reading at least one thread here dedicated to the subject and Googling around. The role of the rectifier is obvious -- AC to DC. Then, the DC is fed to the cathode of the driver tube, and the audio line signal is fed to the grid of the driver tube. This amplifies the VOLTAGE of the audio line signal, and the amplified voltage proceeds out the anode, right? Now, what exactly does the power tube do and how? I've heard "amplify current" is the answer but I don't understand how a vacuum tube amplifies current instead of voltage.


 
  
 My understanding (probably wrong) is that both the driver (e.g. 6SN7) and output (e.g. 300B) tubes are amplification tubes - doing the same job in a very similar way. The original signal is fired across from anode (+ve) to cathode (-ve) across a large steady current. As the signal passes through the steady current it amplifies the changes in the original signal. Result = amplification of the original signal.
  
 Driver / output / power tubes are all amplification tubes. In the case of a small amp like the WA6, the driver tubes alone are enough. For thumping big headphone amps, like the WA5, there are 2 drivers and 2 output tubes, one set per channel (?). I like to think of the 6SN7s acting as pre-amps to the 300Bs i.e. amplifying the source signal that is further amplified in the 300Bs.
  
 I hope I have this close to right. I would be very happy if someone with more knowledge than me could chime in and correct and/or add to this.


----------



## punit

Just wanted to post a pic of this tube combination on WA22, that I have found is universally outstanding on all the HP's that I have tried (HD 800, T1, XC, TH 900 ).
  
 WE422A + WE421A + Mullard CV 181 
  

  
 This the most dynamic sound that I have heard from the WA22, big sound stage , deep punchy bass , extended treble, very dynamic. Not for people who prefer overly warm,romantic, lush sound.


----------



## jc9394

punit said:


> Just wanted to post a pic of this tube combination on WA22, that I have found is universally outstanding on all the HP's that I have tried (HD 800, T1, XC, TH 900 ).
> 
> WE422A + WE421A + Mullard CV 181
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Did I just saw you posted your kidney for sale?  Glad you finally found a go to combo.


----------



## punit

Hahaha.....yes definitely not a combination for sane reasonable people. which sane person will spend an amount nearly equal to the cost of the amp on tubes . Some people do drugs..I do tubes.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> Hahaha.....yes definitely not a combination for sane reasonable people. which sane person will spend an amount nearly equal to the cost of the amp on tubes . Some people do drugs..I do tubes.


 
  
 Do you prefer the WA22 for the HD800 over glenn's OTL ?


----------



## TonyNewman

punit said:


> ... Some people do drugs..I do tubes.


 
  
 Drugs would be cheaper and more socially acceptable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was going to replace my 2001 crapbox of a car, then got into headfi. Now I have lots of shiny tubes to put in my WA5 and WA6 instead.


----------



## Silent One

@TonyNewman
  
 Great sound can transport you much much farther.


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> @TonyNewman
> 
> Great sound can transport you much much farther.


 
  
 Quite so. Also nice to stay on the correct side of the law.


----------



## bonesnv

punit said:


> Just wanted to post a pic of this tube combination on WA22, that I have found is universally outstanding on all the HP's that I have tried (HD 800, T1, XC, TH 900 ).
> 
> WE422A + WE421A + Mullard CV 181
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hands down my favorite configuration for my WA22 as well, but expect to donate some body parts or subject yourself to scientific experiments to cover the cost; is it bad if your skin turns neon green?
  

  
 EDIT:  Ugh that crappy photo I took really makes me miss my Nikon.


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> Do you prefer the WA22 for the HD800 over glenn's OTL ?


 

 Right now, No. Early days, just got the OTL 15 days back. I have 3 very good amps, WA22 / Glenn's OTL / AGD M9. Each has its strengths, I could live with anyone of them , depends on few factors.


----------



## punit

silent one said:


> @TonyNewman
> 
> Great sound can transport you much much farther.


 





 stole the words out of my mouth.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Do you prefer the WA22 for the HD800 over glenn's OTL ?
> ...


 
 So even though you have not had it long....you prefer Glenns OTL at the moment ?
  
 Just wondering, because I am pondering between these two amp and a decware


----------



## punit

Will pm you to discuss, so as not to derail the thread with OT.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> Will pm you to discuss, so as not to derail the thread with OT.


 
  
 Thanks, much.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Drugs would be cheaper and more socially acceptable :confused_face:
> 
> I was going to replace my 2001 crapbox of a car, then got into headfi. Now I have lots of shiny tubes to put in my WA5 and WA6 instead.


TonyN, your house must be full of music. Two separate listening stations?


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> TonyN, your house must be full of music. Two separate listening stations?


 
  
 WA6 was my first taste of Headfi - got me hooked - my first hit. It is now my PC amp for gaming and music (I use headphones with my PC - which is where this all started for me). Matches up great with my HD600. It is also my 'burn in' rig for 6SN7s and rectifiers for the WA5.
  
 The WA5 drives a set of modest floorstanders, plus a modded HE6 and HD800. My Taurus drives an LCD-X. Vega DAC feeds both (WA5 via RCA, Taurus via XLR).
  
 It's a sweet setup. Not quite there yet with the burn in and tube rolling.
  
 Biggest surprise package for me was the beefy output of the WA5. It drives my floorstanders very well and does a great job with the HE6 via the K1000 socket. I was using a Cambridge Audio 650a amp, and I didn't realise what a worthless piece of trash it was until I replaced it with the WA5 speaker outs.
  
 I tried matching the headphones to the different amps, and found the HE6 a different beast from the K1000 socket. This thing needs juice and more juice. HD800 pairs wonderfully with the WA5 HPH connection, and the LCD-X pairs beautifully with the Taurus. Vega does its job very well with whatever is thrown at it.
  
 Next step might be a power amp hooked up to the Taurus to drive better floor standers and the HE6 directly from the speaker outs.
  
 This is the most wallet draining hobby I have ever had - also the most fun.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> WA6 was my first taste of Headfi - got me hooked - my first hit. It is now my PC amp for gaming and music (I use headphones with my PC - which is where this all started for me). Matches up great with my HD600. It is also my 'burn in' rig for 6SN7s and rectifiers for the WA5.
> 
> The WA5 drives a set of modest floorstanders, plus a modded HE6 and HD800. My Taurus drives an LCD-X. Vega DAC feeds both (WA5 via RCA, Taurus via XLR).
> 
> ...


A very nice high-end audio setup you have there Tony. Yes hi-fi can be quite draining financially, but not nearly as expensive as trying to hang out and entertain beautiful young women on a daily basis.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> ... but not nearly as expensive as trying to hang out and entertain beautiful young women on a daily basis.


 
  
 The other, other hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've put that one on hold for now. Had enough dramatics in my life for a while.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Just wanted to post a pic of this tube combination on WA22, that I have found is universally outstanding on all the HP's that I have tried (HD 800, T1, XC, TH 900 ).
> 
> WE422A + WE421A + Mullard CV 181
> 
> ...


 
 yeah thats about pretty much the best tubes you can get for the WA22. i tried similar but with TS 6f8g instead of the CV181, was perfect for me, any extra warmth is the WA22's fault, the amp becomes the bottleneck at this point, it will bring out the flaws in the WA22 (a little too lush in the mids, needs more flow and finesse, like the WA5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  


punit said:


> Hahaha.....yes definitely not a combination for sane reasonable people. which sane person will spend an amount nearly equal to the cost of the amp on tubes . Some people do drugs..I do tubes.


 
  
  
 what about both?


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> The other, other hobby :wink_face:
> 
> I've put that one on hold for now. Had enough dramatics in my life for a while.


I applaud your mental clarity and conservative nature sir. I'm lucky in that the same beautiful lady has tolerated my company for over ten years, not so much today though. Which of your hp's gets the most head time?


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> I applaud your mental clarity and conservative nature sir. I'm lucky in that the same beautiful lady has tolerated my company for over ten years, not so much today though. Which of your hp's gets the most head time?


 
  
 I find myself bouncing between all 3 - mildly schizophrenic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I am still tube rolling and burning in with the WA5 - I'm sure I haven't heard the best it can do yet by a big margin.
  
 One thing has stood out to me - to my ears there is a definite synergy happened with certain combinations (HD800 + WA5) and (LCD-X + Taurus). Not sure if this is a tube+dynamic vs SS+ortho thing, but the preferred pairings were clear to me from A/B testing. Particularly big difference with the HD800 - a different animal with the WA5 pairing, but not nearly so nice with the Taurus to me. As always, YMMV.
  
 A fully modded HE6 that is given plenty of wattage (like the K1000 output of the WA5) is something quite special. I suspect this will become my 'go to' setup once burn in and tube rolling are progressed a bit more.


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> what about both?


 

 sometimes


----------



## IndieGradoFan

WA22 arrived today! Tubes are stock drivers, Tung-Sol 7236, and Sophia Princess. Surprised at how large the amp is in person. Initial reactions are very positive -- feels meatier than the Mjolnir. Can't wait for tubes to burn in. I have a pair of CV181-Z ShuGuang Treasure drivers on order.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 So jealous and great photos as well.
  
 My WA22 was suppose to be here last week. With a lot of mucking around I was then told it wasn't going to arrive. Was told by the store yesterday it was here and ready. So was all excited while driving to the store. Then was told they had got it wrong and it was a different order. I was pissed off yesterday and couldn't get any straight answers so I rang the Aussie importer (I'm in New Zealand). It hasn't even arrived there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kinda sucked all the excitement out of it now.


----------



## Stereolab42

Here's something a little weird. On my WA22 I can notice a whine through headphones more sensitive than my LCD-XCs. It is generally through both channels, although it seems to vary between them in intensity. It's not audible when music is playing, but is there during silence, and just high enough in frequency (500hz) to be on the edge of bothersome. It's independent of the volume knob position. It's not coming from a bad tube, since I have several complete sets of tubes now to swap between.
  
 It happens even with the source disconnected and every other electronic item in the room unplugged, and also with a two-prong cheater plug used to bypass ground. I have a Furman Elite-15i power conditioner, which should be filtering any AC noise, but that does nothing for this. Plugging it into other areas of the house also does nothing. I don't get any such noise from my WA6-SE at work, so I suppose the last thing I could do would be to lug the WA22 there and plug it in to completely rule in/out AC power noise. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Silent One

Congrats IndieGradoFan, you're now a Woozie!


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> WA22 arrived today! Tubes are stock drivers, Tung-Sol 7236, and Sophia Princess. Surprised at how large the amp is in person. Initial reactions are very positive -- feels meatier than the Mjolnir. Can't wait for tubes to burn in. I have a pair of CV181-Z ShuGuang Treasure drivers on order.


 
 I am a bit worried that the CV181-Z ShuGuang would not fit as it was too close to the Rectifier. I was looking at that option as well. Let me know how you get on.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> Here's something a little weird. On my WA22 I can notice a whine through headphones more sensitive than my LCD-XCs. It is generally through both channels, although it seems to vary between them in intensity. It's not audible when music is playing, but is there during silence, and just high enough in frequency (500hz) to be on the edge of bothersome. It's independent of the volume knob position. It's not coming from a bad tube, since I have several complete sets of tubes now to swap between.
> 
> It happens even with the source disconnected and every other electronic item in the room unplugged, and also with a two-prong cheater plug used to bypass ground. I have a Furman Elite-15i power conditioner, which should be filtering any AC noise, but that does nothing for this. Plugging it into other areas of the house also does nothing. I don't get any such noise from my WA6-SE at work, so I suppose the last thing I could do would be to lug the WA22 there and plug it in to completely rule in/out AC power noise. Any other suggestions?


 
 Don't know if this helps, but I had the same issue with my WA6, and although you said it wasn't the tubes…in the end it was. Same issue with my Schiit Lyr. After enough burn-inof the tubes the noise totally went away on both amps, hope this helps.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Don't know if this helps, but I had the same issue with my WA6, and although you said it wasn't the tubes…in the end it was. Same issue with my Schiit Lyr. After enough burn-inof the tubes the noise totally went away on both amps, hope this helps.


 
  
 Ditto for me with my WA5. I was sure it wasn't the tubes, but it was. My Sophia 6SN7s required yet more burn in - 100+ hours for these babies to lose the harshness.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> I am a bit worried that the CV181-Z ShuGuang would not fit as it was too close to the Rectifier. I was looking at that option as well. Let me know how you get on.


 
 I thought the same. See the photo of the WA22 here though: http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/three-top-tier-headphone-amplifiers-for-hardcore-high-enders/
  
 Either way, I'll let you know how it works out. I ordered my pair from Ebay for a good price.


----------



## TonyNewman

indiegradofan said:


> I thought the same. See the photo of the WA22 here though: http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/three-top-tier-headphone-amplifiers-for-hardcore-high-enders/
> 
> Either way, I'll let you know how it works out. I ordered my pair from Ebay for a good price.


 
  
 I have the Shuguang Treasures - nice tubes - but for not much more coin you can go 'all the way' to the Psvane T2s (grey bottles). I have found them a distinctly better product, but they require a LOT of burn in (150+ hours).
  
 As for 274B style rectifiers, I have found the NOS Mullard GZ32 is cheaper than the Sophia Princess and the EML 274B and sounds better than either of them in my WA6 and WA5.
  
 As always, YMMV. One Headfier's favorite might be another's junk.


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> I thought the same. See the photo of the WA22 here though: http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/three-top-tier-headphone-amplifiers-for-hardcore-high-enders/
> 
> Either way, I'll let you know how it works out. I ordered my pair from Ebay for a good price.


 

 Oh, Great spotting. They look fine. I will be using the Mullard GZ32 Rectifier. I don't think it is any fatter than the Sophia. So I should be okay as well. Thanks.
  
 Please give me your impressions on the drive tubes when you replace them.


----------



## Stereolab42

joseph69 said:


> Don't know if this helps, but I had the same issue with my WA6, and although you said it wasn't the tubes…in the end it was. Same issue with my Schiit Lyr. After enough burn-inof the tubes the noise totally went away on both amps, hope this helps.


 
  
  


tonynewman said:


> Ditto for me with my WA5. I was sure it wasn't the tubes, but it was. My Sophia 6SN7s required yet more burn in - 100+ hours for these babies to lose the harshness.


 
  
 Interesting. I have been rolling enough I could certainly be accused of not giving any individual tube or pair of tubes enough time to burn-in. (I have the Sophia 6SN7s also and I've been swapping them with some Sylvania brown bases.) So the noise you guys heard was similar, sort of higher-pitched (500hz is what I'm hearing)? Man, I could have sworn it was power-related, since I've read that a noise that shifts somewhat in intensity between channels over time is often power-related.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> .... I will be using the Mullard GZ32 Rectifier. I don't think it is any fatter than the Sophia...


 
  
 The Mullard GZ32 is dwarfed by the Sophia Princess. The Mullard is roughly the same size as the Treasure series CV-181s (really 6SN7s).


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Interesting. I have been rolling enough I could certainly be accused of not giving any individual tube or pair of tubes enough time to burn-in. (I have the Sophia 6SN7s also and I've been swapping them with some Sylvania brown bases.) So the noise you guys heard was similar, sort of higher-pitched (500hz is what I'm hearing)? Man, I could have sworn it was power-related, since I've read that a noise that shifts somewhat in intensity between channels over time is often power-related.


 
  
 It was a mildly annoying hum that was only noticeable during quiet moments or between songs. I only heard it via the K1000 output with the HE6, the HPH output on the HD800 was unaffected - that's what led to think it wasn't the tubes. I tried all sorts of remedies and then I swapped out the drivers for an unrelated reason - and no hum. Another 30 or so hours on the SE6SN7s and the hum is gone.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The Mullard GZ32 is dwarfed by the Sophia Princess. The Mullard is roughly the same size as the Treasure series CV-181s (really 6SN7s).


 

 Excellent. So I should be fine. Thanks for the tip on the Psvane T2's. I was looking at their stuff last night.


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> It was a mildly annoying hum that was only noticeable during quiet moments or between songs. I only heard it via the K1000 output with the HE6, the HPH output on the HD800 was unaffected - that's what led to think it wasn't the tubes. I tried all sorts of remedies and then I swapped out the drivers for an unrelated reason - and no hum. Another 30 or so hours on the SE6SN7s and the hum is gone.


 
  
 OK, I cleaned all the tube sockets with deoxit cleaner then deoxit gold, from MusicDirect's tube cleaner kit. Then I had big problems with hum, and noticed my Sophia Princess was getting much hotter in one grid than the other. Swapped in another Princess and finally everything is noise-free. I will have to email Sophia regarding that Princess.
  
 (Maybe I should just have gotten a Burson Soloist and life would be easier? Lol.)


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> (Maybe I should just have gotten a Burson Soloist and life would be easier? Lol.)


 
  
 I have that feeling every time I spend $$$ on tubes that suck.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> OK, I cleaned all the tube sockets with deoxit cleaner then deoxit gold, from MusicDirect's tube cleaner kit. Then I had big problems with hum, and noticed my Sophia Princess was getting much hotter in one grid than the other. Swapped in another Princess and finally everything is noise-free. I will have to email Sophia regarding that Princess.
> 
> (Maybe I should just have gotten a Burson Soloist and life would be easier? Lol.)


 
 Well now at least you know what the problem was.


----------



## Stereolab42

joseph69 said:


> Well now at least you know what the problem was.


 
  
 I hope. One of the disadvantages of an amp with 5 tubes and 5 sockets is the difficulty of debugging. For example, the bad Sophia caused me to believe that most of output tubes I had just bought were bad, and I spent hours swapping them around, with varying results before swapping the Sophia. But with the good Sophia, I still had to debug one bad output tube.
  
 The WA6-SE is definitely much easier to work with, I have not encountered a single bad power/driver tube on that baby, even among the dozen or so pairs I got from eBay, some for rock-bottom prices. And it sounds outstanding, I'm sure I'd have to A/B it side-by-side with the WA22 to really tell a difference.


----------



## bonesnv

stereolab42 said:


> I hope. One of the disadvantages of an amp with 5 tubes and 5 sockets is the difficulty of debugging. For example, the bad Sophia caused me to believe that most of output tubes I had just bought were bad, and I spent hours swapping them around, with varying results before swapping the Sophia. But with the good Sophia, I still had to debug one bad output tube.
> 
> The WA6-SE is definitely much easier to work with, I have not encountered a single bad power/driver tube on that baby, even among the dozen or so pairs I got from eBay, some for rock-bottom prices. And it sounds outstanding, I'm sure I'd have to A/B it side-by-side with the WA22 to really tell a difference.


 
  
 That is one of the more common complaints I have read about the Sophia to be honest.  There were some reports about arcing as well when first turning the amp on, despite Jack saying it was "a-ok" it still always left me leery when I used that rectifier, didn't seem normal.
  
 Also, get a pencil eraser, one of those rectangular pink ones you used in grammar school.  Works wonders on cleaning the pins on tubes instead of paying for some of the more "tube specific" cleaning items.  Then get some canned air with the direction tip on it so you can blow out the sockets themselves on the amp, the nozzle fits right in the pin holes.  Just don't be a dumb dumb and turn the can upside down, accidentally spraying CO2 liquid inside.
  
 One of the issues I had early on with my WA22 was particulates and bits of dirt were coming off the tube pins from my NOS tubes and getting into the sockets which was causing some hums, fuzziness and other oddities, as well as some dirt from the packing material and box it was shipped in.  Spent some time thoroughly cleaning everything, re-seating all of my socket savers and tubes.  
  
 Have not had any issues since with any set of tubes I have put in. *knock on wood*


----------



## Stereolab42

bonesnv said:


> That is one of the more common complaints I have read about the Sophia to be honest.  There were some reports about arcing as well when first turning the amp on, despite Jack saying it was "a-ok" it still always left me leery when I used that rectifier, didn't seem normal.
> 
> Also, get a pencil eraser, one of those rectangular pink ones you used in grammar school.  Works wonders on cleaning the pins on tubes instead of paying for some of the more "tube specific" cleaning items.  Then get some canned air with the direction tip on it so you can blow out the sockets themselves on the amp, the nozzle fits right in the pin holes.  Just don't be a dumb dumb and turn the can upside down, accidentally spraying CO2 liquid inside.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Regarding socket savers... what type do you use? I got some cheapo Chinese socket savers and quickly threw them out. Garbage quality, they magnified any existing noise problems and caused issues of their own. If the sockets in Woo amps are somewhat user-replaceable, I'd rather just do without savers. Are they?


----------



## bonesnv

I got mine from TubeMonger.


----------



## bpcans

indiegradofan said:


> WA22 arrived today! Tubes are stock drivers, Tung-Sol 7236, and Sophia Princess. Surprised at how large the amp is in person. Initial reactions are very positive -- feels meatier than the Mjolnir. Can't wait for tubes to burn in. I have a pair of CV181-Z ShuGuang Treasure drivers on order.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Congratulations IGF. How do you like the Audeze's?


----------



## IndieGradoFan

bpcans said:


> Congratulations IGF. How do you like the Audeze's?


 

 Thanks! I love, love the LCD-X. Makes me seriously consider selling all other (non-portable) phones. It's also very versatile amp-wise, from direct output of computer/phone all the way to the WA22.


----------



## bpcans

indiegradofan said:


> Thanks! I love, love the LCD-X. Makes me seriously consider selling all other (non-portable) phones. It's also very versatile amp-wise, from direct output of computer/phone all the way to the WA22.


Can Grado RS1i's and Audeze LCD-X's live together in the same house? I was toying with the idea of recabling my RS1i's. Do you still have your RS1's with the Black Dragon cables, and did recabling improve their performance?


----------



## IndieGradoFan

bpcans said:


> Can Grado RS1i's and Audeze LCD-X's live together in the same house? I was toying with the idea of recabling my RS1i's. Do you still have your RS1's with the Black Dragon cables, and did recabling improve their performance?


 

 Definitely very different sound signatures 
  
 I bought my RS1is used -- they had already been reterminated with the Black Dragon cable and dual XLRs. I knew I wanted a balanced RS1i so I jumped on these when I saw them for sale. One thing that bugs me about the Black Dragon v1 (not v2 though) is that the sleeving is rather stiff. As a result, I had Drew install HD800 connectors. Now I can use my balanced cable with WA22 and Mjolnir but switch to something lighter when I'm using with my portable amp. I also bought HD800 to Audeze pigtail connectors so I can reuse my LCD-X cable with the RS1is.
  
 See http://www.head-fi.org/t/444439/grado-rs1i-impressions-thread/1365#post_10867751 for pictures.
  
 I don't really hear sound quality differences between decent cables. I primarily buy cables based on ergonomics and connectivity.


----------



## bpcans

IndieGradoFan, so your saying that the balanced is or is not better than a standard 1/4 inch jack connection. Having the capability to change cables on your Grado's, or any other of your favourite hp's for that matter, sounds like a cool thing to have.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> I hope. One of the disadvantages of an amp with 5 tubes and 5 sockets is the difficulty of debugging. For example, the bad Sophia caused me to believe that most of output tubes I had just bought were bad, and I spent hours swapping them around, with varying results before swapping the Sophia. But with the good Sophia, I still had to debug one bad output tube.
> 
> The WA6-SE is definitely much easier to work with, I have not encountered a single bad power/driver tube on that baby, even among the dozen or so pairs I got from eBay, some for rock-bottom prices. And it sounds outstanding, I'm sure I'd have to A/B it side-by-side with the WA22 to really tell a difference.


 
 I can totally see how this can be a disadvantage when trouble shooting tubes.
 I've also never had any issues with tubes in my WA6, and I purchased them all NOS from eBay.
 Glad to hear you straightened out your troubles…now enjoy!





  


bonesnv said:


> That is one of the more common complaints I have read about the Sophia to be honest.  There were some reports about arcing as well when first turning the amp on, despite Jack saying it was "a-ok" it still always left me leery when I used that rectifier, didn't seem normal.
> 
> Also, get a pencil eraser, one of those rectangular pink ones you used in grammar school.  Works wonders on cleaning the pins on tubes instead of paying for some of the more "tube specific" cleaning items.  Then get some canned air with the direction tip on it so you can blow out the sockets themselves on the amp, the nozzle fits right in the pin holes.  Just don't be a dumb dumb and turn the can upside down, accidentally spraying CO2 liquid inside.
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent advice on preventing issues with the tubes/sockets!


----------



## koiloco

indiegradofan said:


> WA22 arrived today! Tubes are stock drivers, Tung-Sol 7236, and Sophia Princess. Surprised at how large the amp is in person. Initial reactions are very positive -- feels meatier than the Mjolnir. Can't wait for tubes to burn in. I have a pair of CV181-Z ShuGuang Treasure drivers on order.


 

 Gorgeous!  You will enjoy it tremendously.  I still do with mine.


----------



## bpcans

indiegradofan said:


> WA22 arrived today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gosh IGF, I don't know if I can wait until Christmas for Glenn to build me one of his OTL amps. In my first conversation with Jack Wu he specifically suggested the WA22. Now I'm verklempted with remorse and sadness. Happy for you though! Only thing holding me back from kicking out the chair I'm standing on is the question of where would I put a 25 pound headphone amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Gosh IGF, I don't know if I can wait until Christmas for Glenn to build me one of his OTL amps. In my first conversation with Jack Wu he specifically suggested the WA22. Now I'm verklempted with remorse and sadness. Happy for you though! Only thing holding me back from kicking out the chair I'm standing on is the question of where would I put a 25 pound headphone amp.


 
  
 Go WA5. You could beat a bear to death with either part of the unit and probably not even dent it.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Go WA5. You could beat a bear to death with either part of the unit and probably not even dent it.


Tony you are an endgamer all the way. If I got a WA5 what could I possibly want, or need, after that. And where would I put a 40 pound amp? J-K.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Tony you are an endgamer all the way. If I got a WA5 what could I possibly want, or need, after that. And where would I put a 40 pound amp? J-K.


 
  
 Ah - the tube rolling. After WA5 is setup (on a sturdy table) it becomes a quest to find the right tube combinations for your ears and favorite HPs. Bags of fun.
  
 It drives the HE6 and HD800 wonderfully well and does double duty as a more than decent amp for (easily driven)floorstanders.
  
 I haven't put my WA5 on a set of scales, but 40 pounds sounds a bit light. I think each component is around 35 pounds - 70 pounds total.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Ah - the tube rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's the rare amp that can make the HE-6 and the HD800's sing, let alone drive audio speakers too. Do you ever listen to your speakers with some hp's on at the same time?


----------



## Stereolab42

The crackling/popping that frequently occurs when I turn my WA22's volume knob is starting to annoy me. Anyone have luck opening up the bottom and spraying Deoxit on the DACT CT2 innards? Why does a $400 attenuator have these problems? Again I wish Woo had used a simple but reliable pot in the WA22 like they did for the WA6-SE.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> It's the rare amp that can make the HE-6 and the HD800's sing, let alone drive audio speakers too. Do you ever listen to your speakers with some hp's on at the same time?


 
  
 Perversely, yes. A/B testing while doing that really shows how much 'more' of the music HPs can deliver. My floor standers are very ordinary compared to any flagship HP. Bags more detail, control and engagement via the HPs. I can also crank the volume a little without annoying the neighbours.
  
 To my ears, both the HE6 and HD800 sound better from the WA5, while the Taurus does a better job with the LCD-X.


----------



## punit

bpcans said:


> Gosh IGF, I don't know if I can wait until Christmas for Glenn to build me one of his OTL amps. In my first conversation with Jack Wu he specifically suggested the WA22. Now I'm verklempted with remorse and sadness. Happy for you though! Only thing holding me back from kicking out the chair I'm standing on is the question of where would I put a 25 pound headphone amp.


 

 I see that you have  Grados, why did you order an OTL for them ? OTL's are not the ideal match for low impd cans ?


----------



## bpcans

punit, I listened to my RS1i's through kvtaco17's Glenn OTL amp at a headphone meet here in MPLS last spring, they sounded fantastic. I'm also looking to add another pair of hp's, maybe some HD800's or some planar's.


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> The crackling/popping that frequently occurs when I turn my WA22's volume knob is starting to annoy me. Anyone have luck opening up the bottom and spraying Deoxit on the DACT CT2 innards? Why does a $400 attenuator have these problems? Again I wish Woo had used a simple but reliable pot in the WA22 like they did for the WA6-SE.


 

 I've never had this issue with mine.  Did you talk with Jack?


----------



## bonesnv

stereolab42 said:


> The crackling/popping that frequently occurs when I turn my WA22's volume knob is starting to annoy me. Anyone have luck opening up the bottom and spraying Deoxit on the DACT CT2 innards? Why does a $400 attenuator have these problems? Again I wish Woo had used a simple but reliable pot in the WA22 like they did for the WA6-SE.


 
  
 Call Jack, it shouldn't do that.
  
 Mine is totally silent.  (EDIT:  By totally silent, I mean as silent as any stepped attenuator can be, but nothing is coming through the cans ever.)


----------



## Stereolab42

bonesnv said:


> Call Jack, it shouldn't do that.
> 
> Mine is totally silent.


 
  
 I've partially figured it out, it's due to an interaction with the balanced input. Without a balanced source turned on and connected, the volume knob is indeed almost completely noise-free. With a balanced source on and connected, there is a pop between detentes, of increasing volume as the knob goes up. Could this indicate a grounding/stray DC voltage issue? I'm not sure what component to blame since I tried with two different balanced sources and two different pairs of XLRs, and both produced the issue -- but to varying degrees of severity. I've asked Jack for a diagnosis.


----------



## bonesnv

stereolab42 said:


> I've partially figured it out, it's due to an interaction with the balanced input. Without a balanced source turned on and connected, the volume knob is indeed almost completely noise-free. With a balanced source on and connected, there is a pop between detentes, of increasing volume as the knob goes up. Could this indicate a grounding/stray DC voltage issue? I'm not sure what component to blame since I tried with two different balanced sources and two different pairs of XLRs, and both produced the issue -- but to varying degrees of severity. I've asked Jack for a diagnosis.


 
  
 Sounds borked.


----------



## Stereolab42

bonesnv said:


> Sounds borked.


 
  
 Figured it out.
  
 Talking to DAC people, it turns out the XLR output of many DACs have a small, identical, idle DC voltage between the signal pins and the ground pin. This voltage is of course canceled out inside the amp during the gain stage, so you don't hear it. But if you have, say, a stepped attenuator before the gain stage, like in a WA22, it will cause clicks as the connection is broken as you turn the knob from one detente to another, even with no music playing.
  
 But then I ran this experiment... I played a simple test tone, say 80hz, through _both_ RCA and XLR inputs, and changed volume while listening. The click occurs now with both in the same way, hearable easily over the tone. So in the end, it's just the nature of stepped attenuators to create a click if any signal _prior to the gain stage_ is passing through them while you change the volume!
  
*TLDR:* Neither the DACs nor the WA22 are misbehaving, this is just how stepped attenuators work. And I'm enough of a knob-twiddler that it bugs me.
  
 I am asking Jack if I can either upgrade to a WA5 or replace the attenuator with a pot. Since I'd have to send him the WA22 either way, I'm guessing why not upgrade, if he's willing. If neither option is possible, I will probably sell the (mint) WA22 on my own and consider my next step.


----------



## 2359glenn

stereolab42 said:


> bonesnv said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds borked.
> ...


 

 Change out the stepped attenuator to a Gold Point stepped attenuator these make no noise.
 A little expensive but worth it.


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> Figured it out.
> 
> Talking to DAC people, it turns out the XLR output of many DACs have a small, identical, idle DC voltage between the signal pins and the ground pin. This voltage is of course canceled out inside the amp during the gain stage, so you don't hear it. But if you have, say, a stepped attenuator before the gain stage, like in a WA22, it will cause clicks as the connection is broken as you turn the knob from one detente to another, even with no music playing.
> 
> ...


 
 i had this problem on my Burson Conductor i was told by them to lube it a little help for a bit then popping returned  so i had the Attenuator changed to a Khozmo 48 step attenuator i was disapointed when it came back  because it was still popping a bit sent PCX an email and they told me on there gear it was totally silent when they tested it so i dont know what to do about that .Another thing on my WA2 i have a stepped attenuator which is totally silent most of the time but for some reason sometimes it pops when i ajust it couldnt reproduce this  looks like gear related but what causes that  .This is an email PCX sent to me regarding popping.but i dont really know the meanig of what he's talking about. .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   It depends on your system…if there is a small amount of DC offset in the playback chain, then the switch action will cause a little bit of popping…..at our end here, we heard none…but again, we don’t have your system                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So any ideas.Thanks


----------



## roskodan

that's what manufacturers and sellers will tell you, that it is normal it clicks, but it's not, especially if it's marketed as a MBB (make before brake) type attenuator
  
 there will always be some very subtle clicking if you change volume while the dac has not yet locked on the source or when playing low bass tune
  
 but if it clicks really bad and especially if the clicks get louder when rising volume, then it's the attenuator that's faulty, bad MBB connection or really dirty/stained contacts
  
 another issue may be your power outlet is not grounded properly
  
 Quote:


stereolab42 said:


>


 


2359glenn said:


> stereolab42 said:
> 
> 
> >


 


mikelap said:


>


----------



## Rawrbington

man i haven't stumbled into these parts in a while.  I  see this is still the best thread around.  You guys have some beautiful gear.
 My WA6SE with the stepped attenuator clicks a bit when changing the volume.  Is that bad?


----------



## JustinBieber

I think that's common and all stepped attenuators will do that eventually, at least that's what I was told. My Burson Soloist used to do the same exact thing and they told me to clean it with WD40.
  
 I'd email Woo just to double check. 
  
 edit: Bad if it's clicky/distorted through the sounds in your headphones when changing volume. It's supposed to however mechanically click when you change volume.


----------



## roskodan

yeah we were talking about the clicking/popping (like dirty vinyls) sound coming from the headphones
  
 the mechanical sound from turning the attenuator is perfectly normal


----------



## Stereolab42

2359glenn said:


> Change out the stepped attenuator to a Gold Point stepped attenuator these make no noise.
> A little expensive but worth it.


 
  
 Wow, these guys are located five minutes from my place. If I'm feeling lucky I might ask them if they could swap the attenuator themselves for a fee. But if that doesn't work I would then have an oddball WA22 with a void warranty which might be tricky to sell. I'll see what Jack says tomorrow but right now I'm thinking an upgrade to a WA5 might be the safest bet.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Wow, these guys are located five minutes from my place. If I'm feeling lucky I might ask them if they could swap the attenuator themselves for a fee. But if that doesn't work I would then have an oddball WA22 with a void warranty which might be tricky to sell. I'll see what Jack says tomorrow but right now I'm thinking an upgrade to a WA5 might be the safest bet.


 
  
 Pity about what happened with your the WA22, but I can give a huge recommendation for the WA5.
  
 I jumped from a WA6 to the WA5 and never regretted it. Lovely sound and it drives the HE6 and my floorstanders very well indeed. Lots tubey goodness.
  
 EDIT - the WA5 has a 'normal' gain knob - not stepped and it works just fine for me.


----------



## Badas

Time to join the party at last. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 I will be busy tonight breakin this virgin in.


----------



## whirlwind

^^ Nice ^^


----------



## Badas

whirlwind said:


> ^^ Nice ^^




Damn are the Woo's suppose to sound great straight out of the box? First 20 seconds and I nearly fainted. Smashes my Oppo HA1 to bits.

I got some other NOS tubes on the way. Still impressed with just stock tubes.

I also got Drivers that were in Woo marked boxes. Anyone else tried them?


----------



## kchew

Congrats Badas! If you think the Woo with stock tubes sounds great, you'll be in for a treat with NOS tubes.


----------



## jc9394

badas said:


> Damn are the Woo's suppose to sound great straight out of the box? First 20 seconds and I nearly fainted. Smashes my Oppo HA1 to bits.
> 
> I got some other NOS tubes on the way. Still impressed with just stock tubes.
> 
> I also got Drivers that were in Woo marked boxes. Anyone else tried them?


 
  
  
 If you think stock tubes sound great, just wait til you roll in some NOS tubes...  The WA22 definitely can tailor your to mood with different tubes combo.


----------



## Silent One

badas said:


> Time to join the party at last.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats! Time to update your signature. Wait...are you sure you don't have mandatory work to do tonight?


----------



## Badas

I know this thread likes Pics. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have studied a lot of them.
  
 Now I can contribute. My Woo WA22.
  

  

  

  
 Whole rack looks like a mix of modern with ties to the past. I like it.


----------



## bpcans

badas said:


> I know this thread likes Pics.  I have studied a lot of them.
> 
> Now I can contribute. My Woo WA22.
> 
> ...


Fantastic pics of a great looking audio rig. How's the sound a day later?


----------



## Badas

bpcans said:


> Fantastic pics of a great looking audio rig. How's the sound a day later?


 
  
 Sooooooooooooooooooooooo pleased. Beautiful sound. Better than predicted.
  
 I auditioned the WA2 and had the Oppo HA-1 right next to it. I thought the WA2 had a slight edge on the HA-1 but not anything to get to excited over. Ultimately why I went WA22 instead of WA2. This WA22 is on a different level. Last night I was going from Oppo to Woo in balanced mode and the Woo won clearly on all types of music.
  
 Got tubes on the way as well. So that will be interesting.
 I was interested that the WA22 still had a lot of treble. I could loose a bit of that. I don't overly like treble. I will cater my tubes to suit. WA22 had a lot better bass extension than the Oppo.


----------



## joseph69

Congratulations on your new Woo, very nice looking system you have there!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 

  

  

  
 Whole rack looks like a mix of modern with ties to the past. I like it.
  



 *HeadPhones: Audeze LCD-3*.​ *DAC and Amp: Oppo HA-1*.​ *Source: iPod Classic 160G with Arcam drDock (digital), Oppo BDP-103D for CD, SACD and DVD Audio.*​  ​ *Ordered: Woo Audio WA22*​


----------



## Silent One

Very nice pix, Badas. I see you didn't waste any time!


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Congrats Badas!


----------



## koiloco

@Badas, has anyone said "sorry for your wallet" yet?


----------



## Badas

koiloco said:


> @Badas, has anyone said "sorry for your wallet" yet?


 

 No and they should have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have built my headphone system in 3 months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 4 months ago I hadn't even listen to music in cans for like 15 years. Now it's all I do.


----------



## Badas

I got my first NoS tubes, however my amp has only been used for 6 hours. Do I put them in now or wait until the amp breaks in a bit?


----------



## Silent One

Everyone has a different goal, different reality. I'd place them in...


----------



## TonyNewman

I would put them in the amp immediately - 2 birds, one stone and all that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am burning in some Psvane tubes right now (T2s and WE replicas) - these buggers take 150-300 hours to burn in. That is about a month of running the amp around 12 hours per day, every day, per tube set. I'm lucky I live less than 5 minutes from the office - I can leave my WA5 and WA6 running during the day and check on them at lunchtime - otherwise burn in would take 3 to 4 months.


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, I'd rather get on with the show!


----------



## TonyNewman

A few weeks back I mentioned a problem I was having fitting a pair of large 300Bs (Sophias) together with big bottle 6SN7s from Shuguang/Psvane in my WA5. It didn't really work without quite a bit of pressure between the 300B-6SN7 tubes and it wasn't possible to fully seat them, which concerned me.
  
 I found some 300B 'socket savers' on Ebay and installed them last night. I am very pleased with the result and thought I should share with the forum in case anyone else has a similar problem.
  
 Apologies for the poor camera work - hopefully you can see the gaps that now exists between the PSvane T2s and the SERP 300Bs. I have a spare set of socket savers on the left for detail.
  

  
 The T2s are very lightly touching - I can slide a sheet of paper between them without much trouble.
  
 I can't detect any impact on SQ from using the socket savers at all. The socket savers appear to be high quality - very happy with them.
  
 If anyone would like me to re-post the link to the EBay socket saver item just let me know (or PM me - whatever).


----------



## Silent One

A piece of paper? Whew that's close! In this hobby, we are a determined bunch.


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> A piece of paper? Whew that's close! In this hobby, we are a determined bunch.


 
  
 Where there is a will there is a way


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> A few weeks back I mentioned a problem I was having fitting a pair of large 300Bs (Sophias) together with big bottle 6SN7s from Shuguang/Psvane in my WA5. It didn't really work without quite a bit of pressure between the 300B-6SN7 tubes and it wasn't possible to fully seat them, which concerned me.
> 
> I found some 300B 'socket savers' on Ebay and installed them last night. I am very pleased with the result and thought I should share with the forum in case anyone else has a similar problem.
> 
> ...




Are they like a socket riser?

Wouldn't that have a added benefit that if you removed a tube and a pin got broken it would be in the riser not the Woo? I like that idea.

I threw in the new power tubes and I'm listening to them now. Heaps more power than the stock tube.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Are they like a socket riser?


 
  
 I think it is the same thing. I am using them as risers - they work


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I think it is the same thing. I am using them as risers - they work




Can you post the link please? 

I love my new Woo. Well worth the investment.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Can you post the link please?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sure - link below.
  
LINK


----------



## bfreedma

badas said:


> Time to join the party at last.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 A little late, but congrats on the new gear.  Now put those upgraded tubes in!!!!!


----------



## billerb1

Looking for a tube recommendation(s)Have been running my recabled Beyer T1's through my WA2 which I purchased about 6 months ago. Love the tubes I've decided to run with - Tung Sol 5998's power tubes, either 60's Holland-made Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's or 60's American-made white label Amperex 7308 PQ's driver tubes and RFT EZ80 rectifiers. The sound is very upfront (the way I like it), very detailed but full-bodied timbre....a very "being there", live feel.
I'm looking for an occasional super warm alternative sound for variety. Give me some tube choices to consider. Would very much appreciate it.


----------



## punit

badas said:


> Can you post the link please?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


tonynewman said:


> Sure - link below.
> 
> LINK


 

 Badas, those can't be used on WA22. This can :
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCTAL-SOCKET-SAVER-NOVIB-NOS-GE-USA-OMRON-JAPAN-Vib-Red-Base-NOT-Made-in-China-/160879655126?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25752cb8d6


----------



## billerb1

Looking for a tube recommendation(s). Have been running my recabled Beyer T1's through my WA2 which I purchased about 6 months ago. Love the tubes I've decided to run with - Tung Sol 5998's power tubes, either 60's Holland-made Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's or 60's American-made white label Amperex 7308 PQ's driver tubes and RFT EZ80 rectifiers. The sound is very upfront (the way I like it), very detailed but full-bodied timbre....a very "being there", live feel.
I'm looking for an occasional super warm alternative sound for variety. Give me some tube choices to consider. Would very much appreciate it.


----------



## punit

billerb1 said:


> Looking for a tube recommendation(s)Have been running my recabled Beyer T1's through my WA2 which I purchased about 6 months ago. Love the tubes I've decided to run with - Tung Sol 5998's power tubes, either 60's Holland-made Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's or 60's American-made white label Amperex 7308 PQ's driver tubes and RFT EZ80 rectifiers. The sound is very upfront (the way I like it), very detailed but full-bodied timbre....a very "being there", live feel.
> I'm looking for an occasional super warm alternative sound for variety. Give me some tube choices to consider. Would very much appreciate it.


 

 Check this thread.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations


----------



## billerb1

punit said:


> Check this thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations


 

 Have it memorized.  Looking for some fresh ideas or strong opinions on some old ones.


----------



## kkcc

badas said:


> I threw in the new power tubes and I'm listening to them now. Heaps more power than the stock tube.




Congrats and glad u like it! U need to try the ts5998/chatham2399 power tubes after you had fun with the 7236


----------



## koiloco

kkcc said:


> Congrats and glad u like it! U need to try the *ts5998*/chatham2399 power tubes after you had fun with the 7236


 
 My favorites...


----------



## TonyNewman

punit said:


> Badas, those can't be used on WA22. This can :
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCTAL-SOCKET-SAVER-NOVIB-NOS-GE-USA-OMRON-JAPAN-Vib-Red-Base-NOT-Made-in-China-/160879655126?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25752cb8d6


 
  
 Quite right - thank you for pointing that out. The sockets I use mine on are 4 pin 300B. They won't fit anything else.


----------



## Stereolab42

Well, my WA22 is on its way back to Woo. Like my 6SE it was built fabulously well and sounded fabulous, but I'm just allergic to stepped attenuators, and was unwilling to modify the amp. Luckily I will now be getting a pimped WA5 in a month as its replacement. Time to roll some 300Bs!


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> Well, my WA22 is on its way back to Woo. Like my 6SE it was built fabulously well and sounded fabulous, but I'm just allergic to stepped attenuators, and was unwilling to modify the amp. Luckily I will now be getting a pimped WA5 in a month as its replacement. Time to roll some 300Bs!


 

 Gratz but I am even more sorry for your wallet now.  300Bs will cost a bit more to roll


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Well, my WA22 is on its way back to Woo. Like my 6SE it was built fabulously well and sounded fabulous, but I'm just allergic to stepped attenuators, and was unwilling to modify the amp. Luckily I will now be getting a pimped WA5 in a month as its replacement. Time to roll some 300Bs!


 

 Hhhhmmm,
  
 I'm not actually using volume control on my WA22. I have it set in one position. Low Gain at 2/3's volume. I then use my Oppo HA-1 as a DAC / Pre-amp and use it's volume to control the listening level. That way I can sit back and use the Oppo's remote control for volume.
  
 Is there anything wrong doing it that way?
  
 If I carry on using it that way I won't wear out the Woo's volume control.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> Hhhhmmm,
> 
> I'm not actually using volume control on my WA22. I have it set in one position. Low Gain at 2/3's volume. I then use my Oppo HA-1 as a DAC / Pre-amp and use it's volume to control the listening level. That way I can sit back and use the Oppo's remote control for volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 As I mentioned before, it's always better for SQ to have the gain of the last item in an audio chain as low as possible. Since the Woo is the last item, you want to keep its volume as low as possible while keeping the input line voltage as high as possible (without exceeding 2V at 0db for RCAs or 4V at 0db for XLRs). Ideally this means you bypass any attenuation stage in the DAC for even better SQ (I know the HA-1 has such a mode). So now you're left with twiddling the Woo's knob to adjust volume. But with a stepped attenuator this becomes annoying since sometimes the desired volume is in-between two steps. Now you have to turn off bypass mode in your DAC and attenuate on the DAC by, say, 10db, just so you have enough room to work with on the amp's volume knob.
  
 Yeah, stepped attenuators are the tools of the devil. A lot of high-end amp makers have been moving away from these things lately, and I hope Woo follows suit with the WA22.
  
 Oh, and any audiophile volume control won't wear out for many, many years, and when they do, you're already out of warranty and so can just have it with a soldering iron and a replacement. In fact there's a better chance of it going bad if you _never_ move it.


----------



## bonesnv

Guess I am just not as picky about volume control to have noticed an issue.  I actually like the DACT vs the POTS on the 6SE.  There isn't anything harmful in adjusting the DAC if it permits it by 1-2 DB's.  The Matrix for example has digital output controls built into their ASIO driver, so I can adjust it to -2db on the master channel or on independent left/right channels.  My WA22 stays at the 9 o'clock position pretty much on all music aside from 1-2 albums.
  
 Hopefully you enjoy the WA5 and it is a bit more to your liking.


----------



## bbophead

stereolab42 said:


> Yeah, stepped attenuators are the tools of the devil. A lot of high-end amp makers have been moving away from these things lately, and I hope Woo follows suit with the WA22.
> 
> Oh, and any audiophile volume control won't wear out for many, many years, and when they do, you're already out of warranty and so can just have it with a soldering iron and a replacement. In fact there's a better chance of it going bad if you _never_ move it.


 
 Ain't THAT the truth.  In what's left of my mind, I think having a stepped attenuator is a good thing, IF the face plate is accurately marked so you can easily go to the place of goodness on the volume control.  But, no, it's ALWAYS a place where it's just not quite the right level.  Up, and it's too loud, one notch down, too soft.  So, give me the old volume control on my WA6.  I'll find the right level and, you know what, it won't drive me crazy.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> As I mentioned before, it's always better for SQ to have the gain of the last item in an audio chain as low as possible. Since the Woo is the last item, you want to keep its volume as low as possible while keeping the input line voltage as high as possible (without exceeding 2V at 0db for RCAs or 4V at 0db for XLRs). Ideally this means you bypass any attenuation stage in the DAC for even better SQ (I know the HA-1 has such a mode). So now you're left with twiddling the Woo's knob to adjust volume. But with a stepped attenuator this becomes annoying since sometimes the desired volume is in-between two steps. Now you have to turn off bypass mode in your DAC and attenuate on the DAC by, say, 10db, just so you have enough room to work with on the amp's volume knob.


 
  
 I will never use a manual volume control. I sit to far away plus my chair is to comfortable. So remote volume is a must.
 I always planned to use the Oppo HA-1 as the volume control.
 Oppo specs say the output is 4.6 ± 0.3 Vrms for XLR.
 So I guess as long as I don't hit full volume on the Oppo the Woo will be fine.
 At the moment I have Woo set on 2/3's power low gain. Oppo volume gets controlled between 0 and 3/4's power also low gain.


----------



## jc9394

stereolab42 said:


> Yeah, stepped attenuators are the tools of the devil. A lot of high-end amp makers have been moving away from these things lately, and I hope Woo follows suit with the WA22.


 
  
 Unless you are using digital attenuator, the low level imbalance with standard pots bugs the heck out of me.  I usually listen at a level low enough I do notice one side is louder than other...


----------



## jc9394

badas said:


> I will never use a manual volume control. I sit to far away plus my chair is to comfortable. So remote volume is a must.
> I always planned to use the Oppo HA-1 as the volume control.
> Oppo specs say the output is 4.6 ± 0.3 Vrms for XLR.
> So I guess as long as I don't hit full volume on the Oppo the Woo will be fine.
> At the moment I have Woo set on 2/3's power low gain. Oppo volume gets controlled between 0 and 3/4's power also low gain.


 
  
  
 When I had the WA22, I usually set it around 60% and use PWD to control the volume.  Just like you, I have a very comfortable listen chair that I do not feel like get up just to change the volume once a while.


----------



## Stereolab42

For old time's sake here is an inside picture of my WA22 that I took last week. Got to admire the beautiful simplicity of the wiring:


----------



## Silent One

No steps here. The Alps volume pot on my 'Pre' is down right _buttery..._love turning the bad boy!


----------



## jc9394

stereolab42 said:


> For old time's sake here is an inside picture of my WA22 that I took last week. Got to admire the beautiful simplicity of the wiring:


 
  
  
 I missed this bad boy...


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> No steps here. The Alps volume pot on my 'Pre' is down right _buttery..._love turning the bad boy!


 
  
 I would love to see a delta1 on a WA5...
  
 http://www.amb.org/audio/delta1/


----------



## Stereolab42

Can someone explain to the uninitiated what all those beefy extra caps actually do? Because I think I'm getting the same sort of caps in my WA5 with the upgraded parts.


----------



## Silent One

jc9394 said:


> I would love to see a delta1 on a WA5...
> 
> http://www.amb.org/audio/delta1/


 
 I guess we'll be peering inside of yours with the Delta1 in place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps, 2015?


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> Can someone explain to the uninitiated what all those beefy extra caps actually do? Because I think I'm getting the same sort of caps in my WA5 with the upgraded parts.


 
 The simplest way to explain extra caps without going into technical details would be  extra caps or high capacity caps = more sustained clean/less fluctuating current > more isolation from incoming (often dirty current) > potentially cleaner sound and also better for lower frequencies reproduction.  Others might jump in and give you more info.


----------



## jc9394

koiloco said:


> The simplest way to explain extra caps without going into technical details would be  extra caps or high capacity caps = more sustained clean/less fluctuating current > more isolation from incoming (often dirty current) > potentially cleaner sound and also better for lower frequencies reproduction.  Others might jump in and give you more info.


 
  
 Spot on, just as layman's term it has better bass extension and wider sound stage. It also will smooth out the mid range area that some people do not like.


----------



## jc9394

silent one said:


> I guess we'll be peering inside of yours with the Delta1 in place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Not sure will Jack going to able to fit it and also it is a DIY project.


----------



## Badas

On Woo's FB page:
  
 We're working on something new to show you at New York Audio Show.
  

  
 Hhhhhmmm, Looks like a portable tube amp to me. Nice.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> On Woo's FB page:
> 
> We're working on something new to show you at New York Audio Show.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would be all over that like a cheap suit.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> I would be all over that like a cheap suit.


 
  
 We are equally as excited.    We''ll have two prototypes at CanJam for everyone to see and hear.


----------



## Stereolab42

Staring at the open space on my desk at home where my WA22 used to be, trying to figure out how I'm going to fit a WA5 there. I will manage somehow. Luckily my exaSound e22's solid-state headphone jack is world-class so I'm not hurting too much in the meantime.
  
 My WA6-SE at work continues to impress me. It's simply the most fantastic tube amp you can buy for $1200. Great SQ and a dead-silent noise floor even with the cheapest eBay driver tubes (although my favorite is still the Tronix 6EM7s). And I absolutely love the build quality, it looks and feels like something far more expensive than it is. Plus it has immense amounts of power, I don't dare pull the volume knob past 1/4th on modern music on my Audeze LCD-XCs, which are not overly sensitive headphones. For someone who doesn't have a lot of patience for fussing with tubes and who doesn't want to spent a lot this is a fine endgame amp, when paired with a great DAC.


----------



## roskodan

glad to hear it's, the wa6-se, silent with the xc, cos actually i found the x quite sensitive, so if it's really dead silent with the xc than it's really an achievement
  
 hopefully the pairing with the midrange k701/712 will live up to the hype propagated by some members here on head-fi, cough, cough


----------



## Stereolab42

koiloco said:


> Gratz but I am even more sorry for your wallet now.  300Bs will cost a bit more to roll


 
  
 Ugh, you aren't kidding. The best 300Bs all seem to start at $700 a pair. I ordered my WA5 with the normal Sophia mesh plates, but I want at least one endgame pair of 300Bs. SERPs are $1200 which hurts, but on the plus side I already know I like Sophia tubes. It seems a lot of people like the EML 300B mesh, which are a more reasonable $800. Of course I can also order these:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-Matched-Pair-or-Matched-Quad-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/221541702450?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3394ea1b32
  
 (Or not.)


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> Ugh, you aren't kidding. The best 300Bs all seem to start at $700 a pair. I ordered my WA5 with the normal Sophia mesh plates, but I want at least one endgame pair of 300Bs. SERPs are $1200 which hurts, but on the plus side I already know I like Sophia tubes. It seems a lot of people like the EML 300B mesh, which are a more reasonable $800. Of course I can also order these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-Matched-Pair-or-Matched-Quad-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/221541702450?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3394ea1b32
> 
> (Or not.)


 
 Holy Schiit!!!
 Thats ridiculous!


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> Ugh, you aren't kidding. The best 300Bs all seem to start at $700 a pair. I ordered my WA5 with the normal Sophia mesh plates, but I want at least one endgame pair of 300Bs. SERPs are $1200 which hurts, but on the plus side I already know I like Sophia tubes. It seems a lot of people like the EML 300B mesh, which are a more reasonable $800. Of course I can also order these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-Matched-Pair-or-Matched-Quad-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/221541702450?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3394ea1b32
> 
> (Or not.)


 
 yup! now you know...Tube pricing was one of the reasons I didn't go with the WA5 or the LE cuz I knew I couldn't justify getting top tubes for the amp to realize its full potential.


----------



## longbowbbs

Using those tubes would be like owning a $10,000 bottle of wine.....How do you decide to use them (Or drink the wine) since they are finite resources?


----------



## Silent One

To collect or enjoy? I'd strive to do both - use two and preserve two if I were sitting on a Quad set.


----------



## bbophead

silent one said:


> To collect or enjoy? I'd strive to do both - use two and preserve two if I were sitting on a Quad set.


 
 But wouldn't that be uncomfortable?


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Ugh, you aren't kidding. The best 300Bs all seem to start at $700 a pair. I ordered my WA5 with the normal Sophia mesh plates, but I want at least one endgame pair of 300Bs. SERPs are $1200 which hurts, but on the plus side I already know I like Sophia tubes. It seems a lot of people like the EML 300B mesh, which are a more reasonable $800. Of course I can also order these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Western-Electric-300B-Tubes-Matched-Pair-or-Matched-Quad-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/221541702450?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3394ea1b32
> 
> (Or not.)


 
  
 I am in a similar position with my WA5 and 300Bs. I am burning in a set of SERPs right now (have about 100 hours on them).
  
 They are a big step up from SEP 300Bs, more detail, more soundstage and lot more extension at both ends (particularly the bass). I'm not sure they are worth the $1200 asking price, however they certainly sound good in my WA5.
  
 I have not tried the EML 300Bs - I was tempted, but the relatively poor performance of the EML 274B mesh rectifier put me off. It is a decent tube, but to my ears it is clearly outperformed by a 1960s Mullard GZ32 costing around $80 and about half the size (important in the WA6 where space is at a premium). That really isn't good enough for a new production tube costing around $270 IMHO. That makes me think twice about going for the EML 300Bs.
  
 Any WA5 owners out there who have tried both the SERPs and the EML 300Bs that can give some insight?
  
 I am having some success with the Pavane new production tubes. Running the T2 grey bottle CV181s (really 6SN7s) in my WA5 and WA6. After several bad experiences with NOS driver tubes these are performing very well. Burning in some Pavane WE274B replicas now - only about 60 hours on them - but so far these are also performing well in both my WA5 and WA6. That led me to take a leap for the Pavane WE300B replicas. I don't expect the replicas to duplicate the sound of the vintage WE300B, but I am hoping for a decent sounding tube that gives a taste of the mid-range WE magic that audiophiles rave about.


----------



## Stereolab42

Tony, I did some searches on this thread and among the positive votes, also saw multiple complaints that the EML 300B meshes lack bass. Of course there are lots of complaints elsewhere that the NOS WE 300Bs lack bass and treble, so I don't know what to think. Darn 300Bs are expensive enough I can't just half-ass things and order multiple pairs and hope to score a bullseye, like I can for 6SN7s or even rectifiers. I need to get it right the first time, sigh.


----------



## Stereolab42

bbophead said:


> But wouldn't that be uncomfortable?


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Tony, I did some searches on this thread and among the positive votes, also saw multiple complaints that the EML 300B meshes lack bass. Of course there are lots of complaints elsewhere that the NOS WE 300Bs lack bass and treble, so I don't know what to think. Darn 300Bs are expensive enough I can't just half-ass things and order multiple pairs and hope to score a bullseye, like I can for 6SN7s or even rectifiers. I need to get it right the first time, sigh.


 
  
 I hear you. Trial and error is bad enough with driver tubes and rectifiers - with flagship 300Bs it is prohibitively expensive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The SERPs and Psvane WE300B replicas will be my last 300B purchases for a long time (I hope) so I tried hard to make the best choices I could. There are not that many options out there for 300B new production tubes.
  
 I thought about the Takatsuki 300Bs, but the high price and difficulty in obtaining them put me off.
  
 I thought about the EML 300Bs, but my EML 274B mesh experience put me off.
  
 That left only the SERPs and Psvane WE300B replicas.


----------



## Stereolab42

I decided to go with SERPs as my endgame 300Bs. Sophia has great customer service (they just responded to an email on a Saturday) and I'm already a fan of their other tubes. I will probably alternate the SERPs with the regular Princess meshes just to keep tube replacement cost down long-term, unless there is a massive difference in SQ.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> ... I will probably alternate the SERPs with the regular Princess meshes just to keep tube replacement cost down long-term, unless there is a massive difference in SQ.


 
  
 It's a subjective thing, and everyone's ears and setup are different, but for me the difference in SQ between the regular SEP 300Bs and SERP 300Bs would be somewhere around the "substantial / very large" mark. It is immediately noticeable to me when I swap between the SEPs and SERPs - not a subtle difference at all.
  
 You might find it hard to go back to the SEPs after hearing what the SERPs can do. I know I do.


----------



## kazsud

Has anyone heard both the base Wa5 and Wa5 w/ premium parts upgrade?


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> I am in a similar position with my WA5 and 300Bs. I am burning in a set of SERPs right now (have about 100 hours on them).
> 
> They are a big step up from SEP 300Bs, more detail, more soundstage and lot more extension at both ends (particularly the bass). I'm not sure they are worth the $1200 asking price, however they certainly sound good in my WA5.
> 
> ...


 
 Tony,
 Let us know you opinion of the Psvane WE300B replicas after you get them please.


----------



## Khragon

kazsud said:


> Has anyone heard both the base Wa5 and Wa5 w/ premium parts upgrade?




Same question here.. Anyone experienced both care to comment?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tonynewman said:


> I am in a similar position with my WA5 and 300Bs. I am burning in a set of SERPs right now (have about 100 hours on them).
> 
> They are a big step up from SEP 300Bs, more detail, more soundstage and lot more extension at both ends (particularly the bass). I'm not sure they are worth the $1200 asking price, however they certainly sound good in my WA5.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i have no problems with EML 300B in my WA5, but im sure there are certainly better tubes nout there.. not sure how the more expensive $1200 SERPs compare. I too feel that the EML 274B offers decent quality but lackluster performance when compared to NOS Tubes of similar pricing.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> Tony,
> Let us know you opinion of the Psvane WE300B replicas after you get them please.


 
  
 Will do. I will complete putting 300 hours in the SERPs, then put the Psvanes in for 300 hours. That's going to take quite a few weeks.
  
 There are comments out there from folks slagging the Psvanes after 50 or so hours of use - that is not giving these tubes a fair chance - they need lots of burn in to settle down.


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> Will do. I will complete putting 300 hours in the SERPs, then put the Psvanes in for 300 hours. *That's going to take quite a few weeks.*
> 
> There are comments out there from folks slagging the Psvanes after 50 or so hours of use - that is not giving these tubes a fair chance - they need lots of burn in to settle down.


 
 I'm guessing we're not neighbors!


----------



## Stereolab42

The new Woo portable amp will be called... surprise surprise... the *WA8* according to the RMAF web page. I wonder if it will be a pure amp or contain a DAC as well, hopefully usable with OTG cables from a smartphone like the FiiO e18 can.


----------



## Stereolab42

BTW if anyone has a hookup on a tube tester drop me a PM. There are a bunch of Hickoks on fleabay but I have no clue how to judge their condition and if they can properly test the type of tubes used by Woos (directly heated and indirectly heated, etc.)


----------



## Silent One

http://tubesound.com/contact/


----------



## Stereolab42

silent one said:


> http://tubesound.com/contact/


 
  
 Thanks Silent, that guy is very helpful. I also contacted a company that makes new testers, but their units don't test rectifiers, only driver/power tubes. He claimed rectifiers either "work" or they "don't work", and there is no in-between, thus no need for testing. That seems like spin to me, right? Surely they degrade gracefully like any other type of tube?


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> Thanks Silent, that guy is very helpful. I also contacted a company that makes new testers, but their units don't test rectifiers, only driver/power tubes. *He claimed rectifiers either "work" or they "don't work", and there is no in-between*, thus no need for testing. That seems like spin to me, right? Surely they degrade gracefully like any other type of tube?


 
  
 In my experience and technical understanding, he's correct.


----------



## Silent One

There is a way to test them but I cannot recall. I believe it was something I researched, along with others, back in 2011. I had wanted to test _The Mighty 596. _


----------



## Stereolab42

silent one said:


> There is a way to test them but I cannot recall. I believe it was something I researched, along with others, back in 2011. I had wanted to test _The Mighty 596. _


 
  
 OK, apparently on rectifiers you just test for shorts and emissions, on preamp tubes you add Gm (mutual conductance). Makes sense. If you see a weak emissions result compared to a known-good rectifier tube, that would be a sign it's getting old then.


----------



## Stereolab42

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161405293349
  
 Gonna be fun to play with this while I wait for my WA5 to arrive. Seems expensive until you consider the cost of a typical 300B amp tube collection... and this is only going to go up in value as the years go by. Seller seems very reliable, and reconditioned/replaced all of the internal parts recently. Now I have to figure out how to actually use the damn thing without blowing stuff up.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/161405293349
> 
> 
> Gonna be fun to play with this while I wait for my WA5 to arrive. Seems expensive until you consider the cost of a typical 300B amp tube collection... and this is only going to go up in value as the years go by. Seller seems very reliable, and reconditioned/replaced all of the internal parts recently. Now I have to figure out how to actually use the damn thing without blowing stuff up.




Good score. Well done. I have thought about a tester then decided against it. Just to much to learn.

A bit of a cebration today. I'm now totally NOS. My final piece of the puzzle came today. NOS driver tubes.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

If you wanna spend pretty pennies on a tester, should just go for this:
  
 http://www.amplitrex.com/about.html (Amplitrex AT1000)
  
 I got my Jackson 648A tester from a swap meet for $75, deoxit a few internal parts and replaced a few wires.  Bought several tubes from FleaBay and the tester seemed to match the advertised measurements decently well.  It doesn't give micromhos reading but tube measurements are all about relative anyway so no biggie.


----------



## Stereolab42

sko0bydoo said:


> If you wanna spend pretty pennies on a tester, should just go for this:
> 
> http://www.amplitrex.com/about.html (Amplitrex AT1000)
> 
> I got my Jackson 648A tester from a swap meet for $75, deoxit a few internal parts and replaced a few wires.  Bought several tubes from FleaBay and the tester seemed to match the advertised measurements decently well.  It doesn't give micromhos reading but tube measurements are all about relative anyway so no biggie.


 
  
 Heh, I did look at the Amplitrex but for three grand it's more than the cost of even the most expensive classic tester. Plus it's got firmware and who know what complex solid-state parts, if they ever go out of business you've basically got an expensive doorstep on your hands. Whereas these classic testers are simple enough machines they can be indefinitely maintained by those reasonably experienced in electronics.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

stereolab42 said:


> Heh, I did look at the Amplitrex but for three grand it's more than the cost of even the most expensive classic tester. Plus it's got firmware and who know what complex solid-state parts, if they ever go out of business you've basically got an expensive doorstep on your hands. Whereas these classic testers are simple enough machines they can be indefinitely maintained by those reasonably experienced in electronics.


 
  
  
 That's true, I stand with you on the old-schools-are-better-than-new-schools...
 Those Hickoks are nice, but too much $$ for me.  I would rather just buy one WE300b


----------



## punit

The one thing I don't like about WA22 is the XLR sockets (both back & front), they do not lock, they just slide in & out, feels flimsy. All the good quality (& even some low quality) HP amps have locking XLR sockets. Gives such a nice , solid feel when you hear that click as you plug in the cables.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> The one thing I don't like about WA22 is the XLR sockets (both back & front), they do not lock, they just slide in & out, feels flimsy. All the good quality (& even some low quality) HP amps have locking XLR sockets. Gives such a nice , solid feel when you hear that click as you plug in the cables.




There can be one advantage to the headphones not locking in tho. If someone walks pass and trips on ya headphone cord it just gets pulled out. If it was locked you would or could have a smashed Woo on the floor.  It hasn't happened to me yet. However had a few close calls. I prefer it doesn't lock. Just my opinion.


----------



## punit

In that case the HP's will fly off your head before the WA22 falls on the floor. It is a heavy amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But yeah the cable may get damaged in the process.
  
 That's why I cordon off the area around me with Police Tape when listening


----------



## Stereolab42

punit said:


> In that case the HP's will fly off your head before the WA22 falls on the floor. It is a heavy amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If your cable gets wrapped around a desk chair arm or a dog then nope, that Woo is heading to its demise. That's why locking headphone cables are a terrible idea.


----------



## punit

I sit 3 feet from the amp on my sofa & don't have pets so never faced these problems. But yes, I get your point for people who have pets & / or sit at a distance from the amp.


----------



## punit

I wanted to see which combination of NOS tubes from amongst my collection give me decent sound at the cheapest cost on the WA22. Well the winner is :
  

  
 Chatham 5R4WGB ($ 10) + Svetlana 6N13S / 6H13C ($ 20) + TS 6SNTGT ($ 30)
  
 Nothing wow but decent "listenable" sound  @ $ 60. I have $ 16 pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTA's coming in , lets see if they can give comparable or better sound thus lowering the cost for decent sound.
  
 Do you guys have any such low cost, decent sound NOS combo's ?


----------



## TonyNewman

punit said:


> Do you guys have any such low cost, decent sound NOS combo's ?


 
  
 (apologies for wandering a little off topic in this reply).
  
 I just did some mental maths on how many WA22 amps I could buy for what I have spent on 300B tubes for my WA5. The answer is close to '2'.
  
 I love the sound of the WA5, but high end 300Bs are bat****crazy expensive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To get back on topic, the only real NOS bargain I have found is the Mullard GZ32 rectifier. This gem sells for around 80-90 bucks (cheap by 274B standards), and sounds excellent.
  
 To my ears it kills the Sophia Princess ($160) and EML Mesh ($270).


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> I wanted to see which combination of NOS tubes from amongst my collection give me decent sound at the cheapest cost on the WA22. Well the winner is :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What a fantastic idea. It gives those guys who have just got a Woo a start point without breaking the bank.
  
 Quote:


tonynewman said:


> (apologies for wandering a little off topic in this reply).
> 
> I just did some mental maths on how many WA22 amps I could buy for what I have spent on 300B tubes for my WA5. The answer is close to '2'.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah the Mullard GZ32 is Gold. Made the biggest difference to my setup so far. I have two. Using one and have one as spare. I need to pick up another 4. Will do soon.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yeah the Mullard GZ32 is Gold. Made the biggest difference to my setup so far. I have two. Using one and have one as spare. I need to pick up another 4. Will do soon.


 
  
 Don't delay would be my suggestion. I bought my first 2 a month or so ago @ $80. I ordered another 2 last week and the price had jumped to $90.
  
 Looks like the word is getting out on how good the GZ32 is.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> I wanted to see which combination of NOS tubes from amongst my collection give me decent sound at the cheapest cost on the WA22. Well the winner is :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are you saying you have 16 pairs Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's, and you paid $60.00 for them?


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> Are you saying you have 16 pairs Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's, and you paid $60.00 for them?


 
  
  
 Think he meant the above pictured combination sounds good at $60 total.  Then he has a pair of Sylvania's that he spent $16 on to get.  At least that is what I got, he could have bought 16 groundhogs.


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> ... he could have bought 16 groundhogs.


 
  
 Octal groundhogs, or do you need an adapter?


----------



## TonyNewman

Just had my first tube blow. A Psvane CV181 went bye bye in style - series of loud bangs, some smoke, and the tube is history.
  
 I took the cover off the bottom of the WA5 amp unit - no damage as best I can tell. Sound is unaffected and no components look fried. Fortunately my SERPs also appear + sound undamaged. Rather scary moment. Wrecked amp + SERPs would be expensive (even if the warranty on both items was honored, that would be quite a hassle from New Zealand).
  
 Anyone else out there had a tube die with some dramatics?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Just had my first tube blow. A Psvane CV181 went bye bye in style - series of loud bangs, some smoke, and the tube is history.
> 
> I took the cover off the bottom of the WA5 amp unit - no damage as best I can tell. Sound is unaffected and no components look fried. Fortunately my SERPs also appear + sound undamaged. Rather scary moment. Wrecked amp + SERPs would be expensive (even if the warranty on both items was honored, that would be quite a hassle from New Zealand).
> 
> Anyone else out there had a tube die with some dramatics?


 
  
 Yoooowch. That doesn't sound fun (excuse the pun). Sorry for you. I know you were super excited about the Psvane. Glad to hear none of your equipment is damaged tho.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Just had my first tube blow. A Psvane CV181 went bye bye in style - series of loud bangs, some smoke, and the tube is history.
> 
> I took the cover off the bottom of the WA5 amp unit - no damage as best I can tell. Sound is unaffected and no components look fried. Fortunately my SERPs also appear + sound undamaged. Rather scary moment. Wrecked amp + SERPs would be expensive (even if the warranty on both items was honored, that would be quite a hassle from New Zealand).
> 
> Anyone else out there had a tube die with some dramatics?


 

 Use Nos 6SN7s in the future


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Use Nos 6SN7s in the future


 
  
 And play the game of decreasing availability and increasing cost. I have several sets of NOS 6SN7s and have found the price to performance ratio unimpressive for almost all of them.
  
 For this hobby to have a future new production tubes have to have a place, otherwise we are eventually going to be paying vintage WE300B prices for NOS 6SN7s.
  
 I am writing this one off as bad luck and will be using my WA6 for burning in new 6SN7s in future.


----------



## bbophead

tonynewman said:


> I am writing this one off as bad luck and will be using my WA6 for burning in new 6SN7s in future.


 
 Oh, not the WA6!!!!!


----------



## TonyNewman

bbophead said:


> Oh, not the WA6!!!!!


 
 A blown up WA6 is unfortunate. A blown up WA5 is a tradgedy


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> A blown up WA6 is unfortunate. A blown up WA5 is a tradgedy


 
  
 Agreed. Makes sense. Love to see your setup mate.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> Think he meant the above pictured combination sounds good at $60 total.  Then he has a pair of Sylvania's that he spent $16 on to get.  At least that is what I got, he could have bought 16 groundhogs.


 

 Hmm, thats quite cheap for some 6SN7WGTA's if thats what he's saying.
 I wonder how much groundhogs are going for these days.


----------



## thecourier

How much do you guys know about the WA8 prototype?


----------



## roskodan

looks like there will be impressions from the #*NYaudioShow* soon enough Woo Audio / Woo Audio


----------



## thecourier

Yeah, i saw a pic from part time audiophile. Seems interesting, will wait for any updates. 
 Thanks @roskodan


----------



## Badas

My WA22 high gain / low gain doesn't seem to work.

If I have the volume set half way playing music and I switch from high to low should there be a difference in volume?

On mine it is exactly the same level.:confused_face_2:


----------



## roskodan

yup, guess that' the 3d printed prototype
  
 Quote: https://www.facebook.com/parttime.audiophile/posts/495451670590728


> Woo Audio WA8 portable 32bit DAC/amp. Builds on the Fireflies DAC section, with tubes (bitty little Russian ones) and battery. Price is TBD, but should be under $2k. Metalwork ready by CanJam! Thanks, New York Audio Show!


----------



## roskodan

badas said:


> My WA22 high gain / low gain doesn't seem to work.
> 
> If I have the volume set half way playing music and I switch from high to low should there be a difference in volume?
> 
> On mine it is exactly the same level.


 

 it's an output impedance switch not a gain selector


----------



## Badas

roskodan said:


> it's an output impedance switch not a gain selector




Okay. Whew. I'm new to my Woo. I was getting worried. I didn't want it repaired all ready. 

So my headphones are Audeze LCD 3's pre fazor. Do I put on high or low?


----------



## roskodan

up your preference which sound better to you


----------



## punit

Quote:


tonynewman said:


> (apologies for wandering a little off topic in this reply).
> 
> I just did some mental maths on how many WA22 amps I could buy for what I have spent on 300B tubes for my WA5. The answer is close to '2'.
> 
> I love the sound of the WA5, but high end 300Bs are bat****crazy expensive.


 
  Yeah, guess the term Budget 300B is an oxymoron
  
 Quote:


joseph69 said:


> Are you saying you have 16 pairs Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's, and you paid $60.00 for them?


 
  
 What i meant was the above combination in the pic cost me $ 60 & gives decent sound. I have a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's coming in for which I paid $ 16. I will substitute the Sylv's for the TS in the above combination & If I still get similar decent sound then the  cost of a tube combo which gives decent sound on the WA22 will fall from $ 60 to $ 46.


----------



## punit

badas said:


> Okay. Whew. I'm new to my Woo. I was getting worried. I didn't want it repaired all ready.
> 
> So my headphones are Audeze LCD 3's pre fazor. Do I put on high or low?


 

 Badas,
  
 Typically HP's with impedance of 300 ohm & above (HP's like Senn HD 600 / 650 / 700 / 800, Beyer T90 / T1) are meant to give better sound with high impd setting. Whereas HP with impd lower than that (Audeze's , TH 600 / 900 ) will sound better with low impd setting. But this is not a hard & fast rule try both & see which one you like.
  
 With my XC / TH 900 the the HP's become very loud with only a small turn of the dial on High impd setting & I get very little play with the volume control hence I prefer using the low impd setting. Sound is similar on both settings IMO for the XC / TH 900.


----------



## roskodan

punit said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Okay. Whew. I'm new to my Woo. I was getting worried. I didn't want it repaired all ready.
> ...


 

 so it is a gain selector? not a output impedance setting?


----------



## punit

It is supposed to be an Impedance matching switch (to the best of my knowledge) but strangely acts as a Gain selector for some low impd HP's (i.e SQ is similar in both settings but gain level differs). I have not tried High impd HP's on low impd setting. Will try my HD 800 & T1 on both settings today & report back.


----------



## roskodan

np, guess there will be a slightly difference in power, more noticeable with high sensitivity cans, just wanted to know about the function since woo audio is pretty vague about its specification, and i'm quite curious what the actual values are?


----------



## Badas

I've just conducted a big test. I found low had a very slight edge. Soundstage was a tad more realistic, just slightly mellowed any tiny bit less harsh. No difference in volume using Audeze.

System is still too bright for my taste. I have the RCA smoked glass drivers coming soon. I hope that rolls the treble a bit. Starting to think that the Oppo HA-1 is the issue tho. Might have to change the DAC. 

Will the treble change much with age? All my tubes are very young. Less than 10 hours.


----------



## daverich4

punit said:


> It is supposed to be an Impedance matching switch (to the best of my knowledge) but strangely acts as a Gain selector for some low impd HP's (i.e SQ is similar in both settings but gain level differs). I have not tried High impd HP's on low impd setting. Will try my HD 800 & T1 on both settings today & report back.


 

 I get a significant increase in volume between the low and high settings with my HD800's.


----------



## roskodan

well i guess the difference between low and high Z out levels vary substantially with different tubes


----------



## Sergelisses

Hello
 I have a Wa6 like the picture ( above ) and i would like to modify it  like this :
  

  
 Does someone has a shema with the modifications ?
  
 Thank you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Serge


----------



## roskodan

woo audio made such upgrades in the past (or was it just for the wa6-se?) so you should drop them an email, and report back


----------



## punit

badas said:


> System is still too bright for my taste. I have the RCA smoked glass drivers coming soon. I hope that rolls the treble a bit. Starting to think that the Oppo HA-1 is the issue tho. Might have to change the DAC.
> 
> Will the treble change much with age? All my tubes are very young. Less than 10 hours.


 
 What tubes are you currently using ? Some of my tubes had sharp treble which disappeared out after about 70-100 hrs of burn in.


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> Quote:
> 
> What i meant was the above combination in the pic cost me $ 60 & gives decent sound. I have a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's coming in for which I paid $ 16. I will substitute the Sylv's for the TS in the above combination & If I still get similar decent sound then the  cost of a tube combo which gives decent sound on the WA22 will fall from $ 60 to $ 46.


 

 If you don't mind me asking, where did you pick up Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's for $16.00???
 I've paid quite a bit more for the 6SN7's I have, and would be very interested in more at this price.
 Thanks


----------



## punit

On ebay. Won an auction. If you look hard enough  you should get them for around $ 20 (or less with a little bit of luck & patience). I just did a search & found one for $ 25.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-6sn7-gta-Rectifier-Tubes-Matched-Structure-Strong-Pair-/291244274422?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43cf82f2f6


----------



## joseph69

punit said:


> On ebay. Won an auction. If you look hard enough  you should get them for around $ 20 (or less with a little bit of luck & patience). I just did a search & found one for $ 25.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-6sn7-gta-Rectifier-Tubes-Matched-Structure-Strong-Pair-/291244274422?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43cf82f2f6


 

 WOW!
 Thanks for the link…I can't believe the price for these tubes.
 I personally love these these tubes with my WA6.


----------



## joseph69

I checked the going prices on eBay for the Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's, and the prices sure did drop quite a bit compared to about 4-5 months ago…I paid top $ for most of mine and I've got 6 pairs, and don't need anymore…too bad for me, but it seems it's a good time to buy for those who are interested.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> What tubes are you currently using ? Some of my tubes had sharp treble which disappeared out after about 70-100 hrs of burn in.


 

 I'm using the Mullard GZ32 rectifier. Nice big difference when I switched that out.
  
 The Tung Sol 7236 from Woo for power tubes. I didn't notice any sound change just extra volume. Also have the Svetlana 6N13s coming.
  
 and Sylvania 6SN7GTB's as driver tubes. Also have some RCA USA 6SN7GT smoked coming.
  
 The current tubes sound is close. Very close. Just a tad too bright. I like the bass and mid range just the treble gets a bit high and makes me cringe. I'm going to experiment a bit with DAC's. I tried a Arcam DAC and liked it a lot more than my Oppo HA-1.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I'm using the Mullard GZ32 rectifier. Nice big difference when I switched that out.
> 
> The Tung Sol 7236 from Woo for power tubes. I didn't notice any sound change just extra volume. Also have the Svetlana 6N13s coming.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just a suggestion - if you are wanting to change the tonality to something darker I would stick with tube rolling rather than changing DACs. I have found the *tonality *differences between DACs (bright or dark) to be very subtle compared to tubes. You have heard what a difference the GZ32 makes - a similar step change in driver and/or power tubes is more likely to get you the result you want than a change in DAC.
  
 If you are wanting to improve detail, soundstage, extension ... etc, then by all means look at a DAC upgrade.
  
 I'm glad you like the GZ32. I'm a big fan of these sweet tubes. Thanks again to DubStepGirl for getting the word out in the rectifier thread.
  
 As always, this is just my 2 cents and YMMV


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Just a suggestion - if you are wanting to change the tonality to something darker I would stick with tube rolling rather than changing DACs. I have found the *tonality *differences between DACs (bright or dark) to be very subtle compared to tubes. You have heard what a difference the GZ32 makes - a similar step change in driver and/or power tubes is more likely to get you the result you want than a change in DAC.


 

 Okay. Excellent.
  
 Maybe I'm being a bit impatient. I've been told that the RCA 6SN7GT smoked will tone it down a bit. Probably all I need. I will roll to those as soon as they arrive. Plus everything is young. Amp and tubes. So I will let things settle before making any hardware moves.
  


tonynewman said:


> If you are wanting to improve detail, soundstage, extension ... etc, then by all means look at a DAC upgrade.


 
  
 Nope. I'm not looking at any of those things. Just rolling off the treble a bit. That's all.
  


tonynewman said:


> I'm glad you like the GZ32. I'm a big fan of these sweet tubes. Thanks again to DubStepGirl for getting the word out in the rectifier thread.


 
  
 Absolutely. What a big difference that made. One of the best recommendations this year. Thank you DubStepGirl.
  
 Thanks TonyNewman for the advice.


----------



## TonyNewman

One other factor to take into account is burn in. Both amps and tubes will change their sound over the first 50 to 300 hours. My Taurus amp was bright for about 150 hours before it mellowed out. Some of my tubes need 300 hours to reach stability. That is a lot of hours for a tube amp - it can takes several weeks to fully burn in some items.
  
 I would give any tube at least 50 hours before reaching any sort of judgement on it. I have had tubes that were muddy and microphonic and just plain awful for the first 50+ hours, and then opened up into something nice.
  
 I have about 200 hours on my SERP 300B power tubes and they are still improving.


----------



## roskodan

was reluctant to get the gz32 (beside the Miniwatt DD gz34 metal base and the Philips 5R4GYS i already have), but since you all making such a fuss about it, i guess i could puke 75 bucks shipped for a 50s Philips Holland 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for my wa6-se ???


----------



## Stereolab42

This seller seems to have a crapload:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GZ32-CV593-TUBES-NOS-/360172677862?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53dbf6eae6
  
 Is that the right one?


----------



## bonesnv

roskodan said:


> was reluctant to get the gz32 (beside the Miniwatt DD gz34 metal base and the Philips 5R4GYS i already have), but since you all making such a fuss about it, i guess i could puke 75 bucks shipped for a 50s Philips Holland
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Just make sure to get the GZ32 that is marked CV593, those are the NOS baby U52's.  You can find them anywhere from $50 to $90 depending on how good you are at looking for them, Upscale I know has/had a reasonable stock of them and they aren't all that rare if you look around.  I am sure the prices will go up like most of the tubes as soon as they become popular and people start gouging.
  
 Wish I could find a metal base GZ34 but you have people selling them for nearly $800, which is utterly insane for a single rectifier tube by my standards.  Then again the WE274B goes for a nice $1200+ for a single, although one was up a few months back that sold for $630, almost considered it just for the resale value.


----------



## bonesnv

stereolab42 said:


> This seller seems to have a crapload:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GZ32-CV593-TUBES-NOS-/360172677862?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53dbf6eae6
> 
> Is that the right one?


 
  
 Yes, but you can find it cheaper.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> This seller seems to have a crapload:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GZ32-CV593-TUBES-NOS-/360172677862?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53dbf6eae6
> 
> Is that the right one?


 

 Yip. Thats them. Cheaper from Upscale Audio tho.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> Yip. Thats them. Cheaper from Upscale Audio tho.


 
  
 Oh yeah, Upscale does have them. I am once again poorer. I think this marks my last rectifier purchase, I've got pretty much everything that's feasible (including 596 and RK60). Need one or two more pairs of 6SN7s to play around with, and maybe another type of high-end 300B long-term, and I am done.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Oh yeah, Upscale does have them. I am once again poorer. I think this marks my last rectifier purchase, I've got pretty much everything that's feasible (including 596 and RK60). Need one or two more pairs of 6SN7s to play around with, and maybe another type of high-end 300B long-term, and I am done.


 

 Good score. Yeah I think I'm set for Rectifiers as well. Just picked up a couple of 5AW4's that Glenn has been talking about. They are suppose to be great.


----------



## joseph69

roskodan said:


> was reluctant to get the gz32 (beside the Miniwatt DD gz34 metal base and the Philips 5R4GYS i already have), but since you all making such a fuss about it, i guess i could puke 75 bucks shipped for a 50s Philips Holland
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I owned a the Mullard GZ32, and paid $80.00 for it at the time, and thought it was a very detailed tube with good clarity and separation but lacked a bit of warmth…but was well worth the $ compared to some rectifier tubes out there.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> I owned a the Mullard GZ32, and paid $80.00 for it at the time, and thought it was a very detailed tube with good clarity and separation but lacked a bit of warmth…but was well worth the $ compared to some rectifier tubes out there.


 
  
 That's odd. I am getting everything that you mentioned AND the warmth. It's why I rave about them so much - the GZ32 covers pretty much all the sonic bases for me.
  
 I have only tried 2 GZ32s and both have been winners. I have 2 more that I am yet to burn in - they might be different (but I hope not).


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> That's odd. I am getting everything that you mentioned AND the warmth. It's why I rave about them so much - the GZ32 covers pretty much all the sonic bases for me.
> 
> I have only tried 2 GZ32s and both have been winners. I have 2 more that I am yet to burn in - they might be different (but I hope not).


 

  I should have mentioned at the time I was comparing it to the S/P Princess, which IMO was a much warmer sounding tube.


----------



## TonyNewman

Question for the WA5/WA5LE owners out there - has anyone compared the EAT 300B and EML 300B-XLS?
  
 I am told they are very similar sonically and materially (perhaps even manufactured by the same folks)?
  
 I am picking up a pair of EAT 300Bs next week to try. I also have an eye on a pair of EML 300B XLS, but if they are very similar in sound to the EATs I might save my cash.
  
 Appreciate any info.


----------



## bbophead

I envy your deep pockets.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Seriously.


----------



## TonyNewman

bbophead said:


> I envy your deep pockets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I sold my house and split up with my girlfriend - no mortgage or female to drain my dollars - it's a good life (mostly)


----------



## roskodan

dang, i should have sold her house too before leaving


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I sold my house and split up with my girlfriend - no mortgage or female to drain my dollars - it's a good life (mostly)


 

 Ya got that kinda wrong. Ya should have sold the house and the girlfriend. Then ya might have been able to get this.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> I sold my house and split up with my girlfriend - no mortgage or female to drain my dollars - it's a good life (mostly) :wink_face:


Your giving me ideas Tony.


----------



## roskodan

unfortunately those kind of 'things' sell by themselves first
  


bonesnv said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > was reluctant to get the gz32 (beside the Miniwatt DD gz34 metal base and the Philips 5R4GYS i already have), but since you all making such a fuss about it, i guess i could puke 75 bucks shipped for a 50s Philips Holland
> ...


 
  
 what about these?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/130850212618


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Ya got that kinda wrong. Ya should have sold the house and the girlfriend. Then ya might have been able to get this.


 
  
 I tried - she was only worth a pair of these:
  

  
 Not that I'm bitter or anything...


----------



## bpcans

badas said:


> Ya got that kinda wrong. Ya should have sold the house and the girlfriend. Then ya might have been able to get this. :wink_face:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


My girlfriend informs me that there are laws against white slavery. BTW what are those tube driven beauties that I have to sell my house to get, and oh, where am I going to live?


----------



## bonesnv

Not sure if that is the right one or not, maybe Glenn or someone else can comment.   Looking at the tube itself though, doesn't look to have the same layout as the CV593 internally.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> My girlfriend informs me that there are laws against white slavery. BTW what are those tube driven beauties that I have to sell my house to get, and oh, where am I going to live?


 
  
 The Woo WA234 monobloc headphone amp. Yours for only $15,900 USD.


----------



## roskodan

bonesnv said:


> Not sure if that is the right one or not, maybe Glenn or someone else can comment.   Looking at the tube itself though, doesn't look to have the same layout as the CV593 internally.


 

 yup it's different, has less wires inside 
  
 i'm asking cos maybe someone here got one of this and can enlighten us about what's like http://www.ebay.com/itm/130850212618


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The Woo WA234 monobloc headphone amp. Yours for only $15,900 USD.


 

 I've never understood this one.
  
 Is it $15,900 for one monoblock (So you would need 2 for headphones). Or is it $15,900 for two monoblock amps. Not that I'm in the market or anything.


----------



## Badas

roskodan said:


> yup it's different, has less wires inside
> 
> i'm asking cos maybe someone here got one of this and can enlighten us about what's like http://www.ebay.com/itm/130850212618


 

 Yeah. It looks interesting.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> The Woo WA234 monobloc headphone amp. Yours for only $15,900 USD.


Is that all? I'll take two. I suppose you've got to have something between the amp and the wall to cleanup the power signal too? That's a lot of coin just to listen to old recordings The Eagles.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> I've never understood this one.
> 
> Is it $15,900 for one monoblock (So you would need 2 for headphones). Or is it $15,900 for two monoblock amps. Not that I'm in the market or anything.


 
  
 For the pair. Plus you'll need a good preamp since it would be annoying to have to turn the knobs on both monoblocks the same distance every time you want to change the volume, lol. I wouldn't budget anything less than three grand for the preamp since you don't want to take any chance of that degrading the SQ, being an extra component in the chain.


----------



## bbophead

Now the picture is becoming clearer.
  
 You hate taking chances.


----------



## Badas

I dunno if this has been asked? Sorry if it has. Is there anyway to rotate the white tube sockets on the WA22 so that the tubes have the writing facing forward?


----------



## roskodan

dang, that brown base is a punch in the eye on that black woo (sorry i'm just jealous)


----------



## roskodan

badas said:


> I dunno if this has been asked? Sorry if it has. Is there anyway to rotate the white tube sockets on the WA22 so that the tubes have the writing facing forward?


 
 no, unless you are willing to open it up and rewire the socket, or get an extension enabling that


----------



## Badas

roskodan said:


> no, unless you are willing to open it up and rewire the socket, or get an extension enabling that


 

 Okay. I won't be fussy then.


----------



## TonyNewman

Getting back to the original question - if anyone has any experience with EAT 300B vs EML 300B XLS on a WA5/WA5LE I would very much appreciate hearing from them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I like the sound of 300Bs, but the pricing is killer.


----------



## Stereolab42

Somebody should start a 300B rental program. Invest $10k to buy all of the top 300Bs, then charge people per-week to test them.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Somebody should start a 300B rental program. Invest $10k to buy all of the top 300Bs, then charge people per-week to test them.


 
  
 Sure - you can try my SERPs when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously - that could only work within a country with enough of a user base (the USA) - try shipping high value tubes across international borders and see how much fun you can have with customs folks. Then how do you settle disputes over broken / damaged / missing tubes? Who is liable? How do you enforce that? Gets very messy very fast.
  
 EDIT - and 10K might get you one set of vintage WE300Bs - maybe.


----------



## bonesnv

tonynewman said:


> Sure - you can try my SERPs when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There is a single on eBay for 10k, or was the other day, lol.


----------



## Stereolab42

$13,999 now for a pair:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Western-Electric-300B-Tube-NOS-NIB-Date-Code-6839-/301326367589?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4628737b65


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> There is a single on eBay for 10k, or was the other day, lol.


 
  
 Worst I have seen is a dingleberry on Ebay asking $600 for a *non-functioning *vintage WE300B.
  
 This is a tube that has no use for anything except looking at. I'd pay $20 max just for the curiosity value - but $600? That's just nuts.
  
 $600 would buy a decent set of working 300Bs. Not flagships perhaps, but decent.


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> I dunno if this has been asked? Sorry if it has. Is there anyway to rotate the white tube sockets on the WA22 so that the tubes have the writing facing forward?


 
  
  
 Really depends on the tubes themselves too, especially NOS ones.  The logo's and writing weren't always placed in the same spot on the same model tube.  The NOS tubes with those cosmetic "defects" also tend to go for a bit less too.  For example, on my ECC32's if I load them one way the writing on both tubes is facing the power supplies, swap them and the writing is on the front for at least one (left channel), the other is slightly to the side but more visible.  Then I have a TS 6F8G where the writing on the base is totally ****-eyed and sideways, but the tube is perfect.


----------



## bonesnv

tonynewman said:


> Worst I have seen is a dingleberry on Ebay asking $600 for a *non-functioning *vintage WE300B.
> 
> This is a tube that has no use for anything except looking at. I'd pay $20 max just for the curiosity value - but $600? That's just nuts.
> 
> $600 would buy a decent set of working 300Bs. Not flagships perhaps, but decent.


 
  
 Was a 422A up there a few weeks back for that didn't function and ended up selling for WAY more than I imagined it would.  It rates up there with people buying the original Western Electric boxes or packing material...seriously?  I love my tubes, but that's overboard even for my OCD.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Okay. I won't be fussy then.


 
 I feel the same way about which way my tubes face…so I wrap the bases in flat black vinyl adhesive…I know, don't ask.


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> Was a 422A up there a few weeks back for that didn't function and ended up selling for WAY more than I imagined it would.  It rates up there with people buying the original Western Electric boxes or packing material...seriously?  I love my tubes, but that's overboard even for my OCD.


 
 There is a line between 'Hobby' and 'Obsession' - to me paying big bucks for tubes that don't work or empty boxes is way over that line. If it doesn't make my system sound better then I don't want it.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I feel the same way about which way my tubes face…so I wrap the bases in flat black vinyl adhesive…I know, don't ask.


 

 It's a good idea. I have some carbon fiber looking tape that might look rad.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> It's a good idea. I have some carbon fiber looking tape that might look rad.


 
 +1


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I have about 100 hours on my WA22 + Sophia 274B + CV181-Z + TS7236 at this point. Tonight I did some comparison tests with my Mjolnir, which I love. I used my LCD-X in the comparison with both amps being fed simultaneously from a Gungnir. I'm happy to say the WA22 sounds more energetic and has much clearer instrument separation. The Mjolnir sounded muddy by comparison. Both are fantastic amps -- by no means does the Mjolnir sound muddy compared to other amps that I own, but the WA22 sounds great.
  
 I then swapped out the TS7236 for the stock JAN 6080WC *which had no burn-in at all*. The differences between the WA22 and Mjolnir disappeared for me initially but after some time on the 6080s, the WA22 pulled ahead slightly. The difference was not as dramatic as with the TS7236 though.


----------



## Stereolab42

Dat tube tester. An eBay success story, for once. Not going near those expensive tubes until I've convinced myself I know how to use this.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> Dat tube tester. An eBay success story, for once. Not going near those expensive tubes until I've convinced myself I know how to use this.


 
  
 looks like a serious piece of kit.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

in case you missed it.  WA234mono driving OMA Mini speakers with the world famous Todd Garfinkle of MA Recordings to demo the system at New York Audio Show.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

stereolab42 said:


> Dat tube tester. An eBay success story, for once. Not going near those expensive tubes until I've convinced myself I know how to use this.


 
  
 Very nice tester!  Look clean and well-kept. Congratz....


----------



## Badas

hifiguy528 said:


> in case you missed it.  WA234mono driving OMA Mini speakers with the world famous Todd Garfinkle of MA Recordings to demo the system at New York Audio Show.




Soooooooooo very nice.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> Getting back to the original question - if anyone has any experience with EAT 300B vs EML 300B XLS on a WA5/WA5LE I would very much appreciate hearing from them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have not listened to the EML 300B XLS but I have the 300B Mesh and the EAT.
 If the XLS and the Mesh share the same glass then the EAT are smaller than the XLS. Regarding sound between the EAT and the EML Mesh IMO the EAT are faster and more dynamic. I also got a pair of AVVT but I have not tried them yet.


----------



## Khragon

Put in my WA5 order.. silver, stock.  Can't wait to try it out with my Zu Audio Omen and LCD2...my wallet feel so much lighter now.


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> I have not listened to the EML 300B XLS but I have the 300B Mesh and the EAT.
> If the XLS and the Mesh share the same glass then the EAT are smaller than the XLS. Regarding sound between the EAT and the EML Mesh IMO the EAT are faster and more dynamic.* I also got a pair of AVVT but I have not tried them yet.*


----------



## bbophead

Quote: 





khragon said:


> Put in my WA5 order.. silver, stock.  Can't wait to try it out with my Zu Audio Omen and LCD2...my wallet feel so much lighter now.


 

 You're a lucky dawg.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Put in my WA5 order.. silver, stock.  Can't wait to try it out with my Zu Audio Omen and LCD2...my wallet feel so much lighter now.


 
  
 Congrats - I hope you enjoy your WA5 as much as I enjoy mine. Great amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If you don't have a HE6 (modded or unmodded) it is worth thinking about. A HE6 driven from the K1K port on the WA5 is just fantastic.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Put in my WA5 order.. silver, stock.  Can't wait to try it out with my Zu Audio Omen and LCD2...my wallet feel so much lighter now.


 
  
 Congrats. Nice combo of equipment.


----------



## Khragon

Thanks... The wait is going to be painful, soon I'll be able to experience all what I've read about 300b SET amp.


----------



## bonesnv

khragon said:


> Thanks... The wait is going to be painful, soon I'll be able to experience all what I've read about 300b SET amp.


 
  
  
 It's everything your wallet and/or spouse will hate you for.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Still going to be keeping the WA22 or are you going to end up trying to recoup some costs?


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> It's everything your wallet and/or spouse will hate you for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's the 300Bs that kill you. Rectifiers and drivers are relatively sane in pricing. High end 300Bs are around 800 USD and up.


----------



## Khragon

Yeah.. not going to get high end 300bs for a while...
  
 Sorry my signature is out dated.. I sold the WA22 a while back, so right now I'm just using the amp from DA8.


----------



## bbophead

Maybe you should take the time to update your signature?


----------



## bpcans

khragon said:


> Put in my WA5 order.. silver, stock.  Can't wait to try it out with my Zu Audio Omen and LCD2...my wallet feel so much lighter now.


Congratulations. Jack Wu must have a lovely vacation home.


----------



## Khragon

I'm sure he does, but don't think he can enjoy it much considering his traveling to audio shows.
  
 On a side notes, I've been searching but can't find internal photos of the WA234 monos.  Any one has any links?


----------



## roskodan

khragon said:


> On a side notes, I've been searching but can't find internal photos of the WA234 monos.  Any one has any links?


 
  
 here are a couple of shots from an undisclosed top secret source, view at your own risk as it may compromise your safety 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Spoiler: Warning: Top Secret Classified Documents



actually the other day i was browsing their fb galleries for hot chicks and accidentally stumbled across these, by the shape i would say that's it


----------



## bpcans

roskodan said:


> here are a couple of shots from an undisclosed top secret source, view at your own risk as it may compromise your safety
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Top Secret Classified Documents
> ...


Not being an engineer myself, just a humble enthusiast, I've got to ask what makes the WA234 so expensive? Is it the parts and materials, the amount of labour, or a combination of both? Just looking at the pics of its innards I don't believe a YouTube video could show me how to assemble it.


----------



## roskodan

bpcans said:


> Not being an engineer myself, just a humble enthusiast, I've got to ask what makes the WA234 so expensive? Is it the parts and materials, the amount of labour, or a combination of both? Just looking at the pics of its innards I don't believe a YouTube video could show me how to assemble it.


 
  
 at 60 lbs per channel, shipping perhaps? XD


----------



## Khragon

Nice.  Thanks for the photos.  I'm sure that's no the full amp, considering size and weight.. wonder how large those transformers are.


----------



## Silent One

> Not being an engineer myself, just a humble enthusiast, I've got to ask what makes the WA234 so expensive? Is it the parts and materials, the amount of labour, or a combination of both? Just looking at the pics of its innards I don't believe a YouTube video could show me how to assemble it.


 
 Transformer. They are utilizing a different design and perhaps materials. Which also lends the "Key" flexibility to run the different tubes.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

bpcans said:


> Not being an engineer myself, just a humble enthusiast, I've got to ask what makes the WA234 so expensive? Is it the parts and materials, the amount of labour, or a combination of both? Just looking at the pics of its innards I don't believe a YouTube video could show me how to assemble it.


 
  
 The 45/2A3/300b tubes, each requires different things:
  
 1.  Plate voltage 
 2.  Cathode/grid bias
 3.  Filament voltage/current
 4.  Output transformer (multiple tap-offs from a single OPT or multiple OPTs)
  
 Be able to jam all these into a single amp with a change of a key, it was pretty cool engineering.  So can't blame Jack to set the price he sets.  
  
 I think the amps also have some top notch parts: step attenuators, VCaps/Mundorfs caps, vishay resistors, etc.  But $16K is kinda hard to swallow though, regardless.


----------



## bbophead

In today's market, 16K is a nice indulgence.


----------



## TonyNewman

bbophead said:


> In today's market, 16K is a nice indulgence.


 
  
 Or a matched pair of vintage NOS WE300Bs... perhaps.


----------



## bbophead

tonynewman said:


> bbophead said:
> 
> 
> > In today's market, 16K is a nice indulgence.
> ...


 

 You have to get "lucky."


----------



## qingjingyaxuan

How does wa22 performs with lcd3?


----------



## bonesnv

Little bit of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 followed by some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 then some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ending in


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> Little bit of :atsmile:  followed by some   then some   and :basshead:  ending in




+1

I couldn't have said that better.

LCD-3 user with Oppo HA-1 and Woo WA22. Woo kicks the Oppo.


----------



## qingjingyaxuan

Is this an upgrade tube for wa22? so many kind of 6sn7gt tubes, do not know what is the difference.....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-SYLVANIA-6SN7GT-Matched-Pair-Tubes-Original-Boxes-/261609535079?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ce924b667


----------



## Badas

qingjingyaxuan said:


> Is this an upgrade tube for wa22? so many kind of 6sn7gt tubes, do not know what is the difference.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-SYLVANIA-6SN7GT-Matched-Pair-Tubes-Original-Boxes-/261609535079?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ce924b667


 
  
 Not sure about the base on those. Fairly sure the white bit pulls away to expose the pins, but I have been meaning to find out about those.
  
 I tried the Sylvania 6SN7GT (mine were chrome top) and altho I found a tiny improvement they were very similar to the stock WA22 tubes. I suspect that the stock WA22 tubes are Sylvania, RCA or GE. They look very similar. Mine looked like previous markings had been rubbed off. I could see impressions in the glass. Actually only showed when photographed.
  
 Best thing is use the WA22 for a while and think about what you will like different. Then look for that type of tube.


----------



## daverich4

qingjingyaxuan said:


> Is this an upgrade tube for wa22? so many kind of 6sn7gt tubes, do not know what is the difference.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-SYLVANIA-6SN7GT-Matched-Pair-Tubes-Original-Boxes-/261609535079?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ce924b667




http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread


----------



## qingjingyaxuan

Thanks， badas and daverich4. I will buy upgrade tubes from woo audio website, it is more convenient and do not need to take long time to search...


----------



## bpcans

qingjingyaxuan said:


> Thanks， badas and daverich4. I will buy upgrade tubes from woo audio website, it is more convenient and do not need to take long time to search...:atsmile:


Just a suggestion before ordering from Woo Audio. I'm using 6SN7's from Sophia Electric and I think that they're an outstanding tube with way above average value for your money. They'll be as close to perfectly matched as you can get and they come with a decent warranty. It wouldn't hurt to give them a call. I believe I saved myself a lot of pesos getting new tubes. Just my $0.02 as always.


----------



## punit

Am selling a pair if anyone's interested.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/733455/sophia-electric-grade-a-6sn7-matched-pair


----------



## MIKELAP

Do all the WA22 owners here enjoy there HP balanced if so what balanced Dac are you using . Thanks


----------



## bonesnv

mikelap said:


> Do all the WA22 owners here enjoy there HP balanced if so what balanced Dac are you using . Thanks


 
  
 I was using a Schiit Gungnir but moved over to a Matrix X-Sabre, which has a higher range of PCM support, as well as full DSD and DXD support.  Got it off a fellow head-fi member here.  The Gungnir I always felt was kind of an in your face presentation, like you were on the edge of your seat listening to the music.  The Matrix has a more relaxed feeling to it and I feel it pairs very well with the WA22 in terms of smoothness.  The brightness in certain areas is veiled and subdued enough where it doesn't give off harshness and also allowed me to utilize a few different tube combinations that I couldn't previously use with the Gungnir due to the up front shouting feeling of it, specifically the Ken Rad VT231's and some other 6SN7's that I totally hated previously.
  
 It really comes down to what tonal signature are you looking for in a DAC, something totally transparent or something that lends a bit of warmth and fun to the music?  What input/output connections do you really need, digital volume control, fancy lights, etc.  Then figure out how much money you have budgeted, there are some good used deals to be had if you look around and don't mind used equipment that still works beautifully.
  
 I have tried the unbalanced option, wasn't quite the same in my opinion.  As was pointed out to me though earlier in the thread, the output is the same either way, when using balanced out or the single ended out, the experience is fairly similar with the volume knob maybe just needing a bit of tweaking in SE output as I found it doesn't have quite the same "oomph".


----------



## Justin_Time

I need some help:

Could anyone tell me if the Sophia Electric 6SN7 tubes fit on the Woo WA5?

It is pretty tight already with the regular Syvania 6SN7GT.

Also what do they sound like compared to the NOS Tungsol VT-231, Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT231, Kenrad VT-231or Mullard?


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Just a suggestion before ordering from Woo Audio. I'm using 6SN7's from Sophia Electric and I think that they're an outstanding tube with way above average value for your money. They'll be as close to perfectly matched as you can get and they come with a decent warranty. It wouldn't hurt to give them a call. I believe I saved myself a lot of pesos getting new tubes. Just my $0.02 as always.


 
  
 If you like the Sophia 6SN7s (and I like them also) you might want to try the TJ Full Music 6SN7.
  
 Same tube from the same factory, but without the Sophia QA hype and mark up. Available for around $120 for a matched pair vs $200 for a pair from Sophia.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181309393836?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## bonesnv

tonynewman said:


> If you like the Sophia 6SN7s (and I like them also) you might want to try the TJ Full Music 6SN7.
> 
> Same tube from the same factory, but without the Sophia QA hype and mark up. Available for around $120 for a matched pair vs $200 for a pair from Sophia.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181309393836?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Aren't the TJ tubes made in the Shuguang factory, or are Sophia's also made their as well?


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> Aren't the TJ tubes made in the Shuguang factory, or are Sophia's also made their as well?


 
  
 Sorry - couldn't tell you which factory - but it is the same factory and the same tube.
  
 This article explains it a lot better than I can.
  
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/sophia-electric-royal-princess-300b-output-tube-an-examination-of-provenance-quality-and-production-costs-in-the-murky-world-of-audio-tube-manufacture/
  
 Interesting that some of the tubes are unique to Sophia, like the SERP, others like the 6SN7s are re-badged TJ with extra QA.
  
 It is up to the consumer to decide if the extra QA is worth the price bump (from $120 to $200 for the 6SN7s). I have a pair of TJ 6SN7s on the way to me now - I will be very surprised if I notice any sonic difference between these and the Sophia's - but you never know until you try.


----------



## joseph69

The 6SN7's are my favorite tubes. I have a few different brands of NOS, and there is definitely differences between them…my favorites are the 60's Brown Base Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's due to the rich warm sound I get with the WA6/RS1i.


----------



## bpcans

punit said:


> Am selling a pair if anyone's interested.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/733455/sophia-electric-grade-a-6sn7-matched-pair


Somebody buy these tubes. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Oskari

bonesnv said:


> Aren't the TJ tubes made in the Shuguang factor


 
  
 TJ is a manufacturer in Tianjin.


----------



## bonesnv

oskari said:


> TJ is a manufacturer in Tianjin.


 
  
 Ahh, gotcha, thanks for the clarification.  I know most of the new stock tubes kind of share distribution from 2 to 3 different manufacturers selling under a several different names, couldn't remember who was who though.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Do all the WA22 owners here enjoy there HP balanced if so what balanced Dac are you using . Thanks




Yes. Audeze LCD-3 balanced and Oppo HA-1 as a DAC.


----------



## Badas

I got my Svetlana power tubes for the WA22. I'm breaking them in at the moment. They have a very nice smooth natural sound. The 7236 Tung-Sol from Woo has a lot more power tho.

Also. What is it when you get crackly hiss sound when no music is playing. Is that microphonic? I'm experiencing it bad with these. Will that go away with time?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Also. What is it when you get crackly hiss sound when no music is playing. Is that microphonic? I'm experiencing it bad with these. Will that go away with time?


 
  
 Yes and probably. Burn in is important for tubes - some take 50 hours to stabilize, others 300 hours. Harsh and/or microphonic sounds are typical for a tube pre-burn in. It is best not to be too judgemental on tubes before a full burn in - you might be dishing on something that turns out to be a gem with more hours on it.
  
 Some tubes sound great right out of the box (like the Mullard GZ32 - that thing sounds good right away and just gets better). Others take forever - my Psvanes need a full 300 hours to settle.


----------



## Badas

^^^

Thanks. My power transformers are getting a lot hotter. The whole Woo body is warm. Transformers warm. Not hot. With the Tung-Sol's they stayed cold. Is the extra warmth okay?

Edit: in saying that the Svetlana's are a real light show. They glow about 4 times brighter than the Tung-Sols. Would that part of the extra heat?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^^^
> 
> Thanks. My power transformers are getting a lot hotter. The whole Woo body is warm. Transformers warm. Not hot. With the Tung-Sol's they stayed cold. Is the extra warmth okay?
> 
> Edit: in saying that the Svetlana's are a real light show. They glow about 4 times brighter than the Tung-Sols. Would that part of the extra heat?


 
  
 Some tubes are hotter than others. My SERPs could double as a BBQ - you could toast marsh mellows in front of those things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT - apologies - you were talking about the transformers, not the tubes.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Some tubes are hotter than others. My SERPs could double as a BBQ - you could toast marsh mellows in front of those things
> 
> EDIT - apologies - you were talking about the transformers, not the tubes.




Yeah. Previously my power transformers would run cold to cool. Now they are mid to high warm. I have the volume control a lot higher to take into account these new power tubes are not as powerful. Nothing is super hot. The base of the power tubes are hottish. However whole Woo now runs warm. Okay or not?

Edit: Wow they do that blue glow thing as well. Freaky cool. Certainly a beautiful looking tube. Only one side is now microphonic (so that would only be one tube wouldn't it?). The other side dead silent.


----------



## DragonOwen

Already posted some photos in "Show us your Head-Fi station at it's current state." thread, but dicided that they will be more appropriate in this thread with some text comments (almost no technical details, sorry, I'm noob in this mater, so only photos...)
  
 Had some issues with my WooAudio WES... As I live in Russia and bought it here about 2 years ago on second hand market, so guarantee is probably over long ago, I decided to ask good master that lives in my city for help (Sergei Zhukov, LynxAudio)...
 So, first issue: had loud "click" sound and volume is became much quiter and had some clearly hearable distortions, when I looked on the amp I saw that power tubes not light... After master looked inside the amp he indetified the problem - stabilazer had broken, so make new (with some changes compared to original for more stability)... Here are a few photos:
 - Broken stock stabilazer:

  
 - New (v1, after 2nd issue master maked new stabilizer because of modification of flame rig) stabilazer

  
 Second issue: had some "hiss" sound from left channel, after this volume became much quiter in it, after some trying to turn amp on/off issue became more severe, sound even disappeared compleatly in both channels for 5-10 seconds (turn amp in for 1-2 minutes, for this period 2-3 times sound disappeared), and lastly on final turn on I saw that tubes in PSU is abnormally glow brightly and light is gradually increasing... so, master indetified new issue, one of the four filter chokes in amp unit had resistance about 3/5 of resistance that has any of other three filter chokes (they had almost the same resistance), so it appears that one of filter chokes had coil-winding short circuit... I ordered new filter choke for WES from WooAudio, so that master can fix my amp, he also proposed to make some modifications to the amp, I agreed... So here are a few photos:
  
 - PSU block before fix & modding (stock, with stock stabilazer):

  
 - PSU block after fix & modding:

  
 - Amp block before fix & modding (without one of the filter chokes (broken)):

  
 - Amp block after fix & modding (with one temporary filter choke, later was replaced with identical to other filter chokes (got it from WooAudio)):

  
 - Stock power cable:

  
 - One of two (master maked two with different length, so that I could put blocks of amp on differt shelves using long power cable) new power cables (not fully assembled):

  
 - Final view inside after all fixing & modifications:

  
 Now amp is working fine, sound probably (the fix and modding took a lot of time...) even better than it was, and here is how my home rig looks right now:


----------



## bonesnv

badas said:


> ^^^
> 
> Thanks. My power transformers are getting a lot hotter. The whole Woo body is warm. Transformers warm. Not hot. With the Tung-Sol's they stayed cold. Is the extra warmth okay?
> 
> Edit: in saying that the Svetlana's are a real light show. They glow about 4 times brighter than the Tung-Sols. Would that part of the extra heat?


 
  
 The transformers can be hotter based on the tube combinations used.  If I run 7236's + KR VT231's and the 5AW4, the transformers on my amp get pretty toasty and there is a good amount of radiating heat coming off the tubes but nothing I would concern myself with considering how hot amps like the Ragnarok, Lyr and Asgard get, as they use their chassis for the heat-sinks.  If I switch out to lets say, 6F8G or the ECC32's with the 5998 power tubes, everything runs much cooler no matter then rectifier chosen.  Still a fair amount of radiating tube heat but transformers are much cooler to the touch even after 5-6 hours of being on.


----------



## Herueyes

These guys have in my opinion posted the best Headphone Amp Review ever... (44 seconds in just kills it)
  
  
 I couldn't understand a word...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But somethings are indeed Truly Universal...
  
  
  

  
  
 I can watch reviews like this all day looooong....
  
 Now where exactly is that UPS guy with my Killa Beez Schiit!!!
  
  
 Peace...


----------



## bbophead

Pretty funny!


----------



## TonyNewman

Taking WA22 amp loving to a new, and slightly disturbing, level


----------



## Badas

herueyes said:


> These guys have in my opinion posted the best Headphone Amp Review ever... (44 seconds in just kills it)
> 
> 
> I couldn't understand a word...
> ...


 
  
 So could I. Very entertaining. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Badas

bonesnv said:


> The transformers can be hotter based on the tube combinations used.  If I run 7236's + KR VT231's and the 5AW4, the transformers on my amp get pretty toasty and there is a good amount of radiating heat coming off the tubes but nothing I would concern myself with considering how hot amps like the Ragnarok, Lyr and Asgard get, as they use their chassis for the heat-sinks.  If I switch out to lets say, 6F8G or the ECC32's with the 5998 power tubes, everything runs much cooler no matter then rectifier chosen.  Still a fair amount of radiating tube heat but transformers are much cooler to the touch even after 5-6 hours of being on.


 
  
 Thanks for that. I was getting worried about my precious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then I realized it had been on for a solid 3.5 hours. I don't usually have it on that long. Burning in the power tubes.
  
 I switched one of the Svetlana Power tubes (I purchased 12 of them) after dinner last night. Then took another listen. Very quiet when no music is playing (not dead quiet but acceptable). Listened for a solid hour. Transformers were just moving from cool to slightly warm. So all was good.
  
 I was worried that the heat would effect the wiring. Over reaction I think.


----------



## bpcans

herueyes said:


> These guys have in my opinion posted the best Headphone Amp Review ever... (44 seconds in just kills it)
> 
> 
> I couldn't understand a word...:blink:   But somethings are indeed Truly Universal...
> ...


These guys have a lot of audio and other tech gear reviews on YouTube. I find them highly entertaining and fun to watch.


----------



## Nhubley

bpcans said:


> These guys have a lot of audio and other tech gear reviews on YouTube. I find them highly entertaining and fun to watch.


 
 I love these guys.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

herueyes said:


> These guys have in my opinion posted the best Headphone Amp Review ever... (44 seconds in just kills it)
> 
> 
> I couldn't understand a word...
> ...


 
  
 Yo, no Shuguang...
  
 Anyone do Thai?  Translate plz...


----------



## bbophead

sko0bydoo said:


> herueyes said:
> 
> 
> > These guys have in my opinion posted the best Headphone Amp Review ever... (44 seconds in just kills it)
> ...


 

 Figured it was malay.  Really hope I didn't insult anyone with that reply.


----------



## Justin_Time

*A change of mind about matching the Woo WA5 with the Grado PS1000*
  
 *A couple of months ago, I wrote a very long post in the High-End Forum about matching headphones, amps and cables.  I had in that post a mini-review of the Woo WA5 in which I was luke-warm about using it to drive the PS1000 because of remnants of sibilance and brightness in the treble.  Recent experience forces me to amend that conclusion which was made with the Sylvania 6SN7GT VT-231 as driver tubes .  When I replaced them with the Premium Sophia Electric (SE)  6SN7 (GTA equivalent), to my great surprise, I got unbelievably smooth mid-range and additional depth with the PS1000. The frequency extremes seemed to be somewhat reduced with the SE tubes resulting in total eradication of sibilance and brightness, and much reduced ripeness in the bass. Also, using the K1K output (4-pin XLR) controlled the bass of the Grado PS1000 to a degree that I have not experienced before with tube amps.
  
 With the SE 6SN7, I would recommend the Woo WA5 with the PS1000 without any reservation. Note:  the Philips 5R4GYS (Made in Holland) is also an outstanding rectifier for the WA5 at a much lower price than the SE Princess 274B. (Below is an excerpt concerning the Woo WA5 from that very long post).   
  
  
  
_*Woo WA5** *($3500 + $1200 for upgraded parts + $1500 for upgraded tubes)*—*With the exception of the PS1000, I was able to extract some of the best sounds from all the headphones I own with the Woo WA5 (with upgraded parts and Royal-Princess tubes from Sophia Electric).  This amp typically delivered a very clean mid-range with quick but smooth transients and some of the best bass responses in the business.   The PS1000 mid-range was very clean and highly musical.  The bass was taut, dynamic, and punchy.  While lacking the immediacy of the HD800, the focus, center image and sound-stage of the PS1000 with the Woo WA5 was natural and relaxing.  It is a pity that just enough brightness and sibilance creeped in to keep this combination from the top achievement.*  With the HD800, the Woo WA5 produced a truly musical sound with none of the sibilance and stridency typically associated with these headphones.  The Woo WA5 /HD800 achieved the ultimate realism thanks to a tight focus, front-row image, airy sound, and a huge sound-stage.  While a tad less punchy than the PS1000's, the HD800's bass was taut and solid with pretty amazing impacts.  It produced one of the purest and most enjoyable sounds I ever heard from any headphones.  Through the K1K output, the Woo WA5/LCD2-3 combination was also pretty amazing.  The sound was smooth, clean, open and thankfully free of the dark veil.  This beautiful midrange rested upon a solid bass foundation with perhaps the best slam in the business.  If you are a rock fan, you must check out this combination.  Impossibly, the Woo WA5 took the HE-6 to another level. The smooth mid-range had good presence thanks to a forward stage presentation and tighter focus.  This sound was remarkably free of the hardness or glare associated with the HE-6.  I save the best for last:  the bass, at once tight and plentiful, was delivered with an incredible punch that will rock you to the core.  This was truly a match made in heaven._


----------



## Dubstep Girl

kinda what i experienced with PS1000, warmer more colored tubes improved the sound. unfortunately for me, on the WA6-SE, it wasn't enough, that nasty treble still came through, it was and still is the only headphone that actually hurt my ears (sharp pain/ringing).
  
 i am still willing to give the PS1000e a shot on the WA5 someday though.


----------



## Herueyes

Everyone is Welcome for the vid... I just thought it was hilarious *and *informative at the same time with or without a translation....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Now earlier today at work the UPS guy was pissing me off!!!!
  
 but then he suddenly appeared and oh Baby!!!!
  
  

  
  
 Even with the Stock tubes I'm liking this Amp... Damn!!! 
  
 was hard to concentrate @ work with this Slamming Bass and so on and so on...
  
 Could barely turn up the volume with my HP 100's... Damn!!! like going from a 
  
 emission regulated noise controlled catalytic converter exhaust to a I don't give a Schiit straight pipe... Baby!!!
  
 I had checked out the WA6-SE @ the NY Audio Show and decided I was going to treat myself to one...
  

  
 So let the tube rolling begin....
  
  

  
 Err, MeThinks...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Peace...


----------



## Badas

^

Congrats on the WA6-SE. Such a sexy amp.


----------



## Justin_Time

dubstep girl said:


> kinda what i experienced with PS1000, warmer more colored tubes improved the sound. unfortunately for me, on the WA6-SE, it wasn't enough, that nasty treble still came through, it was and still is the only headphone that actually hurt my ears (sharp pain/ringing).
> 
> i am still willing to give the PS1000e a shot on the WA5 someday though.


 
 I had good results with the WA5 and PS1000 using the SE 6SN7 (very smooth mid and great depth) AND the Philips 5R4GYS (Made in Holland).  These Philips rectifiers (only $65 each) provided the last measure of treble taming, sorta like icing on the cake.
  
 For some strange reason, they were less successful with the HE-6--I guess the hardness in the HE-6 was at lower frequencies.


----------



## musicman59

justin_time said:


> I had good results with the WA5 and PS1000 using the SE 6SN7 (very smooth mid and great depth) AND the Philips 5R4GYS (Made in Holland).  These Philips rectifiers (only $65 each) provided the last measure of treble taming, sorta like icing on the cake.
> 
> For some strange reason, they were less successful with the HE-6--I guess the hardness in the HE-6 was at lower frequencies.


 
 The best results I have had with the HE-6 were this this combination: EML 300B Mesh, Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown base/Chrome Top short bottle and EML 5U4G Mesh.


----------



## MIKELAP

I have a question regarding the WA3 amp i saw that it is possible to use 2- 6SN7 tubes as drivers using 6SN7 TO 6CG7 adapters what i dont know is can you do this with  a stock WA3 amp .Thanks


----------



## GrindingThud

Yes, works fine with a stock amp. I did not modify the driver circuit from the Woo design, just the output. I find Woo's circuit design to sound quite nice and did not want to change it. The 6CG7 or equivalent I thought sounded very good and threw a nice sound stage. After a long period of using it, I'd say that it's slightly darker than the intended tube set.



mikelap said:


> I have a question regarding the WA3 amp i saw that it is possible to use 2- 6SN7 tubes as drivers using 6SN7 TO 6CG7 adapters what i dont know is can you do this with  a stock WA3 amp .Thanks


----------



## Nhubley

Congrats man!


----------



## GrindingThud

For others reading the thread and seeing this for the 1st time, Woo does not recommend or endorse this tube combo. The tube operates at a lower voltage than is optimum and in a nonlinear part of its curve, which adds distortion. It also swings a smaller voltage into the output tube, limiting output voltage a bit. Fun to do, and some think nice sounding, but is sub-optimal from a design perspective. So, when I say "works just fine", what I really mean is that it functions and did not fry my amp.



mikelap said:


> I have a question regarding the WA3 amp i saw that it is possible to use 2- 6SN7 tubes as drivers using 6SN7 TO 6CG7 adapters what i dont know is can you do this with  a stock WA3 amp .Thanks


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Sorry - couldn't tell you which factory - but it is the same factory and the same tube.
> 
> This article explains it a lot better than I can.
> 
> ...



My understanding is similar to yours and not atypical of "manufacturing" in China.
 
As the story goes, Sophia Electric (SE) played a major role in designing and in selecting the materials for the manufacturing of the SE 6SN7 tube in the Tianjian factory.  SE also insisted on and developed a very stringent QA/QC for the produced tubes, resulting in the several different grades. Apparently, the factory turned around and sold the same tubes with SE QA/QC to other companies.  They are essentially the same tubes.  Whether the same QA/QC is applied to the tubes sold to companies other than SE like TJ Full Music is anybody's guess. But the TJ factory is certainly very familiar with the QA/QC procedure that SE uses.
 
SE is caught in a delicate position.  Though they obviously do not like the manufacturer's practice, they still need the TJ factory to continue producing their tubes and they cannot say that the tubes sold by TJ Full Music or other companies are not the same tubes made in the same factory.  So the only avenue left to them is to fall back on the more stringent QA/QC.
 
Of course I could not resist the comparison between the SE Grade-A 6SN7 tubes ($200) with TJ Full Music (FM) "Platinum-matched 6SN7 tubes ($120) in my Woo WA5. First both sets of 6SN7 sound very different from my usual input tubes, the Sylvania 6S7NWGTA brown base, chrome top.  The Sylvania has a more forward mid-range, more presence  and more extended frequency extremes, and slightly brighter treble.  Both Chinese tubes are smoother in the mid-range, less extended and sweeter in the treble and have more depth than the Sylvania.
 
Now between the SE amd TJ FM tubes, there are very small differences audibly.  The SE seems a touch smoother still and more musical (the word I invariably reach for when I do not know how to describe whar I hear).  Or it can be all in my imagination.  In any case the differences are small. Are they worth the price difference?  To me they are.  Come on now, why am I trying to save $80 for a pair of 6SN7? I already sank $6500 in the Woo WA5 (part/tubes upgrades).  The (imagined?) difference between the SE and TJ tubes are small at best but I for one am willing to pay $80 extra  to get it.


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> ... Come on now, why am I trying to save $80 for a pair of 6SN7? I already sunked $6500 in the Woo WA5 (part/tubes upgrades).  The (imagined?) difference between the SE and TJ tubes are small at best but I for one am willing to pay $80 extra  to get it.


 
  
 It's a consumer choice for the individual. So far I have had a lot of success purchasing direct, apart from one blown CV-181 T2 tube.


----------



## Badas

Justin_Time
  
 So very well written. Thanks for that.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Just got WA7 for use with Sennheiser HD 800. New setup, still getting used to it.
  
 Do you guys use the high or low impedance for those? I initially had the high impedance setting to match the headphones, but it was picking up my cell phone (yes, I'd like to move the phone further away, but limited space -- talking 6 inches here). I switched to low impedance setting and, knock on wood, better so far.


----------



## bpcans

Birdman, don't be afraid to pamper yourself when you've got the time to listen to some good music. Turn your cellphone OFF for awhile it won't kill you. Then try it on high impedance.


----------



## bonesnv

bpcans said:


> Birdman, don't be afraid to pamper yourself when you've got the time to listen to some good music. Turn your cellphone OFF for awhile it won't kill you. Then try it on high impedance.



 


If I understand him correctly, he is using his phone as the connection to the DAC? Soo...


----------



## bpcans

bonesnv said:


> bpcans said:
> 
> 
> > Birdman, don't be afraid to pamper yourself when you've got the time to listen to some good music. Turn your cellphone OFF for awhile it won't kill you. Then try it on high impedance.
> ...


Oops. Sorry, my bad. This obviously won't be my last mistake today.


----------



## Herueyes

bpcans said:


> Oops. Sorry, my bad. This obviously won't be my last mistake today.


 

 Airplane Mode!!!!


----------



## bpcans

herueyes said:


> Airplane Mode!!!!:wink_face:


Brilliant! Pure genius.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

LOL. No, I use my iMac as sound source (iTunes and Pandora). I can't use airplane mode (but good idea!) because I get text messages I want to see.
  
 I did manage to move things around and get 4 more inches of space and cable modem between thing, which hopefully helps and doesn't introduce its own issues. Will see!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

bpcans said:


> Birdman, don't be afraid to pamper yourself when you've got the time to listen to some good music. Turn your cellphone OFF for awhile it won't kill you. Then try it on high impedance.


 

 Excellent advice. I'll switch back to high impedance, too.  With the increased space it's already sounding better, LOL.


----------



## grokit

justin_time said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > kinda what i experienced with PS1000, warmer more colored tubes improved the sound. unfortunately for me, on the WA6-SE, it wasn't enough, that nasty treble still came through, it was and still is the only headphone that actually hurt my ears (sharp pain/ringing).
> ...


 
  
 I haven't been able to pry the PS1000 off of my head lately, it's definitely my go-to can now out of my WA22. I am using shuguang treasure drivers, 596 rectifier, and sylvania 7236 for power. When I roll it will be to see how the sophia princess does in place of the 596. I wouldn't mind if there was a way to make the earpads a bit more comfortable, but I can deal with them they're not _that_ bad.


----------



## Stereolab42




----------



## Silent One




----------



## Khragon

nice! waiting impatiently for mine


----------



## Silent One

Stereolab42; KMSV, what colour?


----------



## Stereolab42

silent one said:


> Stereolab42; KMSV, what colour?


 
  
 "All black everything!"
  
 BTW somebody on this thread was getting a pair of PSVane Replica 300Bs, any update on that?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Khragon

Silver for me.. love silver color.


----------



## Khragon

Woo hoo! got my tracking # too


----------



## Badas

I got my ebay tube savers today. Rolled them in all working great. Thanks for the recommendation Stereolab42.

Also rolled in some RCA 6SN7 GT driver tubes to see if they are similar to the Greyglass version I also have. Identical construction and sound. Just without the grey paint and half the price.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

With the WA7 which goes to 192kbps, what happens with 256kbps songs from iTunes? What's the translation/limitation?


----------



## amham

You are confusing BIT RATE with SAMPLE RATE.  192kbps is the SAMPLE RATE, the number of instantaneous samples of the original wave form.  256kbps is the BIT RATE or the number of bits transferred, conveyed, processed per unit of time.


----------



## roskodan

birdmanofct said:


> With the WA7 which goes to 192kbps, what happens with 256kbps songs from iTunes? What's the translation/limitation?


 
 you are confusing kHz (sample's resolution per second) with the sample's actual data (memory) weight, kbps (kilo bits per second), of the specific format


amham said:


> You are confusing BIT RATE with SAMPLE RATE.  192kbps is the SAMPLE RATE, the number of instantaneous samples of the original wave form.  256kbps is the BIT RATE or the number of bits transferred, conveyed, processed per unit of time.


 
  
 actually both of you are confusing it
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_%28signal_processing%29#Audio_sampling
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_rate#Audio
  
 also neither is instantaneous, but 'per second'


----------



## Herueyes

roskodan said:


> you are confusing kHz (sample's resolution per second) with the sample's actual data (memory) weight, kbps (kilo bits per second), of the specific format
> 
> actually both of you are confusing it
> 
> ...





Sounds like an .mp3 versus a .flac format issue going on... One is lossy and the other is lossless... One Lo-res and the other Hi-res... Keep at it an you'll figure it out... If not there's always Betamax...



Peace...


----------



## Rem0o

To avoid confusion.

 Bitrate = sample rate * bit depth.  So 44.1 kHz * 16 bits = 705 600 bit/sec. Times 2 for stereo and you get 1 411 200 bits/sec, the standard for CD.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

roskodan said:


> you are confusing kHz (sample's resolution per second) with the sample's actual data (memory) weight, kbps (kilo bits per second), of the specific format
> 
> actually both of you are confusing it
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the links!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

I'm using the WA7 with Sennheiser HD 800. I just downloaded the trial version of Audirvana Plus and it's detecting DAC as 24/96kHz. Shouldn't it be seeing 24/192kHz?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Wait. Maybe it's detecting the source? Hmm, no delete button here....


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Hmm, I finally looked at the manual and the left is DAC and right is source. So, I guess it still doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Herueyes

DAC = Digital to Analog Convertor = optical / USB / coaxial = bits of data (you can't listen to 0's and 1's)


Source = Analog Signal = Left + Right Channel (RCA/XLR cables) stereo



a vinyl record for instance is analog (drop the needle and you will get sound)
 versus 
a compact disc which is digital (laser will read 0's and 1's and you get no sound)
Those 0's and 1's need to be converted for you to hear sound which is why a DAC is needed...

Hope this helps...


----------



## Stereolab42

So I was testing some of the 6SN7 tubes I used with my WA22. To my surprised I noticed that my Sylvania brown-bases were extremely unmatched... one had a Gm 33% more than the other! (The triodes were internally matched within each tube, though.) The odd part is I did not notice any volume imbalance between channels when listening to them. Is this because Woo amps are internally self-biasing?


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> So I was testing some of the 6SN7 tubes I used with my WA22. To my surprised I noticed that my Sylvania brown-bases were extremely unmatched... one had a Gm 33% more than the other! (The triodes were internally matched within each tube, though.) The odd part is I did not notice any volume imbalance between channels when listening to them. Is this because Woo amps are internally self-biasing?


 
  
 I've been told that Woo amps are self-balancing and spending extra $ on matched pairs is unnecessary. Your experience above seems to confirm that.


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> I've been told that Woo amps are self-balancing and spending extra $ on matched pairs is unnecessary. Your experience above seems to confirm that.


 
 Interesting. However I did spend money for a matched pair, so even though they worked I feel ripped-off. (Vendor was tubedepot.com.) All my other 6SN7 pairs test out well.


----------



## bbophead

stereolab42 said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > I've been told that Woo amps are self-balancing and spending extra $ on matched pairs is unnecessary. Your experience above seems to confirm that.
> ...


 

 I use http://www.mcshanedesign.net/tubes.htm
  
 Trustworthy.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Interesting. However I did spend money for a matched pair, so even though they worked I feel ripped-off. (Vendor was tubedepot.com.) All my other 6SN7 pairs test out well.


 
  
 I'm trying to remember the source of the information - I think was a Q&A someone had direct with Jack Wu that was re-posted somewhere in HeadFi.
  
 If anyone can confirm please let us know.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

I managed to move things around some and got a couple inches and cable modem between phone (and charger) and WA7. Definitely helped. Only maybe once and hour I'll hear a buzz and it's much lower in amplitude. I still think the overall sound has improved, so maybe there was other noise going on, too. Or, placebo effect. The buzzing is much better though, and probably as good as I'll get with this desk arrangement.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

tonynewman said:


> I've been told that Woo amps are self-balancing and spending extra $ on matched pairs is unnecessary. Your experience above seems to confirm that.


 
  
 Our amps are self biasing.  We do encourage to use matched pair tubes.


----------



## Stereolab42

hifiguy528 said:


> Our amps are self biasing.  We do encourage to use matched pair tubes.


 
  
 Is that because if the tubes are too far out of "match" with each other, the self-biasing circuitry will be stressed somehow, and not provide the best SQ?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Check out what you missed at CanJam 2014.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

birdmanofct said:


> I managed to move things around some and got a couple inches and cable modem between phone (and charger) and WA7. Definitely helped. Only maybe once and hour I'll hear a buzz and it's much lower in amplitude. I still think the overall sound has improved, so maybe there was other noise going on, too. Or, placebo effect. The buzzing is much better though, and probably as good as I'll get with this desk arrangement.


 

 Maybe I spoke too soon or jinxed it. Now, it's every minute. Grrr. Going airplane mode is not an option. Might have to try SS.


----------



## Herueyes

Try turning off any apps that use data... like mail or something that has to update itself regularly... That might solve it....Unless you are getting a text message or a phone call you shouldn't be hearing any interference.... it just might be the pop/push email - NeWayz... just make sure your phone isn't checking for new emails every minute or so....
  
  
 Peace...


----------



## MIKELAP

Got a question for you guys got a WA6 yesterday offhand can anybody tell me what would be a good combination of tubes for the amp already have the SP 274b and using 6sn7 RCA and 6H8C Russian tubes  with adapters which sounds very good and this with Senns HD800. What other driver tube would be as good or better than this combo also have a pair of SYLVANIA 6DR7. Thanks .


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> Got a question for you guys got a WA6 yesterday offhand can anybody tell me what would be a good combination of tubes for the amp already have the SP 274b and using 6sn7 RCA and 6H8C Russian tubes  with adapters which sounds very good and this with Senns HD800. What other driver tube would be as good or better than this combo also have a pair of SYLVANIA 6DR7. Thanks .


 
 Congratulations!
 I've tried pretty much every tube combo the WA6 will accept, and fell in love with the 596 rectifier/6SN7 driver-power tubes. For me, this combo is excellent with the RS1i, which I always used together. I particularly like the NOS Sylvania's…preferably the brown base, and I have/tried many different 6SN7's.


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations!
> I've tried pretty much every tube combo the WA6 will accept, and fell in love with the 596 rectifier/6SN7 driver-power tubes. For me, this combo is excellent with the RS1i, which I always used together. I particularly like the NOS Sylvania's…preferably the brown base, and I have/tried many different 6SN7's.


 
 Thanks would the Sylvanias be the 6SN7WGTA'S.


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> Thanks would the Sylvanias be the 6SN7WGTA'S.


 
 Yes...I should have said that.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Yes...I should have said that.


 

 RCA 6SN7GT Greyglass is nice (my favorite) if you like things a bit mellow.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> RCA 6SN7GT Greyglass is nice (my favorite) if you like things a bit mellow.


 
 I would love too try them, but I have 6-7 pairs of all different types of 6SN7's…NOS Sylvania Bad Boys/NOS RCA Red Base tubes and more. So I've spent quite a bit on the 6SN7's that I should be real good for a long time.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I would love too try them, but I have 6-7 pairs of all different types of 6SN7's…NOS Sylvania Bad Boys/NOS RCA Red Base tubes and more. So I've spent quite a bit on the 6SN7's that I should be real good for a long time.


 

 Absolutely.


----------



## MIKELAP

Anybody know if the Sophia 6SN7 tubes would fit in front of a SP 274B on a WA6  just checked it out i have less than 1/8¨inch with a regular RCA 6sn7 those SP 6sn7 look bigger than regular 6SN7 anybody know if it fits . Thanks


----------



## bpcans

mikelap said:


> Anybody know if the Sophia 6SN7 tubes would fit in front of a SP 274B on a WA6  just checked it out i have less than 1/8¨inch with a regular RCA 6sn7 those SP 6sn7 look bigger than regular 6SN7 anybody know if it fits . Thanks


The SE 6SN7's do fit in front of the S/P 274b rectifier tube on the WA6, but, they sound really muddy together at least to my ears. The Sophia Electric 6SN7's are fantastic power/driver tubes. A better matching rectifier would be the "Mighty" USAF 596 rec tube or the GZ32. Just my $0.02.


----------



## MIKELAP

How would these sound like in a WA6    Mullard GZ32 CV593


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> How would these sound like in a WA6    Mullard GZ32 CV593


 
  
 In a word - fantastic. I run the Mullard GZ32s in my WA5 and WA6. My favorite rectifier and brilliant value for money at less than 100 bucks per tube.
  
 The only reason I am not running a GZ32 in my WA6 right now is that I am burning in another tube.
  
 The 'best' setup in the WA6 for my ears is the GZ32 paired with either Sylvania NOS 6SN7s or Psvane CV-181 T2s (YMMV)


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> In a word - fantastic. I run the Mullard GZ32s in my WA5 and WA6. My favorite rectifier and brilliant value for money at less than 100 bucks per tube.
> 
> The only reason I am not running a GZ32 in my WA6 right now is that I am burning in another tube.
> 
> The 'best' setup in the WA6 for my ears is the GZ32 paired with either Sylvania NOS 6SN7s or Psvane CV-181 T2s (YMMV)


 

 Ssssssh. Don't tell everyone guys. I'm hunting down more.
  
 Kidding aside best rectifier yet.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Ssssssh. Don't tell everyone guys. I'm hunting down more.
> 
> Kidding aside best rectifier yet.


 
  
 The best bang for the buck rectifier I have come across.
  
 Based on the comments/reviews of others, there are perhaps better tubes out there like the NOS 596, WE422 etc, but these babies are 1) hard to find, and 2) damn pricey.
  
 GZ32 combines performance, price and availability - I love these tubes.


----------



## Badas

Quote: 





tonynewman said:


> The best bang for the buck rectifier I have come across.
> 
> Based on the comments/reviews of others, there are perhaps better tubes out there like the NOS 596, WE422 etc, but these babies are 1) hard to find, and 2) damn pricey.
> 
> GZ32 combines performance, price and availability - I love these tubes.


 
  
 Ssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They will fly up in price. That CBS Hyton 5AW4 is bloody good as well. A little faster than the Mullard. Great price and goes straight up. Might fit that WA6 well.


----------



## Stereolab42




----------



## joseph69

> Stereolab42


 
 Beautiful, congratulations and enjoy!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


>


 
  
 WA5 goodness - welcome to the club


----------



## Stereolab42

Thanks. I should order a new one each year just so I can relive the unboxing experience again and again, lol. The handles on the boxes are really neat.
  
 Too early to make any judgments on how it sounds, but it's certainly at least as good as anything else I've had. Also, it's immediately obvious the K1K port is only for ultra-insensitive cans like the HE-6; its noise floor is too high and its way too powerful for even my LCD-XC. The normal headphone jack is perfectly fine for the XC, gets plenty loud at 1/4th up, with no noise floor issues.
  
 Now I need to rent some HE-6s and consider getting some bookshelf speakers.
  
 Also, I have about 5 billion tubes to roll. Thought it would be neat to start off with all-Sophia though, but my immediate impression is that all three Sophias together make the sound a bit too detailed.


----------



## Stereolab42

The mighty 596:


----------



## Silent One

WA5: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is very satisfying to watch!


----------



## Badas

Absolutely amazing. Congrats.


----------



## whirlwind

Congrats, that is a beautiful amp.
  
 I love how you do not have to run it balanced also...very nice.


----------



## longbowbbs

stereolab42 said:


> The mighty 596:


 
 That's a party! I love the 596's!


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


>


 
 Is that legal  .Wow   Congrats !


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> The best bang for the buck rectifier I have come across.
> 
> Based on the comments/reviews of others, there are perhaps better tubes out there like the NOS 596, WE422 etc, but these babies are 1) hard to find, and 2) damn pricey.
> 
> GZ32 combines performance, price and availability - I love these tubes.


I agree with TonyN on the GZ32, it's a fine rectifier tube especially for the price. Keep an eye out for a USAF 596 though, it's what I use in my WA6 and I think it's fantastic.


----------



## bpcans

stereolab42 said:


> Spoiler


I can't begin to tell you how jealous I am. Congratulations!


----------



## bbophead

Tremendous pics.  Congratulations on the WA5!!!


----------



## Khragon

Very nice! Congrats on your WA5.  Lucky for me I feel your joy


----------



## musicman59

Another happy owner of a "Black Beauty" here.... Congrats on the new acquisition!


----------



## Badas

^^^

I'm loving all the pics. Never seen so much Woo porn on one page before.

Better than their web page.


----------



## Stereolab42

So I convinced the same guy who makes these awesome octal socket savers:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191109289479
  
 To make these ones for the 300B:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201198710749
  
 As soon as I get those in I will have savers on all sockets in the WA5.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Very nice pics guys.  Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> So I convinced the same guy who makes these awesome octal socket savers:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191109289479
> 
> ...




Yeah they are working out great for me. I purchased 7 of them so I had a few spares.

Thanks for your recommendation.

Listening to Roxy Music Avalon SACD. This album was made for tubes. So dreamy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

great pics!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

hifiguy528 said:


> Very nice pics guys.  Thank you for sharing.


 
  
  


dubstep girl said:


> great pics!


 

 Agreed! Thanks!


----------



## FYL941

stereolab42 said:


>



You've inspired me to upgrade!


----------



## kokushu

Just got a woo audio 5 from davidmahler.  He was really helpful with the transaction.  It sound good so far and hopefully I don't have the urge to upgrade for a while.


----------



## Rossliew

mikelap said:


> Got a question for you guys got a WA6 yesterday offhand can anybody tell me what would be a good combination of tubes for the amp already have the SP 274b and using 6sn7 RCA and 6H8C Russian tubes  with adapters which sounds very good and this with Senns HD800. What other driver tube would be as good or better than this combo also have a pair of SYLVANIA 6DR7. Thanks .


 
  
 Hey Mike - do you have a picture of the adapter you use for plugging in the 6SN7s with your WA6? Where would one purchase such adapters?
  


tonynewman said:


> The best bang for the buck rectifier I have come across.
> 
> Based on the comments/reviews of others, there are perhaps better tubes out there like the NOS 596, WE422 etc, but these babies are 1) hard to find, and 2) damn pricey.
> 
> GZ32 combines performance, price and availability - I love these tubes.


 
  
 Tony - for the 596/WE422 type tubes, would an adapter be required in the WA6/6SE or is it merely plug and play?


----------



## bpcans

kokushu said:


> Just got a woo audio 5 from davidmahler.  He was really helpful with the transaction.  It sound good so far and hopefully I don't have the urge to upgrade for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


After one aquires a WA5 where is there left to go?


----------



## Rossliew

kokushu said:


> Just got a woo audio 5 from davidmahler.  He was really helpful with the transaction.  It sound good so far and hopefully I don't have the urge to upgrade for a while.


 
  
 Truly a thing of beauty to behold!! 
  
 Anyone have a used WA5 for sale?


----------



## Silent One

Hope DM is doing well!


----------



## Rossliew

bpcans said:


> After one aquires a WA5 where is there left to go?


 
  
 WA234 Monos perhaps?


----------



## Rossliew

@MIKELAP - can you share some impressions of the WA6/HD800 pairing? Thinking of getting a WA6/6SE myself.
  
 Anyone can advise if rolling the rectifier tube in the WA6 will make noticeable difference or would it be better to roll the driver/power tubes?


----------



## bbophead

rossliew said:


> @MIKELAP - can you share some impressions of the WA6/HD800 pairing? Thinking of getting a WA6/6SE myself.
> 
> Anyone can advise if rolling the rectifier tube in the WA6 will make noticeable difference or would it be better to roll the driver/power tubes?


 

 I found that rolling all three tubes make a difference, sometimes better.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

tonynewman said:


> The best bang for the buck rectifier I have come across.
> 
> Based on the comments/reviews of others, there are perhaps better tubes out there like the NOS 596, WE422 etc, but these babies are 1) hard to find, and 2) damn pricey.
> 
> GZ32 combines performance, price and availability - I love these tubes.


 
  
 NOS 596 for a decent price (not as crazy as WE422A):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tube-/301356072740?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255
  
 Different adapters are required for 596/422A to be used on WA6/6SE.


----------



## bpcans

SkoObyDoo, thanks for the heads up on the 596.


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> Hey Mike - do you have a picture of the adapter you use for plugging in the 6SN7s with your WA6? Where would one purchase such adapters?
> 
> 
> Tony - for the 596/WE422 type tubes, would an adapter be required in the WA6/6SE or is it merely plug and play?


 
  
 EDIT - answered by another forumite - please ignore my post.


----------



## Stereolab42

rossliew said:


> WA234 Monos perhaps?


 
  
 Yeah, that's gotta be the only path up. WAAAAAAAY up.  Remember you need to price-in the cost of a high-end preamp also.


----------



## musicman59

kokushu said:


> Just got a woo audio 5 from davidmahler.  He was really helpful with the transaction.  It sound good so far and hopefully I don't have the urge to upgrade for a while.


 
 What tubes are you using there?


----------



## MIKELAP

What adapter or adapters would i need to use a 596 Rectifier  tube on a WA6. Any seller you could recommend. Thanks .


----------



## musicman59

mikelap said:


> What adapter or adapters would i need to use a 596 Rectifier  tube on a WA6. Any seller you could recommend. Thanks .


 
 You can get the adapter from Woo or from Glenn.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn would be the one, for W422A or 596 adapter.  Pretty cool guy.


----------



## MIKELAP

sko0bydoo said:


> 2359glenn would be the one, for W422A or 596 adapter.  Pretty cool guy.


 
 Would this adapter be 4 pin to 4 pin i would guess because just saw a chinease one that said 596 to 5U4G with 4 pin on top but looks like octal on bottom wrong sticker on adapter possibly     http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-596-to-5U4G-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-02-/290973109145?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf594b99


----------



## Sko0byDoo

mikelap said:


> Would this adapter be 4 pin to 4 pin i would guess because just saw a chinease one that said 596 to 5U4G with 4 pin on top but looks like octal on bottom wrong sticker on adapter possibly     http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-596-to-5U4G-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-02-/290973109145?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf594b99


 
  
 This adapter would work.  596 is 4-pin, Woo amps use octal rectifier tubes so it's correct (octal but used only 4 pins).  But Glenn's version looks nicer and the top two wires to plates are covered so safer.


----------



## MIKELAP

sko0bydoo said:


> This adapter would work.  596 is 4-pin, Woo amps use octal rectifier tubes so it's correct (octal but used only 4 pins).  But Glenn's version looks nicer and the top two wires to plates are covered so safer.


 
 Just received amp thats why i never noticed only looked at tube lol .Live and learn . Thanks


----------



## bbophead

sko0bydoo said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Would this adapter be 4 pin to 4 pin i would guess because just saw a chinease one that said 596 to 5U4G with 4 pin on top but looks like octal on bottom wrong sticker on adapter possibly     http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-596-to-5U4G-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-02-/290973109145?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf594b99
> ...


 

 +1.


----------



## Stereolab42

mikelap said:


> Would this adapter be 4 pin to 4 pin i would guess because just saw a chinease one that said 596 to 5U4G with 4 pin on top but looks like octal on bottom wrong sticker on adapter possibly     http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-596-to-5U4G-Vacuum-tube-adapter-socket-converter-02-/290973109145?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bf594b99


 
  
 No, that Chinese adapter DOES NOT work. I ordered a few and they have it completely miswired. Order from Glenn instead.


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> No, that Chinese adapter DOES NOT work. I ordered a few and they have it completely miswired. Order from Glenn instead.


 
 I ve ordered several adapters from this seller  and a few of them didnt work ,or had problems eventually a few guys on the Littledot Thread as well had problems you wait a month for it to get here and it doesnt work not good to say the least wont repeat the choice words i used lol.Thanks


----------



## Sko0byDoo

stereolab42 said:


> No, that Chinese adapter DOES NOT work. I ordered a few and they have it completely miswired. Order from Glenn instead.


 
  
Hmm...I also got one but haven't used yet since I got a Glenn.  Just measured it, seems to be correct.  Octal pins 2 & 8 are filaments (go to two big pins of the 596).  Octal pins 4 & 6 are plates (two top wires).  Possible DC out on pin-2 not 8, but can't confirm since no 596 specs on the internet (Woo amps, I think, wired to get dc out on pin-8).  You may want to ask Glenn on this.  Glenn knows everything.
  
 Found 596 specs.  Just get a Glenn.  *Stereolab42* is right, it's wired incorrectly to be used for Woo.  It wired for DC out on pin-2, which is no good on Woo amps.  *Stereolab42*, you can get another adapter, octal-2-octal, with pin-8 swap with pin-2 to use the Chinese stuffs (this octal-2-octal will be the WE422A-to-5U4G adapter).


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Looks like I'll be keeping the WA7 for now. I'd considered the HDVD 800, but certainly don't want any brighter on HD 800 (they're OK with WA7).
  
 I wonder if the interference has gotten less (knock on wood). I'd burned in about 30hr and was still having it. I'm probably double that, now, and not hearing any. I'm just (FINALLY!) really enjoying the music. Thanks!


----------



## kokushu

bpcans said:


> After one aquires a WA5 where is there left to go?


 
 For me it seem like the Eddie Current 445 is an upgrade.  I just can't afford it right now and I got the WA 5 at a good price.


----------



## kokushu

musicman59 said:


> What tubes are you using there?


 
 The stock 300b, stock 6sn7, and the 274b.  I am thinking about upgrading the 300b and would love to try the western electric first; although I don't see anywhere that sell the WE 300b anymore.  Maybe you guy can help.  Otherwise I probably have to go for the Sophia Princess 300b.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> The stock 300b, stock 6sn7, and the 274b.  I am thinking about upgrading the 300b and would love to try the western electric first; although I don't see anywhere that sell the WE 300b anymore.  Maybe you guy can help.  Otherwise I probably have to go for the Sophia Princess 300b.


 
  
 Just about anything is going to be a significant improvement from the stock tubes - which, frankly, suck big hairy donkey nuts.
  
 I would look at NOS Mullard GZ32s for rectification - Audio Asylum has these for a very reasonable price. Excellent sound for the dollars.
  
 There are so many NOS 6SN7 options I can't begin to mention them all. There is an excellent 6SN7 thread on this forum filled with good ideas. For new production I like the Shuguang Treasure CV-181 (the black tube). I like the sound of the Psvane T2 CV-181s (the grey tube), but have had some reliability issues with the brand, so am hesitant to recommend them.
  
 For 300B, NOS WE300Bs are crazy expensive. I have tried, and like, the new production from EAT (effectively a base model EML 300B tube) and Sophia Royal Princess. The pricing on the SERPs is a bit outrageous - mesh 300Bs from EML might be a better option, but I haven't tried these yet. Stepping down in pricing from the flagships, the standard Sophia Princess is a decent tube and I would also look at the Shuguang Treasure 300B.
  
 Good luck - tube rolling on the WA5 is tremendous fun, just watch your wallet with the 300Bs


----------



## kokushu

If I could only upgrade one tube which one it should be?  How the rectifier, driver, and power tube affect the sound of the WA 5?


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> If I could only upgrade one tube which one it should be?  How the rectifier, driver, and power tube affect the sound of the WA 5?


 
  
 From memory, the stock 6SN7s don't suck nearly as badly as the stock 300B and rectifiers. I would probably go for the 300Bs, then the rectifiers, then the drivers.
  
 Just my 2 cents - it would be a real shame to have such a great amp as the WA5 and not put nice tubes in all 3 spots - power / driver / rectifier.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stock rectifiers are terrible


----------



## joseph69

rossliew said:


> @MIKELAP - can you share some impressions of the WA6/HD800 pairing? Thinking of getting a WA6/6SE myself.
> 
> Anyone can advise if rolling the rectifier tube in the WA6 will make noticeable difference or would it be better to roll the driver/power tubes?


 
 IME, yes of course rolling the rectifier makes a difference..but IME rolling the driver/power tubes impact the sound more.
  


mikelap said:


> What adapter or adapters would i need to use a 596 Rectifier  tube on a WA6. Any seller you could recommend. Thanks .


 
 Definitely use the Glenn adapters!


----------



## kokushu

Have anybody heard the 300b from psvane?  They claim that it exact copy of the WE 300b.  I kind of doubt it but maybe somebody have try and share their experience.


----------



## Rossliew

joseph69 said:


> IME, yes of course rolling the rectifier makes a difference..but IME rolling the driver/power tubes impact the sound more.
> 
> Definitely use the Glenn adapters!


 
 Thanks for the feedback all !


----------



## Sko0byDoo

WA5 Wooers, SERP 300b:
  
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-sophia-electric-royal-princess-pair-of-300b-tubes-2014-10-24-accessories
  
 Gone


----------



## Khragon

I got a pair coming tomorrow, anyone know how serp compared to eml mesh? That's another tube I'm interested in.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> Have anybody heard the 300b from psvane?  They claim that it exact copy of the WE 300b.  I kind of doubt it but maybe somebody have try and share their experience.


 
  
 I have 200+ hours on a set of Psvane WE300B 1:1 replicas. Not fully burnt in as Psvane tubes seem to need 300 hours to stabilize, so take these comments with a grain of salt.
  
 The sound is pleasant, and there is definitely something happening in the mid-range that my other high end 300Bs don't seem to have (EAT and SERP), however, I don't find them as engaging as either the EAT or the SERPs. They are lacking extension in both directions compared to the other tubes.
  
 Some folks say that they are indistinguishable from the vintage WE300Bs. I have never heard a vintage WE300B, so I can't say, but I would be surprised if the vintage WE300B was outperformed in every aspect, except mid range warmth, compared to EAT 300B and SERP 300B.
  
 Again, please take this with some caution as I have not completed burn in. I have somewhere between 200 and 250 hours on them, not complete burn in, but perhaps close enough to draw some limited conclusions from.


----------



## Stereolab42

Hmm. So much for the Psvane replicas then. Still waiting for somebody to try the Takatsuki TA-300Bs (available from pricejapan.com for $1400... which is actually only $200 more than the SERPs or EATs cost for a pair... though the EML 300B meshes are a mere $800).


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kokushu said:


> Just got a woo audio 5 from davidmahler.  He was really helpful with the transaction.  It sound good so far and hopefully I don't have the urge to upgrade for a while.


 
  
 Congratulations!
  
 gorgeous shot.  Mind if we use it on our FB page?   
  


rossliew said:


> WA234 Monos perhaps?


 
  
 natural...


----------



## Silent One

stereolab42 said:


> Hmm. So much for the Psvane replicas then. Still waiting for somebody to try the Takatsuki TA-300Bs (available from pricejapan.com for $1400... which is actually only $200 more than the SERPs or EATs cost for a pair... though the EML 300B meshes are a mere $800).


 
 I'm up for trying the Tak's but will need 2-3 months. And then an amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





to stick 'em in...


----------



## kokushu

Thank you hifiguy528.  If you want send me a pm and maybe I could send you the original copy since the one on head fi is compressed.  The original look more sharp and clear.


----------



## musicman59

kokushu said:


> The stock 300b, stock 6sn7, and the 274b.  I am thinking about upgrading the 300b and would love to try the western electric first; although I don't see anywhere that sell the WE 300b anymore.  Maybe you guy can help.  Otherwise I probably have to go for the Sophia Princess 300b.


 
 The WE 300b are not in current production so quantities a limited and prices are astronomical so I personally will not go that way.
 My main 300b are EML 300b Mesh but I also have a pair of EAT and AVVT. I have not listened to the AVVT yet and to my ears the EAT are more dynamic than the EML but I like the romantic sound of the EML.
  
 All the tubes (Power, Driver and Rectifier) affect the sound in my opinion and your sound is going to be as good as your weakest link in your sound chain. IMO (at least the ones that came with my amp) the stock power and rectifier tubes are not very good. The driver tubes were some NOS RCA that were decent but just that decent.
  
 For rectifier tubes I have tried Sophia 274B, EML 274B Mesh, USF 596, Cossor/Chemler U52 and Birmar 5R4YG. I would recommend any of these.
 For drivers I have tried many but my favorites are: Tungsol 6SN7GT Black Glass/Round Plates, Tungsol 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates, Mullard ECC32, RCA 5692 Red Base, Sylvania 6SN7WGT Brown Base/Chrome Top. Many other NOS that are good.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## MIKELAP

Is there a center pin with a groove on a  596 or a rk60 tubes  or only on the adapter part that goes in amp usually are the contacts on top of the tube aligned like so (picture)or the adapter has to be made so everything linesup like on picture .Thanks


----------



## bonesnv

No guide pin on the 596 itself.  I do believe 2 of the pins are larger than the other 2, would have to look at mine to confirm.  The adapter is the one with the guide pin for the socket on the amp.


----------



## joseph69

> [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/b/b8/100x100px-LS-b848e45c_900x900px-LL-8fe604ba_P1030381.jpeg[/img]
> 
> MIKELAP
> 
> ...


 
 Like *bonesnv* said, the guide is only on the adapter not the tube itself. And yes, 2 thicker socket pins and 2 thinner socket pins. With Woo's 596 adapter* in the WA6*, the 596* didn't* sit at (9-3 o'clock) in the socket, the tube pins were at (8-2 o'clock). I use the Glenn adapter, and the 596 now sit like yours do in the photos (9/3 o'clock).
 It all comes down to the positioning of your amp sockets.


----------



## Khragon

Sad news.. upscale audio just informed me that they're out of GZ32 stock.. lucky I got the last pair.
  
 *Edit* a quick google search revealed there are plenty of other sources... just at a slightly higher price.. no need to panic


----------



## bonesnv

khragon said:


> Sad news.. upscale audio just informed me that they're out of GZ32 stock.. lucky I got the last pair.


 
  
 They're all over the web still if you look around.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Sad news.. upscale audio just informed me that they're out of GZ32 stock.. lucky I got the last pair.
> 
> *Edit* a quick google search revealed there are plenty of other sources... just at a slightly higher price.. no need to panic


 
  
 Bugger! I placed an order for 3xGZ32 with Upscale on the 24th. Just checked the order status - "Awaiting Fulfillment".
  
 I'm guessing I will be waiting for a while...


----------



## joseph69

khragon said:


> Sad news.. upscale audio just informed me that they're out of GZ32 stock.. lucky I got the last pair.
> 
> *Edit* a quick google search revealed there are plenty of other sources... just at a slightly higher price.. no need to panic


 
  
  


bonesnv said:


> They're all over the web still if you look around.


 
  
  


tonynewman said:


> Bugger! I placed an order for 3xGZ32 with Upscale on the 24th. Just checked the order status - "Awaiting Fulfillment".
> 
> I'm guessing I will be waiting for a while...


 
 Are you guys speaking about the Mullard GZ32?
 If so, is it Mullard NOS or a new production?
 Thanks!


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> Are you guys speaking about the Mullard GZ32?
> If so, is it Mullard NOS or a new production?
> Thanks!


 
  
 Talking about the NOS Mullard GZ32 labeled as CV593.


----------



## Oskari

joseph69 said:


> Are you guys speaking about the Mullard GZ32?
> If so, is it Mullard NOS or a new production?
> Thanks!


 
  
 There is no current production.


----------



## kokushu

After looking around I think I might try the eml 300b.  Does anybody know the different between the three version of eml 300b: 300b, 300b xls, and 300b mesh.


----------



## TonyNewman

oskari said:


> There is no current production.


 
  
 Sovtek purchased the rights to the Mullard brand - they are producing a number of tubes under the 'Mullard' name with similar boxing to the NOS. Not sure if they are making GZ32s - I think they are making EL34s and a few others.


----------



## bonesnv

tonynewman said:


> Sovtek purchased the rights to the Mullard brand - they are producing a number of tubes under the 'Mullard' name with similar boxing to the NOS. Not sure if they are making GZ32s - I think they are making EL34s and a few others.


 
  
 There is no current production of the CV593 though, so Oskari is correct.


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> Talking about the NOS Mullard GZ32 labeled as CV593.


 
 Thanks!
  


oskari said:


> There is no current production.


 
 I had one and sold it with my first WA6…and it was a new production Mullard GZ32…but I guess it wasn't a CV593.
 As TonyNewman says, I guess it was labled EL34 or other, I don't remember. I paid $80.00 for it new…I was just curious if this was the same tube you guys were talking about.
 Thanks.
  


tonynewman said:


> Sovtek purchased the rights to the Mullard brand - they are producing a number of tubes under the 'Mullard' name with similar boxing to the NOS. Not sure if they are making GZ32s - I think they are making EL34s and a few others.


 
 Thanks.


----------



## Oskari

There is no current production of Mullard GZ32s marked GZ32 or otherwise.


----------



## joseph69

oskari said:


> There is no current production of Mullard GZ32s marked GZ32 or otherwise.


 
 Then maybe it was a NOS…but I only paid $80.00 for it and it wasn't bad at all.
 I'm going to try and find it in my purchases on my eBay, I'll keep you posted if I can go back that far.


----------



## bonesnv

joseph69 said:


> Then maybe it was a NOS…but I only paid $80.00 for it and it wasn't bad at all.
> I'm going to try and find it in my purchases on my eBay, I'll keep you posted if I can go back that far.


 
  
 That was around the price of the NOS CV593 RAF military stock, so you may have gotten the proper one.  If you still have writing on the glass of the tube, should say "CV593" on it.  If there's no writing, just post a picture and someone can say for sure whether it is or not based on the structure.


----------



## musicman59

kokushu said:


> After looking around I think I might try the eml 300b.  Does anybody know the different between the three version of eml 300b: 300b, 300b xls, and 300b mesh.


 
 I just have experience with the 300b Mesh but for what I read the Mesh is better and smoother than the 300b and the XLS has a little higher output.


----------



## Stereolab42

Got "audiophile" fuses for my Woos (HiFiTuning, from "The Cable Company"):
  

  
 No, I can't hear a difference. No, the background did not get blacker. No, I don't care.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> I just have experience with the 300b Mesh but for what I read the Mesh is better and smoother than the 300b and the XLS has a little higher output.


 
  
 I am trying to take a break from my 300B buying addiction - it gets expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If/when I buy another set of 300Bs it will probably be the EML mesh - I am a sucker for a warm, rich sound.


----------



## Silent One

stereolab42 said:


> Got "audiophile" fuses for my Woos (HiFiTuning, from "The Cable Company"):
> 
> 
> 
> No, I can't hear a difference. No, the background did not get blacker. No, I don't care.


 
 I threw a ceramic Furuteech fuse into my Woo and didn't care about the 5 "W's" either. My audio journey is a personal one and I'm going to make it do what it do!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kokushu said:


> Thank you hifiguy528.  If you want send me a pm and maybe I could send you the original copy since the one on head fi is compressed.  The original look more sharp and clear.


 
  
 one on HF is ok because FB, Instagram aren't high-res anyways.    THANK YOU for letting us share your wonderful pics.


----------



## Stereolab42

I couldn't resist taking a peek at the upgraded parts... not that I have a clue what many of these things are doing, but they are nice to look at. It's actually shocking to compare pictures of the inside of Woos to the insides of other amps. The Woos are much cleaner and simpler, but with comparable functionality, pristine sound, and no noise floor. Alien technology?
  
 Circa 2014, Woo Audio WA5:


----------



## joseph69

bonesnv said:


> That was around the price of the NOS CV593 RAF military stock, so you may have gotten the proper one.  If you still have writing on the glass of the tube, should say "CV593" on it.  If there's no writing, just post a picture and someone can say for sure whether it is or not based on the structure.


 
 I no longer have the tube, I sold it with my first WA6 and don't remember if the glass said (CV593 on it. I also couldn't find it in my eBay purchases…although I could go back to my 2013 purchase history, it wouldn't show any purchases???


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> I couldn't resist taking a peek at the upgraded parts... not that I have a clue what many of these things are doing, but they are nice to look at. It's actually shocking to compare pictures of the inside of Woos to the insides of other amps. The Woos are much cleaner and simpler, but with comparable functionality, pristine sound, and no noise floor. Alien technology?
> 
> Circa 2014, Woo Audio WA5:


 
  
 I wish my house was that neat and clean.


----------



## DragonOwen

stereolab42 said:


> I couldn't resist taking a peek at the upgraded parts... not that I have a clue what many of these things are doing, but they are nice to look at. It's actually shocking to compare pictures of the inside of Woos to the insides of other amps. The Woos are much cleaner and simpler, but with comparable functionality, pristine sound, and no noise floor. Alien technology?
> 
> Circa 2014, Woo Audio WA5:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can completely agree that Woo amps definitely looks much simpler inside, than outside... Some pages ago posted some photos of my WES before and after fixing and modding by russian master (Sergei Zhukov, LynxAudio). Here are a link to the post with this photos, if someone interested (BTW only I have some strange bug with 2076 page of this thread (when I'm on this page it's like it's became the last page in this thread)?): link


----------



## TonyNewman

hifiguy528 said:


> one on HF is ok because FB, Instagram aren't high-res anyways.    THANK YOU for letting us share your wonderful pics.


 
  
 And Thank You to Woo Audio for putting out great products like the WA6 and WA5.
  
 The WA6 was my introduction to tube sound and HeadFi - got me hooked on SET amps. Now I have 3 of the buggers, my wallet is empty but I'm smiling all the way


----------



## Badas

^

Those internal WA5 pics are so very nice. Thanks for posting.


----------



## kazsud

stereolab42 said:


> Got "audiophile" fuses for my Woos (HiFiTuning, from "The Cable Company"):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the same fuses in my emotiva airmotiv 6s and it increased the soundstage. After a few days I had to move my listening chair back. 
Give it about a week but remember the fuses are directional so you probably want to switch the direction a few times.


----------



## kokushu

Have anybody try the early russian 6h8c on the woo audio 5?  I could get a pair of them for cheap and was wondering if its even better than the stock tube of WA 5.


----------



## Stereolab42

kazsud said:


> I have the same fuses in my emotiva airmotiv 6s and it increased the soundstage. After a few days I had to move my listening chair back.
> Give it about a week but remember the fuses are directional so you probably want to switch the direction a few times.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


>


 
  
I think he is taking the wee wee


----------



## kazsud

Lol


----------



## BirdManOfCT

kazsud said:


> I have the same fuses in my emotiva airmotiv 6s and it increased the soundstage. After a few days I had to move my listening chair back.
> Give it about a week but remember the fuses are directional so you probably want to switch the direction a few times.


 

 Like you noticied, a few days of burn in does make a difference. A couple more weeks will really open it up.
  
 Make sure the glass is clean, too. There are special cloths to do that, but they're like $50 each.


----------



## 2359glenn

kazsud said:


> stereolab42 said:
> 
> 
> > Got "audiophile" fuses for my Woos (HiFiTuning, from "The Cable Company"):
> ...


 
 Directional fuses that's a good one


----------



## Stereolab42

Well, you never know... practically every high-end pair of interconnects these days come with directional arrows on it. Why not fuses?


----------



## bonesnv

EDIT:  fail at funny image


----------



## BirdManOfCT

I'm using the WA7 with my iMac and currently have AudioQuest Forest for USB cable. Would there be much difference with Wireworld Starlight? Or something else in that price range?


----------



## TonyNewman

birdmanofct said:


> I'm using the WA7 with my iMac and currently have AudioQuest Forest for USB cable. Would there be much difference with Wireworld Starlight? Or something else in that price range?


 
  
 I'd go for something with diamond insulation and unicorn leather cover. Those zeros and ones will notice the difference.
  
 Anything less than $1000 per metre will cause interphase distortion in the magnetic resistance ground plane, leading to jitter all over the place.


----------



## bonesnv

Guys don't need to be complete dicks about it, we all had to start somewhere.


----------



## MIKELAP

Which reminds me, when i was a rookie machinist at work a zillion years ago an old guy ask me to go get level oil in the basement of the shop well i looked and looked i never found the basement but the thing is there wasnt a basement and if you ever find level oil let me know lol. It was  all in good fun  .


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesnv said:


> Guys don't need to be complete dicks about it, we all had to start somewhere.


 
  
 You're right - apologies.
  
 Sometimes the BS factor in some sectors of the audiophile marketplace gets a bit much - all of those BS terms I used above came from the product spiels for pricey USB cable and power cable ...etc I was given to try. None of them made an ounce of difference to SQ, but the marketing blurb was hilarious - USB Cable that overcomes "interphase distortion" and Power Cables that provide a solution for "magnetic resistance", and don't forget to burn in your expensive cables so that they will align to the "ground plane" of your system ... What? Reading this stuff makes me want to cut myself, or laugh, or both simultaneously.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

tonynewman said:


> I'd go for something with diamond insulation and unicorn leather cover. Those zeros and ones will notice the difference.
> 
> Anything less than $1000 per metre will cause interphase distortion in the magnetic resistance ground plane, leading to jitter all over the place.


 

 So, a price on eBay of $375 should be a steal. Hopefully, it's free shipping.


----------



## bbophead

Go for it!


----------



## koiloco

tonynewman said:


> You're right - apologies.
> 
> Sometimes the BS factor in some sectors of the audiophile marketplace gets a bit much - all of those BS terms I used above came from the product spiels for pricey USB cable and power cable ...etc I was given to try. None of them made an ounce of difference to SQ, but the marketing blurb was hilarious - USB Cable that overcomes "interphase distortion" and Power Cables that provide a solution for "magnetic resistance", and don't forget to burn in your expensive cables so that they will align to the "ground plane" of your system ... What? Reading this stuff makes me want to cut myself, or laugh, or both simultaneously.


 
 +1.  You said it all.
  
 Personally, I don't mind ppl spending their hard earned $ any way they see fit but promoting such subjective beliefs is, IMO, negative to the community overall.


----------



## Stereolab42

koiloco said:


> +1.  You said it all.
> 
> Personally, I don't mind ppl spending their hard earned $ any way they see fit but promoting such subjective beliefs is, IMO, negative to the community overall.


 
  
 I'd be careful saying that as a fellow owner of a tube amp... the hardcore objectivists love to trot out THD graphs and so on that pretty solidly demonstrate that tube amps are objectively inferior to solid-state. (Which has nothing to do with whether they sound better, of course.)


----------



## bonesnv

koiloco said:


> +1.  You said it all.
> 
> Personally, I don't mind ppl spending their hard earned $ any way they see fit but promoting such subjective beliefs is, IMO, negative to the community overall.


 
  
 Everything about this hobby is subjective. 
  
  
 Hell, tubes are subjective depending on who you ask.


----------



## bbophead

bonesnv said:


> koiloco said:
> 
> 
> > +1.  You said it all.
> ...


 

 As well as transistors.


----------



## koiloco

There's a difference between sound signature preference(tube vs SS) and components such as pwr cable and audiophile fuse.  If one can't distinguish between the two, I would like not to further this conversation.  Spend your $ as you see fit just please don't say things like a $1000 digital cable would make the 0's and 1's better.


----------



## Silent One

Wait...this (in my BIG O) is about more than simply 1's & 0's. Cable length (think timing and errors) and construction will have something to say. No? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Then choose any number of throw-a-way USB cables - name your gadget and you'll discover a USB cable included) in your system. Okay, for at least 30 days and report back, I mean who doesn't love to save money?! 
  
 Like running water, many of your experiences will vary, but...


----------



## Badas

silent one said:


> Wait...this (in my BIG O) is about more than simply 1's & 0's. Cable length (think timing and errors) and construction will have something to say. No?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes and No. If there was a quality drop off you would hear it. It would be distorted. If the 1's and 0's have reached the target device then a expensive cable would not have made any difference. It is not like analog where quality can drop off. Digital is digital. The end device doesn't care how it got there.
  
 This is where HDMI is handy. It either works or not. If the cable length is too long then the signal can't do the security communication and the signal is cut. If everything is fine it communicates and signal is sent. Once again it gets it's 1's and 0's and doesn't care what cable provided the info.


----------



## Stereolab42

koiloco said:


> There's a difference between sound signature preference(tube vs SS) and components such as pwr cable and audiophile fuse.  If one can't distinguish between the two, I would like not to further this conversation.  Spend your $ as you see fit just please don't say things like a $1000 digital cable would make the 0's and 1's better.


 
  
 Nope, not that simple. This is where a deeper understanding of the digital protocol comes in handy. USB audio streaming is typically implemented using the isochronous transfer type, which has error _detection_ but not error _correction_. This means corrupted packets are not resent, and the DAC must cover for them, to the detriment of SQ.
  
 In contrast if you have an external USB SATA drive, that uses the bulk transfer type, which does have error correction. (This also applies to internal SATA cables, which is why audiophile SATA cables are, in fact, bunk.) So while the music data coming off your HD may be reaching your motherboard just fine, the data going back into your DAC may run into issues.
  
 Combine this understanding with the fact that the longer and cheaper your USB cable, and the higher bandwidth of the data being transferred (for example, high-res audio), the more likely you'll see errors. There's a reason the USB 2.0 specification provides for maximum cable lengths. I would also point out that video over HDMI does not have error correction, so the above discussion applies to HDMI cables as well. Try running a cheap HDMI cable 75' and see what I mean... it's not going to cut out all at once, I'm afraid.
  
 Any more questions?


----------



## bfreedma

Just one.

Your description above is largely correct though there are a few oversimplifications, but for the sake of argument, it's accurate enough.

How does that support the conclusion that a 6' audiophile digital cable will resolve any of them in a way a 6' properly constructed "utility grade" cable would not?


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> I would also point out that video over HDMI does not have error correction, so the above discussion applies to HDMI cables as well. Try running a cheap HDMI cable 75' and see what I mean... it's not going to cut out all at once, I'm afraid.
> Any more questions?


 
  
 Not really a discussion for here. But HDMI either cuts out or produces the sparkling effect where you know you have problems. If it doesn't produce either of these effects you are ready to go. There has been many major shootouts by respected video experts. The HT industry was tearing itself apart with HDMI. The experts all concluded that there was a lot of snake oil being sold. As long as you don't have the two documented problems it didn't matter if the cable was cheap or expensive. Since then all the expensive cables being marketed have gone into the shadows.


----------



## Feedbacker

Struggling to follow all the above clever stuff; Led Zeppelin IV new remastered version coursing through my WA6-SE is all I know, and the world is good!!!
  
 Cheers everybody!


----------



## Silent One

badas said:


> *Yes and No.* If there was a quality drop off you would hear it. It would be distorted. If the 1's and 0's have reached the target device then a expensive cable would not have made any difference. It is not like analog where quality can drop off. Digital is digital. The end device doesn't care how it got there.
> 
> This is where HDMI is handy. It either works or not. If the cable length is too long then the signal can't do the security communication and the signal is cut. If everything is fine it communicates and signal is sent. Once again it gets it's 1's and 0's and doesn't care what cable provided the info.


 
_Not so fast. _The whole "It's just 1's & 0's" or "Bits are bits" use to be the mantra and was based on what we knew about Digital Audio. The industry has since learned there's more to it than that. 
  
 And to be clear, I'm not suggesting one's system has to have high-end USB cables, overpriced USB cables to make it hop! I am suggesting for those holding on to that mantra to run out and employ generic USB cables, be they from printers, cameras, whatever...and be happy. At the end of the day it's just audio people. 
  
  


feedbacker said:


> Struggling to follow all the above clever stuff; Led Zeppelin IV new remastered version coursing through my WA6-SE is all I know, and the world is good!!!
> 
> Cheers everybody!


----------



## Badas

silent one said:


> _Not so fast. _The whole "It's just 1's & 0's" or "Bits are bits" use to be the mantra and was based on what we knew about Digital Audio. The industry has since learned there's more to it than that.
> 
> And to be clear, I'm not suggesting one's system has to have high-end USB cables, overpriced USB cables to make it hop! I am suggesting for those holding on to that mantra to run out and employ generic USB cables, be they from printers, cameras, whatever...and be happy. At the end of the day it's just audio people.


 
  
 Oh I agree. I never buy cheap cables and most cables that come with gear get thrown away (Oppo is the exception, their cables are excellent). I think we are on the same page. Just those super expensive cables are a joke. Just like super expensive tubes on fleabay. Shop around and you get the same thing cheaper.
  
 For the record I don't use USB on any of my audio. Coax, Optical and Analog only.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> For the record I don't use USB on any of my audio. Coax, Optical and Analog only.


 
  
 You might be missing out, depending on your gear. My Vega DAC has an excellent USB implementation that, to my ears, sounds noticeably better than SPDIF (via co-ax or toslink - doesn't matter).
  
 The USB is asynchronous, allowing the Vega to do it's magic in it's own time with the femto clocks and other goodies packed under the hood - result - audibly better sound. At least, that is my understanding - could be wrong in the details - don't care really - what matters is the sound, and for the Vega and my ears, USB trumps SPDIF everytime.
  
 I'd suggest you try both SPDIF and USB on your gear and let your ears decide.
  
 Not wanting to add more fuel to the cable debate, but I have tried a 1m $300 audiophile USB cable and a 5m $10 USB cable - and I can't hear a difference at all. No difference in drop outs or SQ or anything else using the Vega in 'Exact' clock mode. I believe what I can hear - and fancy USB cables don't make the cut.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> You might be missing out, depending on your gear. My Vega DAC has an excellent USB implementation that, to my ears, sounds noticeably better than SPDIF (via co-ax or toslink - doesn't matter).
> 
> The USB is asynchronous, allowing the Vega to do it's magic in it's own time with the femto clocks and other goodies packed under the hood - result - audibly better sound. At least, that is my understanding - could be wrong in the details - don't care really - what matters is the sound, and for the Vega and my ears, USB trumps SPDIF everytime.
> 
> ...


 

 So would I just go from my Arcam DrDock to my Oppo? I don't use a computer.
  


  
 Edit: I just remembered I can't do that. The USB is a power supply on the Arcam Dock.


----------



## Stereolab42

bfreedma said:


> Just one.
> 
> Your description above is largely correct though there are a few oversimplifications, but for the sake of argument, it's accurate enough.
> 
> How does that support the conclusion that a 6' audiophile digital cable will resolve any of them in a way a 6' properly constructed "utility grade" cable would not?


 
  
 Because the audiophile cable may be constructed in a way to resist (the uncorrectable) packet errors. Better shielding, thicker wire, better connection points. My rule-of-thumb is you should spend about 10% of the cost of your system on accessories... specifically, those accessories for which there is some argument that SQ could be improved (even if completely theoretical). Why take the risk of invalidating the immense cost of an expensive system because you didn't foresee or forestall an issue in some other part of the chain? Pascal's wager.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

badas said:


> Oh I agree. I never buy cheap cables and most cables that come with gear get thrown away (Oppo is the exception, their cables are excellent). I think we are on the same page. Just those super expensive cables are a joke. Just like super expensive tubes on fleabay. Shop around and you get the same thing cheaper.
> 
> For the record I don't use USB on any of my audio. Coax, Optical and Analog only.


 

 Why not?


----------



## Badas

birdmanofct said:


> Why not?


 

 Because I don't use a computer for audio playback.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

badas said:


> Because I don't use a computer for audio playback.


 

 Duh. LOL!


----------



## bbophead

badas said:


> birdmanofct said:
> 
> 
> > Why not?
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## bpcans

badas said:


> Oh I agree. I never buy cheap cables and most cables that come with gear get thrown away (Oppo is the exception, their cables are excellent). I think we are on the same page. Just those super expensive cables are a joke. Just like super expensive tubes on fleabay. Shop around and you get the same thing cheaper.
> 
> For the record I don't use USB on any of my audio. Coax, Optical and Analog only.


I only ask this question because of the recent discussion. I purchased an AQ Carbon USB cable today for use with my Peachtree DAC•ITx. Did I get ripped off? Full disclosure, I paid $130 for a 3m cord which usually retails for about twice that.


----------



## bfreedma

stereolab42 said:


> bfreedma said:
> 
> 
> > Just one.
> ...




I don't see how better shielding, thicker wire, or improved connections can resist packet errors in a normal home environment, but those can be had for less than $20. No issue with whatever you choose to spend, but the claims of improved performance are where I get off the bus. Using Pascal's wager to validate the cost is a losing proposition in this example as theoretically, no element in an audio setup is perfect so you end up in a Pascal loop, forever seeking the next theoretical "weakest link in the chain".

Can you be more specific as to how cable construction could reduce packet errors?


----------



## bonesnv

Science forum is thattaway.


----------



## Badas

bpcans said:


> I only ask this question because of the recent discussion. I purchased an AQ Carbon USB cable today for use with my Peachtree DAC•ITx. Did I get ripped off? Full disclosure, I paid $130 for a 3m cord which usually retails for about twice that.


 

 I would say and guess you did good. I don't think that is un-reasonable for a long good cable.


----------



## bpcans

badas said:


> I would say and guess you did good. I don't think that is un-reasonable for a long good cable.


Wooh, I feel like I dodged a bullet there. And right as I typed the last sentence SRV starts to play "Crossfire". Badas, your the best my friend! Now I can get some sleep if this ballgame doesn't go too late. Go Frisco!


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> Nope, not that simple. This is where a deeper understanding of the digital protocol comes in handy. USB audio streaming is typically implemented using the isochronous transfer type, which has error _detection_ but not error _correction_. This means corrupted packets are not resent, and the DAC must cover for them, to the detriment of SQ.
> 
> In contrast if you have an external USB SATA drive, that uses the bulk transfer type, which does have error correction. (This also applies to internal SATA cables, which is why audiophile SATA cables are, in fact, bunk.) So while the music data coming off your HD may be reaching your motherboard just fine, the data going back into your DAC may run into issues.
> 
> ...


 
 Not really! I have seen answers like yours over and over for way too many years.  In HP related context, we are not talking about 75' cable and cheap/non functioning digital cable here.  A well constructed $30 Belkin USB cable will be just as good and error free as a $500 one.  I am a computer hw/sw engineer so my understanding of both digital and analog protocols are quite decent. There's no need to appeal to knowledge authority,oversimplify things and point to extreme cases which are often not applicable in the common HP related usage to strengthen and support your hypothesis.  This practice often confuses non technical people very much and has the exact intended influence when used by individuals promoting the sales of these "audiophile" components. 
  
 Btw, I am also in the bay area.  If you are up for it, let's do some blind tests between your digital cables and mine (under 15' of course).  Maybe, both of us will learn something.  
We can even make it more interesting.  If you can tell that your cable is in the chain 8/10 times, I will pay for your cable.  If you fail, you pay for mine.  




 
  
 I know we are all passionate about what we believe in but let's stop and not turn this thread into another cable debate.


----------



## Stereolab42

Enough. Jude has made it clear that DBT and ABX discussion in the context of cables is restricted to the Sound Science forum because the discussion always goes exactly where it's gone above -- nowhere.


----------



## koiloco

bfreedma said:


> I don't see how better shielding, thicker wire, or improved connections can resist packet errors in a normal home environment, but those can be had for less than $20. No issue with whatever you choose to spend, but the claims of improved performance are where I get off the bus. Using Pascal's wager to validate the cost is a losing proposition in this example as theoretically, no element in an audio setup is perfect so you end up in a Pascal loop, forever seeking the next theoretical "weakest link in the chain".
> 
> Can you be more specific as to how cable construction could reduce packet errors?


 
 +1.  Let's stop cuz you know where this discussion will end up and you won't get an answer that really does any good.


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> Enough. Jude has made it clear that DBT and ABX discussion in the context of cables is restricted to the Sound Science forum because the discussion always goes exactly where it's gone above -- nowhere.


 
 +1.  
 Not taking my wager?  we can just do it for lunch instead of paying for each other's cable.  You sound like an interesting guy.  I'll be happy to buy you lunch and have an opportunity to expand my understanding about digital protocols.  Never stop learning is my life directive.


----------



## bonesnv

Woo doesn't make cables, so the entire discussion is moot for the sake of this thread.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

stereolab42 said:


> Enough. Jude has made it clear that DBT and ABX discussion in the context of cables is restricted to the Sound Science forum because the discussion always goes exactly where it's gone above -- nowhere.


 

 Thanks. Didn't know that. I'm sure there's some new-people-read-this-first thread that I bypassed.


----------



## Stereolab42

Good thread on the Tak 300Bs:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/571323/takatsuki-electric-ta-300b
  
 But the most interesting part was learning that there existed a NOS competitor to the WE 300B, called the STC 4300B and made in England. Apparently it's far rarer and supposedly sounds even better. Somebody on that thread was able to get one but none appear to be for sale now anywhere.


----------



## lojay

Guys, I'm almost done with my mega comparative review of the Eddie Current 4-45 and Woo WA5, with specific references to tracks, tubes used etc. Stay tuned.


----------



## Khragon

Looking forward to your comparison, EC 445 is on my radar..


----------



## lojay

khragon said:


> Looking forward to your comparison, EC 445 is on my radar..


 
  
 Hi. I have done a detailed shootout for the Woo WA5 and the EC 4-45. If you are interested please see the following thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/740466/epic-woo-wa5-eddie-current-4-45-shootout


----------



## kokushu

Thank you lojay.  You make me regret buying the Woo Audio 5 lol.


----------



## lojay

kokushu said:


> Thank you lojay.  You make me regret buying the Woo Audio 5 lol.


 
  
 From my experience in the Head-Fi journey, make do with what you have. So start modding your HD800 and get a HE-6 now! 
  
 Besides, I will be missing the euphony of the WA5 and ironically, the emotion conveyed by the mass of strings sounding like its one man playing. The WA5 is really special.


----------



## Badas

I did a massive session on my WA22 last night. 10PM to 5.30AM. Figured I better get off as it was close to the eight hours use. Just got three hours sleep and now I'm back on listening to some Steely Dan. 

I'm having way too much Woo-hoo fun.


----------



## Khragon

badas said:


> I did a massive session on my WA22 last night. 10PM to 5.30AM. Figured I better get off as it was close to the eight hours use. Just got three hours sleep and now I'm back on listening to some Steely Dan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha.. I'm doing similar thing, although I can't stay up that much anymore, getting old.  I'm live burning in the amp.  Think this will be my tube configuration for a while, SERPs + TG BGRP + Mullar CV593:


----------



## kokushu

Well I listen to speaker 90% anyway these days so it probably better I have WA 5.  My speaker is inefficient and going to need every watt the amp could afford.  Even then, I would probably said I prefer the EC 45 sound if what you describe is true.


----------



## MIKELAP

Scored some RK60 tubes this week from a seller in Montreal ,not to many of those going around and got a great price also. Glenn will be making my adapter for the RK'S hopefully will have it soon .


----------



## Stereolab42

The RK60s are nice. I got mine, plus adapters, from a guy on eBay, who still has some for sale.


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> The RK60s are nice. I got mine, plus adapters, from a guy on eBay, who still has some for sale.


 
            This guy.adapters! They  look alike i would of bought from him but he took his time to answer my questions and was charging me over $40.00 for shipping 2 tubes and adapter so luckily there was my guy here in  town  .no shipping and a good deal i bought 5 tubes


----------



## bbophead

Spooky, man!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

RK60!


----------



## Herueyes

Was doing some research on a WA3 and came across this Madness!!!!!! @ 3:09 the fun really begins....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 Enjoy... (in a touchy feely creepy way)
  
 Peace...


----------



## bbophead

Yeah, I've seen his videos before. 
  
 Bless him.


----------



## TonyNewman

How much amp touching is bad touching? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I adore my WA6 and WA5, but not in that way...


----------



## joseph69

WOW!
 That was real strange!


----------



## Rem0o

Wow nerd/creep level over 9000.


----------



## Stereolab42

Finally got my 300B savers in, so I can go 100% savers on all sockets now (courtesy of eBay seller "xulingmrs"):
  

  
  
 Swapped back in the Meshes to try to get a better idea how they compare to the SERPs. Also got some new Sylvania brown bases.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Finally got my 300B savers in, so I can go 100% savers on all sockets now (courtesy of eBay seller "xulingmrs"):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 EML 300B mesh? I'd be very interested in any comments you might have on the SERPs vs mesh. I have SERPs and my next 300Bs might be the EML mesh.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Finally got my 300B savers in, so I can go 100% savers on all sockets now (courtesy of eBay seller "xulingmrs"):
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Congrats. Thanks for your recommendation on the savers as well.

I have to say that is the most amazing photo I have seen on this site for such a long time.

Enjoy it is amazing.


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> EML 300B mesh? I'd be very interested in any comments you might have on the SERPs vs mesh. I have SERPs and my next 300Bs might be the EML mesh.


 
  
 No, just the cheaper Sophia Meshes, which are my backup tubes. If I do buy another high-end pair of 300Bs it will likely be the EMLs.
  


badas said:


> Congrats. Thanks for your recommendation on the savers as well.
> 
> I have to say that is the most amazing photo I have seen on this site for such a long time.
> 
> Enjoy it is amazing.


 
  
 Thanks, I just got a DSLR (Canon SL1) and there is no comparison with the crappy point-and-shoots, lol.


----------



## bonesnv

herueyes said:


> Was doing some research on a WA3 and came across this Madness!!!!!! @ 3:09 the fun really begins....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
  
 It puts the deoxit on the RCA jack or else it gets the power cable again...


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> No, just the cheaper Sophia Meshes, which are my backup tubes. If I do buy another high-end pair of 300Bs it will likely be the EMLs.


 
  
 Are you liking the SERPs?
  
 I found the SERPs a big step up from the Sophia meshes (as they should be @ $1200 bucks a pair). The extension up and down is very good. My EATs come close, but no other 300B I have matches the bass from the SERPs.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Can the WA7 be set on top the Matrix X-Sabre without being a weight issue or a heat issue?
  
 Edit: and how would that (Matrix X-Sabre -> WA7) pair with HD800 ?


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Are you liking the SERPs?
> 
> I found the SERPs a big step up from the Sophia meshes (as they should be @ $1200 bucks a pair). The extension up and down is very good. My EATs come close, but no other 300B I have matches the bass from the SERPs.


 
  
 Yes, I am. Took a couple dozen hours to burn in properly but they produce a strong, dynamic, but liquid sound that is simply delicious. The meshes I have in now are clumsier, but they are also not even close to burnt in. I will keep them in for a few more days for a fairer comparison.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Yes, I am. Took a couple dozen hours to burn in properly but they produce a strong, dynamic, but liquid sound that is simply delicious. The meshes I have in now are clumsier, but they are also not even close to burnt in. I will keep them in for a few more days for a fairer comparison.


 
  
 I love the sound of high-end 300Bs - yummy, yummy stuff - only downside is the price. Flagship 300Bs are just crazy in the pricing.
  
 My big rig amp uses 2A3s driving 845s - the 2A3s are roughly half the price, and the 845s the same price, as an equivalent 300B.
  
 I cannot believe that it takes half the effort and/or materials to make a 2A3 vs a 300B, or the same for 845 vs 300B. The 845 is a big bugger of a tube that smacks out 20-24W of audio goodness - how can it have the same pricing as the eqivalent 300B?
  
 Perhaps the pricing of vintage WE300B has skewed the market pricing for all 300Bs? I'm not sure why it is the way it is, but it is strange.


----------



## Stereolab42

99% camera, 1% skill (I just learned what an "aperture" is yesterday):


----------



## bpcans

Stereolab42, great pics sir!


----------



## Badas

^^^

I bow to you sir. Do you mind if I use the second pic as a desktop?


----------



## bbophead

Great shots!  Thanks.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> ^^^
> 
> I bow to you sir. Do you mind if I use the second pic as a desktop?


 
  
 No problem. My only regret is the 6SN7s weren't really glowing. I will try again with the Sophia 6SN7s, maybe they will.


----------



## koiloco

stereolab42 said:


> 99% camera, 1% skill (I just learned what an "aperture" is yesterday):


 
  
 Now all you need is a new camera.


----------



## kokushu

Well just order my EML 300b mesh.  It will arrive on friday.  Hope it sound good as everybody said.


----------



## Monsterzero

So im the proud owner of a Woo Audio WA2 and Beyer T1,and Sennheiser 600s.
 I consider both of these cans to be neutral and although I never listen to my 600s(more for my g/f)I do enjoy the T1s quite a bit.
 I want to add a 3rd set of cans with a "little" more bass,not basshead bass,but something that will deliver clean tight bass with more thump than the T1s and still have good imaging and soundstage....rock,metal,psybient,folk,trance is primary listening choices
 Anyone have suggestions on something that would work well with my WA2? 300-1000usd


----------



## OldSkool

monsterzero said:


> So im the proud owner of a Woo Audio WA2 and Beyer T1,and Sennheiser 600s.
> I consider both of these cans to be neutral and although I never listen to my 600s(more for my g/f)I do enjoy the T1s quite a bit.
> I want to add a 3rd set of cans with a "little" more bass,not basshead bass,but something that will deliver clean tight bass with more thump than the T1s and still have good imaging and soundstage....rock,metal,psybient,folk,trance is primary listening choices
> Anyone have suggestions on something that would work well with my WA2? 300-1000usd


 

 LCD2.2 w/fazor


----------



## GalaxyGuy

oldskool said:


> LCD2.2 w/fazor


 

 +1


----------



## Monsterzero

oldskool said:


> LCD2.2 w/fazor


 

 thanks for that...I read a bit about it online and it appears all new models are Fazor-ized.If I opt for a used pair how will I know if what im buying is the Fazor?


----------



## grokit

monsterzero said:


> it appears all new models are Fazor-ized.If I opt for a used pair how will I know if what im buying is the Fazor?


 
  
 They have bumps you can feel through the fabric covering the drivers, from what I've read it's pretty obvious if you know what to look (feel) for.


----------



## jaywillin

yes, it's pretty easy, the non-fazor will have  flat feeling bars , where the fazor will have pointed ridges


----------



## OldSkool

monsterzero said:


> thanks for that...I read a bit about it online and it appears all new models are Fazor-ized.If I opt for a used pair how will I know if what im buying is the Fazor?


 

 If memory serves, the Fazor version started shipping at the start of 2014 and the serial number will begin with 54xxxxx.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Sent my non-fazor LCD-3 in to fix a membrane a few months back.  When I got it back, it was upgraded to Fazor...with no cost on me.  Thank you very much, Audeze!


----------



## Stereolab42

stereolab42 said:


> Yes, I am. Took a couple dozen hours to burn in properly but they produce a strong, dynamic, but liquid sound that is simply delicious. The meshes I have in now are clumsier, but they are also not even close to burnt in. I will keep them in for a few more days for a fairer comparison.


 
  
 Meh, I've swapped back in the SERPs. They are a big step above the Sophia Meshes, as they should be; quality of imaging is probably the biggest difference. (But they don't glow as much!) Looking forward to kokushu's report on the EML 300B Meshes. kokushu, what 300B amp do you have, your profile just lists a WA6.


----------



## kokushu

I have the Woo Audio 5.  I got it recently and hadn't update my equipment profile yet.  Originally I save up the fund for the Schiit Ragnarok beta but I didn't get in.  Then I was fortunate to get a good deal on the Woo Audio 5 so I bought it.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> I have the Woo Audio 5.  I got it recently and hadn't update my equipment profile yet.  Originally I save up the fund for the Schiit Ragnarok beta but I didn't get in.  Then I was fortunate to get a good deal on the Woo Audio 5 so I bought it.


 
  
 Congrats - it's a great amp that responds very well to tube rolling - lots of fun to be had experimenting with different tube combinations.


----------



## jaywillin

arrived yesterday evening, and digging it !


----------



## bpcans

jaywillin said:


> arrived yesterday evening, and digging it !
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Hopefully your endtable is plenty sturdy. It looks great!


----------



## jaywillin

bpcans said:


> Hopefully your endtable is plenty sturdy. It looks great!


 
 very sturdy ! its an a/v rack, nothing fancy, but stout !


----------



## bpcans

jaywillin said:


> very sturdy ! its an a/v rack, nothing fancy, but stout !


That's very cool sir. My Woo amp and hp listening station has changed my morning routine. I used to flip on "Morning Joe" on MSNBC with my coffee. Now I turn on the WA6 and play whatever as I answer emails, read the papers, and sometimes even look at head-fi. For me it's a far more relaxing way to get the day going.


----------



## MIKELAP

sko0bydoo said:


> Sent my non-fazor LCD-3 in to fix a membrane a few months back.  When I got it back, it was upgraded to Fazor...with no cost on me.  Thank you very much, Audeze!


 
 Seems its not the first time i hear Audeze having  problems with there HP ,a free fix is always good .is that why they came out with Fazor ?


----------



## jaywillin

bpcans said:


> That's very cool sir. My Woo amp and hp listening station has changed my morning routine. I used to flip on "Morning Joe" on MSNBC with my coffee. Now I turn on the WA6 and play whatever as I answer emails, read the papers, and sometimes even look at head-fi. For me it's a far more relaxing way to get the day going.


 
 i heartily agree !


----------



## Badas

I had to post something light-hearted for the end of the week.
  
 Look at my young boys reaction listening to the Woo / Audeze combo.
  

  
 Doesn't he look like this?


----------



## Khragon

Haha my kids think I am weird wearing such big and heavy headphones


----------



## bbophead

If I know kids, they think what grownups do is mostly weird.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Haha my kids think I am weird wearing such big and heavy headphones


 
  
  


bbophead said:


> If I know kids, they think what grownups do is mostly weird.


 

 He now wants some for his bedroom. He asked if Santa could get them.


----------



## bbophead

Well, Santa?


----------



## Badas

bbophead said:


> Well, Santa?


 





 Yeah right. Not going to happen.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

jaywillin said:


> arrived yesterday evening, and digging it !


 
  
 Very nice!!!  What headphones are you using?


----------



## jaywillin

hifiguy528 said:


> Very nice!!!  What headphones are you using?


 
 right now, i have a new pair of lcd2's, with the fazor
 i have a pair of t1's at BTG audio having mini-xlr's installed in the cups, i can't wait to hear the t1 with the woo


----------



## HiFiGuy528

jaywillin said:


> right now, i have a new pair of lcd2's, with the fazor
> i have a pair of t1's at BTG audio having mini-xlr's installed in the cups, i can't wait to hear the t1 with the woo


 
  
 That's really cool!  T1 is one of my favorite headphones.  Pls. post some pics when it's back.


----------



## jaywillin

hifiguy528 said:


> That's really cool!  T1 is one of my favorite headphones.  Pls. post some pics when it's back.


 
 will do ! deciding on a nice cable for it now too, i have a cable from double helix made of peter's synergy wire, which has some silver in it for the lcd2, but i think i'll go for just copper for the t1


----------



## isquirrel

Hey guys I am finally able to join the Woo's owners club next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have a pair of 234's coming, cannot wait, gave them a good listen on Thursday and was absolutely staggered at how good they sounded. I will be paring them with my Audeze LCD-3's / X's and Lightharmonic DaVinci DAC. Running balanced.
  
 I was wondering about tubes and I have ordered the Sophia Princesses in the 45 Mesh plates Royal Princess 300B's, 274B Mesh plates and 2A3 Sophie Princess.
  
 I ws wondering what to use as the 6SN7 I have many singles of 6SN7 but no pairs: Tung Sol RP BG, RCA red base 5992, Ken Rad staggered plates, RCA grey glass etc etc. I see Woo can supply the Sylvania's are the PSVANE worth considering?


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel, whatever tubes you decide on make sure that they are the very best made and highest rated you can get your hands on. Your new amplifier looks like something from a military research laboratory.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Hey guys I am finally able to join the Woo's owners club next week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow - that's an impressive monster.
  
 I use the Psvane T2 CV-181s (6SN7s) in my WA5 and my big rig TRV-845SE. They are extremely detailed, transparent and extended - they beat every NOS tube I have tried in those areas. The only thing they are lacking is some warmth - they sound perhaps a little 'solid state'. I have also had one tube blow on me in the first 50 hours of burn in (out of 6 tubes), so reliability can be an issue.
  
 Pair them with warmish power tubes and the result is excellent.
  
 The Shuguang Treasure CV-181s are also very good.


----------



## isquirrel

I have ordered all of the tubes from Woo on this page at the bottom:
  
 http://shop.234mono.com//products/wa-234-mono
  
 Also looking at the Psvane's
  
 http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/purchase/psvane-vacuum-tubes/psvane-we-replica-vacuum-tubes/
  
 I wonder how the 6SN7's compare to the TS RP BG?


----------



## Stereolab42

That's awesome. Are you using them with a preamp? I've always figured that's a necessity with the 234s to avoid having to adjust two volume controls at the same time. Or maybe I'm missing something?
  
 It's hard to go wrong with most types of Sylvania 6SN7s. I am a fan of the brown-bases, they are good all-rounders, but are becoming harder to find. The new-production Sophia 6SN7s are also great but a touch hyperdetailed. I switch between them depending on mood. I'm not sure where to go next; the PSVane's don't appear to fit well into the WA5 because they are so damn fat, and I don't know if you'll have the same issue in the 234.


----------



## isquirrel

No preamp, no need to use one, I prefer being able to adjust the channel gain independently.


----------



## bpcans

Anybody running a pair of Shuguang CV181-Z tubes in their Woo WA6 as a 6SN7 replacement?


----------



## isquirrel

There is an interesting read on these here
  
 http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_pt2_e.html


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> There is an interesting read on these here
> 
> http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_pt2_e.html


Thanks isquirrel, in fact I read that very article not an hour ago, which as a result prompted my inquiry. I'm listening to Herbie Hancocks album "River: The Joni Letters" this morning. It's his interpretations of the music of Joni Mitchell. For anybody into jazz, or not, this is really one cool sounding set.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> It's hard to go wrong with most types of Sylvania 6SN7s. I am a fan of the brown-bases, they are good all-rounders, but are becoming harder to find.


 
 +1 Me too


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Anybody running a pair of Shuguang CV181-Z tubes in their Woo WA6 as a 6SN7 replacement?


 
  
 Yes - love them. Excellent tube.
  
 I am using the Woo adapters.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> Wow - that's an impressive monster.
> 
> I use the Psvane T2 CV-181s (6SN7s) in my WA5 and my big rig TRV-845SE. They are extremely detailed, transparent and extended - they beat every NOS tube I have tried in those areas. The only thing they are lacking is some warmth - they sound perhaps a little 'solid state'. I have also had one tube blow on me in the first 50 hours of burn in (out of 6 tubes), so reliability can be an issue.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the PSVane TII CV-181 in my WA5LE (barely fit) but after hours of listening and swapping I changed to a brown base NOS Sylvania 6SN7.  The PSVane is a little crunchy on clean material like jazz and acoustic music, to my ears. The Sylvanias were a bit more transparent, open, and less colored. 
  
 I like the PSVane for rock, but honestly they've been sitting on a shelf for a year, along with a matched pair of Mighty 596s, which lost a tube face off to the EML Mesh 5U4G.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> I have the PSVane TII CV-181 in my WA5LE (barely fit) but after hours of listening and swapping I changed to a brown base NOS Sylvania 6SN7.  The PSVane is a little crunchy on clean material like jazz and acoustic music, to my ears. The Sylvanias were a bit more transparent, open, and less colored.
> 
> I like the PSVane for rock, but honestly they've been sitting on a shelf for a year, along with a matched pair of Mighty 596s, which lost a tube face off to the EML Mesh 5U4G.


 
  
 Did you give them a lengthy burn in? Every Psvane tube I have tried has required a lengthy burn in of around 250->300 hours to reach its best. Prior to the 250->300 hours there is some lingering harshness in the sound.
  
 I'm surprised the EML mesh 5U4G beat the 596. I have the EML mesh 274B that I was using in my WA6 - a very average tube for the money, I thought. The Mullard GZ32, at less than half the price, kills it in every way.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Yes - love them. Excellent tube.
> 
> I am using the Woo adapters.
> 
> ...


Tony, those look really cool in your black WA6. Did you try the Sophia Electric 6SN7's and which rectifier are you running with those smoked glass beauties?


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Tony, those look really cool in your black WA6. Did you try the Sophia Electric 6SN7's and which rectifier are you running with those smoked glass beauties?


 
  
 Funny you should ask - I just swapped out the Shuggies for the Sophias a few minutes ago to give them another try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Currently running a Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica (have a review for it in the Recitfier thread). More often I use a Mullard GZ32.
  
 One thing about the WA6 and fat 6SN7s - like Shuggies and Psvanes - a fat rectifier just won't fit with them.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> Did you give them a lengthy burn in? Every Psvane tube I have tried has required a lengthy burn in of around 250->300 hours to reach its best. Prior to the 250->300 hours there is some lingering harshness in the sound.
> 
> I'm surprised the EML mesh 5U4G beat the 596. I have the EML mesh 274B that I was using in my WA6 - a very average tube for the money, I thought. The Mullard GZ32, at less than half the price, kills it in every way.


 

 I used the PSVane for about 3 or 4 months, they were the first driver I purchased for the amp.  I could given them even more time, but the Sylvania tubes sound quite nice.  There was definitely harshness!  
  
 I'd ask this question-- If I have to listen to 400 hours of crap, just to get to a decent sound, doesn't that mean the tube just kind of sucks?  
  
 The 596-- I couldn't make heads or tails of the bass on that tube.  Not that the EML is gonna light your toes up with bass, it's pretty bass light itself, but I was disappointed by the 596.  The bass was detailed, but not plentiful.  I did think the soundstage was better on the 596 than the EML, I will give it that. But gave away compromises in too many other areas to not go with the EML.  
  
 The best rectifier I've ever heard is the metal base Mullard GZ34.  I had a 1956 that was simply gorgeous, and it sold on eBay for around $600 dollars AFTER I'd used it on my WA6 for a year (I was honest in my description).  I'd love to try a pair of GZ34s in the WA5, but I'm not sure they'd work, and two of those tubes would be over $1000, for the rectifier.  For that kind of cash, I'd rather try the SERP (Currently I have the EML Mesh 300B).


----------



## joseph69

reeltime said:


> I changed to a brown base NOS Sylvania 6SN7.


 
 I've been using these myself since my first WA6!


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Funny you should ask - I just swapped out the Shuggies for the Sophias a few minutes ago to give them another try
> 
> Currently running a Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica (have a review for it in the Recitfier thread). More often I use a Mullard GZ32.
> 
> One thing about the WA6 and fat 6SN7s - like Shuggies and Psvanes - a fat rectifier just won't fit with them.


I suppose I could use a little more bottom(bass) on my current rig. But how much hot chocolate should one put on their lemon sorbet? Is there an endgame rectifier for the WA6 with 6SN7 drivers?


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> I'd ask this question-- If I have to listen to 400 hours of crap, just to get to a decent sound, doesn't that mean the tube just kind of sucks?


 
  
 I take the point. It takes forever to rack up 300+ hours on a tube amp. Sometimes the payoff is large, sometimes it isn't.
  
 I have been very happy with the results from some of the Psvane WE replica series. The WE274B replica has the best bass I have heard from a rectifier in the WA6 (beats the GZ32), but it takes a very long time for the harshness to fade.


----------



## isquirrel

Rolled in my TS RP BG last night, forgot how good it sounds, I am thinking the Shuguang Treasures and or the Psvanes 6SN7's are worth a shot if you are prepared to run them in for extended hours. I have a 1956 Mullard GZ34 metal base with only 100 hours on it if anyone is interested PM me.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Hey guys I am finally able to join the Woo's owners club next week
> 
> I have a pair of 234's coming, cannot wait, gave them a good listen on Thursday and was absolutely staggered at how good they sounded. I will be paring them with my Audeze LCD-3's / X's and Lightharmonic DaVinci DAC. Running balanced.
> 
> ...




Congrats on your new purchase! I'd say for the 6sn7's the best I've heard, out of my WA5, is the 1952 sylvania bad boys. 3 hole plate, polished mica and proper date code. A nice fast detailed response which is still musical. I've also tried ken rads, raytheon vt231, sylvania chrome domes, sylvania metal bases, sylvania 7sn7gt (Non bad boy) and Psvane cv181.
 My top picks in terms of combination if detail and musicality in order are bad boys, Raytheon and then chrome domes. I haven't spent much time with the psvanes just made sure they work as using them with my KR balloon 300b's the glass is about 1mm from touching.
 Though for 300B's I'd say try giving the KR Audio ones a go, I've got the balloon glass but I think the 300BXLS may be nicer. Over the royal princess they're more neutral, better dynamics, faster response and also have more bass control. With the rectifier tubes the full music 274b/+/n is the best I've heard, fast, detailed and plenty of bass response and extension. The Psvane 274b WE replicas come close and the gold lion GZ-34 isn't too far behind in terms of speed anyway. I feel the Sophia mesh to be rather lacking overall for the type if music I listen to. That being said though, for strictly acoustic be it jazz or classical the lush romantic sound of the Sophia royal princess and 274b mesh is hard to top.
 But I can say the KR 300b, full music 274b/+/n and sylvania bad boy combination works perfectly with the WA234.... Too wonderfully, went in yesterday and now I'm waiting for a quote since I'm getting a pre amp output and xlr loop out put on mine. I'd love to try out some eml tubes with it but trying to find a supplier plus the price has put it on the back bench. Especially after the 234...


----------



## isquirrel

Glad you enjoyed listening to my 234's... George told me he had a couple of demo's to go before he shipped them up.
  
 Thank you for the tube suggestions I will try and procure the valves you recommend. Don't think A2A have those.
  
 Any suggestions on where to source them from?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Glad you enjoyed listening to my 234's... George told me he had a couple of demo's to go before he shipped them up.
> 
> Thank you for the tube suggestions I will try and procure the valves you recommend. Don't think A2A have those.
> 
> ...




That was your unit? Well I've got to thank you for the opportunity to demo it then  Though my savings account disagrees, apprentice wages and this hobby don't go too well together...
As for the tubes, I got all of them off eBay, I couldn't find any Australian distributors for the tubes. Though the Fullmusic tubes were from seller listeningchina.hifi.cn, had one tube fail after about two weeks but the pair was replaced under warranty with no issues. The KR tubes were from a bloke in Italy but he doesn't seem to have any listed currently.
Also for EML I'd say head to their international dealer instead of tubeaudio store for buying internationally. I tried to get some 5u4g's and 300BXLS from them, transferred the money, no word back, emailed them and a couple of weeks later they said they had shipped. Waited about two months and then I noticed a refund from them for the price of the tubes. So all together 3 months of waiting around for nothing, wasn't even informed they wouldn't be cancelling my order...
For the NOS drivers it's a bit hit and miss, I've had a few tubes fail after a couple weeks but I just keep a few sets spare in case.


----------



## Khragon

Glad to see some 234's showing up on the forum... congrats guys.  Pictures please when you have a chance, and if brave, internal pics too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Stereolab42

I forgot about the KR 300B balloons. They certainly look cool. I may try them over the EML 300B mesh as a SERP alternative.
  
 (Also, what's up with Australians and ultra-nosebleed headphone setups? Lol.)


----------



## bpcans

stereolab42 said:


> (Also, what's up with Australians and ultra-nosebleed headphone setups? Lol.)


My question exactly. The W234 looks like something that would make your head explode if you even turn it on, let alone plug some headphones into it.


----------



## reeltime

I appreciate the Woo commitment, but at $15,000 to drive headphones, I'd be going Stax and a Blue Hawaii.


----------



## Fririce0003

reeltime said:


> I appreciate the Woo commitment, but at $15,000 to drive headphones, I'd be going Stax and a Blue Hawaii.




I was considering that for a while, having the WA5 and abyss with the BHSE and 009 on the side to get the best of both. But after hearing the Abyss+234 it was just too engaging whilst still having plenty of detail for me to pass up. There's no doubt from me that the 009's through the BHSE are more detailed and they're certainly end game but a completely different flavour compared to the abyss.... The price is very daunting though :S


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> I appreciate the Woo commitment, but at $15,000 to drive headphones, I'd be going Stax and a Blue Hawaii.


 
  
 Or a big rig. 15K buys a lot of amp + floor standing speakers. That is exactly the choice I made - BHSE + SR009, or the big stuff, and I went with the big stuff and have no regrets.
  
 I enjoy headphones immensely, but there are times when a big rig needs some loving too


----------



## Stereolab42

reeltime said:


> I appreciate the Woo commitment, but at $15,000 to drive headphones, I'd be going Stax and a Blue Hawaii.


 
  
 Heard Stax+BHSE multiple times, it's great but easily equaled by WA5+<insert your favorite four-figure headphones>.


----------



## reeltime

I hear ya.  I love the WA5LE (can't drive my Genelecs with a WA-5) both in looks and sound. But after doing some Stax listening... they're definitely in a league of their own.  My HD800s are world class headphones with the right amp (and the WA5LE isn't even the best amp for the HD800), but the 009 and the BHSE?  Nothing better than that to my ears.  
  
 I had the joy of doing A/B listening to the Stax + BHSE and the HD800 + GS-X MkII (which probably is the best amp for the HD800) and though they were close, the Stax was just a bit better in every area.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Or a big rig. 15K buys a lot of amp + floor standing speakers. That is exactly the choice I made - BHSE + SR009, or the big stuff, and I went with the big stuff and have no regrets.
> 
> I enjoy headphones immensely, but there are times when a big rig needs some loving too :wink_face:




Speaker rig is always good to have, sometimes I find headphones to be a tad inconvenient. Upgraded mine at the start of the year, Vienna Acoustic The Kiss, GS-X Mk2 as pre amp and into some Auralic Merak's and a JL F113 for some extra thump  Its been seeing a fair bit more use since the upgrade. But in terms of sheer detail it's still a fair while off reaching the headphone rig, even more so once the 234 arrives 
Though I will say another point in favour of the 009 vs abyss is the fit, Abyss is way too dependant on fit. Some days I'll get it right first go, other days I'll be fiddling with it for a fair while before getting it right...


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> ... Vienna Acoustic The Kiss, GS-X Mk2 as pre amp and into some* Auralic Merak's* and ...


 
  
 Thought long and hard about going for a set of Merak's using my Taurus Mk2 as a pre-amp, but the lure of the SET sound pulled me into the Triode Corp 845 based integrated amp. Something about tubes - it's an addiction I can't let go


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Thought long and hard about going for a set of Merak's using my Taurus Mk2 as a pre-amp, but the lure of the SET sound pulled me into the Triode Corp 845 based integrated amp. Something about tubes - it's an addiction I can't let go :tongue_smile:




There really is something magical about tubes, would've gone for them if the vienna's were a tad more sensitive. But probably best I didn't, tube rolling the WA5 was bad enough, even worse once the 234 arrives. Didn't need that expense on the speaker rig as well, that and I also use the speakers when I'm watching tv or movies. Would wear away at the tube life pretty quick


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> There really is something magical about tubes, would've gone for them if the vienna's were a tad more sensitive. But probably best I didn't, tube rolling the WA5 was bad enough, even worse once the 234 arrives. Didn't need that expense on the speaker rig as well, that and I also use the speakers when I'm watching tv or movies. Would wear away at the tube life pretty quick


 
  
 I am using a 20W 845 based amp to drive Brodmann F2s. These speakers are rated 91dB for 1.8W @ 1m. That works out at just over 88 dB for 1W @ 1m. So these speakers are nothing special in terms of sensitivity. The 20W amp drives them easily - plenty of bass and the gain is around 8 o'clock (barely on) to fill the living room with music.
  
 I was skeptical at first, but then heard a demo of an 8W 300B based integrated amp driving similar speakers with no problems.
  
 All 3 of my tube amps share the 6SN7 driver, and the WA6 and WA5 share rectifiers - which helps.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> I am using a 20W 845 based amp to drive Brodmann F2s. These speakers are rated 91dB for 1.8W @ 1m. That works out at just over 88 dB for 1W @ 1m. So these speakers are nothing special in terms of sensitivity. The 20W amp drives them easily - plenty of bass and the gain is around 8 o'clock (barely on) to fill the living room with music.
> 
> I was skeptical at first, but then heard a demo of an 8W 300B based integrated amp driving similar speakers with no problems.
> 
> All 3 of my tube amps share the 6SN7 driver, and the WA6 and WA5 share rectifiers - which helps.




 I do like the sounds of that, the vienna's might see a bit of 300B loving. Hopefully the 45's have enough drive too, well as long as I'm not too tempted to get some tube mono's... Finances can't take another hit like this in such close succession


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> I do like the sounds of that, the vienna's might see a bit of 300B loving. Hopefully the 45's have enough drive too, well as long as I'm not too tempted to get some tube mono's... Finances can't take another hit like this in such close succession


 
  
 The odd thing is that the Triode 300B 8W integrated amp drove the Brodmann speakers (FS model in the demo) much, much better than the WA5 did. Both are 8W 300B based amps, but I'm guessing it is because one is built primarily as a headphone amp and the other as a speaker amp - horses for courses.
  
 My 845 based amp uses 2A3 tubes to drive the 845s - lovely sound not dissimilar to 300B. Wonderful for vocals and instrumentals, particularly when paired with the Brodmanns. Something about the tube sound in general and SET amps in particular gets me everytime.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> I forgot about the KR 300B balloons. They certainly look cool. I may try them over the EML 300B mesh as a SERP alternative.
> 
> (Also, what's up with Australians and ultra-nosebleed headphone setups? Lol.)


 

 Were so far away we've got nothing better to do....


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Were so far away we've got nothing better to do....


 
  
 When not dodging all the kangaroos and snakes


----------



## isquirrel

And the Crocs !


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> When not dodging all the kangaroos and snakes :wink_face:




Can't forget about the koala's, platypuses, wombats, emu's, red backs and funnel webs, they need some lovin' too. Spoilt for choice down here


----------



## isquirrel

Holy smokes I was just checking out the prices on KR 300B's TubeDepot are nearly double the price of Tube Audio Products ?
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/kr-audio-300b
  
 http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=4#


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> Holy smokes I was just checking out the prices on KR 300B's TubeDepot are nearly double the price of Tube Audio Products ?
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/kr-audio-300b
> 
> http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=4#


 
  
 You just saved me a few hundred dollars sir, this is too good a price. Ordered the balloons.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Holy smokes I was just checking out the prices on KR 300B's TubeDepot are nearly double the price of Tube Audio Products ?
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/kr-audio-300b
> 
> http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=4#




Oh no, why did you have to post that?! Now it's all too tempting to pick up some 300BXLS and 2A3's!


----------



## Khragon

yeah I know.. was thinking the same, which KR should I get? 300b balloon or xls?
  
 *edit*
 saw the xls is the higher power one and needed different amp, got the balloon.


----------



## kokushu

EML distributor told me the same thing about their 300b too.  Now I wonder if they just all agreed to increase their price so we have to paid more.  They basically said that they are going to double the price at the end of the year.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Oh no, why did you have to post that?! Now it's all too tempting to pick up some 300BXLS and 2A3's!


 

 Well you got me onto them.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Do you think the 300BXLS will work in the 234's?


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Well you got me onto them....
> 
> Do you think the 300BXLS will work in the 234's?




Hahaha my bad 
I'd say the XLS should work, it's confirmed to work with the WA5 since the circuitry and the transformers are massively over spec'd so it accommodates the extra current draw. So if say looking at the build of the 234 it should be fine. And I also recall Jack saying it won't draw the full wattage just what the standard 300b draws, though it's always nice to have that extra headroom.


----------



## Khragon

Got an email from http://www.tubeaudioproducts.com to say that they are no longer carrying KR tubes due to QC issues.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> Got an email from http://www.tubeaudioproducts.com to say that they are no longer carrying KR tubes due to QC issues.


 
  
 Yeah, I just noticed the PayPal refund, without even a note to explain why. I suspected it was too good to be true. Well, I'm not paying $900+ for these then.


----------



## Stereolab42

stereolab42 said:


> Yeah, I just noticed the PayPal refund, without even a note to explain why. I suspected it was too good to be true. Well, I'm not paying $900+ for these then.


 
  
 Well my email provider decided to delay all my email by 8+ hours today, it turns out Alfred Kayser (who runs that website) did send me a note right after the refund. He does claim that he stopped selling KR Audio tubes because of massive quality control issues. Basically they started using inferior parts/techniques. Now this tubedepot.com page paints a very different picture:
  
https://www.tubedepot.com/t/brands/kr-audio
  
 But given the amount of money involved I see no reason to take a risk, absent further data.


----------



## Fririce0003

stereolab42 said:


> Well my email provider decided to delay all my email by 8+ hours today, it turns out Alfred Kayser (who runs that website) did send me a note right after the refund. He does claim that he stopped selling KR Audio tubes because of massive quality control issues. Basically they started using inferior parts/techniques. Now this tubedepot.com page paints a very different picture:
> 
> https://www.tubedepot.com/t/brands/kr-audio
> 
> ...




Hmm fair enough on their part, wouldn't want to be selling off possibly defective goods along with the headache that'd go with returns.
 But sort of surprised about the QC issues, my 300B balloons have been running smoothly and have nice thick glass on them. Was actually surprised about the extra weight to them vs the Sophia princesses, of which I've replaced twice under warranty.


----------



## isquirrel

Hmm, speedbump, needs further investigation could any number of reasons other than the stated one. Might see if I can contact KR direct.


----------



## isquirrel

Anyone using one of these ?
  
 http://www.antipodesaudio.com/index.html


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Anyone using one of these ?
> 
> http://www.antipodesaudio.com/index.html




I'm running the old DS, the version before the DXe and newer DS came in. It's got the same specs as the new DS but a better power supply.
 It's very transparent, hooked up to the Luxman DA-06 it's almost indistinguishable from the Luxman D-06 SACD. I actually prefer it, it still had that smooth, musical, liquid Luxman mid but also a tad more detail retreival. I was using a light harmonic USB with the USB power turned off on the antipodes.
 The new DX with the SSD's is supposed to be a noticeable step up, better storage medium, better disc reader and a better power supply. A bit disappointed it wasn't in at the start if the year when I got mine...
 Though one thing is the software to tag and organise the music library is a bit fiddley at times and if you're ripping and playing back at the same time it'll take a little time between tracks, not much, but not gapless. Also if you're using it with a Telstra T-Hub modem router and a wireless access point going to the Ethernet port it'll occasionally drop out or fail to connect, the T-Hub wireless is hopeless. So I'd hardwire to get around that if you're able to, I've just been too lazy to chase an Ethernet cable down the wall.


----------



## fhuang

fririce0003 said:


> Hmm fair enough on their part, wouldn't want to be selling off possibly defective goods along with the headache that'd go with returns.
> But sort of surprised about the QC issues, my 300B balloons have been running smoothly and have nice thick glass on them. Was actually surprised about the extra weight to them vs the Sophia princesses, of which I've replaced twice under warranty.


 
  
  
 i got a pair, balloons too, last year or maybe longer(i don't remember) and there was a slight, very slightly unbalance.  the left was tiny bit louder.  lucky i got one from a local dealer so i exchanged another pair.  i wonder if i can hear it if i was using speaker amp.


----------



## fhuang

fririce0003 said:


> Hahaha my bad
> I'd say the XLS should work, it's confirmed to work with the WA5 since the circuitry and the transformers are massively over spec'd so it accommodates the extra current draw. So if say looking at the build of the 234 it should be fine. And I also recall Jack saying it won't draw the full wattage just what the standard 300b draws, though it's always nice to have that extra headroom.


 
  
  
 i didn't know.  i got them only because they were on sale at that time.  i asked before and i checked too but i didn't find much information.  i've been using them a while so i think it's safe to use kr audio 300b balloon with wa5


----------



## Fririce0003

fhuang said:


> i didn't know.  i got them only because they were on sale at that time.  i asked before and i checked too but i didn't find much information.  i've been using them a while so i think it's safe to use kr audio 300b balloon with wa5




 Yeah the 300B balloon is safe to use, the plate voltage and current and everything else is the same as the standard 300B, only the glass is different. The XLS has a higher plate current and a higher maximum plate voltage which let's it put out 14-25W in class A. Got it confirmed by Jack that the 300BXLS will work, but the woo gear runs it at 300B spec so you won't get the 14W specified output. The 320BXLS takes the output even further, but he said they weren't compatible.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> I'm running the old DS, the version before the DXe and newer DS came in. It's got the same specs as the new DS but a better power supply.
> It's very transparent, hooked up to the Luxman DA-06 it's almost indistinguishable from the Luxman D-06 SACD. I actually prefer it, it still had that smooth, musical, liquid Luxman mid but also a tad more detail retreival. I was using a light harmonic USB with the USB power turned off on the antipodes.
> The new DX with the SSD's is supposed to be a noticeable step up, better storage medium, better disc reader and a better power supply. A bit disappointed it wasn't in at the start if the year when I got mine...
> Though one thing is the software to tag and organise the music library is a bit fiddley at times and if you're ripping and playing back at the same time it'll take a little time between tracks, not much, but not gapless. Also if you're using it with a Telstra T-Hub modem router and a wireless access point going to the Ethernet port it'll occasionally drop out or fail to connect, the T-Hub wireless is hopeless. So I'd hardwire to get around that if you're able to, I've just been too lazy to chase an Ethernet cable down the wall.


 

 Thanks, that confirms it, I had been told that once you use one of these its bye bye laptop so I have ordered the DX, thank for the feedback on the wireless - I will go direct ethernet. The DX is still a few weeks away apparently.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Yeah the 300B balloon is safe to use, the plate voltage and current and everything else is the same as the standard 300B, only the glass is different. The XLS has a higher plate current and a higher maximum plate voltage which let's it put out 14-25W in class A. Got it confirmed by Jack that the 300BXLS will work, but the woo gear runs it at 300B spec so you won't get the 14W specified output. The 320BXLS takes the output even further, but he said they weren't compatible.


 

 So thats a no on running the BXLS on the 234's?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Anyone using one of these ?
> 
> http://www.antipodesaudio.com/index.html


 
  
 My experience with a DXe with an Auralic Vega was not a happy one. This is the only big ticket hifi purchase I have made that I totally regret. For some reason the DXe does not want to play nicely with the Vega.
  
 To summarise the issues:

Software would freeze after every 2 to 3 songs when playing .m4a files.
Moving to FLAC files fixed the freezing, but when using 'Exact' clock mode on the Vega *every *song would have a drop out of around 1 second a few seconds into the playback.
Setting the Vega clock back from 'Exact' to 'Fine' or 'Auto' would give a drop out every 4 or 5 tracks. That is still not acceptable to me. If I pay 3K for a music server it should support the best clock setting my DAC has - this device can't even support the second best clock setting on the Vega. It should also support .m4a files.
  
 I contacted the retailer, who put me in touch with the designer/manufacturer (since we all reside here in NZ). I won't give the details of that exchange unless folks want to hear it - bottom line is that the issues I am having are beyond the user's ability to fix. There are no config settings I can adjust ... etc. The unit arrives with the firmware and software pre-loaded - and it is what it is (mine has the latest firmware loaded).
  
 After all this unsatisfying drama I tried again using my PC (3 year old windows machine) as a server to the Vega. It worked flawlessly, in 'Exact' clock mode, for hours on end, with any file type I threw at it (wav/flac/m4a). Maxing out the buffers on the Vega's windows driver gives a rock solid result. This PC has no special tweaks or hardware or anything else - it is a stock PC running Media Monkey to the Vega via a $5 USB cable.
  
 Keep in mind what a music server is delivering to the DAC - an asynchronous data stream of binary information - not an audio signal. I found my PC did a better job and the sonic result was identical to my ears (apart from the drop outs via the DXe). I also get to chose which the software and file types to use with my PC.
  
 I have purchased an upgraded PC that will become my personal PC, and my 'old' PC will become my music server. The DXe is currently back in it's box gathering dust on my shelf. Not sure what to do with it - I am having trouble selling it in good conscience given the issues I have had.
  
 The DXe might be wonderful with a different DAC - I don't know. For me it was a wasted purchase when paired with the Vega. YMMV.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> So thats a no on running the BXLS on the 234's?




300BXLS will work fine just not the 320BXLS, did you receive my email about the tube comparability chart? If not the 234 has the same rectifier and driver comparability as the WA5.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> 300BXLS will work fine just not the 320BXLS, did you receive my email about the tube comparability chart? If not the 234 has the same rectifier and driver comparability as the WA5.


 

 Matt, sorry I haven't received it, okay so the BXLS are back in the mix, would still like to get some comfort re potential QC issues.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> My experience with a DXe with an Auralic Vega was not a happy one. This is the only big ticket hifi purchase I have made that I totally regret. For some reason the DXe does not want to play nicely with the Vega.
> 
> To summarise the issues:
> 
> ...




Hmm that's rather strange, I'm running my DS with a vega and it switches over to exact without much fuss. Sometimes when I just change it over it'll drop out a couple of time as the clock syncs up and again sometimes if the bit rate changes, though it usually stabilises after 10 seconds at most. If that doesn't do the trick I just pause, change inputs to reset the clock and then change back to USB.
What cable are you using, I noticed this more when using a wire world platinum starlight cable. I've since changed to a light harmonic, but the firmware was also updated to the squeezebox control at the same time so it may or may not have been due to the cable.


----------



## isquirrel

Hmm, so many new music servers coming onto the market now maybe its time to sit back and let the dust settle.
  
 Ones of note are the new Astell & Kern AT500N though that doesn't have USB output, but looks great, I am having heart palpitations thinking of how that would look next to the DaVinci.... Darth Vader come on down.
  
 Then's there the Baetis Ref Media Server www.baetisaudio.com - friends in the US tell me its special.


----------



## isquirrel

Scratch the Baetis, I have just spent 30 minutes being lectured by the arrogant owner John. Now I don't care if he has the best sounding media server, apparently none of us on head-fi have the faintest idea of how computer audio should work.
  
 Right oh, move along.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Scratch the Baetis, I have just spent 30 minutes being lectured by the arrogant owner John. Now I don't care if he has the best sounding media server, apparently none of us on head-fi have the faintest idea of how computer audio should work.
> 
> Right oh, move along.


I just read a referenced article by John Mingo on the Beatis web site. Is Mr. Beatis the gentleman who you spoke with for 30 minutes and was not impressed by his positions on computer based audiophile sound, or was he something else altogether, like very very arrogant?


----------



## isquirrel

Same guy. Lets put it this way, I am no expert on computer audio, I am just trying swim through the new world, but it helps when someone who is trying to explain something to you works with your knowledge however pleb-bite that may be......


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Same guy. Lets put it this way, I am no expert on computer audio, I am just trying swim through the new world, but it helps when someone who is trying to explain something to you works with your knowledge however pleb-bite that may be......


Oh, I understand. Your merely a simple lover of music who can't understand the primary basics of computer audio. lol. When he stated early in his article that it was his contention that JRiver was the best music playing software, and at the end that his company made Windows based computers, I thought I kinda saw where he was comin from.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Hey everybody, this just went live.  http://en-us.sennheiser.com/wooaudio


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Hmm that's rather strange, I'm running my DS with a vega and it switches over to exact without much fuss. Sometimes when I just change it over it'll drop out a couple of time as the clock syncs up and again sometimes if the bit rate changes, though it usually stabilises after 10 seconds at most. If that doesn't do the trick I just pause, change inputs to reset the clock and then change back to USB.
> What cable are you using, I noticed this more when using a wire world platinum starlight cable. I've since changed to a light harmonic, but the firmware was also updated to the squeezebox control at the same time so it may or may not have been due to the cable.


 
  
 My DXe does not play nice. Perhaps I have a dud unit - really don't care anymore - fed up with trying to get the stupid thing to work properly so am moving on to PC based music server that ticks all the boxes for me (exact mode, supports all the media file types I use, can adjust the buffer settings via the vega windows driver, user selected software and upgrades).


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> My DXe does not play nice. Perhaps I have a dud unit - really don't care anymore - fed up with trying to get the stupid thing to work properly so am moving on to PC based music server that ticks all the boxes for me (exact mode, supports all the media file types I use, can adjust the buffer settings via the vega windows driver, user selected software and upgrades).




Can certainly see how that would be frustrating after spending that amount of cash. If you're located near me I might be able to bring down my vega and cables to try it out with your DXe or try my DS with your vega.


----------



## regular.guy

I finally just picked up a pair of EML 300b's, Frank I digs them, and a pair of RCA 5U4G's for my WA5!  Finally upgrading my Shuguang 300b-98's.  Man, this hobby is expensive.  I didn't tell my wife how much I spent on the tubes she would be mad! Loved Dubstep Girl's rectifier shootout. Didn't go for the EML 300b BLX, as I don't use my WA5 for a speaker amp, and the Meshies are $810!  Can't decide to get the HE-6 or the LCD 2/3.  I have the Shuguang 181-Z's and I'm not sure they are much better then the GE 6SN7's that came with the unit, more detail, but less bass.


----------



## bbophead

I'm thinkin' you're anything but "regular guy".


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> Oh, I understand. Your merely a simple lover of music who can't understand the primary basics of computer audio. lol. When he stated early in his article that it was his contention that JRiver was the best music playing software, and at the end that his company made Windows based computers, I thought I kinda saw where he was comin from.


 
  


bpcans said:


> Oh, I understand. Your merely a simple lover of music who can't understand the primary basics of computer audio. lol. When he stated early in his article that it was his contention that JRiver was the best music playing software, and at the end that his company made Windows based computers, I thought I kinda saw where he was comin from.


 

 Not sure how to take that !
  
 I was wondering if it was possible to get the media files onto his windows based computer by way of the Mac system, as my RAID drive has a thunderbolt connection. So its about if its possible to integrate the 2.


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Can certainly see how that would be frustrating after spending that amount of cash. If you're located near me I might be able to bring down my vega and cables to try it out with your DXe or try my DS with your vega.


 
  
 Bit of a drive and a swim to Auckland from Melbourne 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but thanks for the offer - appreciated.
  
 Melbourne is my home town, but I ended up in the land of sheep and funny accents 10+ years ago.


----------



## isquirrel

Hey Tony,
  
 Whats your preference with 6SN7 or CV181's do you prefer the Treasures over the Psvanes ?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Bit of a drive and a swim to Auckland from Melbourne
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And we are glad to have ya.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Bit of a drive and a swim to Auckland from Melbourne :wink_face:  but thanks for the offer - appreciated.
> 
> Melbourne is my home town, but I ended up in the land of sheep and funny accents 10+ years ago.




 Hahaha yeah might be a bit of a hike, hmm surprised he couldn't sort the issue out with you. Heard that he's based in NZ as well so I'd imagine it would've been relatively simple to get him to come out and see himself if the unit was faulty.
 If I get the chance to drop by A2A before I go overseas to Japan if they have the demo DXe then I'll try it out with the vega and report in. Always gotta help out fellow head fiers


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Not sure how to take that !
> 
> I was wondering if it was possible to get the media files onto his windows based computer by way of the Mac system, as my RAID drive has a thunderbolt connection. So its about if its possible to integrate the 2.


I'm sorry if my response to your post was a bit flippant. It was a very poor attempt at humour, which often gets me in over my head. That was actually a very practical question to ask. I've got a lot of files on my old Windows XP Pro home Dell tower and it would be nice to get them to my MBP.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> Whats your preference with 6SN7 or CV181's do you prefer the Treasures over the Psvanes ?


 
  
 I'm finding a lot to like with both the Psvane T2s and the Shuggie BTs. Also doing some comparison work with the Sophia / TJ 6SN7s.
  
 I'm noticing some residual harshness or 'crunch' with the T2s - not sure if it is something that will go away with more hours or not. Apart from that, and having one blow on me, they are great tubes. Extension and detail are excellent.
  
 I'll probably write up a more detailed review comparing the Sophia+TJ / Psvane T2s / Shuggie BT against each other and a set of Sylvanias (which just about everyone can relate to). A few weeks away from that, as these tubes can take a lot of burn in and I want to give them every chance to settle down.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I'm finding a lot to like with both the Psvane T2s and the Shuggie BTs. Also doing some comparison work with the Sophia / TJ 6SN7s.
> 
> I'm noticing some residual harshness or 'crunch' with the T2s - not sure if it is something that will go away with more hours or not. Apart from that, and having one blow on me, they are great tubes. Extension and detail are excellent.
> 
> I'll probably write up a more detailed review comparing the Sophia+TJ / Psvane T2s / Shuggie BT against each other and a set of Sylvanias (which just about everyone can relate to). A few weeks away from that, as these tubes can take a lot of burn in and I want to give them every chance to settle down.


 

 Great thanks Tony, I look forward to reading that. Apparently the Treasures and the Psvanes do seem to take a long time to break in.


----------



## Stereolab42

Just for fun I'm trying to build some mini tube collections that let me go as retro as possible. For example, I'll soon have sets of 5R4s and 6SN7s/6F8Gs from the middle of WWII, early 40s. (Unfortunately I'll just have to pretend I have NOS WE300Bs from then.)
  
 1. I looked over the list of driver tubes compatible with my other amp, the 6SE, but it appears none of those appeared until the late 50s at the earliest. Bummer.
 2. Even more hardcore, I could go with tubes from the 1930s pre-WW2, but these are crazy tough to find. I know that 5U4Gs and 6F8Gs were made in the late 30s though, from evidence online. Wouldn't it be awesome to kit out a WA5 with 5U4Gs from 1938, 6F8Gs from 1937, and WE300Bs from 1938, the first years those tubes were made?


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> 2. Even more hardcore, I could go with tubes from the 1930s pre-WW2, but these are crazy tough to find. I know that 5U4Gs and 6F8Gs were made in the late 30s though, from evidence online. Wouldn't it be awesome to kit out a WA5 with 5U4Gs from 1938, 6F8Gs from 1937, and WE300Bs from 1938, the first years those tubes were made?


 
  
 My brain exploded just thinking about what a matched pair of 1938 WE300Bs would cost, if you could find them


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Great thanks Tony, I look forward to reading that. Apparently the Treasures and the Psvanes do seem to take a long time to break in.


 
  
 My rule of thumb is 300 hours for anything from Psvane. That might be overkill for some tubes, but for some like the WE replica series it is spot on.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Just for fun I'm trying to build some mini tube collections that let me go as retro as possible. For example, I'll soon have sets of 5R4s and 6SN7s/6F8Gs from the middle of WWII, early 40s. (Unfortunately I'll just have to pretend I have NOS WE300Bs from then.)
> 
> 1. I looked over the list of driver tubes compatible with my other amp, the 6SE, but it appears none of those appeared until the late 50s at the earliest. Bummer.
> 2. Even more hardcore, I could go with tubes from the 1930s pre-WW2, but these are crazy tough to find. I know that 5U4Gs and 6F8Gs were made in the late 30s though, from evidence online. Wouldn't it be awesome to kit out a WA5 with 5U4Gs from 1938, [COLOR=333333]6F8Gs from 1937, and WE300Bs from 1938, the first years those tubes were made?[/COLOR]




Yeah, that would be amazing.

I know what you mean about old tubes. I get goosebumps when I get a real old one that is in perfect condition.

Mine are not as old. Oldest is 1943 RCA Greyglass 6SN7's. My favourite tubes.


----------



## bonesnv

Oldest I have are my VT-99's, which are 1942 production.  Next oldest for me would probably be my RCA/JAN-CRC 6AS7G's, which have a 1947 date I believe it was but would need to look at the tube and the military stamp on the original box. 
  
 Although, I never checked the date codes of my USAF's specifically but I do believe they date back a ways.  One has the original box so will see if there is a date code printed on it.  Also haven't researched the GZ34 Metals or some of the others like the VT-231's I have or the TS/Chatham 6520's, haven't had the time.  I kind of quit paying attention to the dates as much as functionality.
  
 I know the older gray plate WE422A's are from late 40's early 50's production, may only be early 50's would have to look at my PDF document again.  Then the black plates came around with the 4 digit date codes instead of the 3 digit date codes.
  
 On a side note, that gold adapter on the RK60 is 10x more gaudy/hideous in person than any photo.  I got to get a hold of Glenn for something more subtle, feel like Donald Trump took over my amp with that gold bling.


----------



## isquirrel

I have a couple of early 1940 gray glass RCA's, a Ken Rad US Navy staggered pins, Red base RCA 5692, Tung Sol RP BG. Should have some Sylvannia Bad Boys here next week.
  
 I am hoping that the Psvanes or the Syl's come out okay as its getting hard to find good matched pairs, I am trying to find a mate for the TS.
  
 So far the Tung Sol sounds best in my system.
  
 In other news the Woo's will be here today !! Very exciting, will post photos.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> I have a couple of early 1940 gray glass RCA's, a Ken Rad US Navy staggered pins, Red base RCA 5692, Tung Sol RP BG. Should have some Sylvannia Bad Boys here next week.
> 
> I am hoping that the Psvanes or the Syl's come out okay as its getting hard to find good matched pairs, I am trying to find a mate for the TS.
> 
> ...


Complete unboxing pics please. I'm excited about your new Woo amplifiers arriving. That is so cool.


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> Complete unboxing pics please. I'm excited about your new Woo amplifiers arriving. That is so cool.


 

 Now for the freight drama's, all 70 KG is being flown up same day. I am trying to keep my hopes under control in case they don't arrive. Tomorrow's a holiday and we have G20 on so plenty of security. Hopefully that won't hold up the delivery.


----------



## Fririce0003

Looks like from Saturday I'll no longer be a Woo Amp owner.... Dropping the WA5 off as a deposit to upgrade to the 234, oh well the headphones won't be used too much between now and prospective delivery. Too much OT for the next few weeks, then off to Japan for a month, get back and hopefully pick up the 234's 
 Guess till then the GSX will be seeing some headphone time.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Looks like from Saturday I'll no longer be a Woo Amp owner.... Dropping the WA5 off as a deposit to upgrade to the 234, oh well the headphones won't be used too much between now and prospective delivery. Too much OT for the next few weeks, then off to Japan for a month, get back and hopefully pick up the 234's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh well the GSX is hardly slumming it 
  
 I am coming down tomorrow am to pick the Woo's up and fly back with them. I hope Qantas have a sense of humour !


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Oh well the GSX is hardly slumming it
> 
> I am coming down tomorrow am to pick the Woo's up and fly back with them. I hope Qantas have a sense of humour !




Nice, well each crate is within the weight limit... Hopefully this time you won't have to lug it to the plane yourself!
The GS-X is nice, but it's no 234  Well I guess it'll just make it that much better once it finally does arrive. 
Has Jack gotten back to you on replacing that top plate?


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Nice, well each crate is within the weight limit... Hopefully this time you won't have to lug it to the plane yourself!
> The GS-X is nice, but it's no 234
> 
> 
> ...


 

 George has been very kind and is giving me a lift. Jack should be sending the top plate this week. 
  
 I wanted to ask you, I am only going to be running headphones with these so I am thinking i really don't need the any other valves (45 & 2A3) than the 300B's do I?


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> George has been very kind and is giving me a lift. Jack should be sending the top plate this week.
> 
> I wanted to ask you, I am only going to be running headphones with these so I am thinking i really don't need the any other valves (45 & 2A3) than the 300B's do I?




 Yeah George and the guys at A2A are usually pretty helpful. Hope the top plate is easy to replace.
 The 300B's actually have the highest power output out of the 3, with 2A3 being in the middle and the 45's being the lowest output. I'd say all of them would have different general characteristics but from what I've read so far the 300B's should be the most lush with liquid smooth mids and the 45's with the best dynamics and details. But I haven't tried out any 2a3 or 45 tubes. After the amps are in I was planning to get a set of solid plate EML's in each variant to see which I prefer. Gotta save up for that though.


----------



## isquirrel

I feel you're pain, just found out today I need to replace my Shunyata power gear which has US outlets therefore is not AUS approved so can't get insurance. Will be going with the Cardas Clear Beyond and IsoTek gear. Ouch!


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> I feel you're pain, just found out today I need to replace my Shunyata power gear which has US outlets therefore is not AUS approved so can't get insurance. Will be going with the Cardas Clear Beyond and IsoTek gear. Ouch!




That's gotta sting the wallet a bit, didn't think the receptacle would've voided the insurance though. Well at least the Cardas power cables are reasonably priced.
What isotek conditioner are you going to be running? I was thinking of upgrading my power supply gear and was torn between some isotek conditioners, the psaudio regenerators or a purepower battery regen. So far the purepower is looking favourable, power regenerator with battery backup, can have the whole system running in a backup for a couple hours with an additional battery pack.


----------



## isquirrel

Matt, if you're able to make to A2A tomorrow morning we could catch up?
  
 Not sure yet on the power, still have to explore a few options.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Matt, if you're able to make to A2A tomorrow morning we could catch up?
> 
> Not sure yet on the power, still have to explore a few options.




Unfortunately I've got to work from 7:30 till 5 tomorrow going around fixing lifts. What time do you fly out? I was actually thinking if your in the city around the time I finish up work I might be able to lend you a couple tubes to try out with the amp while I wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## kazsud

234 is still a Woo.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Unfortunately I've got to work from 7:30 till 5 tomorrow going around fixing lifts. What time do you fly out? I was actually thinking if your in the city around the time I finish up work I might be able to lend you a couple tubes to try out with the amp while I wait for mine to arrive.




Thank you Matt, that is very very kind of you, I will be stuck with the stock tubes for a week or so until mine arrive. Unfortunately I will be flying out at 3pm, I will call you.

Thanks again,

Simon


----------



## Fririce0003

kazsud said:


> 234 is still a Woo.



Hahaha I should've said temporarily  Going to be a month or two without a woo amp.


----------



## Stereolab42

Wait, will that make THREE people from Australia who are suddenly going to be 234 owners?
  
 <KeanuReavesWhoah.jpg>


----------



## isquirrel

It's all going on down under !

I think it's two, Matt and myself


----------



## isquirrel

At the airport now, the fun with excess baggage begins.....


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> At the airport now, the fun with excess baggage begins.....


 

 I can't wait for the pics to start arriving. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have a mate that keeps telling everyone I have the best headphone rig around. I keep saying not by a long shot. One of your pics might end the debate.


----------



## kokushu

First upgrade of the WA5 is complete.  I when from stock tube to GZ 32 rectify, Sylvania "Bad Boy" driver, and EML 300b mesh power tube.  The sound is noticeable better but all the cool glow is now pretty much gone.  The new tube I added have almost no glow compare to the stock tube.


----------



## Badas

kokushu said:


> First upgrade of the WA5 is complete.  I when from stock tube to GZ 32 rectify, Sylvania "Bad Boy" driver, and EML 300b mesh power tube.  The sound is noticeable better but all the cool glow is now pretty much gone.  The new tube I added have almost no glow compare to the stock tube.


 
  
 Yeah the tubes I'm using in my WA22 have hardly any glow. However the sound is


----------



## Khragon

GZ32 and EML mesh should give plenty of glow I thought.  I am using GZ32 and thought the glow is pretty nice.


----------



## kokushu

The GZ 32 give off a decent one compare to eml mesh and bad boy tube.  Overall the new set look much weaker in glow compare to the stock.  Since the sound is better I will take it but one of the appeal of tube amp for me is the glow.  It make the amp as a whole look much cooler lol.  I think the SE 300b mesh look so much cooler from the WA pics.


----------



## Stereolab42

So I just rented an HE-6 from www.thecableco.com. They've got a great program where they will let you rent a demo of a certain cable or headphone from their library for a small percentage of its cost. You use it for a week and return it, and you can credit the fee to a purchase for a new unit. Pretty awesome, and a lot nicer than abusing the Amazon return policy.
  
 Anyways, it sounds great through the WA5's K1K jack. It is not better than my LCD-XCs though. Wider soundstage due to its open nature, but not as different in that regard as you'd expect. So far I find it a bit drier and less engaging, but maybe a touch more detailed. Certainly different.


----------



## Herueyes

Having some eargasms over here.... Hooked up my WA3 to my Teac UD-501 but at first was doing the 
  
 uno dos tres Oppo HA-1
  

  
  
 which was nice but the TEAC is just killing it... Damn!!!! The secret Methinks is not the power cables or tubes or usb cable
  
 but this little thingy I picked up from the Land Down Under... The Burson AB-160 (never really used it except on my 2 channel setup...)
  
 Figured what the heck Lemme try with my Woo Setups... Damn!!!! Hey ya'll if you come across one of these with the XLR inputs then
  
 grab it for me and lemme know how much... I can just imagine how they sound if the RCA version is this good!!!!
  
 Using HD650's via a Zu Audio Mobius Cable = Madness!!!! (Not even Hi-rez yet!!! just CD Flac rips and some mp3's)
  
  
  
 Peace...


----------



## isquirrel

Okay, just got back from a long day flew down to Melbourne and picked up the 234's from George and the guys at Addicted to Audio, huge thanks to them they even arranged a driver to ferry us around.
  
 Right onto the exciting stuff !!
  
 Photos here, the 234 and their crates weighed 36 KG each, you can just imagine the queue at Melbourne airport on a Friday afternoon and us checking in with 2 huge crates, the check in guy nearly had sense of humour failure.
  
 All was good and they finally let us board, amps are now warming up nicely. Fririce0003 is very kindly lending me his prized valves while he is away.
  
 Gotta love that Head Fi spirit !! Thanks mate.
  
 Okay photos:


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Okay, just got back from a long day flew down to Melbourne and picked up the 234's from George and the guys at Addicted to Audio, huge thanks to them they even arranged a driver to ferry us around.
> 
> Right onto the exciting stuff !!
> 
> ...


Elvis has left the building! Send me the DaVinci when you decide that it doesn't sound quite right. Beautiful stuff. Congrats!


----------



## longbowbbs

isquirrel said:


>


 
 That is an awesome picture! Congrats!


----------



## Khragon

nice!!!! Looking forward to your impression


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


>


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






 Congratulations, enjoy!!!


----------



## Silent One

isquirrel said:


> Okay, just got back from a long day flew down to Melbourne and picked up the 234's from George and the guys at Addicted to Audio, huge thanks to them they even arranged a driver to ferry us around.
> 
> Right onto the exciting stuff !!
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, a lovely presentation!


----------



## isquirrel

Thank you to everyone that's commented.
  
 Well its nice to finally be a member of the Woo owners club. Now I see what everyone has been getting excited about. 
  
 At the moment I only have 2 US power cords so the 234's are running off the Shunyata Talos, with he DAC running off a Cardas clear beyond power cable into the wall. However I am think that maybe I am better off running the Woo's off the wall (albeit a Thor power board) and the DAC out of the power conditioner. 
  
 I am also going to try some 6SN7 tube rolling today, although I don't have much in the way of matched pairs.
  
 Changed from the Hi Plate - Z output to the Cathode Plate - Hi Z which doesn't sound as hot and is more delicate. The amount of power these amps have is ridiculous. 
  
 Plate chart below kindly supplied to me:


----------



## Stereolab42

Nice. I wouldn't have dared check those in, seeing how baggage handlers treat stuff and lose stuff. I would have shipped them through a traditional service, which you could at least get proper insurance for. But good to see it turned out alright.


----------



## isquirrel

Considered that however most of our heavy freight goes via road here and well lets put it this way our Pacific highway is currently being upgraded (over 5 years) because a lot of it is pot holed by huge road trains. Didn't think that was going to be a great ride for the Woo's.
  
 Generally I find that when I take stuff onboard, it so far has lawyers arrived at the other end okay. That and because I just couldn't wait anyome.
  
 It is a long weekend so what else's is a head-fier supposed to do...


----------



## Feedbacker

Anybody got any idea how these stack up against a Mullard?
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tung-Sol-5AR4-GZ34-new-re-issue-serrated-plate-New-Boxed-/131330104946?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item1e93e25e72


----------



## isquirrel

feedbacker said:


> Anybody got any idea how these stack up against a Mullard?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tung-Sol-5AR4-GZ34-new-re-issue-serrated-plate-New-Boxed-/131330104946?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item1e93e25e72


 

 There is a good write up half way down this article that may help you
  
 http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/tjmeshplates_e.html


----------



## Feedbacker

isquirrel said:


> There is a good write up half way down this article that may help you
> 
> http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/tjmeshplates_e.html


 

 Thanks! I'll have a proper look...


----------



## BirdManOfCT

OK, so what makes the tube power supply better for the WA7?
  
 Currently listening to the regular WA7 and enjoying the sound more this evening. Not sure if it's because I'm more relaxed or if it's because the power lines are quieter. Trying not to fall for the placebo, but something's noticeably different.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Okay, just got back from a long day flew down to Melbourne and picked up the 234's from George and the guys at Addicted to Audio, huge thanks to them they even arranged a driver to ferry us around.
> 
> Right onto the exciting stuff !!
> 
> ...




I can safely say I have not ever seen a better headphone rig. This is the best ever. Especially with the lounger and river right next to it. Congrats. 

Please update us with new pics. I for one will never get tiered at looking at them.

Can I ask for your permission to save the pictures and show a friend of mine in the USA? He would be so impressed.


----------



## isquirrel

Thank you and no worries about the photos, I enjoy looking at other Head Fis systems. Nothing better than having a long listening session on a Saturday afternoon.


----------



## Stereolab42

I just ordered a pair of EML 300B meshes. (I emailed KR Audio a few days ago to give them a chance to respond to the accusations from their former dealer in Canada, but got no response, so I just decided to go with my original plan.) These and the SERPs should have me set for the next 5+ years at least.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> I just ordered a pair of EML 300B meshes. (I emailed KR Audio a few days ago to give them a chance to respond to the accusations from their former dealer in Canada, but got no response, so I just decided to go with my original plan.) These and the SERPs should have me set for the next 5+ years at least.




Great stuff, supposed to be great tubes. How many hours do 300B's last for ?


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> Great stuff, supposed to be great tubes. How many hours do 300B's last for ?


 
  
 5000 hours is what I hear.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> 5000 hours is what I hear.




Wow, okay. I didn't realise that. I can't believe it I have come down with the worst flu, my ears are blocked & I can't hear a damn thing. Great timing. So I have been running my Amps 24/7with some pink noise to get some hours on them. Don't seem to be any issues so far and they are running cool to the touch.

Messed around with power yesterday and they sound better through the Shunyata.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Wow, okay. I didn't realise that. I can't believe it I have come down with the worst flu, my ears are blocked & I can't hear a damn thing. Great timing. So I have been running my Amps 24/7with some pink noise to get some hours on them. Don't seem to be any issues so far and they are running cool to the touch.
> 
> Messed around with power yesterday and they sound better through the Shunyata.


Sorry to hear about your sickness Isquirrel. It seems that when one uses public transport these days, especially the airlines, one has to wear a surgical mask Tokyo style and carry a bottle of hand sanitiser. No worries mate, it's just a bug not karma.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

On the WA7, for a new set of EH tubes replacing the stock tubes, how long should I burn them in?
  
 Now that I've gotten used to headphone listening, hard to live without it. LOL


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> Sorry to hear about your sickness Isquirrel. It seems that when one uses public transport these days, especially the airlines, one has to wear a surgical mask Tokyo style and carry a bottle of hand sanitiser. No worries mate, it's just a bug not karma.




Yep, I reckon I pucked it up flying last week. I usually wear earplugs as apparently that's how the bugs get into your system through your sinus from the pressure. Anyway I'll take a gas mask next time...


----------



## isquirrel

birdmanofct said:


> On the WA7, for a new set of EH tubes replacing the stock tubes, how long should I burn them in?
> 
> Now that I've gotten used to headphone listening, hard to live without it. LOL




Ideally I try & put 300 hours or 2 weeks 24/7 on any new piece of equipment. I hear the newer tubes can take quite a long time to burn in.

I use the Purist Audio system enhancer disc to do my burn in ripped to an aiff file & left on a continuous loop.


----------



## isquirrel

a fellow Head-Fier (Firice0003) is very kindly sending me the following tubes to try out, they arrive Tuesday. Welcome any comments as I am new to these except for the 6SN7's
  
 Power tubes:
 Sophia Royal Princess 300B
 KR Audio 300B Balloon

 Rectifier Tubes:
 Psvane WE274B Replica
 Sophia Princess 274B Mesh
 Full Music 274B/+/n
 Genalex Gold Lion GZ34

 Driver Tubes:
 Psvane T seriesII CV181
 Ken Rad VT-231
 Sylvania 1952 6sn7 Bad Boy
 Sylvania non 1952 6sn7
 Sylvania 6sn7 Metal Base
 Sylvania 6sn7GT Chrome Dome
 Sylvania VT-231
 Raytheon VT-231
 RCA VT-231 Grey Glass

 The bad boys are the sylvanias with green labels and 3 holes on the plates, the normal version has 2 holes on the plates.


----------



## isquirrel

Anyone running A+ - heads up there's a new 2.05 update with Dark mode, same SQ as 2.04


----------



## kokushu

Which driver tube for the WA5 will give me the best resolution and soundstage?  I currently running the eml 300bmesh, bad boy, and cv 593.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Wow, okay. I didn't realise that. I can't believe it I have come down with the worst flu, my ears are blocked & I can't hear a damn thing. Great timing. So I have been running my Amps 24/7with some pink noise to get some hours on them. Don't seem to be any issues so far and they are running cool to the touch.
> 
> Messed around with power yesterday and they sound better through the Shunyata.




Oh that is ironic. Sorry that you have the flu.

Maybe you could see it as a blessing. Get the tubes and amp breaking in and when you are cleared up you can do your listening without the new amp sound.


----------



## Stereolab42

kokushu said:


> Which driver tube for the WA5 will give me the best resolution and soundstage?  I currently running the eml 300bmesh, bad boy, and cv 593.


 
  
 Sophia 6SN7, hyper-detailed tubes.


----------



## bpcans

stereolab42 said:


> Sophia 6SN7, hyper-detailed tubes.


+1 The Sophia 6SN7 tubes are very nice, especially after a good burn in.


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> +1 The Sophia 6SN7 tubes are very nice, especially after a good burn in.


 
  
 How do the Tung Sol RP BG stack up to them?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

birdmanofct said:


> On the WA7, for a new set of EH tubes replacing the stock tubes, how long should I burn them in?
> 
> Now that I've gotten used to headphone listening, hard to live without it. LOL


 

 Could be my imagination, but the WA7 seems to be running hotter on the EH tubes.


----------



## kokushu

Do you think it worth it to upgrade from the bad boy to the sophia 6sn7 then?  Do you know what the difference between the bad boy and the sophia?


----------



## Badas

birdmanofct said:


> Could be my imagination, but the WA7 seems to be running hotter on the EH tubes.




It may well do. 

It doesn't matter tho. I change tubes on my WA22 regularly. I have noticed some real hot, others cool. Nothing gets to burn your hands hot. Most important thing is sound.


----------



## Stereolab42

kokushu said:


> Do you think it worth it to upgrade from the bad boy to the sophia 6sn7 then?  Do you know what the difference between the bad boy and the sophia?


 
  
 Best to stop thinking in terms of upgrade and start thinking in terms of "different combinations of tubes to suit your mood/music/variety".


----------



## jaywillin

the wa6se i shipped off, arrived DOA according to the buyer, its on the way back to me, 
 i hope it ain't too bad !


----------



## kokushu

stereolab42 said:


> Best to stop thinking in terms of upgrade and start thinking in terms of "different combinations of tubes to suit your mood/music/variety".


 

 That is what I am thinking but I just couldn't think of the right way to put it.  I am just looking for the perfect tubes combination to match my taste right now.  The three right I have right now I think is consider good by everyone but I want the best combination that bring out the best of the hd 800.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

It's still too early (listening a bit with about 15 hours burn-in), but not sure I'm liking the EH tubes better on the WA7. They seem brighter, but not necessarily clearer. I don't like bright. Will give it some more time.


----------



## bbophead

birdmanofct said:


> It's still too early (listening a bit with about 15 hours burn-in), but not sure I'm liking the EH tubes better on the WA7. They seem brighter, but not necessarily clearer. I don't like bright. Will give it some more time.


 

 In this case, time is your friend.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

birdmanofct said:


> It's still too early (listening a bit with about 15 hours burn-in), but not sure I'm liking the EH tubes better on the WA7. They seem brighter, but not necessarily clearer. I don't like bright. Will give it some more time.


 

 Over 20 hours listened. Ouch. Listened to some songs that I've listened to many times (headphones and high-end system). Just too bright.
  
 Let tubes cool, put in stock ones. Much better.
  
 Who knows. It's hard to align with so many people liking the EH better. Maybe I haven't given them enough time. Maybe I'm reacting to a wider soundstage (possibly preferring a more narrow one because it sounds like "normal" stereo). Maybe I'm more reactive to brightness than I thought. Don't know.
  
 Edit: spelling (apparently short on caffeine).


----------



## sillysally

kokushu said:


> Which driver tube for the WA5 will give me the best resolution and soundstage?  I currently running the eml 300bmesh, bad boy, and cv 593.


 
 I have tried must of the best tubes for my WA5-SE, the best combo by far is as follows. 
 Matched Pair nos WE 300B (date code 1956/26 week), Matched Pair nos TSRP 6SN7GT (August 1942), new Matched Pair EML 5U4G. 
  
 However the WE 300B original and TSRP 6SN7 from the above vintage is very hard to find in a matched set.
  
 ss


----------



## TonyNewman

sillysally said:


> However the WE 300B original and TSRP 6SN7 from the above vintage is very hard to find in a matched set.


 
  
 Word. Close to impossible to find TSRP 6SN7 matched pair under $300. For a matched pair of vintage NOS WE300B, I would expect a price around (or over) $10,000, if you can find them.
  
 I am having a lot of fun with new production 300Bs and rectifiers in my WA5, it is the 6SN7 drivers that I am struggling with a little. The combination of detail + extension + 'musicality/warmth' is hard to find.


----------



## sillysally

tonynewman said:


> Word. Close to impossible to find TSRP 6SN7 matched pair under $300. For a matched pair of vintage NOS WE300B, I would expect a price around (or over) $10,000, if you can find them.
> 
> I am having a lot of fun with new production 300Bs and rectifiers in my WA5, it is the 6SN7 drivers that I am struggling with a little. The combination of detail + extension + 'musicality/warmth' is hard to find.


 
  
 I bought two pairs of the nos CTL TSRP 6SN7GT many years ago. They were made for the US Navy back in 1942.
 Very good soundstage, great Hi, low/base and mid tones. These TSRP's really help the EML 5U4G. with adding a larger soundstage and a nice crisp base. 
  
 I have the nos WE 300B and one set of the nos TSRP's in storage, they maybe have 300 hours on them. The other set of TSRP is still nos.  



 The above picture is the guys I got the WE 300B's from.
 They are the Alabama historical radio club.  
  
 ss


----------



## TonyNewman

sillysally said:


> I bought two pairs of the nos CTL TSRP 6SN7GT many years ago. They were made for the US Navy back in 1942.
> Very good soundstage, great Hi, low/base and mid tones. These TSRP's really help the EML 5U4G. with adding a larger soundstage and a nice crisp base.
> 
> I have the nos WE 300B and one set of the nos TSRP's in storage, they maybe have 300 hours on them. The other set of TSRP is still nos.
> ss


 
  
 Hang onto those for dear life - excellent setup to have spares of these hard to get tubes.
  
 Only thing you are missing are the matched pair of WE422As


----------



## Stereolab42

stereolab42 said:


> So I just rented an HE-6 from www.thecableco.com. They've got a great program where they will let you rent a demo of a certain cable or headphone from their library for a small percentage of its cost. You use it for a week and return it, and you can credit the fee to a purchase for a new unit. Pretty awesome, and a lot nicer than abusing the Amazon return policy.
> 
> Anyways, it sounds great through the WA5's K1K jack. It is not better than my LCD-XCs though. Wider soundstage due to its open nature, but not as different in that regard as you'd expect. So far I find it a bit drier and less engaging, but maybe a touch more detailed. Certainly different.


 
  
 My conclusion after more listening: The LCD-XC is simply head-and-shoulders above the HE-6. The HE-6 has a nasty tendency to compress and nasalize mids to a large degree, even while it's presenting an expansive soundstage and great bass/treble. It is basically no contest.


----------



## rschoi75

Hey everyone, 
 New member/Old lurker here. Just figured I'd introduce myself and post up my WA7d +WA7tp desktop combo. This isn't anywhere close to some of the systems I've seen posted up here, but I hope you guys enjoy all the same. 
  
Now to go back, and attempt to read this thread... I may need a few cups of coffee for this.


----------



## bpcans

rschoi75 said:


> Hey everyone,
> New member/Old lurker here. Just figured I'd introduce myself and post up my WA7d +WA7tp desktop combo. This isn't anywhere close to some of the systems I've seen posted up here, but I hope you guys enjoy all the same.
> 
> Now to go back, and attempt to read this thread... I may need a few cups of coffee for this.
> ...


That's a great looking rig, very clean and modern.


----------



## bbophead

Black on black is nice looking!


----------



## sillysally

tonynewman said:


> Hang onto those for dear life - excellent setup to have spares of these hard to get tubes.
> 
> Only thing you are missing are the matched pair of WE422As


 
  
 If memory serves, I don't think the WE422A's work in a WA5/SE.
  
 ss


----------



## TonyNewman

sillysally said:


> If memory serves, I don't think the WE422A's work in a WA5/SE.
> 
> ss


 
  
 I thought the WE422A was "Western Electric's version of the 5U4G" as per this thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread
  
 If those don't work, then the WE274B


----------



## Stereolab42

sillysally said:


> If memory serves, I don't think the WE422A's work in a WA5/SE.
> 
> ss


 
 They are listed as compatible:
  
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## Fririce0003

Would anyone happen to know where I could find some Takatsuki 300B's? I wouldn't mind picking up a pair, or two, while I'm in Japan next month.


----------



## sillysally

stereolab42 said:


> They are listed as compatible:
> 
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


 
  
 Yes the chart shows 274A with adapter and WE 274A with no adapter.
 If you look at the picture below of a WE274A, at the very least it needs a adapter. 
  
 However if memory servers, its more than just needing a adapter. 
 Its been a long time when I looked into the WE274A, so I can't recall exactly. 
  
 ss


----------



## isquirrel

rschoi75 said:


> Hey everyone,
> New member/Old lurker here. Just figured I'd introduce myself and post up my WA7d +WA7tp desktop combo. This isn't anywhere close to some of the systems I've seen posted up here, but I hope you guys enjoy all the same.
> 
> Now to go back, and attempt to read this thread... I may need a few cups of coffee for this.


 

 Welcome, nice looking rig !


----------



## Stereolab42

.


----------



## Amlalsulami

Guy's 
  
Is Woo Audio WA7d Fireflies Duo good for pairing ( HD800,LCD-2F,HE500)?​


----------



## rschoi75

Thanks everyone. I'm definitely enjoying the fireflies. 

Amlalsulami, 
You will be fine with the WA7. While I don't personally own those particular headphones, many reviews on here do cover those headphones and they all are very positive. I'm running Alpha Dogs (that I just received from another member here), and it's just heavenly. Good luck.


----------



## Amlalsulami

rschoi75 said:


> Thanks everyone. I'm definitely enjoying the fireflies.
> 
> Amlalsulami,
> You will be fine with the WA7. While I don't personally own those particular headphones, many reviews on here do cover those headphones and they all are very positive. I'm running Alpha Dogs (that I just received from another member here), and it's just heavenly. Good luck.


 
 Sound good, So what is mean (WA7tp vacuum tube power supply will) It's cost more about $1598


----------



## Badas

Has anyone come across this before? Sorry if it is in the wrong thread. It is in a Woo amp tho.
  
 I had a noisy tube. The left hand side RCA 6AS7G in the picture.
 I don't know why but I decided to give the base of it a flick with my finger. To my surprise it shut up and stopped being noisy for a while.
 So for one listening session every time it was noisy I would stop and listen to the noise with no music on and give it a flick. In the end it stopped being noisy all together. It hasn't been noisy now for a long time. Sounds great now.
  
 Anyone here know why this would be? Is that a common way to fix a noisy tube? Just give it a tap?


----------



## Stereolab42

RCA 6AS7G, lol. Gave up on those noisy-ass tubes when I had my WA22, just write them off. And no, it's not a good idea to flick hot tubes.


----------



## bbophead

Well, it worked for him.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> RCA 6AS7G, lol. Gave up on those noisy-ass tubes when I had my WA22, just write them off. And no, it's not a good idea to flick hot tubes.


 
  
 Yeah, I don't have any more RCA 6AS7G's coming. I have other brands on the way (Raytheon, Chattam, Tung Sol and Sylvania).
 What power tubes did you use in the WA22? I find 6AS7G's nicer than 6080 versions and even better than my Woo supplied 7236.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> Yeah, I don't have any more RCA 6AS7G's coming. I have other brands on the way (Raytheon, Chattam, Tung Sol and Sylvania).
> What power tubes did you use in the WA22? I find 6AS7G's nicer than 6080 versions and even better than my Woo supplied 7236.


 
  
 The TS 7236 from Woo were the best. Cheap RCA 6080s performed above their price as well.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> The TS 7236 from Woo were the best. Cheap RCA 6080s performed above their price as well.


 

 I don't overly like the TS 7236. It is too solid state sounding. I already have a nice SS amp so I don't see the point.
 I have a few RCA and GE 6080's. They can be noisy as well. 6AS7G's sound lush and more tubey.


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> I don't overly like the TS 7236. It is too solid state sounding. I already have a nice SS amp so I don't see the point.
> I have a few RCA and GE 6080's. They can be noisy as well. 6AS7G's sound lush and more tubey.




I've had good luck with both the TS 5998's and the GEC 6AS7G's. The TS's are noticeably more powerful with stronger, fuller bass and the GEC's seem to me to have a bigger, rounder soundstage. Also, there is some characteristic of the GEC's that makes me more aware of reverb in the recording. Have no idea why.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> I've had good luck with both the TS 5998's and the GEC 6AS7G's. The TS's are noticeably more powerful with stronger, fuller bass and the GEC's seem to me to have a bigger, rounder soundstage. Also, there is some characteristic of the GEC's that makes me more aware of reverb in the recording. Have no idea why.




I would like to have both of those however both are way above my price range. :rolleyes:


----------



## isquirrel

Hmm some interesting developments this week, my partner has decided to use my Hugo and LCD-X and now has them setup at her desk... could be the start of something here.
  
 Next she calmly informs me that she spent $1,200 on face cream 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 face cream, really.......
  
 Then when looking at the price Japan site over my shoulder says you're NOT seriously going to spend all that money on valves are you?
  
 I must be living in some sort of parallel universe, let me see face cream or 300B's


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Hmm some interesting developments this week, my partner has decided to use my Hugo and LCD-X and now has them setup at her desk... could be the start of something here.
> 
> Next she calmly informs me that she spent $1,200 on face cream
> 
> ...


 
  
 Apologies for going way OT...
  
 The only way I can indulge my hobbies (headfi / PC gaming / shooting) is by *not *cohabitating with someone. As soon as a woman gets into your abode the place gets taken over (as does your life and your wallet).
  
 Date, Fornicate, Do not Cohabitate


----------



## isquirrel

No at all Tony,
  
 Agree wholeheartedly


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Hmm some interesting developments this week, my partner has decided to use my Hugo and LCD-X and now has them setup at her desk... could be the start of something here.
> 
> Next she calmly informs me that she spent $1,200 on face cream :blink:  face cream, really.......
> 
> ...


I can draw a couple pieces of positivity from your post sir. First, your partner likes music and quality audio gear, a definite win-win for you. This also means that there will be times when they're not talking, (insert hiss for inappropriate comment). Two, only really good looking people spend $1,200 AUD on face cream. Another win for you. Three, all you have to do is explain how good the new tubes will make your W234 sound and that you'd still like to go out to dinner, not alone, and you'll be living on easy street.


----------



## longbowbbs

isquirrel said:


> Hmm some interesting developments this week, my partner has decided to use my Hugo and LCD-X and now has them setup at her desk... could be the start of something here.
> 
> Next she calmly informs me that she spent $1,200 on face cream
> 
> ...


 
 LOL!!! Perspective is so powerful.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Hmm some interesting developments this week, my partner has decided to use my Hugo and LCD-X and now has them setup at her desk... could be the start of something here.
> 
> Next she calmly informs me that she spent $1,200 on face cream :blink:  face cream, really.......
> 
> ...




Second best post of the month.




bpcans said:


> I can draw a couple pieces of positivity from your post sir. First, your partner likes music and quality audio gear, a definite win-win for you. This also means that there will be times when they're not talking, (insert hiss for inappropriate comment). Two, only really good looking people spend $1,200 AUD on face cream. Another win for you. Three, all you have to do is explain how good the new tubes will make your W234 sound and that you'd still like to go out to dinner, not alone, and you'll be living on easy street.




Post of the month.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Hmm some interesting developments this week, my partner has decided to use my Hugo and LCD-X and now has them setup at her desk... could be the start of something here.
> 
> Next she calmly informs me that she spent $1,200 on face cream :blink:  face cream, really.......
> 
> ...




Hahaha, I think I may have a solution.
Step 1: Keep calm and open a new bank account.
Step 2: Transfer money into said account.
Step 3: Buy tubes, set shipping to work address.
Step 4: Wait for tubes to arrive.
Step 5: Buy wife more face cream.
Step 6: Immediately install Takatsuki tubes in 234.
Step 7: Tell wife to listen and just hope the sound is enough to convince her....
Failing that more bribes may be needed.

If you can't convince her I'm looking at picking up 2 sets of each while I'm in Japan so I can send you up the spares to help tide her over!


----------



## jaywillin

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW, i received the wa6se i had sold back today, it had arrived at the buyer, DOA
 it was just the fuse !! very, very relieved , and i may just keep it now, that was too close


----------



## Badas

jaywillin said:


> WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW, i received the wa6se i had sold back today, it had arrived at the buyer, DOA
> it was just the fuse !! very, very relieved , and i may just keep it now, that was too close




Good news. Keep it. Obviously the buyer is not very hands on. That would have been the first thing I would have checked.
Fuses breaking is very common. I had a brand new SVS sub that was dead from new. It had a nice quality checked note. So I knew it couldn't be much. Put in a new fuse and never looked back.


----------



## jaywillin

badas said:


> Good news. Keep it. Obviously the buyer is not very hands on. That would have been the first thing I would have checked.
> Fuses breaking is very common. I had a brand new SVS sub that was dead from new. It had a nice quality checked note. So I knew it couldn't be much. Put in a new fuse and never looked back.


 
 yeah, i'll probably keep it now, i did have some sellers remorse after selling to, so maybe it was meant to stay here ! 
 and i got the beyer t1's after i's sold the 6se, and they sound awesome together


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> I can draw a couple pieces of positivity from your post sir. First, your partner likes music and quality audio gear, a definite win-win for you. This also means that there will be times when they're not talking, (insert hiss for inappropriate comment). Two, only really good looking people spend $1,200 AUD on face cream. Another win for you. Three, all you have to do is explain how good the new tubes will make your W234 sound and that you'd still like to go out to dinner, not alone, and you'll be living on easy street.


 

 LOL, its get's worse. Get home and find she is now listening to the Woo's and says "gee I really like these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







, do you mind if we swap over for the weekend, you know so I can understand why you love valves so much"....
  
 "I have though about it and I am trying to understand your point of view"... seriously What !!


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Hahaha, I think I may have a solution.
> Step 1: Keep calm and open a new bank account.
> Step 2: Transfer money into said account.
> Step 3: Buy tubes, set shipping to work address.
> ...


 
  
  

 Thanks Matt, should have moved in with you...


----------



## isquirrel

Oh now I have done it was laughing so much she's read what I posted on line - apparently everyone's having a joke at her face cream. Personally I can't wait to try the stuff, must be some serious science in the ingredients.  
  
 Hope I will be able to smile after.....


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Thanks Matt, should have moved in with you...




Well I do have a room spare 
At least if she spends the weekend with the Woo she should have no problems with the tube purchase afterwards!


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Well I do have a room spare
> At least if she spends the weekend with the Woo she should have no problems with the tube purchase afterwards!


 
  
 Thanks mate ! I am afraid the Takatsuki's are NOT negotiable, face cream be dammed, ha


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Thanks mate ! I am afraid the Takatsuki's are NOT negotiable, face cream be dammed, ha




Hahaha, there's still hope! Chritmas is around the corner


----------



## choconutty

How about you all move on from my face cream discussions and let me use the Woo's  .  Maybe Isquirrel needs to sleep on the couch!!!


----------



## isquirrel

Oh no


----------



## Fririce0003

choconutty said:


> How about you all move on from my face cream discussions and let me use the Woo's  .  Maybe Isquirrel needs to sleep on the couch!!!







isquirrel said:


> Oh no :eek:




Looks like the safe haven is gone!

XD


----------



## BirdManOfCT

isquirrel said:


> Oh now I have done it was laughing so much she's read what I posted on line - apparently everyone's having a joke at her face cream. Personally I can't wait to try the stuff, must be some serious science in the ingredients.
> 
> Hope I will be able to smile after.....


 

 LOL!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Would it be a waste to try high-end USB cable between WA7 and HD800? If it's worth a try, any suggestions?


----------



## Badas

choconutty said:


> How about you all move on from my face cream discussions and let me use the Woo's  .  Maybe Isquirrel needs to sleep on the couch!!!




If by couch you mean that lounger right next to the Woo I think he would be happy.


----------



## Badas

birdmanofct said:


> Would it be a waste to try high-end USB cable between WA7 and HD800? If it's worth a try, any suggestions?




It creates a big debate every five minutes. The great cable debate. Lots of opinions.

Personally I think high-end cables are modern day snake oil. I don't believe in cheap. I just think mid-range well built will serve well.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Personally I think high-end cables are modern day snake oil.


 
  
 +1. YMMV.


----------



## Fririce0003

birdmanofct said:


> Would it be a waste to try high-end USB cable between WA7 and HD800? If it's worth a try, any suggestions?




Cables always spark debate, but if you go in without any preconceptions and just demo some it'll be a good way to form your opinion.
Having said that compare the wire world platinum starlight with the light harmonic USB if you have the chance. That comparison gave me my opinion on high end cables.


----------



## ru4music

Well, after 10+ years of being a Woo headphone amp owner (WA-3, WA-2) I'm thinking W234, but I'm also thinking designing my own dedicated 300B amp. So, I'm interested in Woo 234 experiences (pro/ con) vs other designs etc., and looking for real experiences and the what-not.
  
 Thanks in advance!
 Ken
  
 BTW, design wise, the focus would be on the hd-800 headphone (300 - 600 impedance).
  
 It's been a while since I've posted, but I'm sure you'll all understand!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

badas said:


> It creates a big debate every five minutes. The great cable debate. Lots of opinions.
> 
> Personally I think high-end cables are modern day snake oil. I don't believe in cheap. I just think mid-range well built will serve well.


 

 I know, that's why I didn't want to ask. Hoping to get some sane responses before the trolls arrive.  I hear that about mid-range and well-built. Lots of times it's the connectors and connections that are making the difference.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Hot off the press!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/743278/nov-22-dec-1-huge-savings-on-woo-audio-products-check-it-out


----------



## ru4music

It's really not that complicated.  The cable(s) depend on the system and the weakest link (so to speak.)  It's really a match between the losses in the system (e.g. treble/ mid/ bass vs harmonic representation  from subtle timbre nuances etc.)  So, cables either compensate or attenuate a system as a whole and at the same time affect nuances in the music based on music type and harmonics.
  
 So it really depends on a lot of factors!  Welcome to the void and enjoy!


----------



## Fririce0003

hifiguy528 said:


> Hot off the press!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/743278/nov-22-dec-1-huge-savings-on-woo-audio-products-check-it-out




...Right after I've ordered my 234, could've saved a hefty chunk there


----------



## Stereolab42

I'm hoping Woo will offer pre-orders for the WA8 early next year for a nice discount. I'll be all over that.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

fririce0003 said:


> ...Right after I've ordered my 234, could've saved a hefty chunk there


 
  
 If it has't shipped, we'll honor the discount.  
  


stereolab42 said:


> I'm hoping Woo will offer pre-orders for the WA8 early next year for a nice discount. I'll be all over that.


 
  
 Thank you for your continued support.  We'll definitely take care of fellow Head-Fi members when the WA8 is ready.


----------



## Fririce0003

hifiguy528 said:


> If it has't shipped, we'll honor the discount.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your continued support.  We'll definitely take care of fellow Head-Fi members when the WA8 is ready.




Hahaha, all good. I ordered it through A2A in Australia anyways. Just looking forward to getting it


----------



## bpcans

birdmanofct said:


> Would it be a waste to try high-end USB cable between WA7 and HD800? If it's worth a try, any suggestions?


How high-end of a USB cable are you thinking about, and what are you using as a dap/source?


----------



## Feedbacker

Sorry for the newbie question, but will a Mullard 5Z4GT work OK in a WA6SE? I know the 5Z4 is on the Woo compatible list, but what does the 'GT' mean?


----------



## Fririce0003

feedbacker said:


> Sorry for the newbie question, but will a Mullard 5Z4GT work OK in a WA6SE? I know the 5Z4 is on the Woo compatible list, but what does the 'GT' mean?




The GT is just a bulb description I think, G is for glass and T is tubular. Though some say the T is for the size of the bulb, but I've seen both tall and short GT designations.


----------



## Feedbacker

Originally Posted by *Fririce0003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> The GT is just a bulb description I think, G is for glass and T is tubular. Though some say the T is for the size of the bulb, but I've seen both tall and short GT designations.


 
  
 Makes sense  - thanks. I've seen it described as a GZ30, by any other name...


----------



## bpcans

Up early to watch Live Formula 1 qualifying from Abu Dhabi. Just a note to let you guys' know that Sophia Electric is having a Black Friday sale. It's worth a look.


----------



## rschoi75

hifiguy528 said:


> Hot off the press!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/743278/nov-22-dec-1-huge-savings-on-woo-audio-products-check-it-out




Nice. Wish I was in the market for another woo amp. I might have to pick up a stand or two though.


----------



## Stereolab42

bpcans said:


> Up early to watch Live Formula 1 qualifying from Abu Dhabi. Just a note to let you guys' know that Sophia Electric is having a Black Friday sale. It's worth a look.


 
 I don't see anything on their site about this?


----------



## bpcans

stereolab42 said:


> I don't see anything on their site about this?


I didn't see it either on their website. The sale info was contained in an email I got from them yesterday. If you call or email them at sales@sophiaelectric.com I'm sure you'll get through.


----------



## jaywillin

stereolab42 said:


> I don't see anything on their site about this?


 
  
  


bpcans said:


> I didn't see it either on their website. The sale info was contained in an email I got from them yesterday. If you call or email them at sales@sophiaelectric.com I'm sure you'll get through.


 
 i see 10% off and free shipping right on the homepage 
  
  
 ​ NOW THROUGH DEC 1ST, 2014
 ALL WOO AUDIO PRODUCTS 10% OFF + FREE CONUS SHIPPING​ NOW THROUGH DEC 1ST, 2014
 ALL WOO AUDIO PRODUCTS 10% OFF + FREE CONUS SHIPPING​


----------



## MIKELAP

Free Shipping,high currency you guys have all the luck !


----------



## cspirou

So I was reading about the Woo 234 Monoblock and it looks really impressive. However I noticed a bit of an inconstancy. They say that "No semi-conductors are used anywhere in the circuit." but then I saw this picture on the bottom of the page:
  

  
 I don't know about you but on the right of that side of that capacitor, it really looks like a semiconductor. It could be a mistake and the picture is from another amp they have.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

bpcans said:


> How high-end of a USB cable are you thinking about, and what are you using as a dap/source?


 
 Hard to say, isn't it? LOL. Probably in the $300 range, probably not the $600 or $1000 range, although I've heard of some really good ones at that range.
  
 iMac with Audirvana Plus to WA7 to HD800 at the moment, so I guess that would be entry-level on the front-end.


----------



## jaywillin

birdmanofct said:


> Hard to say, isn't it? LOL. Probably in the $300 range, probably not the $600 or $1000 range, although I've heard of some really good ones at that range.
> 
> iMac with Audirvana Plus to WA7 to HD800 at the moment, so I guess that would be entry-level on the front-end.


 
 i had never heard a difference in my audioquest forest and my carbon usb's, i now have a nordost blue heaven , and i heard a definite 
 improvement with it !


----------



## bpcans

birdmanofct said:


> Hard to say, isn't it? LOL. Probably in the $300 range, probably not the $600 or $1000 range, although I've heard of some really good ones at that range.
> 
> iMac with Audirvana Plus to WA7 to HD800 at the moment, so I guess that would be entry-level on the front-end.


Nice setup. I'd say that you don't have to go completely crazy with a high-end USB cable. I'm using an AQ Carbon USB cable from my MBP to my DAC and its a really nice. The AQ Coffee gets great reviews too, but when you go up to the AQ Diamond USB the law of diminishing returns kicks in hard.


----------



## isquirrel

hifiguy528 said:


> Hot off the press!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/743278/nov-22-dec-1-huge-savings-on-woo-audio-products-check-it-out


 

 Hmm just in time.....
  
 Oh well no complaining


----------



## David.M

Props to Woo for the sale.
  
 But my main question is, why does the prices seem kind of marked up?
  
 Why was the WA6 and WA3 both for $600 for a substantial period of time, and then suddenly for the 10% sale, the WA6's mark down price is coming from $699 to $629
  
 Even the WA2, was originally $1050( i believe for a long period of time)
  
 Unless these amps are coming with updates tubes or circuits or something, I'm not really sure what's going on here.


----------



## bpcans

mi178153 said:


> I only have WA5 and WES from woo.


I "only have"... I wish I was so dibilitated.


----------



## Stereolab42

david.m said:


> Props to Woo for the sale.
> 
> But my main question is, why does the prices seem kind of marked up?
> 
> ...


 
  
 They aren't marked up, the prices have been stable for at least six months, judging by what I paid for my amps.


----------



## jaywillin

anyone know where to get an "8 to 4 pin" adapter for the 6se ??


----------



## GalaxyGuy

I was just checking the Woo site and I don't see their CD transport anywhere.  Does anyone know if they discontinued it?


----------



## Fririce0003

galaxyguy said:


> I was just checking the Woo site and I don't see their CD transport anywhere.  Does anyone know if they discontinued it?




Didn't think they discontinued it, picked one up from Addicted to Audio just last month. They were saying how Jack changed the new ones to sony mechanisms and how much of an improvement it was too.


----------



## isquirrel

galaxyguy said:


> I was just checking the Woo site and I don't see their CD transport anywhere.  Does anyone know if they discontinued it?


 
 I heard same, in fact I was told a Woo transport was on its way out to Aus, maybe they are updating their product page.


----------



## isquirrel

Being totally OCD I noticed that one of the volume knobs ws slightly higher than the other so after loosening off the grub screws & a bit of adjustment got it just about right, course that means it will probably get fiddled with again.
  
 On another note, I have been stuck with 3 expensive Cards Clear Beyond power cables terminated with AUS plugs, course the Shunyata has US outlets so they have sat unused for 2 weeks or so. Tried them today with a cheap power board and that wasn't good, sounded bright and harsh so what to do. 
  
 Bought 3 AUS to US plug convertors and voila, course the bit about being an idiot for not thinking of it earlier occurred to me on the way home. Sounds much better now.....
  
 Funny the obsession about things like that.


----------



## Fririce0003

Confirmed, WTP-1 discontinued due to part availability.... Looks like I got mine just in time


----------



## HiFiGuy528

fririce0003 said:


> Confirmed, WTP-1 discontinued due to part availability.... Looks like I got mine just in time


 
  
 yeah, unfortunately.  WTP-1 had a strong following even though music servers are growing rapidly.  We made the decision to reserve our remaining inventory of parts to support units that are already in use today; instead of using those parts to make more units for sale.


----------



## magiccabbage

I haven't been on this thread in a while. I could have a surprise coming my way soon. 
  
 Ill give you a hint...... its got the number 5 in it.


----------



## bpcans

magiccabbage said:


> I haven't been on this thread in a while. I could have a surprise coming my way soon.
> 
> Ill give you a hint...... its got the number 5 in it.


OMG! Let me see, Woo appreciation thread and the number 5. Mmmm, either way it's got to be good because 5 is my lucky number. An early Merry Christmas for sure my friend!


----------



## magiccabbage

bpcans said:


> OMG! Let me see, Woo appreciation thread and the number 5. Mmmm, either way it's got to be good because 5 is my lucky number. An early Merry Christmas for sure my friend!


 
 Yea hopefully.


----------



## Badas

magiccabbage said:


> I haven't been on this thread in a while. I could have a surprise coming my way soon.
> 
> Ill give you a hint...... its got the number 5 in it.


 

 Oh, Congrats. I have only seen the 5 once for real. It is amazing.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi All,
 Can I join the "Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite" as I have currently have four Woo Audio products i.e. 
  
 - WA3
 - WA6SE
 - WA22
 - WEE
  
  
  

  
 My WEE under my Origin Live turntable to RHS of my Chord Cyan Click Integrated Amp.  
 Below WEE and Click is my Chord QBD76 DAC.  WEE connected to my STAX 009's
  

 My WA22, WA 6SE, Chord Chordette Speaker & Headphone System & HD650's.  
  

 My WA6 SE with Chord Chordette Toucan Headphone amp & Scamp amp resting on top
  

  
 My WA22
  
  

  
 My WA3 
  

  
 My WA6 SE with Sophia Princess


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Amazing gear.
  
 On the WA22 I see you have installed the RCA Greyglass drivers (my favorite drivers). Is that the standard rectifier and the GE power tubes?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Amazing gear.
> 
> On the WA22 I see you have installed the RCA Greyglass drivers (my favorite drivers). Is that the standard rectifier and the GE power tubes?


 
 Hi Badas,
 Thank you.   Much appreciated.
  
 Yes they are the stock rectifier and power tubes that came with the amp.    
  
 I also have the following tubes for the WA22 ;
  
 A pair of factory matched 6SN7 SHUGUANG "Treasure Series" CV181=Z (Cost over £200)
 A Pair of RCA smoke glass 6SN7GT VT231
 A Pair of Zalytron 6SN7 GTB
  
 Emission Labs EML 5U4G-Mesh rectifier (Cost over £250)
 Electron Tube 274B rectifier
  
 A pair of Tong-sol 7236
 Two Sovtek 6AS7G
 Pair of GE 6080WC
  
 I am currently using the SHUGANG Treasures, EML 5U4G and Tong-sol 7236's.   Big improvement over the stock tubes !   The HD650's have never sounded better !


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> I haven't been on this thread in a while. I could have a surprise coming my way soon.
> 
> Ill give you a hint...... its got the number 5 in it.




Say what?????


----------



## Badas

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi Badas,
> Thank you.   Much appreciated.
> 
> Yes they are the stock rectifier and power tubes that came with the amp.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I have wide range of tubes for different combinations as well. The Tong-sol 7236 is a amazing tube. I respect it's power and speed. However I didn't find it romantic enough. Have you tried many 6AS7G's other than the Sovtek? I have had a lot of fun with Raytheon, Tong-sol, Sylvania and Chatham versions. Very nice. Using Raytheon at the moment. Avoid RCA they sound good but noisy.


----------



## bpcans

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi All,
> Can I join the "Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite" as I have currently have four Woo Audio products i.e.
> 
> - WA3
> ...


Oustanding compilation of very nice audio gear. I am of course extremely jealous. Now if your a single- handicap too I'm going to slit my wrists.


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi All,
> Can I join the "Woo Audio Amp Owner Unite" as I have currently have four Woo Audio products i.e.
> 
> - WA3
> ...


 
 Lovely stuff!


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

badas said:


> Yeah, I have wide range of tubes for different combinations as well. The Tong-sol 7236 is a amazing tube. I respect it's power and speed. However I didn't find it romantic enough. Have you tried many 6AS7G's other than the Sovtek? I have had a lot of fun with Raytheon, Tong-sol, Sylvania and Chatham versions. Very nice. Using Raytheon at the moment. Avoid RCA they sound good but noisy.


 
  
 Thank you for the tips Badas.  Much appreciated. 
  
 I only acquired the WA22 last weekend.  It was a private sale deal off e-bay.  As most of that weekend was taken up with family members I hadn't seen for some time and acquiring a second hand Keith Monks RCM and working away during the week have only had a few hours with it.   The previous Owner said he liked these upgraded tubes the best and as we have similar music genre tastes I thought I would try these tubes first.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

bpcans said:


> Oustanding compilation of very nice audio gear. I am of course extremely jealous. Now if your a single- handicap too I'm going to slit my wrists.


 
 Thank you bpcans.   Much appreciated.   
  
 My headphone systems you see here are in the UK. 
  
 My Chord Electronics Choral speaker system is in Spain ;
  

  
 Hope you don't slit your wrists or be jealous…its not good for your health !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> Lovely stuff!


 
 Thank you magiccabbage.   Much appreciated. 
  
 So Santa is bringing you a WA5 ????


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesy jonesy said:


> Thank you magiccabbage.   Much appreciated.
> 
> So Santa is bringing you a WA5 ????


 
 Yes all going well. What speakers do you have. Chord stuff is cool - that QBD76 is supposed to be amazing


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> Yes all going well. What speakers do you have. Chord stuff is cool - that QBD76 is supposed to be amazing


 
 Great news.  
  
 I have Focal Electra 1038 Be's which sound amazing with the Choral system.
  
  
 Yes the QBD76 is an amazing DAC.    I like it so much I bought two one for my speaker system in Spain and one for my headphone systems in the UK. 
  
 I also have the Chord Chordette Qute DAC which is also great and synergises very well with the Woo WA3 and WA 6 SE.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

bonesy jonesy said:


> Great news.
> 
> I have Focal Electra 1038 Be's which sound amazing with the Choral system.
> 
> ...


 
 The only experience I have had so far with the QBD76 not sounding very good is with the BHSE which a fellow HeadFi.org member kindly brought round to my UK home.   The BHSE sounded very flat and dull, no power or energy although it did have respectable sound stage.  The QBD76 was connected to the BHSE balanced.  I was using my Stax 009's. 
  
 The Woo WEE powering my Stax 009's and connected to my Chord Cyan Click Integrated amp connected to my QBD76 sounded 100% better than the BHSE.   This is now a big dilema for me as I have ordered in September a BHSE and GS-X Mk2 !


----------



## magiccabbage

got some GEC 6as7g's in the WA2 now and listening to this album¬
  
 Hi RES STEREO 
  

  
 Really hearing what they can do now


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Would really like a few sets of those. Just far too much $$.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The last few I bid on all went for arounf £70, bargain at that price.


----------



## MIKELAP

Not shure i saw this here or on 6sn7 thread but here goes i had read that a certain tube sounded as good as  the 6SN7GT grey glass RCA VT-231 for alot cheaper dont remember witch one if it was another RCA or another brand . Thanks .


----------



## Badas

nic rhodes said:


> The last few I bid on all went for arounf £70, bargain at that price.




Absolutely. I would be using them if I could get at that price.


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> Not shure i saw this here or on 6sn7 thread but here goes i had read that a certain tube sounded as good as  the 6SN7GT grey glass RCA VT-231 for alot cheaper dont remember witch one if it was another RCA or another brand . Thanks .


 
 Found what i was looking for, page 2079 post #31180


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Found what i was looking for, page 2079 post #31180




Yeah my post about the RCA 6SN7GT. Be careful I have changed my opinion. They are not exactly like the Greyglass. Very similar. So much so I couldn't pick it up at first. However they are a tad bid brighter. 

I find them handy tho. If you get dull power tubes they lift the treble up nicely to produce a dynamic sound. 

I would rank like this:

Sylvania 6SN7 = bright
RCA 6SN7 = half way between
RCA 6SN7 Greyglass = Mellow


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here heard both the WA2 and WA5? I will be getting the WA5 soon and have the WA2 - I'm just wondering if I will loose out on bass quantity or extension? 
  
 I did plan on getting a 2A3 amp but have decided on the WA5 instead - I have heard that 300b amps can be slightly lean
  
  
 Also if anyone can say what the amp is like with Audeze cans I;'m all ears. I will be using HD800 for the first few months but will eventually get an Audeze headphone.


----------



## Badas

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here heard both the WA2 and WA5? I will be getting the WA5 soon and have the WA2 - I'm just wondering if I will loose out on bass quantity or extension?
> 
> I did plan on getting a 2A3 amp but have decided on the WA5 instead - I have heard that 300b amps can be slightly lean
> 
> ...




TonyNewman should chime in. He has that exact rig. WA5 with Audeze LCD-3. Altho I listen to his for a extremely short time I did not notice a lack of bass. 

I use the WA22 and Audeze LCD-3 setup on a dark bass heavy tube set and I thought his setup beat mine on a number of levels.

What was truely impressive was the WA5 and his modified HiFiMan HE6. Insane sound.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> TonyNewman should chime in. He has that exact rig. WA5 with Audeze LCD-3. Altho I listen to his for a extremely short time I did not notice a lack of bass.
> 
> I use the WA22 and Audeze LCD-3 setup on a dark bass heavy tube set and I thought his setup beat mine on a number of levels.
> 
> What was truely impressive was the WA5 and his modified HiFiMan HE6. Insane sound.


 
  
 I have an LCD-X. I have tried the LCD-3F, but don't own one (unfortunately - it has a nice sound).
  
 Just my opinion, but I found the LCD-X sounded better from my SS Taurus amp than the WA5. I run both my HE6 and HD800 from the WA5 - the HD800 (unmodded) is good from the WA5 - the HE6 (modded) is stunning. Simply the best HeadFi experience I have ever had. I have heard great things about the modded HD800 from the WA5 - I haven't modded mine yet, but will soon.
  
 There is plenty of bass from the WA5, but tube selection is paramount, and experimenting with tubes can get expensive very fast particularly with the 300Bs.
  
 I am currently running the Psvane WE274B replicas together with SERP 300Bs and some NOS Sylvania 6SN7s - and there is bass thumping aplenty.


----------



## Badas

^

Sorry I quoted the wrong Audeze. :rolleyes:

Yeah that modded HE-6 was a whole different level.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Sorry I quoted the wrong Audeze.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No drama at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The HE6 is sounding even better now. I was having some treble harshness - thought it was the "fuzzor-lite" mod I hacked up, but it was the %^*#$^& driver tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> No drama at all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Have you got pics and info on the HE6 Mod? 
  
 Thanks for all the other tips as well. You tried EML 300b's?


----------



## Stereolab42

I have the WA5 plus LCD-XC, I think it's a great combo. I compared it against an HE-6 for a week and the LCD-XC soundly trounced it, not even a contest.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> I have the WA5 plus LCD-XC, I think it's a great combo. I compared it against an HE-6 for a week and the LCD-XC soundly trounced it, not even a contest.


 
  
 Was it a modded HE6 (fuzzor+grill+pads)? I find the stock HE6 uncomfortable to wear and not that great sounding, even from a WA5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I didn't say the LCD-X sounds bad out of the WA5 - it sounds fine - but to my ears the SS Taurus drives it better. YMMV.


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> Have you got pics and info on the HE6 Mod?
> 
> Thanks for all the other tips as well. You tried EML 300b's?


 
  
 The HE6 thread has a metric buttload of pictures and advice on how to mod the headphone. It's a great thread for any HE6 owner - highly recommend it.
  
 The only slightly 'tricky' mod of the 3 is the fuzzor. I was lazy and did what I call a 'fuzzor-lite' - this is where I only apply the 3.5mm wide felt strips to the central structure of the headphone and ignore the outer area. It works fine and seems to do plenty of treble taming (enough for my tastes anyway). Pic below.
  

  
 This is quick and easy to apply. A 'full fuzzor' is a bit more complicated as the felt is applied to the outer edge as well. The HE6 thread has pics.
  
 I would love to try the EML mesh 300Bs - I keep hearing great things about them. I already have 3 sets of flagship 300Bs (Psvane replicas / SERPs / EATs) so I really struggle to justify the cost of another set - if I ever did the EML mesh would definitely be on the list.


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here heard both the WA2 and WA5? I will be getting the WA5 soon and have the WA2 - I'm just wondering if I will loose out on bass quantity or extension?
> 
> I did plan on getting a 2A3 amp but have decided on the WA5 instead - I have heard that 300b amps can be slightly lean
> 
> ...




Ask Dubstepgirl


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Was it a modded HE6 (fuzzor+grill+pads)? I find the stock HE6 uncomfortable to wear and not that great sounding, even from a WA5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It was a rental HE6 so no modding. The HE6 is getting on in years now and I keep hearing rumors they will come out with another flagship soon, maybe that will not require modding.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> It was a rental HE6 so no modding. The HE6 is getting on in years now and I keep hearing rumors they will come out with another flagship soon, maybe that will not require modding.


 
  
 If they could put the same ultra-thin transducer in a better housing that would be a great start - and maybe improve those awful threaded cable connectors.


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> Ask Dubstepgirl


 
 I did - was looking for another few opinions. Just to get a feel for it. Sure I will know soon enough myself.


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> I haven't been on this thread in a while. I could have a surprise coming my way soon.
> 
> Ill give you a hint...... its got the number 5 in it.


 

 Congrats magiccabbage! Did you get any of the upgrades? Currently the Woos I own are the WA4 (2004), WA4 (2011), WA22, WA6, and I sold my WA2 with Black Gate Caps. I think there's room in my apartment for a WA5 but I'll have to wait to speak to Ultrainferno. He has the best advice ever (for beer and for audio equipment). Oh yes, and for chocolates, too.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Congrats magiccabbage! Did you get any of the upgrades? Currently the Woos I own are the WA4 (2004), WA4 (2011), WA22, WA6, and I sold my WA2 with Black Gate Caps. I think there's room in my apartment for a WA5 but I'll have to wait to speak to Ultrainferno. He has the best advice ever (for beer and for audio equipment). Oh yes, and for chocolates, too.


 
 I didn't get the parts upgrade but I am trying to get some tubes for when it arrives. 
  
 I would love to hear it through your Zu floor standers. Its a pity we live so far apart.


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> I would love to hear it through your Zu floor standers. Its a pity we live so far apart.


 
  
 Just my 2 cents, I found the WA5 OK as a speaker amp, but a dedicated SET speaker amp absolutely kills it.
  
 I was able to A/B compare my Triode 845SE amp with the WA5 driving my Brodmanns (and before that some Monitor Audio BR5s) - in every way the dedicated speaker amp outperformed the WA5. It wasn't just a power thing - the 300B version of the Triode SET amp (which also outputs 8W) also did a much better job than the WA5.
  
 On the reverse, the headphone output on the Triode 845SE doesn't come close to the delivery of the WA5.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi All,
 Can anybody who has experience with the amps named below give me some pointers as have this dilema regarding having the right electrostatic and dynamic set up's for most genres of music ranging from Rock to Classical to Jazz to R&B using mainly HD650's, HD800's and Stax 009's.  I also have Audeze LCD2's V2 non Fazor 
  
 On the dynamic side I currently have my Woo WA3, WA6 SE and WA22.  They all have plusses and minuses for different genres of music and type of tubes being used.   The WA22 to me sounds the best overall out of the three across all genres of music although the WA3 (warm tuby sound) and WA6 SE (more neutral less warmer sound) are also very good depending on types of music I am listening too.   This is with all three having Woo Audio recommended tube upgrades. 
  
 On the electrostatic side  I currently have a WEE for my Stax 009's linked to my Chord Electronics Cyan Click Integrated Amp.  This also has pluses and minuses overall a respectable sound if a bit bright (especially with rock guitar tracks) but very clear, transparant with a tighter bass than the dynamic set-ups. 
  
 I use my Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC for all amps which is on the neutral transparent side with a touch or warmth to it depending on how I use it i.e. through my MacBook on the neutral brighter side and digital sounding with my Chord Blu CD transporter more warmer and analogue sounding.  I use it in balanced mode for the WA22 and when linking to the Cyan Click integrated amp. 
  
 First part of my dilema is;
  
 Should I buy;
 1) A maxxed out WA5 with upgrade tubes using it for both my dynamic headphones and Stax 009's with the WEE and selling my WA3, WA6 SE, WA22 and Chord Cyan Click
  
 2) A maxxed out WES with upgrade tubes keeping the WA22 and selling my WA3, WA6 SE, WEE and Chord Cyan Click
  
 3) A maxxes out GES with upgrade tubes keeping the WA22 and selling my WA3, WA6 SE, WEE and Chord Cyan Click
  
 The second part of my dilema is;
  
 1) I have put a deposit on a HeadAmp GS-X-Mk2 for my dynamic headphones
  
 2) I have put a deposit on a HeadAmp BHSE for my Stax 009's
  
 The reason why the second dilema is a dilema is I have heard a BHSE through my Chord QBD76 DAC a few weeks back with a fellow HeadFi.org member.  With my Stax 009's it sounded quite flat, lifeless, boring and not much power or volume to it although it was very clear and tranparant.  I was very disappointed and wondering how a $6,000 + could sound so bad.  We compared it to the WEE with the Cyan Click and Stax 009's this sounded much better overall with plenty of volume and energy although not as transparant and clear as the BHSE but a lot more enjoyable to listen too.   These findings are documented in the BHSE postings.   The owner of the BHSE loves his amp and says it sounds amazing at his home with a different (and single ended not balanced) DAC. 
  
 All of these choices are serious money.  As I work and live in the UK it is not easy to listen to the set-ups mentioned above so I normally buy and try in the comfort of my homes giving myself time to make a good analysis of what I like which of course is very expensive !.


----------



## kazsud

Buy the GES and WA5 w/ the parts upgrade and buy your tubes elsewhere. Sell your other Woos and don't cancel your GSX or BSHE. 

You lucky s.o.b


----------



## TonyNewman

kazsud said:


> Buy the GES and WA5 w/ the parts upgrade and buy your tubes elsewhere. Sell your other Woos and don't cancel your GSX or BSHE.
> 
> You lucky s.o.b


 
  
 I'd keep with the WA5 and BHSE and GSX and dump the GES.
  
 If you are going all the way to an SR009 you should drive it with the best electrostatic amp out there - and everything that I have read tells me that is the BHSE.
  
 Definitely buy your tubes elsewhere - except for perhaps the SERPs, if you want those. For anything else I would be definitely go elsewhere.
  
 GSX is up with the best available solid state amps. The WA5 is excellent with the right tubes and can drive the HE6 with its 8W K1K socket (something no other tube headphone amp I know of, except for the 845 based the 10K Egoista, can do).


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

kazsud said:


> Buy the GES and WA5 w/ the parts upgrade and buy your tubes elsewhere. Sell your other Woos and don't cancel your GSX or BSHE.
> 
> You lucky s.o.b


 
 Thank you for your reply kazsud.   Much appreciated.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

tonynewman said:


> I'd keep with the WA5 and BHSE and GSX and dump the GES.
> 
> If you are going all the way to an SR009 you should drive it with the best electrostatic amp out there - and everything that I have read tells me that is the BHSE.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you TonyNewman for your informative reply.  Very much appreciated.


----------



## musicman59

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi All,
> Can anybody who has experience with the amps named below give me some pointers as have this dilema regarding having the right electrostatic and dynamic set up's for most genres of music ranging from Rock to Classical to Jazz to R&B using mainly HD650's, HD800's and Stax 009's.  I also have Audeze LCD2's V2 non Fazor
> 
> On the dynamic side I currently have my Woo WA3, WA6 SE and WA22.  They all have plusses and minuses for different genres of music and type of tubes being used.   The WA22 to me sounds the best overall out of the three across all genres of music although the WA3 (warm tuby sound) and WA6 SE (more neutral less warmer sound) are also very good depending on types of music I am listening too.   This is with all three having Woo Audio recommended tube upgrades.
> ...


 
 I personally would go with a maxxed out WA5 for tube amplifier. It will drive everything out there on dynamic and electromagnetic headphones.
 For SS the GS-X is a nice amplifier but with money no object I would go with the McIntosh MHA100 and for the SR-009  I would go with the RSA A-10 Thunderbolt. I have listen to the WES, BHSE and the A-10 and to my taste the A-10 is a better match plus if you have a speaker system it also work great as a pre-amp. 
  
 The A-10 is in my wish list for next year.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

musicman59 said:


> I personally would go with a maxxed out WA5 for tube amplifier. It will drive everything out there on dynamic and electromagnetic headphones.
> For SS the GS-X is a nice amplifier but with money no object I would go with the McIntosh MHA100 and for the SR-009  I would go with the RSA A-10 Thunderbolt. I have listen to the WES, BHSE and the A-10 and to my taste the A-10 is a better match plus if you have a speaker system it also work great as a pre-amp.
> 
> The A-10 is in my wish list for next year.


 
 Thank you musicman59 for your very informative reply.   Very much appreciated. 
  
 The Mc MHA100 is a pre-amp and headphone amp with a built in DAC.    Im happy with my Chord QBD76 DAC both on how it sounds (especially with my Blu CD Transporter) and its looks so I want to stick with it.  
  
 I don't need a pre-amp in the UK as I will only be using headphones.  So the MHA100 won't get fully utilised and for close to £5,000 its a high price to pay just for a SS headphone amp ! 
  
 The RSA-A-10 for me is just too industries and ugly and also has a pre-amp I won't be using.


----------



## TonyNewman

If it was my money I would be going for BHSE+SR009 for electrostatic, and I would give serious thought about dumping the GSX and going for the tube Viva Egoista. It is expensive, but will drive any planar or dynamic headphone in existance - and the 845 tube sound is delightful.
  
 I get very cautious about headfi gear that claims to double up as big rig gear - my experience with the WA5 as a speaker amp was an education for me. It was good, but a dedicated SET speaker amp (300B or 845 based) kills it.


----------



## Angelbelow

Any recommendations for 300bs for the WA5?
  
 Looking for something well balanced but on the bright side. No harshness but nice treble extension and airy presentation.
  
 Got some RCA 5U4Gs and Sylvania 6SN7s already.
   
Pairing with HE500/LCD2s for now, eventually looking at the HE6s and the HD800s.


----------



## Fririce0003

angelbelow said:


> Any recommendations for 300bs for the WA5?
> 
> Looking for something well balanced but on the bright side. No harshness but nice treble extension and airy presentation.
> 
> ...




May be worth asking Isquirrel, I've lent him my tube collection while I'm away and awaiting my new amp. Got some KR300b balloons, royal princess 300b's, Psvane we274b replicas, full music 274b/+/n, sophia mesh 274b and I believe he's trying some mullard metal bases as we speak.
 Also in a month we'll have some takatsuki 300b and 274's. 
 I'd offer my opinion since I used them with my WA5 before the trade in, but it's been a couple weeks since I last heard it and months since I last rolled it. So my memory may be misleading, I like to go back to gear for a quick listen to confirm my original thoughts before posting. 
 I'll be able to help in 4 weeks though


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

tonynewman said:


> If it was my money I would be going for BHSE+SR009 for electrostatic, and I would give serious thought about dumping the GSX and going for the tube Viva Egoista. It is expensive, but will drive any planar or dynamic headphone in existance - and the 845 tube sound is delightful.
> 
> I get very cautious about headfi gear that claims to double up as big rig gear - my experience with the WA5 as a speaker amp was an education for me. It was good, but a dedicated SET speaker amp (300B or 845 based) kills it.


 
 Hi TonyNewman,
 Thank you for your reply.  Much appreciated. 
  
 Yes the Viva Egoista is very expensive and to be honest to me it looks ugly.   Looks play a big part for me as well as the sound…. like cars it's got to look great as well as perform great…same goes for me with HiFi equipment ! 
  
 Yes I agree that a dedicated speaker amp will trounce a headphone amp that has speaker terminals when driving speakers.   But maybe driving the Woo WEE it's not so important !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi All,
 Is there anybody in the UK that has a WA5 or WES or GES that I could try with my WEE (with the WA5) and my Stax 009's and Chord Electronics QBD76 DAC. 
  
 I can come to you or you can come to me.  My UK base is south Birmingham not far from the NEC & Birmingham Airport.


----------



## dmac03

jc, are you selling your spare gec 6as7g's on ebay? I am unloading my wa22 and tubes. When I checked out competitor postings I saw one that has to be you.


----------



## grokit

bonesy jonesy said:


> Yes I agree that a dedicated speaker amp will trounce a headphone amp that has speaker terminals when driving speakers.   But maybe driving the Woo WEE it's not so important !


 
  
 I have driven the 009 with a WEE, and in comparison to the Liquid Lightning the WEE didn't even compete in the same league. So don't waste your time, the WEE drives the 009s adequately but not well. When I made this comparison I was using my (modified) WA22 as the pre for both. If your sources have both balanced and single-ended outputs, you could drive both the single-ended WA5 and the balanced WES for a kickass all-Woo lineup.
  
 The other option I would recommend is using the WA5 as a pre for a solid-state electrostatic amp, because personally I don't like to use a tube pre in front of a tube main amp -- I would rather mix it up. Tube rolling can not only get expensive, but the results can be confusing and even counterproductive when you are trying to mesh two tube-driven components together. For this second configuration I would recommend the liquid lightning very highly, I'm sure the thunderbolt would perform very well in this setup as well but I haven't had the pleasure.
  
 For speakers you could add some Klipschorns if you have the money and need to fill a big space with sound, they are uber-efficient and should match up well with the WA5 speaker taps. Either way a dream system!


----------



## magiccabbage

grokit said:


> For speakers you could add some Klipschorns if you have the money and need to fill a big space with sound, they are uber-efficient and should match up well with the WA5 speaker taps. Either way a dream system!


 
 I would love that for sure


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> I would love that for sure


 
 Oooo reel to reel….Awesome +++A


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

grokit said:


> I have driven the 009 with a WEE, and in comparison to the Liquid Lightning the WEE didn't even compete in the same league. So don't waste your time, the WEE drives the 009s adequately but not well. When I made this comparison I was using my (modified) WA22 as the pre for both. If your sources have both balanced and single-ended outputs, you could drive both the single-ended WA5 and the balanced WES for a kickass all-Woo lineup.
> 
> The other option I would recommend is using the WA5 as a pre for a solid-state electrostatic amp, because personally I don't like to use a tube pre in front of a tube main amp -- I would rather mix it up. Tube rolling can not only get expensive, but the results can be confusing and even counterproductive when you are trying to mesh two tube-driven components together. For this second configuration I would recommend the liquid lightning very highly, I'm sure the thunderbolt would perform very well in this setup as well but I haven't had the pleasure.
> 
> For speakers you could add some Klipschorns if you have the money and need to fill a big space with sound, they are uber-efficient and should match up well with the WA5 speaker taps. Either way a dream system!


 
 Thank you grokit for your post.  Much appreciated. 
  
 Im listening to my WEE now and it sounds very nice across all genres I listen to.  
  
 Yes I can imagine a WA5 and a WES would be a great set-up…best of all worlds that can run any HP very well on the planet !  
  
 My QBD76 DAC has both balanced XLR's and single RCA's that can run simultaneously so I could have both the WA5 and WES running together.  
  
 I have been doing this today running my WEE with my 009's connected to my Cyan Click single input (can also run balanced which is far better than single) and my WA22 balanced with my HD650's at the same time.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> I would love that for sure


 
 For resonable sensitive speakers I would prefer my Focal Electra 1038 Be's  !    They sound awesome for all genres across all frequency ranges


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesy jonesy said:


> For resonable sensitive speakers I would prefer my Focal Electra 1038 Be's  !    They sound awesome for all genres across all frequency ranges


 
 Ohh - I will have to give them a look. What is the sensitivity?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> Ohh - I will have to give them a look. What is the sensitivity?


 
  
  
Tech Specs - Type: 3-way vented floor standing speaker
 - Drivers: Three 7" (18cm) "W" woofers 6 1/2" (16.5cm) "W" midrange 11/4" (27mm) pure Beryllium IAL inverted dome tweeter
 - Frequency response (+/-3dB): 33Hz - 40kHz
 - Low frequency point (-6dB): 26Hz
 - *Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 93dB*
 - Nominal impedance: 4Ω
 - Minimum impedance: 3.3Ω
 - Crossover frequency: 230Hz / 2200Hz
 - Recommended amplifier power: 40 - 400W
 - Dimensions (HxWxD): 49 3/16x11 15/16x15 3/4" (1 250x303x400mm)
 - Net weight: 112.2lb (51kg)


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesy jonesy said:


> Tech Specs
> - *Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 93dB*
> - Nominal impedance: 4Ω


 
 I wonder would they be ok with WA5 - I think the 5 wants to see 8 ohms.


----------



## grokit

magiccabbage said:


> bonesy jonesy said:
> 
> 
> > Tech Specs - *Sensitivity (2.83V/1m): 93dB*
> ...


 
  
 The Klipschorns...

SENSITIVITY: 105dB @ 1watt/1meter
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
  
  


bonesy jonesy said:


> Thank you grokit for your post.  Much appreciated.
> 
> Im listening to my WEE now and it sounds very nice across all genres I listen to.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm glad I could be of help. Like yourself, I built a system that could drive any headphone well and the WEE was the electrostatic component, coming off a speaker amp that was set up to drive HE6/K1K. I started with some Lambdas that I think the WEE got more out of, but the 009 is a very special headphone that just keeps giving back the more you feed it. When I demo'd the Liquid Lightning the difference was so profound that it traumatized me to the point of nearly driving me out of this damn hobby! Now that I'm back I have no pretenses about this; I have more appreciation than ever for what I have, but I also have been to the top of the mountain and the view is spectacular. I'm sure the BHSE is excellent but if I was to go tube for the 009 I would definitely go with the WES, and with a tube front end I would certainly look into the liquid lightning or the thunderbolt. To be honest I am not current on what else might be available in the solid-state electrostatic realm these days, because I still haven't ventured back into that part of my system yet.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The Klipschorns are a bit special  and unique.


----------



## musicman59

angelbelow said:


> Any recommendations for 300bs for the WA5?
> 
> Looking for something well balanced but on the bright side. No harshness but nice treble extension and airy presentation.
> 
> ...


 
 Based on your description IMO the EAT will fit the bill.


----------



## magiccabbage

grokit said:


> The Klipschorns...
> 
> SENSITIVITY: 105dB @ 1watt/1meter
> NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
> ...


 
 Are the Klipschorns more than 10k? 
  
 ​And why did the lightning nearly drive you out of the hobby - because is was so good or not so good? Were you coming from WA5?


----------



## Khragon

Anyone know what the recommend impedance range for wa5 low and high setting?


----------



## magiccabbage

khragon said:


> Anyone know what the recommend impedance range for wa5 low and high setting?


 
 says 8-800 on the site
  
 if that helps


----------



## magiccabbage

I hear people saying that the WA5 outputs 8 watts per channel for speakers but on the Woo site it says 10 watts. Has Jack made changes to amp recently? I'm thinking maybe people with the older version of the WA5 only have 8 watts of speaker power. Or maybe its a typo on the site?


----------



## grokit

magiccabbage said:


> Are the Klipschorns more than 10k?
> 
> ​And why did the lightning nearly drive you out of the hobby - because is was so good or not so good? Were you coming from WA5?


 
  
 I think the retail is 4.5k each these days for the Klipschorns.
  
 The lightning with the 009 fully balanced through my gungnir/gcph and my modded wa22 preamp is the best system I've ever heard, and I have still not fully recovered from it! I feel bed because I wrote a long review of the ll and never finished it, I need to get back to that side of things at some point but I'm really enjoying what I have now -- maybe more than ever.
  
 When I get an extra 6.5k or whatever I may make the switch but there's more to it than that, I may just stay where I am because even though that was an awesome system I would never be able to appreciate my dynamic headphones after that. I'm not sure I want to upset the status quo so much at this point in time. It's more of a personal choice related to downsizing and consumption, I went a little crazy with this hobby for a while and for now I am lowering my footprint and simplifying some things. But never say never!


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> Based on your description IMO the EAT will fit the bill.


 
  
 +1 on the EAT. A very well balanced, airy and detailed sound - perhaps more transparent than bright to my ears. They certainly don't bring much tube warmth to the game. Nearest thing to solid state I have heard in a 300B (and I mean that in a good way).


----------



## isquirrel

Had some problems with a new Tung Sol 6SN7 RP BG yesterday, it went noisy so took it out and swapped it over for an RCA, thing is I forgot to turn the other amp off and pulled the other 6SN7 out !! Immediately turned the amp off and miraculously no damage to either tube or the amp.
  
 Don't recommend hot swapping valves. Raises the heart beat somewhat. maybe its a Woo feature 
  
 Very strange is I could hear a tingling sound form the noisy TS so laid it down for the night and plugged it back in this morning. More miracles ! So far so good it works okay today.
  
 Weird but true.


----------



## Stereolab42

Tube amps really must be designed to be resilient to tubes suddenly not working, or otherwise every time a tube burned out you'd have to replace the amp. And I would think yanking a tube would be the equivalent of a tube burning out (stop passing current). I had a 6SN7 in my WA5 burn-out recently, the glass cracked and suddenly that channel went out completely... but the amp was fine.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Had some problems with a new Tung Sol 6SN7 RP BG yesterday, it went noisy so took it out and swapped it over for an RCA, thing is I forgot to turn the other amp off and pulled the other 6SN7 out !! Immediately turned the amp off and miraculously no damage to either tube or the amp.
> 
> Don't recommend hot swapping valves. Raises the heart beat somewhat. maybe its a Woo feature
> 
> ...


 
 Your lucky - id say you were scared ****less.


----------



## magiccabbage

stereolab42 said:


> Tube amps really must be designed to be resilient to tubes suddenly not working, or otherwise every time a tube burned out you'd have to replace the amp. And I would think yanking a tube would be the equivalent of a tube burning out (stop passing current). I had a 6SN7 in my WA5 burn-out recently, the glass cracked and suddenly that channel went out completely... but the amp was fine.


 
 Hopefully that true - its good news for us tube heads if it is


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Your lucky - id say you were scared ****less.


 

 Yes, something like that ! 
  
 More amazed that the bloody thing didn't blow up and you can just imagine how much more incredulous I was this morning when the defunct TS magically came back to life.
  
 Maybe I need a medium.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Yes, something like that !
> 
> More amazed that the bloody thing didn't blow up and you can just imagine how much more incredulous I was this morning when the defunct TS magically came back to life.
> 
> Maybe I need a medium.


 
 haha. It just started working again? That's tubes for ya I suppose.


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> haha. It just started working again? That's tubes for ya I suppose.


 

 Yep still going strong, I have found another set just in case.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Yep still going strong, I have found another set just in case.


 
 Its WA234 that your using right? Have you heard the WA5 or did you jump straight to the WA234?


----------



## isquirrel

Yep I am running 234's. Only heard the 234, prior to that I had an ALO Studio Six, a friend of mine on these forums has gone from a WA5 to 234's. He has a lot of experience with it WA5. A lot of what he has learned has carried over to the 234'a valve wise.


----------



## isquirrel

Have hit the sweet spot with TS RP 6SN7's, Mullard Metal base GZ34's and SERP's.


----------



## bpcans

Warming up the tubes and making some coffee, I call it the paint peeler, this morning. Isquirrel, I still have a hard time wrapping my head around a 16 hour time difference. How's the learning curve, (sic) tube rolling, going with those W234 power towers?


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> Warming up the tubes and making some coffee, I call it the paint peeler, this morning. Isquirrel, I still have a hard time wrapping my head around a 16 hour time difference. How's the learning curve, (sic) tube rolling, going with those W234 power towers?


 

 Good morning mate, very happy now, been an interesting learning journey. Hit the magic spot with the Tung Sols RP, the Sophia Royal Princess 300B's and the Mullard metal base GZ 34's.
  
 Matt is off to Japan next week and bring back some Takatsukis 300B's and 274B's for us both in early January. Looking forward to that.
  
 Full moon here tonight, can't tear myself away from listening to the Interstellar sound track, its 10.45pm suppose I had better go to bed soon. How's your rig sounding?


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Matt is off to Japan next week and bring back some Takatsukis 300B's and 274B's for us both in early January. Looking forward to that.
> 
> Full moon here tonight, can't tear myself away from listening to the Interstellar sound track, its 10.45pm suppose I had better go to bed soon. How's your rig sounding?


 
 I look forward to your impressions of the Takatsukis


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> I look forward to your impressions of the Takatsukis


 
  
 Everything I have heard about them seems to suggest they will be very good. I was surprised that the rectifiers cost more than the 300B's. We shall find out soon enough.
  
 Put some decent isolation under the DaVinci and the Woo's this week - I was shocked at how much difference it made, the system went from being good to really involving emotionally.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Everything I have heard about them seems to suggest they will be very good. I was surprised that the rectifiers cost more than the 300B's. We shall find out soon enough.
> 
> Put some decent isolation under the DaVinci and the Woo's this week - I was shocked at how much difference it made, the system went from being good to really involving emotionally.


 
 Man that is an amazing looking system! Got to be the nicest looking headfi station. Pity bout the view


----------



## isquirrel

The Mullard's, SERP's and the TS all playing together nicely.


----------



## magiccabbage

That DAC looks like it could kill people with laser beams!


----------



## isquirrel

Thanks, this is how I have my desk setup.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Good morning mate, very happy now, been an interesting learning journey. Hit the magic spot with the Tung Sols RP, the Sophia Royal Princess 300B's and the Mullard metal base GZ 34's.
> 
> Matt is off to Japan next week and bring back some Takatsukis 300B's and 274B's for us both in early January. Looking forward to that.
> 
> Full moon here tonight, can't tear myself away from listening to the Interstellar sound track, its 10.45pm suppose I had better go to bed soon. How's your rig sounding?


Unbelievable, could it be the same full moon I saw last night? Sophia Electric tubes might not be the most revealing or detailed, but I think their strength is in the quality of their construction. The SE's do take awhile to loosen up though. My rig is sounding pretty good this morning. I've been getting more music instead of concentrating on audio gear lately. I really liked "Interstellar", will have to check out the soundtrack.


----------



## bpcans

magiccabbage said:


> Man that is an amazing looking system! Got to be the nicest looking headfi station. Pity bout the view


Yeah, a real shame about your view isquirrel.


----------



## magiccabbage

bpcans said:


> Yeah, a real shame about your view isquirrel.


 
 LOL


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> Unbelievable, could it be the same full moon I saw last night? Sophia Electric tubes might not be the most revealing or detailed, but I think their strength is in the quality of their construction. The SE's do take awhile to loosen up though. My rig is sounding pretty good this morning. I've been getting more music instead of concentrating on audio gear lately. I really liked "Interstellar", will have to check out the soundtrack.


 

 How many hours did you find the SERP's needed to be at their best?
  
 If you liked the movie you will love the OST. Let us know how you like it.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> How many hours did you find the SERP's needed to be at their best?
> 
> If you liked the movie you will love the OST. Let us know how you like it.


I didn't have a clock running on the SERP's, but I'd say about 100hrs minimum.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> Everything I have heard about them seems to suggest they will be very good. I was surprised that the rectifiers cost more than the 300B's. We shall find out soon enough.
> 
> Put some decent isolation under the DaVinci and the Woo's this week - I was shocked at how much difference it made, the system went from being good to really involving emotionally.


 
 Hi isquirrel,
 What are those isolation platforms?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

isquirrel said:


> Everything I have heard about them seems to suggest they will be very good. I was surprised that the rectifiers cost more than the 300B's. We shall find out soon enough.
> 
> Put some decent isolation under the DaVinci and the Woo's this week - I was shocked at how much difference it made, the system went from being good to really involving emotionally.


 
 A+++   Awesome looking system isquirrel.    Would love to hear it as been wondering recently how they sound !     Have you tried the Chord QBD76 DAC with the 234's ?  (notice you have one in footnote listing)


----------



## TonyNewman

WA234 vs WA5?
  
 Wondering if any WooHeads have heard both the WA234 and WA5 with the same (or similar) tubes and can give some thoughts on the level of improvement in the jump from WA5 to WA234?
  
 What's better with the WA234? What does it deliver that the WA5 doesn't?
  
 Inquiring minds would like to know (well, at least one inquiring mind). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 P.S> This is all feeding my fantasy of one day owning such a piece of kit. WA234 / BHSE+SR009 / Viva Egoista ... might as well be the moon.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Everything I have heard about them seems to suggest they will be very good. I was surprised that the rectifiers cost more than the 300B's. We shall find out soon enough.
> 
> Put some decent isolation under the DaVinci and the Woo's this week - I was shocked at how much difference it made, the system went from being good to really involving emotionally.


 
 Is it me or does this whole rig look like something Darth Vader would lie back and listen to? After he has done some ass kicking.
  
 Super cool rig. The best. Thanks for the pics.


----------



## isquirrel

musicman59 said:


> Hi isquirrel,
> What are those isolation platforms?


 

 It is a HRS MX3R,  the feet I had to swap over as the WOO's are so heavy (115 pounds) to a higher load rating, in a flash of uncommon brilliance I had the idea of using the old feet with some HRS couplers under the DaVInci, as they match the DaVinci's weight (60 pounds) as HRS don't make a base small enough to sit under the DaVinci triangular base (& hence would look odd) 
  
 The feet have a rubber trampoline platform inside so they do the job perfectly much to my surprise, not often you get something for free in this game 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The sound improved A LOT, became nice and organic, involving. I was very surprised how much the DAC's SQ improved as a result of isolation.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> WA234 vs WA5?
> 
> Wondering if any WooHeads have heard both the WA234 and WA5 with the same (or similar) tubes and can give some thoughts on the level of improvement in the jump from WA5 to WA234?
> 
> ...


 

 Good morning Tony,
  
 I have asked a friend of mine on here Fririce0003 to post on his observations re the difference between the 234's and the WA5 as I can't comment. I do know that his WA5 was maxed out and I have his extensive tube collection here so I can attest to the fact that he knows what he's on about.
  
 He told me that the 234's were significantly better on stock $40 tubes than his WA5 was maxed out. Having heard mine on stock and you know of my tube rolling journey, the tubes have made an enormous difference to the SQ.  The amps scale very well, every improvement to isolation, power etc lifts their performance substantially. 
  
 The reason I went with them was I grew weary of the upgrading cycle, buying something that I knew I would be selling for a loss didn't make sense, so now all I have to think about is playing with Tubes. Which is what I really enjoy.
  
 I hope that makes sense.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Good morning Tony,
> 
> I have asked a friend of mine on here Fririce0003 to post on his observations re the difference between the 234's and the WA5 as I can't comment. I do know that his WA5 was maxed out and I have his extensive tube collection here so I can attest to the fact that he knows what he's on about.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Makes sense to me - and thank you. This all feeds my fantasies around "gear I will never own"


----------



## isquirrel

I read somewhere that its important to let Tubes settle during the bruin in process, in others words after an extended run time to turn the amps off and let the tubes cool overnight to bring out the best in them. Have you experienced this phenomenon?


----------



## isquirrel

bonesy jonesy said:


> A+++   Awesome looking system isquirrel.    Would love to hear it as been wondering recently how they sound !     Have you tried the Chord QBD76 DAC with the 234's ?  (notice you have one in footnote listing)


 

 You are correct I have a QBD76 HDSD, I played with it for a while with the 234's, I have just sold it as the updated model with Hugo tech in it will no doubt be launched at the CES so wanted to maximise resale value now.
  
 It is a very good DAC, I notice you have one also, are you enjoying it?
  
 Edit - the system has come along very well, been messing around with different combinations of valves, cables and power. Got a way to go yet with some stuff but very happy with the result so far. I have some good Shunyata gear on its way. The DaVinci received a new firmware file sent by Larry Ho himself, that optimised the digital buyers apparently, whatever it was, it stripped away another veil to the music and lifted its performance. Was nice to know LH are still in the business of looking after their customers as they are copping a pasting over on the Geek forums.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I read somewhere that its important to let Tubes settle during the bruin in process, in others words after an extended run time to turn the amps off and let the tubes cool overnight to bring out the best in them. Have you experienced this phenomenon?


 
  
 Absolutely yes. I never run my tubes for more than about 12 hours straight, and they always get a cool down overnight.
  
 I find the biggest changes occur overnight - at least that is how it appears to my ears - I typically get to hear the benefit of the previous day of burn in the next morning (if that makes sense).
  
 Taking the Psvane rectifiers as an example - I would not expect running them straight for 300 hours to have anything close to the same level of burn in improvement as running for 300 hours @ 10 hours per day with rests overnight. That's why a 300 hour burn in takes weeks (or months).


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> You are correct I have a QBD76 HDSD, I played with it for a while with the 234's, I have just sold it as the updated model with Hugo tech in it will no doubt be launched at the CES so wanted to maximise resale value now.


 
  
 Do you think that the pricing of the new Chord DAC will be similar to the QBD76 or more expensive?


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> WA234 vs WA5?
> 
> Wondering if any WooHeads have heard both the WA234 and WA5 with the same (or similar) tubes and can give some thoughts on the level of improvement in the jump from WA5 to WA234?
> 
> ...




Hi Tony, 
 I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
 Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
 If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
 Going in to audition the 234 with my tubes over stock sealed the coffin on the WA5. The WA5 improves a lot with tube upgrades but you still get the characteristics of the amp imposed on the tubes. With the 234 tube rolling can be summed up with a single word 'transparent'. You hear each change the tubes bring to the amp, I spent most of the time listening to the 234 with KR300b balloons, syl bad boys and full music 274b/+/n rectifiers. The amp was on high plate output. Driving the abyss on high plate was an easy task, the volume dial never made it past 10 o'clock and it only made it past 9 on very quiet pieces. Going from the stock tubes on the WA5 to better ones is a big leap, putting that same tube complement in the WA234 takes the tubes to a whole other level. With the Above tubes in the WA5 I really enjoyed the pacing, bass weight and immediacy of the sound. I thought that was the pinnacle. Switching to the 234 it showed what it was compromising, it had all the speed, weight and immediacy that was there in the 5. But it bought just an organic sense of musicality to it, with the 234 you get spade loads of detail over the 5, but that's not what you end up listening to. It's still so musical and involving that you get lost in the music as a whole. Sure you can still go into it and focus on the details but getting lost and enjoying it is soo much easier.
 Another thing that is apparent is how revealing if other components the 234 is, I know the cable debate is a touchy subject, but going between one of the new cables they had to test at A2A, cardas clear light and cardas clear interconnects. The differences became readily apparent, tonality and sibilants being the main points the 234 would reveal between cables. I actually was hoping there wouldn't be a difference between the clear and clear light since they're essentially the same apart from the air tubes in the clear. But it was ever so less sibilant and the tonality was fuller and warmer, easier to get lost in and enjoy.
 Comparing the SR009, BHSE and Abyss, 234 combo. The SR009 does everything right... But only on a technical note, comparatively it's very mechanical and it looses it's sense of involvment and enjoyment. That organic sound just isn't there, you listen to the music as each individual part instead of a cohesive whole. That's just not the type if listening I enjoy, so my views on it may be bias.
 Just to add in purchasing the 234 was not easy financially for me, still being an apprentice, having a mortgage and planning a decent sized trip along with all the other associated costs with the WA234. I had to prioritise my spending to afford it, it wasn't just walk in, drop cash and walk out. Making the decision however was that easy, for me the improvements were worth every cent. I just had to find a way to gather the funds.
 I will note I haven't listened to either the 234 or WA5 in about 2-3 weeks so it's all from mort at this point so I may be romanticising it a bit. But if you have any specific questions I'll do my best to answer them


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Hi Tony,
> I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
> Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
> If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
> ...


 
  
 Wow - thank you so very much for such a detailed response.
  
 Really, really appreciate that - except for the fact that it makes me want the Wa234 even more than I did before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am 100% in agreement with you on the musical vs mechanical debate - I don't care much for how technically brilliant something is - it's all about the sound and how engaging it is.
  
 I'm burning in a set of SERPs in my (stock) WA5 right now - and loving it. Very musical and engaging.


----------



## billerb1

fririce0003 said:


> Hi Tony,
> I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
> Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
> If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
> ...


 
*Fririce0003, cudos on a great write-up.  Much enjoyed.*


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Wow - thank you so very much for such a detailed response.
> 
> Really, really appreciate that - except for the fact that it makes me want the Wa234 even more than I did before :wink_face:
> 
> ...




 I'm just glad I could help, I apologise for tempting your wallet though 
 You'll be very happy with the SERP, very fluid and musical tube.
 Though one thing I've noticed about opting for musical vs mechanical is you spend a lot more time listening without realising how much time has passed... There's been so many times on weekends I'm only alerted to the time by birds chirping to signal morning has arrived, there is no "one more song". I've even had to forgo headphones and I back to speakers during the week because there's been a few too many times I've had to go to work without sleep. Not the best when your working on a lift 50 floors up on live electrical wires and such :S


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Wow - thank you so very much for such a detailed response.
> 
> Really, really appreciate that - except for the fact that it makes me want the Wa234 even more than I did before
> 
> ...


 

 Great I am glad Fririce0003 came in with his experiences. I am finding that I prefer the SERP's over the KR's, I find them a little more detailed but far richer tonally. Thanks for the input on burn in, that makes perfect sense now.
  
 Is what I love about this community, always learning something new from people so willing to share.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Hi Tony,
> I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
> Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
> If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
> ...


 

 Good on you mate ! Thanks for that


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> I'm just glad I could help, I apologise for tempting your wallet though
> You'll be very happy with the SERP, very fluid and musical tube.
> Though one thing I've noticed about opting for musical vs mechanical is you spend a lot more time listening without realising how much time has passed... There's been so many times on weekends I'm only alerted to the time by birds chirping to signal morning has arrived, there is no "one more song". I've even had to forgo headphones and I back to speakers during the week because there's been a few too many times I've had to go to work without sleep. Not the best when your working on a lift 50 floors up on live electrical wires and such :S


 
 Totally get that. Time just loses all meaning sometimes as you get drawn into the music.
  
 I found the Psvane replica WE300Bs have a similar effect also. They do capture something of the mid-range magic of the originals (how much I'm not sure - I have never heard a vintage WE300B). Put on some vocal-centric tracks, particularly female vocals, and the result is pure magic. I can eat that up for hours and hours...


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Totally get that. Time just loses all meaning sometimes as you get drawn into the music.
> 
> I found the Psvane replica WE300Bs have a similar effect also. They do capture something of the mid-range magic of the originals (how much I'm not sure - I have never heard a vintage WE300B). Put on some vocal-centric tracks, particularly female vocals, and the result is pure magic. I can eat that up for hours and hours... :tongue_smile:




The Psvane WE300B sounds like it'd be wonderful then, I listen to a fair bit of female vocal between electronic. Spewing I didn't end up giving them a go, was either going to try them or EML 300BXLS's. Ended up going for the EML, that sale fell through and I never got around to ordering in the Psvane's after that.


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> The Psvane WE300B sounds like it'd be wonderful then, I listen to a fair bit of female vocal between electronic. Spewing I didn't end up giving them a go, was either going to try them or EML 300BXLS's. Ended up going for the EML, that sale fell through and I never got around to ordering in the Psvane's after that.


 
  
 I like them quite a bit. Very noticeable how nice they are with vocal-centric tracks.
  
 They do need the 200+ hour burn in process, similar to the Psvane replica WE274B. Not cheap either - around $850/900 USD. Very nice sounding tube.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I like them quite a bit. Very noticeable how nice they are with vocal-centric tracks.
> 
> They do need the 200+ hour burn in process, similar to the Psvane replica WE274B. Not cheap either - around $850/900 USD. Very nice sounding tube.


 

 Good news because I like the Psvane 274B's how do they compare to the SERP 300B's? do they have a similar tonal quality, what is the bottom end performance like?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Good news because I like the Psvane 274B's how do they compare to the SERP 300B's? do they have a similar tonal quality, what is the bottom end performance like?


 
  
 I only have less than 100 hours on the SERPs, so they aren't fully broken in yet - so please take these comments with a BIG grain of salt - they might change after more hours on the SERPs.
  
 The Psvane WE300Bs have good extension up and down, but the SERPs (and the EATs) have better. The SERPs definitely step the bass up a notch, but then it was quite good with the Psvane WE274B rectifiers anyway.
  
 What the SERPs don't seem to have as much of (at least not yet at less than 100 hours) is that sweet mid range magic that can make vocals, and female vocals in particular, so haunting and wondrous. Artists like Loreena McKennit / Norah Jones / Alison Krauss ... etc can blow you clean away with the Psvane 300Bs. The SERPs haven't managed to reach those same heights yet (but are still very good).
  
 I have a high quality recording of the classic 'Fever' by Peggy Lee - with the Psvane 300Bs the vocals come through on the modded HE6 in way that really hits all the right spots. Lovely, lovely stuff that melts me right into my comfy chair. The SERPs can't quite do that. Typing this makes me want to pull the SERPs out and whack the Psvanes back in for another hit of those vocals. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These are very, very good sounding tubes and I am happy to recommend them - just be aware that the burn in process is a lengthy PITA - similar to the WE274B replicas.
  
 EDIT - forgot to add - tonally not very different to the SERPs, perhaps not quite as warm/dark as the SERPs, but not a huge difference to my ears. To me the SERPs have better extension in the top and bottom ends, while the replicas have a taste of that classic WE300B mid-range magic that tube heads rave about.


----------



## isquirrel

Thanks Tony,
  
 Great detailed feedback, the sound you describe is exactly what I am after.
  
 Seems top 4 300B's are the 
  
 WE
 Takatsuki's
 Psvanes
 SERP's
  
 I am about to roll back in the KR Ballon's to give them another shot, haven't heard them with the Mullards or the Tung Sols yet.
  
 Jack Woo was telling me that he gets the special top 2% of the Psvanes, might give him a call and see what I can organise. I thought that the export ones were all screened?
  
 I feel like I am in burn in Hell ATM, it seems to be never ending 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I read about a device called frybaby https://www.gcaudio.com/cgi-bin/store/showProduct.cgi?id=830 doesn't do valves though.


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> Totally get that. Time just loses all meaning sometimes as you get drawn into the music.
> 
> I found the Psvane replica WE300Bs have a similar effect also. They do capture something of the mid-range magic of the originals (how much I'm not sure - I have never heard a vintage WE300B). Put on some vocal-centric tracks, particularly female vocals, and the result is pure magic. I can eat that up for hours and hours...


 
 In my view, this is all "circuit dependent." I have sat down with original NOS WE300Bs for a few hours and Marvin Gaye's vocals were floating across 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the listening room in my presence. As were Ella's and a delightful handful of others. 
  
 Was listening to a pair of Shindo Laboratory Western Electric 300B Single-end monaural amps.


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> In my view, this is all "circuit dependent." I have sat down with original NOS WE300Bs for a few hours and Marvin Gaye's vocals were floating across
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very true. My WA5 is the only 300B amp I have, so that is the only tool I possess to make comparisons on. But I take your point - it is my ears and my gear - change those and you could get a different result.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Thanks Tony,
> 
> Great detailed feedback, the sound you describe is exactly what I am after.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would try and find room for the EML 300B mesh somewhere in my list of top 300Bs. I have never heard them myself, but I keep hearing excellent things about them. Dying to try them.
  
 Also depends on the application. I have a set of EATs - these are airy, balanced, extended, neutral and hyper detailed tubes. For rock / vocals either the SERPs or Psvanes would do a much better job - but start talking classical or jazz and these things come into their own in a big,big way.


----------



## Stereolab42

I'm finally getting my EML 300B meshes this week. I doubt they will be better than the SERPs, but that's not my expectation... I just want something roughly equal in quality to serve as variety, even if its strengths turn out to be different.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> I'm finally getting my EML 300B meshes this week. I doubt they will be better than the SERPs, but that's not my expectation... I just want something roughly equal in quality to serve as variety, even if its strengths turn out to be different.


 
  
 Please share your thoughts on the EML meshes vs SERPs once you have some hours on them. I would be _*very *_interested in any comparison you might like to make 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I sometimes wonder if I did the right thing with getting both the Psvane replicas and the SERPs - they are much more alike than not. To pick an arbitrary number - something like 90% overlap. The SERPs are more extended, the Psvanes more magical in the mids - apart from that they are _almost _indistinguishable to me (but that might say more about the crappy state of my hearing than the tubes).
  
 The EATs are a very different animal, as mentioned in an earlier post.


----------



## isquirrel

Rolled in the KR 300 Ballon's, wow ! what a difference to the last time I heard them, I am thinking a combination of factors, amp running time, different rectifiers and driver tubes.
  
 The sound out thing is they have a nice lush mid range but a really good soundstage and natural sense of air about them, more detail and better tonal balance than the SERP's. Subjectively I would choose these over the SERP's. Loving the sound of them with he Cowboy Junkies, The Trinity Sessions


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

fririce0003 said:


> Hi Tony,
> I've had experience with both my WA5 (upgrade parts and tubes), WA234 (both with stock and my tubes) as well as a breif listen to a BHSE, SR009 combo.
> Comparing the stock 234 with my maxed 5, the main improvements were mainly just a widening of the soundstage and more precision with imaging. Background noise, which I thought was already low on the 5, was now completely gone. The dynamics were noticeably better, loud passages shook your ears and silent passages had an inky deep blackness to them. The improvement was enough for me to concider the upgrade after only a quick 10 minute listen, if I had to quantify it I'd say about 10%. It may not seem like much but it was as much of a jump as going from stock tubes on the WA5 to a full upgrade complement or going from the GS-X to the WA5.
> If you've heard the WA5, it's tonality and wide enveloping soundstage carry over seamlessly to the 234. With the WA5 I would switch between either the KR300B's or Royal Princess tubes depending on if I wanted more speed or more lushness. With the 234 the KR's retained all their speed but weren't dry in the mids it was as full and lush as the princesses were in the WA5.
> ...


 
 Wow fantastic post Fririce0003.  
  
 Thank you from my side too as I am in a bid dilema and self debate at the moment with either a fully maxed WA5 with a WEE to drive my 009's or to keep my order placement (made September gone) intact for the BHSE and GS-X Mk2 !  I have also been looking at the 234's though the high cost has put me off somewhat.  
  
 From your posting though I think I should be seriously considering them either connected to the WEE to keep my 009's or ditch the 009's and use top end dynamics !    
  
 Have you tried the Senn HD800's with the 234's ?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

isquirrel said:


> You are correct I have a QBD76 HDSD, I played with it for a while with the 234's, I have just sold it as the updated model with Hugo tech in it will no doubt be launched at the CES so wanted to maximise resale value now.
> 
> *It is a very good DAC, I notice you have one also, are you enjoying it?*
> 
> Edit - the system has come along very well, been messing around with different combinations of valves, cables and power. Got a way to go yet with some stuff but very happy with the result so far. I have some good Shunyata gear on its way. The DaVinci received a new firmware file sent by Larry Ho himself, that optimised the digital buyers apparently, whatever it was, it stripped away another veil to the music and lifted its performance. Was nice to know LH are still in the business of looking after their customers as they are copping a pasting over on the Geek forums.


 
 Hi isquirrel,
 Yes I enjoy the QBD76 very much and I love the look of it too (also important to me).   I have two, one with my full Choral system in Spain (see my avatar) linked to my Blu CD Transporter and the other one in the UK with my headphone systems linked to my MacBook Pro running Audivana software.   Linked to the Blu it comes into its own... the huge upsampling from 44kHz redbook to 176kHz makes a huge difference to the sound.  I prefer this to high res HD files as it gets closer to analogue sources !   Also connected to the Blu you can use the older QBD76's (going for great prices at the moment on SH market) i.e. you don't need the HD or HDSD models to get the Blu benefit !


----------



## isquirrel

Collecting 300B's is as bad as a good crack addiction, I can't get enough, need to get a Genie


----------



## isquirrel

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi isquirrel,
> Yes I enjoy the QBD76 very much and I love the look of it too (also important to me).   I have two, one with my full Choral system in Spain (see my avatar) linked to my Blu CD Transporter and the other one in the UK with my headphone systems linked to my MacBook Pro running Audivana software.   Linked to the Blu it comes into its own... the huge upsampling from 44kHz redbook to 176kHz makes a huge difference to the sound.  I prefer this to high res HD files as it gets closer to analogue sources !   Also connected to the Blu you can use the older QBD76's (going for great prices at the moment on SH market) i.e. you don't need the HD or HDSD models to get the Blu benefit !


 
  
 I have seen your system and like it very much, the Chord gear is presented so well. I have heard good things about the Blu. Our dollar is going South so quickly I am beginning to think its linked to the Peso. Don't think I will be buying any more gear for a while.


----------



## Fririce0003

bonesy jonesy said:


> Wow fantastic post Fririce0003.
> 
> Thank you from my side too as I am in a bid dilema and self debate at the moment with either a fully maxed WA5 with a WEE to drive my 009's or to keep my order placement (made September gone) intact for the BHSE and GS-X Mk2 !  I have also been looking at the 234's though the high cost has put me off somewhat.
> 
> ...




Unfortunately I sold the HD800's a couple months after getting the abyss, that and my 234's still being built :S 
 The time I spent with the 234 was at addicted to audio for about 5 or so hours of listening through my tubes and the abyss.
 The SR009/BHSE was at an audio show, but the abyss/234 rig was right next to it so you could go between the two for a direct comparison. 
 Having said that, if I were just after unparalleled detail it'd be the BHSE/009 combo, you'll hear everything in the mix and up the chain... But that's what you'll be listening to, the recording and equipment, not the music. That's how it was for me at least. Not saying that it's a bad combo, it's certainly an endgame head fi rig, but it's very different from the 234. It's like comparing the HD800 and PS1000. I've owned both at the same time and would say neither is better, just different in that they complement each other. Again much like the JH Audio Roxanne and Noble K10.
 It's a tough decision between the WA234 and WA5, if it weren't such a price gap you'd go the 234 no questions asked. Even with stock tubes the improvement is immediately apparent. But at nearly 4 times the price you really should listen to the two first to see if the quantified improvement is worth the financial outlay.
 Regarding the GS-X if you're going to go the dynamic route and go either the 234 or 5 I'd opt out of the purchase or just re sell. The GS-X is very good but with the abyss at least I didn't use the headphone out because the WA5 with upgraded tubes just improved almost every aspect. Luckily the main reason I purchased it was to use as a preamp for my speaker system and to use with the abyss for short sessions where I wouldn't be listening long enough for the tubes to heat up.
 Apart from the sonic improvement, another plus to the 234 is that you can get a pre amp circuit and either a xlr or RCA loop out added. So it can act as a headphone amp, pre amp and speaker amp.
 Lastly I'd say even if you did go the WA5 or 234 it'd be worth keeping the 009's and using the WEE, that way later down the track if funds allow you can always get the BHSE then and have best of musicality (234) and detail (BHSE). The cost of the WEE would likely still be less than the loss on selling the SR009.
 Hope that helped a bit


----------



## DragonOwen

Can I use KT77 tubes in WooAudio WES amp? If I can, then I can make it just by changing the tubes or some tuning had to be done to the amp?
 I already bought quad of KT77 and now I have a doubts and KT77 isn't in the WooAudio list of compatible tubes for WES: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
 I can't find the clear answer at forums too...


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Thoughts on Matrix X-Sabre into WA7 (with HD800)?


----------



## grokit

grokit said:


> The lightning with the 009 fully balanced through my gungnir/gcph and my modded wa22 preamp is the best system I've ever heard, and I have still not fully recovered from it!(...)


 
  
 Just a quick update with an apology, I meant the LL2 not the original LL which I haven't heard -- and reportedly doesn't sound as good. The only other electrostatic amp I've tried is the WEE, and it sounds good. But with the 009 the LL2 was on a whole 'nother level.


----------



## sillysally

I have both.
 WA5-LE maxxed out with WE 300B matched set nos build date 26/1956. Paired with HD-800 and HE-6
 Stax-727 paired with Stax-009
  
 The WA5-LE with the very rare combo of tubes is something very special, the music just flows beautifully. However I have this Amp and tubes in storage, because I want to keep these rare tubes as close to nos. 
 The STAX combo I have along with my Realizer  A8 and speaker measurement done at AIX sound studio, gives me a great 5 CH or 7 CH like sound system for Blu Ray movies.  
 The nice thing with the STAX-727 for movies, is that I get the base impact that I don't think is there with the BHSE.
  
 My point is it depends on what you are going to be using and pairing these amps with. 
  
 ss


----------



## earthpeople

So I ordered a WA2 during the recent promotion, and I got it last Friday. Listened to it that night and Saturday afternoon, it was great. I went out of town for work Saturday night and didn't get home until late last night, so after I got home today I was excited to get some listening time in. To my surprise, it looks like one of the tubes has failed. Less than 7 hours of listening! I've already sent an email to WA about it, hopefully they can help me out. I guess in the meantime I might as well start considering some new tubes -- any suggestions?
  
 By coincidence, one of the sticks of RAM (DDR4!) in my desktop failed right before I went on the trip too. Things are just piling up!
  
  
 [As soon as I finished posting here, I got a reply from Jack. Says they will send me a replacement tomorrow. Literally less than 10 minutes after sending the email to them, and it's already 11pm on that side of the country!]
  

  
 A picture of my main setup while I'm at it.


----------



## DragonOwen

dragonowen said:


> Can I use KT77 tubes in WooAudio WES amp? If I can, then I can make it just by changing the tubes or some tuning had to be done to the amp?
> I already bought quad of KT77 and now I have a doubts and KT77 isn't in the WooAudio list of compatible tubes for WES: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html
> I can't find the clear answer at forums too...


 
  
 Asked russian master (he has repaired and modded my WES some time ago) about using KT77 with WES, he said it's OK to use them, but look after their brightness and heat to be on the safe side... So have about 10 hours of burn-in (two evenings) for now on my Genalex Gold Lion KT77, they working without any troubles so far, IMO sound is already much better than with Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z (KT77 sound more "juicy", more dynamic, have a deeper sounstage, they also have more bass), and in comparison by memory better than with Psvane EL34PH ("musical", but has poor dynamic and kinda a bit less neutral than I like) and even better than Shuguang Treasure KT88-Z (which IMO was the best among the ones I tried before I got Genalex KT77... KT88-Z is sound "big", have great dynamic, but they sound a bit simple on "delicate" music)... Still for now Genalex KT77 is sound a bit "muddy", but the sound become clearer with every hour of burning-in, so expect the "mud" go away entirely after tubes fully burn-in, so for now very happy with my purchase


----------



## MIKELAP

earthpeople said:


> So I ordered a WA2 during the recent promotion, and I got it last Friday. Listened to it that night and Saturday afternoon, it was great. I went out of town for work Saturday night and didn't get home until late last night, so after I got home today I was excited to get some listening time in. To my surprise, it looks like one of the tubes has failed. Less than 7 hours of listening! I've already sent an email to WA about it, hopefully they can help me out. I guess in the meantime I might as well start considering some new tubes -- any suggestions?
> 
> By coincidence, one of the sticks of RAM (DDR4!) in my desktop failed right before I went on the trip too. Things are just piling up!
> 
> ...


 
 Nice setup i have the same setup with the Senns HD800 and Conductor sounds great my best tubes are TS5998 as power tubes Bugle Boys 6DJ8 as drivers and RFT EZ80 as rectifiers


----------



## musicman59

sillysally said:


> I have both.
> WA5-LE maxxed out with WE 300B matched set nos build date 26/1956. Paired with HD-800 and HE-6
> Stax-727 paired with Stax-009
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with you about the SR009/BHSE. I don't know if it was the tubes complement on the BHSE but the 2 times I have listened to that combo at Justin's table it was on the lean side for my taste.


----------



## TonyNewman

tonynewman said:


> I only have less than 100 hours on the SERPs, so they aren't fully broken in yet - so please take these comments with a BIG grain of salt - they might change after more hours on the SERPs.
> 
> The Psvane WE300Bs have good extension up and down, but the SERPs (and the EATs) have better. The SERPs definitely step the bass up a notch, but then it was quite good with the Psvane WE274B rectifiers anyway.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have put another 50+ hours onto the SERPs (for a total in the 100-150 range), and they appear to have stabilised - I can't detect any further changes.
  
 What a great tube. I was initially thinking I might have made a poor investment compared to the Psvane 300B replica. Not anymore - the SERPs have matured into something very special indeed.
  
 Compared to the Psvane WE300B replica the SERPs are:

A touch darker
More extended, particularly in the bass
Slightly more detailed
  
 The Psvane is still more engaging in the vocals, but only just. This has been the biggest change I have noticed during the burn in - the SERP mid range now has that magic that can draw you into the music with the vocals that it was missing before.
  
 Overall, these tubes are very, very similar. Both are superb sounding and I would be happy with either set in my WA5. Put a gun to my head and force me to choose just one set and it would be the SERPs. They do several things better than the replicas, and in the critical area of vocals they come so very close to the engaging musicality of the WE300B replicas that I could easily make the choice.
  
 A much harder question to answer would be "_does the SERP justify the $300 price difference?_" (roughly $1200 vs $900 per pair). Given how close these tubes are in performance - possibly not - but at this level it is all about that last 5%. If we weren't mildly obsessive audiophile nutters we wouldn't own a WA5 in the first place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If your budget can make it to the SERPs I would go for it, if not then the Psvane WE300B replicas are going to give you almost the same level of performance, plus a slightly superior mid range experience. Either are going to make for a happy audiophile.
  
 I would not recommend purchasing one set if you already own the other - these tubes overlap so much that it might not be a good use of your funds.
  
 EDIT - some 300B porn to go with the verbiage:


----------



## BirdManOfCT

earthpeople said:


> So I ordered a WA2 during the recent promotion, and I got it last Friday. Listened to it that night and Saturday afternoon, it was great. I went out of town for work Saturday night and didn't get home until late last night, so after I got home today I was excited to get some listening time in. To my surprise, it looks like one of the tubes has failed. Less than 7 hours of listening! I've already sent an email to WA about it, hopefully they can help me out. I guess in the meantime I might as well start considering some new tubes -- any suggestions?
> 
> By coincidence, one of the sticks of RAM (DDR4!) in my desktop failed right before I went on the trip too. Things are just piling up!
> 
> ...


 

 That's great service!


----------



## kokushu

So I was installing the tung sol 6f8g with a Chinese bought adapter.  When I get it start I get this whirling sound in my left headphone.  It doesn't make that sound when I turn the amp volume on the way down.  But when I start to have music through it no matter how much I turn down it would make that sound.  Any of idea of what is the cause?


----------



## Angelbelow

tonynewman said:


> I have put another 50+ hours onto the SERPs (for a total in the 100-150 range), and they appear to have stabilised - I can't detect any further changes.
> 
> What a great tube. I was initially thinking I might have made a poor investment compared to the Psvane 300B replica. Not anymore - the SERPs have matured into something very special indeed.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome review. Definitely helpful as I haven't decided on a 300b upgrade just yet. Going to give the stock tubes a good run before upgrading the 300bs. I already have a few, albeit, cheaper tube upgrades for the rectifier (RCA) and the driver (Sylvanias) so looking forward to trying them out as well.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

earthpeople said:


> So I ordered a WA2 during the recent promotion, and I got it last Friday. Listened to it that night and Saturday afternoon, it was great. I went out of town for work Saturday night and didn't get home until late last night, so after I got home today I was excited to get some listening time in. To my surprise, it looks like one of the tubes has failed. Less than 7 hours of listening! I've already sent an email to WA about it, hopefully they can help me out. I guess in the meantime I might as well start considering some new tubes -- any suggestions?
> 
> By coincidence, one of the sticks of RAM (DDR4!) in my desktop failed right before I went on the trip too. Things are just piling up!
> 
> ...


 
  
  A replacement "matched pair" is on its way to you.  Please feel free to reach out anytime if you have additional questions or concerns.  We're here to help.


----------



## musicman59

kokushu said:


> So I was installing the tung sol 6f8g with a Chinese bought adapter.  When I get it start I get this whirling sound in my left headphone.  It doesn't make that sound when I turn the amp volume on the way down.  But when I start to have music through it no matter how much I turn down it would make that sound.  Any of idea of what is the cause?


 
 I had a noise problem with a pair of adapters that were using a non-shield wire to the cap. After the wires were replaced with better ones the noise went away. Sometimes those wires can capture noise from the tubes or transformers so they need to be shielded well. I found out about the with the wires because trying to troubleshoot the issue I covered them with aluminum foil and the noise went away so after that the cables were replaces with thinker and shielded ones.


----------



## Stereolab42

kokushu said:


> So I was installing the tung sol 6f8g with a Chinese bought adapter.  When I get it start I get this whirling sound in my left headphone.  It doesn't make that sound when I turn the amp volume on the way down.  But when I start to have music through it no matter how much I turn down it would make that sound.  Any of idea of what is the cause?


 
  
 Did you get the adapters I recommended on the 6SN7 thread? You need all-plastic adapters, the ones with a metal base gather interference. These work:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-adaptor-6F8G-to-6SN7-Socket-NEW-/171555247064
  
 I'm sure Glenn makes these also, and would have gone to him next.


----------



## musicman59

stereolab42 said:


> Did you get the adapters I recommended on the 6SN7 thread? You need all-plastic adapters, the ones with a metal base gather interference. These work:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-adaptor-6F8G-to-6SN7-Socket-NEW-/171555247064
> 
> I'm sure Glenn makes these also, and would have gone to him next.


 
 +1  on Gelnn adapters. They are great.


----------



## Badas

hifiguy528 said:


> A replacement "matched pair" is on its way to you.  Please feel free to reach out anytime if you have additional questions or concerns.  We're here to help.




Nice to know. Great support. 

Listening to my WA22 right now. What a dream sound. 

Mullard GZ32, RCA 6AS7G's and RCA 6SN7GT Greyglass. 

I use the WA22 everyday and I don't think this amp could have been designed any better.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

musicman59 said:


> +1  on Gelnn adapters. They are great.


 

 Off topic, I like your Memorex poster avatar. I always liked Maxell better, but that poster was great!


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

hifiguy528 said:


> A replacement "matched pair" is on its way to you.  Please feel free to reach out anytime if you have additional questions or concerns.  We're here to help.


 
 A1 ++    Awesome service from a great and caring company.  Nice one Woo Audio.


----------



## MIKELAP

birdmanofct said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > +1  on Gelnn adapters. They are great.
> ...


 
 i had the speakers in that add JBL L100


----------



## TonyNewman

angelbelow said:


> Awesome review. Definitely helpful as I haven't decided on a 300b upgrade just yet. Going to give the stock tubes a good run before upgrading the 300bs. I already have a few, albeit, cheaper tube upgrades for the rectifier (RCA) and the driver (Sylvanias) so looking forward to trying them out as well.


 
  
 There is something that I didn't mention in my comparison of the SERPs vs Psvane replicas, as it is a total non-issue for me, but I have read comments/reviews from other folks who have found it to be a problem. Tonal balance / tonal emphasis in the SERPs.
  
 The replicas have a tonal emphasis exactly where you would expect a WE300B replica to have one - smack in the vocal range. This is part of what makes them slightly better for vocal centric tracks IMHO - the other part is the extra level of velvety smoothness they give to the vocals (female vocals in particular).
  
 The SERPs seem to have a tonal emphasis slightly above the vocal range - somewhere in the high upper mids / lower treble (8-10kHz?). This is probably not ideal, but I find it a non-issue because:

I rarely notice it unless I go for searching for it, and
It does not interfere with my enjoyment of the music.
  
 These are very subtle effects to my ears, and I really hesitate to mention it at all, as it might give the impression of being a serious flaw in the SERPs. I don't think it is.
  
 If I am listening critically for the purpose of comparing / reviewing tubes, then I will notice the SERPs having a tonal emphasis that is a little off to my ears, but if I am listening for enjoyment of the music, then I rarely notice it (if at all).
  
 If you think that the above issue might be a problem for you, then I would recommend the Psvane WE300B replicas instead (or try the EML 300B mesh ... etc). The SERPs do so many things right that it might be a mistake to pass on them for this reason, but everyone's tastes and preferences are different. YMMV.


----------



## Audioclyde

I really like my SERPs in my Manley preamp, but I'm a female vocal/midrange freak, so your description of the Psvane Replicas still has me very tempted ; on the other hand I may just save up for a pair of Takatsuki's!

Thanks again for your impressions; I've found very little info from users of the Replicas. 

Best,

Randy


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi All,
 FYI;
 Compared my WEE & 009's electrostatic set up (connected to my Chord Cyan Click Integrated amp - 110W version balanced connected to my QBD76 DAC which was connected to my Mac Book Pro running 44kHz ripped CD files via Audivana) again Friday gone with a HeadFi.org members BHSE & Esoteric CD Player.  
  
 The BHSE set up had a better sound i.e. warmer not so bright sound, better sound stage and slightly deeper clearer bass but not by a huge margin.  
  
 Compared to the cost outlay of my WEE set up (second hand items total cost less than £3k approx. $5k) a lot less than compared to the BHSE set up (over $15k) the sound quality difference wasn't a huge margin to warrant the extra outlay.   And also my system had quite cheap interconnects and power supply leads compared to the power conditioner and high end cables which run into a few $1000's !  
  
 So the WEE can hold it's head high when connected to good pre-amps and amps. If you already have a good speaker hifi system then for the cost of the WEE its a bargain !    And when it's connected to a hi-end hifi speaker system it should be even better.   
  
 When Im back home in Spain for Xmas and New Year vacation I will be connecting my WEE and 009's to my full Chord Choral speaker system.  And im sure the sound will be even better and up there with expensive electrostatic amps !  
  
 I would like to try the GES and WES though and the WA5 and WA234 linked to the WEE !  
  
 At the moment Im enjoying my WA22 & upgraded tubes with my dynamic headphones and my WEE with my 009's !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi All,
> FYI;
> Compared my WEE & 009's electrostatic set up (connected to my Chord Cyan Click Integrated amp - 110W version balanced connected to my QBD76 DAC which was connected to my Mac Book Pro running 44kHz ripped CD files via Audivana) again Friday gone with a HeadFi.org members BHSE & Esoteric CD Player.
> 
> ...


 
 Ooo forgot to mention;
  
 When you factor in the very long lead times for the BHSE and the possibility it won't be built anymore and parts can't be replaced compared to a WOO product with great communication, very acceptable build times for a hand built product it's a no brainer buying WOO products on these merits !


----------



## TonyNewman

audioclyde said:


> I really like my SERPs in my Manley preamp, but I'm a female vocal/midrange freak, so your description of the Psvane Replicas still has me very tempted ; on the other hand I may just save up for a pair of Takatsuki's!
> 
> Thanks again for your impressions; I've found very little info from users of the Replicas.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Takatsuki's - * drool * 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For female vocals the Psvane replicas do it better than anything else I have heard - but please keep in mind that is only 3 sets of 300Bs (SERPs/Replicas/EATs) - so my baseline is limited.
  
 I hear nothing but wonderful things about the Takatsuki's (except for the pricing). If your budget goes that far I would be very, very tempted


----------



## kokushu

stereolab42 said:


> Did you get the adapters I recommended on the 6SN7 thread? You need all-plastic adapters, the ones with a metal base gather interference. These work:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-adaptor-6F8G-to-6SN7-Socket-NEW-/171555247064
> 
> I'm sure Glenn makes these also, and would have gone to him next.


 

 Yes i did buy that adaptor.  The funny thing is that I thought about rotating the tube and it might work.  It didn't and it just switch channel with the problem.  I then read somewhere that if a NOS tube hadn't been use for a while it might have some noise for the first 10-20 hours.  Although it didn't get rid of all the noise it still much quieter.  I am getting the same amount of noise as other 6sn7 just not the whirling sound like before.  The sound I get with all 6sn7 is a slight hum at high volume but no sound playing.  Anyway I am at the point where I could live with it but the wire for the 6f8g does make noises when it close to the 300b tube.  So I guess there is a break in period for really old tube.  Next time I will keep it running for a while before start to complain.  The only thing that still bother me is why it only happen to one tube and not the other.


----------



## kokushu

Anyone try the elrog 300b tube.  I been hearing its pretty nice was wondering what people here opinion on that tube is and how it compare to other high end 300b.


----------



## MIKELAP

Anybody have infos on U54 tubes not much out there .Thanks


----------



## TonyNewman

Am I nuts? I have a line on an Australian supplier for Elrog tubes and have reserved a pair of 845s and 300Bs. The 845s are in stock now, the 300Bs hopefully before the end of the year. Sometime in January I will be jumping on a plane to Sydney to pick up and return to NZ with the Elrog goodness (at these prices it is worth a visit to pickup rather than deal with the customs BS).
  
 I don't have a firm price for the total yet. "A lot" would be an accurate term.
  
 Once I have these babies burned in I will post some comparisons ER300B vs SERP vs Psvane WE300B vs EAT.
  
 For those into 845s (there is now a headphone amp that uses 845s - the Viva Egoista - so I feel OK about talking about 845s) I will post some thoughts on the ER845 vs Psvane WE845 (a very fine sounding tube indeed).
  
 I think I might have crossed the line from 'hobby' to 'crazed obsession' with the Elrogs.
  
 After this the next leap is to the Takatsuki 274Bs. Where does the madness end? Bankruptcy? A rubber room?


----------



## Badas

^

Yip. Nutz.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Yip. Nutz.


 
  
 It's a good thing I didn't show you the body parts in my freezer then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have Norah Jones playing on my 845 big rig right now. It doesn't have quite the same emotional grip as the WA5 + HE6 with the SERPs or Psvane WE300B replicas - but it is very, very close. The 845 tube produces audio magic. I could float away on those vocals...


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Am I nuts? I have a line on an Australian supplier for Elrog tubes and have reserved a pair of 845s and 300Bs. The 845s are in stock now, the 300Bs hopefully before the end of the year. Sometime in January I will be jumping on a plane to Sydney to pick up and return to NZ with the Elrog goodness (at these prices it is worth a visit to pickup rather than deal with the customs BS).
> 
> I don't have a firm price for the total yet. "A lot" would be an accurate term.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Tony,
  
 Welcome to the funny farm!
  
 That sounds interesting, haven't heard of Elrog before but looked them up, you could be onto a very nice tube there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was thinking if you're coming over to Aus and you have time you are welcome to come and have a listen to the Takatsukis which will be here by then or depending on how I go with them I could send a pair of the 274B's over to you. I am having a love affair with the Mullard Metal Bases ATM.
  
 I also have ordered the EML 5UR4 Mesh Plates & 300B's on order so a shoot out would be great.
  
 I have gone back and forth with the SERP's and the KR300B's - both have their strengths, hard to choose a winner.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> Welcome to the funny farm!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't send anything like that through the post - risk of NZ customs getting their sticky fingers on it isn't worth it (but thanks for thinking of it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please post your impressions of the Takatsuki 274Bs once you are ready (here or in the rectifier thread) - lots of folks will be very interested to hear about them - especially me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any comparisons you can make would help a lot with any purchasing decision. At $1000 USD per tube they are not a small investment - they need to offer a LOT more than the Psvane WE274B replicas ($220 USD per tube) to make it a reasonable buy.
  
 I really like the SERPs and Psvane WE300B replicas. Very similar sounding tubes though.
  
 I have put the EAT 300Bs in for a few weeks of burn in. These are very different tubes right out of the box. Neutral, detailed, balanced, great extension at both ends. Perhaps slightly recessed mids, but that just might be an artifact from listening to the Psvanes and SERPs which have more prominent mids. Perhaps not a great tube for vocals, but for classical or instrumental/jazz listening I think they might be ideal. I'll post more about them in a few weeks when I put another 100+ hours on them.
  
 The Elrogs have a great reputation for spectacular sonics - warmth + detail + extension. Equal or better than the best vintage NOS. I hope so. The initial production tubes has some reliability issues, but I am assured these have been solved.
  
 Next step on the road to insanity is the WA234. I am resisting that for now...


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I wouldn't send anything like that through the post - risk of NZ customs getting their sticky fingers on it isn't worth it (but thanks for thinking of it).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Will do, thinking it might be best to leave the Elrog's for a while and see what you think of yours. The wallet has taken a beating in the last few months.
  
 I have a full Shunyata power setup arriving on Friday, Triton and the Typhon. 
  
 Matt and I will do a shoutout on rectifiers and the 300B's when he gets back from Japan with the Takatsukis in early Jan. Which will be useful as you will have both of our impressions to compare. We have different tastes in music which makes it interesting.
  
 He's bringing up his Abyss in an effort to sway me from the dark side.
  
 I continue to be deeply impressed with the 234's they keep getting better and better, my favourite setup so far is with TS RP 6SN7, SERP's or KR 300B's and either the Psvane 274B or the Mullard metal base GZ34's. The Mullard's are more musical, the Psvanes have a little more bass and a little more air, main thing I notice is they seem to have a more relaxed presentation. I have some one of kind German Ceramic mica 6SN7's on their way, I have no idea what to expect but the construction is unlike anything I have ever seen in a 6SN7.
  
 The price on the 234's has increased here quite dramatically with our drop in the US exchange rate. How much are they in NZ?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ...
> The price on the 234's has increased here quite dramatically with our drop in the US exchange rate. How much are they in NZ?


 
  
 Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much for me to seriously consider it. I am very happy with my WA5/HE6/HD800 setup, so will do some more playing with tubes and leave the WA234 alone for now. Maybe in a year or two, depending on the job/mortgage situation.
  
 The Elrog 845 got me interested in their tubes to start with. I was looking for a tube that goes beyond the Psvane WE845 (which is excellent), and found the ER845. Then I found out that Elrog have released a 300B - just had to give them a try too


----------



## kokushu

So you guy saying the elrog 300b might be good and I should give it a try.  My current eml 300b mesh is slowly breaking in and I will write something when I listen to it more.  Right now the eml is running with tung sol 6f8g and mullard gz32.


----------



## isquirrel

kokushu said:


> So you guy saying the elrog 300b might be good and I should give it a try.  My current eml 300b mesh is slowly breaking in and I will write something when I listen to it more.  Right now the eml is running with tung sol 6f8g and mullard gz32.


 

 Interested to hear your comments on the EML Mesh plates, mine arrive late this week I hope.


----------



## Angelbelow

How long would you guys recommend I spend with the stock tubes before trying out some of the newer tubes I bought (rca rectifer tubes and sylvanias 6sn7s.


----------



## TonyNewman

angelbelow said:


> How long would you guys recommend I spend with the stock tubes before trying out some of the newer tubes I bought (rca rectifer tubes and sylvanias 6sn7s.


 

  About a nanosecond 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Both Woo amps I own have came with nastyassed stock tubes (WA6+WA5) - rather unpleasant. Apart from using them for amp burn in, I don't see much point in not jumping right into new tubes (budget permitting). Just about anything you get is going to be better than the stock tubes.
  
 Any new tubes will need burn in, so that can double as burn in time for the amp as well - so personally I can't see much reason in keeping the stock tubes any longer than it takes to find alternatives. Your ears will thank you.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> About a nanosecond
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am new to tubes (acquired a new WA3) and was wondering the same thing (and already came to a similar answer on my own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 My question is: would it be a good idea to start with the recommended upgrade tubes from Woo Audio, or am I better off heading to eBay and finding tubes on the WA3 compatibility list?


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> I am new to tubes (acquired a new WA3) and was wondering the same thing (and already came to a similar answer on my own
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ah - apologies - I should have read your post more closely.
  
 I avoid the tubes from the Woo website. There are better value tube deals out there I think. YMMV.


----------



## Stereolab42

Had the EML 300B Meshes for about a week now. They certainly are in the same realm of performance as the SERPs, glad I bought them. They bring a slightly darker and richer sound, which is a great piece of variety to have in my toolbox. Unfortunately they don't glow, but neither do the SERPs... can't have everything I guess.
  
 I also bought a single EML 5U4G for my WA6-SE... man, is that thing a beast, just huge. I may pick up a sibling and use them for the WA5, and get a smaller EML 274b for the WA6-SE.


----------



## kazsud

tonynewman said:


> Ah - apologies - I should have read your post more closely.
> 
> I avoid the tubes from the Woo website. There are better value tube deals out there I think. YMMV.




+1


----------



## joseph69

Definitely!


----------



## magiccabbage

When I lift the power supply in the WA5 I can hear and feel something moving inside - Is that normal?


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> When I lift the power supply in the WA5 I can hear and feel something moving inside - Is that normal?


 
 Never noticed that with mine. Does it sound OK?


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Never noticed that with mine. Does it sound OK?


 
 I wont know till tomorrow when the other half arrives. I heard it when i lifted the amp to the table, I had to tilt the amp to the left when lifting and thats when I noticed the movement. 
  
 Can you tilt yours and check if anything happens?


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> I wont know till tomorrow when the other half arrives. I heard it when i lifted the amp to the table, I had to tilt the amp to the left when lifting and thats when I noticed the movement.
> 
> Can you tilt yours and check if anything happens?


 
 I can check tonight. At work right now.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> I can check tonight. At work right now.


 
 thanks


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> thanks




So one of the twins came and the other is a day or so apart. Painful labor.


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> So one of the twins came and the other is a day or so apart. Painful labor.


 
 Yea, I hope the amp is ok - the movement in the power supply worries me
  
 I am afraid to turn it on tomorrow


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> About a nanosecond
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Tony,
  
 Spoke to Bryan from AN, I have ordered some Elrogs, apparently they should be in Aus next Tuesday, he mentioned he had a very keen NZ headphone amp buyer waiting as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Apparently they have fixed the manufacturing issues in the 1st batch.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> Spoke to Bryan from AN, I have ordered some Elrogs, apparently they should be in Aus next Tuesday, he mentioned he had a very keen NZ headphone amp buyer waiting as well
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds good to me. Word I got from Bryan is that they have ER845s in stock and the ER300Bs are coming soon.


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> Yea, I hope the amp is ok - the movement in the power supply worries me
> 
> I am afraid to turn it on tomorrow


 
  
 Tilted the power supply section and gave it a gentle shake (not too sharp as it is powered on at the moment burning in the EATs). Nothing rattled or rolled.
  
 If you are really concerned you can easily remove the faceplate and check yourself - if you are still concerned you can contact Jack Wu and see what he has to say.
  
 I removed the faceplate and baseplate of my power section after a CV-181 blew on me to check for damage. It was easy - just take all the care you should (and disconnect the power, obviously).


----------



## Angelbelow

Quick question, think one of the upgraded 6SN7 tubes are defective. Sound with the stock tubes works in both channels on my HE500s. But when I put in the upgraded tubes I purchased from Ebay the right channel went silent. Ran a few different tests to determine the source of the error. Tried a different amp with the HE500s and it was back to normal. Then I swapped the 2 6sn7 tubes and this time the opposite channel had no sound. Do I need to burn them in a little longer or is this completely abnormal?
  
 The silent channel happened on both the K1K and 1/4 headphone output.


----------



## TonyNewman

angelbelow said:


> Quick question, think one of the upgraded 6SN7 tubes are defective. Sound with the stock tubes works in both channels on my HE500s. But when I put in the upgraded tubes I purchased from Ebay the right channel went silent. Ran a few different tests to determine the source of the error. Tried a different amp with the HE500s and it was back to normal. Then I swapped the 2 6sn7 tubes and this time the opposite channel had no sound. Do I need to burn them in a little longer or is this completely abnormal?
> 
> The silent channel happened on both the K1K and 1/4 headphone output.


 
  
 Sounds like a dead tube. I have never had a totally dead tube come back to life via burn in.


----------



## joseph69

angelbelow said:


> Quick question, think one of the upgraded 6SN7 tubes are defective. Sound with the stock tubes works in both channels on my HE500s. But when I put in the upgraded tubes I purchased from Ebay the right channel went silent. Ran a few different tests to determine the source of the error. Tried a different amp with the HE500s and it was back to normal. Then I swapped the 2 6sn7 tubes and this time the opposite channel had no sound. Do I need to burn them in a little longer or is this completely abnormal?
> 
> The silent channel happened on both the K1K and 1/4 headphone output.


 
 The tube is no good.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Tilted the power supply section and gave it a gentle shake (not too sharp as it is powered on at the moment burning in the EATs). Nothing rattled or rolled.
> 
> If you are really concerned you can easily remove the faceplate and check yourself - if you are still concerned you can contact Jack Wu and see what he has to say.
> 
> I removed the faceplate and baseplate of my power section after a CV-181 blew on me to check for damage. It was easy - just take all the care you should (and disconnect the power, obviously).


 
 Thanks I will check now and send Jack a picture before I plug the amp in


----------



## Angelbelow

Thanks for the input. That is too bad.
  
 Quote:


tonynewman said:


> Sounds like a dead tube. I have never had a totally dead tube come back to life via burn in.


 
  
  


joseph69 said:


> The tube is no good.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

How well do long plugs (e.g., Blue Jeans LC-1) work on the WA7? Does their weight bend the jacks?


----------



## fhuang

magiccabbage said:


> When I lift the power supply in the WA5 I can hear and feel something moving inside - Is that normal?





A lose screw? Mine don't have any sound


----------



## magiccabbage

fhuang said:


> A lose screw? Mine don't have any sound


 
 It was yea - Is sorted now, I think


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi guys. I got my WA5 today - plugged it in and nothing out of the right channel. Tried all my headphones same thing. 
  
 Any suggestions? 
  
 Might try my WA2 and see. I did have it on early (WA2) and it was fine. 
  
 I'm thinking maybe its the DAC or a cable
  
  
  
  
 Paddy
  
  
 PS - I just noticed that the LED on the power supply blinks at start-up. ........ worried now.


----------



## magiccabbage

Ok turned up the volume a bit more and I can hear a horrible spluttery noise through the right channel. 
  
 Thinking now that maybe its a faulty tube.


----------



## magiccabbage

Got it - working now. It must of been a tube on warm up. Was worried there. Thanks for all the help guys!!


----------



## Badas

^

I was wondering if it was a tube. Was thinking about it. Then you got it going.

Glad you fixed it.


----------



## magiccabbage

badas said:


> ^
> 
> I was wondering if it was a tube. Was thinking about it. Then you got it going.
> 
> Glad you fixed it.


 
 Its actually the input switch - wasn't switched to the high impedance slot correctly. Its a tiny bit loose, ill ask jack if its easy to tighten
  
 By the way - I don't find the stock tubes harsh or lean in any way so far. It kicks the absolute ***** out of my WA2 maxed.


----------



## Fririce0003

magiccabbage said:


> Its actually the input switch - wasn't switched to the high impedance slot correctly. Its a tiny bit loose, ill ask jack if its easy to tighten
> 
> By the way - I don't find the stock tubes harsh or lean in any way so far. It kicks the absolute ***** out of my WA2 maxed.




Glad you found the problem and it wasn't anything major. If you think the sounds good now, just wait till you get tube rolling, the WA5 is very responsive to it  
Enjoy!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

WA7 received the Positive Feedback "Writers' Choice" award 2014.  A shout out to @mikemercer for he great review. and for choosing our WA7 Fireflies.
  
 http://positive-feedback.com/Issue76/awards2014.htm
  
*Michael Mercer*
  
 This year has been a little overwhelming, in terms of the sheer amount of decent gear that's been offered. The personal audio space in-particular, has seen even more innovation that's resulted in some amazing products that don't cost an arm and a leg. This year I'm giving my PF Writers' Choice Awards to products that I've been using a lot lately—but haven't had a chance to review yet. Each product earning the award will be getting the full review treatment here at PF ASAP. I just got off the phone with Dr. David William Robinson: Letting him know about my choices and why. I loved his response—and I can't quote him precisely, but he basically said: "I've done the same Michael". "Hey, if I'm using a component often and I haven't had a chance to write about yet, I have to give it it's due". "I'm not going to wait a year to do that." Here here! All three of these products have been wow'ing me lately, and I've experienced many sunrise listening sessions (all-nighters) with each of them. Now, any product that's part of a system that keeps me so glued to the music that I can't go to sleep—well, I think that deserves an award, don't you? 
  
*Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies tube headphone amp/DAC $999 (w/ stock tubes and solid-state power supply)*
  
 Admittedly, I'm a little late to the WA7 Fireflies party. The personal audio community has been showering this tube headphone amp/DAC with accolades continuously since its release in 2012. Even my own website, Audio360.org, gave the WA7 a glowing review (and it was the world's first six-way writer review). I wasn't a part of that review unfortunately, for the simple reason that I already had too many headphone amp/DACs to review at the time! Well, I'm regretting not being a part of that review now, because the WA7 is actually my personal favorite Woo Audio headphone amp (with their up-coming WA8 portable prototype closely behind). That statement isn't meant to take away from any of Jack Wu's wonderful amps. This is simply a matter of taste, and for me, the WA7 Fireflies is both sonically addictive and downright fun to listen to. It also plays very well with all sorts of headphones. That's an important characteristic in a headphone amp/DAC for me. I don't want to invest in a headphone amp and be tightly limited when it comes to my choice of cans! As I like all sorts of headphones: Planar-magnetic, dynamic-driver, on-ear, over-ear, as long as I can get lost in the music I don't discriminate when it comes to cans, and the Woo WA7 Fireflies doesn't seem to either. There are pairings I haven't loved—but everything can't be perfect!
  

  
*The WA7 runs via a pair of 6C45 tubes. It comes stock with a pair of Sovteks. *
  
 Now, as my friend and partner Warren Chi said first (in the Audio360 review)—echoing his belief here: I think if you're going to pull the trigger on the WA7 just get upgraded tubes out-of-the-gate. They offer a matched pair of Electro Harmonix 6C45s with gold-plated pins for a hundred bucks. Consider that a part of the price of the amp/DAC. The musical changes/enhancements that I've been hearing with the upgrade tubes far exceed the price. Everything gets a notch in gain and clarity. It's like the old cleaning-the-windshield analogy. This is the unfortunately perfect example of where that awful cliché fits! The components is also built like a tank, but aesthetically it could live comfortable at the Guggenheim Museum in New York City. The glass block hugging the tubes, especially when lit, is probably my favorite-looking headphone amp. Its fit and finish are also spectacular. The tube sockets have slightly raised outer-ridges to insure a proper fit with the glass block for example. The greatest aspect of the WA&, when I think about it, is that fortunately it sounds as sweet as it looks. 
  
 It's a straight-up tube amp, with a 32-bit USB DAC as well. The Wa7 can act as a headphone amp/DAC combo, headphone amp, or USB-bus powered DAC (no AC required). While the DAC is 32-bit, I think it's the weakest link in the WA7. I'm being relative here—so I'm not stating the on-board DAC is crap, merely that you can greatly enhance the WA7s performance with a better DAC. But, as an all-in-one, at this price, if you're in the market for this kinda product just do it. You'll have nice upgrade paths too, which is nice, as you can personalize the system. Woo Audio offers a tube power-supply for the WA7 that transforms the unit into something else entirely (to be covered soon). And, for example, just putting iFi Audio's Micro iDSD DAC in front of the WA7 produced one of the most pleasurable listening sessions I had all year! So, you have a killer component to start with, and you can move forward with it as a base as well. I love all the little things...
  

  
I own a couple of very high-priced reference-level headphone amplifiers, solid-state and vacuum tube—and the WA7 can hang with them sometimes, musically. I was listening to "Baro", the introductory track to Recondite's new _Iffy_ album (reviewed HERE at PF) and the track begins with these hovering synths, sitting in the lower and midrange frequencies, while these seeming sparks and other sounds move about the soundstage with such transient snap it's delightful ear-candy. Once the kick-drum drops, I get hooked if the systems up to the task. The WA7, along with my trusty Audeze LCD-XCs (closed-backs) mesmerized me with its reproduction of the entire Recondite album. I've listened to that album on that combo so many times now it's ridiculous. The WA7 is also capable of capturing subtlety and nuance. I loved listening to Damien Rice's "9 Crimes" off _9_. It's a heart-wrenching piano and strings-driven ballad with Rice and Lisa Hannigan backing him up. Their voices do this morose dance through a wonderfully sparse sound-space, except for the piano, strings, and minmal instrumentation. It's dark, without being intentionally so. Again, a systems gotta be revealing to reproduce this song in a way that moves me, as I've seen him live. The WA7 pulled it off with ease, and I've heard how much better it is with the tube power-supply! More coverage on this beauty, sonically and physically, ASAP. Most highly-recommended.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Very cool!


----------



## Badas

^

Yes. Excellent. Well done.


----------



## magiccabbage

Ill take proper pics later on


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> Ill take proper pics later on


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






>


 
  


 We want art house pics Paddy!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 they will be coming - dont worry. My friend has a green room with really good lighting, I will take the amp up there during next week and take the best pics that I can.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 Can't wait. What a beauty!


----------



## bbophead

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 

 Congratulations!  You're having a great journey.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> Ill take proper pics later on


 
 +A Looks amazing in silver


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> Its actually the input switch - wasn't switched to the high impedance slot correctly. Its a tiny bit loose, ill ask jack if its easy to tighten
> 
> By the way - I don't find the stock tubes harsh or lean in any way so far. *It kicks the absolute ***** out of my WA2 maxed. *


 
 Hi magiccabbage,
  
 Congratulations on purchasing your WA5 especially just before Christmas ++
  
 I currently own the WA3, WA6 SE and WA22 running fully balanced.   Im wondering though how good the WA5 is compared to the these three amps using the a high end headphone i.e. a HD800 !
  
 How is the WA5 better than the WA2 ?  
  
 Have you heard the WA22 running fully balanced ?     If so is the WA5 better than the WA22 even though the WA5 is single input and output ?   
  
 What headphones are you using with the WA5 ?


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi magiccabbage,
> 
> Congratulations on purchasing your WA5 especially just before Christmas ++
> 
> ...


 
 I have the WA2. I use HD800 and T1 + I will be getting a LCD2 early next year. 
  
 The WA5 (stock) is better than the WA2 (maxed) in every way so far. I honestly did not expect this because people had told me that the WA5 with stock tubes can be lean and have harsh treble. WA5 has a lot more detail but the biggest difference for me is the presentation which is something that is hard to describe. Its like the WA5 presents each sound with more vibrancy and vigor - most of the time that same sound can be visualized when using the WA2 but on the WA5 its just a lot more highlighted. You say to yourself - I knew that sound was there before but I never heard it displayed so vividly. Timbre is another huge one when compared to the WA2 for instruments and especially voices. The track from Graceland - "Homeless" ..... I nearly had a heart attack when I heard it on the WA5 yesterday.
  
 I haven't heard the WA22. DG has heard them all and had most of them together at the same time I think. She could chime in here.
 I had heard that the WA22's bass can be lean but god knows how it actually sounds - Nearly every time I had preconceived ideas about a piece of gear it turned out I was wrong when I actually got to hear them. So I cant say that you will hear the same things. It turned out great for me because the amp sounds way better with stock tubes that I thought it would. 
  
 Paddy
  
 PS - Amps and Headphones get reputations on this site for sounding a certain way, which I suppose is inevitable but I think that they deserve to be listened to with open ears. Listening to other people opinions on here can be very helpful at times but half the time you can be lead down the wrong path - I don't want to do that to anyone so I think you should just be careful how much you listen to others.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> I have the WA2. I use HD800 and T1 + I will be getting a LCD2 early next year.
> 
> The WA5 (stock) is better than the WA2 (maxed) in every way so far. I honestly did not expect this because people had told me that the WA5 with stock tubes can be lean and have harsh treble. WA5 has a lot more detail but the biggest difference for me is the presentation which is something that is hard to describe. Its like the WA5 presents each sound with more vibrancy and vigor - most of the time that same sound can be visualized when using the WA2 but on the WA5 its just a lot more highlighted. You say to yourself - I knew that sound was there before but I never heard it displayed so vividly. Timbre is another huge one when compared to the WA2 for instruments and especially voices. The track from Graceland - "Homeless" ..... I nearly had a heart attack when I heard it on the WA5 yesterday.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you magiccabbage for your great reply.  Much appreciated.
  
 DG very kindly sent me emails regarding the different Woo amps she has and has had.    DG rates the WA5 as the best of all other Woo amps guessing with the exception of the 234 which we didn't discuss but from posts by other members is even better than the WA5 although incredibly more expensive !   
  
 Would be great for me to hear the WA5 also with the Wee !  
  
 Maybe in the New Year I can take the short flight across the North Sea to visit you with my Wee and Stax 009's, WA22 and Chord QBD76 DAC for an all out comparison


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

bonesy jonesy said:


> Thank you magiccabbage for your great reply.  Much appreciated.
> 
> DG very kindly sent me emails regarding the different Woo amps she has and has had.    DG rates the WA5 as the best of all other Woo amps guessing with the exception of the 234 which we didn't discuss but from posts by other members is even better than the WA5 although incredibly more expensive !
> 
> ...


 
 p.s.  My favourite whiskies are Irish Whisky's i.e. Jameson, Bushmills and Redbreast !


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi magiccabbage,
> 
> Congratulations on purchasing your WA5 especially just before Christmas ++
> 
> ...




wa5 (with decent tubes) beats fully balanced and maxed out wa22 pretty easily...


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesy jonesy said:


> Thank you magiccabbage for your great reply.  Much appreciated.
> 
> DG very kindly sent me emails regarding the different Woo amps she has and has had.    DG rates the WA5 as the best of all other Woo amps guessing with the exception of the 234 which we didn't discuss but from posts by other members is even better than the WA5 although incredibly more expensive !
> 
> ...


 
  


bonesy jonesy said:


> p.s.  My favourite whiskies are Irish Whisky's i.e. Jameson, Bushmills and Redbreast !


 
 Sweet. Your welcome. I have a 30 year old bottle of Hennessy here as well.


----------



## magiccabbage

The input selector on my WA5 is kind of loose. I'm thinking it got knocked around in transit because of the marks on the box. 
 Here is a picture ¬

  
 There is a screw on the bottom of the Knob that I did tighten but its still loose which is leading me to thinking that something needs to be tightened on the inside of the amp. 
 Has anyone taken the faceplate off? I wonder if there is a screw at the other side of the faceplate that can be tightened?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> Sweet. *Your welcome. I have a 30 year old bottle of Hennessy here as well. *


 
 Ooo yes please ) 
  
 I think I will take you up on a visit to you in the New Year magiccabbage.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

dubstep girl said:


> wa5 (with decent tubes) beats fully balanced and maxed out wa22 pretty easily...


 
 Thank you DG for your post.   Much appreciated.


----------



## bbophead

bonesy jonesy said:


> p.s.  My favourite whiskies are Irish Whisky's i.e. Jameson, Bushmills and Redbreast !


 
 OT, but, no love for Powers?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

bbophead said:


> OT, but, no love for Powers?


 
 Haven't tried Powers or Paddy but heard they are also great Irish Whiskies !


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> wa5 (with decent tubes) ...


 
  
 That's the key statement for me. The WA5 is all about the tubes that you put in it. It is a very transparent tube platform and it scales very well with better tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone tried the EML 300b XlS?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

tonynewman said:


> That's the key statement for me. The WA5 is all about the tubes that you put in it. It is a very transparent tube platform and it scales very well with better tubes.


 
 Hi TonyNewman,
  
 How is the Aurilic Taurus Mk2 vs the WA5 and WA6 with HD800 and HD600 (as notice you have these amps) ?


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesy jonesy said:


> Hi TonyNewman,
> 
> How is the Aurilic Taurus Mk2 vs the WA5 and WA6 with HD800 and HD600 (as notice you have these amps) ?


 
  
 I mate the HD600 with the WA6 - they seem to pair really well together, even with a modest DAC like the SimAudio Moon 100D. This is my PC audio rig for gaming / web surfing / casual listening and it works really well. Sometimes I am surprised at what the WA6 + HD600 combination can deliver - very enjoyable mid-range setup.
  
 My 'serious' setup has the Vega DAC feeding the WA5 and Taurus Mk2 via a split RCA feed. The XLR DAC otuput goes to the TRV-845SE big rig amp. I have done a lot of A/B testing with the RCA split feed and I can't hear any degradation from splitting the RCA output, even when running all 3 amps simultaneously from the Vega.
  
 The WA5 is very tube dependant - put top tubes in the thing and it usually beats the Taurus, particularly with a modded HE6 driven from the K1K output. Put crap (stock) tubes in it and it doesn't. No surprises there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 With appropriate tubes the WA5 produces great musicality. I really, really like it with the right 300Bs and vocal tracks (SERPs, Psvane WE300B replicas ... etc). Something about the SET sound that the Taurus (or any other SS amp I have heard) just can't do. Yummy stuff. There is a richness and timbre, combined with detail, that can be utterly enchanting, but you have to be into the tube sound and the right tubes have to be in there. If you buy a WA5 you really should include a hefty wedge of cash for tubes in your budget, otherwise there is no point.
  
 After modding the HD800 I am finding it sounds best from the Taurus in BAL mode. Even better than via the WA5 HPH output. This really surprised me, as I had previously found it better from the WA5. This is a great combination and I am getting a new love for the Taurus + HD800 after modding. I used the adhesive foam inserts and it made a huge difference to my enjoyment of this headphone.
  
 Nothing beats the modded HE6 from the WA5 K1K port to my ears. This was the main reason why I bought the WA5 in the first place - to drive the HE6 with enough juice to get the best (or very close to the best) from it - and it hasn't disappointed. The HE6 thread has a ton of words about this great headphone. Combining the abilities of the modded HE6 with the SET sound signature was my goal. The WA5 is one of the very few headphone amps that can do this. Only downside is the cost - the HE6 + WA5 + good tubes is a big investment. Not quite into BHSE + SR009 territory cost-wise, but not all that far away either.
  
 Hope this helps. Apologies for blathering on a bit. I'm very enthusiastic on this gear


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Cool you have modded the HD800 now.
  
 I have listened to Tony's rig. With a second opinion I can confirm that the modded HE6 + WA5 is the best music I have ever heard. That good.
  
 All this talk is making feel inferior. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now want to throw my prize WA22 in the bin.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

tonynewman said:


> I mate the HD600 with the WA6 - they seem to pair really well together, even with a modest DAC like the SimAudio Moon 100D. This is my PC audio rig for gaming / web surfing / casual listening and it works really well. Sometimes I am surprised at what the WA6 + HD600 combination can deliver - very enjoyable mid-range setup.
> 
> My 'serious' setup has the Vega DAC feeding the WA5 and Taurus Mk2 via a split RCA feed. The XLR DAC otuput goes to the TRV-845SE big rig amp. I have done a lot of A/B testing with the RCA split feed and I can't hear any degradation from splitting the RCA output, even when running all 3 amps simultaneously from the Vega.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you TonyNewman for replying to my post.
  
 A great post with a lot of very useful information.  Much appreciated.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Cool you have modded the HD800 now.
> 
> ...


 
 Me too.      
  
 Trawling through the internet the WA5 has great reviews.  Haven't come across a bad one yet.


----------



## Badas

bonesy jonesy said:


> Me too.
> 
> Trawling through the internet the WA5 has great reviews.  Haven't come across a bad one yet.


 

 The thing is the WA22 isn't bad.
  
 Some of the sound qualities that these kings of Woo talk about I hear on my WA22 (rolled tubes) as well.
  
 So if I hear them I can only imagine the magic that the supreme model Woo's are producing.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Cool you have modded the HD800 now.
> 
> ...


 

 Can you ship that bin to me? I'll pay shipping and a $50 handling fee.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

badas said:


> *The thing is the WA22 isn't bad.*
> 
> Some of the sound qualities that these kings of Woo talk about I hear on my WA22 (rolled tubes) as well.
> 
> So if I hear them I can only imagine the magic that the supreme model Woo's are producing.


 
 +A  Yes 100% with you Badas 
  
 My WA22 with the upgraded tubes sounds very good with my HD650's and HD800's.    
  
 Not so good with the LCD2's though as the LCD2's are just too dark headphone for my liking. 
  
 Also not as clear or detailed as my Woo Wee and Stax 009's with Wee connected to my Chord Cyan Click Integrated amp. 
  
 But in this game your always thinking how good the next model is until you end up considering the companies top of the line amp.   So if I buy the WA5 Im sure in 3 to 6 months I will most probably be looking at the WA234 :-O (both also would be used with the Wee to run my 009's)    Problem is it's crazy money buying the 234 ! 
  
 The other issue that is always on my mind is how much do you have to spend in order to get a great sound you can immerse yourself in and be totally happy with i.e. the magical point of diminishing returns !.  
 Take for instance when I compared a BHSE with Stax 009's and my Woo Wee with Stax 009's linked to my Chord Cyan Click Integrated amp last week with a fellow headfi.org member.  
 The BHSE sounded very good but not an extra $4000 + good compared to the Wee ($500) and my second hand Cyan Click ($1,800)  !


----------



## Badas

birdmanofct said:


> Can you ship that bin to me? I'll pay shipping and a $50 handling fee.


 

 No way bud.


----------



## TonyNewman

> Originally Posted by *Bonesy Jonesy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> But in this game your always thinking how good the next model is until you end up considering the companies top of the line amp.   So if I buy the WA5 Im sure in 3 to 6 months I will most probably be looking at the WA234 ...


 
  
 WA234 came out not long after I bought my WA5. Starting to hear reviews about how great it is, and a step up from the WA5. It is so far outside my budget it isn't funny.
  
 I'm very happy with my WA5 and need to be content with that - it's not like the existence of the WA234 makes the WA5 sound any worse


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> WA234 came out not long after I bought my WA5. Starting to hear reviews about how great it is, and a step up from the WA5. It is so far outside my budget it isn't funny.
> 
> I'm very happy with my WA5 and need to be content with that - *it's not like the existence of the WA234 makes the WA5 sound any worse*


 
  
 Nice way of looking at it.
  
 WA22 fitted my requirement.
 I didn't have space for a larger amp. It had a balanced output and I could just afford. So no buyers remorse here.


----------



## Stereolab42

magiccabbage said:


> The input selector on my WA5 is kind of loose. I'm thinking it got knocked around in transit because of the marks on the box.
> Here is a picture ¬
> 
> There is a screw on the bottom of the Knob that I did tighten but its still loose which is leading me to thinking that something needs to be tightened on the inside of the amp.
> Has anyone taken the faceplate off? I wonder if there is a screw at the other side of the faceplate that can be tightened?


----------



## Clayton SF

Listening to the best of both worlds. Zu Audio speakers with the Decware Mini Torii, and the Woo Audio 4 with Denon D7000. Ahhh. 'Tis the season....
 to be
 in total bliss.


----------



## Khragon

Anyone with WA5 notice loud noise on the right channel using TS 6F8G round plate? I hear louder noise at 1 o'clock - 4 o'clock position.  I don't have any problem with my Syvania 6F8G or TS 6SN7 round plate.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> Anyone with WA5 notice loud noise on the right channel using TS 6F8G round plate? I hear louder noise at 1 o'clock - 4 o'clock position.  I don't have any problem with my Syvania 6F8G or TS 6SN7 round plate.


 
  
 With the first set of 6F8G adapters I owned -- with the metal/ceramic base -- I noticed loud interference suddenly pop up in the right channel once the knob made it past about 11 o'clock. The all-plastic adapters fixed the issue.


----------



## Badas

Took a couple of pics of my Woo this morning.
  
 I thought I would share.
  
 Going to crank it up this afternoon and listen to some Joe Cocker. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sad news.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Took a couple of pics of my Woo this morning.
> 
> I thought I would share.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sad news indeed ... didn't know this until I read your post. I will listen, as well, in memoriam.
  
 Nice rig, BTW, and a question: your Woo and Oppo HA-1 are sitting on transparent shelving material. Is that glass, acrylic or something else? Beautiful shelf and overall presentation, BTW.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Sad news indeed ... didn't know this until I read your post. I will listen, as well, in memoriam.
> 
> Nice rig, BTW, and a question: your Woo and Oppo HA-1 are sitting on transparent shelving material. Is that glass, acrylic or something else? Beautiful shelf and overall presentation, BTW.




Listening now. Such a talent.

Both the Woo and Oppo are sitting on the Oppo HA-1 stands sold in limited numbers by Oppo. I got two so I could sit the Woo on it as well. They do look snappy. I'm not sure if the shelf is glass or acrylic. I have never worked it out. Here is a better pic.


----------



## abvolt

very cool setup indeed..


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Listening now. Such a talent.
> 
> Both the Woo and Oppo are sitting on the Oppo HA-1 stands sold in limited numbers by Oppo. I got two so I could sit the Woo on it as well. They do look snappy. I'm not sure if the shelf is glass or acrylic. I have never worked it out. Here is a better pic.


 
  
 I would hope they are acrylic, instead of glass (vibration considerations, if you are into all of that...). They are very elegant looking. I am guessing you could tap it with the end of a headphone connector plug - glass will make a sharper sound and acrylic will sound dull/flat when tapped.
  
 Anyway, congrats on a spectacular rig...


----------



## Khragon

stereolab42 said:


> With the first set of 6F8G adapters I owned -- with the metal/ceramic base -- I noticed loud interference suddenly pop up in the right channel once the knob made it past about 11 o'clock. The all-plastic adapters fixed the issue.


 

 Which adapter are you using, I will probably get a pair.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I would hope they are acrylic, instead of glass (vibration considerations, if you are into all of that...). They are very elegant looking. I am guessing you could tap it with the end of a headphone connector plug - glass will make a sharper sound and acrylic will sound dull/flat when tapped.
> 
> Anyway, congrats on a spectacular rig...




I just checked. Yes acrylic. I must say it had me fooled. Very high quality. 
I was a bit worried at first as the Woo is no light weight. At least double the Oppo weight. However no problems.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> Which adapter are you using, I will probably get a pair.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171555247064


----------



## Khragon

stereolab42 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171555247064


 

 Thanks! bought 2, I hope this does the trick.  I'm really surprise that woo adapter isn't higher quality.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Listening now. Such a talent.
> 
> Both the Woo and Oppo are sitting on the Oppo HA-1 stands sold in limited numbers by Oppo. I got two so I could sit the Woo on it as well. They do look snappy. I'm not sure if the shelf is glass or acrylic. I have never worked it out. Here is a better pic.


 

 Like the setup mate !!
  
 In other news the Elrog's have arrived in Sydney this morning and are on their way up, hope to report back tomorrow evening with photos. I am told they should pretty good out of the box, but get really sexy at around  80-100 hours.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Like the setup mate !!
> 
> In other news the Elrog's have arrived in Sydney this morning and are on their way up, hope to report back tomorrow evening with photos. I am told they should pretty good out of the box, but get really sexy at around  80-100 hours.


 
  
 Be still my tube-obsessed heart!! I have a pair of ER300Bs and ER845 reserved from the same supplier. Have to drag my ass out to Sydney in January for pickup.


----------



## isquirrel

Ah yes the valve love, well nothing wrong with that. Definitely becomes an addiction though. Well hopefully tomorrow night I'll be able to report on the latest instalment. 

Tony, forgive my ignorance but can you use 845's in the 234's?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Ah yes the valve love, well nothing wrong with that. Definitely becomes an addiction though. Well hopefully tomorrow night I'll be able to report on the latest instalment.
> 
> Tony, forgive my ignorance but can you use 845's in the 234's?


 
  
 The 845s are for my speaker amp - Triode Corp TRV845SE. Class A 20wpc - drives my Brodmann floorstanders beautifully. Only headphone amp I know of that uses 845s is the Viva Egoista. More the pity, as the 845 tube sound is truly wonderful.
  
 Some hot 845 porn. These tubes burn hotter than the sun. The amp acts as a heater / grill - great in winter, not so good in summer.
  

  
 The Triode amp use the 6SN7 input tube, then 2A3s driving 845s in the output stage. I have seen other designs using 300Bs driving 845s (like the LIne Magnetic amps), but mine doesn't.
  
 I own a WA5 - I dream the dream of the WA234, but that is most unlikely to ever happen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My craptastic car will need replacement soon, and that has to take priority over a WA234. Besides, I am finding the WA5 with upgraded tubes a great performer. It hits the spot nicely.
  
 So the ER300Bs are for my WA5, the ER845s for my TRV845SE.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> then 2A3s driving 845s in the output stage.


 
 Wow - 2A3's as drivers, sounds awesome.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> The 845s are for my speaker amp - Triode Corp TRV845SE. Class A 20wpc - drives my Brodmann floorstanders beautifully. Only headphone amp I know of that uses 845s is the Viva Egoista. More the pity, as the 845 tube sound is truly wonderful.
> 
> Some hot 845 porn. These tubes burn hotter than the sun. The amp acts as a heater / grill - great in winter, not so good in summer.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Tony,
  
 Notice your using the Psvane CV181's, I have a set which I haven't used much at all, they sound bright and metallic in my system, your experience must be better ? Do these things take the typical Psvane - forever to burn in?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Thanks Tony,
> 
> Notice your using the Psvane CV181's, I have a set which I haven't used much at all, they sound bright and metallic in my system, your experience must be better ? Do these things take the typical Psvane - forever to burn in?


 
  
 They do take a while to reach their best. Around 150 - 200 hours would be my estimate.
  
 The brightness and metallic sound does fade - but never completely goes away. An amount of 'crunchiness' remains. If paired with warmish tubes, then that becomes a non-issue for me. I am willing to go to the hassle because the Psvane T2 CV-181s deliver better extension and detail than any other 6SN7 equivalent I have tried (NOS or new produciton). They are also very balanced and even. A very nuetral tube, after burn in, with a slight lingering edge to them. With the right pairing they are wonderfully good, but any warmth and musicality has to come from other tubes in the chain. Almost a solid state kind of tube, if that makes any sense.
  
 For example, in the WA5 I really like them with a darkish rectifier (Psvane WE274B replica) and darkish 300Bs (SERPs or Psvane WE300B replica).
  
 In the TRV I pair them with Psvane WE275s (2A3 in a mini WE300B style), and the Psvane WE845.
  
 You get warmth and musicality together with extension and detail, but the tube matching requires some care and experimentation.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

tonynewman said:


> *The 845s are for my speaker amp - Triode Corp TRV845SE*. Class A 20wpc - drives my Brodmann floorstanders beautifully. Only headphone amp I know of that uses 845s is the Viva Egoista. More the pity, as the 845 tube sound is truly wonderful.
> 
> Some hot 845 porn. These tubes burn hotter than the sun. The amp acts as a heater / grill - great in winter, not so good in summer.
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome looking amp A+


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> They do take a while to reach their best. Around 150 - 200 hours would be my estimate.
> 
> The brightness and metallic sound does fade - but never completely goes away. An amount of 'crunchiness' remains. If paired with warmish tubes, then that becomes a non-issue for me. I am willing to go to the hassle because the Psvane T2 CV-181s deliver better extension and detail than any other 6SN7 equivalent I have tried (NOS or new produciton). They are also very balanced and even. A very nuetral tube, after burn in, with a slight lingering edge to them. With the right pairing they are wonderfully good, but any warmth and musicality has to come from other tubes in the chain. Almost a solid state kind of tube, if that makes any sense.
> 
> ...


 

 Great amp !
  
 That makes sense, thanks. I recently received a pair of very tightly matched TS RP with the best test results I have yet seen, they sound so much better for my tastes than any other 6SN7 I have heard. They have a magical lush sound whilst being holographic and immediate. I admit I have always preferred them even over the Brimars, however I was surprised at this latest set of Tung Sol's. Having said that I don't like any brightness or edge in my sound. That probably explains my preference for the LCD-3's.
  
 I am thinking that the higher up the 300B chain you go the more refined the sound. The next month will be interesting with the Elrog's and the Takatsukis & WE's arriving.
  
 I will give the Psvanes CV181's another crack. Darkish is exactly how I would describe the Psvane 274B
  
 Thanks for the feedback, I am by the window looking for the AUS Post truck........


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Great amp !
> 
> That makes sense, thanks. I recently received a pair of very tightly matched TS RP with the best test results I have yet seen, they sound so much better for my tastes than any other 6SN7 I have heard. They have a magical lush sound whilst being holographic and immediate. I admit I have always preferred them even over the Brimars, however I was surprised at this latest set of Tung Sol's. Having said that I don't like any brightness or edge in my sound. That probably explains my preference for the LCD-3's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's the combination of extension, detail and musicality that can be so hard to find. The T2s have 2 out of 3, and I can work around the last one with tube matching.
  
 How are the TS RPs with detail and extension? If they can tick all 3 boxes then they might be what I need.
  
 I'll be fascinated to hear your comparisons of the Elrog vs Takasuki vs WE.


----------



## isquirrel

The Elrog's are in the house ! Beautiful build quality, bases look better than I thought. Letting them warm up for a while before 1st listen......
  
 Will report back shortly.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> It's the combination of extension, detail and musicality that can be so hard to find. The T2s have 2 out of 3, and I can work around the last one with tube matching.
> 
> How are the TS RPs with detail and extension? If they can tick all 3 boxes then they might be what I need.
> 
> I'll be fascinated to hear your comparisons of the Elrog vs Takasuki vs WE.


 
 The Tung Sol's properly matched are heaven, but expensive, I have two slightly different sets, one with VT231 stamped on the base, but 6SN7GT on the glass the other set have only 6SN7GT on the bases and glass, if pushed I would say the 2nd set are marginally better. Its important to get them tightly matched with excellent test results, and look for early 1940's production. I have had an experience with a pair which sounded sibilant and so so forth they needed 24/7 burn in for there 1st week to strip the cathode  clean and to get best performance.
  
 Found this on Tube Maze
  
"I have found that these old RoundPlate Tung Sol 6SN7s often need some extended usage to “wake up” the cathode and strip off the oxidized layer of barium on the cathode to get down to the strongly emitting layers of cathode emulsion. Before an extended “burn in” or “wake up” period, the roundplate 6SN7s are a little bit sluggish-sounding, and sound a little bit muddled/muddy, and in particular do not have good treble extrension or “air” in the high frequencies. But.. oh, WOW, when these legendary roundplate TungSol 6SN7s DO wake up after some burn in time… they will absolutely blow you away. They combine the midrange layering and dimensionality of the Brimar CV1988 with the sparkle and air on top in the extreme treble response that usually is heard only in the Sylvania 6SN7 W (black base, NOT metal base!!) But it is the midrange that is where the roundplate TungSol 6SN7 makes magic happen. It is difficult to describe; the roundplate 6SN7 by TungSol has such incredible 3-D imaging/soundstaging and such natural, musical timbre in the all-important midrange that it makes it very hard to go back to any other 6SN7 after you have spent a few weeks with the roundplate TungSol. This is my favorite 6SN7 tube…


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> The Tung Sol's properly matched are heaven, but expensive, I have two slightly different sets, one with VT231 stamped on the base, but 6SN7GT on the glass the other set have only 6SN7GT on the bases and glass, if pushed I would say the 2nd set are marginally better. Its important to get them tightly matched with excellent test results, and look for early 1940's production. I have had an experience with a pair which sounded sibilant and so so forth they needed 24/7 burn in for there 1st week to strip the cathode  clean and to get best performance.
> 
> Found this on Tube Maze
> 
> "I have found that these old RoundPlate Tung Sol 6SN7s often need some extended usage to “wake up” the cathode and strip off the oxidized layer of barium on the cathode to get down to the strongly emitting layers of cathode emulsion. Before an extended “burn in” or “wake up” period, the roundplate 6SN7s are a little bit sluggish-sounding, and sound a little bit muddled/muddy, and in particular do not have good treble extrension or “air” in the high frequencies. But.. oh, WOW, when these legendary roundplate TungSol 6SN7s DO wake up after some burn in time… they will absolutely blow you away. They combine the midrange layering and dimensionality of the Brimar CV1988 with the sparkle and air on top in the extreme treble response that usually is heard only in the Sylvania 6SN7 W (black base, NOT metal base!!) But it is the midrange that is where the roundplate TungSol 6SN7 makes magic happen. It is difficult to describe; the roundplate 6SN7 by TungSol has such incredible 3-D imaging/soundstaging and such natural, musical timbre in the all-important midrange that it makes it very hard to go back to any other 6SN7 after you have spent a few weeks with the roundplate TungSol. This is my favorite 6SN7 tube…


 
  
 Great pics of the Elrogs - looking forward to your impressions - and thanks for the info on the TS RPs.


----------



## Porteroso

Good Lord, those Elrogs just look beautiful. Screw the lit up look, those are sexy as all getout.


----------



## isquirrel

Okay some initial first impressions of the Elrog 300B's after 4 hours of warm up and burn in.
  
 Very musical with excellent extension, they don't sound like any other 300B I have (and that's a good thing who needs another replica) bass performance is stellar. Good detail and sense of soundstage height and depth. Tonally either on the neutral or slightly darker side.
  
 Musicality is good, quite a lush sound, good sense of timing, they lay the music out in front of you.
  
 Already better than the KR300 Balloons which are very well burned in. Not light years better but I can hear how they will improve with some time as they have already come along nicely since listening 3 hours ago. The Elrog's are something special, how special we shall see, they need time.
  
 I have to get cracking on Christmas Eve preparations but will report in more detail tonight


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Okay some initial first impressions of the Elrog 300B's after 4 hours of warm up and burn in...


 
  
 Thank you. Keep em coming - feeds my anticipation of getting my grubby hands on a set in a few weeks


----------



## isquirrel

I can categorically say that these are the best sounding 300B's I have. They really do sound stunning and no doubt there will be further improvements over the next 100 hours.
  
 Better bass than even the SERP's without sounding heavy and dark like they the SERP's can. Musicality is better than both the KR's and SERP's. Great fit with the Mullard metal bases rectifiers, they have the same speed and liquidity.
  
 @ Tony - you will be very happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Merry Christmas !


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I can categorically say that these are the best sounding 300B's I have. They really do sound stunning and no doubt there will be further improvements over the next 100 hours.
> 
> Better bass than even the SERP's without sounding heavy and dark like they the SERP's can. Musicality is better than both the KR's and SERP's. Great fit with the Mullard metal bases rectifiers, they have the same speed and liquidity.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Freaken AWESOME!!! Thanks for sharing - much appreciated.
  
 I hope the ER845s are cut from the same sonic cloth as the ER300Bs - it's going to be a goddam audiophile ORGY


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Okay some initial first impressions of the Elrog 300B's after 4 hours of warm up and burn in.
> 
> Very musical with excellent extension, they don't sound like any other 300B I have (and that's a good thing who needs another replica) bass performance is stellar. Good detail and sense of soundstage height and depth. Tonally either on the neutral or slightly darker side.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for taking the time. - this 300b talk the last few pages has been very helpful for me.


----------



## kchew

Merry Christmas to all Woozies from GMT +8.


----------



## Clayton SF

kchew said:


> Merry Christmas to all Woozies from GMT +8.


 
 That is such a nice glow to see. Ho ho ho!


----------



## isquirrel

Some glowing Elrog goodness


----------



## isquirrel

kchew said:


> Merry Christmas to all Woozies from GMT +8.


 

 EML Mesh 300b's? Lovely


----------



## Clayton SF

^ GLOW!
 WANT more more more.


----------



## isquirrel

Okay some more detailed feedback on how the Elrog 300B's are coming along. They have had 10 hours of burn in and then a rest for 6 hours (following Tony's advice here !) so this morning they have opened up quite beautifully. First thing I noticed was how drawn I am into the music, very emotionally rewarding, lovely rich musicality flowing from them.
  
 Listening to Vide Cor Meum, haunting, wonderful sense of acoustic space, and richness of timbre both with vocal and instruments. I have got goosebumps - the ultimate test. Don't usually get this from digital.
  
 Stunning, I am getting a 2nd pair. The Takatsukis are going to have be exceptional to beat these out.
  
 IMHO better even than the WE's certainly in the bass department but with a few more hours holy cow how knows they are getting very close to the WE's midrange sweetness.
  
 After some rolling, best driver tube is the Tung Sol RP BG, hands down, the Mullard metal bases just are so much better than the Psvane's or for that matter any other rectifier I have. Interesting to see what the Brimars will do.
  
 My significant other (who has far better hearing than me apparently !) put on Vide Cor Meum and she sat there riveted and then I heard her sniffle, yes the tears were flowing, she said and I quote "That's the closest I have every heard to the real performance it was so emotional I had to cry"
  
*So there we have it folks, its official, the Elrog 300B's will move you to tears. *


----------



## kazsud

isquirrel said:


> Okay some more detailed feedback on how the Elrog 300B's are coming along. They have had 10 hours of burn in and then a rest for 6 hours (following Tony's advice here !) so this morning they have opened up quite beautifully. First thing I noticed was how drawn I am into the music, very emotionally rewarding, lovely rich musicality flowing from them.
> 
> Listening to Vide Cor Meum, haunting, wonderful sense of acoustic space, and richness of timbre both with vocal and instruments. I have got goosebumps - the ultimate test. Don't usually get this from digital.
> 
> ...




I wonder how they'll sound w/ the Wa5.......


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Some glowing Elrog goodness


Great pic isquirrel.


----------



## isquirrel

kazsud said:


> I wonder how they'll sound w/ the Wa5.......


 

 Just divine....


----------



## Silent One

isquirrel said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > It's the combination of extension, detail and musicality that can be so hard to find. The T2s have 2 out of 3, and I can work around the last one with tube matching.
> ...


 
 I bought my pair of TSBG-RPs (VT-231; 1942-44) pre-owned and I have to say that I experienced waking the pair up. At first play I neither liked the tubes or was amused, given the price paid. Kept playing them inside my _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition _changing drive tubes and rectifiers looking for love. Nearly sold them week one!
  
 It wasn't until I was well into month two that I found love AND magic! Only after clocking some hours, the tubes went from *O*verrated to *O*H MY! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


kchew said:


> Merry Christmas to all Woozies from GMT +8.


 
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Some glowing Elrog goodness


 
 Some gorgeous looking pix, there kchew; isquirrel
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Okay some more detailed feedback on how the Elrog 300B's are coming along. They have had 10 hours of burn in and then a rest for 6 hours (following Tony's advice here !) so this morning they have opened up quite beautifully. First thing I noticed was how drawn I am into the music, very emotionally rewarding, lovely rich musicality flowing from them.
> 
> Listening to Vide Cor Meum, haunting, wonderful sense of acoustic space, and richness of timbre both with vocal and instruments. I have got goosebumps - the ultimate test. Don't usually get this from digital.
> 
> ...


 
 I too, can't wait for you to bring us a Elrog vs Takasuki vs WE blast!


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

kchew said:


> Merry Christmas to all Woozies from GMT +8.


 
 ++A  Fantastico   Looks very Christmassy.     Tubes are just great !


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Using amp portion of WA7 for the HD800, would the Matrix X-Sabre or NAD M51 be a better pairing?


----------



## Clayton SF

It's the glow of the Season.
 Happy Christmas.


----------



## isquirrel

Thinking of buying the WA7 and PS for the partner, have to get her off my rig......


----------



## kazsud

isquirrel said:


> Thinking of buying the WA7 and PS for the partner, have to get her off my rig......


 

 lol


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Thinking of buying the WA7 and PS for the partner, have to get her off my rig......


Do you think she'll notice a difference between the WA7 and the 234? If not, go ahead and give it a try.


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> Do you think she'll notice a difference between the WA7 and the 234? If not, go ahead and give it a try.


 

 I am still playing the "Face Cream" card, I put it to her that if she gave up on the Face Cream the Woo fairy might pay a visit, but you know I wish you hadn't said that because we all know how a woman's mind works it'll be me that ends up with the WA7.
  
 Jack Woo laughed his head off and said you'll have to but her another set of 234's - pigs arse I will, imagine the fights over the 300B's


----------



## isquirrel

She's even discovered Tidal - what a disaster ! Apparently this morning oh baby these valves have really opened up, What !
  
 I wouldn't know as I haven't heard them yet today.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> I am still playing the "Face Cream" card, I put it to her that if she gave up on the Face Cream the Woo fairy might pay a visit, but you know I wish you hadn't said that because we all know how a woman's mind works it'll be me that ends up with the WA7.
> 
> Jack Woo laughed his head off and said you'll have to but her another set of 234's - pigs arse I will, imagine the fights over the 300B's :angry_face:


I think your on the right track sir. The WA7 is little, cute, and has a very modern aesthetic which many women prefer. As long as she appreciates good and well recorded music the WA7 shouldn't disappoint her. It could be a lot worse, a friend girl of mine was gifted a white Bentley convertible for Christmas.


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> I think your on the right track sir. The WA7 is little, cute, and has a very modern aesthetic which many women prefer. As long as she appreciates good and well recorded music the WA7 shouldn't disappoint her. It could be a lot worse, a friend girl of mine was gifted a white Bentley convertible for Christmas.


 

 Holy crap, really I would (almost) be prepared to become someones girlfriend for a Bentley Convertible.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Jack Woo laughed his head off and said you'll have to but her another set of 234's - pigs arse I will, imagine the fights over the 300B's


 
  
 Easy - a second set of ER300Bs to go with the second WA234


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> Holy crap, really I would (almost) be prepared to become someones girlfriend for a Bentley Convertible.


 
 NO, NEVER... PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT…EVER!!!


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> NO, NEVER... PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT…EVER!!!


 

 LOL,


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Easy - a second set of ER300Bs to go with the second WA234


 

 Tony, please don't put any more idea's into her head, she 'monitors' these forums. Matt has suggested a Geel Soul with the Abyss package, not a bad idea.
  
 You will be pleased to hear the ER300B's have come along extremely well - up to 50 hours now, bass performance is now coming out. The aspect I love most about them is the musicality a friend bought his grey plate 1930 WE's and we both thought the ER300B's were different but equally enjoyable. The bass performance was a no brainer the ER's killed the WE's. You are spot on about how they need rest when burning in, it seems to be an essential part of the burn in process.
  
 Bryan reckons 80-100 hours are the sweet spot for them.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Tony, please don't put any more idea's into her head, she 'monitors' these forums. Matt has suggested a Geel Soul with the Abyss package, not a bad idea.
> 
> You will be pleased to hear the ER300B's have come along extremely well - up to 50 hours now, bass performance is now coming out. The aspect I love most about them is the musicality a friend bought his grey plate 1930 WE's and we both thought the ER300B's were different but equally enjoyable. The bass performance was a no brainer the ER's killed the WE's. You are spot on about how they need rest when burning in, it seems to be an essential part of the burn in process.
> 
> Bryan reckons 80-100 hours are the sweet spot for them.


 
  
 Sorry - attempting humour - not trying to cause any additional grief.
  
 Good to know that the ER300Bs are turning out to be right up there with the vintage WE300Bs. With the way the vintage WE300Bs are priced that just isn't an option for me, but I can do the ER300Bs (and perhaps the Takasukis later on). Really looking forward to getting my pair in January.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Sorry - attempting humour - not trying to cause any additional grief.
> 
> Good to know that the ER300Bs are turning out to be right up there with the vintage WE300Bs. With the way the vintage WE300Bs are priced that just isn't an option for me, but I can do the ER300Bs (and perhaps the Takasukis later on). Really looking forward to getting my pair in January.


 
 No worries, only having some fun myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I thought they were better than the WE's and these were the Grey Plate late 1930 ones !
  
 Lucky you have a set of the ER's reserved they must be all gone for now. be great if you can get together with matt and I while you over so you can hear the 234's with all the 300B's.
  
 I am still waiting on the EML 300B & 5U4G Mesh plates to show up.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Lucky you have a set of the ER's reserved they must be all gone for now. be great if you can get together with matt and I while you over so you can hear the 234's with all the 300B's.


 
  
 Have a set of ER300Bs and ER485s (for my big rig) reserved. Will be making a lightning visit for pickup in January - can't linger due to work commitments.
  
 I am hoping the ER485s can deliver similar magic as the ER300Bs (best info I can find is that they will).


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Have a set of ER300Bs and ER485s (for my big rig) reserved. Will be making a lightning visit for pickup in January - can't linger due to work commitments.
> 
> I am hoping the ER485s can deliver similar magic as the ER300Bs (best info I can find is that they will).


 

 Shame NZ customs are a PITA, otherwise I would send them out to you as used radio parts.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Shame NZ customs are a PITA, otherwise I would send them out to you as used radio parts


 
  
 It's kinda random - most things go through without a hassle - but for a combined order of ER300B + ER845 it's worth jumping on some cheap mid-week flights and going across for pickup.


----------



## bbophead

Such a first world problem.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Thinking of buying the WA7 and PS for the partner, have to get her off my rig......


 

 I'm still working on that problem...


----------



## Krutsch

New Tubes... 7236 Silvania Power Tube for the WA3:
  


 A little less volume/power than the stock power tube for the WA3 (which was a huge surprise for me - I expected more power), but takes the edge off of the midrange I was experiencing with some tracks (e.g. Agnes Obel). I will give these some track time, then try the Tung-Sol 7236 for comparison (which also came in the mail today).
  

  
 I have Telefunken and Amperex driver tubes in-bound... loving this hobby


----------



## Clayton SF

After a year in storage Ultrainferno has convinced me to listen to my WA22 (Nov. 2011) once again. It is warming up. Have a nice weekend!
  
 Tubes:
 Mullard GZ37
 CBS 6SN7GT cleartops
 Chatham 2399 (gift from Ultrainferno--thanks!)


----------



## isquirrel

Received the EML 300B mesh plates yesterday. I was expecting a warm lush sound but I find the sound one dimensional and lacking depth and emotion. Hopefully they will improve with more hours on them. EML recommend running the tubes for no more than 4 hours during burn in.
  
 My gut feel is that the real battle for top 300B is going to be between the Elrog's the Takatsukis and the WE's. I have gone back and listened to the other 300B's and nothing compares to the Elrog's. They have a shocking realism, very clean sound but rich in texture. Congrats Tony for the heads up on these !
  
 Hopefully the Elrog's and the Takatsukis will complement each other for different moods and music.


----------



## bbophead

So many first world problems, so little time.


----------



## Krutsch

The new tubes are here... the new tubes are here...!
  


 Power: Tung-Sol 7236
 Driver: Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8/ECC88
  
 Warning up... and now, on to listening...


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> The new tubes are here... the new tubes are here...!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How's it sounding ?


----------



## kazsud

isquirrel said:


> Received the EML 300B mesh plates yesterday. I was expecting a warm lush sound but I find the sound one dimensional and lacking depth and emotion. Hopefully they will improve with more hours on them. EML recommend running the tubes for no more than 4 hours during burn in.
> 
> My gut feel is that the real battle for top 300B is going to be between the Elrog's the Takatsukis and the WE's. I have gone back and listened to the other 300B's and nothing compares to the Elrog's. They have a shocking realism, very clean sound but rich in texture. Congrats Tony for the heads up on these !
> 
> Hopefully the Elrog's and the Takatsukis will complement each other for different moods and music.


 

 I've got the Elrog tubes at the top of my list for when I get my Wa5


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> How's it sounding ?


 

 So, I've had the Tung Sol 7236 in the power socket for a few days and I'm not sure I don't like the Sylvania 7236 better (I need to go back and re-listen for particulars on the sound) - but both are improvements over the stock power tube.
  
 On the new Amperex driver tubes; I let them warm up for 15 minutes and started playing my favorite "new gear demo music", which is my SACD copy of Steely Dan's Aja. The sound difference from the stock driver tubes was interesting and not subtle.
  
 I was blown away by the clarity in the lower mids / upper bass frequencies. I hate to sound like a 6moons reviewer, but I really heard a separation of instruments, a clarity and, well, sounds I haven't heard before from this disc (which I've listened to quite a bit).
  
 The bad side, however, was the a veiled sound to the treble frequencies (I'm not experienced enough to guess the frequency range), but the highs were muted - at first. I let it go, listened to the entire album, then switched to the SACD of Pink Floyd's DSotM and listened to that in it's entirety. By the end of that disk, the highs started to expose themselves more. Then I moved on to Wish You Were Here and by the end of that disc, I wasn't aware of the muted highs.
  
 I am wondering if my sensitivity to the lower mids / upper bass was due to the muting of the highs, at the start. It was kinda cool to experience, though - it was like hearing a familiar disc for the first time.
  
 Anyway, I am going to have another listen tonight and see how things unfold with some jazz and classical favorites. Overall, however, a substantial improvement over the stock tubes which I was not expecting (to be honest, I expected them to sound the same).
  
 Next on deck for appraisal: the Telefunken E188CC/7308 drivers:


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Received the EML 300B mesh plates yesterday. I was expecting a warm lush sound but I find the sound one dimensional and lacking depth and emotion. Hopefully they will improve with more hours on them. EML recommend running the tubes for no more than 4 hours during burn in.
> 
> My gut feel is that the real battle for top 300B is going to be between the Elrog's the Takatsukis and the WE's. I have gone back and listened to the other 300B's and nothing compares to the Elrog's. They have a shocking realism, very clean sound but rich in texture. Congrats Tony for the heads up on these !
> 
> Hopefully the Elrog's and the Takatsukis will complement each other for different moods and music.


 
  
 I hope the Elrog's live up to their hefty reputation. I have had to put my purchase of the ER300Bs and ER845s on hold for a while - real life getting in the way of HeadFi


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> So, I've had the Tung Sol 7236 in the power socket for a few days and I'm not sure I don't like the Sylvania 7236 better (I need to go back and re-listen for particulars on the sound) - but both are improvements over the stock power tube.
> 
> On the new Amperex driver tubes; I let them warm up for 15 minutes and started playing my favorite "new gear demo music", which is my SACD copy of Steely Dan's Aja. The sound difference from the stock driver tubes was interesting and not subtle.
> 
> ...


 

 NOS Tung Sols are notorious for their long break in time and can sound sibilant and or flat in the treble region. Usually cleans up after a few weeks and then they are a different animal. Interesting to see how you go with the Tele's, usually excellent tubes.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I hope the Elrog's live up to their hefty reputation. I have had to put my purchase of the ER300Bs and ER845s on hold for a while - real life getting in the way of HeadFi


 

 That's a pity Tony, I was looking forward to your commentary.
  
 Happy New Year !


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> That's a pity Tony, I was looking forward to your commentary.
> 
> Happy New Year !


 
  
 Happy New Year to you too.
  
 Maybe Xmas 2015 will be the right time to go for the Elrogs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please do keep us updated on the Elrogs as they burn in - sounds like these might be the best of the best.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> NOS Tung Sols are notorious for their long break in time and can sound sibilant and or flat in the treble region. Usually cleans up after a few weeks and then they are a different animal. Interesting to see how you go with the Tele's, usually excellent tubes.


 

 Good advice and thanks. I am going to ride with this configuration for a while; see how things burn-in, before switching to the Telefunken (sort of save it for when I feel the itch to upgrade).
 Will definitely report back after a couple of weeks on the current tubes. Regardless, I am spending a lot of quality time with head-fi and loving every minute of it.
  
 Happy New Year!


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> That's a pity Tony, I was looking forward to your commentary.
> 
> Happy New Year !


 
 Hey would you be able to take a pic of the Elrog 300b and EML Mesh 300b side by side so I can get an idea of the size difference? 
  
 Thanks 
  
  Paddy


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Hey would you be able to take a pic of the Elrog 300b and EML Mesh 300b side by side so I can get an idea of the size difference?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paddy


 

 Yep will do, I have to take both amps apart today and change the top plates after someone assaulted them with an Abyss - seriously ! Can't believe a headphone would put such big dents in the plates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will post photos if people are interested.
  
 All the best to everyone for the New Year
  
 Simon


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Happy New Year to you too.
> 
> Maybe Xmas 2015 will be the right time to go for the Elrogs
> 
> ...


 

 Hopefully you'll get them before then. When I received the EML's they included info on their recommended way to burn in valves which is playing only for 4 hours at different levels then switch off to cool for a few hours I have been following that with the Elrog's and they have gone through 8 cycles, had my 1st listen again this morning and boy they have opened up with remarkable clarity, the other prominent change is to the bass extension and weight. 
  
 I am going to try and turn the tube sockets round 180 degrees today if there is enough cable, so that the valve labels face the front, not sure why Woo reverses them.
  
 Simon


----------



## reeltime

Just ordered the Elrog 300Bs today.  Replacing my EML Mesh.  Fingers crossed.
  
 I also spent the morning (in between Winter Classic periods-- I do love my hockey) relocating the power supply and battery for my phono stage away from the audio portion of the stage.  I have a Clearaudio Basic+ with the battery option, 3 different units.  I was picking up all kinds of nasty hum off my turntable.  
  
 I moved the power cord into another outlet and seem to have eliminated the source of the hum.  Want to do a little star grounding off both the RCA port and the tone arm stem.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Hi Simon, 
  
 Have you heard the WA5, comparing it to your 234?  I've got the first WA5 built for the market, and love it!  Now, after reading all these great posts about the Elrog 300B, would like to buy a pair....was almost going to go with a pair of  the Sophia Royal Princess matched 300b's, but am going to hold off for now, even though it will probably be a long time before the Elrog is available. 
  
 I am curious though, as to the sonic differences between these two amps...there sure is a huge price difference.   I do use the speaker outputs, like them a lot,  in fact, soon will be pairing the WA5 with a high-end 2 way speaker which has a 94db sensitivity into 8ohms.   
  
 Interestingly, my reason for buying the WA5 in the first place, was to listen to my pair of  AKG K1000's, which I also like,  however I find I use the speaker output a lot as well.   Have not heard the Audeze, the Sennheiser, or any other high-end headphone through the WA5.....that's another audition waiting to happen.      Thanks!


----------



## isquirrel

stax-i-nox said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Have you heard the WA5, comparing it to your 234?  I've got the first WA5 built for the market, and love it!  Now, after reading all these great posts about the Elrog 300B, would like to buy a pair....was almost going to go with a pair of  the Sophia Royal Princess matched 300b's, but am going to hold off for now, even though it will probably be a long time before the Elrog is available.
> 
> ...


 

 Would love to able to help here but I can't, haven't heard the WA5, a mate of mine, Matt on these forums had a fully tricked WA5, he is in Japan ATM picking up the Takatuskis for us both. His new 234's are waiting for him when he gets home next week. I sure he will be more than happy to give you the feedback you are looking for.
  
 He did say to me that with stock $40 valves the 234's were substantial better than the WA5 tricked out. Good decision to wait for the Elrog's they keep getting better and better. IMHO they are better than any other 300B I have here. I have them paired with some early Tung Sol RP BG VT-231 6SN7's, have also got the Brimars, RCA grey glass, Red Base, Sylvannia's, Ken Rad's - the TS suit the Elrog's perfectly. I have bought a 2nd set of Elrog's as I couldn't live without them. My "critical" partner adores them.
  
 I have the
  
 SERP's
 KR 300 Ballon's
 EML 300 Mesh Plates (need running in)
 Original grey plate WE's
  
 Sorry I can't help you any further


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> Just ordered the Elrog 300Bs today.  Replacing my EML Mesh.  Fingers crossed.
> 
> I also spent the morning (in between Winter Classic periods-- I do love my hockey) relocating the power supply and battery for my phono stage away from the audio portion of the stage.  I have a Clearaudio Basic+ with the battery option, 3 different units.  I was picking up all kinds of nasty hum off my turntable.
> 
> I moved the power cord into another outlet and seem to have eliminated the source of the hum.  Want to do a little star grounding off both the RCA port and the tone arm stem.


 

 No need to worry, the EML Mesh in my system do not sound anywhere near as good as the Elrog's. Should sound spectacular with vinyl. Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Hi Simon,
  
 Thanks....np.....will be interesting to hear Matt's impressions.


----------



## Angelbelow

isquirrel said:


> No need to worry, the EML Mesh in my system do not sound anywhere near as good as the Elrog's. Should sound spectacular with vinyl. Look forward to your impressions.


 
  
 Still don't have a 300b upgrade picked out... the Elrog is mighty tempting now.


----------



## reeltime

When I bought mine I got an email saying they'll be shipped next week, most likely.  Not too bad on the turn around.


----------



## Krutsch

reeltime said:


> When I bought mine I got an email saying they'll be shipped next week, most likely.  Not too bad on the turn around.


 

 May I ask from where you ordered the Elrogs?


----------



## reeltime

krutsch said:


> May I ask from where you ordered the Elrogs?




http://www.trueaudiophile.com/


----------



## Fririce0003

stax-i-nox said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Have you heard the WA5, comparing it to your 234?  I've got the first WA5 built for the market, and love it!  Now, after reading all these great posts about the Elrog 300B, would like to buy a pair....was almost going to go with a pair of  the Sophia Royal Princess matched 300b's, but am going to hold off for now, even though it will probably be a long time before the Elrog is available.
> 
> ...




 Hope I can help, it's been a while since I've heard either amp though, being in Japan.
 My WA5 was maxed with Syl Bad Boys, KR 300B Balloons and Full Music 274b/n/+ tubes. I mainly used it with my abyss from the K1000 output but did spend a few months driving some Zu Audio Soul Supreme Speakers from it. I've only used the 234 with the abyss, so I can't comment on its usage with speakers just yet.
 Compared to the 234, with stock tubes, the main differences are an increase in soundstage, all round; width depth and height. There's also an increase in dynamics, this helps lower the noise floor and background noise of the amp, makes it more transparent and revealing of other parts of the chain and more responsive to tube rolling. There is one set back though, if you have a sibilant track the amp won't cover it up, you'll hear the sibilance in full force. Tracks that were slightly sibilant on the 5 are noticeably sibilant on he 234.
 Rolling in the same complement of tubes I had in the 5 had the same improvements that I got from rolling them into the 5 from stock, just with slightly more extension and control. It's easier to distinguish the differences between the tubes and cables used with the amp due to how transparent it is. Any coloration you get is down to the tubes you use. Rolling in the new tubes brought out more warmth and eased off the sibilance, whilst still keeping the lovely dynamics and detail, I fact stepping up on both fronts. 
 The 234 is a detailed, dynamic and quick amp, but it doesn't compromise on the musicality, especially with the right tubes.
 Please take this with a grain of salt though as it's been more than a month since I've listened to either amp. I'd be happy to do another write up when I get back home, pick up my 234 and have spent some time with it though. I'll also try it out with speakers, though the only ones I have on hand are some Vienna Acoustic Klimt the Kiss speakers which from memory are only 88db sensitivity and may not be the best pairing with the 8W from the 234.
 Hope that helped.

Cheers
-Matt


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Hope I can help, it's been a while since I've heard either amp though, being in Japan.
> My WA5 was maxed with Syl Bad Boys, KR 300B Balloons and Full Music 274b/n/+ tubes. I mainly used it with my abyss from the K1000 output but did spend a few months driving some Zu Audio Soul Supreme Speakers from it. I've only used the 234 with the abyss, so I can't comment on its usage with speakers just yet.
> Compared to the 234, with stock tubes, the main differences are an increase in soundstage, all round; width depth and height. There's also an increase in dynamics, this helps lower the noise floor and background noise of the amp, makes it more transparent and revealing of other parts of the chain and more responsive to tube rolling. There is one set back though, if you have a sibilant track the amp won't cover it up, you'll hear the sibilance in full force. Tracks that were slightly sibilant on the 5 are noticeably sibilant on he 234.
> Rolling in the same complement of tubes I had in the 5 had the same improvements that I got from rolling them into the 5 from stock, just with slightly more extension and control. It's easier to distinguish the differences between the tubes and cables used with the amp due to how transparent it is. Any coloration you get is down to the tubes you use. Rolling in the new tubes brought out more warmth and eased off the sibilance, whilst still keeping the lovely dynamics and detail, I fact stepping up on both fronts.
> ...




The sibilance Matt makes mention of I found went away after burn in to be replaced with a lush extended top end.

I have never found it sibilant since even on bright tracks.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Hi Matt,
  
 Thanks for your post.  Will have to, some day, try to audition the 234.   Thanks again.


----------



## madmax405

Hi guys, I was sent here from the HD650 thread, where I am trying to decide between purchasing a WA7+WA7TP or a Schitt stack (Valhalla2 or Lyr2 and Uber BiFrost). In doing research and asking around, I've heard from a lot of people using the Schitt stacks, but I've hardly heard from anyone with the WA7.
  
 Unfortunately, I'm not able to hear either before I buy, or I'd happily go try them myself. They would be for driving HD650s. At this point I'm not too worried about other the possibility of other headphones. It's a big price jump from Schitt to Woo ($900 to $1,500) but I don't mind paying the extra if it is functionally worth the extra money.


----------



## Stereolab42

madmax405 said:


> Hi guys, I was sent here from the HD650 thread, where I am trying to decide between purchasing a WA7+WA7TP or a Schitt stack (Valhalla2 or Lyr2 and Uber BiFrost). In doing research and asking around, I've heard from a lot of people using the Schitt stacks, but I've hardly heard from anyone with the WA7.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm not able to hear either before I buy, or I'd happily go try them myself. They would be for driving HD650s. At this point I'm not too worried about other the possibility of other headphones. It's a big price jump from Schitt to Woo ($900 to $1,500) but I don't mind paying the extra if it is functionally worth the extra money.


 
  
 I own a Lyr 2 as a backup amp and it's certainly a very good amp... endless power with no noise issues. Rolling tubes is a pain though because of clearance, although it's a requirement to get the most out of it. However, it is still beaten in SQ by the WA6-SE, which it should be for twice the price. I don't have a WA7 but probably the same will hold, since I've owned three Woo amps and they all deliver as to their price.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> However, it is still beaten in SQ by the WA6-SE, which it should be for twice the price.


 
 Or the WA6 IMO.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Or the WA6 IMO.


 
  
 WA6 pairs very well with HD600/HD650. WA6SE has a lot more power, but I don't know if it offers much more in terms of SQ.
  
 WA6 can take 6SN7s with a pin adapter - I don't think the WA6SE can do that without a very special adapter (no longer made?).


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> WA6 pairs very well with HD600/HD650. WA6SE has a lot more power, but I don't know if it offers much more in terms of SQ.
> 
> WA6 can take 6SN7s with a pin adapter - I don't think the WA6SE can do that without a very special adapter (no longer made?).


 
 IMO, the WA6 sounded better for me with the 6SN7 tubes.
 I couldn't find a tube combo for the 6-SE that sounded even close.
 Correct, the 6-SE doesn't accept 6SN7 tubes, and even with the *special* adapter (no longer made by Glenn) Woo recommended not to use them in the 6-SE any way.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The 6se is a fine amp and there is a distinct difference to the basic 6 which is consumate with their price difference. The only real problem with the 6se is the finite supply of tubes and the need for a good rectifier, if you have them then it is a brilliant choice however getting the right tubes now is much more difficult nowdays. In the UK it is even more difficult as the likes of the 6FD7s etc were basically US only tubes. The UK would have used the lovely ECL83s...a very different type of tube and a new story. The 6se remains a great amp however for the price.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

The WA3 is also a good amp with a good set of upgraded tubes with the HD650 & 600 if funds are limited to not being in a position to buy the WA6 or WA6 SE.  
  
 A good source is important to get the best out of the above amps and upgraded tubes.    
  
 If money wasn't a limiting factor and you had a very good balanced source the WA22 sounds sublime with the HD650's balanced. 
  
 A good after market cable headphone with multiple amp connection possibilities  is also a worthwhile upgrade if funds allow.   As the HD600 & 650 can be a bit veiled for some a silver cable would be more preferable than just pure copper i.e. a Moon Audio Silver Dragon or similar !


----------



## bbophead

bonesy jonesy said:


> The WA3 is also a good amp with a good set of upgraded tubes with the HD650 & 600 if funds are limited to not being in a position to buy the WA6 or WA6 SE.
> 
> A good source is important to get the best out of the above amps and upgraded tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Agree.  If I had high impedance cans, I would select the WA3 rather than the 6, although the 6 is more versatile regarding impedances.


----------



## madmax405

Just finished checking out with wa7+wa7tp+upgraded tubes. Mike said he should be able to get it out by Monday, and I live right outside NYC so I'll have it before I know it.
 So soon, in fact, that it might get here before my HD650s, which I did not anticipate in the least bit.
 Music has always been my passion, and I hope my first journey into the world of hi-fi is an enjoyable one.


----------



## reeltime

bonesy jonesy said:


> The WA3 is also a good amp with a good set of upgraded tubes with the HD650 & 600 if funds are limited to not being in a position to buy the WA6 or WA6 SE.


 
  
 The HD650 with the WA6 was a magic combination with upgraded tubes.  Almost an end game setup, really.  I think of the massive amount of money I've dumped into the HD800 / WA5LE pursuing another slight improvement, it's kinda ridiculous.  But that's what we do.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> The HD650 with the WA6 was a magic combination with upgraded tubes.  Almost an end game setup, really.  I think of the massive amount of money I've dumped into the HD800 / WA5LE pursuing another slight improvement, it's kinda ridiculous.  But that's what we do.


 
  
 I really, really like my WA6 - my first tube amp and I adore the thing, but to my ears the difference between it and the WA5 is not "slight". YMMV.
  
 The WA5 (but not the WA5LE) can do something else that is important to me over the WA6 - drive my HE6 headphones very, very well. There are precious few headphone amps that can do that.


----------



## Porteroso

reeltime said:


> bonesy jonesy said:
> 
> 
> > The WA3 is also a good amp with a good set of upgraded tubes with the HD650 & 600 if funds are limited to not being in a position to buy the WA6 or WA6 SE.
> ...


 
 Good to hear. I am deciding what to get next for my WA6, and it's between the HE-400i, and the HD650, and yours is the second comment I've seen that says the 650 is just mindblowing with the WA6. Might have to just get it soon, can't have unsubstantiated rumours floating around in my head now, can I?


----------



## joseph69

reeltime said:


> The HD650 with the WA6 was a magic combination with upgraded tubes.  Almost an end game setup, really.  I think of the massive amount of money I've dumped into the HD800 / WA5LE pursuing another slight improvement, it's kinda ridiculous.  But that's what we do.


 
I also agree that the RS1i (in my case) and the WA6 can be an end gamer.
 [size=x-small]​I have to agree that this could very well be an end gamer, but like you said[/size]…[size=x-small]that what we do![/size]


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> I really, really like my WA6 - my first tube amp and I adore the thing, but to my ears the difference between it and the WA5 is not "slight". YMMV.
> 
> The WA5 (but not the WA5LE) can do something else that is important to me over the WA6 - drive my HE6 headphones very, very well. There are precious few headphone amps that can do that.


 

 I hear ya.  And I confess I'm guilty of upgrade-itis.  I just dropped another $1100 on new 300B tubes.  But when I think back, the sound out of just the WA6 with a metal base GZ34-- it was a setup with formidable sound.  Is my HD800 and WA5LE better?  Heck yes.  But how MUCH better?  That's what I'm driving at.  
  
 The WA6 and HD650 is a great combination.


----------



## bbophead

tonynewman said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sure hope not given the price diff.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> ...But how MUCH better?  That's what I'm driving at.


 
  
 Yep - we are audiophile nutters chasing that "last 5%" - which is a moving target as bigger and better (and usually more expensive) gear gets released 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For me the WA5 and Taurus really are my endgame amps for tubes and solid state. I can drool over the WA234 and GSX-Mk2 etc, but I am very happy with what I have. Only significant upgrade in my mind is the Elrog tubes (300Bs for WA5 and 845s for the big rig) - but it will be quite awhile before I can lay out that sort of cash.
  
 I would rate the difference between the WA6 and WA5, with equivalent quality tubes, as 'significant'. That's very subjective and a little bit meaningless, of course. None of that takes away from the WA6 - excellent little amp.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> Yep - we are audiophile nutters chasing that "last 5%" - which is a moving target as bigger and better (and usually more expensive) gear gets released
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I just bit the bullet on the Elrog.  Couldn't resist.  I didn't have the need for the upgrades on the WA5.  My desktop speakers are balanced.
  
 I still want the GSX MkII2 at some point.  Blown away when paired with the HD800.  But I love the tube sound.  Probably more when the Elrog (which my Mac keeps autocorrecting to "Elroy"!) arrives.  I don't own a solid state headphone amp any longer.  I got rid of my Burson a few years back.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> Yeah I just bit the bullet on the Elrog.  Couldn't resist.  I didn't have the need for the upgrades on the WA5.  My desktop speakers are balanced.
> 
> I still want the GSX MkII2 at some point.  Blown away when paired with the HD800.  But I love the tube sound.  Probably more when the Elrog (which my Mac keeps autocorrecting to "Elroy"!) arrives.  I don't own a solid state headphone amp any longer.  I got rid of my Burson a few years back.


 
  
 Congrats on the Elrogs - I hear nothing but stunningly good reports on them.
  
 Have you modded the HD800s? After modding I found they sounded fantastic from the Taurus, better than from the WA5.


----------



## sictransit

I bought the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies, but I think it was a big mistake.  I can't plug either end of the DC umbilical power cord into their respective sockets.  I don't know if a pin got slightly bent or something, or how in the world I'd fix that, but both sides are impossible to plug in.  Is there a comparable piece of hardware that doesn't use such a user-unfriendly connector?


----------



## yonexer

Hi,
  
 Just received my WA5-LE before the new year!
  
 However, I hear a quite noticeable background noise from the high impedance port on both sides.  The noise does not go away even without a source input.  I think it is more like white noise, rather than hum.  The noise is not trivial even at zero volume, and it gets larger as I turn up the volume.

 The low impedance is much better.  Still a bit noise.  The noise from the low impedance at the highest volume is lower than that from the high impedance at the zero volume.
  
 Here is what I tried:
  
 I swapped all tubes, left to right, and right to left.  Did not help.

 I also tried to tune the noise tuner under the amp arm.  Some hum showed up however, while the white noise persisted.

 I tried the amp at various places inside my home, all the same.

 Tried different headphone, hd800 and hd600, both are the same as well.
  
 I swapped several power cable, including a fake power cord without ground.  Did not help.
  
 Following this post, http://www.head-fi.org/t/435096/question-about-hum-noise-on-woo-wa5#post_5856884, I removed the input tubes (6SN7), and heard about 10 seconds.  Initially, there is a hum.  After 4 seconds, it become quite.
  

 I have so far burned it in for around 8 hours.  The issue is not getting any better.  Does anyone here experience something similar?  Is there anything I can do to nail down the issue?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Yep - we are audiophile nutters chasing that "last 5%" - which is a moving target as bigger and better (and usually more expensive) gear gets released
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just took the plunge for a matched pair of Elrog 300B myself:  my WA5 and HE-6 are clammering for them.
  
Now is the time to enjoy our headphones and associated gears and that thrilling pursuit of the "last 5%." If history of High-End Audio is any clue, this may be the beginning of the end for "affordable" high-end gears and we may never see these days again. I still cling to the hope that this will not come to pass.
  
 But $2,500 IEM, $5,000 headphones and $10,000 amps are already making their appearance on the scene. If this follows the unfortunate path of High-End Audio in the 90s, most of us in this forum will not be able to afford the best headphone gears in 10 years.  I hope that the Internet has changed the market sufficiently that good, dedicated small companies can continue to thrive and produce outstanding products that we can afford and enjoy for a long time to come.
  
 The hard lesson not yet learned is that improvement at all cost, too far beyond the point of diminishing return, is not only bad engineering, but also bad business.
  
 So, back at the ranch:  $1,000 for a pair of tubes, why the heck not! The best tubes may cost $10,000 in a few years, so let's get them now while we still can


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Hey would you be able to take a pic of the Elrog 300b and EML Mesh 300b side by side so I can get an idea of the size difference?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paddy


 

 There you go, sorry it took a while, now I am burning in the EML's 4 hours at time.....


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

bbophead said:


> Agree.  If I had high impedance cans, I would select the WA3 rather than the 6, although the 6 is more versatile regarding impedances.


 

 ++ A  Yes and with the WA6 SE's versatility can drive Audeze LCD2's & 3's very well where the WA3 cannot.   For good performance vs value for money the WA3 is a great amp very closely followed by the the WA6.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

madmax405 said:


> Just finished checking out with wa7+wa7tp+upgraded tubes. Mike said he should be able to get it out by Monday, and I live right outside NYC so I'll have it before I know it.
> So soon, in fact, that it might get here before my HD650s, which I did not anticipate in the least bit.
> *Music has always been my passion, and I hope my first journey into the world of hi-fi is an enjoyable one.*


 
  
 Welcome madmax405 to the world of headphone hifi.   Hope it gives you many hours of pleasure. 
  
 Just be careful as this hobby can be highly addictive and can hit your wallet hard as you journey through the path to try and find audio nirvana. !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

isquirrel said:


> There you go, sorry it took a while, now I am burning in the EML's 4 hours at time.....


 

 Very nice indeed.    
 Im just amazed at the engineering that goes into these gems !    
 My wife has diamonds I have tubes and headphones


----------



## Krutsch

porteroso said:


> Good to hear. I am deciding what to get next for my WA6, and it's between the HE-400i, and the HD650, and yours is the second comment I've seen that says the 650 is just mindblowing with the WA6. Might have to just get it soon, can't have unsubstantiated rumours floating around in my head now, can I?


 

 Have to chime in here... I've heard the WA6 with my HD-650s and I have to second the @Bonesy Jonesy comment on the WA3, which is why I went that direction with my rig.
  
 If you settle on the HD-650s, seriously consider the WA3 (and upgraded tubes, of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

porteroso said:


> Good to hear. I am deciding what to get next for my WA6, and it's* between the HE-400i, and the HD650*, and yours is the second comment I've seen that says the 650 is just mindblowing with the WA6. Might have to just get it soon, can't have unsubstantiated rumours floating around in my head now, can I?


 
  
 I have the HD600 headphones when one of the drivers blew.    So I replaced them with two HD650 drivers which were a lot cheaper than the HD600's.     The HD600 drivers were very nice but I preferred the warmer sound of the HD650's for pop and rock and the 600's for classical & jazz.   Now I have replaced the blown HD600 driver so have the best of both worlds for all genres.


----------



## Angelbelow

madmax405 said:


> Just finished checking out with wa7+wa7tp+upgraded tubes. Mike said he should be able to get it out by Monday, and I live right outside NYC so I'll have it before I know it.
> So soon, in fact, that it might get here before my HD650s, which I did not anticipate in the least bit.
> *Music has always been my passion, and I hope my first journey into the world of hi-fi is an enjoyable one.*


 
  
 I know what you mean. Music was a huge passion for me but I didn't realize it until I graduated from college. For example, I was always involved in marching band/concert band in high school but I thought I hated it. Then, I would be constantly haunted by the music we played. Even a few years into college I would have the band stuff stuck in my head. I also spent a large amount of my free time listening to music. Not only that, I would spend countless hours reorganizing my music by renaming tracks, filling in tags, looking up composers etc. I went from rock/alternative/punk in high school to various genres of heavy metal in college. One day, a close friend introduced me to the Audio Technica M50s and the Asus Essence STX sound card.. For some reason, it never occurred to me that music could sound better than apple ear buds and cheap computer speakers. Safe to say that it has been a wonderful journey so far!


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> There you go, sorry it took a while, now I am burning in the EML's 4 hours at time.....


 
 thanks for posting


----------



## Krutsch

Onward to the Telefunken E188CC with the w/ the Tung-Sol 7236
  


 On order: Siemens E88CC and Tung-Sol 5998


----------



## bbophead

krutsch said:


> Onward to the Telefunken E188CC with the w/ the Tung-Sol 7236
> 
> 
> 
> On order: Siemens E88CC and Tung-Sol 5998


 

 Love that shot!  Beauty.


----------



## Krutsch

bbophead said:


> Love that shot!  Beauty.


 

 Thanks!  OT, but the camera on my Samsung Note 4 is beyond belief; I really haven't been successful in taking a bad pic.


----------



## Porteroso

krutsch said:


> Have to chime in here... I've heard the WA6 with my HD-650s and I have to second the @Bonesy Jonesy comment on the WA3, which is why I went that direction with my rig.
> If you settle on the HD-650s, seriously consider the WA3 (and upgraded tubes, of course
> 
> 
> ...


 
 WA6 is just so much more versatile, both in terms of tube rolling, and impendance. If I were to get a WA3, it would only be after having both the WA6 and WA3 in front of me, and a fair bit of a/b listening. I will admit, I would be very interested in doing that, because people with the HD650 and the WA3, and there are quite a few, say it's extremely good. I'll try to get to the next Nashville meet, and maybe someone can bring a WA3 to that, I will bring my WA6, and we will decide once and for all, the true ruler of the HD650!


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

krutsch said:


> Onward to the Telefunken E188CC with the w/ the Tung-Sol 7236
> 
> 
> 
> On order: Siemens E88CC and Tung-Sol 5998


 

 Great photo Krutsch  A+


----------



## fhuang

reeltime said:


> Yeah I just bit the bullet on the Elrog.  Couldn't resist.  I didn't have the need for the upgrades on the WA5.  My desktop speakers are balanced.
> 
> I still want the GSX MkII2 at some point.  Blown away when paired with the HD800.  But I love the tube sound.  Probably more when the Elrog (which my Mac keeps autocorrecting to "Elroy"!) arrives.  I don't own a solid state headphone amp any longer.  I got rid of my Burson a few years back.


 
  
 what about a tube source with gsx?  problem solved.  you get some tube sound that way


----------



## Faithless

All my love for WA6-SE.
Really a great amp.
I use EML 5U4G and 6DR7 tubes.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Just saw this......Here is a new video, in German,  of the ELROG factory!I  Interesting to actually see where these tubes are made etc, inc an interview with the inventor,  Dr. Schaffernicht...very interesting....notice at the end, the playback equip. 
  
 If anyone speaks German, can they give an encapsulated translation of what was said etc,  and post it here?   Enjoy!
  
 http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/nordmagazin/Der-Roehren-Tueftler-mit-Kunden-in-aller-Welt,nordmagazin27058.html


----------



## Krutsch

faithless said:


> All my love for WA6-SE.
> Really a great amp.
> I use EML 5U4G and 6DR7 tubes.


 
  
 Really nice looking rig... what are the orange rings around the driver tubes?


----------



## earthpeople

Looks like some tube coolers/heatsinks.


----------



## reeltime

Those are dampers to stop the tubes from picking up resonant frequencies.


----------



## Krutsch

earthpeople said:


> Looks like some tube coolers/heatsinks.


 
  
  


reeltime said:


> Those are dampers to stop the tubes from picking up resonant frequencies.


 

 Thanks... got that. I was hoping for links to a specific product. Does anyone know who makes those? They are cool looking (especially with the black Woo gear).


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> Onward to the Telefunken E188CC with the w/ the Tung-Sol 7236
> 
> On order: Siemens E88CC and Tung-Sol 5998


 
  
 Holy Buckets... the Teleys live up to their reputation.
  
 I am listening to the same playlist as previous evenings (Dire Straits, Ray LaMontagne, Roberta Flack, Pink Floyd, et al.) and it's just crazy good. The Amperex Bugle Boys sounded good, but these are on another level with guitar rock (dead quiet and very liquid sounding with fantastic separation). And the cymbals... wow.
  
 I can't wait to pair these with the TS 5998, although I'm not sure I need anything other than what I am hearing right now. Maybe by tomorrow night I will be bored with this sound... kidding ...


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Holy Buckets... the Teleys live up to their reputation.
> 
> I am listening to the same playlist as previous evenings (Dire Straits, Ray LaMontagne, Roberta Flack, Pink Floyd, et al.) and it's just crazy good. The Amperex Bugle Boys sounded good, but these are on another level with guitar rock (dead quiet and very liquid sounding with fantastic separation). And the cymbals... wow.
> 
> I can't wait to pair these with the TS 5998, although I'm not sure I need anything other than what I am hearing right now. Maybe by tomorrow night I will be bored with this sound... kidding ...


 

 Great stuff, the Teleys are usually fantastic valves and your into Ray, even better, worth trying Casting Nets - Distance, Light & Sky


----------



## daverich4

krutsch said:


> Onward to the Telefunken E188CC with the w/ the Tung-Sol 7236
> 
> 
> 
> On order: Siemens E88CC and Tung-Sol 5998


 

 I think you might like the 5998's. In my WA22, compared to the 7236's I got noticeably more power and deeper, fuller bass out of the TS5998's.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Great stuff, the Teleys are usually fantastic valves and your into Ray, even better, worth trying Casting Nets - Distance, Light & Sky


 

 Wow... is that a great album!  Downloaded from Amazon, last night (I can't find the CD for purchase on-line from the US).
  
 Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Krutsch

daverich4 said:


> *I think you might like the 5998*'s. In my WA22, compared to the 7236's I got noticeably more power and deeper, fuller bass out of the TS5998's.


 

 It's on its way via eBay... looking forward to the comparison. I also ordered some additional driver tubes (Siemens E88CC NOS).
  
 At some point, I should take some notes and post my aggregate findings for others. I'm guessing there is a de facto tube rolling thread on Head-Fi; I need to look around and find the right thread.


----------



## Silent One

joseph69 said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > WA6 pairs very well with HD600/HD650. WA6SE has a lot more power, but I don't know if it offers much more in terms of SQ.
> ...


 
 "Happy 2015" to all the Woozies out there!
  
 As a former _WooAudio Black WA 6 Special Edition _owner running 6SN7 series tubes, a couple of things:
  
 1. MOT 2359glenn has been working with tubes & circuit designs all his life. Based on his background experience, I trusted him to use the adapter in my Woo over the recommendation from Jack, whom I consider a good vendor, acquaintance and friend of the audio community. 
  
 Yup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, slapped that adapter right on in there some 3 months after I got the amp. To be clear, I asked Jack Wu to clarify the matter for me but he elected to only repeat the recommendation never explaining why with any clarity. 
  
 In a nod to the late EPSN Anchor Stuart Scott (who lost his battle to Cancer this morning), my amp with 6SN7 series tubes ran as _"Cool as the other side of the pillow." _
  
_2. _My best tube complement for the Woo:
 - TS-BGRPs VT-231s (1942-44)
 - USAF 596 rectifier (1957)
  
 Special note: may yet still bring home another Woo but this might take a while. Also, really diggin' the chat on the Elrog & Taks! Don't own a 300B amp yet - my cinema power output tubes are the excellent Seimens F2a. Shoot, I might have to get the Elrogs or Taks and worry about the amp later!


----------



## joseph69

silent one said:


> "Happy 2015" to all the Woozies out there!
> 
> As a former _WooAudio Black WA 6 Special Edition _owner running 6SN7 series tubes, a couple of things:
> 
> ...


 
 You just reminded me about our conversation when I was trying to find some 6SN7 adapters for my 6-SE…I totally forgot! If you recall, I did ask Glenn at the time knowing he made yours, if he could make adapters for me, but he didn't have the time being so backed up with making amplifiers. And I do remember you saying that the 6-SE was fine with the adapters even though Jack said not too use them.


----------



## Silent One

Jus a friendly reminder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to the thread is all


----------



## Fririce0003

Picked up the Takatsuki's today, 3 pairs of 300b's and 3 pairs of 274b's, 12 tubes in all...
 Had to ditch the 274b boxes though, each tube packed individually and taking up the same space as the 300b pairs in their wooden box. 
 Seem very well built though, thick glass and sturdy bases. Now to get back to aus and try them out. I'd post pics, but the hotel Internet is being a bitch!


----------



## Stereolab42

fririce0003 said:


> Picked up the Takatsuki's today, 3 pairs of 300b's and 3 pairs of 274b's, 12 tubes in all...
> Had to ditch the 274b boxes though, each tube packed individually and taking up the same space as the 300b pairs in their wooden box.
> Seem very well built though, thick glass and sturdy bases. Now to get back to aus and try them out. I'd post pics, but the hotel Internet is being a bitch!


 
  
  
 Umm... wow! Why so many?


----------



## Fririce0003

stereolab42 said:


> Umm... wow! Why so many?




Got a set of each for me, a set if each for Simon and then a spare set 
 Was a struggle trying to pack them all between all the other purchases I've done over here... I think I'll have to book in a couple extra kg in baggage for the flight home.


----------



## Silent One

Taks & Elrogs
  
 Can't wait for y'all to get in the kitchen...er...listening room and start cookin'!


----------



## TonyNewman

silent one said:


> Taks & Elrogs
> 
> Can't wait for y'all to get in the kitchen...er...listening room and start cookin'!


 
  
 Me too. Love me some high end tube voyeurism...


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> Me too. Love me some high end tube voyeurism...


 
 You & me - our turn shall come. _Eventually._


----------



## Clayton SF

Good morning! Happy Monday!
 My WA22, the sunbather )


----------



## bbophead

A mighty purdy piece.


----------



## TonyNewman

bbophead said:


> A mighty purdy piece.


 
  
 Just had a "Deliverance" flashback. "_You got a purdy mouth, boy_.... "


----------



## Badas

clayton sf said:


> Good morning! Happy Monday!
> My WA22, the sunbather )




Looking fantastic. I can't make out the rectifier you are using? Everything else I can identify.

Wouldn't your tubes run a lot hotter sitting in the sun?
My gear is in a air conditioned room and I keep them cool.


----------



## Krutsch

clayton sf said:


> Good morning! Happy Monday!
> My WA22, the sunbather )


 
  
 Nice pics and sweet looking amp and collection of tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> Looking fantastic. I can't make out the rectifier you are using? Everything else I can identify.
> 
> Wouldn't your tubes run a lot hotter sitting in the sun?
> My gear is in a air conditioned room and I keep them cool.


 
  
 The sun is on the amp for barely an hour and the temperature indoors is about 65 degrees. This is San Francisco.
  
 The rectifier is a _*Mullard CV378 / GZ37*_. A very wonderful rectifier. It is warm and it tempers the very analytical Chatham 2399 power tubes that Ultra gave me in 2013. Thanks Ultra!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

My all time favourite rectifier.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Got a set of each for me, a set if each for Simon and then a spare set
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You're a good lad and I like you. Just hurry up and bring those lovely Taks back here in one piece 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They will be here next Monday along with Matt for an overnight marathon tube shoot out which we will post for you're enjoyment:
  
 Original WE 1930 grey plates
 SERP's
 KR 300 Balloon's
 EML Mesh Plates
 Elrog's
 Takatsukis 274B's and 300B's
 Mullard Metal Base GZ 34's
 Psvane 274B replica's
 Brimar 5U4GY rectifiers
 Full Music 274B's
 Sophia Mesh 274B's
  
 And lots of 6SN7's
  
 Photos of the Takatsukis goodness


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> You're a good lad and I like you. Just hurry up and bring those lovely Taks back here in one piece
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wonderful tube porn - thank you.
  
 I am off to the bathroom now. _I might be some time... _


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> You're a good lad and I like you. Just hurry up and bring those lovely Taks back here in one piece
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How are the EML's sounding after some burn in?


----------



## isquirrel

In other news managed to swap the top plates over yesterday without setting fire to anything (so far)
  
 Also received the ex WW2 Luftwaffe 6SN7's apparently so the story goes these things were stretchered out of a crashed Messerschmitt 109, considering the PTSD these things must have and the horror of being owned by an Englishman,  they actually work and sound really bloody good. Much to my amazement they just might be better than the TS RP 1940 VT231's
  
 Interesting ceramic mica


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> How are the EML's sounding after some burn in?


 

 In a word, not what I was hoping for (so far)  they have improved with diet burn in procedure, but they sound like HiFi the Elrog's and the WE's sound like music. Gun to head I would choose the Elroy's over the WE's. Just so good.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> In other news managed to swap the top plates over yesterday without setting fire to anything (so far)
> 
> Also received the ex WW2 Luftwaffe 6SN7's apparently so the story goes these things were stretchered out of a crashed Messerschmitt 109, considering the PTSD these things must have and the horror of being owned by an Englishman,  they actually work and sound really bloody good. Much to my amazement they just might be better than the TS RP 1940 VT231's
> 
> ...


Beautiful looking tubes sir. Did you get the nics out of your 234's?


----------



## isquirrel

Err yes and no. Will also be putting some Hi-Fi tuning fuses into the amps tomorrow. I couldn't get the top plates to fit properly, now I know why, compared old with new and they are missing the required cut out's so off to the machine shop today.
  
 Old tops are on the left. Course any normal person would have checked that before putting the amps back together and wondering why they looked odd.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There is NO WAY a pair of Abyss did that much damage to the top plates the things are 5mm thick, just to be sure I belted the old ones with a hammer and couldn't make a dent so I have no idea what happened to them. If it was the Abyss = even more reason to be scared of them


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Wonderful tube porn - thank you.
> 
> I am off to the bathroom now. _I might be some time... _


 

 Do you need to borrow Matt's gloves ?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Do you need to borrow Matt's gloves ?


 
  
 I prefer the dimpled gardening variety, but I like how your mind works....


----------



## isquirrel

Right I am off to the engineering workshops to get these top plates machined, I forgot how much agony high end audio can be, reminds of the Buddhist saying 'the more you have, the more you have'


----------



## Nic Rhodes

wow, the german 6SN7GT, always wanted to try these, love the ceramic bits  very Bendix.


----------



## Clayton SF

The sun is setting and my room is getting darker.
 Flame on WA22!


----------



## bbophead

Oh, YEAH!


----------



## Stereolab42

nic rhodes said:


> wow, the german 6SN7GT, always wanted to try these, love the ceramic bits  very Bendix.


 
  
 They don't have swastikas on them, do they?


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> nic rhodes said:
> 
> 
> > wow, the german 6SN7GT, always wanted to try these, love the ceramic bits  very Bendix.
> ...


----------



## bbophead

Ach, ********, Achtung, MF.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> In other news managed to swap the top plates over yesterday without setting fire to anything (so far)
> 
> *Also received the ex WW2 Luftwaffe 6SN7's apparently so the story goes these things were stretchered out of a crashed Messerschmitt 109*, considering the PTSD these things must have and the horror of being owned by an Englishman,  they actually work and sound really bloody good. Much to my amazement they just might be better than the TS RP 1940 VT231's
> 
> Interesting ceramic mica


 
  
 Are you Schiit'ing me? These came out of a crashed BF-109 radio set, and they still work? That's my vote for Head-Fi post of the year.


----------



## Krutsch

Obviously, I can't compete with @isquirrel 's tube porn, but today I received my Tung Sol 5998 (NOS) and the Siemens E88CC (NOS) driver tubes. I've left the Telefunken E188CCs in-place, because they sound so ridiculously awesome - I'm, not touching those puppies...
  
 Nice glow from the WA3 and the 5998:
  

  
 Burn in will commence with "The Essential Bobby Womack" - The Last Great Soul Man and continue with "Casting Nets" by Distance, Light & Sky.


----------



## Krutsch

daverich4 said:


> I think you might like the 5998's. In my WA22, compared to the 7236's I got noticeably more power and deeper, fuller bass out of the TS5998's.


 

 Wow... I am still acclimating to the 5998, but initial impressions are a lot of punch, but the mids are harsher than the previous TS 7236, especially with vocals. Yes, I know, these need time to burn in. But the lower mids and upper bass sounded incredible when I first plugged these in with Bobby Womack's California Dreamin.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Are you Schiit'ing me? These came out of a crashed BF-109 radio set, and they still work? That's my vote for Head-Fi post of the year.




No Shcit, when I bought them I did some research as I have never seen or heard of German made QB65's, the guy who sold them told me the story, they also have ceramic micas, also unheard of in 6SN7's. They test up well, 2850 where the minimum is 1450. They have many of the sonic attributes of the TS RP VT231's and are sounding excellent, better with use. Best 6SN7's in my collection. 

They suit the Elrog's particularly well. Somehow I don't think I'll be able to find a spare set !


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> No Shcit, when I bought them I did some research as I have never seen or heard of German made QB65's, the guy who sold them told me the story, they also have ceramic micas, also unheard of in 6SN7's. They test up well, 2850 where the minimum is 1450. They have many of the sonic attributes of the TS RP VT231's and are sounding excellent, better with use. Best 6SN7's in my collection.
> 
> They suit the Elrog's particularly well. Somehow I don't think I'll be able to find a spare set !


 

 Man... I don't know what to say, other than: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE POST PICS ...


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Man... I don't know what to say, other than: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE POST PICS ...


----------



## isquirrel

lol, sorry couldn't resist


----------



## isquirrel

mikelap said:


>


 

 Very cool ! even have the markings


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


>


 

 Ha Ha Ha ... good one  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... now, how about the tubes?


----------



## Silent One

Tube updates:
  
 Hurry...before this cafe is overrun by the morning rush crowd!





  
 Guess I can always return tomorrow night...


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> There is something that I didn't mention in my comparison of the SERPs vs Psvane replicas, as it is a total non-issue for me, but I have read comments/reviews from other folks who have found it to be a problem. Tonal balance / tonal emphasis in the SERPs.
> 
> The replicas have a tonal emphasis exactly where you would expect a WE300B replica to have one - smack in the vocal range. This is part of what makes them slightly better for vocal centric tracks IMHO - the other part is the extra level of velvety smoothness they give to the vocals (female vocals in particular).
> 
> ...


 
  
 If there is a HeadFi Virus out there I am totaly infected with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After some sleepless nights I just ordered a WA5 from Woo Audio and I am looking forward to get my new piece of gear..
  
 And I also ordered some Tubes at the shop from Langrex (UK) The very good and cheap Brimar 5Z4G _CV1863_ and a quad 6SN7GT/B65/CV1988 VINTAGE COSSOR 1950'S NOS. After I will get the 6SN7 adaptors I would like to use it in my WA6 as well. And a I also ordered a matched quad ECC83 PHILIPS MINIWATT VINTAGE NOS for my Woo Audio GES.
  
 My challenge is now to find the right 300B for the WA5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 @ Tony: I read your very good comparison of the Psvane 300B Replica and the SERP´s. This two are on my shortlist. I am listen to a lot of singer&sogwriter music (male+female) and you wrote that this is special with the replica but you write so good about the SERP´s that I maybe prefer this 300B. Could you tell me how big the difference in special with female voices is. What is your prefered music?
  
 I have the chance to get a used matched Pair of SERP´s with about 100h on it for I think a reasonable Price (a litle bit cheaper that the Replica)
  
 I don´t want more sleepless nights 
  
 I am totaly insane I started with HeadFi in August last year....


----------



## magiccabbage

krutsch said:


> Wow...  Bobby Womack's California Dreamin.


 
 Just listened to it there - what a cover! Amazing stuff


----------



## bpcans

mikelap said:


> Spoiler


Unfreaking believable! Seventy some years later and seeing what looks to be a Swastika on the tube kinda gives me a chill.


----------



## TonyNewman

> @ Tony: I read your very good comparison of the Psvane 300B Replica and the SERP´s. This two are on my shortlist. I am listen to a lot of singer&sogwriter music (male+female) and you wrote that this is special with the replica but you write so good about the SERP´s that I maybe prefer this 300B. Could you tell me how big the difference in special with female voices is. What is your prefered music?


 
  
 90% of my listening is vocal-centric. If you have a chance to get a good deal on a pair of SERPs I would go for it - they are very fine tubes.
  
 They beat the replicas in extension and detail, and have a darker tonal presentation (which I like). The replicas are slightly better in the vocal range, but really this is hair splitting. These tubes are very similar to my ears - either will do a good job with vocal centric listening.
  
 EDIT - I don't know what the pricing and availability is in your part of the world, but if Elrog 300Bs are an option I would seriously consider those over anything else. My next (and hopefully last for a long time) 300B purchase will be Elrogs.


----------



## MIKELAP

tonynewman said:


> > @ Tony: I read your very good comparison of the Psvane 300B Replica and the SERP´s. This two are on my shortlist. I am listen to a lot of singer&sogwriter music (male+female) and you wrote that this is special with the replica but you write so good about the SERP´s that I maybe prefer this 300B. Could you tell me how big the difference in special with female voices is. What is your prefered music?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My wife shakes her head in disbelief everytime  i say  Thats it im good for a long time now. I told her i was going to start training her in vacuum tube recognition ,boy is she going to be busy when i kick the bucket .


----------



## Johnny Moondog

Clayton, we corresponded back in 2009 regarding our love for everything WA22, and I also live in San Francisco.
  
 I just received an email from Jack Woo. AudioVision is having an event on Jan 15, and some of his products will be on demo. He is looking into the possibility of having them demo the WES + SR009 and WA234 Mono. I've expressed interest in both amps, but my schedule has never synced up with Jack at previous audio events. This could finally be my opportunity!
  
 I told him that if he can only arrange one demo, at this point in time I am more interested in hearing the WA234. If you are at all interested in attending the event, why don't you give AudioVision a call or send an email, and ask for Antonio or Randy. I'm going to do the same.
  
 And if there are any other Woo Audio owners in the Bay Area with interest, please contact them as well.
  
 -Gerry


----------



## Stereolab42

bpcans said:


> Unfreaking believable! Seventy some years later and seeing what looks to be a Swastika on the tube kinda gives me a chill.


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> My wife shakes her head in disbelief everytime  i say  Thats it im good for a long time now. I told her i was going to start training her in vacuum tube recognition ,boy is she going to be busy when i kick the bucket .


 
  
 Learning to stop is the trick. I got a taste for HeadFi and bought a WA6 + HD600. Then before I can blink I ended up with a bevy of amps and headphones. WA5 is my end games (really) - no more amps for me. Only upgrade I am considering is the Elrog tubes.
  
 Doesn't stop me lusting after the WA234 - but it's "look, don't touch"


----------



## bpcans

stereolab42 said:


>


Thanks Stereolab for introducing me to a world of video games that I had no idea even existed.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

tonynewman said:


> Learning to stop is the trick. I got a taste for HeadFi and bought a WA6 + HD600. Then before I can blink I ended up with a bevy of amps and headphones. WA5 is my end games (really) - no more amps for me. Only upgrade I am considering is the Elrog tubes.
> 
> *Doesn't stop me lusting after the WA234* - but it's "look, don't touch"


 
 Have the same paradox regrading the WA234 ! 
  
 I need to find out myself how good the WA234 is to a maxxed WA5 both with tube upgrades and also connected to a Wee running Stax 009's vs the Woo WES and BHSE !  
 Problem is I reside in the UK and South of Spain so demoing the Woo beauties is near impossible and the prospect of buying the WA234 before I have heard it is daunting for the outlay !


----------



## TonyNewman

bonesy jonesy said:


> Have the same paradox regrading the WA234 !
> 
> I need to find out myself how good the WA234 is to a maxxed WA5 both with tube upgrades and also connected to a Wee running Stax 009's vs the Woo WES and BHSE !
> Problem is I reside in the UK and South of Spain so demoing the Woo beauties is near impossible and the prospect of buying the WA234 before I have heard it is daunting for the outlay !


 
  
 There have been snippets of feedback on these topics spread around the forums. I have never heard a BHSE or a WA234, so I am paraphrasing the feedback from others below - _*so take it all with a BIG, HUGE grain of salt:*_
  

WA5 / WA234 can be more musical and engaging than the BHSE + SR009 (depending on personal tastes, of course).
BHSE + SR009 is technically trumps - for detail and transparency it is king, but if you are looking for musicality and engagement a WA234 (or a WA5) might be better.
WA234 with stock tubes is on par with a WA5 with upgraded tubes. When you consider how putrid the Woo stock tubes are, this is quite a statement for the WA234.
  
 Never heard much on A/B comparison of the WA5 with and without the parts upgrade. No idea if it really makes a significant difference to SQ. Mine is stock.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Never heard much on A/B comparison of the WA5 with and without the parts upgrade. No idea if it really makes a significant difference to SQ. Mine is stock.


 
 That makes me fell better - mine is stock also


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

tonynewman said:


> There have been snippets of feedback on these topics spread around the forums. I have never heard a BHSE or a WA234, so I am paraphrasing the feedback from others below - _*so take it all with a BIG, HUGE grain of salt:*_
> 
> 
> WA5 / WA234 can be more musical and engaging than the BHSE + SR009 (depending on personal tastes, of course).
> ...


 

 Thank you TonyNewman for your post.   Much appreciated.


----------



## Krutsch

Well, it was bound to happen... I added a Sonos Connect box to my head-fi desk rig and the Wi-Fi activity is causing a lot of audible microphonics from the tubes.
  
 Probably the answer is to run an Ether-hose to the Sonos (and, I suppose, my MacBook) and that will be that. But, I've noticed that I can place an object between the Sonos and the new Tung-Sol 5998 and the artifact ceases (or dramatically reduces to almost inaudible).
  
 So, my question is this: does anyone out there place any kind of shielding around their tubes to protect against stray EMI/RFI and its negative impact on the tubes?


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> 90% of my listening is vocal-centric. If you have a chance to get a good deal on a pair of SERPs I would go for it - they are very fine tubes.
> 
> They beat the replicas in extension and detail, and have a darker tonal presentation (which I like). The replicas are slightly better in the vocal range, but really this is hair splitting. These tubes are very similar to my ears - either will do a good job with vocal centric listening.
> 
> EDIT - I don't know what the pricing and availability is in your part of the world, but if Elrog 300Bs are an option I would seriously consider those over anything else. My next (and hopefully last for a long time) 300B purchase will be Elrogs.




Thank you very much..I ordered the Sophia.

The Elrog are also on my shortlist  I am from Germany they produce it here but in my prefered shop it is out of stock...maybe I will ask the german distributor directly.

I remember a TV special about Elrog and I think they only produce 6 pair of Tubes every day..may I will look this Video again

The price in germany is 975 Euro for a matched pair


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Here is the TV special on Elrog.
  
 http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/nordmagazin/Der-Roehren-Tueftler-mit-Kunden-in-aller-Welt,nordmagazin27058.html


----------



## Moon2014

stax-i-nox said:


> Here is the TV special on Elrog.
> 
> http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/nordmagazin/Der-Roehren-Tueftler-mit-Kunden-in-aller-Welt,nordmagazin27058.html




Yes thank you I have to look/watch it again


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Well, it was bound to happen... I added a Sonos Connect box to my head-fi desk rig and the Wi-Fi activity is causing a lot of audible microphonics from the tubes.
> 
> Probably the answer is to run an Ether-hose to the Sonos (and, I suppose, my MacBook) and that will be that. But, I've noticed that I can place an object between the Sonos and the new Tung-Sol 5998 and the artifact ceases (or dramatically reduces to almost inaudible).
> 
> So, my question is this: does anyone out there place any kind of shielding around their tubes to protect against stray EMI/RFI and its negative impact on the tubes?


 

 Congrats on your 1,000th post !


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi guys I just wanted to ask on here what do ye think is a good price to sell my 2 year old WA2?? 
 The reason I'm asking is because I'm not too familiar with american prices - I can get more for it over here 
 in Europe but it might not sell as easily here.
  
 I will be selling it with TS 5998  Jan Silvania 7308  RFT EZ80 - used but id say the tubes still have over 4000 hours left on them
  
 I also have a pair of RCA 6as7gs and Svetlana 6as7g unused and all the stock tubes 
  
  
 Do you think 950 dollars is a fair enough price for the amp and all the tubes? 
  
  
 Thanks Paddy 
  
  
 P.S I can remove this post if it bothers anyone,


----------



## billerb1

magiccabbage said:


> Hi guys I just wanted to ask on here what do ye think is a good price to sell my 2 year old WA2??
> 
> 
> The reason I'm asking is because I'm not too familiar with american prices - I can get more for it over here
> ...



 


Considering the current prices for 5998's I think that is a very good price if the WA2 is in great condition.


----------



## magiccabbage

billerb1 said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys I just wanted to ask on here what do ye think is a good price to sell my 2 year old WA2??
> ...


 
 It is in great condition. I will put it up in the for sale section for that price so. Thanks for replying


----------



## MIKELAP

magiccabbage said:


> Hi guys I just wanted to ask on here what do ye think is a good price to sell my 2 year old WA2??
> The reason I'm asking is because I'm not too familiar with american prices - I can get more for it over here
> in Europe but it might not sell as easily here.
> 
> ...


 
 i guess your in the general price range I paid $1000.00 last year for my 2 year old WA2 with equivalent tubes


----------



## magiccabbage

mikelap said:


> i guess your in the general price range I paid $1000.00 last year for my 2 year old WA2 with equivalent tubes


 
 good stuff - you want another one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 lol


----------



## MIKELAP

magiccabbage said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > i guess your in the general price range I paid $1000.00 last year for my 2 year old WA2 with equivalent tubes
> ...


 
 I guess your looking to buy a pair of tubes ,your WA2 should cover it lol


----------



## magiccabbage

mikelap said:


> I guess your looking to buy a pair of tubes ,your WA2 should cover it lol


 
 Na I have the money for tubes for the WA5 - Ill be selling the Wa2 and T1 (when it comes back) to fund a new DAC. Probably go for the Schiit Yggy or Hugo TT. 
  
 I think the new Hugo is beautiful 
  

  
 might also get an audeze LCD something


----------



## Krutsch

mikelap said:


> I guess your looking to buy a pair of tubes ,your WA2 should cover it lol


 

 Elrog Fever... Catch IT!


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> Well, it was bound to happen... I added a Sonos Connect box to my head-fi desk rig and the Wi-Fi activity is causing a lot of audible microphonics from the tubes.
> 
> Probably the answer is to run an Ether-hose to the Sonos (and, I suppose, my MacBook) and that will be that. But, I've noticed that I can place an object between the Sonos and the new Tung-Sol 5998 and the artifact ceases (or dramatically reduces to almost inaudible).
> 
> So, my question is this: does anyone out there place any kind of shielding around their tubes to protect against stray EMI/RFI and its negative impact on the tubes?


 

 +1 ... bump... Really? No one here uses tube dampers or has an opinion on the topic?
  
 FWIW, I pulled the box out; I could no longer take the noise, so I moved it to my 2-channel system.


----------



## Stereolab42

Tube dampers will not fix wi-fi interference, since that's electrical not mechanical inteference.


----------



## magiccabbage

I just passed 50 hours on my WA5 today. I haven't got that much time to listen in the last few weeks but the amp sounds amazing now and still with stock tubes! 
  
 How good does this thing get with better tubes? I'm happy enough with the sound right now........


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> I just passed 50 hours on my WA5 today. I haven't got that much time to listen in the last few weeks but the amp sounds amazing now and still with stock tubes!
> 
> How good does this thing get with better tubes? I'm happy enough with the sound right now........


 
  
 WA5 scales very, very well with better glass. I think of it as more of a 'tube platform' than an amp.
  
 Just about anything you do with 300Bs is going to be significantly better than stock.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> WA5 scales very, very well with better glass. I think of it as more of a 'tube platform' than an amp.
> 
> Just about anything you do with 300Bs is going to be significantly better than stock.


 
 Madness! Even detail retrieval, sound-stage, bass impact, all improvements over the stock?  
  
 I know things like timbre and naturalness are improved - I mean I can imagine that happening but its hard to imagine hearing more in a recording. I have been wrong about these things in the past and I suppose I'll just have to wait and see. Excited..


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Madness! Even detail retrieval, sound-stage, bass impact, all improvements over the stock?
> 
> I know things like timbre and naturalness are improved - I mean I can imagine that happening but its hard to imagine hearing more in a recording. I have been wrong about these things in the past and I suppose I'll just have to wait and see. Excited..


 

 I will get back to you later on today re the EML's try and help you out there


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> I will get back to you later on today re the EML's try and help you out there


 
 Sweet - I'll take all the help I can get


----------



## isquirrel

Big day yesterday, finally the Shunyata gear arrived. Good grief its heavy, the cables look like you could tie a ship with them. Apparently it takes a full 4 days of continued use for the passive circuits to fully come up to give full benefit. I was really doubting myself on spending this much on power, however I am glad to proved wrong, there now doesn't appear to be any noise at all. Everything seems louder and richer. Like a veil has been lifted.
  
 Also decided to run with KEF LS 50's out of the 234's, really didn't think 8 Watts would do it, but they do wonderfully and its nice not being tied to the desk for listening.
  
 Some pics


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> Sweet - I'll take all the help I can get


 
  
 If you have a friend (or a friendly store) you can borrow some high end 300Bs from to try that would be the best option.
  
 Always better to try for yourself than reading about what others are yarping on about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What I can say is that the WA5 with SERPs (or any other high end 300B) is a very different experience than the vomit-inducing stock tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> What I can say is that the WA5 with SERPs (or any other high end 300B) is a very different experience than the vomit-inducing stock tubes.


 
 hahahahahaha............. they sound amazing to me - the stock 
  
 Imagine what the Elrogs can do compared to stock!!! By the way isquirrel I love the pics, the gear looks amazing
  
 How sensitive are your wilsons?


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> hahahahahaha............. they sound amazing to me - the stock
> 
> Imagine what the Elrogs can do compared to stock!!! By the way isquirrel I love the pics, the gear looks amazing
> 
> How sensitive are your wilsons?


 

 Thanks, Tony is absolutely right, the difference between stock tubes and good 300B's is staggering. Don't forget the driver tubes and the rectifiers, that's where we all seem to spend time finding the right system synergy.
  
 They are Kef LS 50's - 85dB/1W


----------



## Porteroso

Squirrel, your setup is sickening. Well done.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> .
> 
> They are Kef LS 50's - 85dB/1W


 
 I meant the big Wilson Alexandras. Was wondering if they were high efficiency and if he WA234 could power them but I suppose if it could you would of posted about that already.


----------



## Krutsch

stereolab42 said:


> Tube dampers will not fix wi-fi interference, since that's electrical not mechanical inteference.


 

 Thanks, got that. But some of the products claim to provide shielding from EMI/RFI; for example, the Mapleshade "Tube Crowns" claim: 
  

  


> Once grounded via the thin copper straps we provide, the Crowns shield the tube against stray EMI fields, thus doubling the sonic upgrade.


 
  
 I am just curious if there is anything to their claim and/or if anyone has experience with something else that will mitigate noise issues.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Thanks, got that. But some of the products claim to provide shielding from EMI/RFI; for example, the Mapleshade "Tube Crowns" claim:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Smells very strongly of audiophile snake oil to me...


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> <snip, snip>
> 
> Some pics...


 
  
 Wow. Oh, did I say: Wow?
  
 BTW, I've been eyeing the KEF LS-50s for sometime (for my small living room, as opposed to my desk). Do they sound as great as thy look? I've never seen a set of speakers in their price range generate such glowing reviews.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Smells very strongly of audiophile snake oil to me...


 

 You know what they say... if it looks like snake-oil, and smells like snake-oil... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But, one never knows and I was curious if anyone has tried these.


----------



## reeltime

Got a note today from Marc at True Audiophile.  He said his new shipment of Elrogs have arrived and mine will be going out as soon as they test them.  
  
 Here's the interesting part-- he said there's a problem in shipping and he's going to have to change to FedEx, and his import costs are going up.  He will be bumping up the price of the tubes.  
  
 Get 'em now!


----------



## Angelbelow

magiccabbage said:


> I just passed 50 hours on my WA5 today. I haven't got that much time to listen in the last few weeks but the amp sounds amazing now and still with stock tubes!
> 
> How good does this thing get with better tubes? I'm happy enough with the sound right now........


 
  
 I know what you mean, very happy with what I've heard as well. The upgraded 6sn7 tubes I had to send back due to defect but just got the Brimars and loving them so far (only about 4 hours of listenning though.) The other tubes are stock. Can only imagine how good it'll get with upgrades.


----------



## Angelbelow

Just received my replacement Sylvania 6SN7GT (1952 vintage ONLY/bad boys tall). First pair had a dead tube on arrival. I've never really been good at A/Bing things because I don't take note of what I'm hearing and I immediate dive into the upgraded components. With the Brimars and the new Sylvanias installed, I'm absolutely loving what I'm hearing. The music is very forward, lively, and engaging. Lots of details flying everywhere and presented in a very holographic way.


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> I meant the big Wilson Alexandras. Was wondering if they were high efficiency and if he WA234 could power them but I suppose if it could you would of posted about that already.


 

 The big Wilson's are 95dB/1W so yep they will power them but not to satisfying levels. Haven't tried them.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> The big Wilson's are 95dB/1W so yep they will power them but not to satisfying levels. Haven't tried them.


 
 When you say satisfying levels do you mean in terms of sound quality or Volume? I would of thought that 8-10 watts is enough to get volume from a 95db speaker.


----------



## Justin_Time

magiccabbage said:


> I meant the big Wilson Alexandras. Was wondering if they were high efficiency and if he WA234 could power them but I suppose if it could you would of posted about that already.


 
 I do not know about the Wilson Alexandria and the WA234, but I have tried on a less grand scale the WA5 with the WATT/Puppy 8 (similar to the Sasha) and the sound is excellent on the midrange and treble but 8 watts were clearly not enough to produce a satisfying bass. I would say that the set up is OK for low- to moderately-low level listening.  I was able to drive the WATT/Puppy fine with 25 watts using the First Watt.


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> When you say satisfying levels do you mean in terms of sound quality or Volume? I would of thought that 8-10 watts is enough to get volume from a 95db speaker.


 

 Volume yes, but distinct lack of anything resembling decent bass. I would think current ability and damping factor of the amp is the limiting factor.


----------



## isquirrel

In other news, the 234's drive the KEF's okay and are sounding much better now and sound much smoother, its recommended to give them at least 200 hours of burn in, so that has me swapping tubes every 5 hours or so. PITA. I hate burn in.
  
 Really impressed and happy with the Brimars.
  
 I was an idiot as I was unplugging the speaker cables every time I listened to headphones until Matt pointed out that when you change the output key it it disabled the speaker output or vice versa.
  
 He couldn't wait to try the Takatsukis so he took them into the dealer and stuck them in a WA5 and reports very promising things.
  
  
 Roll on Monday, we have 2 days of playing with Tubes, headphones etc


----------



## musicman59

reeltime said:


> Got a note today from Marc at True Audiophile.  He said his new shipment of Elrogs have arrived and mine will be going out as soon as they test them.
> 
> Here's the interesting part-- he said there's a problem in shipping and he's going to have to change to FedEx, and his import costs are going up.  He will be bumping up the price of the tubes.
> 
> Get 'em now!


 
 I was on the fence since I have a pair of EML 300B Mesh, a pair of EAT and a pair of AVVT but your post pushed me to the other side. Now my wallet is really mad at you!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I placed my order and jot an email from Marc letting me know all the ones that just arrived were pre-ordered and the next shipment is expected at the end of the month.
 At least I still got them at the current $1,095 price.
  
 Now I might sell EAT.


----------



## Badas

What a album. Kicking back and listening to it.

WA22 with Brimar 5Z4 Rectifier, Russian power tubes and RCA Greyglass 6SN7's. By the way the sound from these tubes tick all my Wishlist and cost under $100 for the complete set.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> What a album. Kicking back and listening to it.
> 
> WA22 with Brimar 5Z4 Rectifier, Russian power tubes and RCA Greyglass 6SN7's. By the way the sound from these tubes tick all my Wishlist and cost under $100 for the complete set.


 

 Beauty! Congrats on your tube acquisitions.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> What a album. Kicking back and listening to it.
> 
> WA22 with Brimar 5Z4 Rectifier, Russian power tubes and RCA Greyglass 6SN7's. By the way the sound from these tubes tick all my Wishlist and cost under $100 for the complete set.


 
  
 Great job ! Really enjoying the Brimar's. RCA Grey Glass is a lovely tube. Must sound good.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Great job ! Really enjoying the Brimar's. RCA Grey Glass is a lovely tube. Must sound good.




Sounds fabulous. I wouldn't change or crave a difference in the sound signature.

I have a hard choice. Do I go and try a VT99 type of drive tube and get the adapters? or do I just collect more RCA 6SN7's Greyglass (I have two sets now).

Something I have to think about this year.


----------



## Angelbelow

Some more trouble shooting.. hearing loud clicks when my HE500s are connected to the Wa5 before any music is playing. One of the channels went out as well. After a while it'll come back on and be fine.
  
 Recently changed two of the stock tubes to the Brimar 5z4gy and Sylvania bad boys.
  
 Switched out the Brimar's to the RCA rectifiers and sound was working again. But plugged the Brimars back in to check if they were the problem but they work now too. Currently things are smooth. Wondering if this means one of my new tube purchases is about to die out.


----------



## Justin_Time

isquirrel said:


> Volume yes, but distinct lack of anything resembling decent bass. I would think current ability and damping factor of the amp is the limiting factor.




Agreed!

I am not an EE but from experience I found that even with plenty of power (100+ watts) amps with small power supply and limited current capabilities--I have not checked damping factor--produce poor sound quality with the HE-6: weak bass impact and limited dynamic contrast (swing between soft and loud at the same volume setting).


----------



## djd1122

isquirrel said:


> Big day yesterday, finally the Shunyata gear arrived. Good grief its heavy, the cables look like you could tie a ship with them. Apparently it takes a full 4 days of continued use for the passive circuits to fully come up to give full benefit. I was really doubting myself on spending this much on power, however I am glad to proved wrong, there now doesn't appear to be any noise at all. Everything seems louder and richer. Like a veil has been lifted.


 
  
 I would like to hear your impression of the Shunyata Triton / Typhon and Zitron power cords after they burn in.  I have a Triton / Typhon and all Zitron Anaconda XLR interconnects and power cables.  On my system, before the Shunyata cables, I had a Cardas Clear power cord on my Liquid Gold amp with Cardas Clear XLR interconnects and the music had nice emotion from the mid-range.  With the Triton/Typhon and Zitron Anaconda cables, there was less mid-range and the music had less emotion.  After over 500 hours of burn in on the Shunyata gear, to me it is still a little light in the mid-range but the clarity is brilliant and no fatigue in my system.  In my system with the Shunyata gear, the emotion is back but comes from the higher frequencies instead of the mid-range.  I couldn't go back to Cardas Clear power cords. 
  
 It will be interesting to hear if the music on your system has less emotion with the WA-234 and Shunyata gear.  You may not have less emotion in your system with the Shunyata gear because of tubes in the WA-234 vs my solid state Liquid Gold.


----------



## Porteroso

angelbelow said:


> Some more trouble shooting.. hearing loud clicks when my HE500s are connected to the Wa5 before any music is playing. One of the channels went out as well. After a while it'll come back on and be fine.
> 
> Recently changed two of the stock tubes to the Brimar 5z4gy and Sylvania bad boys.
> 
> Switched out the Brimar's to the RCA rectifiers and sound was working again. But plugged the Brimars back in to check if they were the problem but they work now too. Currently things are smooth. Wondering if this means one of my new tube purchases is about to die out.


 
 Sometimes you can get a bad connection, and that can cause problems like what you may be hearing. Sometimes just taking it out and putting it back in will fix the issue.


----------



## Justin_Time

angelbelow said:


> Some more trouble shooting.. hearing loud clicks when my HE500s are connected to the Wa5 before any music is playing. One of the channels went out as well. After a while it'll come back on and be fine.
> 
> Recently changed two of the stock tubes to the Brimar 5z4gy and Sylvania bad boys.
> 
> Switched out the Brimar's to the RCA rectifiers and sound was working again. But plugged the Brimars back in to check if they were the problem but they work now too. Currently things are smooth. Wondering if this means one of my new tube purchases is about to die out.




I had a similar problem. 

In my case it turned out to simply be poor connection between the tube pins and the socket. If this persists, it will pop your fuse.

To fix it, I just open the bottom of the amp, carefully bend and adjust the springs in the socket for tighter fits and the problem went away.

You can also replace or upgrade the sockets but that is not worth the labor costs--lots of wires and solder points.


----------



## isquirrel

djd1122 said:


> I would like to hear your impression of the Shunyata Triton / Typhon and Zitron power cords after they burn in.  I have a Triton / Typhon and all Zitron Anaconda XLR interconnects and power cables.  On my system, before the Shunyata cables, I had a Cardas Clear power cord on my Liquid Gold amp with Cardas Clear XLR interconnects and the music had nice emotion from the mid-range.  With the Triton/Typhon and Zitron Anaconda cables, there was less mid-range and the music had less emotion.  After over 500 hours of burn in on the Shunyata gear, to me it is still a little light in the mid-range but the clarity is brilliant and no fatigue in my system.  In my system with the Shunyata gear, the emotion is back but comes from the higher frequencies instead of the mid-range.  I couldn't go back to Cardas Clear power cords.
> 
> It will be interesting to hear if the music on your system has less emotion with the WA-234 and Shunyata gear.  You may not have less emotion in your system with the Shunyata gear because of tubes in the WA-234 vs my solid state Liquid Gold.


 
  
 First up I will say that the ability of a music system to stimulate me emotionally is singly the most important factor. My system tuning is always to get the most musical/emotional connection.
  
 Hence my addiction to tubes and the choice of Woo valve amps. It has been my experience that the recent Cardas Clear, headphone cables and signal cables has been a distinct departure from their previous house sound which I found on the dark side. Cardas seem to have got the balance just about right now. Its is the richest most musical cable I have tried (& I have tried a few) the only cables that handily surpass them are the Transparent OPUS, however that's not even a remotely valid value discussion.
  
 So I use a combination of the Cardas Clear for signal and the Shunyata for power, I believe that plays to their respective strengths.
  
 Triton/Typhon/Sigma - I am at the 80 hour mark. I understand that Shunyata products take a great deal of time to burn in properly. However before the Triton/Typhon combination I had a Talos for some time. I used the Talos with both Cardas Clear Beyond and cheaper Shunyata VTX cables. The Cardas were musical and conveyed musicality/emotion well, the Shunyata worked better with the Talos. Shunyata power products seem to perform their best when used as a whole. No surprises there. Does the Triton/Typhon/Sigma rig sound good, hell yes, I had no idea how much noise there was in my system until this gear. My musical enjoyment has gone to the mountain top and its not even close to burn in.
  
 I will refrain from getting into a value discussion about the Triton/Typhon/Sigma equipment and using it with head-fi


----------



## isquirrel

IN OTHER NEWS !!
  
 On my way to pick up Matt and the Takatsukis !!! 24 hours of 300B/rectifier orgy coming up. Will be sure to post our collective thoughts and pics for your viewing pleasure. (Yes I am excited)


----------



## Porteroso

isquirrel said:


> IN OTHER NEWS !!
> 
> On my way to pick up Matt and the Takatsukis !!! 24 hours of 300B/rectifier orgy coming up. Will be sure to post our collective thoughts and pics for your viewing pleasure. (Yes I am excited)


 
 A bit jealous  Sounds like a lot of fun, and a shootout like this isn't something we get to hear about very often at all. Might be the first of its kind really, when you consider the variety of tubes, and quality of equipment being used. Cannot wait to hear the impressions from both of you.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Sounds fabulous. I wouldn't change or crave a difference in the sound signature.
> 
> I have a hard choice. Do I go and try a VT99 type of drive tube and get the adapters? or do I just collect more RCA 6SN7's Greyglass (I have two sets now).
> 
> Something I have to think about this year.


 

 Mate, my 2 cents, worth trying the TS RP BG if you have two sets of RCA's, retains the lush sound, but adds nice a holographic and immediacy to the mix.
  
 I have returned to them after the "Messerschmitt" 6SN7's - bit too aggressive for me.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> IN OTHER NEWS !!
> 
> On my way to pick up Matt and the Takatsukis !!! 24 hours of 300B/rectifier orgy coming up. Will be sure to post our collective thoughts and pics for your viewing pleasure. (Yes I am excited)


 
 sweet  - I can't wait


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Mate, my 2 cents, worth trying the TS RP BG if you have two sets of RCA's, retains the lush sound, but adds nice a holographic and immediacy to the mix.
> 
> I have returned to them after the "Messerschmitt" 6SN7's - bit too aggressive for me.


 

 " "Messerschmitt" 6SN7's - bit too aggressive for me."
  
 I'll buy those from you, if you are done with them.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Mate, my 2 cents, worth trying the TS RP BG if you have two sets of RCA's, retains the lush sound, but adds nice a holographic and immediacy to the mix.
> 
> I have returned to them after the "Messerschmitt" 6SN7's - bit too aggressive for me.




Thanks for that.

TS RP is Tung-Sol Round Plate. I'm guessing the round plate is the top micra. What is the BG? and is it a 6SN7?


----------



## Porteroso

The ts rp is both in 6sn7 and 6f8g. Both are said to sound phenomenal. The ones you want are VT-99 fpr the 6f8g version. Just like the good ones are VT-231 for 6sn7. Much cheaper for 6f8g though. Some on ebay for 99 a piece I think.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ... What is the BG? and is it a 6SN7?


 
  
 Bottom Getter. Some tubes are top getter or side getter ... etc.


----------



## musicman59

BG is Black Glass


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> TS RP is Tung-Sol Round Plate. I'm guessing the round plate is the top micra. What is the BG? and is it a 6SN7?


 

 Sorry mate for the late response.
  
 Tung Sol - Round Plate - Black Glass - they come in different flavours, there are both round and oval mica's, I prefer the oval. The later ones only have 6SN7 markings, earlier ones have VT-231 & 6SN7 markings and are marked JAN-CTL usually. 
  
 I have four sets all of the above flavours, they are all excellent, main thing is low noise, they are known for their micro phonics and tight machining, other than that don't think you can go wrong.
  
 Oh and the glass never sits straight in the base, if it is chances are its a fake.


----------



## isquirrel

Some rectifier pics, to give you a size comparison


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Sorry mate for the late response.
> 
> Tung Sol - Round Plate - Black Glass - they come in different flavours, there are both round and oval mica's, I prefer the oval. The later ones only have 6SN7 markings, earlier ones have VT-231 & 6SN7 markings and are marked JAN-CTL usually.
> 
> ...




Okay. I will give them a go. 

The RCA Greyglass don't sit in their base straight either. I like that. Makes them more appealing.

Does the TS have a similar mellow lazy sound signature like the RCA?


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Okay. I will give them a go.
> 
> The RCA Greyglass don't sit in their base straight either. I like that. Makes them more appealing.
> 
> Does the TS have a similar mellow lazy sound signature like the RCA?


 

 I will PM you the contact details for my "dealer" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was talking to him last night, he's got 3 pairs of the VT-231's. They go for around for US $500 matched pair.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> I will PM you the contact details for my "dealer" :wink_face:
> 
> I was talking to him last night, he's got 3 pairs of the VT-231's. They go for around for US $500 matched pair.




Thanks.

However at those prices I will pass. 

I'm happier being a bottom feeder. There is a few gems to pick at.


----------



## Angelbelow

porteroso said:


> Sometimes you can get a bad connection, and that can cause problems like what you may be hearing. Sometimes just taking it out and putting it back in will fix the issue.


 
  
  


justin_time said:


> I had a similar problem.
> 
> In my case it turned out to simply be poor connection between the tube pins and the socket. If this persists, it will pop your fuse.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the input. Was working fine until moments ago. Left channel went out again. Turned off the amp, switched the rectifier tubes and everything is fine now.
  
 What kind of diagnostics do you guys recommend I run to try and isolate the issue. The WA5 is pretty new, had it for about a month. Only noticed this issue after I put in the new bulbs.


----------



## Badas

angelbelow said:


> Thanks for the input. Was working fine until moments ago. Left channel went out again. Turned off the amp, switched the rectifier tubes and everything is fine now.
> 
> What kind of diagnostics do you guys recommend I run to try and isolate the issue. The WA5 is pretty new, had it for about a month. Only noticed this issue after I put in the new bulbs.




Run with the other tube for a while and see if the issue returns. If it does then it's a amp problem. If not then it's the tube. Did you get the tube from Langrex? If it is a problem contact them. They are really great.

You get problems with tubes sometime. I bought a bunch of Russian power tubes. 12 of them. Not one worked properly. Got a set from another source and all is great.


----------



## Moon2014

Today I received a matched quad Philips Miniwatt ECC83 (NOS) for my GES. 



The first impression is really good. Have someone experience how long they need for burn in?


----------



## Krutsch

moon2014 said:


> Today I received a matched quad Philips Miniwatt ECC83 (NOS) for my GES.
> 
> 
> The first impression is really good. *Have someone experience how long they need for burn in?*


 
  
 +1 ... is there a generic answer to that question?
  
 I've been going a little crazy buying tubes for my WA3 (crazy for me, anyway, not in an @isquirrel sort of way, mind you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). I am finding making comparisons a little overwhelming because, of course, you can't exactly switch back and forth to A/B.
  
 I am currently using a TS 5998 and recently acquired Siemens E88CCs; I suddenly became aware that this combo sounds pretty good with the Grados, as compared with the stock tubes and even trying the Sylvania 6080. My previous set was a TS 7236 with Telefunken E188CCs, which I thought sounded amazing with the Senns.
  
 But, I don't know if I am really just experiencing the effects of tube "burn-in", bad aural memory, or FOTM and expectation bias.
  
 So, I want to go back, form some pairings and do some critical listening with different music and cans and take notes.  But, before I do that, I want to make sure the tubes themselves are in a steady state, from a sound perspective. I'm sure many of you have done this exercise before, but the tube thing is new to me.


----------



## Moon2014

krutsch said:


> +1 ... is there a generic answer to that question?
> 
> I've been going a little crazy buying tubes for my WA3 (crazy for me, anyway, not in an @isquirrel
> sort of way, mind you   ). I am finding making comparisons a little overwhelming because, of course, you can't exactly switch back and forth to A/B.
> ...






I am listening to the Philips since one hour and it sounds amazing. I am also totaly insane I started with HeadFi in August last year....and now 

For me it is fantastic to switch the tubes and geht a different sound. Now I try to geht my best combination oft tubes.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> I've been going a little crazy buying tubes for my WA3 (crazy for me, anyway, not in an @isquirrel sort of way, mind you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, they are Matt's tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  He collected them yesterday, I have the Takatsukis, Elrog's & the EML's left.
  
 Will report on the 300B findings from yesterday later on today. Pics below.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

isquirrel said:


> Lol, they are Matt's tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh what an amp those tubes could buy....


----------



## Badas

I got some surprise listening time on Tony's (TonyNewMan) rig today. 

What a friggin awesome rig. Not everyday you get to listen to a modded HE6, modded HD800 and LCDx one after the other on the awesome Woo WA5.

Thanks mate I enjoyed.

That WA5 and modded HE6 is a killer combo.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I got some surprise listening time on Tony's (TonyNewMan) rig today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The modded HE6 with enough push behind it is something else. Killer headphone. No other ortho or dynamic that I have heard beats it (HD800, LCD-3F, LCD-X).
  
 I have made some enquiries about the Simaudio Moon 430HA - none in the country at the moment so it might be a while before I can get my grubby hands on one.


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> The modded HE6 with enough push behind it is something else. Killer headphone. No other ortho or dynamic that I have heard beats it (HD800, LCD-3F, LCD-X).
> 
> I have made some enquiries about the Simaudio Moon 430HA - none in the country at the moment so it might be a while before I can get my grubby hands on one.




For the HE6 you use the K1000 output from the WA5 have this output more power then the normal headphone Jack? Can I use every headphone with a 4 pin XLR with this output, maybe the HD800?

What kind oft mod did you with the HE6 and the HD800?

Thanks


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> For the HE6 you use the K1000 output from the WA5 have this output more power then the normal headphone Jack? Can I use every headphone with a 4 pin XLR with this output, maybe the HD800?
> 
> What kind oft mod did you with the HE6 and the HD800?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 The K1K output is the only WA5 output suitable for the HE6 - it delivers 8W of sonic goodness.
  
 I have tried it with the HD800 with the K1K output, just for a laugh. The noise floor is so high on this output that the headphone has a loud buzz and is unusable from this socket. The HPH selector is the right choice for the HD800, the HPL for the LCD-X - you get a much better result.
  
 I really, really wouldn't recommend plugging a high sensitivity headphone like the LCD-X into the K1K output even as an experiment - why risk damaging a very expensive headphone? 8W is way too much juice for the LCD-X. The HPL output is perfect for this headphone.
  
 I did the "standard" 3 mods - fuzzor + grill removal + vegan pads. Improves the comfort and the sound. I also added a seat belt protector across the headband to ease the pressure on my bald pointy head.
  
 If you have a WA5 I highly recommend trying a modded HE6 from the K1K output - it is the best experience I have had in HeadFi so far (disclaimer - I have never heard the SR009/BHSE combo or the Abyss planar).
  
 The HE6 thread on this forum has a bunch of helpful posts on the mods (and pictures - some from me).
  
 EDIT - forgot to mention - my HD800 mod is the "standard" adhesive foam mod, as per the Inner Fidelity site. Link below.
  
Link
  
 At times I found the HD800 treble too much - it went feral and made me dislike the headphone. The foam mod fixed that and made me like the HD800.


----------



## Angelbelow

badas said:


> Run with the other tube for a while and see if the issue returns. If it does then it's a amp problem. If not then it's the tube. Did you get the tube from Langrex? If it is a problem contact them. They are really great.
> 
> You get problems with tubes sometime. I bought a bunch of Russian power tubes. 12 of them. Not one worked properly. Got a set from another source and all is great.


 
  
 Just a quick update on the matter, I switched out the driver tubes. My newly purchased sylvania 6SN7GT vintage with the 6SN7WGT Philips ECG. I think another member told me these were late production sylvanias.
  
 Thought I would add some thoughts on the differences. The vintage sylvanias, or the bad boys with the 3 holes in each plate were definitely more airy. Felt more holographic. The Philips ECG are noticably more bass-y without being overwhelming. Definitely has a warmer feel to them as well.


----------



## xsk3l3t0rx

i have the WA6 standard model from 2012 i believe. i have it setup with a pair of 300ohm sennheiser HD600's. i use a NuForce uDac2 for my DAC out of my computer playing lossless through deadbeef player on ubuntu linux 14.04. i think it sounds wonderful. i must admit that the worst part of my chain is the RCA cables im using between my dac and the WA6. they are just radio shack RCA cables ive had laying around for years. ive seen the snake oil posts here about cables, and while i feel that i am not knowledgeable enough to debate the pros and cons, i have been a hifi enthusiast for ~5yrs now (never posting just lurking), and i feel that i could continue on using them and not have a problem. that being said, the WA6 is wonderful after the intial honeymoon period/break-in time. i love the fact that you can power cans from 30-300ohms w/ the flick of a switch. very cool. also, this is my first post, please dont tear me apart here.


----------



## Krutsch

xsk3l3t0rx said:


> i have the WA6 standard model from 2012 i believe. i have it setup with a pair of 300ohm sennheiser HD600's. i use a NuForce uDac2 for my DAC out of my computer playing lossless through deadbeef player on ubuntu linux 14.04. i think it sounds wonderful. i must admit that the worst part of my chain is the RCA cables im using between my dac and the WA6. they are just radio shack RCA cables ive had laying around for years. ive seen the snake oil posts here about cables, and while i feel that i am not knowledgeable enough to debate the pros and cons, i have been a hifi enthusiast for ~5yrs now (never posting just lurking), and i feel that i could continue on using them and not have a problem. that being said, the WA6 is wonderful after the intial honeymoon period/break-in time. i love the fact that you can power cans from 30-300ohms w/ the flick of a switch. very cool. also, this is my first post, please dont tear me apart here.


 

 Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet.
  
 I've chosen to spend some $$$ on cables (nothing exotic, but not RadioShack either); however, you can skip that step and head over to BlueJeans cables for quality construction, at the lengths you choose and at a very reasonable price (I've used them in my 2-channel system).


----------



## xsk3l3t0rx

thanks for the heads up! i was looking into forza audio works as well, as they seem to have a pretty good company going on. custom cables and what not. ill look into them soon!


----------



## TonyNewman

xsk3l3t0rx said:


> i have the WA6 standard model from 2012 i believe. i have it setup with a pair of 300ohm sennheiser HD600's.... this is my first post, please dont tear me apart here.


 
  
 Welcome to the forum. WA6 + HD600 was my first tube rig - I still have them and use them regularly as my PC audio system. They still sound great - wonderful pairing.


----------



## Krutsch

xsk3l3t0rx said:


> thanks for the heads up! i was looking into forza audio works as well, as they seem to have a pretty good company going on. custom cables and what not. ill look into them soon!


 

 I like ForzaAudio Works and have one of their cables for my portable rig. They are well built and look great; but they are a little spendy, depending on what you order. And, they take about 6 weeks to arrive in the US from the time of order.


----------



## xsk3l3t0rx

lately i've been running the WA6 from the analog output of my focusrite 2i4, using it as a DAC essentially. im not sure if i like it equally or better than the uDac2. i'm considering just getting a shiit SS headphone amp and nixing my WA6. not because i dont like it, but because im moving to CA from MA in the near future, and i need to travel as light as possible. id have to baby my WA6, whereas solid state electronics tend to be a lot more rugged than tubes. i cant yet post it in the classifieds section (as i am still too new). i have a nuforce dda-100 2.0 integrated amp that i power some bookshelf speakers with, and im fascinated with this new Direct-digital technology. id love to see headphone amps start to implement this, as the noise floor is dropped significantly rather than typical switching outputs on amps. it uses pulse width modulation right before it sends the signal to the speakers, and i could see a schematic being made to do the same but rather than speakers, it sends it to your cans. anyone know of something similar that works for headphones?


----------



## reeltime

xsk3l3t0rx said:


> i have the WA6 standard model from 2012 i believe. i have it setup with a pair of 300ohm sennheiser HD600's. i use a NuForce uDac2 for my DAC out of my computer playing lossless through deadbeef player on ubuntu linux 14.04. i think it sounds wonderful. i must admit that the worst part of my chain is the RCA cables im using between my dac and the WA6. they are just radio shack RCA cables ive had laying around for years. ive seen the snake oil posts here about cables, and while i feel that i am not knowledgeable enough to debate the pros and cons, i have been a hifi enthusiast for ~5yrs now (never posting just lurking), and i feel that i could continue on using them and not have a problem. that being said, the WA6 is wonderful after the intial honeymoon period/break-in time. i love the fact that you can power cans from 30-300ohms w/ the flick of a switch. very cool. also, this is my first post, please dont tear me apart here.


 
  
 I've been of the view that cables don't figure into the sonic equation until you get into that upper stratosphere of audio gear.  I have expensive Abbey Road cables and I have cheaper, but well built, Monoprice cables.  I doubt I'd pass the blind taste test, but the Abbey's were on sale and I had a weak moment.  Don't we all?
  
 As long as your connectors are clean and the wire has decent shielding, you should be ok.  
  
 If I were putting together a $50,000 dollar system, I might consider splurging on some better interconnects.  There are simply so many weak links in most people's systems that will make a world of difference if changed, including properly grounding the system in a star configuration (something I'm still working on!)-- cables are in that last 1%.
  
 My opinion, of course.


----------



## Fririce0003

Well, I've arrived home and rested up after my trip up to visit Simon and test out the huge complement of tubes we had amassed between ourselves. After gathering my thoughts I'm finally ready to write down my thoughts on some of the combo's we tried. Some results were surprising and better than expected, others being a tad underwhelming. But I took a lot from the experience and I hope this write up helps you all out as well  This will be a fairly long write up so I apologize in advance, there will be a brief summary at the end though if you'd like to skip ahead.
  
   To begin with the components we used for the listening were as follows: Macbook running Audivarna>LH Lightspeed USB>LH Davinci DAC>Cardas Clear XLR>Woo Audio WA234. The headphones used were the Audeze LCD3F and JPS Labs Abyss. Power conditioning was with the Shunyata Hydra Typhon and Triton using Shunyata Power Cords all round. Most of the listening was done via the Audeze LCD3F, I'll write more on the reason behind that in the next paragraph.
  
   It's worth noting that the musical tastes and what we are trying to achieve with our systems is quite varying between Simon and I. For me I'm after a fast and detailed system with a decent amount of bass and plenty of impact, a headphone system that can emulate the best big rig speaker systems. The music I listen to is mainly electronic, J-Pop, Vocaloid and Japanese Baroque music (Kalafina). I also enjoy listening to some Classical and Jazz when the mood strikes.
   For Simon, having owned a world class big rig emulating that sound he may as well go back to speakers, so with headphones he's looking for a sound unique to headphones, something more emotional, involving and intimate. Most of the music we listened to on the day was from Simon's collection since it was music we could both enjoy, the genres being mainly Jazz, female vocal and some wonderful opera pieces. 
   From our respective system choices we both also enjoy as much detail as possible without it having an impact on musicality.
   Now the reason the LCD3F saw more use for listening was due to us listening to Simon's music for the majority of the comparisons. I'm an avid fan of the Abyss but even i have to admit the LCD3F had them beat with the music we were listening to due to the sheer intimacy of the sound, it just brought the music to life. The Abyss isn't a slouch with this type of music either, but the larger staging of the sound, while in my opinion, more technically impressive just wasn't as suited to the music. Slightly detaching you from the performance compared to the 3F which wonderfully drew you in and immersed you in it. Though for busier tracks with vocals, guitars, drums, bass and electronic sounds atop the mix the Abyss had the upper hand for me due to separating them from each other better rather than a cacophony of sound, comparatively, due to its intimate nature.
   All in all both great headphones depending on your musical preferences, which I was rather surprised about seeing as I had heard the LCD3 before just not the 3F prior to this.
  
   Now onto the tubes, whilst we didn't try all of them out on the day due to time constraints we did try out quite a few. For the driver tubes we used TS RP 6SN7's, RCA Grey glass and RCA Red bases as well as the German 6SN7's with the ceramic Micas.
   Rectifiers were Brimar 5Z4G, Mullard Metal Bases and Takatsuki 274b's.
   Power tubes were EML Mesh, Elrogs and Takatsuki's.
 We left out most of the tubes I had lent to Simon since by then we both had a good idea of their performance. The main ones of note are the Sophia Royal Princess 300B, KR Audio 300B Balloons, Psvane WE274B Replica, Full Music 274B/+/n, Sophia Princess Mesh 274B, Gold Lion GZ34, Psvane CV181, Ken Rad 6SN7 and Sylvania Bad Boys. If you'd like impressions on those they can be found a few pages back written by Simon. Also I will be able to post my impressions on some later when my amps arrive if you'd like.
  
   So here are my summarized, sort of, impressions on some of the combos we tried on the day.
  
   Brimar 5Z4G, EML Mesh 300B, TS RP 6SN7: This was the first combo we tried on the day. The sound wasn't bad, but nothing particularly stood out either. There was bass, but it wasn't as extended or as controlled as I had hoped, the highs were present but without sparkle but the mids disappointed me the most, I had expected the EML to be rich warm and lush... But it was very detached and mater of fact.
  
   Brimar 5Z4G, Elrog 300B, TS RP 6SN7: Switching the EML for the Elrog, oh my, it's just about ruined every 300B I had previously heard. It did everything right, I thought, without compromising. There was spade loads of detail, plenty of soundstage both width, depth and height. But what struck me most was the tonality and speed of this tube, the notes had plenty of weight to them and the leading edges and texturing were top notch. The tone of the tube was very well balanced and neutral, not detached like the EML either, the bass was fast and punchy, the mids were full and lush and the highs were crisp with a nice amount of sparkle. Now I can see why they sold out before they even shipped down here in Aus.
  
   Mullard Metal Bases, Elrog, TS RP: The most profound effect changing to the Mullards had was in terms of bass control, bass extension and the overall speed of the sound. The bass was far more extended and controlled, there wasn't any unnecessary bloom to the bass, it was sharp and sweet but retained plenty of quantity and weight. Now the speed of the sound, it mad all the leading edges sharp and clean, this helped bring out more of the details in the mix as well. Despite accentuating the edges of the notes it didn't loose any musicality it was simply crisp, fast and refreshing. It added impact to the entire range, you could feel the weight of the mids hitting you and the highs crashing atop. Impact like that I had thought reserved for bass notes until now.
  
   Mullard Metal Bases, Takatsuki 300B, TSRP: The Takatsukis were practically fresh out of the box at the time, we tried this combo whilst they were still fresh and didn't go back so take this with a grain of salt as the Takatsuki's improved vastly with every hour we put on them.
   The Takatsuki added extra bass to the mix but lost some control over it compared to the Elrog there was some bloom present. The soundstage was spread out a tad and there was a euphonic nature to the music. The Mullards and Takatsukis seemed to just be a miss match, in terms of speed and sound characteristics. It was a disappointing result given the amount of money and effort that took place to get these tubes. So we hurried to switch in the Takatsuki rectifiers in the hopes that they would be voiced to complement each other.... And we were greatly rewarded.
  
   Takatsuki 300B, Takatsuki 274B, TS RS: This is the combo we spent the majority of the remaining time with. It was impressive at first swap, detailed, euphonic, sophisticated and rich. But it improved almost too vastly after we put 4+ hours on them so I'll write up my thoughts on them from the end of the day where they came into their own.
   The Takatsuki combo was ultra detailed, it pulled a bit more detail than the Elrog, Mullard combo, whilst not being as fast it wasn't slow either. What it traded off for in speed was richness and bass quality and quantity. Simon came up with the best way to describe it as I was almost lost for words. It's the closest tube to the WE Grey Plates, rich luscious mids but with actual bass weight and extension as well as extended crisp highs. Its such a euphonic listen, the decay of the notes and vocals just trails off so sweetly into the deep black background far reaching into the depth of the soundstage. But with the increase in all round sounstage and the euphonic nature of the sound you'd think it would loose its intimacy right? Wrong, completely wrong! The vocals were so immersive and clear, I can't recall the track but it was on one of the dali test CD's, it sounded as though she were whispering right in your ear as the band played with you right in the midst. If you like anything acoustic, vocals, especially female vocals or jazz. This is the combo for you. 
  
   Takatsuki combo versus Mullard/Elrog combo:  Now do I think you could quantify one as simply better than the other? No, not a chance. While Simon was having a rest I switched in my Abyss and listened to some of my tracks. While the Takatsuki's were still better than any tube combo I had heard prior to the day for electronic and vocaloid music I still preferred the speed and staging of the Elrog. But chuck on any classical, vocal or acoustic track, even a couple J-pop and certainly Baroque style bands and the Takatsukis had the edge due to the intimacy and sophistication of the sound. If you had both combos I can say with certainty you'd be set. If you can only get one of the two though you won't be disappointed, no matter what you listen to.
   In the end for my music the Takatsuki's sounded great but the Elrogs won out. For Simon's tastes it was the Takatsukis by a decent margin after we clocked up some hours on them.
  
   A note on driver tubes, we rolled the driver tubes mentioned at the start using the Takatsuki combo. I can say with confidence that the TS RP blows them all away but the other tubes did have some strong points versus one another. They just traded off too much to get their good points compared to the TS.
   RCA Grey Glass: A Nicely balanced frequency, nothing stood out more than the rest, though it could've done with some more weight and extension versus the TS. It also rolled back the details a tad. But the strong point of this tube if you disregard the TS is it's neutral signature and decent soundstage width.
   RCA Red Base: This tubes strong point is it's smokey mids, they just work so well with female vocals, nice husky and intimate. But it trades off neutrality, extension, details and soundstage for those smokey mids.
   German 6SN7's:  These came closest to the TS but still fell short on some points. Voicing is very similar to the TS but you loose some detail and soundstage depth. But the factor that makes me say they're a clear step below the TS is the highs are a tad harsh to my ears. If the TS didn't exist I'd be happy with these and just roll some other cables to compensate... But given the TS do infact exist puts them at the top for drivers.
  
   One strange improvement came at around the 4-5 hour mark on the Takatsuki combo. We switched the amp and all the gear off to change over the powerpoint on Simons wall since the socket was pretty loose and I'm an electrician. So I switch out the point, we move the laptop off that outlet and onto a separate circuit from the rest of the audio gear. Plug the Shunyata conditioners back in, nice and secure, with the cord no longer pulling out from its own weigh. Tidy up and switch it back on, about 30 minutes had passed. I will say the copper on the other side of the point wasn't oxidized at the point of contact with the screw gimbals and the point itself wasn't too old either. We weren't expecting any audible improvement just a practical improvement.
   So we switch everything back on, let everything warm up and settle, then go have a listen... The mids are richer, bass more controlled and the soundstage was broadened. Simon had a listen, handed the headphones to me without a word and the improvement was noticeable instantly. After disbelief we confirmed that we had both heard a noticeable improvement. But I still can't put my finger on what it could've been, taking the laptop out of the circuit? But its all connected back at the switch board. Changing the powerpoint? But the only change was contact pressure not contact area or material. Letting the tubes cooldown? I still have a hard time believing it'd change that vastly in half an hour...
   I don't know what it could have been or if it was a combination of things, we decided it was best to leave it well enough alone and be happy with the improvement.
  
 Finally the summary: If you favor a fast punchy sound the Elrog/Mullard combo takes the cake, I'd suggest it for electronic, rock or anything with a more aggressive sound (Think Rage Against the Machine)
   If you want a more intimate involving sound, look no further than the Takatsuki's. They're best for classical, jazz, acoustic and vocals.
   For driver tubes, it's pretty much TS RP or bust.
   If you're looking for a ultimate price to performance for a rectifier it'd have to be the Brimar, at $15USD a pop it was only beaten by the Mullard Metal Bases and Takatsuki's. The Full Music and Psvanes are roughly on par just with different voicing.
   As for headphone choice and tube combos both the Abyss and LCD3F will sound great and translate the respective tube choices perfectly. But it comes down to, much like the Elrog v Takatsuki, an intimate emotional sound or a fast impactful sound.
  
   Also after hearing Simon's rig I feel as though when my amps arrive I'll be highly tempted to upgrade my DAC and power supply.... I'll have to strongly fight that urge though, between going to Japan and audio I've spent far too much lately. My savings account and offset can't take another hit :S And if anyone wants to count how many words this essay was feel free, I'm pooped!
  
 Well I hoped that helped, if anyone has any questions or queries feel free to ask. Also Simon feel free to input your findings and correct any of the interpretations I've made on your part. Also thankyou for being such a wonderful host, I learnt a lot form the experience!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Nice write-up/impression...throughly enjoyed reading it.  I'm in a processing of sketching/building a 300B amp.  This review will definitely help me to choose the tubes.  Price-wise, Elrog got my interest.


----------



## TonyNewman

Wonderful write up - thanks for taking the time to put that together.
  
 My dream combo would be Elrog 300B / TS RP 6SN7 / Takatsuki 274B, unfortunately not covered above.
  
 If you do get a chance to try this tube combo please share how it compares.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Wonderful write up - thanks for taking the time to put that together.
> 
> My dream combo would be Elrog 300B / TS RP 6SN7 / Takatsuki 274B, unfortunately not covered above.
> 
> If you do get a chance to try this tube combo please share how it compares.




Hi Tony, glad I could help. I'll give the Elrog/Takatsuki combo a go when I have the chance and let you know how it goes. Simon may be able to assist with that one. We ended up leaving the Takatsuki combo alone simply due to how well they complemented each other. I have a feeling that the Eprogs may be a bit too fast for the Takatsuki rectifiers though. Much like the Mullard/Takatsuki 300B combo was miss paced with each other. But if you have or can find mullard metal bases they pair beautifly with the Elrog and are about half the price of the Takatsuki rectifiers.


----------



## Porteroso

Great writeup. Interesting on many levels.


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## HiFiGuy528

Join us this Thursday at AudioVisionSF for an evening of drinks and music.


----------



## Feedbacker

What could it mean if the potentiometer dial on my WA6SE produces a loud buzz through the headphones when touched, increasing with volume, and not present when my hand is removed from it? No other part of the chassis or the power supply unit produce this effect.

I'm currently running it with a Brimar 5Z4G rectifier and a pair of 6EM7s with Woo adapters. Really worried there might be live electricity running through the potentiometer, but practical electronics are not exactly my thing. 

Any help very gratefully received.


----------



## Angelbelow

badas said:


> Run with the other tube for a while and see if the issue returns. If it does then it's a amp problem. If not then it's the tube. Did you get the tube from Langrex? If it is a problem contact them. They are really great.
> 
> You get problems with tubes sometime. I bought a bunch of Russian power tubes. 12 of them. Not one worked properly. Got a set from another source and all is great.


 
  
 Looks like its the driver tubes. Everytime I use them they cause my headphones click and pop before music is even playing. And they will usually cause a channel to die out after a while.
  
 These weren't the ones from Langrex but good to know that they are helpful.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Wonderful write up - thanks for taking the time to put that together.
> 
> My dream combo would be Elrog 300B / TS RP 6SN7 / Takatsuki 274B, unfortunately not covered above.
> 
> If you do get a chance to try this tube combo please share how it compares.


 
  


fririce0003 said:


> Well, I've arrived home and rested up after my trip up to visit Simon and test out the huge complement of tubes we had amassed between ourselves.


 
 Matt,
  
 Excellent write up !
  
 The Takatsuki's have come a long way since and no doubt have a way to go yet. As Matt mentioned we have differing musical and sonic preferences which helped us to arrive from differing perspectives. Ultimately the comparison came to two sets of valves:
  
 The Takatsuki's and the Elrog/Mullard - They both offer a different sound but equally as good. 
  
 It became clear to us both that the two compliments of valves the Takatsuki 300B & 274B & Elrog / Mullard metal base GZ34 combo's are not just preferred - they are essential to get  the best performance from each setup.
  
 We both thought the EML Mesh 300B's plates would be the most lush sounding. It is fair to say we were both disappointed. However ! I haven't tried the matching EML 5UR4 rectifier as they stuffed up the order & only put one in the shipment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so have to reserve judgement as a similar matching issue might be going on.
  
 Any other combo of 300B and rectifier fell significantly short. I too was hoping that the Tung Sol 6SN7, Elrog 300B, Takatsuki 274B would work well. It does not. I commented to Matt that it sounded like their fighting with each other, the best attributes of each valve were lost, in fact they took from each other.
  
 Similarly when we first heard the Takatsuki 300B with the Mullard my face dropped, I know intimately the sound of the Mullard's and I thought oh no, we have just blown a lot of money on these, the look on Matt's face was priceless ! I really felt for him having dragged himself all the way to Japan to pick them up. I walked away and left Matt to it, when I came back he had the Takatsuki 274B in with the Takatsuki 300B and was smiling, I couldn't believe the difference. The two valves were making musical love. 
  
 I am not really surprised at this outcome. I asked Audionote when I ordered the Elrog's what the best rectifier was to match them with and Bryan didn't hesitate - "Mullard Metal Base", so I figured that the Takatsukis would be voiced to compliment each other. Trouble is the Mullards are basically un-obtainium its very rare to find them for sale & very few that have them would sell them as they are so rare and irreplaceable. They are though a value proposition as they last for 100,000 hours or so. A lifetime.
  
 We are also dealing with tubes either at or very close to top of the tree here with very high resolutions, they are inherently intolerant of any mis-matching.
  
 I would add that the Takatsukis are (by a small margin only) not quite as fast as the Elrog/Mullard combo, but they have improved out of sight over the past 2 days, it's only something you notice if you directly compare the two. There have been times I felt the Elrog/Mullards were a touch too fast. 
  
 So to the conclusion:
  
 We ranked the valves in the following order:
  
 1st place tied - Takatsuki 300B & 274B and the Elrog/Mullard combo
 2nd place tied - Sophia Royal Princess 300B and KR 300B - again both offer a different sound but equally as good.
 3rd place - EML 300B Mesh Plate - pending though on results when paired with the matching rectifier.
  
 > Matt - Thanks for backing me up on the comments on the Abyss v LCD3F I have received some really aggressive PM's on my post on an Audeze forum from Abyss owners, so much so that that's why I haven't posted anything on Head-Fi since.
  
*To everyone else* - I very much enjoy the community spirit we have in this forum and thank you for the PM's of support which offset the haters & trolls  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thank you all, Simon
  
 Photo of our setup for the day:


----------



## isquirrel

Macro photo of the Takatsuki 300B's - interesting internals


----------



## isquirrel

Macro photo of the Takatsuki 274B


----------



## isquirrel

Photos of the Takatsuki's paired up. Don't understand why Woo puts the tube sockets facing backwards ?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

hifiguy528 said:


> Join us this Thursday at AudioVisionSF for an evening of drinks and music.


 
  
  
 Oooo would love to be there especially in the great city of San Fran but living in the UK is just toooo far to go.  
  
 Was in San Fran in September 2008 for a few days when I travelled around the West Coast for 4.5 weeks.  Amazing holiday. 
  
 Wish there was a Woo Audio get together in the UK !    Can you arrange one Woo Audio ?   Im sure you will have more new UK fans that are not aware of Woo Audio !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

isquirrel said:


> Macro photo of the Takatsuki 274B


 
 ++A  Great photo


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

isquirrel said:


> Photos of the Takatsuki's paired up. *Don't understand why Woo puts the tube sockets facing backwards ?*


 
 An awesome rig      
 Maybe its easier to wire up !


----------



## isquirrel

bonesy jonesy said:


> An awesome rig
> Maybe its easier to wire up !


 

 I asked Jack Woo and he said it was the optimum setup due to shorter wire runs. I looked when I took the amps part to see if I could turn them around but no joy.


----------



## isquirrel

Just to totally confuse myself late at night, swapped the Takatsuki 300B's out for the Elrog's with the Taka 274B's - I am going to reserve any definitive assessment as clearly things have moved along.


----------



## longbowbbs

isquirrel said:


> > Matt - Thanks for backing me up on the comments on the Abyss v LCD3F I have received some really aggressive PM's on my post on an Audeze forum from Abyss owners, so much so that that's why I haven't posted anything on Head-Fi since.
> 
> *To everyone else* - I very much enjoy the community spirit we have in this forum and thank you for the PM's of support which offset the haters & trolls
> 
> ...


 
 Simon, don't let other folks egos affect your comments. Some people spend top dollar assuming the price = the best and it is not that simple. Lot's of different mountain tops for different sonic signatures and music types. I thought Matt described that really well.
  
 Don't sweat the Trolls....Thanks for the interesting comments. I wish I could have been there with you all. What a fun day!
  
 Eric


----------



## HiFiGuy528

feedbacker said:


> What could it mean if the potentiometer dial on my WA6SE produces a loud buzz through the headphones when touched, increasing with volume, and not present when my hand is removed from it? No other part of the chassis or the power supply unit produce this effect.
> 
> I'm currently running it with a Brimar 5Z4G rectifier and a pair of 6EM7s with Woo adapters. Really worried there might be live electricity running through the potentiometer, but practical electronics are not exactly my thing.
> 
> Any help very gratefully received.


 
  
 Are there anything else plugged into the same AC power outlet or strip e.g. laptop charger?  Move the amp to a different location of the house to a dedicated AC outlet, no audio inputs and see if it does the same thing.  Please send your findings to info@wooaudio.com.  Thank you!  ~ Mike


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Photos of the Takatsuki's paired up. Don't understand why Woo puts the tube sockets facing backwards ?


 

 Wow... you guys take Tube Porn to an epic level. Beautiful gear and I can't even imagine what it all sounds like. Congrats!


----------



## Badas

What a excellent write up Matt.

Thanks for all the effort.


----------



## musicman59

Great write-up Fririce0003!
 I am glad I ordered the Elrog. I am planning to used them in my WA5-LE with a pair of TS BG/RP 6F8G. What I am going t be missing are the Mullard GZ34 metal base. Right now I am using a pair of Chemler GZ32. Looked arounf of a pair of the Mullard GZ34 metal base but could not find many around and the ones I saw were very expensive.
  
 Now, The Takatsuki set sound very interesting but is about $2,900 for the 300B + 274B form Pricejapan. Not an easy pill to swallow....


----------



## Feedbacker

hifiguy528 said:


> Are there anything else plugged into the same AC power outlet or strip e.g. laptop charger?  Move the amp to a different location of the house to a dedicated AC outlet, no audio inputs and see if it does the same thing.  Please send your findings to info@wooaudio.com.  Thank you!  ~ Mike


 

 Hi Mike,
  
 No need, I don't think, because after taking your advice, all's well. I kind of knew it was going to be something like that, but I guess I panicked cos I love my Woo so much!!! Going to permanently re-site it away from all other electrical gear...
  
 Thanks a million for replying though!
  
 Cheers, Barry


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Just to totally confuse myself late at night, swapped the Takatsuki 300B's out for the Elrog's with the Taka 274B's - I am going to reserve any definitive assessment as clearly things have moved along.


 
  
 That is a really nice pic. Seems to capture the mood.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> That is a really nice pic. Seems to capture the mood.


 
  
 Definitely induces HeadFi lust & envy. Also makes me want to touch myself inappropriately...


----------



## Badas

Tony,
  
 Mike's comments about the RCA drivers were interesting.
 He has also noted that roll off of detail. Roll off of treble. That is what I love about them.
 Just takes that last shave of harshness away.
 Red Base RCA sounds dreamy. I will put on my to buy list.
  
 I will shoot over that spare set of RCA Greyglass to you ASAP.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony,
> 
> Mike's comments about the RCA drivers were interesting.
> He has also noted that roll off of detail. Roll off of treble. That is what I love about them.
> ...


 
  
 Cheers matey - appreciated.
  
 I have pulled the trigger on the Simaudio 430HA amp/preamp. Should have it in a week or two. Once I have some burn in hours on it I will get you over for a listening session, then post some thoughts in the appropriate threads.
  
 I am expecting great things from this amp. Simaudio make great gear and this beasty should pack the juice to drive the HE6 properly and also act as a great preamp with a _goddam remote _(2 things missing from my Auralic Taurus).


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Tony,
> 
> Mike's comments about the RCA drivers were interesting.
> He has also noted that roll off of detail. Roll off of treble. That is what I love about them.
> ...


 
 I have 3 pairs of NOS Red Base 5692…1958-CBS Hytron/1966-RCA/and another pair of RCA's, but can't remember the year…they are nice sounding tubes!!!


----------



## Fririce0003

musicman59 said:


> Great write-up Fririce0003!
> I am glad I ordered the Elrog. I am planning to used them in my WA5-LE with a pair of TS BG/RP 6F8G. What I am going t be missing are the Mullard GZ34 metal base. Right now I am using a pair of Chemler GZ32. Looked arounf of a pair of the Mullard GZ34 metal base but could not find many around and the ones I saw were very expensive.
> 
> Now, The Takatsuki set sound very interesting but is about $2,900 for the 300B + 274B form Pricejapan. Not an easy pill to swallow....




 There may be hope for the Takatsuki 274B/Elrog pairing yet. Simon tried it out again recently and said in terms of speed the Takatsuki have come a long way with burn in. Though he's reserving his comments until they finish burning in and stabalise. So look forward to that in a week or two, may be a more readily available rectifier solution... Well apart from the pricing on them.


----------



## reeltime

E L R O G!  
  
 They arrived today.  Loaded them up into the WA5LE, fired it up and tested some Stevie Ray on the HD800s.
  
 Previous tubes:  EML 300B Mesh - EML 5U4G Mesh - (Sylvania 6SN7 / or TII 181s) paired w/ HD800.
  
 Immediately I noted a huge jump in bass quantity over the EML.  I also noted less detail on the bottom.  I supposed adding this much bass quantity is by default going to muddy up the bass a little.  Tradeoffs.  It's a bit like that "loudness" button your buddy warned you to leave off, got somehow pressed by accident.  It's a cool sound that I'm actually going to have to adjust to a bit.  Assuming things will tighten up a bit as the tubes burn in.
  
 I also noted a wider soundstage through the midrange to upper midrange.  It stood out to me right away-- so there's gotta be some sort of change there.  
  
 The Elrogs don't drop any detail on the top end.  Very composed.  Impressive.
  
 Overall, I'd call the sound more "full", more musical, composed.  It's just a bit more in every area (the joke here is "But these go to eleven!").  I want to swap back to the Sylvania 6SN7 later tonight.  The 181s have a bit of an edge on them.  I'm curious how the Elrogs behave with a slightly mellower power tube.  
  
 Lots of goodness going on.  Want to be clear, the EML Mesh 300B is a damn good tube-- on first listen, the Elrogs are just a cut above.  Nothing to fear.


----------



## TonyNewman

Nice! Great to see more folks enjoying the Elrog love. I hope to become one of them later in the year (finances permitting).
  
 Just an idea - the EML rectifier might be limiting on the bass. I have the EML mesh 274B that I used in my WA6 and it did not do the bass any favours at all.
  
 Replacing the EML rectifiers with the Brimars would be a very cheap upgrade. I can promise you a big improvement in bass (and other things) compared to the EML.


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> I am just curious if there is anything to their claim and/or if anyone has experience with something else that will mitigate noise issues.


 
  
 Well, brief noise update. I couldn't take it anymore and decided to solve this issue, one way or another. I (correctly) theorized that 2.4 GHz wireless was causing my TS 5998 noise issue, so I moved everything over to 5GHz. Turned out to be a lot of work, but problem solved... no more RFI noise from the tubes.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> Nice! Great to see more folks enjoying the Elrog love. I hope to become one of them later in the year (finances permitting).
> 
> Just an idea - the EML rectifier might be limiting on the bass. I have the EML mesh 274B that I used in my WA6 and it did not do the bass any favours at all.
> 
> Replacing the EML rectifiers with the Brimars would be a very cheap upgrade. I can promise you a big improvement in bass (and other things) compared to the EML.


 

 It might be time to bring back my Mighty 596s...


----------



## magiccabbage

reeltime said:


> E L R O G!
> 
> 
> Lots of goodness going on.  Want to be clear, the EML Mesh 300B is a damn good tube-- on first listen, the Elrogs are just a cut above.  Nothing to fear.


 
 That's great news for me because I plan on buying the EML's soon enough. Keep me posted on how the Elrogs do over time because I might go that route myself eventually. 
  
 By the way - beautiful pics. Can you take a few more of the Elrogs in the WA5 and then maybe the EML 300b's - thanks
  
  Paddy


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> E L R O G!
> 
> They arrived today.  Loaded them up into the WA5LE, fired it up and tested some Stevie Ray on the HD800s.
> 
> ...


 

 Great photo ! The Elrogs improve rapidly in the 1st 20 hours but they really hit their strides around the 80-100 hour mark. I did not have the same experience with the bass. Mine sound tight and controlled although I haven't compared them to the EML's yet.
  
 Congrats ! nice rig


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Nice! Great to see more folks enjoying the Elrog love. I hope to become one of them later in the year (finances permitting).
> 
> Just an idea - the EML rectifier might be limiting on the bass. I have the EML mesh 274B that I used in my WA6 and it did not do the bass any favours at all.
> 
> Replacing the EML rectifiers with the Brimars would be a very cheap upgrade. I can promise you a big improvement in bass (and other things) compared to the EML.


 

 Tony,
  
 I hear different stories about the EML Mesh 274B vs the Mesh 5UR4, supposed to quite different sounding, have you played with the 5UR4 Mesh ?


----------



## Moon2014

reeltime said:


> E L R O G!
> 
> They arrived today.  Loaded them up into the WA5LE, fired it up and tested some Stevie Ray on the HD800s.
> 
> ...




Realy nice picture I hope I will get my WA5 soon 

How long you wait for the ELROG? I spoke with the Distributor here in Germany. There is still a waiting list and you have to wait arround 3 to 4 weeks.


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> Cheers matey - appreciated.
> 
> I have pulled the trigger on the Simaudio 430HA amp/preamp. Should have it in a week or two. Once I have some burn in hours on it I will get you over for a listening session, then post some thoughts in the appropriate threads.
> 
> I am expecting great things from this amp. Simaudio make great gear and this beasty should pack the juice to drive the HE6 properly and also act as a great preamp with a _goddam remote_ (2 things missing from my Auralic Taurus).




I also like Simaudio (Moon) do you have Information about the Price?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Tony,
> 
> I hear different stories about the EML Mesh 274B vs the Mesh 5UR4, supposed to quite different sounding, have you played with the 5UR4 Mesh ?


 
  
 Nope - the 274B was enough to put me off EML rectifiers for life.


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> I also like Simaudio (Moon) do you have Information about the Price?


 
  
 It's 3,500 USD. In my part of the world, with currency conversion and GST etc on top of that.
  
 Some user feedback is starting to happen in the 430HA thread - sounds like a winner so far.


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> Great photo ! The Elrogs improve rapidly in the 1st 20 hours but they really hit their strides around the 80-100 hour mark. I did not have the same experience with the bass. Mine sound tight and controlled although I haven't compared them to the EML's yet.
> 
> Congrats ! nice rig


 
 When I switched out the TII 181s for the Sylvania 6sn7, the bloat went away.  Interesting.  The bass was tighter and more focused (though not as pronounced).  
  
 The 181's sounded much different when paired with the EML mesh 300B.  There was a harshness which I couldn't stand.  I've yet to find any pairing with the 181s that I like.
  
 I'm going to go with the Sylvanias for awhile, and do some rectifier changes-- swapping in the Mighty 596's which didn't pair well with the EML Mesh 300B.  
  
 I don't think the sound is quite where I want it yet.  If the Elrog changes a lot, I may be chasing the sound for a while here.


----------



## reeltime

moon2014 said:


> Realy nice picture I hope I will get my WA5 soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I went with the LE instead of the WA5 because I'm uninterested in the HE-6, and my Genelecs are balanced, so there's no use for the pre-amp.
  
 I waited 2 weeks here in the states.  That wait is likely a bit longer now.


----------



## Silent One

reeltime said:


> It might be time to bring back my Mighty 596s...


 





 The runway is clear...let's get on 'em deck!


----------



## longbowbbs

tonynewman said:


> moon2014 said:
> 
> 
> > I also like Simaudio (Moon) do you have Information about the Price?
> ...


 
 I spent a couple of hours with the HA430 today using a variety of HP's (HD800, LCD-3 LCD-X, Alpha Primes) It is a superb piece. I should have one in for review shortly. Can't wait for that!


----------



## TonyNewman

longbowbbs said:


> I spent a couple of hours with the HA430 today using a variety of HP's (HD800, LCD-3 LCD-X, Alpha Primes) It is a superb piece. I should have one in for review shortly. Can't wait for that!


 
  
 I have so much faith in Simaudio that I ordered my 430HA unheard - starting to feel like I _*didn't *_commit a majot act of dumbass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm hoping it's 8W and overspecced power supply can make the HE6 dance the happy dance.


----------



## longbowbbs

tonynewman said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I spent a couple of hours with the HA430 today using a variety of HP's (HD800, LCD-3 LCD-X, Alpha Primes) It is a superb piece. I should have one in for review shortly. Can't wait for that!
> ...


 
 I would be surprised if it does not make the grade Tony. Can't wait to hear what you think!


----------



## yonexer

I have a WA5-LE.  Should I use high or low port for my HD800?  I found it is quite noisy using the high port.


----------



## TonyNewman

yonexer said:


> I have a WA5-LE.  Should I use high or low port for my HD800?  I found it is quite noisy using the high port.


 
  
 I have never had a noise problem from the high port on the WA5 when using HD800. Rather odd - might be your tubes?
  
 The K1K port was unusable for the HD800 due to noise, but never the HPH output on the selector.


----------



## yonexer

An employee just came over to my house(pretty good customer service), and saying I am listening to solo music, so the noise is more obvious.  He changed quite a few tubes, and it did not help  Just wonder if you can here any hiss without signal input?


----------



## TonyNewman

yonexer said:


> An employee just came over to my house(pretty good customer service), and saying I am listening to solo music, so the noise is more obvious.  He changed quite a few tubes, and it did not help  Just wonder if you can here any hiss without signal input?


 
  
 Never noticed anything, but I'll try again tonight on the WA5 and report back the results.


----------



## yonexer

tonynewman said:


> Never noticed anything, but I'll try again tonight on the WA5 and report back the results.


 

 Thanks.  The noise increases along with the volume on mine.  Will look forward to your findings.


----------



## reeltime

yonexer said:


> I have a WA5-LE.  Should I use high or low port for my HD800?  I found it is quite noisy using the high port.




Definitely should use the high output. Noise is likely either improper grounding or dirty power. Most tube amps make a little hum when you crank them way up with nothing playing, but it's not noticeable with music or at lower volumes. I've been chasing grounding issues with my turntable for a month.


----------



## yonexer

reeltime said:


> Definitely should use the high output. Noise is likely either improper grounding or dirty power. Most tube amps make a little hum when you crank them way up with nothing playing, but it's not noticeable with music or at lower volumes. I've been chasing grounding issues with my turntable for a month.




The hiss is more like white noise, sounds similar to an empty radio channel.

I've tried a fake power cable that does not have ground, and it did not help. Low port is no problem. Does the power supply (the live and null line) matters?


----------



## Badas

yonexer said:


> The hiss is more like white noise, sounds similar to an empty radio channel.
> 
> I've tried a fake power cable that does not have ground, and it did not help. Low port is no problem. Does the power supply (the live and null line) matters?


 
  
 Sounds like you have a tube that has bad vacuum.
  
 I had this before and quoted it as sounding like a bad radio station also.
  
 If I was you I would stop. It needs to get checked. If a tube blows due to bad vacuum it will not be pretty.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Sounds like you have a tube that has bad vacuum.
> 
> I had this before and quoted it as sounding like a bad radio station also.
> 
> If I was you I would stop. It needs to get checked. If a tube blows due to bad vacuum it will not be pretty.


 

 Agreed.  Hiss = Bad.  You can manage hum.  Never use an amp without the ground.


----------



## yonexer

badas said:


> Sounds like you have a tube that has bad vacuum.
> 
> I had this before and quoted it as sounding like a bad radio station also.
> 
> If I was you I would stop. It needs to get checked. If a tube blows due to bad vacuum it will not be pretty.




So which of your tubes was failed? I tried to new input and power tubes today. No changes.


----------



## Badas

yonexer said:


> So which of your tubes was failed? I tried to new input and power tubes today. No changes.




Mine was power tubes.

If you have tried other tubes then it is very unlikely to be tubes.

Gezz I really don't know what it is then. :rolleyes:


----------



## reeltime

OK.. The Mighty 596 has joined the party.  I have to do some familiar listening.  I'm christening this pairing with Billie Holiday Body and Soul 45 RPM Classic Records pressing.  It's delicious, but I don't know the recording well enough to use it as a reference.  It just arrived in the mail, I had to play it.


----------



## magiccabbage

reeltime said:


> OK.. The Mighty 596 has joined the party.  I have to do some familiar listening.  I'm christening this pairing with Billie Holiday Body and Soul 45 RPM Classic Records pressing.  It's delicious, but I don't know the recording well enough to use it as a reference.  It just arrived in the mail, I had to play it.


 
 Do you use HD800? - I was listening to Billie holiday the album - "All or nothing at all" + "Satin Doll"  and could hear some treble harshness on her vocal through HD800 with the WA5 stock. Im wondering do the tubes get rid of that?


----------



## reeltime

magiccabbage said:


> Do you use HD800? - I was listening to Billie holiday the album - "All or nothing at all" + "Satin Doll"  and could hear some treble harshness on her vocal through HD800 with the WA5 stock. Im wondering do the tubes get rid of that?


 

 I think the harshness is in the recording.  It's there when i play through my Genelecs, too.  
  
 My initial impression of the Mighty 596 is musical, but dark.  Loads of bass without the bloat.  It makes the HD800 sound LCD3 like.  It's really an interesting pairing.  I need extensive listening on this setup.  It certainly put me on a path of finding my favorite tracks all night, so anything that makes you want to dive into your collection has something going on.  Right now I'm on the Quality Records 45 RPM of Monk in San Francisco.  This is a perfect match for this recording/amp/tubes/headphones.   It's simply gorgeous.


----------



## magiccabbage

reeltime said:


> I think the harshness is in the recording.  It's there when i play through my Genelecs, too.
> 
> My initial impression of the Mighty 596 is musical, but dark.  Loads of bass without the bloat.  It makes the HD800 sound LCD3 like.  It's really an interesting pairing.  I need extensive listening on this setup.  It certainly put me on a path of finding my favorite tracks all night, so anything that makes you want to dive into your collection has something going on.  Right now I'm on the Quality Records 45 RPM of Monk in San Francisco.  This is a perfect match for this recording/amp/tubes/headphones.   It's simply gorgeous.


 
 Sweet. Do the 596's still go for astronomical prices?


----------



## reeltime

magiccabbage said:


> Sweet. Do the 596's still go for astronomical prices?


 

 I don't know.  I bought these several years ago from Woo.  But they didn't impress me paired with the EML 300B.  The EML 5U4G was just a better match, so the 596s sat in a box ever since.  In fact, I had to do a massive hunt just to locate them.  I found them buried in a box.  Worth the effort, so far!
  
 Still toying with the idea of picking up a matched pair of metal base GZ34s. They were my favorite rectifier in my WA6.  I wonder if they can duplicate their magic in my WA5.  A matched pair is going to be a pricey enterprise.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

a nice pair on ebay atm but as you said $$$$


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> I don't know.  I bought these several years ago from Woo.  But they didn't impress me paired with the EML 300B.  The EML 5U4G was just a better match, so the 596s sat in a box ever since.  In fact, I had to do a massive hunt just to locate them.  I found them buried in a box.  Worth the effort, so far!
> 
> Still toying with the idea of picking up a matched pair of metal base GZ34s. They were my favorite rectifier in my WA6.  I wonder if they can duplicate their magic in my WA5.  A matched pair is going to be a pricey enterprise.


 
  


reeltime said:


> Still toying with the idea of picking up a matched pair of metal base GZ34s. They were my favorite rectifier in my WA6.  I wonder if they can duplicate their magic in my WA5.  A matched pair is going to be a pricey enterprise.


 

 One of the best if not the best rectifier I have heard IMHO although the Taktsuki 274B is coming on very nicely. Mullard Metal Bases are almost impossible to find now, I am trying to source a pair for Matt, but good value when you consider the 100,000+ plus hours lifespan you get with them.


----------



## isquirrel

From the Lunatic fringe !
  
 Have installed the Synergistic Research fuses, and for the encore I am supposed to listen to which direction of the fuse sounds best.....


----------



## Badas

^

  :blink:

However


----------



## kazsud

isquirrel said:


> From the Lunatic fringe !
> 
> Have installed the Synergistic Research fuses, and for the encore I am supposed to listen to which direction of the fuse sounds best.....


 

 Stick them up your nose first


----------



## isquirrel

kazsud said:


> Stick them up your nose first


 

 Tried that, couldn't see, my eyes were watering


----------



## Justin_Time

isquirrel said:


> From the Lunatic fringe !
> 
> Have installed the Synergistic Research fuses, and for the encore I am supposed to listen to which direction of the fuse sounds best.....


 
 After the excellent results I got from different headphone cables, and the the abject failure of a $10,000 speaker cable (in either direction) anything is possible.
  
 But the impact of the fuse direction? That does take me by surprise.  I need to consult with my snake oil (cable) salesman.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> From the Lunatic fringe !


 
  
 I thought I was the only one that used that phrase; you, however, have *earned* your Lunatic Fringe Head-Fi Merit Badge


----------



## isquirrel

lol, was on the phone to Matt who was trying to explain to me how to use a multimeter to test for continuity - no chance my end, so dutifully swapped the fuses around and yep I "think" they sound better in one direction.
  
 More info 'cough' here http://www.synergisticresearch.com/featured/sr-quantum-fuses-review/
  
 So badge accepted - Thank you


----------



## MIKELAP

s


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


>


 
 Excellent song, one of my all time favorites!


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Video sucks though lol


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> Video sucks though lol


 
 Didn't want to mention it, but the video is actually creepy in a weird way!!!
 Really kills the awesome song...that was the first time I saw the video (and wish I didn't) and the last time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have Red Rider in my music library.


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Video sucks though lol
> ...


 
 It is very weird ,had to close my eyes lol. I have this Tom Cochran album   .


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> It is very weird ,had to close my eyes lol. I have this Tom Cochran album   .


 
 I'll have to check it out, any good?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

reeltime said:


> E L R O G!
> 
> They arrived today.  Loaded them up into the WA5LE, fired it up and tested some Stevie Ray on the HD800s.
> 
> ...


 
  
 congratulations!  Beautiful amp and tubes.


----------



## Audioclyde

I've been following the descriptions of the Elrog & Takatsuki 300B's with great interest (and envy ); I'm soon going to 'treat' myself to a pair of new 300B's and it will be either Elrog or Takatsuki. 

I listen to lots of female vocals, jazz etc and welcome more comparisons. I've gleaned that the Takatsuki may be slightly preferable to me (plus somewhat readily available from Japan), but the Elrog is a few hundred bucks cheaper.......decisions, decisions!


----------



## isquirrel

I will be writing a detailed comparison of the Elrog's and Takatsukis in the next couple of weeks. I want to let both sets of valves settle down and get some time on them as they deserve that respect before reaching any strong conclusions.
  
 I will also be comparing them with some commentary on the respective rectifiers Takatsuki 274B and the Mullard metal base and the mix and matching of both. 
  
 My system has had a lot of recent changes with the addition of the Shunyata power gear as well as other bits and pieces which all require proper burn in to reach their respective sonic stability. The last couple of weeks have seen some major changes in the sound due to the state of flux equipment is in, sometimes it sounds very good and other times it is going through a period of burn in instability. 
  
 Both the Takatsukis and Elrogs have come a long way and one thing I am confident in saying is that IMHO they are the cream of modern valves available right now. For instance the Takatsuki 274B now seems to work very well with the Elrog whereas previously they sounded like a mismatch. 
  
 So stayed tuned fellow tube aficionados.


----------



## Krutsch

Question about a tube with a loose base: I received a TS 6520 yesterday with had what appears to be a loose base. That is, I can wiggle the glass bottle portion a little bit. Obviously not ideal, but does that mean the tube is bad and unusable?
  
 I cannot observe anything being broken, but maybe something is under the base portion. How would I be able to tell if the vacuum seal is gone, just looking at the tube?
  
 Sorry if these are obvious questions, but I am nervous that I will damage my amp if I (carefully) insert the tube and try it out. Do I need to be ready with a fire extinguisher if I go for it


----------



## isquirrel

The loose base is a portent of potential issues down the track. I have recently had a tube go that started off with a slightly loose base, of course rolling it in and out doesn't help.

If the vacum is affected you usually see white deposits forming at the top of the tube near or above the mica. It will also sound bad and will fail. 

If I suspect a problem with a tube I normally turn on the amp with volume set to zero and listen through my headphones for signs of noise and other nasties, and be ready to switch off immediately if you hear them. Worst case scenario it will blow the amps fuse, the only valves that on failure cause my Amps to blow fusee are usually the rectifiers. Also don't leave it on unsupervised until you are sure it is stable and fully functional.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Question about a tube with a loose base: I received a TS 6520 yesterday with had what appears to be a loose base. That is, I can wiggle the glass bottle portion a little bit. Obviously not ideal, but does that mean the tube is bad and unusable?
> 
> I cannot observe anything being broken, but maybe something is under the base portion. How would I be able to tell if the vacuum seal is gone, just looking at the tube?
> 
> Sorry if these are obvious questions, but I am nervous that I will damage my amp if I (carefully) insert the tube and try it out. Do I need to be ready with a fire extinguisher if I go for it :veryevil:




I've used a RCA 6SN7 Greyglass for ages with a loose base. No problems here. Evidently you can fix the loose base by using clear nail polish applied to the join. When it dries it bonds. For mine I don't care. It is okay how it is.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> The loose base is a portent of potential issues down the track. I have recently had a tube go that started off with a slightly loose base, of course rolling it in and out doesn't help.
> 
> If the vacum is affected you usually see white deposits forming at the top of the tube near or above the mica. It will also sound bad and will fail.
> 
> If I suspect a problem with a tube I normally turn on the amp with volume set to zero and listen through my headphones for signs of noise and other nasties, and be ready to switch off immediately if you hear them. Worst case scenario it will blow the amps fuse, the only valves that on failure cause my Amps to blow fusee are usually the rectifiers. Also don't leave it on unsupervised until you are sure it is stable and fully functional.


 
  


badas said:


> I've used a RCA 6SN7 Greyglass for ages with a loose base. No problems here. Evidently you can fix the loose base by using clear nail polish applied to the join. When it dries it bonds. For mine I don't care. It is okay how it is.


 
  
 Good to hear... no visible white deposits forming on the glass, so damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
  
 I gingerly replaced the Tung-Sol 5998 with my loosy-goosy Tung-Sol 6520. So far, so good. Burns bright and without any sound artifacts I can hear (as opposed to the TS 5998 that was picking up RFI w/ a slight hum and occasional buzzing).
  
 My initial reaction: this is a really lush sounding tube, with good power and exceptional bass (like, wow...).
  
 That said, I'm burning it in with new music I've never heard before (FKA twigs "LP1"), so I'll have to follow-up with familiar tracks.
  
 Thanks, guys, for the advice! A long night of listening ahead of me...


----------



## Badas

^

What is a Tung-Sol 6520? It looks 6AS7G type. Are you using it in a 6080 circuit?


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ^
> 
> What is a Tung-Sol 6520? It looks 6AS7G type. Are you using it in a 6080 circuit?


 

 Label on the base (and seller's description) lists this as a Tung Sol 6520, compatible with the 6080 circuit. This tube is also listed (6520) in the compatibility matrix from Woo for the WA2 / WA3 / WA22.
  
 I went out of my way to look for one of these, based on a recommendation I read from another Head-Fi member using this tube with a WA3.


----------



## Krutsch

New Tubes... from Russia w/ Love. Actually shipped from Crimea, but I guess that's back to being Russia, isn't it?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  )
  
 Anyway, the Reflector 6N23P-EV drivers mated with the Tung-Sol 6520...


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Label on the base (and seller's description) lists this as a Tung Sol 6520, compatible with the 6080 circuit. This tube is also listed (6520) in the compatibility matrix from Woo for the WA2 / WA3 / WA22.
> 
> I went out of my way to look for one of these, based on a recommendation I read from another Head-Fi member using this tube with a WA3.


 
  
 Interesting. I missed that one.
  
 Nice looking tube. Do you have a supplier I could try?


----------



## TonyNewman

The Russkie tubes can be underrated. I had 2 pairs of EH Gold 6SN7s that I have had sitting on a bench for months - forgot I had them. Rolled them into the WA6 yesterday and they are not bad tubes at all. Rather good for the price I paid for them (around $40 a pair).
  
 The Sovtek 2A3s are quite good for the money too. Excellent bass.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The Russkie tubes can be underrated. I had 2 pairs of EH Gold 6SN7s that I have had sitting on a bench for months - forgot I had them. Rolled them into the WA6 yesterday and they are not bad tubes at all. Rather good for the price I paid for them (around $40 a pair).
> 
> The Sovtek 2A3s are quite good for the money too. Excellent bass.


 
  
 Yeah. I'm using some Russian power tubes at the moment. 6AS7G type. Mine are labeled 6N13S. These get a bad rap. I don't know why???
  
 They sound good to me and are super clean/quiet. I'm actually going to roll to the Tung-Sol 7236 tonight (massive reputation) to see what gives.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

krutsch said:


> New Tubes... from Russia w/ Love. Actually shipped from Crimea, but I guess that's back to being Russia, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice tubes Krutsch.    +A


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yeah. I'm using some Russian power tubes at the moment. 6AS7G type. Mine are labeled 6N13S. These get a bad rap. I don't know why??? ...


 
  
 Because they aren't made in the USA? There are elements in the hobby that look down on anything that comes from Russia or China as somehow inherently inferior. Sure, some crap comes from those places, but some good stuff also.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Yeah. I'm using some Russian power tubes at the moment. 6AS7G type. Mine are labeled 6N13S. These get a bad rap. I don't know why???
> 
> They sound good to me and are super clean/quiet. I'm actually *going to roll to the Tung-Sol 7236* tonight (massive reputation) to see what gives.


 
  
 Do post your impressions, after giving the TS 7236 a good listen. I love my TS 7236, as well as my Sylvania 7236.
  
 I rolled from those to the TS 5998 (fantastic tonality, but maybe less detailed and with some additional noise?) and then from that to the TS 6520 (which has just incredible upper bass and lower mids - super lush and tubey sounding).
  
 I've been changing the drivers, as well, probably too fast to form a good set of opinions. I put in the new Russian Reflectors, but my immediate reaction was that they are a step down from the Telefunken E188CC, which I like slightly less than the Seimens E88CC (but both are great sounding).
  
 I have one more set of drivers coming (Philips Heerlen E288CC) and possible one more power tube (I'm trying to grab a Western Electric 421a, buy they are stupid expensive).
  
 Then, I am going to circle back and do some critical listening to see what I like best with different combos (a rich matrix WA3 tube shoot-out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Interesting. I missed that one.
> 
> Nice looking tube. *Do you have a supplier I could try?*


 
  
 I wish I did... right now, it's eBay and a lot of time searching - a labor of love.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Do post your impressions, after giving the TS 7236 a good listen. I love my TS 7236, as well as my Sylvania 7236.
> 
> I rolled from those to the TS 5998 (fantastic tonality, but maybe less detailed and with some additional noise?) and then from that to the TS 6520 (which has just incredible upper bass and lower mids - super lush and tubey sounding).
> 
> ...


 
  
  


krutsch said:


> I wish I did... right now, it's eBay and a lot of time searching - a labor of love.


 
  
 Yeah the 421a is the holy grail. Always out of reach.
  
 Interesting comments TS7236 vs TS5998.
  
 7236 has never done anything for me. Mine are very near NOS. I'm going to give them another go and really listen to the bass notes. Many have compared the 7236 to the 5998. So if the 7236 does not impress again I won't bother with the TS5998.
  
 My favorite so far is the Chatham 6AS7G, then Tung-Sol 6AS7G (i'm holding and storing those). However I don't hear much between them and the Russian 6N13. Due to price and availability I just use the Russians.
  
 I have also tried the Tung-Sol / Bendix 6080WB. What a waste of time those were. Very boring.
  
 As for the labour of love. You are lucky. You only have to find one at a time.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> *Yeah the 421a is the holy grail.* Always out of reach.
> 
> Interesting comments TS7236 vs TS5998.
> 
> ...


 
 screw, now I *really* want one... are you sure you aren't a seller on eBay (just kidding...) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On the 5998... I was surprised how much I liked it, but as I mentioned earlier, I am tube rolling in an undisciplined manner, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I was so blown away by the TS 6520, last night, that I was up until 3am listening to the same album over-and-over. Tube amps are like crack, aren't they?


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> screw, now I *really* want one... are you sure you aren't a seller on eBay (just kidding...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No. Not me selling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There is many a forum saying the 421a is king. I think it will always be.
  
 Yes please. Set up "I'm a tube addict anonymous". I need to go now.
 I will admit I have gone to sleep at night thinking of tubes. It use to be the wife.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> krutsch said:
> 
> 
> > screw, now I *really* want one... are you sure you aren't a seller on eBay (just kidding...)
> ...


 
 Looking for some 6SN7 are the VT-231 gray glass pretty much it ,or there are others just as good


----------



## Stereolab42

Regarding fixed loose bases on tubes... I have a couple of those I want to fix. However, I came across this page on George Lenz's site:
  
http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/glue.htm
  
 He is selling some special glue that takes two weeks (!!!) to dry. This site has more details and links to the same page:
  
http://www.jacmusic.com/accesories/Tube-Glue/tube-glue-.html


----------



## Krutsch

stereolab42 said:


> Regarding fixed loose bases on tubes... I have a couple of those I want to fix. However, I came across this page on George Lenz's site:
> 
> http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/glue.htm
> 
> ...


 

 Kudos for sending those links... I was thinking about doing some Googling to look for this info and, like magic, they appear from a fellow Head-Fi'er!


----------



## Porteroso

If you go to a hardware store and ask them, they will have glues designed for high heat applications. Im sure these guys designed a great glue as well.


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here use WA5 and LCD3f - Just wondering if you prefer the LCD3f from the high or low impedance switch?


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here use WA5 and LCD3f - Just wondering if you prefer the LCD3f from the high or low impedance switch?


 

 Hey Paddy,
  
 I found the Cathode Hi Z to be the best setting, don't know if the WA5 has that but that is one down from the highest level of drive which Plate Hi Z.
  
 Best to let you ears to do the deciding, if its too high it sounds too hot, that is to say it compresses the sound stage and is too forward.
  
 Please let us know how you go, interested in your findings.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

WA5 owner here.....an AKG K1000 was the reason I bought the WA5, and have enjoyed this headphone ever since.  
  
 Now that I am getting a pair of Elrog 300B's, I am interested in exploring other headphones.  The plannars seem to be a logical choice.  There are probably not enough WA5 owners yet that have the Elrog's.....in any case, what plannars would you guys suggest as a good match with the WA5?  Thanks.


----------



## isquirrel

stax-i-nox said:


> WA5 owner here.....an AKG K1000 was the reason I bought the WA5, and have enjoyed this headphone ever since.
> 
> Now that I am getting a pair of Elrog 300B's, I am interested in exploring other headphones.  The plannars seem to be a logical choice.  There are probably not enough WA5 owners yet that have the Elrog's.....in any case, what plannars would you guys suggest as a good match with the WA5?  Thanks.


 

 Worth trying both the LCD-3F and the LCD-X the Elrog's are the most revealing 300B I have encountered, so a home audition if you have a friendly dealer would be the best way to experiment. The X give a wider better defined soundstage and a flatter more extended bass response, they are also more sensitive so easier to drive.
  
 The 3F's are the more intimate, warmer and better at resolving macro details, solely depends on your preferences. I spend approx 50/50 listening time with both. Cables make a big difference, I have found its best to stay away from silver (think Nordost) cables and personally find the Cardasd Clear to the most involving while being highly detailed without being fatiguing.


----------



## Khragon

Where to buy these Elrog? how much?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Fririce0003

stax-i-nox said:


> WA5 owner here.....an AKG K1000 was the reason I bought the WA5, and have enjoyed this headphone ever since.
> 
> Now that I am getting a pair of Elrog 300B's, I am interested in exploring other headphones.  The plannars seem to be a logical choice.  There are probably not enough WA5 owners yet that have the Elrog's.....in any case, what plannars would you guys suggest as a good match with the WA5?  Thanks.




 I've tried the Abyss with my WA5, great pairing with the right tubes. I've also heard the LCD-3F with the 234 using 300B's, same tube complement so it should have a similar sound as on the WA5. The LCD-3F is a more intimate sound, the abyss being more expansive and detailed, though it backs off on the emotional side of the music. With the elrog, in the 234 both had plenty of speed and detail as well as weight to the sound. Be careful what rectifiers you pair the elrog with, they're fast tubes which don't pair so well with slow rectifiers.
 I'd say wait until mid year though, the LCD-Z may pair fairly well with the WA5 given it's output power despite it having an output transformer. And the HE1000 looks like an interesting phone too, the large light diaphragm should make for weighty bass, but still retain speed and detail.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> Where to buy these Elrog? how much?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Whereabouts are you? 
  
 Pricing in AUS is $1,450 matched pair.


----------



## Khragon

California, US


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> I've tried the Abyss with my WA5, great pairing with the right tubes. I've also heard the LCD-3F with the 234 using 300B's, same tube complement so it should have a similar sound as on the WA5. The LCD-3F is a more intimate sound, the abyss being more expansive and detailed, though it backs off on the emotional side of the music. With the elrog, in the 234 both had plenty of speed and detail as well as weight to the sound. Be careful what rectifiers you pair the elrog with, they're fast tubes which don't pair so well with slow rectifiers.
> I'd say wait until mid year though, the LCD-Z may pair fairly well with the WA5 given it's output power despite it having an output transformer. And the HE1000 looks like an interesting phone too, the large light diaphragm should make for weighty bass, but still retain speed and detail.


 

 Matt, the Takatsukis have changed and improved out of sight, they now have approx 50 hours on them and are still improving. I am hesitant to say that the Elrog's only pair well with the Mullard metal bases, I am finding that my preference is now leaning towards the Takatsuki 274B as it adds a rich texture to the sound that compliments the Elrog's very nicely. The Brimars also work well with the Elrog's for a more economical solution.
  
 The driver tubes are equally as important, there is IMHO no point in pairing the Elrog's without a top driver tube, the RCA red bases for example are are a mismatch here, the TS bring out the best in both the Elrog's and the Takatsuki's being both fast and rich tonally.
  
 The Psvane 274B replica's are not an optimal match.
  
 Any news on your amps?
  
 Simon


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Matt, the Takatsukis have changed and improved out of sight, they now have approx 50 hours on them and are still improving. I am hesitant to say that the Elrog's only pair well with the Mullard metal bases, I am finding that my preference is now leaning towards the Takatsuki 274B as it adds a rich texture to the sound that compliments the Elrog's very nicely. The Brimars also work well with the Elrog's for a more economical solution.
> 
> The driver tubes are equally as important, there is IMHO no point in pairing the Elrog's without a top driver tube, the RCA red bases for example are are a mismatch here, the TS bring out the best in both the Elrog's and the Takatsuki's being both fast and rich tonally.
> 
> ...




 Really itching to get these amps and the. Get my takatsuki's burnt in now!
 Still no news on them, haven't been able to get down to the shop this week, sent an email yesterday but no reply. My cables are in now at least, just nothing to hook them up to :S


----------



## Badas

fririce0003 said:


> Really itching to get these amps and the. Get my takatsuki's burnt in now!
> Still no news on them, haven't been able to get down to the shop this week, sent an email yesterday but no reply. My cables are in now at least, just nothing to hook them up to :S


 

 I feel your pain.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Really itching to get these amps and the. Get my takatsuki's burnt in now!
> Still no news on them, haven't been able to get down to the shop this week, sent an email yesterday but no reply. My cables are in now at least, just nothing to hook them up to :S


 

 Really painful, I am not going to say what I am sure we are both thinking.... you might be better off going the direction action route and seeing George.


----------



## Badas

WA22 with new brown base Brimar installed. 5Z4GY. I have missed having a classy brown base tube. The last one I had was the Mullard GZ32.
  
 Other tubes. RCA Greyglass 6SN7 (drivers) and Chatham 6AS7G (power).
  


  
 Damn I have to get rid of those Star Wars posters. They are pissing me off.
  

  
 The advantage of running a label company. I can have my own brand labels printed and always put them on the front facing forward.


----------



## Redcarmoose

stax-i-nox said:


> WA5 owner here.....an AKG K1000 was the reason I bought the WA5, and have enjoyed this headphone ever since.
> 
> Now that I am getting a pair of Elrog 300B's, I am interested in exploring other headphones.  The plannars seem to be a logical choice.  There are probably not enough WA5 owners yet that have the Elrog's.....in any case, what plannars would you guys suggest as a good match with the WA5?  Thanks.





W5 LE owner here. Been out of the country for a couple years so I have not tried a lot of new headphones with my W5LE. I liked the HD800s but they had a non-emotional sound that did nothing for my mood. Tried the HD800s both with standard cables and aftermarket premium cables. Also with and without the T-shirt mod.

Something from the new AKG line would be worth experimenting with. There is of course their new flagship. But many models now with a small amount of extra bass as compared to using the W5LE with the K701s. The K701s are nice for classical and any electronic music from new age to IDM.

I personally love the AH-D 7000s and with the correct interconnects and power cords the W5LE is everything I could ask for. Still you have to choose your music as it really shows all the level of recording and mastering process.

Just my 2 cents here.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

I would give www.trueaudiophile.com a try...they are in Portland, Oregon.  http://www.trueaudiophile.com/elrog-300b-vacuum-tube-hand-made-in-germany-on-telefunken-machines/


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Wow...thanks for all the input guys!  I am willing to wait until mid-year for the new plannars etc.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> WA22 with new brown base Brimar installed. 5Z4GY. I have missed having a classy brown base tube. The last one I had was the Mullard GZ32.
> 
> Other tubes. RCA Greyglass 6SN7 (drivers) and Chatham 6AS7G (power).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Beautiful rig and very cool looking tubes (I've already commented on how much I love those gear stands). And, yes, you do need to exorcise the Star Wars posters


----------



## Badas

Is there any advantage to having something like this with my WA22?

 http://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/4-pin-dual-3-pin-adaptor-cable
  
 At the moment I use the 4 pin XLR.


----------



## bfreedma

badas said:


> Is there any advantage to having something like this with my WA22?
> 
> http://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/4-pin-dual-3-pin-adaptor-cable
> 
> At the moment I use the 4 pin XLR.




No advantage.
The relatively recent introduction of the dual 3 pin always seemed to me to be a solution in search of a problem.


----------



## Badas

bfreedma said:


> No advantage.
> The relatively recent introduction of the dual 3 pin always seemed to me to be a solution in search of a problem.


 
  
 Thanks. Good to know.


----------



## reeltime

khragon said:


> California, US


 
  
 Here:
  
 http://www.trueaudiophile.com/elrog-300b-vacuum-tube-hand-made-in-germany-on-telefunken-machines/


----------



## longbowbbs

krutsch said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > WA22 with new brown base Brimar installed. 5Z4GY. I have missed having a classy brown base tube. The last one I had was the Mullard GZ32.
> ...


 
 I'll take those posters!


----------



## Badas

longbowbbs said:


> I'll take those posters!




 My son has eyed them up for his room. Jazz posters would be better suited. I got some nice classy gear then I stick those silly posters behind. 

Just another job on my to do list. :rolleyes:


----------



## Khragon

reeltime said:


> Here:
> 
> http://www.trueaudiophile.com/elrog-300b-vacuum-tube-hand-made-in-germany-on-telefunken-machines/


 

 Thanks, sent them email.  Hopefully I made it in the next shipment.
  
 Anyone with WE300b (vintage or reissued) can chime in on how they sound compared to Elrog and SERP?


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> Thanks, sent them email.  Hopefully I made it in the next shipment.
> 
> Anyone with WE300b (vintage or reissued) can chime in on how they sound compared to Elrog and SERP?


 

 Compared both the Elrog's and the WE early 40's grey plates. The WE has an incredible mid range euphonic richness that is highly seductive, however where the Elrog really shines and in my opinion is the better tube is the stunning realism throughout the frequency spectrum. It is a very well balanced tube, a little shouty and forward when new however this is normal and settles down after the 50 hour mark, they really sound the their best around the 80-100 mark. I am currently burning in my 2nd pair of Elrog's.
  
 The WE's do not have the bottom end extension and weight of the Elrog's neither do they have the mid range immiediacy and or the high end sparkle. In a probably balanced setup with the right driver tubes and rectifiers the Elrog's in my subjective opinion are the better tube. They too have a rich midrange but it is not of the syrupy nature, there is no particular emphasis on any frequency range. This is a good thing. They do not try and sound like a typical 300B - talking with the distributor who is close to Klauss it seems they were never designed with that in mind. He designed and built the best sounding tube possible, only the 4 pin layout is the same and the similarities with other 300B's end there.
  
 There are enough 'replica's' on the market to satisfy anyone looking for that sound. In that respect the SERP's and the KR 300 B Balloon's are probably the best 'replica's' in production, the SERP's have a rich tonal sound and strong bass versus the KR's which have a slightly drier presentation however the KR's have better pitch definition and noticeably more air.
  
 I am hesitant to cataegrise the Takatsuki 300B at this time as mine only have 45-50 hours on them and I am waiting for the 120 hour mark before I form strong opinions on them as the sound has changed dramatically (for the better) over the past 2 weeks. I noticed a big change around the 40 hour mark so I expect them to improve even more. They really need to paired with the matching 274B rectifier as the pair have clearly been voiced the same. That is to say they have incredible texture and detail throughout the entire frequency range, the bass performance is outstanding and has slightly more weight than the Elrog's. 
  
 In summary and please bear in mind that ideally both the Takatsuki's and the Elrog's need to be critically assessed at the 120 - 150 hour mark when the sound has fully stabilised - hand on heart I would say you cannot go wrong with either tube. They both offer a sound quality that is way beyond any other 300B I have heard and in my opinion are both superior to the WE. Finally we have viable current production alternatives.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Great to hear!......thanks for your input! .........now the question...what rectifier goes best with the Elrog 300B?  I suspect what ever rectifier goes with the Elrog in your WA 234, would work equally well in the WA5?...Takatsuki?...... It would be nice to find a rectifier that did not cost an arm and a leg... Prob as more WA5 owners get the Elrog's, we will have a better idea what works well....maybe Elrog will eventually be coming out with a 5u4g or substitute?? ))


----------



## Porteroso

stax-i-nox said:


> Great to hear!......thanks for your input! .........now the question...what rectifier goes best with the Elrog 300B?  I suspect what ever rectifier goes with the Elrog in your WA 234, would work equally well in the WA5?...Takatsuki?...... It would be nice to find a rectifier that did not cost an arm and a leg... Prob as more WA5 owners get the Elrog's, we will have a better idea what works well....maybe Elrog will eventually be coming out with a 5u4g or substitute?? ))


 
 He and a fellow listener did a pretty good writeup just a few pages back, it started with this post.
  


fririce0003 said:


> ... I don't want to quote the whole thing, click on the thingy to the right of fririce's name, and read that page, and the page afterwards too.


----------



## reeltime

stax-i-nox said:


> Great to hear!......thanks for your input! .........now the question...what rectifier goes best with the Elrog 300B?  I suspect what ever rectifier goes with the Elrog in your WA 234, would work equally well in the WA5?...Takatsuki?...... It would be nice to find a rectifier that did not cost an arm and a leg... Prob as more WA5 owners get the Elrog's, we will have a better idea what works well....maybe Elrog will eventually be coming out with a 5u4g or substitute?? ))


 
  
 Here's what I know-- but I don't have the tube stock others here have:
  
 Best I've heard so far is the "Mighty 596".  But I'm working on picking up some GZ34s, which were my all-time favorite on the WA6.  Hard to find a matching pair. 
  
 Tubes which were inferior to the 596: Tung Sol 5U4G and the EML Mesh 5U4G.  
  
 I'm not going to buy the Takatsuki rectifiers.  Too expensive.


----------



## Khragon

Put in an order for a pair of Elrog.  
 Thanks guys, glad to hear Elrog is on par with/better than WE300b, I am itching to bite the bullet and buy a WE300b, but I think ordering the Elrog will satisfy this itch, for now *sign*.
 Thanks for the tip on Fririce003 post, I'll search for it.
  
 I'm going to be pairing the Elrog with TS 6SN7 and 6F8G Round plate, and CV1863 Brimar (on the way from the UK).


----------



## Porteroso

You dont have to search, whenever something is quoted, there is a green button beside their name. Click it, and it will take you to page that the post is from.

On the subject of driver tubes, I will have some ts rp in soon, and I already have the rca grey glass, and the national union 6F8G. I will say, the NU are amazing. I do not expect that the ts will actually beat them, but who knows. I wonder how many have actually compared the NU to the TS. It is understood that the TS are better, but in a 6F8G comparison I found, the guy gave a clear edge to the NU. I cannot wait to hear for myself.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ....
> 
> In summary and please bear in mind that ideally both the Takatsuki's and the Elrog's need to be critically assessed at the 120 - 150 hour mark when the sound has fully stabilised - hand on heart I would say you cannot go wrong with either tube. They both offer a sound quality that is way beyond any other 300B I have heard and in my opinion are both superior to the WE._* Finally we have viable current production alternatives.*_


 
  
 If only someone could do the same for 6SN7s. I have tried just about every available new production 6SN7 out there. All of them come with significant flaws.
  
 An Elrog 6SN7? I can dream the dream


----------



## Stereolab42

porteroso said:


> You dont have to search, whenever something is quoted, there is a green button beside their name. Click it, and it will take you to page that the post is from.
> 
> On the subject of driver tubes, I will have some ts rp in soon, and I already have the rca grey glass, and the national union 6F8G. I will say, the NU are amazing. I do not expect that the ts will actually beat them, but who knows. I wonder how many have actually compared the NU to the TS. It is understood that the TS are better, but in a 6F8G comparison I found, the guy gave a clear edge to the NU. I cannot wait to hear for myself.


 
  
 I have TS FP VT99's in my WA5 right now and they are phenomenal, easily the equal of any other driver tubes I own (including TS RP VT99's, WWII RCAs of various types, and so on). Buying eight of them blind from that dude in Italy who got them NOS NIB from a NATO auction was one of my smarter purchases.


----------



## isquirrel

stax-i-nox said:


> Great to hear!......thanks for your input! .........now the question...what rectifier goes best with the Elrog 300B?  I suspect what ever rectifier goes with the Elrog in your WA 234, would work equally well in the WA5?...Takatsuki?...... It would be nice to find a rectifier that did not cost an arm and a leg... Prob as more WA5 owners get the Elrog's, we will have a better idea what works well....maybe Elrog will eventually be coming out with a 5u4g or substitute?? ))


 

 Rectifiers in order of my personal preference are: 
  
 No 1 Takatsuki 274B - heavily leaning towards this ATM due to better bass extension and texture, still needs more hours
 No 2 However could be No 1 if you are looking for speed and a cool, minty euphony, Mullard metal base 1956 Holland GZ34 and your music tastes lean towards rock/metal etc
 No 3 Brimar 5Z4G (kudos to Badas and Tony N for that one) or Mullard 1950's black base GZ34, my preference is the Brimar, if you take cost into consideration its a no brainer
  
 I can safely state that Elrog will not be producing a rectifier for at least 18 months - I have asked..... They need to put there glass requirements in one year for the following years production, so its not even on the drawing board. However if we all continue to strongly encourage it maybe that may give them the motivation.
  
 While there are at it they can build a 6SN7 driver if I step into entirely wishful thinking


----------



## isquirrel

Please everyone take into account that when Matt and I did the 300B comparison it was with brand new out of the box Takatsukis both 300B's and 274B's.
  
 As I have said there have been major changes since then and I have to eat my words now, when I said the the Takatsuki 274B was NOT a good match for the Elrog's - I retract that statement and have learn't the lesson not to be too hasty in posting impressions - especially with new tubes.
  
 Sorry if we gave people the wrong impression.
  
 I had a minor issue with an Elrog (user error) so I am back to burning in a new pair atm. I am logging hours so when they all get to the same running time and stabilise I will post what should be a fair comparison between the WE's, Takatuski's and Elrog's.
  
 Simon


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Rectifiers in order of my personal preference are:
> 
> No 1 Takatsuki 274B - heavily leaning towards this ATM due to better bass extension and texture, still needs more hours
> No 2 However could be No 1 if you are looking for speed and a cool, minty euphony, Mullard metal base 1956 Holland GZ34 and your music tastes lean towards rock/metal etc
> ...


 
  
 The fact the Brimar gets close floors me. I just purchased my original out of curiosity. To be honest I just got it in because the bullet holes looked interesting and it was a reputable brand from a good era. I wasn't expecting much, other than maybe it was Mullard GZ32 sounding.
  
 When I stuck it in my amp tho I knew it was something special.


----------



## TonyNewman

Any and all feedback on there tubes appreciated - please keep em coming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tube burn in can a long journey with dips and turns along the way - I would hope everyone gets that.


----------



## isquirrel

While I am being a Penitent man - I should also add that Tony is the star who found the Elrog's. Up until he mentioned them I had no idea that they even existed ! The Elrog's and the Brimars have been the star finds of 2015 so far.
  
 That why I love this community - we all share our experience willingly.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> While I am being a Penitent man - I should also add that Tony is the star who found the Elrog's. Up until he mentioned them I had no idea that they even existed ! The Elrog's and the Brimars have been the star finds of 2015 so far.
> 
> *That why I love this community - we all share our experience willingly.*


 
  
 The bloody internet is amazing. Without it my gear would be hopeless.
  
 Being into Home Theater the amount of tips, tricks and explanations I have been given by the internet is incredible. My room would suck if I had to rely on badly written manuals only.
  
 So thanks to everyone who has helped.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> While I am being a Penitent man - I should also add that Tony is the star who found the Elrog's. Up until he mentioned them I had no idea that they even existed ! The Elrog's and the Brimars have been the star finds of 2015 so far.
> 
> That why I love this community - we all share our experience willingly.


 
  
 Can't take much credit for that - just parroting some info picked up elsewhere.
  
 I'm glad they are developing into such great tubes - the world needs more high end new production options.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> If only someone could do the same for 6SN7s. I have tried just about every available new production 6SN7 out there. All of them come with significant flaws.
> 
> An Elrog 6SN7? I can dream the dream :blink:


I'm with you there my friend. Modern production 6SN7's, including my own Sophia Electric's, are in many ways not as sonically rich as their vintage counterparts. Though I do have several hundred hours on my SE's and I believe their strength is in the quality of their construction. I must admit that I get a rush when I put a 50+ year old tube in my WA6, and it works.


----------



## Krutsch

Anyway, in other news on the low end of the scale... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am finished listening to the Russian Reflector 6N23P-EV driver tubes. Functionally correct, but after 20 hours of listening, I don't see these being a contender. I would put them at parity with the Electro-Harmonix 6922 that shipped with the WA3.
  
 Back to the Siemens E88CC with the Tung-Sol 6520 to cleanse my palette; I have another drive set coming in the mail this week, and am hoping to snag a WE 421a; then the real testing begins.
  
 If I had to pick the best pairing, so far with the WA3, it would be the Siemens E88CCs or Telefunken E188CC, with the TS 5998 (although I need to re-listen, because the current TS 6520 is just really sweet sounding).
  
 Apologies in advance, if you are in recovery, but I am out of Rye Whisky and Scotch, so tonight it's Polish Potato Vodka Martinis ... 
  


 Does this photo count a night shot of audio glass?


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> I'm with you there my friend. Modern production 6SN7's, including my own Sophia Electric's, are in many ways not as sonically rich as their vintage counterparts. Though I do have several hundred hours on my SE's and I believe their strength is in the quality of their construction. I must admit that I get a rush when I put a 50+ year old tube in my WA6, and it works.


 
  
 I have the Sophia Electric and the TJ Full Music versions of the same tube - both give a subtle level of harshness that grates on me after a while.
  
 The Psvane T2 CV-181s are about the best new production 6SN7 equivalent I have found so far, great detail and extension, but they are so dry that they also can tend to harshness.
  
 Either are fine for amping floorstanders, but for HeadFi the lingering harshness comes through.
  
 Someone, somewhere must be capable of matching the TS RP (or bettering it)? The 6SN7 tubes are used in so many amps that the market must be huge.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> I have the Sophia Electric and the TJ Full Music versions of the same tube - both give a subtle level of harshness that grates on me after a while.
> 
> The Psvane T2 CV-181s are about the best new production 6SN7 equivalent I have found so far, great detail and extension, but they are so dry that they also can tend to harshness.
> 
> Someone, somewhere must be capable of matching the TS RP (or bettering it)? The 6SN7 tubes are used in so many amps that the market must be huge.


It must be because I use a USAF 596 in my WA6 that I don't hear the harshness in the SE 6SN7 tubes that you do, or a combination of other factors, hp's, DAC, cables(boy do I love a good "you can't hear any difference in cables argument"), music choices et al. I'll have to give the Psvanes a try. Thanks


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> It must be because I use a USAF 596 in my WA6


 
 +1


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> It must be because I use a USAF 596 in my WA6 that I don't hear the harshness in the SE 6SN7 tubes that you do, or a combination of other factors, hp's, DAC, cables(boy do I love a good "you can't hear any difference in cables argument"), music choices et al. I'll have to give the Psvanes a try. Thanks


 
  
 I did some 6SN7 tube rolling in my WA6 using the Psvane WE274B replica rectifier. This is a very good rectifier - not quite as good as the Brimar, but it is also warmer and has a darker tone.
  
 It certainly helps - the dryness is still there, but it doesn't cross the line into harshness with the Psvane T2 CV-181s as the Brimar does. A better match.
  
 I then tried using the Mullard GZ32 - the warmest rectifier I have. At the cost of some detail and extension (where is my bass?) the dryness is gone - but the price in bass and detail is too much for my tastes - prefer the replica with the Psvane T2s so the music retains some low end punch.
  
 Still an inferior combination to the RCA 6SN7s (warmish drivers) with the Brimar rectifier (neutral to cool rectifier with stunning detail and extension).
  
 If someone could make a 6SN7 that combined the detail and extension of PSvane T2s with some warmth it would be a big winner.
  
 EDIT - just to be a little perverse, I plugged in the RCA 6SN7s drivers with the Psvane replica WE274B. That is Darth Vader dark!! Not unpleasant at all, but it is perhaps getting into a thick sound at times and detail takes a small hit. If you like your music darker than dark with strong bass this might be a good combination worth trying. Treble is still there, it just takes a back seat to everything else. Not my cup of tea, but some might like it. YMMV.
  
 The Brimar with the RCAs is the best I have heard so far from my WA6 (or WA5 for that matter - with SERPs in the WA5). Maybe one day the Elrog 300Bs... humans only need 1 kidney, right?


----------



## isquirrel

Cheapest Tung Sol's I could find on eBay right now
  
 PAIR VT231 - NOS -  TUNG SOL 6SN7 - 1940's - 6SN7GT TUNGSOL http://r.ebay.com/nT4Z7N


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Cheapest Tung Sol's I could find on eBay right now
> 
> PAIR VT231 - NOS -  TUNG SOL 6SN7 - 1940's - 6SN7GT TUNGSOL http://r.ebay.com/nT4Z7N


 
  
 JHC!! Nearly $500 for top tier 6SN7s. This is getting a little nuts


----------



## isquirrel

This will give you a heart attack then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 MP of Western Electric 300B Tube Double Square Getter NOS NIB Date code: 6539 http://r.ebay.com/6XX9mN


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> This will give you a heart attack then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I saw that listing yesterday... wow.


----------



## Porteroso

Just to make you all jealous, I'm picking up 5 total TS rp in 6F8G for 150, all NOS. I've been harping on 6F8G for a while now, and these are the last, so sorry, but I totally grabbed them all. I also have the RCA with the Brimar in the WA6, and they are good. The National Union simply beat them in detail/transparency (and everything really), but then, the RCA are readily available, and they do give you this bass-centric, lush, tubey sound. After I get over the shock of these NU tubes, which I heard for the first time yesterday, I might go back to the RCA just because of availability.
  
 Also going to roll Raytheons in 6F8G, and they are supposedly like the RCA, just a bit inferior. Will report back. I'll essentially have all the great 6F8G, and the only thing you can find in 6SN7, additionally, is the red base RCA. I will just have to wait for a while to hear those.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> This will give you a heart attack then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nah - WE vintage prices for 300Bs and rectifiers don't cause me to mess my trousers for the very good reason that we have excellent alternatives for (relatively) sane prices.
  
 300Bs - Elrogs / Takatsukis - as good as or better in many ways than the vintage WE300B. Others out there that are very, very good (such as the SERPs and several others).
  
 Rectifiers - Brimars / Psvane WE274B replicas. Not quite a match for the WE422A, but very, very good tubes at reasonable prices (Brimar is almost a give away at the moment).
  
 6SN7 situation is what makes me want to put a gun to my head and pull the trigger. Sadly lacking in the new production department - have not found one yet that combines detail + extension + warmth.


----------



## kokushu

Have a chance to get a tung sol bgrp.  Or should I wait and get either elrog or takatsuki 300b.  My current line up for my WA 5 is eml 300b mesh, tung sol 6f8g bgrp (oval mica), brimar 5z4g.  Which one is more of a worthwhile upgrade?  I been wanting to do a write up for the eml 300b mesh but I have not put in the hours where I feel its been burn in to indicate it sound.  Any help with the upgrade situation guys?


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> Just to make you all jealous, I'm picking up 5 total TS rp in 6F8G for 150, all NOS. I've been harping on 6F8G for a while now, and these are the last, so sorry, but I totally grabbed them all. I also have the RCA with the Brimar in the WA6, and they are good. The National Union simply beat them in detail/transparency (and everything really), but then, the RCA are readily available, and they do give you this bass-centric, lush, tubey sound. After I get over the shock of these NU tubes, which I heard for the first time yesterday, I might go back to the RCA just because of availability.
> 
> Also going to roll Raytheons in 6F8G, and they are supposedly like the RCA, just a bit inferior. Will report back. I'll essentially have all the great 6F8G, and the only thing you can find in 6SN7, additionally, is the red base RCA. I will just have to wait for a while to hear those.


 
  
 You have convinced me - I have order a pair of national union 6F8G and the adapters. Looking forward to trying this in the WA6 and WA5.


----------



## Moon2014

tonynewman said:


> You have convinced me - I have order a pair of national union 6F8G and the adapters. Looking forward to trying this in the WA6 and WA5.




Very nice looking Tube, where you order the Tube and the Adapter? I only found the Tube from an Italian guy where I already bought som Tubes but he have only one in Stock.

I am so excited to get MY WA5, a minutes ago it arrived to my nearest FedEx Location but I think they will deliver it tommorow.


----------



## Moon2014

isquirrel said:


> Cheapest Tung Sol's I could find on eBay right now
> 
> PAIR VT231 - NOS -  TUNG SOL 6SN7 - 1940's - 6SN7GT TUNGSOL http://r.ebay.com/nT4Z7N




Is this in your opinion the "Ultimate" 6SN7 driver Tube?

Thanks


----------



## Porteroso

I really do think that until a significant number of people get 6F8G adapters, the 6F8G tubes will stay down in cost. Really, the VT-99 ones are what you want, just like VT-231 in 6SN7. I was reading up on them, and skylab was saying a few years ago that 6F8G was a great-kept secret that he was hesitant to talk about, lest the tubes rise in price. The idea that I'm getting matched ts rp pairs for 50 bucks each, when other people are paying literally 10x that price, it's insane. I'm not going to say that my WA6 looks super aesthetic, because it doesn't, but there's a certain flair of old-school to stacking adapters like I am.
  
 In other news, tonight was a great night of music. Enjoyed some Ardbeg, some great tea, and great music. I'm warm, I'm comfy, and life does not get much better.
  
 edit: One thing tonight has taught me is that when I'm really hearing things like they were recorded, it's so much easier to explore music. I'm exploring genres that I normally don't listen to, and there is some great stuff in all of them. Much like when I go hear music live, it is often all too easy to fall in love with a band, or a singer, or a soloist. Too often, when you aren't immersed, you can get distracted by all the things gone wrong, but when you're immersed, the things gone wrong only add to the experience. That's what all this is about, anyways.


----------



## isquirrel

moon2014 said:


> Is this in your opinion the "Ultimate" 6SN7 driver Tube?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Yep, they are my pick, warmth - extension and detail they do everything superbly. Seems to be the direction we are all looking for here. The way I look at it is I buy them whenever I can get a reasonable price on them and know they will be worth double in a few years. So its a good investment as well.
  
 When I think of the how the value of Mullard Metal bases has risen form 250 US a tube to $800 each for a matched pair now in just 3 years. Just watch the Brimar's rocket up in value.
  
 @ Porteroso
  
 I hear the same thing, the 6F8G may even have a slight advantage over the 6SN7, I admit I don't like the look of the adapters but I may have to get over that.


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> Very nice looking Tube, where you order the Tube and the Adapter? ...


 
  
 Go to Ebay and enter "6F8G" in the search term and all will be revealed


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> ...
> Also going to roll Raytheons in 6F8G, and they are supposedly like the RCA, just a bit inferior. Will report back. I'll essentially have all the great 6F8G, and the only thing you can find in 6SN7, additionally, is the red base RCA. I will just have to wait for a while to hear those.


 
  
 Apologies for not mentioning this earlier - I have a set of 50s Raytheons in 6SN7GTB and they suck hard. Nowhere near as good as RCA. Muddy and microphonic as a mofo.
  
 The Raytheon in 6F8G might be a totally different animal from the 6SN7GTB, of course. There is also a chance that I just got lucky with a "super suckarse" pair of Raytheons as well.
  
 EDIT - I am 90% sure these are one of the sets of diabolical tubes that I ordered direct from Woo Audio before I learned that almost any other source of tubes on planet Earth was a better bet. My dead grandmother could knit a better sounding set of 6SN7s than these glass encased audio turds from Raytheon. I think these are just about the worst sounding driver tube I have ever tried - have to put them into the WA6 this weekend just to remind myself what extreme suck really sounds like.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Apologies for not mentioning this earlier - I have a set of 50s Raytheons in 6SN7GTB and they suck hard. Nowhere near as good as RCA. Muddy and microphonic as a mofo.
> 
> The Raytheon in 6F8G might be a totally different animal from the 6SN7GTB, of course. There is also a chance that I just got lucky with a "super suckarse" pair of Raytheons as well.
> 
> EDIT - I am 90% sure these are one of the sets of diabolical tubes that I ordered direct from Woo Audio before I learned that almost any other source of tubes on planet Earth was a better bet. My dead grandmother could knit a better sounding set of 6SN7s than these glass encased audio turds from Raytheon. I think these are just about the worst sounding driver tube I have ever tried - have to put them into the WA6 this weekend just to remind myself what extreme suck really sounds like.


Hey Tony, I bought a pair of those Raytheons too. Now I don't feel so bad.


----------



## Moon2014

Today I received my WA5 one day earlier then estimated  WoW such a beautiful Amp.
First I would like to burn in the amp with the stock Tubes and then I will try the SERPs with the Brimar Rectifier and Cossor 6SN7GT from the 1950's I am looking forward 

How many Hours need the WA5 for burning in? And Woo Audio recommended to use the Amp not longer then 10 Hours per Session how long it need for cooling down?

I also got the 6SN7 adaptors for my WA6 and the octal Tube saver. At the moment I am listening to the Psvane 274B Replica and the Psvane CV181 T2's ...it Sounds not so good I really hope that the T2's dont need such a long time for burning in as the Replica


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Hey Tony, I bought a pair of those Raytheons too. Now I don't feel so bad.


 
  
 I found it fun to compare the performance of these abominations with the absurd marketing spiel on the Woo website saying that they would transport you to audio nirvana, halt global warming and triple the girth of your johnson. It did none of those things, unfortunately.


----------



## TonyNewman

moon2014 said:


> Today I received my WA5 one day earlier then estimated
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Both the replica WE274Bs and the T2s need 200+ hours, and they will suck quite a bit until then unfortunately. Harsh and nasty - can't be helped until they are burned in.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> I found it fun to compare the performance of these abominations with the absurd marketing spiel on the Woo website saying that they would transport you to audio nirvana, halt global warming and triple the girth of your johnson. It did none of those things, unfortunately.


So Tony what your saying is I need a pair of Psvane CV181 T2's? I personally like the certitude, and the warranty, of purchasing a new pair of tubes versus the risk of getting a dud set of vintage NOS 6SN7's. Am I wrong in that a lot of tubes are expensive because they're rare and not because they're especially great sounding? It seems like a couple people on fleaBay are making bank by selling rare, as in very old, tubes to head-fi members with upgrade-itis.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> So Tony what your saying is I need a pair of Psvane CV181 T2's? I personally like the certitude, and the warranty, of purchasing a new pair of tubes versus the risk of getting a dud set of vintage NOS 6SN7's. Am I wrong in that a lot of tubes are expensive because they're rare and not because they're especially great sounding? It seems like a couple people on fleaBay are making bank by selling rare, as in very old, tubes to head-fi members with upgrade-itis.


 
  
 Maybe - the Psvanes are the best new production 6SN7 equivalent I have found, but they still are far from perfect.
  
 They have stunning detail and extension and are very well balanced. Fantastic tubes up to this point - but now the bad news - they lack any sort of warmth whatsoever. Very dry that can become harshness with the wrong pairing.
  
 For example, when paired with the Psvane WE274B replica in the WA6 (and SERPs in the WA5) they perform quite well. The replica is quite a warm and dark rectifier. The dryness is there, but is OK. Pairing them with a more neutral rectifier like the Brimar, the dryness of the CV181s becomes harshness and rather unpleasant. That doesn't work at all.
  
 Best combination I have found so far is the Brimar rectifier with RCA drivers. This works very well, and won't break the bank.
  
 Drivers are now my biggest tube headache. Nothing in new production that I have found has a good combination of detail, extension, balance and warmth. The RCA is an affordable warm-ish compromise that pairs well with the cool to neutral Brimars.
  
 Lots of good options out there for 300Bs and rectifiers, not so much for 6SN7s.


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> Anyway, in other news on the low end of the scale...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Probably not a lot of WA3 owners on this thread, but I'm going to keep posting my observations anyway (if nothing else, it's note taking for me).
  
 I removed the Tung-Sol 6520 and the Russian Reflectors this morning, and switched back to the Siemens E88CCs and the Tung-Sol 5998. Let them warm up for 30 minutes and started playing FKA twigs "LP1" (really rich bass and vocals). I immediately noticed some additional detail, but that magic tonality I was really enjoying is missing. Crap... ah, what was the change, the power or the driver tubes?
  
 I think the mistake I've made was changing power and drivers at once. Tonight, I will put the TS 6520 back in and see what that does on its own. I can see this process is going to take some time.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Apologies in advance, if you are in recovery, but I am out of Rye Whisky and Scotch, so tonight it's Polish Potato Vodka Martinis ...
> 
> 
> 
> Does this photo count a night shot of audio glass?


 
  
 Yes it does. Great pic.


tonynewman said:


> You have convinced me - I have order a pair of national union 6F8G and the adapters. Looking forward to trying this in the WA6 and WA5.


 
  





 You are going to 6F8G. That is going to be interesting. I can't wait to hear your thoughts.


----------



## magiccabbage

badas said:


> Yes it does. Great pic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I also have a TS 6f8g pair on the way - gonna pair those with the brimars and EML 300b. I can't wait to hear the changes in sound. Hopefully they will bring the LCD3f more clarity
  
 At the moment I only have stock WA5 tubes plus brimars  -  surely the EML's and TS 6f8g will make a huge difference over the stock.


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> ...
> At the moment I only have stock WA5 tubes plus brimars  -  surely the EML's and TS 6f8g will make a huge difference over the stock.


 
  
 Hell yes. You are repalcing sucky stock tubes with some very nice glass. You should hear a _*stunning *_change in the SQ once burn in is complete.
  
 Happy listening and welcome to the WA5 club


----------



## Angelbelow

moon2014 said:


> Today I received my WA5 one day earlier then estimated
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I asked a similar question when I first got my WA5. Everyone advised me to switch out the stocks ones so I ended up changing out the stock tubes pretty quickly (2 weeks in). I still don't really have a 300b tube but love the sound so far. I'm almost at the point of being skeptic that it could get any better if I replace the 300bs.
  
 Tubes used: Rectifer tube: Brimars and Driver tubes: GE 6sn7
  
 Also, good thing I changed them out because I discovered that my 6sn7 bad boys that I bought were no good. One of the tubes didn't work. So I would recommend trying out all the tubes just to make sure they work.


----------



## TonyNewman

angelbelow said:


> ...I'm almost at the point of being skeptic that it could get any better if I replace the 300bs...


 
  
 That's one of the best things about the WA5 - it scales wonderfully well with better glass.
  
 Put better tubes in it and the SQ just keeps improving. If there is a limit I am yet to find it.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> That's one of the best things about the WA5 - it scales wonderfully well with better glass.
> 
> Put better tubes in it and the SQ just keeps improving. If there is a limit I am yet to find it.


 

 That is one strange thing I have found with the WA22.
  
 Rectifiers: make huge differences to the sound. The biggest difference.
  
 Drivers: make small changes. Kinda like a small tweak to the sound signature.
  
 Power tubes: Do bugger all. I have so many different types of power tubes and there is slight changes but nothing to get excited about. It is almost like you can stick any driver tube in and be done. That could be a good and bad thing. Good as you can use anything. Bad is you want to add change. I'm looking for that last 5% bass response.
  
 I have tried these in 6080's. GE, Brimar, Bendix and Tung-Sol 7236. All are very dull. 7236 is the best with the best bass response.
  
 These are the 6AS7G's that I have tried. Winged C 6N13, Chatham, Tung-Sol, Sylvania, Raytheon and RCA. These are better than 6080 or 7236 (more dynamic). Best is Chatham. But the difference between the best and worst in my mind is 1-2%. That's all.
  
 It is almost like there is a limiting filter on the power circuit of the WA22.
  
 I haven't tried the legendary Tung-Sol 5998. I would like to but the price at $170 a pair is out of my reach.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> That is one strange thing I have found with the WA22.
> 
> Rectifiers: make huge differences to the sound. The biggest difference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting.
  
 WA5 is very different with the 300B power tubes. I can hear the difference between the Psvane 300B and SERPs - even though they are quite similar tubes. The EATs are totally different and it is immediately obvious when they are installed.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Interesting.
> 
> WA5 is very different with the 300B power tubes. I can hear the difference between the Psvane 300B and SERPs - even though they are quite similar tubes. The EATs are totally different and it is immediately obvious when they are installed.


 

  When I listen to your WA5 I hear a big difference in you bass impact. The WA22 seems veiled in comparison.
  
 Could it be Transformer related? The Transformers on your WA5 are far larger.
  
 or maybe it is just the type of tube used. 300B greater than 6080/6AS7G????


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> When I listen to your WA5 I hear a big difference in you bass impact. The WA22 seems veiled in comparison.
> 
> Could it be Transformer related? The Transformers on your WA5 are far larger.
> 
> or maybe it is just the type of tube used. 300B greater than 6080/6AS7G????


 
  
 I'm guessing more tube than amp?
  
 I got crap bass on my WA5 until I started using the Psvane WE274B replica rectifier. The Brimars then took this up a notch with better bass definition (replicas could get a bit muddy down low). My drivers and 300Bs already had good bass extension - they were just being starved by the poor rectifiers I was using.
  
 There must be some flavours of 6080 etc that do great bass?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I'm guessing more tube than amp?
> 
> I got crap bass on my WA5 until I started using the Psvane WE274B replica rectifier. The Brimars then took this up a notch with better bass definition (replicas could get a bit muddy down low). My drivers and 300Bs already had good bass extension - they were just being starved by the poor rectifiers I was using.
> 
> *There must be some flavours of 6080 etc that do great bass?*


 
 Not that I have found. The different flavours of 6080 really don't change the sound signature at all. Even stock tubes sound the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Maybe one day I will bite the bullet and get the 5998. It has a bass reputation.
  
 Just not now. Too broke. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What worries me tho is the 7236 was mentioned as bass tube and sounded the same also. So if I get the 5998 it could also sound like stock tubes. That would be a waste.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Not that I have found. The different flavours of 6080 really don't change the sound signature at all. Even stock tubes sound the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's all a bit suck. It would be a real pity for the WA22 to fall over on bass reproduction.
  
 Any input from other WA22 owners? I think DubstepGirl used to own a WA22 and might be able to throw an opinion into this?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> That's all a bit suck. *It would be a real pity for the WA22 to fall over on bass reproduction.*
> 
> Any input from other WA22 owners? I think DubstepGirl used to own a WA22 and might be able to throw an opinion into this?


 
  
 Oh, It doesn't suck on bass response. Far from it. It is just not a WA5.
  
 I shouldn't have listened to your WA5. I heard what I was missing.
  
 When you take a listen to my WA22 you will probably look at it as a snotty hanky. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You may be too use to your bass machine.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Oh, It doesn't suck on bass response. Far from it. It is just not a WA5.
> 
> I shouldn't have listened to your WA5. I heard what I was missing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not at all convinced it is your amp. I get good bass thump out of my WA6 / HD600 rig with the right tube combinations. Psvane T2s with the replica WE274B, or the Brimar with the RCAs - either setup will give strong thumping bass and good overall SQ. Not the WA5 quality or quantity of bass, but not miles away either.
  
 Other thing to consider is that I had the modded HE6 rigged up to the WA5 K1K output. The HE6 excels at good strong bass when well driven.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I'm not at all convinced it is your amp. I get good bass thump out of my WA6 / HD600 rig with the right tube combinations. Psvane T2s with the replica WE274B, or the Brimar with the RCAs - either setup will give strong thumping bass and good overall SQ. Not the WA5 quality or quantity of bass, but not miles away either.
> 
> Other thing to consider is that I had the modded HE6 rigged up to the WA5 K1K output. The HE6 excels at good strong bass when well driven.


 
  
 Modded HE6. Yes that has occurred to me. Headphone difference rather than amp.
  
 My point was tho the WA22 does not respond much to power tube changes. I have tried 10 different variants. If I was going to guess the % of change between them I would put it a 2% difference between the worst and best. Also that change is heard in pacing not frequency. It is really weird but power tube replacement don't change the WA22 sound.


----------



## magiccabbage

badas said:


> Oh, It doesn't suck on bass response. Far from it. It is just not a WA5.
> 
> I shouldn't have listened to your WA5. I heard what I was missing.
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't stop searching for the right tube combo for your WA22 - I know at least one guy who preferred the WA22 over the WA5...... Alrainbow. I'd say with the right tubes it would be excellent.


----------



## Badas

magiccabbage said:


> I wouldn't stop searching for the right tube combo for your WA22 - I know at least one guy who preferred the WA22 over the WA5...... Alrainbow. *I'd say with the right tubes it would be excellent. *


 
  
 I'm sure of it. "cough" expensive 5998 "cough".
  
 The WA22 rocks. Don't get me wrong. I just shouldn't have listen to the WA5 and modded HE6. That combo is a dream Tony.
  
 I thought at one stage it could be a LCD3 limitation then I stuck on the deep bass EQ from the iPod. Nope the headphones can thump when told to.
  
 Sometimes I wonder about using EQ to just tailor that last difference in sound rather than searching for tubes.
  
 Does anyone know of a little device that takes XLR in and outputs and performs just basic tone controls (say treble, mid and bass) to the signal?


----------



## Porteroso

In the wa6, rectifier is also by far the biggest difference maker. With the baby tubes, it does all meld together a bit until you get the best tubes. I had a bunch of 6de7 and could not distinguish between them. And even with what I have now, the rectifier is still much more important than the others.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> In the wa6, rectifier is also by far the biggest difference maker. With the baby tubes, it does all meld together a bit until you get the best tubes. I had a bunch of 6de7 and could not distinguish between them. And even with what I have now, the rectifier is still much more important than the others.


 
 I found that both with the WA6, the rectifier and driver/power tubes make a difference…but the driver/power tubes made more of a difference.


----------



## Porteroso

joseph69 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > In the wa6, rectifier is also by far the biggest difference maker. With the baby tubes, it does all meld together a bit until you get the best tubes. I had a bunch of 6de7 and could not distinguish between them. And even with what I have now, the rectifier is still much more important than the others.
> ...


 
 You might be right, and it may be that my normal rectifier was just so bad that the Brimar made more of a difference than it should have. But I don't yet have enough 6F8G to know how different they can really be. Much of the difference between 6F8G and 6DE7, I have to attribute to the fact that it's a very different tube, electrically even. But if you said that rolling 6SN7 over 6DE7, with a decent rectifier, gave more than getting a better rectifier, I would agree.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> *I'm sure of it. "cough" expensive 5998 "cough".*
> 
> The WA22 rocks. Don't get me wrong. I just shouldn't have listen to the WA5 and modded HE6. That combo is a dream Tony.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm loving my TS 5998, but of course I only need one for the WA3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously, though, the TS 5998 has nice bass, but the power tube I had in earlier (TS 6250) was a champion of tone and very, well, musical (sorry, I'm not a writer for 6moons) - and cheaper than the "legendary" 5998.
  
 I also have a pair of Tung-Sol 6AS7G Tubes in-bound from eBay, after reading what (I think) Tony had to say about them.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> ...
> I also have a pair of Tung-Sol 6AS7G Tubes in-bound from eBay, after reading what (I think) Tony had to say about them.


 
  
 Not guilty (if you are referring to me). I don't know what a 6AS7G is


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Not guilty (if you are referring to me). I don't know what a 6AS7G is


 

 Well, there you go... that's what I get for late-night shopping on-line.
  
 I must have mis-read something while you were talking about another tube model number. I hope they sound good, anyway (it seems to be 6080 equivalent, but they look more like 5998s).


----------



## Porteroso

There's no reason to start assigning blame for all the purchases our fellow posters have inspired, otherwise everyone would be knee deep.
  
 Just plugged in the RCAs in again, and, well, they're better than I initially gave them credit for. They're laid back, strong bass, ever so slightly less detail, still plenty though, no harshness to speak of, they are, well, lovely is the best word to describe them. Not as holographic, but that doesn't need to be a detraction. With some female vocals, the music speaks more than with the NU. Not the words themselves, but the strength, the emotion of the voice. It pulls at me. NU are fun, ridiculously detailed and accurate, but when I initially read about the RCA grey glass, I think in the 6SN7 reference thread, the OPie described them as "just totally right." Totally spot on.
  
 They do everything so well, and no fatigue to speak of. I also realized that this pair has maybe 1 hour on them, so it was a bit unfair to be posting impressions against a broken in NU set. They will not approach the NU in what the NU does well, but they don't have to.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Well, there you go... that's what I get for late-night shopping on-line.
> 
> I must have mis-read something while you were talking about another tube model number. I hope they sound good, anyway (it seems to be 6080 equivalent, but they look more like 5998s).


 
  
 Maybe when I was yarping on about 6SN7GTs? Was booze involved? Alcohol and Ebay are a dangerous mix


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Maybe when I was yarping on about 6SN7GTs? Was booze involved? Alcohol and Ebay are a dangerous mix


 

 Ha ha... no kidding... well, if you scroll back and look at my night "audio glass" shot of the martini, that should answer your question. A little vodka and 6SN7GT magically becomes 6AS7G 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...well, at least I got the Tung-Sol part right.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Ha ha... no kidding... well, if you scroll back and look at my night "audio glass" shot of the martini, that should answer your question. A little vodka and 6SN7GT magically becomes 6AS7G
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The dangers of alcohol combined with a keyboard and internet access 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt and a pile of over-priced crap I would never have ordered without some help from Mr Jack Daniels.
  
 I hope the tubes are good - still a chance of a happy outcome - it's not like you ordered a Siberian scrotum warmer (or something equally useless).


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Ha ha... no kidding... well, if you scroll back and look at my night "audio glass" shot of the martini, that should answer your question. A little vodka and 6SN7GT magically becomes 6AS7G
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did you get the Tung Sol round plates 6SN7's ?


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Did you get the Tung Sol round plates 6SN7's ?


 

 I did not... I've read your comments on that tube, but that's not on the WA3 compatibility list (as far as I know). Of course, I am getting the itch to move up the amp chain, but I really want to move my 'phones up, first, so I am on the WA3 for the time being. Please tell me, however, if I am wrong about the compatibility issue - I am referencing the spreadsheet from Woo Audio.
  
 BTW, I see there a bunch of them for sale on eBay from Polska - I always wonder if these are authentic, but I suppose it's difficult enough to make tubes in the first place.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> I did not... I've read your comments on that tube, but that's not on the WA3 compatibility list (as far as I know). Of course, I am getting the itch to move up the amp chain, but I really want to move my 'phones up, first, so I am on the WA3 for the time being. Please tell me, however, if I am wrong about the compatibility issue - I am referencing the spreadsheet from Woo Audio.


 
 Best to check with Woo - I find emailing Jack usually gets a prompt response.
  
 Jack Woo <jack@wooaudio.com>


----------



## daverich4

tonynewman said:


> That's all a bit suck. It would be a real pity for the WA22 to fall over on bass reproduction.
> 
> Any input from other WA22 owners? I think DubstepGirl used to own a WA22 and might be able to throw an opinion into this?


 

 Right now I have TS 7236's, GEC 6AS7G's (bought them from Dubstep Girl when she sold her WA22) and TS 5998's. The 5998's are far and away my favorite power tubes. I think they provide very deep and powerful base but at the very least you'll get a noticeable increase in volume compared to other power tubes. I've been listening to HD800's for the last couple of years but Santa brought me a pair of Audeze LCD-3 headphones this Christmas. Compared to my HD800's they have much fuller bass but the highs seemed somewhat recessed from what I remembered hearing at last years regional meet in Charlotte. I normally use a WE422a Rectifier so I tried a USAF 596 without much change. My Sylvania 6SN7WGTA Brown Base drivers are the brightest drivers I had on hand so I hit 2359Glenn up for a pair of 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters and EBay'd a pair of TS 6F8G's. Wow, just wow. Previously the 5998's made the biggest change to the sound when tube rolling but the 6F8G's are on a whole  different level. I can hear brushes on a cymbal way back in the mix and triangles have that little bit of sparkle again. With the increased weight to the sound and getting the highs back with the LCD 3's I'm thinking I might sell the HD 800's to help pay for some of this stuff. At least my pocketbook is glad I'm not a WA5 or 234 owner rolling 300B's like some of you have been posting about.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Best to check with Woo - I find emailing Jack usually gets a prompt response.
> 
> Jack Woo <jack@wooaudio.com>


 

 Thanks... I may do that, depending on how my bidding goes this weekend on the West. Elec. tubes.


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> Probably not a lot of WA3 owners on this thread, but I'm going to keep posting my observations anyway (if nothing else, it's note taking for me).
> 
> I removed the Tung-Sol 6520 and the Russian Reflectors this morning, and switched back to the Siemens E88CCs and the Tung-Sol 5998. Let them warm up for 30 minutes and started playing FKA twigs "LP1" (really rich bass and vocals). I immediately noticed some additional detail, but that magic tonality I was really enjoying is missing. Crap... ah, what was the change, the power or the driver tubes?
> 
> I think the mistake I've made was changing power and drivers at once. Tonight, I will put the TS 6520 back in and see what that does on its own. I can see this process is going to take some time.


 

 Well, I changed my mind and decided to leave in the TS 5998 and, instead, replace the drivers with the Telefunken E188CCs. Listening to Zero 7 and I've never heard a more syrupy sound in my life - with real bass impact, as well. Some of that is Zero 7, but I am surprised at the difference the drivers have with the same power tube. This is my new favorite combination of glass.
  
 Testing continues...


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> Right now I have TS 7236's, GEC 6AS7G's (bought them from Dubstep Girl when she sold her WA22) and TS 5998's. The 5998's are far and away my favorite power tubes. I think they provide very deep and powerful base but at the very least you'll get a noticeable increase in volume compared to other power tubes. I've been listening to HD800's for the last couple of years but Santa brought me a pair of Audeze LCD-3 headphones this Christmas. Compared to my HD800's they have much fuller bass but the highs seemed somewhat recessed from what I remembered hearing at last years regional meet in Charlotte. I normally use a WE422a Rectifier so I tried a USAF 596 without much change. My Sylvania 6SN7WGTA Brown Base drivers are the brightest drivers I had on hand so I hit 2359Glenn up for a pair of 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters and EBay'd a pair of TS 6F8G's. Wow, just wow. Previously the 5998's made the biggest change to the sound when tube rolling but the 6F8G's are on a whole  different level. I can hear brushes on a cymbal way back in the mix and triangles have that little bit of sparkle again. With the increased weight to the sound and getting the highs back with the LCD 3's I'm thinking I might sell the HD 800's to help pay for some of this stuff. At least my pocketbook is glad I'm not a WA5 or 234 owner rolling 300B's like some of you have been posting about.


 
  
 Thanks for the explanation. Very interesting.
  
 I may have to go to the 6F8G as well by what you are saying. A lot of members having been telling me that. I feel sorry for them that I haven't done it yet.
  
 Few questions if I may? I don't like the Sennheiser sound. Way to bright for me. A lot of members talk about getting that Sennheiser treble and soundstage. Not something I would like.
 Crikey I find my LCD3C with dark tubes way too bright. Do you think the 6F8G's will be too bright for my taste?
  
 What is the TS 5998 like compared to the TS 7236? A few members have said the 7236 is the closest 6080 style to the 5998. I own the 7236 so it will give me an idea of what the 5998 is like.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I wish people would stop bidding on 6F8s  It costs me.


----------



## Stereolab42

Let's see pics of your tube stash!
  

  

  
  

  
 (My EML 300Bs are too big to fit in any of these individual tube boxes so I have them elsewhere sitting in the giant box they came in. Actually, they would fit in the Sophia boxes but I don't have any extras of those.)


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Very interesting.
> 
> I may have to go to the 6F8G as well by what you are saying. A lot of members having been telling me that. I feel sorry for them that I haven't done it yet.
> 
> ...


 

 The HD800's started out too bright for me also. My tube rolling concentrated on taming that some. My final tubes for the Sennheiser's ended up being the GEC 6AS7G, Sylvania 6SN7WGTA Brown Base and the WE422a. I gave up some bass by not using the 5998's and using the GEC's so as to take a little punch out of the HD800's. If you already think your LCD3's are too bright and you get the same change to the sound with the TS 6F8G's that I did, I can't imagine that you'd care for them.
  
 For me, the 5998's have more "life" to them than the 7236's. Sorry about the description but I'm clearly not an audio writer. Maybe more of everything? Could just be the extra power/volume that they provide but for me they're a great match with the LCD 3's, with the HD800's, not so much. YMMV.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Thanks... I may do that, depending on how my bidding goes this weekend on the West. Elec. tubes.


 
 Hey Ken, are you bidding on these?
  
 Western Electric 422A PAIR of Vacuum Tubes, Batch #6552, 6539 http://r.ebay.com/lKgU7y


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> Let's see pics of your tube stash!
> 
> (My EML 300Bs are too big to fit in any of these individual tube boxes so I have them elsewhere sitting in the giant box they came in. Actually, they would fit in the Sophia boxes but I don't have any extras of those.)


 
  
 Great stash ! how do you find the EML 300B's which ones do you have?


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> The HD800's started out too bright for me also. My tube rolling concentrated on taming that some. My final tubes for the Sennheiser's ended up being the GEC 6AS7G, Sylvania 6SN7WGTA Brown Base and the WE422a. I gave up some bass by not using the 5998's and using the GEC's so as to take a little punch out of the HD800's. If you already think your LCD3's are too bright and you get the same change to the sound with the TS 6F8G's that I did, I can't imagine that you'd care for them.
> 
> *For me, the 5998's have more "life" to them than the 7236's. Sorry about the description but I'm clearly not an audio writer. Maybe more of everything? Could just be the extra power/volume that they provide but for me they're a great match with the LCD 3's, with the HD800's, not so much. YMMV.*


 
  
 Actually. Good explanation. Actually I thought the 7236 was lifeless. It did have heaps of power but i don't need that. I only ever get to the 1'O'Clock position tops on any tube. The 7236 has good bass impact and other users say in that regards it is similar to the 5998. Everything else was not great tho.
  
 I'm using the Brimar 5R4GY Rectifier. A wide range of power tubes at the moment as I'm experimenting and the RCA Greyglass 6SN7 to tame the treble a bit. Yet I could still tame the treble more.
  
 Thinking about it last night I'm going to do one of two things. I don't think tube rolling is going to tame the treble enough for my taste. So I'm either going to:
  
 1. Modify my headphones. Do some research into damping the ear cups.
  
 2. Been playing around with the idea of having my music collection on a 64G iPad. From there I could run the Oppo HA-1 control App. Which gives me full control from the iPad (I do this now. Works great). I can also send music from the iPad via bluetooth (tested also works great). So What I would do is play the music. Run it through a Graphic EQ App and then bluetooth send to the HA-1 which feeds the WA22. I would be able to run everything via a iPad. Music, EQ and volume control. What I need to do is compare from each source to see if there is too much quality loss via bluetooth.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Actually. Good explanation. *Actually I thought the 7236 was lifeless.* It did have heaps of power but i don't need that.


 
  
 +1 ... I have not, yet, gone back to the Tung-Sol or Sylvania 7236 (although that's coming...).


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Hey Ken, are you bidding on these?
> 
> Western Electric 422A PAIR of Vacuum Tubes, Batch #6552, 6539 http://r.ebay.com/lKgU7y


 

 No. I am bidding on a pair of W21a in Madison, WI, USA (my home town, no kidding...). I am hoping to win these, so I can road-trip for pickup.


----------



## Krutsch

New tubes are here!!!! Not, yet, immersed into said amp, et al. But I am excited... impressions to follow...


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> New tubes are here!!!! Not, yet, immersed into said amp, et al. But I am excited... impressions to follow...


 

 Ha, I bought 4 of those last week. Not yet arrived. I'm on the wrong end of the planet.
  

  
 I do have one set that is labeled up Chatham with the same design. They are the best sounding 6AS7G that I have heard. However I haven't heard the 5998.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Ha, I bought 4 of those last week. Not yet arrived. I'm on the wrong end of the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> I do have one set that is labeled up Chatham with the same design. They are the best sounding 6AS7G that I have heard. However I haven't heard the 5998.


 

 Boo-yah!!  Man, I am digging this hobby!


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> Great stash ! how do you find the EML 300B's which ones do you have?


 
  
 The mesh. They are excellent, a little darker and more liquid than the SERPs. The SERPs are still my overall favorite but it's close, I like having both for variety.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> The mesh. They are excellent, a little darker and more liquid than the SERPs. The SERPs are still my overall favorite but it's close, I like having both for variety.


 

 I am struggling with mine, they only have 15 hours on them, what was your experience with burn in time and when did they come good? I was expecting the same liquid/lush sound you mention. Mine sound dry and well boring.


----------



## isquirrel

I have done a burn in chart so I can see where various comments are in relation to burn in time and their improvements. I thought it may be of interest. If anyone would like the spreadsheet PM and I will send it to you.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Damn good work.


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> I am struggling with mine, they only have 15 hours on them, what was your experience with burn in time and when did they come good? I was expecting the same liquid/lush sound you mention. Mine sound dry and well boring.


 
  
 Hmm, mine were never dry and boring, even from the start. Contrary to many others I've rarely found a tube to change sound signature that much with burn-in. At most with some I see it useful for burning out any noise or static present initially.


----------



## MIKELAP

stereolab42 said:


> Let's see pics of your tube stash!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well well well so thats where earths last 596's are !


----------



## joseph69

I'm also hiding a total of 3 UE-596's I snatched up here and there!


----------



## Moon2014

stereolab42 said:


> Let's see pics of your tube stash!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





very nice stock...what is yor favorite VT-99 ?

thanks


----------



## Stereolab42

The Tung Sol VT-99s of both varieties are the best, although the RCA isn't too far behind. I'm thinking of picking up some NU VT-99s as well for comparison. It's hard to tell in the pic but a lot of those 6SN7s are brown-base Sylvania 6SN7s, another personal favorite.
  
 You certainly have some rectifiers I eventually want to acquire as well (PSVane replicas, Fivre, apparently the Brimars...)


----------



## Moon2014

stereolab42 said:


> The Tung Sol VT-99s of both varieties are the best, although the RCA isn't too far behind. I'm thinking of picking up some NU VT-99s as well for comparison. It's hard to tell in the pic but a lot of those 6SN7s are brown-base Sylvania 6SN7s, another personal favorite.
> 
> You certainly have some rectifiers I eventually want to acquire as well (PSVane replicas, Fivre, apparently the Brimars...)




Thank you for your Info. I ordered some Rectifier and the Brimar is for this price very very good. I also like the Psvane Replica after a very long in burn in process.

I ordered 6FG8 Sylvania and maybe the RCA. The Tung Sol I found are expensive what is a good price for the TS 6F8G or other brands?

thanks


----------



## roskodan

hi, need some feedback for wa22 tubes
  
 what do you guys think about these compared to other popular options price/performance wise?
  
 - Sylvania 6SN7GT NOS, built 1940 offical woo audio upgrade tube before GE version
  
 - Chatham  (Tung Sol) JAN-CAHG-5998 NOS, built 1960


----------



## musicman59

Sometime ago I bough a pair of Brimar 5Y3G rectifiers for my WA5-LE and never tried them. I put them to work last night.
 At the beginning were a little "shouty" in the midrange but they started to settle after a couple of hours so I am assuming the will improve more over time. What amazed me was their soundstage presentation. It is very big and holographic. The highs have a lot of detail and definition and the bass is fast and controlled. The sound was like watching a movie in 3D. If the midrange gets settle a little more these Brimar will be awesome.


----------



## Stereolab42

moon2014 said:


> Thank you for your Info. I ordered some Rectifier and the Brimar is for this price very very good. I also like the Psvane Replica after a very long in burn in process.
> 
> I ordered 6FG8 Sylvania and maybe the RCA. The Tung Sol I found are expensive what is a good price for the TS 6F8G or other brands?
> 
> thanks


 
  
 The good prices are gone, the Italians now want $250 for a pair. If you're comparing to VT-231 Tung Sols, of course, it's still a bargain. Basically you have to compare to what the equivalent pair of 6SN7s go for.


----------



## Stereolab42

.


----------



## nwavesailor

I also use the NU 6F8G's and really like them. The only down side  (like a lot of tubes including the TS 6F8G version) is they can be quite microphonic. I haven't tried Herbie's tube Dampers on the pair I am currently using, but am living with the microphonics. These NU's are not being used in a Woo, however, and perhaps in a HP amp the microphonics would be no-go........ hard to say.


----------



## Badas

roskodan said:


> hi, need some feedback for wa22 tubes
> 
> what do you guys think about these compared to other popular options price/performance wise?
> 
> ...




It depends on your taste. I found the Sylvania way too bright for me and eventually went RCA Greyglass to mellow it a bit.

The 5998 I haven't tried but has the reputation of being one of the best.


----------



## Badas

I've been doing an interesting experiment today.

I just wanted to colour the sound signature to my rig just a little. Obviously we can roll the tubes in our amps to our liking. I have been doing that however I was not quite there. I just needed a tad more bass and a little tiny bit of treble roll off. 

So I'm currently experimenting with a little EQ. 

As my iPod Classic can't install EQ Apps that made it a no go. Bit of a pity as the iPod classic and Arcam dock make a nice combo. Add to insult not many iPods that can install Apps don't work in the Arcam dock.

Then I came up with the Bluetooth solution. I have a new generation iPod 16G just lying around. Plus the Oppo HA-1 has a Bluetooth connection. BAM! Installed my favourite headphone music on the iPod. Installed Oppo HA-1 control App. Found a EQ and music player App and installed. 

So the iPod just sits next to me during a listening session. I can choose the music, control volume (the iPod volume buttons can control also), do a little EQ adjustment, and control the whole Oppo all from it.  The Oppo is my remote volume control for the WA22.

I can't hear any resolution loss using Bluetooth compared to other sources as well. So far I'm very impressed. It has given me that last little edge and sound signature control. 

A little more experimenting to do. However so far so good. It could be the future of my headphone listening.

Pics below:



Shows music being played, then sent to the Oppo and finally the Woo.



Shows the EQ programe that gets applied in the music player App. It also has a soundstage programe which impressed me.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> So I'm currently experimenting with a little EQ.


 
  
 I've been doing some of the same. I use a MacBook + Audirvana + Voxengo's HarmoniEQ (AU plug-in). It's addicting, once you start playing around with EQ. I have to admit, I feel funny using EQ, because I've been brainwashed to believe EQ is bad, although it's no different from coloring playback with tube rolling (and a WHOLE LOT less expensive).
  
 Very cool setup ... the Oppo HA-1 + Oppo BDP + WA22 looks like an end-game setup, to me.


----------



## Moon2014

In my new WA5 I used for arround 25 hours the stock Tubes with the HE-6 at the K1K output and it sounds ok. It was interessting before I hear the HifiMan with my Bryston and it seemed to me that there is not enough power to drive the HE-6 to perfection. Totaly different is the Woo to my ears it sounds with the stock Tubes better than the BHA-1.

After this first short burn in process I swapped in the SERP's, the Cossor 6SN7GT and the Brimar Rectifier and I was a litle bit disapointed. I read a lot about the SQ from the SERP's and I use the Brimar in my WA6 and I like it very much so the Cossor must be the Problem, I changed it to the stock Sylvania and it was much better. I hope the Cossor will be much much better after Burning in process if not is was an expensive experience. I am use the WA6 for burning in the Cossor right now

At the moment I use the Psvane T2's in the WA5 there have only 50hrs on it and I think they need a lot of more hours.



I really think that the WA6 is very good amp and I like the sound with my HD800 but the WA5 is to my ears a big step forward and I only can imagine how it sound when everything is fully burnend in 

At the moment I am sitting in my armchair and enjoy some singer and songwriter music.



I did the HE-6 regrilling and the Audeze vegan Pad mod so far. I bought felt for the "Fuzzor" mod but I think is the wrong material it is not stiff enough I have to look for other one. But this two mods sound very good to my ears and the new pads are very comfortable.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

moon2014 said:


> In my new WA5 I used for arround 25 hours the stock Tubes with the HE-6 at the K1K output and it sounds ok. It was interessting before I hear the HifiMan with my Bryston and it seemed to me that there is not enough power to drive the HE-6 to perfection. Totaly different is the Woo to my ears it sounds with the stock Tubes better than the BHA-1.
> 
> After this first short burn in process I swapped in the SERP's, the Cossor 6SN7GT and the Brimar Rectifier and I was a litle bit disapointed. I read a lot about the SQ from the SERP's and I use the Brimar in my WA6 and I like it very much so the Cossor must be the Problem, I changed it to the stock Sylvania and it was much better. I hope the Cossor will be much much better after Burning in process if not is was an expensive experience. Im use the WA6 for burning in the Cossor.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am jelly of your setup.  
  
 I'm using JAN 6SN7, Sophia 300b and stock 274b on WA5.  I like this combo.


----------



## Moon2014

hifiguy528 said:


> I am jelly of your setup.
> 
> I'm using JAN 6SN7, Sophia 300b and stock 274b on WA5.  I like this combo.




But yours is also a nice one 

Is the Sony a Streamer?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

moon2014 said:


> But yours is also a nice one
> 
> Is the Sony a Streamer?


 
  
 Thank you!!   It's the Sony top of the line music server HAP-Z1es.  Sounds amazing if you can get over the set up challenges.


----------



## magiccabbage

hifiguy528 said:


> I am jelly of your setup.
> 
> I'm using JAN 6SN7, Sophia 300b and stock 274b on WA5.  I like this combo.


 
 You should maybe try those brimars - I bought a pair and noticed quiet and improvement over the stock 274b. They also have a lovely bright glow


----------



## Badas

If anyone is interested in the Brimar information:

Brimar 5Z4GY. Available in black or brown base.

Purchase from Langrex. Great service. Cheap freight and takes a average of a week to deliver. 

http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html

Price £18.50 each.


----------



## Moon2014

badas said:


> If anyone is interested in the Brimar information:
> 
> Brimar 5Z4GY. Available in black or brown base.
> 
> ...




Yes you found a really great bargain - Thanks for sharing with us


----------



## Krutsch

moon2014 said:


> At the moment I am sitting in my armchair and enjoy some singer and songwriter music.


 
  
 Beautiful setup. That looks like a projection screen behind your head-fi rig presentation. Did you cannibalize your theater rig for Head-Fi? You, sir, are a true enthusiast


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Beautiful setup. That looks like a projection screen behind your head-fi rig presentation. Did you cannibalize your theater rig for Head-Fi? You, sir, are a true enthusiast




I cannibalized my HT also. Never had a interest in headphones at all until 6 months ago. Everything is changed now tho.

I have a mega expensive projector. 230 unwatched blu-ray films and all I want to do is play with the Woo. 

HT link: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> I cannibalized my HT also. Never had a interest in headphones at all until 6 months ago. Everything is changed now tho.
> 
> I have a mega expensive projector. 230 unwatched blu-ray films and all I want to do is play with the Woo.
> 
> ...


 

 Wow... impressive HT setup. I don't think I would ever leave that room


----------



## kazsud

hifiguy528 said:


> I am jelly of your setup.
> 
> I'm using JAN 6SN7, Sophia 300b and stock 274b on WA5.  I like this combo.


 
  
 Nice credenza!!


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> If anyone is interested in the Brimar information:
> 
> Brimar 5Z4GY. Available in black or brown base.
> 
> Purchase from Langrex.


 
 I found out about this tube from @TonyNewman…who then told me he found out about this tube through you, so thank you! I ordered one the other night, but didn't see/realize they came in Bown/Black base, so I don't know what I'm getting. What are the differences?


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> I found out about this tube from @TonyNewman…who then told me he found out about this tube through you, so thank you! I ordered one the other night, but didn't see/realize they came in Bown/Black base, so I don't know what I'm getting. What are the differences?


 

 None, both are the same.


----------



## Krutsch

The Holy Grail, to quote someone on this thread ... Western Electric 421a, matched pair, tested strong, coming soon to a Woo near me.
  
 Now, I really *do* have to stop buying tubes.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> None, both are the same.


 
 So its just pot luck?


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> So its just pot luck?




Yep, when I oredred I didn't specify Black or Brown and I was sent Black, I guess you try specifying when you order.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> Yep, when I oredred I didn't specify Black or Brown and I was sent Black, I guess you try specifying when you order.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## xahhax

I have a WA7 which fell from its stand - destroying the top glass cover.
 I emailed woo audio without a response. 
 Any idea where i can purchase a replacement part?
 Many thanks


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Ha, I bought 4 of those last week. Not yet arrived. I'm on the wrong end of the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> I do have one set that is labeled up Chatham with the same design. They are the best sounding 6AS7G that I have heard. However I haven't heard the 5998.


 

 Well, I finally got around to throwing one of the TS 6AS7G into the WA3. No burn-in, yet, so maybe the sound will change. More controlled bass (and less of it, compared to the 5998, which was really growing on me), but it shows promise.
  
 However, the first one I tried really rings - I mean more than any other tube I have. I guess I've been lucky, so far.
  
 Does ringing settle down with burn-in or it going to stay that way? Do I need tube dampers for these? Or, is this just a bad tube or how these sound?


----------



## joseph69

xahhax said:


> I have a WA7 which fell from its stand - destroying the top glass cover.
> I emailed woo audio without a response.
> Any idea where i can purchase a replacement part?
> Many thanks


 
 I'm sure you can only get it from WA, I'd e-mail them again.
 Or you may have to send the amp back to them to be fixed.


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> If anyone is interested in the Brimar information:
> 
> Brimar 5Z4GY. Available in black or brown base.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice. Very very nice.
 I've noticed that your plates are grey.
 The plates are black on my 5Z4GY tubes.
 When did they start producing grey plates?
  

  
 I wonder if the sound stage differs between the black plates and grey plates.


----------



## Badas

You guys have been busy today. awesome.



krutsch said:


> Wow... impressive HT setup. I don't think I would ever leave that room :rolleyes:




Thanks Dude. Yip the room is well used. 




isquirrel said:


> Yep, when I oredred I didn't specify Black or Brown and I was sent Black, I guess you try specifying when you order.




Yes. I specified brown on my last two orders and got brown. 




krutsch said:


> Well, I finally got around to throwing one of the TS 6AS7G into the WA3. No burn-in, yet, so maybe the sound will change. More controlled bass (and less of it, compared to the 5998, which was really growing on me), but it shows promise.
> 
> However, the first one I tried really rings - I mean more than any other tube I have. I guess I've been lucky, so far.
> 
> Does ringing settle down with burn-in or it going to stay that way? Do I need tube dampers for these? Or, is this just a bad tube or how these sound?




Sometimes they stop. Sometimes not. I had a RCA 6AS7G that was hissing humming and spitting the first time. Turned it on the second time and it was very well behaved. It is amost like that heat expands everything into place and then settles.




clayton sf said:


> Nice. Very very nice.
> I've noticed that your plates are grey.
> The plates are black on my 5Z4GY tubes.
> When did they start producing grey plates?
> ...




Geez great spotting. I hadn't noticed. I'm going to check my stock and see if I have a black plate version. I have no answers to your questions.


----------



## Badas

Okay, I just checked.

I have 12 brown and two black base Brimars.

The brown base all have grey plates. The black has very dark plates. Very close to black.

I started with a black base and switched to a brown base last week. I didn't notice a difference.

I'm not saying there is not a difference. I just didn't hear it.


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> Okay, I just checked.
> 
> I have 12 brown and two black base Brimars.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great! Thanks for checking. I wonder, technically, what (chemical recipe) would make the plates black. And why they would manufacture some with grey plates and some with black plates. It's a lost art and lost recipe. Nevertheless, that is the coolest looking tube, I think.


----------



## Badas

clayton sf said:


> Nevertheless, that is the coolest looking tube, I think.




I like the bullet holes or Swiss cheese plates. Very cool.

Would look great teamed up with the Tung-Sol 5998's which also has a similar plate look.


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> I like the bullet holes or Swiss cheese plates. Very cool.
> 
> Would look great teamed up with the Tung-Sol 5998's which also has a similar plate look.


 
  
 That is what I like about those plates too. Exactly. And the sound is an extra bonus too!


----------



## Porteroso

Just got the Tung Sol VT-99s, and the Raytheon VT-99s. I listened to the Raytheon first, they seemed pretty good. The Tung Sol, I will just enjoy them for a bit... And do some comparisons with the NU later. They are very similar tubes, but I need to let everything burn in before I keep running my mouth about it all. Safe to say that it is very difficult to hear anything "wrong" with either the National Union or the Tung Sol. I do wonder how much of the tubey sound I still have though, and how close to a good solid state presentation I am getting.


----------



## Moon2014

krutsch said:


> Beautiful setup. That looks like a projection screen behind your head-fi rig presentation. Did you cannibalize your theater rig for Head-Fi? You, sir, are a true enthusiast




Yes I had a nice small Home Cinema and I loved it very much. But my neighbour didn't like it as much as I did :mad:

So last August I started with HeadFi and really love it. The sound is excelent and I can listen to my music every time without disturbing the neighbours 

At the moment I build up a smaller Home Cinema System but my priority is HeadFi with my Woo Amps and different Headphones


----------



## Moon2014

porteroso said:


> Just got the Tung Sol VT-99s, and the Raytheon VT-99s. I listened to the Raytheon first, they seemed pretty good. The Tung Sol, I will just enjoy them for a bit... And do some comparisons with the NU later. They are very similar tubes, but I need to let everything burn in before I keep running my mouth about it all. Safe to say that it is very difficult to hear anything "wrong" with either the National Union or the Tung Sol. I do wonder how much of the tubey sound I still have though, and how close to a good solid state presentation I am getting.




I am very interested in the difference between this tubes and looking forward to read your comparison


----------



## kokushu

Is there any reason why the 7n7 tube is not as popular for 6sn7 replacement?  From what I read it suppose to be the same electrical and come at a much lower price right now.


----------



## Badas

kokushu said:


> Is there any reason why the 7n7 tube is not as popular for 6sn7 replacement?  From what I read it suppose to be the same electrical and come at a much lower price right now.




Not 100% sure but I think you need a adapter.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Not 100% sure but I think you need a adapter.


 
  
 You sure do. Woo sell nice ones.
  
 The 7N7s I got from Woo kinda sucked hairy armpits, but the adapters are very well made.


----------



## kokushu

Yeah, you do need an adapter but if I have the 6f8g then it shouldn't be a big problem.  I am looking into these tube now because from what I read they are suppose to be technically better than 6sn7.  I don't know if that would translate into better sound or not but it doesn't hurt to try at their current price.  You could get 10 lifetime worth of 7n7 tube for one ts bgrp.  Did you get the sylvania tall glass version Tony?  I think those are the older one and supposedly better than the short one.


----------



## MIKELAP

clayton sf said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, I just checked.
> ...


 
 I have brown base  and  black base plates are gray on all of them


----------



## Badas

^

Interesting. I think this going to be a real mystery. Seems that when you order from Langrex it is a lottery with what you get. I ordered brown base on two orders and both times that is what was supplied, but the black plate business is something new.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> ...  Did you get the sylvania tall glass version Tony?  I think those are the older one and supposedly better than the short one.


 
  
 The 7N7s supplied by Woo were Tung-Sols. I can't see any date markings on them.
  
 I will plug these in again with the Brimar and give them another run. Perhaps I didn't give them enough hours on the first try - it is hard to keep them in as they suck pretty hard.
  
 EDIT - now this is odd - the 7N7s are performing very well with the Brimar. Some slight harshness and microphonics that I hope will disappear with more hours, but they are showing great promise. Not sure why I detested them on the first try - perhaps this was back when I had sucky rectifiers.
  
 Anyway, these are not bad tubes at all. Tempted to try them in the WA5, but I don't have a 7N7->6SN7 adapter.
  
 If the slight harshness and microphonics fade with more hours these could be winners. I have had them sitting on a shelf, unloved, for quite a few months - in fact I think I came close to binning them after the first listen. Glad I didn't.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Interesting. I think this going to be a real mystery. Seems that when you order from Langrex it is a lottery with what you get. I ordered brown base on two orders and both times that is what was supplied, but the black plate business is something new.


 
 My first order i was expecting 5Z4GR brown base like on picture i got black base 5Z4G on there site .The second time i ordered i asked for 5Z4GR brown base and thats what i,got .


----------



## Oskari

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Interesting. I think this going to be a real mystery. Seems that when you order from Langrex it is a lottery with what you get. I ordered brown base on two orders and both times that is what was supplied, but the black plate business is something new.


 
  
 Generally speaking, black-plate tubes are older than grey-plate tubes.
  
 Black base versus brown micanol base should make no difference whatsoever, unless yours is an aerospace application.


----------



## Stereolab42

Let the 7N7 hype begin... those 6F8Gs, they are already yesterday's news.


----------



## Porteroso

stereolab42 said:


> Let the 7N7 hype begin... those 6F8Gs, they are already yesterday's news.


 
 I won't have time for a while, but I do plan on picking up a pair of 7N7 adapters. Apparently, regardless of the brand, Sylvania made almost all of the 7N7 tubes out there (NU did make a few), and they are super cheap. It would be very interesting to directly compare them to 6SN7 and 6F8G. Apparently the tall bottle type is identical to the 6SN7, and they are supposedly better than either short bottle version. It seems Sylvania made 3 types. The NU ones are supposedly the best, but I've read in 2 places that they are an unreliable tube. I wonder if it is just people picking up old used tubes, or what. The people that have them working have good things to say about them.
  
 edit: Square plates seem to be the best, as opposed to triangle plates. NU made the only round plates.


----------



## Krutsch

stereolab42 said:


> Let the 7N7 hype begin... those 6F8Gs, they are already yesterday's news.


 






 ... best post I've read, today, except for @mikoss WA2 and tube rolling review.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> Let the 7N7 hype begin... those 6F8Gs, they are already yesterday's news.


 

 Funny you should say that, these turned up last week.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> The 7N7s supplied by Woo were Tung-Sols. I can't see any date markings on them.
> 
> I will plug these in again with the Brimar and give them another run. Perhaps I didn't give them enough hours on the first try - it is hard to keep them in as they suck pretty hard.
> 
> ...


 

 Tony,
  
 Tung Sols usually take forever to burn in, any chance you could post pics so we can have a look at the construction?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Tony,
> 
> Tung Sols usually take forever to burn in, any chance you could post pics so we can have a look at the construction?


 
  
 My camera work blows, but here you go:


----------



## bpcans

^^^ TonyN, is that a pic of your tube " burn in" WA6 amp? The Tung Sols look pretty cool.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> ^^^ TonyN, is that a pic of your tube " burn in" WA6 amp? The Tung Sols look pretty cool.


 
  
 More than just burn in - it is my PC sound system (toslink->Simaudio 100D DAC->WA6->HD600). I use it to test + burn in rectifiers and driver tubes, but it also gets a lot of head time loving as well. The WA6 is a highly capable amp that pairs nicely with the HD600.
  
 This is my first HeadFi setup that was the start of my descent into audiophile + tube madness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Tung-Sol 7N7s are showing some signs of improvement already - I think I can detect some fading of the initial harshness and microphonics (or perhaps it is all happening inside my head).
  
 EDIT - not all in my head - these are good tubes that are getting better and better with use. The pairing with the Brimar seems very good, but I will also try the Psvane WE274B replica later for a darker matching.
  
 One other thing I have noticed - the 7N7 seems to have a higher output power compared to other driver tubes I have used in the WA6. A bit less of a spin on the gain knob to get the same volume as with other tubes types - not a huge difference, but noticeable.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> One other thing I have noticed - the 7N7 seems to have a higher output power compared to other driver tubes I have used in the WA6. A bit less of a spin on the gain knob to get the same volume as with other tubes types - not a huge difference, but noticeable.


 
 Does the 7N7 use the same adapter as the 6DE7>6SN7 for the WA6?


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Does the 7N7 use the same adapter as the 6DE7>6SN7 for the WA6?


 
  
 Nope - different pin arrangement with 7N7 vs 6SN7.
  
 Woo sell a very nice 7N7->6DE7 adapter, as shown in the pics above.


----------



## Clayton SF

I see. 7N7 -> 6DE7. It's good to be able to use other tubes with the right adapters.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Nope - different pin arrangement with 7N7 vs 6SN7.
> 
> Woo sell a very nice 7N7->6DE7 adapter, as shown in the pics above.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Thank you.


 
  
 I should mention that I have heard of 7N7s with a standard octal base - these should plug right into any 6SN7 socket with no problem.
  
 All the 7N7s I have seen have a very different pin arrangement and need an adapter, but some might not.


----------



## Angelbelow

Any impressions on the Grados RS1 (i or e) and the WA5?
  
 Enjoyed the Grados sr325i for a few years before upgrading to the HE500s and sometimes miss the sound.


----------



## MIKELAP

tonynewman said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> > Tony,
> ...


 
 Looks like you use a flash try without the flash less glare just my .02cents


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> Looks like you use a flash try without the flash less glare just my .02cents


 
 Tried that - get a dark mess without any visible detail. My camera skills sit somewhere between "duffus" and "moron".


----------



## Badas

^
  
 They look okay to me. They show everything of interest.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> I should mention that I have heard of 7N7s with a standard octal base - these should plug right into any 6SN7 socket with no problem.
> 
> All the 7N7s I have seen have a very different pin arrangement and need an adapter, but some might not.


 
 OK, thank you again for the information.





  


angelbelow said:


> Any impressions on the Grados RS1 (i or e) and the WA5?
> 
> Enjoyed the Grados sr325i for a few years before upgrading to the HE500s and sometimes miss the sound.


 
 Isn't it amazing that no matter what other HP's people have, they always enjoy the sound of their Grados!


----------



## Oskari

tonynewman said:


> I should mention that I have heard of 7N7s with a standard octal base - these should plug right into any 6SN7 socket with no problem.


 
  
 Magic mushrooms were probably involved.


----------



## MIKELAP

tonynewman said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like you use a flash try without the flash less glare just my .02cents
> ...


 
 Give yourself a break man ,using indirect lighting helps my.04 cents


----------



## TonyNewman

I had no idea HEadFi'ers where such latent photography critics


----------



## MIKELAP

tonynewman said:


> I had no idea HEadFi'ers where such latent photography critics


 
 Sorry wasnt my intent


----------



## Stereolab42

I found the only real solution to decent indoor photography was a DLSR. You do have $1000 burning a hole in your pocket I hope?


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> Sorry wasnt my intent


 
 Not necessary at all - I was totally joking. I was hoping the smiley face would convey that, but things sometimes don't translate well in email - that's my bad, not yours.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> I found the only real solution to decent indoor photography was a DLSR. You do have $1000 burning a hole in your pocket I hope?


 
  
 If I did it would have "Elrog 300B" written on it.


----------



## MIKELAP

tonynewman said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry wasnt my intent
> ...


 
 Ok great i was afraid i insulted you or something  that's the problem sometimes words dont always convey true meaning or emotions.


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> Ok great i was afraid i insulted you or something  that's the problem sometimes words dont always convey true meaning or emotions.


 
  
 I'm Australian - you would have to shout obscenities at me for quite some time for me to take offence (and even then I would have some doubts about it) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Back to all things Woo


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> Ok great i was afraid i insulted you or something  that's the problem sometimes words dont always convey true meaning or emotions.


 
 Can't tell you how many times I took messages the wrong way (on this forum) and afterwards felt like a moron! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So now if I'm unsure if someone is directing something negative/sarcastic toward my post, I leave it at that…its better that way for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

More fun with the Tung-Sol 7N7s in the WA6. I have swapped out the Brimar for the PSvane WE274B rectifier - a much darker tube with _almost_ the same performance as the Brimar - and the result is rather good. Some residual harshness in the 7N7s, but not many hours on them.
  
 This is very promising indeed. I might have to invest in some 7N7->6SN7 adapters


----------



## reeltime

stereolab42 said:


> I found the only real solution to decent indoor photography was a DLSR. You do have $1000 burning a hole in your pocket I hope?


 
  
 Here's a camera primer-- don't read this if you could care less about taking photos. (Now you've been warned).  You don’t need a fancy camera to take a quality amp photo.  In fact, you have a perfect camera right in your pocket.
  

  
  
 SIMPLE SOLUTION:  Use your iPhone! (Photo above taken with an iPhone 6+)
 You can take a terrific amplifier photo with an iPhone.  However— you also want to use a camera app like 645 Pro, which allows full access to all of the camera’s settings.  You also need to have a way of steadying the phone.  It cannot move while you are taking the photo or it will blur.  You can get pretty creative wedging the phone between books, or just buy a cheap phone tripod.  
  
 How to set the iPhone:  In AUTO mode, the iPhone is going to see a dark image, so the camera says— “Hey!  It’s dark!  I’m gonna go super sensitive so I can get all the light I can.”  That’s a problem because the photo gets grainy.  With 645 Pro, you tell the camera to behave light it’s a bright day, leave the sensitivity at normal.  The sensitivity is called ISO.  Turn the camera app to full manual (M setting), turn the ISO all the way down.  The picture will go dark.  So now you need to tell the camera to take a longer exposure, since the ISO is set so low.  So crank the shutter speed all the way down.
  
 NO FLASH.  Turn it off.  Just don't do it.  Most people misuse their on-camera flash.  On camera flash serves one purpose:  To fill a shadow on someone's face in bright sunlight-- it even's out sunlight.  Yep, the flash is for the sunlight, not the darkness.  Totally counter intuitive, but everyone makes this common mistake.  If you want to use a flash indoors... well let's leave that for another day. 
  
 Now— set the self-timer to take the photo.  Because the simple act of pressing the touch screen will blur the image.  You want the camera to count down from 10, then snap on it’s own.  
  
 After, use a photo editing app (I use photoshop for iPhone, to adjust the image a bit and give it some pop.  You can do this freely because there’s no grain in the image.  I use this technique for all kinds of night photography (with or without my iPhone).  
  
 There are more complex ways to take a great amp photo.  I can get into that if anyone is interested, but the idea that you need $2000 in camera gear isn’t true.


----------



## TonyNewman

Thanks for that.
  
 I find it very difficult to get a shot that highlights the internal structure of a tube without using the flash. I end up with a dark and shadowy pic that doesn't show the technical detail that folks want to see. There probably is a way to do it with the correct aperture setting and shutter speed etc - but I really can't be arsed. Point, click, flash. It ain't pretty, but it shows the bits that folks want to see


----------



## Krutsch

Well, I think I've found my tube dealer. Made the brutal drive to Madison, Wisconsin through the tail-end of the giant storm hitting the US - 5 hours of snow and freezing rain. I literally saw 4 accidents along the way. I am a slave to my hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I went down to meet with owner of a boutique audio shop and to pick up a set of Western Electric 421a, which he had ready to go when I arrived. He gave me a tour of the place.
  
 Wow... it would not be a stretch to say he had more than 50,000 tubes in storage. Reasonably organized (I mean, as much as anyone would that had been collecting tubes for 50 years) on shelves and in drawers.
  
 He had a *case* of WE 421a tubes ... like, a dozen of them in one box that he acquired in an estate sale. He had an original DeForest Audion in its cardboard box on display. He had a crazy collection of super-sized tubes that, in his words, are worthless but fun to look at (see photo). Tons of pre-war and WWII radio gear. His workbench had a McIntosh amp that he was restoring for someone that was originally designed for amplifying church bells (I had no idea that McIntosh made amps for that purpose).
  
 I didn't even have time to look at his huge collection of reel-to-reel decks, vintage turntables and amps...
  
 Pretty neat afternoon... Honestly, this guy's huge backroom was an electronics museum.
  
 I think the coolest part, however, was learning how to use his Hickok Tube Tester. He asked me what else I could use, and without really thinking, I asked if he had any Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 tubes... he had a drawer full of them. I picked out a few, we hit the tester and I found a pair that maxed out the readings. Jesus...
  
 Anyway, he wanted to keep going, but I was just overwhelmed after a couple of hours (and I was meeting a friend for dinner).
 Can't wait to hear the new WE 421a... I have enough tubes now, that I should start saving for a WA2


----------



## TonyNewman

> Originally Posted by *Krutsch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My, that's a big one.
> 
> ...


----------



## Badas

^^^

Awesome. Great photo and story. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Angelbelow

joseph69 said:


> OK, thank you again for the information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, always been curious about the RS1s.


----------



## Porteroso

So, the TS v NU in VT-99. Hard to declare a winner.
  
 The real competition in VT-99 seems to be between the TS and NU, and man are they close. Both are very holographic, great soundstage, both have excellent detail all throughout the range, both have strong bass, both extended both directions. However, the difference is, for me, in the treble/upper midrange. The NU are a bit more pronounced there, to the point where they seem slightly more engaging. After listening back and forth many times, I've decided that the TS is maybe, actually, the more accurate, and the NU is adding a slight edge, but then, maybe the TS is taking a slight (and I do mean ever so slight) edge off. I am not sure that it's a fault in the NU, but in the TS, vocals simply have more "body." At times, I almost hear through the recording, through the mic, and seem to hear what the singer really sounded like. It may be that the NU's edge hides a bit of detail in the upper midrange, I am not sure. Not much, if any. Both drive at very similar levels, and I did not hear an audible change in volume when switching, as opposed to the RCA for example.
  
 However, if I wasn't listening back and forth between them, I doubt I'd be able to say that one was much different than the other. I am trying to find differences, and while I know that I listened enough to know that there was a slight difference, without a doubt, between the 2, it was so very slight, in the grand scheme of things. The NU is a bit in your face, and the TS is a bit laid back, again, comparatively. That is the main difference. Both supremely enjoyable. Both sound tonally "right," both have similar extension and detail. Just slightly different takes on the upper midrange/treble. And I will say this, the TS rp is not worth 500 per pair if you can get the NU for 100-200 per pair. I lucked out and managed to snag 2 pairs of TS rp for about 50 a pair, so deals are still out there. But this thread might end up driving enough traffic to affect the market, so who knows where prices will settle. It has already affected prices some.
  
 One last thing on these 2, I am listening to these on Grado PS500s, which are slightly pronounced towards the treble, and also are very forward. On a WA6 with the Brimar. It may be that with darker headphones, the NU would actually beat out the TS, I am not sure. I will definitely try to find out at the Nashville meet. Also, the NU I bought used, tested strong. The TS are NOS with about 20 hours on them. I feel it's a fair comparison, as I've never heard anyone claim that more hours would add an edge to the TS, and enough hours that it won't change much more. If it changed at all from first listen to now, it would be a slight edge taken off. I might be making that up too, who knows. Very little change.
  
  
  
 Afterwards, I listened to the RCA VT-99: This is much closer to the TS rp than I would have thought, reading online reviews. It is the steal of the VT-99, without a doubt. There was a guy not long ago selling matched pairs of these for 60 bucks. I took a 10 minute break after hearing the TS, and when I heard the RCA, I was like "wow, is this really any worse than the TS?" I had to switch back to the TS again, and much like the NU, the RCA are not that far off at all. I would say that of the 3, the NU is slightly on the bright, edgy side, the TS in the middle, and the RCA right under the TS. The RCA might have the slightest veil, but listening to it normally, I did not notice it. That probably contributes to its reputation as darker, with a bigger midrange. Its bass performance might be slightly less detailed, but it does not have any more or less bass presence than the TS, except maybe ever so slightly less definition/extension way down low. Separation/imaging slightly worse. Slightly more 2d. Maybe it is just slightly less detailed/bright, and that would explain everything I hear. Not that it is "dark," just a tad darker, still oodles of detail. Definitely different. Hard to really describe the difference, as well. Laid back.
  
 By the way, the Raytheons are very good too. I'd say they were as good as any of the rest, except they are a bit sibilant. The treble is pronounced, and if only the midrange was also pronounced, that would be fine, but it's not. Vocals can definitely sound more sibilant. That said, I have less than 2 hours on these, so I need to give them more time before I say anything definitive. I think the sibilance will be tamed into something manageable. Very, very close to the RCA otherwise.
  
  
 To sum it all up, knowing what I now know, I would say to first, snap up a few pairs of the RCA grey glass, and don't pay more than 35-40 per tube. They are the best value, and they will only get more and more rare. If you can find NU and TS at around 100 per tube, they are worth it. The Tung Sol is the king, in my opinion, but by a hair. I would be happy with any of the top 3, very happy.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Well, I think I've found my tube dealer. Made the brutal drive to Madison, Wisconsin through the tail-end of the giant storm hitting the US - 5 hours of snow and freezing rain. I literally saw 4 accidents along the way. I am a slave to my hobby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome stuff, thanks for the photos. That 355A is huge !


----------



## isquirrel

Article on the Elrog’s vs the WE’s
  


> http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/elrog2/1.html





>





> In other news I missed out on a pair of WE422A's by $10 on an eBay auction.





>





> Reason - I feel asleep and missed the end of the bidding, agh


----------



## Nic Rhodes

porteroso said:


> So, the TS v NU in VT-99. Hard to declare a winner.
> 
> The real competition in VT-99 seems to be between the TS and NU, and man are they close. Both are very holographic, great soundstage, both have excellent detail all throughout the range, both have strong bass, both extended both directions. However, the difference is, for me, in the treble/upper midrange. The NU are a bit more pronounced there, to the point where they seem slightly more engaging. After listening back and forth many times, I've decided that the TS is maybe, actually, the more accurate, and the NU is adding a slight edge, but then, maybe the TS is taking a slight (and I do mean ever so slight) edge off. I am not sure that it's a fault in the NU, but in the TS, vocals simply have more "body." At times, I almost hear through the recording, through the mic, and seem to hear what the singer really sounded like. It may be that the NU's edge hides a bit of detail in the upper midrange, I am not sure. Not much, if any. Both drive at very similar levels, and I did not hear an audible change in volume when switching, as opposed to the RCA for example.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Great post, thanks. Were the Raytheon round or flat plates?


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Well, to say I'm amazed is an understatement! Been listening to the newly arrived Elrog 300b's in the Woo WA5...with just 3 hours on them, the clarity, the lack of any harshness, the bass, the depth of the soundstage, is remarkable. To hear all these attributes through my AKG K1000, is literally astounding! I had to turn the Woo off...could not stop listening!! If they sounded like this after only 3 hours, can't imagine after 100+ hours. No wonder there is a run on this tube? Btw, Trueaudiophile.com where I purchased them, were great to deal with.


----------



## Porteroso

nic rhodes said:


> Great post, thanks. Were the Raytheon round or flat plates?


 
 Roundish. Here are all 4 of them, Raytheon on the right.


----------



## isquirrel

stax-i-nox said:


> Well, to say I'm amazed is an understatement! Been listening to the newly arrived Elrog 300b's in the Woo WA5...with just 3 hours on them, the clarity, the lack of any harshness, the bass, the depth of the soundstage, is remarkable. To hear all these attributes through my AKG K1000, is literally astounding! I had to turn the Woo off...could not stop listening!! If they sounded like this after only 3 hours, can't imagine after 100+ hours. No wonder there is a run on this tube? Btw, Trueaudiophile.com where I purchased them, were great to deal with.


 

 You are in for a pleasant surprise when they get to the 50- 60 hour mark and then they are really magical once they get over 100 hours.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

krutsch said:


> Well, I think I've found my tube dealer. Made the brutal drive to Madison, Wisconsin through the tail-end of the giant storm hitting the US - 5 hours of snow and freezing rain. I literally saw 4 accidents along the way. I am a slave to my hobby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome A+  Thank you Krutsch.


----------



## longbowbbs

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> Well, I think I've found my tube dealer. Made the brutal drive to Madison, Wisconsin through the tail-end of the giant storm hitting the US - 5 hours of snow and freezing rain. I literally saw 4 accidents along the way. I am a slave to my hobby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


 Where in Madison is this place? What is the name of his shop?


----------



## joseph69

angelbelow said:


> Yeah, always been curious about the RS1s.


 
 For me the RS1i/PS1K are  my favorite HP's…and I like them both equally because for me they give 2 different types of listening and I enjoy what each has to give.


----------



## Khragon

stax-i-nox said:


> Well, to say I'm amazed is an understatement! Been listening to the newly arrived Elrog 300b's in the Woo WA5...with just 3 hours on them, the clarity, the lack of any harshness, the bass, the depth of the soundstage, is remarkable. To hear all these attributes through my AKG K1000, is literally astounding! I had to turn the Woo off...could not stop listening!! If they sounded like this after only 3 hours, can't imagine after 100+ hours. No wonder there is a run on this tube? Btw, Trueaudiophile.com where I purchased them, were great to deal with.


 
 So they're shipping the Elrog 300b already? haven't receive any email saying that from Trueaudiophile.com.  Looking forward to get mine.


----------



## Krutsch

longbowbbs said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Paragon on Monroe St. in Madison. I think he's been there since '85?


----------



## longbowbbs

krutsch said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 Thanks!


----------



## Stax-i-nox

My Elrog's were from the previous shipment...I was away on business and just got home.........I am just simply amazed at what I am hearing...detail detail detail, bass (the K1000's are not known for their bass....the Elrog has def changed that!)  The depth and width of the soundstage......really something. Will look forward even more to their further break-in!


----------



## Justin_Time

stax-i-nox said:


> My Elrog's were from the previous shipment...I was away on business and just got home.........I am just simply amazed at what I am hearing...detail detail detail, bass (the K1000's are not known for their bass....the Elrog has def changed that!)  The depth and width of the soundstage......really something. Will look forward even more to their further break-in!


 
 What is a good place to order from?  THANKS!


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Def Justin.....very knowledgeable....and they _know_ high-end!


----------



## Krutsch

Tube rolling day!
  
 Starting a new job pretty soon, and then all of this fun comes to an end... but, for now, my newest acquisitions: Western Electric 421a and Philips Heerlen "SQ" E288CC.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Tube rolling day!
> 
> Starting a new job pretty soon, and then all of this fun comes to an end... but, for now, my newest acquisitions: Western Electric 421a and Philips Heerlen "SQ" E288CC.


 
  
 Dumb question - is the WE421A pretty much the same thing as a WE422A rectifier? They look very similar.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

tonynewman said:


> Dumb question - is the WE421A pretty much the same thing as a WE422A rectifier? They look very similar.


 
  actually they are very similar but please don't let people take that the wrong way as these cannot be swapped. The WE422A rectifier was made by modifying the WE421A triode internally and removing the grids.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Am I getting my wires crossed? (actually tubes crossed). I thought the WE 421A was the king of the power tubes for 6080 circuits. Slightly better than the Tung-Sol 5998 (which I really want). Have I got that wrong???


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Am I getting my wires crossed? (actually tubes crossed). I thought the WE 421A was the king of the power tubes for 6080 circuits. Slightly better than the Tung-Sol 5998 (which I really want). Have I got that wrong???


 

 it is (i.e. the 421a); I am listening to mine now, in the 6080 circuit. The 422a is a rectifier, which removes the control grid, as described above.
  
 BTW:
  


> Slightly better than the Tung-Sol 5998 (which I really want).


 
  
 ... I am still burning in the 421a, but it really is an interesting tube. Paired with the Philips Heerlen E288CC, this combo is super quiet and clean (no noise, no hum, no ringing).
  
 As I keep listening, the bass is moving towards what I heard in the 5998, but without the tubey bloom to it (I actually preferred the bass with the TS 6520), and the clarity is insane. This is most solid state I've heard this amp sound, but very musical. More observations to follow as things burn-in.


----------



## kokushu

So for the woo audio 5 is it we 421a or 422a that we could use?


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> it is (i.e. the 421a); I am listening to mine now, in the 6080 circuit. The 422a is a rectifier, which removes the control grid, as described above.
> 
> BTW:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent. You have the best tubes available for those circuits. What Woo are you using? Sorry I missed it.


kokushu said:


> So for the woo audio 5 is it we 421a or 422a that we could use?


 
  
 Neither I think. WA5 is a 300B power circuit. Not 6080. I may be wrong.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Excellent. You have the best tubes available for those circuits. *What Woo are you using?* Sorry I missed it.
> 
> *Neither I think*. WA5 is a 300B power circuit. Not 6080. I may be wrong.


 
  
 Thanks. I am using a WA3 (see sig for current playback chain).
  
 I believe the WA5 can use the WE 422a rectifier tube.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Rude to ask I know. However do you mind me asking what you paid for the 421a?
  
 I have a friend in Madison (I talk to him daily) that visits that store. I might get him to pick up a couple for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Thanks. I am using a WA3 (see sig for current playback chain).
> 
> I believe the WA5 can use the WE 422a rectifier tube.


 
 Spot on. WE422A rectifier (if you are very fortunate to have them) and 300B output tubes in the WA5.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Rude to ask I know. However do you mind me asking what you paid for the 421a?
> 
> I have a friend in Madison (I talk to him daily) that visits that store. I might get him to pick up a couple for me.


 

 Sure... $440.00 for the matched pair. Looking at other eBay auctions, I feel like that was a steal, but we'll see what happens to the prices.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Sure... $440.00 for the matched pair. Looking at other eBay auctions, I feel like that was a steal, but we'll see what happens to the prices.


 

 That is a great price for a pair. Thanks.


----------



## Oskari

krutsch said:


> Philips Heerlen "SQ" E288CC.


 
  
 Does it have the Heerlen factory code? (I ask because I thought that these were usually made by Siemens.)


----------



## kokushu

Is the western electric 274b better than the 422a?  I could get either but never heard much about their 274b.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> Is the western electric 274b better than the 422a?  I could get either but never heard much about their 274b.


 
  
 I'd like to know the answer to this question too.
  
 My understanding is that either WE rectifier is superb and will make your audiophile nipples explode in delight, but is one better than the other?
  
 Inquiring minds would like to know


----------



## kokushu

Wallet doesn't like to know and that's the problem.  Wallet like to know which one and only get one.  My heart however would love to know first hand.  I also have a bunch of 7n7 coming.  This is a leap of faith and hope the 7n7 turn out good but for less than 100 dollars I get all the 7n7 I need for the rest of my life and in multiple different version too. 7n7 is too cheap right now; if it match other 6sn7gt and even if it doesn't quite match the ts bgrp level.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> Wallet doesn't like to know and that's the problem.  Wallet like to know which one and only get one.  My heart however would love to know first hand.  I also have a bunch of 7n7 coming.  This is a leap of faith and hope the 7n7 turn out good but for less than 100 dollars I get all the 7n7 I need for the rest of my life and in multiple different version too. 7n7 is too cheap right now; if it match other 6sn7gt and even if it doesn't quite match the ts bgrp level.


 
  
 There is a great write up on the WE422A by DubstepGirl in the rectifier thread. Nothing on the WE274B.
  
 Another option that might be on the table, given the pricing for vintage WEs, is the Takatsuki 274B. Also said to be stunningly good.
  
 I am having some success with the Tung-Sol 7N7. Burn in is progressing nicely - not stunning, but definitely on a rough par with the RCA 6SN7 so far. A decent driver. Needs a darker pairing than the RCA. The RCA is a warm driver, the Tung-Sol 7N7 definitely is not.


----------



## Porteroso

Just a word of caution, again. In the 7N7 tube, there were only 2 makers, NU and Sylvania. Sylvania made the vast majority of those tubes, and they made them in 3 iterations. So be careful about paying more for whatever brand, because the brand really does not matter. According to people who have used them, the tall glass are the best of the Sylvania. The NU are also great, and the NU are rebranded a bit, as well. It's worth looking into, to save yourself some money.


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> Just a word of caution, again. In the 7N7 tube, there were only 2 makers, NU and Sylvania. Sylvania made the vast majority of those tubes, and they made them in 3 iterations. So be careful about paying more for whatever brand, because the brand really does not matter. According to people who have used them, the tall glass are the best of the Sylvania. The NU are also great, and the NU are rebranded a bit, as well. It's worth looking into, to save yourself some money.


 
  
 Thank you - I didn't know that.
  
 I think mine might be re-branded Sylvanias. An OK tube, but nothing special.
  
 EDIT - checked the internals of the Tung-Sol 7N7s against a pair of NOS Sylvanias I have - they are definitely Sylvanias.


----------



## Porteroso

tonynewman said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > Just a word of caution, again. In the 7N7 tube, there were only 2 makers, NU and Sylvania. Sylvania made the vast majority of those tubes, and they made them in 3 iterations. So be careful about paying more for whatever brand, because the brand really does not matter. According to people who have used them, the tall glass are the best of the Sylvania. The NU are also great, and the NU are rebranded a bit, as well. It's worth looking into, to save yourself some money.
> ...


 
 I'm not sure any of them are really special. I've seen people who say the tall glass Sylvania, or the NU are very good, but never has anyone said that they match the best of the 6SN7, though I've also never seen someone compare them. It would be interesting, but I think the results would be what you would imagine. Still, for the price, if they can get close to the top end of 6SN7, and if you can find those tubes for basically pennies, it would be difficult to pass on that, if for no other reason than making your amp usable for posterity.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

It is worth emphasising that the vast majority of 7N7s are Sylvania, they uterly dominated this market and they were made well into the 70s if not 80s.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

This might be of help..........From the wooaudio.com site, a tube compatibility chart:
  
 https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ama6VqAKDF7adFlpSFh2ZDVMdnBfS2VpSUxfcEVpTnc&hl=en&output=html


----------



## Krutsch

oskari said:


> Does it have the Heerlen factory code? (I ask because I thought that these were usually made by Siemens.)


 

 Hmm... I don't know (RE: factory code), but from what I've read, Philips is known for the SQ brand (which are simply higher quality versions of the ExxCC models - they flipped the letters and numbers to indicate higher quality). It does seem to have characteristics I've read the tube should have: the 4 fold seams, the halo top-getter, taller bottle, white label ink...
  
I've also read that the E288CCs were often sold by Siemens but were really re-branded Philips tubes.
  
​I suppose they could be fakes, but they sure sound great and with zero noise. I also have a set of Telefunken E188CC which sound very good, maybe similar? (and these do have factory date codes and the diamond shape on the bottom of the glass).


----------



## kokushu

More 7n7 than what I know to do with.  There is short tube, tall tube, black glass, and chrome dome.  Hope I could find one of these to be worth while.  No big loss if they all just okay since it come pretty cheap anyway.


----------



## Krutsch

kokushu said:


> More 7n7 than what I know to do with.  There is short tube, tall tube, black glass, and chrome dome.  Hope I could find one of these to be worth while.  No big loss if they all just okay since it come pretty cheap anyway.


 
  
 You can never have too many tubes...


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> You can never have too many tubes...


 
 It's not an obsession, it's a hobby.


----------



## Stereolab42

kokushu said:


> More 7n7 than what I know to do with.  There is short tube, tall tube, black glass, and chrome dome.  Hope I could find one of these to be worth while.  No big loss if they all just okay since it come pretty cheap anyway.


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi Guys  - has anyone here dealt with JacMusic for tubes. I bought some EML 300bs from them and was speaking to Jac himself. I payed the money on Friday and he said that they would ship Monday but he has not answered any emails since and sent no tracking info. 
  
 Its Friday now and no tubes - it shouldn't take that long to get to Ireland from Europe. 
  
 Could someone maybe email him and see if he replies so I can find out if he is avoiding my emails. I think its strange that he has not replied since I payed the money on Friday. 
  
 Thanks 
  
  Paddy


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> It's not an obsession, it's a hobby.


 

 Verging on an addiction this end


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Hi Guys  - has anyone here dealt with JacMusic for tubes. I bought some EML 300bs from them and was speaking to Jac himself. I payed the money on Friday and he said that they would ship Monday but he has not answered any emails since and sent no tracking info.
> 
> Its Friday now and no tubes - it shouldn't take that long to get to Ireland from Europe.
> 
> ...


 
 Paddy,
  
 I know Jac slipped on some ice and broke his foot. He normally gets tracking out immediately. I will PM you his mobile no.
  
 If not there's a pair here if you need them.....


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Paddy,
> 
> I know Jac slipped on some ice and broke his foot. He normally gets tracking out immediately. I will PM you his mobile no.
> 
> If not there's a pair here if you need them.....


 
 I already payed him - the reason I didn't buy the tubes off you was mainly  because of shipping time from Oz - I need them for a meet this weekend.


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> I already payed him - the reason I didn't buy the tubes off you was mainly  because of shipping time from Oz - I need them for a meet this weekend.


 

 No worries , hope you get them soon and look forward to reading about your adventures with them.


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> No worries , hope you get them soon and look forward to reading about your adventures with them.


 
 I just called him there- he shipped yesterday - I'll have them next week.


----------



## magiccabbage

So In other news - I got the 6f8g's today to pair with the brimar rects. Still stock 300b but man the sound. Sweet****sticks!!!!!!!! 
 Can't wait for the EML's now


----------



## Moon2014

Today I also received my first pair of 6F8G (VT99) and I only can say WoW 

I think it is the first time I am hear the real magic of the WA5


----------



## musicman59

magiccabbage said:


> So In other news - I got the 6f8g's today to pair with the brimar rects. Still stock 300b but man the sound. Sweet****sticks!!!!!!!!
> Can't wait for the EML's now


 
 The round plates/black glass 6F8G tubes are my favorite drivers in my WA5-LE. I am running a pair of Tungsol with the EML 300B Mesh and Chemler U52 and love the sound.The flat plates (Sylvania) are very good too but 1 step behind the round plates.


----------



## magiccabbage

musicman59 said:


> The round plates/black glass 6F8G tubes are my favorite drivers in my WA5-LE. I am running a pair of Tungsol with the EML 300B Mesh and Chemler U52 and love the sound.The flat plates (Sylvania) are very good too but 1 step behind the round plates.


 
 Man - I am actually hearing stuff in the "Graceland" album that I never heard before; and not just a bit but a lot more. 
 I didn't think that was possible with driver tubes. This driver tube alone is having a bigger impact on the sound than any DAC I have tried. 
*VERY IMPRESSED. *
  
 I will post pics later.


----------



## Oskari

krutsch said:


> Hmm... I don't know (RE: factory code), but from what I've read, Philips is known for the SQ brand (which are simply higher quality versions of the ExxCC models - they flipped the letters and numbers to indicate higher quality). It does seem to have characteristics I've read the tube should have: the 4 fold seams, the halo top-getter, taller bottle, white label ink...
> 
> I've also read that the E288CCs were often sold by Siemens but were really re-branded Philips tubes.
> 
> ​I suppose they could be fakes, but they sure sound great and with zero noise. I also have a set of Telefunken E188CC which sound very good, maybe similar? (and these do have factory date codes and the diamond shape on the bottom of the glass).


 
  
 Fake is not something I suggested, rebrand is. In the case of E288CC, I believe it was Siemens making the tubes and Philips rebranding them.
  
 Siemens tubes have those seams, too. They should also have an etched code or a metal tag with the code (such as N6 2B) inside the tube.


----------



## magiccabbage

Listening to "captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboy" - my god the detail of the guitar in the right channel 
  
 These tubes - 6f8g are much more impressive than the 5998's or GEC 6as7g in my wa2 - AND THEY ARE DRIVERS!!!!!!! 
  
 crazy good. I cannot wait to get the EML 300b mesh now


----------



## Nic Rhodes

There is also quite a variety of 6F8G styles even in each make, i.e. Tung Sol round plate or flat plate, Raytheon  round plate, flat plate, triangular plates..you get the general idea!


----------



## kokushu

So I have to decide quick between western electric 274b or 422a for woo audio 5.  Man this is going to be tough.


----------



## Justin_Time

magiccabbage said:


> Man - I am actually hearing stuff in the "Graceland" album that I never heard before; and not just a bit but a lot more.
> I didn't think that was possible with driver tubes. This driver tube alone is having a bigger impact on the sound than any DAC I have tried.
> *VERY IMPRESSED. *
> 
> I will post pics later.



 


Agreed. Some (though not all) of the cuts on Graceland has phenomenal sound! Even on the Shure SE846, the bass was impressive. 

I also found that on th e Woo WA5, the driver tubes can change the sound of the amp significantly: the Sylvania 6SN7 brown bottom, Sophia Electric 6SN7, Shuguang (SP?) CV -181 Z Treasure grade A+ and Sylvania 6F8G all sounded different. I like the Shuguang best, but then again I have always been a sucker for the lush tube sound!


----------



## Krutsch

oskari said:


> Fake is not something I suggested, rebrand is. In the case of E288CC, I believe it was Siemens making the tubes and Philips rebranding them.
> 
> Siemens tubes have those seams, too. They should also have an etched code or a metal tag with the code (such as N6 2B) inside the tube.


 

 I was a little worried after your first post, and I found conflicting info on the web about these tubes. But I think you are correct: these are re-branded Siemens and I found the metal tag inside the tubes. Whew... to be honest, these are my best sounding drivers, incredible when paired with the Western Electric 421a power tube. Thanks for helping me better understand the history.


----------



## daverich4

For those fellow Head-Fiers that are a little bit older like me, give Lyn Stanley's new album Potions a listen. Covers of songs from the 50's with really good sound.


----------



## magiccabbage

nic rhodes said:


> There is also quite a variety of 6F8G styles even in each make, i.e. Tung Sol round plate or flat plate, Raytheon  round plate, flat plate, triangular plates..you get the general idea!


 
 Yea - I have black glass round plate with Glenn adapter. 


justin_time said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > Man - I am actually hearing stuff in the "Graceland" album that I never heard before; and not just a bit but a lot more.
> ...


 
 Graceland is an amazing recording alright but even with lesser recording like - "bridge over troubled water" where sometimes with the stock tubes I had slight treble glare on Paul's vocal - sssshhss sounds........... nearly completely gone by just replacing the driver tube.
  
 On some Loius Prima tracks the treble was even worse with his vocal and much improved by introducing the 6f8g's.
  
 My eyes have been opened with these (my favorite of all tubes so far) - directional cues, panning from left to right ear, detail and a more dynamic and engaging sound-stage are all things that I could easily notice with just 4 hours of listening today. 
  
 Before timbre was something that I didn't think warranted as much attention while listening as say something like - detail retrieval but now I realize just how important that is, but its very hard to explain how it is when you hear it. These tubes are just so enjoyable to listen to. I think I am beginning to understand what people mean when they say - " Musical as apposed to sounding HiFi" . Before those were only words but now they have so much meaning.


----------



## Stereolab42

daverich4 said:


> For those fellow Head-Fiers that are a little bit older like me, give Lyn Stanley's new album Potions a listen. Covers of songs from the 50's with really good sound.


 
  
 I loved her album "Lost In Romance", an absolute reference recording for me in hi-res. Bizarrely enough "Potions" is not available in a high-res download, not sure what they are thinking.


----------



## Oskari

krutsch said:


> I was a little worried after your first post, and I found conflicting info on the web about these tubes. But I think you are correct: these are re-branded Siemens and I found the metal tag inside the tubes. Whew... to be honest, these are my best sounding drivers, incredible when paired with the Western Electric 421a power tube. Thanks for helping me better understand the history.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: E288CC photo


 
  
 That's Siemens-made in Munich, no doubt about that. I was kind of hoping to see one made in Heerlen. I would have had to modify my beliefs.


----------



## daverich4

stereolab42 said:


> I loved her album "Lost In Romance", an absolute reference recording for me in hi-res. Bizarrely enough "Potions" is not available in a high-res download, not sure what they are thinking.


 

 Lost in Romance in hi-res is the reason that I bought Potions. I went back and forth on buying it for a couple of weeks because for some reason it's really expensive for a standard CD. I'm glad I finally glad I broke down and bought it. The sound is very good and it's a style of music and musician that I really enjoy.


----------



## Porteroso

Really excited to see if any of you end up with the same 6SN7 and 6F8G tubes, and give some input on any differences you might hear.
  
 edit: I really have got to get a better dac, mine gets noisier and noisier the longer it's on. Really impacts detail, not cool.


----------



## Stereolab42

daverich4 said:


> Lost in Romance in hi-res is the reason that I bought Potions. I went back and forth on buying it for a couple of weeks because for some reason it's really expensive for a standard CD. I'm glad I finally glad I broke down and bought it. The sound is very good and it's a style of music and musician that I really enjoy.


 
  
 I actually dropped Lyn an email, and she said a high-res download could happen in a month or so. Can't wait!


----------



## Krutsch

oskari said:


> That's Siemens-made in Munich, no doubt about that. I was kind of hoping to see one made in Heerlen. I would have had to modify my beliefs.


 

 Cool. I'll bite: what's the indicator of its origin?


----------



## Oskari

krutsch said:


> Cool. I'll bite: what's the indicator of its origin?


 
  
 Siemens because of the metal tag; Munich because that's where the Siemens tube factory was. 
  
 (Tungsram used those metal tags, too, but theirs were different: two digits only.)


----------



## Justin_Time

magiccabbage said:


> Yea - I have black glass round plate with Glenn adapter.
> Graceland is an amazing recording alright but even with lesser recording like - "bridge over troubled water" where sometimes with the stock tubes I had slight treble glare on Paul's vocal - sssshhss sounds........... nearly completely gone by just replacing the driver tube.
> 
> On some Loius Prima tracks the treble was even worse with his vocal and much improved by introducing the 6f8g's.
> ...


 
 And I thought I was the one with sonic hallucination!  How can a half-century old technology sound this good?  Thank you for confirming that I did not have audible illusion.
 Here is my current tube combination for the WA5:  EML rectifiers, 6F8G drivers and SE Royal Princess 300B (the Elrog are yet to be delivered...).  The Black Beast never sounded so good!


----------



## magiccabbage

justin_time said:


> And I thought I was the one with sonic hallucination!  How can a half-century old technology sound this good?  Thank you for confirming that I did not have audible illusion.
> Here is my current tube combination for the WA5:  EML rectifiers, 6F8G drivers and SE Royal Princess 300B (the Elrog are yet to be delivered...).  The Black Beast never sounded so good!


 
 Sweet stuff - you should take a pic of both chassis
  
 I will take lots of pics when my other tubes arrive.


----------



## Angelbelow

Noticed there was some discussion a few pages back on "socket savers" and I've noticed that some of these pictures have plugs that the tubes go on top of. Are socket savers beneficial or are those just adapters.


----------



## Porteroso

angelbelow said:


> Noticed there was some discussion a few pages back on "socket savers" and I've noticed that some of these pictures have plugs that the tubes go on top of. Are socket savers beneficial or are those just adapters.


 
 For the 6F8G, that is a heater pin. For 6SN7, that pin is down low with the rest. So with the Woo amps, everyone has to use adapters to get that wire up there. People are also using socket savers, which do help to reduce the wear and tear on the amp's sockets. I think 2 or 3 pages ago, I posted a picture of my 6F8G tubes, you can see what the top looks like.
  
 edit:


----------



## Krutsch

porteroso said:


> For the 6F8G, that is a heater pin. For 6SN7, that pin is down low with the rest. So with the Woo amps, everyone has to use adapters to get that wire up there. *People are also using socket savers, which do help to reduce the wear and tear on the amp's sockets.* I think 2 or 3 pages ago, I posted a picture of my 6F8G tubes, you can see what the top looks like.


 
  
 Socket-savers... interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Are many people using these? I don't recall seeing many photos with these in-place.
  
 Also, and I know I asked this one earlier, but any of you using tube dampers?
  
 Just curious...


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Socket-savers... interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Are many people using these? I don't recall seeing many photos with these in-place.
> 
> Also, and I know I asked this one earlier, but any of you using tube dampers?
> 
> Just curious...









Absolutely. Far easier to throw away a cheap socket save than get your amp repaired if a pin breaks off. I have these 5 for my amp and two spares.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Absolutely. Far easier to throw away a cheap socket save than get your amp repaired if a pin breaks off. I have these 5 for my amp and two spares.


 
  
 Would you recommend a brand and/or vendor? Thanks, in advance.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Would you recommend a brand and/or vendor? Thanks, in advance.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Gold-plated-tube-saver-adapter-for-EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6P3P-5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479?hash=item2c7f005607

These are excellent. Very nice dealer as well. Others have been tried by members and often have created problems.


----------



## musicman59

I just placed an order for a pair of WE422A for my WA5-LE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Now I just need my Elorg 300B to arrive!
 I guess it is time to reduce the collection and sell my backup 300B (EAT 300B) since I have the EML (main set), AVVT and the Elrog coming.


----------



## Angelbelow

badas said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Gold-plated-tube-saver-adapter-for-EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6P3P-5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479?hash=item2c7f005607
> 
> These are excellent. Very nice dealer as well. Others have been tried by members and often have created problems.


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Moon2014

musicman59 said:


> I just placed an order for a pair of WE422A for my WA5-LE  . Now I just need my Elorg 300B to arrive!
> I guess it is time to reduce the collection and sell my backup 300B (EAT 300B) since I have the EML (main set), AVVT and the Elrog coming.




I am interested in where you order the WE422A. It is difficult to find this tubes these days. 
In special here in Germany.

Thanks


----------



## musicman59

moon2014 said:


> I am interested in where you order the WE422A. It is difficult to find this tubes these days.
> In special here in Germany.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Got them from Paragon Video & Stereo in Madison Wisconsin.
 He has one or 2 pair left but with lower readings then mine. You can send him an email through his website.


----------



## Moon2014

musicman59 said:


> Got them from Paragon Video & Stereo in Madison Wisconsin.
> He has one or 2 pair left but with lower readings then mine. You can send him an email through his website.




Thank you for the Information I am just send an Email. Could you tell me how much did you pay for the pair maybe as a PM?

Thanks


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Gold-plated-tube-saver-adapter-for-EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6P3P-5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479?hash=item2c7f005607
> 
> These are excellent. Very nice dealer as well. Others have been tried by members and often have created problems.


 

 Ordered. Thanks for the tip. I also ordered some smaller ones for the 9-pin sockets (6922 circuit); we'll see how these work:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251815203195?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT​


----------



## Silent One

musicman59 said:


> I just placed an order for a pair of WE422A for my WA5-LE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Spring is in the air...early, apparently. Congrats!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

krutsch said:


> Ordered. Thanks for the tip. I also ordered some smaller ones for the 9-pin sockets (6922 circuit); we'll see how these work:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251815203195?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT​


 

  those are sockets and not savers, you would need to make your own savers from them. They would be the top half.


----------



## Krutsch

nic rhodes said:


> those are sockets and not savers, you would need to make your own savers from them. They would be the top half.


 

 I figured that out... after I ordered them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... DIY project in the making, I guess.


----------



## Badas

Great day yesterday Afternoon. TonyNewman and myself got together and had a system shootout with some headphones. Audeze LCD3C and LCDX, Senny HD800's (modified).
  
 What we found interesting. Oppo HA-1 Solid state is bright and can not compete with the WA22. To me by a long shot. Tony was impressed with the WA22 bass. I have listened to Tony's WA5 before and to me it was interesting to see the difference between the WA5 and WA22. Do doubt the WA5 is sweeter than the WA22. More powerful and it treats the treble with more respect. Clearer. Not sure if it was capacitors, Transformers or 300B tubes. Maybe all.
  
 I liked the Audeze LCDX. To me it was a Audeze product with HD800 treble. Not sure what Tony thought of my LCD3C. I think it was too dark for him. I will let him vouch for his thoughts on that and the WA22.
 HD800 is not my favorite headphone. However his modded one was the best version I have heard. I could not live with the HD800 and Oppo combo. Damn that was bright. Sounded good on the Woo tho.
  
 So a great Woo time. Woo was the best amp for every headphone. Thanks Tony for bringing some gear. It was a great geek out.


----------



## TonyNewman

> Originally Posted by *Badas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> I liked the Audeze LCDX. To me it was a Audeze product with HD800 treble. Not sure what Tony thought of my LCD3C. I think it was too dark for him. I will let him vouch for his thoughts on that and the WA22.


 
  
 LCD-3C has too much of the Audeze house sound for my tastes, but that is a personal preference. I can certainly understand why you love it.
  
 The modded HD800 is a different beast - very picky on the amp combination. When my 'final' batch of gear arrives I will go back to driving the HD800 from the speaker taps on the 845 Triode amp via the HiFiMan adapter box. That setup was stunning, and worth exploring more fully. Never heard a HD800 sing like that. Amazing.
  
 Really like the tube setup in the WA22. Proof that you can get stunning sound without blowing big bikkies on glass - not easy to do - but it is possible (at least possible if your amp doesn't use 300B output tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Don't know why 300Bs are so crazy expensive - but that is how it is.


----------



## Krutsch

^^^ I'm jealous... looks like a really great time.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> ^^^ I'm jealous... looks like a really great time.


 
  
 Huge Nerdgasms all over the shop...


----------



## Justin_Time

badas said:


> Great day yesterday Afternoon. TonyNewman and myself got together and had a system shootout with some headphones. Audeze LCD3C and LCDX, Senny HD800's (modified).
> 
> What we found interesting. Oppo HA-1 Solid state is bright and can not compete with the WA22. To me by a long shot. Tony was impressed with the WA22 bass. I have listened to Tony's WA5 before and to me it was interesting to see the difference between the WA5 and WA22. Do doubt the WA5 is sweeter than the WA22. More powerful and it treats the treble with more respect. Clearer. Not sure if it was capacitors, Transformers or 300B tubes. Maybe all.
> 
> ...




Badass & TonyNewman, thanks for sharing guys.

It has long been my contention, having owned and listened to about two dozen pairs of headphones and as many amps, that no component is perfect, avid fans's belief to the contrary notwithstanding. So the key to reaching sonic Nirvana is a careful matching of DAC, amp, HP and, to a lesser extent, cable.

1. Oppo. I fully agree with you that the Oppo HA-1 is bright. Actually, it may be a little worse: it has the typical sound of mid-tier SS designs of 20 years ago: good bass, articulated but a little edgy with extended but somewhat harsh treble. It is however a good match for the Oppo PM-1, which tends to sound a little closed-in, lacking the ultimate transparency of other top-end HP. I was pretty much crucified by Oppo devotees for daring to say these things in the Oppo forum. I guess I was being honest but not too smart with the choice of venue.

2. HD800. These HP have very high resolution so you need amps with very clean but smooth midrange and treble. A slow decay also adds rich overtones and helps keep the HD800 from sounding analytical or sterile. Many tube amps, especially SET, do very well with the HD800. The bass needs a little help. That is where musical but also powerful amps like the WooWA5 and GS-X Mk2 really excels. 

3. LCD3. Like all Audeze HP but to a lesser extent, the LCD3 has that caramel-coated sound that is addicting to many but keeps these HP from reaching the ultimate resolution and transparency. Amps with vivid , detailed sound like the Oppo and Schiit Mjolnir actually pair well with these cans though I much prefer their sound with the GS-X Mk2 or the Bakoon H-21, which deliver vivid details without the accompanying edginess or harshness. The Woo WA5 really excels here by providing the clarity and smoothness in the midrange without the dark veil and most of all by delivering that gonzo bass .


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> ....
> 
> 2. HD800. These HP have very high resolution so you need amps with very clean but smooth midrange and treble. A slow decay also adds rich overtones and helps keep the HD800 from sounding analytical or sterile. Many tube amps, especially SET, do very well with the HD800. The bass needs a little help. That is where musical but also powerful amps like the WooWA5 and GS-X Mk2 really excels.
> .....


 
  
 It was a big surprise to find how well the 845 SET speaker amp drove the HD800s from the speaker taps. I only plugged it into the HiFiMan adapter box as an experiment and expected a loud hum - which is what I get from the WA5 K1K socket with the HD800. Instead, the HD800 opened up beautifully and sang like I have never heard it before. Simply stunning sound. I had zero clue that the HD800 could even sound like that. It was a big step up from what the WA5 can do with the HD800.
  
 The setup used was:
  
 Digital source->Auralic Vega->Auralic Taurus Mk2 (as preamp)->Triod Corp TRV-845SE (as power amp) -> HiFiMan Adapter Box -> modded HD800.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> It was a big surprise to find how well the 845 SET speaker amp drove the HD800s from the speaker taps. I only plugged it into the HiFiMan adapter box as an experiment and expected a loud hum - which is what I get from the WA5 K1K socket with the HD800. Instead, the HD800 opened up beautifully and sang like I have never heard it before. Simply stunning sound. I had zero clue that the HD800 could even sound like that. It was a big step up from what the WA5 can do with the HD800.
> 
> The setup used was:
> 
> Digital source->Auralic Vega->Auralic Taurus Mk2 (as preamp)->Triod Corp TRV-845SE (as power amp) -> HiFiMan Adapter Box -> modded HD800.


 
  
 I can second this. I also listened when Tony just set this up.
  
 I nearly fainted. The HD800 sounded like a Audeze product. Even better.
  
 It was sell your soul to the devil sound.
  
 Tony said he spent a few more hours evaluating. If it was me I would have spent a few more days drooling.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I can second this. I also listened when Tony just set this up.
> 
> I nearly fainted. The HD800 sounded like a Audeze product. Even better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 All things in good time...
  
 As soon as I have my new class A/B power amp to drive the floorstanders (Accuphase P-4200), and Simaudio 430HA to act as preamp + SS headamp, I will be hooking the Taurus + Triode 845 SET up to the modded HD800 permanently (I would weld them together if that was practical).
  
 WA5 -> modded HE6
  
 845 SET -> modded HD800
  
 It is all part of my evil plan...


----------



## Khragon

Have you guy try WA5 -> Hifiman Adapter box -> HD800?
  
 Maybe going through the speaker tap and Hifiman adapter box will allow WA5 to elevate HD800?


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Have you guy try WA5 -> Hifiman Adapter box -> HD800?
> 
> Maybe going through the speaker tap and Hifiman adapter box will allow WA5 to elevate HD800?


 

 That is a good suggestion.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Have you guy try WA5 -> Hifiman Adapter box -> HD800?
> 
> Maybe going through the speaker tap and Hifiman adapter box will allow WA5 to elevate HD800?


 
  
 Interesting idea - haven't tried that. Will give it a go this evening and report back on results.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Interesting idea - haven't tried that. Will give it a go this evening and report back on results.


 
 Please report that it's crap so I can save my self some $$ from not having to buy the Hifiman adapter box .


----------



## kokushu

Have some 422a as my rectify now.  Let see if this tube could live up to the hype.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Very nice.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Have you guy try WA5 -> Hifiman Adapter box -> HD800?
> 
> Maybe going through the speaker tap and Hifiman adapter box will allow WA5 to elevate HD800?


 
  
 Had this going this afternoon - and it is rather good. Not quite the magic of the 845 SET amp speaker taps, but a heck of a lot better than the HPH output on the WA5.
  
 That annoying %&#@ hum that the K1K output gives with the HD800 is totally gone.
  
 The visceral body to the sound that you get from planars is there, and the dynamics are significantly better to my ears. At times I had to remind myself that this was my modded HD800, not my modded HE6 or LCD-X 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If you enjoy the HD800 from the WA5 I think 100 bucks for the adapter box is money very well spent.
  
 Some WA5 / HD800 porn for those that like that sort of thing (and who doesn't?):
  

  
 (this time with the flash off for the many photography critics out there) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For the tube rollers, I am using Brimar rectifiers with RCA 6SN7s and SERPs.
 This combination darkens the sound somewhat, which I like, and pairs nicely with the modded HD800.
 These tubes also give a hefty bass kick, for those that like a bit of punch.
  
 EDIT - I also tried the modded HE6 from the adapter box - that was a fail - much better from the K1K output.


----------



## kazsud

tonynewman said:


> LCD-3C has too much of the Audeze house sound for my tastes, but that is a personal preference. I can certainly understand why you love it.
> 
> The modded HD800 is a different beast - very picky on the amp combination. When my 'final' batch of gear arrives I will go back to driving the HD800 from the speaker taps on the 845 Triode amp via the HiFiMan adapter box. That setup was stunning, and worth exploring more fully. Never heard a HD800 sing like that. Amazing.
> 
> Really like the tube setup in the WA22. Proof that you can get stunning sound without blowing big bikkies on glass - not easy to do - but it is possible (at least possible if your amp doesn't use 300B output tubes :wink_face: ). Don't know why 300Bs are so crazy expensive - but that is how it is.




Have you speaker tapped the hd800s before?


----------



## TonyNewman

kazsud said:


> Have you speaker tapped the hd800s before?


 
  
 Nope - I was a HD800 speaker tap virgin - broke my cherry with the Triode 845 amp and now the WA5. Only 2 tubes amps so far, when I get the Accuphase P-4200 power amp I will try it with that also.
  
 Funny thing is that I had all the gear to do it for ages and never tried it with the HD800. It was almost done for a laugh with a buddy (Badas), but the results were staggering with the 845 SET.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> If you enjoy the HD800 from the WA5 I think 100 bucks for the adapter box is money very well spent.


 
  
 I'll bite.  Let me order one.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I'll bite.  Let me order one.


 
  
 Please let us know your thoughts after you have given it a try. It would be good to know it isn't just happening inside my head


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Tony, 
  
 I have a stock WA5, first production model in fact....been using it exclusively with the AKG K1000.....I now have a pair of Elrog 300B's...incredible sound at this point....never heard any other headphone with the WA5 (sans Elrog)........IF you were going to now venture into other headphones......what what you do?  Go with the HD800 and the Hi-fi man box out of the speaker taps, or an Audeze 3 or the X?......especially with the Elrog's in the circuit.


----------



## TonyNewman

stax-i-nox said:


> Tony,
> 
> I have a stock WA5, first production model in fact....been using it exclusively with the AKG K1000.....I now have a pair of Elrog 300B's...incredible sound at this point....never heard any other headphone with the WA5 (sans Elrog)........IF you were going to now venture into other headphones......what what you do?  Go with the HD800 and the Hi-fi man box out of the speaker taps, or an Audeze 3 or the X?......especially with the Elrog's in the circuit.


 
  
 Congrats on the Elrogs!! ** drool ** 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope to do those in 300B and 845 next year (finances permitting - those are some pricey tubes).
  
 That's a tough question. I hope some other forumites chip in with their thoughts too - lots of sharper minds than mine out there.
  
 I would be really tempted to grab a HE6, particularly if they are about to be replaced by the HE1000 - some bargain sales might be coming later in the year. After modding, the HE6 is a _*stunning*_ headphone from the WA5 K1K port and fantastic value. Or wait for the HE1000, assuming it will be as great as folks expect it will be.
  
 HD800 from the HiFiMan speaker box is very, very good. Also good from the HPH outlet, but better from the speaker taps (as I found out today). I would mod the HD800 - easy to do and it tames the treble nicely.
  
 I like my LCD-X from the WA5 (HPL output) but I generally prefer it from a high quality solid state amp like my Taurus Mk2. LCD-3 is not my cup of tea as I find the midrange coloration a bit too intrusive, but that is a personal preference only - lots of folks love it and adore this headphone.
  
 Have you got the chance to try some headphone combinations on your WA5 before committing to buy? That would be the ideal case - no substitute for hearing it first hand.
  
 If it was my money I would have a long, hard look at the modded HE6 and modded HD800 (with the HiFiMan speaker tap box for the HD800). Either delivers the sonic goodness in buckets.
  
 For Plug&Play satisfaction either of the Audeze offerings would do the job nicely - which one depends on your tastes.
  
 I have zero experience with other cans (Grados etc) so cannot make any comment on those.
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## kazsud

tonynewman said:


> Nope - I was a HD800 speaker tap virgin - broke my cherry with the Triode 845 amp and now the WA5. Only 2 tubes amps so far, when I get the Accuphase P-4200 power amp I will try it with that also.
> 
> Funny thing is that I had all the gear to do it for ages and never tried it with the HD800. It was almost done for a laugh with a buddy (Badas), but the results were staggering with the 845 SET.




What Triode 845 amp is it?


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Had this going this afternoon - and it is rather good. Not quite the magic of the 845 SET amp speaker taps, but a heck of a lot better than the HPH output on the WA5.
> 
> That annoying %&#@ hum that the K1K output gives with the HD800 is totally gone.
> 
> ...




When I wrote several months ago that I liked the sound of the HD800 a lot with the WA5, there were many skeptics in the HD800 threads.
I am glad you are confirming this finding: the HD800 through the speaker outputs of the WA5--I also used the HE adapter--can deliver incredible sound. I particularly liked the bass slam and the macrodynamics. It is amazing what a sweet midrange and a huge power supply can do.

I have successfully tried the WA5 speaker outputs with the HE-6 as well. I found the improvement over the K1K output noticeable, but not as large as you do.

I have also tried a large number of speaker amps with the HE6 (Krell 300xi and 400 xi, First Watt M2 and J2, Pass Aleph 3, Threshold Stasis S300, Conrad-Johnson MV75, BAT VK75SE...) all well respected SS and tube amps from the 80s and 90s. The surprised winner was the lowly Harmon Kardon HK775, a pair of sad-looking monoblocks amps I bought for $200 each! They were completely restored, recapped and re-biased for reliability, and with upgraded power cords, RCA connectors and binding posts for $1,000. I was going to use them (two pairs, bridged for 400 watts per channel ) to feed my always hungry speakers, the Magnaplanar 3.7. The sound of the HE-6 out of these forgotten HK amps was simply astounding: smooth, airy, ultra dynamic but completely relaxing. Gone was the edgy, nervous energy typically heard with these planar headphones.

I was somewhat sad to see my beloved Woo WA5 with upgraded parts and tubes (about $6,000 total expense) be outperformed by a mass-produced SS amp (less than $1,500 total costs). But that's the deal: it is not about how good or how expensive each component is, but how well the components are matched. The Woo WA5 still performs very well with both the HD800 and the HE-6 and look more impressive than any other audio gear I own.


----------



## magiccabbage

Got my EML 300b's today - something strange is happening. When I turn the volume past 12 with no music playing i hear this humming in the right channel...... anyone know what that is? 
 Does the amp have to be biased for these tubes or maybe its a faulty tube?


----------



## TonyNewman

kazsud said:


> What Triode 845 amp is it?


 
  
 Triode Corp TRV-845SE integrated. I run it as a power amp with my Taurus as premap, as it can become a little syrupy as an integrated.
  
 It really is the Triode TRV-P845SE power amp with a not so great line stage tacked on - makes for a great power amp - except that it throws out 200W (or more) of heat continuously. That heat can get hard to bear in summer.


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> ....





> I have successfully tried the WA5 speaker outputs with the HE-6 as well. I found the improvement over the K1K output noticeable, but not as large as you do.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have tried the HE6 from the adapter box using the WA5 and 845 SET amp - I prefer the K1K output in both cases. Sorry if my earlier posts didn't make that clear (English is my first and only language, but sometimes it is hard to tell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
  
 For me, the WA5 K1K output beat the WA5 adapter box significantly. Hard to be specific, but I wasn't getting that visceral body to the sound as much with the adapter box and some of the dynamics seemed to suffer also.
  
 The 845 SET with the adapter box was much closer to the K1K output, but I still prefer the K1K output.
  
 I can only guess that the resistors in the adapter box meant that the HE6 was struggling to get all the juice it needed. It does take significantly more gain to get the same volume level via the adapter box than via the K1K output on the WA5. Perhaps wiring directly to the speaker posts would change that, but I'm not sure that is a good idea with a tube amp - not a risk I want to take when the K1K output does such a great job.
  
 The 845 SET amp driving the modded HD800 via the adapter box is a revelation. I find myself drawn to it - wonderful sound without the weight of the modded HE6 on my head - the headphones really do disappear and you float away on the music. My modded HE6 is still the best performing headphone I have, but the 845 + HD800 rig comes close, with much better comfort. WA5 + HD800 via the adapter box is no slouch either.
  
 Very happy with the outcome as my HD800 was a little unloved before trying it via the adapter box. Now I have huge respect for it.


----------



## magiccabbage

magiccabbage said:


> Got my EML 300b's today - something strange is happening. When I turn the volume past 12 with no music playing i hear this humming in the right channel...... anyone know what that is?
> Does the amp have to be biased for these tubes or maybe its a faulty tube?


 
 Problem solved...... it was the 6f8g it distorts past 12 on the volume wheel - not that I ever listen that loud. Actually maybe with speakers I would push to 1 o'clock and I suppose that I'll have to use different 6sn7 for that purpose.
  
 Has anyone else had 6f8g clipping??


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> I have tried the HE6 from the adapter box using the WA5 and 845 SET amp - I prefer the K1K output in both cases. Sorry if my earlier posts didn't make that clear (English is my first and only language, but sometimes it is hard to tell
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


English ismy third language, so I can always use that as a crutch--or was excuse the word I was looking for?

The HE box use a 10-ohm resistor in parallel (to protect the tube amps, mostly). It uses a resistor in series as well to reduce the output to the HP--in my HE box, it measured 24 ohms. This may be what reduced the gain in your experience. You can easily replace that with a lower-value resistor.

J_T


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > I have tried the HE6 from the adapter box using the WA5 and 845 SET amp - I prefer the K1K output in both cases. Sorry if my earlier posts didn't make that clear (English is my first and only language, but sometimes it is hard to tell " src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies/wink.gif"> ).
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info. I'm happy with the box as is. It works beautifully with the HD800 and I am more than satisfied with the HE6 from the K1K port.
  
 Happiness for both headphones - now what do to with the LCD-X? I'm hoping that my 430HA (when I get it) will provide a great pairing.


----------



## abvolt

I have question for all owners of the WA7, Lets say you were planning to buy a new Woo amp for an upgrade to your current WA7, Which Woo amp would you consider. The fancy WA5 & WA5-LE really goes without saying unless that the only upgrade you have in mind.


----------



## Stereolab42

magiccabbage said:


> Problem solved...... it was the 6f8g it distorts past 12 on the volume wheel - not that I ever listen that loud. Actually maybe with speakers I would push to 1 o'clock and I suppose that I'll have to use different 6sn7 for that purpose.
> 
> Has anyone else had 6f8g clipping??


 
  
 I had this exact same problem with 6F8Gs in the WA5, the problem was the adapter. I was using the brass-base adapters, they had a grounding issue of some sort. Once I switched to all-plastic adapters, no problem.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

My take,
  
 The lust-for-WA5/LE will always bug you if you get anything less.  So might as well cough-up the doughs and get it now.  Besides, why get WA22 now to later upgrade to WA5 (just waste more $$)?


----------



## Clayton SF

Testing 1-2-3. Can anyone read me?
 Raytheon 6F8G, Testing, Precision Tube Master 10-12, Tube and Battery Tester.


----------



## Badas

^

Very cool.


----------



## Stereolab42

Yup. Anyone with a significant investment in tubes should get a good tester.


----------



## magiccabbage

stereolab42 said:


> I had this exact same problem with 6F8Gs in the WA5, the problem was the adapter. I was using the brass-base adapters, they had a grounding issue of some sort. Once I switched to all-plastic adapters, no problem.


 
 Problem solved since that post - I had to pair the 6f86 with a glenn adapter. By which I mean there is a right a left on the 6f8g tube and also right and left on the adapter. I had the adapter in the right and left slot but the tube was configured - left in right and right in left.
  
 So I fixed it ¬
  
 right tube in right adapter in right socket - left tube in left adapter left socket 
  
  
 It was totally my own fault for not reading the message properly. All is good now and the combo sounds amazing!!!!


----------



## musicman59

magiccabbage said:


> Problem solved since that post - I had to pair the 6f86 with a glenn adapter. By which I mean there is a right a left on the 6f8g tube and also right and left on the adapter. I had the adapter in the right and left slot but the tube was configured - left in right and right in left.
> 
> So I fixed it ¬
> 
> ...


 
 I have never heard about that. I have been using 6F8G tubes and Gelnn's adapters for years abd have never heard about specific tube and adapter per channel nor I have had a problem switching them around. Hummm


----------



## Khragon

Have you used TS BGRP 6F8G? this one seem to be sensitive with Woo WA5.  I've been having the same problem using woo adapter, but glenn adapter fixes it for me.


----------



## musicman59

sko0bydoo said:


> My take,
> 
> The lust-for-WA5/LE will always bug you if you get anything less.  So might as well cough-up the doughs and get it now.  Besides, why get WA22 now to later upgrade to WA5 (just waste more $$)?


 
  I agree. 5 years ago I decided to get a Woo amplifier and since my systems are fully balanced I had my sights on the WA22. I went to CanJan in Chicago just with the purpose to listen to the WA22. Met Jack there and listen to the WA22 with my own balanced T1 headphones first. Jack told me that I should listen to the WA5-LE that even it is a single ended amplifier it is superior than the WA22.
  
 Fortunately I had with me the matching adapter to my Zeus balanced cable so  I moved over to the WA5-LE and wow! it was a significant difference. I have never heard the T1 sounding that good. I went back and forth between both amps and not long after my mind was set. I was ordering the WA5-LE (the HE-6 were not even out back then otherwise I would have ordered the WA5).
  
 The following week I crossed some emails with Jack and end up ordering the WA5-LE with electronic parts upgrade, sockets upgrade, tubes upgrade, WBT Nextgen RCAs and even send him Neotech OCC Copper wire and Cardas Eutetic silver solder for all the internal wiring. 
  
 I still love my amp!


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> Have you used TS BGRP 6F8G? this one seem to be sensitive with Woo WA5.  I've been having the same problem using woo adapter, but glenn adapter fixes it for me.


 
 Yes, I have two pairs of the TS BGRP and two pairs that are TS rebranded.
  I had the Woo adapters too (at the same time with Glenn's) and the Woo weer inducting noise. I sent them to Glenn and he replaced the wire for the grip cap for a better one and the issue went away. Since then I sold the Woo adapters and stayed with Glenn's.


----------



## magiccabbage

The EML 300b's have 11 hours on them now - they are nice and silky, such an improvement over the stock. 
 Listening to ray charles - come rain or shine.............. man this is the life!!


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> The EML 300b's have 11 hours on them now - they are nice and silky, such an improvement over the stock.
> Listening to ray charles - come rain or shine.............. man this is the life!!


 
  
 Glass encased dog droppings would be a big improvement over stock tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congratulations on entering the world of 300B tube rolling. Your ears will love it, your wallet will not


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Glass encased dog droppings would be a big improvement over stock tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Glass encased dog droppings would be a big improvement over stock tubes


 
  
 Yeah, why do they do that?
  
 With a bit of effort they could get reasonable NOS tubes for not much $$.
  
 I cringe at the sight of their amps on display at trade shows with those stock tubes. They could be turning potential customers away.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yeah, why do they do that?
> 
> With a bit of effort they could get reasonable NOS tubes for not much $$.
> 
> I cringe at the sight of their amps on display at trade shows with those stock tubes. They could be turning potential customers away.


 
  
 Makes no sense to me either. Amps worth thousands of dollars with craptastic tubes in them. You are getting a very small fraction of the potential of these amps with the stock tubes.
  
 Mid level Shuguangs are not _*that *_expensive and are decent performers - the HiFi series, for example. These are OK tubes, and a long way better than those horrid stock abominations.
  
 Those stock tubes, especially the rectifiers and 300Bs, make me want to stuff my junk in a bacon slicer.


----------



## Krutsch

In other news, down on the low-end of tube rolling... Today I received my newly manufactured Telefunken E88CC-TK "Black Diamond" driver tubes from Tube Depot dot com (which I am impressed with, BTW - I asked for a matched pair and they wrote test values for each on the top of the boxes).
  
 Cost effective, but I am curious where these were actually manufactured... no diamond on the bottom of the glass, but maybe that's over with for new tubes from Telefunken.
  
 Trying them with the Western Electric 421a; about 10 minutes of burn-in, so impressions to follow. I am curious to see if the new tubes can hold their own against the NOS Siemens E288CC or the NOS Telefunken E188CC.
  

  
 EDIT: 2 hours later, the Telefunken E88CC-TK are absolutely holographic (not sure how else to describe them) ... comparison w/ NOS tubes happens tomorrow.


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> Problem solved since that post - I had to pair the 6f86 with a glenn adapter. By which I mean there is a right a left on the 6f8g tube and also right and left on the adapter. I had the adapter in the right and left slot but the tube was configured - left in right and right in left.
> 
> So I fixed it ¬
> 
> ...




Glenn labeled mine left and right. He knew I wouldn't read his instructions.


----------



## daverich4

musicman59 said:


> I have never heard about that. I have been using 6F8G tubes and Gelnn's adapters for years abd have never heard about specific tube and adapter per channel nor I have had a problem switching them around. Hummm




It makes a difference in my WA22. Using them as intended puts the wires on the outside. Used that way the tubes are dead silent. Swapping them so the wires are on the insides gives me a very noticeable hum.


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> Glenn labeled mine left and right. He knew I wouldn't read his instructions.


 
 He labelled mine as well - that was not the problem. There were numbers on the tubes that correlate to the left and right adapter - I needed to sort them in the right order and then fix the adapter to the left and right socket. 
  
 I had - *right tube in left adapter/ left tube in right adapter*
*                            ¬                                    ¬*
*           left adapter in left socket/ right adapter in right socket *
  
 you see where I went wrong?


----------



## magiccabbage

New glass


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> He labelled mine as well - that was not the problem. There were numbers on the tubes that correlate to the left and right adapter - I needed to sort them in the right order and then fix the adapter to the left and right socket.
> 
> I had - *right tube in left adapter/ left tube in right adapter*
> *                            ¬                                    ¬*
> ...


 

 Ummm, no, I don't. I don't understand what you mean by right and left tubes. The position of the adapter determines whether the wire will be to the outside or the inside so that makes sense but why would it make any difference which tube was in the adapter?


----------



## magiccabbage

daverich4 said:


> Ummm, no, I don't. I don't understand what you mean by right and left tubes. The position of the adapter determines whether the wire will be to the outside or the inside so that makes sense but why would it make any difference which tube was in the adapter?


 
 the tubes came with a number that correlate with left and right - i will upload a pic later explaining


----------



## magiccabbage

sweet mother of **** - just plugged the LCD3 in the WA5 with the new tubes!!! My god the sound!!!


----------



## Khragon

I don't think it's L/R specifically matter, it's just that's the configuration that's work with out producing noise, I don't know why. Look like the tube orientation have something to do with it.
 WA5 is specifically sensitive to 6F8G and adapters.
  
 Beautiful pics by the way.


----------



## Justin_Time

magiccabbage said:


> sweet mother of **** - just plugged the LCD3 in the WA5 with the new tubes!!! My god the sound!!!



 


Sorry I missed the earlier posts: which tubes?

Inquiring mind wants to know...


----------



## kokushu

Hey, magic cabbage you have almost the same setup I have right now. I use to have the eml 300b mesh/tung sol bgrp 6f8g/ brimar 5z4g in my Woo Audio 5.  It was good for a while but I decide to go back to the sylvania bad boy.  Between the sylvania and ts 6f8g there is only little difference.  I basically trade a little bit or mid for more air.  The reason I am writing this is to tell you that if you have a chance get the Western Electric 422a.  Since I got it recently it have been the biggest different of any tube I replace of the stock tube.  Of course all of this is with the HD 800.  I am not good with describing the sound but it just sound more balance and airy.  The detail also increase by a lot and its probably because of the balance in sound now.  I do feel that it lose a little bit of bass slam but not extension.  Overall thought the 422a is the one tube where I plug in and I didn't have to focus hard to notice the difference.  I don't even think the 422a is burn in yet either so maybe it could get even better.  I recently also got a hold of ken rad 62n7gt and trying it over the sylvania.  I will get back on that tube later.


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Makes no sense to me either. Amps worth thousands of dollars with craptastic tubes in them. You are getting a very small fraction of the potential of these amps with the stock tubes.
> 
> Mid level Shuguangs are not _*that *_expensive and are decent performers - the HiFi series, for example. These are OK tubes, and a long way better than those horrid stock abominations.
> 
> Those stock tubes, especially the rectifiers and 300Bs, make me want to stuff my junk in a bacon slicer.



 


The answer seems fairly simple to me: Avoid Sticker Shock!

This is similar to the way cars are sold in the US. They lure you in with the low price of the basic model then hit you with option (luxury) packages.

Let's take the Woo WA5-LE: basic model with crappy tubes $2,750--and do not forget the crappy, uh, I meant so-so quality parts. 

Now, while some of us may not even think twice about paying that price, it gives many (perhaps most) of us pause. Do I want to spend that much money on a headphone amp? Nevertheless, this relatively " low" price has probably enticed some to take the plunge who may not have done so at a higher sticker price.

Now comes the option packages: Sophia Princess 300B Matched pair $1,200; Sylvania 6SN7 WGT Matched pair: $300; Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier $320.

If these upgraded tubes were included as part of the basic WA5-LE--to make the amp sound the way it should--the total price would be $4,570! If this were the entry price for the WA5-LE, many of us, myself included, would have balked. 

And also remember that you still have the "crappy," no, I meant acceptable parts in the critical areas. To get the "good" parts and the best sound that the WA5 "deserves" you need to shell out another $1,200, which bring the total to $5,770--and you don't get the good teflon sockets at that low, low price  

So, which entry price would help to sell more WA5-LE? $2,750, $4,570 or $5,770?

Of cource once you're hooked, thanks in large part to the lure of the low initial price of $2,750, you will end up spending a lot more than the additional $1,820 for the upgraded tubes (in my case, way over $2,500 trying various tubes: SE Royal Princess, EML, Elrog, Sylvania, Shuaguang Treasure, ..). But that is spread over a period of a few years so the pain was not quite as apparent as the initial sticker shock of $4,570. Perhaps that is why I never bought the Apex Pinnacle because $10,000 is just too much money to spend on any amp to me, though f course I end up spending way more than that buying many other "affordable" amps, way more than I need.

One positive thing about the basic model with crappy tubes it that it gives me the freedom to tailor the sound of the amp to my liking with tubes of my choice. Of course this freemdom to chose comes at a high price.

I hope this makes sense to you. It does to me. BTW, I do not mean to imply any unethical behavior on the part of Woo. Far from it. This is simply sound business strategy that is employed in a wide range of business.


----------



## magiccabbage

khragon said:


> I don't think it's L/R specifically matter, it's just that's the configuration that's work with out producing noise, I don't know why. Look like the tube orientation have something to do with it.
> WA5 is specifically sensitive to 6F8G and adapters.
> 
> Beautiful pics by the way.


 







justin_time said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > sweet mother of **** - just plugged the LCD3 in the WA5 with the new tubes!!! My god the sound!!!
> ...


 
 EML 300b - TS BGRP 6f8g - Brimar rect from langrex. Sound is incredible - boy was I wrong about this headphone..... It has such a beautiful tone!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

kokushu said:


> Hey, magic cabbage you have almost the same setup I have right now. I use to have the eml 300b mesh/tung sol bgrp 6f8g/ brimar 5z4g in my Woo Audio 5.  It was good for a while but I decide to go back to the sylvania bad boy.  Between the sylvania and ts 6f8g there is only little difference.  I basically trade a little bit or mid for more air.  The reason I am writing this is to tell you that if you have a chance get the Western Electric 422a.  Since I got it recently it have been the biggest different of any tube I replace of the stock tube.  Of course all of this is with the HD 800.  I am not good with describing the sound but it just sound more balance and airy.  The detail also increase by a lot and its probably because of the balance in sound now.  I do feel that it lose a little bit of bass slam but not extension.  Overall thought the 422a is the one tube where I plug in and I didn't have to focus hard to notice the difference.  I don't even think the 422a is burn in yet either so maybe it could get even better.  I recently also got a hold of ken rad 62n7gt and trying it over the sylvania.  I will get back on that tube later.


 
 Wont be buying anymore tubes for a few months, the next on my list will be the Elrog 300b. The 422a I might get someday or maybe the U52.


----------



## Khragon

I need to stop reading this forum, really! LCD3 sounds angelic now too? how many HPs does one person need? haha..


----------



## Justin_Time

khragon said:


> I need to stop reading this forum, really! LCD3 sounds angelic now too? how many HPs does one person need? haha..



 


Confucius said "a person with one pair of headphonhes knows what music sounds like, a person with several pairs is never sure."

J_T


----------



## Z06_Pilot

justin_time said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I need to stop reading this forum, really! LCD3 sounds angelic now too? how many HPs does one person need? haha..
> ...


 
 ah, very nice!


----------



## Khragon

justin_time said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I need to stop reading this forum, really! LCD3 sounds angelic now too? how many HPs does one person need? haha..
> ...




Haha nice adaptation.. Of course Confucius never read headfi.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

magiccabbage said:


> New glass


 

 A++   Awesome photos magiccabbage


----------



## Stax-i-nox

The new Elrog 300B's....I wonder if tube dampers should be used on the Elrog's?....anyone tried that yet?


----------



## reeltime

justin_time said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Makes no sense to me either. Amps worth thousands of dollars with craptastic tubes in them. You are getting a very small fraction of the potential of these amps with the stock tubes.
> ...


 
  
 I did one better... Found a used WA5LE on eBay with stock tubes for $1700.  Suddenly tube upgrades weren't really a big deal, in the larger picture.


----------



## Stereolab42

Just picked up (another) pair of pristine 1944 RCA VT-231 greys from a trusted seller for about $100. Looks like in my reality, WWII never ended!


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Just picked up (another) pair of pristine 1944 RCA VT-231 greys from a trusted seller for about $100. Looks like in my reality, WWII never ended!


 
  
 Congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I use RCA 6SN7s quite a bit - really like the warmth and bass extension. Do you know if the RCA VT-231s have a similar sound to the RCA 6SN7s?


----------



## magiccabbage

bonesy jonesy said:


> A++   Awesome photos magiccabbage


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure, I just own RCA VT-231s and VT-99s. They do have that nice warmth actually, so probably yes.


----------



## Justin_Time

reeltime said:


> I did one better... Found a used WA5LE on eBay with stock tubes for $1700.  Suddenly tube upgrades weren't really a big deal, in the larger picture.


 
 +1


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Upgraded to the Chatham 2399. They sound so much better than the TS7236. One was a little microphonic but Herbie's tube dampeners seem to have cured that issue.


----------



## Badas

^^^^

Very nice. Great looking pics.

2399 is like a 5998 isn't it?


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Very nice. Great looking pics.
> 
> 2399 is like a 5998 isn't it?


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


>


 
  
 Nice picture!!! Those internals look very WE-like to me. Is this a re-badged WE tube?


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Nice picture!!! Those internals look very WE-like to me. Is this a re-badged WE tube?


 
  
 I don't see the bottom D-getters I have on my 421a tubes, but otherwise they look very similar (or are these rectifiers?).
  
 Only repeating what I've heard, but... the WE tubes were screened for low noise for use in telephone systems.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Very nice. Great looking pics.
> 
> 2399 is like a 5998 isn't it?


 

 Thanks! Yep, Chatham 2399 is a rebranded Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## Krutsch

indiegradofan said:


> Upgraded to the Chatham 2399. They sound so much better than the TS7236. One was a little microphonic but Herbie's tube dampeners seem to have cured that issue.


 
  
 Nice looking glass... I've asked a couple of times about tube dampers, but haven't heard from anyone if people do / do not use tube dampers. I take it you've had a good experience with these?


----------



## IndieGradoFan

krutsch said:


> Nice looking glass... I've asked a couple of times about tube dampers, but haven't heard from anyone if people do / do not use tube dampers. I take it you've had a good experience with these?


 

 This is my first experience with tube dampers and I'm very happy with them. Without the dampers, one of the 2399s picked up vibrations from typing or moving my hands on my desk. With the dampers, that problem is solved. Highly recommended if you have a microphonic tube.


----------



## Krutsch

indiegradofan said:


> This is my first experience with tube dampers and I'm very happy with them. Without the dampers, one of the 2399s picked up vibrations from typing or moving my hands on my desk. With the dampers, that problem is solved. *Highly recommended if you have a microphonic tube.*


 

 Interesting... I *do* have a couple of tubes that exhibit some noise, but it sounds more like sensitivity to EMI/RFI instead of the physical vibration. I have a lot of gadgets nearby...
  
 I'm tempted to try these anyway.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

indiegradofan said:


> Upgraded to the Chatham 2399. They sound so much better than the TS7236. One was a little microphonic but Herbie's tube dampeners seem to have cured that issue.


 

 A+ Great pics IndieGradoFan


----------



## Oskari

krutsch said:


> In other news, down on the low-end of tube rolling... Today I received my newly manufactured Telefunken E88CC-TK "Black Diamond" driver tubes from Tube Depot dot com (which I am impressed with, BTW - I asked for a matched pair and they wrote test values for each on the top of the boxes).
> 
> Cost effective, but I am curious where these were actually manufactured... no diamond on the bottom of the glass, but maybe that's over with for new tubes from Telefunken.


 
  
 JJ. It's not a secret.
  

http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/


----------



## MIKELAP

krutsch said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Nice picture!!! Those internals look very WE-like to me. Is this a re-badged WE tube?
> ...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

indiegradofan said:


> Upgraded to the Chatham 2399. They sound so much better than the TS7236. One was a little microphonic but Herbie's tube dampeners seem to have cured that issue.


 
  
 Gorgeous!!!!  Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Krutsch

oskari said:


> JJ. It's not a secret.
> 
> 
> http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/


 

 Thanks... I found that after posting. They really are nice sounding tubes.


----------



## Krutsch

mikelap said:


>


 
  
 Sorry... I must be missing something. I am talking about these things (see arrows I drew in the photo); do your tubes have something similar, I can't see them in your photo?


----------



## MIKELAP

krutsch said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Like on picture no getter at bottom


----------



## Krutsch

mikelap said:


> Like on picture no getter at bottom


 
  
 Oh, OK... sorry, I thought your posted photo w/o caption meant they are the same and I became confused.


----------



## musicman59

Some new glass. 300b AVVT, Mullard ECC32 and WE422a. They sound fantastic!


----------



## Krutsch

musicman59 said:


> Some new glass. 300b AVVT, Mullard ECC32 and WE422a. They sound fantastic!


 
  
 Sweet! Did you get the WE 422a from my guy in Madison?


----------



## musicman59

krutsch said:


> Sweet! Did you get the WE 422a from my guy in Madison?


 
 Yes. Thank you for the tip. He is a very nice guy and a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## reeltime

Just picked up a matched pair of metal base GZ34s on eBay.  Hoping to get the same magic out of them in my WA5LE as I did in my WA6 of old.  Pairing them with the Elrog 300B.


----------



## isquirrel

musicman59 said:


> Some new glass. 300b AVVT, Mullard ECC32 and WE422a. They sound fantastic!


 
 Great valves, after a pair of WE422a's myself.


----------



## isquirrel

Finally took Matt's advice and bought a media server to replace the computer. Well holy s**t ! Wish I had listened to him earlier, what a difference.
  
 The sound is so much clearer, richer and although I wasn't aware of noise before clearly there was some because now sounds emerge from this dead silent back ground.
  
 The Elrog's now have 160 hours on them and have fully stabilised with SQ. The Takatsukis 300B's are next to fully run in.


----------



## Khragon

Anyone find the WA5 HPH output slightly noisy with HD800? I can hear very vaguely some noise if I concentrate at 0 volume.
 HPL have no issue at all up to max volume.


----------



## preproman

isquirrel said:


> Finally took Matt's advice and bought a media server to replace the computer. Well holy s**t ! Wish I had listened to him earlier, what a difference.
> 
> The sound is so much clearer, richer and although I wasn't aware of noise before clearly there was some because now sounds emerge from this dead silent back ground.
> 
> The Elrog's now have 160 hours on them and have fully stabilised with SQ. The Takatsukis 300B's are next to fully run in.


 
  
  
 I guess you had a difference experience than this guy?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/741674/antipodes-dx-music-server


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Great valves, after a pair of WE422a's myself.


 

 I think I already sent you via PM Steve's contact info ... I believe he has additional WE 422a tubes.
  
 Why don't you reach out to him and see if the price is right?


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Finally took Matt's advice and bought a media server to replace the computer. Well holy s**t ! Wish I had listened to him earlier, what a difference.
> 
> The sound is so much clearer, richer and although I wasn't aware of noise before clearly there was some because now sounds emerge from this dead silent back ground.


 
  
 I used to snicker at statements like that, but I am now a believer. Being on the low-end of things, I took a different approach - but the end result was similar: removing the PC/Mac from the playback chain yielded real results, as you describe. After years of screwing around, I am finished with computer audio for playback (obviously, not for management).
  
 For the curious... I use a Denon DNP-720AE (which I will replace, at some point). I removed the stock feet and replaced with isolator blocks and covered the top with a sorbathane sheet. Then, I connect it to my DAC with a short, quartz fiber TOSLINK cable (I like optical for isolation; I tried different cables and I've found that going high-end matters to prevent ALL drop-outs).
  
 I use an Apple Airport Express, placed way from everything, with the single ethernet connection into the Denon player. This isolates network activity into the Denon from everything but it's own traffic. I use a CAT-7 cable for its shielding.
  
 Finally, I run a Mac Mini, directly situated with my router, with fast outboard storage for music files. I use MinimServer for DLNA/uPnP streaming and its awesome organization, metadata handling and presentation capabilities.
  
 The critical step: I use MinimStreamer for transcoding all audio files into 24-bit WAV. I started doing this because the Denon presented hissing sounds with some FLAC files, so I tried transcoding on-the-fly to WAV to resolve that issue; I was then surprised to hear an audible improvement (there's an interesting discussion on the MinimServer forum on this topic). I attribute the SQ improvement to the fact that WAV/24 is the least burdensome data type for the Denon player to handle; all it has to do is strip off the WAV header and feed the PCM data to the DAC.


----------



## TonyNewman

preproman said:


> I guess you had a difference experience than this guy?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/741674/antipodes-dx-music-server


 
  
 Dropping this and leaving it be.


----------



## magiccabbage

for anyone interested...............
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754216/woo-audio-wa2-tubes


----------



## Khragon

Which DAC are you planning to buy? I'm eyeing either used Hugo or oppo ha1, leaning toward the Hugo.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> Which DAC are you planning to buy? I'm eyeing either used Hugo or oppo ha1, leaning toward the Hugo.


 
  
 I hated the Hugo, loved the Oppo, and eventually settled on the exaSounds, which are divine.


----------



## bpcans

khragon said:


> Which DAC are you planning to buy? I'm eyeing either used Hugo or oppo ha1, leaning toward the Hugo.


Khragon, have you auditioned either the Hugo or the Oppo?


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> My experience with the Antipodes DX was also an unhappy one. In brief:
> 1) Playback would freeze when using .m4a files, requiring reboot. This would happen every 2 to 4 tracks, making the Antipodes unusable with .m4a files.
> 2) *Regular drop outs with the Vega DAC, even when using the less demanding clock settings (sacrificing SQ). *This issue went back to the designer/manufacturer (NZ based) and he told me that this was the *result of the design decision to prevent lags in playback.* The frustration is that the user has no control over this decision - there is no config option for me to adjust the data buffer on the Antipodes server - it is hardcoded in the firmware.
> 
> All this made the Antipodes unusable for me. It might have paired better with another DAC, but it should have been able to perform with the Auralic Vega - and I'm not replacing my beloved DAC to suit the oddities of a music server. I dumped the Antipodes and went back to using my PC as my digital source and couldn't be happier.


 
  
 Tony, was that experience with Redbook audio or were you driving high-res files through the Antipodes?  Just curious...


----------



## Khragon

bpcans said:


> Khragon, have you auditioned either the Hugo or the Oppo?




No unfortunately, I'm leaning toward Hugo on basis of what I'm reading about it and the portability. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Tony, was that experience with Redbook audio or were you driving high-res files through the Antipodes?  Just curious...


 
  
 Deleted.


----------



## Khragon

Forgot to mention, Schiit yaggy is on my radar too, probably will wait to get that. Schiit modi 2 uber + wyrd I'm using will do for now


----------



## Porteroso

The yaggy does look like a giant killer. I want one too.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> No idea what Redbook audio is.
> 
> I was using FLAC (successfully) and .m4a (epic fail). All files were loaded directly on the Antipodes (using it as a server, not a streamer). Antipodes has its own software pre-loaded.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks... Redbook refers to the CD standard: 44.1 kHz sample rate / 16-bit. Unbelievable that a product in that category would experience drop-outs (as you described above) with lossless rips of CD audio.


----------



## kokushu

You guys not interested in the Schitt Yggdrassil at all?


----------



## preproman

tonynewman said:


> *No idea what Redbook audio is.*
> 
> I was using FLAC (successfully) and .m4a (epic fail). All files were loaded directly on the Antipodes (using it as a server, not a streamer). Antipodes has its own software pre-loaded.
> 
> ...


 
  


krutsch said:


> Thanks... *Redbook refers to the CD standard: 44.1 kHz sample rate / 16-bit.* Unbelievable that a product in that category would experience drop-outs (as you described above) with lossless rips of CD audio.


 
  
  
 Redbook =  ^^^ This^^^ 
  
 Also Redbook can be FLAC, WAV, MP3, M4A, well - any format.  Just not High Res..  I use Redbook AIFF files..


----------



## isquirrel

preproman said:


> I guess you had a difference experience than this guy?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/741674/antipodes-dx-music-server


 

 Sure have, I understand they have significantly improved their build quality. The improved sonics were immediacy noticeable however they have taken 5 days to reach their full potential. I have mass loaded the top chassis as it is resonant and added an isolation base. Doesn't look pretty but its effective. I have also modded the Squeezebox server to run on minimal services was delivered with over 50 plugins running. Now has just 11.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> I think I already sent you via PM Steve's contact info ... I believe he has additional WE 422a tubes.
> 
> Why don't you reach out to him and see if the price is right?


 

 Thanks for the contact Ken, already have reached out.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> My experience with the Antipodes DX was also an unhappy one. In brief:
> 1) Playback would freeze when using .m4a files, requiring reboot. This would happen every 2 to 4 tracks, making the Antipodes unusable with .m4a files.
> 2) Regular drop outs with the Vega DAC, even when using the less demanding clock settings (sacrificing SQ). This issue went back to the designer/manufacturer (NZ based) and he told me that this was the result of the design decision to prevent lags in playback. The frustration is that the user has no control over this decision - there is no config option for me to adjust the data buffer on the Antipodes server - it is hardcoded in the firmware.
> 
> All this made the Antipodes unusable for me. It might have paired better with another DAC, but it should have been able to perform with the Auralic Vega - and I'm not replacing my beloved DAC to suit the oddities of a music server. I dumped the Antipodes and went back to using my PC as my digital source and couldn't be happier.


 

 That's odd, I have copied all my music files to the DX's SSD, (not using streaming) and have a lot of .m4a files, they all play okay as well as DSD high res etc. 
  
 Matt has a DS and a Vega DAC, I don't think he's had any issues either. Hopefully he will chime in with his experiences.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Which DAC are you planning to buy? I'm eyeing either used Hugo or oppo ha1, leaning toward the Hugo.


 

 I would be careful of the HA-1. I find it a little sterile. I certainly don't use it as a DAC / amp.
  
 By the time it reaches the tubes everything is good. I'm not alone on this. TonyNewman commented on it's brightness as well.
  
 So make sure you can have a listen first.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> I would be careful of the HA-1. I find it a little sterile. I certainly don't use it as a DAC / amp.
> 
> By the time it reaches the tubes everything is good. I'm not alone on this. TonyNewman commented on it's brightness as well.
> 
> So make sure you can have a listen first.


 

 I have also found the Hugo to sound lean, can sound a tad bright and fatiguing after a while.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> That's odd, I have copied all my music files to the DX's SSD, (not using streaming) and have a lot of .m4a files, they all play okay as well as DSD high res etc.
> 
> Matt has a DS and a Vega DAC, I don't think he's had any issues either. Hopefully he will chime in with his experiences.


 
  
 Deleted.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I have also found the Hugo to sound lean, can sound a tad bright and fatiguing after a while.


 
  


badas said:


> I would be careful of the HA-1. I find it a little sterile. I certainly don't use it as a DAC / amp.
> 
> By the time it reaches the tubes everything is good. I'm not alone on this. TonyNewman commented on it's brightness as well.
> 
> So make sure you can have a listen first.


 
  
 The Oppo DAC/Amp is not my thing - I found it a little bright and dry. Much prefer my Vega DAC and WA5/Taurus amps.
  
 Very different price tags, of course, but there should be warmer sounding options in the Oppo price range.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> I have also found the Hugo to sound lean, can sound a tad bright and fatiguing after a while.


 

 It seems to be a modern phenomenon. Exactly what you quoted. Fatiguing. Obviously depends on type of music being listen to.
  
 I really liked the Arcam irDac. That had a nice warm musical sound. I should have never sold it. I think I will hunt down another.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> The Oppo DAC/Amp is not my thing - I found it a little bright and dry. Much prefer my Vega DAC and WA5/Taurus amps.
> 
> Very different price tags, of course, but there *should be warmer sounding options in the Oppo price range*.


 
  
  


badas said:


> It seems to be a modern phenomenon. Exactly what you quoted. Fatiguing. Obviously depends on type of music being listen to.
> 
> I *really liked the Arcam irDac. That had a nice warm musical sound.* I should have never sold it. I think I will hunt down another.


 
  
 My previous daily-driver DAC was an Arcam rDac coupled with a linear PS - not the same, I know, as the irDac - but I really like the Arcam house sound.
  
 But, if you want something a little warmer sounding in Oppo price category, consider the Rega (their new model addresses previous short-comings in the USB and SPDIF receivers, although not an issue for me).
  
 Love mine ... pairs well with my amp.


----------



## Antipodes

Just to clear up the misinformation on the Antipodes servers being posted here by Tony Newman.  Tony's desire to damage our reputation by repeatedly posting negative comments about us on a variety of forums is just one of the perils of being in business we have to accept, but equally we have a right of reply.  Tony Newman never had a DX, he had a DXe.  The m4a problem he experienced was the only time any customer has ever had such a problem and a simple update to the software made it go away - we can only assume there was a minor software bug.  The Antipodes servers play m4a and just about everything out there without a problem.  
  
 The Antipodes servers are sold with Auralic Vega regularly by Audio Reference in Auckland and by Addicted to Audio in Melbourne and the two work perfectly together except for an odd situation that develops with the VEGA when in exact mode, when the VEGA changes sample rate from a multiple of 44.1 to a multiple of 48.  In that situation the VEGA will not change the internal clock it uses till the next track or unless you restart the track, and so with the wrong internal clock being used in exact mode, there are ticks and pops.  Other DACs handle such changes more or less gracefully.  Most DACs these days are set to mute on a change, restart the track and fade in - check it out with your DAC - just play a 44.1 track followed by a 96 track and see what your DAC does.  Unfortunately the VEGA strikes a problem with this when in exact mode.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> My previous daily-driver DAC was an Arcam rDac coupled with a linear PS - not the same, I know, as the irDac - but I really like the Arcam house sound.
> 
> But, if you want something a little warmer sounding in Oppo price category, consider the Rega (their new model addresses previous short-comings in the USB and SPDIF receivers, although not an issue for me).
> 
> Love mine ... pairs well with my amp.


 
  
 Hhhhhhmmm, That sounds good. I will check it out. Thanks.


----------



## Badas

antipodes said:


> Just to clear up the misinformation on the Antipodes servers being posted here by Tony Newman.  Tony's desire to damage our reputation by repeatedly posting negative comments about us on a variety of forums is just one of the perils of being in business we have to accept, but equally we have a right of reply.  Tony Newman never had a DX, he had a DXe.  The m4a problem he experienced was the only time any customer has ever had such a problem and a simple update to the software made it go away - we can only assume there was a minor software bug.  The Antipodes servers play m4a and just about everything out there without a problem.
> 
> The Antipodes servers are sold with Auralic Vega regularly by Audio Reference in Auckland and by Addicted to Audio in Melbourne and the two work perfectly together except for an odd situation that develops with the VEGA when in exact mode, when the VEGA changes sample rate from a multiple of 44.1 to a multiple of 48.  In that situation the VEGA will not change the internal clock it uses till the next track or unless you restart the track, and so with the wrong internal clock being used in exact mode, there are ticks and pops.  Other DACs handle such changes more or less gracefully.  Most DACs these days are set to mute on a change, restart the track and fade in - check it out with your DAC - just play a 44.1 track followed by a 96 track and see what your DAC does.  Unfortunately the VEGA strikes a problem with this when in exact mode.


 
  
 Tony got frustrated with it. I know how that feels. You get to a point where you wonder why you parted with hard earned $$.
  
 He also hasn't tried to damage the reputation. He was asked a few months back and he answered. There was discussion here today and he gave his experience. Nothing wrong with that.
  
 The fact that it is sitting there not being used is not a good look.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> It seems to be a modern phenomenon. Exactly what you quoted. Fatiguing. Obviously depends on type of music being listen to.
> 
> I really liked the Arcam irDac. That had a nice warm musical sound. I should have never sold it. I think I will hunt down another.


 

 +1 there used to be a time not so long ago where we would be facing the firing squad for daring to voice that opinion on the Hugo. Thankfully people have moved on.
  
 For me the best thing in audio that happened to me was discovering Woo amps and the joys of the journey of tubes.
  
 Must thank all the people in this forum, great community.


----------



## TonyNewman

Deleted.


----------



## Krutsch

antipodes said:


> Just to clear up the misinformation on the Antipodes servers being posted here by Tony Newman.  Tony's desire to damage our reputation by repeatedly posting negative comments about us on a variety of forums is just one of the perils of being in business we have to accept, but equally we have a right of reply.  Tony Newman never had a DX, he had a DXe.  *The m4a problem he experienced was the only time any customer has ever had such a problem* and a simple update to the software made it go away - we can only assume there was a minor software bug.  The Antipodes servers play m4a and just about everything out there without a problem.
> 
> The Antipodes servers are sold with Auralic Vega regularly by Audio Reference in Auckland and by Addicted to Audio in Melbourne and the two work perfectly together except for an odd situation that develops with the VEGA when in exact mode, when the VEGA changes sample rate from a multiple of 44.1 to a multiple of 48.  In that situation the VEGA will not change the internal clock it uses till the next track or unless you restart the track, and so with the wrong internal clock being used in exact mode, there are ticks and pops.  Other DACs handle such changes more or less gracefully.  Most DACs these days are set to mute on a change, restart the track and fade in - check it out with your DAC - just play a 44.1 track followed by a 96 track and see what your DAC does.  Unfortunately the VEGA strikes a problem with this when in exact mode.


 
  
 Well, I doubt that is really true (bold portion), but it sort of doesn't matter. I've spent the bulk of my career periodically interacting with customers that have had a bad product experience with the company for which I work; attacking these soon-to-be / ex-customers does little to help with potential future customers. Leaves me wondering about your company's culture. Seriously.
  
 Your second paragraph is a good one; if you could've started with something like: "... we are sorry Tony had a bad experience and we believe that our customers have a right to a correctly functioning product. If Tony wishes to contact us directly, I will do what I can to make things right."
  
 Just trying to help...


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> +1 there used to be a time not so long ago where we would be facing the firing squad for daring to voice that opinion on the Hugo. Thankfully people have moved on.
> 
> *For me the best thing in audio that happened to me was discovering Woo amps and the joys of the journey of tubes.*
> 
> Must thank all the people in this forum, *great community.*


 
  
 +1 ... best post I've read, today.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Well, I doubt that is really true (bold portion), but it sort of doesn't matter. I've spent the bulk of my career periodically interacting with customers that have had a bad product experience with the company for which I work; attacking these soon-to-be / ex-customers does little to help with potential future customers. Leaves me wondering about your company's culture. Seriously.
> 
> Your second paragraph is a good one; if you could've started with something like: "... we are sorry Tony had a bad experience and we believe that our customers have a right to a correctly functioning product. If Tony wishes to contact us directly, I will do what I can to make things right."
> 
> Just trying to help...


 
  
 I've moved on and probably shouldn't have gone into the details of my bad experience - time to let it go and all that.
  
 So I'm happy to leave it alone and drop it.


----------



## Antipodes

You are quite right.  We are very sorry Tony had the problem with the m4a files.  We had only cordial exchanges with Tony about this and in explaining to him what was happening inside his VEGA.  And I hasten to add Auralic may well have fixed this issue now or even some time ago.  We have had only a small number of customers report on it.  And Tony is right - he did have a bad experience, for which we apologise.  Our concern is that though we quickly fixed the m4a issue, and explained what was happening inside the VEGA, the information being broadcast here and on other sites is that our servers do not play m4a and have a problem playing with the VEGA.  I truly do know of no other instance where an m4a file was unplayable on our servers - they have always been playable, so this was an aberration.  We install from up to date repositories every time we install and it is possible that there was a bug in the player software for just a few hours on the repositories.


----------



## TonyNewman

antipodes said:


> You are quite right.  We are very sorry Tony had the problem with the m4a files.  We had only cordial exchanges with Tony about this and in explaining to him what was happening inside his VEGA.  And I hasten to add Auralic may well have fixed this issue now or even some time ago.  We have had only a small number of customers report on it.  And Tony is right - he did have a bad experience, for which we apologise.  Our concern is that though we quickly fixed the m4a issue, and explained what was happening inside the VEGA, the information being broadcast here and on other sites is that our servers do not play m4a and have a problem playing with the VEGA.  I truly do know of no other instance where an m4a file was unplayable on our servers - they have always been playable, so this was an aberration.  We install from up to date repositories every time we install and it is possible that there was a bug in the player software for just a few hours on the repositories.


 
  
 Point/s taken. I am happy to drop it and leave it alone.


----------



## Krutsch

antipodes said:


> We install from *up to date repositories every time we install *and it is *possible that there was a bug in the player software for just a few hours* on the repositories.


 
  
 I hope your company's software verification and life-cycle process is not accurately reflected in that statement. Sorry... I'll stop it now; I was literally slack-jawed when I read that post.


----------



## Antipodes

The software is fully tested before it is put up.  It is a very rare thing for something to slip through.


----------



## Antipodes

tonynewman said:


> Point/s taken. I am happy to drop it and leave it alone.


 
 Hi Tony.  I apologise for being blunt.  Regards


----------



## TonyNewman

antipodes said:


> Hi Tony.  I apologise for being blunt.  Regards


 
  
 And I apologise for not letting it go earlier. I should have. I will leave it alone going forward.


----------



## Fririce0003

Concerning the antipodes and vega pairing I can confirm it seems like a fault on the Vega's part. I have the first version of the DS, it works fine on coarse wth the vega, but when switching to exact there are some initial drop outs. The easiest fix I've found for this is resetting the clock by switching inputs to something that isn't plugged in, waiting a second, then switching back to the USB input. 
 After doing so the clock dropouts are gone. Wasn't a big deal for me given the sonic upgrade and how easy the fix was, another way was to play a track with a different sample rate then switch back to what I was initially playing. Though all my files are in uncompressed flac, either ripped from CD or converted via dbpower amp for hi res files.


----------



## isquirrel

now that's over and everyone's friends again. Tony you will be pleased to hear the Elrog's didn't need silly amounts of burn in to sound their best. Got them to 160 hours and have pulled them and rolled the Takatsukis 300B's in.  They have 70 hours on them.
  
 It is tough call right now and will wait until they both have same hours on them, seems to me they both have their strengths. I am mindful that the T 274B's changed and improved dramatically once they got beyond 100 hours or so. 
  
 Lost another Tung Sol 6SN7 yesterday, became very microphonic.
  
 I wish there was a current production 6SN7 that was as good. How many hours do you have on your Psvane CV181's now?
  
 Has that harshness gone yet?


----------



## Rossliew

@Antipodes , do you have any authorised dealers here in Malaysia? If not, perhaps Singapore? TIA


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> now that's over and everyone's friends again. Tony you will be pleased to hear the Elrog's didn't need silly amounts of burn in to sound their best. Got them to 160 hours and have pulled them and rolled the Takatsukis 300B's in.  They have 70 hours on them.
> 
> It is tough call right now and will wait until they both have same hours on them, seems to me they both have their strengths. I am mindful that the T 274B's changed and improved dramatically once they got beyond 100 hours or so.
> 
> ...


 
 Minor ripples in the HeaFi pond. Before I posted I had that nagging voice in the back of my head telling me "*It's over - let it go*" - should have listened to it. It isn't healthy to hang onto stuff for too long. Regret going there at all.
  
 Back to HeadFi...
  
 I think I have tried just about every new production 6SN7 equivalent that is currently available. None of them measure up to even the NOS RCA 6SN7 in terms of sonics. This is a sad situation. You can get very decent new production rectifiers and power tubes, but not 6SN7s.
  
 To answer the question - I have 2 pairs of Psvane T2 CV-181s with well over 300 hours on them. They remain very dry and need careful pairing to avoid harshness. They have great balance, extension and detail, but are as dry as the Simpson Desert in February. Once my buddy Badas put me onto RCA NOS I pulled the Psvanes and haven't put them back in at all - not sure I ever will.
  
 To give an example - in the WA5 they work OK with the PSvane WE274B replica rectifiers (a dark tube) and the SERPs (also dark), but I would much rather use the Brimars with RCA drivers with the SERPs - much better result.
  
 I have tried very hard to love the new production 6SN7s, but none of them have floated my boat.
  
 If anyone has found one they love I would like to know about it.
  
 These are the ones I have tried:
 EH gold pin
 Shug Black Treasure
 PSvane T2
 Sophia Electric / TJ
 Rebadged Sovtek (I think under Tung Sol brand).
  
 None of these beat the NOS RCA - which I can get on Ebay for around 10 bucks per tube (clear glass - tested - not NOS).
  
 Hoping someone like Elrog will make a 6SN7 - that would be a heck of a driver tube.


----------



## Antipodes

rossliew said:


> @Antipodes , do you have any authorised dealers here in Malaysia? If not, perhaps Singapore? TIA


 
 Hi Rossliew, thanks for your interest, Passion Audio in Singapore - www.antipodesaudio.com/antipodes_audio_dealers.html has an email link to Daniel.


----------



## Rossliew

antipodes said:


> Hi Rossliew, thanks for your interest, Passion Audio in Singapore - www.antipodesaudio.com/antipodes_audio_dealers.html has an email link to Daniel.


 
 Thanks so much for the link


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Minor ripples in the HeaFi pond. Before I posted I had that nagging voice in the back of my head telling me "*It's over - let it go*" - should have listened to it. It isn't healthy to hang onto stuff for too long. Regret going there at all.
> 
> Back to HeadFi...
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Tony,
  
 Yep I thought that would be the case, looks like we are stuck in NOS land for 6SN7's at least for now. I have pleaded but there is NO chance Elrog will even contemplate a 6SN7 tube in the foreseeable future. 
  
 I rate the early 1940 WW2 era grey glass RCA's very highly, I am trying to source some alternatives to the now very expensive Tung Sols. Last matched set cost me $700 US which is ridiculous money.
  
 Love your analogies 'dry as the Simpson desert'


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Look at the Ken Ran and National Union black glass from the 40s.....


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Minor ripples in the HeaFi pond. Before I posted I had that nagging voice in the back of my head telling me "*It's over - let it go*" - should have listened to it. It isn't healthy to hang onto stuff for too long. Regret going there at all.
> 
> Back to HeadFi...
> 
> ...


TonyN, I use Sophia Electric 6SN7's in my WA6. They have several hundred hours on them and I think that they're a wonderful pairing with the USAF 596 rectifier. Next stop Brimar.


----------



## preproman

*Calling all WA22 / HD800 owners.  *​  
  
 I'm looking to this amp as a replacement for the EC 445 I sold.  That combo didn't do it for me as it was to lean / thin.  I heard the WA22 / HD800 combo at the Audio Feast, but just for a few.  What tubes are the best fit or is the the best amp for the HD800 sat this price point.  Don't want to go up to the WA5 price.  Is this a lean / thin combo or will the WA22 add some soul to the music?


----------



## Khragon

Other can chime in, but WA22 (which I owned for about 6 months) and HD800 I think would pair well when you use GEC 6080 power tubes, and for drivers, either TS round plate (6f8g or 6sn7) or brimar, as for rectifier any decent one would do depending on your taste.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I use GEC 6AS7G, Mullard GZ34 Metal base and Tung Sol 6SN7GTs.


----------



## koiloco

preproman said:


> *Calling all WA22 / HD800 owners.  *​
> 
> I'm looking to this amp as a replacement for the EC 445 I sold.  That combo didn't do it for me as it was to lean / thin.  I heard the WA22 / HD800 combo at the Audio Feast, but just for a few.  What tubes are the best fit or is the the best amp for the HD800 sat this price point.  Don't want to go up to the WA5 price.  Is this a lean / thin combo or will the WA22 add some soul to the music?


 
 IMO and to my ears, wa22/hd800 is a very potent combo at this price point.  The WA22 does add quite a bit of soul.  I use kenrad vt231 and ts 5998, rectifier is either sophia princess or mullard metal base.  I did listen to WA5/hd800 and couldn't justify to go that route.  Gluck.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> TonyN, I use Sophia Electric 6SN7's in my WA6. They have several hundred hours on them and I think that they're a wonderful pairing with the USAF 596 rectifier. Next stop Brimar.


 
  
 I found them a little dry and cloudy - but it is ages since I have used them - I will try again this weekend.
  
 One thing I have learned is that initial impressions can be misleading with tubes. No harm in giving them another go.
  
 I don't have a 596 (only in my dreams) - but I will pair it with the Brimar and the PSvane WE274B replica (for a darker rectifier) in my WA6 and see what happens.
  
 I hope my first impressions of the TJ/SE 6SN7 were wrong - it would be great to have a good sounding new production 6SN7.


----------



## joseph69

I'm going to switch back to the UE-596 tonight and listen for the next week.
 This is how I'm able to tell their differences best.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> I'm going to switch back to the UE-596 tonight and listen for the next week.
> This is how I'm able to tell their differences best.


 

 I'll give them a week also - must not rush to judgement on these.
  
 I would be *thrilled *to be wrong in my first impression of these tubes. I think the hobby needs a good sounding new production 6SN7 rather desperately. NOS are only going to get more expensive.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> I'll give them a week also - must not rush to judgement on these.
> 
> I would be *thrilled *to be wrong in my first impression of these tubes. I think the hobby needs a good sounding new production 6SN7 rather desperately. NOS are only going to get more expensive.


 
 I'm not sure if you misread my post, but I'm switching the Brimar for the UE-596 and keeping the NOS Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys" in. I don't own any "new production" 6SN7/5692 tubes...their all NOS from the 1960's.
  
 Your right, I don't see any UE-596 tubes for sale.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> I'm not sure if you misread my post, but I'm switching the Brimar for the UE-596 and keeping the NOS Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys" in. I don't own any "new production" 6SN7/5692 tubes...their all NOS from the 1960's.
> 
> Your right, I don't see any UE-596 tubes for sale.


 
  
 Apologies - my bad - got my threads crossed.
  
 No matter - it's a good excuse to try the SE6SN7s again and see what happens.


----------



## Rumbleripper

Hi Everyone:
  
 FYI I use to own a WA-22 and then upgraded to a WA5 which I was using for my LCD-3's. When I heard of the UE 596 I purchased 10 sets so that I would have them for the future as I knew they were out of production.  
 I have since updated to a BHSE (on the way, been on the list for over 1 year) and the Stax 009's which I found were an improvement over my WA5 and LCD3's so I sold the LCD3's and the WA5. So I still have tubes available if anyone is interested in them. Just PM and we can work something out.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## bfreedma

rumbleripper said:


> Hi Everyone:
> 
> FYI I use to own a WA-22 and then upgraded to a WA5 which I was using for my LCD-3's. When I heard of the UE 596 I purchased 10 sets so that I would have them for the future as I knew they were out of production.
> I have since updated to a BHSE (on the way, been on the list for over 1 year) and the Stax 009's which I found were an improvement over my WA5 and LCD3's so I sold the LCD3's and the WA5. So I still have tubes available if anyone is interested in them. Just PM and we can work something out.
> ...


 
  
 I predict a PM storm.  Lots of people who missed out on the 596 before it got rare seem to be looking.


----------



## Stereolab42

Rumble, keep a note of who you sell them to and rat them out to the board if you see anyone flipping them on eBay. Because that wouldn't be cool.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> Rumble, keep a note of who you sell them to and rat them out to the board if you see anyone flipping them on eBay. Because that wouldn't be cool.


 
 By all means I do not disagree with your post...but if someone bought something from the F/S Forum on H-F and flipped it on eBay what would this have to do with H-F?


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> No matter - it's a good excuse to try the SE6SN7s again and see what happens.


Buy all means TonyN give those S/E 6SN7 tubes another go. My satisfaction with the S/E's could definetly be because of their specific synergy with the other links in my playback chain and the music I listen to. Then again I don't soar in the rarified air of super high-end audiophilia that you do. JK! Of course I can see sixty years old coming around the bend and I've had my ears too close to the speakers for far to long.


----------



## Stereolab42

joseph69 said:


> By all means I do not disagree with your post...but if someone bought something from the F/S Forum on H-F and flipped it on eBay what would this have to do with H-F?


 
  
 I'm pretty sure that's a bannable offense to flip from the F/S Forum to eBay. Jude, of course, makes the rules.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> I'm pretty sure that's a bannable offense to flip from the F/S Forum to eBay. Jude, of course, makes the rules.


 
 Its definitely not a cool thing to do to the H-F community...I was under the impression that you couldn't sell something on the F/S Forum on H-F above its retail price...but I'm not sure either, thats why I was wondering what eBay had to do with your post, thanks.


----------



## koiloco

joseph69 said:


> Its definitely not a cool thing to do to the H-F community...I was under the impression that you couldn't sell something on the F/S Forum on H-F above its retail price...but I'm not sure either, thats why I was wondering what eBay had to do with your post, thanks.


 
 +1.


----------



## listen4joy

anyone can compare the WA22 and the Schiit Rangarok?


----------



## Stereolab42

listen4joy said:


> anyone can compare the WA22 and the Schiit Rangarok?


 
  
 One is a tube amp and the other is a solid-state amp. It's like asking "can anyone compare men and women" or "can anyone compare the color red to the color blue"...


----------



## punit

listen4joy said:


> anyone can compare the WA22 and the Schiit Rangarok?


 

 I see that you have HD 800, so a better or more relevant question will be "can anyone compare the WA22 and the Schiit Rangarok for driving the HD 800?" 
  
 The WA22 is quite good with HD 800 plus has the added advantage over SS of tweaking the sound with tube rolling. No idea about how the Rag is with HD 800.


----------



## Khragon

Be careful that the wa22 have a hidden cost of tubes, prepare to pay another $500 to replace the mediocre stock set


----------



## punit

preproman said:


> *Calling all WA22 / HD800 owners.  *​
> 
> I'm looking to this amp as a replacement for the EC 445 I sold.  That combo didn't do it for me as it was to lean / thin.  I heard the WA22 / HD800 combo at the Audio Feast, but just for a few.  What tubes are the best fit or is the the best amp for the HD800 sat this price point.  Don't want to go up to the WA5 price.  Is this a lean / thin combo or will the WA22 add some soul to the music?


 
  
 Below is a list of the top combinations IMO. This is a copy & paste from my tube rolling notes with HD 800 back when I had the WA22. It is not lean at all, adds lot of soul to the music. BTW I listen mainly to EDM & some rock. I categorise Tube combinations into 5 categories: Amazing, Very Nice, Nice, Average, Bad. Below is the list of combos in the "Amazing & Very Nice" categories.
  

RCA 5U4G + TS 5998 + CV 181 (*Very Nice*, Smooth & top end extension, Punchy & tight bass & wide SS)
RCA 5U4G + TS 5998 + NU 6F8G (*Very Nice*, Sweet n Clear sound, tight bass & wide SS)
Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6AS7G + CV 181 (*Amazing,* Good Clarity & extended highs, Wide SS, Good bass)
Cossor GZ37 + GEC 6080 + CV 181 (*Amazing,* Good Clarity & extended highs, Wide SS, Good bass)
Cossor GZ37 + TS 5998 + CV 181 (*Amazing,* Good Clarity & extended highs, *Massive* SS & bass)
GZ34 MB + GEC  6080 + Ken Rad  (*Very Nice*, good clarity & bass)
EML 5U4G + GEC 6AS7G + Sophia 6SN7 (*Very Nice*, Big SS, Smooth n Clear)
EML 5U4G + GEC 6AS7G + Brimar CV 1988 (*Very Nice*, Big SS, Nice Treble, Smooth n Sweet)
EML 5U4G + TS 5998 + CV 181 (*Very Nice*, Big SS, Good Bass & High end extension, Good Clarity)
EML 5U4G + GEC 6AS7G + CV 181 (*Very Nice*, Big SS, Good High end extension, Good Clarity)
EML 5U4G + WE 421A + TSBGRP (*Very Nice*, Big SS, Good High end extension, Good Clarity)
USAF 596 + GEC 6080 + TSBG 6F8G (*Very nice*, smooth , clear, good bass)
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + NU 6F8G (*Very nice*, smooth , clear, good bass)
USAF 596 + TS 5998 + CV 181 (*Amazing*, smooth , clear, good bass & SS)
USAF 596 + WE421A + RCA Red 5692 (*Very Nice*, Clear n smooth, good bass, good SS *)*
USAF 596 + Chatham 6080 GP + TSBG 6F8G (*Very Nice*,  *good bass*, good SS, Smooth)
USAF 596 + Chatham 6080 GP + RCA Red 5692 (*Very* *Nice, *Good Bass, Smooth, *Amazing Tone* )
USAF 596 + Chatham 6080 GP + KRBG VT 231 6SN7GT  (*Very Nice, *Good Bass , Smooth yet extnd treble)
USAF 596 + Bendix 6080 GP + KRBG VT 231 6SN7GT  (*V.Very* *Nice, *Punchy Bass , wide SS, Smooth yet extnd treble)
USAF 596 + Bendix 6080 GP + Sylv 6F8G  (*V.Nice, *Good  SS  n Clarity, *Amazing Extended  Sweet Treble - WOW*)
USAF 596 + Bendix 6080 GP + TSBGRP  (*Amazing, *Good  everything, Dynamic)
USAF 596 + GEC 6AS7G + CV 181 (*Amazing,* Smooth,  Dynamic & Punchy)
WE422A + TS5998 + CV181 (*Amazing,* V.Good clarity, good Bass & Big SS, Top end extension)
WE422A + TS 5998 + KRBG VT 231 6SN7GT  (*Very Nice*, Good Bass & SS, *Smooth*)
WE422A + TS 5998 + TSBGRP 6SN7  (*Very nice,* V.Good clarity & SS, good bass & Top end extension)
WE422A + TS5998+TSBGRP 6F8G (*Very nice,* V.Good clarity & SS, good Top end extension)
WE422A + TS 5998 + SE 6SN7  (*Very Nice*, Good Bass & SS, *Smooth*)
WE422A + TS 5998 + NU 6F8G (*Very nice,* V.Good clarity & SS, nice bass & Top end extension)
WE422A + TS7236 + CV181  (*Very nice*, Balanced, Good bass, Clarity & smoothness)
WE422A + TS7236 + SE 6SN7  (*Very Nice*, Good Bass & SS, *Smooth*)
WE422A + TS7236 + TSBGRP 6SN7  (*Very nice,* V.Good clarity, good Bass & Big SS, Top end extension)
WE422A + TS7236 + TSBG 6F8G  (*Amazing,* V.Good clarity,  Big SS, Top end extension, even though bass is pretty neutral I will still rate this as amazing due to the overall musicality)
WE422A + TS7236 + Sylvn 6F8G (*Very nice,* V.Good clarity & SS & Top end extension)
WE422A + TS7236 + NU 6F8G (*Very nice,* V.Good clarity & SS, nice bass & Top end extension yet smooth)
WE422A + WE421A + SE 6SN7  (*Amazing,* V.Good clarity, good Bass & Big SS, Top end extension)
WE422A + WE421A + CV 181 (*screw*** *Amazing,* V.Good clarity, good Bass & Big SS, Top end extension)
U52 + TS 5998 + TSBG 6F8G (*Very nice, Smooth n Sweet*, Good SS + bass)
U52 + WE421A + Mullard CV 181 (*Very Nice*, Smooth yet Punchy, 3D soundstage)
U52 + GEC 6AS7G + Brimar CV1988 (*Very Nice, *Wide SS, Smooth n  Sweet Sound , great clarity*)*
U52 + GEC 6080 + Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT BG (*Very Nice, * Good Bass n SS, *Smooth n good treble, Good Clarity* )
U52 + Chatham 6080WB Solid GP+ Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT BG (*Very Nice, * Good Bass n SS, Smooth , good treble,  Good Clarity &* Amazing Tone, separation & imaging* )
U52 + Chatham 6080WB Solid GP+ Brimar CV1988 (*Very Nice, * Good Bass, Smooth , good treble,  Good Clarity &* Amazing  SS, tone, separation & imaging* )
Chatham 5R4WGB + GEC 6080 + Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT (*Very* *Nice,* Good Clarity & Bass, Dynamic)
CBS 5AW4 + GEC 6AS7G + RCA RED 5692 *(Very Very Nice, Dynamic & Great SS – 3D)*


----------



## preproman

So is this your best combo?  

WE422A + WE421A + CV 181 (*screw*** *Amazing,* V.Good clarity, good Bass & Big SS, Top end extension)


----------



## Khragon

Nice list, which CV181 did you use? I assume Mullard?
  


> WE422A + WE421A + CV 181 (*screw*** *Amazing,* V.Good clarity, good Bass & Big SS, Top end extension)


 
  
 Just an FYI.. that's a $1500 tubes combo there


----------



## punit

Yes. It was black base Mullard CV 181.


----------



## listen4joy

can anyone compare the WA22 and the Bottlehead Crack+Speedball for driving the HD 800?
  
 and punit i see that you have:
  
 Audio GD Master 9
 Bottlehead Mainline
 Cavalli Liquid Glass
  
 which one of them do you use to drive your hd800? or maybe other amp? can you tell why you replace WA22 with your current hd800 amp and what is the diffrences? thnx!


----------



## Krutsch

punit said:


> Below is a list of the top combinations IMO. This is a copy & pate from my tube rolling notes with HD 800 back when I had the WA22. It is not lean at all, adds lot of soul to the music. BTW I listen mainly to EDM & some rock. I categorise Tube combinations into 5 categories: Amazing, Very Nice, Nice, Average, Bad. Below is the list of combos in the "Amazing & Very Nice" categories.


 
  
 Wow... that took serious time to listen, compare and document.  Well played and thanks for sharing.


----------



## Badas

punit said:


> Below is a list of the top combinations IMO. This is a copy & pate from my tube rolling notes with HD 800 back when I had the WA22. It is not lean at all, adds lot of soul to the music. BTW I listen mainly to EDM & some rock. I categorise Tube combinations into 5 categories: Amazing, Very Nice, Nice, Average, Bad. Below is the list of combos in the "Amazing & Very Nice" categories.


 
  
 One heck of a list. Amazing effort and helpful when I own the WA22.
  
 I'm actually going to print a hard copy of this list.


----------



## abvolt

Thanks for the tube list *punit* the WA22 is my next upgrade..


----------



## punit

Here is the complete list (I used TH 900 & HD 800 with WA22):
  
 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mEngtlGWkhzZYNFBdhQ4ngSBz2huAJup_fh6Jrbgxos/edit?usp=sharing
  
 The formatting went a bit off when i copy pasted from Word to Google Docs. Also in case someone does not understand the Tube name abbreviations , the tube list with the full names are in my profile.


----------



## kokushu

The Western Electric 422a sound so good but I don't want to run out it tube life.  I don't know if I could ever get another WE 422a.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> To answer the question - I have 2 pairs of Psvane T2 CV-181s with well over 300 hours on them. They remain very dry and need careful pairing to avoid harshness. They have great balance, extension and detail, but are as dry as the Simpson Desert in February. Once my buddy Badas put me onto RCA NOS I pulled the Psvanes and haven't put them back in at all - not sure I ever will.


 
  
 My experience with the 181s is similar.  Someone pointed out the 181s needed 300 hours to settle.  I say: if a tube needs me to listen to 300 hours of harshness to get to something good, it's not a very good tube.  
  
 I'm back to the brown base Sylvanias.  They're not terribly remarkable in any area, but at least they get out of the way and let the 300B's show through.


----------



## Krutsch

kokushu said:


> The Western Electric 422a sound so good but I don't want to run out it tube life.  I don't know if I could ever get another WE 422a.


 

 I picked up a third WE 421a (NIB), because I can't imagine my amp without one and I want a pair for my future WA2 (when I get around to upgrading 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
  
 I was extremely lucky on the pricing for my matched pair... but new listings on eBay have gone completely insane.
  
 There is a new listing for a single 422a (used, tested) for $650.00; pairs of WE 300b are being listed as $6,500.00 and $15,000 US (there are multiple listings out of Hong Kong).


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Getting great tubes for the WA22 need not be mega bucks, £100 will get you great performance from a set of NOS.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> ... I'm back to the brown base Sylvanias.  They're not terribly remarkable in any area, but at least they get out of the way and let the 300B's show through.


 
  
 I much prefer the RCA 6SN7s over the Sylvanias. Clear or grey glass, these are nice sounding tubes that don't cost the earth.


----------



## Badas

nic rhodes said:


> Getting great tubes for the WA22 need not be mega bucks, £100 will get you great performance from a set of NOS.




Agreed. My tube set is about US$100. The result is amazing.




tonynewman said:


> I much prefer the RCA 6SN7s over the Sylvanias. Clear or grey glass, these are nice sounding tubes that don't cost the earth.




Sssshhh, don't tell anyone. They are great tubes and clearglass sounds just as great as more expensive greyglass.

I have just recieved the RCA VT 99. Fun times.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> I much prefer the RCA 6SN7s over the Sylvanias. Clear or grey glass, these are nice sounding tubes that don't cost the earth.


 

 I'll check out a pair.  Thanks!


----------



## listen4joy

can it be true?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/2670#post_9809867


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Agreed. My tube set is about US$100. The result is amazing.
> Sssshhh, don't tell anyone. They are great tubes and clearglass sounds just as great as more expensive greyglass.
> 
> I have just recieved the RCA VT 99. Fun times.


 

 OK, I'll bite... what do you have plugged in (before receiving the RCA VT-99s). Just curious...


----------



## teamrushpntball

listen4joy said:


> can it be true?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/2670#post_9809867




That's quite the strong statement to make. Wonder if it has any merit. Been debating a wa2 or crack for my hd700's for the last 2 weeks now.


----------



## punit

listen4joy said:


> can it be true?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/2670#post_9809867


 

 Sorry but no way IMO. I have owned both at same time.  The Btlhd Crack is the best value tube amp I have heard till date for the HD 800 & T1. But The WA22 was better in all respects compared to Btlhd Crack.  Well definitely not 3 times better (as compared to the price diff, not even 2 times better I would say. All this is very subjective but I would say Crack gets you 80% of the sound at 30% of the price) but better none the less. Don't know if he was using it balanced ? The Crack has more bass quantity but WA22 has better quality / texture. Also he was using the Sophia Prn rect, which is very tubey & pretty mediocre IMO & not to be used if you are looking for dynamic sound, I sold my S.P very quickly. But I guess therein lies the main challenge of WA22, you have to spend some time , effort & cash in getting good nos tubes to see what it is really capable of. Even the upgrade tubes on Woo site will not get you all the way there.


----------



## Krutsch

punit said:


> Sorry but no way IMO. I have owned both at same time.  The Btlhd Crack is the best value tube amp I have heard till date for the HD 800 & T1. But The WA22 was better in all respects compared to Btlhd Crack.  Well definitely not 3 times better (as compared to the price diff, not even 2 times better I would say. All this is very subjective but I would say Crack gets you 80% of the sound at 30% of the price) but better none the less. Don't know if he was using it balanced ? The Crack has more bass quantity but WA22 has better quality / texture. Also he was using the Sophia Prn rect, which is very tubey & pretty mediocre IMO & not to be used if you are looking for dynamic sound, I sold my S.P very quickly. But I guess therein lies the main challenge of WA22, you have to spend some time , effort & cash in getting good nos tubes to see what it is really capable of. Even the upgrade tubes on Woo site will not get you all the way there.


 

@punit  ... may I ask what other Woo amps you have owned? Selfishly speaking, I am looking to upgrade from the WA3; want to stay with an OTL, so am looking at the WA2 or the WA22 and would be curious to hear your opinion (especially given your exposure to what looks like the complete / rich-matrix set of compatible tubes).
  
 Thanks, in advance.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> OK, I'll bite... what do you have plugged in (before receiving the RCA VT-99s). Just curious...




Rectifier: Brimar 5Z4GY purchased at 10 pounds. Say about US$18. I did buy 6 off them to get that price. I have 14 in total now.
Power tubes: Tung-Sol 6AS7G's. Purchased at US$51 for two matched sets. So US$26 for a set.
Driver tubes: RCA 6SN7's purchased at US$45.

Total for one set of tubes: US$89.00. Sound: Goregeous. At least 30% better than stock tubes.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Rectifier: Brimar 5Z4GY purchased at 10 pounds. Say about US$18. I did buy 6 off them to get that price. I have 14 in total now.
> Power tubes: Tung-Sol 6AS7G's. Purchased at US$51 for two matched sets. So US$26 for a set.
> Driver tubes: RCA 6SN7's purchased at US$45.
> 
> Total for one set of tubes: US$89.00. Sound: Goregeous. At least 30% better than stock tubes.


 

 That's pretty good... I did a quick search on eBay and while prices were a little higher, it's roughly in-line.
  
 I actually already have a set of Tung-Sol 6AS7G (as well as three of the WE 421a) that I bought for the WA3, so I would be covered for power tubes. The drivers and rectifiers you list seem to be inexpensive and plentiful, so that might be a good upgrade path for me (there's still the 2K for the WA22 itself, so there's that).
  
 Thanks for the info.


----------



## punit

krutsch said:


> @punit  ... may I ask what other Woo amps you have owned? Selfishly speaking, I am looking to upgrade from the WA3; want to stay with an OTL, so am looking at the WA2 or the WA22 and would be curious to hear your opinion (especially given your exposure to what looks like the complete / rich-matrix set of compatible tubes).
> 
> Thanks, in advance.


 

 I had the WA6 before the WA22. Haven't heard the Woo OTL's so cannot comment. But seeing that you have Grado's as well, the WA22 will be a more versatile amp. It performs  well with most of the low & high impd HP's that I tried except HE 6. How are the Grado's with WA3 ?


----------



## daverich4

preproman said:


> *Calling all WA22 / HD800 owners.  *​
> 
> I'm looking to this amp as a replacement for the EC 445 I sold.  That combo didn't do it for me as it was to lean / thin.  I heard the WA22 / HD800 combo at the Audio Feast, but just for a few.  What tubes are the best fit or is the the best amp for the HD800 sat this price point.  Don't want to go up to the WA5 price.  Is this a lean / thin combo or will the WA22 add some soul to the music?


 

 I've been using the WA22/HD800 combination for a little over two years now. For my personal tastes, most of the time I use GEC 6AS7G's, Sylvania 6SN7WGTA Brown Base & WE422a. That combination gives me some of the clearest, deepest base I've ever heard through headphones but.....   Lean / thin is the exact term I would to describe the overall sound. To me, there is just a lack of weight to the lower end. If I remember correctly, DubStep Girl came to the same conclusion and sold her WA22 after trying a variety of tubes. (Lucky me, I bought her GEC's when she did). Don't get me wrong, I've thoroughly enjoyed my rig over the last two years and would be happy to do so going forward. However, listening to my HD800's through different amps at the Charlotte regional meet last year made me aware that for my tastes, perhaps the WA22 wasn't the best choice to drive the HD800's. I didn't want to buy a new amp so in my case I solved it by getting a pair of Audeze LCD3 F's. YMMV.


----------



## joseph69

krutsch said:


> I am looking to upgrade from the WA3; want to stay with an OTL, so am looking at the WA2 or the WA22


 
 Heres a WA2 if your interested in the OTL.


----------



## Behemoth27

krutsch said:


> @punit  ... may I ask what other Woo amps you have owned? Selfishly speaking, I am looking to upgrade from the WA3; want to stay with an OTL, so am looking at the WA2 or the WA22 and would be curious to hear your opinion (especially given your exposure to what looks like the complete / rich-matrix set of compatible tubes).
> 
> Thanks, in advance.


 
 Two things to consider are how important are balanced inputs to you. Also, the WA2 can function as a preamp which is very convenient if you plan to build a speaker system around it.


----------



## koiloco

listen4joy said:


> can it be true?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/2670#post_9809867


 
 Anyone who thinks that's the case, IMO, is obviously on crack.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Subjectively personal preference then sure.  I have listened to both amps driving HD800 enough to say that it's totally untrue.


----------



## Krutsch

punit said:


> I had the WA6 before the WA22. Haven't heard the Woo OTL's so cannot comment. But seeing that you have Grado's as well, the WA22 will be a more versatile amp. It performs  well with most of the low & high impd HP's that I tried except HE 6. *How are the Grado's with WA3 *?


 
  
 Frankly, not great. When I switch to these, I tend to plug into my NAD D 1050 which seems to be an ideal DAC/amp for Grado cans (roughly 4 ohm output impedance and enough power to knock out my fillings). So, I've settled into an amp for each set of cans.
  
 To be honest, I am already leaning towards to the WA2, since I want to stay OTL (I'm pretty committed to the HD-650s) and leverage my investment in tubes.
  
 Not sure, however, if I should be moving towards a balanced rig...


----------



## Krutsch

joseph69 said:


> Heres a WA2 if your interested in the OTL.


 
  
 I've been looking at that listing... thanks for the tip


----------



## Krutsch

behemoth27 said:


> Two things to consider are how important are balanced inputs to you. Also, the WA2 can function as a preamp which is very convenient if you plan to build a speaker system around it.


 
  
 I have a DAC with balanced analog outs, which would be nice, but my favorite DAC and spinner are RCA out. Too many choices!


----------



## Badas

^
  
 I debated the WA2 verses the WA22 as well. Was leaning towards the WA2 to the last minute. Ultimately it was the power increase on the WA22 that made me go for it. Something to think about.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ^
> 
> I debated the WA2 verses the WA22 as well. Was leaning towards the WA2 to the last minute. Ultimately it was the power increase on the WA22 that made me go for it. Something to think about.


 
  
 ^ yeah, you're right... especially if I ever want to move to a planar 'phone like HiFiMAN or Audeze.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> ^ yeah, you're right... especially if I ever want to move to a planar 'phone like HiFiMAN or Audeze.


 

 Exactamondo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listened to the WA2 (stock tubes) with my Audeze LCD3c and it was nice but power was pushed. It sounded strained. With my WA22 the volume sits at 1'O'Clock position / Low impedance and never feels underpowered.
 Transformers and Woo casing never gets hot. At the very most after hours of use it gets luke warm.
  
 Add to the fact I now only use balanced connection it make the WA22 a winner.


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> ^ yeah, you're right... especially if I ever want to move to a planar 'phone like HiFiMAN or Audeze.


OMG Krutsch, you've got a serious case of upgrade-eyetis. I'm happy for ya' and at the same time extremely jealous. The WA22 in black looks way cool. Just sayin'.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Exactamondo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks... That's a decision point for me: do I want to go balanced, replacing cans/cables and source components?
  


bpcans said:


> OMG Krutsch, you've got a serious case of upgrade-eyetis. I'm happy for ya' and at the same time extremely jealous. The WA22 in black looks way cool. Just sayin'.


 
 Well, I am weighing options... not sure if spending like a drunk sailor is something to envy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All of the tube rolling I've been playing around with, plus a recent review of the WA2 + HD-650, really gave me the itch to upgrade. But I think I need to figure out where my end-game is, before I buy more stuff, and build towards that outcome.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

unusual comparison between crack and 22, i have both still and see things differently, along with WA2 and WA6se.


----------



## teamrushpntball

nic rhodes said:


> unusual comparison between crack and 22, i have both still and see things differently, along with WA2 and WA6se.




What cans are you using as a reference for your opinion? And does your prefered amp of the 4 change based on headphone?


----------



## reeltime

Hmmm.  GZ34s arrived today.  1957 metal base.  My initial impression: I like the Mighty 596 more with the Elrogs.
  
 More listening required... but the mids have more presence under the GZ34, tons of detail, probably too much.  This wasn't my experience when I had the WA6.  The 596 is more musical, and laid back with thicker bass.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

teamrushpntball said:


> What cans are you using as a reference for your opinion? And does your prefered amp of the 4 change based on headphone?




Wide variety of different can from othos, 600 ohm and the likes of 800s, I like each amp for different reasons. Almost complete list of kit in my profile. I don't have a favourite amp per say but do have favourite headphones with each amp.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> I much prefer the RCA 6SN7s over the Sylvanias. Clear or grey glass, these are nice sounding tubes that don't cost the earth.


 

 Wow.  Big difference with the RCA over the Sylvania.  Tony you were dead on correct.  Thanks!  The metal base GZ34 is a different animal with these drivers.  Much improved.  I have a lot of listening to do.  That's a good thing.
  
 My first listening impressions with the Elrog / RCA 6SN7 / GZ34 is MORE bass than the 596.  Soundstage is equally wide.  I think the 596 is brighter.  Not sure if that's a good thing.  With the RCA / 596 the detail borders on harsh now, or is it that the GZ34 is veiled?  Can't tell yet.  It's a fun journey.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> Wow.  Big difference with the RCA over the Sylvania.  Tony you were dead on correct.  Thanks!  The metal base GZ34 is a different animal with these drivers.  Much improved.  I have a lot of listening to do.  That's a good thing.
> 
> My first listening impressions with the Elrog / RCA 6SN7 / GZ34 is MORE bass than the 596.  Soundstage is equally wide.  I think the 596 is brighter.  Not sure if that's a good thing.  With the RCA / 596 the detail borders on harsh now, or is it that the GZ34 is veiled?  Can't tell yet.  It's a fun journey.


 
  
 Glad the RCAs work for you. I like them very much for the warm, rich tone they have. They do sacrifice a little detail and the bass can get a little muddy, but for the price they are a great value tube.
  
 I find the Sylvanias (and the many re-branded 7N7s made by Sylvania) dry and that can tend to unpleasant harshness.
  
 Badas put me onto these tubes and I have stocked up on them. They are my everyday 'go to' tube. They pair nicely with the Brimar rectifier for a very cost effective setup. Now, if only 300Bs were as easy to find at a similar price / performance point I would be in tube nirvana


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> *Badas put me onto these tubes and I have stocked up on them.* They are my everyday 'go to' tube.


 
  
 That's how I feel about the Western Electric 421a ... I have three of them now (two I rotate through and one NIB I leave alone). When you find the right tube combo-platter, you start to worry about having to go without


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> Glad the RCAs work for you. I like them very much for the warm, rich tone they have. They do sacrifice a little detail and the bass can get a little muddy, but for the price they are a great value tube.
> 
> I find the Sylvanias (and the many re-branded 7N7s made by Sylvania) dry and that can tend to unpleasant harshness.
> 
> Badas put me onto these tubes and I have stocked up on them. They are my everyday 'go to' tube. They pair nicely with the Brimar rectifier for a very cost effective setup. Now, if only 300Bs were as easy to find at a similar price / performance point I would be in tube nirvana


 
  
 The Sylvania was a decent match for the 596, but there wasn't deep bass going on.  The RCAs have a kick, that's for sure.  The right rectifier should tame them nicely.  At the moment it's the metal GZ34 for me (or is it the 596?!  Can't decide tonight).  The PSVane 181 T-II never settled for me.  Talk about harsh!  They made the Sylvania sound sedate.  
  
 Agreed.  I'm about to sell my EML 300B Mesh.  The Elrogs are just too good.  Can't look back at this point.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> The Sylvania was a decent match for the 596, but there wasn't deep bass going on.  The RCAs have a kick, that's for sure.  The right rectifier should tame them nicely.  At the moment it's the metal GZ34 for me (or is it the 596?!  Can't decide tonight).  The PSVane 181 T-II never settled for me.  Talk about harsh!  They made the Sylvania sound sedate.
> 
> Agreed.  I'm about to sell my EML 300B Mesh.  The Elrogs are just too good.  Can't look back at this point.


 
  
 I found the Psvane T2s are much better when paired with the Psvane WE274B rectifier - that is a dark tube and tames the nasty parts of the T2s to a large degree, but I still would not call it 'good' - once I was put onto the RCAs I pulled the T2s very quickly and they haven't been back in any of my amps.
  
 If only the T2s had some warmth to them they would be a spectacularly good tube. They have excellent detail, balance and extension, but they are sooooooooo dry that with anything other than dark tubes they can turn harsh.
  
 At the risk of getting lynched for saying this on the Woo thread - I am having huge amounts of fun with my Simaudio 430HA teamed up with the Auralic Vega DAC. Detail and dynamics beat anything I have ever been able to coax out of my tube amps, and the sound is warm and musical. That special 'tube magic' isn't there, but I am wondering if that is a goal I want to continue to chase. Tube burn in, tube burn out, tube experiments, class A SET heat output that could BBQ an elephant - massive time and dollar sink - not sure I want to take the next leap to Elrog 300Bs + 845s.
  
 Solid state doesn't have the flexibility of tube rolling, but it sure is nice to hit an 'on' button and have great music about 2 seconds later.
  
 Anyone else having (or had) second thoughts about the tube vs solid state choice? (definitely not trying to start any flaming here - want to know if any fellow Woo-heads have had some '*bugger this - I'm going solid state*' moments)


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Anyone else having (or had) second thoughts about the tube vs solid state choice? (definitely not trying to start any flaming here - want to know if any fellow Woo-heads have had some '*bugger this - I'm going solid state*' moments)


 
  
 Haha.. you're not alone.  I have SS vs tube moment too... the $$ I put into tubes it seem sometime might be better of going to a good SS amp. Looking at Schiit Raggy...


----------



## kokushu

I have the bmc puredac as a SS backup when I don't want to use the Woo Audio 5.  I also backup my backup with a vintage yamaha CA 1010.  Then I backup my backup my backup with a centrance hifi m8; and so on and so on.  A lot have to happen in order for me not being able to drive most of my headphones.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Anyone else having (or had) second thoughts about the tube vs solid state choice? (definitely not trying to start any flaming here - want to know if any fellow Woo-heads have had some '*bugger this - I'm going solid state*' moments)


 
  
 No... not me. And, I am on the low end of the scale. I was just thinking about this topic, when your post came across.
  
 I've been listening to my rig for the past 4 hours and I can't believe how good this sounds; I've never heard a solid state amp sound like what I am listening to, right now.
  
 That said, I am starting to wonder if tube warm-up is more like hours and not minutes; I am sympathetic to your comments about tube-hassle and all of that, but for me, it's all about the *complete lack* of listening fatigue. I could stay up all night listening to my rig (my family starts to freak out if I stay up too late).
  
 I am curious to hear about your new Moon system (I am looking at adding a MiND 180 streamer to my stack), but see if you can put in 6 hours of head-fi time without fatigue... that's the litmus test.
  
 Either way... if you are having fun, then you are winning at Head-Fi.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> I found the Psvane T2s are much better when paired with the Psvane WE274B rectifier - that is a dark tube and tames the nasty parts of the T2s to a large degree, but I still would not call it 'good' - once I was put onto the RCAs I pulled the T2s very quickly and they haven't been back in any of my amps.
> 
> If only the T2s had some warmth to them they would be a spectacularly good tube. They have excellent detail, balance and extension, but they are sooooooooo dry that with anything other than dark tubes they can turn harsh.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've lost patience with the T2s.  I'll be selling them soon, as well.  There's a harsh edge that just annoys the hell out of the HD800.  I can't get them to work for me and I'm tired of trying.  Finding a good pairing should never be this difficult.
  
 The Elrogs are worth the expense.  That's about all I can say.
  
 The amp I keep eyeing is the GSX MkII.  No amount of tube rolling in the WA5LE has been able to match the GSX with the HD800, in my opinion.  I was simply blown away at last year's audio show in Newport Beach.  But I'll never sell the Woo.  It's just too much of a statement, and I have no use for the two extra features on the WA5, so upgrading isn't a need.  I'll never buy the HifiMan, and the pre outs on the WA5 are unbalanced, so they won't work with my Genelecs.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Haha.. you're not alone.  I have SS vs tube moment too... the $$ I put into tubes it seem sometime might be better of going to a good SS amp. Looking at Schiit Raggy...


 
  
 Exactly my point. Equivalent dollars spent on SS gear buys you a *LOT *of SQ.
  
 I have replaced my 845 SET amp with an Accuphase P-4200 solid state power amp. These are roughly equivalent cost power amps (SET amp slightly higher if tube costs are included). I have been A/B testing using my Simaudio 430HA as preamp for both - and the gap in detail and dynamics is not small or subtle - it hits you like a shovel to the back of the skull. It isn't just some extra bass grip - which is what you might expect in a SS vs tube scenario - *everything *is better with the SS amp, with the single exception of the tube warmth on the mids - vocals in particular, that is lovely from the 845 SET.
  
 Same result comparing the WA5 with the Simaudio 430HA in driving headphones. Big jump in everything good with SS, but missing that mid-range / vocal tube magic.
  
 I have chosen my SS gear to be musical and on the warm side of neutral - so the sound isn't 'mechanical'  at all - it is warm and inviting and addictive in its own right - but tubes do give that 'fleshiness' and texture to the vocals that I have never heard from SS.
  
 Million dollar question:
_*Is that extra level of vocal loveliness enough to justify the drop in everything else in the SQ, and the expense and hassle of dealing with glass?*_
  
 That is what I am struggling with right now. Have Badas dropping by tomorrow to help me A/B the SS vs tube gear and provide a voice of sanity and reason. My heart loves the glass, but my head is telling me to dump the old tech and embrace transistors


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> I have the bmc puredac as a SS backup when I don't want to use the Woo Audio 5.  I also backup my backup with a vintage yamaha CA 1010.  Then I backup my backup my backup with a centrance hifi m8; and so on and so on.  A lot have to happen in order for me not being able to drive most of my headphones.


 
  
 And I thought I was obsessive - you have me beat


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> I've lost patience with the T2s.  I'll be selling them soon, as well.  There's a harsh edge that just annoys the hell out of the HD800.  I can't get them to work for me and I'm tired of trying.  Finding a good pairing should never be this difficult.
> 
> The Elrogs are worth the expense.  That's about all I can say.
> 
> The amp I keep eyeing is the GSX MkII.  No amount of tube rolling in the WA5LE has been able to match the GSX with the HD800, in my opinion.  I was simply blown away at last year's audio show in Newport Beach.  But I'll never sell the Woo.  It's just too much of a statement, and I have no use for the two extra features on the WA5, so upgrading isn't a need.  I'll never buy the HifiMan, and the pre outs on the WA5 are unbalanced, so they won't work with my Genelecs.


 
  
 Totally get that - the T2s are never going to play well with the HD800. With a darker headphone, like the LCD-X, it is not so bad. The RCAs are still the better option, no doubt.
  
 I have not heard the GS-X Mk2. I thought about it as my SS option and pre-amp, but plunked for the 430HA for a few reasons -
 1) I really like Simaudio gear, and their pedigree of preamps is outstanding. The 430HA shares much technology and components from the 740P - a very well respected preamp.
 2) The GS-X Mk2 struggles to power the HE6. The 430HA does it easily (I have been running my HE6 from the 430HA for the past 3 days for burn in - it drives it better than my WA5 via the K1K port).
 3) Availability - the GS-X Mk2 has a 6 month (or more) lead time in my part of the planet. I had my 430HA about 2 weeks after placing the order.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> Totally get that - the T2s are never going to play well with the HD800. With a darker headphone, like the LCD-X, it is not so bad. The RCAs are still the better option, no doubt.
> 
> I have not heard the GS-X Mk2. I thought about it as my SS option and pre-amp, but plunked for the 430HA for a few reasons -
> 1) I really like Simaudio gear, and their pedigree of preamps is outstanding. The 430HA shares much technology and components from the 740P - a very well respected preamp.
> ...


 
  
 I'm very fortunate that CanJam is coming to LA at the end of March.  I'm really looking forward to it.  I will make it a point to check out Simaudio.  
  
 I don't think I'm going to be in a position to buy, unfortunately.  I just spent a ton of money on some new camera gear this month.  Gotta put the profession ahead of passion.  
  
 I'm interested to see what the next headphone coming from Audeze and I hope to put my ears under the new HE-1000.  It looks cool.  It looks expensive.  I want the upgrade to my Wyred4Sound DAC 2.  Usually Wyred runs a good sale at theses shows.  
  
 The GSX is just a few week wait here.  It is on my list.  I want to make sure I was hearing what I was hearing last year.  It was really special.


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> No... not me. And, I am on the low end of the scale. I was just thinking about this topic, when your post came across.
> 
> I've been listening to my rig for the past 4 hours and I can't believe how good this sounds; I've never heard a solid state amp sound like what I am listening to, right now.
> 
> ...


Ahh, the things that start going thru ones head at nothing o'clock in the morning. Right now I'm enjoying my modest Woo amp, even though a GS-X MkII or the Mcintosh MHA-1000 would be awesome. Next upgrade hopefully will be a better DAC. Late night and early mornings seem to be the best listening times for me.


----------



## magiccabbage

bpcans said:


> Ahh, the things that start going thru ones head at nothing o'clock in the morning. Right now I'm enjoying my modest Woo amp, even though a GS-X MkII or the Mcintosh MHA-1000 would be awesome. Next upgrade hopefully will be a better DAC. Late night and early mornings seem to be the best listening times for me.


 
 +++1 I totally agree - late at night and in the mornings are the best times for tunes!


----------



## bpcans

magiccabbage said:


> +++1 I totally agree - late at night and in the mornings are the best times for tunes!


I find that my ears have to be rested and clear for critical listening. I like progressive jazz like this. Modern electric jazz recordings have so many subtle soundscape overlays that it's hard to catch everything even when I'm listening closely. Completely different from a straight ahead 4 man jazz set recorded in the 60's with one mic at the Blue Note or Village Vangaurd.


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> Wow.  Big difference with the RCA over the Sylvania.  Tony you were dead on correct.  Thanks!  The metal base GZ34 is a different animal with these drivers.  Much improved.  I have a lot of listening to do.  That's a good thing.
> 
> My first listening impressions with the Elrog / RCA 6SN7 / GZ34 is MORE bass than the 596.  Soundstage is equally wide.  I think the 596 is brighter.  Not sure if that's a good thing.  With the RCA / 596 the detail borders on harsh now, or is it that the GZ34 is veiled?  Can't tell yet.  It's a fun journey.


 

 The Elrogs and the Metal Base GZ34 take quite a few hours to perform their best, my GZ 34's really sounded their best with some serious hours, well over 200, the Elrog's have now got 200 hours and are a different animal now. Really opened up and clarity, bass has all improved.
  
 The good news is that the metal base GZ 34's will most likely outlast you, they are good for 100,000 hours apparently. Which date code do you have on yours?


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> I find that my ears have to be rested and clear for critical listening. I like progressive jazz like this. Modern electric jazz recordings have so many subtle soundscape overlays that it's hard to catch everything even when I'm listening closely. Completely different from a straight ahead 4 man jazz set recorded in the 60's with one mic at the Blue Note or Village Vangaurd.


 

 +1 on that, I have only been getting 4-5 hours sleep a night due to work commitment's. Brain/ear combo doesn't work properly under those conditions.


----------



## Fririce0003

I'm finally back in the Woo camp! Tube amps oh how I have missed you! Now just gotta burn in these beauties so I can roll in some Takatsuki's and TSRP's, already sounding good with, gasp, stock tubes!



 Got mine with a pre amp out and a xlr loop out so I can use it with my speakers as an alternative to the GS-X. 
 Crappy phone pics for now, I'll take some better pics in a couple weeks when all the gears in and everything's in it's final place. Hopefully there will be some nicer tubes in as well


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> No... not me. And, I am on the low end of the scale. I was just thinking about this topic, when your post came across.
> 
> I've been listening to my rig for the past 4 hours and I can't believe how good this sounds; I've never heard a solid state amp sound like what I am listening to, right now.
> 
> ...


 
 Tube warmup seems to come fully good in the 2nd hour, I switch mine on and notice it takes good hour for them to settle. Curious about the Moon too, lot to be said for now having to worry about tubes failing etc. Though for me I am a diehard tube fan, the Elrog's moved the goalposts a fair way for me I always found a good tube pre-amp into SSD power amps was the best way to go for speakers etc.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> I'm finally back in the Woo camp! Tube amps oh how I have missed you! Now just gotta burn in these beauties so I can roll in some Takatsuki's and TSRP's, already sounding good with, gasp, stock tubes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good on you Matt, you've waited a long time for those beauties. Now for the long burn in process. Does your output key allow XLR out?


----------



## Justin_Time

reeltime said:


> [...] No amount of tube rolling in the WA5LE has been able to match the GSX with the HD800, in my opinion.


 
 Have you tried the Woo with the Sylvania 6F8G or the Shuguang 50-Year Treasure CV-181 Z (preferably grade A+)?
  
 You may not get the silky smooth, feather-light treble of the GS-X--no other amp will give you that--but instead you will get the liquid, lush midrange that you will not get from the GS-X, a very favorable trade-off to my ears.  Plus you get a fuller bass, something that the HD800 sorely needs, without much sacrifice in the speed.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Good on you Matt, you've waited a long time for those beauties. Now for the long burn in process. Does your output key allow XLR out?




 The wait was well worth it, got a bit impatient after hearing them in your system though!
 Output key only works in single ended RCA since it's not a balanced amp. So I've just got a cardas RCA to XLR adaptor to plug into the Merak's. The XLR loop out also only outputs the XLR signal not RCA so it's a bit limited. 
 Pre amp function is very musical already though and still very accurate and detailed. Think the GSX will only be seeing use as a tube saver for non critical listening once the good tubes are in though.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Tube warmup seems to come fully good in the 2nd hour, I switch mine on and notice it takes good hour for them to settle.


This has also been my experience even with my humble WA6.


----------



## Fririce0003

You may also want to audition the Ragnarok if you get the chance, not sure how it pairs with the HD800 but best SS pairing I've gotten with the Abyss. Haven't heard the moon 430HA though.
 From what I remember of when I had the HD800 the GS-X would really play to its strengths, pulls plenty of detail, great instrument separation and near perfect texturing. Slightly narrower soundstage, but the HD800's have plenty to spare. GS-X isn't an ideal pairing with the Abyss though. 
 Having said that I wouldn't give up on the WA5 just yet, I think the elrogs, a pair of mullard GZ34's and some good NOS driver tubes will be a game changer for the Woo. You won't get the same level of musicality from SS, plus the Elrog and Takatsuki 300b's really are in a class above and beyond any other 300b.


----------



## Audioclyde

Anyone that has both the Takatsuki 300B's and the Elrogs, I for one am eager for any further comparisons/updates--my TA300B's are just reaching the 50-60 hour stage and I'm really liking what I'm hearing (my 'backups' are the SERP's, so no slouches in their own right).  At some point I know I will want to add the Elrogs to my stash (although the wallet has to recover first!).
  
 Thanks,
  
 Randy


----------



## Fririce0003

audioclyde said:


> Anyone that has both the Takatsuki 300B's and the Elrogs, I for one am eager for any further comparisons/updates--my TA300B's are just reaching the 50-60 hour stage and I'm really liking what I'm hearing (my 'backups' are the SERP's, so no slouches in their own right).  At some point I know I will want to add the Elrogs to my stash (although the wallet has to recover first!).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Randy




The most qualified person to answer that would be isquirrel.
In the mean time, I've heard both the takatsuki and elrog, though it was when they were still rather new. Accordingly they stabilise around the 120-150 hour mark. I've got the Takatsuki's, no hours in them yet. I've also got some elrogs on the way.
 From my listening, the elrog seem to be a punchier, more lively listen. Their speed and tonality adds a bit of life to the music, with the elrog you don't trade off detail for musicality. They're still a very detailed tube. 
 In comparison the Takatsuki has a more "sophisticated", euphonic sound. The soundstage is wider, deeper and taller, decay on the sound is longer but not bloomy. Bass quantity and extension is also better. Details are also slightly more prominent. 
 The two tube are both top notch, they're both voiced very differently and sound rather different. They complement each other rather competing over the same sound, a favourite tube of the two would change depending on what music I'm listening to and what mood I'm in. The elrogs would be a welcome addition to the tube stash. Sorry I couldn't save your wallet


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Tube warmup seems to come fully good in the 2nd hour, I switch mine on and notice it takes good hour for them to settle. Curious about the Moon too, lot to be said for now having to worry about tubes failing etc. Though for me I am a diehard tube fan, the Elrog's moved the goalposts a fair way for me I always found a good tube pre-amp into SSD power amps was the best way to go for speakers etc.


 

 I'm curious... do you warm up while playing music or do you switch on your amp and come back in an hour?


----------



## longbowbbs

krutsch said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> > Tube warmup seems to come fully good in the 2nd hour, I switch mine on and notice it takes good hour for them to settle. Curious about the Moon too, lot to be said for now having to worry about tubes failing etc. Though for me I am a diehard tube fan, the Elrog's moved the goalposts a fair way for me I always found a good tube pre-amp into SSD power amps was the best way to go for speakers etc.
> ...


 
 A few calisthenics or sometimes a nice sweater work for me....


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> The Elrogs and the Metal Base GZ34 take quite a few hours to perform their best, my GZ 34's really sounded their best with some serious hours, well over 200, the Elrog's have now got 200 hours and are a different animal now. Really opened up and clarity, bass has all improved.
> 
> The good news is that the metal base GZ 34's will most likely outlast you, they are good for 100,000 hours apparently. Which date code do you have on yours?


 
  
 March 1957.  I've had metal base GZ 34s (we really need a clever nickname for this tube) in the past for my WA6 (now sold)-- It was by far my favorite rectifier in that amp and the tube sold for more than I paid for it.
  
 Getting a matched pair for the WA5LE took forever, and when I first put them in the amp with the Sylvania drivers I wasn't exactly impressed.  Good, but it wasn't as nice as the 596.  The RCA driver at least closes the gap.  Much better pairing for the 34, and I'm not sure which tube I like better at the moment.


----------



## reeltime

justin_time said:


> Have you tried the Woo with the Sylvania 6F8G or the Shuguang 50-Year Treasure CV-181 Z (preferably grade A+)?
> 
> You may not get the silky smooth, feather-light treble of the GS-X--no other amp will give you that--but instead you will get the liquid, lush midrange that you will not get from the GS-X, a very favorable trade-off to my ears.  Plus you get a fuller bass, something that the HD800 sorely needs, without much sacrifice in the speed.


 
  
 I've not tried the Sylvania 6F8G nor the Shugaung.  My previous tube was the EML Mesh (great sound) and the 596 (great sound, poor match for the EML).  
  
 I'm a huge fan of the HD800.  It only sounds great once you give it an amp with clean high output.  With the WA6, it was a nice headphone, but unremarkable.  The Burson was only a decent match.  The WA5LE (or WA5), Dark Star, Liquid Fire, any of these great expensive amps take the HD800 to another level.  The only headphone I've heard that bests it, to my ear, is the Stax 009.  But you need to amp the hell out of it.  My opinion, of course.
  


fririce0003 said:


> I wouldn't give up on the WA5 just yet, I think the elrogs, a pair of mullard GZ34's and some good NOS driver tubes will be a game changer for the Woo. You won't get the same level of musicality from SS, plus the Elrog and Takatsuki 300b's really are in a class above and beyond any other 300b.


 
  
 My WA5LE isn't going anywhere.  Even if I buy a GSX at some point, I'm not selling the Woo.  I just love the thing.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> I'm curious... do you warm up while playing music or do you switch on your amp and come back in an hour?


 

 I switch on and sometimes listen to the tubes heating up to make sure there are no problems with zero volume, I can hear the thinking of the plates as they slowly warm. That takes apparel 10 mins for all of the macro noises to disappear and for silence. I then know I have no issues.
  
 As you can tell I have had more than my fair share of tube drama's. I go make some coffee, have my beloved morning smoke and then come back and have a listen.
  
 An old timer friend who used to be in the tube manufacturing industry told this is how he treats his tubes. With respect, as he says some of my tubes are nearly 90 years old. You wouldn't chert in your car and give it full rev's until the oil is warmed through, that's how I treat my tubes. I don't run my tubes for more than 4-5 hours as a general rule.
  
 With respect to Tony's post re SS vs Tubes, I am each way on this, I have had some big power amps with 32 big 6550 power tubes and have had spectacular blow up's in just about every tube I have owned at some stage or another. Its inevitable. This always seemed to happen when I was 2-3 hours into a late night listening session, listening to vinyl and everything just on song and magic sound was pouring out of the speakers and then bang - literally a small explosion and fireworks to match which would frighten the **** of me and anyone else listening, usually the wife.
  
 In the end much as I loved tube power amps the only one's I found that worked reliably for me were the Lamm's. However I still ended up going back to SS amp's with a tube pre amp and phono stage. I still believe this is the best solution for my sanity (which is questionable anyway) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There's a lot to be said for SS which with a HP amp I would feel comfortable leaving on 24/7. Trouble is I like to tinker and tune the sound and SS prohibits this.


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> I'm curious... do you warm up while playing music or do you switch on your amp and come back in an hour?


I switch my amp on and by the time I've made some coffee the WA6 is ready to go. The second hour seems to sound better for some reason though.*


longbowbbs said:



			A few calisthenics or sometimes a nice sweater work for me....

Click to expand...

*I could do 100 push-ups and sit-ups in five minutes, but getting a comfy cashmere sweater is a lot easier at my age.


----------



## isquirrel

I will go on to say the that when I sat down and did the math on the inevitable upgrade cycle, having to sell gear at at a loss and then the knowledge that I was buying something that I knew I would upgrade at some time did not make economic or sane reasoning to me. 
  
 This is no better explanation of this than a quote from Chris Sommovigo in this review of the 234's http://thehighfidelityreport.com/dream-machine/
  
*"One of the questions that invariably arises in explorations of price and value is the one that asks how much money the end-user will eventually lose over a lifetime of constant upgrading and trading-in, etc. If we’re frank with ourselves, the sum can oftentimes get scary. The secondary market has become the primary market, it seems, with the neurotic masses looking to minimize their risks by purchasing used gear at less-than 50% original retail. Risks of what? They already know, ahead of time, that they’re going to sell the thing that they’re about to buy. And so, the abusive cycle of constant “upgrading” takes hold (that, in itself, is a psychological oddity to me, this idea of being pre-dissatisfied, but that’s a subject for another discussion). Over the years, a  serious amount of money is invariably lost in this crazy merry-go-round. Woo’s products in general aren’t fit for that kind of trade-around (you hardly find them for sale on the second-hand market), and this is especially true of the 234 mono blocs."*
  
Tony has raised an a very good point, if I do the math on the valves (all of them) and the possible future valve upgrades then for sure you could spend a great deal on an SS amp and still be better off. Will it have that tube sound that I personally prefer - no - will it empty my wallet - yes.
  
Its our personal choices that we make on this journey that define the outcome we are ultimately in a quest for and that's a very personal matter. Thank goodness we don't all like the same thing - life would be very boring indeed!


----------



## longbowbbs

bpcans said:


> Quote:Quote:
> 
> 
> longbowbbs said:
> ...


 
 I agree with that choice!


----------



## isquirrel

audioclyde said:


> Anyone that has both the Takatsuki 300B's and the Elrogs, I for one am eager for any further comparisons/updates--my TA300B's are just reaching the 50-60 hour stage and I'm really liking what I'm hearing (my 'backups' are the SERP's, so no slouches in their own right).  At some point I know I will want to add the Elrogs to my stash (although the wallet has to recover first!).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Randy


 

 I have a quiet day and both sets of tubes are fully run in, so I will compare my notes and sit down and do a write up of both tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> *....*
> Tony has raised an a very good point, if I do the math on the valves (all of them) and the possible future valve upgrades then for sure you could spend a great deal on an SS amp and still be better off. Will it have that tube sound that I personally prefer - no - will it empty my wallet - yes.
> 
> Its our personal choices that we make on this journey that define the outcome we are ultimately in a quest for and that's a very personal matter. Thank goodness we don't all like the same thing - life would be very boring indeed!


 
  
 That's the dilemma I am struggling with.
  
 Thinking I might pass on the Elrogs and stick with the tube goodness I already have for occasional enjoyment and use my SS gear for everyday listening. It is just way more practical, and I am finding the SQ (from floor standers and headphones) very good indeed.
  
 You can get slightly warm-of-neutral sounding SS gear that is a lovely listening experience - which is what I have. That 'tube magic' isn't there, but I think that dollar-for-dollar SS beats tube in just about every other sonic measure i.e. SS is closer to the source sound than tube - but it is what tubes do with the 2nd order distortion, on vocals in particular, that makes them addictive. That lovely visceral smoothness and fullness that it adds. That is just a wonderful sound.


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> March 1957.  I've had metal base GZ 34s (we really need a clever nickname for this tube) in the past for my WA6 (now sold)-- It was by far my favorite rectifier in that amp and the tube sold for more than I paid for it.
> 
> Getting a matched pair for the WA5LE took forever, and when I first put them in the amp with the Sylvania drivers I wasn't exactly impressed.  Good, but it wasn't as nice as the 596.  The RCA driver at least closes the gap.  Much better pairing for the 34, and I'm not sure which tube I like better at the moment.


 

 Mine are 1957 Holland production as well. 
  
 Sorry if I harp about these however I cannot recommend the 6SN7 TS RP black glass highly enough, they are the foundation of the tube sound in my system, I can live without Elrog's, T 300B's if I had to, but the TS are a game changer. That's why I buy every good pair I can find. They last maybe 10,000 hours and I have had some fail. I have tried every other 6SN7 and nothing comes remotely close to these except the early WW2 era RCA grey glass with clipped ears. The RCA's are very variable, some are gold others are as worthless as dust. Generally the early production one's are good. Though the best are still only 75% of the TS RP's
  
 Some people like the Red Base 5692, true its built like a tank, but its not as good as the Grey Glass WW2 era tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Mine are 1957 Holland production as well.
> 
> Sorry if I harp about these however I cannot recommend the 6SN7 TS RP black glass highly enough, they are the foundation of the tube sound in my system, I can live without Elrog's, T 300B's if I had to, but the TS are a game changer. That's why I buy every good pair I can find. They last maybe 10,000 hours and I have had some fail. I have tried every other 6SN7 and nothing comes remotely close to these except the early WW2 era RCA grey glass with clipped ears. The RCA's are very variable, some are gold others are as worthless as dust. Generally the early production one's are good. Though the best are still only 75% of the TS RP's
> 
> Some people like the Red Base 5692, true its built like a tank, but its not as good as the Grey Glass WW2 era tubes.


 
  
 Have you tried any 6F8Gs? I have bought a bunch of 6F8Gs to try as soon as my adapters turn up.
  
 I have been told that some of the 6F8Gs, such as the National Union, are close in performance to the 6SN7 TSRPs at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## Justin_Time

isquirrel said:


>


 
 This picture of the Audio Research amp is...breathtaking!


----------



## longbowbbs

justin_time said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 So does that generator power the whole house or just one floor?


----------



## Krutsch

longbowbbs said:


> A few calisthenics or sometimes a nice sweater work for me....


 
  
  


bpcans said:


> I switch my amp on and by the time I've made some coffee the WA6 is ready to go. The second hour seems to sound better for some reason though.
> *I could do 100 push-ups and sit-ups in five minutes*, but getting a comfy cashmere sweater is a lot easier at my age.


 
  
 Back in my US Army Ranger days, I could you join you for that, but today I would be lucky to do 10 push-ups in five minutes (well, lucky to 10 in any amount of time). Too many years of Emacs and Adobe Illustrator & Photoshop, sitting in an aeron chair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll stick with making coffee (am) or mixing a martini (pm) as my warm-up exercise.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> I switch on and sometimes listen to the tubes heating up to make sure there are no problems with zero volume, I can hear the thinking of the plates as they slowly warm. That takes apparel 10 mins for all of the macro noises to disappear and for silence. I then know I have no issues.
> 
> As you can tell I have had more than my fair share of tube drama's. I go make some coffee, have my beloved morning smoke and then come back and have a listen.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great post, Simon, as always - very informative. I've been lucky to not have had any tube drama (yet, I'm a noobie at the tube game), but I'm sure it's coming.
  
 And, like you, part of the juice for me is the tinkering and tube rolling is as fun as it gets. While I am hovering at a few orders of magni-tube below your collection, I still have collected a lot of glass for the WA3 / WA2 (the Siemens CCa tubes arrived today):
  

  
  
 ...so Tony's point is a very valid one. I am afraid to add it all up ($$$); many were inexpensive, but some were not, and I suspect I could be rockin' a serious SS amp for the all-in cost. But what's the fun in that... and kidding aside, I am really enamored with the tube sound, for all of its pros and cons. I feel like I've discovered a new dimension to music listening and I don't want to go back. I will sit at my desk and listen for 4-6 hours straight 'til 3am, something I've not done since I was a kid.
  
 My daughter looked at my tube cabinet, looked at my amp and said: "...I don't get it, your headphone amp only needs three tubes, which are in there now; what are all of those other ones for?"
  
 I don't really have an answer that doesn't sound like something from an addict.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

LOL!


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible...*_*and visible.*_
  
 :  :  Warm-up  :  :   Nearly all of my listening sessions are reserved. Knowing start times in advance gives me the luxury of firing up the system and let it run long before I expect to be seated. Although my focus is usually on tube gear during this period, the solid state amp benefits as well when on deck. It's customary for me to have two to four hour warm-ups, while I wrap things up, so as to not be interrupted later _in-session. _
  
 :  :  Tube versus Solid State  :  :    I love the presentation both amps return. Both are indeed special to my ears and I enjoy what I hear..._always. _That said, my preference between the two particular models I have is the glass hands-down over the chips! This is less about tube versus solid state in general, and everything to do with the particular models I have.
  
 It so happens that my tube mono blocks can do everything the big solid state amp can, while maintaining that tube magic. My monos are fast, detailed, refined, immediate and so on, not a slow and syrupy tube offering. It's got Bass and can hit! The Siemens F2a glass is a wonderful output tube that got its start in German Cinema much in the same way the WE300B emerged. _This tube can swing._
  
 - Shindo Laboratory F2a Sinhonia monaural amps
 - Sansui G-22000
  
 The Sansui receiver (dual mono construction) is no slouch either. The top engineers behind Sansui's TOTL amps/receivers were recruited over to Hashimoto-Japan, the makers of fine Output Transformers.


----------



## longbowbbs

One of the things about SS VS tubes is you can leave it on all the time. My new Moon Neo 430HA barely gets warm. I have to make sure my Cary is turned off before I head out. A couple of times it ended up on for a couple days. Hate to waste the tube life that way!


----------



## Silent One

Yeah, tube life is something that 'neaked past me...


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> Mine are 1957 Holland production as well.
> 
> Sorry if I harp about these however I cannot recommend the 6SN7 TS RP black glass highly enough, they are the foundation of the tube sound in my system, I can live without Elrog's, T 300B's if I had to, but the TS are a game changer. That's why I buy every good pair I can find. They last maybe 10,000 hours and I have had some fail. I have tried every other 6SN7 and nothing comes remotely close to these except the early WW2 era RCA grey glass with clipped ears. The RCA's are very variable, some are gold others are as worthless as dust. Generally the early production one's are good. Though the best are still only 75% of the TS RP's
> 
> Some people like the Red Base 5692, true its built like a tank, but its not as good as the Grey Glass WW2 era tubes.


 

 I got a pair of 1948 RCAs.  I paid a little extra, around $90, but from what I've read (and now heard) it was worth the added cost.  
  
 If I can find the Tung Sol, I'll pick up a pair to audition (nothing on eBay at the moment).  Fortunately the 6SN7 doesn't run as expensive as some of the other tubes!
  
 I just listed all of my EML glass on eBay.


----------



## JohanGao

Waiting for my WA6SE in a few days....


----------



## Badas

johangao said:


> Waiting for my WA6SE in a few days....


 

 Exciting. It doesn't get much better than getting new Woo gear.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

johangao said:


> Waiting for my WA6SE in a few days....


 
 Ah, congratulations.  I owned that amp for several years and it's wonderful.  I preferred it with the Sophia 274b mesh plate rectifier tube....audio goodness....
  
 I'm sure you got it in silver!


----------



## Badas

z06_pilot said:


> I'm sure you got it in silver!


 
  
 What gives and the fascination with silver? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I love my Woo in black.


----------



## Khragon

With the exception of WA234, I like my Woo in silver.  Silver provide a nice lightning reflection that's just not there with black.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> With the exception of WA234, I like my Woo in silver.  Silver provide a nice lightning reflection that's just not there with black.


 

 Oh, I agree. The Woo gear looks beautiful in Silver. However black looks so mean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I get the whole Silver love. Just in some systems like mine black is the only way to go.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Everyone knows that Black Woos sonically beat Silver Woos, hands down!


----------



## Fririce0003

sko0bydoo said:


> Everyone knows that Black Woos sonically beat Silver Woos, hands down!




It's a proven fact, I don't think I've seen a silver 234 out in the wild yet!


----------



## Badas

Last few weeks I have been working on DAC's after TonyNewMan told me that my Oppo HA-1 DAC sounded like a fart in a can (no he didn't say that). After hearing his Vega DAC I had to agree. 

I tried the Cambrige Audio DacMagic 100 which cleaned up the harsh bright treble from the HA-1. However it was a little on the cold side. Super awesome for the price tho.

Now I have the Arcam irDac (pictured under my Arcam drDock). Wow. Very nice. Super clean and nice mid-range push. Treble is also nicely controlled. It has also improved my speakers a lot. 

Flow on effect to the Woo WA22 as well. Never sounded so good. I didn't realise how much the fart in a can DAC was ruining everything. Might have to get Tony over for round 2 listen. 

I thought about posting this info into the Oppo thread but the fanboys will likely bash me up. Far safer here.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Last few weeks I have been working on DAC's after TonyNewMan told me that my Oppo HA-1 DAC sounded like a fart in a can (no he didn't say that). After hearing his Vega DAC I had to agree.
> 
> ....
> 
> I thought about posting this info into the Oppo thread but the fanboys will likely bash me up. Far safer here.


 
  
 The Vega is a lot of DAC goodness for the money. One of my "less dumb" audio purchases. Highly musical and detailed, it has matched up well to everything I have connected it to (WA5, 430HA, Taurus).
  
 I would be very interested to hear if some other Woo-ites are also feeding their amps via the Vega.
  
 The Woo folks are a gentle bunch - I think it is the mellowing effect of the tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only imagine the feeding frenzy that would result in the Oppo thread if you posted a review of the Oppo DAC that included the words 'bright' and 'harsh' (don't do it)


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The Woo folks are a gentle bunch - I think it is the mellowing effect of the tubes :wink_face: I can only imagine the feeding frenzy that would result in the Oppo thread if you posted a review of the Oppo DAC that included the words 'bright' and 'harsh' (don't do it)




Don't worry. I value my life. I won't go there.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> I thought about posting this info into the Oppo thread but the fanboys will likely bash me up. Far safer here.


 
  
 Oppo fanboys are amateurs compared to Hugo fanboys... I'm kind of disappointed Woo fanboys don't have much of a scary reputation. I think we should form a Woo gang... the W00ts? The Woo-Tang Clan?


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> The Vega is a lot of DAC goodness for the money. One of my "less dumb" audio purchases. Highly musical and detailed, it has matched up well to everything I have connected it to (WA5, 430HA, Taurus).
> 
> I would be very interested to hear if some other Woo-ites are also feeding their amps via the Vega.
> 
> The Woo folks are a gentle bunch - I think it is the mellowing effect of the tubes :wink_face: I can only imagine the feeding frenzy that would result in the Oppo thread if you posted a review of the Oppo DAC that included the words 'bright' and 'harsh' (don't do it)




Fellow Vega user here, wonderful DAC for the price range. Detailed, quick and enjoyable.... Though after hearing the DaVinci I'd be lying if I said I wasn't lusting after some R2R goodness. 



stereolab42 said:


> Oppo fanboys are amateurs compared to Hugo fanboys... I'm kind of disappointed Woo fanboys don't have much of a scary reputation. I think we should form a Woo gang... the W00ts? The Woo-Tang Clan?




Being Asian and all I vote for Woo-Tang Clan...


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Fellow Vega user here, wonderful DAC for the price range. Detailed, quick and enjoyable.... Though after hearing the DaVinci I'd be lying if I said I wasn't lusting after some R2R goodness.
> ...


 
  
 Light Harmonics DaVinci DAC - my unlimited budget dream DAC. Never going to happen, but dreams are free 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
DaVinci Dream DAC
  
 Putting the Ultra in Ultra High End.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Light Harmonics DaVinci DAC - my unlimited budget dream DAC. Never going to happen, but dreams are free :wink_face:
> 
> DaVinci Dream DAC
> 
> Putting the Ultra in Ultra High End.




 I'd be happy to sit at my listening station, put on some tunes and spend the rest of the day just swivelling the top... Maybe I'm just easily amused


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> I'd be happy to sit at my listening station, put on some tunes and spend the rest of the day just swivelling the top... Maybe I'm just easily amused


 
  
 The top of the DAC _*swivels ?!?! *_





 - that's just too much. I have to stop researching audio gear I can never afford. It just hurts


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> The top of the DAC _*[COLOR=FF0000]swivels ?!?![/COLOR]*_ :blink: - that's just too much. I have to stop researching audio gear I can never afford. It just hurts :tongue_smile:




We've all got to have dreams! Any yup it swivels, nice solid feel. Read the absolute sound review of it, 3rd paragraph around half way. The rotating action is certainly a selling point.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Oppo fanboys are amateurs compared to Hugo fanboys... I'm kind of disappointed Woo fanboys don't have much of a scary reputation. I think we should form a Woo gang... the W00ts? The Woo-Tang Clan?




Very good. What about Woohoo???

Hugo aye? I read some comment a bit back that the Hugo can be harsh as well. It is not often mentioned as fanboys gang up. 

Seems similar to the Oppo HA-1. Stupid thing is any cheap outboard DAC vastly improves it. Get a good mid price one and the HA-1 really sings. Nothing wrong with the class A amp. That performs really well. Great enough for short listening times.


----------



## Stereolab42

I actually really enjoyed the Oppo HA-1 as a combo DAC/amp (and space heater), and compared it head-to-head against some serious iron. Hard to beat for the price.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> I actually really enjoyed the Oppo HA-1 as a combo DAC/amp (and space heater), and compared it head-to-head against some serious iron. Hard to beat for the price.




I don't dislike it. Just a little disappointed with the DAC. It can get unruly in the treble. Which sounds bright or harsh. Now I have added the Arcam to do DAC duties I like it a lot. The amp side and interface is real nice.


----------



## Z06_Pilot

stereolab42 said:


> I actually really enjoyed the Oppo HA-1 as a combo DAC/amp (and space heater), and compared it head-to-head against some serious iron. Hard to beat for the price.


 
 Yes indeed, the HA-1 does help keep us warm here during this miserable winter we are having in the Midwest !  I agree with you.  To my amateur ears (which thankfully, keep this hobby "relatively" within my monetary means!)  the HA-1 DAC/Amp combo is simply wonderful.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

I'm happy with my saucy source....The Chord Electronics Blu CD Transporter linked to QBD76 DAC via dual BNC cables to give me 176kHz sampling rate.   Also looks amazing.
  
 And if I get fed up with playing CD's I can go analogue with my Origin Live Turntable with my records being cleaned by my Keith Monks RCM.
  
 And if I can't be bothered to take out a record or a CD I can play direct from my MacBook with files up to 196kHz with the QBD76 or higher with my Chord Chordette Qute DAC. 
  
 Can't wait to see the new QBD DAC though i.e. a giant triple turbo charged Hugo !!!!


----------



## Krutsch

stereolab42 said:


> Oppo fanboys are amateurs compared to Hugo fanboys... I'm kind of disappointed Woo fanboys don't have much of a scary reputation. I think we should form a Woo gang... the W00ts? *The Woo-Tang Clan?*


 
  
 Wouldn't it be more like: Woo-Tung Clan


----------



## JohanGao

my silver woo WA6SE just arrive this night with the sophia princes 274B, very happy with the sound....
 Now my target is searching for good DAC, but I'm confuse to placing the DAC because my desk is running out of space.. 
 Can you tell which better to have a desktop DAC or just buy AK240 and I can use it as a portable player and as a DAC for Woo WA6SE
 Is the DAC section of AK240 really good enough, does its DAC section worth the price?
  
 I am considering to buy Chord Hugo or AK240 as a DAC, because of their small form factor which would not takes much space...


----------



## bpcans

johangao said:


> my silver woo WA6SE just arrive this night with the sophia princes 274B, very happy with the sound....
> Now my target is searching for good DAC, but I'm confuse to placing the DAC because my desk is running out of space..
> Can you tell which better to have a desktop DAC or just buy AK240 and I can use it as a portable player and as a DAC for Woo WA6SE
> Is the DAC section of AK240 really good enough, does its DAC section worth the price?
> ...


I've heard the Hugo with my WA6, and if you can swing it I'd definitely say get the Hugo. I'd also recommend the Moon Audio RCA ~ RCA cables, they're kinda pricey but they fit the Hugo perfectly. Then of course I'll be green with envy.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

johangao said:


> my silver woo WA6SE just arrive this night with the sophia princes 274B, very happy with the sound....
> Now my target is searching for good DAC, but I'm confuse to placing the DAC because my desk is running out of space..
> Can you tell which better to have a desktop DAC or just buy AK240 and I can use it as a portable player and as a DAC for Woo WA6SE
> Is the DAC section of AK240 really good enough, does its DAC section worth the price?
> ...


 

 From my experience with DAC's for a desk top rig I would either get;
  
 1)  A second hand QBD76 either the first version or HD or HDSD although the HDSD is still expensive.  If you buy the first version you can always upgrade in the future.  Yiu can also go balanced if you upgrade your amp in the future. 
  
 2) Buy a second hand Chord Chordette Qute 
  
 3) Buy a new Chord Chordette 2Qute  (out soon)
  
 4) Second hand  Arcam FMJ D33 DAC.   
  
 I have a WA6 SE and have used it with my QBD76 and Qute DAC.    Sound is very clear and transparent without being too clinical with good sound stage.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

bonesy jonesy said:


> From my experience with DAC's for a desk top rig I would either get;
> 
> 1)  A second hand QBD76 either the first version or HD or HDSD although the HDSD is still expensive.  If you buy the first version you can always upgrade in the future.  Yiu can also go balanced if you upgrade your amp in the future.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Reason I also mention the Arcam FMJ D33 DAC is I have heard it a headfi.org members house connected to a KGST amp and Stax 009 headphones.   It sounded very nice.  Smooth, clear and neutral with a nice non fatiguing musical felling to it with good soundstage.   Would be interesting to how it would sound with a WA6 SE or any other Woo tube amp.  
  
 FYI I also found the Chord Chordette Qute DAC linked to my WA3 also sounded very nice for what the amp cost even with upgraded tubes.


----------



## Badas

bonesy jonesy said:


> Reason I also mention the Arcam FMJ D33 DAC is I have heard it a headfi.org members house connected to a KGST amp and Stax 009 headphones.   It sounded very nice.  Smooth, clear and neutral with a nice non fatiguing musical felling to it with good soundstage.   Would be interesting to how it would sound with a WA6 SE or any other Woo tube amp.
> 
> FYI I also found the Chord Chordette Qute DAC linked to my WA3 also sounded very nice for what the amp cost even with upgraded tubes.


 

 A lot of the tech in the Arcam FMJ D33 DAC was filtered down to the Arcam irDAC that I have just received. The DAC is going through big changes as it burns in however I like what I'm hearing. A lot similar to what you have mentioned above.
  
 I would really like to get the Chord one day tho. I will put some $$'s aside and watch the second hand market. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The DAC change has taken the WA22 to whole new level.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> The DAC change has taken the WA22 to whole new level.


 
  
 I still have an evil plan to hook your WA22 up to my Vega DAC at some point and blow your tiny mind...


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

badas said:


> A lot of the tech in the Arcam FMJ D33 DAC was filtered down to the Arcam irDAC that I have just received. The DAC is going through big changes as it burns in however I like what I'm hearing. A lot similar to what you have mentioned above.
> 
> I would really like to get the Chord one day tho. I will put some $$'s aside *and watch the second hand market*.
> 
> ...


 

 Will be interesting Badas how the irDAC will sound with the WA22 when it has fully burned in.
  
 The first version of the QBD76 can be had for a song on the second hand market along with the Blu Transporter.   Last year I purchased my second mint condition 3 year old QBD76 in the UK for £1,500 and last week I bought my second mint condition Blu Transporter for £1,400 both with the Chord boxes.   As the Chord Electronics equipment is so well built and designed you don't have to worry about lasting quality and performance etc.   Chord Electronics also have a fantastic after sales service so you also have that piece of mind.  The Blu with the QBD76 is just awesome.  In my opinion it beats hi-res digital files hands down as it has more of an analogue feel to the sound.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I still have an evil plan to hook your WA22 up to my Vega DAC at some point and blow your tiny mind...


 
  
 It is a great plan. Very evil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. You know I like that DAC. It's qualities shine throughout your system. I will cry if you installed and took it away. Either that or I will just not use my gear afterwards. Kinda happened when I took the last visit to your place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


bonesy jonesy said:


> Will be interesting Badas how the irDAC will sound with the WA22 when it has fully burned in.
> 
> The first version of the QBD76 can be had for a song on the second hand market along with the Blu Transporter.   Last year I purchased my second mint condition 3 year old QBD76 in the UK for £1,500 and last week I bought my second mint condition Blu Transporter for £1,400 both with the Chord boxes.   As the Chord Electronics equipment is so well built and designed you don't have to worry about lasting quality and performance etc.   Chord Electronics also have a fantastic after sales service so you also have that piece of mind.  The Blu with the QBD76 is just awesome. * In my opinion it beats hi-res digital files hands down as it has more of an analogue feel to the sound. *


 
  
 Biggest improvement has been to the Oppo HA-1. Which I'm really pleased about because I plan to use it more for short listening times. I hadn't used it in months as it sounded horrid.
 Only downside was I use to demo the difference between SS and tubes to my friends. Now the HA-1 has improved the difference is not as dramatic. I can hear it but a friend would not.
  
 Chord is definitely on my to do list. Maybe latter in the year. I need my wallet to recover first. I do like your comments on it.


----------



## musicman59

I just got an email that my my matched pair of Elrog 300b will be shipped on Monday!


----------



## Krutsch

New tubes (Siemens CCa) and, finally, tube savers that were recommended by @Badas or @TonyNewman(can't recall).
  
 Nice build quality and I combined them with some Bake-lite, gold-pinned, 9-pin savers. I am going to give the CCa tubes a week of burn-in with the Western Electric power tube, then I start writing up my comparisons. I think I am finished buying tubes for the WA3...


----------



## JohanGao

so AK240 is not worth to buy for DAC, I am considering to buy this AK240 because the small form factor and many people say it has great sound quality and the DAC section is also great beside I can use it as portable player, but the price is really hurting...
 For Chord chordete or other, I think would be very hard to find in here, especially for the second one..
 So maybe I still maintain to buy Chord HUGO or AK240 but after my wallet have recovery...


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

johangao said:


> so AK240 is not worth to buy for DAC, I am considering to buy this AK240 because the small form factor and many people say it has great sound quality and the DAC section is also great beside I can use it as portable player, but the price is really hurting...
> For Chord chordete or other, I think would be very hard to find in here, especially for the second one..
> So maybe I still maintain to buy Chord HUGO or AK240 but after my wallet have recovery...


 
 I heard the Hugo and the AK240 back to back using the same headphones (Audeze LCD-XC) and music last year.  The AK240 was being used in balanced output mode for the headphones. 
  
 The toe-tapping pleasure of listening to the music as it was presented the AK240 in my opinion was better.  It was warmer with nice non-piercing treble present.  Also the size, form factor and the in-built screen also won.   The Hugo was more digital and colder sounding than the AK240.  
  
 Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> A lot of the tech in the Arcam FMJ D33 DAC was filtered down to the* Arcam irDAC that I have just received. *The DAC is going through big changes as it burns in however I like what I'm hearing. A lot similar to what you have mentioned above.
> 
> I would really like to get the Chord one day tho. I will put some $$'s aside and watch the second hand market.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on your new DAC. The irDAC was on my short list when I upgraded mine. Love the Arcam house sound...


----------



## JohanGao

bonesy jonesy said:


> I heard the Hugo and the AK240 back to back using the same headphones (Audeze LCD-XC) and music last year.  The AK240 was being used in balanced output mode for the headphones.
> 
> The toe-tapping pleasure of listening to the music as it was presented the AK240 in my opinion was better.  It was warmer with nice non-piercing treble present.  Also the size, form factor and the in-built screen also won.   The Hugo was more digital and colder sounding than the AK240.
> 
> Just my opinion of course.


 
 thanks for the sharing Bonesy... then AK240 would become my next target...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Which version of the 240 did you listen to?


----------



## Khragon

Peaked my interest with the Arcam irDAC.  Can you elaborate on its sound compared to HA1?


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Peaked my interest with the Arcam irDAC.  Can you elaborate on its sound compared to HA1?


 
  
 In my opinion.
  
 Oppo HA-1. Neutral throughout the frequency range. Slightly cold sounding. The upper treble frequencies get unruly. Sound harsh, to my ears distort. I cringe on bright music. Some music to my ears is just not listenable.
  
 Arcam irDac. Couldn't be more different. Every frequency has a warm tinge. Creamy. Bass extends nicely. Most definitely a mid-range bump. Treble is rendered with great detail and soundstage. Never sounds harsh. All music types sound great. I could listen to this all day. Out of the box the DAC sounds very, very dark. With hours on it the sound changes completely.


----------



## Khragon

badas said:


> In my opinion.
> 
> Oppo HA-1. Neutral throughout the frequency range. Slightly cold sounding. The upper treble frequencies get unruly. Sound harsh, to my ears distort. I cringe on bright music. Some music to my ears is just not listenable.
> 
> Arcam irDac. Couldn't be more different. Every frequency has a warm tinge. Creamy. Bass extends nicely. Most definitely a mid-range bump. Treble is rendered with great detail and soundstage. Never sounds harsh. All music types sound great. I could listen to this all day. Out of the box the DAC sounds very, very dark. With hours on it the sound changes completely.


 

 Thanks, the irDac as you described it sounded very much to my taste... thanks again.  How does WA22 sounds with the DAC given that it doesn't have balanced output?  based on your description, look like it sounded pretty good still.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

nic rhodes said:


> Which version of the 240 did you listen to?


 

 Ooo I can't remember the actual version.  Only that I was listening to hi-res music files and I was using the balanced plug for the LCD-XC's. I listened to it at last years Bristol Hi-Fi Show


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Thanks, the irDac as you described it sounded very much to my taste... thanks again.  How does WA22 sounds with the DAC given that it doesn't have balanced output?  based on your description, look like it sounded pretty good still.


 

 My WA22 and the tubes I selected was masking how bad the DAC was performing. I haven't put to many hours on it with the new DAC. However I had noted deeper bass. That mid-range push and treble improvements. Not as dramatic as the Solid State HA-1 (I'm just using the amp section now and that performs well) but I could hear it. There is not a big difference between SS and tubes now. Tubes still have it but not by far. WA22 didn't sound any different not using a balanced DAC. WA22 is still my go to amp but I will use the HA1 for short listening sessions.


----------



## MIKELAP

Got myself several 6F8G tubes and a adapter that Glenn is currently working on .One thing i noticed is RCA and SYLVANIA have the exact same structure i also have a single Westinghouse and a single G.E. is there other brands that were made that have  similar G.E. and WESTINGHOUSE plate structure.first is the G.E. second and third picture is Westinghouse with rounded plate each side .Thanks


----------



## Badas

Tony and I were discussing this yesterday. Re branding in 6F8G's is terrible. Even worse than 6SN7's.
  
 We have between us 3 different types of RCA 6F8G's. All with different plate structures.
  
 It is best to test and discover what you prefer and then buy spares based on structure not badge.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Tony and I were discussing this yesterday. Re branding in 6F8G's is terrible. Even worse than 6SN7's.
> 
> We have between us 3 different types of RCA 6F8G's. All with different plate structures.
> 
> It is best to test and discover what you prefer and then buy spares based on structure not badge.


 
 Was checking out different structures and like you say its a mess what i had so far was WESTINGHOUSE ,TUNG SOL maybe PHILCO not shure with this one are similar. After RCA, RAYTHEON, G.E. and ,SYLVANIA are similar and for G.E. i see a KENRAD but its really messy you really need to have a good look at them but the ones that have smoked glass i guess similar ones should have smoked glass also you think .Busy busy.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Was checking out different structures and like you say its a mess what i had so far was WESTINGHOUSE ,TUNG SOL maybe PHILCO not shure with this one are similar. After RCA, RAYTHEON, G.E. and ,SYLVANIA are similar and for G.E. i see a KENRAD but its really messy you really need to have a good look at them but the ones that have smoked glass i guess similar ones should have smoked glass also you think .*Busy busy.*


 
 We (Tony and I) are doing the same thing.
 Between us we have a few variants. So we will test then choose.


----------



## bpcans

mikelap said:


> Got myself several 6F8G tubes and a adapter that Glenn is currently working on .One thing i noticed is RCA and SYLVANIA have the exact same structure i also have a single Westinghouse and a single G.E. is there other brands that were made that have  similar G.E. and WESTINGHOUSE plate structure.first is the G.E. second and third picture is Westinghouse with rounded plate each side .Thanks


Wow! Outstanding pics. Exemplary!


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Okay the first one looks like a RCA. Probably re-badged. See how bad it is. The RCA has the same plates as in the 6SN7. 3 step ladder with two punch holes.
  
 Second and third pictures actually look like National Union 6F8G. Probably another re-badge. Round plates inside and out. They are suppose to be one of the best.
  
 The Tung-Sol (best of all) has round plates outside edge and square in the middle.


----------



## MIKELAP

Just tought i would share this little story with you guys it made me laugh.My mother inlaw she's 87 years old and she checks out  my tube collection  and gear ,she was telling me her husband use to fix T.V.'s and radio's and occasionnally she did also she says most of the time  it was easy it was always the same tube that screwed  up and she says to me ya the 5U4G tube i tell her ya ,i got those tubes lol imagine she remembered that tube name from like 50  years ago that's something, that's why for me having these things listening to them collecting them is so interesting, yup little historical works of art !


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Just tought i would share this little story with you guys it made me laugh.My mother inlaw she's 87 years old and she checks out  my tube collection  and gear ,she was telling me her husband use to fix T.V.'s and radio's and occasionnally she did also *she says most of the time  it was easy it was always the same tube that screwed  up and she says to me ya the 5U4G tube i tell her ya* ,i got those tubes lol imagine she remembered that tube name from like 50  years ago that's something, that's why for me having these things listening to them collecting them is so interesting, yup little historical works of art !


 
  
 Lol. I can see it. "Crappy 5U4G" and now we collect them (or variants). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah. I get goose bumps seeing mint condition NOS tubes in my hand.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

mikelap said:


> Just tought i would share this little story with you guys it made me laugh.My mother inlaw she's 87 years old and she checks out  my tube collection  and gear ,she was telling me her husband use to fix T.V.'s and radio's and occasionnally she did also she says most of the time  it was easy it was always the same tube that screwed  up and she says to me ya the 5U4G tube i tell her ya ,i got those tubes lol imagine she remembered that tube name from like 50  years ago that's something, that's why for me having these things listening to them collecting them is so interesting, yup little historical works of art !


 
  
 Ask her if she got a stash of WE's in the basement somewhere ?


----------



## Badas

Have you ever noticed that the other great thing that comes in glass bottles (beer) gets that last 5% of heavenly music out of the Woo? 

Certainly working tonight.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> Have you ever noticed that the other great thing that comes in glass bottles (beer) gets that last 5% of heavenly music out of the Woo?
> 
> Certainly working tonight.


 
  
 Yes it does but i'm more of a whiskey man, Cool tube adapters are they from woo, the wa22 is my next upgrade..


----------



## Krutsch

Well, quick update on the Siemens CCa driver tubes in the WA3. The sound is amaze-balls... seriously.
  
 Fantastic soundstage, separation, detail and tone. It's the total package and I would say coupled with the Western Electric 421a it's the end of the line for my amp. The Telefunken E188CC are in the same ball park, as well as the Siemens E288CC (rebranded as Philips), but the CCa tubes stand above, especially with respect to warmth and tone. For detail, I would hand the crown to the E188CC, but with less warmth.
  
 Unfortunately... one of the CCa tubes has a slight hum (I changed sockets and the hum follows the change); I'm trying to decide if I should care. With quiet music, it's audible - barely - but with anything heavy it disappears. I guess I am lucky, as this is the first driver tube to exhibit any noise artifacts.
  
 Crap... I suppose this means I need at least one more set... but the prices in these have recently skyrocketed into insanity, so I may go without.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Yes it does but i'm more of a whiskey man, Cool tube adapters are they from woo, the wa22 is my next upgrade..




No not from Woo. From fleabay. A really nice Chinese guy makes and sells them. Really well made. Brass and ceramic. 

The WA22 is a beautiful machine. I really like everything about it. Small form factor, Just the right tubes, Beaut sound and can run my headphones with ease.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

justin_time said:


> Have you tried the Woo with the Sylvania 6F8G or the Shuguang 50-Year Treasure CV-181 Z (preferably grade A+)?
> 
> You may not get the *silky smooth, feather-light treble of the GS-X--no other amp will give you that-*-but instead you will get the liquid, lush midrange that you will not get from the GS-X, a very favorable trade-off to my ears.  Plus you get a fuller bass, something that the HD800 sorely needs, without much sacrifice in the speed.






reeltime said:


> I've not tried the Sylvania 6F8G nor the Shugaung.  My previous tube was the EML Mesh (great sound) and the 596 (great sound, poor match for the EML).
> 
> *I'm a huge fan of the HD800.  It only sounds great once you give it an amp with clean high output. * With the WA6, it was a nice headphone, but unremarkable.  The Burson was only a decent match.  The WA5LE (or WA5), Dark Star, Liquid Fire, any of these great expensive amps take the HD800 to another level.  The only headphone I've heard that bests it, to my ear, is the Stax 009.  But you need to amp the hell out of it.  My opinion, of course.
> 
> ...





uguys have got to hear the Apex Teton with the HD800...


----------



## Justin_Time

dubstep girl said:


> uguys have got to hear the Apex Teton with the HD800...




I agree: great sound. The same is true of the Pinnacle.

Unfortunately, neither can drive the HE-6 or the AKG like the Woo WA5. They sound fine with the HE-6 at moderate volume, but do not have the punch needed at high volume, and I could not see myself spending $5,000 to $10,000 for an amp and still be short on power. As a matter of fact, it was the unfortunate pairing of the Pinnacle with the HE-6 that led to the erroneously poor assessment of the latter and its low appeal in its early days.

Before I eventually bought the Woo WA5, I settled for the Apex Peak//Volcano, which while not in the same class as the Teton at less than half of the price, sounded perfectly good and better than most SS amps with the HD800-using the Shuguang CV-181 tube--and drove the HE-6 with much more authority than the Teton.

If I had only the HD-800 to please, I would get the Teton. But with the HE-6 also in the mix, I am not sure that it is a good move.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

justin_time said:


> I agree: great sound. The same is true of the Pinnacle.
> 
> Unfortunately, neither can drive the HE-6 or the AKG like the Woo WA5. They sound fine with the HE-6 at moderate volume, but do not have the punch needed at high volume, and I could not see myself spending $5,000 to $10,000 for an amp and still be short on power. As a matter of fact, it was the unfortunate pairing of the Pinnacle with the HE-6 that led to the erroneously poor assessment of the latter and its low appeal in its early days.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1 TOTL amp specifically made to drive each flagship headphone is the ideal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The WA5 / HE-6 combo is great though, especially since WA5 can do speakers and other headphones really well too. Allnic HPA-5000 with HE-6 is incredible though too, I miss having it around, the WA5 is just missing that 2%, like 2% vs skim milk kinda thing.
  
 for HD 800 / HE-6 though, yeah tough to beat WA5, I've been using WA5 more for my speakers now though


----------



## Justin_Time

dubstep girl said:


> 1 TOTL amp specifically made to drive each flagship headphone is the ideal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Agreed!  I  wished certain reviewer knew this before slamming the HE-6 driven by the Pinnacle!
  
 I am not sure how much power the Woo WA5 delivers into 50 Ohms, but the HE-6 needs about 5 to 10 pristine watts.  Many tube amps and Class-A SS amps with 30-70 wpc into 8 ohms work just fine.
  
 Now back to one TOTL amp  for each Flagship:  great idea.  I am having trouble with execution though, unless I sell my house...Darn!


----------



## TonyNewman

dubstep girl said:


> 1 TOTL amp specifically made to drive each flagship headphone is the ideal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried driving the HD800 via the speaker taps on the WA5 via a HiFiMan adapter box (or similar)? For me, this beats the standard HPH output of the WA5 significantly. Dynamics improve noticeably.
  
 This doesn't work for the HE6 - the K1K output remains king, but I find that socket unusable for the HD800 due to the high noise floor (loud hum).
  
 If you have access to a bigger and better tube amp you can get better results. I have an 845 based tube amp that I was using to drive speakers before replacing it with an Accuphase power amp. I now use the speaker taps of this 45kg beast to drive headphones. 20W of SET power driving the HD800 is quite something.
  
 845 SET amp speaker taps >> WA5 speaker taps >>>>> WA5 HPH output
  

  
 For both the HD800 and HE6 I am finding the Simaudio 430HA superb.
 I slightly prefer it to the (WA5 K1K + HE6) and (845 SET + HD800) pairings mentioned above.
  

  
  
 My HeadFi buddy prefers the 845 SET driving the HD800 - it's a close call. Both take the HD800 a very long way.
  
 Do you know the sensitivity of the speakers you are driving with the WA5?
  
 I had an expensive journey along that path. My floor standers are 88dB sensitivity - roughly average for a speaker, I guess. The 8W of the WA5 speaker output was just inadequate - like a poorly amped HE6 - thin sound and weak bass. The 20W 845 SET amp did a much better job and I was happy enough with the sound, but the heat coming from the 845 SET amp was insane for regular use, so I went with a nice solid state power amp (Accuphase P-4200). Only after hooking up the SS power amp did I realise what I missing out on due to the inadequate power of the 845 SET amp. Dynamics and bass took another big step upwards and sound is now excellent. 20W isn't enough to deliver the best from 88dB speakers , despite what some tube-heads might suggest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy to have found a use for the huge and expensive 845 SET speaker amp - it drives headphones like the HD800 stunningly well via an adapter box.
  
 I have learned that speaker taps are not just for the HE6. Other headphones can benefit from the extra juice - highly recommended for the WA5 + HD800 combination.


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> Agreed!  I  wished certain reviewer knew this before slamming the HE-6 driven by the Pinnacle!
> 
> I am not sure how much power the Woo WA5 delivers into 50 Ohms, but the HE-6 needs about 5 to 10 pristine watts.  Many tube amps and Class-A SS amps with 30-70 wpc into 8 ohms work just fine.
> 
> Now back to one TOTL amp  for each Flagship:  great idea.  I am having trouble with execution though, unless I sell my house...Darn!


 
  
 Why Tyll didn't use a WA5 via the K1K port in that review is beyond me. Apex Pinnacle might be a wonderful amp (never heard it) but it does not pack the gear to drive the HE6 properly.
  
 WA5 delivers 8W into 50 Ohms. Simaudio 430HA does the same. I have both and they both drive the HE6 exceedingly well. I slightly prefer the 430HA on the HE6, but I love the better detail and dynamics that SS can deliver. Am yet to get my HE6 speaker tap harness so I can compare these two against my power amp speaker taps - that will be fun.
  
 I did sell my house and am sitting on a small stack of cash - have to restrain myself from blowing too much of it on audio gear. Answer might be to buy another house faster so I can have a mortgage again. Nothing like a mountain of debt to restrain spending


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Why Tyll didn't use a WA5 via the K1K port in that review is beyond me. Apex Pinnacle might be a wonderful amp (never heard it) but it does not pack the gear to drive the HE6 properly.
> 
> WA5 delivers 8W into 50 Ohms. Simaudio 430HA does the same. I have both and they both drive the HE6 exceedingly well. I slightly prefer the 430HA on the HE6, but I love the better detail and dynamics that SS can deliver. Am yet to get my HE6 speaker tap harness so I can compare these two against my power amp speaker taps - that will be fun.
> 
> I did sell my house and am sitting on a small stack of cash - have to restrain myself from blowing too much of it on audio gear. Answer might be to buy another house faster so I can have a mortgage again. Nothing like a mountain of debt to restrain spending :wink_face:




Buy another house quickly!

I just sold my Peak/Volcano last week so I cannot re-verify but last time I played the HE-6 with this amp using the Shuguang and Sylvania driver tubes, the sound was not only wonderful but loud, loud, loud, to ear splitting level. This combo packs a punch! Remember, it is a hybrid so power is not really a problem. The big, separate power supply helps a lot too.


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> Buy another house quickly!
> 
> I just sold my Peak/Volcano last week so I cannot re-verify but last time I played the HE-6 with this amp using the Shuguang and Sylvania driver tubes, the sound was not only wonderful but loud, loud, loud, to ear splitting level. This combo packs a punch! Remember, it is a hybrid so power is not really a problem. The big, separate power supply helps a lot too.


 

 I have made my last big audio purchase for a long time - onto the house next 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Took a while and a lot of $$$, but I now have setup that covers all the bases I wanted to cover:
 HE6 - 430HA for solid state, WA5 for tube.
 HD800 - 430HA for solid state, 845 SET for tube.
 Floorstanders - 430HA preamp, Accuphase P-4200 power amp.
 Auralic Vega DAC feeds all the above.
  
 All this craziness started with a WA6 just over 12 months ago


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I did sell my house and am sitting on a small stack of cash - have to restrain myself from blowing too much of it on audio gear. Answer might be to buy another house faster so I can have a mortgage again. Nothing like a mountain of debt to restrain spending :wink_face:




Buy anymore and you will need a warehouse not a home. 
seriously tho you are done. You have every best combo to drive all your gear (headphones and speakers)
I think the HE-6, Vega and 430 HA is my favourite. Just so great.



At the moment I am burning in some free tubes. The nice guys at Langrex sent me these sample Mullard power tubes. So far it is doing the basics nicely. No noise or hum. I will put some hours on them and then compare with others. Ignore the logos. I make my own logos for some tubes. The Mullard and Brimar logos on the bottom are fakes.


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> I have made my last big audio purchase for a long time - onto the house next
> 
> Took a while and a lot of $$$, but I now have setup that covers all the bases I wanted to cover:
> HE6 - 430HA for solid state, WA5 for tube.
> ...




I think you are in a better shape than I am.

I started with the HD-800 and Burson HA-160D a few years ago, a wretched combination of memory serves.

Over a dozen pairs of HP and more than 20 amps later, I am nowhere close to settling for a permanent set up.

At least I have the Woo WA5 and the GS-X Mk2 as my two primary amps.


----------



## TonyNewman

> ...At least I have the Woo WA5 and the GS-X Mk2 as my two primary amps.


 
  
 That's a nice amp pairing for SS and tube coverage.
  
 I thought about the GS-X Mk2 as my endgame SS HeadFi amp, but availability is an issue and there are reports that it struggles to drive the HE6 fully, so went with the 430HA.


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> That's a nice amp pairing for SS and tube coverage.
> 
> I thought about the GS-X Mk2 as my endgame SS HeadFi amp, but availability is an issue and there are reports that it struggles to drive the HE6 fully, so went with the 430HA.




Yes, with the GS-X Mk2, you need to crank up the DAC output level to the max, then everything works out.

With all SS amps, you also have an alternative: the Sophia Electric Magik Box. It makes SS amps' midrange warmer and more liquid--like tube's--and gives you +6 dB of gain to boot, just what you need for the HE-6. But at $2,500, it also gives you pause.

Cheers,

J-_T


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> With all SS amps, you also have an alternative: the Sophia Electric Magik Box. ...


 
  
 Interesting product - had no clue it existed. I already have a sunk cost in the WA5 and 845 SET, so my tube bases are covered.
  
 The SS gear I have has a velvety warmness to it that makes it very 'non transistor' to listen to. The Vega DAC plays a big part in that, also the Accuphase power amp and the 430HA (as preamp and headamp). Sound is very 'tube-like' with the extra detail and dynamics that SS can deliver.
  
 If I had the chance to do it all over again I would go SS all the way. Tubes are lovely, but the cost and hassle factor are a big disadvantage.


----------



## JohanGao

I Just receive my LCD3f, and trying it with Woo WA6SE, I am little confuse with problem that I found...
 I found that the sound vibrating for the left headphone chanel.. Firstly, I think the headphone have a trouble, but when I try to use the headphone with ALO national amp playing same song, the problem doesn't appear..
 Then I think that is the Woo that cause that.. I try to tighten the cable and tube all the way, but the problem not disappear, until I found this issue...
 When you insert your headphone jack, there is 3 step to make the jack completely inserted. So I found when I inserted the jack completely then the sound on the left driver of every headphone I use sound vibrating on recessed, but when I pull one step out the problem disappear, but the sound feel likes mono not stereo... 
  
 Could anyone know what happen with my WA6SE or there is something I miss when installing the amp or whatever?


----------



## bfreedma

johangao said:


> I Just receive my LCD3f, and trying it with Woo WA6SE, I am little confuse with problem that I found...
> I found that the sound vibrating for the left headphone chanel.. Firstly, I think the headphone have a trouble, but when I try to use the headphone with ALO national amp playing same song, the problem doesn't appear..
> Then I think that is the Woo that cause that.. I try to tighten the cable and tube all the way, but the problem not disappear, until I found this issue...
> When you insert your headphone jack, there is 3 step to make the jack completely inserted. So I found when I inserted the jack completely then the sound on the left driver of every headphone I use sound vibrating on recessed, but when I pull one step out the problem disappear, but the sound feel likes mono not stereo...
> ...




Is this happening on both the high and low jacks or just one of them? My 6SE's low output jack doesn't make a perfect connection with a few cables (most work fine). Wondering if you might be having the same problem. I really like the 6SE/LCD3 combo, so hope you get it working properly.


----------



## JohanGao

bfreedma said:


> Is this happening on both the high and low jacks or just one of them? My 6SE's low output jack doesn't make a perfect connection with a few cables (most work fine). Wondering if you might be having the same problem. I really like the 6SE/LCD3 combo, so hope you get it working properly.


 
 it's happening on both of low and high.... But it don't happen with all song, some songs just fine but some songs feel so disappointed... but when I change with other amp with same song the problem is gone...


----------



## JohanGao

May I know how long is the time we need to make the tube warm.... Before I hear the song in half of hour and more the sound still feel vibrating on low and recessed for the high... now After I finish watching film, just realize that I forget to turn off the amp (WA6SE) and I try to listen to the same song which have a problem before, and the problem just vanish... Now it sound like what it should sound....


----------



## kokushu

Just got my elrog 300b.  So with the elrog 300b/ tung sol 6f8g/ and WE 422a I should be done with tube upgrade right?  Now I just wait till the Hifiman he 1000 to come out.


----------



## Khragon

Congrats... unfortunately my Elrog won't be here until Monday... nice setup.  I'm going to have similar.  How is the HD800 sounds?


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> Just got my elrog 300b.  So with the elrog 300b/ tung sol 6f8g/ and WE 422a I should be done with tube upgrade right?  Now I just wait till the Hifiman he 1000 to come out.


 
  
 Wow - that is some serious glass. How's the sound?


----------



## bfreedma

johangao said:


> bfreedma said:
> 
> 
> > Is this happening on both the high and low jacks or just one of them? My 6SE's low output jack doesn't make a perfect connection with a few cables (most work fine). Wondering if you might be having the same problem. I really like the 6SE/LCD3 combo, so hope you get it working properly.
> ...




If you switch the driver tubes, does the problem follow the tube or stay in the left side of your headphones? 

Tubes do need a little time to warm up but I wouldn't expect to have audible issue after 15-30 minutes.


----------



## JohanGao

bfreedma said:


> If you switch the driver tubes, does the problem follow the tube or stay in the left side of your headphones?
> 
> Tubes do need a little time to warm up but I wouldn't expect to have audible issue after 15-30 minutes.


 
  
 Never try to switch the driver tube before, but this morning I try to listen to the same song and the problem don't come again.. but I warm up the amp before for about hour and leave it when I watching movie... Don't know how it sound when the amp just warm up for about 15 or 30 minute.. Would try this night


----------



## kokushu

Is your music too dark? The Elrog 300b could brighten up your day.  Seriously the elrog is one bright tube compare to all the other 300b I have so far.  Must be the tungsten.


----------



## Khragon

haha... bright as in visually.. yes that's welcomed... how's the sound???!!!


----------



## kokushu

Sorry khragon I am still in the burn in process so I don't want to said anything definite yet.  The only thing I could said is at this point I am not going back to EML 300b mesh.  I like listening to the elrog more right now but I can't pinpoint on all the fine reason yet.  This almost want me to try the takatsuki 300b to see what the difference.  Anybody want to make a test trade?


----------



## Khragon

no biggie, I would do the same.. enjoy.


----------



## musicman59

kokushu said:


> Just got my elrog 300b.  So with the elrog 300b/ tung sol 6f8g/ and WE 422a I should be done with tube upgrade right?  Now I just wait till the Hifiman he 1000 to come out.


 
 My Elrogs won't be here until tomorrow but I will have the same tube complement in my WA5-LE.


----------



## kokushu

musicman59 said:


> My Elrogs won't be here until tomorrow but I will have the same tube complement in my WA5-LE.


 
  
 Nice, when you get the chance maybe you could share your opinion and see if we are hearing the same thing.


----------



## kokushu

Mind is absolutely blown right now.  I don't know if its the elrog or the setup as a whole but wow.  I never thought the woo audio 5 could be like this.  The sound I am hearing right now is what I imagine the Eddie Current 445 is like.  In which I was jealous off a little bit because from what people describe that was what I am looking for.  Now I might not have to be so jealous of it anymore.  
  
 The smooth treble and the openness.  I was listening to One from Ed Sheeran and there a moment where I was like " holy #%& did I just hear what I just hear".  There are part of some songs where I brace for the hit of treble but not anymore it come very smoothly.  All of this and it hadn't even fully burn in yet.  How could the takatsuki 300b improve on this?


----------



## Khragon

kokushu said:


> ...There are part of some songs where I brace for the hit of treble but not anymore it come very smoothly.  All of this and it hadn't even fully burn in yet.  How could the takatsuki 300b improve on this?




Glad to hear this, treble performance was what I worry about... Nice, can't wait to get mine.


----------



## itchy290

Hi, wasn't totally sure where to ask this, so I figured here might be good rather than starting a new thread since I am a newb to your forums (long time lurker though). I have a WA3 that I got a couple weeks ago and I am running Sennheiser HD600s on it. I probably have <20 hours of listening on it so far. The sound is amazing, even during its problem. There is an occasional hum, sometimes it hums continuously, sometimes it comes and goes, and other times it doesn't at all. It is always in the right channel, I tried swapping the driver tubes and nothing changed. It is fairly low in pitch and somewhat quiet, I don't notice it when music is playing. Usually when I touch or tap gently on the amp the hum goes away temporarily. Volume does not effect the hum. Sometimes it will come back pretty quick or stay quiet the rest of the night. Does anyone have any ideas about what is going on?


----------



## GrindingThud

Finicky power tube....it may go away or it may get worse. Changing the tube to a good one will fix that.



itchy290 said:


> Hi, wasn't totally sure where to ask this, so I figured here might be good rather than starting a new thread since I am a newb to your forums (long time lurker though). I have a WA3 that I got a couple weeks ago and I am running Sennheiser HD600s on it. I probably have <20 hours of listening on it so far. The sound is amazing, even during its problem. There is an occasional hum, sometimes it hums continuously, sometimes it comes and goes, and other times it doesn't at all. It is always in the right channel, I tried swapping the driver tubes and nothing changed. It is fairly low in pitch and somewhat quiet, I don't notice it when music is playing. Usually when I touch or tap gently on the amp the hum goes away temporarily. Volume does not effect the hum. Sometimes it will come back pretty quick or stay quiet the rest of the night. Does anyone have any ideas about what is going on?


----------



## itchy290

grindingthud said:


> Finicky power tube....it may go away or it may get worse. Changing the tube to a good one will fix that.


 

 Thank you!


----------



## Krutsch

grindingthud said:


> Finicky power tube....it may go away or it may get worse. Changing the tube to a good one will fix that.


 
  
 +1 ... yes, you should try that first.
  
 Another cause may be RFI from Wi-Fi radios in your other devices (e.g. your laptop or a close-by WAP). I was experiencing humming that would "come and go" until I realized the sound was timed with network activity. Just something else to consider.


----------



## joseph69

@Grinding Thud
  A cell phone too.


----------



## Khragon

Got my Elrogs!
  
 Burning in now..
 Initial impression at 2 hours burn in: treble sounded a bit harsh to me with WE422A & TS 6F8G, still is a tad smoother than SERPs which is fully burned in.
  

  
 No increased in radiation with the thoriated tungsten filaments, that's good!


----------



## kokushu

Give it time I guess.  Since at first I wasn't so sure what to make of it.  I also have the bmc puredac so I don't know what the modi would do to it.


----------



## Khragon

Yeah got to get a new DAC.. just not sure what I want... not a bad problem to have I guess.
 Happy to report that the Elrogs are starting to smooth out..


----------



## bpcans

khragon said:


> Yeah got to get a new DAC.. just not sure what I want... not a bad problem to have I guess.
> Happy to report that the Elrogs are starting to smooth out..


Check out the soon to be released Chord 2Qute DAC.


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> Got my Elrogs!
> 
> Burning in now..
> Initial impression at 2 hours burn in: treble sounded a bit harsh to me with WE422A & TS 6F8G, still is a tad smoother than SERPs which is fully burned in.
> ...


 
 I received mine yesterday afternoon but it is so cold outside that I decided to open the box and let them sit overnight to get them up to room temperature to avoid any potential issues. Will start burning them tonight.


----------



## musicman59

Last night after about 5 hours of burning in I did s quick listen of the Elrogs. The transparency and detail of the sound is amazing. The soundstage seems bigger and more 3 d BUT where is the bass?
  
 I notice there is some upper bass but not much of the deep controlled bass. Will it come out after more burn in?


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> Last night after about 5 hours of burning in I did s quick listen of the Elrogs. The transparency and detail of the sound is amazing. The soundstage seems bigger and more 3 d BUT where is the bass?
> 
> I notice there is some upper bass but not much of the deep controlled bass. Will it come out after more burn in?


 
  
 Just a suggestion - 5 hours is waaaaay too early to making any judgements on a tube. Give it 50 hours, or better 150 hours, to settle down and get close to target.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> Just a suggestion - 5 hours is waaaaay too early to making any judgements on a tube. Give it 50 hours, or better 150 hours, to settle down and get close to target.


 
 I know is way too early for any judgement. I only posted basically to see if current owners had the same experience and have some input regarding the potential evolution of the sound.


----------



## Khragon

I'm using HD800, my only remaining HP atm.  I don't have any problem with bass, I thought it was pretty fulfilling, I'm not a bass head to begin with, so maybe it's that.  It has gotten quite a bit smoother on the female high pitch voice (upper mid?) and treble, still burning in...


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> I'm using HD800, my only remaining HP atm.  I don't have any problem with bass, I thought it was pretty fulfilling, I'm not a bass head to begin with, so maybe it's that.  It has gotten quite a bit smoother on the female high pitch voice (upper mid?) and treble, still burning in...


 
 I was listening with my McIntosh MHP1000. I am not a bass head either but I noticed a lot less low extension compared to my EML 300B Mesh. EAT and AVVT (less than 15 hours on these) tubes.


----------



## kokushu

I would agree that the elrog bass is lighter than the eml 300b mesh but I think the extension is still there just the quantity is not the same.  This is the sound I like thought.  I would trade away some bass for better transparency and sound stage.  I like this kind of sound better; so if you love your bass I could see you might not like the elrog as much.  The mid is still splendid thought.  Once again these are not fully burn in so thing could still slightly change.  Either way I love what it sound right now over the other 300b.


----------



## Porteroso

Now I really want to find squirrel and the other guy's posts, I am near certain that they commented on the elrog v takatsuki (or however it is spelled) in terms of bass.


----------



## isquirrel

My Elrog's have 250 hours on them now and I have not detected any changes since 175/200 hours.
  
 The best way to describe the Elrog sound is that they have an energising forward presentation that has lovely tonality. The end result is that they draw you into the music. driver tube matching and rectifiers are important. 
  
 Depending on the music. I use either the Mullard Metal base GZ34, it has great speed and suits EDM, rock and further enhances the Elrog's dynamic nature or the Takatsuki 274B's. Most of the time I use the Takatsuki 274B's which now have 370 hours on them.
  
 I have tried just about combination of driver tube, and I believe this is the area where people are running into trouble. If you pair the Elrog's with a Sylvannia, Raytheon or any bright or lighter sounding tubes it will exacerbate the slightly forward character of the Elrog's which may make you think that they are a little lean in the bass. Pair them with good RCA's (preferably early grey glass) Brimars or the best Tung Sol RP's. (I could write a whole page just on these tubes and their varieties) and its a different proposition. The sound will be richer and more euphonic. If that's your preference.
  
 Do they have a huge bottom end, no, not in the same manner as the SERP's do. Does it improve with burn in yes, you need to be at least past the 80-100 hour mark before your hearing the tubes at their best.
  
 The manufacturer sent me the detailed operating specs of the tubes which I passed onto Jack Woo to make sure the tubes were able to operate without concern in Woo amps, he has checked them and reports that they are fine.


----------



## Khragon

isquirrel said:


> The manufacturer sent me the detailed operating specs of the tubes which I passed onto Jack Woo to make sure the tubes were able to operate without concern in Woo amps, he has checked them and reports that they are fine.


 
 I did the same with question asked specifically for WA5, and all is good.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ...Do they have a huge bottom end, no, not in the same manner as the SERP's do....


 
  
 I am struggling with the idea of going with the Elrogs or not. I already have the SERPs and like them a lot in my WA5.
  
 I know this is a hard question to answer, but how much more do you get with the Elrogs compared to the SERPs?
  
 Appreciate any light you can shed on this.


----------



## kokushu

From what I read Tony that the SERP seem to be the one to go for if you like stronger bass.  I never heard it so I can't give the definite answer.  The Elrog seem to paint a very clear picture to me.  I don't know how the SERP does clarity and the technical stuff.  

Also my driver tube and rect tube might make this sound from other who has the elrog 300b.  I have the tung sol 6f8g and everybody said it the same as 6sn7 tung sol so I am assuming that it does the same thing; but I also have the WE 422a and everybody else have the Mullard Metal Base instead.


----------



## isquirrel

Tony,
  
 The Elrog's are a very different sound to any other 300B, they illuminate the music from within, my partner, they are her favourite tube. She feels that they draw her more deeply into the emotion and performance of the music than any other tube including the Takatsuki's.
  
 But then after the Takatsuki's have been in for a few days she falls in love with them.....
  
 I cannot say which is the better tube, they both have their strengths:
  
 The Elrog's really breath life into the music, in some systems, different headphones, drivers & rectifiers I could imagine they could sound a little to revealing.
  
 The Takatsuki's have a beautiful lush airy presentation, they sound every bit as good but with a more traditional 300B presentation.
  
 The best of both worlds is to have both. I generally spend a week listening to one and then swap, the Takatsuki's now have 150 hours on them. 
  
 When its appropriate both tubes produce good bass, the SERP's were on the dark side of neutral & perhaps that helped to emphasise the lower end. In the end I went another way in my system. However if you love your bass then maybe their the best choice for you.
  
 It all comes down to personal preference and your musical tastes. IMHO the Takatsuki's and the Elrog's are the cream of the 300B's.
  
 They both handily surpass the golden reference, the WE300B's in most area's and that says a lot.
  
 Matt has both when his amps are finally run in, he will no doubt have a different perspective. Our musical tastes couldn't be more different and being almost fifty I am quite sure my hearing is not as good as his


----------



## Fririce0003

Hahaha, working in the construction industry probably hasn't helped my hearing too much... I do wear earplugs all the time though :S
Impressions may be a while off, up to 130 hours on my amps out of 5-600 for burn in. Then another 150-200 for each tube set. I'll be sure to post my impressions when that's all done though  Elrog, Takatsuki, SERP, KR, and a host of drivers and rectifiers.


----------



## TonyNewman

Thank you very much for that comparison - very helpful


----------



## musicman59

Does anybody know of a good source for a pair of Mullard GZ34 Metal Base?


----------



## isquirrel

musicman59 said:


> Does anybody know of a good source for a pair of Mullard GZ34 Metal Base?


 

 Very hard to find and getting harder, best to either contact a good vintage tube agent or they occasionally pop up on eBay. The good news is they last forever so its safer buying these than most other tubes. There are some printed with Philips labels on them, that's okay, same tube and can be a little cheaper. 
  
 I have attached some photos with the labelling, the production date stamp is on the base, 56H means 1956 Holland, does not matter if they are not matched pairs - though its ideal. I have bought singles and also matched pairs. They all the same date stamp, no difference in SQ.
  
 There os one guy I know of who bought a pallet of these years ago, and usually sells one or two a month on eBay - they are new, he charges US $800 each.
  
 Hope that helps in your search.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Very hard to find and getting harder, best to either contact a good vintage tube agent or they occasionally pop up on eBay. The good news is they last forever so its safer buying these than most other tubes. There are some printed with Philips labels on them, that's okay, same tube and can be a little cheaper.
> 
> I have attached some photos with the labelling, the production date stamp is on the base, 56H means 1956 Holland, does not matter if they are not matched pairs - though its ideal. I have bought singles and also matched pairs. They all the same date stamp, no difference in SQ.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Apologies for jumping the subject - any comments you care to make regarding Takatsuki(sp?) 274B vs the GZ34 metal base?


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Apologies for jumping the subject - any comments you care to make regarding Takatsuki(sp?) 274B vs the GZ34 metal base?


 

 Mostly listening to the Takatsuki 274B ATM. Just sourced some WE274B's, waiting on them to arrive.
  
 GZ34 is cooler, different solid bass, good for electronic etc, has a lovely euphonic quality.
  
 Takatsuki does the mid range so well, warmer, rhythmic does vocals, singer songwriter material beautifully, suits the T 300B's perfectly (as you would expect)
  
 Both work well with the Elrog's as well.
  
 GZ34 + Elrog for speed, immediacy
 Takatsuki combo for lush, vocal
  
 Both are rich and musical. I will mix and match today as I received a new toy this week (Mac Pro) so have some coding and photoshop work to catch up on and planned to spend the day messing with different tube combos while working (playing with new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## TonyNewman

Thank you


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Thank you


 

 No problem Tony,
  
 Warming them up for you now, haven't used them in a while so will have to give them a few hours to wake up


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> No problem Tony,
> 
> Warming them up for you now, haven't used them in a while so will have to give them a few hours to wake up


 
  
 Nice! I really like the looks of the WA234. Wonderful design.
  
 I have pulled the trigger on a pair of Elrog 300Bs - should them in a couple of weeks. My final tube setup in the WA5 will be something like this: Brimar rectifiers / NU 6F8G drivers / Elrog 300Bs (with the SERPs handy for when I want to go a bit darker). Not quite at the GZ34 / Takatsuki 274B + TS BGRP level, but close.
  
 The current pricing on TS BGRPs is just nuts


----------



## bpcans

I've got this Sophia Electric Princess rectifier tube sitting unused that I bought with my WA6, and I was wondering if there's a complimentary set of driver tubes that actually work well with the S/P in the WA6?


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> I've got this Sophia Electric Princess rectifier tube sitting unused that I bought with my WA6, and I was wondering if there's a complimentary set of driver tubes that actually work well with the S/P in the WA6?


 
 I enjoy the SP from time to time with the 6SN7's for a change…otherwise you can try the 6DE7's and hear if you like the combo.
 You must be spoiled…I wonder why???


----------



## Porteroso

What people will generally tell you about the WA6 is to first, get the 6SN7 adapters. Once you have those, you have access to a ton of great tubes. Some of us also have 6F8G adapters, which are just cheaper 6SN7, but you still need both sets of adapters for those. Writing this post made me put my Sophia back in, and at first, I was using the RCA grey glass, and it was just too murky. Popped back in my new pair of National Union VT-99, and man, this is actually pretty good. Such a fun sound to listen to. Reasonably detailed, very extended, and while the Sophia does lack the clarity, separation (not soundstage), and the dynamic of the Brimar 5Z4G (you will want to pick up a few of these from Langrex), the NU really is a great tube with the Sophia.
  
 I posted earlier about TS v NU, and that the NU added a sort of edge to the music. I hadn't considered its pairing with the Sophia. It really makes the Sophia sound much less murky/muddled down low, and up high, you get a very musical presentation. This is the first combination where I've found the Sophia really quite good. I will listen to this for a while, I think.
  
 Still, pick up at least 1 Brimar. And if you are sticking with stock tubes, the brand does not matter so much for the 6DE7, I found, but getting fat bottles does. If you try to experiment with brands, then you just need to get the 6SN7 adapters, as the best of the 6SN7/6F8G just blows the 6DE7 away.


----------



## Angelbelow

Wondering if anyone has the following 300bs: psvanes hifi series, Treasure markI or mark II.


----------



## boulos

Hi isquirrel,
 Thank you very much for the great comparison.  You mentioned earlier that the Elrogs have 250 hours on them, while the Takatsuki's have 150 hours.  Are you noticing any more changes in the Takatsuki's as you use them more? I'd be very interested to hear your opinion once both pairs have reached 300 hours.
 Thanks!


----------



## Khragon

Anyone know if Woo still respond to their email?
 I emailed Jack a number of times to check on a package I sent him and not getting and response.


----------



## isquirrel

Jack's usually pretty prompt unless he's on the road.


----------



## joseph69

Was that Jack in the video about the Audeze heist?
 If so, maybe he's been busy trying to help out with the situation?


----------



## Krutsch

joseph69 said:


> Was that Jack in the video about the Audeze heist?
> If so, maybe he's been busy trying to help out with the situation?


 

 I have this picture in my head of Jack carrying a sort-of Ghostbusters plasma rifle made from milled aluminum, sprouting tubes everywhere, sneaking around looking for the thieves.


----------



## joseph69

krutsch said:


> I have this picture in my head of Jack carrying a sort-of Ghostbusters plasma rifle made from milled aluminum, sprouting tubes everywhere, sneaking around looking for the thieves.


 






 Was that him, because the heading on the video said "Woo Audio"?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

This is Jack:
  

  
 Video wasn't Jack.


----------



## joseph69

sko0bydoo said:


> This is Jack:
> Video wasn't Jack.


 
 Thanks Scoob!


----------



## Khragon

Strange, I tried to email him, so far once a week, it's been 3 weeks and he hasn't got back to me yet.
 It would be nice for him to acknowledge that he receive the package.
  
 Let me email him again.
 *Edit* Jack responded...all is good.
  
 On other notes, I got the HE headphone adapter and didn't think it's better than the HPH out.  I thought the adapter muddied up the sound, bass did increased, but sound stage collapsed a bit, symbal didn't sound as natural with the adapter.  I prefer the HPH out better.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> .... On other notes, I got the HE headphone adapter and didn't think it's better than the HPH out.  I thought the adapter muddied up the sound, bass did increased, but sound stage collapsed a bit, symbal didn't sound as natural with the adapter.  I prefer the HPH out better.


 
  
 It is interesting how folks hear things differently. I found the adapter box a much better experience with the HD800 than the HPH output, as did a fellow headfier in A/B testing. I didn't notice any muddiness or reduction in sound stage - just the opposite to my ears.
  
 I will A/B test again this weekend. Could be that I got it wrong the first time, or more likely I am hearing the result differently.


----------



## Khragon

Yeah what wonderful hobby we're in, I'll spend more time with it too.. I did enjoy the adapter though, it did calm some of the harshness of the HD800.


----------



## Krutsch

khragon said:


> Yeah what wonderful hobby we're in, I'll spend more time with it too.. I did enjoy the adapter though, it did calm some of the harshness of the HD800.


 
  
 Can you post a link to the specific speaker-out adapter box you are using? Thanks, in advance.


----------



## Khragon

krutsch said:


> Can you post a link to the specific speaker-out adapter box you are using? Thanks, in advance.


 
 Here you go, HiFiMAN HE-Adapter:
 http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104


----------



## billerb1

If you're looking for Tung Sol 5998's I've decided to sell my last remaining pair.  They were bought NOS and matched... have about 250 or so hours on them now.  No tube noise, microphonics or any BS.  Dead quiet.  $199 + $12 USPS Priority shipping to CONUS only.  I'll eat the Paypal fee.  PM me.


 *************************** S O L D ************************


----------



## kokushu

So is everybody enjoying their elrog?


----------



## Khragon

I'm still burning them in, enjoying them now, I plan to spend sometime this weekend comparing them to SERPs.
 Going from memory SERPs is a bit more impactful but less smooth, different sound signature, so it's going to be down to personal preferences.


----------



## Fririce0003

Got the amps up to 200 hours burn in and just chucked the Takatsuki's and TSRP in. I'll reserve proper impressions until the tubes are at 200 hours but they're much better than stock. Now it's off to bed, got lost in the music far too much. Have to be up for work in less than 2 hours :S


----------



## bpcans

khragon said:


> I'm still burning them in, enjoying them now, I plan to spend sometime this weekend comparing them to SERPs.
> Going from memory SERPs is a bit more impactful but less smooth, different sound signature, so it's going to be down to personal preferences.


Your definitely right about it coming down to personal preference. For me was my amp size, .5w Woo WA6, source material, mine is jazz, opera, and blues rock which is mostly FLAC and apple lossless. And my headphones which are Grado RS1i's that some people find a bit schreeechy on the high end, and your DAC.


----------



## Krutsch

kokushu said:


> So is everybody enjoying their elrog?


 
  
 I don't have any Elrog (or even a compatible amp), so I am feeling left out... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am, however, enjoying my Western Electrics and Tellys


----------



## Justin_Time

krutsch said:


> I don't have any Elrog (or even a compatible amp), so I am feeling left out...
> 
> I am, however, enjoying my Western Electrics and Tellys




Any set of tubes will warm you up in these cold Minnesota winter's days just as well as those Elrogs.

It's only in the 30s and 40s in Houston but I had both the WA5 and Pass Aleph Class A fired up for a very warm and cozy evening.


----------



## Justin_Time

kokushu said:


> So is everybody enjoying their elrog?




Elrog, rog around the clog...


----------



## TonyNewman

I have blown 2 capacitors in my WA5. Curious if anyone else has had a similar experience.
  
 You can see the two little devils in the picture below.


----------



## Badas

^

Hate seeing broken Woo's. I'm sorry for you Tony.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Hate seeing broken Woo's. I'm sorry for you Tony.


 
  
 Woos are simple devices - so the repair shouldn't be a drama. Replace the caps and plow on


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> Woos are simple devices - so the repair shouldn't be a drama. Replace the caps and plow on


 
 On "simple devices" note, anyone have schematic for the WA5?  I'm curious how the rectifier are used? what if we have slightly mismatch rectifier, would that change the output DC readings?  or Does is there some sort of regulating/balancing circuit?


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Woos are simple devices - so the repair shouldn't be a drama. Replace the caps and plow on


 
  
 How did it happen? How did you notice?


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> How did it happen? How did you notice?


 
  
 I was running the amp - nothing unusual. Brimars + 6F8Gs + SERPs.
  
 Amp made a loud POP and smoke starting pouring out from the grill on the bottom of the unit. I switched it off immediately and waited for it to cool down and inspect it for damage.
  
 Two blown capacitors. Could be worse.


----------



## Khragon

Geez.. must be scary when that happened.


----------



## fhuang

tonynewman said:


> I was running the amp - nothing unusual. Brimars + 6F8Gs + SERPs.
> 
> Amp made a loud POP and smoke starting pouring out from the grill on the bottom of the unit. I switched it off immediately and waited for it to cool down and inspect it for damage.
> 
> Two blown capacitors. Could be worse.


 
  
  
 the ears and yourself ok?


----------



## TonyNewman

fhuang said:


> the ears and yourself ok?


 

 Absolutely - thanks for asking. I didn't have the headphones on my head at the time


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> I have blown 2 capacitors in my WA5. Curious if anyone else has had a similar experience.
> 
> You can see the two little devils in the picture below.


 

 Wow... glad to hear you didn't have cans on at the time and that your ears are OK. I assume this is going back to Woo for repair.
  
 Please post-back and let us know what may have been root cause; I am very curious to hear what blew two caps at the same time.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Wow... glad to hear you didn't have cans on at the time and that your ears are OK. I assume this is going back to Woo for repair.
> 
> Please post-back and let us know what may have been root cause; I am very curious to hear what blew two caps at the same time.


 
  
 I live in Auckland, New Zealand, so sending a 70+lb amp to New York isn't practical. To send even the amp section at 30+lb isn't going to happen.
  
 I am chasing some local options to repair the amp. The good thing about Woo amps is that they are very simple electronically, so I am hoping that replacing the caps isn't going to be a big drama. Might even think about getting all the caps upgraded if that is an option.
  
 I suspect that I blew the first cap (the top one in the picture) some months ago while using a bad tube that blew rather spectacularly, and I think it took out the first capacitor. I didn't realise the cap was damaged and continued to use the amp until the second, and bigger, blow out. I don't know if the first cap blowing led to the second cap blowing, but it seems reasonable to think they might be related.
  
 It's moments like this that make me want to go solid state. None of this sort of carry on from my Taurus Mk2 or Simaudio 430HA


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> I am chasing some local options to repair the amp. The good thing about Woo amps is that they are very simple electronically, so I am hoping that replacing the caps isn't going to be a big drama. *Might even think about getting all the caps upgraded if that is an option.*
> 
> It's moments like this that make me want to go solid state. None of this sort of carry on from my Taurus Mk2 or Simaudio 430HA


 
  
 I do consulting work for a H/W design company (on the S/W side) and I've been seriously considering taking my WA3 in and asking one of the EEs to super-size me with some upgraded caps, et al. I've read through some of the WA3 upgrade thread (from a few years ago); why not buy some parts and see what happens? Good luck with your upgrade; I have to imagine using top-shelf caps would make a noticeable difference, but I would expect the WA5 to be so equipped out-of-the box, as opposed to the low-end WA3.
  
 For SS, my back-up is an NAD D 1050 which, as my girlfriend points out, is not as satisfying.


----------



## Khragon

krutsch said:


> I have to imagine using top-shelf caps would make a noticeable difference, but I would expect the WA5 to be so equipped out-of-the box, as opposed to the low-end WA3.


 
 I did asked Jack about the baseline WA5 before purchasing and he mentioned that Woo already used audiophile grade parts in the baseline model.
  
 As for the repair, I wonder if it feasible for Woo to send you just that PCB as replacement? look like it soldered in place though, so may not be as easy as it sounds.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> I do consulting work for a H/W design company (on the S/W side) and I've been seriously considering taking my WA3 in and asking one of the EEs to super-size me with some upgraded caps, et al. I've read through some of the WA3 upgrade thread (from a few years ago); why not buy some parts and see what happens? Good luck with your upgrade; I have to imagine using top-shelf caps would make a noticeable difference, but I would expect the WA5 to be so equipped out-of-the box, as opposed to the low-end WA3.
> 
> For SS, my back-up is an NAD D 1050 which, as my girlfriend points out, is not as satisfying.


 
  
 Solid state can be a warm and engaging sound. Perhaps not _*quite *_as enthralling as a good tube amp, but perhaps a lot closer than many folks think.
  
 I think it is all about the equipment selection. Pairing a warmish and highly musical DAC (Auralic Vega) with a high quality headamp that is a little on the warm side (Simaudio 430HA or Taurus MK2) produces a sound that is WONDERFUL. In fact, I had to seriously upgrade the driver tubes on my WA5 just so it would be competitive with my solid state amp.
  
 If I had to do it all over again, I would probably skip tubes altogether. I love the tube sound, but it doesn't stack up in a cost-benefit analysis against SS. For my WA5 SQ to be competitive with my 430HA SQ I have to put close to top tier tubes in it. That is expensive and takes the WA5 + tube costs significantly above the 430HA. Then there is the hassle of tube warm up, tube burn in and tubes blowing ... etc.
  
 I switch my 430HA on and 2 seconds later I have great music. I like that a lot.


----------



## Khragon

Yeah, but does it glow?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> ... As for the repair, I wonder if it feasible for Woo to send you just that PCB as replacement? look like it soldered in place though, so may not be as easy as it sounds.


 
  
 That's a good idea - thanks. If the local repair option becomes problematic I will chase that possibility up with the Woo folks.


----------



## Krutsch

khragon said:


> Yeah, but does it glow?


 

 Ha Ha... Good one


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Yeah, but does it glow?


 
  





 You got me there, but that is really my point. It is an emotional, gut level attraction that keeps me in the tube game.
  
 From a logical cost-benefit + practicality point of view there is really only one choice for me - SS.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Solid state can be a warm and engaging sound. Perhaps not _*quite *_as enthralling as a good tube amp, but perhaps a lot closer than many folks think.


 
  
 Peace... I am not arguing with that, at all. I was commenting more on my particular SS amp. I'm sure the SimAudio component is incredible.
  
 For me, I like my NAD w/ Grado for some music. But plugging in the HD-650s is sort-of sad sounding, after being spoiled by my Rega + WA3 rig.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> ...
> For me, I like my NAD w/ Grado for some music. But plugging in the HD-650s is sort-of sad sounding, after being spoiled by my Rega + WA3 rig.


 
  
 The perfect solution is to have a high end tube amp _*and *_a high end SS amp - both of which produce excellent, but different, SQ.
  
 I was on track to achieve this, but then my WA5 had an internal capacitor hemorrhage ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EDIT - my comments were a general tube vs SS spiel - nothing directed at you and your situation - apologies if I came across any different


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Yeah, but does it glow?




 You could just buy a Lava lamp.


----------



## Stereolab42

I would take this as an opportunity to learn how to solder... get a good kit and some busted parts and practice for a few days... then get some replacement caps, and go nuts on the WA5. It's not like you're trying to micro-solder traces, these are giant caps on an old-school circuit board.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> I would take this as an opportunity to learn how to solder... get a good kit and some busted parts and practice for a few days... then get some replacement caps, and go nuts on the WA5. It's not like you're trying to micro-solder traces, these are giant caps on an old-school circuit board.


 
  
 If I wasn't such a klutz at that sort of thing I would be tempted, but I am, and the WA5 is too important to me to take the risk. So I am going to pay for someone who knows what they are doing (I hope) to replace the caps.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> The perfect solution is to have a high end tube amp _*and *_a high end SS amp - both of which produce excellent, but different, SQ.
> 
> I was on track to achieve this, but then my WA5 had an internal capacitor hemorrhage ...
> 
> ...


 
 I never thought that was your intention for even a second... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... I have a daughter in sports and music, which are tentacles constantly reaching into my wallet.
  
 I am all-over having a high-end SS amp, but my next 2 audiophoolery purchases are: Beyer T1 or HD-800 for the WA3 (still pondering after my last meet...) and speakers for the 2-channel system in the living room (after a lot of auditioning, likely Spendor S3/5R2). After my upgrade spree at my desk, my living room stereo has fallen far behind on the transducer front and it's getting hard to enjoy (I can't believe I just typed that, but it's true).


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Solid state can be a warm and engaging sound. Perhaps not _*quite*_ as enthralling as a good tube amp, but perhaps a lot closer than many folks think.
> 
> I think it is all about the equipment selection. Pairing a warmish and highly musical DAC (Auralic Vega) with a high quality headamp that is a little on the warm side (Simaudio 430HA or Taurus MK2) produces a sound that is WONDERFUL. In fact, I had to seriously upgrade the driver tubes on my WA5 just so it would be competitive with my solid state amp.
> 
> ...




Tony,

Some of the Class-A SS amps are nearly as much trouble as tube amps.

My Pass Aleph amps do not sound any good until they are nice and hot, may be not hot enough to fry an egg but too hot to touch for sure. That usually takes at least 30 minutes, not very different from tubes. Also, it is highly inefficient, meaning to produce say 10 watts of music, they need at least 100 watts of power consumption--heck, I would not be surprised if it consumes that much electricity on idle. Now you know where all that heat is coming from. The amp is surrounded on all four sides by heat-sink fins. Heck, it is mostly a heat sink with a few small transistors inside. My friends call them the porcupines 'cause of the sharp fins sticking out and all that heat, both of which can cause serious pain if touched inappropriately. And of course the huge catalytic capacitors--think about the caps that blew up In the Woo and multiply the size by 10--typically dry out in 15 years or so, maybe sooner in all that heat, and must be replaced to prevent sonic degradation, transformer humming and catastrophic failures.

Oh I agree, tubes amps require greater care. All I am saying is that if you want the ultimate sound of Class-A SS amps, you have to put up with a lot too. We are enjoying springtime here in Houston so I have a month or two left to enjoy both my Woo WA5 and Pass Alephs. One of them must be put away in summer as my AC cannot keep up with both amps running and also the Houston summer heat. Ah, the joy of Audio...


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> ...
> Oh I agree, tubes amps require greater care. All I am saying is that if you want the ultimate sound of Class-A SS amps, you have to put up with a lot too. We are enjoying springtime here in Houston so I have a month or two left to enjoy both my Woo WA5 and Pass Alephs. One of them must be put away in summer as my AC cannot keep up with both running and the Houston summer heat. Ah, the joy of Audio...


 
  
 I know exactly where you are coming from on the heat front - I had my fill of heat and hassle with an 845 SET amp. That thing chucked out 200+W of heat continuously. You could BBQ your face by getting too close to the 845 tubes when it was fully "warmed up". Just brutal in the summer - running the AC was a must.
  
 My SS choice was partly influenced by this. I use a Simaudio 430HA as SS preamp and headamp. This unit uses some form of proprietary magic from Simaudio to produce class A sound without the class A heat. It sounds superb and gets barely warm to the touch.
  
 My power amp is an Accuphase P-4200, a class A/B amp. Accuphase also make beefy pure class A amps that get hot, but I avoided those because of the heat issue, and because A/B gives a much higher power output for less bucks. I have had this unit on for the past 8 hours and it is also just warm to the touch. I know going class A/B vs class A will involve some small degree of compromise on SQ, but that is worth it for me to avoid the heat issue (and any related reliability issues).


----------



## Stax-i-nox

I'm in the process of receiving a new pair of newly designed high-end 2 way speakers. The plan is to pair them
with my WA5, then try a couple of SS state amps....an Aragon A/B 4004 mkII and an upgraded Threshold A/B S200. With the Threshold, the plan is to use the Lightspeed Passive Attenuator. The speakers are 4 ohms. Will post here once I receive the speakers.


----------



## Brittonal

Does anyone have any recommendations on a dac for the Woo WA6 and HD650s at $500 or less?  I love the sound of my WA6 and don't want a dac that is going to change the sound very much.


----------



## Badas

brittonal said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations on a dac for the Woo WA6 and HD650s at $500 or less?  I love the sound of my WA6 and don't want a dac that is going to change the sound very much.


 

  

 I found the Cambridge Audio DacMagic (pictured under iPod) was excellent for the $$'s. Very neutral, rendered treble nicely and with respect.
  
 Eventually went Arcam irDac. It has a slightly warm from neutral signature. Especially in the mids. That is what I was looking for. However if you want neutral DacMagic maybe what you are looking for.


----------



## Justin_Time

I am ready to take the plunge for a pair of Elrog 300B tubes for my Woo WA5.

Based on your own experience, a recommendation on the best place to order these from will be much appreciated.


----------



## Khragon

Got mine from: http://www.trueaudiophile.com/
 Marc is pretty good and keep us in the loop when there's a slight delay


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> Got mine from: http://www.trueaudiophile.com/
> Marc is pretty good and keep us in the loop when there's a slight delay


 
 +1


----------



## Sko0byDoo

How about Takatsuki 300B U.S. distributor?  Thinking about taking a chance with PriceJapan...


----------



## Stax-i-nox

+1 for Trueaudiophile.com


----------



## isquirrel

Yep well thanks to constant plugging from Matt  I have a pair of Abyss (can you say Abysses ??) turning up today, I know I have slagged these things off but have never spent any real time with them, so decided to shut up and find out for myself.
  
 We shall see if this turns out to be another "Pie in the Face" for me.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We hope you guys and gals will join us.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/741136/canjam-socal-2015-march-28-29-2015-its-official
  

  
 http://www.chestergroup.org/montrealaudioshow/2015


----------



## Audioclyde

sko0bydoo said:


> How about Takatsuki 300B U.S. distributor?  Thinking about taking a chance with PriceJapan...



I purchased my TA300B's via PriceJapan; delivered to Oklahoma, USA, with no problems whatsoever. As they inform you up front, it can take them up to a week or so to get the tubes and ship. My experience was very good. 

Randy


----------



## isquirrel

audioclyde said:


> I purchased my TA300B's via PriceJapan; delivered to Oklahoma, USA, with no problems whatsoever. As they inform you up front, it can take them up to a week or so to get the tubes and ship. My experience was very good.
> 
> Randy


 

 You won't regret it !


----------



## Sko0byDoo

audioclyde said:


> I purchased my TA300B's via PriceJapan; delivered to Oklahoma, USA, with no problems whatsoever. As they inform you up front, it can take them up to a week or so to get the tubes and ship. My experience was very good.
> 
> Randy


 
  
 Thanks...price through PriceJapan looks very good.  Will look into order a set soon.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

I don't usually _wax rhapsodic_ this much for stereo equipment, but when I hear something that  sounds this good for not a _LOT_ of money, I feel it's warranted, and I hope more people will get to know these great speakers. 
  
 For anyone who is looking to buy a pair of speakers to pair with the WA5, or any amp for that matter, these have to be heard to be believed. I am simply in AWE with what I am hearing, and they are not even broken in, nor are the Elrog's. Have had them out of the box for only a few days.  I have not heard this kind of beautiful, natural, music coming from speakers before.  It's like one is there in person. _*Effortless*_, natural, real, clarity, are some of the adjectives that come to mind  to describe the sound of these speakers. Soundstage is phenomenal, goes way behind the speakers, and behind me as well. NO ear fatigue after hours of listening! Fantastic mid-range, bass impact is remarkable for a 2 way....40-27,000khz, 94db sensitivity...the WA5 volume never goes beyond 11 o'clock in a good sized liv room, with a sloped 20ft ceiling, to get more than adequate sound!  To top it off, in my liv room, they are not yet in the idea position they should be in, and they sound this good. 
  
 I have been a performing professional classical musician all my life, still working, ...... and am familiar with what music sounds like live...these speakers get that sound in spades, among other attributes. They should be _ten times or more_ than what he is charging for them. 
  
 They are not huge, but have a sound that is huge. You would think you were listening to much bigger speakers. I thought I might need a sub....not unless I want to listen to some church organ etc, would I need one with these. 
  
 I sound like I am a salesman for these speakers....I am not, and have no vested interest in the company.
  
 Except for the WA5, with the Elrog's, and some new speaker wire, my equipment is old school..and am getting incredible sound....here is what I am using:
  
 1. Sony XA7es CD player (digital out into the D2A)
 2. Aragon D2A DAC  (a one-of-a-kind prototype)
 3. Woo Audio WA5  (Elrog 300's) 
 4. new Anticable Level 3 speaker wire. (very good sound btw) www.anticables.com 
 5. Jena Labs 2 strand interconnect ( from the D2A to the WA5)
 6. TaraLabs digital interconnect  (used/early version)  (from XA7es digital out to the D2A) 
  
 I have not tried SS state...yet...I'm so taken with the WA5,  but coming next week from an upgrade, is a Threshold S200 amp, and from Australia, the "Lightspeed Passive Attenuator" to pair with the S200. I also have a couple of other ss amps packed away that I want to try.
  
 Jack, if you are reading this, you should give Alex a call and try his speaker with your amps.   40 day trial period.. and Alex, the designer, is very nice to deal with......but I don't think anyone would want to return these.  I liken this speaker to a very fine musical instrument. 
  
 The model speaker I have is the "Grand Teton SE", with the matching stands. www.wavetouchaudio.com  The build quality is great as well, rock solid enclosures with the laminated Russian Birch, nice looking too.  The design of this speaker is very different from the norm.   I am telling everyone I know about them...the word needs to spread how good these are!@!


----------



## musicman59

Guys,
 I need to fund another purchase so I will be selling a pair of EAT 300B with about 50 hours on them and I am also thinking on selling a pair of WE421A rectifiers (not sure about these ones yet). I will post in the For Sale forum over the weekend.


----------



## WooAudio

Hello Stax-i-nox,
  
 Thank you so much for sharing your impression here with the community. It is truly a pleasure to know the WA5 is still working on its top game.
  
 For the records, Stax-i-nox took ownership of his WA5 since June 2007. He lent us his beloved AKG K1000 headphones so we could refine the K1K output for his headphones. The K1K output is now known to drive Hifiman HE5/6 and Abyss AB-1266 headphones at potential. Thanks again for your supports!
  
 Cheers,
 Jack


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Hi Jack,
  
 You're welcome!  I have had zero issues with it...still working perfectly!
  
 I am having the same reaction to these speakers as I did with your WA5 back in 2007.   To have this level of clarity, effortless sound, depth, width and behind the head soundstage, which seems to be all around my head, (uncanny) depending on the recording and the venue,  not to mention the beauty and realness of  the music that is coming from these speakers, is absolutely amazing!!
  
  Let me also say, even at this early stage of both the Elrog's and the speakers , ANY change upstream one can hear the effect.  As an example, I inserted a high end power cord that I bought years ago,  and I immediately heard a difference in the sound, that's how sensitive these speakers are.  Of course your WA5 and the Elrog tubes are contributing to this whole experience. I put my JJ Tesla 300's back in, momentarily, just to hear the difference...they went back in the box very quickly.  
  
 94db sensitivity...great match for the WA5. 
  
 I remember after I sent you my K1000 to test with my WA5, on return of the K1, you asked if you could buy them...LOL....not -a-chance was my answer....
  
 Evidently, I am not the only one that is ecstatic about these speakers.  Here is a review of the model below the SE. 
  
 http://www.stereotimes.com/post/wavetouch-audio-grand-teton-loudspeaker
  
 In reading the above review...... "*Truth be told, with the Wavetouch technology, the Grand Tetons have all clarity and fine detail of an extremely good set of headphones while developing a most expansive soundstage every bit as wide, deep, layered and immersive as any other speakers I’ve heard to date… quite a neat feat, I’d say!"*
  
 This is exactly my reaction as well!
  
 Once I get my living room in order, will post a pic of the WA5 and the Grand Teton SE's.


----------



## Khragon

Got new Schiit coming, can't wait for yggy, so I purchased the gungnir. Hope it's a good one.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

A couple of beautiful night shots shared with us by a WA22 and WA6-SE customer.


----------



## NoxNoctum

WA-5 owners: Is upgrading the tubes pretty much a necessity to get the most out of it? I could probably swing the price of just the amp, but it looks like I'd be looking to drop another 2 grand for good tubes, in which case I figure I'd better off just waiting till I can do it all. Thoughts?


----------



## earthpeople

Not a WA5 owner but if you buy the amp now, you can still enjoy it while you wait to get new tubes. It might make you appreciate the upgrade tubes more, since you would have more experience with the stock tubes as a point of reference for comparison.


----------



## Khragon

Yeah upgrading from the stock tubes is pretty much a necessity to enjoy the wa5 or any woo amp for that matter. However you don't need to spend a lot on to get 80% there. Mullard rectifier us around $150/a pair, same for 6sn7 upgrades, a used Sophia mesh 300b will probably another $200 or so. So with an extra $500-$600 you can enjoy the amp for a long time until the upgrade syndrome hit.


----------



## joegiz

I recently purchased a Woo WA2 and have been enjoying it with stock tubes.   Depending on what you are using now the WA5 stock will be a night and day comparison.  Upgrading tubes down the road should only make it better.
  
 I didn't wait for coin to purchase upgraded tubes when I bought my WA2...I suggest pulling the trigger now if you can.


----------



## Porteroso

Speaking of the wa5 tubes, I remember someone saying the wa234 stock is better than the wa5 maxed. Is that really true for a wa5 with takatsuki/eltog, truly maxed? Just curious.


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> Speaking of the wa5 tubes, I remember someone saying the wa234 stock is better than the wa5 maxed. Is that really true for a wa5 with takatsuki/eltog, truly maxed? Just curious.


 
  
 Given how terrible the stock tubes are, I'm kinda curious about this too. The WA5 scales enormously with better glass.


----------



## Krutsch

noxnoctum said:


> WA-5 owners: Is upgrading the tubes pretty much a necessity to get the most out of it? I could probably swing the price of just the amp, but it looks like I'd be looking to drop another 2 grand for good tubes, in which case I figure I'd better off just waiting till I can do it all. Thoughts?


 
  
  


earthpeople said:


> Not a WA5 owner but if you buy the amp now, you can still enjoy it while you wait to get new tubes. It *might make you appreciate the upgrade tubes more*, since you would have more experience with the stock tubes as a point of reference for comparison.


 

 Also not a WA5 owner, but could not agree more with @earthpeople 's comment, especially if you are new to tubes. It stretches out some relief of the upgrade itch - each new tube set I buy makes me feel like I am getting a new amp, to some degree.
  
 BTW, off-topic, I was reading the old WA3 upgrade thread from @jamato8 and was intrigued by his comments on various tubes (all of which I now own). He's right about the differences between the Western Electric 421a (which I love) and the Tung-Sol 7236 - the latter lacks the WE's tone and warmth, but has impressive speed/slam and is great for metal. Paired the TS 7236 w/ a set of Reflector Corp, Saratov 6H23p-EB and the new Steven Wilson BD is really crisp.
  
 Reading these Necro threads is free education for me... and I really need to finish my chart.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Picked up a pair of Psvane CV181-TII from Grant Fidelity. They supposedly need up to 300 hours to burn-in but I'm loving them right out of the box. I've only put about 35 hours on them so far so I'm interested to see if/how they change with more hours. Obligatory pictures:


----------



## Angelbelow

Definitely enjoyed the WA5 immensely with just stock tubes. As for upgrades, I do have the 6sn7 sylvania bad boys (took a few times though because I kept getting bad tubes) but the one I finally got to work is getting kind of noisy. Perhaps its dying out. For the 300bs I have stock but just purchased some psvane treasures but they have not arrived yet. I also have the brimar rectifiers.
  
 Currently I dont detect any major changes in sound when using stock tubes for the 300b and 6sn7 and switching out the stock rectifiers with the Brimars but I havent done any comparisons either. I can say with confidence that I'm loving the current sound and content with not spending big bucks for major upgrades just yet.
  
 Ofcousre... the curiosity is always there with some of the more expensive tubes.


----------



## Krutsch

indiegradofan said:


> Obligatory pictures:


 
  
 Nice pics and rig. I need to acquire some tube dampers; I have a couple of tubes that present microphonics during playback that I can attenuate simply by holding a metal pen against the glass.


----------



## TonyNewman

angelbelow said:


> Definitely enjoyed the WA5 immensely with just stock tubes. ...


 
  
 The good thing about the stock tubes is that just about _*anything *_you do from there is going to offer significantly better SQ than what you are currently getting. Come to think of it, that is probably the only good thing about the stock tubes that I can come up with - they set the baseline of the worst that the WA5 can perform.
  
 Modestly priced NOS driver and rectifier options that offer significant SQ improvement are out there. Perhaps the biggest challenge is the 300B upgrade options - decent sounding 300Bs are expensive.
  
 Good luck and enjoy the WA5


----------



## Angelbelow

tonynewman said:


> The good thing about the stock tubes is that just about _*anything *_you do from there is going to offer significantly better SQ than what you are currently getting. Come to think of it, that is probably the only good thing about the stock tubes that I can come up with - they set the baseline of the worst that the WA5 can perform.
> 
> Modestly priced NOS driver and rectifier options that offer significant SQ improvement are out there. Perhaps the biggest challenge is the 300B upgrade options - decent sounding 300Bs are expensive.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy the WA5


 
  
 I just bought a pair of Psvane Hifi 300bs to test the waters. Not expensive but hopefully an upgrade over the stock.


----------



## Fatsosixsixsix

I read somewhere that tubes for the WA6SE were harder to find compared to the WA6, is that still the case? Currently looking to buy my first tube amp and trying to decide between the WA6 and WA6SE


----------



## TonyNewman

angelbelow said:


> I just bought a pair of Psvane Hifi 300bs to test the waters. Not expensive but hopefully an upgrade over the stock.


 
  
 I have used the HiFi series 845 tubes. Decent quality for the money - should definitely be a step up from stock.


----------



## joseph69

fatsosixsixsix said:


> I read somewhere that tubes for the WA6SE were harder to find compared to the WA6, is that still the case? Currently looking to buy my first tube amp and trying to decide between the WA6 and WA6SE


 
 WA6!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Had both…the WA6 first, sold it, bought the 6-SE, sold it to buy another WA6…couldn't be happier!!!


----------



## Fatsosixsixsix

joseph69 said:


> WA6!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I read your post in the other thread  it seemed like you preferred the WA6 due to the incompatibility of 6SN7 tubes with the WA6SE however


----------



## Angelbelow

tonynewman said:


> I have used the HiFi series 845 tubes. Decent quality for the money - should definitely be a step up from stock.


 
  
 I mentioned that I never A/Bed the Brimar vs the stock before and was previously unsure if I noticed any significant differences. Just did a blind test with a friend of mine and the Brimar's are definitely the clear winner. Basically we left the volume knob and demoed 3 preselected songs each. Definitely great value on the Brimars rectifiers.
  
 Most noticable change was that the Brimar's did a better job with the bass and the instrument separation. With the stock, some of the songs I choose sounded a little congested. I'm sure there are more but thats what stood out to me.
  
 Looking forward to trying out the hifi series for the 300bs!


----------



## joseph69

fatsosixsixsix said:


> I read your post in the other thread  it seemed like you preferred the WA6 due to the incompatibility of 6SN7 tubes with the WA6SE however


 
 Yes, this is the reason, but also too me the WA6 sounded much warmer than the 6-SE and I didn't like any tube combo as much as I liked the 596/6SN7 in it. I actually felt like I took a step backwards after hearing/having the 6-SE. Yes the 6-SE had more power, but IMO that was all it had over the WA6. Tube wise, the WA6 suites my tastes much better, and has more than enough power at a less expensive price.


----------



## Porteroso

The WA6 can drive most cans, and joseph has put to rest the idea, for many of us, that there are other tube options that will make you forget about the 6sn7 (6f8g). I am willing to trust him on that, after hearing the best of the 6f8g. Hard to beat, and totally worth it. 

One small note, try to get a newer WA6 with the bigger driver cutouts. Using extenders on the older ones is a pain, especially when you have 2 sets of adapters as well.


----------



## Fririce0003

porteroso said:


> Speaking of the wa5 tubes, I remember someone saying the wa234 stock is better than the wa5 maxed. Is that really true for a wa5 with takatsuki/eltog, truly maxed? Just curious.







tonynewman said:


> Given how terrible the stock tubes are, I'm kinda curious about this too. The WA5 scales enormously with better glass.




 I didn't have the takatsuki's and elrogs at the time of the comparison. But the stock 234 easily bested my maxed wa5 which had KR300b's, Full Music 274b/n/+ and sylvania bad boys in it. If I had to quantify it was about a 10-20% increase in overall technical prowess and musical enjoyment. And now that I've got the takatsuki 300b's, 274b's and TSRP in the 234, it's no competition. Haven't finished burning them in yet and I've already been loosing sleep from late night/early morning listening.... Listening until 3-4am isn't good when you start work at 6am :S


----------



## Porteroso

Hm. Well. The 234 is an unfortunate amount of long ways off for me.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> The WA6 can drive most cans, and joseph has put to rest the idea, for many of us, that there are other tube options that will make you forget about the 6sn7 (6f8g). I am willing to trust him on that, after hearing the best of the 6f8g. Hard to beat, and totally worth it.
> 
> One small note, try to get a newer WA6 with the bigger driver cutouts. Using extenders on the older ones is a pain, especially when you have 2 sets of adapters as well.


 
 Which combo/s do you prefer in your WA6?
 I've only heard of the 6F8G recently from @TonyNewman.


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> I didn't have the takatsuki's and elrogs at the time of the comparison. But the stock 234 easily bested my maxed wa5 which had KR300b's, Full Music 274b/n/+ and sylvania bad boys in it. If I had to quantify it was about a 10-20% increase in overall technical prowess and musical enjoyment. And now that I've got the takatsuki 300b's, 274b's and TSRP in the 234, it's no competition. Haven't finished burning them in yet and I've already been loosing sleep from late night/early morning listening.... Listening until 3-4am isn't good when you start work at 6am :S


 
  
 Interesting.
  
 I am not a big fan of Sylvania drivers - to me they are bright, to the point of harshness in some tube combinations. I have tried the TJ Full Music 6SN7 and didn't like that tube much either.
  
 The KR300Bs and TJ Full Music rectifiers I have never heard.
  
 Just my 2 cents, but I think there might be plenty of scope for better glass in the WA5 than the above example. Best combination I have had in mine (waiting on a pair of Elrog 300Bs as I type this) is SERP 300Bs / NU 6F8Gs (tried the TS RP - prefer the NU) / Brimar rectifiers.
  
 Not saying that the stock WA234 won't beat a maxed WA5, just that the tube example above is not taking the WA5 as far as it can go and perhaps there is quite a bit of scope for better glass in the WA5.
  
 I do get what you are saying on the addictive sound. Once you have a tube combination that works for you the hours just float by - the "just one more song" syndrome


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I am not a big fan of Sylvania drivers - to me they are bright, to the point of harshness in some tube combinations. I have tried the TJ Full Music 6SN7 and didn't like that tube much either.
> 
> ...





The sylvanias can certainly get a tad bright with some combinations, some of the other tubes I've tried in it were SERP's, Sophia 274B mesh, Psvane WE274b's and I've also tried a couple of different driver tubes. At the time I was prioritising speed and detail. The SERP's were lusher but slower, the Psvane rectifiers were a little too dark which smeared the details and the Sophia mesh rectifiers didn't keep up with either. 
 Unfortunately most of the driver tubes I had at the time were off eBay, so the only good sets I had were sylvania bad boys and chrome domes as well as a set of ken rad vt-231's. So not too much choice there. But I do agree a better choice of driver tubes would've closed the gap a bit, the WA5 does scale wonderfully with better tubes and cables.


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> The sylvanias can certainly get a tad bright with some combinations, some of the other tubes I've tried in it were SERP's, Sophia 274B mesh, Psvane WE274b's and I've also tried a couple of different driver tubes. At the time I was prioritising speed and detail. The SERP's were lusher but slower, the Psvane rectifiers were a little too dark which smeared the details and the Sophia mesh rectifiers didn't keep up with either.
> Unfortunately most of the driver tubes I had at the time were off eBay, so the only good sets I had were sylvania bad boys and chrome domes as well as a set of ken rad vt-231's. So not too much choice there. But I do agree a better choice of driver tubes would've closed the gap a bit, the WA5 does scale wonderfully with better tubes and cables.


 
  
 It still says a lot about the WA234 that with the atrocious stock tubes it significantly beats a WA5 with 'decent' tubes. That is no small achievement for the WA234 to pull off.
  
 Then again, extraordinary performance should be expected from a product with an extraordinary price. My HeadFi journey ends with the WA5, unless I win the lottery


----------



## Porteroso

joseph69 said:


> Which combo/s do you prefer in your WA6?
> I've only heard of the 6F8G recently from @TonyNewman.


 
 Right now I am running the Sophia with the NU VT-99, which is just the military version of the 6F8G. I also have listened to the Brimar and TS rp combo, it is great. Really both combos are very good. I would love to try some of the end tier rectifiers, but those get into the big dollars.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> Right now I am running the Sophia with the NU VT-99, which is just the military version of the 6F8G. I also have listened to the Brimar and TS rp combo, it is great. Really both combos are very good. I would love to try some of the end tier rectifiers, but those get into the big dollars.


 





 Please accept my apologies…I do realize that I *totally* misunderstood your post. I missed the part where you said "the *best* of the 6F8G"…not thinking clearly tonight.
 I have both the 596/Brimar-5Z4G and I can tell you that the Brimar held its own very well IMO. What 6F8G tubes are the best of which you would like to hear, [size=x-small]I would like to find/try them? O[/size]ne thing that is puzzling me, is[size=x-small] I don't see that the 6F8G compatible with the WA6 on Woo's compatibility chart, but you are using them with the WA6, correct? If so, is an adapter needed? Thank you.[/size]
 [size=x-small]Once again, my apologies for misunderstanding your post, and as you can see I have edited my questioning you about it. [/size]


----------



## Porteroso

It was not negative. I am saying that I had considered what the 6-SE would give over the regular 6, and it was good to hear from someone who owned both that the WA6 wins out when you throw 6SN7 into the mix. 6F8G, by the way, is electrically equivalent to 6SN7, really 6SN7 was meant to replace 6F8G, because running the heater wire up to the top was a pain. 
  
 All of this is what one would expect, that giving up 6SN7 would have a negative impact upon the sound, but it is good to hear it from someone who listened to both. Obviously there are headphones that the 6-SE would be better with, and you are right, everyone is different.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> It was not negative. I am saying that I had considered what the 6-SE would give over the regular 6, and it was good to hear from someone who owned both that the WA6 wins out when you throw 6SN7 into the mix. 6F8G, by the way, is electrically equivalent to 6SN7, really 6SN7 was meant to replace 6F8G, because running the heater wire up to the top was a pain.
> 
> All of this is what one would expect, that giving up 6SN7 would have a negative impact upon the sound, but it is good to hear it from someone who listened to both. Obviously there are headphones that the 6-SE would be better with, and you are right, everyone is different.


 
 Thanks for explaining the reason for the 6F8G replacing the 6SN7.
 So then can I use the 6DE7>6SN7 adapter as well for the 6F8G, or do I need a different adapter?


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> ...[size=x-small] I don't see that the 6F8G compatible with the WA6 on Woo's compatibility chart, but you are using them with the WA6, correct? If so, is an adapter needed? Thank you.[/size]


 
  
 They are equivalent to 6SN7, so if 6SN7s are OK, so are 6F8Gs.
  
 An adapter is needed for the top mounted heater element - please excuse my crap camera work.


----------



## bpcans

There's a Mullard GZ34 metal base rectifier tube for sale on eBay for a few more hours, and it's only $899. Anybody bidding?


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for explaining the reason for the 6F8G replacing the 6SN7.
> So then can I use the 6DE7>6SN7 adapter as well for the 6F8G, or do I need a different adapter?


 
  
 You need 2 sets of adapters, as per the picture.
  
 1 set 6DE7->6SN7
 1 set 6SN7->6F8G
  
 I have never seen an adapter that goes directly from 6DE7 to 6F8G.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> You need 2 sets of adapters, as per the picture.
> 
> 1 set 6DE7->6SN7
> 1 set 6SN7->6F8G
> ...


 
 You should contact Glenn, to see if he can make one for you that goes for 6DE7 -> 6F8G.
 As for 6F8G adapter I preferred Glenn over Woo.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> They are equivalent to 6SN7, so if 6SN7s are OK, so are 6F8Gs.
> 
> An adapter is needed for the top mounted heater element - please excuse my crap camera work.


Holy Cow Tony! Those are some impressive driver tubes. What's your current WA6 tube setup? I'm sorry if you've already posted it, but I thought I'd ask since your up on the other side of the planet where the toilet water spins the wrong way.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> You should contact Glenn, to see if he can make one for you that goes for 6DE7 -> 6F8G.
> As for 6F8G adapter I preferred Glenn over Woo.


 
  
 I have a pair of Glenn 6SN7->6F8G adapters on order (hopefully being made this weekend). These are for my WA5.
  
 I am very happy to stack the adapters in the WA6.
  
 Space is at a premium in the WA5 due to the silly design of putting the drive and output sockets in a straight line. Might look nice, but it gets crowded with fat bottled tubes. Plenty of room to have moved some of the the sockets forward and apart a little - as per WA22.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Holy Cow Tony! Those are some impressive driver tubes. What's your current WA6 tube setup? I'm sorry if you've already posted it, but I thought I'd ask since your up on the other side of the planet where the toilet water spins the wrong way.


 
  
 Brimar rectifier with 2 National Union 6F8Gs. The Brimar is a close to neutral rectifier (I think) so the sweetness of the NU drivers doesn't overpower the sound. I really like this combination in both the WA5 and WA6. Works great with the HD800 and HE6 (both modded - HE6 only driven from the WA5, of course). If you prefer a more neutral sound signature the 6F8G TS RP might be a better choice.
  
 OT - I lived in the USA for 3 years and not once did I take notice of which way the water spins after flushing - still not 100% sure it is any different to the Southern Hemisphere


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> There's a Mullard GZ34 metal base rectifier tube for sale on eBay for a few more hours, and it's only $899. Anybody bidding?


 
*ONLY…*well I'll have to think about it
 I've thought about it…I won't be bidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





tonynewman said:


> They are equivalent to 6SN7, so if 6SN7s are OK, so are 6F8Gs.
> An adapter is needed for the top mounted heater element - please excuse my crap camera work.


 
 Thank you for the information/confirmation/photos.
Quote:


khragon said:


> You should contact Glenn, to see if he can make one for you that goes for 6DE7 -> 6F8G.
> As for 6F8G adapter I preferred Glenn over Woo.


 
 I prefer Glenns adapters over Woo's also, but the last time I asked Glenn to make me adapters for the 6-SE to accept 6SN7 tubes, it was a no go.



tonynewman said:


> I have a pair of Glenn 6SN7->6F8G adapters on order (hopefully being made this weekend). These are for my WA5.
> I am very happy to stack the adapters in the WA6.


 
 I don't understand, when I had asked Glenn if he could make me the Woo 6SN7 adapters for the 6-SE he said he doesn't like making adapters for Woo anymore??? I've also recently read he made a pair for someone else's 6-SE???


----------



## bpcans

TonyN, thanks for the tube list. I'll give the NU 6F8G's s look. Which way the water spins in a commode is something that only a 10yr old boy, or someone who's a KOOK(keeper of obscure knowledge) like me, would be interested in.


----------



## Porteroso

Out of curiosity Tony, what were your thoughts on the NU vs TS? I have 2 pairs now of both, and the NU sets sound a bit different from one another. Might be breakin, the first pair was used. I need to go back and listen to everything again, but like I said, I was wondering about your thoughts. If you posted them, I must have missed them.


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> Out of curiosity Tony, what were your thoughts on the NU vs TS? I have 2 pairs now of both, and the NU sets sound a bit different from one another. Might be breakin, the first pair was used. I need to go back and listen to everything again, but like I said, I was wondering about your thoughts. If you posted them, I must have missed them.


 
  
 I have been very quiet about them as I have only started down the 6F8G road very recently - so I'm a complete NOOB on the topic - so please take all this with plenty of salt.
  
 What I have found so far is that the the NUs bring a sweetness to the table that the TS RPs do not. Both have great detail and extension, but I prefer the NUs over the RPs with the Brimars. I suspect this is because the Brimars have very little colouration, so they match very well with the NUs. If I had a rectifier (and/or 300Bs in the WA5) that were more coloured, then the TS RPs would perhaps be a better match.
  
 Either driver outshines anything else I have heard before. I think I have heard every new production 6SN7 tube that is on the market, and many (certainly not all) of the NOS - to my ears nothing else comes close to the TS RP or the 6F8G NU.
  
 For anyone getting into the 6F8G arena - be aware that the rebranding is absolutely horrendous - even worse than with the 6SN7s. The only way to be sure of what you are getting is to check the tube internals. The brands printed on the tubes mean very little.
  
 On the left is a TS RP, in the middle an NU and on the right an RCA (or what I think is an RCA - hard to tell as I have those same internals under several brands). The TS RP is distinctive. The NU and RCA look similar, but sound quite different. The RCA is a _*good *_tube, the NU is a _*great*_ tube (as is the TS RP).
  
 Apologies for my ineptness with a camera. I turned the flash off to try to highlight the internals - doesn't really work all that well.
  

  
 Shot with flash on:
  

  
 Some caveats:
 1) To repeat - I am a newbie with the 6F8Gs - my views could easily change in the coming weeks and months as I get more headtime with these beasties.
 2) I like a coloured 'tubey' sound. The NUs might be too much for some - in which case the TS RP would perhaps be a better choice.
 3) My comparisons are largely done with my WA6 as my WA5 is currently being repaired (subject of a gruesome capacitor failure).


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> It still says a lot about the WA234 that with the atrocious stock tubes it significantly beats a WA5 with 'decent' tubes. That is no small achievement for the WA234 to pull off.
> 
> Then again, extraordinary performance should be expected from a product with an extraordinary price. My HeadFi journey ends with the WA5, unless I win the lottery


 
 +1 same here - I love my WA5


----------



## Porteroso

Interesting that you find the NU has a sweetness quality. I will have to listen more, as I agree that the NU adds something, but I originally thought of it as more of an edge. However I spent 1 day a/bing them, and I only had the ps500. I will be home tonight, and the hd650 awaits. Cans can definitely alter one's perception of an amp and tubes.

Also every time I read about the WA5 I want one so bad! I might have to stop reading headfi for a while.

Edit: my last 2 tubes to hear will be the kenrad, which soinds like fun, and the melz 6h8c, which might, I think, give the tsrp a run in terms of balance and transparency, though I highly doubt it could beat it overall. That would end my driver exploration, I should have heard the best of the 6sn7 and 6f8g. Then, onto the much more expensive recifier hunt


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> ...
> Also every time I read about the WA5 I want one so bad! I might have to stop reading headfi for a while.
> ...


 
  
 I know the feeling - the problem is that there is always another step up. I have a WA5 and every time I read about the WA234 (or Viva Egoista) I want one. There is no solution, apart from either buying the very top end (I can't afford it) or being happy with what you have (I can do that, but it doesn't stop me lusting after the new and shiny toys).


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I know the feeling - the problem is that there is always another step up. I have a WA5 and every time I read about the WA234 (or Viva Egoista) I want one. There is no solution, apart from either buying the very top end (I can't afford it) or being happy with what you have (I can do that, but it doesn't stop me lusting after the new and shiny toys).


 

 Ya get so bogged down on technical stuff that ya forget the music.
  
 I know the WA234 and WA5 is better than my WA22. However I don't care.
  
 WA22 is loud and powerful enough. Sounds just the way I want and like it so now I'm just enjoying it.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Ya get so bogged down on technical stuff that ya forget the music.
> 
> *I know the WA234 and WA5 is better than my WA22.*


 
  
 ...which is better than the WA2 on my radar which is better than my WA3... but I don't care, since the ...
  


> WA22 WA3 is loud and powerful enough. Sounds just the way I want and like it so now I'm just enjoying it.


 
  
 I never set the volume above 12 o'clock with the HD-650s, so I know I have plenty of power.
  
 Of course, none of this has stopped me from spending on tubes, but I have always been a sucker for an incremental side-grade.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> ...which is better than the WA2 on my radar which is better than my WA3... but I don't care, since the ...
> 
> 
> I never set the volume above 12 o'clock with the HD-650s, so I know I have plenty of power.
> ...


 

 Exactamando. That is the way to think about it.
  
 If it works for your taste and equipment then who cares about the more expensive Woo's.
  
 The only reason I would be interested in a more powerful / expensive Woo is if I bought a headphone like the HE-6. So guess what? I won't buy a HE-6.


----------



## Porteroso

I really wish that one day, I could have an entire day with the entire woo lineup, with max tubes and lots of cans. I have no problem enjoying the music, that is not an issue. Not knowing exactly how good the best of the best is, is the issue. Not knowing things just pisses me off.

I do think that the WA 5 will be the end of tube amps for me, and after that will be solid state, but just to hear a maxed 234 once, that would be enough. By the way, if anyone with a WA5 wants to come to the nashville meet... That would be fine


----------



## Badas

Hey,
  
 If someone has it can they PM me Jacks email?
  
 I need to ask him a question.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Hey,
> If someone has it can they PM me Jacks email?
> I need to ask him a question.


 
 info@wooaudio.com
  
 orders@wooaudio.com


----------



## daverich4

khragon said:


> You should contact Glenn, to see if he can make one for you that goes for 6DE7 -> 6F8G.
> As for 6F8G adapter I preferred Glenn over Woo.




I have a pair of Glenn's 6F8G adapters. Nicely made and built in a mirror image to keep the wires to the outside on my WA22.


----------



## effles

I'll be picking up a Wa3 later this week for my HD650's. Anyone have any tube recommendations? I listen to Folk/Folk Rock, not a whole lot else.


----------



## bpcans

effles said:


> I'll be picking up a Wa3 later this week for my HD650's. Anyone have any tube recommendations? I listen to Folk/Folk Rock, not a whole lot else.


That would be a great question for "Krutsch" since he has both the WA3 with lots of tubes, and the Senn 650's.


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> I'll be picking up a Wa3 later this week for my HD650's. Anyone have any tube recommendations? I listen to Folk/Folk Rock, not a whole lot else.


 
  
 I do, as a matter of face. I am working an evaluation and write-up for most of the tubes in the Woo matrix.
  
*Note: I don't work for anyone in the audio industry, I'm not selling anything, opinions are my own and, as always, YMMV.*
  
 However, to cut to the chase on the low-cost end *for the drivers*, I strongly recommend these:
  
http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/black-diamond-tubes/e88cc-tk.php
  
 They sound fantastic, have great clarity and imaging ... almost holographic compared to many of my other driver tubes. New they are about $50 US each, as I recall.
  

  
  
 ...if you want to spend more money, my other favorites are *Siemens CCa* (NOS), *Siemens E288CC* (NOS - mine are re-branded as Philips) or *Telefunken E188CC* (NOS); all are more expensive, but can be found on eBay. I have more tubes (see my profile), but these are the ones I rotate between.
  
 -- -- -- -- -- 
  
 For the *power tubes, that one is harder* (read: more expensive). I recommend the following, in ascending order:
  
 3. *Tung-Sol 7236* - clean and crisp sound, less bloomy or tubey (are those real words?), decent power and fast dynamics (compared to other 6080 compatible tubes). That last part is real; after spending a lot of time with the next two tubes, I noticed the speed right away with the TS 7236.
  
     *Note: I have* Sylvania 7236* tubes that don't sound half-bad; are close in sound, less expensive and less rare. Maybe try these - I haven't listened to these for a while?
  
     *Note: I have a collection of *6AS7Gs *from *RCA *(black plates) and *Tung-Sol*, but folks who know better usually advocate the *GEC* version, which is expensive and more rare; I have not done extensive listening to my 6AS7Gs, work gets in the way, so I with-hold comments on these tubes.
  
  
 2. *Tung-Sol 5998* (or Chatham 2399) - the Chatham tubes are re-branded TS 5998, but my pair has somewhat different sound characteristic between the types, which might be a factor of wear. The TS 5998 is a favorite of many and presents a lot of bass and more "tube sound". IMO, it's a very syrupy tube with a lot of "bloom"; with the HD-650s, I think it sounds quite pleasing for some music, like warm guitar rock or female vocals.
  
  
 1. *Western Electric 421a* - these have been described as the "holy grail" for 6080 compatible tubes; so far, I agree. Many believe these are identical to the TS 5998, of this I respectfully disagree. These tubes are now stupidly expensive on eBay. IMO, the Westys combine the best of the TS 7236 and the TS 5998 - that is, there is good bass and oomph, but with less bloom (i.e. less bleed of lower frequencies into the lower mids). The speed is good (not as great as the 7236, IMO), but what really separate the Westys from the pack is the clear, warm tonality. Seriously, with this glass, I can listen all night and lose track of the time.
  
 I'm not a writer for 6moons, so this is the best I can do off the top of my head.


----------



## effles

Thank you so much for the suggestions, Krutsch. This is my first step into the world of tube amplification and the help is really appreciated.
  
 I have the joys of trying to get a hold of these in the UK, but is seems as though this website offers international shipping.
 They stock the e88cc for $48, but unfortunately none of the recommended Power Tubes are in stock. I'll have a look around, but I might just upgrade the driver tubes now and the power tubes later, assuming that's an acceptable thing to do.
  
 Is there any recommended reading for understanding the different tube sizes and types?


----------



## Badas

I discovered something yesterday. I had a power tube Brimar 6080 (rebadged Sylvania I think) that was noisy. I thought I would just keep burning it in and it would go away. Well I got over 50 hours with no improvement. Then I started playing with the 6F8G wire and it went quiet.
 In the end I removed the power tubes and switched left to right and right to left. As they were sitting in different positions internally. Volla. Noise gone. I suspect power from the power tube was effecting the wire on the adapter. Changing the internals position fixed it. Just something to be aware of.
  
 Oh. By the way. I agree with Tony. The NU 6F8G is the best driver tube I have listened to and I have listened to many. I've stocked up.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Oh. By the way. I agree with Tony. The NU 6F8G is the best driver tube I have listened to and I have listened to many. I've stocked up.


 
 Good to hear you fixed the noise issue!
 Where are you buying your NU-6F8G's from, I would like to purchase a pair + adapters?
 Thank you.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Good to hear you fixed the noise issue!
> Where are you buying your NU-6F8G's from, I would like to purchase a pair + adapters?
> Thank you.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/321682463380?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 The Italian guy.
  
 He hasn't got any for sale at the moment. However he will soon. Auctions end. Then he lists a new one.
  
 I'm just using the adapters above for testing. To see if I liked. Now I do like I'm getting Glenn to make a proper pair.


----------



## GrindingThud

I always liked Amperex 6DJ8 PQ A-frames for the drivers. 



effles said:


> I'll be picking up a Wa3 later this week for my HD650's. Anyone have any tube recommendations? I listen to Folk/Folk Rock, not a whole lot else.


----------



## joseph69

Thank you for the information on the 6F8G's, I appreciate it!


----------



## effles

grindingthud said:


> I always liked Amperex 6DJ8 PQ A-frames for the drivers.


 
 Cheers for the suggestion! Does the make affect the performance at all?
 For instance, how would an Amperex 6DJ8 differ from a Telefunken or a Mullard?


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Thank you for the information on the 6F8G's, I appreciate it!


 
  
 Feeling the 6F8G TS RP love:


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Feeling the 6F8G TS RP love:


 

 Woooooooo or should I say Woo?
  
 TS 6F8G's RP very nice.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Feeling the 6F8G TS RP love:


 
 I can't wait too feel some! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 How do I go about ordering the adapters from Glenn for the 6F8G's
 Thank you.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I can't wait too feel some!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Send him a PM
  
 Here is his thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio


----------



## GrindingThud

Some say so, but I don't have enough experience to say either way. I will say that the Amperex (holland) PQ A frame is under rated and sounds pretty transparent to me.



effles said:


> Cheers for the suggestion! Does the make affect the performance at all?
> For instance, how would an Amperex 6DJ8 differ from a Telefunken or a Mullard?


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321682463380?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> The Italian guy.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Careful, this guy (vintubes) ripped me off. I bought 8 T-S flat plates from him that were great. Then I bought 8 NUs, they were ALL bad... terrible static at best, headphone-endangering screeches at worst. He refused to honor his own return policy, and I had to escalate the case to eBay before he came to his senses and gave me a refund (and he didn't even want me to send the tubes back... I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions from that.)


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Careful, this guy (vintubes) ripped me off. I bought 8 T-S flat plates from him that were great. Then I bought 8 NUs, they were ALL bad... terrible static at best, headphone-endangering screeches at worst. He refused to honor his own return policy, and I had to escalate the case to eBay before he came to his senses and gave me a refund (and he didn't even want me to send the tubes back... I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions from that.)


 
  
 Thanks for letting me know - I will give my newly aquired NUs a testing.
  
 Were the NUs NOS? I expect some degree of pre-burn in nastiness for NOS.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Send him a PM


 
 Thank again for the information!






tonynewman said:


> Thanks for letting me know - I will give my newly aquired NUs a testing.
> Were the NUs NOS? I expect some degree of pre-burn in nastiness for NOS.


 
 Did you also purchase your 6F8G's from this seller?
  


stereolab42 said:


> Careful, this guy (vintubes) ripped me off. I bought 8 T-S flat plates from him that were great. Then I bought 8 NUs, they were ALL bad... terrible static at best, headphone-endangering screeches at worst. He refused to honor his own return policy, and I had to escalate the case to eBay before he came to his senses and gave me a refund (and he didn't even want me to send the tubes back... I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions from that.)


 
 Hmm, thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Thank again for the information!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep - so far so good, but I have not tested my latest batch of NUs (4 pairs). Will them a burst in the WA6 tonight.
  
 My earlier purchases (2 pairs) were fine with no problems at all.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Yep - so far so good, but I have not tested my latest batch of NUs (4 pairs). Will them a burst in the WA6 tonight.
> My earlier purchases (2 pairs) were fine with no problems at all.


 
 Thanks…its a chance you take when buying NOS tubes from anywhere I would say. I bought almost every tube I own from eBay, and had an issue one time, but the seller and I settled it between ourselves and everything was fine.
 If you don't mind, please let me know how the rest of your tubes work out.
 Thank you.
  
 BTW, anywhere else these are available?


----------



## Badas

I have 2 pairs arriving any day now. I will also test.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I have 2 pairs arriving any day now. I will also test.


 
 Thanks.
 I've checked to see if Langrex sells them, but I don't see them.
 Going to check some other tubes store I've purchased from before.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Thanks.
> I've checked to see if Langrex sells them, but I don't see them.
> Going to check some other tubes store I've purchased from before.


 

 I sent a email to Langrex a few weeks ago. Nope. Nothing there. He said it was a US only tube. Altho I have seen a Euro tube that was basically a RCA. So they must have used them.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I sent a email to Langrex a few weeks ago. Nope. Nothing there. He said it was a US only tube. Altho I have seen a Euro tube that was basically a RCA. So they must have used them.


 
 I just checked about 7 tube distributors, and no one has the NU's, but I did find some RCA and Sylvania's, but would like to hear the NU from the comment on H-F.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Careful, this guy (vintubes) ripped me off. I bought 8 T-S flat plates from him that were great. Then I bought 8 NUs, they were ALL bad... terrible static at best, headphone-endangering screeches at worst. He refused to honor his own return policy, and I had to escalate the case to eBay before he came to his senses and gave me a refund (and he didn't even want me to send the tubes back... I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions from that.)


 
  
 I have given all of my NOS NUs a few minutes in my WA6 this evening - 7 pairs - 6 pairs from Italy and 1 pair from another seller - every one of them sound pretty good right out of the box.
  
 These are all NOS tubes, only removed from the box for testing as far as I know. All were free from microphonics, but had some _*limited *_harshness and lack of extension ... etc that is to be expected from a fresh NOS tube. There is a hint of the lovely sweetness that NUs deliver in some tubes already. Overall, these are some of the best sounding fresh tubes I have ever come across. Every one of them is an enjoyable listening experience right out of the box on my WA6.
  
 I can only guess that you had the awful bad luck to get a bad batch. That is very unfortunate and a bit of a tube lovers nightmare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Some pics - my 14 NUs stacked up after testing (the 2 empties on the right are still in the WA6):
  

  
 WA6 test bed - with the Brimar rectifier it has never sounded so good.
  

  
 I have compared 'Used, Tested as New' 6F8G TS RPs against 'Used, Tested as New' 6F8G NUs in the WA6 with the Brimar rectifier - and I generally prefer the NUs.
  
 I think this is due to the TS RPs being a more neutral driver, and when paired with the subtle Brimar rectifier I find it lacking a little colour for my tastes. Still a stunning listen, and it takes my WA6 far beyond what I thought were its limits, but the NUs deliver some sweet magic that makes the experience something else again. Vocals on the NUs are just big mugs of velvety loveliness. Yummy.
  
 With a rectifier that brings more colour to the table the TS RPs would be hard to beat. Either driver tube is a class act and will turn your audiophile crank with ease.
  
 Once I get my WA5 back next week, hopefully together with some ER300Bs, I will do some more A/B with the 6F8G TS RPs and NUs. Tough job, but someone has to do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Happy Listening


----------



## Badas

^

Wicked.


----------



## Porteroso

Just a note, I have not bought any tubes from that particular guy, but when I got my second pair of NU VT-99, I did think it was a bad pair at first. I listened for maybe an hour, some horrible harshness, a bit of screeching, so I just put them away, was disgusted with the purchase. However, I wanted to give them 10 hours or so before I returned them, and I have since passed that 10 hours, and they are doing just fine. A lot of the bad things just went away with another hour or 2, and now, they are near dead silent. I will say, the pins are a bit picky, I have to move one of them around a bit, otherwise it finds a way to induce some scratching sounds.
  
 To be expected with very old tubes though. So give the NU a bit of time before you judge them. You might have also really gotten a bad batch. No matter what quality anything is, there is always a bad one or 2 when you make a ton of it.
  
 edit: Very jealous of your collection Tony. Glad you are getting the elrogs  Very interested to see which of the NU or TS you prefer with them.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> I have given all of my NOS NUs a few minutes in my WA6 this evening - 7 pairs - 6 pairs from Italy and 1 pair from another seller - every one of them sound pretty good right out of the box.


 
 Thanks for letting me know how the rest of the tubes you purchased worked out.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for letting me know how the rest of the tubes you purchased worked out.


 
  
 Had to check them for my own sanity. Nothing worse than spending significant coin for stuff that doesn't work.


----------



## Stereolab42

porteroso said:


> Just a note, I have not bought any tubes from that particular guy, but when I got my second pair of NU VT-99, I did think it was a bad pair at first. I listened for maybe an hour, some horrible harshness, a bit of screeching, so I just put them away, was disgusted with the purchase. However, I wanted to give them 10 hours or so before I returned them, and I have since passed that 10 hours, and they are doing just fine. A lot of the bad things just went away with another hour or 2, and now, they are near dead silent. I will say, the pins are a bit picky, I have to move one of them around a bit, otherwise it finds a way to induce some scratching sounds.
> 
> To be expected with very old tubes though. So give the NU a bit of time before you judge them. You might have also really gotten a bad batch. No matter what quality anything is, there is always a bad one or 2 when you make a ton of it.
> 
> edit: Very jealous of your collection Tony. Glad you are getting the elrogs  Very interested to see which of the NU or TS you prefer with them.


 
  
 I gave some of the bad ones I bought more than 24 hours burn-in with no change (the ones that weren't attempting to actively damage headphones, that is). I'm glad other people are happy, but it did not work out for me with that seller.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Had to check them for my own sanity. Nothing worse than spending significant coin for stuff that doesn't work.


 
 +1


----------



## joseph69

I'm waiting for a seller to reply to an offer I made to split 4 1942 NIB/NOS NU-6F8G-VT99 tubes.
 If not, is anyone interested in splitting the 4…1-pair each?


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> I'm waiting for a seller to reply to an offer I made to split [COLOR=FF0000]4 1942 NIB/NOS NU-6F8G-VT99 tubes.[/COLOR]
> If not, is anyone interested in splitting the 4…1-pair each?


Is it your plan to use the 6F8G's with the Brimar rectifier?


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Is it your plan to use the 6F8G's with the Brimar rectifier?


 
 Yes, or the 596.
 The seller contacted me and can't split the 4 pairs…but the seller is Tubemaze and they have 6 pairs for sale on eBay,which I didn't see, so I'm going to buy a pair.
  
 Have you heard the Brimar yet…or the 6F8G?


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I just checked about 7 tube distributors, and no one has the NU's, but I did find some RCA and Sylvania's, but would like to hear the NU from the comment on H-F.


 
 The Sylvania 6F8G is suppose to be very average sounding. The RCA's are very nice.

 I have tried two versions of RCA 6F8G (round and flat plate) and the NU 6F8G.
 Tony has the Sylvania, RCA (round), Tung-Sol (round) and NU 6F8G.
  
 This is how I ranked the drive tubes in a conversation with Tony (worst first to best). Might be a good point of reference. Tony and my taste tend to lean a bit towards warm. Not neutral. So be warned.
  
 Sylvania 6SN7 GTA or B. Dog crap. Give up on tubes. Slit your wrists type of tube.
 RCA 6SN7 Greyglass or Clear. Now we are talking. Very obvious treble roll tho.
 RCA 6F8G round plate close together. Now we are talking without treble roll.
 TS or RCA 6F8G flat plate the same as RCA 6SN7 plates. Another stage up. Great all rounder. Treats everything with respect. Very neutral.
 TS 6F8G round plate. ???? (I haven't tried. Tony has)
 NU 6F8G round plates with a big gap. Sell ya soul to the devil tube. Everything treated sweetly with a massive soundstage.


----------



## MIKELAP

Hey guys need some imput regarding the WA22 already have WA2 and WA6  what is interesting in the WA22 is running 6AS7, 6SN7 and  a Rectifier. it seems from what i read that theres not that much of a difference between WA2 and WA22 . and what would that amp be worth its 4 years old (2011)and with no tubes amp alone . Thanks


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> Yes, or the 596.
> The seller contacted me and can't split the 4 pairs…but the seller is Tubemaze and they have 6 pairs for sale on eBay,which I didn't see, so I'm going to buy a pair.
> 
> Have you heard the Brimar yet…or the 6F8G?


Joseph, I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to listen to either the Brimar Rec or the NU 6F8G's. I've been consumed with my ever so 6 and a half months pregnant girlfriend. Her parents stopped by my house for a visit, read inspection, yesterday. The gf pointed out my hp rig and for some reason mentioned the list price of my RS1's. Now her parents not only think I'm nuts for having a kid with their daughter, but I'm obviously frivolous with money as well. Honestly I'd like to hear your impressions of the 6F8G's and the Brimar compared to your 596/6SN7 combo.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Sylvania 6SN7 GTA or B. Dog crap. Give up on tubes. Slit your wrists type of tube.


 
 I have some NOS/NIB Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's which I find sound very good which my WA6.
 I also have the Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys which I also like…and some NOS/NIB RCA Red Base 5692's.
 Anyway, I just ordered a pair of these from Tubemaze to check out.
 Now I need to place an order from Glenn for the adapters.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I have some NOS/NIB Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's which I find sound very good which my WA6.
> I also have the Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys which I also like…and some NOS/NIB RCA Red Base 5692's.
> Anyway, I just ordered a pair of these from Tubemaze to check out.
> Now I need to place an order from Glenn for the adapters.


 

 Yeah. I knew I might get a bit of stick for that. Rightly so.
  
 My taste leans towards warm even dark. I even listen darker than Tony. Hence my LCD3c's. The Sylvania tube I would classify as a detail tube. Lots of treble detail. Those tubes tend to be too bright for my ears. I can't handle for long. Hence my comments. Remember the conversation started as a chat with Tony. So take it as a grain of salt. I know there are fans of that tube. The Sylvania Bad Boys I have not tried. RCA red base 5692 is a nice tube and more towards my taste.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Yeah. I knew I might get a bit of stick for that. Rightly so.
> 
> My taste leans towards warm even dark. I even listen darker than Tony. Hence my LCD3c's. The Sylvania tube I would classify as a detail tube. Lots of treble detail. Those tubes tend to be too bright for my ears. I can't handle for long. Hence my comments. Remember the conversation started as a chat with Tony. So take it as a grain of salt. I know there are fans of that tube. The Sylvania Bad Boys I have not tried. RCA red base 5692 is a nice tube and more towards my taste.


 
 No stick at all, everyone hears/likes differently, and I'm a detail freak! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Are the 6F8G's a dark sounding tube???
 I'll be using them with the UE-596/Brimar 5Z4G.
 Thanks.


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> I have some NOS/NIB Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's which I find sound very good which my WA6.
> I also have the Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys which I also like…and some NOS/NIB RCA Red Base 5692's.
> Anyway, I just ordered a pair of these from [COLOR=FF0000]Tubemaze[/COLOR] to check out.
> Now I need to place an order from Glenn for the adapters.


Which adapter would you be looking for, a 6F8G to 6SN7? Cause I saw a couple on eBay. Did you see the Tung Sol 6F8G's from 1942 on eBay? They're kinda pricey. Is it rarity or quality that makes these NOS/NIB tubes so spendy?


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Have you heard the Brimar yet…or the 6F8G?


 
  
 Not using your amp. However that is what I'm running now. Brimar 5Z4GY, NU 6F8G's plus neutral power tubes 6080. The sound is lovely. Best sound from this amp yet. The NU's just treat treble so nicely. I was really surprised at the soundstage. It left me floored. I use LCD3's which are really not known for soundstage. Even has a bad reputation for it. Boy did they open up to standards I did not think possible.


mikelap said:


> Hey guys need some imput regarding the WA22 already have WA2 and WA6  what is interesting in the WA22 is running 6AS7, 6SN7 and  a Rectifier. it seems from what i read that theres not that much of a difference between WA2 and WA22 . and what would that amp be worth its 4 years old (2011)and with no tubes amp alone . Thanks


 
  
 I listened to the stock WA2 and WA22 near the same time. I could hear a difference. To me it was the power difference. Depending on the headphones the WA22's power might not be required. However on my LCD3's the WA22 had more body and did everything with ease. Obviously with the tubes I have rolled now the WA22 sounds way different to stock.
  
 I couldn't put a price on the 4 year old WA22. Not in your market.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> No stick at all, everyone hears/likes differently, and I'm a detail freak!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No they are not. That RCA 5692 or any of the RCA 6SN7's are dark.
 All the 6F8G's let all detail through. They sound more open than the 6SN7 types. Almost like they breathe (I hope you know what I mean).
  
 Those rectifiers will be a killer combo. 5Z4GY and NU6F8G's are end game for me. I've stocked up and I am done.


----------



## Badas

bpcans said:


> Which adapter would you be looking for, a 6F8G to 6SN7? Cause I saw a couple on eBay. Did you see the Tung Sol 6F8G's from 1942 on eBay? They're kinda pricey. Is it rarity or quality that makes these NOS/NIB tubes so spendy?


 
  
 These did the job well and are well made. It is what Tony and myself are using now.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-plated-6F8G-6C8G-TO-6SN7-6SL7-tube-adapter-/200905127802?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec6e0f77a
  
 I think the Glenn adapters are better tho. Glenn is making some for Tony and myself right now.
  
 Don't look at the TS 6F8G RP's (round plate) as expensive. They are cheap. Just look up the TS 6SN7 RP price and you will realize. They can be $800 +. The TS 6F8G RP is basically the same tube.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Which adapter would you be looking for, a 6F8G to 6SN7? Cause I saw a couple on eBay. Did you see the Tung Sol 6F8G's from 1942 on eBay? They're kinda pricey. Is it rarity or quality that makes these NOS/NIB tubes so spendy?


 
 The adapters you see on Bay are the adapters I would need, but I'm not interested in them because I know Glenn makes some very nice adapters, so I'm going to get them from him. I have his 596 adapter and I have Woo's 595 adapter also, and Glenn's is a *much* better fit. I tried the Woo adapter one time then put it back in the box incase of an emergency. I did see the TS's, but being I've never heard any 6F8G's, I'm going to go with what I'm reading on the forums from @TonyNewman and @Badas…I guess the NU's are the cream of the crop? The NU's are also from 1942.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> No they are not. That RCA 5692 or any of the RCA 6SN7's are dark.
> All the 6F8G's let all detail through. They sound more open than the 6SN7 types. Almost like they breathe (I hope you know what I mean).
> 
> Those rectifiers will be a killer combo. 5Z4GY and NU6F8G's are end game for me. I've stocked up and I am done.


 
 Thanks for the info, I appreciate it…can't wait too hear this combo!


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> …I guess the NU's are the cream of the crop? The NU's are also from 1942.


 
  
 It's a toss up between the 6F8G TS RP and NUs for me. It comes down to personal preference, I think. Both are superb, but the NU adds more to the sound with a sweetness that does great things, particularly for vocals. If you prefer a more neutral presentation, or you already have plenty added to the sound from other tubes in the mix, then the TS RP might be a better choice.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> It's a toss up between the 6F8G TS RP and NUs for me. It comes down to personal preference, I think. Both are superb, but the NU adds more to the sound with a sweetness that does great things, particularly for vocals. If you prefer a more neutral presentation, or you already have plenty added to the sound from other tubes in the mix, then the TS RP might be a better choice.


 
 Sounds like I would prefer the NU for the sweet vocals.
 Thank you!


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> It's a toss up between the 6F8G TS RP and NUs for me. It comes down to personal preference, I think. Both are superb, but the NU adds more to the sound with a sweetness that does great things, particularly for vocals. If you prefer a more neutral presentation, or you already have plenty added to the sound from other tubes in the mix, then the TS RP might be a better choice.


 

 Thanks for chiming in Tony. Glad the NU's worked out fine.
  
 Mine should be here any day now and are likely from the same batch. So all should be good.
  
 Have you tried the Sylvania 6F8G yet? I wonder how that stacks up?
  
 From what I have listened to there seems to be two different levels and the TS and NU are at the top. The two RCA variants are nice (nicer than the 6SN7's) however not in the same game.


----------



## Porteroso

By the way, on the note of adapters... If anyone is going to ask Glenn to make some adapters for the WA6, we might as well get him to make several pairs at the same time. Especially if he will make a few pairs of 6DE7 -> 6F8G adapters, which will save us all a set of adapters. Otherwise, we need 6DE7 -> 6SN7 -> 6F8G, which is 2 sets of adapters. That would be most beneficial, to just have 1 set. So Joseph, let me know if you're interested in the same thing. It would save Glenn some effort and time if he just had to make these things once. I would be willing to bet too, that he could make 10 pairs, and sell them all within a month, if people in this thread knew about it.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Thanks for chiming in Tony. Glad the NU's worked out fine.
> 
> Mine should be here any day now and are likely from the same batch. So all should be good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any tube that shares the same internals as the 6SN7 Sylvania goes to the bottom of my 'to try' list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have a bunch of nice 6F8Gs to try and burn in - unlikely I will ever torture myself by plugging a Sylvania into any amp ever again - unless I want to hurt myself. I know some folks like these tubes - I just don't. YMMV.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Any tube that shares the same internals as the 6SN7 Sylvania goes to the bottom of my 'to try' list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I get what you are saying however it could sound different. I didn't realize it had the same internals.
  
 One RCA 6F8G (flat plates) that I have also has the same internals as the RCA 6SN7. However they sound completely different. Not even the same ball park.
  
 Probably worth trying the Sylvania. Even just in the WA6.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I get what you are saying however it could sound different. I didn't realize it had the same internals.
> 
> One RCA 6F8G (flat plates) that I have also has the same internals as the RCA 6SN7. However they sound completely different. Not even the same ball park.
> 
> Probably worth trying the Sylvania. Even just in the WA6.


 
  
 You have convinced me - will give them a shot this evening and see what happens.
  
 They can't sound any worse than Sylvania 6SN7s, I guess


----------



## joseph69

PM sent.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Any tube that shares the same internals as the 6SN7 Sylvania goes to the bottom of my 'to try' list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed, horrible things, don't do anything well, its the old look at Ma's ankles, its just not right to think its going to get any better.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Agreed, horrible things, don't do anything well, its the old look at Ma's ankles, its just not right to think its going to get any better.


 

 love it. Okay we won't bring that one into the mix. I never liked the 6SN7 variant.
  
 I just thought the RCA improved on the 6F8G. However that was nice as a 6SN7 as well.


----------



## isquirrel

This one is aimed squarely at you Tony, you know what you have done, talking up the Moon, man you know there are addicts that hang out in public places.... That's all I am saying......


----------



## isquirrel

Hmm feeling a bit testy today, already had a domestic over making noise (putting the washing on) when I am listening to music, how incredibly inconsiderate.
  
 And then Preproman copped it over on the Moon forum, were are not on p***ing contest or money.com, really... its all bout the music dude. Cough, well its a bit about the equipment, just a bit.


----------



## joseph69

WOW!
 I can't believe the hate for the Sylvania 6SN7…I happen to really like these tubes with the WA6.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Hmm feeling a bit testy today, already had a domestic over making noise (putting the washing on) when I am listening to music, how incredibly inconsiderate.
> 
> And then Preproman copped it over on the Moon forum, were are not on p***ing contest or money.com, really... its all bout the music dude. Cough, well its a bit about the equipment, just a bit.


 

 Go back to the WA234. It should sooth things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Counting down the hours until I finish work. Wizz home and fire up the WA22. Wednesday nights are my don't do anything night.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Go back to the WA234. It should sooth things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same here !!! 
  
 Wednesday is the Island in the middle of the week.
  
 New batch of Elrog's turn up today. Burn baby burn.


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> WOW!
> I can't believe the hate for the Sylvania 6SN7…I happen to really like these tubes with the WA6.


 

 Its not hate, its the dustbin, no seriously its personal preference they don't do it for me, YMMV .
  
 I've heard just about every variant and some of them (bad boys) etc are not cheap, IMHO you can do better for the $.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> This one is aimed squarely at you Tony, you know what you have done, talking up the Moon, man you know there are addicts that hang out in public places.... That's all I am saying......


 
  
 I moonlight as a crack dealing outside schools...
  
 You'll thank me later. It's an outstanding SS headphone amp (and preamp, if you use it for such).
  
 I think it scales well with better DACs - the oboard option is good, but it can go further with better hardware. Please share how it sounds with the DaVinci if you do that hook up (stunning DAC by all the reviews I have read, by the way).


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> Its not hate, its the dustbin, no seriously its personal preference they don't do it for me, YMMV .
> 
> I've heard just about every variant and some of them (bad boys) etc are not cheap, IMHO you can do better for the $.


 
 Will agree…they weren't exactly inexpensive. And yes, it is a personal preference.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I moonlight as a crack dealing outside schools...
> 
> You'll thank me later. *It's an outstanding SS headphone amp* (and preamp, if you use it for such).
> 
> I think it scales well with better DACs - the oboard option is good, but it can go further with better hardware. Please share how it sounds with the DaVinci if you do that hook up (stunning DAC by all the reviews I have read, by the way).


 

 I concur. The 430HA is the best sounding SS headphone amp I have heard. If I owned I would walk away from tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Its not hate, its the dustbin, no seriously its personal preference they don't do it for me, YMMV .
> 
> I've heard just about every variant and some of them (bad boys) etc are not cheap, IMHO you can do better for the $.


 
  
 I had about 4 6SN7 Sylvania Chrome Domes. All binned along with my Psvane T2 CV-181s, Shuguang BTs, Russian 6SN7s, Sophia 6SN7s, EH 6SN7s, Full Music 6SN7s and an assosrtment of other failed driver tube experiments. All crap compared to the 6F8G NUs and TS RPs. Nothing else I have tried measures up. I have some RCA 6SN7s and RCA 6F8Gs on hand in case of a truly desperate situation. Everything else went into the bin.
  
 I have not heard the Brimar 6SN7s - they might be golden, I have no idea. So far the NUs and TS RPs are the only drivers I have heard that that make my amps sing.
  
 Thinking of my WA5 and the impact of the various tubes - rectifier / driver / output is something like 30 / 40 / 30. The driver tubes make the biggest difference to the SQ, and often appear to get the least attention. Not sure that split is right - might be more like 25 / 50 / 25. The drivers are the peg that the SQ hangs from, at least for the WA5.
  
 WA6 I would characterise as something like - rectifier / drivers in the ratio 40 / 60 or perhaps 30 / 70 for SQ impact.
  
 None of this is exact, just making the point that drivers don't seem to get the lovin that they should.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I concur. The 430HA is the best sounding SS headphone amp I have heard. If I owned I would walk away from tubes.


 
  
 I was seriously heading down that road - why bother with tubes? - then I heard what the *best *drivers could do for a tube amp. The 6F8G NUs and TS RPs have turned me back onto tubes when I was seriously thinking of walking away.
  
 The 430HA is stunningly good, and it takes a top tier (or close to it) tube complement in the WA5 to compete with it IMHO, starting the drivers.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I had about 4 6SN7 Sylvania Chrome Domes. All binned along with my Psvane T2 CV-181s, Shuguang BTs, Russian 6SN7s, Sophia 6SN7s, EH 6SN7s, Full Music 6SN7s and an assosrtment of other failed driver tube experiments. All crap compared to the 6F8G NUs and TS RPs. Nothing else I have tried measures up. I have some RCA 6SN7s and RCA 6F8Gs on hand in case of a truly desperate situation. Everything else went into the bin.
> 
> I have not heard the Brimar 6SN7s - they might be golden, I have no idea. So far the NUs and TS RPs are the only drivers I have heard that that make my amps sing.
> 
> ...


 

 Totally agree.
  
 I shake my head at all the variants of new production very good power tubes and rectifiers, when there are none for decent driver tubes and I am absolutely not going to say anything about the Pis 181's. Whoever did that write up about how good they were a while ago in the press and preferred them to the TS or Brimars well one can only assume he had bumped into you mate lurking about with your side business !
  
 Decent driver tubes are running out, they don't last anywhere as long (5,000 hours) as good rectifiers or power tubes. In every amp I have heard they make the biggest difference, they define your sound. Yes its nice to have decent 300B's etc but it starts with the drivers.
  
 BTW I have a nice pair of the "recommended Brimars, (Black Glass) they have a good euphonic mid range, but are polite and restricted at the other frequencies. Nothing to go berserk over + hard to find decent one's and they are expensive.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> I shake my head at all the variants of new production very good power tubes and rectifiers, when there are none for decent driver tubes and I am absolutely not going to say anything about the Pis 181's. Whoever did that write up about how good they were a while ago in the press and preferred them to the TS or Brimars well one can only assume he had bumped into you mate lurking about with your side business !
> 
> ...


 
  
 Makes me wonder what is going to happen to the hobby unless a Takatsuki or an Elrog makes a 6SN7. Not sure they are interested in that part of the market, but the sexy 274Bs and 300Bs and 845s are meaningless without the drivers.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> WA6 I would characterise as something like - rectifier / drivers in the ratio 40 / 60 or perhaps 30 / 70 for SQ impact.
> 
> None of this is exact, just making the point that drivers don't seem to get the lovin that they should.


 
  IMO/IME I've always thought that the driver tubes impacted the sound of the WA6 more than the rectifier tube myself.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Makes me wonder what is going to happen to the hobby unless a Takatsuki or an Elrog makes a 6SN7. Not sure they are interested in that part of the market, but the sexy 274Bs and 300Bs and 845s are meaningless without the drivers.


 
 No chance of either of them making a driver tube for a few years from what I hear.
  
 I understand that that most of the good stocks of driver tubes are hiding in Greece. When/if I find out where, suggest a Black Ops job with you Badas & Matt. I quite fancy the whole plot. From what I hear Matt looks quite good in make up & you & Badas, well you've got the whole velcro thing going for you


----------



## isquirrel

BTW Tony what's you thinking about proper procedure about Elrog burn in? Given the theorated Tungsten elements.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> BTW Tony what's you thinking about proper procedure about Elrog burn in? Given the theorated Tungsten elements.


 
  
  
 I'll be running them only when I am around, in bursts of a few hours, 4 to 8 would be ideal, I think.
  
 Does Elrog give some guidance? The word from the manufacturer would be more worthy than any speil I can spit out


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> In every amp I have heard they make the biggest difference, they define your sound. Yes its nice to have decent 300B's etc but it starts with the drivers.


 
  
 On the low-end (if anyone cares) this is true, as well. The imaging, separation, soundstage is all the drivers from what I've experienced.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> No chance of either of them making a driver tube for a few years from what I hear.
> 
> I understand that that most of the good stocks of driver tubes are hiding in Greece. When/if I find out where, suggest a Black Ops job with you Badas & Matt. I quite fancy the whole plot. From what I hear Matt looks quite good in make up & you & Badas, well you've got the whole velcro thing going for you


 
  
 And unlimited Souvlaki and Uzo afterwards...


----------



## isquirrel

On the phone with the Elrog distributor, he is happy to see them run for 4-6 hours on initial burn in, then once past the 50 hour mark go for it. Main thing is DO NOT move them or touch them for at least 15-30 minutes after power off. They are designed to be well used.
  
 No EML Mesh Plate run in pandering with these.
  
 SOP for all tubes really.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> On the phone with the Elrog distributor, he is happy to see them run for 4-6 hours on initial burn in, then once past the 50 hour mark go for it. Main thing is DO NOT move them or touch them for at least 15-30 minutes after power off. They are designed to be well used.
> 
> No EML Mesh Plate run in pandering with these.
> 
> SOP for all tubes really.


 
  
 Good to know - thanks for sharing


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> No chance of either of them making a driver tube for a few years from what I hear.
> 
> I understand that that most of the good stocks of driver tubes are hiding in Greece. When/if I find out where, suggest a Black Ops job with you Badas & Matt. I quite fancy the whole plot. From what I hear Matt looks quite good in make up & you & Badas, well you've got the whole velcro thing going for you :tongue_smile:




I'm in. 

You can be the sneaky ninja squirrel and then I will open a can of Badas. 

Tony and Matt are get away drivers.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ...
> I shake my head at all the variants of new production very good power tubes and rectifiers, when there are none for decent driver tubes and I am absolutely not going to say anything about the Pis 181's. Whoever did that write up about how good they were a while ago in the press and preferred them to the TS or Brimars well one can only assume he had bumped into you mate lurking about with your side business !...


 
  
 I have to admit some culpability here. Before I knew what a top driver sounded like I was quite impressed with the Psvane T2 CV-181s. In some ways they are impressive - balance, extension, detail, speed - they are superb - but they lack any hint of warmth or character. They make Sylvanias sound dark in comparison. They are so dry that they can easily drift into harshness without careful pairing with warm tubes. I got away with using them paired in the WA6/WA5 with the Psvane WE274B replica rectifier - a very dark tube - but pairing them with a more neutral rectifier (like the Brimar) would be about as much fun as stuffing your gonads into a bacon slicer.
  
 Psvane got close with the T2 CV-181. If they could just add some warmth to the tube it might amount to something, as it is - no. Much, much too pricey for what it delivers.


----------



## Fririce0003

badas said:


> I'm in.
> 
> You can be the sneaky ninja squirrel and then I will open a can of Badas.
> 
> Tony and Matt are get away drivers.




Aww man, I was looking forward to breaking some arms and legs... I guess I'll have to rely on my Asian driving skills instead, worth it for a couple more sets of TSRP's!


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Aww man, I was looking forward to breaking some arms and legs... I guess I'll have to rely on my Asian driving skills instead, worth it for a couple more sets of TSRP's!


 
  
 Now that's an interesting question - what _*wouldn't*_ you do for a caseload of bright and shiny NIB TS RPs?
  
 Something involving multiple dead bodies and wood chipper _might _deter me. Maybe.
  

  
 In order to get some...
  

  
 Hmmmm.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> Now that's an interesting question - what _*wouldn't*_ you do for a caseload of bright and shiny NIB TS RPs?
> 
> Something involving multiple dead bodies and wood chipper _might_ deter me. Maybe.




Key word being 'might' 
 Wood chipper is far too much mess, I know plenty of new construction sites going up, 15m deep in the concrete slab of a lift shaft is the perfect hiding spot....


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Key word being 'might'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice. I like how your mind works...


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Aww man, I was looking forward to breaking some arms and legs... I guess I'll have to rely on my Asian driving skills instead, worth it for a couple more sets of TSRP's!


 

 Thanks for the kind offer.. I have been in car with you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we don't want to end up on a middle eastern desert movie set dressed in Orange. We would all have sense of humour failure 
  

  
 The squirrel is on it


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Thanks for the kind offer.. I have been in car with you :rolleyes:  we don't want to end up on a middle eastern desert movie set dressed in Orange. We would all have sense of humour failure
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Hahaha, I think I'd opt for your driving as well. Not sure how well the tubes would deal with mine!


----------



## Stax-i-nox

I agree...with my WA5+Elrog's...the whole sound picture changed when I changed the 6sn7's...did not hear such a change with my K1000, as I did with these new Grand Teton SE speakers...it was very evident in the tone, depth of soundstage etc.


----------



## isquirrel

New Elrog's are in, 4 hours in and sounding very good, no issues with bass performance.
  
 Spec charts are now included and build quality is superb.
  
 I am liking what I am hearing.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> New Elrog's are in, 4 hours in and sounding very good, no issues with bass performance.
> 
> Spec charts are now included and build quality is superb.
> 
> I am liking what I am hearing.


 
  
 Excellent. I think mine must be on a slow boat from Deutschland to NZ.


----------



## effles

I picked up a Wa3 earlier today from Bonsey Jonsey, couldn't be happier. Sounds pretty fantastic with the stock tubes, but I'll be picking up some new ones over the next couple of week.
  
 Excuse the crappy colours on the camera.


----------



## Badas

I have received my first few sets of NU's from the Italian supplier. I will throw them in and test tonight.
  
 I am wrestling with a noisy power tube at the moment. So hopefully it won't distract.
  
 What is it with 6080 / 6AS7G power tubes? It is nice that Woo designs amps around popular easy to get tubes. However they are a real gamble if you get quiet noise free versions.
  
 Here is my history of them:
  
 Tung-Sol 7236 = Quiet
 GE 6080 = Quiet
 Sylvania 6080 (2 sets) = Both noisy
 Bendix 6080 Graphite plates = Quiet
 Mullard 6080 = Noisy
 RCA 6AS7G (4 sets) = 3 sets noisy, 1 set quiet but with a hum
 Raytheon 6AS7G (2 sets) = 1 set noisy, 1 set with hum
 Sylvania 6AS7G = Quiet with hum
 Svetlana 6AS7G (9 sets) = 2 sets quiet, 7 sets noisy
 Tung-Sol 6AS7G = Quiet with hum
 Chatham Tung-Sol 6AS7G (3 sets) = Quiet
  
 Not a very good track record. 8 quiet, 4 quiet with a background hum, 14 noisy. That is more than 50% noisy. I am getting very annoyed at buying noisy 6080/6AS7G tubes.
  
 If anyone knows of a nice reasonable priced 6080 type tube that is nice sounding (doesn't have to be the best) but quiet please tell me.


----------



## Badas

effles said:


> I picked up a Wa3 earlier today from Bonsey Jonsey, couldn't be happier. Sounds pretty fantastic with the stock tubes, but I'll be picking up some new ones over the next couple of week.
> 
> Excuse the crappy colours on the camera.


 
 Sorry. I posted directly after you. Congrats. Great looking amp. WA3 is sooooooo cute. I need to pick up one for in the lounge.
  
 P.S. don't put those liquid tubes in. Don't think they will work very well.


----------



## effles

badas said:


> Sorry. I posted directly after you. Congrats. Great looking amp. WA3 is sooooooo cute. I need to pick up one for in the lounge.
> 
> P.S. don't put those liquid tubes in. Don't think they will work very well.


 
 Cheers!
  
 Hahaha, I wasn't planning on it, looking at a pair of TK E88CC and a Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## MIKELAP

Just got my hands on a nice Black WA22 finally ill have my 6as7 6sn7 and Rectifier at the same address. WOO OOO !! A few pictures of course .


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> I picked up a Wa3 earlier today from Bonsey Jonsey, couldn't be happier. Sounds pretty fantastic with the stock tubes, but I'll be picking up some new ones over the next couple of week.
> 
> Excuse the crappy colours on the camera.


 
  
 Congrats... Welcome to the OTL + HD-650 club; as you've already discovered, the water's warm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 BTW, in reference to your earlier PMs, there are some WE 421a tubes on eBay; you know, in case you have excess cash lying around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Also, please let us know how things work out with tube depot and the Telefunken E88CC-TK - even with the stock 6080 power tube, it will be $90 US well spent.


----------



## Krutsch

mikelap said:


> Just got my hands on a nice Black WA22 finally ill have my 6as7 6sn7 and Rectifier at the same address. WOO OOO !! A few pictures of course .


 
  
 Very jealous... beautiful amp!


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Just got my hands on a nice Black WA22 finally ill have my 6as7 6sn7 and Rectifier at the same address. WOO OOO !! A few pictures of course .


 
  
 So very nice. Welcome to the WA22 club. You got the right colour as well.
  
 Did they come with those tubes? They are good tubes.
 I notice the Tung-Sol 7236. I have a set of those. I think I will roll them back in as I have had bad luck with 6080's of late.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Just got my hands on a nice Black WA22 finally ill have my 6as7 6sn7 and Rectifier at the same address. WOO OOO !! A few pictures of course .
> ...


 
 Thanks .Nope ive got plenty of my own lol . Anybody need a WA6 by any chance check out the FOR SALE FORUM .Thanks


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> Congrats... Welcome to the OTL + HD-650 club; as you've already discovered, the water's warm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cheers! I'm actually in the UK, so finding tubes is a bit of a hassle. I found a Tung Sol 5998 for £90 so I'll probably pick that up. I also found a matched pair of E88CC's but they're £190, pretty steep IMO.
  
 It says on tube depot that the TK tubes are sold singly, would there be a big difference between buying two unmatched TK's to a matched pair? The unmatched ones on tube depot are much, much cheaper than the matched ebay pair.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Thanks .Nope ive got plenty of my own lol . Anybody need a WA6 by any chance check out the FOR SALE FORUM .Thanks


 

 It will be interesting to see what tubes you end up with. Say 6 months from now.
  
 I have ended up on Brimar 5Z4GY, NU 6F8G and power tubes undecided. Working on it.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks .Nope ive got plenty of my own lol . Anybody need a WA6 by any chance check out the FOR SALE FORUM .Thanks
> ...


 
 Already have those will try them for shure along with the 5998's see how they sound .


----------



## GrindingThud

I've been perfectly happy with unmatched tubes in the WA3. Just make sure you have same brand/type.


effles said:


> Cheers! I'm actually in the UK, so finding tubes is a bit of a hassle. I found a Tung Sol 5998 for £90 so I'll probably pick that up. I also found a matched pair of E88CC's but they're £190, pretty steep IMO.
> 
> It says on tube depot that the TK tubes are sold singly, would there be a big difference between buying two unmatched TK's to a matched pair? The unmatched ones on tube depot are much, much cheaper than the matched ebay pair.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Already have those will try them for shure along with the 5998's see how they sound .


 

 Please tell me about the 5998 and that combo.
  
 I'm such a cheap ass I've been mucking around with cheap 6080 / 6AS7G power tubes. Like I posted earlier over half have been noisy.
 I suppose that if I wasn't a cheap ass I wouldn't have found the 5Z4GY.
  
 I'm now kinda thinking of just spending the $$'s on the 5998 or the 7236 direct from Woo (where I got my set I have now). I have secured cheap rectifiers and drive tubes I might as well spend on power tubes.


----------



## effles

grindingthud said:


> I've been perfectly happy with unmatched tubes in the WA3. Just make sure you have same brand/type.


 
 What a strange coincidence, I was literally just reading this thread with some very impressive mods by yourself. Thanks for the info, I'll almost certainly order the unmatched tubes from the US then and save myself ~£100.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Already have those will try them for shure along with the 5998's see how they sound .
> ...


 
 For shure, but what i can tell you about the 5998  is that its not the end of the world when i heard those my head didnt explode or anything subtility's subtility's for me anyways .


----------



## GrindingThud

If you can find them, 6080WA (TS or Chatham) with the little metal mica supports were always quiet for me:



badas said:


> Please tell me about the 5998 and that combo.
> 
> I'm such a cheap ass I've been mucking around with cheap 6080 / 6AS7G power tubes. Like I posted earlier over half have been noisy.
> I suppose that if I wasn't a cheap ass I wouldn't have found the 5Z4GY.
> ...


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> Cheers! I'm actually in the UK, so finding tubes is a bit of a hassle. I found a Tung Sol 5998 for £90 so I'll probably pick that up. I also found a matched pair of E88CC's but they're £190, pretty steep IMO.
> 
> It says on tube depot that the TK tubes are sold singly, would there be a big difference between buying two unmatched TK's to a matched pair? The unmatched ones on tube depot are much, much cheaper than the matched ebay pair.


 
  
 A Tung Sol 5998 for £90 is a good pick-up, if it's lightly used (i.e. tests NOS).
  
 For the matched pair of E88CCs at  £190 ... I honestly didn't recall them being that much when you select matched pair. I'm not sure it matters that much, but I bought mine matched.
  
 I've tried LOTS of driver tubes and these are really nice sounding (I'm listening to them now). The alternative is NOS drivers and you will spend more ... lots more for a comparable tube.
  
 Just trying to be helpful ...


----------



## joseph69

I can't find 2359Glenn's avatar to send him a PM so I can ask if he will make me 6DE7>6F8G for the WA6.
 How else do you PM some one besides through their avatar? I used the advanced search and can see posts/photos, but don't see how to send a PM? 
 Thank you.


----------



## Krutsch

Acquired a new-in-box Western Electric 421a (see the original padded wrapping material). I've been burning in a set of Tung-Sol 5998 / Chatham 2399 power tubes that I purchased from a follow Head-Fi'er. They are in great shape and sound nice, but when I rolled in the new Westy... ahhhhhh.....


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> Acquired a new-in-box Western Electric 421a (see the original padded wrapping material). I've been burning in a set of Tung-Sol 5998 / Chatham 2399 power tubes that I purchased from a follow Head-Fi'er. They are in great shape and sound nice, but when I rolled in the new Westy... ahhhhhh.....


That is one impressive looking rectifier tube sir. Congrats.


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> A Tung Sol 5998 for £90 is a good pick-up, if it's lightly used (i.e. tests NOS).
> 
> For the matched pair of E88CCs at  £190 ... I honestly didn't recall them being that much when you select matched pair. I'm not sure it matters that much, but I bought mine matched.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I think I'll go with the 5998 and the TK's from tubedepot.
  
 You've been very helpful, thank you!


----------



## magiccabbage

joseph69 said:


> I can't find 2359Glenn's avatar to send him a PM so I can ask if he will make me 6DE7>6F8G for the WA6.
> How else do you PM some one besides through their avatar? I used the advanced search and can see posts/photos, but don't see how to send a PM?
> Thank you.


 

http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn


----------



## teamrushpntball

Hi everyone, I got the joy of listening to a WA6SE with my Sennheiser HD700's this past weekend and am looking into purchasing a Woo Amp. I currently have a Schiit Bifrost and Valhalla 2 but am planning to pick up a pair of LCD2's.  Anyone in this thread mind making a recommendation for a Woo amp that will feed both of these headphones?
  
 I was thinking either the WA7 with WA7tp or the WA2 and keep my Bifrost.  I know the WA2 is OTL, but did seem to receive good reviews with the Audeze cans.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## joseph69

magiccabbage said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn


 
 Thank you very much, I appreciate it!


----------



## magiccabbage

joseph69 said:


> Thank you very much, I appreciate it!


 
 no bother and Glenn is a really nice guy


----------



## Sko0byDoo

teamrushpntball said:


> Hi everyone, I got the joy of listening to a WA6SE with my Sennheiser HD700's this past weekend and am looking into purchasing a Woo Amp.


 
  
 Why not WA6SE?  Since you know how it sounds with the HD700?  WA7 will put out less power than 6SE.


----------



## isquirrel

effles said:


> I picked up a Wa3 earlier today from Bonsey Jonsey, couldn't be happier. Sounds pretty fantastic with the stock tubes, but I'll be picking up some new ones over the next couple of week.
> 
> Excuse the crappy colours on the camera.


 

 Congratulations welcome to the club !


----------



## effles

> Originally Posted by *isquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Congratulations welcome to the club !


 
 Thank you! I'm loving it so far!


----------



## Badas

Okay I said I would test the NU 6F8G's from the Italian supplier. All good. No issues.
  
 I was able to remove the yellow paint from the top if anyone was curious. I just used finger nails. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 I ended up rolling dead quiet power tubes so I could test properly (Bendix 6080 Graphite plates).
 I tested the first set for 2 hours. Nada. Not a squeak that should not be there.
 The second set for 1.5 hours. Same thing. Nada. That set is staying in.
  


  
 Now I can return Tony's NU tubes. Thanks so much Tony. A real asset to this site.


----------



## NoxNoctum

Anyone with a WA-5 wanna comment on how it pairs with LCD-2/3?
  
 I'm thinking of getting WA-5 primarily for HE-6 but if plays well with LCD series that would be nice bonus .
  
 Also, how critical is the "parts upgrade" on the Woo audio site? Looks like I can only do it at time of purchase (unlike tube rolling)


----------



## Badas

noxnoctum said:


> Anyone with a WA-5 wanna comment on how it pairs with LCD-2/3?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting WA-5 primarily for HE-6 but if plays well with LCD series that would be nice bonus .
> 
> Also, how critical is the "parts upgrade" on the Woo audio site? Looks like I can only do it at time of purchase (unlike tube rolling)




I don't own however I have listened to Tony's which has very nice NOS tubes in. I was using my LCD3c's. 

I also used a test track that I was familiar with plus others. The WA5 really makes the Audeze sing beautifully.
I have the WA22 with nice tubes and altho it wasn't side by side testing I believe the WA5 had the edge.

You will not be disappointed.


----------



## Kimakaze

porteroso said:


> By the way, on the note of adapters... If anyone is going to ask Glenn to make some adapters for the WA6, we might as well get him to make several pairs at the same time. Especially if he will make a few pairs of 6DE7 -> 6F8G adapters, which will save us all a set of adapters. Otherwise, we need 6DE7 -> 6SN7 -> 6F8G, which is 2 sets of adapters. That would be most beneficial, to just have 1 set. So Joseph, let me know if you're interested in the same thing. It would save Glenn some effort and time if he just had to make these things once. I would be willing to bet too, that he could make 10 pairs, and sell them all within a month, if people in this thread knew about it.


 
 Have you contacted Glenn about making the adapters?  If so, I will drop him a PM to make me a set of 6DE7 -> 6F8G and a set of 6DE7 -> 6SN7 adapters.  Glenn made me a couple of 596 adapters last fall.


----------



## Fatsosixsixsix

Has anyone used Langrex.co.uk for 6SN7 tubes and can comment on their prices/selection? Otherwise I might drop them an e-mail


----------



## Badas

fatsosixsixsix said:


> Has anyone used Langrex.co.uk for 6SN7 tubes and can comment on their prices/selection? Otherwise I might drop them an e-mail




Tony has. Price good. Selection not great.

They basically have a Russian tube and a Philips. Philips is a rebadged Sylvania.


----------



## Fatsosixsixsix

badas said:


> Tony has. Price good. Selection not great.
> 
> They basically have a Russian tube and a Philips. Philips is a rebadged Sylvania.


 

 That's a shame. People recommend them for the Brimar 5Z4GY so I was looking to get other tubes along with it, in particular one of the original Sylvania variants.


----------



## Badas

fatsosixsixsix said:


> That's a shame. People recommend them for the Brimar 5Z4GY so I was looking to get other tubes along with it, in particular one of the original Sylvania variants.




Yeah. We thought the same thing. Tony thought they might be good for Drivers. Got a set of each in.

I tried them for power tubes. 6080's. Tried a set of Mullard and Brimar (which turned out to be a rebadged Sylvania). Both sets were nice sounding but noisy. Tried a long burn in but there was no improvement.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony has. Price good. Selection not great.
> 
> They basically have a Russian tube and a Philips. Philips is a rebadged Sylvania.


 
  
 Binned both. Not even close to 6F8G NU or TS RP. Waste of time and money.


----------



## Fatsosixsixsix

Guess I'll have to check out Ebay then, knew it was too good finding a UK tube supplier so I could avoid the import tax


----------



## Badas

fatsosixsixsix said:


> Guess I'll have to check out Ebay then, knew it was too good finding a UK tube supplier so I could avoid the import tax




If you do ever find a UK supplier that is siting on nice UK based tubes please let us know. Things like the Osram or GEC 6AS7G's for example.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> If you do ever find a UK supplier that is siting on nice UK based tubes please let us know. Things like the Osram or GEC 6AS7G's for example.


 

 I am going back home in December for a few weeks and will be dropping in on one guy I know has stock of all sorts of tubes. Trouble will be getting him to part with some of them. Last time I was there he told me he had millions in Euro of NOS tubes. Don't know about that but I did walk around the underground warehouse, I was stunned at the stock. 
  
 Its his retirement fund.....


----------



## isquirrel

Selling my LCD-X's Vegan, VGC boxed etc - PM me if anyone is interested.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> I am going back home in December for a few weeks and will be dropping in on one guy I know has stock of all sorts of tubes. Trouble will be getting him to part with some of them. Last time I was there he told me he had millions in Euro of NOS tubes. Don't know about that but I did walk around the underground warehouse, I was stunned at the stock.
> 
> Its his retirement fund.....




Daaaaamn.


----------



## Porteroso

kimakaze said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, on the note of adapters... If anyone is going to ask Glenn to make some adapters for the WA6, we might as well get him to make several pairs at the same time. Especially if he will make a few pairs of 6DE7 -> 6F8G adapters, which will save us all a set of adapters. Otherwise, we need 6DE7 -> 6SN7 -> 6F8G, which is 2 sets of adapters. That would be most beneficial, to just have 1 set. So Joseph, let me know if you're interested in the same thing. It would save Glenn some effort and time if he just had to make these things once. I would be willing to bet too, that he could make 10 pairs, and sell them all within a month, if people in this thread knew about it.
> ...


 

 Joseph is handling the communication with Glenn. I let him know you also want this, but from now on, pm him that is probably the best thing to do.


----------



## wyan

Hi,
  
 New here and this is truly a long thread! Anyhow, I am planning to buy a WA5 and am wondering which current production 300B works best for WA5. My local dealer has EML and Psvane WE300B replica. I am thinking about Elrog also. How would you rate them?
  
 Also, if I am on a tight budget, should I spend money on tube rolling or the caps upgrades (maxxed)? Thanks a lot.
  
  
 WYAN


----------



## Stereolab42

wyan said:


> Hi,
> 
> New here and this is truly a long thread! Anyhow, I am planning to buy a WA5 and am wondering which current production 300B works best for WA5. My local dealer has EML and Psvane WE300B replica. I am thinking about Elrog also. How would you rate them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Caps. You can always get better tubes later, but can't update the parts on a WA5 later.


----------



## isquirrel

wyan said:


> Hi,
> 
> New here and this is truly a long thread! Anyhow, I am planning to buy a WA5 and am wondering which current production 300B works best for WA5. My local dealer has EML and Psvane WE300B replica. I am thinking about Elrog also. How would you rate them?
> 
> ...


 
 100% agree with Stereolab, always get your hard ware at the best level you can as you cannot easily or economically upgrade it later.
  
 BTW Tube Rolling Addiction comes free of charge with Woo amps, so you are set there


----------



## Badas

Has someone got a procedure for cleaning dirty pins they can give me? What is the best way?
  
 Also, Curiosity. I know what JAN means however what does CRC stand for?


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Has someone got a procedure for cleaning dirty pins they can give me? What is the best way?
> 
> Also, Curiosity. I know what JAN means however what does CRC stand for?


 
 I was told to use an eraser to clean the tube pins.
 CRC Press: Cyclic Redundancy Check
 This is what I found under this link under electronics?


----------



## joseph69

CRC is in relation with valve tube codes according to this link.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I was told to use an eraser to clean the tube pins.
> CRC Press: Cyclic Redundancy Check
> This is what I found under this link under electronics?


 
  
  


joseph69 said:


> CRC is in relation with valve tube codes according to this link.


 
  
 Thanks for that dude.
  
 CRC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 I will never remember that.


----------



## billerb1

badas said:


> Has someone got a procedure for cleaning dirty pins they can give me? What is the best way?
> 
> Also, Curiosity. I know what JAN means however what does CRC stand for?


 

 DeoxIT Gold for cleaning pins.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Has someone got a procedure for cleaning dirty pins they can give me? What is the best way?
> 
> Also, Curiosity. I know what JAN means however what does CRC stand for?


 

 Joint Army Navy (JAN), Radio Corp of America (RCA who's manufacturing code is: CRC).


----------



## joseph69

krutsch said:


> Joint Army Navy (JAN), Radio Corp of America (RCA who's manufacturing code is: CRC).


 
 RCA/GE from my search?


----------



## Krutsch

joseph69 said:


> RCA/GE from my search?


 

 Ah... not sure what you mean. I thought that link was humor (a hundred listings of cyclic redundancy check).
  
 I've read that somewhere that it's a manufacturer ID, similar to how JAN-CHM refers to Chatham.


----------



## joseph69

krutsch said:


> Ah... not sure what you mean. I thought that link was humor (a hundred listings of cyclic redundancy check).
> I've read that somewhere that it's a manufacturer ID, similar to how JAN-CHM refers to Chatham.


 
 In one of the links I posted it says at the top before the list of acronyms 
"Cyclic Redundancy Check for valve tube codes"?
I also seen that RCA and GE tubes use this CRC code when I Googled
"What valve tubes use the code CRC"?


----------



## joseph69

Carbon Reduction Commitment ???


----------



## joseph69

Here's something interesting…link


----------



## Badas

Sorry. I opened up a can of worms with the CRC question.



Are these okay to clean tube pins with? We can't get the other suggestion in our country. :rolleyes:


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> Has someone got a procedure for cleaning dirty pins they can give me? What is the best way?
> 
> Also, Curiosity. I know what JAN means however what does CRC stand for?


 
  
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-1158-caig-vacuum-tube-survival-kit.aspx


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Manufacture codes, seemingly from WW2 era
  
GE: *CL* (JAN’ed GE tubes are rather rare)
 Hytron: *CHY* (merger with CBS came after VT-231 designations, hence no 'CBS/Hytron' yet)
 Ken-Rad: *CKR*
 Sylvania: *CHS*
 Raytheon: *CRP*
 RCA: *CRC*
 Tung-Sol: *CTL*
  
 CRC is RCA


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Has someone got a procedure for cleaning dirty pins they can give me? What is the best way?
> 
> Also, Curiosity. I know what JAN means however what does CRC stand for?


 
 If you really want to clean them use sandpaper works very good especially on rectifiers an octal tube  big pins  you wrap it around pin and go up and down and around the pin  i also tried with my Dremel and a rubber conical bit works good for tubes with smaller pins  as you can go all around them but bits dont last very long .


----------



## rosgr63

nic rhodes said:


> Manufacture codes, seemingly from WW2 era
> 
> GE: *CL* (JAN’ed GE tubes are rather rare)
> Hytron: *CHY* (merger with CBS came after VT-231 designations, hence no 'CBS/Hytron' yet)
> ...


 

 The first letter C stands for Contractor (to the military)


----------



## Krutsch

rosgr63 said:


> The first letter C stands for Contractor (to the military)


 
 Ah, finally, some new information


----------



## Oskari

nic rhodes said:


> Manufacture codes, seemingly from WW2 era
> 
> GE: *CL* (JAN’ed GE tubes are rather rare)


 
  
 This was originally a Navy system and earlier than that. They started with two letters and added more when the number of contractors grew.
  
 I believe *CL* = Canadian General Electric (CGE) while *CG* = GE.


----------



## Krutsch

mikelap said:


> If you really want to* clean them use sandpaper works very good especially on rectifiers an octal tube  big pins*  you wrap it around pin and go up and down and around the pin  i also tried with my Dremel and a rubber conical bit works good for tubes with smaller pins  as you can go all around them but bits dont last very long .


 
  
 Genius idea...! Seems obvious, now, but didn't even occur to me.


----------



## rosgr63

A lady's emery board works wonders too.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

rosgr63 said:


> The first letter C stands for Contractor (to the military)


 
   
 Quote:


oskari said:


> This was originally a Navy system and earlier than that. They started with two letters and added more when the number of contractors grew.
> 
> I believe *CL* = Canadian General Electric (CGE) while *CG* = GE.


 
  
 Thanks  both, interesting fine tuning.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Hi Wyan,
  
 I have the first WA5 on the market, bought it back in June, 2007....fantastic headphone amp, AND speaker amp. Using it with the AKG K1000.  Have a new pair of 2 way speakers that sound incredible with the WA5. Grand Teton SE, with 94db sensitivity and 40-27,000 frq response.   www.wavetouchaudio.com  If anyone is looking for reasonable priced speakers with such natural, effortless etc etc etc sound, that are worth _*far*_ more than their cost, these speakers have it. With the WA5, it's pure magic.
  
 I have had *zero performance issues in 8 years with the WA5! * In fact, all the stock tubes still work! 
  
 I have tried the stock Shugang 300b,  EH 300b, JJ Tesla 300b, and now the Elrog 300b....while those others are ok. the Elrog is so far above them as far as clarity, detail, and soundstage are concerned...no question the Elrog is fantastic.  As we all know, tube rolling changes the sound quite a bit, so I would prob go for the upgraded parts first, as was mentioned....one can always tube roll.


----------



## bpcans

I'm more than happy to report that the Brimar GZ34(5Z4GY) in combination with the Sophia Electric 6SN7's in my Woo WA6 on first listening sounds fantastic while auditioning these two cd's that I copped today.  A big thank you to joseph69 for sending me this tube to try. Initially I here good instrument separation and soundstage along with acoustic accuracy and presentation. It sounds a bit more neutral to my ears than the Mighty 596 rectifier tube that I was using, but very nice and pleasing.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

I don't know if anyone has tried these in their Woo Amps, I just got a pair of 5u4g's from www.thetubestore.com for my WA5.  I asked to have them matched, which they did for $5 a tube.  I have read that  there is no need to match rectifier tubes. Is it necessary?  In any case, here is what's marked on both boxes:
  
 A} 28v
 B} 28v
 A{ 403v
 B{ 403v
  
  http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/5U4-Tube-Types/Winged-C-SED-5U4-G-Black-Plate
  
 They sound great with the Elrog's and, believe it or not, with a  matched pair of EH 6sn7 Gold's. http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6SN7-Tube-Types/Electro-Harmonix-6SN7-Gold
  
 The EH's seem to work well with the Elrog's and these SED's...I had  nos Raytheon 6sn7's with the Elrogs, but everything sounded a bit thin, and recessed. Interesting how all these tubes sound so different!


----------



## Oskari

bpcans said:


> GZ34(5Z4GY)


 
  
 You'll have to revise that.


----------



## bpcans

oskari said:


> You'll have to revise that.


Oskari, you'll have to help me out then. I just probably misread the numbers on the side of the tube.


----------



## Oskari

We are talking about the 5Z4GY? That's quite close to the GZ32. Not so close to the GZ34.


----------



## Badas

I have collected a lot of tubes for future use that I do not need right now.

16 sets of drive tubes, 17 rectifiers. Still working on power tubes. All tubes are boxed.

What is the best way to store and where?

Our city (Auckland, New Zealand) can get very humid in summer and cold in winter. I thought a cupboard with a electric cupboard heater will be the best spot. We have one for our linen. Is that best?


----------



## abvolt

With that much invested what about a good tube caddy, That's what we called them in the 70's not sure today, that's what I'd have for so many tubes..


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> I have collected a lot of tubes for future use that I do not need right now.
> 
> 16 sets of drive tubes, 17 rectifiers. Still working on power tubes. All tubes are boxed.
> 
> ...


 

 I would be curious to know this, as well. Two of the WE tubes I have were "stored" in a cardboard box, in a barn in Wisconsin, with no climate control whatsoever for decades; very cold temps in winter and hot in summer.
  
 I have to think that tubes are pretty tough - they are, after all, vacuum sealed glass enclosures.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I would be curious to know this, as well. Two of the WE tubes I have were "stored" in a cardboard box, in a barn in Wisconsin, with no climate control whatsoever for decades; very cold temps in winter and hot in summer.
> 
> I have to think that tubes are pretty tough - they are, after all, vacuum sealed glass enclosures.




Yeah. No doubt they are tuff. It is more the pins I'm worried about. I have a lot of 6F8g type with the pin on top. A few have corrosion that I have carefully cleaned up and tested. I just want to keep them good for use latter on.

What is a tube caddy?


----------



## abvolt

Here's a list of some I found  http://www.ebay.com/bhp/tube-caddy  keep them safe in one of these in a closet, or where ever you like..


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> krutsch said:
> 
> 
> > I would be curious to know this, as well. Two of the WE tubes I have were "stored" in a cardboard box, in a barn in Wisconsin, with no climate control whatsoever for decades; very cold temps in winter and hot in summer.
> ...


 
 That's where i put all my tubes in i have several cases  and you can also buy the interlocking cartons like in the pictures for the smaller tubes


----------



## sprite40

> I here good instrument separation and soundstage


 
  
 It was exactly my first impression along with a set of Westinghouse 6FD7 big bottle in my WA6-SE. I received two of these tubes from *Langrex* yesterday, one as a spare tube, and they sound great for the price.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Anyone have a spare set of TS5998 they are willing to part with and that are known to be noise free in a WA22? One of my Chatham 2399s is super microphonic, even with dampeners. These tubes are too pricey for me to buy again and end up with another noisy pair.


----------



## Brendanz

mikelap said:


> That's where i put all my tubes in i have several cases  and you can also buy the interlocking cartons like in the pictures for the smaller tubes


 
 Love those boxes, where did you get them from ?


----------



## wyan

Thanks everyone for the recommendation on WA5. Also many thanks on the tube advice! I am not in U.S. and I can found a used WA5 locally but not the maxxed version. Not sure if I should try the buy/sell forum.
  
 I have ordered a pair of Elrog 300B on the way. Picked up one Brimar 5Z4GY locally for my DAC (clarity and balance! what a steal!). Too bad my order of 5 units at langrex has not been delivered after 45 days. Hope they are not lost during the transition.
  
 By the way, I am planning to use WA5 to drive lowther/voxativ full range drivers (98DB) and AKG K1000.


----------



## MIKELAP

brendanz said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > That's where i put all my tubes in i have several cases  and you can also buy the interlocking cartons like in the pictures for the smaller tubes
> ...


 
 Here are there Ebay my tube seller flea market the blue case was a para medics case it separates in 2 parts got that for $10.00.


----------



## magiccabbage

stax-i-nox said:


> Hi Wyan,
> 
> I have the first WA5 on the market, bought it back in June, 2007....fantastic headphone amp, AND speaker amp. Using it with the AKG K1000.  Have a new pair of 2 way speakers that sound incredible with the WA5. Grand Teton SE, with 94db sensitivity and 40-27,000 frq response.   www.wavetouchaudio.com  If anyone is looking for reasonable priced speakers with such natural, effortless etc etc etc sound, that are worth _*far*_ more than their cost, these speakers have it. With the WA5, it's pure magic.
> 
> ...


 
 Ill be looking for speakers come summer time - thanks for posting. Have you listened to many other high sensitivity speakers to compare?


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Hi magiccabbage,
  
 I was at a local hi fi store the other day, and heard the Kef LS-50's ...did not even come close, literally and figuratively!  I have a pair of VMPS 40's that are good, but not like these.  Have not heard any mega bucks speakers recently, but I can say this...these are extremely natural sounding speakers....and I've been around live classical music all my life....these come so close to live, it really is amazing, especially at their price point. 
  
 I can safely say, these speakers are "phenomenal".....that's just one positive word that comes to mind.  You would be disappointed to say the least,  if you did not
 give these an audition.  Last night, listening to a choir cd in a church setting, the sound was all around me, so 3d, it was eerie. Listening to Tony Bennet, Elvis Presley, Nora Jones, Eva Cassidy etc,  they were floating in between the speakers with such clarity, it was amazing, without being overly bright etc.  Big Band cd's....huge soundstage behind the speakers, and all around me, depending on the recording venue....placement of instruments etc within that soundstage is right on the money...... Trumpets, horns,  like they should sound live, cymbals, drums, clear!
  
 All these positive attributes have been with the WA5 at 10 watts!   Will be trying SS with an upgraded Threshold S200 and a Lightspeed Passive Attenuator later this weekend
  
 They are without a doubt, very natural, musical, effortless sounding 2 way speakers. What you feed them upstream is important...ANY change is immediately noticed, that's how detailed and real they are. 
  
 Also, I am listening with older equipment, Sony XA7es CD, Aragon D2A Dac, and I am getting this kind of quality sound!


----------



## TonyNewman

WA5 is back from repair and I am about to fire it up give it a listen / run in with the new components.
  
 Some before and after shots:
  
 Before - 2 burst caps and an ugly outcome:
  

  
 After - caps replaced and fuses added to prevent this happening again:
  

  
 The audio repair fellow was very impressed with both the build quality and the components used in the WA5. I get the feeling he enjoyed working on it.
  
 Anyway, will fire this sucker up for a listen shortly.
  
 Happy Days


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Good repair. Is the first circle to the left safety fuses?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Good repair. Is the first circle to the left safety fuses?


 
  
 Exactly. These should blow before caps rupture.
  
 For anyone that has not blown a cap - it is nasty. Oily mess comes out of the cap together with some stinky smoke. Rather unpleasant.
  
 The new caps also look quite a bit physically bigger than the previous ones. Not sure that matters. All I care about is how it sounds (and not have it blow up again).
  
 Righto - time to fire this baby up


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica arrived. Burning in now...


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica arrived. Burning in now...


 
  
 That's a nice rectifier. I have used it in the WA22 before. Great bass from it. Very dynamic.
  
 Evidently needs loads of burn in. So be aware.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> That's a nice rectifier. I have used it in the WA22 before. Great bass from it. Very dynamic.
> 
> Evidently needs loads of burn in. So be aware.


 
  
 Needs lots of hours to get to its best (200+) and is a little dark, but a very nice tube.


----------



## TonyNewman

Repaired WA5 with Brimars, NUs and EAT 300Bs.
  
 The NU brings plenty of tube goodness to the sound for my tastes, so the close to neutral Brimar and EATs are a great match. SQ is excellent, and lets the sweet warmth of the NUs shine without becoming overpowering.
  
 The EATs are an under-rated 300B IMHO. Very detailed with great bass and treble extension - a very good neutral power tube and a great match with the NUs.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> WA5 is back from repair and I am about to fire it up give it a listen / run in with the new components.
> 
> Some before and after shots:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sweet... nice layout work. You found the right repair option and congrats on getting your WA5 back into production.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Sweet... nice layout work. You found the right repair option and congrats on getting your WA5 back into production.


 
  
 Thank you. I really missed it and am glad to have it back and working great.


----------



## fhuang

tonynewman said:


> Thank you. I really missed it and am glad to have it back and working great.


 
  
  
 did you upgrade for any better caps?


----------



## fhuang

wyan said:


> Thanks everyone for the recommendation on WA5. Also many thanks on the tube advice! I am not in U.S. and I can found a used WA5 locally but not the maxxed version. Not sure if I should try the buy/sell forum.
> 
> I have ordered a pair of Elrog 300B on the way. Picked up one Brimar 5Z4GY locally for my DAC (clarity and balance! what a steal!). Too bad my order of 5 units at langrex has not been delivered after 45 days. Hope they are not lost during the transition.
> 
> By the way, I am planning to use WA5 to drive lowther/voxativ full range drivers (98DB) and AKG K1000.


 
  
  
 i'm a bit late.  you order/buy it yet? 
  
  
 i didn't get a max wa5 because i know always for more and different sound.  so i used that extra money(plus some more) for extra amp, which was gsx.  very happy with the amps.  besides, i would/will(only have the wa5 for 3 years) probably want to use that extra money for better cd player(source), better tubes, better cables or other accessories.


----------



## wyan

fhuang said:


> i'm a bit late.  you order/buy it yet?
> 
> 
> i didn't get a max wa5 because i know always for more and different sound.  so i used that extra money(plus some more) for extra amp, which was gsx.  very happy with the amps.  besides, i would/will(only have the wa5 for 3 years) probably want to use that extra money for better cd player(source), better tubes, better cables or other accessories.


 
  
 Not yet. Thanks a lot. I have already bought a Lampizator Big 7 which is really great and it has preamp built in.
  
 Right now I am using First Watt J2 to drive Lowther/Voxativ and the sound is clean and musical. I am thinking to try a tube amp. WA5 is on the list since I can also experience headphone and maybe it help tweat my loudspeaker system. The other candidate is Coincident Frankenstein MK II (it won't drive headphone though).
  
 I am not sure how big is the difference between a regular WA5 and a maxxed. Maxxed is harder for me to acquire.


----------



## effles

Well, my Tung Sol 5998 for my Wa3 arrived inexplicably quickly. Listening now, I'll post full impressions in a few hours.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

effles said:


> Well, my Tung Sol 5998 for my Wa3 arrived inexplicably quickly. Listening now, I'll post full impressions in a few hours.


 
  
 Beautiful...  we look forward to your listening impressions after a good burn-in period.


----------



## effles

hifiguy528 said:


> Beautiful...  we look forward to your listening impressions after a good burn-in period.


 
 Cheers! I've got some Telefunken Black Diamond E88CCs on the way, but they'll be a good 2 weeks.
  
 Initial impression is a much improved bass response, we'll see what happens after two days or so of burn in.


----------



## TonyNewman

fhuang said:


> did you upgrade for any better caps?


 
  
 Nope - same brand as before (nichicon). The replacements do appear slightly larger than the originals.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Prototype #2 on our upcoming WA8 'TransPortable' DAC/amp.


----------



## Fatsosixsixsix

Considering buying a WA6, but is there a significantly greater risk of it dying if it's been used for a couple hundred hours? I previously bought an iBasso amp which died within the year and that put me right off the amp business for a while


----------



## joseph69

fatsosixsixsix said:


> Considering buying a WA6, but is there a significantly greater risk of it dying if it's been used for a couple hundred hours? I previously bought an iBasso amp which died within the year and that put me right off the amp business for a while


 
 It only begins to break-in at 200hrs.


----------



## Badas

fatsosixsixsix said:


> Considering buying a WA6, but is there a significantly greater risk of it dying if it's been used for a couple hundred hours? I previously bought an iBasso amp which died within the year and that put me right off the amp business for a while


 

 As long as it has only been used for 200 hours. No real way of knowing. Not much can go wrong with a Woo tho. As Tony has shown recently even when something does go wrong it can be fixed easily as well.


----------



## Fatsosixsixsix

The one I'm looking at is looking more like a usage time of around 400-500 hours, but in all my research I haven't really found a post or thread talking about a WA amp dying from old age yet so it might be alright.
  
 I'm not rich so I would prefer to have it live for a long time rather than go through the hassle of having it repaired.


----------



## Badas

fatsosixsixsix said:


> The one I'm looking at is looking more like a usage time of around 400-500 hours, but in all my research I haven't really found a post or thread talking about a WA amp dying from old age yet so it might be alright.
> 
> I'm not rich so I would prefer to have it live for a long time rather than go through the hassle of having it repaired.


 

 I've had mine for 6 months and would have done double those hours. It still feels like it is just breaking in. You will be fine. They are built to last.


----------



## Stereolab42

fatsosixsixsix said:


> The one I'm looking at is looking more like a usage time of around 400-500 hours, but in all my research I haven't really found a post or thread talking about a WA amp dying from old age yet so it might be alright.
> 
> I'm not rich so I would prefer to have it live for a long time rather than go through the hassle of having it repaired.


 
  
 If you don't want to worry about ever having to repair anything go get a cheap disposable solid-state amp.  Tube amps are more susceptible to damage because tubes themselves can fail at any time in any possible way. But on the upside amps like Woos are relatively simple to repair, as Tony has demonstrated. Even in 50 years there will be audio repairman around who will still be able to fix these types of amps using commonly-available parts.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> If you don't want to worry about ever having to repair anything go get a cheap disposable solid-state amp.  Tube amps are more susceptible to damage because tubes themselves can fail at any time in any possible way. But on the upside amps like Woos are relatively simple to repair, as Tony has demonstrated. Even in 50 years there will be audio repairman around who will still be able to fix these types of amps using commonly-available parts.


 
  
 I could have done it myself with a soldering iron, some parts, and some knowledge. I was lacking all 3 - so got someone who knows what they are doing to do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What happened to me (2 burst caps) was very unfortunate and most folks will operate a Woo amp for years and years and never have that sort of problem. Just bad luck (and a very bad valve).


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> Well, my Tung Sol 5998 for my Wa3 arrived inexplicably quickly. Listening now, I'll post full impressions in a few hours.


 
  
  


effles said:


> Cheers! I've got some Telefunken Black Diamond E88CCs on the way, but they'll be a good 2 weeks.
> 
> Initial impression is a much improved bass response, we'll see what happens after two days or so of burn in.


 
  
 Boo-yah! You will be thrilled with that combination of power and drivers.
  
 Congrats on your new glass and make sure you let them really warm up, before forming your impressions (an hour).


----------



## Badas

Need some advise guys. I'm not sure if this pic will show up well.
  

  
 I have secured enough 6F type tubes to last my lifetime (31). However some of these have corrosion on the top pins.
  
 What will be the best way to store these without more corrosion?
  
 I was thinking of cleaning them all and then coating with a little machine oil and then replacing in the box. The oil can be removed when I'm ready to use. Would that be okay?


----------



## bpcans

hifiguy528 said:


> Prototype #2 on our upcoming WA8 'TransPortable' DAC/amp.


Pretty wow looking! Is this unit going to compete with the Chord Hugo, and where do you think it will fall in the pantheon of amp/DAC's out there?


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Need some advise guys. I'm not sure if this pic will show up well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would consider something like a gel, because the oil can run, drip, evaporate (over time); modern protective gels are more resistant to that and will not dry out. I'm not a chemist, but I found this link:
  
http://www.xmultiple.com/xwebsite-sealant.htm
  
 Curious to read recommendations from others.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> I have secured enough 6F type tubes to last my lifetime (31).


 
  
 It's a sickness, isn't it?
  
 I just received another pair of WE 421a from the postman - now I have 5 total, plus a pile of other tubes. Using only the Westys, assuming each will last for 5,000 hours, assuming 20 hours of Head-Fi per week (which is maybe low, right now) and even using them in pairs in my future WA2, I will have 10 years of tube goodness (or 50 years in a single installation with the WA3).
  
 Ten years seems like a long time... I will probably be deaf by then, anyway, and I can just go back to using my smart phone's output with ear buds


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Need some advise guys. I'm not sure if this pic will show up well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Vaseline. I'm not kidding. For long term storage of weapons in the army we used packing grease - vaseline does the same job and will create a seal for many years.


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> Boo-yah! You will be thrilled with that combination of power and drivers.
> 
> Congrats on your new glass and make sure you let them really warm up, before forming your impressions (an hour).


 
 Thank you so much for the help! I'm loving the Tung Sol, can't wait for the TKs.
 Unfortunately, my DAC's not working at the moment and my Xonar D1 just isn't cutting it so there's a fair amount of floor noise, really irritating. I think I just need to update some windows stuff, but we'll have to see. It's sounding great, but I'm not getting the most out of it at the moment.
  
 Obligatory glamour shot:


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Vaseline. I'm not kidding. For long term storage of weapons in the army we used packing grease - vaseline does the same job and will create a seal for many years.


 

  
 Excellent idea. Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Need some advise guys. I'm not sure if this pic will show up well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Vaseline is great against rust that's what i use in winter time on the car when a flying rock chips the paint and i cant fixit right away . we use salt in winter on the roads here not good for bare metal


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> Vaseline is great against rust that's what i use in winter time on the car when a flying rock chips the paint and i cant fixit right away . we use salt in winter on the roads here not good for bare metal


 
  
 Never leave home without it


----------



## Exidrion

Coming from solid-state amps and running a pair of LCD 3's, if a person wanted to try out tube sound for the first time, what Woo product would you guys recommend?


----------



## TonyNewman

exidrion said:


> Coming from solid-state amps and running a pair of LCD 3's, if a person wanted to try out tube sound for the first time, what Woo product would you guys recommend?


 
  
 I really like my WA6. Great entry level Woo amp, and it scales really well with nice glass. Should drive any LCD headphone easily (I use mine with HD600 - drives them no problem).


----------



## Badas

exidrion said:


> Coming from solid-state amps and running a pair of LCD 3's, if a person wanted to try out tube sound for the first time, what Woo product would you guys recommend?


 

 Running LCD3 you will need something powerful so WA-6SE, WA22, WA5 or WA234.
  
 WA22 runs my LCD3C perfectly.
  
 I think the WA234 might be good as a starter tube amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Running LCD3 you will need something powerful so WA-6SE, WA22, WA5 or WA234.
> 
> WA22 runs my LCD3C perfectly.
> 
> I think the WA234 might be good as a starter tube amp.


 
  
 So much power to drive the LCD3? The WA6 will drive almost anything except the HE6 - HD600/HD800/LCD-X all good.
  
 Going WA6-SE was a couple of drawbacks:
 1) Quite a bit more cost than a WA6, and
 2) Can't be used with 6SN7 type driver tubes.
 That last one can be a killer when tube rolling.
  
 I would not call the WA6-SE 'entry level' in the Woo lineup, but the way this hobby is going the WA234 will be "entry level" in a few years


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> So much power to drive the LCD3? The WA6 will drive almost anything except the HE6 - HD600/HD800/LCD-X all good.
> 
> Going WA6-SE was a couple of drawbacks:
> 1) Quite a bit more cost than a WA6, and
> ...


 

 I found the WA2 underpowered for my LCD3C's. So that is why I didn't list it or the WA6.
  
 However if he has the new fazor LCD3 that will be a different story. They are less power hungry.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I found the WA2 underpowered for my LCD3C's. So that is why I didn't list it or the WA6.
> 
> However if he has the new fazor LCD3 that will be a different story. They are less power hungry.


 
  
 Interesting. Bring the LCD-3Cs to the next session and we will see if the WA6 can make it dance. It is no powerhouse, but the HD600/HD800 are 300 Ohm headphones and not that easy to drive.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Interesting. Bring the LCD-3Cs to the next session and we will see if the WA6 can make it dance. It is no powerhouse, but the HD600/HD800 are 300 Ohm headphones and not that easy to drive.


 

 Yeah. Will do.
  
 WA6 = 580mw @ 32 ohms
 WA2 = 310mw @ 32 ohms
 WA22 = 1500mw @ 32 ohms
  
 LCD3 needs 1000mw (1W) @ 32 ohms


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yeah. Will do.
> 
> WA6 = 580mw @ 32 ohms
> WA2 = 310mw @ 32 ohms
> ...


 
  
 Thanks - that explains it


----------



## Kimakaze

I am waiting to get my 6F8G adapters from Glenn.  Is the NU 6F8G the ones to get?  I assume 'NU' is National Union and does not mean NEW or NOS.  Any other 6F8G's to consider?  Are the Tung Sol's even worth bothering if I get the National Unions?
  
 Any suggestions on 6SN7s?  I have a set of Sophia 6SN7s coming.  Glenn is sending me a set of 6SN7 adapters too.
  
 I am glad I kept my WA6, since I mainly use my planars with the WA6-SE.


----------



## TonyNewman

kimakaze said:


> I am waiting to get my 6F8G adapters from Glenn.  Is the NU 6F8G the ones to get?  I assume 'NU' is National Union and does not mean NEW or NOS.  Any other 6F8G's to consider?  Are the Tung Sol's even worth bothering if I get the National Unions?
> 
> Any suggestions on 6SN7s?  I have a set of Sophia 6SN7s coming.  Glenn is sending me a set of 6SN7 adapters too.
> 
> I am glad I kept my WA6, since I mainly use my planars with the WA6-SE.


 
  
 Yep - National Union. NOS looks like this (but I have "used, tested as new" tubes that are just as good).
  

  
  
 The TS RP 6F8Gs are well worth your time. They are superb tubes - which is why folks rave about them. Technically they are superior to the NUs, but not by a lot IMHO. They are also a more neutral tube. The NUs bring a sweetness to the sound that I (and others) find divine, especially for vocals - the TS RPs don't do that for me.
  
 Which works best for you depends on your rig and your personal taste in sound - if you want a warmer driver go for the NU, if you want a great all-rounder that is more neutral go for the TS RP. Both are excellent drivers.


----------



## joseph69

kimakaze said:


> I am waiting to get my 6F8G adapters from Glenn.  Is the NU 6F8G the ones to get?  I assume 'NU' is National Union and does not mean NEW or NOS.  Any other 6F8G's to consider?  Are the Tung Sol's even worth bothering if I get the National Unions?
> 
> Any suggestions on 6SN7s?  I have a set of Sophia 6SN7s coming.  Glenn is sending me a set of 6SN7 adapters too.
> 
> I am glad I kept my WA6, since I mainly use my planars with the WA6-SE.


 
 Correct, NU=National Union. I just received a pair the other day, didn't even open them to look at them yet because I'm also waiting for Glenn to make me a pair of 6DE7>6F8G adapters for my WA6…it will be the first time I'm using these tubes.
 As far as 6SN7 tubes…I happen too like the NOS-Sylvania 6SN7-WGTA's/"Bad Boys" and the
 NOS-[size=x-small]RCA Red Base 5692's. From what I've read the SE-6SN7's sound muddy when paired with the SE Princess. What rectifier tubes do you have?[/size]


----------



## TonyNewman

kimakaze said:


> I am waiting to get my 6F8G adapters from Glenn.  Is the NU 6F8G the ones to get?  I assume 'NU' is National Union and does not mean NEW or NOS.  Any other 6F8G's to consider?  Are the Tung Sol's even worth bothering if I get the National Unions?
> 
> Any suggestions on 6SN7s?  I have a set of Sophia 6SN7s coming.  Glenn is sending me a set of 6SN7 adapters too.
> 
> I am glad I kept my WA6, since I mainly use my planars with the WA6-SE.


 
  
 Apologies for not raising this earlier - your sig and avatar show a WA6-SE. My understanding is that the WA6-SE is too hot for 6SN7 / 6F8G driver tubes. WA6-SE owners will know more about this than I do, but my understanding is that it is not a good idea to use these drivers with the SE amp.


----------



## Kimakaze

joseph69 said:


> Correct, NU=National Union. I just received a pair the other day, didn't even open them to look at them yet because I'm also waiting for Glenn to make me a pair of 6DE7>6F8G adapters for my WA6…it will be the first time I'm using these tubes.
> As far as 6SN7 tubes…I happen too like the NOS-Sylvania 6SN7-WGTA's/"Bad Boys" and the
> NOS-[size=x-small]RCA Red Base 5692's. From what I've read the SE-6SN7's sound muddy when paired with the SE Princess. What rectifier tubes do you have?[/size]


 

 I have a WE422A, a Marconi U-52 and (7) USAF 596 rectifiers. I also have two Brimars, a Sophia Princess, a Psvane WE274B and Full Music (Sophia Equivalent).  I stick mostly to the 596.  I was saving the WE422A for WA22 but it does sound so good.
  
 Thanks.  I will look into the Sylvania 6SN7-WGTAs.


----------



## Kimakaze

tonynewman said:


> Apologies for not raising this earlier - your sig and avatar show a WA6-SE. My understanding is that the WA6-SE is too hot for 6SN7 / 6F8G driver tubes. WA6-SE owners will know more about this than I do, but my understanding is that it is not a good idea to use these drivers with the SE amp.


 

 I am happy with 6FD7s and USAF 596 in my WA6-SE.  All the 6SN7 and 6F8G talk made me think I was too quick to move onto the WA6-SE from the WA6.  Fortunately, I was saving the WA6 for my son so I can play with the new combinations.
  
 Glenn asked the same question.
 'These adapters are for the WA6-SE ???
 The adapters for the SE are different they need a resistor and capacitor in them.'
  
 I really wasn't interested in turning down the output of my WA6-SE with those additional mods since I already have a WA6.  Anyways, I also thought Glenn wasn't going to make these adapters for the WA6-SE because of friction Woo Audio was having with these adapters for the WA6-SE.


----------



## joseph69

kimakaze said:


> I have a WE422A, a Marconi U-52 and (7) USAF 596 rectifiers. I also have two Brimars, a Sophia Princess, a Psvane WE274B and Full Music (Sophia Equivalent).  I stick mostly to the 596.  I was saving the WE422A for WA22 but it does sound so good.
> 
> Thanks.  I will look into the Sylvania 6SN7-WGTAs.


 
 Nice rectifier tubes…your definitely all set!
 I also listen mainly to the 596, but lately have had the Brimar in, and on some occasions I will throw the SE Princess.
  


kimakaze said:


>





> *Anyways, I also thought Glenn wasn't going to make these adapters for the WA6-SE because of friction Woo Audio was having with these adapters for the WA6-SE.*


 
 I had the 6-SE, and this is what Glenn also told me about making the 6DE7>6SN7 adapters for it.


----------



## 2359glenn

joseph69 said:


> kimakaze said:
> 
> 
> > I have a WE422A, a Marconi U-52 and (7) USAF 596 rectifiers. I also have two Brimars, a Sophia Princess, a Psvane WE274B and Full Music (Sophia Equivalent).  I stick mostly to the 596.  I was saving the WE422A for WA22 but it does sound so good.
> ...


 

 I started making them again due to popular demand


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> I started making them again due to popular demand


 
 I sold off my 6-SE after not being able too obtain 6DE7>6SN7 adapters and re-purchased another WA6.
 It was just as well because I feel the WA6 is a warmer sounding amp and I love it!


----------



## MIKELAP

For those owners of WA22 is running balanced a worthy investment knowing i will need at least a balanced DAC not shure about HP cables from what i've  read .Thanks


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> For those owners of WA22 is running balanced a worthy investment knowing i will need at least a balanced DAC not shure about HP cables from what i've  read .Thanks




I have a balanced DAC (Oppo HA-1) and unbalanced (Arcam irDAC) and run the WA22 both ways. I don't think it makes one bit of difference between unbalanced and balanced. I think the most important thing is to get a DAC with the right sound signature. For me the unbalanced DAC's sound signature was many levels better. 

I do use the balanced headphone connection for two reasons. First stronger connection and two if I use SS (Oppo HA-1) there s a documented power gain. I have run a test between balanced and 1/4 inch connection and to my ears I could not pick up a quality difference. However others have said there is.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > For those owners of WA22 is running balanced a worthy investment knowing i will need at least a balanced DAC not shure about HP cables from what i've  read .Thanks
> ...


 
 Thanks will continue reading on the subject ,if anybody else would have an opinion on running the WA22 balanced being worth the expense or not feel free .Thanks


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> Thanks will continue reading on the subject ,if anybody else would have an opinion on running the WA22 balanced being worth the expense or not feel free .Thanks


 
 I also considered this at one point myself…so after doing some reading I came to understand that balanced is used mainly for long lenght in a studios. Also I have read that there was no difference in sound quality compared to SE. Whatever the case may be, or what others may hear, I decided against going balanced, as I'm perfectly fine with my SE connection and my current equipment.
 This is just what my research has lead me to believe…I'm in no way saying there is no difference in sound because I have never heard/experience a balanced connection.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I also considered this at one point myself…so after doing some reading I came to understand that balanced is used mainly for long lenght in a studios. Also I have read that there was no difference in sound quality compared to SE. Whatever the case may be, or what others may hear, I decided against going balanced, as I'm perfectly fine with my SE connection and my current equipment.
> This is just what my research has lead me to believe…I'm in no way saying there is no difference in sound because I have never heard/experience a balanced connection.




Exacta mondo. It is bogus. All the Oppo fanboys were bleating on about the sound quality gain on using balanced so I tested their claims. There is a power gain using the Oppo in balanced (a lot) however when I volume level matched I could not pick up a quality gain. I responded in the thread and said the volume gain was making you all think there was a quality gain. I got slammed. Then a Oppo engineer posted and said a quality gain was just not possible. 
I did the same test on my WA22 with the exact same impression. No quality gain.
Balanced is for very very long cable runs. We just do not use that in the headphone game. I'm of the opinion if you have balanced gear then use it. If you don't then don't worry about it. You're not missing anything.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> * Then a Oppo engineer posted and said a quality gain was just not possible. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This must be the article that I read…I do remember reading quality gain was just not possible.
 And I do agree, if you have it, use it, if not, don't bother.


----------



## Kimakaze

mikelap said:


> For those owners of WA22 is running balanced a worthy investment knowing i will need at least a balanced DAC not shure about HP cables from what i've  read .Thanks


 
  
 I think this post from Ardilla says it all, at least from Jack's point of view.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



- Balanced in Yes
 - Single Ended or Balanced output the same


  
*ORIGINAL POST* http://www.head-fi.org/t/634551/woo-wa22-balanced-vs-unbalanced-input#post_8838857
  

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/ce/100x100px-LS-ced77c57_HeadFiAvatar.png[/img] 
 
ardilla




 

  
 WA22 - balanced or not - a never ending story..... 
  
*Here is what Jack Wu had to say about it:*
  


> The WA22 is a fully balanced amp, see diagram below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
*Source:    http://www.head-fi.org/t/456258/wa22-internal-pictures/30#post_7258747*
  
  
  
  
  
_Also - from Jack Wu on email: _


> The WA22 is designed as a fully balanced amp from input to output. The amp is accepting a balanced input to work as designed. When RCA input is used, the input is essentially half of balanced input; thus the amp will lose about half the efficiency. The RCA input will work if the amp has a single-ended to balanced conversion built-in. For design simplicity, the WA22 accepts only balanced input.
> 
> Regarding to the outputs, all sockets delivery similar performance. The reason for multiple outputs are for people with different cable needs.


 

 Edited by ardilla - 5/5/13 at 3:23pm


----------



## isquirrel

Hey Tony,
  
 Got your Elrog's yet?
  
 Matt got his this week, been waiting on him to chime in with some impressions


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> Got your Elrog's yet?
> 
> Matt got his this week, been waiting on him to chime in with some impressions


 
  
 Not yet. My local supplier (audio crack dealer) is dealing direct with the folks in Deutchland. Communication is a little erratic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm in no rush - having a lot of fun playing with my tubeset in the WA5 now that it has been repaired. No doubt the ER300Bs will arrive suddenly in a week or two - a pleasant surprise when it happens.
  
 How are the ER300Bs tonality-wise? My understanding is that they are slightly warm of neutral - does that sound about right?


----------



## isquirrel

Perhaps a little warmer, however they do impart a very nice sense of realism and good tonality. I would describe them as being more forwards in their presentation, Matt has reported he particularly enjoys them with his genre of music.


----------



## Fririce0003

Well then I suppose I should give my impressions on the Elrog and Takatsuki tubes this far. 
 I'll start off by saying, both these tubes are in a league of their own, they don't do anything wrong. It's more a case of personal preference and what they do, more right, for you.
 So far I've got 86 hours on the Takatsuki's, 300b's, 274b's and TSRP. 10 hours on the Elrogs, Mullard Metal Bases and a different set of TSRP's. Not quite as much as I hoped for, but works ramped up again, back to doing weekends and 10 hour days :/
 Starting with the Elrog's, they're a nice clean sounding tube, on the warmer side of neutral but not too far off. Compared to the Takatsuki's they're a bit more forward in presentation, the leading edge of the notes are quicker and note decay isn't as long. The frequency response is tilted slightly in favour of the upper treble and highs, not a shrill or overly bright tube. But the slight skew to the Elrog does make it seem like details are more present. Bass is extended, a little bit on the lighter side but it still has presence. Some of the things that I've found the Elrog to do especially well is electric guitars, especially distortion on them. To do that right you need an amp that's quick and clean, so it's purely from the recording and guitar, not decay stacking ontop of itself. Now the Elrog does that right it presents nice clean distortion, heavy guitar rifts sound aggressive and grutal without loosing any technical prowess.
 Another thing they do well is electronic music, sure you don't get as much bass as the Takatsuki of SERP but the speed and clarity renders all of the electronic effects perfectly.
 So onto the Takatsuki, the words that come to mind when listening to them are; rich, euphonic, weighty, musical and sophisticated. Compare to the Elrog the soundstage is widened and deepened giving the music a grand scale to it. The bass is extended, weighty, quick and impactful. Speed isn't far behind the Elrog, it may even be on par, the Euphony and richness of the tube make it a bit hard to compare though. Decay on notes is longer, notes trail off into the background wonderfully, female vocals, jazz, classical or instrumental, this tube absolutely shines. It's incredibly musical and involving. Now I said it seemed like the Elrog drew more detail, the fact of the matter is the Takatsuki draws out more actual detail and dynamics, but the larger soundstage and euphonic voicing it leads to a more musically involving listen, but if you focus on the details things you've never heard in the mix before jump out at you. 
 I'm not really sure how I'd describe the tonal balance, it's all done well, bass is the fullest and weightiest I've heard, mids are lush and full, highs are crisp and extended. It doesn't leave me, personally, wanting anything more musically.
 While the Elrog does have an edge rendering guitars and textures due to a lack of decay and euphony plus it's more immediate voicing, the Takatsuki's hold up fine for rock, metal and electronic. It's just presented in a different way, rock and metal, for guitar solos the euphony adds another layer of depth to the sound and drums have more impact. For electronic, my god the bass, not just quantity but quality, weighty, fast and textured. The Takatsuki renders bass better than the elrog.
 Well for me overall I prefer the Takatsuki, the Elrog are still an impressive tube and will continue seeing use, but I feel myself gravitating to the Tak's more often than not. 
 Keep in mind I've still got a lot of burn in to do on each set of tubes so things could change later down the track. Also of note I'm using the tubes in a 234 with abyss headphones. The music I listen to is a bit of everything, classical, jazz, instrumental, female vocal, rock, metal, electronic and J-Pop, really what every I feel like at the time.
 Hope that read was entertaining and informative enough, and as always feel free to ask me any questions you may have


----------



## isquirrel

Agree with Matt's finding's above, my Tak have +300 hours on them and the Elrog's + 120 hours - the above scenario's don't change that much. I have been wondering with Matt whether a different rectifier would help with the Elrog's. I actually prefer them with the Tak 274B.
  
 But then I think its the best rectifier I have heard including the WE.


----------



## daverich4

mikelap said:


> Thanks will continue reading on the subject ,if anybody else would have an opinion on running the WA22 balanced being worth the expense or not feel free .Thanks




I think part of the answer depends on whether you're buying a new WA22 or a used one. I'm under the impression that the new ones produce the same output whether you're using the balanced or single ended inputs. However, my three year old WA22 produces approximately HALF the output when fed with a single ended source. No problem if your headphones can be driven to a volume that you're happy with but mine won't drive my HD800's from a single ended input without the volume all the way around. For me it's balanced inputs only. YMMV.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> I think part of the answer depends on whether you're buying a new WA22 or a used one. I'm under the impression that the new ones produce the same output whether you're using the balanced or single ended inputs. However, my three year old WA22 produces approximately HALF the output when fed with a single ended source. No problem if your headphones can be driven to a volume that you're happy with but mine won't drive my HD800's from a single ended input without the volume all the way around. For me it's balanced inputs only. YMMV.




Yeah. I heard there had been a minor redesign to allow the single end to operate at the same volume level as the balanced. Mine is six months old and I can confirm that they are at the same volume. No difference at all.


----------



## MIKELAP

daverich4 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks will continue reading on the subject ,if anybody else would have an opinion on running the WA22 balanced being worth the expense or not feel free .Thanks
> ...


 
 My amp is 4 years and i use the Senns HD800 with it loud for me is about 1 and 2 o'clock . i read about the phase splitter being in recent amps (2014) it seems Woo charges $250.00 to upgrade for older amps


----------



## daverich4

mikelap said:


> My amp is 4 years and i use the Senns HD800 with it loud for me is about 1 and 2 o'clock . i read about the phase splitter being in recent amps (2014) it seems Woo charges $250.00 to upgrade for older amps




Mine typically would be in about the same place as long as I'm driving the WA22 with the balanced inputs. If I try to drive my HD800's with the single ended inputs the volume ends up being almost all the way around with little room for adjustment if the music is recorded down in level a little. In any event, for my use, it's a moot point as both my Transporter and DAC have balanced outs.


----------



## MIKELAP

Montreal Audio show going on this weekend nice gear at the Woo Audio room


----------



## effles

Those W234s are absolutely gorgeous. I wish there were more audio shows in the UK.


----------



## Porteroso

God those things are works of art. I want.
  
 And thanks, frince, for your impressions. Must have been such an ordeal, having to listen to those magnificent tubes and amps and cans


----------



## Badas

Thanks for the pics. The Woo stand looks amazing.
WA234 plus Abyss Wow. 

I've been thinking a lot about the WA234. I could probably afford one of those in the next couple years. If I had my arm twisted I could do it next year. Crickey I spent twice the amount for my projector. Then I think of the amount of NOS tubes I would have to put it and it turns me off. :rolleyes:


----------



## isquirrel

Great pics, thanks Mike.
  
 Hmm 234's in Silver just don't look right. Are they using Shunguang 274B's


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Thanks for the pics. The Woo stand looks amazing.
> WA234 plus Abyss Wow.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do it ! You won't be disappointed, about time Matt & I had some company. Seriously there are only 2 sets of tubes you would ever need. Pretty much all the tube rolling experience involved with a WA 5 translates across.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Thanks for the pics. The Woo stand looks amazing.
> WA234 plus Abyss Wow.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And I thought I was obsessed - I have stopped at the WA5. That's the end of the line for me and tubes.
  
 WA234? Next life, maybe.


----------



## bpcans

OMG! You guys in Montreal got it going on. Conference rooms, hard wood tables, and leather captains chairs. Where do I sign up?


----------



## isquirrel

Woo in a boardroom, looks very top shelf


----------



## MIKELAP

isquirrel said:


> Woo in a boardroom, looks very top shelf


 
 The show is in a hotel on 2 or 3 floors.


----------



## magiccabbage

stax-i-nox said:


> Hi magiccabbage,
> 
> I was at a local hi fi store the other day, and heard the Kef LS-50's ...did not even come close, literally and figuratively!  I have a pair of VMPS 40's that are good, but not like these.  Have not heard any mega bucks speakers recently, but I can say this...these are extremely natural sounding speakers....and I've been around live classical music all my life....these come so close to live, it really is amazing, especially at their price point.
> 
> ...


 
 all this was through the WA5 - LS-50's??? 
  
 I didn't think the WA5 would have enough juice for those - aren't they too inefficient?


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Do it ! You won't be disappointed, about time Matt & I had some company. Seriously there are only 2 sets of tubes you would ever need. Pretty much all the tube rolling experience involved with a WA 5 translates across.


 
 Dont know how I haven't asked you this yet but have you got a stock of 2A3's? 
  
 What does the 234 sound like with 2a3's - HD800. I know you don't have HD800 but does Matt? 
  
 Imagine AVVT 2A3 + U52 + HD800   vs Elrog 300b + U52 + HD800


----------



## Fririce0003

magiccabbage said:


> Dont know how I haven't asked you this yet but have you got a stock of 2A3's?
> 
> What does the 234 sound like with 2a3's - HD800. I know you don't have HD800 but does Matt?
> 
> Imagine AVVT 2A3 + U52 + HD800   vs Elrog 300b + U52 + HD800




Haven't tried any 2A3 or 45 tubes yet, wouldn't mind seeing what type of sound they impart compared to the 300b's later down the track though. 
 I used to have a set of HD800's and PS1000's but after buying the abyss I sold them since they weren't getting any use.


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Dont know how I haven't asked you this yet but have you got a stock of 2A3's?
> 
> What does the 234 sound like with 2a3's - HD800. I know you don't have HD800 but does Matt?
> 
> Imagine AVVT 2A3 + U52 + HD800   vs Elrog 300b + U52 + HD800


 

 I have tried the 2A3 and 45's, they both offer in order a sound that is softer than the 300B's and one could say less scale and drama. For my tastes the 30B's are where it is at. The Elrog probably crosses the line as a hybrid valve so gives you the best of both worlds. I am still not happy with the bass performance of the Elroy and that's the only thing holding me back from giving it an A+ performance rating. I have a gut feeling this is rectifier dependant and could be driver tube related as well. Though I not exactly short on choices there so far my favourite combo with the Elroy is the Tak 274B with the TSRP. 
  
 Both Matt and I have decided to stay way from the U52's, I have some experience being English with the B65's and they are not as clean as the TSRP. There also seem to be some issues that Tony and others had had with the WA5 and NU's so I am saying away. I am exploring another 6SN7 option and will report back if that works out although based a past presence I don't expect it too. maybe the RCA grey glass could be a better match with the Elrog's.
  
 As far as the HD-800 is concerned its defiantly not my thing, great of you like that sound signature, I don't. Matter of personal preference, not saying they are bad, just not my thing.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I have tried the 2A3 and 45's, they both offer in order a sound that is softer than the 300B's and one could say less scale and drama. For my tastes the 30B's are where it is at. The Elrog probably crosses the line as a hybrid valve so gives you the best of both worlds. I am still not happy with the bass performance of the Elroy and that's the only thing holding me back from giving it an A+ performance rating. I have a gut feeling this is rectifier dependant and could be driver tube related as well. Though I not exactly short on choices there so far my favourite combo with the Elroy is the Tak 274B with the TSRP.
> 
> Both Matt and I have decided to stay way from the U52's, I have some experience being English with the B65's and they are not as clean as the TSRP. There also seem to be some issues that Tony and others had had with the WA5 and NU's so I am saying away. I am exploring another 6SN7 option and will report back if that works out although based a past presence I don't expect it too. maybe the RCA grey glass could be a better match with the Elrog's.
> 
> As far as the HD-800 is concerned its defiantly not my thing, great of you like that sound signature, I don't. Matter of personal preference, not saying they are bad, just not my thing.


 
  
 RCA 6SN7s have great warmth, but they give up a lot of detail, perhaps too much for a WA234 (I don't use them in my WA5 anymore).


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> RCA 6SN7s have great warmth, but they give up a lot of detail, perhaps too much for a WA234 (I don't use them in my WA5 anymore).


 
 They are so variable in quality I heard some that sound very average and some that are totally different and very good. Even from the same era, not easy finding a decent set. The early 1940's era one's are expensive but generally where the RCA magic is. Just thinking that may bring back the Elrog's tendency to sound forward, its never bright but maybe the RCA's or Brimar's would be more laid back.
  
 Pondering.....


----------



## litleGrasshoper

for using the hd800 which amp is best wa22 or wa5? I mainly listen to choir music,church music, opera and broadway musicals. I like listening suo gan and ecstasy of gold I like who the soprano sounds.


----------



## Badas

litlegrasshoper said:


> for using the hd800 which amp is best wa22 or wa5? I mainly listen to choir music,church music, opera and broadway musicals. I like listening suo gan and ecstasy of gold I like who the soprano sounds.




For detail and extension of the treble with the HD800 then you will want the WA5. Detail is what the HD800 is kinda all about.
I have heard the HD800 on the WA22 and the WA5 and altho I own the WA22 the WA5 has it beat in detail and treble. WA5 will suit your type of music.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> For detail and extension of the treble with the HD800 then you will want the WA5. Detail is what the HD800 is kinda all about.
> I have heard the HD800 on the WA22 and the WA5 and altho I own the WA22 the WA5 has it beat in detail and treble. WA5 will suit your type of music.


 
  
 +1. That was my (modded) HD800 and WA5 and I have to agree - WA5 all the way.
  
 As with any tube amp, tube selection is probably going to be the most important thing to get the sound you like from the amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

badas said:


> For detail and extension of the treble with the HD800 then you will want the WA5. Detail is what the HD800 is kinda all about.
> I have heard the HD800 on the WA22 and the WA5 and altho I own the WA22 the WA5 has it beat in detail and treble. WA5 will suit your type of music.


 
 I have WA5/HD800 - best combo i have ever heard. 


litlegrasshoper said:


> for using the hd800 which amp is best wa22 or wa5? I mainly listen to choir music,church music, opera and broadway musicals. I like listening suo gan and ecstasy of gold I like who the soprano sounds.


 
 HD800 - WA5 is perfect for choir. church and opera. Also excellent for chamber music.


----------



## MIKELAP

Well did a bit of research over the weekend about running the WA22 balanced so far what i found is that i need balanced cables from amp to dac of course, but what i also found is that i dont need a balanced HP cable or Neutrik connector to get a balanced sound out of HP i take my stock HP jack plug it in and i get balanced sound that's what i was told .as for a DAC well i leaning towards the WYRED4SOUND DAC2  runs balanced has samplerates up to 24/192 very good DAC it seems .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Theres also a wyred4sound DAC1 which is 3 years old at a fraction of the price but samplerates only goes up 24/96 but it runs balanced wouldnt be to expensive to try see if there's an improvement decisions decisions .


----------



## Stereolab42

There is no point in owning a WA22 if you're not going to run it balanced. Yes the newer ones have a phase splitter but it's an extra piece of processing that your sound has to go through.


----------



## Badas

I don't know why my camera flash makes the drive tubes and Glenn adapters look blue??? I can assure ya they are black like below:
  

  
 Anyhow. The Glenn adapters are the real deal. Super nice. Kinda makes my drive tubes look Formula One now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have notice a lot less noise from the tubes. I have been struggling with power tube noise for a while now. Last night I got nothing. I think the shielding on the wires help.
  
 10/10 Glenn.


----------



## reeltime

litlegrasshoper said:


> for using the hd800 which amp is best wa22 or wa5? I mainly listen to choir music,church music, opera and broadway musicals. I like listening suo gan and ecstasy of gold I like who the soprano sounds.


 
  
 I have not heard the HD800 with the WA22, but there is an argument to be made the the WA22 could be a better pairing, because it is a push pull amp and can be used balanced.  The WA5 (and WA5LE) are unbalanced only.  I've never auditioned the HD800 with the WA22, so I can't say for sure.
  
 After CanJam this weekend, there are better options than the Woo amps for the HD800 out there.  The Cavalli amps (Liquid Glass and Gold) are repeatedly said to be difficult to beat, I have to agree.  I've auditioned the GSX-MKII and that amp is better with the HD800.  And the Chord Hugo DAC/Amp gets a lot of love with the HD800 (a close friend says it tamed the high end of the HD800 like no other amp he's heard) and shouldn't be overlooked, though I didn't get to listen to the HD800 with either the mobile or the TT. 
  
  That said, I love the romance of these amps and I won't sell my WA5LE.  I'm a Woo devotee.  I may however change headphones down the road.

  


mikelap said:


> Well did a bit of research over the weekend about running the WA22 balanced so far what i found is that i need balanced cables from amp to dac of course, but what i also found is that i dont need a balanced HP cable or Neutrik connector to get a balanced sound out of HP i take my stock HP jack plug it in and i get balanced sound that's what i was told .as for a DAC well i leaning towards the WYRED4SOUND DAC2  runs balanced has samplerates up to 24/192 very good DAC it seems .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Theres also a wyred4sound DAC1 which is 3 years old at a fraction of the price but samplerates only goes up 24/96 but it runs balanced wouldnt be to expensive to try see if there's an improvement decisions decisions .


 
  
 There's always something better out there.  I have the DAC 2, but I haven't upgraded the innerds with the "se" (DSD and Clock chip).  I decided on the DAC 2 because, just like you, I needed the balanced XLRs to drive my Genelecs.  I'm now tossing around the idea of either upgrading the DAC 2 or jumping (at a HUGE expense) to the Chord Hugo TT, which also has balanced outputs.  The Wyred is a solid DAC, but the Hugo is in another class (in both price and sound).  
  
 The cool thing about Wyred4Sound is that they offer upgrades on nearly everything they make, so you're never locked in to your current generation of product.


----------



## Contrails

What about using the WA22 with LCD-X? I am looking for slightly warm and very clean sound with good bass impact, details and expansive soundstage.  I am set on the LCD-x but I am looking for a tube amp for it. I am guessing tube wise 7236, TS 6F8 with adapters and maybe EML mesh as rectifier in the WA22? The DAC is MDAC with balanced outputs.
  
 Or go all out and pull the trigger on WA5 with the tube upgrades and call it a day? But then again is it worth the $2000 extra over the WA22.  (I already have pairs of 5998, Bendix 6080, 7236, RCAs... that I would like to use).


----------



## dahan

mikelap said:


> Well did a bit of research over the weekend about running the WA22 balanced so far what i found is that i need balanced cables from amp to dac of course, but what i also found is that i dont need a balanced HP cable or Neutrik connector to get a balanced sound out of HP i take my stock HP jack plug it in and i get balanced sound that's what i was told .as for a DAC well i leaning towards the WYRED4SOUND DAC2  runs balanced has samplerates up to 24/192 very good DAC it seems .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Theres also a wyred4sound DAC1 which is 3 years old at a fraction of the price but samplerates only goes up 24/96 but it runs balanced wouldnt be to expensive to try see if there's an improvement decisions decisions .


 
 I used to pair the DAC1 with WA22 and HD800, and HD800 sounds quite bright with DAC1 and WA22 combo.


----------



## MIKELAP

dahan said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Well did a bit of research over the weekend about running the WA22 balanced so far what i found is that i need balanced cables from amp to dac of course, but what i also found is that i dont need a balanced HP cable or Neutrik connector to get a balanced sound out of HP i take my stock HP jack plug it in and i get balanced sound that's what i was told .as for a DAC well i leaning towards the WYRED4SOUND DAC2  runs balanced has samplerates up to 24/192 very good DAC it seems .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Theres also a wyred4sound DAC1 which is 3 years old at a fraction of the price but samplerates only goes up 24/96 but it runs balanced wouldnt be to expensive to try see if there's an improvement decisions decisions .
> ...


 
 Thanks for your imput , do you feel the HD800 is a bright HP to start with to your ears ,also as it is i am using the HD800 with the Burson Conductor which has same dac chip as W4S DAC .because to me the hd 800 are neutral yes but not bright .So im expecting a similar sound signature but maybe a bit better sounding


----------



## MIKELAP

contrails said:


> What about using the WA22 with LCD-X? I am looking for slightly warm and very clean sound with good bass impact, details and expansive soundstage.  I am set on the LCD-x but I am looking for a tube amp for it. I am guessing tube wise 7236, TS 6F8 with adapters and maybe EML mesh as rectifier in the WA22? The DAC is MDAC with balanced outputs.
> 
> Or go all out and pull the trigger on WA5 with the tube upgrades and call it a day? But then again is it worth the $2000 extra over the WA22.  (I already have pairs of 5998, Bendix 6080, 7236, RCAs... that I would like to use).


 
 Lately I just got myself a WA22 already have the WA2 and  WA6 to me there very similar sounding will see how much of an improvement is the WA22 balanced but im not expecting alot i bought this amp more for its tube complement than for gain in sound quality that said i am very happy with all of these amps i listen to all of them .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       About what to buy ,are you getting into tube amps for the pleasure of collecting tubes experiencing the different flavors and types of tube and amps or you just want the best right away and stick to it like when you buy a SS amp ,you buy it and forget about it .Speaking for the amps i have i would go for the WA2 like i said i didnt try my WA22 balanced yet but i dont expect miracles and alot of headfiers prefer it to the WA22 and its alot cheaper .As for the WA5 i never heard it only thing i know is the good tubes for that amp are to expensive for me lol. Others may chime in with there experiences i think Badas which has a WA22 experienced the WA5 if im not mistaken .One last thing if you already have lots of tubes you can use with either amp you gotta take that into account to That's what i ended up doing . Good Luck


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> What about using the WA22 with LCD-X? I am looking for slightly warm and very clean sound with good bass impact, details and expansive soundstage.  I am set on the LCD-x but I am looking for a tube amp for it. I am guessing tube wise 7236, TS 6F8 with adapters and maybe EML mesh as rectifier in the WA22? The DAC is MDAC with balanced outputs.
> 
> Or go all out and pull the trigger on WA5 with the tube upgrades and call it a day? But then again is it worth the $2000 extra over the WA22.  (I already have pairs of 5998, Bendix 6080, 7236, RCAs... that I would like to use).


 
  
 If you want slightly warm of neutral then you will want NU 6F8G. That is a killer tube on my WA22. I have heard the LCDX with my WA22. I super liked it. Compared to my LCD3 it had a larger soundstage and more detail. My LCD3 was more relaxed.


mikelap said:


> Lately I just got myself a WA22 already have the WA2 and  WA6 to me there very similar sounding will see how much of an improvement is the WA22 balanced but im not expecting alot i bought this amp more for its tube complement than for gain in sound quality that said i am very happy with all of these amps i listen to all of them .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       About what to buy ,are you getting into tube amps for the pleasure of collecting tubes experiencing the different flavors and types of tube and amps or you just want the best right away and stick to it like when you buy a SS amp ,you buy it and forget about it .Speaking for the amps i have i would go for the WA2 like i said i didnt try my WA22 balanced yet but i dont expect miracles and alot of headfiers prefer it to the WA22 and its alot cheaper .As for the WA5 i never heard it only thing i know is the good tubes for that amp are to expensive for me lol. Others may chime in with there experiences i think Badas which has a WA22 experienced the WA5 if im not mistaken .One last thing if you already have lots of tubes you can use with either amp you gotta take that into account to That's what i ended up doing . Good Luck


 
  
 Yes. I have heard both. On many occasions. My friend Tony is a great guy and has let be listen to some fantastic gear. No doubt about it. The WA5 improves on detail extension and soundstage. It does feel next level to me. There has been music sessions that I have thought "my WA22 couldn't get close to this". Sometimes I think it is the extra juice (power).
 The WA22 is top class. It will keep ya satisfied for a very very long time. It's just the WA5 is next level.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks for your impressions Badas. Very helpful. Which rectifiers are you using btw?


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Thanks for your impressions Badas. Very helpful. *Which rectifiers are you using btw*?


 

 No worries.
  
 Brimer 5Z4GY. Lovely rectifier.
 NU 6F8G. Drive tubes
 Still rolling power tubes. Kinda funny but I seem to like cheap ones. The Russian 6H13's actually do a lot right and very little wrong. Sylvania 6080 is a wonderfully liquid tube with a lot of bass. Also does not do a lot wrong. I have more expensive power tubes like the TS 7236 and Bendix 6080 graphite plates. They did not impress.
  
 Others may find this interesting. In the WA22 you really can't hear much difference between power tubes until you roll into the 6F8G type driver tube. The power tubes all sounded so similar using a 6SN7 driver.
  
 Also I was getting a bit of noise from particular power tubes using the eBarf 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters. Once I installed the Glenn adapter all noise problems went away.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ...
> Brimer 5Z4GY. Lovely rectifier.
> NU 6F8G. Drive tubes
> ...


 
  
 Running this tube combination right now in my WA6/HD600 rig - wonderful sound. Really takes the WA6/HD600 setup places I didn't think it could go.
  
 Not as resolving or technically impressive as my WA5/HE6/HD800 rig, but it sure is fun


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Running this tube combination right now in my WA6/HD600 rig - wonderful sound. Really takes the WA6/HD600 setup places I didn't think it could go.
> 
> Not as resolving or technically impressive as my WA5/HE6/HD800 rig, but it sure is fun


 

 That WA6 Brimar, NU and HD600 rig is fantastic. If there was no top tier options I would be happy with that rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is very relaxing.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> That WA6 Brimar, NU and HD600 rig is fantastic. If there was no top tier options I would be happy with that rig.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's lovely and easy listening for extended periods. The WA5/HD800/HE6 is great, but intense, and can get fatiguing after a while.
  
 Really tempted to hook up the WA6 to the Vega DAC and see what happens. Might give the SQ a boost.


----------



## namhkim

Wow, so many great Woos here! I only have one WooWA3+, and I made the tube cage out of 3 square computer fan mesh I found on ebay. It's a bit ugly, but I feel safer than without it.


----------



## Badas

namhkim said:


> Wow, so many great Woos here! I only have one WooWA3+, and I made the tube cage out of 3 square computer fan mesh I found on ebay. It's a bit ugly, but I feel safer than without it.


 
  
 Very cool dude.
  
 I'm a little more uncaring I suppose. I have two boys 10 and 6 years old.
  
 I simply said "those tubes get super hot. if ya touch them they will burn badly. Will probably burn ya skin off. So if ya touch them it's your fault. Okay boys?" They have never touched and keep reminding me that the tubes are dangerous. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think they got the message.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> contrails said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your impressions Badas. Very helpful. *Which rectifiers are you using btw*?
> ...


 
 I had my RK60 and 6F8G adapters made by Glenn always work fine


----------



## js319

Dear all,

Have been lurking for a few months here. None of you know this until now, but I am quite indebted to many of you for all the experience and wisdom you have shared with your Woo gear. It was really this thread that urged me to take the plunge on a WA22, which I took delivery of a few weeks ago. The WA22 is my first ever tube amp, and I've had a blast so far running it on the Woo Audio stock then upgraded tubes fully balanced with my LCD-3fs. 

Naturally, the next step is tube rolling, which I will try to do with the benefit of having read (and re-read, many times) some of the related tube rolling threads on Head-fi. To start with, I would really appreciate some help on what must be terribly noob questions:

When I put in a pair of (supposedly) NOS 6AS7Gs yesterday, in the left channel the headphone runs dead quiet, albeit the music that I hear seems relatively "closed" needing to be opened up. In the right channel unfortunately there is strong rustling (somewhat like a radio with bad reception) that makes the music un-listenable - we are not talking just microphonics here. I know it's got to be one of the tubes, because the amp and the whole setup ran without issue on both the Woo stock and upgraded tubes. 

As further background which may be relevant: I cleaned the pins with Deoxit lightly though did not leave the solution on overnight; and I also noticed that the tubes went into the sockets with a lot less resistance than what I am used to. 

So the noob questions, likely in increasing order of cluelessness, are:

Do tubes, and 6AS7Gs in particular, run noisy and would this go away after hours of burn-in? 
Could loose contacts be the culprit / could the pins be too thin? What can be done if anything?
If it's the right channel which has a problem, is it the tube on the right (looking at the front of the amp) that is responsible?

Thanks for all your input, and once again, thank you for having pushed me to the dark side!


----------



## MIKELAP

js319 said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Have been lurking for a few months here. None of you know this until now, but I am quite indebted to many of you for all the experience and wisdom you have shared with your Woo gear. It was really this thread that urged me to take the plunge on a WA22, which I took delivery of a few weeks ago. The WA22 is my first ever tube amp, and I've had a blast so far running it on the Woo Audio stock then upgraded tubes fully balanced with my LCD-3fs.
> 
> ...


 
 I had a noisy Russian 6as7 type tube the other night i said to myself my tube caught the Badas Syndrome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 whipped out my trusty sandpaper sanded the pins and it was cured happy camper .Just noticed while listening to my WA6 i am using a SP 274B as rectifier i have distortion in HP could Sophia be on her last leg she has around 600 hours on her i think ill whip out  my sandpaper again and see if she sounds better.  Nope not better how many hours are those suppose to last anyways .Thanks


----------



## Badas

js319 said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Have been lurking for a few months here. None of you know this until now, but I am quite indebted to many of you for all the experience and wisdom you have shared with your Woo gear. It was really this thread that urged me to take the plunge on a WA22, which I took delivery of a few weeks ago. The WA22 is my first ever tube amp, and I've had a blast so far running it on the Woo Audio stock then upgraded tubes fully balanced with my LCD-3fs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hhhmm,
  
 6AS7G tubes. The alternative to 6080.
  
 6AS7G tubes are not fun. I have discovered this as well. Most are very noisy in the WA22.
 In your case it sounds like you have bad tubes. Maybe a loss in vacuum. That would explain it not being good even on music. Sometimes you get background noise but it is not heard in music. I have had what you explained before I just guessed they were bad.
  
 What 6AS7G tubes are they? Do you get blue flares in the tube when powered?
  
 Now. 6AS7G on the WA22. I have kinda learned by experimenting that 6AS7G does not like the WA22 circuits very much. I had documented here before a history of getting over 50% of them as noisy. That was from a lot of different manufactures.
 The RCA type (rebadged Sylvania, Tung-Sol, Raytheon and others) are the worst. Russians are not great either. The only stable one I have found is the early Chatham / Tung-Sols that are differently designed to the RCA. I have not tried the 5998 type.
 Here is a interesting discovery tho. As soon as I went to a 6F8G driver all my noisy power tubes went quiet. I don't understand why. I'm just guessing that the 6AS7G power tube reacts badly with a 6SN7 driver. It is a early discovery of mine so I need more time to understand it. However I'm busy rolling power tubes at the moment (10 variants) and they are all quiet. Go figure.


----------



## joseph69

Glad I have a WA6…great tube rolling choices/very reasonably priced (and the WA6 itself) and sounds awesome!!!


----------



## js319

Thank you both Mikelap and Badas for your input. Badas indeed I had followed your comments about the 6AS7Gs from earlier, I was just hoping against hope that your experience is isolated ...
  
 I tried a number of things earlier this evening:
 - No blue flares upon turning on, in response to Badas' question.
 - Swapped the tubes around and the noise  witched channels, so definitely one of the tubes is responsible for the noise.
 - The noise is more like a strong hum and less the bad radio reception rustling I spoke of. It's not faint and loud enough to be in the way of the music.
 - No additional noise when tapping on the amp or directly on the tubes themselves, so doesn't seem like a microphonnics issue.
 - No noise at all when the amp is being powered up and the light is blinking ... hum starts right away when the light had steadied. Sorry if this is blindingly obvious to everyone but I just mention for completeness.
 - Did a more thorough cleaning job with the Deoxit short of soaking the pins in solution for hours ... no improvement whatsoever.
  
 It's been a long day at work, so finally I decided to admit defeat and just pop back the working 7236 tubes to enjoy some music. 
  
 Anyway, if anyone has further ideas for a diagnosis / solution, please give me a shout! And thanks again for helping me get into this hobby in the first place.


----------



## Badas

js319 said:


> Thank you both Mikelap and Badas for your input. Badas indeed I had followed your comments about the 6AS7Gs from earlier, I was just hoping against hope that your experience is isolated ...
> 
> I tried a number of things earlier this evening:
> - No blue flares upon turning on, in response to Badas' question.
> ...


 
  
 I would be guess in saying this is a RCA type tube with this type of internal structure:
  

  
 They are the only ones that add that metal flap down the bottom. I have seen these with Chrome tops and clear tops, Black and Grey plates and top and bottom getters. I have seen them as RCA, Rogers, Sylvania, Tung-Sol and Raytheon. All the same tubes. There could be others.
  
 My point is. They all hum in the WA22. Some very little. Some a lot. I have tried taking out the offending tube and swapping with a quiet. That doesn't help. I have learned to ignore this tube by a lot of purchases and tube rolling. Just leave this tube out of the WA22. Not a great sounding tube IMO. Your 7236 is far superior.
  
 Try the Sylvania 6080 Gold. Can be had cheaply and it is a very nice sounding tube. Romantic and relaxed. I'm having fun with it at the moment. It is also another that gets re-branded. I own the same tube with these labels on it. Sylvania, Brimar and Telefunkin. I've also seen it as National.


----------



## MIKELAP

Well my DAC search is coming along nicely  probably going to be a Wyred4sound DAC2 ,at best an Audio GD Master 7 ill be using this dac with my WA22 balanced and HD 800


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Very nice dude. Both are cool kits.
  
 Will you listen to their sound signatures? As you may be aware they all sound different. Technical accomplishments put aside.
  
 For example:
  
 My Oppo HA-1 is a fully balanced DAC. XLR outputs etc.....
 My Arcam irDAC is technically very boring.
  
 The Arcam DAC schiits all over the Oppo. The Oppo is cold and sounds like it was made in 1970 by a new audio company from some ass end of the earth. The Arcam is warm and musical and sounds like they have been making DAC's forever (Opps they have, they were the first to make a outboard DAC).
  
 Gotta listen to them dude.


----------



## TonyNewman

Auralic Vega. That box is the glue that holds my audio system together - it is the core of my setup.
  
 Just the right mix of musicality and detail and warmth for my tastes.
  
 Couldn't live without it


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> I would be guess in saying this is a RCA type tube with this type of internal structure:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 .. agreed on all points, from my experiences with the WA3. I have TS and RCA versions and while I don't have the same hum problems, they are very middle-of-the-road in SQ. Many power tubes are better: TS 5998, TS 6520, TS / Sylvania 7236 and, of course, the holy-grail WE 421a. I just picked up another pair of TS 6520s - they sell for much less than others on the previous list and sound fantastic. Very underrated tube, IMO.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> +1 .. agreed on all points, from my experiences with the WA3. I have TS and RCA versions and while I don't have the same hum problems, they are very middle-of-the-road in SQ. Many power tubes are better: TS 5998, TS 6520, TS / Sylvania 7236 and, of course, the holy-grail WE 421a. I just picked up another pair of TS 6520s - they sell for much less than others on the previous list and sound fantastic. Very underrated tube, IMO.




Good score on the 6520. One tube I would really like to try. What price approximately? And where from? 

I have been searching.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Very nice dude. Both are cool kits.
> 
> ...


 
 Thats not possible unfortunately for none of the gear im interested in,i always gotta go with what others think .Brands sold here seem to be different from whats sold in U.S. here you find more European brands   Audio GD products look interesting and they come with a 10 year warranty .The other problem over here these days is the currency exchange rate anything i buy in U.S funds i gotta add atleast 25%+ customs so trying to buy over here and used. its crazy 3-4 years ago our currency was on par with U.S. currency boy did it take a dive .C'est la vie.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Thats not possible unfortunately for none of the gear im interested in,i always gotta go with what others think .Brands sold here seem to be different from whats sold in U.S. here you find more European brands   Audio GD products look interesting and they come with a 10 year warranty .The other problem over here these days is the currency exchange rate anything i buy in U.S funds i gotta add atleast 25%+ customs so trying to buy over here and used. its crazy 3-4 years ago our currency was on par with U.S. currency boy did it take a dive .C'est la vie.




Yeah. I know where ya are coming from. Same situation (I'm Kiwi (New Zealand)). We have to rely on reviews. I've read good comments about the first DAC (Wired4Sound). Read nothing about the second. 
It is difficult. If ya read reviews on the net about the Oppo HA-1 you would get the impression that the DAC was the greatest built in the last 1000 years. In the end it was the worste I have heard out of the selection I have heard.


----------



## Contrails

Badas you're a kiwi? Oh man shame about the WC Cricket loss. I grew up in Auckland but currently working in Indonesia. 

There's a shop in Onehunga, sorry can't remember the name but it had some really good turntables, DACs and speaker amps. Nice owner to who was very helpful.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Badas you're a kiwi? Oh man shame about the WC Cricket loss. I grew up in Auckland but currently working in Indonesia.
> 
> There's a shop in Onehunga, sorry can't remember the name but it had some really good turntables, DACs and speaker amps. Nice owner to who was very helpful.




Yip. Auckland boy through and through. Was born here. Travelled the world and returned.

Turned on Audio is the shop.

I haven't had any dealings there but I should. Tony's WA5 was repaired there. As soon as I get a moment I will poke my head in and say hi. 

You take care in Indonesia ya honorary Kiwi.


----------



## kokushu

I was thinking about bringing my WA5 into an electronic store for a check up and maintenance.  Since I live in California it seem like a huge cost to ship to NY just for it.  Is this going to be a good idea or should I just send it to Woo to do it?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ...
> 
> Turned on Audio is the shop.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Big rap from me for these folks. Very helpful and knowledgeable. They are my preferred supplier and I have bought a lot of gear through them (Accuphase P-4200 / Simaudio 430HA ... etc).
  
 The repair went very smoothly - great job and am very happy with the result.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> I was thinking about bringing my WA5 into an electronic store for a check up and maintenance.  Since I live in California it seem like a huge cost to ship to NY just for it.  Is this going to be a good idea or should I just send it to Woo to do it?


 
  
 My understanding from my WA5 repair is that the Woo amps are simple beasts - point to point wiring etc. A competent audio repair person is going to be all over them.
  
 I live in NZ and shipment to New York was never an option  - so a local retailer put my repair out to a local specialist repair guy and he did a great job.
  
 My 2 cents - if New York isn't close by I would be looking at a local repair option.


----------



## isquirrel

mikelap said:


> Thats not possible unfortunately for none of the gear im interested in,i always gotta go with what others think .Brands sold here seem to be different from whats sold in U.S. here you find more European brands   Audio GD products look interesting and they come with a 10 year warranty .The other problem over here these days is the currency exchange rate anything i buy in U.S funds i gotta add atleast 25%+ customs so trying to buy over here and used. its crazy 3-4 years ago our currency was on par with U.S. currency boy did it take a dive .C'est la vie.


 

 Feel you're pain, our dollar has dropped 25% against the US over the past year. I sent a PayPal payment this morning, (yep for more Tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I got .73 cents to the US $.


----------



## isquirrel

Happy Easter to everyone, love this forum, its grief and ego free, best forum on Head-Fi IMHO. Thanks for keeping it that way.


----------



## isquirrel

Downloaded these two wonderful albums for Easter Sunday, highly recommended, although I have the Volume sitting at 1 O'Clock


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Happy Easter to everyone, love this forum, its grief and ego free, best forum on Head-Fi IMHO. Thanks for keeping it that way.




Happy Easter to you. Ya Easter Squirrel.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Good score on the 6520. One tube I would really like to try. What price approximately? And where from?
> 
> I have been searching.


 

 Sorry for the delayed response... I was on vacation and promised my girlfriend I would (mostly) stay off the internet.
  
 I find them from time-to-time on eBay; my tube guy in Madison, WI couldn't find any, but his collection is so huge there could be some in a drawer, undiscovered.
  
 My last matched pair was $80.00 US - quite a bit less than the 5998 or 421a wallet-busters.


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> Sorry for the delayed response... I was on vacation and promised my girlfriend I would (mostly) stay off the internet.
> 
> I find them from time-to-time on eBay; my tube guy in Madison, WI couldn't find any, but his collection is so huge there could be some in a drawer, undiscovered.
> 
> My last matched pair was $80.00 US - quite a bit less than the 5998 or 421a wallet-busters.


 
 Holy crap, that's a pretty great price. I'd look around for more Power tubes, but I'm enjoying my 5998 too much.
  
 Still waiting on my E88CCs, unfortunately, should be here early next week.


----------



## bebop86

great price


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here know how many watts the WA5 puts into the LCD2 on the low impedance setting? Also is it the same amount of watts with the added fazor tech?


----------



## Badas

Tube Porn  Tung-Sol round plates. 




These are not leaving my WA22. So next level.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Tube Porn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice, very nice, looking forward to your comments after they have been run in.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Nice, very nice, looking forward to your comments after they have been run in.




I don't have to comment after run in. Straight from new they sound better than anything I have heard. These are super lush. Does that settle or get even better with age? I am the lush king and they even exceed my limit. I might finally have a use for the Tung-Sol 7236 and the Bendix 6080 graphite plate power tubes. As they are more SS sounding. It will tame a little lushness.


----------



## isquirrel

I only have experience with the 6SN7 variety, but yes in my experience they improve a lot over the initial 100 hours


----------



## effles

Well, they're finally here; Telefunken E88CC. They're new tubes so I'll have to let them burn in for a few days so I'll give full impressions then. I'm enjoying them already, though.


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> Well, they're finally here; Telefunken E88CC. They're new tubes so I'll have to let them burn in for a few days so I'll give full impressions then. I'm enjoying them already, though.


 
  
 Nice...what's that power tube in the pic; I can't see it? Did you land a TS 5998? Great combo with your new E88CC-TKs if that's the case.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> Nice...what's that power tube in the pic; I can't see it? Did you land a TS 5998? Great combo with your new E88CC-TKs if that's the case.
> 
> Enjoy!


 
 Yep, it's the TS 5998, had it for about a week and I absolutely love it.
  
 Thank you so much for the suggestions, you've been very helpful!


----------



## Krutsch

New tubes!
  
 Just when I thought I was finished and had found my favorite pairing, I stumbled across a pair of late '50s . early '60s Telefunken E288CC (which I believe are really Siemens Munich tubes, re-branded as Teleys).
  
 When I first plugged these in, there was a noticeable hum; that has gone away after about 10 hours of use and... wow, what unbelievable warmth and tone. The mids are incredible, although there isn't the same clarity as some others I have (e.g. the new mfg. Tele E88CC-TK). This combo nicely tames the HD-700s.


----------



## musicman59

krutsch said:


> New tubes!
> 
> Just when I thought I was finished and had found my favorite pairing, I stumbled across a pair of late '50s . early '60s Telefunken E288CC (which I believe are really Siemens Munich tubes, re-branded as Teleys).
> 
> When I first plugged these in, there was a noticeable hum; that has gone away after about 10 hours of use and... wow, what unbelievable warmth and tone. The mids are incredible, although there isn't the same clarity as some others I have (e.g. the new mfg. Tele E88CC-TK). This combo nicely tames the HD-700s.


 
  
 that tube damper looks very cool. Is it from Mapleshade?


----------



## Krutsch

musicman59 said:


> that tube damper looks very cool. *Is it from Mapleshade?*


 
  
 It is, in fact, from Mapleshade. It's an experiment and it wasn't very expensive ($35.00 US, IIRC). I have a couple of power tubes that exhibit some sound artifacts (microphonics, I suppose).
  
 With a smaller power tube (TS 7236) it seems to work really well; with one of my WE 421a that has some slight noise that comes and goes, it doesn't seem to quiet the noise. It may have to do with position or maybe it just doesn't really work.
  
 It's a brass collar with three adjustable contact points that gets super hot when the tube heats up and takes longer to cool down than the tube does, itself; if it's acting as a heat-sink, that could be a good thing for tube life. It also comes with a little copper ribbon that you attach to the amp to act as a ground. In theory, this will "shield" the tube from EMI/RFI effects. At one time I was struggling with this, with a number of tubes, but I simply moved gear around isolate the Woo from Wi-Fi transceivers and that was the end of that issue.
  
 We'll see... I have to admit, however, that I kind of dig the appearance, snake-oil or not...


----------



## Monsterzero

Looking for some help here:

 I have a WA2+Beyer T1+Senn 600s....I love my T1s but I find myself searching for more bass response.

 Someone else in this thread,long ago, recommended Audeze LCD2s.Luckily my HiFi dealer had a pair that he loaned me.
  
 Before I go on a rant,let me preface by saying the LCD2s were completely brand new,zero break in time.Sadly I dont have the time to break them in.

 That being said,my T1s tore them to pieces.My T1s have less than 100 hours on them,but there wasnt a single song/genre where the Audezes sounded remotely close....except for certain parts of certain songs where female vocals sounded more liquid....other than that the bass was muddy,highs cluttered,and soundstage wasnt even in the same stratosphere.
 So this leads me to my question....can anyone recommend a set of cans(closed or open)that have good bass response and offer good SQ and soundstage that works well with The WA2?


----------



## Krutsch

monsterzero said:


> Looking for some help here:
> 
> I have a WA2+Beyer T1+Senn 600s....I love my T1s but I find myself searching for more bass response.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Try an HD-650. With my WA3 and the right tubes, I wouldn't want more bass than what is provided with that combo, speaking personally. I've read the bass response is significantly increased over the HD-600 and, as you know, the Woo OTLs are killer with the HD-650.


----------



## Khragon

My Elrog failed couple days ago... Sent it back for replacement.. Anyone else experiencing fail elrogs?


----------



## Monsterzero

krutsch said:


> Try an HD-650. With my WA3 and the right tubes, I wouldn't want more bass than what is provided with that combo, speaking personally. I've read the bass response is significantly increased over the HD-600 and, as you know, the Woo OTLs are killer with the HD-650.


 

 Thx for that....I demo'd the 600s vs. 650s back in the day before I chose the 600s.TBH,while I find the 600s to be a good bang for the buck headphone,the only time I use mine are for gaming.

 I really enjoy soundstage and placement on the T1s and my 600s dont offer much,if any of that,and the only diff between 600s vs 650s is bass.

 There has to be a set of cans that work well with the WA2 that do both bass and soundstage well.....Buehler?


----------



## Krutsch

monsterzero said:


> Thx for that....I demo'd the 600s vs. 650s back in the day before I chose the 600s.TBH,while I find the 600s to be a good bang for the buck headphone,the only time I use mine are for gaming.
> 
> I really enjoy soundstage and placement on the T1s and my 600s dont offer much,if any of that,and the only diff between 600s vs 650s is bass.
> 
> There has to be a set of cans that work well with the WA2 that do both bass and soundstage well.....Buehler?


 

 For me, that headphone is the HD-700 (soundstage and enough bass, but not as good as the 650s - obviously the 700s aren't known for bass).
  
 Since you have the T1s, I would think you have the ultimate headphone for the WA2 (I've read this in other threads); just not enough bass?


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here heard the the 596 rectifier and compared it to the brimars from langrex? 
  
 I am thinking of buying a pair of 596's but am wondering if they will be an improvement over the brimars? 
  
  
 Also - Has anyone heard the AVVT 300b super linear and if so would these be an improvement over the EML 300b mesh? 
  
  
 Paddy


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here heard the the 596 rectifier and compared it to the brimars from langrex?
> 
> I am thinking of buying a pair of 596's but am wondering if they will be an improvement over the brimars?
> 
> ...


 
 Gee, I have 2 pair of 586's here in the house!  One of my favorite rectifiers.


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> Gee, I have 2 pair of 586's here in the house!  One of my favorite rectifiers.


 
 you mean 596's? And you will sell them to me cus you love me?


----------



## Monsterzero

krutsch said:


> For me, that headphone is the HD-700 (soundstage and enough bass, but not as good as the 650s - obviously the 700s aren't known for bass).
> 
> Since you have the T1s, I would think you have the ultimate headphone for the WA2 (I've read this in other threads); just not enough bass?


 
 pretty much yes....the T1+WA2 is wonderous...you just dont have right/left you can hear some instruments left,and then something else _farther_ left.some instruments right and then other also right but they sound higher in physical placement....its a whole new way to hear songs youve heard thousands of times.

 Again its the bass,or lack thereof.....Eagles "One of these Nights" opening as an example....there isnt much if any bass response there.
 Black Sabbath "Heaven and Hell" shakes my house when I pump them thru my Golden Ear T2s....but same file plays flat in T1s.

 When I listen to house or Goa trance there is some response from low freq subbass,but midbass virtually none.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Gee, I have 2 pair of 586's here in the house!  One of my favorite rectifiers.
> ...


 
 Clearly I cannot type today...
  
 I wish thee luck in thy quest for the holy and mighty 596!


----------



## MIKELAP

Wyred4sound Dac2 coming in Monday to use balanced with WA22 along with my other amps will see how it compares with the Burson Conductors DAC .not expecting to much


----------



## Badas

^



P.S. I saw the pic the other day of your WA22. Very decent tubes loaded into it. Congrats.


----------



## bpcans

longbowbbs said:


> Gee, I have 2 pair of 586's here in the house!  One of my favorite rectifiers.


+1


----------



## Stereolab42

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here heard the the 596 rectifier and compared it to the brimars from langrex?
> 
> I am thinking of buying a pair of 596's but am wondering if they will be an improvement over the brimars?


 
  
 I have both, the 596 is not worse (both sound great) but that's not really the point... you need to buy it for the looks!


----------



## longbowbbs

stereolab42 said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone here heard the the 596 rectifier and compared it to the brimars from langrex?
> ...


 
 Yep!


----------



## Audioclyde

khragon said:


> My Elrog failed couple days ago... Sent it back for replacement.. Anyone else experiencing fail elrogs?




Especially interested in hearing how this turns out, as well as others Elrog experiences with the 300B--this tube is getting great praise from some very experienced 300B users, but I've seen some threads re failure with the Elrog 845 tube, so I'm hoping that their 300B isn't finicky. 

I'm burning in a pair of Audio Note Quest Silver mono 300B amps in my speaker setup (only using the stock Psvane 300Bs for now), but have the SERP 300bs in my Manley pre/headphone amp and the Takatsuki 300Bs waiting to roll into the Quest Silvers--but really like what I've read about the Elrog 300Bs sound.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kamilion said:


> Hi everyone-
> I am really considering getting a tube amp for my HD800 but i am still wondering if i should maybe get a solid state amp.
> What would compliment it better?
> Many thanks


 
  
 With tubes, you can customize the sound to your system and taste.  WA2 or WA22 pairs very well with HD800.


----------



## nigeljames

kamilion said:


> Hi everyone-
> I am really considering getting a tube amp for my HD800 but i am still wondering if i should maybe get a solid state amp.
> What would compliment it better?
> Many thanks


 
  
 Depends on what your feeling are towards to HD800.
  
 If you like then but feel they have faults ( the most common ones are lacking bass, bright or thin sounding) then a tube amp that will help in those areas would be my recommendation.
  
 If you don't hear the faults mentioned above and want to keep the stengths of the HD800 of great speed, detail and bass control (amonst others) then SS would work well.
  
 The HD800's require and need a good amp but that does not have to mean expensive.
 All IMO of course.


----------



## Krutsch

kamilion said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> HiFiGuy528-Nice setup!
> I feel the HD800 may sound with too much "sss", I don't know what's the proper word to describe it. It is probably caused by *too much treble.*
> I think for my taste* it needs to be smoothed*


 

 That's exactly what a tube amp will help with... with the right tubes, of course.


----------



## effles

Well, ****. One of my Telefunkens died on the way to university, so I'll have to replace that. In the mean time, it's back to the stocks....


----------



## Krutsch

... with two simple tools: the Internet and a credit card


----------



## effles

Hahahaha, yep. Unfortunately, as a student, that's a pretty big hit. Oh well, a new one is on the way, should be here next week.


----------



## Khragon

audioclyde said:


> Especially interested in hearing how this turns out, as well as others Elrog experiences with the 300B--this tube is getting great praise from some very experienced 300B users, but I've seen some threads re failure with the Elrog 845 tube, so I'm hoping that their 300B isn't finicky.
> 
> I'm burning in a pair of Audio Note Quest Silver mono 300B amps in my speaker setup (only using the stock Psvane 300Bs for now), but have the SERP 300bs in my Manley pre/headphone amp and the Takatsuki 300Bs waiting to roll into the Quest Silvers--but really like what I've read about the Elrog 300Bs sound.




Will update when I get words back, so far it has been smooth. I would really like the warranty to be at least a year, 6 months us a bit too short when you take tube rolling into consideration. Those with elrogs, I recommend using them as much as possible during the warranty period.

On other notes, score for myself a pair of reissue we300b.. Will compare them to elrogs when I get my replacement


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> My Elrog failed couple days ago... Sent it back for replacement.. Anyone else experiencing fail elrogs?


 

 Had an issue which was handled very quickly by the Distributor, up to 150 hours on my new set now, Matt and I are both finding the best paring is with the Tak 274B. Also burning a new pair Takatsuki's (unfortunate mishap) seems I am stuck in burn in hell forever.


----------



## Moxhel

Hey guys have a quick question for you; I have owned my WA6-SE for the past few months now but lately I've been hearing some quite harsh peaking through my T1's, it seems to start after the 2nd or 3rd hour of the amp being on and once it's there I can not get it to go away. I'm not sure exactly, but could it be picking up some interference from things around it? All my gear is setup on the same table, so I'm thinking it is either that or microphonics interfering with the signal. 

 Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## dazzerfong

Hey guys, I'm interested in the WA7 right now (not strongly, thanks to its extremely high price down under), but would like to clear up a few queries:
  
 1. Besides RCA, are there other analog inputs (ie. 3.5mm?)
 2. The manual says the USB DAC requires Windows drivers, but doesn't mention for other stuff like Android. If my phone supports USB audio through OTG, would it work with the WA7?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## bonesnv

*EDIT:  *


----------



## DigitalFreak

Hi guys, pardon for disturbing the thread and posting what's probably been a very annoying question but I need HELLLPPPP!!!

I just recently invested in a Cavalli Carbon and have started planning out my final desktop rig. Besides the Carbon I also have a WA6 which I rather like a lot. Here's the problem, my current DAC is a CLAS-db and according to well versed ears who have heard the pairing it won't cut the mustard when it's paired with the Carbon. It's getting by with the WA6 but I'm not to happy with that pairing either. Can anyone here maybe point me towards a good DAC that could do double duty with both the amps I've mentioned? I'd prefer something that had both a single end and balanced out but if the DAC is highly regarded I could live with just single end unbalanced out. My budget would be between 750 to a 1000. Maybe slightly more but I'd have to really be convinced it's worth it to shell out much more then a 1000.


----------



## tdegrand

The Metrum DACs are highly regarded and below is one for sale.
  
 METRUM ACOUSTIC OCTAVE MKII NOS DAC / 192K HZ with optional USB input
 Read more at http://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-metrum-acoustic-octave-mkii-nos-dac-192k-hz-with-optional-usb-input-2015-04-09-digital-l9t-6x4#XO65YV8RIBCuBFzP.99


----------



## akart

Picture of my rig:


----------



## Khragon

Very nice, silver Woo ftw!


----------



## Khragon

Got my WE300B! I'm done with hunting for 300Bs now, between WE300B, Elrog and SERP I'm set.
 I listen to mainly vocal tracks and it's definitely is smoother than the SERP, voices sounded sweeter and not as harsh.  However the SERP isn't far behind.  Going from memory the Elrog is just as sweet too with vocal tracks.  Too bad I'm still waiting for my Elrog, else I can do more direct comparison.  Factory is not issuing RMA until they receive my set, they wanted to examine my set to see what cause the failure.
  

  

  
 I'm selling the SERP if anyone is interested, I would like to keep them, but got to recoup the fund.


----------



## musicman59

Wow! WE 300B, WE Rectifiers and TS 6F8G! the best of the best. Congrats!


----------



## Khragon

Thanks, enjoying my system immensely.. tube rolling is an expensive hobby.  Spent my Yggy fund on the WE300B, no regrets, but now I got to off load some tubes to gain back some of that.  Any Woo'er getting Yggy?


----------



## fhuang

drool.....


----------



## fhuang

akart said:


> Picture of my rig:


 
  
  
 and yes, that's how you build a rig for the t1.  wa2 when you needed a tube sound and a corda classic for ss.  i heard both with the t1.  wonderful setup


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> Got my WE300B! I'm done with hunting for 300Bs now, between WE300B, Elrog and SERP I'm set.
> I listen to mainly vocal tracks and it's definitely is smoother than the SERP, voices sounded sweeter and not as harsh.  However the SERP isn't far behind.  Going from memory the Elrog is just as sweet too with vocal tracks.  Too bad I'm still waiting for my Elrog, else I can do more direct comparison.  Factory is not issuing RMA until they receive my set, they wanted to examine my set to see what cause the failure.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Beautful tubes, just burned in my 2nd set of Takatsuki's (don't go there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and my 3rd set of Elrog's this time both Matt have exact same setup's so could;d compare notes re burn in.
  
 No doubt best rectifier for the Elrog is the Takatsuki 274B the Mullard GZ34 metal base is good but a bit lean, the Tak 274B add's substantially more bass, texture and all the good stuff.
  
 Now for the bad news, I seriously throught something had broken in my system it sounded so bad until I cracked the 200 hour mark, further improvements but much less dramatic still going on as they pass the 250 hour mark. Note at 150 hours it was so bad I thought my hearing had gone bad, dramatic change at 200+ a different sounding tube from there.
  
 Elrog's not so hard, sound is pretty consistent but does improve nicely through the 100 hour mark.
  
 Have some serious (insanity) upgrades coming over the next 2 months.
  
 Now to run in the 300B's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I prefer the Takatsuki's over the WE300B's and the Elrog's are really in a different category as they only thing they have in common with 300B's of yore are the pins.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> Got my WE300B! I'm done with hunting for 300Bs now, between WE300B, Elrog and SERP I'm set.
> I listen to mainly vocal tracks and it's definitely is smoother than the SERP, voices sounded sweeter and not as harsh.  However the SERP isn't far behind.  Going from memory the Elrog is just as sweet too with vocal tracks.  Too bad I'm still waiting for my Elrog, else I can do more direct comparison.  Factory is not issuing RMA until they receive my set, they wanted to examine my set to see what cause the failure.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Now all you need is some 234's to really make those valves sing


----------



## Khragon

isquirrel said:


> Now all you need is some 234's to really make those valves sing


 
 Haha, the valves maybe singing, but I'll be choking from my wife's strangle hold.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> Haha, the valves maybe singing, but I'll be choking from my wife's strangle hold.


 

 Lol, I truly understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that's why I spend most of my time now listening to my head-fi setup, big systems and late night listening sessions invariably led to another argument with my wife over “proper listening levels” and whether or not I’d be allowed to have the remote back. Whoops, another divorce. Women and high fi like oil and water most of the time.
  
Now I am in my room "not disturbing others" listening to Head-Fi the replacement GF couldn't care less (as long as their's no comments on her ridiculously expensive beauty cream) Seriously I cannot get over how many 300B's worth of face cream gets used.
  
There are cunning ways to convince her you've done the deal of the century - they never look the stuff up.......


----------



## isquirrel

Anyone interested in LCD-3F's and X's like new, vegan style bought in - (X's July 14) (3F's Nov 14) with carry cases etc etc.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Anyone interested in LCD-3F's and X's like new, vegan style bought in - (X's July 14) (3F's Nov 14) with carry cases etc etc.


 

 Has the Abyss won????


----------



## isquirrel

Yep, had to buy a pair and get used to the very different from the norm hanging off the ears thing. I had no choice, Matt kept 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 until I did it.
  
 Glad I did, nothing else like it. I thought the Audeze's had decent bass, lol, these things = different league.
  
 Even FC GF likes them which is a huge turnaround from the "you look ridiculous" stance a while ago, wallet be dammed!!


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Yep, had to buy a pair and get used to the very different from the norm hanging off the ears thing. I had no choice, Matt kept
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. What is your thoughts of the mid-range and treble? I just can't pry myself away from the Audeze mid-range. Bass is nice but I don't crave it.


----------



## fhuang

isquirrel said:


> Now all you need is some 234's to really make those valves sing


 
  
  
 i heard you saying 234 is better than wa5 before, but sound signature wise, how close are they?  of course using the same tubes combinations.


----------



## Khragon

fhuang said:


> i heard you saying 234 is better than wa5 before, but sound signature wise, how close are they?  of course using the same tubes combinations.


 
 *lying to myself*
 They're the same...same great Woo 300B signature, romantic, sweet non fatiguing sound.  No need to spend the extra dough for 234.. really no need.


----------



## fhuang

khragon said:


> *lying to myself*
> They're the same...same great Woo 300B signature, romantic, sweet non fatiguing sound.  No need to spend the extra dough for 234.. really no need.


 
  
  
  
 you know i was asking it for you


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> Got my WE300B! I'm done with hunting for 300Bs now, between WE300B, Elrog and SERP I'm set.
> I listen to mainly vocal tracks and it's definitely is smoother than the SERP, voices sounded sweeter and not as harsh.  However the SERP isn't far behind.  Going from memory the Elrog is just as sweet too with vocal tracks.  Too bad I'm still waiting for my Elrog, else I can do more direct comparison.  Factory is not issuing RMA until they receive my set, they wanted to examine my set to see what cause the failure.


 
  
 Nice, what year are your WE300Bs?


----------



## isquirrel

fhuang said:


> i heard you saying 234 is better than wa5 before, but sound signature wise, how close are they?  of course using the same tubes combinations.




I have not heard the two Amps side by side with the same tubes so I'm not going to go there. Matt on the other hand owned a WA5 SE, hopefully he will chime in.

I do know he has not heard them side by with the same level of tubes he has now. I think the relevant point he made is that the 234 running stock tubes outperforms the WA5 on good NOS tubes by a substantial margin. When you are getting into the rarified levels of WE300B's, 422a's, Takatsuki's, Elrog's etc that's not going to be an easy comparison.

Will there be a difference yes, quantifying how much (not getting involved in any value equations) is best left to someone who has owned both. I have never had a WA5.


----------



## Khragon

stereolab42 said:


> Nice, what year are your WE300Bs?


 
 They are coded 0539, so I guess September, 2005.  They're reissue tubes.  I wouldn't dare touch the vintage ones.
  


isquirrel said:


> ... the 234 running stock tubes outperforms the WA5 on good NOS tubes by a substantial margin. When you are getting into the rarified levels of WE300B's, 422a's, Takatsuki's, Elrog's etc that's not going to be an easy comparison.


 
 I wonder what the differences in the circuit are?  It's pretty cool that the 234 can do 45 and 2A3 tubes too, unfortunately my journey ends at the WA5.  My next purchase will be a the schiit Yggy, and then another HP, possibly Hifiman HE1K or McIntosh MHP1000 and finally a good SS amp.


----------



## Krutsch

khragon said:


> They are coded 0539, so I guess September, 2005.  They're reissue tubes.  I wouldn't dare touch the vintage ones.


 
  
 Pretty cool stuff (and get pics). I looked at WE's website, which is also pretty cool (archived specs for all of their tubes).
  
 Where did you get these? Their product pages lists all of their reissue tubes as TBD for price and availability. I wonder if they are still making new tubes.


----------



## Khragon

krutsch said:


> Pretty cool stuff (and get pics). I looked at WE's website, which is also pretty cool (archived specs for all of their tubes).
> 
> Where did you get these? Their product pages lists all of their reissue tubes as TBD for price and availability. I wonder if they are still making new tubes.


 

 Unfortunately WE is no longer producing any tubes that I know of.  I got these on eBay.


----------



## kokushu

I recently got a good deal on a stax sr 009.  I then quickly order the woo audio wee (wheeeeee).  I probably going to try it on my WA5 and my vintage yamaha ca 1010.  Anybody got any experience with the wee could give me on some heads up on the in and out of using it?  Will the wee do the sr 009 justice or should I look for something else?


----------



## Khragon

Schiit Yggdrasil live today... arg! and no taker for my tubes.  guess I'll miss the first batch and to eBay these tubes will go.


----------



## kokushu

Order my Schitt Yggy this morning.  Got one day shipping so it should be here tomorrow.  Going to plug that in and test it with my current setup and wait for my sr 009 to arrive.


----------



## isquirrel

Vertere Pulse HB USB cable has turned up, brand new so no in depth listening impressions until its has some time on it. Does sound smooth and rich, but mids and vocals are recessed out of the box. Good news is its not bright.


----------



## DigitalFreak

isquirrel said:


> Vertere Pulse HB USB cable has turned up, brand new so no in depth listening impressions until its has some time on it. Does sound smooth and rich, but mids and vocals are recessed out of the box. Good news is its not bright.




Nice cable, I've never heard of Vetere. Are they a European outfit or American?


----------



## isquirrel

English manufacturer


----------



## effles

Anyone heard the ~1960s Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88 in a Wa3?
 Looking at buying a pair.


----------



## bpcans

One day deals on the Sophia Electric tubes website. Have a look.


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> Anyone heard the ~1960s Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88 in a Wa3?
> Looking at buying a pair.


 
  
 Yes... they are fine, but not my favorite tubes, IIRC. It's been awhile since I've listened to mine, to be fair.
  
 Did you replace your broken E88CC-TK?


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> Yes... they are fine, but not my favorite tubes, IIRC. It's been awhile since I've listened to mine, to be fair.
> 
> Did you replace your broken E88CC-TK?


 
 Yeah, I did, and now there's a problem with my other original TK. Kind of annoying. Not sure if I can be bothered to order another one or try a different pair.
  
 Any other suggestions that aren't outrageously expensive?


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> Yeah, I did, and now there's a problem with my other original TK. Kind of annoying. Not sure if I can be bothered to order another one or try a different pair.
> 
> Any other suggestions that aren't outrageously expensive?


 
  
 That sucks and I feel bad for recommending the TKs. Mine have been flawless, and I still like their sound, but maybe I was just lucky.
  
 You sort of have three choices with tubes:
  
 1. Buy NOS tubes from a reputable dealer --> $$$$, but a good experience if you are willing to pay;
  
 Example: https://tubedepot.com/t/tubes/preamp-tubes/6dj8-6922-ecc88-e88cc-cv2492
  
 Or, go crazy: https://tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-diamond-bottom-cca-gold-pin
  
 2. Take a chance on eBay --> hit or miss; so far, I feel like I've done well, but it's still not cheap and you need to do your homework;
  
 See: http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8
  
  
 3. Buy newly manufactured tubes from a dealer (i.e. your failed TKs) --> less money, easier to replace, and (from some) questionable SQ.
  
*My advice*: take it slow and do some reading on the tube threads (recognizing that opinions are just that and not everyone likes the same thing).
  
 Start with something that has near universal appeal. enjoy them for a while, and avoid the search for "Holy Grail" tubes - that costs real money and is never-ending.
  
 But, to answer your question, try these:
  
https://tubedepot.com/products/philips-miniwatt-sq-e88cc-6922-gold-pin-holland
  
 *And, no, I don't work for tube depot.


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> That sucks and I feel bad for recommending the TKs. Mine have been flawless, and I still like their sound, but maybe I was just lucky.
> 
> You sort of have three choices with tubes:
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, it's not your fault at all! They're great sounding tubes, but I'm probably just unlucky.
  
 Thank you so much for the suggestions, I'll definitely consider all the options, but those Philips look great. Thanks!


----------



## DigitalFreak

has anyone here tried pairing a Woo amp with a Chord DAC?


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Vertere Pulse HB USB cable has turned up, brand new so no in depth listening impressions until its has some time on it. Does sound smooth and rich, but mids and vocals are recessed out of the box. Good news is its not bright.


 
  
 Cool stuff... jealous, as usual.
  
 You know, when you said you had some insane upgrades coming, I was very curious to see how you would level-up from the SHUNYATA RESEARCH power equipment. Not bad, achievement unlocked, but I have higher expectations from you, Simon.
Can't wait to see what's next 





  
 Here's my latest upgrade, FWIW (which has postponed my next Woo amp):


----------



## isquirrel

Lol, well Ken I see I should share my plans for upgrades, shooting for the ultimate here, so will not be talking about cost  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 First report on the Vertere HB USB cable (also posted in the Abyss forum)
  
Out of the box the cable was a little recessed in the mids and highs, but rich in timbre, I then left it on burn in for 3 hours came back to it and I was shocked. I have been around for a while, so I was not expecting the dramatic change in sound. Left on burn in using the Purist Audio Design system enhancer CD and well, this cable is incredible, easily the best USB cable I have heard, it absolutely stomps over the Light Harmonic LightSpeed in every department. Tonally full of texture and a sonic window painted with superb tonal colours, utterly non fatiguing. Mids and highs are now blossoming nicely. I did not think digital could sound this textured and full. Bass extension and weight is renditioned with great accuracy as the soundstage width and height. I had to call Touraj and congratulate him and order the Ethernet cable.

He is visiting soon and said if I send him the specs of the Abyss headphones he will make up HB cables for those and bring them over to Sydney in June. A+ for effort.

Please bear in mind this is with only 15 hours on the USB, makes the LightSpeed sound sterile, thin and well I am glad to be rid of it. Turns out that upper mid leanness was the LightSpeed cable.
  
**Update now at 50+ hours and improved further, can't detect major changes happening to the sound now, remarkable cable. 

Slam dunk, this one is a winner, now for the CAD cable to turn up.
  
*Power:*
  
Shunyata have announced the Triton V2, also been eyeing off the Sigma PC's, already have 1 Sigma HC running from the wall outlet to the Triton - will be replacing the Alpha HC's with 2 x Sigma Digital for the DAC and Music Server & 2 x Sigma HC's for the Woo 234's
  
*Music Server:*
  
​Currently running the Antipodes DX however it is the source so debated the Baetis but went for the Computer Audio Design CAT, that makes USB as the only digital out, the DaVInci needs that for high res so yep I have heard all the arguments over AES/SPDIF etc not going to get drawn into that the DaVinci was designed with USB as its primary input, that the way it is. The CAT has its own external custom power supply feeding power via a property cable to the CAT so that keeps noise away from the Server.
  

  
*Cables:*
  
Peter from Double Helix is making some Spore 4 Fusion balanced cables for the Abyss and matching XLR interconnects. I will also be trying out the Vertere HB headphone cables and IC's in June to see what difference they make.
  
*Isolation:*
  
Recently had an issue with the current perch for the equipment so had to move it all temporarily to the Granite kitchen bench (you can just image how that went down 





) and even though using HRS MX3 bases, noticed a major difference for the better, so after sourcing a hybrid lightweight concrete coffee table top and fitting it to the existing table the sound is not as it was on the Granite. So that mean't I had to consider going the whole hog and get a proper HRS stand. That's being built now - 8 weeks away, it will be 3 high 2 wide in Silver, apparently there is a 40% performance increase over using the bases alone. The Shunyata gear and the Server will have damping plates on their tops.
  


*DAC:*
  
 Can't say to much as I am under an NDA but the DaVinci is returning to LH soon for some love, will be able to update on this very soon.
  
*Valves:*
  
 Not so good news here, 3rd set of Elrog's failed, this time one lost vacuum. Shame as they sound great.


----------



## isquirrel

Photo of current setup


----------



## Khragon

What a view! .. oh and WA234 looks nice too.
  


isquirrel said:


> *Valves:*
> 
> Not so good news here, 3rd set of Elrog's failed, this time one lost vacuum. Shame as they sound great.


 
 Not good! I hope they fix the problem, I don't want to have these tubes failing on me after the 6month warranty.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> What a view! .. oh and WA234 looks nice too.
> 
> Not good! I hope they fix the problem, I don't want to have these tubes failing on me after the 6month warranty.


 

 No its not, I wouldn't be so P******F if they didn't sound so good in front of the Tak 274's. Matt loves the paring too. My gut feel all along is that there is nothing wrong with the Tubes themselves, its a weakness in the base issue, I only took these ones out once but when the opines are longer than normal so you have to give them a bit of pouch to seat them, I suspect the last time I did I heard a slight noise form the tube that failed, and sure enough 70 hours later it lost most of its gain and sounded horrible. Now I am not talking about pushing them down hard because I am extra careful with these and use probably less force to seat them than "normal" valves but nevertheless....... I haven't managed to get hold of the importer yet.


----------



## Khragon

One of my elrog that failed reported short on my tube tester! lucky my WA5 is fine.  The other measured below minimum.  All this in less than a month of ownership, really sucks.  I'm seriously thinking of just selling the Elrog and get Tak instead when I get the replacement in.


----------



## djd1122

isquirrel said:


> *Cables:*
> Peter from Double Helix is making some Spore 4 Fusion balanced cables for the Abyss and matching XLR interconnects. I will also be trying out the Vertere HB headphone cables and IC's in June to see what difference they make.


 
  
 I would also give the Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR interconnect a try.  I preferred the Zitron Anaconda XLR to the Stealth Sakra XLR interconnect when using Shunyata Zitron, Alpha or Sigma power cords.  The Stealth Sakra had a warmer, fuller sound but didn't have the high frequency euphoria compared to the Zitron Anaconda XLR.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> One of my elrog that failed reported short on my tube tester! lucky my WA5 is fine.  The other measured below minimum.  All this in less than a month of ownership, really sucks.  I'm seriously thinking of just selling the Elrog and get Tak instead when I get the replacement in.


 

 Just got off the phone with the Australian importer, very understanding and is sending up replacements. He is off to Germany and will be raising the issue of the bases with the manufacturer. Maybe they need to use normal black bases which bond better to the glass.


----------



## DigitalFreak




----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> One of my elrog that failed reported short on my tube tester! lucky my WA5 is fine.  The other measured below minimum.  All this in less than a month of ownership, really sucks.  I'm seriously thinking of just selling the Elrog and get Tak instead when I get the replacement in.


 

 The Tak's are seriously tough, before my cup of coffee one morning I pulled one of the 300B's out and smacked it hard into the Tak 274B next to it, so hard in fact, it put a small scratch in the side of the 300B and 274B and then in shock dropped the 274B on the floor (carpet) not one of best audio moments, and they still worked fine


----------



## isquirrel

djd1122 said:


> I would also give the Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR interconnect a try.  I preferred the Zitron Anaconda XLR to the Stealth Sakra XLR interconnect when using Shunyata Zitron, Alpha or Sigma power cords.  The Stealth Sakra had a warmer, fuller sound but didn't have the high frequency euphoria compared to the Zitron Anaconda XLR.


 

 Tried the Cobra Anaconda's and felt they were good but did not have the richness I was after. So far preferred IC is the Cardas Clear.


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> The Tak's are seriously tough, before my cup of coffee one morning I pulled one of the 300B's out and smacked it hard into the Tak 274B next to it, so hard in fact, it put a small scratch in the side of the 300B and 274B and then in shock dropped the 274B on the floor (carpet) not one of best audio moments, and they still worked fine


After reading this post I had a vision of impending disaster. With all the ultra high-end gear in your crib It would be terrible if some small animal or perhaps a clumsy human initiated a cascade effect of biblical dimension. You don't have earthquakes in Melbourne do you?


----------



## isquirrel

Clumsy Human is bigger problem!


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Lol, well Ken I see I should share my plans for upgrades, shooting for the ultimate here, so you will not be talking about cost


 
  
 Wow, impressive...  Well, let's see, ahh... I have a new Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 headphone cable...


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> *Music Server:*
> 
> ​Currently running the Antipodes DX however it is the source so debated the Baetis but went for the* Computer Audio Design CAT*, that makes USB as the only digital out, the DaVInci needs that for high res so yep I have heard all the arguments over AES/SPDIF etc not going to get drawn into that the DaVinci was designed with USB as its primary input, that the way it is. The CAT has its own external custom power supply feeding power via a property cable to the CAT so that keeps noise away from the Server.


 
  
 On a more serious note, please do report back on your impressions, with respect to the CAD CAT.  I recently changed my source to a Bryston BDP-1 with a pair of Corsair Flash drives (512GB + 128GB) which holds my 2-channel library. I was quite surprised by the difference, sound-wise, coming from a MacBook Retina - I don't think I've ever heard anything sound like this, and I am now a believer in a dedicated, purpose-built computer as a digital source.
  
 On the software side, however, I had some challenges understanding MPD (the internal Linux player) and to / not to load music on it; Bryston is still finishing up their major UI re-write. I will be curious to hear how the out-of-box experience is for you with the CAT.
  
 Congrats on winning Head-Fi...


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> On a more serious note, please do report back on your impressions, with respect to the CAD CAT.  I recently changed my source to a Bryston BDP-1 with a pair of Corsair Flash drives (512GB + 128GB) which holds my 2-channel library. I was quite surprised by the difference, sound-wise, coming from a MacBook Retina - I don't think I've ever heard anything sound like this, and I am now a believer in a dedicated, purpose-built computer as a digital source.
> 
> On the software side, however, I had some challenges understanding MPD (the internal Linux player) and to / not to load music on it; Bryston is still finishing up their major UI re-write. I will be curious to hear how the out-of-box experience is for you with the CAT.
> 
> Congrats on winning Head-Fi...


 

 I was exactly the same, I fought the idea of a dedicated music server until I received the Antipodes DX, I was dead wrong made a big difference/improvement to the sound.
  
 Scott Berry form CAD takes the whole server thing to a different level. Its being built now so will be interesting indeed. FWIW I found that storing all my music files directly on the server was much better sonically than on a NAS


----------



## isquirrel

Found this on WBF out of some Zanden amp, now that's a big tube, they are using a 300B as the driver


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Found this on WBF out of some Zanden amp, now that's a big tube, they are using a 300B as the driver


 
  
 Looks like a WE212. Big mother.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> I was exactly the same, I fought the idea of a dedicated music server until I received the Antipodes DX, I was dead wrong made a big difference/improvement to the sound.
> 
> Scott Berry form CAD takes the whole server thing to a different level. Its being built now so will be interesting indeed. *FWIW I found that storing all my music files directly on the server was much better sonically than on a NAS*


 
  
 +1 ... I experimented with DLNA (MinimServer, which is great), NAS, attached USB HDD and Flash drives.  Flash drives for the win - very low noise - and one of the reasons I like the Bryston, as it's easy to plug in a bunch of thumb drives and the unit just aggregates all of the files.


----------



## xevman

hey guys i currently own a woo audio wa6 and ive owned it for quite some time now 2 years and have it paired with my HD600s I love the amp and i want to improve the sonic characteristics of it. Currently it has a Sofia Princess rectifier and rca 6fd7 fat bottle tubes. On the Woo website it states the 6gl7/6em7 is the best driver tube for this amp (im aware it needs adapters). Would this be a good option to upgrade to? can anyone vouch for these driver tubes?


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> Found this on WBF out of some Zanden amp, now that's a big tube, they are using a 300B as the driver


 
  
 *&(#$# me. You know you've got a hardcore amp when it uses 300Bs as DRIVERS! (And that's clearly just one channel...)
  
 I'm glad I didn't jump on the Elrog bandwagon. It seems new tube manufactures always go through about a five-ten year period of extreme unreliability before they figure it out...


----------



## Porteroso

xevman said:


> hey guys i currently own a woo audio wa6 and ive owned it for quite some time now 2 years and have it paired with my HD600s I love the amp and i want to improve the sonic characteristics of it. Currently it has a Sofia Princess rectifier and rca 6fd7 fat bottle tubes. On the Woo website it states the 6gl7/6em7 is the best driver tube for this amp (im aware it needs adapters). Would this be a good option to upgrade to? can anyone vouch for these driver tubes?



Hi! No! Go another route. I will type more out when I get home.


----------



## xevman

porteroso said:


> Hi! No! Go another route. I will type more out when I get home.


 
 alright waiting eagerly for your opinion


----------



## Porteroso

xevman said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > Hi! No! Go another route. I will type more out when I get home.
> ...


 
 Well, I think most of the WA6 owners here would recommend getting either 6SN7 adapters, or 6F8G adapters. They are somewhat expensive, but those tubes are by far the best, or at least that is the general opinion. The best of them are the TS rp 6SN7/6F8G, and the NU 6F8G is also amazing. For cheaper, the RCAs are pretty good, and I got a pair of Melz 6H8C, which are very neutral and clean sounding. I do like them. But for transparency, depth, soundstage, detail, the Tung Sol and the National Unions take the prize, I think.
  
 For the adapters, Woo and Glenn make very good ones. They are roughly the same price, I think. I have the 6SN7 adapters from Woo, they are very solid. And I have Glenn's 6DE7-->6F8G adapters as well. Both flawless. In my opinion, 6F8G is the way to go, because from what everyone can tell, the tubes are mostly identical sounding, if made the same way. And they are much cheaper. There are a few, like the RCA red base, the Melz, that are only in 6SN7, not 6F8G, but as 6SN7 was a replacement for 6F8G, and they are electrically equivalent, the main tubes are available in both.


----------



## xevman

porteroso said:


> Well, I think most of the WA6 owners here would recommend getting either 6SN7 adapters, or 6F8G adapters. They are somewhat expensive, but those tubes are by far the best, or at least that is the general opinion. The best of them are the TS rp 6SN7/6F8G, and the NU 6F8G is also amazing. For cheaper, the RCAs are pretty good, and I got a pair of Melz 6H8C, which are very neutral and clean sounding. I do like them. But for transparency, depth, soundstage, detail, the Tung Sol and the National Unions take the prize, I think.
> 
> For the adapters, Woo and Glenn make very good ones. They are roughly the same price, I think. I have the 6SN7 adapters from Woo, they are very solid. And I have Glenn's 6DE7-->6F8G adapters as well. Both flawless. In my opinion, 6F8G is the way to go, because from what everyone can tell, the tubes are mostly identical sounding, if made the same way. And they are much cheaper. There are a few, like the RCA red base, the Melz, that are only in 6SN7, not 6F8G, but as 6SN7 was a replacement for 6F8G, and they are electrically equivalent, the main tubes are available in both.


 
 Id be interested to try the 6f8g tubes and since you say they are electrically equivalent to the 6sn7 would that mean i can use 6sn7 adapters or would i need to buy an adapter specially for the 6f8g tubes.


----------



## xevman

xevman said:


> Id be interested to try the 6f8g tubes and since you say they are electrically equivalent to the 6sn7 would that mean i can use 6sn7 adapters or would i need to buy an adapter specially for the 6f8g tubes.


 
 actually nvm i just realised theyre different. In my area 6F8G tubes are difficult to get a hold of and have no idea where to get such adapter from


----------



## Porteroso

If you get the 6DE7 --> 6SN7 adapter from Woo, you can just get a 6SN7 --> 6F8G adapter from ebay. Most of them work just fine. Alternatively, Glenn can make you a single adapter for 6DE7 --> 6F8G. Of course then, you won't have access to 6SN7. I have all options at this point, but I will only really be stocking up on the 6F8G tubes from now on. Just cheaper, and money is tight around here. Also, I really only care for the Tung Sol and National Union VT-99s at this point, they are the ones worth stocking up on. Even if I sell this amp one day, the tubes will only appreciate, finite supply and all.
  
 Also, in other news, I ordered a U52, hoping it can beat out the Brimar 5Z4G by a significant margin; it will have to, to be worth keeping.


----------



## MIKELAP

xevman said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I think most of the WA6 owners here would recommend getting either 6SN7 adapters, or 6F8G adapters. They are somewhat expensive, but those tubes are by far the best, or at least that is the general opinion. The best of them are the TS rp 6SN7/6F8G, and the NU 6F8G is also amazing. For cheaper, the RCAs are pretty good, and I got a pair of Melz 6H8C, which are very neutral and clean sounding. I do like them. But for transparency, depth, soundstage, detail, the Tung Sol and the National Unions take the prize, I think.
> ...


 
   Got my 6F8G adapters from Glenn


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Got my 6F8G adapters from Glenn


 
  
  


  
  
 That's weird. On mine he made the wires come out the sides. Kinda balanced. On your WA22 they look kinda random.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Got my 6F8G adapters from Glenn
> ...


 

 That because they were made for my WA6 the adapters for the WA22 are on there way i should get them this week .It wasnt working out one wire was on the inside and that was making noise They should be like yours


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> That because they were made for my WA6 the adapters for the WA22 are on there way i should get them this week .It wasnt working out one wire was on the inside and that was making noise They should be like yours


 

 Cool. They look great with the black wires. I think I will ask Glenn to make me another set. Also I will see if he has black caps.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > That because they were made for my WA6 the adapters for the WA22 are on there way i should get them this week .It wasnt working out one wire was on the inside and that was making noise They should be like yours
> ...


 

 Dark brown US made NOS almost black


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


>


 
 I'm a bit confused with the adapter set up in your WA6.
 Why are you still using Woo adapter between Glenns 6F8G adapters, and not plugging Glenns 6DE7>6F8G adapter directly into your WA6?
 Are those not Glenns 6DE7>6F8G your using Woo 6DE7>6SN7>6F8G?


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

 Just a matter of cost .


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> Just a matter of cost .


 
 So those are 6SN7>6F8G adapters…not 6DE7>6F8G adapters?


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Just a matter of cost .
> ...


 

 Yes 6SN7 >6F8G


----------



## Porteroso

Just got the U52 in... First thoughts, this will take some getting used to, but I see why it's in that top 3 or 4 rectifiers. The Brimar 5Z4G is much warmer, especially around the mids/upper bass. This U52 is pretty neutral, which gives some much needed space to the upper mids/lower treble. I didn't realize what I was missing. Detail is a bit more, tonality is more accurate, and the speed.... Oh god, the speed, the decay. I was halfway hoping it wouldn't be worth keeping, and I could turn around and sell it, but... no.
  
 I also appreciate the lower Brimar 5Z4G much more though, it is a great tube. It is probably a bit more forgiving, and definitely warmer. No way the U52 is "worth" 20x the price, but then, what is sound worth to all of us? Hard to say. But I'm glad I bought it.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Dark brown US made NOS almost black


 
  
 Sounds like a plan. I will need to work out how to get it to me. Do you ship overseas?
 Is the cap a little like this?
  

  
  


porteroso said:


> Just got the U52 in... First thoughts, this will take some getting used to, but I see why it's in that top 3 or 4 rectifiers. The Brimar 5Z4G is much warmer, especially around the mids/upper bass. This U52 is pretty neutral, which gives some much needed space to the upper mids/lower treble. I didn't realize what I was missing. Detail is a bit more, tonality is more accurate, and the speed.... Oh god, the speed, the decay. I was halfway hoping it wouldn't be worth keeping, and I could turn around and sell it, but... no.
> 
> I also appreciate the lower Brimar 5Z4G much more though, it is a great tube. It is probably a bit more forgiving, and definitely warmer. No way the U52 is "worth" 20x the price, but then, what is sound worth to all of us? Hard to say. But I'm glad I bought it.


 

 Thanks for your impressions. Warm is so me. I try to avoid neutral. So I will stay with the Brimar 5Z4GY.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Dark brown US made NOS almost black
> ...


 
 The cap is a bit different it was made by Hobson Bros Chicago they are dark brown almost black.
 I do ship overseas it will probably be $25 for USPS priority mail shipping.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> The cap is a bit different it was made by Hobson Bros Chicago they are dark brown almost black.
> I do ship overseas it will probably be $25 for USPS priority mail shipping.


 

 Ohhh. That sounds nice. I thought you were kidding about NOS and made in the USA. Obviously you were not.
  
 Okay done. I will contact you soon via PM.


----------



## bamboo5354

Just got a wa22 in black, the letters are so hard to see on the black finish so I did a little something on it.


----------



## joseph69

bamboo5354 said:


> Just got a wa22 in black, the letters are so hard to see on the black finish so I did a little something on it.


 
 Congratulations!
 Nice job with the white lettering…its the small thing that make a big difference in aesthetics IMO.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






>


----------



## bamboo5354

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations!
> Nice job with the white lettering…


 
 It is in bronze gold not white lol


----------



## abvolt

looks really good very nice job..


----------



## joseph69

bamboo5354 said:


> It is in bronze gold not white lol


 
 Still looks great!
 Don't mind what I see…I'm legally blind and can't really see in detail, so too me the white still looks really good!


----------



## Badas

bamboo5354 said:


> It is in bronze gold not white lol


 

 How did you do that? A felt pen???
  
 Great job.


----------



## js319

bamboo5354 said:


> Just got a wa22 in black, the letters are so hard to see on the black finish so I did a little something on it.




This looks awesome!


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> bamboo5354 said:
> 
> 
> > It is in bronze gold not white lol
> ...


 

 It is nice, so i tried it i used some water base acrylic paint i had  for arts and crafts that i got at the Dollar store with a very small paint brush you just fill in the letters let dry and remove excess paint dont use a rag to wipe out excess paint use a wet paper towel remove excess water its thinner and will stay on top of letters just wipe across without digging in   you can put a few coats until it looks nice  .


----------



## bamboo5354

mikelap said:


> It is nice, so i tried it i used some water base acrylic paint for arts and crafts that i got at the Dollar store with a very small paint brush you just fill in the letters let dry and remove excess paint dont use a rag to wipe out excess paint use a wet paper towel remove excess water its thinner and will stay on top of letters just wipe across without digging in   you can put a few coats until it looks nice  .



Yep that's what I did except I used oil based paint it would stick on better.


----------



## earthpeople

I prefer the text being blended in and hard to see, but those look very well done!


----------



## Badas

Giving Elton a spin tonight. 

I haven't used SACD a go for a while. To be honest I can't hear a difference. Damn these 3 albums are great.


----------



## bpcans

badas said:


> Giving Elton a spin tonight.
> 
> I haven't used SACD a go for a while. To be honest I can't hear a difference. Damn these 3 albums are great.


I really like Yellow Brick Road, one of my all time favourites.


----------



## masmole

I went to Axpona last week, chatted with Jack and Mike, listened to various Woo amps with everything from LCD3, Beyer T1, HD800 , Ether, and Abyss.

Just when my wallet thought it made it through the show unscathed, I ordered a black WA22 from Jack... even though the last thing I needed was another headphone amp lol

Should ship this week. Already made some space on the shelf. Looking forward to it! 

I ordered it with stock tubes, not upgraded, because I wanted to break it in first, and besides half the fun is rolling tubes later using this thread as my guide.

Oh one more question: is there a high likelihood of noise interference for the tubes if my WA22 shares a shelf with my Mac mini and AirPort Extreme router which have wifi and USB 3.0? Just planning ahead.


----------



## isquirrel

masmole said:


> I went to Axpona last week, chatted with Jack and Mike, listened to various Woo amps with everything from LCD3, Beyer T1, HD800 , Ether, and Abyss.
> 
> Just when my wallet thought it made it through the show unscathed, I ordered a black WA22 from Jack... even though the last thing I needed was another headphone amp lol
> 
> ...


 

 Best to avoid placing valves or for that matter any sensitive electronics close to anything emitting a lot of RF or EMI, great news on your amp, another Woo owner


----------



## masmole

isquirrel said:


> Best to avoid placing valves or for that matter any sensitive electronics close to anything emitting a lot of RF or EMI, great news on your amp, another Woo owner :bigsmile_face:




kindly elaborate... what kind of potential interference should I expect? noise in the music coming from the woo amp, wifi signal drops, or both?

and how close is too close? I read another thread here saying "keep it at least 1 foot away and you're safe". So is 2 feet away enough distance, generally speaking?

I'm curious because I have an even more powerful Jolida EL34 amp at 100wpc driving full size speakers and there is a wireless access point (router) next to it about 18" away connected to my NAS server, but I've never had any issues with interference from either end. Is this interference something more prevalent with woo tube amps specifically?

Finding a space for this amp to stay that's also safe from my toddler will be a challenge because my options are limited, so I want to plan ahead. Thanks for your input.


----------



## isquirrel

masmole said:


> kindly elaborate... what kind of potential interference should I expect? noise in the music coming from the woo amp, wifi signal drops, or both?
> 
> and how close is too close? I read another thread here saying "keep it at least 1 foot away and you're safe". So is 2 feet away enough distance, generally speaking?
> 
> ...


 

 There is no definitive answer, best way to find out to is to remove all of the potential noise inducing devices, Wi-Fi routers, base stations etc and have listen and then with that as your reference point add them back in one at a time, see if you have an issue, you may not, I am not suggesting Woo amps are any worse or better at rejecting noise, only sure method is to experiment.


----------



## WillB

Hello all,
 I'm looking to purchase the WA22 and WDS-1 and I'm having a very friendly and helpful discussion with Mike at Woo Audio about this. I was recommended the Nordost Heimdal interconnects and powercords. And as you may know, these cables can very well end up costing more than the actual hardware. While I have no intention of using cables from Radio Shack or Costco, are cables this expensive really necessary? One suggestion I received for "best performance" was the Heimdahl2 XLR interconnect á $1162 for 1m (39") and Nordosts miminum recommended length is 1,5m! And since I plan on stacking the DAC and amp, what am I supposed to do with a 1,5m interconnect cable? Have this massive loop behind the stack that costs 2K just for kicks and giggles? I just don't get it. Anybody here want to dumb it down for me?
  
 I would appreciate some input from other members about what interconnect and powercables you have found to work well with Woo that don't have exorbitant pricetags. Believe me, I'm willing to throw down some dime for this setup but some of these prices for cables is just bananas.
  
 /Will


----------



## Khragon

Costco cable will work just fine. If you can afford RadioShack, even better. I'm surprise Woo recommended cable that cost more than some of their amp. I'm pretty sure they aren't using any $1000 per meter cable inside the amp.


----------



## dahan

willb said:


> Hello all,
> I'm looking to purchase the WA22 and WDS-1 and I'm having a very friendly and helpful discussion with Mike at Woo Audio about this. I was recommended the Nordost Heimdal interconnects and powercords. And as you may know, these cables can very well end up costing more than the actual hardware. While I have no intention of using cables from Radio Shack or Costco, are cables this expensive really necessary? One suggestion I received for "best performance" was the Heimdahl2 XLR interconnect á $1162 for 1m (39") and Nordosts miminum recommended length is 1,5m! And since I plan on stacking the DAC and amp, what am I supposed to do with a 1,5m interconnect cable? Have this massive loop behind the stack that costs 2K just for kicks and giggles? I just don't get it. Anybody here want to dumb it down for me?
> 
> I would appreciate some input from other members about what interconnect and powercables you have found to work well with Woo that don't have exorbitant pricetags. Believe me, I'm willing to throw down some dime for this setup but some of these prices for cables is just bananas.
> ...


 

 Cables make very little improvement in my system. I would invest on better tubes.


----------



## daverich4

dahan said:


> Cables make very little improvement in my system. I would invest on better tubes.




Big thumbs up on that. The difference that upgraded cables made to the sound of my system was miniscule compared to better tubes.


----------



## kazsud

dahan said:


> Cables make very little improvement in my system. I would invest on better tubes.


 

 +1


----------



## longbowbbs

kazsud said:


> dahan said:
> 
> 
> > Cables make very little improvement in my system. I would invest on better tubes.
> ...


 
 Icing on the cake basically.


----------



## masmole

dahan said:


> Cables make very little improvement in my system. I would invest on better tubes.


 

 Agree completely.
  
 I have been down this road myself many times in the past.   Tried many fancy and expensive cables from interconnects, speaker cables, headphones cables, and even power cables, from Cardas, Nordost, etc. (even owned 2 pairs of the obscenely pricy Valhalla interconnects at some point).   Perhaps there may have been very slight changes in tone, but honestly, even that might have been a stretch because none of it was readily apparent and may have possibly been just placebo effect.
  
 Instead, save your money and put it towards better tubes, sources, headphone or even better amps in the future... all of which are guaranteed to have much bigger and more rewarding impact towards getting the sound improvements you want.
  
 These days I buy cables just for quality construction and looks, because ultimately, they all sound the same to me.   I'll spend no more than the stuff you get from bluejeans cable or many of the DIY'ers on forums like this that can make you a cable to your specs for much more reasonable prices than exotic brands.


----------



## Krutsch

masmole said:


> kindly elaborate... what kind of potential interference should I expect? noise in the music coming from the woo amp, wifi signal drops, or both?
> 
> and how close is too close? I read another thread here saying "keep it at least 1 foot away and you're safe". So is 2 feet away enough distance, generally speaking?


 
  
 What @isquirrel said covers it, but don't forget that radios in wireless access points, extenders, smart phones, et al., have radiation patterns that are both vertical and horizontal (i.e. it's not a perfect sphere).
  
 So, think in 3D; that is, try moving stuff up/down, in addition to just farther away. I had serious RFI noise from tubes in my Woo and kept moving a wireless bridge further away, until I tried just moving it on top of a cabinet, underneath and relatively close to the amp. Problem solved.
  
 And, to make matter worse, some tubes seem to be more sensitive than others to EMI/RFI artifacting. It really is just trail-and-error.
  
 Welcome to the magic of tubes.


----------



## TonyNewman

willb said:


> Hello all,
> I'm looking to purchase the WA22 and WDS-1 and I'm having a very friendly and helpful discussion with Mike at Woo Audio about this. I was recommended the Nordost Heimdal interconnects and powercords. And as you may know, these cables can very well end up costing more than the actual hardware. While I have no intention of using cables from Radio Shack or Costco, are cables this expensive really necessary? One suggestion I received for "best performance" was the Heimdahl2 XLR interconnect á $1162 for 1m (39") and Nordosts miminum recommended length is 1,5m! And since I plan on stacking the DAC and amp, what am I supposed to do with a 1,5m interconnect cable? Have this massive loop behind the stack that costs 2K just for kicks and giggles? I just don't get it. Anybody here want to dumb it down for me?
> 
> I would appreciate some input from other members about what interconnect and powercables you have found to work well with Woo that don't have exorbitant pricetags. Believe me, I'm willing to throw down some dime for this setup but some of these prices for cables is just bananas.
> ...


 
  
 Woo Audio appear to have some form of relationship with Nordost - I have seen their products paired together in demos a few times.
  
 I would avoid the expensive cables and spend the bucks on better tubes. Personally, I have never heard any sonic benefit from any cable whatsoever - I can't hear any difference between a $20 cable and a $500 cable - be it an interconnect or USB or powercord or speaker wire.
  
 I most certainly can hear a difference between the stock tubes and those I am currently running in my WA5 and WA6, so that is where I invest my time and money.
  
 As always, YMMV. This is perhaps the most divisive topic amongst audiophiles.


----------



## Exidrion

willb said:


> Hello all,
> I'm looking to purchase the WA22 and WDS-1 and I'm having a very friendly and helpful discussion with Mike at Woo Audio about this. I was recommended the Nordost Heimdal interconnects and powercords. And as you may know, these cables can very well end up costing more than the actual hardware. While I have no intention of using cables from Radio Shack or Costco, are cables this expensive really necessary? One suggestion I received for "best performance" was the Heimdahl2 XLR interconnect á $1162 for 1m (39") and Nordosts miminum recommended length is 1,5m! And since I plan on stacking the DAC and amp, what am I supposed to do with a 1,5m interconnect cable? Have this massive loop behind the stack that costs 2K just for kicks and giggles? I just don't get it. Anybody here want to dumb it down for me?
> 
> I would appreciate some input from other members about what interconnect and powercables you have found to work well with Woo that don't have exorbitant pricetags. Believe me, I'm willing to throw down some dime for this setup but some of these prices for cables is just bananas.
> ...


 
 lmao you really have to be careful in the audiophile world and on headfi....I'm sure you're smart enough to realise that a $1162 1m meter cable is absolute hokey pokey and certainly not worth the money. Luckily there seems to be a lot of level headed people in this thread who aren't idiots, so that's great. A fool and his money are soon parted.


----------



## isquirrel

willb said:


> Hello all,
> I'm looking to purchase the WA22 and WDS-1 and I'm having a very friendly and helpful discussion with Mike at Woo Audio about this. I was recommended the Nordost Heimdal interconnects and powercords. And as you may know, these cables can very well end up costing more than the actual hardware. While I have no intention of using cables from Radio Shack or Costco, are cables this expensive really necessary? One suggestion I received for "best performance" was the Heimdahl2 XLR interconnect á $1162 for 1m (39") and Nordosts miminum recommended length is 1,5m! And since I plan on stacking the DAC and amp, what am I supposed to do with a 1,5m interconnect cable? Have this massive loop behind the stack that costs 2K just for kicks and giggles? I just don't get it. Anybody here want to dumb it down for me?
> 
> I would appreciate some input from other members about what interconnect and powercables you have found to work well with Woo that don't have exorbitant pricetags. Believe me, I'm willing to throw down some dime for this setup but some of these prices for cables is just bananas.
> ...


 

 I can weigh in here having owned the aforementioned Heimdall 2 Nordost Cables including the Heimdall 2 Headphone Cable and IC's. Stick to the advice you have been given here. I found that the Nordost cable which is silver is on the bright side of neutral, it is not a rich laid back sound. I ended up selling mine. IMHO you are much better off spending your $ on tubes and other major purchases (headphones, source) etc before going down this route. I would set a max budget for these items that you are prepared to spend and then get to a dealer and have a listen, try if you can to listen to some reasonably priced copper ones. Double Helix Cables make sensibly priced cables as do Cardas. If you can, pick the cheapest one which you are happy with, the one that gives the most balanced sound.
  
 Only when you're system is at high point component wise should you consider spending more. Best to listen for musicality rather the amount of detail you can hear. Different cables do different things that doesn't necessarily make them sound better only different.


----------



## Stereolab42

Spend 15% of the cost of your system on cabling and be done with it. With the exception of headphone cables... you want to up the budget on those if you have endgame headphones... the looks, durability, and convenience of high-end, hand-made, modular headphone cables is absolutely worth it.


----------



## reeltime

I have well-built cables from Monoprice and I also have more expensive Abbey Road cables.  As much as I'd love to tell you how sensational the Abbey Road cables are, I would bet money that I couldn't pass a blind taste test.


----------



## WillB

Hi Guys,
  
 Thanks for your replies. It helps alot. Otherwise your mind starts going down that "If I don't buy cables for 5 grand everything's gonna sound like s**t" road. I think I'll go for the Swedish Supra cables as they are made  here in Sweden and are very reasonably priced but still marketed towards the hifi and HT crowd. You just have to get past their signature baby blue color.
  
 I too am thinking of spending more money on the headphone cables than power cords and interconnects. Maybe Moon Audio or Double Helix Cables. I wonder if silver is the way to go or if copper is good enough...


----------



## CaptainCB

Could any of the Monoblock 234 owners comment on the ease of setup... as well as swapping between headphones? 
  
 I happily view this as being in the category of "the last tube amp you will ever need to buy"... but have never owned a monoblock anything. Trying to get my head wrapped around this from a setup standpoint. Sounds like alot of tweaking and second guessing oneself... and may mean performing this tweaking exercise when switching between headphones from differing impedance extremes.
  
 I'm trying to gather concepts from multiple threads that include use of headphone amps as monoblocks. So please excuse my noob approach.
  
 Thanks for any direction you can give me... especially with the Woo Monoblocks. I feel they are calling my name... now that the foundation on my house is repaired (completely non-sexy expenditure).


----------



## Fririce0003

captaincb said:


> Could any of the Monoblock 234 owners comment on the ease of setup... as well as swapping between headphones?
> 
> I happily view this as being in the category of "the last tube amp you will ever need to buy"... but have never owned a monoblock anything. Trying to get my head wrapped around this from a setup standpoint. Sounds like alot of tweaking and second guessing oneself... and may mean performing this tweaking exercise when switching between headphones from differing impedance extremes.
> 
> ...




 Setup is easy, just plug in the source and then plug the headphones in. The only issue is you need a seperate cable for left and right. Either that or an adapter such as dual 3 pin xlr to 4 pin xlr or dual mono 1/4" to stereo 1/4" socket. 
 The only other issue I thought there may be initially was getting the channels balanced. But having matched tubes the volume is withing 1.5db between channels at the same volume setting. Also the stepped attenuator helps keep track of the volume setting. Another thing to keep in mind is each track has a different channel balance and having mini blocks makes it easy to adjust on the go. Just one click up or down. Which changes the volume 5db per click with the tubes I'm using and my abyss.
 As for using and swapping between headphones it's the same as any other amp, turn the volume down and swap. If you're really pedantic turn the amps off, wait for them to cool then swap. The out out keys can also be swapped depending on the headphones used, you'll need the amp off for that. But I've found with all the headphones I've tried cathode hi-Z works best.
 Hope that helps, they're very lovely amps, need more people in the owners club


----------



## CaptainCB

That definitely helps... in two ways. It makes me realize that there isn't as much of a setup nightmare as I imagined. And it helps push me to get one even sooner!! haha
  
 I was sent a gorgeous pic of a setup from a Woo customer. Had a DaVinci DAC feeding into the Woo 234's and then into some KEF LS50's. Not sure who owns it, but I wish I could have a listen to that set up. There is one member here who has at least that gear collection and maybe more... "Squirrel" is part of his name if I'm not mistaken.
  
 Gotta get plugged into some of the Woo monsters and verify for myself what guys like you already know.


----------



## earthpeople

captaincb said:


> I was sent a gorgeous pic of a setup from a Woo customer. Had a DaVinci DAC feeding into the Woo 234's and then into some KEF LS50's. Not sure who owns it, but I wish I could have a listen to that set up. There is one member here who has at least that gear collection and maybe more... "Squirrel" is part of his name if I'm not mistaken.


 
  
 Yep, isquirrel
  
 Some of his pictures on this thread here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/924499/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/


----------



## CaptainCB

I wonder if isquirrel is friendly to Texans!! haha. 
  
 Super cool photos in the link you posted. Thanks for doing that.


----------



## isquirrel

captaincb said:


> I wonder if isquirrel is friendly to Texans!! haha.
> 
> Super cool photos in the link you posted. Thanks for doing that.


 

 Texan's no problem, how can I help?


----------



## CaptainCB

Well... isquirrel... apparently I need to think about visiting Australia... after the strong assumption that I would be invited... hahaha
  
 In all seriousness... I am very interested in following in your footsteps apparently. May not be able to follow in every which way, but I do see a ridiculous amount of similarity in your equipment chain and my desires to grow mine. I am just very new to the headphone realm. But it is a realm I will need to remain in for the time being. It can be safely tucked away in my private office. My main system is all in wall and hidden from the view of a two year old.
  
 I am trying to make decisions for my private listening room that will be completely dedicated to headphone based systems... with the slight possibility of a near field desktop setup. No matter what... Woo will be involved. I just really believe in the concept of "the last amp you will ever buy"... even though I know it's not true. I seek out that level of products within my interests.
  
 Looks like you do too isquirrel
  
 I would happily continue this convo in PM if it would be something you wouldn't mind helping me with. Just remember... I'm a headphone noob!


----------



## isquirrel

Sure send me a PM


----------



## Khragon

My SERP is going to be sold this weekend, still waiting for Elrog to make up their mind and send me my replacement.  Elrog is not holding up their end of the bargain, I wouldn't recommend buying from them for now.  Good thing I have my WE300B to keep me company.  I put in the stock tubes after packing up my SERP and boy.. one word, muddy.


----------



## effles

So, my Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC's arrived  earlier this week, been burning them in over the last few days. Overall, they're pretty great sounding tubes. I'm not particularly good at reviews, so I'll just say that they're very sweet sounding and the mid range is fantastic.
  
 Many thanks to Krutsch for all his help, apologies for the terrible colours on the following photo:


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> So, my Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC's arrived  earlier this week, been burning them in over the last few days. Overall, they're pretty great sounding tubes. I'm not particularly good at reviews, so I'll just say that they're very sweet sounding and the mid range is fantastic.
> 
> Many thanks to Krutsch for all his help, apologies for the terrible colours on the following photo:


 

 Yes... the Philips excel at the mid-range, sacrificing some of the clinical detail of the Telefunkens (I routinely switch between a set of Teleys and Amperex Holland tubes for the same effect). With the Tung-Sol 5998, you are all set, my friend.
  
 Congrats and happy listening!


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> Yes... the Philips excel at the mid-range, sacrificing some of the clinical detail of the Telefunkens (I routinely switch between a set of Teleys and Amperex Holland tubes for the same effect). With the Tung-Sol 5998, you are all set, my friend.
> 
> Congrats and happy listening!


 
 Yep! I listen to almost exclusively Folk, pretty heavily acoustic guitar and male vocals, these tubes really shine there. Enjoying them greatly. Thanks!


----------



## Stereolab42

So Tony tried this already and had good results, but I had to see for myself... I bought a HiFiMAN HE-Adapter:
  
http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104
  
 And hooked it to the speaker outputs of my WA-5 and plugged my LCD-XC into the box. Sounds very nice, a touch fuller but maybe less detailed than the front jack. Noise floor was higher than I wanted but this can be solved by replacing the 25-ohm series resistors in the box with higher values (they are chosen for the HE-6, which is much less sensitive of course than anything else). I'm going to do that and replace the 10-ohm parallel resistor with a higher-quality one as well, and re-evaluate. If nothing else I will have a box I can use with other tube amps that only have speaker outputs.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> So Tony tried this already and had good results, but I had to see for myself... I bought a HiFiMAN HE-Adapter:
> 
> http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104
> 
> And hooked it to the speaker outputs of my WA-5 and plugged my LCD-XC into the box. Sounds very nice, a touch fuller but maybe less detailed than the front jack. Noise floor was higher than I wanted but this can be solved by replacing the 25-ohm series resistors in the box with higher values (they are chosen for the HE-6, which is much less sensitive of course than anything else). I'm going to do that and replace the 10-ohm parallel resistor with a higher-quality one as well, and re-evaluate. If nothing else I will have a box I can use with other tube amps that only have speaker outputs.


 
  
 It's a handy little device to have around. After a bunch of A/B testing I went back to the single ended output for the HD800 on the WA5. As always, YMMV.


----------



## MIKELAP

Seen in WA22 manual they say that HP need to be plugged in before powering up if HP are not plugged in any danger because amp is OUTPUT TRANSFORMER COUPLED.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Seen in WA22 manual they say that HP need to be plugged in before powering up if HP are not plugged in any danger because amp is OUTPUT TRANSFORMER COUPLED.


 

 Yeah. I now do this every time I use. I didn't know this at first and I didn't read the manual. So for the first few months I just turned it on without anything plugged in. As far as I can tell or hear there was no damage.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Yeah. I now do this every time I use. I didn't know this at first and I didn't read the manual. So for the first few months I just turned it on without anything plugged in. As far as I can tell or hear there was no damage.


 
 Does the same go for the WA6???
 I always power on/plug-in then un-plug/power off.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Does the same go for the WA6???
> I always power on/plug-in then un-plug/power off.


 

 As far as I know and just recently learned all tube amps should have a load on the transformer all the time. Either speakers or headphones. If not it can ruin the transformer or transformers. If they are ruined then ya might as well throw the amp away as they are the most expensive part of a tube amp. I have read that the Woo amps have some tolerance to not having a load however the best practice is to always have something connected. When I have just rolled new untested tubes I always just plug in crappy headphones until I am satisfied the new tubes are safe. Usually after 5 minutes.
  
 I'm not a expert on this so there can be some mistakes in the above statement so other more experienced members could probably tell us more.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> As far as I know and just recently learned all tube amps should have a load on the transformer all the time. Either speakers or headphones. If not it can ruin the transformer or transformers. If they are ruined then ya might as well throw the amp away as they are the most expensive part of a tube amp. I have read that the Woo amps have some tolerance to not having a load however the best practice is to always have something connected. When I have just rolled new untested tubes I always just plug in crappy headphones until I am satisfied the new tubes are safe. Usually after 5 minutes.
> 
> I'm not a expert on this so there can be some mistakes in the above statement so other more experienced members could probably tell us more.


 
  OK, so I'm now going to start practicing powering on my WA6 up with the HP's plugged-in. 
 Now what about when powering off…should I leave the HP's plugged in also, then after the amp is powered off un-plug the HP's?
 Another thing is, I've mentioned the way I power-on/off the WA6* many* times before when this question was asked…I hope this hasn't caused any potential damage to anyones WA6!


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> OK, so I'm now going to start practicing powering on my WA6 up with the HP's plugged-in.
> Now what about when powering off…should I leave the HP's plugged in also, then after the amp is powered off un-plug the HP's?
> Another thing is, I've mentioned the way I power-on/off the WA6* many* times before when this question was asked…I hope this hasn't caused any potential damage to anyones WA6!


 

 Yip. I would leave the headphones in until it is completely drained of power. 20 seconds or so. I do this. My understanding is you must have a load. Headphones or speakers. I think you can be safe for a lot longer with the volume turned right down. I also do this as well. So I lower the volume then turn off, then remove headphones. To turn on I plug headphones in with the volume down, turn on then once the Woo has done its warmup and the LED signals all is okay then adjust volume.
  
 As far as damage. I really don't know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like I said. I was doing it wrong for months. I couldn't hear things going bad and right now the amp sounds incredible. There could be a chance damage was done to the internals tho. Transformers and capasitors. I really don't know.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Yip. I would leave the headphones in until it is completely drained of power. 20 seconds or so. I do this. My understanding is you must have a load. Headphones or speakers. I think you can be safe for a lot longer with the volume turned right down. I also do this as well. So I lower the volume then turn off, then remove headphones. To turn on I plug headphones in with the volume down, turn on then once the Woo has done its warmup and the LED signals all is okay then adjust volume.
> 
> As far as damage. I really don't know.
> 
> ...


 
 I always have the volume down upon power on/off.
 Here is a post I found about the WA6 with Jacks reply too this question and more, so I"m going to be practicing this being it is his amp design. Thanks for your input! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thread: So whats the "correct" way to turn on tube amps with headphones?
 Page:3
 Post#:37


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I always have the volume down upon power on/off.
> Here is a post I found about the WA6 with Jacks reply too this question and more, so I"m going to be practicing this being it is his amp design. Thanks for your input!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Can you post Jacks reply? I can't find it.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Can you post Jacks reply? I can't find it.


 
  
*1) What's the proper way to turn on WA6 with headphones? I ask this because I've read some stuff about it being harmful to the tube amp to turn it on without headphones in? Is this true? So far, I've turned on the WA6 without any headphones inserted (when I turn it on with headphones in, it gives the loud startup tube hum then goes away after about 5 seconds; I wasn't sure if this is harmful for headphones or not, so just to be on th safe side I unplugged it from there on), but plugged it in about 20 seconds later when the tube startup is done. So should I turn it on with headphones in or out (or does it even matter)? Just in case you may be concerned, yes, I always make sure the volume is down to zero when I turn it on or off.*

J: It is recommended to switch on the amp with a headphone on. This would avoid the amp being open circuit - not a good thing for any tube amps. You will not harm the amp at all if you leave an open circuit for a short period of time. The loud noise/abnormal sound is normal the tubes are warming up to get into the working state. A proper way to use the amp is 1) plug in your headphone, 2) mute the volume or stop your source 3) switch on the amp and let it warm up for at least 10 seconds, and that's all.



*2) I know the length for tube warmup for amp varies, but what I was wondering was; is it actually harmful for the amp/tube if I crank up the music right away without warming it? I realize the sound won't be optimal in the beginning but just wondering if this is actually a harmful practice to not warm it.*

J: No harm at all.



*3) If I'm understanding correctly, the headphone should be plugged in at all times when warming up the amp, or else it's harmful. Is this correct?*

J: Same as 1. So again, it is a good practice when using a tube amp.



*4) Is it safe or unsafe to flick the impedence switch in the back while the amp is on/while the music is playing? I always thought no, so I've been turning it off every time before I do so, but wanted to make sure.*

J: You can change the impedance setting while the amp is on and music is playing.

 So I guess the way Jack recommends it is that I keep the headphones in the jack when I am turning it on, but apparently you won't harm your amp if you leave it as open circuit (without headphones in) for a short term.
  
 Just to clarify, the problem of open circuit in an OTL tube amp is not as serious as output transformer (OT) coupled tube amp. In an OTL amp as the WA2, there is a pseudo load on the headphone output, which means you can switch on the amp without the headphone plugged in.

 As for the OT coupled amp with custom pre-amp, there is a switch to enable/disable the preamp. When it is enabled, the pseudo load connects to the headphone out, making the amp safe to use without headphone plugged in.

 Hope that help,
 Jack


----------



## joseph69




----------



## amalgamist

New WA22 owner checking in, would anyone mind telling me what tubes provide the most impact on sound ? Rectifier, Driver or Power tubes ? Trying to figure out which ones to upgrade first


----------



## TonyNewman

amalgamist said:


> New WA22 owner checking in, would anyone mind telling me what tubes provide the most impact on sound ? Rectifier, Driver or Power tubes ? Trying to figure out which ones to upgrade first


 
  
 Drivers IMHO. The heart and soul of the tube trinity.
  
 I have tried many of the NOS, and just about all the new production. I can recommend only 2 - both NOS - the Tung Sol Round Plate (TS RP) and National Union (NU). TS RP is little more detailed and accomplished, the NU is a little warmer/sweeter. Either will give sonic goodness.
  
 NU requires a 6F8G adapter. TS RPs can be crazy expensive.


----------



## Krutsch

joseph69 said:


> Just to clarify, the problem of open circuit in an OTL tube amp is not as serious as output transformer (OT) coupled tube amp. In an OTL amp as the WA2, there is a pseudo load on the headphone output, which means you can switch on the amp without the headphone plugged in.
> 
> As for the OT coupled amp with custom pre-amp, there is a switch to enable/disable the preamp. When it is enabled, the pseudo load connects to the headphone out, making the amp safe to use without headphone plugged in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for posting that... I don't recall reading anything like that in the manual, so good to know.


----------



## Khragon

I have a pair of ts rp for sale if you're interested.


----------



## dahan

amalgamist said:


> New WA22 owner checking in, would anyone mind telling me what tubes provide the most impact on sound ? Rectifier, Driver or Power tubes ? Trying to figure out which ones to upgrade first


 

 In my system, Power >= Driver > Rectifier.


----------



## joseph69

krutsch said:


> Thanks for posting that... I don't recall reading anything like that in the manual, so good to know.


 
 No problem, I didn't know about this either, I'm glad I found this post with some answers.


----------



## TonyNewman

dahan said:


> In my system, Power >= Driver > Rectifier.


 
  
 I should point out that my amp is the WA5. In that amp the driver is definitely king in terms of tube influence vs the other 2.
  
 WA22 could well be different.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> I should point out that my amp is the WA5. In that amp the driver is definitely king in terms of tube influence vs the other 2.
> 
> WA22 could well be different.


 
 I found that on my WA5 the order is: power > rectifier > driver
 When I was using the WA22, the order that I found is: driver > rectifier > power.
  
 guess the standard ymmv applies here, what a hobby, haha.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I found that on my WA5 the order is: power > rectifier > driver
> When I was using the WA22, the order that I found is: driver > rectifier > power.
> 
> guess the standard ymmv applies here, what a hobby, haha.


 
  
 That's so different to my experience. Once I found the TS RP and NU drivers it lifted my SQ much more than improved 300Bs and rectifiers.
  
 Really interesting how folks hear things differently


----------



## Khragon

I thought NU 6F8G didn't work well on WA5.  I guess you're using NU 6SN7?
 Too bad one of my Mullard CV181 failed before I get a chance to listen to them... It was in the amp for about a min and then suddenly shorted... have no idea why.  crap happens I guess.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I thought NU 6F8G didn't work well on WA5.  I guess you're using NU 6SN7?
> Too bad one of my Mullard CV181 failed before I get a chance to listen to them... It was in the amp for about a min and then suddenly shorted... have no idea why.  crap happens I guess.


 
  
 It doesn't. The original poster has a WA22, not a WA5 (I hope I read that correctly). The NU 6F8G works great when not trying to drive a 300B tube - so WA6 / WA22... etc are golden with the NU 6F8G.
  
 Bad luck on the Mullard CV181 - that is a pricey tube to have fail. Be happy it didn't wreck your amp - I had a crappy PSvane T2 CV181 fail spectacularly in my WA5 and blew 2 caps. Nasty.


----------



## joseph69

With the WA6 I find the driver/power tubes effect the sound just as much as the rectifier tube, if not more.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> It doesn't. The original poster has a WA22, not a WA5 (I hope I read that correctly). The NU 6F8G works great when not trying to drive a 300B tube - so WA6 / WA22... etc are golden with the NU 6F8G.
> 
> Bad luck on the Mullard CV181 - that is a pricey tube to have fail. Be happy it didn't wreck your amp - I had a crappy PSvane T2 CV181 fail spectacularly in my WA5 and blew 2 caps. Nasty.


 
 Not as bad because I purchased them at a steep discount because they measured borderline minimum, was hoping I could pull a hundred or so hours before one of them failing.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> I found that on my WA5 the order is: power > rectifier > driver
> When I was using the WA22, the order that I found is: driver > rectifier > power.
> 
> guess the standard ymmv applies here, what a hobby, haha.


 

 Yes as a WA22 owner that has just completed the whole tube rolling thingy I would agree with that WA22 statement.
  
 I tried many types of all three tubes. To me it was also Driver>Rectifier>Power.
  
 Interesting thing I noted is power tubes did bugger all until I used either the NU or TSRP drivers. With RCA 6SN7 Greyglass or clearglass drivers installed you could run any power tube. Cheap or expensive they sounded the same. NU and TS RP allowed the power tube sound to get noticed.


----------



## amalgamist

tonynewman said:


> Drivers IMHO. The heart and soul of the tube trinity.
> 
> I have tried many of the NOS, and just about all the new production. I can recommend only 2 - both NOS - the Tung Sol Round Plate (TS RP) and National Union (NU). TS RP is little more detailed and accomplished, the NU is a little warmer/sweeter. Either will give sonic goodness.
> 
> NU requires a 6F8G adapter. TS RPs can be crazy expensive.


 
  
 Wonderful thanks for that info! 
  
 Is it still possible to purchase the 6F8G adapter from Woo or are they no longer offering their adapters at all ?
  
 Is Glenn the only good source to go for adapters if that is the case ?


----------



## mikoss

For the WA2 I'd say Power > Driver > Rectifier. Both power and driver tubes make big differences; the rectifier tubes not so much.


----------



## Badas

amalgamist said:


> Wonderful thanks for that info!
> 
> Is it still possible to purchase the 6F8G adapter from Woo or are they no longer offering their adapters at all ?
> 
> Is Glenn the only good source to go for adapters if that is the case ?


 
  
 If you are talking about the WA22 then Glenn is the way to go. So you can have those wires away from other tubes.
  
 Like this:
  

  
 I have a second set on the way with a different look below:


----------



## Krutsch

mikoss said:


> For the WA2 I'd say Power > Driver > Rectifier. Both power and driver tubes make big differences; the rectifier tubes not so much.


 
  
 For the WA3 I'd say Power > Driver ... ah, guess that's it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've experienced that with a low quality Power Tube, the Drivers make no real difference - it just sucks; but the reverse is not the case.


----------



## TonyNewman

amalgamist said:


> Wonderful thanks for that info!
> 
> Is it still possible to purchase the 6F8G adapter from Woo or are they no longer offering their adapters at all ?
> 
> Is Glenn the only good source to go for adapters if that is the case ?


 
  
 I would use the Glenn adapter, if possible. Never used the Woo version, so can't talk about it.


----------



## amalgamist

Any recommendations to make my WA22 have that traditional "tube sound" ? Seeing as I already have a Schiit Ragnarok on hand, I'd like the WA22 to perform completely opposite of a SS amp. Use any of the standard key phrases people typically run with when describing tubes like romantic, lush, syrupy, etc..
  
 I'm slowly making my way through the entirety of this thread and other ones recommended on Dubstep girls rectifier thread, definitely not an easy task trying to learn all about tubes in just the 3 days I've owned the WA22


----------



## Badas

amalgamist said:


> Any recommendations to make my WA22 have that traditional "tube sound" ? Seeing as I already have a Schiit Ragnarok on hand, I'd like the WA22 to perform completely opposite of a SS amp. Use any of the standard key phrases people typically run with when describing tubes like romantic, lush, syrupy, etc..
> 
> I'm slowly making my way through the entirety of this thread and other ones recommended on Dubstep girls rectifier thread, definitely not an easy task trying to learn all about tubes in just the 3 days I've owned the WA22


 
 Try this. My current arrangement. I go for that exact signature. As far away from SS as I can get.
  
 Rectifier: Brimar 5Z4GY from Langrex. Just get it sooooo great for the price. Dynamic with nice mid-range. Exactly what you want in a rectifier
 Power: Sylvania 6080 Gold labels is best. Super cheap. Cheap is my middle name. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No other 6080 sounds as lush. I have tried every 6AS7G power tubes. Massive amount come with noise and when they are quiet there is nothing great about the sound. Have not tried 5998 or GEC 6AS7G which are suppose to the best. Too expensive. I have tried Tung-Sol 7236 and Bendix 6080 they are boring SS sound.
 Driver: Tung-Sol (must be round plate RP) or NU 6F8G. Sorry you will have to part with the $$'s here. I have tried them all. Nothing gets close. TS RP is my perfered. If you don't want to go to adapters (you should) then RCA 6SN7 GT (grey or clear glass), however you will loose some treble.


----------



## kokushu

I think which tube give greater sq depend on the tube.  On my WA5 the power tube doesn't do much until compare to the driver until I add the elrog 300b.  With the elrog I notice more different than any driver I use so far.


----------



## dahan

amalgamist said:


> Any recommendations to make my WA22 have that traditional "tube sound" ? Seeing as I already have a Schiit Ragnarok on hand, I'd like the WA22 to perform completely opposite of a SS amp. Use any of the standard key phrases people typically run with when describing tubes like romantic, lush, syrupy, etc..
> 
> I'm slowly making my way through the entirety of this thread and other ones recommended on Dubstep girls rectifier thread, definitely not an easy task trying to learn all about tubes in just the 3 days I've owned the WA22


 

 My favorite combo so far: Tungsol 5998, Brimar 5Z4GY, and NU 6f8g. It sounds warm, romantic, and very smooth with my HD800.


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Try this. My current arrangement. I go for that exact signature. As far away from SS as I can get.
> 
> I have tried every 6AS7G power tubes. Massive amount come with noise and when they are quiet there is nothing great about the sound. Have not tried 5998 or GEC 6AS7G which are suppose to the best. Too expensive. I have tried Tung-Sol 7236 and Bendix 6080 they are boring SS sound.
> Driver: Tung-Sol (must be round plate RP) or NU 6F8G. Sorry you will have to part with the $$'s here. I have tried them all. Nothing gets close. TS RP is my perfered.




Well, the OP didn't mention a budget so I'll chime in and say that my GEC 6AS7G's are dead quiet and an ideal match for the HD800's. However, I see the OP has LCD3's and for me, there is just something wrong with that combination. Can't really put my finger on it but listener fatigue sets in pretty quick. In my WA22 the TS 5998's are a much better match with the LCD3's. And for drivers with either headphone they'll have to pry my TS 6F8G's out of my cold, dead hands. YMMV.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> Well, the OP didn't mention a budget so I'll chime in and say that my GEC 6AS7G's are dead quiet and an ideal match for the HD800's. However, I see the OP has LCD3's and for me, there is just something wrong with that combination. Can't really put my finger on it but listener fatigue sets in pretty quick. In my WA22 the TS 5998's are a much better match with the LCD3's. And for drivers with either headphone they'll have to pry my *TS 6F8G's out of my cold, dead hands.* YMMV.


 
  
 Absolutely. Amazing driver. Nothing gets close (maybe the NU).
  
 I would love to try the GEC 6AS7G or TS 5998. $$'s are not permitting. I did find on the WA22 the power tubes had the least effect on sound. So I will only try them only if $$'s come my way.


----------



## masmole

My WA22 should be arriving this week.

I'm excited but also now second guessing my choice after just being wowed today by my friend's new GSX mk2 which sounded phenomenal driving my LCD XC.

Did I make the right choice? LOL why do I do this to myself?! 

I also have an Auralic Vega en route, after being wowed by that when I listened to it extensively at Axpona. So what do you all think about this combo: Vega --> WA22 --> LCD XC/TH900. Will this keep me happy for a while? Or at least for a few months?  My wife wants to know badly so I'll stop obsessing over it already.

I'm sure it will bring me smiles either way. Plus, I can look forward to some tube rolling adventures that will help me get the sound that works for me. Can't do that with a GSX mk2. This thread is a great resource... I have already bookmarked a bunch of posts about various tubes to try in the future.


----------



## joseph69

masmole said:


> My WA22 should be arriving this week.
> I'm excited but also now second guessing my choice after just being wowed today by my friend's new GSX mk2 which sounded phenomenal driving my LCD XC.


 
 I own the WA6 and the GS-1 and I'm extremely happy with both!
 They are both my end game amps.


----------



## Khragon

masmole said:


> My WA22 should be arriving this week.




Congrats, welcome to the woo club. I don't have the gsx2, so can't comment. I would recommend you compare with the stock tubes and see for yourself. If it's better than the gsx, good. If not, don't worry as the wa22 scales well with better tubes.


----------



## Badas

A few weeks ago we were talking about the Glenn adapters and were told of a different style cap he could offer.
  
 Well I received them last night. Once again. Stella work from Glenn. Thank you Glenn, I appreciate it.
  
 A few pics:
  
  

  
*New* (Black base, black wire and NOS older style cap.) *on left. Older *(black base, red wire and white caps)* on Right.*
  

  

  
 The caps are super nice. They push down all the way to the glass. So no pin is exposed. They also have 3 contact points instead of two. So they don't wobble at all. A lot better than the white caps.
  
 Actually really happy with this as I will use a lot of these tubes in my lifetime. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I also received 3 pairs of the Tung-Sol round plates as pictured last night. Taking my stock to 8 sets. Only 6 more sets to go.


----------



## musicman59

badas said:


> A few weeks ago we were talking about the Glenn adapters and were told of a different style cap he could offer.
> 
> Well I received them last night. Once again. Stella work from Glenn. Thank you Glenn, I appreciate it.
> 
> ...


 
 Those caps look so much nicer. I wish they were available when ordered mine sometime ago.


----------



## Badas

musicman59 said:


> Those caps look so much nicer. I wish they were available when ordered mine sometime ago.


 

 I think they have been available for a while. I have seen them on older photos of Glenn adapters.
  
 I think maybe Glenn tends to hold onto them for other uses. Like his amplifiers. Kinda makes sense.


----------



## masmole

badas said:


> I think they have been available for a while. I have seen them on older photos of Glenn adapters.
> 
> I think maybe Glenn tends to hold onto them for other uses. Like his amplifiers. Kinda makes sense.


 
  
 I'm definitely going to need these adapters.
  
 Who is this Glenn you are referring to?    And how do I contact him so I can have a pair of adapters?
  
 Not that I'm going to start rolling tubes right away since my WA22 hasn't even arrived yet... but I want to be prepared


----------



## Badas

masmole said:


> I'm definitely going to need these adapters.
> 
> Who is this Glenn you are referring to?    And how do I contact him so I can have a pair of adapters?
> 
> Not that I'm going to start rolling tubes right away since my WA22 hasn't even arrived yet... but I want to be prepared


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn
  
 Here you go.


----------



## masmole

badas said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn
> 
> Here you go.


 

 thanks!


----------



## JamesBr

badas said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn
> 
> Here you go.


 
 Nice, thanks


----------



## djd1122

tonynewman said:


> I should point out that my amp is the WA5. In that amp the driver is definitely king in terms of tube influence vs the other 2.
> 
> WA22 could well be different.


 
  
 Do you prefer the sound of the WA5 over the Moon Neo 430HA?


----------



## TonyNewman

djd1122 said:


> Do you prefer the sound of the WA5 over the Moon Neo 430HA?


 
  
 To me they are more 'different' rather than 'better'. More often than not I end up using the 430HA - that might be more due to the convenience of solid state than any superiority over the WA5.


----------



## kokushu

tonynewman said:


> To me they are more 'different' rather than 'better'. More often than not I end up using the 430HA - that might be more due to the convenience of solid state than any superiority over the WA5.


 
  
 Yeah, I am so close to replacing my woo audio 5 for a 430HA because of the convenience of solid state; but then I see the look of tube and the sound.  I guess I will put up with it for right now.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

WA5 is the official power source for MrSpeakers' new ETHER headphones.  Here's a pic of Dan's personal WA5 at CanJam SoCal.


----------



## Khragon

I'm surprised the K1K output is used, it is very noisy for me using hd800. Back when I had the lcd2 it's a bit better but still unusable. Ether is supposed to be more efficient compared to lcd2, I would think that it would be worse.


----------



## musicman59

hifiguy528 said:


> WA5 is the official power source for MrSpeakers' new ETHER headphones.  Here's a pic of Dan's personal WA5 at CanJam SoCal.


 
  
 I am not surprised!! 
 I listened to that combo at Axona. First I listened to the Ether out of the 1/4" output and they sounded good but that was it..... then I switched cables to listen out of the balance (K1K) output and wow! the Ether scaled beautifully. The sound was impressive. The extra power was a HUGE difference.
  
 That experienced was want made me think about selling my customized WA5-LE to order a WA5 and do the same customization in it.
  
 I just wonder how the HE1K would sound out of the WA5 balanced output.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My guess.... soon I'll be talking to Jack


----------



## masmole

musicman59 said:


> I am not surprised!!
> I listened to that combo at Axona. First I listened to the Ether out of the 1/4" output and they sounded good but that was it..... then I switched cables to listen out of the balance (K1K) output and wow! the Ether scaled beautifully. The sound was impressive. The extra power was a HUGE difference.
> 
> That experienced was want made me think about selling my customized WA5-LE to order a WA5 and do the same customization in it.
> ...


 

 What kind of mods did you do on your WA5 LE?  (aside from tube rolling)
  
 I heard the Ether + WA5 at Axpona as well... stunning.  Overall, I still wasn't as impressed with the Ether as I was with the HE1K on HiFiman's big hybrid amp (unfortunately, I don't think the HE1K was ever brought down to the Woo booth to try with the WA5).  Either way, the WA5 is a great amp.   I considered the WA5 too before deciding on the WA22.   In the end, both were excellent but I was slightly more pleased with how the Audeze LCD3 sounded on the WA22 so I went that route.   Also helped that the WA22 was cheaper and had a smaller footprint making it ideal for my purposes.   I've always wondered why the WA5 doesn't have balanced inputs while the WA22 does.  Can it be updated to include balanced input?   Perhaps Mike L or someone from Woo can chime in?


----------



## musicman59

masmole said:


> What kind of mods did you do on your WA5 LE?  (aside from tube rolling)
> 
> I heard the Ether + WA5 at Axpona as well... stunning.  Overall, I still wasn't as impressed with the Ether as I was with the HE1K on HiFiman's big hybrid amp (unfortunately, I don't think the HE1K was ever brought down to the Woo booth to try with the WA5).  Either way, the WA5 is a great amp.   I considered the WA5 too before deciding on the WA22.   In the end, both were excellent but I was slightly more pleased with how the Audeze LCD3 sounded on the WA22 so I went that route.   Also helped that the WA22 was cheaper and had a smaller footprint making it ideal for my purposes.   I've always wondered why the WA5 doesn't have balanced inputs while the WA22 does.  Can it be updated to include balanced input?   Perhaps Mike L or someone from Woo can chime in?



Funny, I went the other way. I was planning to buy the WA22 but after talking to Jack and listening to the WA5-LE with my T1 I changed my mind.

I agree I liked the HE1k better but the Ether was pretty good for its price.

I did teflone sockets, parts upgrade, tubes upgrade, all Neotech OCC Copper internal wiring (supplied by me), all Cardas Euthetic solder throughout (supplied by me), Noetech OCC Copper umbilical cord, WBT NextGen RCA connectors, ViaBlue spikes.


----------



## Khragon

That's a pretty extensive list? Did you compare the modded to stock?


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> That's a pretty extensive list? Did you compare the modded to stock?


 
 No but I know how the OCC Copper wires has done in other applications that's why I went with it.


----------



## mikoss

Nice @musicman59 - I totally appreciate upgraded parts, and I think it's a worthwhile investment once you find a piece of gear you're happy with. I personally enjoy teflon sockets, rolling NOS tubes and upgrading capacitors. Haven't tried different types of wiring or solder myself, but I think it's cool that Woo is able to work with you to customize your WA5.
  
 I also think there's a market for listeners who are willing to pay a bit of cash to get those extras... I upgraded some caps inside my WA2, which made a nice improvement to the tonality, but I wish Woo had more options. DIY is fun, but getting that endorsement from the original designer is nice as well.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

masmole said:


> What kind of mods did you do on your WA5 LE?  (aside from tube rolling)
> 
> I heard the Ether + WA5 at Axpona as well... stunning.  Overall, I still wasn't as impressed with the Ether as I was with the HE1K on HiFiman's big hybrid amp (*unfortunately, I don't think the HE1K was ever brought down to the Woo booth to try with the WA5)*.  Either way, the WA5 is a great amp.   I considered the WA5 too before deciding on the WA22.   In the end, both were excellent but I was slightly more pleased with how the Audeze LCD3 sounded on the WA22 so I went that route.   Also helped that the WA22 was cheaper and had a smaller footprint making it ideal for my purposes.   I've always wondered why the WA5 doesn't have balanced inputs while the WA22 does.  Can it be updated to include balanced input?   Perhaps Mike L or someone from Woo can chime in?


 
  
 I didn't get to hear it, but Jack felt confident enough to place an order so we'll have one for demo and a few to offer to our customers.  As soon as production HE-1000s ships, we'll have one for everybody to demo at trade shows.  Hopefully in time for Newport show in a few weeks. 
  
 We will have ETHER for demo and for sale as well.


----------



## Khragon

I plan to be at The Show Newport... please have the H1K there... !!!
  
 Looking at that photo, Jack is using stock tubes on the WA5.  Can you ask Jack to bring a set of the upgraded tubes Woo is offering for WA5?


----------



## masmole

nice upgrades! but teflon sockets... don't all Woo amps already come with teflon sockets?

Just received my WA22 and it sure looks like teflon sockets are standard equipment.


----------



## musicman59

masmole said:


> nice upgrades! but teflon sockets... don't all Woo amps already come with teflon sockets?
> 
> Just received my WA22 and it sure looks like teflon sockets are standard equipment.


 
 They might be standard now but they were an optional upgrade when I bought mine.


----------



## Stereolab42

So, as promised, I gutted my HiFiMAN HE-Adapter and replaced everything with superior/overkill parts more suited to the LCD-XC. Top-quality Neutrik plug, Vishay RS-series 10ohm/10watt resistors in parallel, and Vishay NS-series 50ohm/10watt resistors in series.
  

  
 After working up the courage to plug it into my WA5's speaker outputs and risk frying way too much worth of equipment, I did the deed and it sounds wonderful. Noise floor is gone due to the higher attenuation (the old resistors were tuned for the HE-6), and there is a brilliant fullness and spaciousness to the sound... maybe I'm just imagining it but I don't recall this wide of a soundstage with the front panel outputs. At some point I will A/B but right now I'm just enjoying it. I wonder if any hi-fi shops will let me plug this into their $50k tube amps. Probably not. I wouldn't if I was them.


----------



## Silent One

stereolab42 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well done!
  
 I too, wanna kick my HE-Adaper up w/higher quality parts.


----------



## TonyNewman

kokushu said:


> Yeah, I am so close to replacing my woo audio 5 for a 430HA because of the convenience of solid state; but then I see the look of tube and the sound.  I guess I will put up with it for right now.


 
  
 I went with both (yes, I'm a gear slut). The WA5 option gets very expensive very fast with nice glass. Those 300B tubes are killer expensive once you get into the top tier new production tubes (not even going to think about vintage WE300Bs) - Takatsukis / Elrogs / SERPs / EMLs - all pricey. Factor that into the consideration and the 430HA looks even better. IMHO the WA5 has to have nice glass in it compete in any sense with the 430HA. Average tubes just don't cut it - and as for the stock tubes - I'd rather feed my junk to a rabid mongoose, if you know what I mean...


----------



## Khragon

stereolab42 said:


> So, as promised, I gutted my HiFiMAN HE-Adapter and replaced everything with superior/overkill parts more suited to the LCD-XC. Top-quality Neutrik plug, Vishay RS-series 10ohm/10watt resistors in parallel, and Vishay NS-series 50ohm/10watt resistors in series.


 
 No internal photo? c'mon!!!


----------



## Silent One

khragon said:


> No internal photo? c'mon!!!


 
 +1


----------



## masmole

Received my WA22 last week and have about 50 hours of run time already.  Right out of the box with stock tubes, it already sounds superior in almost every aspect to my HA-1 except perhaps in the bass department, where it's not as impactful and articulate.  I expected that difference, going from solid state to tubes.
  
 It came with a Shugyang 274B rectifier, Sylvania 6SN7HGTB drive tubes, and JAN 6080WC power tubes.   Not bad for stock tubes, to be honest.
  
 But I'm sure I can do much better, based on what I've been reading on this thread.
  
 Once the amp is broken-in, I already have a game plan for round #1 of tube rolling, and the tubes are already en route from various sellers as we speak.  (I like to plan ahead)   I will start with a Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier, then a matched pair of NOS Tung-Sol 6F8G date code 1942 (Glenn is making me 6F8G adapters), and finally throw on some cheap french-made Thomson 6080WA.
  
 Thanks to this thread, I may have saved myself from some initial frustrations with tube rolling, and hopefully round 1 will yield some good results 
  
 Some pics of my new shiny...


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> No internal photo? c'mon!!!


 
  
 Trust me, you don't want to see my soldering/hot glue job. It's solid, but crowded and far from sexy. I now have far more appreciation for the craftsmanship you see in amps like Woos... the wiring both looks good and is rock-solid. I considered buying one of those aluminum project boxes on eBay for more room to work in, but I don't have a drill press (necessary to cut proper holes in metal).


----------



## Badas

masmole said:


> Received my WA22 last week and have about 50 hours of run time already.  Right out of the box with stock tubes, it already sounds superior in almost every aspect to my HA-1 except perhaps in the bass department, where it's not as impactful and articulate.  I expected that difference, going from solid state to tubes.
> 
> It came with a Shugyang 274B rectifier, Sylvania 6SN7HGTB drive tubes, and JAN 6080WC power tubes.   Not bad for stock tubes, to be honest.
> 
> ...


 

 Another guy with the WA22 and Oppo HA-1. Nice one.
  
 To be honest I hardly use my HA-1 now. With rolled tubes the WA22 is sooooo much better. You will enjoy that selection of tubes.
  
 You have a lot nicer DAC (Vega). I bet the Vega into the HA-1 would be a nice combo. That DAC on the HA-1 is crap but the amp section is nice.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

masmole said:


> Received my WA22 last week and have about 50 hours of run time already.  Right out of the box with stock tubes, it already sounds superior in almost every aspect to my HA-1 except perhaps in the bass department, where it's not as impactful and articulate.  I expected that difference, going from solid state to tubes.
> 
> It came with a Shugyang 274B rectifier, Sylvania 6SN7HGTB drive tubes, and JAN 6080WC power tubes.   Not bad for stock tubes, to be honest.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great system!  Thank you for sharing.


----------



## masmole

Got this today. Not sure if I bought the right tube. Just checked the Woo manual and I don't see it listed as compatible, but I thought I remember Badas saying he used this on his WA22.

For one it's much smaller than I expected for a rectifier, at least compared to a Sophia Princess or even the stock Shuguang 274B. (yes, I know size doesn't matter lol). Another thing I noticed is that it doesn't have all the pins in the bottom compared to my 274B.

Can anyone confirm that this will work on my WA22 before I plug it in and blow things up? 

it says "5Z4GY / CV1863"


----------



## TonyNewman

Looks like a Brimar - I am running that exact rectifier in my WA6 and WA5 with no problems at all (and I know Badas is using it in his WA22).
  
 Go for it - you are golden.
  


masmole said:


> Got this today. Not sure if I bought the right tube. Just checked the Woo manual and I don't see it listed as compatible, but I thought I remember Badas saying he used this on his WA22.
> 
> For one it's much smaller than I expected for a rectifier, at least compared to a Sophia Princess or even the stock Shuguang 274B. (yes, I know size doesn't matter lol). Another thing I noticed is that it doesn't have all the pins in the bottom compared to my 274B.
> 
> ...


----------



## Khragon

I used this on my WA5 also, I don't prefer it though, I think bass is a bit bloated.
  
 Here's a picture of WA22 using it.  You're good to go.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/12555#post_7660511


----------



## masmole

thanks!

curious, what is your rectifier of choice for the WA5?


----------



## Khragon

I prefer Mullard GZ32, and WE422A.  the GZ32 is warmer and WE422A has a very clear, and detail sound to it.  WE422A are expensive though.
 Check out Dubstep Girl's guide.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## Khragon

WA5 by night


----------



## masmole

Excellent! I happen to also have a Mullard GZ32 that I received in the mail yeserday. I will try that next after the Brimar.

The prices on WE 422A are indeed obscene... just like the also-coveted WE 421A power tubes. Not sure if I'll ever be bored enough to dump that much cash on tubes just to see what all the fuss is all about. Though it's quite possible to be drunk enough and also have nearby access to ebay by chance one day


----------



## devilboy

Purchased my WA2 last night.  Has anyone replaced the fuse on their Woo?  I added boutique fuses in my loudspeaker system over the years and have seen considerable improvements.


----------



## Badas

masmole said:


> Excellent! I happen to also have a Mullard GZ32 that I received in the mail yeserday. I will try that next after the Brimar.
> 
> The prices on WE 422A are indeed obscene... just like the also-coveted WE 421A power tubes. Not sure if I'll ever be bored enough to dump that much cash on tubes just to see what all the fuss is all about. Though it's quite possible to be drunk enough and also have nearby access to ebay by chance one day




Yes. I can confirm that Brimar is good to go. I'm listening to it as I type. Mine also has those miltitary markings on it. The Brimar is a performance king. value for $$'s. It might not be the very best however it is very close and a fraction of the price of the best. I have 14 of them. I also have 5 Mullard GZ32's. In my opinion the Brimar kills it. I will be interested in your opinion. Brimar is on the WA22 list. The list says 5Z4. The GY on the Brimar 5Z4GY is just referring to the glass type. So the Brimar 5Z4GY is just a 5Z4.


----------



## masmole

thanks for clarifying, Badas.

yes, I overlooked the 5Z4 on the list since it was missing GY haha

stupid question: why is the 5Z4GY missing some pins compared to the 274B's complete set? doesn't the amp need all the connections to complete the circuit? (clearly I know nothing about amp circuits)


----------



## Khragon

Anyone returned their Elrog 300B, what's your status?
 I'm getting a 2 months estimate from True Audiophile, which is an extremely long turn around time.  I'm not liking this one bit.


----------



## Stereolab42

devilboy said:


> Purchased my WA2 last night.  Has anyone replaced the fuse on their Woo?  I added boutique fuses in my loudspeaker system over the years and have seen considerable improvements.


 
  
 I've replaced the fuses on my Woo amps with ones from "HiFi-Tuning". Not that I noticed a difference, it was more of an audiophile performance art kind of thing.


----------



## TonyNewman

masmole said:


> ... doesn't the amp need all the connections to complete the circuit? (clearly I know nothing about amp circuits)


 
  
 Correct - only a portion of the pins do anything for many tubes. 274 style rectifiers can be had in a 4 pin version (as per the 300B socket, I think).


----------



## Khragon

Siemens C3g vs. Mullard ECC32 driving WE300B and rectified by WE422A.
  
 C3g gain is ALOT lower than ECC32, so much so that I can use K1K port with my HD800 w/o hearing too much noise. 
 Comparing C3g to Mullard ECC32 I noticed the C3g sounded a lot sweeter, bass more pronounced.  The ECC32 is suddenly sounded drier.  I listen mainly to jazz style female vocals and prefer C3g more, I can see ECC32 is more suited for pop and classical.


----------



## 2359glenn

Now you need to try a Lorenz C3g for a even sweeter sound.


----------



## kokushu

khragon said:


> Anyone returned their Elrog 300B, what's your status?
> I'm getting a 2 months estimate from True Audiophile, which is an extremely long turn around time.  I'm not liking this one bit.


 
 My Elrog is also getting send back.  Don't have an estimate on the return yet.  I probably going to get the Takatsuki 300b during the wait for it to come back.  Until then I been using my EML 300b Mesh.  Although there are thing I miss with the Elrog compare to the EML but I think I could definitely live with the EML if I can't get the other two.  I still running WE422a and TS 6F8G with the EML.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

khragon said:


> Anyone returned their Elrog 300B, what's your status?
> I'm getting a 2 months estimate from True Audiophile, which is an extremely long turn around time.  I'm not liking this one bit.


 
  
 What's exactly the problem with the Elrogs?  I'm burning mine in right now.  Just wanna know what problem to keep my eyes for.  It's a shame, the Elrogs do sound great (better than EML 300xls).


----------



## Krutsch

khragon said:


> Siemens C3g vs. Mullard ECC32 driving WE300B and rectified by WE422A.


 
  
 A lot of $$$ in those Westys... and, by the way, I love your wall color. Makes me want to repaint my study.


----------



## Krutsch

Socket savers... I've been trying some different socket savers and tube dampers, with the faint hope of correcting microphonics in a few of my tubes (especially in one of my five WE421a power tubes and with one set of Siemens CCa drivers).
  
 Finally settled on these from Tube Monger dot com. To my complete amazement, I plugged in a larger octal socket saver and sound artifacts are *almost* gone. Slight vibration / microphonics on the WE421a, but nothing like before when placing into either the raw socket or alternative socket savers from eBay. Don't know if it's the tight fit or the silicon-filled base, which is advertised to reduce vibration, et al.
  
 The CCa tubes still exhibit a slight hum (right tube / channel), but at volume I've learned to ignore it.


----------



## Khragon

krutsch said:


> A lot of $$$ in those Westys... and, by the way, I love your wall color. Makes me want to repaint my study.




Thanks, the color is Aurora pink . It's what happens when you change room with your daughter.


----------



## Krutsch

khragon said:


> Thanks, the color is Aurora pink
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ha ha ha... I wasn't being sarcastic, though; I really do like that color.


----------



## Khragon

sko0bydoo said:


> What's exactly the problem with the Elrogs?  I'm burning mine in right now.  Just wanna know what problem to keep my eyes for.  It's a shame, the Elrogs do sound great (better than EML 300xls).


 

 One of mine shorted out, the other tube tested under minimum only 2 months after purchase.
  
    Quote:


kokushu said:


> My Elrog is also getting send back.  Don't have an estimate on the return yet.  I probably going to get the Takatsuki 300b during the wait for it to come back.  Until then I been using my EML 300b Mesh.  Although there are thing I miss with the Elrog compare to the EML but I think I could definitely live with the EML if I can't get the other two.  I still running WE422a and TS 6F8G with the EML.


 
 Where are you buying the Takatsuki? price japan? how will the warranty service work out?


----------



## isquirrel

Status with the Elrog's as I understand it is:
  
 ~  There have been a number of failures - not as many as you would believe from some forum's and no Tube manufacturer is immune in this regard
  
 ~  The failures seem to be from a combination of issues:
  
 1    The Tube Pins are not aligned to an extent that say the Takatsuki's or some other 300B's are:
  
 2    When the tube is rolled as is the case with most people on this forum it increases the possibility of the tube base developing minute cracks and then the tube either fails suddenly or looses vacuum over time. I have had 3 Elrog's fail - all with different issues.
  
 3   The problem of the pin alignment issue is heightened when you have sockets like the Woo's have which do not have much tolerance for movement. 
  
 4   The base was originally black ceramic and I understand this was changed to brass at the request of the US distributor for aesthetic reasons.
  
 5   The brass base is sourced from China and comparing it say the Takatsuki's is of a lower quality as are the pins.
  
 What's happening from here?
  
 The US distributor has effectively stopped selling the Elrog's until these issues are sorted. I understand that at Munich or shortly after a few of the distributors are meeting with the manufacturer to get a resolution to the above issues - there is a suggestion that Elrog move to high quality Black ceramic bases. I have provided samples of my failed tubes that were taken to the manufacturer as well as photo's of the Woo sockets, Takatsuki bases and pins etc.
  
 Let's hope this gets sorted as the Elrog is a very good sounding tube, my feeling is these are teething issues and the tube that emerges when these have been addressed will be  all the better for the expereince. Its not like other number of tube manufacturers haven't had their share of issues. I have had no issues with warranty response. On the contrary they have been more than receptive to listen and work through the issues.
  
 I am not affiliated in any way with the distribution of manufacture - I had been sitting on this info and thought it was appropriate it was shared.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> 2    *When the tube is rolled as is the case with most people on this forum it increases the possibility of the tube base developing minute cracks *and then the tube either fails suddenly or looses vacuum over time. I have had 3 Elrog's fail - all with different issues.
> 
> 3   The problem of the pin alignment issue is heightened when you have *sockets like the Woo's have which do not have much tolerance for movement. *


 
  
 Just curious... is this an issue with tubes, in general, and frequent rolling? Is this exacerbated by how the tube is handled or is there no avoiding this issue, as you describe above, regardless of care taken?


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Just curious... is this an issue with tubes, in general, and frequent rolling? Is this exacerbated by how the tube is handled or is there no avoiding this issue, as you describe above, regardless of care taken?


 

 Yep to be sure it is a factor how the tubes are handled and how often they are rolled in and out of sockets. I do a lot of tube rolling and have noticed my sockets are not as tight as when new.
  
 Elrog have noticed that the usual customer who use is in 2 channel power amps - they tend to "install once and forget" there have been far fewer issues I understand with this type of use. Certainly when mine have failed I have recalled that at some stage in the past when installing them I have felt or heard something from the tube. Inevitably it fails later on. 
  
 Elrog do warn not to touch the tubes for at least 30 mins after use - I have always observed this and handle them as gently as possible however this has not prevented issues.
  
 I noticed early on the 2 thicker 300B pins at the rear seem to be longer than other tubes - and this has mean't that when installing them in my amps they tend to "lean" forward at a slight angle - so potentially I have pushed down a little firmer to try and get them to sit straight. On this I can't be sure - I have dropped Takatsuki's and done other horrendous things to them and they have worked fine.
  
 The Elrog is a more sensitive tube for sure. The consensus is that the weakness is in the bases. So if you have them in and they are working okay its probably best to leave them that way.


----------



## Khragon

isquirrel said:


> The Elrog is a more sensitive tube for sure. The consensus is that the weakness is in the bases. *So if you have them in and they are working okay its probably best to leave them that way.*


 
 I don't know if I accept that, the entire point of tube amp is tube rolling.  I too taken great care when I roll my tubes, always waited for them to cool down before removing.  I also wear cotton glove so I don't get any skin oil on them.  I think Elrog should recall the tubes and fix the bases if that turns out to be the problem, or extend the warranty period to 2 years.


----------



## 2359glenn

Sko0byDoo said:
			
		

> What's exactly the problem with the Elrogs?  I'm burning mine in right now.  Just wanna know what problem to keep my eyes for.  It's a shame, the Elrogs do sound great (better than EML 300xls).


 
 One thing about tubes with throated tungsten filaments are very sensitive to voltage and vibration.
 Over voltage will cause them to loose emission rather quickly. and vibration or shock will cause
 the filament to break after it was used it becomes brittle.
 Skoob you build your own amps it would be a good idea if you use a slow turn on regulator to bring
 the voltage up slowly.  And then run them at 4.5 to 4.75 volts instead of 5. I do this with my #10 drivers
 run them at 7 volts instead of 7.5  and they have been used every day for 10 years and still test as new.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> One thing about tubes with throated tungsten filaments are very sensitive to voltage and vibration.
> Over voltage will cause them to loose emission rather quickly. and vibration or shock will cause
> the filament to break after it was used it becomes brittle.
> Skoob you build your own amps it would be a good idea if you use a slow turn on regulator to bring
> ...


 
  
 Glenn,
  
 I noted that with my passive Rod Coleman's filament DC supply, for normal 300Bs, I set to get 5V.  At the same setting, for the Elrogs, I got +6.5V over the filament.  So, I will have to keep in mind to turn down the voltage for 'em.  
  
 Yes, I do already have 20-30 sec B+ delay (from eBay).  I set 'em at 5V now, but will lower to 4-5-4.75V.  Thanks for the tips, Glenn.  The Elrogs do sound amazing.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > One thing about tubes with throated tungsten filaments are very sensitive to voltage and vibration.
> ...


 

 This could be the problem the Elrogs draw less filament current then a normal 300B.
 So in a amp that uses resistors in the filament power supply less current draw means higher voltage to the tube.
 This will kill a throated tungsten tube.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> I don't know if I accept that, the entire point of tube amp is tube rolling.  I too taken great care when I roll my tubes, always waited for them to cool down before removing.  I also wear cotton glove so I don't get any skin oil on them.  I think Elrog should recall the tubes and fix the bases if that turns out to be the problem, or extend the warranty period to 2 years.


 

 Stating the obvious perhaps however the entire point of a tube amp is to listen to music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 not all users tube roll extensively or at all.
  
 We are all waiting/hoping that Elrog will get on top of this and respond in a timely manner. I sent the Elrog tube specs to Jack Woo who responded saying they were quite safe to run in his amps. Whatever the issue is it would be nice if there was a long term solution.
  
 Best suggestion is to contact the supplier and find out what is the latest status.


----------



## 2359glenn

isquirrel said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if I accept that, the entire point of tube amp is tube rolling.  I too taken great care when I roll my tubes, always waited for them to cool down before removing.  I also wear cotton glove so I don't get any skin oil on them.  I think Elrog should recall the tubes and fix the bases if that turns out to be the problem, or extend the warranty period to 2 years.
> ...


 

 What you guys should do is put in Elrogs and get a DVM and measure the filament voltage. Across the two large pins
 it should be 5 volts usually DC if it is higher your amp is burning up these tubes. Then don't use Elrogs in that amp or
 have some means of dropping it to 5 volts.


----------



## isquirrel

2359glenn said:


> What you guys should do is put in Elrogs and get a DVM and measure the filament voltage. Across the two large pins
> it should be 5 volts usually DC if it is higher your amp is burning up these tubes. Then don't use Elrogs in that amp or
> have some means of dropping it to 5 volts.


 

 Good advice as always, thanks Glenn


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> What you guys should do is put in Elrogs and get a DVM and measure the filament voltage. Across the two large pins
> it should be 5 volts usually DC if it is higher your amp is burning up these tubes. Then don't use Elrogs in that amp or
> have some means of dropping it to 5 volts.


 
  
 Be safe, power on but remove the rectifier tube(s) when measure across the filament so no B+ on plate.


----------



## daverich4

isquirrel said:


> Stating the obvious perhaps however the entire point of a tube amp is to listen to music :wink_face:  not all users tube roll extensively or at all.




I started out tube rolling trying to tame the treble on my HD800's but when I settled on my current set (TS 5998, TS 6F8G, WE 422a) I quit. Don't remember the last time I've had something different in.


----------



## Khragon

Yes, and to get to your tube rolling destination, guess what, you rolled tubes. Which is my point originally, I don't accept Elrog tube failing simply by the short rolling process. I hardly move my Elrog at all, burning them in at the time, and they still failed.

For those with Elrog, be mindful that the warranty is only 6 months. I would use the tube as much as possible, and continue rolling tube as you do with any other tubes. I would get the tubes tested at around 4-5 months into the warranty period to make sure that it's not already failing slowly, and probably another test a week before warranty expires.


----------



## daverich4

khragon said:


> I don't know if I accept that, the entire point of tube amp is tube rolling.




I was just agreeing with iSquirrel, that to me the point of having a tube amp was to listen to it. You are right, when I first got my WA22 I did some tube rolling to tailor the sound to my liking but now that I'm done with that and leave the same set of tubes in it all the time are you saying there's no point in my having a tube amp?


----------



## Khragon

daverich4 said:


> I was just agreeing with iSquirrel, that to me the point of having a tube amp was to listen to it. You are right, when I first got my WA22 I did some tube rolling to tailor the sound to my liking but now that I'm done with that and leave the same set of tubes in it all the time are you saying there's no point in my having a tube amp?


 
 Sorry mis-state my intention.  I just wanted to warn other with Elrog of the problem, no more no less.  I'm trying to achieve the same thing you do with WA22, that is one set of tubes to will handle all my music, once I'm there I will leave it there.


----------



## 3083joe

It's here. Wa6
I have joined the owners


----------



## mikoss

Gotta love getting a package with Woo Audio on the side... enjoy!


----------



## MIKELAP

Got this rectifier on at the moment a CHATHAM 5R4WGA bassy i like it also like the price $6.00


----------



## Porteroso

3083joe said:


> It's here. Wa6
> I have joined the owners


 
 Always a beautiful sight


----------



## devilboy

Congrats on your new 6! I hear nothing but wonderful things. I'm waiting for my WA2. I have an order of NOS arriving around the same time. Joy joy joy!


----------



## masmole

and Woo always seem to package their amps so well and bomb-proof for shipping... that it almost makes it frustratingly difficult for its over-excited new owner to unbox  Enjoy!


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> It's here. Wa6
> I have joined the owners


Fantastic amp joe. The Woo WA6 is an acquisition that should stay with you for a long time.


----------



## TonyNewman

Great little amp. Recommend getting some 6SN7 / 6F8G adapters. These open up a lot of tube rolling possibilities for drivers.


----------



## reeltime

So... THIS happened today...


----------



## devilboy

1000s......damn. Somebody is having a good day, eh?


----------



## reeltime

Yah, the LPs are coming off the shelves fast and furious.  Rush... Stevie Ray... Monk... Tina Brooks... Billie Holiday.  We've got new ground to forge.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> So... THIS happened today...


 

 Beautiful. Please post ongoing impressions. Please.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Great little amp. Recommend getting some 6SN7 / 6F8G adapters. These open up a lot of tube rolling possibilities for drivers.



On order along with the Sofia princess. 
I'm impressed stock to be honest. Pair well with hd650s.


----------



## devilboy

I gotta admit.....I'm jelous as hell.


----------



## kazsud

devilboy said:


> I gotta admit.....I'm jelous as hell.


 

 +1


----------



## kazsud

reeltime said:


> So... THIS happened today...


 

 The holy grail.


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> So... THIS happened today...


 

 Are these the Beta's? looking forward to your impressions


----------



## Khragon

reeltime said:


> So... THIS happened today...


 

 Nice! congrats on getting selected for the beta trial.  Can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## Khragon

Got me a schiit asgard2 so I can listen to some quick music in the morning without having to deal with tube warming up or decrease tube life by turning the amp on and off so quickly.  I can tell you that I agree with the 2 stars review by tdockweiler.  The asgard 2 sounded congested and although I enjoyed the coloring of vocals sound a bit, the rest of the sound signature leaves a lot to be desire, bass is blurry and treble isn't well extended.  I guess I'm so used to WA5, even with stock 300B it beat the asgard 2.  I may just use stock 300B and so I don't have to worry about the cost replacing tubes.  In any case this may go on the for sale forum soon, we'll see what my mood is tomorrow morning .


----------



## Badas

^

Let it burn in. Even SS changes with burn in. My Arcam DAC was a roller coaster during burn in. Different everytime I turned it in. I eventually left it on for 3 days solid and then it stabilised.


----------



## musicman59

reeltime said:


> So... THIS happened today...


 
 Based on your picture it looks like your amp is a WA5-LE (just like mine). Do you find that the HE1000 sound better out of the High Impedance output than the Low even that the HE1000 are around 40 ohms?


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Beautiful. Please post ongoing impressions. Please.


 
  
  


musicman59 said:


> Do you find that the HE1000 sound better out of the High Impedance output than the Low even that the HE1000 are around 40 ohms?


 
  
 Just getting started with these.  I haven't played with low vs. high-- they're just too new.  I'm still in the "I wonder what THIS album sounds like?!" phase (Moving Pictures = CrazyGreat, Couldn't Stand The Weather = Meh).  My reference is the HD-800.  Out of the box, the first thing you notice on the HE-1000 is loads and loads of bass.  Deep, deep, deep, full-bodied, unapologetic bass.  So much that I pulled the GZ-34 rectifiers in favor of the 596s, which lets the bass extend without much coloration or boost.  That seemed to tame things a bit.  At lower volumes the GZ-34 is a pretty cool match because you get all of that deep bass while listening quietly.  The question is how will they change as the headphone breaks in?  We'll see.  I can say they are the best imaging headphones I've heard (and keep in mind I've had them for one night-- these are initial impressions only).  The HD-800 may have a wider soundstage (the one area I think the HD-800 bested the HE-1000 so far) but it's nowhere near as precise when it comes to imaging and that's a tradeoff I'll take in a second.  I'm a huge fan of the HD-800.  But there's a new boss in town, and I think he's going to take up permanent residence.


----------



## Clayton SF

mikelap said:


> Got this rectifier on at the moment a CHATHAM 5R4WGA bassy i like it also like the price $6.00


 
  
 I agree. This is my WA 6 in February of 2010.


----------



## 3083joe

clayton sf said:


> I agree. This is my WA 6 in February of 2010.


 
 Got this rectifier on at the moment a CHATHAM 5R4WGA bassy
  
 Does it fit the WA6?


----------



## Clayton SF

3083joe said:


> Got this rectifier on at the moment a CHATHAM 5R4WGA bassy
> 
> Does it fit the WA6?


 
  
 Yes. The base is slim enough, thankfully.


----------



## 3083joe

clayton sf said:


> Yes. The base is slim enough, thankfully.



Any other good rectifiers or power tubes you know of for wa6
I have princess


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Any other good rectifiers or power tubes you know of for wa6
> I have princess


 
   National Union 596 but you'll also need an adapter…if you decide too try this tube, I would buy the adapter from Glenn.


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes! I love this one. CV 1863 / 5Z4G.
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_cv1863.html


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> National Union 596 but you'll also need an adapter…if you decide too try this tube, I would buy the adapter from Glenn.



Who Glenn? I take the adapters for sure.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Who Glenn?* I take the adapters for sure.*


 
 Do you already have a NU-596? Is this why you'll take the adapters for sure?
 2359Glenn…he is a member here, and builds highly regarded tube amplifiers and tube adapters. You can shoot him a PM if your interested. I forgot to mention, the Brimar 5Z4G is an excellent rectifier tube also, it is a must at its price/performance ratio…for sure.


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> Any other good rectifiers or power tubes you know of for wa6
> I have princess


I like 6SN7 power tubes in my WA6.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Do you already have a NU-596? Is this why you'll take the adapters for sure?
> 2359Glenn…he is a member here, and builds highly regarded tube amplifiers and tube adapters. You can shoot him a PM if your interested. I forgot to mention, the Brimar 5Z4G is an excellent rectifier tube also, it is a must at its price/performance ratio…for sure.



No I do not have my-596
I ordered the 6DE7 with adapter. 
I will pm Glenn and see what he says. 
Thanks so much.


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> I like 6SN7 power tubes in my WA6.



Cool. I'll look into it.


----------



## Silent One

I greatly preferred 6SN7 drive tubes in my _WA 6 Special Edition._


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> No I do not have my-596
> *I ordered the 6DE7 with adapter.*
> I will pm Glenn and see what he says.
> Thanks so much.


 
 Maybe I should have been clearer…the NU-596/Brimar 5Z4G are rectifier tubes, and only the NU-596 needs an adapter to work with the WA6, the Brimar 5Z4G does not need an adapter.
*The 6DE7 does not need an adapter, *and is a power/driver tube.


----------



## 3083joe

@joseph69
Thanks I'm new to the tube rolling world.


----------



## longbowbbs

3083joe here is the Mighty 596 with a Glenn adapter.


----------



## 3083joe

silent one said:


> I greatly preferred 6SN7 drive tubes in my _WA 6 Special Edition._


 

 Does it work in the straight WA6?


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Does it work in the straight WA6?


 
 Yes they do.
 6SN7 power/driver tubes require 6DE7>6SN7 adapters which I would highly recommend buying from Woo Audio…they are very well made.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Yes they do.
> 6SN7 power/driver tubes require 6DE7>6SN7 adapters which I would highly recommend buying from Woo Audio…they are very well made.


 

 I purchased the 6GL7/6EM7 to 6FDE7 Adapters but didn't see this one?


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Yes they do.
> 6SN7 power/driver tubes require 6DE7>6SN7 adapters which I would highly recommend buying from Woo Audio…they are very well made.


 

 Oh i see it 
 Thanks


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Oh i see it
> Thanks


 
 Your welcome.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Yes they do.
> 6SN7 power/driver tubes require 6DE7>6SN7 adapters which I would highly recommend buying from Woo Audio…they are very well made.


 
  
 +1.Very good adapters for the WA6.


----------



## 3083joe

longbowbbs said:


> 3083joe here is the Mighty 596 with a Glenn adapter.


 

@2359glenn I need on of these.


----------



## 3083joe

@Clayton SF 
 Where can i purchase this CV 1863 / 5Z4G?
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


3083joe said:


> @Clayton SF
> Where can i purchase this CV 1863 / 5Z4G?
> Thanks


 
 http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> @Clayton SF
> Where can i purchase this CV 1863 / 5Z4G?
> Thanks


 

 I'm not Clayton but I will answer.
  
 Here:
  
 http://langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
  
 Look down the list until you see.
  
 5Z4G BRIMAR -
_Made in England CV1863 Military Spec_
  
 I purchased 14 of these. All were great.


----------



## JamesBr

longbowbbs said:


> 3083joe here is the Mighty 596 with a Glenn adapter.


 
  
 Kill me now! This is just beautiful!!!!


----------



## 3083joe

longbowbbs said:


> 3083joe here is the Mighty 596 with a Glenn adapter.


 

 Where can i get the Tube?
 TIA


----------



## 2359glenn

3083joe said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > 3083joe here is the Mighty 596 with a Glenn adapter.
> ...


 

 Here are a few of them
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=596+tube&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=48188&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=13&_dmd=1&_ipg=100


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> Here are a few of them
> [COLOR=0066CC]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=596+tube&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=48188&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=13&_dmd=1&_ipg=100[/COLOR]



Man. All sold.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ...
> 
> I purchased 14 of these. All were great.


 
  
 Hard core obsessives don't stop until they have 16


----------



## reeltime

Don't forget to ask Jack.  He sometimes gets a small supply of 596s.  I got mine from him (the adapters, too) a couple of years ago.
  
 My 596s go in and out depending on the headphone I'm using.  Currently they're "in" because they're the best match I own for the new HE-1000.  After jumping through hoops (and spending a lot) to find a matched pair of metal base GZ-34s, they pump too much bass to my new cans.  
  
 The 596 is a beautiful sounding tube.  I get hot and cold on the whole Frankenstein look, but you can't knock the sound.


----------



## isquirrel

I sent Tony and Badas this pic I took today but I thought why not share it with the others
  
 Bit of tube love


----------



## Porteroso

3083joe said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Here are a few of them
> ...


 
 Somehow that link will only show you sold items, even if you do a new search. Just go to ebay.com, and search for "596 tube." You will find some.


----------



## 3083joe

porteroso said:


> Somehow that link will only show you sold items, even if you do a new search. Just go to ebay.com, and search for "596 tube." You will find some.



Thanks. Nothing yet. Will just keep checking.


----------



## Porteroso

Wow, you're right. I searched last night before I posted that, and there were at least 6. Someone must have gone in and bought them all.


----------



## 3083joe

porteroso said:


> Wow, you're right. I searched last night before I posted that, and there were at least 6. Someone must have gone in and bought them all.



If you find one let me know. I'll jump right on it.


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> I sent Tony and Badas this pic I took today but I thought why not share it with the others
> 
> Bit of tube love



Which tube is this


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> If you find one let me know. I'll jump right on it.


 
 If you twist my arm with a good offer I might sell you one of my backup pairs (but only as a pair, not a single).
 I will be selling a pair of Mullard ECC32 brown base and  pair of EAT 300B with less than 75 hours on them.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> If you twist my arm with a good offer I might sell you one of my backup pairs (but only as a pair, not a single).
> I will be selling a pair of Mullard ECC32 brown base and  pair of EAT 300B with less than 75 hours on them.



Not sure what would be a good price. 
They seem to go for lots of different prices. 
You let me know. 
Also is the tube above the Mullards or something different 
Thanks


----------



## isquirrel

3083joe said:


> Which tube is this


 

 RCA Grey Glass 6SN&, Takatsuki 300B & 274B


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> RCA Grey Glass 6SN&, Takatsuki 300B & 274B


 

 Absolute tube porn.


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> RCA Grey Glass 6SN&, Takatsuki 300B & 274B


 

 Thanks


----------



## bumblebeezack

Hi everyone! I'm a noob posting in this forum although I've been lurking for quite some time. I am finally a proud owner of a black WA6. This is after auditioning the Beyer A20, Burson Soloist SL, the Schiit Vali, ALO Pan Am and a few others. Just love the tunes coming out of the amp... Although I did like the Burson too but in the end the WA6 won me over. Plus I love the look of tube amps! That Sophia Electric Princess is singing me a siren song and I feel myself weakening!


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Hi everyone! I'm a noob posting in this forum although I've been lurking for quite some time. I am finally a proud owner of a black WA6. This is after auditioning the Beyer A20, Burson Soloist SL, the Schiit Vali, ALO Pan Am and a few others. Just love the tunes coming out of the amp... Although I did like the Burson too but in the end the WA6 won me over. Plus I love the look of tube amps! That Sophia Electric Princess is singing me a siren song and I feel myself weakening!


 
  
 Welcome to the WA6 club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - my first tube amp and it is still running strong.
  
 Sophia Princess is OK, but there are better rectifiers out there for less $$$.
  
 I am currently running Brimar rectifier and NU 6F8Gs. Very nice.


----------



## Badas

^

I have heard this exact rig and this tube combination. I can confirm that it sounds amazing.

I kinda scratched my head and thought why did I need my WA22 or did Tony need his WA5 after hearing the WA6. It is that good. 

It might be a little under powered to run my LCD-3's but if it could I would have been happy with the WA6.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> I have heard this exact rig and this tube combination. I can confirm that it sounds amazing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's very nice and pairs great with the HD600s... but the WA5 + modded HD800 combination is on another level entirely.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> Welcome to the WA6 club  - my first tube amp and it is still running strong.
> 
> Sophia Princess is OK, but there are better rectifiers out there for less $$$.
> 
> I am currently running Brimar rectifier and NU 6F8Gs. Very nice.




That looks really badass! Less money with great sound is a definite plus! How would you describe the sound of that setup against the stock tubes in caveman terms so I'd understand?


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> That looks really badass! Less money with great sound is a definite plus! How would you describe the sound of that setup against the stock tubes in caveman terms so I'd understand?


 
  
 Stock tubes are like sticking your pink bits in a wood chipper.
  
 Brimar + NU 6F8G is like having naked angels of audio delight deliver the music to your eardrums.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> Stock tubes are like sticking your pink bits in a wood chipper.
> 
> Brimar + NU 6F8G is like having naked angels of audio delight deliver the music to your eardrums.




Wow, throw in some unicorns and I'll throatily scream "Take my money!" 

But seriously, what's the ballpark figure to spend on that kinda setup? And did you have to modify the connections to the drive tubes to run that?


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Wow, throw in some unicorns and I'll throatily scream "Take my money!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's not that bad. The Brimars are excellent rectifiers and very inexpensive. The best value tube I have ever heard (or heard of). Available from Langrex in the UK (or slightly more expensive on Ebarf). Folks in the know rate them very highly - only the super tubes have them clearly beat (U52 / WE422A / Takatsuki 274B ... etc).
  
 NU 6F8Gs are not that pricey - available on Ebarf for around $100/pair NOS. Lovely sweet sounding driver with good extension and detail. Not quite the super tube that the TS RP is, but close, and with a lovely warmth. A sexy tube indeed.
  
 I use a 6DE7->6SN7 adapter and then top that with a 6SN7->6F8G adapter. Not pretty, but it works. You can get 6DE7->6F8G adapters that reduce the adapter stack, but if you plan on using 6SN7s at some stage it makes sense to have both.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> It's not that bad. The Brimars are excellent rectifiers and very inexpensive. The best value tube I have ever heard (or heard of). Available from Langrex in the UK (or slightly more expensive on Ebarf). Folks in the know rate them very highly - only the super tubes have them clearly beat (U52 / WE422A / Takatsuki 274B ... etc).
> 
> NU 6F8Gs are not that pricey - available on Ebarf for around $100/pair NOS. Lovely sweet sounding driver with good extension and detail. Not quite the super tube that the TS RP is, but close, and with a lovely warmth. A sexy tube indeed.
> 
> I use a 6DE7->6SN7 adapter and then top that with a 6SN7->6F8G adapter. Not pretty, but it works. You can get 6DE7->6F8G adapters that reduce the adapter stack, but if you plan on using 6SN7s at some stage it makes sense to have both.




Thank you for the info. Appreciate it. I also happened to read your tube shootout a couple of days ago which was interesting to say the least. I agree that stacks of adapters aren't pretty and I currently am still digging the prettiness of the amp. Shallow i know, but well, I'm sure you know what i am talking about. 

Just a final question. Which do u think gives the best bang for buck to swap first. Rectifier or drive tubes?


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Thank you for the info. Appreciate it. I also happened to read your tube shootout a couple of days ago which was interesting to say the least. I agree that stacks of adapters aren't pretty and I currently am still digging the prettiness of the amp. Shallow i know, but well, I'm sure you know what i am talking about.
> 
> Just a final question. Which do u think gives the best bang for buck to swap first. Rectifier or drive tubes?


 
  
 Depends on the amp. On the WA5 and WA6 I would suggest the drivers matter more than anything else, but there are plenty of folks out there that feel differently on that.
  
 The Brimars are so inexpensive I would start there and grab a few, then perhaps look at drivers. The NUs and TS RPs are the best I have tried (NOS or new production), but once you get into 6SN7 territory there are many, many options out there.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> Depends on the amp. On the WA5 and WA6 I would suggest the drivers matter more than anything else, but there are plenty of folks out there that feel differently on that.
> 
> The Brimars are so inexpensive I would start there and grab a few, then perhaps look at drivers. The NUs and TS RPs are the best I have tried (NOS or new production), but once you get into 6SN7 territory there are many, many options out there.




Thanks again! Learnt a lot from all these exchanges. I'll search up those tubes you recommended and see where it goes. At the same time l wanna see if I can discern a difference after 150 hrs of burn - in as recommended in Woo Audio's manual. And thank you for indirectly raking up my post count. I wanna upload photos but can't until I meet the forum's criteria.


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Thanks again! Learnt a lot from all these exchanges. I'll search up those tubes you recommended and see where it goes. At the same time l wanna see if I can discern a difference after 150 hrs of burn - in as recommended in Woo Audio's manual. And thank you for indirectly raking up my post count. I wanna upload photos but can't until I meet the forum's criteria.


 
  
 You're very welcome. The forum is at its best when folks are sharing and helping each other out


----------



## Silent One

bumblebeezack said:


> Thanks again! Learnt a lot from all these exchanges. I'll search up those tubes you recommended and see where it goes. At the same time l wanna see if I can discern a difference after 150 hrs of burn - in as recommended in Woo Audio's manual. And thank you for indirectly raking up my post count. I wanna upload photos but can't until I meet the forum's criteria.


 





 Perhaps 10?


----------



## isquirrel

bumblebeezack said:


> Thanks again! Learnt a lot from all these exchanges. I'll search up those tubes you recommended and see where it goes. At the same time l wanna see if I can discern a difference after 150 hrs of burn - in as recommended in Woo Audio's manual. And thank you for indirectly raking up my post count. I wanna upload photos but can't until I meet the forum's criteria.


 

 One of the most practical ways we can help you is for you to go for common inexpensive tubes like the Brimars and Sylvannia/RCA 6SN7's as they are a known quantity to most of us. Accordingly  we get to understand your sonic tastes and be of better help to you.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> You're very welcome. The forum is at its best when folks are sharing and helping each other out :wink_face:




Yes very helpful and I feel very welcomed so far in this thread. Yeah, I've read some stuff where things get pretty intense. Passionate people eh? But, I'm just glad that we have all this glorious stuff to listen to music on! 

P.S. Yes. I believe 10 posts or 15 days a member + 5 posts is the magic formula to having the member features unlocked..


----------



## bumblebeezack

isquirrel said:


> One of the most practical ways we can help you is for you to go for common inexpensive tubes like the Brimars and Sylvannia/RCA 6SN7's as they are a known quantity to most of us. Accordingly  we get to understand your sonic tastes and be of better help to you.




Hey-o! I keep hearing Brimars being mentioned so I'll definitely look into that and it's definitely priced well within my budget. 

I'll be absolutely frank here. I mentioned the Sophia Electric Princess merely because it looks pretty glowing. I have no idea how it sounds on the WA6. I'm a photographer by trade so looks kinda have a resonance for me as well. I know sound is important so I'm open to suggestions of course, after all I bought the amp for sound first and foremost. 

I am fortunate enough to live in a part of the world where the good hifi shops are all close to each other so most of the time I do get to audition stuff before I buy. However, tube rolling seems a dark art and I have to rely on the opinion of others and am relegated to buy online only. Hence Head-fi! 

My taste is basically I listen to all kind of songs that suits the mood. So that can be rock, jazz, pop, dubstep, world music, some classical and anything in between. Like right now, I'm listening to some Iron and Wine. I currently have a Beyer DTX501, DT 1350, Beyer COP, T70, the WA6, Bravo Audio V3, Fiio E12a, Soundmagic A10 all sourced from an ibasso DX50 with a mix of 24/16 bit flac, 320 kbps Mp3 and some other poorer recordings, which do sound bad but will have to do until I get better ones. I know. Too many Beyers. 

I am currently looking at a Schiit Modi Uber for the laptop, a Dunu DN2000J for an iem and I do like the HD800 for some of my music. And I want to try some tubes for the fun of it. PHEW, sorry for being long. Yup. That's where I stand soundwise now. Thanks all!


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Yes very helpful and I feel very welcomed so far in this thread. Yeah, I've read some stuff where things get pretty intense. Passionate people eh? But, I'm just glad that we have all this glorious stuff to listen to music on!
> 
> P.S. Yes. I believe 10 posts or 15 days a member + 5 posts is the magic formula to having the member features unlocked..


 
  
 Lots of different points of view to take in. Some folks get very passionate very quickly, others not.
  
 For a different take on the driver tubes I will throw my 2 cents out there. I spent a lot of time and money chasing drivers before finding the TS RPs and NUs. I have tried most of the NOS types out there, and just about all the new production drivers (6SN7/6F8G compatible). That took a lot of time and quite a bit of coin. It was quite a journey - if that is a journey that appeals to you I say go for it and enjoy - but I would have preferred to have saved my time and money and gone straight for the TS RPs and NUs. Nothing else that I have heard - NOS or new production - comes close to these.
  
 I have not heard the Brimar 6SN7 - this is a rare and very expensive tube - apart from that I think I have covered most others at some point.
  
 So I suggest you ignore the Sylvanias (a wretched tube to my ears - bright and nasty) and the RCA 6SN7 (warm, but muddy compared to the TS RP or NU). Personally, I binned my Sylvanias. I have kept my RCA 6SN7s as these are the tubes I give to my repair guy when my WA5 is getting fixed for him to test with - I never - repeat never - listen to them after having found the TS RP and NUs.
  
 All the new productions drivers I have bought - Psvane T2, Sophia Electric, Shuguang BT, TJ Full Music, Electro-Harmonix and a bunch of others - all binned.
  
 Lots of folks are going to disagree with me on the above - that's fine - this forum is all about folks sharing different points of view and experiences. My thoughts on drivers are above. Hope it helps


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> Lots of different points of view to take in. Some folks get very passionate very quickly, others not.
> 
> For a different take on the driver tubes I will throw my 2 cents out there. I spent a lot of time and money chasing drivers before finding the TS RPs and NUs. I have tried most of the NOS types out there, and just about all the new production drivers (6SN7/6F8G compatible). That took a lot of time and quite a bit of coin. It was quite a journey - if that is a journey that appeals to you I say go for it and enjoy - but I would have preferred to have saved my time and money and gone straight for the TS RPs and NUs. Nothing else that I have heard - NOS or new production - comes close to these.
> 
> ...




I am a little lost. What's a TS RP? That's a rectifier I presume?


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> I am a little lost. What's a TS RP? That's a rectifier I presume?


 
  
 Nope - driver tube.
  
 TS RP = Tung-Sol Round Plate. About the best 6SN7 type driver there is, according to many folks, and the pricing reflects this.
  
 NU = National Union (6F8G), also a driver tube. I think it is close to the TS RP in terms of technical qualities, and also has a lovely warm and sweet tonality. Can be had considerably cheaper than the TS RP.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> Nope - driver tube.
> 
> TS RP = Tung-Sol Round Plate. About the best 6SN7 type driver there is, according to many folks, and the pricing reflects this.
> 
> NU = National Union (6F8G), also a driver tube. I think it is close to the TS RP in terms of technical qualities, and also has a lovely warm and sweet tonality. Can be had considerably cheaper than the TS RP.




I looked up the Tung Sol and apparently there are some with gt or gtb after 6SN7. Any difference? And I see anything from say 40 usd a matched pair to 600 USD. What...?


----------



## devilboy

@bumblebeezack: you should speak with Andy from Vintage Tube Services. He's extremely knowledgeable (he actually prefers speaking on the phone vs emailing). I've been dealing with him for years with great results.


----------



## isquirrel

devilboy said:


> @bumblebeezack: you should speak with Andy from Vintage Tube Services. He's extremely knowledgeable (he actually prefers speaking on the phone vs emailing). I've been dealing with him for years with great results.


 

 +1 on that, Andy's a good friend, although he knows his stuff like no-one else on tubes he can be a little ambivalent about the best sounding tube for a given application unless he has had experience 1st hand of the equipment. I too have used him for years but recently have been picking up some gems elsewhere. Try and download a copy of the RCA tube guide 1957. Huge amount of good info in there.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Lots of different points of view to take in. Some folks get very passionate very quickly, others not.
> 
> For a different take on the driver tubes I will throw my 2 cents out there. I spent a lot of time and money chasing drivers before finding the TS RPs and NUs. I have tried most of the NOS types out there, and just about all the new production drivers (6SN7/6F8G compatible). That took a lot of time and quite a bit of coin. It was quite a journey - if that is a journey that appeals to you I say go for it and enjoy - but I would have preferred to have saved my time and money and gone straight for the TS RPs and NUs. Nothing else that I have heard - NOS or new production - comes close to these.
> 
> ...


 

 Tony, I agree on the Sylvania's although some people love them. Can't agree on the RCA this latest batch I have is in a different league compared to the other varieties, in fact they are as good as if not better than the TS RP's much to my amazement.


----------



## bumblebeezack

devilboy said:


> @bumblebeezack: you should speak with Andy from Vintage Tube Services. He's extremely knowledgeable (he actually prefers speaking on the phone vs emailing). I've been dealing with him for years with great results.




I've visited Andy's site and has perused his catalog of tubes. Lots to take in of course. Unfortunately calling him isn't really an option as I'll be making my telco even richer. But thanks for the heads up.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Nope - driver tube.
> 
> TS RP = Tung-Sol Round Plate. About the best 6SN7 type driver there is, according to many folks, and the pricing reflects this.
> 
> NU = National Union (6F8G), also a driver tube. I think it is close to the TS RP in terms of technical qualities, and also has a lovely warm and sweet tonality. Can be had considerably cheaper than the TS RP.


 

 Are these the NU's?

  
 And are these the TS Round


----------



## 3083joe

and is this the 6f8g adapters?


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> and is this the 6f8g adapters?


 

 Yes they are but those are cheap dont buy those 2359Glenn makes good ones and he is in U.S. you can send him a pm            http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn


----------



## Khragon

Glenn adapter > all.


----------



## Porteroso

To be fair to the ebay adapters, I have some, and they worked just fine. I also ended up getting Glenn adapters for 6DE7-->6F8G with Joseph, and they are impeccable. They look pretty good too. Of course, for the price difference, they should.
  
 About the Sophia Princess, I agree with the statement that it looks amazing. And it's not as bad as we sometimes make it out to be, it's just that other things are better.
  
 I would always start with the National Union 6F8G, well, at least on the WA6. There is very little difference in detail, accuracy of tonality, and dynamics between them and the TS rp. I have a few pairs of both, and the TS rp are not really noticeably better. If you a/b them, you can detect differences, but I don't think I could pass a blind test comparison. I doubt that most people could, really. Not on the WA6. As Tony unfortunately found out, the NUs do not hold up well when asked to drive bigger rectifiers. Good for the WA6 owners really, we have a great sounding tube that the big amps cannot use.
  
 By the way, the "round plate" specification refers to the top plate. If it is round, it is round. TS also comes in flat plates. You never see people's impressions of those, I would love to hear them. I have 1, but, well, I would need 2 to hear them. 
  
 edit: It is also interesting to see that isquirrel found some RCAs that don't sound muddy. When I originally read about them, I did read that the earliest ones were "where the true magic is" or something like that. Mine are a bit muddy in the mid bass and lower. I would love to hear some that are really good and find out when they were made. Of course maybe you just got a lucky 1 in a million pair, I'm sure that happens too.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> About the Sophia Princess, I agree with the statement that it looks amazing. And it's not as bad as we sometimes make it out to be, it's just that other things are better.
> 
> edit: It is also interesting to see that isquirrel found some RCAs that don't sound muddy.


 
 I also enjoy my Sophia Princess…and I also have early Sylvania/RCA 6SN7's that sound great…not muddy at all.


----------



## JamesBr

khragon said:


> Glenn adapter > all.


 
  
 I have to agree with Khrogon, Glenn is hard to compete with!


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Are these the NU's?
> 
> 
> And are these the TS Round


 
  
 The NUs I am yarping on about only come in 6F8G style with a top electrode (I think). Never seen them in 6SN7 style.
  
 They have large plates with a central oval bulge that are closely spaced.
  
 Some pics - note the plate structure - very distinctive:
  

  

  
 6F8G tubes have terrible re-branding issues. The only good indicator of what the tube really is, is the plate structure. Even this can be confusing. There are 6F8G tube that look very similar to the NU and are often labelled RCA. These have almost identical plates, but they are spaced much further apart. The sound is quite different - highly detailed, but rather bright bordering on dry. None of that special NU sweetness. These tubes can often be had very cheaply, but they are not NUs and do not have the NU sound. Even so, they would beat most of the new production drivers out there IMHO.
  
 TS RPs have closely spaced plates that have a round edge facing each other.
  

  
 As others have mentioned, there is a TS flat plate version. I have never tried it - it has a good rep, but not as good as the RP.
  
 Apologies on the camera work - not my strong suit.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> The NUs I am yarping on about only come in 6F8G style with a top electrode (I think). Never seen them in 6SN7 style.
> 
> They have large plates with a central oval bulge that are closely spaced.
> 
> ...



Thanks. 
If I can just found some. 
Are you using 2 adapters on your wa6? 
Really want these drivers


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Thanks.
> If I can just found some.
> Are you using 2 adapters on your wa6?
> Really want these drivers


 

  Yep - never bothered with 6DE7->6F8G adapters.
  
 The bottom ones are Woo 6DE7->6SN7, topped with some craptastic EBarf 6SN7->6F8Gs.
  
 The Woo adapters are rather good, by the way.
  
 I have some excellent 6SN7->6F8G adapters from Glenn that I use on my WA5. The WA6 gets the cast offs.


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> I also enjoy my Sophia Princess…and I also have early Sylvania/RCA 6SN7's that sound great…not muddy at all.


 

 I have just got off the phone with Andy from VTS and sent him some photos of my "Golden" 6SN7's he is goring to do some research and get back to me. 
  
 What is remarkable is that RCA's have always had a good soundstage but the mid range while almost always rich was a little recessed. One of the reasons I fell in love with the TS RP was the immediacy of their presentation. These RCA's have closed that gap and offer even more detail and layering in the front to back and side to side soundstage that I have not heard from RCA's before. The bass weight and extension is not as detailed or controlled as the TS RP but the RCA has a little more bass weight. SO perhaps for me I have reached the Holy Grail of 6SN7's - the RCA's have that lovely rich tonal palette while still retaining the dynamic immediacy and resolution of the TS RP.
  
 I will say this: RCA's vary a lot, most of them are just average but some are a magical, these appear to be as rare as mooniest. When I find out a reliable source I will post it here 1st.
  
 I have a few sets of the Brimars, nice tubes, very polite sounding they do everything well but there is no magic like in the above 2 tubes. Good Sylvannia's can be incredibly transparent and have good bass, in the wrong system they can sound bright. There is also a huge differential in quality.


----------



## joseph69

Thank you.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> The NUs I am yarping on about only come in 6F8G style with a top electrode (I think). Never seen them in 6SN7 style.
> 
> They have large plates with a central oval bulge that are closely spaced.
> 
> ...




I'll help you with the photos with a caveat. I get to listen to your wa6 setup! Haha! Kidding!


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> I'll help you with the photos with a caveat. I get to listen to your wa6 setup! Haha! Kidding!


 
  
 My WA5 setup is better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hope to take possession of a Glenn 300B amp in the next few months - that promises to take my tube time to another level again.


----------



## devilboy

My WA2 arrived today!...........and then left immediately.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> My WA5 setup is better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh man you and I are on the same path.  I'm on the waiting list too.


----------



## Badas

The NU 6F8G is super nice and is my second favorite tube. There is a 6SN7 version that has the same plates as the 6F8G type. I haven't tried them myself however others have said they are magic. So you can avoid the adapters if you want and hunt down the 6SN7 version. Might take a bit of hunting.
  
 I could hear a difference between the Tung-Sol Round Plate and the NU. To be honest I had been using the NU 6F8G for about 6 weeks and was already in heaven. Then I rolled in the Tung-Sol round plate. Something was different. Not really obvious. However I nearly cried. I'm sure I hit the floor fainting. The Tung-Sol round plate was like heaven going to heaven. Sound signatures are very similar. I think the Tung-Sol is just more liquid and transparent. Hence it is my favorite tube. I would declare war if anyone tried to take them from me now. I have 11 sets and I will eventually (next month) buy 3 more.
  

  
 WA22 with Brimar 5Z4GY (Rectifier), Tung-Sol round plates with Glenn adapters (Drivers) and Mullard 6080 (power).


----------



## Krutsch

devilboy said:


> My WA2 arrived today!...........and then left immediately.


 
  
 Oh, man, I so hate it when that happens. Especially when I've been careful to track the package in transit.
  
 Congrats on your WA2; my next Head-Fi purchase.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Thanks.
> If I can just found some.
> Are you using 2 adapters on your wa6?
> Really want these drivers


 
 Here are some photos of the 6DE7>6F8G adapters and the 5AR4>596 adapters from Glenn in my WA6.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Here are some photos of the 6DE7>6F8G adapters and the 5AR4>596 adapters from Glenn in my WA6.


 
  
 How did you paint the red bits to your amp? Did you take the bits to a car painter or something?


----------



## masmole

Just when I thought I knew the lingo of some of these tube descriptions, I'm again confused.
  
 When describing "round plate" or "flat plate" or "T-plate", what exactly is this plate you are all referring to?  The vertically or horizontally oriented structures?   Is it called "round plate" on that tung-sol 6F8G on Badas' W22 amp because the horizontal structure is round when looking at the tube from above?   Lastly, what is this spacing you refer to -- the spacing between the plate and the glass?
  
 I ask because I just acquired a couple of pairs of 6F8G tubes (Tung Sol and National Union) and both pairs look very similar with the same blacked out lower portion of the glass as in Badas' pic.  But now I'm not sure if mine are the "good" kind... perhaps I will post pics later.


----------



## Silent One

TS-BGRP 1942-44
 Tung-Sol Black Glass Round Plate is what I had in my Black _WooAudio WA 6 Special Edition._


----------



## Badas

masmole said:


> Just when I thought I knew the lingo of some of these tube descriptions, I'm again confused.
> 
> When describing "round plate" or "flat plate" or "T-plate", what exactly is this plate you are all referring to?  The vertically or horizontally oriented structures?   Is it called "round plate" on that tung-sol 6F8G on Badas' W22 amp because the horizontal structure is round when looking at the tube from above?   Lastly, what is this spacing you refer to -- the spacing between the plate and the glass?
> 
> I ask because I just acquired a couple of pairs of 6F8G tubes (Tung Sol and National Union) and both pairs look very similar with the same blacked out lower portion of the glass as in Badas' pic.  But now I'm not sure if mine are the "good" kind... perhaps I will post pics later.


 

 The discs that are horizontal are called micras
 The plates that are vertical are called plates. They can be all different shapes and colours. Flat, T or round. Usually black or Grey however I have seen chrome as well.
 There is also getters. Which can be round, square or D which is half round with a straight bit.
  
 Here is a pic of a round plate. See plates are round.
  


 Here is a pic of the flat plate. The plates look exactly like a RCA 6SN7 and I suspect they are. Flat with a 3 step ladder embossed in it.
  

  
 Here is what they look like without the paint. Tung-Sol make it hard as they paint over the area. You must be careful.
  

  
  
 Here is a pic of a T plate. Made by Sylvania rebranded as Tung-Sol. See the plate is folded to make a T shape.
  

  
 The Tung-Sol round plate is amazing. The flat plate sounds like a RCA which is not bad but not worth any extra $$'s than what RCA sell for. The T plates are dog crap sounding.


----------



## isquirrel

masmole said:


> Just when I thought I knew the lingo of some of these tube descriptions, I'm again confused.
> 
> When describing "round plate" or "flat plate" or "T-plate", what exactly is this plate you are all referring to?  The vertically or horizontally oriented structures?   Is it called "round plate" on that tung-sol 6F8G on Badas' W22 amp because the horizontal structure is round when looking at the tube from above?   Lastly, what is this spacing you refer to -- the spacing between the plate and the glass?
> 
> I ask because I just acquired a couple of pairs of 6F8G tubes (Tung Sol and National Union) and both pairs look very similar with the same blacked out lower portion of the glass as in Badas' pic.  But now I'm not sure if mine are the "good" kind... perhaps I will post pics later.




The plates are the vertical structures, the top of the tubes holding the plates in place are the Mica's. Spacing is usually the gap between the Mica's and the plates. Be worthwhile doing a wiki search on vacuum tubes to help you pick up the lingo, it can be a little intimidating at first. Certainly was for me !


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> How did you paint the red bits to your amp? Did you take the bits to a car painter or something?


 
 Yes, I took it to a custom car painting shop and paid $500.00 for the paint job.
 Totally kidding…All the workmanship credit goes to my father. All I did was come up with the idea, paint it and apply it too the amp. I went to Home Depot and bought a plank of Oak and Martha Stewarts (Barn Red) paint, then wiped it on the oak with my two fingers then immediately wiped it off with a cotton T-shirt and repeated this until the Oak absorbed the paint too my liking, then let it dry (about 10-minutes) then applied it too the amp with silicon. The total cost was under $12.00.


----------



## masmole

great info all, thanks!


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I took it to a custom car painting shop and paid $500.00 for the paint job.
> Totally kidding…All the workmanship credit goes to my father. All I did was come up with the idea, paint it and apply it too the amp. I went to Home Depot and bought a plank of Oak and Martha Stewarts (Barn Red) paint, then wiped it on the oak with my two fingers then immediately wiped it off with a cotton T-shirt and repeated this until the Oak absorbed the paint too my liking, then let it dry (about 10-minutes) then applied it too the amp with silicon. The total cost was under $12.00.


 
  
 I like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 be nice to see more modded amps down the track, like computer rigs.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> I like it
> 
> 
> 
> be nice to see more modded amps down the track, like computer rigs.


 
 Thank you!


----------



## masmole

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I took it to a custom car painting shop and paid $500.00 for the paint job.
> Totally kidding…All the workmanship credit goes to my father. All I did was come up with the idea, paint it and apply it too the amp. I went to Home Depot and bought a plank of Oak and Martha Stewarts (Barn Red) paint, then wiped it on the oak with my two fingers then immediately wiped it off with a cotton T-shirt and repeated this until the Oak absorbed the paint too my liking, then let it dry (about 10-minutes) then applied it too the amp with silicon. The total cost was under $12.00.


 

 excellent... did you use some kind of high temperature paint?   I'm guessing most regular paints would probably not hold up well over time with repeated heat cycles.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I took it to a custom car painting shop and paid $500.00 for the paint job.
> Totally kidding…All the workmanship credit goes to my father. All I did was come up with the idea, paint it and apply it too the amp. I went to Home Depot and bought a plank of Oak and Martha Stewarts (Barn Red) paint, then wiped it on the oak with my two fingers then immediately wiped it off with a cotton T-shirt and repeated this until the Oak absorbed the paint too my liking, then let it dry (about 10-minutes) then applied it too the amp with silicon. The total cost was under $12.00.


 
  
 It looks fantastic.
  


masmole said:


> great info all, thanks!


 
  
 What you have to watch with all tubes is the sellers.
  
 If a seller has Tung-Sol round plates they will advertise it as such as they know they are the best. They will also demand the $$'s.
  
 If a seller has flat plates they will advertise like this *TUNG-SOL Black plates*. Technically nothing wrong but trying to make out they are special. Then they will try and get round plate $$'s.
  
 If a seller has T plates they will just sell them at Sylvania prices. Altho there might be a cheeky seller try to sell them as something special.
  
 Always buy from what you see internally.
  
  


isquirrel said:


> I like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes it would. Those WA22's with the writing coloured in a few weeks back was a step in the right direction.


----------



## 3083joe

masmole said:


> Just when I thought I knew the lingo of some of these tube descriptions, I'm again confused.
> 
> When describing "round plate" or "flat plate" or "T-plate", what exactly is this plate you are all referring to?  The vertically or horizontally oriented structures?   Is it called "round plate" on that tung-sol 6F8G on Badas' W22 amp because the horizontal structure is round when looking at the tube from above?   Lastly, what is this spacing you refer to -- the spacing between the plate and the glass?
> 
> I ask because I just acquired a couple of pairs of 6F8G tubes (Tung Sol and National Union) and both pairs look very similar with the same blacked out lower portion of the glass as in Badas' pic.  But now I'm not sure if mine are the "good" kind... perhaps I will post pics later.


 

 Still have the NU? want to sale them?


----------



## Khragon

I have 2 pair if you are interested


----------



## 3083joe

khragon said:


> I have 2 pair if you are interested


 

 PM sent


----------



## 3083joe

@Khragon For sure!


----------



## joseph69

masmole said:


> excellent... did you use some kind of high temperature paint?   I'm guessing most regular paints would probably not hold up well over time with repeated heat cycles.


 
 Thank you very much!
 No, I used Martha Stewarts Barn Red (Glidden Duo Tintable Tester Interior Eggshell Paint+Primer all in one) and have no issues at all with heat…as a matter of fact, my WA6 only gets slightly warm even after listening for 4-5 hours. Same goes for the silicon holding the wood on, no issues at all, and I can easily remove the wood if the amp needed to be sent to Woo for any reason.
  


badas said:


> It looks fantastic.


 
 Thanks again.


----------



## devilboy

Thanks Krutsch. 
  
 The doortag......bittersweet torture.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Thank you very much!
> No, I used Martha Stewarts Barn Red (Glidden Duo Tintable Tester Interior Eggshell Paint+Primer all in one) and have no issues at all with heat…as a matter of fact, my WA6 only gets slightly warm even after listening for 4-5 hours. Same goes for the silicon holding the wood on, no issues at all, and I can easily remove the wood if the amp needed to be sent to Woo for any reason.
> 
> Thanks again.



Beautiful.


----------



## abvolt

I bet that's a hard tube to find, sure looks good though..


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Beautiful.


 
 Thank you very much!


----------



## Stereolab42

So I ordered a second WA5, actually a silver WA5-LE with upgraded parts, to replace my WA6-SE at the office. (Not sure what I will do with the 6 yet, sell or keep for backup...) I just can't get enough of that 300B sound! I justified it by considering getting a WA234, dismissing the idea, then immediately congratulating myself for saving over 10 grand. (That's logical, right?)


----------



## Khragon

WA5 at the office? Wow, must be a nice office.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> ... I just can't get enough of that 300B sound! I justified it by considering getting a WA234, dismissing the idea, then immediately congratulating myself for saving over 10 grand. (That's logical, right?)


 
  
 Thought about the WA234, but that price just doesn't pass my sanity check.
  
 Which 300Bs are you running in your (home) WA5? Have you tried the Takatsukis? I was drooling over the thought of Elrogs, but the recent reliability issues have had me switch my tube fantasy across to Takatsukis.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> So I ordered a second WA5, actually a silver WA5-LE with upgraded parts, to replace my WA6-SE at the office. (Not sure what I will do with the 6 yet, sell or keep for backup...) I just can't get enough of that 300B sound! I justified it by considering getting a WA234, dismissing the idea, then immediately congratulating myself for saving over 10 grand. (That's logical, right?)


 
 Nice, congratulations.
 And yes, that sounds logical too me.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Hey Woo Crew.  Just got word that my WA5 is in route to my hot little hands, and have been reading up on tubes, of course.  I know it's all what "your ears" like, but was wondering if you guys had a suggestions on starting points for rolling.  I've been reading a lot about the *TUNG-SOL 6SN7GT round plates, and was wondering if it's all hype.  *
  
*Any input on this?  Really worth 250/tube?*


----------



## bpcans

michaelkeeney said:


> Hey Woo Crew.  Just got word that my WA5 is in route to my hot little hands, and have been reading up on tubes, of course.  I know it's all what "your ears" like, but was wondering if you guys had a suggestions on starting points for rolling.  I've been reading a lot about the [COLOR=333333]*TUNG-SOL 6SN7GT round plates, and was wondering if it's all hype.  *[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=333333]*Any input on this?  Really worth 250/tube?*[/COLOR]


If I remember correctly @TonyNewman is the guy to axe about WA5 tubes.


----------



## michaelkeeney

bpcans said:


> If I remember correctly @TonyNewman is the guy to axe about WA5 tubes.


 
 Awesome!  Thanks for the lead.  I'll ask Tony


----------



## 3083joe

michaelkeeney said:


> Awesome!  Thanks for the lead.  I'll ask Tony



When you find out, let us know what you find out.
Tia


----------



## TonyNewman

michaelkeeney said:


> *... Any input on this?  Really worth 250/tube?*


 
  
 Some folks say yes - I am not so sure. The 6SL7 version sounds great and can be had for much less dosh than the 6SN7. These are stunningly good tubes - don't get me wrong - just that my personal tastes lean more towards the NU.
  
 I have never heard a TS RP 6SN7, so I cannot be 100% certain that the sound is _*exactly *_the same to the 6SL7.
  
 Nice thing about the 6SL7 version is that it is a direct replacement - no adapter required.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Some folks say yes - I am not so sure. The 6SL7 version sounds great and can be had for much less dosh than the 6SN7. These are stunningly good tubes - don't get me wrong - just that my personal tastes lean more towards the NU.
> 
> I have never heard a TS RP 6SN7, so I cannot be 100% certain that the sound is _*exactly *_the same to the 6SL7.
> 
> Nice thing about the 6SL7 version is that it is a direct replacement - no adapter required.


 

 Ok, What is the best way to do the NU on wa6? 6SL7, 6SN7, or 6F8G?
 TIA


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Ok, What is the best way to do the NU on wa6? 6SL7, 6SN7, or 6F8G?
> TIA


 
  
 I have never seen an NU in 6SN7 or 6SL7. I am told that the NU 6SN7 exists, but is hard to find.
  
 I use NU 6F8G and enjoy it immensely (as per the pics posted several posts back).


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> I have never seen an NU in 6SN7 or 6SL7. I am told that the NU 6SN7 exists, but is hard to find.
> 
> I use NU 6F8G and enjoy it immensely (as per the pics posted several posts back).


 

 yes thats what I'm trying to find but can't at this time


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> I have never seen an NU in 6SN7 or 6SL7. I am told that the NU 6SN7 exists, but is hard to find.
> 
> I use NU 6F8G and enjoy it immensely (as per the pics posted several posts back).


 

 Heres the 6SN7


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> yes thats what I'm trying to find but can't at this time


 
  
 Try NU 6C8G. Same adapter, same SQ as the 6F8G. This version is also compatible in the WA5 driving 300Bs (the 6F8G NU is noisy as hell driving 300Bs).
  
 You should be able to find an EBarf seller for one or the other.


----------



## 3083joe

@TonyNewman 
 Thanks!!!! found some


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Heres the 6SN7


 
  
 Thank you.
  
 It's a pity that the glass is blacked out, as it would be nice to check the internals to be 100% sure it really is an NU. I have learned the hard way not to put too much trust in the tube branding.


----------



## 3083joe

Whats the inside suppose to look like?


----------



## 3083joe

@TonyNewman 
 What about these?
 NU 6C8G?


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> @TonyNewman
> What about these?
> NU 6C8G?


 
  
 That's them.


----------



## devilboy

Missed the WA2 yesterday.  Just got home from FedEx and--
 I...am...in...heaven.


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> Missed the WA2 yesterday.  Just got home from FedEx and--
> I...am...in...heaven.


 
  
 Congrats. Such a nice looking amp. I highly considered that one before getting the WA22. Nice looking combo and rig.
  
 Are the power tubes Chatham / Tung-Sol 6AS7G, 6520 or 5998. Just guessing as they don't look stock. I think Chatham 6AS7G. Nice tubes.


----------



## devilboy

Thanks Badas!  I also considered the WA22 but the price was more than I wanted to spend right now.  Plus considering that I would go balanced into the HD800, that only jacked up the price even more.  Maybe one day......
  
 Yes, the power tubes are the Chatham / Tung-Sol 6AS7G.  You have a good eye.  After a lot of reading (thanks to the community), My tastes and wallet settled on the Chatham 6AS7G.  I was racking my brain day in and day out on which tubes to get, I just had to finally pull the trigger on SOMETHING.  It's quite maddening actually.  LOL. 
  
 I'm having a blast with headphone listening.  I've spent my entire audio life listening to loudspeakers and I'm so glad I took the plunge into headfi.  The community has been extremely kind and helpful. 
  
 You have a very nice setup.  Are you running balanced out of your WA22?


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> Thanks Badas!  I also considered the WA22 but the price was more than I wanted to spend right now.  Plus considering that I would go balanced into the HD800, that only jacked up the price even more.  Maybe one day......
> 
> Yes, the power tubes are the Chatham / Tung-Sol 6AS7G.  You have a good eye.  After a lot of reading (thanks to the community), My tastes and wallet settled on the Chatham 6AS7G.  I was racking my brain day in and day out on which tubes to get, I just had to finally pull the trigger on SOMETHING.  It's quite maddening actually.  LOL.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Correctamondo. Yip balanced.
  
 I hear ya on the $$'s. One of the reasons I looked at the WA2. We all have to say sorry for your wallet.
  
 You did well with the Chatham 6AS7g. A very lush holographic sounding tube. It can lean a tad bright so team it up with a nice warm mid-range driver.
  
 I was the same as you. I have a very big Home Theater and never considered headphones at all. A mate who is into headgear changed all that late last year. Now I like headphones more than my HT.
  
 My HT:
  
 http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas


----------



## devilboy

Holy cow you have A LOT of stuff!  It's obvious you're a movie buff.  Your 22 looks beautiful and you have a great theater there.  Interesting projector. 
  
 My drivers are Amperex 6dj8 '60s.  Rectifiers are Mullard EZ80 D getter. 
  
 P.S.  I love the buttkickers BTW.


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> Holy cow you have A LOT of stuff!  It's obvious you're a movie buff.  Your 22 looks beautiful and you have a great theater there.  Interesting projector.
> 
> My drivers are Amperex 6dj8 '60s.  Rectifiers are Mullard EZ80 D getter.
> 
> P.S.  I love the buttkickers BTW.


 

 Nice tubes dude.
  
 Ha. Buttkickers are fun. I have actually used them with headphones before. I can actually operate them at the same time. It was so funny listening to music and when a bass note hits the seat vibrates right through your body. A real gimick. Only did it the once. Fun but not serious or prefered.


----------



## devilboy

HAHAHA.  I would LOVE to experience that just for fun.


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> HAHAHA.  I would LOVE to experience that just for fun.


 

  
 I have to say that is a very good stand for your amp as well. No vibrations are going to happen with that solid block.
  
 What is the gear at the back?


----------



## devilboy

Thanks Badas.  That's a solid maple block from Mapleshade Audio here in the States.  What you don't see in the pic are three VERY heavy brass points that I was going to put underneath the WA2.  It's a bit of an inconvenience right now because my Metrum DAC only has one set of outputs so I have to move the interconnects to my integrated amp every time I want to listen to the loudspeakers.  I want to get a dedicated stand (rack), for the WA2 but that necessitates a longer power cord to go from my Exactpower EP 15A voltage regulator (as seen in pic).  Ugghhh.....
  
 So, in the background, left to right:
  
 Exactpower EP 15A. a statue of Sarraswati (the Hindu goddess of music, learning and culture.  I'm not Hindu I just think it's cool),  the Metrum Octave DAC, and the Mac Mini.


----------



## devilboy

Finished product might look something like this:


----------



## devilboy

Or this:


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> Thanks Badas.  That's a solid maple block from Mapleshade Audio here in the States.  What you don't see in the pic are three VERY heavy brass points that I was going to put underneath the WA2.  It's a bit of an inconvenience right now because my Metrum DAC only has one set of outputs so I have to move the interconnects to my integrated amp every time I want to listen to the loudspeakers.  I want to get a dedicated stand (rack), for the WA2 but that necessitates a longer power cord to go from my Exactpower EP 15A voltage regulator (as seen in pic).  Ugghhh.....
> 
> So, in the background, left to right:
> 
> Exactpower EP 15A. a statue of Sarraswati (the Hindu goddess of music, learning and culture.  I'm not Hindu I just think it's cool),  the Metrum Octave DAC, and the Mac Mini.


 

 Can't you split the output signal into two? I do that. One goes to the WA22 the other to the Oppo HA-1. I didn't hear any quality loss. As long as you use good quality splitters and interconnects.
  
 Your stuff looks very Zen.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Missed the WA2 yesterday.  Just got home from FedEx and--
> I...am...in...heaven.



Beautiful. That what I wanted to go for but had to wa6 as money was to tight and after tube well you know 
But love the 2 looks great.


----------



## devilboy

I thought about that but wasn't sure if I wanted to have another connector in the chain. Maybe I'll try it. I want the purest signal possible though. Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I'll just get off my butt and do it.
And lol on the zen. You know, ever since Sarraswati went in the rack the system sounded better...strangest thing.


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> I thought about that but wasn't sure if I wanted to have another connector in the chain. Maybe I'll try it. I want the purest signal possible though. Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I'll just get off my butt and do it.
> And lol on the zen. *You know, ever since Sarraswati went in the rack the system sounded better*...strangest thing.


 

  
 My little ceramic elephant makes a big sound difference as well.
  
 Going to get mushy here but it was my first gift from my now wife. Back in 1990. I love that little thing.


----------



## devilboy

Thanks 3083joe. I was on the fence about the 6 vs 2. I understand both are great. Neither is better or worse, just depends what u need. 6 if u want a faster, more immediate sound and 2 if u want warmer. I have a notoriously picky headphone in the HD800 so through the advice from experienced listeners, I went with the 2.


----------



## devilboy

LMAO Badas!!!!! I love it. The Japanese have a word for the spiritual/emotional connection people can have with inanimate objects (like audio equipment). I don't know what it is though. I've been thinking about this for many years. Inanimate objects such as audio systems gives us humans this beautiful emotional connection and makes us in contact with very deep emotional feelings. Surely there must be a connection there.


----------



## Krutsch

devilboy said:


> Finished product might look something like this:


 
  
 Nice amp and great presentation with your system.
  
 I'm a fan of Mapleshade's isolation products; I have a maple block, points and heavy-hats for my source components (see photo). I used to do exactly what you are showing with my WA3, using Mapleshade footers on a second maple block with isolators. But, when you start tube-rolling, that get annoying really fast - keeping it stable on the footers when wiggling the tubes in and out.
  
 If you are settled on a set of glass, it may not matter, but I'm rolling at least twice a week.


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Thought about the WA234, but that price just doesn't pass my sanity check.
> 
> Which 300Bs are you running in your (home) WA5? Have you tried the Takatsukis? I was drooling over the thought of Elrogs, but the recent reliability issues have had me switch my tube fantasy across to Takatsukis.


 
  
 Sticking to SERPs. I have EML meshes and they are comparable, but I slightly prefer the Sophias. If the Taks had a better support story in the US than pricejapan.com I might try them.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Thanks 3083joe. I was on the fence about the 6 vs 2. I understand both are great. Neither is better or worse, just depends what u need. 6 if u want a faster, more immediate sound and 2 if u want warmer. I have a notoriously picky headphone in the HD800 so through the advice from experienced listeners, I went with the 2.



Understand. I have hear so much good about the wa2. I will probably go that route later in the year or next year. Running 650s and 700s will be here tomorrow. Don't know that they will be good on 6 but we will see. Either way beautiful amp!


----------



## devilboy

Nice neat, organized system Krutsch.  The 3 must sound lovely.  I was thinking of removing the feet on the WA2 so I could get the points stabilized better but then thought, "I'm going too far with this".  I'll just leave it on the maple with it's stock feet.  You're right, pulling tubes in and out on those points would be a PITA.
  
 3083joe, you must be excited awaiting your 700s.  Let us know how they are!


----------



## Krutsch

devilboy said:


> Nice neat, organized system Krutsch.  The 3 must sound lovely.  *I was thinking of removing the feet on the WA2 so I could get the points stabilized better but then thought, "I'm going too far with this".  *I'll just leave it on the maple with it's stock feet.  You're right, pulling tubes in and out on those points would be a PITA.


 
  
 Ha ha... I went through the same thought process. In the end, I just threw some Vibrapods under the feet and called it a day.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Nice neat, organized system Krutsch.  The 3 must sound lovely.  I was thinking of removing the feet on the WA2 so I could get the points stabilized better but then thought, "I'm going too far with this".  I'll just leave it on the maple with it's stock feet.  You're right, pulling tubes in and out on those points would be a PITA.
> 
> 3083joe, you must be excited awaiting your 700s.  Let us know how they are!


 

 Will do,
 love the setup by the way


----------



## devilboy

3083joe said:


> Will do,
> love the setup by the way


 

 Thanks a lot!
  
 Just for fun, today I used the preamp output from the WA2 and went into my integrated (which I love).  Downside is now there are two volume pots in the chain.  Wow!  As a preamp it has a tremendous amount of air and warmth.  The original plan was to move the interconnects every time I switched from headphone to loudspeaker listening but now I don't know........


----------



## kazsud

devilboy said:


> Thanks a lot!
> 
> Just for fun, today I used the preamp output from the WA2 and went into my integrated (which I love).  Downside is now there are two volume pots in the chain.  Wow!  As a preamp it has a tremendous amount of air and warmth.  The original plan was to move the interconnects every time I switched from headphone to loudspeaker listening but now I don't know.......


 
  
  
 I controlled the volume with my Wa2 with the amp turned all the way up.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Thanks a lot!
> 
> Just for fun, today I used the preamp output from the WA2 and went into my integrated (which I love).  Downside is now there are two volume pots in the chain.  Wow!  As a preamp it has a tremendous amount of air and warmth.  The original plan was to move the interconnects every time I switched from headphone to loudspeaker listening but now I don't know........




Sweetness


----------



## 3083joe

Anyone tried these 
Mullard GZ37 cv378?
If so how are they.


----------



## Fririce0003

Will be heading over to Isquirrel's place over the weekend, after work, to have a listen to the changes he's made to his system. I'll be bringing up the vega to compare with the DaVinci, though there won't be much of a competition there.
 I think after hearing the effect of all the upgrades my system will leave me wanting, hopefully I can resist the temptation to upgrade.... I will post my findings afterwards.


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Will be heading over to Isquirrel's place over the weekend, after work, to have a listen to the changes he's made to his system. I'll be bringing up the vega to compare with the DaVinci, though there won't be much of a competition there.
> I think after hearing the effect of all the upgrades my system will leave me wanting, hopefully I can resist the temptation to upgrade.... I will post my findings afterwards.


 
  
 As a Vega owner I will be very interested in your thoughts on the Vega vs DaVinci DACs. I'm hoping that the Vega might get closer to the DaVinci than the respective price tags might suggest. The rule of diminishing returns hits pretty hard at the upper end.
  
 And be careful - exposure to ISquirrel's gear can be fatal to your wallet


----------



## isquirrel

Found this article on Sterophile re 300B's and an interesting essential read on tube burn in and the different coatings used to aid (or not) the burn in process and how that effects tube burn. Both Fririce003 and myself have noticed that our Takatsuki's are still undergoing changes at close to 500 hours. I suspect that they have gone the same route as WE and not applied a carbon oxide layer to the plates.
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/search-perfect-300b-tube-followup


----------



## isquirrel

Anyone thinking of getting into HE-1000's this month?


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> As a Vega owner I will be very interested in your thoughts on the Vega vs DaVinci DACs. I'm hoping that the Vega might get closer to the DaVinci than the respective price tags might suggest. The rule of diminishing returns hits pretty hard at the upper end.
> 
> And be careful - exposure to ISquirrel's gear can be fatal to your wallet :wink_face:


 

Hearing his system the first time already prompted a few upgrades to mind.... Wallets taken a hit since then, think this time it'll start eating into the oddest account :S
 The Vega is a good DAC, but te DaVinci is another league, smooth, musical, lush. But an amazing amount of detail and space, whilst still retaining intimacy. Haven't heard it in a while but with the source and usb upgrades and how transparent the DaVinci is I know I'll be impressed.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Hearing his system the first time already prompted a few upgrades to mind.... Wallets taken a hit since then, think this time it'll start eating into the oddest account :S
> The Vega is a good DAC, but te DaVinci is another league, smooth, musical, lush. But an amazing amount of detail and space, whilst still retaining intimacy. Haven't heard it in a while but with the source and usb upgrades and how transparent the DaVinci is I know I'll be impressed.


 

 Last time you heard if I recall the Tak's had zero time on them and the Shunyata gear was same. DaVinci has been considerably fettled since then. Also source was a MacBook with A+. Everything has changed since then.
  
 I am really looking forward to hearing the Vega. The Computer Audio Design 1543 DAC is arriving next week, which is supposed to be a giant killer and at a reasonable price, while the DaVinci goes back to LH for its upgrades.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Last time you heard if I recall the Tak's had zero time on them and the Shunyata gear was same. DaVinci has been considerably fettled since then. Also source was a MacBook with A+. Everything has changed since then.
> 
> I am really looking forward to hearing the Vega. The Computer Audio Design 1543 DAC is arriving next week, which is supposed to be a giant killer and at a reasonable price, while the DaVinci goes back to LH for its upgrades.




 That's correct, Shunyata still fresh and the Takatsuki just out of the box. Was already inspiring, can't imagine how the DaVinci will sound after it gets back. Scary to think they can improve it further!


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> That's correct, Shunyata still fresh and the Takatsuki just out of the box. Was already inspiring, can't imagine how the DaVinci will sound after it gets back. Scary to think they can improve it further!


 

 Reading the specs its quite a frightening prospect - six Femto clocks and USB regen pure R2R ladder and finally native DSD to 256 though personally don't use DSD much.Jitter down to 35s an improvement of 92% over the MK1. They have stuck with NOS. The other aspect that has me intrigued is no capacitor anywhere in the signal path. Also using 4 x C3G's in the output section. Must have been reading Glenn's inbox


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> Anyone thinking of getting into HE-1000's this month?


 
  
 I need some open cans and am probably going for an LCD-3. I'm not feeling the HE1K for a grand more, and also there are build quality concerns talked about in its thread. I've had my LCD-XCs for a while now and they are absolutely bomb-proof. I also was not a huge fan of the HE-6 that I rented for a while. Having said that, I am looking forward to hearing them at the SF meet in July.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> I need some open cans and am probably going for an LCD-3. I'm not feeling the HE1K for a grand more, and also there are build quality concerns talked about in its thread. I've had my LCD-XCs for a while now and they are absolutely bomb-proof. I also was not a huge fan of the HE-6 that I rented for a while. Having said that, I am looking forward to hearing them at the SF meet in July.


 

 I am concerned about build quality as well, there also seems to a wide variance in sound between individual headphones that both users and other industry insiders are reporting. That's not good at any price.
  
 I am selling my LCD-X and 3F as new condition if anyone's interested. haven't used them since the Abyss showed up.


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> I am concerned about build quality as well, there also seems to a wide variance in sound between individual headphones that both users and other industry insiders are reporting. That's not good at any price.
> 
> I am selling my LCD-X and 3F as new condition if anyone's interested. haven't used them since the Abyss showed up.


 
  
 The Abyss... yeah. I heard them last year and they sounded super indeed (but not $5500 super). The bigger issue though is that you look like this with them on:


----------



## isquirrel

Yes well there is that, TBH I avoided them for a long time, based on looks and the weird fit, and compared to any other headphone they are strange for the 1st week or so. Having said that when I eventually overcame my prejudice I discovered I had been dead wrong. Now other headphones feel very contrastive and the sound well there is no other headphone I have heard that comes close. But that's subjective and I understand they are not to everyone taste.
  
 They did take quite some time for me to grow into them. Now I absolutely love them.
  
 Apparently the HE-1000 is shipping now, the main reason I am interested is comfort factor when working on the computer plus a different sound altogether from the Abyss.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> Anyone thinking of getting into HE-1000's this month?


 
 I already have them and really like them!


----------



## Jeb Listens

krutsch said:


> Nice amp and great presentation with your system.
> 
> I'm a fan of Mapleshade's isolation products; I have a maple block, points and heavy-hats for my source components (see photo). I used to do exactly what you are showing with my WA3, using Mapleshade footers on a second maple block with isolators. But, when you start tube-rolling, that get annoying really fast - keeping it stable on the footers when wiggling the tubes in and out.
> 
> If you are settled on a set of glass, it may not matter, but I'm rolling at least twice a week.


 
  
  
 +1 on the Mapleshade love.  Using their speaker stands for my surround speakers.
  
  

  
  
 To get back on topic.....+1 on the Woo love.


----------



## devilboy

Nice pics Jeb.  I've been a fan of Mapleshade for a long time. 
  
 There was just something about the way the sun hit the 2 this morning.  Yes, that's corny but I don't care.  LOL.


----------



## Jeb Listens

devilboy said:


> _There was just something about the way the sun hit the 2 this morning.  _


 
  
 If you ever wanted to write a novel - there's your opening line. 
  
 Looking very nice indeed - clean and natural.  Aluminium, tubes and a big slab of wood.  The audiophile holy trinity. 
  
  
 Happy listening


----------



## devilboy

jeb listens said:


> If you ever wanted to write a novel - there's your opening line.
> 
> Looking very nice indeed - clean and natural.  Aluminium, tubes and a big slab of wood.  The audiophile holy trinity.
> 
> ...


 

 I Can't stop laughing at that. 
  
 "The audiophile holy trinity"..........how right you are!


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Nice pics Jeb.  I've been a fan of Mapleshade for a long time.
> 
> There was just something about the way the sun hit the 2 this morning.  Yes, that's corny but I don't care.  LOL.



Beautiful.


----------



## devilboy

Jeb Listens, what Woo is that in the pic? 
  
  


3083joe said:


> Beautiful.


 

 Thank you 3083joe.


----------



## devilboy

I'm sorry guys.  This is the last one, I promise.   It's just that I'm thrilled with this amp.  I know there is better out there, but right now I'm having so much fun with this and I'm really content with the decision I've made.  Besides the sound, I'm so impressed with the build quality of Woo gear.  I've had much more expensive amps (ss and tube), that don't have the build quality of this Woo.  I've had amps that when I push the tube in, the socket dips down into the chassis.  When I put a tube in the Woo, the socket doesn't give AT ALL.   The input selector is so solid when changing inputs and the volume pot is silky smooth.   It's built like a tank and it's amazing that it's available at this price point.


----------



## Jeb Listens

No need to be sorry: I can't imagine anyone will object to such eye-candy!
  
  


devilboy said:


> Jeb Listens, what Woo is that in the pic?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you 3083joe.


 
  

 It's the WA7 Fireflies (left) and the WA7tp power supply (right).    Rega DAC on the end.


----------



## Badas

The last two pics are some of the best Woo pics I have seen.

Great pics guys.


----------



## 3083joe

jeb listens said:


> No need to be sorry: I can't imagine anyone will object to such eye-candy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good looking AMP/DAC tho
 Rega is the cd transport I am looking at, how you like it?


----------



## devilboy

Sweet setup Jeb.  I know sound quality is first, but Woo makes some damn fine looking stuff.


----------



## Jeb Listens

3083joe said:


> Good looking AMP/DAC tho
> Rega is the cd transport I am looking at, how you like it?


 
  
 It's fantastic -  - I'm mainly using it as the front end of my 2 Channel speaker set-up into Rega RS1 bookshelf speakers.  From what I have read the Rega Apollo-R CD + Rega DAC combo has something of a legendary status, especially amongst those that transitioned from Vinyl. If i still used CDs that'd be the route I'd probably go too! 
  
 When I used the DAC with the WA7 it was very enjoyable.  The Rega is very natural sounding, engaging, with super dynamics and without one single hint of digitalis, brightness or grain. This is good because I'm allergic to all those things.  I would say the sound is warm and immerses you in the music rather than offering a particularly expansive sound.  It's emphasis is on being pleasurable through rhythm & timing rather than resolving lots of details.  I would probably liken the sound to a great Euro NOS tube like a Mullard, for example.  Maybe not for those that want the ultimate in clarity & transparency.
  
 I felt it was very complimentary to the Woo's inherent musicality as well as adding a little more meat to the sound & removing that slight thinness/edge that the WA7 onboard DAC occasionally has.


----------



## 3083joe

jeb listens said:


> It's fantastic -  - I'm mainly using it as the front end of my 2 Channel speaker set-up into Rega RS1 bookshelf speakers.  From what I have read the Rega Apollo-R CD + Rega DAC combo has something of a legendary status, especially amongst those that transitioned from Vinyl. If i still used CDs that'd be the route I'd probably go too!
> 
> When I used the DAC with the WA7 it was very enjoyable.  The Rega is very natural sounding, engaging, with super dynamics and without one single hint of digitalis, brightness or grain. This is good because I'm allergic to all those things.  I would say the sound is warm and immerses you in the music rather than offering a particularly expansive sound.  It's emphasis is on being pleasurable through rhythm & timing rather than resolving lots of details.  I would probably liken the sound to a great Euro NOS tube like a Mullard, for example.  Maybe not for those that want the ultimate in clarity & transparency.
> 
> I felt it was very complimentary to the Woo's inherent musicality as well as adding a little more meat to the sound & removing that slight thinness/edge that the WA7 onboard DAC occasionally has.


 
 Nice, Sweet Set up
 I use lots of digital but have lots of CDS, vinyl too, but to hard to deal with have 4 kids under 8. 
 I have a fiio x3ii that i use as desktop player  but want to use a cd transport aswell with my MHDT Paradise Dac and Wa6. just not sure what to purchase as i only need readablity not Conversion.


----------



## Jeb Listens

3083joe said:


> Nice, Sweet Set up
> I use lots of digital but have lots of CDS, vinyl too, but to hard to deal with have 4 kids under 8.
> I have a fiio x3ii that i use as desktop player  but want to use a cd transport aswell with my MHDT Paradise Dac and Wa6. just not sure what to purchase as i only need readablity not Conversion.


 

 Cool yep I understand.  4 Children wow.  Woo time is precious then.
  
 Dedicated CD transports are quite niche now and expensive aren't they.  One I looked at briefly that was well regarded was the Little Dot CDP-II.   Apart from that there's CD Transports by Cyrus, Musical Fidelity & Audiolab but they are all pretty expensive .  
  
 Not something I have much experience with so if you want transport only I'm not sure the relative gain in sound quality vs just using any old CD/Blu-ray/DVD player that has a digital out to your DAC. 
  
 Of course Woo used to make an absolutely beautiful looking CD transport.  I don't think they make it anymore but you can still get them in the classifieds depending on your budget if you want to keep it all Woo.


----------



## Krutsch

jeb listens said:


> It's fantastic -  ...
> 
> The Rega is very natural sounding, engaging, with super dynamics and without one single hint of digitalis, brightness or grain. This is good because I'm allergic to all those things.  I would say the sound is warm and immerses you in the music rather than offering a particularly expansive sound.  It's emphasis is on being pleasurable through rhythm & timing rather than resolving lots of details.  I would probably liken the sound to a great Euro NOS tube like a Mullard, for example.  Maybe not for those that want the ultimate in clarity & transparency.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Perfect description of the Rega DAC - I'll never part with mine. Sonically, I think it pairs really well with my Woo amp.


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Perfect description of the Rega DAC - I'll never part with mine. Sonically, I think it pairs really well with my Woo amp.


 

 Hopefully i can purchase one soon
 but the MHDT Paradise is working well for now


----------



## 3083joe

jeb listens said:


> Cool yep I understand.  4 Children wow.  Woo time is precious then.
> 
> Dedicated CD transports are quite niche now and expensive aren't they.  One I looked at briefly that was well regarded was the Little Dot CDP-II.   Apart from that there's CD Transports by Cyrus, Musical Fidelity & Audiolab but they are all pretty expensive .
> 
> ...


 

 Very sweet
 Might just use a regular cd player and digital out. no need to speed lots


----------



## Badas

Highly recommended album guys. Made for the Woo. Purely amazing.


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Highly recommended album guys. Made for the Woo. Purely amazing.




Couldn't agree more. I have the 24bit version from HDtracks. Really sounds good.


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> Perfect description of the Rega DAC - I'll never part with mine. Sonically, I think it pairs really well with my Woo amp.


Ain't love grand.*


3083joe said:



			Hopefully i can purchase one soon
but the MHDT Paradise is working well for now
		
Click to expand...

*The search begins for a good used Rega DAC. Actually I'd like to audition both the Rega and the Chord 2Qute side by side, just for ****s and giggles sake you know.


----------



## Krutsch

bpcans said:


> Ain't love grand.
> The search begins for a good used Rega DAC. Actually I'd like to audition both the Rega and the Chord 2Qute side by side, just for ****s and giggles sake you know.


 
  
 You should be able to do that with Audio Perfection in Richfield. They carry Chord and Rega and I suspect they would let you bring in your laptop and your WA6 and have at it.
  
 The problem with a used Rega is you really want the new model (DAC-R), because they've updated the USB receiver chipset to modern standards (async, 192/24); with the original version, you will need a USB-to-S/PDIF converter for higher sample rates, if you are into that sort of thing. Personally, I think that's a better solution, electrically, but it costs more and it's an extra box.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Highly recommended album guys. Made for the Woo. Purely amazing.


 

 Picking it now
 Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> Ain't love grand.
> The search begins for a good used Rega DAC. Actually I'd like to audition both the Rega and the Chord 2Qute side by side, just for ****s and giggles sake you know.


 

 Let us know your thoughts if you get a chance


----------



## masmole

badas said:


> Highly recommended album guys. Made for the Woo. Purely amazing.


 

 Nice!  I've listened to this via Spotify and it sounds fantastic despite the Ogg Vorbis compression.
  
 Perhaps I'll go buy the high-res version from HD Tracks... but I wonder why it's only available in 44.1/24 versus the 96/24 I normally see of her other albums.


----------



## joseph69

krutsch said:


> The problem with a used Rega is you really want the new model (DAC-R), because they've updated the USB receiver chipset to modern standards (async, 192/24);* with the original version, you will need a USB-to-S/PDIF converter for higher sample rates, if you are into that sort of thing. *Personally, I think that's a better solution, electrically, but it costs more and it's an extra box.


 
 Why would you need a USB>SPDIF converter when you can just use the optical input like I do?


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Why would you need a USB>SPDIF converter when you can just use the optical input like I do?


 

 I was thinking the same thing. I don't use USB so I thought I could just use the older model.


----------



## Krutsch

joseph69 said:


> Why would you need a USB>SPDIF converter when you can just use the optical input like I do?


 
  
 You can and I do (see my signature) - I use the BNC coax digital out from my Bryston BDP-1 directly into the Rega - sounds amazing.
  


badas said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I don't use USB so I thought I could just use the older model.


 
  
 I just happen to know @bpcans from local meets and I know he uses a MacBook for playback, into a DragonFly, into a Woo WA6. That's why I was commenting on the USB input. For TOSLINK or coax, you don't need anything else.
  
 Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I don't use USB so I thought I could just use the older model.


 
  Me either, I use the optical input.
  
 Quote:


krutsch said:


> You can and I do (see my signature) - I use the BNC coax digital out from my Bryston BDP-1 directly into the Rega - sounds amazing.
> I just happen to know @bpcans from local meets and I know he uses a MacBook for playback, into a DragonFly, into a Woo WA6. That's why I was commenting on the USB input. For TOSLINK or coax, you don't need anything else.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.


 
 Its all good, I was just a bit confused.


----------



## devilboy

I've had the pleasure of seeing Melody live three times in Philly.  She is truly a gift!


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> I've had the pleasure of seeing Melody live three times in Philly.  She is truly a gift!


 

 I've been very luke warm on her previous albums. This one has grabbed my attention tho.


----------



## Fririce0003

Coming back to my system after listening to Isquirrel's is always difficult, not only are the Spore4 headphone cables a big improvement, but bigger still is the difference between the Vega and DaVinci... The Vega isn't bad for the price but it's easily outclassed in every area, soundstage, transparency, detail retrieval, musicality, control and enjoyment. The Vega just can't cut it against that, by comparison it sounds harsh and bright, musicality is gone and the sound is etched and thin. Oh and the bass, that's one thing the Davinci certainly does right! Quantity is upped, but it's so taut, controlled and fast. An excellent pairing with the Abyss.
   The CAT is no slouch either, more controlled, transparent and exacting than the DX, maybe not as rich in sound but certainly a wider presentation. In a no compromises system it would easily be the CAT over the DX. Though in a brighter or thinner system the DX could help bring in a little bit warmth.
   Looks like it won't just be my wallet that'll be hurting, my offset account may well join it... It's hard going back to my system indeed.


----------



## zeroduke

Very nice, indeed! Congratulations.


----------



## zeroduke

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I took it to a custom car painting shop and paid $500.00 for the paint job.
> Totally kidding…All the workmanship credit goes to my father. All I did was come up with the idea, paint it and apply it too the amp. I went to Home Depot and bought a plank of Oak and Martha Stewarts (Barn Red) paint, then wiped it on the oak with my two fingers then immediately wiped it off with a cotton T-shirt and repeated this until the Oak absorbed the paint too my liking, then let it dry (about 10-minutes) then applied it too the amp with silicon. The total cost was under $12.00.


 

 Very nice, indeed!.  Congratulations.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I've been very luke warm on her previous albums. This one has grabbed my attention tho.



Just discovering her. Wow. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## joseph69

zeroduke said:


> Very nice, indeed!.  Congratulations.


 
 Thank you very much!


----------



## Krutsch

fririce0003 said:


> The CAT is no slouch either, more controlled, transparent and exacting than the DX, maybe not as rich in sound but certainly a wider presentation.* In a no compromises system it would easily be the CAT over the DX.* Though in a brighter or thinner system the DX could help bring in a little bit warmth.


 
  
 OT, but... The CAD CAT looks like a very intriguing product: a customized motherboard, attention to power and isolation details, as well as an optimized Windows platform for audio playback. The industrial design looks elegant.
  
 A really great choice of using embedded Windows, because then CAD are able to embed JRiver MC, instead of relying on Linux open source software like MPD, GMediaRenderer, mPlayer, et al., which has pros and cons for user experience and sound quality (e.g. MPD is absolutely fantastic for SQ, but the apps available are weak, requiring vendors to build their own apps or internal playback control software which is expensive and will always be dragging behind).
  
 The approach that Linn took was a good one, developing their own custom software based on uPnP and Open Home Networking (ohnet), but I can only imagine what they've spent on R&D - their prices reflect as much - although Linn Kazoo coupled with MinimServer is best in class for library browsing and playback.
  
 It's amazing how much choice there is now for digital audio... if you are willing to dilate your wallet


----------



## isquirrel

@ Krutsch
  
 The CAD CAT is an amazing piece of kit. The engineering is superb. Separate SSD drives for music and the OS. Proper shielding on all components and custom SATA and other MB connectors. Really good attention to detail.
  
 I initially hated JPlay as it only supports WAV so having to re tag all my Aiff files was a PITA, however I have mine running using JRiver as a DNLA server and I use Kinsky as the Control Point from my iPad. I have developed for the Windows platform and know my way around the services, Scott Berry has managed to reduce the OS footprint to less than 30 services on Win 8.1 and only 700mb/ram. I am going to try Minimum server as well as Roon.
  
 Matt and I played around with JPlay and I think that is where the SQ is really coming from. Fine tuning of the JPlay settings can subtly alter the system balance and presentation. I have mine setup so it is less in you face with detail but far more musical.
  
 There is no doubt that a decent Music Sever now significantly outperforms any CD Transport.
  
 My wish list is for JPlay to support Aiff files and produce their own server software.


----------



## musicman2006

Regarding the WA3, does anyone have an issue where a driver/preamp tube like the a 6992/6dj8 would hum in a Woo amp but no in any other amp ?
 For example, I am currently auditiong a Valhalla2 along with he WA3. I would put the exact same two preamp tubes from the Valhalla2 which had no hum issues, in to the WA3 and then ONE of the tubes would exhibit hum with its respective channel, as if the source of the hum came from the tube.
  
 I have no idea why this hum would be apparent on the WA3 and not the Valhalla and its driving me crazy lol but the stock Phillips JAN 6992 do not hum in either one.


----------



## Badas

musicman2006 said:


> Regarding the WA3, does anyone have an issue where a driver/preamp tube like the a 6992/6dj8 would hum in a Woo amp but no in any other amp ?
> For example, I am currently auditiong a Valhalla2 along with he WA3. I would put the exact same two preamp tubes from the Valhalla2 which had no hum issues, in to the WA3 and then ONE of the tubes would exhibit hum with its respective channel, as if the source of the hum came from the tube.
> 
> I have no idea why this hum would be apparent on the WA3 and not the Valhalla and its driving me crazy lol but the stock Phillips JAN 6992 do not hum in either one.


 

 Yeah. You get that. I get it with 6080 power tubes in the WA22. I kinda just move onto another brand of tube.


----------



## musicman2006

Hopefully I wont have to ditch an entire brand. I had a drawer full of russian 6N23P (which I personally really like) for the preamp and 6 out of 8 of those displayed a loud or soft hum for their individual channels. So it seem to be tube dependant, not brand dependant.
  
 I also ordered a couple RCA power tubes for a decent price just to see what the difference will be. They will be here soon.


----------



## Badas

musicman2006 said:


> Hopefully I wont have to ditch an entire brand. I had a drawer full of russian 6N23P (which I personally really like) for the preamp and 6 out of 8 of those displayed a loud or soft hum for their individual channels. So it seem to be tube dependant, not brand dependant.
> 
> I also ordered a couple RCA power tubes for a decent price just to see what the difference will be. They will be here soon.


 

 The Russian's don't flare well with Woo products. I have the Russian 6N13 (6AS7G) power tube (3 sets). They are noisy in the WA22. However very quiet in the WA2.
  
 Some tubes just don't like certain circuits.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> There is no doubt that a decent Music Sever now significantly outperforms any CD Transport.
> 
> My wish list is for JPlay to support Aiff files and produce their own server software.


 
  
 Agreed. Unfortunately, for most folks, it has to be heard to be believed. I would go further and add: "...than any laptop/MacBook..." as well.
  


> My wish list is for JPlay to support Aiff files and produce their own server software.


 
  
 Have you seen the note from JRiver about JPlay? And, do try MinimServer... it's a thing of beauty when you take the time to customize the library presentation.
  
 Unfortunately for my system, which uses GMediaRenderer for uPnP playback, as opposed to MPD for USB/NAS storage, the SQ falls short with DLNA.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> The Russian's don't flare well with Woo products. I have the *Russian 6N13 (6AS7G) power tube* (3 sets). They are noisy in the WA22. However very quiet in the WA2.
> 
> Some tubes just don't like certain circuits.


 
  
 I have three of these tubes for my WA3; no microphonics or hum whatsoever, but flat and lifeless sound (at least, so far ... I haven't really given them much of a chance, I'll admit).


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I have three of these tubes for my WA3; no microphonics or hum whatsoever, but flat and lifeless sound (at least, so far ... I haven't really given them much of a chance, I'll admit).


 

 They don't have a bad sound signature but I know what you mean. If you want a holographic 6AS7G then try the Chatham / Tung-Sol 6AS7G (without the steel flap down the bottom) or the Tung-Sol 6520. Extremely good instrument separation.
  
 At the moment I am sold on the Mullard 6080. Not as holographic as above but better in other areas.


----------



## Krutsch

musicman2006 said:


> Regarding the WA3, does anyone have an issue where a driver/preamp tube like the a 6992/6dj8 would hum in a Woo amp but no in any other amp ?
> For example, I am currently auditiong a Valhalla2 along with he WA3. I would put the exact same two preamp tubes from the Valhalla2 which had no hum issues, in to the WA3 and then ONE of the tubes would exhibit hum with its respective channel, as if the source of the hum came from the tube.
> 
> I have no idea why this hum would be apparent on the WA3 and not the Valhalla and its driving me crazy lol but the stock Phillips JAN 6992 do not hum in either one.


 
  
 With tubes, I've decided to endure some level of sound artifacting; I am not willing to just trash my less than perfect tubes. I've been lucky, in that a have very few tubes with sound artifacts (microphonics or hum).
  
 I have two sets of the Siemens CCa driver tubes for my WA3 - one of the four tubes exhibits a low hum and I can move it to the other side and the hum moves with it (if I recall correctly). So, I think the tube might be bad in my case, not necessarily all tubes of that brand or batch are bad. But the CCa tubes were expensive and I just turn up the volume a little more and, surprise, I can't hear the hum (except for quiet passages).
  
 If I am listening to quiet classical, for example, I roll-in tubes I've noted for detail and imaging, as well as being quiet. I also have a Western Electric 421a that will sometimes make little rattling/microphonics noises after it's been running for a while. I tap it with my fingernail and it stops. I have four others of the same tube, that all sound clean; but I don't want to trash the bad one, because it still crushes any other brand of power tube I own.
 Great is the Enemy of Good!


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> They don't have a bad sound signature but I know what you mean. If you want a holographic* 6AS7G then try the Chatham / Tung-Sol 6AS7G (without the steel flap down the bottom)* or the* Tung-Sol 6520*. Extremely good instrument separation.
> 
> At the moment I am sold on the Mullard 6080. Not as holographic as above but better in other areas.


 
  
 You mean like one of these (listening to it now - see photo). I agree on the TS 6520 - a very underrated tube; I have a collection of 'em.


----------



## musicman2006

krutsch said:


> I have three of these tubes for my WA3; no microphonics or hum whatsoever, but flat and lifeless sound (at least, so far ... I haven't really given them much of a chance, I'll admit).


 
 Oh man, Im sorry to hear that. My 6N23P tubes are the rocket Voshod label variety and happen to have a better holographic sound than my bugle boys.


----------



## Krutsch

musicman2006 said:


> Oh man, Im sorry to hear that. My *6N23P tubes are the rocket Voshod label variety* and happen to have a better holographic sound than my bugle boys.


 
  
 I have some of those, as well; I think we were talking about 6AS7G power tubes, with respect to my lifeless comment ... but never mind.
  
 Enjoy those Russian drivers!


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> You mean like one of these (listening to it now - see photo). I agree on the TS 6520 - a very underrated tube; I have a collection of 'em.


 
 Yeah. That's the sucker. I have 3 sets. Not so many.
  
 Interesting yours has the metal flap on the bottom. Mine don't.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Yeah. That's the sucker. I have 3 sets. Not so many.
> 
> Interesting yours has the* metal flap on the bottom. Mine don't.*


 
  
 The metal flaps are 'C'-shaped, exactly like the target plates above the top mica. I hadn't listened to these tubes before this morning and I *really *like their sound. I have a ways to go before I can say I have a lifetime's supply of tubes, but I'm working on the collection; I've even started collecting rectifiers for the next-up WA2.


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> The metal flaps are 'C'-shaped, exactly like the target plates above the top mica. I hadn't listened to these tubes before this morning and I *really* like their sound. I have a ways to go before I can say I have a lifetime's supply of tubes, but I'm working on the collection; I've even started collecting rectifiers for the next-up WA2.



Wow. Nice.


----------



## 3083joe

I have to say the Sofia isn't that great. By weekend hope to have the 596s. Maybe tomorrow or thurs


----------



## mikoss

Thank you all for making me feel so much better about my tube obsession. Now if someone could help me with my Yggy obsession...


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> I have to say the Sofia isn't that great. By weekend hope to have the 596s. Maybe tomorrow or thurs


 
  
 I've heard that from many owners glad I never got one, there too spendy also..


----------



## Krutsch

mikoss said:


> Thank you all for making me feel so much better about my tube obsession. *Now if someone could help me with my Yggy obsession...*


 
  
 You are killing me with that Schiit... I really want to hear one, from what I've read, but I'm afraid.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> I have to say the Sofia isn't that great. By weekend hope to have the 596s. Maybe tomorrow or thurs


 
 When you pair the Sophia Princess with a brighter sounding drive/power tube, you get a very full and rich sound…and this is coming from someone who owns the NU-596/Brimar 5Z4G which are both very good sounding tube, so it comes down to mixing.matching rectifier and drive/power tubes to achieve different sound signatures for your musical tastes, which is why we roll tubes. 
 So, I wouldn't say the SP isn't a great rectifier tube at all…just different with the correct matching.


----------



## devilboy

badas said:


> The Russian's don't flare well with Woo products. I have the Russian 6N13 (6AS7G) power tube (3 sets). They are noisy in the WA22. However very quiet in the WA2.
> 
> Some tubes just don't like certain circuits.




Funny you say that Badas. I put Amperex 6dj8 in my WA2 last week and the first couple days I had no problem. Then I saw the right channel 6dj8 glow purple and the right channel went out. Andy says it was a.slight leak. Right before that I used the WA2 as a preamp in my loudspeaker system (which sounded awesome). I'm wondering if there was a relation because I read online that some driver tubes should not be used as preamp tubes in preamplifiers. Any experience with this situation?


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> When you pair the Sophia Princess with a brighter sounding drive/power tube, you get a very full and rich sound…and this is coming from someone who owns the NU-596/Brimar 5Z4G which are both very good sounding tube, so it comes down to mixing.matching rectifier and drive/power tubes to achieve different sound signatures for your musical tastes, which is why we roll tubes.
> So, I wouldn't say the SP isn't a great rectifier tube at all…just different with the correct matching.



Fair enough. I'll give it I try with differnet drives and see what I get. 
Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Fair enough. I'll give it I try with differnet drives and see what I get.
> Thanks.


 
 Your welcome.
 For sure…try it out with different tubes/ music Genre's and you may find it can be a very enjoyable tube.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Your welcome.
> For sure…try it out with different tubes/ music Genre's and you may find it can be a very enjoyable tube.


 

 Have been enjoying this rectifier Chatham 5R4WGA


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > Your welcome.
> ...


 

 Got a few variants of this tube ,Cetron ,Chatham, and Raytheon for the price they sound good


----------



## MIKELAP

Was checking out 6F8G tubes and looks like its also  possible to use 6c8g tubes and since this tube is similar to a 6SL7 it can also be used trying 6SL7 it in my WA 6 sounds gould but its not on WOO compatible tube list anybody knows about this .


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> Got a few variants of this tube ,Cetron ,Chatham, and Raytheon for the price they sound good


 

 Yes the bottom one with my  6SN7GTs in nice with hd700 seem to product a stronger tight bass!


----------



## 3083joe

Any good 7n7 tubes?


----------



## JamesBr

3083joe said:


> Have been enjoying this rectifier Chatham 5R4WGA


 
  
 The price for the tubes just suck tho


----------



## Krutsch

mikelap said:


>


 
  
 Wow... check out that logo! I am having flashbacks to Space:1999


----------



## MIKELAP

jamesbr said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Have been enjoying this rectifier Chatham 5R4WGA
> ...


 
 $8.00 each in my book is very good, maybe you got them mixed up with another type .


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Any good 7n7 tubes?


 
  
 All the examples I have seen are Sylvanias with rectangular plates - a tube I don't like at all.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Have been enjoying this rectifier Chatham 5R4WGA


 
 Cool, I haven't had the chance too hear this tube.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Was checking out 6F8G tubes and looks like its also  possible to use 6c8g tubes and since this tube is similar to a 6SL7 it can also be used trying 6SL7 it in my WA 6 sounds gould but its not on WOO compatible tube list anybody knows about this .


 

 Check out my answer in the 6SN7 thread.


----------



## magiccabbage

For anyone interested ,,, 
  
http://headphone.guru/woo-audio-wa5-will-it-woo-you-too/


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> For anyone interested ,,,
> 
> http://headphone.guru/woo-audio-wa5-will-it-woo-you-too/


----------



## isquirrel

I have decided to take the plunge with some HE-1000's, Australian stock should be here in the next week or so. I am going to try them with the DHC cable and give them plenty of burn in. At least they bridge the gap between the Audeze's and the Abyss and will definatly be more comfortable.
  
 Anyone else getting them?


----------



## Stereolab42

magiccabbage said:


> For anyone interested ,,,
> 
> http://headphone.guru/woo-audio-wa5-will-it-woo-you-too/


 
  
 Once you go 300B you never go back.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Once you go 300B you never go back.


 

 Arrrrrrgggghhhh! Don't say that. I don't want to upgrade.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Once you go 300B you never go back.


 
  
 Only downside is the price. Top end 300Bs are crazy expensive (Taks / Elrogs / SERPs).
  
 Won't even mention vintage WE300Bs. Selling all your body parts only gets you a deposit on those things.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Only downside is the price. Top end 300Bs are crazy expensive (Taks / Elrogs / SERPs).
> 
> Won't even mention vintage WE300Bs. Selling all your body parts only gets you a deposit on those things.


 
 true that


----------



## abvolt

That was one of my main reasons for me not getting the wa5le and settling for the wa22 tube prices are way out of range on 300b amps in my opinion..


----------



## Krutsch

I wish I could listen to one, side-by-side with something lower-end. None of the meets I've been to present anything like a WA5; I'm probably lucky that way.
  
 Maybe instead of sending my kid to college...


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I wish I could listen to one, side-by-side with something lower-end. None of the meets I've been to present anything like a WA5; I'm probably lucky that way.
> 
> Maybe instead of sending my kid to college...


 

 Tony and I are going to do the New Zealand meet. So there will be a meet with the WA22 and WA5 side by side.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony and I are going to do the New Zealand meet. So there will be a meet with the WA22 and WA5 side by side.


 
  
 MIght be the Glenn amp rather than the WA5 - whichever is the better performer. Humping 2 huge 300B tube amps is a bit much - so will take one or the other. Very likely to be Glenn amp (+ Vega + 430HA).


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> MIght be the Glenn amp rather than the WA5 - whichever is the better performer. Humping 2 huge 300B tube amps is a bit much - so will take one or the other. Very likely to be Glenn amp (+ Vega + 430HA).


 

 Even better.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Even better.


 
  
 Probably with Takatsuki 300Bs, Telefunken or Mullard 42EC4 rectifiers and Telefunken or Lorenz C3G drivers.
  
 This thing is going to ROCK!!!


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Probably with Takatsuki 300Bs, Telefunken or Mullard 42EC4 rectifiers and Telefunken or Lorenz C3G drivers.
> 
> This thing is going to ROCK!!!



Can we see a pic of Glenn's amp? 
Tia.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Can we see a pic of Glenn's amp?
> Tia.


 

 It's beautiful. I have some pics but I will let Tony post them. It will be his baby.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Can we see a pic of Glenn's amp?
> Tia.


 
  
 These are Glenn's pics. I hope to take delivery in a month or two.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> These are Glenn's pics. I hope to take delivery in a month or two.


 
 i would love to hear it - looks amazing


----------



## bumblebeezack

As per TonyNewman 's recommendation for an affordable rectifier, I've actually purchased the Brimar 5Z4G from Langrex like 2 days ago. 

As some have mentioned, Langrex does not actually give an email confirmation that they have received the order or anything at all. All I have is the email confirmation from PayPal. 

Normally I wouldn't buy from such companies that have poor communication practices. But I trust the Head-fi-ers that I can trust Langrex. 

Here's waiting for my virgin tube rolling experience! If my lo-fi ears can discern a difference, then maybe the 6NS7 is next.


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> As per @TonyNewman 's recommendation for an affordable rectifier, I've actually purchased the Brimar 5Z4G from Langrex like 2 days ago.
> 
> As some have mentioned, Langrex does not actually give an email confirmation that they have received the order or anything at all. All I have is the email confirmation from PayPal.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have bought tubes from Langrex about half a dozen times - always had a good experience with them.


----------



## bumblebeezack

tonynewman said:


> I have bought tubes from Langrex about half a dozen times - always had a good experience with them.




Yeah. You did share that before. So I was basing my purchase of that. But I'm sure Langrex is cool. It's all about British honor and all that I guess  Living in a country that was a previous British colony, I get that.


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Yeah. You did share that before. So I was basing my purchase of that. But I'm sure Langrex is cool. It's all about British honor and all that I guess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just placed an order for 10 rectifiers with them. James from Langrex made a PayPal invoice for my order after an email exchange to confirm price with postage. Was very easy and James is great to deal with.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Just placed an order for 10 rectifiers with them. James from Langrex made a PayPal invoice for my order after an email exchange to confirm price with postage. Was very easy and James is great to deal with.




Same situation with me. I just purchased a test lot of four Mullard 6080 power tubes. Once again dealing with James. Langrex is one company you never get problems with. Purchased many times.


----------



## whirlwind

badas said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Just placed an order for 10 rectifiers with them. James from Langrex made a PayPal invoice for my order after an email exchange to confirm price with postage. Was very easy and James is great to deal with.
> ...


 
 +1
  
 I used them also....great service....even had a 25SN7 that I was looking for.....James was very helpful.


----------



## bumblebeezack

That's all very nice to hear. I guess I am in safe hands.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> These are Glenn's pics. I hope to take delivery in a month or two.



Beautiful.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Beautiful.


 
  
 The looks remind me of switchgear from the 30s, 40s and 50s era for those that know what that looks like. Very retro - I like that.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> Once you go 300B you never go back.


 

 True but only at the Takatsuki, WE level, the 45's I have are better than the Elrog's especially in the bass area.


----------



## Khragon

I thought Elrog bass is good enough, a bit less impact compared SERP, but Elrog made up for the smooth and musical mid-range and treble is nicely rendered.  Too bad the thing can't work more than a month.  Out 2 months now for exchange.  I really hope Elrog redesign the tube to perfection before releasing it at this point.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> I thought Elrog bass is good enough, a bit less impact compared SERP, but Elrog made up for the smooth and musical mid-range and treble is nicely rendered.  Too bad the thing can't work more than a month.  Out 2 months now for exchange.  I really hope Elrog redesign the tube to perfection before releasing it at this point.


 

 Me too, I have a brand new pair unopened that I will return. The tube has such promise although I was surprised that the bass was a weak point. Maybe it s different using speakers. I found them bass weak unsells paired with either a Briar or the Takatsuki 274B - that really transformed the sound. 
  
 Hopefully they will get it right soon, have you heard any more news from the US distributor?


----------



## isquirrel

What surprised both myself and Fririce0003 is that the 45's sounded better in every respect and the bass was much stronger.


----------



## Khragon

isquirrel said:


> Hopefully they will get it right soon, have you heard any more news from the US distributor?


 
 No, I haven't heard anything.  I'm going to wait another week or two before pinging them again.  Our last conversation was 2 weeks ago and at the time they still don't know what Elrog's plan is for their 300B.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> I have decided to take the plunge with some HE-1000's, Australian stock should be here in the next week or so. I am going to try them with the DHC cable and give them plenty of burn in. At least they bridge the gap between the Audeze's and the Abyss and will definatly be more comfortable.
> 
> Anyone else getting them?


 
 i already have them and really like them. I bet they will pair beautiful with your Woo Monos because they do like power and the more the better they sound.
 They are a lot lighter than the HE-6 and much more comfortable too. The bass is great, Some people has complained about the midrange being a little receded but I personally don't find it like that. I am using a WireWorld Nano Platinum cable (OCC silver) and really open them up and I am waiting for a DHC Complement4.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

isquirrel said:


> True but only at the Takatsuki, WE level, the 45's I have are better than the Elrog's especially in the bass area.


 
  
 Always have referred 45's over 300b and 2A3.  No tube can outperform the 45s in clarity/transparency in the migrange, especially for female vocal.  Surprise to read 45 bass > Elrog 300b.  Bass has always been the 45 Achilles' heel.
  
 BTW, nos 45 or new 45 (EML, KR)?


----------



## 3083joe

Stocking up 
♨️


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Stocking up
> ♨️


 
 Cool. You have the NU in 6F and 6C. They sounded identical to me. The 6C has higher gain tho. Let us know if you pick a difference.


----------



## isquirrel

sko0bydoo said:


> Always have referred 45's over 300b and 2A3.  No tube can outperform the 45s in clarity/transparency in the migrange, especially for female vocal.  Surprise to read 45 bass > Elrog 300b.  Bass has always been the 45 Achilles' heel.
> 
> BTW, nos 45 or new 45 (EML, KR)?


 

 NOS 45's Syvannia's - early 1940's I was surprised to at their bass performance, retains all of the good aspect of the Elrog's and fills in the bottom end nicely.


----------



## isquirrel

musicman59 said:


> i already have them and really like them. I bet they will pair beautiful with your Woo Monos because they do like power and the more the better they sound.
> They are a lot lighter than the HE-6 and much more comfortable too. The bass is great, Some people has complained about the midrange being a little receded but I personally don't find it like that. I am using a WireWorld Nano Platinum cable (OCC silver) and really open them up and I am waiting for a DHC Complement4.


 

 Thank you, some positive feedback for a change, these headphone seem to Polarise peoples opinions. 
  
 How much difference did the Wireworld HP cable make over stock? Did it improve the midrange?
  
 How do you rank compared to the Audeze LCD-3F's & or X's? You are correct about Headphone needing a lot of power, I could not believe how different the 3F's sounded when being driven by the 234's. I have the DHC Spore 4 Fusion and very happy with it, Peter is sending out the pure Silver Spore 4 cables for comparison. I have never been a fan of pure silver cables however Peter really knows his stuff so will be interesting.


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> You should be able to do that with Audio Perfection in Richfield. They carry Chord and Rega and I suspect they would let you bring in your laptop and your WA6 and have at it.
> 
> The problem with a used Rega is you really want the new model (DAC-R), because they've updated the USB receiver chipset to modern standards (async, 192/24); with the original version, you will need a USB-to-S/PDIF converter for higher sample rates, if you are into that sort of thing. Personally, I think that's a better solution, electrically, but it costs more and it's an extra box.


Thanks Krutsch. I'll get over there as soon as I get my new toy put together,  and the lawn mowed.


----------



## MIKELAP

Been listening to my WA22 with Tung Sol 6SU7GTY as drivers really like there sound ,separation of instruments and soundstage extra wide with HD800 rectifier is a 5R4WGB along with  Chatham 6AS7G as power tubes


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Been listening to my WA22 with Tung Sol 6SU7GTY as drivers really like there sound ,separation of instruments and soundstage extra wide with HD800 rectifier is a 5R4WGB along with  Chatham 6AS7G as power tubes


----------



## Sko0byDoo

isquirrel said:


> NOS 45's Syvannia's - early 1940's I was surprised to at their bass performance, retains all of the good aspect of the Elrog's and fills in the bottom end nicely.


 
  
 Old 45s are great, Sylvania, Ken-rad, National Union, Philco, Raytheon, RCA, Tung Sol.  I, sometimes, refer them over the new EML 45s.  The EML 45s mid-range not as clear as the NOS but the bass extends a little better (as least for EML 45 mesh).  You should try to get hold of 45/245/345 Globes.  Hard to grab a NOS set, but their mid-range is the sweetest.
  
 I'm trying 46 tubes now, alleged to be even better than 45s.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Picked up my new WA5 with parts upgrade today… am pretty blown away, and that's just with the stock tubes.  Already have some new ones coming to roll with, too.
  
 Heard that Woo has just raised the price on their WA5, too.  It also now comes with the parts upgrade automatically, and chimes in around $5200.  I think the owner of the store said they were ceasing production on the WA5 LE, but honestly, my mind was going a mile a minute in that store, and all I could do was think about rushing home to plug my beast in, so don't quote me.
  
 I also ended up with a Rega DAC, which apparently didn't make it home with the power chord, so I couldn't test it out tonight.


----------



## bpcans

michaelkeeney, congrats on the new gear. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> Thank you, some positive feedback for a change, these headphone seem to Polarise peoples opinions.
> 
> How much difference did the Wireworld HP cable make over stock? Did it improve the midrange?
> 
> How do you rank compared to the Audeze LCD-3F's & or X's? You are correct about Headphone needing a lot of power, I could not believe how different the 3F's sounded when being driven by the 234's. I have the DHC Spore 4 Fusion and very happy with it, Peter is sending out the pure Silver Spore 4 cables for comparison. I have never been a fan of pure silver cables however Peter really knows his stuff so will be interesting.


 
 Yes, there was an improvement with the WireWorld cable IMO since it is OCC Silver. To me the transparency got even better, the bass tighter (but without sacrificing the lower end), the midrange came up more ( I did not have a problem with the midrange as other people had expressed) and the soundstage got slightly bigger too.
  
 Even that these headphones supose to be fairly efficient I can tell they do like power. I just listen to them list night out of the speakers tabs of my McIntosh MHA100 which will provive just over 10 watts at the HE1000 impedance and they sounded even better. The main changes were on the bass control and soundstage got bigger and more holographic.
  
 I have no experience with the Audeze headphones. I tried the original LCD-3 at RMAF before they went out to the market and loved them. I order a pair (twice) and they sounded totally different (for the bad). I even compared one of those two that I ordered to Jude's pair (his are form those at RMAF) side by side and they sounded totally different so form that point on I was turned off from Audeze. I told Jude the only Audeze headphones I would buy are his.


----------



## longbowbbs

I did not care for the 2's or 3's. I love the X's and am glad I bought them


----------



## michaelkeeney

bpcans said:


> michaelkeeney, congrats on the new gear. Looking forward to your impressions.




Thanks bpcans. Certainly made my grados sound a hell of a lot better. 

I also had the opportunity to listen to the new Abyss cans while I was in the store through some fancy solid state amp. That was pretty mind blowing, however I'm not sure on the comfort level of those things. Thats a different thread, tho.


----------



## bpcans

michaelkeeney said:


> Thanks bpcans. Certainly made my grados sound a hell of a lot better.
> 
> I also had the opportunity to listen to the new Abyss cans while I was in the store through some fancy solid state amp. That was pretty mind blowing, however I'm not sure on the comfort level of those things. Thats a different thread, tho.


 Your very welcome MK. IMHO Grado hp's and Woo amplifiers are a great sonic match. I totally understand where your coming from with the feel, comfort, and weight of some of the flagship headphones out there. I really liked the Mcintosh MHP-1000's, Audeze LCD-X's, the Abyss, and the HE-1000's, all were so much more uncomfortable than my Grado RS1i's.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Grado hp's and Woo amplifiers are a great sonic match.


 
 +1000


----------



## daverich4

michaelkeeney said:


> Heard that Woo has just raised the price on their WA5, too.  It also now comes with the parts upgrade automatically, and chimes in around $5200.  I think the owner of the store said they were ceasing production on the WA5 LE




Perhaps that's the plan for the future? The web site still lists the LE and the standard non-upgraded WA5.


----------



## TonyNewman

Sharing some WA5 love. SERPs, 6SL7 TS RPs, Brimars, modded HD800. Not a bad sound at all.
  

  
 HD800 seems to thrive with tube amps. Really nice pairing with WA5.


----------



## bpcans

TonyN, I live for this kind of Woo amp porn on a Friday night. Thanks for posting. How sad is my life anyway?


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Sharing some WA5 love. SERPs, 6SL7 TS RPs, Brimars, modded HD800. Not a bad sound at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Love!


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> TonyN, I live for this kind of Woo amp porn on a Friday night. Thanks for posting. How sad is my life anyway?


 
  
 About as sad as mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have a HeadFi buddy coming over this afternoon for some WA5/430HA quality time, with some help from Mr Corona...


----------



## bpcans

Tony, you drink enough Corona's and everything will either sound mind blowingly fantastic or exasperatingly like crap. Be careful as I believe there's a mathematical correlation between the number of beers ingested and the level of volume required to reach audio satisfaction. Okay, I just made that up. Enjoy.


----------



## Stereolab42

daverich4 said:


> Perhaps that's the plan for the future? The web site still lists the LE and the standard non-upgraded WA5.


 
  
 Since it looks like the cat's out of the bag now... when I ordered my WA5-LEs two weeks ago (shipped today) Jack told me they were refreshing the WA5 lineup very soon, but prices would take a big jump. He gave me the option to buy the current model at the current price and I jumped on it. I imagine an official announcement will come very soon. I'm sure if anyone is in the market Jack would be glad to give more details over email.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> Since it looks like the cat's out of the bag now... when I ordered my WA5-LEs two weeks ago (shipped today) Jack told me they were refreshing the WA5 lineup very soon, but prices would take a big jump. He gave me the option to buy the current model at the current price and I jumped on it. I imagine an official announcement will come very soon. I'm sure if anyone is in the market Jack would be glad to give more details over email.


 
  





  We previewed a prototype at Newport show two weeks ago.


----------



## michaelkeeney

bpcans said:


> Your very welcome MK. IMHO Grado hp's and Woo amplifiers are a great sonic match. I totally understand where your coming from with the feel, comfort, and weight of some of the flagship headphones out there. I really liked the Mcintosh MHP-1000's, Audeze LCD-X's, the Abyss, and the HE-1000's, all were so much more uncomfortable than my Grado RS1i's.



 I've heard that about many of those cans, too. I'm only rocking some PS500's, and have started thinking about what my upgrade will be down the line. Comfort is a big deal, but I also want something that will take full advantage of the WA5's power. 



tonynewman said:


> Sharing some WA5 love. SERPs, 6SL7 TS RPs, Brimars, modded HD800. Not a bad sound at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Can't help but listen to all these happy Senn customers. Will have to check out what mods you've done, TonyNewman. 




hifiguy528 said:


> We previewed a prototype at Newport show two weeks ago.




Like I said, the "new model" from my understanding, will be the old model but with the parts upgrade coming standard (and costing more). Did they say anything different at the show?


----------



## Stereolab42

michaelkeeney said:


> Like I said, the "new model" from my understanding, will be the old model but with the parts upgrade coming standard (and costing more). Did they say anything different at the show?


 
  
 From what I was told the new models will have additional features to justify the price jump, but the internal parts upgrade will still be an optional extra. I'll let the Woo guys reveal what the new features are (at least one is clear from the photo anyways, heh).


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Sharing some WA5 love. SERPs, 6SL7 TS RPs, Brimars, modded HD800. Not a bad sound at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




HD800 certainly sounded wonderful. I'm not a Senny fan but I have to admit it was kicking my rigs ass. Very nice combo.


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> TonyN, I live for this kind of Woo amp porn on a Friday night. Thanks for posting. How sad is my life anyway?


 

 I feel your pain brother, sitting here reading the forums listening to some tunes on a Saturday night


----------



## fhuang

hifiguy528 said:


> We previewed a prototype at Newport show two weeks ago.


 

 no speaker out for wa5?  this doesn't look like a wa5 le.  it has a k1k jack(now it says HP)  tell us what's the difference please?


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> Sharing some WA5 love. SERPs, 6SL7 TS RPs, Brimars, modded HD800. Not a bad sound at all.
> 
> 
> 
> HD800 seems to thrive with tube amps. Really nice pairing with WA5.


 
 I did not know you can use 6SL7 in the WA5/LE. They are not in the compatibility chart form Woo. How do they compared to 6F8G in sound? I personally prefer the 6F8G then the 6SN7.


----------



## Khragon

From what I gather, the new WA5 model will no longer have the K1K out (110ohm), instead it will be 25 ohm to be more compatible with today's slew of new planar headphones. The WA5 that mrspeakers uses to demo Ether is an early prototype. That is why Ether can use the xlr out without a lot of noise. Those small switches I think are used to control the xlr output. Again, I am speculating here.

I didn't know about the price hike, perhaps I should turn off the ad and keep my WA5.


----------



## musicman59

khragon said:


> From what I gather, the new WA5 model will no longer have the K1K out (110ohm), instead it will be 25 ohm to be more compatible with today's slew of new planar headphones. The WA5 that mrspeakers uses to demo Ether is an early prototype. That is why Ether can use the xlr out without a lot of noise. Those small switches I think are used to control the xlr output. Again, I am speculating here.
> 
> I didn't know about the price hike, perhaps I should turn off the ad and keep my WA5.


 
 I am speculating too but it could be that those switches are to control impedance (High and Low) and gain (High and Low) of the XLR output since there is already control of the impedance for the single ended output.
  
 I can tell you one thing, I tried the Ether with the WA5 at Dan's booth in AXPONA and the difference in sound from the single ended output to the XLR output was very significant. Out of the XLR output the sound was excellent.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> I did not know you can use 6SK7 in the WA5/LE. They are not in the compatibility chart form Woo. How do they compared to 6F8G in sound? I personally prefer the 6F8G then the 6SN7.


 
  
 Buddies of mine have got the word direct from Jack Wu - 6SL7 is OK to use as a substitute for 6SN7 in Woo amps. Been using them for ages with no problems.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Buddies of mine have got the word direct from Jack Wu - 6SL7 is OK to use as a substitute for 6SN7 in Woo amps. Been using them for ages with no problems.




Yip. I have been using 6C8g in my amp for 4 months now. No issues at all. However it is really really terrible that the tubes are a fraction of the price of 6F8g's.   I don't know how I can live with it.


----------



## musicman2006

Im in the middle of auditioning the WA3 and will get the WA2 soon to compare. I personally like layering and soundstage depth and width, so Im hoping the WA2 will give more of that for its price.


----------



## Badas

musicman2006 said:


> Im in the middle of auditioning the WA3 and will get the WA2 soon to compare. I personally like layering and soundstage depth and width, so Im hoping the WA2 will give more of that for its price.




I have heard the WA2 before. Only with stock tubes tho. It is very impressive sonically. Only thing against it is power. Not the most powerful amp. So depending on the headphones it might not be suitable.


----------



## musicman2006

I'll be using the HD600 headphones. On the WA3, I never really went past the 12 oclock position. Specs say the WA3 puts 330mW in to 300 ohms and the WA2 puts 640mW in 300 ohms. Plus I'll be using it heavily as a preamp for a pair of Magnepan 1.7 and heavily modified Wharfedale diamond 10.1
 I can already tell the WA3 improves the holographic effect for the speakersso far.


----------



## 3083joe

Wow this tube rolling addiction is bad. 
♨️


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Wow this tube rolling addiction is bad.
> ♨️


 
  
 Wait until you start playing with high end 300Bs. Selling a kidney isn't close to cutting it. As for vintage WE300Bs - just remove all of your internal organs for sale on Ebay so that you are an empty husk.


----------



## Badas

musicman2006 said:


> I'll be using the HD600 headphones. On the WA3, I never really went past the 12 oclock position. Specs say the WA3 puts 330mW in to 300 ohms and the WA2 puts 640mW in 300 ohms. Plus I'll be using it heavily as a preamp for a pair of Magnepan 1.7 and heavily modified Wharfedale diamond 10.1
> I can already tell the WA3 improves the holographic effect for the speakersso far.


 
  
 HD600 will be a great pairing with the WA2. I was just hoping you weren't expecting the WA2 to power a HE-6 for example. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


3083joe said:


> Wow this tube rolling addiction is bad.
> ♨️


 
  
 Yes it is. It can be fun but hard on your wallet. I do like when you find gems at reasonable prices tho.


----------



## 3083joe

Yes it is. It can be fun but hard on your wallet. I do like when you find gems at reasonable prices tho.
[/quote]
Yes like 6C8G nu for $30 a pair.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> ...
> Yes like 6C8G nu for $30 a pair.


 
  
 A tube near and dear to my heart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not sure how many of those I have. More than a dozen, I think. Very, very nice tube.


----------



## Khragon

6C8G are those good for WA5? how do they sound compare to 6F8G? and also 6SL7?


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> 6C8G are those good for WA5? how do they sound compare to 6F8G? and also 6SL7?


 
  
 NU 6C8G work fine in the WA5.
  
 The NU 6F8G does not work in the WA5 as driving the 300Bs is too much for them and they go noisey as a MF.
  
 The NU 6C8Gs have a slightly higher rating and can do the heavy lifting the 300Bs require.
  
 Never seen an NU 6SL7, so can't comment on that.
  
 I am using a TS RP 6SL7 in my WA5 right now - loving it.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> 6C8G are those good for WA5? how do they sound compare to 6F8G? and also 6SL7?


 

 6C8G works better than 6F8G in the WA5. 6F8G produces noise. 6C8G does not due to handling 300B power better.
  
 Tony tested 6C8G compared to 6SL7 and he said it was very similar if not the same.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> NU 6C8G work fine in the WA5.
> 
> The NU 6F8G does not work in the WA5 as driving the 300Bs is too much for them and they go noisey as a MF.
> 
> ...



Any other good 6c8s
Also I have a pair of 6sl7 nu on the way. I'll let you know how they sound.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Any other good 6c8s
> Also I have a pair of 6sl7 nu on the way. I'll let you know how they sound.


 
 NU's are a bargain.

 Yes please tell.


----------



## 3083joe

Anyone heard firve tubes?


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Anyone heard firve tubes?


 

 Yes. A Italian manufacturer that marketed themselves to be as good as American made tubes. Their old posters are a riot.
  
 I have some Fivre rectifiers. I like better than the Mullard GZ32 but not as much as the Brimar 5Z4GY.
  
 I noticed the talk on the 6SN7 thread about the Fivre drivers. Is that why you are asking?


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Anyone heard firve tubes?


 
  
 Heard one of their rectifiers. Cheap, but kinda rubbish compared to the Brimar.


----------



## musicman2006

badas said:


> HD600 will be a great pairing with the WA2. I was just hoping you weren't expecting the WA2 to power a HE-6 for example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL  I know better than to expect almost anything to fully power the HE6. I got lazy didn't want to keep switching my speaker cables and HE6 cables in the back of my one and only stereo amp (Emotiva), so I settled back on to the HD600. The magnepans can certainly satisfy my thirst for planar magnetic detail. 
  
 I've been using a hybrid tube design called Project Ember by Garage1217 which I will always keep because it is so versatile. In fact, I have a hard time justifying the expense of the WA3 over the Project Ember. However, curiosity got the better of me and I want to see just how much tube amps can create a more holographic/3D effect without having to upgrade to an end game DAC ( I currently have an Uber Bifrost).  At the point where I would have the funds to buy a $2,000 + tube amp, Id rather buy the Schiit Yggdrasil.


----------



## abvolt

I just ordered a pair of the nu 6c8g's very anxious on hearing them I'll certainly let you know my thoughts on them, there sure a lot less in cost then the 6f8g's that part makes me smile..


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Yes. A Italian manufacturer that marketed themselves to be as good as American made tubes. Their old posters are a riot.
> 
> I have some Fivre rectifiers. I like better than the Mullard GZ32 but not as much as the Brimar 5Z4GY.
> 
> I noticed the talk on the 6SN7 thread about the Fivre drivers. Is that why you are asking?



Got ya. Yes I was just wondering about the drivers.


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> I just ordered a pair of the nu 6c8g's very anxious on hearing them I'll certainly let you know my thoughts on them, there sure a lot less in cost then the 6f8g's that part makes me smile..



Got mine 
Just waiting on Glenn's adapters


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I just ordered a pair of the nu 6c8g's very anxious on hearing them I'll certainly let you know my thoughts on them, there sure a lot less in cost then the 6f8g's that part makes me smile..


 

 The 6F8g's were so much better than all of the 6SN7 types I had listened to. Even the worst 6F8G was better than the best 6SN7 I had heard.
  
 I have the NU 6F8g and 6C8g and they sound exactly the same. Construction is absolutely the same as well. Only the heater voltage is suppose to be different. For the record the RCA 6C8g with the NU style plates is nice as well. Just a tad dryer.


----------



## reeltime

Where can I find Takatsukis online?  I only have a Japanese website.  Is there a US distributor?
  
 Thinking about 274Bs.  I'm one of the few who have had nothing but success with Elrogs.


----------



## Silent One

3083joe said:


> Anyone heard firve tubes?


 
 I have a pair (2 pairs I think) of their 6SN7's that I used in my _WA 6 Special Edition _and 2359glenn OTL amp.


----------



## reeltime

I've had the HE-1000 for about a month, I've done an extensive burn-in, and I'm ready to give some sound impressions on the HE-1000.  
  
 They're paired with the Woo Audio WA5LE with Elrog 300B, GZ-34 metal base rectifiers (from 1957), and RCA 6SN7 drivers.  The only tube swapping I've done along the way is swapping the 596 for the GZ-34 early on. Signal path: My rig is set for both digital files and LPs.  The digital rig is a MacBook Pro > Wyred4Sound DAC2 > WA5LE.  The analog rig is VPI Scout > Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge > Clearaudio Basic+ battery phono stage > WA5LE.  
  
 My reference headphone is the Sennheiser HD-800.  I've spent years with the Sennheiser, and frankly, I've been perfectly happy with them.  This opportunity to beta test the HE-1000 came up, and I couldn't pass it up.  My previous impressions of the HE-1000 were at CanJam Los Angeles.  The headphone was a bit warm on the ear, and I was a bit stuck with the lack of musical selection, so while I was impressed by the overall quality of the HE, I didn't have a decent sense of their true character because the music selections were extremely eclectic, and I wasn't familiar with the recordings.  
  
 Notice: I'm under a bit of an non-disclosure regarding construction of the headphone and packaging, it is a beta, and there will be a changes to the final production models.  I will simply say: Everything about the presentation of this headphone is of the highest order and quality. 
  
 The sound out of the headphone changes dramatically as they break in.  Out of the box the bass was so overdriving, it was almost comical.  I pulled the GZ-34 (a hefty bass presence tube) out of the WA5-LE and exchanged them for the 596 (more delicate controlled bass) to get everything under control.  It was simply dominant up until the 48-hour mark.  The HE was terrific at low volumes-- but if you did some rocking out, the bass was of "Beats-ian" proportions, initially.  The break-in was done with several white/pink noise sweep files.  I've used this technique on every pair of high end headphones and it's never let me down.
  
 Bass is really what sets this headphone apart.  If you're looking for deep, quality, fast bass, the HE steps up.  Full bodied down to the lowest of lows, the HE delivers on bass.  I was thrilled once the break-in was over, and I switched back to the GZ-34.  It's full, rich, surrounding, and detailed.  Best bass experience I've had in a headphone.  (Let me stress-- I don't have a lot of listening time on the Stax or LCD3, so it's not fair for me to comment.)
  
 Treble is crisp and shiny.  It's a glossy treble.  The greatest concern has been regarding snare drums.  The HE was lacking snap and impact on the snare.  It was a definite problem area until the headphone broke in, and it continues to improve as I log hours on them.  I confess I wish there were as much snare impact as there is on toms and bass drums.  But finger-picked strings and brass fare quite well.  
  
 Mids seem slightly recessed.  It's not wrong, but it makes the sound a bit warmer in presentation than neutral.  With the mids recessed slightly, there's a bit more of a surround quality to the sound, and there's a bit of darkness to the headphone that's actually quite inviting.
  
 Imaging- other than bass, this is the area which most impresses me about the HE-1000.  I've never heard a headphone image as well as the HE-1000.  You can pinpoint every single instrument in a 3D space.  It's uncanny, and realistic.  If you are into imaging, this headphone will simply dazzle your brain.  It's a sensory delight.
  
 Soundstage- Soundstage is wide-- but it's not the most expansive headphone I've ever heard.  My belief is that soundstage is a tradeoff the HE makes for its unparalleled imaging.  Because every instrument and voice has such a specific location, you don't have a sense that the space around your head is infinite.  
  
 My overall impression is that the HE is a headphone for listening to and enjoying music.  I wouldn't call the HE the a neutral headphone, it's a bit on the warm side of neutral to my ears.  This is not a knock or a bad thing.  It's simply a characteristic.  Neutral headphones should be used in a recording studio, not at home enjoying a great piece of classical music, chilling to Miles, or relaxing to The Beatles.  I don't need a clinical assessment of my music, I want to enjoy it.  Enjoying music is what the HE is all about.
  
 Shootout Comparison: One thing I kept doing (and continue to do) is A/B the HE with the Sennheiser HD800.  And what I'm about to write surprised me:  The Sennheiser holds its own against the HifiMan.  They are different headphones, but I was shocked that the HEs didn't make me want to chuck my HDs out the window.  I enjoy each of them for different reasons, and both headphones deliver cohesive, enjoyable music.
  
 Where the HE has this spot-on imaging, the HD has a wider soundstage that goes on forever.  The HD floats the mids delicately in the middle of your brain, the HE pinpoints everything.  Neither is necessarily better than the other, it's just a different experience.  There are things I appreciate about each headphone, and that's a bit credit to Sennheiser that their aging flagship is still relevant in an era of wafer thin diaphragm magnetic planars and electrostats.  I wouldn't think one crazy for selecting the HD800 over the HE-1000.  
  
 The HD800 cannot compete with the HE on bass.  The HD800 cannot compete with the HE on imaging.  But the HD is better through the midrange.  The HD has a wider soundstage.  The HD is slightly better with female vocals and percussion impact in the upper frequencies.  The HE is better with male vocals and anything recorded with the microphone close.  Both are world-class headphones, and that is a good thing.  For now, my personal selection is the HE, but that's probably because it's new.  I would be perfectly happy with either headphone.


----------



## Fririce0003

reeltime said:


> Where can I find Takatsukis online?  I only have a Japanese website.  Is there a US distributor?
> 
> Thinking about 274Bs.  I'm one of the few who have had nothing but success with Elrogs.




Only two ways to order them are through price Japan or directly from amtrans in person which means going to Akihabara in Japan. The only distributor for Takatsuki is Amtrans and price Japan buys from them then chuck on a handling fee. Doesn't seem like they're too keen on getting global distributors either.... I gotta plan another trip to Japan


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> Only two ways to order them are through price Japan or directly from amtrans in person which means going to Akihabara in Japan. The only distributor for Takatsuki is Amtrans and price Japan buys from them then chuck on a handling fee. Doesn't seem like they're too keen on getting global distributors either.... I gotta plan another trip to Japan


 
  
 Or ya gotta know the right people ...


----------



## 3083joe

silent one said:


> I have a pair (2 pairs I think) of their 6SN7's that I used in my _WA 6 Special Edition_ and 2359glenn OTL amp.



Do you like them?


----------



## kokushu

Going to do some comparison between these five headphones with the WA5 and WEE.  From left to right LCD2, HE 1K, SR 009, TH 900, HD 800.  This will be interesting.


----------



## Khragon

kokushu said:


> Going to do some comparison between these five headphones with the WA5 and WEE.  From left to right LCD2, HE 1K, SR 009, TH 900, HD 800.  This will be interesting.


 
 Nice! looking forward to the comparison.


----------



## Badas

kokushu said:


> Going to do some comparison between these five headphones with the WA5 and WEE.  From left to right LCD2, HE 1K, SR 009, TH 900, HD 800.  This will be interesting.


 

 Damn. Now that's a party.


----------



## 3083joe

Enjoying my woo


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Enjoying my woo


 
  
 Very nice. Damn the HD700 is the most comfortable HP that I owned.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Very nice. Damn the HD700 is the most comfortable HP that I owned.



Thanks if I can just get the Glenn's adapter in ill get the 596s and nu 6f8s in.


----------



## JamesBr

3083joe said:


> Thanks if I can just get the Glenn's adapter in ill get the 596s and nu 6f8s in.


 









  
 I would like to hear from your comments when you get them!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Thanks if I can just get the Glenn's adapter in ill get the 596s and nu 6f8s in.


 

 That will take it to a completely different level. I couldn't believe how much of a jump 6F8G was over 6SN7. Everything was better and by a lot.


----------



## devilboy

Kokushu, what time should I be there?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

reeltime said:


> Where can I find Takatsukis online?  I only have a Japanese website.  Is there a US distributor?
> 
> Thinking about 274Bs.  I'm one of the few who have had nothing but success with Elrogs.


 
  
 Saw this: http://www.dagogo.com/takatsuki-ta-300b-vacuum-tube-review
  
 Listed U.S. distributor as Axiss Audio, 17800 South Main Street, Suite 109, Gardena, CA 90248, Tel. (310) 329-0187.  Axiss Audio website doesn't list the TA-300b, so may be old info.
  
Amtrans used to list the TA-300b via Amazon a few months ago, but since removed.  Given USD/Yen ratio is favorable for U.S. buyer, may be better to buy from Japanese onlines.
  
Got my set via PriceJapan a few weeks ago.  Came through fine.  They air-shipped it, so got it in 4 days!


----------



## musicman2006

Has anyone ever tried a 6sn7 in a wa2 or wa3 ? I accidentally ordered one instead of a 6as7 and decided to pop it in since it has the same pin layout. I must say it sounds pretty good !


----------



## Badas

musicman2006 said:


> Has anyone ever tried a 6sn7 in a wa2 or wa3 ? I accidentally ordered one instead of a 6as7 and decided to pop it in since it has the same pin layout. I must say it sounds pretty good !


 

  Dude I would not do that. 6SN7 is a driver tube not a power tube. Unless you want something to explode I would stop and check.
  
 If you blow your tube you could damage the caps. Then you are up for a repair.


----------



## musicman2006

badas said:


> Dude I would not do that. 6SN7 is a driver tube not a power tube. Unless you want something to explode I would stop and check.
> 
> If you blow your tube you could damage the caps. Then you are up for a repair.


 

 You're probably right. Glad it didn't explode, won't be trying it again unless Mr Woo says otherwise.


----------



## Silent One

3083joe said:


> Do you like them?


 
 Yes, they had their place. But my early 1940's TS-BGRP VT-231's were sitting in the top slot.


----------



## 3083joe

Thoughts 
Millard Rectifiers
Gz30, 32, 34 or 37
Which is best in your opinion?


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Thoughts
> Millard Rectifiers
> Gz30, 32, 34 or 37
> Which is best in your opinion?


 

 I think you mean Mullard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 GZ34 is the best. However get ready to sell a body part.
 GZ32 has great respect. I have half a dozen and think they are nice.
 GZ37 is suppose to be nice and people are moving to them as the GZ32 goes up in price.
 GZ30 not much talk about it. Maybe you can try and report.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I think you mean Mullard.
> 
> GZ34 is the best. However get ready to sell a body part.
> GZ32 has great respect. I have half a dozen and think they are nice.
> ...



Cool. Thanks
Seems there are several different gz34 how do you know which is the good one? 
Tia


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Cool. Thanks
> Seems there are several different gz34 how do you know which is the good one?
> Tia


 

 Metal base. But they are extreme prices.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> I think you mean Mullard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 32/37 are about equal in price on eBay, although I prefer the 37 simply because it's bigger, and appears to be running out of stock quicker.


----------



## 3083joe

Love the glow 

Can't wait to get back from beach to try out some 596s and nu6f8s


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Can't wait to get back from beach to try out some 596s and nu6f8s


 
 Like too hear what you think.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Like too hear what you think.



Will let you know.


----------



## 3083joe

Excellent album


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Excellent album


 

 I've tried her music before and it didn't gel. Too slow. I should give her another try.


----------



## joseph69

I switched out my UE-596/NU-6F8G tubes tonight in the WA6/RS1i combo which I've been listening too for quite some time now with the SE-Princess/Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boys" and I must say that regardless of what people think about the SP and 6SN7's, this combo IMO really brings a nice rich tone to the mid-range of the RS1i's. I didn't realize/remember how much I enjoyed this combo being I haven't listened to it in so long. I have absolutely no complaints, its a very easy/relaxing/full bodied sound, just as nice as any other combo I use, neither better/worse, just a different listening experience all in all, especially with the richness in the vocals, which I find beautiful!


----------



## jhljhl

Anyone try the LCD3-f with the WA22- it's not as mentioned a combination. I understand that they are known to be really good with hd800 and I think the pairing is excellent but I'm impressed with the LCD3f- it's not as resolving as the LAu but I think it has it's merits in presenting a wide sound stage.


----------



## Porteroso

joseph69 said:


> I switched out my UE-596/NU-6F8G tubes tonight in the WA6/RS1i combo which I've been listening too for quite some time now with the SE-Princess/Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boys" and I must say that regardless of what people think about the SP and 6SN7's, this combo IMO really brings a nice rich tone to the mid-range of the RS1i's. I didn't realize/remember how much I enjoyed this combo being I haven't listened to it in so long. I have absolutely no complaints, its a very easy/relaxing/full bodied sound, just as nice as any other combo I use, neither better/worse, just a different listening experience all in all, especially with the richness in the vocals, which I find beautiful!


 
 I totally agree. I think the Sophia Princess is much more transparent than most rectifiers. And it gets a bad reputation because it's not technically as great as others. And it's definitely overpriced. But with great driver tubes, it can sound really good in the WA6. I halfway think it actually approaches the Brimar 5Z4G in terms of fun. Completely opposite, but you get this wide, full sound. It is not as dynamic, but sometimes that's actually beneficial. It can make for a great listening experience.
  
 That said, my U52 is not coming out of the amp until it dies. I'd love to hear the 596, or the WE, but, well, I will stick with the U52.


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> I totally agree. I think the Sophia Princess is much more transparent than most rectifiers. And it gets a bad reputation because it's not technically as great as others. And it's definitely overpriced. But with great driver tubes, it can sound really good in the WA6. I halfway think it actually approaches the Brimar 5Z4G in terms of fun. Completely opposite, but you get this wide, full sound. It is not as dynamic, but sometimes that's actually beneficial. It can make for a great listening experience.
> 
> That said, my U52 is not coming out of the amp until it dies. I'd love to hear the 596, or the WE, but, well, I will stick with the U52.


 
  
 I found the SP rectifier lost the bass. It just isn't happening with the SP. I then went to the severely overpriced Psvane WE274 replica tube and got (muddy) bass - but at least the bass was there. Then got the Brimar and got good bass - clear and strong and present. That was a revelation.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> I totally agree. I think the Sophia Princess is much more transparent than most rectifiers. And it gets a bad reputation because it's not technically as great as others. And it's definitely overpriced. But with great driver tubes, it can sound really good in the WA6. I halfway think it actually approaches the Brimar 5Z4G in terms of fun. Completely opposite, but you get this wide, full sound. It is not as dynamic, but sometimes that's actually beneficial. It can make for a great listening experience.
> 
> That said, my U52 is not coming out of the amp until it dies. I'd love to hear the 596, or the WE, but, well, I will stick with the U52.


 
 I feel the SP/6SN7 combo in short is more intimate. There for I enjoy what it bring to the table…same goes for all of my other tube combos. Glad your enjoying the U52.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> I found the SP rectifier lost the bass. It just isn't happening with the SP. I then went to the severely overpriced Psvane WE274 replica tube and got (muddy) bass - but at least the bass was there. Then got the Brimar and got good bass - clear and strong and present. That was a revelation.


 
 I didn't find the bass an issue, at all.
 What driver/power tubes are you using with the SP in the WA6?
 Also, you don't own Grados, correct?


----------



## Porteroso

To Tony, you might have gotten a bad SP, who knows. Or maybe I got a really good one. But the bass is good. Actually I should listen again to make sure. I will freely admit, I don't listen to tons of bass-centric music. Lots of classical, but even that will touch the sub-bass with organ/bass. From my remembrances, and I know I did a very detailed writeup of the SP vs Brimar, I think the Brimar does beat it, but in a weird way. The SP just feels more flat in all frequencies, that is how I remember it. The Brimar gives much more life, much more dynamic. But the listening experience with the SP never felt like less, somehow. It was still just as fun to listen to, and I think I had the Tung Sols in when I was listening. Another thing to consider, tube pairing.
  
 I do remember putting in the U52 for the first time though. At first, "wat. This is weird." Then, I realized how right everything sounded. There was this space, this extra dimension, that everything had. I think the 5Z4G adds something, some sort of dynamic, to music. I am not sure it is all that accurate. And it is certainly warm. In a way, the U52 and SP, they better represent how my ears hear things in real life. At least, that is my opinion. I know you and badas love the Brimars, and for the price, yes. Absolutely. But you've also spent a fair amount of effort sourcing and researching driver tubes, so I think maybe finding end tier rectifiers would benefit you. Then again, once you get one of the great 3 or 4, I doubt you can go back. And they're expensive. So who knows. Maybe not worth it. A never ending search, until you just decide "this is where it stops."
  
 Anyways, about the SP, I don't really know why I found it fun. Maybe too, it is an old sound signature that I listened to so much, and that had something to do with it.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> Anyways, about the SP, I don't really know why I found it fun. *Maybe too, it is an old sound signature that I listened to so much, and that had something to do with it.*


 
 Funny, but this may be very true for me also. 
 When I first started listening tonight, I thought wow, this is a great memory which I miss or is real nice for a change.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> I didn't find the bass an issue, at all.
> What driver/power tubes are you using with the SP in the WA6?
> Also, you don't own Grados, correct?


 
  
 Correct - no Grados.
  
 My SP experience was back in my early days of tube rolling when I had less than great drivers.
  
 I will try again in the WA6 with the NUs - that might be a better test bed against the Brimar.


----------



## TonyNewman

Removed the Brimar and popped in a SP. A few things came to mind right away.
  
 1) I had forgotten how $#%^!$% huge this tube is. Quite a squeeze with the NU 6F8Gs.
 2) I had forgotten how pretty this tube glows - yummy.
 3) I was wrong - bass is there. Not of the same quality as the Brimar, but it is happening. Have AC/DC bashing out "Who Made Who" - and there is boom and slam happening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Some WA6 SP Porn with NU 6F8G goodness:
  

  

  
 Going to leave this baby in for a few weeks and see how far it can go. Not in the same league as the Brimar, but not as bad as I had remembered it either.
  
 Might give the EML 274B another try after that. I have been a little hard on this tube a few times as a poor bang for the buck choice - have to give it another chance with the better drivers and see how that works out.
  
 Interesting how initial impressions can change after returning to a tube after a few months or years. Anyone else experience that?
  
 EDIT - now playing INXS "New Sensation" and the bass is pretty damn GOOD. Not quite Brimar good, but not bad at all.


----------



## bumblebeezack

Hi guys, just an update. Today I received my first tube bought from Langrex and as such also my first tube roll!
  






  
 Gonna listen to some tunes now!


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Hi guys, just an update. Today I received my first tube bought from Langrex and as such also my first tube roll!
> 
> Gonna listen to some tunes now!


 
  
 Congrats on joining Club Brimar - the best value rectifier out there (that I know about anyway).
  
 Let us know your thoughts on the SQ.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Correct - no Grados.
> My SP experience was back in my early days of tube rolling when I had less than great drivers.
> I will try again in the WA6 with the NUs - that might be a better test bed against the Brimar.


 
 I had such a hard time fitting the SP/NU's together because I only have Glenns adapters which was causing the largest circumference of the NU's glass to rest on the largest circumference of the SP's glass. I didn't want them against one another so I didn't use the NU's. You have 2 or 3 adapters under your NU's which would put the thinner circumference of the glass of the NU's higher than the fatter circumference of the SP, so your better off.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> I had such a hard time fitting the SP/NU's together because I only have Glenns adapters which was causing the largest circumference of the NU's glass to rest on the largest circumference of the SP's glass. I didn't want them against one another so I didn't use the NU's. You have 2 or 3 adapters under your NU's which would put the thinner circumference of the glass of the NU's higher than the fatter circumference of the SP, so your better off.



Hope I don't have issues but the 596 is pretty thin so it should be good. 
Good info from all as I'm very new with rolling.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I've tried her music before and it didn't gel. Too slow. I should give her another try.



Give these two songs a listen
This house is haunted 
it's alright with me.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> I had such a hard time fitting the SP/NU's together because I only have Glenns adapters which was causing the largest circumference of the NU's glass to rest on the largest circumference of the SP's glass. I didn't want them against one another so I didn't use the NU's. You have 2 or 3 adapters under your NU's which would put the thinner circumference of the glass of the NU's higher than the fatter circumference of the SP, so your better off.


 
  
 Correct 6DE7->6SN7, then 6SN7->6F8G. The tubes are very lightly touching - no real pressure at all. I'm OK with that.
  
 A pair of socket savers under the Glenn adapters would have a similar effect and might make it all work for you, but you would need those in 6DE7 style.
  
 Something like this:
  
LINK


----------



## sprite40

3083joe said:


> Cool. Thanks
> Seems there are several different gz34 how do you know which is the good one?
> Tia


 
 Mullard GZ34 Fat Base early production (f31 series)
  
  I think this is a good choice, and is not nearly as expensive as the metal base version, and it might outlive your amp!


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Hope I don't have issues but the 596 is pretty thin so it should be good.
> Good info from all as I'm very new with rolling.


 
 There are no issues with the 596/6F8G's fitment, its all good!
  


tonynewman said:


> Correct 6DE7->6SN7, then 6SN7->6F8G. The tubes are very lightly touching - no real pressure at all. I'm OK with that.
> A pair of socket savers under the Glenn adapters would have a similar effect and might make it all work for you, but you would need those in 6DE7 style.
> Something like this:
> LINK


 
 Thank you, I'm familiar with the socket savers.
 My tubes were also touching very slightly with no pressure, but I was a bit concerned due too them heating up so I just avoided the combo all together, but if yours are slightly touching with no pressure like mine, I'll try this combo tonight and see how they sounds. Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > I had such a hard time fitting the SP/NU's together because I only have Glenns adapters which was causing the largest circumference of the NU's glass to rest on the largest circumference of the SP's glass. I didn't want them against one another so I didn't use the NU's. You have 2 or 3 adapters under your NU's which would put the thinner circumference of the glass of the NU's higher than the fatter circumference of the SP, so your better off.
> ...


 

 I do have a adapter that goes from 6DE7 to 6F8 directly then you can leave out the 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapter.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> I do have a adapter that goes from 6DE7 to 6F8 directly then you can leave out the 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapter.



Yes. That what you just sent me right?


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> I do have a adapter that goes from 6DE7 to 6F8 directly then you can leave out the 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapter.


 
 Glenn, by all means in no way/shape/form did I mean your 6DE7>6F8G adapters was the reason for me having an issue with the glass touching the SP…its just the shape of both rectifier/drive tubes, so please don't take my post the wrong way, your adapters are excellent, and I always recommend them to others. After re-reading my post, it can seem to come across the wrong way which was not intended…at all.


----------



## novaca

> Originally Posted by *sprite40* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does anyone have experience with Mullard CV1377 (GZ34) Double Getter  Brown Base - compared to the other versions?
 Thanks.


----------



## bumblebeezack

Just an update of my personal experience with the Brimar 5Z4G. As in the words of Meghan Trainor, "It's all about the bass"! 

Frankly, I didn't expect that I'll be able to hear much difference. But was I surprised. Nice... I like! It also tames some sibilance for me as well, which is a bonus. Happy days! 

Thank you TonyNewmanand some others who pointed me towards the Brimar. Good value for like 35 bucks!


----------



## TonyNewman

bumblebeezack said:


> Just an update of my personal experience with the Brimar 5Z4G. As in the words of Meghan Trainor, "It's all about the bass"!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Badas deserves the credit for bringing this bargain tube to the forum.
  
 High end performance for not much coin - brilliant combination.


----------



## HiFiSi

Hello
  
 I am the proud owner of a WA22, matched with HD800 and a Bryston BDA-2.
  
 Having had the amp for six months, I am looking to roll tubes. It cam with the Sylvania 6SN7GT driver tube upgrade, now I am keen to replace the JAN6080 power tubes. Keen on the GE6080WA, but ebay never seems to explicitly state WA - so how can you tell? Here  is an example http://www.ebay.com/itm/111693787562?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 thanks
  
 Simon


----------



## daverich4

jhljhl said:


> Anyone try the LCD3-f with the WA22- it's not as mentioned a combination. I understand that they are known to be really good with hd800 and I think the pairing is excellent but I'm impressed with the LCD3f- it's not as resolving as the LAu but I think it has it's merits in presenting a wide sound stage.




Once I got my LCD-3f's my HD800's went to my backup system. The LCD highs are clear and detailed without being etched and overall the music has greater weight and fullness to it. They're a great match for my WA22.


----------



## 3083joe

hifisi said:


> Hello
> 
> I am the proud owner of a WA22, matched with HD800 and a Bryston BDA-2.
> 
> ...



In my experience (which is limited) as long as the numbers match you are good. They rarely state any amp as they work with so much.


----------



## 3083joe

Good morning. 
Not sure this is the best place for the question but being im a wa6 owner I figured I'd ask here. 
I'm looking for a new dac 
I want something good!
The ones I've been looking at are 
Rega dac (no high res usb) but don't really need it. Most music will be CDs or dad played through teac 
Cd-p800
Other options
Music hall 25.3 dac
Or pro ject dac box rs
Tia for any info or thought.


----------



## 2359glenn

joseph69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I do have a adapter that goes from 6DE7 to 6F8 directly then you can leave out the 6DE7 to 6SN7 adapter.
> ...


 

 I just meant it would lower the 6F8s with out using 2 adapters the tubes might not touch.


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> Good morning.
> Not sure this is the best place for the question but being im a wa6 owner I figured I'd ask here.
> I'm looking for a new dac
> I want something good!
> ...


 

 I use a Wyred4sound dac2   and i like it alot and is future proof. About usb let me tell you something ive been listening to music a long long time and having over 22,000 tunes on my pc, i think its the ultimate in listening experience  i just scroll down the cover art and choose my music make playlists and listen here's a screen capture to give you an idea  .the player i use is MUSICBEE


----------



## longbowbbs

Big thumbs up to the W4S DAC2. I have the DAC2 DSDse version that has been upgraded from the original DAC2 and it is a great bang for the buck piece.


----------



## JamesBr

3083joe said:


> In my experience (which is limited) as long as the numbers match you are good. They rarely state any amp as they work with so much.


 
  
 We went to the same school


----------



## musicman59

I bought 2 pairs of 6C8G for may WA5-LE. One is Tung-Sol and the other National Union. I received both yesterday and trying them I realized these tubes do not drive the 300B of my WA5-LE correctly so I am selling them.
 I just want to recuperate my cost. If somebody is interested please send me a PM.
 These are the tubes:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291491747730?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201131445557?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Jeb Listens

> ........





> The ones I've been looking at are
> Rega dac (no high res usb) but don't really need it. Most music will be CDs or dad played through teac


 
  
 I'm not sure if you're only looking at the second-hand original Rega DACs but just thought I'd mention that the newest revision of the Rega-DAC,  the "Rega DAC-R", is now fully asynchronous USB equipped accepting high res audio up to 192Hz, in case that was going to sway your decision at all.


----------



## Stereolab42

musicman59 said:


> I bought 2 pairs of 6C8G for may WA5-LE. One is Tung-Sol and the other National Union. I received both yesterday and trying them I realized these tubes do not drive the 300B of my WA5-LE correctly so I am selling them.
> I just want to recuperate my cost. If somebody is interested please send me a PM.
> These are the tubes:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/291491747730?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201131445557?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Interesting. Badas is going to be in a world of hurt if he ever upgrades to a WA5, lol.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Interesting. Badas is going to be in a world of hurt if he ever upgrades to a WA5, lol.


 
  
 I doubt it. I have been using the same tubes in my WA5 to drive 300Bs for months.
  
 Not sure what the problem is for other folks, but both these tubes (6C8G in NU / TS RP) work great in my WA5.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> I doubt it. I have been using the same tubes in my WA5 to drive 300Bs for months.
> 
> Not sure what the problem is for other folks, but both these tubes (6C8G in NU / TS RP) work great in my WA5.


 
 In my WA5-LE with both NOS pairs the output volume is much lower with the 6C8G than with the 6F8G and if I tried to reach the same volume the sound starts distorting. It seems to me that the driving power is much less.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> In my WA5-LE with both NOS pairs the output volume is much lower with the 6C8G than with the 6F8G and if I tried to reach the same volume the sound starts distorting. It seems to me that the driving power is much less.


 
  
 Strange. In my WA5 and WA6 6C8Gs have the opposite effect. The higher rating of the 6C8G gives a volume boost of around 20 to 30% vs the 6SN7 / 6F8G. Same thing happens in Badas's WA22.
  
 Pic below shows my WA5 with 6C8G NUs driving my HD800s at a comfortable listening level. You can see that the gain knob is around 9 o'clock. 10 o'clock is LOUD and not a level I like to use.
  

  
 I think there must be differences in the circuit design of the WA5LE vs WA5 for these tubes not to work for you.
  
 Had a similar experience playing about with C3G drivers on the WA5 - these work great on the WA5, but did not work well on a friend's WA234. They also had a very low gain issue and stopped using them.
  
 If you don't mind shipping them to New Zealand I will buy the 6C8Gs from you. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Interesting. Badas is going to be in a world of hurt if he ever upgrades to a WA5, lol.




Nah! I would go to a Glenn rather than another Woo. 




musicman59 said:


> In my WA5-LE with both NOS pairs the output volume is much lower with the 6C8G than with the 6F8G and if I tried to reach the same volume the sound starts distorting. It seems to me that the driving power is much less.




Weird. 6C8g is supose to have a higher gain. Even Jack said it was. In my WA22 gain is a lot higher. Never any distortion either. In Tony's WA5 NU 6F8g distorted and the NU 6C8g gave him higher gain and no distortion. 

So it is a mystery.


----------



## musicman59

badas said:


> Nah! I would go to a Glenn rather than another Woo.
> Weird. 6C8g is supose to have a higher gain. Even Jack said it was. In my WA22 gain is a lot higher. Never any distortion either. In Tony's WA5 NU 6F8g distorted and the NU 6C8g gave him higher gain and no distortion.
> 
> So it is a mystery.


 
 How knows.. my WA5-LE is 5 years old, has all the electronic upgrades and all the internal wiring is Neotech OCC Copper with Cardas Eutectic solder. Right now I am using the Elrog 300B tubes. It is very clear how much lower the volume is when the 6C8G are in compared to the 6F8G.


----------



## abvolt

I'm listening to a pair of NU 6c8g's with my wa22 and noticed higher gain over my sylvania 6f8g's I really love the difference there great sounding tubes..


----------



## reeltime

longbowbbs said:


> Big thumbs up to the W4S DAC2. I have the DAC2 DSDse version that has been upgraded from the original DAC2 and it is a great bang for the buck piece.


 

 I have the W4S DAC2 as well.  Haven't really had the urge to do the DSD upgrade.  I may at some point, but I haven't been dipping into DSD files.  
  
 The only thing that has me concerned-- is the sound of the Chord Hugo.  Every time I've auditioned the Hugo (and now the Hugo TT), it nudges me closer to pulling out my wallet.  It may pry loose the DAC2 from my system at some point.


----------



## longbowbbs

reeltime said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Big thumbs up to the W4S DAC2. I have the DAC2 DSDse version that has been upgraded from the original DAC2 and it is a great bang for the buck piece.
> ...


 
 Two successful approaches between W4S and Chord. The upgrade for the DAC2 is not just about DSD. it is a huge improvement for anything that runs through it.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Starting to think about some 300B's for my WA5. Anyone have any recs here? I've read some great things about Emission Labs recently. Trying to find something that isn't at the high end of the scale.... Best bang for buck. Thanks...


----------



## TonyNewman

michaelkeeney said:


> Starting to think about some 300B's for my WA5. Anyone have any recs here? I've read some great things about Emission Labs recently. Trying to find something that isn't at the high end of the scale.... Best bang for buck. Thanks...


 
  
 If anyone does know of a 300B that is great value for money please let me know too. The 300B tubes that sound nice to my ears have all been pricey.
  
 I can recommend 2 very different 300Bs - neither are cheap.
  
 SERPs - great extension up and down. Decent mids. A little dark. A very good all around performer, but it should be for the price.
  
 EATs - this tube doesn't get much love on the forums and reviews - but I think it is stunning in the right circumstances. Detailed, extended (both ways) and very neutral tube. For instrumental and classical types of listening it is excellent - just don't expect much in the way of mid range magic for vocals.


----------



## Khragon

I recommending SERPs too, if you buy them from Sophia Electric with 30 days warranty you can get them for about $800.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I recommending SERPs too, if you buy them from Sophia Electric with 30 days warranty you can get them for about $800.


 
  
 Sophia website still has them going for $1200 USD. At that price the Takatsukis are perhaps a better buy at around $1800 USD - that is the high end of the high end.
  
 The SERPs have proven to be quite robust for me. I have done many dumb things with them (that I will never do again) and they have keep on going without a problem.


----------



## isquirrel

michaelkeeney said:


> Starting to think about some 300B's for my WA5. Anyone have any recs here? I've read some great things about Emission Labs recently. Trying to find something that isn't at the high end of the scale.... Best bang for buck. Thanks...


 

 If you are going to invest in decent 300B's go for the best and get the Takatsuki's. I understand Woo sell them direct now for a reasonable amount compared to importing them yourself.


----------



## Khragon

I wouldn't buy SERPs at $1200, at that price I agree Takatsuki is probably (because I never heard them) a better buy at $1350 USD from price japan.
 Woo sells them for $1620 I believe.
  
 Sophia only sell their 30 days warranty SERP on eBay:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/demo-Sophia-Electric-Royal-Princess-300B-tubes-for-Western-2A3-RCA-845-amplifier-/161723108987?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a772ce7b


----------



## Stereolab42

Office WA5-LE  (upgraded) has arrived. Yes, that's a 5/8" bike lock in the background (and not the only security protecting this baby, not by a long shot... if you can steal this and get away with it you deserve it.) I guess I'm keeping the WA6-SE it replaces as a backup for now; it's a great amp for the price, but doesn't hold a candle to 300B.


----------



## 3083joe

596 and 6c8g ts 
Beautiful combo. 
So detailed 

Thanks everyone for all the input that has lead to this setup. 
❤️


----------



## abvolt

your amp looks great also..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> your amp looks great also..



Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

Just need a new dac. 
More revealing
Pro ject dac rs
Rega dac
Or music Hall 25.3 
Not sure


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> I wouldn't buy SERPs at $1200, at that price I agree Takatsuki is probably (because I never heard them) a better buy at $1350 USD from price japan.
> Woo sells them for $1620 I believe.
> 
> Sophia only sell their 30 days warranty SERP on eBay:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/demo-Sophia-Electric-Royal-Princess-300B-tubes-for-Western-2A3-RCA-845-amplifier-/161723108987?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a772ce7b


 
  
 Thank you - good to know


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> 596 and 6c8g ts
> Beautiful combo.
> So detailed
> 
> ...




Are you pleased with the Aussie guys Tung-Sols? I spoke to him on Thursday. He is out. I purchased his last 3 sets. I think he has two left on eSlay and then that will be it.


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Just need a new dac.
> More revealing
> Pro ject dac rs
> Rega dac
> ...


 

 Well, recognizing that I am plugging gear that I own, but... go with the Rega. Not a detail king, but absolute magic with tubes.
  
 ...
  
*As a side note*, I've been playing with re-clockers: a Bel Canto mLink for USB-to-S/PDIF (from the Mac; had this for awhile) and a Wyred4Sound Remedy for S/PDIF from my spinner or Airport Express (i.e. iPad playback of TIDAL, Spotify, SoundCloud, et al.).
  
 See photos: HDMI out from the Blu-ray player --> HDMI de-embedder (extracts high-res audio from BD, SACD) --> W4S Remedy (digital buffer and re-clocker) --> Rega S/PDIF --> Woo. Sounds as good (almost?) as my Bryston BDP-1 for S/PDIF output.


----------



## Badas

^

I can't work out what you are doing there. Are you extracting SACD from the player and then putting that into your DAC that does't decode DSD?

If so I would be interested in that. I have two blu-Ray players that do SACD but I can't listen to it with my HP's unless I use the ****ty Oppo HA1 DAC. I refuse to do that.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ^
> 
> I can't work out what you are doing there. Are you extracting SACD from the player and then putting that into your DAC that does't decode DSD?
> 
> If so I would be interested in that. I have two blu-Ray players that do SACD but I can't listen to it with my HP's unless I use the ****ty Oppo HA1 DAC. I refuse to do that.


 

 Sorry... my post was probably mis-leading. I set the Blu-ray player to output LPCM, as opposed to DSD.
  
 IIRC, @Badas, you have Oppo spinners and all of the Oppos (and my Pioneer) output SACD as 88.2/24 LPCM (which is correct and good - Oppo has a nice write-up on why they do that, as opposed to 176.4 which Sony and Yamaha players will output). For Blu-ray audio or DVD-Audio, it's whatever the source material is sampled at - it's unchanged. Copyright BS will prevent the original content from being output from anything but HDMI (i.e. it requires an HDCP handshake and de-crypting).
  
 The challenge is that most BDPs will not output anything but 44.1/48-16 from the S/PDIF port, if anything comes out at all (e.g. SACD).
  
 So, the KanexPro box passes through the HDCP handshake from my attached monitor/AVR to "authorize the player" and then will "de-embed" the audio streams, in parallel, and re-direct via S/PDIF to your DAC of choice.
  
 Finally, I decided to route the S/PDIF out to the Remedy to clean-up and re-clock any jitter introduced by the playback chain; then out to the Rega's S/PDIF input.
  
 It's scary how clean this all sounds...


----------



## michaelkeeney

3083joe said:


> Just need a new dac.
> More revealing
> Pro ject dac rs
> Rega dac
> ...


 
 I love my Rega…


----------



## michaelkeeney

khragon said:


> I wouldn't buy SERPs at $1200, at that price I agree Takatsuki is probably (because I never heard them) a better buy at $1350 USD from price japan.
> Woo sells them for $1620 I believe.
> 
> Sophia only sell their 30 days warranty SERP on eBay:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/demo-Sophia-Electric-Royal-Princess-300B-tubes-for-Western-2A3-RCA-845-amplifier-/161723108987?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a772ce7b


 
  
 Thanks for the link, and the input, everyone.  And sorry for the double post.  Got sidetracked and didn't multi quote. Still not sure what I'm going to do.  Was hoping I'd find something for a bit cheaper tbh, but I'm greener than grass at this, so it's only naiveté on my part.  If I'm going to spend more than I want, I'm going to get something that I'll absolutely love.  I think for the time being I'm still waiting.


----------



## reeltime

michaelkeeney said:


> Starting to think about some 300B's for my WA5. Anyone have any recs here? I've read some great things about Emission Labs recently. Trying to find something that isn't at the high end of the scale.... Best bang for buck. Thanks...


 

 I'm a fan of the EMLs.  I had the Mesh 300B and the Mesh 5U4G for several years.  They served me well until I moved up to the Elrogs.  I seem to have one of the few pairs that haven't had any trouble with Elrogs, and they sound terrific.  The EMLs have a spectacular soundstage and mids and highs are terrific, the only knock?  Not the best or deepest bass experience.  Otherwise, they're terrific tubes, and frankly, a bargain compared to some of the others in their class.
  
 Someday I'm going to try the Taks.  They're a bit of a pain to order, though, and I haven't found a way to order the Tak 274B on their own, you can only get them along with the 300B, which is roughly a $3000 purchase all together.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Are you pleased with the Aussie guys Tung-Sols? I spoke to him on Thursday. He is out. I purchased his last 3 sets. I think he has two left on eSlay and then that will be it.



Yes. I love them. 
Better to my ears than the nu. Both 6f8 and 6c8. With my paradises dac and 596 nu was a little muddy. Ts with everything else brought out lots of detail. Might have to pick up a backup set of the ts


----------



## 3083joe

michaelkeeney said:


> I love my Rega…



Which version you have? Reg or r


----------



## musicman59

reeltime said:


> I'm a fan of the EMLs.  I had the Mesh 300B and the Mesh 5U4G for several years.  They served me well until I moved up to the Elrogs.  I seem to have one of the few pairs that haven't had any trouble with Elrogs, and they sound terrific.  The EMLs have a spectacular soundstage and mids and highs are terrific, the only knock?  Not the best or deepest bass experience.  Otherwise, they're terrific tubes, and frankly, a bargain compared to some of the others in their class.
> 
> Someday I'm going to try the Taks.  They're a bit of a pain to order, though, and I haven't found a way to order the Tak 274B on their own, you can only get them along with the 300B, which is roughly a $3000 purchase all together.




My Elrog have to failed either (knock on wood!!) .


----------



## michaelkeeney

3083joe said:


> Which version you have? Reg or r




Reg. I'm all cd and vinyl, so the whole usb doesn't really matter.


----------



## scalpel

No more DACT CT2 balanced stereo stepped attenuator on WA22 produced lately? This is the WA22 I received 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Stereolab42

scalpel said:


> No more DACT CT2 balanced stereo stepped attenuator on WA22 produced lately? This is the WA22 I received 2 weeks ago.


 
  
 Great news, that was one of the things holding back the WA22. It makes no sense to use a stepped attenuator with balanced inputs because stray DC that would otherwise be cancelled out causes noise during steps.


----------



## abvolt

That's good to know *Stereolab42* since I've also only owned my wa22 for about 5 weeks, I get no noise whatsoever cool thanks..


----------



## dahan

scalpel said:


> No more DACT CT2 balanced stereo stepped attenuator on WA22 produced lately? This is the WA22 I received 2 weeks ago.


 
 I wish my WA22 didn't come with the stepped attenuator. Sometimes it's hard to hit the sweet spot with stepped attenuator.


----------



## 2359glenn

stereolab42 said:


> scalpel said:
> 
> 
> > No more DACT CT2 balanced stereo stepped attenuator on WA22 produced lately? This is the WA22 I received 2 weeks ago.
> ...


 

 Were is the stray DC coming from the DAC??


----------



## Stereolab42

2359glenn said:


> Were is the stray DC coming from the DAC??


 
  
 Yup. They explain it with "It is possible however to see more significant DC offset with reference to ground. Different DAC chips produce different offset." Completely harmeless normally because it gets cancelled out when one signal gets inverted and added to the other, but with the volume control operating on the signals before that stage, you get noise as the DC is cut in and cut out between steps.


----------



## 2359glenn

stereolab42 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Were is the stray DC coming from the DAC??
> ...


 

 DC offset is completely unacceptable what if it was plugged into a direct coupled SS amp. It would amplify
 the DC and blow the speakers.
 If DAC manufacture cant design a circuit without DC offset they should have output capacitors to block the DC.   
 The amp manufacture has to change there product to compensate for poor design on the part of the DAC company's What.


----------



## Stereolab42

2359glenn said:


> DC offset is completely unacceptable what if it was plugged into a direct coupled SS amp. It would amplify
> the DC and blow the speakers.
> If DAC manufacture cant design a circuit without DC offset they should have output capacitors to block the DC.
> The amp manufacture has to change there product to compensate for poor design on the part of the DAC company's What.


 
  
 It's only on the balanced outputs and only on hot wire wrt ground and cold wire wrt ground, so therefore shouldn't the DC cancel out (just like any other noise) during the inversion and addition process (which is before amplification)?


----------



## 3083joe

Quick listen tonight 
596 rectifier - excellent (slightly warm/muddy)
6f8g nu - seem muddy w/596 combo
6f8g ts - smooth more refined airy w/596 combo
6sn7 nu - even smoother. Detail upon detail. Feel like I'm in the room with bad as they are recording. Hear chairs squeaking and all. W/596 combo. 
Brimar 5z4g will be here tomorrow.(hopefully) Look forward to trying it with the same drivers. 
Have a great evening.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> 596 rectifier - excellent (slightly warm/muddy)
> 6f8g nu - seem muddy w/596 combo


 
 ???


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> ???



The combo for me is very very warm. Missing in detail. 
The ts with the 596 is sublime. Love it.


----------



## 2359glenn

stereolab42 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Were is the stray DC coming from the DAC??
> ...


 

 The DC offset is not going to get through the coupling caps that are blocking DC anyway. And defiantly not getting through the output transformers.
 This can screw up the bias on the 6SN7. It just not supposed to be there don't know how DAC company's think this is acceptable.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> Office WA5-LE  (upgraded) has arrived. Yes, that's a 5/8" bike lock in the background (and not the only security protecting this baby, not by a long shot... if you can steal this and get away with it you deserve it.) I guess I'm keeping the WA6-SE it replaces as a backup for now; it's a great amp for the price, but doesn't hold a candle to 300B.




Nice, are those RCA black glass I can see?


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> Quick listen tonight
> 596 rectifier - excellent (slightly warm/muddy)
> 6f8g nu - seem muddy w/596 combo
> 6f8g ts - smooth more refined airy w/596 combo
> ...


 
 I am glad you are liking the 596. I normally run them with TS 6F8G round plates.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> I am glad you are liking the 596. I normally run them with TS 6F8G round plates.


 

 The TS 6f8g are nice! enjoy them also


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> Nice, are those RCA black glass I can see?


 
  
 Yup, or I guess grey-glass is more accurate. WWII vintage, plus Brimars and SERPs. A warmer setup. When I get into a "I want more detail" mood I will throw on one of my various Sylvanias (brown-base 6SN7s or the VT-99s). Or perhaps a T-S VT-99, or Ken-Rad, or some Soviet tubes (Melz on the way), or...


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Yup, or I guess grey-glass is more accurate. WWII vintage, plus Brimars and SERPs. A warmer setup. When I get into a "I want more detail" mood I will throw on one of my various Sylvanias (brown-base 6SN7s or the VT-99s). Or perhaps a T-S VT-99, or Ken-Rad, or some Soviet tubes (Melz on the way), or...


 
  
 Have you tried running TS RP (or NU) drivers?
  
 I am currently running Brimars + SERPs + TS RP (6SL7)s. Sound is excellent from my WA5.


----------



## 3083joe

stereolab42 said:


> Yup, or I guess grey-glass is more accurate. WWII vintage, plus Brimars and SERPs. A warmer setup. When I get into a "I want more detail" mood I will throw on one of my various Sylvanias (brown-base 6SN7s or the VT-99s). Or perhaps a T-S VT-99, or Ken-Rad, or some Soviet tubes (Melz on the way), or...



Might get a set of brown base sylvanias


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Have you tried running TS RP (or NU) drivers?
> 
> I am currently running Brimars + SERPs + TS RP (6SL7)s. Sound is excellent from my WA5.


 
  
 NU 6F8G doesn't work on the WA5. I have one pair of TS RP VT-99s but they sound just like the cheaper FP, of which I have a bunch more. TS RP 6SN7s are out of consideration due to price (and I'm not sold on it being a good idea to run 6SL7s/6C8Gs on a WA5).


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> NU 6F8G doesn't work on the WA5. I have one pair of TS RP VT-99s but they sound just like the cheaper FP, of which I have a bunch more. TS RP 6SN7s are out of consideration due to price (and I'm not sold on it being a good idea to run 6SL7s/6C8Gs on a WA5).


 
  
 6C8G NUs and TS RPs work great in my WA5. Some folks have had issues with the WA5-LE with 6C8Gs, so I understand your caution.


----------



## musicman59

Just tried a pair of TS BG/RP 6SL7 in my WA5-LE last night. They worked fine and sounded really good but the gain is lower than the 6SN7 or 6F8G versions so I had to turn up the volume knob a little more to obtain the same output level.


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> Might get a set of brown base sylvanias


 
 I really like the Short Glass/ChromeTop/Brown Base 6SN7WGT


----------



## jhljhl

Used a pair of Phillips 6dj8 using a pair of c6g7 adapters at Gibosi's suggestion below in the dubstep girl rectifier post which I copy/paste below.  The bass drums are more accoustic and there is less slam as the sound is over all leaner I like it for a change in the WA22.  I have also tried 6cg7 at Seamaster's suggestion - I like the rca blackplates.  I still need to acquire the ecc804 he suggested.  Thanks to both members for their suggestions.
  
  
 Originally Posted by *gibosi* 


  
  
 Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
  
 ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
  
 E80CC/6085 and 13D3 (These require a 12AU7 pin-adapter)
  
 And each of the following require different pin-adapters
  
 E182CC/7119 and 5687
 ECC40
 6463
 2C51
  
 Happy rolling!


----------



## michaelkeeney

musicman59 said:


> Just tried a pair of TS BG/RP 6SL7 in my WA5-LE last night. They worked fine and sounded really good but the gain is lower than the 6SN7 or 6F8G versions so I had to turn up the volume knob a little more to obtain the same output level.




I've got those tubes running in my WA5 right now and noticed the same loss of volume. Sounds amazing, though.


----------



## 3083joe

good morning 
 Are the 6SL7s interchangeable the 6SN7s in wa6


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> good morning
> Are the 6SL7s interchangeable the 6SN7s in wa6




Yip. 

You need that adapter to 6SN7 tho.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Yip.
> 
> You need that adapter to 6SN7 tho.



I got it. That's. They seem a little cheaper.


----------



## 3083joe

Brimar 5z4 with ts 6c8 is sounding so clean.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Brimar 5z4 with ts 6c8 is sounding so clean.


 

 You have taken my combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 You can see the burn marks on the top of my 5Z4. I've been using it sooooooo much.


----------



## abvolt

I agree it's a great combo..


----------



## Badas

Speaking of TS RP 6C8G. I recieved my last 3 sets from the Aussie supplier today. I now have 14 sets. It should keep me out of trouble. If I get desperate latter in life I have 2 sets of NU 6F8g also.

I also asked for a sample of the GE 6AS7g power tube. The nice guy sent me 4 for free. 



I love how the tubes were in bags. It looks like cocain bags. To us tube guys it might as well be.


----------



## abvolt

Wow 14 sets sure should keep you going for a very long time awesome, I've never tried the GE 6as7g's have you heard them or anything about them ?


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Wow 14 sets sure should keep you going for a very long time awesome, I've never tried the GE 6as7g's have you heard them or anything about them ?




I have heard the GE6080 and the 6AS7g is very similar internally. The 6080 is a nice polite tube. It does nothing wrong and a lot right. Not top tier but nice. Sometimes putting a similar tube in a different bottle has a different sound. So I want to try it.


----------



## Badas

Time to burn some tubes. Rolled in the GE 6AS7g's. So far it is ticking a lot of boxes. Early days tho.

My favorite New Zealand artist Gin Wigmore released a new album today. You go girl. Your first two albums were a knock out. Way better than the other Kiwi girl. Lorde. Let's see if she can make it 3 from 3.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ...
> 
> Time to burn some tubes. *Rolled in the GE 6AS7g's*. So far it is ticking a lot of boxes. Early days tho.
> 
> My favorite New Zealand artist Gin Wigmore released a new album today. You go girl. Your first two albums were a knock out. Way better than the other Kiwi girl. Lorde. Let's see if she can make it 3 from 3.


 
  
 I have RCA, Sovtek and Tung-Sol versions of the 6AS7g - the TS version is nice (I've left it in for a while now), but I was not pleased with the Sovtek version (lifeless). I only briefly tried the RCA version (to make sure they worked).
  
 I will be curious to read your lasting impressions of the GE tube.


----------



## 3083joe

Anyone tried these U52s


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I have RCA, Sovtek and Tung-Sol versions of the 6AS7g - the TS version is nice (I've left it in for a while now), but I was not pleased with the Sovtek version (lifeless). I only briefly tried the RCA version (to make sure they worked).
> 
> I will be curious to read your lasting impressions of the GE tube.




I have those 3 tubes. The TS is the best out of those tubes. By a lot. Yes the Sovtek sounds veiled. 

I also have various versions of the RCA 6AS7g labeled Sylvania, Raytheon and even a TS. They all sound the same as the RCA.

Then I have the TS 7236, Bendix 6080 graphite plates, RCA 6080, Sylvania 6080 and Mullard 6080. The Mullard is the best, however very noisy in the WA22.

So far the GE is very nice. Treble is sweet, rendered nicely. No detail loss. Mid-range is healthy and warm. Soundstage is up with the best. I haven't tested bass yet. It is top notch in noise level. Extremely low to the point it is 110% quiet.


----------



## Krutsch

^^ I love the TS 7236, as well. I keep reading about the Bendix 6080 but your comments on the Mullard may get me to take a look.
  
 I have too many tubes as it is (huh?) and I need to start hoarding funds for my next Woo and take a break from tubes (you know, until the next Woo arrives).
  
 Thanks for the notes on the GE.


----------



## whirlwind

Badas, are those bendix 6080's slotted?


----------



## Badas

whirlwind said:


> Badas, are those bendix 6080's slotted?




I have a set of both.

I think the GE 6080 is a bit lean on bass. Not entirely sure yet. I'm going to test shortly. A bit of Pearl Jam should do the trick. If it has nice bass then I would say it is comparable with the Mullard. Which is superb.


----------



## abvolt

I.ve been  selling most of my ge 6080's a little to ordinary, plain sounding so far for me it's the mullard 6080 I do have some rca early 50's 6as7's that are very sweet. Also a pair of jan 5998a's that are better then I'd thought they'd be just a little too heavy in bass but lots of gain with them..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I.ve been  selling most of my ge 6080's a little to [COLOR=222222]ordinary, plain sounding so far for me it's the mullard 6080 I do have some rca early 50's 6as7's that are very sweet. Also a pair of jan 5998a's that are better then I'd thought they'd be just a little too heavy in bass but lots of gain with them..[/COLOR]




I agree the GE 6080 with the metal base is ordinary sounding. I'm trying the black base with a more bottle shape to it. I must apologise I wrote GE 6080 above. The one I'm trailing is marked GE6AS7g. It is a more 6080 shape tho. I've seen it labeled 6080, 6AS7g and 5998. So far it is nice. I think it is a tad lean on bass tho. I supose you can't have it all. :rolleyes:



Edit: Plenty of clean bass.  This is proving to be a very nice tube. A slight tad leaner than the Mullard. That is a good think as I'm using the classic LCD3's which could use a bit of lean. I will continue testing over the next week and post impressions in the 6AS7g thread. I think I will stock up on these.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Speaking of TS RP 6C8G. I recieved my last 3 sets from the Aussie supplier today. I now have 14 sets. It should keep me out of trouble. If I get desperate latter in life I have 2 sets of NU 6F8g also.
> 
> I also asked for a sample of the GE 6AS7g power tube. The nice guy sent me 4 for free.
> 
> ...



Evening. 
What rectifiers are you using. 
Did you say brimar? Or Mullard? And which numbers?
Tia


----------



## abvolt

I see now I have two pair of those I still believe that the early rca's sound better, how about the thomsom-csf 6080's I've not heard them..


----------



## 3083joe

All I can say is I have purchased a pro-ject dac box Rs and it is a total beast. I am soooooo impressed by the improvement! Woo and the dac are absolute perfect!


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> I supose you can't have it all.


 
 Oh, I don't know... I think you *can* have it all


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Evening.
> What rectifiers are you using.
> Did you say brimar? Or Mullard? And which numbers?
> Tia




I have the Brimar 5Z4GY. 14 of them. Mullard GZ32. 6 of them. I far prefer the Brimar. 




abvolt said:


> I see now I have two pair of those I still believe that the early rca's sound better, how about the thomsom-csf 6080's I've not heard them..




I haven't tried either. I really should. 

So far I like the GE. I think it is working well with the darker classic LCD3. The Mullard can get a little too dark with my HP.




3083joe said:


> All I can say is I have purchased a pro-ject dac box Rs and it is a total beast. I am soooooo impressed by the improvement! Woo and the dac are absolute perfect!




I don't know that DAC. I will look it up.




krutsch said:


> Oh, I don't know... I think you *can* have it all




I want to keep my body parts. I don't want to sell them for tubes.  are they yours?


----------



## 3083joe

badas 
http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=dacboxrs
They messed up and sent this tho. 
http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=preboxrsdigital&cat=source&lang=en
Same just with a preamp oh and 32bit support


----------



## Badas

^

Cool.


----------



## 3083joe

Nice just scored a set of 6f8g ts on eBay. 
And the nu 5u4 is great. Close to the brimar imo


----------



## abvolt

Oh yeah both nice sounding tubes..


----------



## 3083joe

Got my first Mullard Tube 
 Z34 f31 looking forward to hearing it tonight


----------



## abvolt

cool that should sound great i'm a big mullard fan myself..


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Nice.


----------



## magiccabbage

Hey 
  
 Can anyone here tell me how much of an improvement the SERP 300b's are over the EML mesh? In the Wa5 of course? 
  
 Paddy


----------



## Stereolab42

magiccabbage said:


> Hey
> 
> Can anyone here tell me how much of an improvement the SERP 300b's are over the EML mesh? In the Wa5 of course?
> 
> Paddy


 
  
 I have both... it's not really "better" but "different". A bit more solid and detailed, the EML is a bit darker and smoother.


----------



## Audiogalore

stereolab42 said:


> I have both... it's not really "better" but "different". A bit more solid and detailed, the EML is a bit darker and smoother.


 
 Another alternative would be the Treasures!


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Speaking of TS RP 6C8G. I recieved my last 3 sets from the Aussie supplier today. I now have 14 sets. It should keep me out of trouble. If I get desperate latter in life I have 2 sets of NU 6F8g also.
> 
> I also asked for a sample of the GE 6AS7g power tube. The nice guy sent me 4 for free.
> 
> ...


 

 Dono, you are as bad as me, this is all Tony's fault, he's a bad influence, turned us all into Tube addicts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just been going through my collection, it is getting silly, I have 16 sets of TSRP 6SN7's, all in great condition too with boxes etc, got to start selling these off.


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> Dono, you are as bad as me, this is all Tony's fault, he's a bad influence, turned us all into Tube addicts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well if you want to get rid of a set let me know, I have ZERO...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 TIA


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> Hey
> 
> Can anyone here tell me how much of an improvement the SERP 300b's are over the EML mesh? In the Wa5 of course?
> 
> Paddy


 

 I find them quite different, the SERP's have probably the most bottom end out of the 300B's I have heard. They are as Stereolab says a bit dark, my concern is the failure rate, I don't know anyone who has not had problems with them. 
  
 BTW anyone heard whats going on with the Elrog saga. I have called the importer a few times - no answer. I have a brand new set that haven;t even come out of the shipping wrapper that I don't want to use if they have a new/improved version out.
  
 I have found my final destination (for now) with the Taks (300B & 274B) and the RCA Black Plates, Black Glass. Haven't rolled any tubes for a couple of months.


----------



## isquirrel

3083joe said:


> Well if you want to get rid of a set let me know, I have ZERO......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Happy to help, send me a PM, I happy for them to go off at whatever they cost me. I have made a decision to go into a 2 channel system, I was thinking I would have to sell my Head-Fi gear but really don't want to do that unless I absolutely have to. Certainly have to sell off any excess stuff though. Forgot how expensive 2 channel is.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Dono, you are as bad as me, this is all Tony's fault, he's a bad influence, turned us all into Tube addicts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's all part of my master plan for world domination via tube addiction...


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I find them quite different, the SERP's have probably the most bottom end out of the 300B's I have heard. They are as Stereolab says a bit dark, my concern is the failure rate, I don't know anyone who has not had problems with them. ...


 
  
 My SERPs have been rock solid for about 18 months despite me being a bit of a neanderthal with them on a few occasions. I'm much more careful with them now, but they took a bit of abuse early on and haven't missed a beat.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> My SERPs have been rock solid for about 18 months despite me being a bit of a neanderthal with them on a few occasions. I'm much more careful with them now, but they took a bit of abuse early on and haven't missed a beat.


 

 Well then you seem a dead cert for success for World Domination, anyway I thought you were leaving tube world with your Moon Neo 430 or have you found a way to fit tubes to it?
  
 You should be receiving your Tak's soon, looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Well then you seem a dead cert for success for World Domination, anyway I thought you were leaving tube world with your Moon Neo 430 or have you found a way to fit tubes to it?
> 
> You should be receiving your Tak's soon, looking forward to your impressions.


 
  
 I have a bit of a hate/love/hate/hate/love/hate thing with tubes, depending on tube and amp failures. Call me fickle.
  
 Modded HD800 on the WA5 with SERPs / TS RP / Brimars has me feeling the love once more. Taks might push me over the edge to full blown tube lust frenzy.
  
 Badas helped me see/hear that there are some things that tubes just do better than even a very good SS amp like the 430HA. It's nice to have both to play with.
  
 Are you absolutely certain you won't want to restart the HeadFi obsession later on? 2 Channel is great, but there is something about the intimacy of headphones that I would miss, even with a fantastic 2 channel system.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> I find them quite different, the SERP's have probably the most bottom end out of the 300B's I have heard. They are as Stereolab says a bit dark, my concern is the failure rate, I don't know anyone who has not had problems with them.
> 
> BTW anyone heard whats going on with the Elrog saga. I have called the importer a few times - no answer. I have a brand new set that haven;t even come out of the shipping wrapper that I don't want to use if they have a new/improved version out.
> 
> I have found my final destination (for now) with the Taks (300B & 274B) and the RCA Black Plates, Black Glass. Haven't rolled any tubes for a couple of months.


 
 Have to heard anything. I have no problems with my pair that I bought 3-4 months ago. But I am thinking on selling them and also my EAT plus some others (ECC32 Mullard and WE274B) to raise money for a Tak system (300B & 274B).


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Are you absolutely certain you won't want to restart the HeadFi obsession later on? 2 Channel is great, but there is something about the intimacy of headphones that I would miss, even with a fantastic 2 channel system.


 
  
 No doubt about the intimacy of Head-Fi it offers a different perspective, I get why some people do not like it at all, I don't understand why some 2 channel people who are otherwise friendly look down their nose at us, I can only assume usually ask the question have they ever heard a nice headphone system, mostly they haven't but there are some who just do not enjoy the experience. Fair enough.
  
 On my recent trip to Sydney to hear a very decent 2 channel system I was looking for a couple of things, one was what was the musical enjoyment factor like? Secondly, what was the level of performance. The experience was illuminating as there were some factors I enjoyed more, the only thing that I can't do is be up in the middle of the night and listen to music at any volume. However in terms of information retrieval and pure enjoyment factor it was great, not being tied to one spot and the big one be able to listen and share the experience with my partner and friends.
  
 Fririce0003 is going to the same dealer in Sydney with me next week, given the gap in our ages but the similarity in our like for the same kind of sound it will be very interesting to see his reaction. I believe this will be his 1st time hearing a 2 channel system that is comparable SQ wise to his Head-fi setup. As this is Head-Fi I haven't posted any photos but can do if people are interested. As I said earlier I might need to pare back my Head-Fi system (mainly freeing up $ in tubes stocks, headphones I don't use etc) but I really want to keep on listening to Headphones.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> It's all part of my master plan for world domination via tube addiction...


 
  
 It's working. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only guess how many tubes I have now. A bit over 200 I think. Not bad for 6 months work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





isquirrel said:


> No doubt about the intimacy of Head-Fi it offers a different perspective, I get why some people do not like it at all, I don't understand why some 2 channel people who are otherwise friendly look down their nose at us, I can only assume usually ask the question have they ever heard a nice headphone system, mostly they haven't but there are some who just do not enjoy the experience. Fair enough.
> 
> On my recent trip to Sydney to hear a very decent 2 channel system I was looking for a couple of things, one was what was the musical enjoyment factor like? Secondly, what was the level of performance. The experience was illuminating as there were some factors I enjoyed more, the only thing that I can't do is be up in the middle of the night and listen to music at any volume. However in terms of information retrieval and pure enjoyment factor it was great, not being tied to one spot and the big one be able to listen and share the experience with my partner and friends.
> 
> Fririce0003 is going to the same dealer in Sydney with me next week, given the gap in our ages but the similarity in our like for the same kind of sound it will be very interesting to see his reaction. I believe this will be his 1st time hearing a 2 channel system that is comparable SQ wise to his Head-fi setup. As this is Head-Fi I haven't posted any photos but can do if people are interested. As I said earlier I might need to pare back my Head-Fi system (mainly freeing up $ in tubes stocks, headphones I don't use etc) but I really want to keep on listening to Headphones.


 
  
 Yes please on pics. I just love looking at the engineering and design.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ...
> Yes please on pics. I just love looking at the engineering and design.


 
  
 +1. UltraFi pics are always welcome.


----------



## isquirrel

Okay I will put a Post of my recent trip, spending most of next week there auditioning  through our shortlist of equipment, my lovely woman has spent hours picking our her favourites. Very lucky, she has been busy buying records this week.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Okay I will put a Post of my recent trip, spending most of next week there auditioning  through our shortlist of equipment, my lovely woman has spent hours picking our her favourites. Very lucky, she has been busy buying records this week.


 
  
 That will be great. Pics plus observations.
  
 Your women is a keeper.
  
 With mine I hint I want some album for my birthday. Hint after hint. After my birthday I go and buy the album.


----------



## isquirrel

So I went to Sydney,
  
 I knew the speakers I wanted to hear which were the Wilson Alexia's, so after I set them up got down to some serious listening, on another note had no idea how good Roon is versus Audirvana on my Mac it sounded considerably better.
  
 1st up was the D'Agostino Momentum Intergrated amp. Very surprised how far SS has come, I found that for my tastes (bearing in mind that we all tube lovers on this forum) it was the closest thing I have heard to tubes yet. DAC was the Gryphon Kalliope, as I have not heard this yet in my system I could not judge how much of the sound was attributable to this, I suspect a fair bit.
  

  

  

  


 Just loved the volume control, had to keep touching it. Also had the dCS full stack, looks a nightmare to hook up, I understand it is quite difficult to get the right setting as there are so many variations available.
  

  


 Will post some impressions and more photos in an hour or so.


----------



## isquirrel

BTW the map has a headphone output at the rear, must qualify for one of the most serious headphones amps out there.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is a beautiful amp. One of the most attractive bits of audio gear I have ever seen.
  
 And great pics - thanks for sharing.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Hubba, hubba, hubba. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That is some serious engineering on that amp. Look at that plate on top. How thick is that grill? Amazing.


----------



## pervysage

Currently looking at Woo amps again for my beloved TH900. I used to have the WA7 before and it was fantastic with the TH900 (ended up selling it though because at the time I just was not using it much and needed to free up some funds. However, now I am in a much better place financially and am craving for a good amp to pair with my TH900.
  
 So far on my list of possible choices is a WA7TP (previously I had just the WA7 without the tube power supply upgrade), the WA6 and the WA6SE. Anyone want to comment on how the WA7TP and WA6/WA6SE compare?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

pervysage said:


> Currently looking at Woo amps again for my beloved TH900. I used to have the WA7 before and it was fantastic with the TH900 (ended up selling it though because at the time I just was not using it much and needed to free up some funds. However, now I am in a much better place financially and am craving for a good amp to pair with my TH900.
> 
> So far on my list of possible choices is a WA7TP (previously I had just the WA7 without the tube power supply upgrade), the WA6 and the WA6SE. Anyone want to comment on how the WA7TP and WA6/WA6SE compare?


 
  
 WA7+WA7tp or WA22 would be my personal recommendations.


----------



## Khragon

You know you want a WA5, which I conveniently have for sale.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> You know you want a WA5, which I conveniently have for sale.


 
  
 Mmmmmmm. WA5. If only nice 300B tubes weren't so crazy expensive...


----------



## Badas

pervysage said:


> Currently looking at Woo amps again for my beloved TH900. I used to have the WA7 before and it was fantastic with the TH900 (ended up selling it though because at the time I just was not using it much and needed to free up some funds. However, now I am in a much better place financially and am craving for a good amp to pair with my TH900.
> 
> So far on my list of possible choices is a WA7TP (previously I had just the WA7 without the tube power supply upgrade), the WA6 and the WA6SE. Anyone want to comment on how the WA7TP and WA6/WA6SE compare?


 
  
 I don't know much about the TH900. So I looked it up. According to the specs it needs to be driven well.
  
 It was interesting I didn't think the WA7 would power them well, however not only will it power it well it should do better than the WA6.
 I think you could find the WA6 a little underpowered.
 The WA7 doesn't have as many tube rolling options however there is a nice thread on the topic.
  
 WA2 will be underpowered.
 WA22 is what I own but it could be a bit pricey. Not much difference between the Duo WA7 combo tho. Lots of tube rolling options.
  
 WA6SE would be my choice. Plenty of power and more tube rolling fun.


----------



## TonyNewman

WA6 sounds great, but it is not a powerhouse. Mine can _*just *_power my HD600s adequately.
  
 If the TH900 needs the juice a higher powered amp would be a better choice.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> I don't know much about the TH900. So I looked it up. According to the specs it needs to be driven well.
> 
> *WA2 will be underpowered.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 They are low impedance cans (25-ohm, similar to my 32-ohm Grados) and the OTL models (WA2/WA3) will clip at volume.


----------



## magiccabbage

does anyone know if the Woo audio transport can play hi res cds.?? like HD tracks cds?


----------



## ru4music

magiccabbage said:


> does anyone know if the Woo audio transport can play hi res cds.?? like HD tracks cds?


 
 Many reviews and the Woo's owners manual states only CDDA (Compact Disc Digital Audio (16-Bit/44.1kHz); aka Redbook) for the WTP1 transport:
  
 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEQQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wooaudio.com%2Fmanuals%2FWTP1_WDS1_Owners_Manual.pdf&ei=_taVVcKdM8SiyASh9p2ABA&usg=AFQjCNGXpIbpq3Clpmp7IDmN_zeuF99Ruw&bvm=bv.96952980,d.aWw&cad=rja
  
 If you're referring to  HDCD, I don't believe so since HDCD is a proprietary Microsoft format.  Which is a bummer!  I have support for Redbook, HDCD, and 24-Bit/ 96kHZ up-sampling in my modified Shangling T-100C CD player.  These formats work very well when implemented correctly.


----------



## JamesBr

magiccabbage said:


> does anyone know if the Woo audio transport can play hi res cds.?? like HD tracks cds?


 
  
 I want to say it does but I am not 100% sure!


----------



## Audiogalore

tonynewman said:


> Mmmmmmm. WA5. If only nice 300B tubes weren't so crazy expensive...


 
 Relevant to what; are we comparing apples for oranges? A properly made 300B amp manufactured by high end company for loudspeaker equivalent and to the quality of the Woo WA5 would cost 3 to 4 times the cost. The Woo WA5 is actually a steal for this custom built point to point wired master piece!


----------



## Audiogalore

The tubes in most cases aren't vintage and are easy to come by and will last for ever


----------



## 3083joe

@isquirrel
 PM Sent


----------



## Stereolab42

I need to understand better exactly what the high and low impedance jacks do on a Woo amp. Is it correct to say that the only technical difference is that each jack is tapped from a different spot in the secondary windings of the output transformers? Which means that the high jack will deliver a higher voltage but with a lower maximum current? This explains why the high jack produces the same volume at a lower setting on the volume knob than the low jack. Now assuming I have headphones I can drive to my preferred volume perfectly well on either jack, is there any technical reason why there would be a SQ difference?
  
 Let me partially answer that... I assume output impedance (http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html) as presented to the headphones is also changed by where you take the tap? While output impedance supposedly has big effect on freq response for dynamic drivers, it doesn't affect planar drivers, right?


----------



## isquirrel

magiccabbage said:


> does anyone know if the Woo audio transport can play hi res cds.?? like HD tracks cds?


 

 Best person to answer that is Fririce0003 he has one.


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> does anyone know if the Woo audio transport can play hi res cds.?? like HD tracks cds?




What is an HD Tracks cd? Flac files downloaded from them burned to disc?


----------



## Audiogalore

stereolab42 said:


> I need to understand better exactly what the high and low impedance jacks do on a Woo amp. Is it correct to say that the only technical difference is that each jack is tapped from a different spot in the secondary windings of the output transformers? Which means that the high jack will deliver a higher voltage but with a lower maximum current? This explains why the high jack produces the same volume at a lower setting on the volume knob than the low jack. Now assuming I have headphones I can drive to my preferred volume perfectly well on either jack, is there any technical reason why there would be a SQ difference?
> 
> Let me partially answer that... I assume output impedance (http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html) as presented to the headphones is also changed by where you take the tap? While output impedance supposedly has big effect on freq response for dynamic drivers, it doesn't affect planar drivers, right?


 
 All that you have mentioned is correct. 
  
 1) Selected impedance is looking at the secondary winding of the output transformer with the the matched signal path load resistor in the circuit design.
  
 2) Dynamic driver has a coil in the diaphram and the coil driver become part of inductive LC network which act as a tank circuit that is constantly pulsing as a frequency generator which requires the right load impedance to produce and not over current the circuit. That is why it is important to match the right load constant or gain.
  
 Planar mechanically resonant the frequency across the entire grid like tuning fork very fast and does not pulse. This is why you hear people say in theory the Planar is quick thru the music passage. Same principal with a Electrostat ribbon.


----------



## 3083joe

After several weeks on listen I have to say the brimar 5z4 is one of the best rectifiers out there to my ears. Love it. U52 brimar is next.


----------



## devilboy

3083joe said:


> After several weeks on listen I have to say the brimar 5z4 is one of the best rectifiers out there to my ears. Love it. U52 brimar is next.


How available and what am i looking at regarding cost? Roughly.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> How available and what am i looking at regarding cost? Roughly.



$45 or so 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=331561896621&globalID=EBAY-US 
U52 is way higher. Like 200ish


----------



## devilboy

Thanks. 
I'm currently running a pair of Mullard EZ80 in my WA2 . I'm new to tube rolling my Woo so I don't want to sound too dumb here but, how much of an improvement would I get going to that brimar (if any)? In your experience.


----------



## Fririce0003

magiccabbage said:


> does anyone know if the Woo audio transport can play hi res cds.?? like HD tracks cds?




Bit of a late reply, been flat out with work lately. But the WTP is limited to standard redbook cd's. Nice, full and musical with them though


----------



## MIKELAP

devilboy said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > After several weeks on listen I have to say the brimar 5z4 is one of the best rectifiers out there to my ears. Love it. U52 brimar is next.
> ...


 
                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
 Langrex has those also for around $29.00 U.S.


----------



## abvolt

I've got 4 of those really nice sounding tubes for the price..


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
> 
> Langrex has those also for around $29.00 U.S.



Very nice. 
Think I do like the black base regular 5z4g (no y) a little better tho


----------



## abvolt

There are differences ? guess I'd better check one of those out..


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
> ...


 

 They had black base also just ask. but yours are different maybe older


----------



## ru4music

devilboy said:


> Thanks.
> I'm currently running a pair of Mullard EZ80 in my WA2 . I'm new to tube rolling my Woo so I don't want to sound too dumb here but, how much of an improvement would I get going to that brimar (if any)? In your experience.


 
 EZ80 tube sonic comparison (mid way down the page) from lukaskite:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2/510


----------



## Badas

Brimar 5Z4GY

I have tried brown and black base. Grey and black plates. They all sounded the same to my ears.

I ended up just stocking up on the brown base. I like its looks a little better.

My Woo got a buddy yesterday. I added a TT to the system. Fun.

I can't wait for the old school TT and tubes session.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> My Woo got a buddy yesterday. I added a TT to the system. Fun.


 
  
 Oh, very nice!
  
 I have been re-arranging / re-org'ing gear to make room for my 1984 Thorens TT (reconditioning with a new cart and drive belt).
  
 But looking at these new TTs, I wonder if I should skip that and get something new.
  
 Congrats and can't wait to hear what you think of the sound... I'm Je-l-l-l-y-y-y


----------



## abvolt

cool I had one of those  like 45 years ago just a little different looking Lol..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> cool I had one of those  like 45 years ago just a little different looking Lol..




Yeah. Added it in for fun. A friend was going to throw away a lot of records. There is some real gold stuff in the collection. So I took them off him and figured I will play around with vinyl.

He was going to throw away a mint condition Bob Dylan album from 1966. :mad: :rolleyes:


----------



## abvolt

wow grab that, I really loved my turn tables awesome sound just about as fine as it gets..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> cool I had one of those  like 45 years ago just a little different looking Lol..


 

 I had this one a THORENS TD160 gave it to my son along with my 600+ records from 60's 70's and 80's cant say i miss vinyl though like they say been there done that .


----------



## JamesBr

abvolt said:


> cool I had one of those  like 45 years ago just a little different looking Lol..


 
  
 Vintage is the best! haha 45 years ago ..class!


----------



## jhljhl

Seamonster suggested ecc804 in wa22.  They are really good tubes actually reminds me of tung sol 6f8g round plates but a little leaner.


----------



## SeeHear

badas said:


> Time to burn some tubes. Rolled in the GE 6AS7g's. So far it is ticking a lot of boxes. Early days tho.
> 
> My favorite New Zealand artist Gin Wigmore released a new album today. You go girl. Your first two albums were a knock out. Way better than the other Kiwi girl. Lorde. Let's see if she can make it 3 from 3.


 
  
 We got a single, Written in the Water, on May 29th.  Is it on that album?


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> I had this one a THORENS TD160 gave it to my son along with my 600+ records from 60's 70's and 80's cant say i miss vinyl though like they say been there done that .


 
  
 Yeah. I never thought I would do vinyl. I have actually never had a player. Ever. I am part of the cassette generation. Using tubes has made me feel vintage. So I want to experiment. Also scoring a lot of free records helped me.
  
 So far it is great. I've been using speakers so far. The sonics are way better than digital. Will experiment with HP's soon. However I think crackling sound might be too much for HP's.


jhljhl said:


> Seamonster suggested ecc804 in wa22.  They are really good tubes actually reminds me of tung sol 6f8g round plates but a little leaner.


 
  
 Any particular brand? Do you need a adapter or do they fit straight in the 6SN7 circuit?


----------



## Badas

seehear said:


> We got a single, Written in the Water, on May 29th.  Is it on that album?


 
  
 It sure is.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Yeah. I never thought I would do vinyl. I have actually never had a player. Ever. I am part of the cassette generation. Using tubes has made me feel vintage. So I want to experiment. Also scoring a lot of free records helped me.
> 
> So far it is great. I've been using speakers so far. The sonics are way better than digital. Will experiment with HP's soon. However I think crackling sound might be too much for HP's.
> 
> Any particular brand? Do you need a adapter or do they fit straight in the 6SN7 circuit?


 
 Yeah you need a 6cg7 to 6sn7 adapter.  Mazda ecc804 but I think they are made by brimar or mullard.


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> I find them quite different, the SERP's have probably the most bottom end out of the 300B's I have heard. They are as Stereolab says a bit dark, my concern is the failure rate, I don't know anyone who has not had problems with them.


 
  
 Well, now I can go into the category of users who've had problems with SERPs, since one of the brand-new pair I'm using for my WA5-LE has died.* While I'm getting it replaced I popped in the EML Mesh 300Bs and confirmed my earlier opinion that they on the same level of SQ as the SERPs, but have a smoother, more organic quality. Certainly a bit more tube-like. A touch darker for sure. I still prefer the SERPs but am perfectly happy with the EMLs.
  
 * I noticed the filament occasionally getting very bright, much more than the other tube. While doing this, I would here some static. I then tested the tube and noticed it could only manage 2000 Gm, far less than the 5000-6000 Gm that's standard for 300Bs (and that its healthy sibling manages). Once again the decision to buy a quality tube-tester has been validated. Without it I would likely have soldiered on, since the WA5-LE's auto-bias circuitry was able to compensate for the lesser Gm. But surely that's not good for the amp and at some point something would have failed.


----------



## Faddius

I have the pleasure of introducing a WA5 into my home setup and I'm suitably impressed with the tone. I'm running Abyss with it and feeding it redbooks and HD flacs via a Bricasti M1.
  
 I'm finding it very laid back though. Almost too laid back and not fast enough. Maybe I just need to adjust my perception as I've also running a LAu which seems more forward and certainly faster. I'm gonna try some AQ Sky RCA interconnects between the Bricasti and the WA5 this weekend to see if its the custom gold interconnects that's muddying up the SQ.
  
 Any idea what tube combos I can roll with to add a bit more clarity?


----------



## isquirrel

Congratulations:
  
 Depends on your budget, the best tubes for the WA5 will cost you more than the amps. Can you expand a bit more on this please.


----------



## Audiogalore

faddius said:


> I have the pleasure of introducing a WA5 into my home setup and I'm suitably impressed with the tone. I'm running Abyss with it and feeding it redbooks and HD flacs via a Bricasti M1.
> 
> I'm finding it very laid back though. Almost too laid back and not fast enough. Maybe I just need to adjust my perception as I've also running a LAu which seems more forward and certainly faster. I'm gonna try some AQ Sky RCA interconnects between the Bricasti and the WA5 this weekend to see if its the custom gold interconnects that's muddying up the SQ.
> 
> Any idea what tube combos I can roll with to add a bit more clarity?


 
 Treasures = power
 1942 tung sol round plate = driver
 EML = rectifier


----------



## TonyNewman

faddius said:


> I have the pleasure of introducing a WA5 into my home setup and I'm suitably impressed with the tone. I'm running Abyss with it and feeding it redbooks and HD flacs via a Bricasti M1.
> 
> I'm finding it very laid back though. Almost too laid back and not fast enough. Maybe I just need to adjust my perception as I've also running a LAu which seems more forward and certainly faster. I'm gonna try some AQ Sky RCA interconnects between the Bricasti and the WA5 this weekend to see if its the custom gold interconnects that's muddying up the SQ.
> 
> Any idea what tube combos I can roll with to add a bit more clarity?


 
 No mention of what tubes are currently in use. If that is stock tubes *ACK*COUGH* then almost anything else you stick in the sockets is going to make things better, perhaps _*much *_better.
  
 I would suggest the Brimar rectifiers as a starting point - very inexpensive and very high quality sound for the money.
  
 Drivers - TS RPs or NUs (not the 6F8G if going NU - these struggle to power the 300Bs and can get noisey). The NUs are more coloured than the TS RPs, so if clarity is critical the TS RPs might be best. Note that there are versions of the TS RP that are much less expensive than the 6SN7s. Mine are all 6SL7s/6C8Gs and they sound fantastic. These can be had for a lot less than the 6SN7s. RCA 6C8Gs can be had very cheaply - these are very detailed tubes, but are a little dry.
  
 Power - The EAT is the detail/clarity king of the 300Bs I have tried. Extremely transparent tube with great extension up and down. Almost SS sounding for a 300B, if you know what I mean. Don't expect much midrange magic from them, but if you want transparency this is perhaps the 300B for you. I sometimes use it for instrumental / classical listening and it is superb for that, but for vocal-centric tracks there are better choices out there.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

New revised WA5-LE will make an appearance at the S.F. Bay Area Head-Fi meet.


----------



## Fririce0003

Any aussie headfiers looking for WA5 tubes or just 300b's and 274b's in general I've got my old ones up for sale on SNA. Haven't used them since getting the Takatsuki's and it's a shame to have them sitting un used.
 I would've posted them up for sale here on the trade forum, but that would've involved creating a few too many classifieds...
  
 Here's the link for those interested: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/85525-fs-sophia-royal-princess-300b-kr-audio-300b-balloon-full-music-274bn-psvane-we274b-replica-sophia-princess-274b-mesh-psvane-cv181-tii/


----------



## musicman59

faddius said:


> I have the pleasure of introducing a WA5 into my home setup and I'm suitably impressed with the tone. I'm running Abyss with it and feeding it redbooks and HD flacs via a Bricasti M1.
> 
> I'm finding it very laid back though. Almost too laid back and not fast enough. Maybe I just need to adjust my perception as I've also running a LAu which seems more forward and certainly faster. I'm gonna try some AQ Sky RCA interconnects between the Bricasti and the WA5 this weekend to see if its the custom gold interconnects that's muddying up the SQ.
> 
> Any idea what tube combos I can roll with to add a bit more clarity?


 
 I agree with Tony. You will probably like the EAT 300B or the Elrog. I would say that a pair of WE274B will help with that too. Oh! it just happens that I have all 3 in my collection and wil be willing to sell them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 I also have the Bricasti M1 and I would use the Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 or even better the Gold Eclipse 7 for interconnect.
  
 I like the more relaxed and warmer sound so I am using the Eclipse 7 that is OCC Copper.


----------



## jhljhl

hifiguy528 said:


> New revised WA5-LE will make an appearance at the S.F. Bay Area Head-Fi meet.


 

 Will there be an update to the WA5 as well?


----------



## meraias

jhljhl said:


> Will there be an update to the WA5 as well?


 

 +10000
 hopefully with increased class A power!!!


----------



## TonyNewman

meraias said:


> +10000
> hopefully with increased class A power!!!


 
  
 8W from the K1K output is plenty to drive the HE6 - what would you need more for? From the speaker taps to drive floor standers?
  
 The 300B tube can't do a lot more output power. I have seen SET designs that push the 300B output to 12W, but you are taking a big chance with that - some tubes might burn out pretty fast when pushed that hard.
  
 Next step would be 211 or 845 tubes - a completely new design.


----------



## meraias

tonynewman said:


> 8W from the K1K output is plenty to drive the HE6 - what would you need more for? From the speaker taps to drive floor standers?
> 
> The 300B tube can't do a lot more output power. I have seen SET designs that push the 300B output to 12W, but you are taking a big chance with that - some tubes might burn out pretty fast when pushed that hard.
> 
> Next step would be 211 or 845 tubes - a completely new design.


 





 my happy dream....


----------



## TonyNewman

meraias said:


> my happy dream....


 
  
 Viva Egoista(sp?) uses the 845 power tube. The only headamp that I know of that does that. 15W of class A SET goodness.
  
 15W is very easy on the 845 - I have seen SET designs push the 845 up to 24W, with 20W being quite common.
  
 LOve to own one, but the price makes my nutz shrivel.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> meraias said:
> 
> 
> > my happy dream....
> ...


 

 A little over kill for headphones better to concentrate on SQ.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> A little over kill for headphones better to concentrate on SQ.


 
  
 Sure - but it can be fun to play with this sort of thing.
  
 I used to own an 845 based SET speaker amp. I used the HiFiMan adapter box to hook up the speaker output to drive my headphones. Didn't really work for the HE6, but it drove the HD800s superbly - slightly better than the WA5 IMHO. That beast was 20W of Class A power - enough to blow any headphone apart, so a lot of care was required with the gain knob. Fun fun fun.


----------



## WooAudio

The new version added a  HI / LO LEVEL switch, and a HI / LO power switch. The HI LEVEL and HI power setting will output approx 8W. This setting is recommended to use for inefficient headphones such as Abyss AB-1266, HifiMan HE-1000, HE6, and AKG K1000. Yes, there is a lot of power going into headphones but you don't have to use all 8 watts. You can use the LOW power setting, approx 1.5W, to make all other headphones to sing properly.
  
 In the previous version of WA5, the XLR output (HI power output) lacked the ability to adjust output strength and thus limiting the volume control range for normal listening. The new version has a cure. We added a LEVEL switch to do just that. The LO LEVEL setting cuts down the power significantly so you will get plenty of volume to play with even on HIGH power mode. You will be sure to find one setting to make your headphones to dial in.
  

  
  
 Cheers,
 Jack


----------



## abvolt

wow that new wa5le sure looks good..


----------



## TonyNewman

wooaudio said:


> The new version added a  HI / LO LEVEL switch, and a HI / LO power switch. The HI LEVEL and HI power setting will output approx 8W. This setting is recommended to use for inefficient headphones such as Abyss AB-1266, HifiMan HE-1000, HE6, and AKG K1000. Yes, there is a lot of power going into headphones but you don't have to use all 8 watts. You can use the LOW power setting, approx 1.5W, to make all other headphones to sing properly.
> 
> In the previous version of WA5, the XLR output (HI power output) lacked the ability to adjust output strength and thus limiting the volume control range for normal listening. The new version has a cure. We added a LEVEL switch to do just that. The LO LEVEL setting cuts down the power significantly so you will get plenty of volume to play with even on HIGH power mode. You will be sure to find one setting to make your headphones to dial in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just a suggestion - moving the 6SN7 sockets slightly forward and apart on the top plate would make fitting 6F8G/6C8G tubes, together with fat 300Bs like the SERPs, a lot easier. As it is now the tubes are a very tight fit - have to juggle spacers/adapters to make everything fit.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Just a suggestion - moving the 6SN7 sockets slightly forward and apart on the top plate would make fitting 6F8G/6C8G tubes, together with fat 300Bs like the SERPs, a lot easier. As it is now the tubes are a very tight fit - have to juggle spacers/adapters to make everything fit.


 

 I've always thought that was a design flaw. It is designed in a line to look nice however the space is very limited.


----------



## TonyNewman

Yep - form over function. Not a critical thing, just a minor annoyance.


----------



## Audiogalore

jhljhl said:


> Will there be an update to


 
  


wooaudio said:


> The new version added a  HI / LO LEVEL switch, and a HI / LO power switch. The HI LEVEL and HI power setting will output approx 8W. This setting is recommended to use for inefficient headphones such as Abyss AB-1266, HifiMan HE-1000, HE6, and AKG K1000. Yes, there is a lot of power going into headphones but you don't have to use all 8 watts. You can use the LOW power setting, approx 1.5W, to make all other headphones to sing properly.
> 
> In the previous version of WA5, the XLR output (HI power output) lacked the ability to adjust output strength and thus limiting the volume control range for normal listening. The new version has a cure. We added a LEVEL switch to do just that. The LO LEVEL setting cuts down the power significantly so you will get plenty of volume to play with even on HIGH power mode. You will be sure to find one setting to make your headphones to dial in.
> 
> ...


 
 I am just curious and a bit confuse is this the WA5 or the WA5 LE. The front plate resembles the WA5?


----------



## Silent One

Jack speaks to the previous version of the WA5 above. But the LE also got refreshed to my knowledge.


----------



## Audiogalore

silent one said:


> Jack speaks to the previous version of the WA5 above. But the LE also got refreshed to my knowledge.


 
 Than I assume the difference will be the speaker out terminals on the WA5?


----------



## Silent One

Yes.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

revised WA5 will also feature WBT Nextgen connectors and upgraded internal parts as standard build.


----------



## meraias




----------



## Deaf As An Adder

there's balanced input
 cheers


----------



## WooAudio

Here are the highlights for the new versions.
  
  
New features:
WA5-LE ($3699)
 - High power 1/4” and 4-Pin XLR headphone outputs (up to 8watts)
 - User selectable High or Low output LEVEL to match headphone sensitivity
 - User selectable High or Low output LEVEL to match headphone sensitivity
 - User selectable High or Low impedance to match headphone impedance
  
 WA5 ($5899):
 Same as WA5-LE plus the following features and benefits:
 - Speaker outputs x 2 (8 watts per channel @8 Ohms)
 - Premium internal parts included (V-Cap, Jensen, Black Gate caps)  
 - XLR input x 1
 - WBT Nextgen 0210-Cu RCA inputs x 2
 - WBT Nextgen 0710-Cu Speaker terminals x 1 set
  
 Hope this is clear.


----------



## Khragon

wooaudio said:


> The new version added a  HI / LO LEVEL switch, and a HI / LO power switch. The HI LEVEL and HI power setting will output approx 8W. This setting is recommended to use for inefficient headphones such as Abyss AB-1266, HifiMan HE-1000, HE6, and AKG K1000. Yes, there is a lot of power going into headphones but you don't have to use all 8 watts. You can use the LOW power setting, approx 1.5W, to make all other headphones to sing properly.
> 
> In the previous version of WA5, the XLR output (HI power output) lacked the ability to adjust output strength and thus limiting the volume control range for normal listening. The new version has a cure. We added a LEVEL switch to do just that. The LO LEVEL setting cuts down the power significantly so you will get plenty of volume to play with even on HIGH power mode. You will be sure to find one setting to make your headphones to dial in.
> 
> ...


 
 What's the difference between HP Power Switch and Level switch?


----------



## Audiogalore

wooaudio said:


> Here are the highlights for the new versions.
> 
> 
> New features:
> ...


 
 Thank you Jack for update without assumptions


----------



## zeissiez

wooaudio said:


> Here are the highlights for the new versions.
> 
> 
> [COLOR=222222]New features:[/COLOR]
> ...




Jack, 

What's the difference between the LEVEL switch and HP Output switch? How different does the new WA5 sound compared to the old WA5?


----------



## joseph69

Tonight for the first time I'm using the Brimar 5Z4G with the NU-6F8G's in the WA6 > RS1i and right from the start the WA6 is dead quiet! When I use the UE-596 with the NU-6F8G's I have a very slight hum from the NU-6F8G driver/power tubes…I guess the latter have a slight interference with each other?


----------



## Audiogalore

zeissiez said:


> Jack,
> 
> What's the difference between the LEVEL switch and HP Output switch? How different does the new WA5 sound compared to the old WA5?


 
 The level toggle switch in the circuit allows you to select the gain. The HP selector switch only changes the mode of the output to which ever socket you have your headphone connected.  I do understand your confusion because the outputs should have been labelled on the face plate "HI output for the xlr" and the LO output for the 1/4" RCA output.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## abvolt

joseph69 said:


> Tonight for the first time I'm using the Brimar 5Z4G with the NU-6F8G's in the WA6 > RS1i and right from the start the WA6 is dead quiet! When I use the UE-596 with the NU-6F8G's I have a very slight hum from the NU-6F8G driver/power tubes…I guess the latter have a slight interference with each other?


 
  
 great combo I use the same in my wa22 the sylvania vt99's are just as nice and a little lower in cost imo..happy listening


----------



## joseph69

abvolt said:


> great combo I use the same in my wa22 the sylvania vt99's are just as nice and a little lower in cost imo..happy listening


 
 Good to know the Sylvania's are less expensive…when I need another pair, I'll try them out, thanks!


----------



## zeissiez

audiogalore said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > Jack,
> ...


 

 Ahh......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  So HP POWER is a port switch, LEVEL is a gain switch


----------



## Audiogalore

Correct!


----------



## WooAudio

*What's the difference between the LEVEL switch and HP Output switch? *
  
 First of all, both the XLR and 1/4" output are active the same time. The HP POWER HI / LO switch select the headphone power output model between high and low power. It affects both outputs the same time. When it is on HI Power, the max output on the headphone outputs is about 8w. On the LO Power, the outputs are approx 1.5w. This is NOT a gain control switch. It switches between Plate output (HI) or Cathode output (LO) of the 300B tubes. To explain the technical differences, we will have to open up a whole new topic so we are not discussing here.. For us to understand,  this switch selects different part of the 300B tube to get high or low power output to the headphones.
  
  
 The LEVEL switch is to control the input voltage as to limit the power output. You can use it to get more volume control to play with. 
  
  
  
*How different does the new WA5 sound compared to the old WA5?*
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]The new WA5 now build standard with the Premium internal parts and the WBT RCA and speaker terminals. With the added new features (HP Power, Level, Impedance), you should be able to find a correct setting to match a particular headphones. All the flexibility and convenience allow your headphones to work seamlessly with the amp and thus improving the overall sound quality.[/color]


----------



## Audiogalore

wooaudio said:


> *What's the difference between the LEVEL switch and HP Output switch? *
> 
> First of all, both the XLR and 1/4" output are active the same time. The HP POWER HI / LO switch select the headphone power output model between high and low power. It affects both outputs the same time. When it is on HI Power, the max output on the headphone outputs is about 8w. On the LO Power, the outputs are approx 1.5w. This is NOT a gain control switch. It switches between Plate output (HI) or Cathode output (LO) of the 300B tubes. To explain the technical differences, we will have to open up a whole new topic so we are not discussing here.. For us to understand,  this switch selects different part of the 300B tube to get high or low power output to the headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you Jack for the full explanation and support to better understand the intended circuit function topology; highly appreciated!


----------



## Audiogalore




----------



## Audiogalore

wooaudio said:


> *What's the difference between the LEVEL switch and HP Output switch? *
> 
> First of all, both the XLR and 1/4" output are active the same time. The HP POWER HI / LO switch select the headphone power output model between high and low power. It affects both outputs the same time. When it is on HI Power, the max output on the headphone outputs is about 8w. On the LO Power, the outputs are approx 1.5w. This is NOT a gain control switch. It switches between Plate output (HI) or Cathode output (LO) of the 300B tubes. To explain the technical differences, we will have to open up a whole new topic so we are not discussing here.. For us to understand,  this switch selects different part of the 300B tube to get high or low power output to the headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Jack can one use both XLR and 1/4" outputs at the same time?


----------



## Khragon

I think you can, but probably not recommenced. 

Jack, what is the high and low output impedance, and how does it differ from WA5 classic?


----------



## WooAudio

You can use both XLR and 1/4" the same time but you won't get the best sound as opposed to use one hearphone a time. The down effect would be minimum when using same headphones. 

Hi-Z is 120 ohms and Lo-Z is 8 ohms, same on the classic WA5.


----------



## daverich4

joseph69 said:


> Tonight for the first time I'm using the Brimar 5Z4G with the NU-6F8G's in the WA6 > RS1i and right from the start the WA6 is dead quiet! When I use the UE-596 with the NU-6F8G's I have a very slight hum from the NU-6F8G driver/power tubes…I guess the latter have a slight interference with each other?




I get exactly the same thing in my WA22 with my TS 6F8G's and a 596. Not a problem with any other rectifier. I use Glen's adapters so the wires are on the outside, left and right, but it must still be some kind of interference.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> I get exactly the same thing in my WA22 with my TS 6F8G's and a 596. Not a problem with any other rectifier. I use Glen's adapters so the wires are on the outside, left and right, but it must still be some kind of interference.


 

 Did you mention TS RP?????
  
 I just had to share this pic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 TS RP is one tube I just can't go without. Best sounding tube I experienced. Made the biggest improvement to my WA22.


----------



## preproman

wooaudio said:


> You can use both XLR and 1/4" the same time but you won't get the best sound as opposed to use one hearphone a time. The down effect would be minimum when using same headphones.
> 
> Hi-Z is 120 ohms and Lo-Z is 8 ohms, same on the classic WA5.


 

 Will the WA5-LE have the XLR output and or the same face plate as the WA5?


----------



## joseph69

daverich4 said:


> I get exactly the same thing in my WA22 with my TS 6F8G's and a 596. Not a problem with any other rectifier. I use Glen's adapters so the wires are on the outside, left and right, but it must still be some kind of interference.


 
 Must be the the combo, because I also use Glenn's adapters for both the 595/6F8G's and if I switch either the rectifier/power-drive tubes I don't have this issue at all.


----------



## meraias

Looks like there will be no updates to the internals from the old WA5?


----------



## JamesBr

badas said:


> Did you mention TS RP?????
> 
> I just had to share this pic.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks F*#$ing good!


----------



## 2359glenn

joseph69 said:


> Tonight for the first time I'm using the Brimar 5Z4G with the NU-6F8G's in the WA6 > RS1i and right from the start the WA6 is dead quiet! When I use the UE-596 with the NU-6F8G's I have a very slight hum from the NU-6F8G driver/power tubes…I guess the latter have a slight interference with each other?


 

 When using the 596 make sure the plate leads on the 596 are as far as possible from the grid leads on the 6F8s.


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> When using the 596 make sure the plate leads on the 596 are as far as possible from the grid leads on the 6F8s.


 
 Thank you for the advise…the plate leads on the 596 are as far back as they can possible, and both 6F8G leads are facing as far forward towards the right as possible. Its only a faint hum which was much worse before the 6F8G's were burned-in, and these are the only drive-power tubes that give me this issue. At this point I'm so used to it that I barley hear it anymore, and never hear it when music is playing. Once again thank you for the advice.


----------



## novaca

Hi
 Have you ever tried this one?
 Brimar 5U4G, code DO or D0 (smooth gray plates, rectangular getter)

  
 Do you know why it has crossed out one plate?

  
 Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Tonight for the first time I'm using the Brimar 5Z4G with the NU-6F8G's in the WA6 > RS1i and right from the start the WA6 is dead quiet! When I use the UE-596 with the NU-6F8G's I have a very slight hum from the NU-6F8G driver/power tubes…I guess the latter have a slight interference with each other?



The 596 didn't sound very good to me. Not sure the reason. Maybe harsh or something. 
And my nu 6c8 and 6f8 are very noisy. But with brimar 5z4 and 5r4 they all sound sublime. Run brimar 5z3 with ts 6f8 and love it. Silky smooth.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> The 596 didn't sound very good to me. Not sure the reason. Maybe harsh or something.
> And my nu 6c8 and 6f8 are very noisy. But with brimar 5z4 and 5r4 they all sound sublime. Run brimar 5z3 with ts 6f8 and love it. Silky smooth.


 
 I usually use the 596 with my 6SN7's with no issues/noise/harshness ever. But with the 6F8G I have that very slight hum, but only from 1 channel, so I switched the tubes from L/R channel and sure enough I had the issue in the other channel, so it seems the problem is 1 of my 6F8G's. This is also happening with the Brimar-5Z4G but too less of a degree…theres no humming/buzzing, but I hear a slight distortion/crackling on some occasions with 0 volume, so its definitely 1 of the power/drive tubes.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> I usually use the 596 with my 6SN7's with no issues/noise/harshness ever. But with the 6F8G I have that very slight hum, but only from 1 channel, so I switched the tubes from L/R channel and sure enough I had the issue in the other channel, so it seems the problem is 1 of my 6F8G's. This is also happening with the Brimar-5Z4G but too less of a degree…theres no humming/buzzing, but I hear a slight distortion/crackling on some occasions with 0 volume, so its definitely 1 of the power/drive tubes.



Sorry my friend. I have a gz34 f31 and when I put it in the other day it lit up like a Christmas tree. Turned it off real quick, was worried it would blow. 
But try some dexoxit help with noise a lot!!


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> ... But try some dexoxit help with noise a lot!!


 
  
 +1. Magic stuff that really can help with noisy tubes. Don't forget to Deoxit the top contact with the 6F8Gs/6C8Gs.
  
 I am currently cycling all of the NU 6F8Gs/6C8Gs and Brimar rectifiers through my WA6 before putting them away. So far I have had 2 noisy NU 6F8Gs out of 8 that Deoxit won't fix. I put about 50 hours on them and the hum was constant for both tubes. Not particularly bad, but noticeable on quiet passages. The other 6 have been golden.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Sorry my friend. I have a gz34 f31 and when I put it in the other day it lit up like a Christmas tree. Turned it off real quick, was worried it would blow.
> But try some dexoxit help with noise a lot!!


 


tonynewman said:


> +1. Magic stuff that really can help with noisy tubes. Don't forget to Deoxit the top contact with the 6F8Gs/6C8Gs.
> 
> I am currently cycling all of the NU 6F8Gs/6C8Gs and Brimar rectifiers through my WA6 before putting them away. So far I have had 2 noisy NU 6F8Gs out of 8 that Deoxit won't fix. I put about 50 hours on them and the hum was constant for both tubes. Not particularly bad, but noticeable on quiet passages. The other 6 have been golden.


 
 Sorrry for both of your tubes also acting up…thanks for the Deoxit suggestion, I'm definitely going to try some!


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Sorrry for both of your tubes also acting up…thanks for the Deoxit suggestion, I'm definitely going to try some!


 
  
 Thanks. Noisy tubes happen. Deoxit seems to give the best chance of eliminating any contact problems. If the tube is still noisy, it's the tube.
  
 2 bad tubes out of 8 so far. That's not so bad for tubes over 70 years old, I think (my NOS NU 6F8Gs are dated 1942). Who knows, the 2 noisy ones might just come good with more hours on them.


----------



## pervysage

hifiguy528 said:


> WA7+WA7tp or WA22 would be my personal recommendations.


 
  
 I just recently picked up an HD800 to go with my TH900. From what I've read, the WA22 works pretty well with both of these headphones.
  
 Is there any other amps you would recommend, or would the WA22 pretty much be the best one in that price range?


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Thanks. Noisy tubes happen. Deoxit seems to give the best chance of eliminating any contact problems. If the tube is still noisy, it's the tube.
> 2 bad tubes out of 8 so far. That's not so bad for tubes over 70 years old, I think (my NOS NU 6F8Gs are dated 1942). Who knows, the 2 noisy ones might just come good with more hours on them.


 
 No thats not too bad, but these tubes aren't cheap either.
 Hopefully with some Deoxit on the tube pins the noise will go away.


----------



## nwavesailor

Just a heads up on Detoxit and other solutions you may want to put on tube pins.
  
 Use it carefully and sparingly..
  
 I have replaced sockets and spent serious time 'de-gunking' others from folks who though if a little is good..............then a lot is better!


----------



## TonyNewman

nwavesailor said:


> Just a heads up on Detoxit and other solutions you may want to put on tube pins.
> 
> Use it carefully and sparingly..
> 
> I have replaced sockets and spent serious time 'de-gunking' others from folks who though if a little is good..............then a lot is better!


 
  
 Totally agree. I use a cotton bud with a couple of drops on it. That is all that is needed to clean and leave a thin protective/conductive film on the pins.
  
 It doesn't take much - a tiny tube of deoxit should last for a LOT of tube cleans.
  
 Pic says it all - this is the same tiny 2ml tube I started with and I have cleaned more than a dozen tubes with it. It is still more than half full.
  
 A 6SL7 TS RP tube is next to it for scale (this tube is from my stash and has not been cleaned - you can see the pins are a little grubby).
  

  
 Gave the same tube a quick clean - 2 drops of Deoxit on a cotton bud (apologies for my inept camera work).


----------



## joseph69

nwavesailor said:


> Just a heads up on Detoxit and other solutions you may want to put on tube pins.
> Use it carefully and sparingly..
> I have replaced sockets and spent serious time 'de-gunking' others from folks who though if a little is good..............then a lot is better!


 


tonynewman said:


> Totally agree. I use a cotton bud with a couple of drops on it. That is all that is needed to clean and leave a thin protective/conductive film on the pins.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Totally agree. I use a cotton bud with a couple of drops on it. That is all that is needed to clean and leave a thin protective/conductive film on the pins.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great tip... $7.55 US on Amazon. Thanks.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 The stuff has fixed a lot of noisy tubes. Amazing the gunk you get off the pins. Also lowered the noise floor level to amazing levels. To my ears slightly smoother / silkier as well.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ^
> 
> The stuff has fixed a lot of noisy tubes. Amazing the gunk you get off the pins. Also lowered the noise floor level to amazing levels. To my ears slightly smoother / silkier as well.


 
  
 +1. If Jesus uses a tube cleaner, this would be it


----------



## meraias

no reviews on the new WA5LE from SF meet?


----------



## Stereolab42

meraias said:


> no reviews on the new WA5LE from SF meet?


 
  
 It sounded awesome, but I did not play with any of the fancy new switches... it was setup properly for the Abyss it was connected to. That Abyss... oh man... clearly the best headphones in the world. LCD-3 comes closest, but holy crap.


----------



## meraias

stereolab42 said:


> It sounded awesome, but I did not play with any of the fancy new switches... it was setup properly for the Abyss it was connected to. That Abyss... oh man... clearly the best headphones in the world. LCD-3 comes closest, but holy crap.


 
  
 wow ok, is it a lot better than the old revision?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

WA22 is now available with smooth volume control.  Just let us know in the "Add a Note" section within Pay Pal at check out.
  
 https://instagram.com/p/5aD87WMrQs/?taken-by=wooaudio


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> It sounded awesome, but I did not play with any of the fancy new switches... it was setup properly for the Abyss it was connected to. That Abyss... oh man... clearly the best headphones in the world. LCD-3 comes closest, but holy crap.


 
  
 It was a pleasure meeting you at the show.  Nice to put a face to a name.


----------



## TonyNewman

Takatsukis have arrived and are now at home in my WA5, warming up.
  
 For those that haven't had the pleasure, these tubes are works of beauty. My crude camera work doesn't do them justice, but I will try:
  
*TA300B*
  

  
  
  
*TA274B*
  

  
 Once I have a few weeks of use with these babies I will post some thoughts on how they compare with my previous best 300B + rectifier setup (SERPs + Brimars).
  
 Happy Days


----------



## isquirrel

Remember to be kind to them initially Tony, having been bumped around for a few days they will need at least 10 days to sound anything like their best, they change pretty dramatically.
  
 Shame the Woo amps have the tube sockets facing backwards, same with the 234's
  
 Glad you got them okay, made sure that packaging was well padded


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Remember to be kind to them initially Tony, having been bumped around for a few days they will need at least 10 days to sound anything like their best, they change pretty dramatically.
> 
> Shame the Woo amps have the tube sockets facing backwards, same with the 234's
> 
> Glad you got them okay, made sure that packaging was well padded


 
  
 Packaging was AWESOME. Totally idiot proof (a very good thing in my case) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Already these tubes sound stunning - mids vocals are a standout. Detail has taken a step up also.
  
 Just really lovely and highly addictive sound. Going to be a fun few weeks finding out what the WA5 can do with the very best glass in it.


----------



## Yoga

tonynewman said:


> Takatsukis have arrived and are now at home in my WA5, warming up.
> 
> For those that haven't had the pleasure, these tubes are works of beauty. My crude camera work doesn't do them justice, but I will try:
> 
> ...


 

 How much do those tubes cost?


----------



## musicman59

yoga said:


> How much do those tubes cost?


 
 New are about $3,000 for the pair of 300B and 274B as far as I know.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> New are about $3,000 for the pair of 300B and 274B as far as I know.


 
  
 I was lucky enough to get my hands on a used set of TA300Bs and TA274Bs with 350 hours on them. It takes something like 500 hours for these tubes to fully settle (similar to WE300B).
  
 An exact pricing can be had from a number of sources. I believe Woo Audio can supply them (unconfirmed) as can Price Japan:
  
LINK - PriceJapan
  
 It is going to take a few weeks of use for these tubes to settle down and produce their best, but I can say they have already outclassed any other 300B I own (SERP, Psvane WE300B replica, EATs). These are all good 300B tubes, and not cheap, but the Taks take the sound to another level. How much of the performance boost is from the TA300Bs and how much from the TA274Bs I can't say yet - have to do a bunch of tube rolling to get a grip on that. The overall effect of going from (SERPs + TS RP + Brimars) to (TA300B + TS RP + TA274B) is very significant for me. Expensive, but I can hear the payback in the SQ already.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> I was lucky enough to get my hands on a used set of TA300Bs and TA274Bs with 350 hours on them. It takes something like 500 hours for these tubes to fully settle (similar to WE300B).


 
 Lucky you!  If you're interested in selling the Psvane WE300 replica I am interested in buying, I have the WE300B reissued and simply curious on how the replica compares.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Lucky you!  If you're interested in selling the Psvane WE300 replica I am interested in buying, I have the WE300B reissued and simply curious on how the replica compares.


 
 I'll PM you shortly.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> Lucky you!  If you're interested in selling the Psvane WE300 replica I am interested in buying, I have the WE300B reissued and simply curious on how the replica compares.


 

 You have one of the best tube collections on Head-Fi, be worth your while checking out the Takatsuki's


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> You have one of the best tube collections on Head-Fi, be worth your while checking out the Takatsuki's


 
  
 +1.
  
 Quite a bit of daylight between my previous setup (SERPs and Brimars) and the TA300B/TA274B setup. The Taks are very, very special tubes. I feel happy to say that after only about 3 hours with them last night (and they are not yet at their best).


----------



## Angelbelow

tonynewman said:


> Takatsukis have arrived and are now at home in my WA5, warming up.
> 
> For those that haven't had the pleasure, these tubes are works of beauty. My crude camera work doesn't do them justice, but I will try:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Awesome!


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> Takatsukis have arrived and are now at home in my WA5, warming up.
> 
> For those that haven't had the pleasure, these tubes are works of beauty. My crude camera work doesn't do them justice, but I will try:
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats on your new addition! Your photos still allowed us to share in your joy.


----------



## Badas

angelbelow said:


> Awesome!


 
  
 Yeah, They look mind blowing good.


----------



## fhuang

tonynewman said:


> Takatsukis have arrived and are now at home in my WA5, warming up.
> 
> For those that haven't had the pleasure, these tubes are works of beauty. My crude camera work doesn't do them justice, but I will try:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 drool


----------



## TonyNewman

fhuang said:


> drool


 
  
 And they sound better than they look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nothing else I own (or have heard) compares to these tubes. (disclaimer - I have never heard vintage or re-issue WE300B, Elrog, WE274B, WE422A, U52 or metal base GZ34).
  
 If you have an amp that can take these tubes you owe it to yourself to try them sometime.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Unlike buying used or "NOS" (who really knows...) WE tubes, there are no risks in buying Takatsuki tubes from a reputable seller like us.  We test every tube we sell to ensure it meets or exceeds our expectations before it is shipped to our customers.


----------



## TonyNewman

I wasn't sure Woo sold these babies - good to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do you also sell the TA274B?


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> I wasn't sure Woo sold these babies - good to know
> 
> Do you also sell the TA274B?


 My question too Tony Newman. Because what I really need is another 274B rectifier, preferably one that costs a million dollars and comes in a pretty wooden box from across the ocean.


----------



## isquirrel

@ Woo Audio, can you let us know the prices you are charging for these please?
  
 Do you have the rights to be able to see them in any country you choose?


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> @ Woo Audio, can you let us know the prices you are charging for these please?
> 
> Do you have the rights to be able to see them in any country you choose?


 
 Hey Simon,
  
 Whats the latest with the Elrog's ? did you get things resolved are the rectifying the tube situation?


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Whats the latest with the Elrog's ? did you get things resolved are the rectifying the tube situation?


 

 That's a curly one, I don't know if there has been any resolution at the manufacturer level. Last I heard was that the Bases were an issue as they are inexpensive Chinese ones, and the the tolerances on them are such that the pins often do not line up precisely as they do with say a Takatsuki. I have had 3 failures with the Elrog's, all for different reasons. One lost vacuum, the other started to sputter and carry on during use (which I got a video of) and the other just died. It was suggested at that time that I was the only one having issues. Clearly that has not been the case. It has also been suggested that the sockets on the Woo's do not allow for any movement of the Tube pins thereby excabating the alignment issue with the bases and pins. The distributor here knows his stuff and he spotted the issue and we both questioned the continued use of the existing brass bases. It has been suggested that not only do the bases have a potential pin alignment issues, they also dod allow for any flex and this causes strain on the tube and therefore sooner or later leads to failure.
  
 If anyone recall the original Elrog's had black bases and we can only hope that they return to those. I understand that one entire batch of tubes failed. I do not know if this extends to other tubes manufactured by Elrog or only the 300B.
  
 The distributor picked up both my sets of tubes 2 weeks ago, one set was brand new unopened and the other set one had failed earlier and had been replaced by a used tube at my request so I knew it was functional. I have been told I will be receiving a refund. When I do I will let you all know. The distributor has stood behind the product and has good experience with tubes as they are also the AudioNote importer here.. This gives me confidence that these issues will get resolved however as I say nothing has been confirmed by the manufacturer officially. 
  
 This is all a disappointing episode as the Elrog's do sound good, and are very much a welcome addition to the list of new production tubes, they sound good and probably could be ta viable alternative to the Takatsuki's. However they need to get the reliability issues sorted. I understand they have been less issues in traditional 2 channel amps, probably because those guys tend not to tube roll as much as we do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. None the less the tubes should be rugged enough to withstand being handled and tube rolled by users.
  
 I will ask the distributor if he is prepared to comment here as I know several of you have the tubes, I feel partly responsible as I talked them up, apologies to anyone having issues. I have heard several rumours re their status in the US so it would be helpful if either the manufacturer or a distributor would comment here and let us all know what is going on. There are several sonic questions to be answered also, I was told that the Elrog's had excellent bas, in my setup I find that they have the weakest bass of any new production 300B I own, they do have a lovely euphonic clarity to them and their tonal balance i best decried (again in my system) as being a little thin in the mid range. They do have the underpinnings of an excellent tube if they can get these issues sorted out.
  
 Hope that answers the question until we get an official response. The Australian distributor is AudioNote AUS, www.audionote.com.au contact Bryan, I won't post his number here for privacy reasons. 
  
 Simon


----------



## longbowbbs

Simon...I just spent some time at LH Labs with the Da Vinci 2 and what is ATM the Sire.....Fun day!


----------



## isquirrel

longbowbbs said:


>


 
 Hey, good to hear from you.
  
 Very jealous, any impressions? I have been talking with Larry a fair bit in the past few months. 
  
 Which version of the DaVinci MK2 did you listen to, you know there are 2 levels? There were going to be 3 levels until some common sense developed. Okay to do that with a cheaper DAC (perhaps) but not with a statement DAC. I worked out the price here for the Extreme version would be close to $70,000 or more if the dollar keeps dropping. I was about to send mine back but have since loaned it out to a friend of mine while I play with the Kalliope, which has been a real surprise and slap in the face for me as I originally generalised about all Sabre DAC's, I could not have been more wrong. 
  
 TBH I have been concerned about their stability, given whats going on with the delayed shipments from the Crowdfunding campaign. Did things look healthy when you were there? The Sire is going to be US $120,000 in its base config and $146,000 for the Extreme package. It uses a C3G tube in the output stage. Did Larry have that working, were you able to listen to it?
  
 All the best


----------



## longbowbbs

isquirrel said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 The Sire was not yet functional. They are deep into Firmware configuration so I was looking at parts not a completed unit. I did not get time with the DaVinci either. Larry was in a meeting off site until about 3 then we got a couple of hours to talk about the company and the upcoming products. Things seemed very active at their shop. The staff was humming in all departments. I got a good vibe from things. I got there about 10:30 and left after 5. 
  
 Gavin went over the different levels of the Da Vinci. The price has a lot to do with the hand building of the units. A lot of the board creation is done by hand including the soldering. The detail was crazy. One thing that was interesting is that the basic power supply design for the Sire is basically the same as the Pulse on there are two of them. Lot's of useful trickle down tech for the entire line. The development time in the Da Vinci and Sire is thousands of hours. Incredibly, they are probably underpriced vs the per hours value in them.


----------



## isquirrel

Good info, thanks, Gavin told me that they only planned on selling 2-3 Sire DAC's a year. Did they confirm it will be in the same chassis as the DaVinci? 

I know that they have had to make the DaVinci modular now to make the production process easier but the new chassis is identical I looks to the existing.

Hopefully they will start shipping soon, glad to hear that they look stable, I hope they survive, too many promising high end companies have failed. The strength of the U.S. dollar is going to adversely affect all US manafacturers in the export markets. Did Larry show you his new head-fi project ?


----------



## TonyNewman

On the Elrog reliability issue - I really hope the manufacturer can sort this out pronto. It would be a great shame if it continued to the point where the brand might be poisoned and nobody will want to touch them.
  
 I want to buy some ER300Bs, but won't until the reliability issues have been addressed.


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> TBH I have been concerned about their stability, given whats going on with the delayed shipments from the Crowdfunding campaign. Did things look healthy when you were there? The Sire is going to be US $120,000 in its base config and $146,000 for the Extreme package. It uses a C3G tube in the output stage. Did Larry have that working, were you able to listen to it?\


 
  
 I wonder why anyone would consider spending six figures on a DAC from a company that must flog for money on crowdfunding sites to develop even its cheapest products. I'd love to know how they funded the "thousands of hours" they've apparently spent on the Sire so far.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Thanks for the update Simon (Elrogs). Not a good situation. It will make people like myself avoid the tubes. I was considering them.


----------



## longbowbbs

isquirrel said:


> Good info, thanks, Gavin told me that they only planned on selling 2-3 Sire DAC's a year. Did they confirm it will be in the same chassis as the DaVinci?
> 
> I know that they have had to make the DaVinci modular now to make the production process easier but the new chassis is identical I looks to the existing.
> 
> Hopefully they will start shipping soon, glad to hear that they look stable, I hope they survive, too many promising high end companies have failed. The strength of the U.S. dollar is going to adversely affect all US manafacturers in the export markets. Did Larry show you his new head-fi project ?


 
 See my PM...I don't want to Hijack the thread


----------



## 3083joe

I have to just say the brimar 5r4 is one amazing sounding tube!


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> On the Elrog reliability issue - I really hope the manufacturer can sort this out pronto. It would be a great shame if it continued to the point where the brand might be poisoned and nobody will want to touch them.
> 
> I want to buy some ER300Bs, but won't until the reliability issues have been addressed.


 

 Fortunately I've had no problems with mine.  They sound terrific.  I have them paired with 1957 metal base GZ34s.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> Fortunately I've had no problems with mine.  They sound terrific.  I have them paired with 1957 metal base GZ34s.


 
  
 Do your have the brass bases? I have had a few folks tell me that the change to brass bases introduced some issues.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> Do your have the brass bases? I have had a few folks tell me that the change to brass bases introduced some issues.


 

 Yes, brass bases.


----------



## Badas

^

Such a shame they can't get their act together. They look very nice. Reliability is the key tho. Life is to short for silly hassles.


----------



## isquirrel

Agree, they are lovely looking tubes, nicely finished. Lets hope the reliability issues are sorted. I heard that the latest batch were okay but still using the brass bases.


----------



## Fririce0003

reeltime said:


> Fortunately I've had no problems with mine.  They sound terrific.  I have them paired with 1957 metal base GZ34s.


 
  
   A little surprised by that combo, what other rectifiers have you tried them out with? Out of the combo's I tried the Elrog out with the GZ34's were actually my least favorite, the sound was a little too bright, mids were a little thin and the bass was mostly gone. It was a very fast combo but that was the only part I found it to shine. The soundstage was also a little too compressed for my liking. The rectifier I found the best with the Elrog was the Takatsuki TA274B. It still kept most of the speed, but added lushness to the music and bass, the bass was back and more impactful. The soundstage was deeper and wider with a heightened sense of euphony and air. I found the Elrog really benefited from a fuller or at least darker rectifier, such as the brimar, to help balance the sound out. YMMV, but was just wondering if you had tried many other rectifiers as your finding were fairly different from mine.
  
   Though my favourite 300B's are still the Takatsuki, haven't gone back to the Elrog for months. Plus the build quality on them is superb, pricey though :/


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


>




Interesting you are using a TT. I'm experimenting with a TT for the first time. At the moment I think I prefer TT's for speakers more than HP's. The clicks and pops of vinyl is too noticeable with HP's. Speakers hide it a lot.

Enjoying the TT tho. Kinda stopped using my Woo and HP's. :rolleyes:


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ... Enjoying the TT tho. Kinda stopped using my Woo and HP's.


 
  
 Philistine!


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Philistine! :wink_face:




I know. I know. I will get back to tubes soon. 

I'm just experimenting.


----------



## musicman59

reeltime said:


> Fortunately I've had no problems with mine.  They sound terrific.  I have them paired with 1957 metal base GZ34s.


 
 Same here.  I have the brass bases and I have had no problems with them but I am planning on selling them as well as my EAT 300B because I need the extra power of the my AVVT 32B in my WA5-LE to driver better my HE-1000 plus I am eyeing the Tak's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Will come out in the FS forum soon together with a pair of Mullard ECC32 Brown Base and WE274B rectifiers.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

isquirrel said:


> @ Woo Audio, can you let us know the prices you are charging for these please?
> 
> Do you have the rights to be able to see them in any country you choose?


 
  
 Please send us a note at info@wooaudio.com.
  
 Quote:


tonynewman said:


> I wasn't sure Woo sold these babies - good to know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes we have TA-274b as well.  Woo Audio is an authorized Takatsukis reseller.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

reeltime said:


> Yes, brass bases.


 
  
 Excellent pairing!


----------



## reeltime

fririce0003 said:


> A little surprised by that combo, what other rectifiers have you tried them out with? Out of the combo's I tried the Elrog out with the GZ34's were actually my least favorite, the sound was a little too bright, mids were a little thin and the bass was mostly gone. It was a very fast combo but that was the only part I found it to shine. The soundstage was also a little too compressed for my liking. The rectifier I found the best with the Elrog was the Takatsuki TA274B. It still kept most of the speed, but added lushness to the music and bass, the bass was back and more impactful. The soundstage was deeper and wider with a heightened sense of euphony and air. I found the Elrog really benefited from a fuller or at least darker rectifier, such as the brimar, to help balance the sound out. YMMV, but was just wondering if you had tried many other rectifiers as your finding were fairly different from mine.
> 
> Though my favourite 300B's are still the Takatsuki, haven't gone back to the Elrog for months. Plus the build quality on them is superb, pricey though :/


 
  
 My approach to rolling-- It's not about the tubes alone.  Everything in the chain affects the other components.  This includes the HEADPHONES.  What works for one headphone may not work with another.  My 2 main headphones right now are the HE1000 and the HD800.
  
 Don't have the Taks.  I may go there someday, I haven't bothered yet because the order process has been ridiculous.  With Woo carrying them now, I may.
  
 I am not heavily into rolling.  I choose something I like and I tend to stay there for long periods of time once I like what I hear.  I've currently been using the HE1000.  I like them, but there are a few flaws that my tube choice needs to consider.  They're a bass rich headphone with precise imaging, but they're underwhelming on attack.  
  
 With the Elrogs I've paired EML, 596 and GZ34s.  The 596 is an excellent pairing but It was missing a little thump on the bottom end and didn't solve the attack problem of the HE1000.  I need to return to these soon, now that the HE1000 have more hours on them.  The GZ34 works well with the HE1000, and I've found them to be a great all-round tube.   I've had many versions the GZ34, I prefer the metal base, and in general, the older tubes seem to sound better.  Finding a matching pair of these is an expensive proposition.  They're not the most attractive tube, but for sound, I'm a fan.
  
 Power tubes-- I've tried bunches of them, I'm never 100% satisfied.  I have Treasure 2s which should sound amazing, but there's a harshness I can't seem to get past.  I've given up on them.  I've settled on RCAs for now, I also have Sylvania brown bases.  I've been trying to find smoked glass versions of the 6SN7s.  
  
 Added: Funny I was just talking about the entire chain.  I popped into iTunes to play a little music quick.  Nothing fancy, just a little B-52s.  Average file, a CD rip at 192kb/s at 44.1.  It sounded a little veiled, but listenable.  Just for fun I opened Fidelia and played the EXACT same file.  Astounding difference.  Like night and day.  The point?  Even tubes don't make a difference if the source is garbage.


----------



## Fririce0003

reeltime said:


> My approach to rolling-- It's not about the tubes alone.  Everything in the chain affects the other components.  This includes the HEADPHONES.  What works for one headphone may not work with another.  My 2 main headphones right now are the HE1000 and the HD800.
> 
> Don't have the Taks.  I may go there someday, I haven't bothered yet because the order process has been ridiculous.  With Woo carrying them now, I may.
> 
> ...


 
  
   That's very true about different tubes for different headphones, thought I was done with the tube rolling until I went from the Abyss to the HEK. Takatsuki 300b is still in permanence but the driver tubes have gone back to TSRP and I've still got to play around with rectifiers... More tube rolling fun to be had.
  
   The Takatsuki are well worth giving a go, they pair excellently with the HEK. They have all the speed of the Elrog but also add extra weight and impact to the bass and thicken up the mids. The leading edges are still sharp, crisp and immediate but they also have a nice euphonic decay compared to the Elrog's rather abrupt, comparatively mechanical, decay. Though we could also just like different types of sound, I didn't mind the Sylvania drivers, thought they were nicely detailed but lacked a little bottom end and impact as well as being a tad bright.
  
   The Mullard are certainly a great rectifier, fast, detailed and rather neutral. I'll have to try them out again, haven't tube rolled too much after receiving the HEK for demo. They aren't the most eye catching tube but they're built last, most likely they'll outlive the amps they're placed in! Got a nice matched pair 1957 stamped from the Holland factory and a spare just in case  Though it's not quite as necessary to match the rectifier tubes as it is to match the power and driver tubes. Plus the Mullards are so well built, if you get some with matching date stamps they're likely to match perfectly anyway.
  
   I never found the T2 Treasures agreeable, too harsh and grainy. Haven't found a good new production driver tube yet. Which RCA's are you using?
  
   The source is always the most important, that was highlighted for me when I went from using my laptop as a source to an Antipodes streamer. Don't think I'll ever go back to PC audio after hearing the improvement! Then after hearing the Computer Audio Design CAT and how much you could fine tune and adjust the sound using just the J-Play setting reiterated that fact. The DAC also plays a huge roll, got a DaVinci on loan... Going from the Vega to the DaVinci was a bigger upgrade than going from the WA5 to the 234's! And that was by no means a small improvement, if I knew it was that much of an improvement in quality and overall enjoyment I would've upgraded my DAC far sooner.
  
   Also as an aside; anyone auditioning the new WA5 with the plate and cathode output selectors, definitely give the Cathode a go. Superb sound, complex and delicate without loosing impact, detail or musicality. A very sophisticated sound, in the 234 at least I've found the cathode output to be preferable for my listening with all my headphones. In fact for both the Abyss and HEK the Cathode Lo-Z sound the best to my ears


----------



## Fririce0003




----------



## reeltime

fririce0003 said:


> The Takatsuki are well worth giving a go, they pair excellently with the HEK. They have all the speed of the Elrog but also add extra weight and impact to the bass and thicken up the mids. The leading edges are still sharp, crisp and immediate but they also have a nice euphonic decay compared to the Elrog's rather abrupt, comparatively mechanical, decay. Though we could also just like different types of sound, I didn't mind the Sylvania drivers, thought they were nicely detailed but lacked a little bottom end and impact as well as being a tad bright.
> 
> The Mullard are certainly a great rectifier, fast, detailed and rather neutral. I'll have to try them out again, haven't tube rolled too much after receiving the HEK for demo. They aren't the most eye catching tube but they're built last, most likely they'll outlive the amps they're placed in! Got a nice matched pair 1957 stamped from the Holland factory and a spare just in case  Though it's not quite as necessary to match the rectifier tubes as it is to match the power and driver tubes. Plus the Mullards are so well built, if you get some with matching date stamps they're likely to match perfectly anyway.
> 
> I never found the T2 Treasures agreeable, too harsh and grainy. Haven't found a good new production driver tube yet. Which RCA's are you using?


 
  
 Yeah, I've heard raves about the T2 and I just don't get it.  The RCA's are black base 6SN7GTs. 417 is the stamp.  It doesn't get in the way of the sound, but I'm sure there's better to be had.
  
 I've always liked the GZ34.  Like you said, not exciting to look at, but great sound.  If I decide to play with the Taks, I'll do the rectifier first.  
  
 I like the sound of the Elrogs.  As long as they keep working (fingers crossed) I'm not inclined to change them.  I had EML Mesh 300Bs, not a bad tube at all.  I like the Elrogs a little more for the bottom end push.  Honestly, though, the HE1000 has so much bass already, I probably don't need to worry much.  
  
 Oh-- DACs.. I'm on the Wyred4Sound DAC 2, without the upgrades.  Nice DAC.  I hear the upgrade ($1500 ish) is worth it, but I may just hold out and go for the Chord TT down the road.  I need the balanced outputs to drive my Genelecs.


----------



## isquirrel

I agree with Fririce0003 comments, One of my favourite combinations if I am after a little more speed but still getting a lovely euphony to the sound is the Mullard metal base GZ34, they are expensive but there price is in line with the other top rectifiers and it offers something that they don't don't which is a sweet coolness to the sound, fast and detailed and lively, they are one of my favourite 2 rectifiers. The god thing is that they last forever, a set will probably outlast me, I have heard that in a2 channel amor they are good for 80,000+ hours, in a headphone amp even longer. I seem to switch back and forth between the TSRP's and the RCA's. I have not gone down any alternative driver tubes as many have particularly Tony is the specialist there. I was advised a while ago by Woo that they can cause issues with humming and feedback so haven't seen the point in my system. Of corse I could be wrong and usually am, so I might be missing out on a really great sound. Hopefully one day when Tony comes for a visit we can try them. Mind you he has had success with the C3G's which are supposed to be the ultimate driver tube and I have had no luck.
  
 Listening to the Abyss this morning, if people think the HEK;s are bass heavy them I don't know what they must say about the Abyss as the bass is in a different league. In a perfect world there would be a headphone which had a mix of both and was as comfortable as the HEK's. MY new DAC the Kalliope has a very powerful bottom end it is thunderous through the Abyss. I used to have the Chord Hugo but preferred the QBD76 fir its lower end extension, I have not heard the TT but if it sorts that out it would be a great DAC.


----------



## TonyNewman

I have stopped using the C3Gs in my WA5 after getting word that Woo Audio say it is a bad idea. I never had any problems using them in the WA5, but better safe than sorry. I am keeping my stash of C3Gs for another (custom) amp that is designed to use the C3G driver. For those that haven't heard the C3G it is an amazingly transparent tube - almost brutally so. Not a lot of warmth from it, but detail and extension like nothing else. I think it needs careful pairing. I would expect a TA274B to work much better than a GZ34 with a C3G, for example.
  
 I have played with so many driver tubes over the past 2 years I must be nuts. I keep coming back to the TS RP and the NU. Love them both for my WA5 and WA6. NU has slightly less dynamics and detail than the TS RP, but brings some hefty mid range sweetness that can be divine. In the WA6 I really like the Brimar rectifier + NU 6F8Gs. Really great sound for a moderate outlay of cash. The WA5 needs NU 6C8Gs as the NU 6F8Gs struggle to drive the 300B and will go noisy.


----------



## isquirrel

Review of the Takatsuki 300B's comparing them to the the Western Electrics as well as the Shungang Black Treasures.
  
 http://www.dagogo.com/takatsuki-ta-300b-vacuum-tube-review


----------



## Gibsonmac

The new WA5 looks sic, but a $2300 price hike :/ will have to think about this one.


----------



## devilboy

tonynewman said:


> Philistine! :wink_face:


Lol!


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Philistine! :wink_face:


----------



## 3083joe

Really want to find a serp used. 
If anyone has one with a few hrs on it.


----------



## Khragon

You know that you don't have to pay the full $1200 for one. Washington audio, which is Sophia reseller, sells new ones at $800 with a 30 days warranty.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> You know that you don't have to pay the full $1200 for one. Washington audio, which is Sophia reseller, sells new ones at $800 with a 30 days warranty.


 
  
 And if I had done that with my most recent pair, I'd be out $800. Never, ever buy expensive tubes with a short warranty.


----------



## cheeseeater

My eyes are ready to fall out of my head from researching amps but I've narrowed my options down to 2 Woo amps:  WA2  and the WA6SE.  Basically I have  2 issues.
 1). I have and am very happy with my low impedance headphones (Fostex TH900) but I've read that the WA2 is not ideal for low impedance headphones.  
 2). The WA6SE is supposed to be better for low impedence headphones, but I've read that the WA6SE doesn't have the tubey sound.


----------



## joseph69

cheeseeater said:


> My eyes are ready to fall out of my head from researching amps but I've narrowed my options down to 2 Woo amps:  WA2  and the WA6SE.  Basically I have  2 issues.
> 1). I have and am very happy with my low impedance headphones (Fostex TH900) but I've read that the WA2 is not ideal for low impedance headphones.
> 2). The WA6SE is supposed to be better for low impedence headphones, but I've read that the WA6SE doesn't have the tubey sound.


 
 The WA6 is an excellent sounding amp with more tube rolling options than the SE.
 I've had mine for a while now and absolutely love it and would never part with it. And it has plenty of power…and with the money you save you can buy some tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 BTW I originally owned the WA6 then thought I was upgrading when I sold it to buy the SE (bad move for me) I didn't like its sound/tube options so I sold the SE 30-days later and bought another WA6…couldn't be happier.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> The WA6 is an excellent sounding amp with more tube rolling options than the SE.
> ...


 
  
 +1. With adapters it can take 6SN7/6F8G family of tubes. Lots and lots of possibilities with those.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> +1. With adapters it can take 6SN7/6F8G family of tubes. Lots and lots of possibilities with those.


----------



## Audiogalore

cheeseeater said:


> My eyes are ready to fall out of my head from researching amps but I've narrowed my options down to 2 Woo amps:  WA2  and the WA6SE.  Basically I have  2 issues.
> 1). I have and am very happy with my low impedance headphones (Fostex TH900) but I've read that the WA2 is not ideal for low impedance headphones.
> 2). The WA6SE is supposed to be better for low impedence headphones, but I've read that the WA6SE doesn't have the tubey sound.


 
 Well i do not know if I can agree with that theory. I had a WA-6SE and found it a top performer tube amp. I would probably still have it as a primary amp if I did not step up to the legendary WA5. 
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


>


 
  
 I am having a disgusting amount of fun with my HD600 + WA6 with the Brimar rectifier and NU 6F8Gs. Really nice sound.


----------



## joseph69

audiogalore said:


> *Well i do not know if I can agree with that theory.* I had a WA-6SE and found it a top performer tube amp. I would probably still have it as a primary amp if I did not step up to the
> legendary WA5.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 
 By all means this is just my opinion/suggestion.
 There's nothing wrong with the SE I just preferred the WA6.





 
  


tonynewman said:


> I am having a disgusting amount of fun with my HD600 + WA6 with the Brimar rectifier and NU 6F8Gs. Really nice sound.


----------



## Audiogalore

joseph69 said:


> By all means this is just my opinion/suggestion.
> There's nothing wrong with the SE I just preferred the WA6.


 
 Sure quite understood!
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## cheeseeater

joseph69 said:


> The WA6 is an excellent sounding amp with more tube rolling options than the SE.
> I've had mine for a while now and absolutely love it and would never part with it. And it has plenty of power…and with the money you save you can buy some tubes!
> BTW I originally owned the WA6 then thought I was upgrading when I sold it to buy the SE (bad move for me) I didn't like its sound/tube options so I sold the SE 30-days later and bought another WA6…couldn't be happier.







tonynewman said:


> +1. With adapters it can take 6SN7/6F8G family of tubes. Lots and lots of possibilities with those.



Interesting. I never considered the possibility that the wa6 might be better than the wa6se. Any one else think so?


----------



## Audiogalore

cheeseeater said:


> Interesting. I never considered the possibility that the wa6 might be better than the wa6se. Any one else think so?


 
 That depends on your phones and power needed to drive them.


----------



## TonyNewman

cheeseeater said:


> Interesting. I never considered the possibility that the wa6 might be better than the wa6se. Any one else think so?


 
  
 I wouldn't say 'better' - rather 'different'. WA6SE has significantly more power, which is a good thing. WA6 has more tube rolling possibilities with the 6SN7/6F8G drivers.
  
 WA6 pairs brilliantly with the HD600/HD650 headphones, if that appeals.


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> I have stopped using the C3Gs in my WA5 after getting word that Woo Audio say it is a bad idea. I never had any problems using them in the WA5, but better safe than sorry. I am keeping my stash of C3Gs for another (custom) amp that is designed to use the C3G driver. For those that haven't heard the C3G it is an amazingly transparent tube - almost brutally so. Not a lot of warmth from it, but detail and extension like nothing else. I think it needs careful pairing. I would expect a TA274B to work much better than a GZ34 with a C3G, for example.
> 
> I have played with so many driver tubes over the past 2 years I must be nuts. I keep coming back to the TS RP and the NU. Love them both for my WA5 and WA6. NU has slightly less dynamics and detail than the TS RP, but brings some hefty mid range sweetness that can be divine. In the WA6 I really like the Brimar rectifier + NU 6F8Gs. Really great sound for a moderate outlay of cash. The WA5 needs NU 6C8Gs as the NU 6F8Gs struggle to drive the 300B and will go noisy.


 

 Tony, how were the C3g(s) applied in your WA5, pentode or triode configuration?  I'm sitting on a stash of C3m(s) (i.e. the 20 volt filiment version of the C3g) for use on future projects as well.  I've heard the pentode configuration may sound better with the 300b.


----------



## cheeseeater

I'm going to pull the trigger on the wa6se. When I hear someone say more tube rolling possibilities my wallet screams in pain.


----------



## Audiogalore

cheeseeater said:


> I'm going to pull the trigger on the wa6se. When I hear someone say more tube rolling possibilities my wallet screams in pain.


 
 Great choice and give some feedback once you have determined the sound quality.


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> Tony, how were the C3g(s) applied in your WA5, pentode or triode configuration?  I'm sitting on a stash of C3m(s) (i.e. the 20 volt filiment version of the C3g) for use on future projects as well.  I've heard the pentode configuration may sound better with the 300b.


 
  
 I will PM you shortly.


----------



## cheeseeater

In Anticipation of the WA6SE I'm gonna need to modify my house to make them fit. I have niches built into the wall for my gear. But those rectifier tubes look pretty big. Can anyone tell me the minimum height clearance?


----------



## joseph69

cheeseeater said:


> Interesting. I never considered the possibility that the wa6 might be better than the wa6se. Any one else think so?


 
 Like @TonyNewman said…there different.
  


cheeseeater said:


> I'm going to pull the trigger on the wa6se. When I hear someone say more tube rolling possibilities my wallet screams in pain.


 
 Congratulations!


----------



## joseph69

cheeseeater said:


> In Anticipation of the WA6SE I'm gonna need to modify my house to make them fit. I have niches built into the wall for my gear. But those rectifier tubes look pretty big. Can anyone tell me the minimum height clearance?


 
 It depends on the tubes/adapters…plus I don't think you want the tubes/amp in an enclosed setting due to them giving off heat. The amp should be out in the open.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> It depends on the tubes/adapters…plus I don't think you want the tubes/amp in an enclosed setting due to them giving off heat. The amp should be out in the open.


 
  
 +1. Even the WA6 generates quite a bit of heat. You want lots of airflow around these things.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> The WA6 is an excellent sounding amp with more tube rolling options than the SE.
> I've had mine for a while now and absolutely love it and would never part with it. And it has plenty of power…and with the money you save you can buy some tubes!
> BTW I originally owned the WA6 then thought I was upgrading when I sold it to buy the SE (bad move for me) I didn't like its sound/tube options so I sold the SE 30-days later and bought another WA6…couldn't be happier.



Agreed. Wonderful amp. Hd700 sound wonderful in it also.


----------



## cheeseeater

Thanks. No worries. There will be lots of air flow. And the way I'm building it there will be a scalloped reflector to radiate heat. I'll have to post pics when I'm done.


----------



## devilboy

cheeseeater said:


> My eyes are ready to fall out of my head from researching amps but I've narrowed my options down to 2 Woo amps:  WA2  and the WA6SE.  Basically I have  2 issues.
> 1). I have and am very happy with my low impedance headphones (Fostex TH900) but I've read that the WA2 is not ideal for low impedance headphones.
> 2). The WA6SE is supposed to be better for low impedence headphones, but I've read that the WA6SE doesn't have the tubey sound.


I had the same decision to make. Since I bought the high Z Hd800 first, I went with the 2. Also, heard the 2 was the more"tube" sounding amp so went with that. After going all NOS (Mullard rectifier/Amperex driver/Tung-Sol Chatham power), to say I'm thrilled is an understatement. Waiting for shipment of the Draug 2 to complete the "tame the 800 brightness" package. If I had another headphone with lower impedance, I would've went with the 6. I think it's more of the correct move for your ' phones.


----------



## devilboy

I am NOT an expert regarding this issue btw..... LOL. Far from it. I just went by what I've read on the forums.


----------



## TonyNewman

devilboy said:


> I am NOT an expert regarding this issue btw..... LOL. Far from it. I just went by what I've read on the forums.


 
  
 On HeadFi that practically makes you a professor on the subject


----------



## meraias

this is getting cold, I was hoping to see a few pops of good reviews on the refreshed WA5LE, but sadly none?
 so the refresh is more of a feature refresh and not so much on sound and internals?


----------



## sathyam

I have been wanting to add a tube amp to my audio stable. The new WA5-LE is intriguing and so I have put in an order for it.
  
 Now for the 4-5 week wait time.


----------



## Gibsonmac

meraias said:


> this is getting cold, I was hoping to see a few pops of good reviews on the refreshed WA5LE, but sadly none?
> so the refresh is more of a feature refresh and not so much on sound and internals?


The new LE is basically the old 5 without speaker outs, so it has the high power xlr out. At least that's the only update that matters to me anyhow lol. 

But now that the 5 *appears to be full balanced, I think I'll be getting that instead of the balancing act.


----------



## longbowbbs

sathyam said:


> I have been wanting to add a tube amp to my audio stable. The new WA5-LE is intriguing and so I have put in an order for it.
> 
> Now for the 4-5 week wait time.


 
 It is a wonderful amp. I really enjoyed it at the SF Meet last weekend. The HE1000's paired beautifully with it.


----------



## Silent One

tonynewman said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > The WA6 is an excellent sounding amp with more tube rolling options than the SE.
> ...


 
  

  
_WooAudio WA6 Special Edition_
 1942-44 TS-BGRPs VT/231; 1957 USAF-596
  
 Moar? In 2010 barely 2 months passed before I was using 6SN7; 7N7, and preparing for others...ain't never looked back!


----------



## Krutsch

silent one said:


> _WooAudio WA6 Special Edition_
> *1942-44 TS-BGRPs VT/231; 1957 USAF-596*
> 
> Moar? In 2010 barely 2 months passed before I was using 6SN7; 7N7, and preparing for others...ain't never looked back!


 
  
 Wow. Just curious... where are you shopping for tubes from the '40s?


----------



## Silent One

krutsch said:


> Wow. Just curious... where are you shopping for tubes from the '40s?


 
 Picked up the Tung-Sol's from 'tc electronics' online...
 ...I miss my Woo!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

meraias said:


> this is getting cold, I was hoping to see a few pops of good reviews on the refreshed WA5LE, but sadly none?
> so the refresh is more of a feature refresh and not so much on sound and internals?


 
  
 We have a backlog of customer orders to fill before we can build review units for professional reviewers.  I guess that's a good problem to have...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This pairing is absolutely stunning (new WA5-LE).  The best I've heard out of TH900.  Settings at Lo power, Lo impedance, Lo level.  In this setting, I can ride the volume level between 3 o'clock to MAX. without any hint of listening fatigue or distortion.  It's so musical....
  

  


gibsonmac said:


> The new LE is basically the old 5 without speaker outs, so it has the high power xlr out. At least that's the only update that matters to me anyhow lol.
> 
> But now that the 5 *appears to be full balanced, I think I'll be getting that instead of the balancing act.


  

 The new settings feature is equally important to improve hp and amp pairing.
  
 new WA5 / WA5-LE is signal-ended design, not balanced.  The XLR input is for convenience.


----------



## Audiogalore

hifiguy528 said:


> We have a backlog of customer orders to fill before we can build review units for professional reviewers.  I guess that's a good problem to have...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What driver and rectifier tubes being used in this setup.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

hifiguy528 said:


> We have a backlog of customer orders to fill before we can build review units for professional reviewers.  I guess that's a good problem to have...


 
  
 Any ETA on updating your site?


----------



## Audiogalore

hifiguy528 said:


> We have a backlog of customer orders to fill before we can build review units for professional reviewers.  I guess that's a good problem to have...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Even though the unit is not balanced do not let that become your comparison justifying and considering between the two. The WA5/WA5-LE are much better in all aspects to the Balancing Act, built quality, finish, sound, control and diversity. Quite frankly it is like comparing apples for oranges. I know from my fact finding mission having the privilege and consumer of both products.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Badas

audiogalore said:


> Even though the unit is not balanced do not let that become your comparison justifying and considering between the two. The WA5/WA5-LE are much better in all aspects to the Balancing Act, built quality, finish, sound, control and diversity. Quite frankly it is like comparing apples for oranges. I know from my fact finding mission having the privilege and consumer of both products.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 

 I've never found balanced to be important.
  
 It was suppose to be for long cable runs. For concerts etc.
  
 I really don't think fellow HP members would get advantages from that.
  
 In some equipment you do get more gain from balanced (example Oppo HA-1), however I have compared between balanced and single ended in those occasions and the sound quality is identical.


----------



## Gibsonmac

badas said:


> I've never found balanced to be important.
> 
> It was suppose to be for long cable runs. For concerts etc.
> 
> ...


 really? I get a pretty substantial benefit going balanced, particularly on output... so much more dynamics and sparkle compared to SE(from the same amp), for me anyway. But to be fair, my wa6se sounds pretty damn good too. 

Pretty positive my next purchase will be another woo though, wa2, wa22, or wa5. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## Audiogalore

badas said:


> I've never found balanced to be important.
> 
> It was suppose to be for long cable runs. For concerts etc.
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely!


----------



## abvolt

I decided to go balanced with all my gear and am very happy with the sound, I'll also say woo makes such great sounding  & great looking amps..


----------



## TonyNewman

Some amps can throw considerably more power in balanced mode (like the Auralic Taurus) - some headphones respond to the increased power with better sound (better dynamics in particular).
  
 My HD800s sound noticeably better from the XLR output then the single ended output from my Taurus. It's a power thing. As far I know the signal is otherwise identical. For interconnects between DACs / amps / preamps / power amps ... etc I have never heard a difference between XLR/RCA in any of the A/B testing I have done.
  
 I prefer to use XLR purely for the better build quality of many XLR interconnects and I like the positive locking into the sockets that they do. Sonically, they are the same to my ears.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Some amps can throw considerably more power in balanced mode (like the Auralic Taurus) - some headphones respond to the increased power with better sound (better dynamics in particular).
> 
> My HD800s sound noticeably better from the XLR output then the single ended output from my Taurus. It's a power thing. As far I know the signal is otherwise identical. For interconnects between DACs / amps / preamps / power amps ... etc I have never heard a difference between XLR/RCA in any of the A/B testing I have done.
> 
> *I prefer to use XLR purely for the better build quality of many XLR interconnects and I like the positive locking into the sockets that they do. *Sonically, they are the same to my ears.


 
  
 That's the real reason I like XLR as well. I haven't heard any difference but the solid plug is nice. Plus I have a 5 meter XLR extender cable which works nice. Enables me to sit next to a window.


----------



## 3083joe

I have to say. There just isn't any comparing any 6sn7 to 6f8g. 6f8 is just some much better.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I have to say. There just isn't any comparing any 6sn7 to 6f8g. 6f8 is just some much better.


 

 + 1
  
 I mucked around with every type of 6SN7 for ages. I didn't want to do the whole wire thing. As soon as I put in my first 6F8G (NU) there was no going back. 6SN7 has not made it back to my amp.
  
 I have to say also that I experimented with every type of 6F8G. NU was a mile ahead of everything else. Until I put in the Tung-Sol round plates. I will never have any other type now. Hence I have collected 14 pairs of them (28 tubes).


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> I have to say. There just isn't any comparing any 6sn7 to 6f8g. 6f8 is just some much better.


 


badas said:


> + 1
> I mucked around with every type of 6SN7 for ages. I didn't want to do the whole wire thing. As soon as I put in my first 6F8G (NU) there was no going back. 6SN7 has not made it back to my amp.
> I have to say also that I experimented with every type of 6F8G. NU was a mile ahead of everything else. Until I put in the Tung-Sol round plates. I will never have any other type now. Hence I have collected 14 pairs of them (28 tubes).


 
I find both the 6SN7/6F8G's to be very good tubes with different rectifier combos…I wouldn't say one blows the other away, but they offer a different sound which I enjoy from both.


----------



## Gibsonmac

Ok, I have heard so much conflicting info about the 6sn7 and wa6se, one guy says they work, another guy says they don't, this guy says "yes huh, with Glenn's handy dandy adapters they do," then the last guy says NO IT WILL EXPLODE (ok, so maybe not really explode).

So, does anyone know, for sure, if you can use a 6sn7 tube with some special adapters, and have it safely work with the wa6se?


----------



## TonyNewman

gibsonmac said:


> Ok, I have heard so much conflicting info about the 6sn7 and wa6se, one guy says they work, another guy says they don't, this guy says "yes huh, with Glenn's handy dandy adapters they do," then the last guy says NO IT WILL EXPLODE (ok, so maybe not really explode).
> 
> So, does anyone know, for sure, if you can use a 6sn7 tube with some special adapters, and have it safely work with the wa6se?


 
  
 My understanding - special adapters are required - which Glenn might or might not still be making.
  
 Doing this might, just might, void any warranty with Woo Audio. So if the warranty is something you want to retain it might be worth checking with the Woo folks before you put 6SN7s / 6F8Gs in a WA6SE (or make a purchasing decision with the intent to use 6SN7 / 6F8G in the amp).
  
 Below is the 'official' Woo compatibility chart from their website - note the comment on 6SN7:


----------



## joseph69

gibsonmac said:


> Ok, I have heard so much conflicting info about the 6sn7 and wa6se, one guy says they work, another guy says they don't, this guy says "yes huh, with Glenn's handy dandy adapters they do," then the last guy says NO IT WILL EXPLODE (ok, so maybe not really explode).
> 
> So, does anyone know, for sure, if you can use a 6sn7 tube with some special adapters, and have it safely work with the wa6se?


 
 People do use Glenn's 6DE7>6SN7 adapters with their WA6-SE and I haven't read of anyone having any issues. But Jack says the 6SN7 should not be used in the WA6-SE. If your that concerned, I would contact Jack being it is his amp design…and on the other hand its obvious Glenn knows what he is doing with making these adapter work fine with the 6SN7 in the WA6-SE.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> My understanding - special adapters are required - *which Glenn might or might not still be making.*


 
 Glenn had stopped making them at one point, but is now making them again.


----------



## joseph69

Here is the Woo Audio Compatibility Chart


----------



## Silent One

Both sides are correct but proper adapters are needed (cathode resistor and bypass capacitor) for the _'6 Special Edition.'_
 Well, if memory serves...


----------



## 3083joe

Trying out some brimar 6sn7s with the brimar u52 
Very nice sound. 
Very transparent


----------



## HiFiGuy528

audiogalore said:


> What driver and rectifier tubes being used in this setup.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 
  
 Stock NOS 6SN7, stock Psavne 274b, & upgrade Sophia 300b


----------



## 3083joe

hifiguy528 said:


> Stock NOS 6SN7, stock Psavne 274b, & upgrade Sophia 300b



What do you think of psavne


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> What do you think of psavne


 

 Woo stocks them. So biased question.
  
 Watch out they blow up. Tony got damage to his WA5 from a Psavne. He had to get all his caps replaced. Suppose to be dry sounding.
  
 Edit: I will probably get banned for that comment. You have to be careful. Manufacturers read the threads.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Woo stocks them. So biased question.
> 
> Watch out they blow up. Tony got damage to his WA5 from a Psavne. He had to get all his caps replaced. Suppose to be dry sounding.
> 
> Edit: I will probably get banned for that comment. You have to be careful. Manufacturers read the threads.



Makes sense why they are so cheap. Looks like almost all new tubes are dry. At least compared to NOS.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Makes sense why they are so cheap. Looks like almost all new tubes are dry. At least compared to NOS.


 
  
 Good. Clean and tidy examples of NOS tubes are most often the best option. Just need to do some hunting.
  
 With regards to the WA5 there are good new production 300B tube offerings by new manufacturers. New tubes are often the best option. Not everyone can find WE 300B's in NOS. Also there is talk that the TAK 300B's are better.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Good. Clean and tidy examples of NOS tubes are most often the best option. Just need to do some hunting.
> 
> With regards to the WA5 there are good new production 300B tube offerings by new manufacturers. New tubes are often the best option. Not everyone can find WE 300B's in NOS. Also there is talk that the TAK 300B's are better.



Right. 
As for 300b see several new ones that sound great. 
Hope to get my hands on a wa5 or 300b Glenn amp in the near future.


----------



## joseph69

So I picked up some Deoxit the other day for my 1 noisy 6F8G and cleaned the pins and placed it back in the (R-channel) were it came from and believe it or not it got worse! So I decided to try it in the (L-channel) and it was better but still a little bit of noise…I have switched a noisy tube to the opposite channels before (without Deoxit) in my Lyr and the noise went away. [size=x-small]So, its been a few days since I cleaned/switched the channel and it is very very good, once in a while I'll hear a bit of distortion, but it is getting much less  [/size]every time[size=x-small] I use my amp, almost to the point of dead silent! [/size]


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> So I picked up some Deoxit the other day for my 1 noisy 6F8G and cleaned the pins and placed it back in the (R-channel) were it came from and believe it or not it got worse! So I decided to try it in the (L-channel) and it was better but still a little bit of noise…I have switched a noisy tube to the opposite channels before (without Deoxit) in my Lyr and the noise went away. [size=x-small]So, its been a few days since I cleaned/switched the channel and it is very very good, once in a while I'll hear a bit of distortion, but it is getting much less  [/size]every time[size=x-small] I use my amp, almost to the point of dead silent! [/size]


 

 DeOxit won't fix every tube. Some tubes are just bad.
  
 A lot of the time noise is from oxidized pins. All DeOxit will do is clean the pins. If the pins are at fault DeOxit will fix. 
  
 Have you noticed other changes? I did all my tubes and adapters. I noticed a lower noise level and smoother overall sound.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> DeOxit won't fix every tube. Some tubes are just bad.
> A lot of the time noise is from oxidized pins. All DeOxit will do is clean the pins. If the pins are at fault DeOxit will fix.
> Have you noticed other changes? I did all my tubes and adapters. I noticed a lower noise level and smoother overall sound.


 
 I haven't noticed or done any of my other tubes being they are dead silent, but like I said only on some occasions I'm hearing a little quick distortion noise, then it gone, so the tube is definitely heading toward being dead silent.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I haven't noticed or done any of my other tubes being they are dead silent, but like I said only on some occasions I'm hearing a little quick distortion noise, then it gone, so the tube is definitely heading toward being dead silent.


 

 The other thing I have had others tell me is that sometimes if the pins are dirty when you remove the tube some of the crap stays in the connection. Occasionally if you install a tube in and out with DeOxit on the pins it will clear the connection.


----------



## TonyNewman

A little background - the tube that blew in my WA5 was a Psvane CV-181 T2 (6SN7 compatible). When it blew it took out 2 caps. A bit messy and smelly.
  
 I have used other Psvane tubes that have been fine (WE274B replica and WE300B replica). These are nice sounding tubes. Pricey, but they have a good sound and I have had no issues with them at all.
  
 The CV-181 T2 is very detailed, balanced and extended, but also very dry. I think the RCA 6C8G is a similar sounding tube (if not better) and that can be had for around 5 bucks a piece. So why bother?


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> The other thing I have had others tell me is that sometimes if the pins are dirty when you remove the tube some of the crap stays in the connection. Occasionally if you install a tube in and out with DeOxit on the pins it will clear the connection.


 
 This may very well have been the case with the 6F8G's because I did notice black debris on the tube sockets when I removed the tubes a few times, so I pressed a piece of tape on the sockets to remove it so it wouldn't get into the socket holes. I had also thought about spraying some Deoxit on to a pipe cleaner and running it into the sockets while spinning them at the same time…but then decided not to being I didn't want to damage anything in the amp or possibly leave debris from the pipe cleaner inside the sockets/amp. Have you/anyone ever ever tried this?


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> The CV-181 T2 is very detailed, balanced and extended, but also very dry. I think the RCA 6C8G is a similar sounding tube (if not better) and that can be had for around 5 bucks a piece. So why bother?


 
  
 I've had a pair of these in a box for 2 years now.  I pull them out now and again and give them a try-- they won't fit the WA5 or WA5LE with Elrogs.  
  
 My long-time complaint is there's a harshness in the upper mids which borders on distortion.  I can't get comfy with these tubes for some reason, and back in the box they go.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> I've had a pair of these in a box for 2 years now.  I pull them out now and again and give them a try-- they won't fit the WA5 or WA5LE with Elrogs.
> 
> My long-time complaint is there's a harshness in the upper mids which borders on distortion.  I can't get comfy with these tubes for some reason, and back in the box they go.


 
  
 Paired with a dark rectifier (like the PSvane WE274B) they can be tolerable, but for the price they should have been a heck of a lot better than they are. That dry/harsh character is hard to take. Mine went in the bin a few months ago - don't miss them at all.


----------



## TonyNewman

Mr FedEx just dropped these off at my door. Oh my, oh my, oh my. Rampant tube lust frenzy underway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 My second hand set doing some burn in with the WA5 and some TS RP 6C8Gs:
  

  
 My previous tube setup (SERPs + TS RPs + Brimars) was very good. The Taks definitely lift the SQ up a notch or two.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Mr FedEx just dropped these off at my door. Oh my, oh my, oh my. Rampant tube lust frenzy underway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Best pic I have seen for a while. Looks so great.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Mr FedEx just dropped these off at my door. Oh my, oh my, oh my. Rampant tube lust frenzy underway :tongue_smile:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful my friend.


----------



## TonyNewman

The Taks are pricey, but the sound... crack for audio heads.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> Mr FedEx just dropped these off at my door. Oh my, oh my, oh my. Rampant tube lust frenzy underway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You have 2 pare of TAKs now?


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> You have 2 pare of TAKs now?


 
  
 One pair of TA274B, two pairs of TA300B.
  
 TA274Bs and one pair 300B go in the WA5. The latest acquisition is for use in the upcoming 300B amp from your good self. You didn't think I would put anything less in it, did you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Headfier getting treatment for obsessive tube hoarding... must ... buy ... more ... tubes ...


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > You have 2 pare of TAKs now?
> ...


 

 These tubes cost more then the amps  Crazy


----------



## joseph69




----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> These tubes cost more then the amps  Crazy


 
  
 Then you charge too low for your amps...jack 'em up!


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> These tubes cost more then the amps  Crazy


 
  
 A full set for the WA5 comes pretty close. Fortunately the Glenn amp only uses the 300Bs.
  
 They are freaky expensive, but all the very top end 300Bs are. Compared to vintage WE300B / WE274B they are practically cheap.


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> Then you charge too low for your amps...jack 'em up!


 
  
 Please wait until I have mine safely delivered before putting such ideas in Glenn's head


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Please wait until I have mine safely delivered before putting such ideas in Glenn's head :wink_face:




I want to get my hands on One of Glenn's amps.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> I want to get my hands on One of Glenn's amps.


 
  
 I am very much looking forward to that myself


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I want to get my hands on One of Glenn's amps.


 

 Don't we all. A piece of art.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Don't we all. A piece of art.



Might try in the near future. 
2359glenn


----------



## masterfuu

Very happy with my wa7 with upgraded tubes. Runs great on alpha dogs and th900


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Might try in the near future.
> @2359glenn


 
  
 Thinking about it. I don't want a 300B type tube amp tho. Too expensive for the tubes.


masterfuu said:


> Very happy with my wa7 with upgraded tubes. Runs great on alpha dogs and th900


 
  
 Also a piece of art. You should be happy.


----------



## TonyNewman

masterfuu said:


> Very happy with my wa7 with upgraded tubes. Runs great on alpha dogs and th900


 
  


badas said:


> ...
> Also a piece of art. You should be happy.


 
  
 WA7 is mighty purdy (for those that have seen Deliverance more than once).


----------



## Gibsonmac

Where is a good source for takatsuki tubes? I've been a Google-ing away, but not finding much in English.


----------



## TonyNewman

gibsonmac said:


> Where is a good source for takatsuki tubes? I've been a Google-ing away, but not finding much in English.


 
  
 Woo Audio can supply them. I got mine from Price Japan - they were great to deal with.


----------



## whirlwind

3083joe said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Please wait until I have mine safely delivered before putting such ideas in Glenn's head
> ...


 
 Get in line


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Headfier getting treatment for obsessive tube hoarding... must ... buy ... more ... tubes ...


 
  
 That's me, alright. Just bought a set of GEC "Brown Base" 6AS7Gs to give the WEs a rest.
  
 After reading all of those old posts from @Dubstep Girl on how wonderful they are, I couldn't resist.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

gibsonmac said:


> Where is a good source for takatsuki tubes? I've been a Google-ing away, but not finding much in English.


 
  
 Woo Audio is authorized reseller in the U.S.  Ships from our shop in New York, USA.
  


tonynewman said:


> Mr FedEx just dropped these off at my door. Oh my, oh my, oh my. Rampant tube lust frenzy underway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 such as sweeeet.... setup.  congrats!


----------



## TonyNewman

hifiguy528 said:


> Woo Audio is authorized reseller in the U.S.  Ships from our shop in New York, USA.
> 
> 
> such as sweeeet.... setup.  congrats!


 
  
 Thanks. The Taks are very special tubes. Only downside is the price, but I like to think of it as getting SQ right up there at the same level (or better than) NOS vintage WE300B / WE274B. Those tubes make the Taks look inexpensive


----------



## Stereolab42

Nice tubes! I'm going to stick with my SERPs for now though, I've reached the point where I know I'm within a couple percent of "as good as it gets"... (although the Abyss is whispering naughty rhymes in my ear...)


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Nice tubes! I'm going to stick with my SERPs for now though, I've reached the point where I know I'm within a couple percent of "as good as it gets"... (although the Abyss is whispering naughty rhymes in my ear...)


 
  
 The SERPs are very good tubes. I am keeping mine. From what I have heard on the WA5 so far they do outperform the Taks in extension at the extremes (the Taks are good at this, but the SERPs are better). In just about any other way the Taks are better to my ears. Especially the mids - the WE300B magic that folks rave about with the old tubes - the Taks do that a LOT better than the SERPs. If you are into vocal centric music, then the Taks are something worth checking out.
  
 Keep in mind my tubes in the WA5 had 350 hours on them when I got them, and would be pushing 400 hours now, so they are not yet quite at their best. I am told that takes 500 hours (same as a vintage WE300B).
  
 A tube that doesn't get much loving is the TA274B rectifier. Early days at the moment for me with this tube, but my view so far is that this tube has done more for my SQ than the TA300B. In other words, the jump from Brimar to TA274B is a bigger one than from SERP to TA300B. This is very subjective so please take it with a big grain of salt, but that is what I am hearing so far. I need to get the Taks fully burned in, and then do some rolling with the SERPs and Brimars to investigate this further.


----------



## cs098

I don't know why, but I had my wa6 for a long time, yet I never posted here.
  
 Anyways just bought these.
They are the JAN-5R4WGB (gz34) Raytheon, these tubes were used in military aircraft, so they are able to withstand alot of air pressure. I think these will last for quite a few years. Mine are also made during the 1950s. Paid 60 CAD for them from Ring Audio.

As for the sound, the first thing I notice vs my old Sophia Princess 274B is:

A: A lack of treble/upper hardness at loud volumes

B: A far more holographic soundstage

As for weakness, I think the raytheons just might be slight less detailed in bass. But we'll see as the tubes/my brain burns in. It's also less tubey (read: harmonic distortion) sounding but you won't mistake this as a solid state. The tubes offer a bit more detail and the center instrument placement is slightly off for some songs. It's also alot less pretty FWIW, but I think its got its charm from a historical and utilitarian standpoint.

 

And a question, Ring audio also had 2 6fd7s for 50 cad, but they weren't matched. If I were to plug them in regardless, what would happen?

.


----------



## abvolt

I have one of those very cool looking tube no doubt have you tried a 5v4g yet it has greater detail I find it a lot better than the 5r4wgb, most of my tubes are not matched either..


----------



## joseph69

cs098 said:


> I don't know why, but I had my wa6 for a long time, yet I never posted here.
> Anyways just bought these.
> They are the JAN-5R4WGB (gz34) Raytheon, these tubes were used in military aircraft, so they are able to withstand alot of air pressure. I think these will last for quite a few years. Mine are also made during the 1950s. Paid 60 CAD for them from Ring Audio.
> 
> ...


 


abvolt said:


> I have one of those very cool looking tube no doubt have you tried a 5v4g yet it has greater detail I find it a lot better than the 5r4wgb, most of my tubes are not matched either..


 
 You both need to get your hands on the Brimar 5Z4G and try that in your WA6.


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> You both need to get your hands on the Brimar 5Z4G and try that in your WA6.


+1 for sure.


----------



## abvolt

Thank you *joseph69* I already have 4 of them and they are really good, I was only mentioning the 5v4g because it's a really good & inexpensive rectifier that's a whole lot better sounding then the 5r4wgb imo..


----------



## joseph69

abvolt said:


> Thank you *joseph69* I already have 4 of them and they are really good, I was only mentioning the 5v4g because it's a really good & inexpensive rectifier that's a whole lot better sounding then the 5r4wgb imo..


 
 Great, didn't know you had them, excellent tube, especially for the price!


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> You both need to get your hands on the Brimar 5Z4G and try that in your WA6.


 
  
 This tube pairs really well with the National Union 6F8G in the WA6. Lovely, warm sound.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> This tube pairs really well with the National Union 6F8G in the WA6. Lovely, warm sound.


 
 Been listening to this tube combo in my WA6 for about 4hrs now with my GH-1's…fantastic!


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Been listening to this tube combo in my WA6 for about 4hrs now with my GH-1's…fantastic!


 
  
 NU 6F8G/6C8G are great tubes. The TS RP betters it a little technically, but the NU has a wonderful sweetness that I really like, especially with vocals in the WA6.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> NU 6F8G/6C8G are great tubes. The TS RP betters it a little technically, but the NU has a wonderful sweetness that I really like, especially with vocals in the WA6.


 
 +1


----------



## Badas

+1 for the Tung-Sol RP. However the NU is sooooooo very close in sound.


----------



## isquirrel

Thought I would provide some burn in logs and notes for the Takatsuki's they appear pretty consistent as there have been couple of sets through now and are the same findings as Fririce0003


----------



## Badas

^
  
 That's really cool. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Silent One

badas said:


> ^
> 
> That's really cool. Thanks for posting.


 
 +1


----------



## isquirrel

if anyone wants my entire log of burn in times let me know & I will put that up


----------



## JamesBr

joseph69 said:


> Been listening to this tube combo in my WA6 for about 4hrs now with my GH-1's…fantastic!


 
  
 Did you feel the jalousy yet? I sent you a strong vibe


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> if anyone wants my entire log of burn in times let me know & I will put that up


 

 Throw them up. It is very interesting.


----------



## isquirrel

There you go, can't do the entire spreadsheet its too big, anyone that wants that, please PM me


----------



## joseph69

jamesbr said:


> Did you feel the jalousy yet? I sent you a strong vibe


 
 I thought I felt something strange after posting that!


----------



## comzee

Long time WA7 owner. It was my first plunge into some serious gear. I've been using it as intended, both DAC/Amp.
 I heard around head-fi from different threads that the WA7's DAC isn't that great. 
  
 I recently upgraded to a Master 7 (dac) from Audio-GD. I was expecting a good jump, but not this...
 The difference is miles. I wouldn't even call it a difference, I would call it something completely different. It's as if I've never really "heard" music before. That's not hyperbolized.
  
 Unfortunately I live in a microcosm of comparison. I've only heard regular desktop / portable music player DACs, the WA7 DAC, and now the Master 7. 
 I'm not sure what kind of stepping stones are between the two. I'd personally say it's a sin to pair the PCM5102A into the WA7, it a gross disservices to the amp.
  
 My question is, if the jump was massive between WA7 vs. M7 DAC, am I going to get the same type of jump from a better Woo amp?
 I was thinking in a few month I'd pick up the WA22 from Woo. Am I going to get that massive WOW factor from an upgrade like this?


----------



## masterfuu

comzee said:


> Long time WA7 owner. It was my first plunge into some serious gear. I've been using it as intended, both DAC/Amp.
> I heard around head-fi from different threads that the WA7's DAC isn't that great.
> 
> I recently upgraded to a Master 7 (dac) from Audio-GD. I was expecting a good jump, but not this...
> ...


so when you say difference is miles is it a positive difference or just same as stock dac but just different sound ? Can you describe the differences in more detail please. I'm proud owner of wa7 and there have been different opinions on the dac. Some claim even $100 dac from a schiit is better some say you need to spend $1000 on dac to get a noticable upgrade.


----------



## joseph69

comzee said:


> I was thinking in a few month I'd pick up the WA22 from Woo. Am I going to get that massive WOW factor from an upgrade like this?


 
 Never heard a WA22 but owned the WA6, sold it, bought the WA6SE, sold it, and bought another WA6 because I preferred its sound/tube rolling options over the more expensive WA6SE. Its a matter of preference/what *you* hear. So my point is, yes you will hear differences between Woo amps, especially with rolling different tubes, just like you heard differences between DAC's.
  


masterfuu said:


> Some claim even $100 dac from a schiit is better some say you need to spend $1000 on dac to get a noticable upgrade.


 
 I have 3 DAC's…Meridian 203/Rega DAC/Schiit Modi…though they all have different sounds, theres nothing wrong with the Schiit Modi!


----------



## bpcans

masterfuu said:


> so when you say difference is miles is it a positive difference or just same as stock dac but just different sound ? Can you describe the differences in more detail please. I'm proud owner of wa7 and there have been different opinions on the dac. Some claim even $100 dac from a schiit is better some say you need to spend $1000 on dac to get a noticable upgrade.


masterfuu, you've really hit on the proverbial $64K question. In fact I believe Light Harmonic Electronics would be happy to build you a dedicated DAC for several tens of thousands of dollars. There is definitely a cost benefit analysis that has to be done when you're going to upgrade any part of a music listening equipment chain. As an example some people plug $2K hp's into an iPhone. Personally I didn't notice a big difference in the sound of any DAC from around $300 to $2000. Just my $0.02.


----------



## comzee

masterfuu said:


> Can you describe the differences in more detail please.
> Some claim even $100 dac from a schiit is better some say you need to spend $1000 on dac to get a noticable upgrade.


 
  
 It depends on the headphones, I own HD800 which are unadulterated. They let you hear any micro detail, great test bed for trying different equipment.
 Again, I couldn't say the difference between the Schiit and a more expensive DAC, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Schiit or something like this: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/ would outperform the WA7's DAC. 
  
  


masterfuu said:


> Can you describe the differences in more detail please.


 
  
 I'm not a great reviewer...
 I'm a realist, I immediately invalidate anybodies review if they are spending 100 (if not 1000s) of dollars on cables and say it makes a difference.
 One (which I consider cancerous) aspect of Head-Fi is the rhetoric. People like to feel special about their $5000 amp and give hot air reviews.
 That's just a setup to tell you where I'm at in my review. I tell it straight.
  
 The WA7 DAC sucks compared to the M7.Unfortunately I can't give any in-between comparisons.
 To give you an idea though, going from my desktop DAC to the PCM5102A in the WA7 is something like a 20% jump in enjoyable music listening. The M7 from the WA7, I would consider closer to 80%. I know my metric of "enjoyable music listening" is not great, but at the end of the day it's all that matters for me. I could never go back to the WA7 DAC after listening to the M7. There's not even in the same league, let alone in the same solar system.


----------



## 3083joe

comzee said:


> Long time WA7 owner. It was my first plunge into some serious gear. I've been using it as intended, both DAC/Amp.
> I heard around head-fi from different threads that the WA7's DAC isn't that great.
> 
> I recently upgraded to a Master 7 (dac) from Audio-GD. I was expecting a good jump, but not this...
> ...



I would say YES!
Wa7 in my opinion is the worse amp dac woo makes because they compromise to have both in one unit. 
I have experienced the same thing in my recent dac upgrade. Went from portable to parodise dac to $1500 pro-ject dac and the difference was night and day. 
Enjoy what you have and upgrade as you can. Wa22 would be a big step tho.


----------



## Badas

comzee said:


> Long time WA7 owner. It was my first plunge into some serious gear. I've been using it as intended, both DAC/Amp.
> I heard around head-fi from different threads that the WA7's DAC isn't that great.
> 
> I recently upgraded to a Master 7 (dac) from Audio-GD. I was expecting a good jump, but not this...
> ...


 
  
 I tried a WA7 for a short time. I found that it was too close to Solid State sounding. So I didn't go down that path. I didn't try with a different DAC as I didn't have one on hand. I did eventually change my DAC from Oppo HA-1 to Arcam irDAC.
  
 I do own a WA22. I can say with stock tubes it is fairly average at best. However the more you roll tubes the greater the enjoyment. Difference between stock and rolled is huge. The Wow factor as you put it is huge.
  
 I can play a piece of music through the Arcam DAC into very good speakers and it's nice. Then plug my LCD-3's into the Oppo HA-1 (solid state) and it is very very good. Plug into the Woo WA22 and it leaves everything else behind. Nothing in the system gets close.
  
 Oh! maybe vinyl and speakers gets close.


----------



## comzee

badas said:


> Difference between stock and rolled is huge. The Wow factor as you put it is huge.


 
 Would you recommend starting out with the upgrade tubes Woo offers for the WA22, or buy them third market off tubeman / Ebay ect... ?


----------



## Badas

comzee said:


> Would you recommend starting out with the upgrade tubes Woo offers for the WA22, or buy them third market off tubeman / Ebay ect... ?


 

 Third party dude. Woo is way overpriced. Plus his tubes lean towards bright and detailed. You may not like that. I don't.
  
 You will want to research about tube sounds. Lot's of info. I will post the threads when you are ready. Then ask. Like I want something a tad darker and more full bodied. Members will help.
  
 With the WA22 I tend to think of the tubes like this:
  
 Drive tubes influence the sound by 50%
 Rectifier influence the sound by 40%
 Power tubes influence the sound by 10%
  
 Note# Nothing scientific about the above just my personal observations.
  
 So start with the tubes that make the largest difference. Then tweak to perfection.


----------



## jhljhl

comzee said:


> Would you recommend starting out with the upgrade tubes Woo offers for the WA22, or buy them third market off tubeman / Ebay ect... ?





comzee said:


> Would you recommend starting out with the upgrade tubes Woo offers for the WA22, or buy them third market off tubeman / Ebay ect... ?




The WA22 stock tubes sound polite. But rolling NOS tubes will increase dynamics and increase holographic and sound stage. Would recommend 5998 power tubes and one of the rectifiers recommended by dubstep girl on her evaluation thread. 6sn7 tubes recs thread is on headfi as well.


----------



## 3083joe

comzee said:


> Would you recommend starting out with the upgrade tubes Woo offers for the WA22, or buy them third market off tubeman / Ebay ect... ?



For sure buy 3rd party. Woo doesn't carry any really good tubes(Sophia electric is closest and I wasn't impressed) but NOS is the best imo. Brimar rectifiers and 6f8g drivers can't be completed for the money. And all of them are great improvement over stock.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> For sure buy 3rd party. Woo doesn't carry any really good tubes...





> ... And all of them are great improvement over stock.


 
  
 Disagree with the first bit. Woo have stocked the SERP for ages (a very good tube, but perhaps overpriced @ 1200 USD). They now also stock the best tubes I have ever heard - the TA300B and TA274B. Your wallet will barf, but your ears will love you for it.
  
 Totally agree on the second part. Those stock tubes are vomit inducing compared to better glass.


----------



## Exidrion

New WA5 seems way way overpriced considering the upgrades. Then again this coming from a company that recommends ridiculous cables.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Disagree with the first bit. Woo have stocked the SERP for ages (a very good tube, but perhaps overpriced @ 1200 USD). They now also stock the best tubes I have ever heard - the TA300B and TA274B. Your wallet will barf, but your ears will love you for it.
> 
> Totally agree on the second part. Those stock tubes are vomit inducing compared to better glass.


 
  
 That might be the case for the WA5 and WA234. However the tubes Woo stocks as upgrades for the WA22 are not good.
  
 Unless you like bright, dry and ultra detail. There will be some who do.


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Disagree with the first bit. Woo have stocked the SERP for ages (a very good tube, but perhaps overpriced @ 1200 USD). They now also stock the best tubes I have ever heard - the TA300B and TA274B. Your wallet will barf, but your ears will love you for it.
> 
> Totally agree on the second part. Those stock tubes are vomit inducing compared to better glass.


Tony, just for barfs sake mind you, how much does a TA274B tube cost? I do believe I can keep down my rather spicy evening repast. You see yesterday was taco Tuesday and the Mrs. served leftovers tonight.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Tony, just for barfs sake mind you, how much does a TA274B tube cost? I do believe I can keep down my rather spicy evening repast. You see yesterday was taco Tuesday and the Mrs. served leftovers tonight.


 
  
 The TA274B goes for around 1000 USD_* per tube*_.
  
 The TA300B goes for around 1300 USD _*per pair*_.
  
 If you can keep your dinner down after that you have a very strong stomach 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was lucky enough to purchase my TAs from a buddy second hand, otherwise I would have struggled with the cost.
  
 I purchased a second set of TA300B (for my upcoming Glenn 300B amp) from Japan Direct (who were great to deal with) but I have since found out that Woo Audio also stock them (TA300B and TA274B).
  
 The combination of TA300B + TA274B + TS RP in the WA5 is kinda special. Mine aren't fully settled in yet. I was mistaken on the initial hours on them - they are at around 230 hours right now and are just coming out of a mildly harsh/rough sounding patch. I need to double that figure to get them fully settled in.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Disagree with the first bit. Woo have stocked the SERP for ages (a very good tube, but perhaps overpriced @ 1200 USD). They now also stock the best tubes I have ever heard - the TA300B and TA274B. Your wallet will barf, but your ears will love you for it.
> 
> Totally agree on the second part. Those stock tubes are vomit inducing compared to better glass.



Didn't realize we where talking 300b and didn't really woo sold TAs 
How are the TA274Bs?


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Didn't realize we where talking 300b and didn't really woo sold TAs
> How are the TA274Bs?


 
  
 Keep in mind they are not yet at their best, but 'stunning' would be the word I would use.
  
 I was previously using the Brimar rectifier - a fine tube available for a great price - but it could get a little bit woolly and lose in the bass. TA274B doesn't do that. Bass is taut and deep and delicious - almost solid state in quality, but still with that tube character we love. Stunning tube at a stunningly big price.
  
 I have put the question to folks that have the WE274B / WE422A / TA274B and the feedback I get is that the TA274B is king of the hill. I can't say myself, as I have never heard the WE274B / WE422A.


----------



## MIKELAP

exidrion said:


> New WA5 seems way way overpriced considering the upgrades. Then again this coming from a company that recommends ridiculous cables.


 

 Before i bought my WA22 i did some reading regarding balanced HP cables and found out like you i guess that it wasnt necessary and like you i was recommended balanced cables by them for the ultimate experience rightttt...........  I had a Cardas cable made a few years back i wanted a shorter cable and at the same time i tought i will see if theres a difference well to me there isnt .


----------



## abvolt

Here's my 2 cents and I would agree with everyone else the upgraded tubes from woo are simply not that good & over priced go with NOS way better sounding..


----------



## Sko0byDoo

tonynewman said:


> The TA274B goes for around 1000 USD_* per tube*_.
> 
> The TA300B goes for around 1300 USD _*per pair*_.


 
  
 Ouch...and WA5 needs two 274Bs!
  
 Haven't burn-in my TA300B yet.  Still try to push the ER300B to the breaking point; ~400 hrs and still kicking (fingers crossed).  If not for the failing issue, the ER300B's are great.


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> Ouch...and WA5 needs two 274Bs!
> 
> Haven't burn-in my TA300B yet.  Still try to push the ER300B to the breaking point; ~400 hrs and still kicking (fingers crossed).  If not for the failing issue, the ER300B's are great.


 
  
 I so hope Elrog can sort that relaibility issue out. I would very much like to get some ER300B at some point.
  
 How's the bass on your ER300Bs? I have some talk that the ER300B might be a touch bass-lite.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

tonynewman said:


> I so hope Elrog can sort that relaibility issue out. I would very much like to get some ER300B at some point.
> 
> How's the bass on your ER300Bs? I have some talk that the ER300B might be a touch bass-lite.


 
  
 I can't complain about the bass.  I haven't compared to the TA300B yet.  But they seem to be a bit better than the EML 300BXLS; definitely way better than the Black Treasure 300Bs.
  
 I'm still running these tubes conservatively, 365V plate voltage with 65mA.  I can switch to 400V/80mA if I need a bass kick


----------



## Audiogalore

sko0bydoo said:


> I can't complain about the bass.  I haven't compared to the TA300B yet.  But they seem to be a bit better than the EML 300BXLS; definitely way better than the Black Treasure 300Bs.
> 
> I'm still running these tubes conservatively, 365V plate voltage with 65mA.  I can switch to 400V/80mA if I need a bass kick


 
 You must gotten a bad set of treasures. read 6moons report. I had a set of western electrics and the treasures has more bass on my WA5 setup for sure.


----------



## Stereolab42

Crap!
  
 And now I have ANOTHER Sophia RP 300B that has bitten the dust. Goes up like a purple light show when turned on, and sounds like fireworks. This is on top of the SERP I had go bad from last month. They are both different pairs that have only been used in different amps, so it's absolutely not my equipment that caused this. Luckily this pair is still in warranty for another month.
  
 And this is on top of my LCD-3 driver failure a few days ago! (Which was definitely not the fault of the bad 300B because the failed driver was on the left channel but the bad tube was on the right channel.)


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Crap!
> 
> And now I have ANOTHER Sophia RP 300B that has bitten the dust. Goes up like a purple light show when turned on, and sounds like fireworks. This is on top of the SERP I had go bad from last month. They are both different pairs that have only been used in different amps, so it's absolutely not my equipment that caused this. Luckily this pair is still in warranty for another month.
> 
> And this is on top of my LCD-3 driver failure a few days ago! (Which was definitely not the fault of the bad 300B because the failed driver was on the left channel but the bad tube was on the right channel.)


 

 Those LCD drivers are failing bad. Just waiting for mine to fail.
  
 It will cost me at least $250 to send back. Then I have all the customs troubles. So I think I will just buy something different when it fails.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Crap!
> 
> And now I have ANOTHER Sophia RP 300B that has bitten the dust. Goes up like a purple light show when turned on, and sounds like fireworks. This is on top of the SERP I had go bad from last month. ...


 
  
 That is really bad luck. I have had mine for 2 years and they have been rock solid.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> Crap!
> 
> And now I have ANOTHER Sophia RP 300B that has bitten the dust. Goes up like a purple light show when turned on, and sounds like fireworks. This is on top of the SERP I had go bad from last month. They are both different pairs that have only been used in different amps, so it's absolutely not my equipment that caused this. Luckily this pair is still in warranty for another month.
> 
> And this is on top of my LCD-3 driver failure a few days ago! (Which was definitely not the fault of the bad 300B because the failed driver was on the left channel but the bad tube was on the right channel.)


 
 Sorry to hear about you unfortunate mishaps…but look on the bright side, your tube is still under warranty and your LCD-3 will be fixed, so you'll be alright.


----------



## Silent One

@ Stereolab42
  
 Sorry to hear about your interruption inside the listening room.


----------



## Exidrion

badas said:


> Those LCD drivers are failing bad. Just waiting for mine to fail.




*This sentence right here is a huge problem Audeze.*


----------



## Sko0byDoo

badas said:


> Those LCD drivers are failing bad. Just waiting for mine to fail.


 
  
 Have sent back mine like 5 times already in the last two years.  Left/right drivers just failed alternatively.  Wonder if they ever do any quality check at all?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

audiogalore said:


> You must gotten a bad set of treasures. read 6moons report. I had a set of western electrics and the treasures has more bass on my WA5 setup for sure.


 
  
 I have read that Black Treasures come in two varieties, for the Chinese market and Western markets.  Chinese market to be lower quality of the two. Mine could be the Chinese version, (don't know, got 'em from PartsConnexion, so not sure).  I've read the 6moon review before making the purchase and for the price, can't hurt to try. 
  
 Will give the Black Treasures more time and report back.


----------



## Stereolab42

joseph69 said:


> Sorry to hear about you unfortunate mishaps…but look on the bright side, your tube is still under warranty and your LCD-3 will be fixed, so you'll be alright.


 
  
 On the brighter side I have an Ether on order; the LCD-3 will be sold (after repair) to those with more patience than me. I think the Ether suits my sonic preferences better anyways, from what I heard at the SF meet... the LCD-3 is smooth and spacious but a tad slow and I have to EQ the treble up a bit.
  
 The continual SERP failures are more frustrating because we have so few choices with modern 300Bs and the best are so expensive. Plus they have the ability to take out amps/headphones if they fail in the wrong way. I think if these fail again out-of-warranty I will go for the Taks now that there is a legit US dealer (Woo).


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> On the brighter side I have an Ether on order; the LCD-3 will be sold (after repair) to those with more patience than me. I think the Ether suits my sonic preferences better anyways, from what I heard at the SF meet... the LCD-3 is smooth and spacious but a tad slow and I have to EQ the treble up a bit.
> The continual SERP failures are more frustrating because we have so few choices with modern 300Bs and the best are so expensive. Plus they have the ability to take out amps/headphones if they fail in the wrong way. I think if these fail again out-of-warranty I will go for the Taks now that there is a legit US dealer (Woo).


 
 See, there's always a bright side, and your amp wasn't damaged.


----------



## 3083joe

stereolab42 said:


> Crap!
> 
> And now I have ANOTHER Sophia RP 300B that has bitten the dust. Goes up like a purple light show when turned on, and sounds like fireworks. This is on top of the SERP I had go bad from last month. They are both different pairs that have only been used in different amps, so it's absolutely not my equipment that caused this. Luckily this pair is still in warranty for another month.
> 
> And this is on top of my LCD-3 driver failure a few days ago! (Which was definitely not the fault of the bad 300B because the failed driver was on the left channel but the bad tube was on the right channel.)



Suck man. 
Sorry to hear.


----------



## Audiogalore

sko0bydoo said:


> I have read that Black Treasures come in two varieties, for the Chinese market and Western markets.  Chinese market to be lower quality of the two. Mine could be the Chinese version, (don't know, got 'em from PartsConnexion, so not sure).  I've read the 6moon review before making the purchase and for the price, can't hurt to try.
> 
> Will give the Black Treasures more time and report back.


 
 Well quite frankly I would stay away from such information. They are all made in the same factory. I would say you just got a bad set! Also if you got them from Parts Connexion, Chris is pretty good about warranty issue.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Check out the latest from @Tyll Hertsens on #BigSound2015.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/category/big-sound-2015


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Nice.


----------



## 3083joe

New RK-60 rectifier with Glenn's adapter!


----------



## abvolt

very cool looks great..


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> New RK-60 rectifier with Glenn's adapter!


 
  









 That looks so pimped (in a great way).


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Dude. How do you like the Aussie guys (Harry) Tung-Sol roundplates?
  
 I damn well love those tubes.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Dude. How do you like the Aussie guys (Harry) Tung-Sol roundplates?
> 
> I damn well love those tubes.



Maybe the best drivers out there. (Well except ecc32 which I haven't heard yet).


----------



## isquirrel

Received the stand this week. The HRS stand turned up all 230KG of it. It was an easy build and even I could follow the well laid out instructions. It is missing the 2 bases for the middle, they arrive next week. The music server and its power supply will fit on those.
  
 The sonic effect is a lowered noise floor and greater detail retrieval. The tonality seems to have become richer and the whole sound is more cohesive. Can't pretend it s value upgrade but at least its a one off. The bases are matched to the weight of the equipment going on them. The stand has been designed so you easily add or subtract levels, even go side ways.
  
 Photos


----------



## sathyam

isquirrel said:


> Received the stand this week. The HRS stand turned up all 230KG of it. It was an easy build and even I could follow the well laid out instructions. It is missing the 2 bases for the middle, they arrive next week. The music server and its power supply will fit on those.
> 
> The sonic effect is a lowered noise floor and greater detail retrieval. The tonality seems to have become richer and the whole sound is more cohesive. Can't pretend it s value upgrade but at least its a one off. The bases are matched to the weight of the equipment going on them. The stand has been designed so you easily add or subtract levels, even go side ways.
> 
> Photos


 
  
 Great setup! Have you tried the WA5?


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> Received the stand this week. The HRS stand turned up all 230KG of it. It was an easy build and even I could follow the well laid out instructions. It is missing the 2 bases for the middle, they arrive next week. The music server and its power supply will fit on those.
> The sonic effect is a lowered noise floor and greater detail retrieval. The tonality seems to have become richer and the whole sound is more cohesive. Can't pretend it s value upgrade but at least its a one off. The bases are matched to the weight of the equipment going on them. The stand has been designed so you easily add or subtract levels, even go side ways.


 
 That is just gorgeous!!!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 


>


----------



## Badas

^

Absolutely fantastic.


----------



## Audiogalore

isquirrel said:


> Received the stand this week. The HRS stand turned up all 230KG of it. It was an easy build and even I could follow the well laid out instructions. It is missing the 2 bases for the middle, they arrive next week. The music server and its power supply will fit on those.
> 
> The sonic effect is a lowered noise floor and greater detail retrieval. The tonality seems to have become richer and the whole sound is more cohesive. Can't pretend it s value upgrade but at least its a one off. The bases are matched to the weight of the equipment going on them. The stand has been designed so you easily add or subtract levels, even go side ways.
> 
> Photos


 
 Thank you for sharing such a fantastic setup
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

isquirrel said:


> Received the stand this week. The HRS stand turned up all 230KG of it. It was an easy build and even I could follow the well laid out instructions. It is missing the 2 bases for the middle, they arrive next week. The music server and its power supply will fit on those.
> 
> The sonic effect is a lowered noise floor and greater detail retrieval. The tonality seems to have become richer and the whole sound is more cohesive. Can't pretend it s value upgrade but at least its a one off. The bases are matched to the weight of the equipment going on them. The stand has been designed so you easily add or subtract levels, even go side ways.
> 
> Photos


 
  
 That's one fantastic system!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

isquirrel said:


> Received the stand this week. The HRS stand turned up all 230KG of it. It was an easy build and even I could follow the well laid out instructions. It is missing the 2 bases for the middle, they arrive next week. The music server and its power supply will fit on those.
> 
> The sonic effect is a lowered noise floor and greater detail retrieval. The tonality seems to have become richer and the whole sound is more cohesive. Can't pretend it s value upgrade but at least its a one off. The bases are matched to the weight of the equipment going on them. The stand has been designed so you easily add or subtract levels, even go side ways.
> 
> Photos


 
  
 I can't wait to see the next shot with the music server.  I'm trying to learn about those...


----------



## musicman59

I saw those sands at my dealer in Ann Arbor and really like them but I almost fainted when I saw the prices!!!


----------



## Khragon

musicman59 said:


> I saw those sands at my dealer in Ann Arbor and really like them but I almost fainted when I saw the prices!!!


 
 I just recovered from having fainted when I Google and saw the price.  $6k rack, that's a $12k system?
  
 Regardless, wonderful system and beautiful stand!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

musicman59 said:


> I saw those sands at my dealer in Ann Arbor and really like them but I almost fainted when I saw the prices!!!


 
  
 I keep telling myself that the cost of those is proportional to the cost of the system....


----------



## isquirrel

The rack is the Harmonic Resolution System SXR, the bases are the MX3R. They normally don't keep stock of the Silver bases hence the waiting times. Worth it though I think, Silver looks more "tech" than the Black.
  
 Photos showing the internal construction, the feet of the bases have their own suspension system built into them, they can be changed in the future to suit the component weight going on them. Its a one off investment that will last forever and provides plenty of flexibility. 
  
 Stand under construction
  

  
 Bottom of the bases showing how the feet go in
  


 Internal shot of the stand bracing and feet supports, underneath is the Shunyata Triton and Typhon power conditioning


----------



## musicman59

Awesome design and engineering!


----------



## Gibsonmac

We422a rectifiers sound AMAZEBALLS in woo amps.


----------



## fhuang

isquirrel said:


> Received the stand this week. The HRS stand turned up all 230KG of it. It was an easy build and even I could follow the well laid out instructions. It is missing the 2 bases for the middle, they arrive next week. The music server and its power supply will fit on those.
> 
> The sonic effect is a lowered noise floor and greater detail retrieval. The tonality seems to have become richer and the whole sound is more cohesive. Can't pretend it s value upgrade but at least its a one off. The bases are matched to the weight of the equipment going on them. The stand has been designed so you easily add or subtract levels, even go side ways.
> 
> Photos


 
  
  
 amazing
  
 looks like those are shunyata power cable.  sigma series?  which one are you using?  digital or hc?  i'm thinking getting one for the wa5.  probably a alpha.  would a digital be enough?  or hc, more power/high current the better?


----------



## jhljhl

gibsonmac said:


> We422a rectifiers sound AMAZEBALLS in woo amps.


 

 haha...


----------



## 3083joe

gibsonmac said:


> We422a rectifiers sound AMAZEBALLS in woo amps.



Did you hear it in a wa6?


----------



## devilboy

That Woo.
Oooo la la.
Audio porn.


----------



## musicman59

gibsonmac said:


> We422a rectifiers sound AMAZEBALLS in woo amps.


 
 I will be selling a pair that I bought from a dealer in Wisconsin 3 or 4 months ago pretty soon.... look out for them in the for sale forum tonight....


----------



## Gibsonmac

3083joe said:


> Did you hear it in a wa6?


Yeah that's what I've got it in.


----------



## Audiogalore

isquirrel said:


> The rack is the Harmonic Resolution System SXR, the bases are the MX3R. They normally don't keep stock of the Silver bases hence the waiting times. Worth it though I think, Silver looks more "tech" than the Black.
> 
> Photos showing the internal construction, the feet of the bases have their own suspension system built into them, they can be changed in the future to suit the component weight going on them. Its a one off investment that will last forever and provides plenty of flexibility.
> 
> ...


 
 Certainly fantastic and well built!


----------



## isquirrel

fhuang said:


> amazing
> 
> looks like those are shunyata power cable.  sigma series?  which one are you using?  digital or hc?  i'm thinking getting one for the wa5.  probably a alpha.  would a digital be enough?  or hc, more power/high current the better?


 

 Using Shunyata Sigma's (digital and HC's), was using the Alpha series in the HC variant. Experimented with a Sigma Digital on the DAC, I had heard a lot of differing reports, it seems that on some DAC's it works well, not so well own others. On both of my DAC's it made a big difference, the bass became more tuneful, much better layering and detail. The texture throughout the audible range improved substantially over an Alpha HC. So have 2 x Sigma Digital's for the Music Server and the DAC and Sigma HC's for the amps. To be honest the most important place to use a Sigma is from the wall outlet to the Triton, for the $ there is no way I could recommend the expense over the Alpha except for the DAC. That made such difference it was akin to a component upgrade. If you use a digital series cable on an analog source it does some very strange things to the sound and is not recommended. Shunyata recommended the normal Sigma analog for the amps but I have a couple of large mono block amps coming for my 2 channel system so knew I would be using them there.
  
 Couldn't recommend any Sigma cable for the WA5 as it costs more than the amp. The Alpha analog would be fine, you wouldn't need to go to a HC, you're in Hong Kong see if the dealer will lend some to try out 1st. . Plus to get the best out of the Shunyata cables they need to be used in a Shunyata system with a Triton etc. Better off spending that on Tubes.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> The rack is the Harmonic Resolution System SXR, the bases are the MX3R. They normally don't keep stock of the Silver bases hence the waiting times. Worth it though I think, Silver looks more "tech" than the Black.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow... yet, again, your system keeps us all crying with jealousy


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Wow... yet, again, your system keeps us all crying with jealousy


 

 Thanks Pal but not for long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its all about to get pulled apart and most of it moved over to the 2 channel system. I am thinking of using a semi portable rig for Head-Fi duties as the 234's will be going. Although I have the horrible feeling that I will find that I am more into Head-fi, its been an incredible journey its stunning how fast and how good the Head-Fi scene is and has moved forwards. The next few years are going to be very interesting.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

isquirrel said:


> Thanks Pal but not for long
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wonder how well the WA234 will hold value for you?  I hope you don't lose too much.  Good luck...


----------



## musicman59

Guys,
 I just listed in the for sale (amplifiers) forum 2 pairs of 300B tubes and I will list a pair of WE422a later tonight.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777187/like-new-pair-of-elrog-300b-tubes
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777189/mint-condition-pair-of-eat-300b-tubes
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777208/fs-a-pair-of-western-electric-we422a
 Thanks.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Thanks Pal but not for long
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You just know you are going to want it back again eventually


----------



## musicman59

Here are the links to the sale:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/777187/like-new-pair-of-elrog-300b-tubes

http://www.head-fi.org/t/777189/mint-condition-pair-of-eat-300b-tubes
http://www.head-fi.org/t/777208/fs-a-pair-of-western-electric-we422a
  
 Thanks.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> Here are the links to the sale:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/777187/like-new-pair-of-elrog-300b-tubes
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/777189/mint-condition-pair-of-eat-300b-tubes
> ...



Total wish I could get the we422.


----------



## cs098

musicman59 said:


> Here are the links to the sale:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/777187/like-new-pair-of-elrog-300b-tubes
> 
> ...


 
  I wonder if you would consider selling only one rectifier for us wa6 owners.


----------



## musicman59

cs098 said:


> I wonder if you would consider selling only one rectifier for us wa6 owners.


 
 I already received a PM from a member wanting the pair. If it does not go through for whatever reason I'll check with 3083joe if he still wants one so we can made it work for everybody.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> I already received a PM from a member wanting the pair. If it does not go through for whatever reason I'll check with 3083joe if he still wants one so we can made it work for everybody.



Sounds good. 
Keep me posted.


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> Sounds good.
> Keep me posted.


 
 Elrog and WE422A sold together to the same person in Audiogon. Sorry.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Sounds good.
> Keep me posted.


 

 I am selling a pair that I can sell separately.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I am selling a pair that I can sell separately.



Oh yeah?


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Oh yeah?


 
 Check out the classified in my sig and pm if interested.


----------



## kazsud

Clever design. Been wanting to make something similar with mdf, ply & hardwood.


----------



## fhuang

isquirrel said:


> Using Shunyata Sigma's (digital and HC's), was using the Alpha series in the HC variant. Experimented with a Sigma Digital on the DAC, I had heard a lot of differing reports, it seems that on some DAC's it works well, not so well own others. On both of my DAC's it made a big difference, the bass became more tuneful, much better layering and detail. The texture throughout the audible range improved substantially over an Alpha HC. So have 2 x Sigma Digital's for the Music Server and the DAC and Sigma HC's for the amps. To be honest the most important place to use a Sigma is from the wall outlet to the Triton, for the $ there is no way I could recommend the expense over the Alpha except for the DAC. That made such difference it was akin to a component upgrade. If you use a digital series cable on an analog source it does some very strange things to the sound and is not recommended. Shunyata recommended the normal Sigma analog for the amps but I have a couple of large mono block amps coming for my 2 channel system so knew I would be using them there.
> 
> Couldn't recommend any Sigma cable for the WA5 as it costs more than the amp. The Alpha analog would be fine, you wouldn't need to go to a HC, you're in Hong Kong see if the dealer will lend some to try out 1st. . Plus to get the best out of the Shunyata cables they need to be used in a Shunyata system with a Triton etc. Better off spending that on Tubes.


 
  
  
 i mixed up again with the analog and the digital.  i was wondering if a hc is better than an analog when using with a wa5(any wa5 user using a shunyata?), or your case wa234.  i actually have a alpha analog, using with another headphone number(rp010b).  i tried the analog with the wa5 before but that was before.  something missing, maybe it didn't have enough burn-in.  i'll try it again.  but the sigma series, yea true, too expensive for my setup.  i checked sigma hc with the local dealer, it doesn't cost as much as a wa5 but it's pretty expensive.  home demo will not be possible.  i had another brand demo, a local brand named sine, with my wa5 before and thought it was pretty good.  i guess i just stick with that.  what signal cable are you using?


----------



## isquirrel

fhuang said:


> i mixed up again with the analog and the digital.  i was wondering if a hc is better than an analog when using with a wa5(any wa5 user using a shunyata?), or your case wa234.  i actually have a alpha analog, using with another headphone number(rp010b).  i tried the analog with the wa5 before but that was before.  something missing, maybe it didn't have enough burn-in.  i'll try it again.  but the sigma series, yea true, too expensive for my setup.  i checked sigma hc with the local dealer, it doesn't cost as much as a wa5 but it's pretty expensive.  home demo will not be possible.  i had another brand demo, a local brand named sine, with my wa5 before and thought it was pretty good.  i guess i just stick with that.  what signal cable are you using?


 

 I use DHC Silver Spore for signal cables. The Alpha should be okay for the WA5 the HC version is designed for high correct amps. The HC is a better PC according to Shunyata but then they would say that ! In my experience and others over on the WBF forums and a friend of mine Fririce0003 who also has Shunyata - nothing comes close to the massive amount of burn in they require, its ridiculous, New cables take upwards of 500+ hours - if I move my cables I have to wait another 100+ hours for then to settle down. I am not alone in noting this phenomon so I suspect what you heard is a cable that hasn't been broken in properly. When I got my 1st Sigma Digital I couldn't believe how bad it sounded, it was terrible, it went through various stages until one day it just sounded completely different and glorious. I have no explanation for this, it is frustrating.


----------



## sathyam

I just got my TA-274B & the GE GSN7GT NOS tubes from Woo Audio. I have already had the TA-300B tubes.
  
 Wow! The difference is significant.
  

The highs have been tamed and the cymbals are the best I have heard,
The bass is kicking, without being too heavy - Indian drums (Tabla and Mrindagam) sound stunning, with the reverb on the drum's skin,
The Mids are brought forward and sweet,
The Details in the music are more hearable
The soundstage is expanded.significantly,
  
 A very big jump in performance compared to the stock tubes.The HE-1000 being the details monster that it is, has been taken up a couple of notches. Abyss bass and attack is on a different level now. Its the closest I have heard to an immersive center-stage live performance.


----------



## TonyNewman

sathyam said:


> I just got my TA-274B & the GE GSN7GT NOS tubes from Woo Audio. I have already had the TA-300B tubes.
> 
> Wow! The difference is significant.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The TA274B is a sweet tube. I found the biggest SQ jump from the Brimars I was using is the bass response - deep, taunt and well defined in the TA274B. Not many tubes can do bass like that (that I have used anyway). Try pairing the Taks with TS RPs - that is mind-bendingly good


----------



## HiFiGuy528

sathyam said:


> I just got my TA-274B & the GE GSN7GT NOS tubes from Woo Audio. I have already had the TA-300B tubes.
> 
> Wow! The difference is significant.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the early impressions.  The sound should improve with every use.


----------



## TonyNewman

hifiguy528 said:


> Thank you for the early impressions.  The sound should improve with every use.


 
  
 Taks can be a little variable in the break in period. Don't get discouraged if they drop in SQ for a while in the first 300-500 hours.
  
 Mine got a little rough around the 220-240 hour mark. It takes a long time (500 hours?) for these tubes to settle and give their absolute best.
  
 I am at 350 hours and SQ is still improving. I started logging at the 230 hour mark.
  

  
 Back to TS RP 6C8G drivers and modded HD800. Rather good now, but still improving.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> The TA274B is a sweet tube. I found the biggest SQ jump from the Brimars I was using is the bass response - deep, taunt and well defined in the TA274B. Not many tubes can do bass like that (that I have used anyway). Try pairing the Taks with TS RPs - that is mind-bendingly good



What's the price on ta-274b, and are they worth going to from we422?


----------



## isquirrel

Nice spreadsheet Tony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 +1 on the TSRP's, my system has suddenly decided to sound really good, I am thinking either these HE-1000's take a very long time to come good or something else is going on here, seem to always be in burn in of something.
  
 Price Japan or Woo Audio are a couple of places to get them from folks. Don't know how much Woo are charging?


----------



## isquirrel

3083joe said:


> What's the price on ta-274b, and are they worth going to from we422?


 

 The Mullard Metal Base GZ34 is a very compliment rectifier to the Tak 300B, has some incredible pace and is quite euphonic little less texture than the Tak 274B but a little more mid bass speed and power.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> What's the price on ta-274b, and are they worth going to from we422?


 
  
 I have never heard the WE422A, so can't say. Folks that have heard both might be able to chip in on this one.


----------



## sathyam

3083joe said:


> What's the price on ta-274b, and are they worth going to from we422?




TA-274B is $1930 for a pair from Woo Audio.


----------



## musicman59

sathyam said:


> TA-274B is $1930 for a pair from Woo Audio.


 
 Wow! That is stiff. Form Price Japan they are about $1,350 plus shipping...


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I have never heard the WE422A, so can't say. Folks that have heard both might be able to chip in on this one.


 

 WE422A is good, WE 274B = better, but silly prices now (eBay $3799 to $7999 pair) they are both romantic tubes, I suspect that as the mid range is prominent that's what focuses the sound and makes them so romantic. The bass of the TAK 274B is in a different league as are the higher frequencies, its has a more linear freq response so sounds more neutral. Personally the TAK 274B gets my vote as its current production and has warranty + to my eyes its much better built.
  
 I ran across an interview from the 90's between a reviewer at Stereophile and the then CEO of WE, the reviewer had noticed that it was taking into the +500 hours range for the tubes to burn in properly and commented on this. The WE CEO responded by saying that they were the only manufacturers to NOT put a Calcium Oxide "pep" on the plates - this "pep" tonic helps speed up the burn in process dramatically probably shortening it to 200 hours and enables tubes with it on to come back to life much quicker than WE"s which didn't have it. 
  
 I suspect & I don't have any evidence of this but Takatsuki do not use the Calcium Oxide "pep" either hence the long burn in times and the long time it takes for them to come back to life after being rested even after just a few days. The good news is the WE CEO told the reviewer that this "pep" used by current production tube manufacturers also reduces the tubes lifespan considerably, given my experience with other current production tubes I am inclined to again think that the Takatsuki's are as much as possible a modern version of the WE tubes in all respects. 
  
 The then CEO of WE also said that as a result of not using this 'pep" they regularly saw lifespans of +30,000 hours - I am no expert but I would have thought that as a headphone amp does not run the tubes anything like as hard as a 2 channel speaker amp that we could be looking at considerably more lifespan than that. I have also noticed along with Fririrce0003 and I believe (again I could be wrong) we have been running the Tak's for longer than anyone else on these forums, mine have +1,100 hours on them - that they sound better after being used for 10+ hours , this is most definitely not the case with other new production tubes which we have noticed drop off in performance after 6-8+ hours.
  
 I am going to have mine tested when (if) I get to +5,000 hours and see what kind of readings they produce. This should give us an indication of lifespan especially if more users do it so we can average the results. BTW both Fririce0003 and myself use the Cathode Lo-Z output so the tube at maximum is only putting out 190mW I almost never use more than 50% gain so we are talking 100mW compared with the 8W put out using the speaker terminals.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

musicman59 said:


> Wow! That is stiff. Form Price Japan they are about $1,350 plus shipping...


 
  
 Please note, we don't merely buy the tubes from Takasuki and instantly flip them to our customers.  We test every tube we buy individually to ensure the batch we received is at the quality we expect and they are hand matched before it is shipped to our customers.  We also back every tube we sell with a 30 day warranty.  I won't mention the company, but there have been times we reject the entire batch of tubes because they don't meet our high standards.  Where those tubes go we don't know, but they aren't in our customers' hands.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> ... The bass of the TAK 274B is in a different league ...


 
  
 +1 on this. The bass with the TA274B is very close to what my 430HA SS amp provides. Taut, deep, wonderful bass.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

If you're in the Sydney, Australia area please join us for a special event.
  
 https://www.facebook.com/events/126801370993458/


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> Wow! That is stiff. Form Price Japan they are about $1,350 plus shipping...


 
  
 Nope - that is the pair of TA300B, not the TA274B. The TA274B pricing is around $1000 USD per tube, similar to Woo folks.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> Nope - that is the pair of TA300B, not the TA274B. The TA274B pricing is around $1000 USD per tube, similar to Woo folks.


 
 Tony,
 I just checked PriceJapan. The pair of TA300B delivered to the USA is $156,733yen or $1,273usd. There is no option to just buy the TA274B alone. They need to be ordered together with the 300B. The total price for the pair of TA300B and pair of TA274B is 336,551yen or $2,733usd. So the difference which is the price of the TA274B is $1,460.


----------



## musicman59

hifiguy528 said:


> Please note, we don't merely buy the tubes from Takasuki and instantly flip them to our customers.  We test every tube we buy individually to ensure the batch we received is at the quality we expect and they are hand matched before it is shipped to our customers.  We also back every tube we sell with a 30 day warranty.  I won't mention the company, but there have been times we reject the entire batch of tubes because they don't meet our high standards.  Where those tubes go we don't know, but they aren't in our customers' hands.


 
 Mike,
 You know I am a Woo fan and have own my WA5-LE for 5 years and still love it. I understand your points, they are very valid and add value to the product. The question to myself is if I can justify the percentage in price differential. That I am still debating about.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> Tony,
> I just checked PriceJapan. The pair of TA300B delivered to the USA is $156,733yen or $1,273usd. There is no option to just buy the TA274B alone. They need to order together with the 300B. The total price for the pair of TA300B and pair of TA274B is 336,551yen or $2,733usd. So the difference which is the price of the TA274B is $1,460.


 
 I was wrong on both counts - checked again. Bugger.
  
 Email them and I'm sure they will make it happen for you. They were great to deal with when I ordered my pair of TA300B.


----------



## 3083joe

So what's the options for the wa2 
Rectifier?
Power?
Drive? 
Thanks


----------



## isquirrel

musicman59 said:


> Tony,
> I just checked PriceJapan. The pair of TA300B delivered to the USA is $156,733yen or $1,273usd. There is no option to just buy the TA274B alone. They need to be ordered together with the 300B. The total price for the pair of TA300B and pair of TA274B is 336,551yen or $2,733usd. So the difference which is the price of the TA274B is $1,460.


 

 They will supply 274B by themselves you have to send an email to customer service. As far as Takatsuki picking I can't swallow the price difference or the implied suggestion that there are failures (or could be) the reality is I have had 3 pairs of Takatsuki's 300B and 274B's Fririce0003 has also had the same and neither of us have had any problems, their matching as proven by their included spec sheets are spot on. I have dropped them, smashed them against each other done some horrible things to them and they still work as though nothing even happened. In my experience they are the best built tube by a country mile and while I could accept a small mark up I cannot accept that they are somehow hand selected even further by Woo and that justifies the huge difference in price. Takatsuki themselves have a very good warranty and I understand from friends using them in 2 channel amps that problems are very rare and they are running them much harder than any of us is likely to. I am not Takatsuki sure would like the suggestion that their valves need to be sorted by hand above and beyond what they already do. The guy that invested in and funds Takatsuk,i I understand is extremely wealthy and no corners would ever be cut. The Japanese culture takes these things very seriously.


----------



## Khragon

isquirrel said:


> They will supply 274B by themselves you have to send an email to customer service. As far as Takatsuki picking I can't swallow the price difference or the implied suggestion that there are failures (or could be) the reality is I have had 3 pairs of Takatsuki's 300B and 274B's Fririce0003 has also had the same and neither of us have had any problems, their matching as proven by their included spec sheets are spot on. I have dropped them, smashed them against each other done some horrible things to them and they still work as though nothing even happened. In my experience they are the best built tube by a country mile and while I could accept a small mark up I cannot accept that they are somehow hand selected even further by Woo and that justifies the huge difference in price. Takatsuki themselves have a very good warranty and I understand from friends using them in 2 channel amps that problems are very rare and they are running them much harder than any of us is likely to. I am not Takatsuki sure would like the suggestion that their valves need to be sorted by hand above and beyond what they already do. The guy that invested in and funds Takatsuk,i I understand is extremely wealthy and no corners would ever be cut. The Japanese culture takes these things very seriously.


 
 +1, I encouraged Woo to support their customers by offering TOTL tubes at little or no mark up.  I see that Woo isn't marking up headphones or Sophia tubes, so why Takatsuki?


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> They will supply 274B by themselves you have to send an email to customer service. As far as Takatsuki picking I can't swallow the price difference or the implied suggestion that there are failures (or could be) the reality is I have had 3 pairs of Takatsuki's 300B and 274B's Fririce0003 has also had the same and neither of us have had any problems, their matching as proven by their included spec sheets are spot on. I have dropped them, smashed them against each other done some horrible things to them and they still work as though nothing even happened. In my experience they are the best built tube by a country mile and while I could accept a small mark up I cannot accept that they are somehow hand selected even further by Woo and that justifies the huge difference in price. Takatsuki themselves have a very good warranty and I understand from friends using them in 2 channel amps that problems are very rare and they are running them much harder than any of us is likely to. I am not Takatsuki sure would like the suggestion that their valves need to be sorted by hand above and beyond what they already do. The guy that invested in and funds Takatsuk,i I understand is extremely wealthy and no corners would ever be cut. The Japanese culture takes these things very seriously.


 
 To be fair with Woo Audio there was another USA business distributing Takatsuki at a price that I think was even higher than Woo. This was quite sometime ago so I do not remember the name.
 Whenever I decide to go for them I will contact Jack first. There is noting like dealing with somebody you have meet in person and done business before.


----------



## Krutsch

Meanwhile, on the low end of Woo Audio...
  
 Yeah! New tubes arrived, today. GEC 6AS7G Brown Base (a matched pair), trying out now on the WA3, giving the Westys a well-deserved rest.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Looking for something new to listen to tube-wise... I'm currently using:
  - WA22 w/ TS5998 + Psvane CV181-TII + Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica > LCD-X
  - WA6 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY + Sophia 6SN7 > TH900
  
 Other misc tubes I've tried: stock WA22 and WA6, TS7236, Sophia 274B, Shuguang Black Treasure
  
 I'm considering replacing the Psvane CV181-TIIs with TS BGRPs and moving the CV181-TIIs to the WA6.
  
 Any recommendations?


----------



## abvolt

I'm currently using ts6080's + nu6c8g's and a brimar 5z4gy with a wa22 really sweet sounding..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@musicman59  I think you're familiar with this headphone.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  


krutsch said:


> Meanwhile, on the low end of Woo Audio...
> 
> Yeah! New tubes arrived, today. GEC 6AS7G Brown Base (a matched pair), trying out now on the WA3, giving the Westys a well-deserved rest.


 
  
 Audio gear porn here.  Where are the mods?!?!


----------



## jhljhl

indiegradofan said:


> Looking for something new to listen to tube-wise... I'm currently using:
> - WA22 w/ TS5998 + Psvane CV181-TII + Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica > LCD-X
> - WA6 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY + Sophia 6SN7 > TH900
> 
> ...


 

 Get a WE422a rectifier luscious layered but detailed.  Oh!  I just happen to be selling them.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or a metal gz34 very holographic.  Or a U52 a kinder warmer but textured and wider sounding mullard gz34. 
  
 And a matched pair of NOS TSRP 6f8g.  I just happen to be selling an extra set too.


----------



## Krutsch

hifiguy528 said:


> ... Audio gear porn here.  Where are the mods?!?!


 
  
 What? Socket savers and tube dampers don't count as mods?  Just kidding...


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> Looking for something new to listen to tube-wise... I'm currently using:
> - WA22 w/ TS5998 + Psvane CV181-TII + Psvane WE274B 1:1 replica > LCD-X
> - WA6 w/ Brimar 5Z4GY + Sophia 6SN7 > TH900
> 
> ...




Yes get rid of the Psvane's. Defintly go to the TS RP's. I'm using the TS RP 6C8g in my WA22. A lot better priced than the 6F8g




abvolt said:


> I'm currently using ts6080's + nu6c8g's and a brimar 5z4gy with a wa22 really sweet sounding..




Nice combo. I have listened to that rectifier and driver combo before. Super nice.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Meanwhile, on the low end of Woo Audio...
> 
> Yeah! New tubes arrived, today. GEC 6AS7G Brown Base (a matched pair), trying out now on the WA3, giving the Westys a well-deserved rest.




Looking great. 

I'm considering the Oppo PM2 HP's. So I was thinking of getting a WA3 or WA6 to put beside my bed to use the PM2 there as well. Probably the WA6 as I can use the adapters and run my existing tube stock.


----------



## thunder 99

Hi everyone
  
 Ive just been reading bits and pieces through this forum and thought Id ask whats on my mind.
  
 I am thinking of getting a new Woo WA5 LE with upgraded internals / Takatsuki tubes and most importantly an added pre out because I want it to one day be used as a pre alongside a Metrum Pavane DAC.
  
 Just wondering what you guys think of
  
 1) Upgrading the internals and whether that actually improves the sound quality
 2) Regarding the pre out function - Should I get a WA5 or WA5LE? I figure why spend more when I plan to use a power amp with it anyway.
 I was wondering whether anyone has had experience with WA5 as a power amp and whether it works well. For me one of the main reasons im considering the Woo is not just that its a good headphone amp but also because I can use it as a pre amp in another system. But will only buy it if it can do both hasslefree / and that it doesnt introduce any noise or hiss etc. I guess what Id like to also know is that using as a preamp, if it is able to impart its sound signature into the circuit fairly well or not.
  
 Looking forward to your expertise.
  
 Regards
 thunder


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yes get rid of the Psvane's. Defintly go to the TS RP's. I'm using the TS RP 6C8g in my WA22. A lot better priced than the 6F8g
> ...


 
  
 +1 on all that. The T2s have great detail and extension - but so dry they verge on being harsh. TS RPs are soooooooooo much better.


----------



## GrindingThud

Nice!



krutsch said:


> Meanwhile, on the low end of Woo Audio...
> 
> Yeah! New tubes arrived, today. GEC 6AS7G Brown Base (a matched pair), trying out now on the WA3, giving the Westys a well-deserved rest.


----------



## musicman59

hifiguy528 said:


> @musicman59  I think you're familiar with this headphone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yes! I love them! To me they are the best closed headphones I have heard and very under appreciated here in the forums.
 BTW, Nice cable! Where did you get those adapters?
 I am using a Zeus and a DHC Complement 4 with excellent results.


----------



## musicman59

krutsch said:


> Meanwhile, on the low end of Woo Audio...
> 
> Yeah! New tubes arrived, today. GEC 6AS7G Brown Base (a matched pair), trying out now on the WA3, giving the Westys a well-deserved rest.


 
 Where did you get that tube damper?


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Meanwhile, on the low end of Woo Audio...
> 
> Yeah! New tubes arrived, today. GEC 6AS7G Brown Base (a matched pair), trying out now on the WA3, giving the Westys a well-deserved rest.


 
 How does it sound?


----------



## Audiogalore

thunder 99 said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Ive just been reading bits and pieces through this forum and thought Id ask whats on my mind.
> 
> ...


 
 With all that you would like to use the amp for the WA5 with speaker terminal outputs is most suitable for your application.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Looking great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! It *is* all about the tube stock which, for me, pretty much demands that my next amp is the WA2, given my extensive glass collection in that area.


----------



## Krutsch

musicman59 said:


> Where did you get that tube damper?


 
  
 Mapleshade. I am back-and-forth on how well these work. I have a couple of power tubes that exhibit some vibration/ringing effects, and the dampler seems to help. I have also been cleaning pins with Deoxit, so maybe that is helping, as well.
  
 The damper comes with a copper ribbon cable to ground the damper - supposedly this mitigates EMI/RFI, but I solved that problem by just moving the amp away from everything else.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Looking great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ill sell you mine


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> How does it sound?


 
  
 Hard to say; it's early with the GEC 6AS7G Brown Base tubes and I started with a couple of hours with each one to just to ensure they are functional.
  
 I've been rolling with the WE421a for quite a while and when I first pushed in the GEC I noticed three things, in order:
  
 1. Wow... really nice separation between instruments (but, I've learned that's an occasional psycho-acoustic effect for me with new gear euphoria, so we'll see it stays as an impression when I go back to my old tubes);
  
 2. The high-end is less present (rolled-off?) and there seems to be less detail... this may be a side-effect of the next item;
  
 3. Greatly exaggerated mids, like around where mid-scale piano notes reside (this was really bad with Agnes Obel's second album and in some passages was actually presented as highly audible distortion with my HD-650s). As such, I greatly preferred my HD-700s to the HD-650s with the GEC power tube.
  
 Things improved after they warmed-up (after an hour or so) and I'm hoping for more change after they break-in.
  
 That said, both tubes are dead quiet and there is a smoothness to the GECs that I haven't heard from any of my other power tubes and if the mids settle down, these could give the WE421a a run for their money. But for now, the clarity, sound-stage and tone of the WEs is unbeatable.
  
 More as my tubes and brain burn-in...


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Hard to say; it's early with the GEC 6AS7G Brown Base tubes and I started with a couple of hours with each one to just to ensure they are functional.
> 
> I've been rolling with the WE421a for quite a while and when I first pushed in the GEC I noticed three things, in order:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks great info
 Looking into the two myself, maybe the 421s will be the way, but with the things that sounded good with 700s isn't the same now with the 800s. now that i have them so been changing lots
 want to pick up a wa22 and sell my wa6


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Thanks great info
> Looking into the two myself, maybe the 421s will be the way, but with the things that sounded good with 700s isn't the same now with the 800s. now that i have them so been changing lots
> want to pick up a wa22 and sell my wa6


 
  
 Well, we'll see. There are others who have been down this trail that swear by the GECs. I am going to be patient.
  
 That said, if you want to pick-up some great sounding tubes for a WA3 (or WA2./WA22), that are an order of magnitude lower in cost than the above, consider:
  
 Tung-Sol 6520 or Tung-Sol 7236


----------



## musicman59

thunder 99 said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Ive just been reading bits and pieces through this forum and thought Id ask whats on my mind.
> 
> ...


 
 In my opinion it all depends of the speakers you will use. If you speakers are not 8 ohms or more and highly efficient I personally will not spend the extra money on a WA5 because it is just 8 watts/ch output. I would rather use the WA5-LE as tube pre-amp to a more powerful amplifier.
 I personally think upgrading the internal electronics does make a difference I would that first then upgrading the tubes since those can be upgraded later.


----------



## TonyNewman

musicman59 said:


> ... I personally will not spend the extra money on a WA5 because it is just 8 watts/ch output....


 
  
 I went WA5 over WA5LE to drive the HE6. It needs those 8W from the K1K output to perform well. Otherwise, totally agree - the WA5LE would have been fine for me.


----------



## musicman59

tonynewman said:


> I went WA5 over WA5LE to drive the HE6. It needs those 8W from the K1K output to perform well. Otherwise, totally agree - the WA5LE would have been fine for me.


 
 I agree with you on the old versions of WA5 and WA5-LE. In the new versions the WA5-LE has the 8 watts/ch headphones output.
 I ordered the WA5-LE back then because the HE-6 were not out in the market if they were I would have ordered the WA5 like you.


----------



## Stereolab42

Woo really needs update its web page with the new WA5/LE specs and prices.


----------



## sathyam

New to WA5-LE:
 
High power 1/4” and 4-Pin XLR headphone outputs (up to 8watts)
 
User selectable High Power or Low Power output to match a wide variety of headphone power demands
 


User selectable High or Low impedance to match headphone impedance
 
User selectable High or Low output LEVEL to match headphone sensitivity
 
XLR input x 1
 

  
 I have been running my Abyss at about 25% volume. Most other amps, I need to to run it at 75-95%.


----------



## thunder 99

Thanks for the replies guys.
  
 Think its looking more like the WA5LE. Here is my main question
  
 For a speaker system, Which will produce a more tubey (& better) version of the sound? WA5 LE functioning as a preamp or a dedicated tube amp? After dropping ~5k USD, im wondering if I should save the money for a dedicated tube amp or continue to use WA5LE. In a way I am trying to make one thing do both and my logic is that WA5 as a premium head phone amp will also act as a premium tube preamp when used in a speaker system.
  
 Not sure if the above logic holds up, as ultimately I may move into a speaker system once a few things work out, but at the moment use headphones heavily so wanted to view the Woo as an intermediate source that I don't mind spending big on if that means I can use it as a valuable component in a speaker system which competes with other mid-higher tier system.
  
 I am thinking of using netural power amps like Bryston. 
  
 Is this just a crazy thought? Am I asking too much off the Woo? Am i better to get an allright amp now and then get an actual hifi amp for hifi use?
  
 Regards
 Thunder


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> Woo really needs update its web page with the new WA5/LE specs and prices.


 
  
 New web site is on the horizon.  That's why we have not updated the current site.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Here's a sneak peek. 
  

  


sathyam said:


> New to WA5-LE:
> 
> High power 1/4” and 4-Pin XLR headphone outputs (up to 8watts)
> 
> ...


 
  
 New WA5-LE is a significant upgrade from classic WA5-LE.


----------



## musicman59

thunder 99 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys.
> 
> Think its looking more like the WA5LE. Here is my main question
> 
> ...


 
 If Woo can customize a new WA5-LE with a pre-amp output this is what I would do:
 Your digital source to your DAC to the WA5-LE acting as Preamp/headphones amp to the Bryston amps.


----------



## 3083joe

any one able to tell me how these are?
@Badas ?
 Someone else


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> any one able to tell me how these are?
> @Badas ?
> Someone else


 
  
 I've wanted a set of those. However when a set comes up for auction the freight has been more than the tubes. So it kills me getting a set. They are suppose to be great. Build quality looks fantastic. I think they were made by Bendix for Tung-Sol. The micra holders give it away.


----------



## shawndo

Greetings, new member and finally got all the pieces today and am starting the burn in, although I have to say it sounds pretty freak'n awesome already.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I've wanted a set of those. However when a set comes up for auction the freight has been more than the tubes. So it kills me getting a set. They are suppose to be great. Build quality looks fantastic. I think they were made by Bendix for Tung-Sol. The micra holders give it away.


 

 Thanks


----------



## abvolt

I have 4 sets of the chathams and 4 sets of tung sol 6080's both are excellent among my favorites, just as good as the mullards imo. Give them a try..


----------



## 3083joe

Thanks guys 
got them for 40 shipped. Can't complain.


----------



## Badas

shawndo said:


> Greetings, new member and finally got all the pieces today and am starting the burn in, although I have to say it sounds pretty freak'n awesome already.


 
  
 Congrats. Fantastic looking rig.


----------



## abvolt

shawndo said:


> Greetings, new member and finally got all the pieces today and am starting the burn in, although I have to say it sounds pretty freak'n awesome already.


 
  
 great looking rig welcome


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> any one able to tell me how these are?
> @Badas ?
> Someone else


 

 Are those the graphite plates or regular?  I can't tell from the picture.


----------



## ru4music

shawndo said:


> Greetings, new member and finally got all the pieces today and am starting the burn in, although I have to say it sounds pretty freak'n awesome already.


 
  
 WELCOME!  I think your going to enjoy that new WA22.


----------



## abvolt

ru4music said:


> Are those the graphite plates or regular?  I can't tell from the picture.


 
  
  
  
 No not the graphite..


----------



## GrindingThud

Amongst my favorite 6080. Typically well behaved and quiet.



3083joe said:


> any one able to tell me how these are?
> @Badas
> ?
> Someone else


----------



## 3083joe

shawndo said:


> Greetings, new member and finally got all the pieces today and am starting the burn in, although I have to say it sounds pretty freak'n awesome already.



Beautiful and welcome.


----------



## 3083joe

Wow the ecc32s are very nice mixed with brimar u52 now just to try with we422a, next week.


----------



## Audiogalore

shawndo said:


> Greetings, new member and finally got all the pieces today and am starting the burn in, although I have to say it sounds pretty freak'n awesome already.


 
 Congratulation.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## devilboy

Greetings Shawndo. Beautiful setup! You must be proud. Welcome to the madness.


----------



## shawndo

devilboy said:


> Greetings Shawndo. Beautiful setup! You must be proud. Welcome to the madness.


 
  
 Thanks all. So welcoming!   A tube-related question seems the order of the day.
  
 I've went back and read through (some of) this thread and found most discussion, with regards to new-production tubes, revolves around the rectifier.  
 I was wondering if there were current production tubes that would work in the other slots of the WA22.   I've been working through the compatibility chart and google, but i keep getting lost when one model is known by several numbers, etc. I.W. is it possible to have all 5 tubes from Sophia Electric, EML or Takatsuki, etc. (Those are the only current production brands I know of)


----------



## Badas

Hhhmmm, damn good question. I'm unaware of any new production 6080 power tubes. So that question may be no. 

NOS ( New old stock) is generally better anyway. Other than the Taks (which you can only use their rectifier in the WA22) NOS beats in sound quality.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Big THANKS to Addicted To Audio for hosting an incredible evening with friends and music. If you're in the Sydney area, please pay Addicted to Audio a visit.


----------



## effles

Jesus, there's some nice gear there. The He1000 on the Wa234 must be stunning, definitely something I'd love to try one day.


----------



## bpcans

Wow HiFiGuy528, pictures of Woo hp amps. Who would've thought? Fantastic photos sir. We sure could use some more Woo representation at our next Minneapolis HeadFi meet. Is it possible to buy one, as in a singular, Takatsuki 274B rectifier tube for my Woo WA6 amp, and do you think the TA274B's exorbitant cost justifies such a tube upgrade? Full disclosure, I currently have a Sophia Electric Princess, a Brimar 5Z4GY, and a USAF 596 rectifier that I use most often with my Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes.


----------



## Audiogalore

hifiguy528 said:


> Big THANKS to Addicted To Audio for hosting an incredible evening with friends and music. If you're in the Sydney area, please pay Addicted to Audio a visit.


 
 Addicted to Audio certainly has a fantastic display and one of if not the best looking audio retail outlet for headphones I've encountered from photos shown.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## JamesBr

hifiguy528 said:


> Big THANKS to Addicted To Audio for hosting an incredible evening with friends and music. If you're in the Sydney area, please pay Addicted to Audio a visit.


 
  
 The pros have spoken hehe, Looks awesome!


----------



## isquirrel

bpcans said:


> Wow HiFiGuy528, pictures of Woo hp amps. Who would've thought? Fantastic photos sir. We sure could use some more Woo representation at our next Minneapolis HeadFi meet. Is it possible to buy one, as in a singular, Takatsuki 274B rectifier tube for my Woo WA6 amp, and do you think the TA274B's exorbitant cost justifies such a tube upgrade? Full disclosure, I currently have a Sophia Electric Princess, a Brimar 5Z4GY, and a USAF 596 rectifier that I use most often with my Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes.


 

 Hey mate, the Tak 274B is the best rectifier including the WE's that I had heard, it looks like the lifespan is going to be at least 10,000 hours and I wouldn't be surprised if it were similar to the WE's at 30-50K what I am driving at its a good value proposition if you factor its lifespan in and SQ


----------



## isquirrel

hifiguy528 said:


> Big THANKS to Addicted To Audio for hosting an incredible evening with friends and music. If you're in the Sydney area, please pay Addicted to Audio a visit.


 
  
 Unfortunately didn't make it there, have to give Addicted to Audio a big thumbs up though as they are the best Headphone/Computer Audio specialist in Australia by a mile


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> Hey mate, the Tak 274B is the best rectifier including the WE's that I had heard, it looks like the lifespan is going to be at least 10,000 hours and I wouldn't be surprised if it were similar to the WE's at 30-50K what I am driving at its a good value proposition if you factor its lifespan in and SQ


That's good to know squirrel. It would be much easier to surreptitiously slip a new tube into the house than it would be a new pair of hp's.


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> Hey mate, the Tak 274B is the best rectifier including the WE's that I had heard, it looks like the lifespan is going to be at least 10,000 hours and I wouldn't be surprised if it were similar to the WE's at 30-50K what I am driving at its a good value proposition if you factor its lifespan in and SQ



Wish I could my hands on one.


----------



## isquirrel

I am thinking of buying some more sets of the Tak's for myself and I could then sell off singles to those that are interested


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> I am thinking of buying some more sets of the Tak's for myself and I could then sell off singles to those that are interested



Let me know. I'll take a 274 if you do.


----------



## sathyam

Here's my setup with the headphones. Aurender X100 Server, PS Audio DirectStream DAC & WA5-LE with TA-300B, GE 6SN7GT & TA-274B.


----------



## joseph69

I believe it was you who was telling me to give the TTVJ Flat Pads some time after I only tried them briefly 3 times and didn't like them, correct?
 Well if so, I've decided to give them another try tonight on your advise, and will continue to use them with the RS1i's for a while and see how I like them compared to the Grado (L) cushions.
 If is wasn't you, well at least you know what I'm listening to tonight!


----------



## bpcans

isquirrel said:


> I am thinking of buying some more sets of the Tak's for myself and I could then sell off singles to those that are interested


*


3083joe said:



			Let me know. I'll take a 274 if you do.
		
Click to expand...

*squirrel, you are the best.


----------



## Audiogalore

sathyam said:


> Here's my setup with the headphones. Aurender X100 Server, PS Audio DirectStream DAC & WA5-LE with TA-300B, GE 6SN7GT & TA-274B.


 
 Very nice setup.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## sathyam

audiogalore said:


> Very nice setup.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 
  
 Thanks! I am constantly in Audiophile Nirvana, when at home


----------



## isquirrel

sathyam said:


> Here's my setup with the headphones. Aurender X100 Server, PS Audio DirectStream DAC & WA5-LE with TA-300B, GE 6SN7GT & TA-274B.


 

 Great looking system and with top notch comments I bet it would sound excellent. Any plans for upgrades from here?


----------



## daverich4

isquirrel said:


> I am thinking of buying some more sets of the Tak's for myself and I could then sell off singles to those that are interested




I would probably be interested. My current fave rectifier is the WE422a but if there is something better I'd be willing to try it.


----------



## Audiogalore

isquirrel said:


> Great looking system and with top notch comments I bet it would sound excellent. Any plans for upgrades from here?


 
   


sathyam said:


> Thanks! I am constantly in Audiophile Nirvana, when at home


 
 Yes I quite understand the feeling. Your setup has a lot in common with mine. Source, Amplifier and some of the same headphones. WA5 has great synergy with my HD800.


----------



## sathyam

isquirrel said:


> Great looking system and with top notch comments I bet it would sound excellent. Any plans for upgrades from here?




Thanks!

May get the TS RPs. Know a good store I can buy them? But that is it for now.

In 2-3 years, may get a Lampizator Big 7 DAC.

This system sounds great with HE-1000 and Abyss. I like the PS Audio DirectStream DAC. Their latest firmware update was awesome. Bigger soundstage, better details and more weight to the sound. PS Audio has been diligently releasing one firmware update every year, tuning the sound for the better.


----------



## sathyam

audiogalore said:


> Yes I quite understand the feeling. Your setup has a lot in common with mine. Source, Amplifier and some of the same headphones. WA5 has great synergy with my HD800.




I haven't tried the HD800. I am waiting for an adapter to listen to it.


----------



## Audiogalore

sathyam said:


> I haven't tried the HD800. I am waiting for an adapter to listen to it.


 
 Well quite frankly I would be curious when you have the opportunity finally trying the HD800 and what your thoughts are.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Audiogalore

sathyam said:


> Thanks!
> 
> May get the TS RPs. Know a good store I can buy them? But that is it for now.
> 
> ...


 
 TP RPs are hard to find and make sure they are the 1942 year tubes if you want the authenticated tubes! Sometimes on rare occasions you will find them on Audiogon. I use a set in my WA5 and they are best driver tubes.


----------



## isquirrel

sathyam said:


> Thanks!
> 
> May get the TS RPs. Know a good store I can buy them? But that is it for now.
> 
> ...


 

 I have 14 sets or so of good ones, I had 21 but I got rid of anything substandard, They are all 1940's vintage and inter original boxes. PM me if you are interested. I would listen tot eh Lampi before you commit you will either love it or not. It that's sort of DSAC, not my thing but plenty of people love them.


----------



## isquirrel

Guys, I have decided to stay in Headphone world for a few reasons, main one was a decent 2 channel system needs its own dedicated room to sound its best (which we can't do ATM) and DHC coming up with a solution with Woo to be able to run 2 of the same headphones, thereby reliving the wife pressure of able to share the listening
  
 Decided to go the Analog route instead. A teaser for what I have in mind.....


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> Decided to go the Analog route instead. A teaser for what I have in mind.....


 
 WOW that is nice looking!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 


>


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Guys, I have decided to stay in Headphone world for a few reasons, main one was a decent 2 channel system needs its own dedicated room to sound its best (which we can't do ATM) and DHC coming up with a solution with Woo to be able to run 2 of the same headphones, thereby reliving the wife pressure of able to share the listening
> 
> Decided to go the Analog route instead. A teaser for what I have in mind.....




 Looks good, a proper high end analogue setup would sound amazing with headphones! Now it's time to build up the collection. 
 Would see a lot more use than the 2ch system without a dedicated room and now, well once the adaptor arrives, you'll both be able to enjoy it.
 Any word on what you'll be doing for the cartridge, phono stage and tonearm?


----------



## 3083joe

Well now that I'm running tubes that cost twice as much as my wa6 it's time to upgrade. Wa22 in a few days. Excited. But in the mean time. Go straight to the we422 well worth it. Could have bought several of them with the money I wasted (but enjoyed the road) trying just about every rectifier/driver combo.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Guys, I have decided to stay in Headphone world for a few reasons, main one was a decent 2 channel system needs its own dedicated room to sound its best (which we can't do ATM) and DHC coming up with a solution with Woo to be able to run 2 of the same headphones, thereby reliving the wife pressure of able to share the listening
> 
> Decided to go the Analog route instead. A teaser for what I have in mind.....




Awesome. I saw that TT on Facebook a few weeks ago. Nearly fell off my chair when I saw it.

I enjoy doing totally old school with a TT and tubes. Warms my heart thinking no DAC is being used. 

Sounds great also.


----------



## Stereolab42

An $80,000 turntable? Seriously?


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> An $80,000 turntable? Seriously?




Hey man, someone has to do it. 

I think it's great it is someone we know. 

I might have to take a plane trip over to take a listen.


----------



## jsa_ind

Hi All,

 Could you please help me out?
  
 I have a Woo Audio WA2

 Is there any difference in sound between a Osram 6AS7G & a GEC 6AS7G...or are they the same tube, branded differently?

 Also I was experimenting by putting multilayers of golf lead tape around the base of my WE 421A's and found that the 3 dimension, airiness & bass increased substantially....is this just my imagination or is there a scientific explanation behind this phenomena?

 Please help!

 Thanks,

 jsa_ind


----------



## jhljhl

jsa_ind said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Could you please help me out?
> 
> ...


 

 You are probably dampening the tube vibrations. ?


----------



## jsa_ind

Could be,,,it is so weird...yet sounds so good!!  !!


----------



## jhljhl

jsa_ind said:


> Could be,,,it is so weird...yet sounds so good!!  !!


 
 http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm
  
 Yeah, I think you are reducing microphonics.


----------



## jhljhl

Reposting from another thread:
  
  I was looking for a comparison between the WA2 and Crack with Speedball.  I heard the Crack with Speedball and really enjoyed the smooth "hallow"/holographic sound but warm "romantic" ("euphonic"?) with the hd650.  I wondered what it was like compared to the WA2?  I've never heard the WA2. 
  
 I may want to purchase it again or the WA2- I like the OTL sound quite a bit and miss it.  Anyone hear Glenn's OTL?  I have a WA22 and enjoy it very much with my LCD3f and HD800.  But there was something very synergistic and simple with it and the hd650 - also good with the hd800 (but prefer the WA22 I think noticeably).  I have a csp2+ which is otl but is not as "romantic" and much more neutral - excellent pre-amp I think is its main design purpose thus its neutrality.  It is like a less warm or neutral than Crack with Speedball with a more defined sound signature more detailed less rounded.
  
 Generally speaking, the WA22 is the best of both worlds with tube rolling between the WA6 and WA2 type sound - esp. with tube rolling.  I think this is how Woo Audio planned their product line.


----------



## Khragon

stereolab42 said:


> An $80,000 turntable? Seriously?




If you build it, they will come. . If you can afford it more power to you, go for it. Rather an $80k turn table than an $80k purse.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

There is something quite therapeutic about swapping vinyl, and admiring cover art...


----------



## Audiogalore

buttuglyjeff said:


> There is something quite therapeutic about swapping vinyl, and admiring cover art...


 
 Quite true. Ours ear are trained to hear analog not digital 1s and 0s for sure!
  
 Enjoy music


----------



## ru4music

jsa_ind said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Could you please help me out?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Osram is a rebranded GEC (generally.) Always check to make sure the construction of the Osram matches a GEC build to be sure.


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> Reposting from another thread:
> 
> I was looking for a comparison between the WA2 and Crack with Speedball.  I heard the Crack with Speedball and really enjoyed the smooth "hallow"/holographic sound but warm "romantic" ("euphonic"?) with the hd650.  I wondered what it was like compared to the WA2?  I've never heard the WA2.
> 
> ...


 

 Your speaking to the same synergy (i.e. smooth resonating warmth) between the WA3 and HD650.  I have since sold my WA3 but will attempt some listening sessions with my WA2 and HD650 to see if the similar synergy exists.  I generally listen to my HD800 or T-1s with the WA2; provides greater detail, sound stage, and imaging etc.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Reposting from another thread:
> 
> 
> I was looking for a comparison between the WA2 and Crack with Speedball.  I heard the Crack with Speedball and really enjoyed the smooth "hallow"/holographic sound but warm "romantic" ("euphonic"?) with the hd650.  I wondered what it was like compared to the WA2?  I've never heard the WA2.
> ...



I was told the wA2 is maybe the best out there for 650s
Now that doesn't take into account Glenn's otl! 
Cracks good but believe right combo of tubes the wa2 may be better. 
Just my 2 cents


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> I was told the wA2 is maybe the best out there for 650s
> Now that doesn't take into account Glenn's otl!
> Cracks good but believe right combo of tubes the wa2 may be better.
> Just my 2 cents


 
  
 I might get one someday - curious about otl amps now.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I might get one someday - curious about otl amps now.



For sure. 
I am ordering wa22 tomorrow or Tuesday and already put my order in with Glenn


----------



## Krutsch

jsa_ind said:


> ...
> 
> Also I was experimenting by putting multilayers of golf lead tape around the base of my WE 421A's and found that the 3 dimension, airiness & bass increased substantially....is this just my imagination or is there a scientific explanation behind this phenomena?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jhljhl said:


> You are probably dampening the tube vibrations. ?


 
  
 I think it's possible that this is the case. I personally have experimented with both vibration dampening socket-savers (e.g. from Tube Monger) and with tube dampers that rest on the glass itself (e.g. from Mapleshade). I am somewhat convinced that these things help to reduce microphonics; but, don't expect miracles.
  
 Here's a repost of a photo that shows what mean (as always, YMMV):


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> For sure.
> I am ordering wa22 tomorrow or Tuesday and already put my order in with Glenn


 

 Nice, on both counts!  Which amp are you ordering from Glenn?


----------



## bpcans

Oh oh, I came home tonight, walked into my livingroom where I have my listening station, and discovered that I probably left my WA6 switched on since Saturday morning, Of course I immediately turned the WA6 off. I was in such a hurry to get to Duluth for our 7 week old daughters family shower that I once again acted like a human male responding to the orders of my wife to get on the road. Question: is my amp fried, are my super expensive, for me, Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers dead, and more importantly, is my prized "Mighty" USAF 596 rectifier tube a glorious sonic memory? Bear with me, because I'm writing this post thru alligator tears.


----------



## Khragon

Probably just fine, no need to over worry. Give it an hour or two rest and the give it a listen.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Nice, on both counts!  Which amp are you ordering from Glenn?



Thanks. 
That is why I'm going to sell the wa6
As for Glenn's. I'm think I'm going with the otl with 6 6BL7s or 6BX7s and can still use 6AS7s and all it's variants. But we are still discussing as I'm 2 month back on his list.


----------



## bpcans

khragon said:


> Probably just fine, no need to over worry. Give it an hour or two rest and the give it a listen.


Khragon, thank you sir for ameliorating my self induced panic. I'll check them in a couple of hours. Right now though it's baby time.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Thanks.
> That is why I'm going to sell the wa6
> As for Glenn's. I'm think I'm going with the otl with 6 6BL7s or 6BX7s and can still use 6AS7s and all it's variants. But we are still discussing as I'm 2 month back on his list.


 

 My Red Wine Audio Sig 16/Cassabria amp is a hybrid amp.  It is very transparent with a totally black background however the input tube only adds some good coloration (either in mids or treble extension) however then the syrupy romantic/euphonic/smooth richness is missing as compared to an OTL.  It is like a light honey amber color to a very light medium at its darkest depending on input tube.  But the rich molasses smooth dark texture of an OTL is probably why I miss a bit of because that sound I cannot dial in.
  
 I wonder how that Glenn amp is?


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> Oh oh, I came home tonight, walked into my livingroom where I have my listening station, and discovered that I probably left my WA6 switched on since Saturday morning, Of course I immediately turned the WA6 off. I was in such a hurry to get to Duluth for our 7 week old daughters family shower that I once again acted like a human male responding to the orders of my wife to get on the road. Question: is my amp fried, are my super expensive, for me, Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers dead, and more importantly, is my prized "Mighty" USAF 596 rectifier tube a glorious sonic memory? Bear with me, because I'm writing this post thru alligator tears.


 
 Sorry to hear this, but I would think that the amp/tubes are fine.
 I hope everything is alright, please let us know when you give it a try.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> My Red Wine Audio Sig 16/Cassabria amp is a hybrid amp.  It is very transparent with a totally black background however the input tube only adds some good coloration (either in mids or treble extension) however then the syrupy romantic/euphonic/smooth richness is missing as compared to an OTL.  It is like a light honey amber color to a very light medium at its darkest depending on input tube.  But the rich molasses smooth dark texture of an OTL is probably why I miss a bit of because that sound I cannot dial in.
> 
> I wonder how that Glenn amp is?



I hear nothing but wonderful things about it. 
Here's a review 
http://bit.ly/1MwgXwd


----------



## ru4music

bpcans said:


> Oh oh, I came home tonight, walked into my livingroom where I have my listening station, and discovered that I probably left my WA6 switched on since Saturday morning, Of course I immediately turned the WA6 off. I was in such a hurry to get to Duluth for our 7 week old daughters family shower that I once again acted like a human male responding to the orders of my wife to get on the road. Question: is my amp fried, are my super expensive, for me, Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers dead, and more importantly, is my prized "Mighty" USAF 596 rectifier tube a glorious sonic memory? Bear with me, because I'm writing this post thru alligator tears.


 

 You'll be fine, if anything you just helped to settle-in and open-up your amp and tubes for the better.  In this scenario, if any of the tube filaments were not lit (i.e. a tube was out) and/ or the amp transformers were to hot to touch then you should be cautious and inspect your setup.  Remember, in the old days vacuum tubes were on 24 x 7 on many a platform!  One of the hardest conditions for a tube is at startup when the tube is warming up and high voltage is being applied to the plate, once these stabilize the amp and tubes cruise along.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Thanks.
> That is why I'm going to sell the wa6
> As for Glenn's. I'm think I'm going with the otl with 6 6BL7s or 6BX7s and can still use 6AS7s and all it's variants. But we are still discussing as I'm 2 month back on his list.


 

  
 So would that be using 6 6AS7s (i.e. 3 per channel or 1 per channel ?)


----------



## daverich4

bpcans said:


> Oh oh, I came home tonight, walked into my livingroom where I have my listening station, and discovered that I probably left my WA6 switched on since Saturday morning, Of course I immediately turned the WA6 off. I was in such a hurry to get to Duluth for our 7 week old daughters family shower that I once again acted like a human male responding to the orders of my wife to get on the road. Question: is my amp fried, are my super expensive, for me, Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers dead, and more importantly, is my prized "Mighty" USAF 596 rectifier tube a glorious sonic memory? Bear with me, because I'm writing this post thru alligator tears.




I've done that several times to my WA22 with no ill effects that I'm aware of. Made me a little ill the first time it happened though.


----------



## bpcans

ru4music said:


> You'll be fine, if anything you just helped to settle-in and open-up your amp and tubes for the better.  In this scenario, if any of the tube filaments were not lit (i.e. a tube was out) and/ or the amp transformers were to hot to touch then you should be cautious and inspect your setup.  Remember, in the old days vacuum tubes were on 24 x 7 on many a platform!  One of the hardest conditions for a tube is at startup when the tube is warming up and high voltage is being applied to the plate, once these stabilize the amp and tubes cruise along.


*


daverich4 said:



			I've done that several times to my WA22 with no ill effects that I'm aware of. Made me a little ill the first time it happened though.
		
Click to expand...

*Thanks a lot guys. I was able to sleep after your reassurances. I turned the WA6 on this morning, let it warm up for twenty minutes, plugged my hp's in, and everything was a-okay.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Thanks for the recommendations all! I ended up picking up @jhljhl's TS BGRPs. Initial reaction is that these sound much more lush than my CV181T-IIs.


----------



## Badas

Very nice tube arrangement.
  
 Psvane rectifier right? I'm guessing Tung-Sol 5998 or 6AS7G power tubes as well.
  
 Don't mind me I like to quiz myself by looking at the pics.
  
 That arrangement should be super lush with a big sound stage. Just like I love it.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Very nice tube arrangement.
> 
> Psvane rectifier right? I'm guessing Tung-Sol 5998 or 6AS7G power tubes as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Going to Pick up a pair of TS 5998s
 Wonder what the Psvane sounds like compared to WE422


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Going to Pick up a pair of TS 5998s
> Wonder what the Psvane sounds like compared to WE422


 

 It takes a lot of burn in. I had one for a week and I was impressed. It didn't blow me away but I liked a lot about it.
  
 The Brimar 5Z4GY has it beat in a lot of areas. Especially bass.


----------



## jhljhl

indiegradofan said:


> Thanks for the recommendations all! I ended up picking up @jhljhl
> 's TS BGRPs. Initial reaction is that these sound much more lush than my CV181T-IIs.




This is my present setup as well but with 422a. Very layered textured holographic 3d depth sound to me. After burn in ts bgrp gets more defined. Enjoying with hd800 large lush soundscape.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> It takes a lot of burn in. I had one for a week and I was impressed. It didn't blow me away but I liked a lot about it.
> 
> The Brimar 5Z4GY has it beat in a lot of areas. Especially bass.


 

 cool, 
 I have a Brimar u52 and love it as well as the we422


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> Very nice tube arrangement.
> 
> Psvane rectifier right? I'm guessing Tung-Sol 5998 or 6AS7G power tubes as well.
> 
> ...


 

 You got it -- TS5998 and a Psvane 1:1 replica. I have a few Brimars. I've only used the Brimars in my WA6 but I'll try one in place of the 1:1.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Going to Pick up a pair of TS 5998s
> Wonder what the Psvane sounds like compared to WE422




I got a 422a adapter from Glenn for my WA22. Not necessary but it makes the background blacker to me. Also I'm selling a pair of 5998 pm if interested. Spare NOS. I bought a number of spares of different tubes once I knew what I liked.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I got a 422a adapter from Glenn for my WA22. Not necessary but it makes the background blacker to me. Also I'm selling a pair of 5998 pm if interested. Spare NOS. I bought a number of spares of different tubes once I knew what I liked.



That sounds good. I'll pm you. What is the adapter for 422?
Can you post a pic of the adapter. Very curious to see it and Glenn hasn't responded. 
Thanks


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> That sounds good. I'll pm you. What is the adapter for 422?




I'm not 100% but the WA22 is not perfectly wired for it. I think Glenn can explain better.


----------



## GrindingThud

Glenns post here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread/1245#post_11755537



jhljhl said:


> I'm not 100% but the WA22 is not perfectly wired for it. I think Glenn can explain better.


----------



## jhljhl

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281737237431
  
 I think a T1 sale because there is a T1 revision being sold soon I saw in another thread?


----------



## abvolt

what a deal on the T1's wow I may have to give them a go at that price..


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I got a 422a adapter from Glenn for my WA22. Not necessary but it makes the background blacker to me. Also I'm selling a pair of 5998 pm if interested. Spare NOS. I bought a number of spares of different tubes once I knew what I liked.



PM sent.


----------



## daverich4

jhljhl said:


> I got a 422a adapter from Glenn for my WA22. Not necessary but it makes the background blacker to me. Also I'm selling a pair of 5998 pm if interested. Spare NOS. I bought a number of spares of different tubes once I knew what I liked.




You don't get hum when using the 422a without the adapter? I did with 3 different 422a's. The adapter changes the writing of the pins and completely eliminated the hum for me.


----------



## 3083joe

daverich4 said:


> You don't get hum when using the 422a without the adapter? I did with 3 different 422a's. The adapter changes the writing of the pins and completely eliminated the hum for me.



I get no hum at all with the 422 on the wa6 with out the adapter.


----------



## daverich4

3083joe said:


> I get no hum at all with the 422 on the wa6 with out the adapter.


 

 I'm pretty sure you do need it for the WA22 though which is the amp jhljhl and I were discussing. At least mine did.


----------



## 3083joe

daverich4 said:


> I'm pretty sure you do need it for the WA22 though which is the amp jhljhl and I were discussing. At least mine did.



Yeah it's probably good in wa6 and not wa22. So I best get an adaptor.
Thanks


----------



## jhljhl

daverich4 said:


> You don't get hum when using the 422a without the adapter? I did with 3 different 422a's. The adapter changes the writing of the pins and completely eliminated the hum for me.


 

 No I had no hum issues.  However, it does make a difference to me in the blackness of the background.


----------



## 3083joe

Ordered my WA22


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281737237431
> 
> I think a T1 sale because there is a T1 revision being sold soon I saw in another thread?


 

 Beyerdynamics sanctions a sale like that every so often on the T-1 hp.  I bought my pair close to that sale price a couple of years ago from a similar ebay auction.  My experience with the T-1 is that they are not worth the list price ($1,399 US), but at the price from your link (above) and with an upgraded hp cable they do ok (my 2 cents.)


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> Ordered my WA22


Sweet! Way to go Joe. You are going to be one happy boy.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Ordered my WA22


 

 And the wait... begins!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Ordered my WA22


 

 You are going to be an asset to the WA22 club. Great news.


----------



## Khragon

3083joe said:


> Ordered my WA22




Upgradetitis claimed another victim.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

3083joe said:


> Ordered my WA22


 
  
 be sure to share some pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> You are going to be an asset to the WA22 club. Great news.



Thanks my friend.


----------



## Audiogalore

hifiguy528 said:


> be sure to share some pics or it didn't happen.


 
 Pictures tells the real deal, black or silver? This amp will definitely put a smile on your face for sure.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## 3083joe

audiogalore said:


> Pictures tells the real deal, black or silver? This amp will definitely put a smile on your face for sure.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 

 I will post the pics when i receive it,
 I got the silver, even tho I wanted black, but my wa6 is black so I thought id go with silver


----------



## jhljhl

^WA22 silver - like armor.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I will post the pics when i receive it,
> I got the silver, even tho I wanted black, but my wa6 is black so I thought id go with silver


 

 I really like my black one but bloody **** it shows dust like mad.
  
 All my equipment is black but the Woo shows dust the worst. I dunno why.
  
 Silver is more practical.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I really like my black one but bloody **** it shows dust like mad.
> 
> All my equipment is black but the Woo shows dust the worst. I dunno why.
> 
> Silver is more practical.


 

 Yeah really like the black, very sleek but it does show the dust, have to clean it near daily


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yeah really like the black, very sleek but it does show the dust, have to clean it near daily


 

 I have a dedicated Home Theater room. No foot traffic. Not open to anything.
  
 Yet I almost still have to clean it daily. It's just the way the black Woo's are.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yeah really like the black, very sleek but it does show the dust, have to clean it near daily


 

 Me too.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Yeah really like the black, very sleek but it does show the dust, have to clean it near daily


 
  
  


badas said:


> I have a dedicated Home Theater room. No foot traffic. Not open to anything.
> 
> Yet I almost still have to clean it daily. It's just the way the black Woo's are.


 
  
  


jhljhl said:


> Me too.


 
  
 I use an appropriate sized and colored (e.g. gray) cotton bath towel as a dust cover for my electronic equipment (i.e. toys.)  Inexpensive and you can buy different sizes/ styles  based on the need.  Works very well and looks good too, just make sure you turn of the tubes before you cover them up! lol


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> I use an appropriate sized and colored (e.g. gray) cotton bath towel as a dust cover for my electronic equipment (i.e. toys.)  Inexpensive and you can buy different sizes/ styles  based on the need.  Works very well and looks good too, just make sure you turn of the tubes before you cover them up! lol


 

 Smart!


----------



## 3083joe

Diggin this album.


----------



## 3083joe

Got to say this brimar 5z3 with Glenn's adapter can't be beat. Might sound better than my we422 or maybe it's just the burnin. Not sure but it's a real nice tube.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Got to say this brimar 5z3 with Glenn's adapter can't be beat. Might sound better than my we422 or maybe it's just the burnin. Not sure but it's a real nice tube.


 
  
 Pic please?


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Diggin this album.


 

 I don't have any Louis, hows the recording?  If it's clean and well done with lots of PRaT I may order it!


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> I don't have any Louis, hows the recording?  If it's clean and well done with lots of PRaT I may order it!



Yes it's done very well as is plays king Oliver. His Ella and Louis best of is wonderful also.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Pic please?



Best I can show as its on and hot right now. 
This is a pic when I first got it. I'll show one tomorrow with adapter, etc. 
Basically same as 5u4 but with 4 pins not 5.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yes it's done very well as is plays king Oliver. His Ella and Louis best of is wonderful also.


 
  
 I got this last week from the same era. I haven't listened to it yet. It should be interesting. 3 albums.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I got this last week from the same era. I haven't listened to it yet. It should be interesting. 3 albums.



Very nice. Max roach is a beast


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Best I can show as its on and hot right now.
> This is a pic when I first got it. I'll show one tomorrow with adapter, etc.
> Basically same as 5u4 but with 4 pins not 5.


 

 Interesting. It looks like a Fivre that I have. Fivre 5R4GY.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Interesting. It looks like a Fivre that I have. Fivre 5R4GY.



Yes as for construction. Very similar to my nu, rca, sylvania and etc 5u4G


----------



## abvolt

cool it does look like the a 5u4g or the 5r4gy I have several of each  hows it sound in comparison


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> cool it does look like the a 5u4g or the 5r4gy I have several of each  hows it sound in comparison



One of the best sounding recitifiers I heard.


----------



## abvolt

nice guess I'd better look into this one a little closer thanks..


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Best I can show as its on and hot right now.
> This is a pic when I first got it. I'll show one tomorrow with adapter, etc.
> Basically same as 5u4 but with 4 pins not 5.


 
  
 Sweet looking tube.


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> Hard to say; it's early with the GEC 6AS7G Brown Base tubes and I started with a couple of hours with each one to just to ensure they are functional.
> 
> I've been rolling with the WE421a for quite a while and when I first pushed in the GEC I noticed three things, in order:
> 
> ...


 

 Well, it's been a couple of weeks with the GEC 6AS7G Brown Base. I have to be honest, I was not loving these tubes for a while (see comments #2 and #3 above). But, the hours have gone by (maybe 50 hours of listening? I don't have @isquirrel 's discipline for tracking burn-in).
  
 I am starting to hear the magic with the HD-650s; especially with music like Steely Dan (SACD releases from CD Japan), these tubes really are special. Great warmth and smoothness.
  
 Will they displace the Westys as my favorite? We'll see when I flip the WE421a back in and hear initial impressions.
  
 For classical listening with my HD-700s, they are not cutting it for me - the detail is not there.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> For classical listening with my HD-700s, they are not cutting it for me - the detail is not there.




Wow. You must love treble. HD700 was my first HP. I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. Sooooooo much treble. I could not imagine that HP with a lack of detail.

Damn that HP was super comfy tho.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Wow. You must love treble. HD700 was my first HP. I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. Sooooooo much treble. I could not imagine that HP with a lack of detail.
> 
> Damn that HP was super comfy tho.



Don't see myself as a treble man but I enjoyed the 700 over the 650s in most every situation. Now the 800 seem like a happy medium between the two.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Don't see myself as a treble man but I enjoyed the 700 over the 650s in most every situation. Now the 800 seem like a happy medium between the two.




The HD800 is an amazing HP. I'm considering adding I to the stable. That or the Ether. Not sure yet. 

I want something with a bit more detail than my LCD3's. I don't want to replace the LCD3's. Just on some music you want something different.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> The HD800 is an amazing HP. I'm considering adding I to the stable. That or the Ether. Not sure yet.
> 
> I want something with a bit more detail than my LCD3's. I don't want to replace the LCD3's. Just on some music you want something different.



Yeah. I really enjoy them but I'm kinda a sennheiser fanboy.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Wow. You must love treble. HD700 was my first HP. I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. Sooooooo much treble. *I could not imagine that HP with a lack of detail.*
> 
> Damn that HP was super comfy tho.


 
  
 Sorry, what I meant was: compared to my previous tubes, there is less detail and it's most noticeable with classical music and the HD-700s. Yes, the HD-700 has plenty of treble


----------



## 3083joe

and they are only 5-6 hr from me


----------



## Audiogalore

3083joe said:


> and they are only 5-6 hr from me


 
 Congrats. Let us see some pictures and what you think once received!
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## 3083joe

Got my first power tubes. 
......more to come.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Yeah. I really enjoy them but I'm kinda a sennheiser fanboy.


 
  
 I really like my HD800. I found that modding it helped my enjoyment a great deal - the tendency to get a little rough in the treble is (mostly) gone.
  
 I have also found that the HD800 scales very well with better upstream gear and it really likes to have some power behind it.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> I really like my HD800. I found that modding it helped my enjoyment a great deal - the tendency to get a little rough in the treble is (mostly) gone.
> 
> I have also found that the HD800 scales very well with better upstream gear and it really likes to have some power behind it.



Might want to do that mod myself. And what do you mean by upstream gear? 
I fill sometime the wa6 isn't powerful enough for them either hope the wa22 is better and I'm sure Glenn's otl will for sure when mine is finished.


----------



## TonyNewman

Upstream gear = Amp + DAC. I run mine from a WA5 + Vega DAC. That gear takes the HD800 a very long way.
  
 I have a WA6 and I sometimes plug the HD800 into it for fun - not a great result compared to the above setup. The HD600 is a much better match for the WA6 for me. The WA6 is great little amp, but it isn't going to take the HD800 anywhere close to its limits.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

HD800 is a really nitpicker...It seems like it needs a lot of amp power for it to produce a right amount of bass/oomph.  My WA6SE drives the HD800 ok, but not great.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Upstream gear = Amp + DAC. I run mine from a WA5 + Vega DAC. That gear takes the HD800 a very long way.
> 
> I have a WA6 and I sometimes plug the HD800 into it for fun - not a great result compared to the above setup. The HD600 is a much better match for the WA6 for me. The WA6 is great little amp, but it isn't going to take the HD800 anywhere close to its limits.



Got ya. yeah I'm running pro-ject box dac RS with my wa6. Believe the wa22 will push the 800s better.


----------



## 3083joe

sko0bydoo said:


> HD800 is a really nitpicker...It seems like it needs a lot of amp power for it to produce a right amount of bass/oomph.  My WA6SE drives the HD800 ok, but not great.



Yeah. Wa6 does ok but couple days we will see how the wa22 does with them


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Got my first power tubes.
> ......more to come.


 
  
 The ones on the left (Chatham) are very nice. Held in great regard.
  
 The ones on the right look like Sylvania 6080's relabeled as Tung-Sol. Silky, Holographic sounding tube. Can be a little bright tho. There are fans. Me being one.
  
*Edit: Sorry. Correction. On closer look. They have graphite plates. Definitely not Sylvania. Sorry. I would guess that they are a 7236. Am I correct? They are really nice. Neutral but very fast paced. Teamed up with the right rectifier and drivers they will be stunning.*


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> *Edit: Sorry. Correction. On closer look. They have graphite plates. Definitely not Sylvania. Sorry. I would guess that they are a 7236. Am I correct? They are really nice. Neutral but very fast paced. Teamed up with the right rectifier and drivers they will be stunning.*


 
  
 That's what they look like... a great tube, IMO. I also have the Sylvania 7236 tubes - like those, too.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Yeah. Wa6 does ok but couple days we will see how the wa22 does with them


 
  
 My buddy has the WA22 - it drives the HD800 very well. Perhaps not quite as well as the WA5, but miles better than the WA6.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> My buddy has the WA22 - it drives the HD800 very well. Perhaps not quite as well as the WA5, but miles better than the WA6.


 
  
 I really really liked the HD800 with my WA22. That is why I'm thinking of adding it to the gear I own.
  
 If I was honest I think I liked them just a little bit more than my LCD3's.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I really really liked the HD800 with my WA22. That is why I'm thinking of adding it to the gear I own.
> 
> If I was honest I think I liked them just a little bit more than my LCD3's.


 
  
 Careful - the Audeze fanbois will put you on a hit list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wait until you hear the HD800s driven from the WA5 with the Taks singing. Much, much better than my previous power + rectifier tube set (SERPs + Brimars). It is killer.
  
 HD800 seems to love powerful tube amps. Really brings out the best that this amazing headphone can do - surprised me more than once.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> The ones on the left (Chatham) are very nice. Held in great regard.
> 
> The ones on the right look like Sylvania 6080's relabeled as Tung-Sol. Silky, Holographic sounding tube. Can be a little bright tho. There are fans. Me being one.
> 
> *Edit: Sorry. Correction. On closer look. They have graphite plates. Definitely not Sylvania. Sorry. I would guess that they are a 7236. Am I correct? They are really nice. Neutral but very fast paced. Teamed up with the right rectifier and drivers they will be stunning.*



Yes 7236
Bought from a guy on etsy.com of all places. 
Just ordered a pair of 421a too


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> That's what they look like... a great tube, IMO. I also have the Sylvania 7236 tubes - like those, too.



I have hear some good stuff about the sylvania 7236 s


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yes 7236
> Bought from a guy on etsy.com of all places.
> Just ordered a pair of 421a too


 
  
 You are getting a great collection of power tubes for the WA22. Some of the very best.
  
 Are you planning on using the same rectifiers and drivers that you use on your WA6? They are some of the very best as well.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> You are getting a great collection of power tubes for the WA22. Some of the very best.
> 
> Are you planning on using the same rectifiers and drivers that you use on your WA6? They are some of the very best as well.



Thanks 
Yes. Im going to use the ones I have. 
Brimar u52
Cossor gz37 fat bottle
We422a
And 
Mullard Ecc32 driver
Ts 6f8
Then these new power tubes

Excited for sure!!! 
Just want to get some gec 6as7 power tubes


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Thanks
> Yes. Im going to use the ones I have.
> Brimar u52
> Cossor gz37 fat bottle
> ...


 

 All top notch tubes. It will sound fantastic.


----------



## 3083joe

Ever Use these?


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Ever Use these?


 
  
 I have 3 sets that look exactly the same internally labeled 6AS7G. Two by Tung-Sol, one by Chatham.
 Wonderful tubes. I should be using them actually.


----------



## abvolt

I have a pair of those also and agree they are great tubes mine are the tung sol 6as7g's and you were right *Badas* finding these tubes in good condition is not easy, well worth it when you do great sound..


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I have 3 sets that look exactly the same internally labeled 6AS7G. Two by Tung-Sol, one by Chatham.
> Wonderful tubes. I should be using them actually.



Think I'll pick up a set of these too then.


----------



## 3083joe

Yeaaaaah 
Friday is the day.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yeaaaaah
> Friday is the day.


 

 That is so quick. I had to wait two months for mine last year.


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Ever Use these?


 
  
 I have a pair and I think they are very underrated; they are some of my best sounding power tubes, but the ones I picked up were way cheaper than my other, highly regarded tubes.


----------



## Stereolab42

I did it! After a year of scouring auctions and bugging tube sellers, I've finally completed my goal of kitting out a WA5 completely in 1930s-decade tubes (aside from 300Bs). Technically, WE released the first 300B in 1938, but if any 300Bs remain from 38/39, I wouldn't be able to afford them. However, I was able to afford a selection of RCAs from the 1930s -- two 6F8Gs and two 54Vs. Why RCAs? Because RCA date codes are one of the few which have been thoroughly decoded. If you see a two-digit code, beginning with a letter and ending with a number, you know if it's 1930s if the letter is Z, U, T, or X (1936, 1937, 1938, or 1939).
  
 My two 6F8Gs are both date code "T2" -- which is March/April 1938. The 6F8G was first introduced in '37 or '38, so this is from one of the first production runs. My two 54Vs are U4 and X2 -- which is July/August 1937 and March/April 1939. It appears the 54V was first release in '37 as well, so again I appear to have an early-production one.
  
 
  
 So how do they sound? With my LCD-XCs, absolutely phenomenal. It's really awe-inspiring to sit here and listen to such amazing music come from a setup consisting of both technology that hasn't advanced since the '30s (WA5, Sophia 300Bs), and technology that was actually built in the '30s.
  
 
  
 Great Depression know-how, yo!


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> I really really liked the HD800 with my WA22. That is why I'm thinking of adding it to the gear I own.
> 
> If I was honest I think I liked them just a little bit more than my LCD3's.


 

 I'm the other way around. The HD800's have deep, extended base with my WA22 but always seemed a little lightweight overall. To me, my LCD3's have a fuller, more impactful presentation. They don't have the same clear treble that the HD800's have but I spent a fair amount of time and money rolling tubes trying to tame that a little anyway. YMMV.


----------



## jhljhl

I'm presently debating about selling my WA22 and Taboo MKIII to consolidate to one amp like perhaps the LIO but when I listen to them they are very good amps on their own and complimentary to each other.  And become reluctant to part with them.
  
 Having tried most of the Woo Audio line up. I think I can already tell what the WA5 must sound like. A more powerful and spacious WA22.
  
 I see the WA6 and WA6se as more dynamic solid state.  The WA2 as more tube bloom (though I have not heard it yet but recently acquired one).  The WA22 as a hybrid.


----------



## Audiogalore

jhljhl said:


> I'm presently debating about selling my WA22 and Taboo MKIII to consolidate to one amp like perhaps the LIO but when I listen to them they are very good amps on their own and complimentary to each other.  And become reluctant to part with them.
> 
> Having tried most of the Woo Audio line up. I think I can already tell what the WA5 must sound like. A more powerful and spacious WA22.
> 
> I see the WA6 and WA6se as more dynamic solid state.  The WA2 as more tube bloom (though I have not heard it yet but recently acquired one).  The WA22 as a hybrid.


 
 Pretty much a proper assessment.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## jhljhl

audiogalore said:


> Pretty much a proper assessment.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 

 Reading your reply post I thought of Pink Floyds  "Shine on you crazy diamond." LOL.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Yes it's done very well as is plays king Oliver. His Ella and Louis best of is wonderful also.


 
  
  


badas said:


> I got this last week from the same era. I haven't listened to it yet. It should be interesting. 3 albums.


 

 Ordered, ordered, ordered, and ordered!  At least it's cheaper than buying a new amp (@3083joe!)


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Well, it's been a couple of weeks with the GEC 6AS7G Brown Base. I have to be honest, I was not loving these tubes for a while (see comments #2 and #3 above). But, the hours have gone by (maybe 50 hours of listening? I don't have @isquirrel 's discipline for tracking burn-in).
> 
> I am starting to hear the magic with the HD-650s; especially with music like Steely Dan (SACD releases from CD Japan), these tubes really are special. Great warmth and smoothness.
> 
> ...


 

 I think you may need HD800s (with UP-OCC copper cable) to fully appreciate both of those tube sets!  I understand the HD650/ Steely Dan synergy... I haven't been able to get that overall presentation on anything but the HD650.
  
 Oh, and congratulations!  You are finding the limits on the WA3 (if that's what your testing on.)  Time for a new amp to really bring out the character in that fine glass as well!


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> I really like my HD800. I found that modding it helped my enjoyment a great deal - the tendency to get a little rough in the treble is (mostly) gone.
> 
> I have also found that the HD800 scales very well with better upstream gear and it really likes to have some power behind it.


 

 x2


----------



## musicman59

ru4music said:


> I think you may need HD800s (with UP-OCC copper cable) to fully appreciate both of those tube sets!  I understand the HD650/ Steely Dan synergy... I haven't been able to get that overall presentation on anything but the HD650.


 
 +1 on the HD800. I have mine with the Zeus cable and love them.


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> I think you may need HD800s (with UP-OCC copper cable) to fully appreciate both of those tube sets!  I understand the HD650/ Steely Dan synergy... I haven't been able to get that overall presentation on anything but the HD650.
> 
> Oh, and congratulations!  You are finding the limits on the WA3 (if that's what your testing on.)  Time for a new amp to really bring out the character in that fine glass as well!


 
  
 Agreed on the Steely Dan comment and Thanks! Another win with that combo: the new Jethro Tull remasters from Steven Wilson.
  


musicman59 said:


> +1 on the HD800. I have mine with the Zeus cable and love them.


 
  
 Yes to both suggestions: a new amp (WA2 to leverage my glass collection and stay OTL) and HD-800s.
 I just need to stop spending money on my daughter and my house (a lot of repair work over the last 2 years)


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Ordered, ordered, ordered, and ordered!  At least it's cheaper than buying a new amp (@3083joe
> !)



You are going to enjoy. 
I listen to this one now.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> You are going to enjoy.
> I listen to this one now.


 

 Perfect!


----------



## abvolt

stereolab42 said:


> I did it! After a year of scouring auctions and bugging tube sellers, I've finally completed my goal of kitting out a WA5 completely in 1930s-decade tubes (aside from 300Bs). Technically, WE released the first 300B in 1938, but if any 300Bs remain from 38/39, I wouldn't be able to afford them. However, I was able to afford a selection of RCAs from the 1930s -- two 6F8Gs and two 54Vs. Why RCAs? Because RCA date codes are one of the few which have been thoroughly decoded. If you see a two-digit code, beginning with a letter and ending with a number, you know if it's 1930s if the letter is Z, U, T, or X (1936, 1937, 1938, or 1939).
> 
> My two 6F8Gs are both date code "T2" -- which is March/April 1938. The 6F8G was first introduced in '37 or '38, so this is from one of the first production runs. My two 54Vs are U4 and X2 -- which is July/August 1937 and March/April 1939. It appears the 54V was first release in '37 as well, so again I appear to have an early-production one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks great I also have a number of 30's/40's rca's they sound awesome I really enjoy those tubes, I just got a pair of rca early 40's 6c8g's round black plates they sound so nice..


----------



## reeltime

I'm gonna eat a little crow here.  I have a confession.  I generally think cables are about the silliest thing to blow money on.  Get a decent cable and move on.  I will not spend a lot of money on a piece of wire, as I believe, based on my experience, that it delivers the least bang for the buck along with power cables as far as sound improvement.  
  
 A while back I wrote a review of the HE1000 and delivered a fairly glowing review here, with the exception of one major flaw.  There's a decided lack of attack on snare drums.  They tend to fall back even on tracks where the snare kind of drives the song (songs like Couldn't Stand The Weather and Spirits In The Material World come to mind).  
  
 In another post about the HE1000 someone gave a very positive review of Moon Audio's Silver Dragon cable for the HE1000.  Well it's only a few hundred bucks and I was having a Big Dumb Guy moment where I thought-- Why not?  Just try it.
  
 Ummm.. hate to admit it, but in this case the cable changed my view of this headphone.  I will be selling my beloved HD800 soon.  The HE is now as complete a headphone as I could want.  Those two tracks mentioned above are now perfect.  Can't find anything to bitch about with this new cable.  I've listened to my WA5LE with both the Mighty 596 rectifier and the GZ-34 with this new cable (Elrog 300Bs and RCA 6SN7s unchanged), same improvement with both tubes and this headphone and upgraded cable.  
  
 If you're experiencing a lack of attack on the HE1000, try this cable.  I doubt you will not hear a significant difference.  My old ears picked it up right away.


----------



## shawndo

Quick question.  I thought I read this somewhere on the thread, but now I can't find it.  If you use a Sophia Electric 6SN7 and 274B in a WA22, are the bulbs large enough that they would actually touch?


----------



## 3083joe

shawndo said:


> Quick question.  I thought I read this somewhere on the thread, but now I can't find it.  If you use a Sophia Electric 6SN7 and 274B in a WA22, are the bulbs large enough that they would actually touch?


 

 Yes they are very big, Sophia 274B is one of the biggest if not biggest(fattest) rectifier out there. 
 The Sophia 6SN7 are very similar in size as the GEC 6as7 s so it would be close.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

shawndo said:


> Quick question.  I thought I read this somewhere on the thread, but now I can't find it.  If you use a Sophia Electric 6SN7 and 274B in a WA22, are the bulbs large enough that they would actually touch?


 

 No, they do not (see below) -- however, on a WA6 they do unless you get a socket saver for the rectifier, lifting it by about an inch.


----------



## 3083joe

indiegradofan said:


> No, they do not (see below) -- however, on a WA6 they do unless you get a socket saver for the rectifier, lifting it by about an inch.


 

 Wow lots of room!


----------



## joseph69

indiegradofan said:


> No, they do not (see below) -- however, on a WA6 they do unless you get a socket saver for the rectifier, lifting it by about an inch.


 
 +1
 On the WA6 I had trouble using my SP with my 6F8G's…I could just slide a piece paper between them.


----------



## shawndo

indiegradofan said:


> No, they do not (see below) -- however, on a WA6 they do unless you get a socket saver for the rectifier, lifting it by about an inch.


 
 oooh, pretty. What do you have in the 7236 power slots?


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Quote:


shawndo said:


> oooh, pretty. What do you have in the 7236 power slots?


 
  
 Chatham 2399 aka Tung-Sol 5998. They are my favorite power tubes for the WA22.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

3083joe said:


> I will post the pics when i receive it,
> I got the silver, even tho I wanted black, but my wa6 is black so I thought id go with silver


 
  
 I prefer silver.


----------



## 3083joe

It's here.


----------



## 3083joe

The thing is a beast!!!! 
Night and day difference from wa6!!!


----------



## jhljhl

^Congrats Joe.


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> The thing is a beast!!!!
> Night and day difference from wa6!!!


 
 Nice Mullard ECC32s!


----------



## whirlwind

3083joe said:


> The thing is a beast!!!!
> Night and day difference from wa6!!!


 
 Yeah, nice Mullards....enjoy.


----------



## Khragon

Nice congrats!
  
 Look like you have a set of TOTL tubes already... going to be a fun weekend.


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> The thing is a beast!!!!
> Night and day difference from wa6!!!
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Dude! Simply awesome! What tubes do you have in that shiney new amp?


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> Dude! Simply awesome! What tubes do you have in that shiney new amp?



Brimar u52
Mullard ecc32
Tung sol 7236 graphite


----------



## Stereolab42

Nice! Now go buy this:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tube-/301712627764?hash=item463f795834


----------



## ru4music

indiegradofan said:


> Quote:
> 
> Chatham 2399 aka Tung-Sol 5998. They are my favorite power tubes for the WA22.


 

 Do you prefer the 2399 to a 5998 (I realize they are generalized as being the same?)  I am presently comparing a Chatham 2399 pair to a TS JAN 5998 pair in my WA2, but waiting 100 hour for burn -in of the 2399s before critical listening.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

ru4music said:


> Do you prefer the 2399 to a 5998 (I realize they are generalized as being the same?)  I am presently comparing a Chatham 2399 pair to a TS JAN 5998 pair in my WA2, but waiting 100 hour for burn -in of the 2399s before critical listening.


 

 Hard for me to say in general. I had some very minor noise issues with my 2399 paid -- hence the tube dampeners in the picture. I eventually bought a pair of TS 5998 from vacuumtubes.net and they are silent. I assume that I just got unlucky with the 2399 and the noise isn't a characteristic across the all of them.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> The thing is a beast!!!!
> Night and day difference from wa6!!!


 

 Nice!  Please share your excitement as you break that animal in!!!


----------



## ru4music

indiegradofan said:


> Hard for me to say in general. I had some very minor noise issues with my 2399 paid -- hence the tube dampeners in the picture. I eventually bought a pair of TS 5998 from vacuumtubes.net and they are silent. I assume that I just got unlucky with the 2399 and the noise isn't a characteristic across the all of them.


 

 Is it a microphonic/ feedback type of noise hence the tube dampers?  The 2399 is generally older than a 5998 type so they could be more problematic.  As far as my 2399s go, they have been dead silent (i.e. black background.)


----------



## IndieGradoFan

ru4music said:


> Is it a microphonic/ feedback type of noise hence the tube dampers?  The 2399 is generally older than a 5998 type so they could be more problematic.  As far as my 2399s go, they have been dead silent (i.e. black background.)


 

 Yep -- it would transfer vibrations from my desk.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

3083joe said:


> The thing is a beast!!!!
> Night and day difference from wa6!!!





>


 
  
 So nice....


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Is it a microphonic/ feedback type of noise hence the tube dampers?  The 2399 is generally older than a 5998 type so they could be more problematic.  As far as my 2399s go, they have been dead silent (i.e. black background.)



Where can I get dampers/socket savers for wa22?


----------



## 3083joe

stereolab42 said:


> Nice! Now go buy this:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-United-Electronics-USAF-596-rectifier-tube-/301712627764?hash=item463f795834



I have one. Didn't like it in the wa6 but I'll try it in the wa22


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> The thing is a beast!!!!
> Night and day difference from wa6!!!




Wow. You got it. Congrats dude. Welcome to the WA22 club. Pleased for ya.

They are the best start up tubes I have seen for a new WA22.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Wow. You got it. Congrats dude. Welcome to the WA22 club. Pleased for ya.
> 
> They are the best start up tubes I have seen for a new WA22.



Thanks man, soooo happy. What a step up. 
My 5998 should be here tomorrow. 
But trying to get some Gec 6as7s


----------



## abvolt

Very nice indeed *3080joe* and with such a great tube selection..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Very nice indeed *3080joe* and with such a great tube selection..



Thanks.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Where can I get dampers/socket savers for wa22?


 

 You'll need to search for  "tube dampers" and "tube socket savers" on the internet.  I don't use any myself (so I have no recommendation), but I do know Tube Monger sells socket savers.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> You'll need to search for  "tube dampers" and "tube socket savers" on the internet.  I don't use any myself (so I have no recommendation), but I do know Tube Monger sells socket savers.



Thanks found dampers but not maybe savers


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> You'll need to search for  "tube dampers" and "tube socket savers" on the internet.  I don't use any myself (so I have no recommendation), but I do know Tube Monger sells socket savers.


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> Thanks found dampers but not maybe savers


 

 The socket savers from Tube Monger serve both purposes. I used to use the ceramic/brass socket savers from eBay that are popular here, but I had issues with the little brass sleeves pulling out of the socket terminals with some tighter fitting tubes.


----------



## Audiogalore

3083joe said:


> The thing is a beast!!!!
> Night and day difference from wa6!!!


 
 Congrats! 
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## masterfuu

audiogalore said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Enjoy music!




Wa2 or wa22?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

masterfuu said:


> Wa2 or wa22?


 
  
 it's a WA22. 
  
 http://wooaudio.com/products/wa22.html


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> The socket savers from Tube Monger serve both purposes. I used to use the ceramic/brass socket savers from eBay that are popular here, *but I had issues with the little brass sleeves pulling out of the socket terminals with some tighter fitting tubes.*


 
  
 Good to know.


----------



## daverich4

3083joe said:


> Thanks man, soooo happy. What a step up.
> My 5998 should be here tomorrow.
> But trying to get some Gec 6as7s


 

 Yer gonna like the 5998's.


----------



## ru4music

daverich4 said:


> Yer gonna like the 5998's.


 

 x2


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> You'll need to search for  "tube dampers" and "tube socket savers" on the internet.  I don't use any myself (so I have no recommendation), but I do know Tube Monger sells socket savers.



I order 5 for all the sockets. 
Thanks


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> I order 5 for all the sockets.
> Thanks


 

 NP!  They're kind-of expensive, but with your growing *tube* collection I guess you need to *roll* with it (pun intended!)


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> I order 5 for all the sockets.
> Thanks


 

 Did you end up going with the Tube Monger versions? Just curious...


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Did you end up going with the Tube Monger versions? Just curious...



Yes. A bit expensive but seem really really nice compared to China versions on eBay.


----------



## isquirrel

Do the tube dampeners improve the sound?


----------



## isquirrel

Thought I would share this here. I heard a YouTube recording of a $150,000 Turntable playing back a good recording via a very expensive "big rig"
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr2Ji1poTos
  
 You can also download the same file recorded off the same setup in 24/96 at this link 
  
 http://www.analogplanet.com/images/0715Copland.aiff
  
 Its cool to hear it through headphones


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> Do the tube dampeners improve the sound?



That's what I hear, guess I'll let you know soon.


----------



## abvolt

isquirrel said:


> Thought I would share this here. I heard a YouTube recording of a $150,000 Turntable playing back a good recording via a very expensive "big rig"
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr2Ji1poTos
> 
> ...


 
  
 That was cool thanks..


----------



## TonyNewman

This is a post I have been waiting a long time to write. As some of you may know, I am a big fan of the C3G driver. It is simply a stunning tube - absolutely transparent, with dynamics and extension that puts anything else I have heard to shame (including the TS RP).
  
 Unfortunately, I could not get this superb tube to work correctly in my WA5. I tried all sorts of things to fix the issue, but the tonality was consistently off, and I blew a C3G. Then I had a breakthrough - my HeadFi buddy Badas was over at my place this evening for some headphone goodness, and he made the discovery that backing off the Auralic Vega digital volume output to around 80 (from 100) reduced distortion in the WA5 output. This led to my remembering the the Vega has 'hot' output at around 4V, while most consumer equipment is around 2 to 2.5V.
  
 So I backed the Vega digital output to 60, then put in my C3G drivers - the result - audio NIRVANA.
  
 Now my tube mix is TA300B / Lorenz C3G / TA274B. Does it get any better than that? Doubt it. Sound is wonderfully detailed and extended, combined with the smooth loveliness of the Takatsukis  - simply divine in every way.
  
 Better than the 6C8G TS RP drivers I was using before? YES. The C3G is simply a superior tube. I have no doubt about that in my mind (and ears). YMMV (as always).
  
 For those using the Vega DAC - back off the volume control to 60 or 70 and see what happens. Best info I can find is that this will NOT degrade the SQ of the Vega output, and just might supply your downstream gear with a signal it can cope with a lot better than the 4V signal it will get with the Vega running full bore. Even if you are not running C3Gs that 4V output could be introducing distorting in your amp - back off the digital output and see what happens.
  
 I am driving a modded HE6, so dropping the Vega output back to 60 does mean that my volume pot moves from 11 o'clock to 2 o'clock on my WA5 using K1K output. The WA5 still has plenty of juice to drive these beastie headphones.
  
 So if you are a WA5 user - try these drivers - you just might get to love them as I do. Just remember to back off the Vega output (if you are using that DAC), otherwise things might end very badly.
  
 Some pics - WA5 with Lorenz C3Gs and Takatsukis doing their thing.


----------



## devilboy

This is a bit late but congats on your 22 Joe. She's a beauty.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> This is a bit late but congats on your 22 Joe. She's a beauty.


 

 Thanks My friend


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Do the tube dampeners improve the sound?


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> That's what I hear, guess I'll let you know soon.


 

 Well, I am not sure if they do or do not; Tube Monger, of course, says they do. But I continue using them, as they are well made.
  
 Using a combination of these silicon-filled socket savers and tube damper rings, I was able to tame a couple of my noisy tubes - but not all of them.
  
 I have also noticed that using Deoxit to clean the pins has helped out, as well - some of my tube's pins were in rough shape and I hadn't even thought to check that until someone on this thread mentioned Deoxit.


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> This is a post I have been waiting a long time to write. As some of you may know, I am a big fan of the C3G driver. It is simply a stunning tube - absolutely transparent, with dynamics and extension that puts anything else I have heard to shame (including the TS RP).
> 
> Unfortunately, I could not get this superb tube to work correctly in my WA5. I tried all sorts of things to fix the issue, but the tonality was consistently off, and I blew a C3G. Then I had a breakthrough - my HeadFi buddy Badas was over at my place this evening for some headphone goodness, and he made the discovery that backing off the Auralic Vega digital volume output to around 80 (from 100) reduced distortion in the WA5 output. This led to my remembering the the Vega has 'hot' output at around 4V, while most consumer equipment is around 2 to 2.5V.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tony, glad to hear that you got the C3g sorted out ( I know that this is really big for your platform.)
  
 Your solution makes sense given that a C3m/ C3g typically has a higher gain than a 6SN7 making it much more sensitive to the input signal.  This is one of the advantages of using a C3m/ C3g single driver stage for the 300b (greater sensitivity/ increased dynamic range.)
  
 I am assuming that you are running balance output from your Vega DAC?  This is good info to know (for down the road) since I am running the Matrix X-Sabre DAC which also has HOT balanced outputs.  I'm guessing that the Vega's single ended output may not have experienced this issue (??)


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> ....
> I am driving a modded HE6, so dropping the Vega output back to 60 does mean that my volume pot moves from 11 o'clock to 2 o'clock on my WA5 using K1K output. The WA5 still has plenty of juice to drive these beastie headphones.
> 
> So if you are a WA5 user - try these drivers - you just might get to love them as I do. Just remember to back off the Vega output (if you are using that DAC), otherwise things might end very badly.
> ...


 
 Tony, I never had problems while running C3g with my WA5, look like you finally got it working properly too.  Congrats! enjoy the sweet sweet sound of C3g driven 300Bs,and yes the K1K port now with C3g now are very much usable, even with HD800, it sounded fantastic.


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Well, I am not sure if they do or do not; Tube Monger, of course, says they do. But I continue using them, as they are well made.
> 
> Using a combination of these silicon-filled socket savers and tube damper rings, I was able to tame a couple of my noisy tubes - but not all of them.
> 
> I have also noticed that using Deoxit to clean the pins has helped out, as well - some of my tube's pins were in rough shape and I hadn't even thought to check that until someone on this thread mentioned Deoxit.



Yeah. Same here. I have dampers and the nice quality of the tube monger savers, decided after putting this much money into a system and tubes I need to get the most out of them. 
Deoxit has helped lots of mine as well.


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> Tony, glad to hear that you got the C3g sorted out ( I know that this is really big for your platform.)
> 
> Your solution makes sense given that a C3m/ C3g typically has a higher gain than a 6SN7 making it much more sensitive to the input signal.  This is one of the advantages of using a C3m/ C3g as a driver for the 300b (greater sensitivity/ increased dynamic range.)
> 
> I am assuming that you are running balance output from your Vega DAC?  This is good info to know (for down the road) since I am running the Matrix X-Sabre DAC which also has HOT balanced outputs.  I'm guessing that the Vega's single ended output may not have experienced this issue (??)


 
  
 There is no XLR input on the WA5 (old version). RCA only.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Tony, I never had problems while running C3g with my WA5, look like you finally got it working properly too.  Congrats! enjoy the sweet sweet sound of C3g driven 300Bs,and yes the K1K port now with C3g now are very much usable, even with HD800, it sounded fantastic.


 
  
 Still have to try that with my modded HD800. I used to get dreadful hum when running the Vega at 100 with the HD800 in the K1K socket. Will try tonight with the Vega at 60. Really hope this works, the HD800 seems respond very well to more power.
  
 HD800 from the HPH output is pretty nice already.
  
 Interesting thing is that winding the Vega back to 80 reduced distortion even when using the TS RPs. I hadn't even noticed this effect - my buddy Badas picked it up during a listening session on my gear yesterday. The Vega really does run hot output.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> There is no XLR input on the WA5 (old version). RCA only.


 
 You can try XLR ->  RCA cable, even with the XLR inputs from the refreshed WA5, the amp is still single ended, basically the same as XLR->RCA cable.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> This is a post I have been waiting a long time to write. As some of you may know, I am a big fan of the C3G driver. It is simply a stunning tube - absolutely transparent, with dynamics and extension that puts anything else I have heard to shame (including the TS RP).
> 
> Unfortunately, I could not get this superb tube to work correctly in my WA5. I tried all sorts of things to fix the issue, but the tonality was consistently off, and I blew a C3G. Then I had a breakthrough - my HeadFi buddy Badas was over at my place this evening for some headphone goodness, and he made the discovery that backing off the Auralic Vega digital volume output to around 80 (from 100) reduced distortion in the WA5 output. This led to my remembering the the Vega has 'hot' output at around 4V, while most consumer equipment is around 2 to 2.5V.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you finally got the C3G's to work in your system Tony. Its been a while. Does the Vega have a digital attenuator for the volume control? It sounds like it does. Does it have any other outputs you can use, maybe there is an option to run the volume strictly in the analog domain? Fririce0003 would know the answers to these as he had one. Have you measured the voltage out of the RCA's? 
  
 How is the Glenn amp going, can't be to far away now?
  
 Looking forward to hearing Dono's impressions of the Tak's + C3G's


----------



## 3083joe

Man the 5998s i got have to be the noisiest tubes Ive ever used!!!
 Shame! can't even listen to them
  
 Guess its time to just go with the 421a if i can find a pair
  
 7236 Tung sold are nice tho!


----------



## IndieGradoFan

3083joe said:


> Man the 5998s i got have to be the noisiest tubes Ive ever used!!!
> Shame! can't even listen to them
> 
> Guess its time to just go with the 421a if i can find a pair
> ...


 

 Sorry to hear that! For me, the TS7236 were noisy -- had to exchange the first pair due to a high pitched whirring sound in one of the tubes. Second pair had a nasty buzz. Third pair was silent. Then I switched to Chatham 2399 and had some noise. Finally, bought a TS5998 and they were silent.


----------



## 3083joe

indiegradofan said:


> Sorry to hear that! For me, the TS7236 were noisy -- had to exchange the first pair due to a high pitched whirring sound in one of the tubes. Second pair had a nasty buzz. Third pair was silent. Then I switched to Chatham 2399 and had some noise. Finally, bought a TS5998 and they were silent.


 

 Yeah I got the 5998s from Vacuumtube.net so I'm, going to try and exchange or return them, but want an set of We421a s if i can find a good pair
 the 7236s will work for now tho


----------



## 3083joe

indiegradofan said:


> No, they do not (see below) -- however, on a WA6 they do unless you get a socket saver for the rectifier, lifting it by about an inch.


 

 Where can i get those Dampers?>
 TIA


----------



## IndieGradoFan

3083joe said:


> Where can i get those Dampers?>
> TIA


 
 Those are from Herbie's -- the Rx-50: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> You can try XLR ->  RCA cable, even with the XLR inputs from the refreshed WA5, the amp is still single ended, basically the same as XLR->RCA cable.


 
  
 I can't see much benefit to doing that - perhaps I am missing the point? - I often do that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have never heard a sonic difference between XLR and RCA, so I don't care too much about it. I prefer XLR connections only because I like the positive locking that they do.


----------



## Khragon

tonynewman said:


> I can't see much benefit to doing that - perhaps I am missing the point? - I often do that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not sure about the Vega DAC, but for Gungnir there's a positive benefit, I got heck of a lot lower noise floor using XLR->RCA->WA5 instead of going from RCA->WA5 directly.  It maybe that Schiit RCA implementation isn't very good on the Gungnir.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Glad you finally got the C3G's to work in your system Tony. Its been a while. Does the Vega have a digital attenuator for the volume control? It sounds like it does. Does it have any other outputs you can use, maybe there is an option to run the volume strictly in the analog domain? Fririce0003 would know the answers to these as he had one. Have you measured the voltage out of the RCA's?
> 
> How is the Glenn amp going, can't be to far away now?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing Dono's impressions of the Tak's + C3G's


 
  
 Vega has RCA and XLR outputs. I am sending the XLR to the 430HA, RCA to the WA5. RCA will be split when I get the Glenn amp to feed both tube amps.
  
 Glenn amp is coming. Build is about to start once the chassis is delivered to Glenn. Bunch of other bits are already in hand (lundahl transformer, dueland coupling caps).
  
 Dono was impressed (as was I) at how well the WA5 with Taks + TS RPs was driving the HE6 / HD800. Pity of it is that it was only after Dono left that I tried the C3Gs with the lower output from the Vega. That lifted the SQ by another 5 to 10% - which is very significant at this level.
  
 Taks are amazing. They do everything amazingly well.
  
 The Vega has a very well thought out digital volume control. I have not noticed and SQ degradation at the 60 to 80 range. No doubt if you go low enough there will be problems, but dialling it back to the point where the WA5 likes it (around 80) and the C3Gs like it (around 60) seems to work out well. I can't argue with the SQ result - definitely a step up from the TS RPs.


----------



## MIKELAP

khragon said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


 

 Been using a pair of C3GS as drivers and a pair 6SN7as power tubes for awhile now  with my Littledot MK3 and Burson Conductor as preamp and it sounds very good


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> Been using a pair of C3GS as drivers and a pair 6SN7as power tubes for awhile now  with my Littledot MK3 and Burson Conductor as preamp and it sounds very good


 
  
 Nice pic! That's a lot of driver for a little amp


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> This is a post I have been waiting a long time to write. As some of you may know, I am a big fan of the C3G driver. It is simply a stunning tube - absolutely transparent, with dynamics and extension that puts anything else I have heard to shame (including the TS RP).
> 
> Unfortunately, I could not get this superb tube to work correctly in my WA5. I tried all sorts of things to fix the issue, but the tonality was consistently off, and I blew a C3G. Then I had a breakthrough - my HeadFi buddy Badas was over at my place this evening for some headphone goodness, and he made the discovery that backing off the Auralic Vega digital volume output to around 80 (from 100) reduced distortion in the WA5 output. This led to my remembering the the Vega has 'hot' output at around 4V, while most consumer equipment is around 2 to 2.5V.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm a little shell shocked from yesterdays session.
  
 Thank you so very, very much Tony.
  
 I haven't had so much fun like that for a while.
  
 Check out this guys. How great is this? I rock on over to Tony's. He sets me up and then leaves his property to let me have time to myself listening to the Taks. He goes to a local coffee shop and reads a book. He gets back 2 hours latter with gourmet pizzas. What. Above and beyond.
  
 I'm going to be brief.
  
 WA5 is a lot higher level than my WA22.
 My LCD3's are sounding like yesterdays tech compared to well driven HD800's and HE-6.
 Taks are soooooo damn smooth. A tube God. I really got the impression of Japanese technology at it's very best.
 Vega > WA5 (with Taks) > HE-6 is the best HP session I have ever had.
  
 A massive thank you to Tony. What a great afternoon / night.


----------



## TonyNewman

My pleasure - fun evening - and you more than earned your keep by figuring out that backing off the Vega volume improved the SQ.
  
 The Vega runs output 4.2V RMS. That is crazy hot. I want to be around 2.5V RMS, so setting the Vega digital volume to 60 is about where I want to be. Will do some more digging this eveing and so how that goes.
  
 Best is yet to come - it is only after you left that I got the C3Gs working properly. So what you experienced is not the WA5 + Taks at its best. Those C3Gs really are killer drivers.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> My pleasure - fun evening - and you more than earned your keep by figuring out that backing off the Vega volume improved the SQ.
> 
> The Vega runs output 4.2V RMS. That is crazy hot. I want to be around 2.5V RMS, so setting the Vega digital volume to 60 is about where I want to be. Will do some more digging this eveing and so how that goes.
> 
> Best is yet to come - it is only after you left that I got the C3Gs working properly. So what you experienced is not the WA5 + Taks at its best. Those C3Gs really are killer drivers.


 

 Your WA5 was running crazy cool as well. I think over blowing the input and running power lower was keeping it cool.
  
 I think you will notice more heat keeping the Vega at 60 and using more power. However it should result in better sound.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I'm a little shell shocked from yesterdays session.
> 
> Thank you so very, very much Tony.
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome


----------



## MIKELAP

I was using a pair of  6SN7 to  6CG7 adapters on a LITTLEDOT MK3 wondering if those adapters would work on the WA2 in place of  6922/6DJ8 DRIVERS


----------



## 3083joe

Wow tube monger ships fast.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Wow tube monger ships fast.


 
 Wow, almost as quick as Amazon Prime!  Let us know what you think on the dampening with your system (i.e. improvement or meh!)
  
 Listened to Satch Plays Fats and Best of Ella and Louie the other night, really enjoyed it!  As Satch would have said, "roast beef for the soul!"  It was the first time that I recall listening to Ella at her young performance age and I was shocked to discover that she sounds (to me anyway) just like present day Madeleine Peyroux (e.g. Careless Love etc.)


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Wow tube monger ships fast.


 
  
 Did your socket savers come with labels/stickers around the base or did you peel them off?
  
 Let us know if you think they make any difference, sound-wise.


----------



## devilboy

The Draug 2 finally arrived today. 
  
 WA2 with:   Tungsol/Chatham 6AS7G
                     Amperex 6DJ8
                     Mullard EZ80
 HD800 with Anaxilus mod


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Did your socket savers come with labels/stickers around the base or did you peel them off?
> 
> Let us know if you think they make any difference, sound-wise.


 
  
 Krutsch, are the Amperex 7308 PQ whites new for you?  I thought you were running a 7dj8 type before.  How do you like the 7308 PQs?


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> The Draug 2 finally arrived today.
> 
> WA2 with:   Tungsol/Chatham 6AS7G
> Amperex 6DJ8
> ...


 
  
 That rig would sound nice. Is the HD800 mod the foam in the inside to tame treble?


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> Krutsch, are the *Amperex 7308 PQ whites new for you*?  I thought you were running a 7dj8 type before.  *How do you like the 7308 PQs?*


 
  
 No, I've had them for a while. My glass collection is in my profile.
  
 I am testing different drivers with the GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base" power tubes. I posted this somewhere else (HD-650 thread?), but I swapped out the Telefunken E288CC (re-branded Siemens) and I was shocked how out of control the bass sounded.
  
 So, I pulled the GEC and replaced with a Tung-Sol 7236, which is an excellent pairing with the Amperex 7308 drivers.
  
 The longer I do this, the more I appreciate: (a) how driver and power tube *combinations* affect the sound and (b) how the first artifact is made more complicated by 'phones in use, as well as to what music I am listening.
  
 I've pretty much maxed out the WA3 tube compatibility chart and I really need to build a matrix describing my preferences with driver/power tube combinations and their sound characteristics.
  
 Hopefully when I upgrade to the WA2, these characteristics will carry forward (in addition to the rectifiers, of course).


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> I've pretty much maxed out the WA3 tube compatibility chart and I really need to build a matrix describing my preferences with driver/power tube combinations and their sound characteristics.
> 
> *Hopefully when I upgrade to the WA2, these characteristics will carry forward (in addition to the rectifiers, of course)*.


 
 They will, but you may find that you'll need to refine your matrix a little as certain characteristics will be more pronounced (in a good way!)


----------



## devilboy

badas said:


> That rig would sound nice. Is the HD800 mod the foam in the inside to tame treble?


 

 Yes. Easy to do and the results were very nice.  Definitely took the edge off the highs.  Did the same to the Scanspeak Revelator tweeters on the tweeter flange of my loudspeakers.


----------



## Badas

devilboy said:


> Yes. Easy to do and the results were very nice.  Definitely took the edge off the highs.  Did the same to the Scanspeak Revelator tweeters on the tweeter flange of my loudspeakers.


 

 Tony has a set of those and I have listened to them a lot.
  
 I really, really like them. Thinking about doing the same thing.
  
 Sounded fantastic on my WA22.


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Did your socket savers come with labels/stickers around the base or did you peel them off?
> 
> Let us know if you think they make any difference, sound-wise.



No labels. 
As for sound. So far they seem to smooth out some harshness or Peersing sound, like when someone drags there finger nails down a chauk board. Making your teeth hurt. I was experiencing that with both wa6 and wa22 but it has been greatly reduced with the savers maybe it microphonics not sure but I will continue to listen and see.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> The Draug 2 finally arrived today.
> 
> WA2 with:   Tungsol/Chatham 6AS7G
> Amperex 6DJ8
> ...



Nice. What is that mod? Might want to do the same to mine


----------



## TonyNewman

The modded HD800 is a mighty headphone when driven from a powerful headamp. It scales into something that is only *just *beaten by my modded HE6 IMHO. For comfort for a long session the HD800 wins everytime.


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> No, I've had them for a while. My glass collection is in my profile.
> 
> I am testing different drivers with the GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base" power tubes. I posted this somewhere else (HD-650 thread?), but I swapped out the Telefunken E288CC (re-branded Siemens) and I was shocked how out of control the bass sounded.
> 
> ...



So much truth in tube combos. 
Just ordered a pair of GEC 6AS7g, hoping they pair well with the Mullard 32s and we422


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> So much truth in tube combos.
> Just ordered a pair of GEC 6AS7g, hoping they pair well with the Mullard 32s and we422


 

 Just curious ... from where did you order the GECs?


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Just curious ... from where did you order the GECs?



From Kef at valvetubes.com


----------



## ru4music

devilboy said:


> Yes. Easy to do and the results were very nice.  Definitely took the edge off the highs.  Did the same to the Scanspeak Revelator tweeters on the tweeter flange of my loudspeakers.


 

 I found that changing to a UP-OCC copper cable (cryo'ed) took the excess sibilance away on the HD800 YMMV.


----------



## devilboy

3083joe said:


> Nice. What is that mod? Might want to do the same to mine


 

 Joe, 
  
 Go to this link and scroll down to the video demonstration.  Just above it, there is a pdf printout link to print the outline of the mod onto paper.  If you can't open this link, google "anaxilus mod innerfidelity".
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod-page-2#EWUxBJhjVh4HH1A7.97
  

  
 Go to a craft store and get foam pads, double sided adhesive sheets and felt sheets and bond them together as shown in the video.  Put the "blueprint" on the back side of the foam pad.
  

  
 Finished product should look like this (Or something like it, LOL).


----------



## Badas

^
  
 It's basically to stop the HP sounding like a hollow can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Really like a speaker system with acoustics in the room.


----------



## kazsud

So do you like it better with the mod?


----------



## devilboy

Yes. Made the highs less bright. Easier for longer listening sessions.


----------



## ru4music

devilboy said:


> Yes. Made the highs less bright. Easier for longer listening sessions.


 

 Did you feel like you lost anything with the mod?  When you say "less bright" do you mean the treble is more recessed, or the edginess of the harmonics from vocals/ instruments etc. is tamed?
  
 It's interesting, because I would describe the signature of the T-1 HP as having a ported box enclosure sound and the HD800 as having a (blended) infinite baffle/ horn sound.  Occasionally, what I find fatiguing from the HD800 can be described as a slight shout-ty (horn artifact)/ sibilance effect to the music presentation.  The nice thing about the mod is it's totally reversible and inexpensive.
  
 I'm just curious if any of the superb detailing of HD800 is lost!


----------



## devilboy

@ru4music, I first listened to my 800 with a Burson Conductor Virtuoso.  Even with that combo, I still decided to keep the 800.  While that combo gave a fast, dynamic sound with tons of punch and weight, listening sessions were brief.  A big turn off.  I did the mod and the highs were "less piercing" and I didn't notice how bad it was until after I did it.  I then went to the WA2 and that, with stock tubes, turned the 800 in the right direction for me.  More warmth and richness, less analytical, hifi sound.  Went to NOS tubes and continued in that direction.  Now, with the Norne Draug 2 (I've only listened for about four hours so far), it's more of the same.  I'm reaching the point now where I think anything else may be too much of a good thing. 
  
 The HD800 is a very picky 'phone which IMO, requires to have "all your ducks in a row" for it to shine.  However, when that happens, it's magic.  Of course there are much better amps than the WA2 which can accentuate the 800's strengths.  It's still a great pairing though.


----------



## jhljhl

devilboy said:


> Yes. Made the highs less bright. Easier for longer listening sessions.


 

 Stefan endorphin cable solved that issue for my ears.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> @ru4music, I first listened to my 800 with a Burson Conductor Virtuoso.  Even with that combo, I still decided to keep the 800.  While that combo gave a fast, dynamic sound with tons of punch and weight, listening sessions were brief.  A big turn off.  I did the mod and the highs were "less piercing" and I didn't notice how bad it was until after I did it.  I then went to the WA2 and that, with stock tubes, turned the 800 in the right direction for me.  More warmth and richness, less analytical, hifi sound.  Went to NOS tubes and continued in that direction.  Now, with the Norne Draug 2 (I've only listened for about four hours so far), it's more of the same.  I'm reaching the point now where I think anything else may be too much of a good thing.
> 
> The HD800 is a very picky 'phone which IMO, requires to have "all your ducks in a row" for it to shine.  However, when that happens, it's magic.  Of course there are much better amps than the WA2 which can accentuate the 800's strengths.  It's still a great pairing though.



Thanks
I want to try the mod myself for sure.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Stefan endorphin cable solved that issue for my ears.



Yeah but 500+


----------



## 3083joe

Straight up must have album.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yeah but 500+


 

 Got a great deal on 'em.  But I'm sure the moon audio cable is good too. Q cable with adapters? or ALO?  Anyone know?


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Straight up must have album.


 
 I listened to Satchmo Plays King Oliver last night and that was very good also!


----------



## TonyNewman

Some more WA5 porn to share - Taks + nekkid C3Gs.
  

  

  
 Anyone that is using C3Gs and wants to remove the steel covers safely and isn't sure how please PM me. It isn't hard - I'm a complete dumbass and I can do it while pissed up on some very nice NZ Sav Blanc, so it can't be difficult 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT - I'm going to go out on a limb here and court some flames. C3Gs are the dog's bollix. My (previously) beloved TS RPs and NUs are rubbish compared to these drivers. There - I said it. WA5 owners - stop paying stupid money for TS RPs and get yourself a set of C3G adapters and discover what the best driver on the planet can do for your amp.
  
 EDIT2 - if you want to know what a TS RP killing system looks like - this is it.
  
 My stock of TS RP 6C8Gs is not small - here's a pic:
  

  
 That is more than 20 NOS March 1945 6C8G TS RPs. I would happily smash every single one of these NOS 1945 tubes to retain a single pair of C3Gs. I'm not kidding.
  
 Hopefully that makes very clear on where I stand on the 6SN7 vs C3G driver issue


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> ...
> 
> Anyone that is using C3Gs and wants to remove the steel covers safely and isn't sure how please PM me. It isn't hard - I'm a complete dumbass and I can do it *while pissed up on some very nice NZ Sav Blanc*, so it can't be difficult
> 
> ...


 
  
 I thought I was the only one who liked to drink wine and listen to music! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  As far as the C3g(s), *I don't believe you!*  Please send me your system to prove it.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> I thought I was the only one who liked to drink wine and listen to music!    As far as the C3g(s), *I don't believe you!*  Please send me your system to prove it.  :wink_face:


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> I thought I was the only one who liked to drink wine and listen to music!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 HA!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can have my C3G driven WA5 (with Taks) when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Honestly, I have been searching for the "_SS technical abilities combined with tube goodness_" nirvana for some time. The WA5 with TA300B + TA274B + C3G drivers delivers exactly that. Not a small investment - I understand that, believe me - but the result ... bugger me with a wire brush ... it is STAGGERING. The TS RP (and all other 6SN7 / 6F8G based drivers) are a joke compared to the C3G. Try them and see for yourself. A far, far superior tube.


----------



## devilboy

3083joe said:


> Straight up must have album.


Ha! I have it too. Great stuff!


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Ha! I have it too. Great stuff!



 
Another great album


----------



## kazsud

devilboy said:


> @ru4music, I first listened to my 800 with a Burson Conductor Virtuoso.  Even with that combo, I still decided to keep the 800.  While that combo gave a fast, dynamic sound with tons of punch and weight, listening sessions were brief.  A big turn off.  I did the mod and the highs were "less piercing" and I didn't notice how bad it was until after I did it.  I then went to the WA2 and that, with stock tubes, turned the 800 in the right direction for me.  More warmth and richness, less analytical, hifi sound.  Went to NOS tubes and continued in that direction.  Now, with the Norne Draug 2 (I've only listened for about four hours so far), it's more of the same.  I'm reaching the point now where I think anything else may be too much of a good thing.
> 
> The HD800 is a very picky 'phone which IMO, requires to have "all your ducks in a row" for it to shine.  However, when that happens, it's magic.  Of course there are much better amps than the WA2 which can accentuate the 800's strengths.  It's still a great pairing though.


 

 90% of my brightness issues went away once I got the ps audio pwd mkii. Sounds pretty nice w/ the Wa2 equipped with gec 6as7g. Although I still think I need to try it just to see if it gets any better!


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> I listened to Satchmo Plays King Oliver last night and that was very good also!


 

 Yes, My dad showed me that album, It is sweet for sure


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Some more WA5 porn to share - Taks + nekkid C3Gs.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 FWIW, I think they look better with the covers on. Either way, really impressive system Tony.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Some more WA5 porn to share - Taks + nekkid C3Gs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would like to hear this Tony, not that I doubt you I think the results you are getting are related to the WA5. Neither Matt or I were happy with the results using C3G's with the 234's. WE both got them working, however they required a lot of extra gain, far more than either of us felt comfortable running.
  
 The sound was nothing to get excited about. Must be a different circuit design.
  
 We were clearly warned by Jack Woo not to do it. I would have to very cynical to believe he would do that for only his financial gain.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I would like to hear this Tony, not that I doubt you I think the results you are getting are related to the WA5. Neither Matt or I were happy with the results using C3G's with the 234's. WE both got them working, however they required a lot of extra gain, far more than either of us felt comfortable running.
> 
> The sound was nothing to get excited about. Must be a different circuit design.
> 
> We were clearly warned by Jack Woo not to do it. I would have to very cynical to believe he would do that for only his financial gain.


 
  
 For whatever reason they didn't feel the love with the WA234 - that's a real shame, as the results could have been astounding. Now that I have sorted the power output from my Vega DAC these tubes are working great in my WA5. Results far surpass the TS RP drivers I was using previously.
  
 Hopefully Badas can drop around this weekend and confirm my findings on my system. To me there is no comparison - the C3G is much the better performer.
  
 The Warranty thing is a real concern for anyone with a new amp, particularly if located in the USA - I get that. My WA5 is about 2 years old and has already been repaired locally, so I could care less. YMMV.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> For whatever reason they didn't feel the love with the WA234 - that's a real shame, as the results could have been astounding. Now that I have sorted the power output from my Vega DAC these tubes are working great in my WA5. Results far surpass the TS RP drivers I was using previously.
> 
> Hopefully Badas can drop around this weekend and confirm my findings on my system. To me there is no comparison - the C3G is much the better performer.
> 
> The Warranty thing is a real concern for anyone with a new amp, particularly if located in the USA - I get that. My WA5 is about 2 years old and has already been repaired locally, so I could care less. YMMV.


 
  
 I will be there Saturday afternoon. Damn it sounded fantastic before. Must be incredible now.
  
 Running Lorenz C3G's right?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I will be there Saturday afternoon. Damn it sounded fantastic before. Must be incredible now.
> 
> Running Lorenz C3G's right?


 
  
 Or the Siemens. Once stripped of the casing I can see that the internals are identical for the tubes I have - so it doesn't really matter which, as long as they have some hours on them.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Or the Siemens. Once stripped of the casing I can see that the internals are identical for the tubes I have - so it doesn't really matter which, as long as they have some hours on them.


 

 Interesting.
  
 So some re-branding is going on.


----------



## 2359glenn

isquirrel said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Some more WA5 porn to share - Taks + nekkid C3Gs.
> ...


 

 They are 1 stage instead of 2 so there will be less gain just turn up the volume more.
 What is turning up the volume more going to do.


----------



## 3083joe

Ok so the we422 sounds great on the wa22. Lots of air! Glenn's adapter is nice to. Silent.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Ok so the we422 sounds great on the wa22. Lots of air! Glenn's adapter is nice to. Silent.


 
  
  
 I agree.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

3083joe said:


> Ok so the *we422 *sounds great on the wa22. Lots of air! Glenn's adapter is nice to. Silent.


 
 Kinda expensive...


----------



## abvolt

I have to agree that tube is pricey but I'd sure like to have one someday..


----------



## TonyNewman

Posted this in a PM reply. Thought it might be helpful for others. I have removed the covers from 4 C3Gs so far with no damage, so it seems to work.
  
 You will need a fine metal file - too coarse a file is going to remove more metal than you want to.
  
 The goal is bevel the edge at 45 degrees with the file. You want to remove the crimped contact between the casing and the base plate.
  

  
 As you file away you will feel and hear the point where you have removed enough metal on the casing. Work your way around the edge, being careful of the pins.
  
 You might notice a thin thread of metal coming lose as you go - pull it out as it comes lose (Siemens tubes - not sure this is present with others). When this thread is completely removed from the casing you are done with the filing.
  
 Gently work the base and casing away from each other - first rotate a little, then lift. I use an adapter plug to hold the base.
  
 If you have done it right you get this:
  

  
 Remember to mark the tube in such a way that you know how to insert it later on. I prefer the tube completely nekkid. YMMV.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Badas

^

I imagine that removing the cover would also help with heat as well.


----------



## TonyNewman

I would think so. These babies run damn hot. Some air circulation around the glass would have to help. I think they look nice nekkid, but others prefer them clothed. To each their own


----------



## daverich4

3083joe said:


> Ok so the we422 sounds great on the wa22. Lots of air! Glenn's adapter is nice to. Silent.







sko0bydoo said:


> Kinda expensive...




But if you can afford it they really make the WA22 sing. Glenn's adapter removed a low level hum that I originally had with the 422a and I haven't used anything else since.


----------



## 3083joe

daverich4 said:


> But if you can afford it they really make the WA22 sing. Glenn's adapter removed a low level hum that I originally had with the 422a and I haven't used anything else since.



Agreed. Really makes a difference both the 422 and adapter


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> I would think so. These babies run damn hot. Some air circulation around the glass would have to help. I think they look nice nekkid, but others prefer them clothed. To each their own


 

 Has removing the can changed the sound?
 It will lower the internal capacitance.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> Has removing the can changed the sound?
> It will lower the internal capacitance.


 
 Glenn, interesting...I'm curious about the science behind this.  I always have thought the metal shell was just for thermal consideration.


----------



## 3083joe

Anyone interested in a we422a there's one on eslay for cheap ending in a few hrs. Might be worth a watch. 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=252063980115&globalID=EBAY-US


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Anyone interested in a we422a there's one on eslay for cheap ending in a few hrs. Might be worth a watch.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=252063980115&globalID=EBAY-US


 
  
 I can't believe that on the same page, I see WE 300Bs going for $15,000 US a pair. Crazy...


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Has removing the can changed the sound?
> It will lower the internal capacitance.


 
  
 Not that I can hear. In fact, if I had to guess it would be that the tube sounds better this morning after running nekkid overnight, but that is probably a burn in effect.
  
 A thin aluminum shell around the tube would change the internal capacitance? I would be very surprised if the effect was significant.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Has removing the can changed the sound?
> ...


 

 It is a shield to stop stray interference noise pickup and hum.
 The tube probably runs cooler with the shield off.
 In the adapter there was no ground to the shield so it really wasn't doing anything.


----------



## TonyNewman

These tubes were intended for use in telephone exchanges and similar, with lots of current and electronic gizmos buzzing around them? I'm guessing a lot less happening sitting on top of my WA5.
  
 Anyway, I can't detect any sonic difference with the cover on or off. Given the hassle and risk in removing them (I could easily see myself wrecking a tube or two) it probably makes sense to keep them on - but I like the look of this tube nekkid.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> It is a shield to stop stray interference noise pickup and hum.
> The tube probably runs cooler with the shield off.
> In the adapter there was no ground to the shield so it really wasn't doing anything.


 

 Glenn, in your adapter are running the C3g in a pentode config?


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > It is a shield to stop stray interference noise pickup and hum.
> ...


 

 No it is hooked up as a triode.


----------



## 3083joe

They have arrived! ☺️


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> They have arrived! ☺️


 
  
 Wow! Those are in nice shape and with boxes that look brand new. Well played.


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> They have arrived! ☺️





>


 
 Sweet..


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> They have arrived! ☺️




Where did you get those suckers from? I would pay a couple hundred quid each for those but can't find a seller. The ones on eSlay are unmatched, crap and expensive.

Only two more hours to go and I can listen to Tony's WA5 with C3G drivers installed. I'm getting nervously excited.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Where did you get those suckers from? I would pay a couple hundred quid each for those but can't find a seller. The ones on eSlay are unmatched, crap and expensive.
> 
> Only two more hours to go and I can listen to Tony's WA5 with C3G drivers installed. I'm getting nervously excited.



Got them from valvetubes.com Kef is the man. He has a few more sets but they are not cheap. Little over 500 for matched and made it to my do from UK in 3 days!!!

Also I would love to hear that wa5.


----------



## TonyNewman

Tonality with the C3Gs is still slightly off - that's an issue with my WA5 not feeling the love with these tubes. In every other way, they kill the TS RPs.
  
 Best solution might be a 300B amp built around the C3G driver.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

tonynewman said:


> Best solution might be a 300B amp built around the C3G driver.


 
  
 Is your Glenn's amp a c3g/300B combo?


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Got them from valvetubes.com Kef is the man. He has a few more sets but they are not cheap. Little over 500 for matched and made it to my do from UK in 3 days!!!
> 
> Also I would love to hear that wa5.





Damn, expensive. Think I will do it tho. Maybe flick it into next months purchase. 



tonynewman said:


> Tonality with the C3Gs is still slightly off - that's an issue with my WA5 not feeling the love with these tubes. In every other way, they kill the TS RPs.
> 
> Best solution might be a 300B amp built around the C3G driver.




I can't wait.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

For a WE422A fetish....
  
 http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tubes-western-electric-422a-5u4-gb-mint-quad-in-original-boxes-2015-08-28-accessories-80905-colorado-springs-co--2


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Had something strange happen today... I took a Brimar 5G4ZY out of my WA6 and put it in my WA22, replacing a Psvane 274B 1:1 replica. As a result, I was running the Brimar with TSRP VT-99 and TS5998. It sounded great for 10 minutes or so but then I started to notice some static in the right channel. I turned off the music and the static increased in volume pretty quickly, along with some pops. I tapped the power tube and the static got louder. After another tap, I got a lout pop. At this point, I shut off the amp.
  
 I swapped tube channels and the static followed the one power tube. I then removed the Brimar and put back the Psvane and experienced the same problem with the one power tube. I replaced the power tube with a spare 5998 and the static was gone. Eventually, I put the original 5998 back and the static was back. I gave the problematic 5998 a few flicks with my finger and after 1 more loud pop, it went back to normal behavior, and I've experienced no problems with it since.
  
 Think this 5998 is about to go? It only has about 800-1000 hours on it. Think the fact that this otherwise perfect behaving tube started acting up immediately after switching to the Brimar was a coincidence?


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> Is your Glenn's amp a c3g/300B combo?


 
  
 Oh yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 PY500 rectifiers also. Similar to pic below, with some small differences.


----------



## 2359glenn

I love off the wall tubes that nobody uses they can be gotten for cheap.


----------



## abvolt

indiegradofan said:


>


 
 thats too bad had that same issue once..


----------



## TonyNewman

Just had a listening session with my HeadFi buddy Badas using the WA5 with C3G drivers and my re-modded HE6 (BluTak mod + new damping around the earpads rather than fuzzor).
  
 Conclusion - this setup is absolutely killer. Easily beats my previous best setup using TS RP drivers with the Taks by at least 10% (probably more).
  
 The tonality issue didn't hit Badas at all - I'm really thinking this was a problem in my head only.
  
 Highlights are the improved bass, better detail across the spectrum, and treble that is always in control.
  
 Some C3G WA5 porn.


----------



## Badas

I'm going to go into more detail at a later time. However for now I can concur with Tony. The C3G drive tubes absolutely kill a 6SN7 driver. Incredible. I would say 15-20% better. Across all sound qualities.

Obviously a far superior tube.


----------



## bmichels

wooaudio said:


> (new WA-5 output impedance ): Hi-Z is 120 ohms and Lo-Z is 8 ohms, same on the classic WA5.


 
  
 Aren't those value too high... "in theory" ?  
  
 Indeed, I understood that output impedance should be 1/8 max of the Headphone impedance !  so with a 30 ohm headphone, it should not be above 3 or 4 ohms...in theory.
  
 This is why some headphone amps try to get close to 1 ohm impedence 
  
 I am wrong


----------



## 2359glenn

bmichels said:


> wooaudio said:
> 
> 
> > (new WA-5 output impedance ): Hi-Z is 120 ohms and Lo-Z is 8 ohms, same on the classic WA5.
> ...


 

 It is SS amps that are down to one ohm. In a amp with output transformer should closely match the load (speaker/headphone)


----------



## Fririce0003

2359glenn said:


> No it is hooked up as a triode.


 
  
  
 Hi Glenn,
  
   Please excuse my ignorance, my circuity knowledge is somewhat limited. But with the 6SN7's being dual triodes, therefore having two separate anodes, cathodes, grids and heater circuits, therefore two separate gain stages. Wouldn't using the C3G mean only making use of a single gain stage per channel and also having to inter connect the two triode circuits of the amplifier with the adapter to use the C3G. My main cause for concern is that, wouldn't interconnecting the two circuits change the overall effective capacitance, resistance and discharge rates of the existing circuitry. Which could have a roll on effect in terms of the soft start circuit in the 234's and also vary the current and voltages being sent through to the Power tube circuit? I was just wondering as Jack strongly recommended against using the C3G in our amps and I was just wondering why that was.
  
   Also if you don't mind how have you made use of the three separate grids in the C3G pentode, as far as I know wouldn't using it as a triode mean either only using one grid and leaving the screen and control disconnected? Either that or connecting all the grids together and using them all, or is there another more ideal way?
  
   Just wondering how it would work,  always like knowing about the more technical side of things if possible, as I have tried the 234 albeit briefly and the volume did have to be turned up a significant amount more. Which on its own was no concern, but the reason behind needing to did nag on my mind.
  
 Cheers
 -Matt


----------



## 2359glenn

The screen grid (g2) is hooked to the plate through a resistor making it a triode. The suppressor grid (g3) is tied to the cathode as it should be.
 In the amp the grid of the 6SN7 section #1 is hooked to the grid of the C3g through a resistor. And the plate of the C3g is hooked to the plate
 of the 6SN7 section 2 that is the output of the 6SN7. The plate resistor for the 6SN7 section #2 is proper for the C3g.
  
 Yes this is 1 stage not 2 hence the less gain most DACS have more then enough signal so turning up  the volume a little is fine
  
 I don't see how this would affect anything in the power supply and it's start up circuit. The 6SN7 circuit is separated from the power supply
 buy a R-C filter circuit that further filters the DC voltage to the 6SN7. It is this way in all amps so they don't have hum from the power supply.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> They have arrived! ☺️


 
 Cupped base version as well, very nice!


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> No it is hooked up as a triode.


 

 Thanks!  Just wanted to know what to base everyone's feedback on.
  
 FWIW, I have read/ researched that in a C3m/ 300B scenario some people prefer a pentode config ( higher sensitivity) for the sound since these tubes give excellent triode like curves in this arrangement as well (YMMV.)


----------



## 2359glenn

ru4music said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > No it is hooked up as a triode.
> ...


 

 Yes but the amp is wired for triodes and the only choice is triode wired. And the more gain of being wired as a pentode is not needed with todays high output DACS.
 More gain will just pickup more noise best to have just enough gain you need to get to full power.


----------



## Badas

Okay. My thoughts on the C3g tubes.

Firstly. Tony's rig. The most important part is the beer to the left.



A close up on the C3gs.



The Tak rectifier and power tubes combined with the C3g drivers are the best tube combo I have ever heard. Just the weekend before I listened to this exact rig with the Tung-Sol round plates installed. A lot of what I'm going to explain will be compared to those.

I fully expected to walk through the door and hear the same sound but with cleaner higher pitched treble. I didn't hear that. What I got was more of everything compared to the TS's. More high end treble, to my surprise more mid-range detail and finally more bass impact. More of everything. Soundstage had changed. More channel separation with more instrument separation. A thought I was having was it had become a tube version of the 430HA solid state amp. All that detail with tube goodness. Simply wonderful.

How much better than the TS's were they. A lot. If I was going to guess I would say 15-20% and it leans closer to 20%. It kills all 6SN7 drivers. Tony was not exgerating. The C3g's are on a whole different level.

I must point out all my listening was on the modded HE-6. The same HP I used the weekend before.


----------



## baax

Any Woo WA7 owners out there- how many hours approximately did you get with your tubes?


----------



## wyan

So what is the amplification factor of C3g(s) in triode mode? Thanks.


----------



## 2359glenn

about 40


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> about 40



Is it possible to use these on wa22 with an adapter? Or no?


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Yes but the amp is wired for triodes and the only choice is triode wired. And the more gain of being wired as a pentode is not needed with todays high output DACS.
> More gain will just pickup more noise best to have just enough gain you need to get to full power.


 
 Yes but the amp is wired for triodes and the only choice is triode wired.
  
*Well, that would end that discussion on the adapters. lol* 
  
 And the more gain of being wired as a pentode is not needed with todays high output DACS.
 More gain will just pickup more noise best to have just enough gain you need to get to full power.
  
*Valid points and very solid design practice.  However, I (myself) wouldn't totally rule it out in some applications.  I guess the main objective is to get full voltage swing in the linear region while minimizing the noise floor.*


----------



## TonyNewman

A few comments on my C3G journey that might be helpful for anyone else contemplating doing this:
  
 1) The SQ improvement between listening sessions also had something to do with the improvements in my modded HE6. I did the blutak mod and the latest version of the damping under the vegan pads. These improved the HE6 SQ noticeably, but perhaps at the 5% mark. The great majority of the SQ improvements very much came from the driver change to the C3G from the TS RP.
  
 2) The C3G is an incredibly transparent tube. Fantastic extension, detail and dynamics. The downside is that limitations in the other components in your system are highlighted. Some of my source recordings are lacking a little in quality - this becomes very obvious in the first few seconds of the playback. Fortunately my rectifier + power tubes are superb (TA274B + TA300B). These tubes are good enough to take advantage of what the C3G can do. Lesser tubes might struggle to deliver similar levels of benefit.
  
 3) It has been interesting how my favorite headphones (modded HE6 / modded HD800) have scaled and responded to each improvement in my system over the past 2 years. There are amazing cans. The re-modded HE6, in particular, is a stunning headphone.
  
 4) I have said this before, but want to put it out there again. Woo Audio do not endorse use of the C3G drivers with their amps. This might have an impact on warranty support if you use them and have a subsequent problem with your amp. So please be aware.
  
 5) The SQ jump with the C3Gs isn't small - it is a leap - provided the rest of your system is up to the task (source music / DAC / Power + Rectifier tubes). My weak link now is my Auralic Vega (which is an odd thing to say as this is a very, very good DAC). Where to go from the Vega? For now, nowhere. A significantly better DAC than the Vega is simply beyond my means for now. Maybe in a year or two.


----------



## 2359glenn

3083joe said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > about 40
> ...


 

 No the WA22 is a push pull amp and needs both triodes one to amplify the positive and one to amplify the negative signal


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> No the WA22 is a push pull amp and needs both triodes one to amplify the positive and one to amplify the negative signal


 

 Thanks Glenn,
 I assumed not.


----------



## 3083joe

Quick Question
 Whats the difference in sound with the we422a and 274a?
 Big difference in price


----------



## 3083joe

Just a FYI
Another great album. 

So smooth.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Thanks Glenn,
> I assumed not.


 

 Yeah man. I would have tried it by now if it was possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That album looks great.
  
*Edit: Ordered it. *


----------



## 2359glenn

3083joe said:


> Quick Question
> Whats the difference in sound with the we422a and 274a?
> Big difference in price


 

 Technically the WE422 is a much better tube with a lower voltage drop.
 Sound wise never tried a true WE274A figured it was a expensive waist of time
  A 422 sounded great in my OTL better then any other 5 Volt rectifier.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Technically the WE422 is a much better tube with a lower voltage drop.
> Sound wise never tried a true WE274A figured it was a expensive waist of time
> A 422 sounded great in my OTL better then any other 5 Volt rectifier.


 
  
 The one person I know that has the WE422A and WE274B rates the WE274B slightly above the WE422A for SQ (and the TA274B slightly above both of them).
  
 At this level all 3 tubes are "out there" - I think any of the 3 will make an audio nut happy.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> The one person I know that has the WE422A and WE274B rates the WE274B slightly above the WE422A for SQ (and the TA274B slightly above both of them).
> 
> At this level all 3 tubes are "out there" - I think any of the 3 will make an audio nut happy.



Yeah. Don't think the 1000 price tag on the we274 is worth the improvement. Over double if I'm going to spend that much might as well go with the ta274b


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Yeah. Don't think the 1000 price tag on the we274 is worth the improvement. Over double if I'm going to spend that much might as well go with the ta274b


 
  
 That was my thinking as well.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah. Don't think the 1000 price tag on the we274 is worth the improvement. Over double if I'm going to spend that much might as well go with the ta274b
> ...


 

 I think WEs are mostly about bragging rights.
 Even though I don't know if the WE300B can be beat.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> I think WEs are mostly about bragging rights.
> Even though I don't know if the WE300B can be beat.


 
  
 Same source that I mentioned above has the vintage WE300B, re-issue WE300B, and TA300B.
  
 TA300B wins. Similar lovely mids as the WEs, combined with better extension up and down.
  
 I can certainly attest that the TA274B + TA300B + C3G tube setup delivers amazing bass and treble SQ. Very, very close to what my SS 430HA can do.


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> I think WEs are mostly about bragging rights.
> Even though I don't know if the WE300B can be beat.



Yeah. Probably 
Love to see someone selling some TA274b singles


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Yeah. Probably
> Love to see someone selling some TA274b singles


 
  
 Woo Audio might do that. Price Japan certainly will. Email them and they will provide a quote - I found them great to deal with. The TA274B is packaged as singles (unlike the TA300B).


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Woo Audio might do that. Price Japan certainly will. Email them and they will provide a quote - I found them great to deal with. The TA274B is packaged as singles (unlike the TA300B).



Awesome I will email them. If I can find their email. 

EMAIL - Sent!


----------



## bpcans

tonynewman said:


> Woo Audio might do that. Price Japan certainly will. Email them and they will provide a quote - I found them great to deal with. The TA274B is packaged as singles (unlike the TA300B).


Yeah, I bet for a cool thousand bucks.


----------



## TonyNewman

bpcans said:


> Yeah, I bet for a cool thousand bucks.


 
  
 I don't know what the Woo pricing is for the TA247B.
  
 From Price Japan, the numbers are:
 TA300B (pair) - $1,310 USD,
 TA274B (single) - 793 USD.
  

  
  
 The TA274B is now listed separately and individually. That's good.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> I think WEs are mostly about bragging rights.
> Even though I don't know if the WE300B can be beat.




Yeah from my phone experience you pay more than double for a 15% improvement or so ymmv.


----------



## 3083joe

They emailed me back 
$824 with insurance and shipping through Fedex
$794 with insurance and shipping through EMS
This is for a single TA-274B


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Hi Tony,
  
 What's the DC current spec on the TA-274B, over 200mA?  Current production 274B models seem to be low on current draw.  I'm running a single rectifier, a bit concern of overloading it.  If the TA274B can deliver 250 ma, I'll try it out.  Thanks.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

3083joe said:


> They emailed me back
> $824 with insurance and shipping through Fedex
> $794 with insurance and shipping through EMS
> This is for a single TA-274B


 
  
 I've tried the EMS.  Got to L.A. in less than a week.


----------



## 3083joe

sko0bydoo said:


> I've tried the EMS.  Got to L.A. in less than a week.



Yeah. Tempted to do it.


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> What's the DC current spec on the TA-274B, over 200mA?  Current production 274B models seem to be low on current draw.  I'm running a single rectifier, a bit concern of overloading it.  If the TA274B can deliver 250 ma, I'll try it out.  Thanks.


 
  
 I have no freaken idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have a datasheet for the TA300Bs, not sure about the TA274Bs.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> sko0bydoo said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Tony,
> ...


 

 Forget about it and get a WE422A less money and a more powerful tube can easily handle 250ma


----------



## 3083joe

Tonight's listening session.
 excellent.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> Forget about it and get a WE422A less money and a more powerful tube can easily handle 250ma


 
  
 TA274B has a slightly better SQ (according to at least one person that has heard both) and being a new production tube has a warranty and known provenance (i.e. you _*know *_it is unused with zero hours on it). To each their own.


----------



## isquirrel

I have two Takatsuki 274B's up for sale, happy to split them as singles, only done 450 hours always been handled with love


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> TA274B has a slightly better SQ (according to at least one person that has heard both) and being a new production tube has a warranty and known provenance (i.e. you _*know *_it is unused with zero hours on it). To each their own.


 

 That would be me, I have the grey plated WE 274B's, midrange is glorious but the upper and lower frequencies are not in the same league as the Takatsuki. I suspect the reason that everyone bangs on about them is that everything is focused in on the midrange so your attention is drawn more to that than any other part of the frequency range. The Takatsuki's are more revealing and truthful while still maintaining a lovely mid range but its not at the expense of the rest of the frequencies. 
  
 The other golden rectifier which doesn't get much if any airtime here is the Mullard Metal Base GZ34. I just love these, not a sweet tube but defiantly has a lovely euphonic sound but the best tube for drive and attack. Can't beat it for speed and dance, EDM, electronic music and also works well with vocals add this inner light to them which is very appealing.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I have two Takatsuki 274B's up for sale, happy to split them as singles, only done 450 hours always been handled with love


 
  
 Have you lost the loving feeling on the Takatsukis? Say it isn't so....


----------



## isquirrel

Nope, just seems to me that I am in a position to help out for those that need singles and so I am


----------



## isquirrel

Finally finished the stand and have the system where I invisged it 5 months ago


----------



## TonyNewman

Awesome rig. Ultra HeadFi.


----------



## Badas

^
  

























  
 Wow. Look at that headphone stand, look at that WA234, Look at........ Oh! I give up.
  
 Super cool Simon.


----------



## Badas

A few weeks ago we were talking about the potential to make custom Woo amps and modifications members have made.

Well over the last little while I've been working on custom tubes. I have the ability to design and custom print my tube bases. 

Here is what I've come up with. The Brimar logo is copied from an existing Brimar design, the Tung-Sol logo is entirely my design (I wanted something very different) and the GE was designed to have a red base instead of black so it would stand out from the black Woo chassis, I also wanted it to look like a cigar wrap, it also complements my TT nicely. 


Not the best pic. Sorry iPad photo.

I like the look. What do you guys think?


----------



## Exidrion

I am very interested in trying a system like squirrels, just to see how good a system like that actually sounds and how much diminishing returns applies.

Very very curious.

Badas, my immediate thought was Nazi Germany LOL. No insult intended.


----------



## Badas

exidrion said:


> I am very interested in trying a system like squirrels, just to see how good a system like that actually sounds and how much diminishing returns applies.
> 
> Very very curious.
> 
> Badas, my immediate thought was Nazi Germany LOL. No insult intended.




I don't want to try Simons rig. I want it. 

Dude. All that effort and I get called a Nazi.  I laughed my head off. Nice one.


----------



## devilboy

isquirrel said:


> Finally finished the stand and have the system where I invisged it 5 months ago


 

 Those 234 amps belong on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.


----------



## isquirrel

Thanks guys, the idea was to push the performance envelope, however my plan is everything there except for the 234's + HP's can easily be used in a top flight 2 channel system. However I have had my share of big systems and there are so many compromises, mainly room issues, neighbours, arguments with my partner over "proper listening levels" and having the remote control confiscated  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I sem to notice very small changes now because mainly the noise floor is so low and the dynamic contrast is very high. Amazing what has happened in the Headphone space in just a year, imagine what its going to be like in 2-3 years time. I know a lot of serious 2 channel guys who are seriously thinking of building a Head-Fi system instead of upgrading their main rig. One thing is clear if you are going to do 2 channel really well you need to have a dedicated listening room and that just isn't possible where we live. I really don't feel as though I am missing out on a 2 channel speaker system. They are becoming increasingly limited in their appeal as people move into Apartment living.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I just ordered a set of Tung-Sol VT-99 black getters flat plates. I'm interested to see how these compare to the BGRP in the WA22. Some previous posters said they are about on par with RCAs.


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> I just ordered a set of Tung-Sol VT-99 black getters flat plates. I'm interested to see how these compare to the BGRP in the WA22. Some previous posters said they are about on par with RCAs.




I have a set. They are better than the RCA's. More extended, no roll off.. My third favorite driver for the WA22 just behind NU and TSRP.


----------



## masterfuu

Anyone selling their wa2 unit let me know. Been looking at classified without much luck lately. Preferably with upgraded tubes.


----------



## abvolt

indiegradofan said:


> I just ordered a set of Tung-Sol VT-99 black getters flat plates. I'm interested to see how these compare to the BGRP in the WA22. Some previous posters said they are about on par with RCAs.


 
 I also have two sets of the flat plates their very nice but I do like the round a little better..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> I also have two sets of the flat plates their very nice but I do like the round a little better..



I only have the rounds. But as for drivers. It's the best for a reasonable price. Being ecc32 are 500+


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I only have the rounds. But as for drivers. It's the best for a reasonable price. Being ecc32 are 500+


 

 How would you compare TS RP to ECC32 (I presume are the Mullard)?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> How would you compare TS RP to ECC32 (I presume are the Mullard)?


 

 Yes Mullard
 More air and detail but not sure that its justifies the 300 + more for a pair but maybe as they burn in, I don't have even 50 hr on them yet. but the WE422 with the ecc32 and GEC 6as7 might be the perfect combo. 
 The TS are very detailed and warm but I feel the Ecc32s are around 20% more of the same goodness. 
 Similar in sound


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yes Mullard
> More air and detail but not sure that its justifies the 300 + more for a pair but maybe as they burn in, I don't have even 50 hr on them yet. but the WE422 with the ecc32 and GEC 6as7 might be the perfect combo.
> The TS are very detailed and warm but I feel the Ecc32s are around 20% more of the same goodness.
> Similar in sound


 
 Ever try an ECC33?  Wondering about the difference between the ecc32 and ecc33 mullards.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Ever try an ECC33?  Wondering about the difference between the ecc32 and ecc33 mullards.



I have not but been looking at a set. So if I do I'll let you know.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> I have not but been looking at a set. So if I do I'll let you know.


 

 Joe, you have been prolific with your tube collecting lately.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Joe, you have been prolific with your tube collecting lately.  :tongue_smile: :atsmile:



Yes. My wife may kill me soon!


----------



## 3083joe

Awesome combo
Hodges and Hines and the wa22
☺️


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Yes. My wife may kill me soon!


 

 LOL!


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Awesome combo
> Hodges and Hines and the wa22
> ☺️


 

 I think it may be easier if I just give you my Amazon account info now and have you order the titles as you post them!


----------



## 3083joe

So woo audio wrote me back on the ta274b 
Their price $965 plus 10 shipping in U.S. 
And they said prices would be going up in 2 weeks per manufacturer


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> I think it may be easier if I just give you my Amazon account info now and have you order the titles as you post them! :atsmile:


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> So woo audio wrote me back on the ta274b
> Their price $965 plus 10 shipping in U.S.
> And they said prices would be going up in 2 weeks per manufacturer


 

 oy vey.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 They have warranty through Woo Audio?


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> oy vey.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ... and did they mention how much they are going up?


----------



## reeltime

3083joe said:


> So woo audio wrote me back on the ta274b
> Their price $965 plus 10 shipping in U.S.
> And they said prices would be going up in 2 weeks per manufacturer


 

 The sad part is: That's PER TUBE.  Price Japan is the way to go.  $400 dollars cheaper.


----------



## 3083joe

reeltime said:


> The sad part is: That's PER TUBE.  Price Japan is the way to go.  $400 dollars cheaper.



Price Japan is only $130 cheaper they wanted $824 per tube.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> oy vey.
> 
> 
> They have warranty through Woo Audio?



Yes warranty and no mention as how much increase in price.


----------



## SonicTrance

jhljhl said:


> Ever try an ECC33?  Wondering about the difference between the ecc32 and ecc33 mullards.


 
 I did a little comparison of ECC35/33/32's here if you're interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/1995#post_11870779


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > Joe, you have been prolific with your tube collecting lately.
> ...


 

 You know the old saying  ¨.WHEN I DIE I HOPE MY WIFE DOESNT SELL MY TUBES AT THE PRICE I TOLD HER I PAID¨


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> You know the old saying  ¨.WHEN I DIE I HOPE MY WIFE DOESNT SELL MY TUBES AT THE PRICE I TOLD HER I PAID¨




Isn't that the truth.


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > You know the old saying  ¨.WHEN I DIE I HOPE MY WIFE DOESNT SELL MY TUBES AT THE PRICE I TOLD HER I PAID¨
> ...


 

 Actually its not really the truth  not for me anyways but i found that one funny when i heard it the first time The way im organized all my tube are filed with  pictures ,details, date i bought them and price so she will know at least what i paid for them if and i say if i ever die lol.


----------



## jhljhl

sonictrance said:


> I did a little comparison of ECC35/33/32's here if you're interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice, thanks. I'm really enjoying my WA22 with GEC 6sa7g/tsrp 6f8g/metal gz34 with my LCD3f right now.  The warm tsrp is balanced by the holographic gz34. Mullard ecc32 is my next priority I think.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Nice, thanks. I'm really enjoying my WA22 with GEC 6sa7g/tsrp 6f8g/metal gz34 with my LCD3f right now.  The warm tsrp is balanced by the holographic gz34. Mullard ecc32 is my next priority I think.



 ECC32's are well worth it. I'd like to get a metal base GZ 34


----------



## 3083joe

3083joe said:


> ECC32's are well worth it. I'd like to get a metal base GZ 34



I recommend that valvetubes.com their quality is top notch. Talk to Kef. Got my GEC 6AS7s in three days from the UK to the US


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Actually its not really the truth  not for me anyways but i found that one funny when i heard it the first time The way im organized all my tube are filed with  pictures ,details, date i bought them and price so she will know at least what i paid for them if and i say *if i ever die lol.*


 

 Let's just hope that's with your boots off and your headphones on!


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> I recommend that valvetubes.com their quality is top notch. Talk to Kef. Got my GEC 6AS7s in three days from the UK to the US


 

 Yes, those GECs from your posted pictures looked stellar.  Were they NOS and matched date codes?


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Yes, those GECs from your posted pictures looked stellar.  Were they NOS and matched date codes?


 

 YEs they were and throughly tested 
 little pricey but i think it was worth it


----------



## devilboy

Joe, are you still considering the Anaxilus mod for your 800s?


----------



## MIKELAP

Sophia Princess shining bright tonight maybe to bright first picture in WA22 very bright tube glow hearing a slight buzz second picture in WA6 dead silent and alot less bright weird.  Any taughts  !


----------



## Stereolab42

Dat photo!


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Dat photo!


 
  
 What he said. Really great pic.


----------



## ru4music

devilboy said:


> Joe, are you still considering the Anaxilus mod for your 800s?


 
  
 Goooooooood question!
  
 FWIW,  I am considering the mod as well, but I am anxiously awaiting some Russian 6N23P  '75 Reflekor Silver shields SWGP tubes for my WA2.  I don't want to add too many variables.


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Joe, are you still considering the Anaxilus mod for your 800s?



Yes I am. But have to get everything needed and the time. Which is hard with 4 kids under 8. 
Why?


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Sophia Princess shining bright tonight maybe to bright first picture in WA22 very bright tube glow hearing a slight buzz second picture in WA6 dead silent and alot less bright weird.  Any taughts  !


 

 Mike, I'm starting to see a pattern with your WA22 and hum/ buzz.  I seem to recall you had a similar issue with a Russian driver tube recently from another post.  I would keep a log with all the details (if you are not already) and post the data.  I'll bet that it can be explained/ resolved.


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> devilboy said:
> 
> 
> > Joe, are you still considering the Anaxilus mod for your 800s?
> ...


 

 i feel for you my friend when kids were growing up it was a blur its like i woke up 15 years later and i only had 2 lol


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Yes I am. But have to get everything needed and the time. *Which is hard with 4 kids under 8.
> Why?*


 
 And I'm guessing your wife, at this point, would maybe want to change that to: "'*Which is hard with 4 kids and 1 adult under 8." *






 
  
 Keep your head low and walk softly!


----------



## MIKELAP

ru4music said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Sophia Princess shining bright tonight maybe to bright first picture in WA22 very bright tube glow hearing a slight buzz second picture in WA6 dead silent and alot less bright weird.  Any taughts  !
> ...


 

 They were actually russian power tubes noisy in the WA22 and silent in the wa2 the SP that was on has over 500 hours on it ill try another SP that has 30 hours on it and see if its the same .Well just tried it and the new tube sounds fine might be that the 500 hours+tube is on its last leg .  This is a picture of the new SP


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> They were actually russian power tubes noisy in the WA22 and silent in the wa2 the SP that was on has over 500 hours on it ill try another SP that has 30 hours on it and see if its the same .Well just tried it and the new tube sounds fine might be that the 500 hours+tube is on its last leg .  This is a picture of the new SP



500 hrs seems low.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> And I'm guessing your wife, at this point, would maybe want to change that to: "'*Which is hard with 4 kids and 1 adult under 8."*
> 
> Keep your head low and walk softly! :wink_face:


----------



## MIKELAP

Well looks like the problem was not with the rectifier but with the drivers i have on (6c8g with adapters) put in another pair of tube(6SN7) and its silent .but the Sophia's glow looked to bright to me Hmmm.... With the 6C8G it was buzzing but when i put the volume all the way up  dead silent  since its a stepper is volume cutoff when at maximum?


----------



## 3083joe

Tonight 
Elle sings the harold Arlen songbook. With billy mays orchestra.


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> They were actually russian power tubes noisy in the WA22 and silent in the wa2 the SP that was on has over 500 hours on it ill try another SP that has 30 hours on it and see if its the same .Well just tried it and the new tube sounds fine might be that the 500 hours+tube is on its last leg .  This is a picture of the new SP


 

 Cool, IIRC EH 6N30P??.  But, the WA22 remains in the picture.  So, roll the tubes ( where applicable)  and verify if it's the same channel or not.  It could be a simple bad solder joint or a ground loop situation that the WA22 is more susceptible too.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Cool, IIRC EH 6N30P??.  But, the WA22 remains in the picture.  So, roll the tubes ( where applicable)  and verify if it's the same channel or not.  It could be a simple bad solder joint or a ground loop situation that the WA22 is more susceptible too.


 

 My WA22 is noisy on power tubes. Always has been. Some power tubes are dead quiet. Some never stop being noisy.


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> Yes I am. But have to get everything needed and the time. Which is hard with 4 kids under 8.
> Why?


joe, four kids under eight? Dude, you da man! I'm almost 59 with a 2 month old baby girl, but geez. Way to go my friend. Does daddy get any sleep?


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> joe, four kids under eight? Dude, you da man! I'm almost 59 with a 2 month old baby girl, but geez. Way to go my friend. Does daddy get any sleep?



Yeah I get some every once in a while. 
Oldest is 8 then 6 then 4 all girls. Then a 1 1/2 yr old boy. I'm 38, they keep me busy and crazy.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yeah I get some every once in a while.
> Oldest is 8 then 6 then 4 all girls. Then a 1 1/2 yr old boy. I'm 38, they keep me busy and crazy.


 

 Crazy time. I have two boys 11 and 6.
  
 I couldn't do music for years. Just no time. I found movies were easier and that's why I have a fairly state of the art home theater.
  
 Now my youngest is 6 I have found I have time for music again. I've had a massive explosion of music gear.


----------



## TonyNewman

Including that crazy vinyl stuff ...


----------



## Krutsch

I have a 13 year-old daughter that is FREAKING OUT about who knows what? AAAaahhhhhh


----------



## bpcans

krutsch said:


> I have a 13 year-old daughter that is FREAKING OUT about who knows what? AAAaahhhhhh :eek:


LMAO cause that's what they do. Love you daddy!


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> I have a 13 year-old daughter that is FREAKING OUT about who knows what? AAAaahhhhhh


 
  
 Vasectomy. Get it early, get it often


----------



## novaca

So we have Woo with children.
 I report my 1 + 3 + 4 (girl, girl, boy)
 Closed headphones or second apartment ...


----------



## bpcans

novaca said:


> So we have Woo with children.
> 
> I report my 1 + 3 + 4 (girl, girl, boy)
> 
> Closed headphones or second apartment ...


novaca, didn't you know? Daddies wants go right to the back of the bus. End of the line, and out the door around the corner. I'm just grateful that I get to sleep inside sometimes. I think it would be easier to get another set of hp's. For some reason women get upset when they find out you've got a second apartment.


----------



## novaca

bpcans said:


> I think it would be easier to get another set of hp's. For some reason women get upset when they find out you've got a second apartment.


 
  
 ... and headphones are also less expensive (hey wife, should I buy another new headphones or apartment?).
 But I love my children, I am full of tenderness when I see them all to sleep .
 (no child is so cute that his parents were not happy when asleep)


----------



## devilboy

3083joe said:


> Yes I am. But have to get everything needed and the time. Which is hard with 4 kids under 8.
> Why?


Lol. Just wondering. 
Remember, there's a video on innerfidelity by Tyll. Its helpful.


----------



## jhljhl

devilboy said:


> Lol. Just wondering.
> Remember, there's a video on innerfidelity by Tyll. Its helpful.




There is an endorphin cable on sale in the for sale section


----------



## pippen99

I was considering at some point the WA5-LE as my end of the line amp.  When I heard that Woo would make the WA5 balanced I was that much closer to pulling the trigger.  The Woo site has been showing the WA-5 as balance but not until today the LE.  Well both units are now balanced and come with huge price increases.  The WA-5 is now $5899 which apparently includes the internal parts upgrade as part of the base unit.  The LE is $3699 with the internal upgrade still a $1200 option.  That is a 900-1000 dollar price increase to get to balanced.  It may be worth it but the WA-22 looks a lot better today!


----------



## Stereolab42

pippen99 said:


> I was considering at some point the WA5-LE as my end of the line amp.  When I heard that Woo would make the WA5 balanced I was that much closer to pulling the trigger.  The Woo site has been showing the WA-5 as balance but not until today the LE.  Well both units are now balanced and come with huge price increases.  The WA-5 is now $5899 which apparently includes the internal parts upgrade as part of the base unit.  The LE is $3699 with the internal upgrade still a $1200 option.  That is a 900-1000 dollar price increase to get to balanced.  It may be worth it but the WA-22 looks a lot better today!


 
  
 I don't think the WA-5 platform is a balanced architecture, either new or old.


----------



## pippen99

stereolab42 said:


> I don't ink the WA-5 platform is a balanced architecture, either new or old.


 
 It is now.  Check out the Woo website.


----------



## Stereolab42

pippen99 said:


> It is now.  Check out the Woo website.


 
  
 Maybe I'm missing something, but the word "balanced" doesn't appear on the WA5 or WA5LE description pages.


----------



## Khragon

pippen99 said:


> I was considering at some point the WA5-LE as my end of the line amp.  When I heard that Woo would make the WA5 balanced I was that much closer to pulling the trigger.  The Woo site has been showing the WA-5 as balance but not until today the LE.  Well both units are now balanced and come with huge price increases.  The WA-5 is now $5899 which apparently includes the internal parts upgrade as part of the base unit.  The LE is $3699 with the internal upgrade still a $1200 option.  That is a 900-1000 dollar price increase to get to balanced.  It may be worth it but the WA-22 looks a lot better today!




New WA5 only has xlr input for convenience. The only addition to the new wa5 is the ability to reduce power to 1.5w.

Personally I would not buy the new wa5 even to drive speakers, now that the wa5le can output the full 8w @ 8 Ohm, I can drive speakers by using xlr to speakers adapter.


----------



## pippen99

khragon said:


> New WA5 only has xlr input for convenience. The only addition to the new wa5 is the ability to reduce power to 1.5w.
> 
> Personally I would not buy the new wa5 even to drive speakers, now that the wa5le can output the full 8w @ 8 Ohm, I can drive speakers by using xlr to speakers adapter.


 
 My apologies for my technical naivete.  I assumed the XLR output meant balanced output.  What no one has talked about is the massive price increase.  Does adding the XLR output and adjustable level, impedance, and power switches add up to 30% price increase?


----------



## bpcans

jhljhl said:


> There is an endorphin cable on sale in the for sale section


I use a Stefan Audio Arts Endorphin power able with my WA6, and I think it's absolutely fabulous.


----------



## TonyNewman

On the topic of the WA6, I recently changed my rigs around so that I have my WA6 being fed from my Vega DAC, rather than the somewhat harsh and nasty Moon 100D (not Simaudio's best effort on that little DAC). Anyway, I was very impressed at how well the WA6 scales with the better DAC driving the HD800/HD600. This is a great little amp. WA5 still kills it (as it should) but it is a great little performer. Currently using NU 6F8Gs and the Brimar rectifier.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

pippen99 said:


> ...30% price increase?


 
  
 Blame it on inflation.  My one dollar is not worth what it was 10 yrs ago.


----------



## Khragon

pippen99 said:


> My apologies for my technical naivete.  I assumed the XLR output meant balanced output.  What no one has talked about is the massive price increase.  Does adding the XLR output and adjustable level, impedance, and power switches add up to 30% price increase?


 
 That's for the market to decide .  I think for the WA5LE those are real upgrades, but not so much for WA5.  Like I said, now that WA5LE can output it's full power into the XLR output, so speakers can be driven from XLR output, kinda make WA5 a bit redundant.  
  
 *edit* is it just me? I found the updated WA5 page to be underwhelming, only one photo? and the WA5LE photo looks like a pre-production unit, it still has "speaker" marking on the switch.


----------



## TonyNewman

My own experience with using the WA5 to drive speakers didn't go very well. Perhaps with super sensitive horn type units in the mid to high 90s sensitivity it would work much better, but 8W is pretty feeble to drive many floor standers. Dynamics and bass impact suffer heavily.
  
 I could see a tube amp working much better as a preamp, feeding a beefy SS power amp.


----------



## Khragon

WA5 sounded pretty good to me when I had it driving a pair of Zu Omen, 8W is a lot when the speakers are at 98 dB efficiency.


----------



## TonyNewman

98dB!!! Not surprised that sounded good. Those are very, very efficient speakers.


----------



## Stereolab42

pippen99 said:


> My apologies for my technical naivete.  I assumed the XLR output meant balanced output.  What no one has talked about is the massive price increase.  Does adding the XLR output and adjustable level, impedance, and power switches add up to 30% price increase?


 
  
 The $1000+ parts upgrade is included in the price now, so it's not as bad as it appears.


----------



## ru4music

khragon said:


> WA5 sounded pretty good to me when I had it driving a pair of Zu Omen, 8W is a lot when the speakers are at 98 dB efficiency.








Let's see: 1 watt = 98db, 2 watts =101db, 4 watts = 104 db, and *8 watts = 107 db* at each speaker.  That's the equivalent of listening to two power lawnmowers 3 feet from each ear.


----------



## pippen99

stereolab42 said:


> The $1000+ parts upgrade is included in the price now, so it's not as bad as it appears.


 
 The WA5-LE increased $904 from $2795 to $3699. The new base price does not include the $1200 internal parts upgrade.  That is an increase of 32.3%.  The WA5 went from a base of $3695 plus the $1200 upgrade for a total of $4895 to a new base of $5899 upgrade now mandatory for an increase of 20.5%.  Maybe to some minds not so bad on the WA5 but horrendous on the LE.  It is as bad as it appears.


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > WA5 sounded pretty good to me when I had it driving a pair of Zu Omen, 8W is a lot when the speakers are at 98 dB efficiency.
> ...


 
  
 It isn't just the volume (decibels) available from the speaker. There needs to be enough power on tap to 'control' the speaker and provide good dynamics and bass. That is often much more power than the mathematics suggests. Having at least 20dB on tap beyond your normal listening level is a good idea.
  
 Good example - the Auralic Taurus should have enough juice to drive the HE6 - and it will. It will even go loud with it, but the sound is thin, weak and anemic compared to what a more powerful amp will do (like the WA5 or 430HA).
  
 I like 300B tube amps for headphones - 8W will drive anything (including the HE6) very well indeed. Probably massive overkill for anything but the HE6.


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> It isn't just the volume (decibels) available from the speaker. There needs to be enough power on tap to 'control' the speaker and provide good dynamics and bass. That is often much more power than the mathematics suggests. Having at least 20dB on tap beyond your normal listening level is a good idea.
> 
> Good example - the Auralic Taurus should have enough juice to drive the HE6 - and it will. It will even go loud with it, but the sound is thin, weak and anemic compared to what a more powerful amp will do (like the WA5 or 430HA).
> 
> I like 300B tube amps for headphones - 8W will drive anything (including the HE6) very well indeed. Probably massive overkill for anything but the HE6.


 
  
 Now I'm really curious as to what the WA-5LE sounds like driving speakers...


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> It isn't just the volume (decibels) available from the speaker. There needs to be enough power on tap to 'control' the speaker and provide good dynamics and bass. That is often much more power than the mathematics suggests. Having at least 20dB on tap beyond your normal listening level is a good idea.
> 
> Good example - the Auralic Taurus should have enough juice to drive the HE6 - and it will. It will even go loud with it, but the sound is thin, weak and anemic compared to what a more powerful amp will do (like the WA5 or 430HA).
> 
> I like 300B tube amps for headphones - 8W will drive anything (including the HE6) very well indeed. Probably massive overkill for anything but the HE6.


 

 Agreed!  It's relative to the efficiency and quality of the speaker design.  Eight watts can be more than enough.  I've listened to glorious presentations from the 45 tube (1-2 watts) utilizing 12" PHY speakers configured in an open baffle design (no horn loading.)


----------



## Stereolab42

jhljhl said:


> Now I'm really curious as to what the WA-5LE sounds like driving speakers...


 
  
 How would that even be possible? The XLR outputs on the front want to see loads of 20+ ohms, not 4 or 8. Wouldn't you need to add an external output transformer? I would guess most of the extra cost in a WA5 is in the cost of a more fancy output transformer with taps for those lower ohm loads...


----------



## Khragon

stereolab42 said:


> How would that even be possible? The XLR outputs on the front want to see loads of 20+ ohms, not 4 or 8. Wouldn't you need to add an external output transformer? I would guess most of the extra cost in a WA5 is in the cost of a more fancy output transformer with taps for those lower ohm loads...


 
 Maybe Woo can chime in, but as far as I can tell the new WA5-LE XLR now output 8W @ 8 Ohm with low impedance setting and 8W @ 110 Ohm with high impedance setting (8W is for high level, 1.5W for low level).  I don't think the amp cares what load you give it, as long as it sounds good to you that's the right settings.  The classic and new WA5 also output 8W @ 8 Ohm out to the speaker taps, I don't see the difference here, it's just the WA5 gives you a switch for you to use turn on/off the speaker mode, where as for WA5-LE you have to plug in the adapter just like a pair of headphones.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> Maybe Woo can chime in, but as far as I can tell the new WA5-LE XLR now output 8W @ 8 Ohm with low impedance setting and 8W @ 110 Ohm with high impedance setting (8W is for high level, 1.5W for low level).  I don't think the amp cares what load you give it, as long as it sounds good to you that's the right settings.  The classic and new WA5 also output 8W @ 8 Ohm out to the speaker taps, I don't see the difference here, it's just the WA5 gives you a switch for you to use turn on/off the speaker mode, where as for WA5-LE you have to plug in the adapter just like a pair of headphones.


 
  
 I think hooking up a load of lower impedance than an output is rated for can cause an amp to overload/overheat because too much current can be drawn, whereas the opposite is always OK since it would just be a case of underloading a circuit. At least this is my experience with car audio solid-state amps, so YMMV, but I imagine tube circuits would be even more picky. But if Woo is actually advertising an 8W front output on the WA5-LE that can handle 8 ohms, that would be a strange decision since that would kind of be undercutting the reason for the WA5. Maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## Khragon

wooaudio said:


> *What's the difference between the LEVEL switch and HP Output switch? *
> 
> First of all, both the XLR and 1/4" output are active the same time. The HP POWER HI / LO switch select the headphone power output model between high and low power. It affects both outputs the same time. When it is on HI Power, the max output on the headphone outputs is about 8w. On the LO Power, the outputs are approx 1.5w. This is NOT a gain control switch. It switches between Plate output (HI) or Cathode output (LO) of the 300B tubes. To explain the technical differences, we will have to open up a whole new topic so we are not discussing here.. For us to understand,  this switch selects different part of the 300B tube to get high or low power output to the headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


wooaudio said:


> You can use both XLR and 1/4" the same time but you won't get the best sound as opposed to use one hearphone a time. The down effect would be minimum when using same headphones.
> 
> Hi-Z is 120 ohms and Lo-Z is 8 ohms, same on the classic WA5.


 
  
 I found some of the earlier posts by Woo, look like 8 Ohms and 120 Ohms (instead of 110 like I stated, sorry).


----------



## 3083joe

pippen99 said:


> I was considering at some point the WA5-LE as my end of the line amp.  When I heard that Woo would make the WA5 balanced I was that much closer to pulling the trigger.  The Woo site has been showing the WA-5 as balance but not until today the LE.  Well both units are now balanced and come with huge price increases.  The WA-5 is now $5899 which apparently includes the internal parts upgrade as part of the base unit.  The LE is $3699 with the internal upgrade still a $1200 option.  That is a 900-1000 dollar price increase to get to balanced.  It may be worth it but the WA-22 looks a lot better today!



Never heard the wa5 but the wa22 is a beast.


----------



## 3083joe

Classic. 
#duke #hodges


----------



## reeltime

stereolab42 said:


> I don't think the WA-5 platform is a balanced architecture, either new or old.


 

 I asked Woo about this some time ago.  A single end triode cannot be balanced is what he told me.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Never heard the wa5 but the wa22 is a beast.


 

 I agree but you have to spend I think some on tubes to get there.  Otherwise stock it is a polite amp.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I agree but you have to spend I think some on tubes to get there.  Otherwise stock it is a polite amp.



That is very true. Really probably half the actual cost of the wa22 in tubes or more.
But I imagine it's that way with the wa5 except it would cost more for tubes, being it uses 300b.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> That is very true. Really probably half the actual cost of the wa22 in tubes or more.
> But I imagine it's that way with the wa5 except it would cost more for tubes, being it uses 300b.


 

 Yes that's a reason I can wait a little and am really enjoying the WA22 but might move to for the additional speaker use.
 Would really like to try a Glenn OTL just saw a pic of a newly completed amp on the other thread...


----------



## JamesBr

3083joe said:


> Never heard the wa5 but the wa22 is a beast.


 
 Here you go: http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa5.html


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We're thrilled to officially announce new WA5 & WA5-LE.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Classic.
> #duke #hodges


 

 Stop-it! LOL!


----------



## ru4music

hifiguy528 said:


> We're thrilled to officially announce new WA5 & WA5-LE.


 

 Love it!  As a Woo audio customer for well over a decade (a testimony to Woo design) what are the differences to the previous design in the WA5/ LE amps; and what are the the primary justifications to purchasing the new design over the old?
  
 Respectfully,  but serious question(s)!


----------



## 3083joe

Excellent album. A little noise on the floor but great sound.


----------



## daverich4

.
  
  
 Just got this the other day. Excellent sound and a style of music I really enjoy. Apple Music has it if someone wanted to audition it but the sound isn't as good as the CD.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

ru4music said:


> Love it!  As a Woo audio customer for well over a decade (a testimony to Woo design) what are the differences to the previous design in the WA5/ LE amps; and what are the the primary justifications to purchasing the new design over the old?
> Respectfully,  but serious question(s)!


 
  
 There were many things changed under the hood. The marquee feature on new WA5 and WA5-LE are the user selectable headphones output switches on the front panel. 
  
 - Hi/LO POWER output setting
  
 - Hi/LO IMPEDANCE output setting
  
 - HI/LO LEVEL output setting
  
 When used in combination, new WA5 and WA5-LE can drive any dynamic headphones on the market today regardless of power demands.
  
*New WA5 back panel. *see the audiophile-grade ultra premium WBT connectors and spk terminals? 
  
 .


----------



## Khragon

hifiguy528 said:


> There were *many things* changed under the hood. The marquee feature on new WA5 and WA5-LE are the user selectable headphones output switches on the front panel.
> ...
> *New WA5 back panel. *see the audiophile-grade ultra premium WBT connectors and spk terminals?
> ...


 
 Can you expand on "many things"? is the Output transformer the same?, the topology, etc...? also am I suppose to be impressed with these connectors?  I mean sure they look nice, but I doubt they sound any different compare to the standard decent quality connectors/terminals.  Also can you confirm the WA5-LE XLR output power, I think it's 8W @ 8 ohm for low impedance and 8W @ 120 ohm for high impedance right?  One last comment, is the WA5-LE going to have the "speaker" marking for output selection switch? and just not be able to go there? I was hoping that's a pre-production unit and the production unit would have speaker label removed.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## TonyNewman

hifiguy528 said:


>


 
  
 A small issue - the 6SN7 sockets are still too close to the 300B sockets. If you are using fat tubes this gets problematic (try SERPs and 6F8Gs/6C8Gs - it gets TIGHT). Using spacers can make it all fit, but it is a problem that doesn't need to happen in the first place - there is plenty of available area on the unit to spread the sockets out. Moving the 6SN7 sockets slightly forward and apart would fix the problem before it starts.
  
 Apart from that minor whinge (and it is a small issue), the new amp looks great.


----------



## 3083joe

Well worth checking out.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Well worth checking out.


 

 At first glance I thought that was Michael Jackson, but I didn't see a white glove and then took an additional look. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You had me worried for a second Joe, just don't put up any Justin Bieber_!  _


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> At first glance I thought that was Michael Jackson, but I didn't see a white glove and then took an additional look.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nothing wrong with Justin Bieber that a 300lb death row inmate couldn't fix.


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> Nothing wrong with Justin Bieber that a 300lb death row inmate couldn't fix.


 

 LOL!


----------



## TonyNewman

ru4music said:


> LOL!


 
  
 Only problem is that he might actually enjoy the experience. That would kill it for me.


----------



## ru4music

tonynewman said:


> Only problem is that he might actually enjoy the experience. That would kill it for me.


 

 In the words of Justin's favorite (i.e. only) lyrics, "_Oh baby-baby!_"


----------



## Exidrion

khragon said:


> Can you expand on "many things"? is the Output transformer the same?, the topology, etc...? also am I suppose to be impressed with these connectors?  I mean sure they look nice, but I doubt they sound any different compare to the standard decent quality connectors/terminals.  Also can you confirm the WA5-LE XLR output power, I think it's 8W @ 8 ohm for low impedance and 8W @ 120 ohm for high impedance right?  One last comment, is the WA5-LE going to have the "speaker" marking for output selection switch? and just not be able to go there? I was hoping that's a pre-production unit and the production unit would have speaker label removed.
> 
> Thanks.




Yeah, I have to agree with you. I've said it before but I really think you're paying 2k extra or w/e it is for impedance and gain switches and fancy terminals that make 0 difference, and I find it really hard to put any stock in a company that recommends their sponsored multi hundred dollar cables to customers, though I can't really blame them.

That being said, if the topology and internals have changed it might be worth it. I'd be interested to see an "old vs new" comparison. I'd also love to hear a woo audio amp one day, the wds-1 DAC I have doesn't really out shine my Bifrost by any significant margin apart from aesthetics but it isn't worth the $1200 price.


----------



## tassardar

Joined the woo audio amp family today! Got my wa22 from my local dealer today and running my he500 happily now


----------



## devilboy

3083joe said:


> Excellent album. A little noise on the floor but great sound.


+1


----------



## devilboy

tassardar said:


> Joined the woo audio amp family today! Got my wa22 from my local dealer today and running my he500 happily now


Welcome aboard! Stock tubes?


----------



## koiloco

tassardar said:


> Joined the woo audio amp family today! Got my wa22 from my local dealer today and running my he500 happily now


 
 Gratzzzz! but I am curious.  Did you specifically buy the WA22 for your HE500 or you have other HPs too?


----------



## tassardar

I have others but he500 was the main consideration. My tracks were vocal oriented and the wa22 is much more enjoyable then the wa5le to me on that aspect.

Mine is all stock so I expect that it can improve in the future.


----------



## Pasquale

Hey All:
  
 Joined the Woo Audio Wa2 family a few weeks ago.  Fantastic Amp!  Mainly listening with my HD800's.  I also have a Burson Soloist. The Burson is just as good, but quite different.  The transistor-ness of the Burson sound becomes evident side by side.  My only change to the Wa2 was changing out the driver tubes for a pair of Mullard E88CC's I had in an old Sonic Frontiers CD Player.  Outstanding change if you like smooth, controlled, transparent sound - most tube heads do!  
  
 Also using the Wa2 as a preamp to run a Bel Canto S500 amp feeding a pair Revel Studio speakers - again excellent.  Not as good as my Sonic Frontiers preamp but at 1/3 the cost and dual-purposed the performance is great - and less fuss.
  
 Highly recommended.


----------



## 3083joe

tassardar said:


> Joined the woo audio amp family today! Got my wa22 from my local dealer today and running my he500 happily now



Congrats


----------



## Badas

tassardar said:


> Joined the woo audio amp family today! Got my wa22 from my local dealer today and running my he500 happily now




Congrats. WA22 is a lovely amp.


----------



## ru4music

tassardar said:


> Joined the woo audio amp family today! Got my wa22 from my local dealer today and running my he500 happily now


 

 Welcome!


----------



## ru4music

pasquale said:


> Hey All:
> 
> Joined the Woo Audio Wa2 family a few weeks ago.  Fantastic Amp!  Mainly listening with my HD800's.  I also have a Burson Soloist. The Burson is just as good, but quite different.  The transistor-ness of the Burson sound becomes evident side by side.  My only change to the Wa2 was changing out the driver tubes for a pair of Mullard E88CC's I had in an old Sonic Frontiers CD Player.  Outstanding change if you like smooth, controlled, transparent sound - most tube heads do!
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome!  What tubes are you running for the output and rectifiers on the WA2?  For more info check out the WA2 thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2/990
  
 and the WA2 tube rolling thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/360


----------



## koiloco

tassardar said:


> I have others but he500 was the main consideration. My tracks were vocal oriented and the wa22 is much more enjoyable then the wa5le to me on that aspect.
> 
> Mine is all stock so I expect that it can improve in the future.


 
 I love my WA22 with HD800 but I was not as happy with my HE500 driven by it.  Do you have a pre?


----------



## 13713

tassardar said:


> Joined the woo audio amp family today! Got my wa22 from my local dealer today and running my he500 happily now




Such a nice amp. Woo makes amazing products you will love it for years


----------



## 3083joe

Thanks for the cable PETEREK
Beautiful. Can't wait to let you all know how it sounds.


----------



## 3083joe

Beautiful.


----------



## tassardar

koiloco said:


> I love my WA22 with HD800 but I was not as happy with my HE500 driven by it.  Do you have a pre?




I use my zx2 dap as a source. Wa22 has a really nice vocals and mids as a amp for zx2


----------



## Brittonal

Does anyone have a recommendation for a pair of 6SN7 tubes I can throw into my WA6 along with my Brimar 5Z4GY?  Almost all my listening is done on my Sennheiser HD650s.  Also looking to keep the cost at or under $100 for the pair.


----------



## TonyNewman

brittonal said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a pair of 6SN7 tubes I can throw into my WA6 along with my Brimar 5Z4GY?  Almost all my listening is done on my Sennheiser HD650s.  Also looking to keep the cost at or under $100 for the pair.


 
  
 I really like NUs in the WA6. I haven't bought any for a while, so can't be sure, but NU 6C8G or 6F8G might be within that budget.
  
 Nice pairing with the Brimar.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> I really like NUs in the WA6. I haven't bought any for a while, so can't be sure, but NU 6C8G or 6F8G might be within that budget.
> 
> Nice pairing with the Brimar.


 

 Agreed, no going back to 6SN7 after the 6F8G
 They are running around 70-120 a pair or a little cheaper if you go with the 6C8G
 But need the adapters, I have a pair of 6DE7 to 6F8G/6C8G that i don't need @2359glenn made them so they are NICE. I'll sell you for $50 shipped, i paid $50 each
 Just thought id offer, switched to WA22 so no need for them


----------



## 3083joe

Nice to see Woo Audio Now Has TA-274B on upgrade with all amps that can use them


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> Nice to see Woo Audio Now Has TA-274B on upgrade with all amps that can use them


I toyed with the idea of getting a TA274b until I pm'd DubstepGirl who pointed out that the price of the Takatsuki 274b was more than the cost of my WA6. Better to go for an amp upgrade instead, which made good sense to me.


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> I toyed with the idea of getting a TA274b until I pm'd DubstepGirl who pointed out that the price of the Takatsuki 274b was more than the cost of my WA6. Better to go for an amp upgrade instead, which made good sense to me.



Yeah that was My thoughts when I had wa6, which is why now I have the wa22, might make the move to the tak soon.


----------



## Pasquale

Thanks for the links!  The power and rectifier tubes are stock.  I am itching to try some different power tubes.  I have been looking at either some WE 7236 NOS from Woo Audio or some (cheaper) Winged "C" 6H13C / 6AS7G.  Any thoughts?


----------



## Badas

pasquale said:


> Thanks for the links!  The power and rectifier tubes are stock.  I am itching to try some different power tubes.  I have been looking at either some WE 7236 NOS from Woo Audio or some (cheaper) Winged "C" 6H13C / 6AS7G.  Any thoughts?


 
  
 Avoid Winged "C" 6H13C / 6AS7G in the WA22. A mixed bag tube. Some work. Some don't. Most are noisy in the WA22.
  
 Some have said they are okay in the WA2 so you may be okay.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> I toyed with the idea of getting a TA274b until I pm'd DubstepGirl who pointed out that the price of the Takatsuki 274b was more than the cost of my WA6. Better to go for an amp upgrade instead, which made good sense to me.


 
 Are you thinking about upgrading from the WA6?


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> Are you thinking about upgrading from the WA6?


As a person who's always looking for a better headphone listening experience, yes I've been thinking about upgrading my amp and DAC. From here to the moon by chemical rockets takes four days. Kinda like going from my iPhone to my Woo WA6. From the moon to Mars, WA6 to upgraded WA5, is really a big leap in my financial solar system, if that makes any sense.


----------



## joseph69

bpcans said:


> As a person who's always looking for a better headphone listening experience, yes I've been thinking about upgrading my amp and DAC. From here to the moon by chemical rockets takes four days. Kinda like going from my iPhone to my Woo WA6. From the moon to Mars, WA6 to upgraded WA5, is really a big leap in my financial solar system, if that makes any sense.


 
 I thought you were looking to upgrade to the WA22.
 And yes, the WA5 is a very far jump financially, and not to mention the price of the tubes.


----------



## 3083joe

One thing I have to say about the gec 6as7 is they are not powerful enough. 7236 and 5998 have so much more power. Maybe it's time to get a pair of 421s


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> One thing I have to say about the *gec 6as7 is they are not powerful enough*. 7236 and 5998 have so much more power. Maybe it's time to get a pair of 421s


 
 Not powerful enough on a wa22 and hd800 HPs?  I would think that the gec 6as7 would be fine, they seemed adequate from my wa2/ hd800 testing a while back.  What specifically are they lacking?


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> One thing I have to say about the gec 6as7 is they are not powerful enough. 7236 and 5998 have so much more power. Maybe it's time to get a pair of 421s


 

 I think I see what you mean but they are, I think, euphonic and have nice detail that the 421 I don't think have.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Not powerful enough on a wa22 and hd800 HPs?  I would think that the gec 6as7 would be fine, they seemed adequate from my wa2/ hd800 testing a while back.  What specifically are they lacking?



It's not that I can't push them. It's just not nearly as much as the 5998 or 7236. But they for sure said amazing.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I think I see what you mean but they are, I think, euphonic and have nice detail that the 421 I don't think have.



Yeah they are very detailed, I haven't heard the 421 tho.


----------



## 3083joe

This is the life. 
Strayhorn hodges 
I'm just a lucky so and so. 
Wow.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yeah they are very detailed, I haven't heard the 421 tho.


 

 Some say that it is the same as 5998.  But in my limited exp. with a few pairs I think the 421a are a little better.  But it just might be the pairs I've had.  They sound almost the same but the there seemed more "clarity" with 421a. It is like a 10% improvement basically to me. YMMV.  BTW. I've been enjoying your jazz selections too thanks.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Some say that it is the same as 5998.  But in my limited exp. with a few pairs I think the 421a are a little better.  But it just might be the pairs I've had.  They sound almost the same but the there seemed more "clarity" with 421a. It is like a 10% improvement basically to me. YMMV.  BTW. I've been enjoying your jazz selections too thanks.



Yeah. That's what I hear.
Looking for a pair, if you know about any. 
And I'm glad you are. Love my jazz.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> It's not that I can't push them. It's just not nearly as much as the 5998 or 7236. But they for sure said amazing.


 

 Keep in mind that they'll also need a least 100 hours (maybe 200) to break-in.  Maybe some of what your hearing is the tubes have not opened up yet, which may be why you're trying to crank them up to compensate.  I believe the GECs have yet to really flow for you in spite of sounding amazing already.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Keep in mind that they'll also need a least 100 hours (maybe 200) to break-in.  Maybe some of what your hearing is the tubes have not opened up yet, which may be why you're trying to crank them up to compensate.  I believe the GECs have yet to really flow for you in spite of sounding amazing already.



That's probably true. Doubt I even have 50 hrs on them. Probably more like 30. Probably don't have 100 on my wa22 itself. Lol. Patience, patience.


----------



## ru4music

jhljhl said:


> Some say that it is the same as 5998.  But in my limited exp. with a few pairs I think the 421a are a little better.  But it just might be the pairs I've had.  They sound almost the same but the there seemed more "clarity" with 421a. It is like a 10% improvement basically to me. YMMV.  BTW. I've been enjoying your jazz selections too thanks.


 

 10% is a lot and would justify the purchase IMHO.  I have never heard them on my wa2, but I know other wa22 owners that have and said there was no difference overall.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> 10% is a lot and would justify the purchase IMHO.  I have never heard them on my wa2, but I know other wa22 owners that have and said there was no difference overall.



I heard many go both ways. But I will purchase a set when I can find a good pair for the "right" price. Missed a few good ones on eBay.


----------



## jhljhl

ru4music said:


> 10% is a lot and would justify the purchase IMHO.  I have never heard them on my wa2, but I know other wa22 owners that have and said there was no difference overall.


 

 I got my 421a tubes at good prices so it was worth it to me.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> This is the life.
> Strayhorn hodges
> I'm just a lucky so and so.
> Wow.


 

 Joe, you need to keep a list of your favorite/ best Jazz albums and publish them here.  I can't keep up! LOL


----------



## 3083joe

Here's one for ya
Sarah with Clifford Brown
"Jim" is an amazing track.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Joe, you need to keep a list of your favorite/ best Jazz albums and publish them here.  I can't keep up! LOL


 

 Yeah. I have taken an interest in them as well. I have ordered a few.
  
 Can you make a top 10 list? Please?


----------



## Shaffer

Wanted to stop by and say hello as a very recent WA6 owner. I just finished reading (twice) the WA6 and the rectifier threads, and I'm about to start on this one. It may take a little while....


----------



## 13713

shaffer said:


> Wanted to stop by and say hello as a very recent WA6 owner. I just finished reading (twice) the WA6 and the rectifier threads, and I'm about to start on this one. It may take a little while....




Is this your first tube amp? If so welcome to the world of misery as you are now a member of the community forever on the quest for that "elusive" sound. Hopefully you will find it sooner than many of us as it is wallet and relationship destroying.


----------



## Shaffer

13713 said:


> Is this your first tube amp? If so welcome to the world of misery as you are now a member of the community forever on the quest for that "elusive" sound. Hopefully you will find it sooner than many of us as it is wallet and relationship destroying.




Headphone-wise, it's my 5th tube amp and the only one that takes these unusual tubes. My other amps run 6SN7/6AS7 and various substitutes. Tube-wise, the Woo presents a new learning curve. Its original owner included a number of bottles, so at this point I'm just trying to get a handle on the sound of the circuit. My hope is the same as yours; going down the rabbit hole is not a part of the plan.


----------



## 3083joe

shaffer said:


> Wanted to stop by and say hello as a very recent WA6 owner. I just finished reading (twice) the WA6 and the rectifier threads, and I'm about to start on this one. It may take a little while....


 

 Congrats and welcome!!


----------



## 3083joe

shaffer said:


> Headphone-wise, it's my 5th tube amp and the only one that takes these unusual tubes. My other amps run 6SN7/6AS7 and various substitutes. Tube-wise, the Woo presents a new learning curve. Its original owner included a number of bottles, so at this point I'm just trying to get a handle on the sound of the circuit. My hope is the same as yours; going down the rabbit hole is not a part of the plan.


 

 All good you can run all those tube also with an adapter!


----------



## Shaffer

3083joe said:


> All good you can run all those tube also with an adapter!




As I understand, I can run 6SN7 and 7N7 with adapters. A 6AS7G needs 2.5A vs 600mA for a 6SN7GTB, IIRC, and I don't think the WA6 can swing that kind of juice. Can it? 

7N7 and 7AF7 are some of my favorite drivers and I have a good selection. First, though, I'd like to know what I'm dealing with and that will take a bit of time. I have a GZ34 and 6FD7s on the way My first tubes exclusively for the Woo, aside from what was sent with the amp. It actually came with some fine bottles, as I understand, including a RK60. ATM, there are 56 possible signal tube/rectifier combinations. This, alone, will take ages to get through. lol

Don't get me wrong; it's all a part of the fun of playing with tube amps.



Edit: spelling


----------



## 3083joe

shaffer said:


> As I understand, I can run 6SN7 and 7N7 with adapters. A 6AS7G needs 2.5A vs 600mA for a 6SN7GTB, IIRC, and I don't think the WA6 can swing that kind of juice. Can it?
> 
> 7N7 and 7AF7 are some of my favorite drivers and I have a good selection. First, though, I'd like to know what I'm dealing with and that will take a bit of time. I have a GZ34 and 6FD7s on the way My first tubes exclusively for the Woo, aside from what was sent with the amp. It actually came with some fine bottles, as I understand, including a RK60. ATM, there are 56 possible signal tube/rectifier combinations. This, alone, will take ages to get through. lol
> 
> ...


 

 6as7G no, i don't think
 6F8G is the best Drivers hands down on the WA6 (Tung Sol or NU)
 RK60 is great and cheap
 Brimar 5r4 and 5z4 both are awesome rectifiers
 WE422 also
 as well as the u52 and gz37 Fat bottle and normal mullard
 just to name a few


----------



## a1uc

New MA22 Owner looking for best tubes to use with the HD800


----------



## abvolt

a1uc said:


> New MA22 Owner looking for best tubes to use with the HD800


 
 welcome the wa22 is a great amp I really enjoy mine. I'm currently using a pair of tung sol 6080's mullard gz32 and a pair of nu 6f8g's it's a very modest combo others here use some really nice tubes..


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> New MA22 Owner looking for best tubes to use with the HD800


 

 Welcome,
 Depend on how much you want to spend
 Brimar 5r4 or 5z4 are nice and not bad in price
 Mullard 6080 are nice and not bad either
 6F8G TS drivers are great 
 you can do all these for 500 or less
 Or go hard 
 WE422 
 Mullard ecc32 or 35 Brown base
 Then TS 5998 or WE421 or GEC 6AS7
 But thats going to be 1500


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> welcome the wa22 is a great amp I really enjoy mine. I'm currently using a pair of tung sol 6080's mullard gz32 and a pair of nu 6f8g's it's a very modest combo others here use some really nice tubes..


 

 That's a great combo.
  
 I have used any power tube. Tung-Sol /Chatham 6AS7G power tubes are nice. 6520 is the same.
 Brimar 5Z4GY Rectifier.
 Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G.


----------



## a1uc

abvolt said:


> welcome the wa22 is a great amp I really enjoy mine. I'm currently using a pair of tung sol 6080's mullard gz32 and a pair of nu 6f8g's it's a very modest combo others here use some really nice tubes..


 
 I have a pair of CV593 Mullards I just found


----------



## abvolt

a1uc said:


> I have a pair of CV593 Mullards I just found


 
 That's the same as the gz32 mullard their great sounding you'll really like what you here from that tube, you will also like as Badas said in his post -Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G. I think these are a must have tube I no longer use 6sn7's because these are soo much better sounding you'll need a pair of adapters to use these tube..


----------



## 3083joe

Question for wa22 owners 
If I'm coming out balanced 2 x xlr to my hd800
Do I have to be coming in balanced on the back to get sound? As in 2 x xlr not rca? 
Thanks
I'm fully balanced coming out of this


----------



## a1uc

You'll get sound but for true bal you need a bal source

I'm doing the same thing but using my totaldac bal out into the WA22


----------



## a1uc

I used the CV593 with my KT150 but sold the 150's glad I held on to them


----------



## a1uc

abvolt said:


> That's the same as the gz32 mullard their great sounding you'll really like what you here from that tube, you will also like as Badas said in his post -Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G. I think these are a must have tube I no longer use 6sn7's because these are soo much better sounding you'll need a pair of adapters to use these tube..







badas said:


> That's a great combo.
> 
> I have used any power tube. Tung-Sol /Chatham 6AS7G power tubes are nice. 6520 is the same.
> Brimar 5Z4GY Rectifier.
> Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G.


----------



## a1uc

Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G. Best place to buy ? Which would be best


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G. Best place to buy ? Which would be best



Tung sol 6c8gs are best and cheapest compared to 6f8gs. eBay is best bet around 100-140 a pair then need the adapters.


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G. Best place to buy ? Which would be best



http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=391247748923&globalID=EBAY-US

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321854887451&globalID=EBAY-US


----------



## abvolt

a1uc said:


> Tung-Sol Round plates 6C8G or 6F8G or the NU 6C8G or NU 6F8G. Best place to buy ? Which would be best


 
 Take a look at ebay I've seen some nu 6c8g's for like 70. they offer more gain also then the 6f8g's their sound is great..


----------



## 3083joe

sonictrance said:


> I did a little comparison of ECC35/33/32's here if you're interested
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/1995#post_11870779



Are these the same as the short brown base 35s you liked? 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=301731638670&globalID=EBAY-US


----------



## 3083joe

My short list (well not really, but as short as I could make it) these are in no particular order. 

1. Diana Krall - the girl in the other room
2. John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman
3. Frank Sinatra - September of my years
4. Louis Armstrong & duke Ellington - the great summit 
5. Elle Fitzgerald the duke Ellington songbook 
The small group sessions 
6. Nancy Wilson with cannonball adderley & George shearing. 
7. Ella swings gently with Nelson
8. Ella swings brightly with Nelson
9. Satchmo plays king Oliver
10. Louis Armstrong plays fats 
11. Duke Ellington and Johnny hodges side by side
12. Johnny hodges & earl Hines
13. Billy strayhorn & Johnny hodges - the Stanley dance sessions 
14. Gerry mulligan meets Johnny hodges
15. Count Basie & Sarah Vaughan
16. Ben Webster & Johnny hodges the complete cellar sessions


----------



## a1uc

Emission Labs 5U4GM  ?


----------



## a1uc

3083joe said:


> My short list (well not really, but as short as I could make it) these are in no particular order.
> 
> 1. Diana Krall - the girl in the other room
> 2. John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman
> ...





>





>





> you should check out Hugh Masekela


----------



## abvolt

a1uc said:


> Emission Labs 5U4GM  ?


 
 I'd stick with your mullards..


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> Emission Labs 5U4GM  ?



Agreed, stick with mullard


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=391247748923&globalID=EBAY-US
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321854887451&globalID=EBAY-US


 

 First auction is good as they are round plates.
  
 Second auction is over rated as they are flateplates and do not sound is great. The flat plate version Tung-Sol look to be a RCA make.


----------



## a1uc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GZ32-CV593-TUBES-NOS-/360172677862?hash=item53dbf6eae6
  
  
 bought them from here


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> First auction is good as they are round plates.
> 
> Second auction is over rated as they are flateplates and do not sound is great. The flat plate version Tung-Sol look to be a RCA make.


 
 any links for power tubes


----------



## a1uc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> First auction is good as they are round plates.
> 
> Second auction is over rated as they are flateplates and do not sound is great. The flat plate version Tung-Sol look to be a RCA make.


 
  
 First seems to be square plate also...?


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> My short list (well not really, but as short as I could make it) these are in no particular order.
> 
> 1. Diana Krall - the girl in the other room
> 2. John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman
> ...


 

 Thanks!
  
 From now on @3083joe is AKA "Jazzy Joe"


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> My short list (well not really, but as short as I could make it) these are in no particular order.
> 
> 1. Diana Krall - the girl in the other room
> 2. John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman
> ...


 

 Printed and I will start collecting over the next few months.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Printed and I will start collecting over the next few months.


 

 Did you finish listening to Let There Be Drums?
  
 I bought it a couple weeks back and have only listened to 1 of 3 from the set.  The recordings may not always be the best and the tracks are scattered all over, but (boy) can theses guys beat the skins!


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Did you finish listening to Let There Be Drums?
> 
> I bought it a couple weeks back and have only listened to 1 of 3 from the set.  The recordings may not always be the best and the tracks are scattered all over, but (boy) can theses guys beat the skins!


 

 I've listened to two of three. Loved them. A real nice surprise.


----------



## Aussie Lou

badas said:


> First auction is good as they are round plates.
> 
> Second auction is over rated as they are flateplates and do not sound is great. The flat plate version Tung-Sol look to be a RCA make.


 

 Can anyone help explain how to distinguish between round, square, and flat plates.


----------



## Badas

aussie lou said:


> Can anyone help explain how to distinguish between round, square, and flat plates.




Okay look at the plate structure. No other part of the tube such as micras etc.

Tung Sol Round plates have two tube looking plates in the middle of tube side by side and two attached flat plates going to the outer edge of the glass.




Tung Sol Flat plates have flat plates. Nothing is round. In the middle of the flat plate is a indentation that looks like a ladder. A very common structure used by RCA (sometimes Ken Rad) so that is why I suspect the flat plate Tung-Sols could be made by RCA. 







I have a Flat Plate RCA 6F8G set. Not a bad or terrible tube. I rank it the third best type of tube I own. It is not as nice as the TSRP or the NU. So in my opinion not worth the price of that TS flat plate auction.

Just link any auction here so we can look if you are unsure.


----------



## Aussie Lou

badas said:


> Okay look at the plate structure. No other part of the tube such as micras etc.
> 
> Tung Sol Round plates have two tube looking plates in the middle of tube side by side and two attached flat plates going to the outer edge of the glass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So the plates are the metal parts that extend from the top to the bottom of the tubes.
  
 I certainly see the curve shape of the RPTS's after reaching for a magnifying glass.


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> Question for wa22 owners
> If I'm coming out balanced 2 x xlr to my hd800
> Do I have to be coming in balanced on the back to get sound? As in 2 x xlr not rca?
> Thanks
> I'm fully balanced coming out of this


 
 Joe,
 If you supply a single ended signal to the amplifier it will do a phase split internally and will put out signal through the headphones XLR output but you will not be listening to a fully balanced system. In order to do that you will have to have a balanced source and input the signal through your amplifier XRL inputs.


----------



## a1uc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Tungsol-Round-Plate-6F8G-VT-99-tubes-/262033147765?hash=item3d02648775
  
  
  
 would these be a good choice for the WA22 ?


----------



## a1uc

This is the rest of my setup so I want to use some good tubes , but only if its going to improve 
  
 Woo Audio WA22
 Totaldac D1 Dual
 Totaldac D1 Server ...
 SSD NAS
 Belkin dedicated router
 (2) Paul Hynes SR5 Linear PSU to power the NAS & Router
 Uberbuss power filtering with all Furutech GTX (R)
 HD800
 Cardas Clear Dual 3 pin XLR
 Antipode Reference Cables


----------



## a1uc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-RCA-6F8G-VT-99-Tubes-Black-T-Plates-Foil-Getters-Tested-NOS-6-369-/231607514307?hash=item35ece234c3


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> Joe,
> If you supply a single ended signal to the amplifier it will do a phase split internally and will put out signal through the headphones XLR output but you will not be listening to a fully balanced system. In order to do that you will have to have a balanced source and input the signal through your amplifier XRL inputs.



Yeah. Right now I'm coming out rca into wa22 rca, I get no sound with 2x 3 pin xlr on the front.


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> Yeah. Right now I'm coming out rca into wa22 rca, I get no sound with 2x 3 pin xlr on the front.


 
 I just read the manual. The WA22 does not have phase conversion so in order to have output signal at the balanced outputs it needs a balanced input signal.
  
 from the manual FAQ:
*If I connect the WA22 with RCA interconnects, will the amp still provide a balanced signal to the balanced output? No, there is no RCA to Balanced conversion in this amp. A source with a true balanced output will work the best with the WA22. *
  
  So if you are feeding a single ended (RCA) signal at the input you only will only have signal out at the single ended output (TRS). In order to take full advantage of the amplifier you need a balanced output source.


----------



## MIKELAP

a1uc said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Tungsol-Round-Plate-6F8G-VT-99-tubes-/262033147765?hash=item3d02648775
> ...


 

 On the LANGREX site in common valve section Mullard 6080 are a bit cheaper, if they are the same tube i noticed tubes on Langrex site that i bought were cheaper than there site on Ebay


----------



## a1uc

I use these to convert since my mono blocks are single ended and I want to use the Balanced section of my DAC 
 they convert the signal the correct way


----------



## a1uc

mikelap said:


> On the LANGREX site in common valve section Mullard 6080 are a bit cheaper, if they are the same tube i noticed tubes on Langrex site that i bought were cheaper than there site on Ebay


 
 Seller Stated  " Exactly the same tube just slightly different print on these tubes and boxes "   Bought a pair  $88.46 shipped


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> I just read the manual. The WA22 does not have phase conversion so in order to have output signal at the balanced outputs it needs a balanced input signal.
> 
> from the manual FAQ:
> *If I connect the WA22 with RCA interconnects, will the amp still provide a balanced signal to the balanced output? No, there is no RCA to Balanced conversion in this amp. A source with a true balanced output will work the best with the WA22. *
> ...



That's what I thought. Thanks so much. Cables on the way.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

musicman59 said:


> I just read the manual. The WA22 does not have phase conversion so in order to have output signal at the balanced outputs it needs a balanced input signal.
> 
> from the manual FAQ:
> *If I connect the WA22 with RCA interconnects, will the amp still provide a balanced signal to the balanced output? No, there is no RCA to Balanced conversion in this amp. A source with a true balanced output will work the best with the WA22. *
> ...


 
  
 All WA22 manufactured after 10/28/2014 features a RCA to balanced converter internally. Sorry for the confusion. We will update the owner's manual today.


----------



## SonicTrance

3083joe said:


> Are these the same as the short brown base 35s you liked?
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=301731638670&globalID=EBAY-US


 
 Yeah, those are of same construction as the ones I got. Though mine are from 1948 and those were made in 1956. I'm sure they'll sound good though.


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> That's what I thought. Thanks so much. Cables on the way.


 
  
  


hifiguy528 said:


> All WA22 manufactured after 10/28/2014 features a RCA to balanced converter internally. Sorry for the confusion. We will update the owner's manual today.


 
  
 Thanks for the information Mike.
  
 Joe, Did you buy yours new from Woo or used? If you bought it used and is manufacture before 10/28/2014 then that's the issue but if is newer than 10/28/2014 manufacturing date then you probably should contact Mike or Jack.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> Thanks for the information Mike.
> 
> Joe, Did you buy yours new from Woo or used? If you bought it used and is manufacture before 10/28/2014 then that's the issue but if is newer than 10/28/2014 manufacturing date then you probably should contact Mike or Jack.



Brand new from woo last month.


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> Brand new from woo last month.


 
 Do you have the input selector switch on the back set for RCA input?
  If you do and no sound I would recommend send a PM to Mike (HiFiGuy528). He might be able to help you.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> Do you have the input selector switch on the back set for RCA input?
> If you do and no sound I would recommend send a PM to Mike (HiFiGuy528). He might be able to help you.


 

 Yes i do, no sound


----------



## devilboy

13713 said:


> Is this your first tube amp? If so welcome to the world of misery as you are now a member of the community forever on the quest for that "elusive" sound. Hopefully you will find it sooner than many of us as it is wallet and relationship destroying.


That's a big +1


----------



## 3083joe

@musicman59 
  
 I PMed
  
@HiFiGuy528 
  
 Thanks


----------



## devilboy

Still lmao on "wallet and relationship destroying".


----------



## 3083joe

devilboy said:


> Still lmao on "wallet and relationship destroying".


 

 lol!


----------



## a1uc

hifiguy528 said:


> All WA22 manufactured after 10/28/2014 features a RCA to balanced converter internally. Sorry for the confusion. We will update the owner's manual today.


 

 So  are you saying if using the early model one cant use RCA input and get any sound from none of the balanced outputs


hifiguy528 said:


> All WA22 manufactured after 10/28/2014 features a RCA to balanced converter internally. Sorry for the confusion. We will update the owner's manual today.


 

 So with the earlier WA22 one cant input RCA and get sound from any of the Bal outputs ? but the newer model you would get sound ?


----------



## 3083joe

Amazing album I just got


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> So  are you saying if using the early model one cant use RCA input and get any sound from none of the balanced outputs
> 
> So with the earlier WA22 one cant input RCA and get sound from any of the Bal outputs ? but the newer model you would get sound ?


 

 Not mine


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Not mine


 

 Yes you should but with less power as I recall.


----------



## a1uc

3083joe said:


> Not mine


 
 yours is current model correct ? and you still cant get sound from XLR outputs using the RCA inputs ?


----------



## Khragon

Even the older model would get sound when using RCA inputs, just not as good sound.


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-CV2984-MULLARD-NOS-BOXED-VALVE-TUBE-/311154206725?hash=item48723c6805
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Tungsol-Round-Plate-6F8G-VT-99-tubes-/262033147765?hash=item3d02648775
> ...


 

 Mullard. No. I have three sets from that supplier. All are noisy in the WA22.
  
 TSRP. Heck yes.


----------



## Badas

aussie lou said:


> So the plates are the metal parts that extend from the top to the bottom of the tubes.
> 
> I certainly see the curve shape of the RPTS's after reaching for a magnifying glass.


 

 Yip. You got it.
  
 Plates are verticle. Often black or grey.
 Micras are horizontal. Often silver or ceramic.


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> Mullard. No. I have three sets from that supplier. All are noisy in the WA22.
> 
> TSRP. Heck yes.


 
 Okay thanks for the warning , Im going to to listen to the unit stock for a week or so and then play with tubes


----------



## a1uc

khragon said:


> Even the older model would get sound when using RCA inputs, just not as good sound.


 
 RCA to balanced converter   so what is this feature really doing ?


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> RCA to balanced converter   so what is this feature really doing ?


 

 I thought it was leveling the sound between inputs. Not entirely sure.
  
 My WA22 has balanced and RCA plugged in.
  
 I get sound from the XLR. I have switched between both inputs and have never heard a difference. Balanced is a waste of time in my opinion. It was designed for long runs the length of a stadium. Not for short headphone cables. So sound should be not noticable. I just use RCA.
  
 On some amps like my HA-1 there is a power boost. But not a quality boost.


----------



## a1uc

I need balanced to take advantage of the Dac I use , I just don't get what the converter is doing if people are getting sound out of all outputs even using RCA


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> I need balanced to take advantage of the Dac I use , I just don't get what the converter is doing if people are getting sound out of all outputs even using RCA


 

 Yip. Mine is manufactured before that date and it has sound from all outputs when using RCA. All sound very similar also.
  
 I took this pic of my WA22 and twin Audeze last night. I reckon it just looks mean.


----------



## 2359glenn

a1uc said:


> RCA to balanced converter   so what is this feature really doing ?


 
 It is a phase inverter one signal in and a positive and negative out.
 Needed for push pull amps like the WA22. Your DAC is putting out a positive and negative signal output.
  
 I think the hole balanced thing is hype. And SE sounds better why have twice the number of parts the less the better the sound.
 And look Woos flagship amps are SE not balanced.
  
 Don't really get it there really is no such thing as a balanced headphone except electro stats.


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> yours is current model correct ? and you still cant get sound from XLR outputs using the RCA inputs ?



Correct


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Yip. Mine is manufactured before that date and it has sound from all outputs when using RCA. All sound very similar also.
> 
> I took this pic of my WA22 and twin Audeze last night. I reckon it just looks mean.



I don't get sound out with rca to balanced


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> I don't get sound out with rca to balanced


So you have to go balanced to balanced and RCA to RCA? Just axeing?


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> So you have to go balanced to balanced and RCA to RCA? Just axeing?



Don't have anything but rca interconnects on hand. So don't know.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I don't get sound out with rca to balanced


 

 This is getting confusing.
  
 So on mine I plug in RCA into the input and I can plug my HP's into the XLR (which I do as it is a better connection) and I get sound.
  
 You are saying yours doesn't in that configuration?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> This is getting confusing.
> 
> So on mine I plug in RCA into the input and I can plug my HP's into the XLR (which I do as it is a better connection) and I get sound.
> 
> You are saying yours doesn't in that configuration?



Correct but I don't have any xlr to use instead of rca to test. But I have no sound from rca in to xlr 3 pin x2 out


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Correct but I don't have any xlr to use instead of rca to test. But I have no sound from rca in to xlr 3 pin x2 out


 

 Weird.
  
 I don't use XLR 3 pin x 2 (It is utter BS). However I use XLR 4 pin just for a sturdy connection and it sounds fantastic.
  
 Listening to the first song from Ella Swings Gently. My first CD from your list. So far I like.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Weird.
> 
> I don't use XLR 3 pin x 2 (It is utter BS). However I use XLR 4 pin just for a sturdy connection and it sounds fantastic.
> 
> Listening to the first song from Ella Swings Gently. My first CD from your list. So far I like.



Might be my cable need to test it


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Might be my cable need to test it


 

 Something is not right.
  
 Ella was interesting. Lazt Sunday afternoon listening I think.
  
 Now listening to a local Kiwi girl (New Zealand) Mel Parsons. Damn. Instant fan.


----------



## musicman59

Joe,
 If you connect headphones to the single ended output do you have sound? If you do then it is not your RCA interconnects.
 Do you have a TRS plug to female 3 pin XLR (X2) adapter? If you do then use it to connect to the SE output. If you have sound then it is not your headphones balanced cable and the only option left is something with the amplifier.


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> Weird.
> 
> I don't use XLR 3 pin x 2 (It is utter BS). However I use XLR 4 pin just for a sturdy connection and it sounds fantastic.
> 
> Listening to the first song from Ella Swings Gently. My first CD from your list. So far I like.


 
 My issue is with my DAC ,I have to use the XLR outs other wise it wont take advantage of the 2 dac per channel . I then have to come out of the WA22 with 2x 3pin  or the 4 pin .


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Something is not right.
> 
> Ella was interesting. Lazt Sunday afternoon listening I think.
> 
> Now listening to a local Kiwi girl (New Zealand) Mel Parsons. Damn. Instant fan.



Never hear her.


----------



## MIKELAP

Found this awhile back


----------



## musicman59

mikelap said:


> Found this awhile back


 
 I don't agree with that. 
 In a balance amplification both the positive and the negative carry the same signal but the negative is phase inverted to create a push pull effect to control the voicecoil of the driver. In a single ended configuration the negative is just a ground not carrying any signal so you don't get the push pull effect therefore you loose all the advantages of the balanced amplification. On balance amplification the voicecoil is actually receiving double the power than in single ended.


----------



## tassardar

So I got my wa22 a week ago, just want to ask rolling which tube give me the best initial improvement ? Or is it a synergy issue and requires a whole set change ?


----------



## Badas

tassardar said:


> So I got my wa22 a week ago, just want to ask rolling which tube give me the best initial improvement ? Or is it a synergy issue and requires a whole set change ?


 
  
 This has always been my theory on rolling tubes on the WA22. Other amps probably not.
  
 Drive tubes effect the sound 55%
 Rectifier 30%
 Power tubes 15%
  
 So if you are asking me I would get a rectifier and good driver tubes. Power tubes can wait. If Woo is still using a GE 6080 then it is a good power tube.


----------



## abvolt

tassardar said:


> So I got my wa22 a week ago, just want to ask rolling which tube give me the best initial improvement ? Or is it a synergy issue and requires a whole set change ?


 
  
 If you've only had your wa22 for a week I would say it would be best to stay with the stock tube setup from Woo until you are very accustomed to it's stock sound, then when you do start rolling you'll really notice the change. I listened to mine stock for about the first 2 months it made rolling much more enjoyable because I noticed the change in sound right away but that's just my impressions, enjoy your new amp..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> If you've only had your wa22 for a week I would say it would be best to stay with the stock tube setup from Woo until you are very accustomed to it's stock sound, then when you do start rolling you'll really notice the change. I listened to mine stock for about the first 2 months it made rolling much more enjoyable because I noticed the change in sound right away but that's just my impressions, enjoy your new amp..



Very good advice.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Something is not right.
> 
> Ella was interesting. Lazt Sunday afternoon listening I think.
> 
> Now listening to a local *Kiwi girl (New Zealand)* Mel Parsons. Damn. Instant fan.


 
 I purchased Gin Wigmore (Gravel and Wine).  Listened to it once a while back,  like her voice/ style but I think the recording could use a little improvement on parts.  Will need to listen to it again.


----------



## ru4music

abvolt said:


> If you've only had your wa22 for a week I would say it would be best to stay with the stock tube setup from Woo until you are very accustomed to it's stock sound, then when you do start rolling you'll really notice the change. I listened to mine stock for about the first 2 months it made rolling much more enjoyable because I noticed the change in sound right away but that's just my impressions, enjoy your new amp..


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> Very good advice.


 

X2, X3


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> I purchased Gin Wigmore (Gravel and Wine).  Listened to it once a while back,  like her voice/ style but I think the recording could use a little improvement on parts.  Will need to listen to it again.


 

 Agreed. The recording could have been done better. Love the album tho.
  
 Reminds me of Adel. Both similar sounds. Both great albums. Both recorded badly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I bet you hear treble distortion??? (it is the recording).
  
 Gin is a hard case* girl (*Kiwi slang for mental). I've seen her in concert a few times. She is only about 5 foot tall, cute as button, heavily tattooed and swears like a druken sailor. Boy can she sing tho.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Agreed. The recording could have been done better. Love the album tho.
> 
> Reminds me of Adel. Both similar sounds. Both great albums. Both recorded badly.
> 
> ...


 

 Now that you mention it, I recall she sounded a little like Amy Winehouse as well.  That would fit your description pretty well!


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Now that you mention it, I recall she sounded a little like Amy Winehouse as well.  That would fit your description pretty well!


 

 Definitely.


----------



## tassardar

badas said:


> This has always been my theory on rolling tubes on the WA22. Other amps probably not.
> 
> Drive tubes effect the sound 55%
> 
> ...




Thanks! Will look at what tubes is available locally here.

And I checked, the 6080 is the GE tubes.


----------



## Khragon

Quote:


tassardar said:


> So I got my wa22 a week ago, just want to ask rolling which tube give me the best initial improvement ? Or is it a synergy issue and requires a whole set change ?


 
  


abvolt said:


> If you've only had your wa22 for a week I would say it would be best to stay with the stock tube setup from Woo until you are very accustomed to it's stock sound, then when you do start rolling you'll really notice the change. I listened to mine stock for about the first 2 months it made rolling much more enjoyable because I noticed the change in sound right away but that's just my impressions, enjoy your new amp..


 
  
 Nah... go all out and get a set of what seem to be universally accepted as the best, and save yourself the $$ and trouble:
  
 Rectifier: Western Electric 422A
 Powers: Western Electric 421A
 Drivers: Mullard ECC32, which I happen to have a pair for sale, wink wink.


----------



## Badas

tassardar said:


> Thanks! Will look at what tubes is available locally here.
> 
> And I checked, the 6080 is the GE tubes.




Stick with the stock GE6080 for a while. That is actually surprisingly a very nice sounding power tube. I'm actually using the GE6AS7G with the same internal construction right now. Only a slight difference in sound. It is my go to tube being a lot better than many others.


----------



## tassardar

So today I went to my local hifi shop. He recommended me a pair of RCA vt-231 since I told him I mainly listen to vocals. Went home, I plugged it in, my usual K701 felt a little too hot for me to appreciate. I swapped headphones and my H6 B&O is extremely enjoyable now. The vocals are like separated from the background and carried weight with a much cleaner sound compared to stock. It did lose some of its warmness and lack the energy at times hmm. Probably will look for a warm and quicker rectifier hmm.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

abvolt said:


> If you've only had your wa22 for a week I would say it would be best to stay with the stock tube setup from Woo until you are very accustomed to it's stock sound, then when you do start rolling you'll really notice the change. I listened to mine stock for about the first 2 months it made rolling much more enjoyable because I noticed the change in sound right away but that's just my impressions, enjoy your new amp..


 
  
 +1


----------



## longbowbbs

tassardar said:


> So today I went to my local hifi shop. He recommended me a pair of RCA vt-231 since I told him I mainly listen to vocals. Went home, I plugged it in, my usual K701 felt a little too hot for me to appreciate. I swapped headphones and my H6 B&O is extremely enjoyable now. The vocals are like separated from the background and carried weight with a much cleaner sound compared to stock. It did lose some of its warmness and lack the energy at times hmm. Probably will look for a warm and quicker rectifier hmm.


 
 I love the RCA VT-231's in my Cary SLI-80. Great tube!


----------



## a1uc

Has anyone here compared the Master 8-9 to the WA22


----------



## abvolt

khragon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Nah... go all out and get a set of what seem to be universally accepted as the best, and save yourself the $$ and trouble:
> ...


 
  
  
 What you think is good others may not it is highly subjective after all..


----------



## ru4music

khragon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Nah... go all out and get a set of what seem to be universally accepted as the best, and *save* yourself the $$ and trouble:
> ...


 
 Or rather *spend* yourself $$! lol


----------



## 3083joe

khragon said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Nah... go all out and get a set of what seem to be universally accepted as the best, and save yourself the $$ and trouble:
> ...


 

 I have to say, wish i would have done that from the start
 wasted 100s
 when i need these
 now am at WE422
 Mullard ecc32
 GEC 6as7
 best sound for the money


----------



## Shaffer

3083joe said:


> I have to say, wish i would have done that from the start
> wasted 100s
> when i need these
> now am at WE422
> ...




Which brings about the question, is it more optimal to outfit one's amp with killer tubes that may eclipse its cost, or simply buy a better amplifier?


----------



## 3083joe

shaffer said:


> Which brings about the question, is it more optimal to outfit one's amp with killer tubes that may eclipse its cost, or simply buy a better amplifier?


 

 Valid question, its the reason i went to the wa22 from wa6 but i don't think I'm going to get much better unless i go 300b and the wa5 is over priced now, i think
 Glenns amp is better decision i think  
  
 but its really an addiction and tube rolling is all part of it, no matter what amp you have or want


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Valid question, its the reason i went to the wa22 from wa6 but i don't think I'm going to get much better unless i go 300b and the wa5 is over priced now, i think
> Glenns amp is better decision i think
> 
> but its really an addiction and tube rolling is all part of it, no matter what amp you have or want


 

 All things being equal, a lower end 300b tube will sound better than the best 6as7 type tube on a given platform.  You really need to just do the math ($$).


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> All things being equal, a lower end 300b tube will sound better than the best 6as7 type tube on a given platform.  You really need to just do the math ($$).


 

 Completely agree, going there next but all in the fun of this hobby


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Completely agree, going there next but all in the fun of this hobby


 

 The 300b will likely be my path at some point as well!


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> The 300b will likely be my path at some point as well!


 

 Oh! Damn. I didn't want to go down the 300B path. But I can see it happening as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is always something bigger and better.


----------



## tassardar

Well from what I read there are amps from other makers that can go better without the 300B so all is good


----------



## ru4music

tassardar said:


> Well from what I read there are amps from other makers that can go better without the 300B *so all is good*


 
  
 Always!


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Always!







badas said:


> Oh! Damn. I didn't want to go down the 300B path. But I can see it happening as well. :rolleyes: There is always something bigger and better.



For the price of Glenn's maxed out 300b you can't touch anything else.


----------



## WooAudio

For people who is looking for a pair of 1k range headphones, the 2nd generation beyerdynamic T1 is worth considering. It is a step-up from the previous version in terms of performance and build quality. Also, the price has been dropped to $1099 from $1299. Get it before price goes up again.  
  
 http://wooaudio.com/headphones/beyerdynamic/t1.html
  
 Happy listening,
 Jack


----------



## Khragon

Very nice! thanks for letting us know.  Also removable cable bayer! finally!


----------



## Audiogalore

wooaudio said:


> For people who is looking for a pair of 1k range headphones, the 2nd generation beyerdynamic T1 is worth considering. It is a step-up from the previous version in terms of performance and build quality. Also, the price has been dropped to $1099 from $1299. Get it before price goes up again.
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/headphones/beyerdynamic/t1.html
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Jack for the info and must say I am impress with detachable cables Hifier can best match cable synergy. 
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## a1uc

Got it


----------



## Badas

^

Congrats. A great day when you have a new piece of kit.


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> Got it



Congrats.


----------



## jhljhl

a1uc said:


> Got it


 
  
 Nice - what kind of dac is that?


----------



## a1uc

Totaldac D1 Dual and D1 Server


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> Got it


 

 Woo-Hoo!  So is the MA-22 in your profile a typo or does it stand for "Maxed-out" WA-22?


----------



## ru4music

audiogalore said:


> Thanks Jack for the info and must say I am impress with detachable cables Hifier can best match cable synergy.
> 
> Enjoy music!


 

@Audiogalore, how would you compare the listening experience between the HD800 and the T-1?  I have both as well with UP-OCC cable upgrades and would place the HD800 well above the T-1.


----------



## a1uc

ru4music said:


> Woo-Hoo!  So is the MA-22 in your profile a typo or does it stand for "Maxed-out" WA-22?


 
 Thanks for the heads up


----------



## Audiogalore

ru4music said:


> @Audiogalore, how would you compare the listening experience between the HD800 and the T-1?  I have both as well with UP-OCC cable upgrades and would place the HD800 well above the T-1.


 
 Well that is a very subjective question and statement. Both are very good headphones that have different flavors when it comes to the listening and sound delivery.
  
 Source: PS Audio PWD and transport. 
  
 Amplifier: WA5
  
 WA5 gain set for high gain.
  
 T1 has a more balance frequency response thru out the music listening.
  
 HD 800 wider sound stage and hotter treble.
  
 My ears like the HD800 better for classical music and like the T1 more for smaller room music such as bar cafe type jazz and vocals especially female. 
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## a1uc

Okay for sure need to tame the highs ? Any ideas Using HD800


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> Okay for sure need to tame the highs ? Any ideas Using HD800



For me replacements cable helped lots 
Also the wa22 seemed very hot on treble at first but seems to get lots better as it burns in. 
Also there's a really simple mod with felt that looks to help. Have to find link


----------



## a1uc

I meant tubes , I have a Cardas clear cable  as for being broken in its a 2011 model


----------



## ru4music

audiogalore said:


> Well that is a very subjective question and statement. Both are very good headphones that have different flavors when it comes to the listening and sound delivery.
> 
> Source: PS Audio PWD and transport.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, my HD800s are my go to headphones and I need to start to leverage the T-1s so I was looking for a subjective opinion.


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> Okay for sure need to tame the highs ? Any ideas Using HD800


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> For me *replacements cable helped lots*
> Also the wa22 seemed very hot on treble at first but seems to get lots better as it burns in.
> Also there's a really *simple mod with felt that looks to help*. Have to find link


 
 +1
  
 haven't done the mode yet, but I'm seriously considering it!


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> *I meant tubes* , I have a Cardas clear cable  as for being broken in its a 2011 model


 
 Sorry, can't help with the sn7 driver types, but the hd800 mod could help.


----------



## a1uc

I will try some things thanks


----------



## koiloco

a1uc said:


> Okay for sure need to tame the highs ? Any ideas Using HD800


 
 If you haven't listened yet to the HD800, give it a try first.  You might like the treble the way it is.  If you don't, then mod it.
 I still run stock.  I listened to a modded HD800 of a friend.  I didn't like I would loose.  It's just my preference.


----------



## a1uc

I am listening to the HD800 stock


----------



## MIKELAP

koiloco said:


> a1uc said:
> 
> 
> > Okay for sure need to tame the highs ? Any ideas Using HD800
> ...


 

 Same here treble is not a factor but im no spring chicken either.


----------



## a1uc

Anyone got a pair of Tung Sol 6F8G / VT99 round plate they want to let go


----------



## abvolt

I just saw some on ebay..


----------



## a1uc

Tung sol round plate ? I just lost a new pair didn't see anymore


----------



## abvolt

Here's a pair..
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NATIONAL-UNION-6F8G-VT99-BLACK-ROUND-PLATE-40s-tubes-NOS-NIB-2pcs-/281780919788?hash=item419b739dec


----------



## a1uc

I might have to grab a pair of national since I don't see any tung sol


----------



## abvolt

They sound the same I have both and this guy ships really fast in fact i'm listening to a pair of his tubes right now their great..


----------



## abvolt

Any wa22 owners ever try a pair of 6CG7's just curious..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> Any wa22 owners ever try a pair of 6CG7's just curious..


 

 i am using in my Littledot MK3 a 6SN7 as power tubes with a 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter to bad its not the other way around would of tried it  found this on Ebay didnt know, yet another tube rolling possibility lol.  Thanks.


----------



## MIKELAP

Those brass adapters reminded me of a question i wanted to ask . Didnt somebody on this thread experience at one point interference with these adapters  because they were made of metal.


----------



## TonyNewman

mikelap said:


> Those brass adapters reminded me of a question i wanted to ask . Didnt somebody on this thread experience at one point interference with these adapters  because they were made of metal.


 
  
 Yep - won't work in my silver WA5 as it is a metal to metal contact.
  
 They work great in my Wa6 as they are on top of my 6DE7->6SN7 adapters. That prevents the metal to metal contact.
  
 Apart from the metal to metal issue, I found these to be good adapters to use. The caps have a nice tight grip that holds on quite well to the top of the 6F8G/6C8G tube.
  
 EDIT - my version is the 6SN7->6F8G/6C8G variety. Similar brass construction.


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> Any wa22 owners ever try a pair of 6CG7's just curious..


 

 I have - from a thread by Seamasters- suggestion.  They are nice "thinner" sounding then the 6sn7 I think a little but I like the sound.  The ecc804 is good too.  Gibosi wrote a post with several tubes that are compatible:
  


> Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
> 
> ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
> 
> ...


----------



## abvolt

These are the adapters I was looking at with the plastic base with a porcelain insert & a pair of tung sol's..


----------



## 3083joe

Looking for a set of Mullard ecc35 brown base of anyone comes across a set. 
Thanks


----------



## musicman59

3083joe said:


> Looking for a set of Mullard ecc35 brown base of anyone comes across a set.
> Thanks


 
 Did you check audiotubes.com?


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> Did you check audiotubes.com?



Found some at valvetubes.com but 500! But close matched pair nos beautiful. Just not sure I want to spend that.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Found some at valvetubes.com but 500! But close matched pair nos beautiful. Just not sure I want to spend that.


 

 Can you use those in a WA22?


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Can you use those in a WA22?



Ecc35?
Yes confirmed by woo


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Ecc35?
> Yes confirmed by woo


 

 Do you know if you can use an ecc31 with an adapter?


----------



## 3083joe

I know someone that has. Glenn said its a bad idea. I'll check with woo


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Do you know if you can use an ecc31 with an adapter?



I know someone that has. Glenn said its a bad idea. I'll check with woo


----------



## 3083joe

All British now and all brown base. 
GEC u52 
Mullard ecc32
GEC 6AS7G


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> All British now and all brown base.
> GEC u52
> Mullard ecc32
> GEC 6AS7G


 
  
 Congrats.
  
 I bet it sounds wonderful.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> *All British now* and all brown base.
> GEC u52
> Mullard ecc32
> GEC 6AS7G


 

 I thought we settled this topic with the Declaration of Independence back in 1776 (i.e. taxation tubation without representation), traitor! LOL


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Ecc35?
> ...


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


>


 

 awesome! worth it being the price is lots cheaper than nice set of 32s or 35s


----------



## HiFiGuy528

mikelap said:


>


 
  
 Our adapters are much much much higher quality. high grade teflon, CNC machined, pins and receptacles are oxygen free copper and they have high strength. You will not be disappointed. 
  
 example:


----------



## jhljhl

mikelap said:


>


 

 Great.  Anyone tried these tubes?


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Great.  Anyone tried these tubes?



I know a few that have and say very very similar to 32s


----------



## Brittonal

I just got a pair of Sylvannia 6SN7GTBs, the chrome domes with black angled t-plates and the green lettering.  I am trying them out now and I immediately want to go back to the 6DR7s that came in my WA6.  Now, I did notice they are pretty smooth, musical but seem to be very quiet and bass shy.  The limit for me on the WA6 with the 6DR7s is about 11-12 o'clock but with these I feel they are much more quiet at this range.  Do these start to open up alot more over time?  What is your experience?  I'm also using HD650s as my primary headphones at this time and thinking of getting a pair of DT880s and/or AKG701s.  Would these be better suited for those?


----------



## 3083joe

brittonal said:


> I just got a pair of Sylvannia 6SN7GTBs, the chrome domes with black angled t-plates and the green lettering.  I am trying them out now and I immediately want to go back to the 6DR7s that came in my WA6.  Now, I did notice they are pretty smooth, musical but seem to be very quiet and bass shy.  The limit for me on the WA6 with the 6DR7s is about 11-12 o'clock but with these I feel they are much more quiet at this range.  Do these start to open up alot more over time?  What is your experience?  I'm also using HD650s as my primary headphones at this time and thinking of getting a pair of DT880s and/or AKG701s.  Would these be better suited for those?



Yeah. Never personally impress with those tubes. 
Need you some 6f8gs


----------



## 3083joe

Quick first impressions 
U52 is more bassy and low. 
Also needs more volume 

We422a more air louder less base but wider 

Still early but nothing has touched the 422 since I started using it.
Ordered a cossor 53KU gz37 wide bottle so we will test these three 

Also a pair of Mullard ecc35s that are beautiful.


----------



## JamesBr

3083joe said:


> I know someone that has. Glenn said its a bad idea. I'll check with woo


 
 +1


----------



## SonicTrance

3083joe said:


> All British now and all brown base.
> GEC u52
> Mullard ecc32
> GEC 6AS7G


 
 Is that heavy silvering on top of the GEC's or do they have a top mounted getter? Never seen those.


----------



## Oskari

3083joe said:


>


 
  
 Sweet!
  


3083joe said:


> Ordered a cossor 53KU gz37 wide bottle so we will test these three


 
  
 Yes please. Do post photos. Tube porn at the highest level!


----------



## daverich4

3083joe said:


> Quick first impressions
> U52 is more bassy and low.
> Also needs more volume
> 
> ...




I started with the Sophia Princess, then the USAF 596 and finally the 422a. Since it went in nothing else has taken it's place of honor, front and center in my WA22.


----------



## jhljhl

daverich4 said:


> I started with the Sophia Princess, then the USAF 596 and finally the 422a. Since it went in nothing else has taken it's place of honor, front and center in my WA22.





Until you try a 274b.


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> Until you try a 274b.


 
  
 And then a TA274B...


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> daverich4 said:
> 
> 
> > I started with the Sophia Princess, then the USAF 596 and finally the 422a. Since it went in nothing else has taken it's place of honor, front and center in my WA22.
> ...


 

 274B beating a 422A na I don't think so.


----------



## kys

Hey guys, i'm not sure if this is the right place for this, i've got a WA6SE that i bought from jack back in 2009, and i was wondering if people nowadays were still interested in it?  I'm finding myself having to travel a lot and am thinking of moving toward more portable options.  If this isn't the right place to put something like this let me know.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> 274B beating a 422A na I don't think so.


 
  
 Have you tried them? I only have experience with the TA274B. The folks that I know have tried all 3 rank them as follows:
  
 1) TA274B
 2) WE274B
 3) WE422A


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > 274B beating a 422A na I don't think so.
> ...


 

 Of those I only tried the WE274B and WE422A and the 422A was better.
 Also electrically the 422 has less voltage drop then any direct heated rectifier.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kys said:


> Hey guys, i'm not sure if this is the right place for this, i've got a WA6SE that i bought from jack back in 2009, and i was wondering if people nowadays were still interested in it?  I'm finding myself having to travel a lot and am thinking of moving toward more portable options.  If this isn't the right place to put something like this let me know.


 
  
 At this time, there are no portable amp with desktop level performance. Stay tuned to our upcoming WA8. We're getting close to production. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736200/woo-audio-wa-8


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Until you try a 274b.



Yes. I need one. Just don't have it at the moment but I will. And hopefully I'll find a good price.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yes. I need one. Just don't have it at the moment but I will. And hopefully I'll find a good price.


 





 Yeah if you like the 422a I think you'll really enjoy the 274b.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> And then a TA274B... :wink_face:



And it's really cheaper than the we300b


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> Of those I only tried the WE274B and WE422A and the 422A was better.
> Also electrically the 422 has less voltage drop then any direct heated rectifier.



Would love to try the we274b but hate to pay that price and not get anything better than the 422


----------



## 3083joe

The GEC u52 has nothing on 422. 
Hands down.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> The GEC u52 has nothing on 422.
> Hands down.


 

 From what I gather I think you want a larger bolder dynamic sound - that's why I think you'd say that - not that the u52 is not so.  And so I think you are really going to like the WA5 or Glenns 300b based amps.
  
 The 274b does not make me want to "replace" the 422a - they are both very good. And the metal gz34.  These three are my favorites and the u52 pretty close too.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> From what I gather I think you want a larger bolder dynamic sound - that's why I think you'd say that - not that the u52 is not so.  And so I think you are really going to like the WA5 or Glenns 300b based amps.
> 
> The 274b does not make me want to "replace" the 422a - they are both very good. And the metal gz34.  These three are my favorites and the u52 pretty close too.



Might depend on the music you listen too. It definitely tames the highs on hd800s. But I feel it's dark. I Catch myself turning up the volume more and more


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Might depend on the music you listen too. It definitely tames the highs on hd800s. But I feel it's dark. I Catch myself turning up the volume more and more


 

 Yeah, I can see what you mean by that.  I think I read there are some who say the WA22 is "veiled" to begin with.  The 274b is a little less dark.  Has more air, more refined, a little more holographic and imaging.  But the general sound sig of the wa22 remains.  That's why I think I know what the wa5 sounds like though I have not heard it.  But I've heard everything else so I see where their product line is headed - to a bolder more dynamic sound - wider sound stage.  I'm thinking phil spector wall of sound metaphor - that's what I'm expecting.  I'm sure I'd enjoy it except the price has gone up quite a bit.


----------



## Krutsch

hifiguy528 said:


> At this time, there are no portable amp with desktop level performance. Stay tuned to our upcoming WA8. We're getting close to production.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I somehow completely missed this whole thread... wow, I am *so* in for this product. Sub'd and thanks for sharing.


----------



## Jeb Listens

The Takatsukis look wonderful. I'm wondering if I'll ever want to go down the 300B rabbit hole. Are there any published specs on the approx life expectancy of their 274 and 300Bs ?

The wooden boxes are so cool - not that that would be the prime consideration....


----------



## isquirrel

jeb listens said:


> The Takatsukis look wonderful. I'm wondering if I'll ever want to go down the 300B rabbit hole. Are there any published specs on the approx life expectancy of their 274 and 300Bs ?
> 
> The wooden boxes are so cool - not that that would be the prime consideration....


 

 If you look a few posts back you will find a post from myself on the expected life expectancy of the Takatsuki's assuming they have the same treatment as the 90's and earlier WE's. All of this is guess estimate as running head phone we are not stressing the 300B's anything like as much as you would in a typical speaker amp. IN summary its not unreasonable to think of 20,000 plus hours, the real everlasting tube is the Mullard Metal Base GZ34 I have seen those still running & testing well upwards of 100,000 hours hence the upfront cost is very reasonable on a running time basis.


----------



## isquirrel

Some nice tubes came in this week, all of them new with literally zero hours on them apart from testing, so much so that after running for a few hours and getting them hot I could see the splashes appearing on the top glass and mica's.
  
 A mint set of the Metal base 1957 vintage, a set of Sylvania 52 bad Boys and a set of Syl 45 Chrome Dome metal bases


----------



## Jeb Listens

isquirrel said:


> If you look a few posts back you will find a post from myself on the expected life expectancy of the Takatsuki's assuming they have the same treatment as the 90's and earlier WE's. All of this is guess estimate as running head phone we are not stressing the 300B's anything like as much as you would in a typical speaker amp. IN summary its not unreasonable to think of 20,000 plus hours, the real everlasting tube is the Mullard Metal Base GZ34 I have seen those still running & testing well upwards of 100,000 hours hence the upfront cost is very reasonable on a running time basis.


 

 Hi isquirrel - thanks for your thoughts on that and sorry for missing your previous post.  It does help put the initial outlay of cash in perspective.  A couple of hours listening per day seems like it would yield many many years of use.   I guess I could boil it down to a very reasonable per-day cost... if that would help me get over the line 
  
 After a quick googling I did today find a post on another audio forum from someone who said they had written to Takatsuki and were told the 300B life expectancy is 5,000 hours of normal use - so given the relatively light stress of a headphone amp your guesstimates might not be unreasonable. 
  
 Thanks again!  ^ Very nice looking tubes in your post above, by the way.
  
 Jeb.


----------



## Badas

^

Nice tubes Simon. I really like the looks of the Mullard.


----------



## Khragon

jeb listens said:


> After a quick googling I did today find a post on another audio forum from someone who said they had written to Takatsuki and were told the 300B life expectancy is 5,000 hours of normal use...




5000 hours is what my searches show as well. 5000 isn't much, assuming you have the amp turn on for 5 hours per day it's 1000 days, which is less than 3 years.


----------



## Jeb Listens

khragon said:


> 5000 hours is what my searches show as well. 5000 isn't much, assuming you have the amp turn on for 5 hours per day it's 1000 days, which is less than 3 years.


 

 Well, when you put it that way... it doesn't sound nearly so good!   Hopefully as isquirrel says using in the application of a headphone amp could yield a longer life expectancy.   At this point I'm way out of my depth as I'm not sure what kind of difference you could expect.


----------



## Khragon

jeb listens said:


> Well, when you put it that way... it doesn't sound nearly so good!   Hopefully as isquirrel says using in the application of a headphone amp could yield a longer life expectancy.   At this point I'm way out of my depth as I'm not sure what kind of difference you could expect.


 
 I am not an expert so can't comment too much, but I think a tube life expectancy is dependent on the amp filament voltage, bias voltage, etc.. instead of the loads.  It doesn't make a difference if you have music playing or not or having a load connected or not, as long as the amp is on you're counting down the hours for those tubes .  All this talk about life expectancy got me curious about my Elrog 300B, wonder what's the life expectancy for them, anyone know?  I can't find anything.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> I am not an expert so can't comment too much, but I think a tube life expectancy is dependent on the amp filament voltage, bias voltage, etc.. instead of the loads.  It doesn't make a difference if you have music playing or not or having a load connected or not, as long as the amp is on you're counting down the hours for those tubes .  All this talk about life expectancy got me curious about my Elrog 300B, wonder what's the life expectancy for them, anyone know?  I can't find anything.


 
  
 Yeah. The tubes are just as hot whether I have music playing or not...


----------



## Badas

I have a question relating to this topic.

Does a member know what we should be looking for or listening for when a tube or tubes are reaching their end life???

I don't know.

Do they just end up sounding worse? Lose power? Or just stop or blow up? Is there some signs?

I guess we just roll tubes to find out which tube or set of tubes are worn out as well.


----------



## ru4music

khragon said:


> I am not an expert so can't comment too much, but I think a tube life expectancy is dependent on the amp filament voltage, bias voltage, etc.. instead of the loads.  It doesn't make a difference if you have music playing or not or having a load connected or not, as long as the amp is on you're counting down the hours for those tubes .  All this talk about life expectancy got me curious about my Elrog 300B, wonder what's the life expectancy for them, anyone know?  I can't find anything.


 

 The life expectancy of a given tube can vary by the design and components of the amplifier.  For example, does the amp have soft/ delayed start capabilities?  One of the worst scenarios for a tube is to apply high voltage to the plate/ grids without the tube being fully warmed up.  Another example, are the filaments voltages slightly out of (+/-) tolerances?  Even a small variation can shorten the life of the tube which is designed to operate under certain temperature and current flows.  Does the tube contain a secondary (zirconium) getter?  A small amount of extraneous gas in a tube can lead to increased grid-to-plate currents resulting in a much shorter life span.  Etc...


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> I have a question relating to this topic.
> 
> Does a member know what we should be looking for or listening for when a tube or tubes are reaching their end life???
> 
> ...


 

 An EOL tube (i.e. one that doesn't succumb to premature failure) will have lower MU conductance and won't amplify as much (e.g. less gain).  However, it's been said that an audio vacuum tube sounds its best just before it dies.  Measurements from a tube tester is probably the best way!


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I have a question relating to this topic.
> 
> Does a member know what we should be looking for or listening for when a tube or tubes are reaching their end life???
> 
> ...



+1 
As I would like to know also.


----------



## Stereolab42

Am I still the only person on this thread with a mutual conductance tube tester? That's shameful considering there are plenty others with much bigger tube collections.


----------



## Khragon

I have a TV7 B/U, modified to read plate current similar to 539


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> +1
> As I would like to know also.


 

 Guys, this is a very open/ subjective issue!  The response entirely depends on the failure type (definition), and an existing tube working within a  given design/ engineering architecture.
  
 FWIW -"This question is bigger than a bread basket."
  
 Please enjoy the music, you'll know when it's time for a new tube... seriously... I hope. lol


----------



## a1uc

Ordered (4) Jupiter caps today for the WA22 , hope to swap them out next week


----------



## ru4music

stereolab42 said:


> Am I still the only person on this thread with a mutual conductance tube tester? That's shameful considering there are plenty others with much bigger tube collections.


 

 Yes!  I have a Hickok 6000 tube tester and that keeps things honest for me.  Bur many threaders here need to rely on the seller which (unfortunately the case) is not always the best solution.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> I have a question relating to this topic.
> 
> Does a member know what we should be looking for or listening for when a tube or tubes are reaching their end life???
> 
> ...


 

 I was using a Sophia Princess 274b it started making noise and also it was glowing very bright alot more than the newer tube i have also i had to turn up the volume more so i figured its was  probably going so back it went in the tube caddy ,cant throw art away lol.


----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> Am I still the only person on this thread with a mutual conductance tube tester? That's shameful considering there are plenty others with much bigger tube collections.


 
  
  
 Consider me shamed


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> I was using a Sophia Princess 274b it started making noise and also it was glowing very bright alot more than the newer tube i have also i had to turn up the volume more so i figured its was  probably going so back it went in the tube caddy ,cant throw art aw


 
 Making noise and glowing more brightly (for a rectifier, or any tube) is not a good sign.  At the very least,  It means the tube or amplifier is driven to an out-of-spec scenario.  If you replace tubes and that situation goes away, then likely you have a bad tube and/ or a tube that is being operated outside it's design spec.
  
 My 2Cents!  YMMV (but I doubt it!)


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> Consider me shamed



Me too......


----------



## ru4music

isquirrel said:


> Consider me shamed


 

 You Sir are shamed!  Hope that makes you feel better.


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> Ordered (4) Jupiter caps today for the WA22 , hope to swap them out next week


 

 I would think they should present an perceivable improvement once broken-in.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Me too......


 

 No one should be shamed; but you honestly may want to consider a tube tester going forward.  Then again, maybe not, as you may need to dive deeper into electronic/ electrical engineering.  Sometimes ignorance is bliss, trust your ears as they are the ultimate deciding factor.


----------



## isquirrel

ru4music said:


> You Sir are shamed!  Hope that makes you feel better.


 

 Being English it makes me feel feel quite naughty actually


----------



## isquirrel

I have a good elderly friend who lives about 2 hours from me in the West, he has an array of good tube testing equipment, so I am not exactly stuck for resources, love the wise old men who know how to test & calibrate properly


----------



## ru4music

isquirrel said:


> Being English it makes me feel feel quite naughty actually


 

 If I understand my "across the pond" terminology: "You're a dirty bird!"


----------



## ru4music

isquirrel said:


> I have a good elderly friend who lives about 2 hours from me in the West, he has an array of good tube testing equipment, so I am not exactly stuck for resources, love the wise old men who know how to test & calibrate properly


 

 Always a good resource to keep open and available (beginning to become a lost art!)


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> I would think they should present an perceivable improvement once broken-in.



Hmmmmmm....


----------



## a1uc

ru4music said:


> I would think they should present an perceivable improvement once broken-in.




I'm sure it will make a very noticeable diffrence , I will post once it's done


----------



## MIKELAP

In case anybody is interested ,this from Woo


----------



## tassardar

Changed my tube on my WA22 again. Now its VT231 Sylvania drivers and RCA 5u4g. Really nice mids, smoothness and airy.


----------



## a1uc

Im using a CV593  since I had 2 new ones tucked away , also a pair of CV6080  just need to decide on Driver Tubes


----------



## 3083joe

New album and very excellent 
Holiday - Webster - Edison


----------



## abvolt

I agree Billie Holiday was absolutely great, old school jazz I love it..


----------



## jhljhl

So far from these threads it seems the ecc31 (by adapter) and ecc35 are compatible with the wa22.  Anyone else know of other tubes?


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> So far from these threads it seems the ecc31 (by adapter) and ecc35 are compatible with the wa22.  Anyone else know of other tubes?



Correct
31,32,33,35 all are.
Oh and probably the 34s I'm going to check.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Correct
> 31,32,33,35 all are.
> Oh and probably the 34s I'm going to check.


 
  
 Interesting.  Geez I didn't even know there was an ecc34.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Interesting.  Geez I didn't even know there was an ecc34.



Yep. 
Have a set of 35, will be here tomorrow 
Getting the 31 and 33s soon. Maybe 34s after if they work. Do a comparison test with all the ecc3x tubes
34 below


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yep.
> Have a set of 35, will be here tomorrow
> Getting the 31 and 33s soon. Maybe 34s after if they work. Do a comparison test with all the ecc3x tubes
> 34 below


 
  
 Do you have a set of the Tung-Sol Round plates or NU 6F8G's?
  
 If so how do they compare to the Mullards?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Do you have a set of the Tung-Sol Round plates or NU 6F8G's?
> 
> If so how do they compare to the Mullards?



I have both but I really like the Mullard ecc32s. 
Haven't tried any of the others yet. 
I don't think that the cost of the mullards 500+ (Except the 31s are cheaper around 200 ) is very justified but I wasn't to happy with the nu! the TSRP 6f8 are great but 32s just seem smoother. Less harsh highs. More holographic. 
When I get the 31s I'll let you know my thoughts. 
I hear they are very very similar to the 32s for less than half the price. Just need the adapter.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We can't wait to show you the finished product! Upcoming WA8.


----------



## jhljhl

The GEC 6as7g is really nice in the wa2. Warm but detailed and airy.   I prefer slightly the WE 421a in the wa22 for the extra power.
  
 These have an excellent reputation for a reason now I see.


----------



## Krutsch

jhljhl said:


> The GEC 6as7g is really nice in the wa2. Warm but detailed and airy.   I prefer slightly the WE 421a in the wa22 for the extra power.
> 
> These have an excellent reputation for a reason now I see.


 

 I am underwhelmed by the GEC 6AS7g in the WA3. Maybe the experience is different with the WA2.
  
 I *will* retry with each of the two I own, to give them more time, but I've gone back to the WE421a to enjoy the pile of new music I've acquired.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> The GEC 6as7g is really nice in the wa2. Warm but detailed and airy.   I prefer slightly the WE 421a in the wa22 for the extra power.
> 
> These have an excellent reputation for a reason now I see.



Yes. I agree on the air. But I really want to try a set of 421s


----------



## 3083joe

Just so everyone knows 

"Hi Joe,

Hope you had a great weekend. Yes, ECC34 can be used on the WA22 directly.

~ Mike Liang"


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Just so everyone knows
> 
> "Hi Joe,
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks nice to know. I'm looking forward to your impressions of the other ecc__ tubes like the ecc31.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Just so everyone knows
> 
> "Hi Joe,
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jhljhl said:


> Thanks nice to know. I'm looking forward to your impressions of the other ecc__ tubes like the ecc31.


 
  
 Agreed. You are real asset dude.
  
 I can't believe the caliber of great tubes you have collected in such a short time of having the WA22.


----------



## abvolt

agree i'm envious too, happy listening *3083joe*..


----------



## Contrails

So, I seem to be going the other way around, get the tubes first, then amp then headphones. I just picked up a 596 Rectifier manufactured by Bendix for $300. Got a matched pair of Mullard/Brimar cv1988 on their way, hear these are lush tubes to listen to. Got 7236, 5998, Bendix 6080, RCA 6as7g... sitting at home. Hmmm, Wa22 is in the sights. If I can find an used one, even better along with the Lcd-3f or X. 

Anyway, I would need an adapter for the 596. Can someone please direct me towards a good adapter for the 596 to play into the Wa22? Not to keen on eBay ones.


----------



## 3083joe

contrails said:


> So, I seem to be going the other way around, get the tubes first, then amp then headphones. I just picked up a 596 Rectifier manufactured by Bendix for $300. Got a matched pair of Mullard/Brimar cv1988 on their way, hear these are lush tubes to listen to. Got 7236, 5998, Bendix 6080, RCA 6as7g... sitting at home. Hmmm, Wa22 is in the sights. If I can find an used one, even better along with the Lcd-3f or X.
> 
> Anyway, I would need an adapter for the 596. Can someone please direct me towards a good adapter for the 596 to play into the Wa22? Not to keen on eBay ones.



Nice. Will be straight with wa22 is there 

Talk to 2359glenn he is the man for the adapters.


----------



## 3083joe

Tube Porn


----------



## Badas

Ooooooooo! You got the Thomson 6080 before me.
  
 I can't wait for givin that tube a blast.
  
 Speakin of tube porn. I took this pic this morning with my fake Mullard logo labels. Tubes are Mullards. I just like the labels facing forward.
  

  
 Checked out when I got my WA22. It is one year old now. Time flies. Very happy with the sound from this tube arrangement.


----------



## jhljhl

^^^  dang. nice tubes!  I wonder about those thomson 6080 - french made as I recall.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> ^^^  dang. nice tubes!  I wonder about those thomson 6080 - french made as I recall.



Yes will try all this week and get back to everyone. 
Thomson - yes French. My dealer told me to try them that I may be presently surprised. 
As for now I'm trying the cossor gz37 fat bottle and wow so much air, holographic, might give the 422 a run for the money. Also has more low end and nice mids. More testing to come.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Ooooooooo! You got the Thomson 6080 before me.
> 
> I can't wait for givin that tube a blast.
> 
> ...



Very nice!!! A work of art, beautiful!


----------



## 3083joe

Might have a good connection for Mullard 6080s matched $60 each.


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Tube Porn


 
  
 Nice collection of glass... By the way, what are those white rings around the driver/power tubes?


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Nice collection of glass... By the way, what are those white rings around the driver/power tubes?



Just rubber dampers


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Just rubber dampers


 

 No heat issues?


----------



## Aussie Lou

badas said:


> Ooooooooo! You got the Thomson 6080 before me.
> 
> I can't wait for givin that tube a blast.
> 
> ...


 
  
 B..... remarkable!
  
 You may have a label venture happening D.


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> No heat issues?



No.


----------



## 3083joe

Very excellent Ellington album. Maybe the best he has


----------



## Contrails

I just finished auditioning Lcd-x and Lcd-3f and I am SOLD IN BOLD on the X! I walked in thinking I would not like the X and initially I didn't. Well, the soundstage seemed all muddled up. Then I checked the connectors and the store had them connected the L with the R cups and vice versa. But after fixing that, WOW! I switched to Lcd-3f and played the same songs but I just kept going back to the X! If I was to describe it, the 3f make me tap my feet but I tend to get distracted a bit, but with the X, I am sitting there on the edge of my seat, fully concentrated on the music, the notes just flowing and blowing me away. My current headphones are Lcd2.2 and before I owned the He500, so pretty modest experience. But I am done! 

Now this being a Woo audio thread... WA22 + Lcd sex with Audio-Gd NFB-1 Dac. I am seeing the end, finally! Haha, famous last words.


----------



## whirlwind

krutsch said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Tube Porn
> ...


 
 Are those woo socket savers or tube monger socket savers ?


----------



## pervysage

What would be the best sounding & most synergetic pairing Woo amp for the HD800? (under $2000). The WA22? Something that won't make the HD800 overly bright and provide some nice bass response.


----------



## Badas

pervysage said:


> What would be the best sounding & most synergetic pairing Woo amp for the HD800? (under $2000). The WA22? Something that won't make the HD800 overly bright and provide some nice bass response.


 

 I listened to a modified HD800 on my WA22 (NOS tubes). The combo blew me away.
  
 I thought the WA22 would not have the power for the HD800. It does. It really made the HD800 sing.
  
 A very nice combo.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I listened to a modified HD800 on my WA22 (NOS tubes). The combo blew me away.
> 
> I thought the WA22 would not have the power for the HD800. It does. It really made the HD800 sing.
> 
> A very nice combo.


 
  
 +1 on that. I heard the same thing - really good from the WA22. Not quite as good as from the WA5, but it was close - a lot closer than I expected.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> pervysage said:
> 
> 
> > What would be the best sounding & most synergetic pairing Woo amp for the HD800? (under $2000). The WA22? Something that won't make the HD800 overly bright and provide some nice bass response.
> ...


 

 Sampled a pair of ECC31 on WA22 with an RCA 5V4G rectifier and a pair of 6AS7G Chathams  plenty of bass there with a stock HD800


----------



## pervysage

Does anyone know if the WA22 can still run fully balanced even with a single ended DAC source? I read something about the newer WA22's now having transformers for this purpose.


----------



## a1uc

Whats a good tube to get some bass slam out of the WA22 , seems weak


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> Whats a good tube to get some bass slam out of the WA22 , seems weak


 

 What HP are you using?


----------



## MIKELAP

a1uc said:


> Whats a good tube to get some bass slam out of the WA22 , seems weak


 

 Just today was listening to this combo Chatham 6AS7G ,ECC31and a RCA 5V4G as rectifier lots of bass that's with a pair of Senns HD800


----------



## Stereolab42

pervysage said:


> Does anyone know if the WA22 can still run fully balanced even with a single ended DAC source? I read something about the newer WA22's now having transformers for this purpose.


 
  
 It has an internal phase splitter than turns the single-ended RCA signals into balanced signals, yes. But that "counts" as extra processing, and the reason you're paying so much for these wonderful analog amps is because you value simplicity right? IMHO I wouldn't buy a WA22 if you don't have a balanced DAC.


----------



## abvolt

mikelap said:


> Just today was listening to this combo Chatham 6AS7G ,ECC31and a RCA 5V4G as rectifier lots of bass that's with a pair of Senns HD800


 
  
 I'll bet that's an excellent combo, how do you like the ecc31's been thinking of getting a pair..


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> What HP are you using?






HD800


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> HD800


 
  
 Well. There is a lack of bass there. Not trying to be rude (or maybe I just have, sorry) but the bass does dive off on the HD800.
  
 In my experience these power tubes offered the best bass:
  
 7236 - Plenty of it but not clean
 RCA 6AS7G - Lots of bass but treble rolled
 Bendix 6080 - Probably one of the best
 Russian 6N13 - heaps of bass but not nice in other areas.
 RCA 6080 - Same as 6AS7G. Lots of bass but a little treble rolled
 Mullard - Great tube. Lots of everything
  
 Thomson 6080 and GEC 6080 on the way but not trialed.
  
 TS 5998 and GEC 6AS7G not tried but are suppose to be great.
  
 Team these up with the Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier and you should get lots of bass. Avoid Sylvania drivers (stock tubes). They are lean on bass.


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Just today was listening to this combo Chatham 6AS7G ,ECC31and a RCA 5V4G as rectifier lots of bass that's with a pair of Senns HD800
> ...


 
 They do sound good one pair i like more than the other in the very short time ive been listening to them .they have more bass quantity than the other pair will try with other rectifiers to see if that bass is inherant to the 5V4G tube or not im using the pair im talking about  is picture #1 but both pair sound nice but dont pay crazy money for them  .   ill put more hours on them and see what happens                                                                                             #1


----------



## Badas

Got some power tubes for the WA22 today.



5 sets of the GE 6AS7G. I like this tube so I want some stock.

A set of the Thomson 6080 to trial. A strange tube. Look at the size of the box for such a small tube. I got three and all three are different heights. All have the same internals and date codes. I guess the French didn't care about uniformity. I purchased two and the seller sent three. Nice. These will be first to be rolled in.

Finially a set of the GEC 6080. I've always wanted to try the GEC 6AS7G just I couldn't get a set in my price range. So I thought I would give the 6080 a try. Evidently the 6AS7G and 6080 are close.


----------



## daverich4

a1uc said:


> Whats a good tube to get some bass slam out of the WA22 , seems weak




TS 5998 made the most noticeable improvement in my WA22/HD 800 combination but my ultimate solution to more bass was a pair of LCD3-Fs.


----------



## a1uc

4 notch Mullard 5AR4 Really made a big improvement over the CV593


----------



## Contrails

Ladies and gents, need your advice on tubes for the WA22 and LCD-x. I haven't picked up the amp yet but slowly collecting the tubes for the when the times comes. Rectifier duties are set to 596, drivers are Brimar cv1988 brown base, power tubes are 7236 and 5998. I am going for a more solid state, fast sound with a bit of lush and slight more Bass impact. Dac is going to be Nfb-1 (ES9018). I am heading in the right direction for tube choices and especially rectifier or should I be looking at gz34/u52?


----------



## pervysage

If ordering a WA22, would you guys recommend any of the upgrade tubes that Woo has for sale or is one better off doing some research and finding tubes elsewhere online?


----------



## jhljhl

contrails said:


> Ladies and gents, need your advice on tubes for the WA22 and LCD-x. I haven't picked up the amp yet but slowly collecting the tubes for the when the times comes. Rectifier duties are set to 596, drivers are Brimar cv1988 brown base, power tubes are 7236 and 5998. I am going for a more solid state, fast sound with a bit of lush and slight more Bass impact. Dac is going to be Nfb-1 (ES9018). I am heading in the right direction for tube choices and especially rectifier or should I be looking at gz34/u52?


 
 You might even go for a black base mullard 5ar4.  Metal 5ar4 can be good too.  WE274b and WE422a will get you a more ideal tube sound. 
  


pervysage said:


> If ordering a WA22, would you guys recommend any of the upgrade tubes that Woo has for sale or is one better off doing some research and finding tubes elsewhere online?


 
 Sourcing yourself is not too difficult see Contrails quote above.


----------



## 3083joe

pervysage said:


> What would be the best sounding & most synergetic pairing Woo amp for the HD800? (under $2000). The WA22? Something that won't make the HD800 overly bright and provide some nice bass response.


 

 I don't know that the wa22 is best. I might say the wa2 but it preference. I have wa22 with hd800 tho


----------



## 3083joe

pervysage said:


> If ordering a WA22, would you guys recommend any of the upgrade tubes that Woo has for sale or is one better off doing some research and finding tubes elsewhere online?


 

 Contact Kef at valvetubes.com


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

To Woo WES Owners with Stax 009's or 507's,
  
 Is there a noticeable improvement to sound with Woo Audio maxxed internal upgrades and upgraded tubes i.e.  Shugang 50 Years Treasure 6CA7 and Full Music 6SL7 ?   
  
 Any idea of comparison to the sound compared to a BHSE, KGSSHV & KGST ?
  
 Comparison of 009's vs He90's with WES ?


----------



## MIKELAP

Been playing around lately with a few new tube types  all using one adapter the ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter  those tubes are 6N7, ECC31,1635.   ECC31 being the better sounding tube with added bass with the right combo , but his also the most expensive so shop around for a decent price  because prices are indecent  other tubes can be had for little money. These tubes used with my WA22  along with Senns HD800


----------



## Badas

^
  
 The last one (RCA) is interesting. Similar looking plates to the Tung-Sol roundplates.


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> Been playing around lately with a few new tube types  all using one adapter the ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter  those tubes are 6N7, ECC31,1635.   ECC31 being the better sounding tube with added bass with the right combo , but his also the most expensive so shop around for a decent price  because prices are indecent  other tubes can be had for little money. These tubes used with my WA22  along with Senns HD800



Just ordered a set of ecc31s


----------



## Shaffer

3083joe said:


> Just ordered a set of ecc31s




Congrats! 

Stop by the Elise thread and you'll hear about all kinds of tubes, too.


----------



## 3083joe

Now to find a good set of ecc33 and 34s without selling an organ.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Now to find a good set of ecc33 and 34s without selling an organ.


 

 I saw your NU 6F8g's for sale on eSlay.
  
 You didn't like those suckers?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I saw your NU 6F8g's for sale on eSlay.
> 
> You didn't like those suckers?



Yes I enjoyed them but not compared to the Mullard ecc3x 
Have the 32s 35s and 31s on the way. 
Got to get rid of some of these tubes I don't use


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yes I enjoyed them but not compared to the Mullard ecc3x
> Have the 32s 35s and 31s on the way.
> *Got to get rid of some of these tubes I don't use*


 

 I hear ya.


----------



## fotomeow

hifiguy528 said:


> We can't wait to show you the finished product! Upcoming WA8.




wow! looks awesome, can't wait to get my hands on one


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We made a custom switch box that won't degrade the sound. what ya think?
  
 If anyone here wants one send us a note info@wooaudio.com


----------



## HiFiGuy528

fotomeow said:


> wow! looks awesome, can't wait to get my hands on one


 
  
 Yeah, wait till you hear it.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yes I enjoyed them but not compared to the Mullard ecc3x
> Have the 32s 35s and 31s on the way.
> Got to get rid of some of these tubes I don't use


 

 If ecc35 can be used = 6sl7?


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> If ecc35 can be used = 6sl7?



Yes that is correct. Either one


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yes that is correct. Either one


 

 Great so that opens the door to the US brands...


----------



## a1uc

Ordered  a new Furutech Gold IEC and Furutech fuse should be here next week


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Great so that opens the door to the US brands...



Correct. Mil spec vt229 s are great. Just had a set of nu in mine and then I sold them. But they sound great.


----------



## a1uc

Got a Quad  on the way also


----------



## jhljhl

a1uc said:


> Ordered  a new Furutech Gold IEC and Furutech fuse should be here next week


 

 You put in those Jupiter caps?  How they sound?


----------



## jhljhl

a1uc said:


> Got a Quad  on the way also


 
 Do these sound like the ts 6f8g?


----------



## a1uc

I wont have time to listen till morning to the cap upgrade , as for the new tubes they wont be here till next week


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Do these sound like the ts 6f8g?



If they are round plates.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> If they are round plates.


 
  
 I guess I'm wondering if they sound the _same_ or they sound _like_ them.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I guess I'm wondering if they sound the _same_ or they sound _like_ them.



6sn7
6sl7
6f8g 
TSRP
All sound the same to me. 
And I hear the 12sn7 as well.


----------



## 3083joe

Ok. 
So after the first few days I have to say the short brown base ecc35s sound better to my ears then the ecc32. 
There's more air, clarity, wider soundstage I think. 
I also believe there's a little more warmth on mid range. (Which I like). Lows also are more peonounced or noticeable. 
I will continue to listen and post what my thoughts are. 
31s will be here probably in 2 weeks and I'll throw them in the mix. Also looking for 34s. 
Moving on to the 6080/6as7s too


----------



## Aussie Lou

Joe, will the same adapter allow for ECC31, 32, 33 and 35's for use in the WA22 or are separate adapters required?


----------



## Krutsch

hifiguy528 said:


> We made a custom switch box that won't degrade the sound. what ya think?
> 
> If anyone here wants one send us a note info@wooaudio.com


 
  
 Wow... elegant looking and probably completely transparent. I would've been all over this a couple of months ago, but I ended up buying an NAD C 162 Preamp for just this purpose - found a great deal on eBay, and it has a nice phone input as a bonus.
  
 Just curious... how much?


----------



## Jeb Listens

hifiguy528 said:


> We made a custom switch box that won't degrade the sound. what ya think?
> 
> If anyone here wants one send us a note info@wooaudio.com


 
  
  
 ^ Yes very cool - looks to be very high quality RCAs.    Looks great !   Will probably need one a little bit further down the line  & there's always people asking on the forums about switch boxes like these. 
  
 Could it be used the other way round too for 1 x input to 3 x output ?   Also, does it come in silver ?


----------



## SonicTrance

aussie lou said:


> Joe, will the same adapter allow for ECC31, 32, 33 and 35's for use in the WA22 or are separate adapters required?




I'm not Joe, but you'll only need adapters for the ECC31's. The rest are plug n play


----------



## Aussie Lou

Thanks sir!


----------



## 3083joe

sonictrance said:


> I'm not Joe, but you'll only need adapters for the ECC31's. The rest are plug n play



Correct. 31 is the only one.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

a1uc said:


> Whats a good tube to get some bass slam out of the WA22 , seems weak




it is weak 

tube rolling only helps a bit


----------



## 3083joe

dubstep girl said:


> it is weak
> 
> tube rolling only helps a bit



I think the cossor fat bottle gz37 helps lots. 
Or for a cheaper option mullard gz32 
Ecc35s helped some too. But the price might not be worth it for you.


----------



## jhljhl

dubstep girl said:


> it is weak
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think I read on another thread that the black glass ken-rad 6sn7 VT231 tubes have richer bass. 
  
 Also - power will increase with 7236 and 5998 tubes.
  
 But overall bass slam the likes of a ss such as cavalli liquid gold amp or through orthodynamics I don't see happening - if you use an hd800.


----------



## jhljhl

I've noticed no one has mentioned much the 6922 tubes.  They are a little more delicate sounding than the 6sn7.  But this seems to be suited to the lcd-3f with the wa22.


----------



## isquirrel

a1uc said:


> Got a Quad  on the way also


 

 Very clean TSRP's may I ask did you get them off EBay? or another supplier? Did they have the original boxes?


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> Ordered  a new Furutech Gold IEC and Furutech fuse should be here next week


 

 Are those the coupling and bypass caps you replaced?


----------



## isquirrel

Guys apologies if this is a Noob question or has been covered elsewhere but can I run a ECC33 driver tube without any mods or adapters?
  
 Does anyone have any experience with these, I have been offered some Mullard ones.


----------



## abvolt

ECC33 is equal to a 6SN7GT


----------



## isquirrel

Thanks is it exactly the same electrically ? I thought there was a difference


----------



## abvolt

I know the ecc33 has a higher mu amplification then the 6sn7's plate voltage is the same I was thinking of giving the mullard ecc33's a try but too pricey for my taste..


----------



## a1uc

ru4music said:


> Are those the coupling and bypass caps you replaced?
> 
> 
> coupling caps. Replacing the bypass caps won't do nothin.. All that is needed
> ...


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> ru4music said:
> 
> 
> > Are those the coupling and bypass caps you replaced?
> ...


 

 OK, makes sense.  I counted two caps per tube and forgot the WA22 is using the 6080 (twin triode) for output.  Does the WA22 use a DC blocking cap on the 6sn7 inputs?  Might be room for improvement there also.


----------



## a1uc

Pretty sure they are direct coupled


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Classic WA5-LE vs. new WA5-LE reviewed.
  
 http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## a1uc

Private sale , don't know on boxes dint get them yet . I should see them next week


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> I know the ecc33 has a higher mu amplification then the 6sn7's plate voltage is the same I was thinking of giving the mullard ecc33's a try but too pricey for my taste..



Ecc31s with adapter is better price. Will have a set soon and let everyone know how they sound.


----------



## 3083joe

Ecc35s are my favorite right now


----------



## Audiogalore

hifiguy528 said:


> Classic WA5-LE vs. new WA5-LE reviewed.
> 
> http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/


 
 Very nice improvements. Feature that turns into good value and benefits.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Khragon

Really!!! $1000 price hike, $3700 base and the WA5 LE can't have it own faceplate without the SPK label?? You guys have to put a stop to prevent the switch going to that setting. Talk about cheap.


----------



## Audiogalore

khragon said:


> Really!!! $1000 price hike, $3700 base and the WA5 LE can't have it own faceplate without the SPK label?? You guys have to put a stop to prevent the switch going to that setting. Talk about cheap.


 
 Okay I understand your point, but analyzing the true value of the original WA5/LE they were given away. When compared to other so call high end manufactures they would have sold them for two maybe three times the price.
  
 Where could or can you have been able to get the built quality at these prices.  They are custom built like a tank with the finest selection of materials and point to point wiring to explicit detail. So again when I say value with features which ultimately turn/relate to benefits and merely knowing that us consumer such as myself of the product have been given a fantastic 300b amp relatively a give away at Woo's expense!
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> Ecc35s are my favorite right now


 
 Does those require an adapter to use thanks joe..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Does those require an adapter to use thanks joe..



No sir
None of the ecc3x take adapters except the 31s


----------



## abvolt

Thank you..


----------



## Badas

audiogalore said:


> Okay I understand your point, but analyzing the true value of the original WA5/LE they were given away. When compared to other so call high end manufactures they would have sold them for *two maybe three times the price*.
> 
> Where could or can you have been able to get the built quality at these prices.  They are custom built like a tank with the finest selection of materials and point to point wiring to explicit detail. So again when I say value with features which ultimately turn/relate to benefits and merely knowing that us consumer such as myself of the product have been given a fantastic 300b amp relatively a give away at Woo's expense!
> 
> Enjoy music!


 
  






 Woo charges enough for their amps. There is some competition now.
  
 I often think they are being cheeky with their pricing.
 $16K for a WA234. Really??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is only a 300B and 6SN7 tube amp.


----------



## Audiogalore

badas said:


> Woo charges enough for their amps. There is some competition now.
> 
> I often think they are being cheeky with their pricing.
> $16K for a WA234. Really???
> ...


 
 I agree the WA234 is quite expense and is hard to justify that price.  However the discussion is the WA5/LE.


----------



## Badas

audiogalore said:


> I agree the WA234 is quite expense and is hard to justify that price.  However the discussion is the WA5/LE.


 

 and there plenty of competition. The price doesn't need to rocket up.
  
 This was a good point also.
  


khragon said:


> Really!!! $1000 price hike, $3700 base and the *WA5 LE can't have it own faceplate without the SPK label?? You guys have to put a stop to prevent the switch going to that setting. Talk about cheap.*


----------



## Khragon

Maybe WA5LE is good value, maybe not, I'm just saying for $4000 it's nice to not being reminded constantly that's there another version out there.  Also if you have guests coming over looking over your fancy $4+K amp, trying to switch to speaker mode to no avail, to only realize that it's there because the manufacture won't spend the effort to create another face plate without the label... don't know, maybe it's just me, but it screams cheap. 
  
 At least the old WA5LE have it's own front face plate, the old WA5LE reused the WA5 rear plate with the speaker holes closed out, it's OK because it's in the rear.  So now Woo for some reason decided to make separate rear plate for WA5LE vs. WA5, but can't be bother making different front plate!!?? and it's not like the two are complete different like the old WA5LE, this is just one label! weird.. oh well..  I'm not going to push this topic any further.


----------



## Audiogalore

khragon said:


> Maybe WA5LE is good value, maybe not, I'm just saying for $4000 it's nice to not being reminded constantly that's there another version out there.  Also if you have guests coming over looking over your fancy $4+K amp, trying to switch to speaker mode to no avail, to only realize that it's there because the manufacture won't spend the effort to create another face plate without the label... don't know, maybe it's just me, but it screams cheap.
> 
> At least the old WA5LE have it's own front face plate, the old WA5LE reused the WA5 rear plate with the speaker holes closed out, it's OK because it's in the rear.  So now Woo for some reason decided to make separate rear plate for WA5LE vs. WA5, but can't be bother making different front plate!!?? and it's not like the two are complete different like the old WA5LE, this is just one label! weird.. oh well..  I'm not going to push this topic any further.


 
 Point made and maybe Woo will take constructed criticism and modified/correct concerns.


----------



## 3083joe

Good evening 
Instant impression. 
Mullard 6080 is dull and very neutral compared to the GEC 6as7g
I can't believe the difference. Well worth the extra money. 
Don't get me wrong for the money the mullard are good. Just the GECs are in a different league. 
But that's my ears. Maybe for different genre of music but jazz GEC wins.


----------



## a1uc

Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B    what do you guys think about this tube for the WA22 ?


----------



## a1uc

3083joe said:


> Good evening
> Instant impression.
> Mullard 6080 is dull and very neutral compared to the GEC 6as7g
> I can't believe the difference. Well worth the extra money.
> ...


 
 Mullard 6080 is for sure dull compared to my  Sylvania 7236


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> Mullard 6080 is for sure dull compared to my  Sylvania 7236



Yeah. Maybe so. 
I was very unimpressed unfortunately. 
No low end. Rolled off highs. Kinda slow. 
GEC 6as7gs blazing fast lows back in there and crisp highs but not harsh. Perfect mids 
The mullards were quiet tho Badas


----------



## a1uc

So you like the GEC 6as7gs over the  Sylvania 7236


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> So you like the GEC 6as7gs over the  Sylvania 7236



Don't have any. Just use the tung sol 7236s and like the GEC s over those lots!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yeah. Maybe so.
> I was very unimpressed unfortunately.
> No low end. Rolled off highs. Kinda slow.
> GEC 6as7gs blazing fast lows back in there and crisp highs but not harsh. Perfect mids
> The mullards were quiet tho @Badas


 
  
 We must hear very differently. I had the same reaction as you on the GEC's.
  
 I couldn't take them out fast enough.
  
 The GEC's were fast and too bright.
  
 For Jazz / Blues I like it more laid back and the Mullards won.
  
 Just shows ya how different we all are. No one is right or wrong. Just different.
  
 Thanks for reporting about the noise level on the WA22. It is very obvious that I was sold a dud amp. I have contacted Woo for comment. Hopefully they have a fix.


----------



## TonyNewman

audiogalore said:


> Okay I understand your point, but analyzing the true value of the original WA5/LE they were given away. When compared to other so call high end manufactures they would have sold them for two maybe three times the price.
> 
> Where could or can you have been able to get the built quality at these prices.  They are custom built like a tank with the finest selection of materials and point to point wiring to explicit detail. So again when I say value with features which ultimately turn/relate to benefits and merely knowing that us consumer such as myself of the product have been given a fantastic 300b amp relatively a give away at Woo's expense!
> 
> Enjoy music!


 
  
 I can think of several choices at this price point. There are also some "garage" amp builders that do a fine job and can deliver something quite special, and tailored to your desires (within reason), for similar money.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> We must hear very differently. I had the same reaction as you on the GEC's.
> 
> I couldn't take them out fast enough.
> 
> ...



I'm sure we do but I thought you had the 6080 GECs? 

I'm talking about the 6AS7G GECs


----------



## Stereolab42

Can't really think of any other all-tube 300B headphone amps at the WA5 price point aside from Eddie Current offerings. If you're willing to go with a purely speaker amp and build a Robinette box your options increase. And of course there are hobbyist amp builders out there. But let's be realistic. If you're buying a 300B amp you are also realistically committing to buying a couple thousand in tubes to make the most of your purchase... or you would have been better off with an amp that uses cheaper tubes. Throw in the cost of TOTL headphones and a thousand bucks in either direction starts to look like chump change.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I'm sure we do but I thought you had the 6080 GECs?
> 
> I'm talking about the 6AS7G GECs


 
  
 They are suppose to sound very very similar to each other (GEC 6080 and 6AS7G).


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> They are suppose to sound very very similar to each other (GEC 6080 and 6AS7G).



If you didn't like them then I can't imagine they do. But I have a set coming and I'll tell you my thoughts.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> If you didn't like them then I can't imagine they do. But I have a set coming and I'll tell you my thoughts.


 

 Cool.
  
 Can you hold onto those Mullards for a bit. I'm talking to Woo at the moment about my crappy power tube circuit. I may buy these Mullards of you to test in my amp if needed. For testing purposes.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Cool.
> 
> Can you hold onto those Mullards for a bit. I'm talking to Woo at the moment about my crappy power tube circuit. I may buy these Mullards of you to test in my amp if needed. For testing purposes.



Sure.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> We must hear very differently. I had the same reaction as you on the GEC's.
> 
> I couldn't take them out fast enough.
> 
> ...


 
 I think the 6080 are polite sounding in general in the wa22 but the mullards are the most euphonic of them - warmer but still at a good walk.  The GEC  6as7 give a faster pace though warm but transparent mids - that is dynamic - and a wider sound stage.  I like both but wish there was a GEC 5998/421.


----------



## Shaffer

stereolab42 said:


> Can't really think of any other all-tube 300B headphone amps at the WA5 price point aside from Eddie Current offerings. If you're willing to go with a purely speaker amp and build a Robinette box your options increase. And of course there are hobbyist amp builders out there. But let's be realistic. If you're buying a 300B amp you are also realistically committing to buying a couple thousand in tubes to make the most of your purchase... or you would have been better off with an amp that uses cheaper tubes. Throw in the cost of TOTL headphones and a thousand bucks in either direction starts to look like chump change.




Here's my problem, well, one of them, with the WA5: It's a component surrounded by what looks like superb build quality, yet the attention to detail is lacking. For example, the transformers are simply covered by aluminum extrusions; they are not potted. Why not? Why are the transformers not potted? It's not as if it's terribly difficult to do. This seems to be a part of their business model - build a product that _looks _great and then use it as a substrate for upgrades that can cost more than the amp, itself. Why not offer an amplifier that can stand on its own? The WA6 certainly can't. In semi-stock form it doesn't sound any better than a DV336SE, in some ways worse at 3X the price. I have them sitting next to each other. Dump another ~$150 into the WA6 and it becomes more competitive. Introduce a Feliks Elise and the game is over, but I digress. I have no doubt that the WA5 sounds significantly better than my WA6. It better....


----------



## Badas

shaffer said:


> Here's my problem, well, one of them, with the WA5: It's a component surrounded by what looks like superb build quality, yet the attention to detail is lacking. For example, the transformers are simply covered by aluminum extrusions; they are not potted. Why not? Why are the transformers not potted? It's not as if it's terribly difficult to do. This seems to be a part of their business model - build a product that _looks _great and then use it as a substrate for upgrades that can cost more than the amp, itself. Why not offer an amplifier that can stand on its own? The WA6 certainly can't. In semi-stock form it doesn't sound any better than a DV336SE, in some ways worse at 3X the price. I have them sitting next to each other. Dump another ~$150 into the WA6 and it becomes more competitive. Introduce a Feliks Elise and the game is over, but I digress. I have no doubt that the WA5 sounds significantly better than my WA6. It better....


 

 I've often thought that about my WA22. How do we know what the transformer is like? We have covers over the top to make them look nice.
  
 Other brands have the transformer proudly on display. For all we know they could be real cheap. I have no idea.
  
 I have spoken to a WA234 owner who was not impressed when he took a look inside his WA234. He said his transformers were dented and scratched badly. Certainly not top workmanship. The answer from Woo was to design the WA234 case so it could not be opened. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have no idea what a potted transformer is? Is it important?


----------



## Khragon

badas said:


> ...
> I have spoken to a WA234 owner who was not impressed when he took a look inside his WA234. He said his transformers were dented and scratched badly. Certainly not top workmanship. The answer from Woo was to design the WA234 case so it could not be opened.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I like to see some real photos of WA234's internal.  Please consider sharing.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I have no idea what a potted transformer is? Is it important?


 
 I was wondering the same thing…I think he means built into the bottom of the case (flat) not on top of the case so they wouldn't be protruding upwards…not to sure?


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> shaffer said:
> 
> 
> > Here's my problem, well, one of them, with the WA5: It's a component surrounded by what looks like superb build quality, yet the attention to detail is lacking. For example, the transformers are simply covered by aluminum extrusions; they are not potted. Why not? Why are the transformers not potted? It's not as if it's terribly difficult to do. This seems to be a part of their business model - build a product that _looks _great and then use it as a substrate for upgrades that can cost more than the amp, itself. Why not offer an amplifier that can stand on its own? The WA6 certainly can't. In semi-stock form it doesn't sound any better than a DV336SE, in some ways worse at 3X the price. I have them sitting next to each other. Dump another ~$150 into the WA6 and it becomes more competitive. Introduce a Feliks Elise and the game is over, but I digress. I have no doubt that the WA5 sounds significantly better than my WA6. It better....
> ...


 

 Potted is filled with epoxy or epoxy sand mixture it damps vibrations. Don't know if it helps the sound probably not


----------



## Shaffer

2359glenn said:


> Potted is filled with epoxy or epoxy sand mixture it damps vibrations. Don't know if it helps the sound probably not




I would argue that the vibration of the transformer is often translated into its (audible) harmonics, sometimes heard as a light hum, which potting often eliminates or reduces to an inaudible level. On a micro level, as we're talking about a reference-grade component with assumingly superior resolution of low-level detail, that same harmonic noise can reduce its audibility, or at the very least its definition.


----------



## joseph69

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Sko0byDoo

I believe Woo make their own transformers, power and output.  There was a link about Woo workshop which showed the winding and lamination treaments (I don't have the link at hand).  
  
 Have built a few amps myself, I do appreciate what Woo is trying to do in an amp like the WA234.  It's freaking cool idea: plate/cathode coupled for three types of tubes that require three different operation points.  But it's expensive beyond my means, so I wouldn't buy it.  
  
 I don't get it why are people complaining about the price?  Don't buy it if it's "expensive" to you.  No need for brand bashing.


----------



## Badas

sko0bydoo said:


> I don't get it why are people complaining about the price?  Don't buy it if it's "expensive" to you.  *No need for brand bashing*.


 
  
 Actually price was only one objection. Build quality issues and design were the others. When there are issues I think it is worth discussing.


----------



## Audiogalore

sko0bydoo said:


> I believe Woo make their own transformers, power and output.  There was a link about Woo workshop which showed the winding and lamination treaments (I don't have the link at hand).
> 
> Have built a few amps myself, I do appreciate what Woo is trying to do in an amp like the WA234.  It's freaking cool idea: plate/cathode coupled for three types of tubes that require three different operation points.  But it's expensive beyond my means, so I wouldn't buy it.
> 
> I don't get it why are people complaining about the price?  Don't buy it if it's "expensive" to you.  No need for brand bashing.


 
 I know we are all entitle to our option. Quite Frankly I agree it is nice to know that Woo designs and wind there own transformers from scratch. It brings it own character to the hobby, bottom line it sounds fantastic and if the wheel is not broken why fix it!
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Stereolab42

With all due respect... anyone who's actually taken the back cover off a Woo amp and looked at how carefully and beautifully the wiring is done would never complain about build quality. (Or just Google the pictures.) I can't believe this conversation is even being had. Got opinions about SQ? Sure, shoot. But build quality is a factual matter.


----------



## Audiogalore

stereolab42 said:


> With all due respect... anyone who's actually taken the back cover off a Woo amp and looked at how carefully and beautifully the wiring is done would never complain about build quality. (Or just Google the pictures.) I can't believe this conversation is even being had. Got opinions about SQ? Sure, shoot. But build quality is a factual matter.


 
 Absolutely on the money. As a Electrical Engineer my training has allow me to appreciate the craftsmen of Woo product. Fine job.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> With all due respect... anyone who's actually taken the back cover off a Woo amp and looked at how carefully and beautifully the wiring is done would never complain about build quality. (Or just Google the pictures.) I can't believe this conversation is even being had. Got opinions about SQ? Sure, shoot. But build quality is a factual matter.




Okay. I take up the challenge. I will shoot over sound quality.

How come when I stick in a 6080 tube into a 6080 socket on the WA22 it sounds like a crappy old radio with massive amounts of noise then? To my ears that is not good sound quality. 

But I already know the answer to that. Crappy build quality. About a year ago Woo changed something in the WA22 that effected a lot of us with bad 6080 circuits. The answer. Keep quiet and do nothing about it. So actually build quality is relevant as it effects the sound quality.


----------



## Contrails

> anyone who's actually taken the back cover off a Woo amp and looked at how carefully and beautifully the wiring is done would never complain about build quality


 
  

  
 That's point to point art work and that's in a $750 amp which sounds as good as a WA2.  
  

  
 Internal pic of Wa2 taken from the web.  I do think Woo makes great products but I think the point people are trying to make is when you're paying $10k or even $5k for an amp, you're expecting top-notch finish and parts and not just on the outside.


----------



## SonicTrance

contrails said:


> That's point to point art work and that's in a $750 amp which sounds as good as a WA2.


 
 Beautiful! What amp is that?


----------



## Aussie Lou

sonictrance said:


> Beautiful! What amp is that?


 
 La Figaro/Darkvoice 339
  
 http://erji.net/read.php?tid=1206319
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/La-Figaro-339-Headphone-amplifier-tube-amplifier-PreAMP-amplifier-AMP-/111026198887


----------



## Jeb Listens

Hmm I don't own a WA2 but that pic doesn't look like some of the others I've seen which look very neat indeed as seen in this post from a few years ago. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/3090#post_6525392

Although neatness is always important , as long as it's at a decent level - which it seems to be, I think I'd be more interested in the choice of the components, the thought process that has gone into the circuit design, and the quality of the solder-work rather than having 90 degree bends in the wires and regimented rows of many components.

I've seen pictures of the insides of a few of TOTL tube amps from the likes of DNA and Eddie Current and none of them seen that concerned with that kind of thing either.

However, since I've never designed a circuit, nor have I heard the amps in question, I probably shouldn't comment further.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> That's point to point art work and that's in a $750 amp which sounds as good as a WA2.
> 
> 
> 
> Internal pic of Wa2 taken from the web.  I do think Woo makes great products but I think the point people are trying to make is when you're paying $10k or even $5k for an amp, you're expecting top-notch finish and parts and not just on the outside.


 
  
 Damn, the first one is a work of art.


----------



## 2359glenn

contrails said:


> > anyone who's actually taken the back cover off a Woo amp and looked at how carefully and beautifully the wiring is done would never complain about build quality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Looks good but a real pain in the ass to work on when it breaks.


----------



## Stereolab42

jeb listens said:


> Hmm I don't own a WA2 but that pic doesn't look like some of the others I've seen which look very neat indeed as seen in this post from a few years ago.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/3090#post_6525392
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pic from that thread (WA2):
  

  
 The essence of beauty and simplicity to me. Probably a more recent build than the previous pic, and not taken with bad lighting either. (Interiors of the WA22 and WA5 are similarly classy, looking at my own pics.) Much prettier than the interior of the La Figaro to me.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> Okay. I take up the challenge. I will shoot over sound quality.
> 
> How come when I stick in a 6080 tube into a 6080 socket on the WA22 it sounds like a crappy old radio with massive amounts of noise then? To my ears that is not good sound quality.
> 
> But I already know the answer to that. Crappy build quality. About a year ago Woo changed something in the WA22 that effected a lot of us with bad 6080 circuits. The answer. Keep quiet and do nothing about it. So actually build quality is relevant as it effects the sound quality.


 
  
 My WA22, built last year (and traded-in to upgrade to a WA5), did just fine with cheap RCA 6080s. So your accusation is thoroughly unjustified.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> My WA22, built last year (and traded-in to upgrade to a WA5), did just fine with cheap RCA 6080s. So your accusation is thoroughly *unjustified*.


 

 Okay is this unjustified?
  
 RCA 6080 (1 pair quiet)
 Tung-Sol 7236 (1 pair quiet)
 Bendix 6080 ( 1 pair quiet)
 GE 6080 (stock set quiet)
 GE 6AS7GA (7 sets quiet)
*Tung-Sol 6AS7G (3 sets quiet)*
 Thomson 6080 (1 set quiet)
  
 Mullard 6080 (3 sets all noisy)
 Sylvania 6080 (3 sets all noisy)
 GEC 6080 (1 set noisy)
*Tung-Sol 6AS7G (1 set noisy)*
 Russian 6N13 (5 sets noisy)
 RCA 6AS7G (5 sets noisy)
  
 All noisy tubes tested in WA2 and it is quiet.
  
 WA22 is a hit or miss with 6080 power tubes. I'm not the only owner as well. A few of us have tried to fix this. We are talking via PM's of fear of getting banned. Mine has been to a shop to be checked out at my expense. Comment was "work looks fine, it must be the circuit design".
  
 Contacted Woo for the second time for comment and so far no response.
  
 Either we got a change in the circuit design at one stage then Woo corrected or a batch of WA22's got some bad components. Either way trying to get it fixed or answers is frustrating.


----------



## abvolt

That sure doesn't look like you have much luck with that amp and power tubes it would frustrate the hell out of me, sorry to see this dude I have all those same tubes or had (sold some) and others with no issues, hopefully Woo will give you an answer soon, You might end up selling and look for another maker..


----------



## abvolt

abvolt said:


> That sure doesn't look like you have much luck with that amp and power tubes it would frustrate the hell out of me, sorry to see this dude I have all those same tubes or had (sold some) and others with no issues, hopefully Woo will give you an answer soon, You might end up selling and look for another maker..


 
 don't own GEC 6080's..


----------



## Stereolab42

It's really no mystery that different tube amps frequently have different circuit designs for the same family of tubes. Different voltages, etc. And not all such designs work ideally with all tubes in that family. (For example, the NU 6F8G in the WA5.) Maybe the output tube circuit in the WA22 could/should be tweaked to be less noisy with some tubes, but it's hardly broken or even flawed. It was silent with enough of the output tubes I rolled that I was happy, the noisy ones I just returned (and I only buy from sellers that allow returns). Owning a tube amp isn't meant to be simple or easy, and I for one wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## Shaffer

FWIW, I've purchased 5 pairs of brand new signal tubes for my WA6, and have another two pairs on the way. Only one pair of tubes is quiet. And it's not as if the noise is exclusive to a specific channel, time of day, or physical placement. The noise never leaves. Yes, some noise can be a part of the tube game, but when a $260 Asian amp is dead quiet and can match the WA6's sound quality, and surpass it in some areas, it's not unreasonable to expect more refined performance from the Woo.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> It's really no mystery that different tube amps frequently have different circuit designs for the same family of tubes. Different voltages, etc. And not all such designs work ideally with all tubes in that family. (For example, the NU 6F8G in the WA5.) Maybe the output tube circuit in the WA22 could/should be tweaked to be less noisy with some tubes, but it's hardly broken or even flawed. It was silent with enough of the output tubes I rolled that I was happy, the noisy ones I just returned (and I only buy from sellers that allow returns). Owning a tube amp isn't meant to be simple or easy, and I for one wouldn't have it any other way.


 
  
 The NU 6F8G driving a 300B is an interesting case. The 6C8G, with its slightly higher output, can do it without the constant noise that the 6F8G can generate.
  
 This raises the question - is using the 6SN7 family of tubes to drive the 300B a good idea in the first place? Folks that know a lot more than I do about the electrical side of things suggest that the answer is 'no'. There are better choices out there. The 6SN7s are pushed to the limit to drive the 300B - a symptom can be harshness / sibilance in the treble when pushed. When I compare TS RP vs C3G driving the TA300Bs in my WA5 I can certainly hear the difference. The C3Gs maintain a smooth and accurate treble SQ. The 6C8G TS RPs don't when stressed. Driving the 300B is too much for them - perhaps a different driver tube would have been a better design decision?


----------



## bpcans

shaffer said:


> FWIW, I've purchased 5 pairs of brand new signal tubes for my WA6, and have another two pairs on the way. Only one pair of tubes is quiet. And it's not as if the noise is exclusive to a specific channel, time of day, or physical placement. The noise never leaves. Yes, some noise can be a part of the tube game, but when a $260 Asian amp is dead quiet and can match the WA6's sound quality, and surpass it in some areas, it's not unreasonable to expect more refined performance from the Woo.


Sorry, I haven't been keeping up here lately, but I'd definitely like to know which tubes have given you problems with your WA6? I've had my WA6 for a couple of years now, and have been lucky enough to have found a good tube combo using Sophia Electric 6SN7's and a USAF 596 rectifier.


----------



## Shaffer

bpcans said:


> Sorry, I haven't been keeping up here lately, but I'd definitely like to know which tubes have given you problems with your WA6? I've had my WA6 for a couple of years now, and have been lucky enough to have found a good tube combo using Sophia Electric 6SN7's and a USAF 596 rectifier.




So far I've stuck with stock-fit tubes. My other amps run 6SN7 drivers and I'd rather play with something different.

In essence, the only tube that has not introduced a buzzing sound is a RCA 6EW7 fat bottle. I have all other varieties of stock-fit tubes, some from different manufacturers. Mostly, Sylvania and GE. I also have 4 pairs that I inherited with the amp: TS, GE, and a Pinnacle. All buzz. FWIW, I have a GZ34, a Brimar, a JAN 1641, and a bunch of other rectifiers. Still, only one pair of bottles is silent. I'm not thrilled.


----------



## Badas

Here we go.
  
 I have a response from Woo:
  
*It’s unlikely that there’s anything wrong with your WA22. Some tubes are just more noisy in some circuits. That’s why we test tubes on the actual amplifier as well as test machines. *
  
*When you need new tubes, just send us a note and we’ll get you a set with the lowest noise on WA22.*
  
 Okay. To sum up from my perspective.
  
 Woo WA22 is not designed to run some of the most well regarded tubes. Mullard 6080 and GEC 6080. So I can't get the most from my unit.
  
 Woo ignored the fact that all noisy tubes worked in WA2.
  
 Woo ignored the fact that the Mullard 6080 is working in some WA22's and not others.
  
 So be aware that if you are looking at the WA22. Full tube rolling is not a option. Or a roll with the dice at best.
  
 List of tubes to avoid that I have found. Mullard 6080, Sylvania 6080, GEC 6080, Russian 6N13, RCA 6AS7G.
  
 Risky tube. Kinda 50/50 Tung-Sol 6AS7G.
  
 Tung-Sol 5998, GEC 6AS7G not tested.


----------



## joseph69

shaffer said:


> So far I've stuck with stock-fit tubes. My other amps run 6SN7 drivers and I'd rather play with something different.
> 
> In essence, the only tube that has not introduced a buzzing sound is a RCA 6EW7 fat bottle. I have all other varieties of stock-fit tubes, some from different manufacturers. Mostly, Sylvania and GE. I also have 4 pairs that I inherited with the amp: TS, GE, and a Pinnacle. All buzz. FWIW, I have a GZ34, a Brimar, a JAN 1641, and a bunch of other rectifiers. Still, only one pair of bottles is silent. I'm not thrilled.


 
 Sorry to hear about your misfortune with the noisy tubes, or amp with these tubes.
 The only power/driver tubes that buzz in my WA6 are the NU-6F8G's* (which I thought I fixed with Deoxit)* otherwise *all *of my other tubes are dead silent. [size=x-small]Right now I'm unfortunately in the process of eliminating either bad power/driver tubes or the rectifier tube in my WA6. I'm getting heavy static/failure in the left driver of my HP's, and I've already eliminated the HP's by switching them and still had the issue. Then I switched the power/driver tubes and still had the issue[/size]…[size=x-small]now I just changed the rectifier, so I'll see what happens…I hope its not the amp, but I do believe it is my UE-596 that is bad. [/size]


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> Sorry, I haven't been keeping up here lately, but I'd definitely like to know which tubes have given you problems with your WA6? I've had my WA6 for a couple of years now, and have been lucky enough to have found a good tube combo using Sophia Electric 6SN7's and a USAF 596 rectifier.



No noisy tubes ever in my wa6. Had a few 6f8g/6c8g will buzz but cleaning them fixed it. 
With wa22 no noisy tubes and I've tried LOTS. A pair 5998s I returned for microphonics.


----------



## 3083joe

On another note. 
Amazing album


----------



## joseph69

Seems like it was my "596" everything is fine with the Brimar 5Z4G!


----------



## joseph69

@3083joe 
 Thanks!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> No noisy tubes ever in my wa6. Had a few 6f8g/6c8g will buzz but cleaning them fixed it.
> *With wa22 no noisy tubes and I've tried LOTS*. A pair 5998s I returned for microphonics.


 
  
 I wish we could switch. Then I could use Mullard 6080's. My favorite power tube for the WA22.
  
 As it stands it is stuffed in mine.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I wish we could switch. Then I could use Mullard 6080's. My favorite power tube for the WA22.
> As it stands it is stuffed in mine.


 
 Sorry to hear about the noise issues…I like the 6F8G but I don't think I would buy another pair because of the noise, so I know how you feel.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Sorry to hear about the noise issues…I like the 6F8G but I don't think I would buy another pair because of the noise, so I know how you feel.


 

 It's not the 6F8G. I tested that.
  
 When I got a noisy tube. I switched the rectifier to a Mullard GZ32 and drivers to the RCA 6SN7 Greyglass. Noise stayed.
 Switch the power tubes out and the noise went. So it is a power tube circuit problem.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> It's not the 6F8G. I tested that.
> When I got a noisy tube. I switched the rectifier to a Mullard GZ32 and drivers to the RCA 6SN7 Greyglass. Noise stayed.
> Switch the power tubes out and the noise went. So it is a power tube circuit problem.


 
 Sorry, I misunderstood your issue.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood your issue.


 

 All good.


----------



## joseph69

Seems I spoke to soon…same issue with my WA6, I'm still getting heavy static and now both drivers are failing/fading away on me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Guess I'm going to be contacting Woo.


----------



## Contrails

I see the upgraded WA5 on the woo website.  Are the rest of the amps being upgraded too including the WA22? Also, with the latest WA22 available, is there still a major difference in sound between balanced and RCA inputs?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I wish we could switch. Then I could use Mullard 6080's. My favorite power tube for the WA22.
> 
> As it stands it is stuffed in mine.



Sorry my friend.


----------



## 3083joe

contrails said:


> I see the upgraded WA5 on the woo website.  Are the rest of the amps being upgraded too including the WA22? Also, with the latest WA22 available, is there still a major difference in sound between balanced and RCA inputs?



Don't hear a major difference just minor.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

> The C3Gs maintain a smooth and accurate


 
  
 Tony, wonder if you're willing to try the D3a (pentode) out driving the 300b.  Curious on people's take  on this tube versus the mighty C3g.  D3a got a gain like 70 or so.


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> > The C3Gs maintain a smooth and accurate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Will need a different set of WA-5 adapters for the D3a


----------



## Sko0byDoo

2359glenn said:


> Will need a different set of WA-5 adapters for the D3a


 
  
 I take that you can make them


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Will need a different set of WA-5 adapters for the D3a
> ...


 

 Yes each adapter is wired different for the WA-5


----------



## Contrails

So, I emailed Mr. Woo about the WA22 and here's what I got for reply. 
  

  
 So now we can use unbalanced sources with the WA22 and the signal gets converted to balanced mode.


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> Tony, wonder if you're willing to try the D3a (pentode) out driving the 300b.  Curious on people's take  on this tube versus the mighty C3g.  D3a got a gain like 70 or so.


 
  
 Not sure I understand what the D3a would do for me that the C3g does not. Interesting tube, though, and not very expensive (seen them advertised for $30 USD per tube).
  
 EDIT - Did some research and answered my own question - the D3A has a gain of around 70 and the C3g a gain of around 40.
  
 Standard 6SN7 has a gain of around 20 (from Wikipedia - take that with a grain of salt).
  
 My understanding (and experience) is that the C3g is sufficient to drive the 300B properly. Some say only just enough - not a lot of headroom, but far more appropriate as a 300B driver than a 6SN7.


----------



## ElMariachi

Hi, does anyone knoe the best way to clean the tube plugs on an amp? Im getting a little bit of popping on my amp and i think it might be from a dirty connection. Thanks for your help everyone!


----------



## Badas

elmariachi said:


> Hi, does anyone knoe the best way to clean the tube plugs on an amp? Im getting a little bit of popping on my amp and i think it might be from a dirty connection. Thanks for your help everyone!


 
  
 I use electrical connection spray cleaner first. You can get this at any auto parts store.
  
 Spray on a cotton bud (not sure what other countries call them) and wipe on pins. Then wipe again with DeOxit tube pin protection. Then wipe again with dry cotton bud.
  
 Beware popping in amp could be a tube short. Cleaning pins may not help. Often does tho.


----------



## ElMariachi

badas said:


> I use electrical connection spray cleaner first. You can get this at any auto parts store.
> 
> Spray on a cotton bud (not sure what other countries call them) and wipe on pins. Then wipe again with DeOxit tube pin protection. Then wipe again with dry cotton bud.
> 
> Beware popping in amp could be a tube short. Cleaning pins may not help. Often does tho.



Right on, thanks for your help!


----------



## bfreedma

elmariachi said:


> Right on, thanks for your help!




This might be a good option. The sizes of the products are quite small, but if you only plan on using this for occasional electronics cleaning, it's an inexpensive way to get everything you need.

http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-SK-AV35-Audio-Survival-Kit/dp/B00C0NTMPE/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1443648068&sr=8-10&keywords=deoxit


----------



## jhljhl

The New WA5 and WA5LE have balanced input and output but are still single-ended?  In other words, there is no difference between single and balanced input?


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Not sure I understand what the D3a would do for me that the C3g does not. Interesting tube, though, and not very expensive (seen them advertised for $30 USD per tube).
> 
> EDIT - Did some research and answered my own question - the D3A has a gain of around 70 and the C3g a gain of around 40.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've heard others say that a 300B plus 6SN7 amp design is nutz. 300B kills the 6SN7 with too much power. No other amp manufacturer has that design for good reason.
  
 So I guess it makes the WA5 and WA234 seriously flawed? WA234 $15K for flawed amp design will not be fun.
  
 Probably better to stay with 6080 and 6SN7 combinations.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

tonynewman said:


> ...300B driver than a 6SN7.


 
  
    Most of the 6SN7 drives 300b is done in two stages since 6SN7 is a dual triode; so overall gain should be more than 20 to the 300B grid.  Just overall, more adverse stuffs in the signal path. 
  
    D3a is relatively cheap, but difficult to source.  Glenn can get you the adapters for wa5.  Wonder what's your take on it versus the c3g.


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> Most of the 6SN7 drives 300b is done in two stages since 6SN7 is a dual triode; so overall gain should be more than 20 to the 300B grid.  Just overall, more adverse stuffs in the signal path.
> 
> D3a is relatively cheap, but difficult to source.  Glenn can get you the adapters for wa5.  Wonder what's your take on it versus the c3g.


 
  
 C3G is such a great performer that I am loathe to bother with another set of adapters and tubes.
  
 It does look interesting, for sure.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> The New WA5 and WA5LE have balanced input and output but are still single-ended?  In other words, there is no difference between single and balanced input?


 

 Yes there is a difference unbalanced is a single signal and balanced has a + and - signal.
 It cancels hum  and noise in long runs of cable from Mic to console
 It is used for long runs in studios. For a 1 meter run of cable it is ridicules. And there is no
 improvement in sound by using it in short runs.
 Bunch of hype to sell you stuff you don't need.
 People think they need it so Woo puts it in there amps smart.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> Yes there is a difference unbalanced is a single signal and balanced has a + and - signal.
> It cancels hum  and noise in long runs of cable from Mic to console
> It is used for long runs in studios. For a 1 meter run of cable it is ridicules. And there is no
> improvement in sound by using it in short runs.
> ...


 

 The balanced out of dacs are higher than single ended sometimes.  But I guess I can use a preamp like my csp2+ to increase to 4vrms from the standard 2v for single ended?


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> The New WA5 and WA5LE have balanced input and output but are still single-ended?  In other words, there is no difference between single and balanced input?


 

 Yes-- Both are still single ended.  
  
 Great summary in this article posted a few days ago-- outstanding summary:
  
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## JamesBr

reeltime said:


> Yes-- Both are still single ended.
> 
> Great summary in this article posted a few days ago-- outstanding summary:
> 
> http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/


 
 Excellent article! thanks for the share!


----------



## 3083joe

Excellent album


----------



## jc9394

badas said:


> Okay is this unjustified?
> 
> RCA 6080 (1 pair quiet)
> Tung-Sol 7236 (1 pair quiet)
> ...


 
  
 I have been out of the loop for a while, is something changed on WA22 design?  I don't recall 6080 is noisy at all, the GEC I had was dead quiet.


----------



## 3083joe

jc9394 said:


> I have been out of the loop for a while, is something changed on WA22 design?  I don't recall 6080 is noisy at all, the GEC I had was dead quiet.


 

 It seems that a few people that have a wa22 produced around a year ago are having issues.


----------



## jc9394

That is unfortunate, why would you mess with a great amp unless it is a major overhaul.


----------



## Badas

jc9394 said:


> That is unfortunate, why would you mess with a great amp unless it is a major overhaul.


 
  
 I think they didn't mess up the design. There has been a batch of faulty components supplied.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> It seems that a few people that have a wa22 produced around a year ago are having issues.


 

 Joe (is that your name, sorry if is not),
  
 Do you still have that set of Mullards?
  
 I think I will talk to Woo again and tell them that you have a set of Mullards that have worked properly. Then if I can buy them off you and test in my amp. If it is noisy (very likely out of 6 tubes I have had one is quiet) then it should highlight that there is a issue. Problem is getting Woo to understand that WA22's from a year ago are not working as advertised or like previous or current models. Did you get the Mullards from Langrex? That is where I got all of mine.
  
 Is this agreeable?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Joe (is that your name, sorry if is not),
> 
> Do you still have that set of Mullards?
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, Joe is my name,
 I ordered the Tubes from Tubemonger
 They look out for me often with good tubes
 I just put them on Ebay as i have no need for them and thought you where done, since the problems persisted.
 I paid 124 shipped
 so let me know and ill do what i can.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yes, Joe is my name,
> I ordered the Tubes from Tubemonger
> They look out for me often with good tubes
> I just put them on Ebay as i have no need for them and thought you where done, since the problems persisted.
> ...


 

 All good,
  
 I checked it out on eBay. There is already a bid. Might as well let that person grab them.
  
 What I think I will do is find my noisiest Mullard tubes and send them to you. Would you mind testing?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> All good,
> 
> I checked it out on eBay. There is already a bid. Might as well let that person grab them.
> 
> What I think I will do is find my noisiest Mullard tubes and send them to you. Would you mind testing?


 

 Sorry about that!
 Yes i will


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Sorry about that!
> Yes i will


 

 Great. Thanks.
  
 The tubes are in great condition. No shorts. So it won't do any harm to your amp. They are just noisy in mine.
  
 Once tested you can keep them or sell. Up to you.


----------



## ElMariachi

bfreedma said:


> This might be a good option. The sizes of the products are quite small, but if you only plan on using this for occasional electronics cleaning, it's an inexpensive way to get everything you need.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-SK-AV35-Audio-Survival-Kit/dp/B00C0NTMPE/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1443648068&sr=8-10&keywords=deoxit




Thanks for the heads up! Im gonna order one now.


----------



## Badas

elmariachi said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Im gonna order one now.


 

 I like the look of the little brushes designed to go down the sockets. It is a good starter kit.
  
 Get extras of the normal DeOixit tubes as well. They don't go far.


----------



## Aussie Lou

These Piksters are great for sockets. http://piksters.com/page/piksters
  
 Available on eBay I believe you just need to find the size that is suitable.


----------



## Badas

aussie lou said:


> These Piksters are great for sockets. http://piksters.com/page/piksters
> 
> Available on eBay I believe you just need to find the size that is suitable.


 

 How cool.
  
 Good find.


----------



## abvolt

They work good that's what I use with a little electronics cleaner..


----------



## Aussie Lou

badas said:


> How cool.
> 
> Good find.




If you have trouble sourcing them let us know. 

I can easily send some across the ditch.


----------



## 3083joe

Wow the Elise thread is locked....... 

Ok hate to do it but another amazing album tonight. Loving the sax!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Ok hate to do it but another amazing album tonight. Loving the sax!


 
  
 Keep it coming. It never gets old. Ya do listen to some interesting music.


----------



## Contrails

Badas, if you don't mind me asking how did you get your WA22 into Kiwiland?
  
 I sent Addicted to Audio in Melbourne an email yesterday asking about the WA22 and shipping costs to New Zealand, I got a reply saying would I be able to do direct bank transfer? I said I could do that.  Then they asked if they could have my name and phone number and after that they would send me an invoice.  I would then have to transfer the money...  Felt like I was being tricked into committing for a sale.  I replied saying how about you first sent me a quote first and then I will decide.  No reply.  
  
 So now, I am looking at other options.


----------



## Aussie Lou

contrails said:


> Badas, if you don't mind me asking how did you get your WA22 into Kiwiland?
> 
> I sent Addicted to Audio in Melbourne an email yesterday asking about the WA22 and shipping costs to New Zealand, I got a reply saying would I be able to do direct bank transfer? I said I could do that.  Then they asked if they could have my name and phone number and after that they would send me an invoice.  I would then have to transfer the money...  Felt like I was being tricked into committing for a sale.  I replied saying how about you first sent me a quote first and then I will decide.  No reply.
> 
> So now, I am looking at other options.


 

 HI I am not badas but I have tried other options to purchase the WA22 here in Australia.
  
 With the US conversion to Australian Dollar and reasonable shipping costs from Woo Audio in the US it still worked out cheaper than
  
 purchasing from A2A.
  
 Woo Audio replied that it was in my best interest to purchase from A2A in Australia direct due to any possible warranty claims.
  
 A2A seems to have the monopoly on Woo Audio products in Australia.
  
 If you do not agree with A2A's pricing other amps may be a better option.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Badas, if you don't mind me asking how did you get your WA22 into Kiwiland?
> 
> I sent Addicted to Audio in Melbourne an email yesterday asking about the WA22 and shipping costs to New Zealand, I got a reply saying would I be able to do direct bank transfer? I said I could do that.  Then they asked if they could have my name and phone number and after that they would send me an invoice.  I would then have to transfer the money...  Felt like I was being tricked into committing for a sale.  I replied saying how about you first sent me a quote first and then I will decide.  No reply.
> 
> So now, I am looking at other options.




Addicted to Audio had a dedicated dealer in NZ a year ago when I purchased mine. Computer Lounge. Not sure if Computer Lounge is still dealing in Woo. They seem to be moving away from HP gear. 

However I purchased from them. They were monkeys to deal with tho.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Addicted to Audio had a dedicated dealer in NZ a year ago when I purchased mine. Computer Lounge. Not sure if Computer Lounge is still dealing in Woo. They seem to be moving away from HP gear.
> 
> However I purchased from them. They were monkeys to deal with tho.


 
  
 Once Billy left it all went to custard as far as HPs go.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Once Billy left it all went to custard as far as HPs go.




Agreed. Billy was gold. I miss him. Contrails you should deal with him. He would look after you. I will get his details if you want. He works with HP's in Aussie. A truely helpful guy.

Tony. I just read your location quote.  That is soooooooo wrong in a million ways.


----------



## Aussie Lou

badas said:


> Agreed. Billy was gold. I miss him. Contrails you should deal with him. He would look after you. I will get his details if you want. He works with HP's in Aussie. A truely helpful guy.
> 
> That would be great thanks mate.
> 
> Tony. I just read your location quote.  That is soooooooo wrong in a million ways.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Agreed. Billy was gold. I miss him. Contrails you should deal with him. He would look after you. I will get his details if you want. He works with HP's in Aussie. A truely helpful guy.
> 
> Tony. I just read your location quote.  That is soooooooo wrong in a million ways.


If it's Billy Ross you're referring to, I believe he is based in the Sydney store (previously "hifi trader"). If he's not based there he's there quite often. 

FYI it's a public holiday in Melbourne today and a public holiday in most states in Australia on Monday as well.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Agreed. Billy was gold. I miss him. Contrails you should deal with him. He would look after you. I will get his details if you want. He works with HP's in Aussie. A truely helpful guy.
> 
> Tony. I just read your location quote.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 on Billy. Excellent salesman and genuine audio nut.
  
 I was wondering if/when someone would get the joke. Being an Aussie in NZ makes it extra cheeky, I think.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I was wondering if/when someone would get the joke. Being an Aussie in NZ makes it extra cheeky, I think.




You really shouldn't talk about our girlfriends that way.


----------



## Contrails

> Contrails you should deal with him. He would look after you. I will get his details if you want. He works with HP's in Aussie. A truely helpful guy


 
  
 Mate, that would be much appreciated.  Thank you.
  


> FYI it's a public holiday in Melbourne today and a public holiday in most states in Australia on Monday as well


 
  
 Thanks, didn't think of that one.  It's most likely why I didn't receive a reply.  Will wait till Wednesday. 
  


> You really shouldn't talk about our girlfriends that way.


 
  
 The ratio is in our favour so I am sure they wouldn't mind.


----------



## hypnos1

3083joe said:


> *Wow the Elise thread is locked*.......
> 
> Ok hate to do it but another amazing album tonight. Loving the sax!


 
  
 Sorry for butting into your thread guys...but yes, we were sadly derailed by a certain member - which is not good for any of us fellow HP amp lovers, lol!.
  
  I have in fact started a new thread...I am glad y'all have reached your own dizzying heights unscathed...


----------



## isquirrel

contrails said:


> Badas, if you don't mind me asking how did you get your WA22 into Kiwiland?
> 
> I sent Addicted to Audio in Melbourne an email yesterday asking about the WA22 and shipping costs to New Zealand, I got a reply saying would I be able to do direct bank transfer? I said I could do that.  Then they asked if they could have my name and phone number and after that they would send me an invoice.  I would then have to transfer the money...  Felt like I was being tricked into committing for a sale.  I replied saying how about you first sent me a quote first and then I will decide.  No reply.
> 
> So now, I am looking at other options.


 

 Surprising, A2A are usually very good with customer service, I know the owner very well and I am sure he would like to know that are not happy, suggest you give Ash a call on Monday and let him know that Simon suggested you call and give him the details of what you need. Sorry I felt compelled to write this as they are normally so good but I know they have had staff changes recently. The owners name is George, he is at RMAF ATM but if you can't get satisfaction worth trying him at the end of next week. Hope you get it sorted out.


----------



## Contrails

> Surprising, A2A are usually very good with customer service, I know the owner very well and I am sure he would like to know that are not happy, suggest you give Ash a call on Monday and let him know that Simon suggested you call and give him the details of what you need. Sorry I felt compelled to write this as they are normally so good but I know they have had staff changes recently. The owners name is George, he is at RMAF ATM but if you can't get satisfaction worth trying him at the end of next week. Hope you get it sorted out


 
  
 Will do, cheers for that.


----------



## isquirrel

contrails said:


> Will do, cheers for that.


 

 No problem, I will follow them up on my end, any issues don't hesitate to PM me.


----------



## Contrails

> No problem, I will follow them up on my end, any issues don't hesitate to PM me


 
  
 Much appreciated mate.  They are probably just busy with public holiday and stuff.  I might give them a ring instead on Tuesday.
  
 Edit: I just got a reply from them.  I shall eat my own words while listening to Pink Floyd. 
  
 I am travelling through Melbourne early Jan, will pick up the amp on the way back to New Zealand.  Will save on Australian GST that way and freight fees.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Much appreciated mate.  They are probably just busy with public holiday and stuff.  I might give them a ring instead on Tuesday.
> 
> Edit: I just got a reply from them.  I shall eat my own words while listening to Pink Floyd.
> 
> I am travelling through Melbourne early Jan, will pick up the amp on the way back to New Zealand.  Will save on Australian GST that way and freight fees.




That's the way dude. I like the listening to Pink Floyd quote. 

Where are you located? If you find yourself in Auckland you are welcome to audition the WA22.


----------



## Contrails

> Where are you located? If you find yourself in Auckland you are welcome to audition the WA22.


 
  
 Oh mate that would be epic.  I am based in Auckland, I see you have the LCD-X too. Maybe, we should have a mini headphone meet.  I managed to find a tube seller in Auckland with a decent collection - http://www.vintageaudioworld.com/.   You probably would have heard of them.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Oh mate that would be epic.  I am based in Auckland, I see you have the LCD-X too. Maybe, we should have a mini headphone meet.  I managed to find a tube seller in Auckland with a decent collection - http://www.vintageaudioworld.com/.   You probably would have heard of them.




I have sent a PM. Always happy to help if I can.

I haven't heard of that seller. Looks to have nice stuff tho. I don't know if my wallet can handle another good seller.


----------



## Contrails

> I don't know if my wallet can handle another good seller


 
  






 tell me about it!


----------



## a1uc

Has anyone here ever heard the GD Audio Master 9 ? wondering how it sounds compared to the WA22  I always wanted to try one


----------



## thecrow

a1uc said:


> Has anyone here ever heard the GD Audio Master 9 ? wondering how it sounds compared to the WA22  I always wanted to try one


I can't give too much info on the m9 but if you're thinking about it also look at the master 11 and its thread. 

The m11 was introduced in July this year


----------



## a1uc

I saw that , I already have a very good DAC


----------



## Aussie Lou

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference between Brimar 5Z4GY's
  

  
 and Brimar 5Z4G's


----------



## Badas

aussie lou said:


> Can anyone tell me if there is a difference between Brimar 5Z4GY's
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No difference. I have both.

Brown base and grey plates, black base and black plates. 

If there is a difference I can't hear it.

The code GY refers to the glass shape. Not tube internal structure. Pointless putting GY because as you can see they are the same.


----------



## Aussie Lou

badas said:


> No difference. I have both.
> 
> Brown base and grey plates, black base and black plates.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cheers Badas.
  
 I have a few brown base purchased from Langrax and noticed this black base on a sellers site who I am currently dealing with.
  
 May as well get him to add it to my parcel.


----------



## MIKELAP

aussie lou said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > No difference. I have both.
> ...


 
 i bought both types from Langrex the black and the brown base if you want black just ask for it that's what i did


----------



## Aussie Lou

mikelap said:


> i bought both types from Langrex the black and the brown base if you want black just ask for it that's what i did


 
 Do you agree that there is no sound difference?


----------



## JoeDoe

New member of the Woo-tang clan checking in:
  
 WA7 + WA7tp: EH Gold Pins in the amp, NOS GE 5-star JG5814a in the power supply, Volex 17604 power cable, and StraightWire USB cable. The RS1s and HE500s are eating this up!


----------



## MIKELAP

aussie lou said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > i bought both types from Langrex the black and the brown base if you want black just ask for it that's what i did
> ...


 
 That's why i wanted to try different ones but i cant here a difference either


----------



## Aussie Lou

Will have a chance to try that myself soon.
  
 Seems like the best between the brown and black base is the one that looks good in your amp.


----------



## MIKELAP

aussie lou said:


> Will have a chance to try that myself soon.
> 
> Seems like the best between the brown and black base is the one that looks good in your amp.


 
 That's why i prefer the brown base


----------



## HiFiGuy528

anyone here made it out to CanJam@RMAF over the weekend? We had the new WA5-LE driving Abyss at our booth. Here's a quick pic.
  

  


joedoe said:


> New member of the Woo-tang clan checking in:
> 
> WA7 + WA7tp: EH Gold Pins in the amp, NOS GE 5-star JG5814a in the power supply, Volex 17604 power cable, and StraightWire USB cable. The RS1s and HE500s are eating this up!


 
  
 Beautiful.... congrats!


----------



## a1uc

Increased transparency tremendously, textures of the instrument more on display, and lowered the noise floor. Sounds like the amp blew its nose and expresses more freely. This was a huge improvement.
  
The only other thing that will be done is the Furutech IEC which will ship this week


----------



## a1uc

Anyone try these yet ?
  
http://www.partsconnexion.com/NOS-79665.html


----------



## jc9394

a1uc said:


> Anyone try these yet ?
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/NOS-79665.html


 
  
  
 Don't waste on finding a 6080, the only one you need is GEC.  Spend your time rolling on 5998 or 7236 instead.


----------



## a1uc

jc9394 said:


> Don't waste on finding a 6080, the only one you need is GEC.  Spend your time rolling on 5998 or 7236 instead.


 

 I have a pair of 6080's already and a pair of 7236's Sylvania   how does the 5998 compare to the 7236 ? 
  
  
 Are talking these       http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6080-CV8614-GEC-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/262052528418?ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123


----------



## a1uc

As of now Im using the following tubes 
  
  
 Sylvania 7236 
  
 Tungsol  6NS7GT
  
 I have to try these 2 rectifiers yet just got them     Brimar 5R4GY    GZ37/CV378     I have a 4 notch in now and it sounds very good


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> Anyone try these yet ?
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/NOS-79665.html


 
  
 Yip.
  
 Treble rich. Very extended. Not harsh. Good bass. Nice warmth. I feel people that like the GEC6080 would like this. If it was a blind test they would not know the difference. A good tube. I have both and have compared.
  
 Not my thing as I like it a lot darker. That's just my stupid taste. So I use GE6AS7GA.


jc9394 said:


> Don't waste on finding a 6080, the only one you need is GEC.  Spend your time rolling on 5998 or 7236 instead.


 
  
 No way. There are some very nice 6080 and 6AS7G type tubes. The Tung-Sol 7236 that I own would be one of the worst overpriced tubes I own. Muddied unclear bass. Most 6080's are cleaner.


----------



## a1uc

I like the Brimar 5R4GY over the GZ37/CV378 
Any other rectifiers ? The 4 notch mallard and Brimar win so far


----------



## joseph69

a1uc said:


> I like the Brimar 5R4GY over the GZ37/CV378
> Any other rectifiers ? The 4 notch mallard and Brimar win so far


 
  U.S.A.F. United Electric 596


----------



## a1uc

Source ?


----------



## MIKELAP

a1uc said:


> I like the Brimar 5R4GY over the GZ37/CV378
> Any other rectifiers ? The 4 notch mallard and Brimar win so far


 
 RK60 maybe


----------



## a1uc

Yours ?


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> Increased transparency tremendously, textures of the instrument more on display, and lowered the noise floor. Sounds like the amp blew its nose and expresses more freely. This was a huge improvement.
> 
> The only other thing that will be done is the Furutech IEC which will ship this week


 
 Thanks for the update!  Sounds like a worth while upgrade and the Jupiter caps are somewhat reasonable in price.


----------



## jc9394

badas said:


> No way. *There are some very nice 6080 and 6AS7G type tubes.* The Tung-Sol 7236 that I own would be one of the worst overpriced tubes I own. Muddied unclear bass. Most 6080's are cleaner.


 
  
 I agreed on 6AS7G but not on 6080.


----------



## Badas

jc9394 said:


> I agreed on 6AS7G but not on 6080.


 

 What's wrong with Mullard and GEC 6080? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 They are fabulous.


----------



## abvolt

joedoe said:


> New member of the Woo-tang clan checking in:
> 
> WA7 + WA7tp: EH Gold Pins in the amp, NOS GE 5-star JG5814a in the power supply, Volex 17604 power cable, and StraightWire USB cable. The RS1s and HE500s are eating this up!


 
 very cool amp I owned one for about a year loved it have you checked out the mullard cv4003 yet made a world of difference for me..


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> What's wrong with Mullard and GEC 6080?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Couldn't agree more mullard 6080's are great, still trying to talk myself into a pair a gec 6as7g's but the cheapskate in me says no way lol..


----------



## whirlwind

abvolt said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > What's wrong with Mullard and GEC 6080?
> ...


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Couldn't agree more mullard 6080's are great, still trying to talk myself into a pair a gec 6as7g's *but the cheapskate in me says no way* lol..


 

 I'm with ya on that one bud.


----------



## jhljhl

we 274b, gec 6sa7g, mullard ecc31 is one the best combinations I've heard for the hd800 along with we422a/we421a/ts bgrp 6f8g etc.


----------



## Contrails

> we 274b, gec 6sa7g, mullard ecc31


 
  
 That's tube porn right there! Enjoy.  Pics would be nice too to tease the rest of us!


----------



## jhljhl

Not the best pic. (and yes time for another dusting...)


----------



## jhljhl

I read in another thread- can't find at the moment but 5998 and 421a are spec'd differently from their mfr data sheet.  So they are different - as different then as a e88cc from an e188cc and ecc88 etc?


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Not the best pic. (and yes time for another dusting...)




Wow, that is dusty.

My wife gave me this soft makeup brush for dusting my WA22. She saw me trying to dust it and came back with it. 

It works really well. I use it to clean the tone arm on my Turn table as well.


----------



## Aussie Lou

Mrs.Badas you are extremely loving and supportive of your husbands passion.
  
 Nothing like a bit of Kiwi improvisation as well.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Wow, that is dusty.
> 
> My wife gave me this soft makeup brush for dusting my WA22. She saw me trying to dust it and came back with it.
> 
> It works really well. I use it to clean the tone arm on my Turn table as well.


 
  
  
 The flash made it more apparent in a generally dark office.  But I used my duster last night. 
 http://swiffer.com/en-us/shop-products/dusting/swiffer-dusters-cleaner-starter-kit


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, that is dusty.
> ...


 
 For those hard to reach places


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Now we are talking.


----------



## isquirrel

Received this little kit yesterday, should make things much easier to clean, the little tube socket brushes are cool.
  
 its on Amazon $25
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C0NTMPE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Received this little kit yesterday, should make things much easier to clean, the little tube socket brushes are cool.
> 
> its on Amazon $25
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C0NTMPE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


 

  Ordered.
  
 I had some movies I wanted anyway. So added it to the order.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Ordered.
> 
> I had some movies I wanted anyway. So added it to the order.


 

 Good stuff Dono, how is your vinyl collection going?


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Good stuff Dono, how is your vinyl collection going?


 

 I'm still collecting and enjoying.
 However I am slowing down. I find vinyl is great for speakers but I don't enjoy it for headphones.
  
 So in that way it is limiting.
  
 99% of my listening is HP's.
 So I'm really only collecting vinyl records that I would prefer to listen on speakers. Usually with others.


----------



## jhljhl

mikelap said:


> For those hard to reach places






Yeah that's what I think for computer stuff.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

jhljhl said:


> we 274b, gec 6sa7g, mullard ecc31 is one the best combinations I've heard for the hd800 along with we422a/we421a/ts bgrp 6f8g etc.


 

 What's the best place to find GEC 6SA7G?


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> *However I am slowing down. **I find vinyl is great for speakers but I don't enjoy it for headphones.*


 
  
 +1 ... I recently experienced that at a dealer's show room... they set me up with a TOTL turn-table, et al. with an album that I really know well and I was surprised at what I heard.
  
 I have a Thorens turntable that I purchased in 1985 that I am going to update with a new cart to play around with (I have boxes of LPs from way back), but I have low expectations, with respect to sound quality.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Well, after close to 1000 hrs, one of my Elrog 300Bs gave out.
  
 Anyone got any luck dealing with Elrog directly on this issue?  Hopeless cause, but I will try.  Moving to Takatsuki camp!


----------



## isquirrel

I have some news on the Elrog's, I was digging around for some as my faulty set has still bot replaced and the Australian Distributor does not return any of my phone calls or emails 4 months after I have returned the tubes to him for warranty. 
  
 This is the info I found:
  

  

  


 Hope that helps, I am not going to give up getting my tubes replaced, 4 months with zero follow up or communication is terrible customer service. I wish you better luck than I have had.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Thanks for the info.  Got this from Gary Alpern from True Audiophile (U.S. Elrog ex-distributor) and this is his rely email:
  
_"We're asking all customers to post in this forum and post all your experience with Elrog so there is a public forum to keep an open record of their response: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1425629556&openflup&345&4#345_
  
_Then email the Elrog engineer (Matthias) who said they would honor the warranty: "We will replace the failing tubes, doesn't matter they where fail 2days, 2month or 2years post warranty".…..  klepper@email.de"_
  
 I'll get in touch with Elrog to see if I can resolve this issue directly with them.  The Elrogs do sound amazing though...


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> I have some news on the Elrog's, I was digging around for some as my faulty set has still bot replaced and the Australian Distributor does not return any of my phone calls or emails 4 months after I have returned the tubes to him for warranty.
> 
> This is the info I found:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow. Elrog have been struck off my list of potential tube purchases _*forever *_based on this.
  
 With the robust and rock solid Takatsukis on the market I just can't be bothered taking that sort of a risk.
  
 EDIT - and thanks for sharing.


----------



## Khragon

True Audiophile is now an ex Elrog distributor, Elrog "fired" them because they fought to get the tube fixed and replaced.  Ridiculous if you ask me, Elrog part of the deal was to honor their warranty and they are refusing to respond in a timely manner.  I finally received my replacement after 4 months of waiting, I hope they really fix the problem.  Please keep us in the loop on your RMA request effort.


----------



## TonyNewman

I hope Elrog realise that playing such games gets wide coverage amongst potential customers.
  
 They might be able to bully distributors, but customers will read this sort of thing and vote with their wallets.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Scanned through the thread posts from Audiogon, Elrog still maintained that our amps operate at "wrong points" for the tubes (high B+, AC not DC filament,wrong cathode resistor values, blah blah blah).  With the perception that nothing's wrong with their tubes, don't know if the problem got fixed...
  
 Good that you got T.A. on your back to get a replacement (TubeUSA is now their US distributor).  It's me against them now, so may be I'll end up with a $1200 dud...(may run one ER and one Tak? haha)


----------



## isquirrel

Well wish you all the best with that. I can't believe the Australian Importer who was all nice and friendly until its come time to rectify this and I can understand that the manufacturers sen too be very difficult but communicate guys really, Its not just us, they are having issues with all sorts of amps. The suggestion that its one particular brand thats causing all the issues is a bit much.


----------



## fhuang

tonynewman said:


> I hope Elrog realise that playing such games gets wide coverage amongst potential customers.
> 
> They might be able to bully distributors, but customers will read this sort of thing and vote with their wallets.


 
  
  
 yes it's very true and all this is holding me back and i consider myself a potential customer.  i even tried to find and found a distributor here in hong kong before


----------



## Porteroso

I think that many of us will never buy Elrogs based upon this. They can claim that people are not using them the right way, but the right way for any tube is to stick it into a tube amp that is designed for that tube specification.... I have a hard time believing that any reputed 300B amp would operate tubes that expensive the wrong way, at least stock.
  
 The Elrog story was interesting for a time. No doubt they do sound amazing, no matter how long they last. Thankfully we've had several here run the Takatsukis against the Elrogs and report that they hold up well. I really am grateful both for being too poor to invest in Elrogs early, and for the people who did test them


----------



## musicman59

sko0bydoo said:


> Well, after close to 1000 hrs, one of my Elrog 300Bs gave out.
> 
> Anyone got any luck dealing with Elrog directly on this issue?  Hopeless cause, but I will try.  Moving to Takatsuki camp!


 
 The Elrog tubes have 6 months warranty. One of my tubes failed just short of the 6 months and contacted True Audiophile. They direct me to contact Elrog directly and ship the tubes to Germany with tracking number and keep them posted. They have a contact in Germany that has helped putting pressure on Elrog to make warranties good. I communicated directly with Matthias at Elrog and got my replacement tubes shipped within a few days. They clam the root cause of the failures are corrected in production so these new tubes are good.
  
 In the meantime I went in a different direction and will sell these new tubes at a discounted price that's why I have not even open the box as received back from Elrog.


----------



## 2359glenn

tonynewman said:


> I hope Elrog realise that playing such games gets wide coverage amongst potential customers.
> 
> They might be able to bully distributors, but customers will read this sort of thing and vote with their wallets.


 

 Does Elrog list the specs of there tube Like
 Max Plate voltage
 Max Plate current


----------



## Khragon

2359glenn said:


> Does Elrog list the specs of there tube Like
> Max Plate voltage
> Max Plate current




Found this:
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.audionote.com.au/Audio_Note_Australia/Elrog_-_Vacuum_Tubes_files/ER300B_Datasheet.pdf&sa=U&ved=0CA4QFjABahUKEwjSrY3qybPIAhVFKYgKHXlKAjk&sig2=3bxllZ9o94xuJWDhh6Je9Q&usg=AFQjCNH2jgjgKr_9Dp7qyWUFRcVKFLb_Vw


----------



## joseph69

Does anyone know Woo Audios amplifier warranty period from original purchase date?
 I can't seem to find their warranty period on their FAQ…it only states information about returns/exchanges, but I don't see anything about a warranty, am I missing something?


----------



## isquirrel

2359glenn said:


> Does Elrog list the specs of there tube Like
> Max Plate voltage
> Max Plate current


 

 Yes, let me dig around for you I have them here somewhere


----------



## isquirrel

Lets see here, its actually in a pdf Glenn so if you PM with your email I can send it to you.
  
 But the short version is 
  
    The thoriated tungsten filament 
 The filament of the ER300B has been designed such that it is compatible to the original 300B specification. 
 In order to be able to use thoriated tungsten, some parameters needed to be deviated from the 300B specs. These are plate resistance and amplification factor. Plate resistance is slightly taller. While the 300B specifies 700 Ohms, the ER300B plate resistance is 950 Ohms. The amplification factor has been reduced to 3.3 from the 3.8 of the 300B specification. Since transconductance is directly related to these two parameters the ER300B has a transconductance of 3300 micromhos. 
 This compromise was necessary to keep the original 5V @1.2A specification. 
 Compatibility with other 300B types 
 The ER300B is compatible for use in any properly designed 300B amplifier which operates the tube within the allowed limits. It can be used in Single Ended, Parallel Single Ended and Push-Pull amplifiers. 



    Some amplifiers are designed for ‘uprated’ 300B type tubes, which run at higher maximum plate dissipation than standard 300B tubes. The ER300B is not recommended for use in such amplifiers. If in doubt please refer to the technical specifications of your amplifier or consult the manufacturer of your amplifier. 
 The ER300B is slightly higher than other 300B types. If your amplifier has little clearance above the tubes, the ER300B might not fit. Please refer to the datasheet for exact physical dimensions. 
 The use of the ER300B in a typical 300B type amplifier will result in slightly reduced gain and in about 25% less output power. The actual numbers will depend on the amplifier. While this might appear as a disadvantage the impact in real life is minor. Due to the logarithmic behavior of the human hearing, the reduced output power is negligible. The loss in gain can be compensated by increasing the volume slightly on the volume control of the amplifier or preamplifier. Typically a 2dB increase will result in the same output level as with other 300B tubes. 
 We think the superior sound quality of the ER300B is well worth this compromise. 
 Optimal use of the ER300B 
 To achieve optimum sound results we recommend the use of DC filament voltage. Due to the different thermal properties of thoriated tungsten, AC filament voltage can result in higher residual hum at the amplifier output. This can be evident with highly efficient speakers. 
 Due to the higher plate resistance of the ER300B we recommend to load the tube with 3.5k or more. The ER300B will work with lower plate loads but this might result in a decreased damping factor. The impact of this on sound quality will depend on the output transformer and speakers used. 
 As can be seen in the datasheet, the ER300B is capable of much higher plate voltage than other 300B tubes. If an amplifier is specifically designed for the ER300B it is possible to take advantage of this higher plate voltage capability and to achieve higher power output compared to the use in typical 300B amplifiers. Please refer to the datasheet for suggested operating points. 
 Life time 
 The life time of a tube depends on the operating conditions. Important factors for a long lifetime are filament voltage and plate dissipation. The filament voltage should be kept as close to the nominal value of 5V as possible. 
 When used at nominal filament voltage and well below maximum plate dissipation the tube can last many years. 



    To prevent physical damage of the filaments avoid frequent on/off cycling of the amplifier. Don’t remove the tubes from the amplifier when they are still hot. Allow 15 minutes of cooling before changing tubes. Avoid excessive mechanical shocks when handling the tubes.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Holysh**, the Taks do sound incredible!  
  
 Brighter than the ER300B.  Bass is more prominent; extension is clear and deep.  Treble is more forward.  Mid is not as syrupy as the ER, but just a tag bit.  Just start burning the tubes; expect to improve when fully burnt-in


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> Holysh**, the Taks do sound incredible!
> 
> Brighter than the ER300B.  Bass is more prominent; extension is clear and deep.  Treble is more forward.  Mid is not as syrupy as the ER, but just a tag bit.  Just start burning the tubes; expect to improve when fully burnt-in


 
  
 They are superb tubes. Expect a bumpy ride until they fully settle.


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> RK60 maybe



Yes for price great. Near very near 596. 
5r4 brimars are great. After these it's big bucks 200-500 a tube. We422 GEC u52 cossor gz37 fat bottle


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Does anyone know Woo Audios amplifier warranty period from original purchase date?
> I can't seem to find their warranty period on their FAQ…it only states information about returns/exchanges, but I don't see anything about a warranty, am I missing something?



One year.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> One year.


 
 Thank you very much.


----------



## a1uc

So what seems to be the best rectifier for the WA 22 ? cost aside 


So far I cant find nothing I like over the GZ34/5AR4 MULLARD NOS 1962 BLACKBURN DOUBLE O that I'm using

I also tried these 

Brimar 5R4GY 

Mullard GZ37 CV378


I did come across a DOUBLE TRIODE HEINTZ KAUFMANN 5998 which looks real interesting


----------



## jhljhl

a1uc said:


> So what seems to be the best rectifier for the WA 22 ? cost aside
> 
> 
> So far I cant find nothing I like over the GZ34/5AR4 MULLARD NOS 1962 BLACKBURN DOUBLE O that I'm using
> ...


 

 WE 422a and 274b in my experience.  And with the latter -Oh would you look a here I have a spare to sell too....


----------



## Contrails

I had the pleasure of meeting Badas yesterday and had the chance to listen to his WA22.  We both own LCD-X and needless to say all the listening was done with the X.  His headphone rig is very well sorted and needless to say sounds sublime (his home theatre setup is fantabulous).  We were also using an unbalanced source and Badas's WA22 does not have the phase splitters. The four-pin XLR output was being used with the stock XLR Audeze cable.
  
 My first reactions were picking up my jaw from my floor, the soundstage of the WA22 is really special especially when I am used to listening via a V200 amp.  Second is the magic of the tubes! V200 is a warm and fairly transparent amp but lacks the tube magic.  Some people have said the LCD-X having slightly recessed mids and IMO a tube amp like the WA22 really brings them out/balances them on the LCD-X.  The WA22 really makes you feel the music, especially with the X.  
  
 There are some really good reviews online already on the WA22.  But a few people have mentioned the amp sounding laid back and lacking Bass impact or Bass being lean.  I honestly think this is more of a headphone and tube issue.  IMO, the WA22 has a very balanced sound (depending on tubes used) so if the track has bass, it will come through, just like the V200 with the LCD-X  Being a tube amp, yes it is slower than the V200 (a tad slower but not as bad as La Figarro 339)  but I would say this was the only negative against the WA22.  And in saying that, the rest was definitely a step above the V200.  I was impressed by this amp and it's definitely on my wish list. 
  
 A big thanks to Badas!


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> I had the pleasure of meeting Badas yesterday and had the chance to listen to his WA22.  We both own LCD-X and needless to say all the listening was done with the X.  His headphone rig is very well sorted and needless to say sounds sublime (his home theatre setup is fantabulous).  We were also using an unbalanced source and Badas's WA22 does not have the phase splitters. The four-pin XLR output was being used with the stock XLR Audeze cable.
> 
> My first reactions were picking up my jaw from my floor, the soundstage of the WA22 is really special especially when I am used to listening via a V200 amp.  Second is the magic of the tubes! V200 is a warm and fairly transparent amp but lacks the tube magic.  Some people have said the LCD-X having slightly recessed mids and IMO a tube amp like the WA22 really brings them out/balances them on the LCD-X.  The WA22 really makes you feel the music, especially with the X.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are welcome Contrails,
  
 It is always great to meet a like minded HP enthusiast. 
  
 I agree with the WA22 statement. I have never felt it had a lack of bass. I really don't know where that information came from or why it took hold. I have always compared to my SS rig and it is close enough not to tell a bass difference.
  
 I feel a little guilty that we were kinda pushed for time. I will give you a bigger listen if you like. Next time I have a wife and kids free week night I will get in contact. Might get time to get those kick ass speakers running as well. 2 x 300watt stereo speakers (bi-amped), 2 x 1000watt SVS subs and 1 x 500watts Polk sub.


----------



## a1uc

contrails said:


> I had the pleasure of meeting Badas yesterday and had the chance to listen to his WA22.  We both own LCD-X and needless to say all the listening was done with the X.  His headphone rig is very well sorted and needless to say sounds sublime (his home theatre setup is fantabulous).  We were also using an unbalanced source and Badas's WA22 does not have the phase splitters. The four-pin XLR output was being used with the stock XLR Audeze cable.
> 
> My first reactions were picking up my jaw from my floor, the soundstage of the WA22 is really special especially when I am used to listening via a V200 amp.  Second is the magic of the tubes! V200 is a warm and fairly transparent amp but lacks the tube magic.  Some people have said the LCD-X having slightly recessed mids and IMO a tube amp like the WA22 really brings them out/balances them on the LCD-X.  The WA22 really makes you feel the music, especially with the X.
> 
> ...


 
 I found my bass issue in the tubes which is all good now , I would love to hear the LCD-X vs my current HD800's


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> I found my bass issue in the tubes which is all good now , I would love to hear the LCD-X vs my current HD800's



Could be mine too. 
Maybe sell the 800s and get lcd?


----------



## Badas

Bass is certainly not lacking when you use LCD-3 or X with the WA22.
  
 I personally couldn't take more.
  
 I found it not tube dependent either.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Bass is certainly not lacking when you use LCD-3 or X with the WA22.
> 
> I personally couldn't take more.
> 
> I found it not tube dependent either.



Maybe I really need to try the 800 mod and see if it helps


----------



## a1uc

I just bought a pair of LCD-X  going to compare to my 800's


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Maybe I really need to try the 800 mod and see if it helps


 

 That only helps the treble.


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> That only helps the treble.


 
 yeah they sure dont need more of that


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> yeah they sure dont need more of that


 

 It smooths and slightly reduces. It doesn't add more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It doesn't add more bass tho.


----------



## jhljhl

Hi does anyone know if their is a difference in sound between the wa-5 and wa-5le first (but also second) generation?


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> Hi does anyone know if their is a difference in sound between the wa-5 and wa-5le first (but also second) generation?




There's an article comparing the 2 over at The Part Time Audiophile by Scott Hull, sorry don't have the link handy


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> It smooths and slightly reduces. It doesn't add more. :eek:
> 
> It doesn't add more bass tho.




Do you own the 800's and LCD-X


----------



## MIKELAP

a1uc said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > That only helps the treble.
> ...


 
 To cure that work in a noisy Machine Shop for several decades and meanwhile listen to loud music ,no problem here lol


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> There's an article comparing the 2 over at The Part Time Audiophile by Scott Hull, sorry don't have the link handy


 

 Thanks but I also mean between sound differences with the wa5 and wa5le.


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> Do you own the 800's and LCD-X


 
  
 No. I own LCD-3 and X.
  
 However I have done extensive listening to Tony's modded HD800 on his and my gear.


----------



## Audiomania2

Hi everyone,
 I just bought a used WA6 for my grado's and some how I feel the bass is too distorted.
 Sounds like I am listening to high gain amp.
 Currently I am using only stock tubes.
 Do you guys think switching the Rectifier to Sophia princess will help?
 Some say I also need to switch Driver / Power tubes too.
 Any suggestion? I need to bring back the tight bass of grado's.


----------



## TonyNewman

audiomania2 said:


> ... *Currently I am using only stock tubes.*
> ...


 
  
 That looks like the problem right there. The stock tubes are often underwhelming, to say the least.
  
 I would look to upgrade the tubes to something like Brimar rectifier + NU 6F8Gs (for example). That will lift the WA6 performance several notches. There are plenty of other tube options out there - this one works for me.


----------



## joseph69

Several posts ago I said I wouldn't buy the NU-6F8G's again (although they are fantastic) due to them being very noisy in my WA6 (which I thought I fixed with Deoxit…didn't work) and none of my other tubes were noisy at all. Well, last week I ordered another pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  (I should never say never again) from a seller in the U.K. ( NU-matched 1942) and needless to say they are dead silent! This entire time I was having issues with the first set I bought…should have returned them for my money back instead of accepting replacements in the first place.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Several posts ago I said I wouldn't buy the NU-6F8G's again (although they are fantastic) due to them being very noisy in my WA6 (which I thought I fixed with Deoxit…didn't work) and none of my other tubes were noisy at all. Well, last week I ordered another pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have rolled and own a few sets of NU. Never had a noisy one.
  
 I know the 6F can be noisy in the WA5 however that is fixed by using the 6C.


----------



## TonyNewman

I should have pointed out there is some risk with the NUs. Roughly 20% of mine have been noisy in my WA6.
  
 When not noisy they are superb sounding, but there is always that risk.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I have rolled and own a few sets of NU. Never had a noisy one.


 


tonynewman said:


> When not noisy they are superb sounding, but there is always that risk.


 
 I guess (well I now know) that unfortunately I got a bad pair…twice because the first ones were exchanged. But like I said these are dead silent…thank goodness!


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Hi does anyone know if their is a difference in sound between the wa-5 and wa-5le first (but also second) generation?



Are you thinking about getting one?


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Are you thinking about getting one?


 

 The jeopardy theme is playing in the background- "yes maybe not sure yet" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Shaffer

I don't know if anyone has tried Type 80 and #83V rectifiers. The top row shows a number of Type 80s from the 40s to the early-60s GT bottle with a 1275 (ST shape) on the far right. It's a lower powered version of a Type 80.

The bottom row shows a pair of #83V and a Brimar 5Z4GY and TS6AS7G for scale. From what I've read, the #83V has the lowest Vdrop after a GZ34, I've found these rectifiers to work best with 6CY7 and some make a synergistic combo with 6EW7, albeit without the fireworks of a 6CY7. All in a WA6.


----------



## 3083joe

shaffer said:


> I don't know if anyone has tried Type 80 and #83V rectifiers. The top row shows a number of Type 80s from the 40s to the early-60s GT bottle with a 1275 (ST shape) on the far right. It's a lower powered version of a Type 80.
> 
> The bottom row shows a pair of #83V and a Brimar 5Z4GY and TS6AS7G for scale. From what I've read, the #83V has the lowest Vdrop after a GZ34, I've found these rectifiers to work best with 6CY7 and some make a synergistic combo with 6EW7, albeit without the fireworks of a 6CY7. All in a WA6.


 

 What kinda adapter you using?


----------



## Shaffer

3083joe said:


> What kinda adapter you using?




One very similar to this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-WE274A-5Z3-TO-WE274B-5U4G-GZ34-5AR4-Tube-converter-adapter-/201212386652?hash=item2ed9315d5c


----------



## 3083joe

shaffer said:


> One very similar to this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-WE274A-5Z3-TO-WE274B-5U4G-GZ34-5AR4-Tube-converter-adapter-/201212386652?hash=item2ed9315d5c



Cool, I have 2 of these. I use for my we274a


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Has anyone used Tung-Sol BG 6F8Gs in the WA6? According to Woo, it isn't supported, though I've seen folks mention it before.


----------



## 3083joe

indiegradofan said:


> Has anyone used Tung-Sol BG 6F8Gs in the WA6? According to Woo, it isn't supported, though I've seen folks mention it before.



Yes they work great with adapters. 
Email woo they will tell you themselves. 
6c8g will work also and a lot cheaper


----------



## IndieGradoFan

3083joe said:


> Yes they work great with adapters.
> Email woo they will tell you themselves.
> 6c8g will work also and a lot cheaper


 

 I thought so, but I emailed Woo about a 6F8G > 6DE7 adapter so I wouldn't need to stack 6F8G > 6SN7 > 6DE7 and Mike replied, saying:
  


> 6F8G is _not_ compatible with WA6. Below is a link to our tubes compatibility chart for your reference.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


 

  
 ...and oddly, the 6F8G is now listed in the chart under WA6. I wonder if Woo updated the chart today, because I don't remember seeing it there after I got that response from Mike.


----------



## 3083joe

indiegradofan said:


> I thought so, but I emailed Woo about a 6F8G > 6DE7 adapter so I wouldn't need to stack 6F8G > 6SN7 > 6DE7 and Mike replied, saying:
> 
> 
> ...and oddly, the 6F8G is now listed in the chart under WA6. I wonder if Woo updated the chart today, because I don't remember seeing it there after I got that response from Mike.



Strange. 
Well hit up 2359glenn
For adapters. His are real nice or eBay tho they are not nearly as nice. I've used both. I think eBay would be 2 adapter tho. Stock to 6sn7 then 6sn7 to 6f8g 
Glenn's are straight stock to 6f8g


----------



## MIKELAP

indiegradofan said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Yes they work great with adapters.
> ...


 
 I printed the chart a few days ago and it wasnt there like you say they probably added it today


----------



## jhljhl

mikelap said:


> I printed the chart a few days ago and it wasnt there like you say they probably added it today


 

 Hi Mike I was looking at your signature profile- I see you have a few Woo amps - have you thought of moving up to a WA5 or wa5le?  I wonder are the ecc31,32,33,34,35 compatible with them?  I see an upgraded wa5le on audiogon...


----------



## MIKELAP

jhljhl said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I printed the chart a few days ago and it wasnt there like you say they probably added it today
> ...


 
  Dont think ill ever go there just thinking of those 300B Tak's and i feel weak lol .


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Scot from Part-time Audiophile reviewed the new WA5-LE against classic version.


----------



## jhljhl

hifiguy528 said:


> Scot from Part-time Audiophile reviewed the new WA5-LE against classic version.


 

 He does not seem to like the lcd3f through the v1 wa5le.  Anyone else? 
  
 Also, is there a difference between v1 wa5 and wa5le in the sound sig of course through s.e. output?


----------



## magiccabbage

badas said:


> I have rolled and own a few sets of NU. Never had a noisy one.
> 
> I know the 6F can be noisy in the WA5 however that is fixed by using the 6C.


 
 you can say that again ... mine are noisy from time to time


----------



## IndieGradoFan

My Tung-Sol/Chatham JAN 6AS7Gs have arrived! They replaced a pair of TS5998 that had acted up once prior. I'm not sure which I prefer, though the 6AS7Gs only have 2 hours on them so far so it is hardly a fair comparison. With the LCD-X, I really like the lower gain of the 6AS7G -- the TS5998 and Sylvania 7236 have too much gain for the LCD-X. Next up is replacing the Psvane WE274 1:1 with a WE422A, which should arrive tomorrow. With this tube setup, I think I'm good for a long, long while.


----------



## Contrails

Ladies and gents, I have just put the deposit down for a Black WA22! I have also requested to have a preamp function ($350 extra).  Can not wait!


----------



## Aussie Lou

contrails said:


> Ladies and gents, I have just put the deposit down for a Black WA22! I have also requested to have a preamp function ($350 extra).  Can not wait!


 

 Goodo! That's great news.
  
 Did you end up dealing through A2A or did you purchase elsewhere?


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Ladies and gents, I have just put the deposit down for a Black WA22! I have also requested to have a preamp function ($350 extra).  Can not wait!




Congrats. 

Remember to come and get some tubes to try. I ha a range.


----------



## Raika

I'll take The Moon amp over any woo amp . End of the story .


----------



## Stereolab42

raika said:


> I'll take The Moon amp over any woo amp . End of the story .


 
  
 And hopefully also the end of your posting in this thread...


----------



## a1uc

raika said:


> I'll take The Moon amp over any woo amp . End of the story .


 
 And Ill take my Totaldac over a Moon


----------



## a1uc

LCD-X should be here any minute cant wait to try them


----------



## 3083joe

stereolab42 said:


> And hopefully also the end of your posting in this thread...




Lol.


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> LCD-X should be here any minute cant wait to try them



Let me know. Might switch.


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> Let me know. Might switch.


joe, aren't you going to wait for the LCD-4's to come out?


----------



## 3083joe

bpcans said:


> joe, aren't you going to wait for the LCD-4's to come out?



Doubt it. Going to be expensive. But never know. Like my 800s but a little lean on base. 700s had much more


----------



## bpcans

3083joe said:


> Doubt it. Going to be expensive. But never know. Like my 800s but a little lean on base. 700s had much more


Yes, expensive indeed. I hear around $4K, which would put them almost in Stax-009 range. I found the HD-800's to be technically superior and a great reference hp, but the Senn 700's were more enjoyable, and easier, to listen to.


----------



## Contrails

> Congrats.
> 
> Remember to come and get some tubes to try. I ha a range


 
  
 Really appreciated thank you!
  


> LCD-X should be here any minute cant wait to try them


 
  
 Very niiiiccceeee.


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> LCD-X should be here any minute cant wait to try them







3083joe said:


> Let me know. Might switch.







bpcans said:


> Yes, expensive indeed. I hear around $4K, which would put them almost in Stax-009 range. I found the HD-800's to be technically superior and a great reference hp, but the Senn 700's were more enjoyable, and easier, to listen to.




It will be interesting to see what the impression of the LCD-X is. Definitely a thicker sound than the HD700 and HD800. I find it has ample treble for my ears. Some coming from the HD800 might get a shock and find it lean. Bass is never a problem. It has stacks of it and is always clean.


----------



## a1uc

Well I got the LCD-X and only had 30 min to listen  wow   I will have to compare to my HD800 once my friend returns them . 
  
 From what I remember of the HD800  I think I might really like the LCD-X more , I am also afraid they might both be keepers .
  
 One thing for sure is the LCD-X has bass I wouldnt want more or less seemed about perfect , I didnt notice and lack of vocals either 
 I really think these are keepers .... more to come in about a week


----------



## longbowbbs

a1uc said:


> Well I got the LCD-X and only had 30 min to listen  wow   I will have to compare to my HD800 once my friend returns them .
> 
> From what I remember of the HD800  I think I might really like the LCD-X more , I am also afraid they might both be keepers .
> 
> ...


 
 I have both....It was the only choice really.....Sorry for your wallet!


----------



## ru4music

raika said:


> I'll take The Moon amp over any woo amp . End of the story .


 
 Here's your Moon, ENJOY!


----------



## ru4music

contrails said:


> Ladies and gents, I have just put the deposit down for a Black WA22! I have also requested to have a preamp function ($350 extra).  Can not wait!


 

 Congrats!


----------



## a1uc

Thinking of trying a Phonitor 2.


----------



## Stereolab42

a1uc said:


> Thinking of trying a Phonitor 2.


 
  
 If I was to buy a solid-state amp that would be the one... cool-looking and configurable analog crossfeed!


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> Thinking of trying a Phonitor 2.


 

 Buying or demoing?  Looks interesting, would you be targeting planar HPs or everything?


----------



## 3083joe

Good evening 
I have now tested a we274 it is well magical. 
Loving it. 
All the good that was in the u52, cossor gz37 fat bottle and we422a all have been placed into the 274. 
What a tube.


----------



## Badas

This snowflake fella (myself) has been searching for some good Motown / Soul music to listen to and really hasn't discovered anything that floats his boat.
  
 I have tried:
  
 Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and B.T Express. There has been some good songs but no album has clicked.
  
 If you have any suggestions please list.
  
 Decided to give Bobby Womack a go.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Good evening
> I have now tested a we274 it is well magical.
> Loving it.
> All the good that was in the u52, cossor gz37 fat bottle and we422a all have been placed into the 274.
> What a tube.


 
  
 I agree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One of the best rectifiers- how about the tak 274?  Anyone know -compare? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


badas said:


> This snowflake fella (myself) has been searching for some good Motown / Soul music to listen to and really hasn't discovered anything that floats his boat.
> 
> I have tried:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe youtube Labi Siffre?  Donny Hathaway? 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COiIC3A0ROM


----------



## Shaffer

badas said:


> This snowflake fella (myself) has been searching for some good Motown / Soul music to listen to and really hasn't discovered anything that floats his boat.
> 
> I have tried:
> 
> ...




Check out Bobby Blue Bland. _Two Steps From The Blues_ and _Members Only_ are accessible starting points. I'd also listen to Wilson Pickett and Otis Redding. There's a lot more; I'm suggesting the more popular offerings. This being said, if _Across 110th Street_ doesn't grab you by your loins, I mean the title cut, perhaps this musical style simply isn't right for you. Happens. For example, I absolutely loathe PBS-style so-called Classical music. It's like sitting in a dentist's chair.



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyPSxS0OIyQ[/VIDEO]


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Maybe youtube Labi Siffre?  Donny Hathaway?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COiIC3A0ROM


 
  
  


shaffer said:


> Check out Bobby Blue Bland. _Two Steps From The Blues_ and _Members Only_ are accessible starting points. I'd also listen to Wilson Pickett and Otis Redding. There's a lot more; I'm suggesting the more popular offerings. This being said, if _Across 110th Street_ doesn't grab you by your loins, I mean the title cut, perhaps this musical style simply isn't right for you. Happens. For example, I absolutely loathe PBS-style so-called Classical music. It's like sitting in a dentist's chair.


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm writing these all down and will be putting them on my buy list.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> This snowflake fella (myself) has been searching for some good Motown / Soul music to listen to and really hasn't discovered anything that floats his boat.
> 
> I have tried:
> 
> ...


 
 Do you like funky music well your going to like this if you do                         http://www.prostudiomasters.com/search?q=nils+landgren#quickview/album/5043


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Do you like funky music well your going to like this if you do                         http://www.prostudiomasters.com/search?q=nils+landgren#quickview/album/5043


 

 Love funk.
  
 I really enjoyed this:
  

  
 We need a thread for this stuff.


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the TA274Bs in my Wa5 - they are amazing. The bass they put through is almost solid state in depth and tightness.
  
 I have never heard the WE274B to compare it with, but other forumites have (like ISquirrel) - their feedback is in this thread. I think I can summarise it as "the WE274B is stunning, but the TA274B is better".


----------



## whirlwind

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Do you like funky music well your going to like this if you do                         http://www.prostudiomasters.com/search?q=nils+landgren#quickview/album/5043
> ...


 
 Rock Candy Funk Party has three albums, I believe....great stuff.


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> I have the TA274Bs in my Wa5 - they are amazing. The bass they put through is almost solid state in depth and tightness.
> 
> I have never heard the WE274B to compare it with, but other forumites have (like ISquirrel) - their feedback is in this thread. I think I can summarise it as "the WE274B is stunning, but the TA274B is better".


 

 I have we274b from 1960s that are "9.1/10" but a 274a from 1950's sounds "9.5/10."  So that's like a 10/10 I guess... that's impressive.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I have we274b from 1960s that are "9.1/10" but a 274a from 1950's sounds "9.5/10."  So that's like a 10/10 I guess... that's impressive.



Yes my 274a is from 56. It is nice. Might get a ta274 next


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Yes my 274a is from 56. It is nice. Might get a ta274 next


 

 Yeah I think the 1950's seem just a bit tighter in the bass and midrange.  I was surprised that it could get that way.  However for example the metal 5ar4 is a little more relaxed but still liquid midrange that is just as good.  They're all excellent to me just a matter of preference I guess.
  
 fyi, I just recently acquired the 50's 274a and was about to post just as I read your post.  The taks must be impressive.


----------



## a1uc

ru4music said:


> Buying or demoing?  Looks interesting, would you be targeting planar HPs or everything?


 
 Was thinking of buying but really dont want to sell my WA22  That I just upgraded


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Yeah I think the 1950's seem just a bit tighter in the bass and midrange.  I was surprised that it could get that way.  However for example the metal 5ar4 is a little more relaxed but still liquid midrange that is just as good.  They're all excellent to me just a matter of preference I guess.
> 
> fyi, I just recently acquired the 50's 274a and was about to post just as I read your post.  The taks must be impressive.



For how good this we274a is, the taks must be unbelievable! About the same price too!


----------



## thunder 99

Just got a WA5LE with Hifiman He1000. Result is pure bliss and I havent gotten any sleep !! WA5 drives HE1000s with impunity and impact.
  
 Looking to get the takas this week, maybe from A2A here in Sydney or from Pricejapan. Eitherway ridiculously expensive. But A2A is approximately 2k AUD more for fart all value.
  
 I tried something different with my circuit, wondering what other people feel - Metrum DAC --> Auralic Taurus MKII --> WA5LE --> Hifiman with silver Townsend Isolda between the DAC and Auralic and Purist Audio Design Provectus Revision cable between the Taurus and WA5LE. Result of this hybrid combo I expect to be very refined extension and imaging with pure bliss in the midrange (stock tubes only).
  
 Other circuits I can probably go are a upsampling DSD DAC rather than a metrum direct to WA5, as the metrum is very analogue sounding and I felt that combined directly with WA5 without something solid state in the middle makes the imaging almost too warm/analogue sounding with loss of definition and a bit of muddyness.
  
 Not sure how much value upgrading the DAC will give in this case ??
  
 Im gonna read back into the forum and see what 6SN7 tubes are popular but I expect takatsuki 300b and 274 tubes to remain in the amp all the time and tube rolling the 6sn7 tubes. Cant wait to read up more!!!


----------



## thunder 99

Hmm so it seems C3Gs have an excellent reputation here - but they need some sort of an adaptor to fit into WA5??
  
 Just had a few questions, I am a complete noob when it comes to tube design, infact dont even know what NOS really means.
  
 Would using this tube void warranty? What are the potential effects of using it in the WA5 and why cannot the WA5 accept it in the first place? Is there some technical reason?
  
 I am interested in trying it out, where do I order Lorenz C3gs and do they come in with an adaptor natively?


----------



## Contrails

Please excuse the noobness in my query, but I am curious about using a tube amp as a preamp.  What happens to the volts and impedance say when you put a tube preamp in between a DAC and Solid state amp?
  
 Let's say a tube preamp has impedance of 8ohm and the next in line solid state amp has 1ohm impedance.  Will they get added up or it remain at 1ohm?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## jazzfan

thunder 99 said:


> Just got a WA5LE with Hifiman He1000. Result is pure bliss and I havent gotten any sleep !! WA5 drives HE1000s with impunity and impact.
> ...


 
  
 Is this the recently upgraded WA5-LE or original? I have the original and am very interested in impressions from owners of the new WA5-LE.


----------



## thunder 99

This is the V2. I listened to the WA5 v1 at a audiophile shop in Sydney - I dont know what the circuit was but at the shop, auditioning with the WA5 v1 I found the sound to have a bit more hiss, bit brighter and not as meaty and I was thinking - its good but would I pay that much.
  
 On the V2, extremely low noise floor, no hiss at all while turning up the volume and I really like the clean sound. Also not as bright so that emphasis is on the lush midrange. I think there's an improvement. Furthermore, experimenting with settings on my headphones, with the Hifiman HE1000 at least, the sound presentation is quite different on different settings - I am using the recommended settings for this headphone and find the sound to be more meaty & full on this setting whereas a bit harsh / more treble focused on others. And I think this customization, for me at least makes it worth having over the V1 which was pretty good but having heard this one as well as considering the more customizable options which let you to more readily adapt different headphones is what makes it worth having and letting you squeeze that extra for your dollar.
  
 Have a read if you havent already - http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/
  
 And I also auditioned it with the Liquid Audio gold, I thought the Woo was miles ahead in terms of sophistication of music it presented, more engaging as well as a more coherent presentation of music where you could actually clearly see patterns and a synergy between different sections of the piece that I was unable to register with the cavali - the music progression actually flowed, an amazing sensation that I have never had before and its so subjective it probably doesnt make too much sense but I think this came from the micro and macro detail and progression on wa5. Maybe it doesnt do bass as well as cavalli, but for long term listening - actually making music more interesting V2 WA5 did an outstanding job. Definitely a step up from V1 but again how much? To me even a 5% increase in quality of sonics, in the above parameters makes it worth having.


----------



## jhljhl

thunder 99 said:


> Just got a WA5LE with Hifiman He1000. Result is pure bliss and I havent gotten any sleep !! WA5 drives HE1000s with impunity and impact.
> 
> Looking to get the takas this week, maybe from A2A here in Sydney or from Pricejapan. Eitherway ridiculously expensive. But A2A is approximately 2k AUD more for fart all value.
> 
> ...


 

 Is it the upgraded or stock wa5le?  How does the he1000 sound through the 4pin out and the single ended?  Which do you prefer?  And what other headphones are you using if any?  Interesting.


----------



## Audiomania2

Hi everyone,
I have WA6 and I can hear hum noise from both amp and Grado headphone.
I tried other tubes but still I can hear the noise.
Is this normal?
I want to hear from other WA6 user.
Thanks!


----------



## Shaffer

I have a WA6. Mine doesn't hum, but it does buzz with some tubes. Actually, at this point, about 2/3 of the signal tubes I own (all stock-fit varies) buzz to some extent. Cleaning the pins helps quite a bit, but in my case doesn't eliminate the buzz in its entirety.


----------



## abvolt

try cleaning up your tubes pins with a  piece of fine emery paper or sand paper that works for me sometimes it's just noisey tubes too..


----------



## joseph69

audiomania2 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I have WA6 and I can hear hum noise from both amp and Grado headphone.
> I tried other tubes but still I can hear the noise.
> Is this normal?
> ...


 
 What tubes are you using?


----------



## bfreedma

audiomania2 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I have WA6 and I can hear hum noise from both amp and Grado headphone.
> I tried other tubes but still I can hear the noise.
> Is this normal?
> ...




Some information that would be helpful in diagnosing the issue:

Unplug all cables except for power. Does it still hum?
Does another amp, if you have on, hum when connected?
Try plugging it into an outlet on another circuit. Does it hum there as well?


----------



## Audiomania2

I am using stock 274B, 5R4GA, Mullard GZ34,  stock 6DE7, 6EW7.
 I tried every possible combination and I still here hum.


----------



## Audiomania2

So what I did is, I tried mutiple power outlet in my house with my amp, furman PST and my grado headphone.
 Still I can still hear the hum noise every time I try.
 Of couse nothing is connect with my amp except power plug and grado headphone.


----------



## Badas

audiomania2 said:


> So what I did is, I tried mutiple power outlet in my house with my amp, furman PST and my grado headphone.
> Still I can still hear the hum noise every time I try.
> Of couse nothing is connect with my amp except power plug and grado headphone.


 
  
 Try a plug with no ground connection. Either that cut off the ground pin. I do that with every plug.
  
 or you can check that your grounding peg for your house is installed properly.


----------



## Shaffer

badas said:


> Try a plug with no ground connection. Either that cut off the ground pin. I do that with every plug.
> 
> or you can check that your grounding peg for your house is installed properly.




A ground loop would result in a _loud _hum. In the US at 60Hz. 50Hz in Europe. No idea what it is in NZ. This isn't to say that he can't be picking up noise via the ground, but more often the return wire is the culprit. 

The amp could be humming for a variety of reasons, not the least of which may lie in the harmonics of the transformer. That is, if the amplifier is actually humming and not buzzing. The guy has to post some feedback, otherwise we could be taking guesses for months.

Edit: typo


----------



## Audiomania2

Something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/45086-3-Prong-2-Prong-Electrical-Adapter/dp/B00166TT3G/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1444772737&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=groundlifter


----------



## Shaffer

audiomania2 said:


> Something like this?
> http://www.amazon.com/45086-3-Prong-2-Prong-Electrical-Adapter/dp/B00166TT3G/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1444772737&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=groundlifter




What happens when a source is connected to the amplifier?


----------



## Audiomania2

shaffer said:


> What happens when a source is connected to the amplifier?


 
 Its the same. No difference. Same hum noise with same loudness.


----------



## Shaffer

audiomania2 said:


> Its the same. No difference. Same hum noise with same loudness.




How loud is the hum? Can you hear it over the music? Or, is it more of a buzz than a hum?


----------



## Badas

shaffer said:


> How loud is the hum? Can you hear it over the music? Or, is it more of a buzz than a hum?


 

 Good point. On some tubes mine produces a low level hum (that comes from the amp and the HP's). I just ignore it.
  
 Other tubes are dead quiet.
  
 I think it is part of having a tube amp. You will get low level noise and hum on occasion.


----------



## Audiomania2

shaffer said:


> How loud is the hum? Can you hear it over the music? Or, is it more of a buzz than a hum?


 
 I guess it is more close to buzz.
 Maybe I am over reacting but I can hear the noise when I turn off the music. It is not that noticeable when I listen music.
 I used to own Crack with hd650 and it was dead silence(probably because of the high impedance hd650).
 One of the head fi member said WA6 is dead silence so I was expecting the same thing but maybe grado is just too sensitive(?)


----------



## Audiomania2

> Quote:


 


badas said:


> Good point. On some tubes mine produces a low level hum (that comes from the amp and the HP's). I just ignore it.
> 
> Other tubes are dead quiet.
> 
> I think it is part of having a tube amp. You will get low level noise and hum on occasion.


 
  
 Well, I guess I have to try more tubes then...


----------



## Shaffer

audiomania2 said:


> I guess it is more close to buzz.
> Maybe I am over reacting but I can hear the noise when I turn off the music. It is not that noticeable when I listen music.
> I used to own Crack with hd650 and it was dead silence(probably because of the high impedance hd650).
> One of the head fi member said WA6 is dead silence so I was expecting the same thing but maybe grado is just too sensitive(?)




Now we're getting somewhere. You're likely correct in assuming that you would not hear the buzz as clearly with higher-z headphones. At least that's been my experience. In my WA6, it's the tubes that buzz. If an adapter is used, some buzz even louder. Which tubes are you using and what other tubes do you have access to?

The WA6 can be relatively silent with the right tubes.


----------



## Audiomania2

shaffer said:


> Now we're getting somewhere. You're likely correct in assuming that you would not hear the buzz as clearly with higher-z headphones. At least that's been my experience. In my WA6, it's the tubes that buzz. If an adapter is used, some buzz even louder. Which tubes are you using and what other tubes do you have access to?
> 
> The WA6 can be relatively silent with the right tubes.


 
 I am using stock 274B, 5R4GA, Mullard GZ34, Electronic 6DE7 and Electronic 6EW7.
 With all the possible combination, I can still hear the noise.


----------



## Shaffer

audiomania2 said:


> I am using stock 274B, 5R4GA, Mullard GZ34, Electronic 6DE7 and Electronic 6EW7.
> With all the possible combination, I can still hear the noise.




The only truly silent, and I mean zero noise, tube that I have heard in my WA6 is a RCA 6EW7 fat bottle. 

GE 6EW7 fat bottles buzz; I have 2 pairs, both buzz. 

All of my 6DE7s buzz other than a Westinghouse pair and it sounds fairly mediocre. The Tung Sol buzzes the least.

All of my 6FD7s buzz. Two pairs, as well - Sylvania and GE. Both are fat bottles.

My personal preference is the 6CY7. I have multiple samples from three manufacturers and all buzz to various degrees. Tung Sol the least, Raytheon and RCA buzz about the same. This tube (6CY7) has the lowest level buzz, compared to all other buzzing stock-fit tubes, IME. That's not saying much, I know.


----------



## Badas

audiomania2 said:


> Well, I guess I have to try more tubes then...


 

 Yes true. Try different tubes.
  
 However I think sound signature is more important than completely quiet.
  
 I would advise to tolerate a small amount of noise and hum. If I sit and listen to my amp only I can hear a tiny amount of noise and hum. However I listen to music. Not my amp.


----------



## joseph69

audiomania2 said:


> I am using stock 274B, 5R4GA, Mullard GZ34,  stock 6DE7, 6EW7.
> I tried every possible combination and I still here hum.


 
 I owned my WA6 for quite some time now, and the only time the transformer hummed is when I first bought the amp, then it stopped completely. Now, I have ZERO noise coming from my amp/tubes/HP's…the only time I had an issue with buzzing was when I purchased the NU-6F8G"s…I exchanged them for another set, and they were also noisy, but not as bad. I recently purchased another set of 1942 NU-6F8G's and they are DEAD quiet…my amp is completely silent. Did you try cleaning the tube pins/sockets like others have suggested?


----------



## Shaffer

Forgive me, I have to disagree. No one should have to tolerate noise and hum, especially at this price level. My Feliks Elise is dead quiet with any tube and lives in a completely different sonic realm than the WA6. Even my Chinese $260 Darkvoice 336SE doesn't buzz. The Woo does. Frankly, I think it's inexcusable.


----------



## joseph69

shaffer said:


> Forgive me, I have to disagree. No one should have to tolerate noise and hum, especially at this price level. My Feliks Elise is dead quiet with any tube and lives in a completely different sonic realm than the WA6. Even my Chinese $260 Darkvoice 336SE doesn't buzz. The Woo does. Frankly,* I think it's inexcusable*.


 
 I couldn't agree with you more!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

All of our amplifiers are 100% tubes so the quality of the tubes is very important.
  
 When troubleshooting noises in the system, please use *ALL stock tubes *and *disconnect the amp from the source *(only AC power and headphones connected). Move the amp away from cell phones, wifi routers, external hard drives, etc.. Use a different power outlet in the house e.g. the kitchen, living room, bedroom. It would be impossible to troubleshoot the amp unless it is isolated from the rest of the system.
  
 There have been many occasions an amp comes in for noise issues and we could not duplicate the problem on the test bench.


----------



## jhljhl

Tung Sol 6sn7 round plates are considered to be some of the best 6sn7. The 6f8g are said to sound similar.  I have tried tong sol rp 6SU7GTY and find they are very smooth sounding.


----------



## Shaffer

hifiguy528 said:


> All of our amplifiers are 100% tubes so the quality of the tubes is very important.
> 
> *When troubleshooting noises in the system, please use ALL stock tubes and disconnect the amp from the source (only AC power and headphones connected). Move the amp away from cell phones, wifi routers, external hard drives, etc.. Use a different power outlet in the house e.g. the kitchen, living room, bedroom. It would be impossible to troubleshoot the amp unless it is isolated from the rest of the system.*
> 
> There have been many occasions an amp comes in for noise issues and we could not duplicate the problem on the test bench.




FWIW, I've done all that, at least the applicable bits. My listening room is fed from its own subpanel with 100A service (it's not a headphone system). A non-contaminated outlet is not an issue. There's no computer in the system, no phone or DAP hooked into it; I mostly use a turntable. The amp buzzes. The only amp I have that buzzes. If you take a look at the posts on the previous page, I outlined which signal tubes were tried and the corresponding results.


----------



## jhljhl

shaffer said:


> FWIW, I've done all that, at least the applicable bits. My listening room is fed from its own subpanel with 100A service (it's not a headphone system). A non-contaminated outlet is not an issue. There's no computer in the system, no phone or DAP hooked into it; I mostly use a turntable. The amp buzzes. The only amp I have that buzzes. If you take a look at the posts on the previous page, I outlined which signal tubes were tried and the corresponding results.


 

 I've had the wa6 and wa6se - I can't recall any noticeable noise problems.  When I did it was fixed by changing outlets.  So either you have a defective unit or there's an input or power outlet issue or bad tubes or there's a problem with the amp design.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Tung Sol 6sn7 round plates are considered to be some of the best 6sn7. The 6f8g are said to sound similar.  I have tried tong sol rp 6SU7GTY and find they are very smooth sounding.


 

 What amp do you try the 6SU7 in?


----------



## Shaffer

jhljhl said:


> I've had the wa6 and wa6se - I can't recall any noticeable noise problems.  When I did it was fixed by changing outlets.  So either you have a defective unit or there's an input or power outlet issue or bad tubes or there's a problem with the amp design.




You can likely guess which option I'd choose.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> What amp do you try the 6SU7 in?


 

 WA22.  I read they are military spec selected 6sl7 with I think 48 hour burn in at factory and with matched plates.


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## Contrails

> I read they are military spec selected 6sl7 with I think 48 hour burn in at factory and with matched plates


 
  
 I also read that the 6su7gty increase the gain by 50 (approx figure).


----------



## 3083joe

thunder 99 said:


> Hmm so it seems C3Gs have an excellent reputation here - but they need some sort of an adaptor to fit into WA5??
> 
> Just had a few questions, I am a complete noob when it comes to tube design, infact dont even know what NOS really means.
> 
> ...



Adapter is need. And it will not void warranty. Best one to talk to about adapters is 2359glenn
Also NOS means new old stock (being they are new but no longer in production and most often have better sound over new production tubes.)


----------



## jhljhl

contrails said:


> I also read that the 6su7gty increase the gain by 50 (approx figure).


 
 http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/237229/ETC2/6SU7GTY.html
 http://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/229315/GEC/6SL7-GT/54/1/6SL7-GT.html
  
  
 I can't see any difference?
  
 The tung sol data sheet same as 6sl7 except different base and match selection?


----------



## 3083joe

Tonight's listen


----------



## Contrails

Jhljhl, I am not trying to prove you wrong, just trying to help with some extra info that's all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Here's what I got told from another member as I am planning on using the 6su7gty.


----------



## jhljhl

contrails said:


> Jhljhl, I am not trying to prove you wrong, just trying to help with some extra info that's all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh I see.  Woo says it is ok to use it in WA22.
  
 I thought you meant the 6su7 was different than the 6sl7 by a factor of 50 - which it isn't.


----------



## jhljhl

double post.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Jhljhl, I am not trying to prove you wrong, just trying to help with some extra info that's all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You definitely get more gain from a 6SL7 rather than a 6SN7.
  
 However you don't get more from the 6SU7 rather than a 6SL7.
  
 Going from a 6SN7 to a 6SL7 was very noticeable in my WA22* The gain wasn't double. If I was guessing I would say 25% more.
  
 *Using the 6C8G version of the 6SL7 tube.


----------



## TonyNewman

Same deal going from 6F8G to 6C8G. about 25-30% more output. Not huge, but noticeable.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> You definitely get more gain from a 6SL7 rather than a 6SN7..


 


tonynewman said:


> Same deal going from 6F8G to 6C8G. about 25-30% more output. Not huge, but noticeable.


 
 Would the 6SL7 use the 6SN7 adapter in the WA6?
 Would the 6C8G use the 6F8G adapter in the WA6?
 Thanks!


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> Would the 6SL7 use the 6SN7 adapter in the WA6?
> Would the 6C8G use the 6F8G adapter in the WA6?
> Thanks!


 
  
 Yep - spot on.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Yep - spot on.


 
 Thank you Tony.


----------



## Badas

Having a crap music session tonight.

Woo is clicking in my right ear. Possible short somewhere? When I raise the volume up and down there is bad clicking between the steps. If I lower the volume completely. Wait a second then raise the volume I get a awful crack through the HP's. Sounds harsh as well. 

Likely a tube crapping out I think. Funny the volume is flunky tho.


----------



## Badas

Okay I found the fault. It was my volume control had something in it or wrong. I sprayed some of that Deoxit fader into the gap. The fader stuff that is designed for volume controls. All clicks and cracks have gone now. 

Puzzled why the amp will need this treatment already. It is only a year old. Maybe that tube heat is harsh on volume pots?


----------



## TonyNewman

I think your solution involves the words "OTL" and "amp" and "Glenn"


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I think your solution involves the words "OTL" and "amp" and "Glenn" :wink_face:




Yip. I'm on the waiting list.

I'm thinking of getting 4 times 6080 power tubes. So I can mix brands and make new flavours of power tubes. Then have sockets for 6SN7 tubes or C3G drivers. It should be fun and keep me busy.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yip. I'm on the waiting list.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting 4 times 6080 power tubes. So I can mix brands and make new flavours of power tubes. Then have sockets for 6SN7 tubes or C3G drivers. It should be fun and keep me busy.


 
  
 Anything that mounts the C3G gets my attention. Love that tube in a way that is mildly indecent


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Okay I found the fault. It was my volume control had something in it or wrong. I sprayed some of that Deoxit fader into the gap. The fader stuff that is designed for volume controls. All clicks and cracks have gone now.
> 
> Puzzled why the amp will need this treatment already. It is only a year old. Maybe that tube heat is harsh on volume pots?


 
 I have 3 amps that use steppers and they all pop or click


----------



## bfreedma

badas said:


> Okay I found the fault. It was my volume control had something in it or wrong. I sprayed some of that Deoxit fader into the gap. The fader stuff that is designed for volume controls. All clicks and cracks have gone now.
> 
> Puzzled why the amp will need this treatment already. It is only a year old. Maybe that tube heat is harsh on volume pots?




Most likely, a bit of dust or something small got into your volume control. I use a can of compressed air when I get the same.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> I have 3 amps that use steppers and they all pop or click


 
  
  


bfreedma said:


> Most likely, a bit of dust or something small got into your volume control. I use a can of compressed air when I get the same.


 
  
 Cool. Thanks guys.
  
 I noticed the volume dial is fixed on using a hex screw. So I will remove and take a look when I get time. Weird that the volume control caused a clicking in the right channel. Even with the volume not touched it was clicking. Like a mis-read or something. As soon as I sprayed DeOxit fader on the clicking in the right channel went away as well.


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> I have 3 amps that use steppers and they all pop or click


 
 I had the Burson Soloist which popped loudly…my GS-1 doesn't pop at all.


----------



## Stereolab42

Elect me dictator of the world and no audiophile will ever have to deal with stepped attenuators again. It will be Edict #1...


----------



## bfreedma

stereolab42 said:


> Elect me dictator of the world and no audiophile will ever have to deal with stepped attenuators again. It will be Edict #1...




Would those of us with existing stepped attenuators be rounded up 

The DACT on my GSX-mk2 is silent. Can I keep it and just pay you a large bribe?


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Elect me dictator of the world and no audiophile will ever have to deal with stepped attenuators again. It will be Edict #1...


 

 I have to agree with you on that one. My Woo WA22 is first device I've had with a stepped attenuator. I have not liked it. A real pain if the volume is too loud and the next step down is too low. Then I've now had these issues from last night.
  
 It is a good move for Woo to now offer a normal volume control.


----------



## Contrails

> I have to agree with you on that one. My Woo WA22 is first device I've had with a stepped attenuator. I have not liked it. A real pain if the volume is too loud and the next step down is too low. Then I've now had these issues from last night.
> 
> It is a good move for Woo to now offer a normal volume control


 
  
 Cheers to Badas, gave me advice on this and I have ordered mine with the smooth volume knob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Stereolab42

bfreedma said:


> Would those of us with existing stepped attenuators be rounded up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Cheers to Badas, gave me advice on this and I have ordered mine with the smooth volume knob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah. Best way to go.
  
 Your WA22 with that volume control and the pre-outs is going to be a nice unit.


----------



## 2359glenn

Change out your stepped attenuator to a Gold Point and no more of this crap.
 That is if you can solder


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Change out your stepped attenuator to a Gold Point and no more of this crap.
> That is if you can solder


 
  
 I would definitely stuff that sort of job up. Then I would be left with a two step volume control. Nothing and full power. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 WA22 will go in the lounge eventually. I will get a proper amp from you for the Home Theater.


----------



## whirlwind

2359glenn said:


> Change out your stepped attenuator to a Gold Point and no more of this crap.
> That is if you can solder


 
 The one you put in my amp Glenn, is the cats meow


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> Change out your stepped attenuator to a Gold Point and no more of this crap.
> That is if you can solder


 

 I have never had any issues with my DACT in my WA2 (I actually like it!)  Sorry guys, someone had to rain on this pity party


----------



## joseph69

ru4music said:


> I have never had any issues with my DACT in my WA2 (I actually like it!)  Sorry guys, someone had to rain on this pity party


 
 I actually like mine in the GS-1 also!


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I have 3 amps that use steppers and they all pop or click
> ...


 
 I still have the Burson Conductor and i changed the stock attenuator because of the poping i had put in a 48 step Khozmo attenuator and still poped but not as loud WA2 is ok but WA22 pops  i never cleaned it maybe its due .


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> I still have the Burson Conductor and i changed the stock attenuator because of the poping i had put in a 48 step Khozmo attenuator and still poped but not as loud WA2 is ok but WA22 pops  i never cleaned it maybe its due .


 
 I couldn't believe how loud the popping was from the Soloist…then when I got the GS-1, I couldn't believe it didn't pop at all!
 Should they really need to be cleaned?


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I still have the Burson Conductor and i changed the stock attenuator because of the poping i had put in a 48 step Khozmo attenuator and still poped but not as loud WA2 is ok but WA22 pops  i never cleaned it maybe its due .
> ...


 
 i wouldnt think so and  if i remember correctly the guy from PCX told me it was because of  my setup , because when they installed it they tried it and there was no noise ,so i have no clue what it is my WA2 has a stepper and it never poped i installed a stepper in my Littledot MK3 and its silent .I have no idea what could cause that


----------



## joseph69

Anybody have experience with (THESE) tubes?
 I'm looking at them for the BHSE.
 Thanks!


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> i wouldnt think so and  if i remember correctly the guy from PCX told me it was because of  my setup , because when they installed it they tried it and there was no noise ,so i have no clue what it is my WA2 has a stepper and it never poped i installed a stepper in my Littledot MK3 and its silent .I have no idea what could cause that


 

 No Sirs!  It's related to the setup... infinite as they may be.  But, there is a logical (electronic/ electrical) explanation...  maybe try hot-sauce on the connections! lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The truth of the mater is that there is a number of factors from different areas that can cause issues from the power plant to the distribution inside the home etc.
  
 My overall advise is to enjoy what you have and appreciate the motivation to achieve better (vote-for-me-for congress... NOT!)  A good designed amp with a decent power utility should provide (at least) great sonics; without scoping your amp's situation on my bench leaves a lot open for discussion (I'm not volunteering!).
  
 Take care chaps, I'm tired and want to listen to some music!


----------



## ru4music

joseph69 said:


> Anybody have experience with (THESE) tubes?
> I'm looking at them for the BHSE.
> Thanks!


 

 I have not tried them myself, but I would advise opinions from the forum regarding reliability and sonic signature.


----------



## joseph69

ru4music said:


> I have not tried them myself, but I would advise opinions from the forum regarding reliability and sonic signature.


 
 Thanks…this is why I'm asking…they also have a 1-year warranty, and I thought I read some impressions on these tubes here on this forum.


----------



## jhljhl

Hi, just emailed Western Electric - they said 300b production should start again early next year.


----------



## magiccabbage

jhljhl said:


> Hi, just emailed Western Electric - they said 300b production should start again early next year.


 
 ? replicas?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

jhljhl said:


> Hi, just emailed Western Electric - they said 300b production should start again early next year.


 
  
 Wonder if the filament problem from the last reissue got fixed.  Any hint on pricing?  Thanks.


----------



## jhljhl

sko0bydoo said:


> Wonder if the filament issue from the last reissue got fixed.  Any hint on pricing?  Thanks.


 

 Don't know anything else.  You can email them - I got a response quickly.


----------



## Stereolab42

jhljhl said:


> Hi, just emailed Western Electric - they said 300b production should start again early next year.


 
  
 But is there really a point given that PSVane has been making a WE300B 1:1 replica for a while now?


----------



## Contrails

> Hi, just emailed Western Electric - they said 300b production should start again early next year


 
  
 It would be nice if these new produce sound exactly like the NOS.  But I wouldn't be surprised if someone who's stocked a few of the NOS tubes would review the NOS sounding better hoping to keep the prices up.


----------



## magiccabbage

contrails said:


> It would be nice if these new produce sound exactly like the NOS.  But I wouldn't be surprised if someone who's stocked a few of the NOS tubes would review the NOS sounding better hoping to keep the prices up.


 
 you could bet your house on that happening. Of course they would say the the NOS are better regardless of the truth. These WE 300bs are a tube I would love to hear. A friend of mine who uses a Carey 300b had them for a couple of years and never really liked them. Imagine that!! - I was so surprised when he told me. I had no idea he even owned a pair. He now uses KRs and SERPS. And he really likes the JJs and those are cheap ass 300bs! Go figure. Each to their own I suppose. 
  
 If you happened to buy a pair and it turned out that there were just OK would you really go posting about it? I mean they'd be hard to get rid of if you told everyone they sounded crap.


----------



## Badas

Isn't it a funny hobby?
  
 The other night my HP listening was crap. Nothing sounded good. I had the weird clicking thing going on. By time I finished I felt like I wasted my time.
  
 Last night it couldn't have been better. I often read and listen when I have a HP session. I couldn't read last night. The HP rig was sooooooo damn great. I just had to listen. I even tried to find faults. Nothing. It was heaven.
  
 Funny how you can have two different nights. I don't know what it was. Maybe my ears were clear or I was in a better mood (not sure about that one. I was exhausted) or possibly the stars were aligned??? Whatever it was the Woo was magical.


----------



## jhljhl

stereolab42 said:


> But is there really a point given that PSVane has been making a WE300B 1:1 replica for a while now?


 

 I think the we300b replica are said to sound closer to the originals than psvane etc.


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> Hi, just emailed Western Electric - they said 300b production should start again early next year.


 

 Well that would be terrific, what fantastic news for a Friday morning !


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> I think the we300b replica are said to sound closer to the originals than psvane etc.


 

 The Psvane 300B replica is a unreliable tube I have had several fail on me as well on friends with moderate use, it also doesn't sound great. The KR's and SERP's, Taktsuki's etc are a fair bit better. I am quite sure there will no comparison to the genuine WE article.


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> I think the we300b replica are said to sound closer to the originals than psvane etc.


 
  
 I don't have vintage WE300Bs, but I do have the PSvane replicas and TA300Bs and SERPs. The PSvanes are good tubes, and they do have a taste of the mid range magic that the TA300Bs have, but they aren't great up high or down low. SERPs have great extension, but are a little dark. The TA300B does it all - magic mids and great extension up and down.


----------



## wyan

About WE300B NOS, I was told that the older the production date, the better the sound, and that WE300A is far better than WE300B. I guess few have the money to be able to do the A/B comparison. 
  
 The 90's and 00's WE300B seem to get a bad reputation. I wonder what the new WE300B will turn out to be. 
  
 And I agree that Takatsuki's 300B's sound fantastic.


----------



## jhljhl

How do the eml 300b mesh compare to the tak or we 300b's?


----------



## 3083joe

Excellent album. 
Johnny hodges "the eleventh hours"
Ray nance on violin


----------



## jhljhl

kr tubes being made.
  

  
 Tesla tubes.
  

 mullard tubes


----------



## musicman2006

WOW those youtube videos are pretty neat for those that wondered how tubes are assembled. thanks for posting.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I got my 6F8G adapters for the WA6 yesterday. The TS square plates sounded great but there wasn't enough gain for use with the TH900. With most 6SN7s, the WA6 volume knob is 11-12 o'clock. With the TS square plate 6F8Gs, the volume knob was maxed out. After an hour or so, I went back to Sophia 6SN7s. These are great sounding tubes. Running them with a Psvane WE274B replica.
  

  
 My WE422A also arrived, which I'm using with TS 6AS7G and TSRP 6F8G in the WA22. Love it.


----------



## magiccabbage

indiegradofan said:


> I got my 6F8G adapters for the WA6 yesterday. The TS square plates sounded great but there wasn't enough gain for use with the TH900. With most 6SN7s, the WA6 volume knob is 11-12 o'clock. With the TS square plate 6F8Gs, the volume knob was maxed out. After an hour or so, I went back to Sophia 6SN7s. These are great sounding tubes. Running them with a Psvane WE274B replica.
> 
> 
> 
> My WE422A also arrived, which I'm using with TS 6AS7G and TSRP 6F8G in the WA22. Love it.


 
 thats a whopper of a tube combo - wonder what the GEC 6as7gs would sound like in there?


----------



## 3083joe

magiccabbage said:


> thats a whopper of a tube combo - wonder what the GEC 6as7gs would sound like in there?


 

 The GEC 6as7gs sound amazing in the Wa22, best driver, in my opinion
 Paired with WE274a and Mullard ecc3X any of them!


----------



## Shaffer

To update the thread regarding WA6 buzzing issues discussed a short time back, I've been trying another Elise owner's burnin method which killed the non-stop buzz in the signal tubes. Mind you, it's just one pair of tubes, so it could be an outlier. During the course of the upcoming week I'll be using it with other buzzing tubes and update the post.

In essence, one allows the tubes to heat fully and remain in that state for 15-30 minutes, then let the tubes cool down completely, rinse and repeat. It took ~15 cycles to remove the buzz from the pair I cited.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> The GEC 6as7gs sound amazing in the Wa22, best driver, in my opinion
> Paired with WE274a and Mullard ecc3X any of them!


----------



## Khragon

wyan said:


> About WE300B NOS, I was told that the older the production date, the better the sound, and that WE300A is far better than WE300B. I guess few have the money to be able to do the A/B comparison.
> 
> The 90's and 00's WE300B seem to get a bad reputation. I wonder what the new WE300B will turn out to be.
> 
> And I agree that Takatsuki's 300B's sound fantastic.




Hmm.. Where did you get the opinion that the reissue we300b is not good? I have the reissue and it sounded good to me, granted I haven't heard the vintage version.

Here's a comparison between vintage vs reissue:

http://www.antiqueradio.com/300B_01-98.html

Summary quote:


> The reissue 300B by Westrex sounded very close to the vintage WE 300B. Again it was lush sounding. We heard slightly more volume from the reissue 300Bs, but that may be because my old 300Bs are a little tuckered out from many years of use. The mid-range in the reissue tube, which has always been what single-ended triode amps using 300Bs were noted for, was "to die for."
> 
> Whether the reissue 300Bs will be as durable and long lasting as the old ones remains to be seen. I have listened to the reissues for about 150 hours, only a small fraction of the thousands of hours the old 300Bs were built for. Westrex has succeeded marvelously in reproducing the legendary 300B, and future tube audio amplifier lovers will have them to thank.


----------



## Badas

shaffer said:


> To update the thread regarding WA6 buzzing issues discussed a short time back, I've been trying another Elise owner's burnin method which killed the non-stop buzz in the signal tubes. Mind you, it's just one pair of tubes, so it could be an outlier. During the course of the upcoming week I'll be using it with other buzzing tubes and update the post.
> 
> In essence, one allows the tubes to heat fully and remain in that state for 15-30 minutes, then let the tubes cool down completely, rinse and repeat. It took ~15 cycles to remove the buzz from the pair I cited.


 

 Yip. The classic 50 hour burn in time.
  
 Most tubes shouldn't be evaluated until they have 50 hours clocked up on them. With start ups and cool downs.
  
 Some other tubes like 300B's need even longer. 300-500 hours.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Yip. The classic 50 hour burn in time.
> 
> Most tubes shouldn't be evaluated until they have 50 hours clocked up on them. With start ups and cool downs.
> 
> Some other tubes like 300B's need even longer. 300-500 hours.


 

 Agreed, depending own the material - as mesh plates are even more delicate as are Thoriated Tungsten, it is almost a guaranteed failure on those if you touch them while there is any warmth left in them at all. EML, Elrog and Takatsuki recommend no more than 4 hours on and then a complete cool down for at least a couple of hours and then continue that cycle for the first 50 hours. If you do this you will help to get maximum life out of your valuable tubes. I have often seen a blue glow around them in the initial 20-30 hour period. 
  
 Badas is 100% correct you cannot from any conclusion on a tubes character until it has at least 100 hours on it and even then be ready to change your views down the track. It has happened to me many times.


----------



## isquirrel

Received an interesting shipment from EML yesterday - no 300B but plenty of new tubes to play with. 
  
 Mesh and normal plate 45's, 2A3's including the rare Globes.
  
 News from Elrog that the issues are finally sorted and that a replacement pair for testing are on their way. Not only are production issues sorted with zero failures reported out of the new production but improved sound quality and new bases !! Finally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 News from Takatsuki: - new production TA300B's with various modifications, improved sound quality etc, a couple of sets are on their way. 274B is unchanged.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Received an interesting shipment from EML yesterday - no 300B but plenty of new tubes to play with.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice!
 I love your posts, Simon, because any time I need to justify my relatively paltry spend on new tubes, I can look at how far I *could* be going with this hobby and realize I am still sane


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Nice!
> I love your posts, Simon, because any time I need to justify my relatively paltry spend on new tubes, I can look at how far I *could* be going with this hobby and realize I am still sane


 

 Gee thanks Ken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 when I got up this morning and looked at all those I though ****** now I have to burn all those in.... 
  
 I am working with our favourite amp builder on something really special - hope to be able to talk more about it soon


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Beautiful tubes Simon. Fantastic pics.


----------



## ru4music

isquirrel said:


> Agreed, depending own the material - as mesh plates are even more delicate as are Thoriated Tungsten, it is almost a guaranteed failure on those if you touch them while there is any warmth left in them at all. EML, Elrog and Takatsuki recommend no more than 4 hours on and then a complete cool down for at least a couple of hours and then continue that cycle for the first 50 hours. If you do this you will help to get maximum life out of your valuable tubes. I have often seen a blue glow around them in the initial 20-30 hour period.
> 
> Badas is 100% correct you cannot from any conclusion on a tubes character until it has *at least 100 hours on it and even then be ready to change your views down the track.* It has happened to me many times.


 
  
 ... this is the life we have chosen to follow!


----------



## sathyam

Those are beautiful tubes. How do they compare to Taks?


----------



## ru4music

isquirrel said:


> Received an interesting shipment from EML yesterday - no 300B but plenty of new tubes to play with.
> 
> Mesh and normal plate 45's, 2A3's including the rare Globes.
> 
> ...


 
  



*!!!!!!!!!!!!*
  
 Are you evaluating, or are these a purchase?
  
 Those tubes are enough to even make @3083joe jealous with his collection!


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> *!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> Are you evaluating, or are these a purchase?
> 
> *Those tubes are enough to even make @3083joe jealous with his collection! *


 
  
 I reckon. I've studied the photo's 3 times already.
  
 Usually study 3083joe's pictures a lot also. Especially the yummy Mullard drivers.


----------



## isquirrel

I collect tubes, the only way to find out what these different types sound like is to give them a go, the EML's are not very expensive and now have a 5 year warranty. Fortunately my amp can run these different types of tubes, they suit different types of music and headphones.
  
 Most people if they have been in the hobby for a while and for me its been 30 years, have a decent stash of tubes. I would think that on this forum there are collectively an amazing amount and variety of tubes.


----------



## a1uc

I finally got to spend a few days with my WA22 the Jupiter cap upgrade and IEC made a big improvement 
It's worth doing


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> I finally got to spend a few days with my WA22 the Jupiter cap upgrade and *IEC* made a big improvement
> It's worth doing


 
  
 What are you running for a power cord on your WA22?


----------



## Krutsch

a1uc said:


> I finally got to spend a few days with my WA22 the Jupiter cap upgrade and IEC made a big improvement
> It's worth doing


 
  
 Really nice rig... I looked hard at the Sony player you have, before settling on the Bryston. I've played around with one on my last trip to Japan and I am impressed.


----------



## isquirrel

Photos courtesy of Jack of the LCD-4 with the Macassar Ebony wood cup and Woo Audio stand and Silver 234's. Stunning.


----------



## sathyam

isquirrel said:


> Photos courtesy of Jack of the LCD-4 with the Macassar Ebony wood cup and Woo Audio stand and Silver 234's. Stunning.


 
  
 Beautiful!


----------



## a1uc

Wywires power cable , I use them on all my gear


----------



## a1uc

krutsch said:


> Really nice rig... I looked hard at the Sony player you have, before settling on the Bryston. I've played around with one on my last trip to Japan and I am impressed.




Yes the Sony is nice , not as nice as my Totaldac rig but it's equal with the Auralic Aries


----------



## a1uc

Those Audeze 4 look nice , I'm selling my LCD-X and staying with my HD800 the Audeze is to heavy for me


----------



## Sko0byDoo

isquirrel said:


> Mesh and normal plate 45's, 2A3's including the rare Globes.


 
  
  
 Nice score...how did you get EML 45 globes?  Thought they're done producing them.  Saw a few used on Audiogon once in awhile.
  
 Yes, confirm on Elrog 300B replacement (my pair is en route).  Contact Matthias Klepper directly (matthias.klepper@web.de <-- thanks, musicman59).  
  
 Strangely, I'm happily enjoyed a set of Black Treasure 300BZ now.  8/10 compared to the Taks, just a little bit more grainy but very nice, overall.


----------



## jhljhl

sko0bydoo said:


> Nice score...how did you get EML 45 globes?  Thought they're done producing them.  Saw a few used on Audiogon once in awhile.
> 
> Yes, confirm on Elrog 300B replacement (my pair is en route).  Contact Matthias Klepper directly (matthias.klepper@web.de <-- thanks, musicman59).
> 
> Strangely, I'm happily enjoyed a set of Black Treasure 300BZ now.  8/10 compared to the Taks, just a little bit more grainy but very nice, overall.


 

 Where are you using the Black Treasures?


----------



## 2359glenn

sko0bydoo said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> > Mesh and normal plate 45's, 2A3's including the rare Globes.
> ...


 
 You better change the filament supply before you use the new Elrog's it has to be a 5 volt constant voltage
 not a constant current filament supply.
 The problem was not the tubes.


----------



## 3083joe

a1uc said:


> I finally got to spend a few days with my WA22 the Jupiter cap upgrade and IEC made a big improvement
> It's worth doing



Awesome. 
Interested in this but do you have any directions or posts that you followed?
Where to purchase caps?
Thanks.


----------



## abvolt

this is the site these caps can get pricey also someone on this thread also mentioned Woo can or will upgrade not to sure maybe someone else knows, http://jupitercondenser.com/  if your good in electronics give it a go..


----------



## a1uc

I had a friend of mine order the caps and install them since he does this stuff daily , I would have to look I think the caps and labor costed me 375.00  400.00  plus shipping . I know  a couple caps are also soldered from the bottom . 
 
Anyone interested in this upgrade can contact Paul from Many Moons Audio Im sure he would be willing to do the work


----------



## kchew

For those of you who have replaced the capacitors inside your amp, do you replace with the same capacitor value, or do you switch to different values for some capacitors? I'm asking as I know a local DIY shop who can replace capacitors, but he doesn't stock many of the premium brands. So I was thinking of sourcing the capacitors from elsewhere and letting him replace them.


----------



## a1uc

Paul from Many Moons Audio Sells all that stuff , I suggest you also swap the IEC with a Furutech Gold 
Shoot him a email if intrested


----------



## kchew

a1uc said:


> Paul from Many Moons Audio Sells all that stuff , I suggest you also swap the IEC with a Furutech Gold
> Shoot him a email if intrested


 
  
 Oh my WA22 already has Furutech rhodium IEC and fuse installed since day 1. I'd rather have my capacitors replaced locally and save on shipping from Singapore to America and back. Hence I am asking if I can get capacitors that are of the same value as the original capacitors, or if changing some capacitors to different values would be beneficial.


----------



## musicman59

Look what I just received this afternoon!!! 


Will listen to them tonight and report back later.


----------



## thecrow

Hi everyone. Looking for some experienced views in tube rolling for my wa2 to tweak my sound. 

Im using 6922 pq shield Amperex (USA) tubes with gec 6as7gs on my amp (and hd800s). In my initial listens in the last few days with my new (but second hand) hex dac I'm finding the vocals (and maybe mids overall) are a little recessed. But guitars and strings sound great and natural-ish and I'm hearing a great overall tone. 

What do you recommend to bring those vocals a little more forward? It's ok if a little of the bottom end is sacrificed in the process as that's quite plentiful - I definitely wouldn't need more. 

Should I look at driver or power tubes?

I did read on "joes tube lore" that he thinks the holland Amperex pqs (round halo) might have forward vocals relative to my USA tubes. 

Meanwhile I'll keep listening and see how the amp and I evolve but any ideas you have would be appreciated.


----------



## isquirrel

musicman59 said:


> Look what I just received this afternoon!!!
> 
> 
> Will listen to them tonight and report back later.


 
  
 Would you mind letting us know more about the adapters, particularly the C3G's?


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> Would you mind letting us know more about the adapters, particularly the C3G's?


 
 They are the typical Woo adapters, very well made based on silicon with gold pater pins and sockets and a black metal ring with engraving infecting the type of adapter and side. Yes, they are sided and Jack told me they cannot be mixed. If you put the right side adapter in the left side of the amplifier it will get damaged and the same for the left side adapter.
  
 The tubes are Siemens NAKED. Wood audio sells them that way.
  
 Very first impressions is that these tubes are great at the top end and midrange but I think are lacking a little bit on the bass.
 I think there are also Lorenz, Telefunken and Valvo C3Gs. Anybody has any experience with any of these?
 Which ones of these are the more tubey sounding and with better bass?
  
 Quick follow up: OMG! the clarity and level of transparency of these tubes is amazing! Listening to Riding With The King's When My Heart Beats Like A Hammer.


----------



## isquirrel

musicman59 said:


> They are the typical Woo adapters, very well made based on silicon with gold pater pins and sockets and a black metal ring with engraving infecting the type of adapter and side. Yes, they are sided and Jack told me they cannot be mixed. If you put the right side adapter in the left side of the amplifier it will get damaged and the same for the left side adapter.
> 
> The tubes are Siemens NAKED. Wood audio sells them that way.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the Lorenz, Siemens and the Tele's. I find the Lorenz is the "tubey" one out of the batch. I have just sent a load off to Jack. I had suggested the C3G adapters to Jack a while ago and whilst I knew they had been tested and the results were good I am still waiting for a set. Which TBH is frustrating as hell. 
  
 Happy though for you that you have a set and they work well. Nice one.


----------



## 2359glenn

isquirrel said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > They are the typical Woo adapters, very well made based on silicon with gold pater pins and sockets and a black metal ring with engraving infecting the type of adapter and side. Yes, they are sided and Jack told me they cannot be mixed. If you put the right side adapter in the left side of the amplifier it will get damaged and the same for the left side adapter.
> ...


 

 I thought these things would blow your amp up


----------



## isquirrel

2359glenn said:


> I thought these things would blow your amp up


 

 Jack explained to me that his adapters were different and made correctly for Woo amps. His in testing with the 234's do not have the same issues as yours did with gain. I am not going to get drawn into some debate on them because A I don't have them yet to verify for myself and B I don't have the technical knowledge to know whether what he is telling me is 100% correct.
  
 The relevant fact though is that if he supplies the adapters he is warranting them to work in his amps.


----------



## musicman59

2359glenn said:


> I thought these things would blow your amp up


 
 I don't know what they did but I bet they did something in the adapter otherwise why they will be specific to a channel...


----------



## 2359glenn

musicman59 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > I thought these things would blow your amp up
> ...


 

 They have to be the right and left 6SN7 sockets are wired differently.


----------



## isquirrel

In Jack Woo's opinion, he opined that using 3rd party adapters without the internal knowledge of the amps that he has, would lead to problems. Both Fririce0003 and I paid you $300 each for the adapters and for whatever reason they did not work correctly. Now I suppose you will tell us that we are all idiots and we are being suckered again.


----------



## isquirrel

Props to my Pal Tony, for doing the legwork on the C3G's and rescuing us when needed.
  
 Thanks mate !


----------



## 2359glenn

Wow


----------



## u2u2

isquirrel said:


> Jack explained to me that his adapters were different and made correctly for Woo amps. His in testing with the 234's do not have the same issues as yours did with gain. I am not going to get drawn into some debate on them because A I don't have them yet to verify for myself and B I don't have the technical knowledge to know whether what he is telling me is 100% correct.
> 
> The relevant fact though is that if he supplies the adapters he is warranting them to work in his amps.


 

 And they sound fantastic. Got to audition them today at TAVES.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Props to my Pal Tony, for doing the legwork on the C3G's and rescuing us when needed.
> 
> Thanks mate !


 
  
 I hope you get similar joy from these drivers that I do. They are detailed, extended and transparent like nothing else I have heard.
  
 My 2 cents - I would not get too concerned about Lorenz vs Telefunken vs Siemens (Valvo I have not tried, but I have read that the same situation applies). My understanding is that the last 10 or so years of production for these tubes was all done by Siemens and re-branded as needed. Stripping the covers from the tubes backs this up - the innards of the Telefunken and Lorenz tubes that I have stripped are 100% identical to the Siemens. I can't detect any sonic differences either. Therefore, I would suggest getting the cheapest available tubes (typically the Siemens). It is the same thing as the Telefunken and Lorenz to my eyes and ears.
  
 The exception is older tubes. I have a well-used and rather skanky looking pair of Lorenz tubes that I stripped. These are _*slightly *_different to the Siemens. Pic below has Siemens on the right and the old Lorenz on the left. You can see some minor differences in construction. As far as SQ goes I can't tell any difference between them whatsoever.
  
  

  
 I would also avoid the "/S" versions. These are selected as having tested with 10% or more transconductance beyond what the spec calls for. Maybe that makes a difference electronically, but I cannot hear any difference whatsoever between the "/S" version and the standard tubes.
  
 Folks with better ears and/or gear than me might have different conclusions, but that is what my playing with the C3Gs has taught me.


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> I hope you get similar joy from these drivers that I do. They are detailed, extended and transparent like nothing else I have heard.
> 
> My 2 cents - I would not get too concerned about Lorenz vs Telefunken vs Siemens (Valvo I have not tried, but I have read that the same situation applies). My understanding is that the last 10 or so years of production for these tubes was all done by Siemens and re-branded as needed. Stripping the covers from the tubes backs this up - the innards of the Telefunken and Lorenz tubes that I have stripped are 100% identical to the Siemens. I can't detect any sonic differences either. Therefore, I would suggest getting the cheapest available tubes (typically the Siemens). It is the same thing as the Telefunken and Lorenz to my eyes and ears.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks the /s version are being sold for quite a premium.


----------



## 3083joe

musicman59 said:


> Look what I just received this afternoon!!!
> 
> 
> Will listen to them tonight and report back later.



Sweet. 
Hope they will work in the wa22!


----------



## hpz

musicman59 said:


> Look what I just received this afternoon!!!
> 
> .





> .





> Will listen to them tonight and report back later.


 
  
 I have been running the same setup for a little while now and absolutely love the sound.  The c3g tubes have the least bloom of the driver tubes I've tried, which I prefer.
  
 Also where can I get some of those cool discs which dampen the tube?
  
  
 Here is a pic of my amp.


----------



## novaca

Does anyone of you ECC3x instead 6SN7 in WA6 or especially in WA6SE (with Glenn adapters)?
 Or do you think that it is technically possible?
 I think 3083joe wrote that ecc32 yes, but I can not remember for sure,
 so I would like to verify it (I'd like to try some ecc3x in my WA6SE+Glenn 6SN7 adapters) ...
 Thank´s


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > Look what I just received this afternoon!!!
> ...


 
    Speaking of the WA2 WA6 and WA22  with C3G'S  not possible


----------



## MIKELAP

novaca said:


> Does anyone of you ECC3x instead 6SN7 in WA6 or especially in WA6SE (with Glenn adapters)?
> Or do you think that it is technically possible?
> I think 3083joe wrote that ecc32 yes, but I can not remember for sure,
> so I would like to verify it (I'd like to try some ecc3x in my WA6SE+Glenn 6SN7 adapters) ...
> Thank´s


 
 I am using ECC31, 6N7G, 1635, with adapters in WA22 dont know about WA6 or SE


----------



## 3083joe

novaca said:


> Does anyone of you ECC3x instead 6SN7 in WA6 or especially in WA6SE (with Glenn adapters)?
> 
> Or do you think that it is technically possible?
> I think 3083joe wrote that ecc32 yes, but I can not remember for sure,
> ...




Works perfect in wa6 and wa22 but haven't used in se


----------



## Shaffer

shaffer said:


> To update the thread regarding WA6 buzzing issues discussed a short time back, I've been trying another Elise owner's burnin method which killed the non-stop buzz in the signal tubes. Mind you, it's just one pair of tubes, so it could be an outlier. During the course of the upcoming week I'll be using it with other buzzing tubes and update the post.
> 
> In essence, one allows the tubes to heat fully and remain in that state for 15-30 minutes, then let the tubes cool down completely, rinse and repeat. It took ~15 cycles to remove the buzz from the pair I cited.




As promised, to update the post, this method along with a Furutech power cord has eliminated the buzz from every tube I've tried so far.

On a somewhat related note, received 6SN7 adapters today and have been listening since morning. To say the sound is disappointing is an understatement: slow, diffuse, opaque, no weight and slam, very weak lows, virtually non-existent highs, no chest on male vocalists, the impact of a feather. It's a sad state of affairs when a TV anti-oscillation tube kills my best 6SN7s in this circuit, and it only cost $5 a pop. The 6SN7 is the only tube type I've tried in this amp that a GZ34 had no positive effect on. I'm sticking with 6CY7s and a NOS pair of Philips 6FD7 fat bottles. 

A RCA 6DR7 grey plate is the only tube I've found that makes the Brimar 5Z4GY sound half-way decent. In terms of clarity, detail, and dynamics with realistic timbre a #83V rectifier kills it. Hell, a CRC 5V4G actually brings most of the applicable frequencies to the table with power and scale behind them. A third the cost of the Brimar. Yea, the Brimar has a highly dimensional and spacious midrange, but that's it. Nothing else to offer. At least it's not as dreadful sounding as 6SN7s in this amp. I'm not thrilled after spending the money, waiting, only to be met with disappointment. Forgive me for being cynical, something tells me that some of folks recommending these tubes may not have heard them.


----------



## Badas

shaffer said:


> As promised, to update the post, this method along with a Furutech power cord has eliminated the buzz from every tube I've tried so far.
> 
> On a somewhat related note, received 6SN7 adapters today and have been listening since morning. To say the sound is disappointing is an understatement: slow, diffuse, opaque, no weight and slam, very weak lows, virtually non-existent highs, no chest on male vocalists, the impact of a feather. It's a sad state of affairs when a TV anti-oscillation tube kills my best 6SN7s in this circuit, and it only cost $5 a pop. The 6SN7 is the only tube type I've tried in this amp that a GZ34 had no positive effect on. I'm sticking with 6CY7s and a NOS pair of Philips 6FD7 fat bottles.
> 
> A RCA 6DR7 grey plate is the only tube I've found that makes the Brimar 5Z4GY sound half-way decent. In terms of clarity, detail, and dynamics with realistic timbre a #83V rectifier kills it. Hell, a CRC 5V4G actually brings most of the applicable frequencies to the table with power and scale behind them. A third the cost of the Brimar. Yea, the Brimar has a highly dimensional and spacious midrange, but that's it. Nothing else to offer. At least it's not as dreadful sounding as 6SN7s in this amp. I'm not thrilled after spending the money, waiting, only to be met with disappointment. Forgive me for being cynical, something tells me that some of folks recommending these tubes may not have heard them.




Wholey crap. That is harsh. Especially the last remark.



If I haven't heard the tubes then why do I have sooooooooo many of them???

The Brimar 5Z4GY is a wonderful tube. Nothing to offer? Are you kidding? What about the clean deep bass. So holographic. All at a fraction of the price of other top tubes. 

6SN7 is another story. Do you not know how many 6SN7 type tubes there are? Stacks. All are not created equal. What were you using? I've also found the 6F type to be superior to the 6SN7 type.


----------



## Shaffer

badas said:


> The Brimar 5Z4GY is a wonderful tube. Nothing to offer? Are you kidding? What about the clean deep bass. So holographic. All at a fraction of the price of other top tubes.




I know you like this tube and I wasn't trying to offend you or anyone else. Yes, the mids are holographic, as I said. What deep bass? There is none, perhaps a hint that tapers down before the lowest octave. Certainly no power or weight to it. No real dynamics, no articulation, diffuse presentation with little focus. This does not describe a fine tube, but a highly limited one. I bought it due to the hype. My own mistake that I take full responsibility for.



> 6SN7 is another story. Do you not know how many 6SN7 type tubes there are? Stacks. All are not created equal. What were you using? I've also found the 6F type to be superior to the 6SN7 type.




Two of my other amps use 6SN7 drivers and I'm well aware of the constraints at hand. I prefer CBS GTs and Tung-Sol black plates, mostly, though I have a decent selection of other bottles, as well.


----------



## musicman59

hpz said:


> I have been running the same setup for a little while now and absolutely love the sound.  The c3g tubes have the least bloom of the driver tubes I've tried, which I prefer.
> 
> Also where can I get some of those cool discs which dampen the tube?
> 
> ...


----------



## Badas

shaffer said:


> I know you like this tube and I wasn't trying to offend you or anyone else. Yes, the mids are holographic, as I said. What deep bass? There is none, perhaps a hint that tapers down before the lowest octave. Certainly no power or weight to it. No real dynamics, no articulation, diffuse presentation with little focus. This does not describe a fine tube, but a highly limited one. I bought it due to the hype. My own mistake that I take full responsibility for.
> Two of my other amps use 6SN7 drivers and I'm well aware of the constraints at hand. I prefer CBS GTs and Tung-Sol black plates, mostly, though I have a decent selection of other bottles, as well.




We are hearing different things from the Brimar 5Z4GY. When I heard it for the first time. I rejoysed about the bass. Certainly a lot more than the Mullard GZ32 I was using a lot at the time. A highly recommend far more expensive tube. I also liked the Brimars dynamics. So we are hearing different things. That happens a lot tho. The WA22 often gets comments about being bass lean. To my ears I couldn't handle more. It throws out stacks of bass. I just put it down to other things such as DAC's and HP's that makes the difference. 

Tung-Sol black plates. Is that the round plate or flat plate. They are two different beasts. 
I don't know the CBS GTs.


----------



## Shaffer

I don't see a point in continuing this discussion. You like the Brimar, great! Just as you have the right to your own opinion, since you own and use the rectifier, so do I. Good luck to you.


----------



## Krutsch

In other news, on the lower end of the Woo spectrum...
  
 New tubes arrived yesterday: 6N23p Matched REFLECTOR Single-Wire Silver Shield '74 ... let the burn-in begin. These came highly recommended (both tubes and seller) by @ru4music and after reading his tube rolling thread and the glowing recommendation for these babies, I am eager to be "blown away". I love the little <CCCP> stencil on the tubes.


----------



## koiloco

badas said:


> We are hearing different things from the Brimar 5Z4GY. When I heard it for the first time. I rejoysed about the bass. Certainly a lot more than the Mullard GZ32 I was using a lot at the time. A highly recommend far more expensive tube. I also liked the Brimars dynamics. So we are hearing different things. That happens a lot tho. *The WA22 often gets comments about being bass lean.* To my ears I couldn't handle more. It throws out stacks of bass. I just put it down to other things such as DAC's and HP's that makes the difference.
> 
> Tung-Sol black plates. Is that the round plate or flat plate. They are two different beasts.
> I don't know the CBS GTs.


 
 lol, WA22's bass lean?  not in my experience and cheap chain.  My HD800(also rumored to be bass lean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) + WA22 vs. HE6 + speaker amp = neck to neck in the low end, just different in presentation, IMO, due to 1 HP is dynamic, the other is ortho.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> In other news, on the lower end of the Woo spectrum...
> 
> New tubes arrived yesterday: 6N23p Matched REFLECTOR Single-Wire Silver Shield '74 ... let the burn-in begin. These came highly recommended (both tubes and seller) by @ru4music and after reading his tube rolling thread and the glowing recommendation for these babies, I am eager to be "blown away". I love the little <CCCP> stencil on the tubes.


 

  
  
  
 You should be able to form a (pre)opinion after just a few hours burn-in.  I'm curious to what you think with pairing them with the 421a in your WA3.  Recommend using some of your best recordings and also comparing with other recordings that may have sounded congested with your other driver tubes.


----------



## ru4music

Hey @Badas, have you tried the RCA 6as7GA vs the GE?  I have a pair of the RCA that was shipped with my WA2 and I'm finding they sound rather good with my 6N23P reflectors.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Hey @Badas, have you tried the RCA 6as7GA vs the GE?  I have a pair of the RCA that was shipped with my WA2 and I'm finding they sound rather good with my 6N23P reflectors.


 

 Yes I have. Remember I'm using on a different amp. The RCA has a tad less treble than the GE. Ever so slightly rolled but with the plus effect of sounding mid-range richer / fuller. Usually I would be all over that. However with the Audeze HP's it was too much. So I've elected to go for more treble. I have about 5 sets of the RCA labelled up with different brands that I have just put away in storage for reference.
  
 This would be the perfect power tube to tame treble with bright drivers or system. I actually have too many sets of RCA 6C8G drivers which are a tad bright. So one day I will experiment with that combo. It should be nice.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Yes I have. Remember I'm using on a different amp. The RCA has a tad less treble than the GE. Ever so slightly rolled but with the plus effect of sounding mid-range richer / fuller. Usually I would be all over that. However with the Audeze HP's it was too much. So I've elected to go for more treble. I have about 5 sets of the RCA labelled up with different brands that I have just put away in storage for reference.
> 
> This would be the perfect power tube to tame treble with bright drivers or system. I actually have too many sets of RCA 6C8G drivers which are a tad bright. So one day I will experiment with that combo. It should be nice.


 

 OK, thanks!  I find the RCA 6as7GA's  mid-range to be exceptional (with instruments forward and vocals slightly recessed/ laid back) and treble extension adequate.  The upper-lower to mid bass seems a little rolled off and the sub to bottom-lower bass is good.  I was just wondering if the GE version provided a better upper-lower to mid bass presentation.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> OK, thanks!  I find the RCA 6as7GA's  mid-range to be exceptional (with instruments forward and vocals slightly recessed/ laid back) and treble extension adequate.  The upper-lower to mid bass seems a little rolled off and the sub to bottom-lower bass is good.  I was just wondering if the GE version provided a better upper-lower to mid bass presentation.


 

 It's been a little time between using the RCA 6AS7G and I haven't directly compared to the GE6AS7GA (not that we really can with tubes). However if I was going to guess I would say the GE is a little leaner in the mid-range (still very full and definitely in that romantic mid-range tubes) and extends higher in the treble without distortion.
  
 I hope this helps.


----------



## stephanemtl

I am looking for new tubes to upgrade my stock *driver tubes* on my *Woo WA3.*
  
 What pair of *affordable* (less than $150/pair) driver tubes would add some *openness* (and clarity)* *to my *HD650*? I like their tubey signature (warm, lots of ambience, great bass). But I find them a bit congested.
  
 Current power tube: 7236 Sylvania
 Current driver tubes: stock
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## abvolt

I see this board has banned *Shaffer* too bad I enjoyed his insight..


----------



## 3083joe

stephanemtl said:


> I am looking for new tubes to upgrade my stock *driver tubes* on my *Woo WA3.*
> 
> What pair of *affordable* (less than $150/pair) driver tubes would add some *openness* (and clarity)* *to my *HD650*? I like their tubey signature (warm, lots of ambience, great bass). But I find them a bit congested.
> 
> ...



6c8g nu or ts


----------



## Krutsch

stephanemtl said:


> I am looking for new tubes to upgrade my stock *driver tubes* on my *Woo WA3.*
> 
> What pair of *affordable* (less than $150/pair) driver tubes would add some *openness* (and clarity)* *to my *HD650*? I like their tubey signature (warm, lots of ambience, great bass). But I find them a bit congested.
> 
> ...


 

 I responded to your cross-post on the 650 thread, but please bring follow-up back to this thread.


----------



## GrindingThud

I happen to like any of the 6dj8 a frames, the japanese ones are often less than others and sound great. Another potential is tektronix selected 6bz7.



stephanemtl said:


> I am looking for new tubes to upgrade my stock *driver tubes* on my *Woo WA3.*
> 
> What pair of *affordable* (less than $150/pair) driver tubes would add some *openness* (and clarity)* *to my *HD650*? I like their tubey signature (warm, lots of ambience, great bass). But I find them a bit congested.
> 
> ...


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> You should be able to form a (pre)opinion after just a few hours burn-in.  I'm curious to what you think with pairing them with the 421a in your WA3.  Recommend using some of your best recordings and also comparing with other recordings that may have sounded congested with your other driver tubes.


 
  
 Yeah, so after about 10 hours with the GECs I couldn't wait and flipped-in one of the Westy 421a. You were not kidding about the single wire getter '74 Reflektor drivers - best combo I've heard to date in my WA3.
  
 Believe it or not, my HD-700s never sounded just right until I put in this combo. Wow.
  
 I am very eager to swap in the HD-650s with this tube combo and listen to some jazz vocals (Betty Carter, then the Decca recordings from Carmen McRae).
 Man... I am sooooo loving Head-Fi right now.


----------



## 3083joe

Purchased my first turntable today! 
Nothing crazy. Simple entry level clear audio
But excited to give vinyl a try with my setup.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Purchased my first turntable today!
> Nothing crazy. Simple entry level clear audio
> But excited to give vinyl a try with my setup.


 

 Great!  The warmth of vinyl with the correct setup is just what you're looking for, enjoy the original jazz signature!!!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Purchased my first turntable today!
> Nothing crazy. Simple entry level clear audio
> But excited to give vinyl a try with my setup.


 

 I have a love hate relationship with vinyl.
  
 Love that warmth. Hate those pops and crackles.
  
 It will be interesting what you think.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Yeah, so after about 10 hours with the GECs I couldn't wait and flipped-in one of the Westy 421a. You were not kidding about the single wire getter '74 Reflektor drivers - best combo I've heard to date in my WA3.
> 
> Believe it or not, my HD-700s never sounded just right until I put in this combo. Wow.
> 
> ...


 

 Perfect!  I have found the reflector drivers are very articulate and will produce what is recorded.  They really are my "reference-go-to" tube; that is not to say other combos (which I endorse) are not as good.  The better the recording; the better the sound!
  
 My secondary recommendation would be your 6520 power type tubes.  I have not listened to these tubes, but I believe these are more similar to a 6as7 type build and may provide some great sonics!


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> I have a love hate relationship with vinyl.
> 
> Love that warmth. Hate those pops and crackles.
> 
> It will be interesting what you think.


 
 Well said!
 Times a thousand both directions!


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> Perfect!  I have found the reflector drivers are very articulate and will produce what is recorded.  They really are my "reference-go-to" tube; that is not to say other combos (which I endorse) are not as good.  The better the recording; the better the sound!
> 
> *My secondary recommendation would be your 6520 power type tubes. * I have not listened to these tubes, but I believe these are more similar to a 6as7 type build and may provide some great sonics!


 
  
 Funny that you mention these, as I've posted in the past that the Tung-Sol 6520 are a very under appreciated tube. I have a few of these, as well, and can attest that they are a "premium" TS 5998. I've read that they were sold as such, back in the day, and I am baffled as to why they sell for much less on eBay (although I haven't looked, lately).


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Well said!
> Times a thousand both directions!



I agree. Can be frustrating. 
Really depends on the quality of the vinyl and must have record cleaner.


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Funny that you mention these, as I've posted in the past that the Tung-Sol 6520 are a very under appreciated tube. I have a few of these, as well, and can attest that they are a "premium" TS 5998. I've read that they were sold as such, back in the day, and I am baffled as to why they sell for much less on eBay (although I haven't looked, lately).



Really hard to find. To be honest.


----------



## stephanemtl

Thank you, Krutsch. I transferred to the woo thread after reading your comment.

You did mention that your opinion had changed since a previous post where you praised the new Telefunken E88CC-TK gold pin tube.

New suggestions?



krutsch said:


> I responded to your cross-post on the 650 thread, but please bring follow-up back to this thread.


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Really hard to find. To be honest.


 

 I must have been lucky to find them, in the past. Sorry to hear that they are rare.


----------



## GrindingThud

Data sheet for the 6520: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/127/6/6520.pdf
I beleieve they are a special 6AS7, not 5998. The transconductance matches for 6AS7 (7000), not 5998 (14000) http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/5998_TS.PDF

They do sound great though. 



krutsch said:


> Funny that you mention these, as I've posted in the past that the Tung-Sol 6520 are a very under appreciated tube. I have a few of these, as well, and can attest that they are a "premium" TS 5998. I've read that they were sold as such, back in the day, and I am baffled as to why they sell for much less on eBay (although I haven't looked, lately).


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Funny that you mention these, as I've posted in the past that the Tung-Sol 6520 are a very under appreciated tube. I have a few of these, as well, and can attest that they are a "premium" TS 5998. I've read that they were sold as such, back in the day, and I am baffled as to why they sell for much less on eBay (although I haven't looked, lately).


 

 From your past postings, I believe the 6520 type are a premium 6AS7 type based on construction.  I don't believe this a bad thing, but a good thing... time will tell... please try with our Russian drivers!


----------



## Krutsch

grindingthud said:


> Data sheet for the 6520: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/127/6/6520.pdf
> I beleieve they are a special 6AS7, not 5998. The transconductance matches for 6AS7 (7000), not 5998 (14000) http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/5998_TS.PDF
> 
> They do sound great though.


 
  
  


ru4music said:


> From your past postings, I believe the 6520 type are a premium 6AS7 type based on construction.  I don't believe this a bad thing, but a good thing... time will tell... please try with our Russian drivers!


 

 Yes, apologies... I reviewed my previous notes and I misspoke on my recent post. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## jhljhl

Hi all, is this even possible on a woo- a 12ax7 to 6sn7 adapter???
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/12AX7-U7-T7-ECC81-82-83-to-6SN7-L7-ECC32-33-Tube-socket-adapter-Suzier-D2-2PCS-/281840947427?hash=item419f0790e3:g:aDEAAOSwLVZV4~IF


----------



## Stereolab42

3083joe said:


> Purchased my first turntable today!
> Nothing crazy. Simple entry level clear audio
> But excited to give vinyl a try with my setup.


 
  
 Just got my first one also a few days ago, one of those ubiquitous A-T LP120s, with a Shure M97xE cartridge and an ART USB Phono Plus ADC. Mid-fi setup, but the intended use is not for everyday listening but strictly for ripping releases to digital that I can acquire more easily or sometimes only on vinyl. After some laughable boneheaded moves (putting on the counterweight backwards, plus smashing the needle on the included cartridge) I figured it all out and have some great-sounding rips. The key is acquiring some good software with which to remove the more annoying clicks and crackles.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Just got my first one also a few days ago, one of those ubiquitous A-T LP120s, with a Shure M97xE cartridge and an ART USB Phono Plus ADC. Mid-fi setup, but the intended use is not for everyday listening but strictly for ripping releases to digital that I can acquire more easily or sometimes only on vinyl. After some laughable boneheaded moves (putting on the counterweight backwards, plus smashing the needle on the included cartridge) I figured it all out and have some great-sounding rips. The key is acquiring some good software with which to remove the more annoying clicks and crackles.




Exactly what I do. 

I have pro-ject TT and a Rega USB. I use Audacity to rip files and actually use those for HP listening. The result is nice. Not exceptional but nice. Interestingly I prefer my SS amp over tubes for this type of HP listening. I have no logical reason why.

Then for speakers I use the Vinyl itself. I really love The Clash - London Calling and any Led Zeppelin album (I have them all). The experience of that through two 300 watt bi-amped speakers and two 1000 watt subs is amazing. I far prefer Vinyl for actual speaker listening.


----------



## stephanemtl

3083joe said:


> 6c8g nu or ts


 

 3083Joe, I was under the impression that 6C8G tubes could not be used as driver tubes on the WA3.


----------



## 3083joe

You migh





stephanemtl said:


> 3083Joe, I was under the impression that 6C8G tubes could not be used as driver tubes on the WA3.



You might be right but don't understand how you can use ecc3xs and not 6c8g.


----------



## novaca

3083joe said:


> You might be right but don't understand how you can use ecc3xs and not 6c8g.


 
 It was me who asked about the ECC3x (with WA6SE). I think stephanemtl wrote about E88CC...


----------



## 3083joe

I feel they would work with wa6se, but just email woo they will let you know for sure. 
I also thought the 6xf8 will work on wa3 but again email woo
They normally respond within 24hrs


----------



## 3083joe

stereolab42 said:


> Just got my first one also a few days ago, one of those ubiquitous A-T LP120s, with a Shure M97xE cartridge and an ART USB Phono Plus ADC. Mid-fi setup, but the intended use is not for everyday listening but strictly for ripping releases to digital that I can acquire more easily or sometimes only on vinyl. After some laughable boneheaded moves (putting on the counterweight backwards, plus smashing the needle on the included cartridge) I figured it all out and have some great-sounding rips. The key is acquiring some good software with which to remove the more annoying clicks and crackles.



What software do you use?


----------



## MIKELAP

Anybody try a 5Z3 or type 83 rectifiers


----------



## 3083joe

I've tried several 5z3
Brimar 
NU
Both very good
Oh the we274a is a 5z3 also 
. 
Rca 
Sylvania
Ts
Not too bad not too good 
Haven't tried 83


----------



## u2u2

I have used several Sylvania JAN 5Z3 from 1981 and several RCA 5Z3 from 1965 and 1966 in my WA6. They are entertaining and perform in line with their very modest cost, certainly far better than the supplied Shuguang.


----------



## abvolt

I'm currently listening to a early 1940's nu 5z3 it's really nice punchy deep bass  better then the brimar 5z4gy It replaced..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> I'm currently listening to a early 1940's nu 5z3 it's really nice punchy deep bass  better then the brimar 5z4gy It replaced..



Yep NU was very nice and cheap!


----------



## uncopy87

II just stuck with the wa7 cause I personally really care about the looks of the amp just as much as its sound. if it is going to be big and sit on my desk it might as well be pretty.


----------



## MIKELAP

. Are type 83 ,5Z3 and type 80 similar rectifiers and can they all be used with a 5Z3to 5U4 adapter in a WA6 and a WA22. Thanks.


----------



## musicman59

Well, I have been listening to the c3g tubes in my WA5-LE for a few days (A few hours in the evenings). The power tubes are AVVT AV32B (300B-XLS) and the rectifiers at Chatham 52KU. The headphones used are HE1000.
 The soundstage, midrange and treble presentation is totally amazing but all of that at the cost of bass. I felt that I lost a significant amount of bass to the point of bothering me. Last might compared the sound between the WA5-LE and the MHA100 and the difference in bass presentation was huge. The MHA100 is very transparent and not a bass monster by any means but in comparison the sound of the WA5-LE was very anemic in the bass area.
  
 For those with experience with the c3g tubes, is this reduction of bass in the presentation normal? Is it because they are new tubes and need to settle to come to life?
 If you are experiencing good bass out of them then what power and rectifier tubes are you using?
  
 Thanks for your comments.


----------



## u2u2

uncopy87 said:


> II just stuck with the wa7 cause I personally really care about the looks of the amp just as much as its sound. if it is going to be big and sit on my desk it might as well be pretty.


 

 But if the lights are turned down...


----------



## bpcans

u2u2 said:


> But if the lights are turned down...


Great pic!


----------



## MIKELAP

mikelap said:


> . Are type 83 ,5Z3 and type 80 similar rectifiers and can they all be used with a 5Z3to 5U4 adapter in a WA6 and a WA22. Thanks.


 
 Got an answer from Woo with the 5Z3 to 5U4 adapter  you can use a 5Z3 a TYPE 80 and type 83 rectifier with a WA6 and WA22 HP amp


----------



## abvolt

here you go http://www.ebay.com/itm/201212386652?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 that's what I've been using cheap & works great..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> here you go http://www.ebay.com/itm/201212386652?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> that's what I've been using cheap & works great..



Yep some one I'm using on the we274A


----------



## joseph69

.


----------



## kazsud

So I just bought up w/ 400+ post and I'm surprised to see no new impressions of the current Wa5+LE.....


----------



## abvolt

For me the 5 series is over priced now..


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> For me the 5 series is over priced now..


 

 Given the present market comparables  - it is priced a little higher than I think it should have been.  Still, the wa5le is an excellent amp.


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> Got an answer from Woo with the 5Z3 to 5U4 adapter  you can use a 5Z3 a TYPE 80 and type 83 rectifier with a WA6 and WA22 HP amp



Some of the 83s look like the we274


----------



## novaca

Quote:


novaca said:


> It was me who asked about the ECC3x (with WA6SE).



 Quote:


3083joe said:


> I feel they would work with wa6se, but just email woo they will let you know for sure.


 
  
 Woo told me just see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html
 I also tried Glenn, but did not answer...
 Maybe I'll take my chances. But I still have fun with 6SN7 rolling.
 Then maybe wa22 - if I will be fortunate. And it will be solved.


----------



## 3083joe

Give it a try. I'm sure it will work. Just keep your power nob handy if you need to shut it off real quick.


----------



## 2359glenn

novaca said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> novaca said:
> ...


 

 These tubes will work nothing bad will happen


----------



## 3083joe

2359glenn said:


> These tubes will work nothing bad will happen



Thanks Glenn. 
I was sure they would.


----------



## 3083joe




----------



## 3083joe

Must have album!!!
One of the best I've heard


----------



## Thenewguy007

Would any owners say the WA2 or Woo amps in general produce too much of a syruppy & gooey sound?
 A lot of people complained that they lose microdetails when using them.
  
 Would anyone agree with that statement?


----------



## 3083joe

thenewguy007 said:


> Would any owners say the WA2 or Woo amps in general produce too much of a syruppy & gooey sound?
> 
> A lot of people complained that they lose microdetails when using them.
> 
> Would anyone agree with that statement?



I was just listening to my wa22 think about how detailed it was. Live album by hodges and wild bill and it was like I was in the auditorium with them 
So.... I would have to say no. 
But I also think it depends on the tubes you are using and your source!


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> Would any owners say the WA2 or Woo amps in general produce too much of a syruppy & gooey sound?
> 
> A lot of people complained that they lose microdetails when using them.
> 
> Would anyone agree with that statement?


Not me. 

I've come from a soloist amp (using hd800s). Good detail, tight bass, forward rich mids, airy highs, a little bright. And for sale in the classifieds, just quietly. 

First immediate impressions of the wa2 stock tubes was it was smoother. Not guey but smooth. People describe it here as silky smooth. And better detail. Definitely. 

Then I put in upgraded tubes and the detail was even better. Wowee!!

I'd hate to think what the wa5 sounds like. I can't even imagine how they would sound as the wa2 has really impressed me. I certainly don't want to hear one. I can't afford one at all!!!!

That's my .02c


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Must have album!!!
> One of the best I've heard


 

 Great artist!


----------



## ru4music

thenewguy007 said:


> Would any owners say the WA2 or Woo amps in general produce too much of a syruppy & gooey sound?
> A lot of people complained that they lose microdetails when using them.
> 
> Would anyone agree with that statement?


 

 Nope!  I've had my WA2 for three years this month and before that a WA3 since 2004.  My Woo's have supported every upgrade I have thrown at them through extended detail and SQ.


----------



## musicman59

Follow up on the c3g tubes in my WA5-LE...
 I changed the power tubes for my EML 300B Mesh and did some rolling of different rectifiers settling on the Brimar 5R4GY. With his combination I got a more balanced sound with much better bass that originally was missing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> Follow up on the c3g tubes in my WA5-LE...
> I changed the power tubes for my EML 300B Mesh and did some rolling of different rectifiers settling on the Brimar 5R4GY. With his combination I got a more balanced sound with much better bass that originally was missing
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What rectifier were using before?  How much better is the bass now?


----------



## musicman59

jhljhl said:


> What rectifier were using before?  How much better is the bass now?


 
 I was using a Chatham 52ku which with the AVVT 300B and TS 6F8G makes beautiful sound. The bass got better when I switched to the EML 300B Mesh an dthen took one more stop to deeper and punchier bass with the Brimar rectifiers.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We love seeing pics of your systems. Please send them to info@wooaudio.com and we may share them on social media. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To say that we're impressed by this customer's system would be an understatement.


----------



## Badas

^
  




  
 That looks like a shop display. So damn cool.
  
 I changed the posters behind my main rack last night. To something more kickass.


----------



## joseph69

Where di you get the shelf under your amp?
 Thanks.


----------



## Herueyes

Just picked up a WA22 to go along with my WA-6SE & WA3... Don't ask me why but was zipping along the net and came across this......
  
  
_*WTH???*_
  
  
 Is it an old site? or what's coming?? says (2014) sure looks better than the present methinks... Still was fun to click around...
  
 Enjoy...
  
 - Peace...


----------



## jhljhl

I wanted to compare the WA22 and WA5LE v.1(upgraded). 
  
 Overall, I consider the WA22 like walking in the fog and rain misty but with occasional lightening and heavy rain.   I mean a wide sound stage.  A warm midrange which can be slightly veiled but constant from light to dark and also there is good extension.  And can with right tubes exhibit a rich bass though not as much in quantity.
  
 The WA5LE is like an ocean front.  At the beach with waves large and small crashing ripples and extending all the way to the thinnest point and flowing or receding gently smoothly back.  A submerging experience whether lazing on the sand or deep in the water.  I mean, there's rich depth extending along the x,y,z axis- 3d, holographic - also in bass, sub-b, midrange and treble.  And this with just stock Shuguang 300b tubes (waiting on my EML300B-XLS) but with tsrp 6f8g and 596 tubes. 
  
 I don't know if anyone can follow what I'm saying but basically the WA22 I can relax and also listen attentively to but with the WA5LE it has a musicality which demands attention.  I could have been perfectly content with the WA22 but given the opportunity to pickup a WA5LE instead of waiting on a WA5- I ultimately decided not to unify a system to handle both speakers and hp's.
  
 Looking back I think the Woo product line was planned insightfully with perfect coherence.  And if I had room and audio budget I would keep the others around like both the WA2 and WA22.
  


 Glenn and Woo adapter.  Ebony and Ivory adapting together in harmony.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Where di you get the shelf under your amp?
> Thanks.




It is a stand that was a limited release stand for the Oppo HA-1. 

I don't use it for the Oppo as I like it for the Woo more.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> It is a stand that was a limited release stand for the Oppo HA-1.
> I don't use it for the Oppo as I like it for the Woo more.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## Aussie Lou

badas said:


> ^
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sure looks kickass!
  
 I see that your tubes grow under trees.


----------



## whirlwind

> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Badas, could I please have a starter branch from your tube tree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Great looking set-up.....love the Clash poster!


----------



## Badas

aussie lou said:


> Sure looks kickass!
> 
> *I see that your tubes grow under trees.*


 
  
  


whirlwind said:


> *Badas, could I please have a starter branch from your tube tree*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  





 Wouldn't it be great if that was the case.
 Unfortunately they are the reminder of tubes I have tried and don't like. I don't have the heart to throw them so under the tree they go.
  
 Here are my A class tubes.
  

  
 Power tubes (top), Rectifiers (right) and drivers (bottom).


----------



## Krutsch

^^ I feel inadequate ...


----------



## Badas

^

Some awesome tubes there.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> ^^ I feel inadequate ...


 
  
 How have those `74 6N23P's been working out for you?


----------



## 3083joe

Mullard ecc33 and backup GEC 6as7gs just arrived.


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> Mullard ecc33 and backup GEC 6as7gs just arrived.


 
  
 hey joe of the eccxx's you've listened to which sounds best to you. been thinking of trying a pair thanks..


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> How have those `74 6N23P's been working out for you?


 

 So far, I am loving 'em. Still burning them in, but I switched back to the WE421a from the GEC 6AS7g and the Westy/Reflektor combo is magic. These could be end-game for my WA3.
  
 When I've given it some time, I will switch back to my old favorites ('60s Siemens E288CC or Tele E188CC) and see which I like more. But they are all great tubes.
  
 Thanks again for your awesome 6DJ8 tube rolling thread, as well as the recommendation for the Russian tubes and the seller... working out great.


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> hey joe of the eccxx's you've listened to which sounds best to you. been thinking of trying a pair thanks..



Well so far my favorites are the 35s but they are all very very close. Haven't listened to the 33s yet but as for money the 31s are as good as it gets. Running 200ish a set then 20ish for adapters it a no brainier for real but I like testing/auditioning them all.


----------



## abvolt

thanks


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> So far, I am loving 'em. Still burning them in, but I switched back to the WE421a from the GEC 6AS7g and the Westy/Reflektor combo is magic. These could be end-game for my WA3.
> 
> When I've given it some time, I will switch back to my old favorites ('60s Siemens E288CC or Tele E188CC) and see which I like more. But they are all great tubes.
> 
> Thanks again for your awesome 6DJ8 tube rolling thread, as well as the recommendation for the Russian tubes and the seller... working out great.


 

 NP!  I'm really enjoying the 5998/ Reflektor/ Brimar EZ80 combo in my WA2.  It's by far the best pairing for speed and resolution from my tube base.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

aussie lou said:


> Sure looks kickass!
> 
> I see that your tubes grow under trees.


 
  
 Rice rack...


----------



## abvolt

Does that mean chinese made cuz i'm thinking taiwanese


----------



## Badas

hifiguy528 said:


> Rice rack...


 
  
  


abvolt said:


> Does that mean chinese made cuz i'm thinking taiwanese


 
  
 Yeah Rice rack amused me.


----------



## abvolt

In good fun, I think you've got some really great gear..


----------



## Herueyes

The more rice the better....


Peace...


----------



## jhljhl

Anyone also subbing 6922 types for 6sn7s?  I'm using mullard e188cc in the wa5le- it has really nice mids. I'm no tube expert but I thought the diminished plate size might effect the sound because the amp calls for 6sn7s.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

The countdown begins.... www.WooAudio.com


----------



## sathyam

WA-8?


----------



## Badas

sathyam said:


> WA-8?


 

 Probably black Friday deals. All silver Woo's are 50% off. All Black Woo's are free.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Probably black Friday deals. All silver Woo's are 50% off. All Black Woo's are free.


 

 ...and they pay *you* to accept delivery of stock tubes


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> ...and they pay *you* to accept delivery of stock tubes


 

 haha,


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Probably black Friday deals. All silver Woo's are 50% off. All Black Woo's are free.


Close. 10% off.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We're live! Save BIG and get it before the holiday rush.
  
 www.wooaudio.com


----------



## abvolt

nice savings


----------



## effles

Hey guys, I'm pretty sure my Tung Sol 5998 is dying and I need to source a replacement. Unfortunately, the 5998 is pretty hard to get here in the UK and I was wondering if there were any comparable tubes that would be easier to source, doesn't necessarily have to sound as good as the 5998, but something non-stock would be great.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## jhljhl

effles said:


> Hey guys, I'm pretty sure my Tung Sol 5998 is dying and I need to source a replacement. Unfortunately, the 5998 is pretty hard to get here in the UK and I was wondering if there were any comparable tubes that would be easier to source, doesn't necessarily have to sound as good as the 5998, but something non-stock would be great.
> 
> Cheers.


 

 RCA 6sa7.  Svetlana 6sa7 are cheap but good too.


----------



## effles

jhljhl said:


> RCA 6sa7.  Svetlana 6sa7 are cheap but good too.


 
 Cheers for the recommendation! Pretty interesting looking tube, quite far away from the Tung Sol., I'll see if I can get hold of a NOS in the UK.
  
 Edit: After some research, the 7236 tubes seem to be a pretty good replacement for 5998s, anyone have any experience with these? Any thoughts on this particular tube?


----------



## Badas

effles said:


> Cheers for the recommendation! Pretty interesting looking tube, quite far away from the Tung Sol., I'll see if I can get hold of a NOS in the UK.
> 
> Edit: After some research, the 7236 tubes seem to be a pretty good replacement for 5998s, anyone have any experience with these? Any thoughts on this particular tube?


 

 I didn't particularly like the Tung-Sol 7236. To neutral for my taste. It has the best speed tho.
  
 Bendix 6080 Graphite plates are not bad.
  
 Have you thought about the Chatham / Tung-Sol 6AS7G (watch out some tung-sols are rebadged RCA's (look for the no flap on the bottom)) or 6520. They are suppose to have 5998 similarities. Just a little leaner. I have 3 sets and they are very nice, lush and holographic.
  
 I prefer a darker tube and use the GE 6AS7GA. Mullard 6080 needs a mention also. Nicest sounding dark tube I have tried.


----------



## effles

Thank you very much, Badas. I'll have a look into those recommendations, awesome.
  
 Edit: How's this looking? http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/6520-chatham-by-tungsol-1950s-used-good-premium-6as7g


----------



## Krutsch

effles said:


> Thank you very much, Badas. I'll have a look into those recommendations, awesome.
> 
> Edit: How's this looking? http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/6520-chatham-by-tungsol-1950s-used-good-premium-6as7g


 

 Hmm... WA3 + HD-650... that's me. See if you can find a Tung-Sol 6520. If not, the Tung-Sol 6AS7g are next in line.
  
 The TS 7236 is a nice tube, IMO, but lacks the tonal qualities of the others mentioned (but, it's "fast" and plays well with some genres of music, like speed metal and hard bop jazz).
  
 Oh, I just re-read that link ... sorry, that's a killer tube, IMO, other than lunatic-fringe tubes, like the GEC 6AS7g brown base or the Western Electric 421a bottom D-getter tubes.


----------



## thecrow

effles said:


> Hey guys, I'm pretty sure my Tung Sol 5998 is dying and I need to source a replacement. Unfortunately, the 5998 is pretty hard to get here in the UK and I was wondering if there were any comparable tubes that would be easier to source, doesn't necessarily have to sound as good as the 5998, but something non-stock would be great.
> 
> Cheers.


Looking for info re what happens when tubes go?
I recently bought two tung sol 5998 tubes for my wa2. They were not bought as a match and they were at a good price. I can return them but wondering what more experienced listeners think. 

One tube shines noticeably dimmer than the other. There are numbers written in the tubes, from a previous owner. Brighter tube has 16500/16200, the other 12800/12600. I'm guessing this would be reading from say a heathkit trip 1a tube tester. Anyone know what level the 12800/12600 is at?

There was a couple of pings on one tube when I first plugged it in. I believe that's not a major drama and is not unusual if it doesn't continue. 

On the good side, and just during a brief listen, I did not detect one side louder than the other. 

What would you recommend I do - keep or return them?
Particularly with one being dimmer than the other and the difference in the numbers on the tubes. As mentioned initially they sound fine together, for now

Thanks in advance

EDIT: I've decided to return the tubes tonight


----------



## effles

krutsch said:


> Hmm... WA3 + HD-650... that's me. See if you can find a Tung-Sol 6520. If not, the Tung-Sol 6AS7g are next in line.
> 
> The TS 7236 is a nice tube, IMO, but lacks the tonal qualities of the others mentioned (but, it's "fast" and plays well with some genres of music, like speed metal and hard bop jazz).
> 
> Oh, I just re-read that link ... sorry, that's a killer tube, IMO, other than lunatic-fringe tubes, like the GEC 6AS7g brown base or the Western Electric 421a bottom D-getter tubes.


 
 Thanks again, Krutsch, huge help as always. I've ordered up the TS 6520.
  
  


thecrow said:


> -snip-


 
 Uh, I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to the actual workings of tubes, I just like how they sound. I'm sure someone that knows what they're talking about will weigh in with some answers for you, sorry I couldn't help.


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Looking for info re what happens when tubes go?
> I recently bought two tung sol 5998 tubes for my wa2. They were not bought as a match and they were at a good price. I can return them but wondering what more experienced listeners think.
> 
> One tube shines noticeably dimmer than the other. There are numbers written in the tubes, from a previous owner. Brighter tube has 16500/16200, the other 12800/12600. I'm guessing this would be reading from say a heathkit trip 1a tube tester. Anyone know what level the 12800/12600 is at?
> ...


 

 Return them. They are not matched. Way out of balance. The fact you can't hear it out of balance is because the Woo has a auto bias circuit. However they should still be close. Not that far out of range. Woo doesn't like it that different also.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Return them. They are not matched. Way out of balance. The fact you can't hear it out of balance is because the Woo has a auto bias circuit. However they should still be close. Not that far out of range. Woo doesn't like it that different also.


Thanks for confirming my thoughts.


----------



## HedgeHog

Pre-emptive sorry if this is a ruh-roh topic or has been covered.
  
 For those using balanced inputs on the WA22, what cable are you using?  I was contemplating the Signal Silver Revolution, Audioquest Mackenzie, or Audioquest Yukon.
  
 Thx.
  
 -H


----------



## maheeinfy

Noob at tube amp right here. Was thinking of getting a OTL amp for my Beyer 600ohm headphones. 
With 10% off sale going on, I am close to purchase of WA3. 
Any suggestions from veteran Woo fans?


----------



## thecrow

maheeinfy said:


> Noob at tube amp right here. Was thinking of getting a OTL amp for my Beyer 600ohm headphones.
> With 10% off sale going on, I am close to purchase of WA3.
> Any suggestions from veteran Woo fans?


For my hd800s I was strongly guided to the wa2 as best bang for buck amp for high impedance headphones. (before going up to the more expensive wa22 and wa5). 

Here's a small chart which may or may not affect your decision. 
http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## HiFiGuy528

maheeinfy said:


> Noob at tube amp right here. Was thinking of getting a OTL amp for my Beyer 600ohm headphones.
> With 10% off sale going on, I am close to purchase of WA3.
> Any suggestions from veteran Woo fans?


 
  
 If you can swing it, WA2 is a better pairing.
  
 http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa2.html
  


hedgehog said:


> Pre-emptive sorry if this is a ruh-roh topic or has been covered.
> 
> For those using balanced inputs on the WA22, what cable are you using?  I was contemplating the Signal Silver Revolution, Audioquest Mackenzie, or Audioquest Yukon.
> 
> ...


 
  
 We use and recommends Nordost Heimdall2. The cost is $799 with FREE shipping. Email us if you're interested.
  
 http://www.nordost.com/norse2/heimdall2/heimdall2-headphone-cable.php


----------



## HedgeHog

Hi Mike,
  
  
 Per your recommendation, I ordered the WA22 from my dealer.  Can't wait.
  
 For the cable, I guess I wasn't clear.  It's not the headphone cable I am looking for but the actual DAC->WA22 balanced cable recommendation.  I'm not planning on spending Nordost money on this cable though; hence, my list of those aforementioned cables (I think they go to $350 per M but typically less).
  
  
 Thx again.
  
 -Hedwig
  
 Quote:


hifiguy528 said:


> We use and recommends Nordost Heimdall2. The cost is $799 with FREE shipping. Email us if you're interested.
> 
> http://www.nordost.com/norse2/heimdall2/heimdall2-headphone-cable.php


----------



## novaca

novaca said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> novaca said:
> ...


 


2359glenn said:


> These tubes will work nothing bad will happen


 
  
 Thanks to everyone, I can finally confirm ecc35 works well with WA6-SE and adapters.
  

  
  
 Yet the question:
 tubes were sold as a matched pair. After delivery the labels on them:
 1) 1.6 / 1.8     2.0 / 2.0
 2) 2.4 / 2.3     2.6 / 2.3
 Can be this considered as matched?
 Anyway I feel that one channel is louder...
 Seller was Landrex with whom I have otherwise a very good experience.


----------



## ru4music

novaca said:


> Thanks to everyone, I can finally confirm ecc35 works well with WA6-SE and adapters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not sure what tester/ measurements those equate to, however, doing simple math and averaging each of the tubes values (tube 1 for the left channel and tube two for the right channel etc.) then calculating percent error between the two I get:
  
 tube 1 (1.85 avg.) and tube 2 (2.40 avg.) = *~26% difference between the tubes *
  
 No, I would say the gain of the tubes are *NOT* matched based on the above calculation; roll the tubes and see if your perception of loudness follows the tubes.  I prefer less than 5% and maybe up to 10% (in some situations), but this is subjective based on the user's preference.


----------



## Krutsch

2015 Christmas Holiday Gift Exchange ... c'mon, fellow tube-fi'ers, join the fun. It only costs you a CD + shipping and you get a CD back, probably something good that you wouldn't have picked up on your own.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/786823/2015-head-fi-holiday-gift-exchange


----------



## novaca

ru4music said:


> I'm not sure what tester/ measurements those equate to, however, doing simple math and averaging each of the tubes values (tube 1 for the left channel and tube two for the right channel etc.) then calculating percent error between the two I get:
> 
> tube 1 (1.85 avg.) and tube 2 (2.40 avg.) = *~26% difference between the tubes *
> 
> No, I would say the gain of the tubes are *NOT* matched based on the above calculation; roll the tubes and see if your perception of loudness follows the tubes.  I prefer less than 5% and maybe up to 10% (in some situations), but this is subjective based on the user's preference.


 
 Also, I do not know what the tester, but by values I suppose AVO.
 If so, the new should have: Ia = 2.3 mA, Gm = 2 mA/V
 And yes, decrease the volume followed by weaker tube.
 Seller agrees with returning. But I hesitate if I keep them and try to get single one that will be paired with one of them (yet use balance - software).
 Have anyone an overview of how to move prices Mullard ecc35 / cv569 short brown base?
 If it's convenient or return them and waiting for another pair.
 I bought this pair for 150 GBP, I saw another pair to sell for 499 USD  (I do not know if it's a standard price or overstated)
  
 Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

I am enjoying the Woo Audio 4 this lazy Friday.


----------



## abvolt

clayton sf said:


> I am enjoying the Woo Audio 4 this lazy Friday.


 
  
  
  
  Same here lazy day for me, I really like your amp never seen one before now, when did woo first introduce that amp.Very cool looking..


----------



## GrindingThud

Nice! Always liked that amp. 


clayton sf said:


> I am enjoying the Woo Audio 4 this lazy Friday.


----------



## Clayton SF

Judging from the serial number, I would guess in 2004.


abvolt said:


> Same here lazy day for me, I really like your amp never seen one before now, when did woo first introduce that amp.Very cool looking..


 
  
 Judging from the serial number, I would guess 2004.
 But then again from this review (which is the amp that I own) it is a few years later.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/259133/woo-audio-4-a-brief-re-review-upgraded


----------



## abvolt

Here's a few new mullards I picked up last week, now running an all mullard combo and I gota say it's offering  more bass body and punch and more warmth while maintaining good speed,  it has a liquid silky smooth grain-free presentation. This combo is excellent for the jazz and vocals I enjoy, very natural timbre and tube warmth, and again the bass performance has never been better my wa22 sounds absolutely amazing with this combo..


----------



## 3083joe

clayton sf said:


> I am enjoying the Woo Audio 4 this lazy Friday.



Sweet


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> 2015 Christmas Holiday Gift Exchange ... c'mon, fellow tube-fi'ers, join the fun. It only costs you a CD + shipping and you get a CD back, probably something good that you wouldn't have picked up on your own.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/786823/2015-head-fi-holiday-gift-exchange



Added.


----------



## reeltime

Wow-- a first for everything.  I was listening to my WA5LE tonight-- trying out my new Chord Hugo when BAM-- The amp went dark.  Blew the fuse.


----------



## kchew

V-Caps in da house. It's going to be a long 240-300 hours of burn in.


----------



## 3083joe

kchew said:


> V-Caps in da house. It's going to be a long 240-300 hours of burn in.


 

 Need those in mine wa22


----------



## cloudbp

Christmas came early for me! got a WA22 with LCD X head phone. totally amazing
 thanks to all the great people at the forum, reco all the great tubes!
  
 due to some reasons i cant post any pictures of it, i will post some as soon as possible!


----------



## kchew

cloudbp said:


> Christmas came early for me! got a WA22 with LCD X head phone. totally amazing
> thanks to all the great people at the forum, reco all the great tubes!


 
  
 Nice! I don't have the LCD-X, but when I borrowed the LCD-2r2 for my WA22, I liked the following tube combinations:
 Mullard GZ34 metal base, Brimar CV1988 and Tung Sol 7236 or,
 United Electronics 596, Tung Sol 6SN7GT black glass round plate and GEC 6AS7
  
  


3083joe said:


> Need those in mine wa22


 
  
 I really recommend them. I've only put in two hours so far, and while they still sound slightly veiled, the soundstaging is clearly improved. And despite using "cheap" tubes - Brimar 5Z4G, ITT/Hitachi 6SN7GTB and Thomsom-CSF 6080 - tone is just right and vocals sound so emotive. I can really see potential in these caps, can't wait for the full burn in.


----------



## cloudbp

kchew said:


> Nice! I don't have the LCD-X, but when I borrowed the LCD-2r2 for my WA22, I liked the following tube combinations:
> Mullard GZ34 metal base, Brimar CV1988 and Tung Sol 7236 or,
> United Electronics 596, Tung Sol 6SN7GT black glass round plate and GEC 6AS7
> 
> ...


 
 im still hunting for the tubes you mention there, its hard to get tubes in Singapore, specially the GZ34 metal base, 
 currently running GE6080, NU 6F8G and brimars 5Z4GY


----------



## kchew

Normal black-based Mullard GZ34 should suffice. Brimar 5Z4GY is a good start. Few shops here sell 6080 variants so I had to turn to evil-bay.


----------



## cloudbp

kchew said:


> V-Caps in da house. It's going to be a long 240-300 hours of burn in.


 
 where you got those caps!! im looking for them too


----------



## fhuang

reeltime said:


> Wow-- a first for everything.  I was listening to my WA5LE tonight-- trying out my new Chord Hugo when BAM-- The amp went dark.  Blew the fuse.





Wow, that's not good. Have you tried again with that combo?


----------



## reeltime

fhuang said:


> Wow, that's not good. Have you tried again with that combo?


 
  
 I have to find a fuse first.  I was running the amp for a longer time period than I would during a normal listening session-- it was on for several hours.  It was fairly warm in the room, too.  This amp is old-ish and the fuse could have grown weak over time.  I will see what happens after I get a new fuse.


----------



## Badas

cloudbp said:


> Christmas came early for me! got a WA22 with LCD X head phone. totally amazing
> thanks to all the great people at the forum, reco all the great tubes!
> 
> due to some reasons i cant post any pictures of it, i will post some as soon as possible!




I'm using my WA22 and LCD-X right now. First time in 10 or so days. Just been too busy.

It is blowing me away. Sounding so good. Heaps of bass.

I'm using Brimar 5Z4GY, Tung-Sol round plates 6C8G's and GE6AS7GA. I could not want more out of the sound.


----------



## abvolt

yeah i've listened to the lcd-x before they are really nice sure would like to hear the new lcd-4's someday..


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> I have to find a fuse first.  I was running the amp for a longer time period than I would during a normal listening session-- it was on for several hours.  It was fairly warm in the room, too.  This amp is old-ish and the fuse could have grown weak over time.  I will see what happens after I get a new fuse.


 

 Rectifier problems can cause that but so can your regular power surge.


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> Rectifier problems can cause that but so can your regular power surge.


 

 Nope.  I have a dead Woo on my hands.  2nd fuse blew immediately.  Replaced all tubes with different tubes and changed power cords, 3rd fuse blew.  There's something wrong inside.  Time to send it in.


----------



## Stereolab42

reeltime said:


> Nope.  I have a dead Woo on my hands.  2nd fuse blew immediately.  Replaced all tubes with different tubes and changed power cords, 3rd fuse blew.  There's something wrong inside.  Time to send it in.


 
  
 Not under warranty, so I'd suggest taking a look inside and seeing if anything is obviously wrong that could be corrected by a simple component replacement. Everything is large and point-to-point so even with limited soldering skills a repair might be possible.


----------



## reeltime

stereolab42 said:


> Not under warranty, so I'd suggest taking a look inside and seeing if anything is obviously wrong that could be corrected by a simple component replacement. Everything is large and point-to-point so even with limited soldering skills a repair might be possible.


 
  
 This may be the right time to send it in and have the guts upgraded to premium parts.  I'm not much good with a soldering iron, and I wouldn't know the first thing about what to look for.


----------



## Soriordan

Hello,
  
 I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on a comparison between two sets of 6SN7 Drive tubes for the WA22.
  
 - Shuguang treasure cv181-z
 - Sylvania 6SN7GT NOS (woo audio 330$/pair recommended drive tubes)
  
 I'm currently using my WA22 with Sophia Princess 274B mesh,  Sylvania 7236 1963, and stock drive tubes


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> This may be the right time to send it in and have the guts upgraded to premium parts.  I'm not much good with a soldering iron, and I wouldn't know the first thing about what to look for.


 

 I don't think they do separate upgrades anymore unfortunately.  Maybe Glenn can do it?


----------



## amham

soriordan said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on a comparison between two sets of 6SN7 Drive tubes for the WA22.
> 
> ...


 
 More than the type/maufacturer the key is to get QUIET, matched tubes.  I've run through many pairs of various 6SN7's with my WA22 only to find one or more very noisey.  As straight forward as Woo maybe their prices for the "upgraded" tubes are outrageous and I do not believe they take the care necessary at their price point to warrant the expenditure.  Search the net, many bargains exist.  .


----------



## abvolt

soriordan said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on a comparison between two sets of 6SN7 Drive tubes for the WA22.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree Woo's prices are too high, those sylvania 6sn7gt's can be had for a fraction of their price, if you like the 6sn7's take a look at some sylvania's 6sn7wgta they can be had for as little as 30 or 40 per tube and sound really good..


----------



## cloudbp

here is the pic!


----------



## abvolt

awesome man the black wa22 looks real nice..


----------



## Soriordan

Thanks, appreciate the advice. I'm going to look elsewhere, I have some great recommendations. Just wanted to see what others thought about it


----------



## Silent One

kchew said:


> V-Caps in da house. It's going to be a long 240-300 hours of burn in.


----------



## Silent One

reeltime said:


> Nope.  I have a dead Woo on my hands.  2nd fuse blew immediately.  Replaced all tubes with different tubes and changed power cords, 3rd fuse blew.  There's something wrong inside.  Time to send it in.


 
 Sad to hear about your _Woo interrupted. _




 Hope you get it repaired in time to _swing_
 during year-end holidays.
  
 Pulling for you in SoCal.


----------



## 3083joe

silent one said:


>


Sweet
Where can I find someone to do this for me or show me which ones to replace and where to buy.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

3083joe said:


> Sweet
> Where can I find someone to do this for me or show me which ones to replace and where to buy.


 
  
 Glenn can help you out...looks like four interstage coupling caps.  PartsConnexion sells them/V-cap, not cheap though so be prepared to get wallet-hurt.  These take a loooong time to burn in.  Glenn probably recommends Duelund instead, not cheap either.


----------



## 3083joe

sko0bydoo said:


> Glenn can help you out...looks like four interstage coupling caps.  PartsConnexion sells them/V-cap, not cheap though so be prepared to get wallet-hurt.  These take a loooong time to burn in.  Glenn probably recommends Duelund instead, not cheap either.



Thanks. I'll pm 2359glenn see if he is willing to help me.


----------



## kchew

silent one said:


>


 
  
 Good to see you again!
  


3083joe said:


> Sweet
> Where can I find someone to do this for me or show me which ones to replace and where to buy.


 
  
 I got a local DIYer to install the caps for me, the V-Caps were bought from VH Audio. They have the option to match pairs or quads of caps.


----------



## 3083joe

kchew said:


> Good to see you again!
> 
> 
> 
> I got a local DIYer to install the caps for me, the V-Caps were bought from VH Audio. They have the option to match pairs or quads of caps.



Are they called v caps? And there is 4 to replace like I see in pic?
Oh and what uf do i want and what v do i want?
Thanks so much for your help


----------



## kchew

I got 4x V-Cap CuTF 0.22uF 300V.


----------



## 3083joe

kchew said:


> I got 4x V-Cap CuTF 0.22uF 300V.



Thanks.


----------



## 3083joe

kchew said:


> I got 4x V-Cap CuTF 0.22uF 300V.



This the ones
http://www.v-cap.com/cutf-capacitors.php


----------



## abvolt

is replacing those 4 caps enough I thought all needed to be replaced just asking..


----------



## Badas

I don't get all this cap replacement business.

The Transformer can have a big effect on the sound. That is why OTL amps sound nice. So if you are going for high grade caps then why haven't the transformers been changed. Ya would be better served getting a new amp built.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I don't get all this cap replacement business.
> 
> The Transformer can have a big effect on the sound. That is why OTL amps sound nice. So if you are going for high grade caps then why haven't the transformers been changed. Ya would be better served getting a new amp built.


 

 I think it's like tube rolling.  In my limited experience v-caps are very transparent- no grain.  Jupiters are more organic.


----------



## magiccabbage

My birthday was over the weekend. Friends made this cake ¬


----------



## sathyam

magiccabbage said:


> My birthday was over the weekend. Friends made this cake ¬




That's a great cake! Same me a tube .


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Incredible.


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> is replacing those 4 caps enough I thought all needed to be replaced just asking..



No idea
What did you replace?


----------



## magiccabbage

sathyam said:


> That's a great cake! Same me a tube
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 no problem - its huge as well ... ill be eating it for ages to come


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> No idea
> What did you replace?


 
  
 I haven't replaced any caps only read on other boards that if one is going to replace their caps all need to be replaced and that makes sense but I have no experience so can't say for sure, I'd really ask around before spending $$ on stuff that may not yield better sq.. Looking at a tailor made glenn amp would be a better choice imo, I see one in my future..


----------



## Sko0byDoo

abvolt said:


> is replacing those 4 caps enough I thought all needed to be replaced just asking..


 
  
 My opinions, order of cap importance:
  
 1) coupling caps (replace with best possible)
 2) cathode bypass caps, blackgate/elna
 3) power supply caps (film caps are great and cheap..er)
  
 But like badas is saying, get a new build is a better value.


----------



## 2359glenn

1) Coupling caps   go with paper in oil forget about any plastic or film
 2) Bypass caps  forget about black gate all are 10 years old and shot dried up.
 3) power supply film is best but to large unless you are just going to bypass the electrolytic.


----------



## a1uc

Just this upgrade made a nice difference also added a new Furutech G IEC 
  
 I always liked Jupiter Caps


----------



## 2359glenn

Nice I have Jupiter for my next build going to try them much cheaper then Duelund that I normally use.


----------



## Badas

I've had enough of today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I quit.
  
 I'm getting a big as ice cream on the way home. I've had enough of my stupid diet.
  
 and
  
 I'm going to have a 3-4 hour WA22 session. I don't give a stuff about what anyone in my life has to say about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 End of rant. That time of the year I guess.


----------



## a1uc

Or that time of the month


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> Or that time of the month


 





 Everyone is nasty today. Even my Woo friends.


----------



## a1uc

2359glenn said:


> Nice I have Jupiter for my next build going to try them much cheaper then Duelund that I normally use.


 I never thought the gain vs cost was there that's just my 2 cents


----------



## ru4music

a1uc said:


> *I never thought the gain vs cost was there* that's just my 2 cents


 

 Do you mean upgrading to "salon components" in general, or Duelund compared to other vendors?


----------



## jhljhl

Tube rolling telefunken e88cc tubes really nice neutral sounding tube with good extension in wa5le. 6su7gty is very smooth sounding.


----------



## zachawry

I think I'm going to start saving up for a tube amp, and I'd like it to be a Woo. The entire technology suite is daunting to me, though. 
  
 In looking through Woo's product pages, the biggest question I have is, what is the difference between the amps that come as a single piece (like the WA22), or those that come in two pieces (like the 5 or 5E)?
  
 I'd also like to find descriptions of the different functions of rectifier, power, and driver tubes, and maybe some opinions about which make the biggest difference in terms of upgrade benefit. 
  
 Thanks a lot for any input.


----------



## thecrow

zachawry said:


> I think I'm going to start saving up for a tube amp, and I'd like it to be a Woo. The entire technology suite is daunting to me, though.
> 
> In looking through Woo's product pages, the biggest question I have is, what is the difference between the amps that come as a single piece (like the WA22), or those that come in two pieces (like the 5 or 5E)?
> 
> ...


Minot even going to attempt to answer all those questions but first things first - do you have any headphones that you are enjoying and /or sticking with or any you are looking at?


----------



## thecrow

And no doubt you've seen this link earlier in this thread too

http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## zachawry

thecrow said:


> And no doubt you've seen this link earlier in this thread too
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


 

 Yeah, I saw that. Doesn't really answer my questions. 
  
 To answer yours, I listen to Alpha Primes or Ethers out of a Chord Hugo and soon a Cavalli Liquid Carbon.


----------



## thecrow

zachawry said:


> Yeah, I saw that. Doesn't really answer my questions.
> 
> To answer yours, I listen to Alpha Primes or Ethers out of a Chord Hugo and soon a Cavalli Liquid Carbon.


Well this is where I get off. As I've not heard either of those. 

The only thing i can add, which you probably already know, is don't bother looking at the wa2. Good luck


----------



## zachawry

thecrow said:


> Well this is where I get off. As I've not heard either of those.
> 
> The only thing i can add, which you probably already know, is don't bother looking at the wa2. Good luck




Thx. I'm not looking for advice so much as general information about the designs (single vs double unit, etc.) and the explanations about what roles the various tube types play in crafting the sound. The entire subject is pretty daunting. Interesting, but daunting.


----------



## Fririce0003

Had the chance to listen to the Viva Egoista with the Abyss headphones, did a brief write up of the sound compared to the 234's in the Abyss thread which you all might like. Here's the link:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread/3465#post_12158256


----------



## HedgeHog

Howdy,
  
  
 So stupid me didn't read all the fine print and ordered up the WA22.  Now that I have it, I am wondering what everyone tend to recommend for the power cord?  Just a nice 12-14 gauge OEM style like with most electronics?  I was looking at the Pangea and Shunyata Venom but not sure if I need the 9E for the former or the HC for the latter.  My home setup uses Lessloss but I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a cord for this amp.
  
  
 Cheers,
 -H


----------



## MIKELAP

hedgehog said:


> Howdy,
> 
> 
> So stupid me didn't read all the fine print and ordered up the WA22.  Now that I have it, I am wondering what everyone tend to recommend for the power cord?  Just a nice 12-14 gauge OEM style like with most electronics?  I was looking at the Pangea and Shunyata Venom but not sure if I need the 9E for the former or the HC for the latter.  My home setup uses Lessloss but I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a cord for this amp.
> ...


 
 I have the oem chord and tried an upgraded chord and dont here a difference but as they say YMMV .personnally i would spend the money on better tubes


----------



## joseph69

hedgehog said:


> Howdy,
> 
> So stupid me didn't read all the fine print and ordered up the WA22.  Now that I have it, I am wondering what everyone tend to recommend for the power cord?  Just a nice 12-14 gauge OEM style like with most electronics?  I was looking at the Pangea and Shunyata Venom but not sure if I need the 9E for the former or the HC for the latter.  My home setup uses Lessloss but I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a cord for this amp.
> 
> ...


 
(HERE) you go.
 Congratulations on the WA22.


----------



## HedgeHog

mikelap said:


> I have the oem chord and tried an upgraded chord and dont here a difference but as they say YMMV .personnally i would spend the money on better tubes


 
  
 Probably...I have some tubes that I can try from my home system.  I think it should fit (Tung Sol 6F8G w/ Woo adapters, CV181II-T, Sophia Prince 6SN7, EML 5U4G, and Philips 5R4GYS).  No power tubes though...
  


joseph69 said:


> (HERE) you go.
> Congratulations on the WA22.


 
 Yeah, thanks.  I also got tons of those OEM stuff from doing IT.    Weirdly, on the home system, I do hear sonic difference with power cords and, weirdly, fuses.  But I'm not going there with this.
  
 -H


----------



## musicman59

hedgehog said:


> Howdy,
> 
> 
> So stupid me didn't read all the fine print and ordered up the WA22.  Now that I have it, I am wondering what everyone tend to recommend for the power cord?  Just a nice 12-14 gauge OEM style like with most electronics?  I was looking at the Pangea and Shunyata Venom but not sure if I need the 9E for the former or the HC for the latter.  My home setup uses Lessloss but I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a cord for this amp.
> ...



I would go wit the Venom (you don't need the HC) or go to Audiogon and get WireWorld Electra. I have the Electra in my WA5-LE and Silver Electra in my McIntosh MC601s.


----------



## ru4music

hedgehog said:


> Howdy,
> 
> 
> So stupid me didn't read all the fine print and ordered up the WA22.  Now that I have it, I am wondering what everyone tend to recommend for the power cord?  Just a nice 12-14 gauge OEM style like with most electronics?  I was looking at the *Pangea* and Shunyata Venom but not sure if I need the *9E for the former* or the HC for the latter.  My home setup uses Lessloss but I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a cord for this amp.
> ...


 
  
 I use the Pangea power cables on my WA2 system setup.  Yes, I hear a difference when using the Pangea Audio AC 9SE MKII Signature Power Cable for the WA2 and the Pangea Audio AC 14SE MKII Signature Power Cables for my DAC and CDP.  Tighter bass and better spacial/ resolution attributes.  I even noticed a difference between testing  the AC 9 (still have, but not using) and the AC 9 SE.  YMMV


----------



## abvolt

ru4music said:


> I use the Pangea power cables on my WA2 system setup.  Yes, I hear a difference when using the Pangea Audio AC 9SE MKII Signature Power Cable for the WA2 and the Pangea Audio AC 14SE MKII Signature Power Cables for my DAC and CDP.  Tighter bass and better spacial/ resolution attributes.  I even noticed a difference between testing  the AC 9 (still have, but not using) and the AC 9 SE.  YMMV


 
  
 I use those cables as well they did make a big difference for me too.I also use there usb cables..


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Power cables!!!!!
  


 Not that rubbish again.
  
 AVS proved this years ago. It makes no difference. Not unless you have a substation outside your house only feeding you the power. Even then it is debateable. Just get power conditioners. They do make a difference. If it did make a difference the manufacturers wouldn't use stock cables. They would supply better grades.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Just *get power conditioners. They do make a difference. *If it did make a difference the manufacturers wouldn't use stock cables. They would supply better grades.


 
  
 On that topic: I have power conditioners, but relatively low-end ones (Panamax).
  
 I have observed that my head-fi rig sounds better late at night (like 2am+), so I could imagine how a power *regenerator* might really make a difference. Any experience with these? Example: PS Audio Power Plant.
  
 Just curious... not trying to start a debate.


----------



## ru4music

abvolt said:


> I use those cables as well they did make a big difference for me too.*I also use there usb cables*..


 
  
 me too!


----------



## abvolt

Have you ever tried these cables were talking about, There only a few dollars more then the stock cables if you haven't then you really don't know, reading something off some forums board means little. Try first then voice your opinion. I'd never spend 100's or 1000's on any cable but 40 or 50 I'll give it a try, oh yeah they make a difference..


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Power cables!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
 I am inclined to believe that power cables can't add much, however, I have to trust what *I *hear as opposed to what *someone else* says!


----------



## jhljhl

Raytheon clear glass 6f8g.  Lots of air and treble extension.  Reveals slight sibilance.  Bass is focused and quick.  It's like a tsrp but less warm.  A little more natural sounding.  Good compliment to tsrp.


----------



## innocentblood

I’m new to tube amps. My first time ever listening to one was the WA7D @ ISSE. I liked it enough to listen to the WA22 on a different day and I instantly fell in love with it  I connected my Chord Hugo to the WA22 with my iOS device as my source and I was delighted by the sound. The WA22 was using stock tubes by the way.
  
 I’m planning to get the WA22 in the near future. I will be using the Oppo 105D as my source, using the balanced output. My intention is to include the Chord Hugo in the chain as my DAC. At the same time, I am wondering if there are any of you out there using the Chord Hugo TT as a DAC, connected to the WA22? What are your experiences like?
  
 I’m using the Oppo PM1 headphones currently and I intend to get the Ether Open around the same time that I will be purchasing the WA22. Both cans will be connected to the balanced headphone out of the WA22.
  
 Any advice that you can share with me will be appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## jhljhl

innocentblood said:


> I’m new to tube amps. My first time ever listening to one was the WA7D @ ISSE. I liked it enough to listen to the WA22 on a different day and I instantly fell in love with it  I connected my Chord Hugo to the WA22 with my iOS device as my source and I was delighted by the sound. The WA22 was using stock tubes by the way.
> 
> I’m planning to get the WA22 in the near future. I will be using the Oppo 105D as my source, using the balanced output. My intention is to include the Chord Hugo in the chain as my DAC. At the same time, I am wondering if there are any of you out there using the Chord Hugo TT as a DAC, connected to the WA22? What are your experiences like?
> 
> ...


 

 Better to get a balanced dac for wa22 but hugo through the wa22 is very nice in my experience - warm, musical - euphonic.


----------



## zachawry

jhljhl said:


> Better to get a balanced dac for wa22 but hugo through the wa22 is very nice in my experience - warm, musical - euphonic.


 

 I have a Hugo too, and am thinking about the WA22. Some amps have a splitter to split single-ended input into balanced input prior to amplification. 
  
 I assume that the WA22 does not do this?


----------



## jhljhl

zachawry said:


> I have a Hugo too, and am thinking about the WA22. Some amps have a splitter to split single-ended input into balanced input prior to amplification.
> 
> I assume that the WA22 does not do this?


 

 I think the recent ones might?  Not sure better check with Woo.


----------



## HedgeHog

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Power cables!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, dude...that's your opinion.  I can hear audible differences when going from OEM to Venom (pre-3) to Lessloss on the home rig.  It may not be everyone's option but I can hear it.
  
 Ironically, I do have a "Substation"....RGPC's balanced transformer is called just that.   I run a dedicated 2 x 125V/20A to my outlet and the RGPC Substation 240 gives me balanced 120 out.  Based on most people's theory, why should one filter there water at the tap?
  
 YMMV, of course.  Or you perogative.


----------



## HedgeHog

innocentblood said:


> ... I am wondering if there are any of you out there using the Chord Hugo TT as a DAC, connected to the WA22? What are your experiences like?
> 
> I’m using the Oppo PM1 headphones currently and I intend to get the Ether Open around the same time that I will be purchasing the WA22. Both cans will be connected to the balanced headphone out of the WA22.
> 
> Any advice that you can share with me will be appreciated. Thank you.


 
  
 That's the setup I just got...will be hooking it up to see.  Also will investigate sound difference connecting headphones to Hugo TT vs WA22.
  
 How are you planning on connecting the BDP-105D to the DAC?  I'm just using the USB out from my PC for now.


----------



## innocentblood

hedgehog said:


> That's the setup I just got...will be hooking it up to see.  Also will investigate sound difference connecting headphones to Hugo TT vs WA22.
> 
> How are you planning on connecting the BDP-105D to the DAC?  I'm just using the USB out from my PC for now.


 

 very excited for you on your new toy  the BDP-105D has a coaxial output that i will connect to the Hugo TT's coaxial input. at the back of the Hugo TT there are balanced XLR outputs i believe that will then connect to the WA22's balanced XLR inputs - does this make sense to you? i'd be interested to know how you will be hooking up your HUgo TT to the WA22. what are you using as your source?


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Have you ever tried these cables were talking about, There only a few dollars more then the stock cables if you haven't then you really don't know, reading something off some forums board means little. Try first then voice your opinion. I'd never spend 100's or 1000's on any cable but 40 or 50 I'll give it a try, oh yeah they make a difference..




Many years ago I tried a super expensive $500 cable. Blind tested v's a stock cable on a speaker power amp. There was no difference. 

I do hear a big difference when using a power conditioner tho. Some appliances need power on tap.


----------



## Badas

hedgehog said:


> Sorry, dude...that's your opinion.  I can hear audible differences when going from OEM to Venom (pre-3) to Lessloss on the home rig.  It may not be everyone's option but I can hear it.
> 
> Ironically, I do have a "Substation"....RGPC's balanced transformer is called just that.   I run a dedicated 2 x 125V/20A to my outlet and the RGPC Substation 240 gives me balanced 120 out.  Based on most people's theory, why should one filter there water at the tap?
> 
> YMMV, of course.  Or you perogative.




Hhhhmmm, 

There could be differences between countries and voltage. I am on 220-240 volts. I run a power conditioner set to deliver 230 volts constantly. 

I previously got the most expenses power cable I could get locally and gave it a try. Blind tested. Wife was turning equipment on and off and swapping. I could hear no difference. 

AVS blind tested top reviewers with the most expensive monster cable v's crappy telephone cable carefully installed as power cable v's stock cables. No one could hear a difference or pick what they were.

They also did the same experiment to speaker and signal cable. That was a real laugh as they used rolled tin foil as a option. Once again in blind testing no one could hear a difference.


----------



## 2359glenn

I don't even believe in power conditioners they cant put out the instantaneous power that the transformer feeding your house can.
 Your amp should have a good enough power supply to filter out the crap that comes in.


----------



## bfreedma

2359glenn said:


> I don't even believe in power conditioners they cant put out the instantaneous power that the transformer feeding your house can.
> Your amp should have a good enough power supply to filter out the crap that comes in.




^^^

This

Still waiting for anyone to supply actual objective evidence that cables and/or power conditioners are capable of making an audible difference.

7 figure computing and medical hardware systems don't use "high end audiophile" power cables. You would think they would if performance could be impacted.


----------



## 2359glenn

If you are in USA and are crazy put in 240 volt power outlets for your audio equipment and run them at 240.
 240 in the USA & Canada is balanced and the noise will be canceled in your amp.
 Only I am nuts enough to do this I think.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> I don't even believe in power conditioners they cant put out the instantaneous power that the transformer feeding your house can.
> Your amp should have a good enough power supply to filter out the crap that comes in.




When you are talking about a HP amplifier then yes you would be correct. I heard a big difference in home theatre. Let's put it in context. I tested it on 10 power amps at 140watts each (pictured below). The power conditioner made a big difference to the power amps dynamic range. Power on tap. This would not make a difference to one very low powered tube amp.


----------



## HedgeHog

innocentblood said:


> very excited for you on your new toy  the BDP-105D has a coaxial output that i will connect to the Hugo TT's coaxial input. at the back of the Hugo TT there are balanced XLR outputs i believe that will then connect to the WA22's balanced XLR inputs - does this make sense to you? i'd be interested to know how you will be hooking up your HUgo TT to the WA22. what are you using as your source?


 
  
 Thx....I realize that I can connect the XLR from the BDP-105 (mine's not the Darbee version) to the TT but that would negate the TT's DAC function.  I should haul it down and compare though as I've done the Modwright tube mods to this unit.  I would love to have a USB output from the Oppo so I can listen to DSD from the SACDs or BD-A.
  
 The Hugo TT connects to my PC currently.  I'm awaiting the Uptone Regen and HD Plex LPS.  Then I connect the TT to the WA22 for headphone listening when I don't want to listen to the desktop speakers.
  


badas said:


> Hhhhmmm,
> 
> There could be differences between countries and voltage. I am on 220-240 volts. I run a power conditioner set to deliver 230 volts constantly.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, there you go.  As I'm in N/A, I am stuck with the lower voltage.  Hearing any difference is subjective.  I heard it.  You didn't.  While I would love to get objective backing to why I hear it (besides expectation bias), I cannot just leave that to make all my decision.  Those who limit themselves to just that may as well just buy an HP or Tektronix tone generator and listen to sine waves.
  
  


2359glenn said:


> If you are in USA and are crazy put in 240 volt power outlets for your audio equipment and run them at 240.
> 240 in the USA & Canada is balanced and the noise will be canceled in your amp.
> Only I am nuts enough to do this I think.


 
  
 I heard a difference; hence, me putting the Substation 240/120 in.  Previously I had one of the APC H/S15 (or was it H/S20) and while it made my line out constant, I felt it limited my home amps.   And that mechanical relay clicking drove me nuts.
  
  
 Sorry to go off topic.  Anyhoo, I'll connect up the amp and listen.
  
  
 Cheers,
 -H


----------



## Redcarmoose

ru4music said:


> I use the Pangea power cables on my WA2 system setup.  Yes, I hear a difference when using the Pangea Audio AC 9SE MKII Signature Power Cable for the WA2 and the Pangea Audio AC 14SE MKII Signature Power Cables for my DAC and CDP.  Tighter bass and better spacial/ resolution attributes.  I even noticed a difference between testing  the AC 9 (still have, but not using) and the AC 9 SE.  YMMV




The Woo products seem very sensitive to power cables. I too would say "tighter bass and better special resoluton"


----------



## 2359glenn

You think any power conditioner  can supply power faster then the big transformer feeding your house.
 I think NOT.  You think they make your equipment sound better because you spent  allot of money on it.
 As ridicules as  power cords
 The best of These things are a power supply and a SS amp running off a 50 or 60Hz frequency source
 feeding your equipment.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> You think any power conditioner  can supply power faster then the big transformer feeding your house.
> I think NOT.  You think they make your equipment sound better because you spent  allot of money on it.
> As ridicules as  power cords
> The best of These things are a power supply and a SS amp running off a 50 or 60Hz frequency source
> feeding your equipment.


 

 I wasn't the only one that heard a difference adding in a power conditioner. There was a few of us present when we were experimenting with them. We wanted to see what the fuss was about. Also we could all pick it blind. Jurassic Park battle sounded flat without them. Power conditioners aren't that expensive either. One of the cheapest things I have purchased on my rack. I knew in the first minute of listening that I had to add a conditioner in. Difference was that noticeable. We are on 230V 50hz.
  
 We then moved onto expensive power cables. None of us got that right. I flat out couldn't hear a difference.


----------



## jhljhl

I got a pair of ecc31 from langrex a few months ago they worked fine in my wa22 but plugged them into wa5le and I get no sound.  Anyone know what happened?  Filaments light up.


----------



## ru4music

2359glenn said:


> You think any power conditioner  can supply power faster then the *big transformer feeding your house.*
> I think NOT.  You think they make your equipment sound better because you spent  allot of money on it.
> As ridicules as  power cords
> The best of These things are a power supply and a SS amp running off a 50 or 60Hz frequency source
> feeding your equipment.


 

 Glenn, from an electrical engineering perspective, I believe I would be more concerned with how well the loads matched up in this scenario rather than electrical testosterone available from the source.
  
 Maximum AC power transfer occurs with matched impedance (i.e. sum of all inductive/ capacitive reactance plus resistance), and the efficiency of that power delivery is governed by a power factor (i.e. the phase angles of voltage vs.current.)  So, it is very possible that a power conditioner could provide a better impedance match between both the amp and utility power source, as well as improving the overall power factor for delivery.  Remember a load will only draw a given amount of current (under a given electrical scenario) even if 1.21 gigawatts are available from the flux capacitor.
  
 In regards to power cables,  in addition to reducing possible noise from EMI and RFI, the changes listed above can also be affected by cable choice to some degree.  But, every system is different.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Glenn, from an electrical engineering perspective, I believe I would be more concerned with how well the loads matched up in this scenario rather than electrical testosterone available from the source.
> 
> Maximum AC power transfer occurs with matched impedance (i.e. sum of all inductive/ capacitive reactance plus resistance), and the efficiency of that power delivery is governed by a power factor (i.e. the phase angles of voltage vs.current.)  So, it is very possible that a power conditioner could provide a better impedance match between both the amp and utility power source, as well as improving the overall power factor for delivery.  Remember a load will only draw a given amount of current (under a given electrical scenario) even if a 1.21 gigawatts are available from the flux capacitor.


 

 What is your perspective on the other stuff? Signal cables, power cables and speaker cables?
  
 Does electricity really like flowing through nicely wound cables like some manufacturers would like us to believe? Does it know the difference?


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> What is your perspective on the other stuff? Signal cables, power cables and speaker cables?
> 
> Does electricity really like flowing through nicely wound cables like some manufacturers would like us to believe? Does it know the difference?


 

 I believe every system and listener is unique (to at least some extent) and different cable options can be used to tune or tweak to a desired preference.  The more resolving and sound sensitive a system is the more likely a sonic change (e.g. better, worse, or just different) will be detected from a cable swap.
  
 I don't believe that absurd prices (or engineering) necessitate an improvement!  In electronic/ electrical engineering everything you add to a circuit creates a distortion, you just have to make sure the benefit of that addition outweighs the distortion created (albeit, sometimes that distortion appears in the form of an empty wallet!)


----------



## Redcarmoose

2359glenn said:


> You think any power conditioner  can supply power faster then the big transformer feeding your house.
> I think NOT.  You think they make your equipment sound better because you spent  allot of money on it.
> As ridicules as  power cords
> The best of These things are a power supply and a SS amp running off a 50 or 60Hz frequency source
> feeding your equipment.






My face upon hearing my W5LE with new power cables. Can't explain it other than I had my wife do a blind test and I could choose the expensive cable everytime? Maybe my old cord was defective or something?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Probably best just to have people experiment with different cables by borrowing for a test. That way if there is no perceivable difference they have not spent a cent. 

I have learned later in life that there are actually very few truths cemented in stone. Having an open mind is the first step towards mature wisdom.

All this from a member very weary of supposed improvements by expensive cables?


----------



## Fririce0003

I've always trusted my ears over price tags, reviews and word of mouth. Makes it nice and simple, if I like it I like it.
 But I can say to my ears; power conditioning and cables have made a big improvement, only behind different USB cables. 
 Also I'll leave this here for a bit of extra reading 
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/shunyata-power-products-tested-in-medical-applications/


----------



## johnkkraus

Would anyone out there with listening knowledge of both compare the WA5 or WA5 LE to the WA7 Fireflies with TP power Supply?
  
 Also any advice on the sound difference between last year's WA5 purchasing new and the current WA5? 
  
  
 Thanks in advance-


----------



## jhljhl

johnkkraus said:


> Would anyone out there with listening knowledge of both compare the WA5 or WA5 LE to the WA7 Fireflies with TP power Supply?
> 
> Also any advice on the sound difference between last year's WA5 purchasing new and the current WA5?
> 
> ...


 

 A wa5le has greater depth and width in soundstage, extension, tighter richer bass, more euphonic than wa7 with tube p.s.   Wa7 sounds more solid state to me but tube p.s. definitely add much more depth to sound stage.


----------



## zeissiez

The WA5 is a few levels above the WA7 in grandness of the sound


----------



## cas33

Hi guys, I'm currently using the xonar stx soundcard with muses opamp and I'm interested in hopping onboard with these woo audio amps. I use the rca jack to speakers and headphone output to my el-8 open backs. 
 Any recommendations on which woo audio amps I can get started with?


----------



## Audiogalore

jhljhl said:


> A wa5le has greater depth and width in soundstage, extension, tighter richer bass, more euphonic than wa7 with tube p.s.   Wa7 sounds more solid state to me but tube p.s. definitely add much more depth to sound stage.


 
 I have tried all woo products and have owned most. The WA5 is in its own league for sure. Has a big and very liquid sound that can drive all headphones.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## RomRom

Just to say "Hi" to all from Germany, love this wallet unfriendly forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
Well, in your opinion, witch driver is the best sounding tube for the WA22 / Audeze LCD-3?
  
 Tung-Sol 6SN7 round plate black glass
 Mullard ecc35
 Mullard ecc32
 6f8g TungSol or NU  with adapter
... other ?
  
I simply can't decide. 




  
 Thanks in advance! 
 Rom


----------



## jhljhl

Has anyone tried a 6n7 or ecc31 in their WA5 or WA5le???


----------



## jhljhl

romrom said:


> Just to say "Hi" to all from Germany, love this wallet unfriendly forum!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would get the tsrp 6f8g- these are quite popular overall.


----------



## jhljhl

zeissiez said:


> The WA5 is a few levels above the WA7 in grandness of the sound


 
  
 That's not an exaggeration.


----------



## abvolt

jhljhl said:


> That's not an exaggeration.


 
 I would agree with that, my wa22 is a well above above the wa7 and the wa7 can't compare to the wa5 in any way it is vastly better..


----------



## reeltime

Update on my dead WA5LE.  The power transformer fried-- which is why it blew fuse after fuse.  Replacing the transformer is going to set me back $500.  Woo offered to take the amp as trade at $1050.  Total: $1550 which is a fair market value of the amp.  
  
 Yep.  I'm moving to the new WA5LE.    
  
 The reason for the dead transformer is unknown.  Jack says an improperly installed rectifier will blow the transformer, but that was definitely not the case here.  My amp was running at the time of the failure, and I hadn't removed the rectifier in 6 months with plenty of normal use.  Translation: It just wore out.
  
 Now the wait begins for the new amp.  I'm going with the upgraded parts.  Still haven't jumped to the Taks.  I should probably hold off on that move.
  
 Sign me,
  
 Wooless in Los Angeles


----------



## RomRom

abvolt said:


> I would agree with that, my wa22 is a well above above the wa7 and the wa7 can't compare to the wa5 in any way it is vastly better..


 

 +1


----------



## RomRom

Quote:



reeltime said:


> Update on my dead WA5LE.  The power transformer fried-- which is why it blew fuse after fuse.  Replacing the transformer is going to set me back $500.  Woo offered to take the amp as trade at $1050.  Total: $1550 which is a fair market value of the amp.
> 
> Yep.  I'm moving to the new WA5LE.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
Go for it!  The new WA5LE is unique in the market and a beautifully machine!


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> Update on my dead WA5LE.  The power transformer fried-- which is why it blew fuse after fuse.  Replacing the transformer is going to set me back $500.  Woo offered to take the amp as trade at $1050.  Total: $1550 which is a fair market value of the amp.
> 
> Yep.  I'm moving to the new WA5LE.
> 
> ...


 

 How long did you have the amp?


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> How long did you have the amp?


 
  
 +1. It's kinda weird for a transformer to fail like that. They should outlast the owner (unless abused).


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> +1. It's kinda weird for a transformer to fail like that. They should outlast the owner (unless abused).


 

 I wonder what lundahls could do for the amp?


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> I wonder what lundahls could do for the amp?


 
  
 I wasn't going to go there, but now that you mention it...
  
 The WA5 / WA5LE are expensive amps, especially after the recent upgrade and price increase. Why can't they have Lundahls?


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> How long did you have the amp?


 

 Many years.  I've had it for 3 or 4 years, and I bought the amp used.  
  
 The night it failed, I'd been using the amp for 3 or 4 hours, normally it's only on for an hour or two, and the room fairly was toasty.  That may have contributed to the failure.  
  
 It wasn't a dramatic failure, the amp simply shut off.  No smoke, burning smell or anything.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

I believe Woo wind their own transformers, hence keep the prices low.  May be Jack can customize with cost?


----------



## TonyNewman

sko0bydoo said:


> I believe Woo wind their own transformers, hence keep the prices low.  May be Jack can customize with cost?


 
  
 I don't think the prices are 'low' for the WA5 / WA5LE. Just the opposite. Premium priced amps should be using premium components.


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> I wasn't going to go there, but now that you mention it...
> 
> The WA5 / WA5LE are expensive amps, especially after the recent upgrade and price increase. Why can't they have Lundahls?


 

 Maybe he can get Woo to customize his amp with lundahls etc? What about other customizations?


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't going to go there, but now that you mention it...
> ...


 

 Lundahls are to expensive


----------



## daverich4

romrom said:


> Just to say "Hi" to all from Germany, love this wallet unfriendly forum!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Tung-Sol 6F8g. I have the WA22 / LCD-3 combination and the 6F8g's haven't been out of my amp since I got them.


----------



## RomRom

daverich4 said:


> Tung-Sol 6F8g. I have the WA22 / LCD-3 combination and the 6F8g's haven't been out of my amp since I got them.


 

 Thanks! Which rectifier- and powertube do you use?


----------



## daverich4

romrom said:


> Thanks! Which rectifier- and powertube do you use?




WE 422a and Tung-Sol 5998


----------



## RomRom

daverich4 said:


> WE 422a and Tung-Sol 5998


 
  
Superb combination! I'm still looking for a WE 422a. Nearly impossible here to get one...  





 (by the way - if anyone have one in excellent condition to sell and are willing to ship to Germany, please PM me) 
  
I will try Tung-Sol 6F8g in the coming days. Do you have some recommendation for adapters?


----------



## Riona

romrom said:


> Superb combination! I'm still looking for a WE 422a. Nearly impossible here to get one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
[b]2359glenn[/b] is the guy you go to for those adapters!


----------



## Stereolab42

reeltime said:


> Update on my dead WA5LE.  The power transformer fried-- which is why it blew fuse after fuse.  Replacing the transformer is going to set me back $500.  Woo offered to take the amp as trade at $1050.  Total: $1550 which is a fair market value of the amp.
> 
> Yep.  I'm moving to the new WA5LE.
> 
> ...


 
  
 How is it even possible for a wound transformer to go bad... isn't it just a bunch of wire wrapped around a metal core? I don't understand what can physically "blow" in such a component.


----------



## joseph69

stereolab42 said:


> How is it even possible for a wound transformer to go bad... isn't it just a bunch of wire wrapped around a metal core? I don't understand what can physically "blow" in such a component.


 
 A surge?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

stereolab42 said:


> How is it even possible for a wound transformer to go bad... isn't it just a bunch of wire wrapped around a metal core? I don't understand what can physically "blow" in such a component.


 
  
  
 Delamination of the wire coating...short to ground, hence fuses blow left and right.  Though, can only imagine this occurs with old tranny, not 5-10 yr-old tranny.


----------



## daverich4

romrom said:


> [COLOR=2E2E2E]Superb combination! I[/COLOR][COLOR=131313]'m[/COLOR] [COLOR=0B0B0B]still[/COLOR] [COLOR=2E2E2E]looking[/COLOR] [COLOR=0B0B0B]f[/COLOR][COLOR=131313]or a WE 422a. Nearly impossible here to get one...  [/COLOR]  [COLOR=131313](by the way - if anyone[/COLOR] have one in excellent condition to sell and are willing to ship to Germany, please PM me)
> 
> [COLOR=131313]I w[/COLOR][COLOR=0B0B0B]il[/COLOR][COLOR=2E2E2E]l try[/COLOR] Tung-Sol 6F8g [COLOR=1B1B1B]in[/COLOR] [COLOR=131313]the[/COLOR] [COLOR=0B0B0B]comi[/COLOR][COLOR=2E2E2E]ng days. Do you have some recommendation for adapters? [/COLOR]




2359glenn. Really well made and he makes them as a mirror image, that is, there is a left and a right adapter. That way the wires are on the outside for less interference.


----------



## RomRom

daverich4 said:


> 2359glenn. Really well made and he makes them as a mirror image, that is, there is a left and a right adapter. That way the wires are on the outside for less interference.


 

 Thanks again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will ask him...


----------



## Badas

Thanks to Tony I will be putting the Takatsuki TA-274B though it's paces. I haven't turned it on yet so no comments yet. I will give it a serious listen in the next few days. Beautiful to look at.


----------



## Porteroso

Quote:


badas said:


> ^
> 
> Power cables!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
 Not to sit here and engage in an argument, but the idea that anyone disproved the benefit of better engineered power cables by proving that monster audio did not produce a better cable is ridiculous. Monster Audio is a company built upon the premise that if you misuse big words and employ fancy packaging, you can gouge the piss out of most people. Obviously blonde bimbos figured this out a long time ago, so it's not even like monster came up with that.
  
 Back to Woo, I was drunk the other day (read: a few months ago), and I got my leg tangled in my headphone cable as I was running to get some leaves out of the teapot.... It ripped the entire 1/4" socket out of my WA6, and I haven't had the heart to really take the face off and mess with it yet.
  
 Which makes me incredibly sad. I hope the fix is easy, but I know that there is some sort of black plastic part that did get broken, so I imagine that I'll need to look around for a new 1/4" socket, and just try ones till I find one that will fit decently.
  
 A pretty big bummer. Haven't gotten to listen through headphones in months now. That said, it has been an interesting few months. I find that I'm less judgmental of other speakers, and more appreciative of what they do well. Also I find that my ears never hurt these days... I'll need to be careful once I fix the amp, hearing is irreplaceable.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> Thanks to Tony I will be putting the Takatsuki TA-274B though it's paces. I haven't turned it on yet so no comments yet. I will give it a serious listen in the next few days. Beautiful to look at.


 

 He no longer has a use for them.  To pretty a tube to let just sit there.
 So you could put them to good use.


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> Not to sit here and engage in an argument, but the idea that anyone disproved the benefit of better engineered power cables by proving that monster audio did not produce a better cable is ridiculous. Monster Audio is a company built upon the premise that if you misuse big words and employ fancy packaging, you can gouge the piss out of most people. Obviously blonde bimbos figured this out a long time ago, so it's not even like monster came up with that.


 
  
 Dude. I used more than Monster cable. This is old news. In the audio world better power cables etc etc is the oldest snake oil around. I just laugh every time it comes up. Don't believe me then look over at audioholics. Some of their tests have been great. So called audiofiles picking 50 foot screwed up tin foil as the best speaker cable for example.
  
 There has been some terrible stuff on this thread. Like expensive USB cables and fuses providing better sound. USB ONLY PROVIDES X and O INFORMATION. A given cable can't provide a better X and O.
  
 Power cables only provide power. A more expensive cable can't scrub and polish the power to provide a better power. All it can do is provide power. When an appliance is designed they supply the cable that provides the appliances given power and ampage. Unless the company is down right unethical and delibrately trying to wreck their product the supplied cable is all you need. Everything else is snake oil. Snake oil has been around long enough. Time to grow up.
  
 Power cables provide power. Expensive power cables are a waste of $$'s
 Same can be said of fuses.
 Speaker cables provide power to speakers. If you have the right gauge the more expensive cables are a waste of $$'s
 Same can be said of HP cables. I've tried many and they sound the same.
 USB cables send digital information (X and O's). Digital can't be changed into different digital. So an expensive USB cable will provide exactly the same digital information so hence a waste of $$'s
 Mine and many others opinion.


----------



## Porteroso

badas said:


> Dude. In the audio world better power cables etc etc is the oldest snake oil around. I just laugh every time it comes up. Don't believe me then look over at audioholics. Some of their tests have been great. So called audiofiles picking 50 foot screwed up tin foil as the best speaker cable for example.
> 
> There has been some terrible stuff on this thread. Like expensive USB cables and fuses providing better sound. USB ONLY PROVIDES X and O INFORMATION. A given cable can't provide a better X and O.
> 
> Power cables only provide power. A more expensive cable can't scrub and polish the power to provide a better power. All it can do is provide power. When an appliance is designed they supply the cable that provides the appliances given power and ampage. Unless the company is down right unethical and delibrately trying to wreck their product the supplied cable is all you need. Everything else is snake oil. Snake oil has been around long enough. Time to grow up.


 

 Oh ok. You know, without you here to tell me to grow up, I'm not sure I'd ever get that through my obviously thick head. But now that I have you to tell me that, it's like the whole world is right. Boy are we fortunate to have your wisdom!


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> Oh ok. You know, without you here to tell me to grow up, I'm not sure I'd ever get that through my obviously thick head. But now that I have you to tell me that, it's like the whole world is right. Boy are we fortunate to have your wisdom!


 
  
  
 Dude. All this rubbish was disproved in the speaker audio and home theater world about 15-20 years ago. It's like the HP world is the new target market for the slow to learn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 None of these products are getting pitched in those markets anymore. Mega home theaters don't use them either.
  
 My grow up comment was directed at the whole HP market not you directly. All this snake oil information has been posted scientifically for years. It's time the HP market starts reading some of it. The only good reviews you read are not conducted blind or scientifically and often written by the companies making the product. I saw one today by SVS subwoofers. It's very funny actually.
  
 FYI. If you want to waste your $$'s. By all means go ahead. The workers for these snake oil merchants have to eat as well. So away ya go.


----------



## TonyNewman

2359glenn said:


> He no longer has a use for them.  To pretty a tube to let just sit there.
> So you could put them to good use.


 
  
 They are a wonderful rectifier tube. Only use I have for them now is in my WA6. Currently running TA274B and TS RP 6C8Gs in the WA6 with HD600s. Sound is about as good as the WA6 can get - not bad at all.
  
 Some WA6 tube porn, because we all like that sort thing...


----------



## Badas

^
  
 I had a listen to that in the weekend. Wonderful. Lol. The Tubes are worth more than the amp.
  
 Curious to see what effect the Tak 274B will have on my WA22. I will give it a go later this afternoon.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> ^
> 
> I had a listen to that in the weekend. Wonderful. Lol. The Tubes are worth more than the amp.
> 
> Curious to see what effect the Tak 274B will have on my WA22. I will give it a go later this afternoon.


 

 I'm curious too, 
 Probably order one after christmas, just because


----------



## MIKELAP

Received a pair of French made Military ,La Radio Technique Visseaux 6N7GT another type usable with the ECC 31 to 6SN7 adapters in my WA22 . Internal structure seems very similar to the ST type Military Mazda 6N7G that were made in France also ,possibly by the same company . First 2 pictures of Mazda 6N7G top plates seem the same as Visseaux tube  and bottom getter also .Will sample the 2 to see if they sound similar or not


----------



## nwavesailor

badas said:


> Same can be said of HP cables. I've tried many and they sound the same.


 
 I'm am NOT a cable guy............but my OEM hp cable was so stiff I tried a replacement cable from China. It was cheap (my choice) but it does not conduct as well (much lower gain at same setting) or sound as good as the OEM cable. Lack of detail and lifeless. Lesson learned. Some cables do sound worse than others................. at least IMO.


----------



## Badas

Finially cranked up the WA22 with the Tony supplied TAK 274B. 
Damn this thing is mellow. Nicely so. If it wasn't so expensive I would get some of these.

Compared to the Brimar the TAK is a lot more mellow. The Brimar beats the TAK in dynamics. 

I also finially finished my music corner in my home theatre. No more silly Star Wars pictures. Also did a vinyl wall display. I'm very pleased with the look.


----------



## jhljhl

Trying the hd650 with wa5le -it scales very well.  It expands the sound stage of the hd650 to its max without being too dark or lush- though it is on the lush side.  It is the best I've heard the hd650 because of this even compared to decware csp2+ and wa2.  Both of which are very good but the increase in x,y,z axis really makes this the best combination I think.


----------



## svmusa

Are there adapters available to use 6SN7 tubes on WA6-SE? I saw very old posts Glenn and Woo made some but not sure is the case anymore.
Also using 6SN7 impacts rated power output on WA6-SE?


----------



## joseph69

svmusa said:


> Are there adapters available to use 6SN7 tubes on WA6-SE? I saw very old posts Glenn and Woo made some but not sure is the case anymore.
> Also using 6SN7 impacts rated power output on WA6-SE?


 
 At one point @2359glenn had stopped making the 6SN7>6DE7 adapters for the WA6/SE, but does make them again and are very well built...I have them for my WA6.


----------



## teknikk7

Was someone looking for a matched pair of USAF-596?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/792118/usaf-596-matched-pair-596-tubes-nos


----------



## RomRom

> 2359glenn. Really well made and he makes them as a mirror image, that is, there is a left and a right adapter. That way the wires are on the outside for less interference.


 
  
 Now, I am waiting to get my 6F8G adapters from Glenn.


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> Received a pair of French made Military ,La Radio Technique Visseaux 6N7GT another type usable with the ECC 31 to 6SN7 adapters in my WA22 . Internal structure seems very similar to the ST type Military Mazda 6N7G that were made in France also ,possibly by the same company . First 2 pictures of Mazda 6N7G top plates seem the same as Visseaux tube  and bottom getter also .Will sample the 2 to see if they sound similar or not



What's the rectifier?


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Received a pair of French made Military ,La Radio Technique Visseaux 6N7GT another type usable with the ECC 31 to 6SN7 adapters in my WA22 . Internal structure seems very similar to the ST type Military Mazda 6N7G that were made in France also ,possibly by the same company . First 2 pictures of Mazda 6N7G top plates seem the same as Visseaux tube  and bottom getter also .Will sample the 2 to see if they sound similar or not
> ...


 
 The rectifier is a Globe shape  280   with a 5Z3 to 5U4 adapter. These are the equivalent  you can use     http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ux280.html


----------



## abvolt

mike you mentioned those rectifiers before they sure look cool hows the sound quality..


----------



## 2359glenn

You can get the 80/280 in mesh plate too if you look hard.
 They really look cool I have one in my preamp.


----------



## Porteroso

badas said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > Oh ok. You know, without you here to tell me to grow up, I'm not sure I'd ever get that through my obviously thick head. But now that I have you to tell me that, it's like the whole world is right. Boy are we fortunate to have your wisdom!
> ...


 
 I mean, it's not even questionable that a power source can affect the performance of electronics. And I don't think that for me, it's reasonable to expect audible differences from a product that amounts to some super pure braided copper that somehow is unique and original. But there are power solutions, whether they be supplies or cables, that are engineered differently than your typical power cable. I agree that most of that is snake oil. And believe it or not, you are not the first person to say so. You seem to be emotionally invested in telling people what is right and wrong, and believe me, I also understand that. I know many people partial to being right and telling everyone else all about it.
  
 But what people in any sort of audio world have not done, is scientifically disprove some of the newer cables out there. And really I am only thinking of the Shunyata cable. Already someone has posted an article of that power cable being tested in a medical application, where it removed a substantial amount of noise, which reduced the margin of error on whatever gizmo they were testing it on. Could those doctors be lying? Maybe. Does that mean that there is an audible difference when used in an audio application? I don't know, I haven't tried it and probably never will. With your attitude, neither will you, though I don't doubt that you'll be fine with proclaiming your admitted lack of first hand knowledge of the cable as the absolute final word.
  
 I guess this is not the kind of argument I want to be engaging in on this forum, and I think I pretty clearly stated that in my first post. It's not something I would want to read, so I apologize to anyone reading. But your know it all attitude, that seems to stem wholly from some tests that you read some pro audio guys did back in the 90s, just irks me. That type of blind willful ignorance is also not something that has any place on this forum. So ya, I guess after this, I won't post again on the matter. You though, should feel free to continue to demean people who don't share your opinion. I often find that next to first hand factual findings, personal attacks are, apparently, the most useful way of arguing on the internet.
  
 In Woo news, my amp is still broken  I might email their support and see if they have a suggestion, or maybe I can just buy the fitting from them.


----------



## reeltime

porteroso said:


> In Woo news, my amp is still broken  I might email their support and see if they have a suggestion, or maybe I can just buy the fitting from them.


 
  
 I feel for you, man.  My WA5LE died a few weeks ago.  Woo took my broken one in trade for a new WA5LE.  It will be a few weeks before I get the new one.


----------



## maheeinfy

Hello guys,

Need help in fixing an issue with my newly purchased WA2. I am using it with T1 and few other cans.

It does hum through the headphones when volume is at 11' clock and hum only becomes louder from there. I measured and it seems like hum is around 120Hz 

i did some testing to isolate the device in the chain that is causing this problem. I found that when nothing is connected to amp(except power), there is no hum.

However when i connect a DAC, there is hum thru headphones. Even with DAC turned off, there is hum(i tried output of Schiit Modi, Emotiva DC1, line out of Fiio X3ii - each of them powered off and not even connected to laptop)

I tried different power cable, wall sockets, even took the amp to friend's apartment for testing, and the result has been same. 

I have a Magni, O2, few speaker amps from Emotiva - none of them have any hum issues.

I am told by WA to upgrade cables,dac to resolve the hum problem. I am yet to go that route.

Also, one of the 6080 tubes i received, i think is faulty. It gives out hiss on one of the cups on headphone, even at zero volume. When i switch 6080 tubes on the amp from left to right, hiss also switches on headphones.


----------



## TonyNewman

maheeinfy said:


> ....
> I am told by WA to upgrade cables,dac to resolve the hum problem....
> ....


 
  
 Upgrade cables or change your DAC to deal with an amp hum? That is kinda odd advice. The amp should be able to connect to any DAC, and the cable thing I don't want to touch.
  
 Is this a brand new WA2 (i.e. under warranty)?


----------



## maheeinfy

tonynewman said:


> Upgrade cables or change your DAC to deal with an amp hum? That is kinda odd advice. The amp should be able to connect to any DAC, and the cable thing I don't want to touch.
> 
> Is this a brand new WA2 (i.e. under warranty)?



Brand new from WA. I spoke to Mike at WA and was told- since amp is silent on its own, it has no problem and the rest of the gear in the chain need upgrade. 

Before i go that route, i am trying to find out by reading/asking around, about hum problems in tube amps


----------



## Khragon

Just return it and get your money back. I can tell you it's not the cable or your dac. Horrible trouble shooting advice.


----------



## TonyNewman

maheeinfy said:


> Brand new from WA.


 
  
 If the amp is still humming after 300 to 500 hours I would be asking Woo to fix it. Some noises do go away during burn in.


----------



## Porteroso

reeltime said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > In Woo news, my amp is still broken  I might email their support and see if they have a suggestion, or maybe I can just buy the fitting from them.
> ...


 
 Yeah, I saw a few of your posts, skimming around trying to catch up on not reading this for a few months. Sorry about that, it sounds pretty terrible. I mean I hate to sound callused, but this is a really good failure story, because you see enough value in the product that you're willing to go through a "money loss" transaction that most people in most consumer areas would find abhorrent. I do think that Woo managed to find a good balance of features, build quality/aesthetics, and price. Out of that comes great sound through our headphones. I know that if my WA6 broke for good, I'd just get another one. Or maybe I'd use that as an excuse to get a WA5, who knows what wonders the human mind can work???
  
 But ya, that sucks donkey balls. Hope you get it and are back on track as soon as possible. I'm a big fan of the Woo products myself. It probably helps their case that I've never tried anything else that's comparable, but then, I read a lot before I decided on the WA6. I think that we may just be living in the golden age of audio, so these manufactures who are really pumping out quality hardware are our friends, much more than we realize. It won't be long before records start to get scarce. Won't be much longer after that before the ones in existence are deteriorating. One day, who knows what all technology they'll have come up with. Maybe the nice music players will holographically present a past performance in front of you, with direct brain-connects going on and all that. I tell you one thing, they won't be having as much fun as I have rolling with my stuff here today. 1 2 3 Go WOO!!!!!!
  
 Yeah I got a little ridiculous there at the end, but I'm drunk, so who cares? Oh by the way, Merry Christmas! This one, along with the rest, they're all great reminders to think about life and make sure we're valuing what should be valued. I really do hope you all are happy, and if you're not, that you take it upon yourselves to make it that way this year.


----------



## TonyNewman

porteroso said:


> ... I know that if my WA6 broke for good, I'd just get another one. Or maybe I'd use that as an excuse to get a WA5...


 
  
 I wouldn't recommend that path. I have both the WA6 and WA5. The WA6 I still use and enjoy. The WA5 is boxed up in the space under my stairs and will likely never see the light of day again. For the money Woo are asking for the WA5/WA5LE I think there are other options out there that are better built and better sounding (YMMV).


----------



## maheeinfy

tonynewman said:


> If the amp is still humming after 300 to 500 hours I would be asking Woo to fix it. Some noises do go away during burn in.



I haven't used the amp that long due to these hum issue. In addition, one of the tubes gives out hiss. 
I am considering getting a pair new power tubes for the hiss problem


----------



## TonyNewman

maheeinfy said:


> I haven't used the amp that long due to these hum issue. In addition, one of the tubes gives out hiss.
> I am considering getting a pair new power tubes for the hiss problem


 
  
 I like the advice from Khragon on this one.


----------



## maheeinfy

khragon said:


> Just return it and get your money back.



Thanks. Since amp is supposedly not faulty, it would cost me (10% ??) for returning. I was considering returning, but was told multiple times that amp is working fine.
Edit: Corrected %


----------



## TonyNewman

maheeinfy said:


> Thanks. Since amp is supposedly not faulty, it would cost me (25% ??) for returning. I was considering returning, but was told multiple times that amp is working fine.


 
  

_"It does hum through the headphones when volume is at 11' clock and hum only becomes louder from there. I measured and it seems like hum is around 120Hz_
_i did some testing to isolate the device in the chain that is causing this problem. I found that when nothing is connected to amp(except power), there is no hum._
_However when i connect a DAC, there is hum thru headphones. Even with DAC turned off, there is hum(i tried output of Schiit Modi, Emotiva DC1, line out of Fiio X3ii - each of them powered off and not even connected to laptop)"_
  
 That does not sound like 'working fine' to me. I would expect Woo to stand by their product and fix it (or replace, or refund). Leaving you holding the bag is not the right thing to do IMHO.


----------



## Stereolab42

maheeinfy said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Need help in fixing an issue with my newly purchased WA2. I am using it with T1 and few other cans.
> 
> ...




You have to take into account headphone sensitivity. Is the humming noticeable on any headphone at a volume setting where you would normally be listening to music?


----------



## RomRom

Still looking for a nice matched pair of Mullard ECC35 brown base.
 Well, what difference do you guys hear, between tall and short base on WA22?


----------



## 2359glenn

maheeinfy said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > Just return it and get your money back.
> ...


 

 It's no good and they still want a 10% handling fee. Nice


----------



## thecrow

maheeinfy said:


> Thanks. Since amp is supposedly not faulty, it would cost me (10% ??) for returning. I was considering returning, but was told multiple times that amp is working fine.
> Edit: Corrected %


Wow! My first impression is that doesn't say much for the 3 dacs you used with your woo amp. All 3 of those manufacturers (or your interconnects) are making these faulty/hummy dacs. You need to choose your dacs better and bring up these faults on the appropriate threads. 

Are you able to try someone else's/local stores woo amp with you're dacs and interconnects? You seem to have eliminated all other possibilities unless you haven't yet tried a second set of interconnects.


----------



## thecrow

stereolab42 said:


> You have to take into account headphone sensitivity. Is the humming noticeable on any headphone at a volume setting where you would normally be listening to music?


I'm no expert but that's a good question - what HPs are you using


----------



## 2359glenn

Try the amp with nothing plugged into it.
 120Hz is from the power supply not interconnects that would give 60Hz hum.
 And if it is the power supply in the amp the 120Hz will be more like a buzz.


----------



## maheeinfy

2359glenn said:


> It's no good and they still want a 10% handling fee. Nice


 

 Just to clarify, I didn't yet talk to WA about return. Their reasoning is that amp doesn't hum when no input is connected, so amp has no issues. So, i thought if i return it, i will be charged handling fee.


----------



## pippen99

Need some help please.  Just took delivery of a six month old WA5.  This is my  first tube amp so if this question is stupid please be kind.  Both of the Sophia Royla Princes 300b tubes have loose shards of glass and/or black material inside the tube.  Is this normal and safe to use?  The stock tubes are not like this. Also the Woo website is not really clear about second owner warranty rights.  Do I have any?  Thanks for your forbearance and help.


----------



## maheeinfy

stereolab42 said:


> You have to take into account headphone sensitivity. Is the humming noticeable on any headphone at a volume setting where you would normally be listening to music?


 
 Hum is not noticeable for lot of music i listen to. However on silent passages, i tend to turn up the volume and hum gets noticeable
  


thecrow said:


> Wow! My first impression is that doesn't say much for the 3 dacs you used with your woo amp. All 3 of those manufacturers (or your interconnects) are making these faulty/hummy dacs. You need to choose your dacs better and bring up these faults on the appropriate threads.
> 
> Are you able to try someone else's/local stores woo amp with you're dacs and interconnects? You seem to have eliminated all other possibilities unless you haven't yet tried a second set of interconnects.


 
 Here is my gear
 DAC - Schiit Modi Gen1, Emotiva DC1, Fiio X3ii. 
 Interconnect: Schiit PYST, Emotiva X RCA
 USB: Belkin Gold series 10foot, Emotiva MUSB (this wont matter as i am not connecting the DACs to laptop). DACs are powered off in all my testing.
  
 What i don't understand is all these work fine in my solid state setup. No hum even at max volume. I have ordered some Bluejeans LC1 RCA cables, so that is my next step in testing.
 Unfortunately i don't know anyone with a Woo amp, none of my friends are into audio.
  


thecrow said:


> I'm no expert but that's a good question - what HPs are you using


 
 Beyer T1, Shure SRH1540, AKG K240


----------



## maheeinfy

2359glenn said:


> Try the amp with nothing plugged into it.
> 120Hz is from the power supply not interconnects that would give 60Hz hum.
> And if it is the power supply in the amp the 120Hz will be more like a buzz.


 

 When nothing is connected(except power), there is no hum.
  
 Amp does hum even when used as preamp. So i connected its output to my emotiva speaker amp and made a little video capturing the hum Its with my phone, so not the best mic was used, but it seems to capture the hum.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLwxn6veb6g


----------



## GrindingThud

That sounds like power supply noise. I had to do a lot of work on my WA3 to suppress the noise low enough for my satisfaction.
Short the amp input and verify no noise at all volume positions.


----------



## 2359glenn

No hum with nothing connected even with the volume turned up ???


----------



## maheeinfy

2359glenn said:


> No hum with nothing connected even with the volume turned up ???


 

 That's right.
 Out of the four inputs, I connected only input1. Switching inputs using the knob, on input1 there is hum, and switching to other inputs, its silent.
  
 Just making the connection with a device is causing the hum.


----------



## maheeinfy

grindingthud said:


> That sounds like power supply noise. I had to do a lot of work on my WA3 to suppress the noise low enough for my satisfaction.
> Short the amp input and verify no noise at all volume positions.


 

 'Short the amp input' - You mean connect left and right input with a single RCA cable? If yes, I did that and there is no hum.
  
 Can you tell me how you were able to reduce noise on WA3? Did u have that noise problem with your solid state gear(if you own)


----------



## 2359glenn

With the volume turned down should be the same as a shorted input.
 If you have no hum with  no input the amp is OK.
 You are ether having a ground loop or is coming from your DAC


----------



## GrindingThud

No, I meant the center pin of the rca to the outer ring (signal short to signal signal common).....
The WA3 mods are in the thread in my signature line. 




maheeinfy said:


> 'Short the amp input' - You mean connect left and right input with a single RCA cable? If yes, I did that and there is no hum.
> 
> Can you tell me how you were able to reduce noise on WA3? Did u have that noise problem with your solid state gear(if you own)


----------



## GrindingThud

Totally agree with this!


2359glenn said:


> With the volume turned down should be the same as a shorted input.
> If you have no hum with  no input the amp is OK.
> You are ether having a ground loop or is coming from your DAC


----------



## maheeinfy

2359glenn said:


> With the volume turned down should be the same as a shorted input.
> If you have no hum with  no input the amp is OK.
> You are ether having a ground loop or is coming from your DAC


 
 Thanks. 
  
 Since all my DAC's are turned off in my testing, out of those two, it's possible that it is ground loop problem. However all my other gear doesn't seem to have this problem. 
  
 I tested WA2 with many wall sockets in my apartment; even took the amp to a friend's apartment for testing, and the hum was there every time.


----------



## RomRom

> it's possible that it is ground loop problem.


 
  
 Please disconnect earth line on your power cord (or try a two-prong AC power cord - no ground) to see if the hum goes away. This is purely for testing and is *NOT* a permanent solution!


----------



## redcat2

pippen99 said:


> Need some help please.  Just took delivery of a six month old WA5.  This is my  first tube amp so if this question is stupid please be kind.  Both of the Sophia Royla Princes 300b tubes have loose shards of glass and/or black material inside the tube.  Is this normal and safe to use?  The stock tubes are not like this. Also the Woo website is not really clear about second owner warranty rights.  Do I have any?  Thanks for your forbearance and help.


 

 Hi, The answer is yes and no, it is quite normal to see older tubes with little bit of glass in them not ideal but normal, as to the sound it does not make any relay difference in my opinion to the sound. I have had one or two tubes turn up like this over the years just happens sometimes in transport. Safe to use yes.


----------



## FredrikT92

For those who got WA6-SE with HD600/HD650, how much is the clock at the pot arrow? 
 My phone shows 92dB peaks at 9 a clock! Holy cow


----------



## shuanggao

I'm using WA3 now, rolling with Tung-sol 5998 as power tube and Amperex 7308 as rectifying tube.
 It works great with my HD650 and DT880 (600ohm), beyond my expecting before.


----------



## ru4music

shuanggao said:


> I'm using WA3 now, rolling with Tung-sol 5998 as power tube and *Amperex 7308 as rectifying tube.*
> It works great with my HD650 and DT880 (600ohm), beyond my expecting before.


 
 FWIW - The Amperex 7308 are used as driver tubes in the WA3 which also has solid state rectification.  And yes, that combo sounds good especially since the WA3 was designed around the HD650.


----------



## shuanggao

ru4music said:


> FWIW - The Amperex 7308 are used as driver tubes in the WA3 which also has solid state rectification.  And yes, that combo sounds good especially since the WA3 was designed around the HD650.



Hah, thank you for correcting!


----------



## Kimakaze

My biggest issue with hums and buzzes is RFI interference. My Sonos connect would cause buzzing or humming when I had it next to my WA6-SE and WA2. My Fostex TH-X00 would pick up noise when I got close to one of my Dell 24 LCD monitors.

Relocating the Sonos connect a couple of feet away fixed the issue in both my office and Media room.


----------



## musicman59

maheeinfy said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Need help in fixing an issue with my newly purchased WA2. I am using it with T1 and few other cans.
> 
> ...


 
 It seems to me that it could be a ground loop issue. Try lifting (use a cheater plug to eliminate the ground terminal in the 3 prong plugs) the ground on both the DAC and the amp.


----------



## maheeinfy

musicman59 said:


> It seems to me that it could be a ground loop issue. Try lifting (use a cheater plug to eliminate the ground terminal in the 3 prong plugs) the ground on both the DAC and the amp.


 
 Thank you. I have ordered some cheater plugs. I will update my findings here soon
  
 What i don't get is none of my other gear which is solid state, doesn't have this problem.


----------



## Badas

Happy New Years Woo dudes.




I'm taking my second listen using the WA22 and the TAK274B rectifier. Using overly harsh music. It can get ugly. Music with the TAK is smooth. The TAK is a very special rectifier. Not sure it is worth the price leap of other rectifier options tho. 

Thanks to Tony I am really enjoying the TAK.

Happy listening guys.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Happy New Years Woo dudes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you like it. Did you notice any improvement in bass with the TA274B? When I used them in the WA5 the bass went deeper and tighter (oh er).


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Glad you like it. Did you notice any improvement in bass with the TA274B? When I used them in the WA5 the bass went deeper and tighter (oh er).




Yes. I am noticing the bass. More of it and more quality. 

It tends to have more of everything compared to the Brimar. Not a lot more but a touch more of everything. The immediate result to me is that it gets closer to the music so smoother. The Brimar seems faker in comparison. Brimar is a damn good tube tho. TAK just does everything so damn right.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Yes. I am noticing the bass. More of it and more quality.
> 
> It tends to have more of everything compared to the Brimar. Not a lot more but a touch more of everything. The immediate result to me is that it gets closer to the music so smoother. The Brimar seems faker in comparison. Brimar is a damn good tube tho. TAK just does everything so damn right.



Awesome to hear. 
I just ordered on Monday. They said 3-4 week wait.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Awesome to hear.
> I just ordered on Monday. They said 3-4 week wait.




How much are they? The one I'm using is Tony's. I think I might have to get one as well.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> How much are they? The one I'm using is Tony's. I think I might have to get one as well.



$856 shipped from pricejapan.com
Or $972 shipped from woo


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> $856 shipped from pricejapan.com
> Or $972 shipped from woo




Youch!


----------



## Redcarmoose

I too had a small hum issue this weekend with my Woo 3. I ended up plugging it into it's own plug and the hum went away, to the place it normally is which is not noticeable unless the volume goes above 75%. Every tube amp I have ever had, even starting in 1973 has a a hum of some level. Luckily though they stay well below a noticeable level for real life applications. Though I could visualize how many new to tube amps could become obsessed with the aspect to a degree.


----------



## formento

Hi, guys. New subscriber. I'm just bought a Sennheiser HD-600 and love it. I plan to buy a Woo headphone amp. It will be stock, no upgraded tubes. In your opinions ... WA3 or WA6?


----------



## koiloco

formento said:


> Hi, guys. New subscriber. I'm just bought a Sennheiser HD-600 and love it. I plan to buy a Woo headphone amp. It will be stock, no upgraded tubes. In your opinions ... WA3 or WA6?


 
 Get WA6 if you can spare the extra $100.


----------



## 3083joe

formento said:


> Hi, guys. New subscriber. I'm just bought a Sennheiser HD-600 and love it. I plan to buy a Woo headphone amp. It will be stock, no upgraded tubes. In your opinions ... WA3 or WA6?



Wa6 no question


----------



## 3083joe

My new passion "vinyl"


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> My new passion "vinyl"


 
  Nice pic-are those ECC35's? I really like them but I have not compared them to Ecc32 and Ecc33.  How do they compare?


----------



## 3083joe

Thanks my friend. 
Yes 35s. They are my favs compared to all ecc3x, sold all my others and got two pairs of them. 
Oh kept a set of 31s just for back up of back ups.


----------



## Clayton SF

Happy New Year!
  
 This morning I came across a local hi-fi shop a few blocks from where I live. They were open; I passed. My wallet dragged me away from there.


----------



## Krutsch

formento said:


> Hi, guys. New subscriber. I'm just bought a Sennheiser HD-600 and love it. I plan to buy a Woo headphone amp. It will be stock, no upgraded tubes. In your opinions ... WA3 or WA6?


 

 WA3 ... no question about it, for high impedance cans.


----------



## TrojanRB

krutsch said:


> WA3 ... no question about it, for high impedance cans.




WA6-SE is about double the price, if he can swing it. But well worth it, and separate outputs for both high & low impedance.


----------



## formento

WA6 is switchable for either low or high impedance cans. Is WA3 still the better choice, and why?
  
  
  


krutsch said:


> WA3 ... no question about it, for high impedance cans.


----------



## u2u2

formento said:


> Hi, guys. New subscriber. I'm just bought a Sennheiser HD-600 and love it. I plan to buy a Woo headphone amp. It will be stock, no upgraded tubes. In your opinions ... WA3 or WA6?


 

 I went through the WA3, WA6, WA6SE conundrum at this time last year. Was using Sony Z7 headphones at the time but higher impedance phones were in the future plan. Opted for the WA6 and have not regretted it. No intention to tube roll at the time but now I have a good assortment of tubes. Added Sennheiser HD800 phones and the Woo impedance switch does the job. With plenty of good tubes, phones, and some upgraded cables a WA22 just joined my fleet. If you enjoy what you buy you might, in future, decide to tube roll etc. Leave yourself room to change your mind if funds permit. Cheaper to spend a little extra now than change amps later. Enjoy it which ever way you go.


----------



## Krutsch

formento said:


> *WA6 is switchable for either low or high impedance* cans. Is WA3 still the better choice, and why?


 
  
 Correct, but you posted that *you wanted the best amp for the HD-600s*, which are high-impedance cans (300 ohm). So, my recommendation remains unchanged, unless you want to level-up to the WA2.


----------



## thecrow

formento said:


> WA6 is switchable for either low or high impedance cans. Is WA3 still the better choice, and why?


I believe wa3 v wa6 is like wa2 v wa6se. The two OTL amps (wa3 and wa2) are designed for high impedance headphones like the hd600 and have a little more smoothness to them whereas the others are more of a solid state amp kind of sound so less smooth and less tubey but is more versatile if you are looking for other headphones in the future that are not high impedance. 

All the advice I've received for my hd800s was that the wa2 is the best bang for buck if you can stretch it there, and you may want to upgrade your tubes as you go too (ouch $$) so I bought the wa2 for my hd800s and that is my system knowing that my ideal headphone selections are limited with this amp. 

So perhaps think if you will be wanting other headphones in the future too to be used with whichever amp you choose. 

One other note: I also was advised that the wa6se with stock tubes is better than the wa2 with stock tubes but the wa2 had more potential with better tubes. 


Also gave a read of the "sibling rivalry" thread of the wa2 v wa6se. That might give you an idea of what the OTL amps offer v the other. 

And finally I hope you've got a chance to listen to whatever amps you have I your radar - you can't beat that.


----------



## thecrow

Or perhaps don't pick up a tube amp and get into this world that could involve tube rolling. 

I previously had a soloist amp (lively amp on a slightly brighter side) and an arcam irdac (rich, slightly warm, lush mids) and they could well suit the hd600. 

Another versatile combo (with very well together) that I was really happy with using my wa2 until I wanted a little more smoothness and bought the wa2. 

The irdac/soloist combo also works well with planners like the hifiman and audezes if that's a path you may want to go towards in the future. 

Just my two bobs worth


----------



## abvolt

Anyone know if a 6SL7 will work in place of a ecc35 for the wa22 thanks..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> Anyone know if a 6SL7 will work in place of a ecc35 for the wa22 thanks..


 
 i use them in my WA22 plug&play


----------



## abvolt

awesome thanks mike, I.ve been thinking of a set of mullard 6SL7's I'd like to try..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

clayton sf said:


> Happy New Year!
> 
> This morning I came across a local hi-fi shop a few blocks from where I live. They were open; I passed. My wallet dragged me away from there.


 
  
 AVSF is wonderful. Hope you got to listen to some Woo Audio amps.


----------



## joseph69

clayton sf said:


> Happy New Year!
> 
> This morning I came across a local hi-fi shop a few blocks from where I live. They were open; I passed. My wallet dragged me away from there.


 
 Thats awesome…I wish there were audio shops were I live that I could just walk to.


----------



## Redcarmoose

joseph69 said:


> Thats awesome…I wish there were audio shops were I live that I could just walk to.




 

Awesome?

Never seen such a den of temptation, with the potential to destroy bank accounts, marriage and peace of mind.


----------



## u2u2

joseph69 said:


> Thats awesome…I wish there were audio shops were I live that I could just walk to.


 

 It can be a dangerous thing. I walked into one on Saturday and walked out with a Woo WA22. It is a recent build with the smooth volume control and phase splitter. I have been trying it out with RCA interconnects to a Woo WDS-1 DAC. I will be adding balanced interconnects tonight. After reading the mind numbing WA22 threads I still don't know if I should get balanced cables for my HD800 headphones but I suspect not.
  
 With the latest updates on the WA22 is it worth going balanced output, or should I spend the money on tubes and music? 
  
 All thoughts welcome.


----------



## MIKELAP

u2u2 said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > Thats awesome…I wish there were audio shops were I live that I could just walk to.
> ...


 
 What i did is buy balanced interconnects ,use stock cable for my HD800 and buy tubes


----------



## u2u2

mikelap said:


> What i did is buy balanced interconnects ,use stock cable for my HD800 and buy tubes


 

 Appreciate that, it is where I am leaning. Did you try balanced output at all? Big cable cost maybe for not...


----------



## MIKELAP

u2u2 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > What i did is buy balanced interconnects ,use stock cable for my HD800 and buy tubes
> ...


 
 This is what i found on the subject


----------



## joseph69

u2u2 said:


> It can be a dangerous thing. I walked into one on Saturday and walked out with a Woo WA22. It is a recent build with the smooth volume control and phase splitter. I have been trying it out with RCA interconnects to a Woo WDS-1 DAC. I will be adding balanced interconnects tonight. After reading the mind numbing WA22 threads I still don't know if I should get balanced cables for my HD800 headphones but I suspect not.
> 
> With the latest updates on the WA22 is it worth going balanced output, or should I spend the money on tubes and music?
> 
> All thoughts welcome.


 
 This sounds like a great thing instead of a dangerous thing to me!
 Congratulations on the WA22!
 As far as I understand it, balanced cables are for long length runs usually used in studio's. Their is a lot of controversy about this subject, and the only balanced system I had/heard was the Stax-009 and the KGSShv which doesn't have a SE option so I couldn't compare SE/balanced.
  


mikelap said:


> What i did is buy balanced interconnects ,use stock cable for my HD800 and buy tubes


 
 Mike, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought if you used SE output your better off using SE interconnects as well? So I thought it was one way or the other to get the best results.


----------



## thecrow

joseph69 said:


> This sounds like a great thing instead of a dangerous thing to me!
> Congratulations on the WA22!
> 
> 
> ...



Be careful what you wish for. 

Peace of mind -EXACTLY!!!!

If it wasn't for having a missus I would've maxed out the credit card over Christmas on headphones (kept looking at he560, x2, Audeze lcd). And geez that wa5 looks like a beast - there's a reason I'm not seeking to give it a listen. And the moon 430 amp/dac sounds intriguing.......... You get my drift

Luckily I picked up some we421a tubes over Christmas that are easy to get into the house under the cover of night. 

After watching escape from Alcatraz maybe I could make two big holes in the wall and cover them up with a framed photo and that's where I could keep the wa5 until everyone's asleep.


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> u2u2 said:
> 
> 
> > It can be a dangerous thing. I walked into one on Saturday and walked out with a Woo WA22. It is a recent build with the smooth volume control and phase splitter. I have been trying it out with RCA interconnects to a Woo WDS-1 DAC. I will be adding balanced interconnects tonight. After reading the mind numbing WA22 threads I still don't know if I should get balanced cables for my HD800 headphones but I suspect not.
> ...


 
 What i understand is what i read in those post above to run balance all you need is balanced interconnects and a balanced dac as for the different jack xlr connections up front 


joseph69 said:


> u2u2 said:
> 
> 
> > It can be a dangerous thing. I walked into one on Saturday and walked out with a Woo WA22. It is a recent build with the smooth volume control and phase splitter. I have been trying it out with RCA interconnects to a Woo WDS-1 DAC. I will be adding balanced interconnects tonight. After reading the mind numbing WA22 threads I still don't know if I should get balanced cables for my HD800 headphones but I suspect not.
> ...


 
 What i understand is to run balanced you need balanced interconnect cables and a balanced DAC it seems that whether you use the jack or the XLR connection what you hear is still balanced some disputed that post above personnally i dont know enough on the subject Woo i would think knows and could chime in .


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> What i understand is what i read in those post above to run balance all you need is balanced interconnects and a balanced dac as for the different jack xlr connections up front
> What i understand is to run balanced you need balanced interconnect cables and a balanced DAC it seems that whether you use the jack or the XLR connection what you hear is still balanced some disputed that post above personnally i dont know enough on the subject Woo i would think knows and could chime in .


 
 I was under the impression that the HP's need to be balanced as well as the DAC/amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> I was under the impression that the HP's need to be balanced as well as the DAC/amp.


 
  
 Nope. IMHO this rarely makes any difference to the SQ you get. Only exception I have experienced is using the Auralic Taurus Mk2 and HD800. The balanced output sounds better for the simple reason that this amp throws more power in balanced mode into the 300 Ohm impedance HD800, and this headphone likes it.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Nope. IMHO this rarely makes any difference to the SQ you get. Only exception I have experienced is using the Auralic Taurus Mk2 and HD800. The balanced output sounds better for the simple reason that this amp throws more power in balanced mode into the 300 Ohm impedance HD800, and this headphone likes it.


 
 I was waiting for you to chime in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I did forget to mention that I know some amps give more voltage output to the HP's in balanced mode.


----------



## u2u2

tonynewman said:


> Nope. IMHO this rarely makes any difference to the SQ you get. Only exception I have experienced is using the Auralic Taurus Mk2 and HD800. The balanced output sounds better for the simple reason that this amp throws more power in balanced mode into the 300 Ohm impedance HD800, and this headphone likes it.


 
 I think I will drop Woo Audio a line but I think you have probably provided the key. The WA22 is a nice step up from my WA6. I can run the output of my DAC much lower and take advantage of the amps power. Balanced input, SE out. I claim no proper understanding of these matters but it sounds superior. Only drawback is, every time I upgrade equipment, I seem to find more flaws in the recordings I have.
  
 Thank you all for your thoughts.


----------



## Redcarmoose

thecrow said:


> Be careful what you wish for.
> 
> Peace of mind -EXACTLY!!!!
> 
> ...




I learned that it was easy to ask for forgiveness from my wife but hard to ask for permission. After ordering the W5LE I told her in tears that there was just somethings I had to do before I die. Worked smoothly and fast. Still it was some of my own money from selling a car. After marriage I soon realized her money was her money and my money was her money.


----------



## TonyNewman

redcarmoose said:


> ... After marriage I soon realized her money was her money and my money was her money.


 
  
 If I had a dollar for every married guy I have that one from...


----------



## thecrow

redcarmoose said:


> I learned that it was easy to ask for forgiveness from my wife but hard to ask for permission. After ordering the W5LE I told her *in tears* that there was just somethings I had to do before I die. Worked smoothly and fast. Still it was some of my own money from selling a car. After marriage I soon realized her money was her money and my money was her money.



You, We are pathetic!

I don't have enough credits in the bank with her for the wa5

Or cash.


----------



## musicman59

u2u2 said:


> I think I will drop Woo Audio a line but I think you have probably provided the key. The WA22 is a nice step up from my WA6. I can run the output of my DAC much lower and take advantage of the amps power. Balanced input, SE out. I claim no proper understanding of these matters but it sounds superior. Only drawback is, every time I upgrade equipment, I seem to find more flaws in the recordings I have.
> 
> Thank you all for your thoughts.


 
 On connections between sources and amplifiers the balanced interconnect has 3 internal wires, a positive, a negative (same signal of the positive but with an inverted phase) and a ground. Yes, these are more normally used in professional environments since they allow longer runs without signal loss and reject noise better. I personally have found that my speaker systems also benefit from it due to the better noise reduction and a 3db increase in signal strength having 2 active leads in the cable.
  
 The implementation of a balanced output in headphones amps is different. It only has 2 internal wires, a positive and a negative (same signal of the positive with an inverted phase) so yes, the voice coil of the headphones is receiving double the signal power and is controlled in a push-pull way by the amplifier which in theory provides better control.
  
 If the headphone amplifier has a phase splitter internally you can still feed a single ended signal and get a balanced output to the headphones. The phase splitter will take the positive signal from the single ended input and inverse the phase creating the negative signal for the balance output.
  
 IMO all dynamic headphones benefit from a balanced signal from the control stand point but the benefit is more clear on headphones more difficult to drive and specially in high impedance heapdhones.
  
 Since my speaker systems are balanced and fully differential with longer runs from the preamp to the monoblocks I switch to balanced interconnects years ago and never looked back due to an audible benefit. On the other hand I have tried balanced and single ended headphones amplifiers and the only real difference I have noticed have been in the HD600, HD650 and HD800. Currenlty my tubes and SS amplifiers are single ended output and very happy with them.
  
 Just my 2 cents...


----------



## musicman59

redcarmoose said:


> I learned that it was easy to ask for forgiveness from my wife but hard to ask for permission. After ordering the W5LE I told her in tears that there was just somethings I had to do before I die. Worked smoothly and fast. Still it was some of my own money from selling a car. After marriage I soon realized her money was her money and my money was her money.


 
  
  


tonynewman said:


> If I had a dollar for every married guy I have that one from...


 
  
 You guys keep making me realize how fortunate I am with a wife that appreciates that I have a hobby and I passion and let me spend time and money on it!


----------



## Redcarmoose

musicman59 said:


> You guys keep making me realize how fortunate I am with a wife that appreciates that I have a hobby and I passion and let me spend time and money on it!






I think it has a lot to do with the Wife's perception of where the family is in relation to the whole. Some guys who make a ton of money just don't even care what their Wife's think. They do whatever they want. It's basicly a statement like "I give you enough, leave me alone!"

I have seen such phenomena, though never have been able to pull it off?


----------



## u2u2

musicman59 said:


> On connections between sources and amplifiers the balanced interconnect has 3 internal wires, a positive, a negative (same signal of the positive but with an inverted phase) and a ground. Yes, these are more normally used in professional environments since they allow longer runs without signal loss and reject noise better. I personally have found that my speaker systems also benefit from it due to the better noise reduction and a 3db increase in signal strength having 2 active leads in the cable.
> 
> The implementation of a balanced output in headphones amps is different. It only has 2 internal wires, a positive and a negative (same signal of the positive with an inverted phase) so yes, the voice coil of the headphones is receiving double the signal power and is controlled in a push-pull way by the amplifier which in theory provides better control.
> 
> ...


 

 Fantastic response that also gives insight into where Woo is heading with the updates to the WA22. Thank you for taking the time to bring such clarity to the subject.


----------



## musicman59

u2u2 said:


> Fantastic response that also gives insight into where Woo is heading with the updates to the WA22. Thank you for taking the time to bring such clarity to the subject.


 
 Thanks.
 When i was looking into buying a Woo I had my sights in the WA22 because my source and DAC were balanced but after talking to Jack and listening to both the WA22 and the WA5-LE I got convinced that even as SE the WA5-LE was a better amplifier and changed my mind buying the WA5-LE.


----------



## u2u2

musicman59 said:


> Thanks.
> When i was looking into buying a Woo I had my sights in the WA22 because my source and DAC were balanced but after talking to Jack and listening to both the WA22 and the WA5-LE I got convinced that even as SE the WA5-LE was a better amplifier and changed my mind buying the WA5-LE.


 

 I was seriously considering a WA5-LE last winter. Tried one out in Montreal and met Jack. By then my home currency was into a slide and he recommended the WA22. Tried both amps again at TAVES this fall and the WA5-LE remains a dream device. Our currency slid further, Woo improved the WA22, and by passing on the better amp, I kept the wife. Now you have me thinking...


----------



## musicman59

u2u2 said:


> I was seriously considering a WA5-LE last winter. Tried one out in Montreal and met Jack. By then my home currency was into a slide and he recommended the WA22. Tried both amps again at TAVES this fall and the WA5-LE remains a dream device. Our currency slid further, Woo improved the WA22, and by passing on the better amp, I kept the wife. Now you have me thinking...


 
 What are the improvements in the WA22?


----------



## u2u2

musicman59 said:


> What are the improvements in the WA22?


 

 In my view the addition of the phase splitter and the switch over to a smooth volume control. Others might prefer the original model or one of the in betweens...


----------



## Krutsch

redcarmoose said:


> ... I told her in tears that there was just somethings I had to do before I die.


 
  
 Ha ha ha... I'm stealing that one.
  
 I am getting married (again, round two) in April. I am trying to max-out my Head-Fi rig before the door closes on any new gadgets.


----------



## MIKELAP

krutsch said:


> redcarmoose said:
> 
> 
> > ... I told her in tears that there was just somethings I had to do before I die.
> ...


 
 Dont you know that :


----------



## thecrow

krutsch said:


> Ha ha ha... I'm stealing that one.
> 
> I am getting married (again, round two) in April. I am trying to max-out my Head-Fi rig before the door closes on any new gadgets.


----------



## thecrow




----------



## Redcarmoose

thecrow said:


>


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## magiccabbage

hahahahahaha


----------



## jhljhl

I'm trying valvo black gloss c3g/s in a maxxed wa5le v.1 with Glenn adapters.  My first impressions -  transparent with lots of air and fast precise bass response.  In my top 5 definitely.


----------



## Contrails

Finally picked up the WA22! I am still running on stock tubes and frankly was quite happy with the sound.  GE 6080, RCA 6sn7GTB, Chinese Rectifier who's name is not even worth mentioning but surprisingly sounds good.  I did do a trial run with the Marconi Rectifier and Brown base GZ34, and that was a step up in every direction.  Sadly, I put the Brown base GZ34 back in the box.  
  
 Here's a pic of the tube glow and one with Mr. X


----------



## Badas

^

Congrats. Exciting times. I know how much you have been looking foward to it. Great pics also.


----------



## Badas

^

Come and grab a Brimar rectifier and some other tubes if ya want. I'm on holiday so I'm home all day. So just call in. I won't be checking this site. Decided to watch some films.


----------



## Contrails

> Come and grab a Brimar rectifier and some other tubes if ya want. I'm on holiday so I'm home all day. So just call in. I won't be checking this site. Decided to watch some films


 
  
 Cheers mate, will do for sure.  I am planning on running the Chinese Rectifier out of hours first. Might be a while but will pop in a week or two. Good day to be watching films, weather has been up and down.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Congrats. Exciting times. I know how much you have been looking foward to it. Great pics also.


I've read (here) about the "natural progression" of wa2 > wa22 > wa5. 

I gather it's hard to fight if subscribed to this thread 

The only thing helping is the increase in pricing between models and the need to buy different tubes


----------



## MIKELAP

Anybody try a Mullard GZ34 f31 double O getter rectifier very nice sounding tube any impressions


----------



## Contrails

> I've read (here) about the "natural progression" of wa2 > wa22 > wa5


 
  
 Haha, I am hoping the progression will stop at WA22!
  
 But mine went from O2 to LF339 then to V200 to WA22.  I will probably make diagonal progression towards the Apex teton (not for a decade) especially considering it uses the same tubes as the WA22.


----------



## 2359glenn

jhljhl said:


> I'm trying valvo black gloss c3g/s in a maxxed wa5le v.1 with Glenn adapters.  My first impressions -  transparent with lots of air and fast precise bass response.  In my top 5 definitely.


 

 C3g should sound better then any 6SN7 maybe a little less gain though.


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> C3g should sound better then any 6SN7 maybe a little less gain though.


 
 Would the C3g work in the WA6 with the 6SN7 adapter?
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

joseph69 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > C3g should sound better then any 6SN7 maybe a little less gain though.
> ...


 
 I asked Woo if there's a adapter they could make that could  use a C3G Loctal they said no for the WA2,WA6,and WA22 i also asked Glenn ?


----------



## joseph69

mikelap said:


> I asked Woo if there's a adapter they could make that could  use a C3G Loctal they said no for the WA2,WA6,and WA22 i also asked Glenn ?


 
 Thank you Mike, I appreciate your reply.
 I figured they could be used because on the Woo Audio Tube Chart it shows 6CY7/6CG7 could be used with the WA6 so I thought they might be in the same family as the 63g.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

joseph69 said:


> Would the C3g work in the WA6 with the 6SN7 adapter?
> Thanks


 
  
   C3g is a single triode (pentode strapped as triode) where 6SN7/6CY7/6CG7 are dual-triodes (I believe Woo uses one for      input and one for output stage). 
  
   I'm kinda curious how Glenn hooks 'em/C3g up to use in the WA5.


----------



## joseph69

sko0bydoo said:


> C3g is a single triode where 6SN7/6CY7/6CG7 are dual-triode.  I believe Woo uses them in input and output stages.
> 
> I'm kinda curious how Glenn hooks 'em/C3g up to be used in the WA5.


 
 Thanks for the information.


----------



## Badas

Hey guys,

Just passing on a discovery that Tony and I discovered about Woo products (WA5 and WA22 tested). 

We get a sound quality improvement if you can lower the volume coming in from the inputs (DAC source). It seems the Woo products are sensitive to the volume/gain from the DAC. 

On Tony's WA5 we lowered the output volume from the Auralic Vega then raised the volume on the WA5. The result was a cleaner treble. It gets harsh when the volume is at the normal range on the Vega.

On my WA22 I experimented with it as well. On my Arcam DAC it also has a output volume. By lowering the volume by at least a third, then just using more volume on the WA22 the sound is a lot, lot cleaner. Sounds like a better amp.

In a nutshell it seems the Woo inputs don't like certain gains from certain DAC's. If the gain is too high the treble gets harsh and distorts. Lower the gain and use the amp volume and everything is very clean.


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just passing on a discovery that Tony and I discovered about Woo products (WA5 and WA22 tested).
> 
> ...


 
 I have a Vega and a WA5.  I usually run the Vega at 85 and the WA5 is barely breathing.  However that is with LCD-X or ETHER,  those phones no being that hard to drive.  What value on the Vega did you find best and with what cans?


----------



## a1uc

That's strange since most DAC's sound better with the volume ladder higher or fixed , I got 2 DAC's and a WA22 and I never had an issue


----------



## a1uc

Used my WA22 with a Sony Hap DAC and the Totaldac Mono/ D1 Dual


----------



## Badas

pippen99 said:


> I have a Vega and a WA5.  I usually run the Vega at 85 and the WA5 is barely breathing.  However that is with LCD-X or ETHER,  those phones no being that hard to drive.  What value on the Vega did you find best and with what cans?




We found the Vega sounded best at 60-65. Lowering further provided no benifit. It's all about the voltage. The Vega pumps out a lot more voltage than most. Can't remember the exact numbers 4 volts instead of the standard 2.5. So lowering about 1/3 seems to work.



a1uc said:


> That's strange since most DAC's sound better with the volume ladder higher or fixed , I got 2 DAC's and a WA22 and I never had an issue




Yeah. We scratched our heads when we discovered it. Vega / WA5 combo was obvious. 

However with experimentation I have noticed on he WA22 also. As written above it is about voltage. Some DACs might be providing the right voltage. Others might be that bit too much. Woo products seem to go harsh in the treble if the inputs have more than 2.5 volts.
I don't know what voltage my Arcam DAC pumps out. I just lowered the volume by a third. Raised the volume on the WA22 and I haven't heard it so clean before. Gave it to my wife also. She said it has never sounded so clear.


----------



## TonyNewman

Vega pumps out 4.2V RMS. My understanding is that around 2.0 to 2.5V RMS is 'typical'. The Vega output is "hot" in this respect.
  
 There is information out on the web demonstrating that the distortion introduced in the Vega by using the digital volume control down to around 60% is negligible. Beyond that might be a problem. I typically ran the Vega @ 60 to 70 with the WA5 - that worked fine.


----------



## Stereolab42

tonynewman said:


> Vega pumps out 4.2V RMS. My understanding is that around 2.0 to 2.5V RMS is 'typical'. The Vega output is "hot" in this respect.
> 
> There is information out on the web demonstrating that the distortion introduced in the Vega by using the digital volume control down to around 60% is negligible. Beyond that might be a problem. I typically ran the Vega @ 60 to 70 with the WA5 - that worked fine.


 
  
 Yeah, 4+ volts is hot as hell for RCA inputs... jesus.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Yeah, 4+ volts is hot as hell for RCA inputs... jesus.




It makes a big difference. 

I don't know what voltage my Arcam pumps out. Also has a volume / gain control however it sounds better turned down. I'm wondering if DAC's with a volume / gain control all make it hotter than the RCA spec???

Problem seems to only happen on the Woo. None of my Solid State gear for HP's or speakers care. They sound the same reguardless of the volume / gan from the DAC.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> It makes a big difference.
> 
> I don't know what voltage my Arcam pumps out. Also has a volume / gain control however it sounds better turned down. I'm wondering if DAC's with a volume / gain control all make it hotter than the RCA spec???
> 
> Problem seems to only happen on the Woo. None of my Solid State gear for HP's or speakers care. They sound the same reguardless of the volume / gan from the DAC.


 
  
 Glenn amp didn't care either. Taurus and 430HA also fine with it.


----------



## Badas

Lowering the DAC volume gives me the added benifit that the steps on my WA22 are a lot finer as well.

Win / Win.

My WA22 has never sounded so good. TAK rectifier and lower DAC volume has brang the magic.


----------



## Thenewguy007

badas said:


> Lowering the DAC volume gives me the added benifit that the steps on my WA22 are a lot finer as well.
> 
> Win / Win.
> 
> My WA22 has never sounded so good. TAK rectifier and lower DAC volume has brang the magic.


 
  
 So if I just lower the volume bar on my foobar & crank up the volume knob on my woo amp, it will sound better?


----------



## Badas

thenewguy007 said:


> So if I just lower the volume bar on my foobar & crank up the volume knob on my woo amp, it will sound better?




It could do. Worth a try. The Woo products don't seem to like a hot voltage in the RCA inputs.

I have lowered my volume about a third and used more amp volume. Treble has definitely tamed. Treble is what I notice.


----------



## 3083joe

TA-274B out for delivery!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> TA-274B out for delivery!




It is a very, very nice tube. I can't fault it. It does everything perfectly. 

Mine has 300-400 hours on it. I have heard that it is a roller coaster ride burning it in. So don't form a decision in the first few hours.

As this tube is a 10,000 hour tube I think I will make this my tube to use from now on. 1000 hours a year means 10 years worth. US$1000 divided by 10 years make it well worth it.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> It is a very, very nice tube. I can't fault it. It does everything perfectly.
> 
> Mine has 300-400 hours on it. I have heard that it is a roller coaster ride burning it in. So don't form a decision in the first few hours.
> 
> As this tube is a 10,000 hour tube I think I will make this my tube to use from now on. 1000 hours a year means 10 years worth. US$1000 divided by 10 years make it well worth it.


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> TA-274B out for delivery!


 
  
 Looking forward to your comparison to the Western Electric etc.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> It is a very, very nice tube. I can't fault it. It does everything perfectly.
> 
> Mine has 300-400 hours on it. I have heard that it is a roller coaster ride burning it in. So don't form a decision in the first few hours.
> 
> As this tube is a 10,000 hour tube I think I will make this my tube to use from now on. 1000 hours a year means 10 years worth. US$1000 divided by 10 years make it well worth it.



Thanks and I agree. 
If I get at least 1 hr a day I think after 2 weeks I should have a good comparison


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Looking forward to your comparison to the Western Electric etc.



After a few weeks I'll let you know. 
I can say it sounds good out the box but I assume it will only get better.


----------



## jhljhl

2359glenn said:


> C3g should sound better then any 6SN7 maybe a little less gain though.


 

 There is a little less gain so a little increase on volume was necessary.  I noticed bass is more textured and focused on hd800.  Same I think with the lcd3f but addition of treble extension.  Unfortunately wa5le I don't think has as much power to begin with as necessary so feel like I need to increase volume a bit more to get full range with HEK (it is just enough power with tsrp 6f8g).  I bet you got it sounding optimal through your amp design though.
 Decware Taboo has more power at 1700mw.


----------



## Thenewguy007

jhljhl said:


> Looking forward to your comparison to the Western Electric etc.


 
  
 Like to hear that comparison too


----------



## Badas

Interesting stuff:
  
 http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/05/return-vacuum-tube


----------



## Sko0byDoo

badas said:


> Interesting stuff:
> 
> http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/05/return-vacuum-tube


 
  Very cool, thanks for sharing...no mention of the thermionic heat requirement, which is a huge inefficiency for tubes compare to transistors.  Read somewhere  that Mig-29s are still using tubes, for resistance to EMPs?


----------



## reeltime

Home Sweet Woo.  My new WA5LE arrived today.  Giving the HE1000s a workout with the Chord Hugo TT and tasty DSD files.


----------



## Redcarmoose

reeltime said:


> Home Sweet Woo.  My new WA5LE arrived today.  Giving the HE1000s a workout with the Chord Hugo TT and tasty DSD files.



Enjoy!

Congratulations, those are great memories for me. On my way back from the FedX I stopped by work and showed it to my work buddies. Lol

Like a new child in the house!


----------



## reeltime

redcarmoose said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> Congratulations, those are great memories for me. On my way back from the FedX I stopped by work and showed it to my work buddies. Lol
> 
> Like a new child in the house!


 

 Thanks.  This setup is sick.  I got the parts upgrade option-- the amp is dead quiet and I'm getting deeper, more defined bass than I've ever heard on the HE1000, which already was tremendous in the bass department.  This is Summit-Fi stuff here.


----------



## Redcarmoose

reeltime said:


> Thanks.  This setup is sick.  I got the parts upgrade option-- the amp is dead quiet and I'm getting deeper, more defined bass than I've ever heard on the HE1000, which already was tremendous in the bass department.  This is Summit-Fi stuff here.


 
 Amazing, as I have had a tube amp of some sort starting at 13 years old in 1975? Never heard a silent one, close to, but not dead quiet?


----------



## reeltime

redcarmoose said:


> Amazing, as I have had a tube amp of some sort starting at 13 years old in 1975? Never heard a silent one, close to, but not dead quiet?


 

 I'm cranking it up-- no hum at all until I get to 85% full power in the high power setting (it's very feint even then)-- but the amp is unlistenable at that volume.  If a source were playing, I'd pop my eardrums.  I can hear room hum from the amps on the recordings, but nothing from the amp itself.  It's crazy.


----------



## Redcarmoose

reeltime said:


> I'm cranking it up-- no hum at all until I get to 85% full power in the high power setting (it's very feint even then)-- but the amp is unlistenable at that volume.  If a source were playing, I'd pop my eardrums.  I can hear room hum from the amps on the recordings, but nothing from the amp itself.  It's crazy.





Cool, enjoy your cross demential sonic holography device. Don't get scared when you feel tables and chairs mysteriously shake. "it's all in your mind"


----------



## 3083joe

Some listening time.


----------



## Clayton SF

King Crimson Sunday.


----------



## Krutsch

clayton sf said:


> King Crimson Sunday.


 
  
 What happened to the Marantz SA-8005?


----------



## Clayton SF

krutsch said:


> What happened to the Marantz SA-8005?


 

 Not to worry; rest assured. The Marantz SA-8005 is still in the house along side the adjacent wall, next to the Leben CS600 resting—but not for long.


----------



## Krutsch

clayton sf said:


> Not to worry; rest assured. The Marantz SA-8005 is still in the house along side the adjacent wall, next to the Leben CS600 resting—but not for long.


 
  
 Wow... very elegant room. I'm jealous. My home office is slowly being taken over by head-fi and about once a day, my fiancé asks me if I'd like help cleaning up / organizing things. It's all orderly, but there is a lot of gear, cables, hard drives, shelves of media, headphones on stands, et al. I wish I had a larger space dedicated to listening.


----------



## Clayton SF

krutsch said:


> Wow... very elegant room. I'm jealous. My home office is slowly being taken over by head-fi and about once a day, my fiancé asks me if I'd like help cleaning up / organizing things. It's all orderly, but there is a lot of gear, cables, hard drives, shelves of media, headphones on stands, et al. I wish I had a larger space dedicated to listening.


 
  
 Thanks. Elegant in some ways, but it could be straightened up a bit. Like getting stuff off the floor. There are amps (under cover) below that window that need to be put away.
  
 BTW, I've had never heard of Minnetonka, Minnesota—so I had to look it up. Are your amps keeping you warm up there?


----------



## Krutsch

clayton sf said:


> ...
> 
> BTW, I've had never heard of Minnetonka, Minnesota—so I had to look it up. Are your amps keeping you warm up there?


 
  
 Well, we've had a very mild fall and winter - still cold, but nothing like the snow they are having out east. The temp is back to just below freezing, so I've moved back to a light Pea coat. Here's my view from the living room's 2-channel system; looks grim with the overcast:


----------



## longbowbbs

clayton sf said:


> krutsch said:
> 
> 
> > Wow... very elegant room. I'm jealous. My home office is slowly being taken over by head-fi and about once a day, my fiancé asks me if I'd like help cleaning up / organizing things. It's all orderly, but there is a lot of gear, cables, hard drives, shelves of media, headphones on stands, et al. I wish I had a larger space dedicated to listening.
> ...


 
 Minnetonka makes him Southern by my standards!


----------



## Soriordan

Has anyone used the Sophia Electric Premium 6SN7(GTA equivalent) Tubes with a WA22? I was curious to hear comments about them since they are newer production tubes


----------



## 3083joe

soriordan said:


> Has anyone used the Sophia Electric Premium 6SN7(GTA equivalent) Tubes with a WA22? I was curious to hear comments about them since they are newer production tubes



I used them in my wa6 before I sold it. Did nothing for me.


----------



## 3083joe

Just throwing this out there but the TA-274B is a beast. Only around 50 hr and I'd say there is very little difference in it and my WE274A. 
Once I get a good 100 hrs I'm going to be doing some closer comparison. Only I've noticed is it take a good 45-60 minutes warm up to really sound its best. Not really a bad thing but something good to know.
And at the price difference WE around $1200 and TA around $850.


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Just throwing this out there but the TA-274B is a beast. Only around 50 hr and I'd say there is very little difference in it and my WE274A.
> Once I get a good 100 hrs I'm going to be doing some closer comparison. *Only I've noticed is it take a good 45-60 minutes warm up to really sound its best. *Not really a bad thing but something good to know.
> And at the price difference WE around $1200 and TA around $850.


 
  
 I noticed this, some time ago... my listening experience really improves after an hour of warm-up time on the tubes.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Just throwing this out there but the TA-274B is a beast. Only around 50 hr and I'd say there is very little difference in it and my WE274A.
> Once I get a good 100 hrs I'm going to be doing some closer comparison. Only I've noticed is it take a good 45-60 minutes warm up to really sound its best. Not really a bad thing but something good to know.
> And at the price difference WE around $1200 and TA around $850.


 

 Thanks I might look into this esp TA300b.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Thanks I might look into this esp TA300b.



For sure, will do same when I get my Glenn 300b


----------



## IndieGradoFan

3083joe said:


> I used them in my wa6 before I sold it. Did nothing for me.


 

 I've used them on my WA22 and WA6. They are beautiful tubes but they sound a bit lifeless to me. I like them but they are easily beat by the Black Treasures or Psvane CV-181-TII. I'm using the latter in my WA6 now.


----------



## 3083joe

I'd stick with 6c8g/6f8g tubes on either amp.(near same price-and sound way better) 
Or Mullard ecc35s (lots more tho)


----------



## IndieGradoFan

3083joe said:


> I'd stick with 6c8g/6f8g tubes on either amp.(near same price-and sound way better)
> Or Mullard ecc35s (lots more tho)


 

 My Tung-Sol BGRP and BG square plate 6F8Gs are too quiet in the WA6. They are more than half the volume -- with 6SN7s, I typically have the volume at about 11:00. With the 6F8Gs, I can max the dial completely and still not be at the same volume as 11:00 with the 6SN7s.


----------



## 3083joe

Wow. Interesting. Set on high output?
Also I think 6c8g is louder but I could be wrong


----------



## 3083joe

I honesty can't get past the Mullard ecc35s best best best sound for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Wow. Interesting. Set on high output?
> Also I think 6c8g is louder but I could be wrong


 
  
 The 6C8G has around 20 to 30% more gain than the 6SN7. I am running 6C8G TS RP in my WA6 now and the gain is not an issue (driving HD600s).


----------



## 3083joe

Thought that was the case. I'm running them in my wa22 right now just to hear how they sound and for the price they cannot be beat!


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I decided to give my TSBG 6F8G a try in the WA6 again. I put the Brimar rectifier in too. Same issue as before -- at completely max volume, I'm still a tad shy of where I was at 11:00 when using 6SN7s. They sound great though. Source is a Gungnir Multibit and headphones are Fostex TH900. Anyone have a pair of TS or NU 6C8Gs they'll sell me?


----------



## 3083joe

I might let me check


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Just throwing this out there but the TA-274B is a beast. Only around 50 hr and I'd say there is very little difference in it and my WE274A.
> Once I get a good 100 hrs I'm going to be doing some closer comparison. Only I've noticed is it take a good 45-60 minutes warm up to really sound its best. Not really a bad thing but something good to know.
> And at the price difference WE around $1200 and TA around $850.




I'm now at that point that I can't put anything but the TAK 274B into my amp. I definitely need to hunt down a spare now. However I haven't tried WE274A. 

I have over a long while tried to listen to Genisis using HP's. SS amp was an embarrassment. Very harsh. Tube amp was a little better. Put in the TAK and it is not only tolerable it is nice. I think it is that clean bass complimenting a sweet treble. Sounds dynamic.


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> I decided to give my TSBG 6F8G a try in the WA6 again. I put the Brimar rectifier in too. Same issue as before -- at completely max volume, I'm still a tad shy of where I was at 11:00 when using 6SN7s. They sound great though. Source is a Gungnir Multibit and headphones are Fostex TH900. Anyone have a pair of TS or NU 6C8Gs they'll sell me?




I can't work out what you are saying. Sorry a bit slow today. R U saying the 6F8G and 6SN7 is at max volume? 6C8G 6SL7 has more gain. On my WA22 my TSRP 6C's are at 25% power on the WA22. The 6F gets to about 70-80% to achieve the same volume.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I'm now at that point that I can't put anything but the TAK 274B into my amp...


 
  
 Told they were good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Fantastic tube in every way except the price.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> I can't work out what you are saying. Sorry a bit slow today. R U saying the 6F8G and 6SN7 is at max volume? 6C8G 6SL7 has more gain. On my WA22 my TSRP 6C's are at 25% power on the WA22. The 6F gets to about 70-80% to achieve the same volume.


 

 In the WA6, my preferred volume level is 11:00 on the dial with any of my 6SN7s -- e.g. Sophia, CV-181-TII. When I put in the TS 6F8G/VT99, I have to max out the volume dial to get the same approximate level.
  
 The same tubes don't have this issue in my WA22 (though the WA22 has a separate power section). With 6F8Gs (and 6SN7s), my WA22 is usually at about 9:00 on the volume dial.
  
 Also, this behavior is consistent with multiple pairs of 6F8Gs.
  
 BTW, switched to my pair of Grado RS1i and same volume issue -- 6F8Gs means I have to max the volume dial.


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> In the WA6, mwy preferred volume level is 11:00 on the dial with any of my 6SN7s -- e.g. Sophia, CV-181-TII. When I put in the TS 6F8G/VT99, I have to max out the volume dial to get the same approximate level.
> 
> The same tubes don't have this issue in my WA22 (though the WA22 has a separate power section). With 6F8Gs (and 6SN7s), my WA22 is usually at about 9:00 on the volume dial.
> 
> ...




Wired issue. 6F and 6SN is supose to have the same gain. Have you tried 6C or 6SL?


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Yeah, I was disappointed as that's what I expected. I haven't tried a C3 yet, though I'd like to -- just need to find a pair. Maybe I should email Woo to see if there's some other explanation -- something different in the wiring of the adapter perhaps?


----------



## fhuang

anybody tried a esoteric cd player with a woo before?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Wired issue. 6F and 6SN is supose to have the same gain. Have you tried 6C or 6SL?



6c is nice 
6SL = ecc35?


----------



## abvolt

I've owned several different 6SL7's and imo found them to be very plain sounding nothing special, as for the ECC35's I can't comment on there sq as I don't own a pair yet but soon I will. Right now I'm really enjoying a pair of mullard ECC31's Wow very nice indeed..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> I've owned several different 6SL7's and imo found them to be very plain sounding nothing special, as for the ECC35's I can't comment on there sq as I don't own a pair yet but soon I will. Right now I'm really enjoying a pair of mullard ECC31's Wow very nice indeed..



Yeah. The ecc31 is very nice and for the money well worth it. 
But I just can't use anything after the 35s best sound I can find. Shame they are still $500 a pair


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> I've owned several different 6SL7's and imo found them to be very plain sounding nothing special, as for the ECC35's I can't comment on there sq as I don't own a pair yet but soon I will. Right now I'm really enjoying a pair of mullard ECC31's Wow very nice indeed..


 

 I think highly of the tung sol 6su7 very smooth sounding.  I like the ecc35 quite a bit too.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I'm now at that point that I can't put anything but the TAK 274B into my amp. I definitely need to hunt down a spare now. However I haven't tried WE274A.
> 
> I have over a long while tried to listen to Genisis using HP's. SS amp was an embarrassment. Very harsh. Tube amp was a little better. Put in the TAK and it is not only tolerable it is nice. I think it is that clean bass complimenting a sweet treble. Sounds dynamic.



Yes tak is a beast loving it too. And I'm beginning to think it's better than a WE274


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> Yeah. The ecc31 is very nice and for the money well worth it.
> But I just can't use anything after the 35s best sound I can find. Shame they are still $500 a pair


 
 Glad to hear that I'll getting a pair of the 35's soon thanks dude..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Glad to hear that I'll getting a pair of the 35's soon thanks dude..



You will love them. And if not you can sell them to me.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I think highly of the tung sol 6su7 very smooth sounding.  I like the ecc35 quite a bit too.



Going to try the ts 6su7 I think.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Going to try the ts 6su7 I think.


 

 They don't sound similar to the ecc35- they have a very soft sound signature like soft focus lighting or something -highs can seem rolled off too depends but I think they are a nice contrast to the ecc35.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yes tak is a beast loving it too. And I'm beginning to think it's better than a WE274


 

 Wow.


----------



## TonyNewman

The folks at Takatsuki are obsessive (in a good way). Their goal is to build tubes that exceed the performance of the vintage WE300B and WE274B. I have never heard these vintage tubes (and probably never will) but I have had plenty of time with the Takatsukis - they are stunningly good tubes.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> The folks at Takatsuki are obsessive (in a good way). Their goal is to build tubes that exceed the performance of the vintage WE300B and WE274B. I have never heard these vintage tubes (and probably never will) but I have had plenty of time with the Takatsukis - they are stunningly good tubes.


 

 I'm hearing all the qualities of the TAK 274B now. Everything I have previously heard sounds better. I haven't come across music that sounds bad on it (it might be mastered bright but it doesn't sound harsh). Stuff that I couldn't previously listen to on HP's I can listen to on HP's now (bad recordings sound a lot better). It is also making me stop. I'm very guilty of listening to HP's and doing other stuff like surfing the net or reading a book. The music actually wakes me up and says stop and listen. Sometimes I can't multitask with it. It is just so damn good.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

An update on my 6F8G / WA6 gain issue. Tonight, I tried stacking adapters -- instead of using a single 6F8G > 6DE7, I used a 6F8G > 6SN7 and then a 6SN7 > 6DE7. Voila! Back to normal levels of gain.


----------



## joseph69

indiegradofan said:


> An update on my 6F8G / WA6 gain issue. Tonight, I tried stacking adapters -- instead of using a single 6F8G > 6DE7, I used a 6F8G > 6SN7 and then a 6SN7 > 6DE7. Voila! Back to normal levels of gain.


 
 Why/how would you get more gain with more adapters?


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> An update on my 6F8G / WA6 gain issue. Tonight, I tried stacking adapters -- instead of using a single 6F8G > 6DE7, *I used a 6F8G > 6SN7 and then a 6SN7 > 6DE7. Voila! Back to normal levels of gain.*


 

 That is what Tony uses in his WA6 I think. I don't think he came across your issue.


----------



## Montecristo

How would you say this amp matches up to other competitors?


----------



## Badas

montecristo said:


> How would you say this amp matches up to other competitors?


 

 Competitors? Such as?


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> That is what Tony uses in his WA6 I think. I don't think he came across your issue.


 
  
 Correct. With 6C8G tubes driving a HD600 I have no problem with gain at all.


----------



## joseph69

But how would stacking the adapters give more gain?


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> But how would stacking the adapters give more gain?



Sounds like there's an adapter issue. Stacking shouldn't increase gain


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I'm waiting to hear back from Woo, who will hopefully have an explanation or advice. I'm not sure if there's a resistor in the 6F8G > 6DE7 adapters but if so, maybe mine have the wrong value? I'll post what I find out though.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Sounds like there's an adapter issue. Stacking shouldn't increase gain


 
 Thank you Joe.
 I use Glenns 68FG>6DE7 adapters in my WA6 and couldn't even think of going full volume.


----------



## joseph69

indiegradofan said:


> I'm waiting to hear back from Woo, who will hopefully have an explanation or advice. I'm not sure if there's a resistor in the 6F8G > 6DE7 adapters but if so, maybe mine have the wrong value? I'll post what I find out though.


 
 Who's 6FG8>6DE7 adapters are you using?


----------



## IndieGradoFan

joseph69 said:


> Who's 6FG8>6DE7 adapters are you using?


 

 Woo's


----------



## 3083joe

I hear you. My ears would bleed! 
I used Glenn's also.


----------



## 3083joe

Never seen one on sell. 
http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/272113780979


----------



## reeltime

3083joe said:


> Never seen one on sell.
> http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/272113780979


 

 Grrrr.. I need two.


----------



## abvolt

reeltime said:


> Grrrr.. I need two.


 
 Too spendy you can find inexpensive tubes nearly as good for a fraction of the cost, an example would be the tube I'm currently listening to, it is about 15 times cheaper then the TK, is the TK  really 15 times better ?  Never.. some may need that perception though, enjoy the music.


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Too spendy you can find inexpensive tubes nearly as good for a fraction of the cost, an example would be the tube I'm currently listening to, it is about 15 times cheaper then the TK, is the TK  really 15 times better ?  Never.. some may need that perception though, enjoy the music.



Honesty haven't found anything as close to we274a than this tube. 
I've tried everything except metal base gz34


----------



## reeltime

3083joe said:


> Honesty haven't found anything as close to we274a than this tube.
> I've tried everything except metal base gz34


 
 That's what I have currently in my WA5LE.  Metal base GZ34s and Elrog 300Bs.


----------



## magiccabbage

reeltime said:


> That's what I have currently in my WA5LE.  Metal base GZ34s and Elrog 300Bs.


 
 And what's it like?? - im interested in both those tubes , what is the metal base like? Is it lean? Id say the elrogs are impressive. Love the look of those tubes.
  
  
 Also im very interested to hear your thoughts one the Hugo tt vs a maxed WA5? Which would you part with first? How black is the background on the TT compared to the WA5?
 Im thinking of getting a totl solid state amp soon. Was feeling like maybe im missing out because I've always had tube amps only.


----------



## 3083joe

Love this combo in my wa22


----------



## SonicTrance

3083joe said:


> Love this combo in my wa22


 
 Every time I see your GEC A1834's, I can't get over the fact that they seem to have a top mounted getter as well as the inverted pan getter in the bottom. I've never seen that before. Is there a getter up there?
  
 Sweet looking rig btw!


----------



## reeltime

magiccabbage said:


> And what's it like?? - im interested in both those tubes , what is the metal base like? Is it lean? Id say the elrogs are impressive. Love the look of those tubes.
> 
> 
> Also im very interested to hear your thoughts one the Hugo tt vs a maxed WA5? Which would you part with first? How black is the background on the TT compared to the WA5?
> Im thinking of getting a totl solid state amp soon. Was feeling like maybe im missing out because I've always had tube amps only.


 
  
 By all accounts, the Taks are the best on the market.  I really like the sound of the Elrog/GZ pairing.  Having not heard the Taks, I can't compare.  But my suspicion is that we're playing with that last 5%.  I don't expect revolutionary new dimensions to the WA5LE (I just got the new version a few weeks ago) with the Taks.  I expect an incremental improvement.
  
 The metal base GZ34 has always been my favorite rectifier.  I've had them in 3 different tube amps and no matter which rectifier I've tried, including the Sophias, EML, and 596s, I always have returned to the metal base GZ34.  There's more bass impact and depth with the stubby 34 than any other big bottle tubes i've auditioned, and they're crystal clear on passages that are quiet where the soundstage opens up wide.  
  
 I don't doubt that the Taks are the better tubes, I just don't expect them to be massively better, just a small tick.
  
 I've been very lucky with my Elrogs.  Lots of reports of failures.  These sound very good.
  
 It's difficult to say which I'd part with regarding the WA or Chord TT.  My answer would be which source do you prefer?  If you play mostly LPs, I'd want the WA5LE.  If you are mostly digital, the TT is definitely the way to go.  DSD files through the Chord TT is the best source setup I've ever heard for a digital path-- the WA5LE is a bit of overkill (though perfectly enjoyable).  
  
 I will get to those Taks someday.  But if going full Tak (300B and 274) is a $3000 dollar investment for a 5% improvement, it's difficult to justify.  The $2900 I spent on the TT made a much greater improvement to my sound setup.  
  
 Plus-- finding a perfect matching pair of metal base GZ34s was expensive enough.  Be careful with the matching pairs.  There's a set on eBay right now that are NOT a matching pair, though the seller is claiming they are.  Learn how to read the factory stamp (plenty of info if you Google a bit)  They're from different years and different batches.  The seller claims they test the same, but I doubt they sound identical.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Too spendy you can find inexpensive tubes nearly as good for a fraction of the cost, an example would be the tube I'm currently listening to, it is about 15 times cheaper then the TK, is the TK  really 15 times better ?  Never.. some may need that perception though, enjoy the music.


 
  
 I use to think that as well. However I don't know what tube you are using?
  
 I have done a lot of comparing to the Brimar 5Z4GY. One of my favorite tubes. I've heard many say this gets near the top for a fraction of the top tube prices. The Brimar gets very close to the TAK (Brimar is a superb tube). But those differences in the TAK small as they are make the experience just so much better. I don't 100% know what those differences are? All I can tell you is it is fuller and does things better to the bass (can't exactly put my finger on it). TAK is very slightly sweeter on the treble also (however this is real picky (I can hear slight harshness on the Brimar which isn't on the TAK. If I didn't have the TAK I wouldn't have picked it up)). I really can't find a fault with the TAK. It is not lacking in any area. Perfect. So for my listening enjoyment I've decided to go with it from now on.


3083joe said:


> Love this combo in my wa22


 
  
 Very nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  

  
 Here is mine with the TAK274B. Using TS RP Drivers. I have a nice pair of Mullard 6080 power tubes. I should put them in to keep it all exotic. However I can't get enough of the very boring standard GE6AS7GA tubes. I like their sound.


----------



## 3083joe

If you get a chance to listen to this, so dynamic.


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> By all accounts, the Taks are the best on the market.  I really like the sound of the Elrog/GZ pairing.  Having not heard the Taks, I can't compare.  But my suspicion is that we're playing with that last 5%.  I don't expect revolutionary new dimensions to the WA5LE (I just got the new version a few weeks ago) with the Taks.  I expect an incremental improvement.
> 
> The metal base GZ34 has always been my favorite rectifier.  I've had them in 3 different tube amps and no matter which rectifier I've tried, including the Sophias, EML, and 596s, I always have returned to the metal base GZ34.  There's more bass impact and depth with the stubby 34 than any other big bottle tubes i've auditioned, and they're crystal clear on passages that are quiet where the soundstage opens up wide.
> 
> ...


 

 How are the elrogs compared to others you've tried?
  
 I've not tried the taks.  But my favorite rectifiers have been 274/metal gz34/53ku/u52/422a.  The metal gz34 are really transparent and have holographic but warm midrange.
  
 Used some fivre 6sn7 - gives nice snap to wake up the sometimes laid back HEK.


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> How are the elrogs compared to others you've tried?
> 
> I've not tried the taks.  But my favorite rectifiers have been 274/metal gz34/53ku/u52/422a.  The metal gz34 are really transparent and have holographic but warm midrange.
> 
> Used some fivre 6sn7 - gives nice snap to wake up the sometimes laid back HEK.


 

 I've only had the Tung Sol (which came with the amp) (lacked sparkle);  the EML 300B (very nice tube); and the Elrog 300B (incremental improvement over the EML-- better bass, highs less sharp, better imaging-- but only minor upgrade over the EML, not a massive upgrade)
  
 I sold my EML tubes.  They are nice tubes.  Very good tubes, in fact.  The Elrogs are just a bit better, so I kept them.
  
 I can't get a handle on the driver tubes.  The only drivers I didn't like were the PSVane T2 CV-181.  Very harsh high end.  Crunchy.  Any of the 6SN7s sound good to my ears.  Maybe I just don't know what to listen for with the drivers.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> I've only had the Tung Sol (which came with the amp) (lacked sparkle);  the EML 300B (very nice tube); and the Elrog 300B (incremental improvement over the EML-- better bass, highs less sharp, better imaging-- but only minor upgrade over the EML, not a massive upgrade)
> 
> I sold my EML tubes.  They are nice tubes.  Very good tubes, in fact.  The Elrogs are just a bit better, so I kept them.
> 
> I can't get a handle on the driver tubes.  The only drivers I didn't like were the PSVane T2 CV-181.  Very harsh high end.  Crunchy.  Any of the 6SN7s sound good to my ears.  Maybe I just don't know what to listen for with the drivers.




I tried all sorts of 6SN7's. As soon as I heard my first 6F8G I knew 6SN7 was finished. I wouldn't waste too much time and effort on 6SN7.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I tried all sorts of 6SN7's. As soon as I heard my first 6F8G I knew 6SN7 was finished. I wouldn't waste too much time and effort on 6SN7.



Agreed.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Agreed.


 

 I haven't tried as many 6sn7 equivalent to compare but wouldn't they sound the same as 6f8g?  I've tried rca (romantic rounded sound); raytheon (clear more air and transparent); tsrp (more dynamic and better imaging and extension than rca) but have not tried the 6sn7 equivalent- do they sound the same?


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> I haven't tried as many 6sn7 equivalent to compare but wouldn't they sound the same as 6f8g?  I've tried rca (romantic rounded sound); raytheon (clear more air and transparent); tsrp (more dynamic and better imaging and extension than rca) but have not tried the 6sn7 equivalent- do they sound the same?




A lot sound completely different. Take the RCA you listed. I have the 6SN7 grey glass and I agree with you it sounds romantic. Then I have a set in 6F8g with the same plate structure. Completely different. Treble extends and the sound if fuller. It's strange but they are worlds apart.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> A lot sound completely different. Take the RCA you listed. I have the 6SN7 grey glass and I agree with you it sounds romantic. Then I have a set in 6F8g with the same plate structure. Completely different. Treble extends and the sound if fuller. It's strange but they are worlds apart.


 
  
 Where did you get an adapter?  Looks like there's a cathode wire?
  
 I'll try a pair.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> Where did you get an adapter?  Looks like there's a cathode wire?
> 
> I'll try a pair.




The adapters are everywhere. You can get them from eBay and Woo. I also got two pairs from Glenn. They are the best.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> A lot sound completely different. Take the RCA you listed. I have the 6SN7 grey glass and I agree with you it sounds romantic. Then I have a set in 6F8g with the same plate structure. Completely different. Treble extends and the sound if fuller. It's strange but they are worlds apart.



Nothing the same. Much better than any


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> The adapters are everywhere. You can get them from eBay and Woo. I also got two pairs from Glenn. They are the best.


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> Nothing the same. Much better than any


 

 I thought the tsrp 6f8g sounded the same as 6sn7?  Is that the exception then? Or do they sound different?


----------



## 3083joe

reeltime said:


> Where did you get an adapter?  Looks like there's a cathode wire?
> 
> I'll try a pair.



Glen's are best but I used these http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/281854965335 
Worked fine.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I thought the tsrp 6f8g sounded the same as 6sn7?  Is that the exception then? Or do they sound different?



Similar I think but 6f8/6c8 sound a bit more snappy with a wider sound stage 
Prefer the 6c8 for extra gain tho


----------



## 3083joe

anyone know if the 5694 (8 pin) to 6sn7 (9 pin) work on with 6sc7s?


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Similar I think but 6f8/6c8 sound a bit more snappy with a wider sound stage
> Prefer the 6c8 for extra gain tho




It seems like all the 6F8g / 6C8g's have that wider holographic soundstage. It is what grabbed me the most.


----------



## Rossliew

A





reeltime said:


> That's what I have currently in my WA5LE.  Metal base GZ34s and Elrog 300Bs.




Any issues with the Elrogs using the Wa5?


----------



## reeltime

rossliew said:


> A
> Any issues with the Elrogs using the Wa5?


 
  
 Not for me.  Others have had failures, but it's my understanding the Elrogs have been redesigned a bit for reliability.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> It seems like all the 6F8g / 6C8g's have that wider holographic soundstage. It is what grabbed me the most.


 
  
  
 Ok- I think I see what you mean.


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> By all accounts, the Taks are the best on the market.  I really like the sound of the Elrog/GZ pairing.  Having not heard the Taks, I can't compare.  But my suspicion is that we're playing with that last 5%.  I don't expect revolutionary new dimensions to the WA5LE (I just got the new version a few weeks ago) with the Taks.  I expect an incremental improvement.
> 
> The metal base GZ34 has always been my favorite rectifier.  I've had them in 3 different tube amps and no matter which rectifier I've tried, including the Sophias, EML, and 596s, I always have returned to the metal base GZ34.  There's more bass impact and depth with the stubby 34 than any other big bottle tubes i've auditioned, and they're crystal clear on passages that are quiet where the soundstage opens up wide.
> 
> ...


 

 I can only compare to 274b/a WE- I think these adds a depth of layers to the sound- more expansive and dynamic however the metal gz34 seems a little more transparent in comparison.  In the WA22 I think the difference is a little more obvious than with 300b power tubes using amps like the WA5- though it is apparent there too.  Yeah, I think that's been my experience.


----------



## HedgeHog

3083joe said:


> Glen's are best but I used these http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/281854965335
> Worked fine.


 
 Hi,
  
 I'm curious why Glen's are the best?  This is a sincere question as I haven't seen his adapter.  What's the price?
  
 I've been using Woo Audio's and it seems pretty good.
  
 Cheers,
 -H


----------



## joseph69

hedgehog said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm curious why Glen's are the best?  This is a sincere question as I haven't seen his adapter.  What's the price?
> 
> ...


 
 With the 6F8G adapters and the 596 adapter, Glenn's fit much more securely on the top of the 6F8G's and on the two rods of the 596 making much better contact IMO/IME.


----------



## jhljhl

joseph69 said:


> With the 6F8G adapters and the 596 adapter, Glenn's fit much more securely on the top of the 6F8G's and on the two rods of the 596 making much better contact IMO/IME.


 

  
 Agreed.


----------



## joseph69

jhljhl said:


> Agreed.


----------



## Porteroso

I had a pair of ebay adapters for several months before getting Glenn's. Glenn's just look better, and could withstand more punishment I think. Not that any of us really plan on punishing our equipment, but things just happen. But the ebay adapters worked very well. And they save you a bit of cash too.
  
 Finally got the headphone jack in, Woo's customer support was very good, and linked me to a replacement that cost about 1 dollar. Cheapest repair ever, although the part does look like they are making a profit off of the dollar they charged me. At first, I tried to resolder using the solder on the wires, but something doesn't sound right. I don't think I had enough solder to really make a good connection once I moved it to where it needed to go, so I'm waiting on some cardas quad.
  
 Once I had it apart, it became quite obvious that whoever had it before me messed around a good bit, trying to do who knows what. Lots of scratching all around the screw holes. Makes me wonder what he replaced or did. I'll probably never know, mostly I cannot wait to get the amp going again. I do love reading about the takatsuki, but it would be really hard to justify putting a 900 dollar rectifier into an amp that isn't 900 even if you add in the Tung Sols. Then again, I'm not sure that I'll ever upgrade amps. Hard decision to make. The Brimar U52 I've got in is really nice too. Whether the tak is much better would be really interesting. I'm sure it is, but it can't be too much of an improvement.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> I had a pair of ebay adapters for several months before getting Glenn's. Glenn's just look better, and could withstand more punishment I think. Not that any of us really plan on punishing our equipment, but things just happen. But the ebay adapters worked very well. And they save you a bit of cash too.
> 
> Finally got the headphone jack in, Woo's customer support was very good, and linked me to a replacement that cost about 1 dollar. Cheapest repair ever, although the part does look like they are making a profit off of the dollar they charged me. At first, I tried to resolder using the solder on the wires, but something doesn't sound right. I don't think I had enough solder to really make a good connection once I moved it to where it needed to go, so I'm waiting on some cardas quad.
> 
> Once I had it apart, it became quite obvious that whoever had it before me messed around a good bit, trying to do who knows what. Lots of scratching all around the screw holes. Makes me wonder what he replaced or did. I'll probably never know, mostly I cannot wait to get the amp going again. I do love reading about the takatsuki, but it would be really hard to justify putting a 900 dollar rectifier into an amp that isn't 900 even if you add in the Tung Sols. Then again, I'm not sure that I'll ever upgrade amps. Hard decision to make. *The Brimar U52* I've got in is really nice too. Whether the tak is much better would be really interesting. I'm sure it is, but it can't be too much of an improvement.


 
 Do you mean Brimar 5Z4G rectifier tube, or is this correct, just a different Brimar rectifier tube?
 If so, how does it compare to the 5Z4G?
 Thanks!


----------



## Porteroso

It is not, though I have a few of the 5Z4G tubes as well. This is the second tube listed in dubstepgirl's rectifier thread. It is really, really good. I had the 5Z4G in for some time before getting a used U52 for about 150 bucks. At that price, I doubt it can be beat. And I start to wonder how much better a maxed WA5 would be than a maxed WA6. One of these days I'll make it to a meet and maybe get to see.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread#post_10053310


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> It is not, though I have a few of the 5Z4G tubes as well. This is the second tube listed in dubstepgirl's rectifier thread. It is really, really good. I had the 5Z4G in for some time before getting a used U52 for about 150 bucks. At that price, I doubt it can be beat. And I start to wonder how much better a maxed WA5 would be than a maxed WA6. One of these days I'll make it to a meet and maybe get to see.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread#post_10053310


 
 Thanks for the info, I've never heard of the Brimar U52.
 I often wonder myself about how much better a WA5/LE sounds compared to a WA6…maxed or not.
 I actually liked the WA6 more than the WA6-SE.
 If you ever get the opportunity to hear the 5/LE, please fill me in on your impressions.
 I have a feeling we're going to be in some trouble for wondering about this.


----------



## 3083joe

hedgehog said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm curious why Glen's are the best?  This is a sincere question as I haven't seen his adapter.  What's the price?
> 
> ...



Woos are great also. 
Just Glenn has an extra bit of quality. 
But they all work well. At least I've had no issues with any include ones from eBay.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Woos are great also.
> Just Glenn has an extra bit of quality.
> But they all work well. At least I've had no issues with any include ones from eBay.


 
 I found Woo's 596 adapter to be very shallow and lose fitting on the top pins, while Glenn's had much more depth and a firmer fit. I do like Woo's 6SN7>6DE7 adapters though, they are really nice.


----------



## longbowbbs

joseph69 said:


> 3083joe said:
> 
> 
> > Woos are great also.
> ...


 
 I have always found Glenn's adapters to be highly reliable. I have them for the 596's and for the RK-60's. Firm fit without being so tight I worry about breaking something.


----------



## Khragon

Glenn's adapters also reject noise better, especially the 6f8g adapters where Woo uses very thin wire compare to thicker more insulated one that Glenn uses.  Also on the aesthetic side, Glenn 6f8g adapter has the cable correctly oriented so you can have it arc up behind the tube instead of having to curve around like Woo.


----------



## whirlwind

khragon said:


> Glenn's adapters also reject noise better, especially the 6f8g adapters where Woo uses very thin wire compare to thicker more insulated one that Glenn uses.  Also on the aesthetic side, Glenn 6f8g adapter has the cable correctly oriented so you can have it arc up behind the tube instead of having to curve around like Woo.


 
 +1
  
 I have an amp made by Glenn, I swear the back round is dark as midnight with all the tubes I use....noise is a non factor with adapters and the amp in general.


----------



## jhljhl

I notice not many use 6922 to 6sn7 adapters on wa22 or wa5 etc?  I tried telefunken 6922 even/balanced sounding, neutral and transparent tube.


----------



## Audiogalore

Great choice very open sounding tube.


----------



## Audiogalore

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for the info, I've never heard of the Brimar U52.
> I often wonder myself about how much better a WA5/LE sounds compared to a WA6…maxed or not.
> I actually liked the WA6 more than the WA6-SE.
> If you ever get the opportunity to hear the 5/LE, please fill me in on your impressions.
> I have a feeling we're going to be in some trouble for wondering about this.


 
 No comparsion


----------



## zeissiez

joseph69 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > It is not, though I have a few of the 5Z4G tubes as well. This is the second tube listed in dubstepgirl's rectifier thread. It is really, really good. I had the 5Z4G in for some time before getting a used U52 for about 150 bucks. At that price, I doubt it can be beat. And I start to wonder how much better a maxed WA5 would be than a maxed WA6. One of these days I'll make it to a meet and maybe get to see.
> ...




No comparison. WA5/LE is much much bigger sounding.


----------



## joseph69

audiogalore said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > No comparison. WA5/LE is much much bigger sounding.
> ...


 
 I didn't think the 5/LE could compare to the WA6…thanks for verifying this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm sure the 5/LE is better, but I was just wondering how much better, thanks.
 I'm waiting on a BHSE for my 009 and if I'm not thrilled with the combo maybe I'll try the WA22 or the WA5 or the 5LE being I do love my WA6. I would probably try the WA22 because I have the tubes for it besides the power tubes.


----------



## Audiogalore

joseph69 said:


> I didn't think the 5/LE could compare to the WA6…thanks for verifying this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well depending on your selection of headphones would determine how match the amp. The WA5 certainly does well with low and high impedance phones, plus if you choose the 009 it will drive them well with the wee exciter.


----------



## joseph69

audiogalore said:


> Well depending on your selection of headphones would determine how match the amp. The WA5 certainly does well with low and high impedance phones, plus if you choose the 009 it will drive them well with the wee exciter.


 
 No, I'm waiting for my BHSE to arrive. If I was to purchase another Woo amp it would probably be the WA22. I'm very happy with my WA6 for quite sometime now. If it turns out the BHSE/009 isn't for me, I might consider another Woo amp. or just be content with what I already have.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## jelt2359

The step up to those big tubes- whether 2a3, 300b or 445- is likely to be very noticeable over both the WA6 and WA22. Given you're going for a totl bhse, I'd probably pump for the wa5 if I were you.


----------



## joseph69

jelt2359 said:


> The step up to those big tubes- whether 2a3, 300b or 445- is likely to be very noticeable over both the WA6 and WA22. Given you're going for a totl bhse, I'd probably pump for the wa5 if I were you.


 
 Although I purchased a quad matched set of NOS Amperex EL34's for the BHSE, the thing that concerns me about the WA5/LE is the prices for good NOS tubes...at least the ones the guys here speak highly of. I'll see how things turn out with the BHSE-009 combo for a while before anything.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## TonyNewman

jelt2359 said:


> The step up to those big tubes- whether 2a3, 300b or 445- is likely to be very noticeable over both the WA6 and WA22. Given you're going for a totl bhse, I'd probably pump for the wa5 if I were you.


 
  
 "Big tubes" _start _at the 300B. Real men go for the 845 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This is going to be heresy in the Woo thread, but I am going to say it anyway. After investing a great deal of time and money in tubes and tube amps over the past 3 years I am done. I have found, in the Violectric V281, a solid state amp that comes ever so close to the very best tube amp I have ever heard (Glenn 300B - an amp that eats the WA5 for breakfast) in the things that tubes do so well (holographic effect + warmth) and retains the detail and dynamics of solid state. It really is like having your cake and eating it too, at a fraction of the price. Add in close to 100% reliability and close to zero warm up time and I am out of the tube game. Give me a V281 + HE6/HD800S and I am done.


----------



## novaca

tonynewman said:


> "Big tubes" _start _at the 300B. Real men go for the 845
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am also embarrassed ...
 Year of rolling tubes with WA6-SE (3000 USD for them) and now I listen Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon (599 USD SS amp) and...
 And now I do not know if I even try WA22, or leave the world of WA or even tubes. But it was great fun (for big bucks).


----------



## zeissiez

tonynewman said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > The step up to those big tubes- whether 2a3, 300b or 445- is likely to be very noticeable over both the WA6 and WA22. Given you're going for a totl bhse, I'd probably pump for the wa5 if I were you.
> ...




While I haven't heard the Glenn 300B tubeamp, I have an ECBA which has a higher fidelity than the WA5, I still like the WA5's euphonic/lush sound very much, I don't know if any SS amp can give those rich harmonics like the WA5 can.


----------



## jhljhl

zeissiez said:


> While I haven't heard the Glenn 300B tubeamp, I have an ECBA which has a higher fidelity than the WA5, I still like the WA5's euphonic/lush sound very much, I don't know if any SS amp can give those rich harmonics like the WA5 can.


 
  
  


tonynewman said:


> "Big tubes" _start _at the 300B. Real men go for the 845
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 At some point it is about lateral moves- like comparing lamborghini and ferrari. Horizontal product categories as oppose to vertical.  But that's what headfi is at some point we hold our taste to be the best taste maybe?  Like how can you prefer pizza over a hamburger?  Or steak at Peter Lugers over sushi at Masa. (Both of which I have not tried but somewhat renown...)


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> "Big tubes" _start _at the 300B. Real men go for the 845
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tony, what happened to the SimAudio Moon 430HA? I recall a similar posting on this thread about *that* amp.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Tony, what happened to the SimAudio Moon 430HA? I recall a similar posting on this thread about *that* amp.


 
  
 Sold and gone. 430HA has great warmth and musicality, but at the expense of dynamics and punch. Not my thing.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> No, I'm waiting for my BHSE to arrive. If I was to purchase another Woo amp it would probably be the WA22. I'm very happy with my WA6 for quite sometime now. If it turns out the BHSE/009 isn't for me, I might consider another Woo amp. or just be content with what I already have.
> 
> Thanks.



"Content" what is this word you speak of...


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> "Content" what is this word you speak of...


 
 I like my WA6/GS-1 amplifiers with my Grados very much and could be satisfied with these combos for the rest of my journey…but I do want to hear the 009/BHSE combo. I already have the 009 and I should be receiving the BHSE in a couple of months being batch #4 is complete and burning-in at this time.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> "Big tubes" _start _at the 300B. Real men go for the 845
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 After hearing that V281 I'm thinking of giving up on the WA22 and tubes and get me one as well.
  
 The V281 smashed the WA22.
  
 How did Violectric make a SS amp sound holographic like a tube amp????


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> After hearing that V281 I'm thinking of giving up on the WA22 and tubes and get me one as well.
> 
> The V281 smashed the WA22.
> 
> How did Violectric make a SS amp sound holographic like a tube amp????


Surely both you kiwis dontvwantvto have the same gear!!??

Looks like there's an impending mega tube sale about to erupt on the land of the long white cloud!!


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Surely both you kiwis dontvwantvto have the same gear!!??
> 
> Looks like there's an impending mega tube sale about to erupt on the land of the long white cloud!!


 

 It was embarrassing how much better the V281 was.
  
 I kinda need one now.
  
 Last week I was thinking about buying two more TAK 274B tubes. No point. I will stick my $$'s towards the V281.


----------



## TonyNewman

thecrow said:


> Surely both you kiwis dontvwantvto have the same gear!!??
> 
> Looks like there's an impending mega tube sale about to erupt on the land of the long white cloud!!


 
  
 It's kinda interesting. Between the 2 of us we have been through a LOT of gear. The V281 is a standout product. Take the punch, detail and dynamics of the Auralic Taurus and combine that with the warmth and musicality of the 430HA - in other words the best of both amps - and you get a V281. It also has plenty of juice for the HE6 (or anything else for that matter, in balanced mode).
  
 This is the first solid state amp I have heard that pushes all those buttons. I like the romance of tubes, but it really isn't a rational thing anymore for me. As always, YMMV.
  
 I will keep my 300B and Wa6 amps, mostly for fun and to make use of my hefty tube stocks, but really the V281 does make them a little redundant.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ....
> How did Violectric make a SS amp sound holographic like a tube amp????


 
  
 I think that is in the unusual design, which is one (improved) V200 amp per channel. They share a power supply and not much else - however they did it, it works. What impresses me most is that Lake People / Violectric got some warmth and musicality happening without sacrificing detail / punch / dynamics.


----------



## jayband

badas said:


> After hearing that V281 I'm thinking of giving up on the WA22 and tubes and get me one as well.
> 
> The V281 smashed the WA22.
> 
> How did Violectric make a SS amp sound holographic like a tube amp????


 

 SS beats the WA22? What tube on the WA22 are you comparing? Also I suppose SS has only 1 characteristic but tube does give you more rolling options (different day at a time, you might want to listen to different types of sound....)


----------



## abvolt

Remember as with all audio gear it's highly subjective to ones own opinion..


----------



## Badas

jayband said:


> SS beats the WA22? What tube on the WA22 are you comparing? Also I suppose SS has only 1 characteristic but tube does give you more rolling options (different day at a time, you might want to listen to different types of sound....)


 

 V281 smashed my Woo WA22. Using my own HP's.
 Tubes: Rectifier TAK 274B (one of the best), Drivers Tung-Sol Round Plates 6C8G (one of the best) and power tubes Mullard 6080 (near best).
  
 V281 had more bass, cleaner bass, the same amount of mid-range and more detail as you would expect from a SS amp. It combined the best of both techs. SS bass, Tube mid-range, SS detail and the real kicker it was holographic. The Oppo HA-1, Sim Audio 230HA, Sim Audio 430HA, Auralic Taurus and HiFiman speaker taps (all SS) have never sounded holographic. Somehow the V281 is. There really is no advantage in a tube amp now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I will keep my WA22 for nostalgic reasons, however I need a V281 pronto.


----------



## jayband

badas said:


> V281 smashed my Woo WA22. Using my own HP's.
> Tubes: Rectifier TAK 274B (one of the best), Drivers Tung-Sol Round Plates 6C8G (one of the best) and power tubes Mullard 6080 (near best).
> 
> V281 had more bass, cleaner bass, the same amount of mid-range and more detail as you would expect from a SS amp. It combined the best of both techs. SS bass, Tube mid-range, SS detail and the real kicker it was holographic. The Oppo HA-1, Sim Audio 230HA, Sim Audio 430HA, Auralic Taurus and HiFiman speaker taps (all SS) have never sounded holographic. Somehow the V281 is. There really is no advantage in a tube amp now.
> ...


 

 if I have a chance to audit it, will be good. Meanwhile I do have the Oppo HA-1, currently I am using it to drive the WA22 as I feel the HA-1 headphone sound is not my cup of tea on the HD800


----------



## Badas

jayband said:


> if I have a chance to audit it, will be good. Meanwhile I do have the Oppo HA-1, currently I am using it to drive the WA22 as I feel the HA-1 headphone sound is not my cup of tea on the HD800


 

 I have the Oppo HA-1 plus the Woo WA22 and using a Arcam DAC to feed both. I don't like the HA-1 DAC. It sounds better feeding a different DAC.
 I did use the DAC on the HA-1 to feed the WA22 for a short time. Things got better for the WA22 once I changed the DAC.
  
 I'm thinking of selling both the HA-1 and the WA22 and buying the V281 and possibly the WA6. I recon the WA6 would look cool stacked on the V281. About the same profile. WA6 would probably not get used much. I would just have it to use up my tube stock.


----------



## jayband

badas said:


> I have the Oppo HA-1 plus the Woo WA22 and using a Arcam DAC to feed both. I don't like the HA-1 DAC. It sounds better feeding a different DAC.
> I did use the DAC on the HA-1 to feed the WA22 for a short time. Things got better for the WA22 once I changed the DAC.
> 
> I'm thinking of selling both the HA-1 and the WA22 and buying the V281 and possibly the WA6. I recon the WA6 would look cool stacked on the V281. About the same profile. WA6 would probably not get used much. I would just have it to use up my tube stock.


 

 WA6 or WA6SE?  Another DAC i was thinking to high bit DSD is the matrix, not sure if that will be a good combo


----------



## Badas

jayband said:


> WA6 or WA6SE?  Another DAC i was thinking to high bit DSD is the matrix, not sure if that will be a good combo


 

 Only thinking at the moment but I was thinking WA6 as it would fit on top of the V281. V281 doesn't have cooling grates as well,  another plus.
 DAC's can make a huge difference. Tony's Auralic Vega made my WA22 really sing. It beat my Arcam.


----------



## jayband

badas said:


> Only thinking at the moment but I was thinking WA6 as it would fit on top of the V281. V281 doesn't have cooling grates as well,  another plus.
> DAC's can make a huge difference. Tony's Auralic Vega made my WA22 really sing. It beat my Arcam.


 

 I was eyeing the Vega but out of my reach at the moment. Maybe I will get lucky in the used market eventually.


----------



## TonyNewman

abvolt said:


> Remember as with all audio gear it's highly subjective to ones own opinion..


 
  
 Absolutely yes. There is a big, fat _*YMMV *_on all my opinions spouted here (explicit or implicit).


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Remember as with all audio gear it's highly subjective to ones own opinion..


 
  
  


tonynewman said:


> Absolutely yes. There is a big, fat _*YMMV *_on all my opinions spouted here (explicit or implicit).


 

 Not on mine. I'm always right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 No absolutely *YMMV*. I have made a lot of silly purchases and mistakes in the past.


----------



## TonyNewman

jayband said:


> I was eyeing the Vega but out of my reach at the moment. Maybe I will get lucky in the used market eventually.


 
  
 I like my Vega a lot, but it is getting a little old now considering how fast DAC performance appears to be progressing. Similar levels of performance can perhaps be had for less $$$ (Schiit Yaggy?), or more performance for similar coin? I have never heard the Schiit DAC, but have read plenty of comments by folks that have that put the Vega and Yaggy at a similar performance level (and many say they prefer the Yaggy).


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> thecrow said:
> 
> 
> > Surely both you kiwis dontvwantvto have the same gear!!??
> ...


 
 Ever listen to a Burson Conductor or Virtuoso if so how would you compare it to the V281


----------



## Contrails

> I will keep my WA22 for nostalgic reasons, however I need a V281 pronto


 
  
 Oh boy, this week has brought some interesting turn of events in NZ! 
  
 Not surprised you liked the V281 but for you and Tony to regard it better than Wa5 now that's quite something.  No wonder it got some fantastic reviews.


----------



## TonyNewman

contrails said:


> Oh boy, this week has brought some interesting turn of events in NZ!
> 
> Not surprised you liked the V281 but for you and Tony to regard it better than Wa5 now that's quite something.  No wonder it got some fantastic reviews.


 
  
 No piece of gear can be all things to all people, but the V281 comes pretty close for my needs and preferences. WA5 will always win for lushness / euphony. For just about anything else, it would be the V281 (or the Glenn 300B).
  
 Bang for the buck comes into it too. The cost of a high end tube amp, plus high end tubes to put in it, is hefty. The V281 isn't cheap, but it is around half (or less) of an uber tube amp with uber tubes. Then there is the hassle (and expense) of tube warm up / burn in / burn out. Sometimes I just want to switch something on and get an instant fix.


----------



## thecrow

tonynewman said:


> No piece of gear can be all things to all people, but the V281 comes pretty close for my needs and preferences. WA5 will always win for lushness / euphony. For just about anything else, it would be the V281 (or the Glenn 300B).
> 
> Bang for the buck comes into it too. The cost of a high end tube amp, plus high end tubes to put in it, is hefty. The V281 isn't cheap, but it is around half (or less) of an uber tube amp with uber tubes. Then there is the hassle (and expense) of tube warm up / burn in / burn out. Sometimes I just want to switch something on and get an instant fix.


Tony, let me first say don't take this the wrong way as I'm not at all having a go and we all know it's great when we find gear that sooooo hits the right chord (excuse the pun). And obviously you and badas love the v281. 

But I gotta ask were you just excited about the 430ha when you first got it? 

Again, I ask that as a fellow music/gear lover that goes through his own ups and downs on gear


----------



## Contrails

> No piece of gear can be all things to all people, but the V281 comes pretty close for my needs and preferences. WA5 will always win for lushness / euphony. For just about anything else, it would be the V281 (or the Glenn 300B).
> 
> Bang for the buck comes into it too. The cost of a high end tube amp, plus high end tubes to put in it, is hefty. The V281 isn't cheap, but it is around half (or less) of an uber tube amp with uber tubes. Then there is the hassle (and expense) of tube warm up / burn in / burn out. Sometimes I just want to switch something on and get an instant fix.


 
  
 That's a nice way to put it in comparing tube amps and solid state.  I went from the V200 to the Wa22 cos I missed the tubes and their glow (not in the same league as the V281 and WA5 or the Glenn 300B).   But Violectric do make stellar amps and German made too.  I am guessing we shall see all the mentioned amps in the next NZ headphone meet.


----------



## pippen99

tonynewman said:


> I like my Vega a lot, but it is getting a little old now considering how fast DAC performance appears to be progressing. Similar levels of performance can perhaps be had for less $$$ (Schiit Yaggy?), or more performance for similar coin? I have never heard the Schiit DAC, but have read plenty of comments by folks that have that put the Vega and Yaggy at a similar performance level (and many say they prefer the Yaggy).


 
 I have the Vega feeding a Liquid Carbon and a WA5.  I love what it does for both amps.  I found the Yggy to be overly bright for me.  Also I cannot get past the heat that thing generates.  You can practically see the heat waves coming off it and since the case is not vented think how hot it is inside.  Can that much heat be a good thing?


----------



## TonyNewman

thecrow said:


> Tony, let me first say don't take this the wrong way as I'm not at all having a go and we all know it's great when we find gear that sooooo hits the right chord (excuse the pun). And obviously you and badas love the v281.
> 
> But I gotta ask were you just excited about the 430ha when you first got it?
> 
> Again, I ask that as a fellow music/gear lover that goes through his own ups and downs on gear


 

 Yep - I fell for the 430HA when I first got the amp. That's a very fair criticism (and I take it positively without a grumpy face). The warmth and musicality was very nice (and addictive). Took me a looooooong time to realize that the good qualities came at a significant reduction in punch / dynamics / speed. Could I have made a similar oversight with the V281? It's possible - I am human (sort of) and do screw things up from time to time. However, I made sure to get a second set of ears into the mix this time before saying too much - so it isn't just me waxing prolific on the V281. If there is a weakness to this unit I haven't found it yet, but anything is possible.
  
 By the way, I am not the only person to get enamored with the 430HA early on - check out Tyll's review on Inner Fidelity. I wonder if he will feel the same way after 6 or 12 months of living with it - I certainly didn't - but to each their own.


----------



## TonyNewman

pippen99 said:


> I have the Vega feeding a Liquid Carbon and a WA5.  I love what it does for both amps.  I found the Yggy to be overly bright for me.  Also I cannot get past the heat that thing generates.  You can practically see the heat waves coming off it and since the case is not vented think how hot it is inside.  Can that much heat be a good thing?


 
  
 I had no idea it was an indoor BBQ - good to know.


----------



## TonyNewman

contrails said:


> ... I am guessing we shall see all the mentioned amps in the next NZ headphone meet.


 
  
 I was going to attend last year, but had a dental emergency (my first root canal - that was fun).
  
 Planning to come along this year with Vega / V281 / Glenn 300B (assuming it is fixed) / HD800S / Ether C / HE6.


----------



## Contrails

> Planning to come along this year with Vega / V281 / Glenn 300B (assuming it is fixed) / HD800S / Ether C / HE6.


 
  
 Wow! quite the collection. Looking forward to it and meeting you.
  
 Btw, your post gave me an idea - Macbook>Musette DAC>WA22 as preamp (I ordered one with preamp function) > V200> LCD-X = Big smile.  More bass impact, a little cleaner sound but still retains a little bit of the tube's euphoic signature.


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> I was going to attend last year, but had a dental emergency (my first root canal - that was fun).
> 
> Planning to come along this year with Vega / V281 / Glenn 300B (assuming it is fixed) / HD800S / Ether C / HE6.


 

 How does the v281 compare to the ragnarok or headamp gsx-2?


----------



## thecrow

tonynewman said:


> I was going to attend last year, but had a dental emergency (my first root canal - that was fun).
> 
> Planning to come along this year with Vega / V281 / Glenn 300B (assuming it is fixed) / HD800S / Ether C / HE6.


If that's the gear you're taking to meets, there's one in Sydney in 2 1/2 weeks. Last Saturday of feb. 

What time do you want me to pick you and your gear up from the airport?


----------



## TonyNewman

thecrow said:


> If that's the gear you're taking to meets, there's one in Sydney in 2 1/2 weeks. Last Saturday of feb.
> 
> What time do you want me to pick you and your gear up from the airport?


 
  
 No way I'm taking gear like that through customs (NZ or Oz variety).


----------



## TonyNewman

jhljhl said:


> How does the v281 compare to the ragnarok or headamp gsx-2?


 
  
 Never heard either of those 2, so can't say.


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> I was going to attend last year, but had a dental emergency (my first root canal - that was fun).
> 
> Planning to come along this year with Vega / V281 / Glenn 300B (assuming it is fixed) / HD800S / Ether C / HE6.


 
 What is the Glenn 300b like with HD800? I was considering buying it but Glenn couldn't assure me that it would be a good match. Most guys were pairing it with LCD headphones which im not a fan of. How would you compare it to the WA5?


----------



## longbowbbs

tonynewman said:


> thecrow said:
> 
> 
> > Tony, let me first say don't take this the wrong way as I'm not at all having a go and we all know it's great when we find gear that sooooo hits the right chord (excuse the pun). And obviously you and badas love the v281.
> ...


 
 I still feel the same way with the 430 as I did 17 months ago when I first heard it. Now I use it every day. 
  
 Different strokes though...it is all good.


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> What is the Glenn 300b like with HD800? I was considering buying it but Glenn couldn't assure me that it would be a good match. Most guys were pairing it with LCD headphones which im not a fan of. How would you compare it to the WA5?


 
  
 The best I have heard the HD800C is from the Glenn 300B amp. Quite a magical combination IMHO. I would think that the HD800S would be even better, but I can't try that until my amp gets fixed.
  
 I am also not a fan of the Audeze products. Good bass and mids, but choked treble. To me they sound veiled compared to the HD800S and HE6. Not my thing.
  
 Wa5 has more lushness and euphony (running TA274B / TS RP / TA300B). Glenn amp wins in any other category. Transparency very close to the best SS amps (V281 / Taurus) combined with the tube character of the TA300B.


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Tony, let me first say don't take this the wrong way as I'm not at all having a go and we all know it's great when we find gear that sooooo hits the right chord (excuse the pun). And obviously you and badas love the v281.
> 
> But I gotta ask were you just excited about the 430ha when you first got it?
> 
> Again, I ask that as a fellow music/gear lover that goes through his own ups and downs on gear


 

 I hope you don't mind me cutting in here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I kinda discovered that the 430HA was rolled off on treble detail. Which I felt really bad about when I highlighted it to Tony. Felt crappy actually.
 It was a Chieftains track that was recorded in the mid 80's. It was obvious it had been recorded on tape as I could hear the tape source in the background. You know that very slight hiss sound. I could hear the hiss on the Auralic Taurus but could not on the 430HA. Both amps with the same music and DAC (Auralic Vega). From that point on we could both hear that the 430HA had rolled off detail. Like I said I felt crappy. As I think this ruined the 430HA for Tony. Not a very good mate aye? In all other regards the 430HA is a nice amp. Love the bass, love the midrange. Damn it is nicely built. It is just that we think a SS amp should have all it's detail.
  
 The V281 is a different beast. I tried the same test track (The Chieftains). All tape source can be heard. All SS detail is there. Add nice clean bass, a nice mid-range warmth plus the holographic effect that I have not heard before on a SS amp then you have an amazing product.


----------



## 3083joe

I have to say these are very nice sounding tubes.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I have to say these are very nice sounding tubes.


 
 What are they? Look like some kind of Tung-Sol round plates. TSRP is my poison.


----------



## 3083joe

Yes. 
6su7GTY round plate
Can find good pair for under $100
Also have a pair of 6sc7GT TS round plate coming. 
They need 8 to 9 pin adapter tho. Will let you all know how they sound. 
Very impressed tho, with 6su7 

Thanks to jhljhl
For mentioning them


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Yes.
> 6su7GTY round plate
> Can find good pair for under $100
> Also have a pair of 6sc7GT TS round plate coming.
> ...


 

 I just adore TSRP. Good to know that we can use other variants.
  
 I have 14 sets of the TSRP 6C8G.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I hope you don't mind me cutting in here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your discovery led me to the V281, so all is forgiven 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To add a little to the above - further A/B testing against the Taurus revealed that it wasn't only the treble detail that was missing - bass punch and speed were also lacking. In other words, I found the 430HA slow and with compromised dynamics (top and bottom), as well reduced detail compared to other amps. Ditching it for the V281 was expensive, but in the V281 I finally have a SS amp that presses my buttons extremely well. This is all a shame, as the 430HA has excellent build quality and features as well as lots of power, but I just couldn't get past my issues with the SQ, so it had to go. Others love it - good luck to them - but it wasn't for me.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> Your discovery led me to the V281, so all is forgiven :wink_face:
> 
> To add a little to the above - further A/B testing against the Taurus revealed that it wasn't only the treble detail that was missing - bass punch and speed were also lacking. In other words, I found the 430HA slow and with compromised dynamics (top and bottom), as well reduced detail compared to other amps. Ditching it for the V281 was expensive, but in the V281 I finally have a SS amp that presses my buttons extremely well. This is all a shame, as the 430HA has excellent build quality and features as well as lots of power, but I just couldn't get past my issues with the SQ, so it had to go. Others love it - good luck to them - but it wasn't for me.




Tony, how does the V281 fare with high impedance headphones?


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Tony, how does the V281 fare with high impedance headphones?


 
  
 Sorry I'm not Tony. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We ran and I listened to:
  
 LCD-X, Senny HD800, Senny HD800s, Ether C and HE-6. All sounded their best. My LCD-X never sounded so good.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I just adore TSRP. Good to know that we can use other variants.
> 
> I have 14 sets of the TSRP 6C8G.


 
  


3083joe said:


> Yes.
> 6su7GTY round plate
> Can find good pair for under $100
> Also have a pair of 6sc7GT TS round plate coming.
> ...


 
  
 I think these are special military spec 6sl7.  They sound much smoother than the regular ts 6sl7.


----------



## Badas

Tony,
  
 I think this might be a good idea??? Can I bring my WA22 to your place and do a shoot out between it and the V281 using the Auralic Vega DAC?
 It should be interesting and I have a dishonest motive. I would like to hear the difference to make an informed decision.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Tony,
> 
> I think this might be a good idea??? Can I bring my WA22 to your place and do a shoot out between it and the V281 using the Auralic Vega DAC?
> It should be interesting and I have a dishonest motive. I would like to hear the difference to make an informed decision.


 
  
 I like that idea. Results would be interesting across the range of headphones that we have. Bring it on.


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> Tony, how does the V281 fare with high impedance headphones?


 
  
 The HD800S sounds really excellent from the V281. The HD800C has problems that the HD800S helps to highlight (lacking in bass, prone to treble harshness and some sibilance). After spending time with the HD800S there is no going back for me - I am a HD800S fanboi now.
  
 It also drove the HE6 supremely well, to the point where I struggle to bother with the power amp speaker tap rig anymore. That setup delivers a little more bass punch, but the V281 does have a nicer tonality - so perhaps not worth it.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> I like that idea. Results would be interesting across the range of headphones that we have. Bring it on.


 

 Alright. Done.


----------



## thecrow

tonynewman said:


> The HD800S sounds really excellent from the V281. The HD800C has problems that the HD800S helps to highlight (lacking in bass, prone to treble harshness and some sibilance). After spending time with the HD800S there is no going back for me - I am a HD800S fanboi now.
> 
> It also drove the HE6 supremely well, to the point where I struggle to bother with the power amp speaker tap rig anymore. That setup delivers a little more bass punch, but the V281 does have a nicer tonality - so perhaps not worth it.


Ok. So what time can you pick ME up from the airport?


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Ok. So what time can you pick ME up from the airport?


 

 Just send me your flight details. I live near the airport.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We'll have TWO new products at CanJam SoCal. See us in the private suite upstairs.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784296/canjam-socal-2016-march-19-20-2016


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> Sorry I'm not Tony.
> 
> 
> We ran and I listened to:
> ...




My apologies there  From the several reviews I've read, the 281 seems more suitable for low impedance headphones. Am planning on getting a hd800, C or S will depend on budgetary allowance and reviews.

Would like to hear impressions of your Wa22/V281 shootout as well.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> The HD800S sounds really excellent from the V281. The HD800C has problems that the HD800S helps to highlight (lacking in bass, prone to treble harshness and some sibilance). After spending time with the HD800S there is no going back for me - I am a HD800S fanboi now.
> 
> It also drove the HE6 supremely well, to the point where I struggle to bother with the power amp speaker tap rig anymore. That setup delivers a little more bass punch, but the V281 does have a nicer tonality - so perhaps not worth it.




Thanks , Tony. For the hd800c, did it pair well too? I read that the wa22 is a good pairing since its tube lushness mitigates the harsh treble extension of the 800. The hd800c is cheaper as compared to the newer S version so I'm looking out for older version at the moment .


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> My apologies there  From the several reviews I've read, the 281 seems more suitable for low impedance headphones. Am planning on getting a hd800, C or S will depend on budgetary allowance and reviews.
> 
> Would like to hear impressions of your Wa22/V281 shootout as well.


 
  
 The HD800's were both the best I've heard them on the V281. No background noise and excellent sound signature. We would only get to 25% power on the V281 as well. So plenty of juice for the HD800's.


rossliew said:


> Thanks , Tony. For the hd800c, did it pair well too? I read that the wa22 is a good pairing since its tube lushness mitigates the harsh treble extension of the 800. The hd800c is cheaper as compared to the newer S version so I'm looking out for older version at the moment .


 
  
 I've listened to the classic version of the HD800 on my WA22 many a time. Altho I would admit the Senny sound signature is not my thing they did sound rather lovely. This weekend I will give it a closer more critical listen when I take my WA22 over to Tony's.
  
 I bet the HD800s would sound fantastic on the WA22. So that is going to be a interesting listen as well. I think I would like a pair of HD800s.


----------



## TonyNewman

I have found the HD800S to be a much superior headphone compared to the HD800C, even when the original has the mod. The mod addresses the treble peak, but doesn't fix the weak bass or the tendency to treble harshness and sibilance. I have found the HD800S does all this. Overall a much better headphone and I would advise any potential HD800C purchasers to save their ducats and go for the HD800S if they possibly can.
  
 The only downside, apart from price, is that the soundstage is not quite as precise as the HD800C. Sources in the HD800S have a placement that is a little fuzzy and without as much air around them as the HD800C. For me this was a small price to pay for all the other goodies that the HD800S delivers. YMMV.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> The HD800S sounds really excellent from the V281. The HD800C has problems that the HD800S helps to highlight (lacking in bass, prone to treble harshness and some sibilance). After spending time with the HD800S there is no going back for me - I am a HD800S fanboi now.
> 
> It also drove the HE6 supremely well, to the point where I struggle to bother with the power amp speaker tap rig anymore. That setup delivers a little more bass punch, but the V281 does have a nicer tonality - so perhaps not worth it.



Got to get a pair!


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks both Badas and Tony for the feedback. I need to wait for more detailed impressions from both you fine chaps before I pull the trigger. The one thing that gets me attracted to the classic 800 is the super wide soundstage and airiness. The bass deficiency is something I hope to resolve with a warmer amp, possible a tubed one.


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Thanks both Badas and Tony for the feedback. I need to wait for more detailed impressions from both you fine chaps before I pull the trigger. The one thing that gets me attracted to the classic 800 is the super wide soundstage and airiness. The bass deficiency is something I hope to resolve with a warmer amp, possible a tubed one.




Too much pressure. Remember our opinions are just our opinions. 

I am very interested in the test tho. I'm really interested in what the Auralic Vega can do to the WA22.

I will use the same DAC, volume level both amps and get Tony to blind test me on certain tracks. Then I will pick the best sound from not looking at what amp it is.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Too much pressure. Remember our opinions are just our opinions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Right. Well said.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Too much pressure. Remember our opinions are just our opinions.
> 
> I am very interested in the test tho. I'm really interested in what the Auralic Vega can do to the WA22.
> 
> I will use the same DAC, volume level both amps and get Tony to blind test me on certain tracks. Then I will pick the best sound from not looking at what amp it is.


Badas I'm assuming you've seen that addicted to audio have reduced the prices on these?


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> Too much pressure. Remember our opinions are just our opinions.
> 
> I am very interested in the test tho. I'm really interested in what the Auralic Vega can do to the WA22.
> 
> I will use the same DAC, volume level both amps and get Tony to blind test me on certain tracks. Then I will pick the best sound from not looking at what amp it is.




Not to worry, I won't hold you towards any decision I make.  

If only A2A will ship overseas I can get quite a number of stuff from them..


----------



## jhljhl

rossliew said:


> Not to worry, I won't hold you towards any decision I make.
> 
> If only A2A will ship overseas I can get quite a number of stuff from them..


 

 Get both!


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ....I will use the same DAC, volume level both amps and get Tony to blind test me on certain tracks. Then I will pick the best sound from not looking at what amp it is.


 
  
 Gotta love the blind test. There is nothing like it for sorting the reality from the preconception. I _*always *_learn something from blind testing (usually something about how rubbish my first set of impressions were).


----------



## Rossliew

jhljhl said:


> Get both!




Show me the money lol!

Actually I'm holding out for a Glenn OTL which is the priority. Next the wa22 as an alternative


----------



## jayband

Not sure if the question has been asked... Just wonder any WA22 owner has the Jupiter Cu Cap installed? Want to get some feedbacks on my next mod


----------



## Khragon

a1uc said:


> I had a friend of mine order the caps and install them since he does this stuff daily , I would have to look I think the caps and labor costed me 375.00  400.00  plus shipping . I know  a couple caps are also soldered from the bottom .
> 
> Anyone interested in this upgrade can contact Paul from Many Moons Audio Im sure he would be willing to do the work




Here you go


----------



## jayband

Looks like it's not too hard to do it myself by ordering 4 of the .33uF caps (save myself $100 on labor). Does it make a huge difference in the coupling section when swapping out the stock ones?


----------



## whirlwind

tonynewman said:


> jelt2359 said:
> 
> 
> > The step up to those big tubes- whether 2a3, 300b or 445- is likely to be very noticeable over both the WA6 and WA22. Given you're going for a totl bhse, I'd probably pump for the wa5 if I were you.
> ...


 
 Tony...If you are not going to be using the 300B amp....I will gladly take a couple of pair of Telefunken PY500 off of your hands, that is if you are willing to ship to the states.


----------



## TonyNewman

whirlwind said:


> Tony...If you are not going to be using the 300B amp....I will gladly take a couple of pair of Telefunken PY500 off of your hands, that is if you are willing to ship to the states.


 

 I'm trying to get it repaired locally first. If that fails I will think again on what to do with my tubes.


----------



## cloudbp

jayband said:


> Looks like it's not too hard to do it myself by ordering 4 of the .33uF caps (save myself $100 on labor). Does it make a huge difference in the coupling section when swapping out the stock ones?


 
 the caps in the newer version of the WA22 (with phrase spliter), is using a 0.47uF cap. i changed mine to a 0.22uF cap. There is a good change in the sound stage when the coupling cap is swap out, Jupiter caps have a nice warm, natural and rich sound, without slouching on the details.


----------



## abvolt

cloudbp said:


> the caps in the newer version of the WA22 (with phrase spliter), is using a 0.47uF cap. i changed mine to a 0.22uF cap. There is a good change in the sound stage when the coupling cap is swap out, Jupiter caps have a nice warm, natural and rich sound, without slouching on the details.


 
 Well that's cool to know I always wondered if their was much of a change in sq after replacing those caps..


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> Well that's cool to know I always wondered if their was much of a change in sq after replacing those caps..


 

 Vcaps are much more transparent I think probably good for WA22.


----------



## whirlwind

whirlwind said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > jelt2359 said:
> ...


 
 Fair enough....keep me in mind, I can put them to good use.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> I'm trying to get it repaired locally first. If that fails I will think again on what to do with my tubes.




What happened to the amp?


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> What happened to the amp?


 
  
 A sad tale that has already been posted in a couple of threads already. User stupidity combined with a bad tube = damaged amp.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> A sad tale that has already been posted in a couple of threads already. User stupidity combined with a bad tube = damaged amp.




Ahh ok...that must hurt your feelings pretty bad considering how desired the amp is. I feel for you, brother..


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> Ahh ok...that must hurt your feelings pretty bad considering how desired the amp is. I feel for you, brother..


 
  
 Having a V281 is nice SS alternative. I never thought I would find a SS amp that competes with high end tubes units, but the V281 made me rethink all that.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> Having a V281 is nice SS alternative. I never thought I would find a SS amp that competes with high end tubes units, but the V281 made me rethink all that.




When I'm in the market for a nice higher end tube amp, you come along and sing praises of the V281  But don't you miss the tube rolling and tube hunting adventures? What will you do with your stash of prized tubes?


----------



## abvolt

tonynewman said:


> A sad tale that has already been posted in a couple of threads already. User stupidity combined with a bad tube = damaged amp.


 
 that sucks sorry to hear that..


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> When I'm in the market for a nice higher end tube amp, you come along and sing praises of the V281  But don't you miss the tube rolling and tube hunting adventures? What will you do with your stash of prized tubes?


 
  
 Sell some off. Sit on some others for 5 - 10 years and see what happens.
  
 NU / TS RP in 6F8G / 6C8G prices are starting to go nuts. C3G might go the same way soon as more amp designers start using them.


----------



## Rossliew

tonynewman said:


> Sell some off. Sit on some others for 5 - 10 years and see what happens.
> 
> NU / TS RP in 6F8G / 6C8G prices are starting to go nuts. C3G might go the same way soon as more amp designers start using them.


 

 Sitting on treasures! May i ask which tubes are the 6F8G used as a direct plug and play replacement for?


----------



## phase0

Hello everyone, I've been reading Head-fi off and on for years. I wanted to know what I was missing in the high end. I went ahead and got the updated WA5 back in August. It's been great. Now that I have some more experience under my belt I find myself frustrated with the tube search. I'm still running stock. Every time I think about trying something I stop because of all the contrasted opinions along with warnings about sellers on eBay and being careful that you may not get what you think you are getting etc. I don't feel confident in any moves yet.
  
 In the interim I got a Cowon P1 DAP. I really like this thing too. Contrasting to the WA5 I wonder if the WA5 isn't just overkill/too much amp for me. I feel overwhelmed with the tube choices and don't know where to go with it. I'm almost considering putting it up for sale. Maybe solid state is the way to go. No fuss. Then again I have mood swings and maybe that would be the wrong move and I'd regret it. I talked myself into the WA5 thinking that as a platform it would allow me to use any range of headphone I might desire to get. I suppose my frustration is in the stock form maybe I'm not getting the full potential yet I don't know enough about the tubes and options to step in any new direction... I think I'm happy with my Cowon P1 too. Weighing them side by side the WA5 is a little bit better but comparing $800 to $5900 seems unbalanced to me. Shouldn't the WA5 kill it (I have a nice Mytek DAC in front of it)? I would also have to admit I don't have the most trained ears of the bunch here. Far from it. I really noticed the change with new DAC and headphones. The amp less so.
  
 After spending nearly $6k on the amp I haven't worked up the will to spend nearly $4k on the fancy Takatsuki tubes... Maybe one question, are there any posts or info out there that describes the impact to sound of the different tubes (300b, 6sn7, 5u4g). What's most important to upgrade first etc? I was reading about these Sophia 6sn7s on that 6sn7 Tube Addicts thread along with Ken-Rads and that sounded good but then some of these I've read don't always work well with every amp etc. Bah. anyways... Hello Woo owners


----------



## joseph69

rossliew said:


> Sitting on treasures! *May i ask which tubes are the 6F8G used as a direct plug and play replacement for?*


 
 WA22/WA5/WA5-LE/WA6/WA6-SE…but all need an adapter depending on the amp either 8-8pin or 8-9 pin.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> WA22/WA5/WA5-LE/WA6/WA6-SE…but all need an adapter depending on the amp either 8-8pin or 8-9 pin.


 
  
 Sounds right to me. Anything that a 6SN7 could be used for, as best I understand it, can also take a 6F8G, and usually a 6C8G as well (they have about 20 - 30% more gain).


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> Sounds right to me. Anything that a 6SN7 could be used for, as best I understand it, can also take a 6F8G, and usually a 6C8G as well (they have about 20 - 30% more gain).


 
 20-30% more gain meaning both the 6F8G/6C8G...or just the 6C8G?


----------



## Stereolab42

phase0 said:


> I'm still running stock.


 
  
 There is no point in buying a WA5 to run just the stock tubes. The "real" price of a WA5 is what Woo charges plus a couple thousand more for great tubes. If you are unwilling/unable to get those tubes I highly suggest selling it. You can't go wrong with Takatsuki, Sophia RP, or EML 300Bs. You can get great NOS 6SN7s/rectifiers for no more than $50-$100 each, and frequently much less if you know what to look for. The eBay tube sellers with lots of positive feedback and plausible test results are usually quite reliable. (Pictures/inclusion of the original box increase the chance the tube is actually unused.)


----------



## Khragon

phase0 said:


> After spending nearly $6k on the amp I haven't worked up the will to spend nearly $4k on the fancy Takatsuki tubes... Maybe one question, are there any posts or info out there that describes the impact to sound of the different tubes (300b, 6sn7, 5u4g). What's most important to upgrade first etc? I was reading about these Sophia 6sn7s on that 6sn7 Tube Addicts thread along with Ken-Rads and that sounded good but then some of these I've read don't always work well with every amp etc. Bah. anyways... Hello Woo owners


 
  
 If you're shooting to spend as little as possible for great tubes, I would recommend getting Sophia Royal Princess (SERPs) (usually $600-700/pair from audiogon/ebay directly from Sophia Electric), and then Sylvania NOS 6sn7 or 6f8g for drivers ($150/pair), finally Mullard GZ32/CV593 for rectifiers ($200/pair).  That totaled up to be around $1000, which I think would get you to 90% of the best tubes out there.
  
 If you want only new production, then I would go with SERPs, Sophia mesh rectifiers, and shuguang black treasure CV181 drivers.


----------



## TonyNewman

joseph69 said:


> 20-30% more gain meaning both the 6F8G/6C8G...or just the 6C8G?


 
  
 The latter.


----------



## joseph69

tonynewman said:


> The latter.


 
 Thanks.


----------



## Badas

*Woo WA22 v's Violectric V281 Shootout*
  
 Well, Tony and I did the shootout yesterday. Fun time. Remember it is just my opinion on the Shootout.
  

  

  
 The Equipment:
  
 iPod, Onkyo Dock running digital into the Auralic Vega DAC.
  
 Woo WA22. With the following tubes. TAK274B rectifier, Tung-Sol Round Plates 6C8G drivers and GE6AS7GA power tubes.
  
 Violectric V281
  
 LCD-X, HD800s and HE6.
  
 I did all my evaluation using the LCD-X. This is my everyday go to HP. So it was best that I use this HP.
  
 I broke down my evaluation of the amps in the following areas: Treble, Mid-range, Bass, Holographics, Soundstage and Speed.
 I will rank each amp as a score out of 10 in each area. Woo first and Violectric second. Woo WA22 was warmed up.
  
 1. Treble: Woo WA22. 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. More treble detail and air from the Violectric. As expected. Tubes just can't match.
 Test tracks. Adel - Hello and Rolling in the deep. No harshness from each amp. Adel is great for testing harshness.
  
 2. Mid-range: Woo WA22 10/10 v's Violectric 9/10. This is the only area the Woo took advantage. The tubes provided the very best in mid-range lushness and smoothness. Violectric was close but it was obvious the Woo was better. The mid-range was not more on the Woo it was just more natural. Tony and I chatted about this at length. The best way we could explain was the mid-range was more clinical on the Violectric where the Woo sounded more natural.
 Test Tracks. Many from artist like Alison Krauss, Adel etc...
  
 3. Bass: Woo WA22 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Violectric killed the Woo in this area. Deeper cleaner bass and I was using the TAK274B in the Woo. TAK is the best I have come across on bass.
 Test Tracks from Pearl Jam
  
 4. Holographics: Woo 10/10 v's Violectric 10/10. What a result from a SS amp. We could not blind test this. We couldn't tell them apart. I have never heard a SS amp be able to do this.
 Test Tracks. Stevie Wonder - I wish and Sir duke, Bee Gees - Jive talking.
  
 5. Soundstage: Woo 9.5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Not much in it. The higher sweeter treble from the Violectric just opened up the soundstage a tad more.
 Test Track. Alison Krauss - Gravity
  
 6. Speed: Woo WA22 5/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Oh no. The Woo just fell apart. It sounded like a flat radio at best. It was like entering a Rolls Royce in a super car race. Sure it is luxury but it can't keep up. Violectric laughed at the speed. Everything was presented with clean slam and pace.
 Test Track. Robert Palmer - Some like it hot.
  
 Did the Violectric kill the Woo WA22 like I said last week? Well no. I'm sorry for that statement. In my defense the Auralic Vega did lift the WA22 a lot. The Violectric was better in a lot of areas but one. Then killed the Woo on speed. I feel the Woo can compete. However here is the point. The Violectric V281 is the first SS amp that I have heard that really makes some tube amps pointless. Add into the mix it is cheaper than the WA22, you don't have tubes to replace or buy and it is so much easier to use and look after so to me the Violectric V281 is a revolution.
  
 HD800s and Woo WA22 evaluation to come.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> *Woo WA22 v's Violectric V281 Shootout*
> 
> Well, Tony and I did the shootout yesterday. Fun time. Remember it is just my opinion on the Shootout.
> 
> ...






I always thought the WA22 was laid back aka slow but it's still enjoyable depending on the track- a relaxing but also capable sound. I think I wrote something like walking through fog but only a few - few storms/thunder.


----------



## TonyNewman

Worth noting that both the WA22 and the V281 improved noticeably when we dialed the Vega output back to 70% on the digital volume control. That hot output from the Vega (4.2V) can causes issues with tube and SS amps. Probably a bigger performance gain on the WA22, but the treble was noticeable smoother on the V281 as well. This was not something I was expecting, as I had assumed (wrongly) that the V281 would not care about the hot input so was running the Vega @ 100% from the first day I had the V281. This was utterly WRONG. It matters. Quite a bit.
  
 I don't know why Auralic have designed the Vega with such hot output. Standard is around 2 - 2.5V. Winding the digital output back to 70% brings things back to something close to the normal range without any degradation in the SQ that we could detect. Going further (to 60%) did bring about a SQ drop that we noticed, so we left the digital output @ 70% and pushed on happily. The V281 still has plenty of power to drive the HE6 without having to manipulate the gain switches at the rear of the unit, even with the Vega throttled back to 70%. This is a beefy SS amp.
  
 The 2 biggest surprises for me of the afternoon were this piece of learning (the hot Vega output does impact the V281 performance) and just how badly the WA22 fell apart on the punchy rock track _'Some Like It Hot' _from Robert Palmer. It was a shambles on the WA22, even though the amp was sporting some _*very *_good tubes and had performed admirably on everything else.
  
 Standout headphones were the modded HE6 and HD800S. Both performed brilliantly with whatever we put through at them. Very impressed with the improvements made by Senn with the HD800S over the HD800C. I still give #1 spot to the modded HE6. I have spent a lot of hours tweaking the mods and I think I have got it about as good as I ever will and it is singing nicely. Mids are superb on both the HD800S and HE6, but the planar does things down low and up top the HD800S can't, but the Hd800S wins on soundstage (of course). Either are truly excellent with the V281. HD800S pairs extremely well with the WA22 (HE6 is a non-starter with the WA22 due to power limitations).


----------



## Badas

Woo WA22 and HD800s
  
 In a word lovely. I can't fault the pairing and I was not a HD800 fanboy.
  
 HD800s is a very different beast to the HD800. Really I would just forget about the HD800 and move on. The HD800s is superior in every way. The HD800 was on hand to use yesterday but I just didn't want to put them on.
 Here is what I heard. Where the HD800 was harsh (probably not the nicest word) and out of control in treble the HD800s was not. It was sweet and detailed. With the Woo it was warm and lush and I cannot believe I'm going to say this about a HD800 it had bass slam. Yes bass slam. Wow.
  
 In short. A top pairing HD800s and Woo WA22.


----------



## jhljhl

It sounds like HD800s sounds like my HD800c with endorphin cables.  I'm looking forward to hearing them one of these days.


----------



## phase0

Quote:


stereolab42 said:


> There is no point in buying a WA5 to run just the stock tubes. The "real" price of a WA5 is what Woo charges plus a couple thousand more for great tubes. If you are unwilling/unable to get those tubes I highly suggest selling it. You can't go wrong with Takatsuki, Sophia RP, or EML 300Bs. You can get great NOS 6SN7s/rectifiers for no more than $50-$100 each, and frequently much less if you know what to look for. The eBay tube sellers with lots of positive feedback and plausible test results are usually quite reliable. (Pictures/inclusion of the original box increase the chance the tube is actually unused.)


 
  
 Well following that message on the Violectric... I'm thinking "Shouldn't we all sell our tube amps and get one of them?" 
  


khragon said:


> If you're shooting to spend as little as possible for great tubes, I would recommend getting Sophia Royal Princess (SERPs) (usually $600-700/pair from audiogon/ebay directly from Sophia Electric), and then Sylvania NOS 6sn7 or 6f8g for drivers ($150/pair), finally Mullard GZ32/CV593 for rectifiers ($200/pair).  That totaled up to be around $1000, which I think would get you to 90% of the best tubes out there.
> 
> If you want only new production, then I would go with SERPs, Sophia mesh rectifiers, and shuguang black treasure CV181 drivers.


 
  
 So for both of you, you're basically saying upgrade the tubes. I get confused really easily on all this. I thought for example that I'd read both positive things about Shuguang Black Treasure CV181 as well as negative, it's not really the same as a 6SN7 and there's problems. I don't really care about new vs old except that there's implied a lot of deception with used/old sellers and poor testing methodology looking to take advantage of ignorant buyers and I do consider myself ignorant. Is there anything most important to upgrade first? Any way to prioritize? It sounds like I'm hearing I need to replace them all so forget about the order. Now I don't have to be totally tight fisted, if I was I never would have bought a WA5. I'm just trying to find clarity in making that first step. I've read all glowing things about The Royal Princess and EML 300b. I've seen numerous recommendations for Sophia and Shuguang. Another thing that throws me is all these codes like Mullard GZ32/VC593... So those are compatible with the WA5? I'm afraid I get some thing and start a fire  I appreciate the recommendations. I suppose I have to start somewhere and pull the trigger and try it out. Forum reading is just twisting me in knots at the end of it all.


----------



## Rossliew

Great impressions from the shoot out. Really puts things into perspective regarding tube amps and the cost to run them at their optimum level  Still, I'm sure this will not deter the tube fanboys


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Well following that message on the Violectric... I'm thinking "Shouldn't we all sell our tube amps and get one of them?"
> 
> 
> So for both of you, you're basically saying upgrade the tubes. I get confused really easily on all this. I thought for example that I'd read both positive things about Shuguang Black Treasure CV181 as well as negative, it's not really the same as a 6SN7 and there's problems. I don't really care about new vs old except that there's implied a lot of deception with used/old sellers and poor testing methodology looking to take advantage of ignorant buyers and I do consider myself ignorant. Is there anything most important to upgrade first? Any way to prioritize? It sounds like I'm hearing I need to replace them all so forget about the order. Now I don't have to be totally tight fisted, if I was I never would have bought a WA5. I'm just trying to find clarity in making that first step. I've read all glowing things about The Royal Princess and EML 300b. I've seen numerous recommendations for Sophia and Shuguang. Another thing that throws me is all these codes like Mullard GZ32/VC593... So those are compatible with the WA5? I'm afraid I get some thing and start a fire  I appreciate the recommendations. I suppose I have to start somewhere and pull the trigger and try it out. Forum reading is just twisting me in knots at the end of it all.


 

 I think EML300b and metal mullard gz34 and a pair of sylvania 6sn7- that's a good step up to begin with.  Then you can really hear the difference with stock tubes.


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Great impressions from the shoot out. Really puts things into perspective regarding tube amps and the cost to run them at their optimum level  *Still, I'm sure this will not deter the tube fanboys *


 

 I agree. The Woo WA22 still won in one area. Not by much. The mid-range. It is important to note that we listen to a lot of music in the mid-range. So tubes have their place.
 I'm happy with how the WA22 performed. It was close to the V281 in most other areas. So it is still a top amp.
  
 I eventually want a V281 and I will listen to all music on it but vocal music. However the best plan for me is DAC first. The Vega really improved the WA22. Bang for buck it will give me the best improvement. I am still just rocking a Arcam irDAC. I think my system deserves a little better.


----------



## phase0

jhljhl said:


> I think EML300b and metal mullard gz34 and a pair of sylvania 6sn7- that's a good step up to begin with.  Then you can really hear the difference with stock tubes.


 
  
 Okay. I see NOS Sylvania 6SN7-GTA Chrome Topped 1954 out on eBay for $180. From recent discussion on the 6SN7 thread chrome topped is what I want. From previous reading I was leaning towards EML300b over the Royal Princess though I haven't heard either.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Okay. I see NOS Sylvania 6SN7-GTA Chrome Topped 1954 out on eBay for $180. From recent discussion on the 6SN7 thread chrome topped is what I want. From previous reading I was leaning towards EML300b over the Royal Princess though I haven't heard either.


 

 If you want to go "all out" to hear the difference with stock- go with the Taks and metal base sylvanias 6sn7 and "don't look back" as they say.


----------



## TonyNewman

rossliew said:


> Great impressions from the shoot out. Really puts things into perspective regarding tube amps and the cost to run them at their optimum level  Still, I'm sure this will not deter the tube fanboys


 
  
 My own take on this is that there are still things that a tube amp can do with mids/vocals that SS struggles to do. The gap is small with the V281 vs Wa22, but it was definitely a _*slightly *_more pleasant experience for vocal centric tracks on the WA22.
  
 Then there are a bunch of things that SS does better than tube. For the Wa22 vs V281 scenario the key ones (to my ears) were dynamics, detail, speed, punch. Down low and up high the V281 outshines the WA22 rather clearly to my ears. With faster tracks the WA22 really fell to pieces - it was a big surprise to me just how badly.
  
 Then add in the greater costs (typically) of a high end tube amp + high end tubes, lower reliability and limited tube life, and it becomes a bit of an easy choice for me (YMMV). I already have a hefty sunk cost in tube amps and tubes, so I will persist with what I have now, but if I had my time to do it all over again I would buy a V281 and never touch a tube or a tube amp.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> My own take on this is that there are still things that a tube amp can do with mids/vocals that SS struggles to do. The gap is small with the V281 vs Wa22, but it was definitely a _*slightly *_more pleasant experience for vocal centric tracks on the WA22.
> 
> Then there are a bunch of things that SS does better than tube. For the Wa22 vs V281 scenario the key ones (to my ears) were dynamics, detail, speed, punch. Down low and up high the V281 outshines the WA22 rather clearly to my ears. With faster tracks the WA22 really fell to pieces - it was a big surprise to me just how badly.
> 
> Then add in the greater costs (typically) of a high end tube amp + high end tubes, lower reliability and limited tube life, and it becomes a bit of an easy choice for me (YMMV). I already have a hefty sunk cost in tube amps and tubes, so I will persist with what I have now, *but if I had my time to do it all over again I would buy a V281 and never touch a tube or a tube amp*.


 
  
 Yip. That is what I would do as well. If I could chose between WA22 and V281. It would be V281 all the way.
  
 However I own the WA22 with nice tubes and lots of back up tubes. So I might as well use it.
  
 V281 really showed me what a well designed/built SS amp can do. Truly impressive.
  
  
  
 Boy 'O" Boy did the WA22 fall apart on speed. It just sounded flat. Like a car radio. So you need SS for that type of music.


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> I agree. The Woo WA22 still won in one area. Not by much. The mid-range. It is important to note that we listen to a lot of music in the mid-range. So tubes have their place.
> I'm happy with how the WA22 performed. It was close to the V281 in most other areas. So it is still a top amp.
> 
> I eventually want a V281 and I will listen to all music on it but vocal music. However the best plan for me is DAC first. The Vega really improved the WA22. Bang for buck it will give me the best improvement. I am still just rocking a Arcam irDAC. I think my system deserves a little better.




Do you reckon the V281 will fare well with metal?


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Do you reckon the V281 will fare well with metal?


 

 It would be the best amp possible for metal.


----------



## phase0

Quick update guys. Okay I pulled the trigger for Sylvania 6SN7 chrome top and Mullard CZ32 brown base.
  
 I was looking at EML 300B and searched around a little bit. Didn't find an answer yet. What is the main difference from 300B, 300B-XLS, 300B-MESH? Same question for the Sophia Royal Princess Plate vs Mesh? I'm sure it's been asked 100s of times already. I'll try doing some more searching.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Quick update guys. Okay I pulled the trigger for Sylvania 6SN7 chrome top and Mullard CZ32 brown base.
> 
> I was looking at EML 300B and searched around a little bit. Didn't find an answer yet. What is the main difference from 300B, 300B-XLS, 300B-MESH? Same question for the Sophia Royal Princess Plate vs Mesh? I'm sure it's been asked 100s of times already. I'll try doing some more searching.


 
  
 Just for the record. I couldn't get the Sylvania 6SN7 tubes out of my amp fast enough. However there is fans. It depends on what you sound signature is. I found most 6SN7 tubes a waste of time.
  
 If the Sylvania's are not your signature then don't bother with 6SN7's and move to a 6F8G type drive tube. There is plenty of advise on the threads or members here that can help you with this.


----------



## Stereolab42

phase0 said:


> Quick update guys. Okay I pulled the trigger for Sylvania 6SN7 chrome top and Mullard CZ32 brown base.
> 
> I was looking at EML 300B and searched around a little bit. Didn't find an answer yet. What is the main difference from 300B, 300B-XLS, 300B-MESH? Same question for the Sophia Royal Princess Plate vs Mesh? I'm sure it's been asked 100s of times already. I'll try doing some more searching.


 
  
 The SERP doesn't come in a mesh. As for the EML I own the mesh, I know I did some research to determine I should but I forgot why.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> I agree. The Woo WA22 still won in one area. Not by much. The mid-range. It is important to note that we listen to a lot of music in the mid-range. So tubes have their place.
> I'm happy with how the WA22 performed. It was close to the V281 in most other areas. So it is still a top amp.
> 
> I eventually want a V281 and I will listen to all music on it but vocal music. However the best plan for me is DAC first. The Vega really improved the WA22. Bang for buck it will give me the best improvement.* I am still just rocking a Arcam irDAC. I think my system deserves a little better.*


 
  
 From my own experience, I agree. *BIG TIME!!!!! *Upgrade that dac when you can.
  
 I have the wa2 with my hd800. I had the irdac. GREAT VALUE versatile dac with a little warmth and a little rolled off at the end. It is a little closed in and doesn't let everything open up, but hey, it's about $600 AUD. by the way it's great with the burson soloist.
  
 Then, following some advice, guidance, temptation, prodding from other headphone enthusiasts here and elsewhere, i heard and bought the metrum hex and WOW that sooooo opened up everything. Actually I bought it (in the classifieds) and then heard it, but anyway. Like laying out everything in front of you (horizontally) you could hear so many layers with nothing on top of each other. The spacing was fantastic and the mids (guitar, piano) were quite special.
  
 The hex is the only dac at that price range I have ever heard so I'm not at all saying it is the best one at that price. No doubt and from my reading the vega probably does the same in it's on way in it's style and flavour.
  
 But yes, that dac is holding you back
  
  
 PS thanks to you and Tony for sharing your views with us here. Much appreciated. As you and we all say YMMV but your simple breakdowns and comparisons are a great way for anyone considering these to consider approaching them in their own demoing.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> Quick update guys. Okay I pulled the trigger for Sylvania 6SN7 chrome top and Mullard CZ32 brown base.
> 
> I was looking at EML 300B and searched around a little bit. Didn't find an answer yet. What is the main difference from 300B, 300B-XLS, 300B-MESH? Same question for the Sophia Royal Princess Plate vs Mesh? I'm sure it's been asked 100s of times already. I'll try doing some more searching.


 
 I really enjoy the NOS Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's in my WA6 as much as I do my NU-6F8G with my Grados.I think a big factor in tube preference is that most everyone forgets to mention the HP's their using.


----------



## musicman59

phase0 said:


> Quick update guys. Okay I pulled the trigger for Sylvania 6SN7 chrome top and Mullard CZ32 brown base.
> 
> I was looking at EML 300B and searched around a little bit. Didn't find an answer yet. What is the main difference from 300B, 300B-XLS, 300B-MESH? Same question for the Sophia Royal Princess Plate vs Mesh? I'm sure it's been asked 100s of times already. I'll try doing some more searching.



The Mesh version is smoother than the regular 300B and the XLS has a higher output. I have the Mesh for long time and I love their lushness but in my WA5-LE (original version) a pair of AVVT which are equivalent to the XLS do a better job with harder to drive headphones like planers.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Just for the record. I couldn't get the Sylvania 6SN7 tubes out of my amp fast enough. However there is fans. It depends on what you sound signature is. I found most 6SN7 tubes a waste of time.
> 
> If the Sylvania's are not your signature then don't bother with 6SN7's and move to a 6F8G type drive tube. There is plenty of advise on the threads or members here that can help you with this.


 
  
 Hilarious. I hope I like what I get. My WA5 came with Hytron 6SN7. Right now I don't know anything beyond what is stock. Your ears are the best just of what's right for you. Unfortunately there's no tube library I can pop over to in order to demo and gain experience.
  


joseph69 said:


> I really enjoy the NOS Sylvania 6SN7WGTA's in my WA6 as much as I do my NU-6F8G with my Grados.I think a big factor in tube preference is that most everyone forgets to mention the HP's their using.


 
  
 Yea I'm shopping tubes for a WA5 and currently my best headphones are Audeze LCD-XC.
  


musicman59 said:


> The Mesh version is smoother than the regular 300B and the XLS has a higher output. I have the Mesh for long time and I love their lushness but in my WA5-LE (original version) a pair of AVVT which are equivalent to the XLS do a better job with harder to drive headphones like planers.


 
  
 Thanks for the input. If I forget about how much it costs my impression right now is either get the Takatsuki or Royal Princess. Otherwise with cost a factor probably the EML.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Hilarious. I hope I like what I get. My WA5 came with Hytron 6SN7. Right now I don't know anything beyond what is stock. Your ears are the best just of what's right for you. Unfortunately there's no tube library I can pop over to in order to demo and gain experience.
> 
> 
> Yea I'm shopping tubes for a WA5 and currently my best headphones are Audeze LCD-XC.
> ...


 

 Have you tried hd800s?  Think about kr300b?  I think the Taks/WE are known for their midrange.  I can see EML considered as leaner sounding which might be preferable for planar use.


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> From my own experience, I agree. *BIG TIME!!!!! *Upgrade that dac when you can.
> 
> I have the wa2 with my hd800. I had the irdac. GREAT VALUE versatile dac with a little warmth and a little rolled off at the end. It is a little closed in and doesn't let everything open up, but hey, it's about $600 AUD. by the way it's great with the burson soloist.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, Thanks for the DAC recommendation. I will check it out.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Hey, Thanks for the DAC recommendation. I will check it out.


Metrum is about to release the menuet which I believe sits above the hex. 

There's also the musette which is a few months old that replaced their octave. 

I found the bass in the octave (mk ii)a bit too bloomy but the musette has had some better reviews. It could well suit your prefs of not going bright. I haven't heard the musette. The hex is pretty much neutral, perhaps A touch warm. 

I believe there is a nz stockist,from memory.

http://www.criticalsound.co.nz/products/

If you get a chance to hear it and might like it, there was one In the classifieds. The member was going to upgrade to the menuet. The musette came out in about October. 

Again I can't personally say how it sits with other dacs in the market but I think the hex is a bloody ripper. And for my hd800 it sits well without being too analytical but natural and neutral (hint of warmth) to allow the tubes to do their things 

Just my 2 cents


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> It would be the best amp possible for metal.




Hmm...just no tube rolling hahaha


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Hmm...just no tube rolling hahaha


 

 No tube rolling is a plus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Then you get faster speed, deeper clearer bass, more detail and it is holographic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All this with no warm up or chance of exploding tubes.
  
 Unless you want exploding tubes for effect.


----------



## Rossliew

I want the mesmerizing look of lighted tubes to bring me to worlds beyond...or something like that


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> No tube rolling is a plus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 nothing with tube rolling - i've just put in some bendix 6080wb and running some of stevie wonder's musiquarium through it - thanks to your listing of tracks that you listened to on the weekend. 
  
 Adele did not last too long - i think i made it to about 30 seconds - i couldn't stand it
  
 Have not heard "I wish" for sooo long
  
 "peeeeooople, keep on learning,
 tuuuuubbbbes, keep on rolling.
 til i reach the highest ground"


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> nothing with tube rolling - i've just put in some bendix 6080wb and running some of stevie wonder's musiquarium through it - thanks to your listing of tracks that you listened to on the weekend.
> 
> Adele did not last too long - i think i made it to about 30 seconds - i couldn't stand it
> 
> ...


 
  
 Stevie wonder is the king of the holographic sound. Igneous.
  
 If any one wants to try and get the holographic effect listen to Sir Duke or I wish from the Songs in the Key of Life album. Nothing is better for the effect. Some Bee Gees is good as well.
  
 Try SS and it sounds nice but very left and right sound. Then try tubes or the V281 and the sounds surround you.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Stevie wonder is the king of the holographic sound. Igneous.
> 
> If any one wants to try and get the holographic effect listen to Sir Duke or I wish from the Songs in the Key of Life album. Nothing is better for the effect. Some Bee Gees is good as well.
> 
> Try SS and it sounds nice but very left and right sound. Then try tubes or the V281 and the sounds surround you.


Not only is stevie wonder hot like lava, as you say, "igneous", some others would even say he's a genius. (I'm assuming that was auto correct taking over....or maybe not) 

I did also visit jive talking off bee gees greatest hits double cd, but if that sounded good to you you just gave had a better version 

I'll put stevie back on tonight when the house is asleep again


Im not going to change my setup at home but I am keen to sit with the v281 if I get a chance.


----------



## phase0

jhljhl said:


> Have you tried hd800s?  Think about kr300b?  I think the Taks/WE are known for their midrange.  I can see EML considered as leaner sounding which might be preferable for planar use.


 

 I heard the Senn HD800s at a Canjam. They were comfortable but I thought them a bit too bright. I saw something on an InnerFidelity video that there was a simple DIY fix, but that was long after I heard them. I haven't thought about KR300B, where do those fit in the range of options? It also seems that people like their Elrog 300B more than EML but there were a lot of failure issues. I'm leaning towards the EML because anything will probably be an upgrade and then I can get everything done for around $1K and hopefully be happy with it for a while.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I heard the Senn HD800s at a Canjam. They were comfortable but I thought them a bit too bright. I saw something on an InnerFidelity video that there was a simple DIY fix, but that was long after I heard them. I haven't thought about KR300B, where do those fit in the range of options? It also seems that people like their Elrog 300B more than EML but there were a lot of failure issues. I'm leaning towards the EML because anything will probably be an upgrade and then I can get everything done for around $1K and hopefully be happy with it for a while.




Are you getting the HD800 and the HD800s confused? The HD800 is bright. There is no way I would say the HD800s was. I listen dark and to me the HD800s is perfect.


----------



## jelt2359

badas said:


> Are you getting the HD800 and the HD800s confused? The HD800 is bright. There is no way I would say the HD800s was. I listen dark and to me the HD800s is perfect.


 
 I'm quite sure he meant HD800's not HD800S, as the mods came out 'long after he had heard them'...


----------



## magiccabbage

Question here for WA5 owners... Can the AVVT 300b SL be used in the WA5? I assume it can but just want to be sure that it wont damage the amp


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> *Woo WA22 v's Violectric V281 Shootout*
> 
> Well, Tony and I did the shootout yesterday. Fun time. Remember it is just my opinion on the Shootout.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know someone else commented on the DAC; but with all of the wonderful gear (amps, cans), you should really consider a transport upgrade. I have come full circle on this and now believe that the transport is critical to good sound - even with mid-Fi gear downstream.
  
 I can't imaging that iPod Classic into an Onkyo dock is serving you well.
  
 Before you roll your eyes and shake your head, audition something (much) better and see for yourself. I was completely blown away at the difference a dedicated, high quality transport made in my system and I can only imagine with an amp/can pairing like the Violectric V281 and HD-800s.


----------



## musicman59

magiccabbage said:


> Question here for WA5 owners... Can the AVVT 300b SL be used in the WA5? I assume it can but just want to be sure that it wont damage the amp


 
 Yes they can. They are equivalent to the EML 300B XLS. I have two pair of them and running them right now in my WA5-LE with great results. My tubes complement right now is AVVT 330B SL, Tung-Sol 6F8G RP/BG and Chemler U52 rectifiers.


----------



## magiccabbage

musicman59 said:


> Yes they can. They are equivalent to the EML 300B XLS. I have two pair of them and running them right now in my WA5-LE with great results. My tubes complement right now is AVVT 330B SL, Tung-Sol 6F8G RP/BG and Chemler U52 rectifiers.


 
 good stuff. How would you compare them to the EML 300b mesh. thats what I use at the moment and am hoping for an improvement in SQ
  
 Would you rate them up there with ELROG and SERPS?
  
 I will also be using 6f8g drivers and brimar rectifiers. also have some ken rad vts - i prefer the ken rads over the 6f8gs but that might change with the avvts in the chain


----------



## musicman59

magiccabbage said:


> good stuff. How would you compare them to the EML 300b mesh. thats what I use at the moment and am hoping for an improvement in SQ
> 
> Would you rate them up there with ELROG and SERPS?


 
 I have never used the SERPS but I used to have the ELROG. I personally like them better that the ELROG and they are more powerful and dynamic that the EML 300B Mesh but if you want lushness in the sound then EML Mesh have more of it. Since I installed the AVVT I have not look back so far... maybe the Taks are in my future..


----------



## magiccabbage

musicman59 said:


> I have never used the SERPS but I used to have the ELROG. I personally like them better that the ELROG and they are more powerful and dynamic that the EML 300B Mesh but if you want lushness in the sound then EML Mesh have more of it. Since I installed the AVVT I have not look back so far... maybe the Taks are in my future..


 
 that is exactly what i want to hear. Having heard lots of 6sn7s do you still like to roll lots of them or are you content with hearing your 2 favorite? I think i might just stick to 6f8g and ken rads - dunno if i should waste my time and money buying other 6sn7s? Same with the rectifiers - i think i might just eventually have 2 maybe the gec u52 and metal mullard.


----------



## magiccabbage

also - do you use hd800 with your wa5?


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Are you getting the HD800 and the HD800s confused? The HD800 is bright. There is no way I would say the HD800s was. I listen dark and to me the HD800s is perfect.


 

 You're right. I'm totally confused. I didn't know there was an HD800 and an HD800-S edition.


----------



## leftside

"Treble: Woo WA22. 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. More treble detail and air from the Violectric. As expected. Tubes just can't match.
  Bass: Woo WA22 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Violectric killed the Woo in this area."
 9/10 and 10/10 are pretty close. If the Violectric "killed" the Woo, shouldn't the Woo have been graded far lower than 9/10? I'm going to do my own shootout this weekend with a recently acquired Woo WA22 and a Bryston BHA-1.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> I know someone else commented on the DAC; but with all of the wonderful gear (amps, cans), you should really consider a transport upgrade. I have come full circle on this and now believe that the transport is critical to good sound - even with mid-Fi gear downstream.
> 
> I can't imaging that iPod Classic into an Onkyo dock is serving you well.
> 
> Before you roll your eyes and shake your head, audition something (much) better and see for yourself. I was completely blown away at the difference a dedicated, high quality transport made in my system and I can only imagine with an amp/can pairing like the Violectric V281 and HD-800s.


 
  
 I have a Wadia iPod dock/transport and have been a previous owner of a high end music server. To my ears they are all indistinguishable to the Onkyo.
  
 The Vega does perform slightly better when fed via USB (that is how the Vega is built - it does it's best work via USB). I use a 4 year old Windows PC for USB feed and am very happy with it's performance. Again, the expensive music server made no difference to my ears.
  
 My take - this is the supply of digital DATA - not music. There is no 'music' until the DAC has done its thing and an analogue signal exists. Until then this is an exercise in data transfer. As long as the DAC is getting fed what it needs, when it needs it, then all is good.
  
 Have you tried distinguishing the different sources, consistently, in a blind test? If the difference is as large as you suggest then this should be an easy task. I tried and I can't. YMMV.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> "Treble: Woo WA22. 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. More treble detail and air from the Violectric. As expected. Tubes just can't match.
> Bass: Woo WA22 9/10 v's Violectric 10/10. Violectric killed the Woo in this area."
> 9/10 and 10/10 are pretty close. If the Violectric "killed" the Woo, shouldn't the Woo have been graded far lower than 9/10? I'm going to do my own shootout this weekend with a recently acquired Woo WA22 and a Bryston BHA-1.


 

 Is there a perfect car?  Is there a perfect amp?  That depends on the person as much as the car or amp.  I think it's not unusual to have several amps if one can budget it as automobile enthusiasts have several cars.  I think having both a ss and tube amp is good to cover a wide range of music if one's audio budget makes that feasible.


----------



## TonyNewman

> ... I'm going to do my own shootout this weekend with a recently acquired Woo WA22 and a Bryston BHA-1.


 
  
 I'm not sure what they will prove. The reason why we bothered to do the comparison with the V281 vs WA22 and put the results into this thread is that the V281 does things that a 'typical' SS amp does not. This is what makes it competitive with a tube amp, even in those areas where a tube amp normally excels (holographic effect, rich vocals), while still retaining the advantages of SS (speed, detail, dynamics, punch).
  
 I know of no other SS amp that does this. Certainly my previously owned Taurus and 430HA did not perform like this. This is what makes the V281 a game changer for me. There is very little a tube amp can do better than the V281, and not much of a gap even in those areas. There is quite a bit that the V281 does better than a tube amp. All for less dollars and greater reliability and convenience.
  
 I have never heard the BHA-1, but from I have read in reviews and elsewhere I doubt it is substantially different to the Auralic Taurus. Perhaps a touch brighter, and perhaps a touch less refined, but otherwise similar. A BHA-1 vs WA22 comparison is missing the point.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I know someone else commented on the DAC; but with all of the wonderful gear (amps, cans), you should really consider a transport upgrade. I have come full circle on this and now believe that the transport is critical to good sound - even with mid-Fi gear downstream.
> 
> I can't imaging that iPod Classic into an Onkyo dock is serving you well.
> 
> Before you roll your eyes and shake your head, audition something (much) better and see for yourself. I was completely blown away at the difference a dedicated, high quality transport made in my system and I can only imagine with an amp/can pairing like the Violectric V281 and HD-800s.


 
  
 Yeah. I have done extensive tests. I have a Oppo BDP103D in my rack that plays SACD and DVD Audio. I have compared the formats and never heard a difference. One time I compared an album that was on SACD, CD, MP3 (ripped from CD), Vinyl and I had made a Vinyl rip. MP3 was as good as all other digital formats.


tonynewman said:


> *I'm not sure what they will prove. The reason why we bothered to do the comparison with the V281 vs WA22 and put the results into this thread is that the V281 does things that a 'typical' SS amp does not. This is what makes it competitive with a tube amp, even in those areas where a tube amp normally excels (holographic effect, rich vocals), while still retaining the advantages of SS (speed, detail, dynamics, punch).*
> 
> *I know of no other SS amp that does this. Certainly my previously owned Taurus and 430HA did not perform like this. This is what makes the V281 a game changer for me. There is very little a tube amp can do better than the V281, and not much of a gap even in those areas. There is quite a bit that the V281 does better than a tube amp. All for less dollars and greater reliability and convenience.*
> 
> I have never heard the BHA-1, but from I have read in reviews and elsewhere I doubt it is substantially different to the Auralic Taurus. Perhaps a touch brighter, and perhaps a touch less refined, but otherwise similar. A BHA-1 vs WA22 comparison is missing the point.


 
  
 This was the whole point to the test. It wasn't a SS v's tube test. That has been done and the results are well known. The V281 brings something new to the table. Holographics. The weak point to SS. So it was worth seeing if the amp could compete with a tube amp. It sure did.


----------



## leftside

I already have a BHA-1. My preamp can drive 2 amps (actually 3), so it's just a fun comparison that I'll do. Nothing to do with your comparison to the V281.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> ... YMMV.


 
  
 Yes, as always, YMMV.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> I already have a BHA-1. My preamp can drive 2 amps (actually 3), so it's just a fun comparison that I'll do. Nothing to do with your comparison to the V281.


 
  
 My bad. Go for gold.


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> Sounds right to me. Anything that a 6SN7 could be used for, as best I understand it, can also take a 6F8G, and usually a 6C8G as well (they have about 20 - 30% more gain).



Yes much better imho


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Yeah. I have done extensive tests. I have a Oppo BDP103D in my rack that plays SACD and DVD Audio. I have compared the formats and never heard a difference. One time I compared an album that was on SACD, CD, MP3 (ripped from CD), Vinyl and I had made a Vinyl rip. MP3 was as good as all other digital formats.
> 
> This was the whole point to the test. It wasn't a SS v's tube test. That has been done and the results are well known. The V281 brings something new to the table. Holographics. The weak point to SS. So it was worth seeing if the amp could compete with a tube amp. It sure did.


 

 There are for me two limitations to ss for me- certain limitations generally seen with the sound sig and no tube rolling or ad hoc modifications.  So the v281 sounds interesting because of the 3d - xyz axis expansion.  But one day if you can do ad hoc mods to a ss is where there may be a diminishing of the dividing wall.


----------



## TonyNewman

krutsch said:


> Yes, as always, YMMV.


 
  
 Not trying to pick a fight - I am sincerely curious - have you ever tried to blind test digital sources? If yes, can you pick a difference consistently?
  
 I tried to do this and I couldn't. I *wanted *to hear a difference, having just invested some serious coin in a music server, but the digital source made no difference to my ears at all. iPod dock / PC / pricey audiophile music server - provided the source type was consistent (USB vs SPDIF) then the results were the same for me. I could never tell them apart.
  
 After that I gave up on spending big coin on digital sources.


----------



## magiccabbage

> Originally Posted by *Badas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> * One time I compared an album that was on SACD, CD, MP3 (ripped from CD), Vinyl and I had made a Vinyl rip. MP3 was as good as all other digital formats.*
> 
> .


 
  Seriously like? What album was it?


----------



## magiccabbage

tonynewman said:


> Not trying to pick a fight - I am sincerely curious - have you ever tried to blind test digital sources? If yes, can you pick a difference consistently?
> 
> I tried to do this and I couldn't. I *wanted *to hear a difference, having just invested some serious coin in a music server, but the digital source made no difference to my ears at all. iPod dock / PC / pricey audiophile music server - provided the source type was consistent (USB vs SPDIF) then the results were the same for me. I could never tell them apart.
> 
> After that I gave up on spending big coin on digital sources.


 
 By sources do you also mean DACs?


----------



## TonyNewman

magiccabbage said:


> By sources do you also mean DACs?


 
  
 Nope - the digital source. The stuff being fed into the DAC.


----------



## musicman59

magiccabbage said:


> that is exactly what i want to hear. Having heard lots of 6sn7s do you still like to roll lots of them or are you content with hearing your 2 favorite? I think i might just stick to 6f8g and ken rads - dunno if i should waste my time and money buying other 6sn7s? Same with the rectifiers - i think i might just eventually have 2 maybe the gec u52 and metal mullard.


 
 I have several different 6SN7 or equivalent but at the end I use the 6F8G about 80-85% of the time and once in a while I roll in a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGT short bottle/chrome top/brown base just to change the flavor.
  
 Yes, I do use the HD800 but mine are recabled with the Zeus OCC Copper cable and the internal wire connecting the socket to the driver was also replaced with the same wire of the Zeus. I though they were a little harsh in stock form and with the Copper cable/wire really settle down nicely to my taste.
  
 I think you can not go wrong with the 6F8G and those rectifiers.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> There are for me two limitations to ss for me- certain limitations generally seen with the sound sig and no tube rolling or ad hoc modifications.  So the v281 sounds interesting because of the 3d - xyz axis expansion.  But one day if you can do ad hoc mods to a ss is where there may be a diminishing of the dividing wall.


 
 I actually had a big think about that. The fact you can't change a SS amp sound signature. Here is what I thought about that and the V281.
  
 1. Seriously you wouldn't want to change the V281 sound signature anyway. It sounds that good. Every part of a sound signature is up there with the best. It ticks all the boxes.
  
 2. As we roll tubes we all by word of mouth discover better tubes than others. So the great tube rush happens. Pushing up the prices. Not really good bang for buck. Unless new production tubes improve we eventually will have nothing to roll with (that statement excludes TAK tubes).
  
 3. If Solid State amps improve like the V281. Couldn't we use EQ to change the signature or possibly tube pre-amps? That will be fun.
  


magiccabbage said:


> Seriously like? What album was it?


 
  
 Miles Davis - Kind of Blue. I have it on all formats.


----------



## leftside

magiccabbage said:


> Seriously like? What album was it?


 

 I have the same question.
  
 For albums that I have on SACD, Vinyl, CD and MP3 (FLAC - direct rip from the CD) I consider the following to be true:
 Vinyl > CD (though this is debatable, and on different systems the reverse may be true)
 SACD > CD
 CD == MP3 (FLAC or equivalent).
  
 BUT, I have also ripped SACD's to 384kHz ISO files. When using JRiver as the audio player bitstreaming to my DAC I can't tell any difference between the "original" SACD in a SACD player compared to these ripped files played through JRiver to my DAC. I've not been able to replicate the vinyl sound in a digital format though 
  
 So, what am I trying to say? I have doubts whether the transport makes a difference, but I do believe the format makes a difference. A higher end system will reveal these differences more clearly.
 The original mastering/production also certainly makes a difference. A badly mastered/produced SACD, vinyl or CD will still sound poor.
  
 The DAC does make a (big) difference though. It was the biggest difference I noticed to my system.
  
 We seem to have strayed off-topic, but it is an interesting subject.


----------



## TonyNewman

leftside said:


> ... The DAC does make a (big) difference though. It was the biggest difference I noticed to my system.
> ...


 
  
 I agree. DAC is where the data transfer (digital) stops and the music (analogue) begins.
  
 I am very happy with my rig as it is now - maybe a DAC upgrade in about 2 years.


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> I actually had a big think about that. The fact you can't change a SS amp sound signature. Here is what I thought about that and the V281.


 
 But you can change a SS amp sound signature.  About half of the Gustard H10 thread is taken up by comparison of different opamp combinations.  Over 100 pages devoted to opamp rolling.  I know because I participated until moving on to a Liquid Carbon and then a WA5.


----------



## reeltime

leftside said:


> I have the same question.
> 
> For albums that I have on SACD, Vinyl, CD and MP3 (FLAC - direct rip from the CD) I consider the following to be true:
> Vinyl > CD (though this is debatable, and on different systems the reverse may be true)
> ...


 
  
 DSD, to me, is the future of digital.  It's slow in coming, but the titles that are available sound, to my ears, better than any digital format prior.  Is it better than analog?  In a few cases yes.  I still prefer the 45RPM Kind of Blue to the DSD.  But there's a convenience to digital that's hard to discount.  I wouldn't think anyone crazy for preferring a DSD file to vinyl.  
  
 Both formats sound excellent through my WA5.  (A subtle nudge back on-topic).


----------



## daverich4

leftside said:


> BUT, I have also ripped SACD's to 384kHz ISO files.




Are you using one of the old PlayStations to rip your SACDs? Or is there some other way to do it? I have a large collection of them that I'd like to rip but have never wanted to hunt down the right model PlayStation to do it.


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> Not trying to pick a fight - I am sincerely curious - have you ever tried to blind test digital sources? If yes, can you pick a difference consistently?
> 
> I tried to do this and I couldn't. I *wanted *to hear a difference, having just invested some serious coin in a music server, but the digital source made no difference to my ears at all. iPod dock / PC / pricey audiophile music server - provided the source type was consistent (USB vs SPDIF) then the results were the same for me. I could never tell them apart.
> 
> After that I gave up on spending big coin on digital sources.


 

 That's fine. I believe I can hear a difference, though the differences can be subtle. IMO, it's difficult to execute a good ABX test. In general, I compare components through long-term listening sessions, but I know that's a contentious topic.
  
 Depending on your DAC, there can be a difference using S/PDIF vs. USB; in the former case, timing is everything and many DACs have superior handling of S/PDIF over USB. Electrical noise matters, a lot, and I've personally struggled to obtain the same quality of output from my MacBook as with a dedicated renderer, even using isolating/re-clocking technologies like UpTone's Regen and a dedicated S/PDIF converter.
  
 But, when it all comes together, it's remarkable how different the same DAC and amp can sound.


----------



## leftside

reeltime said:


> DSD, to me, is the future of digital.  It's slow in coming, but the titles that are available sound, to my ears, better than any digital format prior.  Is it better than analog?  In a few cases yes.  I still prefer the 45RPM Kind of Blue to the DSD.  But there's a convenience to digital that's hard to discount.  I wouldn't think anyone crazy for preferring a DSD file to vinyl.
> 
> Both formats sound excellent through my WA5.  (A subtle nudge back on-topic).


 

 Agreed.


----------



## leftside

daverich4 said:


> Are you using one of the old PlayStations to rip your SACDs? Or is there some other way to do it? I have a large collection of them that I'd like to rip but have never wanted to hunt down the right model PlayStation to do it.


 

 I had mine ripped a long time ago with a friends modded PlayStation. Check out this forum: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=150.0.


----------



## leftside

krutsch said:


> Electrical noise matters, a lot, and I've personally struggled to obtain the same quality of output from my MacBook as with a dedicated renderer, even using isolating/re-clocking technologies like UpTone's Regen and a dedicated S/PDIF converter.


 
 Noise from PC's or Mac's can definitely be a problem compared to a standalone player such as a dedicated SACD or CD transport. The McIntosh MCT450 SACD transport and the D150 DAC looks like a nice combo  Still, I'd me more tempted to pimp out a PC or Mac for the DSD transport as the SACD format looks tired at best. All played through a Woo Audio headphone amp of course


----------



## daverich4

leftside said:


> I had mine ripped a long time ago with a friends modded PlayStation. Check out this forum: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=150.0.


 

 Thanks, I've know about doing it that way for a while but it's more messing around than I willing to do. I know there are other ways to do it but I'm under the impression the equipment is pretty expensive.


----------



## phase0

> Originally Posted by *Krutsch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Electrical noise matters, a lot, and I've personally struggled to obtain the same quality of output from my MacBook as with a dedicated renderer, even using isolating/re-clocking technologies like UpTone's Regen and a dedicated S/PDIF converter.


 
  
 I'm using a Macbook Pro optical SPDIF to my DAC. I'm curious what is your current solution? Right now besides the optical headphone out my only other option would be an RME Babyface USB soundcard which also has an Optical SPDIF interface. I assumed it would be identical.
  
 Also curious if anyone out there can compare that V281 to the WA5? I'm assuming right now since I have a WA5 I should keep it since other comments said since they already have the tube amp and tubes they're still special enough to keep around.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I'm using a Macbook Pro optical SPDIF to my DAC. I'm curious what is your current solution? Right now besides the optical headphone out my only other option would be an RME Babyface USB soundcard which also has an Optical SPDIF interface. I assumed it would be identical.
> 
> Also curious if anyone out there can compare that V281 to the WA5? I'm assuming right now since I have a WA5 I should keep it since other comments said since they already have the tube amp and tubes they're still special enough to keep around.


 
  
 Yeah. Keep your WA5.
  
 Even tho the V281 in my opinion is far better than my WA22. I'm keeping my WA22. Eventually I will get the V281 as well.
  
 I've heard a tricked out WA5 regularly. V281 would beat that as well.
  
 I look at tubes as lazy. There is something seductive in that slow lazy sound that even the V281 can't reproduce. So for certain music tubes still have it's place.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ...
> 
> I look at tubes as lazy. *There is something seductive in that slow lazy sound* that even the V281 can't reproduce. So for certain music tubes still have it's place.


 
  
 +1 ... agreed. My Lehmann crushes my Woo in terms to clarity and headphone imaging, if that makes sense, but I spend more time with the tubes. It's a pleasing experience:
  
Tube sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> +1 ... agreed. My Lehmann crushes my Woo in terms to clarity and headphone imaging, if that makes sense, but I spend more time with the tubes. It's a pleasing experience:
> 
> Tube sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 

 How do you like your Rega DAC?


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> How do you like your Rega DAC?


 
 I know this isn't directed toward me, but I had the Rega DAC and enjoyed it very much, it had a nice analog sound to it. The only reason I sold it was because I needed a DAC with balanced outputs for my future set up.


----------



## Krutsch

phase0 said:


> I'm using a Macbook Pro optical SPDIF to my DAC.* I'm curious what is your current solution?* Right now besides the optical headphone out my only other option would be an RME Babyface USB soundcard which also has an Optical SPDIF interface. I assumed it would be identical.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My playback chain is in my signature. I am constantly moving stuff around and trying new gadgets.
  
 Optical S/PDIF TOSLINK out from your MacBook Pro actually works quite well, as it isolates your DAC from computer noise over the wire, so to speak. However, there may or may not be jitter to content with (which many on Head-Fi will tell you is nothing to worry about, so YYMV and this is just my opinion).
  
 Many DACS have S/PDIF receivers that will sort-of re-clock (my Rega is equipped with a Wolfson S/PDIF receiver that will attenuate jitter via a PLL in the receiver chipset). Another solution is a true re-clocker, like a Wyred4Sound Remedy (I have one of these) or an Empirical Audio Off-Ramp (expensive); with high jitter sources, like a Sonos or an Airport Express, it's pure magic to hear are-clocker in action.
  
 For MacBook audio, here's my latest playback chain
  
 Mac Mini (running RoonServer) --> Wi-Fi --> MacBook Retina (running Roon Remote + HQ Player w/ poly-sinc filter and forced up-samping to PCM 192/24)
 --> Curious USB cable --> UpTone Audio Regen (w/ Welborne Labs 6v regulated, linear power supply) --> Bel Canto mLink USB-to-S/PDIF Converter
 --> Kimber Kable D-60 (silver coax) --> Rega DAC --> Woo WA3
  
 Yes... I know... it's insane, if you add up the cost of it all.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> How do you like your Rega DAC?


 

 For a while, it's end-game for me. I absolutely love it.
  
 It's hard for me to describe the sound, but it seems warm without sacrificing detail and is completely non-fatiguing, unlike others I own. Seems to pair well with everything else I have.
  
 That said, I've only auditioned higher-end DACs at meets, like the Gungnir and the Yggy. I would love to try something crazy like a Resonessence Labs Invicta, a Bryston BDA-3 or the NAD M51.
  
 Some day...


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I know this isn't directed toward me, but I had the Rega DAC and enjoyed it very much, it had a nice analog sound to it. The only reason I sold it was because I needed a DAC with balanced outputs for my future set up.







krutsch said:


> For a while, it's end-game for me. I absolutely love it.
> 
> It's hard for me to describe the sound, but it seems warm without sacrificing detail and is completely non-fatiguing, unlike others I own. Seems to pair well with everything else I have.
> 
> ...




Thanks guys.

Hhhhmmm, maybe I should get one. It has those filters as well. So I should find a signature I like.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Howdy. Fed Ex delivered a WA6SE today!  Thought I should drop in here and say, Hi!  May I please join the club? 
  
 Initial impressions may be found at Woo Audio WA6 + WA6SE: Tubes, Comments, Pictures, and Advice - Page 163 post 2442 FWIW ha ha...Just the s_ame old, same old_ every new owner comments, ha ha...


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> I'm using a Macbook Pro optical SPDIF to my DAC. I'm curious what is your current solution? Right now besides the optical headphone out my only other option would be an RME Babyface USB soundcard which also has an Optical SPDIF interface. I assumed it would be identical.
> 
> Also curious if anyone out there can compare that V281 to the WA5? I'm assuming right now since I have a WA5 I should keep it since other comments said since they already have the tube amp and tubes they're still special enough to keep around.


 

 If you should ever like to part with your WA5 I would gladly pay you Tuesday...- lol.  But you could put me on the list as a potential buyer.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Also as been pointed out before tubes provide a unique sound characteristic with regard to harmonic distortion which I assume is the explanation behind its euphonic appeal. http://www.tungsol.com/tungsol/html/faqs14.html


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Howdy. Fed Ex delivered a WA6SE today!  Thought I should drop in here and say, Hi!  May I please join the club?
> 
> Initial impressions may be found at Woo Audio WA6 + WA6SE: Tubes, Comments, Pictures, and Advice - Page 163 post 2442 FWIW ha ha...Just the s_ame old, same old_ every new owner comments, ha ha...




Congrats and welcome. You didn't have to ask to join the club. You are in.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Hhhhmmm, maybe I should get one. It has those filters as well. So I should find a signature I like.


 

 You should see if you can audition one. Not every one is a fan.


----------



## reeltime

For 6F8G lovers:

Is there a particular brand to get? Tung-Sol? RCA? National Union? Which is preferred?


----------



## joseph69

reeltime said:


> For 6F8G lovers:
> Is there a particular brand to get? Tung-Sol? RCA? National Union? Which is preferred?


 
 I use the NU and find it very very good.
 I believe others use the TS and _may _prefer it over the NU?


----------



## phase0

krutsch said:


> My playback chain is in my signature. I am constantly moving stuff around and trying new gadgets.
> 
> Optical S/PDIF TOSLINK out from your MacBook Pro actually works quite well, as it isolates your DAC from computer noise over the wire, so to speak. However, there may or may not be jitter to content with (which many on Head-Fi will tell you is nothing to worry about, so YYMV and this is just my opinion).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks that helps more than just reading your sig. I looked up the Manual for my Mytek it has a 10 picosecond internal clock and can do the reclock of the incoming signal. Right now I'm happy with it. This was a huge leap from my RME Babyface. Night and day difference going to the Mytek. On the topic of DACs I just saw a new product announce from PS Audio for Directstream Junior DAC. Might be something to look at but I think it's aimed for Stereo setups more than headphone.
  
 Your chain makes my head spin  I stay on a wired network. I do have Airfoil (an OSX streaming app) so if I want to have playback on multiple devices and multiple rooms in sync I tend to use that.
  
  


jhljhl said:


> If you should ever like to part with your WA5 I would gladly pay you Tuesday...- lol.  But you could put me on the list as a potential buyer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well since you and a few others just convinced me to spend ~ $1k on tubes I think I'm going to hang on to it for now and see how that works out. I ordered the EML 300B.
  
 The other thing about the WA5 that makes me LOL is the power consumption: 1.53 amps and 164 watts (according to my Kill-a-watt) for such a low power output to the headphones (like 630mW@60ohm the manual states). Isn't it something like 1.5 volts IIRC unless in high power mode? I'm fairly dumb w/ the electronics math but I think it must be pretty inefficient. My headphones say 20 ohm impedance w/ 100 db / 1mW with an ideal power range of 1-4volts. I'm not really worried about the inefficiency or I never would have bought it to begin with but it does make me laugh a bit because I get these shame letters from the utilities company that shows my electricity use as way above my most inefficient neighbors. I'm 100% certain it's not all the WA5's fault but it doesn't help.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> For 6F8G lovers:
> 
> Is there a particular brand to get? Tung-Sol? RCA? National Union? Which is preferred?


 
  
 I have two different variants of the RCA, NU and TSRP. All are nice.
  
 NU and TSRP are the best and very close to each other. TSRP just edges out as the best tube for my taste. TSRP is a little fuller sounding. NU has a very sweet treble.
  
 Watch out for TS FP (flat plates) instead of RP (round plates) the FP is just a re-badged RCA and does not demand high special prices some sellers want.


----------



## yttrium

I am currently looking at upgrading my headphone setup. Currently I am thinking of a wa6, and either the hd650, or the k712. Does anyone here have experience with both? From what I've read here, the wa6+hd650 seems to be a popular combination, but the k712 seems less talked about. I will hopefully get the chance to audition the former pairing, but not the k712. I mostly listen to techno, ambient, and jazz. Thanks.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Congrats and welcome. You didn't have to ask to join the club. You are in.


 

 Woo Hoo!  Thank you, thank you. Another piece of the puzzle is now in place.  Now on to some other pieces.... Ha Ha.


----------



## 3083joe

Quick listening session before the kids get home.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> I have two different variants of the RCA, NU and TSRP. All are nice.
> 
> NU and TSRP are the best and very close to each other. TSRP just edges out as the best tube for my taste. TSRP is a little fuller sounding. NU has a very sweet treble.
> 
> Watch out for TS FP (flat plates) instead of RP (round plates) the FP is just a re-badged RCA and does not demand high special prices some sellers want.


 

 There's also the TS BG square plates. I can't hear a difference between square plates and round plates.


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> There's also the TS BG square plates. I can't hear a difference between square plates and round plates.


 

 Are you talking about the square plates that are a re-badged Sylvania tube. Boy O Boy I can hear a huge difference in those.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> Are you talking about the square plates that are a re-badged Sylvania tube. Boy O Boy I can hear a huge difference in those.


 

 I don't know whether it is a re-badged Sylvania or not. I have 1 pair of oval micas, 1 pair of round micas, and 3 pairs of square micas and I can't tell them apart. Others seem to agree: http://www.head-fi.org/t/410287/tung-sol-6f8g-versions#post_5442861


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> I don't know whether it is a re-badged Sylvania or not. I have 1 pair of oval micas, 1 pair of round micas, and 3 pairs of square micas and I can't tell them apart. Others seem to agree: http://www.head-fi.org/t/410287/tung-sol-6f8g-versions#post_5442861


 
  
 That post is talking about Micras. Not plates. Micras don't make a sound difference. Plates do.

 Flat plate: A re-badged RCA
 Check out the ladder effect on the left hand tube. A classic RCA plate.
  


 Round Plate: Unique to Tung-Sol. So I would guess it is not a re-badge of any kind.
  


 This is what the plates look like on the Sylvania. Square plates. If the Tung-Sol has these plates it is a re-badge. I have seen this many times.
  

  
 I haven't seen or heard a Tung-Sol oval plate. However NU and RCA use oval plates. So that could be another possible re-badge. Doe's it look like this?
  

  
  
 I own all versions and they are very different from each other.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Are you talking about the square plates that are a re-badged Sylvania tube. Boy O Boy I can hear a huge difference in those.







indiegradofan said:


> I don't know whether it is a re-badged Sylvania or not. I have 1 pair of oval micas, 1 pair of round micas, and 3 pairs of square micas and I can't tell them apart. Others seem to agree: http://www.head-fi.org/t/410287/tung-sol-6f8g-versions#post_5442861




Thanks for the input. I picked up the round plate National Unions. If I see the round Tung Sols I'll try those as well.


----------



## phase0

Well I got the Mullard GZ32 plugged into my WA5 today. Replaced the Psvane 274Bs. I have a hard time remembering the sound with such a lengthy switch over time to change tubes and get going again. I didn't listen to anything before I popped out the old either. I suppose I should try to listen for a while and switch back. These should have a burn in cycle too I assume. No obvious problems.
  

  
 First listen, sounds good... real good... but then I thought it sounded really good before I changed anything too... I'll get the Sylvania 6SN7s next Monday...


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> Flat plate: A re-badged RCA
> Check out the ladder effect on the left hand tube. A classic RCA plate.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, looks like I have 3 pairs of flat plates and 2 pairs of round plates. My flat plates all have square micas, 1 of my round plates has circle micas, and another pair of round plates has oval micas. I still don't think I could pick out the differences in a blind test.


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> OK, looks like I have 3 pairs of flat plates and 2 pairs of round plates. My flat plates all have square micas, 1 of my round plates has circle micas, and another pair of round plates has oval micas. I still don't think I could pick out the differences in a blind test.


 

  Yeah! Your link was talking Micras not plates.
  
 Micras don't make a sound difference but plates most definitely do. So your round micra and oval micra TS both with round plates should sound the same.
  
 The flat plates v's round plates are hugely different.


----------



## abvolt

indiegradofan said:


> OK, looks like I have 3 pairs of flat plates and 2 pairs of round plates. My flat plates all have square micas, 1 of my round plates has circle micas, and another pair of round plates has oval micas. I still don't think I could pick out the differences in a blind test.


 
  
 Those are some really great tubes you've when you get tired of their sound as I did check out a pair of mullard ecc31 ,35's much better you won't go back I didn't..Enjoy


----------



## phase0

I'm sold on the Mullards now after more listening. I don't think it's my imagination or expectation bias. Now I'm excited about the other tubes on the way. I think that was a nice upgrade in their own right.


----------



## Khragon

Glad you like the mullard, I like them alot too, very good bang for the bucks. No need to spend any more money on other rectifiers.


----------



## phase0

This is getting really crazy. I was happy to see the Sylvania 6SN7 GTA chrome tops came in the mail today. I don't know if it's just me... At first I'd say I can't really tell a difference in the sound. The Mullards sound clearer, more bass presence, seems like some more treble emphasis. Seemed like subtle tails and echos on effects was more discernable. Added in the Sylvanias and I feel almost like I'm traveling down a wormhole or something. Stepping into another dimension. Seems almost like time is slowing down. I don't have the same vocabulary the experienced head-fiers have to explain all what they hear. But I feel like hey it's almost like I'm tripping. This is pretty cool. Things sound really laid back but very clearly articulated. It's making everything sound brand new again.


----------



## Khragon

Wait until you drop in those EML 300Bs . And then move to C3g (need adapters) instead of the Sylvanias.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> This is getting really crazy. I was happy to see the Sylvania 6SN7 GTA chrome tops came in the mail today. I don't know if it's just me... At first I'd say I can't really tell a difference in the sound. The Mullards sound clearer, more bass presence, seems like some more treble emphasis. Seemed like subtle tails and echos on effects was more discernable. Added in the Sylvanias and I feel almost like I'm traveling down a wormhole or something. Stepping into another dimension. Seems almost like time is slowing down. I don't have the same vocabulary the experienced head-fiers have to explain all what they hear. But I feel like hey it's almost like I'm tripping. This is pretty cool. Things sound really laid back but very clearly articulated. It's making everything sound brand new again.


 

 You've only just begun.


----------



## magiccabbage

phase0 said:


> This is getting really crazy. I was happy to see the Sylvania 6SN7 GTA chrome tops came in the mail today. I don't know if it's just me... At first I'd say I can't really tell a difference in the sound. The Mullards sound clearer, more bass presence, seems like some more treble emphasis. Seemed like subtle tails and echos on effects was more discernable. Added in the Sylvanias and I feel almost like I'm traveling down a wormhole or something. Stepping into another dimension. Seems almost like time is slowing down. I don't have the same vocabulary the experienced head-fiers have to explain all what they hear. But I feel like hey it's almost like I'm tripping. This is pretty cool. Things sound really laid back but very clearly articulated. It's making everything sound brand new again.


 
  


khragon said:


> Wait until you drop in those EML 300Bs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you dont already have a pair of EML 300b I can do you a good deal on a pair. Thats if your looking for them.


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone with a WA22 advice how sensitive is the amp to tube rolling? Specifically the rectifier tube. Or are the other tubes (6sn7/6080) more effective in altering the tone of the amp? Thanks in advance


----------



## MIKELAP

Does anybody know what is the WA3 power tube slot rated at


----------



## GrindingThud

The heaters? 5A on the output tubes (combined), and 2A on the drivers (combined), they have separate windings on the transformer. As for audio power output, look here: http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


mikelap said:


> Does anybody know what is the WA3 power tube slot rated at


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Can anyone with a WA22 advice how sensitive is the amp to tube rolling? Specifically the rectifier tube. Or are the other tubes (6sn7/6080) more effective in altering the tone of the amp? Thanks in advance




I've always found the drivers are the most. Followed by rectifier then least of all power tubes. 

The biggest change to sound I ever got was going from 6SN7 to 6F8g driver tubes. Soundfield opened. It felt less tight. Sound became fuller. Bass deeper and clearer with treble rendered far more sweetly. It was a massive difference.


----------



## Contrails

> Can anyone with a WA22 advice how sensitive is the amp to tube rolling? Specifically the rectifier tube. Or are the other tubes (6sn7/6080) more effective in altering the tone of the amp? Thanks in advance


 
  
 Its subtle but it's there.  Usually, I spend a few hours/days listening to one rectifier and let my ears get used to the sound and then I make the change.  But there have been times when I just put on the test tracks and right away I can tell the difference e.g. Brimar 5r4gy and Mullard GZ32.  
  
 To add to Badas's views, changing the rectifier and driver tubes together make a bigger difference.  And you don't need to spend big.  The stock GE 6080 that come with the amp are pretty good.  A Mullard GZ32/Brimar 5r4gy rectifier and some 6f8g drivers should do the trick.


----------



## phase0

magiccabbage said:


> If you dont already have a pair of EML 300b I can do you a good deal on a pair. Thats if your looking for them.


 
  
 I wish you mentioned that earlier last week. I just ordered a pair and they haven't arrived yet.
  
 To you guys hot for the 6F8G. You need an adapter from 6SN7 for those right? Any recommendations?
  


badas said:


> I have two different variants of the RCA, NU and TSRP. All are nice.
> 
> NU and TSRP are the best and very close to each other. TSRP just edges out as the best tube for my taste. TSRP is a little fuller sounding. NU has a very sweet treble.
> 
> Watch out for TS FP (flat plates) instead of RP (round plates) the FP is just a re-badged RCA and does not demand high special prices some sellers want.


 
  
 It seems like mostly RCA is floating around there. If I read the previous info with pictures correctly about the Tung-Sol then I don't see any of the TSRP out there. Anyone want to point me to their secret supplier?
  


khragon said:


> Wait until you drop in those EML 300Bs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any thoughts on C3G vs 6F8G? A quick search on eBay I see lots of adapters but no Tubes for sale. Are these extra-rare? In the Woo Manual at least they list 6F8G for the Driver. Are there many people are running these?


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> To you guys hot for the 6F8G. You need an adapter from 6SN7 for those right? Any recommendations?
> 
> 
> It seems like mostly RCA is floating around there. If I read the previous info with pictures correctly about the Tung-Sol then I don't see any of the TSRP out there. Anyone want to point me to their secret supplier?
> ...




Yes. You need an adapter for 6F8g. Glenn adapters are the best to get. I have a few sets of them.

Tung-Sol round plate are difficult to locate and getting harder to find. I found a supply of 40 sets. However a mate and I snapped them all up. You could try Tung-Sol round plate 6SL7. They seem to be readily available or come up for sale regularly. Also no adapter required.

C3G is soooooo damn transparent. Stunning tube. Yes adapter required. You can only use WA5 up. WA22 down can't use. C3G are readily available from European suppliers. Not really a eSlay item. They are a German telephone exchange tube.


----------



## u2u2

rossliew said:


> Can anyone with a WA22 advice how sensitive is the amp to tube rolling? Specifically the rectifier tube. Or are the other tubes (6sn7/6080) more effective in altering the tone of the amp? Thanks in advance


 

 There is a very informative 6AS7G tube rollers thread that gets into all the minutia of power tubes. Dubstep Girl's rectifier review is unreal for the wealth of information in it. I have been very heavily using a WA22 for the past seven weeks averaging a solid ten hours a day. Tried a dozen different sets of power tubes ranging from lowly GE through to GEC and they have the smallest effect in general but it seems if you get a mediocre one you will readily hear it. My WWII era KenRad and Sylvania VT-231 tubes have gone back into their boxes as have my 1958 Philips GZ34 and my Mullard GZ32 and GZ37. I am finding you don't need to spend big to get great results. If anything the combination of rectifier and drivers seems to be key on the WA22. Beyond all logic I am getting my best results with a butt ugly 1952 5R4GY RCA rectifier and a set of Sylvania 6SN7WGT drivers. Best cost/performance rectifier so far is the Brimar 5Z4GY. 6F8G  are in the future along with some more rectifiers. The WA22 is fun to tube roll and I probably will need several more months to hit my best combination with my current tube stock.


----------



## Khragon

Anyone need a 4 foot long WA5 DC power cable, I got one for sale. PM me.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Yes. You need an adapter for 6F8g. Glenn adapters are the best to get. I have a few sets of them.
> 
> Tung-Sol round plate are difficult to locate and getting harder to find. I found a supply of 40 sets. However a mate and I snapped them all up. You could try Tung-Sol round plate 6SL7. They seem to be readily available or come up for sale regularly. Also no adapter required.
> 
> C3G is soooooo damn transparent. Stunning tube. Yes adapter required. You can only use WA5 up. WA22 down can't use. C3G are readily available from European suppliers. Not really a eSlay item. They are a German telephone exchange tube.


 
  
 Should I just PM Glenn to get in touch? Is there a reason you prefer the 6F8G over the C3G? What's the "best" brand there for the C3G route? (I see at least three available: Lorenz, Siemens, and Telefunken.) I suppose I should just buy both + adapters and try them out.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Should I just PM Glenn to get in touch? Is there a reason you prefer the 6F8G over the C3G? What's the "best" brand there for the C3G route? (I see at least three available: Lorenz, Siemens, and Telefunken.) I suppose I should just buy both + adapters and try them out.




I debated saying this. Beware of the C3G in Woo amps. The amps are not designed to work C3G properly. Even with an adapter. There is no risk of damage. It is just tonality changes. Tony and I have compared the WA5 to a custom Glenn amp that was designed for a C3G driver. The WA5 gets a screwy tone using C3G. Now I've said it I will probably get some hate. I just don't like members spending $$'s to discover what we already know. 

We both came to the conclusion that you don't get as much transparency as a C3G. However you are better off using 6SN7, 6SL7, 6F8G or 6C8G drivers as the tonality stays correct. 

Now that you are warned. If you want to go to C3G Tony found the Lorenz was the warmest and best.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I debated saying this. Beware of the C3G in Woo amps. The amps are not designed to work C3G properly. Even with an adapter. There is no risk of damage. It is just tonality changes. Tony and I have compared the WA5 to a custom Glenn amp that was designed for a C3G driver. The WA5 gets a screwy tone using C3G. Now I've said it I will probably get some hate. I just don't like members spending $$'s to discover what we already know.
> 
> We both came to the conclusion that you don't get as much transparency as a C3G. However you are better off using 6SN7, 6SL7, 6F8G or 6C8G drivers as the tonality stays correct.
> 
> Now that you are warned. If you want to go to C3G Tony found the Lorenz was the warmest and best.


 

 I can see what you mean but I think it sounds fine however my caveat is a loss in gain.  You've got to increase the volume knob. However from what I've heard in the wa5le I'm confident that Glenn's 300b must sound perfectly matched for the c3g so therefore highly resolving and transparent.  I can see that the c3g is a good tube from this and has good potential that I'm sure Glenn well utilized in his design.  The closest sound it kind of reminds me of is the metal base sylvania 6sn7.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> I debated saying this. Beware of the C3G in Woo amps. The amps are not designed to work C3G properly. Even with an adapter. There is no risk of damage. It is just tonality changes. Tony and I have compared the WA5 to a custom Glenn amp that was designed for a C3G driver. The WA5 gets a screwy tone using C3G. Now I've said it I will probably get some hate. I just don't like members spending $$'s to discover what we already know.
> 
> We both came to the conclusion that you don't get as much transparency as a C3G. However you are better off using 6SN7, 6SL7, 6F8G or 6C8G drivers as the tonality stays correct.
> 
> Now that you are warned. If you want to go to C3G Tony found the Lorenz was the warmest and best.


 
  
 Well I much appreciate the frank response. Looking at JacMusic's price list it doesn't look like it's that expensive for the C3G for someone who is on the fence and wants to try it (Okay the -S gets pricey). Based on your comments I'm going to avoid it for now. I have three new sets of tubes and one hasn't arrived yet. Plenty to keep me busy for a while. Also looks like the NU Round Plate 6F8G are available.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Well I much appreciate the frank response. Looking at JacMusic's price list it doesn't look like it's that expensive for the C3G for someone who is on the fence and wants to try it (Okay the -S gets pricey). Based on your comments I'm going to avoid it for now. I have three new sets of tubes and one hasn't arrived yet. Plenty to keep me busy for a while. Also looks like the NU Round Plate 6F8G are available.




Believe me NU6C8g is better than the NU6F8g in the WA5. Plus 6C is cheaper. The NU's are so very close to the Tung-Sol round plates.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Believe me NU6C8g is better than the NU6F8g in the WA5. Plus 6C is cheaper. The NU's are so very close to the Tung-Sol round plates.


 
  
  
 Glenn said he could make an el3n to 6sn7 adapter for the wa5 but with the same drop in gain like the c3g - I'm potentially interested but don't know if they'll fit - el3n are big tubes.  Anyone know?
  
 Perhaps you could use it in your wa22?


----------



## u2u2

badas said:


> I debated saying this. Beware of the C3G in Woo amps. The amps are not designed to work C3G properly. Even with an adapter. There is no risk of damage. It is just tonality changes. Tony and I have compared the WA5 to a custom Glenn amp that was designed for a C3G driver. The WA5 gets a screwy tone using C3G. Now I've said it I will probably get some hate. I just don't like members spending $$'s to discover what we already know.
> 
> We both came to the conclusion that you don't get as much transparency as a C3G. However you are better off using 6SN7, 6SL7, 6F8G or 6C8G drivers as the tonality stays correct.
> 
> Now that you are warned. If you want to go to C3G Tony found the Lorenz was the warmest and best.


 

 Wonder why Jack would demonstrate the new WA5 at TAVES with the C3G adapters and tubes? To showcase such a setup he must have been confident it sounded much better than his other amps at the show. Sounded mighty fine to me and others in attendance and I think better than the last WA5 I auditioned. Could his choice of headphones have offset the screwy tone you experienced or just different ears and expectations? I would have bought the rig but finances kept me to a WA22. Tube rolling the 5 is out of my range. No hate, just your observations do not reflect my experience with the WA5. Probably not the experience of those at Woo Audio either.


----------



## joseph69

u2u2 said:


> Wonder why Jack would demonstrate the new WA5 at TAVES with the C3G adapters and tubes? To showcase such a setup he must have been confident it sounded much better than his other amps at the show. Sounded mighty fine to me and others in attendance and I think better than the last WA5 I auditioned. Could his choice of headphones have offset the screwy tone you experienced or just different ears and expectations? I would have bought the rig but finances kept me to a WA22. Tube rolling the 5 is out of my range. No hate, just your observations do not reflect my experience with the WA5. Probably not the experience of those at Woo Audio either.


 
 How was the Abyss?


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks guys for the advice on the WA22. Still contemplating if I should get this amp considering I only have 6sn7 tube stocks and nothing else ...


----------



## u2u2

joseph69 said:


> How was the Abyss?


 

 I hit the show just after opening on Friday when it was slow and quiet. Spent all the time I wanted... Incredible sound. Much preferred it to the LCD4 they had. I was interested in getting the LCD4 but I am ruined now. If only the Loonie was stronger. In a couple of years when I retire they may be a gift to myself. Hope to see Woo in Montreal next month and will try them on a WA22 if possible.


----------



## u2u2

rossliew said:


> Thanks guys for the advice on the WA22. Still contemplating if I should get this amp considering I only have 6sn7 tube stocks and nothing else ...


 

 Herein lies the danger of frequenting this forum. Always reading about guys and gals who are pursuing the last percent or two in performance. Amp upgrades, cables of every sort, fancier DACs, scarce expensive tubes, and on and on. Some posters might even embellish their posts out of enthusiasm as they seek audio nirvana. Hope you are able to cut through the chaff and find an amp that meets your needs. There is good reason so many amps use 6SN7 variants.


----------



## Khragon

Woo makes c3g adapters now too, but all tge credits goes to Glenn for creating the original wa5 c3g adapters and introduced us to it. Woo will sell you c3g tubes and adapters too, just at an absurdly overpriced amount, I would contact Glenn for adapters and source the tubes elsewhere if you decided on the c3g option.


----------



## joseph69

u2u2 said:


> I hit the show just after opening on Friday when it was slow and quiet. Spent all the time I wanted... Incredible sound. Much preferred it to the LCD4 they had. I was interested in getting the LCD4 but I am ruined now. If only the Loonie was stronger. In a couple of years when I retire they may be a gift to myself. Hope to see Woo in Montreal next month and will try them on a WA22 if possible.


 
 Thans, I'd like to hear them myself one day.
 Hopefully you'll have them for yourself when you retire.


----------



## Badas

u2u2 said:


> Wonder why Jack would demonstrate the new WA5 at TAVES with the C3G adapters and tubes? To showcase such a setup he must have been confident it sounded much better than his other amps at the show. Sounded mighty fine to me and others in attendance and I think better than the last WA5 I auditioned. Could his choice of headphones have offset the screwy tone you experienced or just different ears and expectations? I would have bought the rig but finances kept me to a WA22. Tube rolling the 5 is out of my range. No hate, just your observations do not reflect my experience with the WA5. Probably not the experience of those at Woo Audio either.




Woo would be pushing the C3G as he has a history of doing this. A tube gains some fans. So they buy up as much as they can then promote and sell them for 10 times the price. The C3G has tripled in price since I first heard of them 6 months ago. Regardless there is a tonal swing using the WA5. It sounds very nice but it is no way tonaly accurate.


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> Woo would be pushing the C3G as he has a history of doing this. A tube gains some fans. So they buy up as much as they can then promote and sell them for 10 times the price. The C3G has tripled in price since I first heard of them 6 months ago. Regardless there is a tonal swing using the WA5. It sounds very nice but it is no way tonaly accurate.


 
 I have found a pair of Marconi branded 5691 NOS black plate for sale.  The seller claims they are rebranded RCA.  He is selling them for about 2/3 of what I have found any actual branded RCA priced.  These would replace my Sylvania 6sn7gt in my WA5.  Opinions?


----------



## thecrow

u2u2 said:


> better than the last WA5 I auditioned........I would have bought the rig but finances kept me to a WA22. Tube rolling the 5 is out of my range.




As a side point on your post it's the cost of the wa5 and cost of tube rolling that keeps my mind from even considering wanting to sus one out so as to upgrade. 

The cost is so far out of the realm of possibility for me that it keeps that in check. The wa2 plus tubes has been a splurge and a slight push in funds. 

To think 18 months ago I was umming and urrrrring on spending on an amp (the o2) the same amount as a pair of additional tubes for my wa2. 

But I digress.........


----------



## TonyNewman

Some comments on the C3G / WA5 / NU 6F8G / NU 6C8G topic. Note that I no longer own a WA5, and the WA5 that I did own was the 'old' model. All that I mention below has been mentioned before in this thread (and/or elsewhere).
  

NU 6F8G was high noise in the WA5. NU 6C8G was fine. The extra gain of the 6C8G tube seem to make the difference. I could run a NU 6F8G that was noisy in the WA5 in my WA6 and it would be fine.
There is very, very little difference in the sound of any of the C3Gs I have tried. Telefunken vs Lorenz vs Siemens vs 'S' versions of these - all basically the same tube all made by Siemens. I have stripped the metal covers off several of these tubes and the internals are absolutely identical - the exception is early production Lorenz tubes. These might be a tad warmer. These tubes are hard to find in good condition (for me anyway). My personal view is that the tonal difference is slight and not worth the extra hassle and expense of chasing the early Lorenz (YMMV).
My WA5 was fed from an Auralic Vega. This DAC has a very hot output voltage of 4.2V. Typical DAC outputs are around 2.0V to 2.5V. This caused problems with using the C3Gs in the WA5. Winding the digital output to 70% helped a great deal, but the tonality was still elevated. I don't know if this is a non-issue for the WA5 when paired with a DAC with a 'normal' output in the 2.0 to 2.5V range. Using the digital output at 70% is about as low as I can take it without introducing audible nasties. At 60% bad things start to happen, so 70% is about as low as I can go. Even at 70% the Vega is still pushing a hot output (approx 3V). Note that winding the Vega output back to 70% has helped with other amps too, including the SS V281, so the Wa5 is not alone in having a problem with such a hot DAC output. Why Auralic designed such a great sounding DAC with such an off the wall output voltage is beyond me.


----------



## Mfalcon

This may fit better in a Vega thread but I assume the input was designed that hot so it could function as input to a speaker amp directly, like a passive ore setup. Not exactly passive, as there is clearly some pre amplification going on but the Vega would reduce the need for a pre in many setups. I think I've read where they said that but can't find anything on it.


----------



## TonyNewman

mfalcon said:


> This may fit better in a Vega thread but I assume the input was designed that hot so it could function as input to a speaker amp directly, like a passive ore setup. Not exactly passive, as there is clearly some pre amplification going on but the Vega would reduce the need for a pre in many setups. I think I've read where they said that but can't find anything on it.


 

 Yep - I think that is the theory. You can feed the Vega directly into a power amp and use the digital volume control.
  
 Unfortunately, that approach has compromised the product IMHO. The digital volume control is OK down to about 70% - below that and you risk compromised SQ. If I were to feed the Vega @ 70% (or above) directly into my power amp I would blow my speakers and/or annoy the neighbours tremendously. You really should have a dedicated preamp - with volume control in the analogue domain - between the Vega and the power amp (or feed it into an integrated amp - whichever).
  
 If dropping the Vega output to 70% (approx 3V) improves the SQ of several amps significantly (WA5 / Wa22 / V281) how much better would the SQ be if the Vega output around 2V to start with so that I would not have to engage the digital volume control at all? I don't have another high end DAC to compare with, so I can't really answer that question. What I do know is that the performance improvement between running the Vega @ 100% and 70% is quite significant for the amps mentioned.
  
 The reason this is all relevant in the Woo thread is that I think it has a bearing on the odd tonality results I had when using the C3Gs with the WA5. It might also have had an impact on the issues I had using the NU 6F8Gs with the WA5 (the higher gain 6C8Gs were fine). The Vega in effect "overdrives" some amps, impacting SQ. You can dial it back somewhat using the digital volume control, but are still left with a relatively hot output of around 3V.
  
 A better design would have had the Vega output switchable between 4.2V and 2V.
  
 EDIT - the hot Vega output might also have had some impact on the tube amp failures I have had in the past 2 years (WA5 and Glenn 300B). I seem to have had worse luck than many with my tube amp reliability. I can't help but wonder if having a DAC pushing around double the 'normal' output voltage has been a factor in that.


----------



## jhljhl

Just a note about the 300b.  The JJ and Genalex reissue are reasonably affordable 300b and are I think good sounding tubes.  Even though I can say the EML 300xls has greater transparency sound stage and resolution I think these are still a good value.


----------



## fhuang

khragon said:


> Anyone need a 4 foot long WA5 DC power cable, I got one for sale. PM me.


 
  
  
 you mean the umbilical cable?


----------



## Khragon

fhuang said:


> you mean the umbilical cable?



Yes, the umbilical cable.


----------



## phase0

Hi TonyNewman,
  
 I appreciate the comments. I don't use a Vega DAC. If that is the source of a lot of the issues in the thread history then maybe the C3g is fine and the NU 6F8Gs are actually fine in the WA5. Maybe the Newest edition (which I have) would have some subtle tweaks to make it more compatible. That makes me think that it could be worth it for me to try out the 6F8G and/or C3g as my results might be better. My Mytek output according to their documents "Average level (0 VU) = +4dBu= 1.228 VRMS on XLR (between pin 2 and 3)" so I don't have the Vega issue.
  
 Completely aside one thing I've found frustrating with Head-fi is searching on these tube codes to find threads and comments. I don't think the search function works very well. I've found it easier to search google and let head-fi threads show up. But overall trying to dig through history I wasn't reading at the time it was happening is very frustrating and confusing.
  
 I'm wondering about this new Sylvania 6SN7 I got. I saw somewhere that the only "real" Chrome-top is a 1952 6SN7GT and they're all long gone from the marketplace. I know I have a 1950's era 6SN7 GTA and it has a chrome top on it. That's been my whole frustration looking around for tubes. Did I get a good one or did I screw up? Coming in from the outside not knowing anything substantial about tubes and trying to figure out what I'm even buying is rather challenging. I ordered a couple more 6SN7s. It feels like I can't avoid getting a few to experiment. I found an RCA 6SN7 GT (not the A or B for less than $50). Hoping that's as good as what Woo is selling. I'm going to try the Ken-Rad also.
  
 I'll try the NU 6F8G next. I don't know if I have the proper vocabulary or critical listening skills to articulate back what I hear but at least with a few options I should be able to find something I like best. I was actually hoping maybe naively that there would be new production runs of all the tube types that are best. I suppose the Taks accomplished this for the Power and Rectifiers but for the drivers it sounds like you have to have been in it at the right time to get the golden tubes or you're taking the 2nd/3rd best if you get lucky. Then always factor in different people listen to different stuff and like different sounds so all recommendations need a grain of salt with them...


----------



## 3083joe

Happy Sunday 
Enjoying some Melody Gardot ( thanks to Badas for turning me on to her) 
Excellent sound double LP 45rpm.


----------



## 3083joe

Think I'm selling the WE274A......
Very very happy with the tak-274B


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Hi TonyNewman,
> 
> I appreciate the comments. I don't use a Vega DAC. If that is the source of a lot of the issues in the thread history then maybe the C3g is fine and the NU 6F8Gs are actually fine in the WA5. Maybe the Newest edition (which I have) would have some subtle tweaks to make it more compatible. That makes me think that it could be worth it for me to try out the 6F8G and/or C3g as my results might be better. My Mytek output according to their documents "Average level (0 VU) = +4dBu= 1.228 VRMS on XLR (between pin 2 and 3)" so I don't have the Vega issue.
> 
> ...


 

 I wrote this in an earlier post reply to Tony:
 "I can see what you mean but I think it sounds fine however my caveat is a loss in gain.  You've got to increase the volume knob. However from what I've heard in the wa5le I'm confident that Glenn's 300b must sound perfectly matched for the c3g so therefore highly resolving and transparent.  I can see that the c3g is a good tube from this and has good potential that I'm sure Glenn well utilized in his design.  The closest sound it kind of reminds me of is the metal base sylvania 6sn7."
  
 I had no problems with the NU 6f8g as I recall in my WA5le.
  
 Looking to try el3n with adapters if they can fit near the 300b.


----------



## Khragon

Nu 6f8g doesn't work for me either with my wa5.


----------



## Badas

Go NU6C8G then you won't get issues. You will get more gain and pay less $$'s as a bonus.


----------



## Stereolab42

khragon said:


> Nu 6f8g doesn't work for me either with my wa5.


 
  
 Ditto. Any of the other brands work though.


----------



## Badas

Very slim pickings for these type of tubes now on eSlay. I just had a browse for curiosity.
  
 6 months ago there was a few really good sellers. Looks like stocks are drying up.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Very slim pickings for these type of tubes now on eSlay. I just had a browse for curiosity.
> 
> 6 months ago there was a few really good sellers. Looks like stocks are drying up.


 
  
 Great. I wonder what my stash of NU 6F8G / NU 6C8G / TS RP 6C8G / C3G will be worth in 5 years? (joking, people)


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Very slim pickings for these type of tubes now on eSlay. I just had a browse for curiosity.
> 
> 6 months ago there was a few really good sellers. Looks like stocks are drying up.


 
  
 Do you think this is the end of the golden age of tube amps? I suppose if there was demand someone will try to make new tubes to fill the gap and hopefully someone will come up with a winning combo.
  


jhljhl said:


> I wrote this in an earlier post reply to Tony:
> "I can see what you mean but I think it sounds fine however my caveat is a loss in gain.  You've got to increase the volume knob. However from what I've heard in the wa5le I'm confident that Glenn's 300b must sound perfectly matched for the c3g so therefore highly resolving and transparent.  I can see that the c3g is a good tube from this and has good potential that I'm sure Glenn well utilized in his design.  The closest sound it kind of reminds me of is the metal base sylvania 6sn7."
> 
> I had no problems with the NU 6f8g as I recall in my WA5le.


 
  
 I saw that. Sounds like one vote for the 6f8g as fine and three as will cause a problem. I did find a place with the 6c8g. I guess the adapter would be the same either way (6f8g and 6c8g)? I also heard from Woo they do offer c3g + adapter. I didn't get much on commentary like I had hoped for. All they said was that the adapters purchased on eBay could result in a fried amp.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Great. I wonder what my stash of NU 6F8G / NU 6C8G / TS RP 6C8G / C3G will be worth in 5 years? (joking, people)


 
 Ya probably got more than the sellers now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


phase0 said:


> Do you think this is the end of the golden age of tube amps? I suppose if there was demand someone will try to make new tubes to fill the gap and hopefully someone will come up with a winning combo.
> 
> 
> I saw that. Sounds like one vote for the 6f8g as fine and three as will cause a problem. I did find a place with the 6c8g. I guess the adapter would be the same either way (6f8g and 6c8g)? I also heard from Woo they do offer c3g + adapter. I didn't get much on commentary like I had hoped for. All they said was that the adapters purchased on eBay could result in a fried amp.


 
  
 Nope. I don't hold out hope for new production. They will be too expensive to make. They will ask $700 - $1000 for a set of drivers. Buy now and store is my advise.
  
 6F8G and 6C8G are pinned the same. So you can use one type of adapter. 6SN7 to 6F8G.
  
 Woo would say that about 3rd party adapters. I know they copied a few to create their own version.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Do you think this is the end of the golden age of tube amps? I suppose if there was demand someone will try to make new tubes to fill the gap and hopefully someone will come up with a winning combo.
> 
> 
> I saw that. Sounds like one vote for the 6f8g as fine and three as will cause a problem. I did find a place with the 6c8g. I guess the adapter would be the same either way (6f8g and 6c8g)? I also heard from Woo they do offer c3g + adapter. I didn't get much on commentary like I had hoped for. All they said was that the adapters purchased on eBay could result in a fried amp.


 
  
  
 You can also use 6922 adapters which are a nice option as well. c3g really reflects the 300b used because of its high transparency.  They have a bell like quality.
  
 Anyone try GEC l63 tubes in pairs?
  
 Next is the el3n if it can fit via Glenn adapters it might using slimmer 300b than eml.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

At 42/150 of the WA6SE burn-in, I capitulated. The persistent Siren Song of Mullard GZ32 CV593 NOS finally wore me down.  After cooling, the stock rectifier was replaced.  Run 15 minutes, plug in and my jaw hits the floor!  OMG This tube sounds wonderful right out of the box.  Amazing. I _really_ like this sound.  OK, more copies are on their way!


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here heard any C3G tubes in the WA5 with adapters? I'm hearing from a reliable source that these are excellent even surpassing some of the best 6SN7s!
  
 In particular the Siemens C3G.


----------



## Khragon

I have, one of the reason why I ordered a Glenn 300B, to maximize the C3g/300B pairing.  I got my adapters from Glenn.  C3g smooths out the sound while maintaining clarity, I'm not the best to describe this, but Tony have posted many times discussing C3g sound.  C3g + WA5 reduces gain though, by about 50%, not a problem, just turn up the volume.


----------



## phase0

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here heard any C3G tubes in the WA5 with adapters? I'm hearing from a reliable source that these are excellent even surpassing some of the best 6SN7s!
> 
> In particular the Siemens C3G.


 
  
 I haven't heard it but I've been trying to find out more info. The gist I'm getting is overall sound quality is improved, but it's not specifically designed for the WA5 so it's a little bit of a hack, and you may loose a little mid-bass. Again I'm just reading, haven't heard it and what do I know I'm asking the same questions?


----------



## jhljhl

khragon said:


> I have, one of the reason why I ordered a Glenn 300B, to maximize the C3g/300B pairing.  I got my adapters from Glenn.  C3g smooths out the sound while maintaining clarity, I'm not the best to describe this, but Tony have posted many times discussing C3g sound.  C3g + WA5 reduces gain though, by about 50%, not a problem, just turn up the volume.


 
  
  


phase0 said:


> I haven't heard it but I've been trying to find out more info. The gist I'm getting is overall sound quality is improved, but it's not specifically designed for the WA5 so it's a little bit of a hack, and you may loose a little mid-bass. Again I'm just reading, haven't heard it and what do I know I'm asking the same questions?


 
  
  


magiccabbage said:


> Anyone here heard any C3G tubes in the WA5 with adapters? I'm hearing from a reliable source that these are excellent even surpassing some of the best 6SN7s!
> 
> In particular the Siemens C3G.


 
  
 The adapters and c3g tubes will run around $200.  The tsrp 6f8g with adapters are around the same price.  The c3g to me are on par with the 6f8g in my opinion. There is a drop in gain but that is remedied by turning up the volume so is "correctable."  There is a lose of mid-bass on the wa5le as well but it isn't too much that the sound is hallow to me but you may feel it is otherwise depends on though this too may be satisfactorily remedied by rolling the rectifiers or 300b tubes.  In any case, as I might have mentioned before they are potentially very transparent and resolving and I can see why Glenn designed an amp around them. (In fact, one day I'd probably order if possible design wise a Glenn 300b that rolls c3g and 6sn7 and has a speaker out.)
  
 I am using non-embossed valvo c3g/s tubes but apparently they are all the same and in the embossed are the differences?


----------



## magiccabbage

My AVVT 300Bs arrived this morning ..... cant wait till work finishes!!!


----------



## jhljhl

bitten by bug said:


> At 42/150 of the WA6SE burn-in, I capitulated. The persistent Siren Song of Mullard GZ32 CV593 NOS finally wore me down.  After cooling, the stock rectifier was replaced.  Run 15 minutes, plug in and my jaw hits the floor!  OMG This tube sounds wonderful right out of the box.  Amazing. I _really_ like this sound.  OK, more copies are on their way!


 

 In the WA6se the mullard gz32 brings out the mids which is good because the WA6se is solid state sounding. 
  
 But for the WA5 if I had to choose, as they are about the same price, I'd get the plastic base mullard 5ar4 over the gz32 because it has a wider sound stage.
  
 I had tried sophia 274b but one blew out taking the fuse with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  They sounded alright not really that much different from your standard mullard 5ar4- so go NOS for reliability I guess.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> I had tried sophia 274b but one blew out taking the fuse with it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do any of these Chinese made tubes survive??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tony has had two Psvane tubes blow at different times as well. One wrecked his amp (300B). The other blew out his caps (6SN7).
  
 I wouldn't use any of the new production Chinese tube in my amp.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Do any of these Chinese made tubes survive???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's disappointing. Tubes going out is one thing - tubes damaging the amp is another thing. I heard there were issues with Sophia tubes but not as much as other Chinese company tubes.
  
 The Taks are from Japan but the case in point is that a relatively industrialized nation can hire the engineers and acquire the material to produce good tubes.  But perhaps some companies' profit is in the replacement of tubes.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> That's disappointing. Tubes going out is one thing - tubes damaging the amp is another thing. I heard there were issues with Sophia tubes but not as much as other Chinese company tubes.
> 
> The Taks are from Japan but the case in point is that a relatively industrialized nation can hire the engineers and acquire the material to produce good tubes.  But perhaps some companies' profit is in the replacement of tubes.


 

 I thought Sophia and Psvane were the same company. I don't really know. I just avoid all of them.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I thought Sophia and Psvane were the same company. I don't really know. I just avoid all of them.


 
  
  
 I'm not sure either.  NOS tubes is probably the safest bet.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Sorry to learn about all the bad luck.  The Noob is not very comforted because the Sophia 274B is running right now. Eek!


----------



## 3083joe

Evening 
Anyone used these in wa22? Replaced 6as7


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Evening
> Anyone used these in wa22? Replaced 6as7


 

 I looked into it a while back. But couldn't find a good supplier of 6BL7 tubes.


----------



## phase0

I got my used RCA 6SN7 GT (eBay)... within 30 seconds sound is gone in one channel and I get these kind of loud swell pop kind of a noise, channel goes dead, except for trying to pop. I think I got a bad tube. Head phones are fine in my DAC's jack. Swap back to my Hytron, everything is fine again. So this is exactly what I was worried about with eBay. Someone is trying to dump used up worthless garbage and rip people off.


----------



## leftside

I sell a lot (of vinyl records) on eBay, and trust me - the last thing a seller wants is bad feedback. Contact the seller and let them know what has happened. They will be foolish to not refund you your money and all shipping costs. A few negative feedbacks and they are out of business.


----------



## abvolt

phase0 said:


> I got my used RCA 6SN7 GT (eBay)... within 30 seconds sound is gone in one channel and I get these kind of loud swell pop kind of a noise, channel goes dead, except for trying to pop. I think I got a bad tube. Head phones are fine in my DAC's jack. Swap back to my Hytron, everything is fine again. So this is exactly what I was worried about with eBay. Someone is trying to dump used up worthless garbage and rip people off.


 
  
 That sucks dude sorry to hear that but I wouldn't blame ebay I've bought over 180 tubes off them never had a bad tube yet, but things do happen most buyers will accept  returns I do even though I don't advertise to.. Face it vintage tubes can be here today and gone tomorrow..


----------



## phase0

Yea I did immediately. His feedback history is 100% positive (one neg was an accident and it's clear by the comments). It will probably be ok and get the refund.
  
 I'm just worried here too that if more of the NOS dries up (Can't seem to get those Tung-Sol any more), and recent discussion is avoid the Chinese tubes, Psvane and Sophia etc. What to do for the 6SN7? I got 6F8G on the way + Adapters. Will give those a try whenever they get here.


----------



## abvolt

Cool I think you'll find the 6f8g's or 6c8g's far superior to most 6sn7's..Enjoy


----------



## Porteroso

I still am not convinced that 6F8G is really different at all from 6C8G, or that either is sonically superior to 6SN7. I think that with the very best of either of them, there is not much room for improvement. The biggest difference seems to be with gain, which rules out 6F8G when using the WA5. But truly a/b testing them is really difficult. It's more like a/ (1hr warmup) then b testing. You can't just pop tubes in and judge them after they've glowed for 15 seconds. I mean you can, and I've tried.
  
 I think that the more accurate statement is that you should be buying whichever of 6SN7/6F8G/6C8G your amp will pair well with gain-wise, and then whichever you can get for the least money. You will be happy with any variant of TS rp, and NU in the latter 2 seems to be about on par. For me, it is incredibly hard to hear the difference between NU and TS in the 6F8G I have. I have to really listen to the same things over and over to be sure that I can discern differences.
  
 I would be pretty confident in saying that the difference is all in that last 1%. And that once you have a pair in, and are listening, you will never rip them off and smash them on your keyboard in disgust, yelling "give me the other! These TS rps are just no good!!!!" So just buy whatever makes your wallet/ego happy. And put them in, and then forget about all of it.
  
 We can get so engrossed in the equipment in front of our eyes that we in some way stop enjoying the music like we can. Don't enjoy music because of its presentation. I've cried at things coming out of terrible car speakers. The presentation should just be a subtle way of being able to more fully experience the music, much in the same way that great violins or cellos are used to give the performer a bit more range of emotion and freedom; yet, the great performers sound like themselves on any instrument.


----------



## Stereolab42

porteroso said:


> I still am not convinced that 6F8G is really different at all from 6C8G, or that either is sonically superior to 6SN7. I think that with the very best of either of them, there is not much room for improvement. The biggest difference seems to be with gain, which rules out 6F8G when using the WA5. But truly a/b testing them is really difficult. It's more like a/ (1hr warmup) then b testing. You can't just pop tubes in and judge them after they've glowed for 15 seconds. I mean you can, and I've tried.


 
  
 Lol wut? I use 6F8Gs constantly with my WA5/WA5-LE. They work perfectly (except for the NUs). However they don't sound better than good 6SN7s. But they are (were) cheaper and look cooler.


----------



## TonyNewman

stereolab42 said:


> Lol wut? I use 6F8Gs constantly with my WA5/WA5-LE. They work perfectly (except for the NUs). However they don't sound better than good 6SN7s. But they are (were) cheaper and look cooler.


 
  
 Ditto. Only problem I have had is NU 6F8Gs get noisy in the Wa5. NU 6C8Gs are fine. Other flavors of 6F8G did not cause me grief.
  
 Have not had both a 6SN7 and 6F8G/6C8G version of many tubes, but the few I have tried I couldn't really pick much SQ difference (but that might just be me).


----------



## Porteroso

stereolab42 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > I still am not convinced that 6F8G is really different at all from 6C8G, or that either is sonically superior to 6SN7. I think that with the very best of either of them, there is not much room for improvement. The biggest difference seems to be with gain, which rules out 6F8G when using the WA5. But truly a/b testing them is really difficult. It's more like a/ (1hr warmup) then b testing. You can't just pop tubes in and judge them after they've glowed for 15 seconds. I mean you can, and I've tried.
> ...


 
 I was specifically thinking of the NU when I typed that. I should have said that gain rules out that specific tube. I think the tonality of the various tubes is pretty much the same across the board regardless of what tube type it comes in.


----------



## Badas

Everyone says that the NU 6C8G/6F8G sounds similar to the TSRP 6C8G/6F8G and I would agree they are close.
 I do want to say that they do sound different to me tho. I wouldn't agree with 99% close. I would go 95% close. To my ears the TSRP is fuller and the NU is sweeter. I started with a NU and when I switched to TSRP an explosion went off. In my mind there was no other tube to suit my taste. I still feel that way. It just hit all the right buttons. So I suppose that 5% makes a difference. Maybe it has more of an effect in the WA22?
  
 I would say if you like every bit of treble detail render sweetly go NU. If you like a tubey fuller mid-range then go TSRP.
  
 I don't have or dont have the $$'s to get the TSRP in a 6SN7, 6C8G and 6F8G. Crikey the 6SN7 is now around $800 a set. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However it would be nice to see if they all do sound similar. My guess is they will. They all have the same construction.


----------



## phase0

Yea as I'm running around here trying to figure out tube upgrades and getting frustrated at the lack of options (hey BTW where are some other good places to get these tubes?)... The RCAs I returned as they didn't work. I plugged the stock Hytron 6SN7s back in and it sounds great to me (with the Psvane 300B)... I can sit back and enjoy that. It's really good to my ears even though they're not TSRP. IIRC the WA5 that Mr Speaker had at CanJam had a set of TSRP in them. That was a nice setup. My EML 300B will be here soon.
  
 I think what I find so frustrating is now that I start looking, almost everything that's recommended I can't even find for sale for any price. I found someone with a single TSRP 6F8G and I think I'm going to get quoted a price that will make me walk away from it. If I got it then I would have to wait around to find another one some day to have a pair.
  
 How much worse are the more common RCA/Raytheon/Sylvania types out there? Should I really be that worried about it? Likewise is the RCA 6SN7 GTs that Woo sells for $330 worth it in the end? I know everyone has a sound preference but AFAICT I can pretty much forget finding Tung-Sol. $800 isn't worth it to me for 1%-5%.


----------



## jhljhl

Can't use these in Woo amps? but it'd be pretty interesting-  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-Dual-C3G-TO-6SN7-B65-5692-tube-converter-adapter-6-3V-/191778618216?hash=item2ca6e57b68:g:~UEAAOSwwPhWkRq7


----------



## leftside

> Originally Posted by *phase0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I think what I find so frustrating is now that I start looking, almost everything that's recommended I can't even find for sale for any price.


 
 I think it's why you see quite a few used tube headphone amps on the market. Not that there's anything wrong with them, but people can't find or afford the tubes they want. Threads like the Dubstep rectifier guide are great, but they also make the tubes mentioned more desirable and therefore the price goes up. Find some of the tube sellers online and give them a call. I know they can assist with cheaper recommendations that are also very good.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> I think it's why you see quite a few used tube headphone amps on the market. Not that there's anything wrong with them, but people can't find or afford the tubes they want. Threads like the Dubstep rectifier guide are great, but they also make the tubes mentioned more desirable and therefore the price goes up. Find some of the tube sellers online and give them a call. I know they can assist with cheaper recommendations that are also very good.


 
  
 I noticed prices for the we274 tubes seem to have gone down just a little I think because of the Taks?  And the 422a seem steady.  I think lots of people wants to start with the lower tubes and work their way up but ironically it becomes financially better to just go with the higher rated tubes to begin with.  You need probably three NOS pairs and that should last an ownership of an amp?  They are reliable for long life generally speaking aren't they? 20 hours of use a week x 52 weeks = 1040 hours. 6sn7 = 10,000 hours lifespan?  So a pair lasts 10 years?  This is too generous a guess. So say 5 years a pair then?  I suspect people will sell their amps in 5-10 years then the cycle starts again.  Eventually tube stocks will dry up - then new production tubes will be either boutique high end with a long life maybe taks?, eml? or poor life tubes that need frequent replacement psvane? shuguang?
  


phase0 said:


> Yea as I'm running around here trying to figure out tube upgrades and getting frustrated at the lack of options (hey BTW where are some other good places to get these tubes?)... The RCAs I returned as they didn't work. I plugged the stock Hytron 6SN7s back in and it sounds great to me (with the Psvane 300B)... I can sit back and enjoy that. It's really good to my ears even though they're not TSRP. IIRC the WA5 that Mr Speaker had at CanJam had a set of TSRP in them. That was a nice setup. My EML 300B will be here soon.
> 
> I think what I find so frustrating is now that I start looking, almost everything that's recommended I can't even find for sale for any price. I found someone with a single TSRP 6F8G and I think I'm going to get quoted a price that will make me walk away from it. If I got it then I would have to wait around to find another one some day to have a pair.
> 
> How much worse are the more common RCA/Raytheon/Sylvania types out there? Should I really be that worried about it? Likewise is the RCA 6SN7 GTs that Woo sells for $330 worth it in the end? I know everyone has a sound preference but AFAICT I can pretty much forget finding Tung-Sol. $800 isn't worth it to me for 1%-5%.


 

 There's someone selling a pair of tsrp 6f8g in the classifieds as well as a pair of metal 5ar4 iirc.  Also try the tube dealers - langrex, vacuumtubes etc.


----------



## phase0

jhljhl said:


> I noticed prices for the we274 tubes seem to have gone down just a little I think because of the Taks?  And the 422a seem steady.  I think lots of people wants to start with the lower tubes and work their way up but ironically it becomes financially better to just go with the higher rated tubes to begin with.  You need probably three NOS pairs and that should last an ownership of an amp?  They are reliable for long life generally speaking aren't they? 20 hours of use a week x 52 weeks = 1040 hours. 6sn7 = 10,000 hours lifespan?  So a pair lasts 10 years?  This is too generous a guess. So say 5 years a pair then?  I suspect people will sell their amps in 5-10 years then the cycle starts again.  Eventually tube stocks will dry up - then new production tubes will be either boutique high end with a long life maybe taks?, eml? or poor life tubes that need frequent replacement psvane? shuguang?
> 
> 
> There's someone selling a pair of tsrp 6f8g in the classifieds as well as a pair of metal 5ar4 iirc.  Also try the tube dealers - langrex, vacuumtubes etc.


 
  
 Doh, I didn't realize there was a a pair of tsrp in the classified. I feel like an idiot. But hey I'm trying to learn. I think I'm stuck with the WA5 for a while. I'm just hoping I can feed it good tubes. With the long lifespan of the tubes you're right maybe with a couple sets you'll be good for the next decade and in between either some more will pop up from private collections that you can re-fill from or new alternatives will come up. The impression I get though is nobody talks about all the other tubes that are still available in quantities. For me reading people's opinions and trying to figure out what my real options are between how much can I spend and what can I get. It sounds like it's not worth even considering the other stuff, though I wonder if it's not decent. Like there's no tube crisis, it's just not the best. Then if the NU and TS are within 5% of each other I'd probably be perfectly happy with NU. I just feel like there's almost a mad dash panic like I gotta get the right thing right now or it's gone forever. Probably not really true but I kind of wish I had gotten into this a while back.


----------



## Porteroso

badas said:


> Everyone says that the NU 6C8G/6F8G sounds similar to the TSRP 6C8G/6F8G and I would agree they are close.
> I do want to say that they do sound different to me tho. I wouldn't agree with 99% close. I would go 95% close. To my ears the TSRP is fuller and the NU is sweeter. I started with a NU and when I switched to TSRP an explosion went off. In my mind there was no other tube to suit my taste. I still feel that way. It just hit all the right buttons. So I suppose that 5% makes a difference. Maybe it has more of an effect in the WA22?
> 
> I would say if you like every bit of treble detail render sweetly go NU. If you like a tubey fuller mid-range then go TSRP.
> ...


 
 I was not talking about NU and TS being 99% similar. In fact, a couple hundred pages back I gave some lengthy impressions of the NU v TS in 6F8G. They are definitely different, but not by much. I don't have every 6SN7/6F8G brand/variant, but I have many, and NU/TS rp in 6F8G sound the most similar of any of the others.
  
 I will say, about tubes being hard to find, I just picked up a pair of NU 6C8G for 25 bucks each. So great tubes are still out there. It can feel frustrating at times, but we all just have to spend time getting the tubes we want, and as time goes on and people stock up on all the good ones, it gets progressively harder for anyone trying to break into the good tubes. Don't worry though, once they get really rare, someone will start putting pairs of NU 6F8G up for 1000/matched pair 
  
 Also, if price is of any concern, don't be afraid to get unmatched singles. You can find plenty of people who will tell you that getting matched tubes is best, but of the people who actually use singles, they all seem to say that singles are fine.


----------



## Stereolab42

phase0 said:


> I just feel like there's almost a mad dash panic like I gotta get the right thing right now or it's gone forever. Probably not really true but I kind of wish I had gotten into this a while back.


 
  
 Unfortunately it is kinda true. I started collecting tubes less than two years ago and the difference in availability/prices from now compared to then is incredible. Just a year ago you could pick up 8-packs of TS 6F8Gs for peanuts, IIRC.


----------



## Porteroso

stereolab42 said:


> phase0 said:
> 
> 
> > I just feel like there's almost a mad dash panic like I gotta get the right thing right now or it's gone forever. Probably not really true but I kind of wish I had gotten into this a while back.
> ...


 
 Ya, I got one of the last batches on ebay, it wasn't many, but I was buying matched pairs of TS rp for around 30 bucks I think. Now, a national union matched pair is 100.


----------



## phase0

So I got a pair of KenRad 6SN7 today, first play, one channel heavy static, no music, swapped sockets, played sounded fine for 1-2 minutes. Then the sound disappeared and the static came back. So I think the problem is these tubes. That's the 2nd set not working for me (RCA was the first). The NOS Sylvania 6SN7 work fine, stock Hytron 6SN7 work fine. This is kind of annoying.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> So I got a pair of KenRad 6SN7 today, first play, one channel heavy static, no music, swapped sockets, played sounded fine for 1-2 minutes. Then the sound disappeared and the static came back. So I think the problem is these tubes. That's the 2nd set not working for me (RCA was the first). The NOS Sylvania 6SN7 work fine, stock Hytron 6SN7 work fine. This is kind of annoying.


 
 I'd just stick with the Sylvania's, I personally think they sound great and are very reliable IME.
 I also have more than a few NOS RCA red/brown base 5692's that are the same family as the 6SN7 that sound great as well. I stocked up on some 5692's and upon receiving them, tried them just to be sure they were fine, then put them away.


----------



## phase0

joseph69 said:


> I'd just stick with the Sylvania's, I personally think they sound great and are very reliable IME.
> I also have more than a few NOS RCA red/brown base 5692's that are the same family as the 6SN7 that sound great as well. I stocked up on some 5692's and upon receiving them, tried them just to be sure they were fine, then put them away.


 
  
 Yea I bought the KenRad cause a bunch of people said 'Oh but they're the best'. As I was putting the tubes back into the box after filing a return request, I noticed the tube is loose in the base. Probably junk. I got the 6F8G adapter and ordered a pair of NU 6C8F. I'm not familiar with 5692's. I suppose that's something else I could look into. I was just trying to get a few "good ones" to hear what the difference is. I had thought that if there's a used tube that still has life left that would be fine but that seems to be flawed reasoning by the recent experience or I'm just having some bad luck.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> Yea I bought the KenRad cause a bunch of people said 'Oh but they're the best'. As I was putting the tubes back into the box after filing a return request, I noticed the tube is loose in the base. Probably junk. I got the 6F8G adapter and ordered a pair of NU 6C8F. I'm not familiar with 5692's. I suppose that's something else I could look into. I was just trying to get a few "good ones" to hear what the difference is. I had thought that if there's a used tube that still has life left that would be fine but that seems to be flawed reasoning by the recent experience or I'm just having some bad luck.


 
 I would go with new or NOS, not used.
 I don't remember if I mentioned to you about the 6FD7's from Woo but these are also nice tubes with nice gain and sound nice with the 5Z4G. Also IME/IMO I think that the power/driver tubes have a bit influence on the sound over the rectifier tube.


----------



## phase0

joseph69 said:


> I would go with new or NOS, not used.
> I don't remember if I mentioned to you about the 6FD7's from Woo but these are also nice tubes with nice gain and sound nice with the 5Z4G. Also IME/IMO I think that the power/driver tubes have a bit influence on the sound over the rectifier tube.


 
  
 I don't think you did. Those overall look cheap compared to a lot of what I was looking at. Since I got the Mullard GZ32 now and I like it, any thoughts on how 6FD7 would pair?


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> I don't think you did. Those overall look cheap compared to a lot of what I was looking at. Since I got the Mullard GZ32 now and I like it, any thoughts on how 6FD7 would pair?


 
 I had the Mullard GZ34 (not the 32) but it was a while ago and I can't comment, especially since it was a GZ32. Both the Brimar 5Z4G (rectifier) and the Westinghouse 6FD7 'big bottle' (power/driver) are a real nice inexpensive combo you should definitely try. 
  
(HERE) is the order info for the 5Z4G incase your interested…its the 14th tube when scrolling down. The 6FD7 can be ordered from Woo Audios site *under the* *WA6-SE* at the bottom of the page under the tube upgrade options on the right.


----------



## phase0

Have any of you tried the Russian tubes? I see some stuff from over there is non-name and cheap. I heard they used vacuum tube tech longer than the US and also knew how to make tubes. Is any of that worth trying?


----------



## Stereolab42

phase0 said:


> Have any of you tried the Russian tubes? I see some stuff from over there is non-name and cheap. I heard they used vacuum tube tech longer than the US and also knew how to make tubes. Is any of that worth trying?


 
  
 Yes, the Soviet stuff is underated.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Have any of you tried the Russian tubes? I see some stuff from over there is non-name and cheap. I heard they used vacuum tube tech longer than the US and also knew how to make tubes. Is any of that worth trying?







stereolab42 said:


> Yes, the Soviet stuff is underated.




To offer a different view. I would say to avoid them. I tried some power tubes early on and they were rubbish. Out of 15 sets I only got one set that was not noisy. The rest were thrown in the bin. A waste of time and $$'s.

I've had a lot of problems with noisy power tubes. I kinda think those Russan tubes may have done some damage to my amp.


----------



## Khragon

phase0 said:


> Have any of you tried the Russian tubes? I see some stuff from over there is non-name and cheap. I heard they used vacuum tube tech longer than the US and also knew how to make tubes. Is any of that worth trying?


 

 Oh man you went into the rabbit tube rolling hole   I would say give the newer production tube a try, maybe you'll like and and save you from having to search for NOS.  I recommend giving Sophia and Black Treasure a try, they sounds good, a bit coarse, but that's comparing to the best of NOS.


----------



## Badas

^

I would say wait until you get the NU6C8g's. Once you listen to those you won't want anything else. A NOS set should last 5 years plus which gives ya plenty of time to snap up any more reasonably priced sets.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Oh man you went into the rabbit tube rolling hole   I would say give the newer production tube a try, maybe you'll like and and save you from having to search for NOS.  I recommend giving Sophia and Black Treasure a try, they sounds good, a bit coarse, but that's comparing to the best of NOS.


 
  
 I think I have tried just about every new production 6SN7 type of tube out there - all were utter rubbish compared to NOS NU or TS RP. Even the lowly RCA 6C8G that I picked up in bulk for around 5 bucks per tube is at least as good (if not better) than any new production tube I have tried.
  
 Sophia, Black Treasure, PSvane, Russian - tried them and binned them.
  
 Maybe if EML or Takatsuki made a 6SN7 driver we would get something that matches (or betters) the NU or TS RP.


----------



## phase0

joseph69 said:


> I had the Mullard GZ34 (not the 32) but it was a while ago and I can't comment, especially since it was a GZ32. Both the Brimar 5Z4G (rectifier) and the Westinghouse 6FD7 'big bottle' (power/driver) are a real nice inexpensive combo you should definitely try.
> 
> (HERE) is the order info for the 5Z4G incase your interested…its the 14th tube when scrolling down. The 6FD7 can be ordered from Woo Audios site *under the* *WA6-SE* at the bottom of the page under the tube upgrade options on the right.


 
  


badas said:


> ^
> 
> I would say wait until you get the NU6C8g's. Once you listen to those you won't want anything else. A NOS set should last 5 years plus which gives ya plenty of time to snap up any more reasonably priced sets.


 
  
 joseph69 I appreciate the recommendation and want to make a note of it and save the link. I think I'm going to wait until I explore the 6[C|F]8G experiment before I consider moving on this. There's still the C3G experiment also in the back of my head. Badas, that's exactly what I'm thinking.
  
 I did try to order a few 6SN7s just to try and understand the flavor. Unfortunately and a little LOL [?] the two sets I just got were bad. SMH. I like the Sylvania but I'm wondering since I got the GTA if I should have got the GT or if there is really much difference between the two. I figured if 6SN7 is native and there are a couple sets that are reasonable. So I was looking at what's cheap on eBay and the Russian tubes come up tops hence the question. Maybe there is some untapped potential there.
  


stereolab42 said:


> Yes, the Soviet stuff is underated.


 
  


badas said:


> To offer a different view. I would say to avoid them. I tried some power tubes early on and they were rubbish. Out of 15 sets I only got one set that was not noisy. The rest were thrown in the bin. A waste of time and $$'s.
> 
> I've had a lot of problems with noisy power tubes. I kinda think those Russan tubes may have done some damage to my amp.


 
  
 I think you're both right. I'm basing this from this thread:
 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80852.0
  
 Fist it's not like I comprehensively researched the topic yesterday. This is just one of the top google matches. It makes sense to me. If I can summarize it.
 1 - Just like the complex ecosystem of American tubes, the Russian tubes have an equal variety of options to learn about and research
 2 - Some of the of the old NOS Russian tubes can be okay to good solid performers
 3 - They have some golden tubes people recognize and snap up, if listed will demand a premium
 4 - The stuff produced in the 80s-90s can be pretty bad/inconsistent
  
 I think if someone ventures into those cheapest Russian tubes, first you need to get a box of several pairs. Then only a couple won't be noisy. After that the ones that do work may die prematurely. My take away from it right now is that the subject is too deep for me to dive all the way into. I'm not going to pick up a pair on a whim because they're cheap.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I'm not going to pick up a pair on a whim because they're cheap.




They are cheap as no one buys them. It should tell ya something.


----------



## Krutsch

phase0 said:


> 2 - Some of the of the old NOS Russian tubes can be okay to good solid performers
> 3 - They have s*ome golden tubes people recognize and snap up*, if listed will demand a premium
> 4 - The *stuff produced in the 80s-90s can be pretty bad*/inconsistent
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with that statement. I have experimented with some Russians with the WA3 and was about to throw in the towel, until someone recommended a seller and a particular tube:
  
 6N23p REFLECTOR Single Wire Getter Post, Silver Shield '74. 
  
 These tubes turned out to be quite good - maybe not "holy grail" as someone described them, but good. 
 However, similar tubes from the '80s I tried out are some of the worst sounding driver tubes I own.


----------



## maheeinfy

musicman59 said:


> It seems to me that it could be a ground loop issue. Try lifting (use a cheater plug to eliminate the ground terminal in the 3 prong plugs) the ground on both the DAC and the amp.



This didnt work. 
I rarely go past 11' clock on volume, so this hum hasn't been a big issue.


----------



## phase0

Krutsch,
  
 I did like someone here recommended and contacted some tube sellers for advice. One of them suggested I try Melz:
  


> I would recommend trying these:
> [link to ebay]Matched Pair MELZ NOS 6N8S/6SN7GT/ECC32 tubes Foil Getter Metal Base. Made in USSR in 1950s.
> Not well know, but have a fantastic sound with very strong bass and huge dynamic punch.


 
   
 I searched for Melz on head-fi for some background and found this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/1125#post_10228517
  
 Quote:


ozaudios said:


> Those MELZ tubes with holes in the plates were made for the USSR Military- never sold to the public -used for nuclear power plant control systems, and used on the Russian Space Station, and used for guidance systems on missiles. They are considered to be the highest quality tube ever made in the USSR, they were expensive to build, and were only used for special military purposes.


 
  
 I need to stop buying tubes this is getting out of control. I'm going to try them. Price was approx $88. It sounds to me on my brief search that these would be the kind of Russian tube you would seek after if you're going to try them out.
  
 This link has a few comments on the Melz 6SN7 that are very favorable
http://www.tubemaze.info/melz-6n8s6sn7-gray-plates-holes-in-plate/


----------



## Bitten by Bug

FWIW, my limited nOOb rectifier rolling experience with the WA6SE has shown that the £90 Mullard cv593 gz32 to be most to my taste right out of the box with stock drivers. The £18.50 Brimar 5z4gy is a worthy contender. I have stocked backups of both. With high hopes for SP but have read burn-in claims of 150 to 250 hours. With all these other nice sounding valves, plus others I am auditioning, wonder if I will give it chance to burn in, ha ha.
  
 Hope you achieve success with the non-traditional valves.
  
 And I hope I don't wear out the sockets swaping tubes!
  
 A little OT: I did make a significant improvement in SQ not related to rolling tubes... Moved from iPod Classic > WA6SE > cans  to  PC > Bifrost > WA6SE > cans.  Also included a mains line conditioner. Talk about a clean and clear sound! Another bit of the puzzle solution! Only bug in the ointment is the sound stage seems to have been adversely impacted.  Bifrost probably needs to burn in, I hope.
 Cheers


----------



## phase0

I'm a n00b too. I got that same Mullard cv593 gz32 for my WA5. Instant love. Once I sort out my favorite driver then I might consider getting a gz34 or another gz32 as a spare. I kept the Sylvania 6SN7. The other two 6SN7s I returned as defective. The Sylvanias are a little too laid back for my taste sometimes but I have found some things I like with them. My stock Hytron seem a little more present but they annoy me sometimes because I think they are a little bit noisey.


----------



## abvolt

phase0 said:


> I'm a n00b too. I got that same Mullard cv593 gz32 for my WA5. Instant love. Once I sort out my favorite driver then I might consider getting a gz34 or another gz32 as a spare. I kept the Sylvania 6SN7. The other two 6SN7s I returned as defective. The Sylvanias are a little too laid back for my taste sometimes but I have found some things I like with them. My stock Hytron seem a little more present but they annoy me sometimes because I think they are a little bit noisey.


 
  
 I'd also agree the gz32 is an excellent sounding rectifier, I would also encourage you to try the mullard gz 34 as well as the mullard  gz 30 both are soo fine sounding. I really enjoy the mullard gz 33 & 37's no doubt you'll be pleased with their sq as I am..Enjoy


----------



## Krutsch

phase0 said:


> Krutsch,
> 
> I did like someone here recommended and contacted some tube sellers for advice. One of them suggested I try Melz:
> 
> ...


 
  
 $88 for a tube is hardly "out of control", especially given that you already bought a WA5 (*that* expenditure is out of control).
 And, yes, I am jealous...


----------



## 3083joe




----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


>


 
 ???


----------



## podme

Just recently became a WA22 owner with upgraded rectifier/driver tubes. I had been on a not-too long search for a great amp to pair with my HD800 as the WA7 just didn't cut it at all. Now I have my WA7 doing temporary DAC duties (until my Zodiac+ comes in this week) and I am so glad I didn't give up on the 800s.
  
 It is just an absolute phenomenal sounding set of cans on the WA22. My only gripes with them is the fit but I'll reserve that for another post on another forum on another day.
  
 Tube rolling sounds like an awesome hobby (though seems awfully daunting given the 2,000 or so pages  in this thread discussing it!) but I'll stick with what I have for the time being while I get used to the amp.
  
 I've also got AD2000 and LCD-2 on order which should arrive this week.


----------



## jayband

podme said:


> Just recently became a WA22 owner with upgraded rectifier/driver tubes. I had been on a not-too long search for a great amp to pair with my HD800 as the WA7 just didn't cut it at all. Now I have my WA7 doing temporary DAC duties (until my Zodiac+ comes in this week) and I am so glad I didn't give up on the 800s.
> 
> It is just an absolute phenomenal sounding set of cans on the WA22. My only gripes with them is the fit but I'll reserve that for another post on another forum on another day.
> 
> ...


 
 congrats, I upgraded from WA3+ which is OTL and the WA22 is spectacular for the HD800 can. I am in the process of upgrading the caps with Jupiter and using Tung-sol 6FBG.... I want to do some AB comparison with the HD800S when it is avail in the US market....


----------



## Bitten by Bug

podme said:


> Just recently became a WA22 owner with upgraded rectifier/driver tubes.


 
 Congrats!  Enjoy!


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Congrats!  Enjoy!


 

 What he said. Enjoy ya amp.


----------



## Porteroso

phase0 said:


> Have any of you tried the Russian tubes? I see some stuff from over there is non-name and cheap. I heard they used vacuum tube tech longer than the US and also knew how to make tubes. Is any of that worth trying?


 
 The Melz 6H8C is pretty good. I have a pair, they are very clean. Probably really nice when used with a boomy rectifier. They need the 6SN7 adapter, so if you're not going down that road to begin with, I'm not sure I'd bother. They are not on the level of the NU or TS, nothing is, but still, I do think they are nice.
  
 edit: I see you've already bought some. Good luck! I hope you like them, post your impressions.


----------



## jhljhl

porteroso said:


> The Melz 6H8C is pretty good. I have a pair, they are very clean. Probably really nice when used with a boomy rectifier. They need the 6SN7 adapter, so if you're not going down that road to begin with, I'm not sure I'd bother. They are not on the level of the NU or TS, nothing is, but still, I do think they are nice.
> 
> edit: I see you've already bought some. Good luck! I hope you like them, post your impressions.


 

 Do you need an adapter for the 6h8c?
  
  
 I recommend audiophile fuses like the synergy red or audio horizon- there is a noticeable upgrade at the price of a tube.


----------



## phase0

krutsch said:


> $88 for a tube is hardly "out of control", especially given that you already bought a WA5 (*that* expenditure is out of control).
> And, yes, I am jealous...


 
  
 LOL this new tube shopping spree set me back approx $1500 so far (the EML 300B and the Mullard GZ32 are 1/2 of it). Funny story, don't be jealous. So I bought the WA5, enjoy it for a couple months, get laid off from job... Now how smart was that purchase?! Maybe I should have grown my savings some more like I told myself would be the responsible thing to do. But no! I have to be lurking and reading head-fi... Anyways I got rehired into a different team so the episode turned into essentially a paid vacation. Worked out okay for me. But all in all IDK how smart that was and this tube shopping spree either? Things can change in an instant from today to tomorrow. If things were a little different that fancy new toy suddenly seems like a foolish choice. Especially if months of unemployment drag on. But in the end I got this behemoth amp and I am enjoying the results. Learning challenges and all...
  
 Looking at this Russian tube the pic on eBay for what I'm getting doesn't have the holes punched down the sides but otherwise looks the same to me and has a metal base. Searching a little more some people were saying the metal base w/ the holes punched is a true "1578". The TubeMaze pic I looked up for their 1578 looks like a regular 6sn7 (looks similar but not exact to what I got on the eBay order). I saw a message on another forum someone ripped out their more expensive TungSol 6SN7 in preference of the Melz 6N8S/6SN7... Suffice to say IDK what is a true 1578 or if I got lucky to get one or if it's just a "pretty good" Russian tube I hope I like when I hear it.
  
 http://www.tubemaze.info/melz-15786n8s-gray-plates-metal-base/
  


porteroso said:


> The Melz 6H8C is pretty good. I have a pair, they are very clean. Probably really nice when used with a boomy rectifier. They need the 6SN7 adapter, so if you're not going down that road to begin with, I'm not sure I'd bother. They are not on the level of the NU or TS, nothing is, but still, I do think they are nice.
> 
> edit: I see you've already bought some. Good luck! I hope you like them, post your impressions.


 
  
 I don't think this one requires an adapter? If so what should I be looking for to find the correct item? I suppose I can contact WooAudio. The Tube Vendor said they're direct 6SN7 replacements. The picture does have 6H8C printed on the tube... Okay I won't plug these in until I double check about adapters.
  
 I was still hoping I can find a pair of TSRP 6F8G but I'm not there yet. I did find NURP 6C8G and 6F8G so I suppose either way I'm all set with those. I also found KenRad 6F8G. I wanted to try them since KenRad supposedly has great bass.


----------



## Porteroso

phase0 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > The Melz 6H8C is pretty good. I have a pair, they are very clean. Probably really nice when used with a boomy rectifier. They need the 6SN7 adapter, so if you're not going down that road to begin with, I'm not sure I'd bother. They are not on the level of the NU or TS, nothing is, but still, I do think they are nice.
> ...


 
 Ah, I see, you're using a WA5. I skipped right over that. Yes, the 6H8C is a 6SN7, just the Russian's name for it. Sorry, I need adapters for my WA6, so I wasn't thinking.
  
 I really am interested to see what it does in a WA5 though.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I was still hoping I can find a pair of TSRP 6F8G but I'm not there yet. I did find NURP 6C8G and 6F8G so I suppose either way I'm all set with those. I also found KenRad 6F8G. I wanted to try them since KenRad supposedly has great bass.




In regards to the KenRads you got to learn the construction. The KenRads use RCA plates. The ladder type. Not really that special. I suspect they are just a RCA rebrand. There are a few RCA plate structures. 6C8g and 6F8g are the most prolific tubes in rebranding. It is almost like the manufactures didn't want to make these tubes so they just got others to do contract manufacturing. Learning the construction and recognising them is the only way to go.

The only truely unique tube in this group is the Tung-Sol round plate. Even the next best NU uses a RCA plate.


----------



## phase0

porteroso said:


> Ah, I see, you're using a WA5. I skipped right over that. Yes, the 6H8C is a 6SN7, just the Russian's name for it. Sorry, I need adapters for my WA6, so I wasn't thinking.
> 
> I really am interested to see what it does in a WA5 though.


 
  
 I can hold my iPhone in between the headphones and make a Voice Memo for you if you'd like to hear what they sound like.
  




  
 I feel like I'm inadequate with descriptions but I'll give it a shot to post some impressions.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

phase0 said:


> I can hold my iPhone in between the headphones and make a Voice Memo for you if you'd like to hear what they sound like.


 

 LMAO - Thanks!


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> In regards to the KenRads you got to learn the construction. The KenRads use RCA plates. The ladder type. Not really that special. I suspect they are just a RCA rebrand. There are a few RCA plate structures. 6C8g and 6F8g are the most prolific tubes in rebranding. It is almost like the manufactures didn't want to make these tubes so they just got others to do contract manufacturing. Learning the construction and recognising them is the only way to go.
> 
> The only truely unique tube in this group is the Tung-Sol round plate. Even the next best NU uses a RCA plate.


 
  
 The picture I saw they looked different than the RCA Ladder plate I thought.
  

  
 How would you describe those? TubeMaze shows a round plate KenRad. I think those are them, but maybe there's a more proper way to describe them... My intent wasn't to buy a lot of RCA flat plat rebrand.


----------



## reeltime

phase0 said:


> I'm a n00b too. I got that same Mullard cv593 gz32 for my WA5. Instant love. Once I sort out my favorite driver then I might consider getting a gz34 or another gz32 as a spare. I kept the Sylvania 6SN7. The other two 6SN7s I returned as defective. The Sylvanias are a little too laid back for my taste sometimes but I have found some things I like with them. My stock Hytron seem a little more present but they annoy me sometimes because I think they are a little bit noisey.


 

 The metal base GZ34 (they are the tubes that date 1957 or earlier) are the best rectifier I've heard in the WA5.  A matched pair will set you back $500-$1000, but they're worth it to my ears.
  
 But many here keep "nudging" me to the Takatsuki 274B (I still haven't auditioned them, thank goodness).  I've resisted to date-- I'm sure they are excellent, but at over $1700/pr, they're hella-expensive.


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> The metal base GZ34 (they are the tubes that date 1957 or earlier) are the best rectifier I've heard in the WA5.  A matched pair will set you back $500-$1000, but they're worth it to my ears.
> 
> But many here keep "nudging" me to the Takatsuki 274B (I still haven't auditioned them, thank goodness).  I've resisted to date-- I'm sure they are excellent, but at over $1700/pr, they're hella-expensive.


 

 The power tubes 300b in wa5 make a higher difference to the sound signature than the rectifiers.  So should start with the 300b generally speaking.  Have you tried 422a? Or audiophile fuse life AH or synergistic research, hifi tuning etc?


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> The power tubes 300b in wa5 make a higher difference to the sound signature than the rectifiers.  So should start with the 300b generally speaking.  Have you tried 422a? Or audiophile fuse life AH or synergistic research, hifi tuning etc?


 
  
 I had a pair of 422a tubes at one point or another.  I've had the EML 5U4G, 274s in Sophia, and WE, CV593s, GZ32s, 596s, a bunch of GZ34 tubes of varying years.  The only tubes I've kept are the 1957 GZ34 metal base and the 596s.  
  
 I've settled on the Elrog 300B after owning the EML for a long time.  Apparently I have one of the only pair of Elrogs that haven't blown up.  I like them a lot.
  
 Most agree the Takatsuki 300B and 274s are the TOTL right now.  

 For my money the driver makes the least impact one the WA5 (and WA5LE). The only drivers I can say avoid at all costs are the 6GT7 and the Treasure 2 CV181s-- they are crunchy and awful. I've got a pair of RCA  VT99s and NU 6F8Gs waiting for an adapter. 
  
 I don't carry a large tube inventory.  I find something I like and I tend to stay there and sell off the rest.


----------



## leftside

reeltime said:


> I had a pair of 422a tubes at one point or another.  I've had the EML 5U4G, 274s in Sophia, and WE, CV593s, GZ32s, 596s, a bunch of GZ34 tubes of varying years.  The only tubes I've kept are the 1957 GZ34 metal base and the 596s.
> 
> I've settled on the Elrog 300B after owning the EML for a long time.  Apparently I have one of the only pair of Elrogs that haven't blown up.  I like them a lot.
> 
> ...


 

 I've also just purchased a WA22 and have been buying a lot of tubes lately. Some are very expensive. I don't plan on having a large tube inventory either. Perhaps 3 sets of each of driver/power/rectifier. Once I find the sets I'm most happy with I'll sell off the rest. My initial thoughts are that spending $200 on a pair of drivers, $200 on a pair of power and $200 - $250 on a rectifier is more than sufficient. With a WA22 costing $2000, I don't think this is too much "extra" to spend. Of course I might change my mind after I plug in my Mullard ECC32's, Western 421A's, and Cossor 53KU. I'm posting my thoughts on the Woo WA22 tube rolling thread. It's more specific than this thread.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> The picture I saw they looked different than the RCA Ladder plate I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> How would you describe those? TubeMaze shows a round plate KenRad. I think those are them, but maybe there's a more proper way to describe them... My intent wasn't to buy a lot of RCA flat plat rebrand.


 
  
 ^ This is a version of a RCA. Very hard to explain. I will do my best.
  
 RCA make 3 plates:
  
 This which is the same as the KenRads. I have seen them as others as well. Especially Sylvania. Average sound.
  

  
 This which is the same plates used in the NU. The NU has support rods and the plates are spaced differently. This RCA is my third favorite. It is a nice sounding tube. Nu is better tho. This RCA is so often rebadged. They made it for everyone.
  

  
 Then the ladder type. Often smoked glass. Nice looking tube. Very average sound. Not too exciting.
  

  
 The NU that uses the RCA round plate. My second favorite tube. See the support rods that make it different from the RCA.
  

  
  
 Then there is the Sylvania square plate. Not my favorite. Probably at the bottom. Big rebrand. Seen it as everything. Even Tung-Sol demanding $300 a set.
  

  
 Lastly my favorite. Tung-Sol Round Plate. I haven't seen a rebadge. Be aware that I have seen Tung-Sol as RCA ladder and Sylvania square plate tho. Sellers demand a premium and only the roundplate is worth the $$'s.
  

  
 Construction is your only guide. I don't even look at the branding. It means nothing. The tube manufacturers were in a massive orgy. Mixing and matching everywhere.


----------



## TonyNewman

My 2 cents - having tried almost everything - TS RP and NUs are worth your time. Almost anything else is probably not worth your time (note that I have not heard some of the uber rare and expensive tubes - like the Mullard - these could be on a par (or even better) than the NU or TS RP - I can't say).
  
 If you want the ultimate driver for transparency, then the C3G is hard to beat (either via adapters or an amp that is built for them).


----------



## phase0

Badas: Thanks for the education.
  
 So essentially the Ken-Rad is an RCA round plate re-badge and in your opinion not really remarkable. Meanwhile in searching around I had read some positive feedback on them (vs the flat plate). I thought since some comments said they're rare and decent I should get a pair and try them out since I saw some for sale. It's possible/likely I over-paid considering they really just RCA. Seems like I really should just turn around and send these back.
  
 Like a few others said I don't really want to have some massive tube collection. I'm on a shopping spree to gain some experience but I really only want to hang on to what I like best. The rest will either be returned or resold depending on policy/time frame etc.
  
 I'm a little disappointed that the member who was listing a pair of TSRP never responded to me. I've been chatting with a tube seller and today he told me he found another TSRP (makes a pair) in his inventory and said they test okay for a matched pair. Hopefully I'm getting the real deal but I'll refer to your pics. I'm tentatively excited that I may have scored here. I also have a set of NU 6F8G and 6C8G on the way. I ordered the 6F8G when you said I should get those. Sometime after, I then heard some people said it's actually noisy in the WA5. I'll try it since I already ordered it. I assume I can return them if they're noisy.
  
 I'm hoping to have my EML 300B in hand tomorrow. That should be a big deal over the Psvane.


----------



## abvolt

Though's tubes are very average compared to say a mullard ecc31 or 35 imo I've owned  & sold all of them..save your self some $$ get the right driver tubes..


----------



## TonyNewman

phase0 said:


> ... I ordered the 6F8G when you said I should get those. Sometime after, I then heard some people said it's actually noisy in the WA5. I'll try it since I already ordered it. I assume I can return them if they're noisy....


 
  
 If you get stuck with the NU 6F8Gs _*and *_they are noisy in your WA5, drop me a PM and I can do you a good deal for a pair of NOS NU 6C8Gs.
  
 The 6C8G, with the higher gain, tends to work better in the WA5, but please test first - the 6F8Gs might work fine for you (or you might get a refund).


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Badas: Thanks for the education.
> 
> So essentially the Ken-Rad is an RCA round plate re-badge and in your opinion not really remarkable. Meanwhile in searching around I had read some positive feedback on them (vs the flat plate). I thought since some comments said they're rare and decent I should get a pair and try them out since I saw some for sale. It's possible/likely I over-paid considering they really just RCA. Seems like I really should just turn around and send these back.
> 
> ...




I would rank them like this. Remember just my opinion:

1. Tung-Sol round plate. Gives you everything. 
2. NU with the suport rods. Not far off TSRP. Either would satisfy. 
3. RCA with the same plates as the NU. Sound is tad leaner than NU.
4. RCA round plates close together. Like the KenRad.
5. RCA flat plate. Nice but a serious treble roll.
6. Sylvania square plate. Not a fan of Sylvania. This one is not too bad tho.

All of the above beat my favorite 6SN7. The war years RCA grey glass. 

Give the KenRads a try. You may really enjoy. Remember we are all different. I remember it being fairly pleasant and didn't do anything overly wrong.


----------



## Badas

​Listening to:






Geez. This lady makes her albums just for tubes. Nothing like it.


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> ???



$88 tubes being out or control.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> ​Listening to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Enjoy her too.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ​ Listening to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And that Album cover is kinda chubby inducing


----------



## 3083joe

tonynewman said:


> And that Album cover is kinda chubby inducing


----------



## phase0

Cool. Thanks for all the inputs and advice.
  
 I got my EML 300B plugged in today. Wow. I don't know what to say. It changed the sound. Should improve with burn in. They said only run for 4 hours max during the burn in for best long term performance.
  
 So I was chatting with someone when I first started listening. Trying to put the words to what I'm hearing. It's thick, rich, smooth, very detailed, bass is nice and present. The space is really big. It reminds me of being up on top of a mountain with a great view surveying a huge expanse. The percussion and bass seems nice and punchy with some good impact. Very pleasant deep sounds. Seems like it still has a silky softness too. Like being wrapped in a soft blanket. I want to melt in my chair and float away. It seems like overall it has a mellow/laid back or smooth feel to it. Some things aren't as sharp or harsh like if I were listening to it through the DAC headphone out.
  
 A couple things I've been going back to recently in listening that I'm enjoying:
 Massive Attack - Mezzanine
 Blue Planet Corporation - Blue Planet (Especially Crystal and Arcana)
 Azam Ali - Elysium for the Brave (Especially In Other Worlds)
  
 Really a few things really stuck out to me like Massive Attack - Dissolving Girl, really paying attention to the vocals and the space around it with the effects. Something about it just makes me feel almost faint like I'm going to start spinning and fall down. The next track The Man Next Door those drums punched and the bass was nice. Seems like I can feel it.
  
 I wonder if it's really an improvement or just slightly different, like different flavors of ice cream but they're all tasty (versus the other tubes or what I pulled with Psvane). Listening to Beth Gibbons and all the detail coming from the acoustic guitar with the squeaks and slides sound really visceral like I'm right there. Anyways I like it. Some other day maybe I'll try to swap back to Psvane. I'm sure this is better, new toy excitement and cost justification along the way, I hope it's more than just that. I think it is but it's always hard to find the words.
  
 Now just need to get some driver tubes to arrive... I think in the end the tube search frustration will be justified, with the nice results. This is really fantastic.


----------



## leftside

Funny, I was also listening to Mezzanine tonight as well as I was swapping between the Sophia Princess and the EML 5U4G. I can understand what you are saying. Stand out track for me tonight was Inertia Creeps. On other nights it might be another track. Btw, I left the EML 5U4G in the WA22. I just felt the bass was a little tighter.
  
 My other tubes should start arriving tomorrow...


----------



## Bitten by Bug

abvolt said:


> I'd also agree the gz32 is an excellent sounding rectifier, I would also encourage you to try the mullard gz 34 as well as the *mullard  gz 30 both are soo fine sounding*. I really enjoy the mullard gz 33 & 37's no doubt you'll be pleased with their sq as I am..Enjoy


 

 You are spot on!  Mullard GZ30 arrived today. Mounted about 30 minutes ago.  WOW!  This one very special valve is "soo fine sounding."


----------



## jhljhl

There's a Woo Audio WA-234 on sale on Audiogon.  That's something rare?


----------



## abvolt

bitten by bug said:


> You are spot on!  Mullard GZ30 arrived today. Mounted about 30 minutes ago.  WOW!  This one very special valve is "soo fine sounding."


 
 yes sir one of my favorite inexpensive rectifiers..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> yes sir one of my favorite inexpensive rectifiers..


 

 I have to try one now. Langrex???
  
 Edit: No Langrex doesn't have them.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> yes sir one of my favorite inexpensive rectifiers..


 

 What are they like compared to the Brimar 5Z4GY?


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I have to try one now. Langrex???
> 
> Edit: No Langrex doesn't have them.


 

 Hi,  I got mine here and also got these from him too   Edit: I do not have enough time on either to give a good comparison, sorry.  Maybe someone else can chime in.


----------



## leftside

I found Langrex to be useless. Didn't response to two of my emails.


----------



## phase0

I got the Russian Melz 6SN7 tonight. So far this is the best 6SN7 I've heard. The bad news is they're noisy. One is worse than the other. I can't handle it. I have to return them. Barring the noise issue, these were really nice sound. I'd probably be happy to run with them.
  
 I got the KenRad 6F8G also. I made it about 5-10 minutes and a bunch of noise is showing up in one channel. Really bad. Until then it sounded okay. They started off no noise. Sounded really clean. It seemed like maybe a little extra mid-range emphasis but overall I thought it was enjoyable. Didn't get to listen to much with them. I suppose if they're not going to work I need to send them back. The one that is more noisy was a comparably loose fit in the socket. Not like how snug all of the other tubes are. Otherwise coming right after the Russian tubes I thought these were comparable but I didn't get to listen long enough to really make a judgement, they could have been as good or better than the Russian tubes or almost as good.
  
 I got 1 genuine TungSol Round Plate 6F8G in hand... Tried to replace the not working KenRad just to see if the TS works. I hear some faint static like that really quiet background his. No sound.
  
 I was gonna ask is it just me? But then the EML 300B, the Mullard GZ32 and two sets of 6SN7s are all solid so I don't think it's me causing this. I still have to try out the National Union 6C8G, got those today too. I thought some of this like the KenRad are NOS. I'm almost afraid to plugin the NU. I really want them to work and be sweet.


----------



## Stereolab42

I have a bunch of 1950s Melz and they are dead-quiet. You may have dirty socket or tube pins, pick up a tube cleaning kit and have at it. You should also be using socket savers if you're going to roll a lot.


----------



## phase0

Can you point me in the direction of where to get those? I don't even know what a socket saver is. I could buy that some of the pins are dirty. Some of them do look like they could be cleaned. My amp in about 6 months old, and I didn't change out tubes until in the last couple weeks. I think the sockets are clean but you know, maybe I should try to clean them cause I have been plugging some really old stuff into them.
  
 Edit: I'll add on. I plugged in the NU 6C8G. So far... happiness. I got almost 5 min on them. These are sounding real nice. No noise issues that I can detect.


----------



## reeltime

tonynewman said:


> If you get stuck with the NU 6F8Gs _*and *_they are noisy in your WA5, drop me a PM and I can do you a good deal for a pair of NOS NU 6C8Gs.
> 
> The 6C8G, with the higher gain, tends to work better in the WA5, but please test first - the 6F8Gs might work fine for you (or you might get a refund).


 

 I have NU 6F8Gs on the way from Italy in the next few weeks.  Hope they're nice.  All of the Tung Sol's on eBay are square plate.  I wrote the seller.


----------



## phase0

Quote:


reeltime said:


> I have NU 6F8Gs on the way from Italy in the next few weeks.  Hope they're nice.  All of the Tung Sol's on eBay are square plate.  I wrote the seller.


 
  
 It's frustrating LOL.
  
 Well the NU 6C8G I have are going solid for 20 minutes approx. I can almost say it's game over with these. I like em. I hope the 6F8G work too because there's a few of those out there for sale and I'd like some insurance stock for the years ahead. If the TungSol are as good or better I still hope I can end up with a working pair. Otherwise a couple NU pairs will last a good long while.
  
 I'd keep the Melz if I can just clean the pins and that fixes them. I'm worried that if I don't figure those out ASAP I won't be able to return them. I wonder if it's worth it to try and set the pins in white vinegar over night? Thinking something acidic should help to clean them but vinegar might not be good enough.
  
 Edit: Want to add also I like these way more than the Sylvania 6SN7 and the Hytron 6SN7 I have.


----------



## Stereolab42

phase0 said:


> Can you point me in the direction of where to get those? I don't even know what a socket saver is. I could buy that some of the pins are dirty. Some of them do look like they could be cleaned. My amp in about 6 months old, and I didn't change out tubes until in the last couple weeks. I think the sockets are clean but you know, maybe I should try to clean them cause I have been plugging some really old stuff into them.
> 
> Edit: I'll add on. I plugged in the NU 6C8G. So far... happiness. I got almost 5 min on them. These are sounding real nice. No noise issues that I can detect.


 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-SKGXMDBULK-Deoxit-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Gold-plated-tube-saver-adapter-for-EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6L6-5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-UX4-Gold-plated-tube-saver-adapter-for-WE300B-2A3-811-101D-/201198710749?hash=item2ed860afdd:g:t3QAAOSwY45UROQJ


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I found Langrex to be useless. Didn't response to two of my emails.




I contacted James at Langrex this afternoon. I have two Mullard GZ30's on the way. They have always been quick for me.



phase0 said:


> Can you point me in the direction of where to get those? I don't even know what a socket saver is. I could buy that some of the pins are dirty. Some of them do look like they could be cleaned. My amp in about 6 months old, and I didn't change out tubes until in the last couple weeks. I think the sockets are clean but you know, maybe I should try to clean them cause I have been plugging some really old stuff into them.
> 
> Edit: I'll add on. I plugged in the NU 6C8G. So far... happiness. I got almost 5 min on them. These are sounding real nice. No noise issues that I can detect.




I took this photo now. Showing my socket saves and DeOxit cleaning kit. Both are a must. Socket saves are all about wreck the saves by pulling tubes in and out. Don't wreck your socket. DeOxit has fixed a lot of noisy tubes.



The NU 6C8g is a endgame tube. So very nice. NU 6F8g has a history of being noisy in the WA5. In the WA22 it is quiet.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> I contacted James at Langrex this afternoon. I have two Mullard GZ30's on the way. They have always been quick for me.


 
 It must just be me then. Or perhaps the tubes I enquired about they don't have in stock.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> It must just be me then. Or perhaps the tubes I enquired about they don't have in stock.




They have always replied to tubes not in stock to me. Maybe there is server problems? Try a different contact address.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> They have always replied to tubes not in stock to me. Maybe there is server problems? Try a different contact address.


 

 Must be me then  I emailed them and used the contact form on their site. I've got most of the tubes I want now, so not a big issue.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> I contacted James at Langrex this afternoon. I have two Mullard GZ30's on the way. They have always been quick for me.
> I took this photo now. Showing my socket saves and DeOxit cleaning kit. Both are a must. Socket saves are all about wreck the saves by pulling tubes in and out. Don't wreck your socket. DeOxit has fixed a lot of noisy tubes.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure I'd agree that the nu 6c8g's would be an endgame driver tube especially after you've listened to say a mullard ecc31 or 35 I've sold all my ts 6f8g ,nu 6c8g's after getting the 2 mullards there's really no comparison imo, you really should check them out..Enjoy


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Not sure I'd agree that the nu 6c8g's would be an endgame driver tube especially after you've listened to say a mullard ecc31 or 35 I've sold all my ts 6f8g ,nu 6c8g's after getting the 2 mullards there's really no comparison imo, you really should check them out..Enjoy



Are with you. Once I went with ecc35s I'm sold 100%


----------



## phase0

abvolt said:


> Not sure I'd agree that the nu 6c8g's would be an endgame driver tube especially after you've listened to say a mullard ecc31 or 35 I've sold all my ts 6f8g ,nu 6c8g's after getting the 2 mullards there's really no comparison imo, you really should check them out..Enjoy


 
  
 Do you know if these are straight compatible with the WA5? While I'm falling down the rabbit hole and buying everything in sight to try it out... I may as well look into this.
  
 I stayed up really late last night listening to the NU 6C8G. I really like them compared to everything else so far that I've heard. I listened to a bunch of Portishead and I've never heard it sound so good before. I know this is all kind of chasing the unicorn. I know I said I want pretty good and it doesn't have to be the best. In that sense I'm happy to stop right here. If Mullard ECC31 and 35 work in the WA5 and are on the same level, then I'm interested here too because I don't have any backups/extras of the 6C8G right now.


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> Are with you. Once I went with ecc35s I'm sold 100%


 
  
 Dude you're the one that sold me on the 31's after saying for the $ you really can't get a better sound so I had to try them at first listen omg my jaw dropped the sq was far superior to any other driver tube I'd listened to, after the 35's i'm not really sure one can get better sq..Enjoy and thanks for you're impressions I'm sold..


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Dude you're the one that sold me on the 31's after saying for the $ you really can't get a better sound so I had to try them at first listen omg my jaw dropped the sq was far superior to any other driver tube I'd listened to, after the 35's i'm not really sure one can get better sq..Enjoy and thanks for you're impressions I'm sold..



Yes the 31s are great. 
35s are best to me. No going back.


----------



## leftside

Do you need an adapter for the ECC35 for the WA22? I have an adapter for the ECC31.


----------



## 3083joe

No 
Direct replacement


----------



## leftside

You just beat me by 1 minute to answering my own question  I was trawling through the old posts and saw this:
  


aussie lou said:


> Joe, will the same adapter allow for ECC31, 32, 33 and 35's for use in the WA22 or are separate adapters required?


 

 I'm not Joe, but you'll only need adapters for the ECC31's. The rest are plug n play


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> I contacted James at Langrex this afternoon. I have two Mullard GZ30's on the way. They have always been quick for me.
> I took this photo now. Showing my socket saves and DeOxit cleaning kit. Both are a must. Socket saves are all about wreck the saves by pulling tubes in and out. Don't wreck your socket. DeOxit has fixed a lot of noisy tubes.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Where did you get your socket savers from? eBay? Tube Mongers?


----------



## 3083joe

Got mine from tubemongers


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Where did you get your socket savers from? eBay? Tube Mongers?




eSlay.


----------



## phase0

I ordered the Socket Savers and the Deoxit. From what I have available... I used rubbing alcohol to try and clean the pins. It actually greatly improved the situation with noisy tubes. I'll keep the KenRads, I have to turn the volume up a little higher with them but I thought they sounded great too. I'm going to return the Melz 6SN7. They're nice and all but I am preferring the 6C8G and 6F8G. I think it sounds better. I didn't get completely rid of the noise but the cleaning massively improved the situation so I bet the Deoxit would solve it.
  
 I talked to the tube seller with the Tung-Sols. He said a lot of these tube comparisons aren't even valid. Need to test the sets with equipment and get two different sets of tubes that test as close as possible and then you're hearing the difference between the tubes. IDK what to say. I think I'm developing a preference over 6SN7. I doubt all these tubes sound the same. People get their preferences for a reason after listening to tubes. I think he wanted me to listen to them and maybe decide to keep them. But I figured the point of the exercise was to get the real TSRP and if not then walk away. I got the set of National Union and I'm happy. No sense in paying the TSRP premium for FP then.
  
 Edit: Rather than double post I'll add on to this...
  
 So I went back to my Cowon portable which I was complaining sounds great [LOL] and is much cheaper than my desktop setup which I thought was only a little bit better. After spending some time and coming back to the desktop I'm blown away. These new tubes are such a huge improvement it's jaw dropping. It's not even funny. The Cowon still sounds good with my LCD-XC. I like the Mach3bass. The desktop setup just seems to have a bigger wider broader sound field. It's got so much more clarity and air. Like taking opaque plastic off the door and opening to the outside for fresh air. The bass is more controlled and well articulated. I thought the Cowon had a lot more bass but I just push the volume up on the WA5 it seems like I have plenty of it with a better clarity of the tone and just as much impact.
  
 I think I may be in audio Nirvana here. I have a hard time imagining it getting any better than this. I heard the Abyss headphones at Canjam last year. I can grant it may be better than my Audeze, but I didn't think it was really that much better. Not to justify spending $5k. So IDK about any other upgrades. I'm really really impressed and happy with my results right now. I really appreciate the time you guys took to offer solid suggestions. If I could do backflips I would be. This is so good.


----------



## asxtan

I just received a WA22 secondhand and it is sounding great so far.  I have some tubes that I am testing out.
  
 Quick question for Badas, do you use the same tube saver for all 5 sockets since it has the same pin out?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-Gold-plated-tube-saver-adapter-for-EL34-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6L6-5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479?hash=item2c7f005607:g:gsQAAOSwPcVVmj7t&rmvSB=true
  
 Is this tube saver ok or do you have a different recommendation based on what you have?
  
 Last question I have a pair westinghouse 7236 tube that came with the amp.  Does anyone know if these are rebranded sylvania's?  There are no markings on them at all.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## 3083joe

asxtan said:


> I just received a WA22 secondhand and it is sounding great so far.  I have some tubes that I am testing out.
> 
> Quick question for Badas, do you use the same tube saver for all 5 sockets since it has the same pin out?
> 
> ...



All sockets are the same. So same savers
. 
Octal base


----------



## asxtan

Thanks for quick response!


----------



## Badas

asxtan said:


> I just received a WA22 secondhand and it is sounding great so far.  I have some tubes that I am testing out.
> 
> Quick question for Badas, do you use the same tube saver for all 5 sockets since it has the same pin out?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> All sockets are the same. So same savers
> .
> Octal base


 
  
 ^
  
 Yes. That is correct. All savers are the same. The ones I have and in your link are very well made. Look nice (I like the looks of 3083joe's as well) and very good service from the seller. I can't fault. I purchased 7 so if I break a pin at any stage I can just remove the save and I have 2 spare to replace with.


----------



## serman005

I am about to take the Woo plunge--very excited about it.


----------



## joseph69

serman005 said:


> I am about to take the Woo plunge--very excited about it.


 
 What are you diving in to?


----------



## abvolt

Those are really cool socket savers I use the same ones..


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> Got mine from tubemongers


 
  
 Dude absolutely gorgeous..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Dude absolutely gorgeous..


 

 Yeah. I would like to listen to that WA22. He has rolled in some very nice tubes.
  
 Nice that we both agree on the TAK 274B tho.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Yeah. I would like to listen to that WA22. He has rolled in some very nice tubes.
> 
> Nice that we both agree on the TAK 274B tho.



Yes. Just sold my we274A in favor of the tak


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> Yes. Just sold my we274A in favor of the tak


 
  

  
 What are those devices around the tubes in that picture?
  
 I also ordered the socket savers from Tubemongers today. Not cheap (especially for 5), but they are running a 10% discount right now.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> Yeah. I would like to listen to that WA22. He has rolled in some very nice tubes.
> 
> Nice that we both agree on the TAK 274B tho.


 
  
 All I can say to that is "I'm definitely envious"..Enjoy


----------



## jhljhl

abvolt said:


> All I can say to that is "I'm definitely envious"..Enjoy


 
  
  


badas said:


> Yeah. I would like to listen to that WA22. He has rolled in some very nice tubes.
> 
> Nice that we both agree on the TAK 274B tho.


 
  


3083joe said:


> Yes. Just sold my we274A in favor of the tak


 
  

 Must now get tak 274b... must resist...  resistance is futile...


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> What are those devices around the tubes in that picture?
> 
> I also ordered the socket savers from Tubemongers today. Not cheap (especially for 5), but they are running a 10% discount right now.



The GEC 6as7s have rubber tube dampners
And the Ecc35s are herbies dampners


----------



## 3083joe

Here's the wa22 with the tak274B


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Must now get tak 274b... must resist...  resistance is futile...



850ish isn't bad for a tube like the tak


----------



## abvolt

Wow never seen a  tak274B sure is a fat bottle isn't it, very cool indeed..


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> 850ish isn't bad for a tube like the tak


 

 I gotta get 2 that's thing thing. lol.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I contacted James at Langrex this afternoon. I have two Mullard GZ30's on the way.


 




 Bravo!  Hope you enjoy! Looking forward to your report when ready!
  
 Oh and BTW anyone know if there is any difference between a Mullard printed GZ30 and a Mullard printed CV2748?


----------



## abvolt

It's the same tube and I agree he'll love there sound..


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Thank you for the response.  I have as yet to discover comprehensive reference sources for research and appreciate the help.
  
 Cheers!
  
  
  
  
 Edit: fir tyop


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Bravo!  Hope you enjoy! Looking forward to your report when ready!


 
  
  


abvolt said:


> It's the same tube and I agree he'll love there sound..


 
  
 I studied the construction yesterday and noted it is the same plate structure as the Mullard GZ32. Just in a smaller profile bottle. I would expect these to sound very similar to each other. Has anyone compared?


----------



## asxtan

Sorry another question for those with wa22.  I been reading backwards and it seems most people who had hum issues were hearing it through their headphones.  I hear a low audible hum coming from the transformer it seems.  No hum or hiss from headphones even at max volume with no music playing.  I have a little dot mk IV SE and that amp was completely silent.  I have a yaqin 300b integrated amp and I do have a low audible hum from the transformer too.  Just wondering with other owners do they notice any hum or is this normal?  I am still in process of rolling some tubes to see if that will affect the hum and placing the amp away from other electronics as well.   Thanks again in advance!


----------



## Badas

asxtan said:


> Sorry another question for those with wa22.  I been reading backwards and it seems most people who had hum issues were hearing it through their headphones.  I hear a low audible hum coming from the transformer it seems.  No hum or hiss from headphones even at max volume with no music playing.  I have a little dot mk IV SE and that amp was completely silent.  I have a yaqin 300b integrated amp and I do have a low audible hum from the transformer too.  Just wondering with other owners do they notice any hum or is this normal?  I am still in process of rolling some tubes to see if that will affect the hum and placing the amp away from other electronics as well.   Thanks again in advance!


 

 That is something I have always tried to figure out.
  
 Yes my WA22 transformers hum as well. I think it can be normal. Some hum and some don't. Mine is intermittent. It can be silent for an hour and then hum for 5 minutes then go silent again.
  
 When it hums I do hear it through the HP's. As far as I know it is not my tubes it seems to be the transformers or just one transformer.
  
 I have just kinda learned to deal with it. I don't hear it unless I pause the music. So it doesn't bother me too much.
  
 I wonder if this could improve over time? It seems to me that it is.
  
 I have not had the best luck with my WA22. Everything that could go wrong has. Mine is not too good with some power tubes either. They get noisy. I have just learned which ones are okay and which one are not.
 I have a feeling my WA22 was built in a rush and not finished to a high standard. Bit of a pity when I intend to use it for life.


----------



## joseph69

asxtan said:


> Sorry another question for those with wa22.  I been reading backwards and it seems most people who had hum issues were hearing it through their headphones.  I hear a low audible hum coming from the transformer it seems.  No hum or hiss from headphones even at max volume with no music playing.  I have a little dot mk IV SE and that amp was completely silent.  I have a yaqin 300b integrated amp and I do have a low audible hum from the transformer too.  Just wondering with other owners do they notice any hum or is this normal?  I am still in process of rolling some tubes to see if that will affect the hum and placing the amp away from other electronics as well.   Thanks again in advance!


 
 My WA6 transformer will hum with the SP-274B very low but never through the HP's. With all my other rectifier tubes the transformer is dead silent.


----------



## leftside

asxtan said:


> Sorry another question for those with wa22.  I been reading backwards and it seems most people who had hum issues were hearing it through their headphones.  I hear a low audible hum coming from the transformer it seems.  No hum or hiss from headphones even at max volume with no music playing.  I have a little dot mk IV SE and that amp was completely silent.  I have a yaqin 300b integrated amp and I do have a low audible hum from the transformer too.  Just wondering with other owners do they notice any hum or is this normal?  I am still in process of rolling some tubes to see if that will affect the hum and placing the amp away from other electronics as well.   Thanks again in advance!


 
 I have exactly the same issue as you, but I wasn't going to post until I tried more tubes. Here are my results of testing so far:
 - With just the rectifier installed there is no hum whatsoever
 - If I install the pair of power tubes OR the pair of driver tubes, the transformer generates a humming noise.
 - There is NO hum heard in the headphones. With music off even at max volume, there is no hum in the headphones
 - My amp is not close to other electronics
 - It generates this hum even if all source equipment is turned off
  
 The humming is loud enough to be annoying. I'm going to take mine into my local tech after I've tried a few more tubes, but I'm pretty certain it's not the tubes.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I have exactly the same issue as you, but I wasn't going to post until I tried more tubes. Here are my results of testing so far:
> - With just the rectifier installed there is no hum whatsoever
> - If I install the pair of power tubes OR the pair of driver tubes, the transformer generates a humming noise.
> - There is NO hum heard in the headphones. With music off even at max volume, there is no hum in the headphones
> ...


 
  
 Geez. Did you power it up with just a rectifier. I thought that would be risky.
  
 Sounds like my WA22. I think Woo's standards have been slipping. I bet there is a wire grounding somewhere in mine somewhere. That is what it sounds like to me. It sounds like the old fashion ground loop hum. Odd that it is a intermittent problem tho. I don't think Woo's transformers are as good as they say.


----------



## joseph69

Forgot to mention that I have used power/driver tubes which I did get humming through the HP;s but not the transformer…so in both my cases it was the tubes not the transformer.


----------



## asxtan

Badas, sorry to hear about your problems with your wa22.  I actually read a lot of your post on head-fi and on blu-ray.com, that help convince me to buy it.  Don't get me wrong I am still happy with the purchase.  The amp sounds great and like you said the hum doesn't bother me at all when music is playing.  Since I bought this second hand I just wanted to make sure this wasn't a problem and that I should consider returning it. 
  
 leftside, you turned on the amp without all the tubes inserted?  Is that safe to do, I didn't think that was ok. 
  
 From my testing the hum got lower when I switched to the SP-274B from stock shuguang 274b.  The hum also got lower when I switched out stock GE 6080 for westinghouse 7236.  Although with the westinghouse 7236 I think I get some feedback hiss from the headphones.  I only had a brief listen before work today so will test some more later.  I still have Tung Sol 7236 power tubes to test out. 
  
 Overall still very happy with the wa22 so far and I would say hum is lower than my 300b amp.  I have shuguang 300b tubes in that, and my gut tells me if I rolled some better tubes the hum might get better.  I'm thinking of the Genalex PX-300b tubes.  They seem to have decent reviews and good price to value ratio.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Forgot to mention that I have used power/driver tubes which I did get humming through the HP;s but not the transformer…so in both my cases it was the tubes not the transformer.


 

 You will not believe how many variants of power tubes I used in my WA22 tho. Just about every version and 90% of them would be noisy. Luckily I found a brand that was cheap and quiet plus I liked the sound. So I just use those.
  
 My WA22 was seriously not built well. I contacted Woo about it and they didn't want to know. Brushed me off multiple times.


----------



## asxtan

Are the power tubes the GE 6AS7GA from your signature, I'll keep an eye out for a pair to try.  I have a pair of NU round plate 6F8G on order and adapters from ebay coming.


----------



## Torq

joseph69 said:


> My WA6 transformer will hum with the SP-274B very low but never through the HP's. With all my other rectifier tubes the transformer is dead silent.


 

 I have the SP-274B (mesh) in my WA6 and I don't get any transformer hum even with my ear pressed to the housing.  No noise through the headphones either.
  
 WA6 is about a month old, the tube has about 80 hours on it so far.


----------



## Badas

asxtan said:


> Are the power tubes the GE 6AS7GA from your signature, I'll keep an eye out for a pair to try.  I have a pair of NU round plate 6F8G on order and adapters from ebay coming.


 

 Yes. The GE 6AS7GA are my favorites. Probably not every bodies but they work well for my taste.
  
 The NU's are nice. You should really hear an improvement.
  
 Here is a list of what I found worked and didn't work in my amp.
  
 GE 6080 stock tube: Fine
 GE 6AS7GA: Fine
 TS 7236: Fine
 Bendix 6080: Fine
 Thompson 6080: Fine
 Tung-Sol 6AS7G with no bottom flap: 50/50 half noisy, half quiet.
 Chatham 6AS7G: Fine
  
 Russian 6H13: Noisy
 RCA 6AS7G: Noisy (tried many different re-brands as well Sylvania, Raytheon and Tung-Sol)
 Mullard 6080: Noisy
 Sylvania 6080: Noisy
 Telefunkin 6080: Noisy
 GEC 6080: Noisy
  
 What annoys me is a lot of the noisy ones are labeled 6080 a direct drop in replacement. They should be quiet. All were purchased NOS. Things like the Mullard 6080 I purchased 3 sets to see if it was one set at fault. All were noisy. Some were better but not completely quiet.


----------



## Badas

torq said:


> I have the SP-274B (mesh) in my WA6 and I don't get any transformer hum even with my ear pressed to the housing.  No noise through the headphones either.
> 
> WA6 is about a month old, the tube has about 80 hours on it so far.


 

 Transformer hum is weird.
  
 It can be 100% quiet for a long time. Then for a few minutes it sounds like a trapped bee. Buzzing away. Then quiet again. It comes and goes. Some sessions I have are completely quiet.
  
 Which makes me think it is not a grounding issue. It just sounds like a ground loop hum. It is probably something worse like the caps not being able to handle a load.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> You will not believe how many variants of power tubes I used in my WA22 tho. Just about every version and 90% of them would be noisy. Luckily I found a brand that was cheap and quiet plus I liked the sound. So I just use those.
> 
> My WA22 was seriously not built well. I contacted Woo about it and they didn't want to know. Brushed me off multiple times.


 
 I only had a noise issue through my HP's with a pair of NU-6F8G…since then I've purchased another pair and they are dead quiet.
  
 Sorry to hear about the unfortunate situation with your WA22 and especially Woo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
 Quote:


torq said:


> I have the SP-274B (mesh) in my WA6 and I don't get any transformer hum even with my ear pressed to the housing.  No noise through the headphones either.
> 
> WA6 is about a month old, the tube has about 80 hours on it so far.


 
I never had an issue with the SP-274B until I recently when put it in about a month ago after not using it for a very long time.
 [size=x-small]Its not really a big deal, just slight humming from the transformer. I've recently switched back to my Brimar 5Z4G/Westinghouse 6FD7 combo with no noise [/size]sues[size=x-small] at all. Every once in a while I like to change my combos around.[/size]


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Transformer hum is weird.
> 
> *It can be 100% quiet for a long time. Then for a few minutes it sounds like a trapped bee. Buzzing away. Then quiet again. It comes and goes. Some sessions I have are completely quiet.*
> 
> Which makes me think it is not a grounding issue. It just sounds like a ground loop hum. It is probably something worse like the caps not being able to handle a load.


 
 This is exactly what my 274B does now.
 But no other rectifiers do it?


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I only had a noise issue through my HP's with a pair of NU-6F8G…since then I've purchased another pair and they are dead quiet.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the unfortunate situation with your WA22 and especially Woo.
> 
> ...


 

 It is not too big a deal also.
  
 I eventually found power tubes that worked and I stocked up on them. My amp is mostly quiet. I can hear the transformer hum in the HP's when it happens. However it is only heard if the music is stopped.
  
 So the attitude I have is "I know it has warts just work with it". With that in mind I find the WA22 satisfying. It really does have a beautiful sound.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> This is exactly what my 274B does now.
> But no other rectifiers do it?


 

 I've never thought about it being the rectifier. I'm using the TAK 274B.
  
 I might switch out to the Brimar 5Z4GY or Mullard GZ32 that I have in stock and see if the transformer hum goes.


----------



## leftside

asxtan said:


> leftside, you turned on the amp without all the tubes inserted?  Is that safe to do, I didn't think that was ok.


 
  
 It helped me narrow down the problem, but I won't be doing it again. The problem looks like it is with the transformer and not the tubes. Luckily there is no humming in the headphones. I had a couple of tubes that did cause a hum in the headphones initially, so I threw them out.
  
 The hum starts after the unit powers up properly, and then it stays. Makes no difference to the hum no matter how long or short the unit is left on for. Same hum with volume at 0 as it is with the volume at max. Ground issue is my bet.
  
 I know a great technician, so I'll be taking it in at the weekend for him to take a look. He loves my McIntosh gear and says it is very well made. Will be interesting to see what he says about the WA22. I'll report back.


----------



## leftside

Maybe we need to use something like this? In the reviews one guy said it fixed his WA22:
 http://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-Hum-Voltage-Filter/product-reviews/B0002E4YI8


----------



## jhljhl

joseph69 said:


> This is exactly what my 274B does now.
> But no other rectifiers do it?


 

 I had that issue with sophia 274b in a wa22. Just thought it was the tube.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Maybe we need to use something like this? In the reviews one guy said it fixed his WA22:
> http://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-Hum-Voltage-Filter/product-reviews/B0002E4YI8


 

 Interesting product. I'm going to look into it.
  
 I might check to see if my power cord has a ground pin. If it does I'm going to cut it off. Sometimes this helps (especially with subwoofers).


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I studied the construction yesterday and noted it is the same plate structure as the Mullard GZ32. Just in a smaller profile bottle. I would expect these to sound very similar to each other. Has anyone compared?


 

 Good job!  How did you perform this study? What on-line tools assisted in this?
  
 I am still too much of a Rookie to provide a meaningful comparison.  FWIW in that context, my impression is that I really, really like the sound of each. If, at my current experience level, I had to choose only one rectifier it will be Mullard GZ32 followed by Mullard GZ30. A more distant third place is a toss-up between the non-sexy metal RCA JAN 5Z4 and the Brimar 5Z4GY.  Both of which are quite nice too. The Shuguang 274B and Sophia Princess 274B are not burned in and at this writing not even in the same league....  Of course I am the FNG and along with the tubes I have not _burned in _yet.  As my experience and skills improve, my tastes and opinions may shift. These opinions are via WA6SE with HD650.  And of course YMMV. 
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Good job!  How did you perform this study? What on-line tools assisted in this?
> 
> I am still too much of a Rookie to provide a meaningful comparison.  FWIW in that context, my impression is that I really, really like the sound of each. If, at my current experience level, I had to choose only one rectifier it will be Mullard GZ32 followed by Mullard GZ30. A more distant third place is a toss-up between the non-sexy metal RCA JAN 5Z4 and the Brimar 5Z4GY.  Both of which are quite nice too. The Shuguang 274B and Sophia Princess 274B are not burned in and at this writing not even in the same league....  Of course I am the FNG and along with the tubes I have not _burned in _yet.  As my experience and skills improve, my tastes and opinions may shift. These opinions are via WA6SE with HD650.  And of course YMMV.
> 
> Enjoy!


 
  
 I am very familiar with the Mullard GZ32. I have studied it's plate structure in the past. Not a lot of people probably know this. However I have posted it in the past. There is a Mazda tube GZ32 that has an extremely close in plate structure. Avoid them they are awful. You have to look for the cut marks which look like bites out of the corners. That is a blackburn / Mullard produced tube. There is also a Philips Miniwatt GZ32 that looks exactly the same as the Mullard. Also has the same factory codes. Often has a black bass. I have 3 Mullards and Two Philips. They are the same. The Philips can be had for a lot cheaper.
 I recognized the plates immediately when looking at the Mullard GZ30. They are exactly the same.
 I do suspect they sound similar. I shall know soon enough.
  
 The Shuguang 274B is really not much use other than burning an amp in and the Sophia Princess 274B is pretty to look at but not much in the sound department to my understanding (I've never used one).


----------



## 3083joe

bitten by bug said:


> Good job!  How did you perform this study? What on-line tools assisted in this?
> 
> I am still too much of a Rookie to provide a meaningful comparison.  FWIW in that context, my impression is that I really, really like the sound of each. If, at my current experience level, I had to choose only one rectifier it will be Mullard GZ32 followed by Mullard GZ30. A more distant third place is a toss-up between the non-sexy metal RCA JAN 5Z4 and the Brimar 5Z4GY.  Both of which are quite nice too. The Shuguang 274B and Sophia Princess 274B are not burned in and at this writing not even in the same league....  Of course I am the FNG and along with the tubes I have not _burned in_ yet.  As my experience and skills improve, my tastes and opinions may shift. These opinions are via WA6SE with HD650.  And of course YMMV.
> 
> Enjoy!



Personally for lower cost recitifiers the Brimar 5r4 has the best sound, hands down.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Personally for lower cost recitifiers the Brimar 5r4 has the best sound, hands down.


 

 That's what I think as well.
  
 I kinda introduced the Brimar 5Z4GY. I did a big push on it and got Tony to listen as well. We think it is excellent bang for the buck.
 What took me by surprise tho is I lent the Mullard GZ32 and Brimar to a friend recently. He said the Mullard was the best. So it shows we are all different.
  
 Comparing to the very best I've heard the TAK 274B the Brimar is just a tad leaner and the treble is not as sweet. Not bad for a budget tube.
  
 Edit: Opps you said 5R4 not 5Z4. My bad.


----------



## Stereolab42

badas said:


> Interesting product. I'm going to look into it.
> 
> I might check to see if my power cord has a ground pin. If it does I'm going to cut it off. Sometimes this helps (especially with subwoofers).


 
  
 Are you saying you didn't try such steps to eliminate/rule out grounding/dirty power issues before now?


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Are you saying you didn't try such steps to eliminate/rule out grounding/dirty power issues before now?


 

 Of course I did.
  
 I moved amps to different locations around the house. Different plugs. Made sure there was no wi-fi interference. Nothing helped.
  
 I just can't remember if my power cord has a ground pin. I will check if it has.
  
 My issues are very unlikely to be a grounding issue. Grounding hum happens all the time. My issues are intermittent.
  
 Grounding is worth another look tho. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 It won't be dirty power. It is plugged into a power conditioner. Plus a 30A power socket* and I have good power. House was a new build in 2004.
  
 *My main Home Theater rack has dedicated 30A lines installed (times two). I need it for the Marantz 10 channel @ 140W each power amps I run.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> The Shuguang 274B is really not much use other than burning an amp in and the Sophia Princess 274B is pretty to look at but not much in the sound department to my understanding (I've never used one).


 
 I quite liked the sound of the Sophia Princess 274B.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> *My main Home Theater rack has dedicated 30A lines installed (times two). I need it for the Marantz 10 channel @ 140W each power amps I run.


 
 I thought I was going "big" with two 20A lines installed for my McIntosh amps


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I am very familiar with the Mullard GZ32. I have studied it's plate structure in the past. Not a lot of people probably know this. However I have posted it in the past. There is a Mazda tube GZ32 that has an extremely close in plate structure. Avoid them they are awful. You have to look for the cut marks which look like bites out of the corners. That is a blackburn / Mullard produced tube. There is also a Philips Miniwatt GZ32 that looks exactly the same as the Mullard. Also has the same factory codes. Often has a black bass. I have 3 Mullards and Two Philips. They are the same. The Philips can be had for a lot cheaper.
> I recognized the plates immediately when looking at the Mullard GZ30. They are exactly the same.
> I do suspect they sound similar. I shall know soon enough.
> 
> The Shuguang 274B is really not much use other than burning an amp in and the Sophia Princess 274B is pretty to look at but not much in the sound department to my understanding (I've never used one).


 
  
 Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge. I see what you mean.  Doing a side by side of the pair by eye, the gross dimensions of the collector plates are darn near the same.  Interestingly the GZ30 has larger 'bites' and of course the top horizontal plate is smaller in the GZ30 due to the smaller glass enclosure.  The 3 slits on the collector plates seem to be positioned the same and the same dimensions.  It may be optical illusion, and I did not pull out other examples for comparison, but it appears that GZ30 may be inserted into the top plate marginally deeper than the GZ32. There are two small copper colored 'bars' on top of the top plate on the GZ32 that are missing on the GZ30. So much for my cursory examination....
 Interesting.  This inspection has revealed that the top of the GZ30 has started to discolor right above the heaters with just 16 hours. Yeah, I keep an excel spreadsheet...
 You should have your questions answered when Langrex delivers.  Their shipments take about 2 weeks to get to me.  Both the GZ32 and GZ30 sounded great out of the box.....
 The Shuguang 274B is not suitable for detail and certainly not for critical listening to Jascha Heifetz - gag! Found that out yesterday. I have seem rumors that SP 274B can take 250 hours to come into its own. Had to pop it in to see if it did Heifetz any better, and it was not quite as bad, ha ha.  Funny thing, after about two hours playing, the tube either started to sound better or I had just gotten used to its shortcomings. <shrugs>
  
 The Brimar 5Z4GY is not my preference for HD650. The tube is better suited to HD598.
  
 Nice to learn about the Philips GZ32. Thanks. Mazda in tubes is French, is it not? Is it just their rendition of GZ32 or is there a general heads up in effect for most of their tubes?
 Cheers
  


3083joe said:


> Personally for lower cost recitifiers the Brimar 5r4 has the best sound, hands down.


 
 Cool.  Thanks!  It is now on my list to try.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I've never thought about it being the rectifier. I'm using the TAK 274B.
> I might switch out to the Brimar 5Z4GY or Mullard GZ32 that I have in stock and see if the transformer hum goes.


 
 Keep me posted because I put the Brimar 5Z4G in and there is no hum at all.
  


jhljhl said:


> I had that issue with sophia 274b in a wa22. Just thought it was the tube.


 
 The thing is I never had this issue with the SP274B until I recently put it in…them after changing it to the Brimar 5Z4G the WA6 is dead silent.
  


leftside said:


> I quite liked the sound of the Sophia Princess 274B.


 
 I enjoy it as well. 
 A big part of enjoying this tube is matching it with the right power/driver tubes/HP's.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

leftside said:


> I quite liked the sound of the Sophia Princess 274B.


 
  
 SP 274B is not too bad but it doesn't last long...darkens up quick.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

joseph69 said:


> Keep me posted because I put the Brimar 5Z4G in and there is no hum at all.
> 
> The thing is I never had this issue with the SP274B until I recently put it in…them after changing it to the* Brimar 5Z4G* the WA6 is dead silent.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi - You use the term Brimar 5Z4G, is there a difference between that and Brimar 5Z4G*Y*?


----------



## phase0

Any thoughts on Mullard GZ34 non-metal base? Looks like the metal base are more sought after. I suppose that answers the question in a round about way. Just wondering if it's worth try? I like my GZ32 with the brown base...
  
 So far still amazed by the new sound I have. Trying to adhere to the EML burn in rules. So outside of what I have on the WA5 now. I don't know that there's any more upgrade path unless I go for Taks or just experiment with more tubes.
  
 Sad to hear a couple of you guys have a hum issue on the WA22. Like to think the Woo shop is full of happy elves working carefully to the highest level of craftsmanship possible. I suppose you could haul it in to a CanJam and try to reproduce it for them.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Any thoughts on Mullard GZ34 non-metal base? Looks like the metal base are more sought after. I suppose that answers the question in a round about way. Just wondering if it's worth try? I like my GZ32 with the brown base...
> 
> So far still amazed by the new sound I have. Trying to adhere to the EML burn in rules. So outside of what I have on the WA5 now. I don't know that there's any more upgrade path unless I go for Taks or just experiment with more tubes.
> 
> Sad to hear a couple of you guys have a hum issue on the WA22. Like to think the Woo shop is full of happy elves working carefully to the highest level of craftsmanship possible. I suppose you could haul it in to a CanJam and try to reproduce it for them.


 
  
 The gz32 is a good tube with nice midrange adds body to the c3g because there is a gain drop in wa5le with adapter.  However the sound stage is a little smaller than the gz34.  If I could find a rectifier with midrange like the gz32 but with a wider sound stage then the c3g will really get more to its potential.
  
 Mullard gz34 is a good rectifier - a clean almost ss sound adds good bass punch but does not have the gz32 midrange sparkle.  The metal gz34 adds a more transparent holographic dimension to the sound with a liquid midrange- I thought it is more pronounced in the wa22 than in wa5le.  I really enjoy it the wa5le.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Hi - You use the term Brimar 5Z4G, is there a difference between that and Brimar 5Z4G*Y*?




Same tube.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Keep me posted because I put the Brimar 5Z4G in and there is no hum at all.




I will do.


----------



## thecrow

Hi Badas

I read you are planning to pick up a vega dac. 

Unless you're getting one nicely discounted, eg if Tony is passing it into you,see if you can do ME a favour and listen to the Metrum hex if there's any way you can

With the amanero USB upgrade

We had a meet here recently and the hex did get some positive reviews from a few others there than just me. 

I think you might be quite impressed and it might be a good fit for you 


The v281 was there too. As not connected to a premium dac but I can see why you liked it. However there's something to be said for these (woo) tube amps that you can roll tubes with


----------



## joseph69

bitten by bug said:


> Hi - You use the term Brimar 5Z4G, is there a difference between that and Brimar 5Z4G*Y*?


 
 Like @Badas say's, its the same tube.
 Didn't I recommend this tube to you from Langrex?


----------



## leftside

I'm very glad to report that moving my WA22 to a different circuit in the house completely eliminated the humming problem. The unit is now dead quiet! I seem to remember having problems with that circuit in the past. I'm going to get the electrician who installed my 20A circuit to come in and take a look.
  
 I'm amazed at how quiet this thing is when listening through headphones. Even with my preamp set to the max and the WA22 set to the max I can only very barely hear the tiny tiniest of hisses (with no music playing) when connected to the DAC or SACD player. Even from the turntable with a tube phono preamp the noise levels are non-existent until you get close to max volume. I'm getting more and more impressed with the WA22.


----------



## leftside

Anyone heard of Triotron tubes? Apparently they are rebranded Mullards.


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Hi @Badas
> 
> I read you are planning to pick up a vega dac.
> 
> ...


 

 Yip. You got it. I'm buying Tony's Vega.
  
 I've heard this on my rig before and I was able to switch between the Arcam and the Vega. The Vega lifted the sound a lot. I also like the filters that you can apply. Evidently filter four lets stacks of treble detail through but very little harshness. Sounds promising.
  
 I'm unable to give the Metrum Hex a listen. Options for listening are not good here.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I'm very glad to report that moving my WA22 to a different circuit in the house completely eliminated the humming problem. The unit is now dead quiet! I seem to remember having problems with that circuit in the past. I'm going to get the electrician who installed my 20A circuit to come in and take a look.
> 
> I'm amazed at how quiet this thing is when listening through headphones. Even with my preamp set to the max and the WA22 set to the max I can only very barely hear the tiny tiniest of hisses (with no music playing) when connected to the DAC or SACD player. Even from the turntable with a tube phono preamp the noise levels are non-existent until you get close to max volume. I'm getting more and more impressed with the WA22.


 
  
 That's great news. I'm not sure what is causing my hum. I will experiment over the next few weeks.
  
 I've got to pull my rack apart when I install the Vega DAC. So I will check the power cord as I do that.
  
 Not that it bothers me too much but eventually I would like to get it 100% right.


----------



## Torq

badas said:


> That's great news. I'm not sure what is causing my hum. I will experiment over the next few weeks.
> 
> I've got to pull my rack apart when I install the Vega DAC. So I will check the power cord as I do that.
> 
> Not that it bothers me too much but eventually I would like to get it 100% right.


 
  
 Something interesting I found when I started looking at power conditioning was that a big UPS I had, which was nothing to do with my audio system but happened to be on the same circuit, had always exhibited audible hum.  I plugged an Emotiva CMX-2 into that circuit for a while, and while it was never connected to/before/after the UPS it killed the hum in that instantly.  Unplug the CMX-2 from the wall ... and that UPS starts humming again.
  
 No idea what that's about, and my power is pretty clean to begin with, but it was an effect I thought worth mentioning since it's easy to try and the Emotiva piece isn't expensive.


----------



## Badas

torq said:


> Something interesting I found when I started looking at power conditioning was that a big UPS I had, which was nothing to do with my audio system but happened to be on the same circuit, had always exhibited audible hum.  I plugged an Emotiva CMX-2 into that circuit for a while, and while it was never connected to/before/after the UPS it killed the hum in that instantly.  Unplug the CMX-2 from the wall ... and that UPS starts humming again.
> 
> No idea what that's about, and my power is pretty clean to begin with, but it was an effect I thought worth mentioning since it's easy to try and the Emotiva piece isn't expensive.


 

 Thanks for the advice. As I pull things apart I will try that. I will put the Woo on it's own wall connection. I have a spare.
  
 Behind my rack is four independently wired sockets. All on 30A fuses.


----------



## Torq

badas said:


> Thanks for the advice. As I pull things apart I will try that. I will put the Woo on it's own wall connection. I have a spare.
> 
> Behind my rack is four independently wired sockets. All on 30A fuses.


 
  
 Can't argue with that.
  
 To be clear ... nothing was connected to that CMX-2 ... it was just plugged into the wall with both its output sockets empty and that stopped the UPS humming.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Yip. You got it. I'm buying Tony's Vega.
> 
> I've heard this on my rig before and I was able to switch between the Arcam and the Vega. The Vega lifted the sound a lot. I also like the filters that you can apply. Evidently filter four lets stacks of treble detail through but very little harshness. Sounds promising.
> 
> I'm unable to give the Metrum Hex a listen. Options for listening are not good here.


No surprise on the improvement using the vega. 

I REALLY enjoyed my irdac,particularly with my soloist amp. But when opening up your wallet a lot more going up to something like a vega it is a massive difference. 

You'll get so much more out if your listening sessions, as you probably know. 

But nothing wrong with the irdac with the right gear at its price point at all


----------



## thecrow

leftside said:


> I'm very glad to report that moving my WA22 to a different circuit in the house completely eliminated the humming problem. The unit is now dead quiet! I seem to remember having problems with that circuit in the past. I'm going to get the electrician who installed my 20A circuit to come in and take a look.
> 
> I'm amazed at how quiet this thing is when listening through headphones. Even with my preamp set to the max and the WA22 set to the max I can only very barely hear the tiny tiniest of hisses (with no music playing) when connected to the DAC or SACD player. Even from the turntable with a tube phono preamp the noise levels are non-existent until you get close to max volume. I'm getting more and more impressed with the WA22.


Good to hear it's sorted.


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> No surprise on the improvement using the vega.
> 
> I REALLY enjoyed my irdac,particularly with my soloist amp. But when opening up your wallet a lot more going up to something like a vega it is a massive difference.
> 
> ...


 

 Yip. The Arcam is a price point DAC. Probably the best at that price point. The best I heard and I tried a lot.
  
 Vega opened up the whole soundfield. Everything sounded larger. I am very sensitive to treble sparkle/harshness and had a terrible experience with a sabre based DAC in the past. So when the Vega was in my rig I listened for that the most. I couldn't hear anything that would ruin my listening experience. So for me the Vega is a very good step in the right direction. I'm picking this will do more for me than rolling tubes.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> So for me the Vega is a very good step in the right direction. I'm picking this will do more for me than rolling tubes.


i definitely agree. I've only recently realised how crucial the dac is in detail and general signature. 

Once you have that locked in, you've already got your amp and your tubes tweak (actually more than that) everything from there. 

(Being my first endeavour into this kind of spending in audio) going from the soloist to the wa2 gave me more detail (more than I expected) and silky smoothness but then the dac just opened everything up. That's when things got really serious. 

I'd assume there's also a lot of synergy going on too

I hope you get exactly the same with your new home set up. I can't see why not from what I know of the vega. M
It's like going up a $3000 step in audio listening. Oh hang on, it is a $3000 step but worth probably every dollar.


----------



## asxtan

Leftside glad to hear you solved your hum issue.  I placed an order for the emotive cmx-2 from amazon to see if it can help with my hum issue. Reviews seem positive and price isn't too much.
  
 In some bad news I tried the SP274b in my chifi 300b integrated amp and it worked beautifully initially but then all of sudden the music went out and the amp went dead.  Unfortunately I wasn't in the room when it happened so didn't see exactly what happened.  I'm hoping it's just the fuse, I have an order on the way to test.  Question is now I'm not sure if my SB274b is still good anymore and I'm scared to test it in my wa22.  One side of the glass looks darker now almost smoked.  I don't think that was there before.  I took a pic and its on the left side. but kind of hard to see.  What do you guys think?  Is the tube still safe to use?  I guess its time to order the brimar 5z4gy.


----------



## asxtan

I guess I answered my own question with a quick search.  Seems like a common thing with SP274b getting dark tint from impurities.


----------



## Badas

asxtan said:


> I guess I answered my own question with a quick search.  Seems like a common thing with SP274b getting dark tint from impurities.


 
  
 A lot of tubes go dark. I have my original Brimar 5Z4GY that almost looks like it is dark tinted (400+ hours on it). Sounds fantastic tho. I love that tube.
  
 Just be very careful when powering things backup. Hopefully tubes and caps are okay. Might pay to take off the bottom and inspect the caps. If they look like they are swollen then get them fixed. The SP274b burning out would have killed the music.


----------



## leftside

asxtan said:


> Leftside glad to hear you solved your hum issue.  I placed an order for the emotive cmx-2 from amazon to see if it can help with my hum issue. Reviews seem positive and price isn't too much.


 
 Let us know how it goes with the cmx-2. I'm sure a few of us will be interested.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

asxtan said:


> In some bad news I tried the SP274b in my chifi 300b integrated amp and it worked beautifully initially but then all of sudden the music went out and the amp went dead.


 
  
 A SP274B mesh puts out only 90mA, 300B sucks like 60mA/tube + driver tube current.  Have you check to see whether your amp can accept the SP274B mesh?


----------



## jhljhl

asxtan said:


> Leftside glad to hear you solved your hum issue.  I placed an order for the emotive cmx-2 from amazon to see if it can help with my hum issue. Reviews seem positive and price isn't too much.
> 
> In some bad news I tried the SP274b in my chifi 300b integrated amp and it worked beautifully initially but then all of sudden the music went out and the amp went dead.  Unfortunately I wasn't in the room when it happened so didn't see exactly what happened.  I'm hoping it's just the fuse, I have an order on the way to test.  Question is now I'm not sure if my SB274b is still good anymore and I'm scared to test it in my wa22.  One side of the glass looks darker now almost smoked.  I don't think that was there before.  I took a pic and its on the left side. but kind of hard to see.  What do you guys think?  Is the tube still safe to use?  I guess its time to order the brimar 5z4gy.


 

 Took out a fuse in my wa5le.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

asxtan said:


> In some bad news I tried the SP274b in my chifi 300b integrated amp and it worked beautifully initially but then all of sudden the music went out and the amp went dead.


 
   
 From Sophia Electric website:
  
_The maximum current capability for Sophia Electric 274B mesh plate tube is 90ma, suitable for tube pre-amp and mono-block 45 single ended and 2A3 mono-block single ended._
  
_We would recommend Sophia Electric 274B rigid plate tube for 300B amplifiers. The maximum current capability for this 274B rigid plate tube is 160ma._


----------



## versace

Hey, i have been searching for a while, and i am wondering what impressions people have with the he1000's and the WA22? and what tubes you are rocking! (about to pull the trigger on a tak 274b  for my hd800's)


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Same tube.


 
 Thank you.
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


joseph69 said:


> Like @Badas say's, its the same tube.
> Didn't I recommend this tube to you from Langrex?


 
 Thank you.  Yes, you did.  It is a very nice tube in my rig with the HD598. Tube is nice enough to merit backups which are in transit. We have mentioned the SP274B and in my experience the HD650 is leveraged much better with this valve than the HD598. So the common Mantra continues:  YMMV  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 




 The big bottle 6FD7s you have been suggesting are ordered!  
  
 IIRC you prefer the WA6 to the SE. Could you direct me to the posts where this explained please.  Thanks.


----------



## leftside

Can anyone recommend some decent power tubes with a brown base for the WA22? I've got a nice brown base rectifier and brown base drivers, and was hoping to find a decent brown base pair of power tubes for a matching set. I know it's a little OCD...


----------



## asxtan

Wow that was really my mistake. Didn't realize sp274 mesh may not be direct sub for 274b in my amp. Hopefully it's just the fuse and not too expensive of a lesson learned. That is most likely the case. Any thoughts on if I did harm to the sp274 mesh tube?


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Sorry about your issue. Please keep us in the loop with the outcomes.  Hope the fuse protected the amp.


----------



## joseph69

bitten by bug said:


> Thank you.  Yes, you did.  It is a very nice tube in my rig with the HD598. Tube is nice enough to merit backups which are in transit. We have mentioned the SP274B and in my experience the HD650 is leveraged much better with this valve than the HD598. So the common Mantra continues:  YMMV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, your welcome, I just didn't remember if it was you…@Badas actually turned me onto them, so he gets the credit.
 I also bought a couple of back-ups myself. I've been listening to the 5Z4G/6FD7 combo for a while now just to change things up from my other favorite combo 596/6F8G or the 6SN7's, and I'm really enjoying the former combo lately. My post about the WA6/SE was quite a bit back, so in short, I preferred the WA6 due to its warmer sound-signature/footprint and tube rolling options at the time because the SE didn't accept the 6SN7's and @2359glenn wasn't making the adapters at that time (but he is now). Woo claimed the 6SN7's shouldn't be used in the SE but plenty of people use the 6SN7's with Glenn's adapters with no issues.
  
 Let me know what you think about the 6FD7's, and keep in mind we are using two totally different HP's…I'm use either my RS1i/GH-1 with my WA6.


----------



## phase0

My NU 6F8G finally arrived. I had an accident trying to remove a 6C8G. Destroyed one. All my fault and I have to own it. That force to get it to move from the socket and then slow reaction at the moment when it comes free where you jerk because the resistance is gone... klink... boom... Fuuuuu------ gotta try to be more careful.
  

  
 RIP little guy. You were awesome for the short time I had you. Sorry to destroy a beautiful antique. I suck...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The NU 6F8G, One was noisy. I don't think there's any alcohol to clean it up. Tried. One seemed good but I didn't leave it on to see how it goes over minutes. Deoxit on the way so I suppose I can hang on to them and give that a shot before trying to return.
  
 I'm back on Ken-Rad 6C8F. Now I'm glad I got those. Any of you destroy tubes or is it just me?


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> My NU 6F8G finally arrived. I had an accident trying to remove a 6C8G. Destroyed one. All my fault and I have to own it. That force to get it to move from the socket and then slow reaction at the moment when it comes free where you jerk because the resistance is gone... klink... boom... Fuuuuu------ gotta try to be more careful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
 Also, sorry to hear one of your 6F8G's are noisy. My first pair one was noisy (still have them) and Deoxit didn't fix the issue so I ordered another pair and thankfully they are dead quiet.


----------



## phase0

Curious, why keep the tubes if they're not working for you?


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> Curious, why keep the tubes if they're not working for you?


 
 Its not that their not working…*one* is noisy through the HP driver so I'm not going to throw them away. Besides, I might find *one* that isn't noisy and pair it together with mine.


----------



## phase0

Cool. My vantage point is these tubes only have a purpose in my WA5. If it doesn't work there, then I may as well send it back during the return window and try some other tubes that will hopefully work. If I can't use it maybe someone else can. I just want to hang on to the tubes that work in the amp that I like. I'm scared now. As clumsy as I am maybe I shouldn't be tube rolling. At least the drivers are the cheap tubes of the bunch.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> Cool. My vantage point is these tubes only have a purpose in my WA5. If it doesn't work there, then I may as well send it back during the return window and try some other tubes that will hopefully work. If I can't use it maybe someone else can. I just want to hang on to the tubes that work in the amp that I like. I'm scared now. As clumsy as I am maybe I shouldn't be tube rolling. At least the drivers are the cheap tubes of the bunch.


 
 Yea, most say that the 6F8G's are noisy in the WA5 regardless if their good/bad.
 I wouldn't be afraid to roll the tubes, just take your time pulling them. I also wear the vinyl gloves when swapping tubes so I have a better grip on them.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Can anyone recommend some decent power tubes with a brown base for the WA22? I've got a nice brown base rectifier and brown base drivers, and was hoping to find a decent brown base pair of power tubes for a matching set. I know it's a little OCD...


 
  
 Just buy a black base and run brown tape around the bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The only brown base I know is GEC6AS7G. Not a nice price tho.


asxtan said:


> Wow that was really my mistake. Didn't realize sp274 mesh may not be direct sub for 274b in my amp. Hopefully it's just the fuse and not too expensive of a lesson learned. That is most likely the case. *Any thoughts on if I did harm to the sp274 mesh tube?*


 
  
 Yes. Very likely and if it is damaged it could blow producing more damage. Get it tested.
  


joseph69 said:


> Yea, most say that the 6F8G's are noisy in the WA5 regardless if their good/bad.
> I wouldn't be afraid to roll the tubes, just take your time pulling them. I also wear the vinyl gloves when swapping tubes so I have a better grip on them.


 
  
 Lets be clear. Only NU6F8G is noisy in the WA5. All other brands are quiet. NU6C8G is a better tube. Same sound, more gain, quiet and cheaper.
  
 The theory about NU6F8G being noisy in the WA5 is that the 300B tubes are too much for a 6SN7 type driver. It is pushing it to the max. The NU obviously doesn't like that power. It is fine in the WA22 where 6080 power tubes supply less power.
 The NU6C8G has more gain so handles the 300B's power with no problems.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> *Just buy a black base and run brown tape around the bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Funny, I don't like the way the brown base tubes look (and I have plenty) in my amp so I wrap flat black vinyl adhesive around the bases which make them look much nicer.
  
 All clear that only the NU is noisy in the WA5…sorry to have misinformed anyone.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> The only brown base I know is GEC6AS7G. Not a nice price tho.


 
 Excellent. Thanks.


----------



## Porteroso

phase0 said:


> Any of you destroy tubes or is it just me?


 
 Yeah, I killed a TS rp in 6F8G, don't even know what they go for now. Only have one other pair of those, though it was new enough that I'll eventually pick up a single and it will be fine. On another note, I need a TS flat plate in 6F8G to make a pair, if anyone happens to have a single. Would love to listen to them, not many people have.
  
 But I feel your pain. There's this sort of sinking feeling when it happens. They haven't made these things for so long, and sure, it may only (right, only) cost a hundred bucks to replace, but eventually they will run out. Breaking a tube is just so not fun.


----------



## abvolt

I have been listening to my mullard gz 30 and comparing it to a mullard gz 32 their internal construction as Badas said is almost identical to each other, however their sq differs but not by too much the gz 32 definitely goes a little deeper in the low end they both offer the same sweet mids with very clear treble. Trying to compair the two mullards with the Brimar 5z4gy dosen't work for me because I really enjoy all 3 tubes, the Brimar is no doubt one of my favorites. They are all very much different in sq all are very enjoyable to listen to. I really think it all depends on the music your listening to at the time the gz 30 sounds great with rock where as the Brimar is awesome with jazz and my gz 32 vocals for sure only my opinion..Enjoy


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I have been listening to my mullard gz 30 and comparing it to a mullard gz 32 their internal construction as Badas said is almost identical to each other, however their sq differs but not by too much the gz 32 definitely goes a little deeper in the low end they both offer the same sweet mids with very clear treble. Trying to compair the two mullards with the Brimar 5z4gy dosen't work for me because I really enjoy all 3 tubes, the Brimar is no doubt one of my favorites. They are all very much different in sq all are very enjoyable to listen to. I really think it all depends on the music your listening to at the time the gz 30 sounds great with rock where as the Brimar is awesome with jazz and my gz 32 vocals for sure only my opinion..Enjoy


 

 Nice write up.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Any of you destroy tubes or is it just me?


 
  
 Yeah. I dropped a Mullard 6080 and destroyed.
  
 Just a warning. Especially with NOS tubes. Dispose straight away. They can have Mercury vapor or other nasties in them.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

joseph69 said:


> Oh, your welcome, I just didn't remember if it was you…@Badas actually turned me onto them, so he gets the credit.
> I also bought a couple of back-ups myself. I've been listening to the 5Z4G/6FD7 combo for a while now just to change things up from my other favorite combo 596/6F8G or the 6SN7's, and I'm really enjoying the former combo lately. My post about the WA6/SE was quite a bit back, so in short, I preferred the WA6 due to its warmer sound-signature/footprint and tube rolling options at the time because the SE didn't accept the 6SN7's and @2359glenn wasn't making the adapters at that time (but he is now). Woo claimed the 6SN7's shouldn't be used in the SE but plenty of people use the 6SN7's with Glenn's adapters with no issues.
> 
> Let me know what you think about the 6FD7's, and keep in mind we are using two totally different HP's…I'm use either my RS1i/GH-1 with my WA6.


 
  
 Thanks for the update.  Will provide impressions 
  
 Here is one that arrived today. Ugly as sin, but I am captured by the sound right out of the box.  5R4WGB
  

  


phase0 said:


> My NU 6F8G finally arrived. I had an accident trying to remove a 6C8G. Destroyed one. All my fault and I have to own it. That force to get it to move from the socket and then slow reaction at the moment when it comes free where you jerk because the resistance is gone... klink... boom... Fuuuuu------ gotta try to be more careful.
> 
> 
> 
> RIP little guy. You were awesome for the short time I had you. Sorry to destroy a beautiful antique. I suck...


 
  
 Rats - sorry for your misfortune  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





badas said:


> Nice write up.


 
 Agree with @Badas


----------



## joseph69

bitten by bug said:


> Thanks for the update.  Will provide impressions
> 
> Here is one that arrived today. Ugly as sin, but I am captured by the sound right out of the box.  5R4WGB


 
 I have to agree with you about the looks, but as long as it sound good thats all that matters!


----------



## jhljhl

Thought I'd say a word about the sylvania vt231.  These are very neutral sounding tubes to me maybe the most neutral of all 6sn7 I have heard.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Greetings Woo owners. I'm officially part of the Woo-tang-clan. Lol

I recently dumped my entire rig (HE500>Parasound Zdac>Parasound Zamp>Schiit Lyr as a preamp w/Valvo CCa)

As much as I wanted it to work, it just didn't. So , I aquired a Woo Wa6, and purchased a Dac-lite60 , r2r tube dac. Atm, I'm on the can hunt.

I'm in the process of reading this thread in its entirety. I did the same with both Lyr threads. I'll report back once the rig is complete. 

This thread is extremely informative, and recommend to everyone new, to read it. I've already learned a ton. 

Cheers


----------



## Bitten by Bug

joseph69 said:


> I have to agree with you about the looks, but as long as it sound good thats all that matters!


 
 Ha Ha!  True!


----------



## Bitten by Bug

guidostrunk said:


> Greetings Woo owners. I'm officially part of the Woo-tang-clan. Lol


 
 Ha Ha,  .....   Welcome!


----------



## joseph69

jhljhl said:


> Thought I'd say a word about the sylvania vt231.  These are very neutral sounding tubes to me maybe the most neutral of all 6sn7 I have heard.


 
 I have these tubes as well and enjoy them very much!


----------



## Porteroso

guidostrunk said:


> Greetings Woo owners. I'm officially part of the Woo-tang-clan. Lol
> 
> I recently dumped my entire rig (HE500>Parasound Zdac>Parasound Zamp>Schiit Lyr as a preamp w/Valvo CCa)
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sure anyone in here would tell you that the first tube to upgrade is the rectifier, to the Brimar 5Z4G. Still on langrex at 18 pounds last I saw.
  
 I think that for the money, it is pretty incredible. I have a few stocked up myself, and I think it is pretty clean, fun, and definitely more detailed than what Woo gives you. Against the best rectifiers, the tonality is boomy, and sounds a bit compressed. Dynamics lack a bit, and it does not give you the detail that a tube at least 10x of its price will. But ya, I think it is a great rectifier, and will make a WA6 much better than it sounds stock.
  
 After that, it used to be that people went to 6SN7s to upgrade their sound, but some time back, a few of us found that 6F8G was the same as the 6SN7 sound quality, and could be had for often 1/2 or 1/4 of the money. Then badas/tony found that the 6C8G is basically the same, at even lower cost. All that to say, what most would recommend now is to get a pair of 6DE7 --> 6F8G adapters from Glenn, and then go hunting for National Union 6F8G/6C8G, or Tung Sols of those types. With the Brimar, it will be a great amp. Then you can choose to upgrade the rectifier when you want. The next one that would be better will cost you into the 300-400 range.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the infos. Yeah, my brain is fried from reading this thread , and already read DSG's , entire rectifier thread. Lol. 
Numbers and letters, oh my. Lol.

Thanks again!


porteroso said:


> I'm sure anyone in here would tell you that the first tube to upgrade is the rectifier, to the Brimar 5Z4G. Still on langrex at 18 pounds last I saw.
> 
> I think that for the money, it is pretty incredible. I have a few stocked up myself, and I think it is pretty clean, fun, and definitely more detailed than what Woo gives you. Against the best rectifiers, the tonality is boomy, and sounds a bit compressed. Dynamics lack a bit, and it does not give you the detail that a tube at least 10x of its price will. But ya, I think it is a great rectifier, and will make a WA6 much better than it sounds stock.
> 
> After that, it used to be that people went to 6SN7s to upgrade their sound, but some time back, a few of us found that 6F8G was the same as the 6SN7 sound quality, and could be had for often 1/2 or 1/4 of the money. Then badas/tony found that the 6C8G is basically the same, at even lower cost. All that to say, what most would recommend now is to get a pair of 6DE7 --> 6F8G adapters from Glenn, and then go hunting for National Union 6F8G/6C8G, or Tung Sols of those types. With the Brimar, it will be a great amp. Then you can choose to upgrade the rectifier when you want. The next one that would be better will cost you into the 300-400 range.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Quick question. Differences between the Brimar 5R4GY vs 5Z4GY? Or same sound sig? 
Thanks


porteroso said:


> I'm sure anyone in here would tell you that the first tube to upgrade is the rectifier, to the Brimar 5Z4G. Still on langrex at 18 pounds last I saw.
> 
> I think that for the money, it is pretty incredible. I have a few stocked up myself, and I think it is pretty clean, fun, and definitely more detailed than what Woo gives you. Against the best rectifiers, the tonality is boomy, and sounds a bit compressed. Dynamics lack a bit, and it does not give you the detail that a tube at least 10x of its price will. But ya, I think it is a great rectifier, and will make a WA6 much better than it sounds stock.
> 
> After that, it used to be that people went to 6SN7s to upgrade their sound, but some time back, a few of us found that 6F8G was the same as the 6SN7 sound quality, and could be had for often 1/2 or 1/4 of the money. Then badas/tony found that the 6C8G is basically the same, at even lower cost. All that to say, what most would recommend now is to get a pair of 6DE7 --> 6F8G adapters from Glenn, and then go hunting for National Union 6F8G/6C8G, or Tung Sols of those types. With the Brimar, it will be a great amp. Then you can choose to upgrade the rectifier when you want. The next one that would be better will cost you into the 300-400 range.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> Then you can choose to upgrade the rectifier when you want. The next one that would be better will cost you into the 300-400 range.


 
 What about the UE-596 for $150.00 +/- if he can find one, and also the 6FD7 (big bottles) from Woo?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

There are a few 596's on accessories sale forum now....


----------



## joseph69

sko0bydoo said:


> There are a few 596's on accessories sale forum now....


 
 Good to know for those who are interested and are looking for a great rectifier tube.
 I'm set for a very long time with the 596's.


----------



## jhljhl

porteroso said:


> I'm sure anyone in here would tell you that the first tube to upgrade is the rectifier, to the Brimar 5Z4G. Still on langrex at 18 pounds last I saw.
> 
> I think that for the money, it is pretty incredible. I have a few stocked up myself, and I think it is pretty clean, fun, and definitely more detailed than what Woo gives you. Against the best rectifiers, the tonality is boomy, and sounds a bit compressed. Dynamics lack a bit, and it does not give you the detail that a tube at least 10x of its price will. But ya, I think it is a great rectifier, and will make a WA6 much better than it sounds stock.
> 
> After that, it used to be that people went to 6SN7s to upgrade their sound, but some time back, a few of us found that 6F8G was the same as the 6SN7 sound quality, and could be had for often 1/2 or 1/4 of the money. Then badas/tony found that the 6C8G is basically the same, at even lower cost. All that to say, what most would recommend now is to get a pair of 6DE7 --> 6F8G adapters from Glenn, and then go hunting for National Union 6F8G/6C8G, or Tung Sols of those types. With the Brimar, it will be a great amp. Then you can choose to upgrade the rectifier when you want. The next one that would be better will cost you into the 300-400 range.


 
  
  
 Glenn said he could make a el3n to 6sn7 adapter.  I'm curious to see anyone here try it but I don't think they'll fit in a wa5 next to the 300b.


----------



## MIKELAP

phase0 said:


> My NU 6F8G finally arrived. I had an accident trying to remove a 6C8G. Destroyed one. All my fault and I have to own it. That force to get it to move from the socket and then slow reaction at the moment when it comes free where you jerk because the resistance is gone... klink... boom... Fuuuuu------ gotta try to be more careful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well your not alone lol,joseph69 tip to use rubber gloves is excellent need traction on those suckers and i always use 2 hands on them ,like my baseball coach use to tell me always 2 hands on the ball lol. I take lots of pictures of them and for me thats when they are at risk unfortunately .


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> The only brown base I know is GEC6AS7G. Not a nice price tho.


 
 Are there decent red base rectifiers and power tubes for the WA22? I have the red base RCA's. Would be nice to get a complete matching set.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Are there decent red base rectifiers and power tubes for the WA22? I have the red base RCA's. Would be nice to get a complete matching set.


 

 Not that I know of dude.
  
 Ya need to get into getting labels for your bases. I use to do this. OCD like you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Here is a pic of what I use to do. You can see a red base GE power tube.
  

  
 Now I can't be bothered and just leave them natural.


----------



## 3083joe

Nothing can touch the tak 
1641 coming out back to tak


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Nothing can touch the tak
> 1641 coming out back to tak


 
 that's real good to know as ya have tried just about everything. Love the Tak. I need to buy a spare.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Now I can't be bothered and just leave them natural.


 
 I like that natural look.


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> I like that natural look.


 
  
 Oh yeah that looks sweet, I really like the black wa22..


----------



## Rossliew

3083joe said:


> Nothing can touch the tak
> 1641 coming out back to tak


 
  
 How does the tube damper help? Does it minimise/reduce RF interference or something along those lines?


----------



## Bitten by Bug

There are so many pleasant tubes out there. The Tube Du Jour is a NOS Philips 5R4GA.  Right out of the box this is quite enjoyable.  Lots of clean clear mid and high end detail. 
  
 Kinda makes me wonder how the rectifier actually has such a profound impact on SQ. Doesn't it just turn AC into pulsed DC? Or is that too far OT?


----------



## asxtan

Just wanted to update everyone.  I got the emotive cmx-2 in and it has improved my hum situation with the wa22.  The hum is basically completely gone.  I can only hear it if I put my ear right next to the transformer.  Sitting about one foot away from the amp I can't hear any hum.  
  
 Also I change the fuse on my 300b integrated amp and it is working again!  Back to enjoying music!


----------



## Badas

asxtan said:


> Just wanted to update everyone.  I got the emotive cmx-2 in and it has improved my hum situation with the wa22.  The hum is basically completely gone.  I can only hear it if I put my ear right next to the transformer.  Sitting about one foot away from the amp I can't hear any hum.
> 
> Also I change the fuse on my 300b integrated amp and it is working again!  Back to enjoying music!




Great news. Excellent result.


----------



## 3083joe

rossliew said:


> How does the tube damper help? Does it minimise/reduce RF interference or something along those lines?



Yes. Some. Also microphony/vibrations etc


----------



## Badas

Okay. I switched back to the Brimar 5Z4 rectifier. No transformer hum at all. So it is the 274B rectifiers causing transformer hum. Geez this is getting annoying. Kinda pisses me off about Woo products. Amp is labeled up 6080 power tubes on the casing. So I discover half of the 6080 type power tubes run noisy. Now 274B is on the rectifier list and it causes transformer hum which gets heard in the HP's. Rant over.

Fortunately the Brimar is sounding lovely. To my ears this is the best budget tube available. 

My rig this morning. 
I'm using DVD-Audio. I just discovered it works from my Oppo player to Optical input on the Arcam DAC. I don't know why I haven't tried this before. It sounds great. Also found out Blu-Ray audio works as well.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Okay. I switched back to the Brimar 5Z4 rectifier. No transformer hum at all. So it is the 274B rectifiers causing transformer hum.


 
 See, I had the same issue with my SP 274B after not using it for a while…then I put the Brimar in and no transform hum at all.


----------



## Badas

​


joseph69 said:


> See, I had the same issue with my SP 274B after not using it for a while…then I put the Brimar in and no transform hum at all.




Yip it seems to be 274B type rectifiers. Even the TAK274B which hands down is the best sounding rectifier does it.
I've now had the Brimar 5Z4GY on for 3 hours. No hum from the transformers at all. The WA22 is so quiet with the right tubes.

I think I will switch back to the TAK tho. As it sounds amazing. Plus hum sound is only noticeable between music tracks and most times it is quiet.


----------



## asxtan

I just placed an order for the Brimar 5z4gy from langrex.  Will report back if any difference in hum for me.  Hopefully shipping to California doesn't take too long.  Can't wait to try based on all the great reviews.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> ​Yip it seems to be 274B type rectifiers. Even the TAK274B which hands down is the best sounding rectifier does it.
> I've now had the Brimar 5Z4GY on for 3 hours. No hum from the transformers at all. The WA22 is so quiet with the right tubes.
> 
> I think I will switch back to the TAK tho. As it sounds amazing. Plus hum sound is only noticeable between music tracks and most times it is quiet.



Don't know that I have notice this with my tak might switch and see


----------



## joseph69

asxtan said:


> I just placed an order for the Brimar 5z4gy from langrex.  Will report back if any difference in hum for me.  Hopefully shipping to California doesn't take too long.  Can't wait to try based on all the great reviews.


 
 Good for you, nice sounding tube.
 Langrex has been very good shipping to the east coast so...


----------



## jhljhl

I'm using the brimar 5z4g with the sylvania vt-231.  They seem to balance nicely.  The brimar gives some overall warmth to the neutral sylvanias and bass slam to the hd800.


----------



## abvolt

asxtan said:


> I just placed an order for the Brimar 5z4gy from langrex.  Will report back if any difference in hum for me.  Hopefully shipping to California doesn't take too long.  Can't wait to try based on all the great reviews.


 
 You'll really enjoy that tube it's sq is excellent..


----------



## phase0

mikelap said:


> Well your not alone lol,joseph69 tip to use rubber gloves is excellent need traction on those suckers and i always use 2 hands on them ,like my baseball coach use to tell me always 2 hands on the ball lol. I take lots of pictures of them and for me thats when they are at risk unfortunately .


 
  
 LOL well I did use two hands. Some come easier than others. One of the 6F8G Adapters comes out with the tube from the base (tube fit is more snug than the adapter fit) and the other adapter is snug enough the tube will come out of the adapter but the adapter stays well fit in the base. I got the vinyl gloves now. I didn't even think of the possibility that they could have mercury vapor or other nasties inside. I'm glad I cleaned it up right away. Regardless it was mid tube swap so I had to clean it up. Plus I don't like the surprise of walking barefoot and stepping on glass shards and slivers.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We're thrilled to announce WA8 Eclipse. Check out Jude's video

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/hXdVpWQYrNw[/VIDEO]


----------



## joseph69

hifiguy528 said:


> We're thrilled to announce WA8 Eclipse. Check out Jude's video


 
 Doesn't seem to be showing the video?


----------



## phase0

I heard the WA8 at a CanJam. I thought it was one of the nicest small portable amps I heard that day. It seems like it's more conveniently transportable than portable. Portable to me is fits-in-my-pocket-comfortably like an iPhone or a small DAP.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Glad you all are sorting out your noise issues.  Too bad it seems to lead to the 274B.
  
 On the subject of tubes, I am underwhelmed with Lan**ex once again
  
 <rant>.
 My order of 21 February has yet to arrive and another order of 27 February has not been delivered. And no order acknowledgement or shipping notice twice again.
  
 Also, I emailed them twice to inquire if they have something in stock and they have failed to favor me with any reply. Some things are seriously lacking with the manner that these folks conduct their business.  
 <end rant>
  
 On to a good business experience: Tubemongers delivered socket savers promptly. Ordered on Suday and in hand before I knew it. Even included a nice little container in which to store them. Nice touch! Seems like a nice product..
  
 The Tube Du Jour is a brand new Sovtex 5AR4 with International 6DR7s.  Man those drivers are powerful. I elected to keep them and this is their first time with music. My volume setting is way, way down. Bass is effortless. A very interesting combination. Looking forward to breaking this combo in. Maybe I should get a second amp for the office and speed up all the breaking in.  Hmmm. Maybe get the smaller WA6...or not.  That can take some additional drivers. Would probably make economic sense to get a second WA6SE to keep me from rolling a larger variety of valves! Ha Ha.


----------



## joseph69

bitten by bug said:


> Glad you all are sorting out your noise issues.  Too bad it seems to lead to the 274B.
> 
> On the subject of tubes, I am underwhelmed with Lan**ex once again
> 
> ...


 
 Sorryto hear about your experience with them…I'm very surprised, because as I have said before they were nothing short of excellent with delivery. I sure it will all work out for you in the end, good luck.


----------



## leftside

bitten by bug said:


> Glad you all are sorting out your noise issues.  Too bad it seems to lead to the 274B.
> 
> On the subject of tubes, I am underwhelmed with Lan**ex once again
> 
> ...


 

 Same experience with Lan**ex. Though they did reply quite quickly when I enquired about some very expensive tubes.
  
 I also ordered socket savers from Tubemongers on Sunday - so hoping they arrive soon. I seem to have obtained quite a few tubes, and I don't want to wear out the main sockets of my Woo!
  
 Yes, get a second amp of same amp. I couldn't imagine another tube amp with a different set of tubes to roll. I'd need to retired (to have the time) and also be quite wealthy!


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Sorryto hear about your experience with them…I'm very surprised, because as I have said before they were nothing short of excellent with delivery. I sure it will all work out for you in the end, good luck.




I agree. They have been great to me. I had a bunch of GE6AS7GA's go missing. They never did turn up. They sent out more as soon as I notified. Plus some extra's. They gave me some Mullard 6080's to try. Stuff like that.

I must say they don't notify when stuff is being shipped and there is no tracking. Seems to be an American thing to do that. They honour their purchases and kinda do business like gentlemen. Not a well oiled machine. James is the man. If you want things done or info he is the one to contact.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joseph69 said:


> Doesn't seem to be showing the video?


 
  
 It works for me in original post and in your quote. Perhaps you have ad block or something that blocks videos installed on your web browser? 
  
 More info on WA8 Eclipse.


----------



## joseph69

hifiguy528 said:


> It works for me in original post and in your quote. Perhaps you have ad block or something that blocks videos installed on your web browser?


 
 Thanks, it wasn't initially playing when you put it up, then I went back to it and it played.
 Thanks again.


----------



## u2u2

joseph69 said:


> Sorryto hear about your experience with them…I'm very surprised, because as I have said before they were nothing short of excellent with delivery. I sure it will all work out for you in the end, good luck.


 

 Plus one here.
  
 I don't understand those getting poor service as it is in such contrast to my experience. I am on my third order in the past month. James has been too efficient sending me the products promised. No games, BS, trying to bait and switch. He was a great help with tubes for my WA6 last year. This year even better with my WA22. The GEC, Mullard, Brimar, and even RCA tubes I have received from him have been fantastic. Thankfully he has a limited selection of tubes otherwise my wallet would be empty.


----------



## u2u2

badas said:


> ​ Yip it seems to be 274B type rectifiers. Even the TAK274B which hands down is the best sounding rectifier does it.
> I've now had the Brimar 5Z4GY on for 3 hours. No hum from the transformers at all. The WA22 is so quiet with the right tubes.
> 
> I think I will switch back to the TAK tho. As it sounds amazing. Plus hum sound is only noticeable between music tracks and most times it is quiet.


 

 Been following your WA22 experiences with the hope that one day I might acquire a TAK274B. Your results with rectifiers tubes make the TAK sound too risky for me but so far I have had zero rectifier or driver related noises. All of mine have been with power tubes, which to me are both the strength and weakness of the WA22. Few power tubes are dead silent but when they are the amp shines. My amp is a late 2015 build. Have you noticed any relationship between the vintage of the WA22 and noise issues? From the various threads it seems there are several variations in the as built specs of the WA22 series. I am assuming your is an older build. Thanks for any insight.


----------



## abvolt

I hear ya on that one I'd love to try a tak274b but my cheapness seems to always get the best of me. when the price gets over say 250 the panic attacks start..Enjoy


----------



## Badas

u2u2 said:


> Been following your WA22 experiences with the hope that one day I might acquire a TAK274B. Your results with rectifiers tubes make the TAK sound too risky for me but so far I have had zero rectifier or driver related noises. All of mine have been with power tubes, which to me are both the strength and weakness of the WA22. Few power tubes are dead silent but when they are the amp shines. My amp is a late 2015 build. Have you noticed any relationship between the vintage of the WA22 and noise issues? From the various threads it seems there are several variations in the as built specs of the WA22 series. I am assuming your is an older build. Thanks for any insight.




Mine is a late 2014 build and all in all not a good one. Definitely had a lot of issues with power tubes. From what I have worked out the older WA22's are golden. No issues what so ever. The more latter models have the problems. Contacted Woo and they just blamed the tubes. I took the most noisiest power tubes and placed them in a WA2. The result was dead quiet. So it is not tubes it is the amp. Something had been changed from the earlier models. I told Woo this result and their answer was we can sell you 7236 tubes that are quiet. They really don't want to know or I just can't get the point across to them.

The TAK274B issue is extremely minor. The TAK tube is stunning beautiful sounding. It has no weak link. Every sound category is a 10/10. So I'm going to stick it back in and let the transformer hum on occasion. I don't really care about the hum.


----------



## u2u2

badas said:


> Mine is a late 2014 build and all in all not a good one. Definitely had a lot of issues with power tubes. From what I have worked out the older WA22's are golden. No issues what so ever. The more latter models have the problems. Contacted Woo and they just blamed the tubes. I took the most noisiest power tubes and placed them in a WA2. The result was dead quiet. So it is not tubes it is the amp. Something had been changed from the earlier models. I told Woo this result and their answer was we can sell you 7236 tubes that are quiet. They really don't want to know or I just can't get the point across to them.
> 
> The TAK274B issue is extremely minor. The TAK tube is stunning beautiful sounding. It has no weak link. Every sound category is a 10/10. So I'm going to stick it back in and let the transformer hum on occasion. I don't really care about the hum.


 

 I think they added a phase splitter and smooth volume control in place of the stepped attenuator since your build date. Difficult to figure out the changes and issues with certainty. Of 13 sets of power tubes I have tried only one tube has noise beyond reasonable use. I did get the 7236 Sylvanias from Woo and they are as advertised but my current preferred set are GEC 6080WA. I ordered a second set of them and they should arrive in the next few days. If they are good I will be pretty comfortable considering investing more in a high end rectifier. At that point I will figure I got lucky or some other design change has improved the amp. I have only had the amp ten weeks but I have had an obscene amount of free time to experiment with it. Seems to be solid kit. Appreciate your response and hope you get a better resolution.


----------



## Contrails

> > Mine is a late 2014 build and all in all not a good one. Definitely had a lot of issues with power tubes. From what I have worked out the older WA22's are golden. No issues what so ever. The more latter models have the problems. Contacted Woo and they just blamed the tubes. I took the most noisiest power tubes and placed them in a WA2. The result was dead quiet. So it is not tubes it is the amp. Something had been changed from the earlier models. I told Woo this result and their answer was we can sell you 7236 tubes that are quiet. They really don't want to know or I just can't get the point across to them.
> >
> > The TAK274B issue is extremely minor. The TAK tube is stunning beautiful sounding. It has no weak link. Every sound category is a 10/10. So I'm going to stick it back in and let the transformer hum on occasion. I don't really care about the hum.


 
  
 To be honest, that's quite a disappointing response.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1! That's pretty scary, for customer service. 





contrails said:


> To be honest, that's quite a disappointing response.


----------



## Stereolab42

Badas, you're obviously an unhappy Woo customer and continue to make it clear several times a week in this thread... can you please move on?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Aaaaannnnd.... the thread killing post. ^_^


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. It is encouraging to learn that in some circumstances Lang**x have acted as gentlemen and provided good service. Seems the @Badas comment that they are not a well oiled machine could be rather spot on. I guess we just have to put up with purveyor idiosyncrasies when we want to roll tubes in our Woo. Thanks again.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> Badas, *you're obviously an unhappy Woo customer* and continue to make it clear several times a week in this thread... can you please move on?


 
  
 Don't quote me as a unhappy Woo customer. Hard to explain. It gives me great enjoyment. It certainly has a nice sound. I have worked around issues like buying stacks of power tubes and working out what works and what doesn't. That is why I contribute.
  
 It just disappoints me that it could have been better and not all WA22's are built to the same quality. Some are good and some are bad. Luck of the draw and I lucked out. Mine has never done what is advertised. Like running 6080 power tubes quietly.
  
 Woo's customer service and acknowledging a problem could be better also. They are very dismissive.


----------



## abvolt

That sucks dude must be super frustrating, my wa22 will accept most any tube without noise too bad some won't...Enjoy


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Ya need to get into getting labels for your bases. I use to do this. OCD like you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey, those labels are pretty cool. I know I could Google, but is there a good, known source for these?


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> My rig this morning.
> I'm using DVD-Audio. *I just discovered it works from my Oppo player to Optical input on the Arcam DAC*. I don't know why I haven't tried this before. It sounds great. Also found out Blu-Ray audio works as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You may or may not care, but the TOSLINK out will likely be limited to 48kHz/16-bit output, due to copy restrictions and depending on the content. For example, with SACD discs, you will likely get 88.2/24-bit PCM, but with Blu-ray and DVD-Audio, it will only output 48/16.
  
 However, you can get one of these:
  
https://www.kanexpro.com/converters/hdmi/
  
 ...and split-out S/PDIF audio from the HDMI output, at full resolution. I do this with a Pioneer BDP and then feed the S/PDIF (coax) into my Rega. Sounds wonderful.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> You may or may not care, but the TOSLINK out will likely be limited to 48kHz/16-bit output, due to copy restrictions and depending on the content. For example, with SACD discs, you will likely get 88.2/24-bit PCM, but with Blu-ray and DVD-Audio, it will only output 48/16.
> 
> However, you can get one of these:
> 
> ...


 

 Okay. Good to know.
  
 My Oppo BDP-103D can decode all SACD, DVD Audio and Blu-ray Audio and send via RCA. Should I give that a blast?
 Obviously it will be using the players DAC.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Okay. Good to know.
> 
> My Oppo BDP-103D can decode all SACD, DVD Audio and Blu-ray Audio and send *via RCA. Should I give that a blast?*
> Obviously it will be using the players DAC.


 

 The Oppo's internal decoder is highly regarded, so I would say 'Yes'; will probably outperform the Arcam with disc content.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> The Oppo's internal decoder is highly regarded, so I would say 'Yes'; will probably outperform the Arcam with disc content.


 

 If a signal is already PCM (of any given rate) then is there any decoding performed by a DAC?
  
 I've never got my head around all this.
  
 DVD Audio and Blu-ray Audio is already in PCM. Only SACD is DCD.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> Hey, those labels are pretty cool. I know I could Google, but is there a good, known source for these?


 

 I just used Google then dropped the logo's into a design program. The Tung-Sol logo is entirely my design.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> If a signal is already PCM (of any given rate) then is there any decoding performed by a DAC?
> 
> I've never got my head around all this.
> 
> DVD Audio and Blu-ray Audio is already in PCM. Only SACD is DCD.


 

 The Oppo players use ESS Sabre DACs, internally, so they will decode MPL from DVD-Audio, DTS Master/Dolby True HD/PCM from Blu-ray and DSD from SACDs and feed PCM directly to the DACs, outputting as analog on the RCA outs (for the 103, I think you use the FL/FR for stereo out).
  
 I *believe* (could be wrong) that the only the higher-end Oppo will do direct DSD-to-analog out; but still, converting to 88.2/24 and then to analog will sound fine.
  
 Plug in the analog out right into your WA22 and prepare to be amazed...


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> I just used Google then dropped the logo's into a design program. The Tung-Sol logo is entirely my design.


 

 Cool. I can handle the design part, but what did you use for printable stickers? Any heat issues?


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> The Oppo players use ESS Sabre DACs, internally, so they will decode MPL from DVD-Audio, DTS Master/Dolby True HD/PCM from Blu-ray and DSD from SACDs and feed PCM directly to the DACs, outputting as analog on the RCA outs (for the 103, I think you use the FL/FR for stereo out).
> 
> I *believe* (could be wrong) that the only the higher-end Oppo will do direct DSD-to-analog out; but still, converting to 88.2/24 and then to analog will sound fine.
> 
> Plug in the analog out right into your WA22 and prepare to be amazed...


 
  
 Yip. I have it wired and setup exactly that way already. I just need to put more listening time in.
  
 As I have two blu-ray players exactly the same. I have one setup to do multi-channel output for my 7.3 channel speaker system and the other as you described above for HP's. Oppo BDP-103 will decode and send as analog. I've used it before. So I guess this is the best way.
  


krutsch said:


> Cool. I can handle the design part, but what did you use for printable stickers? Any heat issues?


 
  
 I have the advantage of running a label company. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can get any label printed.
 No heat issues. I mainly just print of gloss paper stock. Synthetic PP (poly prop) had melting issues on metal bases. So I switched to paper.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Okay. Good to know.
> 
> My Oppo BDP-103D can decode all SACD, DVD Audio and Blu-ray Audio and send via RCA. Should I give that a blast?
> Obviously it will be using the players DAC.


 

 Yes. Then you can skip your external DAC and send directly to a preamp. This is what I do with my McIntosh MVP 861 when playing SACD's.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Since noise has been a topic of late, pleased to report that my little issue with noise from high gain drivers was remedied switching to toslink from USB more fully reported in the WA6 WA6SE thread.


----------



## 3083joe

Quick question for all. 
Has anyone used the 6BL7 in the wa22?

Though we could but got this from woo today 
"Hi Joe,

I checked with Jack and he said "WA22 power supply cannot handle 6BL7's fliament current. It is too large”.

Thanks for being a Woo Audio customer!

~ Mike Liang
1-872-222-9667"
Thanks for any insight. Seem Glenn thinks it would work and I do also but.......


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Every amplifier is guaranteed to perform as designed when purchased new from us or through an authorized reseller. We back this with a 14 day full refund policy, 30 day warranty on tubes, and one year warranty on amp. We can _not_ guarantee performance of the amp if the user use tubes purchased from a third-party or makes modifications to the amplifier. 
  
 If you're experiencing an issue with our products, please email us at info@wooaudio.com or call us during business hours. We can't help you if you don't reach out.
  
 872-222-9667


----------



## 3083joe

No complaints here


----------



## WooAudio

Regarding noisy power tubes on the WA22, it is quite contrary to what we found. In fact, most noise issues we have encountered would come from 6SN7. Many tubes sold on eBay are not properly tested. They were mostly tested on a generic tube tester which couldn't tell if the tube is noise or not. Of course, you could find good tubes with a low price, but there is a bit of luck involved. We tested all our tubes on the actual amp so you can expect they will work well.  To add to the topic, we would use NOS as much as we could find them because those are good. However, NOS supply is dropping every day so one day they would dry up and we have to look for an alternative.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Quick question for all.
> Has anyone used the 6BL7 in the wa22?
> 
> Though we could but got this from woo today
> ...


 
 The same is said about using the 6SN7 tubes in the WA6-*SE* but...


----------



## Badas

wooaudio said:


> Regarding noisy power tubes on the WA22, it is quite contrary to what we found. In fact, most noise issues we have encountered would come from 6SN7. Many tubes sold on eBay are not properly tested. They were mostly tested on a generic tube tester which couldn't tell if the tube is noise or not. Of course, you could find good tubes with a low price, but there is a bit of luck involved. We tested all our tubes on the actual amp so you can expect they will work well.  To add to the topic, we would use NOS as much as we could find them because those are good. However, NOS supply is dropping every day so one day they would dry up and we have to look for an alternative.


 

 That is not my situation.
  
 I transferred all my tubes to an older WA22. Dead quiet.
  
 Then transferred my power tubes to a WA2. Dead quiet.
  
 Put the quiet power tubes that were tested in the WA2 and older WA22 in my WA22. Really noisy. Changed to a different power tube. Dead quiet.
  
 My WA22 does not like some brands of 6080 power tubes. I really liked the Mullard 6080 power tubes and purchased 5 sets from 3 different sellers. All NOS from different years. Some were better than others however all were noisy. All noisy power tubes were then tested in a WA2. All were quiet.
  
 Any thoughts or comments to 274B tubes making the transformers hum in a lot of WA22's?


----------



## WooAudio

:Badas - Do you have two WA22 and one WA2 in your possession? PM, email or call in so we will get to know it.


----------



## Badas

wooaudio said:


> :Badas - Do you have two WA22 and one WA2 in your possession? PM, email or call in so we will get to know it.


 

 I use to know someone local with an older WA22. He has moved now.
  
 I tested in the WA2 from the shop where I purchased my WA22 from (computer lounge). I'm from New Zealand (long way away).
  
 That is how I found out my amp is not up to scratch.
  
 I lent a lot of tubes to another local WA22 owner. Including Mullards. I wonder if he used and it was quiet in his amp (new build)? He is often on the threads and might comment.


----------



## WooAudio

We don't sell to Computer Lounge in New Zealand. The originality of the amp is unknown and you definitely should reach out to us. Please take this topic offline so you will get a full attention.


----------



## Badas

wooaudio said:


> We don't sell to Computer Lounge in New Zealand. The originality of the amp is unknown and you definitely should reach out to us. Please take this topic offline so you will get a full attention.


 

 Cool.


----------



## 3083joe

Maybe one of the best albums of all time.


----------



## phase0

I hope your situation gets sorted out Badas. I'm really enjoying my amp now. Amazing. I just ordered some Mullard GZ34 to try. They're not metal base. They're regular and 5 notch which someone told me is better than 7 notch. I really have no idea.
  
 This tube guy I was talking to found someone with a box of 50 NOS NU 6F8G. He's not planning to get them since I said they aren't ideal in my amp so I won't want to buy a bunch. I thought I'd mention it here since it could work for someone else. If anyone had some kind of interest I could put you in touch with the tube dealer. I'm not trying to find a pair that works in the WA5. 6C8G works fine and I'm happy with it.


----------



## Contrails

Badas, 
  
 Mine is the late 2015 build as you know and I have been testing mine for hum this morning.  Which tubes are you having trouble with? I have the Bendix 6080wb, NU 6f8g and GZ32 plugged into mine.  Initially, when I turned the amp on in Low Impedance mode, I put the volume pot all the way up.  I didn't play any music and just listened, I thought I heard a very slight hum in the right channel.  The amp is located next to the TV and the receiver and they were both ON (at zero volume).  Very very low but it would go away when I would turn the volume all the way down.  I then played some music for about 15 mins and turned the music off. I then turned both the TV and the receiver off too.  Tried again with the volume all the way up but the hum seemed to have gone.  
  
 Then I tried again in High Impedance settings.  No hum.  
  
 I will try some other tubes this arvo and report back.
  
 BTW, Police - no time this time has been on repeat.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Badas,
> 
> Mine is the late 2015 build as you know and I have been testing mine for hum this morning.  Which tubes are you having trouble with? I have the Bendix 6080wb, NU 6f8g and GZ32 plugged into mine.  Initially, when I turned the amp on in Low Impedance mode, I put the volume pot all the way up.  I didn't play any music and just listened, I thought I heard a very slight hum in the right channel.  The amp is located next to the TV and the receiver and they were both ON (at zero volume).  Very very low but it would go away when I would turn the volume all the way down.  I then played some music for about 15 mins and turned the music off. I then turned both the TV and the receiver off too.  Tried again with the volume all the way up but the hum seemed to have gone.
> 
> ...




Just power tubes mate.

It is noise not a hum. If you put in the Mullards I gave you they should be as noisy as can be. In my amp it sounds like radio static. 

In the other two Woo amps I tested they were quiet.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok , folks. Can anyone give me some insight on the differences between 5R4G vs 5Z4G? 
Thanks!


----------



## joseph69

guidostrunk said:


> Ok , folks. Can anyone give me some insight on the differences between 5R4G vs 5Z4G?
> Thanks!


 
 One tube has an R in it and the other has a Z in it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Sorry, I don't know but you set yourself up for that one and I had to do it!


----------



## Badas

guidostrunk said:


> Ok , folks. Can anyone give me some insight on the differences between 5R4G vs 5Z4G?
> Thanks!




Totally different internal and importantly plate structure. So they should be very different sounding.


----------



## Guidostrunk

LMAO! 


joseph69 said:


> One tube has an R in it and the other has a Z in it.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know but you set yourself up for that one and I had to do it!


----------



## joseph69

guidostrunk said:


> LMAO!


 
 Glad to see you can take a joke. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Enjoy your tube rolling!


----------



## Porteroso

I do hope that badas gets his issue sorted out. I've never heard of anyone else having a real problem with their woo amp. The closest would be me, who got an amp second hand from someone who did who-knows-what to it. He stripped half the screw threads to the chassis, apparently wanted to glue in aftermarket feet for the amp, but it does seem he didn't mess with the internals.
  
 Anyways, my questions to Woo have always been met with promptness and just plain being helpful. I think that sometimes, any company will make a mistake, but a small one like Woo cannot survive their reputation being tarnished, whether it's warranted or not. I do hope that Woo takes their CS emails seriously, and I also hope that people who are using tubes and adapters not made/sold by Woo will take their purchases with a grain of salt. *&%^ might go down when you mess around with a tube amp. I know badas knows this, and it sounds like he has a legitimate complaint.
  
 Hopefully he gets sorted out to his satisfaction, and we all get to move on!
  
 Also just found out that my WA6 was before the pseudo dual power supply was added as stock. Probably going to get that rectified. I'm hoping the whole thing just gets more open and big sounding. I plugged my PS500s into a NAD speaker amp I just got, and I will say, there is a lot to be said for the way they sounded.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Glad to see that there's people like myself. I'm always jacking someone. Cheers bro! Lol.


joseph69 said:


> Glad to see you can take a joke.
> Enjoy your tube rolling!


----------



## Contrails

Ok,
  
 Did some further testing this arvo.  Here's a summary.
  
 Bendix 6080wb:  Initially thought that maybe theres a hum.  No static noise.  There's sort of ting sound, the one the you hear when the tubes are warming up.  But this was present even after listening to music for about 15 mins.  If I tap on the volume knob, I can hear it through the headphones. 
  
 RCA 6sa7g Black plates: Yep there was hum and static noise present.  First the Right channel.  Then decided to switch the tubes and the noise switched sides.  It also popped a couple of times. Noise was clearly evident and was getting worse, bad tube most likely.  I had to turn the amp off. 
  
 Mullard 6080: No hum but very slight static noise. When I tapped on the volume knob, no changes or extra sounds were heard.  
  
 Badas, have you tried the stock tubes Woo provided with the amp? I will drop the extra tubes I have this weekend if you are free.  I can drop off the WA22 if you like and you can test it.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Ok,
> 
> Did some further testing this arvo.  Here's a summary.
> 
> ...




Interesting. The Mullards sound like a buzzing bee in the ear in my amp. Dead silent in the older WA22 that I tested 9 months ago.

Nah! Don't bring your amp. It is not very portable. Probably a high risk of damage moving it around.

I have sent Woo a PM as they have asked. Let's see what happens.


----------



## Contrails

> Nah! Don't bring your amp. It is not very portable. Probably a high risk of damage moving it around


 
  
 When I bought the Wa22 from A2A in Melbourne, I took it with me on the tram to the city and then got on the sky bus to the airport (I had a stop over in Melbourne on the way to Auckland).  People did look at me funny as I was walking around Melbourne city with this big brown box saying Woo Audio on it.  So, when Customs at the airport asked me what was in the box, I told him its some cheap chinese made amp I picked up through gumtree.


----------



## 3083joe

guidostrunk said:


> Ok , folks. Can anyone give me some insight on the differences between 5R4G vs 5Z4G?
> Thanks!



Don't know the difference but the R sound better to me. Maybe ask Glenn. I'm sure he can tell you.


----------



## 3083joe

6BL7/HD800 = amazing!


----------



## 3083joe

Just an FYI 
Cardas cable blow away audio quest. Hands down.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> 6BL7/HD800 = amazing!


 

 Interesting. Did you use in the WA22? Did you use two or an adapter to hold four? Any pics?


----------



## 3083joe

Single!


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Single!


 

 Excellent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The sound?
  
 I remember you like the GEC6AS7G. Which I found had a neutral flavour.
 I like the Mullard 6080. Which you found muddied.
  
 Are the 6BL7's a neutral or warmish flavor? There is two different plate designs. What style did you grab?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Excellent.
> 
> The sound?
> 
> ...



The sounds interesting. 
Bass way more present on hd800. 
More holographic but very early in listening. (Reminds me more of the 5998s) lots more gain than 6as7! 
Will say more tonight. 
I have both plate designs. 
I'll have to look to see which these Sylvania are, as I haven't listen to the other ones (Tung Sol.) but there are a little bit taller.


----------



## Contrails

6BL7, hmmmmm interesting. 
  
 Anyway, I switched the WA22 to High Impedance setting for the LCD-X and I find I prefer the sound more than the LO setting.  I need to do some more testing.  I am waiting for a friend to bring his HD650 over.  I am gonna have a good listen and maybe if it's worth it then sell the LCD-X. 
  
 Also, I managed to find some Mullard ECC31 locally.  And all I can say is WoW! A definite step up in details and smoothness. Less harsh than the NU6c8g/6f8g.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> 6BL7, hmmmmm interesting.
> 
> Anyway, I switched the WA22 to High Impedance setting for the LCD-X and I find I prefer the sound more than the LO setting.  I need to do some more testing.  I am waiting for a friend to bring his HD650 over.  I am gonna have a good listen and maybe if it's worth it then sell the LCD-X.
> 
> Also, I managed to find some Mullard ECC31 locally.  And all I can say is WoW! A definite step up in details and smoothness. Less harsh than the NU6c8g/6f8g.


 
  
 Maybe I should try my LCD-X on high. One issue I can see happening is the volume. My volume rarely gets above 25% and I already find the stepped control a pain (one is too loud the other too low). This will get worst with more gain.
  
 Worth a look tho.
  
 Did the local supplier have another set of ECC31's?


----------



## abvolt

Interesting had no idea the 6BL7's would work with the wa22 very cool..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Interesting had no idea the 6BL7's would work with the wa22 very cool..


 

 I've known for a long time but never really got to it. If there is a good sound improvement then I will investigate.
  
 I'm a bit worried about noise in my amp tho.


----------



## abvolt

Cool thanks..


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I've known for a long time but never really got to it. If there is a good sound improvement then I will investigate.
> 
> I'm a bit worried about noise in my amp tho.


 

 I hope you get it all sorted soon    Oh, and have the GZ30s arrive yet? Looking forward to your impressions.
 Cheers.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> I hope you get it all sorted soon    Oh, and have the GZ30s arrive yet? Looking forward to your impressions.
> Cheers.




Lost. 

James from Langrex has sent a couple more with tracking this time.


----------



## Badas

I know it is not Woo related, however you guys are the best guys I know on this site.

For the first time in a while I'm giving HP's a rest.

Tonight I'm doing Guns and Roses on Vinyl and loads of beer. 

Nothing like pumping 280 watts bi-amped into each 300 watt speaker plus two 1000 watt SVS subs plus a 450 watt Polk sub. 

I just took a SPL reading and it was reaching 119db. Might have to turn it down just a little to save my ears.


----------



## asxtan

Wow 6bl7 are direct subs for power tubes.  That's great another option that doesn't seem too expensive.  What driver tubes are those Joe?


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Lost.
> 
> James from Langrex has sent a couple more with tracking this time.


 

 Bummer!   One of my orders from them went astray. Gave it three weeks and nada. A tracked replacement is on its way.  Interestingly, I got a phishing email at the address I used and it stated unusual activity on my eBay account in the UK and to click on a link to login. Of course I did not.  My assumption is that whomever jacked the package captured the data and is also involved in phishing or sold the address to someone else...Sad part is they probably tossed the NOS in the bin.
  
 Enjoy the speakers!


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Nothing like pumping 280 watts bi-amped into each 300 watt speaker plus two 1000 watt SVS subs plus a 450 watt Polk sub.
> 
> I just took a SPL reading and it was reaching 119db. Might have to turn it down just a little to save my ears.


 
 I might have to start taking your listening impressions with a grain of salt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.newenglandhearing.com/blog/bid/139326/Noise-Level-Chart


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> I might have to start taking your listening impressions with a grain of salt.
> 
> http://www.newenglandhearing.com/blog/bid/139326/Noise-Level-Chart




 Yip. 

I didn't have it at that volume for long. It did sound freakin amazing at that volume, however I only kept it there for a few minutes. 

Crazy thing is subwoofers are only operating at 25% and were powerful enough to massage the chest. 
Power amps had another 10db power range to go before they were working hard. At the 119db peak level the system seemed to be cruising. No sign of power struggle. 

It is why I run four 30 amp power supplies behind my main rack.


----------



## Badas

Back to HP's this morning.

One think I do love about HP's that is not often talked about is that you can get a very warm sound at moderate volumes. With speakers you need to fill the room with volume.

Also speaking of protecting ears. When doing very long HP sessions (I'm doing a 3-4 hour one now) do you guys give your ears a rest? I do. Every hour on the hour. I pause then take a 5 minute rest / walk. Then come back to the session and make sure the volume is not too loud.
It is very easy to get use to a loud volume on long sessions.


----------



## leftside

Is it ok to use socket savers with adapters? Or you just have to use adapters?


----------



## Porteroso

It is fine, yes. Obviously you'd hope the internal wiring would be pretty decent, but it's such short length that it does not affect anything negatively.


----------



## 3083joe

asxtan said:


> Wow 6bl7 are direct subs for power tubes.  That's great another option that doesn't seem too expensive.  What driver tubes are those Joe?



Mullard ecc35s


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> Is it ok to use socket savers with adapters? Or you just have to use adapters?


 
  
 Why have more junk in the way are you rolling 100's of different tubes ? less connections are always better..


----------



## leftside

abvolt said:


> Why have more junk in the way are you rolling 100's of different tubes ? less connections are always better..


 
  
 That's what I figured. Not 100's, just 10's


----------



## Porteroso

leftside said:


> abvolt said:
> 
> 
> > Why have more junk in the way are you rolling 100's of different tubes ? less connections are always better..
> ...


 
 Yeah, I used to run a stack of adapters, there were spacers, then one adapter, then a second set of adapters... It's just simpler, and looks better, to cut down on the adapters. All for the low cost of about 90 bucks! Not a cheap hobby we are all in.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> It is very easy to get use to a loud volume on long sessions.


 

 Agreed! When I come back from a short break often am able to decrease the volume...  I did pick up a db meter to make sure I am not going too loud.


----------



## Stereolab42

abvolt said:


> Why have more junk in the way are you rolling 100's of different tubes ? less connections are always better..


 
  
 Because wearing out the sockets on an amp that costs thousands of dollars is worst than a few extra inches of wiring.


----------



## leftside

I've noticed some of you have "upgraded" Woo's. Is this something done after market? Are there companies that do upgrades to the Woo's?


----------



## phase0

I have the new WA5 released around 2015 July/August. The older edition WA5 and WA5LE had a cheaper base build and then you could purchase an expensive upgrade option with better components. The new edition is only offered with those upgraded components and comes at the more expensive price point. I'm not sure about the other Woo Amps. I thought they may offer some upgrades. You can always email WooAudio and see what they can do. There's a few electronics wizards out there too who can probably do some after market mods.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> I've noticed some of you have "upgraded" Woo's. Is this something done after market? Are there companies that do upgrades to the Woo's?


 

 I think you should search threads by seamaster- he had his wa22 modified by modwright I think.


----------



## Torq

phase0 said:


> I have the new WA5 released around 2015 July/August. The older edition WA5 and WA5LE had a cheaper base build and then you could purchase an expensive upgrade option with better components. The new edition is only offered with those upgraded components and comes at the more expensive price point. I'm not sure about the other Woo Amps. I thought they may offer some upgrades. You can always email WooAudio and see what they can do. There's a few electronics wizards out there too who can probably do some after market mods.




The new WA5 has the upgraded parts as standard.

The new WA5 LE still has them as a $1200 option with the base build being cheaper.


----------



## 3083joe

Man, keep going back to the 6BL7s......
Just can't get over the holographic sound! 
And for pennies in comparison to GEC6AS7s
Hmmmmm.......


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Man, keep going back to the 6BL7s......
> Just can't get over the holographic sound!
> And for pennies in comparison to GEC6AS7s
> Hmmmmm.......




Are they just a straight plug in power tube? Is there a adapter needed for the WA22?
What is the gain like compared to a 6080?
There is two different plate designs. Have you tried both and which is the best?

Sorry that was a lot of questions. :rolleyes:


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Man, keep going back to the 6BL7s......
> Just can't get over the holographic sound!
> And for pennies in comparison to GEC6AS7s
> Hmmmmm.......


 

 That's sayin' alot.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> That's sayin' alot.



I know. There's something about them that draws me back. I like things about both but the 6BL7 keep winning. For 25-50 you can try them NOS matched.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Are they just a straight plug in power tube? Is there a adapter needed for the WA22?
> What is the gain like compared to a 6080?
> There is two different plate designs. Have you tried both and which is the best?
> 
> Sorry that was a lot of questions. :rolleyes:



No adapter needed. 
Jack advised against using but they are only .5 more that a 6as7. 
So use at your own risk. (Glenn said no issues with one for sure and probably with 2 also, but don't go three)
With my 6as7s I run around 12-1 o'clock. 
With 6Bl7 I run around 10 
The ones I'm using are like a flat plate rapped around round ones kinda like mixing flat plate with round plate 6sn7s with top 0 getters 
They have side getters but don't have them also they have D Getters.


----------



## Badas

^

Thanks. I wil put a set on my to buy list. 

I'm getting and installing the Auralic Vega DAC next weekend. So I will concentrate on that first.


----------



## phase0

Well my socket savers came in today. I'm a little bit skeptical that they will help. The 300B tubes are a tougher fit in the socket save than the real socket. I pushed them in as far as I can but I still see a little air gap on them. If I wanted to swap 300Bs I think the savers will come out easier than the tube would come out of the saver. Likewise one of the 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters moves easier than the tube from the adapter. I suppose with these subtle make variations you just have to deal as best as you can.
  

  
 Now I started to wonder, how many insert/removals of tubes does it take to wear out a socket? and how expensive/difficult is it to get a socket replaced?


----------



## 3083joe

phase0 said:


> Well my socket savers came in today. I'm a little bit skeptical that they will help. The 300B tubes are a tougher fit in the socket save than the real socket. I pushed them in as far as I can but I still see a little air gap on them. If I wanted to swap 300Bs I think the savers will come out easier than the tube would come out of the saver. Likewise one of the 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters moves easier than the tube from the adapter. I suppose with these subtle make variations you just have to deal as best as you can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you wiggle the tube while holding the saver they will come out pretty easy and the more you take them in and out the looser they get. 
Love mine honestly after 6 months or so.


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Are they just a straight plug in power tube? Is there a adapter needed for the WA22?
> ...


 
 WA22 is rated at 3A/channel for power tubes and 6BL7 heater current is 1.5A i wonder why they advise against it ?


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> WA22 is rated at 3A/channel for power tubes and 6BL7 heater current is 1.5A i wonder why they advise against it ?



No clue. I think it was a misunderstanding between Mike and jack because I first asked for 3 6bl7 to 1 6080 adapters.


----------



## 3083joe

I have a NOS quad set in order from Brent jessee 
When they come I try out the 2 to 1 adapters.


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > WA22 is rated at 3A/channel for power tubes and 6BL7 heater current is 1.5A i wonder why they advise against it ?
> ...


 

 if you check data sheet 6as7g heater current is 2.5A ,5998 is 2.4A , 6BL7 heater current is 1.5A .


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> if you check data sheet 6as7g heater current is 2.5A ,5998 is 2.4A , 6BL7 heater current is 1.5A .



I know. Doesn't make sense why jack would say not too. 
This is what was sent to me 
"I checked with Jack and he said "WA22 power supply cannot handle 6BL7's fliament current. It is too large”.


----------



## Khragon

I wouldn't worry about the sockets, they will last a good while, no point having unsightly savers and having to use one hand to hold them in place, risking you removing the tubes too quickly and knocking them into the amp/or other tubes. These are point to point build so replacement is very easy.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

The semi portable (my words) WA8 really interests me.  Just decided, we will blast over CanJam SoCal tomorrow to check Woo out. 
  
*Road Trip!  *
  
4AM departure, 400+ miles to get to the ocean.  Woo Hoo!  The abbreviated visit should lessen the chance of a significant impact on the charge plate, ha ha. Less time to visit vendors!  With my conscience in attendance, that should curb chance orders of a set of the WA234 .  In addition, do want to audition the HD800*, Grado and Audeze.


----------



## Khragon

I listened to the WA8 today, and it's good, but I can't help but worry that these are underpowered, with the HD800, the volume needs to be at 9/10 to get listenable level. I can't access it much at the meet environment. Build quality is solid, the gold looks classy.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

khragon said:


> I listened to the WA8 today, and it's good, but I can't help but worry that these are underpowered, with the HD800, the volume needs to be at 9/10 to get listenable level. I can't access it much at the meet environment. Build quality is solid, the gold looks classy.


 

 Cool.  Thank you.  Will keep in mind.  Thanks.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks to Badas, enjoying these bad boys tonight.  Take a guess which tubes.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Thanks to Badas, enjoying these bad boys tonight.  Take a guess which tubes.


 

 That's a nice glow pic (better than I can take). Are you enjoying the sound?


----------



## abvolt

Wow that is a nice pic..Enjoy


----------



## Herueyes

khragon said:


> I listened to the WA8 today, and it's good, but I can't help but worry that these are underpowered, with the HD800, the volume needs to be at 9/10 to get listenable level. I can't access it much at the meet environment. Build quality is solid, the gold looks classy.


 
  
  
 Hmmmm... Interesting... I like my music loud and when I was comparing the HD800 to the HM EditionX using the WA8 I couldn't remember the volume being an issue... In fact I remember having to turn it down somewhat... It was lower than 9/10 for sure - The music was coming via WiFi from Tidal using Jack's personal Sony NW-ZX2... It was going digitally via the ZX2 into the USB of the WA8 and was plenty Loud. I remember turning the volume up and deciding to turn it back down 'cause it was TOO LOUD for my taste... The WA8 has plenty of headroom if you ask me... I had my friends ifi micro iDSD and totally forgot to compare it to the WA8... I'll keep my eye out for one...
  
  
  

  

  

  
 The WA8 Rocks... The pricepoint is the only issue I can see and she gets warm(but that's expected)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Peace...


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I have a NOS quad set in order from Brent jessee
> When they come I try out the 2 to 1 adapters.


 

 You know. That could be very interesting.
  
 If this works this could give the capability to put two different plate versions together. Blend two different power tube sounds.
 There is a little dot amp that has 4 power tubes that gives this capability. Users rave about the ability.


----------



## abvolt

I'd surely agree with that the prospects are very intriguing..


----------



## audiotechn0

I know I am in the wrong place to say this, but I never understood these elaborate amp setups. I know to you guys is it awesome but to me it looks like you guys are going to war with your ears.


----------



## abvolt

audiotechn0 said:


> I know I am in the wrong place to say this, but I never understood these elaborate amp setups. I know to you guys is it awesome but to me it looks like you guys are going to war with your ears.


 
  
 I understand what your saying but please keep in mind this is a hobby and a passion for most of us to get the very most out of our amps..


----------



## audiotechn0

It's all in good fun. I am just more into larger audio systems.


----------



## Badas

audiotechn0 said:


> It's all in good fun. I am just more into larger audio systems.


 

 I have both dude and I can tell you my Woo amp and HP's outperform my large audio system.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I have both dude and I can tell you my Woo amp and HP's outperform my large audio system.



 Same with mine compared to my dads large system.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> I know. Doesn't make sense why jack would say not too.
> This is what was sent to me
> "I checked with Jack and he said "WA22 power supply cannot handle 6BL7's fliament current. It is too large”.


 

 Do the 6BL7s' match to an OTL design (i.e. WA2) as well?  I know the WA22 is transformer coupled output.


----------



## 3083joe

I'm so confident in the 6BL7s that I'm selling my backup pair of GEC 6AS7s


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Do the 6BL7s' match to an OTL design (i.e. WA2) as well?  I know the WA22 is transformer coupled output.



From what I hear from Glenn yes, but you should PM him about it.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I'm so confident in the 6BL7s that I'm selling my backup pair of GEC 6AS7s


 


 (I mean this in a funny way)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ya got me. I was right on the edge. I wanted to sort out my Vega DAC first then look at these tubes. However ya tipped me. I've ordered a pair (from Canada so they will take a while).
  
 I do have a little concern that the higher gain of the 6C8G drivers might load the 6BL7 a little too much. We shall see.
  
 Mullard GZ30's arrived. I will test these in a few weeks when I get more time.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> (I mean this in a funny way)
> 
> Ya got me. I was right on the edge. I wanted to sort out my Vega DAC first then look at these tubes. However ya tipped me. I've ordered a pair (from Canada so they will take a while).
> 
> ...



For the cost it's worth. But for me the female vocal has been transformed with the 6bl7. And that's what has changed it for me. With GEC I just couldn't really get into the female voice like I normally would have. But now......


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> For the cost it's worth. But for me the female vocal has been transformed with the 6bl7. And that's what has changed it for me. With GEC I just couldn't really get into the female voice like I normally would have. But now......


 

 I look forward to giving them a blast. I studied the plate design from your pics and bought a pair the same. Labeled Regency brand.
  

  
  
 According to Glenn the flat plate design with a ladder indent is even nicer.


----------



## Badas

If anyone is interested in the Tung Sol round plate drivers.
  
 This is a good auction and a fair price:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Tung-Sol-JAN-CTL-6SU7GT-military-issue-matching-pair-6SL7GT-equiv-/222060266826?hash=item33b3d2c54a:g:EhIAAOSwu1VW74Kn
  
 These will work on any 6SN7 driver Woo amps. 6SU7 is a military version of the 6SL7/6C8G.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

When visiting with Jack at CanJam SoCal yesterday, I asked about wearing out sockets swapping tubes. This topic has been discussed here of late.  He indicated that he builds with teflon coatings to facilitate the rolling process and add long life.  If you are not swapping tubes constantly, every fifteen minutes he jokingly said, you should have nothing to worry about.  If the sockets become loose, the spring tension for the individual pins can apparently easily be tweaked.

 I have been contemplating upgrading the amp at my primary workstation.  A second WA6SE simply sacrifices too much real estate and regrettably has to be ruled out. A logical  alternative is WA6 as all the tubes of WA6SE can be utilized in both and quite a mighty inventory of options is accumulating. However, the WA6 dimensions, exposed tubes and heat can be detrimental for the proposed installation. The excursion to CanJam took place mainly to meet the small battery capable WA8 and am pleased to report that it is a magnificent  piece of kit that sounds wonderful.
  
 It is easy to envision utilizing WA8 as a perfect option when relaxing on the porch or moving to one location or another and being able to enjoy HQ sounds. The portability and battery power shine. This could also be a suitable primary amp and certainly will satisfy for a fine office amp. I do not consider it an option when out for a stroll, but if you have a fanny pack or backpack, why not?  Funny,the tubes are so very dinky.  They are little larger than holiday 'fairy' lights. Jack indicated that he has a considerable supply of these old Russian military valves. I did check out the volume levels as @Khragon suggested and for my taste the volume knob was more than adequate with significant throttle in reserve. In retrospect, the unit was plugged in at the time, so I do not know if that may have any impact. It probably does not, but I did not check it battery only. It was running off a Sony player and adapter. Tried different cans to get a broad picture.  Very nice I was a little distracted with another offering.
  
 The WA7 Second Generation was also on demo and it appears to be superb in every manner. Maybe a little too wonderful, oh noes! Shucks, it meets the parameters of compact size and non-exposed tubes. In addition very little heat! The DAC and some other internals apparently have been upgraded in the second generation. I am very impressed with this offering. Instead of CanJam helping make a choice, seems I now have three heavy contenders in the ring. Lots of factors to weigh prior to making a decision, if any. Of course no decision is a decision. The WA7 is so very nice, do I need the WA8 when I have other players that are much more portable and adequate? Hmmmm,,,,,
  
 My largest takeaway from the Woo display, in addition to how great Jack, Mike and the other crew are, is falling in love with the feel of a set of headphones.  Can you say Audeze LCD-X? These were attached to the wonderful WA7 Second Generation.  Utter bliss wearing these cans.  Of all the dozens of phones I wore yesterday, these cans did not just hit a home run, they hit a grand slam for comfort!!! Wonderful, wonderful...oh and I found no fault with how they sounded either, but I was more astonished with how good they fit instead of doing good listening and I know I had a huge prejudice because they are so very comfy.  Good gosh, might have to get those just for comfort! Who cares about the sonics, ha ha. A funny note is that one of the listeners on the LCD-X WA7 combo got so into the zone that he started to sing along with music with his eyes closed and he did not even realize it. Everyone in the room had a grin on that!
  
 Of course Woo had live display WDS-1, WA22s, WA5s, etc. some of which were paired with Abyss cans. What sonic Nirvana. Thanks Abyss and Woo for the treat! I now certainly am getting an idea of high these amps can scale.
  
 Many vendors are utilizing Woo products in part to power their displays. It was nice to see Woo so well represented/regarded.
  
 Here is a quick snap shot of Jack posed for pix with the little dude.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I have both dude and I can tell you my Woo amp and HP's outperform my large audio system.


 
 +1 Only thing missing is the wooden floor vibrating along with body slams..  Wire in one of the subs maybe, ha ha.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


badas said:


> Mullard GZ30's arrived. I will test these in a few weeks when I get more time.


 
 Glad the long awaited tubes have arrived.  Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> +1 Only thing missing is the wooden floor vibrating along with body slams..  Wire in one of the subs maybe, ha ha.


 
  
 I have a buttkicker system as part of my home theater that can do this. I can actually turn it on with my HP listening.
  
 So I can get vibrations and shakes throughout my chair while listening.
  
 A bit of a gimmick tho. So I don't.
  
  
 Buttkicker amp sitting on a SVS SB Ultra 13 sub. It takes the sub line signal and amplifies.
  

  
 Then I have three buttkicker LFE's installed under my seat to produce slam and shake. It is so powerful it vibrates drinks in the cupholders. Like the famous Jurassic Park water in cup scene.
  
 The buttkicker LFE's are like a speaker. Powered by wire from the buttkicker amp. Except they don't produce any noise. Just all shake.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

LMAO - thanks so much for sharing!!!  Love it!  Jurassic Park shake. Fantastic. Darn, you do have some fun with this!


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I look forward to giving them a blast. I studied the plate design from your pics and bought a pair the same. Labeled Regency brand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Like this I assume.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Like this I assume.


 

 That's the suckers. A ladder with 3 steps plus 3 punch holes down each side.
  
 They demand more $$'s tho.


----------



## asxtan

Hey Badas, thx for the tip on the tung sol 6su7gts.  My NU 6f8g are still somewhere on the way and not expected to arrive till april according to ebay estimate.  I will hopefully get these 6su7gt in sooner since shipping from the states.


----------



## Badas

asxtan said:


> Hey Badas, thx for the tip on the tung sol 6su7gts.  My NU 6f8g are still somewhere on the way and not expected to arrive till april according to ebay estimate.  I will hopefully get these 6su7gt in sooner since shipping from the states.


 

 It was probably the best buy I spotted on ebay this morning. I would have bought them myself if I wasn't already set with Tung-Sol round plates.


----------



## Contrails

> I will hopefully get these 6su7gt in sooner since shipping from the states.


 
  
 Suppose to be very good tubes the 6su7gty.  Look forward to hearing your impressions.
  
 Listening to Metallica S&M album.  Absolutely amazing.  _Rolling Stone review_ (January 20, 2000, pp. 57–59)  - "...create the most crowded, ceiling-rattling basement rec room in rock....[in its] sheer awesomeness...the live performance succeeded....the monster numbers benefit from supersizing. The effect is more one of timelessness..."[10]


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Suppose to be very good tubes the 6su7gty.  Look forward to hearing your impressions.
> 
> Listening to Metallica S&M album.  Absolutely amazing.  _Rolling Stone
> review_ (January 20, 2000, pp. 57–59)  - "...create the most crowded, ceiling-rattling basement rec room in rock....[in its] sheer awesomeness...the live performance succeeded....the monster numbers benefit from supersizing. The effect is more one of timelessness..."[10]




Are you using the Woo for that album? I thought a tube amp would be too slow.


----------



## Contrails

> Are you using the Woo for that album? I thought a tube amp would be too slow


 
  
 Yep that's what I initially thought.  I think the LCD-X are made for this album.  They would sound better with a hybrid/SS amp but the WA22 gives that 3d holographic soundstage, beautiful mids, and the bass is actually very good.  It doesn't hit as hard as a SS amp but the bass details are still there and the rest is definitely better than SS.  The treble has that sparkle and on high notes during guitar solos and vocals it just sound epic.  
  
 When I auditioned the LCD-X and 3F, I listened to this album and the headphones were plugged into the Algo Rhythm portable tube amp.  The tone of the X sounded so right and I knew tube amp with the X was the way forward for me.  I have listened to this album with the Lafigarro 339 amp and He500 and that amp struggled at times especially in the bass.  It's very evident during Double stroke drumming on some songs. 
  
 Next on the list - Iron Maiden, live in Chile!


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> (I mean this in a funny way)
> 
> Ya got me. I was right on the edge. I wanted to sort out my Vega DAC first then look at these tubes. However ya tipped me. I've ordered a pair (from Canada so they will take a while).
> 
> ...




Just ordered these


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Just ordered these


 

 I noticed those ones yesterday. I put them in my watch list along with the other set from Aussie. I knew you would buy a set so I thought I would let you go first. I may buy the Aussie set now. Or I may wait and make sure the first set I purchased are quiet in my amp.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Yep that's what I initially thought.  I think the LCD-X are made for this album.  They would sound better with a hybrid/SS amp but the WA22 gives that 3d holographic soundstage, beautiful mids, and the bass is actually very good.  It doesn't hit as hard as a SS amp but the bass details are still there and the rest is definitely better than SS.  The treble has that sparkle and on high notes during guitar solos and vocals it just sound epic.
> 
> When I auditioned the LCD-X and 3F, I listened to this album and the headphones were plugged into the Algo Rhythm portable tube amp.  The tone of the X sounded so right and I knew tube amp with the X was the way forward for me.  I have listened to this album with the Lafigarro 339 amp and He500 and that amp struggled at times especially in the bass.  It's very evident during Double stroke drumming on some songs.
> 
> Next on the list - Iron Maiden, live in Chile!


 
  
 I will have to give the album a listen now.


----------



## Contrails

Yes, I reckon it will sound even better on your home theatre! @Badas


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> Just ordered these


 
  
 I just ordered  a pair of sylvania 6bl7's anxious to here these after your posts. Currently enjoying the ts 5998's wow those are really nice..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I just ordered  a pair of sylvania 6bl7's anxious to here these after your posts. Currently enjoying the ts 5998's wow those are really nice..


 

 I've never got my hands on the mighty 5998. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've always wanted to. Closest I've got is the Chatham 6AS7G and it is very nice.
  
 Did you get the flat plate 6BL7's?
  
 Can you give me a shootout between 5998 and 6BL7?
 If 6BL7 is close then I can die in peace.


----------



## abvolt

Yeah the ts 5998's have impressed me so much that I haven't removed them from my amp since I got them, so far my seconds are the mullard 6080's and I really enjoy those, You should try the 5998's if you get a chance very excellent sounding..Enjoy
  
 Just thought I'd add this As a matter of fact, Tung-Sol occasionally made 5998 for Western Electric, and labelled it as 421A..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Yeah the ts 5998's have impressed me so much that I haven't removed them from my amp since I got them, so far my seconds are the mullard 6080's and I really enjoy those, You should try the 5998's if you get a chance very excellent sounding..Enjoy
> 
> Just thought I'd add this As a matter of fact, *Tung-Sol occasionally made 5998 for Western Electric, and labelled it as 421A..*


 
  
 Yip and Chatham made them for Tung-Sol early on.
  
 These tube companies were all over each other.


----------



## abvolt

Right-on dude you know your tube history..


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Speaking of tubes, see what arrived today!
  
  
 !
  
 Interestingly the top plate has handwriting.
  

  
 Either my wishful thinking or this does seem to take the music to another level.


----------



## Contrails

596?


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Sorry - GE 1641 (RK60)


----------



## longbowbbs

contrails said:


> 596?


 
 RK-60 I Believe.
  

 RK-60 on the Left. USAF-596 on the right.


----------



## Clayton SF

RK-60 is a very nice tube.


----------



## versace

Just joined the 6BL7 club, this tube is a gem!


----------



## abvolt

versace said:


> Just joined the 6BL7 club, this tube is a gem!


 
 Cool so have I just haven't listened to mine yet..


----------



## Badas

versace said:


> Just joined the 6BL7 club, this tube is a gem!




Congrats. Did you get flat ladder plate or some other variant?




abvolt said:


> Cool so have I just haven't listened to mine yet..




Really looking foward to mine.
I must say my WA22 is sounding a dream at the moment. I'm wondering if I can push it much further.


----------



## abvolt

Lol.. it's worth a try dude, What made the biggest difference for me was the driver tubes starting with my ecc31's and then moving to the ecc35's wow well worth a try imo no going back there so good..Enjoy


----------



## GrindingThud

http://mixlr.com/illuminator/


----------



## Bitten by Bug

longbowbbs said:


> RK-60 I Believe.
> 
> 
> RK-60 on the Left. USAF-596 on the right.


 

 Correct.  Thanks for showing the difference between the two.
  
 Has anyone encountered the handwriting on the top plate before? Or should I ask in the Dub Step Massive thread?


----------



## Bitten by Bug

So far I am liking it a lot.  So many tube combinations and so little time!


----------



## daverich4

longbowbbs said:


> RK-60 I Believe.
> 
> 
> 
> RK-60 on the Left. USAF-596 on the right.




What ever happened to the USAF 596? A couple of years ago when Silent One and Dubstep Girl were posting on this forum like Badas does today, it was the Mighty 596 and group buys were put together because it was THE rectifier to have. I ended up with 3 of them but have switched to the WE422a instead.


----------



## longbowbbs

daverich4 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > RK-60 I Believe.
> ...


 
 A couple of dealers bought up everything in site and the price went over $200 a tube. Given that price vs other good rectifier choices it lost its luster from a value perspective. I use one in my Studio Six and I have always enjoyed it. However, I had my tubes before the price increase. I paid around $30 for them. Big difference!


----------



## phase0

A couple updates on my WA5... I tried running my Cowon P1 as a source. The output was quieter so I turned the WA5 up louder. Somewhere after 12-1 o'clock I heard some not too painful but a not very nice pop sort of sound and then noise out the right channel... I figured it must be the NU 6C8G. I swapped for another NU tube and got about the same thing happened. I suppose that could also mean something else was the cause. I may not need to figure it out, if it stay solid up until 12 o'clock that's fine for me.
  
 I also got the Mullard GZ34, a black base 5 notch. I tried to compare GZ32 -> GZ34 -> GZ32 with four songs.
  
 A lot of it I’d say sounds the same to me. I’d say the GZ34 has a bit more thump. Not by much, when I switch back to GZ32 it does it too. I don’t feel like it’s lacking or missing anything. It seemed to me that the GZ34 maybe had a touch more bass. GZ32 someone said had mid sparkle. Maybe that’s it. Seems a little more lush or something. I can hear FX tails and reverbs on the GZ34 the same, but it’s maybe a sense of colder or less lush/sparkly. Someone described it as more Solid State-like. I think listening on the GZ32 is more pleasant (slightly). It seemed like there might be a little more air to that sparkle too. It’s tough to compare. Some times I wonder if I’m just imagining things. Music sounds great through both. I do keep going back to the GZ32 so I don’t think it’s all my imagination/bias.
  
 A few pages back someone posted comments from Jack about the socket savers. Thanks for that


----------



## 3083joe

Just an update the 6BL7 tubes are all not created equal! 
 Some sound lots better than others 
 Very important that they are matched
 Makes a huge difference in sound !


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Just an update the 6BL7 tubes are all not created equal!
> Some sound lots better than others
> Very important that they are matched
> Makes a huge difference in sound !




Glenn's favourite was the flat ladder plate. Do you agree?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Glenn's favourite was the flat ladder plate. Do you agree?



Not sure yet. 
But......


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Not sure yet.
> But......




Wholey Moley. You got the duel working. Even looks like you are mixing plate designs.

What a legend. 

I can only imagine how awesome that sounds.


----------



## joseph69

EDIT: 
 Wrong thread, sorry.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Wholey Moley. You got the duel working. Even looks like you are mixing plate designs.
> 
> What a legend.
> 
> I can only imagine how awesome that sounds.



Indeed my friend.


----------



## leftside

Got any more cast offs for me Joe? I'm the Garbage Man haha. Seriously, that photo above looks awesome.


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> Got any more cast offs for me Joe? I'm the Garbage Man haha. Seriously, that photo above looks awesome.



What you looking for?


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> What you looking for?


 

 I'm really trying not to look, but you keep on having such nice tubes come up for sale


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Not sure yet.
> But......


 

 looks like hannukah.


----------



## phase0

3083joe said:


> Not sure yet.
> But......


 
  
 I was wondering if you could double each of the doubled sockets and get 8 tubes running there? Asking not about regard for sound quality but for the visual impact of these awesome pictures. If so how much farther could it be pushed? It needs to go to 11.


----------



## 3083joe

phase0 said:


> I was wondering if you could double each of the doubled sockets and get 8 tubes running there? Asking not about regard for sound quality but for the visual impact of these awesome pictures. If so how much farther could it be pushed? It needs to go to 11.


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> I'm really trying not to look, but you keep on having such nice tubes come up for sale



Will have a set of ecc35s up soon


----------



## phase0

3083joe said:


>


 
  
 It would be totally ...


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Will have a set of ecc35s up soon


 
  
  
 How'd you like the ECC34 v ECC32 v ECC35 v ECC31?


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> How'd you like the ECC34 v ECC32 v ECC35 v ECC31?



Completely sold on 35s over all the others. 33s &31s being close behind it.


----------



## Clayton SF

>


 

 My word! Your Woo has antlers!


----------



## 3083joe

clayton sf said:


> My word! Your Woo has antlers!



Grew over Easter.


----------



## Stereolab42

phase0 said:


> I was wondering if you could double each of the doubled sockets and get 8 tubes running there? Asking not about regard for sound quality but for the visual impact of these awesome pictures. If so how much farther could it be pushed? It needs to go to 11.


----------



## Badas

Thanks to Tony my Woo got a big upgrade. The Auralic Vega Dac.


----------



## Contrails

Nice, how does it sound?
  
 BTW, can the DAC handle the weight of the amp sitting on top?


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Nice, how does it sound?
> 
> BTW, can the DAC handle the weight of the amp sitting on top?


 
  
 I haven't had the chance to listen using the Woo. I did fire up the Woo to make sure connections were correct (which they were). Woo is using balanced so it should be good.
  
 I did listen using speakers. Big improvement. Also 45 minutes on the Oppo HA-1. Massive improvement. So my hopes are high for the Woo.
  
 Vega is built like a tank. It is holding the WA22 with no issues.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> I haven't had the chance to listen using the Woo. I did fire up the Woo to make sure connections were correct (which they were). Woo is using balanced so it *should* be good.
> 
> I did listen using speakers. Big improvement. Also 45 minutes on the Oppo HA-1. Massive improvement. So my hopes are high for the Woo.
> 
> Vega is built like a tank. It is holding the WA22 with no issues.


 WILL BE!!

Looking forward to how you personally find it


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> WILL BE!!
> 
> Looking forward to how you personally find it


 

 I have a feeling it could be my endgame. The improvements to the Oppo was massive. Those improvements should also flow to the Woo.
  
 Then maybe I will be a bit quieter around here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Lol. Someone the other day kinda said I post too much. I hope I'm not too annoying. I am very passionate about this hobby.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I have a feeling it could be my endgame. The improvements to the Oppo was massive. Those improvements should also flow to the Woo.
> 
> Then maybe I will be a bit quieter around here.  Lol. Someone the other day kinda said I post too much. I hope I'm not too annoying. I am very passionate about this hobby.



Post away my friend......

If I was going digital I would be using the vega also! One of the best out there.


----------



## 3083joe

Quad 6BL7gTas come today. Best sound. Matched tubes make a big difference. 
Brent jessee is the man to get these from.


----------



## Badas

Endgame for me. The Auralic Vega has improved the sound an easy 15% over my previous Arcam DAC. 

Also I'm not even using the TAK274B tube. :rolleyes:


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Endgame for me. The Auralic Vega has improved the sound an easy 15% over my previous Arcam DAC.
> 
> Also I'm not even using the TAK274B tube. :rolleyes:


Only 15%?


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Then maybe I will be a bit quieter around here.  Lol. Someone the other day kinda said I post too much. I hope I'm not too annoying. I am very passionate about this hobby.




Hope you're not referring to my mention of you in my post on whatever happened to the popularity of the USAF 596. That certainly wasn't my intent. As this forum has grown and evolved the people who are most active on it seem to change over a period of time. I find your posts interesting and informative in the same way that I used to enjoy reading posts by Dubstep Girl. She's still active, just not here any longer.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> . I hope I'm not too annoying. I am very passionate about this hobby.


 
 Not annoying. Lots of us are passionate about this and willing to share. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


badas said:


> Endgame for me. The Auralic Vega has improved the sound an easy 15% over my previous Arcam DAC.
> 
> Also I'm not even using the TAK274B tube.


 
  
 So what valves have you elected to use?


----------



## leftside

Some of us use the ECC31 tubes in our Woo WA22 with this adapter or equivalent, and it works great.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201408123468
  
 A very kind seller who I've bought a bunch of tubes from is sending me a matching pair of Mullard 6N7GT as a freebie. I am presuming these will work with the same adapter from above? Ignore the product being sold here, but the information appears to be relevant.
 http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=42&products_id=1119&language=en&osCsid=ef7fa03a5b3a658bec4781be6593a4bd


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> Some of us use the ECC31 tubes in our Woo WA22 with this adapter or equivalent, and it works great.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201408123468
> 
> A very kind seller who I've bought a bunch of tubes from is sending me a matching pair of Mullard 6N7GT as a freebie. I am presuming these will work with the same adapter from above? Ignore the product being sold here, but the information appears to be relevant.
> http://tubes.tw/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=42&products_id=1119&language=en&osCsid=ef7fa03a5b3a658bec4781be6593a4bd



Should be same.


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Only 15%?


 
  
 You could be right. Hard to say. I was listening to treble and the improvement was huge. However I did note that bass had a lot more impact and was cleaner/clearer as well (so a percentage gain there as well). The Vega made the Arcam just sound silly. It is scary how much bass I get from a WA22 now.
  


daverich4 said:


> Hope you're not referring to my mention of you in my post on whatever happened to the popularity of the USAF 596. That certainly wasn't my intent. As this forum has grown and evolved the people who are most active on it seem to change over a period of time. I find your posts interesting and informative in the same way that I used to enjoy reading posts by Dubstep Girl. She's still active, just not here any longer.


 
  
 Cool. As long as I'm helpful. Tell me when I'm not.


bitten by bug said:


> Not annoying. Lots of us are passionate about this and willing to share.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is what interested me last night. I just used the Brimar 5Z4GY instead of the TAK274B for the rectifier. The Tak is my number one rectifier and I got such a big leap in sound quality not using it. I think l will get a little better using the Tak. So a little light bulb went off in my head. Tubes are not as important if the DAC is as good as it gets. The DAC has been a far bigger leap in sound quality than rolling tubes*. So I'm happy using a few lesser tubes if you know what I mean.
  
 Tubes I was using are. Brimar 5Z4GY, Tung-Sol round plate 6C8g and GE6AS7GA. I think I will be happy with that arrangement. I won't need another Tak tube. I will try the 6BL7 power tubes when they arrive. In my mind now the tubes used last night are excellent enough.
  
 *I do want to put a small point in here. I did get an easy 15-20% jump in quality when I moved from RCA6SN7 Greyglass to the Tung-Sol round plate 6C8G. So tubes can make big strides as well.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> You could be right. Hard to say. I was listening to treble and the improvement was huge. However I did note that bass had a lot more impact and was cleaner/clearer as well (so a percentage gain there as well). The Vega made the Arcam just sound silly. It is scary how much bass I get from a WA22 now.
> 
> 
> Cool. As long as I'm helpful. Tell me when I'm not.
> ...


 

 I've had much bigger sound differences with higher-end DAC's and headphones than with tube rolling. Which is a good thing imo. At this price point a 15-20% difference in sound quality is massive.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I've had much bigger sound differences with higher-end DAC's and headphones than with tube rolling. Which is a good thing imo. At this price point a 15-20% difference in sound quality is massive.


 

 I paid the same price for the Vega (second hand from Tony) that the TAK274B tube is. The difference the DAC made was a lot lot more than the TAK did over the Brimar. Plus the DAC has improved my SS Oppo HA-1 a lot and the speakers in my Home Theater.
  
 So it was the best purchase I have made in a long while.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I paid the same price for the Vega (second hand from Tony) that the TAK274B tube is. The difference the DAC made was a lot lot more than the TAK did over the Brimar. Plus the DAC has improved my SS Oppo HA-1 a lot and the speakers in my Home Theater.
> 
> So it was the best purchase I have made in a long while.


 
  
 Some might be skeptical but a fuse can shape the sound as much as tubes can.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> You could be right. Hard to say. I was listening to treble and the improvement was huge. However I did note that bass had a lot more impact and was cleaner/clearer as well (so a percentage gain there as well). The Vega made the Arcam just sound silly. It is scary how much bass I get from a WA22 now.



Good to hear you're enjoying it. 

And I would dare say there's a whole lot more layering and space and everything is opening up 

I think the irdac is a very handy little dac and I found it worked really well with some amps (fantastic with the soloist which is a little bright). 

But there would be a big difference between it and a dac that is 4x the price.


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Good to hear you're enjoying it.
> 
> And I would dare say there's a whole lot more layering and space and everything is opening up
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed. I tried a whole bunch of DAC's at the $1K and under mark.
 The irDac was the best followed by the Cambridge Audio Dac Magic.
  
 Different price point levels give you different things tho.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Some might be skeptical but a fuse can shape the sound as much as tubes can.


 

 On all equipment in the chain or just the amp?
  
 Do you have a link to your favorite?


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Agreed. I tried a whole bunch of DAC's at the $1K and under mark.
> The irDac was the best followed by the Cambridge Audio Dac Magic.
> 
> Different price point levels give you different things tho.


 

 Did you demo the Matrix X-Sabre DAC?  That's the unit I'm running and have been very pleased with the results for the $1K price range; just curious if you had a comparison.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Did you demo the Matrix X-Sabre DAC?  That's the unit I'm running and have been very pleased with the results for the $1K price range; just curious if you had a comparison.


 

 I've heard good things about that DAC. Unfortunately I didn't. Not really available here.
  
 We get a lot of British made audio gear like Cambridge Audio and Arcam. They are better prices than most also. Where is the Matrix X-Sabre DAC from?


----------



## Clayton SF

Hello All,
  
 This is interesting: I was listening to my WA4 (2011) and I had noticed that the left channel was slightly lower in gain than the right. So slight that I didn't quite notice it until I played some familiar music. I would say that if each channel were controlled by a 24-step pot, and the right channel was at step 10, then the sound coming out of the left would sound like it were set at step 9.5.
  
 So I decided to switch the front two matching signal tubes (Mullard ECC82) and low and behold, the gain in each channel switched as well.
  
 Why would one tube of a matched pair have less gain than the other. I've never heard of this (npi); of course I haven't read every post either.
  
 Just passing on this experience to see if anyone can help explain this.
  
 Thanks, ALL!
  
 Clayton


----------



## reeltime

clayton sf said:


> Hello All,
> 
> This is interesting: I was listening to my WA4 (2011) and I had noticed that the left channel was slightly lower in gain than the right. So slight that I didn't quite notice it until I played some familiar music. I would say that if each channel were controlled by a 24-step pot, and the right channel was at step 10, then the sound coming out of the left would sound like it were set at step 9.5.
> 
> ...


 
  
 BEAUTIFUL AMP!  It looks like a fortress of sound.
  
 I've had issues in the past if one tube wears out faster than the other or weakens.  I had a really bad pair of mismatched tubes once in a WA6 where one channel was nearly 1/4 gain difference in channels.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> BEAUTIFUL AMP!  It looks like a fortress of sound.


 
  
 Yeah. Stunning looking amp. Massive transformers. Looks like a transformer for each tube.
 I wonder what effect that has on the sound.


----------



## Shini44

planing to get WA5 Fully Upgraded for my HE=6. wanted to ask about the LE version. although its made for headphones it has speaker on the HP Power options? is that bad for the HE-6? or i should leave it at only "HI" option? or "SPK" ??  if on "SPK" then i should be careful with the volume pot as if i was on a speaker amp?
  
 also i know that the impedance is gain L/H but what does level H/L mean???? 
  
 thanks in advance.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> I've heard good things about that DAC. Unfortunately I didn't. Not really available here.
> 
> We get a lot of British made audio gear like Cambridge Audio and Arcam. They are better prices than most also. Where is the Matrix X-Sabre DAC from?


 

 China!  At the time, I purchased direct from them:
  
 http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/49/index.html
  
 I got it on special when it first was released for $200 off @ $899 shipped (I believe.)


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> China!  At the time, I purchased direct from them:
> 
> http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/49/index.html
> 
> I got it on special when it first was released for $200 off @ $899 shipped (I believe.)


 

 Wow. It is a Chinese company. There gear doesn't look like it. It looks European.
  
 I'm sure it is a kick ass product. Great price point as well. I would love to compare it with other DAC's.
  
 Auralic is Chinese as well.


----------



## Torq

My WA5 LE (with the upgraded parts package) has shipped!

Still have to figure out if I am going to grab a second Yggdrasil to drive it, or pick up something else for variety ...

Then the "TubeQuest" can begin in earnest (did some rolling with my WA6, but not a lot ... yet)!


----------



## Khragon

shini44 said:


> planing to get WA5 Fully Upgraded for my HE=6. wanted to ask about the LE version. although its made for headphones it has speaker on the HP Power options? is that bad for the HE-6? or i should leave it at only "HI" option? or "SPK" ??  if on "SPK" then i should be careful with the volume pot as if i was on a speaker amp?
> 
> also i know that the impedance is gain L/H but what does level H/L mean????
> 
> thanks in advance.


 
 The SPK option is there because Woo is too lazy/cheap to order different face plate for WA5LE.  It's blocked internally, you can't switch to it.  I hated it.. made the a $4000 product looks cheap.  
  
 You can still power speakers with WA5LE however, just use/make a cable to connect the 4-pin XLR to the speakers.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Wow. It is a Chinese company. There gear doesn't look like it. It looks European.
> 
> I'm sure it is a kick ass product. Great price point as well. *I would love to compare it with other DAC's.*
> 
> Auralic is Chinese as well.



I'm thinking unless down the track you want a slightly different flavour and "side grade" on the dac, you don't need to look at dac options any more. Or at least for quite a while. 

I think you're pretty good on that front


----------



## leftside

torq said:


> My WA5 LE (with the upgraded parts package) has shipped!
> 
> Still have to figure out if I am going to grab a second Yggdrasil to drive it, or pick up something else for variety ...
> 
> Then the "TubeQuest" can begin in earnest (did some rolling with my WA6, but not a lot ... yet)!


 

 Please let us know how it goes. It's a great looking amp and I might be considering one in the future. I've never seen one "in the flesh" but the socket connections seem a little close together? I'm wondering if it can take a complete set or larger tubes.


----------



## Shini44

Thanks what about the level? H/L ??? What is it for? They don't have a manual on the wa5 le page... :<


----------



## phase0

leftside said:


> Please let us know how it goes. It's a great looking amp and I might be considering one in the future. I've never seen one "in the flesh" but the socket connections seem a little close together? I'm wondering if it can take a complete set or larger tubes.


 
  
 Well so far there's enough room to plug in 6SN7, 6C8G, 6F8G... that's what I've tried so far. I broke one tube trying to remove once. It's hard to pull the 6C8G without some kind of contact with the 300B at some point during the process. I definitely would have appreciated a bit more space between them but I suppose it was designed for 6SN7 and there's plenty of room for those.


----------



## reeltime

shini44 said:


> planing to get WA5 Fully Upgraded for my HE=6. wanted to ask about the LE version. although its made for headphones it has speaker on the HP Power options? is that bad for the HE-6? or i should leave it at only "HI" option? or "SPK" ??  if on "SPK" then i should be careful with the volume pot as if i was on a speaker amp?
> 
> also i know that the impedance is gain L/H but what does level H/L mean????
> 
> thanks in advance.


 

 I have the WA5LE v2.  Yes the SPK setting is locked out.  
  
 Impedance H/L is any can under 100 ohms or so is low, any can over 100 ohm is high.  
  
 Level H/L is for sensitivity.  A headphone that's super efficient gets loud too fast under the high setting.  A headphone that sucks power would have you cranking the volume knob all the way up in the low setting.  
  
 Here's a few common settings:
  

  
 OH, most important-- unplug your headphones before changing any of these settings.  You can potentially do some damage to them.


----------



## Contrails

It's interesting on the WA22, I have used both the Hi and LO setting with the LCD-X and no change in Volume.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> It's interesting on the WA22, I have used both the Hi and LO setting with the LCD-X and no change in Volume.




That depends on the driver tube you use. If you use a 6C8G/6SL7 with a higher gain it renders the Hi/Lo useless. They both produce the same volume. I've listened to both with a 6C8g and also found no decernable difference in sound.
If you use the proper 6F8G/6SN7 then the Hi/Lo works. Very notice volume change.

If you use a powerful power tube like the Woo supplied 7236 or a 5998 the Hi/Lo still works. I've only noted the feature rendered useless or voided in different drive tubes. 

How are you going with the TS RP driver tubes I lent you? Any impressions? Especially compared to the Mullards.
I scored two more sets of Nos TS RP's last week. Both in spotless condition.


----------



## Shini44

reeltime said:


> OH, most important-- unplug your headphones before changing any of these settings.  You can potentially do some damage to them.


 
 Thanks for the info, btw i keep it unplugged when i turn the amp on/off as well right?
  
  also is it like the WA7? where i close it each 8 hours, let the tubes cool down 5-10 min, then resume (in case i come near 8 hours to begin with)


----------



## leftside

shini44 said:


> Thanks for the info, btw i keep it unplugged when i turn the amp on/off as well right?


 
 I'm presuming that shouldn't make any difference. That would be like saying you disconnect the speakers before turning off the amp. The only thing I've heard is that the amp/headphone amp should be turned on last (dac, preamp, etc turned on first) and the amp/headphone amp should be turned off first ( dac, preamp, etc turned off last).


----------



## Shini44

leftside said:


> I'm presuming that shouldn't make any difference. That would be like saying you disconnect the speakers before turning off the amp. The only thing I've heard is that the amp/headphone amp should be turned on last (dac, preamp, etc turned on first) and the amp/headphone amp should be turned off first ( dac, preamp, etc turned off last).


 
 my Hugu TT (DAC / pre-amp) is on all the day   thats why XD   i close it when i go to sleep and thats about it.


----------



## reeltime

shini44 said:


> Thanks for the info, btw i keep it unplugged when i turn the amp on/off as well right?
> 
> also is it like the WA7? where i close it each 8 hours, let the tubes cool down 5-10 min, then resume (in case i come near 8 hours to begin with)


 

 I turn the volume knob down when turning the amp off and on, but I don't unplug.  The WA5LE (and WA5) has a warm up period built into the amp before power comes online anyway.
  
 I try to let the amp sit for an hour or two before restarting.  I've read it's a bit hard on the tubes, but I don't know if that's true.
  
 The reason you unplug when jumping in power settings with the amp powered up-- there is a massive pop that bypasses the volume pot with the switch flip-- so loud it can't be good for the cans.  As a practice, I unplug before changing any switches with the amp turned on.


----------



## leftside

reeltime said:


> I turn the volume knob down when turning the amp off and on, but I don't unplug.  The WA5LE (and WA5) has a warm up period built into the amp before power comes online anyway.


 
 That's not a bad idea. WA22 is the same as the WA5 in that regard with the warm up period. My other tube pieces also do the same (an Allnic phono preamp and a McIntosh preamp)


----------



## Shini44

^ thanks for the info man
  
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/
  
 this review compared the WA5 LE with the LAu, yet didn't compare it with the WA5 with "Takatsuki" tubes, both TA and 300b
  
 been trying to read reviews on the WA5 upgraded + Takatsuki tubes.  i just wana know how good it is and where does it stand above SS amps. i hope it will make me forget about the SS amp's tight control bass and sprarkly treble which is why the SS amp always win over tube amps
  
 i heard that the fully upgraded WA5 + Takatsuki is another story
  
 if anyone can add any info i will be happy to read it
  
  
 sorry for bothering people but just researching here before i pump 9000$ + international shipping ^^


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> I turn the volume knob down when turning the amp off and on, but I don't unplug.


 
  
 I do similar.
  
 When powering up I have my HP's connected and put the volume switch up one notch (stepped volume control). Once warmed I gently adjust volume to suitable level.
  
 When powering down. I lower the volume right off. Then turn off the amp. I leave my HP's connected for 5 minutes to discharge any power. Then disconnect and put the HP's away.
  
 It seems to work well. I don't get any power discharge from the transformer spikes.


----------



## joseph69

leftside said:


> I'm presuming that shouldn't make any difference. That would be like saying you disconnect the speakers before turning off the amp. The only thing I've heard is that the amp/headphone amp should be turned on last (dac, preamp, etc turned on first) and the amp/headphone amp should be turned off first ( dac, preamp, etc turned off last).


 
 This is exactly how my Adcom ACE-515 powers on/off my system.


----------



## MIKELAP

Does the adapter that holds a pair of 6BL7 tubes in the power tube socket have any clearance issues in a WA2 . Also do any of you guys have information on the possible use of the same tubes and adapters  in a WA22  even if the amp is rated at 3.0A /channel and that 2- 6BL7 are also rated at 3.0A.and if it is possible to use them is there any clearance issues with the WA22


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> Does the adapter that holds a pair of 6BL7 tubes in the power tube socket have any clearance issues in a WA2 . Also do any of you guys have information on the possible use of the same tubes and adapters  in a WA22  even if the amp is rated at 3.0A /channel and that 2- 6BL7 are also rated at 3.0A.and if it is possible to use them is there any clearance issues with the WA22



No issues in wa22. Running for 2 weeks now.


----------



## abvolt

very cool I'm going to give that try thanks 3083joe..


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Does the adapter that holds a pair of 6BL7 tubes in the power tube socket have any clearance issues in a WA2 . Also do any of you guys have information on the possible use of the same tubes and adapters  in a WA22  even if the amp is rated at 3.0A /channel and that 2- 6BL7 are also rated at 3.0A.and if it is possible to use them is there any clearance issues with the WA22
> ...


 
 OK thanks i just remembered i had seen your picture several pages back  did you ever get comfirmation that pairs are ok to use  in power tube section ?


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Does the adapter that holds a pair of 6BL7 tubes in the power tube socket have any clearance issues in a WA2 . Also do any of you guys have information on the possible use of the same tubes and adapters  in a WA22  even if the amp is rated at 3.0A /channel and that 2- 6BL7 are also rated at 3.0A.and if it is possible to use them is there any clearance issues with the WA22


 
  
 Mike, I'll let you know in a couple days for clearance in the WA2 as my adapters should be delivered tomorrow.
  
 As far as the WA22 with a 3A filament rating (per power socket) I think you're fine!  The dual 6BL7 configuration is not exceeding specification.  Just check the transformers with your hand and verify they are not getting too hot and don't exceed the 8 hour playtime window (if you want to be safe.)  Although, ...I think I remember hearing @3083joe say he was roasting marshmallows & wieners while listening to his amp the other night... so be careful!


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Mike, I'll let you know in a couple days for clearance in the WA2 as my adapters should be delivered tomorrow.
> 
> As far as the WA22 with a 3A filament rating (per power socket) I think you're fine!  The dual 6BL7 configuration is not exceeding specification.  Just check the transformers with your hand and verify they are not getting too hot and don't exceed the 8 hour playtime window (if you want to be safe.)  Although, ...I think I remember hearing @3083joe
> say he was roasting marshmallows & wieners while listening to his amp the other night... so be careful! :wink_face:



My transformers are not warm at all. Even after 4 + hrs with 2 6bl7s


----------



## thecrow

N





badas said:


> ​Listening to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been listening to this album today (on potable gear).

I had never heard of her before.
I'll look into her stuff a bit more. Really enjoying it. 

Thanks for the tip.

Edit:
I might have to bring the mullard 6080's out for this one.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> ​ Listening to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good one Dono, she's great, Currency of Man (The Artist's Cut) is very good also.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> I scored two more sets of Nos TS RP's last week. Both in spotless condition.


 
  
 Well I'm jelly. Got any spares for sale? I'm still looking... I got nothing.
  
 I tried out the TSRP 6SU7. I thought it was a really enjoyable tube. I did have to crank the volume knob to even higher. Hit a psychological spot where I am worried like this is too much... After that I put my NU 6C8G back in. I also to the time to try and clean them with Deoxit now that I have some. I immediately preferred the 6C8G. A bit more bass and punch I felt like. I also thought it had more clarity and more open/airy space. Anyways, I really thought the 6SU7 sounded great until after I switched it out.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> That depends on the driver tube you use. If you use a 6C8G/6SL7 with a higher gain it renders the Hi/Lo useless. They both produce the same volume. I've listened to both with a 6C8g and also found no decernable difference in sound.
> If you use the proper 6F8G/6SN7 then the Hi/Lo works. Very notice volume change.


 
 At least on my new edition WA5 the Hi/Lo is functional with the 6C8G. I just checked it out right now. Also I'm using the Woo 6F8G->6SN7 adapters in case that would have anything to do with it. The Level Hi/Lo switch is okay to flip with the headphones plugged in but I always put the volume down to zero. The HP Power switch will make the nasty pop when you switch it Spk/Hi/Lo so you should either not have your headphones plugged in or have the amp turned off when switching it. Also if you run Spk you're supposed to always have speakers plugged in.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Good one Dono, she's great, Currency of Man (The Artist's Cut) is very good also.




Yes it is. That album blew me away. I have and enjoy her whole collection.

Interesting bit of info. She took up singing to releave boredom while she was in hospital. She had a serious car accident. 

For anyone who is interested she has a blu-ray concert release in a few months. Her performing in Paris.


----------



## abvolt

what is this artist name ?


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> what is this artist name ?




Melody Gardot.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> My transformers are not warm at all. Even after 4 + hrs with 2 6bl7s


 

_I am removing my failed attempt at off-the-wall humor from this post. Sorry guys, this didn't make any sense to me the next day either! LOL _


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> N
> I've been listening to this album today (on potable gear).
> 
> I had never heard of her before.
> ...


 

 I have several of her albums over the last decade+, she's a great artist, glad you've discovered her!


----------



## 3083joe

Can't give up the ecc35s no matter what I try.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Melody Gardot.


 
  
  


ru4music said:


> I have several of her albums over the last decade+, she's a great artist, glad you've discovered her!


 
  
 Sampled on YouTube - in the cart now!  Thanks for sharing!


----------



## abvolt

I agree her music is really nice..


----------



## isquirrel

All of her Albums are available in high res on Qobuz


----------



## abvolt

yeah that's a cool site I've been there many times ..


----------



## Shini44

hey guys i didn't find any "Metal Base Mullard GZ34" matched pair :< its like extinct or something -.-''  so are these a good alternative?
  
https://tubeworldexpress.com/products/gz34-philips-mullard-nos-1975
  
 i hope the difference between the Metal Base and these isn't that big or at least small  
  
  
 planing to pair it with Elrog 300b on the WA5 EL.


----------



## 3083joe

Man TSRP or any 6SN7 can't touch ECCXX tubes. 
A-B comparison ecc wins every time.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> All of her Albums are available in high res on Qobuz




Hey Simon,

I hope you don't mind me asking? However a while back you mentioned some very interesting projects you were working on.

I am very curious. 

You mentioned looking into the MSB uber DAC. That is supose to be the DAC that destroys all others. How did it go?

Also the Woo WA234? I remember you working with Jack to get the C3g drive tube working. I think you mentioned it is working in the WA234 now. How is it sounding.

Are there other projects happening?

Please. Please any updated pics will be cool also. I'm a pushy prick aye!


----------



## Contrails

> Man TSRP or any 6SN7 can't touch ECCXX tubes






 


I found the Tung Sol Black Glass 6su7gty came very close to the ECC31.  The 6su7gty is maybe a touch laid back and it does have higher gain.  Obviously, the ECC35... would probably be in a higher class. 


 


Also, any one try the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC?


----------



## ymc226

willb said:


> Hello all,
> I'm looking to purchase the WA22 and WDS-1 and I'm having a very friendly and helpful discussion with Mike at Woo Audio about this. I was recommended the Nordost Heimdal interconnects and powercords. And as you may know, these cables can very well end up costing more than the actual hardware. While I have no intention of using cables from Radio Shack or Costco, are cables this expensive really necessary? One suggestion I received for "best performance" was the Heimdahl2 XLR interconnect á $1162 for 1m (39") and Nordosts miminum recommended length is 1,5m! And since I plan on stacking the DAC and amp, what am I supposed to do with a 1,5m interconnect cable? Have this massive loop behind the stack that costs 2K just for kicks and giggles? I just don't get it. Anybody here want to dumb it down for me?
> 
> I would appreciate some input from other members about what interconnect and powercables you have found to work well with Woo that don't have exorbitant pricetags. Believe me, I'm willing to throw down some dime for this setup but some of these prices for cables is just bananas.
> ...


 

 Sorry about referring to an older post but I'm in the same boat.  Going to purchase my first headphone system (currently have a McIntosh SS amp/preamp with Sonus Faber Cremoras) and just purchased the Beyerdynamic T5p from Mike's recommendation at Woo Audio.  In the next weeks, will order both the WA22 and WDS-1 and told that Woo recommends Nordost IC and power cables for approx additional $1800 US which would be their Red Dawn line and Blue Heaven USB to connect to my iPhone/iPad.  
  
 Replies to WillB's inquiry were generally get cheaper cables as the difference would not be readily apparent and I also want to spend extra $ I saved on tubes.  I just found the Signal Cable site and would get their top tier products (Silver Resolution Balanced IC and Silver Ref power cord).  The combination for 2 power cords (6 feet) and 1 set of IC would be just about the price of one Nordost  power cord in the length I need.
  
 I don't won't to "cheap out" on cables/cords if they will make a big difference since I feel I'm spending a premium to get great performing headphones and electronics but I also don't want to throw $$$ away which could be used to improve the system with additional tubes.
  
 Is Signal Cable option a good one?  I've also come across  Cabledyne.  If not, what others would you suggest?


----------



## ken6217

There's no reason why you have to buy cables from Woo. Also Nordost are good but super expensive regardless of their quality. I Have had very expensive cables (as in thousands of dollars) in my systems over the years using Transparent, MIT, Cardas, and found that there is improvement up to a point, and then your just spending crazy money. Law of diminishing returns definitely kick in.
  
 Also if a DAC, server, CD player, etc isn't capable of the resolution of supposedly of what a cable claims it can achieve, then this is also a waste of money.
  
 If you use Nordost, I would just use their entry level or one level up. Even better you should look at Cardas. The are excellent, high end, and not as expensive. Another thought is you could go to The Cable Company's website and give them a call. They have tons of cables brands and models and they will send to you to audition.
  
 With regards to the cable length, that's just pure BS. Just buy the length that you need. They just want you to buy a longer length so they can make more money. 
  
 Are you going to stack one component on top of the other, or on another shelf above each other? It's not a good idea to stack on top of each other.


----------



## ken6217

Double post


----------



## ymc226

Thanks Ken,
  
 I'll look into Cardas.
  
 Since this is my first headphone set-up, I'm just going to get these 2 components and maybe add the Woo Audio CD player.  I'll stop there.  I asked Mike and he said not to stack the components.  I'll place them side by side.  
  
 If this works well, then in a few years when I move back to LA from the East Coast, I'll get the WA5 along with the DAC and another high end headphone for a 2nd headphone system.  
  
 I know about diminishing returns. . . I've bought into the Leica M system and have most of their ASPH lenses.
  
 Just looked at the Cardas website, unfortunately no USA distributor.


----------



## 3083joe

ymc226 said:


> Thanks Ken,
> 
> I'll look into Cardas.
> 
> ...



Cardas can be purchased lots of places. 
Musicdirect
Audioadvisor 
And I'm sure others 
I moved from audio quest to cardas and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## ken6217

I hadn't introduced myself. I heard a WA5-LE on Friday and then ordered it. Many years of solid state listening. I still have, and am keeping my Violectric V281 amp.
  
 In what order would you upgrade the rectifier, driver, 300B tubes? Which will give the most impact?
  
 What are the sound character difference between sold and mesh plates 300B tubes? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ymc226

The WA-22 has both a split left + right 3 pin XLR and a single stereo 4 pin XLR input as options.  Which one, if any, would give a better quality sound?


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> I hadn't introduced myself. I heard a WA5-LE on Friday and then ordered it. Many years of solid state listening. I still have, and am keeping my Violectric V281 amp.
> 
> In what order would you upgrade the rectifier, driver, 300B tubes? Which will give the most impact?
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome,
 I have a wa22 and been thinking about the V281 as tube rolling can get expensive.
 Let me know your thoughts on WA5vsV281
 Thanks


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> Welcome,
> I have a wa22 and been thinking about the V281 as tube rolling can get expensive.
> Let me know your thoughts on WA5vsV281
> Thanks


 

 Hi,
  
 Will do when I have them with together. I don't know if the comparisons are going to work for you. Tubes and solid state are two different sounds. I would imagine one sounds better than the other depending on what you are looking for in sound signatures. For another person, the opinion "may" be the opposite.


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Will do when I have them with together. I don't know if the comparisons are going to work for you. Tubes and solid state are two different sounds. I would imagine one sounds better than the other depending on what you are looking for in sound signatures. For another person, the opinion "may" be the opposite.



 Just looking for your sound impressions of both. Not really a comparison, just your thoughts


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> Just looking for your sound impressions of both. Not really a comparison, just your thoughts


 

 Gotcha,
  
 I can tell you now with regards to the V281, it is excellent and very highly regarded. I had in my home for extended auditions Taurus Mk2, Sim Audio Neo 430HA, and the V281 was better than both.


----------



## WillB

ymc226 said:


> Sorry about referring to an older post but I'm in the same boat.  Going to purchase my first headphone system (currently have a McIntosh SS amp/preamp with Sonus Faber Cremoras) and just purchased the Beyerdynamic T5p from Mike's recommendation at Woo Audio.  In the next weeks, will order both the WA22 and WDS-1 and told that Woo recommends Nordost IC and power cables for approx additional $1800 US which would be their Red Dawn line and Blue Heaven USB to connect to my iPhone/iPad.
> 
> Replies to WillB's inquiry were generally get cheaper cables as the difference would not be readily apparent and I also want to spend extra $ I saved on tubes.  I just found the Signal Cable site and would get their top tier products (Silver Resolution Balanced IC and Silver Ref power cord).  The combination for 2 power cords (6 feet) and 1 set of IC would be just about the price of one Nordost  power cord in the length I need.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi,
 I finally settled on Supra cables from Jenving (jenving.com). As I live in Sweden these are readily available at most Hi-Fi and home theater specialist retailers. After a lot of research and consideration I concluded that these cables had the biggest bang for the buck and coincidentally happened to be a Swedish company. I have their shielded power strips wall mounted (one for home theater set up and one for computer and headphone amp setup), shielded power cables, coaxial, optical, HDMI and loudspeaker cables. I'm basically all-in on Supra cables, There's just one thing that you have to accept with Supra cables - their profile baby blue color. If you can get passed that, you're good to go
 I never did get that Woo Audio WA22. I still want it; it's still on the wish list, but then so is a Schiit stack too. I ended up getting the Asus Essence III headphone amplifier and DAC. It's a big difference from the WA22 - solid state, combined amp/DAC etc but it turned out to be a good choice for me as a "computer audiophile" using primarily streaming services and driving both my headphones and desktop speakers. And everything's connected with Supra cables.
 A word of advice: Try and find that sweet spot just before the point of diminishing returns, where the cost to quality ratio is at just the right spot before prices for items start getting higher but where you probably won't be able to discern any perceptible difference. Sure if I was wealthy I could go all in on Nordost but I'm not, so my sweet spot is Supra cables. I also like Double Helix Cables for all my headphone cables that stay at home (copper, not silver. Those are pricey!). They have XLR interconnects that could be interesting for connecting your DAC and amp.But Supra has those too.
 /Will


----------



## 3083joe

Makes the 6bl7s shine


----------



## reeltime

Anyone have a source for 6F8G adapters to 6SN7?  I bought a pair off eBay, but there's a lot of occasional chatter in the left channel.  It could be the tube, I don't have a 2nd pair, but eliminating the adapter as a noise source is a lot cheaper than picking up another pair of VT-99s.
  
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

reeltime said:


> Anyone have a source for 6F8G adapters to 6SN7?  I bought a pair off eBay, but there's a lot of occasional chatter in the left channel.  It could be the tube, I don't have a 2nd pair, but eliminating the adapter as a noise source is a lot cheaper than picking up another pair of VT-99s.
> 
> Thanks


 
 I got mine from Glenn send him a pm maybe hell have time to make your adapters             http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> I got mine from Glenn send him a pm maybe hell have time to make your adapters             http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn



Glenn's are best but I've bought several off eBay and never had issues with them. 6f8g/6c8g often have noise especially NU


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I got mine from Glenn send him a pm maybe hell have time to make your adapters             http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn
> ...


 
 Ive also bought other adapters on Ebay with no issues and the ones i did have issues with were bought several years ago when adapter were getting popular i especially like the adapters using cmc sockets and for me due to our low currency alot  more affordable and so far of good quality   .


----------



## phase0

reeltime said:


> Anyone have a source for 6F8G adapters to 6SN7?  I bought a pair off eBay, but there's a lot of occasional chatter in the left channel.  It could be the tube, I don't have a 2nd pair, but eliminating the adapter as a noise source is a lot cheaper than picking up another pair of VT-99s.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I bought mine directly from Woo Audio. They told me the adapters on eBay could damage the amp. I'm not familiar with the technical details of what the adapters are actually doing. My line of thinking is anything not blessed by the Vendor is risky especially in a device I spent nearly $6000 on. If something ever happens I can say I ran components supplied from them (minus the tubes but all the tube types are listed as compatible in their official list).


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> I bought mine directly from Woo Audio. They told me the adapters on eBay could damage the amp. I'm not familiar with the technical details of what the adapters are actually doing. My line of thinking is anything not blessed by the Vendor is risky especially in a device I spent nearly $6000 on. If something ever happens I can say I ran components supplied from them (minus the tubes but all the tube types are listed as compatible in their official list).


 
 I didn't know Woo made adapters for the 6F8G's.


----------



## 3083joe

phase0 said:


> I bought mine directly from Woo Audio. They told me the adapters on eBay could damage the amp. I'm not familiar with the technical details of what the adapters are actually doing. My line of thinking is anything not blessed by the Vendor is risky especially in a device I spent nearly $6000 on. If something ever happens I can say I ran components supplied from them (minus the tubes but all the tube types are listed as compatible in their official list).


 

 unfortunately they don't tell the complete truth, had to return one of there adapter as it fell apart on first use!


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> I hadn't introduced myself. I heard a WA5-LE on Friday and then ordered it. Many years of solid state listening. I still have, and am keeping my Violectric V281 amp.
> 
> In what order would you upgrade the rectifier, driver, 300B tubes? Which will give the most impact?
> 
> ...


 

 Id say rectifier and drivers then 300b but all will make big difference


----------



## 3083joe

ymc226 said:


> The WA-22 has both a split left + right 3 pin XLR and a single stereo 4 pin XLR input as options.  Which one, if any, would give a better quality sound?


 

 2 x 3pin and 1 4 pin would be best (and equal) but have to feed a balanced signal from DAC/Phono or what ever you are using


----------



## MIKELAP

phase0 said:


> reeltime said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone have a source for 6F8G adapters to 6SN7?  I bought a pair off eBay, but there's a lot of occasional chatter in the left channel.  It could be the tube, I don't have a 2nd pair, but eliminating the adapter as a noise source is a lot cheaper than picking up another pair of VT-99s.
> ...


 
 I use  several tubes types that are not on the official list but i just ask Woo if they are compatible so i cant go wrong .


----------



## MIKELAP

3083joe said:


> ken6217 said:
> 
> 
> > I hadn't introduced myself. I heard a WA5-LE on Friday and then ordered it. Many years of solid state listening. I still have, and am keeping my Violectric V281 amp.
> ...


 
 This is what ive read about this true or not i have no idea  - OUPS SORRY WRONG QUOTE -


----------



## 3083joe

mikelap said:


> This is what ive read about this true or not i have no idea  - OUPS SORRY WRONG QUOTE -


 
 Makes some sense


----------



## ymc226

3083joe said:


> 2 x 3pin and 1 4 pin would be best (and equal) but have to feed a balanced signal from DAC/Phono or what ever you are using


 

 Thanks Joe,
  
 I'll get the stereo 4 pin as my future plans include the Woo WA5-LE which looks like it has a single XLR headphone plug.


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> Id say rectifier and drivers then 300b but all will make big difference


 

 Thanks for your comments. Any tube recommendations. Should I go for what they offer as upgrades or buy elsewhere. I can upgrade the rectifier and driver tubes but not to the tune of $1000 plus. Are the Sylvania 6SN7GT driver tubes good? What about rectifier tubes?
  
 Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

Broke down an purchased the HD800 S headphones guess the 800 will go on sell tomorrow.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Glenn's are best but I've bought several off eBay and never had issues with them. 6f8g/6c8g often have noise especially NU


 
 Agreed. Glenn's are the best. I have a few sets.
  
 Only in the WA5. If the tubes are in good condition and appear Nos then they shouldn't be noisy. I've tried many variants and have the following 2 sets of NU 6F8G, 1 set of RCA flat plate 6F8G, 25 sets of RCA NU plate 6C8G, 16 sets of TS RP 6C8G. All have been quiet in my WA22. As far as I know only NU 6F8G is noisy in the WA5 (not the WA22) and you can get around that by using 6C8G. 
  
 6F8G and 6C8G can get noisy from interference. I have remote control pillar lighting in my room. When I turn them on the amp gets noisy. With them off it is dead quiet. So it is something to be aware of. I found the ebay adapters to pick up the most interference. As Glenn's has a bit of shielding they are the quietest.


joseph69 said:


> I didn't know Woo made adapters for the 6F8G's.


 
  
 They will make anything that will sell.


3083joe said:


> Id say rectifier and drivers then 300b but all will make big difference


 
  
 Yip. Agreed.
  


3083joe said:


> 2 x 3pin and 1 4 pin would be best (and equal) but have to feed a balanced signal from DAC/Phono or what ever you are using


 
  
 This is haunting me a bit. You have touched on something I've been thinking about. My WA22 is not being feed a balanced signal and maybe it should now I own the Vega DAC with balanced output. I'm feeding the balanced into my Oppo HA-1 SS amp.
  
 Does anyone know of an adapter that will split the balanced outputs into two. So I can feed balanced into two amps?


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> Thanks for your comments. Any tube recommendations. Should I go for what they offer as upgrades or buy elsewhere. I can upgrade the rectifier and driver tubes but not to the tune of $1000 plus. Are the Sylvania 6SN7GT driver tubes good? What about rectifier tubes?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I don't like Sylvania drive tubes however many do.
  
 Start by trying the Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier. Best bang for $$'s. Langrex is the best place to buy from.


3083joe said:


> Broke down an purchased the HD800 S headphones guess the 800 will go on sell tomorrow.


 
  
 Exceptional HP.


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> I don't like Sylvania drive tubes however many do.
> 
> Start by trying the Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier. Best bang for $$'s. Langrex is the best place to buy from.
> 
> Exceptional HP.


 

 Thank you. I'll check out the Brimar rectifier tube. What do you recommend for the driver tube?
  
 Also if it matters, most of my listening is primarily rock.


----------



## phase0

ken6217 said:


> Thanks for your comments. Any tube recommendations. Should I go for what they offer as upgrades or buy elsewhere. I can upgrade the rectifier and driver tubes but not to the tune of $1000 plus. Are the Sylvania 6SN7GT driver tubes good? What about rectifier tubes?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I've been going through this on my WA5 in the last couple months here. I changed all the tubes within a short time. The order of arrival was Rectifier > Driver > Power ... They all had a significant impact on the sound IMO. If you go back a short while you can see the advice I received. Between rectifiers I tried Mullard GZ32 and 34, I prefer the GZ32. Driver tubes I got first were the 6SN7 Sylvania, I decided I didn't like them. It was kind of a cool spacial effect but too laid back for my taste. I've tried a few other 6SN7 from Russian tube, to RCA, KenRad, tried the 6SU7 TungSol round plate. None of them are as good as the 6C8G National Union or the 6F8G KenRad I tried out. Badas is the guy who seems to know the most about these. Solid recommendation from my limited experience. There's a lot of 300Bs considered among the best. From some of the threads I read I saw the summary saying Takatsuki, Sophia Royal Princess, and Emission Labs are the best. I opted for the cheapest EML 300B. I'm really happy with the improvements. I'm told that gets me 90-95% of the best I can expect from the amp.
  
 I spent around $240 for the Rectifier and I think it was around $40 for the driver (+ adapters), $600 for the 300Bs. Approx $1000 total for the tube upgrades but then I got some others I was trying and kept so I've spent more than that total. You can also save a bit buying used instead of NOS to try something out but I've been advised against this (and I had several bad experiences with tubes that were basically DOA trying the used route. I did get the GZ34 used but tested before sent and they work great. Saved a little bit from spending on NOS there.)
  
 This is a link to the current tube official compatibility chart for Woo Amps (I think someone else posted the link a while back as well):
Woo Audio Tube Compat Chart


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> Thank you. I'll check out the Brimar rectifier tube. What do you recommend for the driver tube?
> 
> Also if it matters, most of my listening is primarily rock.


 
  
 If it is rock then don't go Sylvania 6SN7. They are very extended.
  
 Try RCA 6SN7, TS round plate 6SN7, 6SL7, 6SU7 or get the adapters and go 6F8G/6C8G (all of these are great).


----------



## u2u2

ymc226 said:


> The WA-22 has both a split left + right 3 pin XLR and a single stereo 4 pin XLR input as options.  Which one, if any, would give a better quality sound?


 

 Deleted


----------



## ru4music

6BL7 tube update (Woo WA2):
  
 I have the 2X adapters in the WA2 and all is well.  The clearance is fine, however one is close next to the power transformer.  6DJ8 type driver tubes are no problem with the 6SN7 (& adapters) a little closer.  I need to burn in the 6BL7 tubes a little longer but they do sound good, not the "best of the very best" but definitely worth a try.  Also, I don't seem to noticed too much difference between a single vs. dual tube configuration with the HD800/ HD650/ T1 headphones, so you may be able to save some money and purchase a single pair.  I really like this tube option in the WA2, it affords me two very distinctive tone options (6SN7/ 6BL7 - warm, harmonically rich and 6N23P/ 5998 - hauntingly detailed and fast.)


----------



## jerick70

Hi everyone. I just added a WA7 to my audio collection. I am really happy with it. Sound is very dynamic and refined. I have a pair of ZMF Blackwoods that the WA7 isn't driving very well. Do you think the WA2 or WA22 will drive my ZMFs better?


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> If it is rock then don't go Sylvania 6SN7. They are very extended.
> 
> Try RCA 6SN7, TS round plate 6SN7, 6SL7, 6SU7 or get the adapters and go 6F8G/6C8G (all of these are great).


 

 So then RCA 6SN7 driver tubes and Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier tubes will serve me well based on my musical tastes?
  
 Should I complete the trifecta and for for the 300B tubes as well? Any suggestions there? 
  
 Also who do you recommend to buy the driver and 300B tubes from?
  
 Thanks,
 Ken


----------



## ken6217

phase0 said:


> I've been going through this on my WA5 in the last couple months here. I changed all the tubes within a short time. The order of arrival was Rectifier > Driver > Power ... They all had a significant impact on the sound IMO. If you go back a short while you can see the advice I received. Between rectifiers I tried Mullard GZ32 and 34, I prefer the GZ32. Driver tubes I got first were the 6SN7 Sylvania, I decided I didn't like them. It was kind of a cool spacial effect but too laid back for my taste. I've tried a few other 6SN7 from Russian tube, to RCA, KenRad, tried the 6SU7 TungSol round plate. None of them are as good as the 6C8G National Union or the 6F8G KenRad I tried out. Badas is the guy who seems to know the most about these. Solid recommendation from my limited experience. There's a lot of 300Bs considered among the best. From some of the threads I read I saw the summary saying Takatsuki, Sophia Royal Princess, and Emission Labs are the best. I opted for the cheapest EML 300B. I'm really happy with the improvements. I'm told that gets me 90-95% of the best I can expect from the amp.
> 
> I spent around $240 for the Rectifier and I think it was around $40 for the driver (+ adapters), $600 for the 300Bs. Approx $1000 total for the tube upgrades but then I got some others I was trying and kept so I've spent more than that total. You can also save a bit buying used instead of NOS to try something out but I've been advised against this (and I had several bad experiences with tubes that were basically DOA trying the used route. I did get the GZ34 used but tested before sent and they work great. Saved a little bit from spending on NOS there.)
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your help.


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> Thanks for your comments. Any tube recommendations. Should I go for what they offer as upgrades or buy elsewhere. I can upgrade the rectifier and driver tubes but not to the tune of $1000 plus. Are the Sylvania 6SN7GT driver tubes good? What about rectifier tubes?
> 
> Thanks



I would not buy tubes from woo. 
Brimar rectifiers
6c8g drivers (need adapter tho)
Sofia princess as a cheaper 300B 
Mesh plate would probably be better.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> So then RCA 6SN7 driver tubes and Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier tubes will serve me well based on my musical tastes?
> 
> Should I complete the trifecta and for for the 300B tubes as well? Any suggestions there?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


3083joe said:


> I would not buy tubes from woo.
> Brimar rectifiers
> 6c8g drivers (need adapter tho)
> Sofia princess as a cheaper 300B
> Mesh plate would probably be better.


 
  
 Good advice.
  
 I would likely just rock with the stock 300B's for a bit tho. Just to make sure everything is working okay. Rectifier and Drive tubes will give you a nice improvement for not mush $$'s.


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> I would not buy tubes from woo.
> Brimar rectifiers
> 6c8g drivers (need adapter tho)
> Sofia princess as a cheaper 300B
> Mesh plate would probably be better.


 

 Thanks. I'll probably go for the driver tubes that Badas mentioned as I don't want to do the adapters at this point. I assume there are no issues but in the off chance that I screw something up I don't want to be denied any warranty work.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> Thanks. I'll probably go for the driver tubes that Badas mentioned as I don't want to do the adapters at this point. I assume there are no issues but in the off chance that I screw something up I don't want to be denied any warranty work.


 

 If you are going to go 6SN7 type tube without adapters. You can either go.
  
 RCA 6SN7 either grey glass or clear. They sound the same.
  
 Here is a good pair:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Matching-Pair-RCA-6SN7GT-Tubes-black-plates-D-getter-copper-rods-/222043914401?hash=item33b2d940a1:g:sFgAAOSwA4dWMB3B
  
 Flat plate, with a 3 step ladder effect.
  
 or even better
  
 TS RP 6SL7, 6SU7. These sound as good as TS RP 6F8G, 6C8G but without adapters.
  
 Like this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6SU7GTY-Round-Plate-Aged-48-hours-Type-/281756936325?hash=item419a05a885mo-sm9GyPkE-LI2Mdn2OuxA
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-VT-229-6SL7gt-from-tung-sol-whit-round-black-plates-ECC35-/301911846110?hash=item464b592cde:g:Ai4AAOSwJQdW-TLt
  
 Must have round plates. Avoid the Russian knock offs.
  
 The Tung-Sol's will take more hunting. Be patient. They are worth it.


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> Thanks. I'll probably go for the driver tubes that Badas mentioned as I don't want to do the adapters at this point. I assume there are no issues but in the off chance that I screw something up I don't want to be denied any warranty work.



Going with 6ns7 is fine but I'd probably 
TS Round plate 6su7 same tube wayyyy cheaper(got pair for -$50), I like them lots. (Or go hard with ecc35s no adapter need and the best driver I've used.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Going with 6ns7 is fine but I'd probably
> TS Round plate 6su7 same tube wayyyy cheaper(got pair for -$50), I like them lots. (Or go hard with ecc35s no adapter need and the best driver I've used.


 

 You rock man. We often give the same advise.
  
 I would like to try the Mullard ecc35's one day.


----------



## thecrow

Badas
I may have missed it earlier in the thread but did anything come of you speaking to woo about your amp recently through this thread?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> You rock man. We often give the same advise.
> 
> I would like to try the Mullard ecc35's one day.



Great minds. 
I think the 6sl7 might have higher gain which can be good.


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> So then RCA 6SN7 driver tubes and Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier tubes will serve me well based on my musical tastes?
> 
> Should I complete the trifecta and for for the 300B tubes as well? Any suggestions there?
> 
> ...



These would also be good. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-Ken-Rad-JAN-CKR-6SL7GT-VT-229-6SL7-Black-Plate-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-/162025257152?nav=SEARCH

Maybe a bit faster.


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> Thanks. I'll probably go for the driver tubes that Badas mentioned as I don't want to do the adapters at this point. I assume there are no issues but in the off chance that I screw something up I don't want to be denied any warranty work.



Here 
http://www.sophiaelectric.com/
Will not hurt Warranty as long as tubes are on comparability chart. 

Pic the one that fit in your budget. 



Or spend the big bucks and get 
Tak300b but they are real high priced but the best out there


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Great minds.
> I think the 6sl7 might have higher gain which can be good.


 
  
 Yes it will. Seems to match up better to a 300B power tube rather than a 6SN7. It handles 300B power better.


3083joe said:


> These would also be good.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-Ken-Rad-JAN-CKR-6SL7GT-VT-229-6SL7-Black-Plate-Amplifier-Vacuum-Tubes-/162025257152?nav=SEARCH
> 
> Maybe a bit faster.


 
  
 Good find. They are using the NU plates. Damn they are sweet treble tube. Not too different to the TS RP sound. They would be nice.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Or spend the big bucks and get
> Tak300b but they are real high priced but the best out there


 
  
 TAK all the way. That is what I would do if I had a WA5. They have the best sound plus there is a new revised 300B that is suppose to sound even better.


----------



## Badas

I took this pic last night. I know it's a stupid thing. However I really like how the glow from my tubes match the read out on the Vega DAC. Looks great with the lights out.


----------



## abvolt

I would certainly would agree with joe the eccxx is by far the best driver tube one can get for the wa22, only have the ecc31 & 35's  both are well worth your attention. that is if your looking for the best out of your wa22..Enjoy


----------



## 3083joe

Can't be price for a pair!?!


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> TAK all the way. That is what I would do if I had a WA5. They have the best sound plus there is a new revised 300B that is suppose to sound even better.


 
  
 I still want that for my WA5, but I haven't mustered the will to spend that much yet. Something in the back of my head is that I might fancy getting the Abyss Headphones next. Even though that's even a lot more money than Taks I'm imagining that would be more of an improvement in my own setup than replacing the EML with Taks and sticking with the LCD-XC.
  
 I like the glow tubes too  Where I'm at now still quite pleased with the level I've hit with all my new tubes.


----------



## phase0

In google: "convert 175000 yen to usd" gives me $1569.99 and Woo sells them for $1790. From other 300B threads I've read it seems like pricejapan is a little bit cheaper so I'd say that looks right approx.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I still want that for my WA5, but I haven't mustered the will to spend that much yet. Something in the back of my head is that I might fancy getting the Abyss Headphones next. Even though that's even a lot more money than Taks I'm imagining that would be more of an improvement in my own setup than replacing the EML with Taks and sticking with the LCD-XC.
> 
> I like the glow tubes too  Where I'm at now still quite pleased with the level I've hit with all my new tubes.


 
  
 I listen to fair few 300B's when Tony had his WA5. The TAK was way ahead of the bunch. In all areas. The only 300B that delved very deep in bass, had excellent treble and sounded full.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I listen to fair few 300B's when Tony had his WA5. The TAK was way ahead of the bunch. In all areas. The only 300B that delved very deep in bass, had excellent treble and sounded full.



Is it the EML that I've heard issue with or is it another 300b, can't remember


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Is it the EML that I've heard issue with or is it another 300b, can't remember


 
  
 Elrog. Life issues. They burn out quickly.


----------



## thecrow

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





badas said:


> I took this pic last night. I know it's a stupid thing. However I really like how the glow from my tubes match the read out on the Vega DAC. Looks great with the lights out.


It is a bit of a stupid thing. But I know what you mean.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> I took this pic last night. I know it's a stupid thing. However I really like how the glow from my tubes match the read out on the Vega DAC. Looks great with the lights out.



My previous post has now been edited with gif


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> My previous post has now been edited with gif


 

  


thecrow said:


> It is a bit of a stupid thing. But I know what you mean.


 
  
 I don't usually look at the tubes at all. I haven't for a real long time. However they really captivated me last night.
  
 I don't buy tubes for glow either. Sound is first. Crikey the Tung-Sol's don't glow at all.
  
 If members don't know the history of war time painted tubes. Some were painted for shielding radio noise and others were to eliminate glow so snipers couldn't see.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Agreed. Glenn's are the best. I have a few sets.
> 
> Only in the WA5. If the tubes are in good condition and appear Nos then they shouldn't be noisy. I've tried many variants and have the following 2 sets of NU 6F8G, 1 set of RCA flat plate 6F8G, 25 sets of RCA NU plate 6C8G, 16 sets of TS RP 6C8G. All have been quiet in my WA22. As far as I know only NU 6F8G is noisy in the WA5 (not the WA22) and you can get around that by using 6C8G.


 
  
 I bought NU 6F8Gs for my WA5LE based on someone's recommendation-- and they're noisy as hell.  I picked up RCA VT-99s but as I said I'm getting intermittent chatter in the left channel-- and I'm wondering if it's the adapter or the tube.  
  
 Plenty of square plate Tung Sol 6F8Gs on eBay, but it's the round everyone says to buy so for $250 I have to pass.  I may try another pair of non Tung Sol 6F8Gs but I'd like to try replacing the adapters first.
  
 I'm going back to trusty RCA 6SN7s in the meantime.  At least they're quiet.


----------



## reeltime

phase0 said:


> Even though that's even a lot more money than Taks I'm imagining that would be more of an improvement in my own setup than replacing the EML with Taks and sticking with the LCD-XC.
> 
> I like the glow tubes too  Where I'm at now still quite pleased with the level I've hit with all my new tubes.


 
  
 I had the EMLs for a long long time.  Great tubes.  I upgraded to Elrogs

 I love the Elrogs.  I have them paired with the metal base GZ34.  Great sound.  I'll try the TAKs someday, but this pairing is working well for me.
  


badas said:


> Elrog. Life issues. They burn out quickly.


 
  
  
 I've had my Elrogs for 2 years.  No issues.  I realize I'm in the minority.
  


phase0 said:


> Something in the back of my head is that I might fancy getting the Abyss Headphones next.


 
  
 I heard the Abyss for the first time at CanJam.  I wouldn't trade them for my HE-1000 in an even trade.  My opinion, of course.  Great bass, no question, but the rest of the frequencies couldn't match the HEK to my ears.  I was itching to make a change if I heard something I couldn't live without.  My wallet thanked me.


----------



## phase0

reeltime said:


> I bought NU 6F8Gs for my WA5LE based on someone's recommendation-- and they're noisy as hell.  I picked up RCA VT-99s but as I said I'm getting intermittent chatter in the left channel-- and I'm wondering if it's the adapter or the tube.
> 
> Plenty of square plate Tung Sol 6F8Gs on eBay, but it's the round everyone says to buy so for $250 I have to pass.  I may try another pair of non Tung Sol 6F8Gs but I'd like to try replacing the adapters first.


 
  
 Yea I'm running NU 6C8G. The NU 6F8G I tried were noisy. BTW where are the TSRP 6F8G for $250? I'd buy them. I want to at least try a set and decide for myself if I like them more/less than what I have now. I'm probably over worried about it and should be content with the NU. The last TS 6F8G I saw on eBay looked like the flat-plate ladder pattern.  The pictures for those ones on sale from Italy look like flat-plate.
  


reeltime said:


> I heard the Abyss for the first time at CanJam.  I wouldn't trade them for my HE-1000 in an even trade.  My opinion, of course.  Great bass, no question, but the rest of the frequencies couldn't match the HEK to my ears.  I was itching to make a change if I heard something I couldn't live without.  My wallet thanked me.


 
  
 I heard them both at a CanJam last year at a few different booths. Based on that I would pick the Abyss. I liked the HEK for acoustic instruments and some lighter stuff it was really impressive. I've read a few opinions either way (preference to HEK or preference to Abyss) and then some people keep both. Another subjective impression after it was all over was that the Abyss wasn't really THAT much better than my LCD-XC. I also have this conservative side of me telling myself to pay my car off and forget about Abyss for a while. People on the Abyss thread keep talking about how amazing it is and close to a 2-channel experience and less like headphones they are with proper adjustment. Seems like I missed something in the demos because I wasn't that blown away but they were really good.


----------



## Contrails

> I bought NU 6F8Gs for my WA5LE based on someone's recommendation-- and they're noisy as hell.  I picked up RCA VT-99s but as I said I'm getting intermittent chatter in the left channel-- and I'm wondering if it's the adapter or the tube


 
  
 I got some adapters for the ECC31 from ebay and my ECC tube/tubes are starting to pop and flash.  They were tested prior to purchase and it's a reliable seller too.  So I might have to change the adapters and see.  I am gonna be sending Glenn a message soon and use his adapters to check.


----------



## reeltime

phase0 said:


> Yea I'm running NU 6C8G. The NU 6F8G I tried were noisy. BTW where are the TSRP 6F8G for $250? I'd buy them. I want to at least try a set and decide for myself if I like them more/less than what I have now. I'm probably over worried about it and should be content with the NU. The last TS 6F8G I saw on eBay looked like the flat-plate ladder pattern.  The pictures for those ones on sale from Italy look like flat-plate.
> 
> 
> I heard them both at a CanJam last year at a few different booths. Based on that I would pick the Abyss. I liked the HEK for acoustic instruments and some lighter stuff it was really impressive. I've read a few opinions either way (preference to HEK or preference to Abyss) and then some people keep both. Another subjective impression after it was all over was that the Abyss wasn't really THAT much better than my LCD-XC. I also have this conservative side of me telling myself to pay my car off and forget about Abyss for a while. People on the Abyss thread keep talking about how amazing it is and close to a 2-channel experience and less like headphones they are with proper adjustment. Seems like I missed something in the demos because I wasn't that blown away but they were really good.


 
  
 They're at the link below, but these are all square plate 6F8G tubes.  I don't know how great the difference is, but others on Head-Fi have sworn by the round plate only. (sort highest priced first-- they're all around $250).
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=6f8g+tube&_sop=16
  
 The driver, to my ears, affects the sound the least in the WA5 (and LE).  I did prefer the overall VT-99 experience, but the noise chatter is a deal-breaker.  
  
 I think we had similar Abyss reactions.  I was expecting to be green with envy over the Abyss, and they're great headphones, no question.  
  
 But I like my HE-1000 more, as an overall package.  The HEK, with an upgraded cable (an absolute MUST with this headphone), doesn't really have a flaw to my ears.  That stock cable had a major treble issue that a replacement cleans up-- and I generally think all the cable hype is b.s., this is an exception to my own rule.  Everything I've heard since getting the HE-1000 is _different_, but not necessarily _better_.  
  
 BTW, I say this knowing full well the WA5LE is probably not the best amp source for the HE-1000.  I think they pair better with Cavalli amps and HeadAmp, and I'm probably forgetting a couple.  But I'm a Woo-head, so I'll just have to suffer with inferior sound on my gorgeous new amp.


----------



## phase0

reeltime said:


> They're at the link below, but these are all square plate 6F8G tubes.  I don't know how great the difference is, but others on Head-Fi have sworn by the round plate only. (sort highest priced first-- they're all around $250).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=6f8g+tube&_sop=16
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea on those TungSol tubes I think that's the mica you're referring to as square? But I'm talking about the side view of the plate it flat vs round. Check out this post:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/36480#post_12354216
  
 So far I think I like all the 6C8G or 6F8G more than the 6SN7. Right now I can't imagine things getting better than what I have but conceptually it seems there are ways. I haven't gotten into cable hype either. I heard a Nordost demo on a $300k system and couldn't tell the difference. That could just be my own limits in critical listening. I know the room was nodding after the demo rep told people what to listen for and what was better after their cable. It seemed like expectation bias to me. WillB mentioned Supra cables. Those don't look to oppressively expensive to try to put a toe into the cable waters. I wish I could borrow a cable and try to hear a diff for myself but right now I don't have any intention of buying super expensive cables.


----------



## reeltime

phase0 said:


> Yea on those TungSol tubes I think that's the mica you're referring to as square? But I'm talking about the side view of the plate it flat vs round. Check out this post:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/36480#post_12354216
> 
> I wish I could borrow a cable and try to hear a diff for myself but right now I don't have any intention of buying super expensive cables.


 
  
 Yeah, I can't tell which is round and which is square.  I know the difference is apparently important.  Not feeling like taking a chance on a $250 tube at the moment.  
  
 I've kinda shot my monthly allowance on audio gear.  I upgraded my cartridge and stylus on the turntable and that set me back $1600.  I'm not generally a classical music kinda guy, but my local record shop got loaded up on barely played shaded dog RCA Living Stereo records and I picked up a bunch-- so my new stylus is tracking them quite nicely through the Woo tonight.  They're dead quiet 60-year old records with amazing soundstage and detail.  I feel enlightened.  Looking for Grey Poupon.  
  
 I look for sales on cables.  I honestly probably can't pass a blind taste test-- except on this headphone cable.  The stock HE-1000 took all of the impact of snare drums out of the mix for some reason.  There was a lack of snap that had me thisclose to sending the HE-1000 back.  A Silver Dragon cable changed the whole treble presentation.  I haven't touched my HD-800 since.  Doesn't make sense to me entirely, but I can't deny the result.  I suppose I should sell the HD-800.  
  
 Anyway-- back on topic (rathole)-- hoping the culprit in my 6F8G drama is the adapter.  I do prefer the VT-99, if only in looks.  They seem a bit airier over the 6SN7.  I just can't stand the noise on the left channel.


----------



## 3083joe

reeltime said:


> They're at the link below, but these are all square plate 6F8G tubes.  I don't know how great the difference is, but others on Head-Fi have sworn by the round plate only. (sort highest priced first-- they're all around $250).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=6f8g+tube&_sop=16
> 
> ...



Look for 6c8g more gain and the same tube (also quieter). Work in woo no problems.


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> If you are going to go 6SN7 type tube without adapters. You can either go.
> 
> RCA 6SN7 either grey glass or clear. They sound the same.
> 
> ...


 
 For the link highlighted in red, it says the tubes come without sockets. Why is that? 
  
 For the driver tubes 6SN7, what do the letter designations mean 6SL7, 6SU7 (N, L, U, etc)


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> *I bought NU 6F8Gs for my WA5LE based on someone's recommendation*-- and they're noisy as hell.  I picked up RCA VT-99s but as I said I'm getting intermittent chatter in the left channel-- and I'm wondering if it's the adapter or the tube.
> 
> Plenty of square plate Tung Sol 6F8Gs on eBay, but it's the round everyone says to buy so for $250 I have to pass.  I may try another pair of non Tung Sol 6F8Gs but I'd like to try replacing the adapters first.
> 
> I'm going back to trusty RCA 6SN7s in the meantime.  At least they're quiet.


 
  
 I've highlighted this a number of times. Even yesterday. The NU 6F8G is noisy in the WA5. Nothing will fix that. I'm not going at you but it is a little frustrating. Buying NU 6F8G's for a WA5 is a waste.
  
 NU6F8G works fine in a WA22.
 NU6C8G works fine in a WA5
 NU6F8G is noisy in a WA5.
  
 NU6C8G and NU6F8G sound the same.
  
 The theory is that the 300B tubes are too much for the NU6F8G. 6080 power tubes in the WA22 are fine. As the NU6C8G has a higher gain it can handle the 300B tubes in the WA5.
  
 Don't buy Tung-Sol flat plates or square plates. They are not worth the $$'s demanded. Flat plates are made by RCA and square plates are made by Sylvania. Only the round plates are worth the $$'s.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> For the link highlighted in red, it says the tubes come without sockets. Why is that?


 
   
 It really didn't mean anything. In the photo they were using a socket to hold the tube up. All they were saying is that the socket wasn't part of the auction.
  
  
 Quote:


ken6217 said:


> For the driver tubes 6SN7, what do the letter designations mean 6SL7, 6SU7 (N, L, U, etc)


 
  
 They gave a designed tube which had a different voltage or power a different number. 6SL7 has more voltage and higher gain than a 6SN7. So a different code.
  
 6SL7 and 6SU7 are essentially the same. 6SU7 was a military version of the 6SL7. Where they would run the tube for 48 hours. Then test the voltage and make matched pairs with very close voltage results. In the real world and for use in our amps this will not be required.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> Anyway-- back on topic (rathole)-- hoping the culprit in my 6F8G drama is the adapter.  I do prefer the VT-99, if only in looks.  They seem a bit airier over the 6SN7. * I just can't stand the noise on the left channel.  *


 
  
 That will likely be a tube issue. Switch the tube to the other side and listen. If the noise travels to the right then it is the tube.
 You can do the same thing with the adapter to check also.
 Make sure adapter wires are not touching or going near power tubes.


----------



## Stereolab42

reeltime said:


> Anyway-- back on topic (rathole)-- hoping the culprit in my 6F8G drama is the adapter.  I do prefer the VT-99, if only in looks.  They seem a bit airier over the 6SN7.  I just can't stand the noise on the left channel.


 
  
 You need the 6F8G adapters with the plastic, not the metal, base. They are on eBay. Have had noise issues with the metal base variety, but the plastic ones with the black/brown base work great.


----------



## abvolt

Well so far I've got to agree with joe on the 6bl7's using a pair of sylvania's they sound very good well worth a try for sure..


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Well so far I've got to agree with joe on the 6bl7's using a pair of sylvania's they sound very good well worth a try for sure..


 
  
 I followed up on the pair that I ordered yesterday. Ordered a few weeks ago.
 They are on the way. They have to come from Canada to New Zealand tho. So they will take a while.
  
 I'm looking forward to them. If they are quiet in my amp I will also try the flat plate ladder version.
  
 I finally got the nerve to re-install the TAK274B rectifier. Next time I listen it will be the first time using the new Vega DAC / TAK. I'm scared of how great it will sound. The Vega / Brimar was faultless.


----------



## Badas

Just an update regarding the noisy power tube problem in my WA22.
  
 Three weeks ago there was a discussion about this and Jack asked me to take it out of the threads and to contact him instead.
  
 In which I did immediately. Actually I contacted Woo in the first month of owning the amp and again very hardly before the warranty ended. Both times I was ignored. The latest ploy was that I didn't buy this legitly. Which is stupid. I was in contact with them before I purchased and was talking about having a pre-amp option. In which they said they wouldn't do (altho they had done and have done since). I told them what store I was going to purchase from and they said everything was fine (I've kept all the emails).
  
 So the latest? After being asked to take it out of the threads and contact Jack directly I've got absolutely nothing. Absolutely ignored again. Woo is great at selling amps. Not so great when there is a problem.
  
 I don't want to start the whole noisy tube discussion again. There has been enough posts and info around already. I have kinda got use to the fact that this will never be resolved. So I will stick to the small selection of power tubes that stay quiet. I just wanted to highlight the lack of support.
  
_I may get a ban for this post. So what. It needed to be said. _


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ...
> 
> _I may get a ban for this post. So what. It needed to be said. _


 
  
 You should not get banned for stating the facts around your interactions with a supplier.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> I finally got the nerve to re-install the TAK274B rectifier. Next time I listen it will be the first time using the new Vega DAC / TAK. I'm scared of how great it will sound. The Vega / Brimar was faultless.


 
 Maybe get a friend to swap out the tubes for you, and not tell you which one they are inserting? Would make for a good blind test.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> Just an update regarding the noisy power tube problem in my WA22.
> 
> Three weeks ago there was a discussion about this and Jack asked me to take it out of the threads and to contact him instead.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you tried 6BL7s yet instead of noisy 6AS7s?


----------



## ymc226

Badas,
  
 sent you a PM


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Maybe get a friend to swap out the tubes for you, and not tell you which one they are inserting? Would make for a good blind test.


 
  
 Good idea. The Brimars are really singing. I just wanted to see what else the TAK will bring. The TAK is amazing. No matter what rectifier I use they both sound fabulous and I really shouldn't swap so much. So I can tell what the 6BL7 tubes do to the sound when they arrive.
  


2359glenn said:


> Have you tried 6BL7s yet instead of noisy 6AS7s?


 
  
 Not yet. I have a nice looking set on the way. Thanks for recommending.


tonynewman said:


> You should not get banned for stating the facts around your interactions with a supplier.


 
  
 Time will tell. Woo is a big sponsor on the site and $$'s talk.


ymc226 said:


> Badas,
> 
> sent you a PM


 
  
 Okay I will get to it.


----------



## reeltime

stereolab42 said:


> You need the 6F8G adapters with the plastic, not the metal, base. They are on eBay. Have had noise issues with the metal base variety, but the plastic ones with the black/brown base work great.


 
  


badas said:


> That will likely be a tube issue. Switch the tube to the other side and listen. If the noise travels to the right then it is the tube.
> You can do the same thing with the adapter to check also.
> Make sure adapter wires are not touching or going near power tubes.


 

 I do have the plastic base version of the adapter.  I bend the wire around to the front of the tube.  It keeps the wires away from those 300B tubes and looks kinda cool.  
  
 I do believe it's the left tube.  I was willing to try different adapters first, simply because they're cheaper than replacing the tubes.  
  
 On the tubes: I can't find any round plate 6F8Gs or 6C8Gs anywhere.  Plenty of square plate Tung Sol 6F8Gs (and RCA and Sylvanias and NUs), and plenty of single 6C8Gs, but no matching pairs.
  
 I keep looking.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Thanks for the updates @badas  
  
 Speaking of the Brimars, finally got around to driving them with the 6FD7 in the 6SE and I am pleased to report that this is the first time they really did something for me on all of my cans.  In other words I did not have to make excuses for the valve. Ha Ha. Of course YMMV.
  
 In other news, after a four week wait, my adapter finally arrived for 5Z3s and with a couple of hours burn-in I am quite pleased.
  

  
 edit:  added pix


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Good idea. The Brimars are really singing. I just wanted to see what else the TAK will bring. The TAK is amazing. No matter what rectifier I use they both sound fabulous and I really shouldn't swap so much. So I can tell what the 6BL7 tubes do to the sound when they arrive.


 
  
 Have you ever had the chance to try Mullard ECC35 and compare to 6[C|F]8G? I was looking back through the thread and someone thought it was better. They demand a higher price on eBay as well it appears.
  
 Edit: oops I saw just yesterday you answered. Sorry...


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Just an update regarding the noisy power tube problem in my WA22.
> 
> Three weeks ago there was a discussion about this and Jack asked me to take it out of the threads and to contact him instead.
> 
> ...


 

 100% in agreement with you Dono, except that the non communication extends to you when you buy their TOTL amps. Both Matt and I have had reason to contact Jack and I will only comment on my personal experiences. I haven't had noisy tubes but I have had a other issues with my 234's and getting a response out of Jack is basically impossible even when you leave a message on his cell phone which I have if anyone needs it PM me. I will go into more detail on my response to your "what are you up to"? post.


----------



## abvolt

phase0 said:


> Have you ever had the chance to try Mullard ECC35 and compare to 6[C|F]8G? I was looking back through the thread and someone thought it was better. They demand a higher price on eBay as well it appears.
> 
> Edit: oops I saw just yesterday you answered. Sorry...


 
  
 I have and there's no comparison as far as I'm concerned all of the eccxx's are hands down the winner over any 6c8g or 6f8g's..Enjoy


----------



## isquirrel

3083joe said:


> Is it the EML that I've heard issue with or is it another 300b, can't remember


 

 I have had "issues" with every 300B - EML, SERP, etc etc except for the Takatsuki and the Western Electric irrespective of vintage. IMHO the latest EML's which come with a 5 year warranty are the best of the rest if you're on a tight budget. The Takatsuki's must be the best value as they last forever, I have a pair which test like new and they have 4,000 + Hours on them. I am no expert but would have thought that since we are only drawing very low power that a good set of tubes should last you many, many years in which case they represent the best value for money.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> I have had "issues" with every 300B - EML, SERP, etc etc except for the Takatsuki and the Western Electric irrespective of vintage. IMHO the latest EML's which come with a 5 year warranty are the best of the rest if you're on a tight budget. The Takatsuki's must be the best value as they last forever,* I have a pair which test like new and they have 4,000 + Hours on them. I am no expert but would have thought that since we are only drawing very low power that a good set of tubes should last you many, many years in which case they represent the best value for money.*


 
  
 Right then. That's it. I'm leaving the TAK274B in my amp then. It certainly sounds the best.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> 100% in agreement with you Dono, except that the non communication extends to you when you buy their TOTL amps. Both Matt and I have had reason to contact Jack and I will only comment on my personal experiences. I haven't had noisy tubes but I have had a other issues with my 234's and getting a response out of Jack is basically impossible even when you leave a message on his cell phone which I have if anyone needs it PM me. I will go into more detail on my response to your "what are you up to"? post.


 
  
 It is not a good look for a company that markets itself as being great. After sales service is so damn important.


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> I had the EMLs for a long long time.  Great tubes.  I upgraded to Elrogs
> 
> I love the Elrogs.  I have them paired with the metal base GZ34.  Great sound.  I'll try the TAKs someday, but this pairing is working well for me.
> 
> ...


 

 I run the Elrog's with the Takatsuki 274B rectifier, not the Mullard metal base, the Tak 274B gives the Elrog a lovely blend of texture, bass and the midrange fills out very nicely. The GZ34 + Elrog is a little to lean for me, the main thing is Dunstep Girl's Rectifier thread sums it up well, in the it is the coolest most SS sounding rectifier I have used. I usually run the MUllard GZ34 with the Takatsuki 300B, instead of the Tak 274B, both Takatsuki's together do give the best bottom end performance if thats what you are looking for. However you may find the pairing to sound a little heavy and so the Mullard rectifier adds speed and changes the bass to be better controlled and rhythmic and spices up vocals and the general mid range area. It is special combo and probably the one I use most of, it excels on EDM, Soundtracks and when well run in exceptional clarity 2nd only to the C3G/Elrog/Tak 274B combo The Mullard GZ34 metal base lasts literally forever, I have a pair which I bought off an older friend in the US which he had been using regularly for 15 years or so, had them tested and I was stunned as they tested almost as new, in fact if I hadn't had a brand new pair to compare them to on the tube testing machine both the test tech and I would have assumed they were as new.
  
 I don't have a accurate log of hours for those due to being the 2nd owner but I was told they had been well used and likely to have 20-30,000 hours on them. By now they just must have another 3,000, I use them for burning in everything. They go for $500-$800 USD for a single, but again given the life, they represent extremely good value for money.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> "If you are going to go 6SN7 type tube without adapters. You can either go.
> 
> RCA 6SN7 either grey glass or clear. They sound the same."


 
  
 I accidentally tripped over these on EBay a while ago - advertised "as the Best 6SN7 ever" I had to try them. They cost $340 USD but looked like new, the boxes added to the new feeling, they really should have been kept in a Museum collection they were so well presented. They have a bit more bass than the TSRP and a wider soundstage, overall a bit more weight to the sound however they have excellent clarity. For a while I though these are the best sounding 6SN7's I have heard but over a couple of months I began to notice a slight edginess to the upper vocal range which became tiresome once I got used to identifying it. Certainly the best of the RCA's - unless you prefer the totally different smoky sound of the 5692 Red Base "missile tubes"


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> I hope you don't mind me asking? However a while back you mentioned some very interesting projects you were working on.
> 
> ...


 

 No problem, this will be a long post, but I will try and keep it as compact as I can.
  
 I have been working towards getting the best source and working my way back from there. As you know I started with a laptop and Aurdirvana, then went with an Antipodes DX, runs off Linux and had USB output only, then went to Computer Audio Design CAT server running Windows 8.1, as soon as Roon Server was released I changed over to Roon as my music software of choice. Still using USB Audio. I went through a number of DAC's ended up with the Nagra HD DAC and MPS battery power supply, the DAC ran a single JAN 5963 double triode (essentially a ‘super’ ECC82, with beefed up anodes to give it almost solid-state bandwidth and signal-to-noise ratio) which sounded the best I had heard digital - ever. At this stage still using USB as the digital source connection. 
  
 An Aurender W20 turned up on demo, this was a great opportunity as for the 1st time I was able to try different digital connections such as SPDIF 75 ohm, AES 110ohm, optical and USB all out of one box. The DAC also accepted all of these connections, it quickly became apparent that at least in my system that AES 110 ohm connection was easily the best. After some research it became clear that the W20 was going to suit, it has 12TB of hard disc storage, which loads the music you select to play onto a 240GB SSD, giving you the best compromise in storage size whilst retaining the sonic benefits of a SSD drive. Aurenders software runs off a tablet, iPad in my case and is hooked up to the system via ethernet to the router. The software also has easy access to streaming services, QOBUZ and Tidal. So a W20 replaced the CAD CAT. Roon had been working beautifully on the CAT and for now its not available on the Aurender, hopefully this will change - soon. AES is the connection I use, the W20 also has the ability to be slaved to an external clock which was unused at this stage due to the Nagra not having the facility.
  
 At the same time I had come to the conclusion that the difference with the DAC's I had used in the system, that there was no major jump in performance between them. This led me to one of two conclusions, that either this was as good as digital gets, give or take 5% or there was still out there an uber DAC that did offer a large jump in performance. That led me to look into MSB, dCS, Lampizator and Light Harmonic, the usual suspects. I had heard the dCS and the Lampi previously, the LH uber DAC - the Sire was not in production and MSB were unknown. I won't bore everyone with the details but I did some exhaustive research and listened to the advice of knowledgeable friends in the US who have much better access to high end gear and wound up talking to and learning a lot from the MSB distributor here, Audio Fidelity in Melbourne who is primarily an engineer 1st. My research led me to conclude that MSB where probably the way to go. (They are a company who are really a big family of engineers, the Gullman family, I think Larry Gullman has several son's all of whom are engineers and all work in the company.) 
  
 As you know digital technology changes quickly and I was concerned that a large investment in a DAC would prove pointless as it would be superseded quickly. MSB explained they had a solution to this problem called the Select DAC program. The Select is what you would end up with if you went on a shopping spree for the best bits for a DAC and put them in one package, to cap it off they guarantee for 10 years from date of purchase that as they produce the inevitable upgrades that you pay no more than the difference in cost to keep current, even if they change the chassis or anything else major. The tech specs of the Select II are amazing, for the sake of brevity I will just say that I accept those published by MSB. Frankly I don't really care how it measures if it sounds amazing. The distributor lent me his newly delivered Select II, the initial run was for 50 DAC's all of which were spoken for except 2. The waiting list was getting silly so I put  deposit down subject to hearing one. The demo Select II turned up just between Christmas and the New Year a great time for listening to music 24/7. Fririce0003 was staying with us so we setup the MSB, its not a small piece of equipment and at the price we were very very careful. It took about 2 tracks for both of us to realise that this was sonic dynamite. I have never heard digital music like that. After robbing several banks and smashing the piggy bank the deal was done and then I waited and waited. And waited... finally in early March my DAC turned up, I had ordered mine with dual power bases and the most accurate clock Femto 33. This combo has a dynamic range of 190+ dB and an effective resolution of over 28 bits. The other good bit is finally the external word clock slave to the DAC's clock can be used, this makes quite a difference. The DAC has no output stage so it can run headphones direct no problem. However to some of my audiophile friends consternation I like it through a valve amp, the Woo 234's. I have tried both and by a huge margin I prefer the single ended outputs into the 234's SE inputs. Why the balanced connection is there when its not balanced at all I don't know, it has caused me no end of grief as I assumed it was properly balanced although as a single ended valve amp logic dictates otherwise. However after some emails, Jack answered with:
  
 Hi Simon,
  
 The balanced connector is wired in unbalanced. I'd say RCA is better because of the premium grade connectors.
  
 Jack
  
 There are many other parts to this story of course but that's the meat of it. Oh I sold the HE-1000's and have settled on the LCD-4, I got mine from the US and they are still going strong, they are the original 100 ohm version.
  
 Future projects:
  
 Late October last year after I started playing around with super high resolution sources, DAC's etc, it became clear that the amp was the limiting factor, a large part of that is due to the fact that its a valve amp and there is no way it can get close to the dynamic range of a solid state amp, however from my use I began to see how the 234's could be improved.
  
 1: I have no need to run speakers through it, I had tried some Kef LS 50's and on my desktop and it was hugely underpowered, so unless I was going to start playing with horns, speakers were not on the agenda. I figured that mean't that the transformer could be replaced with one that was specifically for Headphone listening only. 
  
 2: Minor things like my sockets were showing signs of wear, I do not change valves much anymore but the sockets should be better than they are. - I understand that Woo amps all have improved sockets now and have had for at least a year. I also have a noisy volume control which clicks annoyingly thru the headphones when adjusted, there is leakage between nuts, for example I can hear music through another output even when I have not selected it.
  
 3: Allow for an external pre-a,p to be used or in my case be able to bypass the internal volume control circuitry (which should improve SQ) - I understand Woo have been playing around with this and have had good results.
  
 4: Improve where possible the amps internal parts, use 100% OCC wiring. 
  
 5: Do an overview of the amps and see where and how they can be improved. When the 234's were initially released they were a landmark statement piece at a statement price. Some years have gone by and the price is no longer the sticker shock it used to be, plus the headphone market has rocketed forward and there are other amp manufacturers out there which have competing products, (Viva, etc etc) sorry I am having brain fade but you get the gist I am sure.
  
 6: C3G's - Thanks to our good friend Tony putting me onto them (which I think came from Glenn originally so he deserves the credit) I had Woo make some adapters for the 234's. I now pretty much exclusively use these. According to Jack, the adapters do not allow for the maximum potential of these tubes to be used, (they get close) so more work needs to be dome there. Once you get used to that clarity its hard to go back, even to TSRP's.
  
 So I approached Jack, put these and some other idea's forward and said I would commit to the 1st pair, call then a super 234 or whatever. I believe generally Woo do a good job and they have played a major part in the birth of the headphone industry, so personally I would like to see them stay at the front of headphone valve amp design, plus I love the industrial design of the 234's. I am waiting for further action on this, I understand Jack has been very busy with the launch of the WA8. Still I would like to give him some encouragement to push forward on this project. I have no idea when / if / it will happen.
  
 Need to take a break now, happy to answer any questions.


----------



## TonyNewman

Great post Simon.
  
 Glenn is indeed the wellspring from which C3G goodness has flowed. What an amazing driver tube it is. My 300B amp uses PY500 rectifiers, which are also extremely transparent, so I like to use a rich + full bodied 300B. The TA300B is the best I have heard. Just an amazing tube that does everything well.
  
 I am now a DAC convert. To my mind, the music starts once the DAC has done its magic and an analogue signal is in play. Before that it is an exercise in data transfer (I know some audiophiles will be coughing up hairballs at that statement - YMMV).
  
 My recent upgrade from the Auralic Vega to the Hegel HD30 has opened my mind (and ears) to what a difference a few steps up the DAC ladder can make. Compared to the uber DACs in your post I am playing the shallow end of the kiddie pool, but the improvement is the thing, and I getting a big lift in my musical engagement from the DAC upgrade.
  
 If you get the time to post some pics of your rig I know they will be appreciated (and drooled over).


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> The Mullard GZ34 metal base lasts literally forever, I have a pair which I bought off an older friend in the US which he had been using regularly for 15 years or so, had them tested and I was stunned as they tested almost as new, in fact if I hadn't had a brand new pair to compare them to on the tube testing machine both the test tech and I would have assumed they were as new.


 
  
 I've had a number of metal base GZ34s over the years (dating back to my first Woo amp-- the WA6 (gateway drug anyone?).  I've not found a better sounding rectifier, or a more durable one, in all of my pursuits (haven't heard the Tak 274s).  At the same time-- I've not found an uglier tube for the WA5LE.  Stumpy, boring, very little glow-- totally out of place in this big gorgeous amp.  
  
 Until you hear them.  
  
 Crazy that a tube built 60-years ago can sound this good.  These things were used in single speaker amplifiers driving AM radio sets.  They should sound horrible, on the face of it.


----------



## Badas

^

Simon.

Wow. You have been busy. Thanks for the update. I'm always gooey when I hear of your projects.

MSB sounds amazing I guess the first question and request is please can we have a juicy picture. I myself enjoy that type of stuff.

Your comments on the WA234 makes sense. Yes the WA234 should be balanced throughout. RCA inputs being the best input seems seriously flawed. Having speaker outputs is trying to please everyone and also makes sense to concentrate on one purpose. That is making the very best HP amp. Does the Viva have speaker outputs? I guess the Viva would be the main competion? 
C3G will team up better with the 300B type power tubes better than 6SN7 so that is a worthy project as well.
If Woo removed the speaker output would that allow space for better transformers or are they of a high enough grade?

If a super WA234 ever gets developed by Jack and yourself that will be a marvel. I look foward to seeing and hearing about it. A challenge for Woo but I think a worthy one. They can make remarkable products if they commit to it.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I am now a DAC convert. To my mind, the music starts once the DAC has done its magic and an analogue signal is in play. Before that it is an exercise in data transfer (I know some audiophiles will be coughing up hairballs at that statement - YMMV).
> 
> If you get the time to post some pics of your rig I know they will be appreciated (and drooled over).


 
  
 I am digging through photos and will post shorty. Actually the music starts the moment you rip the file or download it, whichever. The quality of the file is paramount. For example I have ripped the same CD 3 times, using different drives and one time from a music server the CAT had its own drive. They all sound different. The Aurender does not have a physical media drive so I have been playing around with XLD and dB Poweramp both of which support AccurateRip database. XLD sounds more natural. The source should be "bit perfect" with the MSB its easy to check I play a test file for each sample rate and if its bit perfect the DAC tells me on its display. If your source is not bit perfect you are handicapped from the start. I did not believe in music servers, I do now. However you are right the DAC makes a hell of difference.


----------



## isquirrel

Photos of the system and of the DAC, dinner is on the table, will post more after


----------



## TonyNewman

Thanks - nice pics. Sweet setup.
  
 Ever thought about diving into electrostats? The KGSSHV Carbon + SR-009 combination has caught my eye, but I have blown my audio wad on the HD30 upgrade. Maybe next year.


----------



## Badas




----------



## Badas

Hey Simon,

You have the Chord Dave there as well. How is it?
I don't supose you turn it on when you have MSB.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> You have the Chord Dave there as well. How is it?
> I don't supose you turn it on when you have MSB.


 

 Dave is good, excellent DAC. Its gone now.


----------



## isquirrel

Some technical photos of the plumbing


----------



## isquirrel

DAC inputs + outputs


----------



## Rossliew

Awesome pics there! Those power cables are thick as pythons! What power conditioner are you using may I ask?


----------



## isquirrel

rossliew said:


> Awesome pics there! Those power cables are thick as pythons! What power conditioner are you using may I ask?


 

 Shunyata Triton & Typhon, PC cables are Sigma's Analog, HC for the amps and digital for the source and DAC


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

isquirrel said:


> Photos of the system and of the DAC, dinner is on the table, will post more after
> 
> 
> 
> Is the LCD-4 a new addition as well?  Does it hold its own with the Abyss and HE-1000?


----------



## Rossliew

isquirrel said:


> Shunyata Triton & Typhon, PC cables are Sigma's Analog, HC for the amps and digital for the source and DAC




Awesome! Shall need to check them out at the local dealer. Thanks, mate!


----------



## thecrow

isquirrel said:


> Photos of the system and of the DAC, dinner is on the table, will post more after


I'm wondering if your overall set up is any good. 

As it doesn't seem to be one that a lot of people have gone with. .


----------



## Krutsch

tonynewman said:


> ...
> 
> I am now a DAC convert. To my mind, the music starts once the DAC has done its magic and an analogue signal is in play.* Before that it is an exercise in data transfer* (I know some audiophiles will be coughing up hairballs at that statement - YMMV).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am a source convert. Stable, noise-free delivery of the waveform that is translated into 1s and 0s matters - a lot.


----------



## Krutsch

mikelap said:


> Ive also bought other adapters on Ebay with no issues and the ones i did have issues with were bought several years ago when adapter were getting popular i especially like the adapters using cmc sockets and for me due to our low currency alot  more affordable and so far of good quality   .


 
  
 I've had some challenges with these, also purchased on eBay. The little sleeves on the top side will pull out with a tight fitting tube.
  
 Since then, I've switched over to Tube Monger's socket savers.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> ... as soon as Roon Server was released I changed over to Roon as my music software of choice.


 
  
 Simon,
  
 I don't know if you've looked into HQ Player (signalyst.com), but I've been impressed with the sound out Roon, especially after trying the poly-sinc filter variants. Ear-opening for me.
  
 And, it's an inexpensive setup to get started: Mac Mini (RoonServer) + HQ Player Desktop ($149.00 US) --> Ethernet (I actually run a wireless bridge - Airport Express - to isolate) --> Cubox-i4Pro (solid-run.com - $139 US) + iFi Audio iPower 5v ($49.00 US) + HQ Player's Network Audio Adapter (NAA) SD card boot image (free) --> optical out to DAC (also supports USB, but I like the optical and it's flawless up to 192/24).


----------



## thecrow

tonynewman said:


> I am now a DAC convert. To my mind, the music starts once the DAC has done its magic and an analogue signal is in play. Before that it is an exercise in data transfer (I know some audiophiles will be coughing up hairballs at that statement - YMMV).


 
 +1
  
 absolutely - a relatively new revelation and realisation for me (too) for when you start throwing some $$ into a system


----------



## thecrow

isquirrel said:


> Good one Dono, she's great, Currency of Man (The Artist's Cut) is very good also.


 

 you may be onto something there
  
 just heard preacherman - it's great.
  
 i'll listen to the album tomorrow
  
 thanks


----------



## ken6217

tonynewman said:


> I am now a DAC convert. To my mind, the music starts once the DAC has done its magic and an analogue signal is in play. Before that it is an exercise in data transfer (I know some audiophiles will be coughing up hairballs at that statement - YMMV).


 
  
 So you are saying that the equipment getting the signal to the DAC is irrelevant and it will all sound the same after it passes through the DAC? Try listening to a good music server and then the same think on a Macbook. It would be impossible for you not to be able to hear the difference.


----------



## nwavesailor

reeltime said:


> I do have the plastic base version of the adapter.  I bend the wire around to the front of the tube.  It keeps the wires away from those 300B tubes and looks kinda cool.
> 
> I do believe it's the left tube.  I was willing to try different adapters first, simply because they're cheaper than replacing the tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 So is the issue folks are having with 'noisy' 6F8G tubes, noise, or is it microphonic tubes? I have 5 pairs of TS and NU round plates that are quiet (with glenn adapters) but with varying degrees or microphonics. I considered listing some for sale but want to know if somewhat microphonic 6F8G's are 'normal' before doing so?


----------



## reeltime

nwavesailor said:


> So is the issue folks are having with 'noisy' 6F8G tubes, noise, or is it microphonic tubes? I have 5 pairs of TS and NU round plates that are quiet (with glenn adapters) but with varying degrees or microphonics. I considered listing some for sale but want to know if somewhat microphonic 6F8G's are 'normal' before doing so?


 

 It sounds very close to EMF interference.  My first reaction when I heard the chatter was to check to see if I'd left a cell phone next to my amp.  If I'm playing music loud, I won't even hear it.  But on quiet passages it's totally disruptive.  It occurs at various intervals-- seemingly random, but I've not timed it.  Sometimes I can get it to quit if I turn the volume down to nothing and back up.  Other times it doesn't clear.  
  
 It's not a popping sound like some tubes make-- it's electrical sounding.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> Photos of the system and of the DAC, dinner is on the table, will post more after


 
 Holly Molly!! That is an impressive system! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 That is my dream rack (I am talking about audio equipment racks guys! ) but I can not afford it it is as expensive as the other rack you are thinking about!


----------



## leftside

tonynewman said:


> I am now a DAC convert. To my mind, the music starts once the DAC has done its magic and an analogue signal is in play. Before that it is an exercise in data transfer (I know some audiophiles will be coughing up hairballs at that statement - YMMV).


 
 It's a contentious issue, but after trying multiple different high-end transports, I tend to agree. I use JRiver to bitstream via USB to my DAC. Speakers/headphones and DAC are more important than digital source (in my system anyway).
  
 Things are different in an analog system with turntable, cart, phono pre, etc.


----------



## TonyNewman

ken6217 said:


> So you are saying that the equipment getting the signal to the DAC is irrelevant and it will all sound the same after it passes through the DAC? Try listening to a good music server and then the same think on a Macbook. It would be impossible for you not to be able to hear the difference.


 
  
 I disagree. I have tried a high end music server, and to my ears it made no sonic difference whatsoever vs USB from my PC or SPDIF from a docking station. If you really believe that it makes a difference, then do a blind test. If the difference is as strong as you say, then you should have no problems distinguishing between the sources. I can't.


----------



## ken6217

tonynewman said:


> I disagree. I have tried a high end music server, and to my ears it made no sonic difference whatsoever vs USB from my PC or SPDIF from a docking station. If you really believe that it makes a difference, then do a blind test. If the difference is as strong as you say, then you should have no problems distinguishing between the sources. I can't.


 

 I can certainly hear a difference. Not just in sources, but over USB versus AES cable.


----------



## TonyNewman

ken6217 said:


> I can certainly hear a difference. Not just in sources, but over USB versus AES cable.


 

  Then a blind test should be easy.


----------



## ymc226

I was almost 100% going to start with a WA-22 but since I intend to widen my headphone collection in the future, have been talking myself into starting with a WA-5LE.
  
 The cost jump is substantial and would like to know what the parts upgrade package for $1250 in addition improves in audio quality, durability or both.


----------



## nwavesailor

reeltime said:


> It sounds very close to EMF interference.  My first reaction when I heard the chatter was to check to see if I'd left a cell phone next to my amp.  If I'm playing music loud, I won't even hear it.  But on quiet passages it's totally disruptive.  It occurs at various intervals-- seemingly random, but I've not timed it.  Sometimes I can get it to quit if I turn the volume down to nothing and back up.  Other times it doesn't clear.
> 
> It's not a popping sound like some tubes make-- it's electrical sounding.


 

 OK........I have 'glenn' adapters and a cheap 6F8G / 6SN7 adapter. Glenns are quiet. I can move the small ga wire on the China version and hear EMF type noise!
  
 Wondering if most folks found their TSRP 6F8G to be fairly microphonic?


----------



## ken6217

tonynewman said:


> Then a blind test should be easy.


 

 But not necessary


----------



## Stereolab42

krutsch said:


> I've had some challenges with these, also purchased on eBay. The little sleeves on the top side will pull out with a tight fitting tube.


 
  
 Had that happen a couple times, easily fixed with some metal/ceramic epoxy.


----------



## Krutsch

stereolab42 said:


> Had that happen a couple times, easily fixed with some metal/ceramic epoxy.


 

 Good tip...  still have them and I should try that.


----------



## Badas

nwavesailor said:


> OK........I have 'glenn' adapters and a cheap 6F8G / 6SN7 adapter. Glenns are quiet. I can move the small ga wire on the China version and hear EMF type noise!
> 
> *Wondering if most folks found their TSRP 6F8G to be fairly microphonic?*


 

 I have 16 sets (32 tubes). All Nos. All quiet. No microphonics.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I've had some challenges with these, also purchased on eBay. The little sleeves on the top side will pull out with a tight fitting tube.
> 
> Since then, I've switched over to Tube Monger's socket savers.


 
  
  


stereolab42 said:


> Had that happen a couple times, easily fixed with some metal/ceramic epoxy.


 
  
  


krutsch said:


> Good tip...  still have them and I should try that.


 
  
 I just shove them back in. That also works.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> I have 16 sets (32 tubes). All Nos. All quiet. No microphonics.


 
  
 Putting on my OCD hat... We have the *6C8G* TS RP, not the _*6F8G*_ TS RP.
  
 Never had a problem with the TS RP 6C8G in the WA5 (before I sold it), but don't know about the 6F8G version. For NUs there was/is a real issue for NU 6F8G in the WA5, whereas the NU 6C8G is fine. TS RP might be the same. Can't say.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Putting on my OCD hat... We have the *6C8G* TS RP, not the _*6F8G*_ TS RP.
> 
> Never had a problem with the TS RP 6C8G in the WA5 (before I sold it), but don't know about the 6F8G version. For NUs there was/is a real issue for NU 6F8G in the WA5, whereas the NU 6C8G is fine. TS RP might be the same. Can't say.


 
  
 Oh! Well spotted.
  
 Yes. Sorry. I have TS RP 6C8G. Not TS RP 6F8G.
 Sorry for any confusion.
  
 Asides from TS. Tony and I have several sets of NU in 6F and 6C. I have two. Tony has about 10 I think.
  
 Also about 50 sets of RCA 6C8G (about 25 sets each).
  
 I also have a set of RCA 6F8G flat plate.
  
 I've rolled 99% of my drive tubes. I roll all my tubes to make sure they are okay*.
  
 I didn't come across one noisy or microphonic tube.
  
 *Another side point. There is a theory that if you don't run Nos tubes for at least 2 hours once every decade that they lose power. For that reason I have used all my Nos tubes for one two hour session. All were fine and stored away. I will run them all again in 2025.


----------



## nwavesailor

badas said:


> I have 16 sets (32 tubes). All Nos. All quiet. No microphonics.


 

  Badas.....I was wondering if you meant you had 16pairs of _*6C8G *_not 6F8G!
  
 I think 6F8G may be more prone to microphonics. I bought these from a guy (some years ago) who has an entire warehouse of NOS tubes and I choose these 6F8G's from a huge box of these tubes. If I had known that they would be going for $200+ a pair now, I would have bought the entire box of 150-200 tubes!!!


----------



## Badas

nwavesailor said:


> Badas.....I was wondering if you meant you had 16pairs of _*6C8G *_not 6F8G!
> 
> I think 6F8G may be more prone to microphonics. I bought these from a guy (some years ago) who has an entire warehouse of NOS tubes and I choose these 6F8G's from a huge box of these tubes. If I had known that they would be going for $200+ a pair now, I would have bought the entire box of 150-200 tubes!!!


 

 Yes. Correct. 6C8G
  
 Yeah Tony and I discovered an Aussie seller with 30 odd sets of TS RP 6C8G. We bought the lot and then divided them up. Since doing that last year they have doubled in price.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Yes. Correct. 6C8G
> 
> Yeah Tony and I discovered an Aussie seller with 30 odd sets of TS RP 6C8G. We bought the lot and then divided them up. Since doing that last year they have doubled in price.


 
  
 Badas really made the discovery. I was an opportunistic parasite hitching a ride.
  
 Excellent tubes. Even the cardboard boxes (from 1945) are in excellent condition.
  
 I would rate the TS RP slight ahead of the NU, but really both are superb tubes.


----------



## Badas

tonynewman said:


> Badas really made the discovery. I was an opportunistic parasite hitching a ride.
> 
> Excellent tubes. Even the cardboard boxes (from 1945) are in excellent condition.
> 
> I would rate the TS RP slight ahead of the NU, but really both are superb tubes.


 

  
 Here was one of my shipments. Look at that condition. As if they just came off the shelf.
  
 Best tube purchase I have done.


----------



## abvolt

Wow I had 4 sets of those but your's are in truly pristine condition, sold all my 6c-6f tubes after I've tried the mullard ecc31 &35's so far superior it's like i'm never going back their just that good..Enjoy


----------



## phase0

isquirrel said:


> Photos of the system and of the DAC, dinner is on the table, will post more after


 
  
 I'm looking at that setup in awe and wonder... If you want to talk about it some more I'm curious (1) what is all that stuff on the racks? (2) Why those things deserved a permanent spot on your rack? You've obviously put a lot of time and money into this (Much more than me). I wonder if myself and others could benefit from your experience. My little rig seems like the kiddie sandbox by comparison but it was the big time nervous spend at the time diving into the unknown hoping I made good choices without much experience or anything to compare. I'm into my setup in more $ than anyone else I know except one guy who is into vinyl and hi-fi and he tells me to forget about headphones as a real stereo is the only way to experience music. I have a custom made stand on the way soon but not as fancy as all that up there.
  
 Beyond that I'm looking for best bang for buck. I think my tube issues are solved for now but I'm still curious about the ECC35 route or the C3G w/ Adapters since it seems to have its fans. In My chain the DAC and Headphones were jaw dropping huge improvements. The WA5 was a bit disappointing until I changed the tubes from stock and now I think it's incredible.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Simon.
> 
> ...


 
 Dono,
  
 Thanks for the kind comments. I would have agreed about your comments re RCA inputs vs full balanced a few months ago, now I have a different view. The only reason you need balanced cables is for big concert venues and recording studios and when running long lengths of cables. Glenn would be able to comment in much greater technical detail on this but the Woo amps are designed as single ended amps, they have to be as they are valve and that is the natural state for valves. Glenn please feel free to educate us further. But to make the say the 234's or WA5's (any Woo amps) fully balanced you would need additional circuitry such as balanced input and output transformers. This would no doubt compromise the purity of the signal. In other words there is no point as there is nothing to be gained. I became aware of this when I was talking to the designer of the Nagra HD DAC, Nagra offer an expensive option which is a couple of fully balanced output transformers to replace the standard single ended outputs. They also run a "non balanced" balanced output as well as RCA's. He said the only reason it had balanced outputs on it at all was the marketing department and further that the DAC sounded better used in single ended mode. I had he fully balanced optional board and experimented and he was correct. 
  
 With MSB - I tried running balanced first and it sounded great, I mentioned this to MSB and they laughed and said you realise you are only using about a quarter of the DAC running it balanced into an effective non balanced tube amplifier. Fortunately I had both modules so swapped them over to single ended. Wow - major difference he was spot on and I was having to use pretty crapy cheap Radio Shack RCA cables. When I replaced those with decent cables from Transparent, it was a stunning increase in SQ. Lesson learned. A lot of DAC designers prefer their DAC's run with single ended outputs (RCA). CAD, Chord recommend that wiht their DAVE, Nagra recommend it also. In terms of SQ there is no difference between RCA or XLR, unless you have a very electrically noisy environment or have ground loop issues where you get hum etc. 
  
 Re the C3G I would be very interested to hear from Glenn as to what is the best driver tube to use within a 300B and 274B environment. I know there are other options. I asked Thomas Mayer (http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au) if he could build me a good headphone amp and if so what kind of cost? The answer was yes and if I wanted the ultimate (Silver wound transformers etc) he could offer solutions, expensive ones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is an extract from his email which is interesting as I had sent him pics of the inside of the 234's. 
 
*" I usually try to keep chassis cost at a minimum and rather spend for top quality parts. For example I avoid electrolytic caps as can be seen everywhere in the photos you sent. Quality of caps, power supply and transformers far outweigh the sound impact of just the tubes. Also the driver tube has a significant importance. I can offer directly heated triodes also in the driver which are far superior sounding.*
  
*It is difficult to proceed without an idea for the budget. I have built headphone amps for 4000 Euros and can offer solutions up to 75.000,- Euros if all transformers shall be silver wound on finemet cores. Fully transformer coupled and all DHT triode throughout. "*
  
 Hopefully Glenn can comment on this, I am happy to send him photos of the 234's. I would be very interested in an other professionals view's. Thomas Mayer is known for his exceptional work and pricing  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Lastly - removing the speaker terminals doesn't gain you much space, but it does mean the transformer can be tailored especially for Headphones, again I am not an expert but I understand that a Valve amps transformer (s) are one of the main contributors to its sound.
  
 Both Fririrce0003 (Matt) and I have now played around with the Viva Egoists, Matt more so than me as its in Melbourne, apart from the thing getting nuclear hot, so hot in fact that you felt like your fingers were getting burn't touching the volume control and chassis, its sonic performance was average and in his opinion a WA5 with good tubes sounded better. The Viva's are not really competition, the smaller one running 2A3's would sound better.
  
 Hope that helps at least until someone else with more knowledge than me can join in the conversation.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Dono,
> 
> Thanks for the kind comments. I would have agreed about your comments re RCA inputs vs full balanced a few months ago, now I have a different view. The only reason you need balanced cables is for big concert venues and recording studios and when running long lengths of cables. Glenn would be able to comment in much greater technical detail on this but the Woo amps are designed as single ended amps, they have to be as they are valve and that is the natural state for valves. Glenn please feel free to educate us further. But to make the say the 234's or WA5's (any Woo amps) fully balanced you would need additional circuitry such as balanced input and output transformers. This would no doubt compromise the purity of the signal. In other words there is no point as there is nothing to be gained. I became aware of this when I was talking to the designer of the Nagra HD DAC, Nagra offer an expensive option which is a couple of fully balanced output transformers to replace the standard single ended outputs. They also run a "non balanced" balanced output as well as RCA's. He said the only reason it had balanced outputs on it at all was the marketing department and further that the DAC sounded better used in single ended mode. I had he fully balanced optional board and experimented and he was correct.
> 
> ...




Okay. Thank you. 

Some very interesting information. Very interesting about single ended connection. I was just online today looking for some balanced cables for my WA22. I have tried single end v's balanced in the WA22 before. I couldn't pick a difference. So with the explanation above I don't think I will bother with balanced.

Interesting comments about the caps in the WA234. I've had my suspicions about some Woo products for a while. They are and perform mostly very well. However I have wondered if they are all about the outside case, looks and marketing rather than achieving the best sound from the best or near best components. Products like the WA7 fuels my suspicions.

It will be fantastic if a WA234S (Super) gets developed. Purely for HP's and nothing else. With upgraded caps, transformer and sockets. Fingers crossed.
If or when it gets developed would you likely purchase?


----------



## Badas

In other news. I thought I would try all big bottle tubes.
TAK274B, Tung-Sol 6C8G's and Tung-Sol 6AS7G.

Not a terrible sound however not my favorite. The power tubes are letting the sound a little. The Tung-Sol 6AS7G is a very lush holographic tube and I thought it would be fun with the new DAC. However it is a tad leaner compared to my go to tube the GE6AS7GA. The GE is fuller. I guess I like fuller rather than lush/holographic. GE's will go back in tomorrow.

I thought it looked nice tho.


----------



## Badas

Simon,

Have you thought about having someone pull apart the WA234 and then rebuild it with higher grade components? Sorting out things like the volume control. Bypass the speaker outputs. Upgrade the caps, socket connection and possibly the transformers. 

It might be a better option.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Okay. Thank you.
> 
> Some very interesting information. Very interesting about single ended connection. I was just online today looking for some balanced cables for my WA22. I have tried single end v's balanced in the WA22 before. I couldn't pick a difference. So with the explanation above I don't think I will bother with balanced.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you have any balanced cables? or can you borrow some? if so compare those to some RCA's, match levels etc, you should hear an improvement across the board using the RCA's and you will know for future reference. Do you have any hum issues, I seem to recall you did some ago? If you were using balanced cables they could be the source of the problem.
  
 I love the industrial design of the 234's, and yes as I have told Jack if he builds it and shoots for improvements across the board then I will commit to it. I imagine he would end up getting a few new customers as well. Plus he would be guaranteed press coverage. Surely development of flagship products leads to innovations that trickle down the line.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Simon,
> 
> Have you thought about having someone pull apart the WA234 and then rebuild it with higher grade components? Sorting out things like the volume control. Bypass the speaker outputs. Upgrade the caps, socket connection and possibly the transformers.
> 
> It might be a better option.


 

 Funny you should mention that.......


----------



## isquirrel

In all seriousness, I am hoping that Jack Wu sees the value, there is no doubt he could do it, a number of tube manufacturers have referred to him as being a fine well respected engineer.


----------



## Contrails

> Have you thought about having someone pull apart the WA234 and then rebuild it with higher grade components? Sorting out things like the volume control. Bypass the speaker outputs. Upgrade the caps, socket connection and possibly the transformers.
> 
> It might be a better option


 
  
 $16,000 Amp and you need to upgrade it? What exactly is the $16000 for then? 
  
 I know manufacturing something in America is more expensive and especially if it's from a boutique name but at that price and when it's the TOTL model...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I just had a custom Cricket Bat made here in New Zealand.  The bat was hand made by a boutique manufacturer (Laver & Wood) to my exact specs and my style of play.  Guess what? If I wasn't happy with the bat when I received it, I could return it and they would either send me a new bat or fine tune the existing one so that the final bat did meet my expectations.  I was very happy with the bat when I got it so didn't have to return it.  I honestly wish the Audio world was like this.


----------



## TonyNewman

contrails said:


> $16,000 Amp and you need to upgrade it? What exactly is the $16000 for then?


 
  
 A rather good question. At that price point why not the very best available components throughout? Lundahl transformers, Duelund caps ... etc.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Here was one of my shipments. Look at that condition. As if they just came off the shelf.
> 
> Best tube purchase I have done.


 

 Errr.. ummm... would you _really_ miss 2 of those?


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> Simon,
> 
> I don't know if you've looked into HQ Player (signalyst.com), but I've been impressed with the sound out Roon, especially after trying the poly-sinc filter variants. Ear-opening for me.
> 
> And, it's an inexpensive setup to get started: Mac Mini (RoonServer) + HQ Player Desktop ($149.00 US) --> Ethernet (I actually run a wireless bridge - Airport Express - to isolate) --> Cubox-i4Pro (solid-run.com - $139 US) + iFi Audio iPower 5v ($49.00 US) + HQ Player's Network Audio Adapter (NAA) SD card boot image (free) --> optical out to DAC (also supports USB, but I like the optical and it's flawless up to 192/24).


 
 Yes I have, its not something I would use with the MSB, they do not oversample with this DAC, they used to and to some extent were the pioneers of it. HQ Players performance is highly DAC or Server dependant. How do you find the user interface? I struggled with it. In any case unfortunately I am unable to run Roon with the Aurender, they have been saying for a while that as soon as Roon releases Roon Speakers, which is effectively allowing devices to become end points, then they will allow the use of it. Frankly I can't understand why more Music Server companies don't use Roon. A lot of them run a lightweight build of Linux, but I think I am correct in saying that Roon now runs on Linux for OEM's. A friend has just finished a project getting the Roon endpoint SDK onto a Network Renderer - like the Sonic Orbiter by Rendu. 
  
 If companies building Music Servers ran Roon they would save a fortune on Software Dev. I heard Aurender spent about a mill on theirs and well their app is like a Dinosaur compared to Roon.


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> Errr.. ummm... would you _really_ miss 2 of those?


 

 I would love to try a pair of those ! Do you think they sound better than the 6SN7 TSRP 1940's?


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> I would love to try a pair of those ! Do you think they sound better than the 6SN7 TSRP 1940's?




I bet they would sound the same. Same plates and all. A lot cheaper tho.


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Some very interesting information. Very interesting about single ended connection. I was just online today looking for some balanced cables for my WA22. I have tried single end v's balanced in the WA22 before. I couldn't pick a difference. So with the explanation above I don't think I will bother with.




Just wanted to point out that the older WA22's like mine, that were made before the wiring change of a couple of years ago, only give half the volume when used single ended which is the reason I use mine balanced.


----------



## u2u2

badas said:


> Some very interesting information. Very interesting about single ended connection. I was just online today looking for some balanced cables for my WA22. I have tried single end v's balanced in the WA22 before. I couldn't pick a difference. So with the explanation above I don't think I will bother with balanced.


 
  
 There is an older thread that dissects the issues surrounding the WA22 and whether it is a fully balanced amp. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634551/woo-wa22-balanced-vs-unbalanced-input/45
  
 It is inferred at best the result you found between SE and balanced cable output for the newest version of the amp. No direct answer based on user experience. I have been on the fence about buying a good balanced cable for my HD800 phones. I will now put that decision aside with confidence and direct the funds towards tubes. Thanks for posting about your many WA22 findings.
  
 Edit as further along in this thread Badas single ended connection was not to the headphones but was rca cables for input... Still don't know if balanced headphones cables are of any possible benefit for output on the newer WA22... Link to more sensible WA22 discussion added.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Yes I have, its not something I would use with the MSB, they do not oversample with this DAC, they used to and to some extent were the pioneers of it. *HQ Players performance is highly DAC or Server dependant.* *How do you find the user interface?* I struggled with it. In any case unfortunately I am unable to run Roon with the Aurender, they have been saying for a while that as soon as Roon releases Roon Speakers, which is effectively allowing devices to become end points, then they will allow the use of it. *Frankly I can't understand why more Music Server companies don't use Roon*. A lot of them run a lightweight build of Linux, but I think I am correct in saying that Roon now runs on Linux for OEM's. A friend has just finished a project getting the Roon endpoint SDK onto a Network Renderer - like the Sonic Orbiter by Rendu.
> 
> If companies building Music Servers ran Roon they would save a fortune on Software Dev. I heard* Aurender spent about a mill on theirs and well their app is like a Dinosaur* compared to Roon.


 
  
 True... with TOTL DACs, like you are running, the benefit is suspect with HQP. I am using it with a cheap Schiit Modi 2 Uber and it's night-and day.
  
 Their UI is "hall of shame" material, to be sure, and I would't bother without the Roon tie-in.
  
 I think OEMs are worried about losing control of their platform and being at the mercy of a third-party developer. I've been there, professionally speaking, and I feel their pain. But the days of building your own eco-system for audio H/W are long gone and UPnP/DLNA has been (mostly) a failure. Companies like Aurender and Bryston are slow to understand and they will pay for it with lost market share.
 Anyway, incredible system you are building, as always!


----------



## leftside

isquirrel said:


> I love the industrial design of the 234's, and yes as I have told Jack if he builds it and shoots for improvements across the board then I will commit to it. I imagine he would end up getting a few new customers as well. Plus he would be guaranteed press coverage. Surely development of flagship products leads to innovations that trickle down the line.


 
 At $16k for the existing 234 there should be no improvements possible. It should already have the absolute best components. Very sad reflection on Woo Audio if this is not already the case.


----------



## Fririce0003

leftside said:


> At $16k for the existing 234 there should be no improvements possible. It should already have the absolute best components. Very sad reflection on Woo Audio if this is not already the case.




 To be honest, owning the 234's and having spent that money on them, I'm actually happy that Jack is still looking at ways to improve and upgrade them in terms of sound quality. It means that the company, and industry, are still progressing rather than stagnating.
 Also with flagship products it's not just manufacturing and parts that they're covering with the cost. It research, design and testing. Headphone amps are still a relatively niche market and they have to recuperate their costs, the 234's weren't made to sell the same numbers as something like the WA6. Being a flagship product they also don't benefit from trickle down technology as they're what is providing that trickle down reference. 
 There would be a fair bit involved in improving upon a flagship product such as the 234; corrispondence with existing owners, testing out design ideas, manufacturing prototypes, sourcing components and everything in between. Then there's also custom components, it wouldn't be cheap to custom build output transformers, experimenting with different materials and configurations. And that's without accounting for the time spent on evaluating the differences and prospective improvements. 
 Plus I'm sure there would've still wen some design compromises on the 234's, such as the driver tubes, the C3G may be more electrically suited to the 300B and 274B, but tube variants and availability aren't near that of the 6SN7. I'm sure Jack brought that into consideration on the 234, after all a lot of people buy tube amps to tube roll. 
 If Jack did end up releasing a "Super" 234, I'd be more than happy to jump on the upgrade should there be improvements across the board and my funds allow. 
 But that's all just my 2¢, I've always had an appreciation for good engineering and pushing the envelope.


----------



## leftside

Can't argue with wanting to improve as newer technologies/methods become available. Perhaps I should rephrase and say "At $16k for the existing 234 there should be no (known) improvements possible. It should already have the absolute best components (known today)"


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Do you have any balanced cables? or can you borrow some? if so compare those to some RCA's, match levels etc, you should hear an improvement across the board using the RCA's and you will know for future reference. Do you have any hum issues, I seem to recall you did some ago? If you were using balanced cables they could be the source of the problem.


 
  
 Yeah I have balanced cables. At the moment I have them going from the Vega to my SS amp (Oppo HA-1). RCA from Vega to the Woo. Before I did this I ran both to the Woo and tested (I can just toggle a switch at the back of the WA22 to change inputs). They were both at the same volume level. I couldn't hear an advantage or disadvantage in either. To my ears they were 100% the same. I started listening to RCA and listened for faults (especially in treble harshness *cough* Adel *cough* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I would pick something up and get excited expecting not to hear it in balanced. Balanced would do the same. I just couldn't hear a difference. So in the end I thought my SS amp would benefit more from balanced so I gave it the signal and kept the Woo on RCA. Seems like I made the right choice.
  


daverich4 said:


> Just wanted to point out that the older WA22's like mine, that were made before the wiring change of a couple of years ago, only give half the volume when used single ended which is the reason I use mine balanced.


 
  
 Are you talking about the HP output or the signal input? So let me get this right. If using the RCA input on a older WA22 it is quieter? I can understand you using balanced then.
  
 I'm using RCA input then balanced to my HP's. I just like the balanced HP connection better than single ended. It feels better connected.


----------



## Stereolab42

isquirrel said:


> Re the C3G I would be very interested to hear from Glenn as to what is the best driver tube to use within a 300B and 274B environment. I know there are other options. I asked Thomas Mayer (http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au) if he could build me a good headphone amp and if so what kind of cost? The answer was yes and if I wanted the ultimate (Silver wound transformers etc) he could offer solutions, expensive ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Umm, the Audio Note amps which cost north of $100k also use electrolytic caps:
  
 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0810/audio_note_uk_ongaku.htm
  
 "Being of the Level 5 family, the Ongaku also uses Audio Note 2 watt Tantalum resistors, Black Gate electrolytics, in-house designed and made Audio Note 99.99% pure silver wired double AN-Perma 50 nickel C-core output transformer, SHiB double C-core mains transformer and Audio Note's handmade 23 position attenuator."
  
 The Black Gate caps are also used in the upgraded WA5 internals (at least as of when mine was built) and are universally considered outstanding for SQ (and aren't even made anymore). I hope nobody is jumping to conclusions about what people are saying about their competitors... and I'm sure Glenn isn't jumping in because he's professional enough not to comment negatively/positively about the internals of a competing amp.


----------



## Porteroso

reeltime said:


> Anyone have a source for 6F8G adapters to 6SN7?  I bought a pair off eBay, but there's a lot of occasional chatter in the left channel.  It could be the tube, I don't have a 2nd pair, but eliminating the adapter as a noise source is a lot cheaper than picking up another pair of VT-99s.
> 
> Thanks


 
 This is 3 days late, but it is probably the tube. Most of my 6F8Gs have some noise, at least in one or the other. Many started with noise in both ears. Cleaning the pins eliminates most of the noise, but some of it is just how it is seated. I have both an ebay and glenn set of 6F8G-->6SN7 adapters, and while the Glenns look better and are constructed with better everything, there is no difference in sound, and even functionality. I really doubt that the adapter would be producing noise, when the dirtiness of so many of these tubes' pins has haunted many of us.


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> This is 3 days late, but it is probably the tube. Most of my 6F8Gs have some noise, at least in one or the other. Many started with noise in both ears. Cleaning the pins eliminates most of the noise, but some of it is just how it is seated. I have both an ebay and glenn set of 6F8G-->6SN7 adapters, and while the Glenns look better and are constructed with better everything, there is no difference in sound, and even functionality. I really doubt that the adapter would be producing noise, *when the dirtiness of so many of these tubes' pins has haunted many of us.*


 
 Good post. Good Point.
  
 Tube pins being clean is soooooooooo damn important. If I could tell a new tube amp owner just one bloody thing it would be *CLEAN EVERY TUBE PIN BEFORE INSTALLING. *Even if they look clean.
  
 Buy some DeOxit. The stuff is really valuable.
  
 It is amazing how much gunk comes off pins that look clean. That gunk makes it's way into the amp sockets eventually. So even if you remove the noisy tube and put in a clean one the sockets become dirty. I cleaned my sockets a while back it was amazing the crap that came out of them. I make sure every tube pin is rubbed with DeOxit before installing.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITKit-Industrial-Survival-pouch-1-5in/dp/B004GE15JG/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1459987266&sr=8-21&keywords=Deoxit
  
 http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-Laboratories-DeoxIT-Sampler-Kit/dp/B0018KNHRY/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1459987306&sr=8-23&keywords=Deoxit
  
 http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITLiquid-squeeze-tube-100%25-solution/dp/B0015A5AAY/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1459987342&sr=8-7&keywords=Deoxit


----------



## leftside

Yes indeed. Deoxit for cleaning and then Deoxit gold for a little conditioning for every tube pin before it goes into the socket. I leave mine overnight to settle/dry. Just be careful how you hold the tube. Very easy to rub off the lettering if it is on the glass....


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Yes indeed. Deoxit for cleaning and then Deoxit gold for a little conditioning for every tube pin before it goes into the socket. I leave mine overnight to settle/dry. Just be careful how you hold the tube. Very easy to rub off the lettering if it is on the glass....


 
  
 I was told that DeOxit gold was only for gold pins. Just a conditioner. For silver pins you are suppose to only use the standard DeOxit. No conditioner required.


----------



## leftside

You might be right, but this is what I read here. Also makes it slightly easier to insert and remove the tubes.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/365765/which-craig-deoxit-for-cleaning-tube-pins
  
 I can't believe the amount of gunk that came off some of my tube pins (that looked clean).


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> You might be right, but this is what I read here. Also makes it slightly easier to insert and remove the tubes.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/365765/which-craig-deoxit-for-cleaning-tube-pins
> 
> I can't believe the amount of gunk that came off some of my tube pins (that looked clean).


 
  
 I don't think either of us is right or wrong. Or maybe both of us a wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I use to do exactly what you said. Normal first. Gold to coat.
  
 Then I read the instructions on Gold. Somewhere in the blurb it said to use on gold connections only. Gold pins and RCA connections.
  
 It also says to do a clean every year. I don't really think that is needed. Once they are clean and installed they should be okay. They warn you can get corrosion over a year. Think about it our pins get hot. For corrosion you need dirt and water. If they go in clean there is no dirt. If the pins get hot any moisture would evaporate. No dirt and no moisture means no corrosion. So I'm not doing mine every year.
  
 Yeah gunk. It is amazing how you can have really shiny looking pins. Then I get a cotton bud (I don't know what you call them overseas), put DeOxit on the bud and then rub/wipe. The bud turns from white to black with gunk.


----------



## phase0

As a newb I can re-emphasize the great advice to get deoxit! I few weeks back I was complaining about noisy tubes and also noticing how dirty some pins were. I tried rubbing alcohol and that did help but didn't fix it. Now that I got deoxit like others said it's amazing how much gunk it gets off the pins. Once I realized how dirty these tubes are I'm now cleaning all the tubes I'm getting before they get inserted.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I don't think either of us is right or wrong. Or maybe both of us a wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In the States, they are called cotton balls!  Ha Ha.  Used to use 600 grit wet sandpaper to clean contacts with isopropyl alcohol.  This stuff looks lots easier!


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> *In the States, they are called cotton balls!*  Ha Ha.  Used to use 600 grit wet sandpaper to clean contacts with isopropyl alcohol.  This stuff looks lots easier!


 





 I knew you guys would have another word for it. I thought bud would get a few laughs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is a bit like soft drink / fizzy drink v's pop. Car parks v's parking lot. Motorway v's freeway.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I knew you guys would have another word for it. I thought bud would get a few laughs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yup, you threw out the bait and got a bite on that old fishing pole.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is always interesting to learn local jargon. And yeah, elected to take the high road.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ...
> 
> Buy some DeOxit. The stuff is really valuable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have starting doing this with interconnects, as well. Surprised at the difference it makes on RCA connectors that look clean.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> I knew you guys would have another word for it. I thought bud would get a few laughs.
> 
> It is a bit like soft drink / fizzy drink v's pop. Car parks v's parking lot. Motorway v's freeway.



No. There's cotton balls and there's cotton buds. 

The buds are on the sticks.


----------



## TonyNewman

thecrow said:


> No. There's cotton balls and there's cotton buds.
> 
> The buds are on the sticks.


 
  
 Deoxit red + gold + cotton buds - all the equipment needed for a tube cleaning frenzy.


----------



## isquirrel

leftside said:


> Can't argue with wanting to improve as newer technologies/methods become available. Perhaps I should rephrase and say "At $16k for the existing 234 there should be no (known) improvements possible. It should already have the absolute best components (known today)"


 

 Unless we are commentating from an engineering perspective I don't feel comfortable making statements about the 234's should have the best components etc as thats a subjective view. For a start I don't know what the ultimate Headphone Valve amp would consist of, as others have pointed out the cost is really quite reasonable when compared to 2 channel high end audio valve amps. There are the Audio Note UK amps with prices up in the $200,000 plus range, Lamm Industries there ML 3 (a beautiful sounding 2 channel amp) which goes for $147,000 USD. In fact the list goes on and on. 
  
 Light Harmonic are supposed to be developing a valve amp that is going to be $30,000 USD+ . I agree with Matt's POV, plus I would add, things like the chassis, which is very solid, each channel weighs 33K must have cost a fortune to manufacturer and I highly doubt that Woo would have sold enough 234's to support all their development costs. I fully support further development of what is already a good design. I would hope that this forum in particular as the Woo owners club would encourage Woo to remain as a quality manufacturer of valve amplification and even better if they can stay in front of good old fashioned valve's which we all love and enjoy by using new technologies then I think that's great. The new WA8 is an example of lateral thinking to bring the pleasures of Valve's to a greater and hopefully younger audience.
  
 Its all very well for old guys like me, but its been a very interesting past 35 years that I have been into audio equipment. I can remember when the CD came out and I had a listen to the first Pioneer CD player that John Bamford (HiFI News) had bought round, we were shocked and non of us wanted to admit that it sounded terrible.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Deoxit red + gold + cotton buds - all the equipment needed for a tube cleaning frenzy.


 

 Thank for sending that kit to me Tony, it works a treat. Trick is not to over apply it. Maybe you should post a quick guide on the best way to use it?


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Yeah I have balanced cables. At the moment I have them going from the Vega to my SS amp (Oppo HA-1). RCA from Vega to the Woo. Before I did this I ran both to the Woo and tested (I can just toggle a switch at the back of the WA22 to change inputs). They were both at the same volume level. I couldn't hear an advantage or disadvantage in either. To my ears they were 100% the same. I started listening to RCA and listened for faults (especially in treble harshness *cough* Adel *cough*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Was talking about the signal cables the Interconnects. Unless a SET amp has a fully diffierentially balanced output then you should always use single ended outputs (RCA). Headphone are another matter they are naturally fully balanced and almost always sound better that way. I sometimes plug my headphone with the right (Female plugs) directly into the DAC which is as direct as you can get. This is a major advantage for DAC's that can allow that. Having said that whilst it is defiantly more transparent its not by a huge margin and personally I prefer my sound through valves plus when I get bored I can fiddle around and try different combinations. 
  
 Have you ever tried the Elrog 300B's?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Thank for sending that kit to me Tony, it works a treat. Trick is not to over apply it. Maybe you should post a quick guide on the best way to use it?


 
  
 Can't take credit for that - it was Badas (Dono) that sent you those goodies.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Can't take credit for that - it was Badas (Dono) that sent you those goodies.


 

 Opps, haha, well thanks to Dono then. Are you using C3G's now?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Opps, haha, well thanks to Dono then. Are you using C3G's now?


 
  
 I can answer that one - the WA22 doesn't feel the love for the C3Gs. At least, nobody has developed an adapter for that purpose.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> "Their UI is "hall of shame" material, to be sure, and I would't bother without the Roon tie-in."


 
  
 Classic statement Ken, their UI (if you can call it that) is so user unfriendly that I gave up. Aurender were telling people at this years CES that they had got Roon running but it did not sound as good as their software. Could have seen that one coming, it would be nice if at least they gave users the choice. I can use Roon if I cannel it through Air Play but then I'm limited to 16/44. Glad you rank Roon, for the 1st time I noticed my wife sitting on the couch enjoying exploring music genres etc and it certainly expanded her (& mine) range of music.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> I can answer that one - the WA22 doesn't feel the love for the C3Gs. At least, nobody has developed an adapter for that purpose.


 

 This is getting confusing, I mean't you Tony, what are you using now?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> This is getting confusing, I mean't you Tony, what are you using now?


 
  
 Ah - my bad - yes. Once my Glenn 300B repair is completed I will be back to PY500 / C3G / TA300B. Sold the WA5. Kept the WA6 for fun - it's a nice little unit to play about with.


----------



## isquirrel

Thanks, did you end up with a preference for C3G's?


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Thanks, did you end up with a preference for C3G's?


 
  
 Yep - the extreme transparency went well with the stunning TA300Bs. The PY500s are similar to the C3G - also utterly transparent.
  
 End result was kinda weird - in a good way - a tube amp with greater detail retrieval than many SS units, but also had the tube loveliness of the TA300B.


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Are you talking about the HP output or the signal input? So let me get this right. If using the RCA input on a older WA22 it is quieter? I can understand you using balanced then.
> 
> I'm using RCA input then balanced to my HP's. I just like the balanced HP connection better than single ended. It feels better connected.


 
  
 Signal input. Connecting my Dac to the WA22 with RCA cables instead of balanced gives approximately half the volume. I don't remember exactly when that was changed but it's only been a couple of years now. I agree with you on the HP connection. I use Moon Silver Dragon balanced cables with my LCD 3's.


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Classic statement Ken, their UI (if you can call it that) is so user unfriendly that I gave up. *Aurender were telling people at this years CES that they had got Roon running but it did not sound as good as their software. Could have seen that one coming,* it would be nice if at least they gave users the choice. I can use Roon if I cannel it through Air Play but then I'm limited to 16/44. Glad you rank Roon, for the 1st time I noticed my wife sitting on the couch enjoying exploring music genres etc and it certainly expanded her (& mine) range of music.


 
  
 Bryston made exactly the same comment and even pulled their Roon implementation from the beta distribution.


----------



## Torq

My WA5 LE (w/ the parts upgrades) finally arrived.
  
 Right out of the box it sounds wonderful.
  
 I'm surprised at how much warm-up time it needs for the tubes to become completely quiet.  I'm more surprised at how detailed and holographic the thing sounds.  I was not expecting that!  Way too early for a proper write-up, but very happy so far.
  
 Going to be self-indulgent and order a set of tubes that should be a modest sound upgrade and a big "glow" upgrade, before I start really trying to track down the best sounding tubes I can find.


----------



## leftside

Lovely! Looking forward to hearing your further thoughts. I actually really like the little "crackling" noises of tubes warming up - it's like it's coming alive. It's a loud humming noise in the headphones that I can't tolerate (and luckily I've only encountered very few tubes that have caused this).
  
 Maybe I'll come and visit sometime with the WA22 and we can do a comparison  Or maybe not. Could end up being an expensive trip to Seattle for me


----------



## Torq

leftside said:


> Lovely! Looking forward to hearing your further thoughts. I actually really like the little "crackling" noises of tubes warming up - it's like it's coming alive. It's a loud humming noise in the headphones that I can't tolerate (and luckily I've only encountered very few tubes that have caused this).
> 
> Maybe I'll come and visit sometime with the WA22 and we can do a comparison  Or maybe not. Could end up being an expensive trip to Seattle for me


 

 Happily it's just the crackling ... no hum!  At first I thought it was EMI/RFI, since it took longer than I expected to go away.  Wiith the amp set on high-impedance it's inaudible much faster.
  
 Funny how trips of that nature tend to wind up putting big dents in one's wallet!  I'm always game to have little get-togethers when I'm around though, so please do check in if you're ever going to be in the area!
  
 I very nearly went for the WA22 (in black) myself ... such a gorgeous amp ... and then I managed to "incrementalize" myself into the WA5 LE.  Came down to 300Bs or having a fully-balanced amp.  Since I have the Ragnarok already, I went for the 300Bs.


----------



## ken6217

I just received my tracking number and I will have my WA5-LE tomorrow.  Now I just have to smuggle it in the house before the wife see it.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> *Signal input. Connecting my Dac to the WA22 with RCA cables instead of balanced gives approximately half the volume.* I don't remember exactly when that was changed but it's only been a couple of years now. I agree with you on the HP connection. I use Moon Silver Dragon balanced cables with my LCD 3's.


 
  
 That would be annoying. On my WA22 they are now identical volume level. So I can just toggle the switch at the back to compare sound quality. My ears couldn't tell a difference.


----------



## Badas

torq said:


> My WA5 LE (w/ the parts upgrades) finally arrived.
> 
> Right out of the box it sounds wonderful.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats. I notice those pops and crackle sounds disappear as tubes get aged. When warming up my tubes now none of them do it. They all use to do it when new. I have about 500 hours on my tubes at the moment.


ken6217 said:


> I just received my tracking number and I will have my WA5-LE tomorrow.  Now I just have to smuggle it in the house before the wife see it.


 
  
 and another WA5 owner. Congrats.
  
 Nice to see more tube amp owners.


----------



## leftside

ken6217 said:


> I just received my tracking number and I will have my WA5-LE tomorrow.  Now I just have to smuggle it in the house before the wife see it.


 

 Another one! Great. Also looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Another one! Great. Also looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


 

 Are you having WA5 envy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I sometimes do. Then I realize I could never fit the thing on my audio rack. So it is a no go.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Are you having WA5 envy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not envy, but I've been upgrading my hifi system(s) on a regular basis the last 25 years, so I know there's always something else... I'm sure I could find room for a WA5


----------



## HiFiGuy528

daverich4 said:


> Signal input. Connecting my Dac to the WA22 with RCA cables instead of balanced gives approximately half the volume. I don't remember exactly when that was changed but it's only been a couple of years now. I agree with you on the HP connection. I use Moon Silver Dragon balanced cables with my LCD 3's.


 
  
 Perhaps your DAC's RCA output is lower than the XLR? Check the DAC's output adjustment if it is variable. 
  
 Quote:


ken6217 said:


> I just received my tracking number and I will have my WA5-LE tomorrow.  Now I just have to smuggle it in the house before the wife see it.


 
  
 Be sure to share some pics with us.


----------



## ken6217

Will take some pics and post them. I'm taking off work in honor of the new amp!


----------



## Porteroso

ken6217 said:


> Will take some pics and post them. I'm taking off work in honor of the new amp!


 
 It can be really hard not to. Congrats on the amp.
  
 I would love a WA5 one day, maybe someone will sell me a used one for about a hundred bucks. Until then, the WA6 is a pretty great amp.


----------



## abvolt

ken6217 said:


> I just received my tracking number and I will have my WA5-LE tomorrow.  Now I just have to smuggle it in the house before the wife see it.


 
 Awesome dude congrats be sure to post some pics..


----------



## thecrow

ken6217 said:


> I just received my tracking number and I will have my WA5-LE tomorrow.  Now I just have to smuggle it in the house before the wife see it.


 

 if you don't manage to get it through you might be stuck with just picking up (to sneak in) the mojo dac/amp
  
 i'm sure many others have


----------



## ken6217

thecrow said:


> if you don't manage to get it through you might be stuck with just picking up (to sneak in) the mojo dac/amp
> 
> i'm sure many others have


 

 She's working. Got it made.


----------



## abvolt

funny not sure the cord with be as satisfying as the woo wa5 le..Enjoy


----------



## ken6217

abvolt said:


> funny not sure the cord with be as satisfying as the woo wa5 le..Enjoy


 

 I have my Meitner MA-1 just waiting for it to show up.


----------



## ken6217

After having solid state amps all of my life and now getting into tube gear, it seems that learning about tubes (types, vintages, brands, etc) is almost like learning about wines as an analogy.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> After having solid state amps all of my life and now getting into tube gear, it seems that learning about tubes (types, vintages, brands, etc) is almost like learning about wines as an analogy.


 
  
 It can get like that. Best thing is to ask. Get help from other members. We all had to learn.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> It can be really hard not to. Congrats on the amp.
> 
> I would love a WA5 one day, maybe someone will sell me a used one for about a hundred bucks. Until then, *the WA6 is a pretty great amp.*


 
 +1
 Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Porteroso

badas said:


> ken6217 said:
> 
> 
> > After having solid state amps all of my life and now getting into tube gear, it seems that learning about tubes (types, vintages, brands, etc) is almost like learning about wines as an analogy.
> ...


 
 Yeah, basically the only way any of us know anything is because of hearsay. I've found some things to be true that people write, some things to not be true. Sometimes I think I'm right about a given tube though, and read someone else's impressions of it, and realize they have the right of things more than me.
  
 About tubes, dubstepgirl's thread is pretty much great. And it's terrible, because many tubes at the top of her list have skyrocketed in price since she posted all of it. About drivers, everyone pretty much agrees as far as 6SN7 and the 6F8G/6C8G variants go (cheapest way to stock up on tubes  is get 6F8G adapters, and stock up on TS 6F8G/6C8G, and NU 6C8G), so that helps you out quite a bit. About 300B, just go with stock until you can get the takatsukis, and don't look back. Of course I've never heard a 300B amp, so feel free to not believe me, but I've read so much about the 300Bs that I feel I know them almost as well as anyone who has them. I really don't see a reason to buy a WA5 unless you will put a high end 300B in there. Elrogs seem to have a pretty dismal failure rate, and nobody really says they're better than Taks, just different. Taks will last, and they are as good as it gets. The others are just gradual upgrades, and for a poor person like me, you just can't waste money on the middle stuff. Go big, or go home. (I go home a lot)
  
 Tubes are one big grand adventure. I remember first listening to the NU 6F8G, before most people here really knew about it. I had read on some obscure site that it was up there with the best of the 6SN7s, and I wanted to see. In the 6SN7 thread, 2 guys had heard it, and dismissed it as inferior to the 6SN7, or at least the TS rp. Turns out it was pretty much gold. I got my first 2 pairs of TS rp 6F8G for 30 a pair. Now, go check ebay. Flat plate pairs are selling for over 200. For some reason, I never stocked up on the 6F8G, I just have like 5 good pairs, total. Now it's too late, too expensive. But then tony/badas discovered that 6C8G was the same quality, but higher gain. I've snagged 2 pairs of NU so far, still looking for the TS. Anyways, end of nostalgia posting. Tubes really are fun. Solid state has a lot to be said for it, sure. And it's certainly easier, and less fickle. But when you really find the right set of tubes, when it really hits the sweet spot, it's hard to leave it.


----------



## abvolt

Oh yeah really good post..


----------



## Badas

Excellent post. Bravo.


----------



## ken6217

porteroso said:


> Yeah, basically the only way any of us know anything is because of hearsay. I've found some things to be true that people write, some things to not be true. Sometimes I think I'm right about a given tube though, and read someone else's impressions of it, and realize they have the right of things more than me.
> 
> About tubes, dubstepgirl's thread is pretty much great. And it's terrible, because many tubes at the top of her list have skyrocketed in price since she posted all of it. About drivers, everyone pretty much agrees as far as 6SN7 and the 6F8G/6C8G variants go (cheapest way to stock up on tubes  is get 6F8G adapters, and stock up on TS 6F8G/6C8G, and NU 6C8G), so that helps you out quite a bit. About 300B, just go with stock until you can get the takatsukis, and don't look back. Of course I've never heard a 300B amp, so feel free to not believe me, but I've read so much about the 300Bs that I feel I know them almost as well as anyone who has them. I really don't see a reason to buy a WA5 unless you will put a high end 300B in there. Elrogs seem to have a pretty dismal failure rate, and nobody really says they're better than Taks, just different. Taks will last, and they are as good as it gets. The others are just gradual upgrades, and for a poor person like me, you just can't waste money on the middle stuff. Go big, or go home. (I go home a lot)
> 
> Tubes are one big grand adventure. I remember first listening to the NU 6F8G, before most people here really knew about it. I had read on some obscure site that it was up there with the best of the 6SN7s, and I wanted to see. In the 6SN7 thread, 2 guys had heard it, and dismissed it as inferior to the 6SN7, or at least the TS rp. Turns out it was pretty much gold. I got my first 2 pairs of TS rp 6F8G for 30 a pair. Now, go check ebay. Flat plate pairs are selling for over 200. For some reason, I never stocked up on the 6F8G, I just have like 5 good pairs, total. Now it's too late, too expensive. But then tony/badas discovered that 6C8G was the same quality, but higher gain. I've snagged 2 pairs of NU so far, still looking for the TS. Anyways, end of nostalgia posting. Tubes really are fun. Solid state has a lot to be said for it, sure. And it's certainly easier, and less fickle. But when you really find the right set of tubes, when it really hits the sweet spot, it's hard to leave it.


 

 Yes. Excellent post! Lots of information. 
  
 I did order the Tak 300B and will have it at the end of the month. So, I don't eat this month. As long as I pay the electricity bill I can still listen. 
  
 I made a few purchases on Ebay for a few different drivers and pair of rectifier tubes based on thereat information in this thread. I'll start there and take a lot of time and listen. Unfortunately I can't break in this amp as I do with my solid state equipment.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Congrats on the new amps folks!
  




 Nice post @Porteroso!


----------



## Bitten by Bug

thecrow said:


> No. There's cotton balls and there's cotton buds.
> 
> The buds are on the sticks.


 
 Ohhh - these are known as Q-tips in the States. Here is pix of each.


----------



## phase0

Congratulations to the new WA5 owners. If I could do it all over again I think I should have upgraded the tubes sooner. I haven't regretted the EML 300B. I do want to get the Tak at some point but didn't feel like right now is the right time (I was trying to not go completely off the deep end which is the same reason I delayed tube shopping after I received my WA5). I haven't had any luck finding TSRP of the 6x8G variety so I'm sticking with NU. I suppose the consolation is that some seem to prefer the other alternatives like C3G. Looking forward to your impressions as you settle in.
  
 I am intrigued with the idea of Woo continuing to try and improve on the WA234. I heard the JPS labs setup and it was nice. I think someone estimated it was $30k+ of components. I'd agree with things I read that suggested it's about 10% better than the WA5. I don't know if you can really grade it like that but I'd say it was a little better than what I have for a lot more money. How much better could a $100k amp get? or a $200k amp? Since these things exist there must be a market for them. The multi-$100k systems I heard at the audio show I went to were fun but I can't imagine spending that big on a system. I guess that's why I ended up on headphones. I can get to high end here at least  I'm pretty happy with the results.


----------



## nwavesailor

Actually they are called cotton swabs but the biggest most established brand is_ 'Q-Tips' ,_so a lot of folks call them Q-Tips.
  
 I'm old enough to remember tissues (or facial tissues) being called_ 'Kleenex'_ again for the most established brand.
  
 Paper copies were called a '_Xerox'_


----------



## thecrow

porteroso said:


> Yeah, basically the only way any of us know anything is because of hearsay. I've found some things to be true that people write, some things to not be true. Sometimes I think I'm right about a given tube though, and read someone else's impressions of it, and realize they have the right of things more than me.



And usually if there's generally a consensus here it's pretty much on the mark and my experience shows to not ignore it

I always wonder what the heck did we do before the Internet. Sieve through a whole lot of magazines looking for that one relevant article. 


What we do need is a weekly tv show or 24 hour channel (iin full surround sound) discussing and listening to tubes. 
You have my permission to pick up that idea and run with it


----------



## Porteroso

thecrow said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, basically the only way any of us know anything is because of hearsay. I've found some things to be true that people write, some things to not be true. Sometimes I think I'm right about a given tube though, and read someone else's impressions of it, and realize they have the right of things more than me.
> ...


 
 This thread though, is relatively reasonable. There are other threads where bandwagons are in full force. I agree, in this thread, people are pretty reasonable. I don't always agree with people, but there will always be side issues. The big issues we usually agree on. I think that as long as people refuse to take themselves seriously, they're able to contribute in forums such as this. I say this as a violinist. Same thing there. You can ask 100 people their opinions on solo Bach, and 75% will reach a general consensus. Not that anyone thinks anyone's way of playing Bach is right but their own, but you can at least find people who will show you the right way toward finding your way. Same thing here, though the options are a bit (exaggerating) more limited.
  
 More tubes would be nice. Sweet Jesus knows we could use some decent new production.


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> Was talking about the signal cables the Interconnects. Unless a SET amp has a fully diffierentially balanced output then you should always use single ended outputs (RCA). Headphone are another matter they are naturally fully balanced and almost always sound better that way. I sometimes plug my headphone with the right (Female plugs) directly into the DAC which is as direct as you can get. This is a major advantage for DAC's that can allow that. Having said that whilst it is defiantly more transparent its not by a huge margin and personally I prefer my sound through valves plus when I get bored I can fiddle around and try different combinations.
> 
> Have you ever tried the Elrog 300B's?


 

 Son of a Biscuit.  As I was reading this post the right channel Elrog blew.  #@*$%!!!


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> Son of a Biscuit.  As I was reading this post the right channel Elrog blew.  #@*$%!!!




Hopefully no damage to the amp. Are you going to check the caps?


----------



## Khragon

Glenn has been warning us that the WA5 or WA234 for that matter doesn't have regulated filament voltage, and because of the thoriated element there's a possibility of over voltage. I've asked Woo before if Elrog is compatible with their amps and they said yes. The only way to check is to measure the voltage across the filament pins. Maybe you can contact Woo to get a better understanding.


----------



## ken6217

Is the RCA 6c8g or 6F8G any good?


----------



## reeltime

ken6217 said:


> Is the RCA 6c8g or 6F8G any good?


 

 I thought the RCA 6F8G had promise, but one of the tubes was noisy.  When the noise would settle, I liked them very much.  Trying a different pair I found-- hopefully they're quiet.


----------



## ken6217

reeltime said:


> I thought the RCA 6F8G had promise, but one of the tubes was noisy.  When the noise would settle, I liked them very much.  Trying a different pair I found-- hopefully they're quiet.


 

 Just bought a matched pair. I'll see.


----------



## joseph69

Lots of the 6F8G's have noise issues…I was fortunate enough to get a dead quiet set on my second pair.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Lots of the 6F8G's have noise issues…I was fortunate enough to get a dead quiet set on my second pair.




I've got 3 pairs of 6F8g. Two NU and one RCA flat ladder plates. All are 100% quiet. Most of my drive tubes are 6C8G's (over 40 sets) all are quiet. I must have fluked quiet 6F8G's.
I wonder because 6C8G can handle more power and has a higher gain it is more likely to stay quieter than 6F8G? I'm not sure it is just a theory. 

NU6F8g is known to be noisy in the WA5 (6C is dead quiet). I wonder if other 6F8G variants are also suspectable to too much power? Certain tube combinations in certain amps might just make them noisy.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I've got 3 pairs of 6F8g. Two NU and one RCA flat ladder plates. All are 100% quiet. Most of my drive tubes are 6C8G's (over 40 sets) all are quiet. I must have fluked quiet 6F8G's.
> I wonder because 6C8G can handle more power and has a higher gain it is more likely to stay quieter than 6F8G? I'm not sure it is just a theory.
> 
> NU6F8g is known to be noisy in the WA5 (6C is dead quiet). I wonder if other 6F8G variants are also suspectable to too much power? Certain tube combinations in certain amps might just make them noisy.


 
 I'm using them in my WA6 and I only have 2 sets of NU-6F8G's…my first set, one of the tubes is noisy, so I only purchased one more set due to this and got real lucky being the second set is dead quiet. I haven't tried the 6C8G and probably won't until my 6F8G's die being I have enough types of different power/driver tubes to last a long while such as the 6SN7's which I know your not a big fan of.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Hopefully no damage to the amp. Are you going to check the caps?


 

 Everything looks fine.. no smoke or anything dramatic.  Just a slight pop and the tube went dark.  I'm no electrical engineer.  I wouldn't know where to start testing.  I'll try a my cheap 300Bs that came with the amp to check.  If they blow, I don't care.
  
 I'm emailing Elrog to see if they have extended the warranty on the first batch.  There can't be more than 100 hours on these.  I listen in short intervals and not every day.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I'm using them in my WA6 and I only have 2 sets of NU-6F8G's…my first set, one of the tubes is noisy, so I only purchased one more set due to this and got real lucky being the second set is dead quiet. I haven't tried the 6C8G and probably won't until my 6F8G's die being I have enough types of different power/driver tubes to last a long while such as the 6SN7's which I know your not a big fan of.




I think you were just unlucky with the noisy NU6F8G. Tony had a lot. They were noisy in his WA5 however I tested them in my WA22 and they were quiet. So generally they are quiet. That is why I think certain tube combinations make them noisy.

There are 6SN7's that I do like. TSRP for example. Fairly sure I would like that RCA red base military version as well (I haven't tried). I just think you get more for your $$'s wth 6F and 6C.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> Everything looks fine.. no smoke or anything dramatic.  Just a slight pop and the tube went dark.  I'm no electrical engineer.  I wouldn't know where to start testing.  I'll try a my cheap 300Bs that came with the amp to check.  If they blow, I don't care.
> 
> I'm emailing Elrog to see if they have extended the warranty on the first batch.  There can't be more than 100 hours on these.  I listen in short intervals and not every day.




Good news. Sounds like you will be fine then. 

If I was you I wouldn't be putting Elrog back into the amp. This has happen all too often.

I don't know if you have thought about it but the other tubes may have got shock damaged. It may pay to be careful. Get them tested if possible.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I think you were just unlucky with the noisy NU6F8G. Tony had a lot. They were noisy in his WA5 however I tested them in my WA22 and they were quiet. So generally they are quiet. That is why I think certain tube combinations make them noisy.
> 
> There are 6SN7's that I do like. TSRP for example. Fairly sure I would like that RCA red base military version as well (I haven't tried). I just think you get more for your $$'s wth 6F and 6C.


 
 I actually have the a few sets of NOS RCA red base 5692's that are real nice!
 At the time I purchased all of my 6SN7's I wasn't aware of the 6x8G's…you were the one who turned me onto them.


----------



## ken6217

I received the WA5 LE today. Looks like a piece of (Big) art.
  
 How do I upload pictures so that they are visible without clicking a link? Whenever I've done it in the past, I end up with a link that needs to be clicked to view. Thanks.


----------



## Torq

ken6217 said:


> I received the WA5 LE today. Looks like a piece of (Big) art.
> 
> How do I upload pictures so that they are visible without clicking a link? Whenever I've done it in the past, I end up with a link that needs to be clicked to view. Thanks.


 
  
 Congrats!!
  
 Click the "Insert Image" button (the little picture of a pair of mountains with a sun in the sky), hit the "Upload Images" button, choose your image file, and that should insert it right in your post.
  
 When it asks you what size you want, that's just for the inline image - the full-size image you upload can then be accessed by clicking the picture in the post.


----------



## ken6217

Perfect. Thanks.


----------



## ken6217

They really pack these amps well. They could probably off a truck and they wouldn't get damaged.
  
 All my equipment is temporarily in basement until I set it up upstairs.


----------



## Krutsch

ken6217 said:


> ...


 
  
 Nice! Let's see: WA5, check... Meitner DAC, check... Aurender digital player, check... all you need now are some crazy/stupid expensive tubes (Taks, Elrogs) and you are all set.
  
 Very jelly, as my kid would say


----------



## ken6217

krutsch said:


> Nice! Let's see: WA5, check... Meitner DAC, check... Aurender digital player, check... all you need now are some crazy/stupid expensive tubes (Taks, Elrogs) and you are all set.
> 
> Very jelly, as my kid would say


 

 Tak 300's on order. 
  
 Sold my 2 channel and home theater equipment as no room in my new home. My wife had some insane idea the proceeds was going to a kitchen or something.


----------



## ru4music

Nice system!  Too bad you can't insert audio along with your pictures (i.e. "Drum Roll!".)  As others have stated, I would stay away from the Erlog 300b tubes, great sounding tube but there definitely seems to be a run of issues with them in the WA5.


----------



## Badas

Hey. Congrats mate. You must be a happy Chappy. 

Some excellent gear there. You must be happy thinking you are as close to the best you can actually get.


----------



## Badas

I've recieved my set of 6BL7's to try out in my WA22. I'm very pleased with the condition of them. Very clean. Can tell they are fresh. No wear on the pins. I must say they are an odd looking tube.

I'm breaking them in right now. I've had them going for an hour. Good news is they seem quiet in my amp (slight very faint buzz in one channel (to be expected with new tubes)). The gain is impressive. I've only got my volume dial up 4 or 5 steps. I've got some weird thing going on where my low gain is at a higher volume than high gain. Not that it really matters. I've noticed this happens sometimes depending on the tubes used. 

Early sound impressions is very positive. Very holographic and full. Unusual in a single tube. They are either one way or the other. Treble sounds fine. I haven't checked out bass yet.

I think this might be the best power tube in my amp yet. Time will tell. Has anyone tested the flat ladder plate yet? Or compared the 5998 or 421A to these tubes? This must be close to the best. Without spending a fortune.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

nwavesailor said:


> Actually they are called cotton swabs but the biggest most established brand is_ 'Q-Tips' ,_so a lot of folks call them Q-Tips.


 
 Correct. Just like it says on the container just under the Q-Tips!


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Good news. Sounds like you will be fine then.
> 
> If I was you I wouldn't be putting Elrog back into the amp. This has happen all too often.
> 
> I don't know if you have thought about it but the other tubes may have got shock damaged. It may pay to be careful. Get them tested if possible.


 

 I'll go back to Elrog if they replace them for free.  Mine are out of warranty, so it's really at Elrog's discretion.  
  
 Meanwhile, I ordered the Takatsuki 300Bs from Woo, and dug up the ShuGuang 300Bs that came with the amp to test it-- and I was pleasantly surprised to find with my cap upgrades I'd purchased on my WA5LE v2 back in January, Woo actually sent PSVane 300Bs and they sound pretty damn fine.  Good enough to keep me listening until the Taks arrive.  I'm pleased to say, and the PSVanes are actually a bit quieter than the Elrogs, though they don't extend as deep and they're not quite as holographic.  
  
 These will do just fine.


----------



## daverich4

"let’s face it, the best mod that improves musical enjoyment is probably alcohol"
Jason Stoddard, Schiit Audio

I think I have to agree. After more than 40 years of research I've found the most cost effective "tweek" that improves the sound of my system the most is several liberal applications of Lagavulin 16. YMMV


----------



## thecrow

For those tube amp owners with the *hd800 who have (mostly) a non bright set up* who have decided to buy some after market cables, I'd like to hear your impressions of what you tried. 

Many people will argue cables make no, or minimal difference, but those who have tried some what was your impression?

Copper or silver?

I'm not meaning to start the old cable discussion of do they or don't they matter but curious on OPINIONS as I'm considering trying one or two. I'm wondering if the silver might be the better option on a warm/neutral tube amp based sound

Thanks


----------



## ken6217

reeltime said:


> I'll go back to Elrog if they replace them for free.  Mine are out of warranty, so it's really at Elrog's discretion.
> 
> Meanwhile, I ordered the Takatsuki 300Bs from Woo, and dug up the ShuGuang 300Bs that came with the amp to test it-- and I was pleasantly surprised to find with my cap upgrades I'd purchased on my WA5LE v2 back in January, Woo actually sent PSVane 300Bs and they sound pretty damn fine.  Good enough to keep me listening until the Taks arrive.  I'm pleased to say, and the PSVanes are actually a bit quieter than the Elrogs, though they don't extend as deep and they're not quite as holographic.
> 
> These will do just fine.


 
  
 My WA5-LE also came with the PSVane 300B's as well.


----------



## ken6217

daverich4 said:


> "let’s face it, the best mod that improves musical enjoyment is probably alcohol"
> Jason Stoddard, Schiit Audio


 
  
 Well if you're going there, it isn't alcohol.


----------



## ken6217

thecrow said:


> For those tube amp owners with the *hd800 who have (mostly) a non bright set up* who have decided to buy some after market cables, I'd like to hear your impressions of what you tried.
> 
> Many people will argue cables make no, or minimal difference, but those who have tried some what was your impression?
> 
> ...


 
 They say that silver cables are brighter. Isn't the 800 bright sounding already?
  
 To people that say that cables don't make a difference, go to Home Depot to the electrical department and buy zip cord (lamp cord) off a spool. Make 4 pieces and run them from your amp to you speakers. Then compare them to your speaker cables. You will then hear it makes a difference.


----------



## thecrow

ken6217 said:


> They say that silver cables are brighter. Isn't the 800 bright sounding already?



Well that's the thing, with my setup and for me the treble's under control. Wa2 with Metrum hex dac. 

The hd800 is bright as we know but for me I don't need a cable to bring that back. I certainly don't want more prominent highs mind you.


----------



## Khragon

It's all depends on what you think of the HD800 now with your current setup. If you think it's still too bright, buy copper, if too warm, buy silver. Copper will add more substance to the bass and mids, reducing treble a bit, while silver will tighten the spectrum. Of course we're talking about cable here so the magnitude of the changes are very subtle.


----------



## thecrow

khragon said:


> It's all depends on what you think of the HD800 now with your current setup. If you think it's still too bright, buy copper, if too warm, buy silver. Copper will add more substance to the bass and mids, reducing treble a bit, while silver will tighten the spectrum. Of course we're talking about cable here so the magnitude of the changes are very subtle.


Do you have the hd800 with a tube amp and after market cables? If so I'd like to know what you've tried 

It's probably going to be hit and miss but looking for others' experience to get a better idea.


----------



## daverich4

ken6217 said:


> Well if you're going there, it isn't alcohol.


 

 For me, the days when it was something else are long gone.


----------



## ken6217

daverich4 said:


> For me, the days when it was something else are long gone.


 

 Are you sure? It says you are from Denver, NC. Isn't Denver in Colorado? Joking.


----------



## TonyNewman

reeltime said:


> ...Mine are out of warranty, so it's really at Elrog's discretion.
> 
> Meanwhile, I ordered the Takatsuki 300Bs from Woo, ...


 
  
 History would suggest that you are on a tough road with #1 above. A quick internet search will find plenty of folks very disappointed with Elrog's warranty replacement performance (and this is for tubes still _*in *_warranty). LINK
  
 On #2, the Taks are suberb. They need 300+ hours to settle down (some say 500 hours). Be patient with them and expect some ups and downs before the 300 hour mark.


----------



## reeltime

ken6217 said:


> My WA5-LE also came with the PSVane 300B's as well.


 

 Did you do the parts upgrade?  Just curious.  I think the PSVane 300Bs are a much better grade than the ShuGuang 300B.  They actually sound kind of nice-- Almost as good as the EML 300B, maybe a notch below (from memory).  The ShuGuang tubes Woo used to include were unimpressive.
  
 OH, Forgot to mention-- I acquired a pair of 6C8Gs off eBay.  They came dirty and crusty and I thought I was in for a disappointment.  I cleaned them up with alcohol and they're dead quiet.  They're true NOS, and measure the same, but they have different colored printing on the bottom.  Nice tubes.  I'm testing them out but with the shift to PSVane instead of the Elrog there's too much change in the system right now to have a good point of reference.


----------



## ken6217

reeltime said:


> Did you do the parts upgrade?  Just curious.  I think the PSVane 300Bs are a much better grade than the ShuGuang 300B.  They actually sound kind of nice-- Almost as good as the EML 300B, maybe a notch below (from memory).  The ShuGuang tubes Woo used to include were unimpressive.
> 
> OH, Forgot to mention-- I acquired a pair of 6C6Gs off eBay.  They came dirty and crusty and I thought I was in for a disappointment.  I cleaned them up with alcohol and they're dead quiet.  They're true NOS, and measure the same, but they have different colored printing on the bottom.  Nice tubes.  I'm testing them out but with the shift to PSVane instead of the Elrog there's too much change in the system right now to have a good point of reference.


 

 Yes. I did the parts upgrade. I don't know if it would sound any better or not but I would be always wondering if I should have gotten the upgrade.


----------



## daverich4

ken6217 said:


> Are you sure? It says you are from Denver, NC. Isn't Denver in Colorado? Joking.




I'm afraid Denver, NC takes a somewhat different view regarding using recreational herbs than Denver, CO.


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> For those tube amp owners with the *hd800 who have (mostly) a non bright set up* who have decided to buy some after market cables, I'd like to hear your impressions of what you tried.
> 
> Many people will argue cables make no, or minimal difference, but those who have tried some what was your impression?
> 
> ...


 

 I use UP-OCC copper cables for my headphones (I have used silver etc.):
 http://www.c3audio.com/store/p11/Sennheiser_HD_800_Headphone_Cable_--_UPOCC.html
  
 Yes, I believe they are the best type and I can absolutely hear a difference.  My opinion of silver is that the cable is compensating for something it shouldn't in your system (i.e. you are addressing the symptom and not the problem.)


----------



## ru4music

daverich4 said:


> "let’s face it, the best mod that improves musical enjoyment is probably alcohol"
> Jason Stoddard, Schiit Audio
> 
> I think I have to agree. After more than 40 years of research I've found the most cost effective "tweek" that improves the sound of my system the most is several liberal applications of Lagavulin 16. YMMV


 

 And I always thought I was just being an aristocrat drinking wine with my listening session...


----------



## leftside

Picked these up when I was in England in December


----------



## Torq

Couple of quick pictures of the temporary home (that's why the wood colors don't match ... it's all moving in a few days) of my new WA5 LE etc.


----------



## Badas

Looks amazing. Thanks for posting.

What is the Auralic device in the middle. Is it there media server?


----------



## Torq

badas said:


> Looks amazing. Thanks for shearing.
> 
> What is the Auralic device in the middle. Is it there media server?


 

 It's the Aries ... which is a multi-function thing.
  
 It can act as a server with their Lightning DS app, but I'm principally interested in it for two other things: a) it's the only "higher-end" Roon end-point you can actually buy at the moment and b) it provides a an AES/EBU XLR input for my Yggdrasil, without any direct coupling to the source.
  
 Right now I'm doing some more testing with the Aries various outputs and the optical output on my Mac Pro ... which is why I moved it all into my office for a bit.


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> I use UP-OCC copper cables for my headphones (I have used silver etc.):
> http://www.c3audio.com/store/p11/Sennheiser_HD_800_Headphone_Cable_--_UPOCC.html
> 
> Yes, I believe they are the best type and I can absolutely hear a difference.  My opinion of silver is that the cable is compensating for something it shouldn't in your system (i.e. you are addressing the symptom and not the problem.) :wink_face:


I thought that's what copper is doing - but more addressing elements of the hd800

Whereas the silver tries to increase transparency 

Do you remember what the stock cable did v the c3? Particularly in the balance of the sound? Have you heard the stock cable recently?


----------



## abvolt

torq said:


> Couple of quick pictures of the temporary home (that's why the wood colors don't match ... it's all moving in a few days) of my new WA5 LE etc.


 
  
  that's a nice rig you've got..


----------



## ken6217

torq said:


> Couple of quick pictures of the temporary home (that's why the wood colors don't match ... it's all moving in a few days) of my new WA5 LE etc.


 
  
 Congrats! Very nice. That amp looks familiar. 
  
 That's some headphone collection. I really want to try the Abyss. How do they compare to your other headphones?
  
 How do you like those LCD-4's with this amp? I assume that's what they are. 
  
 Which brand driver tube did it come with. It looks different than mine.


----------



## isquirrel

Very nice system ! Love all the Silver.
  
 Are your LCD-4's the 200 ohm version? I have the 100 ohm originals, when I contacted Audeze they recommended hanging onto them unless of course they fail as they sound a little better. I don't know if that is a general Audeze POV or just the guys I spoke to.


----------



## isquirrel

Damn! One of my Elrog's died this morning. It seems to always be around the 400 hour mark. I was very careful with the bases on insertion as I know they are a weak point. I thought I would share this information as they are a good 300B, they are having teething issues though. I suppose being a new manufacturer with an unconventional design was always going to present challenges!
  
 The info I have from the Australian distributor is this quote:
  
 "The new base tubes are shipping 1st week of May. The one in the photo was the prototype pair and the bases are now fabricated in Germany. There are some other changes to the internals regarding the turn on rush current which will ensure much greater stability and reliability. The sound quality will be substantially better, this is essentially a redesign, Klaus took on-board yours and my thoughts about the bases and it has now ben proven in testing that that has been a major contributor to the failures, particularly in amps like the the Woo's as the sockets do not allow for much movement compared to say the Audionote ones where we have had zero failures"
  
 I found a photo of some new ELrog's on the Vinyl Saviour site 2 weeks ago which shows a completely different base design. Note the indent in the upper part of the base where it meets the glass. The current bases are cheap Chinese produced ones. The new bases are made in Germany to a much higher standard. I have listened to a test pair last week which had the serial numbers of +1,100 the ones which have failed have all been around the 400-600 range. I did notice that the test tubes sounded very very good and the mid & lower bass performance was much improved.
  
 Hope this sheds some light on whats going on. I think they are a very good tube and the test pair I heard sounded on a par with the Tak's. Different though which is good as it offers us more choices of top end current production 300B's. Its reasonable I suppose for Elrog to have had early issues, and that's okay with me as long as their commitment to warranty is 100%. They have replaced all of my faulty tubes, whilst they keep doing that and communicating about what they are doing to rectify and improve the situation I will hang in there.
  
 Photo of the new bases
  

  
 Photo of the old bases, notice the pins out of alignment.


----------



## ken6217

isquirrel said:


> Very nice system ! Love all the Silver.
> 
> Are your LCD-4's the 200 ohm version? I have the 100 ohm originals, when I contacted Audeze they recommended hanging onto them unless of course they fail as they sound a little better. I don't know if that is a general Audeze POV or just the guys I spoke to.


 

 Probably should keep them. The 100 ohms are easier to drive and you already know how they sound.


----------



## isquirrel

ken6217 said:


> Probably should keep them. The 100 ohms are easier to drive and you already know how they sound.


 

 Would be interesting though to hear some 200 ohm versions to compare. I don't know of anyone that has done a comparison. I was hoping the recent review on Headmania would have one but it wasn't so.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Damn! One of my Elrog's died this morning...


 
  
 Great post, Simon. Thanks for the update on the Elrogs. Very happy to hear that they have improved the tube significantly.
  
 Once my 300B amp is fixed my plan is to go for a set of the "new, improved" TA300Bs this year, and maybe a set of the "new, improved" Elrogs next year - assuming the reliability issues have died down.
  
 Has anyone heard the "new" TA300B and can compare with the "old" version?


----------



## Khragon

I got a pair of the improved Elrogs, will try when I receive my Glenn 300B. Hopefully better luck this time.


----------



## Rossliew

Do the Elrogs fail only with woo amps?


----------



## Khragon

rossliew said:


> Do the Elrogs fail only with woo amps?




I don't think so, not sure what other amp are out there that experienced failures, wish I have that info.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> I don't think so, not sure what other amp are out there that experienced failures, wish I have that info.




Yes. It is a Woo thing. I've heard through the grapevine it is a voltage thing. Not saying anymore than that (it is ban worthy and I don't want to get banned). 

Elrogs run forever in tube amps designed for speakers with manual bias controls. Set the right voltage and they are gold. I was at a local audio show and they had elrogs in a speaker amp. The guy on the stand said they had done 5000 hours plus. Hardly ever turned off. However the bias was set exactly to specification.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Great post, Simon. Thanks for the update on the Elrogs. Very happy to hear that they have improved the tube significantly.
> 
> Once my 300B amp is fixed my plan is to go for a set of the "new, improved" TA300Bs this year, and maybe a set of the "new, improved" Elrogs next year - assuming the reliability issues have died down.
> 
> Has anyone heard the "new" TA300B and can compare with the "old" version?


 
  
 Tony, you wouldn't believe it but that's exactly what I decided to do after the Elrog blew. I have had a brand new set of the latest version (delivered 8 weeks ago) of the TAK 300B and a new pair of the TAK 274B's sitting on the valve shelf. I had been putting some hours on the new pair of 274B's ( you know how I keep an OCD chart of the hours ) so they have 154 as of today. The new version 300B's have zero hours as of today.
  
 When the Elrog blew I had been running , TSRP 6SN7, Elrog 300B and Tak 274B (new shipment) so I put in the older Tak 300B's which have 2,100 hours on them. let them warm up for an hour or so and had the wife listen to her test tracks, result was she was not happy, comments were, lifeless, dull etc. Now as you know Tak's which have been laying up for a while take a week or at least a few days of good use to really wake up. After the bosses assessment I thought what the heck and have just put in the new TAK 300B's (new version). If they are anything like the older ones they sound okay for the 1st day and then terrible for the next 4-6 weeks. From my records the last set began to sound better just as they reached the 200 hour mark and then continued to improve up to 350 hours. 
  
 I will report back in a few hours and then once they have some decent time on them I will do a comparison. In the meantime I will get the older pair (2,100 hours) tested thoroughly as I am veery interested to see the results as it should give us a clear picture of the lifespan for Takatsuki 300B's.


----------



## Rossliew

Beautiful packaging, Tony!


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Yes. It is a Woo thing. I've heard through the grapevine it is a voltage thing. Not saying anymore than that (it is ban worthy and I don't want to get banned).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Dono, from experience, (I have had 6 pairs now) they have all failed in different ways, loss of vacuum, light shows, cracked base, movement between the base and the glass etc etc. I also heard it was an inrush current voltage problem. However as I said in my earlier post none of that matters as long as 2 things happen> 
  
 1 Elrog continue to stand by their warranty - so far so good, they have been excellent, I have read that users in the US have had issues in this department as I think the distributor changed. There was a whole heap of stuff written about that, most of which was pretty unkind. Anyway it didn't affect us here so all I can do is report on my own experiences, which so far have been great, in fact way better than any other Tube manufacturer I have had to deal with on warranty issues.
  
 2  Elrog continue to improve and work through these issues, the good news is that they sound bloody good when working and paired up right with the right ancillary tubes etc.
  
 Personally I have found that the communication I get from the local distributor which is Audionote AUS in Sydney is excellent, that, the sound quality and the warranty are the reasons I am hanging in there. I will be getting 2 pairs of the new Elrog on the 1st of May, I shall report back then. I would rather be an optimist and opine that they will get on top of these issues and when they do that, we will be fortunate to have then around as a good source of current production 300B's. Let us not forget that they didn't exactly start out with a traditional design and are pushing the boundaries so I wish them the best and hope there is good news to report shortly.


----------



## isquirrel

rossliew said:


> Do the Elrogs fail only with woo amps?


 

 No, the majority of the failures seem to be attributable to the bases, so if you have an amp which has spring sockets (like Audionote) you will be more likely to have success right now. It does worry me that so many have failed in my amps, not in one in particular which would point to an issue with the amp rather than the tube. There could be something with Woo amps, I don't know. I have asked Jack Wu several times and sent him the full technical spec from Elrog, however he see's nothing of concern with the amps design and points at the tubes design as being the issue.  
  
 Having said that Woo Audio imports the Takatsuki's so you can form your own conclusions.
  
 I think the sensible course of action is to wait for Elrog's new improved tubes to flow through and then see what happens. I have never had a Takatsuki 300B fail in either amp.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Dono, from experience, (I have had 6 pairs now) they have all failed in different ways, loss of vacuum, light shows, cracked base, movement between the base and the glass etc etc. I also heard it was an inrush current voltage problem. However as I said in my earlier post none of that matters as long as 2 things happen>
> 
> 1 Elrog continue to stand by their warranty - so far so good, they have been excellent, I have read that users in the US have had issues in this department as I think the distributor changed. There was a whole heap of stuff written about that, most of which was pretty unkind. Anyway it didn't affect us here so all I can do is report on my own experiences, which so far have been great, in fact way better than any other Tube manufacturer I have had to deal with on warranty issues.
> 
> ...




Yeah. If they keep supplying replacement tubes then I would stick by them as well. It just makes sense.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Yeah. If they keep supplying replacement tubes then I would stick by them as well. It just makes sense.


 

 I will report back when I have a new set of the new production version in my hands. Meanwhile its Tak's all the way


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> I will report back when I have a new set of the new production version in my hands. Meanwhile its Tak's all the way :bigsmile_face:




I think and would advise any new Woo owners to stay away from Elrog until they are sorted.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> I think and would advise any new Woo owners to stay away from Elrog until they are sorted.


 

 Agreed, I will have a much clearer picture after this new batch drives on the 1st May. I will also try and get some clarification from Thomas Meyer (Vinyl Saviour) who imports them into the US now. Be good if he would send a set to Woo so at least they could be tested thoroughly. I would not go to all this trouble if they didn't sound so special.
  
 He has a good site plenty of useful information on it in his blogs.


----------



## isquirrel

Oops forgot the link 
  
 http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au


----------



## Torq

ken6217 said:


> Congrats! Very nice. That amp looks familiar.
> 
> That's some headphone collection. I really want to try the Abyss. How do they compare to your other headphones?
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks!
  
 How are you enjoying yours?
  
 The Abyss are, so far, my favorite headphones overall.  I love the speed of their presentation, their dynamics and slam, the articulation and detail (and extension, of course) in the bass, and the fact that they are unfailingly musical and fun.  They tend to add a bit of enjoyable  sparkle in the treble that isn't always there in the recording, and though that can make them a tad less "actually" detailed than, say, the HD800S, the "apparent" detail on the Abyss is higher.  Soundstage is excellent.  And, by changing how they're positioned you can tune them for different signatures (e.g. I just flip the frame so that the drivers break the seal with my ears at the front and the bass becomes significantly deeper (and it's already best-in-class before you go there).
  
 Yes, those are LCD-4 you see.  They pair well with the WA5 LE, but so far I actually prefer them from the Ragnarok.  The Abyss were excellent on the Ragnarok and took a meaningful jump in enjoyment when coupled with the Woo.  The LCD-4 was not affected to the same degree.  I need to spend more time with the LCD-4 on the Woo, especially on the "high output" setting, but so far I have been so utterly captivated by the WA5/Abyss setup that I don't really want to listen to anything else at the moment!
  
 The driver tubes I received are RCAs; what did you get?
  
 The rectifiers and 300Bs are both PSVane (the 300B seem to be the "HiFi" line with the ceramic bases).


----------



## ken6217

torq said:


> Thanks!
> 
> How are you enjoying yours?
> 
> ...




I am enjoying mine as well. I'm not surprised that the LCD-4 sounds better on the Ragnarok. 

Have you ever tried Hifiman HE-1000? These are amazing. 

Mine came with the same tubes that yours came with. 

So what's your opinion of your WA5 versus the Rag?


----------



## Torq

ken6217 said:


> I am enjoying mine as well. I'm not surprised that the LCD-4 sounds better on the Ragnarok.
> 
> Have you ever tried Hifiman HE-1000? These are amazing.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I've tried the HE-1000!  They are excellent indeed.
  
 I hosted a little headphone shootout a month or two ago, which we're going to repeat more formally soon, and got to try the HE-1000 back to back with the Abyss, HD800S, Edition X and various flavors of HD800.  The LCD-4 was missing at that time, so we want to repeat it "all up" as it were.
  
 The presentation between the WA5 and the Ragnarok is different.  The Woo's midrange is pure liquid but without the overdone lushness that I've found in some tube amps over the years (at least with the stock tubes). That's the one area I'd say the WA5 beats out the Ragnarok.  But beyond that it's early days and I've not done very much comparative listening. For the most part I expect it will be minor signature differences between them ... the Ragnarok is, in my opinion, something of a bargain for what it does.
  
 I do know that I'll be keeping both amplifiers!


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> I thought that's what copper is doing - but more addressing elements of the hd800
> 
> Whereas the silver tries to increase transparency
> 
> Do you remember what the stock cable did v the c3? Particularly in the balance of the sound? Have you heard the stock cable recently?


 
  
 While the stock HD800 cable is fairly decent overall what the UP-OCC cable gives me is more true transparency.  It doesn't seem to emphasize or de-emphasize any part of the music.  The cable seems to disappear, like when listening to a good home stereo system and the speakers seem to vanish and all you have is great music seemingly coming from nowhere. 
  
 No, I've had no reason to run the stock cables again.


----------



## ken6217

WOWSA!!
  
 My first shot at tube rolling. Did I say WOWSA? I just switched out the stock rectifier tube on my the WA5 LE to a Brimar 5Z4GY. Night and day can't even describe the difference in sound. The treble and bass extension is soooo much better and clearer. So is the soundstage vertically. Vocals are beautiful.
  
 The amp went from boring to dynamic.
  
 I have some driver tubes to switch out but I want to get used to this sound first.
  
 This amp has a lot of promise and it's not even broken in yet.


----------



## TonyNewman

ken6217 said:


> WOWSA!!
> 
> My first shot at tube rolling. Did I say WOWSA? I just switched out the stock rectifier tube on my the WA5 LE to a Brimar 5Z4GY. Night and day can't even describe the difference in sound. The treble and bass extension is soooo much better and clearer. So is the soundstage vertically. Vocals are beautiful.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Brimar is brilliant value. You have to spend some serious coin to get a significantly better rectifier, I think. The only rectifier I have used that clearly beats it is the TA274B.


----------



## ken6217

Shout out to Badas for that call.


----------



## TonyNewman

ken6217 said:


> Shout out to Badas for that call.


 
  
 +1. Also spread the word of the good folks at Langrex.


----------



## phase0

How do you guys compare the Mullard GZ32 and GZ34 to the Brimar 5Z4GY?
  
 Where I sit right now is EML 300B (best of the rest), NU 6C8G, GZ32... I'm happy to hear there's a new build of the Taks and the Elrog. I'm totally scared of Elrog so I'm very interested to hear about updates on how those are progressing.
  
 I suspect the next biggest bang I can get is from going to Abyss headphones. Otherwise for cheaper I can keep looking for tubes to find what I like best. If you guys were going to go Tak for either 300B or 274B and got either/or which would you go for?


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> How do you guys compare the Mullard GZ32 and GZ34 to the Brimar 5Z4GY?
> 
> Where I sit right now is EML 300B (best of the rest), NU 6C8G, GZ32... I'm happy to hear there's a new build of the Taks and the Elrog. I'm totally scared of Elrog so I'm very interested to hear about updates on how those are progressing.
> 
> I suspect the next biggest bang I can get is from going to Abyss headphones. Otherwise for cheaper I can keep looking for tubes to find what I like best. If you guys were going to go Tak for either 300B or 274B and got either/or which would you go for?


 

  I have the Brimar 5Z4 and Mullard GZ32 and 30. Sorry no 34.
  
 I like the Brimar a lot more than the Mullards. It is more dynamic. Mullards are creamy but don't extend high or as low as the Brimar.
 However I must say that is just my opinion. I lent tubes out tubes to another member and he liked the Mullard better than the Brimar. We are all different.
  
 I also have the TAK274B. Now the Brimar gets close to the TAK. They are very similar sounding tubes. TAK just edges it out. Slightly deeper and fuller. However they are close.
  
 I would suggest getting Brimar rectifiers and TAK300B's. The resulting sound would be extremely close to a full TAK arrangement. However you will save some $$'s.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> Shout out to Badas for that call.


 
  
 Thanks for that.


tonynewman said:


> +1. Also spread the word of the good folks at Langrex.


 
  
 Absolutely. They have been fantastic. They are still suppose to have over 1000 still in stock. As these go down in numbers I can predict the price will increase. Maybe to Mullard GZ32 prices.


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> While the stock HD800 cable is fairly decent overall what the UP-OCC cable gives me is more true transparency.  It doesn't seem to emphasize or de-emphasize any part of the music.  The cable seems to disappear, like when listening to a good home stereo system and the speakers seem to vanish and all you have is great music seemingly coming from nowhere.
> 
> No, I've had no reason to run the stock cables again.


Thanks


----------



## reeltime

phase0 said:


> How do you guys compare the Mullard GZ32 and GZ34 to the Brimar 5Z4GY?
> 
> Where I sit right now is EML 300B (best of the rest), NU 6C8G, GZ32... I'm happy to hear there's a new build of the Taks and the Elrog. I'm totally scared of Elrog so I'm very interested to hear about updates on how those are progressing.
> 
> I suspect the next biggest bang I can get is from going to Abyss headphones. Otherwise for cheaper I can keep looking for tubes to find what I like best. If you guys were going to go Tak for either 300B or 274B and got either/or which would you go for?


 

 Here's my list for favorite rectifiers.  
  
 1) Mullard GZ34 (Metal Base) 
 2) EML 5U4G Mesh
 3) UE 596
 4) Mullard GZ34 (Black Base)
 5) Mullard GZ32
 6) CV378
 7) Sofia Electric 274B
  
 Note: All of these tubes are excellent.  This is my preference.  I haven't auditioned several important tubes:  Takatsuki 274B, Western Electric 274B, Brimars.  The Taks are definitely the next rectifier I will buy.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> I have the Brimar 5Z4 and Mullard GZ32 and 30. Sorry no 34.
> 
> I like the Brimar a lot more than the Mullards. It is more dynamic. Mullards are creamy but don't extend high or as low as the Brimar.
> However I must say that is just my opinion. I lent tubes out tubes to another member and he liked the Mullard better than the Brimar. We are all different.
> ...


 
  
 Appreciate the advise. You have been great and I don't think you post too much =) Your advise has been rock solid. Like you said we are all different in our preferences but everything you've suggested has been really solid. This Brimar are cheap enough right now I'm going to get some. Originally I was thinking I'll just get a set of something pretty good and be done with it. Now I'm into this deep enough the Brimar are practically pocket change so it's a no-brainer.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> ... I would suggest getting Brimar rectifiers and TAK300B's. The resulting sound would be extremely close to a full TAK arrangement. However you will save some $$'s.


 
  
 +1 on that. The Brimars are so good that the hefty price of the TA274B is hard to justify. I found the bass was the biggest improvement of TA274B over the Brimar. The Brimar is very good, the TA274B is superb.


----------



## phase0

reeltime said:


> Here's my list for favorite rectifiers.
> 
> 1) Mullard GZ34 (Metal Base)
> 2) EML 5U4G Mesh
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the list. Interesting that I have #4 (black base) and #5 (brown base). My preference went to the GZ32 just a bit. I felt it was more open/airy and that there was a bit of a lushness I enjoyed that seemed to be missing with the GZ34. I'm having good luck so far with my EML 300B. I suppose I should swap it back to Psave at some point to try and gain some perspective. I could see the EML 5U4G being a good choice. The last time I searched on the GZ34 Metal base it looked like it was going to be an expensive option and difficult to find a pair (all I saw were singles listed). At that point maybe it's worth it to spend a lot more and get the Taks? I don't know I haven't heard anything beyond #4 and 5 on your list.


----------



## 3083joe

phase0 said:


> Thank you for the list. Interesting that I have #4 (black base) and #5 (brown base). My preference went to the GZ32 just a bit. I felt it was more open/airy and that there was a bit of a lushness I enjoyed that seemed to be missing with the GZ34. I'm having good luck so far with my EML 300B. I suppose I should swap it back to Psave at some point to try and gain some perspective. I could see the EML 5U4G being a good choice. The last time I searched on the GZ34 Metal base it looked like it was going to be an expensive option and difficult to find a pair (all I saw were singles listed). At that point maybe it's worth it to spend a lot more and get the Taks? I don't know I haven't heard anything beyond #4 and 5 on your list.



Tak 274b is best!!


----------



## TonyNewman

3083joe said:


> Tak 274b is best!!


 
  
 +1. It's the best I have heard.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Tak 274b is best!!


 

 Yes it is. Flawless tube. I still haven't found a fault.
  
 I'm running TAK274B with the 6BL7 and the only difference between our rigs are the drivers. I'm using TS and yours is Mullard. Over all our rigs must sound close.
  
 I was blown away by the 6BL7 in the weekend. What a ugly tube. However amazing. It must be highly efficient. I had my amp on for 6.5 hours yesterday and the WA22 body was still cool. The Transformers were only just warm. Usually everything by then is getting very warm to hot.
 High gain, Very efficient and great sound. An excellent tube.
  
 Have ya tried the flat plate version.


----------



## reeltime

phase0 said:


> Thank you for the list. Interesting that I have #4 (black base) and #5 (brown base). My preference went to the GZ32 just a bit. I felt it was more open/airy and that there was a bit of a lushness I enjoyed that seemed to be missing with the GZ34. I'm having good luck so far with my EML 300B. I suppose I should swap it back to Psave at some point to try and gain some perspective. I could see the EML 5U4G being a good choice. The last time I searched on the GZ34 Metal base it looked like it was going to be an expensive option and difficult to find a pair (all I saw were singles listed). At that point maybe it's worth it to spend a lot more and get the Taks? I don't know I haven't heard anything beyond #4 and 5 on your list.


 

 I can't comment about the Taks, I just haven't heard them and I don't know where they would fall in this list.  It's not fair for me to venture a guess.  
  
 The GZ34 metal base is a special tube.  The controlled base punch exceeds any other rectifier I've tried, and it doesn't sacrifice airiness and sparkle.  It does everything so well-- at least in the WA5LE.  Yes, it's a very expensive option, though cheaper than the Taks.  The life on the Mullard tubes are seemingly forever, handled with care.  I've never seen a single Mullard rectifier fail (we're talking 50-70 year old tubes!), and I've been using different versions for 10 years.  The only thing going against it?  It's the ugliest tube here.  Stubby, short, hardly any glow.  But for sound, I haven't heard better.
  
  The EML 5U4G is an excellent rectifier, and a beautiful tube to look at (hey, aesthetics count for something!).  I had those tubes for several years, and they're very near equal to the GZ-34 metal base.  

  
 The 596 is a stunning tube, it's just a bit light on the bottom end for my taste.  I'm not a bass-head, but I like a full sound.  But there are other areas like detail, soundstage, and transparency give the 596 an advantage over some other tubes.  
  
 The GZ32 and GZ34 black bases are fairly similar to my ears.  I wouldn't have an issue with someone preferring one over the other.  I give the GZ34 an edge because the bass is a bit stronger.  But it lacks the detail of the others above it on the list and the soundstage isn't as good.  
  
 Try the CV378, too.  This is an excellent tube and won't break the bank.  I haven't heard them in a long time, I sold mine off, but they were right with the GZ34 and GZ32.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 That's a great summary. It is difficult to put these down in words sometimes.
  
 I have a feeling that the Mullard GZ34 metal base and the TAK274B could be similar. The TAK also delves deeper than any rectifier I have heard. Also without any treble sacrifice.
  
 Probably what makes these tubes so good (dynamic range).


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> ^
> 
> That's a great summary. It is difficult to put these down in words sometimes.
> 
> ...


 

 I was going to buy the Tak 274B next, so I could compare.  But unfortunately an Elrog flameout put a new 300B to the front of the line.


----------



## Shini44

i wonder how does the TAK274B + Elrog 300b combos sound on the WA5 LE?
  
 also where can i buy the new redesigned Elrog 300b? (will be out on May?)


----------



## reeltime

shini44 said:


> i wonder how does the TAK274B + Elrog 300b combos sound on the WA5 LE?
> 
> also where can i buy the new redesigned Elrog 300b? (will be out on May?)


 

 http://www.tubesusa.com
  
 May 1 is the scheduled release.  I will NOT be the first to buy!  Y'all can go ahead without me.  Let me know what I'm missing.  Fool me once...


----------



## Shini44

thanks for the link,   i am planing to use the new Elrog with the TAK274B, since the Mullard GZ34 Metal Base pairs are hard to find. i asked them if they have some, lets wait for their answer.
  
  
 should i pass on the new Elrog? who knows if they are going to fail or now O-o'' i mean with the WA5 LE :<


----------



## phase0

shini44 said:


> thanks for the link,   i am planing to use the new Elrog with the TAK274B, since the Mullard GZ34 Metal Base pairs are hard to find. i asked them if they have some, lets wait for their answer.
> 
> 
> should i pass on the new Elrog? who knows if they are going to fail or now O-o'' i mean with the WA5 LE :<


 
  
 Just my opinion, if you're scraping and saving and busting the piggy bank to get nice 300Bs, go for the safer bet with the Tak or something else. If you're willing to take the risk of early death and deal with warranty and all of that then dive in. isquirrel was saying most of the issues were around the base and that is now corrected. I share the hope that we get another top of the line 300B option. Dive in and let us know


----------



## Khragon

Choose Elrog for that magical _thoriated_ tungsten glow , no 300Bs will glow brighter (unless it's blowing up, Tony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> Choose Elrog for that magical _thoriated_ tungsten glow , no 300Bs will glow brighter.


 

 What like this?


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> What like this?


 

 That certainly is a pretty tube.


----------



## reeltime

shini44 said:


> thanks for the link,   i am planing to use the new Elrog with the TAK274B, since the Mullard GZ34 Metal Base pairs are hard to find. i asked them if they have some, lets wait for their answer.
> 
> 
> should i pass on the new Elrog? who knows if they are going to fail or now O-o'' i mean with the WA5


 
  
  
 Until someone has 1000 hours on the new Elrog, I'm going with Takatsuki.  No sense in rolling the dice.  Let someone else try.
  
 I like their sound, but everyone agrees the Taks are just as good-- just different, and don't blow up.


----------



## TonyNewman

khragon said:


> Choose Elrog for that magical _thoriated_ tungsten glow , no 300Bs will glow brighter (unless it's blowing up, Tony
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's something nobody wants to see - particularly in nice 300B amp that is only a few weeks old.
  
 Have to admit it did glow rather spectacularly, not that I was happy to see it.


----------



## Badas

Sweet. Just got these for the WA22.
  
 I can finally try out the flat plate version 6BL7. Only from Australia as well. So they shouldn't take long.


----------



## isquirrel

shini44 said:


> thanks for the link,   i am planing to use the new Elrog with the TAK274B, since the Mullard GZ34 Metal Base pairs are hard to find. i asked them if they have some, lets wait for their answer.
> 
> 
> should i pass on the new Elrog? who knows if they are going to fail or now O-o'' i mean with the WA5 LE :<


 

 I would suggest you wait on the Elrog's until we start to see long stability with Woo amps. 
  
 Hmm I have some sets of the Mullard Metal Base GZ34, PM me if you are interested.


----------



## isquirrel

Tony, swapped over the old and the new Takatsuki 300B's yesterday, still running the new versions. 
  
 You wanted some early commentary old vs new - new version wins, no contest. Course still needs time to really open up etc. I am really liking what I am hearing. I blind tested the wife she picked the new ones hands down.
  
 There could be the issue of age, but I would be very very surprised if the Takatsuki's only had a operational life of 2,000 hours. I will get them tested and also tested and compared to the new to shed some more light on what is going on. Or it just could be that the new version Tak 300B is superior to the old.


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Tony, swapped over the old and the new Takatsuki 300B's yesterday, still running the new versions.
> 
> You wanted some early commentary old vs new - new version wins, no contest. Course still needs time to really open up etc. I am really liking what I am hearing. I blind tested the wife she picked the new ones hands down.
> 
> There could be the issue of age, but I would be very very surprised if the Takatsuki's only had a operational life of 2,000 hours. I will get them tested and also tested and compared to the new to shed some more light on what is going on. Or it just could be that the new version Tak 300B is superior to the old.


 
  
 Good to know. The old version was so very good - makes me keen to hear the new version.


----------



## isquirrel

tonynewman said:


> Good to know. The old version was so very good - makes me keen to hear the new version.


 

 Obviously its early days, but its already sounding a fair bit better than the older version which was well run in. I will post more details once I also noticed it has opened up quicker than the older version.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Obviously its early days, but its already sounding a fair bit better than the older version which was well run in. I will post more details once I also noticed it has opened up quicker than the older version.




Takasuki is an amazing company. It seems like they are amazing again. Physically can you see much difference in the internal or external construction? 

If they sound that great with long life and reliability then they should dominate the new 274B and 300B market.


----------



## TonyNewman

badas said:


> Takasuki is an amazing company. It seems like they are amazing again. Physically can you see much difference in the internal or external construction?
> 
> If they sound that great with long life and reliability then they should dominate the new 274B and 300B market.


 
  
 Word I have heard is that they are owned / driven by a wealthy Japanese audiophile. They are a dedicated bunch of folks who are trying to produce tubes better than the best of the past (vintage WE300B / WE274B / WE422A). The results speak for themselves (anyone that has heard a TA300B / TA274B will know what I am yarping on about).


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Takasuki is an amazing company. It seems like they are amazing again. Physically can you see much difference in the internal or external construction?
> 
> If they sound that great with long life and reliability then they should dominate the new 274B and 300B market.


 

 No I cannot see any major visual difference, the only identifier that this is the new versions is on the sales invoice and on the Takatsuki booklet the they come with. However this is a major find as previously I always felt that for me the combo of both of the 300B and the same companies 274B was a little too much of good thing in that there was a heaviness to the sound that could be changed by running the Tak 300B with a different rectifier the best being the Mullard Metal Base GZ34. Which suited the 300B perfectly and lifted its pace and gave a little lift in its dynamic performance. Now the pairing sounds more wholesome like they are the perfect match for each other. Tonally now they are now in harmony and it terms of dynamics the new version 300B is superior in pace and scale. 
  
 We will get a better idea of life, which I would expect to be similar to the Western Electrics once I get these tested.


----------



## Shini44

reeltime said:


> Until someone has 1000 hours on the new Elrog, I'm going with Takatsuki.  No sense in rolling the dice.  Let someone else try.
> 
> I like their sound, but everyone agrees the Taks are just as good-- just different, and don't blow up.


 
  


isquirrel said:


> I would suggest you wait on the Elrog's until we start to see long stability with Woo amps.
> 
> Hmm I have some sets of the Mullard Metal Base GZ34, PM me if you are interested.


 
  
 i only listen to J-pop , and from reading here, the best for speed and electronic is Elrog + metal base GZ34. So if anyone should take the risk here and be the first to test will be me  
  
 the Elrog + metal base GZ34 still maintain the lushness of the mids right? and details. i really hope so O-o'' 
  
 correct it me if i was wrong >,<;
  
  
 i forgot to mention that i am using Chord Hugo TT, which is a nice dynamic DAC, the Treble and Bass there are fun but never bright, i guess the TAK set will do fine on it? Electronic and J-pop wise, or i am still better of with the previous set above?


----------



## reeltime

shini44 said:


> i only listen to J-pop , and from reading here, the best for speed and electronic is Elrog + metal base GZ34. So if anyone should take the risk here and be the first to test will be me
> 
> the Elrog + metal base GZ34 still maintain the lushness of the mids right? and details. i really hope so O-o''
> 
> ...


 

 Simon said the best match for the Elrog was the Takatsuki 274B, but I'm a fan of the GZ34, I doubt either rectifier would disappoint.
  
 I've got a pair of Tak 300Bs coming in a week or two.  I have the Hugo TT-- that DAC is stunning, I've not heard a better DAC (I've heard different, but not necessarily better).  The Hugo TT with true DSD files is probably my favorite source.  I actually prefer DSD sonics through the TT over my huge vinyl collection, and I never thought I'd say that.


----------



## Shini44

reeltime said:


> Simon said the best match for the Elrog was the Takatsuki 274B, but I'm a fan of the GZ34, I doubt either rectifier would disappoint.


 
 wasn't the GZ34 faster in the bass? and with more Treble? compared to the 274B which lean toward being a good all rounder and more detailed when compared to the metal base GZ34
  
 correct me if i was wrong. it would be nice if the 274B was a better pair for the Elrog as both are new and available <3 yet i am talking about J-pop and electronic here, and from reading i see that the GZ34 is faster and more SS like yet without sacrificing the lushness of the mids. 
  
  
  
@isquirrel can you tell us about the Elrog + TAK274B please? and compare it with Elrog + GZ34 Metal Base.


----------



## 3083joe

shini44 said:


> wasn't the GZ34 faster in the bass? and with more Treble? compared to the 274B which lean toward being a good all rounder and more detailed when compared to the metal base GZ34
> 
> correct me if i was wrong. it would be nice if the 274B was a better pair for the Elrog as both are new and available <3 yet i am talking about J-pop and electronic here, and from reading i see that the GZ34 is faster and more SS like yet without sacrificing the lushness of the mids.
> 
> ...



Good question.


----------



## 3083joe

Picked these up today for a great price. Quite impressed.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Sweet. Just got these for the WA22.
> 
> I can finally try out the flat plate version 6BL7. Only from Australia as well. So they shouldn't take long.


 
 Expecting several pairs of this type. Seller already found 2 pairs of these tubes and he is still looking he's old school so no internet or cataloging  for this guy it could take awhile lol. Looking forward to your impressions of this tube


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Expecting several pairs of this type. Seller already found 2 pairs of these tubes and he is still looking he's old school so no internet or cataloging  for this guy it could take awhile lol. Looking forward to your impressions of this tube


 

 Yeah. The seller that I got these from has two more pairs also. If they do sound better than the other plate version 6BL7 I will snap them up also.
  
 I'm very impressed with the 6BL7. WA22 has never sounded better. Plus it runs really cool. 3 hours yesterday and the case and underneath was still cold.
  
 I think both plate designs are gold. Either will be suitable. However I am curious as Glenn told me the flat plate version was the one to get.


----------



## ken6217

Got my accessories today............


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> Got my accessories today............


 

 That will keep you out of trouble.


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> That will keep you out of trouble.


 

 The good news, it makes the pins shiny. The bad news is it is a PITA. This is great for someone that has OCD.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Yeah. The seller that I got these from has two more pairs also. If they do sound better than the other plate version 6BL7 I will snap them up also.
> 
> I'm very impressed with the 6BL7. WA22 has never sounded better. Plus it runs really cool. 3 hours yesterday and the case and underneath was still cold.
> 
> I think both plate designs are gold. Either will be suitable. However I am curious as Glenn told me the flat plate version was the one to get.


 

 Glad you are getting good sound. WooHoo! 
  
 Did you ever try the GZ30 you got from Langrex?  I quite like the tube on the 6SE.  Looking forward to trying them on the WA6 that arrived for the office today, after break-in. 
  
 Oh and BTW, Langrex did make good on the lost eBay store order. Sadly, with three orders under my belt, it takes about 2 weeks for their air mail shipments to arrive at one of the largest cities in the States.  China air post arrives within a week and it is further away. Langrex also did honor me with a reply to one of my two inquires, after 11 days. Business must really be good to get so far behind. To be fair:  The valves I have received are high quality and well packaged. Would that others took such care.in packing and had such fine valves. I will not hesitate to do future business with them for non-local sourcing.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Glad you are getting good sound. WooHoo!
> 
> Did you ever try the GZ30 you got from Langrex?  I quite like the tube on the 6SE.  Looking forward to trying them on the WA6 that arrived for the office today, after break-in.
> 
> Oh and BTW, Langrex did make good on the lost eBay store order. Sadly, with three orders under my belt, it takes about 2 weeks for their air mail shipments to arrive at one of the largest cities in the States.  China air post arrives within a week and it is further away. Langrex also did honor me with a reply to one of my two inquires, after 11 days. Business must really be good to get so far behind. To be fair:  The valves I have received are high quality and well packaged. Would that others took such care.in packing and had such fine valves. I will not hesitate to do future business with them for non-local sourcing.


 
  
 Hi bud.
  
 GZ30
 Yes I did. I had a lot on when they arrived. At the same time I changed my DAC. Which changed the sound dramatically. At least 20% for the better. I was really pleased.
  
 I probably didn't give them the time they deserved. So I will re look at them. Quick impressions were they were nice / great. I thought they sounded like the GZ32. I have 4 of these so I should compare. GZ30 is way better value tho. The hard thing is I have the TAK274B and that is king. Every time I TAK (pun intended) it out I want to put it back in.
  
 I will eventually do a mini shootout between the Mullard GZ30 / Mullard GZ32 / Brimar 5Z4GY and TAK274B. It should be interesting.
  
 Langrex is really an old school English company. I'm not meaning any offense in any way or form but I know a few Americans and have lived in the US a few times. You guys are different when it comes to service. Service has to be fast and now. British and Commonwealth countries like where I come from (New Zealand) are more laid back. We are slow and take our sweet time. Sometimes it comes across as rude. Sometimes we are rude. It's just the way it's done. My American friends here get so annoyed and pull their hair out. They can't believe it.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Hi bud.
> 
> GZ30
> Yes I did. I had a lot on when they arrived. At the same time I changed my DAC. Which changed the sound dramatically. At least 20% for the better. I was really pleased.
> ...


 
  
 Will look forward to your mini shoot-out. Have not had the pleasure of meeting TAK274B, still wallowing around with NOS rectifiers and widening the experience with NOS drivers too.   
 Thanks for your candor and for sharing your take on the proclivities of the business practices . While that has not been my experience, no offense taken.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I was employed by a British firm for a very long time.  Spoiled me for life.  After the first few pints of real ale were pulled during my first visit to London, it was over for fizzy beer!  In all seriousness though, there is much to be said for the niceties that are still in place, for the most part, in many British and Commonwealth countries.
  
 Back on topic, sort of, I notice you have both the LCD-3 and LCD-X, if you get a chance, very briefly, which cans do you favor in broad general terms with the WA22 for which genres? Thanks.


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> Hi bud.
> 
> GZ30
> Yes I did. I had a lot on when they arrived. At the same time I changed my DAC. Which changed the sound dramatically. At least 20% for the better. I was really pleased.
> ...




I live in New Jersey. I order tubes from Brimar last Sunday and I received them on Thursday. In ordered another set yesterday and they were shipped yesterday.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Yeah. The seller that I got these from has two more pairs also. If they do sound better than the other plate version 6BL7 I will snap them up also.
> 
> I'm very impressed with the 6BL7. WA22 has never sounded better. Plus it runs really cool. 3 hours yesterday and the case and underneath was still cold.
> 
> I think both plate designs are gold. Either will be suitable. However I am curious as Glenn told me the flat plate version was the one to get.



Told you about theses just something about them. 
Also swapping drivers changes signature much more than with other power tubes. Imo


----------



## isquirrel

shini44 said:


> wasn't the GZ34 faster in the bass? and with more Treble? compared to the 274B which lean toward being a good all rounder and more detailed when compared to the metal base GZ34
> 
> correct me if i was wrong. it would be nice if the 274B was a better pair for the Elrog as both are new and available <3 yet i am talking about J-pop and electronic here, and from reading i see that the GZ34 is faster and more SS like yet without sacrificing the lushness of the mids.
> 
> ...


 

 A couple of things to clear up here.
  
 First up: As we know the Elrog is has on a thoriated tungsten filament instead of the usual heater/ plate array's. I am not very technically minded so don't shoot me if I make an error here guys.THis gives the Elrog incredible clarity and gone is any softness in the bass. The tonal colours are wonderful better IMHO than any other tube I have come across. They have a shocking realism to the sound. They are also fast and sometimes paired with a cooler sounding - almost SS sound rectifier the sound can end up being fast, impactful but lacking a little in texture and fleshing out of the mid bass area and vocals.
  
Now for Shini44 purposes this might be ideal pairing a Elrog with a Mullard GZ34, in any case you can't go wrong with owning a nice pair of Mullard Metal Bases GZ34's, they essentially last forever - on good authority I have been told they should easily do in excess of 100,000 hours and still test like new. So amazing value for money and a bullet proof tube. They were only made over  period of 3 years and most of them in Holland hence the stamp on the base shooed read either (19) 55H 56H or 57H and should be marked Mullard or Philips. Mullard made them all so don't worry about the Philips stamp, but for collectability you want Mullards.
  
I don't understand you wishing to rush into the Elrog situation right now, we are so close to having the new build which hopefully will solve all our problems. You are more likely than not to have issues. However that is for you to decide. I will say that once you have listened to the Elrog's its a sound that makes a big impression on you and you don't forget easily. 
  
 They are beautifully finished, no tube I have ever seen comes close to the external finish, it is flawless. Shame about the internal issues.
  
 I like the pairing of the Takatsuki 274B with them as the Tak rectifiers help bring out incredible tonal colours and flesh out the sound giving it more texture. The pairing of the Elrog's and the GZ34 metal bases is as close to a perfect tube doing its best to sound SS. *If you are into that.......*
  
 Me I like my tubes to be lush and full bodied with gobs of texture and tonal colours. Hence the Takatsuki's. My wife prefers the Elrog's to the Tak 300B's, I am torn between the two and I consider that to be a wonderful thing that in this day and age we have a genuine couple of superstars that are in production, I can only pray that Elrog develop into a reliable tube. With every new iteration I am given the sound improves. I cannot wait for the new batch to arrive and will be getting one set under warranty the other set I will buy. Such is the addiction.
  
 In summary: If you have the budget to own a set of the Takatsuki's 300B, 274B's, Elrog 300B's and a pair of Mullard metal base GZ34 you are set. Mix and match to your heart's content, whatever you do be very careful handling the Elrog's and never even think about touching them while they have any heat in them whatsoever.
  
 If you need help getting onto the new batch of Elrog's I can help. Photos of the Mullard's with the right markings etc.


----------



## isquirrel

I thought I would post about an article I found a while ago while cruising around looking for more detail on Western Electric 300B tubes. This article I have copied directly from the Stereophile archives. Date of the article is 1999 when the WE's were still in production.
  
*"I happened to meet Western Electric's owner/director, Charles Whitener, at the London HiFi Show last September. I told him about our amazement when we found out that the WE tubes clearly needed more hours of burn-in than the others; and about our confusion over the first pair of WEs, which were supposed to have been burned-in at the factory but didn't sound right until after we'd given them another 200 hours. Whitener confirmed our guess: Other than a standard 24-hour test, the first pair of WEs hadn't been burned-in at all. WE never does that. (The guy who told me that they do no longer works at WE.) *
*Whitener also explained to me why WE tubes take a longer time to break in than other brands. As in all other makes, the coating (footnote 1) on a WE300B's heater contains barium oxide and strontium oxide, but WE does not add the usual small amount of calcium oxide. The calcium acts as a kind of pep pill in activating the barium, meaning that calcium-doped 300Bs reach their peak rather quickly, within 100-200 hours, and thereafter (according to Whitener) degrade slowly. Though the WE takes considerably longer to reach its top level of performance, its absence of calcium is said to maintain that high level over the tube's entire lifespan. *
*As of now, Western Electric suggests a minimum of 500 hours' burn-in, that recommendation to be included in their future literature"*

*Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/search-perfect-300b-tube-followup#FthyfobK8wrOekyJ.99*
  
 I believe this also applies to the Takatsuki tubes, namely they do not have the calcium dope either. This explains the long burn in times and the long lifespan.


----------



## Shini44

isquirrel said:


> Now for Shini44 purposes this might be ideal pairing a Elrog with a Mullard GZ34, in any case you can't go wrong with owning a nice pair of Mullard Metal Bases GZ34's,
> 
> 
> I like the pairing of the Takatsuki 274B with them as the Tak rectifiers help bring out incredible tonal colours and flesh out the sound giving it more texture. The pairing of the Elrog's and the GZ34 metal bases is as close to a perfect tube doing its best to sound SS. *If you are into that.......*
> ...


 
  
 yeh seems like the best tubes to own, thanks for the notes ^^ i wanted to know what is the the best pair of tubes to make the sound near the SS (clearly mullard + elrog) but still have the creamy detailed lush mids of a tube amp. maybe elrog + TAK274B? unless you didn't test that before, i guess we won't know?  to achieve the perfect balance between SS and Tube amp. i guess i will need all of the tubes after while XD
  
  
 " *fleshing out *of the mid bass area *and vocals* " the female vocals + upper mids are still lush like on tube amp? even that they are with less density on Elrog+gz34, my collection is 95% female vocals. 
  
  
  
 oh no worries not planing to get the old elrog, i live far away and don't wana have any risk or lose time when something fail on me -.-''
  
 i think i will start with Elrog (new one) and TAK247B, this would suit me? later on i will buy the GZ34 from you >=P
  
  
 btw which affect the sound more? the 300b or the rectifier tubes, and by what percentage? 70% depend on the 300b? so i know what to get first or what is more important etc.
  
 man i will do a lot of tests xD


----------



## 3083joe

Just purchased a gz34 metal will compare it to tak274b in my wa22 and let you all know.


----------



## Oskari

isquirrel said:


> Now for Shini44 purposes this might be ideal pairing a Elrog with a Mullard GZ34, in any case you can't go wrong with owning a nice pair of Mullard Metal Bases GZ34's, they essentially last forever - on good authority I have been told they should easily do in excess of 100,000 hours and still test like new. So amazing value for money and a bullet proof tube. They were only made over  period of 3 years and most of them in Holland hence the stamp on the base shooed read either (19) 55H 56H or 57H and should be marked Mullard or Philips. Mullard made them all so don't worry about the Philips stamp, but for collectability you want Mullards.




They were not made by Mullard. They were made by Philips in the Netherlands. Philips was the parent company of Mullard and many other companies. Mullard was "Philips UK", Valvo was "Philips Germany", etc.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> A couple of things to clear up here.
> 
> First up: As we know the Elrog is has on a thoriated tungsten filament instead of the usual heater/ plate array's. I am not very technically minded so don't shoot me if I make an error here guys.THis gives the Elrog incredible clarity and gone is any softness in the bass. The tonal colours are wonderful better IMHO than any other tube I have come across. They have a shocking realism to the sound. They are also fast and sometimes paired with a cooler sounding - almost SS sound rectifier the sound can end up being fast, impactful but lacking a little in texture and fleshing out of the mid bass area and vocals.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent post. You have your moments Simon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Great information.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Told you about theses just something about them.
> Also swapping drivers changes signature much more than with other power tubes. Imo


 

 Yeah. You really caught my attention when you sold your beloved GEC 6AS7G's. I knew they must be something special.
  
 I've been meaning to ask you. I noticed on the 6AS7G thread that a lot of you including yourself are running adapters to run multiple 6BL7's in one 6AS7G socket.
 I don't think I want to do that and am very happy with the sound and power from one single 6BL7. Do I run the risk of damaging my amp if I don't? Can I just run one?
  
 Agreed. I have always thought the drivers make the biggest impact on the WA22.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Yeah. You really caught my attention when you sold your beloved GEC 6AS7G's. I knew they must be something special.
> 
> I've been meaning to ask you. I noticed on the 6AS7G thread that a lot of you including yourself are running adapters to run multiple 6BL7's in one 6AS7G socket.


 
 Hopefully they'll arrive this week  I'm also going to try out multiple 6BL7's later this year.


----------



## Shini44

oskari said:


> They were not made by Mullard. They were made by Philips in the Netherlands. Philips was the parent company of Mullard and many other companies. Mullard was "Philips UK", Valvo was "Philips Germany", etc.


 





 i will be waiting


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Hopefully they'll arrive this week  I'm also going to try out multiple 6BL7's later this year.


 

 Have you tried the 6BL7 yet? Are you running one per socket?
 My amp runs super cold. Crikey my SS amp runs hotter. I think there is some concern that the 6BL7 needs an external heater to work properly. I just wonder if this could cause amp damage???
  
 I hope not. I like my amp running colder and the sound is the best I've heard from a power tube. So I want to carry on using them.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Have you tried the 6BL7 yet?


 

 Not yet. I'm waiting a few months to see what happens with the early adopters


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Not yet. I'm waiting a few months to see what happens with the early adopters


 

 Well so far I've run my amp for 2 + 2 + 6.5 + 3.5 hours. No issues at all. One tube started slightly noisy however that is 98% gone now.
  
 Just freaks me out how cool the amp runs. When I did the 6.5 hour session the body of the WA22 was cool. Underneath was cool. Just the transformers were ever so slightly warm. You had to sit with your hand on the transformer for a while to get the temp. It was that slight.
  
 When running any other 6080/6AS7G type tube the whole amp would get very warm. Transformers borderline hot.
  
 So a big difference.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Yeah. You really caught my attention when you sold your beloved GEC 6AS7G's. I knew they must be something special.
> 
> I've been meaning to ask you. I noticed on the 6AS7G thread that a lot of you including yourself are running adapters to run multiple 6BL7's in one 6AS7G socket.
> I don't think I want to do that and am very happy with the sound and power from one single 6BL7. Do I run the risk of damaging my amp if I don't? Can I just run one?
> ...



Most everyone is running 2 or more. 
The 2 sounds a bit better maybe 15 %. But it's worth it. In the wa22 you will not hurt anything running 2. More yes but two never. My transformers never get hot even after 6-8 hrs running with 2 per side


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Most everyone is running 2 or more.
> The 2 sounds a bit better maybe 15 %. But it's worth it. In the wa22 you will not hurt anything running 2. More yes but two never. My transformers never get hot even after 6-8 hrs running with 2 per side


 

 How long did you run 1 per side for? No damage?


----------



## Aussie Lou

3083joe said:


> Most everyone is running 2 or more.
> The 2 sounds a bit better maybe 15 %. But it's worth it. In the wa22 you will not hurt anything running 2. More yes but two never. My transformers never get hot even after 6-8 hrs running with 2 per side


 

 When configuring 2 6BL7's per side where do you place each set of matched pairs if you have two separate sets?
  
 Is one set of the matched pairs placed on the inside of the adapters and the other set placed on the outside?


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> How long did you run 1 per side for? No damage?



Week or two. 
But should be good forever. Uses less than 6as7. 2 uses only .5 amp per side more than 6as7 
Glenn told me there will not be any issue with 1 or 2. But don't go three without external heater.


----------



## 3083joe

aussie lou said:


> When configuring 2 6BL7's per side where do you place each set of matched pairs if you have two separate sets?
> 
> Is one set of the matched pairs placed on the inside of the adapters and the other set placed on the outside?



I have quad marched but 1 matched on one side and the other in same place on other side. Seemed fine with me. Also ran 2 difference plate structures 1 on each side in same place on adapter


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Week or two.
> But should be good forever. Uses less than 6as7. 2 uses only .5 amp per side more than 6as7
> Glenn told me there will not be any issue with 1 or 2. But don't go three without external heater.


 

 Excellent. Thanks for that info. I appreciate it.


----------



## ken6217

My eye candy for this evening. Can't stop staring at the amp. The visual novelty hasn't worn off yet. My Tak 300B tubes should arrive next week.


----------



## Badas

Deleted.


----------



## JoeDoe

Second time WA7tp owner checking in. EH Gold pins in the WA7 and RCA Cleartops in the PSU. The GH1s are soundin' _sweet!_


----------



## phase0

ken6217 said:


> I live in New Jersey. I order tubes from Brimar last Sunday and I received them on Thursday. In ordered another set yesterday and they were shipped yesterday.


 
  
 Well I ordered a set on Sunday (10th). Other than receipt for payment I haven't received any shipping notice or update... It's been two days so I'm not worried about it and I can wait a couple weeks if that's how long it takes, but if they're quick for you and I hear nothing that does make me worried.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Well I ordered a set on Sunday (10th). Other than receipt for payment I haven't received any shipping notice or update... It's been two days so I'm not worried about it and I can wait a couple weeks if that's how long it takes, but if they're quick for you and I hear nothing that does make me worried.


 

 They never tell you that they have shipped. The package just arrives. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Chances are they are on the way.


----------



## isquirrel

shini44 said:


> yeh seems like the best tubes to own, thanks for the notes ^^ i wanted to know what is the the best pair of tubes to make the sound near the SS (clearly mullard + elrog) but still have the creamy detailed lush mids of a tube amp. maybe elrog + TAK274B? unless you didn't test that before, i guess we won't know?  to achieve the perfect balance between SS and Tube amp. i guess i will need all of the tubes after while XD
> 
> 
> " *fleshing out *of the mid bass area *and vocals* " the female vocals + upper mids are still lush like on tube amp? even that they are with less density on Elrog+gz34, my collection is 95% female vocals.
> ...


 
  
 To answer your questions:
  
 To achieve sound that is close to SS = *Elrog and Mullard GZ34 next best is the Takatsuki 300B and Mullard GZ34.*
  
 To achieve sound that is creamy smooth but still has incredible realism = *Elrog & Takatsuki 274B*
  
 Hard to say what affects the sound more, its the combinations = I would say with top class rectifiers that it would be equal 50/50.
  
 Dono, Tony, Matt and myself have all put a lot of time into playing around with the these tubes. If say I have a free weekend and fancy listening to EDM then its the Elrog + Mulllard or the Tak 300B + Mullard's
  
 If I plan on listening to a lot of vocal particularly well recorded female it would be ELrog + Tak 274B or Tak 300B and Tak 274B.
  
 I also change the driver tubes, mostly I use the TSRP 1940's either the 6SN7 markings for the Navy or Joint Army Navy VT-231's with either 30 or 29 marks on the bases. Some people say that the VT-231 is a better tube, rubbish, its the same tune just in different packaging. I have recently started using the C3G tubes, but mainly for vocals, blues etc, they do not give me as much bass as the 6SN7 or VT-231 variants do.
  
 I also change the amp settings, so for well recorded vocals, quieter types of music where I want to draw out as much as I can I might use the cathode plate and either low or high imprednance, produces less power than the Plate settings but produces a more refined sound capable of dragging out very fine details and changes the soundstage.
  
 I could keep going with different combinations. I am busy this afternoon, but will sit down tonight and do a post about the different sounds available using different driver tubes. In short this is why so many of us I love tubes, the guys who own SS amps are screwed as far as this is concerned, they buy it and thats the only sound they are going to get unless they EQ it etc. We have far greater options available to us. Once you understand and have experience of what different tubes will bring to the sound.


----------



## Aussie Lou

3083joe said:


> I have quad marched but 1 matched on one side and the other in same place on other side. Seemed fine with me. Also ran 2 difference plate structures 1 on each side in same place on adapter


 

 Considering that the adapters sit at an angle the "same place" on either side would that be matching the two front positions then the rear or matching pairs in the left side of the adapter and the other pair on the right?


----------



## 3083joe

aussie lou said:


> Considering that the adapters sit at an angle the "same place" on either side would that be matching the two front positions then the rear or matching pairs in the left side of the adapter and the other pair on the right?



I separate them one on each side but same place on adapter.


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> They never tell you that they have shipped. The package just arrives. :wink_face:
> Chances are they are on the way.




I've orders 3 time. (Stocking up) and have received shipping advise the same day as I ordered. Did you order from Langex?


----------



## ken6217

isquirrel said:


> To answer your questions:
> 
> To achieve sound that is close to SS = *Elrog and Mullard GZ34 next best is the Takatsuki 300B and Mullard GZ34.*
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't realize when I got a tube amp that I also needed to me a mad scientist with a tube lab.


----------



## Shini44

^ ofc amigo!! its a serious business


----------



## Torq

ken6217 said:


> I didn't realize when I got a tube amp that I also needed to me a mad scientist with a tube lab.


 

 Ain't that the truth!


----------



## 3083joe

Well i finally purchased a metal base gz32, the only rectifier i haven't tried,
 we will see how it stacks up to the TAK 274B, WE274A, and WE422


----------



## Torq

For those of you with a WA5 (or WA5LE), have any of you removed the feet to replace them with something more conducive to vibration control?
  
 If so, is it just standard threaded sockets they stock feet are mounted into?
  
 There's a rash of ways I can isolate these things, but I'd prefer it if there was a clean way to replace the feet with suitable spikes (or similar) first.
  
 And I could probably just stop listening, and yank the tubes on the power supply and have a butcher's myself, but I probably won't get to that until my new rectifiers show up on Monday!


----------



## musicman59

torq said:


> For those of you with a WA5 (or WA5LE), have any of you removed the feet to replace them with something more conducive to vibration control?
> 
> If so, is it just standard threaded sockets they stock feet are mounted into?
> 
> ...



I did replaced them on mine with ViaBlue QTC spikes but I don't remember the size of the Thread Stick size. I will try to check but if not email Jack.ni am sure he can tell you.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> I've orders 3 time. (Stocking up) and have received shipping advise the same day as I ordered. Did you order from Langex?


 
  
 Yeah. Langrex. I deal with James rather than the site contact email. So that maybe why I don't get shipping info. Everything arrives fine.


ken6217 said:


> I didn't realize when I got a tube amp that I also needed to me a mad scientist with a tube lab.


 
  
 So true.


----------



## ken6217

I order from Langex through Ebay. I received the order today that I placed on 4/7. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310653909306


----------



## TonyNewman

ken6217 said:


> I order from Langex through Ebay. I received the order today that I placed on 4/7.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310653909306


 
  
 Langrex rock. Excellent service.
  
 They might do you a better deal if you order direct. I think they have done me "12 for the price of 10" type deals in the past for PY500s - that sort of thing. Ask and they will try to accommodate you (as long as you being reasonable). It does no harm to ask.


----------



## Krutsch

musicman59 said:


> I did *replaced them on mine with ViaBlue QTC spikes *but I don't remember the size of the Thread Stick size. I will try to check but if not email Jack.ni am sure he can tell you.


 
  
 +1 ... those look really cool. I would be curious to know that, as well, assuming similar feet threading for the WA3.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Yeah. Langrex. I deal with James rather than the site contact email. So that maybe why I don't get shipping info. Everything arrives fine.
> 
> So true.


 
  
 Yea I ordered direct from their site. All I got was the paypal confirmation email. I won't worry about it unless a couple weeks go by and nothing shows up.
  
 I knew there were a lot of variety of tubes and it's all a bit daunting but I gotta say I like the results now that I have a few decent tubes. I'm glad I didn't go for SS. I feel like I have a hand crafted work of art and as long as I can feed it good tubes I have a subjectively superior experience to people that chose another route.
  
 This is probably not the same or nearly as good and I haven't played with VST plugins in quite a few years... I wonder if you could approximate the tube variations using SS + hook in a VST/AU chain before the sound hits the DAC, like Waves Arts Tube Warmer, PSP Vintage Warmer, or whatever the current crop is. I imagine the software has only gotten better with time/experience/more processing power available. Back when I played with the plugins it seemed like they still were no substitute for real hardware. Now I think a lot of people use software and in audiophile land I think people at least use software EQs.


----------



## Torq

musicman59 said:


> I did replaced them on mine with ViaBlue QTC spikes but I don't remember the size of the Thread Stick size. I will try to check but if not email Jack.ni am sure he can tell you.


 

 Thanks!
  
 I'll ping Jack and Mike and see what the threading is.  I just wasn't even sure if you could simply unscrew the existing feet without having to capture a nut on the inside first, or if there were simply threads in the chassis ... and hadn't gotten to turning the thing over to look!


----------



## jhljhl

tonynewman said:


> Langrex rock. Excellent service.
> 
> They might do you a better deal if you order direct. I think they have done me "12 for the price of 10" type deals in the past for PY500s - that sort of thing. Ask and they will try to accommodate you (as long as you being reasonable). It does no harm to ask.


 
  
 Sometimes this company ships quickly and sometimes a little slowly in my opinion. Also even if the tubes are new old stock that doesn't necessarily mean that they test so it's important to test them generally speaking.


----------



## ymc226

Very excited!! I just ordered my first headphone amp yesterday; a Woo WA5 LE in black with the upgraded internals.  Hopefully, it will ship in 2 weeks along with the Woo DAC which was ordered last week.  My headphones will be the Beyerdynamic T5p version 2 and I mostly listen to soft/classic rock, pop, blues and classical music.  No jazz, EDM but not adverse to country, R&B. 
  
 This forum has been very helpful and I thank you all for the advice and information exchanged so easily but I have a few questions.  Going through as much of the posts new and old in this very long thread, the WA22 seems to respond to tube changes in the following order driver>rectifier>power with TS RP and NU drivers getting great respect.
  
 I've also read other threads including this one on the WA5 and tubes:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/428005/wa5-le-tube-choices
  

is there a corresponding order of tube categories for the WA5-LE in the way this model responds?  Are drivers still the first tubes to upgrade?
the referenced thread was from 2009.  Are there more up to date NOS or currently produced tubes that won't break the bank that members find work well? The Taks and WE tubes I know are considered the ultimate.  Maybe in a year or so, I'll splurge but I'm looking for not cheap but moderately priced tubes to replace the factory installed ones which I've read no one especially likes. One member stated that of the 3, the factory shipped power tubes work reasonably well so should be replaced last.  Is this the general consensus?
headphones and tubes need to be broken in.  I assume the amp also needs to be broken in.  Does it make sense to use the factory tubes to break in the amp first and then use the upgraded tubes afterwards or would one just break both the new tubes and amp at the same time?
there is both a volume control on the DAC and amp.  What volume would you set the DAC volume to as I would imagine controlling the volume while listening would be via the amp volume knob?


----------



## Krutsch

ymc226 said:


> Very excited!! I just ordered *my first headphone amp yesterday; a Woo WA5* LE in black with the upgraded internals.
> ...


 
  
 Your first headphone amp is a WA5? You, sir, are winning at Head-Fi.


----------



## ken6217

ymc226 said:


> Very excited!! I just ordered my first headphone amp yesterday; a Woo WA5 LE in black with the upgraded internals.  Hopefully, it will ship in 2 weeks along with the Woo DAC which was ordered last week.  My headphones will be the Beyerdynamic T5p version 2 and I mostly listen to soft/classic rock, pop, blues and classical music.  No jazz, EDM but not adverse to country, R&B.
> 
> This forum has been very helpful and I thank you all for the advice and information exchanged so easily but I have a few questions.  Going through as much of the posts new and old in this very long thread, the WA22 seems to respond to tube changes in the following order driver>rectifier>power with TS RP and NU drivers getting great respect.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats on the new WA5-LE. I am a new owner of the same amp as of last Friday. There seems to be a rash of us.
  
 Woo states about 100-150 hours for amp breakin. Even though the amp has point to point wiring, there still are caps etc. I don't think it matters with regards to how you decide in breaking in tubes with the amp, as if you're like me you'll be switching out and trying new tubes. I guess try the factory tubes so that you get accustomed to the sound signature and then roll different tubes.
  
 With that said, I took the recommendations of switching out the rectifier tubes after a couple of days to a Brimar 5Z4GY and the difference in sound quality was truly amazing.
  
 I did however order the Tak 300B tubes and should have them in about a week. I can post how dramatic (hopefully) the change is.
  
 Everything is based on your own tastes in terms of liking a warm sound, forward sound etc and so give a listen first and then decide what sound signatures you would like to change, if any. Honestly if I didn't go nuts and buy quite a few drivers based on great recommendation here on this forum, I could live with the stock drivers and power tubes, and the Brimar rectifier tubes. Of course, all bets are off once I listen to some of the new tubes I have yet to try. 
  
 There are very knowledgeable and helpful people in this forum and so you will be in good hands!
  
 With regarding the DAC, any reason why you chose Woo Audio? As far as the volume, max out the volume control on the DAC and use the volume control on the amp.


----------



## ymc226

ken6217 said:


> Congrats on the new WA5-LE. I am a new owner of the same amp as of last Friday. There seems to be a rash of us.
> 
> Woo states about 100-150 hours for amp breakin. Even though the amp has point to point wiring, there still are caps etc. I don't think it matters with regards to how you decide in breaking in tubes with the amp, as if you're like me you'll be switching out and trying new tubes. I guess try the factory tubes so that you get accustomed to the sound signature and then roll different tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the advice.  I remember Badas stated the Brimars worked great on the WA22.  I'll get those for sure.  Rather then going for the Taks, since the Beyer HP are my first cans and are closed, I think my next audio upgrade/change for this system would be the Sennheiser HD 800S which would be open.  Hopefully, they won't disturb my wife when next to me.  I don't play my music especially loud.  
  
 In terms of the DAC, no real thought there.  It was at a price point I was comfortable with and got a few good reviews regarding value.  Rather than going full out for peak performance which I did when I was younger, I'm more happy getting more value these days.  
  
 BTW, how long from order to actual delivery did it take?  I'm in New Jersey so shipping should be only a day or so.


----------



## leftside

ymc226 said:


> Hopefully, they won't disturb my wife when next to me.  I don't play my music especially loud.


 
 Unfortunately, if your wife is next to you, then they will disturb her. I have open back headphones, but I only use them in a dedicated listening room.


----------



## ken6217

ymc226 said:


> Thanks for the advice.  I remember Badas stated the Brimars worked great on the WA22.  I'll get those for sure.  Rather then going for the Taks, since the Beyer HP are my first cans and are closed, I think my next audio upgrade/change for this system would be the Sennheiser HD 800S which would be open.  Hopefully, they won't disturb my wife when next to me.  I don't play my music especially loud.
> 
> In terms of the DAC, no real thought there.  It was at a price point I was comfortable with and got a few good reviews regarding value.  Rather than going full out for peak performance which I did when I was younger, I'm more happy getting more value these days.
> 
> BTW, how long from order to actual delivery did it take?  I'm in New Jersey so shipping should be only a day or so.


 

 I ordered the amp on a Friday and they shipped it the following Thursday. I also got the upgrades as well.
  
 It is one day shipping to NJ.


----------



## thecrow

ken6217 said:


> Congrats on the new WA5-LE. I am a new owner of the same amp as of last Friday. There seems to be a rash of us.
> 
> Woo states about 100-150 hours for amp breakin. Even though the amp has point to point wiring, there still are caps etc. I don't think it matters with regards to how you decide in breaking in tubes with the amp, as if you're like me you'll be switching out and trying new tubes. I guess try the factory tubes so that you get accustomed to the sound signature and then roll different tubes.



Dear gentlemen

Burning in of amps like the wa5 and relevant tubes can be quite a laborious process so that is why I'm offering yourselves and other similar headfiers a new FREE service

As you've stated and like *everybody* knows the wa5 needs up to 150 hours of burn in before it starts to kick in. As I'd rather have my clients, like yourself, have their new amp arrive in its peak level with no burn in needed I am willing to burn in the amp and tubes for you for absolutely no cost to you. That's right, you read it right - FREE!!!!

That's just the type of nice guy that I am. All you need to do is cover the freight of getting the amp to me and then from me to you. 

Imagine that!! Receiving the amp with the strenuous job of burn in already done for you. And I guarantee that this will take only 6-8 weeks. But be quick as only limited spaces are available for this free offer. 

I'll keep an eye out on my private messages so as to get this underway whenever you're all ready for me to do the hard lifting


----------



## MIKELAP

ymc226 said:


> ken6217 said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats on the new WA5-LE. I am a new owner of the same amp as of last Friday. There seems to be a rash of us.
> ...


 
 You have a happy marriage ,you want to keep it that way get a room lol.My wife for example is in the living room im in a closed room 10 feet away  and it disturbs her enough for her to come over and close my door either that or she wear her HP. .Enjoy


----------



## ymc226

mikelap said:


> You have a happy marriage ,you want to keep it that way get a room lol.My wife for example is in the living room im in a closed room 10 feet away  and it disturbs her enough for her to come over and close my door either that or she wear her HP. .Enjoy


 

 I was concerned about the potential noise emanating from the headphones and you and Leftside confirm this.  Also still struggling about where I should set up this system; either in a dedicated listening room where I'm less apt to go (out of habit) and which would engender a better listening experience or next to the bed on the nightstand (which can accommodate the amp, DAC, and laptop source).  
  
 I'm starting to lean toward the ground floor library but would have a more isolating effect overall regarding wife and kids.  I hope they understand
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Fortunately, the Mac Mini which I am using as the source is in the same room.  Currently, there is a TOSLINK mini plug attached going to a Schiit Bifrost DAC via optical cable which then outputs to powered speakers.  
  
 Being new to digital music in general (mostly used to the old RCA style connections in the 1980/90s), can I leave the TOSLINK plug connected to the Bitfrost (so the external speakers can still be used), attach a USB 2 A to B cable to the DAC and set the Mac to output to the USB output->Woo DAC?  
  
 I got the idea from this link using the audio MIDI utility on Mac OS:  http://www.hifizine.com/2012/06/computer-audio-on-the-mac-getting-started/


----------



## ken6217

thecrow said:


> Dear gentlemen
> 
> Burning in of amps like the wa5 and relevant tubes can be quite a laborious process so that is why I'm offering yourselves and other similar headfiers a new FREE service
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you. A true friend! Give me your address so I can send you my amp. Also please let me know if you need me to send you a case of beer to help you through the arduous and tedious process.


----------



## thecrow

ken6217 said:


> Thank you. A true friend! Give me your address so I can send you my amp. Also please let me know if you need me to send you a case of beer to help you through the arduous and tedious process.


Lol

No. I don't drink on the job.


----------



## musicman59

torq said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'll ping Jack and Mike and see what the threading is.  I just wasn't even sure if you could simply unscrew the existing feet without having to capture a nut on the inside first, or if there were simply threads in the chassis ... and hadn't gotten to turning the thing over to look!




Unless they have changed the design since mine the stock footers have to screws each. One screws against the threaded hole in the bottom plate but the other goes through the plate and has a nut in the inside so you will have to remove the bottom plate to remove them.

The ViaBlue spikes just screw into the the threaded hole in the bottom plate.


----------



## Torq

musicman59 said:


> Unless they have changed the design since mine the stock footers have to screws each. One screws against the threaded hole in the bottom plate but the other goes through the plate and has a nut in the inside so you will have to remove the bottom plate to remove them.
> 
> The ViaBlue spikes just screw into the the threaded hole in the bottom plate.


 

 Okay, thanks ... I'll work on the assumption that I have to take the bottoms off.


----------



## reeltime

ymc226 said:


> Very excited!! I just ordered my first headphone amp yesterday; a Woo WA5 LE in black with the upgraded internals.  Hopefully, it will ship in 2 weeks along with the Woo DAC which was ordered last week.  My headphones will be the Beyerdynamic T5p version 2 and I mostly listen to soft/classic rock, pop, blues and classical music.  No jazz, EDM but not adverse to country, R&B.
> 
> This forum has been very helpful and I thank you all for the advice and information exchanged so easily but I have a few questions.  Going through as much of the posts new and old in this very long thread, the WA22 seems to respond to tube changes in the following order driver>rectifier>power with TS RP and NU drivers getting great respect.
> 
> ...


 

 1) I'd do the 300B power tube and rectifiers first.  Drivers last.  I don't think the drivers make a massive change, while the 300Bs and rectifiers have a greater impact on sound, in my opinion.  
  
 2) These won't break the bank, but will sting appropriately:  EML 300B and 5U4G.  I had the mesh versions for several years.  Solid reliability, excellent sound.  
  
 You can always step up.  I got good resale value out of the EMLs too, when I did jump to the Elrogs.  EML stands for Emission Labs.  Research away.
  
 3) I'd buy the tubes you want, when you want them, and listen as you wish.  The amp will break in on its own.  Don't do marathon listening sessions trying to get to a mystery magical number.  Just enjoy your new purchase.  I try not to run my tube amps longer than 6 hours.  Usually 4 is about all I'm down for anyway.  And allow the tubes to fully cool (4 hours-ish) before turning it back on.  
  
 4) See if there isn't a line output mode setting on your DAC.  Sometimes there's a "hold this button down while pushing that button" sequence that will trip the DAC into line output mode.  All Chord amps have this ability, and my old Wyred4Sound DAC 2 had a line out mode which could be set from the menu.  It's usually not 100% volume, but every device is different.  Some examples: Wyred4Sound: Line Out = 60.  Chord = Teal.  AK devices = full volume.


----------



## ken6217

In my short experience, drivers make a big difference. I don't mean from good to really good. I mean from I don't like this amp to I really like this amp. The rectifiers more so. I haven't rolled the 300B's yet and so I can't comment on that. 

Changing tubes make such a major difference that I wondering if being left with the option of a so so amp and great tubes, or a great amp or so so tubes, would the former sound better than the latter.


----------



## ymc226

reeltime said:


> 1) I'd do the 300B power tube and rectifiers first.  Drivers last.  I don't think the drivers make a massive change, while the 300Bs and rectifiers have a greater impact on sound, in my opinion.
> 
> 2) These won't break the bank, but will sting appropriately:  EML 300B and 5U4G.  I had the mesh versions for several years.  Solid reliability, excellent sound.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Realtime.  I'll look into the EML tubes.  Regarding times, I rarely have time to listen too long but will not leave the amp on to break it in.  
  
 I see your from Southern California.  Am planning on moving back in a few years to the Santa Monica/Palisades/Brentwood area.  When I grew up in the 80s there weren't many hifi shops around.  Where do you go to listen to tubes/high end audio?


----------



## reeltime

ken6217 said:


> In my short experience, drivers make a big difference. I don't mean from good to really good. I mean from I don't like this amp to I really like this amp. The rectifiers more so. I haven't rolled the 300B's yet and so I can't comment on that.
> 
> Changing tubes make such a major difference that I wondering if being left with the option of a so so amp and great tubes, or a great amp or so so tubes, would the former sound better than the latter.


 

 It's not all about finding a great 300B, a great driver, or a great rectifier either.  There's a synergy that comes from matching the amp with the right tubes (and HEADPHONE!), and not all tubes pair together well.  My EML 300Bs were horrible with the PSVANE CV-181 T2 drivers (actually annoying), but were terrific with brown base Sylvania 6SN7s and better with black base RCA 6SN7s.  But the PSVANE sounded better with the Elrog (though in truth I still hated the overpriced driver).  Are the Sylvania or PSVANE bad tubes?  Probably not, but neither worked with the other tubes I had in the amp.  It's a match game of sonics and finding balance.
  
 I think the 300B is the biggest change overall.  Rectifiers 2nd.  Drivers 3rd.  Again, my opinion.  The drivers are the cheapest of the three to play with and exchange, for certain.  
  
 I sat with the EMLs for years before going Elrog.  The EMLs sound great and the Elrogs were an improvement, but not like "Whoa, I got a whole new amp!"  They changed the bass and the soundstage, but nothing earth shattering.  Even jumping back to the PSVANE 300B (see the blown up Elrog story) hasn't been a massive downturn in sound.  The amp sounds a bit smaller and the dynamics aren't as stunning-- but the WA5LE is still very listenable, and an big jump from listening right out of the Chord Hugo TT.
  
  Most important is to have fun and enjoy the music.  Try not to get too caught up in finding another 4% improvement (we all do it).


----------



## reeltime

ymc226 said:


> Thanks Realtime.  I'll look into the EML tubes.  Regarding times, I rarely have time to listen too long but will not leave the amp on to break it in.
> 
> I see your from Southern California.  Am planning on moving back in a few years to the Santa Monica/Palisades/Brentwood area.  When I grew up in the 80s there weren't many hifi shops around.  Where do you go to listen to tubes/high end audio?


 

 You just missed CanJam Los Angeles.  That's the best time to listen.  Go to T.H.E. Audio Show in June.  There's some headphone listening there.  
  
 In Santa Monica definitely check out Optimal Enchantment.  Super high-end gear.  But not great for Head-Fiers.  Leave your wallet at home.  The place is mega-expensive.
  
 We're kind of out of luck for headphones in LA.  Unless someone is holding out on me.  (FESS UP!  You know who you are...)
  
 I haven't been here, but a quick search revealed:
  
*Shelley's Stereo*  *22102 Clarendon St.*
*Woodland Hills, CA 94109*
*U.S.A.*

 *Email: wes@shelleysstereo.com*
  
*Tel: +1 (818) 716-8500*
  
  
 Web:  www.shelleysstereo.com


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Dear gentlemen
> 
> Burning in of amps like the wa5 and relevant tubes can be quite a laborious process so that is why I'm offering yourselves and other similar headfiers a new FREE service
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is a great post. One of the best this year. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does that amazingly friendly service extend to the WA234 as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





ken6217 said:


> In my short experience, drivers make a big difference. I don't mean from good to really good. I mean from I don't like this amp to I really like this amp. The rectifiers more so. I haven't rolled the 300B's yet and so I can't comment on that.
> 
> Changing tubes make such a major difference that I wondering if being left with the option of a so so amp and great tubes, or a great amp or so so tubes, would the former sound better than the latter.


 
  
 Stock tubes are only good for burning in the amp. Not much more. I suppose the 300B's will make good emergency backups.
  
 I've often thought that a fully tube kitted out WA5 would be better than a stock WA234. However I have been told that is not the case. Even a stock WA234 is evidently spectacular.
 However 9 times out of 10 I think your analogy would be correct. Top tubes good amp will beat a good amp and stock tubes.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Stock tubes are only good for burning in the amp. Not much more. I suppose the 300B's will make good emergency backups.


 
  
 When I bought my first WA5LE it came with ShuGuang tubes.  These were as you wrote, good for burn in only. 
  
 But with the WA5LE v2, Woo changed to PSVANE 300Bs and rectifiers as their stock supplier, and the improvement with these tubes is substantial over the ShuGuang.  The amp is now decent out of the box.


----------



## leftside

ken6217 said:


> In my short experience, drivers make a big difference. I don't mean from good to really good. I mean from I don't like this amp to I really like this amp. The rectifiers more so. I haven't rolled the 300B's yet and so I can't comment on that.
> 
> Changing tubes make such a major difference that I wondering if being left with the option of a so so amp and great tubes, or a great amp or so so tubes, would the former sound better than the latter.


 

 Different experience to what I've had with the WA22. Once I got to a certain price point (around $200/pair of drivers or power, or $200 for a single rectifier) I found the the differences to be rather subtle in most cases with more expensive tubes.


----------



## ken6217

leftside said:


> Different experience to what I've had with the WA22. Once I got to a certain price point (around $200/pair of drivers or power, or $200 for a single rectifier) I found the the differences to be rather subtle in most cases with more expensive tubes.


 

 Small sample size of course for me. The rectifier change was major. The amp went from boring to dynamic. There were changes went switching out the drivers but not as much. Note though that the rectifier tube that I used is highly regarded. The 300B tube and I am currently using is stock.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> Small sample size of course for me. The rectifier change was major. The amp went from boring to dynamic. There were changes went switching out the drivers but not as much. Note though that the rectifier tube that I used is highly regarded. The 300B tube and I am currently using is stock.


 
  
 My approach is to get very good/great rectifier and power tubes then tweak the sound from there with driver tubes. I pick tweaking with driver tubes as there are just so many options.
  
 I'm finishing work early today. Yay. First time in a while. I'm going to give the NU 6F8G driver tubes a run. It has been a while since I have listened to them. I've kinda been addicted to the Tung-Sol round plates.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> My approach is to get very good/great rectifier and power tubes then tweak the sound from there with driver tubes. I pick tweaking with driver tubes as there are just so many options.


 
 Yes! The tweaking with different drivers has been a lot of fun on the WA22   My favorites are the ECC33's and ECC35's. Seems like there are bigger differences in sound with different tubes on the WA5 though.


----------



## leftside

For $650 you can get a great "bang for the buck" set of tubes for the WA22. For that price my picks would be the Valvo GZ34, Tung-Sol 5998 and something like Brimar CV1988 6SN7GTY, RCA 5692 Red Base or 1940's Sylvania VT-231/6SN7GT. Heck, I've even had good results with a $35 pair of Tung-Sol GTB Tall Boy.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> That is a great post. One of the best this year.  Does that amazingly friendly service extend to the WA234 as well.




Not usually. But for headfiers I am able to include the wa234 in that service. 

I also recommend that for someone who has already made that investment into the wa234 that they have me come over to their country to examine their amp before it ships to my testing and burn in laboratory centre. I always find that useful in many ways. 

And the good thing is that with the cost that the wa234 has that the cost of flying me over and covering my accommodation for 3 nights is a very small amount relative to the amp. 

Not to mention that the wa234 needs 450 hours of burn in that YOU won't need to undertake. It's all done for you. 

And before you ask badas I currently not franchising this business out.


----------



## ken6217

Just tried these 6C8G and I have never heard music coming out of my headphones like this before. The soundstage and the treble is amazing. I had always associated treble with being bright and grating. Not here.
  
 I certainly got a lot of gunk of the pins when I cleaned them.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Looking great Ken. Obviously sounding great also.
  
 Yeah you would have got a lot of gunk off. Those boxes have degraded a lot. A lot of them drop crap over the pins.
  
 So you are running Brimar 5Z4GY's, NU 6C8G's and Psvane 300B's. I think you will be getting near the top sound. Probably only little gains now. So what do you think of your tube amp? Worth the investment (time and $$'s)?


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Looking great Ken. Obviously sounding great also.
> 
> ...


 
 Don't forget, I got the Tak 300B's coming next week. Thats should take it to a new level,
  
 It's definitely worth the time and money. The wallet is getting thinner though.


----------



## 3083joe

Have a metal base gz34 coming tomorrow 
Will do a side by side comparison with the tak274B


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> Have a metal base gz34 coming tomorrow
> Will do a side by side comparison with the tak274B




Looking forward to that.


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> Have a metal base gz34 coming tomorrow
> Will do a side by side comparison with the tak274B


 
 I'm betting the Tak will win  The metal base GZ34 is in my top 3 for sure, but I very slightly prefer the WE 274A, and you prefer the Tak 274B to the WE 274A 
  
 I should have a pair of Osram B65's arriving next week. I doubt they are going to beat the ECC33's or ECC35's, but should be nice to try.


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> I'm betting the Tak will win  The metal base GZ34 is in my top 3 for sure, but I very slightly prefer the WE 274A, and you prefer the Tak 274B to the WE 274A
> 
> I should have a pair of Osram B65's arriving next week. I doubt they are going to beat the ECC33's or ECC35's, but should be nice to try.



Man. You are going hard just like I did at first. Needed a backup rectifier as all I have now is the tak


----------



## 3083joe

Sennheiser hd800 S will be here tomorrow. Excited!!!


----------



## Leotis

You Woo people are a passionate crowd.
 2500 pages! Dang!
 For a newcomer it is a little difficult to extract the pearls of wisdom from such an extensive discussion.
 So I got into the game with a WA5 and am pretty thrilled by the sound.
 Got carried away and ordered the TA-300B, The Sophia Princess 274B and the Sylvania VT231.
 But it sounds pretty wonderful to me with just the stock tubes.
 Wanted to say Woo is a great company to work with.
 They have patiently gone out of their way to accommodate various of my non standard requests.
 Wondering if there is a consensus on moderately prices speakers that work well with the WA5.
 Forgive me if I'm too lazy to read 2500 pages to see what has already been said.
 I've been looking at Zu, Omega and Tekton.
 Thanks for any advice.


----------



## phase0

leotis said:


> You Woo people are a passionate crowd.
> 2500 pages! Dang!
> For a newcomer it is a little difficult to extract the pearls of wisdom from such an extensive discussion.
> So I got into the game with a WA5 and am pretty thrilled by the sound.
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the club! BTW the WA5 was my first head-fi amp too (someone a couple pages back mentioned the same for them)... Woo has been great to me. Both jack and Mike have been really responsive and offered useful suggestions. I have a pair of GoldenEar Triton 3 speakers in my living room. It's been a while since I tried, but they ran fine from the WA5 and sounded great! IIRC you should be looking for speakers that have around or over 94db sensitivity at 8 ohm.


----------



## Leotis

Thanks for the reply.
 Tried it with a couple of 91 dB Def Techs I had hanging around.
 CLR 2002 are nothing special but they sounded pretty sweet with the tube feed.
 The wife likes it better than the pretty expensive solid state setup I have.
 Still, would need something much better than the Def Techs to compete successfully with the Abyss for air time.


----------



## reeltime

leotis said:


> You Woo people are a passionate crowd.
> 2500 pages! Dang!
> For a newcomer it is a little difficult to extract the pearls of wisdom from such an extensive discussion.
> So I got into the game with a WA5 and am pretty thrilled by the sound.
> ...


 
  
 If I didn't already have thousands in Genelecs, I'd be looking hard at the KEF LS50.


----------



## Leotis

Looks like a highly regarded speaker but only has 85 dB sensitivity.


----------



## Shini44

ken6217 said:


> Don't forget, I got the Tak 300B's coming next week. Thats should take it to a new level,
> 
> It's definitely worth the time and money. The wallet is getting thinner though.


 
 oh i wonder how will it sound with your Brimar 5Z4GY which is quite dynamic, it might be a good alternative for people who can't find GZ metal base, looking forward for the comparison. i assume it will be a nice mix between dynamic fast sound and nice lush detailed sound from the TAK.
  


3083joe said:


> Have a metal base gz34 coming tomorrow
> Will do a side by side comparison with the tak274B


 
 keep us updated amigo


----------



## versace

I am still running a Sophia 274b with my HEK's still wondering if i should get the brimar or just go all the way with a TAK. (or just try out the gz34)


----------



## joseph69

versace said:


> I am still running a Sophia 274b with my HEK's still wondering if i should get the brimar or just go all the way with a TAK. (or just try out the gz34)


 
 For the price of the Brimar, why wouldn't you just to have it?


----------



## leftside

joseph69 said:


> For the price of the Brimar, why wouldn't you just to have it?


 

 Indeed. Try that one first. I quite like the Sophia 274b. I've got one of the Brimar's on order myself.
  
 I have a Valvo/Philips 1958 black base GZ34 and that sounds superb. Will have to do more comparisons to the metal base, but I can't remember hearing too many differences. Also got on order a Triotron GZ34 brown base. Both are much cheaper than the metal base and I'd argue at this price point ($200 - $250) they are your best bang for the buck rectifiers for the WA22 (haven't tried the Brimar yet). Got the Brimar for $30.


----------



## versace

good point fellas i'll just order one!


----------



## abvolt

I'd agree the brimar for it's price point will be hard to beat, simply a great sounding tube..Enjoy


----------



## Bitten by Bug

abvolt said:


> I'd agree the brimar for it's price point will be hard to beat, simply a great sounding tube..Enjoy


 

 +1


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Is the cat out of the bag?  Anyone hear what the two new products are at the Chicago show? 
  
 "One of the new products will be the world's first battery operated all-tubes (not hybrid) headphone amplifier with DAC. The other two new products you'll have to stop by to learn more. We're not letting the cat out of the bag..". 
  
http://www.axpona.com/exhibitors_detail.asp?ID=17105


----------



## Clayton SF

I spent a lazy afternoon with L.


----------



## phase0

bitten by bug said:


> Is the cat out of the bag?  Anyone hear what the two new products are at the Chicago show?
> 
> "One of the new products will be the world's first battery operated all-tubes (not hybrid) headphone amplifier with DAC. The other two new products you'll have to stop by to learn more. We're not letting the cat out of the bag..".
> 
> http://www.axpona.com/exhibitors_detail.asp?ID=17105


 

 Time to hide my wallet.


----------



## Khragon

Who (will) let the cats out? Full day already and no one posted anything?


----------



## Badas

clayton sf said:


> I spent a lazy afternoon with L.




A good way to spend the afternoon.


----------



## Xyfas

Good day folks. Would you guys say that that WA5-LE have the same sound signature as the WA7+TP? I have HE1000 and was looking for a little more power. I have and love my WA7+tp. I assume that the WA5-LE has the same signature only louder/better? I'm thinking of getting either the Violectric V281, McIntosh MHA100, or the WA5-LE. Also, I'm asking coz theres now way for me to test these since I have to travel out of country to do so.
  
 TIA


----------



## Badas

xyfas said:


> Good day folks. Would you guys say that that WA5-LE have the same sound signature as the WA7+TP? I have HE1000 and was looking for a little more power. I have and love my WA7+tp. I assume that the WA5-LE has the same signature only louder/better? I'm thinking of getting either the Violectric V281, McIntosh MHA100, or the WA5-LE. Also, I'm asking coz theres now way for me to test these since I have to travel out of country to do so.
> 
> TIA




No. The WA5 is different. As you go up the Woo line things improve. In particular soundstage, treble detail and bass rendering. I've listen to most models and it is clear that there is just more of everything as you advance.

With the right tubes the HE1K will sound fantastic in the WA5. Also fairly sure the V281 will as well. I was just listening to that today using the HE-6. Stunning amp. All detail with a nice warm tint.


----------



## Xyfas

Do you find the WA22 enough for HE1000?


----------



## Badas

xyfas said:


> Do you find the WA22 enough for HE1000?




Sorry. I can't answer that. Maybe someone else can? I don't have the HE1K.


----------



## ken6217

I have both the V281, WA5 LE, and HE-1000's. 
  
 I can tell you the V281 is probably the best solid state amp out there. The only tube amp I have even owned is the WA5-LE and so I can't compare it to another tube amp. Both of my amps sound great but of course different and they each drive the HE-1000 with no problem.
  
  With the V281of course you don't have to play around with tubes to experiment to get the sound you are looking for. I do like that aspect though. As Badas said to me. Do you want your WA5 to sound like your V281? No.


----------



## zeissiez

xyfas said:


> Good day folks. Would you guys say that that WA5-LE have the same sound signature as the WA7+TP? I have HE1000 and was looking for a little more power. I have and love my WA7+tp. I assume that the WA5-LE has the same signature only louder/better? I'm thinking of getting either the Violectric V281, McIntosh MHA100, or the WA5-LE. Also, I'm asking coz theres now way for me to test these since I have to travel out of country to do so.
> 
> TIA




The WA5-LE sounds much bigger than WA7+tp, bigger images, more holographic soundstage, thicker tone, more air between instruments, there's no comparison, WA5-LE is much superior


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Hey guys and gals. From reading this thread I keep getting an impression of a possible semi reasonably close to end game status regarding the TA-274B when utilized in WA22.  Does anyone have experience with how this performs in the WA6SE? Or the WA6?  At this juncture I am firmly in the WA6 and WA6SE land - (damn, I have multiple 2/3s of rolling candidates of the WA22 already in my inventory - eek! my wallet is having a panic attack, same for the WA5s - just need power valves to complete the roll - no, no, no.  Mr. Bug only has one set of ears, does not need 4th headphone AMP (right))
  
 Any experience on the the TA-274B and WA6SE/WA6 welcomed.  Thanks in advance.
  
 Cheers, Bug


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Hey guys and gals. From reading this thread I keep getting an impression of a possible semi reasonably close to end game status regarding the TA-274B when utilized in WA22.  Does anyone have experience with how this performs in the WA6SE? Or the WA6?  At this juncture I am firmly in the WA6 and WA6SE land - (damn, I have multiple 2/3s of rolling candidates of the WA22 already in my inventory - eek! my wallet is having a panic attack, same for the WA5s - just need power valves to complete the roll - no, no, no.  Mr. Bug only has one set of ears, does not need 4th headphone AMP (right))
> 
> Any experience on the the TA-274B and WA6SE/WA6 welcomed.  Thanks in advance.
> 
> Cheers, Bug




Tony uses a TAK274B and NU 6C8g's in the WA6. He says it's awesome.


----------



## pippen99

I am the second owner of a WA5.  I've had it about three months now.  My tube setup is SERP 300B, SE 274B and Sylvania 6SN7GT NOS.  I am pleased with the sound and plan not to go down the tube rolling rathole though I am glad there are people out there who do it.  I had to replace the SERP when I received the amp.  Fortunately they were still under warranty.  That situation made me painfully aware of the limitations of the stock Shuguang tubes.  Besides the SERP problem the Shuguang drivers were DOA.  So the point of all this is to find reasonably priced backups so the amp is usable until I can make a decision on a first line replacement.  I have purchased a pair of Kenrad 6SN7GT to backup the Sylvanias,  Last night after spending a few hours in the Dubstep rectifier thread I ordered a pair of Brimar 5Z4GY from Langrex.  I used the Ebay store since I had some Ebay Bucks I needed to use by May 2.  Now I need a backup to the SERP.  I can get a pair of matched  Genalex Gold Lion PX300B for $225 shipped.  Remember these would be a backup until I decide on real replacement.  Comments and alternatives welcomed.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Tony uses a TAK274B and NU 6C8g's in the WA6. He says it's awesome.


 

 Thank you for the response on a WA6 application/combo.
  
 Still wondering about any experiences with the 6SE and TAK274B. 
  
 Sadly I am not having any luck finding specific 6C8G > 6DE7 adapters. 6F8G > 6DE7 adapters are available. I wonder if these are appropriate?  Don't want to make a bad guess. Frying electronics are not my favorite aroma!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Can always procure 6C8G > 6SN7 and stack on the 6SN7 > 6DE7 adapter set already in-house. May not be elegant, but that is ok.
  
 Also I have run across some references about a Glenn as a source for adapters and amps, but as yet have not located a URL...?
  
 Edit:  PS The Absence  >  Melody Gardot arrived, and I understand! Thanks for mentioning a few times!


----------



## 3083joe

xyfas said:


> Good day folks. Would you guys say that that WA5-LE have the same sound signature as the WA7+TP? I have HE1000 and was looking for a little more power. I have and love my WA7+tp. I assume that the WA5-LE has the same signature only louder/better? I'm thinking of getting either the Violectric V281, McIntosh MHA100, or the WA5-LE. Also, I'm asking coz theres now way for me to test these since I have to travel out of country to do so.
> 
> TIA



I've heard great things about wa5 but if I was to do it again I'd probably go v281


----------



## MIKELAP

bitten by bug said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > Tony uses a TAK274B and NU 6C8g's in the WA6. He says it's awesome.
> ...


 
 6C8G and 6F8G are similar tubes they use the same adapter  to pm Glenn   http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn                                  and link to ebay seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6F8G-TO-6DE7-tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket-/191654801070?hash=item2c9f842eae:g:dokAAOSwjVVVwug6


----------



## 3083joe

bitten by bug said:


> Thank you for the response on a WA6 application/combo.
> 
> Still wondering about any experiences with the 6SE and TAK274B.
> 
> ...



Glenn can make those adapters and tak is the best I've hear hands down to every other rectifier. Including we274A we422 and gz34 metal.


----------



## Krutsch

clayton sf said:


> I spent a lazy afternoon with L.


 

 Test driving or buying? Everything I've read about the WA8 makes me want one for travel, despite the weight and battery life.
  
 As usual, you are winning at Head-Fi ...


----------



## Bitten by Bug

mikelap said:


> 6C8G and 6F8G are similar tubes they use the same adapter  to pm Glenn   http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn                                  and link to ebay seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6F8G-TO-6DE7-tube-adapter-CMC-Ceramic-socket-/191654801070?hash=item2c9f842eae:g:dokAAOSwjVVVwug6


 
  
 Thank you Mike!  I thought that was the case, but was not sure.  Thank you for the confirmation.  And thank you for the links.  I have other adapters from the same ebay vendor and am pleased with them.
  
  


3083joe said:


> Glenn can make those adapters and tak is the best I've hear hands down to every other rectifier. Including we274A we422 and gz34 metal.


 
  
 Thank you for the info.  I have been so enjoying a fat base gz34 that I have been considering going to the metal gz34, but with all the reports on tak being so glowing,might as well skip some of the middle steps towards the end game.  Ha Ha.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

krutsch said:


> Test driving or buying? Everything I've read about the WA8 makes me want one for travel, despite the weight and battery life.
> 
> As usual, you are winning at Head-Fi ...


 

 I got to visit with some at the SoCal CanJam, as a matter of fact, that was the main reason I went, and found them to be very sweet.


----------



## Clayton SF

krutsch said:


> Test driving or buying? Everything I've read about the WA8 makes me want one for travel, despite the weight and battery life.
> As usual, you are winning at Head-Fi ...


 
  
 Test driving. I need to know if the rechargeable battery is user replaceable or will I have to send it back to Woo Audio in a few years to have it replaced.
  
 I noticed this on their website: _Woo Audio’s epic WA8 Eclipse is the world's first battery-operated vacuum tube headphone amplifier. _So if it is the first battery-operated vacuum tube headphone amp, then they are setting the standards for battery life.


----------



## ken6217

Idk about that. ALO has had battery operated tube amplifiers for awhile.


----------



## versace

xyfas said:


> Do you find the WA22 enough for HE1000?


 
 Hey mate, i am currently running the HEK and a WA22! I can say that it is wonderful with enough power to spare, as well with the almost unlimited tube rolling options (thank you to everyone in the thread trying out all of these tubes and testing!!)


----------



## 3083joe

I have to say that the tak puts the metal gz34 to shame. Sorry but it's so much faster, cleaner, clearer and holographic. 
Taks are plain amazing!!!! 
At least with my setup.


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> I have to say that the tak puts the metal gz34 to shame. Sorry but it's so much faster, cleaner, clearer and holographic.
> Taks are plain amazing!!!!
> At least with my setup.




Yea, but outside of that, how do you like them.


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> Yea, but outside of that, how do you like them.



After the tak the metal is just to laid back or darker.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> I have to say that the tak puts the metal gz34 to shame. Sorry but it's so much faster, cleaner, clearer and holographic.
> Taks are plain amazing!!!!
> At least with my setup.


 

 Ya, but can you do this with them:


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I have to say that the tak puts the metal gz34 to shame. Sorry but it's so much faster, cleaner, clearer and holographic.
> Taks are plain amazing!!!!
> At least with my setup.


 

 Interesting. Thanks.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Interesting. Thanks.



For me there is nothing that comes close except we274A and they cost 30% more! 
The best if you want a great rectifier for half the price of the tak got with a we422. Best bang for the buck. 350-450


----------



## 3083joe

Excited. New TT will be here next Tuesday!!!


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> For me there is nothing that comes close except we274A and they cost 30% more!
> The best if you want a great rectifier for half the price of the tak got with a we422. Best bang for the buck. 350-450


 
 To be clear and totally honest, from everything I have read and heard I would absolutely purchase the Takatsuki  274b and 300b above all others (site unheard) if I was in the market for these type of tubes.
  
 I can subjectively surmise that they are that good!


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Excited. New TT will be here next Tuesday!!!


 

 TurnTable or Hugo TT DAC?


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> TurnTable or Hugo TT DAC?



Sorry turntable. 
I have switch to completely analogue. Works best for me.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Sorry turntable.
> I have switch to completely analogue. Works best for me.


 

 Cool!  What are you getting?


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> After the tak the metal is just to laid back or darker.


 

 I was being facetious.


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Cool!  What are you getting?



Clearaudio performance DC with magnify tonearm sticking with my Dynavector Karat 17D3 cartridge


----------



## leftside

You're going to notice a difference in sound with that TT setup. I still prefer the sound of vinyl over digital (though I have some very nice sounding DSD files and SACD's). Next will be another phone pre for you...


----------



## leftside

I'm going to have to compare my metal base GZ34's to the WE 274A again. I couldn't remember too much of a difference last time, but I'll give it another go.


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Sorry turntable.
> I have switch to completely analogue. Works best for me.


 

 Interesting. I unboxed by 30 year-old Thorens TD 166 Mk II and upgraded some parts and the cartridge and have been living the vinyl life, so to speak.
  
 I have a nice collection from the 70s and 80s that have limited plays (I used to play once, then again to record to tape and then store in nice jackets). In particular, I bought the entire Led Zeppelin catalog on audiophile pressings from Japan in '85 that sound unbelievable. I am listening to Led Zepp II as I type this and it kills the new remasters at 96/24 from HD Tracks.
  
 I discovered two things:
  
 1. My Woo WA3 is a far better amp for vinyl playback than anything else I have; and I had to go back to favorite tube combos to really enjoy it - with vinyl, the small differences in sound with different tubes were amplified, so to speak, and I ended up back to my Western Electric 421a and Siemens CCa (the ultimate combo for the WA3, IMO);
  
 2. My HD-650s really sounded best with vinyl, by a wide margin (again, given my non-TOTL equipment).
  
 Then, after a few of weeks of that, I went back to my digital playback chain with the Bryston BDP-1 into the Rega DAC. With classical music, for example, the clarity and detail was really appreciated. Classical music and vinyl doesn't work for me - the surface noise drives me crazy. For anything like Rock/Pop, however, I really missed the sound of the vinyl chain.
  
 On a lark, I bought the 45 rpm version of Jeff Beck's "Blow By Blow", one of my favorite albums, and it was like I'd never heard a kick drum before, it was just unbelievable to hear. So, yeah, I am a believer in the vinyl experience.


----------



## thecrow

krutsch said:


> Interesting. I unboxed by 30 year-old Thorens TD 166 Mk II and upgraded some parts and the cartridge and have been living the vinyl life, so to speak.
> 
> I have a nice collection from the 70s and 80s that have limited plays (I used to play once, then again to record to tape and then store in nice jackets). In particular, I bought the entire Led Zeppelin catalog on audiophile pressings from Japan in '85 that sound unbelievable. I am listening to Led Zepp II as I type this and it kills the new remasters at 96/24 from HD Tracks.
> 
> ...


Great post. Very romantic. 
You had me smiling just reading it. 

You had me at "I unboxed by 30 year-old Thorens TD 166 Mk II"


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Glenn can make those adapters and tak is the best I've hear hands down to every other rectifier. Including we274A we422 and gz34 metal.


 

 I haven't tried the tak but I still enjoy the metal gz34 almost as much as the we274. It doesn't resolve as well but I like the liquid midrange.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> I haven't tried the tak but I still enjoy the metal gz34 almost as much as the we274. It doesn't resolve as well but I like the liquid midrange.



I wasn't impressed with mids, what cans are you using?


----------



## phase0

Got my Brimar 5Z4GY From Langrex today. That was one week to ship international so I'd consider that fast. I'm listening to some music I'm hearing first time so IDK over all or haven't tried to compare with Mullard GZ32, but this sounds pretty good to me.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> Got my Brimar 5Z4GY From Langrex today. That was one week to ship international so I'd consider that fast. I'm listening to some music I'm hearing first time so IDK over all or haven't tried to compare with Mullard GZ32, but this sounds pretty good to me.


 
 Langrex ships exceptionally fast to the states, I've always received my orders within 1 week.
 You'll have to give it plenty of burn-in time before any comparisons, as I'm sure you know.
 Of all the rectifier tubes I own, you can't beat the price/performance ratio as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## ymc226

What is the general consensus on Emission Labs tubes, specifically the 300B XLR and 5U4G? They sure are beautiful.


----------



## isquirrel

EML used to have issues, since about 2-3 years now they have evolved into a really solid tube, they have the biggest range, I am not sure if you can use the higher power variant of the 300B as the Woo may not be able to auto bias, something to check with Woo directly.
  
 EML now have a 5 year warranty on all of their tubes which is the best around. They are also reasonably priced and I have noticed the quality (build and SQ) of them has improved a lot over the past 2-3 years. They also offer mesh versions of the above tubes. I deal with Jac from Jac Music http://www.jacmusic.com. Suggest you speak with him, he usually answers the phone unless he is travelling and he has so much knowledge and is familiar with Woo amps. 
  
 Re the Mesh vs the Plate choices, I have tried both and generally prefer the plate versions. In summary you can't go wrong. They are not a Takatsuki or Western Electric, however they are priced accordingly and with a long warranty should you have problems.


----------



## phase0

joseph69 said:


> Langrex ships exceptionally fast to the states, I've always received my orders within 1 week.
> You'll have to give it plenty of burn-in time before any comparisons, as I'm sure you know.
> Of all the rectifier tubes I own, you can't beat the price/performance ratio as far as I'm concerned.


 
  
 OMG. Even with no break in. Everything sounds amazing. Go WA5!
  




  
 Got the jams. Time to get up and dance (and not get so lost that you accidentally get wrapped up in the headphone cable, trip, fall, break tubes and headphones and bleed everywhere unless it was for youtube).


----------



## phase0

ymc226 said:


> What is the general consensus on Emission Labs tubes, specifically the 300B XLR and 5U4G? They sure are beautiful.


 
  
 I just got the EML 300B about a month or month and a half ago... So far I like em. EML 300B / XLS are listed as compatible with the WA5 at least. As recent discussion goes, some people are just jumping to the Taks as considered the best. Someone should try the new Elrogs too and find out if those are solid in the WA5 now too.


----------



## isquirrel

phase0 said:


> OMG. Even with no break in. Everything sounds amazing. Go WA5!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


phase0 said:


> OMG. Even with no break in. Everything sounds amazing. Go WA5!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congratulations, would love to see some pics, when you can tear yourself away from listening !!


----------



## phase0

isquirrel said:


> Congratulations, would love to see some pics, when you can tear yourself away from listening !!


 
  
 I have a stand coming. It just shipped today...
  

  

  
 This video is super cheesy but whatever I'm excited. I had lots of caffeine today too!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTb6xkKCscM


----------



## isquirrel

phase0 said:


> I just got the EML 300B about a month or month and a half ago... So far I like em. EML 300B / XLS are listed as compatible with the WA5 at least. As recent discussion goes, some people are just jumping to the Taks as considered the best. Someone should try the new Elrogs too and find out if those are solid in the WA5 now too.


 

 As I think I said in my lengthy post about the Elrogs, the new version will be arriving here in OZ around the 1st May, I will be testing them immediately and shall report on how they go as well as post some pics so people can see any changes etc.
  
 Having said that the OZ dealer still has stock of the very latest serial numbers of the last shipment, he has been exceptional on handling warranty claims etc so if you are busting and cannot wait then you could jump in now I understand the new versions will be more expensive.
  
 Talk to Bryan Fletcher at AudioNote info@finntechnology.com.au if you want a pair.


----------



## Torq

So, a few hours of two weeks since receiving my WA5 LE ...
  
 The noise during warm-up that was, at first, taking up to an hour to go away (longer on high-impedance) are now all gone in the first minute or so regardless of what settings are in use.  And what I thought was EMI/RFI has also vanished ... so that must have been down to getting some time on the amp/tubes as well, since nothing else in the environment has changed.
  
 Today was the first day I started fiddling with tubes.  Since I was familiar from my WA6, and wanted to have a set of tubes around with some nice glow, I snagged a pair of the Sophia Princess 274B Mesh Plate rectifiers.  While I am sure they need some burn-in time as well, they were an immediate improvement over the stock Psvane 54UG ... resulting in a increase in bass drive and depth (and that wasn't lacking in the first place), somewhat better dynamics and apparent extension in the upper registers.
  
 Maybe I'm imagining things ... but I'm pretty thrilled with the changes from such a relatively inexpensive change.
  
 ...
  
 I do have a couple or three sets of Brimar 5Z4GY on order now (via Langrex).  Are the "metal base GZ34" that get mentioned a fair bit the Mullard tubes?
  
 ...
  
 Next up I'll start fiddling with the power and driver tubes ... the first sets of those are likely to be for "pretties" as well, as I'm pretty sure I know what I want when it comes down to pure sound ... but figured I might as well have some fun along the way.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> I wasn't impressed with mids, what cans are you using?


 

 I've used hd800, lcd3f and hek. The 274 definitely resolves much better and are more dynamic to the metal gz34 but I like the mids of the gz34 and for casual listening. Overall the 274 is superior but I liked listening to the metal ones but more in the wa22 than in the wa5.  It was more noticeable to me.  I'd like to try the taks but got a better deal on the WE.  I'm sure they improved on the we and that's impressive.


----------



## ymc226

isquirrel said:


> As I think I said in my lengthy post about the Elrogs, the new version will be arriving here in OZ around the 1st May, I will be testing them immediately and shall report on how they go as well as post some pics so people can see any changes etc.
> 
> Having said that the OZ dealer still has stock of the very latest serial numbers of the last shipment, he has been exceptional on handling warranty claims etc so if you are busting and cannot wait then you could jump in now I understand the new versions will be more expensive.
> 
> Talk to Bryan Fletcher at AudioNote info@finntechnology.com.au if you want a pair.




I spoke with a distributor for EML who also carries Elrogs and told me to not consider them yet. Regarding the earlier Elrogs, how would you rank them compared to Taks, WE, EML and SERP or other well considered contemporary tube makers.


----------



## ken6217

torq said:


> So, a few hours of two weeks since receiving my WA5 LE ...
> 
> The noise during warm-up that was, at first, taking up to an hour to go away (longer on high-impedance) are now all gone in the first minute or so regardless of what settings are in use.  And what I thought was EMI/RFI has also vanished ... so that must have been down to getting some time on the amp/tubes as well, since nothing else in the environment has changed.
> 
> ...


 

 It's not your imagination. I've had my WA5 LE a little under two weeks. The biggest change was swapping out the stock rectifier tube to the Brimar 5Z4GY. It was a dramatic difference.


----------



## leftside

torq said:


> I do have a couple or three sets of Brimar 5Z4GY on order now (via Langrex).  Are the "metal base GZ34" that get mentioned a fair bit the Mullard tubes?


 
 I think they are all rebranded Philips. Mullard, Valvo, Amperex, Triotron. I'll post up some pics of the ones I have in a few days time. I really like them.


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> You're going to notice a difference in sound with that TT setup. I still prefer the sound of vinyl over digital (though I have some very nice sounding DSD files and SACD's). Next will be another phone pre for you...



Yep my project RS phono with battery power supply is nice but think I'm going to switch to the Ayre P-5xe


----------



## Torq

ken6217 said:


> It's not your imagination. I've had my WA5 LE a little under two weeks. The biggest change was swapping out the stock rectifier tube to the Brimar 5Z4GY. It was a dramatic difference.


 

 I was hoping I wasn't conjuring things out of the ether!
  
 It'll be very interesting to compare the Brimar 5Z4GY to the tubes I have installed now ... especially given the price differential.  The Sophia Princess 274B are quite pretty, but that's a short-term itch I am scratching and ultimately it's all going to come down to how it sounds.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I have a stand coming. It just shipped today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Daaaaamn. Looking good bud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bet those NU's sound sweet. Are they 6C or 6F?


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Daaaaamn. Looking good bud.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! Running the 6C8G. So far from what I've swapped around I like em the best! I haven't tried to compare rectifiers but I really like what I'm hearing with these new Brimars. I haven't felt the need to try and be analytical. I'm just jamming some fun tunes and enjoying it. What a fantastic day! Thank you for the recommendation. Awesome find!


----------



## musicman59

phase0 said:


> I just got the EML 300B about a month or month and a half ago... So far I like em. EML 300B / XLS are listed as compatible with the WA5 at least. As recent discussion goes, some people are just jumping to the Taks as considered the best. Someone should try the new Elrogs too and find out if those are solid in the WA5 now too.



I am using the AVVT AV 32B SL in my WA5-LE 1st Gen with no issues. It is equivalent to the EML 300B XLS.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Thanks! Running the 6C8G. So far from what I've swapped around I like em the best! I haven't tried to compare rectifiers but I really like what I'm hearing with these new Brimars. I haven't felt the need to try and be analytical. I'm just jamming some fun tunes and enjoying it. What a fantastic day! Thank you for the recommendation. Awesome find!


 

 No worries. Brimar 5Z4GY gets ya 93% to the top rectifier at a fraction of the $$'s.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> No worries. Brimar 5Z4GY gets ya 93% to the top rectifier at a fraction of the $$'s.


 
  
 Woo! ...and... not only that!!! I gotz TSRP 6F8G today! I was actually really scared here. I got one a while back without really knowing if it worked. This new one. I swear I can hear something rattling around inside. I expected it to be dead or some how explode. The Mica are different but otherwise I think thems are it. Official Tung-Sol VT-99 print although one is almost all rubbed off. Most importantly is the sound. Zero noise. They're great so far. I'd put them right up there with the NURP 6C8G.
  

  
 Tell me if that's not them. It's kind of anti climatic. I don't think these are way better than NU. I'll have to listen more but I think it's sounding okay. I'm just in shock I think I actually got some and they work.
  
 Edit: Got a better picture of one of these tube...
  

  
 Maybe it's dumb but it felt like an ordeal finding some that worked. Celebration time I think...


----------



## isquirrel

leftside said:


> I think they are all rebranded Philips. Mullard, Valvo, Amperex, Triotron. I'll post up some pics of the ones I have in a few days time. I really like them.


 

 Generally yes, all made within the same time period 1955 to 1957 all have metal bases. For a collection best to stay with the Mullard branded ones.


----------



## isquirrel

ymc226 said:


> I spoke with a distributor for EML who also carries Elrogs and told me to not consider them yet. Regarding the earlier Elrogs, how would you rank them compared to Taks, WE, EML and SERP or other well considered contemporary tube makers.


 

 I rank the Elrog's, when fully operational and partnered with a good rectifier, driver tube etc (same goes for the others) as good as if not better than the Takatsuki's and Western Electric's. Heresy ! They are a different sound, unlike any other 300B. That is why I have stuck with them, any other tube that carried on like that would not get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc look in.
  
 One of the rectifiers that works well with them is the Brimar 5UR4 of Badas fame


----------



## isquirrel

Erog review and comparison to other 300B including the WE"s
  
 http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/elrog2/1.html


----------



## isquirrel

Anyone seen this "special edition" from Woo?
  
 2nd Gen WA7 Fireflies


----------



## phase0

isquirrel said:


> Anyone seen this "special edition" from Woo?
> 
> 2nd Gen WA7 Fireflies


 
  
 Wow. I'm not shopping. I'll keep my WA5 thank you very much I'm quite happy right now. But someone did a really good job on the style and color. It was actually the WA7 I was originally going to "splurge" on, and after an exchange with Jack somehow I justified the WA5 to myself. When I finally heard the WA7 at CanJam, it was good, but compared to the WA5 I think I made the right choice. I hope that WA7 sounds as good as it looks


----------



## isquirrel

Agreed it looks fantastic, love the smoked glass, please Mr Woo can we have more "special editions"


----------



## phase0

isquirrel said:


> Agreed it looks fantastic, love the smoked glass, please Mr Woo can we have more "special editions"


 
  
 How about a WA5 or WA234 with smoked glass? Too ridiculous and heavy? No pain no gain. I wonder if someone could photoshop that.


----------



## isquirrel

phase0 said:


> How about a WA5 or WA234 with smoked glass? Too ridiculous and heavy? No pain no gain. I wonder if someone could photoshop that.


 

 No need for glass on either, would spoil the tubes + heat issues. But it would be cool to see some other finishes offered. The WA7 would have been easy but you have to anodise all sorts of bits and pieces on the WA5 & 234's. I personally hope that Woo leave the chassis alone in the future as particularly in the 234's case it must have cost a small fortune to machine all that, I don't know what their cost to retail price ratio is, in general in the high end 2 channel world its between 7-9 times if you want to manufacture in the US and pay your employee's well its probably closer to 9 times.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Agreed it looks fantastic, love the smoked glass, please Mr Woo can we have more "special editions"




Agreed looks cool. What colour is it? I'm colour blind and that is one of those colours I can never tell what it is.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Agreed looks cool. What colour is it? I'm colour blind and that is one of those colours I can never tell what it is.


 

 Depending on your gender it is either Pink or Reddish


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Depending on your gender it is either Pink or Reddish :wink_face:




I'm such a girl. So it is pink then. 

In all seriousness that is going to sell quick.


----------



## isquirrel

Fair enough, does Tony know about this ??


----------



## isquirrel

Lol ! I just noticed that the headphone cable is the same colour, or maybe I am colour blind as well


----------



## isquirrel

Anyone running LCD-4"s ?


----------



## Torq

isquirrel said:


> Anyone running LCD-4"s ?




I'm using LCD-4, among others, with the WA5LE (Mk2) ... very nice pairing.

Still find I'm preferring the Abyss overall ... but both are excellent, if somewhat different in their presentation.

(I will post proper impressions at some point soon, but field any questions in the meantime.)


----------



## thecrow

isquirrel said:


> Lol ! I just noticed that the headphone cable is the same colour, or maybe I am colour blind as well :confused_face_2:



No. You're not colour blind. They are BOTH blue


----------



## isquirrel

torq said:


> I'm using LCD-4, among others, with the WA5LE (Mk2) ... very nice pairing.
> 
> Still find I'm preferring the Abyss overall ... but both are excellent, if somewhat different in their presentation.
> 
> (I will post proper impressions at some point soon, but field any questions in the meantime.)


 

 I have the Abyss too but I prefer the LCD-4, having said that I find with the Abyss that I need to commit some time to it, tweaking the fit and getting used to again. Are your LCD-4's the 100ohm or 200ohm versions? mine are the 100ohm and I am trying to decide if I should send them back all the way from OZ. I guess its just a matter of time before one of the drivers fails? What are your thoughts on the different versions ? Thanks


----------



## Clayton SF

I think they are both light red.


----------



## leftside

isquirrel said:


> Generally yes, all made within the same time period 1955 to 1957 all have metal bases. For a collection best to stay with the Mullard branded ones.


 
 I've got a Philips one from 1953, and a Triotron from 1954.


----------



## Torq

isquirrel said:


> I have the Abyss too but I prefer the LCD-4, having said that I find with the Abyss that I need to commit some time to it, tweaking the fit and getting used to again. Are your LCD-4's the 100ohm or 200ohm versions? mine are the 100ohm and I am trying to decide if I should send them back all the way from OZ. I guess its just a matter of time before one of the drivers fails? What are your thoughts on the different versions ? Thanks


 
  
 My LCD-4 are the 200 ohm versions.
  
 Unfortunately I can't comment on the differences between the 100 ohm and 200 ohm models as I've not heard them with the original driver.
  
 Philosophically, if you like what you have, I'd hang on to it until it either fails or you're close to the end of the warranty period (unless there is some limited time-period for Audeze to provide the update free of charge - though I don't believe that to be the case).  That is, of course, unless you get to hear a 200 ohm version in the meantime and decide you prefer it!


----------



## ken6217

Just received shipping information for my Takatsuki 300B tubes. Will have them tomorrow. I heard they were being delivered by armored guard.


----------



## ymc226

I'm definitely replacing my tubes after testing the WA5 LE with the factory tubes for a week or so. 

I think going the the rabbit hole of tube rolling 300Bs is an expensive proposition and would rather be one and done (for now)
 For those that have both, if given the choice, would you pick a pair of Tak or WE reissue made around 2002 by Charles Whitener (tests as new). I'll pay once and hopefully be done.


----------



## Khragon

ymc226 said:


> I'm definitely replacing my tubes after testing the WA5 LE with the factory tubes for a week or so.
> 
> I think going the the rabbit hole of tube rolling 300Bs is an expensive proposition and would rather be one and done (for now)
> For those that have both, if given the choice, would you pick a pair of Tak or WE reissue made around 2002 by Charles Whitener (tests as new). I'll pay once and hopefully be done.


 
 If you have access to WE reissue at the same price as Tak, I would go with that no question.  WE 300B are pretty rare these days, even the reissue are getting more scarce.  They sounded wonderful to me, their claim to fame is their sweet midrange, if you wanted more bassy tube, go with SERP.  I unfortunately haven't got a chance to try Tak (yet), so no comment.  But the Elrog is very good too and is similar to WE300B in term of the smooth mids.  It's been almost a year so I'm going by memory.  I'll join the 300B game again soon when I receive Glenn 300B amp.


----------



## ymc226

khragon said:


> If you have access to WE reissue at the same price as Tak, I would go with that no question.  WE 300B are pretty rare these days, even the reissue are getting more scarce.  They sounded wonderful to me, their claim to fame is their sweet midrange, if you wanted more bassy tube, go with SERP.  I unfortunately haven't got a chance to try Tak (yet), so no comment.  But the Elrog is very good too and is similar to WE300B in term of the smooth mids.  It's been almost a year so I'm going by memory.  I'll join the 300B game again soon when I receive Glenn 300B amp.




Thanks Khragon,

You are right. The WE are a little less expensive and harder to find. The Taks you can always get if willing to pay. I'll pair them with the Brimar rectifiers and have to still decide on the drivers.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> No worries. Brimar 5Z4GY gets ya 93% to the top rectifier at a fraction of the $$'s.



Agreed!


----------



## Torq

ken6217 said:


> Just received shipping information for my Takatsuki 300B tubes. Will have them tomorrow. I heard they were being delivered by *armored guard*.


 
  
 Well ... bugger.
  
 I guess I won't ask where you live then ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 ...
  
 What I should do is order up the Tak 300Bs and 274Bs and call it good, but for some perverse reason I want to "build up" to those (and get a set of glow-biased tubes in the process).
  
 Can't wait to hear what you think!


----------



## thecrow

ymc226 said:


> I think going the the rabbit hole of tube rolling 300Bs is an expensive proposition and would rather be one and done (for now)




I agree re tubes


----------



## isquirrel

ymc226 said:


> Thanks Khragon,
> 
> You are right. The WE are a little less expensive and harder to find. The Taks you can always get if willing to pay. I'll pair them with the Brimar rectifiers and have to still decide on the drivers.


 

 The bass and the user frequencies beyond the mid range on the WE's including the Reissues is weak. Khragon is right the mid range is where the WE's shine but most defiantly not elsewhere. The Takatsuki's kill them for overall frequency spread and control the WE's sound is warm and romantic and concentrated on the mid range.


----------



## Torq

isquirrel said:


> The bass and the user frequencies beyond the mid range on the WE's including the Reissues is weak. Khragon is right the mid range is where the WE's shine but most defiantly not elsewhere. The Takatsuki's kill them for overall frequency spread and control the WE's sound is warm and romantic and concentrated on the mid range.


 

 Bloody hell ...
  
 You mean I'm going to need some vintage WEs AND the Taks?!


----------



## Stereolab42

ken6217 said:


> Just received shipping information for my Takatsuki 300B tubes. Will have them tomorrow. I heard they were being delivered by armored guard *steampunk ninjas*.


 
  
 FYP!


----------



## phase0

So for you new WA5 owners I see there's a couple matched pair NU 6C8G just went up on eBay... It's not the best price that I've seen them go for, but if anyone was dying to try them...


----------



## moriez

Hi Woo club,
  
 I became a WA2 owner recently and got me a package deal of three GEC 6080.
  
 As the seller remains unresponsive I'd like to get help on which two tubes to use.
 I've read that it's recommendable to match a pair by ''gm''.. Any comments?
  
 What would you do and what does ''la'' stand for?


----------



## 3083joe

moriez said:


> Hi Woo club,
> 
> I became a WA2 owner recently and got me a package deal of three GEC 6080.
> 
> ...



I would use the 1st & 2nd or the 1st & 3rd but it's honestly up to your ears. The closer the numbers the closer the match. Lots of people don't even worry about matches at all. As for "la" I'm not sure what it stands for but I'm sure someone here does.


----------



## neilmanalo

are there any other cheaper tube upgrade for the wa7?


----------



## Oskari

moriez said:


> what does ''la'' stand for?


 
  
Ia = anode current


----------



## ymc226

isquirrel said:


> I rank the Elrog's, when fully operational and partnered with a good rectifier, driver tube etc (same goes for the others) as good as if not better than the Takatsuki's and Western Electric's. Heresy ! They are a different sound, unlike any other 300B. That is why I have stuck with them, any other tube that carried on like that would not get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc look in.
> 
> One of the rectifiers that works well with them is the Brimar 5UR4 of Badas fame


 

 Thank you.  I think these will be my final 300Bs when they come back as an improved model.  I'll have to get a pair of EMLs or SEs in the meantime.


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> I have to say that the tak puts the metal gz34 to shame. Sorry but it's so much faster, cleaner, clearer and holographic.
> Taks are plain amazing!!!!
> At least with my setup.


 

 I had a big tube rolling session last night. I pulled out a few different rectifiers, power tubes and drivers. I'll post the rest of my findings on the woo tube rolling thread, but I can see what you are saying in regard to the GZ34. I don't tend to hear as many differences as you with various tubes, but after multiple listens I definitely preferred the WE 274A and the (cheaper) fat bottle GEC 53KU. I've got some great tube pairings now, but it's been a lot of trial and error (and expense) (and fun  )


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> I had a big tube rolling session last night. I pulled out a few different rectifiers, power tubes and drivers. I'll post the rest of my findings on the woo tube rolling thread, but I can see what you are saying in regard to the GZ34. I don't tend to hear as many differences as you with various tubes, but after multiple listens I definitely preferred the WE 274A and the (cheaper) fat bottle GEC 53KU. I've got some great tube pairings now, but it's been a lot of trial and error (and expense) (and fun  )



Right there with you. Expensive is true also.


----------



## ken6217

leftside said:


> I had a big tube rolling session last night. I pulled out a few different rectifiers, power tubes and drivers. I'll post the rest of my findings on the woo tube rolling thread, but I can see what you are saying in regard to the GZ34. I don't tend to hear as many differences as you with various tubes, but after multiple listens I definitely preferred the WE 274A and the (cheaper) fat bottle GEC 53KU. I've got some great tube pairings now, but it's been a lot of trial and error (and expense) (and fun  )


 

 Maybe we can arrange a group buy and get it down to $1700 for a pair


----------



## phase0

Picked this up from Woo's twitter feed:
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/saturday-axpona-herb#gMPFORKX1SVlC36u.97

 The reason I found it so interesting is I have never ventured in to full on audiophile expensive vinyl setup-land. It's a strange foreign territory as far as I'm concerned. I think of it as a kind of validation that I jumped into the WA5 and something more premium for DAC and headphones believing it would get me to a high-end sound without spending $100K+ and hoped what I got would rival the enjoyment of a stereo setup minus the problems of room treatment. It seems to justify that a little bit (even tho I don't current have the Abyss). My friend who is into big stereos does argue you can't feel the bass and get the full experience with headphones and I have to agree (especially compared to a live concert or club system that can make your eye balls jiggle to where you can't see straight)... I'm not dead yet, maybe some day I can have a big boy stereo too...


----------



## Stereolab42

phase0 said:


> Picked this up from Woo's twitter feed:
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/saturday-axpona-herb#gMPFORKX1SVlC36u.97
> 
> The reason I found it so interesting is I have never ventured in to full on audiophile expensive vinyl setup-land. It's a strange foreign territory as far as I'm concerned. I think of it as a kind of validation that I jumped into the WA5 and something more premium for DAC and headphones believing it would get me to a high-end sound without spending $100K+ and hoped what I got would rival the enjoyment of a stereo setup minus the problems of room treatment. It seems to justify that a little bit (even tho I don't current have the Abyss). My friend who is into big stereos does argue you can't feel the bass and get the full experience with headphones and I have to agree (especially compared to a live concert or club system that can make your eye balls jiggle to where you can't see straight)... I'm not dead yet, maybe some day I can have a big boy stereo too...


 
  
 The XC is no slouch but the Abyss is in a category by itself. Its ability to reproduce the "big-speaker" sound is simply astonishing.


----------



## ken6217

Try Hifiman HE-1000. That's what I use with my WA5 LE. I borrowed the LCD-4 for a week to see if I was going to buy it, but listening to it after the HE-1000, the LCD-4 is so closed in.


----------



## phase0

ken6217 said:


> Try Hifiman HE-1000. That's what I use with my WA5 LE. I borrowed the LCD-4 for a week to see if I was going to buy it, but listening to it after the HE-1000, the LCD-4 is so closed in.


 
  
 Yea I heard all three at a CanJam last year, HE1K, LCD-4, and Abyss. I liked the HE1K but from that impression I would have probably gone LCD4 or Abyss. I didn't think the LCD4 was a big enough step up from LCD-XC and 4K is a lot to ask for than little bump. The CanJam was the first time seeing/hearing a lot of things and a little bit overwhelming. I think the Abyss is the next headphone on my want-list. When I heard them I thought they were better but again I wasn't feeling the this-is-worth-5K kind of upgrade. I want to demo them again at the next CanJam and try to get a new read with my year of experience perspective and see if my impressions change. I also read a few mentions of a lot of variability in the build quality on HE1K where not everyone's pair sounds as good as they can sound. I felt like what I heard at least was good for lighter music, and while I read reports it does have great bass I wasn't hearing it. That could also have to do with the sample selection at the booths and not knowing what to pick and skipping around with classical tunes etc.


----------



## ken6217

Deleted


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> Well Badas and Tony wanted some Tak 300B porn. So here we go......
> 
> Foreplay:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Damn with Brimar rectifiers and RCA 5692 drivers (the smoky flavor RCA 6SN7). That's a great pairing.
  
 Looking and I bet sounding fantastic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P.S. Foreplay and insertion. Well insertion looks better. Just don't withdraw too quickly.


----------



## Stereolab42

Nice. I give you points for the red-base 5692s, I have them in my WA5 at this exact moment.


----------



## phase0

ken6217, Looks good! How's it sound? I wish I had some Taks. Haven't made it that far yet down the road.
  
 I did get my new stand today:
  

  
 I wish I had a better camera too. The best my phone can do at the moment. Similar kind of effect as the wood on the LCD-XC ear cup.
  
 Here's one more of the whole stand...


----------



## ken6217

phase0 said:


> ken6217, Looks good! How's it sound? I wish I had some Taks. Haven't made it that far yet down the road.
> 
> I did get my new stand today:
> 
> ...


 

 Looks good.
  
 I may need to look at another pair of headphones. I think that these are too "lite" for this amp. A lot of recordings are really bright unless they are very well recorded. Not sure what to look at. I see that you have the LCD-XC. listened to them when I auditioned the WA5 and they seemed slow after listening to the my HE-K's. Definitely not spending $4K on LCD-4.
  
 I'm trying to find the right driver tube to match my rectifier and TAK-300B. Some are too bright or dull. Probably been listening to excellent solid state amps for so long that I'm not yet accustomed to tubes.
  
 The TAK really has a lot of bass which is nice,


----------



## Bitten by Bug

ken6217 said:


> Well Badas and Tony wanted some Tak 300B porn. So here we go......


 
 LMAO!  Thanks!


----------



## leftside

ken6217 said:


> Looks good.
> 
> I may need to look at another pair of headphones. I think that these are too "lite" for this amp. A lot of recordings are really bright unless they are very well recorded. Not sure what to look at. I see that you have the LCD-XC. listened to them when I auditioned the WA5 and they seemed slow after listening to the my HE-K's. Definitely not spending $4K on LCD-4.
> 
> ...


 
 I've posted my thoughts on some driver tubes over on the Woo Audio tube rolling thread.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I've posted my thoughts on some driver tubes over on the Woo Audio tube rolling thread.




Didn't even know there was a Woo tube rolling thread. I will go and find it now. It gives me some reading. I hope it's not a thousand pages long. :basshead:


----------



## Torq

badas said:


> Didn't even know there was a Woo tube rolling thread. I will go and find it now. It gives me some reading. I hope it's not a thousand pages long.


 

 Since I'm feeling impossibly lazy, would you be so kind as to post a link/PM me, when you find it? 
  
 Also, I've found your thoughts, comments, notes on various tubes to be most enlightening and interesting.  Damn near encyclopedic.  And very impressive.


----------



## Torq

phase0 said:


> ken6217, Looks good! How's it sound? I wish I had some Taks. Haven't made it that far yet down the road.
> 
> I did get my new stand today:
> 
> ...


 

 Very pretty!
  
 Are you finding an audible improvement on the new rack?
  
 Who builds that one?  I've seen similar (e.g. HiFi Racks Limited, out of the UK), but not the same one.
  
 I just got done experimenting with the StillPoints stuff ... impressive ... but the amp and PSU slide around on them to the point that it's a) annoying and b) if I ever caught/pulled the headphone cable the amp would fall off the feet and probably off the rack.  So while I wait for Woo to mail me the thread/feet replacement details, I'm looking at rack options as well.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> ken6217, Looks good! How's it sound? I wish I had some Taks. Haven't made it that far yet down the road.
> 
> I did get my new stand today:
> 
> ...




That rack and whole rig looks exceptional.


----------



## phase0

torq said:


> Very pretty!
> 
> Are you finding an audible improvement on the new rack?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually yes. I have a really cheap computer desk and the vibrations came through audibly especially when I was typing. I couldn't really notice except in quiet parts but I think there is an improvement by isolating the amp. The builder is TimberNation (.com). The amp feet are solid on this stand (not even remotely slip and slide, it's a rock and won't budge). The whole stand is very solid. I was looking around and searching for a while. I didn't see anything else out there that wasn't exorbitantly expensive (like more than the entire audio setup for just the stand) that I really liked. There's plenty of stands available but at least to my eyes this was the best looking I found. It's not just good enough it's exceptional. It makes every other piece of furniture I have look bad. I need to stick a Buddha or Jesus on it cause I feel like I'm building an altar or something LOL. I don't have anything else this nice.
  


badas said:


> That rack and whole rig looks exceptional.


 
  
 Thank you! Now I'm thinking tube storage can go on the bottom shelf. I'm not sure how to do that. Maybe I should look for some baskets or light bins. Just throwing them all on the shelf looks really messy.


----------



## phase0

Using the morning light I got what I thought was an interesting shot of the EML 300B


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Using the morning light I got what I thought was an interesting shot of the EML 300B




Great shot. I like how you captured the room as well. Looks relaxing.


----------



## isquirrel

phase0 said:


> Using the morning light I got what I thought was an interesting shot of the EML 300B


 
  


phase0 said:


> Using the morning light I got what I thought was an interesting shot of the EML 300B


 

 Are you using a fisheye lens?


----------



## phase0

isquirrel said:


> Are you using a fisheye lens?


 
  
 Nope. Just a naked iPhone 6.
  
 It is kind of relaxing. I'm glad I got it. Nothing really left to do but sit back and enjoy it. Well there's always something else... but for now I'm quite happy with my rig.


----------



## jhljhl

The Shuguang 300b-98 are certainly not audiophile tubes. When I heard the WA-5le for first time they were the stock tubes, I was very impressed with the amp even though the tubes were very bloomy with very little control but they were a lot of fun. Now I have the EML and they sound much more controlled and dynamic but do not have that typical warm midrange.


----------



## Porteroso

joedoe said:


> Second time WA7tp owner checking in. EH Gold pins in the WA7 and RCA Cleartops in the PSU. The GH1s are soundin' _sweet!_


 
 It is a really nice looking amp. I would love to compare to a WA6 one day. But in aesthetics, the WA7 is pretty great.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

porteroso said:


> It is a really nice looking amp. I would love to compare to a WA6 one day. But in aesthetics, the WA7 is pretty great.


 

 Agreed! Even more pretty in person!  Listening to the second generation with LCD-X, sounded really quite nice.  Simply couldn't resist.  Had to place me olde paw on the glass to judge temp - barely warm! The experience also made me fall in love with the LCD-X, rats.
  
 Talking about falling in love....lit up a NOS WE422A and initial impression has taken the 6SE to whole new levels.Amazing experience.


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> The Shuguang 300b-98 are certainly not audiophile tubes. When I heard the WA-5le for first time they were the stock tubes, I was very impressed with the amp even though the tubes were very bloomy with very little control but they were a lot of fun. Now I have the EML and they sound much more controlled and dynamic but do not have that typical warm midrange.


 

 It would help us to help you if you could describe the kind of music you listen to and the type of sound you are looking for?


----------



## YugiRider2

Sorry for asking a question that's been asked a million times, but I really don't know what to read when there are 2500 pages of posts..
 What upgrades should I be getting for my WA22? Will be pairing it with my LCD-3. I heard that rolling the rectifier doesn't make a huge difference, so would appreciate any help.


----------



## isquirrel

yugirider2 said:


> Sorry for asking a question that's been asked a million times, but I really don't know what to read when there are 2500 pages of posts..
> What upgrades should I be getting for my WA22? Will be pairing it with my LCD-3. I heard that rolling the rectifier doesn't make a huge difference, so would appreciate any help.


 

 Badas, has a huge amount of experience wth your amp, I would send him a PM


----------



## YugiRider2

isquirrel said:


> Badas, has a huge amount of experience wth your amp, I would send him a PM


 

 Thanks for that - just chucked him a PM. Hate to be that guy asking a question that has been asked numerous times.


----------



## u2u2

yugirider2 said:


> Sorry for asking a question that's been asked a million times, but I really don't know what to read when there are 2500 pages of posts..
> What upgrades should I be getting for my WA22? Will be pairing it with my LCD-3. I heard that rolling the rectifier doesn't make a huge difference, so would appreciate any help.




There are some much shorter threads that deal with the WA22. I found them to be very informative and by doing a fast forum search just using "WA22" as your search criteria you will find them in but a second. You will get the opinions of many WA22 owners over the life of the product. That approach may lighten your workload and help you avoid getting drawn away from tubes with rock solid histories of consistently satisfied users. I have plenty of time for this hobby and have consumed countless hours reading and re-reading all the Woo threads. Some posters are exceedingly enthusiastic and subject to some rather extreme swings in their views, over time, as to what works. That is as it should be but makes it hard for a newbie to make decisions. Don't miss Dubstep Girl's Massive Rectifier Review thread. Remember you probably bought the WA22 because it sounds great right out of the box and some audio enthusiasts have far better ears and descriptive vocabularies that most mortals. You don't need to spend a lot to roll some good tubes. Rectifiers included. Have fun...


----------



## thecrow

yugirider2 said:


> Thanks for that - just chucked him a PM. Hate to be that guy asking a question that has been asked numerous times.



As badas will tell you he generally lines things on the warmer side (that's how I know him) and dubstepgirl was a great help to me re my wa2 and pointed me to some great detailed lively tubes too


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> It would help us to help you if you could describe the kind of music you listen to and the type of sound you are looking for?


 

 I was just saying that the Shuguang 300b-98 had a bloated midrange but were surprisingly fun sounding tubes. When I first heard them I was using the LCD-3F and listening to rock music. They might be okay with classical but I soon changed them for the EML. I'll move on to the Taks one day for the dynamics and midrange.


----------



## 3083joe

Great price for f31 gz34 if anyone is looking 
https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/252350111568


----------



## Contrails

I have the Metal base GZ34, to be honest I am disappointed with it.  A bit bland sounding compared to the TAK 274b that I heard on Badas's amp.


----------



## 3083joe

contrails said:


> I have the Metal base GZ34, to be honest I am disappointed with it.  A bit bland sounding compared to the TAK 274b that I heard on Badas's amp.



 I agree 100% TAK274 blows it away


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> I have the Metal base GZ34, to be honest I am disappointed with it.  A bit bland sounding compared to the TAK 274b that I heard on Badas's amp.







3083joe said:


> I agree 100% TAK274 blows it away




I've heard no better rectifier in my amp. Contrails is going to lend me the GZ34 to give it a run. So I'm very interested in that.

One thing to be careful with the TAK274B is it can produce a low level hum in the WA22 that can be heard in the headphones. It seems to be a 274 thing. Nothing too disturbing but it is there.

I'm rolling a lot of new power tubes at the moment. So I'm trying to make sure they are 100% quiet. So because of the hum I can't use the TAK right now. So I'm using the dead quiet Brimar 5Z4. Enjoying it a lot. Amazing what this cheap humble tube can do.


----------



## isquirrel

contrails said:


> I have the Metal base GZ34, to be honest I am disappointed with it.  A bit bland sounding compared to the TAK 274b that I heard on Badas's amp.


 

 Thats odd, in my amp and Fririce003's the Metal Base GZ34 rocks, plenty of PRAT and a touch cooler than the Tak 274B I think Dubstep girl referred to it as a Minty Euphonic sound and that's exactly what it sounds like in my amp. I use it when I am listening to EDM, rock anything that I want some real pace and impact with, the Tak 274B sounds a little slower however it has more texture.
  
  I get no hum at all from any rectifier. Sounds like different amps different results


----------



## 3083joe

isquirrel said:


> Thats odd, in my amp and Fririce003's the Metal Base GZ34 rocks, plenty of PRAT and a touch cooler than the Tak 274B I think Dubstep girl referred to it as a Minty Euphonic sound and that's exactly what it sounds like in my amp. I use it when I am listening to EDM, rock anything that I want some real pace and impact with, the Tak 274B sounds a little slower however it has more texture.
> 
> I get no hum at all from any rectifier. Sounds like different amps different results :confused_face_2:



I get no hum from any of my 274s in my wa22 either


----------



## versace

3083joe said:


> I get no hum from any of my 274s in my wa22 either


 
 Same here, none.


----------



## 3083joe

versace said:


> Same here, none.



I think Badas
Just had real bad luck with tubes. 
Hate it for him.


----------



## 3083joe

I have to say I just get my new TT and wow. Clearaudio and their magnify tonearm is straight up stunning. Sound is night and day from where I was.


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> I get no hum at all from any rectifier. Sounds like different amps different results :confused_face_2:







3083joe said:


> I get no hum from any of my 274s in my wa22 either




It comes and goes. Extremely minor. You get a audiable hum from the amp that travels through to the HP's. It comes and goes. Can be quiet for hours then it will do it for 10 minutes or so then stop. From then it is on and off. Another member a few weeks ago noted it as well. Very minor. Generally I just let it go. Just part of what tubes do. However at the moment I'm testing for noise from tubes. So can't have the rectifier adding it in as well. Brimar is dead quiet and gets bloody close to the TAK274B. So close I don't desire the TAK. As I have a TAK I will go back to using it in the end.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> It comes and goes. Extremely minor. You get a audiable hum from the amp that travels through to the HP's. It comes and goes. Can be quiet for hours then it will do it for 10 minutes or so then stop. From then it is on and off. Another member a few weeks ago noted it as well. Very minor. Generally I just let it go. Just part of what tubes do. However at the moment I'm testing for noise from tubes. So can't have the rectifier adding it in as well. Brimar is dead quiet and gets bloody close to the TAK274B. So close I don't desire the TAK. As I have a TAK I will go back to using it in the end.



Got you. I will listen for it a little more and see if I can hear it. 
Been so tempted to go to the v281 just to do away with all the tube issues.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I have to say I just get my new TT and wow. Clearaudio and their magnify tonearm is straight up stunning. Sound is night and day from where I was.




Stunning looking. 

Interesting having the level on display. Can that removed once it is set?


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Got you. I will listen for it a little more and see if I can hear it.
> Been so tempted to go to the v281 just to do away with all the tube issues.




Knowing what I know now. If I could go back in time I would buy a V281 and be done with all amps.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Knowing what I know now. If I could go back in time I would buy a V281 and be done with all amps.



Yeah. Probably move to it in the future.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Stunning looking.
> 
> Interesting having the level on display. Can that removed once it is set?



Yes just sits there


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Knowing what I know now. If I could go back in time I would buy a V281 and be done with all amps.


 
  
 So does that mean you'll be selling your TSRPs soon? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually I got my order for the V281 in. I'm gonna check out what all the fuss is about... I'm just afraid that I'll like it enough that I must keep it, but also like the WA5 enough that I can't let it go.


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> Thats odd, in my amp and Fririce003's the Metal Base GZ34 rocks, plenty of PRAT and a touch cooler than the Tak 274B I think Dubstep girl referred to it as a Minty Euphonic sound and that's exactly what it sounds like in my amp. I use it when I am listening to EDM, rock anything that I want some real pace and impact with, the Tak 274B sounds a little slower however it has more texture.
> 
> I get no hum at all from any rectifier. Sounds like different amps different results


 

 I agree about the prat- that's how it is with the wa5le as well.  The "minty" or transparent kind of holographic midrange was to me more pronounced in the wa22 than in the wa5le.  But overall the 274 tube is superior in terms of painting a soundscape with bold textures and more "romantic" or euphonic sounding.
  
 I think with tubes- they are generally said to be more euphonic. http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm  However some of the ss amps like the LAu and the Taurus were euphonic and not fatiguing.


----------



## Rossliew

Should I go wa5 or V281? The lure of tubes especially large ones like the 300B are very tempting..


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> So does that mean you'll be selling your TSRPs soon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm never selling the TSRP's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are just too nice.
  
 I want both dude. A V281 and my WA22.
 Eventually I will get there.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I'm never selling the TSRP's.  They are just too nice.
> 
> I want both dude. A V281 and my WA22.
> Eventually I will get there.



Probably going to switch in a few months. Mid summer maybe


----------



## versace

The 5z4gy just blew me away...... this is just so good pairing with the HEK...... just, just no more typing just listening. <3 thank you badas


----------



## Badas

versace said:


> The 5z4gy just blew me away...... this is just so good pairing with the HEK...... just, just no more typing just listening. <3 thank you badas


 

 No worries. I'm glad you are enjoying.
  
 They get even nicer with age as well. My one has 400-500 hours on it and it is still dynamic but smoother. It is getting more use than the TAK274B right now.


----------



## Rossliew

versace said:


> The 5z4gy just blew me away...... this is just so good pairing with the HEK...... just, just no more typing just listening. <3 thank you badas




Any links to where I can purchase this tube? Couldn't find it over on eBay unless it's called by another name..


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Any links to where I can purchase this tube? Couldn't find it over on eBay unless it's called by another name..


 
 http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
  
 Go down the page until you find 5Z4G BRIMAR. Add to cart.


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> http://www.langrex.co.uk/common-valves.html
> 
> Go down the page until you find 5Z4G BRIMAR. Add to cart.




Many thanks, Dono!


----------



## Badas

Today I did a minor cosmetic change. I wanted to have my amp all black (or as black as possible). So I've changed all my tube saves to black versions (ordered a while back) from the brass ceramic version. I ordered ones similar to the bases of the Glenn 6F8G adapters. Sorry not a good pic. Taken by iPhone.
  
 What was interesting is while I had all the tubes and adapters apart I decided to do a big pin clean.
 I dropped a drop of DeOxit into every socket hole on the amp. DeOxit cleaned the adapter pins. Dropped more DeOxit down the adapter socket holes. Then finally DeOxit cleaned the tube pins and reinstalled. Took about an hour. I was surprised how much junk came off previously cleaned tubes.
  
 Once completed I gave it a listen. I don't know if it is placebo effect but it seems like I'm getting more detail. Everything else sounds the same. Just more treble detail. I will do more evaluation tonight.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Today I did a minor cosmetic change. I wanted to have my amp all black (or as black as possible). So I've changed all my tube saves to black versions (ordered a while back) from the brass ceramic version. I ordered ones similar to the bases of the Glenn 6F8G adapters. Sorry not a good pic. Taken by iPhone.
> 
> What was interesting is while I had all the tubes and adapters apart I decided to do a big pin clean.
> I dropped a drop of DeOxit into every socket hole on the amp. DeOxit cleaned the adapter pins. Dropped more DeOxit down the adapter socket holes. Then finally DeOxit cleaned the tube pins and reinstalled. Took about an hour. I was surprised how much junk came off previously cleaned tubes.
> ...


 
  
 Sure is pretty without the white contrast! Sweet!
  
 Not to be an alarmist.  I hope putting a drop down each socket hole could not in any possible way form a temporary short between various leads in the innards. This liquid is no doubt conductive.  How long does it take to evaporate?  I just always react with horror to electronics and any liquid.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Sure is pretty without the white contrast! Sweet!
> 
> Not to be an alarmist.  I hope putting a drop down each socket hole could not in any possible way form a temporary short between various leads in the innards. This liquid is no doubt conductive.  How long does it take to evaporate?  I just always react with horror to electronics and any liquid.


 

 It seemed fine. I ran the amp for a couple of hours. I was careful and wiped the tops to make sure liquid wasn't going from one pin to the next. Liquid should only be inside the socket.


----------



## leftside

No problem applying Deoxit to a thin q-tip or equivalent and then cleaning the socket hole, but don't put Deoxit directly down the tube socket holes.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> No problem applying Deoxit to a thin q-tip or equivalent and then cleaning the socket hole, but don't put Deoxit directly down the tube socket holes.


 

 Lol. Done now. I won't do it again.


----------



## nwavesailor

leftside said:


> No problem applying Deoxit to a thin q-tip or equivalent and then cleaning the socket hole, but don't put Deoxit directly down the tube socket holes.


 

 Yep, I have replaced more than one socket from folks adding too much of any of these liquids in tube sockets.  Use VERY sparingly and just a thin coat! It's not a "If a little is good, a lot is better" thing!


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> It seemed fine. I ran the amp for a couple of hours. I was careful and wiped the tops to make sure liquid wasn't going from one pin to the next. Liquid should only be inside the socket.


 
  
  


leftside said:


> No problem applying Deoxit to a thin q-tip or equivalent and then cleaning the socket hole, but don't put Deoxit directly down the tube socket holes.


 
 Agreed!!!
  


badas said:


> Lol. Done now. I won't do it again.


 
  
 Yay!!!


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Oh and BTW - with all the fast shipping results from Langrex being reported, I placed another order on 20 April.  We shall see if the Postal Gods elect to get this to me in the desert via airplane instead of camel delivery this time. Probably not, so let us hope the camel does not eat the shipment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I do like the quality of their stock.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ...
> 
> *What was interesting is while I had all the tubes and adapters apart I decided to do a big pin clean.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks very cool.
  
 Ever since you previously ranted wrote about DeOxit, I've gotten into the habit of cleaning the pins with each roll. I am always impressed how much crap ends up in the Q-tip.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> I dropped a drop of DeOxit into every socket hole on the amp. DeOxit cleaned the adapter pins. Dropped more DeOxit down the adapter socket holes.


 
 I don't mean to alarm you either, and I know many have already said it, and your amp seems to be fine (thankfully) but I actually was going to do this and Woo stated do NOT to put anything down the tube sockets.
  
 Glad to hear you made out without doing any harm though!


----------



## Badas

That's it. You guys have officially got me worried now.
  
 I hope I don't go.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> No worries. I'm glad you are enjoying.
> 
> They get even nicer with age as well. My one has 400-500 hours on it and it is still dynamic but smoother. It is getting more use than the TAK274B right now.


 

 Dono, that Brimar 5Z4G was the find of the century thus far. It works well with everything I have tried with it. Its also a very good match with the Elrog's, EML 2A3 and 45's. Is the TSRP your current fav driver tube? Did you end up having a go with the C3G's or did have enough of a listen to Tony's to from any opinion's about them vs the TSRP's?


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Dono, that Brimar 5Z4G was the find of the century thus far. It works well with everything I have tried with it. Its also a very good match with the Elrog's, EML 2A3 and 45's. Is the TSRP your current fav driver tube? Did you end up having a go with the C3G's or did have enough of a listen to Tony's to from any opinion's about them vs the TSRP's?


 

 Yeah. I'm back to the Brimar at the moment. Enjoying it very much.
  
 I can't use C3G in the WA22. Just not possible.
 Yes TSRP is my favorite tube. I have not heard the Mullard ECCxx tubes tho. TSRP hits my buttons. Great bass, enough treble detail and a nice warm mid-range. Opened up the soundstage better than other drivers I tried also. That is why I stocked up. Unlikely to ever change drive tubes.
 From the time I have listened to Tony's 300B amp with the C3G I formed the opinion that the C3G is likely the most transparent drive tube I have heard. Every bit of detail and bass extension is there. I could not have it teamed up with other transparent tubes. Warmth would have to come from a 300B. With the right combo tho C3G would be lethal.


----------



## Badas

3803Joe.
  
 I found someone using more tubes and adapters than you in a WA22. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 You need to pick up your game mate.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> That's it. You guys have officially got me worried now.
> 
> I hope I don't go.


 
 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to alarm more than you've already been.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Yeah. I'm back to the Brimar at the moment. Enjoying it very much.
> 
> I can't use C3G in the WA22. Just not possible.
> Yes TSRP is my favorite tube. I have not heard the Mullard ECCxx tubes tho.



Maybe that's a good thing (for your pocket). I don't hear the big differences between the various tubes that a lot of you do, but I do hear subtle improvements with the ECCxx tubes. They are my favorites along with the Osram B65's.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to alarm more than you've already been.


 

 All good. Better safe than sorry. I'm going to turn the amp on as soon as I get home. Hopefully the heat will evaporate the excess.


----------



## isquirrel

badas said:


> Yeah. I'm back to the Brimar at the moment. Enjoying it very much.
> 
> I can't use C3G in the WA22. Just not possible.
> Yes TSRP is my favorite tube. I have not heard the Mullard ECCxx tubes tho. TSRP hits my buttons. Great bass, enough treble detail and a nice warm mid-range. Opened up the soundstage better than other drivers I tried also. That is why I stocked up. Unlikely to ever change drive tubes.
> From the time I have listened to Tony's 300B amp with the C3G I formed the opinion that the C3G is likely the most transparent drive tube I have heard. Every bit of detail and bass extension is there. I could not have it teamed up with other transparent tubes. Warmth would have to come from a 300B. With the right combo tho C3G would be lethal.


 

 I have tried to find that combo, the only conclusion I can come to is that my amp is not fully utilising it properly. When I pair it with the Tak's (300B's and 274B's) I get poor bass performance, simply put there is just not enough there. 
  
 I wrote to Jack Wu about it (after all I am using his adapters) and he confirmed that the amp would have to re-designed to take full advantage of it.


----------



## isquirrel

They do look very cool, and the adapters are great quality.
  
 I 100% agree with you on your comments, in fact in every respect except for the bass they are exceptional. I should check with Matt and see if he is using them.
  
*Anyone else here running C3G's and can comment?*


----------



## isquirrel

This is Jack's email response to me on them, may as well include it all as their is some useful info.
  
_"Simon,_
  
_Glad to hear you liked the C3g. There is still more potential to use this tube. However, we will have to re-design the amp to fully support it._
  

_How difficult is to change tubes without damaging them - I have heard it is very difficult and that damaging the tubes is very easy to do?
 J: you can use any c3g on the adapter. It will not get damaged. It is a robust tube._
  
_I need to make sure I have spares so am I better off ordering another set of tubes and adapters as a single unit from you? 
 J: I have a healthy inventory, saving them for good use._
  
_How many hours do they last for? 
 J: 10000 hours manufacturer rated._
  
_Do they drive 300B’s better, 
 J: Absolutely. 6SN7 is a bit lacking to drive 300B._
 _Jack"_


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> This is Jack's email response to me on them, may as well include it all as their is some useful info.
> 
> _"Simon,_
> 
> ...


 

 They sound very good in the WA5LE with Glenn Adapters.  But there is a slight drop in gain so I have to increase the volume.  Transparent tube and slight increase in prat.  I recommend it to all WA5 owners if they want something a little leaner and faster.  Pairs well with the HEK.  In an amp designed for it like the Glenn 300b probably sounds exceptional but 6sn7 are still good alternative like the ecc35 and sylvania 6sn7w. 6c8g have more gain and do sound good too.


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> They sound very good in the WA5LE with Glenn Adapters.  But there is a slight drop in gain so I have to increase the volume.  Transparent tube and slight increase in prat.  I recommend it to all WA5 owners if they want something a little leaner and faster.  Pairs well with the HEK.  In an amp designed for it like the Glenn 300b probably sounds exceptional but 6sn7 are still good alternative like the ecc35 and sylvania 6sn7w. 6c8g have more gain and do sound good too.


 

 Thank you !
  
 How do you find the lower mid range and bass performance in the WA5? The adapters for the 234's are apparently quite different to the WA5. I don't have any gain issues.
  
 I did try the Glenn adapters first up, they were well built etc but there was a gain issue that was due to a difference in the circuit in the 234 vs the WA5.


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> How do you find the lower mid range and bass performance in the WA5? The adapters for the 234's are apparently quite different to the WA5. I don't have any gain issues.


 
  
  
 The midrange reflects the 300b I'm using which are EML-300b-xls. There is transparent warmth but no bloom reminds me of the metal gz34.  [Edit: lol. I was using the metal gz34]  Bass is fast and a little leaner than in a 6sn7 but no real drop off in comparison to 6sn7.  My guess is the fact that there is a drop in gain means that the the WA5 might be using only 90% of what this tube can do.
  
 Glenn said he could make an El3n to 6sn7 adapter but I don't think they'd fit but they could I think in your amp.


----------



## Khragon

As much as I appreciate Woo adopting c3g, I can't help but grin at this statement: "I have a healthy inventory...".

Woo is (in)famous for over charging for NOS tubes and they obviously have the funding to gobble up the supply. I can see already that they will over price the c3g. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I doubt it.


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> The midrange reflects the 300b I'm using which are EML-300b-xls. There is transparent warmth but no bloom reminds me of the metal gz34.  Bass is fast and a little leaner than in a 6sn7 but no real drop off in comparison to 6sn7.  My guess is the fact that there is a drop in gain means that the the WA5 might be using only 90% of what this tube can do.


 

 In the email that Jack Wu sent me, you can read where he says that to get the best out of the tube the circuit would have to be re-designed and I am sure that would apply equally to any other Woo amp to a lesser or greater effect 
  
 My feeling is that the WA5 gets more out of the C3G than the 234 does sonically. The drop off in bass performance is in the range of a 30% reduction. Having said I have not tried them in Cathode mode only using Plate settings. 
  
 What settings are you running with?


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> In the email that Jack Wu sent me, you can read where he says that to get the best out of the tube the circuit would have to be re-designed and I am sure that would apply equally to any other Woo amp to a lesser or greater effect
> 
> My feeling is that the WA5 gets more out of the C3G than the 234 does sonically. The drop off in bass performance is in the range of a 30% reduction. Having said I have not tried them in Cathode mode only using Plate settings.
> 
> What settings are you running with?


 

 I'm using a WA5LE.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> As much as I appreciate Woo adopting c3g, I can't help but grin at this statement: "I have a healthy inventory...".
> 
> Woo is (in)famous for over charging for NOS tubes and they obviously have the funding to gobble up the supply. I can see already that they will over price the c3g. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I doubt it.


 

 I originally got the C3G's from Jac Music, the EML distributor, he has a great stock of them as well as C3GS - apparently the S suffix denotes a higher spec, does not mean it sound say better. I sent my Lorenz to Woo and when they took the Jackets off this is what they found.
  
 Woo said that the tubes looked like they had been used before. 
  
 I bought a set of Siemens, de-frocked from Woo for $220 pair. I though that was pretty reasonable. 
  
 Tony - who has been through just about every C3G made, told me that they do not differ sonically very much between manufacturers.


----------



## isquirrel

jhljhl said:


> I'm using a WA5LE.


 

 Sorry I am not familiar with the WA5, do you have high and low Plate settings and or a Cathode option so you can tailor them to low or high impedance headphones?


----------



## reeltime

I just received my Takatsuki 300Bs tonight.  Beautiful tube for starters.  
  
 Out of the box and into the amp, they don't glow much!  All that light is housed deep inside.  Visually, the light show on the Elrog puts the Taks to shame.  
  
 Sonics:  My first reaction is that the extremes at the end of the frequency range is stretched further than the Elrog.  The highs are higher, the lows are lower, to my ears.  The bass definitely has more impact than the Elrog.
  
 The Taks, however, are a bit bright on the HE1000.  I'm expecting this to settle a bit as the tubes break in.  For instance on Hugh Masekela's masterpiece "The Coal Train" the bell and his train wails border on screeching.  This is something that will typically settle and smooth out during break-in.  I'm not concerned.  
  
 Where the Elrog is better is in soundstage width.  The Tak has a tighter, narrower soundstage, you could argue that the Tak is more precise, but I frankly miss the space and openness of the Elrog.  I don't expect an improvement in this area, soundstage tends to be more of a fixed proposition in tubes in my experience.
  
 The Taks are fine 300Bs, no question.  Intimate.  But I narrowly prefer the Elrogs, at least out of the box.   
  
 It's my sincere hope that Elrog can solve the reliability issues with the redesign.  Gotta wait and see.  
  
 Either way, I'm glad my WA5LE is up and running with top-grade 300Bs again.


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> I just received my Takatsuki 300Bs tonight.  Beautiful tube for starters.
> 
> Out of the box and into the amp, they don't glow much!  All that light is housed deep inside.  Visually, the light show on the Elrog puts the Taks to shame.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for posting your early impressions of the Tak 300B's vs the Elrog's. 
  
 I have similar feelings to you on the Elrog's, we need companies to invest in making expensive tubes like the 300B's and it would be a crying shame if Elrog threw in the towel at this stage, they have caught a fair amount of bad publicity on the web. Audio Asylum has some quite negative threads devoted to them. The rest of their tubes are okay and there is not much if any negativity about them, it seems to be mainly  the 300B's. Lets hope that the new shipment, scheduled to arrive in Australia in the 1st of May does not have any issues. 
  
 I was looking through my emails to see what comments Jack Wu has made about them and the only technical info is he says a typical 300B handles 400v plate but the 234 uses 320v.
  
 I do not know have sufficient technical knowledge to comment, but I wonder if it a spec issue. I wrote to Thomas Mayer the US distributor, he had this to say:
  
_"I sold well over 100 pairs Elrog 300Bs and I never ever had a problem with the base._
_Most of the failures had been caused by poorly designed filament supplies which had too much inrush current."_
  
_A recent photo_


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> "I just received my Takatsuki 300Bs tonight.  Beautiful tube for starters.
> 
> The Taks, however, are a bit bright on the HE1000.  I'm expecting this to settle a bit as the tubes break in.  For instance on Hugh Masekela's masterpiece "The Coal Train" the bell and his train wails border on screeching.  This is something that will typically settle and smooth out during break-in.  I'm not concerned.
> 
> The Taks are fine 300Bs, no question.  Intimate.  But I narrowly prefer the Elrogs, at least out of the box."


 
  
 
The Tak's take a long time before they show their best, when I look back at my running time chart, the Tak's first started showing some improvement at 125 hours, at 195 hours I have them noted as "1st signs of magic" then at 280 hours they really began to change and finally settled down and were magic at 320 hours with no more changes noted from there. If you look back a few posts I posted an excerpt of an interview with the head of Western Electric, they are also well known for taking up to 500 hours before the full magic develops. What drivers and rectifiers are you using?
 
When the Tak's first arrived a friend who 234's also kept notes re the burn in progress and we compared at the time when we both agreed that they had fully stabilised. Our notes were similar, Tony Newman also bought a set off me and then a new set and arrived at similar conclusions. Please if you can keep a log during the burn in process it will be very interesting to see if you have a similar experience. I can email you a copy of my burn in spreadsheet if you PM me your email.
 
There are stages during burn in when they sound horrible but they quickly pass, they are a world class 300B IMHO.


----------



## jhljhl

isquirrel said:


> Sorry I am not familiar with the WA5, do you have high and low Plate settings and or a Cathode option so you can tailor them to low or high impedance headphones?


 

 Doesn't have it.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> They do look very cool, and the adapters are great quality.
> 
> I 100% agree with you on your comments, in fact in every respect except for the bass they are exceptional. I should check with Matt and see if he is using them.
> 
> *Anyone else here running C3G's and can comment?*


 
  
 I bought the C3G/Adapters from Jack (probably one of the first pairs) to use my my original version WA5-LE.
 To my ears I gained in detail and soundstage presentation at the cost of bass. Talking to Jack during Axpona he confirmed to me that would happened and said also that the amp would have to be redesign to take full advantage of the tube.


----------



## Khragon

musicman59 said:


> I bought the C3G/Adapters from Jack (probably one of the first pairs) to use my my original version WA5-LE.
> To my ears I gained in detail and soundstage presentation at the cost of bass. Talking to Jack during Axpona he confirmed to me that would happened and said also that the amp would have to be redesign to take full advantage of the tube.


 

 I guess from all the hints Jack has been giving (and they fact that they got a stock full of C3gs), that Woo have a C3g based tube coming.. not sure if it will be with 300B power tubes, should be interesting.


----------



## Rossliew

Other than Woo, where can one purchase the Tak 300Bs?


----------



## leftside

khragon said:


> I guess from all the hints Jack has been giving (and they fact that they got a stock full of C3gs), that Woo have a C3g based tube coming.. not sure if it will be with 300B power tubes, should be interesting.


 
 Agreed.


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> I bought the C3G/Adapters from Jack (probably one of the first pairs) to use my my original version WA5-LE.
> To my ears I gained in detail and soundstage presentation at the cost of bass. Talking to Jack during Axpona he confirmed to me that would happened and said also that the amp would have to be redesign to take full advantage of the tube.


 

 It is less noticeable in classical but with rock, pop etc there is more of a drop-off of upper-midrange/sub-bass.  I assume due to the drop off of gain and general design for the 6sn7.


----------



## reeltime

rossliew said:


> Other than Woo, where can one purchase the Tak 300Bs?


 
  
 pricejapan.com


----------



## Khragon

jhljhl said:


> It is less noticeable in classical but with rock, pop etc there is more of a drop-off of upper-midrange/sub-bass.  I assume due to the drop off of gain and general design for the 6sn7.




I believe Glenn mentioned that even best 5U4 the rectifiers do not have enough power reserve compared to PY500A. I wouldn't mind a good designed well built solid state power supply to ensure enough power goes to the tubes.


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> What drivers and rectifiers are you using?


 
  
 GZ-34 metal base rectifiers.  6F8G driver.  I have Tung Sol round plate 6SN7s on the way.  Should be here Thursday or Friday.
  
 Interesting note:  The construction (fabrication, parts and layout) of the Tak looks identical to the PSVane 300B.  The Elrog and EML 300Bs are very different in their construction.


----------



## 3083joe

Just a heads up but will probably be selling the wa22 and the mass amount of tubes I have in the next few weeks.


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> Just a heads up but will probably be selling the wa22 and the mass amount of tubes I have in the next few weeks.


 

 Boooooo,
  
 You will be missed here bud.


----------



## Rossliew

Is the WA22 good for low impedance cans or high impedance or both?

@3083joe, how much will u be pricing the WA22 and tubes?


----------



## thecrow

3083joe said:


> Just a heads up but will probably be selling the wa22 and the mass amount of tubes I have in the next few weeks.


I'm sure it won't be too hard to sell off stuff here

Including any Gec 6as7g pairs if there's any (I'd be interested)


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Is the WA22 good for low impedance cans or high impedance or both?


 
  
 Both.
  
 I have the original LCD-3 (high impedance) and LCD-X (low impedance). Both sound great on the WA22.


----------



## 3083joe

thecrow said:


> I'm sure it won't be too hard to sell off stuff here
> 
> Including any Gec 6as7g pairs if there's any (I'd be interested)



Yes 
As well as tak274, several ecc35, and versions of TSRPs, and one pair of 5998s and a gz34 metal base


----------



## Rossliew

3083joe said:


> Yes
> As well as tak274, several ecc35, and versions of TSRPs, and one pair of 5998s and a gz34 metal base




Could you PM me your asking price for the amp and tubes please? Thanks


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> Both.
> 
> I have the original LCD-3 (high impedance) and LCD-X (low impedance). Both sound great on the WA22.




Thanks Dono. Wonder if it will pair well with 600ohm Beyers as well


----------



## Krutsch

3083joe said:


> Just a heads up but will probably be *selling the wa22 and the mass amount of tubes *I have in the next few weeks.


 
  
 Just curious... what are you moving to?


----------



## 3083joe

krutsch said:


> Just curious... what are you moving to?



Was going to Glenn's 300 but I'm going ss v281


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Could you PM me your asking price for the amp and tubes please? Thanks


 

 Me as well please?


----------



## Badas

My amp didn't blow last night. Whew!
 After me being stupid with DeOxit.
  
 I took better photos of the black tube savers. As I said I like that they match the Glenn made adapters.
  

  

  
 I know it is only cosmetic but when we pay big $$'s for stuff to me it is important to keep them looking good.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> My amp didn't blow last night. Whew!
> After me being stupid with DeOxit.
> 
> I took better photos of the black tube savers. As I said I like that they match the Glenn made adapters.
> ...


 
  
 That looks great


----------



## Porteroso

3083joe said:


> krutsch said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious... what are you moving to?
> ...


 
 I hope you have fun. I bet you will. Tubes are great, but you need to spend a lot. The 281 takes a lot of money to equal or especially beat.


----------



## Contrails

> Was going to Glenn's 300 but I'm going ss v281


 
  
 I am surprised people are not going from WA22 to Apex Teton.  It uses the same tubes as the WA22 and is one of the best sounding OTL amps out there.  
  
 Review by Dubstep Girl: http://headphone.guru/the-apex-teton-the-ultimate-otl/


----------



## jhljhl

porteroso said:


> I hope you have fun. I bet you will. Tubes are great, but you need to spend a lot. The 281 takes a lot of money to equal or especially beat.


 
  


3083joe said:


> Was going to Glenn's 300 but I'm going ss v281


 
  
 The Auralic stack could be an end game rig especially for classical or jazz. However, I think it is the harmonics of tubes that I find a little more pleasant- guitar amps are the same I think but the technology may have advanced and the euphony may get close though.


----------



## 3083joe

Forgot to mention
6n7G with adapters. 2 pairs


----------



## ken6217

contrails said:


> I am surprised people are not going from WA22 to Apex Teton.  It uses the same tubes as the WA22 and is one of the best sounding OTL amps out there.
> 
> Review by Dubstep Girl: http://headphone.guru/the-apex-teton-the-ultimate-otl/


 

 You won't get the same bass as you will from the V281.


----------



## MIKELAP

rossliew said:


> Is the WA22 good for low impedance cans or high impedance or both?
> 
> @3083joe, how much will u be pricing the WA22 and tubes?


 
 With the WA22 I use the 300 ohm Senns HD800 and also the 48 ohm Fostex TH500RP planars and of the amps i own i like most the Fostex with the WA22 and the Burson Conductor an SS amp


----------



## 3083joe

rossliew said:


> Is the WA22 good for low impedance cans or high impedance or both?
> 
> @3083joe, how much will u be pricing the WA22 and tubes?



Probably about 1500 shipped and PayPal fee USA


----------



## pippen99

Just received Brimar 5Z4GY from Langrex.  Now in my WA5 warming up.  I seem to recall that these tubes need little burn-in.  Is this correct and how soon will they be prime?


----------



## Badas

pippen99 said:


> Just received Brimar 5Z4GY from Langrex.  Now in my WA5 warming up.  I seem to recall that these tubes need little burn-in.  Is this correct and how soon will they be prime?


 

 I've found they don't need much burn in. Others might disagree. However I find them great from startup.


----------



## fhuang

rossliew said:


> Thanks Dono. Wonder if it will pair well with 600ohm Beyers as well


 
  
  
 i heard my balanced t1 with my friend's wa22 and it was very very good.


----------



## isquirrel

rossliew said:


> Other than Woo, where can one purchase the Tak 300Bs?


 

 Price Japan, they offer a really good service, I have bought a number of sets from them and they ship via FedEx and they also are very kind with their invoices for customs etc. I saved a substantial amount compared to anywhere else. A number of people on this thread have used them with no issues. They ship in the original boxes and pack them well.
  
  
 http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1255&category=17


----------



## Rossliew

fhuang said:


> i heard my balanced t1 with my friend's wa22 and it was very very good.




Thanks for that. Helps wih the decision making 



isquirrel said:


> Price Japan, they offer a really good service, I have bought a number of sets from them and they ship via FedEx and they also are very kind with their invoices for customs etc. I saved a substantial amount compared to anywhere else. A number of people on this thread have used them with no issues. They ship in the original boxes and pack them well.
> 
> 
> http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1255&category=17




Appreciate the link. Shall check them out and with Japan being near to Malaysia, I hope shipping charges will be lower.


----------



## isquirrel

reeltime said:


> GZ-34 metal base rectifiers.  6F8G driver.  I have Tung Sol round plate 6SN7s on the way.  Should be here Thursday or Friday.
> 
> Interesting note:  The construction (fabrication, parts and layout) of the Tak looks identical to the PSVane 300B.  The Elrog and EML 300Bs are very different in their construction.


 

 Probably as they have stuck with the original Western Electric base design. There is no comparison in sound or build quality though the Tak's are better built than any other 300B, although the glass is very good it is not as good as the Elrog.


----------



## isquirrel

rossliew said:


> Thanks for that. Helps wih the decision making
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Generally I have paid about $3,800 AUD all up including shipping so thats $2880 USD for the set including a pair of 274B's. I don't what other charge?


----------



## isquirrel

This may surprise some people here and I ma open to nay suggestions. But I am getting a better sound out of the Abyss using the Chord DAVE  DAC/AMP combo directly than I am out of my Woo 234's, I have tried a number of different tubes and haven't finished yet with experimenting but that's how its looking. The DAVE and Abyss are a magical combination.


----------



## joseph69

For anyone just joining this thread it seems like a lot of people are moving away from their tube amps and going/preferring SS!


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> For anyone just joining this thread it seems like a lot of people are moving away from their tube amps and going/preferring SS!


 

 When I look at the cost of maintaining a good tube setup and the constant fiddling, which I must admit is enjoyable VS the plug and go for the SS. The beauty of the new designs we are seeing with DAC's able to drive headphones directly is a potent combination and the sound is that much more transparent and enjoyable.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> When I look at the cost of maintaining a good tube setup and the constant fiddling, which I must admit is enjoyable VS the plug and go for the SS. The beauty of the new designs we are seeing with DAC's able to drive headphones directly is a potent combination and the sound is that much more transparent and enjoyable.


 
 I totally understand, which is why I'm very content with my WA6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 An expensive tube amp is definitely high maintenance.


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> I totally understand, which is why I'm very content with my WA6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would hate to sit down and add it up, it would have to in the region of $5000 a year just in tubes alone. The other thing is that these new DAC's like the MSB Select and the Chord DAVE which can power headphones directly have a dynamic range up around 150dB plus, the Select ir closer to 190dB so the moment you attach a tube amp you cut that in half at least!


----------



## Khragon

Problem with tube amps is that there are no good modern in production tubes (besides 300B) so you ended up having to buy NOS and since they don't last forever you have to stock up. It's those things that made owning tube amps expensive.


----------



## isquirrel

khragon said:


> Problem with tube amps is that there are no good modern in production tubes (besides 300B) so you ended up having to buy NOS and since they don't last forever you have to stock up. It's those things that made owning tube amps expensive.


 

 Agreed, while all the time telling myself that my expanding collection of NOS tubes will "someday be worth a fortune".


----------



## Badas

isquirrel said:


> Agreed, while all the time telling myself that my expanding collection of NOS tubes will "someday be worth a fortune".


 

 I'm wondering about that. It could come to a crashing end for a number of reasons.
  
 1. Better SS tech. Which we are now seeing.
 2. NOS supplies dry up and everyone gives up on tubes.


----------



## phase0

How long does the typical NOS tube last for? I was hearing around 5000 hrs. While on the other hand something like the metal base GZ-34 could be 100,000 hrs and still going? From what I've collected in just a couple months I think I could be all set for 10-20 years if I could get 5 yrs out of a set.
  
 If everyone started dumping their tube amps it seems like there would be a spike in people also dumping their tube stashes and some good tubes would be available for sale again for a short time. Then again if it's just a person here or there the trickle might not be noticeable. There's always new stock like Sophia Electric tho the reviews I read said they're over priced for the sound. I don't think there will be a hard crash yet. If I could get same sound as my WA5 out of my iPhone then I would really not want to have some giant amp sitting around.
  
 Rumors that a guy here who sold his Woo amp already got another tube amp. Just can't stay away. That seems to me to say that SS isn't necessarily going to make everyone wish they didn't buy their tube amp. I'm at least going to demo the V281. Since the reviews are so pos+ I expect I'll like it and there's a good chance I'll keep it. I wish I could afford a Chord Dave, only heard +pos stuff about that one too.
  
 Anyways, the WA5 being my first tube amp I don't hardly feel qualified to compare and say what is/isn't the best. I've had a lot of fun these past few months with it and getting new tubes. I really enjoy the sound I have with it right now. I was hoping it would be end game and that was it for me now and forever...


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> How long does the typical NOS tube last for? I was hearing around 5000 hrs. While on the other hand something like the metal base GZ-34 could be 100,000 hrs and still going? From what I've collected in just a couple months I think I could be all set for 10-20 years if I could get 5 yrs out of a set.
> 
> If everyone started dumping their tube amps it seems like there would be a spike in people also dumping their tube stashes and some good tubes would be available for sale again for a short time. Then again if it's just a person here or there the trickle might not be noticeable. There's always new stock like Sophia Electric tho the reviews I read said they're over priced for the sound. I don't think there will be a hard crash yet. If I could get same sound as my WA5 out of my iPhone then I would really not want to have some giant amp sitting around.
> 
> ...


 

 About 5000 hours. I do about 1000 hours per year. So about 5 years.
  
 Hey vinyl is still around. So tubes will be as well.
  
 There use to be a time tho that tubes produced the best sound. Especially the holographic and silky sound. Simply put that is no longer the case. *cough* V281 *cough*.
 So for enthusiast that want the best they no longer have to chase tubes. That is troubling for tubes and tube amps.


----------



## Khragon

My problem was that I noticed I spent way too much money and time to ensure that I wouldn't have to downgrade sound quality in case one of my favorite tube died. After a while I looked at the stash and think 'geez I could of gotten another nice DAC or SS amp with that money', that's when I started looking into Glenn 300B since the tubes there costs fraction compared to WA5, can't get away from 300Bs, but don't have to stock up either, as great in production tubes are available. The PY500A rectifier on Glenn cost literally $1 to $2 each, compared to $400 - $1000 for a good 5U4G. C3gs too were much cheaper compared to 6sn7 (may not be true any more).

I think Woo could do the hobby a favor by producing some themselves and price it reasonably.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> I would hate to sit down and add it up, it would have to in the region of $5000 a year just in tubes alone. The other thing is that these new DAC's like the MSB Select and the Chord DAVE which can power headphones directly have a dynamic range up around 150dB plus, the Select ir closer to 190dB so the moment you attach a tube amp you cut that in half at least!


 





 I spent a bit on tubes myself for the WA6 (but not $5K a year) and I'm done trying/buying tubes at this point…for sure.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ...
> 
> There use to be a time tho that tubes produced the best sound. *Especially the holographic and silky sound.* Simply put that is no longer the case. **cough* V281 *cough*.*
> ...


 
  
 I feel like every thread has references to that amp... is it really that good and have you had a chance to audition one @Badas ?
  
 Just curious... 
  
 Oh, and "...I'll give you my tubes when you pry them from my cold, dead hands."


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> I feel like every thread has references to that amp...* is it really that good and have you had a chance to audition one @Badas ?*
> 
> Just curious...
> 
> Oh, and "...I'll give you my tubes when you pry them from my cold, dead hands."


 
  
 Yes it is that good and yes I have listened to it a lot. A few months ago I posted a shootout between it and the WA22. Tony and I spent a whole afternoon on the shootout. The WA22 got owned.


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> Probably as they have stuck with the original Western Electric base design. There is no comparison in sound or build quality though the Tak's are better built than any other 300B, although the glass is very good it is not as good as the Elrog.


 

 Agree.


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> When I look at the cost of maintaining a good tube setup and the constant fiddling, which I must admit is enjoyable VS the plug and go for the SS. The beauty of the new designs we are seeing with DAC's able to drive headphones directly is a potent combination and the sound is that much more transparent and enjoyable.


 

 The HE-1000 direct out of the Chord Hugo TT is not as nice as out of the WA5LE.  The Hugo TT is a quality DAC/AMP though, and when my WA5LE blew a transformer, it more than kept me entertained while I was waiting for my WA5LE v2.


----------



## leftside

As someone who has recently moved from a ss amp to a tube amp I'm going to respectively disagree. Yes, I've spent a lot of time and effort (and money) on the tube amp and tubes, but it's been totally worth it. I now have 3 sets of tubes (3 * 2 drivers, 3 * 2 power and 3 * 1 rectifiers) that I absolutely love. In hindsight I spent too much time, effort and money on tube rolling, but I do have a nice collection of tubes that I don't imagine will go down in value too much. For example, you could simply go with a nicely used set of Mullard ECCxx's, TS 5998 and a GZ 34 and be done with it.
  
 I think the biggest problem with tubes amps is "us". As we all seem to be into high-end audio, this also implies a case of perfectionism and possibly a slight case of OCD. These traits certainly apply to me, and it hurt my pocket in the ss world and hurt my pocket even more in the tube world.


----------



## phase0

krutsch said:


> I feel like every thread has references to that amp... is it really that good and have you had a chance to audition one @Badas ?
> 
> Just curious...
> 
> Oh, and "...I'll give you my tubes when you pry them from my cold, dead hands."


 
  
 Hey man, lets be friends here. How are you feeling? Are you going to die soon? Maybe you can write me into your will to receive your tubes


----------



## phase0

leftside said:


> I think the biggest problem with tubes amps is "us". As we all seem to be into high-end audio, this also implies a case of perfectionism and possibly a slight case of OCD. These traits certainly apply to me, and it hurt my pocket in the ss world and hurt my pocket even more in the tube world.


 
  
 Nails it right there. I already think tube audio and especially headphone tube audio is a niche and an expensive one. The avg is probably listening on the iPhone buds that came with the phone.


----------



## thecrow

badas said:


> Yes it is that good and yes I have listened to it a lot. A few months ago I posted a shootout between it and the WA22. Tony and I spent a whole afternoon on the shootout. The WA22 got owned.



Owned???

I thought you said in your review it came up a little ahead. 

Give my little wa2 a break. 
Fies the v281 light up and say hello like the wa22 does?
Does the glow warm your heart like the wa22 does?
Does it let you play with tubes and get out the deoxit and make it sparked like the wa22 does?

Does it crackle and go "ping" and hum like the wa22 does?
Does it make tubes explode and make you feel lucky that you're still alive that a tube amp does?

No!


----------



## Badas

thecrow said:


> Owned???
> 
> I thought you said in your review it came up a little ahead.
> 
> ...




Nice post. A lot of those reasons is why I stick with tubes.

Eventually tho I will get the V281 or better and own both.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> Nice post. A lot of those reasons is why I stick with tubes.
> 
> Eventually tho I will get the V281 or better and own both.



Agree with you both but it's time for me. 
May still get a Glenn 300B also but that's a few months down the road.


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Agree with you both but it's time for me.
> May still get a Glenn 300B also but that's a few months down the road.


 

 Having a pair is a good idea. SS can't replicate the harmonic distortion of tubes.


----------



## u2u2

3083joe said:


> Agree with you both but it's time for me.
> May still get a Glenn 300B also but that's a few months down the road.


 

 I may never get an opportunity to hear a V281 but from what is available on line it looks like a killer amp. If I ever decide to upgrade my SS kit I could even see a blind buy.  You are making a huge jump by committing to sell your tube collection up front. An amp can be replaced, a tube collection is not so easy. You are a man who knows how to commit! Please let us know what options you settle on and what your findings are once you have some time with the new amp. I hope it meets your expectations and more. Thank you for your contributions to the Woo community.


----------



## Stereolab42

The reason to own a tube amp is not because of sound but because of art. The act of owning and listening to them is a lifestyle and a philosophical statement.


----------



## ken6217

stereolab42 said:


> The reason to own a tube amp is not because of sound but because of art. The act of owning and listening to them is a lifestyle and a philosophical statement.




You might as well use earbuds too if sound isn't important. You can save all of the money you would have spent on good sounding headphones and put it towards pretty tubes.


----------



## leftside

It's all about the sound for me. The nice looking tubes simply make it an easier purchase as these are "wife approved" (romantic  )


----------



## reeltime

I think tube amps are a bit warmer and a more open than solid state amps.  I think solid state is more detailed than tube amps.  That's my general opinion, of course there are exceptions.  
  
 Is it not interesting that we go on searches for tubes that are nearly 70 years old in an attempt to get the best sound possible out of our rigs?  
  
 In the era of Moore's law, that's quite an amazing proposition.  
  
 Folks who designed and fabricated these bits of wire and glass long before we were born had a better grasp on what they were creating than the generations that followed.  Impressive.
  
 I just got my 1940 Tung Sol round plate 6SN7s today.  I'm not changing drivers again until these blow up.  I'm done.  They're stunning and they're not coming out of my WA5LE.  
  
 1940.  Made before the U.S. got into WWII.  Process that on your iPad.


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> I think tube amps are a bit warmer and a more open than solid state amps.  I think solid state is more detailed than tube amps.  That's my general opinion, of course there are exceptions.
> 
> Is it not interesting that we go on searches for tubes that are nearly 70 years old in an attempt to get the best sound possible out of our rigs?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tubes have 2nd order harmonic distortion that transistors can't replicate.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Nice post. A lot of those reasons is why I stick with tubes.
> 
> Eventually tho I will get the V281 or better *and own both.*


 
  
 I've adopted that position, from a lower-end perspective.
  
 I frequently switch between my Lehmann Rhinelander and Woo WA3, because variety is the spice of life and these are very different sounding amps. I've been at this long enough to admit to myself that sometimes "different" is enough to sound "better" and it keeps things fun.
  
 Same thing with 'phones.


----------



## 3083joe

Must tell everyone before I get rid of all tubes that the 6su7gt have great tight base. And they are round plates sounding very much the same as 6sn7 TSRPs 
Worth the $50 a pair.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Must tell everyone before I get rid of all tubes that the 6su7gt have great tight base. And they are round plates sounding very much the same as 6sn7 TSRPs
> Worth the $50 a pair.


 
 Do these tubes use the 6SN7 adapter?


----------



## 3083joe

Oh and v281 ordered and shipped. Hope to catch post man Saturday and I can compare wa22 and v281


----------



## ken6217

joseph69 said:


> Do these tubes use the 6SN7 adapter?


 

 Base or bass?


----------



## 3083joe

ken6217 said:


> Base or bass?



Sorry bass
"I'm tired."


----------



## 3083joe

joseph69 said:


> Do these tubes use the 6SN7 adapter?



No adapter needed plug and play driver


----------



## ken6217

3083joe said:


> Sorry bass
> "I'm tired."


 

 I know. I was just pulling your tube.


----------



## joseph69

3083joe said:


> Oh and v281 ordered and shipped. Hope to catch post man Saturday and I can compare wa22 and v281


 
 Nice…can't wait to hear your impressions.
  


ken6217 said:


> Base or bass?


 
 Wrong post quote. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


3083joe said:


> No adapter needed plug and play driver


 
 Thanks.
  


ken6217 said:


> I know. I was just pulling your tube.


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> Oh and v281 ordered and shipped. Hope to catch post man Saturday and I can compare wa22 and v281


 
 Cool looking forward to your impressions..


----------



## Bitten by Bug

3083joe said:


> Oh and v281 ordered and shipped. Hope to catch post man Saturday and I can compare wa22 and v281


 

 Enjoy!  That should be a nice change up. Please do share your impressions! Compare and contrast can be very telling.


----------



## 3083joe

u2u2 said:


> I may never get an opportunity to hear a V281 but from what is available on line it looks like a killer amp. If I ever decide to upgrade my SS kit I could even see a blind buy.  You are making a huge jump by committing to sell your tube collection up front. An amp can be replaced, a tube collection is not so easy. You are a man who knows how to commit! Please let us know what options you settle on and what your findings are once you have some time with the new amp. I hope it meets your expectations and more. Thank you for your contributions to the Woo community.



Thanks my friend. 
If I go back it will be with a Glenn 300B and most all the tubes I have will not work in it. 
Tak300B, py500, c3g probably


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Hi guys, I've been doing some reading and come up with a somewhat lengthy list of tubes for a wa22 that interest me but still not sure which combination i should go with. I'm worried about buying the best tubes now only to then replace them years later with something lesser sounding because they've become too rare. 
  
 Power- Chatham 6as7g / Tung sol 5998's/ Russian Winged "C' 6as7g 
 Driver- TSRP 6sn7 / Sylvania 6SN7GT VT231 / Hytron CBS 6sn7gt
 Rectifier-  Psvane we274b replica / EML 274b mesh / Brimar 5Z4GY
  
 The 6sn7's seems to be totally over priced nowadays.
  
 More importantly i don't know where to source them. http://www.vacuumtubes.net/ seems to have most listed but I'm not sure if they're credible. I definitely want to stay away from eBay. 
  
 2.5k pages -.-


----------



## Badas

chrisisawesome said:


> Hi guys, I've been doing some reading and come up with a somewhat lengthy list of tubes for a wa22 that interest me but still not sure which combination i should go with. I'm worried about buying the best tubes now only to then replace them years later with something lesser sounding because they've become too rare.
> 
> Power- Chatham 6as7g / Tung sol 5998's/ Russian Winged "C' 6as7g
> Driver- TSRP 6sn7 / Sylvania 6SN7GT VT231 / Hytron CBS 6sn7gt
> ...




Drop the Winged C (piece of rubbish (just my opinion)) and add a 6BL7 instead (far nicer tube).
Everything else looks okay/great.

You will likely have to deal with eSlay. Unfortunately that is where the action is at.


----------



## leftside

All those should be good. The only ones I don't know about are the Russian. I have a Brimar 5Z4GY to try this weekend. Highly regarded on here. The listed 6SN7's all sound pretty good to me.


----------



## 3083joe

Got mad tubes up for sale. 
Hit me up.


----------



## ymc226

My black WA5-LE is arriving Monday.  Looking at the webpage, there are selections of HIGH or LOW headphone POWER output, HIGH or LOW  IMPEDANCE and HIGH or LOW LEVEL headphone output.
  
 I understand the impedance (will be using LOW for my Beyerdynamic T5p) but what is with difference between POWER and LEVEL?


----------



## jhljhl

3083joe said:


> Got mad tubes up for sale.
> Hit me up.


 
  
  
 How is the v281? Large amp must have lots of power.


----------



## jhljhl

ymc226 said:


> My black WA5-LE is arriving Monday.  Looking at the webpage, there are selections of HIGH or LOW headphone POWER output, HIGH or LOW  IMPEDANCE and HIGH or LOW LEVEL headphone output.
> 
> I understand the impedance (will be using LOW for my Beyerdynamic T5p) but what is with difference between POWER and LEVEL?


 
 Check this review out:
 https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## ymc226

jhljhl said:


> Check this review out:
> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/


 

 Thanks jhljhl, that was a great read!


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> How is the v281? Large amp must have lots of power.



Good so far. 
Lots of power for sure.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Langrex shipping has improved. The last order arrived in 9 days, the fastest of 5 shipments dispatched.  Good job!  Saw that they had some NOS 6SN7WGT JAN Sylvania and had to get them.  I have been pleased with other NOS Sylvania driver/power valves.


----------



## joseph69

bitten by bug said:


> Langrex shipping has improved. The last order arrived in 9 days, the fastest of 5 shipments dispatched.  Good job!  Saw that they had some NOS 6SN7WGT JAN Sylvania and had to get them.  I have been pleased with other NOS Sylvania driver/power valves.


 
 I also enjoy the NIS Sylvania 6SN7-WGT/A JAN as well.


----------



## ymc226

Regarding the WA5-LE, is the 6SL7 driver a direct substitute for the 6SN7 without the need for an adapter?
  
 If so, any recommendations on good tubes to look for?


----------



## 3083joe

Ecc35


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I've been listening to the Sines with Cypher cable and the TH900 with the WA6 recently. This afternoon, I went back to the WA22 with LCD-X and everything was clicking -- this combo puts my other setups to shame. Running WE422A, TS BGRP 6F8G, TS5998. Source is Yggdrasil.


----------



## u2u2

bitten by bug said:


> Langrex shipping has improved. The last order arrived in 9 days, the fastest of 5 shipments dispatched.  Good job!  Saw that they had some NOS 6SN7WGT JAN Sylvania and had to get them.  I have been pleased with other NOS Sylvania driver/power valves.


 

 I find they always do their part by shipping quickly. Then it is up to the post office and lately the PO to Canada has not been good. Last Langrex order I did was by courier. Tracked, left on Monday, in my hands Wednesday. I saw they added some NOS 6SN7WGT Raytheons and 6SN7GT GE to their line. Ordered two pair of each and passed on the Sylvania tubes as I already have a good selection of that brand. The tubes arrived in mint condition and sound excellent. So good I went to order more but the Raytheons are already gone... Doing some rolling comparing them to Tung-Sol mouse ears and Sylvania VT-231. Good value in many of the offerings from Langrex. They ship what they claim and they stand behind what they ship. Totally reliable source.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

u2u2 said:


> I find they always do their part by shipping quickly. Then it is up to the post office and lately the PO to Canada has not been good. Last Langrex order I did was by courier. Tracked, left on Monday, in my hands Wednesday. I saw they added some NOS 6SN7WGT Raytheons and 6SN7GT GE to their line. Ordered two pair of each and passed on the Sylvania tubes as I already have a good selection of that brand. The tubes arrived in mint condition and sound excellent. So good I went to order more but the Raytheons are already gone... Doing some rolling comparing them to Tung-Sol mouse ears and Sylvania VT-231. Good value in many of the offerings from Langrex. They ship what they claim and they stand behind what they ship. Totally reliable source.


 

 Glad you are enjoying your new valves.  Did not notice a courier option the last eBay purchase, but that seems to be a very good idea to keep in mind for the future.  Thanks.


----------



## ymc226

3083joe said:


> Ecc35


 

 Thanks Joe.  I assume no need for adapters?


----------



## u2u2

bitten by bug said:


> Glad you are enjoying your new valves.  Did not notice a courier option the last eBay purchase, but that seems to be a very good idea to keep in mind for the future.  Thanks.


 

 I generally avoid eBay for other than research purposes although the future is pointing me towards it. Most things I order for delivery I set up by email. Often a company has more variety of product available than you expect and just as often a better price can be had. Langrex, like most outfits will use a courier if you ask. They use DHL and the service was as good as I have ever had. Going down the list of tube sellers I have used and I can say every one of them, no exception, has helped me out in some way that would not have happened if I had not reached out by email. I have been trying to get a local, or at least in country, line on a tube tester so I would be more at ease with eBay purchases. No luck so far...


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> I've been listening to the Sines with Cypher cable and the TH900 with the WA6 recently. This afternoon, I went back to the WA22 with LCD-X and everything was clicking -- this combo puts my other setups to shame. Running WE422A, TS BGRP 6F8G, TS5998. Source is Yggdrasil.


 
  
 Sexy photos. Great looking amp. Stella tube setup.


----------



## reeltime

u2u2 said:


> I generally avoid eBay for other than research purposes although the future is pointing me towards it.


 
  
 I never buy from anyone who doesn't have a reasonable number of sales with good satisfaction.  Another thing to look for is someone who sells this type of item all the time, look at past sales.  
  
 I buy and sell nearly all of my audio gear used on eBay.  New is just not worth it to me.  I picked up an AK240 for $1400, a WA5LE for $1700, a Chord Hugo TT for $2900.  
  
 I've made a few exceptions, Taks don't often show up on eBay, for instance, but generally used on eBay is the way to go, in my opinion.  Everything except my 300B tubes were NOS eBay purchases.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

u2u2 said:


> I generally avoid eBay for other than research purposes although the future is pointing me towards it. Most things I order for delivery I set up by email. Often a company has more variety of product available than you expect and just as often a better price can be had. Langrex, like most outfits will use a courier if you ask. They use DHL and the service was as good as I have ever had. Going down the list of tube sellers I have used and I can say every one of them, no exception, has helped me out in some way that would not have happened if I had not reached out by email. I have been trying to get a local, or at least in country, line on a tube tester so I would be more at ease with eBay purchases. No luck so far...


 
  
  
 There is merit to your practices with the added benefit of uncovering opportunities, like the Toshiba we both enjoy and both discovered the same way.  While I don't have any leads on a tube tester in Canada, I do agree with @reeltime to look at the reputation and history to see what has been sold previously and at what value.  If someone has just been purchasing cheap things to get a reputation, but has not sold $$$ items, I am not going to chance it for any $$$ item.
  


reeltime said:


> I never buy from anyone who doesn't have a reasonable number of sales with good satisfaction.  Another thing to look for is someone who sells this type of item all the time, look at past sales.


 
 Agreed!


----------



## Bitten by Bug

*Mail call today was exciting!*  The postman dropped off my NIB Benchmark DAC1 HDR!  Straight from unpacking and plugging in, this is a stunning winner.  Call me dumbfounded. It ratchets up the listening experience by profound levels. I am so pleased!  
  
 Correct, it is the latest iteration of the DAC1 series.  And this old headliner with technology from 7 years ago just resoundingly blew the latest Schitt Bifrost away.  Had no clue that the improvement was going to be so extreme!  Thought DAC upgrade would be mostly diminishing returns - wrong, wrong, wrong!  This is a huge change.  I expected it to be better but was clueless there would be of this significant magnitude.
  
 The sound from the preliminary listens with the Bifrost blew my mind too, but it compressed the sound stage and this was really starting to bug me.  I plugged the iPod Classic into the 6SE a few days ago to make sure I remembered correctly and sure enough, the iPod has a more significant sound stage.   My objective was to improve the sound stage with a different DAC.
  
 Upon discovery there are still NIB of the legendary Benchmarks, I leaped!
  
 Yeah, I am gushing and excited like a little kid!
  
 Of course, I loaded the 6SE deck with a WE422A and pair of Toshiba 6DE7 to see what it really has.  And boy oh boy does it have it!


----------



## phase0

bitten by bug said:


> Correct, it is the latest iteration of the DAC1 series.  And this old headliner with technology from 7 years ago just resoundingly blew the latest Schitt Bifrost away.  Had no clue that the improvement was going to be so extreme!  Thought DAC upgrade would be mostly diminishing returns - wrong, wrong, wrong!  This is a huge change.  I expected it to be better but was clueless there would be of this significant magnitude.


 
  
 Heh, that reminds me of last year when I upgraded from my RME Babyface which I thought was pretty good to the Mytek DAC. Same kind of reaction as you ^^^. I've always heard good things about the DAC1. When it came time to buy last year it seemed like more people preferred the Mytek (not that I knew anywhere to line them up and listen to them). I shouldn't be surprised but it's funny that you can get a great DAC for ~$1K and then there's DACs out there that sell for $90K+. I wonder how much better it is? Considering relative scale I'm pretty amazed with my lowend $1.5K DAC. Congrats on the big upgrade! I was shocked at what a difference mine made too.


----------



## thecrow

bitten by bug said:


> *Mail call today was exciting!*  The postman dropped off my NIB Benchmark DAC1 HDR!  Straight from unpacking and plugging in, this is a stunning winner.  Call me dumbfounded. It ratchets up the listening experience by profound levels. I am so pleased!
> 
> Correct, it is the latest iteration of the DAC1 series.  And this old headliner with technology from 7 years ago just resoundingly blew the latest Schitt Bifrost away.  Had no clue that the improvement was going to be so extreme!  Thought DAC upgrade would be mostly diminishing returns - wrong, wrong, wrong!  This is a huge change.  I expected it to be better but was clueless there would be of this significant magnitude.
> 
> ...


Nice. 

Enjoy.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> *Mail call today was exciting!*  The postman dropped off my NIB Benchmark DAC1 HDR!  Straight from unpacking and plugging in, this is a stunning winner.  Call me dumbfounded. It ratchets up the listening experience by profound levels. I am so pleased!
> 
> Correct, it is the latest iteration of the DAC1 series.  And this old headliner with technology from 7 years ago just resoundingly blew the latest Schitt Bifrost away.  Had no clue that the improvement was going to be so extreme!  Thought DAC upgrade would be mostly diminishing returns - wrong, wrong, wrong!  This is a huge change.  I expected it to be better but was clueless there would be of this significant magnitude.
> 
> ...




Congrats. I like stories like this. Exciting having new equipment.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

phase0 said:


> Heh, that reminds me of last year when I upgraded from my RME Babyface which I thought was pretty good to the Mytek DAC. Same kind of reaction as you ^^^. I've always heard good things about the DAC1. When it came time to buy last year it seemed like more people preferred the Mytek (not that I knew anywhere to line them up and listen to them). I shouldn't be surprised but it's funny that you can get a great DAC for ~$1K and then there's DACs out there that sell for $90K+. I wonder how much better it is? Considering relative scale I'm pretty amazed with my lowend $1.5K DAC. Congrats on the big upgrade! I was shocked at what a difference mine made too.


 
  
 Thank you, Thank you.  The only issue is that my 'quality or sound' paradigm has shifted!  Now to rediscover it.  But this is a good problem.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have no idea at what $$$ diminishing returns really kick in.  Hope to attend the CanJam in Denver in October and maybe I can see  :^) 
  


thecrow said:


> Nice.
> 
> Enjoy.


 
  
 Thank you. 
  




  


badas said:


> Congrats. I like stories like this. Exciting having new equipment.


 
  
 Indeed!  Glad to share good and exciting news!  IIRC you were pretty excited about your recent DAC upgrade too!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Was so lost in the music last night I failed to sample any lossless music.  Melody Gardot is filling that void now.  WOW!


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Indeed!  Glad to share good and exciting news!  IIRC you were pretty excited about your recent DAC upgrade too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I love my new DAC. I know there are new versions out there now. However I can't fault the Vega. It was a bigger upgrade than any tube could provide ever. 
  
 Funny. I listened to Melody Gardot's entire collection last night. Every album, every song. What are the odds? Yes I agree WOW! She has a concert Blu-ray being released in a few days. I've had it pre-ordered for a few months. Getting close. I can't wait.
  
 Vega, Woo WA22 and LCD-X were faultless. I wouldn't want to change a thing.


----------



## phase0

bitten by bug said:


> Thank you, Thank you.  The only issue is that my 'quality or sound' paradigm has shifted!  Now to rediscover it.  But this is a good problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you care about having any spare money don't go to RMAF (Or listen to anyone on head-fi).
  
 I just unboxed the V281 tonight. I was warned that I need to run it for minimum 50 hrs for burn in. Granted that, of course I'm going to listen to a couple things on it (and considering the WA5 from memory of what I'm used to hearing).
  
 First compliments to the V281. I can imagine if this was my first amp I might lose my appetite for an expensive tube amp. Second I don't think it's a WA5 killer. I'm a little bit relieved. I think my WA5 has all the bass and impact, most of the clarity, has a nice silky lushness, etc. If I was still running the stock tubes I think I might feel sad about my WA5 after hearing the V281, but the situation improves largely with some new tubes. Yea I have a little more hiss with the tubes, more power consumption, and warmup time. This first impression didn't make me suddenly hate and regret the WA5.
  
 I need to burn it in and it should get a little better. As times goes on I wonder which will get more play time. I like what I hear so I may have to keep it around. Fortunately there's enough room on this shelf for both amps... In a few days or maybe this weekend I'll try to do something more side-by-side listen to one amp and then on the other.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I love my new DAC. I know there are new versions out there now. However I can't fault the Vega. It was a bigger upgrade than any tube could provide ever.
> 
> Funny. I listened to Melody Gardot's entire collection last night. Every album, every song. What are the odds? Yes I agree WOW! She has a concert Blu-ray being released in a few days. I've had it pre-ordered for a few months. Getting close. I can't wait.
> 
> Vega, Woo WA22 and LCD-X were faultless. I wouldn't want to change a thing.


 
  
 I think you explained it there quite nicely.  Looking forward to learning your enjoyment of the new Blu-ray.
  


phase0 said:


> If you care about having any spare money don't go to RMAF (Or listen to anyone on head-fi).
> 
> I just unboxed the V281 tonight. I was warned that I need to run it for minimum 50 hrs for burn in. Granted that, of course I'm going to listen to a couple things on it (and considering the WA5 from memory of what I'm used to hearing).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the warning. The comfort of LCD-X still haunt me from SoCal Can Jam.
  
 Congrats on the new amp!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Am looking forward to your impressions as the burn-in continues!  I had my eye on the V281 wonder and it was a tough decision to venture into Woo land instead.  It came down to my only source at the time being an iPod classic.  Thought it would be overkill to have a balanced amp with no balanced input and that was why I did not go on the WA22 adventure either. Hope that both amps will compliment each other.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Uh oh - my lovely new DAC has balanced outputs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No excuses. The moths in my wallet are having a panic attack!
  
 Seriously, have fun and keep us up-to-date please.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> If you care about having any spare money don't go to RMAF (Or listen to anyone on head-fi).
> 
> I just unboxed the V281 tonight. I was warned that I need to run it for minimum 50 hrs for burn in. Granted that, of course I'm going to listen to a couple things on it (and considering the WA5 from memory of what I'm used to hearing).
> 
> ...


 

 The V281 cost about $2000 and the WA5 about $6000. If it were noticeably lacking than Woo Audio would be going out of business. (Though of course the market is probably in selling the lower priced amps.) Anyway, even though I consider my WA5le my reference headphone amp I still enjoy other amps (that don't cost as much) but sometimes just as much as I do my reference amp. The auralic stack was really nice esp for classical airy and transparent and a compliment to the lush romantic sound of the WA5 series.


----------



## phase0

jhljhl said:


> The V281 cost about $2000 and the WA5 about $6000. If it were noticeably lacking than Woo Audio would be going out of business. (Though of course the market is probably in selling the lower priced amps.) Anyway, even though I consider my WA5le my reference headphone amp I still enjoy other amps (that don't cost as much) but sometimes just as much as I do my reference amp. The auralic stack was really nice esp for classical airy and transparent and a compliment to the lush romantic sound of the WA5 series.


 
  
 IIRC, I read some review of the WA234 somewhere among a lot of amps in a roundup. They didn't have a lot to say about it other than the cost. But I remember a comment that when they were done with their review mode comparisons and sat down to enjoy some tunes at the end of the day, that they picked the Woo amp to do that on. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a couple amps. But does anyone really need two headphone amps side by side? Or is it a sign that you are going off the deep end? I'm not going to worry about it yet. It is fun to have a new toy though!


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> IIRC, I read some review of the WA234 somewhere among a lot of amps in a roundup. They didn't have a lot to say about it other than the cost. But I remember a comment that when they were done with their review mode comparisons and sat down to enjoy some tunes at the end of the day, that they picked the Woo amp to do that on. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a couple amps. But does anyone really need two headphone amps side by side? Or is it a sign that you are going off the deep end? I'm not going to worry about it yet. It is fun to have a new toy though!


 

 Less expensive amps can be just as enjoyable as expensive ones though not as technically superior.  I think since it isn't easy to audition at a retail store its inevitable to own several amps at once.  However in terms of economics if you have the budget no one faults a car, watch, wine etc. collector. In terms of morality, excess is never a good thing. But this is a forum not about economics or morality though those considerations are necessary more relevantly I just mean a WA2 can be as enjoyable as a WA5 though not as technically superior. I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## leftside

I just bought my third headphone amp. Two is fine, as I have two separate places for music, but one must go! There will be a shoot-out soon....


----------



## leftside

jhljhl said:


> However in terms of economics if you have the budget no one faults a car, watch, wine etc. collector. In terms of morality, excess is never a good thing.


 
 What about collecting tubes lol?


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> What about collecting tubes lol?


 

 Cost of ownership I guess? Like gas and oil changes to a car collector lol. Idk.


----------



## jerick70

I just became a proud owner of a Woo WA22.  What a huge upgrade from everything else I've owned!  As you can tell I'm very happy with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A question about rolling 6SN7 tubes.  Does anyone roll EL3N tubes with adapters in place of 6SN7 tubes?  I did this with my previous tube amp the Feliks Audio Elise and it worked perfectly.  When I roll these in I don't get any sound.  I'm using these adapters http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad . Do I need different adapters?
  
 -Jeff


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I just became a proud owner of a Woo WA22.  What a huge upgrade from everything else I've owned!  As you can tell I'm very happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats on the new amp. It is a great amp. I have a new found respect for it at the moment. Mine is singing beautifully.
  
 Woo does do things differently in some circuits. Especially drive circuits. Could be why they don't work.


----------



## 2359glenn

jerick70 said:


> I just became a proud owner of a Woo WA22.  What a huge upgrade from everything else I've owned!  As you can tell I'm very happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They will not work in the WA22
 With that adapter it is a single tube the WA22 is a push pull amp and needs a dual triode.


----------



## Porteroso

jerick70 said:


> I just became a proud owner of a Woo WA22.  What a huge upgrade from everything else I've owned!  As you can tell I'm very happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats. Tubes certainly have a charm about them that is hard to replicate with solid state. You'll find very few complaints about the Woo amps, they are built very well. I guess I do have a complaint about the price of the WA-5, if only it was about 15 bucks. But other than that.
  
 I think that we would all recommend, as far as 6SN7 goes, to skip it entirely, get a pair of 6F8G adapters, and use either 6F8G or 6C8G. Both are much cheaper than 6SN7, and the equivalents sound the same. Both National Union and Tung sols are great. RCA made a good sounding tube as well. The best of the 6SN7 has just gotten to be too ridiculously expensive. Hard to put a pair of driver tubes in your WA2 that cost almost as much as the amp. Definitely hard for me to consider it for my WA6.
  
 Anyways, enjoy the tube rolling. Please ask questions here, there is a wealth of information, and not many in this thread get grumpy about being asked the same questions. We like this hobby, and aside from the fact that new people getting into drive the prices of these old tubes up, we are happy to help you in any way we can. And before someone else says it, get the Brimar rectifier from Langrex. Get 4 in fact, just to future proof yourself.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> Congrats on the new amp. It is a great amp. I have a new found respect for it at the moment. Mine is singing beautifully.
> 
> Woo does do things differently in some circuits. Especially drive circuits. Could be why they don't work.


 
  
 Thanks @Badas for the warm welcome!  It is a fabulous amp.  I wish I would have purchased it a long time ago.
  
 Thank for the info.  I'll sell my EL3Ns and adapters so I can buy some better tubes.
  
 Quote:


2359glenn said:


> They will not work in the WA22
> With that adapter it is a single tube the WA22 is a push pull amp and needs a dual triode.


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up @2359glenn! I learn something new about this hobby all the time.
  


porteroso said:


> Congrats. Tubes certainly have a charm about them that is hard to replicate with solid state. You'll find very few complaints about the Woo amps, they are built very well. I guess I do have a complaint about the price of the WA-5, if only it was about 15 bucks. But other than that.
> 
> I think that we would all recommend, as far as 6SN7 goes, to skip it entirely, get a pair of 6F8G adapters, and use either 6F8G or 6C8G. Both are much cheaper than 6SN7, and the equivalents sound the same. Both National Union and Tung sols are great. RCA made a good sounding tube as well. The best of the 6SN7 has just gotten to be too ridiculously expensive. Hard to put a pair of driver tubes in your WA2 that cost almost as much as the amp. Definitely hard for me to consider it for my WA6.
> 
> Anyways, enjoy the tube rolling. Please ask questions here, there is a wealth of information, and not many in this thread get grumpy about being asked the same questions. We like this hobby, and aside from the fact that new people getting into drive the prices of these old tubes up, we are happy to help you in any way we can. And before someone else says it, get the Brimar rectifier from Langrex. Get 4 in fact, just to future proof yourself.


 
  
@Porteroso I know exactly what you mean.  I've tried going to SS and just can't shake off the glow of tubes.
  
 Will have to try some of these tubes.  Yeah prices are ridiculous on some of the 6SN7s.  How do 12AU7s with adapters play with the WA22?  
  
 The Brimars look like a steal.  We are talking about the 5Z4G BRIMAR correct?  $27 USD is a good price.  Much better than Takatsuki TA-274B for $965. I'll have to get some of the Brimars. 
  
I've already rolled in some different power tube, Chatham 6AS7Gs, and Sylvania 7236s and prefer the Chathams.  I'll give the Sylvanias another go later.  I'm enjoying the setup right now as is.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

New gear is fun @jerick70!  Must be a significant change from the WA7. Have fun rolling.


----------



## jerick70

bitten by bug said:


> New gear is fun @jerick70
> !  Must be a significant change from the WA7. Have fun rolling.




Indeed it is fun! Yes it is a big change. The WA7 is relegated to my work desk now.


----------



## phase0

jerick70 said:


> Indeed it is fun! Yes it is a big change. The WA7 is relegated to my work desk now.


 
  
 It's funny how this happens. I originally thought I wanted a WA7 and somehow ended up with a WA5 when it was all said and done. Good luck on the tube hunt. It took me a couple months to get settled in. At the same time it was kind of fun trying new stuff and getting that 'wow' hit when there's an upgrade.


----------



## MIKELAP

jerick70 said:


> bitten by bug said:
> 
> 
> > New gear is fun @jerick70
> ...


 
 Hey jerick70 welcome to the club you mentionned having an Elise a few post back what are your impressions of it compared to the WA22 .Thanks.


----------



## jerick70

mikelap said:


> Hey jerick70 welcome to the club you mentionned having an Elise a few post back what are your impressions of it compared to the WA22 .Thanks.




Much appreciated @MIKELAP! 

For the cost the Elise is an excellent amp. Tube rolling is a dream like it is with the WA22. The build quality is significantly better with the WA22. The WA22 drives my ZMF headphones significantly better, which is why I sold my Elise. The sound quality is outstanding with the Elise but a step up with the WA22. I've always had better sound from my audio chains with balanced setups. 

On that note, I want to understand why some amps drive headphones better than others. Is it because they have more output power or is it because they have higher current output, or a combination of the two? Or am I totally off base and have no idea what I'm talking about?


----------



## jerick70

Has anyone upgraded caps and wire in their WA22? Does it make a big difference in sound? 

The previous owner on my WA22 did the Jupiter Cu cap upgrade and replaced the AC connector with a gold plated model.


----------



## Badas

Having a play with the Mullard GZ34 metal base right now. My first time with this rectifier. 
It will be interesting after having the TAK274B in my amp for so long.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> Has anyone upgraded caps and wire in their WA22? Does it make a big difference in sound?
> 
> The previous owner on my WA22 did the Jupiter Cu cap upgrade and replaced the AC connector with a gold plated model.




I think it was Seamaster that highly modified a WA22. Poured more $$'s into it than the original cost of the amp. Went to a spealist amp maker called Dan I think. There is a thread around here somewhere with all the details. 
He stated the upgrades made improvements.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> I think it was Seamaster that highly modified a WA22. Poured more $$'s into it than the original cost of the amp. Went to a spealist amp maker called Dan I think. There is a thread around here somewhere with all the details.
> He stated the upgrades made improvements.


 
  
 I'm happy with sound quality as is.  I don't think I'll do any more internal upgrades right now just tubes.
  
 I have to say the Sylvania 7236 makes the WA22 SING!  The Brimar Rectifier is next on my list along with some different 6F8Gs.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I'm happy with sound quality as is.  I don't think I'll do any more internal upgrades right now just tubes.
> 
> I have to say the Sylvania 7236 makes the WA22 SING!  The Brimar Rectifier is next on my list along with some different 6F8Gs.




I have a set of Tung Sol 7236's that I got from Woo. Same as the Sylvania I think. I was never a fan of them. Too solid state sounding for my taste. However I can be very wrong sometimes. I have lent the set to another member for his opinion. It is his GZ34 rectifier I'm listening to right now. He didn't like it howewever my initial impression is that it is wonderful. Shows how different we all hear. :rolleyes:


----------



## jerick70

The ZMF Omni pairs very nicely with the WA22....


----------



## Badas

^

Really nice photos. 

You've got to get rid of that stock rectifier. That thing destroys the sound. Did you say that you have the Brimar 5Z4GY's coming?


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Really nice photos.
> 
> You've got to get rid of that stock rectifier. That thing destroys the sound. Did you say that you have the Brimar 5Z4GY's coming?


 
  
 Yes I have a couple of Brimars coming.  Is there another rectifier that you recommend?


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> Yes I have a couple of Brimars coming.  Is there another rectifier that you recommend?




Hard to recommend. Brimar is a favorite of mine however these are highly regarded as well:

Mullard GZ30, 32 and 34.

TAK274B is outstanding but pricey. 

Other members should have some favourites as well.


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> Hard to recommend. Brimar is a favorite of mine however these are highly regarded as well:
> 
> Mullard GZ30, 32 and 34.
> 
> ...




WE422a works for me.


----------



## leftside

Most of my favorite rectifiers have already been mentioned. I also really like the Cossor 53KU.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

So many nice rectifiers, so little time....
  
 As I was contemplating how to shuffle the tube deck today, it occurred to me that my vehicle is what is truly amazing in this entire arena.
  
 Kudos to Woo for the amp that continues to scale as new and improved sources, tubes and headphones are thrown into the mix.


----------



## 3083joe

jerick70 said:


> Yes I have a couple of Brimars coming.  Is there another rectifier that you recommend?



The ones Badas recommended plus we422 is excellent (300-400) 
Brimar 5r4 is wonderful (80-90)
Cossor 53KU (fat bottle gz37) (200-400)
GEC U52 (200-400)
Tak274B is best rectifier I've ever used! Hands down tho. 
Enjoy.


----------



## 3083joe

I need some help. 

Can some please give me info on metal gz34 with codes 
" top line +or T followed by V2, bottom line 56L"

Thanks for any help.


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> I need some help.
> 
> Can some please give me info on metal gz34 with codes
> " top line +or T followed by V2, bottom line 56L"
> ...


 
  
 +    (Philips - Sittard, Holland)
 V2  (tube type/ change code data)
 56  (year - 1956)
 L    (month - December)
  
 These types of tube codes are not always easy to decipher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but I'm very confident that what I listed above is accurate!


----------



## phase0

I've spent some more time with the V281 vs WA5 after running the V281 longer to burn in 50+ hours. I got it Tuesday. I also stopped nightly to listen to the John Robbin Health Revolution talks so basically somewhere between now and Tues I'm sure I got more the 50 hrs on it but IDK exactly how many.
  
 I've tried to A/B the amps a little bit. I feel like the WA5 has some magic and I would be a fool to part with it. Ken said the WA5 was really lacking in bass but that's not at all my experience. I think either he didn't let it burn in long enough or just had a different preference and wanted something else. IDK. I keep circling that in disbelief. I think my WA5 is kicking out as much as the V281 with as much impact on my LCD-XC.
  
 I feel like something in the V281 is maybe a bit more detailed and analytic but still very enjoyable. I feel like the mids are a bit more prominent on the WA5 in a very pleasing way. It has more of some kind of ephemeral liquid silky smoothness or something IDK how to exactly describe it. I definitely prefer it to the V281 on a general listening level. I also feel like the WA5 is very sharp with a lot of detail. I don't feel like it's lacking but seems like the V281 has more and the WA5 is smoother in some way.
  
 I'd say V281 is up on the same level of quality as the WA5, and at 1/3 the price it's much more economical to get to what I'd feel comfortable saying is the same level of quality/performance. It's like two flavors of ice cream that are both great. I could see someone prefer one over the other. Sorry if that muddies the waters. I don't know exactly how to explain in audiophile terms. If I started on the V281, I don't think I could justify $6K + tube costs to go the WA5 route. Since I started there and have it, I also recognize some quality to it that I love. I don't regret it, and I feel like I'd be a fool to sell it. I already climbed the learning curve mountain with the help of folks here and have great tubes.
  
 The best part of this setup is either amp I listen through sounds great and renders something very enjoyable. It's not about the gear/equip. It's about enjoying the music. I feel a bit decadent two have two amps here, but I'm also thinking I don't want to send the V281 back. It's too good and I should be able to utilize it as a pre-amp for my monitors.
  
 IDK if that helps anyone out there but that's my impressions after the last couple of hours switching back and forth.


----------



## Badas

^

Nice review. Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> I've spent some more time with the V281 vs WA5 after running the V281 longer to burn in 50+ hours. I got it Tuesday. I also stopped nightly to listen to the John Robbin Health Revolution talks so basically somewhere between now and Tues I'm sure I got more the 50 hrs on it but IDK exactly how many.
> 
> I've tried to A/B the amps a little bit. I feel like the WA5 has some magic and I would be a fool to part with it. Ken said the WA5 was really lacking in bass but that's not at all my experience. I think either he didn't let it burn in long enough or just had a different preference and wanted something else. IDK. I keep circling that in disbelief. I think my WA5 is kicking out as much as the V281 with as much impact on my LCD-XC.
> 
> ...


 

 Now if you upgrade your dac and your headphones you will have reached the summit or close to it.


----------



## Oskari

ru4music said:


> +    (Philips - Sittard, Holland)
> V2  (tube type/ change code data)
> 56  (year - 1956)
> 
> ...




You're almost there! The dating is correct. _5_ is the factory code (Eindhoven), though, and _tV_ is the type code.


----------



## leftside

@phase0 my sentiments echo yours whenever I've compared a high-end solid state headphone amp to a high-end tube headphone amp. Also, tubes and tube headphone amps take a lot longer to burn-in. A bit like speakers.... I have a mixture of solid state and tube gear. My personal preference today is a tube headphone amp - even though it's certainly not plug and play, and is a lot more effort. I have the WA22, even though I came close to purchasing a WA5LE, but I'm waiting to see what else might be coming out from Woo...


----------



## artemart

I just got my first tube amplifier a week ago and I have a question about my used rectifier tubes.
  
 I am not sure if they where there from the start,  but my Brimar 5z4GY rectifier tubes has white dots on top of the heating element and I wanted to make sure that it is normal or the both tubes need to be replaced? (Picture attached below)


----------



## cloudbp

dont worry about it, mine has a silver coating on top, after 100 plus hours of use


----------



## ru4music

phase0 said:


> I've spent some more time with the V281 vs WA5 after running the V281 longer to burn in 50+ hours. I got it Tuesday. I also stopped nightly to listen to the John Robbin Health Revolution talks so basically somewhere between now and Tues I'm sure I got more the 50 hrs on it but IDK exactly how many.
> 
> I've tried to A/B the amps a little bit. I feel like the WA5 has some magic and I would be a fool to part with it. Ken said the WA5 was really lacking in bass but that's not at all my experience. I think either he didn't let it burn in long enough or just had a different preference and wanted something else. IDK. I keep circling that in disbelief. I think my WA5 is kicking out as much as the V281 with as much impact on my LCD-XC.
> 
> ...


 

 What are you running for your headphone and DAC connections (single ended or balanced?)


----------



## ru4music

ru4music said:


> +    (Philips - Sittard, Holland)
> tV 2  (tube type GZ34/ change code data)
> 5    (??Phillips - Eindhoven, Holland?? or ??Toshiba - Japan??)
> 6  (year - 1956)
> ...


 
  
  


oskari said:


> You're almost there! The dating is correct. _5_ is the factory code (Eindhoven), though, and _tV_ is the type code.


 
  
 (@3083joe update)
 Oh crap, you're right, thanks for the correction!  Are you sure Factory Code 5 is Eindhoven, Holland?  Some web source data shows it to be Toshiba/ Japan (e.g. http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf).


----------



## Oskari

ru4music said:


> (@3083joe update)
> 
> Oh crap, you're right, thanks for the correction!  Are you sure Factory Code 5 is Eindhoven, Holland?  Some web source data shows it to be Toshiba/ Japan (e.g. http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf).




I'm 99% sure it's Eindhoven. These codes were sometimes reused as time passed.

You can see an early 60s snapshot of the codes at:



 https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeList.pdf

Notice the empty spot where the factory code 5 likely was earlier.


----------



## ymc226

Listening to my new WA5-LE with new tubes.  The left channel just went dead and all tubes still seem to have light.  Do I just start replacing tube sets to see if it is the driver, power or rectifier?
  
 Driver = Woo supplied 6SN7 in Westinghouse box
 Power = new EML 300B XLS
 Rectifier = new Brimar Z4GY
  
 Also, how long after I turn off amplifier before I can pull tubes and retest?


----------



## jerick70

ymc226 said:


> Listening to my new WA5-LE with new tubes.  The left channel just went dead and all tubes still seem to have light.  Do I just start replacing tube sets to see if it is the driver, power or rectifier?
> 
> Driver = Woo supplied 6SN7 in Westinghouse box
> Power = new EML 300B XLS
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on your new WA5-LE!  Welcome to the club!  
  
 With one channel going bad like that I would first start with cable connections to your source.  If you are plugged into a computer I would reboot and un-plug and replug the USB/Coax/Optical connection.  Then work your way forward to the connections on your WA5 and then go to the tubes.  I always unplug my components from the AC outlet (Not the computer) before I do any troubleshooting. I also like to let my tubes cool down so I don't burn myself.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## ru4music

oskari said:


> I'm 99% sure it's Eindhoven. These codes were sometimes reused as time passed.
> 
> You can see an early 60s snapshot of the codes at:
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I noticed that earlier, and saw other data for the Factory Code "5" to be "Toshiba Japan" which didn't seem right to me for that early of year.  It seems to me that Phillips tooling didn't start there until at least the 60's. That is one reason I thought I might be dealing with a different variation of the tube code and went down the "+" Factory Code route.  Thanks!


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> I just got my first tube amplifier a week ago and I have a question about my used rectifier tubes.
> 
> I am not sure if they where there from the start,  but my Brimar 5z4GY rectifier tubes has white dots on top of the heating element and I wanted to make sure that it is normal or the both tubes need to be replaced? (Picture attached below)


 
  
  


cloudbp said:


> dont worry about it, mine has a silver coating on top, after 100 plus hours of use


 
  
 ^
  
 What he said. Mine has gone chrome on top and tinted dark inside. I've done about 600 hours. Sounds better than ever.


----------



## phase0

ru4music said:


> What are you running for your headphone and DAC connections (single ended or balanced?)


 
  
 Balanced from DAC to V281 and Balanced headphone cable.


----------



## phase0

ymc226 said:


> Listening to my new WA5-LE with new tubes.  The left channel just went dead and all tubes still seem to have light.  Do I just start replacing tube sets to see if it is the driver, power or rectifier?
> 
> Driver = Woo supplied 6SN7 in Westinghouse box
> Power = new EML 300B XLS
> ...


 
  
 Do you have a headphone out on your DAC? Or some place you can check before you get to the amp? One night I was getting something weird with the amp and I didn't realize that I had accidentally bumped a function button on my DAC (after swapping out a set of tubes I just got). For new tubes I would be surprised if they failed, so far my experience has been new tubes are good. The problems for me have all been from the drivers and especially some of the used tubes I tried to buy had major problems.
  
 Someone else recommended getting some vinyl gloves to handle the tubes. You'll get some increase grip and help avoid getting finger oils on the glass. My metric is how quickly the tubes cool off to where I can handle it. I'll typically give it at least 2 min to cool off. I'm running new Brimar Z4GY (and with a little silver spot there too which is normal), And EML 300B (not XLS).


----------



## ymc226

Quote: 





jerick70 said:


> Congrats on your new WA5-LE!  Welcome to the club!
> 
> With one channel going bad like that I would first start with cable connections to your source.  If you are plugged into a computer I would reboot and un-plug and replug the USB/Coax/Optical connection.  Then work your way forward to the connections on your WA5 and then go to the tubes.  I always unplug my components from the AC outlet (Not the computer) before I do any troubleshooting. I also like to let my tubes cool down so I don't burn myself.  Just my 2 cents.


 
  
  


phase0 said:


> Do you have a headphone out on your DAC? Or some place you can check before you get to the amp? One night I was getting something weird with the amp and I didn't realize that I had accidentally bumped a function button on my DAC (after swapping out a set of tubes I just got). For new tubes I would be surprised if they failed, so far my experience has been new tubes are good. The problems for me have all been from the drivers and especially some of the used tubes I tried to buy had major problems.
> 
> Someone else recommended getting some vinyl gloves to handle the tubes. You'll get some increase grip and help avoid getting finger oils on the glass. My metric is how quickly the tubes cool off to where I can handle it. I'll typically give it at least 2 min to cool off. I'm running new Brimar Z4GY (and with a little silver spot there too which is normal), And EML 300B (not XLS).


 

 I checked all the connections and my DAC is out of the way so no way I even touched it.   I replaced the driver tubes with another pair and everything worked.  After a few hours, I went back and put back the Woo supplied tubes, problem reappeared and replaced with another pair with everything back to normal.  Will email Woo tomorrow to see if they can help.  Only 7 hours on their supplied drivers.


----------



## phase0

ymc226 said:


> I checked all the connections and my DAC is out of the way so no way I even touched it.   I replaced the driver tubes with another pair and everything worked.  After a few hours, I went back and put back the Woo supplied tubes, problem reappeared and replaced with another pair with everything back to normal.  Will email Woo tomorrow to see if they can help.  Only 7 hours on their supplied drivers.


 
  
 Glad you figured it out. If you only have 7 hrs on them then I think Woo should replace. That said you're probably better off looking for better driver tubes and not buying the 6SN7s from Woo. You may be able to find the upgraded RCA 6SN7 GT for much cheaper (like $30 instead of $330). Right now I'd say I prefer the cheap RCA 6C8G to the nicer 6SN7s that I've heard.


----------



## jerick70

ymc226 said:


> I checked all the connections and my DAC is out of the way so no way I even touched it.   I replaced the driver tubes with another pair and everything worked.  After a few hours, I went back and put back the Woo supplied tubes, problem reappeared and replaced with another pair with everything back to normal.  Will email Woo tomorrow to see if they can help.  Only 7 hours on their supplied drivers.[ATTACHMENT=2534]IMG_0454.jpg (1,327k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]




Good deal. I have to second phase0's recommendation get different drivers. You will be much happier with the sound.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Glad you figured it out. If you only have 7 hrs on them then I think Woo should replace. That said you're probably better off looking for better driver tubes and not buying the 6SN7s from Woo. You may be able to find the upgraded RCA 6SN7 GT for much cheaper (like $30 instead of $330). *Right now I'd say I prefer the cheap RCA 6C8G to the nicer 6SN7s that I've heard.*


 

 I agree with that statement. The worst 6F type I heard was the Sylvania 6F8G and that was better than the best 6SN7 type I heard.
 I've also got a RCA 6F8G with the same plates as the 6SN7 type and it sounds way ahead.
 TSRP 6SN7 is suppose to be superb but goes for a fortune ($600-$800 a set). I use the TSRP 6C8G and it is suppose to have the same sound for a fraction of the price for a 6SN7 type.


----------



## ymc226

Thanks all, 
  
 I have only 1 extra pair of drivers, these being RCA 6SN7's that I bought matched from George Lens when I got my EML power and rectifier tubes.  I read or quickly glanced over all the posts #2000 to present on this thread.
  
 As my amp is a WA5-LE, I understand that the 6C8Gs and 6F8Gs (except NU) are the ones to go for.  Also C3Gs more recently got good reviews but they are metal shrouded so that is a minus in terms of looks but have great clarity from several posts.  All this means that I have a message into Woo for 6C8G/6F8G to 6SN7 and C3G to 6SN7 adapters.
  
 I've in the US and since I'm new to tubes, am more willing to pay a premium for tubes that have been tested with some back up in terms of guarantee rather than taking my chances on Ebay.  I've bought from Brent Jesse and am thinking of using Andy at Vintage Tube services.  Any other dealer that people trust with a good selection of tubes?


----------



## Porteroso

For what it's worth, I've never gotten screwed on a tube deal on ebay. Most tube sellers have sold many, many tubes on ebay, and are much cheaper than other places. It is a little bit of a hassle, but I doubt it actually takes any more time than contacting someone and asking about their stock.


----------



## leftside

Perhaps a couple of you guys have been very unlucky with 6SN7's and lucky with 6C8G's/6F8G's or I've been lucky with 6SN7's and unlucky with 6C8G's/6F8G's? I'll have to try a few more, but the 6C8G's and 6F8G's I've tried have been the worst driver tubes I've tried in my amp. Noisy, humming and sensitive (microphonic).


----------



## jerick70

Where is everyone getting their 6C8G and 6F8G adapters from?  Ebay?  Is there a supplier in the USA that offers the adapters?


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Perhaps a couple of you guys have been very unlucky with 6SN7's and lucky with 6C8G's/6F8G's or I've been lucky with 6SN7's and unlucky with 6C8G's/6F8G's? I'll have to try a few more, but the 6C8G's and 6F8G's I've tried have been the worst driver tubes I've tried in my amp. Noisy, humming and sensitive (microphonic).


 

 Maybe it is the outside wire on the adapter picking up noise? That can happen.
  
 When I turn on my remote control lights the tubes go noisy. When I turn them off they go 100% quiet.


----------



## ken6217

jerick70 said:


> Where is everyone getting their 6C8G and 6F8G adapters from?  Ebay?  Is there a supplier in the USA that offers the adapters?


 
 Woo sells them.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> Where is everyone getting their 6C8G and 6F8G adapters from?  Ebay?  Is there a supplier in the USA that offers the adapters?


 

 Glenn,
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn
  
 I've got two sets (4 tubes) of NU 6F8G NOS, NIB that I'm going to sell. I paid US$100 a set. Anyone interested PM me. I will pay freight. Tested in my amp and they are dead quiet.


----------



## ken6217

porteroso said:


> For what it's worth, I've never gotten screwed on a tube deal on ebay. Most tube sellers have sold many, many tubes on ebay, and are much cheaper than other places. It is a little bit of a hassle, but I doubt it actually takes any more time than contacting someone and asking about their stock.


 

 +1
  
 I have bought a lot of drivers from Ebay fror quite a few sources and got exactly what I ordered.
  
 Most of these dealers have had hundreds or thousands of excellent ratings. This is there business. It doesn't behoove them to screw someone.


----------



## jerick70

porteroso said:


> For what it's worth, I've never gotten screwed on a tube deal on ebay. Most tube sellers have sold many, many tubes on ebay, and are much cheaper than other places. It is a little bit of a hassle, but I doubt it actually takes any more time than contacting someone and asking about their stock.


 
  
 Another satisfied Ebay valve purchaser here.  You tend to get much better pricing too.  You have to be quick though!  The best deals go FAST.....


----------



## phase0

ymc226 said:


> Thanks all,
> 
> I have only 1 extra pair of drivers, these being RCA 6SN7's that I bought matched from George Lens when I got my EML power and rectifier tubes.  I read or quickly glanced over all the posts #2000 to present on this thread.
> 
> ...


 
  
 NU 6C8G work great in my WA5. The NU 6F8G are hit and miss. I ordered some and one was noisy so I sent them back. Some of the tube dealers have website presence as well as eBay stores. VivaTubes is an example. I had some bad luck on eBay with some bad 6SN7s but was able to return them no hassle (other than the effort to repack and go through the return process). I've obtained a lot of good tubes from there. It just seems to be that most of it gets listed there.
  
 Oh yeah and I got my 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters from Woo, but a couple folks here said Glenn is the best (I've never bought anything from Glenn).


----------



## leftside

I have a set of adapters from eBay and also from a seller on here (made by Glenn). I originally thought the problem was the adapter, but I experienced the same problem with both adapters. I've heard similar problems from other people (via google), but you guys rate them so highly that I'll try and seek out a couple of other pairs of these tubes.


----------



## phase0

leftside said:


> Perhaps a couple of you guys have been very unlucky with 6SN7's and lucky with 6C8G's/6F8G's or I've been lucky with 6SN7's and unlucky with 6C8G's/6F8G's? I'll have to try a few more, but the 6C8G's and 6F8G's I've tried have been the worst driver tubes I've tried in my amp. Noisy, humming and sensitive (microphonic).


 
  
 Yea the NU 6C8G are definitely sensitive. I solved the problem by getting a stand for the WA5 and moving off of my desk. Until then the vibrations from typing were an issue. I've had some noise issues too but it seems that DeOxit solves the noise problem. Again the only seemingly incompatibility I've run into is the NU 6F8G and even there someone was able to find a couple that worked in the WA5. IIRC someone said they work great in the WA22.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Yea the NU 6C8G are definitely sensitive. I solved the problem by getting a stand for the WA5 and moving off of my desk. Until then the vibrations from typing were an issue. I've had some noise issues too but it seems that DeOxit solves the noise problem. Again the only seemingly incompatibility I've run into is the NU 6F8G and even there someone was able to find a couple that worked in the WA5. IIRC someone said they work great in the WA22.


 

 NU 6F8G work great in the WA22 and WA6 (with 6SN7 adapters). Not so great in the WA5.


----------



## leftside

Anyone here use different tubes for different types of music? I really didn't want to go down this path... But I had some mint NIB Mullard ECC31's arrive on Friday and I've been trying them out today. I really like them for music such as Nine Inch Nails, White Zombie and Ministry, but prefer the Osram B65's for music such as Portishead and Massive Attack, blues or classical.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> I agree with that statement. The worst 6F type I heard was the Sylvania 6F8G and that was better than the best 6SN7 type I heard.
> I've also got a RCA 6F8G with the same plates as the 6SN7 type and it sounds way ahead.
> TSRP 6SN7 is suppose to be superb but goes for a fortune ($600-$800 a set). I use the TSRP 6C8G and it is suppose to have the same sound for a fraction of the price for a 6SN7 type.


 

 I bought a pair of TSRP 6SN7s and they're magic.  Best driver I've heard in the WA5.  And they were $550, pretty much in line with what you're saying.


----------



## reeltime

ken6217 said:


> +1
> 
> I have bought a lot of drivers from Ebay fror quite a few sources and got exactly what I ordered.
> 
> Most of these dealers have had hundreds or thousands of excellent ratings. This is there business. It doesn't behoove them to screw someone.


 

 Two keys to purchasing quality on eBay:
  
 1) Seller has a lot of positive reviews.  I won't touch any seller under 300 transactions at 100% or 1000 transactions or more at 99% positive.
  
 2) Seller's past transactions include similar items.
  
 Those two factors have never resulted in a negative situation.  
  
 I have strayed from these rules on occasion, with mixed results.   Some good, some bad.


----------



## thecrow

Plus returns accepted is a good indicator


----------



## artemart

I am new to tube amplifiers so I am hoping this question will not sound dump.
  
 I know that WA5-LE does not need matching rectifier tubes and it needs matching power tubes.
 What about driver tubes do they need to be match?


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> I am new to tube amplifiers so I am hoping this question will not sound dump.
> 
> I know that WA5-LE does not need matching rectifier tubes and it needs matching power tubes.
> What about driver tubes do they need to be match?




Dude. All tubes need to be matching in construction. If you are talking about test results then the general rule of thumb is within about 10% matched. I've gone further than that with fine results.


----------



## ymc226

porteroso said:


> For what it's worth, I've never gotten screwed on a tube deal on ebay. Most tube sellers have sold many, many tubes on ebay, and are much cheaper than other places. It is a little bit of a hassle, but I doubt it actually takes any more time than contacting someone and asking about their stock.


 

 That's good news.  I'll start to check them out.


----------



## ymc226

badas said:


> I agree with that statement. The worst 6F type I heard was the Sylvania 6F8G and that was better than the best 6SN7 type I heard.
> I've also got a RCA 6F8G with the same plates as the 6SN7 type and it sounds way ahead.
> TSRP 6SN7 is suppose to be superb but goes for a fortune ($600-$800 a set). I use the TSRP 6C8G and it is suppose to have the same sound for a fraction of the price for a 6SN7 type.


 

 I haven't read any comments on the contemporary 6SN7 made by Sophia Electric or PSVANE TIIs.  What are the reps on those?


----------



## leftside

ymc226 said:


> I haven't read any comments on the contemporary 6SN7 made by Sophia Electric or PSVANE TIIs.  What are the reps on those?


 

 I quite like them, but a lot of decent original 6SN7's can still be found. I picked up some NOS Tong-Sol GTB Tall Boy for $35, RCA 6SN7GTB Parallel Black Plate for $75, RCA 6SN7GT Grey Glass for $40 and KEN-RAD JAN-CKR-6SN7GT VT-231 Black Glass Military for $100 a few weeks ago.


----------



## reeltime

ymc226 said:


> I haven't read any comments on the contemporary 6SN7 made by Sophia Electric or PSVANE TIIs.  What are the reps on those?


 

 The PSVane 181 Treasure 2s are.... awful.  I have a pair-- I pull them out every once in a while to see if they're still awful, and they're awful.
  
 There is a crunchiness to them that is difficult to listen to.  If you're that curious, I'll sell you mine.  I have 10 hours on them, at most.
  
 I had someone tell me once that if I stick with them, after 300 hours they begin to clean up.  Sorry, if I have to listen to 300 hours of garbage to get to something that's listenable-- you've made a bad tube.


----------



## ymc226

reeltime said:


> The PSVane 181 Treasure 2s are.... awful.  I have a pair-- I pull them out every once in a while to see if they're still awful, and they're awful.
> 
> There is a crunchiness to them that is difficult to listen to.  If you're that curious, I'll sell you mine.  I have 10 hours on them, at most.
> 
> I had someone tell me once that if I stick with them, after 300 hours they begin to clean up.  Sorry, if I have to listen to 300 hours of garbage to get to something that's listenable-- you've made a bad tube.


 

 LOL, no thanks.  I just got a pair of Mullard rectifiers NOS GZ34 fat base.  They sound significantly more muddy in the mid to highs after several hours of listening.  I wanted to return them but the dealer says to put 48+ hours on them and they will substantially improve.  Can this be true?


----------



## Badas

ymc226 said:


> LOL, no thanks.  I just got a pair of Mullard rectifiers NOS GZ34 fat base.  They sound significantly more muddy in the mid to highs after several hours of listening.  I wanted to return them but the dealer says to put 48+ hours on them and they will substantially improve.  Can this be true?


 

 I've just been listening to a Mullard GZ34 metal base over the weekend that has a lot more than 48+ hours on them.
 I agree with your muddy statement.
  
 I was gonna keep quiet as it will upset some members but I have to say the Mullard GZ34 is very highly over rated. What. Where is the treble? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just my opinion but the Brimar 5Z4GY is better.
  
 I'm getting things together for a Rectifier shootout. As it stands now here is my favorites that I have listened to (first to last).
 TAK274B, Brimar 5Z4GY, Mullard GZ32, Mullard GZ30, Fivre 5R4, Mullard GZ34.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I've just been listening to a Mullard GZ34 metal base over the weekend that has a lot more than 48+ hours on them.
> I agree with your muddy statement.
> 
> I was gonna keep quiet as it will upset some members but I have to say the Mullard GZ34 is very highly over rated. What. Where is the treble?  Just my opinion but the Brimar 5Z4GY is better.
> ...




The metal gz34 is known to have a transparent midrange which I think is true. It is definitely not technically superior to the transparency and soundstage of the we274. When I had a wa22 it had a really nice transparent holographic midrange I'm surprised to hear it as muddy. I suggest the we422a as something approaching the 274 signature.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> The metal gz34 is known to have a transparent midrange which I think is true. It is definitely not technically superior to the transparency and soundstage of the we274. When I had a wa22 it had a really nice transparent holographic midrange I'm surprised to hear it as muddy. I suggest the we422a as something approaching the 274 signature.


 

 Muddy might be a bit harsh. It certainly has the most bass. I liked the mid-range but to my ears the treble was completely rolled off. Which could make it sound muddy.
  
 I have test tracks that I listen for treble detail. This was the first rectifier that I couldn't hear the treble detail at all. Most others it is there but it is how that detail is treated.
 I had to listen to the brightest music I have to even tolerate the tube. Even then the bright music sounded dull. Nice but dull.
  
 Not really what you want from a rectifier. I would go for something transparent and dynamic then tweak to your preferred sound signature using power or drive tubes.


----------



## leftside

The biggest "problem" with the metal base gz34 is that they test "as new" even when they have been used/abused. I really like mine and put it into the top 5 rectifiers I have. I did a shoot-out of the rectifiers I own on the Woo tube rolling thread, and these were my favorites in order. No surprises here. Fairly similar to the Dubstep rectifier tube rolling thread.
 WE24A > Cossor Fat Bottle 53KU = Brimar U52 > Metal Base GZ34 > Valvo/Philips GZ34.
  
 Trying to get NOS or low hours is key. For this reason, a new buyer might be well advised to save the cash and go for the Tak.
  
 I also tried out the Brimar 5Z4GY. Nice tube and great value for the money.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> The biggest "problem" with the metal base gz34 is that they test "as new" even when they have been used/abused. I really like mine and put it into the top 5 rectifiers I have. I did a shoot-out of the rectifiers I own on the Woo tube rolling thread, and these were my favorites in order. No surprises here. Fairly similar to the Dubstep rectifier tube rolling thread.
> WE24A > Cossor Fat Bottle 53KU = Brimar U52 > Metal Base GZ34 > Valvo/Philips GZ34.
> 
> Trying to get NOS or low hours is key. For this reason, a new buyer might be well advised to save the cash and go for the Tak.
> ...


 

 Good shootout. I wish you were just down the road so I could give ya the TAK to try. It would be great to see where it would sit in the list.


----------



## ymc226

badas said:


> I've just been listening to a Mullard GZ34 metal base over the weekend that has a lot more than 48+ hours on them.
> I agree with your muddy statement.
> 
> I was gonna keep quiet as it will upset some members but I have to say the Mullard GZ34 is very highly over rated. What. Where is the treble?
> ...


 

 To be clear, my pair is not the metal base but the black plastic base.  I'm going to run it total for at least 48 hours for the next 2 weeks and then make a decision.  I have 30 days to return with a restock fee but these cost $500/pair.  These sound less optimal than the stock PSVANE and new EML 5U4G out of the box which sound fine to me.  FWIW, I'm listening to Dire Straits Brothers in Arms, guitar licks in judging detail and spacing of the treble.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> The biggest "problem" with the metal base gz34 is that they test "as new" even when they have been used/abused. I really like mine and put it into the top 5 rectifiers I have. I did a shoot-out of the rectifiers I own on the Woo tube rolling thread, and these were my favorites in order. No surprises here. Fairly similar to the Dubstep rectifier tube rolling thread.
> WE24A > Cossor Fat Bottle 53KU = Brimar U52 > Metal Base GZ34 > Valvo/Philips GZ34.
> 
> Trying to get NOS or low hours is key. For this reason, a new buyer might be well advised to save the cash and go for the Tak.
> ...


 

 For the WA22 amp, I think I agree except I think the metal gz34 edges out the u52 a little bit. 53ku has better bass response iirc than u52.


----------



## Contrails

I have listened to the Metal Base GZ34 and my impressions were that it was an overrated tube as well.  To me the tube sounded like it lacked emotion unlike the GZ32.  The Bass on this tube is very good, but the rest did sound slightly muddy in comparison to the top tiers.  The best tube I have heard is the TAK274b and then the WE422a in second. Maybe, Metal base GZ34 is not suited for the WA22 and definitely not worth what it sells for.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

contrails said:


> I have listened to the Metal Base GZ34 and my impressions were that it was an overrated tube as well.  To me the tube sounded like it lacked emotion unlike the GZ32.  The Bass on this tube is very good, but the rest did sound slightly muddy in comparison to the top tiers.  The best tube I have heard is the TAK274b and then the WE422a in second. Maybe, Metal base GZ34 is not suited for the WA22 and definitely not worth what it sells for.


 

 I think Contrails has a good point here.  A lot depends on what amp is being used. 
  
 For instance, the famed Brimar, is a good price for a NOS tube and WA22 users really like it, but for me in 6SE it is pretty much MEH.  I can make it sound good, but only with specific drivers and cans.  On the other hand, I have numerous rectifiers not dependent on a specific combo to excel.
  
 So it is very probable to me that the metal base GZ34 and or variations, in specific amps may be outstanding.  The fat base Mullard GZ34 take 6SE to a very high level.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> I think Contrails has a good point here.  A lot depends on what amp is being used.
> 
> For instance, the famed Brimar, is a good price for a NOS tube and WA22 users really like it, but for me in 6SE it is pretty much MEH.  I can make it sound good, but only with specific drivers and cans.  On the other hand, I have numerous rectifiers not dependent on a specific combo to excel.
> 
> So it is very probable to me that the metal base GZ34 and or variations, in specific amps may be outstanding.  The fat base Mullard GZ34 take 6SE to a very high level.


 

 We need to start developing a database on what works in particular amps.
  
 I agree about amp snergy. I couldn't believe that this tube was not sounding great by the reviews it has. Some reviews by members I respect. So it must be the amp not the tube.
  
 GZ34 metal base is not a fun tube in the WA22. Very flat.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> We need to start developing a database on what works in particular amps.
> 
> I agree about amp snergy. I couldn't believe that this tube was not sounding great by the reviews it has. Some reviews by members I respect. So it must be the amp not the tube.
> 
> GZ34 metal base is not a fun tube in the WA22. Very flat.


 

 Good idea! 
  
 Of course we know we can put Sovtex 5AR4 at the bottom of all classes, ha, ha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I caved and metal GZ34 will be arriving soon for consideration...


----------



## ymc226

In terms of improvement, would the order be DAC > headphones > tubes?  (keeping the amp the one constant)


----------



## Badas

ymc226 said:


> In terms of improvement, would the order be DAC > headphones > tubes?  (keeping the amp the one constant)


 
  
 Controversial but probably.
  
 DAC is often the last to upgraded tho. Often overlooked. I was guilty of that.
  
 DAC improved my whole system. SS amp, Tube amp and massively on speakers.


----------



## leftside

ymc226 said:


> In terms of improvement, would the order be DAC > headphones > tubes?  (keeping the amp the one constant)


 

 Perhaps Headphones > DAC > Tubes. All depends on the DAC and the headphones.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Controversial but probably.
> 
> DAC is often the last to upgraded tho. Often overlooked. I was guilty of that.
> 
> DAC improved my whole system. SS amp, Tube amp and massively on speakers.


 

 +1
  
 (edit) Recently upgraded DAC and it is like having a new system just like @Badas.


----------



## ymc226

Being new to the audiophile arena, I took for granted that a CD album is just like any other CD album.  I've listened to the same song from the studio album vs a compilation collection and there were obvious differences in quality that were quickly noticed.
  
 Is there a source for acquiring well recorded music from the mic onwards.  I just want to experience a quality recording and compare it to my usual classic rock albums on CD from the 70s/80s (Eagles, Stones, Bob Seger, Dire Straits) which may not have the same consistent quality.  This may cause some differences in evaluation or am I mistaken?


----------



## Badas

ymc226 said:


> Being new to the audiophile arena, I took for granted that a CD album is just like any other CD album.  I've listened to the same song from the studio album vs a compilation collection and there were obvious differences in quality that were quickly noticed.
> 
> Is there a source for acquiring well recorded music from the mic onwards.  I just want to experience a quality recording and compare it to my usual classic rock albums on CD from the 70s/80s (Eagles, Stones, Bob Seger, Dire Straits) which may not have the same consistent quality.  This may cause some differences in evaluation or am I mistaken?


 

 There has never been a recording standard. Never been approved rooms, mics or equipment. Every studio now and the past sounds different.
  
 So things will sound different depending on a lot of variants.
  
 This has become a huge debate in speaker manufacturing. Speaker manufactures will plaster around words and specifications like "Reference Speakers". Reference??? What reference? There has never been one.
 So some very knowledgeable audio engineers have been doing podcasts and advising to aim for your personal preference rather than reference.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> There has never been a recording standard. Never been approved rooms, mics or equipment. Every studio now and the past sounds different.


 
 Indeed. And the problem with going higher end equipment is that you start to notice more and more poor quality recordings.


----------



## leftside

> I just want to experience a quality recording and compare it to my usual classic rock albums on CD from the 70s/80s (Eagles, Stones, Bob Seger, Dire Straits) which may not have the same consistent quality.  This may cause some differences in evaluation or am I mistaken?


 
 If you like the Stones and Dire Straits then I can strongly recommend their SACD's. They are some of the finest recordings I have. Alternatively you might be able to find their ISO or DSD files somewhere. I use JRiver to play ISO/DSD files via USB to my DAC. I don't notice any difference to the original SACD's (which I own).


----------



## ymc226

leftside said:


> If you like the Stones and Dire Straits then I can strongly recommend their SACD's. They are some of the finest recordings I have. Alternatively you might be able to find their ISO or DSD files somewhere. I use JRiver to play ISO/DSD files via USB to my DAC. I don't notice any difference to the original SACD's (which I own).


 

 Some other noob questions: 
  

can you rip a SACD using the Apple SuperDrive using Apple lossless compression and keep the quality up?   More basic, can an Apple SuperDrive even read a SACD?
does a SACD require a special CD transport?  I know the Woo Audio CD transport only accepts Redbook CDs.
if I decide to go the ISO/DSD file route, do I need a special DAC that accepts ISO/DSD files or do I just need the JRiver software to play the files.
  
 I've read enough to know there are limits and restrictions with DSD files but don't know enough to understand all the issues involved.


----------



## leftside

ymc226 said:


> Some other noob questions:
> 
> 
> can you rip a SACD using the Apple SuperDrive using Apple lossless compression and keep the quality up?   More basic, can an Apple SuperDrive even read a SACD?
> ...


 

 1. No. You need a modded old Playstation to do the ripping.
 2. Yes..
 3. No. JRiver does the conversion. My D100 shows 192 khz on the display, but the newer D150 does accept DSD and will display 384 khz on the display.
  
 For some people it is simpler to just buy an SACD player. Oppo make a good one that is reasonably priced. I love listening to SACD's through the WA22. The WA22 is so quiet with a digital source that I feel I get the best of both worlds - digital perfection with a little tube warmth.


----------



## artemart

Sorry about the confusion.
  
 What I meant to say is it acceptable to get two rectifiers tubes with same construction but not a matching pair?
  
 Example:  If I buy two 5Z4GY rectifiers (see link below for rectifier) will I be able to tell a difference vs matched ones?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310653909306?rmvSB=true


----------



## Porteroso

If the tubes are NOS, they will almost certainly test within 10% of each other, especially if they were made around the same time. I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Matched pairs are pretty overrated. I have never seen someone say "I put in a set of x tubes, and couldn't stand them. They obviously weren't matched." I've put in tubes, same manufacturer, but different construction, and thought they sounded great. It's all in the eye (ear) of the beholder, but especially for same tube, never used, you don't need to worry about it being tested or not. If you were to test your tubes, they would test as matched. And what is matched anyways. If a seller has a pair within 2%, they'll tell you that only tubes within 2% are truly matched. I've seen 2% listed as "super matched," I've seen 5% said to be the gold standard for matched, and 10% as well. And again, to date, I've never seen someone say they could tell the difference.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Sorry about the confusion.
> 
> What I meant to say is it acceptable to get two rectifiers tubes with same construction but not a matching pair?
> 
> ...




That is Langrex's seller on eBay. It is where everyone else bought their Brimars from. Including myself. They are golden.


----------



## phase0

porteroso said:


> If the tubes are NOS, they will almost certainly test within 10% of each other, especially if they were made around the same time. I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Matched pairs are pretty overrated. I have never seen someone say "I put in a set of x tubes, and couldn't stand them. They obviously weren't matched." I've put in tubes, same manufacturer, but different construction, and thought they sounded great. It's all in the eye (ear) of the beholder, but especially for same tube, never used, you don't need to worry about it being tested or not. If you were to test your tubes, they would test as matched. And what is matched anyways. If a seller has a pair within 2%, they'll tell you that only tubes within 2% are truly matched. I've seen 2% listed as "super matched," I've seen 5% said to be the gold standard for matched, and 10% as well. And again, to date, I've never seen someone say they could tell the difference.


 
  
 That's very interesting. I've purchased some singles for lack of a source of matched pairs for some tubes and it's worked out fine. I don't really understand on a technical level what they're measuring (I've seen posts about it but it didn't commit to my memory), and why the measurements matter.


----------



## artemart

porteroso said:


> If the tubes are NOS, they will almost certainly test within 10% of each other, especially if they were made around the same time. I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Matched pairs are pretty overrated. I have never seen someone say "I put in a set of x tubes, and couldn't stand them. They obviously weren't matched." I've put in tubes, same manufacturer, but different construction, and thought they sounded great. It's all in the eye (ear) of the beholder, but especially for same tube, never used, you don't need to worry about it being tested or not. If you were to test your tubes, they would test as matched. And what is matched anyways. If a seller has a pair within 2%, they'll tell you that only tubes within 2% are truly matched. I've seen 2% listed as "super matched," I've seen 5% said to be the gold standard for matched, and 10% as well. And again, to date, I've never seen someone say they could tell the difference.


 
  
 Thank you for this helpful information, this means that I can buy a single 6F8G tube to get a set of 6F8G tubes.
  
 I was given a set but due to USPS poor handling of the package one of the tubes broke (picture below).


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> I've just been listening to a Mullard GZ34 metal base over the weekend that has a lot more than 48+ hours on them.
> I agree with your muddy statement.
> 
> I was gonna keep quiet as it will upset some members but I have to say the Mullard GZ34 is very highly over rated. What. Where is the treble?
> ...


 
  
 I love the metal base GZ-34.  My favorite rectifier in the WA5LE.  I do not own the Tak 274, but I will at some point.
  
 I rate as follows:  
 1) Mullard GZ34 (Metal Base) 
 2) EML 5U4G Mesh
 3) UE 596
 4) Mullard GZ34 (Black Base)
 5) Mullard GZ32
 6) CV378
 7) Sofia Electric 274B 
  
 I will note: These are all excellent tubes.  I see no fault in choosing any one of these over the other.
  
 I still want to audition the WE 422 and 274, too.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> That's very interesting. I've purchased some singles for lack of a source of matched pairs for some tubes and it's worked out fine. I don't really understand on a technical level what they're measuring (I've seen posts about it but it didn't commit to my memory), and why the measurements matter.




Basically they are measuring the amount of current flowing through the triodes. Triodes will handle different amounts. So they are getting tubes that are similar or close.

Kinda warning on picking up singles. Especially used. They have to be close. Jack came in the forums a while back and said that the Woo amps have auto bias circuits. However if they differ too much it will effect the quality. He suggested getting them close.



artemart said:


> Thank you for this helpful information, this means that I can buy a single 6F8G tube to get a set of 6F8G tubes.
> 
> I was given a set but due to USPS poor handling of the package one of the tubes broke (picture below).




Throw that away immediately dude. Nasty stuff in old tubes like Mercury vapour. If I crack a tube its in the bin ASAP.



reeltime said:


> I love the metal base GZ-34.  My favorite rectifier in the WA5LE.  I do not own the Tak 274, but I will at some point.
> 
> I rate as follows:
> 1) Mullard GZ34 (Metal Base)
> ...




It's now coming to light that the Mullard GZ34 metal base is a waste of space in the WA22. I was talking to 3083joe who said it was not good either.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Basically they are measuring the amount of current flowing through the triodes. Triodes will handle different amounts. So they are getting tubes that are similar or close.
> 
> Kinda warning on picking up singles. Especially used. They have to be close. Jack came in the forums a while back and said that the Woo amps have auto bias circuits. However if they differ too much it will effect the quality. He suggested getting them close.
> Throw that away immediately dude. Nasty stuff in old tubes like Mercury vapour. If I crack a tube its in the bin ASAP.
> It's now coming to light that the Mullard GZ34 metal base is a waste of space in the WA22. I was talking to 3083joe who said it was not good either.


 
  
 I liked the metal gz34 too with the wa22. I thought it was a good compliment - there is what feels like a little drop in power iirc but the wa22 lacks the dynamic power of the wa5le even through balanced xlr. I'm beginning to see what other people respond to as "dull" sounding but what I think is a holographic midrange. Go figure YMMV. But I definitely consider it in my 5 top rectifiers in the wa5le/wa22.
  
 Overall I liked the wa22 it has a laid back wide sound stage with rich midrange but is somewhat flat and hallow as there is not enough depth and punch. Still it sounds really nice for classical and jazz. The we274 will give you more separation helping out the depth issue you have x,y but not enough z of the x,y,z axis.
  
 The WA5 takes the WA22 and adds depth and power and richer midrange (maybe even too much? but I generally prefer a richer romantic sound even at sacrifice of detail as I listen primarily to classical and choral). The we 274 adds separation and imaging and is my preferred rectifier in the wa5le/wa22 but haven't tried the tak. My preference is WE274 >> WE422 > Metal gz34 = Cossar GZ37 > GEC U52


----------



## leftside

Try and get matched tubes in the WA22 - especially with the 6F8G.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Basically they are measuring the amount of current flowing through the triodes. Triodes will handle different amounts. So they are getting tubes that are similar or close.
> 
> Kinda warning on picking up singles. Especially used. They have to be close. Jack came in the forums a while back and said that the Woo amps have auto bias circuits. However if they differ too much it will effect the quality. He suggested getting them close.


 
  
 Yea obviously I would get tested matched pairs whenever possible. Given the choice that's the only way I would go.
  
 I couldn't find a matched pair of the TSRP 6F8G so I shopped some singles and eventually made a pair. There was a pair on eBay a week ago but I missed it because of some acct linking requirement I failed to meet. They went for just over $200. Desperate people and desperate times y'know  Willing to risk the singles and so far I think it's working for me. If anyone has a pair of TSRP 6F8G or 6C8G they want to sell me I'd be interested, but so far haven't been able to hook that up.


----------



## Porteroso

artemart said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > If the tubes are NOS, they will almost certainly test within 10% of each other, especially if they were made around the same time. I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Matched pairs are pretty overrated. I have never seen someone say "I put in a set of x tubes, and couldn't stand them. They obviously weren't matched." I've put in tubes, same manufacturer, but different construction, and thought they sounded great. It's all in the eye (ear) of the beholder, but especially for same tube, never used, you don't need to worry about it being tested or not. If you were to test your tubes, they would test as matched. And what is matched anyways. If a seller has a pair within 2%, they'll tell you that only tubes within 2% are truly matched. I've seen 2% listed as "super matched," I've seen 5% said to be the gold standard for matched, and 10% as well. And again, to date, I've never seen someone say they could tell the difference.
> ...


 
 Yeah, that sucks. Just to be clear, from what I've seen, if you're using tubes of identical construction, with similar usages, they will sound fine. I don't think anyone recommends using a new tube with an almost dead tube, for example. And let's be real, I bet a lot of sellers will list a tube as NOS as long as it tests very strong or above. The tube might have 1000 hours on it, but if it tests well, they'll just stick the NOS label on it and try to charge more.
  
 But yes, I had maybe 100 hours on a set of TS 6F8G, and broke one of them. I'm in the hunt for a replacement, and while it won't be as closely matched, I really doubt that it will make any difference in the sound. I hope you find a replacement too.


----------



## thecrow

ymc226 said:


> In terms of improvement, would the order be DAC > headphones > tubes?  (keeping the amp the one constant)







bitten by bug said:


> +1
> 
> (edit) Recently upgraded DAC and it is like having a new system just like @Badas.





ymc226 said:


> In terms of improvement, would the order be DAC > headphones > tubes?  (keeping the amp the one constant)







badas said:


> Controversial but probably.
> 
> DAC is often the last to upgraded tho. Often overlooked. I was guilty of that.
> 
> DAC improved my whole system. SS amp, Tube amp and massively on speakers.







bitten by bug said:


> +1
> 
> (edit) Recently upgraded DAC and it is like having a new system just like @Badas.



I too recently upgraded my dac. A major upgrade in $. 

It definitely shouldn't be overlooked. 

I had an arcam irdac which suited my Burson soloist very very well. Synergy was a major factor here. I did a bit of mixing and matching with this gear with similarly priced gear and there was no need to break these apart. 

I don't think think there would have been a big change between the irdac (about $600) and other dacs under $1000. Just slight differences and matching. 

It was like there was different level of dacs broken into defined price jumps. Eg dacs around $400/500 then around $1000 then up from there. 

But when investing in upgrading an amp then I believe one should also considering upgrading the dac with it or keep a dac upgrade in mind. 

Nothing wrong with just upgrading the amp and later coming back to upgrade the dac. It's probably more economical than partly upgrading both and then later partly upgrading them again. 

Currently I have a dac (Metrum hex) that I feel is my end gear dac and the wa2 which will be upgraded if I ever can afford the upgrade to a more premium amp (and relevant tubes if I go that way). 

I prefer having a more premium dac than amp. The dac gets all the detail and nature of the sound (for my natural sound) to my amp and then the amp AND headphones take care of the colour, richness, emphasis and all that stuff. 

In a nutshell don't overlook the dac. It's just as important, for me, if not a little bit more than the amp. 

Enough rambling..........


----------



## abvolt

I would absolutely agree the right dac makes a very big difference in sq..


----------



## ymc226

thecrow said:


> I too recently upgraded my dac. A major upgrade in $.
> 
> It definitely shouldn't be overlooked.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


abvolt said:


> I would absolutely agree the right dac makes a very big difference in sq..


 

 On that thought, I'm thinking of upgrading my DAC for the WA5-LE.  After reading on this forum, there seems to be a consensus that the Schiit Yiggy is very good.  Does anyone with a Woo amp or even more specifically with a WA5/LE have experience on the Yiggy combination?


----------



## ymc226

Just paid for adapters from Woo Audio:  6F8G to 6SN7 tube adapter
  
 Will this adapter also work for the 6C8G tube?


----------



## ken6217

ymc226 said:


> Just paid for adapters from Woo Audio:  6F8G to 6SN7 tube adapter
> 
> Will this adapter also work for the 6C8G tube?


 

 Yes


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> Throw that away immediately dude. Nasty stuff in old tubes like Mercury vapour. If I crack a tube its in the bin ASAP.


 
  
 I have moved the tube into a box in the garage and I will figure out this weekend a safe way to dispose this tube.
  
 I also did a expectation on the broken tube and it looks like the glass have broke inside of the tube and there are no cracks in outer shell. (Picture below that shows where inside the tube have broke)


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> I have moved the tube into a box in the garage and I will figure out this weekend a safe way to dispose this tube.
> 
> I also did a expectation on the broken tube and it looks like the glass have broke inside of the tube and there are no cracks in outer shell. (Picture below that shows where inside the tube have broke)


 

 That can happen as part of manufacturing. I have a few like that and it doesn't effect the tubes performance.
  
 Did the pictured tube get any type of shock? Like it was dropped? If not then it should be fine.


----------



## jhljhl

ymc226 said:


> On that thought, I'm thinking of upgrading my DAC for the WA5-LE.  After reading on this forum, there seems to be a consensus that the Schiit Yiggy is very good.  Does anyone with a Woo amp or even more specifically with a WA5/LE have experience on the Yiggy combination?


 
  
 I'm interested in this combination as well. But the vega, exogal, ayre 9b-dsd are all excellent dacs with the wa5le v1 upgraded parts and more resolving I thought than the hugo chord (but chord was nice too). If you feel the wa5le is too warm the vega is a little more airy sounding dac.  If you have a stereo and 2 headamps it isn't easy to hook them all up together to one dac but wish I could keep both dacs. The yggy has 2 pair of single ended outs though which is good.


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> That can happen as part of manufacturing. I have a few like that and it doesn't effect the tubes performance.
> 
> Did the pictured tube get any type of shock? Like it was dropped? If not then it should be fine.


 
 Only information that I got for this tube is that it was shipped though USPS in a very nice protected package.
 This tubes was a throw in when I got the amp I can ask the original owner if he had a chance to use them before giving them to me.
  
 I have also attached a much better close up image of where the glass broke off.


----------



## Porteroso

I'm actually really interested in the Schiit dacs too. Any of their multibit dacs in fact, so if anyone has any experience...


----------



## Torq

ymc226 said:


> On that thought, I'm thinking of upgrading my DAC for the WA5-LE.  After reading on this forum, there seems to be a consensus that the Schiit Yiggy is very good.  Does anyone with a Woo amp or even more specifically with a WA5/LE have experience on the Yiggy combination?


 

 I'm running the latest, fully-upgraded, version of the WA5-LE with an Yggdrasil.  It's an absolutely fabulous combination - musical, engaging, dynamic, fast, super-sweet top-end, liquid-sensual meds, rich-taught bass, and a completely holographic presentation.  I like it even better than through the Ragnarok that I also have as part of that setup (which is also fabulous, just not quite as engaging as the WA5-LE):
  
  

  
 I'm currently on a bit of a quest to see if I can find something I like better than Yggdrasil ... so far, even at several times it's price, I've not been successful.  The "big" stuff I still have to audition however.  But right now, failing finding something I like more, I'll be adding a second Yggdrasil for one of my other rigs.
  
 I should say that I am not, in anyway, dissatisfied with Yggdrasil ... but it's SO good that it has me wondering if there is something I find more enjoyable.  I'l be VERY happy if it turns out that there isn't!  I imagine my bank-balance will do a small dance of joy in that case too ...


----------



## reeltime

ymc226 said:


> On that thought, I'm thinking of upgrading my DAC for the WA5-LE.  After reading on this forum, there seems to be a consensus that the Schiit Yiggy is very good.  Does anyone with a Woo amp or even more specifically with a WA5/LE have experience on the Yiggy combination?


 

 The Yggi is a quality DAC.  No question.  
  
 But the Yggi is no match for the Chord DACs, in my opinion.  I would buy a Hugo over a Yggi.  I would buy a Mojo over a Yggi.  I did a lot of DAC listening at CanJam.
  
 Schiit doesn't make a DAC that decodes native DSD.  That's a deal-breaker for me.  I don't think anything touches the sound quality of the Chord DACs right now.  
  
 Plus the Hugo and Mojo are portable and will drive almost anything on their own except the HE-6 and Abyss, so you have a nice portable rig as well.  Though certainly adding a Woo on the backend improves listening dramatically.
  
 I liked the Hugo so much I picked up a used Hugo TT for my desktop to feed the WA5LE.  Stunning DAC.  If I didn't have the Woo, I'd be just fine direct out of the TT with the HE-1000.


----------



## Torq

reeltime said:


> The Yggi is a quality DAC.  No question.
> 
> But the Yggi is no match for the Chord DACs, in my opinion.  I would buy a Hugo over a Yggi.  I would buy a Mojo over a Yggi.  I did a lot of DAC listening at CanJam.
> 
> ...


 

 Obviously tastes differ ... so I'm not, by any means, suggesting anything here but different personal preferences.
  
 I love my Mojo, and prefer it over the Hugo (not saying it's "better", just that I like it's signature more).
  
 For me, I didn't find either the Mojo or the Hugo to be in quite the same league as Yggdrasil.  If my dealer gets their finger out then I'll be auditioning it next to the Hugo TT and the DAVE, which will be an interesting match up and one I'm anxious to hear ... since as I posted above I'm looking to see if I can find something I personally like more than Yggdrasil.
  
 What really did surprise me was just how much of a giant-killer I'm finding the Mojo to be.  I'd love it if Chord came out with a "Mojo TT" in the same vein as the Hugo TT ... just to make it a bit more convenient to use with a static rig.
  
 All that said, I don't use DSD currently (that'll change if and when I hear a demo that shows it as convincingly "better" than PCM instead of  just being "different") which makes the Schiit DAC a viable option for me.
  
 Excited to hear the Hugo TT and DAVE for sure ...


----------



## reeltime

torq said:


> All that said, I don't use DSD currently (that'll change if and when I hear a demo that shows it as convincingly "better" than PCM instead of  just being "different") which makes the Schiit DAC a viable option for me.
> 
> Excited to hear the Hugo TT and DAVE for sure ...


 
  
 Try a few DSD files with Audirvana software on your computer.  I think you'll be surprised.
  
 If you like early Elton John, Honky Chateau and Tumbleweed Connection are as good as it gets, or Miles Kind of Blue or Jazz at the Pawnshop.  
  
 DSD is on a different plane than other hi-res formats.


----------



## Torq

reeltime said:


> Try a few DSD files with Audirvana software on your computer.
> 
> If you like early Elton John, Honky Chateau and Tumbleweed Connection are as good as it gets, or Miles Kind of Blue or Jazz at the Pawnshop.
> 
> DSD is on a different plane than other hi-res formats.


 

 I've tried exactly that (at least with "Kind of Blue" and "Jazz at the Pawnshop"), oddly enough!  I've also tried DSD comparisons with other DSD capable DACs using both converted and native DSD paths, and while it's definitely different it hasn't come across as definitively "better" for me yet.
  
 That said, I don't, in general, find much of a difference with hi-res PCM vs. regular Red Book in many cases either ... and when I do it almost always turns out to be down to slightly different masters.


----------



## reeltime

torq said:


> I've tried exactly that (at least with "Kind of Blue" and "Jazz at the Pawnshop"), oddly enough!  I've also tried DSD comparisons with other DSD capable DACs using both converted and native DSD paths, and while it's definitely different it hasn't come across as definitively "better" for me yet.
> 
> That said, I don't, in general, find much of a difference with hi-res PCM vs. regular Red Book in many cases either ... and when I do it almost always turns out to be down to slightly different masters.


 

 It's tricky.  Some DSD are simply upres'd files.  You won't hear much difference.  
  
 The Elton John DSDs are remasters direct to DSD.  I've been building a collection.  The Blue Note Jazz files are all remastered for DSD.  Cannonball Adderley and Art Blakey are two of my favorites.  Hugh Masekela's Hope is also a remaster, I believe.
  
 There is a version of Jazz at the Pawnshop on DSD that's Quad Rate.  It's jaw dropping.
  
 Added:  Make sure your Chord color is grey, and your software is in hog mode.


----------



## Torq

reeltime said:


> It's tricky.  Some DSD are simply upres'd files.  You won't hear much difference.
> 
> The Elton John DSDs are remasters direct to DSD.  I've been building a collection.  The Blue Note Jazz files are all remastered for DSD.  Cannonball Adderley and Art Blakey are two of my favorites.  Hugh Masekela's Hope is also a remaster, I believe.
> 
> There is a version of Jazz at the Pawnshop on DSD that's Quad Rate.  It's jaw dropping.


 

 Okay then ... I'll see about grabbing those versions and include them as part of my big DAC evaluation.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## thecrow

Torq do you do requests (if you need an excuse)? 

Can you try, or have you tried, any of the Metrum dacs?

Particularly the hex or new menuet. I'd love to know how the yggy compares to those in its offering


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> The Yggi is a quality DAC.  No question.
> 
> But the Yggi is no match for the Chord DACs, in my opinion.  I would buy a Hugo over a Yggi.  I would buy a Mojo over a Yggi.  I did a lot of DAC listening at CanJam.
> 
> ...


 


 Have you seen this chart from Changster?


----------



## YugiRider2

How is the Vega in comparison to the Yggy and the Gumby?


----------



## ken6217

torq said:


> I'm running the latest, fully-upgraded, version of the WA5-LE with an Yggdrasil.  It's an absolutely fabulous combination - musical, engaging, dynamic, fast, super-sweet top-end, liquid-sensual meds, rich-taught bass, and a completely holographic presentation.  I like it even better than through the Ragnarok that I also have as part of that setup (which is also fabulous, just not quite as engaging as the WA5-LE):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Try Meitner MA-1. That is end game. I auditioned quite a few DAC's in my home over the last few months and settled on it.


----------



## ken6217

jhljhl said:


> Have you seen this chart from Changster?


 
 The bigger bang for the buck would actually be to skip the DAC upgrade and get the HE-1000's instead.


----------



## Torq

thecrow said:


> @Torq do you do requests (if you need an excuse)?
> 
> Can you try, or have you tried, any of the Metrum dacs?
> 
> Particularly the hex or new menuet. I'd love to know how the yggy compares to those in its offering


 
  
 Do I do requests?  Not as such.
  
 I do have the Metrum Pavane on my list of things to audition.  If it winds up being something I prefer to Yggdrasil then I _might_ explore the lower tiers of their range just to see if I can tell a difference there (and if not, be able to service my desire at lower cost).  But getting demos of some of this stuff in the first place is proving to be much more hassle and work than I expected ... so I may just have to stick to one model for some of the manufacturers.


----------



## Torq

yugirider2 said:


> How is the Vega in comparison to the Yggy and the Gumby?


 

 I re-auditioned the Auralic Vega a few weeks ago ... I don't have a lot to say about it, since it still didn't fit the bill for me, but my comment on it is here.  Can't make any real comments on it vs. the Gungnir MB though.


----------



## Torq

ken6217 said:


> Try Meitner MA-1. That is end game. I auditioned quite a few DAC's in my home over the last few months and settled on it.


 

 It's on the list, along wth the EMM Labs DAC2X.


----------



## jhljhl

A boutique fuse can shape the sound as much as a dac as well.


----------



## thecrow

torq said:


> Do I do requests?  Not as such.
> 
> I do have the Metrum Pavane on my list of things to audition.  If it winds up being something I prefer to Yggdrasil then I _might_ explore the lower tiers of their range just to see if I can tell a difference there (and if not, be able to service my desire at lower cost).  But getting demos of some of this stuff in the first place is proving to be much more hassle and work than I expected ... so I may just have to stick to one model for some of the manufacturers.


 

 Apart from me being worried that any feedback you may give on the pavane will entice me to demo it and go further down that rabbit hole ($$$$) i'd be curious to get your view on it compared tto the yggy.
  
 but please note there is no rush at all - i was just curious of the top end schiit v the metrum dacs when used with more an amp like the wa5
  
 ta
 peter t


----------



## ymc226

ken6217 said:


> Try Meitner MA-1. That is end game. I auditioned quite a few DAC's in my home over the last few months and settled on it.




Ken,

Have you compared the Yiggy with the Meitner directly?


----------



## Torq

thecrow said:


> Apart from me being worried that any feedback you may give on the pavane will entice me to demo it and go further down that rabbit hole ($$$$) i'd be curious to get your view on it compared tto the yggy.
> 
> but please note there is no rush at all - i was just curious of the top end schiit v the metrum dacs when used with more an amp like the wa5
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll definitely be posting my thoughts (which may be _very_ brief in some cases - not planning on writing up full-blown impressions on anything but the DACs that really impress) on the various DACs I'm auditioning in the thread I started specifically for that purpose, "Life after Yggdrasil?"  Though my plan is not to do so until I've made a decision and bought something (even if it winds up being another Yggdrasil).
  
 Some of the DACs I want to hear I am having to do as part of a trip to Europe in a few weeks, so they'll be auditioned, as much as possible, back to back (or side by side I guess) - but not using the gear I have at  home.  Less than ideal, but the best that can be done.
  
 If it turns out that I can easily hear all three Metrum DACs I'll certainly take the opportunity to do so, I'm just a bit skeptical that that will be possible.


----------



## ken6217

ymc226 said:


> Ken,
> 
> Have you compared the Yiggy with the Meitner directly?


 

 I never listened to the Yiggy. I didn't care too. I owned and still had the PS Audio DirectStream. Between December and March I auditioned in my system: Aurilac Vega, BMC UltraDAC, Exogal Comet Plus, Resonessence Invicta Mirus, and the Meitner MA-1. I sold the Directstream and kept the Meitner. I still could have been happy with the Directstream.
  
 Note though that the Meitner is about 3X the price of the Yiggy and so money is a consideration in addition to the sound.
  
 The bottom line is this. It is best to listen to equipment yourself whenever possible. Everyone's tastes are different regardless if all of the equipment are excellent. It is tough to just go by opinion and reviews even though most times that's all we have to go by.
  
 For instance, I may like model X, and say it had a lot of detail, forward, and big soundstage. Someone else may like a warmer sound and listen to X and say this is way to bright for me and it is grating, and so on.


----------



## phase0

jhljhl said:


> Have you seen this chart from Changster?


 
  
 Where did that come from? I find it funny and sad. My big amazing huge improvement DAC (Mytek) is basically **** listed here. I suppose it's perspective and I don't have a lot of experience with these other DACs. It sounds like I should try to find something else and at least compare. When I was shopping I ignored audiophile and went to gearslutz and pro-audio. I was considering Benchmark DAC-1 Lavry Blue or Black, Apogee, or I forget the name of the other one. Anyways, one interesting data point I read on gearslutz was a claim from someone that they knew for an absolute fact that at least one company out there would take their studio hardware, put it in a prettier box and sell it to audiophiles for $1000s more. That was one of the reasons I wanted to avoid audiophile DACs. I was thinking I could get better quality for cheaper going the pro-audio/studio equip route. Regardless of whatever that compare chart says the Mytek was actually a night and day improvement for me so I don't have any regret over it...


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> Have you seen this chart from Changster?


 
  
 I can only talk about products I've actually heard and give my opinion.  
  
 I always say: Buy what makes you happy.  
  
 After listening-- I am convinced Chord is making some of the best DACs available, and I wouldn't rank the DAC-1 as high as he has it on his list.  I purchased the Wyred4Sound DAC 2 after doing a shootout with the DAC-1. (The Wyred was replaced by the HugoTT)
  
 I am extremely unimpressed with Apogee's DACs.  I found this surprising, considering Apogee makes a lot of products musicians use to record!  
  
 The Yggi is a quality DAC, no question.  I rank the Chord DACs higher after listening.  I auditioned the Yggi with an LCD-3, fwiw.  
  
 Again, DSD is a deal breaker.  Any DAC I purchase must play back the highest quality audio files available. 
  
 So I respectfully disagree with this chart.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Where did that come from? I find it funny and sad. My big amazing huge improvement DAC (Mytek) is basically **** listed here. I suppose it's perspective and I don't have a lot of experience with these other DACs. It sounds like I should try to find something else and at least compare. When I was shopping I ignored audiophile and went to gearslutz and pro-audio. I was considering Benchmark DAC-1 Lavry Blue or Black, Apogee, or I forget the name of the other one. Anyways, one interesting data point I read on gearslutz was a claim from someone that they knew for an absolute fact that at least one company out there would take their studio hardware, put it in a prettier box and sell it to audiophiles for $1000s more. That was one of the reasons I wanted to avoid audiophile DACs. I was thinking I could get better quality for cheaper going the pro-audio/studio equip route. Regardless of whatever that compare chart says the Mytek was actually a night and day improvement for me so I don't have any regret over it...


 
  
 It's from another headfi website. I couldn't hear that much difference between the chord hugo and mytek with the wa5le for what it's worth.


reeltime said:


> I can only talk about products I've actually heard and give my opinion.
> 
> I always say: Buy what makes you happy.
> 
> ...


 
  
 From my experience, I can sort kind of see how he came up with this chart but don't completely agree with either. I can see why he put the original gungnir at dead center though. I disagree about the mytek as being full of digital glare but put it slightly above the gungnir and put the chord hugo higher as well. I can see why he put the vega around that place. I have not heard the yggy but would place the ayre qb-9 next to it and the exogal toward the right side of it.
  
 I attached the chart to hear about everyone else's experience but of course everyone's system is also different so ymmv.


----------



## ken6217

Not only is everybody's system different, just change the driver tubes in the same system and its a whole different ballgame.


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> I attached the chart to hear about everyone else's experience but of course everyone's system is also different so ymmv.


 
  
 It's all opinion.  That's what makes this so fun!


----------



## jhljhl

reeltime said:


> It's all opinion.  That's what makes this so fun!


 


ken6217 said:


> Not only is everybody's system different, just change the driver tubes in the same system and its a whole different ballgame.


 
  
 I agree. But the chart can be helpful because we can talk about where we put dacs on the chart- then we get a sense of each other's general perception and from different amps. For example, after trying different rectifiers I can see where dubstep girl was coming from and agreed with her more than disagreed but got a sense of her perception of sound or at least how she describes things.


----------



## leftside

Take this conversation to a DAC thread


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> Take this conversation to a DAC thread


 
  
 Trying to find the best dac for the Woo amps though. For the WA5 which is midrange rich - what's a good compliment? I like the ayre qb-9 dsd it is where the yggy sits halfway between analytical and warm.  For the WA22 which is tall and wide but not a deep sound stage? With the wa22 you should go balanced (unless you have the phase-splitter). Because it doesn't have as much power I'd go all the way to warm because a thinner sound may show its weak power but then again a more analytical airy dac like the vega may give the wa22 more separation/resolving giving more depth to the sound stage. Well that's that lol.


----------



## Khragon

I advice against schiit gungnir for wa5, I had gungnir with wa5 and do not recommend the pairing. Since wa5 is not balanced, the SE output on the gungnir is very bad, very noisy. Not sure if yggy will be the same.

I'm enjoying the LH Labs Vi DAC now and can see it being a good pairing to thw warm wa5, the Vi DAC is very clear, with good sound staging. Selectable filters allow some fine tuning of the smoothness too.


----------



## Torq

khragon said:


> I advice against schiit gungnir for wa5, I had gungnir with wa5 and do not recommend the pairing. Since wa5 is not balanced, the SE output on the gungnir is very bad, very noisy. Not sure if yggy will be the same.
> 
> I'm enjoying the LH Labs Vi DAC now and can see it being a good pairing to thw warm wa5, the Vi DAC is very clear, with good sound staging. Selectable filters allow some fine tuning of the smoothness too.


 
  
 Yggdrasil, singled-ended, into the WA5-LE sounds pretty much indistinguishable from the balanced connection ... at least in my system.
  
 Interconnects are all AudioQuest Colorado.


----------



## Porteroso

I would imagine that most tube amps give enough coloring that you don't want something distinctly colored from the dac end. To that purpose, it's insane how complex the technology is that goes into making the high end dacs. Comparing any good dacs, without the same system to listen to them on, right beside each other, would be very difficult. So many things affect our perception of the world, most of them without our knowledge. It's not worth trying to listen to things truly analytically, because we are incapable of being truly objective. There is always a certain level of analytical that we all want to get past, but after that, it comes down to what makes us happy. 
  
 For me, I think you have to stop at some monetary level, because you're just trying to recreate something that already happened. As fun as that can be, going out and being part of the real thing is when music really lives.
  
 On a Woo note, I'm really enjoying the Tung Sols again, in 6F8G. I think they are just more natural than the NU. But I often wish I had the NU in, they really are fun.


----------



## Badas

I don't know if Woo members know but it has been 35 years since Bob Marley died. Out of respect I played a number of his albums on the WA22 last night. Never heard him sound so great. I can't believe I hadn't tried his music on tubes before. Not something I would think would work. However it does. Reggae sounded fantastic. Very holographic and mellow. I enjoyed a lot and now would add to the tube playlist.
  
 I also received the new carbon headband for the LCD-X last night. It's very light and comfy. Just wanted to say the LCD-X and WA22 is a really nice sounding combo also.


----------



## 3083joe

jhljhl said:


> Trying to find the best dac for the Woo amps though. For the WA5 which is midrange rich - what's a good compliment? I like the ayre qb-9 dsd it is where the yggy sits halfway between analytical and warm.  For the WA22 which is tall and wide but not a deep sound stage? With the wa22 you should go balanced (unless you have the phase-splitter). Because it doesn't have as much power I'd go all the way to warm because a thinner sound may show its weak power but then again a more analytical airy dac like the vega may give the wa22 more separation/resolving giving more depth to the sound stage. Well that's that lol.



I recommend vega or Ayre


----------



## Badas

3083joe said:


> I recommend vega or Ayre


 

 I haven't listen to a lot of high end DAC's. We are limited in options here. No Schiit audio for example.
  
 I have heard the new Hegel HD30 and that is a stunner.
  
 I own the Vega and I can't fault it (no desire to change). It was a large leap in quality coming from the $1K DAC market. I use to have the Arcam irDAC.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> I don't know if Woo members know but it has been 35 years since Bob Marley died. Out of respect I played a number of his albums on the WA22 last night. Never heard him sound so great. I can't believe I hadn't tried his music on tubes before. Not something I would think would work. However it does. Reggae sounded fantastic. Very holographic and mellow. I enjoyed a lot and now would add to the tube playlist.
> 
> I also received the new carbon headband for the LCD-X last night. It's very light and comfy. Just wanted to say the LCD-X and WA22 is a really nice sounding combo also.


 
  
 Well I don't have any Bob Marley. I do have some Reggae Dub sounds I can go throw on tho. Is that headband worth it? Are you discovering a new level of comfort?
  
 On the DACs it sounds like Yggd should get some serious consideration even w/out DSD support. I was hoping to check out some PS Audio at some point. Then again they have audiophile pricing and there's no headphone out on it. It's not how I'd normally listen but I still want one.
  
 IIRC at CanJam the WA234 had a Mytek Manhatten for the DAC in the JPS room w/ the Abyss. I thought it sounded good there yet I didn't recognize any of the small # of demo songs they provided.


----------



## longbowbbs

phase0 said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if Woo members know but it has been 35 years since Bob Marley died. Out of respect I played a number of his albums on the WA22 last night. Never heard him sound so great. I can't believe I hadn't tried his music on tubes before. Not something I would think would work. However it does. Reggae sounded fantastic. Very holographic and mellow. I enjoyed a lot and now would add to the tube playlist.
> ...


 
 Here you go....


----------



## Badas

Quote:


phase0 said:


> Well I don't have any Bob Marley. I do have some Reggae Dub sounds I can go throw on tho. Is that headband worth it? Are you discovering a new level of comfort?


 
 The LCD-X is now my go to HP. LCD-3 is kinda retired and just a display piece now. So any bit of improvement to my main HP is worth it to me.
 I didn't really have much comfort issues. I'm built like a tank (not fat (in my opinion)) and at 46 have more hair than most. Really didn't get issues until about the 5 hours worth of listening mark. New headband is really light. Like a feather. Leather is more spread out so seems more comfy as well.
 I've always noticed that the LCD-X was a lot heavier than the LCD-3. With the new headband they feel similar in weight now.


----------



## jhljhl

The wa5le does not handle very busy classical/instrumental music without a loss of control/detail even with an airy detailed dac like the vega; sort of doesn't resolve fast enough with separation. It is very forgiving because of it's euphonic midrange and has good power for vocal/small chamber/rock etc. It is one reason to go to the Glenn 300b/c3g - can see greater transparency/resolving power. I'm using eml 300bxls which does not have a traditional 300b midrange so I thought it would be able have more resolution but the 300b taks might solve this issue.


----------



## daverich4

ken6217 said:


> The bigger bang for the buck would actually be to skip the DAC upgrade and get the HE-1000's instead.




+1


----------



## ken6217

jhljhl said:


> The wa5le does not handle very busy classical/instrumental music without a loss of control/detail even with an airy detailed dac like the vega; sort of doesn't resolve fast enough with separation. It is very forgiving because of it's euphonic midrange and has good power for vocal/small chamber/rock etc. It is one reason to go to the Glenn 300b/c3g - can see greater transparency/resolving power. I'm using eml 300bxls which does not have a traditional 300b midrange so I thought it would be able have more resolution but the 300b taks might solve this issue.


 

 You can use c3g with adapters as well.


----------



## jhljhl

ken6217 said:


> You can use c3g with adapters as well.


 

 I have but there is a slight drop in gain - it's good but maybe with taks it's a better combination.


----------



## leftside

Is there a list of driver tubes that will work in the WA22 amp with the correct adapter? For example, here are some obvious ones:
  
 ECC31/6N7 (6N7 to 6SN7 adapter is needed)
 6CG7 (9-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed)
 6F8G (8-pin to 8-pin adapter with Grid wire is needed)
 6SC7( 8-pin to 8-pin loctal adapter is needed)
 7N7 (8-pin to 8-pin loctal adapter is needed)
  
 The ECC35 tube is a 6SL7, but it appears to work fine with no adapter. 
 I have a pair of Mullard 6SL7 and they work fine with no adapter.
 I have a pair of Mullard ECC34 and the work fine with no adapter.
  
 Any others?


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> Is there a list of driver tubes that will work in the WA22 amp with the correct adapter? For example, here are some obvious ones:
> 
> ECC31/6N7 (6N7 to 6SN7 adapter is needed)
> 6CG7 (9-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed)
> ...



Very had to answer being there's so many. 
Ecc31 - need adapter
Ecc32 - no adapter
Ecc33 - no adapter
6us7
6n7- need adapter -very good and great price. 
6c8g - need adapter - well worth getting the adapter
6cs7 need adapter 
El3n (need adapter) can also use as power tubes
I'm sure there's lots more.....


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> I'm sure there's lots more.....


 
 I hear you - I'm sure there are more as well...


----------



## jhljhl

There is actually a way to get a perfect rendering of digital music a solution that is so simple and cheap it would do away with all need for these expensive mousetrap DACs. But then people would be out of business coming up with solutions and less employment and where else would people put their disposable income. Anyway, but to get back another amp for transparency and resolution I think is the Eddie current studio which directly competes with the WA5.


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> I hear you - I'm sure there are more as well...


 

 But ECC35 Are the very best sounding driver for the WA22 no comparison !!!!!! 
 Well in my opinion and experience!


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> But ECC35 Are the very best sounding driver for the WA22 no comparison !!!!!!
> Well in my opinion and experience!


 

 I can't really argue with that too much, even though there are other driver tubes that I also enjoy a lot with the WA22. This is a "high gain" tube and sometimes we can confuse "louder" with "better", but I don't think that is the case with this outstanding tube. Here are some technical details:
 http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0205.htm
 http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aau0003.htm


----------



## phase0

leftside said:


> Is there a list of driver tubes that will work in the WA22 amp with the correct adapter? For example, here are some obvious ones:
> 
> ECC31/6N7 (6N7 to 6SN7 adapter is needed)
> 6CG7 (9-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed)
> ...


 
  
 Here's the official list from Woo:
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


----------



## 3083joe

phase0 said:


> Here's the official list from Woo:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html



List from woo is great but not really complete


----------



## phase0

3083joe said:


> List from woo is great but not really complete


 
  
 Yup but it is safe, and there's a lot of options to play with in that set.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> *Yup but it is safe*, and there's a lot of options to play with in that set.


 
 I think this is why the list isn't complete. The tube options on the list are recommended for use with their amps safely. And yes, there are still quite a few nice option to play around with.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> I can't really argue with that too much, even though there are other driver tubes that I also enjoy a lot with the WA22. This is a "high gain" tube and sometimes we can confuse "louder" with "better", but I don't think that is the case with this outstanding tube. Here are some technical details:
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0205.htm
> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aau0003.htm


 
  
 Gibosi wrote:
 Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
  
 ECC88/6DJ8 and premium versions: E88CC/6922 and E188CC/7308. (These require the same pin adapter as 6CG7 and ECC804).
  
 E80CC/6085 and 13D3 (These require a 12AU7 pin-adapter)
  
 And each of the following require different pin-adapters
  
 E182CC/7119 and 5687
 ECC40
 6463
 2C51


----------



## phase0

torq said:


> I'm running the latest, fully-upgraded, version of the WA5-LE with an Yggdrasil.  It's an absolutely fabulous combination - musical, engaging, dynamic, fast, super-sweet top-end, liquid-sensual meds, rich-taught bass, and a completely holographic presentation.  I like it even better than through the Ragnarok that I also have as part of that setup (which is also fabulous, just not quite as engaging as the WA5-LE):
> 
> I'm currently on a bit of a quest to see if I can find something I like better than Yggdrasil ... so far, even at several times it's price, I've not been successful.  The "big" stuff I still have to audition however.  But right now, failing finding something I like more, I'll be adding a second Yggdrasil for one of my other rigs.
> 
> I should say that I am not, in anyway, dissatisfied with Yggdrasil ... but it's SO good that it has me wondering if there is something I find more enjoyable.  I'l be VERY happy if it turns out that there isn't!  I imagine my bank-balance will do a small dance of joy in that case too ...


 
  
 I really enjoyed reading your thread. I'm annoyed a little bit at recent events as I was super happy with my Mytek DAC (ah ignorance is bliss) and now it seems like I really should get a Yggdrasil and sell the Mytek. I had no intention of going DAC shopping just like I had no intention of getting a SS amp (V281)... Argh. I can't follow up to the higher end DACs if you end up there but from everything I read it sounds like it's hard to beat the Yggdrasil. I'm following the other thread to see how that develops. Yggdrasil pairs great with the WA5 then that may be game over for a while (at least hopefully the next few years or until I'm deaf)... Just reading threads here is dangerous.


----------



## leftside

jhljhl said:


> Gibosi wrote:
> Actually, there are a number of medium-mu triodes you can roll in addition to the 6CG7 and ECC804.
> 
> 
> ...



Wow I knew there was others, but I didn't realize there were that many. There are some good tunes on that list - that I might just have to try. Why did I ask lol.


----------



## artemart

Are there additional tubes that wa5-le can use that are not on woo audio tube compatibility chart?


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I really enjoyed reading your thread. I'm annoyed a little bit at recent events as I was super happy with my Mytek DAC (ah ignorance is bliss) and now it seems like I really should get a Yggdrasil and sell the Mytek. I had no intention of going DAC shopping just like I had no intention of getting a SS amp (V281)... Argh. I can't follow up to the higher end DACs if you end up there but from everything I read it sounds like it's hard to beat the Yggdrasil. I'm following the other thread to see how that develops. Yggdrasil pairs great with the WA5 then that may be game over for a while (at least hopefully the next few years or until I'm deaf)... Just reading threads here is dangerous.




The whole headphone game is dangerous. 
18 months ago I did a big spend on home Theater gear. Didn't replace everything. Just some amps, subs and projector. That came to $55K. :eek:
Then as a after though I thought I would like a set of headphones. I thought $2K should do it.  What a joke. $11K later I'm finially getting there. I wasn't expecting that. 
Headphones kill your wallet. I wouldn't be surprised If this hobbie hasn't caused some bankruptcy in the past. 

On the plus side. I use them a lot. Now 50/50 with home Theater movie watching.


----------



## jerick70

How do the NEW reissue Mullard GZ34s compare to the NOS GZ34s?  Does anyone have experience with these tubes and the WA22?


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> The whole headphone game is dangerous.
> 18 months ago I did a big spend on home Theater gear. Didn't replace everything. Just some amps, subs and projector. That came to $55K.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
@Badas I'm with you on the dangerous part of audio.  This hobby can be a killer on the wallet!  But the rewards are bountiful!  
  
 My advice to anyone looking into pursuing this hobby, if you aren't wanting to spend much money, get out NOW!


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> How do the NEW reissue Mullard GZ34s compare to the NOS GZ34s?  Does anyone have experience with these tubes and the WA22?




Do you have a link to them?

I've never heard of them. The Mullard brand is owned by a Russian tube company now. They own Tung-Sol as well. Their reputation for nice sounding tubes are bad.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> Do you have a link to them?
> 
> I've never heard of them. The Mullard brand is owned by a Russian tube company now. They own Tung-Sol as well. Their reputation for nice sounding tubes are bad.


 
  
 Yes they are the Russian reissue tubes.  Here's a link:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GZ34-5AR4-Rectifier-Tube-for-tube-amplifiers-/252320382148
  
 I purchased some of the reissue EL34s for my Rouge Cronus Magnum and they were not to bad.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> Yes they are the Russian reissue tubes.  Here's a link:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-GZ34-5AR4-Rectifier-Tube-for-tube-amplifiers-/252320382148
> 
> I purchased some of the reissue EL34s for my Rouge Cronus Magnum and they were not to bad.




Hard to say what they would be like. We need someone that owns both the reissue and the NOS to compare.
They seem to have similar plates to the original. At least that is a good start. Usually their reissues are miles different in construction to the originals.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> The whole headphone game is dangerous.
> 18 months ago I did a big spend on home Theater gear. Didn't replace everything. Just some amps, subs and projector. That came to $55K.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You've got it bad. For the last 2-3 years I've been selling an extensive rare vinyl record collection (these are records you don't play - a bit like some of the mint NOS tubes). I forced myself to invest 50% of the proceeds, but the other 50% has gone to home stereo. First was the living room with the home theater combined with a nice 2-channel setup. Next up was my little man cave with turntable. Just lately it's been the headphone setup in the same man cave.
  
 Eventually you have to say "enough is enough". Don't get into debt to pay for this stuff. 90% of my gear is used. A couple of my Mac amps are from the early 80's, and they seem to hold their price well. Even gone up in price since I bought them. Am I done? Probably not  But, there won't be any entirely new purchases. If something else is bought, that means something has to also be sold.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> The whole headphone game is dangerous.
> 18 months ago I did a big spend on home Theater gear. Didn't replace everything. Just some amps, subs and projector. That came to $55K.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I do alright with the job and I still jaw drop at how much some of you guys have blown on this. I suppose I'm on the way in increments. I'm reading the ebook Schiit Happens on the story of how they came to be. I just have to have something from them. Their Yggd is back ordered so I'll have to wait a few weeks. Wallet appreciates the break to catch up. I'm in around $7K on my home theater which at the time was big I'm going all out crazy money to me at the time. I would go for bigger speakers but I'm only an apt dweller and my GoldenEar Triton 3s can still manage to cause the floor and walls to shake so it's good enough for now. That's also why I'm interested in going higher end in headphones since I have to try to be considerate to neighbors. It's not to much to ask for a little slice of heaven on earth is it?


----------



## ken6217

badas said:


> The whole headphone game is dangerous.
> 18 months ago I did a big spend on home Theater gear. Didn't replace everything. Just some amps, subs and projector. That came to *$55K*.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I wish that's all I spent. Thats what I sent on my projector years ago with anamorphic lens. Now I try to keep the spending down to where I only buy three amps and keep the one that sounds best.


----------



## jerick70

ken6217 said:


> I wish that's all I spent. Thats what I sent on my projector years ago with anamorphic lens. Now I try to keep the spending down to where I only buy three amps and keep the one that sounds best. :eek:




That's where I'm at. I've had 6 amps at the same time recently though. The part that's hard is when all the amps are really good and is hard to choose.


----------



## jhljhl

jerick70 said:


> That's where I'm at. I've had 6 amps at the same time recently though. The part that's hard is when all the amps are really good and is hard to choose.


 
  


ken6217 said:


> I wish that's all I spent. Thats what I sent on my projector years ago with anamorphic lens. Now I try to keep the spending down to where I only buy three amps and keep the one that sounds best.


 
  
 All of you have quite a lot of disposable income. Do you have other expensive hobbies? Being addicted to visual audio stimulation is better than drug addiction at least lol.


----------



## Torq

jhljhl said:


> All of you have quite a lot of disposable income. Do you have other expensive hobbies? Being addicted to visual audio stimulation is better than drug addiction at least lol.


 

 I guess I'm lucky in that "Head Fi" is my least expensive hobby ... 
  
 Not that that makes it *in*expensive, just the _least_ expensive pastime in which I routinely indulge.  Photography (or at least the gear involved), diving, flying, cars, racing, travel, and my wine collection, all hit my bank account a lot harder.


----------



## leftside

At least the amps hold their value. Including headphone amps, I'm now up to seven. Two will be sold though. Good speakers, headphones and some preamps also hold their value relatively well. Anything remotely "tech" (think receivers, TV's, DAC's, etc) will depreciate greatly in value over time.


----------



## ken6217

My other hobby is motorcycles. However audio and video can really be spendy if you allow it to be. 

Video is the worst investment. Take a look at the how prices have come down and quality/technology has gone up over the years.


----------



## jerick70

Fast cars and computer systems are my other loves outside of audio (speakers and headphones). 
  
 Cars are even worse than video in depreciation I think.  You drive a new car off the lot and it's worth 10% less than you just paid for it and 65% less in 5 years.


----------



## jerick70

3083joe said:


> Very had to answer being there's so many.
> Ecc31 - need adapter
> Ecc32 - no adapter
> Ecc33 - no adapter
> ...


 
  
 I tried single EL3Ns in my WA22, with adapters, and they did not work.  Could it be that you may have to run 2 tubes per socket?


----------



## 3083joe

jerick70 said:


> I tried single EL3Ns in my WA22, with adapters, and they did not work.  Could it be that you may have to run 2 tubes per socket?



Yes you must run 2 (push pull)


----------



## phase0

Hauled my headphone setup into the living room today. Used the WA5 to drive my GoldenEar Triton 3. It's awesome. Normally I have them hooked to a Denon receiver. The WA5 drives the speakers nicely. A little extra special enjoyment for the afternoon. Since we're talking about having too much money to throw away. I wrestled with get the LE or the full blown version way back. Maybe it's overkill. But days like today it was pretty awesome to exercise the option and have a dual use tube amp I can use for speakers. Just kick back on the couch and read a book. Not locked in to headphones. Anyways still <3 the WA5...


----------



## Aussie Lou

3083joe said:


> Very had to answer being there's so many.
> Ecc31 - need adapter
> Ecc32 - no adapter
> Ecc33 - no adapter
> ...


 

 When using the EL3N's as power tubes in the WA22 will single tubes work and are these adapters suitable http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm even though recommended for Elise by Feliks Audio?


----------



## 3083joe

aussie lou said:


> When using the EL3N's as power tubes in the WA22 will single tubes work and are these adapters suitable http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-EL3N-TO-6SN7-Tube-adapter-For-Elise-by-Feliks-Audio-/201486463405?hash=item2ee98771ad:g:7PgAAOSw3KFWcjQm even though recommended for Elise by Feliks Audio?



No singles do not work. Wa22 is a push pull amp and has to have two of these! 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/191769639044 
It's a tight fit tho.


----------



## Aussie Lou

So dual El3n needed as power tubes also. Has anyone tried this in the WA22?


----------



## jerick70

aussie lou said:


> So dual El3n needed as power tubes also. Has anyone tried this in the WA22?




I haven't tried it but it should work.


----------



## 3083joe

aussie lou said:


> So dual El3n needed as power tubes also. Has anyone tried this in the WA22?



I did. Very tight but sounds great.


----------



## Aussie Lou

3083joe said:


> I did. Very tight but sounds great.




Joe did you prefer to use the El3n's as powers or drivers?


----------



## 3083joe

aussie lou said:


> Joe did you prefer to use the El3n's as powers or drivers?



Power. 
Couldn't find anything to compare to ecc35s as driver


----------



## Aussie Lou

3083joe said:


> Power.
> Couldn't find anything to compare to ecc35s as driver




Any comparison between TSRP and El3n?


----------



## 3083joe

aussie lou said:


> Any comparison between TSRP and El3n?



No I only used as power tubes. TSRP are drivers


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Hey guys thought I should share a new contender for first place best low priced rectifier!  Just ordered a backup set at US$10 for a NOS pair.  The NU 5W4GT I have been listening to for the past 2 hours in the 6SE is exceptional.  My research showed it should work in the WA6/6SE and Jack confirmed.  This tube is giving me a taste of some of the Magic I enjoy in music!
  
 Anyone else tried this?
  
 As always, YMMV - results optical from computer to Benchmark DAC1 to WA6SE driven by International big bottle 6DR7 to HD650 to ears to Smile!


----------



## Aussie Lou

3083joe said:


> No I only used as power tubes. TSRP are drivers


 

 Goodo! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
  
 I understood incorrectly thinking that the El3n's were used mainly as drivers.


----------



## 3083joe

aussie lou said:


> Goodo! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
> 
> I understood incorrectly thinking that the El3n's were used mainly as drivers.



They are in lots of amps but Glenn told me they would be better suited as power tubes Along with the 6bl7.


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> No singles do not work. Wa22 is a push pull amp and has to have two of these!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/191769639044
> It's a tight fit tho.


 

 Will you need a different adapter if you intend on using the EL3N as power tubes in the WA22?


----------



## Aussie Lou

3083joe said:


> They are in lots of amps but Glenn told me they would be better suited as power tubes Along with the 6bl7.


 
  
 Cheers Joe, you are a great person to have on this thread providing information on the WA22 even though you have moved on.


----------



## jhljhl

aussie lou said:


> Cheers Joe, you are a great person to have on this thread providing information on the WA22 even though you have moved on.


 
  
  
 Yes, we Americans are awesome!


----------



## Aussie Lou

jhljhl said:


> Yes, we Americans are awesome!


 
  
 Urban dictionary: AWSOME…”sticking plaster word Americans use to cover over huge gaps in their vocabulary. Awesome is one of the three words which make up most American sentences…those three words are”Omygod, awesome and schit…


----------



## Aussie Lou

Please don't take that the wrong way.


----------



## jhljhl

aussie lou said:


> Please don't take that the wrong way.


 
  
  
 Oh go throw another shrimp on barbie!


----------



## 3083joe

leftside said:


> Will you need a different adapter if you intend on using the EL3N as power tubes in the WA22?



No sir. 
This adapter works as driver or power adapter. So you can use this as 6sn7 or 6as7 (same pin out etc)


----------



## leftside

3083joe said:


> No sir.
> This adapter works as driver or power adapter. So you can use this as 6sn7 or 6as7 (same pin out etc)


 
 Awesome  Thanks


----------



## 3083joe

I'm telling you these adapters are huge. I will post a picture next to a 6SN7


----------



## Bitten by Bug

I am curious.  A number of WA22 owners and former owners have commented that GZ34 metal is not the best option.  They have also reported that 5Z4GY AKA Brimar is a winner. Does the Brimar also sound better than the WE422A?  Those are the two best sounds I have had in the 6SE.
  
 A NIB GZ34 arrived today. A 50 or 60 year old tube sounds outstanding!  From first fire it tied for first place in the WA6SE arena along with the WE422A.  Anyone know how old this bad boy is?
  

  
 Five minutes after the DHL courier knock on my door and a couple of scorched fingers later this was running. Was very eager to have a listen.  I wonder if there is a break in.
  
  
_Edit: typo_


----------



## Oskari

bitten by bug said:


> A NIB GZ34 arrived today. A 50 or 60 year old tube sounds outstanding!  From first fire it tied for first place in the WA6SE arena along with the WE422A.  Anyone know how old this bad boy is?




It'll be 60 in November.


----------



## Badas

oskari said:


> It'll be 60 in November.


 

 You might be able to sell yourself to the ladies as NOS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 I'm 46. So I'm one of those last gasp crappy tubes produced in the 70's.


----------



## 3083joe

bitten by bug said:


> I am curious.  A number of WA22 owners and former owners have commented that GZ34 metal is not the best option.  They have also reported that 5Z4GY AKA Brimar is a winner. Does the Brimar also sound better than the WE422A?  Those are the two best sounds I have had in the 6SE.
> 
> A NIB GZ34 arrived today. A 50 or 60 year old tube sounds outstanding!  From first fire it tied for first place in the WA6SE arena along with the WE422A.  Anyone know how old this bad boy is?
> 
> ...



Ok, we422 is a winner for Wa6 much better than brimar in my opinion.


----------



## Contrails

Any head-fi members that own the LCD-X and HD800S or heard them side by side? The reason I am asking on the Woo thread is because I am hoping to get a more objective response. 
  
 Regards


----------



## Bitten by Bug

oskari said:


> It'll be 60 in November.


 
  
 Thank you.  I figured someone had the magical date codex.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


badas said:


> You might be able to sell yourself to the ladies as NOS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 He He He he he.  I guess that taste of virginal tube porn got to you!  It is a great idea!  I am closer to the tubes, age and it is a good line.
  
 You tried lots of tubes in the WA22. did you try the WE422A?
  


3083joe said:


> Ok, we422 is a winner for Wa6 much better than brimar in my opinion.


 
  
 Thanks. It is good to know.  I have not had a chance to try on WA6 as burn in just finished.  Did not want to risk that rare of a tube on a new amp.
  


contrails said:


> Any head-fi members that own the LCD-X and HD800S or heard them side by side? The reason I am asking on the Woo thread is because I am hoping to get a more objective response.
> 
> Regards


 
  
 Thanks @Contrails, I too am quite interested. 
  
 Oh and for WIW I did post my SP Mesh 274b review in the wa6/6se thread if any one is interested,


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> He He He he he.  I guess that taste of virginal tube porn got to you!  It is a great idea!  I am closer to the tubes, age and it is a good line.
> 
> *You tried lots of tubes in the WA22. did you try the WE422A?*
> 
> ...


 
 ^
 Unfortunately I have not tried the WE422A. I would like to. I have removed the TAK274B and gone back to the Brimar 5Z4GY. My first one that I've used has about 500 hours on it now. Carbon has tinted it black. This tube improves even further with age. It is now so damn smooth. I can't hear much of an advantage with the TAK274B. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is that close.
  
 HD800S is the best dynamic HP in my opinion. Really is great. Compared to the LCD-X. Better treble (they have fixed it), soundstage and comfort, Similar mid-range. Less Bass.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> ^
> Unfortunately I have not tried the WE422A. I would like to. I have removed the TAK274B and gone back to the Brimar 5Z4GY. My first one that I've used has about 500 hours on it now. Carbon has tinted it black. This tube improves even further with age. It is now so damn smooth. I can't hear much of an advantage with the TAK274B. :eek: It is that close.
> 
> HD800S is the best dynamic HP in my opinion. Really is great. Compared to the LCD-X. Better treble (they have fixed it), soundstage and comfort, Similar mid-range. Less Bass.



I tried every tube there is in my wa22 
Tak274b was top dog. 
Followed by we274a
Cossor 53ku
U52 
We422 
Brimar 5r4
Tried all except we274a & tak274b in my wa6 also


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> ^
> Unfortunately I have not tried the WE422A. I would like to. I have removed the TAK274B and gone back to the Brimar 5Z4GY. My first one that I've used has about 500 hours on it now. Carbon has tinted it black. This tube improves even further with age. It is now so damn smooth. I can't hear much of an advantage with the TAK274B.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks @Badas. Curious about what sounds good, in general, in what amp. I just find it so interesting that the Brimar does the trick in WA22 and to me is meh in 6SE.  And how metal is a commander in 6SE and so-so in WA22.  Once I can pry myself away from the new metal base tube, do want to pop the Brimar into WA6 now that is is burned in and have a listen there also.  It is wired differently than the 6SE and can accept a wider range of drivers.   Also, IIRC the Brimar was staring to discolor at 10 hours. Only have 70.5 hours logged.
  
 Thank you for your HP commentary.  I am trying to get a handle on the bass comment.  To you, does the HD800S lack bass or does the LCD-X color the presentation by having more bass?  Or is it combintion of both?  Any expansion appreciated....not putting you on the spot.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


3083joe said:


> I tried every tube there is in my wa22
> Tak274b was top dog.
> Followed by we274a
> Cossor 53ku
> ...


 
  
 Thanks sharing the info on the WA22.  Noting the exceptions, did the order change at all for you with the WA6?  Did you get a chance to try your GZ34 metal in the WA6?  If so where did it rank.  Thank you.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> Thanks @Badas. Curious about what sounds good, in general, in what amp. I just find it so interesting that the Brimar does the trick in WA22 and to me is meh in 6SE.  And how metal is a commander in 6SE and so-so in WA22.  Once I can pry myself away from the new metal base tube, do want to pop the Brimar into WA6 now that is is burned in and have a listen there also.  It is wired differently than the 6SE and can accept a wider range of drivers.   Also, IIRC the Brimar was staring to discolor at 10 hours. Only have 70.5 hours logged.
> 
> Thank you for your HP commentary.  *I am trying to get a handle on the bass comment.  To you, does the HD800S lack bass or does the LCD-X color the presentation by having more bass?  Or is it combintion of both?  Any expansion appreciated....not putting you on the spot.*


 
 I also had the normal HD800 at the same time. HD800S had more bass than the normal HD800 (which I think is lacking bass).
 HD800S was certainly impressive for a dynamic driver and bass. However I don't expect we will see a dynamic driver compete against a planar in that area.
 If I was going to guess I would say the LCD-X was flat on bass and the HD800S just dropped off a tiny bit (say about 3db). If you didn't own the LCD-X at the same time
 as the HD800S you wouldn't feel like you were missing anything from the LCD-X (you're not). Bass delved deep and was clearly rendered. It just didn't have that planar
 visceral feeling.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> I also had the normal HD800 at the same time. HD800S had more bass than the normal HD800 (which I think is lacking bass).
> HD800S was certainly impressive for a dynamic driver and bass. However I don't expect we will see a dynamic driver compete against a planar in that area.
> If I was going to guess I would say the LCD-X was flat on bass and the HD800S just dropped off a tiny bit (say about 3db). If you didn't own the LCD-X at the same time
> as the HD800S you wouldn't feel like you were missing anything from the LCD-X (you're not). Bass delved deep and was clearly rendered. It just didn't have that planar
> visceral feeling.


 

 You read deeply into the question perfectly and provided a concise answer.  Thank you.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> You read deeply into the question perfectly and provided a concise answer.  Thank you.


 

 I try my best. Sometimes I help. Sometimes I fail.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

I guess the obvious answer is to get both.  He he.  Maybe later.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
_Edit:  Did not see response.   _You did well.  Thanks again.


----------



## 3083joe

bitten by bug said:


> Thanks @Badas. Curious about what sounds good, in general, in what amp. I just find it so interesting that the Brimar does the trick in WA22 and to me is meh in 6SE.  And how metal is a commander in 6SE and so-so in WA22.  Once I can pry myself away from the new metal base tube, do want to pop the Brimar into WA6 now that is is burned in and have a listen there also.  It is wired differently than the 6SE and can accept a wider range of drivers.   Also, IIRC the Brimar was staring to discolor at 10 hours. Only have 70.5 hours logged.
> 
> Thank you for your HP commentary.  I am trying to get a handle on the bass comment.  To you, does the HD800S lack bass or does the LCD-X color the presentation by having more bass?  Or is it combintion of both?  Any expansion appreciated....not putting you on the spot.
> 
> ...



Never got a chance to try the metal gz34 on wa6, but in my wa22 I didn't like it at all. Very similar to mullard gz32. To mellow I think. At least for my ears.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

3083joe said:


> Never got a chance to try the metal gz34 on wa6, but in my wa22 I didn't like it at all. Very similar to mullard gz32. To mellow I think. At least for my ears.


 

 Thank you for your response.  This is so very interesting and maybe we are beginning to uncover something. Oh,and BTW, the Mullard GZ32 is one of the better 6SE tubes for me.  I took another peek at your rankings and noticed the Cossor 53KU in third place.  Superb tube!  I find mine to present more of the 'clinical' sound signature in the 6SE when compared to theGZ32s, GZ34s and WE422A. I have not heard the two tubes you have placed above it in the 6SE yet and wonder if those are also on the 'clinical' side.
  
 If that is the case, possibly rectifiers that are 'tubey sounding' are less favored in the WA22?


----------



## shield

I feel almost uncomfortable for asking a newby question here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thing is that I am contemplating purchasing the WA22 or the WA5-LE. Do I need a dac in the chain or can it be left out? What are the pro or cons? As source I plan to use a Soundaware Esther M1pro (DAP). I love that analogue sound of the DAP, so if I can leave a DAC out that would be great. The idea is not to place to much in the signal path that will change the sound signature that I like so much about this DAP. The DAP has a amplifier out connection btw.


----------



## Krutsch

I've been traveling that last 2 weeks and somehow missed the whole "... I have a new DAC..." discussion in the Woo thread.
  
 Anyway, I have a new DAC: a Bel Canto REFLink + DAC 2.5, as a replacement for the (still much loved) Rega.


----------



## jerick70

krutsch said:


> I've been traveling that last 2 weeks and somehow missed the whole "... I have a new DAC..." discussion in the Woo thread.
> 
> Anyway, I have a new DAC: a Bel Canto REFLink + DAC 2.5, as a replacement for the (still much loved) Rega.




Now this complicates things. The Bel Canto looks so nice. Which new dac do I get now?


----------



## jerick70

shield said:


> I feel almost uncomfortable for asking a newby question here! :rolleyes:  Thing is that I am contemplating purchasing the WA22 or the WA5-LE. Do I need a dac in the chain or can it be left out? What are the pro or cons? As source I plan to use a Soundaware Esther M1pro (DAP). I love that analogue sound of the DAP, so if I can leave a DAC out that would be great. The idea is not to place to much in the signal path that will change the sound signature that I like so much about this DAP. The DAP has a amplifier out connection btw.




Hi shield, 

No you don't need a DAC in the chain if you are going to use your DAP. You can use a 3.5mm to RCA adapter cable to connect your DAP to the WA22. 

But if you want to connect the WA22 to your computer you will want a DAC. The Soundaware Esther M1pro may work as a DAC, but I can't seem to find any info pertaining to that.


----------



## Krutsch

jerick70 said:


> Now this complicates things. The Bel Canto looks so nice. Which new dac do I get now?


 

 Notice that they are "previous generation" ... find a dealer and see if they will part with left-over stock at a great price (the X.7 models are now out, although the REFLink is still current - mine just has the previous faceplate).
 That's how I buy most of my audio gear now. Buying FOTM will kill your wallet - Head-Fi is a marathon, not a sprint


----------



## reeltime

shield said:


> I feel almost uncomfortable for asking a newby question here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It depends on your source chain.  I started this adventure with a used turntable, pre-amp and a used Woo WA6 headphone amp.  All analog. I rolled some tubes, upgraded, until I found a good deal on a WA5-LE.  I upgraded to the version 2 when my V1 amp died.  I got a credit from Woo to offset the upgrade cost.
  
 I later added a digital chain with a good DAC and gradually bought and sold more used gear until I got where I was happy with my rig.  Along the way I discovered that I was really impressed by DSD files and their sound.  So adding native DSD to my playback chain was important for me to pursue.  Not everyone is sold on DSD, to me, it's the best digital source available.
  
 The important thing to know: There's always a better headphone, better DAC, better amp.  You can sink tens of thousands of dollars into the hobby and still not be satisfied.  Sometimes you'll come to realize that you're pursuing different, not necessarily better.  That's a good distinction to learn.
  
 Find what pleases you, and stick with it until you want to go in a new direction.  I'd advise buying used gear in good condition.  Look for deals.


----------



## Krutsch

reeltime said:


> The important thing to know: There's always a better headphone, better DAC, better amp.  You can sink tens of thousands of dollars into the hobby and still not be satisfied.  Sometimes you'll come to realize that you're pursuing different, not necessarily better.  That's a good distinction to learn.
> 
> *Find what pleases you, and stick with it until you want to go in a new direction*.  *I'd advise buying used gear in good condition.  Look for deals.  *


 
  
 Best advice I've seen from anyone on Head-Fi in a long time. Words of wisdom, fellow Head-Fi'er


----------



## ken6217

krutsch said:


> Best advice I've seen from anyone on Head-Fi in a long time. Words of wisdom, fellow Head-Fi'er


 

 If they got together all of the Head Fi members that can follow that wisdom, you would be able to ft them in a phone booth.


----------



## jerick70

ken6217 said:


> If they got together all of the Head Fi members that can follow that wisdom, you would be able to ft them in a phone booth.


 
  
 LOL.....  I would *DEFINITELY NOT* be in the phone booth.


----------



## ken6217

jerick70 said:


> LOL.....  I would *DEFINITELY NOT* be in the phone booth.


 

 I wouldn't even be in the same country as the phone booth.


----------



## jerick70

ken6217 said:


> I wouldn't even be in the same country as the phone booth.




Oh I failed to mention my distance from the phone booth. I wouldn't even be in the Milky Way Galaxy...... Sorry there's not a place to pin where I'm at on the map. LOL.


----------



## jerick70

Lol to much fun. 

On that note.... I'm looking for a new dac now. Has anyone run the Gumby or the Yggy with the WA22?


----------



## phase0

krutsch said:


> The important thing to know: There's always a better headphone, better DAC, better amp.  You can sink tens of thousands of dollars into the hobby and still not be satisfied.  Sometimes you'll come to realize that you're pursuing different, not necessarily better.  That's a good distinction to learn.
> 
> *Find what pleases you, and stick with it until you want to go in a new direction*.  *I'd advise buying used gear in good condition.  Look for deals.  *


 
  
 Along with that patience to wait. I looked around for a used Yggdrasil one day and didn't find one. Got a new one on the way to evaluate. I hope I like it as much as all the hype says I should.
  


shield said:


> I feel almost uncomfortable for asking a newby question here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a WA5 and a Cowon P1. I tried using the Cowon as a source and I didn't like it as much as a dedicated setup. I would say if you aspire to have something more top of the line some day you could go for the WA5-LE as a planning-for-the-future move. If you're just going to use your DAP I'd probably aim more towards the WA22. If you go too high-end on your desktop setup it might also change your perspective on your DAP.
  
 I just watched a You Tube video trying to dispel audiophile myths. Based on that I can warn you ahead of time, don't waste your HD space by getting lossless music, go mp3 as no human can tell the difference, run far away from tubes they're all terrible and destroy the audio and are horribly inefficient, don't spend more than $300 on your solid state amp, etc... oh if I only had seen this video first, how much time and money could I have saved. *sigh*  ...but their recommendations are not consistent with the jaw dropping amazement that was induced by listening to my fancy higher end setup. People spend their money on all kinds of things. I think I could do worse than this hobby.


----------



## ymc226

I Googled this but now that I just received my 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters from Woo, what is the difference between 6F8G and 6C8G tubes? The latter seem cheaper and more available and use the same adapter.


----------



## versace

i have ran both with the WA22, they are both great. the yggy is what im with atm i have 0 complaints. 


jerick70 said:


> Lol to much fun.
> 
> On that note.... I'm looking for a new dac now. Has anyone run the Gumby or the Yggy with the WA22?


----------



## jerick70

versace said:


> i have ran both with the WA22, they are both great. the yggy is what im with atm i have 0 complaints.


 
  
 Awesome.  Thanks for your input!  Do you think you can do better with a different DAC? 
  
 What other DACs have you used with the WA22 and how do they compare to the yggy and gumby?


----------



## versace

jerick70 said:


> Awesome.  Thanks for your input!  Do you think you can do better with a different DAC?
> 
> What other DACs have you used with the WA22 and how do they compare to the yggy and gumby?


 
  The Bimby as well, the only other dac i wish i tried was a lampi gen 4, the gumby is warmish kinda to the yggy, there is a difference, however the yggy just sounds so well how do i put this "right" like its just this massive music block of wonders thats accurate,and analytical but its polite about it. so it has its own great sound that compliments the WA22's lush gooey tube sound in a great way. the gumby is also fantactic but its warmer and just doesn't have the same effect, but instead has its own lush sound that goes with the wa22 in its own way.


----------



## jerick70

versace said:


> The Bimby as well, the only other dac i wish i tried was a lampi gen 4, the gumby is warmish kinda to the yggy, there is a difference, however the yggy just sounds so well how do i put this "right" like its just this massive music block of wonders thats accurate,and analytical but its polite about it. so it has its own great sound that compliments the WA22's lush gooey tube sound in a great way. the gumby is also fantactic but its warmer and just doesn't have the same effect, but instead has its own lush sound that goes with the wa22 in its own way.


 
  
 They both sound like fabulous DACs.  I am leaning toward the yggy from your description.  Which headphones do you use?


----------



## versace

I run the HEK's but i have also owned the HD800's


jerick70 said:


> They both sound like fabulous DACs.  I am leaning toward the yggy from your description.  Which headphones do you use?


----------



## jerick70

versace said:


> I run the HEK's but i have also owned the HD800's


 
  
 I've been wanting to get a pair of HD800Ss.  How do they compare with the HEKs?
  
 I have the ZMF Omnis and love them.  I'm a ortho guy at heart.


----------



## versace

well the HEK for me is perfect everyones ears are different though. i also really like the HD800's! i think the HEK's are just sonically superior in almost every way except sound staging and treble. YMMV i just really love my HEK's but if i did not have the money i would still have my HD800's and i would not have any complaints. the WA22 just drives both HP's to amazing levels and with all the tube options out there, the sound can just be changed at a moments notice! just fantastic!


----------



## jerick70

versace said:


> well the HEK for me is perfect everyones ears are different though. i also really like the HD800's! i think the HEK's are just sonically superior in almost every way except sound staging and treble. YMMV i just really love my HEK's but if i did not have the money i would still have my HD800's and i would not have any complaints. the WA22 just drives both HP's to amazing levels and with all the tube options out there, the sound can just be changed at a moments notice! just fantastic!


 
  
 Ok now my wallet is starting to SCREAM!!!!!  LOL. What do you think made the biggest impact in your sound quality, the HEK or the yggy?


----------



## versace

jerick70 said:


> Ok now my wallet is starting to SCREAM!!!!!  LOL. What do you think made the biggest impact in your sound quality, the HEK or the yggy?


 
  
 that is a hard question to answer, logically i'm going to say the HEK.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Latest tubes added to the collection... Tung-Sol BGRP 6SU7GT stamped as 5691. Bought these on a lark after seeing someone here talk about the WE422A/TS5998/TS6SU7GT combo. Initial impression is good but haven't listened much yet.


----------



## jerick70

versace said:


> that is a hard question to answer, logically i'm going to say the HEK.


 
  
 Decisions decisions.  I may just have to get both.


----------



## leftside

What type of fuse does the WA22 take?


----------



## Badas

versace said:


> that is a hard question to answer, logically i'm going to say the HEK.







jerick70 said:


> Decisions decisions.  I may just have to get both.




And I have to throw a spanner in the works. Sorry. I suport the DAC for making the biggest improvement. 
Although I haven't heard the HE1K I did listen to the following HP's on my WA22. HD800, HD800S, LCD-X, LCD-3 and Ether C. None made a big of a difference than what changing the DAC did. HP's were like tweaks. DAC improved everything.


----------



## versace

badas said:


> And I have to throw a spanner in the works. Sorry. I suport the DAC for making the biggest improvement.
> Although I haven't heard the HE1K I did listen to the following HP's on my WA22. HD800, HD800S, LCD-X, LCD-3 and Ether C. None made a big of a difference than what changing the DAC did. HP's were like tweaks. DAC improved everything.


 
 well, it is a huge part of it! its very hard for me to say. the DAC was huge the HP was huge and the amps + tubes have also been huge! i will say the HP can only be as good as the source!


----------



## leftside

leftside said:


> What type of fuse does the WA22 take?


 

 Answer my own question. Was too lazy to search this morning:
 3.15 amp 250V slow-blow fuse. 5mm * 20mm.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> Answer my own question. Was too lazy to search this morning:
> 3.15 amp 250V slow-blow fuse. 5mm * 20mm.


 

 Some disagree but a fuse is a tweak as dramatic sometimes as driver tube change.


----------



## Porteroso

bitten by bug said:


> Hey guys thought I should share a new contender for first place best low priced rectifier!  Just ordered a backup set at US$10 for a NOS pair.  The NU 5W4GT I have been listening to for the past 2 hours in the 6SE is exceptional.  My research showed it should work in the WA6/6SE and Jack confirmed.  This tube is giving me a taste of some of the Magic I enjoy in music!
> 
> Anyone else tried this?
> 
> As always, YMMV - results optical from computer to Benchmark DAC1 to WA6SE driven by International big bottle 6DR7 to HD650 to ears to Smile!


 
 At 7.50 per rectifier, shipped, they'd have to be plain bad to not be worth that price. I'm in for a pair, and if they're good, I'll probably get a few more.
  
 edit: Also about rectifiers, I think it's been established that any tube can sound different in different configurations. Different amps ask different things of their tubes. The Brimar might sound better in one amp than another, who knows. For me, it is very good, but just not at the level of the top rectifiers. It's recommended so much because of the price, and it is only beat by a few tubes.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

porteroso said:


> At 7.50 per rectifier, shipped, they'd have to be plain bad to not be worth that price. I'm in for a pair, and if they're good, I'll probably get a few more.
> 
> edit: Also about rectifiers, I think it's been established that any tube can sound different in different configurations. Different amps ask different things of their tubes. The Brimar might sound better in one amp than another, who knows. For me, it is very good, but just not at the level of the top rectifiers. It's recommended so much because of the price, and it is only beat by a few tubes.


 

 Hope you enjoy!


----------



## leftside

jhljhl said:


> Some disagree but a fuse is a tweak as dramatic sometimes as driver tube change.


 
 In one way it's the same. No fuse = no sound. No tube = no sound.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> In one way it's the same. No fuse = no sound. No tube = no sound.


 
 It's possible that ymmv.  I could after I bought an amp with one pre-installed compared to generic it was superior.


----------



## Shini44

contrails said:


> I have listened to the Metal Base GZ34 and my impressions were that it was an overrated tube as well.  To me the tube sounded like it lacked emotion unlike the GZ32.  The Bass on this tube is very good, but the rest did sound slightly muddy in comparison to the top tiers.  The best tube I have heard is the TAK274b and then the WE422a in second. Maybe, Metal base GZ34 is not suited for the WA22 and definitely not worth what it sells for.


 
 the Metal Base GZ34 shines more with the WA5-LE, with the WA22 its another story to the max. 
  
 tubes react differently when it comes to a different tube amp designs etc. i won't call it overrated at all, people who praised it was using it on the WA5-LE.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> And I have to throw a spanner in the works. Sorry. I suport the DAC for making the biggest improvement.
> Although I haven't heard the HE1K I did listen to the following HP's on my WA22. HD800, HD800S, LCD-X, LCD-3 and Ether C. None made a big of a difference than what changing the DAC did. HP's were like tweaks. DAC improved everything.


 
  
@Badas Your opinion is much appreciated.  I'm leaning toward the DAC making the biggest difference too.  Not sure which DAC to upgrade to though.


----------



## Shini44

will order 2x BRIMAR 5Z4GY for the WA5-LE, also bought Mullard GZ34 (black base) matched pair.
  
 good start i guess, tell i go later with the Metal Base, TAK set and Elrog <3. my WA5-LE will be here later next week or so.
  

  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/5Z4GY-CV1863-KB-FE-STC-BRIMAR-NOS-BOXED/310653909306?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&_trksid=p5197.c100068.m2280&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211130857%26meid%3D2b2a71e031ab4251bb277c585af10b9d%26pid%3D100068%26clkid%3D5564052795993498344&_qi=RTM2063723
  
  
 should i be worried about getting a matched pair or? since this is for the WA5-LE. or i will be fine with order two tubes and just using them without worried about a channel over powering the other one?


----------



## u2u2

shini44 said:


> will order 2x BRIMAR 5Z4GY for the WA5-LE, also bought Mullard GZ34 (black base) matched pair.
> 
> good start i guess, tell i go later with the Metal Base, TAK set and Elrog <3. my WA5-LE will be here later next week or so.
> 
> ...


 

 I have a fair number of carefully matched pairs of power and driver tubes. I also have a fair number of pairs that were not matched. All the unmatched pairs were sourced from known reliable sellers of true NOS like your Brimar 5Z4GY. No issues what so ever but my amps are only a WA6 and WA22. I think you will be fine.


----------



## jhljhl

shini44 said:


> the Metal Base GZ34 shines more with the WA5-LE, with the WA22 its another story to the max.
> 
> tubes react differently when it comes to a different tube amp designs etc. i won't call it overrated at all, people who praised it was using it on the WA5-LE.


 
  
  
 I bought a pristine bugle boy logo NOS metal gz34. I thought the midrange was really liquid and holographic in the wa22 and enjoyed it for that. It is not as resolving or have as wide a sound stage as a we274 but I liked the midrange. That's its real strength I try to like it for what it is. Some people think that it is muddy and slow so ymmv. I've heard other metal gz34 that were good with the midrange also but this one bugle boy really stood out in the wa22. It is nice in the wa5le more resolving than the non-metal I think.


----------



## Badas

shini44 said:


> will order 2x BRIMAR 5Z4GY for the WA5-LE, also bought Mullard GZ34 (black base) matched pair.
> 
> good start i guess, tell i go later with the Metal Base, TAK set and Elrog <3. my WA5-LE will be here later next week or so.
> 
> ...




Tony used a lot of these Brimars from the same supplier in his WA5. No issues at all. It's real obvious that they are NOS so will be closely matched anyway. Just make sure you clean those pins. I got a lot f gunk off them.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> And I have to throw a spanner in the works. Sorry. I suport the DAC for making the biggest improvement.
> Although I haven't heard the HE1K I did listen to the following HP's on my WA22. HD800, HD800S, LCD-X, LCD-3 and Ether C. None made a big of a difference than what changing the DAC did. HP's were like tweaks. DAC improved everything.


 
  
 I would still lean towards the speakers are most important, but the amp+DAC are also hugely important too. If you skimp somewhere you'll be missing the full potential. I just unwrapped my new Yggdrasil today. Straight out of the box I like it more than the Mytek. It sounds smoother. It's very nicely detailed. It will be a few days before this thing is at optimal. Yggy just feels better and more comfortable to listen too. The WA5 was just okay IMO after I had it a while. I felt like it was overpriced for what I got. Then I upgraded the tubes and it really seems elevated now.
  
 The funniest thing about this whole headphone deal. I started by looking at headphones, and at the time thought I was really going to break the bank on nice headphones. Now they're the cheapest part of my setup...


----------



## longbowbbs

phase0 said:


> The funniest thing about this whole headphone deal. I started by looking at headphones, and at the time thought I was really going to break the bank on nice headphones. Now they're the cheapest part of my setup...


 
 Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet...


----------



## Krutsch

phase0 said:


> ...
> 
> The funniest thing about *this whole headphone deal*. I started by looking at headphones, and at the time thought I was really going to break the bank on *nice headphones. Now they're the cheapest part of my setup...*


 
  
 That made me laugh, out-loud. My electronics spend has gotten out of control, yet I soldier on with my 4 mid-range cans.
  
 Now that I type that, it makes me a little sad


----------



## leftside

krutsch said:


> That made me laugh, out-loud. My electronics spend has gotten out of control, yet I soldier on with my 4 mid-range cans.
> 
> Now that I type that, it makes me a little sad


 
 It's only on here that  those are mid-range cans. To 99% of the general public those are high-end.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Tony used a lot of these Brimars from the same supplier in his WA5. No issues at all. It's real obvious that they are NOS so will be closely matched anyway. Just make sure you clean those pins. I got a lot f gunk off them.


 

 @Badas, that is Langrex.  You have lots from them too.


----------



## Porteroso

phase0 said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > And I have to throw a spanner in the works. Sorry. I suport the DAC for making the biggest improvement.
> ...


 
 Yes, it's generally accepted that the speakers can change the sound the most. Probably the amp after that. And dac last. Dacs can make a huge difference, and in everyone's setup upgrading different things will result in a bigger or smaller difference in sound, but there is just more variety in speakers, and even amps, than dacs.


----------



## phase0

This was the quote I was thinking of a ways back when I was thinking about the value of a Woo amp (And that quote is about the WA-234). It's not the highest rated amp in his round up but when it comes time to relax Tyll choose the Woo.
  
 Quote:


> I have to admit that when I had a half hour to just kick back and listen late in the evening, this is the amp I'd fire up.


 
  
 Source: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps
  
 Since I just got the Schiit Yggy I'm wondering if I should get a Ragnarok too match? The thought didn't even occur to me until about 30 min ago and I'm wondering about Ragnarok vs V281 which is "better"? Right now I'm leaning towards keeping the V281 since I heard it and liked it but there would be a benefit at least from a stackable organization and fashion sense in having an all Schiit stack or all Violectric stack. If I'm planning on having a SS amp (and I am)... it's a good time to figure out which one is better while I can still return the V281 if I should switch. I'm not really asking for opinions here since I know this is the Woo thread and don't need to fly off topic. I'm just search and found that quote I wanted to share since I have the link on hand.
  
 Regardless of those SS musings I still think the WA5 will be my go-to amp.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Source: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps
> 
> Since I just got the Schiit Yggy I'm wondering if I should get a Ragnarok too match? The thought didn't even occur to me until about 30 min ago and I'm wondering about Ragnarok vs V281 which is "better"? Right now I'm leaning towards keeping the V281 since I heard it and liked it but there would be a benefit at least from a stackable organization and fashion sense in having an all Schiit stack or all Violectric stack. If I'm planning on having a SS amp (and I am)... it's a good time to figure out which one is better while I can still return the V281 if I should switch. I'm not really asking for opinions here since I know this is the Woo thread and don't need to fly off topic. I'm just search and found that quote I wanted to share since I have the link on hand.
> 
> Regardless of those SS musings I still think the WA5 will be my go-to amp.


 

 I'd like to hear a comparison between the rag and v281 and the wa5.


----------



## artemart

jhljhl said:


> I'd like to hear a comparison between the rag and v281 and the wa5.


 
 Jhlijhl I have heard 3 different rag's when looking for new amp to upgrade form my mjolnir.
  
 1) Setup GMB(USB), rag and HEK.
 I really did not think it was worth upgrading from my mjolnir.
  
 2) Setup Yggdrasil, rag and HEK.
 I liked it and but it was not worth the upgrading to this amp.
  
 3) Setup Yggdrasil, rag and HEK at CanJams SoCal.
 Oddly enough that combo at SoCal sounded so much better then I have heard before. When asked one of the schiit owners why this set up sounded better then others he told me that it is newer model so when you are looking at comparison the model of rag will matter too.
  
 Note: When buying schiit amps I would strongly recommend testing it with a power conditioner or power plant.
 (This experience may be different for every one due to people having different levels of noise in their power lines).
  
 As for comparison between rag and WA5-LE I would say WA5-LE is clear winner to me. I would not get WA5-LE fully upgraded over Ragnarok if it was just a small upgrade, but then again you should listen to equipment before buying because every one's tastes are different.


----------



## Badas

bitten by bug said:


> @Badas, that is Langrex.  You have lots from them too.




Yeah. But I don't use two at a time. I don't need matched. That is why I eluded to Tony's usage.


----------



## u2u2

badas said:


> Yeah. But I don't use two at a time. I don't need matched. That is why I eluded to Tony's usage.


 

 I know very little about electronics and my amps also use only one rectifier. When seeking out my probable end game rectifiers I learned that each has two circuits and that matching the sections within a rectifier can pay dividends. Each rectifier was supplied with four voltage values. Two forward and two reverse. Each of my 1958 Valvo labelled GZ34, as an example, are matched in each measure to within 0.01 volts but two of the valves have forward voltages such that I would expect the pair to be poorly matched for use in a two rectifier amp. If I have it right you want to match values within a tube and then if they are paired, between the pair, to get best results. I think it is no accident my matched rectifiers are my favourite even though I use only one at a time.
  
 Be interested in any thoughts on this topic from someone with an electronic background. My bet is you can, just like I have, improve your musical experience by internally matching even one rectifier.


----------



## leftside

u2u2 said:


> I know very little about electronics and my amps also use only one rectifier. When seeking out my probable end game rectifiers I learned that each has two circuits and that matching the sections within a rectifier can pay dividends. Each rectifier was supplied with four voltage values. Two forward and two reverse. Each of my 1958 Valvo labelled GZ34, as an example, are matched in each measure to within 0.01 volts but two of the valves have forward voltages such that I would expect the pair to be poorly matched for use in a two rectifier amp. If I have it right you want to match values within a tube and then if they are paired, between the pair, to get best results. I think it is no accident my matched rectifiers are my favourite even though I use only one at a time.
> 
> Be interested in any thoughts on this topic from someone with an electronic background. My bet is you can, just like I have, improve your musical experience by internally matching even one rectifier.


 

 From what I have learned the last few months, this is exactly true. It also might be one of the reasons (I'm sure there are many others) for varying listening results regarding tubes (especially when two are required).


----------



## leftside

Jack Woo will be in Vancouver at the Headphone Bar in Vancouver Sunday June 5th:
 http://headphonebar.com/headphonebar.com/blog/meet-jack-wu-of-woo-audio-in-store-june-5/


----------



## Badas

u2u2 said:


> I know very little about electronics and my amps also use only one rectifier. When seeking out my probable end game rectifiers I learned that each has two circuits and that matching the sections within a rectifier can pay dividends. Each rectifier was supplied with four voltage values. Two forward and two reverse. Each of my 1958 Valvo labelled GZ34, as an example, are matched in each measure to within 0.01 volts but two of the valves have forward voltages such that I would expect the pair to be poorly matched for use in a two rectifier amp. If I have it right you want to match values within a tube and then if they are paired, between the pair, to get best results. I think it is no accident my matched rectifiers are my favourite even though I use only one at a time.
> 
> Be interested in any thoughts on this topic from someone with an electronic background. My bet is you can, just like I have, improve your musical experience by internally matching even one rectifier.


 

 Interesting post. I hadn't thought about matching triodes. It is a fair point.
 From what I understand the Woo circuits have auto bias controls on the circuits. So they will adjust to a small degree. I have been told by another member that the harder those circuits have to adjust the poorer the sound quality. So what you are saying makes sense.
  
 Only way to assure that these tubes are close and matched is to have a tester. The tubes will also have to be tested throughout their life. Sounds like too much hard work to me.


----------



## jhljhl

phase0 said:


> Source: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps
> 
> Since I just got the Schiit Yggy I'm wondering if I should get a Ragnarok too match? The thought didn't even occur to me until about 30 min ago and I'm wondering about Ragnarok vs V281 which is "better"? Right now I'm leaning towards keeping the V281 since I heard it and liked it but there would be a benefit at least from a stackable organization and fashion sense in having an all Schiit stack or all Violectric stack. If I'm planning on having a SS amp (and I am)... it's a good time to figure out which one is better while I can still return the V281 if I should switch. I'm not really asking for opinions here since I know this is the Woo thread and don't need to fly off topic. I'm just search and found that quote I wanted to share since I have the link on hand.
> 
> Regardless of those SS musings I still think the WA5 will be my go-to amp.


 
  
 Not surprising the WA5le is a forgiving and nonfatiguing amp. Also, euphonic and lush and romantic midrange rich amp.
  


artemart said:


> Jhlijhl I have heard 3 different rag's when looking for new amp to upgrade form my mjolnir.
> 
> 1) Setup GMB(USB), rag and HEK.
> I really did not think it was worth upgrading from my mjolnir.
> ...


 
  
 What is the rag sound sig like? I'm guessing warm but analytical which the WA5le is not.


----------



## Porteroso

leftside said:


> From what I have learned the last few months, this is exactly true. It also might be one of the reasons (I'm sure there are many others) for varying listening results regarding tubes (especially when two are required).


 
 I have read this over and over, but I have never found it to be true. I have mixed a few tubes from matched sets, and I cannot tell any difference in sound. I believe that if you had 2 tubes testing very differently, there would be some effect on the sound. And I believe that the biasing part of the circuit would put some strain on the sound, the harder it had to work, but in practice, tubes from the same era, of the same usage, are very close, almost all of the time. And tubes also just wear differently. If they didn't, they would always blow out at the same time. But I've never heard someone say "I put in a matched pair, and they were great, but the more I use them, the worse they get. They must be less and less matched."
  
 If anything, people say tubes are better with time. So I personally believe that in theory, it matters. Just like in theory, any tube that meets a certain specification (like all VT-99) should sound the same. But in practice, I don't think the difference is audible in most cases. Same tubes, same usages, they will sound just like a pair that someone sells you "matched" for more money. Of course, it's just my opinion.


----------



## ken6217

phase0 said:


> Source: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps
> 
> Since I just got the Schiit Yggy I'm wondering if I should get a Ragnarok too match? The thought didn't even occur to me until about 30 min ago and I'm wondering about Ragnarok vs V281 which is "better"? Right now I'm leaning towards keeping the V281 since I heard it and liked it but there would be a benefit at least from a stackable organization and fashion sense in having an all Schiit stack or all Violectric stack. If I'm planning on having a SS amp (and I am)... it's a good time to figure out which one is better while I can still return the V281 if I should switch. I'm not really asking for opinions here since I know this is the Woo thread and don't need to fly off topic. I'm just search and found that quote I wanted to share since I have the link on hand.
> 
> Regardless of those SS musings I still think the WA5 will be my go-to amp.


 
 You'll be disappointed if you switch the V281 for the Rag. The Yiggy will be better than the Violectric DAC. If your looking for pretty and fashion over sound, then.....hmmmm.
  
 Another option for you is an Exogal Comet Plus. Very, very musical. You can get them new for $2500.00 or maybe a little less.


----------



## phase0

ken6217 said:


> You'll be disappointed if you switch the V281 for the Rag. The Yiggy will be better than the Violectric DAC. If your looking for pretty and fashion over sound, then.....hmmmm.
> 
> Another option for you is an Exogal Comet Plus. Very, very musical. You can get them new for $2500.00 or maybe a little less.


 
  
 Thanks for the input. I'm not looking for fashion over sound. I don't want to be that guy. It was just a thought. The Yggy seems to be pretty great, what if the Rag is too? Would it be better to go that route (easier to change course now)? The V281 praise is pretty universal except one guy who rates it as float it down the LA river (same rating as the Mytek DAC I got). I'm hitting saturation point at reading forums. Yggy seems like a solid upgrade so I think I'll stick with it. I also want a volume knob to control my monitors so I think I need something and the V281 should be back tomorrow. I already know I liked it. My main complaint is, "I don't need two amps". If I'm ditching the Mytek now I have my excuse that I need another amp.


----------



## ken6217

phase0 said:


> Thanks for the input. I'm not looking for fashion over sound. I don't want to be that guy. It was just a thought. *The Yggy seems to be pretty great, what if the Rag is too?* Would it be better to go that route (easier to change course now)? *The V281 praise is pretty* *universal except* one guy who rates it as float it down the LA river (same rating as the Mytek DAC I got). I'm hitting saturation point at reading forums. Yggy seems like a solid upgrade so I think I'll stick with it. I also want a volume knob to control my monitors so I think I need something and the V281 should be back tomorrow. I already know I liked it. My main complaint is, "I don't need two amps". If I'm ditching the Mytek now I have my excuse that I need another amp.


 
  
 Honestly, I don't  know if you will never be happy unless you stop reading the forums. If you find a piece of equipment that you like the sound of, stick with it, stop reading the other equipment threads, and call it a day. How much better could the next piece be if you keep searching anyway? Btw, you know me, I'm talking from experience.


----------



## Khragon

Sold my Rag in favor of audio-gd master 11 built-in amp. The rag sounds too muddy and one dimensional to me, bad attempt of mimicking tube using solid state. Never heard v281.


----------



## MP53

I'm using the Woo Audio WA2...one of the best when used with 5998 Tung Sol tubes and Amperex Red label 6922 drivers.
  
 Paul


----------



## ken6217

Not to make it more difficult for you.... LOL.
  
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-dac-and-ragnarok-headphoneintegrated-amplifier/


----------



## Bitten by Bug

badas said:


> Yeah. But I don't use two at a time. I don't need matched. That is why I eluded to Tony's usage.


 

 Duh!  Zoomed right over my head!  - what happens when skimming the posts.  LMAO  My bad!
  
 Cheers:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh, BTW. Finally got around to putting a GZ34 Metal into the broken-in WA6 along with some 6SN7s.  What a symphonic treat!


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Quote:


mp53 said:


> I'm using the Woo Audio WA2...one of the best when used with 5998 Tung Sol tubes and Amperex Red label 6922 drivers.
> 
> Paul


 
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi.  Enjoy your Woo!


----------



## jerick70

Welcome @MP53!  It's good to have your here! 
  
 Feel free to ask any questions, we have a wealth of knowledge to offer.


----------



## Badas

Finally got around to running 2 6BL7 tubes off the single 6080 power tube circuit on the WA22. Using the adjustable position adapter. I was hoping the adapter had enough scope to have the tubes in line. It does.
  
 Haven't listen too much yet (a few hours). Very clean, no noise and the transformers don't get hot. I did notice a big bass jump. Amazing how much bass the WA22 can throw out. I will evaluate over the next few weeks.
  
 It is a tight fit but everything does fit.


----------



## Krutsch

@Badas  ... nice photos! What's the spend on all that glass?


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Good group of photos!  Thanks for sharing your fun @Badas !!


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Which Brimar is that Badas? langrex 5Z4GY shows a darker base without text.
 quad 6BL7's look crazy.


----------



## Badas

krutsch said:


> @Badas  ... nice photos! What's the spend on all that glass?


 
  
 Geez. I don't know. I haven't kept track of that in ages. Lets say $20 for Brimar. TSRP 6C8G I purchased for $70 a set and the 6BL7's $15 a tube. So ruffly $150 + adapters.
  


bitten by bug said:


> Good group of photos!  Thanks for sharing your fun @Badas !!


 
  
 No worries.


chrisisawesome said:


> Which Brimar is that Badas? langrex 5Z4GY shows a darker base without text.
> quad 6BL7's look crazy.


 
  
 Langrex tubes. I printed my own logo label and then added to the base. I run a label print operation.


----------



## leftside

chrisisawesome said:


> quad 6BL7's look crazy.


 
 It's the way to go. I have similar photos over on the 6BL7 thread.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> It's the way to go. I have similar photos over on the 6BL7 thread.


 
  
 Yeah yours inspired me to get mine sorted. I've had the adapters for a while however I wasn't keen on it unless it looked okay (in line). So I'm glad the adapters had enough scope. I think I will customize them eventually. Turn them black.
  
 I'm fussy about looks. I believe if it looks Zen then it adds to the enjoyment. I know shoot me.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Yeah yours inspired me to get mine sorted. I've had the adapters for a while however I wasn't keen on it unless it looked okay (in line). So I'm glad the adapters had enough scope. I think I will customize them eventually. Turn them black.
> 
> I'm fussy about looks. I believe if it looks Zen then it adds to the enjoyment. I know shoot me.


 
 You like the "U look". I like the "V look". Beauty is in the eye of the beholder


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> You like the "U look". I like the "V look". Beauty is in the eye of the beholder




Yeah. That looks great as well. I've studied that pic closely. Is that the Mullard GZ34 that you are using? I bet that tube arrangement sounds real nice. 

I've been meaning to ask. With the adapters that way do the edge of the adapters go past the side body of the WA22?

I've worked out what I'm going to do with pimping up the adapters. I have some carbon fibre tape that I will run around the edge. So from the side it will be black, from above it will be clear. 

More quad power tube listening. I'm not going back to two power tubes. Just the extra bass alone is adictive enough.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Sorry if it's been asked before badas but would you still happen to have a template for that brimar logo in a document like pdf? That makes the tube look so much better than unlabeled.
  
 So much chrome leftside, i wonder what the EML would be like in there.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> Yeah. That looks great as well. I've studied that pic closely. Is that the Mullard GZ34 that you are using? I bet that tube arrangement sounds real nice.
> 
> I've been meaning to ask. With the adapters that way do the edge of the adapters go past the side body of the WA22?
> 
> ...


 
 In that picture (the "chrome look") I'm using a Valvo/Philips GZ34. The edges of the adapters don't go past the side body of the WA22. There is a screw in the middle of the adapter, so I might see if I can adjust the adapters a little more and see what they look like in other positions.
  
 Post up the pics when you've done the adapter mod. I too would like them to look the same as the rest of the amp and tubes.


----------



## leftside

chrisisawesome said:


> Sorry if it's been asked before badas but would you still happen to have a template for that brimar logo in a document like pdf? That makes the tube look so much better than unlabeled.
> 
> So much chrome leftside, i wonder what the EML would be like in there.


 
 I can try the EML if you want. I have some time tonight, so was going to roll in some other tubes. I'm currently using a Cossor and two ECC31's. These are "fat" tubes. I wanted to see if they would still fit with the 6BL7's. They do, but the fit is very tight. With the ECC31's you get a very "driving/fast" sound. Great for rock music! I'm going to try the smaller ECC33, ECC35 and B65 tonight.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

I meant the EML more in terms of eye candy with all that chrome and V taper to match, I've read quite a bit about the sound of the tube already. These pictures are making me impatient.
 Cool stuff


----------



## leftside

I see what you mean. Yes - the EML looks great, as does the Sophia Princess.


----------



## Badas

I rolled in the mighty TAK274B last night. Damn what a sound.
  

  
 Any one know about tube dampers? Quick question if I may? Does it matter where you position them? I don't think they make a sound difference. However as per the photo above they have proven to be a bit handy in keeping the wire from my driver adapters away from the power tubes.
  
 The dampers are half way down the tube. Is this okay? I believe they are suppose to be by the micas.


----------



## Badas

chrisisawesome said:


> Sorry if it's been asked before badas but would you still happen to have a template for that brimar logo in a document like pdf? That makes the tube look so much better than unlabeled.
> 
> So much chrome leftside, i wonder what the EML would be like in there.


 

  

  
  
 Here is a couple I have on file. If you need a PDF then PM me your email and I will send them to you.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> I rolled in the mighty TAK274B last night. Damn what a sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been thinking about tube dampeners and have the same question as you.


----------



## Krutsch

> Originally Posted by *Badas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Honestly, that's the first time I've heard anything about positioning dampers. They *don't* change the sound, from what I've observed, but I have some tubes that present artifacts that may be characterized as microphonics. I've experienced that *some* (not all) of these side effects are mitigated by the dampers I use. So, I keep using them...


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Post up the pics when you've done the adapter mod. I too would like them to look the same as the rest of the amp and tubes.




Here you go. Here is my attempt. I think it looks better. I just used carbon fibre looking tape.




Camera flash made them look kinda blue. They are black.


----------



## musicman59

badas said:


> I rolled in the mighty TAK274B last night. Damn what a sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Here you go:
Where is the best place on tubes to position dampers?

*A. *Although exact placement usually isn't critical, Herbie's damping instruments are usually most effective in the area approximately 1/3 of the way down from the top. Some experimentation might reveal a "sweet spot" where they sound best (many customers have reported best results with damping instruments placed even with the tube's top getter plate, some around the middle, and a few have preferred placement near the top or bottom).

 With shouldered tubes, a damping instrument can be placed either around the widest part of the "shoulder" or at the base of the "neck," where the neck meets the shoulder.

 Bulb-shaped tubes use a single damping instrument around the widest part of the tube.


----------



## Badas

musicman59 said:


> Here you go:
> Where is the best place on tubes to position dampers?
> 
> *A. *Although exact placement usually isn't critical, Herbie's damping instruments are usually most effective in the area approximately 1/3 of the way down from the top. Some experimentation might reveal a "sweet spot" where they sound best (many customers have reported best results with damping instruments placed even with the tube's top getter plate, some around the middle, and a few have preferred placement near the top or bottom).
> ...


 

 Interesting. Thanks for the info.
  
 So it seems they can go anywhere, however certain positions sound better than others.


----------



## Contrails

I have decided to sell some tubes including Metal base GZ34, http://www.head-fi.org/t/809443/various-vacuum-tubes  Need money for other projects.


----------



## Thenewguy007

krutsch said:


> Honestly, that's the first time I've heard anything about positioning dampers. They *don't* change the sound, from what I've observed, but I have some tubes that present artifacts that may be characterized as microphonics. I've experienced that *some* (not all) of these side effects are mitigated by the dampers I use. So, I keep using them...


 
  
 Where did you buy those dampers from?


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Here you go. Here is my attempt. I think it looks better. I just used carbon fibre looking tape.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very cool... I like the look of the carbon fibre tape around the socket savers.


----------



## Krutsch

thenewguy007 said:


> Where did you buy those dampers from?


 

 Maple shade dot com.


----------



## Contrails

I am selling this GZ34 Metal base.  PM me if you are interested.


----------



## Shini44

anyone selling the new elrog 300b pairs? (may and up was it?) usatube will have a new patch in 2-3 weeks -.-''


----------



## Porteroso

porteroso said:


> bitten by bug said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys thought I should share a new contender for first place best low priced rectifier!  Just ordered a backup set at US$10 for a NOS pair.  The NU 5W4GT I have been listening to for the past 2 hours in the 6SE is exceptional.  My research showed it should work in the WA6/6SE and Jack confirmed.  This tube is giving me a taste of some of the Magic I enjoy in music!
> ...


 
 Just now got the tubes, and thought I'd chime in on them. At 7.50 per rectifier, especially for matched pairs of rectifiers, I think they are very worth it. It really shows me how important the driver/power tubes are in the WA6, because I miss very little of the U52. I think the U52 has a liquid quality that not much else can touch, but with this NU 5W4GT has a great range of production, retrieves detail nicely, has good everything. And this is in the first 10 minutes of playing the tube for the first time.
  
 Once I get maybe 50 hours on it, I will do a comparison with the Brimar, of which I have several. My thought right now is that this tube will be more flat sounding, not in a bad way, just not as tubey as the Brimar. The Brimar will probably beat it on dynamics, but it's detail retrieval, across the full range, that will be an interesting comparison. I'm going to go ahead and get in another 2 pairs right as I post this. For anyone who needs a backup rectifier, I think these are an absolute steal. Especially WA5 owners, assuming it works in the WA5. I don't know. From Bitten's comments, actually maybe it is not compatible. But so far so good on the WA6.


----------



## Shini44

i don't mind buying the current Elrog 300b, if anyone want to sell him pair them PM please 
  
  
  
 oh just bough Mullard GZ34 Metal Base matched pair <3 500$ is a good price for a used matched pair  the seller got good feedback as well, asked some users about him.


----------



## Shini44

isquirrel said:


> Damn! One of my Elrog's died this morning. It seems to always be around the 400 hour mark. I was very careful with the bases on insertion as I know they are a weak point. I thought I would share this information as they are a good 300B, they are having teething issues though. I suppose being a new manufacturer with an unconventional design was always going to present challenges!
> 
> The info I have from the Australian distributor is this quote:
> 
> ...


 
 so "vinylsavor.blogspot.com/" got the one with the new base that won't fail on the WA5-LE ??? or? they got elrog pair for a good price.


----------



## ymc226

Questions on 6C8G on WA5-LE:
  
 Since it was hard to locate "matched" pairs, I bought singles on Ebay that tested "NOS" equivalent.  The National Union pair worked well.  Of the 2 RCA tubes, there was crackling heard that wouldn't resolve on the right headphone earpiece.  Does this mean the right tube (when looking on at the amp from the front) is suspect?  
  
 In regards to the WA5-LE and the 6C8G, I'm using the Woo Audio adapters.  I find that the gain needs to be turned up completely to max and even then the volume is still on the low side.  Is this normal?


----------



## leftside

What happened when you swapped the two RCA tubes? Still crackling in the right headphone or did it move to the left headphone?
  
 I haven't noticed any difference in gain with the 6C8G's on the WA22. They are a bit temperamental though...


----------



## Bitten by Bug

porteroso said:


> Just now got the tubes, and thought I'd chime in on them. At 7.50 per rectifier, especially for matched pairs of rectifiers, I think they are very worth it. It really shows me how important the driver/power tubes are in the WA6, because I miss very little of the U52. I think the U52 has a liquid quality that not much else can touch, but with this NU 5W4GT has a great range of production, retrieves detail nicely, has good everything. And this is in the first 10 minutes of playing the tube for the first time.
> 
> Once I get maybe 50 hours on it, I will do a comparison with the Brimar, of which I have several. My thought right now is that this tube will be more flat sounding, not in a bad way, just not as tubey as the Brimar. The Brimar will probably beat it on dynamics, but it's detail retrieval, across the full range, that will be an interesting comparison. I'm going to go ahead and get in another 2 pairs right as I post this. For anyone who needs a backup rectifier, I think these are an absolute steal. Especially WA5 owners, assuming it works in the WA5. I don't know. From Bitten's comments, actually maybe it is not compatible. But so far so good on the WA6.


 
 Smiles with your reaction.  Listen for a few minutes and order more, ha ha!  I did the same thing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Concur with importance of power/driver and hope hear the U52 at some point!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have been popping in more of 5W4GTs from other manufacturers and all are coming across solid with just a few minutes each.  The Tung-Sol metal base is the exception due to it sounding good enough to merit some actual time and at 3 hours tops the NU with 50 hours.
  
 The GTs sound good enough that some all metal 5W4s are now in house. Will try to give them a listen soon.  Hope they are as enjoyable as the all metal 5Z4s
 .
 Looking forward to your Brimar comparison down the road.
  
 Good point @Porteroso.  My inquiry to Jack was specific IRO WA6/6SE so agreed, it will  be prudent to check the tubes specs or with Jack/Mike if you have other equipment.
  
  
 Edit: pesky typo


----------



## jhljhl

ymc226 said:


> Questions on 6C8G on WA5-LE:
> 
> Since it was hard to locate "matched" pairs, I bought singles on Ebay that tested "NOS" equivalent.  The National Union pair worked well.  Of the 2 RCA tubes, there was crackling heard that wouldn't resolve on the right headphone earpiece.  Does this mean the right tube (when looking on at the amp from the front) is suspect?
> 
> In regards to the WA5-LE and the 6C8G, I'm using the Woo Audio adapters.  I find that the gain needs to be turned up completely to max and even then the volume is still on the low side.  Is this normal?


 

 You should have slightly higher gain ime.


----------



## Badas

ymc226 said:


> Questions on 6C8G on WA5-LE:
> 
> Since it was hard to locate "matched" pairs, I bought singles on Ebay that tested "NOS" equivalent.  The National Union pair worked well.  Of the 2 RCA tubes, there was crackling heard that wouldn't resolve on the right headphone earpiece.  Does this mean the right tube (when looking on at the amp from the front) is suspect?
> 
> *In regards to the WA5-LE and the 6C8G, I'm using the Woo Audio adapters.  I find that the gain needs to be turned up completely to max and even then the volume is still on the low side.  Is this normal?*


 
  
 No that is not normal. However I've heard that happens on some WA5 models (not all). There is some very weird circuits on some Woo amps.
  
 6C8G should have greater gain than 6F8G or 6SN7. On most Woo amps it does (including my WA22). On some WA5's it is less.
  
 Also C3G on WA5 works. On the WA234 it is very quiet. Unless you get a new adapter developed by Woo.
  
 Some very strange designs. On just about all other amps these tubes just plug in with the right adapters and work.


----------



## musicman59

badas said:


> No that is not normal. However I've heard that happens on some WA5 models (not all). There is some very weird circuits on some Woo amps.
> 
> 6C8G should have greater gain than 6F8G or 6SN7. On most Woo amps it does (including my WA22). On some WA5's it is less.
> 
> ...


 
 You are right. In my WA5-LE the 6C8G had significant less gain than the 6F8G and 6SN7.
 The C3G with Woo adapters work fine in regards to the gain BUT I loose bass response with them. The sound very clean and beautiful a at the midrange and highs but at the cost of the low frequency.


----------



## Shini44

He6 wise i keep the impedance low or high??


----------



## Badas

shini44 said:


> He6 wise i keep the impedance low or high??


 

 Dude. HE6. High impedance. You need all the power you can get.


----------



## Shini44

thanks   right now using stock tubes + mullard gz34 (black base)
  
 will report back sometime later, my metal base gz34 is still on the way. and will try my brimar 5Z4GY  later on Saturday or Sunday.


----------



## artemart

porteroso said:


> Just now got the tubes, and thought I'd chime in on them. At 7.50 per rectifier, especially for matched pairs of rectifiers, I think they are very worth it. It really shows me how important the driver/power tubes are in the WA6, because I miss very little of the U52. I think the U52 has a liquid quality that not much else can touch, but with this NU 5W4GT has a great range of production, retrieves detail nicely, has good everything. And this is in the first 10 minutes of playing the tube for the first time.
> 
> Once I get maybe 50 hours on it, I will do a comparison with the Brimar, of which I have several. My thought right now is that this tube will be more flat sounding, not in a bad way, just not as tubey as the Brimar. The Brimar will probably beat it on dynamics, but it's detail retrieval, across the full range, that will be an interesting comparison. I'm going to go ahead and get in another 2 pairs right as I post this. For anyone who needs a backup rectifier, I think these are an absolute steal. Especially WA5 owners, assuming it works in the WA5. I don't know. From Bitten's comments, actually maybe it is not compatible. But so far so good on the WA6.


 
 I have email woo audio about this rectifier with a link to ebay listing and below is his response. 
  
     "Hi Art,  
  Yes, 5W4 can be used on the WA5-LE directly.
  
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html

  
Jack"


----------



## Bitten by Bug

So nice to see that Jack has updated the list after my inquiry and then followed by yours.  I do enjoy these tubes in both the WA6 and the WA6SE....


----------



## Kiet Teoh

ecc31 doesn't need any adapter to wa22? is that true? i'm using mine with adapter......


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

No adapter needed
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


----------



## artemart

I am currently in the market for 300B match tubes and would like to ask fellow WA5 and WA5-LE owners for their top five/ten list of 300B tubes they own/tested.


----------



## MIKELAP

kiet teoh said:


> ecc31 doesn't need any adapter to wa22? is that true? i'm using mine with adapter......


 
 I am also using adapters with the ECC31 hmmm.... something fishy about this


----------



## MIKELAP

I found this email reply from Woo stating that the ecc31 is used with adapters maybe they made a mistake i know the ECC32 is plug&play


----------



## leftside

I also use my ECC31's with adapter.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

That's strange, I got that compatibility chart from their website http://www.wooaudio.com/faq/#23. I know that they update it somewhat frequently since I've seen it change a few times.


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> I am currently in the market for 300B match tubes and would like to ask fellow WA5 and WA5-LE owners for their top five/ten list of 300B tubes they own/tested.


 
  
 From what I've read (not heard them) the best are Takatsuki and Elrog. Then the EML are the best of the rest. I went for the EML 300B. I'm happy with them and they were a nice bump up from stock for a lot cheaper than going with the Taks.


----------



## reeltime

artemart said:


> I am currently in the market for 300B match tubes and would like to ask fellow WA5 and WA5-LE owners for their top five/ten list of 300B tubes they own/tested.


 
  
 To My Ears:

 1) Elrog*
 2) Takatsuki
 3) EML 300B 
 4) PSVane
 5) Shu-Guang
  
 Not Tested: Western Electric 300B, Sophia Electric Royal Princess
  
 *Elrogs have, to date, had a high failure rate.  I would not recommend the Elrog until there is a liberal amount of field testing on the redesigned tube.  But they sure sound and look great.


----------



## artemart

reeltime said:


> To My Ears:
> 
> 1) Elrog*
> 2) Takatsuki
> ...


 
 When you say PSVane what tube you have tried?
  
 Also did any one hear a difference between PSVane WE300B replica vs Shu-Guang WE300B replica. It seems that there good $200 difference in price and they are both made at same factory.


----------



## Shini44

reeltime said:


> To My Ears:
> 
> 1) Elrog*
> 2) Takatsuki
> ...


 
 no one tested the new Elrog though  i might try it, i don't think i will be able to pass 400 hours in a month or two so i will be fine with buying taka300b later on as a back-up.


----------



## reeltime

artemart said:


> When you say PSVane what tube you have tried?


 
  
 PSVane's standard 300B.  I tested neither the Treasure 2 nor the WE Replica.
  


shini44 said:


> no one tested the new Elrog though  i might try it, i don't think i will be able to pass 400 hours in a month or two so i will be fine with buying taka300b later on as a back-up.


 

 Go ahead!  I can't swing $1000 bucks every few months on something that has been prone to failure.  Fool me once...
  
 You can be the first in the water!


----------



## jhljhl

Sylvania 6sn7w and wa5le- lots of bass and gain with HEK - surprised in the boost bass and gain "wall of sound" compared to the mullard ecc35 which gives a more subtle SET presentation. It is a full coloured midrange sound nonfatiguing somewhat lush and romantic/euphonic very in keeping with the wa5/le and woo house sound.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

My very first vacuum tube, It really is beautiful in person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 
  

  
 Woo still on the way along with CBS Hytron 6sn7's and RCA 6as7g's. From what I've read all 3 should match up quite nicely although I'm a little worried about transparency.
 Very fast shipping by Langrex.


----------



## Badas

Brimar is a stunning looking tube. Amazing construction. It is what caught my interest originally. 

I like the looks more when you put a couple hundred hours on them. The top chromes and the whole tube tints. Looks mean.





I must roll this bad boy back in. It competes with the TAK274B really well. Brimar gets scary close.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

@Badas - Thanks for sharing the pix.  That valve is really dark!   Wow!  .
  
 Oh, and because I believe in fairness, Langrex set a new record!  I received my latest order today in 8 days!  Getting better!
  


chrisisawesome said:


> My very first vacuum tube, It really is beautiful in person
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats on your first tube!  Enjoy!


----------



## artemart

Hey guys I finally got my 6F8G to 6SN7 connectors from woo audio. It only took 32 days...
  
 After looking at them i feel a bit uncomfortable using them because the wire that goes to the top of the 6F8G tube is shorter then what I have seen with other people woo audio 6F8G to 6SN7 (Picture below). I would like to know is it acceptable for the wire to touch the glass?


----------



## joseph69

artemart said:


> Hey guys I finally got my 6F8G to 6SN7 connectors from woo audio. It only took 32 days...
> 
> After looking at them i feel a bit uncomfortable using them because the wire that goes to the top of the 6F8G tube is shorter then what I have seen with other people woo audio 6F8G to 6SN7 (Picture below). I would like to know is it acceptable for the wire to touch the glass?


 
 Should have had @2359glenn make them.


----------



## artemart

So is it OK that the wire is touching the tube?


----------



## joseph69

artemart said:


> So is it OK that the wire is touching the tube?


 
 Depends how hot the tubes get?
 I've never touched my 6F8G's to know how hot they get…but I also have Glenns adapters with plenty of slack in them so they are nowhere near the tubes.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

My 6F8Gs seem to be the coolest running tubes in the WA6 of all the power/drivers. As far as the wire intersecting with the glass and if it is safe please consider that lots of folks add heat sinks and tube dampeners right against the glass when you are making your decision.


----------



## artemart

I just keep close eye on it to make sure it will not melt and on Monday I will put a new wire that will not touch the glass.


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> Hey guys I finally got my 6F8G to 6SN7 connectors from woo audio. It only took 32 days...
> 
> After looking at them i feel a bit uncomfortable using them because the wire that goes to the top of the 6F8G tube is shorter then what I have seen with other people woo audio 6F8G to 6SN7 (Picture below). I would like to know is it acceptable for the wire to touch the glass?


 
  
 Mine are similar. I have more slack on the left one and my right hand one is similar to your pic in that it doesn't touch but it's closer than I'd like. So far I haven't run into any problems with it. I suppose it might bake with time and have issues down the line if it's too close. I'm also usually not running the amp for more than 3-4 hours at a time.


----------



## leftside

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but as it ends up with a glowing review of the WA22 I'll put it here. I brought the WA22 into the downstairs room this morning to give it a proper comparison against the Allnic HPA-3000. I was also comparing the 6BL7 tubes against other tubes. The short story is that with the 6BL7 tubes the bass is very, very good with the WA22. I was listening to music from electronic to blues and the bass was consistently good. Bass guitars, synths, techno  beats and drums were hitting all the right spots. Very smooth and lush. The HPA-3000 is very good, but doesn't sound as smooth as the WA22 in this regard. 
  
 WA22 config: Matching quad GE 1963 6BL7, Osram B65, Western 274A.  
  
 I've also rolled in much cheaper tubes than the B65 and 274A, and they still sound good with the 6BL7's.
  
 Pic to show the "comparison room" (Woo on the far right).


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but as it ends up with a glowing review of the WA22 I'll put it here. I brought the WA22 into the downstairs room this morning to give it a proper comparison against the Allnic HPA-3000. I was also comparing the 6BL7 tubes against other tubes. The short story is that with the 6BL7 tubes the bass is very, very good with the WA22. I was listening to music from electronic to blues and the bass was consistently good. Bass guitars, synths, techno  beats and drums were hitting all the right spots. Very smooth and lush. The HPA-3000 is very good, but doesn't sound as smooth as the WA22 in this regard.
> 
> WA22 config: Matching quad GE 1963 6BL7, Osram B65, Western 274A.
> 
> ...




Geez. Nice McIntosh gear. I also spot a Marantz AVR or preamp and bloody nice speakers. Not sure what the speakers are but they look the bomb. Congrats that setup would be top level. 

I'm also noticing speed on 6BL7 tubes. I've been wondering what the X factor was on these tubes. You can get power tubes with very nice sound signatures but they seem to be lacking in something that the 6BL7's do. I now think that something is speed. I'm getting solid state speed from my WA22 with bass impact and warm mellow tone. Everything. It sounds great on everything as well.

I'm using a mix of 6BL7 tubes in each socket. One cheap side getter RCA and one Sylvania in each socket. Mixing the sound. Then Tung-Sol round plate 6C8G and either the TAK274B or Brimar 5Z4GY. Brimar this morning.


----------



## leftside

Marantz pre-processor/preamp (for movies). Obviously I'd like a Mac pre-processor, but I can't justify the extra price simply to watch movies with. I'm quite content with Dolby DTS, so perhaps when the price comes down a bit more in a few years I'll get one then. B&W 804S speakers. The two Mac amps on the left are almost as old as me , but my local techs have done some nice work on them. The only thing that I purchased new is the D100 DAC.
  
 I think I know what you mean about the "speed" of the sound. I also listened with some really fast music, and to my ears the WA22 certainly kept up and played everything as it should. I did quick comparisons against the main amps and speakers.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Woo Hoo!  What a pretty looking setup @leftside!


----------



## ken6217

phase0 said:


> From what I've read (not heard them) the best are Takatsuki and Elrog. Then the EML are the best of the rest. I went for the EML 300B. I'm happy with them and they were a nice bump up from stock for a lot cheaper than going with the Taks.


 

 I thought the Sophia Royal Princess were light years better than the EML 300B solid plates.


----------



## Shini44

btw guys about the taka300b/tak247 set, on the wa5-le would you describe the sound sig as laid back? forward? neither this or that?


----------



## Clayton SF

badas said:


> Brimar is a stunning looking tube. Amazing construction. It is what caught my interest originally.
> 
> I like the looks more when you put a couple hundred hours on them. The top chromes and the whole tube tints. Looks mean.
> 
> I must roll this bad boy back in. It competes with the TAK274B really well. Brimar gets scary close.


 
  
 I really like this tube, too.
 It is in four of my amps—Woo and non-Woo.


----------



## jhljhl

I remember when I had the wa22 I liked it but wondered what it would sound like modded for a little more power and dynamics. I think seamaster modded one to that extent. I don't think a premium parts upgrade was ever offered.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

clayton sf said:


> I really like this tube, too.
> It is in four of my amps—Woo and non-Woo.


 

 Nice picture!


----------



## leftside

jhljhl said:


> I remember when I had the wa22 I liked it but wondered what it would sound like modded for a little more power and dynamics. I think seamaster modded one to that extent. I don't think a premium parts upgrade was ever offered.


 
 Just add 4 6BL7's.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Just add 4 6BL7's.




I concur.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> Just add 4 6BL7's.


 

 I was wondering about those tubes too.  I like the unique wa22 sound sig but I was wondering because I think that one that was boosted would rival the wa5 etc. but I guess canabalize their product line.


----------



## leftside

I'd love to compare my pimped out WA22 to a pimped out WA5. My local store has the WA22 but not the WA5.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I'd love to compare my pimped out WA22 to a pimped out WA5. My local store has the WA22 but not the WA5.


 

 Rest assured. There is not a lot in it. I've listened to Tony's pimped out WA5 many a time. My WA22 with the Quad 6BL7's is now within a hair of how that sounds.
  
 Pimped WA5 sounds a little bit leaner with just slightly more treble detail. Pimped out WA22 sounds warmer.
  
 WA22 didn't really get close until the 6BL7 tubes. WA5 always had that 300B power tube advantage. Not anymore.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Rest assured. There is not a lot in it. I've listened to Tony's pimped out WA5 many a time. My WA22 with the Quad 6BL7's is now within a hair of how that sounds.
> 
> Pimped WA5 sounds a little bit leaner with just slightly more treble detail. Pimped out WA22 sounds warmer.
> 
> WA22 didn't really get close until the 6BL7 tubes. WA5 always had that 300B power tube advantage. Not anymore.


 

 I think the wa2, wa22 or wa5 are all _enjoyable_ even though of course people can certainly say one is more "technically" whatever than another.
 I never used the 6sl7 with the wa22 but I really liked the lushness of the midrange but wanted a little more 3d in the x,y,z axis- the wa5 does that but without the wa22 lush midrange but a lush midrange sound sig unique to the wa5.
 I was thinking you could probably do that to the wa22 with customization or an upgrade package etc but I don't think woo audio ever offered it because it would take sales away from the wa5 v.1 but now that the wa5 v.2 price has increased so dramatically ($6000) it might be a good move for them to offer one now.


----------



## jhljhl

6sn7 recommendations: if you want a neutral but bright sounding 6sn7 in the wa5 - the raytheon vt-231 provides that neutral/bright transparent sound whereas the sylvania 6sn7w short bottle leans toward mid-rich warmth and holographic.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Why won't these light bulbs fit into the ceiling? i want surround sound.
   


 Is Isopropyl alcohol good for cleaning tube pins or do you recommend paying a premium for DeoxIT. Also do you use anything to lubricate the pins like a very small amount of oil.
 I assume this is the stuff? http://www.jaycar.com.au/Service-Aids/Chemical-Aids/Other-Chemical-Aids/DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner-%26-Rejuvenator---Solution-Kit/p/NS1436


----------



## leftside

I use a little Deoxit. Doesn't hurt to also apply IPA afterwards to evaporate/remove any residue. I also apply Deoxit gold as a final step. Not everyone does this and it might not be necessary, but do find the tube inserts into the socket more easily.
  
 The kit you linked to is the one I use (Deoxit + Deoxit gold)


----------



## MIKELAP

chrisisawesome said:


> Why won't these light bulbs fit into the ceiling? i want surround sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I use fine grit sandpaper cheap an effective


----------



## Shini44

Just got my Mullard GZ34 Metal Base matched pair 
  
 time to order the new Elrog 300b and see if it won't fail after 400 hours


----------



## 3083joe

shini44 said:


> Just got my Mullard GZ34 Metal Base matched pair
> 
> time to order the new Elrog 300b and see if it won't fail after 400 hours



Very nice


----------



## jerick70

3083joe said:


> Very nice


 
  
 Agreed... they look very tantalizing.


----------



## jhljhl

shini44 said:


> Just got my Mullard GZ34 Metal Base matched pair
> 
> time to order the new Elrog 300b and see if it won't fail after 400 hours


 

 Metal gz34 are very nice with the wa5. I would be interested to hear your opinion on the elrogs. What 300b and 6sn7 do you like currently?


----------



## Shini44

jhljhl said:


> Metal gz34 are very nice with the wa5. I would be interested to hear your opinion on the elrogs. What 300b and 6sn7 do you like currently?


 
 nothing but stock tubes so far and brimar 5gzy, i saw your 6sn7 recommendations, definitely will check these out, i will pair them with the gz34MB/elrog and Tak300/ta-247 but that will take time due the price of the taka set alone.
  
 so far i tried brimar 5gzy with the stock tube, nice bass and mids, sound fuller but no treble and dynamics, but its different and nice, compared to the usual tube amps it wasn't lacking in dynamics, i tested it for one session though
  
 for the metal base and stock tubes so far i had on session, but i am very surprised at the female vocals, they sound nice, liquid mids with a sound that make me feel like less going to swap the tubes for mellow/lush sound. the bass is controlled and fast but not as punchy, still i need time and more sessions, i guess its just my brain adjusting to the sound, i noticed they got slightly less sparkle in the treble compared to the black gz34 black base, but it wasn't a big deal as the metal base had higher quality treble.
  
  
 i hope that the elrog 300b won't change the liquidity of the mids/vocals. and dang the sound is already good, but i assume the elrog will make the sound as fun as SS amps with adding the nice mids and sweetness of a tube thanks to the metal base.


----------



## Vigrith

leftside said:


> Pic to show the "comparison room" (Woo on the far right).


 
  
 Wow, that looks incredible. All that Mac gear is drool-inducing to say the least!
  
 PS: Recently purchased a WA7, nothing but good things to say about Woo Audio's magic - been looking to get one of their amps for the longest time, not the easiest thing to come across when you reside in Europe.


----------



## jhljhl

shini44 said:


> nothing but stock tubes so far and brimar 5gzy, i saw your 6sn7 recommendations, definitely will check these out, i will pair them with the gz34MB/elrog and Tak300/ta-247 but that will take time due the price of the taka set alone.
> 
> so far i tried brimar 5gzy with the stock tube, nice bass and mids, sound fuller but no treble and dynamics, but its different and nice, compared to the usual tube amps it wasn't lacking in dynamics, i tested it for one session though
> 
> ...


 

 I'd say the same about the metal as having less treble sparkle but more quality than the black base too but the mids being nicer- the black base sounds more solid state-ish to me and a slightly smaller sound stage to me. When you get the elrog/tak you'll have the best glass there is now.


----------



## jhljhl

ECC32/cv181: I had to remove my socket savers for them to fit with more room. I noticed I can barely get 8 o'clock on the high gain and just get to 9 on the low gain setting with hd800. I wonder if removing the tubemonger socket savers have led to this increase in volume not sure because I've used them for so long... but anyway these tubes are really impressive. I can see why they are so popular. I think what makes them so unique is how _balanced_ and expansive they sound throughout the spectrum even with a warmish midrange.  IIRC the ecc35 sound very similar but aren't as warm.  The sylvania 6sn7w are warm and expansive and sound really nice but I guess you could say are less "controled" maybe because they lack this kind of evenness throughout the spectrum(?) Anyway, all of these I would put in my top list of 6sn7s.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

wow, Lieven's review is very tempting (CDM owner myself)...

 http://www.headfonia.com/review-woo-audio-wa8-eclipse-new-transportable-king
  
 What do you think?


----------



## Ultrainferno

waynewoondirts said:


> wow, Lieven's review is very tempting (CDM owner myself)...
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/review-woo-audio-wa8-eclipse-new-transportable-king
> 
> What do you think?


 
  
 Thanks. I've been out all day but if someone has a question, shoot! (or pm)


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

A niche market indeed. Still appreciate reviews. 
  
 But for me the grey area between dap's and mains powered amplifiers is too small especially considering the lack of advancement in battery technology. 
 I'm only ever concerned with top quality audio when at home in a familiar and comfortable environment, when i can really relax and properly enjoy the minor details in sound. 
 When away from home i can settle for less.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Woo Audio is proud to launch the NEW Focal Utopia headphones with The Source AV Group @TSAVJason. Experience this system this Saturday. Space is limited. RSVP without delay.


----------



## Badas

^
 Not a bad looking HP. I like the looks of the design.
  
 Edit: $4K 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Instantly not interested now.


----------



## Contrails

> $4K
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Badas, I don't know who's is on the top of the list of 'taking the piss' these days.  Real estate or headphones.


----------



## Contrails

Anyone interested in a GZ34 Metal base tube? $300 USD with shipping included to anywhere.  *Doesn't include paypal fees.  I need the moolah to fund my other hobbies, hehe.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Badas, I don't know who's is on the top of the list of 'taking the piss' these days.  Real estate or headphones.


 

 This hobby is just going stupid. $4K for HP's and there is many to choose from. Dumb stuff.
  
 I might just go back to speakers. Crikey I have a sound proofed room. I don't need to be quiet.


----------



## koiloco

badas said:


> This hobby is just going stupid. $4K for HP's and there is many to choose from. Dumb stuff.
> 
> I might just go back to speakers. Crikey I have a sound proofed room. I don't need to be quiet.


 
 +1.  Well said.


----------



## Shini44

badas said:


> This hobby is just going stupid. $4K for HP's and there is many to choose from. Dumb stuff.
> 
> I might just go back to speakers. Crikey I have a sound proofed room. I don't need to be quiet.


 
 HE-6 sound like the best if you ask me
  
 and from what i saw the best collection always have TH900, HD800 and HE-6.  
  
 best dac i saw so far is Hugo TT, best tube amp is WA5-LE (other options are over priced) 
  
 no one can't be happy with the set from above   maybe throw in Lau into the mix for some SS amp  
  
 4k headphone doesn't mean the best, lol nor mean we have to get or try it, i feel its there cause of business and not for value or maybe not for us to be exact.


----------



## Vigrith

badas said:


> This hobby is just going stupid. $4K for HP's and there is many to choose from. Dumb stuff.
> 
> I might just go back to speakers. Crikey I have a sound proofed room. I don't need to be quiet.


 
  
 Quote:


shini44 said:


> HE-6 sound like the best if you ask me
> 
> and from what i saw the best collection always have TH900, HD800 and HE-6.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Dave is basically three times the price of the desktop Hugo. Is it three times better than the TT? I guess that's debatable, personal and highly subjective.
  
 There are crazy prices in everything, I don't see why headphones should be the exception. Given my personal preferences I'd just as "easily" pay 4k for headphones as I would for speakers - the Abyss cost 5k (world's most expensive headphones afaik?), Focal's insane Grande Utopia retails for like 200k, Devialet makes/sells several systems that go for 100k+. I'm guessing there's more expensive stuff out there too somewhere in the speaker world.
  
 You could buy 40 pairs of Abyss headphones for the price of the Grande Utopia. What I'm trying to get at here is that there's potential excessiveness everywhere you look, just depends what each one of us considers excessive, "dumb" or "stupid".
  
 I should also add I personally cannot and even if I could I most definitely would not spend 4k on a single pair of headphones (unless I was loaded to the point it was but pocket change), I do however understand and respect the fact some people can and will. Not everyone can afford a Bentley.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

In my personal opinion, $4K is a bargain if it sounds anything like their Utopia speakers. With headphones, there's no room acoustic to mess with. You get the BEST sound no matter which room you're listening in.


----------



## Vigrith

hifiguy528 said:


> In my personal opinion, $4K is a bargain if it sounds anything like their Utopia speakers. With headphones, there's no room acoustic to mess with. You get the BEST sound no matter which room you're listening in.


 
  
 Absolutely, I didn't want to delve too far off-topic given this is your thread but part of my reasoning for almost always preferring headphones over speaker systems is that room acoustics are a tricky thing. Having auditioned the Grande Utopia I will also agree that 4 Gs for the phones will be basically the same as giving them out for free if they sound anywhere near as good as the speakers do.
  
 Again, this is obviously relative and directly correlated to how much money you are able to spend et al. but if I'd ever have the chance to spend that amount of money on headphones I know which ones I'd choose (again, assuming they sound akin to their Utopia speakers).


----------



## Shini44

vigrith said:


> Dave is basically three times the price of the desktop Hugo. Is it three times better than the TT? I guess that's debatable, personal and highly subjective.
> 
> There are crazy prices in everything, I don't see why headphones should be the exception. Given my personal preferences I'd just as "easily" pay 4k for headphones as I would for speakers - the Abyss cost 5k (world's most expensive headphones afaik?), Focal's insane Grande Utopia retails for like 200k, Devialet makes/sells several systems that go for 100k+. I'm guessing there's more expensive stuff out there too somewhere in the speaker world.
> 
> ...


 
 i agree with you big time, Dave is more expensive and don't hold much value, the reason why i went with Hugo TT is because the Hugo as a DAC gave me the exact sound i was looking for into a DAC which mean its was a need not a want, yet Hugo portable as desktop rig had problems when compared with desktop dac so i had to buy it and i am glad i did because i did eliminate the problems and gain a sound sig i was looking for.
  
 what i am trying to say as long as the rig provide something we are looking for and somehow not over priced crazily then its worth it, at least as a head-fier
  
 for example the WA5-LE is expensive when you count it the tube upgrades, yet it was able to give me options , and very specific sound sigs that i been trying to get for at least four years of testing and searching.
  
 so preference and the need can justify the price sometimes.   anyway 4k headphones? if it will give me exactly what i like and will do it better than the other headphones and by a good margin (noticeable) then maybe i will go for it. specially if lets say i already gathered all my rig from the wish list.


----------



## Badas

hifiguy528 said:


> In my personal opinion, $4K is a bargain if it sounds anything like their Utopia speakers. With headphones, there's no room acoustic to mess with. You get the BEST sound no matter which room you're listening in.


 

 How can a $4K HP be a bargain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is so new and great about this HP to justify $4K???
  
 Lets see. I'm guessing it is a dynamic driver? Nope nothing new there. Oh! it has a carbon fiber plastic look to it. Nope nothing new there. Or maybe it is just the sound as you say. Well nothing new there as well. Many manufacturers have been making great sounding HP's for years.
  
 Prices should be going down not up.
  
 The whole HP market has lost reality with itself. There is hardly any new technology that justifies these prices. They are purely made up. HP's themselves still use the same tech (just plug into a amp). Sorry to say but amps are just the same as well. Just SS or tubes. No rocket science there. Cables are the same. The only area that is improving and could possibly justify development costs is DAC's and they are already crazy prices.
  
 Problem is the majority of us are useless sheep and just except these prices. I'm not excepting the $4K HP market. I hope others like me just vote with our wallets and let the $4K HP market suffer poor sale results.


----------



## leftside

@Badas 99% of the population would say we are crazy for spending the money we have on our tubes, DAC's, amps, etc. My friend asked me how much the Woo was, and his jaw hit the floor when I told him. Even though a set of $4k headphones are not for me, they are not that much of a leap in price from our existing components. The "top of the line" DAP's, DAC's, tubes, headphones all seem to be going up in price.


----------



## Vigrith

I won't address all of your points because I don't want to derail the thread much further as previously said but... Yea, headphone prices are going up but does that mean sound itself isn't improving just because the same techniques and driver types are being used?
  
 If you watch Jude's video where he speaks to Mr. Debard from Focal about their headphones you will also notice that some of the stuff they are using is actually new, for example they're the first headphones that don't use formers for their coils - I won't pretend to know whether or not this improves their sonic performance by a super significant amount but it's still relevant to the argument given you just stated there's nothing new about them and their dynamic drivers. There are other certain (claimed) innovations that could potentially affect the sound and/or how it is reproduced in these headphones too.
  
 Focal are ultra competent and extremely dedicated to what they do, if you listen to their speakers you'll understand. I'm not advocating selling/buying 4k headphones, as said I cannot afford them and even if I could somehow stretch my budget I most likely would not prioritize buying them over other things but it's a status item. You don't buy a million dollar Veyron to drive 250mph on the freeway, you buy it because you like the way it looks and because owning one makes you feel good. Even if in reality its performance is not going to be enjoyed to its fullest (eg. can't drive it over 120-140km/h here, yet I've seen multiple Bugatti driving around either way) or outdo cheaper alternatives, some people will want it and there will be a market for them because of those people.
  
 I'm not saying we should conform and allow the headphone market to blow up completely out of performance but right now I'd say the $4k bracket is not exactly oversaturated - Abyss, LCD-4, SR009s and now the Focal? Is it a little worrying those are all fairly recent releases? Yea, but I won't lose sleep over it personally. If people want to pay for their perceived best let them pay for the best.
  
 I find the pricing of other things in other sectors to be a lot more offensive than headphones nearing 5 thousand dollars. There are millions being thrown around like they're nothing elsewhere. I'll just figure out a way to dish out a grand for the Elear and be happy with my purchase - just because Joe next door paid 4 for the Utopia won't belittle my sense of accomplishment and take away from the joy I get from things I own.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> @Badas 99% of the population would say we are crazy for spending the money we have on our tubes, DAC's, amps, etc. My friend asked me how much the Woo was, and his jaw hit the floor when I told him. Even though a set of $4k headphones are not for me, they are not that much of a leap in price from our existing components. The "top of the line" DAP's, DAC's, tubes, headphones all seem to be going up in price.


 

 I just look at a plastic looking HP with dynamic drivers and a wire from them and think no way are the worth $4K. That is just taking the piss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 They don't look much different to Shure HP's.


----------



## Badas

vigrith said:


> I'm not saying we should conform and allow the headphone market to blow up completely out of performance but right now I'd say the $4k bracket is not exactly oversaturated - *Abyss, LCD-4, SR009s and now the Focal?* Is it a little worrying those are all fairly recent releases? Yea, but I won't lose sleep over it personally. If people want to pay for their perceived best let them pay for the best.


 
  
 Ya forgot HiFiMan @ $3K. I suppose they are a bargain.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> ...
> 
> Problem is the majority of us are useless sheep and just except these prices. I'm not excepting the $4K HP market. I hope others like me just vote with our wallets and let the $4K HP market suffer poor sale results.


 
  
 Amen, brother. I suppose I'm missing out on something very special, but it's not the music.
  
 Listening right now to a 1971 original issue vinyl pressing of Pink Floyd's "Meddle" on Senn HD-650s with a 30 year-old turntable and a Woo WA3.
  
 I've never heard this album sound so moving...


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Its a luxury item for people to indulge in.
 If they're willing and capable of spending that amount of money on something even if its not practical then good for them.
  
 The same reason $4000 power cables exist... which are void of logic. The same reason people who drive like absolute losers still buy expensive and powerful Mercedes and bmw's. It's good to see some common sense.
  
 That being said, my indulgence arrived today!
  

 Wasn't impressed by stock tubes although i didn't burn them in at all.

 Night and day difference with different tubes. Very happy


----------



## Badas

chrisisawesome said:


> Its a luxury item for people to indulge in.
> If they're willing and capable of spending that amount of money on something even if its not practical then good for them.
> 
> The same reason $4000 power cables exist... which are void of logic. The same reason people who drive like absolute losers still buy expensive and powerful Mercedes and bmw's. It's good to see some common sense.
> ...


 

 Congrats. Silver Woo looks nice.


----------



## phase0

hifiguy528 said:


> In my personal opinion, $4K is a bargain if it sounds anything like their Utopia speakers. With headphones, there's no room acoustic to mess with. You get the BEST sound no matter which room you're listening in.


 
  
 Yah that. If it brings you that much enjoyment (and I definitely like but don't own those expensive Focal speakers), then the cost to bring that enjoyment is justified assuming you can meet your meatspace reality needs and afford the extra luxury.


----------



## Contrails

> Problem is the majority of us are useless sheep and just except these prices. I'm not excepting the $4K HP market


 
  
 Yep I agree with you but we are gonna be a minority in a way, haha.


----------



## Shini44

badas said:


> Dude. HE6. High impedance. You need all the power you can get.


 
 there is power button and level , both are high ofc
  
 yet didn't the HE-6 had like 50 Ω??? and the rule of thumb is to set <100Ω to L ??
  
 but again i feel like the H on Ω button gave me a better punch and a fuller sound and right now all is set to H with the HE-6 plugged.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

Baa Baa Baa - I _sheepishly_ share new LCD-X with WE422A heaters in 6SE.


----------



## John Q Lin

Hi guys, any suggestion on a amp to complement my grace m9xx. Thanks.


----------



## koiloco

chrisisawesome said:


> Its a luxury item for people to indulge in.
> If they're willing and capable of spending that amount of money on something even if its not practical then good for them.
> 
> The same reason $4000 power cables exist... which are void of logic. The same reason people who drive like absolute losers still buy expensive and powerful Mercedes and bmw's. It's good to see some common sense.
> ...


 
  
 Let's trade ?


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Yes please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i want your headphone and tubes, my akg's aren't really doing the amp justice. I like the old rca input, it looks more industrial/masculine.
  
 Issue:
 Seems it was caused by my cbs hytrons


----------



## jerick70

john q lin said:


> Hi guys, any suggestion on a amp to complement my grace m9xx. Thanks.


 
  
 I think any of the Woo amps will compliment the Grace very well.  I haven't owned the m9xx so YMMV.  But, every DAC that I've thrown at my WA22 has sounded spectacular.  I also have a WA7 and it has sounded excellent with all of the DACs I have tried too.  
  
 Whats your budget for an amp?


----------



## jerick70

chrisisawesome said:


> Its a luxury item for people to indulge in.
> If they're willing and capable of spending that amount of money on something even if its not practical then good for them.
> 
> The same reason $4000 power cables exist... which are void of logic. The same reason people who drive like absolute losers still buy expensive and powerful Mercedes and bmw's. It's good to see some common sense.
> ...


 
  
 Very nice.  You will love the WA22.  It is a magnificent head amp!


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Bitten by bug, very nice headphones. How does the woo cope with low impedance planars?
 I've been wondering about LCD-X vs Hifiman edition x
  
 For those who haven't seen internals including phase splitter and potentiometer.


 sorry for crap pic quality


----------



## John Q Lin

jerick70 said:


> john q lin said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys, any suggestion on a amp to complement my grace m9xx. Thanks.
> ...


 I'm looking for something that would drive the HE 6. My budget is 100 million dollars


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

My experience so far. Seems like tube amp's are only ever really as good as the tubes that go into them.
  
 GE 6sn7gtb- slightly grainy, loose flabby bass.
 CBS Hytrons- clear, neutral, revealing. I might try some ken rads in the future for extra bass.
 I heard the tung sol 6f8g's on the demo unit which i liked the sound of, very smooth. Which 6sn7 has the closest sound signature to 6f8g?
  
 RCA 6sn7g's are fine, I'll stick with them.
  
 Brimar 5z4gy- Great detail, clarity. It caused a lot of fatigue through my headphones so i need to look at an alternative.
 Psvane HiFi series 5u4g- Bloated sound with less detail than the brimar, non fatiguing though.
  
 I'll either need to change tubes to compliment my akg's since they are easily fatiguing, or buy a different headphone.


----------



## wcsmd

I am a neophyte to Headfi and I wanted to get some opinions as to headphone amps. I currently have a Pathos Aurium hybrid headphone amp and Headphones: Senn HD650, Senn HD 800S. and Audese LCD3 phones. I have been looking at the Woo amps and could not make my mind up whether I should get the WA6SE or the WA22 amp. My source is a Linn Sondek CD12 player and a Linn Sondek turntable, heavily modified. Downstream I have all Linn equipment including speakers. I now live in a condo and cannot play my music as loud as it needs to be to be enjoyable so I am entering the Headfi space. Please let me know which Woo would be better or if there is another more appropriate headphone amp.
Thanks
Bill


----------



## jerick70

wcsmd said:


> I am a neophyte to Headfi and I wanted to get some opinions as to headphone amps. I currently have a Pathos Aurium hybrid headphone amp and Headphones: Senn HD650, Senn HD 800S. and Audese LCD3 phones. I have been looking at the Woo amps and could not make my mind up whether I should get the WA6SE or the WA22 amp. My source is a Linn Sondek CD12 player and a Linn Sondek turntable, heavily modified. Downstream I have all Linn equipment including speakers. I now live in a condo and cannot play my music as loud as it needs to be to be enjoyable so I am entering the Headfi space. Please let me know which Woo would be better or if there is another more appropriate headphone amp.
> Thanks
> Bill


 
  
 I think you would be happy with either amp with your audio chain.  I am a little biased and would recommend the WA22.


----------



## u2u2

wcsmd said:


> I am a neophyte to Headfi and I wanted to get some opinions as to headphone amps. I currently have a Pathos Aurium hybrid headphone amp and Headphones: Senn HD650, Senn HD 800S. and Audese LCD3 phones. I have been looking at the Woo amps and could not make my mind up whether I should get the WA6SE or the WA22 amp. My source is a Linn Sondek CD12 player and a Linn Sondek turntable, heavily modified. Downstream I have all Linn equipment including speakers. I now live in a condo and cannot play my music as loud as it needs to be to be enjoyable so I am entering the Headfi space. Please let me know which Woo would be better or if there is another more appropriate headphone amp.
> Thanks
> Bill


 

 I am also a condo dweller and started my Woo collection with a WA6 then added a WA22. I had considered a WA6SE but the tube rolling options were too limited. I would suggest the WA22 is the sweet spot in the Woo line and there are very active posters here using the WA22. You have a nice selection of headphones that would justify feeding higher and getting a 22. If you are uncertain about a pure tube amp I suggest try the WA6 and if you like it upgrade to the 22. Most tubes you acquire for the 6 would work in the 22. If you buy a WA22, buy new or a recent build - to get a phase splitter built in, especially important if you aren't feeding it from a balanced source. Other more appropriate amps? This is a Woo thread so there is a strong bias.... Enjoy your journey.


----------



## koiloco

jerick70 said:


> I think you would be happy with either amp with your audio chain.  I am a little biased and would recommend the WA22.


 
  
 Though I am not as biased 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I would recommend WA22 as well.  I auditioned both and went with WA22.  It's quite a bit more amp, given the $ difference.


----------



## Contrails

> > I am a neophyte to Headfi and I wanted to get some opinions as to headphone amps. I currently have a Pathos Aurium hybrid headphone amp and Headphones: Senn HD650, Senn HD 800S. and Audese LCD3 phones. I have been looking at the Woo amps and could not make my mind up whether I should get the WA6SE or the WA22 amp. My source is a Linn Sondek CD12 player and a Linn Sondek turntable, heavily modified. Downstream I have all Linn equipment including speakers. I now live in a condo and cannot play my music as loud as it needs to be to be enjoyable so I am entering the Headfi space. Please let me know which Woo would be better or if there is another more appropriate headphone amp.
> > Thanks
> > Bill


 
  
 LF339 and Felix Audio Elise would be two other amps I would consider too along with the Woo amps.  Or maybe even shoot Glenn a PM and ask him about his custom made amps.


----------



## Bitten by Bug

@ChrisIsAwesome
  
 WA6/6SE have no problem pushing the LDC-X.  I was just surprised the HP needed 100+ hours to burn-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 @wdsmd
  
 Owning both the WA6 and WA6SE they work fine with the LCD-X and also HD650. One of the amps Woo recommends with your LCD-3 is the WA6SE, but not the WA6.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

I think ill be looking at some new headphones soon since my akg's are so harsh. Just to clarify has anyone else had fatigue issues with the Brimar 5z4gy?
 I want to make sure its the HP's not tubes. My ears feel jarred after listening and some songs just sound like I'm inside of a tin can, like harsh resonating sound.
  
 After watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVUG6ewo_J4 I'm actually super excited about the Focal Elear. I love the diaphragm design, different to the typical thin plastic films most dynamics use it looks more like a speaker and the depth of that voice coil is cool.


----------



## wcsmd

Does the Woo WA22 use a separate power source like the WA6SE?


----------



## jerick70

wcsmd said:


> Does the Woo WA22 use a separate power source like the WA6SE?




No it doesn't.


----------



## Badas

chrisisawesome said:


> I think ill be looking at some new headphones soon since my akg's are so harsh. Just to clarify has anyone else had fatigue issues with the Brimar 5z4gy?
> I want to make sure its the HP's not tubes. My ears feel jarred after listening and some songs just sound like I'm inside of a tin can, like harsh resonating sound.




I've never experienced that with the Brimar 5Z4GY. I use LCD-X and LCD-3 tho. Very mellow/warm HP's.
I have listened to the WA5 with Brimars using HD800 and that wasn't harsh. So maybe it is AKG's???


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> I've never experienced that with the Brimar 5Z4GY. I use LCD-X and LCD-3 tho. Very mellow/warm HP's.
> I have listened to the WA5 with Brimars using HD800 and that wasn't harsh. So maybe it is AKG's???




Yes it's the AKGs. I've owned the AKG 65th Annies and they exhibited that sound signature.


----------



## phase0

chrisisawesome said:


> I think ill be looking at some new headphones soon since my akg's are so harsh. Just to clarify has anyone else had fatigue issues with the Brimar 5z4gy?
> I want to make sure its the HP's not tubes. My ears feel jarred after listening and some songs just sound like I'm inside of a tin can, like harsh resonating sound.


 
  
 Well I still have the Brimar plugged in to my WA5. I wouldn't consider it fatiguing. There was a little bit I blame my DAC and it seems fixed now running the Yggdrasil.


----------



## artemart

Does any one know where I can buy a pair of 6c8g tung-sol or have pair for sale? I really want to try it with my WA5.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Prices should be going down not up.


 
  
 They are.  The quality of headphone you can buy today for under $500 dollars far exceeds the sound quality of the sub-$500 headphone class of 5-years ago.  Today you can buy the latest version HD-650 for under $500.  5-years ago you couldn't touch the HD-650 at under $500.  The HE-400s is better than the HE-400 of old, and more affordable.  If the HE-1000 is too rich for you, there's now a terrific sounding Edition X at 2/3 the price of the HE-1000.  Audeze has been terrific releasing various price range headphones with trickle down tech from the LCD-4.  Massdrop's THX-00 brings what was the $1000 dollar headphone sound of two years ago to a very affordable $400 dollars.  
  
 This is the best time ever for anyone who appreciates high-quality music.  We've never had so many good, affordable options for terrific sounding gear.  Yet I have many friends who believe I am positively nuts for owning a $400 dollar headphone and think I should have my head examined for owning the HE-1000 and HD-800.  
  
 Sennheiser's HE-1 (Orpheus) is $55,000.  There's always going to be a high end no one can afford except the uber-rich and those who put paying for audiophile gear ahead of home-ownership.  No judgment here-- but I'm not one of those people.  
  
 If you want to own the best, you're going to have to put your hi-fi addiction ahead of other basic needs, or stop hanging out here and work weekends and 14-hour days to save up enough money to afford it.  Of course by then, there may be an HE-2 at double the price.
  
 Audiophile equipment sucks as an investment.  I buy almost everything used or I wait for a deal I can't pass up.  That's how I sleep at night.
  
 I always advise to set spending limits, buy what you like, find deals, and enjoy it.  I have the HE-1000, WA-5LE v2, and Hugo TT.  I love the setup.  Are there better rigs?  Sure.  But this setup works for me, and I got a deal on each.  The HE-1000 was purchased on the Beta discount program.  The WA5LE v2 was purchased through a trade-in of a WA5LE v1 I picked on eBay for $1700 bucks.  When it died, Woo gave me a massive credit toward an upgrade (love you, guys!).  I found the Hugo TT on eBay and slipped in a late bid winning it for $2900.  It's black (I prefer silver) but that compromise represents the badge of honor I wear for finding a great deal.  I'm happy with the whole rig, and more proud of the money I saved putting it together.


----------



## Badas

reeltime said:


> They are.  The quality of headphone you can buy today for under $500 dollars far exceeds the sound quality of the sub-$500 headphone class of 5-years ago.  Today you can buy the latest version HD-650 for under $500.  5-years ago you couldn't touch the HD-650 at under $500.  The HE-400s is better than the HE-400 of old, and more affordable.  If the HE-1000 is too rich for you, there's now a terrific sounding Edition X at 2/3 the price of the HE-1000.  Audeze has been terrific releasing various price range headphones with trickle down tech from the LCD-4.  Massdrop's THX-00 brings what was the $1000 dollar headphone sound of two years ago to a very affordable $400 dollars.
> 
> This is the best time ever for anyone who appreciates high-quality music.  We've never had so many good, affordable options for terrific sounding gear.  Yet I have many friends who believe I am positively nuts for owning a $400 dollar headphone and think I should have my head examined for owning the HE-1000 and HD-800.
> 
> ...


 

 Very good points. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm going to ignore these urber HP's. Listening to my Vega, WA22 and LCD-X setup yesterday was just heaven. So what about other equipment then.


----------



## artemart

artemart said:


> Does any one know where I can buy a pair of 6c8g tung-sol or have pair for sale? I really want to try it with my WA5.


 
 I guess not


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> I guess not


 

 Holding onto mine for dear life. There isn't any around anymore.


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> Holding onto mine for dear life. There isn't any around anymore.


 
 What is the second best thing then?


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> What is the second best thing then?


 
  
 I'd say the National Union 6C8G, or Tung Sol 6F8G Round Plate (I managed to cobble a couple pairs together from some singles but these are also hard to come by and may take some dumb luck). Then in general I think I like the 6C8G and 6F8G more than the 6SN7s that I've tried.


----------



## Shini44

hey guys usatubes got Elrog 300b (new edition) delayed again :< they don't know when they will get them T_T
  
 so i don't think i want to wait more with the 300b stock tubes -.-''
  
  
 what is a good alternative that would be a good pair with the Mullard GZ34 Metal Base??? on the WA5-LE ofc
  
 what are the options? some options including the Taka300b would be a miss match due the speed different O-o'' so i guess i need a fast good quality 300b tube?


----------



## Khragon

Not sure how you figure that Tak would be a mismatch. From what I gather they sound good with any supporting tubes. I don't have them though.

If you're looking for a weightier sound than look into Sophia Royal Princess 300B.


----------



## Shini44

the miss match due the speed was a result of a test was done here, included elrog, mulllard and taka set mixing
  
 i will change the drivers with a faster one that @jhljhl recommended before, and then will try to find a good upgrade from the stock tubes
  
 so the sophiya royal 300 is fast or similar to the taka with less details?


----------



## Khragon

Didn't know about that, do you mind pointing me to the test. It'll be an interesting read.


----------



## menieres

How do WA6 or WA2 compare with Feliks Elise? Anybody here have both?
  
 For use with Senn HD650.
  
 TIA


----------



## Shini44

khragon said:


> Didn't know about that, do you mind pointing me to the test. It'll be an interesting read.


 
 very good tests, made me go for this amp.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/32145#post_11221439
  
 and 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/32145#post_11221798


----------



## 2359glenn

shini44 said:


> what are the options? some options including the Taka300b would be a miss match due the speed different O-o'' so i guess i need a fast good quality 300b tube?


 
 Miss match in speed ???? Wow now I heard everything.


----------



## Shini44

2359glenn said:


> Miss match in speed ???? Wow now I heard everything.


 
 feel free to check the post above :/ people paid to test that....


----------



## 2359glenn

shini44 said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > Miss match in speed ???? Wow now I heard everything.
> ...


 
  
 I checked it someones opinion.
 Who paid for that??  And the speed of what the GZ34 it's a rectifier no sound goes through the rectifier it changes AC to DC in the power supply.
 Rectifiers do sound different from the voltage drop they impose on the power supply nothing to do with speed.


----------



## koiloco

shini44 said:


> feel free to check the post above :/ people paid to test that....


 
 Stop before you make a fool of yourself.  It's always a good idea to understand a little bit about what you are reading, especially reviews these days,  instead of blindly applying the old "appeal to authority" fallacy.


----------



## ru4music

shini44 said:


> very good tests, made me go for this amp.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/32145#post_11221439
> 
> ...


 

 There's some good subjective info in the provided posts; however, I wouldn't (absolutely not!) subscribe to the TAK 300B speed issue theory.  I have read too many posts from too many talented/ engaged people over the last ten years on this forum to even begin entertaining that thought.  Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## artemart

phase0 said:


> I'd say the National Union 6C8G, or Tung Sol 6F8G Round Plate (I managed to cobble a couple pairs together from some singles but these are also hard to come by and may take some dumb luck). Then in general I think I like the 6C8G and 6F8G more than the 6SN7s that I've tried.


 
  
 Thanks phase, Also Jan National Union 6C8G > Tun Sol 6F8G.
  
 I am also thinking about getting TS RP 6SN7 does any one know if it will be better on my WA 5 then Jan NU 6C8G?
 Also is there any difference between RCA 6C8G vs Jan RCA 6C8G?


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Thanks to those who helped me with all the questions i had.
  
 I decided to pass the woo on in favor of SS. It was a short lived experience,  just like my first time. I'm just joking!
 I went to store to test it out with a whole bunch of different dac's and headphones along side other amps but the issue remained. Just really harsh, sibilant, resonating.  I don't know how better to describe it, but it was on extended high tones/sounds that caused huge fatigue. Plus i don't want the fuss and expense of constantly hunting tubes for the best sound out of an amp. 
  
 I was amazed that compared to my $300 akg k7xx's most of the high end headphones weren't even that much better, just 'different' sound signatures.
  
 These are just quick impressions, in a noisy environment.
 - Lcd-x, Far too heavy, like 2 boulders on my head. These actually highlighted the issue with the amp and caused piercing highs which shocked me.
 - Hifi Edition x, My favorite of all that i tried. Very clean, well balanced sound signature. I'm amazed they can make planars that efficient.
 - HD 800s, Lacked any kind of presence or impact. Huge sound stage though. Very underwhelming for the price. Maybe a longer listen would give me some appreciation.
 - HD700, Nice sound overall but the peak in the highs makes them too hard to listen to.
 - ENIGMAcoustics Dharma D1000, lacked sound stage but had really great overall sound. Pleasantly surprised.
  
  
 Dac's are dac's, the chips are pretty much all the same.
 - ak 100ii
 - Violectric V800
 - Schiit bifrost
  
 + other stuff
  
 It was an interesting experience and now I'm left with a ton of store credit. I'll have a pair of rca 6as7g's, cbs hytron 6sn7's and a single brimar 5z4gy to sell for anyone who's interested just pm.


----------



## leftside

I've tried a bunch of head amps this year, and the reason why I kept the WA22 is because of how smooth the highs sound. I can notice a real difference compared to my mainly solid state system in another room. My favorite listening experience with my various gear is Turntable -> Tube Phono Stage -> SS preamp -> Woo WA22 Tube Headphone Amp. I can understand not wanting to get involved in the tube hunt tho.


----------



## koiloco

chrisisawesome said:


> I was amazed that compared to my $300 akg k7xx's most of the high end headphones weren't even that much better, just 'different' sound signatures.


 
  
 You just saved yourself a lot of $$$$. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 J/k asides, I owned Akg K7xx for a long time.  I am a big Akg fan and agree that for $300 their k7xx HPs kick ass but other high end HPs "are better".  How much better is always very subjective.  I had q701 and HD800 at the same time for a long time.  It took a little bit of time for me and my ears to come to conclusion that they are not in the same league. 
  
 Gluck on your HP journey and let me be the one to say "sorry for your wallet"


----------



## Shini44

2359glenn said:


> I checked it someones opinion.
> Who paid for that??  And the speed of what the GZ34 it's a rectifier no sound goes through the rectifier it changes AC to DC in the power supply.
> Rectifiers do sound different from the voltage drop they impose on the power supply nothing to do with speed.


 
 so it will be fine to use the taka300b over the stock tube with the metal base GZ34? without being worried that the sound will be weird? i really hope so O-o'' what do you think? 
  
 so the problem was something else? do you recommend that i go taka/gz 34 metal base? over stick 300b
  


koiloco said:


> Stop before you make a fool of yourself.  It's always a good idea to understand a little bit about what you are reading, especially reviews these days,  instead of blindly applying the old "appeal to authority" fallacy.


 
  
 sorry about the confusion, English isn't my first language , its easy to miss understand some technical posts
  
 Quote:


ru4music said:


> There's some good subjective info in the provided posts; however, I wouldn't (absolutely not!) subscribe to the TAK 300B speed issue theory.  I have read too many posts from too many talented/ engaged people over the last ten years on this forum to even begin entertaining that thought.  Just my 2 cents worth.


 
 tak300b and metal base gz34 will sound good? over the stock 300b tube?
  
 i was worried after i read some of the posts, again wasn't able to understand it i guess?
  
  
 thanks for the info people.


----------



## Shini44

Hello? so TA-300b with the Mullard GZ34 (good or bad idea??) or do i wait for the new Elrog 300b? 
  
 the stock 300b is killing me and i am super eager to change it -.-''
  
 or maybe i should use the Brimar 5zgy with the TA-300b? till i get TA-247
  
 planing to order on Saturday yet need to collect some info O-o''


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Expensive tubes you're getting there shini44 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I went back to test some more on a fresh set of ears. The only thing we could equate it to is a possible lack of burn in time or my being sensitivity to certain harmonics / harmonic distortions if that's possible. Solid state seems so boring compared to tubes, in sound and overall experience.  
  
 My 2 favorite hp's actually turned out being the hd 800S and MrSpeakers Ether. I didn't even bother with he1000 though, too expensive.
 The HD 800S on fresh ears and in a quieter environment made a huge difference. Still lacked impact i think but had such well balanced, clear, detailed sound without any harshness.
  
 I wish you all the best of luck in finding the right sound.


----------



## Shini44

yeh trying to reach a certain sound sig XD  was about to buy the new Elrog 300b and test it, but it got delayed by the manufacture @_@
  
 i don't find the SS amps boring as i listen to J-pop which need the speed and bass control but they lack the good mids which is important for the female vocals which is why i went with the WA5
  
  
 now with the Elrog 300b new production is getting delayed again and again i am looking into TA-300b but still wonder if it will be good for my Mullard GZ34 metal base or even Brimar 5gzy .


----------



## artemart

shini44 said:


> yeh trying to reach a certain sound sig XD  was about to buy the new Elrog 300b and test it, but it got delayed by the manufacture @_@
> 
> i don't find the SS amps boring as i listen to J-pop which need the speed and bass control but they lack the good mids which is important for the female vocals which is why i went with the WA5
> 
> ...


 
 I would not touch Elrog 300b after hearing that their production is delayed over and over.
 That means that the company is pushing to release too hard with out doing a proper tests.
  
 As for TA-300b I keep hearing good things about it also if your budget can afford it you may want to look into buying WE-300B pair. I know that the price difference is about $1.5-2k but WE-300B should last 2 or more times longer then TA-300B. This way you will stop looking for 300B tube and not worry for very long time about finding a replacement.


----------



## ken6217

Not much mention of Sophia Royal Princess. I think it's fantastic.


----------



## Shini44

ordered TA-300B from the local store here, i  will have it by the 10th, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 since i asked for that date, before that i will be busy. we have Ramadan (holy month) and AL Eid coming after it, so won't be able to use it till the 10th -.-''
  
  
  
 btw people how long can i keep the WA5-LE on?? want to burn in the tubes and give them 100 hours. also do i need to keep the music on loop + low volume?  and with or without headphones?


----------



## ken6217

Woo says 8-10 hours but not to leave it unattended.


----------



## Shini44

ken6217 said:


> Woo says 8-10 hours but not to leave it unattended.


 
 so same as the WA7? 8 hours then 15 min break for the tubes to cool down? then another session? at least this was the WA7's case.


----------



## ken6217

I don't know the answer to that. You could email Woo customer service and ask. They are good at getting back.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

shini44 said:


> so same as the WA7? 8 hours then 15 min break for the tubes to cool down? then another session? at least this was the WA7's case.


 
  
 We say that to be on the safe side so people don't leave the amp ON 24/7 and unattended. Just use it as normal, power OFF when not in use for an extended period of time (beyond 30 min.).


----------



## WillB (Mar 14, 2021)

old post


----------



## Vigrith

willb said:


> I have a question. It seems like a lot of people, if they own a Woo Audio product, own the WA6 or WA6 SE, The Fireflies have had a big sales success but that's another story. Not a Woo Audio owner yet, I'm more partial to the WA22. So what's the deal with that? Why do people prefer the WA6/SE over the WA22? Even on Youtube there has been only one video from Thailand until last month when someone else finally posted a WA22 review. Any comments about this? Why don't you head-fiers like the WA22?


 
  
 I feel it's more economy related rather than head-fiers being partial to their "lower" tier products - I personally own the Fireflies, my budget currently does not extend much over a grand unfortunately. If it did however, and for those that do have more means than I, the market is a bit broader when it comes to options around 2k+. I was literally just having this conversation in another thread last night, once you step into that zone names like Eddie Current ZDS, Stratus, etc start popping up and questions are raised.
  
 If you go over that price pool you'll start entering WA5LE territory and you'll see interest is peaked again, as it stands between the aforementioned 2-3k and the 5k+ Apex Teton and Viva amps. As someone on that other thread put it, the 1-2k field is a bit of a "purgatory" when it comes to tube amplification devices, I (at least partially) agree with that notion. Of course that's not to say I dislike the WA22, as a Woo customer I'm 100% certain it is extremely competent as that it perfectly excels at its job as does my WA7, but point still stands.


----------



## leftside

Quite a few WA22 owners post on here.


----------



## Badas

willb said:


> I have a question. It seems like a lot of people, if they own a Woo Audio product, own the WA6 or WA6 SE, The Fireflies have had a big sales success but that's another story. Not a Woo Audio owner yet, I'm more partial to the WA22. So what's the deal with that? Why do people prefer the WA6/SE over the WA22? Even on Youtube there has been only one video from Thailand until last month when someone else finally posted a WA22 review. Any comments about this? Why don't you head-fiers like the WA22?







leftside said:


> Quite a few WA22 owners post on here.




Stacks of WA22 owners here. Fantastic amp. WA22 in the back of this pic.



For all you Melody Gardot fans (there is a few of us). Tony and I watched her bluray of her concert in Paris last night. Fantastic stuff. Highly recommended. All her good music with a slightly faster more upbeat feel to it. A lot more of a blues / Jazz beat. Some extremely talented musicians with her also. One guy played two saxophones at the same time on one track. 
Interestingly there is two sound mixes on the disc. 2 channel and DTSHDMA. Which is great. I used DTS for the Home Theatre and I'm now using 2 channel for headphones. So a dual purpose disc.


----------



## versace

willb said:


> I have a question. It seems like a lot of people, if they own a Woo Audio product, own the WA6 or WA6 SE, The Fireflies have had a big sales success but that's another story. Not a Woo Audio owner yet, I'm more partial to the WA22. So what's the deal with that? Why do people prefer the WA6/SE over the WA22? Even on Youtube there has been only one video from Thailand until last month when someone else finally posted a WA22 review. Any comments about this? Why don't you head-fiers like the WA22?


 
 I still love and use my WA22 even though i moved on to the Eddie Current BA. WA22 is a killer amp!


----------



## ru4music

shini44 said:


> ordered TA-300B from the local store here, i  will have it by the 10th,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great, you made a decision! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I'm sure you'll be very happy with that combination, you may even discover other music genera that you'll like in addition to  J-POP.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> *For all you Melody Gardot fans* (there is a few of us). Tony and I watched her bluray of her concert in Paris last night. Fantastic stuff. Highly recommended. All her good music with a slightly faster more upbeat feel to it. A lot more of a blues / Jazz beat. Some extremely talented musicians with her also. One guy played two saxophones at the same time on one track.
> Interestingly there is two sound mixes on the disc. 2 channel and DTSHDMA. Which is great. I used DTS for the Home Theatre and I'm now using 2 channel for headphones. So a dual purpose disc.


 
 Good to know, thanks!


----------



## Shini44

ru4music said:


> Great, you made a decision!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 still this post from @Fririce0003 make me feel kind of worried O-o''
  


fririce0003 said:


> Mullard Metal Bases, Takatsuki 300B, TSRP: The Takatsukis were practically fresh out of the box at the time, we tried this combo whilst they were still fresh and didn't go back so take this with a grain of salt as the Takatsuki's improved vastly with every hour we put on them.
> The Takatsuki added extra bass to the mix but lost some control over it compared to the Elrog there was some bloom present. The soundstage was spread out a tad and there was a euphonic nature to the music. The Mullards and Takatsukis seemed to just be a miss match, in terms of speed and sound characteristics. It was a disappointing result given the amount of money and effort that took place to get these tubes. So we hurried to switch in the Takatsuki rectifiers in the hopes that they would be voiced to complement each other.... And we were greatly rewarded.


 
  
  
 so in case i didn't like the sound then i will pair the TA-300B with Brimar 5z4gy and try to compare the differences.
  
  
 the TA-247 will be ordered later next month. i mean 1850$ XD got to wait


----------



## artemart

Deleted


----------



## Shini44

can anyone tell me about the C3G driver tubes? how does it sound on the WA5-LE? planing to pair it with the Metal Base GZ34/TA-300B
  
 i will need an adapter with them too right?
  
 i found C3G TELEFUNKEN and C3G SIEMENS , different sound or similar?  
  
 for EDM and J-pop i should go with Raytheon VT-231? since its brighter and more dynamic etc.
  
  
 dang i want to test all the options XD


----------



## jelt2359

shini44 said:


> can anyone tell me about the C3G driver tubes? how does it sound on the WA5-LE? planing to pair it with the Metal Base GZ34/TA-300B
> 
> i will need an adapter with them too right?
> 
> ...




For me C3G, and takatsuki 300B/274B is my favourite combi. I like the metal base in other amps like my apex Teton, but on my wa5 I prefer the takatsuki rectifier. 

I've heard most if not all C3G's are similar sounding, btw.


----------



## Shini44

thanks for the info, guess i will start with Raytheon VT-231 first, as it will contribute to the sound sig which i am after.


----------



## Rossliew

For the WA5-LE version 2, are the rectifier tubes required to be matched pairs?


----------



## Khragon

rossliew said:


> For the WA5-LE version 2, are the rectifier tubes required to be matched pairs?


 
 I talked to Jack about this before, and the answer is no, but never hut to check again, also this is with v1, but I fairly that hasn't changed.  I think the two tubes are wired in series, so just be sure you have the same type.


----------



## Rossliew

khragon said:


> I talked to Jack about this before, and the answer is no, but never hut to check again, also this is with v1, but I fairly that hasn't changed.  I think the two tubes are wired in series, so just be sure you have the same type.


 

 Thanks for the reply...perhaps @HiFiGuy528 can offer some feedback/confirmation?


----------



## artemart

rossliew said:


> For the WA5-LE version 2, are the rectifier tubes required to be matched pairs?


 
 No, WA5-LE V2 does not require matching rectifiers. I have used multiple sets of not matched rectifiers with no problem.
  
 Also is it worth trying C3G tube when I have matched pair of Tung Sol 6F8G and JAN NU 6C8G (this is actual military tube not just JAN).


----------



## Rossliew

artemart said:


> No, WA5-LE V2 does not require matching rectifiers. I have used multiple sets of not matched rectifiers with no problem.
> 
> Also is it worth trying C3G tube when I have matched pair of Tung Sol 6F8G and JAN NU 6C8G (this is actual military tube not just JAN).




Thanks for that. I don't have the wa5 yet but am trying to establish some cost benchmark before I take the plunge


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> No, WA5-LE V2 does not require matching rectifiers. I have used multiple sets of not matched rectifiers with no problem.
> 
> Also is it worth trying C3G tube when I have matched pair of Tung Sol 6F8G and JAN NU 6C8G (this is actual military tube not just JAN).


 

 I've listened to the C3G and the TSRP. I preferred the TSRP. More musical.
 Sure the C3G had more micro detail. However that detail got on my nerves.
 C3G can get harsh. It needs warmth from other tubes.


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> I've listened to the C3G and the TSRP. I preferred the TSRP. More musical.
> Sure the C3G had more micro detail. However that detail got on my nerves.
> C3G can get harsh. It needs warmth from other tubes.


 
 Thank you Badas for your opinion. I will put them in buy only if I find very good deal category.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Thank you Badas for your opinion. I will put them in buy only if I find very good deal category.


 

 You need driver adapters as well. You can't just install them in.


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> You need driver adapters as well. You can't just install them in.


 
 i know  also not a fan of woo adapters because my broke in less then a moth....
  
 Also have you tried 5U4GB rectifier? I picked up two used but very strong tubes from local military surplus store for $20 total and I think it is very fun and relaxing tube to listen. I do not think it is better then brimar but I think it is very fun because of sound signature it has.


----------



## Badas

For anyone in Auckland, New Zealand who wants to see some HP gear.
  
_*Auckland Meet. Sunday July 10th. 1PM to 4-5PM.*_
  
 PM me if interested. Then I can provide address details.
 Lets get those numbers up.
  
 Dono


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> For anyone in Auckland, New Zealand who wants to see some HP gear.
> 
> _*Auckland Meet. Sunday July 10th. 1PM to 4-5PM.*_
> 
> ...


 
  
 If only I lived in New Zealand I would sign up immediately.  But I live 7127 miles away... https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=distance+from+Logan+utah+to+auckland+new+zeland&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#channel=fs&q=distance+from+Logan+utah+to+auckland+new+zealand
  
 Unfortunately I can't make it.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> If only I lived in New Zealand I would sign up immediately.  But I live 7127 miles away... https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=distance+from+Logan+utah+to+auckland+new+zeland&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#channel=fs&q=distance+from+Logan+utah+to+auckland+new+zealand
> 
> Unfortunately I can't make it.


 

 I would buy ya a beer if you made the effort.


----------



## artemart

Did any one try to use SS rectifier in their tube amp? if any one have can you please share your impressions.
  
  
 Link to a SS rectifier:
 https://tubedepot.com/products/solid-state-rectifier?gclid=Cj0KEQjwwMi7BRDGptbvwOCDj8oBEiQAIALyDPbPVYLnvrhymqpZoaZu_VJEAm_H3dy9jej_GZP6O-MaAgCG8P8HAQ


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> I would buy ya a beer if you made the effort.




I would in a heart beat, I've always wanted to go to NZ. And seeing my fellow head-fiers would be a real treat! The plane ticket will cost the price of a WA5 though. Maybe I could make a box and ship myself in it. That's only a couple of hundred dollars.


----------



## Shini44

artemart said:


> Did any one try to use SS rectifier in their tube amp? if any one have can you please share your impressions.
> 
> 
> Link to a SS rectifier:
> https://tubedepot.com/products/solid-state-rectifier?gclid=Cj0KEQjwwMi7BRDGptbvwOCDj8oBEiQAIALyDPbPVYLnvrhymqpZoaZu_VJEAm_H3dy9jej_GZP6O-MaAgCG8P8HAQ


 
 +1
  
 sound too interesting, would like to know more about this :O 
  
 update:
  
 found this article: http://www.soldano.com/amp-help/tube-vs-solid-state-rectifiers/
  
 does he mean that SS rectifier will increase the power, add a punch in the lows, and control the bass? 
  
 still if this was a good approach it will be popular with tube amps right? which is not the case here.
  
 update II:
  
 found this as well
 "_Tube rectification will intruduce more "sag" at higher (peak) demands, but that may also be a desirable characteristic too. As with solid state/diodes you don't experience that. Now that may sound fine and dandy but here's the problems you would have that would need addressed... _
_1). Higher voltages that your electrolytic caps may not like or other components. _
_2). Without some sort standby switch for the B+ or a delay, you now have a rush of voltage on the tubes before they have any chance of warming up, and you will go through output tubes!! _
_As for more damage with tube rectification...not really as long as the power supply components are healthy..no problem._"
  
 not sure if this whole SS rectifier is safe for my tubes, like TA-300B for example O-o'' although that i wana try it
  
  
 anyone else gave the SS rectifier a chance? or know if its a good or bad idea??


----------



## Badas

shini44 said:


> +1
> 
> sound too interesting, would like to know more about this :O
> 
> ...


 

 I think if a amp is designed to use a tube rectifier then it is best to use a tube. Rectifier is a silly tube. It only turns AC power to DC. I wish they made more tube amps without them. Like a beefed up WA6. I really like some of the EC designed amps that just have driver tubes and 300B power tubes. Makes a lot of sense to me.


----------



## ken6217

The EC amps do have recifier tubes. They are inside as opposed to being visible.


----------



## Stereolab42

shini44 said:


> anyone else gave the SS rectifier a chance? or know if its a good or bad idea??


 
  
 Hell no. This is a religious issue. If you're going to pay thousands for a TOTL tube amp, it should be all tubes. Otherwise just get a much cheaper hybrid like the Lyr 2, which can do 6 wpc for $450.


----------



## Badas

ken6217 said:


> The EC amps do have recifier tubes. They are inside as opposed to being visible.


 

 Opps. I forgot about that. Right you are.


----------



## Shini44

stereolab42 said:


> Hell no. This is a religious issue. If you're going to pay thousands for a TOTL tube amp, it should be all tubes. Otherwise just get a much cheaper hybrid like the Lyr 2, which can do 6 wpc for $450.


 
 just wanted to test it for sometime hehehe i am all about TOTL tubes ofc
  
  
 waiting for my TA-300B and man the burn in time is the most boring and long :' )  like 200 hours dang O-o'' before the TA-300B show some magic.


----------



## Badas

shini44 said:


> just wanted to test it for sometime hehehe i am all about TOTL tubes ofc
> 
> 
> waiting for my TA-300B and man the burn in time is the most boring and long :' )  like 200 hours dang O-o'' before the TA-300B show some magic.


 

 That long burn in long life is the way the Tak's are designed.
  
 Fabulous tubes.
  
 My Tak 274B is still improving.


----------



## artemart

I need some help.
  
 I know that Brimar rectifier makes noise when you turn it on and then it slowly goes away as you use it.
 I have turned it on and the noise is about 3x louder then it normally is should I just replace the tube or there some debugging steps I can do?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Artem


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> I need some help.
> 
> I know that Brimar rectifier makes noise when you turn it on and then it slowly goes away as you use it.
> I have turned it on and the noise is about 3x louder then it normally is should I just replace the tube or there some debugging steps I can do?
> ...


 

 What amp?
  
 I own 17 Brimar 5Z4GY's. Not one has made a noise. Yes I have rolled them all.
  
 It could be other tubes in the chain that are generating noise. It will help if you told us what they are?
  
 Sometimes it is synergy. Some tubes just don't play nice with some tubes. Team them up with others then all of a sudden things work.
 NU 6F8G and 6C8G are really bad for not getting along with some tubes.


----------



## artemart

Thanks for reply.
  
 Amp:
 WA5-LE fully upgraded.
  
 Tubes:
 1) stock 300b Tube
 2) stock 6sn7GTB westinghouse. (my adapter to 6F8G broke).
 3) brimmer 5Z4GY
  
 As for noise I think I used wrong terminology.
 The noise is actually coming from brimmer 5Z4GY tube/tubes and not though sound in my headphone.
 I also heard brimmer tube make noise before but it was not this loud.
  
 On an odd note I have just turn on my amplifier and it was dead silent after about 30 minutes noise came back I can hear it about 1-2 meters away.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Thanks for reply.
> 
> Amp:
> WA5-LE fully upgraded.
> ...


 

 Something is not right and it is very hard to say what.
  
 Best thing to do is turn it off and have someone look at it. Before you blow the caps or worst melt a transformer.


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> Something is not right and it is very hard to say what.
> 
> Best thing to do is turn it off and have someone look at it. Before you blow the caps or worst melt a transformer.


 
 Should I try different rectifier tube?


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Should I try different rectifier tube?


 

 Yeah. If you have the stock tubes then give them a go.
  
 Don't leave the amp on making noise or not performing right for two long. Things can get very hot and nasty after a while.
  
 If it doesn't perform normally in the first minute. Turn it off.
  
 Hopefully it is just bad rectifier tubes. If so throw them away and get replacements. Bad tubes do happen.


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> The noise is actually coming from brimmer 5Z4GY tube/tubes and not though sound in my headphone.
> I also heard brimmer tube make noise before but it was not this loud.


 
  
 Yea I have a WA5 with Brimars installed. Never had that issue you are mentioned. +1 to what Badas said & hopefully it's just the tubes.


----------



## artemart

I have swapped my rectifier tube for a new set and it seems that the noise have chaged to just a hum and it is much harder to hear. I took audio of the noise and will send it to woo support tomorrow and upload audio to the forum.


----------



## Priscilla Rose

Could someone tell me how I can set my wa7 on 24bit 384khz? I got the second generation, but the XMOS interface won't let me touch anything. I could only put it on 192kHz through windows settings.


----------



## artemart

priscilla rose said:


> Could someone tell me how I can set my wa7 on 24bit 384khz? I got the second generation, but the XMOS interface won't let me touch anything. I could only put it on 192kHz through windows settings.


 
  
 I do not know the answer but I would try to go to playback devices then selecting your device and go to properties then go to advanced tab and set your output format from there.


----------



## artemart

Hey guys I would like to thank you all for your help with my amp problem. I have contacted Jack Wu and he told me that the hum I was hearing is nothing to worry about.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Hey guys I would like to thank you all for your help with my amp problem. I have contacted Jack Wu and he told me that the hum I was hearing is nothing to worry about.




I would agree with that. Hum is kinda normal with tube amps. They kinda have a mind of their own with hum. Sometimes they hum, sometimes not.


----------



## Vigrith

badas said:


> I would agree with that. Hum is kinda normal with tube amps. They kinda have a mind of their own with hum. Sometimes they hum, sometimes not.


 
  
 Yea that has been my experience too, it was weird at first but I've kinda gotten to it at this point. I have the WA7 Fireflies and the first few times I used it there was a slight hum; after a bit of use it was completely gone, as it should seeing as every review I've read/watched says the Fireflies background should be dead silent at any volume and with any headphones (even IEMs). Now after I turned it on after having been off for like 3-4 days in a row the hum is back at super loud, ear-deafening levels - only noticed when I accidentally turned the knob all the way up, all my headphones low impedance and as such need very little volume to play to my liking (11-12 o'clock, max).
  
 It's quite blatant too, it starts at around 3 o'clock it is obvious it is there and fairly loud - like a "whirring" sound almost, interference-like. This is obviously a non-issue seeing as I'd never run anything that loud if my life depended on it but still, funny the way tubes work. Glad to hear I'm not alone and that my tubes aren't faulty or so.


----------



## wcsmd

i have ordered 2 SS rectifiers and will try them out. Using a WA5.


----------



## Digital-Deviant

vigrith said:


> It's quite blatant too, it starts at around 3 o'clock it is obvious it is there and fairly loud - like a "whirring" sound almost, interference-like. This is obviously a non-issue seeing as I'd never run anything that loud if my life depended on it but still, funny the way tubes work.




Wow never been past 12 o'clock with 300ohm HD650s!


----------



## Priscilla Rose

Only put it past 12 when I used my phones as speakers.


----------



## leftside

The volume level on the Woo will depend upon many factors. Input source, preamp, tubes used, headphones, etc. Sometimes when listening to vinyl I'll have the volume level at the 2 o' clock position.


----------



## Vigrith

digital-deviant said:


> Wow never been past 12 o'clock with 300ohm HD650s!


 
  
 Yea I didn't have any sound playing obviously else I'd probably be deaf by now, hence I said it's a non-issue, loudest I go is like 11-12 o'clock (through my computer and with my source on max volume), as said in the previous post with high impedance headphones. I just noticed it because I turned the volume all the way up accidentally before I did anything.


----------



## Digital-Deviant

leftside said:


> Sometimes when listening to vinyl I'll have the volume level at the 2 o' clock position.




I guess I'll find out when I plug this in to my WA7!


----------



## pervysage

It's a shot in the dark but any Canadian WA5 owners looking to sell?


----------



## Badas

Here is a bit of a laugh guys. I was told to try a 6SN7 driver tube in the power socket with a 6BL7 power tube. So I did.
  
 It sounds unholy good. Best I've heard my amp. It seems to have everything now. Warmth, great treble detail and holographic.
  
 My amp is starting to look like a Frankenstein invention now tho and it cracks me up that I'm now using 4 variants of tubes in one amp. Now using Tak 274B, Tung-Sol 6C8G, Sylvania 6BL7 and RCA 6SN7 Greyglass.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

badas said:


> Here is a bit of a laugh guys. I was told to try a 6SN7 driver tube in the power socket with a 6BL7 power tube. So I did.
> 
> It sounds unholy good. Best I've heard my amp. It seems to have everything now. Warmth, great treble detail and holographic.
> 
> My amp is starting to look like a Frankenstein invention now tho and it cracks me up that I'm now using 4 variants of tubes in one amp. Now using Tak 274B, Tung-Sol 6C8G, Sylvania 6BL7 and RCA 6SN7 Greyglass.


 
  
 MADNESS!!!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

digital-deviant said:


> I guess I'll find out when I plug this in to my WA7!


 
  
 You'll need a good quality Phono preamp.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> Here is a bit of a laugh guys. I was told to try a 6SN7 driver tube in the power socket with a 6BL7 power tube. So I did.
> 
> It sounds unholy good. Best I've heard my amp. It seems to have everything now. Warmth, great treble detail and holographic.
> 
> My amp is starting to look like a Frankenstein invention now tho and it cracks me up that I'm now using 4 variants of tubes in one amp. Now using Tak 274B, Tung-Sol 6C8G, Sylvania 6BL7 and RCA 6SN7 Greyglass.


 
          Sacrilege  ! Lol


----------



## artemart

Does any one know if WA5 can use the same rectifier connector as badas is using?
  
 Also can you mix different company brands but same type of tube? Example 1 NU 6c8g and one TS 6c8g?
  
 I also just got this tube used and was wondering if this is ok? the odd pattern is inside of the tube.


----------



## Digital-Deviant

I have a Rega Fono, but a Woo WA7 phono stage would be nice - hint hint!


hifiguy528 said:


> You'll need a good quality Phono preamp.


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> Does any one know if WA5 can use the same rectifier connector as badas is using?
> 
> Also can you mix different company brands but same type of tube? Example 1 NU 6c8g and one TS 6c8g?
> 
> I also just got this tube used and was wondering if this is ok? the odd pattern is inside of the tube.


 
  
 The WA5 can use the Tak 274B. I wouldn't mix NU and TS 6c8g. They both have a different sound so that would probably be a little weird. I'm assuming since their both type 6c8g electrically they'll be compatible. For the used tube, I'd plug it in and listen to it if you don't have a tube tester. I'm guessing it's probably okay.


----------



## Priscilla Rose

Hey guys, 
I have a wa7, this is my first tube amp. I started to hear noise when I turned the volume to about 90% . Anything I should worry about?


----------



## Badas

priscilla rose said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a wa7, this is my first tube amp. I started to hear noise when I turned the volume to about 90% . Anything I should worry about?


 
  
 Hey, Welcome to the tube amp club.
  
 Noise is fairly common when you throw power through tubes. You kinda get use to things like that. Try high gain so you use less volume.
  
 Pops, crackles, hum and noise is part of tubes. They come and go. Usually things improve as tubes age.


----------



## versace

badas said:


> Hey, Welcome to the tube amp club.
> 
> Noise is fairly common when you throw power through tubes. You kinda get use to things like that. Try high gain so you use less volume.
> 
> Pops, crackles, hum and noise is part of tubes. They come and go. Usually things improve as tubes age.


 
 +1 my Sophia electric RP's pretty much scream at you when warming up.


----------



## joseph69

priscilla rose said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a wa7, this is my first tube amp. *I started to hear noise when I turned the volume to about 90% . Anything I should worry about?*


 
 Your hearing.


----------



## Priscilla Rose

Lol, I put it on about 90% just to test it out. I usually leave it at 9 o'clock in everyday listening.


----------



## Vigrith

^
  
 LOL, true enough.
  
 Quote:


priscilla rose said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a wa7, this is my first tube amp. I started to hear noise when I turned the volume to about 90% . Anything I should worry about?


 
  
 Happened to mine too at like 80-100% volume, I e-mailed Mr. Woo about it and he said it may be due to close proximity to other electronics, specifically the WA7tp seeing as tubes are sensitive and pick up noise quite easily. I moved a bunch of components out of the way and it was pretty much completely gone.
  
 Another thing to note is the noise is there regardless after having just turned the amp on - from my tests it seems to take around 30 minutes to an hour for it to be completely gone.
  
 This is basically a non-issue because you'll never be having the amp on 90% unless your source is somehow almost muted but still, nice to know there's nothing to worry about.


----------



## Priscilla Rose

I have a wireless mouse right next to it...


----------



## joseph69

priscilla rose said:


> Lol, I put it on about 90% just to test it out. I usually leave it at 9 o'clock in everyday listening.


 
 Much better.


----------



## Vigrith

priscilla rose said:


> I have a wireless mouse right next to it...


 
  
 Yea I don't know if that can affect it, I assume it can, might be best to e-mail Woo Audio support about that specifically. I had it right next to the PSU and both of the units literally 2 inches from my computer and moving the WA7 to the opposite side of my desk solved it (my computer case is on top of my desk).
  
 Then again I don't think it's detrimental to the amp or tubes' health regardless - if it's just at 90% volume I really don't think it'll influence the performance or affect the amp/tube's longevity. I'm far from an expert though, as said contacting Woo might be the best thing to do, just throwing in my 2 cents so that you don't feel like you have to stress it.


----------



## artemart

priscilla rose said:


> I have a wireless mouse right next to it...


 
 Turn it off and see if that fix's your problem.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

priscilla rose said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a wa7, this is my first tube amp. I started to hear noise when I turned the volume to about 90% . Anything I should worry about?


 
  
 90% volume is not normal listening level. Any amplifier would have some noise at nearly full throttle... It's like driving your car at 7,000 RPM.


----------



## nwavesailor

hifiguy528 said:


> 90% volume is not normal listening level. Any amplifier would have some noise at nearly full throttle... It's like driving your car at 7,000 RPM.


 

 Unless you drive a AP1 Honda S2000.............The redline on my S2K is 9000 PRM!


----------



## Shini44

The Local store received my TA-300B pair and started burning them in. he will ship it once they have 100 hours.
  
 i hope i will try them next Sunday


----------



## ken6217

I think u need 300 hours for break in


----------



## Shini44

the store does 100 hours, and i will do the rest later 
  
 also:
  
  


isquirrel said:


> the Tak's first started showing some improvement at 125 hours, at 195 hours I have them noted as "1st signs of magic" then at 280 hours they really began to change and finally settled down and were magic at 320 hours with no more changes noted from there. If you look back a few posts I posted an excerpt of an interview with the head of Western Electric, they are also well known for taking up to 500 hours before the full magic develops.


 
  
 so i will try to give it another 100 hours then started enjoying it ^^ 
  
  
 btw people any idea about the break in time on the Elrog 300B?? the new Elrog edition are at tubeusa, i might get a pair.


----------



## pervysage

Does Woo have a new amp coming out? They just posted this to Twitter:



https://twitter.com/WooAudio/status/752279435479437312


----------



## Badas

pervysage said:


> Does Woo have a new amp coming out? They just posted this to Twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/WooAudio/status/752279435479437312


 
  
 What the heck is that thing? It looks great.


----------



## Khragon

That's Woo new TOTL amp.  Anyone know the specs?


----------



## versace

khragon said:


> That's Woo new TOTL amp.  Anyone know the specs?


 
 From the picture, it looks to be balanced, but also seems to and this is just speculation as i have no idea, another tube headphone amp and speaker power amp all in one. i gather this because the far left nob has writing on it and the label above it says "functions" i see a 274b rectifier, with 2 6sn7's and what looks like and, i can be totally wrong about this but 4 6bl7 tall bottle's/glasses or 4 el34's. (again just speculation not actual specs)


----------



## Badas

versace said:


> From the picture, it looks to be balanced, but also seems to and this is just speculation as i have no idea, another tube headphone amp and speaker power amp all in one. i gather this because the far left nob has writing on it and the label above it says "functions" i see a 274b rectifier, with 2 6sn7's and what looks like and, i can be totally wrong about this but 4 6bl7 tall bottle's/glasses or 4 el34's. (again just speculation not actual specs)


 
  
 I wish Woo or someone else would make a serious amp without a rectifier. Like the WA6 but more powerful. Hybrids are the way to go for rectification. Rectifier really isn't doing much.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> What the heck is that thing? It looks great.


 
 You know exactly what it is. It's our next amp


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> You know exactly what it is. It's our next amp


 

 It certainly looks like a WA22 on steroids. I like it's form factor. Small footprint.
  
 It looks to have a lot of WA22 features. Balanced outputs etc. Similar tubes. They could be 6BL7's at the back. Maybe 6080 circuits with 6BL7's installed.
  
 Could the underneath bit hold the transformers?
  
 Certainly striking looking. Woo certainly knows how to make a looker.


----------



## Shini44

^ yeh seems like ,
  
 but doesn't look like that it will be an upgrade over the WA5-LE. guess new WA22 with new tech and separated Power Supply.


----------



## pervysage

shini44 said:


> ^ yeh seems like ,
> 
> but doesn't look like that it will be an upgrade over the WA5-LE. guess new WA22 with new tech and separated Power Supply.


 
  
 From the SF meet thread:
  


wooaudio said:


> WA22 Special Edition (WA22-SE) will be our new flagship fully balanced tube amplifier for electrodynamic headphones. Estimated release date is in the beginning of 2017, price to be determined. The San Fransico head-fi meet premiere is a prototype. We will finalize the specification in about two months.
> 
> In the center of the picture, it is the WA22-SE sitting between a WA5-LE and WDS-1 / WTP-1. The amplifier unit (top) is stacking on the power supply (bottom). It is designed to power a wide range of headphones to a new level exceeding the performance of WA-5LE.
> 
> We can't wait to show you.


 
  
 "Exceeding the level of the WA5-LE".
  
 Wonder if that means the price tag will also exceed the level of the WA5-LE?


----------



## Shini44

"new flagship fully balanced tube amplifier for electrodynamic headphones"
  
 oh i guess its not the same as WA5-LE at all?   electrodynamic headphones like Satx??? 
  
  
 "exceeding the performance of WA-5LE."
  
 i still think it will be different -.-'' unless somehow it can the same sound sig (but better) from the variety of tubes sets on the WA5-LE.
  
 so many questions ;')


----------



## Khragon

I got a bit confused on "electrodynamic" as well, what does that mean?  it definitely not an electrostatic headphones amp, and it got HD800 hooked up into it, so I think it's just another play on the word on Woo marketing part.  I agree that it will simply be different instead of "exceeding WA-5LE", once again a play on word to price this amp higher than WA5-LE.  Note, Woo didn't mention WA5 even though they are same same amp (with upgrade part), so my guess is this will price some where between WA5-LE and WA5-LE upgraded parts.


----------



## Shini44

*Disclaimer: *
 what i will write is just an assumptions and expectations based on woo audio's claim (or marketing) that WA22-SE will exceed WA5-LE's performance.
 also i don't expect it to sound different as in order to "Exceed" it shouldn't be completely different. 
  
*Upgrade?*
 as a WA5-LE owner who researched about it ages before i decided to buy it, what do i expect or want in WA22-SE to even consider *"*Upgrading*"*
  
 can the WA22-SE(use different tubes sets) do the same sound sig options (but better) of the WA5-LE when its paired with:
  
 1- TA-300B/TA-247 (best weight on bass,mids, extended treble)
 2- Elrog/GZ34 Metal , (SS like sound sig & Mullard mids)
 3- TA-300B/GZ34  or Elrog/TA-247 (best sets to enjoy fast music if the Taka set is slightly heavy & slow for your needs, EDM or J-pop etc)
  
 if yes, then i will start looking into it.... which bring us to the 2nd thing before considering it. the sound quality.
  
*Sound Quality vs WA5-LE*. 
  
 so Woo Audio claim that WA22-SE "*exceeds*" the WA5-LE, so i expect that the sound sig (if it provide all what WA5-LE have) to sound better, and not slightly but enough to make me say "yes i can notice and hear the difference and its better than WA5-LE" then i can say it exceeds the WA5-LE and maybe buy it.
  
  
*Tube options:*
 if the tube options on the WA22-SE are the same as WA5-LE then we are in luck as we can use the TA-300B etc or Mullard Metal Base etc. but it was different then trying to get the sound sig we have or love on WA5-LE will mean we need to search again into the tubes options that will provide what we want. i hope that won't be the case ;' )
  
  
  
 so TL;DR  if WA22-SE will provide all the options (same sound sig on my tubes sets) and also will sound noticeably better (worth it level), then i can believe what Woo Audio claimed and then i "might" buy it and sell the WA5-LE (depend on the price)
  
  
 so guys do you got the same expectations as me? feel free to post what you want (expect) the WA22-SE to provide for you as a WA5 owner.
  
 i am sure my wallet want the WA22-SE to sound different


----------



## leftside

"New flagship fully balanced amplifier". Told you @Badas that this would be our next amp


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> "New flagship fully balanced amplifier". Told you @Badas that this would be our next amp


 

 Yeah. Interesting stuff. I will be very interested in pricing.
  
 A WA5-LE beater is a bold statement. As it doesn't use 300B tubes. In saying that 4 6BL7 tubes could maybe compete.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> Yeah. Interesting stuff. I will be very interested in pricing.
> 
> A WA5-LE beater is a bold statement. As it doesn't use 300B tubes. In saying that 4 6BL7 tubes could maybe compete.




Very interesting indeed. We will see what this is all about soon. 

I don't know if I will "upgrade" my WA22 or not right now. I will have to have a good long listen to determine. I'm very happy with my WA22 as it is.


----------



## Badas

Had a weird thing happen in the weekend. I organized a HP meet. It was not fun and it should have been.
  
 There was that one guy there that ruined the freakin mood. Anyhow the moment for me was he was listening to my rig. Auralic Vega, WA22 and LCD-X. I asked him what he thought. Big mistake. He looked me in the face and said "well it sounds a bit crapty". crapty??? I wanted to kick his butt. I know we all should be a bit humble and take criticism gracefully. Which I did. However the experience has left me shocked and made me feel crap about my whole HP rig.
  
 Maybe I should get this new WA22 to make me feel better.
  
 * = i


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> Very interesting indeed. We will see what this is all about soon.
> 
> I don't know if I will "upgrade" my WA22 or not right now. I will have to have a good long listen to determine. I'm very happy with my WA22 as it is.


 

 It will be interesting to see if those back tubes are 6BL7 or 6BX7's. Woo has a record of letting users find the best tubes then taking up all the stocks. Once he has stock then designs a new amp telling everyone it is better and selling the new super tube back at 5 times the price. We shall see.
  
 I have run 4 6BL7's in the normal WA22 anyway. So if it is 6BL7's there is no need to change just for that.


----------



## musicman59

badas said:


> Had a weird thing happen in the weekend. I organized a HP meet. It was not fun and it should have been.
> 
> There was that one guy there that ruined the freakin mood. Anyhow the moment for me was he was listening to my rig. Auralic Vega, WA22 and LCD-X. I asked him what he thought. Big mistake. He looked me in the face and said "well it sounds a bit crapty". crapty??? I wanted to kick his butt. I know we all should be a bit humble and take criticism gracefully. Which I did. However the experience has left me shocked and made me feel crap about my whole HP rig.
> 
> ...


 
 Don't even think about him. It is not worth it. I have ran into guys like that at different places and most of the time they don't even have an idea of a good sounding system is.
  
 Now about that new WA22, that one is intriguing. I hope to see a closer to production level prototype at RMAF.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> Had a weird thing happen in the weekend. I organized a HP meet. It was not fun and it should have been.
> 
> There was that one guy there that ruined the freakin mood. Anyhow the moment for me was he was listening to my rig. Auralic Vega, WA22 and LCD-X. I asked him what he thought. Big mistake. He looked me in the face and said "well it sounds a bit crapty". crapty??? I wanted to kick his butt. I know we all should be a bit humble and take criticism gracefully. Which I did. However the experience has left me shocked and made me feel crap about my whole HP rig.
> 
> ...




What a prick! I'm sorry you had to deal with someone like that. I despise when people do this sort of thing.

You have one of the best headphone setups out there, so don't sweat it. He's probably just butt hurt because you have a superior system to his.


----------



## Shini44

badas said:


> Yeah. Interesting stuff. I will be very interested in pricing.
> 
> *A WA5-LE beater* is a bold statement. As it doesn't use 300B tubes. In saying that 4 6BL7 tubes could maybe compete.


 
 Tell me about it, i just spent nearly 6000$ on the WA5-LE and about to throw in 1300$-3000$ for the rest of the tubes which i need to complete my sets.
  
 then they come and throw in this bold statements -.-''  and wow no 300b tubes? XD  
  
  
 i guess it will be different and more of an upgrade to the WA22, yet i assume the price will be higher than WA5-LE (without upgrades).


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

badas said:


> Had a weird thing happen in the weekend. I organized a HP meet. It was not fun and it should have been.
> 
> There was that one guy there that ruined the freakin mood. Anyhow the moment for me was he was listening to my rig. Auralic Vega, WA22 and LCD-X. I asked him what he thought. Big mistake. He looked me in the face and said "well it sounds a bit crapty". crapty??? I wanted to kick his butt. I know we all should be a bit humble and take criticism gracefully. Which I did. However the experience has left me shocked and made me feel crap about my whole HP rig.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Buy for you, not the jerk ball....


----------



## Badas

buttuglyjeff said:


> Buy for you, not the jerk ball....


 

 I bought these today to make me feel better.


----------



## joseph69

@Badas 
 I wouldn't sweat it. I don't know if the person you're talking about is into this hobby…but if he isn't, I wouldn't expect someone to just take a listen to any of my set-ups and say WOW if they don't know what music is all about and didn't have extensive listening time to evaluate which is why I never offer any of my friends who aren't into this hobby/music to hear any of my set-ups. If he is into this hobby/music, them he's just jealous and not happy for anyone no matter what because he is not happy with himself…bottom line! Enjoy what you have for yourself. He should also be reminded that if someone has nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.


----------



## Khragon

badas said:


> Had a weird thing happen in the weekend. I organized a HP meet. It was not fun and it should have been.
> 
> There was that one guy there that ruined the freakin mood. Anyhow the moment for me was he was listening to my rig. Auralic Vega, WA22 and LCD-X. I asked him what he thought. Big mistake. He looked me in the face and said "well it sounds a bit crapty". crapty??? I wanted to kick his butt. I know we all should be a bit humble and take criticism gracefully. Which I did. However the experience has left me shocked and made me feel crap about my whole HP rig.
> 
> ...


 
 What's your tube setup?  I wouldn't put too much weight on one guy comment, maybe he got a cold and couldn't hear anything that day.  Could be music not to his taste, there are many factors.


----------



## Badas

khragon said:


> What's your tube setup?  I wouldn't put too much weight on one guy comment, maybe he got a cold and couldn't hear anything that day.  Could be music not to his taste, there are many factors.


 

 The guy was a dork. He was trying to convince everyone that his Senny HD650's plus no name amp was the best in show.
 I could only handle taking a listen for 20 seconds. Sounded like nails down a blackboard. Which is surprising considering they were HD650's.
  
 It just chocked me that he would say that to my face. No people skills.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> I bought these today to make me feel better.


 

How are the Nighthawks?


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> How are the Nighthawks?


 


 I like them. Sound good to me straight out of the box. Definitely a keeper.
 I've heard they need 100 hours burn in. So I'm just using my phone to burn them. Sounds good from the phone.
 Some people say they are a little treble light. From a quick listen they could be. Time will tell. If they are I will just remove the fabric in front of the driver.
  
 Certainly the king of comfort. My cable on my LCD-X weighs more than these headphones.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Had a weird thing happen in the weekend. I organized a HP meet. It was not fun and it should have been.
> 
> There was that one guy there that ruined the freakin mood. Anyhow the moment for me was he was listening to my rig. Auralic Vega, WA22 and LCD-X. I asked him what he thought. Big mistake. He looked me in the face and said "well it sounds a bit crapty". crapty??? I wanted to kick his butt. I know we all should be a bit humble and take criticism gracefully. Which I did. However the experience has left me shocked and made me feel crap about my whole HP rig.
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL. I had an experience at work where a coworker compared his $35 USD headphones to my $3000 setup (I wasn't going to haul in my WA5 into work so it was a Mytek Stereo 192 and LCD-XC). He said he couldn't tell any difference. He elaborated that his wife worked in a music studio in her past and worked on some reputable artists albums, and they didn't have anything that expensive in their studio and that all this money spend is just stupid ridiculousness. I'm kind of jealous of him actually. Beyond his deafness, he only has to spend $35 to reach TOTL. That kind of pisses me off. So he didn't say my stuff sounded crapty but he did basically say I'm an idiot for spending as big as I did.
  
 Forget about other people's opinions. You arrived at your current position through a lot of reading and experimentation. If there's value for you and you like your setup then that's what matters. I still like my WA5. I'm upset with Audeze right now. I'm waiting over three weeks now to get my headphones back (driver failure). If they ever fail again I'm done with Audeze. They keep telling me they'll get me an update and blowing me off.
  
 What I really want is the quality I got from Yggy and WA5 that would slip easily in my pocket and have 12 hr+ battery life. I suppose the transportable WA8 is that effort. While that new amp looks cool, I'm also looking at my empty wallet like, who cares?! I hope it's not really a WA5 killer cause then I'll be sad LOL. Maybe Woo would let me trade in for an upgrade if that were the case? I wonder if that new amp would sound better with TSRP 6(C or F)8g?... I bet it would.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> LOL. I had an experience at work where a coworker compared his $35 USD headphones to my $3000 setup (I wasn't going to haul in my WA5 into work so it was a Mytek Stereo 192 and LCD-XC). He said he couldn't tell any difference. He elaborated that his wife worked in a music studio in her past and worked on some reputable artists albums, and they didn't have anything that expensive in their studio and that all this money spend is just stupid ridiculousness. I'm kind of jealous of him actually. Beyond his deafness, he only has to spend $35 to reach TOTL. That kind of pisses me off. So he didn't say my stuff sounded crapty but he did basically say I'm an idiot for spending as big as I did.
> 
> Forget about other people's opinions. You arrived at your current position through a lot of reading and experimentation. If there's value for you and you like your setup then that's what matters. I still like my WA5. I'm upset with Audeze right now. I'm waiting over three weeks now to get my headphones back (driver failure). If they ever fail again I'm done with Audeze. They keep telling me they'll get me an update and blowing me off.
> 
> What I really want is the quality I got from Yggy and WA5 that would slip easily in my pocket and have 12 hr+ battery life. I suppose the transportable WA8 is that effort. While that new amp looks cool, I'm also looking at my empty wallet like, who cares?! I hope it's not really a WA5 killer cause then I'll be sad LOL. Maybe Woo would let me trade in for an upgrade if that were the case? I wonder if that new amp would sound better with TSRP 6(C or F)8g?... I bet it would.




Yeah! I brushed off the idiot. Just annoying when I put in all the effort for the meet. 

Sorry to hear about your Audeze issue. It is not good. I've been lucky so far with no driver issues. Driver issues is partly why I own 2 Audeze HP's. 
I doubt the new Woo amp is a WA5 beater. Just marketing stuff. 300B tubes are difficult to beat. So don't worry about it.

New NightHawk HP's are impressive. Very holographic. Dark tint tho. Treble detail hunters would hate them. Audeze owners will like. So holographic I don't think a tube amp is nessary.


----------



## a1uc

pervysage said:


> Does Woo have a new amp coming out? They just posted this to Twitter:
> 
> Dang I was just going to pull the trigger on a WA5 LE now I feel maybe I should wait
> 
> ...


----------



## Shini44

We don't know if WA22-SE will sound better than WA5-LE yet  
  
 anyone going to the meeting? bring your best tubes and test them there


----------



## HiFiGuy528

musicman59 said:


> Don't even think about him. It is not worth it. I have ran into guys like that at different places and most of the time they don't even have an idea of a good sounding system is.
> 
> Now about that new WA22, that one is intriguing. I hope to see a closer to production level prototype at RMAF.


 
  
 We will have features and look finalized by RMAF this year. Our engineers will continuously work on the performance leading up to official release in early 2017. If you're coming to the S.F. meet this weekend or RMAF, bring your favorite hps to try out WA22-SE (prototype).


----------



## musicman59

hifiguy528 said:


> We will have features and look finalized by RMAF this year. Our engineers will continuously work on the performance leading up to official release in early 2017. If you're coming to the S.F. meet this weekend or RMAF, bring your favorite hps to try out WA22-SE (prototype).


 
 I will see you at RMAF Mike!


----------



## phase0

hifiguy528 said:


> We will have features and look finalized by RMAF this year. Our engineers will continuously work on the performance leading up to official release in early 2017. If you're coming to the S.F. meet this weekend or RMAF, bring your favorite hps to try out WA22-SE (prototype).


 
  
 Will see you at RMAF. Can we get a massage attachment too? It would be a headfi first. While relaxing to the soothing sounds the amp also gives you a physical massage along with the ear candy (unless you listen to metal and then maybe it could shake you violently).


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> I like them. Sound good to me straight out of the box. Definitely a keeper.
> I've heard they need 100 hours burn in. So I'm just using my phone to burn them. Sounds good from the phone.
> Some people say they are a little treble light. From a quick listen they could be. Time will tell. If they are I will just remove the fabric in front of the driver.
> 
> Certainly the king of comfort. My cable on my LCD-X weighs more than these headphones.


 
  
 Very intriguing.  I like lighter headphones.  Are they good for portable use?  They look somewhat compact.


----------



## jerick70

I got these in the mail yesterday.  I've been wanting to try a pair for years. I've finally gotten around to purchasing a pair.  I'm really impressed so far paired with the WA22.


----------



## Shini44

i got HE-6 as well, its legendary when driven and powered <3 also check the HE-6 mods, a game changer for real. mine is on the open grill mod.


----------



## jerick70

shini44 said:


> i got HE-6 as well, its legendary when driven and powered <3 also check the HE-6 mods, a game changer for real. mine is on the open grill mod.


 
  
 Which amp are you running your HE-6s with?  I have an HE-Adapter on the way so I can try them with my speaker amps.  I'll have a look at the mods too.  I always like DYI projects.


----------



## Shini44

jerick70 said:


> Which amp are you running your HE-6s with?  I have an HE-Adapter on the way so I can try them with my speaker amps.  I'll have a look at the mods too.  I always like DYI projects.


 
 i used mine with the Job 225 speaker amp, it was epic but you got to be careful with the volume. i am running it with WA5-LE and it can drive it, waiting for my TA-300B so i can't comment on it now as i have the stock 300B which ofc isn't the best option ;' )  
  
  
 here check this post, it will show you the difference of HE-6 from WA22 till WA5-LE (fully upgraded) and other amps. my friend @punit is enthusiast HE-6 user and tested it with a lot of good amps.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/17295#post_11882370 
  


punit said:


> Quote:
> My ranking (based on amps that I have heard. IMHO & YMMV):
> 
> The ones I liked:
> ...


----------



## Badas

Instagram photo


----------



## Shini44

Abyess!! wow i guess they are trying to say that the WA22-SE will be able to drive the Abyess and HE-6?  guess WA22 owners who gonna upgrade will be happy for sure 
  
 when was the meeting again? keep us updated on that people


----------



## Badas

shini44 said:


> Abyess!! wow i guess they are trying to say that the WA22-SE will be able to drive the Abyess and HE-6?  guess WA22 owners who gonna upgrade will be happy for sure
> 
> when was the meeting again? keep us updated on that people




Price will be everything for me. If it is WA5 pricing then I'm out.

Where are the transformers on this thing? Is it a OTL?


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> Price will be everything for me. If it is WA5 pricing then I'm out.
> 
> Where are the transformers on this thing? Is it a OTL?


 

 Hybrid perhaps?


----------



## Stereomojo

Hi guys,

I need some advice from you experts. I'm looking for a dedicated headphone amp that would be considered "reference quality" that I can use as a reference when reviewing other amps, DACs, Headphones, cables and the like. It would have to have sufficient output to drive almost any headphone and have balanced and unbalanced outputs. I also have an eye towards value. Cost is an object. In my research here, I've read thousands of posts and have gotten some great ideas, but your opinions matter. 

 It seems to me that the WA22 might be what I'm looking for, but would you consider that "reference quality"? 

If not, can you suggest something else at, say, $3000 and under, even if it's not a Woo?? (Collective gasp!) 

 If you could state why, that would be a big help. I've learned a lot from everybody here at Head-fi and I'm looking forward to learning more. (I know… A reviewer that admits he doesn't know everything…)

 Thanks in advance for your advice. 

P.S. I know specific tubes are critical, but that's for another post.


----------



## ken6217

stereomojo said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I need some advice from you experts. I'm looking for a dedicated headphone amp that would be considered "reference quality" that I can use as a reference when reviewing other amps, DACs, Headphones, cables and the like. It would have to have sufficient output to drive almost any headphone and have balanced and unbalanced outputs. I also have an eye towards value. Cost is an object. In my research here, I've read thousands of posts and have gotten some great ideas, but your opinions matter.
> 
> ...


 
 Other people will chime in, but the one thing about tube amps is that the tube is as important as the amp, and they all have a different sound. So this might need to be taken into account.


----------



## jerick70

shini44 said:


> i used mine with the Job 225 speaker amp, it was epic but you got to be careful with the volume. i am running it with WA5-LE and it can drive it, waiting for my TA-300B so i can't comment on it now as i have the stock 300B which ofc isn't the best option ;' )
> 
> 
> here check this post, it will show you the difference of HE-6 from WA22 till WA5-LE (fully upgraded) and other amps. my friend @punit is enthusiast HE-6 user and tested it with a lot of good amps.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the references and information.  It's much appreciated.


----------



## Badas

stereomojo said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I need some advice from you experts. I'm looking for a dedicated headphone amp that would be considered "reference quality" that I can use as a reference when reviewing other amps, DACs, Headphones, cables and the like. It would have to have sufficient output to drive almost any headphone and have balanced and unbalanced outputs. I also have an eye towards value. Cost is an object. In my research here, I've read thousands of posts and have gotten some great ideas, but your opinions matter.
> 
> ...




For what purpose do you want a reference amp? Tube amps are not reference. Tubes colour the sound so it becomes preference. 

If I was looking for a reference amp it would be solid state that had the most neutral sound signature. Something that didn't colour the sound and allowed you to hear the music and headphones as is. The only one that comes to mind is the Violectric V281. However it has slight warm from neutral tint.

If you are looking for a reference tube amp then I supose the reference tube is the 300B. So you would be looking for WA5 or above. 
I own a highly kitted out WA22 and it is very nice however I would not concider it reference.


----------



## jerick70

stereomojo said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I need some advice from you experts. I'm looking for a dedicated headphone amp that would be considered "reference quality" that I can use as a reference when reviewing other amps, DACs, Headphones, cables and the like. It would have to have sufficient output to drive almost any headphone and have balanced and unbalanced outputs. I also have an eye towards value. Cost is an object. In my research here, I've read thousands of posts and have gotten some great ideas, but your opinions matter.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Stereomojo,
  
 Welcome to the Woo thread!  The WA22 is a very nice amp and I highly recommend it.  I own the WA22 and it has been my favorite amp to date. 
  
 On that note I wanted to answer your question about the WA22 being a "reference quality" amp.  It really depends on your definition of "Reference Quality".  If you are talking about doing studio work with the the WA22, this is absolutely not the amp that you want.  If you are talking about a good reference point to judge other equipment by this is a very good amp to do that with.  Reference quality is really a misnomer, in the audio consumer realm, to my eyes.  It's generally marketing hype.
  
 To recommend an amp to you we need a bit more information.  This hobby is very subjective and my likes are most likely different than your likes.  What sound signature are you looking for? What do you like in your audio?  Bass? Treble? Ect...
  
 Here's a good read on reference quality in audio:     http://www.head-fi.org/t/503481/what-are-reference-grade-headphones
  
 -Jeff


----------



## Stereomojo

Hmmm... I don't want to turn this into a tube versus solid-state argument, that was resolved decades ago for me. My stereo system consists of a tube preamp and solid-state mono locks. I think most people would tell you that solid-state has a distinct signature of its own.

In addition, the WA5 is $6000 which is double my target price. But your opinion is a valid one and I thank you for it.


----------



## Badas

stereomojo said:


> Hmmm... I don't want to turn this into a tube versus solid-state argument, that was resolved decades ago for me. My stereo system consists of a tube preamp and solid-state mono locks. I think most people would tell you that solid-state has a distinct signature of its own.
> 
> In addition, the WA5 is $6000 which is double my target price. But your opinion is a valid one and I thank you for it.




Go for preference then. That is the most important aspect. 

I'm a strong believer that there is no such thing as reference standard. Every studio that ever recorded a artist didn't have a standard. So they had different recording gear and sound very different from one another. So where is the reference??? Some artist like the Rolling Stones actually travelled to different studios around the world to record in studios they had heard and liked. So they would pick and choose sounds to suit particular albums. So all very different. 

I think the WA22 would serve you very well at a preference amp. It is very magical and lush. With many tubes available to tailor it to your taste.


----------



## Stereomojo

Thanks! You are right, of course, but bare in mind that reference is just that: a reference point. So, if I am reviewing something that's better than my reference, I can easily point out the strengths and weaknesses of how it compares to my reference. I can tell how it is better. That's precisely how I built my system over the decades. The question then is, how good does a reference amp really need to be to be considered a valid reference point. A $40 amp may not be the best choice, for example.


----------



## phase0

stereomojo said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I need some advice from you experts. I'm looking for a dedicated headphone amp that would be considered "reference quality" that I can use as a reference when reviewing other amps, DACs, Headphones, cables and the like. It would have to have sufficient output to drive almost any headphone and have balanced and unbalanced outputs. I also have an eye towards value. Cost is an object. In my research here, I've read thousands of posts and have gotten some great ideas, but your opinions matter.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think it was Jack @ Woo made a comment to me that the WA5 is reference level quality. I'm still not sure what reference means except that it always seems to go hand in hand with ultra expensive. It seems like on the higher side people would do WA5 or WA5-LE (minus the speaker outputs), or on the lower end WA22 as being really excellent but I haven't heard people describe it as reference.
  
 On the solid state side I like the V281 but people say it is on the warm side not neutral and I think reference would strive to be neutral. This is more wild guessing but the little bit I read about Schiit Ragnarok was that it didn't pop up that much on people's lists possibly because it is neutral.
  
 Back on the tube front sine people say Glenn's 300B is the best 300B system (I haven't heard it but everyone speaks highly of him). I'm pretty happy with my WA5 but it wasn't at all cheap. I'm still not sure the value for money was ever there but it does make me want to melt when I listen to it so I guess maybe it was worth the trouble.
  
 I'm super happy because Audeze overnighted my LCD-XC back to me. Just plugged them in and everything seem right with the world to me today. I should pick up another higher end headphone. The Audeze just destroy everything else I have. I have had to pick my jaw up off the floor a few times already since I got them back.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> I'm super happy because Audeze overnighted my LCD-XC back to me. Just plugged them in and everything seem right with the world to me today. I should pick up another higher end headphone. The Audeze just destroy everything else I have. I have had to pick my jaw up off the floor a few times already since I got them back.


 

 I'm glad you got your HP's back dude.


----------



## zeissiez

I think "reference" means neutrality, as opposed to colored sound. In my experience, it doesn't depend on whether it's SS or tube. My ECBA on a pair 300B is more neutral than many SS amps I heard, especially the Vioelectric amps. And it doesn't depend 100% on the tubes too. The WA5 is much more lush and euphonic sounding than the ECBA, although both use 300B tubes. IMHO, EC amps are more "reference", Woo Audio amps are sweeter.


----------



## Stereomojo

I just read Tyll's review of the Taurus MK 2. Sounds like he's been using it as his reference for the last year or so. Opinions? I'm going to check out the thread on it if I can find one.


----------



## Badas

zeissiez said:


> I think "reference" means neutrality, as opposed to colored sound. In my experience, it doesn't depend on whether it's SS or tube. My ECBA on a pair 300B is more neutral than many SS amps I heard, especially the Vioelectric amps. And it doesn't depend 100% on the tubes too. The WA5 is much more lush and euphonic sounding than the ECBA, although both use 300B tubes. IMHO, EC amps are more "reference", Woo Audio amps are sweeter.


 

 I don't think neutral is reference. Neutral is a sound tool. It is a level of sound. As I stated above recording studios all sound different. They would all have different sound frequencies. Same with recording equipment used. None would have been neutral. So neutral can't be reference.


----------



## Badas

stereomojo said:


> I just read Tyll's review of the Taurus MK 2. Sounds like he's been using it as his reference for the last year or so. Opinions? I'm going to check out the thread on it if I can find one.


 

 I was thinking of suggesting it. Taurus MK2 is slightly cool of neutral.
 Violectric V281 is slightly warm of neutral.
 The difference between them is actually a bit.
 Probably best to pick your poison between the two.


----------



## leftside

stereomojo said:


> Hmmm... I don't want to turn this into a tube versus solid-state argument, that was resolved decades ago for me. My stereo system consists of a tube preamp and solid-state mono locks. I think most people would tell you that solid-state has a distinct signature of its own.
> 
> In addition, the WA5 is $6000 which is double my target price. But your opinion is a valid one and I thank you for it.


 
  
 I've been using the WA22 as a "reference" to other headphone amps for the last few months. This $2000 amp + $1000 worth of tubes gets you a really nice amp!
  
 BTW - one of my stereo systems is also a tube preamp with two solid-state mono blocked amps.


----------



## phase0

Happy dancing enough today I wanted to share a pic. New carbon fiber headband on LCD-XC, same old WA5 and a Yggdrasil tucked away underneath.
  





  

  
 I screwed myself so bad buying a higher end setup. I can never go back to the normal end and be happy with it unless the performance we have now becomes common place (which would be awesome if it did!).


----------



## versace

zeissiez said:


> I think "reference" means neutrality, as opposed to colored sound. In my experience, it doesn't depend on whether it's SS or tube. My ECBA on a pair 300B is more neutral than many SS amps I heard, especially the Vioelectric amps. And it doesn't depend 100% on the tubes too. The WA5 is much more lush and euphonic sounding than the ECBA, although both use 300B tubes. IMHO, EC amps are more "reference", Woo Audio amps are sweeter.


 
 I agree, my ECBA is neutral and transparent, but my WA22 is sweet and lush. (i love them both)


----------



## reeltime

stereomojo said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I need some advice from you experts. I'm looking for a dedicated headphone amp that would be considered "reference quality" that I can use as a reference when reviewing other amps, DACs, Headphones, cables and the like. It would have to have sufficient output to drive almost any headphone and have balanced and unbalanced outputs. I also have an eye towards value. Cost is an object. In my research here, I've read thousands of posts and have gotten some great ideas, but your opinions matter.
> 
> ...


 

 In my opinion, the amp you are describing is the GS-X mk2.    http://www.headamp.com/product-category/amplifiers/balanced/


----------



## innocentblood

I took delivery of my WA22 about 2 weeks ago and last night I realized that one of the 6080 tubes is not sitting flush like the other one. in fact, it seems to be crooked as can be seen in the pics. as I am a first time user, I can't tell if there is anything wrong with the sound or not but it just doesn't look normal for the tube to be situated like that. I tried pushing it down gently but it wouldn't budge. being a first time owner, I don't know how much pressure to exert without breaking anything. while waiting to hear back from Woo Audio, I thought i'd post here and ask for any advice... thank you for helping me


----------



## Badas

^
  
 That's not good. The base should be down firm.
  
 Are the pins bent?
 I wouldn't use that tube.


----------



## innocentblood

badas said:


> ^
> 
> That's not good. The base should be down firm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 thank you for your swift reply. i can't see whether the pins are bent or not. I hope Woo Audio sees this msg & contacts my distributor in SG asap and helps me with this...


----------



## artemart

reeltime said:


> In my opinion, the amp you are describing is the GS-X mk2.    http://www.headamp.com/product-category/amplifiers/balanced/


 
 I would agree with reeltime.
  
 That is a very good reference amp if you want to save a bit you can find it here on the form used from $2,200-$2,400.


----------



## Badas

innocentblood said:


> thank you for your swift reply. i can't see whether the pins are bent or not. I hope Woo Audio sees this msg & contacts my distributor in SG asap and helps me with this...


 

 Carefully take the tube out dude. Don't use it.
  
 Don't break the pins either.


----------



## u2u2

innocentblood said:


> I took delivery of my WA22 about 2 weeks ago and last night I realized that one of the 6080 tubes is not sitting flush like the other one. in fact, it seems to be crooked as can be seen in the pics. as I am a first time user, I can't tell if there is anything wrong with the sound or not but it just doesn't look normal for the tube to be situated like that. I tried pushing it down gently but it wouldn't budge. being a first time owner, I don't know how much pressure to exert without breaking anything. while waiting to hear back from Woo Audio, I thought i'd post here and ask for any advice... thank you for helping me


 

 I would carefully remove the tube and the clean the pins with Deoxit Gold G5 or similar. If you didn't hear the tube crack and you have been using it for two weeks it is almost certainly fine. The Deoxit will give you a better electrical contact and the remaining traces act as a lubricant making it easier to install and remove tubes without getting them askew. Old tubes don't often go in new sockets without some misalignment on the way in. The less the better but this happens. You just didn't push the tube down flush. After you clean it you will find it will seat much easier. I have had a couple that caused me huge grief and every one worked out fine. One was the same tube as you are having trouble with a then new to me WA22. Tubes and sockets deserve careful handling but they are way tougher than most of us give them credit for. No need to sweat just yet.


----------



## Badas

A bit of humor before the weekend. 



I thought I would give this a try.

TAK 274B rectifier, Tung-Sol 6C8G drivers and 4 RCA 6C8G's as power tubes. 

The result. Well it works but the sound is not all that. Stax of bass but not much detail. 4 6BL7's is better.


----------



## jerick70

stereomojo said:


> I just read Tyll's review of the Taurus MK 2. Sounds like he's been using it as his reference for the last year or so. Opinions? I'm going to check out the thread on it if I can find one.


 

 Here are a few other amps that you may want to look at.  The Taurus MK II is a little to cool for my taste but so are some of the other amps I list below.
  
 1) Bryston BHA-1 http://bryston.com/products/power_amps/BHA-1.html
 2) Apex Peak and Volcano http://www.apexhifi.com/Peak.htm


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> A bit of humor before the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That looks nice.
  
 I wish WA5 could use 6BL7 To 6AS7 adapter.
  
 Also did any one try this adapters?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Tube-Amplifier-2C22-2C22-Replace-6SN7-Tube-Socket-Adapter-Suzier-C7-/281951474429?hash=item41a59e12fd:g:vrMAAOSwyQtV5rmU
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-6C8P-2C22-7193-CV6-CV3601-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter-/191551519526?hash=item2c995c3b26:g:LdUAAOSwyQtVlRuP
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-Dual-EL3N-TO-6SN7GT-B65-CV1988-tube-converter-adapter/191769639044?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37184%26meid%3D26ec8585d5bd41b2b67fb60358be7eb1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D191551519526


----------



## Stereomojo

jerick70 said:


> Here are a few other amps that you may want to look at.  The Taurus MK II is a little to cool for my taste but so are some of the other amps I list below.
> 
> 1) Bryston BHA-1 http://bryston.com/products/power_amps/BHA-1.html
> 2) Apex Peak and Volcano http://www.apexhifi.com/Peak.htm




 Thanks Jerick! I tried to read the apex review at six moons but between all the ads and the psycho writing, I didn't get anything out of it other than it doesn't do balanced and I have to have an amp that does so I can review balanced headphones.

I've done several Bryston reviews and the BHA -1 looks promising. I'm sure they'll send me one. 

 After reading the Taurus thread, it's out of the running because of dubious quality and worse customer support. Can't have that.

 Thanks again, Jerry. Very much appreciated.


----------



## leftside

The Bryston BHA-1 is a great amp. I had to do a lot of A/B listening compared to the WA22 (with high-end tubes)  before I started to notice the subtle differences.


----------



## jerick70

stereomojo said:


> Thanks Jerick! I tried to read the apex review at six moons but between all the ads and the psycho writing, I didn't get anything out of it other than it doesn't do balanced and I have to have an amp that does so I can review balanced headphones.
> 
> I've done several Bryston reviews and the BHA -1 looks promising. I'm sure they'll send me one.
> 
> ...




If you prefer the tube sound I would go the WA22 route. I do. I've tried SS kit and always end up back in the tube realm. 

The Bryston gets high praise from Phil @ enjoythemusic.com. He picks it over the WA22 in his shootout review in 12/2012. 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1212/headphone_amplifier_shootout.htm


----------



## artemart

Hey guys I been doing a lot of research about TA-300B and I can not find how long will they last only thing I have seen that it will easily get to 10,000 hours. Does any one know the actual number?


----------



## jerick70

artemart said:


> Hey guys I been doing a lot of research about TA-300B and I can not find how long will they last only thing I have seen that it will easily get to 10,000 hours. Does any one know the actual number?




According to western electric they have a 40,000 hour average lifespan.

http://www.westernelectric.com/support/faq.html


----------



## artemart

jerick70 said:


> According to western electric they have a 40,000 hour average lifespan.
> 
> http://www.westernelectric.com/support/faq.html


 
 Thank you for your reply I guess this leads to another question as what is the failure rate of this tube? I am asking this because I am thinking about buying a pair.


----------



## jerick70

artemart said:


> Thank you for your reply I guess this leads to another question as what is the failure rate of this tube? I am asking this because I am thinking about buying a pair.


 
  
 I need to correct what I quoted on life expectancy.  You are talking about the Takatsuki TA-300b not the Western Electric WE300b.  This makes a big difference.  Takatsuki quotes 5000 hours average lifetime of their 300b tubes.  This can very greatly depending on which amp you are running them in and how hard you run them. Environmental conditions, and power quality can make a difference too.     
  
 Here is a link where I found the quoted lifetime from Takatsuki - https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/prefered-300b-tubes-for-canary-amplifiers


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I need to correct what I quoted on life expectancy.  You are talking about the Takatsuki TA-300b not the Western Electric WE300b.  This makes a big difference.  Takatsuki quotes 5000 hours average lifetime of their 300b tubes.  This can very greatly depending on which amp you are running them in and how hard you run them. Environmental conditions, and power quality can make a difference too.
> 
> Here is a link where I found the quoted lifetime from Takatsuki - https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/prefered-300b-tubes-for-canary-amplifiers




Simon tested a set that had been used for 4000 hours in his WA234 and he said they tested as new. He suspected that the TAKs would last as long as the Western Electrics.


----------



## Shini44

my TA-300B will be here today, store gave them 70 hours burn in  guess it won't sound bad at least XD
  
 will try them then resume the burn in, man will be sometime before it reach 320 hours ;' )


----------



## leftside

Any reports yet on the WA22 SE from the San Fran meetup? I'm betting it sounds like a WA22 with 4 6BL7's, but quieter.


----------



## jerick70

leftside said:


> Any reports yet on the WA22 SE from the San Fran meetup? I'm betting it sounds like a WA22 with 4 6BL7's, but quieter.




Unfortunately I didn't go to the SF meet. But there is a member on the meet impressions thread that gives a short impression of the WA22SE. It's in post #32 on the thread.

$5k estimated price. Ouch! My wallet is screaming bloody murder.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/814341/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-impressions-thread-july-16-2016/30


----------



## leftside

It might be a few years until I get one then


----------



## Badas

$5K 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That's me out. Happy with what I've got.


----------



## Stereomojo

Interesting experience with a "reference" last night. Went to a wine tasting, 50 fine wines. I went to the first table and asked the host which was the finest (not the most expensive - and it wasn't) red at the tasting.  She poured a small sample. I explained I was going to use it as a reference by which to judge the other wines and judge for myself.. She thought that was a great idea. I went back about 20 minutes later when there was a small line. She was pouring the same wine and telling people to "use this as a reference so you can better judge for yourself". As the night went on, people were saying that they were using that wine as a reference and the wine they were tasting compared and went on to describe the differences. 
  
 Interesting, yes?


----------



## Stereomojo

badas said:


> $5K
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good for you Badas!


----------



## Badas

stereomojo said:


> Interesting experience with a "reference" last night. Went to a wine tasting, 50 fine wines. I went to the first table and asked the host which was the finest (not the most expensive - and it wasn't) red at the tasting.  She poured a small sample. I explained I was going to use it as a reference by which to judge the other wines and judge for myself.. She thought that was a great idea. I went back about 20 minutes later when there was a small line. She was pouring the same wine and telling people to "use this as a reference so you can better judge for yourself". As the night went on, people were saying that they were using that wine as a reference and the wine they were tasting compared and went on to describe the differences.
> 
> Interesting, yes?


 

 Yes. Very interesting. Best to set a standard first.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> $5K :eek:
> 
> That's me out. Happy with what I've got.




I'm with you Badas. Woo may lower the price on the WA5-LE after they release this. I may look there if they do.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I'm with you Badas. Woo may lower the price on the WA5-LE after they release this. I may look there if they do.


 

 You are probably like me. One you kit out a WA22 with nice tubes and it is sounding real good then who cares about other tube amps?
 I'm real happy with how my WA22 is sounding now. So why change?


----------



## ru4music

stereomojo said:


> Interesting experience with a "reference" last night. Went to a wine tasting, 50 fine wines. I went to the first table and asked the host which was the finest (not the most expensive - and it wasn't) red at the tasting.  She poured a small sample. I explained I was going to use it as a reference by which to judge the other wines and judge for myself.. She thought that was a great idea. I went back about 20 minutes later when there was a small line. She was pouring the same wine and telling people to "use this as a reference so you can better judge for yourself". As the night went on, people were saying that they were using that wine as a reference and the wine they were tasting compared and went on to describe the differences.
> 
> Interesting, yes?


 

 Yes!  But what was the "reference" red wine?  And how did it hold up against testing against all the others?
  
 It's interesting that a "reference" system is one that can be used to compare (relatively) to others, but not necessarily the best in all categories.


----------



## Shini44

so any info about WA5-LE vs WA22-SE???  also i assume it will cost more than 5k USD as it will need (to show full potential) their finest tube sets.
  
 which might come around 2000-4000$ just like how it is on the WA5-LE and Taka set.
  
  
 WA5-LE and best tubes = ~8000$ (without internal upgrade)
  
 WA22-SE and best tubes? = ~ ..... i am sure it will be a crazy number even for me :' )
  
  
 one day woo audio will be for rich people, not users with good jobs :' )
  
  
 anyway i started to doubt that WA22-SE fully upgraded (in case the tube options will be expensive like WA5-LE) to justify the price vs WA5-LE fully upgraded.


----------



## Badas

shini44 said:


> so any info about WA5-LE vs WA22-SE???  also i assume it will cost more than 5k USD as it will need (to show full potential) their finest tube sets.
> 
> which might come around 2000-4000$ just like how it is on the WA5-LE and Taka set.
> 
> ...




I really don't think WA5-LE owners have to be worried about the WA22-SE sounding better.
If it is 6BL7 power tubes that the WA22-SE is using then the power tubes are not going to beat 300B's. 4 6BL7's get close but not better. 

My WA22 uses 4 6BL7's and I listen to Tony's 300B amp semi regularly. To my ears 300B's bring a lot of extra everything to the mix.


----------



## Shini44

badas said:


> I really don't think WA5-LE owners have to be worried about the WA22-SE sounding better.


 
 so i guess 5k$ + few not this expensive tubes? is what WA22-SE will buyers got to spend?
  
  
 not bad i guess as WA5-LE users need at least 7-8k$ to make WA5-LE reach the full potential. 
  
  
 just bought WA5-LE you know. was worried XD  i spent like 6300$  and no TA-247 yet, although i think i don't need it.


----------



## Badas

shini44 said:


> so i guess 5k$ + few not this expensive tubes? is what WA22-SE will buyers got to spend?
> 
> 
> not bad i guess as WA5-LE users need at least 7-8k$ to make WA5-LE reach the full potential.
> ...




I think the WA22-SE at $5K is going to be a hard sell.
Especially when the standard WA22 is $2K and can also run 4 6BL7 tubes.


----------



## Shini44

no idea why woo audio made it 5000$ , maybe they have a lot of people who will buy cause they think latest/higher in price = better?  guess their marketing is working. i mean look at JH audio for example, not the best (IMO) but a lot think it is because of the price and how famous it is.
  
  
  
 btw people planing to burn in the TA-300B on the WA5-LE v2
  
 so 8-9 hours then 1 hour break? then resume for a 2nd session? each day.
  
 i recall maximum is 10 hours right? 
  
  
 Update: oh it is 8-10 hours,
  
 checking on the amp from time to time ofc


----------



## phase0

Re: WA22-SE looking forward to more impressions. I'm too invested in my WA5 I doubt I would shift gear. If I got rid of the WA5 I would probably be exiting tube amps completely. I'm hoping the WA22-SE is worth $5k to people and that it sounds that good. If it can be beat by a WA22 or it comes very close at a much cheaper rate running 4 6BL7 then I would expect most who are reading this thread and shopping would go for the cheaper option. I'll get the change to hear it in a couple month.
  
@Shini44 with 70 hrs burnin on your 300B what is your initial impression? Just curious as I have heard other comments that they are kind of crappy until they're fully burned in which would be the 300-500 hour mark. When I was burning in my EML 300B I run at 4 hrs and take a break for a couple hours. At least in the info supplied from EML labs they said it's better on those tubes. I suppose if it's not mentioned with the TA300B then you're fine running 8-10 hrs at a stretch.
  
 Anyone picked up the new revision of the Elrogs yet? Would be curious to hear impressions here. I suppose really the main issue is did they fix the short life span issues? and that can't be answered except in time.


----------



## Khragon

I'm running the new Elrog now on my Glenn 300B, I'll report back if there's any problem.


----------



## Shini44

phase0 said:


> @Shini44 with 70 hrs burnin on your 300B what is your initial impression? Just curious as I have heard other comments that they are kind of crappy until they're fully burned in which would be the 300-500 hour mark. When I was burning in my EML 300B I run at 4 hrs and take a break for a couple hours. At least in the info supplied from EML labs they said it's better on those tubes. I suppose if it's not mentioned with the TA300B then you're fine running 8-10 hrs at a stretch.


 
  
*Equipment:*
 Hugo TT DAC, and HE-6. Rectifier tubes: Mullard gz34 metal base. 
  
*Disclaimer:*
 i was running job 225 speaker amp before the WA5-LE so i don't expect to be wowed until the burn in is completed (320 hours)
  
*First impressions:*
  
 as i had only one session (5-6 hours) i still think that the brain (regardless the burn in time) need time to adjust to the sound. specially the mids, as they won't sound as smooth, dense and liquid like on the first session. first session on 70 hours TA-300B isn't something super
  
 the mids feels thin or not with full body but this is the case with any tube on the 1st session (Brimar 5gzy for example) the sound stage isn't opened yet. the bass punch still not super and the speed isn't the best either. the Treble lack the air (i am a Treble head) and don't feel fully extended yet. but again a lot said that this tube sound not so high end on its first 200 hours at least. 
  
*TL;DR*  its not bad, its not super, yet not making me moved or excited with my J-pop. so definitely need like extra 250 hours.
  
*The potential:*
* *
 while its seemed good, i felt like the tube is showing me a glimpse of its potential, yes it is not convincing atm but its like getting in a spar or a friendly boxing match while what is waiting in the end or long run is a furies title match were the real deal will be shown.
  
*PS:* sorry about the long answer, i felt like typing what i think since the pair cost 1800$ or something and few people want extra details.
  
  


khragon said:


> I'm running the new Elrog now on my Glenn 300B, I'll report back if there's any problem.


 
 how long does Elrog need before they break in??? 200 hours?? also you got them from tube usa right? or? their latest patch arrived just after i bought the TA-300B ;' ) ouch.
  
 keep us updated please <3  i will a buy a pair sometime later as well.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> You are probably like me. One you kit out a WA22 with nice tubes and it is sounding real good then who cares about other tube amps?
> I'm real happy with how my WA22 is sounding now. So why change?




If the price was reasonable I would look at the WA22SE. $5k+ plus tubes isn't reasonable.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> My WA22 uses 4 6BL7's and I listen to Tony's 300B amp semi regularly. To my ears 300B's bring a lot of extra everything to the mix.


 

 Have you recently changed your mind? I thought you said the two amps sounded very close?


----------



## Khragon

I got mine after 3 months wait for the RMA from the first purchase from trueaudiophile.


----------



## Shini44

jerick70 said:


> If the price was reasonable I would look at the WA22SE. $5k+ plus tubes isn't reasonable.


 
 i had WA7, then WA7tp and now WA5-LE v2
  
 if its something i know about woo audio and stock tubes,  its that the stock tubes are so so bad (IMO) compared to the next upgrade option (100$ on WA7 and 330-660$ on WA5-LE)
  
 some people might be happy with what they hear but when they switch to the next tube they are shocked by the difference most of the time if not always.
  
  
 so never expect to buy a woo audio product and not to be spending on tubes later on, from 100-200$ at least. 
  
 tubes amp shine and scale a lot with the better tubes. 
  


khragon said:


> I got mine after 3 months wait for the RMA from the first purchase from trueaudiophile.


  
 its the new edition right? did you ask about how better they are compared the 1st patch? which had many fail on different occasions ;' )  at least two tubes on head-fi alone.
  
 i think they look with different base as well. feel free to share some photos for the base etc. and to post impressions over time >=)


----------



## Vigrith

shini44 said:


> i had WA7, then WA7tp and now WA5-LE v2
> 
> if its something i know about woo audio and stock tubes,  its that the stock tubes are so so bad (IMO) compared to the next upgrade option (100$ on WA7 and 330-660$ on WA5-LE)
> 
> some people might be happy with what they hear but when they switch to the next tube they are shocked by the difference most of the time if not always.


 
  
 After reading about as many reviews as there are available on the internet I was under the impression the WA7 stocks are warmer sounding while still being fairly competitive in comparison to the gold Electro Harmonix upgrades - would you say this is inaccurate? I've had my WA7 for going up at about two months now and I've considered buying the $100 upgrades as they are cheap but seeing as I own a couple bright/treble emphasized headphones that I find benefit from some extra "tube magic" I've postponed the idea and stuck with the stocks (and just used other amps with less revealing/sharp cans).
  
 You seem to have vast tube experience which I absolutely do not so if you deem them much better all things considered I'll buy a matched pair right now as I want the best out of the amp.


----------



## Shini44

vigrith said:


> After reading about as many reviews as there are available on the internet I was under the impression the WA7 stocks are warmer sounding while still being fairly competitive in comparison to the gold Electro Harmonix upgrades - would you say this is inaccurate? I've had my WA7 for going up at about two months now and I've considered buying the $100 upgrades as they are cheap but seeing as I own a couple bright/treble emphasized headphones that I find benefit from some extra "tube magic" I've postponed the idea and stuck with the stocks (and just used other amps with less revealing/sharp cans).
> 
> You seem to have vast tube experience which I absolutely do not so if you deem them much better all things considered I'll buy a matched pair right now as I want the best out of the amp.


 
 wanted to note that the EH tubes are more on the neutral side, and yes you will notice the Treble there is different. you can say you will get extra dynamic.
  
 some people don't like their AKG headphones with the EH tubes. in the end its depend on preference and also the headphone. TH900/TH600 sound ultra good with the EH tubes and benefit more from them when you compared it with stock tubes. while headphones like AKG, and similar types might feel bright, not all the headphones are the same ofc.
  
  
 so if you want to avoid adding air to the Treble but still want a very nice upgrade then i highly suggest you try WA7to with mullard cv4003, they are the best tubes when it comes to "liquid, smooth and detailed"  best all rounder tube on the WA7tp but i assure you that the difference i day and night level, not just noticeable or small. i had mine paired with EH tubes as well and had RCA clear top as well. the EH + RCA was dynamic and bright. EH + Mullard cv4003 was on neutral/warm side but without lacking details or making EH tubes sound bright on some cans.
  
 but if you don't wana get WA7tp, the only option you might have is the EH tubes which again will sound bright or some cans.  yes its sad that WA7 alone don't have many options ;' )
  
 i live in Dubai and bought WA7 at least three times to experiment with the tubes. but ofc worth it as i always want answers.
  
  
 P.S: sorry about the long post, just wanted to save you searching time and give you the best available options ^^


----------



## Vigrith

shini44 said:


> P.S: sorry about the long post, just wanted to save you searching time and give you the best available options ^^


 
  
 Not at all, I appreciate the lengthy explanation - I try and research every possible option best I can so indeed you did save me a lot of time and I am thankful for that.
  
 I do not own the tube PSU yet, as it was my first Woo amp I wanted to see what it actually sounded like before purchasing upgrades, though I probably will get the 7tp once budget allows (have been upgrading more relevant parts of my chain for now).
  
 "liquid, detailed and smooth" sounds right up my alley so the 7tp with the cv4003 should be ideal, I'm fairly treble sensitive but as said if buy the EH for now and my brighter cans (HD800, T90) sound too harsh and fatiguing with it I'll just use another amp for them or use the stocks if I plan to do longer listening sessions with those specific headphones. No harm done. Though sad indeed that the actual WA7 doesn't have more options it can also be a blessing in the sense that I won't become obsessed with tube rolling (I know I would). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My other headphones are fairly neutral-warm and get a lot more use than the aforementioned 2 either way, HE-400S, latest rev LCD-2Fs, NightHawks, so they should pair well with the EH correct? Cool of you to mention the TH900 as well seeing as I've been looking to buy high-end closed backs for a long while now (along with the Ether C, though I think the TH900 will fit my sonic preferences better), they're beautiful.
  
 Thank you again for the detailed information!


----------



## Contrails

Wa22 SE for 5k? Ok, but for that asking price it should be able to compete with the other amps at the price point and not just in terms of looks.  Glenn's 300B and the Eddie Current amps comes to mind.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Have you recently changed your mind? I thought you said the two amps sounded very close?


 

 Nah!
  
 I said 4 6BL7's were the closest to 300B tubes that I've heard. Tony's 300B amp is miles ahead.


----------



## leftside

Now you're making it sound as if your amp is a "bit ****ty"


----------



## HiFiGuy528

shini44 said:


> one day woo audio will be for rich people, not users with good jobs :' )


 
 We still make WA3 ($599) and WA6 ($699). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Rockin' new tubes on my personal WA6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love this little amp!
  

  
 WA22-SE (prototype) currently outputs 10w @ 8 Ohms. It's a powerhouse!


----------



## pervysage

hifiguy528 said:


> Rockin' new tubes on my personal WA6.   I love this little amp!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




10w @ 8 ohms? Sheesh. What would you think about hooking up a pair of efficient speakers with speaker tap adapters? 

Obviously most usage usage would be for headphones but the possibility is nice.


----------



## leftside

10w @ 8 ohms? Very nice


----------



## jerick70

pervysage said:


> 10w @ 8 ohms? Sheesh. What would you think about hooking up a pair of efficient speakers with speaker tap adapters?
> 
> Obviously most usage usage would be for headphones but the possibility is nice.


 
  
 Is Woo going to offer a version with speaker taps?  You could run a nice pair of efficient speaker with that wattage.  What does the output look like with 6 and 4 ohms loads?


----------



## phase0

@Shini44 appreciate the thoughts. No need to apologize for length.
  
 Forgetting cost, it would be cool if the new WA22-SE offered speaker out. My weak 8W@8Ohms WA5 drives my Triton 3 tower speakers nicely. I don't feel like I'm getting the value out of buying into that option yet but I hook it up from time to time and it's a nice-to-have option. Before I touched the higher end of head-fi or knew how much stereos can cost these days ($500,000 USD ranges) I would have described my stereo as an expensive setup. I suppose it's actually at the low end knowing what I know now, but fortunately for me I still love it.


----------



## leftside

phase0 said:


> @Shini44 appreciate the thoughts. No need to apologize for length.
> 
> Forgetting cost, it would be cool if the new WA22-SE offered speaker out. My weak 8W@8Ohms WA5 drives my Triton 3 tower speakers nicely. I don't feel like I'm getting the value out of buying into that option yet but I hook it up from time to time and it's a nice-to-have option. Before I touched the higher end of head-fi or knew how much stereos can cost these days ($500,000 USD ranges) I would have described my stereo as an expensive setup. I suppose it's actually at the low end knowing what I know now, but fortunately for me I still love it.


 
 Low-end compared to the people who purchase $500,000 stereos. High-end to 99% of the population. Have you told your friends how much that WA5 cost? How about the EML 300B? If you say anything over a few hundred $'s they will think you are insane.
  
 I also have a couple of mountain bikes that cost me about as much as a WA5. Luckily I have a lot of mountain bike friends, so discussing cost with them isn't a problem. To be honest, I don't know of anyone personally who spends as much as me on audio gear - just my "Internet friends".


----------



## Shini44

leftside said:


> Have you told your friends how much that WA5 cost? How about the EML 300B? If you say anything over a few hundred $'s they will think you are insane.


 
 haha we are all on the same boat, family ask me oh much is that, i say oh nothing 200$ (depend on how fancy it look) XD
  
 many people refuse to pay or even believe that the sound will change, price justification etc and stick with earbuds, they are happy with it.
  
 but again you see them with one samsung and another iphone and they change both each year.....  the logic man -.-'' (at least here...)


----------



## phase0

leftside said:


> Low-end compared to the people who purchase $500,000 stereos. High-end to 99% of the population. Have you told your friends how much that WA5 cost? How about the EML 300B? If you say anything over a few hundred $'s they will think you are insane.
> 
> I also have a couple of mountain bikes that cost me about as much as a WA5. Luckily I have a lot of mountain bike friends, so discussing cost with them isn't a problem. To be honest, I don't know of anyone personally who spends as much as me on audio gear - just my "Internet friends".


 
  
 LOL true that. People do think I'm crazy. But it's infectious. Someone I know went and bought a nice little Schiit stack and an HD650. I've never heard any of this gear before and quite enjoyed it. The look of shock on his face when he heard my LCD-XC was priceless. That was plugged into his Schiit Asgard 2. I have a friend into stereo and vinyl that spends as much or more on that. That's it though. Someone else asked me to give him my cast offs. Oh these $350 Ultrasone headphones I have here? Utter garbage I'm just going to throw them away... "no no wait!". I get weak in the knees thinking about how much I blew to get to this point but on the daily enjoyment factor it was all so worth it. I want another pair of headphones and another set of 300Bs would be nice and I should be all set except all these stupid new product announcements stoke that irrational excitement in me.
  
@Badas ...challenge for you sir:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/814341/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-impressions-thread-july-16-2016/45#post_12728239
  
 That Felix Audio Elise... I think you need to step up your tube tree stack a notch. The four 6BL7s just aren't doing it for me any more.


----------



## Torq

phase0 said:


> LOL true that. People do think I'm crazy. But it's infectious. Someone I know went and bought a nice little Schiit stack and an HD650. I've never heard any of this gear before and quite enjoyed it. The look of shock on his face when he heard my LCD-XC was priceless. That was plugged into his Schiit Asgard 2. I have a friend into stereo and vinyl that spends as much or more on that. That's it though. Someone else asked me to give him my cast offs. Oh these $350 Ultrasone headphones I have here? Utter garbage I'm just going to throw them away... "no no wait!". I get weak in the knees thinking about how much I blew to get to this point but on the daily enjoyment factor it was all so worth it. I want another pair of headphones and another set of 300Bs would be nice and I should be all set except all these stupid new product announcements stoke that irrational excitement in me.
> 
> @Badas ...challenge for you sir:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/814341/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-impressions-thread-july-16-2016/45#post_12728239
> 
> That Felix Audio Elise... I think you need to step up your tube tree stack a notch. The four 6BL7s just aren't doing it for me any more.


 

 I'm sure the looks I get from most of my friends when they go and look-up some of this gear are about the same as I give those who's hobby is more video/home-theatre centric (something that I just can't excited about ...).
  
 One of them made the mistake of asking about the tubes in my WA5-LE ... and since I'd just installed my Taks ...


----------



## artemart

Have any one tried using this website to buy TA-300B? PriceJapan use the same website to buy their items but this one say free shipping but it does not say it will free ship to USA.
  
 http://www.amtrans.jp/SHOP/Tu3-300BT-500.html


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> @Badas
> ...challenge for you sir:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/814341/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-impressions-thread-july-16-2016/45#post_12728239
> 
> That Felix Audio Elise... I think you need to step up your tube tree stack a notch. The four 6BL7s just aren't doing it for me any more.






Those amps are supose to be amazing.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> Those amps are supose to be amazing.


 
  
  


phase0 said:


> LOL true that. People do think I'm crazy. But it's infectious. Someone I know went and bought a nice little Schiit stack and an HD650. I've never heard any of this gear before and quite enjoyed it. The look of shock on his face when he heard my LCD-XC was priceless. That was plugged into his Schiit Asgard 2. I have a friend into stereo and vinyl that spends as much or more on that. That's it though. Someone else asked me to give him my cast offs. Oh these $350 Ultrasone headphones I have here? Utter garbage I'm just going to throw them away... "no no wait!". I get weak in the knees thinking about how much I blew to get to this point but on the daily enjoyment factor it was all so worth it. I want another pair of headphones and another set of 300Bs would be nice and I should be all set except all these stupid new product announcements stoke that irrational excitement in me.
> 
> @Badas ...challenge for you sir:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/814341/official-2016-sf-head-fi-meet-impressions-thread-july-16-2016/45#post_12728239
> 
> That Felix Audio Elise... I think you need to step up your tube tree stack a notch. The four 6BL7s just aren't doing it for me any more.


 
  
 I've owned the Elise and it is a very good amp.  Not as good as the WA22, but very good for the price.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I've owned the Elise and it is a very good amp.  Not as good as the WA22, but very good for the price.




Nice to know. Really enjoying my WA22 at the moment. The tube arrangement didn't play nice with the new NightHawk HP's that I got last week. Hawks are the most lush holographic HP's I have ever listened to. With lush tubes it was too much. Solid State was working better. I've now got some amazing magic working now. 4 6BL7's and switching TAK274B for Brimar 5Z4GY has leaned up the sound a little and with Hawks it really works.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Nice to know. Really enjoying my WA22 at the moment. The tube arrangement didn't play nice with the new NightHawk HP's that I got last week. Hawks are the most lush holographic HP's I have ever listened to. With lush tubes it was too much. Solid State was working better. I've now got some amazing magic working now. 4 6BL7's and switching TAK274B for Brimar 5Z4GY has leaned up the sound a little and with Hawks it really works.


 
  
 How would you compare the Nighthawk to the LCD-X? Are you finding more enjoying from the Nighthawk?


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> How would you compare the Nighthawk to the LCD-X? Are you finding more enjoying from the Nighthawk?




Two totally different HP's. NightHawks have more clean bass. Stax of bass. Very holographic. You don't really need tubes with this HP. Tubes are nice but not nessary. Soundstage is about the same. Treble is not elevated. All the detail is there however it is just not enhanced. The closest to a speaker sound I've heard from a HP. Hawks need heaps of burn from new tho. Didn't sound their best straight from the box. They open up with time. 

My number one like on the Hawks is the treble. Or is it the holographics? Or maybe the bass? Oh! I give up.

I really can't think of anything that the LCD-X does better. It has more treble so depending on music it might sometimes be preferred. 

Hawks are the comfort King as well. They weigh nothing. Headband and the way the drivers are mounted is the work of a genius. Today I have been wearing them for 8.5 hours solid. One more hour to go before I pack up and I've had no discomfort at all. I can't do that when th the LCD-X.


----------



## phase0

Heh, makes me want to buy, no wait... hear them. There's a dealer here who might have them. I like the idea that they're great in their own right and stand in the same company as the LCD-X at a fraction of the cost. Something that can be a good backup or part time on the home setup and possibly travel in a portable setup.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Heh, makes me want to buy, no wait... hear them. There's a dealer here who might have them. I like the idea that they're great in their own right and stand in the same company as the LCD-X at a fraction of the cost. Something that can be a good backup or part time on the home setup and possibly travel in a portable setup.




Yeah they can do all that. Crikey I burnt them in off my phone and they sounded superb. I looked at all my amps and DACs and thought this is rediculus what do I need all this gear for? Should have just used a phone and Hawks. Luckily I came to my senses. They do scale up even better off great gear. 

I thought it couldn't get better than the LCD-X. LCD-X has been knocked off the top list tho. 

Technically the LCD-X is probably the better HP. Musically the Hawks are better. I don't care much for technically. 

Debating what to do with the Audeze. At least one should go. Not sure which one. My LCD-3's are the classic version and they do have more bass and gooey mid-range over the new version. Howewever the LCD-X is more accurate. 
It is likely I will do nothing about it as I'm too lazy.


----------



## jhljhl

Can you use Mesh plate eml 300b in the wa5le v1?


----------



## artemart

TA-300B tube is so tempting to me, but manufacturer life expectancy is 5,000 hours which I know most people say that it should out live it. I may just save up for WE-300B made in 1988 to get some thing that should last 40,000 hours.


----------



## Torq

artemart said:


> TA-300B tube is so tempting to me, but manufacturer life expectancy is 5,000 hours which I know most people say that it should out live it. I may just save up for WE-300B made in 1988 to get some thing that should last 40,000 hours.


 

 Never get into high-end vinyl replay ... life-expectancy of a good cartridge (or the stylus at least) is closer to 800 hours.  Easy to go through in a year.  A re-tip, never mind a replacement, for a moderately high-end cartridge (never mind a TOTL model that would be equivalent to, say, the Takatsuki tubes) will easily broach $1,000 ... often more for the really good stuff. 
  
 I do understand the issue though!  It's not fun to think about every listening hour in terms of dollars/per hour!


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> TA-300B tube is so tempting to me, but manufacturer life expectancy is 5,000 hours which I know most people say that it should out live it. I may just save up for WE-300B made in 1988 to get some thing that should last 40,000 hours.




A WE-300B won't last 40,000 hours. 
I've even seen a 100,000 hour C3G fail at the 100 hour mark. It's just manufacturer dreaming quoting extra long life. Tubes will either last or not. Simple as that.

From members who have owned both the WE and TAK 300B's they often say the TAK is the better sounding.


----------



## acguitar84

zeissiez said:


> The WA5-LE sounds much bigger than WA7+tp, bigger images, more holographic soundstage, thicker tone, more air between instruments, there's no comparison, WA5-LE is much superior


 
 Even with the stock tubes in the WA5-LE?


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> Nice to know. Really enjoying my WA22 at the moment. The tube arrangement didn't play nice with the new NightHawk HP's that I got last week. Hawks are the most lush holographic HP's I have ever listened to. With lush tubes it was too much. Solid State was working better. I've now got some amazing magic working now. 4 6BL7's and switching TAK274B for Brimar 5Z4GY has leaned up the sound a little and with Hawks it really works.


 
  
 The Nighthawks sound very nice.  Congrats.


----------



## Badas

acguitar84 said:


> Even with the stock tubes in the WA5-LE?


 

 Yip.


----------



## Badas

Have many of you tried these Chesky recordings?
 I just bought these in as a bit of a sample.
 Damn they sound amazing.
  
 If you have which ones should I grab next?


----------



## acguitar84

badas said:


> Yip.


 
 I want one!!


----------



## Badas

acguitar84 said:


> I want one!!


 

 Yeah! I would like one as well. However I would like some nice 300B tubes to go with it. Maybe the TAK's or Tony is saying he is getting excellent results with the EML.


----------



## Stereolab42

jerick70 said:


> If the price was reasonable I would look at the WA22SE. $5k+ plus tubes isn't reasonable.


 
  
 I heard this at the SF meet and regarding SQ it's every inch an equal to the WA5. Since Woo sells every WA5 they can make as fast as they can make them, the price is by definition reasonable for the market. The question is whether the WA22SE will justify the same price as the WA5 in regards to non-SQ features... since the features aren't finalized yet, judgment cannot be passed. However there is a large contingent of people out there who are hardcore believers in a full balanced stack... I'm not one of them, but this would be one of their TOTL options.


----------



## artemart

I just got a quote for TA-300B from amtrans.co.jp and it stated that I will need to pay import duties.
 Did any one know much much will that be for USA and how to pay it?


----------



## jerick70

artemart said:


> I just got a quote for TA-300B from amtrans.co.jp and it stated that I will need to pay import duties.
> Did any one know much much will that be for USA and how to pay it?


 
  
 It depends on where you live and how much you paid for the tubes with shipping and insurance.  Here is a website that will give you an idea of how much it will cost.  I'm not sure how accurate it is.
  
 http://www.dutycalculator.com


----------



## artemart

jerick70 said:


> It depends on where you live and how much you paid for the tubes with shipping and insurance.  Here is a website that will give you an idea of how much it will cost.  I'm not sure how accurate it is.
> 
> http://www.dutycalculator.com


 
 Thank you, that is much better then some of the other things I have found online.


----------



## jhljhl

Tried mullard ecc32- wonderful rich midrange - sounds full lush with hd800 on wa5le- with metal gz34 should try the we274 will open up the midrange and soundstage a bit.


----------



## leftside

ECC32 + GZ34 or WE274 is a wonderful combo. I was running the ECC32 + GZ34 combo last night. The only "problem" with the metal base GZ34 is they all seem to test as new, even though some have obviously been abused!


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> ECC32 + GZ34 or WE274 is a wonderful combo. I was running the ECC32 + GZ34 combo last night. The only "problem" with the metal base GZ34 is they all seem to test as new, even though some have obviously been abused!


 

 Yeah I bought a pair recently to save my we274... but had to go through ebay - matched singles. These last forever that's the good news. But not sure of the we 274 which cost a bit more so saving them a little. 50 hours of burn in they sound great. The gz34 are also burning in well - a transparent midrange but warm works well in the wa5le. I thought it sounded much nicer in the wa22 but I'm in the minority there. I also recommend the 596 tube.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Hi Jack,

I just received the Sophia Electric 274 b/n Mesh Plate tubes from you....right out of the box, amazing! Much better in every aspect of the WA5....coherency, clarity, bass, mid- range, treble. Clarity, and coherency are standouts right out of the box...look forward to hearing the difference as they break in. I did not think that the rectifier tubes would make that much of a difference. 

Tubes are the first run of the amazing Elrog 300b (no problems so far), Sophia Electric 6sn7's, Sophia Electric 274b/n Mesh Plate. Schitt Gungnir Multibit, using Kirlin xlr to rca's to the Sony Xa7es to the WA5. 

This combination of tubes in the WA5 is fantastic!


----------



## leftside

jhljhl said:


> I thought it sounded much nicer in the wa22


 
 I also think the GZ34 sounds great in the WA22, so we're both in the minority


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> I heard this at the SF meet and regarding SQ it's every inch an equal to the WA5. Since Woo sells every WA5 they can make as fast as they can make them, the price is by definition reasonable for the market. The question is whether the WA22SE will justify the same price as the WA5 in regards to non-SQ features... since the features aren't finalized yet, judgment cannot be passed. However there is a large contingent of people out there who are hardcore believers in a full balanced stack... I'm not one of them, but this would be one of their TOTL options.


 
  
 WA22-SE is still in development phase right now. We will have public prototype #2 at CanJam, RMAF in Oct. We're shooting for Spring/Summer 2017 launch. 
  
 WA5-LE/WA5 are relatively big amps in size. We wanted to make a smaller, high power, fully-balanced amplifier for those who doesn't have the real estate for WA5-LE/WA5. WA22-SE is much more desk friendly for the home or office.


----------



## Smileyko

I just pull the trigger right now on the WA7. First timer, new tube greenie on deck. After I got the HE-X last week I thought I might get tube up I am hoping for the best. A little nervous to tell you the truth. I did get the upgrade tubes so here we go.


----------



## Badas

hifiguy528 said:


> WA22-SE is still in development phase right now. We will have public prototype #2 at CanJam, RMAF in Oct. We're shooting for Spring/Summer 2017 launch.
> 
> WA5-LE/WA5 are relatively big amps in size. We wanted to make a smaller, high power, fully-balanced amplifier for those who doesn't have the real estate for WA5-LE/WA5. WA22-SE is much more desk friendly for the home or office.




Small footprint is a great idea. One of the reasons I didn't go WA5. I didn't have the space and I don't run power hungry HP's.

I had a look at the new WA22-SE pic on Instagram. Looks like TSRP drivers and 6BL7 power tubes. I noticed the Sylvania symbol on the power tubes. So they are likely Sylvania X plate 6BL7's.

How do you get 10 watts power out of those tubes? What tricks have been done?


----------



## zeissiez

Is the WA22-SE as tubey sounding as the WA5?


----------



## Badas

^
 Nice looking amp. Strange looking tubes on the side front.


----------



## jerick70

smileyko said:


> I just pull the trigger right now on the WA7. First timer, new tube greenie on deck. After I got the HE-X last week I thought I might get tube up I am hoping for the best. A little nervous to tell you the truth. I did get the upgrade tubes so here we go.


 
  
 Congrats @Smileyko.  The WA7 is an excellent AMP/DAC combo.  I really enjoy mine.  I would recommend buying upgraded tubes.


----------



## Smileyko

I bought these:Siemens NOS triple mica rebranded PHILIPS SQ E82CC 1969. Hope they FIT? I am all new to this. I have ZERO idea what I am doing. I am thankful for all your info and advice. Would you believe it I am just walking out to buy connection cable and a power cord.


----------



## Badas

Woo WA22-SE Instagram photo.
  
 Looks like it is using TSRP's as drivers. Also looks like some weird writing on the side of the controls plus a new power light.


----------



## Khragon

Not sure if I like that style of marking (on the knob) better than craving out the text on the front panel.


----------



## leftside

And Sylvania 6BL7's?


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> And Sylvania 6BL7's?


 

 I'm using Sylvania 6BL7's. I really like them.
  
 I would still like to know how they get 10 watts out of those tubes. Something fishy is going on here. Is it a hybrid and the tubes are a pre-amp?????


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> leftside said:
> 
> 
> > And Sylvania 6BL7's?
> ...


 

 You can get 10 watts out of one 6BL7 in push pull.
 I still have a amp I built when I was a child 11 watts  6SL7>6SN7>6BL7.


----------



## 2359glenn

Are you sure those tubes tubes aren't 6K6 or 6V6 much more power out of pentodes.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Are you sure those tubes tubes aren't 6K6 or 6V6 much more power out of pentodes.




Maybe. Nothing has been confirmed. Although one member sighted it at the meet. There was no comment on the power tubes used.


----------



## reeltime

jhljhl said:


> Can you use Mesh plate eml 300b in the wa5le v1?


 

 Yes, and they sound terrific.  Definitely in the top 5 300B tubes for the WA5 (any version).  Maybe the best bang for the buck tube as well.


----------



## musicman59

reeltime said:


> Yes, and they sound terrific.  Definitely in the top 5 300B tubes for the WA5 (any version).  Maybe the best bang for the buck tube as well.


 
 Yes, my original tube upgrade when I bought my WA-LE 5 years ago were EML 300B Mesh tubes and they are still going strong.


----------



## jhljhl

596 rectifier and c3g have a very nice synergy/clarity/warmth.


----------



## musicman59

jhljhl said:


> 596 rectifier and c3g have a very nice synergy/clarity/warmth.


 
 All the combinations I tried in my WA5-LE I though the c3g was a little in the lean side. I have the 596. I will try this combo.


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> All the combinations I tried in my WA5-LE I though the c3g was a little in the lean side. I have the 596. I will try this combo.


 
  
 I find this the best so far in adding a little more body/warmth.


----------



## koven

hi all, im looking to step up from my Vali 2 w/ either a WA2 or WA6SE, could someone possibly give me some cliff notes on how to decide between these two amps? im pretty set on getting a woo audio amp.
 im using optical from my PC to the new modi multibit. i currently have the T1, Hd600, AKG712 - next up is either hd800 or elear
 thank you


----------



## HiFiGuy528

koven said:


> hi all, im looking to step up from my Vali 2 w/ either a WA2 or WA6SE, could someone possibly give me some cliff notes on how to decide between these two amps? im pretty set on getting a woo audio amp.
> im using optical from my PC to the new modi multibit. i currently have the T1, Hd600, AKG712 - next up is either hd800 or elear
> thank you


 
  
 T1, HD600 are easy to drive effectively by either model. AKG K712 needs a LOT of power to reach its potential. We recommend WA6-SE + Sophia 274B upgrade tube for your collection of headphones.
  
 BTW, K712 is one of my top headphones. I own every AKG 700 series ever made.


----------



## eschell27

I'm in a similar situation. Just got some T1's (my new favorite) and my other goto hp's are HD650... want to upgrade from my Little Dot MK IV se to either WA2 or WA6se...Will be using with PC > Uptone Regen > DAC-19 10th Anniversary with Amanero....but thinking i will be getting a Singxer SU-1 to use the bnc/SPDIF input. As of now i'm leaning to a WA2, tubes TBD after some research through the WA2 tube rolling thread. Want to find a tube combo that will bring a little more clean tight bass power out of the T1's without losing any of it's wonderful midrange or crisp treble timbre goodness. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## wcsmd

Would suggest your next HP not be an HD800 or 800S. I have a new HD800S and a previous Audese L:CD3 which I use with my WA5 with upgraded Tat tubes and there is no comparison. The LCD 3 is crystal clear with excellent bass, mid, and treble presence. HD 800S although slightly better than the 800 still has annoying treble which overwhelms the sound. Bass is better than 800. My opinion only! I am aiming to try out the LCD4 but this is much more expensive. I also am using an aftermarket cord (Artisan Silver -- Silver Dream) which makes a significant improvement in the LCD 3. Make sure you try out the HD 800 or 800s vs the Audese before you buy. Good Luck


----------



## Badas

wcsmd said:


> Would suggest your next HP not be an HD800 or 800S. I have a new HD800S and a previous Audese L:CD3 which I use with my WA5 with upgraded Tat tubes and there is no comparison. The LCD 3 is crystal clear with excellent bass, mid, and treble presence. HD 800S although slightly better than the 800 still has annoying treble which overwhelms the sound. Bass is better than 800. My opinion only! I am aiming to try out the LCD4 but this is much more expensive. I also am using an aftermarket cord (Artisan Silver -- Silver Dream) which makes a significant improvement in the LCD 3. Make sure you try out the HD 800 or 800s vs the Audese before you buy. Good Luck




Is it the classic pre fazor LCD-3 that you have? If so that is the same as what I have. 
Love that HP. It has a gooey mid-range that I have not heard on other HP's. It can be very adictive. 

I'm thinking of letting go of one of my Audeze HP's. I have LCD-3C and LCD-X. If I do. It won't be the LCD-3C. Just too good and rare now.


----------



## a1uc

wcsmd said:


> Would suggest your next HP not be an HD800 or 800S. I have a new HD800S and a previous Audese L:CD3 which I use with my WA5 with upgraded Tat tubes and there is no comparison. The LCD 3 is crystal clear with excellent bass, mid, and treble presence. HD 800S although slightly better than the 800 still has annoying treble which overwhelms the sound. Bass is better than 800. My opinion only! I am aiming to try out the LCD4 but this is much more expensive. I also am using an aftermarket cord (Artisan Silver -- Silver Dream) which makes a significant improvement in the LCD 3. Make sure you try out the HD 800 or 800s vs the Audese before you buy. Good Luck


 I have a pair of HD800S / HE1000 / Aybss / I sold my LCDX and LCD3 F None of them came close to the Aybss . I power them with a SimAudio 430 HAD and just sold my modded WA22 and bought a WA5-LE V2 which I will have next week , The Aybss is just awesome


----------



## wcsmd

I dont know, how do I tell?


----------



## a1uc

You feel where speaker is it will feel like a vent ridges if yours are Fazor


----------



## a1uc

What tubes are you guys finding to be best in the WA5-LE  ?


----------



## artemart

Does any one know how long does 6C8G Jan Tung-Sol take to burn in?


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Does any one know how long does 6C8G Jan Tung-Sol take to burn in?


 

 If it's the round plate version then it's the same as what I have.
  
 I find that it sounds bassy and dark for 10 hours, mellows a bit after that, at about the 20-30 hour mark you get the signature it is going to settle on and after 50 hours + the treble sweetens just a little. At that point it is burnt in.
  
 The 20 hour mark I find it acceptable.


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> If it's the round plate version then it's the same as what I have.
> 
> I find that it sounds bassy and dark for 10 hours, mellows a bit after that, at about the 20-30 hour mark you get the signature it is going to settle on and after 50 hours + the treble sweetens just a little. At that point it is burnt in.
> 
> The 20 hour mark I find it acceptable.


 
 Thank you,
  
 I just got a pair and I got about 20-25 hours on it.


----------



## Smileyko

Dear Friends of WOO: I am here in Vietnam awaiting for my delivery today of my first tube anything ever!! The WA7 has landed in HCMC and I am just sweating this last few hours out right now. I might have to go get a foot massage just to kill time. I'm a little nervous to tell you guys the truth.


----------



## a1uc

Congrats once you own tube gear it's hard to do without , I've tried a few times and always find myself back


----------



## jhljhl

a1uc said:


> What tubes are you guys finding to be best in the WA5-LE  ?


 

 The best tak 300b and 274.
  
 c3g drivers, ecc35, tung sol rp 6sn7...sylvania 6sn7w...


----------



## Smileyko

Dear Friends of WOO:  Here is my impressions of my first 48 hours of the very first tube gear of any type which is the WA7. Please keep in mind I am a music lover impulse buyer that have bought all of my gear this year unseen unheard just from reading you guys and gals on Head Fi.
  
 The unboxing: Wow already, heavy box lands here at my house in HCMC Vietnam. Very nicely packed. Both extra tubes I ordered survived the journey from Long Island NY. I am very please with the way this baby came in to my little world here. I haven't even plug it in I am loving it already. While waiting for her to get here I have downloaded more the $800 worth of HD music from HD Tracks. Bought power cables from Nordost, Furutech eTP60 to clean up the power here in VN. I have Labkable of HK making me a super USB cable coming in tomorrow. To say I was READY is an understatement.
  
 The set up: This was more simple then I thought. Basic plug and play no fuss no mess. I am only going to use the stock tubes since this is my first experience with tube gear. Last year this time I was listening to most music on Youtube using just my PowerBook and the big sweaty in VN AKG K550 I thought that was just heaven. Why I got into Head Fi is the K550 was just way to hot for the climate here so I Google around and found you guys. I have since then bought a whole lots of stuff. So now the Woo with stock tube is what I will enter into another realm in sonic bliss.
  
 Back to basics:  I really wanted this sonic journey to be special for a tube rookie on deck. So I took away all the fancy after market cables and all my headphones returned to their original stock cables. With the new Hifiman HEX I have never plug them into their stock cables so I did an over night burn in on another set up to get ready for the moment of truth. I also started my listening with just the PowerBook and all the headphones straight. This gets me back to that little slice of heaven before WOO and tube. You know what? It all sounded kind of good to me. Nothing wrong with all the headphones and the Mac. YouTube really sounded good as I remembered it to be. Now the turn on and first sound from WOO and tube......
  
 I decided to not burn in at all and just turn on and play music with the new WOO. I can tell you all and I mean all of my music sounded different right from the very first second. It was alive, organic, rounded 3D, deeper higher farther I can hear into the music. While listening I can't stop touching the WOO to see if this baby is getting too hot? No, it's not as hot as the Mojo, it's just warm to the touch after one hour of music full out. I have read all these pages about the burn in. I did burn in all my other gear and YESSSSS they all do sounded much better after like the second month. I am only at the 48 hours mark and I had them on only half of the time so I just can't imagine what's up with this WOO after say another 10 days? I can't wait!!!
  
 Winners and Losers: With all things this world gives us there is always sun and rain. Here are my thoughts on all my gears I have tried with the WOO.
  
 Stock tube for the tube first timer is just fine. It's so good in fact I might never roll tubes for 2 month. That being said from what I have read things just gets better with the other superstar tubes in the market today. But different might not be better, just different. Stock cables are also good if you amp good. The Nighthawk stock cables sounded really great with the HEX and the PM2. The HEX stock cables sounded the worst of all cables. Maybe it's not burn in enough? All my after market cables fits all the phones except the Grado 500e, they all did very well.
  
 Losers: YouTube just will not sound good with the WOO and tube. But with let's say the Dragonfly 1.2 it's much better. Headphone loser in sound goes to the Nighthawk. This out of my 4 phones and one IEM had the worst sound and I don't know why? It had a strong resonate of some notes just jump out at you and it's not at all comfortable to my ears. Specially with large orchestral work like Also Sprach Zarathustra it's just too overwhelming to even keep listening. Now with solo piano work it's better not great. No synergy there at all. WOO and the Hawk says goodbye.
  
 Price vs Sound: My first Hifi gear I bought this year was the mid priced Grado 500e. My most expensive gear is the Hifiman HEX. Now with the 500e and the WOO, they get along just fine. I got the HDtracks album all the old stuff I used to listen to back in the days. On the old band America, Venture Highway this set up sounded in tonality just EXACTLY like the 8 tracks tapes we all had back then but now with Hifi gear. I can't believe my ears. I was transported to another era. I quickly switched to the HEX and nope, 8 track tape sound was gone. So what I get from this is cost is no real indication of enjoyment level. I just love that 8 track tape sound of the WOO and 500e.
  
 Surprised Super Star award goes to...... Shure SE535 LTD RED. I bought this thing at HKG, looks good to me at the moment, it's RED. Never like the sound, never like the feeling in my ear, it's almost unused just sitting in a dark spot in my closet. Since the WA7 has that little I want to say hole, yes, that hole that is made for IEM's. I decided to try that just once since I am burning in that very first day. I left them alone turned on real low and went swimming. After I got back I just decided to see if that RED thing I never liked was making sound? WOW..... Unbelievable wall of sound hits me between the eyes. The synergy of the WOO and 535RED is just awesome. You know when I listen to this thing with say the Mojo it's just way to harsh. Not musical, Dragonfly was even worst, too bright, shrill. Then of course I realize this 535 was never broken in as well. So I did a mini burn in overnight and I can tell you this is the very best in sound these last 48 hours. Now I will take things slow since it's all so sweet. Those big Mojo eyes are dark and I'm sorry about that. Sacrifice has to be made for the WOO and tube.


----------



## DogMeat

I'M IN LOOOOOVE
 Just received my nice WA2, pairing with my T's,(Both versions).
  
 NIIIIIIIIIICE!
  
 Excellent trade with Monsterzero for my Audeze LCD 2's.
  
 YAY!
 Perfect pairing with the Teslas.
  
 To the fellow above, Smileko;
 Just wait 'til you've got your gear run in a bit....
 Your experience will be STUPENDOUS.
 You'll be getting another Woo, before too long... if you can do it, try the Tesla T1's at some point.
 It just gets better and better.


----------



## Smileyko

Dear Meat:  I am going on the T1 thread now as we speak. I am an impulse buyer, never audition any gear before I buy. Hmmmm........... I can see the T1 Gen 2 with the WA7. You guys any ideas? Most Thankful D. Meat.


----------



## DogMeat

Hey Eschell!
  
 DO go with the WA2.
 Even the WA6.
 I also like the WA7 with the T1s.
  
 Unless you have balanced DAC or input that is truly balanced, don't WA22 it yet.
 I have been doing the WA6/T1 combo very very happily.
 I like the WA7 on them, but I think I liked the 6 a bit better.
 I like the 6 so much that I have 2 of them. Very nice for tube rolling,(and you don't need so many tubes, LOL).
 I tend to keep them set up with different pairings so that I can choose to use one or the other depending on which music I am listening to.
 The 6 is just such a sweet engine.
  
 Now the WA2.
 NICE, very clearly another step into detail that the additional power and set up offers.
 Spent about 3 hours listening to unaccompanied cello works on it this afternoon; flawless, present, PRAT like nobody's business.
  
 If you are doing T1's this is a dream combo.
 I won't be parting with the WA6....but this is an INCREDIBLE T1 pairing.
  
 Really.


----------



## DogMeat

I think I posted on that thread.
 Check it.
  
 ....or check _where_,(just in case I am wrong about which thread, there are SO MANY), I made my post about t1's as I did a comparison "review" of both versions of the T1.





  
  
 p.s.
 I prefer "Dog" to "Meat".
  
 LOL!
  
 no worries, man.
 Hope my posting about the comparison is helpful to you.


----------



## DogMeat

found the page for ya, dude;
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/776332/new-beyerdynamic-t1-2nd-generation/1575#post_12705708
  
  
 couple of pertinent remarks there.
 Hope it helps.
  
 -dog


----------



## jhljhl

1pcs 5670 396A 2C51 Replace 6SN7 Tube Amplifier Socket Adapter  
 Anyone know if these adapters would work on a woo wa5/le?
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-5670-396A-2C51-Replace-6SN7-Tube-Amplifier-Socket-Adapter-Suzier-D11-/281960489973?hash=item41a627a3f5:g:VkEAAOSw0JpV5re3


----------



## eschell27

Thanks for the recommendation!
  
 I am getting a WA2 to pair with my DAC-19 and beyer T1 gen 1 & hd650.
  
 Should be here next week sometime. Then time to save a little cash for a Singxer SU-1 and some tubes to roll!


----------



## fhuang

anybody has any experience with kr audio 5u4g or 274b?


----------



## artemart

Just making sure that this adapter will work with C3G tube in WA5-LE.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201487044932?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Khragon

Probably will not work, WA5 cg3 adapters are Left and Right specific.  Ask Glenn to build you a set or email Woo, they sell c3g adapters too, just over price.


----------



## artemart

Odd in description it say that it is made for WA5 amp. I just wanted to double check.


----------



## Shini44

*----->  * 
  
  
  
The Future of ELROG Tubes http://vinylsavor.blogspot.ae/2016/08/the-future-of-elrog-tubes.html
  
  
 new owner!! :O  glad he contacted me so i be able to pre-order Elrog 300B with the new base. will have mine by the end of the month, if things went well :3
  
 glad he took over, else the Elrog 300B would been done for it O-o'' 
  
 btw i asked the new owner about the new elrog and he said :"Filaments have been improved to be more robust. The new bases are made in germany"  
  
 guess this is a good news for WA5-LE v2 owners ha? 
  
 i also forgot to mention that the Warranty is 1 year now (up from 6 months).


----------



## Stegosaurus

Id rather have a pile of Schitt then a Made in China Woo!
Is there anyone out there as skeptical as I am? I'm talking about if Woo products are really made in the U.S. Audio Advisor has a MADE IN THE USA stamp on their catalog they send out. I know the chassis is made in China but thats never advertised. I have a Woo product and I'm pretty happy with it. I just hate being dupped into buying one because it was allegedly an american product. Wish the advertising wasn't so dishonest about it.
I actually had a go around with General Wu (Jack) a few months back over the issue. He avoided the question at all costs. I was pretty disappointed that he didn't deny that they were made in China. He said that the Chassis was. I actually had an older Woo product that had a Made in China label on the back. Jack said it was a fake. It wasn't. But he was cool enough to send me a new unit.


----------



## a1uc

shini44 said:


> *----->  *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Im in the market for some good tubes for my WA5-LE v2


----------



## a1uc

stegosaurus said:


> Is there anyone out there as skeptical as I am? I'm talking about if Woo products are really made in the U.S. Audio Advisor has a MADE IN THE USA stamp on their catalog they send out. I know the chassis is made in China but thats never advertised. I have a Woo product and I'm pretty happy with it. I just hate being dupped into buying one because it was allegedly an american product. Wish the advertising wasn't so dishonest about it.
> I actually had a go around with General Wu (Jack) a few months back over the issue. He avoided the question at all costs. I was pretty disappointed that he didn't deny that they were made in China. He said that the Chassis was. I actually had an older Woo product that had a Made in China label on the back. Jack said it was a fake. It wasn't. But he was cool enough to send me a new unit.


 

 Who Cares


----------



## Stegosaurus

a1uc said:


> Who Cares



I care or I wouldn't have posted it!


----------



## ru4music

eschell27 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation!
> 
> I am getting a WA2 to pair with my DAC-19 and beyer T1 gen 1 & hd650.
> 
> Should be here next week sometime. Then time to save a little cash for a Singxer SU-1 and some tubes to roll!


 

 Congrats!  I'm sure you'll love the WA2 with those headphones (I do!)


----------



## ru4music

shini44 said:


> *----->  *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Shini, how are those new Tak 300Bs working out for you?


----------



## Shini44

ru4music said:


> Shini, how are those new Tak 300Bs working out for you?


 
 still burning them in  4 days a week, 16 hours a day. i spend the weekend away :< 

 ~265 hours so far. will test them near 300~320 hours. can't comment yet ^^


----------



## jerick70

stegosaurus said:


> I care or I wouldn't have posted it!




I care too. They shouldn't say they build their kit in Brooklyn New York (Queens) if it isn't. It's dishonest.


----------



## Stegosaurus

jerick70 said:


> I care too. They shouldn't say they build their kit in Brooklyn if it isn't. It's dishonest.



I think so too. Very deceptive.


----------



## jerick70

This is what they say on their website at http://wooaudio.com/about/
  
 "Where many of their audio components including their output transformers are handcrafted in our own audio workshop, the research and design, quality assurance and final assembly of all amplifiers take place in New York, USA to meet Woo Audio's exacting standards."
  
 It sounds to me like they have some of their assemblies built elsewhere and then assemble them in New York.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> It sounds to me like they have some of their assemblies built elsewhere and then assemble them in New York.


 
 My WA6 was shipped from L.I.C. (Queens) N.Y.
 I aslo had sent my WA6 in for service to the same address.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> My WA6 was shipped from L.I.C. (Queens) N.Y.
> I aslo had sent my WA6 in for service to the same address.


 
  
 My mistake. I was thinking of Grado Labs.


----------



## jerick70

Where ever they build them I really enjoy my Woo kit.  Woo is my top pick right now for headphone amps.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> My mistake. I was thinking of Grado Labs.


 
 I thought you may have been thinking of Grado when you mentioned Broolkyn N/Y..
  


jerick70 said:


> Where ever they build them I really enjoy my Woo kit.  Woo is my top pick right now for headphone amps.


 
 +1
 I enjoy my WA6 very much!


----------



## ru4music

shini44 said:


> still burning them in  4 days a week, 16 hours a day. i spend the weekend away :<
> 
> ~265 hours so far. will test them near 300~320 hours. can't comment yet ^^


 

 What, "*no comment!*"?  Who do you think you are, a politician in government!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Interested in hearing your comments on how they pair with the GZ and Brimar rectifiers.


----------



## Stegosaurus

Hey, I like mine too. But being lied to is not cool.
 Again, Its advertised as being made in the US or Brooklyn in Audio Advisor. Check it out...http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WAWA3 But Woo doesn't do anything about the false advertisement.
 Jack said this unit was a fake, but it wasn't.  I sent this one in to Woo for them to "study" in exchange for a new unit. I believe the unit was a mislabeled and they wanted it back to not "let the cat out of the bag". Hey...at least I got a new one out of the deal. The newer ones don't say where they are made. Because they are made in China! I have the whole conversation via email still if anyone is interested. He abated the "made in China" issue. Wish they would just come out and say they are made in freaking China. Another issue was I reached out to them for some customer service but I got lame responses until I brought up the "made in china" issue. Then they were on me like white on rice. Jack notified me right away. So between half ass service and being lied to I probably won't purchase another Woo.


----------



## phase0

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/tools-consumers/made-usa
  


> For most products, unless they are automobiles or items made from textile or wool, there is no law requiring manufacturers and marketers to make a “Made in USA” claim.  But if a business chooses to make the claim, the FTC's Made in USA standard applies.  *Made in USA means that “all or virtually all” the product has been made in America.*  That is, all significant parts, processing, and labor that go into the product must be of U.S. origin.  Products should not contain any – or should contain only negligible – foreign content.  The FTC’s Enforcement Policy Statement and its business guide, Complying with the Made in USA Standard, spell out the details, with examples of situations when domestic origin claims would be accurate and when they would be inappropriate. Manufacturer Settles with FTC for Making Misleading Made-in-the-USA Claims


 
  
 I could imagine Woo needs to source some things from China. The best reference I can think of on how the business works is _Schiit Happened_. I still like my WA5 regardless of where it was sourced. From an integrity perspective Woo should clarify their position and note exceptions somewhere if it's all or mostly sourced from someplace else. Part of the warm fuzzy feeling I had in purchasing the WA5 was the idea of Made in America and supporting businesses within the country.


----------



## Khragon

Chassis ia a pretty significant part. Another marketing point that bothers me a bit is point to point wiring claim, but Woo been using PCB a lot more recently.


----------



## Smileyko

Dear Stegosaurus:
  
I am from the States now living in Asia since 2002. I have spend more then 10 ears living in China and I can tell you fakes are a way of life over there. The dead giveaway is if you look at the website, there is a space before the .com. Very typical inside China. They sometimes put space where there shouldn't be none, and omit space there there really should be one. Now Woo just wouldn't be that stupid to not catch that. I just got mine shipped to me via FedEx last week. It was from the States. Now I am living in HCMC Vietnam and if they had product made in China that's right next to me. I think they would have shipped me one from China and not the States. This is just my two cents and please take no offense because none is intended here. Now the sound, WA7 is really starting to AMAZE me.


----------



## Shini44

ru4music said:


> What, "*no comment!*"?  Who do you think you are, a politician in government!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i mean that the sound is still changing so what ever my impressions are now they gonna change sometime later  but so far so good don't worry. although i didn't have a full session to state anything yet XD


----------



## artemart

artemart said:


> Just making sure that this adapter will work with C3G tube in WA5-LE.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201487044932?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Any one else have tried this on their WA5?


----------



## jhljhl

artemart said:


> Any one else have tried this on their WA5?


 

 I don't think so - you need adapters that are specific left and right channel. I got mine from Glenn.


----------



## artemart

jhljhl said:


> I don't think so - you need adapters that are specific left and right channel. I got mine from Glenn.


 
 But in this adapter description it states that it is specially made for WA5 in the description.
  
 I have emailed woo audio I will report when they I get the adapters.


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> Any one else have tried this on their WA5?


 
  
 I have not. When I asked here and I emailed WA about it, there was some caution about using eBay stuff and potential for damage to the amp. I would contact 2359glenn or contact Woo and buy the adapter from them. I haven't learned the technical risks so my reasoning is that if I buy directly from WA I know it's not going to break anything. With eBay who knows what you're getting, it could be good quality stuff that fits the description, over to outright lies and things that fall apart after the first use or go as wrong as to let out the magic smoke that makes electronics function.


----------



## Khragon

I don't think this is worth the risk, better go with known reputable builder.  The fact that they didn't mention L/R specific adapters gives doubt that these will work.  Even Woo adapters are L/R specific.


----------



## Stegosaurus

phase0 said:


> https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/tools-consumers/made-usa
> 
> 
> I could imagine Woo needs to source some things from China. The best reference I can think of on how the business works is _Schiit Happened_. I still like my WA5 regardless of where it was sourced. From an integrity perspective Woo should clarify their position and note exceptions somewhere if it's all or mostly sourced from someplace else. Part of the warm fuzzy feeling I had in purchasing the WA5 was the idea of Made in America and supporting businesses within the country.



I totally agree with everything you have stated. I always try to buy US products if I can afford to. Like you, part of the reason I purchased the Woo was because it was a US product. However, after I realized I was dupped its not the same. I like my WA6SE its a great product, but I don't love it anymore. Somehow the bad experience has taken away the luster it once had.


----------



## Stegosaurus

smileyko said:


> Dear Stegosaurus:
> 
> I am from the States now living in Asia since 2002. I have spend more then 10 ears living in China and I can tell you fakes are a way of life over there. The dead giveaway is if you look at the website, there is a space before the .com. Very typical inside China. They sometimes put space where there shouldn't be none, and omit space there there really should be one. Now Woo just wouldn't be that stupid to not catch that. I just got mine shipped to me via FedEx last week. It was from the States. Now I am living in HCMC Vietnam and if they had product made in China that's right next to me. I think they would have shipped me one from China and not the States. This is just my two cents and please take no offense because none is intended here. Now the sound, WA7 is really starting to AMAZE me.



I know China is notorious for fakes. But the unit I had wasn't. I did purchase it from ebay not directly from Woo. It was used. I had a dispute with ebay over it being a fake and actually won. But I won by default. The seller didn't produce evidence in his case on time. I did contact him afterwards and he had a bank statement showing that the unit came directly from Woo. Instead of getting my money back from ebay I went ahead and made the exchange for a new one so Woo could "study" the ebay unit.
But really that isn't the real issue anymore. The issue is that I started doing research on where the woo products are really made. After conversing with Jack Wu and online reserch I have a strong understanding that Woo products are NOT US MADE. Rather they are hand assembled in the US with foriegn parts.
So the ebay unit essentially was the reason why I decided to investigate.


----------



## Stegosaurus

khragon said:


> Chassis ia a pretty significant part. Another marketing point that bothers me a bit is point to point wiring claim, but Woo been using PCB a lot more recently.



Honestly, I don't believe anything that Woo advertises.


----------



## joseph69

stegosaurus said:


> I did contact him afterwards and he had a bank statement showing that the unit came directly from Woo.


 
 How do you know the bank statement wasn't a fake as well?
 Also, if finding out your WA6SE was made in China changed your mind about the sound of the amp, then everything your hearing just seems to be in your head. If I came into your home and removed everything you had that was made in or sourced from China, you would probably have nothing left in your home, unfortunately. I totally understand your pony, but thats the way things are these days and have been for a long time. Even though something says its made in the U.S.A. there are Chinese parts in it as well. I own a H-D and my friend owns a Victory and both claim to be American made motorcycles…********, their not, a very good portion of both motorcycle parts are sourced from all different countries, but this didn't make me enjoy it any less (when I used to be able to ride it). Not debating your opinion, just saying the truth.


----------



## Stegosaurus

joseph69 said:


> How do you know the bank statement wasn't a fake as well?
> Also, if finding out your WA6SE was made in China changed your mind about the sound of the amp, then everything your hearing just seems to be in your head. If I came into your home and removed everything you had that was made in or sourced from China, you would probably have nothing left in your home, unfortunately. I totally understand your pony, but thats the way things are these days and have been for a long time. Even though something says its made in the U.S.A. there are Chinese parts in it as well. I own a H-D and my friend owns a Victory and both claim to be American made motorcycles…********, their not, a very good portion of both motorcycle parts are sourced from all different countries, but this didn't make me enjoy it any less (when I used to be able to ride it). Not debating your opinion, just saying the truth.



Well in all honesty I dont know. Ebay can be shady. Could have been fabricated but I believe he was truthful. But I think your missing the point or just like being argumentative...either way. Its really not about whether or not the ebay unit was fake. The ebay unit was the catalyst for me to find out if the Woo products were US made or not. And after my research I have found out that they are NOT A US MADE PRODUCT!
Also, I never stated that my experience made my amp sound worse. It still sounds the same. Assume...makes an ass out of u and me situation I guess.. huh Joe? However, my bad experience has taken away from my whole purchase. At first I was excited but now its tainted to the point that its not as enjoyable.


----------



## joseph69

stegosaurus said:


> Well in all honesty I dont know. Ebay can be shady. Could have been fabricated but I believe he was truthful. *But I think your missing the point or just like being argumentative*...either way. Its really not about whether or not the ebay unit was fake. The ebay unit was the catalyst for me to find out if the Woo products were US made or not. And after my research I have found out that they are NOT A US MADE PRODUCT!
> Also, I never stated that my experience made my amp sound worse. It still sounds the same. Assume...makes an ass out of u and me situation I guess.. huh Joe? However, my bad experience has taken away from my whole purchase. At first I was excited but now its tainted to the point that its not as enjoyable.


 
  
 Relax and re-read my post.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stegosaurus said:


> Hey, I like mine too. But being lied to is not cool.
> Again, Its advertised as being made in the US or Brooklyn in Audio Advisor. Check it out...http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WAWA3 But Woo doesn't do anything about the false advertisement.
> Jack said this unit was a fake, but it wasn't.  I sent this one in to Woo for them to "study" in exchange for a new unit. I believe the unit was a mislabeled and they wanted it back to not "let the cat out of the bag". Hey...at least I got a new one out of the deal. The newer ones don't say where they are made. Because they are made in China! I have the whole conversation via email still if anyone is interested. He abated the "made in China" issue. Wish they would just come out and say they are made in freaking China. Another issue was I reached out to them for some customer service but I got lame responses until I brought up the "made in china" issue. Then they were on me like white on rice. Jack notified me right away. So between half ass service and being lied to I probably won't purchase another Woo.


 
  
 Please do not spread rumors. You conveniently left out where the amplifier was purchased,* it was on eBay*. If you purchased the amplifier direct from us or from our authorized dealers, this would not be a problem. In the name of good customer service, we gave you a genuine Woo Audio product at no charge.


----------



## Stegosaurus

hifiguy528 said:


> Please do not spread rumors. You conveniently left out where the amplifier was purchased, *it was on eBay*. If you purchased the amplifier direct from us or from our authorized dealers, this would not be a problem. In the name of good customer service, we gave you a genuine Woo Audio product at no charge.



I am completely transparent. I did state that I had initially purchased it on ebay and that Woo would exchange it for a new one. I didn't conveniently leave that out. However, it is Woo that spreads rumours or untruths or misleading information...not me. Why don't you explain to the public what really is made in the US. Why doesn't Woo demand that Audio Advisor fix the made in the US/Brooklyn advertisement? Its very misleading.
I believe Woo just wanted me to not "blow the whistle" or "let the cat out of the bag" so you gave me a new one to shut me up. Woo wouldnt even answer me emails until I mentioned that I would go to the forums. Even then Jack abated just about every question I had. So Woo sent me a new unit... To me that is not good customer service but rather tryin to greese the squeaky wheel. Well guess what? Its still squeaking.


----------



## Badas

stegosaurus said:


> I am completely transparent. I did state that I had initially purchased it on ebay and that Woo would exchange it for a new one. I didn't conveniently leave that out. However, it is Woo that spreads rumours or untruths or misleading information...not me. Why don't you explain to the public what really is made in the US. Why doesn't Woo demand that Audio Advisor fix the made in the US/Brooklyn advertisement? Its very misleading.
> I believe Woo just wanted me to not "blow the whistle" or "let the cat out of the bag" so you gave me a new one to shut me up. Woo wouldnt even answer me emails until I mentioned that I would go to the forums. Even then Jack abated just about every question I had. So Woo sent me a new unit... To me that is not good customer service but rather tryin to greese the squeaky wheel. Well guess what? Its still squeaking.


 

 You are going to cop a ban soon dude. Not really the way to go about it.
  
 You have some points however to most of us it really isn't important. I don't speak for all but for myself I couldn't give a stuff if my Woo has Chinese made parts or where it was made. As long as those parts are well made and reliable.
 Some good points you made. Woo doesn't respond well to emails. Yip I have had that as well. Nothing underhand about that from Woo. Just the way they are.
 Woo did give you a new unit and I think that is very great of them. Very surprised actually. That Woo does look fake. Probably wasn't a real one. So it may have been in their interest to see what a fake looks like. I use to sell expensive coders for food factories and we got fakes coming in from China. They were crap but looked real. The fakes can look convincing.
  
 I think in a nutshell be happy. We have heard your points. You got a new unit. Enjoy it.


----------



## jhljhl

[Moderator: Quote from moderated post removed]
  
 The expectation was assembled in the U.S. entirely of U.S. made parts. Does that really exist?


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> The expectation was assembled in the U.S. entirely of U.S. made parts. Does that really exist?


 

 It hasn't existed world wide for a long time. The international rule is that 60% of parts or labour must be done at the country stamped on the product.
 So parts can come from other countries. There is good reasons for this as well.


----------



## Stegosaurus

jhljhl said:


> The expectation was assembled in the U.S. entirely of U.S. made parts. Does that really exist?



Hey I would do it in a heart beat. So if Woo wants to I will. What do you think Wu? He knows its his and he wants it off the market. It was exactly the same as the new one with the exception it didn't have a blinking blue light because it was an older model. I actually was awarded the money back from paypal wish I would have taken them up on it and bought something else.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

stegosaurus said:


> I am completely transparent. I did state that I had initially purchased it on ebay and that Woo would exchange it for a new one. I didn't conveniently leave that out. However, it is Woo that spreads rumours or untruths or misleading information...not me. Why don't you explain to the public what really is made in the US. Why doesn't Woo demand that Audio Advisor fix the made in the US/Brooklyn advertisement? Its very misleading.
> I believe Woo just wanted me to not "blow the whistle" or "let the cat out of the bag" so you gave me a new one to shut me up. Woo wouldnt even answer me emails until I mentioned that I would go to the forums. Even then Jack abated just about every question I had. So Woo sent me a new unit... To me that is not good customer service but rather tryin to greese the squeaky wheel. Well guess what? Its still squeaking.


 
  
  
 We are sadden that you are unhappy with the above and beyond service we provided. We replaced the counterfeit WA6-SE with a genuine unit even though it was purchased on eBay, not from us or an authorized dealer.
  
 There are tens of thousands if not millions of counterfeit products being sold on the internet everyday; ranging from electronics, fashion, medicine and even food. We are not law enforcement nor do we have to capacity to stop counterfeiters. All we can do is advise customers to buy direct from us or from the list of authorized dealers on our website.
  
 http://wooaudio.com/dealers/
  
 A simple search here on Head-Fi.org of "real vs. fake" shows that counterfeiters are very good at what they do.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?advanced=1&action=disp&search=real+vs+fake&titleonly=1&byuser=&output=all&replycompare=gt&numupdates=&sdate=0&newer=1&sort=relevance&order=descending&Search=SEARCH&Search=SEARCH


----------



## ru4music

stegosaurus said:


> Hey I would do it in a heart beat. So if Woo wants to I will. What do you think Wu? He knows its his and he wants it off the market. It was exactly the same as the new one with the exception it didn't have a blinking blue light because it was an older model. I actually was awarded the money back from paypal *wish I would have taken them up on it and bought something else.*


 
 We do too, we're growing tired of listening to your dribble!


----------



## Badas

stegosaurus said:


> Hey I would do it in a heart beat. So if Woo wants to I will. What do you think Wu? He knows its his and he wants it off the market. It was exactly the same as the new one with the exception it didn't have a blinking blue light because it was an older model. I actually was awarded the money back from paypal wish I would have taken them up on it and bought something else.


 

 lesson to be learned. Don't buy off eBarf.
 Especially higher priced items.
 Buy off the manufacturer if possible.
  
 I took one look at that photo and saw fake all over it.
  
 Lets move on to discussing real Woo amps. How is your real Woo amp sounding?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

badas said:


> I agree and I'm not telling you to not say your piece.
> I've walked that fine line myself on this thread previously myself. Got very close to a ban. Jack Woo asked me to take it out of the threads and email or PM him. Which I did and *got no response at all. Woo customer service is terrible*.
> I have been banned from other threads suggesting that the DAC in the Oppo HA-1 is crap. It is.
> 
> I'm just stating a fact. Trying to warn. It's getting close.


 
  
 Sorry that you've had a bad previous experience. Sometimes emails end up in the wrong inbox or simply overlooked. Some days we get over 100 emails. If you don't hear back from us within 24 hrs. durning business days, pls. give us a call or send us a note on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. 
  
 Reach us at:
 info@wooaudio.com
 1 (872) 222-9667
 https://www.facebook.com/WooAudioUSA
 https://twitter.com/wooaudio
 https://www.instagram.com/wooaudio/


----------



## a1uc

My WA5 LE sounds awesome love it


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> My WA5 LE sounds awesome love it


 

 Yip. My WA22 is sounding real great at the moment as well. Slight noise from time to time. I've learned that is just a tube thingy. I think it is one of my drive tubes having a slight fuss. Just ignoring it.


----------



## acguitar84

a1uc said:


> My WA5 LE sounds awesome love it


 
 Did you own any woo amps prior to the wa5 le? I have the wa7 fireflies, just one of the cubes with the solid state power supply. I'm thinking of getting a Wa5 le, and I've read it's quite the step up, even with stock tubes. Just looking for impressions. Thanks!


----------



## Jprod

I have had nothing but postive interactions with woo audio especially with Mike. He is a great representative for woo and has ALWAYS answered my many questions promptly and with my best interests in mind. He is knowledgeable and honest. 
You have made your arguments repeatedly and you were given an open forum to do so. People can do what they wish with your assertions. Can we now please go back to our regularly scheduled programming?


----------



## a1uc

I had a WA22 that we modded with some Jupiter caps , it sounded real good but I prefer the WA5


----------



## a1uc

The Simaudio 430 is another headphone amp I own , between the 2 I'm all set


----------



## Smileyko

jprod said:


> I have had nothing but postive interactions with woo audio especially with Mike. He is a great representative for woo and has ALWAYS answered my many questions promptly and with my best interests in mind. He is knowledgeable and honest.
> You have made your arguments repeatedly and you were given an open forum to do so. People can do what they wish with your assertions. Can we now please go back to our regularly scheduled programming?


 

 Great!!! Back to the regular program: I did my very first tube roll yesterday on my new WA7 from the STATES bought directly from Woo. Waaaaaaaaaa, the EH Gold Pins after a night cooking on low volume absolutely wipe out the stock tubes. Now even the Nighthawk which I didn't like with the Sovtek tubes really sings with the new tubes. The base sound is so full and rounded like I have never heard in any music. Rock and Roll.


----------



## jhljhl

a1uc said:


> I had a WA22 that we modded with some Jupiter caps , it sounded real good but I prefer the WA5


 
  
 For me the wa5le v.1 upgraded is excellent with classical/instrumental/choral/vocals which I listen to mostly these days. Also good for classic rock, jazz and even some hip-hop.  But heavy - rock, edm etc I think something more resolving apparently like the eddie current maybe more synergistic?


----------



## Badas

smileyko said:


> Great!!! Back to the regular program: I did my very first tube roll yesterday on my new WA7 from the STATES bought directly from Woo. Waaaaaaaaaa, the EH Gold Pins after a night cooking on low volume absolutely wipe out the stock tubes. Now even the Nighthawk which I didn't like with the Sovtek tubes really sings with the new tubes. The base sound is so full and rounded like I have never heard in any music. Rock and Roll.


 

 Another NightHawk owner. I'm addicted to that HP at the moment.
 I sold my LCD-X as I was so confident that I wouldn't use them again as the Hawks are better.
  
 Now I own the LCD-3 and Hawks only. I think I'm happy with just those two HP's.
  
 Glad the WA7 is working out for ya.


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> The Simaudio 430 is another headphone amp I own , between the 2 I'm all set





>





>


 
 What is all the other gear under the 430HA? It looks interesting. Do you have a clearer pic?


----------



## a1uc

Its my 4 box Totaldac Twelve DAC / RECLOCKER  don't really have a bigger picture right now


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> Its my 4 box Totaldac Twelve DAC / RECLOCKER  don't really have a bigger picture right now


 

 Absolutely beautiful gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I just looked it up.


----------



## AnakChan

Thread has been cleaned up somewhat, please move along.


----------



## phase0

Well, having read what transpired and then seeing the thread locked. One thing I feel compelled to say is that Jack and Mike have always been very friendly and responsive to all of my contacts to them. The only caveat I can see here is I have never approached them with any problems. More around technical clarifications on compatibility, recommendations for tubes and adapters, or sales. My experience has been very positive. My amp sounds great, I enjoy it nearly every day. I have no problem sincerely recommending Woo products to anyone who would ask my opinion. The only problem with the WA5 is that it's too big and cumbersome for me to take on the road. I can't take it to work on a whim and invite people to rock out for a bit. I don't think I could ever start a business and deal with end customer. Too much BS involved but I am thankful to the folks who make good stuff and are willing to tolerate dealing with the public.


----------



## abvolt

I also saw the pic of the fake Woo amp it is best to buy direct from Woo as I did, happy owner of the finest sounding head amp I've ever owned my wa22 with the right tubes is awesome sounding..enjoy


----------



## phase0

Yea I don't think team Woo deserves the abuse that was heaped on them. For big ticket items you're always better off going to a reputable store (even if it costs more IMO). Fakes are a big issue and fact of life these days especially with global mail order. I keep reading it's a huge problem on Amazon.com now that the Chinese sellers can get on and sell direct. I tried to return my socket savers to China and about 3 or 4 month later I got them back return to sender... Can't expect any customer service there (ebay direct from China) but I can still try LOL.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We are working on a brand new website with high-res photos gallery, upgrade tubes, headphones, accessories and easy checkout. Look for it later this year.


----------



## Shini44

i love the current one though with its black background, this one seems going to be totally different :' (


----------



## Vigrith

shini44 said:


> i love the current one though with its black background, this one seems going to be totally different :' (


 
  
 Whilst I love the black background too I feel like it could use an overhaul when it comes to design in general (easy checkout is most welcome too) so this is most definitely a welcome change. Looking forward to the new website Mike!


----------



## jerick70

The new website looks very nice.  I look forward to seeing it.


----------



## Porteroso

badas said:


> Had a weird thing happen in the weekend. I organized a HP meet. It was not fun and it should have been.
> 
> There was that one guy there that ruined the freakin mood. Anyhow the moment for me was he was listening to my rig. Auralic Vega, WA22 and LCD-X. I asked him what he thought. Big mistake. He looked me in the face and said "well it sounds a bit crapty". crapty??? I wanted to kick his butt. I know we all should be a bit humble and take criticism gracefully. Which I did. However the experience has left me shocked and made me feel crap about my whole HP rig.
> 
> ...


 
 This is really late, but user bias is real. You probably love your rig more than anyone else would, because you built the tube combination, after much trial and error. He probably had already decided he didn't like it, for whatever reason. Not surprising. People do that all the time. Especially if you tell someone you're about to show them something good, whether it's your favorite waterfall, or a nice spot on a river, or a tube amp, or whatever, they're immediately going to be like "well let's not get too excited. I mean it's probably not that great. This guy isn't better than me, he can't know anything I don't. I bet it's going to be really terrible. Yup, I'm about to have the ****tiest experience of my life." 
  
 Showing people great things is hard man. Look at the national forests (here in the US). Do Americans really enjoy them? Such a small percentage does. Look at just basic travel. People are often far too content to sit in their little sphere of the world, and disregard and berate anyone who dares to venture further. Never be content with where you are, but be content with who you are. Always explore, but never lose sight of the beauty that's at home.


----------



## Shini44

^ also keep in mind the preference, for example some people the whole Tube amps sound boring for them, because they like SS sound sig more. 
  
 also if you are happy with what have then other people's opinion shouldn't matter ^^ 
  
 a lot of people find my TH900 bad cause of the slight coloration, but i love it for that


----------



## abvolt

Sounds like that guy needs a good ear examination, how anyone could say that rig sounds bad is beyond me..enjoy


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Sounds like that guy needs a good ear examination, how anyone could say that rig sounds bad is beyond me..enjoy



I would have to agree. 
How's everyone been doing?


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> I would have to agree.
> How's everyone been doing?


 

 Doing well!  How's the Violectric V281 amp working out for you?  Miss the WA22?


----------



## a1uc

Picked up a Nordost Heimdall 2  wow what a nice improvement


----------



## artemart

Do all C3G to 6SN7 adapters have left and a right mark on them?


----------



## abvolt

3083joe said:


> I would have to agree.
> How's everyone been doing?


 
 Doing very cool dude..Happy Listening..


----------



## musicman59

> Do all C3G to 6SN7 adapters have left and a right mark on them?


 
 Yes,they do.


----------



## stephanemtl

Hi all, I own the Woo WA3 and am looking for more clarity & openness (less darkness/muddiness/closedness) with my HD650.
  
 The HD650 tend to be naturally dark... which I love... but I would like to lower the darkness one notch.
  
*Which tubes should I change? Driver or power tubes?*
  
 Current tubes:
 - driver tubes: *Philips PCC88 / 7DJ8* 
 - power tube:  7236 Sylvania NOS 1963 
  
 Thanks!!!


----------



## 3083joe

abvolt said:


> Doing very cool dude..Happy Listening..




Indeed my friend


----------



## Krutsch

stephanemtl said:


> Hi all, I own the Woo WA3 and am looking for more clarity & openness (less darkness/muddiness/closedness) with my HD650.
> 
> The HD650 tend to be naturally dark... which I love... but I would like to lower the darkness one notch.
> 
> ...


 

 I think you and I are the only 2 WA3 owners on this thread ... congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Being serious, it's a great amp, IMO, and one that responds well to tube rolling and is the best match I've ever heard with the HD-650 in this range of tube amps (e.g. IMO, it completely slays the Bottlehead Crack with the HD-650).
  
 I would recommend replacing both your drivers and your power tube, but that's me - if you look at my profile, I have tried just about everything with this amp.
  
 That said, the *Sylvania 7236 is a very underrated power tube*, so keep that one in place until you feel like spending more $$$ - upgrading from where you are now, with power tubes, will cost serious money - tubes like the WE 421a "Bottom D-getter", GEC "Brown Base" 6AS7g and even the Tung-Sol 5998 are selling at un-obtanium prices on eBay. If you can find a Tung-Sol 7236 or a TS 6520, that's a step up, but still not top-shelf.
  
*So, on to the driver tubes*:
  
  On the low-cost end *for the drivers*, I will recommend these:
  

http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/black-diamond-tubes/e88cc-tk.php

  
 They are new manufacture, but IMO they sound good, have great clarity and imaging ... almost holographic compared to many of my other driver tubes. New they are about $50 US each, as I recall.
  
 ...if you want to spend more money, my other favorites are *Siemens CCa* (NOS), *Siemens E288CC* (NOS - mine are re-branded as Philips) or *Telefunken E188CC* (NOS); all are WAY more expensive, but can be found on eBay. I have more tubes (see my profile), but these are the ones I rotate between with the Tele E188CCs being my current favorites.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Herueyes

krutsch said:


> I think you and I are the only 2 WA3 owners on this thread ... congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Maybe ya'll are going about it wrong... instead of tube rolling down the road... Have you considered changing the headphone cable? or perhaps the power and or RCA cable(s) coming into the WA3...? I don't know if you are using a dac or not but my HD650 was collecting dust until I got a Zu Audio Mobius cable...  I had read somewhere about that combination i.e. synergy and it was spot on...  
  
 P.S. and yes I have a WA3 as well... so that makes 3! 
  
 Peace...


----------



## 3083joe

ru4music said:


> Doing well!  How's the Violectric V281 amp working out for you?  Miss the WA22?


 

 Doing very well, Lots of listening.
  
 Loving the V281 but theres some stuff to miss with the WA22
  
  
 How about you?


----------



## ru4music

3083joe said:


> Doing very well, Lots of listening.
> 
> Loving the V281 but theres some stuff to miss with the WA22
> 
> ...


 

 I'm do'in fine.  Still running the WA2 (for the interim) and rolling some tubes; listening to lots of music.  No inkling to change or upgrade at the moment.


----------



## Krutsch

herueyes said:


> Maybe ya'll are going about it wrong... *instead of tube rolling down the road... Have you considered changing the headphone cable? or perhaps the power and or RCA cable(s) coming into the WA3...?* I don't know if you are using a dac or not but my HD650 was collecting dust until I got a Zu Audio Mobius cable...  I had read somewhere about that combination i.e. synergy and it was spot on...
> 
> P.S. and yes I have a WA3 as well... so that makes 3!
> 
> Peace...


 
  
 I actually have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 for my HD-650s ... my cat chewed up the stock cable and I decided I liked the bling factor on the Moon, but I am not convinced that they change the sound in any meaningful way. Great build quality, however, and I like looking at it. I use Kimber Hero w/ WBT connectors for interconnects; these I *do* believe contribute something, but for really changing the sound, tube rolling has a greater impact and I've had a good experience with my tubes and the HD-650, with respect to lifting the mythical veil.
  
 Of course, if the OP just doesn't like the sound of the HD-650s, then changing the headphone is the best solution... but I believe the WA3 + HD-650 to be a great match.


----------



## jhljhl

krutsch said:


> I actually have a Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 for my HD-650s ... my cat chewed up the stock cable and I decided I liked the bling factor on the Moon, but I am not convinced that they change the sound in any meaningful way. Great build quality, however, and I like looking at it. I use Kimber Hero w/ WBT connectors for interconnects; these I *do* believe contribute something, but for really changing the sound, tube rolling has a greater impact and I've had a good experience with my tubes and the HD-650, with respect to lifting the mythical veil.
> 
> Of course, if the OP just doesn't like the sound of the HD-650s, then changing the headphone is the best solution... but I believe the WA3 + HD-650 to be a great match.


 
  
  
 Spend $10,000 get your own electricity pole like audiophiles do in Japan to get rid of any veil.  http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-gift-for-music-lovers-who-have-it-all-a-personal-utility-pole-1471189463


> TOKYO— Takeo Morita wanted absolutely the best fidelity possible from his audio system, so he bought a utility pole.
> The 82-year-old lawyer already had a $60,000 American-made amplifier, 1960s German loudspeakers that once belonged to a theater, Japanese audio cables threaded with gold and silver, and other pricey equipment.
> Normal electricity just wouldn’t do anymore. To tap into what Mr. Morita calls “pure” power, he paid $10,000 to plant a 40-foot-tall concrete pole in his front yard. On it perches his own personal transformer—that thing shaped like a cylindrical metal garbage can—which feeds power more directly from the grid.
> Mr. Morita’s private utility pole
> ...


----------



## Krutsch

^^ I saw that article... EPIC!


----------



## GrindingThud

Me too, that makes 4! I've modded the foo out of my WA3 to get away from the darkish side. I'd keep the 7236, it's a snappy tube, and change the driver. The Amperex "a-frame" 6DJ8 PQ orange label is my go to for 'light and open'. For more $, any of the Telefunken E88CC/6922 are great too. Another tube to try in the output, that many people absolutely hate, is the 5998A (not to be confused with the 5998...different tubes). I find it to have a solid state like sound that I happen to like.



herueyes said:


> Maybe ya'll are going about it wrong... instead of tube rolling down the road... Have you considered changing the headphone cable? or perhaps the power and or RCA cable(s) coming into the WA3...? I don't know if you are using a dac or not but my HD650 was collecting dust until I got a Zu Audio Mobius cable...  I had read somewhere about that combination i.e. synergy and it was spot on...
> 
> P.S. and yes I have a WA3 as well... so that makes 3!
> 
> Peace...


----------



## ru4music

grindingthud said:


> Me too, that makes 4! I've modded the foo out of my WA3 to get away from the darkish side. I'd keep the 7236, it's a snappy tube, and change the driver. The Amperex "a-frame" 6DJ8 PQ orange label is my go to for 'light and open'. For more $, any of the Telefunken E88CC/6922 are great too. *Another tube to try in the output, that many people absolutely hate, is the 5998A* (not to be confused with the 5998...different tubes). I find it to have a solid state like sound that I happen to like.


 
  
 This is absolutely true.  In my WA2 (BTW, I owned a WA3 for several years before & after upgrading to the WA2) the 5998A along with some Russian 6N1P-EV (Voskod Rockets) drivers were simply amazing on acoustical presentations.  They lacked some bass on the bottom end so I wouldn't recommend them as an all-rounder, but for acoustical instruments, vocals and percussion they really are amazing (and inexpensive.)


----------



## stephanemtl

krutsch said:


> ^^ I saw that article... EPIC!


 
 Thank you for the suggestions for new tubes.
  
 Regarding cable... this is exactly with Mike Liang, from Woo, suggested: getting 1.25m Nordost Blue Heaven for the HD650. Not sure I am ready to spend $399 for cables.
  
 He also suggested to experiment with the driver tubes (as opposed to the power tube).
  
 In the end, tubes or cables, the upgrades are all pretty pricey... hard to spend big bucks on tubes/cables you haven't heard.


----------



## jhljhl

stephanemtl said:


> Thank you for the suggestions for new tubes.
> 
> Regarding cable... this is exactly with Mike Liang, from Woo, suggested: getting 1.25m Nordost Blue Heaven for the HD650. Not sure I am ready to spend $399 for cables.
> 
> ...


 
 telefunken e88cc are neutral tubes and silver cables will help with hd650.


----------



## artemart

Hey guys I just got my first set of 300B tubes which are TA-300B.
  
 I have a question for the community because I notice some thing a bit different about this tubes that I have not see with my stock 300b tubes.
  
 When I turn on the amplifier on I hear a spring sound in my right TA-300B tube about every five  to six seconds and as time goes on. The sound starts to happen less frequently and with in 60-180 seconds the spring sound stops and tubes become silent. I just want to ask the community if that is normal or is this some thing I should worry about?


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> Hey guys I just got my first set of 300B tubes which are TA-300B.
> 
> I have a question for the community because I notice some thing a bit different about this tubes that I have not see with my stock 300b tubes.
> 
> When I turn on the amplifier on I hear a spring sound in my right TA-300B tube about every five  to six seconds and as time goes on. The sound starts to happen less frequently and with in 60-180 seconds the spring sound stops and tubes become silent. I just want to ask the community if that is normal or is this some thing I should worry about?


 
  
 I don't have the Taks but that sounds like some normal tube pinging while warming up IMO.
  
 I just got some adapters from Glenn (6SN7 <-> 6F8G)
  

  
 I doubt there's any difference in sound. I like the thicker cables and the more robust looking top clip. I actually like the look of the Woo Audio bases with the white+gold sockets and pins and the like trim. But OTOH I like the solid color goes with the other tube bases nicely. I also thought the wire was too short on one of the Woo Adapters. No perceptible problems but it was always touching or just barely not touching the tube while the other adapter had more clearance. I'm planning on running with Glenns, over all I like this look and I think they look more appropriate to a big tube amp.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 How do you like the TS6F8G? I presume they are round plates.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> ^
> 
> How do you like the TS6F8G? I presume they are round plates.


 
  
 Yes RP. They work great and I agree they're the best (that I've heard so far) with the NU 6C8G in 2nd place. These ping and take a while to warm up, minimum ~5 min. The tube dealer said this is a tested matched pair. I'd say I'm pretty much in audio nirvana right now. I suppose there's some minor potential for further improvements. Also considering another headphone but I can't decide just reading (Flow or Flow C, Elear/Utopia, Abyss, etc).


----------



## Krutsch

stephanemtl said:


> Thank you for the suggestions for new tubes.
> 
> Regarding cable... this is exactly with Mike Liang, from Woo, suggested: getting 1.25m Nordost Blue Heaven for the HD650. Not sure I am ready to spend $399 for cables.
> 
> ...


 

 Don't spend on cables. Seriously, try the new manufacture TK driver tubes and see what you think.
 He's right about pushing the drivers before upgrading the power tubes, but let me assure you... those last nine yards of tone come from the power tubes


----------



## Shini44

artemart said:


> Hey guys I just got my first set of 300B tubes which are TA-300B.
> 
> I have a question for the community because I notice some thing a bit different about this tubes that I have not see with my stock 300b tubes.
> 
> When I turn on the amplifier on I hear a spring sound in my right TA-300B tube about every five  to six seconds and as time goes on. The sound starts to happen less frequently and with in 60-180 seconds the spring sound stops and tubes become silent. I just want to ask the community if that is normal or is this some thing I should worry about?


 
  
 yeh thats normal, don't worry ^^ big epic tubes are different >=)  
  
 the beast is making a sound before he starts hunting , in this case your ears are the prey XD
  
  
 my TA-300B will soon reach 320 hours, maybe in two days. i will start testing it next week though. since i spend the weekend somewhere else (thats why the burning in was too slow)


----------



## stephanemtl

jhljhl said:


> telefunken e88cc are neutral tubes and silver cables will help with hd650.


 
 Do you have a specific brand of cables of mind? Below $200? If I ever choose to go down the cable hole.


----------



## stephanemtl

krutsch said:


> Don't spend on cables. Seriously, try the new manufacture TK driver tubes and see what you think.
> He's right about pushing the drivers before upgrading the power tubes, but let me assure you... those last nine yards of tone come from the power tubes


 
 I think I will get the E88CC-TK Pre Amp Tubes. This would be significant improvement from my current Philips PCC88 / 7DJ8 ?


----------



## Krutsch

stephanemtl said:


> I think I will get the E88CC-TK Pre Amp Tubes. *This would be significant improvement from my current Philips PCC88 / 7DJ8* ?


 
  
 I haven't heard the tube you list, though I have similar tubes, but I think you will like the TKs. Just set your expectations accordingly with respect to what "significant improvement" means.
  
 I have some tubes that are a significant change in sound, but many of my driver tubes all sound like each other (and not great, to be honest).
  
 For example: I have a pair of Reflektor Corp, Saratov 6H23p-EB tubes form the '80s that sound lifeless and flat (again, relatively speaking), but an earlier version of roughly the same tube sound amazing: 6N23p Single Wire Getter Post, Silver Shield '74.
  
 For me it's been a lot of trial-and-error, reading, listening and learning; but that's the fun part right?


----------



## artemart

musicman59 said:


> Yes,they do.


 
 I have done some research and I can find is Glen adapters have right and left label on his adapters. I can not find a single picture of Woo audio adapters for WA5 that have right and left mark on them. If some one has C3G to 6SN7 adapter made by woo can they please post a picture of the adapter where it states if adapter is for left or right side.


----------



## musicman59

artemart said:


> I have done some research and I can find is Glen adapters have right and left label on his adapters. I can not find a single picture of Woo audio adapters for WA5 that have right and left mark on them. If some one has C3G to 6SN7 adapter made by woo can they please post a picture of the adapter where it states if adapter is for left or right side.



Here you go....


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> Here you go....


 
 Does this make any sense that their is a L/R on the adapters?
 I'm asking because their aren't L/R tubes so it really shouldn't matter, right?


----------



## artemart

musicman59 said:


> Here you go....


 
 Thank you very much for the picture.
  
  
 Also why did you take C3G tube out of it's shell?


----------



## artemart

joseph69 said:


> Does this make any sense that their is a L/R on the adapters?
> I'm asking because their aren't L/R tubes so it really shouldn't matter, right?


 
 I think there is is L/R adapters because each one uses a different part of the tube for each channel.


----------



## musicman59

joseph69 said:


> Does this make any sense that their is a L/R on the adapters?
> I'm asking because their aren't L/R tubes so it really shouldn't matter, right?



The tubes are the same and can be interchanged. The adapters are the ones wired different depending on the side. Those are the ones that can not be switched sides.


----------



## musicman59

artemart said:


> Thank you very much for the picture.
> 
> 
> Also why did you take C3G tube out of it's shell?



I didn't. They came like that from Woo. Some other people have done it. It just for looks it does not affect or benefit performance.


----------



## joseph69

artemart said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > The tubes are the same and can be interchanged. The adapters are the ones wired different depending on the side. Those are the ones that can not be switched sides.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Shini44

was posting in the TH900 thread. i will also test the HE-6 with this setup sometime next week in case i finished with the TH900.
  


montanari said:


> I like the th900 very much, but I don't think is close to perfection, for the mid and detail
> It s easy to make sound very well, very comfortable ..but I think lcd3 is superior, especially with Peter Gabriel! Less with electronic
> But to each is own for sure
> The strange thing is that you like the lcd2 and hd650, cans that I also had and liked but you consider too warm the lcd3
> ...


 
 i assure you the TH900 sound way different from Hugo / Hugo TT vs WA5-LE
  
 i just finished burning in the TA-300B tubes and the SW22 cable.  i am having a small session now, the real test will be next week.
  
 the Bass is not as punchy as SS amps, but its still dynamic, fast and controlled. the bass also never bleeds what so ever into the mids. so as an LCD2 fan i think you will love it.
  
 the mids is way more open, sweet, lush and way different than TH900 on SS amp. you will enjoy it big time. the Treble is extended and never on the harsh side, i am even using SW22 cable here and still the WA5-LE maintain the musicality and dynamics in the same time.
  
 i am more of a SS amp lover, but i decided to pick the WA5-LE to see if its worth the challenge. over all the sound is dynamic and fast, compared to the Hugo TT there is slightly less Treble Sparkle and Bass punch but the over all sound sig suit the TH900 and make it nearly perfect.
  
 i am sure that anyone who try this combo will love the TH900 a lot. 
  
 i will update these impressions after many sessions ^^


----------



## Badas

grindingthud said:


> Me too, that makes 4! I've modded the foo out of my WA3 to get away from the darkish side. I'd keep the 7236, it's a snappy tube, and change the driver. The Amperex "a-frame" 6DJ8 PQ orange label is my go to for 'light and open'. For more $, any of the Telefunken E88CC/6922 are great too. *Another tube to try in the output, that many people absolutely hate, is the 5998A (not to be confused with the 5998...different tubes). I find it to have a solid state like sound that I happen to like.*


 

 Your comments got me thinking about this tube again. The GE5998A.
 I have a lot (16 sets, 32 tubes) of the GE 6AS7GA. Which was previously a favorite tube of mine. Both the GE5998A and GE6AS7GA look identical and have identical internal construction. It is likely they are very similar with just some voltage to plate differences. So I decided to throw a set back in last night and give them a listen.
  

  
 These are a real good tube. A very good recommendation. The twin 6BL7's pictured below were only marginally better. Only 2% better. I've decided recently I want to keep things simpler. That includes tubes. So I've decided to keep the GE6AS7GA tubes in for a while as the WA22 circuit is designed for this exact type of tube.
 Treble is decent and sweet. No roll off. Like you mentioned a very SS sounding tube. However I noted a slight mid-range push. It might be why it use to be a favorite. I didn't hear the lacking of bass you mentioned. However I get a lot of bass from my WA22. Also I was using the NightHawks which I have always found to have plenty of bass. NightHawks have more bass than my LCD-3's which I'm very surprised about (I've always thought planar produced more bass than dynamic drivers. Not in this case). One thing I will warn about this tube is it is slow. A bit relaxed. On fast music it can't keep up and the sounds falls apart. So it might not suit some music. Fortunately for me relaxed is more my thing. If I want to listen to fast music I will just use SS. The WA22 and this tube arrangement plays very nicely with the NightHawks (my new favorite HP) so I'm glad at your recommendation and my re-discovery. Thanks.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> *I didn't hear the lacking of bass you mentioned.*


 
 That may have come from my comment, *"the 5998A along with some Russian 6N1P-EV (Voskod Rockets) drivers were simply amazing on acoustical presentations.  They lacked some bass on the bottom end so I wouldn't recommend them *(6N1P-EV)* as an all-rounder, but for acoustical instruments, vocals and percussion they really are amazing (and inexpensive.)​"*
  
 ​The rolled off bass is not from the 5998A, but rather the 6N1P-EV (Voskod Rockets) drivers ​used when paired with them.


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> That may have come from my comment, *"the 5998A along with some Russian 6N1P-EV (Voskod Rockets) drivers were simply amazing on acoustical presentations.  They lacked some bass on the bottom end so I wouldn't recommend them *(6N1P-EV)* as an all-rounder, but for acoustical instruments, vocals and percussion they really are amazing (and inexpensive.)​"*
> 
> ​The rolled off bass is not from the 5998A, but rather the 6N1P-EV (Voskod Rockets) drivers ​used when paired with them.


 

 Ahhh! My bad.
  
 I was listening for rolled off or muddied bass and I couldn't pick it up. I'm not a bass junkie anyway. More of a mid-range kinda guy.
  
 I carried on experimenting last night. The NightHawks don't really need much from tubes. Just a bit of silky holographics. So I rolled in my cheapest rectifier. Fivre 5R4. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't great. I pushed my experimenting too far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will give the Brimar 5Z4GY a go but I think the TAK274B will be back in fairly quickly.


----------



## Shini44

Hey guys i will review the TA-300B sometime this week :3 also gonna sell them after for *1400$ + PP's fees + Free DHL Express Delivery* ^^ i can ship them next Saturday 
  
*they got 320 Hours into them*, so no need to worry about the burn in. tbh had to sell because i need to pay for the *Cavali Audio LAu* amp before they run out for ever :<
  
*the offer is available till Friday 28th. good price + New Pair + Free Express DHL *
  
 i will be going for Elrog 300B as well. soon which i already ordered <3
  

  

  
  
 updated me if you want to buy it


----------



## artemart

how long does C3G takes to burn in?


----------



## phase0

shini44 said:


> Hey guys i will review the TA-300B sometime this week :3 also gonna sell them after for *1400$ + PP's fees + Free DHL Express Delivery* ^^ i can ship them next Saturday
> 
> *they got 320 Hours into them*, so no need to worry about the burn in. tbh had to sell because i need to pay for the *Cavali Audio LAu* amp before they run out for ever :<
> i will be going for Elrog 300B as well. soon which i already ordered <3


 
  
 Not to assume but it almost sounds like you don't like them? I've been reading people rave about the Mr Speaker Ether Flow + Cavalli Tungsten prototype. Maybe that will end up a better option than LAu? I heard the LAu at a canjam a year ago. It was good but I just bought the WA5 at the time. Anyways since I'm ogling a bunch of these newer headphones... not interested in new tubes right now. Anyways if you wait to buy there's always going to be something new and (hyped or arguably better). Good luck! Looking forward to your thoughts on the Elrog...


----------



## Badas

Speaking of TAK. I scored a backup TAK274B for my WA22 today. 2nd hand, 1000 hours on it roughly. US$250.
 Pleased to have a spare.
  
 I'm also going to do a little experiment. I have a selection of Solid State rectifiers coming. Talking to a friend of mine we discussed that there should be more hybrid tube amps. Amps that use a solid state rectifier and only uses tubes for drive and power. Rectifier's only job is to turn AC power into DC. In theory Solid State should do this better than any tube.
 So I thought about these solid state drop in replacement rectifiers which essential would make amps that use a rectifier a hybrid. Many say they do a better job than tube rectifiers. We shall see.
  
 A few I have coming:


----------



## Porteroso

First time I've seen someone want to sell their taks. You posted that you did like them, so you must think the sound doesn't really justify the cost?


----------



## Shini44

phase0 said:


> Not to assume but it almost sounds like you don't like them?


 
 haha no way, i already posted how good these are with TH900 and HE-6 
  
 i can always buy this Tubes pair again ^^ now just in a hurry to fund the next thing, either Dave or LAu, maybe their new flagship etc.
  
 yeh will Review the Elrog as well. 
  
 i will review the whole unit soon ^^  the TA-300B is really a special pair, the best tubes i ever had tested since two or three years <3
  
 i don't recall anyone using the TA-300B and not liking them   so smooth, yet so detailed. and they got their own magic <3 which started to appear after 250 hours of burn in. near 300 hours it started to settle down on the final sound sig i guess.
  
 right now i am testing it more <3 before i make a final review.
  
 regarding the Elrog its the new edition. none of the testers reported a failed unit due the usual previous famous error they had. glad Elrog fixed this issue. it will be while though for anyone to be able to order this pair. as the company changed etc. 
  


porteroso said:


> First time I've seen someone want to sell their taks. You posted that you did like them, so you must think the sound doesn't really justify the cost?


 
  
 nah i am 100% fine the the cost, i will type why they justify the price in the upcoming review. its just as i said i got to fund few things. and since i got Elrog 300B coming i will be busy with it till i buy the Takatsuki 300B again ^^
  
 maybe around November


----------



## qiujiaheng

Used to own the fireflies.


----------



## phase0

Quote:


badas said:


> Speaking of TAK. I scored a backup TAK274B for my WA22 today. 2nd hand, 1000 hours on it roughly. US$250.


 
  
 Now if I could get a deal like that I'd pick them up in a heartbeat. I'm jealous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


shini44 said:


> i will review the whole unit soon ^^  the TA-300B is really a special pair, the best tubes i ever had tested since two or three years <3
> 
> i don't recall anyone using the TA-300B and not liking them   so smooth, yet so detailed. and they got their own magic <3 which started to appear after 250 hours of burn in. near 300 hours it started to settle down on the final sound sig i guess.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha that makes me want them. Bonus no burn in time for whoever gets them. hah you should almost charge more than retail for that LOL. I have to be a little more conservative than you. I want more headphones before I get more tubes. I'm happy to hear the Elrog new revision is holding up. That's another one I'd like to pick up eventually. Enjoy the toys! I'm pretty happy with what I got and trying to resist the urge to acquire some giant collection (looks over nervously at the big box of tubes on the floor)...


----------



## Shini44

phase0 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Haha that makes me want them. Bonus no burn in time for whoever gets them. hah you should almost charge more than retail for that LOL.


 
  
 yeh the burning these in were a pure hell :' ) 4 hours then on 2nd cycle it was 8 hours, and little by little to maintain the tube quality and avoid any problems, till it reached 320 hours hehehe. wow i will have to burn in the Elrog soon...also TA-300B again on November O-o''
  
  
 and no, i won't charge more, you can tell from my feedback that i always provide the Cheapest Price + Free DHL Express, thats my thing


----------



## Shini44

Hello people i guess its the time for me to review the WA5-LE and in this Part i will be covering the Takatsuki 300B Tubes. in Part 02 i will be covering the Elrog 300B (latest/newest version)
  
 Setup: Hugo TT (DAC/Pre Amp) 
 Headphones: HE-6 and TH900.
 Cables: Toxic Cable Black Widow on HE-6 and Toxic Cable Silver Widow 22 on TH900.
 Rectifier Tubes: Mullard GZ34 Metal Base.
  

  
*Note: English isn't my 1st language so bear with me please ^^*
  
  
 i like to say first that the TA-300B had 320 hours of burning in during the past month and i was testing from time to time and taking notes, which i will be covering in the break in section.


  
  
*So why Woo Audio?*
  
 My story with woo audio started with the TH900 thread, i've been have bought this headphone four times because i was trying it with many setups to make it sound right and perfect. then one day i was told about the woo audio and how good they sound with TH900.
  
 so i started with the WA7 and the WA7tp. the woo audio was indeed magical and made look more into this company. the woo audio sound sig exist in the WA7 but the WA5-LE is the beast that will take everything to the next level, not to mention i can drive the legendary mad black horse, the HE-6.
  
*Build Quality and Heat*
  
 The WA5-LE is built like a Tank, and surprisingly enough not hard to transfer around the house, regardless how big it looks like.  i can take it from room to another without worrying about the weight thanks to these handles. also when it comes to tube amps or class A amps a lot of them are a living heater, but this one is another story thanks to the massive heat sinks on it. couldn't ask for more. 
  
*Tube Options*
  
 i started with this first because its important to know what you want, higher price doesn't mean better. for example the cheapest best tubes i bought for this amp is the Brimer 5Z4GY, its like 25 GPB only and a lot agree that it sound like 70-80% like the TA-247 itself.
  
 another good upgrade is the mesh plate option, might be 300$ but its so worth it, i used this one in Samma3a's store which is where i ordered my WA5-LE from. the TA-300B might be expensive for an option but it shows you the full potential of the WA5-LE.
  
 if you are fine with less dynamics and want a Mellow sound sig then the mesh plate option will do it for you. again its about the preference. so no need to go with the TA-300B unless you want to keep the musicality and get more details and dynamics while the control is still there.
  
 if you are looking for more SS like sound sig the Elrog 300B will do that as well. (to be covered in Part 02)

*Sound Signature*
  
 Now the part that matter the most, the sound sig. The WA5-LE is more musical than the WA7tp with even the stock tubes, and with more dynamic and power. the bass is punchier, the mids are fuller and the treble is extended and never on the harsh side.
  
 i really like to point out that the stock tubes are not the best option, i highly suggest upgrading even the cheapest options, the difference will be like a day and night. its a tube amp by the end of the day. the WA5-LE scales a lot with the tubes. you will spot the difference on spot.

*Takatasuki 300B*
  

  
 Now moving into more sound details as i making this review to show the potential of the WA5-LE. after i burned in the TA-300B for 320 hours and gave my brain enough time to adjust to the sound, i gave it many sessions.
  
 the special thing about this pair of tubes that its not fully on the warm side which usually lack dynamics, nor on the bright side which lack musicality or fullness. its detailed, musical, able to control the sound. fast/dynamic that you can listen to EDM and Rock on it. i used many tubes in the last four years. some of them are no longer obtainable, but nothing till day does the magic of the Takatsuki which balance everything out. nothing less , nothing more. and enough for all. 
  
*Fostex TH900*
  
 as i said i sold this headphone nearly four times, just to fund my researches on the best amp for it. WA5-LE was the answer big time.
  
 a lot of people have to mod their TH900 with wood just to bring the Treble down and to make the mids fleshed out.
  
 on the WA5-LE the TH900 sound so different, so perfect and it solved every problem that anyone complained from without taking away the fun, what a nice treat.
  
*Bass*:
  
 The bass is punchy and fun as usual, yet smooth and will never get you tired at all but its never on the boring side!! so fast, dynamic controlled. on the other amps it will feel like taking the magic from the other frequencies, yet here i can enjoy both mids and treble a lot and the bass in the same time.
  
 its not as punchy as SS amps but again no other tubes or even Audio GD Master 9 challenge the dynamics of the WA5-LE and TH900.  the bass texture and punch is right on spot. a lot of fun, and never bleed intro anything, the way the bass vibrate and more air is so fun, 
  
  
*Mids:*
  
 one of the biggest complains on the TH900 is the V shape sound sig and mids. on the WA5-LE it so open and fleshed out. while i am enjoying the bass/treble i can hear the mids filling the can. and not only filling it like this, its creamy, lush and so sweet.
  
 the female vocals couldn't be better. and i listen to J-pop were my collection have 90% female vocals. the mids are not falling back, nor forward due being on a tube amp which usually make the TH900 less fun. i was worried that i will have less fun as a price but i was so wrong.
  
*Treble:*
  
 So many TH900 owners went with the wood mods to shiver down the Treble. the WA5-LE will not shiver down the Treble, its as extended and fun, but its way smoother!! i can listen to the air/treble sparkle!! but never fatiguing  at all even after hour!! how did Woo Audio managed to do this, its totally beyond me. i am able to enjoy the Treble for longer periods and without being worried about the brigthnss nor about having less fun!!
  
*Songs*
  
 Note: sorry in advance about these poor options, i mainly listen to J-pop Anime/VN OST. 
  
 i will start with this one as it made me so aware of the magic of the WA5-LE and TH900, a good example across all the frequencies.

*Ray's a-gain*
  

  
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28555631?ss_pos=1&ss_id=b9475b7e-e7f8-4782-9069-19073f21ac4f
  
 (*Note: youtube/nicovid quality is bad, compared to FLAC or CD on PC)* but what to do.
  
 the start of it have nice extended treble, i love the tiny sparkles, doesn't sound so tiny. the bass is fun and never bleed into Ray's magical sound. i can enjoy Ray's voice @ 1:12 big time and the bass/treble is still there but wow the voice and mids layers are so relaxing and nice. make me want to listen to this track for hours.
  
*Kimi no Iru Machi's OP*
  
 while this one retain a better quality (again youtube..) i enjoyed the Treble, the micro details and the bass without forgetting about the nice vocal, specially on 3:00. when listening to something similar the Treble tiny sparkles on such a track is too important for me. glad that the WA5-LE does the Treble the best justice. 
  
  
  
 for a better song that suit the head-fiers more i tested one of my favorites. *Infected Mushroom - Becoming Insane:*
  
  

  
 i have tried this song with TH900 on Burson power solo, audio gd master 9 and even Ragnarok amp. the Treble usually is bright and the bass get crazy, ofc fun but for many its too much. on this amp i can still have a lot of fun on both Treble/Bass, still fast, punchy and the sparkle is there. its still so dynamic don't get me wrong. the WA5-LE smooths out the Treble, and Control the Bass's punch. 
  
 i kid you not usually this track on the previous + TH900 is insane even for me, hard to listen too, on WA7 alone it was smoother but not as fun. but WA5-LE is like an the priest that Clemens the demon within the Red Demon AKA TH900 and give you the same quality and fun but without trying to fatigue your ears and soul. 
  
*HE-6*
  
 i have tested the HE-6 with speaker amp before, it was JOB 225, not obtainable anymore and hard to find, and a lot know how hard HE-6 to drive. the sound with JOB 225 is yet to be topped, i mean its a speaker amp + HE-6. so i didn't expect the HE-6 to do so super. 
  
 i was wrong, the WA5-LE indeed was up to the challenge, this little silver cowboy was able to tame the mad black horse!! but keep in mind this is a tube amp, the sound vs SS speaker amp is way different.
  
 while the bass wasn't as punchy it was fun, tamed yet never soft and weak. the Treble Energy isn't the same as SS speaker amp as well. yett the mids are super good. don't get me wrong about the Treble and Bass. this is Tube amp vs SS speaker amp!!  so if you are coming from another headphone amp, then fear not as the WA5-LE will wow you big time.
  
 if you still want HE-6 with SS amp sound sig then go for the Cavali Audio LAu or anything similar. 

*Takatsuki 300B changes over time*
  
 now if you are willing to get this tube for your WA5-LE. don't judge on it till you put 300 hours into it. it will start changing from 120 hours, then on 200 hours you will get the first hind of Takarsuki's magic. around the 270 hours mark it will keep changing and will settle again on 320 hours. even the bass punch was too different around 280 hours. but after the break in it will be so worth it.
  
*Conclusion*
  
 is the WA5-LE worth the price? IMO yes, because its the most dynamic tube amp out there that can retain tube's musicality and SS amp like dynamics. it got enough power for HE-6 too. it can drive small cans and even few IEMs using the low gain option. 

 not to mention that the sound sig really changes with the tube rollings. from warm, neutral to even SS amp like (elrog 300B, to be covered in part 02)
  
 i been testing around many expensive amps,  and as a Treble head i was thinking i will not be wowed by WA5-LE since its a tube amp but i ended up with top notch musicality without losing a shred of dynamics that was even smoothed out to give you a longer listening period that never lacks the fun.
  
 what else to ask for in a tube amp? WA5-LE nailed everything. its the dream tube amp of all the times. 5/5 easily earned <3


----------



## jerick70

Thanks for the review @Shini44. 

Now I want a WA5-LE.


----------



## Shini44

jerick70 said:


> Thanks for the review @Shini44.
> 
> Now I want a WA5-LE.


 
  
 Your wallet hates me now


----------



## jerick70

shini44 said:


> Your wallet hates me now


 
  
 LOL.... Yes it does.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey Guys,

 I've been recommended the WE5-Le a while back.
 Currently have the LAu + Abyss/HE1000.

 Anyone here with expereince with both the LAu and WE5-LE and how they compare against each other?
  
 Regards,


----------



## Shini44

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I've been recommended the WE5-Le a while back.
> Currently have the LAu + Abyss/HE1000.
> ...


 
 trying to get the LAu next, but that will take ages. still there is one review that had both 
  
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/
  
 Enjoy ^^


----------



## matthewhypolite

shini44 said:


> trying to get the LAu next, but that will take ages. still there is one review that had both
> 
> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> Enjoy ^^


 
 Took me a full year to get my LAu....lol.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

One of the wonderful things about our tube amps is that the user can 'customize' the sound by experimenting with a variety of tubes to achieve the sound that best match their system and personal preference. Look how much fun @Shini44 is having.


----------



## Badas

Fantastic detailed review Shini44. I enjoyed the read.


----------



## Shini44

Thanks people ^^


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Now if I could get a deal like that I'd pick them up in a heartbeat. I'm jealous


 
  
 Yeah they were a fantastic deal. I rolled the new to me TAK274B in last night. Took it for a burn. This one has many more hours than the one I have been using. Sounded nicer. Cleaner.
 274B tubes produce a small hum in the WA22. That can be heard in the HP's. The TAK274B with many more hours produced less hum. So a lot less background noise. I really liked it.
  
 It has been talked about with the TAK300B's that they need big hours to settle but when they do they last a very long time. I think the same can also be said about the TAK274B.


----------



## ru4music

shini44 said:


> Hello people i guess its the time for me to review the WA5-LE and in this Part i will be covering the Takatsuki 300B Tubes.


 
  
 Thanks for the review Shini44, interesting and thoughtful read.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Have many of you tried these Chesky recordings?
> I just bought these in as a bit of a sample.
> Damn they sound amazing.
> 
> If you have which ones should I grab next?


 
  
 Picked up the Amber Rubarth recording a few weeks back.  It sounded good in my WA2 ( w/ Reflector "Holy Grail" 6N23P/ TS 5998 combo), but now with the WE 396A/ TS 5998 tube combo it sounds incredible.  Very nice recordings (highly recommended!)
  
@Badas, sometimes you really do know what your talking about!


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> Picked up the Amber Rubarth recording a few weeks back.  It sounded good in my WA2 ( w/ Reflector "Holy Grail" 6N23P/ TS 5998 combo), but now with the WE 396A/ TS 5998 tube combo it sounds incredible.  Very nice recordings (highly recommended!)
> 
> @Badas, sometimes you really do know what your talking about!


 
  





 Me knowing what I'm talking about??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sssshh! Only on Friday nights when I've had a few.
  
 I listened to her other album last night Scribbled something. Excellent as well. One song had a few swear words (I didn't overly like that one) however the rest is excellent.
  
 I've grabbed 6 more Chesky albums since then and I preparing to order my third lot. Probably another 8 or so.


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> Me knowing what I'm talking about???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​I'm going to give her album another go tonight just to make sure I have the same listening experience.  If not, it only goes to prove how manic/ depressive I am and that "sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about !" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm pretty sure I'll be ordering more albums from Chesky Records.


----------



## artemart

Shini44 what driver tube did you use?


----------



## Badas

ru4music said:


> ​I'm going to give her album another go tonight just to make sure I have the same listening experience.  If not, it only goes to prove how manic/ depressive I am and that "sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about !"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've just ordered another 7 Chesky CD's. I will post a pic when they come in.


----------



## Shini44

artemart said:


> Shini44 what driver tube did you use?


 
 stock, which i tend to change later on. maybe


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> I've just ordered another 7 Chesky CD's. I will post a pic when they come in.


 

 ​Great!  Please let us know your CHESKYs'  "Best of the Best" opinion when they come in.


----------



## Shini44

at the work office now :< i want to go back home and listen to my WA5-LE...... the songs and the magic are still repeating in my head..... T_T  
  

  
 this photo is from Samna3a's store, woo audio invaded Dubai hehehe.


----------



## matthewhypolite

shini44 said:


> trying to get the LAu next, but that will take ages. still there is one review that had both
> 
> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> Enjoy ^^


 
 This was a good read, and i like how he directly compared it against the LAu with the Abyss/HE1000. Pretty much my exact setup lol. After reading it i dont feel compelled to run out and get the WA5-Le, but i am interested. I'll keep researching and checking it out. I do want to get into tubes and check out that side of the game though.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey Guys,

 Whats the difference between the tube types: 
  

Two _300B_ [PDF] power tubes
Two _6SN7_ [PDF] drive tubes
Two _5U4G_ [PDF] rectifier tubes

  
 Trying to increase my knowledge on tubes, how the different one affects sound quality, what they're for, power tubes vs drive tubes, etc etc etc.

 Can anyone shed any light or point me in the right direction?
  
 Thanks
  
 Edit:
  
 Found this link. http://www.head-fi.org/t/119389/the-new-improved-tube-faq-for-newbies


----------



## artemart

I think this will help you with your research.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534985/power-versus-driver-tubes-question


----------



## artemart

I am using TA-300B (30-40 hours burned in), C3G(15 hours burned in) and Brimar (200+ hours).
 I am still trying to convince my self to stop listening to see if C3G changed the sound that much or my TA-300B burned in more. Also I can not wait for 320 hours.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Can someone shed some light on the WA7 1st Gen vs 2nd Gen from experience? Please and thank you!


----------



## phonyx

Hey all. I have had an OG Burson Conductor for a few years now running my D7000's. It lives in the study with my PC, used for background music while working or writing music. When I want to listen to music for fun or to relax, I used to use my HiFi but having just had our first baby, I am finding I cannot listen to the HiFi in the lounge anymore! I needed a loungeroom headfi setup. 
  
 Long story short, I auditioned a bunch of amps, but nothing really grabbed me. I was close with the WA2 and WA22, but I felt there was always something missing. What one did well, the other didn't, vice versa, a nice sounding amp could drive efficient phones but not planars or high impedance, I couldn't have it all it seemed.
  
 I was at my local HeadFi specialist today auditioning those 2 amps I mentioned above with different phones this time, trying to find synergy. I was about to give up, and was explaining to the store staff why I was about to walk out empty handed and the guy says hang on, I do have this ex-demo WA5 here, it's been reconditioned by Woo and freshly re-tubed with some upgraded glass, want to listen? I'd never even considered one, as I took one look at the price (even of the current LE) and that was an instant "no". But given the predicament I was in, well sure, one listen won't hurt right? 
  
 The WA5 was insanely good. Super insanely good. It was exactly what I was hoping to find but to date hadn't.Spaceous and airy soundstage, accurate, crisp transients, stunningly detailed but never harsh or fatiguing treble, well controlled tight but warm bass, gorgeous vocals. I was floored by it. After a bit of back and forward they did me a very sharp deal and I brought it home!
  
 I was demo'ing it with TH900's (closest phone the store had to my D7000's), and did a final check with the HE-1000 to see how it handled difficult loads (effortlessly). With my own phones at home, I like it even more than the Fostex. I know on paper the D7000 isn't a reference class phone, but I just find it perfect for me.
  
 So I just need to arrange a equipment rack to situate it in the lounge now! See you around this thread then I guess!!


----------



## jerick70

cardiiiii said:


> Can someone shed some light on the WA7 1st Gen vs 2nd Gen from experience? Please and thank you!




I've not heard the WA7 Gen2 but the difference hardware wise is the Gen 2 has a new ESS 9018K2M DAC chip and Woo reworked the amp section.


----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> Hey all. I have had an OG Burson Conductor for a few years now running my D7000's. It lives in the study with my PC, used for background music while working or writing music. When I want to listen to music for fun or to relax, I used to use my HiFi but having just had our first baby, I am finding I cannot listen to the HiFi in the lounge anymore! I needed a loungeroom headfi setup.
> 
> Long story short, I auditioned a bunch of amps, but nothing really grabbed me. I was close with the WA2 and WA22, but I felt there was always something missing. What one did well, the other didn't, vice versa, a nice sounding amp could drive efficient phones but not planars or high impedance, I couldn't have it all it seemed.
> 
> ...




Nice story. Welcolme to the club and when you get it arranged please share a pic.


----------



## jhljhl

One of the woo dealers on audiogon are selling the wa5/le for almost 20% off.


----------



## Cardiiiii

jerick70 said:


> I've not heard the WA7 Gen2 but the difference hardware wise is the Gen 2 has a new ESS 9018K2M DAC chip and Woo reworked the amp section.


 
  
 Yeah I think I'll go in and give it a listen.


----------



## jerick70

jhljhl said:


> One of the woo dealers on audiogon are selling the wa5/le for almost 20% off.


 
  
 Where?  I don't see it on Audiogon.  I only see a black WA22.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

phonyx said:


>


 
  
 As another new owner, I whole-heartedly agree that the WA-5 is an "insanely good" amp. Tried the (modded) HE-6's on the WA-5's K1000 output yesterday for the first time, and the realism was incredible. I could close my eyes and it felt like the artist was performing right in front of me. Couldn't stop listening. I'd say the realism was on par with my Stax 009/Woo WES combo but with more punchy bass. And before anyone knocks the Woo WES, I prefer its SQ to the KGSSHV Carbon and KGST. The HE-1000s sound great as well (very musical and holographic) on low impedance setting of the WA-5 but not the K1000 output (too hot/shouty/uneven, with little volume wiggle room). I love the WA-5 for its flexibility. Its also has quite neutral sound signature. I had assumed it would be on warmer side due to the WES being warm. But this can be due to the tubes I am running.
  
 BTW, the WA-5 is much larger than I had expected, in particular its depth and tube height. Had to rearrange my whole system so that it would fit it in my rack.


----------



## Shini44

Welcome, new WA5-LE owners 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 time to get the TA-300B maybe?


----------



## jhljhl

jerick70 said:


> Where?  I don't see it on Audiogon.  I only see a black WA22.


 
 https://www.audiogon.com/listings/over-ear-audeze-lcd-3-w-woo-audio-wa5-le-300b-single-ended-triode-class-a-amp-called-best-in-w-2016-08-15-headphones-34741-kissimmee-fl
  
 I asked about the wa5 - and there's a sale for it too. I am tempted as I have a wa5le v1 upgrade but would have to sell not sure if it is worth it...


----------



## phase0

Welcome to the WA5-land you guys. I had a nice listening session a couple nights ago where the stars aligned. I get sucked into that timeless place and disappeared from the world. I was dropping my jaw several times like 'I can't believe my ears!', 'I can't believe how incredibly good this is!', and getting those shivers up and and down my spine. And for moments like that I forget all about how much I spent. I hope you guys find as much enjoyment in yours!
  
 I was worried if I got a lower end like WA7 or WA22 that I'd end up buying the WA5 or something higher end eventually so in my own twisted logic I worked out how buying the WA5 first and up front will save me money in the long term LOL. I can't think of much else that I've bought that has ever brought me this much enjoyment (Have to put Audeze LCD-XC out in front here too since those are my headphones) so to me at least it this was money well spent.


----------



## abvolt

phase0 said:


> Welcome to the WA5-land you guys. I had a nice listening session a couple nights ago where the stars aligned. I get sucked into that timeless place and disappeared from the world. I was dropping my jaw several times like 'I can't believe my ears!', 'I can't believe how incredibly good this is!', and getting those shivers up and and down my spine. And for moments like that I forget all about how much I spent. I hope you guys find as much enjoyment in yours!
> 
> I was worried if I got a lower end like WA7 or WA22 that I'd end up buying the WA5 or something higher end eventually so in my own twisted logic I worked out how buying the WA5 first and up front will save me money in the long term LOL. I can't think of much else that I've bought that has ever brought me this much enjoyment (Have to put Audeze LCD-XC out in front here too since those are my headphones) so to me at least it this was money well spent.


 
  
 I do agree with most of what you've said except the part about the wa22 being a lower end head amp, personally I say it's an excellent sounding amp with the right tubes..enjoy


----------



## artemart

Welcome to WA5 club.
  
 Strongly recommend C3G tube with adapters from 2359glenn. His adapters do not look as nice as woo audio adapters but the price difference make you forget about how it looks.


----------



## phase0

abvolt said:


> I do agree with most of what you've said except the part about the wa22 being a lower end head amp, personally I say it's an excellent sounding amp with the right tubes..enjoy


 
  
 Ya you're probably right. Lot's of people seem to love it. I bought the WA5 blind without auditioning anything based on reading comments... and it seemed to work out okay. So I haven't really spent any time with the WA22 to really say either way. From where I was coming from before the WA7 would have been a great amp too. I did hear it at a canjam after I got the WA5. I don't intend to say they're no good. Just that I would always be wondering what I'm missing so I jumped to the higher end rather than buy two amps before jumping to the WA5. The WA234 is just out of range and if I did have the money for it I just don't know that I feel like I need to try and look for anything higher at this point.


----------



## zeissiez

I have heard Alo Studio Six, WA5 and currently own an ECBA. If I can choose all over again, I would go for the WA5. The sound is just so addictive.


----------



## jerick70

jhljhl said:


> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/over-ear-audeze-lcd-3-w-woo-audio-wa5-le-300b-single-ended-triode-class-a-amp-called-best-in-w-2016-08-15-headphones-34741-kissimmee-fl
> 
> I asked about the wa5 - and there's a sale for it too. I am tempted as I have a wa5le v1 upgrade but would have to sell not sure if it is worth it...




Thanks for the link and the heads up. I think this is my opportunity to purchase a WA5 LE. 

I'm selling my modded WA22 if anyone is interested.


----------



## Rossliew

zeissiez said:


> I have heard Alo Studio Six, WA5 and currently own an ECBA. If I can choose all over again, I would go for the WA5. The sound is just so addictive.




How would you compare the ECBA to the WA5?


----------



## zeissiez

rossliew said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard Alo Studio Six, WA5 and currently own an ECBA. If I can choose all over again, I would go for the WA5. The sound is just so addictive.
> ...




The ECBA is very neutral, there's no lushness in the sound, almost like solid state amp. The WA5 is lush, weighty, mid-range is thick and rich, tube-bloom is much more apparent, and it can drive any headphones. The ECBA is more neutral, accurate and transparent, and more extended. It can't drive less efficient planar headphones so well.


----------



## Rossliew

zeissiez said:


> The ECBA is very neutral, there's no lushness in the sound, almost like solid state amp. The WA5 is lush, weighty, mid-range is thick and rich, tube-bloom is much more apparent, and it can drive any headphones. The ECBA is more neutral, accurate and transparent, and more extended. It can't drive less efficient planar headphones so well.


 

 Thanks for the comparisons. I'm looking at a used ECBA (PX4/300B option) and was wondering if it would have some tube lushness in its sound if i were to use 300B tubes.


----------



## phonyx

badas said:


> Nice story. Welcolme to the club and when you get it arranged please share a pic.


 
  
 Thank you! I won't have it set up in the lounge for awhile yet, but I'll take a pic of it where it sits now 
  


boynamedsue said:


> As another new owner, I whole-heartedly agree that the WA-5 is an "insanely good" amp. Tried the (modded) HE-6's on the WA-5's K1000 output yesterday for the first time, and the realism was incredible. I could close my eyes and it felt like the artist was performing right in front of me. Couldn't stop listening. I'd say the realism was on par with my Stax 009/Woo WES combo but with more punchy bass. And before anyone knocks the Woo WES, I prefer its SQ to the KGSSHV Carbon and KGST. The HE-1000s sound great as well (very musical and holographic) on low impedance setting of the WA-5 but not the K1000 output (too hot/shouty/uneven, with little volume wiggle room). I love the WA-5 for its flexibility. Its also has quite neutral sound signature. I had assumed it would be on warmer side due to the WES being warm. But this can be due to the tubes I am running.
> 
> BTW, the WA-5 is much larger than I had expected, in particular its depth and tube height. Had to rearrange my whole system so that it would fit it in my rack.


 
  
 The flexibility to drive absolutely any headphone is very rare in an amp. I know I am free to buy anything and it will drive them without issue. It is large as you say, wouldn't recommend it for a PC/headfi setup as it needs so much desk space but if you have a large or second desk, or a rack it will fit. Thanks for the tip about he HE's from the balanced output, I'll be sure to remember that. 
  


shini44 said:


> Welcome, new WA5-LE owners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Shini 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps one day! I am running a pair of PSVANE 300B's, a pair of Tungsol 6SN7 GTB's and pair of Genalex Gold Lion U77 GZ34's so not stock tube, not high end either. 
  
  


jhljhl said:


> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/over-ear-audeze-lcd-3-w-woo-audio-wa5-le-300b-single-ended-triode-class-a-amp-called-best-in-w-2016-08-15-headphones-34741-kissimmee-fl
> 
> I asked about the wa5 - and there's a sale for it too. I am tempted as I have a wa5le v1 upgrade but would have to sell not sure if it is worth it...


 
  
 WA5LE to WA5 - do you need the speaker or balanced output? Cool to have the full-featured model but if you don't 'need' it might be better to stay with your current, unless you get really good resale?
  


phase0 said:


> Welcome to the WA5-land you guys. I had a nice listening session a couple nights ago where the stars aligned. I get sucked into that timeless place and disappeared from the world. I was dropping my jaw several times like 'I can't believe my ears!', 'I can't believe how incredibly good this is!', and getting those shivers up and and down my spine. And for moments like that I forget all about how much I spent. I hope you guys find as much enjoyment in yours!
> 
> I was worried if I got a lower end like WA7 or WA22 that I'd end up buying the WA5 or something higher end eventually so in my own twisted logic I worked out how buying the WA5 first and up front will save me money in the long term LOL. I can't think of much else that I've bought that has ever brought me this much enjoyment (Have to put Audeze LCD-XC out in front here too since those are my headphones) so to me at least it this was money well spent.


 
  
 I've been having those experiences myself today/tonight! Mouth agape, shaking my head in disbelief. Just cannot believe how absolutely stunning this thing sounds. For me, it leaves the W2/W22, and anything else I've heard far behind, which is amazing in itself as in the greater scheme of things they are great amps in their own right.
  


artemart said:


> Welcome to WA5 club.
> 
> Strongly recommend C3G tube with adapters from 2359glenn. His adapters do not look as nice as woo audio adapters but the price difference make you forget about how it looks.


 
  
 Thanks. I have a lot to learn about tube options for this amp!
  
  


jerick70 said:


> Thanks for the link and the heads up. I think this is my opportunity to purchase a WA5 LE.
> 
> I'm selling my modded WA22 if anyone is interested.


 
  
 You won't be disappointed. I A/B'd the W2, W22 and WA5 and it was no contest!


----------



## phonyx

Ok here we go, still looks good sitting randomly on a desk


----------



## zeissiez

rossliew said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > The ECBA is very neutral, there's no lushness in the sound, almost like solid state amp. The WA5 is lush, weighty, mid-range is thick and rich, tube-bloom is much more apparent, and it can drive any headphones. The ECBA is more neutral, accurate and transparent, and more extended. It can't drive less efficient planar headphones so well.
> ...




Even if 300B tubes were used for the ECBA, there's still no lushness. And the soundstage is not oval-shape like a typical 300B amp. A WA5 is much much more tubey sounding than an ECBA.


----------



## Rossliew

zeissiez said:


> Even if 300B tubes were used for the ECBA, there's still no lushness. And the soundstage is not oval-shape like a typical 300B amp. A WA5 is much much more tubey sounding than an ECBA.


 

 Would the ECBA be suitable for high impedance headphones like the Senns and Beyers? Those are my primary cans actually.


----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> Ok here we go, still looks good sitting randomly on a desk




Nice pic. Looks great.


----------



## zeissiez

rossliew said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > Even if 300B tubes were used for the ECBA, there's still no lushness. And the soundstage is not oval-shape like a typical 300B amp. A WA5 is much much more tubey sounding than an ECBA.
> ...




If u are looking for a "reference" and "accurate" sound, yes the ECBA is a great amp for HD650, HD800S, T1 and many more. Woo amps are less accurate, but more euphony.


----------



## a1uc

Sold my WA22 and don't miss it one bit after using the WA5LE V2


----------



## jhljhl

I tried some we396a with 6sn7 adapters - they sound really transparent with tight bass. Anyone else try these?


----------



## Rossliew

zeissiez said:


> If u are looking for a "reference" and "accurate" sound, yes the ECBA is a great amp for HD650, HD800S, T1 and many more. Woo amps are less accurate, but more euphony.




I used to love the tube euphonic sound a lot but of late I seem to be veering towards a more solid state sound, neutrality is what some call it I suppose. Looks like the ECBA may be a good addition if I can save up enough for it lol


----------



## phonyx

I don't think the WA5 is super euphonic? The WA2 and WA22 coloured the sound more, in my opinion. The WA5 sounded clean and clear, it's got a similar signature to my Burson Conductor but clearer, with a far wider/deeper soundstage - just better in all measures to me. 
  
 Audition both, then you can make an educated choice.


----------



## Rossliew

phonyx said:


> I don't think the WA5 is super euphonic? The WA2 and WA22 coloured the sound more, in my opinion. The WA5 sounded clean and clear, it's got a similar signature to my Burson Conductor but clearer, with a far wider/deeper soundstage - just better in all measures to me.
> 
> Audition both, then you can make an educated choice.




Unfortunately there's no shop or dealers here carrying both amps so I'm depending heavily on reviews and the opinions of those who have listened with both..


----------



## phonyx

Ah right, that's too bad. Well I cannot audition any Eddie Current stuff here either, as no one stocks it. Same with DNA. Would have to just take a punt on it and buy new/used then on-sell if I didn't gel with it. The WA5 was on offer, it is highly regarded, I could hear it compared to many other high quality amps side by side and thought it sounded tremendous. 
  
 Sorry I cannot help with your comparison! But I can say the WA5 is a great amp.


----------



## zeissiez

T





phonyx said:


> I don't think the WA5 is super euphonic? The WA2 and WA22 coloured the sound more, in my opinion. The WA5 sounded clean and clear, it's got a similar signature to my Burson Conductor but clearer, with a far wider/deeper soundstage - just better in all measures to me.
> 
> Audition both, then you can make an educated choice.




The WA5 scales the stage much more than the WA22/WA2. The WA5 is by far Woo's best amp currently.


----------



## zeissiez

rossliew said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > If u are looking for a "reference" and "accurate" sound, yes the ECBA is a great amp for HD650, HD800S, T1 and many more. Woo amps are less accurate, but more euphony.
> ...




Well, it's personal preference and it also depends on matching. Personally, I like richer and fuller sounding amps like Woo's for stringent sounding cans like the HD800, and a neutral and powerful amp for the HE1000. If u like neutrality, the ECBA is better than many SS amps. Better soundstage depth, more organic, more air between instruments and even more transparent than many SS amps I heard.


----------



## phonyx

Really wish we had access to eddy current gear here. Sounds like it's really good. 

I do like analytical/natural sounding Hi-Fi, I have nice SS pre/power and a clean DAC driving B&W 804's. But when the speakers are cm from my ears, I find that kind of analytical sound very fatiguing. I can't handle HD800's, for example, but one could say they're the headphone equivalent of my speakers. To be fair, I've never heard them with a WA5, though I'd be keen to. That's just my experience and preference so far.


----------



## Rossliew

zeissiez said:


> Well, it's personal preference and it also depends on matching. Personally, I like richer and fuller sounding amps like Woo's for stringent sounding cans like the HD800, and a neutral and powerful amp for the HE1000. If u like neutrality, the ECBA is better than many SS amps. Better soundstage depth, more organic, more air between instruments and even more transparent than many SS amps I heard.




Sounds like my kinda sound preference. How's the bass like with ECBA?


----------



## zeissiez

rossliew said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it's personal preference and it also depends on matching. Personally, I like richer and fuller sounding amps like Woo's for stringent sounding cans like the HD800, and a neutral and powerful amp for the HE1000. If u like neutrality, the ECBA is better than many SS amps. Better soundstage depth, more organic, more air between instruments and even more transparent than many SS amps I heard.
> ...




Bass is well controlled, extended and neutral


----------



## HiFiGuy528

phonyx said:


> Ok here we go, still looks good sitting randomly on a desk


 
 Beautiful...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


a1uc said:


> Sold my WA22 and don't miss it one bit after using the WA5LE V2


 
 WA22 is good, but compared to WA5-LE it's no comparison. Those 300B tubes are magical....


----------



## Rossliew

Heard the WA22 with a LCD3 - wonderful sounds, so musical and organic sounding!


----------



## phonyx

I have a few tube related questions! You can tell I'm new to this...
  
 Anyone compared the Sophia Electric 6SN7 vs the CV181-z treasures? 
  
 Anyone used the Sophia Electric 274B Aquas to replace the 5U4G's? 
  
 Anyone used the Sophia Electric Classic 300B tubes? 
  
 Lastly, where do you buy EML tubes from? Their website and those linked on it seem quite B-grade!
  
 All advice appreciated!


----------



## phase0

phonyx said:


> I have a few tube related questions! You can tell I'm new to this...
> 
> Anyone compared the Sophia Electric 6SN7 vs the CV181-z treasures?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well I don't have much experience here but when I asked about the Sophia Electric and CV181 Treasures, people told me that they are over priced for what you get and the best sounding tubes are old stock. I remember reading a few posts a long time ago with some initial excitement about the CV181 Treasures but then it seemed like the conclusion I read is they're really not a great value. Again I don't have any experience with them but that is how I remember it from what I read.
  
 I did buy the EML 300B from tubesusa.com. And yes B-grade or something like that could describe the site. I don't think they do a huge volume of sales. I think the guy had to order the tubes, and then re-ship them on to me. That said other than it took a couple weeks, the experience was fine and I'm happy with the tubes.


----------



## leftside

I considered the WA5LE, but had concerns and doubts whether a 300B could be properly driven by a 6SN7. Lot's of links like these out there and here on headfi:
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/249855-6sn7-300b-2.html
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/300Bredux/redux.html
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts/4515
  
 From what the WA5/LE owners are reporting, then it seems like Woo did indeed do a fine job of being able to properly drive the 300B's with 6SN7's. I especially like the separation of the two boxes.


----------



## phonyx

phase0 said:


> Well I don't have much experience here but when I asked about the Sophia Electric and CV181 Treasures, people told me that they are over priced for what you get and the best sounding tubes are old stock. I remember reading a few posts a long time ago with some initial excitement about the CV181 Treasures but then it seemed like the conclusion I read is they're really not a great value. Again I don't have any experience with them but that is how I remember it from what I read.
> 
> I did buy the EML 300B from tubesusa.com. And yes B-grade or something like that could describe the site. I don't think they do a huge volume of sales. I think the guy had to order the tubes, and then re-ship them on to me. That said other than it took a couple weeks, the experience was fine and I'm happy with the tubes.




Ah ok. New prices are quite high, some old NOS sylvanias are similar in price and do review well. I have some near me with low hours on them for far cheaper than new so that's why I was interested to know. 

Ok, I might contact tube USA and see what the deal is!


----------



## jhljhl

A pair of mullard ecc35 for those interested.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252517705678?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## leftside

Nice. The ECC35 are some of my favorite tubes. Shame those on eBay have different construction - not sure if that will make too much of a difference. Definitely a good price.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> Nice. The ECC35 are some of my favorite tubes. Shame those on eBay have different construction - not sure if that will make too much of a difference. Definitely a good price.


 

 I think they have the right mullard codes. How are yours different?


----------



## leftside

Check the construction carefully on those tubes on eBay. They are not the same. The ECC31 - 35 all come with quite a few construction differences.


----------



## Oskari

Do point out. Please. Thanks.


----------



## leftside

One upper mica spacer is totally round and the other has a jagged edge. Probably won't make a difference, but I like my paired tubes to have exactly the same construction and to be closely matches. I would never have installed 4 6BL7's if I couldn't find a matching quad.


----------



## jerick70

shini44 said:


> Your wallet hates me now




I went out and purchased a WA5 LE today thanks to your review. I'm eagarly awaiting it's arrival.


----------



## phonyx

You won't be disappointed, theyre fabulous.


----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> You won't be disappointed, theyre fabulous.


 

 +1


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> One upper mica spacer is totally round and the other has a jagged edge. Probably won't make a difference, but I like my paired tubes to have exactly the same construction and to be closely matches. I would never have installed 4 6BL7's if I couldn't find a matching quad.


 
 Yeah I noticed that with the ecc32.


----------



## leftside

I have 3 pairs of ECC32. Each pair are matching, but each pair has slightly different construction to the others. Hopefully that makes sense!


----------



## Shini44

jerick70 said:


> I went out and purchased a WA5 LE today thanks to your review. I'm eagarly awaiting it's arrival.


 
 try to change the stock tubes. thats for sure. the difference even with the smallest change really matters.


----------



## jerick70

shini44 said:


> try to change the stock tubes. thats for sure. the difference even with the smallest change really matters.




Which tubes do you recommend replacing first? My budget is a bit shot because of the WA5 purchase. I would appreciate tubes on the lower end of the price spectrum.


----------



## Shini44

jerick70 said:


> Which tubes do you recommend replacing first? My budget is a bit shot because of the WA5 purchase. I would appreciate tubes on the lower end of the price spectrum.


 
 i feel you, i had the stock tubes for while too because of the budget :' )
  
 the 1st tubes i went with were the brimer gy5z something, forgot the name XD i think its on my review check it out
  
 these says to be 70~90% as good as TA-247 but the price is like super cheap. less than 50$ for a pair.
  
 make sure to check who is the best seller for these. but searching in the thread for "Brimer" etc. 
  
 for the 300B save like 300$ and get the Mesh Plate upgrade. you can check alternatives as well.


----------



## phase0

jerick70 said:


> Which tubes do you recommend replacing first? My budget is a bit shot because of the WA5 purchase. I would appreciate tubes on the lower end of the price spectrum.


 
  
 I'd say change the rectifier first, try something like the Brimar 5Z4GY cause they're pretty cheap, and then there's lots of 6SN7s you could try. I've been running 6F8G and 6C8G which you need an adapter for which will cost more than the Brimar tubes but so far I've liked even the ultra cheap RCA over most of the 6SN7s I tried. I got a cheap pair of RCA 6SN7 GTs that were decent for like $30. The 300Bs are pretty expensive so you could wait on those.


----------



## reeltime

phase0 said:


> Well I don't have much experience here but when I asked about the Sophia Electric and CV181 Treasures, people told me that they are over priced for what you get and the best sounding tubes are old stock. I remember reading a few posts a long time ago with some initial excitement about the CV181 Treasures but then it seemed like the conclusion I read is they're really not a great value.


 
  
 I still have a pair of CV181 Treasure 2s.  Every time I try them in the amp (they barely fit) I listen for 20 minutes and back in the box they go.  There is a crunchiness to these tubes I just can't get past.  
  
 Someone once told me the 181s clear up after like 300 hours. My response?  If I have to listen to 300 hours of crap to get to something decent, you've made a bad tube.


----------



## phase0

reeltime said:


> Someone once told me the 181s clear up after like 300 hours. My response?  If I have to listen to 300 hours of crap to get to something decent, you've made a bad tube.


 
  
 LOL reminds me of another tube people say is awesome... the Tak 300Bs... 320 hours to reach the ready point. The solution is to get two amps. One for burn in and the other to listen too


----------



## Shini44

320 hours burn in on the TA-300B was so worth it <3


----------



## reeltime

jerick70 said:


> Which tubes do you recommend replacing first? My budget is a bit shot because of the WA5 purchase. I would appreciate tubes on the lower end of the price spectrum.


 

 Check out the EMLs.  They cost enough to "hurt" but well under the top tier Taks.  I think the EMLs are in the sweet spot as far as price to value.
  
 I'd go with a 300B first, then the rectifier.  Do the driver last.  You're going to drive yourself nuts looking for the right pair (everyone does). 
  
 The one thing I'll warn you about: changing one set of tubes affects the sound relationship between the others.  One brand of 300B will sound different when paired with a GZ34, Brimar, 274, or 596 and so forth.


----------



## reeltime

shini44 said:


> 320 hours burn in on the TA-300B was so worth it <3


 

 OK, but the Taks sound good out of the box.  The 181 sounds like crap out of the box.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 (I finally found a 6SN7 that works.)


----------



## musicman59

jerick70 said:


> Which tubes do you recommend replacing first? My budget is a bit shot because of the WA5 purchase. I would appreciate tubes on the lower end of the price spectrum.


 
 I have own a WA5-LE with all the electronic upgrades plus other customization) for about 5 years. My recommendation is to replace first the 300B tubes. Normally the stock drivers and rectifiers are not too bad. 
 I good tube to go with that is not cheap but also not as expensive as the Taks are the EML 300B Mesh. After the power tubes I would replace the rectifiers and I would go with Mullards, Brimars or Chemlers. Then you can change the drivers. My favorite driver is the TS 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates but you will need an adapter for them.


----------



## ymc226

Question on the headphone settings on the WA5-LE.  Using my usual headphones (HE1000, 800S and Beyer T5Ps) which I know the settings but just got IEMs (Shure SE846).  I want to try it with the adapter.  I am guessing the power is LOW, impedence is LOW as well.  Is the level LOW or HIGH?


----------



## Torq

ymc226 said:


> Question on the headphone settings on the WA5-LE.  Using my usual headphones (HE1000, 800S and Beyer T5Ps) which I know the settings but just got IEMs (Shure SE846).  I want to try it with the adapter.  I am guessing the power is LOW, impedence is LOW as well.  Is the level LOW or HIGH?


 
  
 You'll want all the settings on *LOW*.
  
 And if I was going to do that, I'd set the music playing _before_ I had inserted them in my ears and would do so gradually, until I was sure that the lowest playing level wasn't going to take out my ears anyway!


----------



## phonyx

^this. And whatever you do, don't click the switch between low and high with the headphones in/on even with the volume on minimum there's a super loud 'CLICK' that will hurt.


----------



## isquirrel

jerick70 said:


> Which tubes do you recommend replacing first? My budget is a bit shot because of the WA5 purchase. I would appreciate tubes on the lower end of the price spectrum.


 

 Go EML, you get a 5 year warranty, reasonable pricing, mesh will give you a softer mellow sound, the flat plates (normal) also sound very good and are more dynamic. Depends on what type of music you like. Does the WA5 support 2A3's or 45's?


----------



## Krutsch

@isquirrel  Congratulations, Simon, on moving over to Headphone dot Guru.
  
 I really like that site and I just noticed that on your title. When you write something there post a link back.


----------



## isquirrel

krutsch said:


> @isquirrel  Congratulations, Simon, on moving over to Headphone dot Guru.
> 
> I really like that site and I just noticed that on your title. When you write something there post a link back.


 

 Than you, I am in the middle of some interesting reviews. They should be up in the next couple of months, I will indeed post a link here as they do indeed use Woo products in them.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Quick question. Just picked up a WA7, are these meant to be switched off or is it alright to leave them on all the time? Also, how long do the stock tubes last for before needing replacement? Thank you in advance.


----------



## phase0

cardiiiii said:


> Quick question. Just picked up a WA7, are these meant to be switched off or is it alright to leave them on all the time? Also, how long do the stock tubes last for before needing replacement? Thank you in advance.


 
  
 Tubes have a lifetime, I would turn it off when not in use. Not sure how long the tubes will last but I've heard people say to expect 5000+ hrs on a lot of tubes.


----------



## pervysage

cardiiiii said:


> Quick question. Just picked up a WA7, are these meant to be switched off or is it alright to leave them on all the time? Also, how long do the stock tubes last for before needing replacement? Thank you in advance.




I recall the manual recommending to avoid having the amp on for more than 8 hours at a time.


----------



## phonyx

Yep, definitely want to turn tube amps off after use.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Thank you gents!


----------



## fhuang

isquirrel said:


> Go EML, you get a 5 year warranty, reasonable pricing, mesh will give you a softer mellow sound, the flat plates (normal) also sound very good and are more dynamic. Depends on what type of music you like. Does the WA5 support 2A3's or 45's?


 
  
  
 the wa5 only support 300b


----------



## Badas

My third batch of Chesky CD's arrived today.



My Chesky collection so far.



I will give a review in a week or two. Once I've given them all a good listen.

Also experimenting with SS rectifiers. In particular the Weber Copper Cap. So far it is friggin amazing. Might look odd however the sound is legendary. Better than the TAK274B.


----------



## jerick70

shini44 said:


> i feel you, i had the stock tubes for while too because of the budget :' )
> 
> the 1st tubes i went with were the brimer gy5z something, forgot the name XD i think its on my review check it out
> 
> ...


 
  
  


phase0 said:


> I'd say change the rectifier first, try something like the Brimar 5Z4GY cause they're pretty cheap, and then there's lots of 6SN7s you could try. I've been running 6F8G and 6C8G which you need an adapter for which will cost more than the Brimar tubes but so far I've liked even the ultra cheap RCA over most of the 6SN7s I tried. I got a cheap pair of RCA 6SN7 GTs that were decent for like $30. The 300Bs are pretty expensive so you could wait on those.


 
  
  


reeltime said:


> Check out the EMLs.  They cost enough to "hurt" but well under the top tier Taks.  I think the EMLs are in the sweet spot as far as price to value.
> 
> I'd go with a 300B first, then the rectifier.  Do the driver last.  You're going to drive yourself nuts looking for the right pair (everyone does).
> 
> The one thing I'll warn you about: changing one set of tubes affects the sound relationship between the others.  One brand of 300B will sound different when paired with a GZ34, Brimar, 274, or 596 and so forth.


 
  
  


musicman59 said:


> I have own a WA5-LE with all the electronic upgrades plus other customization) for about 5 years. My recommendation is to replace first the 300B tubes. Normally the stock drivers and rectifiers are not too bad.
> I good tube to go with that is not cheap but also not as expensive as the Taks are the EML 300B Mesh. After the power tubes I would replace the rectifiers and I would go with Mullards, Brimars or Chemlers. Then you can change the drivers. My favorite driver is the TS 6F8G Black Glass/Round Plates but you will need an adapter for them.


 
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Go EML, you get a 5 year warranty, reasonable pricing, mesh will give you a softer mellow sound, the flat plates (normal) also sound very good and are more dynamic. Depends on what type of music you like. Does the WA5 support 2A3's or 45's?


 
  
  
 Thanks everyone for the all of the excellent input!  I'm still waiting for my amp to show up. 
  
 On 300Bs.. where is everyone getting their EML 300Bs at, and what should I pay for them?  Has anyone tried the Genalex Gold Lion PX300B with the WA5?
  
 I already own a pair of Brimar 5Z4Gs from my WA22 and I'm going to try those as soon as I get the amp.
  
 Where are you getting your TS 6F8G @musicman59?  How much should I expect to pay?  Do I need adapters for them?


----------



## musicman59

jerick70 said:


> Thanks everyone for the all of the excellent input!  I'm still waiting for my amp to show up.
> 
> On 300Bs.. where is everyone getting their EML 300Bs at, and what should I pay for them?  Has anyone tried the Genalex Gold Lion PX300B with the WA5?
> 
> ...


 
 You can get the EML from tubesusa.com the Mesh version is about $850 pr.
 You can get the 6F8G form ebay. They used to be pretty cheap but now they are probably around $200-$250 for the TS round plates/black glass. There are other brands with flat plates that will give you about 85% of the sound for about 50% of the cost. 
 Yes, you need adapters. The best IMO are form Glenn (2359glenn here in the forum).


----------



## a1uc

Maybe this can help some people here


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> Also experimenting with SS rectifiers. In particular the Weber Copper Cap. So far it is friggin amazing. Might look odd however the sound is legendary. Better than the TAK274B.


 
  
 You're other tube recommendations have been spot on. That's super high praise saying it's better than the very expensive TAK274B. Are you worried this could cause a problem long term since it's not actually a tube? Woo strongly advises to avoid using SS rectifier plugs and says staying with a pure tube solution is the best way to experience the amp.


----------



## artemart

phase0 said:


> You're other tube recommendations have been spot on. That's super high praise saying it's better than the very expensive TAK274B. Are you worried this could cause a problem long term since it's not actually a tube? Woo strongly advises to avoid using SS rectifier plugs and says staying with a pure tube solution is the best way to experience the amp.


 
 I think woo audio does not want to use SS rectifier because it gives full power to the tubes instead of gradually increasing it. After doing a bit research it shows that this SS rectifier does slowly increase the power but at a faster rate then a normal tube. I will do some more research because this SS rectifier seems different then the ones I looked at before.
  
 Update:
 After doing more research it seems like the company tells its buyers do no use it in HIFI amps.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> You're other tube recommendations have been spot on. That's super high praise saying it's better than the very expensive TAK274B. Are you worried this could cause a problem long term since it's not actually a tube? Woo strongly advises to avoid using SS rectifier plugs and says staying with a pure tube solution is the best way to experience the amp.


 
  
  


artemart said:


> I think woo audio does not want to use SS rectifier because it gives full power to the tubes instead of gradually increasing it. After doing a bit research it shows that this SS rectifier does slowly increase the power but at a faster rate then a normal tube. I will do some more research because this SS rectifier seems different then the ones I looked at before.
> 
> Update:
> After doing more research it seems like the company tells its buyers do no use it in HIFI amps.


 
  
 Weber Copper Cap WU4GB is the way to go as it has a -50 volts at maximum current. Just like a regular tube. WU4GB is a drop in replacement for 5U4G. The Woo amp wouldn't even know that it is solid state. The Woo amp has no way of knowing it is not a tube. Everything is at a tube specification. The benefit is no tube lag. Regular voltage. That's where I'm hearing sound improvements. Tube rectifiers are a waste of time. All they do is turn AC voltage to DC voltage. SS is far better for the task. More manufactures should make amps with SS rectifiers built in.
  
 Some other SS rectifiers made my amp hot. Too much voltage. That's the extra 50 volts in the amp. So they are a no go.
  
 An example of a different SS rectifier I trialed.
  


  
 Weber Copper Cap WU4GB actually made my WA22 run cold. 3 hours plus and the chassis was still cool (The copper on the rectifier got hot but the amp transformers ran cool). So they are better for the amp than a regular tube.
  

  
 Sound benefits I have noted:
  
 Increased bass and it is clean. No bloom.
 Faster. Sound has a real snap to it. My tube amp can now pass my speed test track. Robert Palmer - Some like it hot. In the past it always just fell apart.
 Treble. Oh! this has been a massive improvement. TAK274B just sounds veiled compared to SS. Extra detail and Wow it is clean and clear. No harshness. Alison Krauss - New Favorite. Her voice actually croaks on some high notes. Never heard this before and it is a go to track for me. Extra detail.
 Noise level. The quietest it has ever been. Just no hum or buzz. Dead quiet.
  
 No side effects to sound that I have heard. The same soundstage and holographics as the TAK274B.
  
 Something else to consider. The rectifier sounds great from the first second. No warm up period needed. My amp now sounds it's best from the instant it is used.


----------



## artemart

Any one with WA5 wants to try it?
  
 Because I am worried about a bold message on WU4GB page "FOR USE IN GUITA AMPS. Not designed for use with HIFI tube amps, tube radios, etc".
  
 Also what about "WS1 Copper Cap" it say it is OK to use with HIFI tube amps.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Any one with WA5 wants to try it?
> 
> Because I am worried about a bold message on WU4GB page "FOR USE IN GUITA AMPS. Not designed for use with HIFI tube amps, tube radios, etc".


 

 I contacted Weber and the recommended it. It is designed to provide the exact same voltage as a 5U4G.
  
 If you like just wait. It is not coming out of my amp. Just sounds so damn good. If something bad is going to happen it will happen in the next few weeks. I will report it.


----------



## artemart

badas said:


> I contacted Weber and the recommended it. It is designed to provide the exact same voltage as a 5U4G.


 
 Dame badas you are too fast for me, I have edited that message in less then a minute and you have replied to it before I could finish.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Any one with WA5 wants to try it?
> 
> Because I am worried about a bold message on WU4GB page "FOR USE IN GUITA AMPS. Not designed for use with HIFI tube amps, tube radios, etc".
> 
> Also what about "WS1 Copper Cap" it say it is OK to use with HIFI tube amps.




I was looking at the WS1 also. That has a chance of being a better solution than the WU4GB. It's all about the voltage drop at max voltage. The WU4GB drops 50 volts just like a 5U4G tube. Only reason they say not for HiFi amps is that voltage drop is a bit and I suspect they think HiFi users don't want that kind of voltage drop. You could get better results with one using less of a voltage drop. The GZ34 is on the Woo recommended rectifier list. Unlike the 5U4G it only drops 17 volts at maximum voltage. In theory this would provide more speed, punch and control. So a copper cap that is closer to that 17 volt drop is entirely feasible. I was going to do a bit of research on it but to be honest the WU4GB is hitting all the right buttons and with less voltage it will run cooler and be easier on amp components. So I might just leave my exploring and research where it is. 



artemart said:


> Dame badas you are too fast for me, I have edited that message in less then a minute and you have replied to it before I could finish.


----------



## artemart

I have emailed Jack about WU4GB lets see what he say. If he say that it is good I will try it with WA5-LE.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> I have emailed Jack about WU4GB lets see what he say. If he say that it is good I will try it with WA5-LE.




You will get a reply from Mike. He won't endorse it. You will get a standard reply saying only tubes on the list.

I'm using the amp right now. It is amazing how quiet it keeps the other tubes. No hiss, hum or noise of any kind. Shows how important the rectifier is. Constant clean voltage is the key.


----------



## 2359glenn

artemart said:


> Any one with WA5 wants to try it?
> 
> Because I am worried about a bold message on WU4GB page "FOR USE IN GUITA AMPS. Not designed for use with HIFI tube amps, tube radios, etc".
> 
> Also what about "WS1 Copper Cap" it say it is OK to use with HIFI tube amps.


 

 This is because in Hi fi inter grated amps there is also a AM-FM tuner phono stage preamp that might not work right with the voltage drop.
 You don't want to use the WS1 with no voltage drop this is what BADAS originally had that overheated his amp.


----------



## joseph69

@Badas 
  
 Your definitely making me want to buy a WU4GB and throw it in my WA6!


----------



## jerick70

Very interesting development using Weber Copper Caps.  Very affordable compared to other options.  I'm waiting to see the outcome.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 When I get my WA5 LE I'll purchase a pair and report back.


----------



## Badas

Well. I ran my amp for 7 hours solid last night. No rest. Music feed into it the entire time. Volume loud (over half way).
 No overheat issues. Amp got coolish warmish at the most.
  
 Absolutely zero noise from the other tubes. Which I find interesting as I always got a bit of hum or buzz on and off. If you listened to no music you would swear you were listening to a extremely well built SS amp.
  
 Sound. Well I've already said it. It is the best I've heard from my WA22 and I've owned it a fair while now. I bet my WA22 could have taken on a NOS equipped WA5 last night and it would have been competitive (actually I think it would have won on detail). The times I have heard a kitted out WA5's they have not been as good as what I heard last night.
  
*BIG WARNING THO GUYS*. Don't buy these because of my comments. I take no responsibility. This is purely experimental. Not endorsed by Woo Audio.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Well. I ran my amp for 7 hours solid last night. No rest. Music feed into it the entire time. Volume loud (over half way).
> No overheat issues. Amp got coolish warmish at the most.
> 
> Absolutely zero noise from the other tubes. Which I find interesting as I always got a bit of hum or buzz on and off. If you listened to no music you would swear you were listening to a extremely well built SS amp.
> ...


 
  


jerick70 said:


> Very interesting development using Weber Copper Caps.  Very affordable compared to other options.  I'm waiting to see the outcome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> Well. I ran my amp for 7 hours solid last night. No rest. Music feed into it the entire time. Volume loud (over half way).
> No overheat issues. Amp got coolish warmish at the most.
> 
> Absolutely zero noise from the other tubes. Which I find interesting as I always got a bit of hum or buzz on and off. If you listened to no music you would swear you were listening to a extremely well built SS amp.
> ...


 
  
 Very cool to know this thanks for testing these,can't wait to hear what you have to say after you've gotten more time with them..enjoy


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Very cool to know this thanks for testing these,can't wait to hear what you have to say after you've gotten more time with them..enjoy


 
  
 My amp has been on and off with SS rectifiers a dozen times now. 3 times with the Weber Copper Caps. No issues. Just the heat issue with the first batch. No heat issues with Weber.
  
 A couple of other pics of the Weber (just cosmetic changes). I ran electrical tape around the bottom to make it look like bakerlite.
  
 Sounding excellent with the NightHawks.


----------



## artemart

If any WA5-LE owners have bough this SS rectifiers please let me know I would like to know who to follow <3.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> *BIG WARNING THO GUYS*. Don't buy these because of my comments. I take no responsibility. This is purely experimental. Not endorsed by Woo Audio.


 
  
 And it sounds so great from your descriptions that a bunch of people want to jump in too. I wish there was some solid technical analysis to explain what all is going on both inside the amp and the ss tube replacement. It sounds like it's totally fine but that lingering what-if-it's-not and then you end up with a surprise failure down the line? I know I'm highly ignorant of electronics. Never studied it in school. From your descriptions I'd almost go order them right now. More education on it would go a ways to set me at ease especially since Woo says really don't do it, but then we all want the best sound quality we can achieve and you're making it sound like that is the best thing so far. Then not only that it is the best rectifier you've heard, it's that it's super cheap. If this works out without risk it would be a no brainer to buy it immediately.


----------



## reeltime

badas said:


> Absolutely zero noise from the other tubes. Which I find interesting as I always got a bit of hum or buzz on and off. If you listened to no music you would swear you were listening to a extremely well built SS amp.
> 
> Sound. Well I've already said it. It is the best I've heard from my WA22 and I've owned it a fair while now. I bet my WA22 could have taken on a NOS equipped WA5 last night and it would have been competitive (actually I think it would have won on detail). The times I have heard a kitted out WA5's they have not been as good as what I heard last night.
> 
> *BIG WARNING THO GUYS*. Don't buy these because of my comments. I take no responsibility. This is purely experimental. Not endorsed by Woo Audio.


 
  
 I still want those TAK 274s.  I love the GZ34 and will keep them until they die, but the Tak rectifiers have me curious.
  
 Excellent line about the warning.  Nicely done.


----------



## Badas

WA22 back on with copper cap. I will do a few more hours (3 or 4) again tonight. Over the next few weeks I will run it as much as I can. I will be the WA22 sold state test pilot. 

Another note. My transformers always made a very slight hum. Not anymore. That's gone. I wonder if that makes the noise level lower as that was something I really noticed.

No doubt on sound tho. I'm 100% on sound. This is the best sounding rectifier to be installed in my amp.

I will be running this warning on every post about this subject:

BIG WARNING THO GUYS. Don't buy these because of my comments. I take no responsibility. This is purely experimental. Not endorsed by Woo Audio.


----------



## sprite40

Was about the WS1 copper cap, but someone got before me.. next time i read a page or two back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It all sound very interesting


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## phonyx

The problem (or potential problem) using SS rectifiers in these amps is they do not allow voltage sag. Tubes do, and the amps are designed for that. SS rectified amps sound tihgter and punchier no doubt, but they can sound cold, tight and lack that inherent sweetness of tube rectified gear. I don't think it will show up as heat per se, there may be components now (I'm thinking caps) that you are running at or above their design specs.


----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> The problem (or potential problem) using SS rectifiers in these amps is they do not allow voltage sag. Tubes do, and the amps are designed for that. SS rectified amps sound tihgter and punchier no doubt, but they can sound cold, tight and lack that inherent sweetness of tube rectified gear. I don't think it will show up as heat per se, there may be components now (I'm thinking caps) that you are running at or above their design specs.


 

 That's where the Weber becomes gold. WU4GB is a solid state rectifier with a 50 volt voltage drop at maximum voltage. Sag so to speak.
  
 I've heard the solid state rectifiers sound tighter and punchier. I haven't heard cold (I would guess more neutral). It really depends on the other tubes. If the other tubes are warm then the sound is warm. SS rectifier didn't flare well with 6BL7 power tubes. A bit dry. So there is truth in your comments. SS did do well with warmer power tubes. A good mix of both. Fast, detailed and warm.
  
 I now seem to get what I always wanted from my WA22. It is quiet with no music (no hum or buzz), Silky sounding, Warm and lush, Handles pace better. A lot faster. Lots of detail and bass. Perfect.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> WA22 back on with copper cap. I will do a few more hours (3 or 4) again tonight. Over the next few weeks I will run it as much as I can. I will be the WA22 sold state test pilot.
> 
> Another note. My transformers always made a very slight hum. Not anymore. That's gone. I wonder if that makes the noise level lower as that was something I really noticed.
> 
> ...


 

 With the SS rectifier you are drawing less current from the power transformer no 3 amp filament to power.
 This could be why no hum or 50Hz vibration from the transformer. Also should have less 50Hz magnetic field around it to be picked up
 by the 6C8 tubes.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> With the SS rectifier you are drawing less current from the power transformer no 3 amp filament to power.
> This could be why no hum or 50Hz vibration from the transformer. Also should have less 50Hz magnetic field around it to be picked up
> by the 6C8 tubes.


 

 Thanks for the explanation. I've never heard the amp so quiet.

 I was sure one of my TSRP 6C8G's was noisy. Started producing a little buzz on and off. Switching sides the buzz would switch as well. I was just putting up with it as it is a real nice sounding tube.
 Since SS rectification this buzzy tube has gone 100% quiet. Not a thing out of it. I have clocked over 20 hours of SS listening now.


----------



## phonyx

badas said:


> That's where the Weber becomes gold. WU4GB is a solid state rectifier with a 50 volt voltage drop at maximum voltage. Sag so to speak.
> 
> I've heard the solid state rectifiers sound tighter and punchier. I haven't heard cold (I would guess more neutral). It really depends on the other tubes. If the other tubes are warm then the sound is warm. SS rectifier didn't flare well with 6BL7 power tubes. A bit dry. So there is truth in your comments. SS did do well with warmer power tubes. A good mix of both. Fast, detailed and warm.
> 
> I now seem to get what I always wanted from my WA22. It is quiet with no music (no hum or buzz), Silky sounding, Warm and lush, Handles pace better. A lot faster. Lots of detail and bass. Perfect.


 
  
 Ah so it will sag 50v, interesting. I'm not sure how much tubes sag by comparison. Tubes are able to swing current well but aren't so good at fast dynamic voltage swings, so they tend to sound lazier (usually manifesting in slower bass) but at the same time sounding sweeter/warmer/more euphonic. The opposite is true for SS gear. And yes you're absolutely correct to say it depends on power/driver tube pairings, as their relative personalities affect one another and the overall sound presentation. 
  


2359glenn said:


> With the SS rectifier you are drawing less current from the power transformer no 3 amp filament to power.
> This could be why no hum or 50Hz vibration from the transformer. Also should have less 50Hz magnetic field around it to be picked up
> by the 6C8 tubes.


 
  
 Yeah 50/60Hz hum is often derived from filament supply. It will still be producing that voltage but the tap wont be loaded as there's no filament to heat with a SS rec. But when the power tubes want more juice, that juice is there rather than the voltage sagging out when the dynamic phrases demand more, so the lack of sag will load it harder.


----------



## jerick70




----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> Ah so it will sag 50v, interesting. I'm not sure how much tubes sag by comparison. Tubes are able to swing current well but aren't so good at fast dynamic voltage swings, so they tend to sound lazier (usually manifesting in slower bass) but at the same time sounding sweeter/warmer/more euphonic. The opposite is true for SS gear. And yes you're absolutely correct to say it depends on power/driver tube pairings, as their relative personalities affect one another and the overall sound presentation.



WU4GB sags the same as a 5U4G. Essentially it performs just like a 5U4G
 
In theory we could find better. If Weber produces one with the voltage drop of a GZ34 tube (which is on Woo amps list). That only sags 17 volts I believe. This would produce an even faster snappier sound. To be honest I'm happy with the WU4GB. It is as euphonic as the TAK274B but with the benefits of snappier/faster sound, detail and bass extension. Very impressed by clean mids as well. One album by Chesky (Alexis Cole) is very dark and the mids get boomy. On the TAK274B is is not listenable and even distorts. On the WU4GB it is smooth and listenable.

The best way to look at this SS rectifier experiment is you are getting the best of both Techs. Sound has the speed, pace, detail and quietness of SS with a warm, euphonic and holographic tint from tubes.


----------



## phonyx

Hmm very interesting. If they have a tube with 17v sag and the weber SS rec sags 50v then this *should* be a completely safe rec to use. 

The only danger of SS recs that I'm aware of is the relative lack of sag and inherent over-voltage condition of downstream components this could cause. 

I'm interested in dropping a pair of these into my WA5 now...


----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> Hmm very interesting. If they have a tube with 17v sag and the weber SS rec sags 50v then this *should* be a completely safe rec to use.
> 
> The only danger of SS recs that I'm aware of is the relative lack of sag and inherent over-voltage condition of downstream components this could cause.
> 
> I'm interested in dropping a pair of these into my WA5 now...




There is a few members interested in dropping into a WA5. I've had a number of PM's. 

*Just want to highlight. Not endorsed by Woo or myself.* It is one thing to blow up my own amp (if it happened I will just get a local repair), however I take no responsibility for damage to other members amps. I hope I've been clear.


----------



## phonyx

badas said:


> There is a few members interested in dropping into a WA5. I've had a number of PM's.
> 
> *Just want to highlight. Not endorsed by Woo or myself.* It is one thing to blow up my own amp (if it happened I will just get a local repair), however I take no responsibility for damage to other members amps. I hope I've been clear.




I will hold you solely responsible for my actions and expect you to pay for my repairs in the event of a failure!! 

Joking!! It's everyone's own responsibility to read and understand the Woo Audio docs, if you run tubes not on the list it is most certainly at your own risk.


----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> I will hold you solely responsible for my actions and expect you to pay for my repairs in the event of a failure!!
> 
> Joking!! It's everyone's own responsibility to read and understand the Woo Audio docs, if you run tubes not on the list it is most certainly at your own risk.




Thanks for that. I'm feeling a bit of pressure. 

Like I said. I don't mind blowing up my amp, however I would feel terrible if my experimenting blew up someones else amp.


----------



## phase0

Well I definitely don't want my amp to blow up. It sounds like theoretically those Webers are safe. While I wait for someone else to try it, I did have something show up at my door today 



They pretty good. I'm not sure if they're $4k good though. People said give them some time to burn in. I'll wait a bit before deciding.


----------



## phonyx

Oh niiiiiice

which model variant are they? Keen to hear these myself.


----------



## artemart

phase0 said:


> Well I definitely don't want my amp to blow up. It sounds like theoretically those Webers are safe. While I wait for someone else to try it, I did have something show up at my door today
> 
> 
> 
> They pretty good. I'm not sure if they're $4k good though. People said give them some time to burn in. I'll wait a bit before deciding.




Man that does look nice. I am going to LA to test out thous headphones this Saturday and on Sunday I am going to a friends house to try them out with my WA5-LE. Then I will know the truth if they are better then my HE-1000.


----------



## phonyx

badas said:


> phonyx said:
> 
> 
> > Ah so it will sag 50v, interesting. I'm not sure how much tubes sag by comparison. Tubes are able to swing current well but aren't so good at fast dynamic voltage swings, so they tend to sound lazier (usually manifesting in slower bass) but at the same time sounding sweeter/warmer/more euphonic. The opposite is true for SS gear. And yes you're absolutely correct to say it depends on power/driver tube pairings, as their relative personalities affect one another and the overall sound presentation.
> ...




I just remembered I'm running the GBZ34's in my WA5, it is quite fast and dynamic, perhaps that's why. Haven't heard the standard recs in ages


----------



## davehg

phonyx said:


> The problem (or potential problem) using SS rectifiers in these amps is they do not allow voltage sag. Tubes do, and the amps are designed for that. SS rectified amps sound tihgter and punchier no doubt, but they can sound cold, tight and lack that inherent sweetness of tube rectified gear. I don't think it will show up as heat per se, there may be components now (I'm thinking caps) that you are running at or above their design specs.


 
 I had read about and discounted the Weber due to this admittedly older thread on one of the guitar amp forums, which did reference Weber's use of a resister to resolve the sag issue, but also referenced a few challenges that the Copper cap posed to the driver tubes. I don't think there is a way to rebiase the output tubes on a Woo to account for the voltage changes wrought by the Weber, which is why I stayed away.
  
 Not sure if the design of the Weber has changes since this 14 year old post. But very interested in this thread. Running the Sophia Princess 274b in the WA22 I just bought from Jerick - the TAK is a bit much price wise, and I have a set of Brimars in transit. But the Weber is priced right and the sound results Badas is getting intrigue me. I might try it out on my 6SE which has sat idle since the WA22's arrival.
  
 It would be great if someone with electrical engineering background could test and opine. I have a pal that works for DIY Audio here in WA, and will ask him his thoughts. I suspect he will laugh at me for seeking out an amp with a tube rectified power supply and then seeking to replace with solid state. I appreciate the irony.


----------



## jerick70

My WA5 shipped today. Should be here next week. Really looking forward to it. 

Now to decide which tubes to buy first. Already have Brimar 5Z4Gs. And Weber copper caps are on the way.

I asked this previosly, has anyone tried Gold Lion PX300Bs in the WA5? I would go the EML 300B route but they are a bit beyond my budget right now.


----------



## pippen99

jerick70 said:


> My WA5 shipped today. Should be here next week. Really looking forward to it.
> 
> Now to decide which tubes to buy first. Already have Brimar 5U4Gs. And Weber copper caps are on the way.
> 
> I asked this previosly, has anyone tried Gold Lion PX300Bs in the WA5? I would go the EML 300B route but they are a bit beyond my budget right now.


 
 I asked the same thing some months back and got no response.  I was looking for some reasonably priced backups for  the SRP 300b.  May be someone will step up this time?


----------



## 2359glenn

phonyx said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > phonyx said:
> ...


 

 Voltage drop and sag are two different things. Voltage drop is the drop in the rectifier with the amp running. Sag is further drop when the amp
 is driven hard. This is desirable in in guitar amps it gives the crunch in the sound not so good in Hi-Fi amps.
 I don't know what Weber uses to drop the voltage if it is a resistor it will still have sag.
 I was going to build these with HEXFREDS and high wattage wattage zener diodes so it will have the voltage drop and no sag.
 With a zener diode the voltage drop will be the same no matter what amp it went in with different current draws.
 But decided against it don't want to here about damaging amps when it won't.


----------



## jerick70

pippen99 said:


> I asked the same thing some months back and got no response.  I was looking for some reasonably priced backups for  the SRP 300b.  May be someone will step up this time?




I'll have to buy a pair and report back. They get very positive reviews outside the forum.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Hi guys, I was just wondering which one between HD800 and HD800S fits WA22 better? I usually listen to piano, symphonies, classical music. 
 Thanks a lot.


----------



## a1uc

The one you can get the best price on


----------



## 3083joe

shapeshifter44 said:


> Hi guys, I was just wondering which one between HD800 and HD800S fits WA22 better? I usually listen to piano, symphonies, classical music.
> Thanks a lot.



I have owned all three. WA22, 800 and 800S 
800s is sooooo much better. Better low and not so harsh highs. Using them now with v281 SS amp because it quiet and fast. 
Go 800S you won't look back.


----------



## shapeshifter44

3083joe said:


> I have owned all three. WA22, 800 and 800S
> 800s is sooooo much better. Better low and not so harsh highs. Using them now with v281 SS amp because it quiet and fast.
> Go 800S you won't look back.


 
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## shapeshifter44

3083joe said:


> I have owned all three. WA22, 800 and 800S
> 800s is sooooo much better. Better low and not so harsh highs. Using them now with v281 SS amp because it quiet and fast.
> Go 800S you won't look back.


 
 May I also ask what dac are you using?


----------



## 3083joe

shapeshifter44 said:


> May I also ask what dac are you using?



I was using pro-ject box RS series dac
But I have gone all vinyl so Clearaudio performance DC with magnify tonearm and Karet 17D3 cartridge. 
And ayre phono stage preamp running to my v281. Feeing the 800 S headphones. But TonyNewman could direct you to some really nice Dacs. I do use a chord mojo with my iPhone and sennheiser ie800 IEMs. Great sound for digital.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Well I definitely don't want my amp to blow up. It sounds like theoretically those Webers are safe. While I wait for someone else to try it, I did have something show up at my door today
> 
> 
> 
> They pretty good. I'm not sure if they're $4k good though. People said give them some time to burn in. I'll wait a bit before deciding.




That is a very sexy pic. Congrats on the new HP's. That is one heck of a rig.

I can report 3 more on and offs with the WU4GB rectifier. No issues at all. I actually think the amp is running better than ever. Everything seems very stable. No hum, noise or anything. Just super warm, lush and detailed sound.

Another side effect benifit from SS rectification seems to be no magic second hour sound effect. My amp is sounding about 98% as good as it ever gets from startup. There isn't a big leap forward in quality after the tubes warm up after an hour.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> That is a very sexy pic. Congrats on the new HP's. That is one heck of a rig.
> 
> I can report 3 more on and offs with the WU4GB rectifier. No issues at all. I actually think the amp is running better than ever. Everything seems very stable. No hum, noise or anything. Just super warm, lush and detailed sound.
> 
> Another side effect benifit from SS rectification seems to be no magic second hour sound effect. My amp is sounding about 98% as good as it ever gets from startup. There isn't a big leap forward in quality after the tubes warm up after an hour.


 
  
 Thanks, likewise congrats you found the holy grail rectifier that fixed a bunch of your problems  I think I'm done with upgrades. I do want to try out those SS plugs at some point just cause it's working so well for you. Waiting for the Utopia to break in.


----------



## jhljhl

Can you hear a difference? I find it odd this reviewer can't.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfa_gsj27Xg


----------



## jerick70

jhljhl said:


> Can you hear a difference? I find it odd this reviewer can't.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfa_gsj27Xg


 
  
 It's either that terrible A/B switch he is using or he's auditorilly challenged.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Can you hear a difference? I find it odd this reviewer can't.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfa_gsj27Xg


 

 Looks like he is using the Shangua (whatever it is) rectifier. That and the other tubes should only be used for burn in only. WA22 sounds average in stock tube form.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> Looks like he is using the Shangua (whatever it is) rectifier. That and the other tubes should only be used for burn in only. WA22 sounds average in stock tube form.




Even with the stock tubes I think there is a big difference between the WA22 and Schiit Asgard. I've owned both. The Asgard is very sterile and lifeless sounding.


----------



## jerick70

What does everyone think about these TS 6F8Gs on eBay? Do you think they are real TSs? 

http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=262618084080


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> What does everyone think about these TS 6F8Gs on eBay? Do you think they are real TSs?
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=262618084080




They might be labeled Tung-Sol however that is a Sylvania made tube (very average). You can tell by the ridges on the plates.


----------



## Porteroso

I'm interested in what glenn said. If there might be problems with this ss cap, when would they show up? Is it the sort of thing that would actually make the amp start blowing up in a year or 2? Or a better question, what will it do to driver/power tubes? Shorten their lives? That is the big question, as there is a finite supply of the good old driver/power tubes. Not all of us have 300 years' worth of tung sols. You would think that if the power is cleaner and more predictable, it would actually lengthen the life of the other tubes.


----------



## musicman59

badas said:


> They might be labeled Tung-Sol however that is a Sylvania made tube (very average). You can tell by the ridges on the plates.


 
 I agree. Those are not Tung-Sol. I don't think Tung-Sol made them with the gray glass.
 Those are basically these ones.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-6F8g-Sylvania-Tubes-NOS-NIB-Very-Strong-Matched-/282147419125?hash=item41b14bf3f5:g:qwYAAOSwdU1W9VVB


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> I'm interested in what glenn said. If there might be problems with this ss cap, when would they show up? Is it the sort of thing that would actually make the amp start blowing up in a year or 2? Or a better question, what will it do to driver/power tubes? Shorten their lives? That is the big question, as there is a finite supply of the good old driver/power tubes. Not all of us have 300 years' worth of tung sols. You would think that if the power is cleaner and more predictable, it would actually lengthen the life of the other tubes.


 

 I think it will lengthen the time of the tubes. Voltage fluctuation from the rectifier can't be good for anything electronic. SS is providing cleaner even power.
  
 The only thing that is warned about SS rectifiers and other tubes is a soft start. Where the full power from the rectifier is not added immediately to other tubes. My WA22 has a 22 second soft start which is fine. WU4GB also has a 2 second soft start built in which also helps.

 My drive and power tubes have never sounded so stable. I'm not pulling out the Weber Copper Cap anytime soon. Amp seems it's most stable and it sounds its best. So time will eventually tell.
 If my amp does eventually blow I've decided I would get it re-built and modified for the tubes I want.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> I think it will lengthen the time of the tubes. Voltage fluctuation from the rectifier can't be good for anything electronic. SS is providing cleaner even power.
> 
> The only thing that is warned about SS rectifiers and other tubes is a soft start. Where the full power from the rectifier is not added immediately to other tubes. My WA22 has a 22 second soft start which is fine. WU4GB also has a 2 second soft start built in which also helps.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Something I was pondering... If I get the best Taks for my WA5, that's about $1800. Now assuming there's some slow undetectable damage that happened over time, and you eventually need to get repair work done, how much would it cost and how much time/inconvenience to be without the amp? In other words if someone took the risk going this route, would you come out ahead in the event of a repair, vs buying the Taks and taking the sanctioned officially approved route? Then there's some evidence that this is likely to be a safe thing to do. May never need to send it in for repair. The damage risk is assuming that it was being run out of spec just enough to cause extended wear and tear.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> They might be labeled Tung-Sol however that is a Sylvania made tube (very average). You can tell by the ridges on the plates.







musicman59 said:


> I agree. Those are not Tung-Sol. I don't think Tung-Sol made them with the gray glass.
> Those are basically these ones.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-6F8g-Sylvania-Tubes-NOS-NIB-Very-Strong-Matched-/282147419125?hash=item41b14bf3f5:g:qwYAAOSwdU1W9VVB




I thought they didn't look right. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Something I was pondering... If I get the best Taks for my WA5, that's about $1800. Now assuming there's some slow undetectable damage that happened over time, and you eventually need to get repair work done, how much would it cost and how much time/inconvenience to be without the amp? In other words if someone took the risk going this route, would you come out ahead in the event of a repair, vs buying the Taks and taking the sanctioned officially approved route? Then there's some evidence that this is likely to be a safe thing to do. May never need to send it in for repair. The damage risk is assuming that it was being run out of spec just enough to cause extended wear and tear.


 

 There really isn't the type of electronics in a tube amp that will get damaged slowly. It's mainly just caps and stuff. There are some chips in the amps for signal etc however they won't draw their power from a tube. It will be from the mains power connection. The tube circuits have to be designed to take a wide range of tubes with different power specs. So there will be some tolerances. Obviously you can't just throw in any tube but there is wide range (hence the wide range of tubes on the Woo lists). Usually if a tube is way out of range then you get an explosion. Usually the caps and tube. If a tube is working it is likely to always work until it is worn out.
  
 With regards to the SS rectifier. The WU4GB is designed to copy a 5U4G rectifier as close as possible. I doubt the amp would know a difference. It is working in my WA22 (not sure about WA5 or others). As it is Solid State it should operate the same way forever and not need replacing. If my amp blows it is likely to be the other tubes faulting not the SS rectifier.
 There is an exception. The SS rectifier could be striping the filiments on the other tubes a little quicker. I doubt it. In that case the tubes will wear out quicker. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing until it happens. That is years away.

 That's my lame thoughts on it anyway.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> There really isn't the type of electronics in a tube amp that will get damaged slowly. It's mainly just caps and stuff. There are some chips in the amps for signal etc however they won't draw their power from a tube. It will be from the mains power connection. The tube circuits have to be designed to take a wide range of tubes with different power specs. So there will be some tolerances. Obviously you can't just throw in any tube but there is wide range (hence the wide range of tubes on the Woo lists). Usually if a tube is way out of range then you get an explosion. Usually the caps and tube. If a tube is working it is likely to always work until it is worn out.
> 
> With regards to the SS rectifier. The WU4GB is designed to copy a 5U4G rectifier as close as possible. I doubt the amp would know a difference. It is working in my WA22 (not sure about WA5 or others). As it is Solid State it should operate the same way forever and not need replacing. If my amp blows it is likely to be the other tubes faulting not the SS rectifier.
> There is an exception. The SS rectifier could be striping the filiments on the other tubes a little quicker. I doubt it. In that case the tubes will wear out quicker. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing until it happens. That is years away.
> ...


 
  
 They are used as drop in replacement for guitar amps so I'd assume it is more ok than not but having decided yet...


----------



## jerick70

I contacted Weber about the correct copper caps to use with the WA5-LE and they recommended that I use the WZ34.  It is supposed to be a direct drop in for the GZ34/5AR4. This cap drops 17V.  This will give a different sound than the WU4GB I would think.
  
 http://www.tedweber.com/wz34 
  
 What do you think about this recommendation?


----------



## Porteroso

jerick70 said:


> I contacted Weber about the correct copper caps to use with the WA5-LE and they recommended that I use the WZ34.  It is supposed to be a direct drop in for the GZ34/5AR4. This cap drops 17V.  This will give a different sound that the WU4GB I would think.
> 
> http://www.tedweber.com/wz34
> 
> What do you think about this recommendation?


 
 I'm waiting for someone else to try it, but I think it will be 5 years before anyone has put enough time into it to really satisfy all of us who are curious of its effects.
  
 I am still interested in what Glenn thinks, but I think he would want to know more about the internals before he really gave an opinion. If he was going to do it, I think it could definitely be a completely safe thing.
  
 All that to say, I'm in for one of the WZ34 for use in my WA6, so I will be another test monkey for you all.
  
 edit: btw, price with shipping came out to be 31.63


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> I'm waiting for someone else to try it, but I think it will be 5 years before anyone has put enough time into it to really satisfy all of us who are curious of its effects.
> 
> I am still interested in what Glenn thinks, but I think he would want to know more about the internals before he really gave an opinion. If he was going to do it, I think it could definitely be a completely safe thing.
> WU4GB
> ...


 
 I'm extremely tempted as well to try one of these SS rectifiers.
 I would like to hear your impressions when you've spent a sufficient amount of time with it.
 I just may jump in before your impressions, so I need to ask why you went with the WZ34 and not the WU4GB for the WA6? Seems you could go with either, but @Badas is having excellent results with the WU4GB. I'm a little confused on which to get???


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I contacted Weber about the correct copper caps to use with the WA5-LE and they recommended that I use the WZ34.  It is supposed to be a direct drop in for the GZ34/5AR4. This cap drops 17V.  This will give a different sound than the WU4GB I would think.
> 
> http://www.tedweber.com/wz34
> 
> What do you think about this recommendation?


 

 Yeah. That is likely to be an even better tube than the WU4GB that I tried. I will likely get a couple of these as well. I wanted to try the larger voltage drop first to make sure everything was okay. Now I'm 99% sure I will try the WZ34's. In theory you will get even better speed. Should be excellent.
 WU4GB is producing excellent results. More speed and detail than any other rectifier I have tried. So I might just sit on these for a few months more.
  


 Internal picture of a Weber Copper Cap.


----------



## 2359glenn

joseph69 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > I'm waiting for someone else to try it, but I think it will be 5 years before anyone has put enough time into it to really satisfy all of us who are curious of its effects.
> ...


 

 With the WA-6 I would go with the WU4GB. If all they use for the voltage drop is a resistor the less current the amp draws
 the less the voltage drop. And the WA-6 draws allot less current then a WA-22.
 Maybe even use the WR4 with 67 volts drop at 250ma or WY3 at 50 volts drop at 125ma with the WA-6 for safety.


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> With the WA-6 I would go with the WU4GB. If all they use for the voltage drop is a resistor the less current the amp draws
> the less the voltage drop. And the WA-6 draws allot less current then a WA-22.
> Maybe even use the WR4 with 67 volts drop at 250ma or WY3 at 50 volts drop at 125ma with the WA-6 for safety.


 
 Thank you for very informative input…much appreciated!


----------



## 2359glenn

People are planing to use these in a WA-5 there is 2 of them that will make the voltage drop 1/2 of the 17 volts.
 And to make things worse lets say a 300B = 80 ma if Woo is running them that hot. So that is a total of 160ma and maybe 20ma for the 2 6SN7s.
 That is a total of 180ma and 2 WZ34s will have a 17 volt drop at 450ma so it will not even be 1/2 of the 17 volt drop.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> People are planing to use these in a WA-5 there is 2 of them that will make the voltage drop 1/2 of the 17 volts.
> And to make things worse lets say a 300B = 80 ma if Woo is running them that hot. So that is a total of 160ma and maybe 20ma for the 2 6SN7s.
> That is a total of 180ma and 2 WZ34s will have a 17 volt drop at 450ma so it will not even be 1/2 of the 17 volt drop.


 

 Geez. That gets confusing.
 I'm just going to stay with WU4GB in my WA22. It sounds great (best rectifier so far) and it runs cool. Those other SS rectifiers almost turned my amp into a volcano. They ran the amp very hot. WZ34 could possibly do the same as it has less voltage drop.
  
 I did another 2.5 hour session last night. Used my LCD-3C's which require more volume. Volume at 2/3rds with no issues. Loving the extra detail from SS rectification. No noise, buzz or hum from any of the other tubes. Amp ran at normal temp.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> 2359glenn said:
> 
> 
> > People are planing to use these in a WA-5 there is 2 of them that will make the voltage drop 1/2 of the 17 volts.
> ...


 

 If the WU4 sounds good stay with it don't go with a lower voltage drop that can harm your amp.


----------



## jerick70

2359glenn said:


> If the WU4 sounds good stay with it don't go with a lower voltage drop that can harm your amp.




Thanks for the explanation Glenn. I'll get the WU4GB then. I don't want to take a chance with my new amp.


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> If the WU4 sounds good stay with it don't go with a lower voltage drop that can harm your amp.


 
 I know were speaking of 2 different amps, but now I'm really confused on which one to get for the WA6?


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I know were speaking of 2 different amps, but now I'm really confused on which one to get for the WA6?


 

 WU4GB


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> I know were speaking of 2 different amps, but now I'm really confused on which one to get for the WA6?


 
  
  


badas said:


> WU4GB


 

 I agree with @Badas WU4GB.  The smaller voltage drop on the WZ34 will put your amp at risk.


----------



## ymc226

badas said:


> Geez. That gets confusing.
> I'm just going to stay with WU4GB in my WA22. It sounds great (best rectifier so far) and it runs cool. Those other SS rectifiers almost turned my amp into a volcano. They ran the amp very hot. WZ34 could possibly do the same as it has less voltage drop.
> 
> I did another 2.5 hour session last night. Used my LCD-3C's which require more volume. Volume at 2/3rds with no issues. Loving the extra detail from SS rectification. No noise, buzz or hum from any of the other tubes. Amp ran at normal temp.


 

 Badas,  I'm planning on getting the WU4GB for my WA5-LE as well.  When you refer to the amp running hot, what part of the amp are you referring to and how are you measuring it?  I know there are infra red thermometers used to read the water when fly fishing.  I would want to use my EML rectifiers first, gauge the temperature and then switch to the Webers eventually but would like to know where on the amp I should be mindful of using as a baseline.


----------



## Badas

ymc226 said:


> Badas,  I'm planning on getting the WU4GB for my WA5-LE as well.  When you refer to the amp running hot, what part of the amp are you referring to and how are you measuring it?  I know there are infra red thermometers used to read the water when fly fishing.  I would want to use my EML rectifiers first, gauge the temperature and then switch to the Webers eventually but would like to know where on the amp I should be mindful of using as a baseline.


 

  
 See the Weber Copper Cap in the middle. The Transformer behind it.
 With a normal SS rectifier (I grabbed a couple) after about an hour that transformer got hot. I just touched it. That was my tool. I touched the back of it so I didn't burn my hand on the tubes. It got so hot that the whole amp started to get hot. Even the front panel. Evidently that lack of voltage drop on normal SS rectifiers heats the transformers. That is why it is better to use the WU4GB. It has the best voltage drop and copies the 5U4GB rectifier.

 With the WU4GB that transformer goes from room temp to warm after about 2 hours. It doesn't get any warmer than my TAK274B.
  
 So on the WA5 you want to touch the two transformers located behind the rectifier spot. Warms okay. Volcano hot is not.
  
 Edit: Oh! guys. That copper part of the Copper Cap gets very hot. Don't touch it. I suggest using a tube save like I have pictured above to keep the heat away from the amp body. If you have some use them. If not then you should be okay. I kinda like those copper saves as it compliments the copper caps (now I'm being girly).


----------



## ymc226

badas said:


> See the Weber Copper Cap in the middle. The Transformer behind it.
> With a normal SS rectifier (I grabbed a couple) after about an hour that transformer got hot. I just touched it. That was my tool. I touched the back of it so I didn't burn my hand on the tubes. It got so hot that the whole amp started to get hot. Even the front panel. Evidently that lack of voltage drop on normal SS rectifiers heats the transformers. That is why it is better to use the WU4GB. It has the best voltage drop and copies the 5U4GB rectifier.
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot Badas. I predict there will be a run on the WU4GBs in the near future. My order is already shipped as your experience significantly peaked my interest.


----------



## Badas

ymc226 said:


> Thanks a lot Badas. I predict there will be a run on the WU4GBs in the near future. My order is already shipped as your experience significantly peaked my interest.


 

 I'm very interested in other opinions. As I thought it brought my WA22 to life. Vastly improved.

 One thing that does occur to me is the WA5 uses two rectifiers and has two transformers. There is a possibility that performs a lot better than the one and one in the WA22. The improvement might not be as great.


----------



## phonyx

badas said:


> I'm very interested in other opinions. As I thought it brought my WA22 to life. Vastly improved.
> 
> 
> One thing that does occur to me is the WA5 uses two rectifiers and has two transformers. There is a possibility that performs a lot better than the one and one in the WA22. The improvement might not be as great.




Yep it has 2 rectifier tubes and 2 transformers, I am not sure of the circuit here but wonder if each tube drives one transformer, thereby power the amp section in a dual-mono kind of arrangement therefore not halving the voltage drop by running parallel. In any case, with mine running 34GBZ tubes those transformers don't get over what feels like room temp. I'm not running my amp hard though as 8 o'clock on the volume with my headphones is loud enough.


----------



## 2359glenn

phonyx said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very interested in other opinions. As I thought it brought my WA22 to life. Vastly improved.
> ...


 

 Only one of those transformers are the power transformer that feeds both rectifier tubes.


----------



## jerick70

I ordered two WU4GB and they shipped today.  I'll have it in a few days.  I'll report back on how it sounds with the WA5-LE.


----------



## leftside

I ordered one today as well


----------



## jhljhl

jerick70 said:


> I ordered two WU4GB and they shipped today.  I'll have it in a few days.  I'll report back on how it sounds with the WA5-LE.


 
  


leftside said:


> I ordered one today as well


 
  
 Back in the day I was going to buy one for my fender deluxe reverb... years later never expected to debate buying one for a hi-fi amp lol.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I ordered two WU4GB and they shipped today.  I'll have it in a few days.  I'll report back on how it sounds with the WA5-LE.







leftside said:


> I ordered one today as well







jhljhl said:


> Back in the day I was going to buy one for my fender deluxe reverb... years later never expected to debate buying one for a hi-fi amp lol.




Nervously awaiting second, third and fourth opinions. Hopefully members will like them.

I for one will not go back to a tube rectifier. Those days are done.


----------



## leftside

Going to sell your rectifiers or keep them as collectors items? I've got a bunch of NOS/NIB rarities (power, driver and rectifier tubes) that I seem to have accumulated that I'll be keeping.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Going to sell your rectifiers or keep them as collectors items? I've got a bunch of NOS/NIB rarities (power, driver and rectifier tubes) that I seem to have accumulated that I'll be keeping.




Not sure yet. I might flick off one TAK274B. I don't need two now. 
I probably have over 50 sets of various tubes I have tried that I will never use. When I'm not lazy I will sort them out and sell them. It's better for someone else to use them than sit in my collection.


----------



## jerick70

I received my WA5 today.  Listening right now.  First impressions are SUBLIME!!!!  Separation of the instruments is ridiculous, the best I've heard from a headphone amp.  I'm listening to John Coltrane's "Blue Train" album.  I can pinpoint each instrument out of the ensemble.  They are placed perfectly.  The brass sounds like brass and I can pick out each pluck of the bass strings.  Very clear and concise and CLEAN. FAST!  BLACK background! It drives my HE-6s with aplomb. VERY impressed so far.  Sorry to break it to you, It buries my WA22 and I'm using stock tubes with the WA5. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can't imagine what it's going to be like with some top tier tubes.


----------



## jhljhl

jerick70 said:


> I received my WA5 today.  Listening right now.  First impressions are SUBLIME!!!!  Separation of the instruments is ridiculous, the best I've heard from of a headphone amp.  I'm listening to John Coltrane's "Blue Train" album.  I can pinpoint each instrument out of the ensemble.  They are placed perfectly.  The brass sounds like brass and I can pick out each pluck of the bass strings.  Very clear and concise and CLEAN. FAST!  BLACK background! It drives my HE-6s with aplomb. VERY impressed so far.  Sorry to break it to you, It buries my WA22 and I'm using stock tubes with the WA5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those were my initial findings as well lol.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I received my WA5 today.  Listening right now.  First impressions are SUBLIME!!!!  Separation of the instruments is ridiculous, the best I've heard from of a headphone amp.  I'm listening to John Coltrane's "Blue Train" album.  I can pinpoint each instrument out of the ensemble.  They are placed perfectly.  The brass sounds like brass and I can pick out each pluck of the bass strings.  Very clear and concise and CLEAN. FAST!  BLACK background! It drives my HE-6s with aplomb. VERY impressed so far.  Sorry to break it to you, It buries my WA22 and I'm using stock tubes with the WA5. :atsmile: I can't imagine what it's going to be like with some top tier tubes.




Congrats


----------



## jerick70

Two words come to mind after listening to the WA5-LE for an extended period.  BLOWN AWAY!!!!!!  It brings the emotion back to my music.  I think this is what reviewers have tried to explain in a few reviews I've read about perfect PRAT.  I've never understood what they were talking about, but now I do.  This is the best purchase I've made in headphone audio thus far.   
  
 Andrea Bocelli and Sarah Brightman sounds GLORIOUS!!!!


----------



## Vigrith

jerick70 said:


> Andrea Bocelli and Sarah Brightman sounds GLORIOUS!!!!


 
  
 That is a wonderful song, one of my favourites for sure. Sounds good fantastic through my Fireflies too, not quite on WA5-LE level but still! I hope you enjoy it very much!
  
(oops, typo)


----------



## phonyx

jerick70 said:


> I received my WA5 today.  Listening right now.  First impressions are SUBLIME!!!!  Separation of the instruments is ridiculous, the best I've heard from a headphone amp.  I'm listening to John Coltrane's "Blue Train" album.  I can pinpoint each instrument out of the ensemble.  They are placed perfectly.  The brass sounds like brass and I can pick out each pluck of the bass strings.  Very clear and concise and CLEAN. FAST!  BLACK background! It drives my HE-6s with aplomb. VERY impressed so far.  Sorry to break it to you, It buries my WA22 and I'm using stock tubes with the WA5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with everything you just said. Glad you have one now and can enjoy it as much as the rest of us can


----------



## jerick70

vigrith said:


> That is a wonderful song, one of my favourites for sure. Sounds good fantastic through my Fireflies too, not quite on WA5-LE level but still! I hope you enjoy it very much!
> 
> (oops, typo)


 

 It's one of my favorite song too.  Kudos on the WA7 it's a very nice amp.


----------



## jerick70

phonyx said:


> I agree with everything you just said. Glad you have one now and can enjoy it as much as the rest of us can


 
  
 Thanks @phonyx the WA5 is in another league from any other headamp I've used.


----------



## phonyx

jerick70 said:


> Thanks @phonyx the WA5 is in another league from any other headamp I've used.


 
  
 Same with me, I was getting a little down as I couldn't find anything I was really happy with. Then I tried the WA5 as a last resort and it totally floored me. As in, mouth hanging open listening to music I've heard many times before. Mine's got upgraded tubes but nothing too fancy. You don't need to spend the amp's price again on tubes to get brilliant sound.


----------



## Arcamera

Hi All, I haven't been able to follow all of this thread-- so apologies if this has already been discussed: Just wondering if any Woo amp owners are pairing them with the new Focal Elear and Utopia 'phones. Any reports on optimal amp/tubes synergy in the Woo line?
  
 Also, I've been a happy owner of the 3, 6, and 2 for a while now, used with various headphones and for different applications. I'm hoping to upgrade in the not too distant future though, funds permitting. I'm considering the 22 (heard it and liked it a lot)-- or should I save a little more and go for the 5LE? I'm wanting an amp that would be excellent with both the likes of the HD800 (for classical) and the ATW3000ANV or the AQ Nighthawks, etc. (for everything else). Or possibly getting one or both of the Focals. Any thoughts on how best to upgrade next would be appreciated. Thanks. (BTW, I'm good with my source for now-- an Arcam CD37 CD/SACD player).


----------



## jerick70

arcamera said:


> Hi All, I haven't been able to follow all of this thread-- so apologies if this has already been discussed: Just wondering if any Woo amp owners are pairing them with the new Focal Elear and Utopia 'phones. Any reports on optimal amp/tubes synergy in the Woo line?
> 
> Also, I've been a happy owner of the 3, 6, and 2 for a while now, used with various headphones and for different applications. I'm hoping to upgrade in the not too distant future though, funds permitting. I'm considering the 22 (heard it and liked it a lot)-- or should I save a little more and go for the 5LE? I'm wanting an amp that would be excellent with both the likes of the HD800 (for classical) and the ATW3000ANV or the AQ Nighthawks, etc. (for everything else). Or possibly getting one or both of the Focals. Any thoughts on how best to upgrade next would be appreciated. Thanks. (BTW, I'm good with my source for now-- an Arcam CD37 CD/SACD player).




I recommend going straight to the WA5-LE. It's worth the extra money. It's in a whole different league from the WA22. PURE BUTTERY BLISS! You won't be disappointed.


----------



## musicman59

arcamera said:


> Hi All, I haven't been able to follow all of this thread-- so apologies if this has already been discussed: Just wondering if any Woo amp owners are pairing them with the new Focal Elear and Utopia 'phones. Any reports on optimal amp/tubes synergy in the Woo line?
> 
> Also, I've been a happy owner of the 3, 6, and 2 for a while now, used with various headphones and for different applications. I'm hoping to upgrade in the not too distant future though, funds permitting. I'm considering the 22 (heard it and liked it a lot)-- or should I save a little more and go for the 5LE? I'm wanting an amp that would be excellent with both the likes of the HD800 (for classical) and the ATW3000ANV or the AQ Nighthawks, etc. (for everything else). Or possibly getting one or both of the Focals. Any thoughts on how best to upgrade next would be appreciated. Thanks. (BTW, I'm good with my source for now-- an Arcam CD37 CD/SACD player).



I have the WA5-LE v1 and own the HD800, W3000ANV and just retrun the Elear to upgrade to the Utopia after I had a loaner at home. In all three cases the WA5-LE is a great match.
I have no experience in the AQ. I listened to them twice at shows and are not my cup of tea.


----------



## phase0

I have the Utopia + the WA5 ... I'm past around 200 hrs of burn in on the utopia. I think it sounds amazing with the WA5... Then again I left it plugged into my Denon receiver for the burn in and I also thought that sounded really good (like wait why did I go buy the ridiculously expensive amp and dac again?) I go through moods where I think it's better through the V281 or the WA5. Anyways when I want it the best I'm usually on the WA5...


----------



## pervysage

phase0 said:


> I have the Utopia + the WA5 ... I'm past around 200 hrs of burn in on the utopia. I think it sounds amazing with the WA5... Then again I left it plugged into my Denon receiver for the burn in and I also thought that sounded really good (like wait why did I go buy the ridiculously expensive amp and dac again?) I go through moods where I think it's better through the V281 or the WA5. Anyways when I want it the best I'm usually on the WA5...




I think the Utopia would sound great on a lot of setups. Because they are so neutral and yet have kind of a euphoric quality to them. Therefore they don't need the source/amp to "fix" the flaws of the headphone cough*HD800*cough.


----------



## davehg

As the owner of Jerick's former WA22, I am looking forward to when he tires of the WA5 and emails me that it is for sale.


----------



## Porteroso

Got my copper cap today. I guess I should have waited for glenn to say which I should get, but well, I didn't. I'll probably use it some, and when I can, get the version glenn said to get.
  
 First impressions are that it is pretty good. I will need to do some more listening. The general sound is definitely cleaner, but I will need to go back and forth some to really see what I think about it. So far, everything seems to be more precise. At first, I didn't like it. But as I keep listening, I think overall the sound is improved. Faster is not always better, but the WA6 is handling complex passages much better. Bass is simply far better. Extends further, is cleaner, faster, more precise, all of it. Timpani in particular is so much better. Quiet rumblings of timpani are actually placed, instead of me just hearing something, down there, that sounds like timpani.
  
 Btw, coming from a U52 rectifier, using NU 6C8G atm, in the WA6, with Grado PS500. I haven't listened to the U52 in months now, but I think I know what it sounds like in general. If the 30 dollar cap can beat the U52, which I cannot afford to replace, then I guess I'm happy.
  
 edit: Ya, it's not just a huge improvement, but in every register, there is a slight improvement. I'm sure that I'm somewhat limited by the amp itself.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> Got my copper cap today. I guess I should have waited for glenn to say which I should get, but well, I didn't. I'll probably use it some, and when I can, get the version glenn said to get.
> 
> First impressions are that it is pretty good. I will need to do some more listening. The general sound is definitely cleaner, but I will need to go back and forth some to really see what I think about it. So far, everything seems to be more precise. At first, I didn't like it. But as I keep listening, I think overall the sound is improved. Faster is not always better, but the WA6 is handling complex passages much better. Bass is simply far better. Extends further, is cleaner, faster, more precise, all of it. Timpani in particular is so much better. Quiet rumblings of timpani are actually placed, instead of me just hearing something, down there, that sounds like timpani.
> 
> Btw, coming from a U52 rectifier, using NU 6C8G atm, in the WA6, with Grado PS500. I haven't listened to the U52 in months now, but I think I know what it sounds like in general. If the 30 dollar cap can beat the U52, which I cannot afford to replace, then I guess I'm happy.


 
 Good to hear the positive impressions so far.
 Which did you get, the WU4GB? If so, how is the WA6 reacting in terms of temperature?


----------



## Porteroso

joseph69 said:


> Good to hear the positive impressions so far.
> Which did you get, the WU4GB? If so, how is the WA6 reacting in terms of temperature?


 
 I got the WZ34. The amp itself says it's designed for 5AR4, so I figured getting a dropin designed to replace that would be best. If I had to do it again, I would get what Glenn said to get.
  
 Since he said this might not be enough voltage drop, I'm a little scared, so I ran the amp for maybe 30 minutes. The temperature was fine, I didn't notice anything getting hot, just touching the outside of the amp. Also, the copper cap remained cool to the touch. Maybe it heats up after more than 20 or 30 minutes, I don't know. I'll run it some more later.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> I got the WZ34. The amp itself says it's designed for 5AR4, so I figured getting a dropin designed to replace that would be best. If I had to do it again, I would get what Glenn said to get.
> 
> Since he said this might not be enough voltage drop, I'm a little scared, so I ran the amp for maybe 30 minutes. The temperature was fine, I didn't notice anything getting hot, just touching the outside of the amp. Also, the copper cap remained cool to the touch. Maybe it heats up after more than 20 or 30 minutes, I don't know. I'll run it some more later.


 
 Thanks for the info. 
 Looking forward to more.


----------



## leftside

davehg said:


> As the owner of Jerick's former WA22, I am looking forward to when he tires of the WA5 and emails me that it is for sale.


 

 You shouldn't have too much longer to wait. WA22 SE will be out soon.
  
 WA22 can be a little temperamental (though a lot of us have had good success with various combos of tubes - for me it's 4 * 6BL7's + 2 * ECC32's or 2 * B65's + "a number of different rectifiers"). There is some debate on whether 6SN7's are the ideal tubes to drive 300B's (search this forum) for the WA5 (though all forum members seem to love theirs). Perhaps the WA22 SE will "get it right"?


----------



## jerick70

I've had my copper caps for a few days.  I've only been able to listen to them for a short period of time though.  Initial impressions are very positive.  The clarity and detail really shine.  It's like the entire sound is cleaned up from top to bottom.  That last little bit of grain is gone and replaced with smooth pure goodness.  It makes the WA5 even more of a precision microscope and increases the resolution further.  The funny thing is I didn't notice the graininess until I put these in.  Good find @Badas.


----------



## jhljhl

jerick70 said:


> I've had my copper caps for a few days.  I've only been able to listen to them for a short period of time though.  Initial impressions are very positive.  The clarity and detail really shine.  It's like the entire sound is cleaned up from top to bottom.  That last little bit of grain is gone and replaced with smooth pure goodness.  The funny thing is I didn't notice the graininess until I put these in.  Good find @Badas
> .




I wouldn't think there would be a problem running these either as they are drop in replacements.


----------



## jerick70

jhljhl said:


> I wouldn't think there would be a problem running these either as they are drop in replacements.


 

  I think you are right about that. My WA5s power supply is running very cool.  The copper caps are warm to hot to the touch.


----------



## jerick70

The copper caps and the WA5 are a very handsome pair.....


----------



## jerick70

phonyx said:


> Same with me, I was getting a little down as I couldn't find anything I was really happy with. Then I tried the WA5 as a last resort and it totally floored me. As in, mouth hanging open listening to music I've heard many times before. Mine's got upgraded tubes but nothing too fancy. You don't need to spend the amp's price again on tubes to get brilliant sound.


 
  
 I second that feeling of "floored me".  It is an incredible amp.  I recommend the Weber WU4GB copper caps.  They really enhance the audio quite a bit.  I was running Brimar 5Z4Gs.


----------



## jerick70

davehg said:


> As the owner of Jerick's former WA22, I am looking forward to when he tires of the WA5 and emails me that it is for sale.


 
  
@davehg I hope you are enjoying your new WA22.  
  
 LOL....  I doubt my WA5 will be up for sale any time soon, but never say never.  There is RMAF in a few weeks and I may find something there that peaks my interest......  But I promised myself that I was done with this buying circus....


----------



## a1uc

jerick70 said:


> @davehg
> I hope you are enjoying your new WA22.
> 
> LOL....  I doubt my WA5 will be up for sale any time soon, but never say never.  There is RMAF in a few weeks and I may find something there that peaks my interest......  But I promised myself that I was done with this buying circus....  :confused_face_2:


 I love my WA5LE I'm using the TAK 300B TAK 274B and VT231 Tungsol round plates

Congrats on your purchase of the WA5LE


----------



## phase0

jerick70 said:


> I second that feeling of "floored me".  It is an incredible amp.  I recommend the Weber WU4GB copper caps.  They really enhance the audio quite a bit.  I was running Brimar 5Z4Gs.


 
  
 After you guys have some more time on them I'd love to hear some more feedback on your thoughts in the WA5, any changing in temperature/etc...
  
 Now after Mike and Jack explicitly said none of us should run these... Do you all feel like naughty rebellious children running out and buying these? As all these positive comments roll in I want to go join the party.
  


jerick70 said:


> @davehg I hope you are enjoying your new WA22.
> 
> LOL....  I doubt my WA5 will be up for sale any time soon, but never say never.  There is RMAF in a few weeks and I may find something there that peaks my interest......  But I promised myself that I was done with this buying circus....


 
  
 Yea that was my justification too. Long term done and done. Got the high end amp so I can forget about shopping and temptation.


----------



## artemart

phase0 said:


> After you guys have some more time on them I'd love to hear some more feedback on your thoughts in the WA5, any changing in temperature/etc...
> 
> Now after Mike and Jack explicitly said none of us should run these... Do you all feel like naughty rebellious children running out and buying these? As all these positive comments roll in I want to go join the party.


 
  
 I have talked to Woo audio and I they told me they simply do not know if this will work or not and since this is not a standard tube you should not be using it.


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> I have talked to Woo audio and I they told me they simply do not know if this will work or not and since this is not a standard tube you should not be using it.




There's the key. They don't know. For the price of them they should buy one and find out. Heck they could even sell their version for guys who want to have a SS Rectifer hybrid amp. 

It's just like the 6BL7 power tube. Woo says no and now there are stacks of guys using them. I used it for 6 months wth no issues.

For the record my amp has used it for 25 individual sessions now. Number 26 is working right now. It has never sounded so great.

Good to see some more impressions. Looks kinda positive impressions. Nice to know it wasn't just me and others a loving the sound also.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Now after Mike and Jack explicitly said none of us should run these... Do you all feel like naughty rebellious children running out and buying these? As all these positive comments roll in I want to go join the party.




Yeah. I feel kinda naughty. However I think who cares. It's all about the sound. 

I actually feel good about it as Woo left me in the cold about having a very noisy sounding WA22 (after all the contact they never replied). Now it seems obvious that the noise is a rectfier issue not power tubes like I thought. As all noise is now gone. It seems my WA22 won't stay quiet with a tube rectifier. So in a way I feel justified being naughty. 
When I get to it I will roll in sets of power tubes that were noisy and see if the SS rectification fixes them.


----------



## phonyx

phase0 said:


> After you guys have some more time on them I'd love to hear some more feedback on your thoughts in the WA5, any changing in temperature/etc...
> 
> Now after Mike and Jack explicitly said none of us should run these... Do you all feel like naughty rebellious children running out and buying these? As all these positive comments roll in I want to go join the party.
> 
> ...




If I've learned anything, it's that there is no TOTL gear. Tastes change, we get bored of things. Even stellar, amazing things. Look at all the supermodels with ex husbands/wives. Audio gear, photography gear, cars, its all the same. At some point we tire and say I want something different. The upside if that is the resale on high end gear allows a side grade into other pretty awesome gear so it's all fun!

In saying that, I grabbed a DAC/amp package from a local guy yesterday. I really wanted the DAC but got the amp as well, thought I'd try it and flip it for fun after a couple weeks. It's blown me away, however. It's a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. For the money it comes scarily close to WA5 territory. Like 80% of the way... For an $799 amp that's mental. I appreciate closing that gap is incredibly expensive but to be as good as it is at that price point is just wow. I'm really keen to hear something more high end from them like the liquid gold for example. No hassle (but sadly also no romance or rolling) of tubes and gorgeous sound whenever you hit the button has a lot of appeal. 



badas said:


> Yeah. I feel kinda naughty. However I think who cares. It's all about the sound.
> 
> I actually feel good about it as Woo left me in the cold about having a very noisy sounding WA22 (after all the contact they never replied). Now it seems obvious that the noise is a rectfier issue not power tubes like I thought. As all noise is now gone. It seems my WA22 won't stay quiet with a tube rectifier. So in a way I feel justified being naughty.
> When I get to it I will roll in sets of power tubes that were noisy and see if the SS rectification fixes them.




The WA22 I auditioned (a demo unit at a store) was also noisy. I pointed it out to them as next to the WA6/6SE and WA5 it was super loud. Might have been old tubes or perhaps a similar issue to yours. Awful that you weren't seen to and the issue corrected though, very disappointing to hear.


----------



## jerick70

phase0 said:


> After you guys have some more time on them I'd love to hear some more feedback on your thoughts in the WA5, any changing in temperature/etc...
> 
> Now after Mike and Jack explicitly said none of us should run these... Do you all feel like naughty rebellious children running out and buying these? As all these positive comments roll in I want to go join the party.
> 
> ...


 
  
 FYI, I'm using the WU4GBs.  And yes I feel really naughty!  But the sound is so worth it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Did you get the premium parts upgrade too?  I debated but have had very mediocre results on my other tubes amps so passed.  For the price I could have a pair of Focal Elears and a few tubes.


----------



## jhljhl

phonyx said:


> If I've learned anything, it's that there is no TOTL gear. Tastes change, we get bored of things. Even stellar, amazing things. Look at all the supermodels with ex husbands/wives. Audio gear, photography gear, cars, its all the same. At some point we tire and say I want something different. The upside if that is the resale on high end gear allows a side grade into other pretty awesome gear so it's all fun!
> 
> In saying that, I grabbed a DAC/amp package from a local guy yesterday. I really wanted the DAC but got the amp as well, thought I'd try it and flip it for fun after a couple weeks. It's blown me away, however. It's a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. For the money it comes scarily close to WA5 territory. Like 80% of the way... For an $799 amp that's mental. I appreciate closing that gap is incredibly expensive but to be as good as it is at that price point is just wow. I'm really keen to hear something more high end from them like the liquid gold for example. No hassle (but sadly also no romance or rolling) of tubes and gorgeous sound whenever you hit the button has a lot of appeal.
> The WA22 I auditioned (a demo unit at a store) was also noisy. I pointed it out to them as next to the WA6/6SE and WA5 it was super loud. Might have been old tubes or perhaps a similar issue to yours. Awful that you weren't seen to and the issue corrected though, very disappointing to hear.


 
  
 That is the law of diminishing returns; chasing that last 10-20%. And generally speaking since there is no retail store to carefully audition whatever you are in the market for higher tier or mid tier models you're likely to have to sell one model to try another. I suppose I'll move on to the Eddie current BA or Studio Jr or the Glenn 300b as also the cost of ownership is also less (less tubes! to replace) over the wa5.


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> Yeah. I feel kinda naughty. However I think who cares. It's all about the sound.
> 
> I actually feel good about it as Woo left me in the cold about having a very noisy sounding WA22 (after all the contact they never replied). Now it seems obvious that the noise is a rectfier issue not power tubes like I thought. As all noise is now gone. It seems my WA22 won't stay quiet with a tube rectifier. So in a way I feel justified being naughty.
> When I get to it I will roll in sets of power tubes that were noisy and see if the SS rectification fixes them.


 

 Badas that sucks , your not the only one trust me . I bought a pair of Aybss headphones from Woo Audio the day I got them one side didnt work for the first 10 min and then it started to work , I contacted Mike right away about the issue and was made to feel like I was lying and was told to see if it happens again , well it did a month later so I contacted them again . All I can tell you is wow what a joke for customer service , lucky I had used PayPal because I had to file a Claim . I could go on and on but I wont thread crap .
  
 Also me and Mike spoke on the phone and email very often , then when this issue came up he ignored totally and had Jack send me an email saying Mike does not want to talk to you ." Baby "


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> Badas that sucks , your not the only one trust me . I bought a pair of Aybss headphones from Woo Audio the day I got them one side didnt work for the first 10 min and then it started to work , I contacted Mike right away about the issue and was made to feel like I was lying and was told to see if it happens again , well it did a month later so I contacted them again . All I can tell you is wow what a joke for customer service , lucky I had used PayPal because I had to file a Claim . I could go on and on but I wont thread crap .
> 
> Also me and Mike spoke on the phone and email very often , then when this issue came up he ignored totally and had Jack send me an email saying Mike does not want to talk to you ." Baby "


 

 Wow!
  
 Future Woo Audio purchasers need to know this. It seems to pop up often.
 If you get a Woo that works then great for you. If you don't you are on your own. That's how it works.


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> Wow!
> 
> Future Woo Audio purchasers need to know this. It seems to pop up often.
> If you get a Woo that works then great for you. If you don't you are on your own. That's how it works.


 
 Bad part is there was another guy on here awhile back that had some issues and I stuck up for Woo Audio , Now I feel bad for being hard on the guy . I started out with the WA22 and was so happy with it I modded it  and could not wait to move up the line , then I got a WA5LE V2 and love it so much I was going to order the Woo WA234 to go with my Totaldac Twelve . I am now ordering next week a Chord Dave instead for my office .
  
 I wanted to compare the Twelve to the Dave anyways so it worked out


----------



## HiFiGuy528

a1uc said:


> Badas that sucks , your not the only one trust me . I bought a pair of Aybss headphones from Woo Audio the day I got them one side didnt work for the first 10 min and then it started to work , I contacted Mike right away about the issue and was made to feel like I was lying and was told to see if it happens again , well it did a month later so I contacted them again . All I can tell you is wow what a joke for customer service , lucky I had used PayPal because I had to file a Claim . I could go on and on but I wont thread crap .
> 
> Also me and Mike spoke on the phone and email very often , then when this issue came up he ignored totally and had Jack send me an email saying Mike does not want to talk to you ." Baby "


 
  
 You are not telling the entire story. I have treated you with the most respect and spent many many many... HOURS helping you even on non Woo Audio products. Some days you call a few times. Jack and I have gone above and beyond helping you in the form of discounts and fast shipping. You turned around and filed a Pay Pal claim on your purchase without giving us a chance to work with you. *You have ZERO respect for me or Jack.* I am getting upset now so I'll stop here...


----------



## WooAudio

a1uc said:


> Bad part is there was another guy on here awhile back that had some issues and I stuck up for Woo Audio , Now I feel bad for being hard on the guy . I started out with the WA22 and was so happy with it I modded it  and could not wait to move up the line , then I got a WA5LE V2 and love it so much I was going to order the Woo WA234 to go with my Totaldac Twelve . I am now ordering next week a Chord Dave instead for my office .
> 
> I wanted to compare the Twelve to the Dave anyways so it worked out





Your Abyss worked perfectly. No problem whatsoever. 

You phoned every U.S. Abyss dealer to get a better price (more than what we gave you) then you filed a PayPal claim just so that you could return the product.


----------



## Porteroso

hifiguy528 said:


> You are not telling the entire story. I have treated you with the most respect and spent many many many... HOURS helping you even on non Woo Audio products. Some days you call a few times. Jack and I have gone above and beyond helping you in the form of discounts and fast shipping. You turned around and filed a Pay Pal claim on your purchase without giving us a chance to work with you. *You have ZERO respect for me or Jack.* I am getting upset now so I'll stop here...


 
 We all have to remember that people are just people. You have to take everything you read with a grain of salt. There are very few frustrated people who really think they have no reason to be frustrated... Even getting both sides telling their part, you don't really know anything.
  
 All I know is that Woo has been pretty helpful when I have emailed them.
  
 And I know that all of us here love our Woo amps. They are made well, they are aesthetic, and badas had the only issue I've ever been aware of, come to find out, not a problem with the amp itself, just the rectifier and/or its implementation. Not surprising that solid state rectification solves many issues.
  
 On to the copper caps, I'm starting to listen more, and for me, coming from the U52, there really isn't a lot of difference. I think it mainly comes down to presentation. I would describe the U52 as euphonic, lush, great detail. The copper cap, I don't think it is euphonic. I think that any "musicality" is coming from the power/driver tubes now. What it is, is clean, fast, dynamic, and detailed. And I think that for the price, it is all that anyone should buy. Obviously we are still in the baby stages of trying it out. We all need to do a lot more listening, and put a lot more hours into our amps with these copper tubes, before we say that they are safe to use.
  
 I also do not think that asking Woo about it will be of any help. They will rightfully say to not use it, because they do not make that product, cannot guarantee that the amp will be fine with it, and why would they test it? They have a stockpile of sophia princesses, Takatsukis, they make money off of that, and encouraging others to use a 30 dollar copper cap is not in their best interests. Cannot blame them.
  
 edit: Also, if one channel doesn't work in your headphones, maybe you didn't plug them in all the way.... I've never heard of a wire soldering itself, or a connection becoming 100% stable after not working for 10 minutes.


----------



## a1uc

Thats BS and you know it shame on you , I called every dealer in the US to find a new pair since the ones you sold me were junk , and I didnt look for a better price I paid full retail .
 Only 1 dealer had a pair
  
 FULL PRICE SEE
  
 You want to come on here and outright lie it just shows the type of person you are . Im going to drop it now on this forum ,  but I will be taking other actions now since you decided to lie about what really took place
  
 I have the emails from when I contacted Mike the 1st day I got the headphones and reported the problem , you should of took care of it then but you told me to see if it did it again . Then a month later it did    oh wait maybe i didnt plug the cable in all the way that day


----------



## a1uc

porteroso said:


> We all have to remember that people are just people. You have to take everything you read with a grain of salt. There are very few frustrated people who really think they have no reason to be frustrated... Even getting both sides telling their part, you don't really know anything.
> 
> All I know is that Woo has been pretty helpful when I have emailed them.
> 
> ...


 

 Really ? didnt plug it in all the way are you serious ,  I took the cable out of the other side that was playing and plugged into the dead side and it still did not work .


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> Really ? didnt plug it in all the way are you serious ,  I took the cable out of the other side that was playing and plugged into the dead side and it still did not work .


 

 I'm with you on this one bud. This is the kinda twadle you get if you say boo! to Woo.
  
 Last time I was asked to take it out of the forums and contact them via PM or email direct. I did that and go no reply.

 Woo Audio's customer service is terrible. Do they actually have a customer service team or full time employee? It seems Mike is it and he does a lot of other stuff as well.


----------



## a1uc

I hear you one can only talk good about a company and as soon as one says something neg look out . Thats why Im dropping it here but I will be spending all next week on other forums and also posting my story along with all the emails etc on the web .
  
 I also will be sending a few places some emails letting them know how Mike trash talked them , oh yeah Mike is very good at trash talking .
  
 I didnt lie about one thing and Im made out to be the bad guy ? I got money I wasnt looking around for a deal I just wanted another pair of headphones that worked . I also have a copy of the email I sent to the Aybss dealers so give me some time and the truth will come out .
  
 Im done talking about it now carry on guys


----------



## phase0

phonyx said:


> If I've learned anything, it's that there is no TOTL gear. Tastes change, we get bored of things. Even stellar, amazing things. Look at all the supermodels with ex husbands/wives. Audio gear, photography gear, cars, its all the same. At some point we tire and say I want something different. The upside if that is the resale on high end gear allows a side grade into other pretty awesome gear so it's all fun!
> 
> In saying that, I grabbed a DAC/amp package from a local guy yesterday. I really wanted the DAC but got the amp as well, thought I'd try it and flip it for fun after a couple weeks. It's blown me away, however. It's a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. For the money it comes scarily close to WA5 territory. Like 80% of the way... For an $799 amp that's mental. I appreciate closing that gap is incredibly expensive but to be as good as it is at that price point is just wow. I'm really keen to hear something more high end from them like the liquid gold for example. No hassle (but sadly also no romance or rolling) of tubes and gorgeous sound whenever you hit the button has a lot of appeal.
> The WA22 I auditioned (a demo unit at a store) was also noisy. I pointed it out to them as next to the WA6/6SE and WA5 it was super loud. Might have been old tubes or perhaps a similar issue to yours. Awful that you weren't seen to and the issue corrected though, very disappointing to hear.


 
  
 Quite true. I heard the Carbon at RMAF and thought it was great. It's always hard to tell at show events vs at home how well it performs. I was really tempted to get one based off the demo and questioned if it wasn't good enough that I would even need the WA5, but alas since reeling from the cost of buy everything I just wasn't in the mood or place to buy anything else. Cavalli's high end is really good. I suppose different strokes for different folks or different flavor of ice cream if you're bored or tired of tubes.
  
 I also am at the point where I can tell something is a little different between A/B but I can't well articulate what I hear, and overall I think the change is fairly minor to where the costs IDK if it's really justified. Since I got it I want to keep it though. I tend to think the value really isn't there but then again I was curious about what was the best and I can convince myself that I can afford it in the headphone world (not in the 2-channel stereo world or home theater world). As I'm gaining more experience I'm also thinking I may be less picky than some folks. What I got is astoundingly good and I'm pretty happy. Even though there's still a couple notches up on the price scale out there for DACs and Amps (like MSB or the WA234), I feel like I'm at such diminishing returns from LCX-XC to Utopia (and that's not to say they aren't fantastic, they absolutely are amazing)... When I switch from Utopia back to LCD-XC I think I can kind of get where people call the LCD veiled. I know the tuning is a bit diff, etc, it's not as good, but it's also not IMO a big $2k step down. So I think at least for now I feel like I've arrived at the level of high end that I care to explore. Anything else is just cross grade or flavor. Still a bit curious about a TH-X00 or 900 for the fun big bass. Etc. I suppose there's always one more thing to check out.
  


jerick70 said:


> FYI, I'm using the WU4GBs.  And yes I feel really naughty!  But the sound is so worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes I got the full package WA5 with the speaker outputs and the parts upgrade. The cost hurt mightily but I justified it as I'd probably find something missing and regret it if I didn't just go all out up front and end up spending more down the line to get the upgrades. A year later IDK I barely touched the speaker outs. It's fun to have but so far mostly unused. I just ordered the WU4GB last night.
  


badas said:


> Wow!
> 
> Future Woo Audio purchasers need to know this. It seems to pop up often.
> If you get a Woo that works then great for you. If you don't you are on your own. That's how it works.


 
  
 That really does suck and people should absolutely know what they are getting themselves into. Maybe I'm lucky I can only say positive things about my Woo experience. I really wish they took better care of you guys. That's something really important, if I run into issues somewhere down the road after $1000s spent up front, I want to know that I'll be taken good care of and treated fairly. In this little community reputation is very important and so far everyone of the various vendors I've dealt with have been not only super cool, they bent over backwards and at times were responding at odd hours I wouldn't have expected. A poor support experience could be enough reason to avoid purchasing to begin with. All things being nearly equal. I certainly hope they can do something to improve their back end support for you guys encountering issues (especially since that may include me some day).


----------



## artemart

> That really does suck and people should absolutely know what they are getting themselves into. Maybe I'm lucky I can only say positive things about my Woo experience. I really wish they took better care of you guys. That's something really important, if I run into issues somewhere down the road after $1000s spent up front, I want to know that I'll be taken good care of and treated fairly. In this little community reputation is very important and so far everyone of the various vendors I've dealt with have been not only super cool, they bent over backwards and at times were responding at odd hours I wouldn't have expected. A poor support experience could be enough reason to avoid purchasing to begin with. All things being nearly equal. I certainly hope they can do something to improve their back end support for you guys encountering issues (especially since that may include me some day).


 
  
 I would like to 100% agree with you.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> I'm with you on this one bud. This is the kinda twadle you get if you say boo! to Woo.
> 
> Last time I was asked to take it out of the forums and contact them via PM or email direct. I did that and go no reply.
> 
> Woo Audio's customer service is terrible. Do they actually have a customer service team or full time employee? It seems Mike is it and he does a lot of other stuff as well.


 
  
  


a1uc said:


> I hear you one can only talk good about a company and as soon as one says something neg look out . Thats why Im dropping it here but I will be spending all next week on other forums and also posting my story along with all the emails etc on the web .
> 
> I also will be sending a few places some emails letting them know how Mike trash talked them , oh yeah Mike is very good at trash talking .
> 
> ...


 

 This is really to bad you both have had such bad experiences.  I've had an excellent experience with Woo on my end so far.  Mike and Jack were strait up gentlemen to me with my recent purchase and questions.  Everything has been as promised and described by Woo.  I'm shocked that there is such a wide difference in interaction with them.  Not to knock what you are saying, I'm just coming from the total opposite experience.  Wanted to make my perspective known. 
  
@a1uc I hope you get your issue resolved with them, if you can.  I wish you the best.


----------



## Porteroso

I think a lot of the "trouble" with woo's support is that yes, it's one guy, Mike, that does it all. And he has a real life, and as it seems, he sets boundaries. Something that I can appreciate. He also travels to shows and expos. 
  
 If you're used to a big company that dedicates a good chunk of money to customer support, well, a small business is just going to disappoint you on that front.
  
 There are just a few people here who have had legitimate complaints about Woo products. It is very few, when you consider how many they have sold. I once emailed them and got an incomplete response, so I can appreciate that all is not perfect with Woo's customer service. But there are a few people here who are more than willing to go take a proverbial poo over Woo because of their own frustrations. 
  
 If you look around, you will find that any tube product has those same frustrations. Woo simply does a good job of making quality amps, and once in a while, they probably mess up. But it seems that it is not very often. Any company will have quality issues.
  
 Also, I just would not buy non Woo products from Woo. I hate to say it, because I am sure that is a cash cow for them, but they are just buying a thing, and reselling it to you. If you have problems with that thing, I'm sure there is some sort of process that they will go through with you, but it will not be lenient towards you.
  
 Again, just basic business. If you don't understand business, and just want to go with the most popular big company, go for it. I have been almost entirely satisfied with Woo, and most people clearly are also satisfied. There are maybe 2 or 3 vocal members who wish for more, and who is to say they aren't right. But just trashing Woo repeatedly seems to be unfair.


----------



## abvolt

porteroso said:


> I think a lot of the "trouble" with woo's support is that yes, it's one guy, Mike, that does it all. And he has a real life, and as it seems, he sets boundaries. Something that I can appreciate. He also travels to shows and expos.
> 
> If you're used to a big company that dedicates a good chunk of money to customer support, well, a small business is just going to disappoint you on that front.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent comment I agree I've been very happy with my Woo..enjoy the music guys.


----------



## Badas

If you don't have issues or have minor issues then you will be looked after. If you have big issues expect nothing.

 Just know this before going down the Woo road.


----------



## leftside

porteroso said:


> On to the copper caps, I'm starting to listen more, and for me, coming from the U52, there really isn't a lot of difference. I think it mainly comes down to presentation. I would describe the U52 as euphonic, lush, great detail. The copper cap, I don't think it is euphonic. I think that any "musicality" is coming from the power/driver tubes now. What it is, is clean, fast, dynamic, and detailed. And I think that for the price, it is all that anyone should buy. Obviously we are still in the baby stages of trying it out. We all need to do a lot more listening, and put a lot more hours into our amps with these copper tubes, before we say that they are safe to use.


 
 I too tried the copper cap this evening. I found the same differences as you. My reference track was Blue Monday by New Order which has a lot of bass and highs that can sound quite harsh on some systems. The tube rectifier that I was using was the Cossor fat base. The copper is very quiet and I'll certainly be getting it out again if I ever listen to music that has a lot of quiet passages.
  
 I spray painted the copper cap:
  

  
  
  
 But I don't think it looks as nice as an all tube setup:


----------



## jhljhl

There's an Eddie Current Studio for sale in the classifieds would like to know how it compares to the WA5?


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> If you don't have issues or have minor issues then you will be looked after. If you have big issues expect nothing.
> 
> Just know this before going down the Woo road.


 
 I would not consider my issue to be minor.  I purchased an 8 month old WA-5 so I was the 2nd owner.  When I received the amp the SRP 300B were junk.  Because the SRP carry a 12 month warranty I contacted Mike at Woo.  It took a few weeks but I received two brand new SRP 300B.  I don't know who covered the cost.  Mike said Sophia was difficult to work with but I worked with Mike and even though I had never spent a dime with Woo Mike took care of me.  This all took place in Feb of this year and I have been enjoying the WA-5 for the last 8 months.


----------



## zeissiez

jhljhl said:


> There's an Eddie Current Studio for sale in the classifieds would like to know how it compares to the WA5?




EC Studio: Neutral, accurate, transparent 
WA5: lush, thick, euphonic 

They sound very very different. So it's easy to choose


----------



## jhljhl

zeissiez said:


> EC Studio: Neutral, accurate, transparent
> WA5: lush, thick, euphonic
> 
> They sound very very different. So it's easy to choose


 

 I know the wa5 is often criticized as muddy though I don't think so. But how resolving can the Studio be? Read an informative review posted on another site comparing the studio with the zana deus super and jutenheim. Reviewer referred to the studio as a kind of uber-jutenheim.


----------



## jelt2359

Check this out. The 445 was the previous iteration of the studio. A bit different of course but similar tuning and same maker. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/740466/epic-woo-wa5-eddie-current-4-45-shootout

I can definitely relate to the lush midrange and what he refers to as the 'wall of sound' of the WA5. It's a feature not a problem. Studio probably sounds significantly more holographic, but much less lush and rich.


----------



## phonyx

phase0 said:


> Quite true. I heard the Carbon at RMAF and thought it was great. It's always hard to tell at show events vs at home how well it performs. I was really tempted to get one based off the demo and questioned if it wasn't good enough that I would even need the WA5, but alas since reeling from the cost of buy everything I just wasn't in the mood or place to buy anything else. Cavalli's high end is really good. I suppose different strokes for different folks or different flavor of ice cream if you're bored or tired of tubes.
> 
> I also am at the point where I can tell something is a little different between A/B but I can't well articulate what I hear, and overall I think the change is fairly minor to where the costs IDK if it's really justified. Since I got it I want to keep it though. I tend to think the value really isn't there but then again I was curious about what was the best and I can convince myself that I can afford it in the headphone world (not in the 2-channel stereo world or home theater world). As I'm gaining more experience I'm also thinking I may be less picky than some folks. What I got is astoundingly good and I'm pretty happy. Even though there's still a couple notches up on the price scale out there for DACs and Amps (like MSB or the WA234), I feel like I'm at such diminishing returns from LCX-XC to Utopia (and that's not to say they aren't fantastic, they absolutely are amazing)... When I switch from Utopia back to LCD-XC I think I can kind of get where people call the LCD veiled. I know the tuning is a bit diff, etc, it's not as good, but it's also not IMO a big $2k step down. So I think at least for now I feel like I've arrived at the level of high end that I care to explore. Anything else is just cross grade or flavor. Still a bit curious about a TH-X00 or 900 for the fun big bass. Etc. I suppose there's always one more thing to check out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed the cost of 2-channel audio is mental. I've put a moratorium on system upgrades at the moment, I need to recover after the acquisition of the WA5. The MSB Analogue would be super nice to improve my front end but yeah, not happening right now! DAC tech is advancing so rapidly it would be hard to commit unless scoring a great used deal anyway. 
  
 That said "right, no more upgrades!" I borrowed a pair of HE-1000's from a mate and wow, paired with the WA5 they're sounding fantastic. I don't want to give them back! I usually use my trusty D7000's (OEM'd by Fostex, very similar to the TH900's). They more pronounced bass and are harder/faster sounding but less pleasant and easygoing. The TH900's are very similar - a little midrange softness, strong bass, a little treble detail and and overall fun presentation. If you get a chance have a listen with them, they're good phones especially for closed backs, nice light weight too. The XC's are also good for a closed back sound wise but I can't deal with the weight!
  
 I have not touched my speaker outs on the WA5 either. I just DAC > Audioengine 5+ and that's it. I would have bought the LE had it been available at the time but it wasn't so...
  
 I emailed Woo about my amp and didn't hear anything back. I know small boutique companies can have response delays but to just never get a reply isn't a good feeling.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I want to say that a1uc is not telling everyone the entire story, only his side. He received a full refund on the Abyss he bought from us. We even took a loss on the shipping cost because we gave him FREE shipping in addition to a discount. We don't know what else we can do to make him happy.
  
 I've spent many many hours on the phone with him giving my professional and unbiased opinion on Woo Audio and non Woo Audio products. He purchased a Sim Audio MOON NEO 430HAD, Nordost cables (bought on Audiogon), WA5-LE (bought used on Audiogon), Abyss headphones and other products based on my recommendations. For him to say I trash talk other companies is completely untrue. The fact that a1uc is now openly trash talking about me and Jack and threatens to trash talk in other forums shows his true character. He has ZERO respect for the above and beyond service we've provided. 
  
 To address email response time. Yes, I handle most of the emails sent to info@wooaudio.com. On some occasions, emails are mistakenly filtered by Spam filters. We are now looking in Spam Inbox as well to ensure we didn't miss a customer email. 
  
 We are a small company and there is value in dealing with only me and Jack because you don't have to deal with a new person each and every time. I've dealt with big companies with huge support staffs and it was frustrating to explain the concern to a new person in each reply. We are not perfect, but we try our best to address each and every concern.
  
 You can reach us by email, phone, social media and here on Head-Fi via PM. 
  
 ~ Mike Liang
 1-872-222-9667
  info@wooaudio.com
  
*Like* us on Facebook *Follow* us on Twitter
*Join* us on Instagram


*Share* with us your #WooAudioStories


----------



## Audioi

I have had many dealings with Woo Audio, all were very positive and very straightforward, I think these are great people to deal with.


----------



## Audiogalore

hifiguy528 said:


> I want to say that a1uc is not telling everyone the entire story, only his side. He received a full refund on the Abyss he bought from us. We even took a loss on the shipping cost because we gave him FREE shipping in addition to a discount. We don't know what else we can do to make him happy.
> 
> I've spent many many hours on the phone with him giving my professional and unbiased opinion on Woo Audio and non Woo Audio products. He purchased a Sim Audio MOON NEO 430HAD, Nordost cables (bought on Audiogon), WA5-LE (bought used on Audiogon), Abyss headphones and other products based on my recommendations. For him to say I trash talk other companies is completely untrue. The fact that a1uc is now openly trash talking about me and Jack and threatens to trash talk in other forums shows his true character. He has ZERO respect for the above and beyond service we've provided.
> 
> ...


 
 I been around long enough time in this hobby and can only say after owning many different Woo products they have served me well. I presently have a Woo WA5 and this has to be if not the best sounding amp with absolutely no issues what so ever. As a matter of fact if this same Amp was manufactured by some of these bigger companies it would easily be 4 times the price for what you are getting. I have no ties to Woo audio except being an end user!
  
 Hat off to Mike Liang and Jack Woo for the job they have done..........................keep making great products!!!!!


----------



## phase0

hifiguy528 said:


> I want to say that a1uc is not telling everyone the entire story, only his side. He received a full refund on the Abyss he bought from us. We even took a loss on the shipping cost because we gave him FREE shipping in addition to a discount. We don't know what else we can do to make him happy.
> We are a small company and there is value in dealing with only me and Jack because you don't have to deal with a new person each and every time. I've dealt with big companies with huge support staffs and it was frustrating to explain the concern to a new person in each reply. We are not perfect, but we try our best to address each and every concern.


 
  
 Yea small company with a couple contacts. You guys are human too. I've always received responses to emails and typically within 12-24hrs where IMO 48 hr response would be fine for most of it. I hope you guys take some time off work to relax on occasion too.
  
 I don't want to get in the middle of the Abyss controversy, but one thing about the story that doesn't make any sense at all to me... If I'm Woo Audio, and I'm spending years building product lines, sales, reputation etc. If I had a used broken headphone in stock, would it make any sense at all to try and dump this on an unsuspecting customer? Especially when 1/2 the customers are probably on head-fi and word would spread like wild fire? What kind of benefit would it be to do that? Risking the whole company and future for a quick rip someone off for a quick buck? Versus contacting JPS labs and getting it fixed? I have a hard time believing they would intentionally try to screw someone like that. it just seems way to risky and if that was the way they did business we would know about it already I would think. Yea if things go south and as a customer can't get satisfaction, publishing the email thread is one way to try the case in the court of public opinion.
  
 Anyways before I order my amp I tried to do some searching to see if there's a lot of upset/angry Woo customers and I didn't find much. There's never gonna be 100% satisfaction level anywhere. I've met these guys at CanJam, chatted with other ppl about them, had email and phone conversations with them. They may not be perfect but then none of us are. I tend to give Woo the benefit of the doubt just based on my own experience and conversations. I really don't think Woo set up shop to screw people. I think they're music enthusiasts too and at the end of the day we're all trying to enjoy the best representation of the music we all love and try to share some of that with the world.


----------



## a1uc

hifiguy528 said:


> I want to say that a1uc is not telling everyone the entire story, only his side. He received a full refund on the Abyss he bought from us. We even took a loss on the shipping cost because we gave him FREE shipping in addition to a discount. We don't know what else we can do to make him happy.
> 
> I've spent many many hours on the phone with him giving my professional and unbiased opinion on Woo Audio and non Woo Audio products. He purchased a Sim Audio MOON NEO 430HAD, Nordost cables (bought on Audiogon), WA5-LE (bought used on Audiogon), Abyss headphones and other products based on my recommendations. For him to say I trash talk other companies is completely untrue. The fact that a1uc is now openly trash talking about me and Jack and threatens to trash talk in other forums shows his true character. He has ZERO respect for the above and beyond service we've provided.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes Mike you are correct you did spend many hours helping me there is no doubt , and you and Jack are awesome people to deal with I wont argue that point either .
 But I have no reason to lie , you did trash talk other company's and certain people and the only reason I even brought that up was because you and Jack are trying to make me look like
 an outright liar .
  
 I bought the headphones for 3800 plus from you guys and when first unpacked them 1 side was dead , I even took the cable from the working side and moved it over to the dead side nothing .
 After 10 min the dead side started to work .
 I contacted you right away about this issue and your reply was oh man thats impossible we test them this never ever happened before . Okay lets be honest I felt bad like you thought I was making this up , then you said lets see if it happens again so thats what I did . Now 1 month later I go to use the headphones same thing . All I wanted was a working pair of headphones .
  
 Now you say there is nothing wrong with them and I believe that but one day the same side will go out and youll see I wasnt making it up . I just hope your honest enough to come back on here and let everyone know I was telling to truth . I know you offered to send them in under warranty but this just proves the issue might of not show right away and they would of just been sent back and forth .
  
 Im going to let this go now its just to bad it had to come to this I really do enjoy woo products . Again please do the right thing when the hp act up all I ask    Take care
  
 Sorry Guys lets all just move on


----------



## jerick70

phase0 said:


> Yea small company with a couple contacts. You guys are human too. I've always received responses to emails and typically within 12-24hrs where IMO 48 hr response would be fine for most of it. I hope you guys take some time off work to relax on occasion too.
> 
> I don't want to get in the middle of the Abyss controversy, but one thing about the story that doesn't make any sense at all to me... If I'm Woo Audio, and I'm spending years building product lines, sales, reputation etc. If I had a used broken headphone in stock, would it make any sense at all to try and dump this on an unsuspecting customer? Especially when 1/2 the customers are probably on head-fi and word would spread like wild fire? What kind of benefit would it be to do that? Risking the whole company and future for a quick rip someone off for a quick buck? Versus contacting JPS labs and getting it fixed? I have a hard time believing they would intentionally try to screw someone like that. it just seems way to risky and if that was the way they did business we would know about it already I would think. Yea if things go south and as a customer can't get satisfaction, publishing the email thread is one way to try the case in the court of public opinion.
> 
> Anyways before I order my amp I tried to do some searching to see if there's a lot of upset/angry Woo customers and I didn't find much. There's never gonna be 100% satisfaction level anywhere. I've met these guys at CanJam, chatted with other ppl about them, had email and phone conversations with them. They may not be perfect but then none of us are. I tend to give Woo the benefit of the doubt just based on my own experience and conversations. I really don't think Woo set up shop to screw people. I think they're music enthusiasts too and at the end of the day we're all trying to enjoy the best representation of the music we all love and try to share some of that with the world.




I have to agree. Woo is on the up and up. 

Here are my 2 cents.... They are an invaluable asset to us as headphone enthusiasts and the HiFi headphone industry as a whole. Great headphone/speaker kit and outstanding people. Thanks for what you do for us Mike and Jack.


----------



## jelt2359

a1uc said:


> Yes Mike you are correct you did spend many hours helping me there is no doubt , and you and Jack are awesome people to deal with I wont argue that point either .
> But I have no reason to lie , you did trash talk other company's and certain people and the only reason I even brought that up was because you and Jack are trying to make me look like
> an outright liar .
> 
> ...




I think this explains things very clearly. Thank you. Reminds me of software development, where a bug can be very elusive to replicate, much less solve. Is the customer wrong if I can't replicate it? I've always just accepted that it's an actual bug but doesn't mean that I can solve his issue. How nice it'd be if I could just replace his app with a new build and get rid the issue 

Sorry for the diversion!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

audioi said:


> I have had many dealings with Woo Audio, all were very positive and very straightforward, I think these are great people to deal with.


 
  
 Quote:


audiogalore said:


> I been around long enough time in this hobby and can only say after owning many different Woo products they have served me well. I presently have a Woo WA5 and this has to be if not the best sounding amp with absolutely no issues what so ever. As a matter of fact if this same Amp was manufactured by some of these bigger companies it would easily be 4 times the price for what you are getting. I have no ties to Woo audio except being an end user!
> 
> Hat off to Mike Liang and Jack Woo for the job they have done..........................keep making great products!!!!!


 
  
 Quote:


jerick70 said:


> I have to agree. Woo is on the up and up.
> 
> Here are my 2 cents.... They are an invaluable asset to us as headphone enthusiasts and the HiFi headphone industry as a whole. Great headphone/speaker kit and outstanding people. Thanks for what you do for us Mike and Jack.


 
  






 Thank you! Your kind comments and support means a LOT to us. As much as we are a business, we try to have fun and build things we would enjoy using.
  
 The audio industry is both big and small. Small in the way that the people behind the companies and our customers are often friends outside the business. We didn't get to where we are today by mistreating our customers and trash talking our friends in the industry.
  
 Every decisions we make in product offerings and in service, we put on our customer hat and ask ourselves is this the best for the customer. If you look at our products portfolio, many of the models have been in production for a long time. We don't make and sell disposable products. Often times we would delay a new product release until it is the best we can do. Case-in-point is our newest product WA8 Eclipse. We went through 9 working prototypes and delayed its release for over a year. Jude (founder of Head-Fi) teased us by saying WA8 is taking so long we should call it "WA-Late".
  

  
 When troubleshooting a problem via email or phone, we ask a lot of questions. Not because we don't believe the customer. It is that we only know what the customer tells us. The easiest thing for us to say is "send it back for testing". Is this really the best approach? No, because often times the problem is a simple fix or an oversight in connections. Exhausting every troubleshooting recommendation first before asking the customer to ship the product back is the most efficient and cost effective way to handle a product issue. The most frustrating thing is when a service item is returned to customer with "no problem found". I've had this happened to me personally on many occasions. The customer is back to square one and shipping expense.
  
 You can reach us in many ways email, phone, social media and here on Head-Fi via PM. We thank our customers for being patient while we help sort out their concerns.
  
 ~ Mike Liang
 1-872-222-9667
  info@wooaudio.com
  
*Like* us on Facebook *Follow* us on Twitter
*Join* us on Instagram

*Share* with us your #WooAudioStories


----------



## phonyx

Having a transcendental experience over here. 
  
 Foobar KS > uptone audio Regen > X-Sabre > WA5 > HE1K
  
 Just so so good. I cannot handle HD800's as I'm extremely treble sensitive, but these HE's are brilliant. I should never have borrowed these headphones...


----------



## reeltime

I've had many dealings with Jack and Mike over the years.  I lost a transformer on my WA5LE last year.  The cost of fixing wasn't worth it.  I purchased the unit used.  Woo gave me a very fair price on a trade-in to the V2 WA5LE and had me up and running in a few weeks.  
  
 Any time I've had a question (dumb and not-so-dumb) they've responded with patience and fairness.  Not a lot of companies out there that will work with their customers directly.


----------



## phonyx

reeltime said:


> I've had many dealings with Jack and Mike over the years.  I lost a transformer on my WA5LE last year.  The cost of fixing wasn't worth it.  I purchased the unit used.  Woo gave me a very fair price on a trade-in to the V2 WA5LE and had me up and running in a few weeks.
> 
> Any time I've had a question (dumb and not-so-dumb) they've responded with patience and fairness.  Not a lot of companies out there that will work with their customers directly.


 
  
 How'd you blow a transformer? Which one went and how much was the repair quote?


----------



## reeltime

phonyx said:


> How'd you blow a transformer? Which one went and how much was the repair quote?


 

 Honestly don't remember.  I think it was the left.  But I was sitting on a hunk of unusable metal without their help.


----------



## Toolman

How does the Axios matched with the WA8 / HD800S combo?


----------



## jerick70

phonyx said:


> Having a transcendental experience over here.
> 
> Foobar KS > uptone audio Regen > X-Sabre > WA5 > HE1K
> 
> Just so so good. I cannot handle HD800's as I'm extremely treble sensitive, but these HE's are brilliant. I should never have borrowed these headphones...




Have you tried the HE-6 with the WA5?


----------



## phonyx

jerick70 said:


> Have you tried the HE-6 with the WA5?




I haven't actually. Everything I read suggested the HE1K was ahead of the HE6 and no one local to me has the HE6 on the shelf to demo so I've never heard them. 

One thing to note, is that the HE1K sound better using the 6.3mm jack on low sensitivity mode rather than balanced. The balanced jack on the WA5 makes them harder and more shouty, whereas the balanced jack on my Cavalli sounds superior vs it's TRS. The balanced WA5 jack gets the full 8w output of the tubes - I'd have thought it would sound the same or better and just have less volume control but it wasn't the case at all.


----------



## Porteroso

Another update on my copper cap. I think it's a keeper. I am going to try the version Glenn said to try with the WA6, the WU4GB was it? But I will have a higher drop and a lower drop to compare, so maybe I can shed some light on what the voltage drop will do to the sound. (if anything)
  
 As it happens, I'm not really missing the lushness of the U52 anymore. Maybe in some sense, lushness can be achieved by less detail, so there are fewer things to listen to, fewer sticky outy things, and in some way you listen to the core of the sound more, and less to the details. At least right now I'm thinking that to get greater detail, you must sacrifice lushness. I'm finding myself more involved with the music, either way. 
  
 Anyways, I really love this copper cap. It's not the one Glenn said to get, but so far it has not harmed my amp, and I really doubt that it is doing anything to shorten the life of my power/driver tubes. As far as volume goes, it seems to be pretty efficient. The knob is at 9 or 10 o'clock, whereas with the U52, 1 or 2 more hour turns. Not a huge difference, but it is some. 
  
 I don't think my WA6 can get any better than this (other than one day sending it in to get the pseudo dual power supply). I would love to see it crush a lot of higher end amps at a meet. For the cost of a used WA6 (got mine for 400), a few pairs of TS/NU 6F8G or 6C8G, and the 30 dollar copper cap, I think you get an incredible sound. Next is upgrading the dac. Hope to get a modi multibit soon. Right now on a sabre dac, which is nice, but I definitely want to get rid of that electronic sound in the treble.
  
 edit: Brahms 3 has never sounded so good.


----------



## Badas

^

Yes. It is the WU4GB. I contacted Weber and they recomended WU4GB as well as Glenn. They took a look at the WA22 specifications and suggested it.

I can also confirm no problems with long sessions with the WU4GB. I did a 13 hour session yesterday. :eek:
No issues at all. 13 hours is 5 hours over Woo's recomended time. Amp was cooler than a tube rectifier. Outside metal was just room temperature.

Detail is something I'm enjoying as well. I'm hearing breathing and breaths that wasn't there with a tube rectifier. I'm very sensitive to treble and that extra treble detail is rendered very accurately and sweetly. I had concerns it was going to be harsh. It's not. Actually I think it is less harsh. Comparing I would say the tube rectifier adds a certain amount of treble distortion where SS doesn't.

Like you said I think my Woo is sounding the best it can be. I don't think it could be pushed further. Lately I've been thinking this it. Endgame for me. I don't have desires for more.


----------



## Contrails

Selling my WA22 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/821181/ic-wa22-with-preamp-outputs-black-nz-located


----------



## jhljhl

porteroso said:


> Another update on my copper cap. I think it's a keeper. I am going to try the version Glenn said to try with the WA6, the WU4GB was it? But I will have a higher drop and a lower drop to compare, so maybe I can shed some light on what the voltage drop will do to the sound. (if anything)
> 
> As it happens, I'm not really missing the lushness of the U52 anymore. Maybe in some sense, lushness can be achieved by less detail, so there are fewer things to listen to, fewer sticky outy things, and in some way you listen to the core of the sound more, and less to the details. At least right now I'm thinking that to get greater detail, you must sacrifice lushness. I'm finding myself more involved with the music, either way.
> 
> ...


 
  


badas said:


> ^
> 
> Yes. It is the WU4GB. I contacted Weber and they recomended WU4GB as well as Glenn. They took a look at the WA22 specifications and suggested it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have placed my order - will let you know my impressions.


----------



## monkkx

Hi all, I'm pretty sure it has been stated already, but the thread is a bit hard to follow, and the indications/warning on weber website add some more confusion ... anyway: for a WA5, the coper cap recommended is WU4GB, right? (and not the WS1 as suggested on weber WU4GB product page).
 Just want to triple check before placing order


----------



## Porteroso

monkkx said:


> Hi all, I'm pretty sure it has been stated already, but the thread is a bit hard to follow, and the indications/warning on weber website add some more confusion ... anyway: for a WA5, the coper cap recommended is WU4GB, right? (and not the WS1 as suggested on weber WU4GB product page).
> Just want to triple check before placing order


 
 I'm not an authority, but jerick said he is running WU4GB on his WA5, ymc226 said he was getting that too. Glenn seemed to say that the WU4GB would be better than the WZ34 for the WA5. All that to say, everyone is pretty much on the WU4GB train right now. Once I get mine, I'll be able to compare it to the WZ34, soundwise.
  
 I don't think anyone is using the WS-1.


----------



## artemart

Any one else got update on "WU4GB" rectifier with WA5?


----------



## jerick70

artemart said:


> Any one else got update on "WU4GB" rectifier with WA5?




I have been using the WU4GB copper caps with my WA5 for a few weeks. I'm very happy with them. I have had no adverse effects since I've been using them. Unless you call excellent sound an adverse effect.  Highly recommended. You can read my impressions further back in the thread.


----------



## jerick70

Well after my listening session last night I noticed that one of my WU4GB copper caps is starting to bulge on the top.  It had a dimple in the middle top of the cap when I first received them just like the other cap in the pictures.  Hmmm.  That is a little concerning.  Maybe I have a bad cap?  What does everyone think about this new development?  I'll talk with Weber and see what they say.  Looking back at some photos from @Badas it looks like his cap is bulging too.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 It's just the heat changing them a bit. I wouldn't be concerned. These suckers get hot. Hotter than most tubes I've used. That's why I suggested using tube saves underneath. To keep some heat from going down to the amp.
  
 There is nothing much to go wrong inside the Weber. I noticed some users wait for them to get hot. Grip the copper cap and pull. It removes the cover and they use it like that.
  
 Here is a pic I posted a while back of the internals.


----------



## leftside

Maybe we could get someone to put an LED light on the internals and then put a glass cover over the top?


----------



## Contrails

> Maybe we could get someone to put an LED light on the internals and then put a glass cover over the top?


 
  
 Also, have the words 'NOS Western Electric' as a logo on the base just to be sure.


----------



## Porteroso

Got my WU4GB today, and compared to the WZ34, I can't tell the difference off the bat. I know the sound didn't get any more detailed or harsh. I think any difference I might be hearing would be in my mind. Probably sounds exactly the same.
  
 Used with the WA6, it is still cool to the touch, just like the WZ34 was. Sounds amazing.


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> Got my WU4GB today, and compared to the WZ34, I can't tell the difference off the bat. I know the sound didn't get any more detailed or harsh. I think any difference I might be hearing would be in my mind. Probably sounds exactly the same.
> 
> Used with the WA6, it is still cool to the touch, just like the WZ34 was. Sounds amazing.


 

 Try speed. The SS rectifiers with no sag were lightning fast (best I heard but would overheat). As the WZ34 has less sag it might have more pace and speed.
  
 Speed test track: Robert Palmer - Some like it hot. Opening drums.
  
 WU4GB was better than tubes but not as good as a no-sag SS rectifier.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> Got my WU4GB today, and compared to the WZ34, I can't tell the difference off the bat. I know the sound didn't get any more detailed or harsh. I think any difference I might be hearing would be in my mind. Probably sounds exactly the same.
> 
> Used with the WA6, it is still cool to the touch, just like the WZ34 was. Sounds amazing.


 
 Looking forward to more time spent with both to see if one makes the WA6 run hotter than the other.


----------



## joseph69

badas said:


> Try speed. The SS rectifiers with no sag were lightning fast (best I heard but would overheat). As the WZ34 has less sag it might have more pace and speed.
> Speed test track: Robert Palmer - Some like it hot. Opening drums.
> WU4GB was better than tubes but not as good as a no-sag SS rectifier.


 
 So which do you think would be best for the WA6?


----------



## Porteroso

joseph69 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > Got my WU4GB today, and compared to the WZ34, I can't tell the difference off the bat. I know the sound didn't get any more detailed or harsh. I think any difference I might be hearing would be in my mind. Probably sounds exactly the same.
> ...


 
 I've had the WA6 running for 5 hours now, with the WU4GB in it. The copper cap is still cool to the touch, and every part (except maybe the bottom, didn't try it) of the WA6 is cool to the touch. Only things hot are the driver/power tubes. I'll try to put the same 5 hours on the WZ34 this weekend and see about it, but since I can't tell a difference, and Glenn says the WU4GB is better for the amp than the WZ34
  


badas said:


> Try speed. The SS rectifiers with no sag were lightning fast (best I heard but would overheat). As the WZ34 has less sag it might have more pace and speed.
> 
> Speed test track: Robert Palmer - Some like it hot. Opening drums.
> 
> WU4GB was better than tubes but not as good as a no-sag SS rectifier.


 
 I tried it with the WU4GB, and I don't think I'm missing any speed at all. I don't have any good solid state to compare it to, so I wouldn't know if my amp is slow on attacks. It sounds very natural with the track you said to use, though that track was either recorded with a lot of sound dampening, or engineered to give it a really instant cutoff. The cutoff of the drums is very odd, not natural at all. But I supposed that does help to make it a good test track. I'll try with the WZ34 this weekend, but I doubt there will be much difference. If there is, I'll let you know.


----------



## jerick70

badas said:


> ^
> 
> It's just the heat changing them a bit. I wouldn't be concerned. These suckers get hot. Hotter than most tubes I've used. That's why I suggested using tube saves underneath. To keep some heat from going down to the amp.
> 
> ...




I saw your pic further back in the thread after I posted. Yeah it's not like a standard capacitor so bulging isn't a concern. Bulging with a standard cap is a sign of failure that's why I was concerned. I did talk to CJ at Weber and he didn't seem very concerned. He is still going to get back with me. I'm not at all worried now. Thank Badas.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> I've had the WA6 running for 5 hours now, with the WU4GB in it. The copper cap is still cool to the touch, and every part (except maybe the bottom, didn't try it) of the WA6 is cool to the touch. Only things hot are the driver/power tubes. I'll try to put the same 5 hours on the WZ34 this weekend and see about it, but since I can't tell a difference, and Glenn says the WU4GB is better for the amp than the WZ34


 
 Thanks.
 I thought Glenn had mentioned that the WU4GB was better for the WA5 not the WA6, but I might have misunderstood.


----------



## Porteroso

joseph69 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > I've had the WA6 running for 5 hours now, with the WU4GB in it. The copper cap is still cool to the touch, and every part (except maybe the bottom, didn't try it) of the WA6 is cool to the touch. Only things hot are the driver/power tubes. I'll try to put the same 5 hours on the WZ34 this weekend and see about it, but since I can't tell a difference, and Glenn says the WU4GB is better for the amp than the WZ34
> ...


 
 I don't think he outright said that, but I think he said the WZ34 might have too little sag. Anyhow, I think that was the intention, for him to say that the WU4GB was the best option for the WA6 as well as the WA5.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> I don't think he outright said that, but I think he said the WZ34 might have too little sag. Anyhow, I think that was the intention, for him to say that the WU4GB was the best option for the WA6 as well as the WA5.


 
  I wasn't quite clear about which one to go with according to the post…the confusion was my misunderstanding, not Glenns post.


----------



## 2359glenn

The Copper cap is just 2 diodes and a resistor to make the voltage drop. With just a resistor the voltage drop will be
 greater with a amp that draws more current. So a WA6 is going to draw the least current so it will have the lowest
 voltage drop of all amps using the Copper cap.
 The WU4GB is 50 volts drop at 275ma if your amp does not draw that much current that voltage drop will be much less.
 In a WA-6 actually it might be safest to use a WY3GT drop of 50 volts drop at 125ma.
  
 The voltage drop is needed so you don't go over voltage on the filter capacitors in your amp and blow them up.
  
 Now that I thoroughly confused every body I got to get to work.


----------



## joseph69

2359glenn said:


> The Copper cap is just 2 diodes and a resistor to make the voltage drop. With just a resistor the voltage drop will be
> greater with a amp that draws more current. So a WA6 is going to draw the least current so it will have the lowest
> voltage drop of all amps using the Copper cap.
> The WU4GB is 50 volts drop at 275ma if your amp does not draw that much current that voltage drop will be much less.
> ...


 
 Thank you  again. I thought you had mentioned a different cap other than the WU4GB for the WA6.


----------



## Badas

My Woo WA22 now has some competition. The Violectric V281. 
Ever since I heard this amp I've always wanted one.


----------



## phase0

badas said:


> My Woo WA22 now has some competition. The Violectric V281.
> Ever since I heard this amp I've always wanted one.


 
  
 Ha congrats! Do you like one over the other? I like not waiting for tubes to warm up sometimes. I got some copper caps too. I haven't tried to compare to the Brimar or Mullards I have. They do sound good, and the amp doesn't seem to be any different temperature-wise from running the Brimar. So I'm assuming now I have something equiv or better than Tak 274Bs. I got the copper caps at the same time as I got some new used headphones so I was paying more attention to that at the time.


----------



## Badas

phase0 said:


> Ha congrats! Do you like one over the other? I like not waiting for tubes to warm up sometimes. I got some copper caps too. I haven't tried to compare to the Brimar or Mullards I have. They do sound good, and the amp doesn't seem to be any different temperature-wise from running the Brimar. So I'm assuming now I have something equiv or better than Tak 274Bs. I got the copper caps at the same time as I got some new used headphones so I was paying more attention to that at the time.




V281 is stunning. Beats WA22 easily. There is a reason many members have moved to it.

It is the only SS amp I have heard that actually competes with tubes on warmth and holographics. Even tho my WA22 is pimped out I think the V281 actually beats it in holographics. It must be something to do wth using 4 individual amps in balanced mode. Magic.


----------



## Rossliew

badas said:


> V281 is stunning. Beats WA22 easily. There is a reason many members have moved to it.
> 
> It is the only SS amp I have heard that actually competes with tubes on warmth and holographics. Even tho my WA22 is pimped out I think the V281 actually beats it in holographics. It must be something to do wth using 4 individual amps in balanced mode. Magic.




Does it beat your wa22 with SS rectifier?


----------



## Badas

rossliew said:


> Does it beat your wa22 with SS rectifier?




Yes.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Looking for a balanced DAC for my WA22 with Sennheiser Hd800s. I usually listen to classical music.
  
 Requirements: 1. Around $1000 dollar. 2. MUST be able to work fine with a CD transport/player! 
  
 For example: I know Schiit Gumby is a good choice, but it is not compatible with most CD transports/players (it would make extensively clicking sounds and even erase the first couple of seconds of each song in a CD).
  
 Thank you guys a lot!!!


----------



## jerick70

shapeshifter44 said:


> Looking for a DAC for my WA22 with Sennheiser Hd800s. I usually listen to classical music.
> 
> Requirements: 1. Around $1000 dollar. 2. MUST be able to work fine with a CD transport/player!
> 
> ...




Here are a few DACs to look at in that price range. I'm not sure if they will work correctly with your CD transport. I've included quite a few different DACs depending on the sound signature that you like.

Matrix X-Sabre

Anything from MHDT Lab (I have an Atlantis in my main system right now and I love it)

Audio-GD DAC19 or NOS19 (for SE) NFB28 (for balanced)

Eastern Electric DAC Plus (there is one in the classifieds right now.)

Used LH Labs Geek Pulse Infinity

Used Burson Conductor (old model)

Used Ayre QB9 (there's one in the classifieds)


----------



## leftside

Looking forward to seeing 20 years worth of tubes coming onto the market that a few months ago blew everything else away 
  
 I've noticed a lot of people on here always rave about how much better the shiny new toy is over the old toy. Maybe it's similar to a new girlfriend/boyfriend where they seem so much better than the old girlfriend/boyfriend, but a year later things aren't quite so rosy...
  
 With headphone amps I tend to try and keep both around for a while, and it looks like Badas is going to do the same (be interested in your thoughts after a few months, but have to admit I'm already intrigued). I had a few headphone amps, but now I'm down to just two (both tubes). Adding a SS headphone amp could make for a nice addition, but I can't see myself not ever having a tube headphone amp.


----------



## eschell27

I would agree that the dac-19 / NOS-19 is an excellent choice... another one to add to the list might be Metrum Musette. I've been pretty interested in hearing their newer dacs with the new Transient chips they are using.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Thanks man. Just not sure if any in the list would have no issue with a CD transport since I listen to tons of cds. By the way, I only consider a balanced DAC now. 
 Thank you again.


----------



## shapeshifter44

By the way, how is Woo WDS-1? 
 Thanks


----------



## u2u2

shapeshifter44 said:


> By the way, how is Woo WDS-1?
> Thanks


 

 Bought one to use with a WA6 almost a year ago. Added a WA22 shortly after to have a fully balanced setup. Been using HD800 phones and just added Elears. Totally satisfied with the WDS-1. At times it is used to feed both amps simultaneously when there are two listeners. No noticeable degradation in performance. Using two inputs is also of value to switch sources quickly when net surfing etc. The design may be getting dated but is is solid. Not much attention goes to the WDS-1 or the WTP-1. It seems to be the unloved orphan from the Woo family.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Thank you a lot!
 I would assume WDS is more friendly with a cd player. Have you ever compared WDS to any Schiit?


----------



## daverich4

shapeshifter44 said:


> Looking for a balanced DAC for my WA22 with Sennheiser Hd800s. I usually listen to classical music.
> 
> 
> 
> For example: I know Schiit Gumby is a good choice, but it is not compatible with most CD transports/players (it would make extensively clicking sounds and even erase the first couple of seconds of each song in a CD).




Not sure what you mean by "extensively clicking" when playing CD's. There is a relay in the Gumby that you can hear click when the music changes resolution. If I play a song that is 16/44 and the next song is 24/96, there will be a click from the Gumby between them as it adjusts to the new rate. As CD's are always the same resolution, you shouldn't have any clicking at all.


----------



## joseph69

daverich4 said:


> Not sure what you mean by "extensively clicking" when playing CD's. There is a relay in the Gumby that you can hear click when the music changes resolution. If I play a song that is 16/44 and the next song is 24/96, there will be a click from the Gumby between them as it adjusts to the new rate. As CD's are always the same resolution, you shouldn't have any clicking at all.


 
 I understand what @shapeshifter44 is referring to.
 It is the muting relay on the Schiit DACs (except the Modi) that doesn't play well with some Cd players like my Sony CDP C-601/701ES models. When in pause/skip/fast forward mode the muting relay continuously opens/closes besides when switching between bit/kHz. It is most annoying.


----------



## shapeshifter44

The problem is described in this post. http://www.head-fi.org/t/791165/cd-transport-needed-for-schiit-mjolnir-2-head-amp-gungnir-multibit-dac
  
 Thanks


----------



## shapeshifter44

Yes. Is muting relay a feature only owned by Schiit or it is common in the industry? 
 Thanks


----------



## daverich4

joseph69 said:


> I understand what @shapeshifter44 is referring to.
> It is the muting relay on the Schiit DACs (except the Modi) that doesn't play well with some Cd players like my Sony CDP C-601/701ES models. When in pause/skip/fast forward mode the muting relay continuously opens/closes besides when switching between bit/kHz. It is most annoying.


 

 Thanks for the heads up. The only thing I play in my Sony SCD 777ES are SACD's which I don't run through the Gumby so I haven't been aware of that particular problem. I'll plug the optical out from the Sony into the Gumby to play some CD's and see what I get.


----------



## joseph69

daverich4 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. The only thing I play in my Sony SCD 777ES are SACD's which I don't run through the Gumby so I haven't been aware of that particular problem. I'll plug the optical out from the Sony into the Gumby to play some CD's and see what I get.


 
 Other members have other model Sony Cd players that have no issues with the muting relay, so it doesn't mean Schiit DAC's won't play well with all Sony Cd players…but unfortunately mine don't play well together with Schiit DSC's.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> Other members have other model Sony Cd players that have no issues with the muting relay, so it doesn't mean Schiit DAC's won't play well with all Sony Cd players…but unfortunately mine don't play well together with Schiit DSC's


 
  
 Could you have a bad Schiit DAC?


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Looking forward to seeing 20 years worth of tubes coming onto the market that a few months ago blew everything else away
> 
> I've noticed a lot of people on here always rave about how much better the shiny new toy is over the old toy. Maybe it's similar to a new girlfriend/boyfriend where they seem so much better than the old girlfriend/boyfriend, but a year later things aren't quite so rosy...
> 
> With headphone amps I tend to try and keep both around for a while, and it looks like Badas is going to do the same (be interested in your thoughts after a few months, but have to admit I'm already intrigued). I had a few headphone amps, but now I'm down to just two (both tubes). Adding a SS headphone amp could make for a nice addition, but I can't see myself not ever having a tube headphone amp.


 
  
 I agree. Even tho to my ear the V281 SS amp is beating the Woo WA22 my WA22 is not going anywhere. Tubes are nostalgic.
  
 I did more side by side listening last night. V281 beats WA22 in just about every sound aspect except mid-range. There is plenty of mid-range on the V281 however the WA22 just edges it.
  
 Everything else like clean bass, clean treble, soundstage and I can't believe it holographics is better on the V281. It also has authority. It just sounds beefy. Like a boss. V281 is known as a "plays any HP amp" and you can hear it. It made my LCD-3's sound like something stronger like Abyss.
  
 There is a reason some Woo members have moved to Violectric (3803Joe comes to mind (also a V281)). Violectric sounds like a beefed up Woo but without the hassle of tubes.
 I plan to do 99.9% of my HP listening using the V281. Just those odd do nothing days I will use the WA22.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I agree. Even tho to my ear the V281 SS amp is beating the Woo WA22 my WA22 is not going anywhere. Tubes are nostalgic.
> 
> I did more side by side listening last night. V281 beats WA22 in just about every sound aspect except mid-range. There is plenty of mid-range on the V281 however the WA22 just edges it.
> 
> ...




Probably why they are updating it.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Probably why they are updating it.


 

 Are you talking about the WA22 update?
  
 I think the point here is tubes use to have certain advantages over SS. Like silky and holographic sound.
 Not anymore. You get those tube advantages plus all the advantages of SS without the hassle of tubes.
  
 Updating the tube amp won't bridge the gap.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> Could you have a bad Schiit DAC?


 
 No, I had both the Bitfrost/Gungnir 2 and they both did it with my Sony Cd players.
 In the Schiit FAQ it states this may happen with some Cd players and it is totally fine for the muting relay to open/close, but I just couldn't accept the noise. I've since moved on to the PWD-ll and have no issues at all using my Cd players.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Are you talking about the WA22 update?
> 
> I think the point here is tubes use to have certain advantages over SS. Like silky and holographic sound.
> Not anymore. You get those tube advantages plus all the advantages of SS without the hassle of tubes.
> ...


 
 Yeah I'm sure the v281 is good and I'll probably get one if on par with taurus and LAu as they say but you can't get second order distortion from ss amps that's why there's transistor hash - fatigue faster for me listening to ss amps.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> Yeah I'm sure the v281 is good and I'll probably get one if on par with taurus and LAu as they say but you can't get second order distortion from ss amps that's why there's transistor hash - fatigue faster for me listening to ss amps.


 

 I know what you mean for fatigue. My Oppo HA-1 that this V281 is replacing was bad for that. It improved with a different DAC tho. Not enough for me to actually like it.
  
 Look at some of the reviews of the V281. They talk about no fatigue. I certainly haven't heard anything suggesting it yet.
 A friend I trust said the V281 needs a few hundred hours to settle (like a NOS tube). I haven't heard the need for that. However his ears are a lot more sensitive to it than mine. He also moved from a custom 300B tube amp to the V281.
  
 Sylvania tubes fatigue me the fastest. So harsh.


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> He also moved from a custom 300B tube amp to the V281.


 
  
 Is the 300B for sale?


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Is the 300B sale?


 

 No. Just sitting there.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> I agree. Even tho to my ear the V281 SS amp is beating the Woo WA22 my WA22 is not going anywhere. Tubes are nostalgic.
> 
> I did more side by side listening last night. V281 beats WA22 in just about every sound aspect except mid-range. There is plenty of mid-range on the V281 however the WA22 just edges it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow I almost hate to hear this cuz I really love the sound of my wa22 (with the right tubes of course), Guess the only thing for me to do now is to give the v281 a good long listen for myself..Enjoy


----------



## zeissiez

abvolt said:


> badas said:
> 
> 
> > No reason to worry, there are certain things that SS amps can't quite deliver as well as tube amps: tube bloom, deep soundstage
> ...


----------



## phonyx

I'm not getting the V281 FOTM thing. To me it's strong point is a wide sound stage. But tone wise it's lean, especially in the bass region. Sounds a little clinical. A little too bright. I side by sided it today with my Liquid Carbon driving my HE1000's and I preferred the LC tonally but the V281 definitely had a larger sound stage. I have forgotten what the WA22 sounds like specifically, but I listened to it a lot before I purchased my WA5 and felt it was congested and dull, really did nothing for me at all. So I can understand if coming from a WA22 (how I remember it) a V281 would sound clean, clear and wide, but coming from a good solid state amp or the WA5 it ain't that special, in my opinion. And that sucks, because I wanted it to be great - the wife doesn't love the WA5 out with our child around it so if I'm honest I'm looking for a SS replacement with similar abilities and from the opinions in here and others thought it could be it.


----------



## joseph69

phonyx said:


> I'm not getting the V281 FOTM thing. To me it's strong point is a wide sound stage. But tone wise it's lean, especially in the bass region. Sounds a little clinical. A little too bright. I side by sided it today with my Liquid Carbon driving my HE1000's and I preferred the LC tonally but the V281 definitely had a larger sound stage. I have forgotten what the WA22 sounds like specifically, but I listened to it a lot before I purchased my WA5 and felt it was congested and dull, really did nothing for me at all. So I can understand if coming from a WA22 (how I remember it) a V281 would sound clean, clear and wide, but coming from a good solid state amp or the WA5 it ain't that special, in my opinion. And that sucks, because I wanted it to be great - the wife doesn't love the WA5 out with our child around it so if I'm honest I'm looking for a SS replacement with similar abilities and from the opinions in here and others thought it could be it.


 
 GS-X Mk2
 This amp IMO/IME meets all the criteria that I've read about the V281.
Excellent transparency/dimension/sound-stage/instrument placement and speed. IMO the Mk2 sounds warm as well regardless of most saying it sounds bright…I do not find this amp to be bright sounding in any way/shape/form, but it could very well be my chain.


----------



## phonyx

joseph69 said:


> GS-X Mk2
> This amp IMO/IME meets all the criteria that I've read about the V281.
> Excellent transparency/dimension/sound-stage/instrument placement and speed. IMO the Mk2 sounds warm as well regardless of most saying it sounds bright…I do not find this amp to be bright sounding in any way/shape/form, but it could very well be my chain.


 
  
  
 Yes. I think you are right on this, I was reading about them again today - I think it was dubstep girl who mentioned one at some point and I went looking after that. I have located one locally - stock permitting going to audition it tomorrow 
  
@joseph69 What DAC are you running into it and what headphones do you have?


----------



## joseph69

phonyx said:


> Yes. I think you are right on this, I was reading about them again today - I think it was dubstep girl who mentioned one at some point and I went looking after that. I have located one locally - stock permitting going to audition it tomorrow
> 
> @joseph69 What DAC are you running into it and what headphones do you have?


 
 I'm using a PS-Audio Perfectwave DAC-ll with the Bridge-ll (balanced/ethernet connection) with my (balanced) PS1K/GH1/RS1i. I had borrowed the HE1K back when I had the GS-1 and did enjoy them very much, so I'd think they would sound fantastic through the Mk2 balanced. At one point Justin was offering the Mk2/HE1K combo with a $500.00 rebate. I know you already have the HE1K, just saying.
  
 Looking forward to hearing your impressions (stock permitting of course). Are you going to use the HE1K in both SE/balanced when/if you audition tomorrow?


----------



## phonyx

joseph69 said:


> I'm using a PS-Audio Perfectwave DAC-ll with the Bridge-ll (balanced/ethernet connection) with my (balanced) PS1K/GH1/RS1i. I had borrowed the HE1K back when I had the GS-1 and did enjoy them very much, so I'd think they would sound fantastic through the Mk2 balanced. At one point Justin was offering the Mk2/HE1K combo with a $500.00 rebate. I know you already have the HE1K, just saying.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your impressions (stock permitting of course). Are you going to use the HE1K in both SE/balanced when/if you audition tomorrow?


 
  
 Ah super nice DAC you have there. They run almost 9K AUD here with the bridge and I was mighty tempted to use one in the HiFi system, but then I decided to upgrade my headFi setup... 
  
 Yes I'll try the HE1K both SE and Balanced, usually depends on the amp as to which I prefer. The WA5 nature changes quite a bit with the balanced out and HE1K, I would probably say it was a SS amp if I heard it blind. The WA5 SE works much better with these phones IMO. That said the Cavalli LC really benefits from using the balanced connection, so I will try both and see 1. if I like the amp and 2. which method of connection is better for me. I will be sad to see the WA5 go, I may hold onto it for those times I can break out the whisky and enjoy some tubes, but that could be quite the wait and I could increase my DAC budget if I move it on...I'd rather have one excellent setup than a couple mediocre ones. 
  
  
 Edit - what am I saying, I won't sell the WA5. Crazy talk. A high end SS and high end tube amp is the perfect pairing!!
  
 Edit 2 - really wish I could put this up against a Cavalli LAu. My one concern is I'm worried the GSX will be too bright for me. @joseph69 did you find it bright? Fatiguing?


----------



## Arcamera

Is there a new WA22 in the works? Anyone have any info on that?


----------



## jerick70

arcamera said:


> Is there a new WA22 in the works? Anyone have any info on that?




Yes there is. It's called the WA22 SE. Cost is going to be in the $6k range. The specs haven't been released yet because it is still in development. You can listen to a prototype at RMAF if you are going.


----------



## joseph69

phonyx said:


> Ah super nice DAC you have there. They run almost 9K AUD here with the bridge and I was mighty tempted to use one in the HiFi system, but then I decided to upgrade my headFi setup...
> 
> Yes I'll try the HE1K both SE and Balanced, usually depends on the amp as to which I prefer. The WA5 nature changes quite a bit with the balanced out and HE1K, I would probably say it was a SS amp if I heard it blind. The WA5 SE works much better with these phones IMO. That said the Cavalli LC really benefits from using the balanced connection, so I will try both and see 1. if I like the amp and 2. which method of connection is better for me. I will be sad to see the WA5 go, I may hold onto it for those times I can break out the whisky and enjoy some tubes, but that could be quite the wait and I could increase my DAC budget if I move it on...I'd rather have one excellent setup than a couple mediocre ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you, and WOW that quite expensive for you down under!!!
 Yes, it would be super nice to have both a high end SS/tube amp.
 As I mentioned before, I don't find the Mk2 to be bright in any way/shape/form but it could be my chain. No fatigue at all for me.


----------



## Arcamera

jerick70 said:


> Yes there is. It's called the WA22 SE. Cost is going to be in the $6k range. The specs haven't been released yet because it is still in development. You can listen to a prototype at RMAF if you are going.


 

 Thanks for the info. Exciting-- and out of my league. Alas.


----------



## jerick70

arcamera said:


> Thanks for the info. Exciting-- and out of my league. Alas.


 
  
 FYI... Here is a link to a pic that Woo posted on their Instagram page...
  
 https://www.instagram.com/p/BHsvh6Mg_O_/
  
 You can always look at purchasing the original WA22 after the SE is released.  Woo usually drops pricing.


----------



## jhljhl

Listening with the wu4gb copper caps - initial impressions there is a blacker background and a faster attack and decay also a decrease in bloom but also can perceived as a decrease in holographics. Seems like a good buy for the money particularly for big busy instrumental passages.


----------



## leftside

jhljhl said:


> Listening with the wu4gb copper caps - initial impressions there is a blacker background and a faster attack and decay also a decrease in bloom but also can perceived as a decrease in holographics. Seems like a good buy for the money particularly for big busy instrumental passages.


 
 Yes very good value for the money. Just seems to lack that certain magic (bloom?) that I get with other rectifiers such as the fat bottle Cossor.


----------



## phonyx

joseph69 said:


> Thank you, and WOW that quite expensive for you down under!!!
> Yes, it would be super nice to have both a high end SS/tube amp.
> As I mentioned before, I don't find the Mk2 to be bright in any way/shape/form but it could be my chain. No fatigue at all for me.




Yes things cost stupid money here. Should see our house prices...

Anyway. I took my little matrix XSABRE and cavalli LC into the store. 

They broke out the GSXMKII and I selected a set of HE1000 v2's (closest I could get to mine, I would have taken my v1's had I know they didn't have any there).

I listened to a bunch of stuff moving between my LC as a familiar reference and the GSX. 

I can see what people mean - the GSX has got quite a strong top end, it would be very sharp with HD800's!! 
The HE's were ok with it, but the detail and brightness if you want to call it that were near or at my limit of tolerance right off the bat. Since that was the case at first impression, I know it'd get fatiguing for me after a couple hours and basically rule out certain albums due to close mic'd cymbals, acoustic guitars or other bright percussive sounds. I do most of my listening later at night so I'm not after a high energy sharp detailed sound. Cool amp, but not for me. 

I got talking and they got a bead on what I was looking for. Basically the closest thing to the WA5 with modded tubes but a SS. The WA5 is not your typical slow warm tube amp which they recognised, and it also sets a very high standard for sound stage, liquidity of the mids, authorative but accurate inviting bass and clear but never hard or harsh treble. 

They suggested I try out the Moon 430HA. Wow what an amp. It's got all the treble detail, clarity and speed of the GSX MKII but none of the sharpness that would occasionally make me wince. It's got more bass authority and the timbre seems more accurate to me (the GSX felt a touch lean?)

I've taken a step back to think, but I do think I'll return and grab the Moon amp. It's just so brilliantly neutral but ever so slightly warm and inviting, if that makes sense. I could listen to that thing for hours. It also has the best volume knob I've ever felt (it has no limiters and spins solidly with super light notches for extremely fine control), which is a plus, and the remote means I can retire to the couch in the study and still control volume if needed. Another cool feature was cross feed. I didn't listen to anything I preferred to have it enabled with as it significantly reduced the lateral sound stage but vocals immediately became 'in front of' not 'within' my head, which was a really neat perception alteration. I'm sure there's material that would benefit from it!


----------



## joseph69

@phonyx 
  
 Sorry to hear about your sibilance issue with the Mk2, but glad you have found the 430HA to suit your needs! As you know, hearing is very subjective and many things come into play, but at least you had the opportunity to hear both for yourself instead of buying blindly.
 Enjoy the 430HA.


----------



## leftside

I too have considered the 430HA. I must try and get a listen sometime.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

jerick70 said:


> FYI... Here is a link to a pic that Woo posted on their Instagram page...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BHsvh6Mg_O_/
> 
> You can always look at purchasing the original WA22 after the SE is released.  Woo usually drops pricing.


 
  
 WA22 will remain in our products portfolio unchanged. WA22- $1999 for base model, $2499 with PRE output.


----------



## Badas

phonyx said:


> Yes things cost stupid money here. Should see our house prices...
> 
> Anyway. I took my little matrix XSABRE and cavalli LC into the store.
> 
> ...




There is a few things to watch out for wth the 430HA.

1. It treble rolls. We were shocked to hear that tube amps had more detail than a SS amp.
2. Speed. It is fairly slow. Also not usual for SS.

Agreed tho a relaxed sound that you could use for hours on end.

The V281 had better detail and speed. With a nice touch of warmth. It also has a nicer easier on your wallet price.


----------



## Badas

I've had back to back sessions with the WA22. 

Once with WU4GB copper cap. The other with the TAK274B. 

They are close. However with the TAK274B what springs to mind is "where is the bass?" The SS rectifier has that bass advantage.

To me that lack of bass makes the TAK274B sound leaner. TAK274B is definitely the nicest tube rectifier I have heard.

Either rectifiers are nice. Big price differences tho.


----------



## Arcamera

Just wondering if any Woo amp owners who listen to classical as all or part of their sonic diets can comment on which you would prefer for that genre: the WA2 or WA22? To be used unbalanced for the moment with say the HD800, and possibly later with the Focal Utopia. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## jhljhl

arcamera said:


> Just wondering if any Woo amp owners who listen to classical as all or part of their sonic diets can comment on which you would prefer for that genre: the WA2 or WA22? To be used unbalanced for the moment with say the HD800, and possibly later with the Focal Utopia. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.


 

 Between the two I would get the wa22 from my experience with hd800 and having owned both amps however I've heard the utopia's are much easier to drive.


----------



## jhljhl

leftside said:


> Yes very good value for the money. Just seems to lack that certain magic (bloom?) that I get with other rectifiers such as the fat bottle Cossor.


 
  
  
 Yes it seems that the music seems a little flatter- the imaging seems less holographic less 3d or bloom or whatever though there is a faster attack.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

arcamera said:


> Just wondering if any Woo amp owners who listen to classical as all or part of their sonic diets can comment on which you would prefer for that genre: the WA2 or WA22? To be used unbalanced for the moment with say the HD800, and possibly later with the Focal Utopia. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.


 
  
 WA22 is better in every way.


----------



## jerick70

hifiguy528 said:


> WA22 is better in every way.




The WA5-LE is even better.


----------



## phonyx

arcamera said:


> Just wondering if any Woo amp owners who listen to classical as all or part of their sonic diets can comment on which you would prefer for that genre: the WA2 or WA22? To be used unbalanced for the moment with say the HD800, and possibly later with the Focal Utopia. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.




The WA22 is the tubiest sounding amp in my opinion, and for classical I prefer more accuracy than its capable of. Wouldn't a 6SE be better suited to those large dynamic swings and be more faithful to the recording?


----------



## jhljhl

Tried tung sol rp 6sn7 for first time in wa5le: they are transparent with touch of warmth and clear treble extension. Tried them with the copper caps. Very nice tubes - I can see why they demand such a high price. The tung sol 6f8g I have are very similar but seem to have a little more warmth and holographic bloom but was using with tube rectifiers. Anyway, both are excellent tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

I have an original WA5 for sale if anyone is interested. PM me. cheers


----------



## Porteroso

jhljhl said:


> Tried tung sol rp 6sn7 for first time in wa5le: they are transparent with touch of warmth and clear treble extension. Tried them with the copper caps. Very nice tubes - I can see why they demand such a high price. The tung sol 6f8g I have are very similar but seem to have a little more warmth and holographic bloom but was using with tube rectifiers. Anyway, both are excellent tubes.


 
 Yes, they are. From recollection, the 6SN7 and 6F8G are essentially identical tubes. If you do listen to both with the same rectification, and spot any differences, it would be good to know about it.
  
 The copper caps are just great for the money, the more I listen. Hard to recommend the Brimar anymore.


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> Yes, they are. From recollection, the 6SN7 and 6F8G are essentially identical tubes. If you do listen to both with the same rectification, and spot any differences, it would be good to know about it.
> 
> The copper caps are just great for the money, the more I listen. Hard to recommend the Brimar anymore.


 

 I've heard TS RP 6SN7, 6SL7 and 6C8G. I didn't pick up on any sound differences. Just 6L and 6C produced a higher gain.
  
 Hard to recommend TAK274B either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still I like having two in the collection.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> I've heard TS RP 6SN7, 6SL7 and 6C8G. I didn't pick up on any sound differences. Just 6L and 6C produced a higher gain.
> 
> Hard to recommend TAK274B either.
> 
> ...


 

 I preferred the ts 6f8g over the 6sl7 because the latter sounded smoother but did not have the air and extension of the former with both using tube rectifiers.
  
 Also, tried telefunken 12ax7 using 6sn7 adapters they sound very good with the hd650 but seemed like not enough gain or something like detailed but "thin" for the hd800- sounded good but not as good as with the warmer hd650. As is known wa5le is midrange rich but the tele's seem to clean it up which allows the details to show up but reduces the midrange bloom.


----------



## Badas

jhljhl said:


> I preferred the ts 6f8g over the 6sl7 because the latter sounded smoother but did not have the air and extension of the former with both using tube rectifiers.
> 
> Also, tried telefunken 12ax7 using 6sn7 adapters they sound very good with the hd650 but seemed like not enough gain or something like detailed but "thin" for the hd800- sounded good but not as good as with the warmer hd650.


 

 Interesting stuff.


----------



## jhljhl

badas said:


> Interesting stuff.


 
 Yeah also ECC80 are good drivers too.


----------



## pervysage

hifiguy528 said:


> WA22 will remain in our products portfolio unchanged. WA22- $1999 for base model, $2499 with PRE output.




Just wondering. What would be some common uses of the pre output for people who go with that option? And what benefits do you get from using it?


----------



## Badas

pervysage said:


> Just wondering. What would be some common uses of the pre output for people who go with that option? And what benefits do you get from using it?


 

 It's really only useful if you want to colour the sound to another amplifier. To get the tube sound signature to another amp.
 It gets used a lot for speakers.
  
 DAC > Tube amp (then colours the sound) > more powerful solid state amp > speakers. In this setup you get the basic tube sound signature however some holographics will be lost.


----------



## pervysage

badas said:


> It's really only useful if you want to colour the sound to another amplifier. To get the tube sound signature to another amp.
> It gets used a lot for speakers.
> 
> DAC > Tube amp (then colours the sound) > more powerful solid state amp > speakers. In this setup you get the basic tube sound signature however some holographics will be lost.




Cool, thanks for the explanation. That does sound pretty useful if wanting to inject some tube sound into a speaker setup. 

I am guessing the volume control on the WA22 would be used in conjuction with a power amp or can you use a integrated amplifier and have the WA22 send full signal it?


----------



## Badas

pervysage said:


> Cool, thanks for the explanation. That does sound pretty useful if wanting to inject some tube sound into a speaker setup.
> 
> *I am guessing the volume control on the WA22 would be used in conjuction with a power amp or can you use a integrated amplifier and have the WA22 send full signal it?*


 
  
 I don't know about that one. There is a few members here that have that added option on the WA22. Try PMing Contrails.


----------



## thecrow

shapeshifter44 said:


> Looking for a balanced DAC for my WA22 with Sennheiser Hd800s. I usually listen to classical music.
> 
> Requirements: 1. Around $1000 dollar. 2. MUST be able to work fine with a CD transport/player!
> 
> ...


Member "project86" has done a lot of dac reviews that might be helpful


----------



## pervysage

What's up with the WA22-SE? I was hoping to see some impressions from RMAF but there have been zero. Did the prototype even end up being shown at the show?


----------



## phase0

pervysage said:


> What's up with the WA22-SE? I was hoping to see some impressions from RMAF but there have been zero. Did the prototype even end up being shown at the show?


 
  
 It was there in the JPS Labs room, next to a WA5. I listened for a while. I thought 'this is okay', and then I listened to the WA5 and I enjoyed it more (both with the Abyss). I didn't take any notes so IDK that I can really get any more specific. My conclusion was that I would skip it and get a WA5. I chatted w/ Mike briefly and his response basically 'it's a prototype'. I think for the suggested asking price it needs more work and should be on the same level as the WA5. Both systems were connected to the Abyss. It didn't sound bad and nothing offended me about it. I just thought the WA5 system was better. I listened to the WA234 for about 30 seconds and that quick glimpse I couldn't really tell any diff from the WA5. As far as taste preferences I thought the WA22-SE was too dark. I have a silver preference as it's easier to see the knob settings. Probably not a big deal especially for the people that want the black theme but I would have liked to have more visible settings with contrast to the black.


----------



## musicman59

phase0 said:


> It was there in the JPS Labs room, next to a WA5. I listened for a while. I thought 'this is okay', and then I listened to the WA5 and I enjoyed it more (both with the Abyss). I didn't take any notes so IDK that I can really get any more specific. My conclusion was that I would skip it and get a WA5. I chatted w/ Mike briefly and his response basically 'it's a prototype'. I think for the suggested asking price it needs more work and should be on the same level as the WA5. Both systems were connected to the Abyss. It didn't sound bad and nothing offended me about it. I just thought the WA5 system was better. I listened to the WA234 for about 30 seconds and that quick glimpse I couldn't really tell any diff from the WA5. As far as taste preferences I thought the WA22-SE was too dark. I have a silver preference as it's easier to see the knob settings. Probably not a big deal especially for the people that want the black theme but I would have liked to have more visible settings with contrast to the black.


 
 I did the same thing and agree with you. IMO the WA5 (LE) sounded better at least with the Abyss.


----------



## pervysage

phase0 said:


> It was there in the JPS Labs room, next to a WA5. I listened for a while. I thought 'this is okay', and then I listened to the WA5 and I enjoyed it more (both with the Abyss). I didn't take any notes so IDK that I can really get any more specific. My conclusion was that I would skip it and get a WA5. I chatted w/ Mike briefly and his response basically 'it's a prototype'. I think for the suggested asking price it needs more work and should be on the same level as the WA5. Both systems were connected to the Abyss. It didn't sound bad and nothing offended me about it. I just thought the WA5 system was better. I listened to the WA234 for about 30 seconds and that quick glimpse I couldn't really tell any diff from the WA5. As far as taste preferences I thought the WA22-SE was too dark. I have a silver preference as it's easier to see the knob settings. Probably not a big deal especially for the people that want the black theme but I would have liked to have more visible settings with contrast to the black.







musicman59 said:


> I did the same thing and agree with you. IMO the WA5 (LE) sounded better at least with the Abyss.




Cool. Thanks for the impressions guys. 

That's too bad, maybe it still needs some more work in prototype form before it's ready.


----------



## bblegram

Hello
I have a WA6-SE and a Headphone Audeze LCD-3, last version 110ohms. I am using rectifier tubes USAF 596 and drivers tubes 6gl7, 6fd7 and 6rd7. My question is in which output (High or Low) is more technically correct to my LCD-3 (110ohms). 110 ohms is considered high or low impedance?
Thank you


----------



## Badas

bblegram said:


> [COLOR=454545]Hello[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=454545]I have a WA6-SE and a Headphone Audeze LCD-3, last version 110ohms. I am using rectifier tubes USAF 596 and drivers tubes 6gl7, 6fd7 and 6rd7. My question is in which output (High or Low) is more technically correct to my LCD-3 (110ohms). 110 ohms is considered high or low impedance?[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=454545]Thank you[/COLOR]




It's whatever setting sounds best. I did a lot of switching between high and low on my WA22 / LCD3C combo and preferred the low setting. There wasn't really a lot in it tho.


----------



## abvolt

I would also agree with Badas the low impedance side sounds better, but i'm also using high gain tubes (ts 5998's), when I use something like a mullard 6080 it sounds best on high with hp's on speakers best is set to low fun to just play..Enjoy


----------



## HiFiGuy528

pervysage said:


> Cool. Thanks for the impressions guys.
> 
> That's too bad, maybe it still needs some more work in prototype form before it's ready.


 
  
 WA22-SE is still in development phase. The sound is far from being finalized. Look for more prototype showings and estimated launch in Spring / Summer 2017.


----------



## Toolman

hifiguy528 said:


> WA22-SE is still in development phase. The sound is far from being finalized. Look for more prototype showings and estimated launch in Spring / Summer 2017.


 
  
 You mean...start saving up?


----------



## Porteroso

As someone who was thinking about getting into the WA5 world, but in a few years, it will be interesting to see what the WA22-SE can offer over the WA5. I've heard such conviction in the completely conflicting reports of balanced versus single ended that I don't really know what to think. Not that this will put that to rest, since it is 2 different amps, but it will be interesting to see what people's impressions are when it finally comes to market.


----------



## SuperPollito

I recently picked up a WA7tp setup and am thrilled, I didn't know a headphone system could sound so good!


----------



## jerick70

superpollito said:


> I recently picked up a WA7tp setup and am thrilled, I didn't know a headphone system could sound so good!




The WA7 is a great little amp. I use it at work and keep surprising myself with how good it is. I hope you enjoy it for a long time.

If you haven't already upgraded tubes I recommend the Electro Harmonix gold pins. I have a pair of cryoed EHs and they are even better.

What headphones are you running with the WA7


----------



## SuperPollito

Right now I'm using the ElectroHarmonix Gold in the amp and Mullard CV4003 in the power supply, with a pair of Oppo PM-3. Eventually I'd like to try the LCD 2 but for now, this sounds amazing and my wife would already kill me if she had any idea how much I spent haha. I haven't gotten around to trying the stock tubes to see the difference but that may be my goal for the weekend.


----------



## jerick70

superpollito said:


> Right now I'm using the ElectroHarmonix Gold in the amp and Mullard CV4003 in the power supply, with a pair of Oppo PM-3. Eventually I'd like to try the LCD 2 but for now, this sounds amazing and my wife would already kill me if she had any idea how much I spent haha. I haven't gotten around to trying the stock tubes to see the difference but that may be my goal for the weekend.




May I recommend the ZMF Blackwood? I sold my LCD-2s because of these gems. They sound very similar to the LCD-2 but give you much more micro detail. Highly recommended and they cost a lot less. Plus Zach from ZMF is the best.


----------



## davehg

I got 1/2 of my WA5 delivered (the other half comes tomorrow!) from the seller, and after it arrived, I set about cleaning it up, as it arrived a bit  dusty, and the finish seemed dull compared to my WA22. An hour with some good metal polish made the amp glow once again, and I next spent a good 30 min cleaning the various contacts - tube pins, RCA and speaker jacks, with electronic contact cleaner and Q-tips. I used 15 of them, and each was pretty black with oxidation, dirt, and dust (I cleaned the outsides and took some of the cotton off and cleaned the inside of the RCA jack too).
  
 That got my thinking about the WA22, and I spent another 20 min cleaning the RCA pins, tube sockets, and the RCA cable ends. Once again, I had a pile of dirty Qtips. Hooked the WA22 back up, and wow - it sure sounded better. I was surprised how oxidized the contacts were and I wonder if that was responsible for it sounding better.


----------



## davehg

The other half of the WA5 came in today, and some additional cleaning and it was ready to try out. I popped in a set of fresh Genelec 300Bs, otherwise it's running Sylvania 6SN7s and Sovtek 5AU4s (I had some Brimars but they were noisy on the WA5).
  
 Waiting to let the Genelecs burn in, but first impressions are very positive! This amp has some serious power - it grips the LCD3's like nothing else, and the HD650's...wow, it's amazing how they come alive with this kind of power.
  

  
  
 .


----------



## jerick70

davehg said:


> I got 1/2 of my WA5 delivered (the other half comes tomorrow!) from the seller, and after it arrived, I set about cleaning it up, as it arrived a bit  dusty, and the finish seemed lightly dull compared to my WA22. An hour with some good metal polish made the amp glow once again, and I next spent a good 30 min cleaning the various contacts - tube pins, RCA and speaker jacks, with electronic contact cleaner and Q-tips. I used 15 of them, and each was pretty black with oxidation, dirt, and dust (I cleaned the outsides and took some of the cotton off and cleaned the inside of the RCA jack too).
> 
> That got my thinking about the WA22, and I spent another 20 min cleaning the RCA pins, tube sockets, and the RCA cable ends. Once again, I had a pile of dirty Qtips. Hooked the WA22 back up, and wow - it sure sounded better. I was surprised how oxidized the contacts were and I wonder if that was responsible for it sounding better.







davehg said:


> The other half of the WA5 came in today, and some additional cleaning and it was ready to try out. I popped in a set of fresh Genelec 300Bs, otherwise it's running Sylvania 6SN7s and Sovtek 5AU4s (I had some Brimars but they were noisy on the WA5).
> 
> Waiting to let the Genelecs burn in, but first impressions are very positive! This amp has some serious power - it grips the LCD3's like nothing else, and the HD650's...wow, it's amazing how they come alive with this kind of power.
> 
> ...




Congrats Dave! Nice setup! Welcome to the WA5 club!

How are the Genalex 300Bs compared to the stock tubes that came with your WA5?


----------



## leftside

Nice turntable. I've looked at that one myself. Nothing like the sound of turntable + tubes. I also strongly considered the EAR 834P.
  
We've got quite similar turntable setups. Mine is in my signature.


----------



## davehg

jerick70 said:


> Congrats Dave! Nice setup! Welcome to the WA5 club!
> 
> How are the Genalex 300Bs compared to the stock tubes that came with your WA5?


 
  
 That's it? Just a "welcome"?  You said there'd be t-shirts! (Seriously, how about a tee with a large 300B tube, with "Tube, or not Tube. That is the Question." printed underneath)​.
  
 Jerick, note your old WA22 next door - I still like the sound of this amp with the Sennheiser, and it pairs nicely with the balanced outs from my Sony HAPZ1ES...I may keep it for a basement system, which is saying something since I don't have a basement.
  
 Hard to tell on the Genlecs with just one day, as they need to burn in likely. I'll give it a week and then swap for the Shugang's.
  
 I may need to find some more Brimars or maybe pop for another Sophia Princess to make it a full pair. damn, this amp is an excuse to light money on fire.
  
 Left Side, the EAR is a recent purchase too. I'm sending it out to the EAR factory tech, Mitch Singerman, who swaps the stock caps, diodes, and resistors for premium parts, and it is supposed to make the EAR unbeatable. But I hear nice things about the Alnic too.


----------



## davehg

I will say, having started with the Woo 6SE, then the WA22, and now the WA5, I think Woo has its branding all wrong.
  
 Should be:
  
 WA6= Woo
 6SE= Woo!
 WA22 = Woot!
 WA22 SE = Woot! Woot!
 WA5=  Woo Hoo!
  
 Not sure where that leaves the WA234. Maybe 'Wha What?"


----------



## davehg

Forgot about the WA3. Maybe that is the "Whazzup?"


----------



## davehg

Well, I may have spoke to soon.
  
 The recently arrived WA5 is distorting in the right channel. I've swapped tubes and sources left to right, and it wasn't cured. The first time it happened, it took about an hour of warm up and the problem seem to disappear. I get a loud pop when the powering down too, and I also noticed when the amp is on and I am close to the rectifiers, I can hear a "rushing sound". 
  
 I've swapped out different tubes too thinking it was a bad rectifier or 6SN7, but they work fine on the WA22, and swapping didn't cure anything.  
  
 Any ideas? I hate to think this amp has to criss-cross back to Brooklyn for an assessment.


----------



## phonyx

If it's not tube related and you don't feel like opening it up, sounds like a warranty claim I'm afraid


----------



## jerick70

davehg said:


> That's it? Just a "welcome"?  You said there'd be t-shirts! (Seriously, how about a tee with a large 300B tube, with "Tube, or not Tube. That is the Question." printed underneath)​.
> 
> Jerick, note your old WA22 next door - I still like the sound of this amp with the Sennheiser, and it pairs nicely with the balanced outs from my Sony HAPZ1ES...I may keep it for a basement system, which is saying something since I don't have a basement.
> 
> ...




To make your welcome better, here is your T-shirt.  I could only find a WA6 T-shirt though. Welcome!


----------



## davehg

​


phonyx said:


> If it's not tube related and you don't feel like opening it up, sounds like a warranty claim I'm afraid


 

 ​I wouldn't know what to look for beyond the obvious signs of "fried electronics". I have some multimeters but I am afraid my diagnostic abilities are limited to basic stuff. So the amps are headed back to Woo. Hopefully the seller will cooperate - he's a previous head-fier it seems, but has not been the most responsive of sellers (not to mention the amps weren't quite as advertised - that's another issue). It's the first time in 15 years I've had a problem with any equipment I've bought online.
  
 But let's see what Woo says - they couldn't diagnose over the phone.


----------



## Porteroso

davehg said:


> ​
> 
> 
> phonyx said:
> ...


 
 I've also had an issue with my amp. It was probably priced right, but it had been opened up, messed with, screw threads stripped, etc. Works fine but not as advertised. I bet that tube amps are just the sort of hobby that people want to tinker with, and doubtful that some people want to advertise their tinkering.


----------



## Porteroso

And to post something constructive. 
  
 Haven't had my amp on much with the copper cap, but immensely pleased. I'm now running the WU4GB copper cap in my WA6. It sounds better than it ever has, I think. It gives up very little, and the driver/power tubes do enough to colour the sound.
  
 Music seems to have a bit of a fresh breath of air. If you have a WA6, I think I can say that for certain, you need to get a copper cap. It will sound better than basically anything other rectifier, and one would think that it would extend the life of your precious driver/power tubes, whatever they may be.
  
 Listening to Kubelik's version of Dvorak 7, I'll put it below in case any of you are interested. It is the sole interpretation of Dvorak 7 that I think makes sense, of the symphony that might just be Dvorak's best piece of work. The trilogy of 7, 8 and 9 is much like the great movie trilogies. The first is the best, but the second has so much emotion that you fall in love with it, and the third just blows you away. So for a time you're stuck saying 8 or 9 is best, but eventually, you return to the 7th, which has that sort of timeless charm.


----------



## Kasp3r

Im playing from my computer - > 3.5mm to L/R RCA. -> WA7 -> headphones. When would I need to use usb cable ? For the DAC? So I should be using a usb cable correct?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kasp3r said:


> Im playing from my computer - > 3.5mm to L/R RCA. -> WA7 -> headphones. When would I need to use usb cable ? For the DAC? So I should be using a usb cable correct?


 
  
 If your playing music from computer (PC or Mac), we highly recommend to use the USB input on WA7. Otherwise, you are not getting the best sound.


----------



## Kasp3r

hifiguy528 said:


> If your playing music from computer (PC or Mac), we highly recommend to use the USB input on WA7. Otherwise, you are not getting the best sound.


 
 Yep, using the USB cable ! Thank you !


----------



## Shini44

hey my WA5 friends, i did a small comparison btween LAu and WA5 (300B) here ^^ in my LAu review,

http://www.head-fi.org/t/702014/liquid-gold-2014/480#post_12995944
  
 posting here because few members in this thread, asked me about LAu vs WA5 when i ordered the LAu.


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone heard the new sophia electric 300b classic or the new aqua 274b?


----------



## Badas

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone heard the new sophia electric 300b classic or the new aqua 274b?


 

 My mate Tony got a set of the 300B. They blew up. He sent them back and they replaced. They blew up again so they went in the bin. They last 2 days at a time.
  
 He said when they weren't blowing up they sounded average.
  
 He's now running the Tak 300B's with no issues.
  
 I wouldn't put a Chinese tube in my amp. They have a bad reliability history.


----------



## jerick70

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone heard the new sophia electric 300b classic or the new aqua 274b?







badas said:


> My mate Tony got a set of the 300B. They blew up. He sent them back and they replaced. They blew up again so they went in the bin. They last 2 days at a time.
> 
> He said when they weren't blowing up they sounded average.
> 
> ...




Yikes!!!! Mental note, don't buy these tubes.

I've been using the Genalex Gold Lion PX300B with good results in my WA5. Much improved over the stock Psvane tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

badas said:


> My mate Tony got a set of the 300B. They blew up. He sent them back and they replaced. They blew up again so they went in the bin. They last 2 days at a time.
> 
> He said when they weren't blowing up they sounded average.
> 
> ...


 
 They are Chinese? really? didn't know that. Is tony the guy thats always blowing stuff up.


----------



## jerick70

magiccabbage said:


> They are Chinese? really? didn't know that. Is tony the guy thats always blowing stuff up.




Sophia is an American company that sources their tubes from China.

www.hifiwigwam.com/sophia-electric-royal-princess-300b-output-tube-an-examination-of-provenance-quality-and-production-costs-in-the-murky-world-of-audio-tube-manufacture/


----------



## Badas

magiccabbage said:


> They are Chinese? really? didn't know that. Is tony the guy thats always blowing stuff up.


 

 Yeah! He has had bad luck. Always with Chinese tubes. 300B's from other parts of the world work fine. EML and TAK.
  
 I had a set of TJ's Full music 6SN7 drivers which are Chinese. They lasted 2 sessions and blew up also. I wouldn't touch a Chinese manufactured tube ever again.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone heard the new sophia electric 300b classic or the new aqua 274b?
> ...


 
 Get your 596 rectifiers yet? I really like them. Compare them to your SS rectifier ?


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Get your 596 rectifiers yet? I really like them. Compare them to your SS rectifier ?


 

 Yip. I've got 4 of them. No adapters yet. The adapters on the way. I will compare to the SS rectifier and the Tak 274B when they arrive.
  
 To be honest I'm having a hard time turning the Woo on anymore.
 I finally installed my dream SS amp (Violectric V281) and it destroys the WA22 in every way possible.
  

  
 I'm really wrestling with the thought of tubes. I can't hear any advantages.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Get your 596 rectifiers yet? I really like them. Compare them to your SS rectifier ?
> ...


 
 Let's say its a different flavour


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Let's say its a different flavour


 

 Problem is it's a considerably weaker flavor. Then it comes with all the hassles of tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Every sound aspect of the V281 is better.
  
 Treble is sweeter with more treble detail. Not energized or spitty (nor is the WA22 with the right tubes).
 Mid-range. I thought the WA22 was better 6 months ago when I did the shootout. Not so. The V281 sounds fuller.
 Bass. No contest. SS kicks tubes butt. More and better defined.
 Holographic effect. About the same or V281 is slightly better. I have very holographic tubes installed on the WA22.
 Soundstage. No contest. V281.
 Noise floor level. V281 by a mile. At 100% volume there is no noise.
  
 So it's every aspect.
  
 I've been a big tubes guy for a while now. However now I have to admit tubes are beat.


----------



## 2359glenn

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Let's say its a different flavour
> ...


 

 Does it sound better then Tony's amp with Tak 300Bs in it.


----------



## Badas

2359glenn said:


> Does it sound better then Tony's amp with Tak 300Bs in it.


 

 I haven't heard Tony's amp with my DAC or HP's. Only with his insane Bricasti DAC and his HP's. HE-6, Utopia and Ether Flow.
 I would suspect that Tony's 300B amp beats the V281 with the right 300B's.
  
 His preferred method is using the Ether Flow directly from the DAC. No amp used at all. I have heard this once and Wow! He also has the V281 and says that beats the 300B amp with EML plate tubes (not mesh). However he suspects the 300B amp will beat the V281 with Tak 300B's or EML 300B mesh plates.
  
 He is burning in Tak 300B's right now. Early December I'm going over to have a listen. It should be good.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

badas said:


> I'm really wrestling with the thought of tubes. I can't hear any advantages.


 
  
 If you decide to let go of some of your TS BGRPs, let me know.


----------



## Badas

indiegradofan said:


> If you decide to let go of some of your TS BGRPs, let me know.


 

 Will do. I have 16 sets of them (32 tubes). I've been thinking I will never use them all.


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> Get your 596 rectifiers yet? I really like them. Compare them to your SS rectifier ?


 
  
 What was the other tubes in your setup? I might setup a similar arrangement when testing the 596.


----------



## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Get your 596 rectifiers yet? I really like them. Compare them to your SS rectifier ?
> ...


 
 596 ,ECC31/NR73 as drivers and 5998 as powers i find its a very detailed balanced sound  .Thats with Senns HD800S


----------



## Badas

mikelap said:


> 596 ,ECC31/NR73 as drivers and 5998 as powers i find its a very detailed balanced sound  .Thats with Senns HD800S




That is a sweet setup. I might not be able to scrape up somethng as good.

I think I will use 596, TSRP 6C8G and 6BL7. It should be okay.


----------



## davehg

davehg said:


> Well, I may have spoke to soon.
> 
> The recently arrived WA5 is distorting in the right channel. I've swapped tubes and sources left to right, and it wasn't cured. The first time it happened, it took about an hour of warm up and the problem seem to disappear. I get a loud pop when the powering down too, and I also noticed when the amp is on and I am close to the rectifiers, I can hear a "rushing sound".
> 
> ...


 
  
 So I sent the amps back to Woo to assess, turns out there were a few things going on - one rectifier tube was bad, solder joints to the filter chokes broke off (likely occurred when the seller originally shipped to me) and Woo reinforced a few other solder joints just to be safe. The volume control was out of synch (left to right balance) so they replaced it, along with the power switch (which kept rotating when turned on) - these seem to be defects from the original owner's use as the amps were about 7 years old.
  
 The repair costs were very reasonable - actually less than the cost of shipping both ways. A conversation with guy who sold me the amps leads me to be optimistic I will be rebated the repair and shipping costs.
  
 A big shout out to Woo - they were super responsive and extremely communicative, on a pre-owned piece too. Mike and Jack were fast to respond to emails and sent me very detailed repair estimates complete with pictures, and Jack also recommended some sensible upgrades at very reasonable cost. He completed both the assessment and repairs within 24 hours of receiving the amps!
  
 I've dealt with Woo a few times now on upgrades, recommendations, and now a repair, and their customer service is easily the best I've had during this hobby for the past 20 years. Now I just need to get those WA5's back here and hear for myself what I've read so much about on this thread.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 That's a good result.


----------



## daverich4

badas said:


> That is a sweet setup. I might not be able to scrape up somethng as good.
> 
> I think I will use 596, TSRP 6C8G and 6BL7. It should be okay.




Actually, it might not be. I've found I get a loud hum when I try to use a 596 with TS 6F8G's, I assume because of all the unshielded wires.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> Actually, it might not be. I've found I get a loud hum when I try to use a 596 with TS 6F8G's, I assume because of all the unshielded wires.


 

 I will find out tonight. My Glenn adapters have arrived.
  
 I have a 596 adapter with wires designed to go out the back. Also a new design 6F8G adapter with wires going out the back instead of the sides.
  
 I will report my findings.


----------



## hpz

I have used my wa5 with the 6f8g and 596 and don't get any hum what so ever.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> Actually, it might not be. I've found I get a loud hum when I try to use a 596 with TS 6F8G's, I assume because of all the unshielded wires.




Yip. You are right. I'm getting a buzzing sound that is usually associated with wire electrical noise. 




hpz said:


> I have used my wa5 with the 6f8g and 596 and don't get any hum what so ever.




Maybe because the drivers are miles away from rectifiers. On the WA22 you most definitely get a buzzing sound. 

596 is a nice sounding rectifier tho. Excellent detail and soundstage.


----------



## leftside

Never had any luck with tubes that had wires sticking out of them on my WA22. Always too noisy. Better suited to other amps.
  
 I tubed rolled a lot in the  beginning, but Cossor 53KU fat bottle, 4 * 6BL7's and ECC32's haven't moved in a long while. For fun, I've borrowed a few friends solid state amps and whilst some of them have sounded very good, I simply prefer the sound of tubes.


----------



## musicman59

daverich4 said:


> Actually, it might not be. I've found I get a loud hum when I try to use a 596 with TS 6F8G's, I assume because of all the unshielded wires.


 
 Yes, you are right. Those wires need to have good shielding to be quiet. Gelnn's adapters work great for them.


----------



## Badas

Here is a few photo's of the Glenn adapters. He makes the very best in the world.
  
 I really like the new way of doing the 6F8G adapter with the wire out the back rather than the side. Makes it look tidy.
  

  

  
 I took a photo of old and new 6F8G adapter (left old, right new). Out the side and out the back so you can see the difference.
  

  
 Due to the buzz coming from the 596 I've decided to go back to the Tak274B with this configuration.
  

  
 The 596 does have a stella sound. I think it might have a slight edge on the Tak 274B. More different. Tak is slightly more detailed. 596 is fuller. Nicer mid-range. I think it's better on soundstage also.
  
 I have 4 596 tubes and they won't go to waste. I will just locate some drivers without wire grids. I have a set of WW2 RCA 6SN7 Greyglass that I will try to begin with. To make sure the buzz disappears.


----------



## daverich4

musicman59 said:


> Yes, you are right. Those wires need to have good shielding to be quiet. Gelnn's adapters work great for them.


 

 I've got Glenn's adapters for the 6F8G's with the left/right orientation for the wires so they're out to each side and the Woo adapter for the 596 but none of the adapters have shielded wires so the tubes can't be used at the same time without hum. It's not a problem, just a combination that doesn't work in the WA22. My normal setup is the WE 422a rectifier with the TS 6F8G's and TS 5998's. That's a combination that works like a champ.


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> I've got Glenn's adapters for the 6F8G's with the left/right orientation for the wires so they're out to each side and the Woo adapter for the 596 but none of the adapters have shielded wires so the tubes can't be used at the same time without hum. It's not a problem, just a combination that doesn't work in the WA22. My normal setup is the WE 422a rectifier with the TS 6F8G's and TS 5998's. That's a combination that works like a champ.


 

 Yes. You were completely right. The wires buzz.
  
 596 is nice sounding tube. I'm curious how they will go with my RCA 6SN7 greyglass. The RCA have been really robust. So I will try them in the weekend. RCA are a little rolled off in the treble tho. It could be too effecting.
  
 Worst case I will stay with Tak 274B (I have two of those) 6C8g (bloody love those new adapters) and GE 6AS7GA. It's sounding really good and for the first time since getting the V281 I think the Woo still has a place in my rack.


----------



## Porteroso

Interesting, so within the space of a few days, the V281 makes your tube amp useless and irrelevant, and suddenly! it might be good? You come across as very polar. Not really interested in finding the realism in anything, just touting the extremes. I guess that makes your life exciting


----------



## Badas

porteroso said:


> Interesting, so within the space of a few days, the V281 makes your tube amp useless and irrelevant, and suddenly! it might be good? You come across as very polar. Not really interested in finding the realism in anything, just touting the extremes. I guess that makes your life exciting


 
  
 I said the tube amp has a place in my rack. Not better. Like others have said tube amps have to be a different flavor.
 I haven't changed my opinion. There is no doubt in my mind and to my ears the V281 is better. Like previously posted it beats the Woo in every sound quality.
  
 What I'm doing now is trying tube arrangements to not compete with the V281. V281 has it beat. I'm looking for a different flavor. More relaxed is what I'm thinking. Absolutely slow and mellow.
 Last night I heard things that might actually do that (especially the 596 (I'm not saying the 596 is slow)) and then in my mind justify the tube amp to stay.
  
 Does that make sense? I'm not trying to start anything. I know saying a SS amp is better than a tube amp is polarizing in this thread. Also I'm not saying the V281 is better than all tube amps. Especially the WA5 or WA234 (which I don't own or have access to hearing). I'm just saying it beats my WA22. So why not change the WA22 to a completely different sound???


----------



## leftside

porteroso said:


> Interesting, so within the space of a few days, the V281 makes your tube amp useless and irrelevant, and suddenly! it might be good? You come across as very polar. Not really interested in finding the realism in anything, just touting the extremes. I guess that makes your life exciting


 
 Get used to it  I love Badas though as he introduced me to the 6BL7's


----------



## abvolt

isn't that sweet..


----------



## Badas

daverich4 said:


> Actually, it might not be. I've found I get a loud hum when I try to use a 596 with TS 6F8G's, I assume because of all the unshielded wires.


 

 Yip. You were completely right. Obviously you can't have too many wires out on the WA22 without getting buzz. Tubes are too close. WA5 is good because the rectifiers are separate from the drive tubes.
  
 This configuration buzzed as it has wires for the rectifier and drive tubes.
  

  
 This was totally quiet as it only had wires for the rectifier.
  

  
 I didn't really listen to this configuration 596, RCA 6SN7 and GE6AS7GA. I was more listening/testing for buzz. I listen to a few familiar tracks. I was surprised. It sounded better than I thought it would. I haven't listened to the RCA6SN7 for a long while. More listening over the weekend.


----------



## ghhf

Just wonder if you guys already got aware the latest good news from Woo, limited time only in 18 Nov - 28 Nov


----------



## HiFiGuy528

ghhf said:


> Just wonder if you guys already got aware the latest good news from Woo, limited time only in 18 Nov - 28 Nov


 
  




  
  
 Heads up everybody. One week only!
  
 http://wooaudio.com/products/


----------



## SP Wild

The WA22 has exceeded my expectations. It sounds brilliant. I should have bought one years ago, but there was no distribution chain in Sydney, Australia. Now, thanks to Addicted to Audio of Sydney, Woo products are readily available with full dealer support. Audition one today, you will not be disappointed!


----------



## jerick70

sp wild said:


> The WA22 has exceeded my expectations. It sounds brilliant. I should have bought one years ago, but there was no distribution chain in Sydney, Australia. Now, thanks to Addicted to Audio of Sydney, Woo products are readily available with full dealer support. Audition one today, you will not be disappointed!


 
  
 You should try the WA5.  It will blow you away.....


----------



## SP Wild

It already has blown me away! 

Via it's price tag.


----------



## jerick70

sp wild said:


> It already has blown me away!
> 
> Via it's price tag.


 
  
 LOL!!!!  Yes it is pricy.  Worth every penny though.
  
 FYI, You can always buy used.


----------



## ghhf

jerick70 said:


> You should try the WA5.  It will blow you away.....


 
  
 Built like a tank for life time experience


----------



## abvolt

hifiguy528 said:


> Heads up everybody. One week only!
> 
> http://wooaudio.com/products/


 
 Now that's an awesome deal.. Oh yeah


----------



## ghhf

abvolt said:


> Now that's an awesome deal.. Oh yeah





About to order my 3rd tube amp from Woo，can't wait the power tank in magic black!


----------



## leftside

We need our own WA22 thread.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> We need our own WA22 thread.




It's a good idea. Am I invited??? Are you setting one up?

There is a tube rolling thread. However it would be good to have one addressing all things WA22.


----------



## MIKELAP

leftside said:


> We need our own WA22 thread.


 
 Why not


----------



## leftside

Ok guys let's see if it takes off:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826386/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite
  
 I personally will try not to post on this thread anymore and will try and post on our own dedicated thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826386/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite


----------



## abvolt

sp wild said:


> The WA22 has exceeded my expectations. It sounds brilliant. I should have bought one years ago, but there was no distribution chain in Sydney, Australia. Now, thanks to Addicted to Audio of Sydney, Woo products are readily available with full dealer support. Audition one today, you will not be disappointed!


 
  
 I couldn't agree more really love mine..Enjoy


----------



## maheeinfy

Guys,
  
 For the HPS-T headphone stand, woo website has only Black and Silver colors. But AudioAdvisor has Space gray and Gold as well.
  
 Not sure why Woo is not selling Space Gray and Gold on their website, but I digress
  
 It would help if anyone who has those can share some pics. I cant seem to find them on their websites, atleast not clear enough to make a decision


----------



## HiFiGuy528

maheeinfy said:


> Guys,
> 
> For the HPS-T headphone stand, woo website has only Black and Silver colors. But AudioAdvisor has Space gray and Gold as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can order Gold and Space Gray from us. Just let us know in the "Note to Seller" section when you order the stand on our website at checkout.


----------



## Toolman

hifiguy528 said:


> You can order Gold and Space Gray from us. Just let us know in the "Note to Seller" section when you order the stand on our website at checkout.


 

 Nice...but what about Chrome?


----------



## isquirrel

Agree with Toolman, good to have the colour choice but really miss the chrome stands. Why did they get discontinued?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

toolman said:


> Nice...but what about Chrome?


 
  
 Production cost today would be 3x the original sale price.


----------



## isquirrel

Finally managed to get a win at an eBay Auction on a matched pair of WE 300B's. Be very interesting to compare these to the latest Takatsuki 300B's. Problem is getting a pair of equivalent WE 274B's or 422A's?
  
 If anyone knows of a source I would very much appreciate it.
  
 Pics:


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Finally managed to get a win at an eBay Auction on a matched pair of WE 300B's. Be very interesting to compare these to the latest Takatsuki 300B's. Problem is getting a pair of equivalent WE 274B's or 422A's?
> 
> If anyone knows of a source I would very much appreciate it.
> 
> Pics:


 
  
  
 Keep us updated! Looking forward to impressions.


----------



## isquirrel

Hey Paddy,
  
 Apologies I have been AWOL for a while, Kidney issues. 
  
 MSB have very kindly given me the opportunity to trial their Electrostatic Headphone Amp, unfortunately there are not too many Head-Fiers around here and even less with Stax 009's or a BHSE to compare it with, but that's not not my real intention. My idea was that its rare to have a SOTA Stat system and a Valve based "normal" system to see which one takes you closer to the performance. I have honestly not spent much time at all with Stats' and I have a feeling that they are not your average GF more like Wife/Marriage material that gets better as you get to know it. I thought the differences would be quite large and therefore easy to pick a winner. That's not proving the case ! I also have no idea how long Stats and the associated amp takes to burn in. Currently sitting at 8 days and the sound is still changing or maybe my ears are.
  
 Anyway have some Head-Fi Friends visiting over the next few weeks so will be interesting to see what their impressions are.
  
 Pics:


----------



## magiccabbage

isquirrel said:


> Hey Paddy,
> 
> Apologies I have been AWOL for a while, Kidney issues.
> 
> ...


 
 I love the set up those stands are amazing. Will be a really interesting write up I'm sure whens its all together. 
  
 Let me know how you get on with the electro stats ... didn't think they would be your thing.


----------



## ghhf

davehg said:


> I will say, having started with the Woo 6SE, then the WA22, and now the WA5, I think Woo has its branding all wrong.
> 
> Should be:
> 
> ...


 

 I am running in the same way 6SE->22->5, started my own WA5 thread to keep tracking the progress (expected delivery by mid of Dec)..... my WA5 probably would be in some branding like Woo! Hoo! Wha! Oh! Yeah!


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> Hey Paddy,
> 
> Apologies I have been AWOL for a while, Kidney issues.
> 
> ...


 
 I had the opportunity to listen to the MSB system with the SR-009 (which I own) and it was the best sound I have ever heard no doubt BUT at $150K for the system I would need to win the lottery BIG in order for my wife not to kill me


----------



## shapeshifter44

Hi, HifiGuy528, I just found my WA22 is different from the picture and manual on the Woo website. The function button has Off/Hi/Lo/Pre. What is Pre for? Thank you.


----------



## jerick70

shapeshifter44 said:


> Hi, HifiGuy528, I just found my WA22 is different from the picture and manual on the Woo website. The function button has Off/Hi/Lo/Pre. What is Pre for? Thank you.


 
  
 That is for the preout connectors on the back.  The connectors allow you to hookup a  power amp and use your WA22 as a preamp.


----------



## pippen99

I put my new audio tower together yesterday and found out the WA5 works out ergonomically a lot better on a single shelf than up/down on two shelves.  In other words the umbilical is too short!.  I have contacted Woo about a longer umbilical but was wondering if anybody out there might have one or could point me toward an alternative supplier.  I need one at least 18 inches long.  Thanks


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> *Finally managed to get a win at an eBay Auction on a matched pair of WE 300B's. Be very interesting to compare these to the latest Takatsuki 300B's. Problem is getting a pair of equivalent WE 274B's or 422A's?*
> 
> ...


 
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Hey Paddy,
> 
> *Apologies I have been AWOL for a while, Kidney issues. *
> 
> ...


 
  
 Simon,
  
 No kidding, after your WE 300b post, I was about to reply with: "...did you have to sell a kidney for those tubes...?"
  
 ...and then I saw the follow-up post.
 Very sorry to hear about your heath issues and glad you are back to Head-Fi


----------



## Krutsch

isquirrel said:


> Problem is getting a pair of equivalent WE 274B's or 422A's?
> 
> If anyone knows of a source I would very much appreciate it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 PM sent.


----------



## davehg

Quote:


davehg said:


> So I sent the amps back to Woo to assess, turns out there were a few things going on - one rectifier tube was bad, solder joints to the filter chokes broke off (likely occurred when the seller originally shipped to me) and Woo reinforced a few other solder joints just to be safe. The volume control was out of synch (left to right balance) so they replaced it, along with the power switch (which kept rotating when turned on), and the 300b pin sockets that had lost tension. These seem to be defects from the original owner's use as the amps were about 7 years old.


  
 WA5's arrived back from Woo today. They looked great - in addition to the above, I had Woo replace the selector switches at their suggestion as the new ones are much easier to rotate, and a new set of driver tubes arrived as well.  
  
 I quickly set them up and had a momentary dread - turned the switch and no sound! I went crazy for a brief while, until I realized I had unplugged my source just before I left for Thanksgiving vacation. OK - plugged it back in and all good.
  
 I had first planned to briefly hook them up in my rec room to test out a recently acquired pair of ProAc Tablette 50 Signatures, a teeny tiny 2001-era speaker that outpunches its size and class. I had bought the ProAcs used to take advantage of the WA5's speaker hookups, and was slightly worried that their 89db efficiency would require more than the 8watts produced by the WA5 to play even moderately loud. These fears were totally unwarranted - the WA5  handled them easily - volume at 10-11o'clock was plenty loud with absolutely no strain. They absolutely shone on the WA5 - beautiful voicing, holographic soundstage, and stellar imaging that ProAc's are known for. These speakers adore tubes - and they are a brilliant match for the WA5. I have a REL Strata III sub in matching rosewood that I'll hook up for more low end, though the speakers don't really need it.
  
 An hour flew by. Then my wife came in and listened for another 45 min - first time she's ever sat still that long to listen to music on any of my systems. "I love this sound" she says - rarely has she seen fit to compliment my hi fi setup, even on far more expensive systems.
  


  
 Much later, I hooked up the HD650's for some solo listening. I've had a few jaw-drop moments in hi-fi, usually on a dealer's uber-expensive systems but a few on my past systems (Merlin and VAC Avatar was one of those moments, Airtight and Devore was another). This was one of those moments. I couldn't believe what I was hearing out of the 650s, which had sounded wonderful on the WA22 but were now singing like never before.
  
 LCD3f up next. I tried an older track on Tidal - U2's "Still Haven't Found What I am Looking For". I'm not a huge U2 fan but this track has such a nice solid bass groove. Oh my - the WA5 took a vice-grip hold of the LCD3 and the bass just thumped out in a way I've not heard them do up to this point. I killed another 45 min - Lou Reed, the Kinks, Ed Sheeran, James Morrison, Martin Sexton, Amos Lee, hell I even played Leon Redbone's cover of Polly Wolly Doodle All Day from his 1975 album (the one with the Warner Brothers frog on the cover)... just because I could. The track is stellar for purity of vocals and acoustic instrumentation.
  
 Every single track I streamed was just marvelous.
  
 I really need to hook up my turntable next, and also spend some time with DSD to see how much better it can get. But even with lowly Tidal high rez (albeit streamed through $3500 worth of great digital gear) sounds simply terrific. 
  
 Ok - guilty pleasure - I streamed Justin Bieber's "Love Yourself." Ed Sheeran also wrote this and sings back up - it's a well recorded and well sung pop standard, and it was so clean, clear, and imbued with bounce and rhythm, I forgot - for the duration of the track - my customary man shame that I was listening to Justin Bieber.
  
 All you WA5 owners are nodding along reading this - I am really happy I took the plunge, and even despite the mishaps with my seller (he covered repair costs - yeah!).
  
 Now what to do with the WA22. The WA5's brilliance didn't diminish the WA22 in any way - the amp still sounds magical with the HD650s and with my balanced digital source. Maybe I'll sit on this for a month or so - I got in on the MassDrop HD6xx buy and my wife will soon be getting her pair of Sennheisers, which would pair just wonderfully with the WA22. But listening to the WA5 tonight was just so magical.
  
 I wonder how this amp would sound on something like the Focal Utopia....


----------



## Badas

^

This was a nice review and a great read. 

However you lost me at Justin Bieber.


----------



## ghhf

Glad to learn that there is another happy WA5 owner, it is my turn now .....


----------



## frankietown

Was at my local audio shop today. Spent 4 hours testing different headphones on the WA7.
  
 Went home, saw the 10% was still there. Cannot wait for them to come!


----------



## davehg

badas said:


> ^
> 
> This was a nice review and a great read.
> 
> However you lost me at Justin Bieber.


 
  
 Yeah, I had the same reaction when I stepped into the mondo-listening room of one of SF's top audio salons while on a business trip.
  
 They had a pair of Focal Grand Utopia speakers (the ones that sell for $150k or more) powered by a stack of gear that cost more than my first house. Clearly they assumed I was a Silicon Valley unicorn CEO because they played a few cuts for me. The last one was "Love Yourself." I don't listen to top 40 radio so I didn't recognize the song, but the track sounded so well recorded and clear.
  
 "Who sang that last song? I asked. 
  
 HiFi guy turns red and muttered almost unintelligibly "Justin Bieber".  
  
 We both were quiet and looked at the floor for an uncomfortably long time.


----------



## phase0

davehg said:


> All you WA5 owners are nodding along reading this - I am really happy I took the plunge, and even despite the mishaps with my seller (he covered repair costs - yeah!).
> 
> But listening to the WA5 tonight was just so magical.
> 
> I wonder how this amp would sound on something like the Focal Utopia....


 
  
 Nodding along. I know!




  
 WRT Utopia. I like the combo. Utopia are a great headphone and their sound can vary greatly depending on the equipment behind it. Tonight I was enjoying Orbital - Wonky, especially disc 2 was jaw dropping to me. But I pulled out the LCD-XCs not the Utopias which is what I've mostly been listening on. I suppose guilty/lazy pleasure I'm actually listening on the V281 and not the WA5 tonight... changed it up. I also swapped back to GZ32 lately for rectifiers, taking a break from the Webers...


----------



## phase0

I got my custom cable for Utopia today from Peterek... That means tonight is a WA5/Utopia kind of night.
  

  
 I haven't tried to compare to stock but I'd swear it's an improvement and more body. I think the bass side of things is more satisfying now. I'll need to compare but right now just new toy excitement.


----------



## fhuang

pippen99 said:


> I put my new audio tower together yesterday and found out the WA5 works out ergonomically a lot better on a single shelf than up/down on two shelves.  In other words the umbilical is too short!.  I have contacted Woo about a longer umbilical but was wondering if anybody out there might have one or could point me toward an alternative supplier.  I need one at least 18 inches long.  Thanks


 
  
  
 some cable company does that, ie moon audio or stefan audio.  i've been thinking about getting one replacing the stock cable


----------



## pippen99

fhuang said:


> some cable company does that, ie moon audio or stefan audio.  i've been thinking about getting one replacing the stock cable


 
 Since I got no immediate response I went ahead and ordered from Woo.  They make a 24" umbilical with about 2 weeks lead time.  Thanks for chiming in.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

phase0 said:


> I got my custom cable for Utopia today from Peterek... That means tonight is a WA5/Utopia kind of night.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried to compare to stock but I'd swear it's an improvement and more body. I think the bass side of things is more satisfying now. I'll need to compare but right now just new toy excitement.


 
  
 Stunning...


----------



## fhuang

pippen99 said:


> Since I got no immediate response I went ahead and ordered from Woo.  They make a 24" umbilical with about 2 weeks lead time.  Thanks for chiming in.


 
  
 no problem.  you mind to share some pictures when the cable comes?  also your music tower and how you place them?  curious to see.  thanks


----------



## reeltime

I'm unloading a pair of PSVane CV-181 TII's on eBay with low hours (and a bunch of other cool stuff in a winter cleanup).  Reasonably priced.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/302154146375?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## SP Wild

davehg said:


> Yeah, I had the same reaction when I stepped into the mondo-listening room of one of SF's top audio salons while on a business trip.
> 
> They had a pair of Focal Grand Utopia speakers (the ones that sell for $150k or more) powered by a stack of gear that cost more than my first house. Clearly they assumed I was a Silicon Valley unicorn CEO because they played a few cuts for me. The last one was "Love Yourself." I don't listen to top 40 radio so I didn't recognize the song, but the track sounded so well recorded and clear.
> 
> ...




Was going through today's top artists on google play a few weeks ago... Just for research... You know. 

Came to a sudden realusation that this smooth and soothing voice I hear on the car radio was.... JUSTIN BIEBER... gasp! 

Through my headphone gear... He bought the teenage girl out if me. WAIT! I am not gay.... I Think. 

Anyway. That's just between you and me... OK? 

Not a word to anyone. 






Ever.


----------



## abvolt

hifiguy528 said:


> Stunning...


 
  
 Very cool just got the Elear awesome cans..


----------



## isquirrel

I don’t know if any of you are into Dylon, I am not really but he has just won the Nobel prize for Literature, Patti Smith sang one of his most celebrated songs. It certainly bought more than a few tears to my eyes. Even if you are not into either its worth watching and listening to the lyrics.
  
Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin’
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin’
I saw a white ladder all covered with water
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children
And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall
  
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/a-transcendent-patti-smith-accepts-bob-dylans-nobel-prize
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVXQaOhpfJU


----------



## isquirrel

Decided to give Joe's (Abyss) work with KR Tubes a go. Chances are high that they will be outstanding if Joe has anything to do them. The following are on their way. This is a link to them.
  
 https://www.thecableco.com/Product/300B-Balloon-HP "designed for serious Headphone listening" Not sure about the 2A3's of the one sI have tried they tend to be a bit too clinical for my tastes.
  
 300B Balloon HP
 2A3 HP
 274B HP


----------



## isquirrel

Be interesting to see how they go compared to these. Finally got my hands on a decent pair. Heavenly is the only way to describe the midrange. Thank you to those members on this forum that have tried to help me find matching 274B's unfortunately nothing so far but singles and that's a dubious move.
  
 The Takatsuki 274B really pairs vey well with the WE's. Anyone in the Brisbane area is welcome for a listen at the beginning of Jan when we are having a mini meet.


----------



## isquirrel

A noobie question, what direction does the flow run in using the 234 fuse holder?


----------



## artemart

isquirrel said:


> A noobie question, what direction does the flow run in using the 234 fuse holder?


 
 I do not think that it matters. Fuse is just a wire and it brakes when it got too much power going though them.


----------



## phase0

isquirrel said:


> Decided to give Joe's (Abyss) work with KR Tubes a go. Chances are high that they will be outstanding if Joe has anything to do them. The following are on their way. This is a link to them.
> 
> https://www.thecableco.com/Product/300B-Balloon-HP "designed for serious Headphone listening" Not sure about the 2A3's of the one sI have tried they tend to be a bit too clinical for my tastes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions! Really loving my WA5 tonight w/ Utopia... just mind blowing. Theoretically I could eek out a little more performance with some other tubes. Have to say I'm pretty happy now tho.


----------



## davehg

isquirrel said:


> I don’t know if any of you are into Dylon, I am not really but he has just won the Nobel prize for Literature, Patti Smith sang one of his most celebrated songs. It certainly bought more than a few tears to my eyes. Even if you are not into either its worth watching and listening to the lyrics.
> 
> [COLOR=121212]Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


 

Dylan absolutely deserves this. To celebrate, I listened to Dylan Covered, a great playlist on Tidal of various bands doing Dylan tunes. From Springsteen to The Band to Adele to Odetta, bunch of great covers.


----------



## musicman59

isquirrel said:


> A noobie question, what direction does the flow run in using the 234 fuse holder?


 
 I am not 100% sure but I think the fuse should be tun 180 degrees based on this diagram.


----------



## Arcamera

Just a Kudos! for the WA22 here. Loving what I'm hearing...(Using the Woo recommended tube upgrades-- Sophia/RCA/Tung Sol).


----------



## pippen99

Quote: 





fhuang said:


> no problem.  you mind to share some pictures when the cable comes?  also your music tower and how you place them?  curious to see.  thanks


 
 First apologies for the crappy pictures.  The new cable is only 6" longer but I needed just that 6" extra.  Construction and materials are identical to stock.  The tower is a Whalen 5 shelf tower.  It was the only one I found with enough clearance on the second shelf to accommodate the height of the transformers and tubes.  The load capacity for the shelves are just 50 lbs so the transformer(40 lbs) went on the bottom shelf.  The amp section(34 lbs) is on the second shelf.  The Directstream DAC and Auralic Aries Mini streamer on the third shelf splitting the amps.  Cavalli Liquid Gold is on the fourth shelf.  The hangers for the headphones (LCD-X and ETHER) did not work with the glass shelves so they sit on a towel on the top shelf for the time being.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Showing some LOVE for my classic Denon D7000 headphones with WA7 Fireflies.


----------



## Arcamera

Nice! I've always been a fan of the D7000.


----------



## jerick70

The WA7 is an excellent all-in-one.  I pair it with TH-900s at work an love it.  I need to find a pair of D7000s to try with it.  I always have people ask what the WA7 is.  When I tell them they are mesmerized.  Excellent conversation starter.


----------



## davehg

A question for the WA5 owners - have you hooked up a high impedance phone (like the HD650) to the 4pin Neutrik headphone connector? If so, how did it sound? Was it overloaded?
  
 Have you run a pair of low impedance phones via the same output (like the LCD3)?
  
 My WA5 has a 4pin Neutrik headphone connector, but I've read that this was really intended for full power delivery to hard to drive headphones like the AKG1000. It is not a true balanced output and the power delivery via this connector is far greater than the 1/4 inch headphone connector.
  
 My WA22 also has a 4 pin Neutrik output, and it is fully balanced (when used with a balanced source) - but the power delivery via the Neutrik connector is not increased.
  
 I have a set of Cardas cables for the HD650 on the way, with a 4 pin XLR connector, and was curious if I could run them off the 4 pin XLR output on the WA5, even though they are high impedance phones.


----------



## jerick70

davehg said:


> A question for the WA5 owners - have you hooked up a high impedance phone (like the HD650) to the 4pin Neutrik headphone connector? If so, how did it sound? Was it overloaded?
> 
> Have you run a pair of low impedance phones via the same output (like the LCD3)?
> 
> ...


 
  
 It sounds like you have a WA5 v2.  The 4 pin Neutrik connector does not deliver more power on the WA5 v2, it is the same as the 6.3 mm connector.  The WA5 v1 did have a second 6.3 mm connector that did work this way. Woo has designed the WA5 v2 to be very versatile so it will work with many headphones.  There are three knobs and switches on the front of the WA5 to adjust the amp for various headphones, Low and High impedance.  You can adjust the power output, gain, and impedance with the three knobs and switches.  Below is a graphic that Woo has released that will give you the proper settings for various headphones.  FYI.... I only own low impedance headphones so I don't know how high impedance headphones fair with the WA5.  I've heard they are superb though.


----------



## davehg

It's a v1. No separate toggles for power or impedance. Just a selector switch for speaker, hi, low, and the Akg setting. And two headphone outputs, the neutrik and 1/4 inch.

The table above suggests the HD650 may not like a high power setting, maybe it is noisier?


----------



## abvolt

hifiguy528 said:


> Showing some LOVE for my classic Denon D7000 headphones with WA7 Fireflies.


 
  
 Very nice really enjoyed my wa7/tp..


----------



## Smileyko

I also landed about 6 months ago the WA7. Just 2 months ago the Grado GS 2000e came in. These two are meant for each other. The HD 800S? Not so much. Of all the gear I bought this year the Mojo and the WA7 are the best.


----------



## abvolt

smileyko said:


> I also landed about 6 months ago the WA7. Just 2 months ago the Grado GS 2000e came in. These two are meant for each other. The HD 800S? Not so much. Of all the gear I bought this year the Mojo and the WA7 are the best.


 
 I'd agree that mojo is an excellent dac I've listened to it  many time I've also heard the 800s
  hp's oh yeah I'll bet it's a nice combo with the wa7..enjoy


----------



## ghhf

isquirrel said:


> A noobie question, what direction does the flow run in using the 234 fuse holder?


 
  
 I have the same fuse installed, it makes a difference on my WA6 SE and WA22, IMHO. And I expected it will also work on my WA5.


----------



## ghhf

davehg said:


> A question for the WA5 owners - have you hooked up a high impedance phone (like the HD650) to the 4pin Neutrik headphone connector? If so, how did it sound? Was it overloaded?
> 
> Have you run a pair of low impedance phones via the same output (like the LCD3)?
> 
> ...


 
  
 For WA22, I have loaded it with a set of KK headphone, the XLR outputs (both 3pins and 4pins) give much better result than the 6.3  though all outputs deliver same level of power.
  
 I am about to experiment the WA5, and it seems that all outputs are live at same level of power too.


----------



## ghhf

Just a reminder to all you guys an interesting find on eBay, WA5 in 300B Mono-block pairs. I sincerely hope the AMPs to be enjoyed by someone who will appreciate them! Help with a push, check ]this offer at ebay if interested.


----------



## abvolt

very nice too much $$ for a used wa5..


----------



## Khragon

Also, too bad, no 3-pin XLR front output for headphones use.


----------



## davehg

abvolt said:


> very nice too much $$ for a used wa5..




Never seen a speaker only WA5. I don't think this is too much; I paid the same for a WA5, albeit it also had speaker and headphone outputs


----------



## ghhf

khragon said:


> Also, too bad, no 3-pin XLR front output for headphones use.


 

 Obviously need some work (DIY or send back to Woo) for headphone outputs.


----------



## ghhf

davehg said:


> Never seen a speaker only WA5. I don't think this is too much; I paid the same for a WA5, albeit it also had speaker and headphone outputs


 

 The price seems reasonable (there is option for best offer), considering its uniqueness and condition.


----------



## joseph69

Nice amps for a speaker system.
 Would be nicer if there were XLR HP outputs.


----------



## fhuang

pippen99 said:


> First apologies for the crappy pictures.  The new cable is only 6" longer but I needed just that 6" extra.  Construction and materials are identical to stock.  The tower is a Whalen 5 shelf tower.  It was the only one I found with enough clearance on the second shelf to accommodate the height of the transformers and tubes.  The load capacity for the shelves are just 50 lbs so the transformer(40 lbs) went on the bottom shelf.  The amp section(34 lbs) is on the second shelf.  The Directstream DAC and Auralic Aries Mini streamer on the third shelf splitting the amps.  Cavalli Liquid Gold is on the fourth shelf.  The hangers for the headphones (LCD-X and ETHER) did not work with the glass shelves so they sit on a towel on the top shelf for the time being.





Wish i had the space to do that. And actually not surprising you are having positive results because that would make it/them with less interference.


----------



## fhuang

isquirrel said:


> A noobie question, what direction does the flow run in using the 234 fuse holder?




If you put it in the wrong direction, you should be able to hear it to sound strange, or wrong. Try it yourself


----------



## fhuang

isquirrel said:


> Decided to give Joe's (Abyss) work with KR Tubes a go. Chances are high that they will be outstanding if Joe has anything to do them. The following are on their way. This is a link to them.
> 
> https://www.thecableco.com/Product/300B-Balloon-HP "designed for serious Headphone listening" Not sure about the 2A3's of the one sI have tried they tend to be a bit too clinical for my tastes.
> 
> ...





Did you get the kr 300b and/or the 274b? How was them?


----------



## GuyUnder

To Woo owners -- is going for a 300B and for headphone use worth it?


----------



## phase0

guyunder said:


> To Woo owners -- is going for a 300B and for headphone use worth it?


 
  
 I think you can get good sound for cheaper if you go the solid state route. If you're interested in tubes, there's (1) the amps look cool (2) with tubes you have a lot of flexibility to alter/customize the sound via tube rolling (3) it's freaking expensive LOL (4) I really like my WA5 w/ 300B. It's still my favorite amp. I've heard the WA22 and I would pick the WA5 in a heartbeat over that. When I got mine I wanted tubes, I've never had anything like it before. It's been a lot of fun.


----------



## davehg

guyunder said:


> To Woo owners -- is going for a 300B and for headphone use worth it?




For me, the performance gap between the WA22 and WA5 was worth the extra $$. The WA22 was slightly better than the WA6SE except on balanced sources where it was noticeably better. The WA5 was all around better, eliciting the first "wow" I've had with a headphone system compared to a speaker setup.


----------



## jerick70

guyunder said:


> To Woo owners -- is going for a 300B and for headphone use worth it?


 
  
  


phase0 said:


> I think you can get good sound for cheaper if you go the solid state route. If you're interested in tubes, there's (1) the amps look cool (2) with tubes you have a lot of flexibility to alter/customize the sound via tube rolling (3) it's freaking expensive LOL (4) I really like my WA5 w/ 300B. It's still my favorite amp. I've heard the WA22 and I would pick the WA5 in a heartbeat over that. When I got mine I wanted tubes, I've never had anything like it before. It's been a lot of fun.


 
  
  


davehg said:


> For me, the performance gap between the WA22 and WA5 was worth the extra $$. The WA22 was slightly better than the WA6SE except on balanced sources where it was noticeably better. The WA5 was all around better, eliciting the first "wow" I've had with a headphone system compared to a speaker setup.


 
  
 I agree with what @phase0 and @davehg said about the WA5.  It is an incredible amp, and is well worth the asking price.  It's my endgame amp right now.
  
 On the solid state side of things.  I've tried a lot of SS amps and haven't found one that bests the WA5.  Everyone has different ears and tastes so YMMV.
  
 The down side to the WA5 is the total cost of ownership.  A pair of WE 300b tubes can cost more than you paid for the amp.....


----------



## ghhf

guyunder said:


> To Woo owners -- is going for a 300B and for headphone use worth it?


 
  
 "Worth it" is some kind of personal justification, I will tell mine very soon how the WA5 (more than double the price of a WA22) is doing, a 300B amp drive both speaker and headphone definitely delivers maximized value.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

ghhf said:


> Just a reminder to all you guys an interesting find on eBay, WA5 in 300B Mono-block pairs. I sincerely hope the AMPs to be enjoyed by someone who will appreciate them! Help with a push, check ]this offer at ebay if interested.


 
  
 It would be difficult to buy a better 300B mono-block speakers amp at this price. My Cary Audio 805 AE cost me nearly $7K used. Bought it before I joined Woo Audio.


----------



## Porteroso

Certainly a nice item, and somewhat unique. If I had the money, I'd spring for it.


----------



## leftside

@HiFiGuy528 can these be modified for headphone use?


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> @HiFiGuy528
> can these be modified for headphone use?




A speaker tap would work. It would sound great as well. I've heard a speaker tap attached to a WA5 and the tap sounded better than the HP output. The only concern would be volume control. With a tap you would have to be very careful not to blow up your HP.


----------



## abvolt

hifiguy528 said:


> It would be difficult to buy a better 300B mono-block speakers amp at this price. My Cary Audio 805 AE cost me nearly $7K used. Bought it before I joined Woo Audio.


 
 What kind of speakers could these drive? do you mean desktop speakers..enjoy


----------



## davehg

abvolt said:


> What kind of speakers could these drive? do you mean desktop speakers..enjoy




No, regular speakers.

Something super efficient. These WA5s put out about 8wpc, and SET amps like high impedances, like 8 ohm and higher, and 89db sensitivity or higher. Tannoy, Triangle, Klipsch, PSB models are good mainstream choices. I am running a pair of ProAc Super Tablettes, and while 2x the power would be ideal, they sound fantastic on the WA5.


----------



## phase0

abvolt said:


> What kind of speakers could these drive? do you mean desktop speakers..enjoy


 
  
 I have a pair of GoldenEar Triton 3 tower speakers. The sound great with the WA5. They also have their own power for the integrated subs. I have to haul the WA5 and DAC into that room so it's not a regular thing I do but the system sounds better with the WA5 than the Denon receiver (as it should).


----------



## leftside

badas said:


> A speaker tap would work. It would sound great as well. I've heard a speaker tap attached to a WA5 and the tap sounded better than the HP output. The only concern would be volume control. With a tap you would have to be very careful not to blow up your HP.


 
 How would the connections work - say with a pair of headphones with balanced connectors? Is there some sort of speaker connector/tap to XLR adapter? These amps are only 8 watts, so could certainly work for headphones - though yes you'd have to be a little careful.


----------



## abvolt

davehg said:


> No, regular speakers.
> 
> Something super efficient. These WA5s put out about 8wpc, and SET amps like high impedances, like 8 ohm and higher, and 89db sensitivity or higher. Tannoy, Triangle, Klipsch, PSB models are good mainstream choices. I am running a pair of ProAc Super Tablettes, and while 2x the power would be ideal, they sound fantastic on the WA5.


 
 awesome had no idea that amp would drive speakers almost got the wa5 before my wa22, what stopped me is that tube costs can get  spendy for a 300b amps plus would my old ears really hear the differences  ..enjoy


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> How would the connections work - say with a pair of headphones with balanced connectors? Is there some sort of speaker connector/tap to XLR adapter? These amps are only 8 watts, so could certainly work for headphones - though yes you'd have to be a little careful.




Yes XLR. That's the connection I have used before. Attach wire to speaker output and then attach wire to speaker tap. HiFiMan make one.


----------



## Arcamera

Just wondering peoples' thoughts on the 6080 vs. 7236. So far I find the 6080 to be a little smoother, but more restrained/polite-- not as dynamic or detailed as the 7236. Generally, I prefer a more mellow sound like the 6080, but not always. (I'm currently comparing the RCA 6080 against the Tung Sol 7236 in my still fairly new WA22).


----------



## Badas

arcamera said:


> Just wondering peoples' thoughts on the 6080 vs. 7236. So far I find the 6080 to be a little smoother, but more restrained/polite-- not as dynamic or detailed as the 7236. Generally, I prefer a more mellow sound like the 6080, but not always. (I'm currently comparing the RCA 6080 against the Tung Sol 7236 in my still fairly new WA22).




My thoughts are basically identical. I thought the 7236 was overrated.


----------



## jermaink

Any thoughts on the 5998 in comparison? It's often talked about as 'in-between' those 2.


----------



## leftside

5998's are great. Also consider these:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/806043/for-6bl7-tube-users


----------



## abvolt

the 5998's are my favorites of the two..


----------



## jermaink

As in, you prefer the 5998's over the 6BL7's?
  
 Also is it just me or do WA22 owners seem to notice more differences from their power & driver tubes compared to the rectifier tube?


----------



## Arcamera

Can anyone point me in the direction of where to get some 5998's? (I'm a tube rolling newbie). Thanks.


----------



## ghhf

jermaink said:


> As in, you prefer the 5998's over the 6BL7's?
> 
> Also is it just me or do WA22 owners seem to notice more differences from their power & driver tubes compared to the rectifier tube?




I have not tried the 6BL7，had run 6080，6SA7G，5998，421A and 7236 power tubes，combo with some various signal and rectifier tubes. I would give a ratio in 5:3:2 for the effect between power:rectifier:signal on WA22，but YMMV.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> My thoughts are basically identical. I thought the 7236 was overrated.


 

 Honestly, I find the Sylvania 7236 to be a very underated all around performer in my WA3. Not my favorite power tube, but a great price/performer.


----------



## Krutsch

jermaink said:


> Any thoughts on the 5998 in comparison? It's often talked about as 'in-between' those 2.


 

 I'm using a WA3, but my ranking on power tubes:
  
  1) Western Electric 421A "Bottom D-getter"
  
 2) GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base"
  
 3) Tung-Sol 6520 (a premium spec'd 5998, If I recall correctly; but it sounds really nice)
  
 4) Tung Sol 5998
  
 5) Tung Sol or Sylvania 7236 (haven't really done a lengthy listening comparison, but they are both good tubes - fast sound)


----------



## ghhf

ghhf said:


> Just a reminder to all you guys an interesting find on eBay, WA5 in 300B Mono-block pairs. I sincerely hope the AMPs to be enjoyed by someone who will appreciate them! Help with a push, check ]this offer at ebay if interested.


 
  
 Just noted that the AMPS were sold, wonder if any you guy here got the deal


----------



## LajostheHun

ouch!


http://www.stereophile.com/content/woo-audio-wa5-integrated-amplifierheadphone-amplifier-measurements#vTTAZ8XMkmU8WJec.97


----------



## leftside

Ouch. But does anyone actually use these for driving speakers? That review confirms my suspicion that a dedicated "proper" amp would be much better. The gradings for headphone use were ok though.


----------



## Seamaster

lajosthehun said:


> ouch!
> 
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/woo-audio-wa5-integrated-amplifierheadphone-amplifier-measurements#vTTAZ8XMkmU8WJec.97


 
 The truth......I sold my WA22 6 years ago.


----------



## phase0

leftside said:


> Ouch. But does anyone actually use these for driving speakers? That review confirms my suspicion that a dedicated "proper" amp would be much better. The gradings for headphone use were ok though.


 
  
 Outside of the speaker measurements it seems like it did pretty well and he said in the light of the SET design it did quite well. Past the measurements if you read the review I took it as glowing praise. I still don't have any plans to sell mine. Sounds great to me and on the odd occasion I hook it up to my speakers I think it does a great job. At least I enjoy what I hear.
  
 Quote [Stereophile]: 





> Also . . . I've just checked J. Gordon Holt's Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary," and he doesn't define _transcendent_; the Woo makes a strong case for its addition: _transcendent_ is the word that best describes the WA5's succinct, intimate, nonmechanical handling of music, as an amplifier for loudspeakers or headphones.
> ...
> The Woo couldn't match the vivid, hypertextured midrange of either of those amps, but in turn, neither of them could match the Woo's almost incomparable liquidity.


 
  
 I wonder if what he's describing as liquidity is what I was kind of thinking as smooth or something like that.


----------



## davehg

I drive a pair of ProAc's with my WA5 - sounds great. 
  
 Not surprised at the measurements. SET and triode tube amps almost always measure poorly. One of my favorite speaker amps, the Air Tight ATM3, was once described by Sphile as measuring "broken" but the reviewer loved it, as did I.


----------



## LajostheHun

If it was a Fiio amp that sells for $100 I would write those measurements off too. For almost 6 grand and from an audio engineering POV those figures are inexcusable.So is the fact that Atkinson neglected to truly measure or provide figures for actual HP output, since Woo failed to meet the speaker output specs miserably, with pitiful performance of cross talk IM, and THD, as well, this would have been essential since it is marketed as a HP amp first. I guess he didn't wanna further contradict the subjective review any further, or risk any advertiser revenue as well.
Can't be too surprised! :rolleyes:


----------



## ghhf

lajosthehun said:


> ouch!
> 
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/woo-audio-wa5-integrated-amplifierheadphone-amplifier-measurements#vTTAZ8XMkmU8WJec.97




Well, I prefer to trust my own human ears rather than instruments measurements, that makes more sense as *I* listen to the *music* not doing instruments sampling 
 
And after all, tube upgrade/ rolling，and other fine tuning，matching to best fit personal taste is the key for anything impressive.


----------



## Porteroso

lajosthehun said:


> If it was a Fiio amp that sells for $100 I would write those measurements off too. For almost 6 grand and from an audio engineering POV those figures are inexcusable.So is the fact that Atkinson neglected to truly measure or provide figures for actual HP output, since Woo failed to meet the speaker output specs miserably, with pitiful performance of cross talk IM, and THD, as well, this would have been essential since it is marketed as a HP amp first. I guess he didn't wanna further contradict the subjective review any further, or risk any advertiser revenue as well.
> Can't be too surprised!


 
 The Woo's performance with headphones has been talked about positively by all who have heard it. Some will make the case that it is overpriced, others think it's fair. Whether or not the Woo is a good headphone amp isn't really up for discussion, only its price point is. 
  
 The reviewer was measuring the speaker outputs, which is something that I've never seen before. That is useful. You have some reviews that say it does extremely well with speakers, but this lets you know that you'd better be using some incredibly efficient speakers, and not need much volume. That is the basis for the review, to review that part of the amp that's mostly glossed over in other reviews.
  
 I think it's valid to try to read between the lines and figure out why the reviewer did not measure the hp output, but I don't think it's valid to write off the WA5 completely just because the reviewer didn't. It seems to me that if I read through your post history (I won't), I'd find that you either don't like Woo, or  you don't like tubes. Negative Nancy's are dime a dozen, glad that they don't stick their heads in here often.


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## LajostheHun

porteroso said:


> The Woo's performance with headphones has been talked about positively by all who have heard it. Some will make the case that it is overpriced, others think it's fair. Whether or not the Woo is a good headphone amp isn't really up for discussion, only its price point is.
> 
> The reviewer was measuring the speaker outputs, which is something that I've never seen before. That is useful. You have some reviews that say it does extremely well with speakers, but this lets you know that you'd better be using some incredibly efficient speakers, and not need much volume. That is the basis for the review, to review that part of the amp that's mostly glossed over in other reviews.
> 
> I think it's valid to try to read between the lines and figure out why the reviewer did not measure the hp output, but I don't think it's valid to write off the WA5 completely just because the reviewer didn't. It seems to me that if I read through your post history (I won't), I'd find that you either don't like Woo, or  you don't like tubes. Negative Nancy's are dime a dozen, glad that they don't stick their heads in here often.




You assume too much aren't you and you know what they say about that or ad hominem attacks? Go ahead read through my posts you're not gonna find either of your 'suspicions" However I do loathe fanboys [ fanboyus wankerus] But just to be clear I'm much more annoyed by Stereophile here than Woo, as I'm simply disappointed with these figures. Atkinson does say that the HP out put has similar problems when it is concerned with distortion figures, he just didn't post them nor did the true power figures which is a disservice to readers and prospective buyers alike. Also there is no dedicated WA5 thread[I did a search] hence why I posted here, if it's not welcome that's OK since the info however it is not complete is more important than fanboy reactions like yours.


----------



## davehg

If you are looking for strong measurements with SET amps, you need to look elsewhere. I've yet to read an article where SET amps, especially 300b amps, do well in measurements. Tubes amps can measure well (look at the excellent VTL Signature series and certain Audio Research amps). But 300b and 845 and 2A4 and similar radio based tube amps almost uniformly perform horribly on the test bench. 

If you think an amp is only as good as its measured specs, no 300b amp will please you, as they are inherently compromised. Stereophile admits as much in their review of the Jadis 300b amp. Check out their commentary on measurements vs. listening results, after the Jadis measured horribly but was heard to sound wonderful.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/jadis-se300b-monoblock-amplifier-measurements-ivsi-listening#7VUxgXvVasm2uvj5.97


----------



## phase0

I thought in general tube amps had more distortion and there's some allowance there for dealing with tubes. When I started looking at Woo Amps I was in a 'must have tubes' mindset so not much would deter me. If I saw a post about terrible measurements it might throw me off. I'm not an expert by any means. Fortunately I do think the WA5 sounds wonderful.
  
 I tried to search for someone who can explain it a bit...
  
http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm


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## davehg

phase0 said:


> I thought in general tube amps had more distortion and there's some allowance there for dealing with tubes. When I started looking at Woo Amps I was in a 'must have tubes' mindset so not much would deter me. If I saw a post about terrible measurements it might throw me off. I'm not an expert by any means. Fortunately I do think the WA5 sounds wonderful.
> 
> I tried to search for someone who can explain it a bit...
> 
> http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm


 
  
 For DACs and preamps, measurements are important, but nothing beats actual listening. For solid state and hybrid amps, the measurements would be important to me at some level. For tube amps, it's all about the listening.


----------



## Stereolab42

Lol at people complaining about measurements on a tube amp. Talk about completely missing the point. If you want to listen to measurements, go buy the 100$ O2 amp and be happy... somewhere else. Oh, and happy new year.


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## leftside

A tube amp will measure horribly for distortion, but as this guy writes, it is this natural distortion that give tubes amps their natural flavor:
 http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm
  
 But, there are very valid reasons why the measurements of the WA5 are so concerning. Unless I've read this incorrectly, these measurements have nothing to do with distortion or tubes?
  
 "The output impedance from the headphone jack was 38 ohms at 1kHz at High Impedance, 16 ohms at Low Impedance—both a little on the high side. The output impedance from the speaker terminals was also high, at 3.2 ohms across the audioband, which gave rise to variations of ±1.9dB in the frequency response"
  
 "the amplifier's noise floor, measured at the speaker terminals, was contaminated with low-level power-supply–related hum components (fig.5). The unweighted, wideband signal/noise ratio, ref. 2.83V into 8 ohms and taken with the inputs shorted to ground but the volume control set to its maximum, was therefore disappointing, at 72dB in the left channel and 73.6dB in the right
  
 This one looks really bad:
 "Claimed to deliver 10Wpc into 8 ohms (10dBW) at 3% distortion, ... actually 3% THD+noise delivered just 3W (4.8dBW). Even at 10% THD+N, the power is only 8.5Wpc (9.3dBW). Note also the rapid rise in THD as the power increases above a couple of hundred milliwatts—this amplifier's output stage has what could be kindly referred to as a "bent" transfer function"
  
 If I was a WA5 owner expecting to drive speakers as well as headphones then I'd be a little pissed off. As a WA5LE owner I'd be less concerned, but would still be questioning Woo about why the advertised specs don't meet the tested specs. 
 "Its low power output and high distortion will not be too much of an issue with headphones but would seem to rule the WA5 out of contention for driving loudspeakers"


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## davehg

And yet the reviewer loved the sound of the WA5 driving three separate loudspeakers, including the LS3/5A clone, which can be more challenging than the super sensitive and higher impedance load of the Zu or Devore speakers, which are pretty stable at 8 ohm and above.
  
 I would love to hear from Woo whether they agree with SPhile's testing methodology. They previously reviewed another 300b amp and the designer took issue with their approach -when they used the grounding for the test load recommended by the designer, the results were close to published specs.


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## HiFiGuy528

stereolab42 said:


> Lol at people complaining about measurements on a tube amp. Talk about completely missing the point. If you want to listen to measurements, go buy the 100$ O2 amp and be happy... somewhere else. Oh, and happy new year.


 
  
 + 1 
  
 It's easy to make an amp that makes sound and measures well, not so easy to make an amp that reproduces music.


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## Porteroso

lajosthehun said:


> You assume too much aren't you and you know what they say about that or ad hominem attacks? Go ahead read through my posts you're not gonna find either of your 'suspicions" However I do loathe fanboys [ fanboyus wankerus] But just to be clear I'm much more annoyed by Stereophile here than Woo, as I'm simply disappointed with these figures. Atkinson does say that the HP out put has similar problems when it is concerned with distortion figures, he just didn't post them nor did the true power figures which is a disservice to readers and prospective buyers alike. Also there is no dedicated WA5 thread_ hence why I posted here, if it's not welcome that's OK since the info however it is not complete is more important than fanboy reactions like yours._


 
 This thread isn't really for throwing names around. I take issue with you writing off the WA5's headphone output without having heard it for yourself, because a reviewer did not test it. I'm glad to have been updated on your opinions of fanboys, really. 
  
 The link is very welcome, your interpretation of it is just not valid. But thanks for posting.


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## CAAAAARLO

I've been wavering between a some solid state amps (Cavalli LC 2.0, Schiit Jotunheim, Violectric HPA V200) because of their "warmth" but I'm also considering the Woo Audio side of things mainly the WA2 and WA6SE. I saw a really old comparison thread, is there anyone in this thread that has compared them? I'm driving Ether C Flows, LCD-2F, and on occasion HE-560. Hoping to add a HD800 fairly soon as well. Talk me into Woo Audio amp?


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## davehg

caaaaarlo said:


> I've been wavering between a some solid state amps (Cavalli LC 2.0, Schiit Jotunheim, Violectric HPA V200) because of their "warmth" but I'm also considering the Woo Audio side of things mainly the WA2 and WA6SE. I saw a really old comparison thread, is there anyone in this thread that has compared them? I'm driving Ether C Flows, LCD-2F, and on occasion HE-560. Hoping to add a HD800 fairly soon as well. Talk me into Woo Audio amp?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd talk you into a WA22 or a WA5, but not a 6SE or 2. While I liked my 6SE, it didn't have the punch that the WA22 and WA5 have. Yes, they are more expensive but buying used cushions the blow.
  
 If I did the Violectric, I'd save my money for a V281. You've got some nice headphones, time to feed them properly.


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## CAAAAARLO

davehg said:


> I'd talk you into a WA22 or a WA5, but not a 6SE or 2. While I liked my 6SE, it didn't have the punch that the WA22 and WA5 have. Yes, they are more expensive but buying used cushions the blow.
> 
> If I did the Violectric, I'd save my money for a V281. You've got some nice headphones, time to feed them properly.


 
 Don't do me like that. I was trying to resist the WA22—and the black is so beautiful. Let me ask you this: is it "if you give a mouse a cookie" with Woo amps? If I get the WA6SE, will I end up going up the food-chain to the WA5?

 I've read some of those WA2/WA22 reviews. It's super enticing but are the gains commensurate with the cost? Ahh, I hope there are some WA22's for sale!


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## Seamaster

caaaaarlo said:


> I've been wavering between a some solid state amps (Cavalli LC 2.0, Schiit Jotunheim, Violectric HPA V200) because of their "warmth" but I'm also considering the Woo Audio side of things mainly the WA2 and WA6SE. I saw a really old comparison thread, is there anyone in this thread that has compared them? I'm driving Ether C Flows, LCD-2F, and on occasion HE-560. Hoping to add a HD800 fairly soon as well. Talk me into Woo Audio amp?


 

 I like Cavalli amps better, they are somehow more engaging, hard to explain.


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## ghhf

caaaaarlo said:


> Don't do me like that. I was trying to resist the WA22—and the black is so beautiful. Let me ask you this: is it "if you give a mouse a cookie" with Woo amps? If I get the WA6SE, will I end up going up the food-chain to the WA5?
> 
> I've read some of those WA2/WA22 reviews. It's super enticing but are the gains commensurate with the cost? Ahh, I hope there are some WA22's for sale!


 

 Yes, many life examples right here, and I am about to repeat the same story. If you decide to go with a Woo product, pick a WA22 (WA22 SE), then the WA5 or WA234 later, that is the way to go and welcome to the party ...... LOL
  
 Also suggest to check the wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons chart for further information.


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## Seamaster

ghhf said:


> Yes, many life examples right here, and I am about to repeat the same story. If you decide to go with a Woo product, pick a WA22 (WA22 SE) then the WA5 or WA234 later, that is the way to go, welcome to the party ...... LOL


 

 If you like romantic and slow sounding amp WA22 is all yours.


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## davehg

seamaster said:


> If you like romantic and slow sounding amp WA22 is all yours.




That is what I thought about the 6SE. The WA22 was not nearly as romantic or slow but it needs a balanced source to shine. Running balanced HP cables also helps.


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## Seamaster

davehg said:


> That is what I thought about the 6SE. The WA22 was not nearly as romantic or slow but it needs a balanced source to shine. Running balanced HP cables also helps.


 

 I had Meridian G08.1 at the time used balanced output, and I was using LCD2 with ALO reference 8 balanced cable (was a prototype at the time) and H650 balanced, Grado RS-1 SE, T1 G1 SE, and tested with HD800 balanced. My WA22 was special ordered with no RCAs but all balanced inputs with preamp function. WA22 had transparency issue also, I had to replace the caps on mine. WA22 with all the tubes will cost you quickly over $3000 or more. You can get better amps else where for that kind of money. I had my WA22 maxed out on tubes, GEC 6AS7G, Mullard CV181, Brimar CV1988, TS 6F8G round plates, and GEC U52, that did not help too much to a point I wanted to keep mine.
  

  
 After all that work, one day I heard the Cavalli liquid fire, I felt stupid to spend a lots of money on WA22. I could get a much better amp form get go, the LF only had JJ tube at the time and in pre-production stage.


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## davehg

Sea master, I agree that $3k is silly to put into a WA22 when a used WA5 with factory upgraded caps and parts can be had at that price. My WA22 has upgraded caps, which may explain my impressions. 

BTW, I find the LCD2 to be darker and less dynamic than the LCDX and LCD3, perhaps that may explain any impressions. 

I found the HD650 to be an ideal match with the WA22; the LCD3 not so much but it loves the WA5


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## leftside

I find the LCD3 to be an ideal match with the WA22 with the correct power tubes (Tung Sol 5998, 6BL7, etc).
  
 For $3K you get a completely maxed out new WA22. How much do you need to spend on a completely maxed out new WA5? Those top of the line 300B tubes are not cheap.


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## ghhf

seamaster said:


> If you like romantic and slow sounding amp WA22 is all yours.





The WA22 is generally in a more "richness" sonic vs my WA6 SE though I have not made any serious comparsion with other SS AMPs.

I found my WA22 can behave in various characters via tube rolling. A typical configuation with the GEC 6SA7G/ TSRP/ GEC 5U4G giving a gently smooth & romantic soft presents, while WE 421A/ TS 5998 with SYMB 6SN7 and TS VT244/ USF 596 on the other hand，can be in a sense of aggressive，high-contrast，dynamic and speedy. 

I may not necessarily love all the possible effect from these many vary tube combinations , but I enjoyed that rolling game on WA22， that is the beauty of WA22 and let it be a keeper IMHO.


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## Porteroso

Just for consideration, those who have owned the WA6 and WA6SE mostly say that the WA6 has more potential, due to being about to use better tubes. For me, the WA6 is an incredible amp with a copper cap for rectification, and Tung Sol 6F8G as power/driver tubes. I can only speculate on how it compares to the WA22, so I won't comment. But I would not personally consider the WA6SE, only the WA6.
  
 edit: Also, I have my schiit Modi Multibit. Previously had a SMSL M8. I think at this price point, I cannot do better. The thing sounds incredible. Everything is simply better. There is better tonal accuracy, and even pitch accuracy. I notice things out of tune in symphonies I've listened to a hundred times that I never have before.
  
 I know this isn't a thread for dacs, but just wanted to report that with the WA6, everything is better, smoother, in all ranges, more dynamic. Seems to be an incredible pair with the WA6.


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## TontNZ

caaaaarlo said:


> I've been wavering between a some solid state amps (Cavalli LC 2.0, Schiit Jotunheim, Violectric HPA V200) because of their "warmth" but I'm also considering the Woo Audio side of things mainly the WA2 and WA6SE. I saw a really old comparison thread, is there anyone in this thread that has compared them? I'm driving Ether C Flows, LCD-2F, and on occasion HE-560. Hoping to add a HD800 fairly soon as well. Talk me into Woo Audio amp?


 
  
 I started out with the intention of just buying a basic WA7 Fireflies.  I ended up emailing Woo Audio about four times, each time changing my order. I ended up with a fully maxed WA5-LE!  Oh, and if you do go the tube/valve route - don't under estimate the price of good quality tubes.  I was warned about this aspect, but didn't fully appreciate it at the time.  I've had my WA5-LE two years now and I've spent more on tubes (and still going) than on the amp itself.  Consider yourself warned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (there really should be an emoji with two tubes sticking out of its head where its ears should be!).


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## jerick70

> I've been wavering between a some solid state amps (Cavalli LC 2.0, Schiit Jotunheim, Violectric HPA V200) because of their "warmth" but I'm also considering the Woo Audio side of things mainly the WA2 and WA6SE. I saw a really old comparison thread, is there anyone in this thread that has compared them? I'm driving Ether C Flows, LCD-2F, and on occasion HE-560. Hoping to add a HD800 fairly soon as well. Talk me into Woo Audio amp?


 
  
@CAAAAARLO I've owned or tried most of the amps that you list as candidates for your purchase.  Out of all of the SS amps I liked the Violectric V200 the best.  On that note, I was never fully satisfied with the audio quality of most of these amps.  Not that they are bad but there was something missing.  I wanted more....
  
 Of course YMMV.  This hobby is so subjective and everyone has different ears and brains.  The audio path between the ears is unpredictable.
  


tontnz said:


> I started out with the intention of just buying a basic WA7 Fireflies.  I ended up emailing Woo Audio about four times, each time changing my order. I ended up with a fully maxed WA5-LE!  Oh, and if you do go the tube/valve route - don't under estimate the price of good quality tubes.  I was warned about this aspect, but didn't fully appreciate it at the time.  I've had my WA5-LE two years now and I've spent more on tubes (and still going) than on the amp itself.  Consider yourself warned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had a similar experience as @TontNZ.  I started out with the intent to buy a lower end system and ended up with the WA5-LE.  I was never satisfied with the sound fully with all of the other gear before I purchased the WA5. If you look around you can find great deals on tubes that cuts down on that aspect of owning tubes.  You just have to be patient.


----------



## Seamaster

This hobby is a money blackhole, you will never come back


----------



## abvolt

No doubt on that very much agree..


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## Krutsch

seamaster said:


> This hobby is a money blackhole, you will never come back


 

 Yeah... I was thinking the same.
  
 Reading recent posts that are of the form: "...buy a WA5 or a WA22 if you are willing to compromise..."; which sort of implies that everything else is worthless.
  
 I don't know... makes me wonder.


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## ghhf

krutsch said:


> Yeah... I was thinking the same.
> 
> Reading recent posts that are of the form: "...buy a WA5 or a WA22 if you are willing to compromise..."; which sort of implies that everything else is worthless.
> 
> I don't know... makes me wonder.


 
  
 Let's talk about C/P - Cost Performance ratio, an interesting equation, does it make any sense to you?
  
 $WA234 = 3 x $WA5 = 3 x 3 x $WA22 = 3 x 3 x 2 x $WA6 SE/ $WA2 = 3 x 3 x 2 x 2 x $WA6/ $WA3
  
 If the universe were in such uniform & simplicity beauty, the equation implied that a WA234 delivers about 36 times "better sonic" than a WA6/WA3, just can't imagine that is the truth.
  
 I run from WA6 SE to WA22 and now the WA5, it took me about 3 years time, and every time I thought it worth the upgrade.
  
 Even though I have the WA5, my WA6 SE still sounds dynamic, WA22 still delivers gentle & euphonic sonic perhaps now in a relatively nice C/P. Afterall, that is somewhat a subjective matter, just always stay at the point feeling most comfortable ...


----------



## phase0

tontnz said:


> I started out with the intention of just buying a basic WA7 Fireflies.  I ended up emailing Woo Audio about four times, each time changing my order. I ended up with a fully maxed WA5-LE!  Oh, and if you do go the tube/valve route - don't under estimate the price of good quality tubes.  I was warned about this aspect, but didn't fully appreciate it at the time.  I've had my WA5-LE two years now and I've spent more on tubes (and still going) than on the amp itself.  Consider yourself warned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same story here, intended to get the fireflies. A few emails later I was buying a maxed out WA5 (I mean get it done the first time, buy the speaker posts too cause some day you're gonna want to try that right?). There's cheap and there's expensive tubes. I'm afraid to total up what I spent. Quite a bit more than I intended. Maybe some Taks will show up next year some time...


----------



## leftside

seamaster said:


> This hobby is a money blackhole, you will never come back


 
 Tell me about it, I just bought a DAC today. My most expensive audio purchase ever. A Lampizator Atlantic. I feel excited and sick all at the same time. I"m also concerned the rest of my equipment will now need to be upgraded... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Some of my Mac gear has actually gone up in price since I bought it though.


----------



## Seamaster

leftside said:


> My most expensive audio purchase ever. A Lampizator Atlantic.


 
 At least, it is an excellent DAC, so don't feel too bad and enjoy.


----------



## TontNZ

badas said:


> Here is a few photo's of the Glenn adapters. He makes the very best in the world.


 
  
 Sorry, I've only just just seen this post. Lovely adapters, I like some for my WA5-LE (both 6F8G and 596) do you have a link on contact details for these please?
  
 Thanks - Peter


----------



## joseph69

@2359glenn


----------



## TontNZ

joseph69 said:


> @2359glenn


 
 Thank you - much appreciated.


----------



## joseph69

tontnz said:


> Thank you - much appreciated.


 
 Your welcome.


----------



## CAAAAARLO

Thanks for everyone's responses. Against everyone's recommendations, I'm gonna start with a WA6SE because someone here had one used. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still super excited. Now need some of that HD800 goodness.


----------



## davehg

seamaster said:


> This hobby is a money blackhole, you will never come back


 
  
 So true, although:
  
 1. I once purchased a mint condition Marantz 8b amp and 7c preamp at estate sale for $200 and sold them that evening to a collector for $1800
  
 2. I bought a mint pair of Air Tight tube amps for $4500 and sold them five years later for $6000, having thoroughly enjoyed them
  
 3. Since I buy used where I can, I can usually recoup the cost, though I rarely make money. It's only when I buy new that I've taken a bath. Buying used, looking for deals, I've effectively been able to rent the gear for very little money.
  
 I've lost money on buying new DACs and selling them a few years later, CD players, and buying tubes from less than stellar vendors. Otherwise, I've done o.k. Finally, buy really good cable used, and never sell it, even if you take a break from hi fi.


----------



## leftside

Agreed. Buying good used from sites such as this (and for me Canuck Audio Mart http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/) is the way to go. I purchased a decent phono stage a couple of years ago, listed it last night and had it sold in 30 mins for the same price I bought it for. You'll always lose money though on anything "tech related" - CD players, DAC's, phones, portable players, etc. Sometimes you just "need" that latest technology though 
  
 The older McIntosh amps if in good condition sell for more than their original price - and in some cases we're talking about 50 year old technology!
  
 Yes - you'll also take a hit on tubes from less than stellar vendors - and also from very reputable vendors. The reputable vendors have marked up prices (for a reason) and you'll never be able to sell privately what you paid for those tubes.


----------



## jerick70

caaaaarlo said:


> Thanks for everyone's responses. Against everyone's recommendations, I'm gonna start with a WA6SE because someone here had one used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 May I suggest looking at the Fostex TH900?  I prefer it over the HD800.  I think it is more enjoyable to listen to than the HD800 for all music genres.  IMO...


----------



## Seamaster

jerick70 said:


> May I suggest looking at the Fostex TH900?  I prefer it over the HD800.  I think it is more enjoyable to listen to than the HD800 for all music genres.  IMO...




or Massdrop TH-X00 ebony


----------



## artemart

I got WA5 with TA-300B, 6C8G TS RP and Brimar rectifier and I was wondering if it is worth upgrading my 6C8G TS RP tube for Mullar ECC35 tube?


----------



## Khragon

Try c3g tube, with the adapter (Woo or Glenn, I recommend Glenn's), I find C3g to give the most transparent sound, allowing those 300Bs to shine.  Although the Brimar rectifers will be your bottle neck though, that is on the darker side.


----------



## artemart

khragon said:


> Try c3g tube, with the adapter (Woo or Glenn, I recommend Glenn's), I find C3g to give the most transparent sound, allowing those 300Bs to shine.  Although the Brimar rectifers will be your bottle neck though, that is on the darker side.


 
 I got c3g tube with Glenn adapters and I think it is an amazing tube but I do not think that c3g has good bass.
  
 You also mentioned that Brimar is my bottle neck, should I save up for TA-274 instead of getting ECC35?


----------



## Khragon

I only heard WE422A, never try TA-274, according Glenn the WE422A can handle the most voltage swing of all WA5 compatible rectifiers, and that is needed for the bass, so may try that.  Not cheap or easy to find a pair though, that is ultimately one of the reason I sold my WA5.


----------



## artemart

khragon said:


> I only heard WE422A, never try TA-274, according Glenn the WE422A can handle the most voltage swing of all WA5 compatible rectifiers, and that is needed for the bass, so may try that.  Not cheap or easy to find a pair though, that is ultimately one of the reason I sold my WA5.


 
  
 Good tubes are hard to find. I had to email over 50 stores all over the world to find one store that had NOS 6C8G TS RP in stock.


----------



## Khragon

Contact Glenn, I believe he can make you a pair of SS rectifiers, those will handle all the voltage swing your music can muster, and for much cheaper and last much longer than the best of tubes out there.
  
 Or maybe this will work.. should double check with Woo.  WA5 does not have regulated filament voltage, so.. proceed with caution.
  
 https://www.tubedepot.com/products/solid-state-rectifier


----------



## ghhf

My WA5 delivered today 7 January 2017, full of excitement! Immediately took a full gallery pics of the WA5 for unboxing and everything inside the chassis


----------



## abvolt

very cool bet that's fun..


----------



## ghhf

These two mice jumped over WA22 and now sitting on the WA5, they enjoyed the new home with fun ......


----------



## Badas

^

Very nice. 

You need a extra mouse to sit on the back transformer. Then it can be a 3 pack.


----------



## ghhf

Yes, probably I would need one more mice for maintaining that kind of sonic effect. I managed to setup my lab and loaded the WA5 on a strong flat bed trolley


----------



## gc335

My Woo Audio WA6 arrives tomorrow.  Looking forward to joining the club!


----------



## 3083joe

gc335 said:


> My Woo Audio WA6 arrives tomorrow.  Looking forward to joining the club!



Enjoy it. Woo makes great amps!
Oh And congrats


----------



## gc335

Thanks!


----------



## OldSkool

gc335 said:


> My Woo Audio WA6 arrives tomorrow.  Looking forward to joining the club!


 

 New guy buys the first round 
  
 Seriously, you are gonna love some Woo. Congrats!


----------



## gc335

oldskool said:


> New guy buys the first round
> 
> Seriously, you are gonna love some Woo. Congrats!


 

 Fair enough! Haha
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Porteroso

Glad to see another WA6 owner. I think it's got to be one of the great values in amp world. You get to use some great tubes, and aesthetically it's just on point.
  
 Let us know when you want us to rant on and on about tubes you should use!


----------



## Odin412

porteroso said:


> Let us know when you want us to rant on and on about tubes you should use!


 
  
 I am the happy owner of a WA6 as well and I would love to hear your ides about other tubes to try. I have upgraded the rectifier tube to a Sophia Princess - mostly because it looks cool, but I haven't tried any other tubes.


----------



## joseph69

odin412 said:


> I am the happy owner of a WA6 as well and I would love to hear your ides about other tubes to try. I have upgraded the rectifier tube to a Sophia Princess - mostly because it looks cool, but I haven't tried any other tubes.


 
  
 It seems most everyone (including myself) buys the "upgraded" SP274B. Although I do enjoy it at times (most don't) I don't feel it warrants its price/performance ratio.
  
 Try the Brimar 5Z4G from Langrex Tubes. Scroll down to 14th tube listing in the column. You really cant go wrong with this tube, its price/performance ratio far exceeds the SP274B.


----------



## Porteroso

I agree. The Sophia Princess can be fun, has an interesting presentation, and looks incredible, but is not close to being worth the money.
  
 The Brimar is a great rectifier as joseph said, most of us have a few.
  
 That said, at this point I am running a copper cap for my rectifier, and I will never go back to any other rectifier. Its price/performance is unbeatable. It clearly bests the Brimar, and also my U52, which I ran for a long time before. It gives as full of extension as I think any rectifier can, is tonally accurate, and dynamic. It is not recommended by Woo, but I've yet to see anyone have a problem with one. The U52 does have interesting qualities next to it, namely a very liquid midrange, but I'm starting to think that it's not actually liquid, just a little emphasized. And people who have compared the copper caps to the Takatsuki say that they are at least comparable. I would hope the Tak would beat it.
  
 Anyways that's all I have for rectification. Don't buy a U52 like I did, either get the Brimar, a copper cap, or just go all the way to WE, Taks, or the new Elrogs (if they have their stuff sorted, haven't payed attention).
  
 For power/driver tubes, you'll want to get a 6DE7 --> 6F8G adapter, so you can use 6F8G, 6C8G, and other tubes. They seem to be the sonic equivalent of 6SN7 in many cases, and offer some other tubes not available in 6SN7. More than that, 6F8G is cheaper than 6SN7. On ebay right now, you can pick up 4 National Union 6F8G for 110. It would be hard to beat that sound at that price. I use NU for my tubes. I also have Tung Sol 6F8G, which are also incredible. Probably slightly better than the NU, but who knows. Either are head and shoulders above anything else.
  
 And that's what I have to say about power/driver tubes. Get the adapter, pick up NU or TS 6F8G or 6C8G or equivalent.
  
 edit: Just a quick edit that all of this is in reference to the WA6. I'm using it with the Mimby, and Grado PS500. Also have the HD650, but everytime I pull them out, I don't see a reason to keep listening to them. Mostly I keep them for the long cord, sometimes it lets the woman and I listen at the same time.


----------



## Badas

^

Those last two posts are excellent. I concur on what has been said. Brimar and copper caps are excellent.

Using Brimar right now. Blows me away the performance / price of this tube. 
I own two Takatsuzuki 274B tubes (really expensive) and in my opinion the Brimar gets close and the copper cap beats.


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Those last two posts are excellent. I concur on what has been said. Brimar and copper caps are excellent.
> 
> ...


 
 I have all three for my WA5.  I got the Brimar  as a low cost backup for the Sophia 274B.  I used them for about 20 hrs and found no particular upside to the Sophia.  I like the copper caps as they almost completely wipe out any noise floor.  Eventually the Sophia went back in as the copper caps seemed a little cold and analytical.  Perhaps I need to give the Brimar some more time.


----------



## gc335

porteroso said:


> Glad to see another WA6 owner. I think it's got to be one of the great values in amp world. You get to use some great tubes, and aesthetically it's just on point.
> 
> Let us know when you want us to rant on and on about tubes you should use!


 
 I'm looking forward to some tube rolling.  I ordered the Sophia 274B as well.  I've read a lot of good things on these threads.


----------



## gc335

Has anyone gotten the 7N7 tube upgrade directly from Woo Audio for the WA6?  I'm wondering if anyone out there has any impressions on this combo.


----------



## Odin412

gc335 said:


> Has anyone gotten the 7N7 tube upgrade directly from Woo Audio for the WA6?  I'm wondering if anyone out there has any impressions on this combo.


 
  
 I bought it from Woo audio, but I ended up going back to the standard tube. The 7N7 sounded a bit bright to me. On the other hand I thought the standard tube sounded a bit dark at first, but I like it much better now. Perhaps I didn't give it enough time to burn in first? (And does that mean that I didn't give the 7N7 enough time before going back to the standard tube? These are the pitfalls of tube rolling...)


----------



## joseph69

gc335 said:


> Has anyone gotten the 7N7 tube upgrade directly from Woo Audio for the WA6?  I'm wondering if anyone out there has any impressions on this combo.


 
 To be quite honest, I wouldn't buy any tube "upgrades" from Woo.
 I tried the 7N7 as well as their other power/driver tubes and *I* didn't care for them at all, but you just might? You can find their "upgraded" tubes for much less if you look around. I do like the Woo power/driver tube adapters (which you would need for the 7N7). I have the 6DE7>6SN7 Woo adapter and it's well built and has great aesthetics.


----------



## gc335

odin412 said:


> I bought it from Woo audio, but I ended up going back to the standard tube. The 7N7 sounded a bit bright to me. On the other hand I thought the standard tube sounded a bit dark at first, but I like it much better now. Perhaps I didn't give it enough time to burn in first? (And does that mean that I didn't give the 7N7 enough time before going back to the standard tube? These are the pitfalls of tube rolling...)


 
 Good info thanks!  Maybe down the road!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

My personal travel Hi-Fi system. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Sony Walkman is the best way to enjoy DSD music through WA8 Eclipse.


----------



## jerick70

hifiguy528 said:


> My personal travel Hi-Fi system.    Sony Walkman is the best way to enjoy DSD music through WA8 Eclipse.




Very nice. Are those the new Sonys?


----------



## MIKELAP

odin412 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > Let us know when you want us to rant on and on about tubes you should use!
> ...


 
   The 6160 with this stucture is a very nice  Rectifier someone i know loves it in is WA6 i think there around  $60.00 sometimes less shop around


----------



## abvolt

jerick70 said:


> Very nice. Are those the new Sonys?


 
  
 Very nice indeed big bucks sitting on that table for portable gear I'll bet that sounds just great..enjoy


----------



## shapeshifter44

I am using WA22 with stock tubes. My headphone is single-end HD600 (still saving money for HD800s). I do sometimes hear the buzzing noise (without audio source, with smallest volume, with ZuAudio power cable). So that is normal? It is kind of annoying though. Is there any cheap way that I can do to eliminate the noise, like changing tubes or adding adapters? Or changing to HD800S will eliminate the noise?
 Thank you guys a lot.


----------



## shapeshifter44

badas said:


> Yip. You are right. I'm getting a buzzing sound that is usually associated with wire electrical noise.
> Maybe because the drivers are miles away from rectifiers. On the WA22 you most definitely get a buzzing sound.
> 
> 596 is a nice sounding rectifier tho. Excellent detail and soundstage.


 
 Hi, I am using WA22 with stock tubes. I do sometimes hear the buzzing noise. So that is normal? It is kind of annoying though.
 Thanks


----------



## Krutsch

shapeshifter44 said:


> I am using WA22 with stock tubes. My headphone is single-end HD600 (still saving money for HD800s). I do sometimes hear the buzzing noise (without audio source, with smallest volume, with ZuAudio power cable). So that is normal? It is kind of annoying though. *Is there any cheap way that I can do to eliminate the noise*, like changing tubes or adding adapters? Or changing to HD800S will eliminate the noise?
> Thank you guys a lot.


 
  
 With my WA3, I find I need to keep it away from other components - particularly power supplies and anything with a radio in it.
  
 I have a wireless bridge for my head-fi stack that is 10' away from my table, with my streamers and optical spinners (2 of each) connected with quality shielded ethernet cables via a switch with a shielded case. Overkill, I'm sure, but my WA3 is dead quiet with the right tubes (i.e. I have some tubes that buzz a little, but my daily drivers are quiet).
  
 Hope that helps...


----------



## Badas

shapeshifter44 said:


> Hi, I am using WA22 with stock tubes. I do sometimes hear the buzzing noise. So that is normal? It is kind of annoying though.
> Thanks




It shouldn't be normal however it seems to be with the WA22. It's called transformer hum and the WA22 is very suspectable to it. 

It seems all 274B tubes produce it. Even the pricey Tak274B. Brimar 5Z4G and Webber Copper Caps are clean and free of it.

A tube amp builder told me you can virtually eliminate it if you dip the power transformers in a epoxy resin. There is a company here that does it. So it is something I'm thinking of doing. A pity tube amp manufacturers don't do it as part of the build.


----------



## abvolt

It's not normal,  it's a tube doing that..enjoy


----------



## shapeshifter44

I am new to tube amp. Are you saying that tube amp usually has this problem? Thanks


abvolt said:


> It's not normal,  it's a tube doing that..enjoy


----------



## shapeshifter44

Thanks for your opinion. So you are suggesting to change 274B to some other rectifiers? 


badas said:


> It shouldn't be normal however it seems to be with the WA22. It's called transformer hum and the WA22 is very suspectable to it.
> 
> It seems all 274B tubes produce it. Even the pricey Tak274B. Brimar 5Z4G and Webber Copper Caps are clean and free of it.
> 
> A tube amp builder told me you can virtually eliminate it if you dip the power transformers in a epoxy resin. There is a company here that does it. So it is something I'm thinking of doing. A pity tube amp manufacturers don't do it as part of the build.


----------



## Badas

shapeshifter44 said:


> Thanks for your opinion. So you are suggesting to change 274B to some other rectifiers?




Yeah. 274B doesn't play nice with the WA22. Strange as it is a stock supplied tube.


----------



## shapeshifter44

badas said:


> Yeah. 274B doesn't play nice with the WA22. Strange as it is a stock supplied tube.


 
 Thanks a lot. You have any suggestions for replacement? Probably under $50. For the Brimar 5Z4G you mentioned, I noticed that 5Z4 is in the list of the WA22 manual but 5Z4G is not.


----------



## Badas

shapeshifter44 said:


> Thanks a lot. You have any suggestions for replacement? Probably under $50. For the Brimar 5Z4G you mentioned, I noticed that 5Z4 is in the list of the WA22 manual but 5Z4G is not.




Brimar 5Z4GY is a great start. I'm sure other members will have suggestions as well.

G stands for Glass so perfectly safe. Y stands for the bottle shape.


----------



## tejanolibre

thecrow said:


> Member "project86" has done a lot of dac reviews that might be helpful




I am using a balanced Wadia 122 dac and it is going to be feeding a WA22 fully balanced and the fully balanced outputs will be going to the new HD800 S series. 

We shall see but I like the Wadia 122 and someone is cheap selling a new factory sealed Wadia 122 for $900.00 .

That's $600.00 off the retail price and nobody does that. 

Good luck. 

The Wadias are rarely on the market and never discounted.


----------



## Maxx134

Does anyone know what is the topology of the wa22se ?

It looks like OTL & OCL design...
I Googled and went on Facebook yet I cannot find any details, 
so maybe somebody here knows a little bit more..
 I know it's a prototype so i realize it will have changes..


----------



## ghhf

ghhf said:


> These two mice jumped over WA22 and now sitting on the WA5, they enjoyed the new home with fun ......


 
  
 And managed to post back at WA5 First Impression, summary for my impression on the WA5


----------



## shapeshifter44

badas said:


> Okay. Thank you.
> 
> Some very interesting information. Very interesting about single ended connection. I was just online today looking for some balanced cables for my WA22. I have tried single end v's balanced in the WA22 before. I couldn't pick a difference. So with the explanation above I don't think I will bother with balanced.
> 
> ...


 
 Any suggestions for balanced cable (DAC to AMP) under $200? Thanks a lot.


----------



## Leotis

First thing I would do is disconnect the source. If the buzz goes away then maybe it isn't the tubes.
 I have an Oppo hooked to both a WooWA5 and also to a PrimaLuna Dialogue Integrated.
 I get a buzz from the PrimaLuna but the Woo is dead quiet.
 I figured out if I remove the ground from the Oppo the buzz disappears. Even though all 3 units are plugged into the same outlet.
 Might be worth a try.


----------



## jerick70

shapeshifter44 said:


> Any suggestions for balanced cable (DAC to AMP) under $200? Thanks a lot.


 
  
 I've been very happy with my Audioquest Mackenzie XLR cables.  I've paired this cable with a WA22 and now a WA5 and they are very nice.  The AQs replaced a pair of Kimber Heros and I prefer the AQ.


----------



## tejanolibre

Howdy ,
  
 Check out 
  
 http://www.audioartcable.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AAC-IC3-XLR
  
 Highly recommended by a lot of reviewers.
  
 Well made and may be having a sale.
  
 Happy Listening,
  
 TL


----------



## ghhf

ghhf said:


> These two mice jumped over WA22 and now sitting on the WA5, they enjoyed the new home with fun ......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
Show Time! Lets Rock & Roll!


----------



## artemart

ghhf said:


> Show Time! Lets Rock & Roll!


 
 Wow... Ones you finish with them please send them to me for a test drive.


----------



## ghhf

artemart said:


> Wow... Ones you finish with them please send them to me for a test drive.




Look like my trial would never finish ...... lol


----------



## pervysage

Any word on the WA22-SE prototype? Seems like it has gone back into hiding for further improvements? Haven't really heard about it being at any of the shows.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

pervysage said:


> Any word on the WA22-SE prototype? Seems like it has gone back into hiding for further improvements? Haven't really heard about it being at any of the shows.


 
  
 It will make another appearance at CanJam SoCal in April. By then, we _should_ have the sound finalized. 
  
 http://www.canjamglobal.com/socal2017


----------



## artemart

pervysage said:


> Any word on the WA22-SE prototype? Seems like it has gone back into hiding for further improvements? Haven't really heard about it being at any of the shows.


 
 I think I am going to hear a prototype later on this month. If you want I can post some impressions.
  
  
 Also have any of the WA5/LE owners have posted any comparisons of try to compare WU4GB (SS rectifier) vs other more expensive rectifiers like WE-274, WE-422 or TA-274?


----------



## artemart

ghhf said:


> Look like my trial would never finish ...... lol


 
 If you have any time can you post impressions of WE-274 vs other rectifiers please.


----------



## innocentblood

hifiguy528 said:


> It will make another appearance at CanJam SoCal in April. By then, we _should_ have the sound finalized.
> 
> http://www.canjamglobal.com/socal2017


 

 any chance of an appearance @ the CanJam SG in March?


----------



## ghhf

artemart said:


> If you have any time can you post impressions of WE-274 vs other rectifiers please.


 

 Yes, that is in my original plan, I am going to compare the WE274A with many other rectifier tubes on my WA5, some of my collection in the list - WE422A, Marconi/ Osram/ GEC/ Mullard/ NU 5U4G, TS 5U4G (top sliver square getter), USF596, GZ34 (metal base). And the very special *Globe WE274A ...... *




  
 Keep checking the PROJECT WA5+++ thread for my latest impression .....


----------



## pippen99

artemart said:


> I think I am going to hear a prototype later on this month. If you want I can post some impressions.
> 
> 
> Also have any of the WA5/LE owners have posted any comparisons of try to compare WU4GB (SS rectifier) vs other more expensive rectifiers like WE-274, WE-422 or TA-274?


 
 I have three sets of rectifiers for my WA5.  They are Brimar 5Z4GY, SE-274 and the WU4GB.  I also have the Stock Shuguang but they are basically just glass and air taking up space.  For me the WU4GB are a glass half full type of thing.  The full part is that the noise floor is reduced to almost nothing.  The WA5 is dead silent with the SS rectifiers installed.  The empty part is that the amp becomes somewhat clinical and dry losing some of the characteristic warmth of a tube amp.  I have a SS amp in the Cavalli Liquid Gold switching back and forth as the mood suits.  So after a few weeks the Sophia's went back in.  The Brimar's are held in high regard by some here.  I bought them as a backup to the Sophia's but after about 20 hours I could not hear a superior difference.  Perhaps I did not give them enough time.


----------



## tejanolibre

jc9394 said:


> Can I join? I have not receive my amp yet.




Howdy ,

I just ordered my WA22 a few days ago and unfortunately I have been collecting tubes without knowing anything about them and I have been using Ebay which is a very bad idea. 

Anyway, I am very excited about this new adventure in the audio world. 
I am currently using a Wadia 122 DAC fully balanced and I will feed the WA22 a fully balanced signal and then I will feed the latest version of the HD800 S series a balanced diet. 

Mostly classical strings and female voices but I also like almost every type of music except rap music. 
I hope that everyone will welcome my own experiences and thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas. 

Happy Listening, 

TL

Living in Audio Hell. 

Buenos Aires, Argentina


----------



## Badas

tejanolibre said:


> Howdy ,
> 
> I just ordered my WA22 a few days ago and unfortunately I have been collecting tubes without knowing anything about them and I have been using Ebay which is a very bad idea.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats,
  
 WA22 will suit your gear very well.
  
 Ask questions here if you have any. Great bunch of members:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826386/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite


----------



## Porteroso

tejanolibre said:


> jc9394 said:
> 
> 
> > Can I join? I have not receive my amp yet.
> ...


 
 As a fellow classical lover (a violinist), you will want the NU/TS variants. For the WA22 I'm sure Badas can tell you exactly what to get.
  
 Also, for me, with the WA6, I cannot agree with the comments of the copper caps being lifeless. I find them very resolving, with great noise floor. Improvements in noise floor lead to better perceived dynamics, and for me, maybe it's different on the WA5, the TS/NU 6F8G give such warmth and color to music, that I don't think it needs any more. Certainly the U52 that I have is a great tube, and does present an incredible landscape focused on the liquidity of the middle, but for the cost, it would be difficult to justify it when the copper caps have things going for them as well.
  
 Obviously the WA6 does not pull from the rectifiers like the WA5 does, so much of it might just be the design and how important the rectifiers are to each amp.


----------



## tejanolibre

Thank you very much but I don't have a clue!
  
 The Wadia sounds great but the power seems lacking for the 800 S series single ended.
  
 I am hoping that the WA22 will bring back my love affair with my old 600's and the RKV2 German tubed amp.
  
 They are really hard to find used and the RKV3 is too expensive.
  
 On a different note I was wondering if a dual mono block headphone amp existed and suddenly I fell in love with Woo's top of the line !
  
 Better than a girlfriend I am certain !
  
 Can anyone please help me identify these 5998 tubes?

  
 United National never existed but National Union yes.
  
 Made in England my butt ! Closer to Moscow probably!
  
 Absolutely like new.
  
 Seller's description:
  
  
 "UNITED NATIONAL 6AS7G TUBES, BLACK PLATE, MADE IN ENGLAND
  
  THIS IS OUR FifTH PAIR OF UNITED NATIONAL 6AS7G TUBES FOR SALE.   THEY HAVE BEEN TESTED WITH HICKOK 539C AND MERCURY 1200 MUTUAL CONDUCTANCE TUBE TESTERS.

  
 AND TEST:   1.   103% / 104%
  
                        2.  102% / 102%
  
  WITH     2100    BEING   NOS  OR  100%  
  
   A CLOSE MATCH AND ALSO TEST NOS!  EXTREMELY GOOD BUILD QUALITY,TUBES.
  
  BOTH TUBES HAVE MATCHED CODES ON THE BASES. POSSIBLY BY MULLARD OR GENELEX.
  
  HARD TO FIND WITH THESE HIGH READINGS AND MATCHED."
  
 Forgot to mention the lying Saucers !
  
 Mullard not likely.
  
 Thank You Kindly,
  
 TL


----------



## rudra

Those are Russian equivalent of the 6AS7. Some time ago I purchased a set of 4 OTK winged C for $40. 5998 have a dimpled plates.


----------



## artemart

Does any one know where I can find a review TA-274 vs WE-274?


----------



## Badas

artemart said:


> Does any one know where I can find a review TA-274 vs WE-274?




There is bits of information floating around. I have a couple of TAK274's but haven't listened to a WE-274. So no comment.

The only member who has is Simon (isquirel). Posts are somewhere on this thread. He compared using a Woo WA234. He said the TAK was a step above the WE-274.


----------



## tejanolibre

Thank You Kindly,
  
 TL
  
 What is your opinion on the quality and the year of manufacture ?


----------



## Badas

tejanolibre said:


> Thank You Kindly,
> 
> TL
> 
> What is your opinion on the quality and the year of manufacture ?




Hi, 

I'm a bit confused. Are you asking me the quality of the TAK274B and date manufactured?


----------



## tejanolibre

Absolutely not !
The Japanese unit is without question a very good tube. 

I was wondering about the Russian garbage that I have pictured in my hand. 

I apologize for the lack of information. 
TL


----------



## ghhf

Having my WA5 open box over a month, I managed to have the collection tubes loaded on my WA5 and prepare to experience the first test drive listening …..Now time to power up and ready to rock!


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Wow! nice tubes (and amp).


----------



## ru4music

badas said:


> ^
> 
> Wow! nice tubes (and amp).


 
  
 x2!


----------



## shapeshifter44

leotis said:


> First thing I would do is disconnect the source. If the buzz goes away then maybe it isn't the tubes.
> I have an Oppo hooked to both a WooWA5 and also to a PrimaLuna Dialogue Integrated.
> I get a buzz from the PrimaLuna but the Woo is dead quiet.
> I figured out if I remove the ground from the Oppo the buzz disappears. Even though all 3 units are plugged into the same outlet.
> Might be worth a try.


 
 Thanks so much. After I connect my amp directly to wall, the noise greatly reduced. I am using HD600 and I can barely hear noise in Low now but sometimes still can hear noise in High. Is that because HD600 is not suitable for High?


----------



## Badas

shapeshifter44 said:


> Thanks so much. After I connect my amp directly to wall, the noise greatly reduced. I am using HD600 and I can barely hear noise in Low now but sometimes still can hear noise in High. Is that because HD600 is not suitable for High?


 

 Are your tubes fairly fresh (new)?
 They can change with time. Some tubes buzz for a while then settle.


----------



## shapeshifter44

badas said:


> Are your tubes fairly fresh (new)?
> They can change with time. Some tubes buzz for a while then settle.


 
 Yes I am lol. My problem is that the noise (which is tolerable though) keeps existing, without source.


----------



## Badas

shapeshifter44 said:


> Yes I am lol. My problem is that the noise (which is tolerable though) keeps existing, without source.


 

 It's a high chance that it's the tubes themselves. What amp? What tubes?
  
 Can you throw up a pic to help me out?


----------



## Leotis

High setting might not be right for your phones.
 Here is a link for settings for a variety of headphones with WA5.
  
 https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/
  
 Looks like Senheiser is lo power, hi impedance, lo level.
 Wrong setting might be a reason for any residual noise.


----------



## Leotis

Why an adapter for the Tung Sol 6SN7?


----------



## abvolt

leotis said:


> Why an adapter for the Tung Sol 6SN7?


 
 That's a socket saver not an adapter..


----------



## Leotis

I guess I didn't know there was such a thing.
 Too bad. I have the same Tung Sol 6SN7 in my WA5 and the base came loose on one of them. Still works fine but I have to be careful to grasp just the base when inserting or removing. The pins were pretty corroded and the Woo socket is pretty tight. So I polished the pins. But I am very reluctant to change out those tubes now. Which is not a giant problem because I don't know of a better 6SN7 for the Woo anyway.
 Do you?


----------



## abvolt

Check out the mullard ECC31's they are not too high priced you can get a great early 1950's pair for around 260. much finer sounding then any 6sn7. When I tried them & the 32's 35's I was sold never going back..


----------



## MIKELAP

leotis said:


> I guess I didn't know there was such a thing.
> Too bad. I have the same Tung Sol 6SN7 in my WA5 and the base came loose on one of them. Still works fine but I have to be careful to grasp just the base when inserting or removing. The pins were pretty corroded and the Woo socket is pretty tight. So I polished the pins. But I am very reluctant to change out those tubes now. Which is not a giant problem because I don't know of a better 6SN7 for the Woo anyway.
> Do you?


 
 I use super glue with my loose base tubes just put a little all around where glass meets base  so far they stay glued


----------



## abvolt

mikelap said:


> I use super glue with my loose base tubes just put a little all around where glass meets base  so far they stay glued


 
 I do the same thing works great..


----------



## Leotis

Awesome tip. Thank you!


----------



## Leotis

abvolt said:


> Check out the mullard ECC31's they are not too high priced you can get a great early 1950's pair for around 260. much finer sounding then any 6sn7. When I tried them & the 32's 35's I was sold never going back


 
 Good to know. Thank you!
 I knew a fresh way to spend money on audio was just around the corner!


----------



## Leotis

abvolt said:


> Check out the mullard ECC31's they are not too high priced you can get a great early 1950's pair for around 260. much finer sounding then any 6sn7. When I tried them & the 32's 35's I was sold never going back..


 

 So I snagged a pair off of eBay for $244!
 I love Mullards. Have the CV4003s in my PrimaLuna.
 Can you recommend a source for an adapter?
 Thanks for the tip. 
  
 Anybody want a used Tung Sol with a loose base?


----------



## MIKELAP

leotis said:


> abvolt said:
> 
> 
> > Check out the mullard ECC31's they are not too high priced you can get a great early 1950's pair for around 260. much finer sounding then any 6sn7. When I tried them & the 32's 35's I was sold never going back..
> ...


 
 i use these adapters in my WA22  ECC31 TO 6SN7   http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC32-ECC33-tube-converter-adapter-/201134198992?hash=item2ed48850d0:g:LNYAAOSwPcVVvs1s


----------



## Leotis

I get the impression based on test results I see listed for various ECC31s that they have lower output than the 6SN7.
 Do you think that is a problem with my power hungry Abyss phones on the WA5?


----------



## abvolt

I say you'll really enjoy them congrats..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

shapeshifter44 said:


> Yes I am lol. My problem is that the noise (which is tolerable though) keeps existing, without source.


 
  
 Check the settings. What headphone are you using? Most headphones are LO power and LO Level setting.


----------



## pofdstudios

Just got my Wa7's in and up and running


----------



## jerick70

pofdstudios said:


> Just got my Wa7's in and up and running


 
  
 Congrats!  The WA7 is an very nice Amp/DAC combo.  I use one for my desk setup at work.


----------



## Leotis

Interesting HP stand.


----------



## pofdstudios

Thanks!


----------



## Badas

pofdstudios said:


> Just got my Wa7's in and up and running


 
  
 It looks great. WA7 is such a looker.


----------



## Leotis

Think I may build a similar HP stand.
 But with 2 horizontal supports maybe better with Abyss.
 Odd HPs don't balance on a stand too well.
 The biker chic motif sort of matchs the Abyss styling.
 What did you use for the base?


----------



## pofdstudios

I used an old piece of wood I had in the basement and just painted it. Then sanded through parts while it was still soft then cleared it. Went to Lowes and got some cast iron pipe with a T fitting and a few caps and a flange. Think it cost me like 15 bucks to make.


----------



## abvolt

pofdstudios said:


> Just got my Wa7's in and up and running


 
 Very cool congrats loved my time with my wa7/tp..enjoy


----------



## Leotis

pofdstudios said:


> I used an old piece of wood I had in the basement and just painted it. Then sanded through parts while it was still soft then cleared it. Went to Lowes and got some cast iron pipe with a T fitting and a few caps and a flange. Think it cost me like 15 bucks to make.


 

 I'm gonna do it.
 Will post a pic.
 (If I can figure out how)  :0)


----------



## artemart

If this is not to much to ask of WA5/WA5-LE owners to list their top 3 driver and rectifier tubes.


----------



## pofdstudios

leotis said:


> I'm gonna do it.
> Will post a pic.
> (If I can figure out how)  :0)


 

 1" in Flange. 12"in threaded pipe, 1"in Tee, 1 End cap and 1 plug. Screw it all together and paint color of your choice and then mount on the wood of your choice. Cheap, simple and looks cool


----------



## musicman59

artemart said:


> If this is not to much to ask of WA5/WA5-LE owners to list their top 3 driver and rectifier tubes.


 
 For me.
 Drivers:
 1) TS BG/RP 6F8G
 2) TS BG/RP 6SN7GT
 3) Sylvania 6SN7WGT short bottle, brown base, chrome top
  
 Rectifiers:
 1) Cossor 53KU
 2) GEC U52
 3) USAF 596
 4) EML 5U4G, Brimar 5R4GY
  
 I have not tried the Taks 274B


----------



## Leotis

I read that the internals on the TS 6F8G are the same as the 6SN7.
 How would you contrast the sound?
 Does the 6F8G require an adapter/
 ?
 Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP

leotis said:


> I read that the internals on the TS 6F8G are the same as the 6SN7.
> How would you contrast the sound?
> Does the 6F8G require an adapter/
> ?
> Thanks


 
 Yes they do       http://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-TOP-GOLD-PLATED-6F8G-6C8G-TO-6SN7-6SL7-TUBE-CONVERTER-ADAPTER-/201202356729?hash=item2ed89851f9:g:hdwAAOSwjVVVvCz5


----------



## Leotis

6F8G look super cool.
 I have 3 pr of TS 6SN7GT oval mica. Wanted to make sure I had backups.
 Like them better than Sylvania 6SN7GT for the midrange.
 I have tried maybe 6 different 6SN7 and the Sylvania 6SN7GT and Tung Sol 6SN7GT are very nice.
 The others were nothing special.
 Got some Mullard ECC31 b/o Abvolt's opinion.
 Haven't arrived yet so we'll see.
 Do have high hopes though.
 Aside from the cool factor, do 6F8G sound very different from the 6SN7?


----------



## musicman59

leotis said:


> I read that the internals on the TS 6F8G are the same as the 6SN7.
> How would you contrast the sound?
> Does the 6F8G require an adapter/
> ?
> Thanks


 
 IMO they sound a little different and better specially in the size and presentation of the soundstage with the 6F8G having bigger soundstage and even more natural sound.
 Yes, they require an adapter.


----------



## phase0

+1 for TSRP 6F8G, also like the National Union 6C8G (I liked them over pretty much all the 6SN7s I've had).
 Of the rectifiers I have I liked Brimar 5R4GY, Mullard GZ32, and the Weber WU4GB


----------



## JoeDoe

Hey there Woo-sters! I realize it's a little counterintuitive, but if any of you blokes are interested to sell or trade a black WA22, please let this head-fier know!

As you were.


----------



## ghhf

Have some interesting DIY work on my WA5 today ...... LOL
  
 And just completed a follow up session ...... Yeap! What a difference in sonic effect (clarity, resolution of tone, dynamic response), feel like adding another upgrade! SWEET!


----------



## Porteroso

You have bought into the upgraditis hype full throttle. Good for you. Happiness is good for all of us.


----------



## ghhf

Look like that is the case, though not necessarily spending more big bucks, after the first month trial run, I am adding back one by one what I had done on my WA22 & WA6 SE, to have the stock WA5 turned into an "optimized" configuration. There are still work at the AC power supply for further improvement, perphas some minor work inside the WA5 PSU too. :rolleyes:

With all these done, I would focus on the rolling of tubes and headphones looking for live impressions, already got some initial Impression Register updated.


----------



## abvolt

leotis said:


> 6F8G look super cool.
> I have 3 pr of TS 6SN7GT oval mica. Wanted to make sure I had backups.
> Like them better than Sylvania 6SN7GT for the midrange.
> I have tried maybe 6 different 6SN7 and the Sylvania 6SN7GT and Tung Sol 6SN7GT are very nice.
> ...


 
  
 Once you  listen to the ecc31's or any of the eccxx's I'll bet you won't go back to the 6sn7's, let us know what you think..enjoy


----------



## Leotis

Got the tubes.
 Adapters arriving tomorrow...


----------



## abvolt

Awesome post-up some pics..


----------



## Leotis

I think maybe the CV 1285 is the military # for the ECC31 (I hope)
 So Takatsuki 300B, Tung Sol 6SN7GT, Sophia Princess 274B.
 It's gonna be your fault if I end up with $1000 worth of TS 6SN7GT that I can't use. :/


----------



## MIKELAP

leotis said:


> I think maybe the CV 1285 is the military # for the ECC31 (I hope)
> So Takatsuki 300B, Tung Sol 6SN7GT, Sophia Princess 274B.
> It's gonna be your fault if I end up with $1000 worth of TS 6SN7GT that I can't use. :/


 
 I have a couple pairs of NR73/ ECC31


----------



## abvolt

Are the the black glass, plus you could do as I've done in the past up for sale on ebay ask a little more than you paid..


----------



## Leotis

TS VT 231 oval mica X 3 pair.
 Tend to go for $400+/pr NOS
 Used maybe less.
 But they sound freakin wonderful.
 Will be pleasantly surprised if the Mullard are more than just a little bit better.
 Plus 2 pair of Sylvania VT231 that most rank near the top of the pile also.
 I use Sophia Princess 6SN7 in my ModWright Oppos. In the WA5 they sound a bit clinical maybe.
 Plus I have some Electro Harmonix and some 50's Tung Sol
 6SN7s coming out my ears, so to speak.


----------



## kyle1010

hifiguy528 said:


> Check the settings. What headphone are you using? Most headphones are LO power and LO Level setting.




Hey unrelated quick question. Will you guys be bringing the WA22-SE to CanJam Socal?


----------



## kyle1010

leotis said:


> TS VT 231 oval mica X 3 pair.
> Tend to go for $400+/pr NOS
> Used maybe less.
> But they sound freakin wonderful.
> ...




I see you live in San Diego? I do too, we should hang sometime! I'd love to hear my LCD-4s on your WA5 and compare them to those Abyss. Plus we could talk tubes. I thought I was the only one in these parts that has tube addictions lol.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kyle1010 said:


> Hey unrelated quick question. Will you guys be bringing the WA22-SE to CanJam Socal?


 
  
 We are working to finalize the sound. *If all goes well*, we'll have a WA22-SE (prototype) for auditioning. Bring your headphones! We look forward to seeing you. 
  
 Thanks for being a fan!


----------



## Leotis

So I popped in the ECC31 with adapter and there is about 1/16" clearance.
 Turned it on and... nothing. No sound.
 So I called Woo and Mike said tubes compatible but don't need adapter.
 See compatibility chart:
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html
 Waiting for tubes to cool so I can try without adapter.
 Hope it works. Hope I didn't cook the tubes somehow.
 Update to follow.


----------



## Leotis

No luck. Tubes not heating up. Maybe the CV1285 is not equivalent tube.
 Everything I see seems to indicate they are.
 Bummer.


----------



## MIKELAP

leotis said:


> No luck. Tubes not heating up. Maybe the CV1285 is not equivalent tube.
> Everything I see seems to indicate they are.
> Bummer.


 
 i use those tubes with adapters  as drivers in my WA22 .Not sure but looks like a screw up in compatibilty chart as far as i recall you only use adapters with the ECC31 tubes the other ones are plug &play


----------



## MIKELAP

This is from the ECC31 thread


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## Leotis

Thanks for the link.Without the adapter the CV1285 did not heat up . With the adapter, I didn't touch the tube but also did not see it glow. Maybe I just got dead tubes, but they look pretty new. And the seller seems pretty legit; old_guy_radiola on eBay. Has the finest collection of awesome  and unusual tubes I've ever seen.
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/old_guy_radiola/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=


----------



## Oskari

leotis said:


> And the seller seems pretty legit; old_guy_radiola on eBay. Has the finest collection of awesome  and unusual tubes I've ever seen.




Have you ever googled the guy?


----------



## abvolt

Why does Woo Audio's site  say no adapters for any eccxx ? 
  take a look --> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


----------



## Leotis

oskari said:


> Have you ever googled the guy?


 

 I have now.
 Apparently some kinda character.
 Does have some interesting tubes though.
 Will see if he takes a return.
 He offered to swap for some 6SN7s.


----------



## Kiet Teoh

i tried my ecc31 on my wa22 without adapter....but it didn't have any sound...lucky the tubes not spoil..... confirm ecc31 need adapter on wa22....


----------



## MIKELAP

kiet teoh said:


> i tried my ecc31 on my wa22 without adapter....but it didn't have any sound...lucky the tubes not spoil..... confirm ecc31 need adapter on wa22....


. Yes they do. Picture of adapters above


----------



## Leotis

Maybe I got a defective pair of adapters.
 They are inexpensive so worth another try.
 But takes a while from China.


----------



## MIKELAP

leotis said:


> Maybe I got a defective pair of adapters.
> They are inexpensive so worth another try.
> But takes a while from China.


 
 I have those adapters, good socket quality. tell seller your adapters are not working if your sure its the adapters and he should replace them usually they do .here's where i got them price is for one adapter
   http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC32-ECC33-tube-converter-adapter-/201134198992?hash=item2ed48850d0:g:LNYAAOSwPcVVvs1s


----------



## Leotis

mikelap said:


> I have those adapters, good socket quality. tell seller your adapters are not working if your sure its the adapters and he should replace them usually they do .here's where i got them price is for one adapter
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC32-ECC33-tube-converter-adapter-/201134198992?hash=item2ed48850d0:g:LNYAAOSwPcVVvs1s


 

 Thanks. I had already bookmarked that particular adapter. Figure I will pick them up. I had ordered some slightly cheaper ones. Wonder the likelihood the ones I got were duds. Would be awesome if I could get those tubes working


----------



## MIKELAP

leotis said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I have those adapters, good socket quality. tell seller your adapters are not working if your sure its the adapters and he should replace them usually they do .here's where i got them price is for one adapter
> ...


 
 Is there one tube that works maybe you could swap sides just to see if the tube is to blame or the adapters 


abvolt said:


> Why does Woo Audio's site  say no adapters for any eccxx ?
> take a look --> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


 
 Nobodys perfect i guess wouldnt be the first he makes a mistake


----------



## abvolt

kiet teoh said:


> i tried my ecc31 on my wa22 without adapter....but it didn't have any sound...lucky the tubes not spoil..... confirm ecc31 need adapter on wa22....


 
 yes they do it's just weird that on their own site Woo doesn't state that one needs adapters for the eccxx's too bad I guess..


----------



## Kiet Teoh

it was stated ecc31s are require adapter just recently don't know why they changed... appreciated if Woo can clarify to avoid any future confusion/damage......


----------



## phase0

I have a pair of ECC35 tubes that work in my WA5 without any adapter. I haven't tried any other ECCxx tubes.
  
 I just picked up a couple AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA cables trying to see if I can improve anything between my Yggy and the WA5. That was the best RCA cable the dealer had in stock. I didn't really expect anything but subjectively I think it was an improvement.
  
 Now I'm wondering if I should turn around and return it to try to get their next step up in the line like the Yukon? In that case I would have to order it. My fuzzy line of thinking would come down to "okay I think I like this little upgrade, but while I'm in upgrade mode is that adequate or should I go for more? or is that futile and just stick with Mackenzie?" I don't know if there's any productive answer there but I'm wonder if anyone has any thoughts?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

pofdstudios said:


> Just got my Wa7's in and up and running


 
  
 beautiful setup.


----------



## Krutsch

Just got some new tubes: Western Electric JW 2C51 (396A) drivers + 5670(6N3) TO ECC88 socket converters.
  
 Paired with a WE 421a power tube, we now have the "Western Electric Edition" WA3  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  

  
 Breaking in with my original pressing of Toto IV on my other recent purchase: Rega RP3.


----------



## phase0

krutsch said:


> Just got some new tubes: Western Electric JW 2C51 (396A) drivers + 5670(6N3) TO ECC88 socket converters.
> Paired with a WE 421a power tube, we now have the "Western Electric Edition" WA3
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sweet little setup there. Friends warned me not to get into vinyl (endless money pit). How do the WEs sound?


----------



## Krutsch

phase0 said:


> Sweet little setup there. Friends warned me not to get into vinyl (endless money pit). *How do the WEs sound?*


 
  
 The Western Electrics are epic, they really are. I have a collection of the 421a power tubes, but the new ones are the drivers + adapters.
  
 The new drivers are LOUD, speaking anecdotally (I don't have an SPL meter, but looking at the volume pot position, the change is significant).
  
 Still breaking in the new drivers and I will hold off on sound observations. But coming from the Telefunken E188CC drivers, they have more punch and volume, but are not as smooth or "tubey" if I can use that term. I've learned to let tubes burn-in before making sound quality judgements, so we'll see how it goes.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> The Western Electrics are epic, they really are. I have a collection of the 421a power tubes, but the new ones are the drivers + adapters.
> 
> The new drivers are LOUD, speaking anecdotally (I don't have an SPL meter, but looking at the volume pot position, the change is significant).
> 
> Still breaking in the new drivers and I will hold off on sound observations. But coming from the Telefunken E188CC drivers, they have more punch and volume, but are not as smooth or "tubey" if I can use that term. I've learned to let tubes burn-in before making sound quality judgements, so we'll see how it goes.


 

 You'll need to put a few hours on them before they sound their best (50 hours to appreciate their merits and 100 to 200 hours for that last +5%.)  I have been running them for a while now (Northern Electric branded) on my WA2 along with the TS 5998.  I have not noticed any major differences in sound level from my other drivers though.  The NE 396A and '74/ '75 SWG silver plate sheild Reflektors are my favorites.
  
 edit: added burn in times


----------



## Arcamera

Hello fellow Woo fans, just thought I'd share my 'end of the long work day' rig. (For my home office set up I use a WA2--which I like a lot-- with the recent ZMF Eikon cans, mostly for classical music). I still have yet to do much tube experimentation. But what I'm really passionate about right now is Kennerton headphones-- the Odin and the Vali, pictured below. Best headphones I've ever had. Probably not everyone's cup of tea, but a big thumbs up from me. Brilliant stuff from St. Petersburg, Russia. A shame they're not more readily available/distributed in North America. Anyway, happy listening all...


----------



## jerick70

arcamera said:


> Hello fellow Woo fans, just thought I'd share my 'end of the long work day' rig. (For my home office set up I use a WA2--which I like a lot-- with the recent ZMF Eikon cans, mostly for classical music). I still have yet to do much tube experimentation. But what I'm really passionate about right now is Kennerton headphones-- the Odin and the Vali, pictured below. Best headphones I've ever had. Probably not everyone's cup of tea, but a big thumbs up from me. Brilliant stuff from St. Petersburg, Russia. A shame they're not more readily available/distributed in North America. Anyway, happy listening all...


 
  
 Kennerton headphones look interesting.  Very interesting indeed.....


----------



## watchdog507

Hi All,
  
 I'm posting on this thread to get some advice.  I'm in a dilemma where I am looking at a new WA5-LE V2 that I can get from an authorized dealer for a good price.  My challenge is whether I should consider a WA22 also.  I'm running a Brooklyn DAC with a Violectric 281 all balanced.  Phones are HEX's.  I'm keeping the V281.  I can use a balanced  cascade from the Violectric to the Woo. Most of the reviews and comparisons were of the old V1 WA5-LE's. I know that the WA5-LE V2 is single ended even though it uses balanced in and out. Should I wait to find a WA22 or will the WA5-LE V2 be a superior experience.  Space is not really a concern.


----------



## jerick70

watchdog507 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm posting on this thread to get some advice.  I'm in a dilemma where I am looking at a new WA5-LE V2 that I can get from an authorized dealer for a good price.  My challenge is whether I should consider a WA22 also.  I'm running a Brooklyn DAC with a Violectric 281 all balanced.  Phones are HEX's.  I'm keeping the V281.  I can use a balanced  cascade from the Violectric to the Woo. Most of the reviews and comparisons were of the old V1 WA5-LE's. I know that the WA5-LE V2 is single ended even though it uses balanced in and out. Should I wait to find a WA22 or will the WA5-LE V2 be a superior experience.  Space is not really a concern.




I've owned both the WA22 and the WA5-LE. Get the WA5-LE V2. You won't be disappointed. It is in another league from the WA22. One warning.... Tubes are a killer for the WA5. 

One other caveat, you can still use the WA5-LE as a speaker amp. You just need to purchase a custom cable that connects to the XLR out and converts to 4 bananas or spades. Works really well.


----------



## watchdog507

jerick70 said:


> I've owned both the WA22 and the WA5-LE. Get the WA5-LE V2. You won't be disappointed. It is in another league from the WA22. One warning.... Tubes are a killer for the WA5.
> 
> One other caveat, you can still use the WA5-LE as a speaker amp. You just need to purchase a custom cable that connects to the XLR out and converts to 4 bananas or spades. Works really well.


 
 Interesting, I didn't know that I could push some speakers that way. I'm not going to power speakers.  I'm going to do a dedicated sound room once I do a major housekeeping/purge.  I'm leaning towards the WA5-LE V2.  I know that tubes will be painful. In preparation for the amp, I've been slowly stockpiling a stash. I recently bought a lot of 40 6SN7 tubes to get a few great ones.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

watchdog507 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm posting on this thread to get some advice.  I'm in a dilemma where I am looking at a new WA5-LE V2 that I can get from an authorized dealer for a good price.  My challenge is whether I should consider a WA22 also.  I'm running a Brooklyn DAC with a Violectric 281 all balanced.  Phones are HEX's.  I'm keeping the V281.  I can use a balanced  cascade from the Violectric to the Woo. Most of the reviews and comparisons were of the old V1 WA5-LE's. I know that the WA5-LE V2 is single ended even though it uses balanced in and out. Should I wait to find a WA22 or will the WA5-LE V2 be a superior experience.  Space is not really a concern.


 
  
 If WA5-LE v2 is within your budget, get it over WA22. The performance difference is HUGE, even at low level listening.


----------



## Leotis

+1 for WA5.
 Big +1 for Takatsuki 300B
 Don't worry about speakers. Finding adequate speakers for a 10W amp is a difficult proposition.
 Every speaker that "sounds great" with 10W sounds better with more power.
 I got the WA5. Wish I gotten the LE with upgraded parts instead. YMMV.


----------



## watchdog507

leotis said:


> +1 for WA5.
> Big +1 for Takatsuki 300B
> Don't worry about speakers. Finding adequate speakers for a 10W amp is a difficult proposition.
> Every speaker that "sounds great" with 10W sounds better with more power.
> I got the WA5. Wish I gotten the LE with upgraded parts instead. YMMV.


 
 Thanks for the advice.  It mirrors the way I'm leaning to the 5"s.  The TAK's are interesting but I have an issue with that painful price point. I don't have the option of upgraded Caps.  It's a dealer stocked item.


----------



## pippen99

watchdog507 said:


> Thanks for the advice.  It mirrors the way I'm leaning to the 5"s.  The TAK's are interesting but I have an issue with that painful price point. I don't have the option of upgraded Caps.  It's a dealer stocked item.


 
 I have a WA5 and a Cavalli Liquid Gold.  The Lau probably gets more time simply because of convenience.  The Lau boots up in 2.5 minutes and is as good as it is going to be from the start.  I let the WA5 warm up for 10 minutes and find that it doesn't sound it's best for at least another 15 minutes.  That doesn't mean the WA5 is not a keeper.  Yes the Taks or Western Electric are Holy Grail stuff and expensive as hell but you can get close without breaking the bank.  I bought mine used with the upgrade Sophia Electric tubes(300b and rectifier).  You can get very good performance rectifiers such as the Brimar 5Z4GY or the Weber WU4GB SS copper caps for less than $100.  If you have already collected some 6SN7 your good.  The 300B are more expensive but still such tubes as the EML 300B which is well regarded at around $650 will get you some very good sounds.


----------



## pippen99

Some time ago a contributor to this thread was awaiting the arrival of a pair of the redesigned Elrog 300b and was going to report back.  I can't remember who it was or how long ago since I am old and retired.  I was considering them as back up or replacement for the SERP but no one seems to have any experience to share.  Anybody out there?


----------



## Porteroso

From what I read, there were early problems with the redesigned elrogs too. I just would not touch them until there is a design that's been thoroughly used for a few years.


----------



## Leotis

Even with the stock tubes it will probably be the best thing you ever heard.
 I have a highly regarded $7000 solid state amp that I just sold. (Don't want to name names.) It can't hold a candle to the WA5.


----------



## jerick70

leotis said:


> Even with the stock tubes it will probably be the best thing you ever heard.
> I have a highly regarded $7000 solid state amp that I just sold. (Don't want to name names.) It can't hold a candle to the WA5.




I have to agree. This is one of the best if not THE best headphone amp I've heard hands down.


----------



## davehg

watchdog507 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm posting on this thread to get some advice.  I'm in a dilemma where I am looking at a new WA5-LE V2 that I can get from an authorized dealer for a good price.  My challenge is whether I should consider a WA22 also.  I'm running a Brooklyn DAC with a Violectric 281 all balanced.  Phones are HEX's.  I'm keeping the V281.  I can use a balanced  cascade from the Violectric to the Woo. Most of the reviews and comparisons were of the old V1 WA5-LE's. I know that the WA5-LE V2 is single ended even though it uses balanced in and out. Should I wait to find a WA22 or will the WA5-LE V2 be a superior experience.  Space is not really a concern.​


 
 I currently own both Jerrik's upgraded WA22 and also an upgraded WA5 (not the LE version). I love them both for different reasons, but the WA5 is consistently the better sounding amp, with every headphone I've thrown at it. It just does "more" - more dynamic, more extended bass, more intimacy. And that is with relatively cheap tube components (using the Sophia Princess and mildly upgraded 300b's.) It makes the Hd650's sound amazing, and lights up the LCD3's in a way that is magic.
  
 The WA22 has its own treasures. I think it is a magical match for the HD650's when used with a balanced Headphone cable and a balanced source. And it clearly sounds better with a balanced digital source, plus tube rolling won't break the bank the way a WA5 can. Plus, for the price of a WA5 you can likely pack both the WA22 and a set of great phones like the LCD3.
  
 However, the WA22 is more finicky with both tubes and headphones - while the HD650's pairing is magic, the LCD3s sound just good but not spectacular the way they sound on the WA5. And it took a few different tube pairings to find something that was just right. The stock WA22 tubes really do need to be upgraded to get the best out of the amp.
  
 If cost is not a consideration and neither is space, jump on the WA5 LE. It is an amp to jump off the hi fi merry go round, and it will sound brilliant with any headphone you throw at it. I am not at all sorry I paid the extra $$ for it (2x what I paid for the WA22), plus it powers some small speakers quite well. If you can, get the upgraded version with the better caps and resistors, before spending money on the tube upgrades. I've heard a non-upgraded version and did notice that the upgraded internals added more nuance and detail.


----------



## phase0

I own the WA5. I've heard the WA22 a couple times. I would pick the WA5-LE, hopefully it has upgraded parts. I also have a V281. I didn't know I was going to spend so much on tubes or that there was that much difference when I got the WA5 (LOL). You can also take it long term and look at over a year or two you will get a pair of tubes here or there. I'm still running EML 300B and they're great. I'm also happy with Brimar for cheap rectifier tubes. I prefer the 6F8G type tubes over 6SN7 at this point, maybe even the cheap RCA and Raytheons, but definitely National Union 6C8G and TungSol Round Plate 6F8G.


----------



## thompsontechs

WA7 with the DAC HD800s happy camper! No tube rolling, built in DAC, plug in and close eyes. 
  
 JT


----------



## Leotis

phase0 said:


> I own the WA5. I've heard the WA22 a couple times. I would pick the WA5-LE, hopefully it has upgraded parts. I also have a V281. I didn't know I was going to spend so much on tubes or that there was that much difference when I got the WA5 (LOL). You can also take it long term and look at over a year or two you will get a pair of tubes here or there. I'm still running EML 300B and they're great. I'm also happy with Brimar for cheap rectifier tubes. I prefer the 6F8G type tubes over 6SN7 at this point, maybe even the cheap RCA and Raytheons, but definitely National Union 6C8G and TungSol Round Plate 6F8G.


 

 My understanding is that the Tung Sol 6F8G is internally the same as the Tung Sol 6SN7GT. Of course it has the cool coke bottle shape and it needs an adapter. I wonder how different it sounds if internally identical. I think it might not fit between the Takatsuki 300B. I tried the ECC31 and had about 1/16" clearance between tubes.


----------



## phase0

leotis said:


> My understanding is that the Tung Sol 6F8G is internally the same as the Tung Sol 6SN7GT. Of course it has the cool coke bottle shape and it needs an adapter. I wonder how different it sounds if internally identical. I think it might not fit between the Takatsuki 300B. I tried the ECC31 and had about 1/16" clearance between tubes.


 
  
 Yea supposedly they're the same or very close. The 6SN7 TSRPs have always cost more than I've been willing to pay at $400+ USD a pair range since I've been looking. The 6F8G are cheaper, at least most of the time if you can find them available for sale. I never considered if they would fit with the Taks. I have approx 1/8" of clearance with my EML 300B. I tried a few 6SN7s and there were some I didn't like that much, some were broken. I think I still have a cheap pair of RCAs but I got rid of most of my 6SN7s. I ended up with better success going the 6C/ and 6F/8G route. I also tried ECC35 and those are pretty good.


----------



## ru4music

watchdog507 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm posting on this thread to get some advice.  I'm in a dilemma where I am looking at a new WA5-LE V2 that I can get from an authorized dealer for a good price.  My challenge is whether I should consider a WA22 also.  I'm running a Brooklyn DAC with a Violectric 281 all balanced.  Phones are HEX's.  I'm keeping the V281.  I can use a balanced  cascade from the Violectric to the Woo. Most of the reviews and comparisons were of the old V1 WA5-LE's. I know that the WA5-LE V2 is single ended even though it uses balanced in and out. Should I wait to find a WA22 or will the WA5-LE V2 be a superior experience.  Space is not really a concern.


 

 A well designed amp with the best 6SN7 compatible drivers and 6080/6AS7/5998 compatible output tubes will NOT come close to the sound quality of a well designed 300B amp with entry level driver and output tubes: 300B (WA5-LE V2)  all-the-way!


----------



## jerick70

thompsontechs said:


> WA7 with the DAC HD800s happy camper! No tube rolling, built in DAC, plug in and close eyes.
> 
> JT




The WA7 is an outstanding amp/DAC combo. Got to love it. Not in the same league as the WA5 but is one of the best in its class.


----------



## thompsontechs

jerick70 said:


> The WA7 is an outstanding amp/DAC combo. Got to love it. Not in the same league as the WA5 but is one of the best in its class.


 
 On my budget it was the perfect choice. I wanted to keep it all under 3k, I got the tube supply and a used pair of HD800s. I have been spending more time than I care to admit going through all my old music with a silly grin on my face. I can only imagine, what the flagship stuff is like. I have a couple of pairs of HD600s for ten years or so and an old Wheatfield HA-1 the upgrade was well worth the couple days of silent treatment I got from the wife.  Truth be told it took a pearl necklace to get me out of the doghouse. lmao
  
 There was mention of matching earrings and bracelet for a trip top CanJam, I've never been and that is on the bucket list, but don't think I can swing to Singapore....


----------



## pofdstudios

I am considering purchase of a WA5 LE set up and was wondering what you folks that have the WA5 recommend for a DAC?


----------



## jerick70

pofdstudios said:


> I am considering purchase of a WA5 LE set up and was wondering what you folks that have the WA5 recommend for a DAC?




It depends on your sound signature tastes. I really like my MHDT Lab Atlantis with my WA5. What's your budget and what sound signature do you like?


----------



## pofdstudios

I prefer a wee bit warm over neutral and more dynamic than flat. I listen to stuff like Steely Dan and jazz ,jazz fusion as opposed to symphonies. Budget for a DAC is around 2k and would like something in the 24/352 range.


----------



## musicman59

watchdog507 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm posting on this thread to get some advice.  I'm in a dilemma where I am looking at a new WA5-LE V2 that I can get from an authorized dealer for a good price.  My challenge is whether I should consider a WA22 also.  I'm running a Brooklyn DAC with a Violectric 281 all balanced.  Phones are HEX's.  I'm keeping the V281.  I can use a balanced  cascade from the Violectric to the Woo. Most of the reviews and comparisons were of the old V1 WA5-LE's. I know that the WA5-LE V2 is single ended even though it uses balanced in and out. Should I wait to find a WA22 or will the WA5-LE V2 be a superior experience.  Space is not really a concern.


 
 Some years ago I was with the same dilemma...... 
 My systems are balanced from front end to speakers so I was partial to get a balanced amplifier. I met Jack in show and explained what i was looking for so he set me up to try the WA22. I was very happy with what I heard but then Jack asked me to listen to the WA5 and IMO it blew away the WA22 even being single ended. Jack mentioned that the WA5 or WA5-LE were better amps than the WA22 and it was confirm with what I heard so I changed my mind and ordered a WA5-LE with all the parts and tubes upgardes and then in addition to that all wiring used was NeoTech OCC Copper, all solder was Cardas Eutectic and the RCA sockets are WBT NextGen.


----------



## musicman59

pofdstudios said:


> I prefer a wee bit warm over neutral and more dynamic than flat. I listen to stuff like Steely Dan and jazz ,jazz fusion as opposed to symphonies. Budget for a DAC is around 2k and would like something in the 24/352 range.


 
 Get a Bricasti M1 SE. I have two of them (one feeding a WA5-LE) and totally love them.
  
 Ignore my recommendation. I did not see your budget limit.


----------



## jerick70

pofdstudios said:


> I prefer a wee bit warm over neutral and more dynamic than flat. I listen to stuff like Steely Dan and jazz ,jazz fusion as opposed to symphonies. Budget for a DAC is around 2k and would like something in the 24/352 range.


 
  
 The DAC I'm going to recommend is the Holo Audio Spring DAC.  This is in your budget and has the bit rate you want.  I've had my eye on the Holo for a little while.  It gets very good reviews on head-fi and elsewhere.  You can purchase it in 3 different levels.  The different levels have various component upgrades.  
  
 https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/810065/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac


----------



## Leotis

I use an Oppo 105. Has ESS Saber 32 DAC. Reference grade I believe. Plus it plays SACD and BlueRay. (has a HP amp also. Just OK)
 Not sure of max bit rate. Don't think the sound signature is considered "warm." Probably more like neutral. Sounds wonderful with my WA5. And only $1500.
 I think the WA5 power cord (using a Shunyata Phyton Alpha) and the tubes especially make all the difference. I'd take the extra $500 and start saving for some Takatsukis. YMMV.


----------



## Badas

leotis said:


> I use an Oppo 105. Has ESS Saber 32 DAC. Reference grade I believe. Plus it plays SACD and BlueRay. (has a HP amp also. Just OK)
> Not sure of max bit rate. Don't think the sound signature is considered "warm." Probably more like neutral. Sounds wonderful with my WA5. And only $1500.
> I think the WA5 power cord (using a Shunyata Phyton Alpha) and the tubes especially make all the difference. I'd take the extra $500 and start saving for some Takatsukis. YMMV.


 

 The Oppo 105 has the same DAC that is installed in the Oppo HA-1. I and other members wanted to take a hammer to that DAC. Very sparkly in the treble. It was the biggest improvement to my system ever achieved when I replaced that DAC.
  
 A lot better DAC can be found.


----------



## Leotis

Good to know. On the other hand the HA-1 amp probably had something to do with it. Probably sounds similar to the HP amp built into the Oppo 105 which doesn't sound great. Using the 2 channel analog output on the 105 bypasses that circuitry. 3 of the 4 Oppos I have were modified by ModWright to replace the  op amp gain stages in the 2 channel output with discrete circuits (whatever that means) I know the ESS Sabre 32 is highly regarded in general. And aside from the headphone output the Oppo is reputed to sound way better than it's price point.  I really do not like aggressive top end, and I'm pretty happy with what I hear. As mentioned YMMV.


----------



## pofdstudios

Would love something like a Chord Dave but without costing more than my Harley Davidson and the Science fiction looks.


----------



## Badas

leotis said:


> Good to know. On the other hand the HA-1 amp probably had something to do with it. Probably sounds similar to the HP amp built into the Oppo 105 which doesn't sound great. Using the 2 channel analog output on the 105 bypasses that circuitry. 3 of the 4 Oppos I have were modified by ModWright to replace the  op amp gain stages in the 2 channel output with discrete circuits (whatever that means) I know the ESS Sabre 32 is highly regarded in general. And aside from the headphone output the Oppo is reputed to sound way better than it's price point.  I really do not like aggressive top end, and I'm pretty happy with what I hear. As mentioned YMMV.


 

 I think the whole Oppo ESS Sabre setup was geared towards speakers. The Oppo HA-1 sounded great with speakers as a preamp.
 Speakers can get away with a sparkly treble and often it is preferred. The room itself will kill some treble detail.
 When it comes to HP's it entirely a different story.
  
 I used the Oppo DAC into the Woo WA22 and didn't like what I heard either. The same sparkly treble flowed to the WA22. So it wasn't the Oppo's amp. The Oppo HA-1 amp was actually very dull. I think on purpose to help balance the bright DAC.
  
 Picking a DAC for HP's is difficult. Also there is far less options.
 From all the DAC's I have heard this is how I would rank them (worst to best).
  
 Oppo HA-1, Cambridge DAC magic, Arcam irDAC, DAC inbuilt into the Sim Audio 230HA, Hegal HD30, Auralic Vega, Yaggy and Bricasti.
  
 The last 3 are all great with HP's and don't produce nasty treble for HP's.


----------



## Badas

pofdstudios said:


> Would love something like a Chord Dave but without costing more than my Harley Davidson and the Science fiction looks.


 

 Yeah! A Chord Dave would be nice.
  
 I would really like to give their 2Qute a go.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Get this Sony ES DAC/amp. Pairs nicely with WA22.
  
 Woo Audio is authorized Sony ES & Signature Series dealer. 
  
 http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/signature-series/TA-ZH1ES.php
  

  
*UPDATE*:
  
 A member PM me concerned about this post. I only said we sell it because Sony Signature Series products are limited to a hand full of authorized dealers in the U.S. and Woo is one of them. It would not be a good recommendation if the member can't find anywhere that sells it.
  
 In my personal and professional experience, you should not buy a DAC based on the chipset and its specs. Those things won't tell you if the DAC sounds good or not. I have personally used this Sony ES DAC/amp and compared it to others costing much more. We wouldn't make a recommendation on anything is it wasn't worth buying. Our reputation is at stake each time we make a recommendation.


----------



## Leotis

badas said:


> I think the whole Oppo ESS Sabre setup was geared towards speakers. The Oppo HA-1 sounded great with speakers as a preamp.
> Speakers can get away with a sparkly treble and often it is preferred. The room itself will kill some treble detail.
> When it comes to HP's it entirely a different story.
> 
> ...


 

 Good to know... but now you are going to possibly cost me some $$$. 
 I admit I don't have an extensive frame of reference for DACs.
 Still my setup seems to work. Maybe because the Tung Sol 6SN7GT doesn't seem to push the top end so much. I will admit that the Sylvania 6SN7GT is a little too bright with my rig.
 The Abyss headphones might have something to do with it also. They have such prodigious bass that maybe a more forward top end is somewhat balanced out.


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> Oppo HA-1, Cambridge DAC magic, Arcam irDAC, DAC inbuilt into the Sim Audio 230HA, Hegal HD30, Auralic Vega, Yaggy and Bricasti.
> 
> The last 3 are all great with HP's and don't produce nasty treble for HP's.


 
 I can vouch for the Auralic Vega.  It was my DAC paired with my WA5 for almost two years until I got the PS Directstream DAC.  I still have it but its just sitting around in it's box.


----------



## jerick70

You may want to look at Audio GD DACs too.


----------



## Badas

pippen99 said:


> I can vouch for the Auralic Vega.  It was my DAC paired with my WA5 for almost two years until I got the PS Directstream DAC.  I still have it but its just sitting around in it's box.




Someone should give you a offer for it. It is too good to leave in a box.


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> Someone should give you a offer for it. It is too good to leave in a box.


 
 I am open to offers.  Anything reasonable.


----------



## Leotis

pippen99 said:


> I can vouch for the Auralic Vega.  It was my DAC paired with my WA5 for almost two years until I got the PS Directstream DAC.  I still have it but its just sitting around in it's box.


 
  Auralic Vega also uses the ESS Saber 32 DAC, I guess they must do a better job with it.
 Seems like every time I talk to you people it ends up costing me money. :/


----------



## Badas

leotis said:


> Auralic Vega also uses the ESS Saber 32 DAC, I guess they must do a better job with it.
> Seems like every time I talk to you people it ends up costing me money. :/




Lots of manufacturers use ESS Saber 32 and they can sound vastly different. It's not the chipset it's how it is implemented that counts. 

Yeah! The $$'s thing is a problem.


----------



## phase0

pofdstudios said:


> I am considering purchase of a WA5 LE set up and was wondering what you folks that have the WA5 recommend for a DAC?


 
  
 I sold my Mytek Stereo 192 and got a Yggdrasil. It was a nice little upgrade. That's pretty much end game for me. That's all I have with personal ownership experience other than some older pro-audio stuff. I'm happy I dropped the Saber DAC based product and can't say enough good things about the Yggy. Torq's Life after the Yiggy thread seals it in my mind. I'll probably never care to take as much time to demo and compare stuff as that guy. Yggy definitely isn't the only game in town and people have their preferences, or preferred feature set/target use case etc. But it's solid and the best DAC I've spent a significant amount of time with.


----------



## Porteroso

If it was me, I'd get a schiit modi or gungir multibit (or just go to the yggy). Any of the schiit dacs outperform most dacs in their price ranges. And you can resell them for most of what you've paid. I would start there, and then audition other things. If they are really better, go for it. I don't want to sound like one of the plethora of schiit fanboys here, but their stuff is great value.
  
 That said, I have owned 3 dacs, all in the cheap price range. So my experience is very limited. But most people have tried very few dacs, and settle on whatever is in their price range. I think it's best to start with something pretty cheap, but great, and see if anything can beat it. Certainly that's what I'll be doing in the future.
  
 edit: oh, I have the mimby. I think it's great. Beats out the SMSL M8, which I also have, by far, in every category. Don't think you can do better for 250. I would start there, unless you have something that beats it. Get some sort of reference, and go from there. Mimby should be a good reference at the price.
  
 Back to Woo, still enjoying the WA6, with the copper cap, and right now I have NU 6F8G in. Saving all the 6C8G for the theoretical WA5 that I will one day have the money to buy. (not likely if I stay a musician)


----------



## Leotis

Auralic Vega vs Yggdrasil?


----------



## Leotis

leotis said:


> Auralic Vega vs Yggdrasil?


 

 Haha. Looks like I killed the thread.
 Wrong thread for this post anyway. Sorry about that.
 Went to the DAC forums and got some good info.
 Gonna go Yggdrasil. Can't hardly lose with either one.
 15 day like it or return it with Schiit seals the deal.


----------



## Badas

leotis said:


> Haha. Looks like I killed the thread.
> Wrong thread for this post anyway. Sorry about that.
> Went to the DAC forums and got some good info.
> Gonna go Yggdrasil. Can't hardly lose with either one.
> 15 day like it or return it with Schiit seals the deal.




I own the Auralic Vega and a friend owns the Yaggy. In my opinion the Yaggy just wins. I have a feeling that being the newer kid on the block it is just a bit better refined. However they are extremely close. Also doesn't help that the two DAC's are a few miles apart. 

You can't go wrong with either.


----------



## pippen99

badas said:


> I own the Auralic Vega and a friend owns the Yaggy. In my opinion the Yaggy just wins. I have a feeling that being the newer kid on the block it is just a bit better refined. However they are extremely close. Also doesn't help that the two DAC's are a few miles apart.
> 
> You can't go wrong with either.


 
 I fall on the other side. When I was auditioning I was lucky enough to have the Yggy and the Vega sitting side by side.  I found the Yggy to be somewhat bright and a little bit harsh compared to the Vega.  I bought the Vega and used it for two years.


----------



## Badas

pippen99 said:


> I fall on the other side. When I was auditioning I was lucky enough to have the Yggy and the Vega sitting side by side.  I found the Yggy to be somewhat bright and a little bit harsh compared to the Vega.  I bought the Vega and used it for two years.




Interesting. I do like the filters on the Vega. Just does micro adjustments to treble only. I found one filter that just rounded that last little edge to the treble without killing the detail. Of course others would like the other filters. Point is the filters allow that last bit of personal taste adjustment.

I have no desire to change DAC's. Things will have to take a giant leap in quality to make me change.


----------



## thompsontechs

Okay, I said I wasn't going to do the tube thing, but I just got the 2 NOS Matched Sylvania JHS 5814A    I like'em,    
  
 JT


----------



## Leotis

thompsontechs said:


> Okay, I said I wasn't going to do the tube thing, but I just got the 2 NOS Matched Sylvania JHS 5814A    I like'em,
> 
> JT


 

 It's a slippery slope my friend. 
 (Mullard CV4003 is my favorite 12AU7.)


----------



## jerick70

thompsontechs said:


> Okay, I said I wasn't going to do the tube thing, but I just got the 2 NOS Matched Sylvania JHS 5814A    I like'em,
> 
> JT


 
  
 My sympathies to your wallet.  It's a deep black hole my friend. Turn and run if you aren't totally sucked in just yet.....


----------



## Porteroso

Big moment for me. I've been listening to the copper cap for a long time now. Just put back in the Tung Sol 6F8G (been listening to NU 6C8G), and immediately, the detail jumped to another level. I was very impressed, and so, I thought, why not pop the U52 back in, and listen to music the way I did for so long. And guess what? A little less detail, but immediately, the warmth and beauty that I love was present, and oh, oh so obvious.
  
 I retract what I said about the copper caps. They do not beat out the high end rectifiers. Sure, you get better dynamics and detail with the copper caps, but the tube rectifiers give so much life to the music. And thinking about it, I will liken it to listening to a symphony in a room with sound dampened walls, which is the copper cap, and listening in a great hall, the U52. Obviously the TS driver/power tubes have something to do with it, but the point is, copper caps are great, but a bit lifeless and, well, they are not tubes. 
  
 I still think every single tube amp owner should have copper caps in his/her collection. They are great, beyond worth the money, but they do not breathe life into the music. For me, that life is worth a lot. It's worth losing a bit of detail, and tbh, as a violinist playing in major symphonies, I've always been intrigued by the fact that great audio can reveal detail that I've never heard out in the audience. Why is that? It's because this great equipment is not giving us a faithful reproduction of the music, it is amplifying the detail. Recordings are boosting the quiet moments, so dynamics are compressed. All good and well, but copper caps simply give too much of that. The U52 feels liquid, and musical, and lifelike, in a way that the copper cap could never dream of. Candle beside a sun.
  
 Anyways, that's my new take on it.


----------



## abvolt

Thanks for the opinion, I've not yet tried the webers but am going to soon..enjoy


----------



## abvolt

leotis said:


> It's a slippery slope my friend.
> (Mullard CV4003 is my favorite 12AU7.)


 
  
 I agree it's simply the best in sq very much a must try..


----------



## joseph69

abvolt said:


> Thanks for the opinion, I've not yet tried the webers but am going to soon..enjoy


 

 Did you get the UE-596?
 If so, are you enjoying it?


----------



## thompsontechs

leotis said:


> It's a slippery slope my friend.
> (Mullard CV4003 is my favorite 12AU7.)


 

 ~Grumbles~ , could have at least let me enjoy these for a few days before telling me I needed to listen to Mullards! Oh sure, you say "run," but then tell me the Mullards are the way to go.  Y'all are a bunch of enablers is what you are.  I don't suppose anyone has a pair they would be willing to let me test?  Not bloody likely for a 15 post newb like me I know. hehe
  
 You could help with a solid supplier, so I don't get burned....


----------



## Leotis

You don't need Mullards.
 Upscale is where I got mine. He charges more but you can count on getting good tubes.
 A few pages back in this thread I was influenced to get Mullard ECC31 (off eBay) for the 6SN7. Bought some beautiful tubes but they didn't work with the first set of adapters, so waited a second set of adapters from China and that didn't work either. So I sent tubes back.
 Still kinda heartbroken.
 See what I mean?
 You don't need Mullards.


----------



## abvolt

joseph69 said:


> Did you get the UE-596?
> If so, are you enjoying it?


 
 yes I did it is now one of my favorites..thanks


----------



## thompsontechs

leotis said:


> You don't need Mullards.
> Upscale is where I got mine. He charges more but you can count on getting good tubes.
> A few pages back in this thread I was influenced to get Mullard ECC31 (off eBay) for the 6SN7. Bought some beautiful tubes but they didn't work with the first set of adapters, so waited a second set of adapters from China and that didn't work either. So I sent tubes back.
> Still kinda heartbroken.
> ...


 

 I didn't know they needed an adapter for them....  That's good info and I will probably forgo that option for the time being. The setup I have now is very good compared to anything I ever had before and I am happy with it.
  
 Thanks for the info


----------



## Leotis

thompsontechs said:


> I didn't know they needed an adapter for them....  That's good info and I will probably forgo that option for the time being. The setup I have now is very good compared to anything I ever had before and I am happy with it.
> 
> Thanks for the info


 

 The CV4003 don't need an adapter to use as 12AU7.
 The ECC31 need an adapter to use as 6SN7.
 If you are happy with your new tubes that's all you need.
 Seems like every time I upgrade, at first I'm like "wow, awesome!"
 Then by the next day it is already sounding normal to me.
 Got to keep spending more and more to get that "holy cow!" moment.
 And you end up listening to your gear instead of your music.


----------



## thompsontechs

leotis said:


> The CV4003 don't need an adapter to use as 12AU7.
> The ECC31 need an adapter to use as 6SN7.
> If you are happy with your new tubes that's all you need.
> Seems like every time I upgrade, at first I'm like "wow, awesome!"
> ...


 

 I understand that... always chasing that high from the first hit...   It was a lifetime ago, but seems to be relevant.


----------



## Flisker

Hey guys,
  
   I have had Woo Audio WA2 for quite some time and I love it. Unfortunately it seems that my power tubes are dying, since I'm getting some ringing which comes and goes and is extremely irritating* so I'm looking for a replacement. Could you guys share some tips with me please *?
  
 ps: Right now, I've got 2399 Tung Sol/Chathams which from my research should be similar as 5998's. and for driver tubes I'm using Siemens CCa's which are absolutely wonderful.
  
 Thanks a lot, Flisker o/


----------



## kyle1010

hifiguy528 said:


> If WA5-LE v2 is within your budget, get it over WA22. The performance difference is HUGE, even at low level listening.




What about WA22-SE vs. WA5? Hmmmm?


----------



## abvolt

I'd be curious about the wa22-se if it's even going to be released..


----------



## kyle1010

abvolt said:


> I'd be curious about the wa22-se if it's even going to be released..




Right. What's with the teasing? I can't go WA5 due to its size, but WA22-SE looks like it'll work. Plus I don't have to break the bank buying 300b tubes. Can we get some specs from Woo yet? Sound impressions? Price? Anything?


----------



## abvolt

couldn't agree with you more that's why I went with the wa22 the cost of 300b tubes far too spendy for me..enjoy


----------



## kyle1010

abvolt said:


> couldn't agree with you more that's why I went with the wa22 the cost of 300b tubes far too spendy for me..enjoy




That, and if the WA22-SE ever gets released, we're already stocked up on compatible rectifiers and drivers. Rolling some non-300b power tubes shouldn't be too bad. I think they're 6BL7s or EL34s but idk. Either way, my holy grail tubed WA22 sounds otherworldly with the LCD-4s, but the extra power in the SE plus manageable footprint is definitely tempting.


----------



## joseph69

abvolt said:


> I'd be curious about the wa22-se if it's even going to be released..


 

 I thought I remember reading Woo was going to have a prototype a CJ Singapore (maybe NYC CJ too) I cant remember, but I've read nothing about the WA22-se on either thread?


----------



## Porteroso

There was a prototype at least at one show. Someone posted about it, and said they were not very impressed. Woo responded that they have more tweaking to do. No word that I've heard since then.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> There was a prototype at least at one show. Someone posted about it, and said they were not very impressed. Woo responded that they have more tweaking to do. No word that I've heard since then.


 

  
 I thought so, but really wasn't sure.
 I guess I missed the post as well. The WA22se was also supposed to be quite expensive compared to the WA22 if I remember correctly.


----------



## pervysage

Last I heard about the WA22-SE was that it is going to be at the upcoming CanJam Socal in April.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I thought so, but really wasn't sure.
> I guess I missed the post as well. The WA22se was also supposed to be quite expensive compared to the WA22 if I remember correctly.




Yes. Close to WA5 pricing.

Also you don't need it unless you have power hungry HP's. Normal WA22 is fine if power is not required. 
The new breed of HP's don't require that kind of power to sound great. The days of Audeze and Abyss power requirements are slowly disappearing. 

With my efficient HP's I don't get past the 12'O'Clock position on the volume dial. So a amp with even more power would be wasted.


----------



## joseph69

pervysage said:


> Last I heard about the WA22-SE was that it is going to be at the upcoming CanJam Socal in April.


 
 Finished product or prototype?
  


badas said:


> Yes. Close to WA5 pricing.
> 
> Also you don't need it unless you have power hungry HP's. Normal WA22 is fine if power is not required.
> The new breed of HP's don't require that kind of power to sound great. The days of Audeze and Abyss power requirements are slowly disappearing.
> ...


 
 I was going to mention the WA22se was close in price to the WA5 but I wasn't 100% sure because this was said a while ago.


----------



## Porteroso

Well, supposedly it's an upgrade in sound from the WA22, on the WA5 level. Basically a flagship balanced tube amp.


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> Well, supposedly it's an upgrade in sound from the WA22, on the WA5 level. Basically a flagship balanced tube amp.


 

 Looking forward to reading the reviews if/when it comes out.


----------



## abvolt

I'd sure like to know more about that amp also..


----------



## jerick70

> I was going to mention the WA22se was close in price to the WA5 but I wasn't 100% sure because this was said a while ago.




Last I heard cost is going to be in the $6,000 range. So close to the WA5 non-LE version.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I was going to mention the WA22se was close in price to the WA5 but I wasn't 100% sure because this was said a while ago.


 
 Last I heard cost is going to be in the $6,000 range. So close to the WA5 non-LE version.[/quote]


 $6000. What a joke. You can get a lot better amp for that.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I was going to mention the WA22se was close in price to the WA5 but I wasn't 100% sure because this was said a while ago.


 
 Last I heard cost is going to be in the $6,000 range. So close to the WA5 non-LE version.[/quote]


----------



## Porteroso

badas said:


> jerick70 said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to mention the WA22se was close in price to the WA5 but I wasn't 100% sure because this was said a while ago.
> ...


 

 $6000. What a joke. You can get a lot better amp for that.
 [/quote]

 I didn't know anyone had heard it. We will just have to see.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> Yes. Close to WA5 pricing.
> 
> Also you don't need it unless you have power hungry HP's. Normal WA22 is fine if power is not required.
> The new breed of HP's don't require that kind of power to sound great. The days of Audeze and Abyss power requirements are slowly disappearing.
> ...




I agree with you on the power requirements of headphones these days. But even though my LCD-4's sound marvelous at 12 O'clock on the WA22, It just feels like I'm missing something like they can do better with more power. At 200 ohms the WA22 just doesn't get their dynamics going at lower listening levels. At 12 O'clock they open up and get lively but by that point it's too loud for extended listening. Also more power should yield better control of that super thin driver. Does that make sense? That's why I wanna try out WA22-SE.

Somebody get @HiFiGuy528 over here with some details


----------



## jerick70

porteroso said:


> I didn't know anyone had heard it. We will just have to see.




I heard unflattering reviews from people that listened to the WA22SE last year at some headphone meets and Can-Jams. They said the WA5 was much better. That's most likely why it hasn't been released yet.


----------



## Porteroso

jerick70 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know anyone had heard it. We will just have to see.
> ...


 
 Yes, I mentioned that just a few posts ago. What I am talking about, is the fact that nobody has heard the WA22SE yet. Woo put together a prototype to show what it will look like, mostly to hype up the product. They are not finished designing it. So I don't think ridiculing its price is really all that valid, when nobody has heard anything other than an early prototype.


----------



## Krutsch

badas said:


> Yes. Close to WA5 pricing.
> 
> Also you don't need it unless you have power hungry HP's. Normal WA22 is fine if power is not required.
> The new breed of HP's don't require that kind of power to sound great. The days of Audeze and Abyss power requirements are slowly disappearing.
> ...


 
  
 With Sennheiser cans, I never break 12 o'clock with my WA3, unless I've been drinking and listening for hours on end; then maybe to 1-2 o'clock.


----------



## kyle1010

porteroso said:


> Yes, I mentioned that just a few posts ago. What I am talking about, is the fact that nobody has heard the WA22SE yet. Woo put together a prototype to show what it will look like, mostly to hype up the product. They are not finished designing it. So I don't think ridiculing its price is really all that valid, when nobody has heard anything other than an early prototype.




I'm eagerly awaiting a production version of it. Or at least some specs and impressions for starters. The thought of WA5 level performance in a smaller footprint is making my wallet tingle.


----------



## jerick70

kyle1010 said:


> I'm eagerly awaiting a production version of it. Or at least some specs and impressions for starters. The thought of WA5 level performance in a smaller footprint is making my wallet tingle.


 
  
 You do bring up a good point, the size of the WA5 is a little disconcerting.  I do have plenty of room for it though.  Just when I have to move it is when the problems start.


----------



## pippen99

jerick70 said:


> You do bring up a good point, the size of the WA5 is a little disconcerting.  I do have plenty of room for it though.  Just when I have to move it is when the problems start.


 
 Totally agree.  When I went from a horizontal presentation to a vertical setup I had to get a longer umbilical to make it work.  I should have done a little more measuring or more forethought before buying the rack I did.


----------



## watchdog507

I just got my WA5 today and it comes with a very short power umbilical. Fortunately I sourced a rack that is wide enough for side by side.  My preference is power on one rack and output on another rack.  I would get 3 feet. What did the umbilical cost?


----------



## pippen99

watchdog507 said:


> I just got my WA5 today and it comes with a very short power umbilical. Fortunately I sourced a rack that is wide enough for side by side.  My preference is power on one rack and output on another rack.  I would get 3 feet. What did the umbilical cost?


 
 My problem was finding a rack with enough clearance between the 2nd and 3rd shelf to accommodate the height of the WA5.  When I did find a rack that fit I did not think about the distance the umbilical would have to stretch.  The longest Woo offered to me was 18" shipped for $210.  It is barely long enough.  To get anything longer you would probably have to contact cable vendors for a custom build.


----------



## watchdog507

pippen99 said:


> My problem was finding a rack with enough clearance between the 2nd and 3rd shelf to accommodate the height of the WA5.  When I did find a rack that fit I did not think about the distance the umbilical would have to stretch.  The longest Woo offered to me was 18" shipped for $210.  It is barely long enough.  To get anything longer you would probably have to contact cable vendors for a custom build.


 
 I guess that Woo is telling us that they don't want a long cable for some reason.  I thought that I read somewhere, someone had Woo Craft a three foot cable.


----------



## qrtas

In case someone is interested, there a woo wa22 on Audiogon for $1695 US dollars.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tube-woo-audio-wa22-vacuum-tube-balanced-amplifier-amp-in-factory-box-2017-03-12-amplifiers-30329-atlanta-ga


----------



## isquirrel

pippen99 said:


> Some time ago a contributor to this thread was awaiting the arrival of a pair of the redesigned Elrog 300b and was going to report back.  I can't remember who it was or how long ago since I am old and retired.  I was considering them as back up or replacement for the SERP but no one seems to have any experience to share.  Anybody out there?


 

 It was me. I have absent from Head-Fi for a while.
  
 I have run a few pairs of the Elrog's and had issues with most of them. There was a lot of back and forth between the then manufacturers of the Elrog, myself and Jack Wu. There was various speculation about the bases and other issues of the tubes and Elrog countered that with a suggestion that my 234's were not specced to run the tube correctly (even though by then I had run up a few thousand or so hours of use with other 300B's with no issues).
  
 Fast forward, and I now am a Senior Contributing Editor for Mono and Stereo (sounds flash but I am just a scribe) so have access to more information.
  
 The company that started Elrog ran into financial difficulties last year and was purchased by Thomas Mayer from Vinyl Saviour. Thomas is a savvy operator and has built many amps around the Elrog tubes successfully. He has been in contact with me recently and if you go to his site (Vinyl Saviour) and read his blog you will see he has completely re organised the manufacturing process of the Elrog Tubes. There were a number of issues which contributed to their earlier failures. Production has now restarted of the tubes and I have a set of the new production Tubes on the way. On my end my system has changed a fair bit so I eagerly wait to try out the new Elrog 300B's. 
  
 I will say this: What was so frustrating is that the Tubes sounded bloody marvellous, its just that the reliability was not there. Thomas tells me that not only has the reliability issues been sorted out but the the sound has been improved a lot. 
  
 This is all music to my ears and hopefully to anyone else that got to sample the old Elrog's. We need more new production Tubes. When I receive my set and they have some time on them I will report on their progress.
  
 I am currently running a set of the new KR HP Tubes, the 300B Balloon's and the 274B's. I am at 350 hours and they replaced the Takatsuki 300B's and 274B's which were running in the amp before then. I am more than impressed by the sound quality of the KR's - I draw special attention to the fact they are the new HP versions. These were designed in unison with Joe Skubinski of JPS Labs - Abyss fame and I am told specially tuned for Headphone use. What ever the result is outstanding and I have no issue recommending them wholeheartedly and yes I paid full freight for my pair as I have the Elrog's.
  
 Due to the construction and materials of the Elrog's, they require careful handling. My current plan is to run them with either Takatsuki 274B or KR 274B rectifiers.
  
 I believe Woo Audio sell the KR HP Tubes. Just make sure you get the HP versions, they have a white base.
  
 Photos below.


----------



## kyle1010

jerick70 said:


> You do bring up a good point, the size of the WA5 is a little disconcerting.  I do have plenty of room for it though.  Just when I have to move it is when the problems start.




I do all my listening in bed so the whole system has to fit on a nightstand like it currently does. With the WA22-SE I'll probably have to find a slightly bigger nightstand but that's no big deal compared to how much room the WA5 takes up.


Edit: Disregard my Mojo as DAC back there in the pic lol, it's getting replaced by a Hugo 2 next month.


----------



## ru4music

isquirrel said:


> It was me. I have absent from Head-Fi for a while.
> 
> I have run a few pairs of the Elrog's and had issues with most of them. There was a lot of back and forth between the then manufacturers of the Elrog, myself and Jack Wu. There was various speculation about the bases and other issues of the tubes and Elrog countered that with a suggestion that my 234's were not specced to run the tube correctly (even though by then I had run up a few thousand or so hours of use with other 300B's with no issues).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great INFO, thanks for sharing!  I'll be curious (critical analysis) going forward of the 300B and 45, EL3N etc. ... love this syndrome!


----------



## jerick70

isquirrel said:


> It was me. I have absent from Head-Fi for a while.
> 
> I have run a few pairs of the Elrog's and had issues with most of them. There was a lot of back and forth between the then manufacturers of the Elrog, myself and Jack Wu. There was various speculation about the bases and other issues of the tubes and Elrog countered that with a suggestion that my 234's were not specced to run the tube correctly (even though by then I had run up a few thousand or so hours of use with other 300B's with no issues).
> 
> ...


 
  
@isquirrel how does the WA234 compare to the WA5?  I LOVE the aesthetics of the WA234.  You have a beautiful setup.


----------



## watchdog507

watchdog507 said:


> I guess that Woo is telling us that they don't want a long cable for some reason.  I thought that I read somewhere, someone had Woo Craft a three foot cable.


 
 Stefan Audio does a custom umbilical but the price is high.
  
 http://www.stefanaudioart.com/shop/endorphin-high-end-umbilical-power-cable-for-the-woo-audio-wa5-le/


----------



## Leotis

Anyone heard that umbilical?
 They claim pretty dramatic improvement.
 Is it true???


----------



## watchdog507

leotis said:


> Anyone heard that umbilical?
> They claim pretty dramatic improvement.
> Is it true???


 
 If I bought this cable it would be for convenience.  Any sonic benefits would be welcome, not expected. This is audio and there are all sorts of claims about dramatic improvements.  A the end of the day the only dramatic thing that I could be assured of is the difference in my bank account.


----------



## Porteroso

watchdog507 said:


> leotis said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone heard that umbilical?
> ...


 
 Great attitude to have I think. Really easy to write some words on a website, but if you read what they wrote, towards the end they basically admit that they are claiming huge improvements if the manufacturer gave you a poorly constructed power cable to begin with. I've never read complaints of Woo's WA5 umbilical, so I doubt that if pressed, they'd keep their "drastic improvement" line up.
  
 Mainly, people want your money. If you start from there, you can save a lot of money. If you start from "I bet cables can improve my experience a lot," look out bank account. (terrible rhyme I know)


----------



## isquirrel

jerick70 said:


> @isquirrel how does the WA234 compare to the WA5?  I LOVE the aesthetics of the WA234.  You have a beautiful setup.


 

 Thank you. I have never owned a WA5 so probably not the best person to ask as I have never owned a set of WA5's.
  
 Having said that.... Two Audiophile friends of mine have had both at some stage and then subsequently sold the WA5. So I have been able to have a pretty good listen. The 234's on average tubes (Shu Guang) $45 Tube, sound better than the WA5's fitted with in one case with Takatsuki 300B's and 274B's, the WA5 had EML 45 Plate Tubes ( one of my favourite tubes) and a EML 5U4G Rectifier.
  
 To my eagle eye'd friends (Ken, Tony, Dono, Fririce0003) on this site who know my system well, will spot a difference on the 234's. Unfortunately I can't say anything else. Throughout the past few years The 234's have been the bedrock of my system. The 234's deserve a complete article all to themselves. However in the mean time if you have any further questions probably better to send them via PM.
  
 A very good friend of mine (Fririce0003) has his for sale ATM as he is going to a 2 channel system.He is is an OCD type of guy and is one of the only people I have zero problems lending him stuff. His 234's are as new.
  
 Send me a PM so I can go into the 234's in more details.


----------



## phase0

> Originally Posted by *isquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I am currently running a set of the new KR HP Tubes, the 300B Balloon's and the 274B's. I am at 350 hours and they replaced the Takatsuki 300B's and 274B's which were running in the amp before then. I am more than impressed by the sound quality of the KR's - I draw special attention to the fact they are the new HP versions. These were designed in unison with Joe Skubinski of JPS Labs - Abyss fame and I am told specially tuned for Headphone use. What ever the result is outstanding and I have no issue recommending them wholeheartedly and yes I paid full freight for my pair as I have the Elrog's.
> 
> I believe Woo Audio sell the KR HP Tubes. Just make sure you get the HP versions, they have a white base.


 
  
 I was looking at the pix of these KR 300B vs my EML 300B. I was wondering if you or anyone else knows if they will fit with enough space in the WA5 paired with 6F8Gs? I don't have a ton of clearance with the EMLs and the KR look like they may angle out more than them. Someone mentioned they weren't sure if the Tak 300Bs would fit either. That got me worrying. LOL. I suppose worst case I can just use a 300B socket saver which would likely do the trick. I'm probably going to hold off on buying for a while but I am thinking about upgrading the 300Bs sometime this year, either TAK, Elrog, or KRs since you say they're great.


----------



## isquirrel

phase0 said:


> I was looking at the pix of these KR 300B vs my EML 300B. I was wondering if you or anyone else knows if they will fit with enough space in the WA5 paired with 6F8Gs? I don't have a ton of clearance with the EMLs and the KR look like they may angle out more than them. Someone mentioned they weren't sure if the Tak 300Bs would fit either. That got me worrying. LOL. I suppose worst case I can just use a 300B socket saver which would likely do the trick. I'm probably going to hold off on buying for a while but I am thinking about upgrading the 300Bs sometime this year, either TAK, Elrog, or KRs since you say they're great.


 

 Best people to ask are Woo Audio themselves.
  
 +1 (872) 222-9667


----------



## monkkx

isquirrel said:


> It was me. I have absent from Head-Fi for a while.
> 
> I have run a few pairs of the Elrog's and had issues with most of them. There was a lot of back and forth between the then manufacturers of the Elrog, myself and Jack Wu. There was various speculation about the bases and other issues of the tubes and Elrog countered that with a suggestion that my 234's were not specced to run the tube correctly (even though by then I had run up a few thousand or so hours of use with other 300B's with no issues).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello,
 how would you compare the KR HP Tubes versus the Takatsuki?


----------



## isquirrel

Some more information on the new the production Elrog 300B's including a series of build videos !
  
 https://youtu.be/8FHlrlvXZ8Y
  
 Link to more build information.
  
 http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/news-from-elrog-tube-factory-4.html
  
  
  
https://youtu.be/8FHlrlvXZ8Y​


----------



## Contrails

Has anyone upgraded WA22 transformers ? Thinking of getting my WA22 upgraded, transformers & caps.  I am already running some decent tubes so that's the best I am gonna get out of it.  I love the looks of the amp and would rather keep the chassis and upgrade the insides.  I am based in New Zealand though, so I might have to order the parts and get some to install them locally.


----------



## JoeDoe

Hey there Woo warriors,
  
 I've recently posted a review of my WA8 Eclipse here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/wooaudio-wa8-eclipse/reviews/18231 and just wanted to jump on the Woo hype a train a bit.
  
 I've owned a stock and a Maxxxed WA6 as well as a stock and highly-modded WA6SE before, and the Eclipse impresses at the same level that those did, and then some! To be honest, the WA8 is my last stop on the head-fi carousel and I'm very happy that it's an American assembled product from one of my favorite companies and designers.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Has anyone upgraded WA22 transformers ? Thinking of getting my WA22 upgraded, transformers & caps.  I am already running some decent tubes so that's the best I am gonna get out of it.  I love the looks of the amp and would rather keep the chassis and upgrade the insides.  I am based in New Zealand though, so I might have to order the parts and get some to install them locally.


 

 I was thinking of getting my transformers dipped. Which reduces transformer hum and lowers the noise level. There is a guy locally that provides the service. Takes forever tho (months) and at the moment my amp is performing wonderfully.


----------



## jerick70

joedoe said:


> Hey there Woo warriors,
> 
> I've recently posted a review of my WA8 Eclipse here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/wooaudio-wa8-eclipse/reviews/18231 and just wanted to jump on the Woo hype a train a bit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats @JoeDoe.  That's great that you have found your endgame!  I was going to send you a PM in the next few days to ask you how you've been liking the WA8.  You're review answers some of my questions.  How does the WA8 compare to the WA7 sonically?


----------



## JoeDoe

jerick70 said:


> Congrats @JoeDoe
> .  That's great that you have found your endgame!  I was going to send you a PM in the next few days to ask you how you've been liking the WA8.  You're review answers some of my questions.  How does the WA8 compare to the WA7 sonically?




I've not heard the WA7 2nd gen, but with regards to the WA8, it's a step up over the WA7 in every way imho. Smaller footprint, more refined sound, and very comparable power. I know the WA7 has much more juice on paper but the WA8 drives my ZMF Oris as well as the WA7 did my Peterek T50s at 5 on the volume dial.

I suppose the WA7 has he leg up with tube rolling by for me, that's hardly a deal breaker.


----------



## Contrails

Hi Badas,

I got a reply from another member about upgrading to Lundahl Transformers. Unfortunately, they won't fit in the transformer housing box. An absolute shame. I seem to be getting the hum when I operate the Wa22 in preamp mode and only when the volume goes past half way. 

Hope you are doing well.


----------



## jerick70

joedoe said:


> I've not heard the WA7 2nd gen, but with regards to the WA8, it's a step up over the WA7 in every way imho. Smaller footprint, more refined sound, and very comparable power. I know the WA7 has much more juice on paper but the WA8 drives my ZMF Oris as well as the WA7 did my Peterek T50s at 5 on the volume dial.
> 
> I suppose the WA7 has he leg up with tube rolling by for me, that's hardly a deal breaker.


 
  
 Now I don't know what to do about my work rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have a WA7 that I use for work but hate leaving it when I'm not there.  I'm in the middle of testing out portable components to see if they will suffice but I have been underwhelmed.  I need to get my hands on a WA8 and test it.  It would be nice to have a transportable AMP/DAC like the WA8.  Hmmmm.....


----------



## JoeDoe

jerick70 said:


> Now I don't know what to do about my work rig.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well from an SQ standpoint, I wouldn't say things are night and day better or worse, but the WA8 definitely has a leg up on portability. 
  
 You probably just need both...


----------



## davehg

contrails said:


> Hi Badas,
> 
> I got a reply from another member about upgrading to Lundahl Transformers. Unfortunately, they won't fit in the transformer housing box. An absolute shame. I seem to be getting the hum when I operate the Wa22 in preamp mode and only when the volume goes past half way.
> 
> Hope you are doing well.




Would a transformer and cap mod be more cost effective than upgrading to a WA5? I have doubts, and I own Jerick's WA22 which had upgraded Jupiter caps, as well as a WA5 which has the premium Black Gate and VCap options. Both sound wonderful, but the WA5 is better. The cap upgrade on the WA22 was like $425 and I have to believe the transformers would be double that, putting you well into WA5 used territory. Can't see that you'd ever get that investment back either.


----------



## Contrails

> Would a transformer and cap mod be more cost effective than upgrading to a WA5? I have doubts, and I own Jerick's WA22 which had upgraded Jupiter caps, as well as a WA5 which has the premium Black Gate and VCap options. Both sound wonderful, but the WA5 is better. The cap upgrade on the WA22 was like $425 and I have to believe the transformers would be double that, putting you well into WA5 used territory. Can't see that you'd ever get that investment back either.


 
  
 You make a very good point.  But getting a WA5 would require me to start hunting for completely different tubes.  And for the price of a WA5, I would rather pull the trigger on a Glenn 300B amp.


----------



## Rossliew

contrails said:


> You make a very good point.  But getting a WA5 would require me to start hunting for completely different tubes.  And for the price of a WA5, I would rather pull the trigger on a Glenn 300B amp.




And you can't go wrong with the Glenn 300B  Alternatively his new EL3N amp is a stormer too with much less expensive tubes used yet sounding no less inferior.


----------



## watchdog507

I'm slowly tweaking my new WA5-LE and I've installed Gold Lion 300B's and Northern Electric 6SN7.s and running Brimar 5Z4G Rectifiers .  The NE 6SN7's are probably rebranded Sophia Electric 6SN7's.  They look identical. They also sound great.  Better than the NOS JAN GE 6SN7's I had in there before.  I'm looking at the Sophia 300B Carbon + and I'm wondering if these are a drop in for 300B tubes or if 300B/c+ needs an adaptation to the circuitry. In that case I'm not interested.


----------



## musicman59

watchdog507 said:


> I'm slowly tweaking my new WA5-LE and I've installed Gold Lion 300B's and Northern Electric 6SN7.s and running Brimar 5Z4G Rectifiers .  The NE 6SN7's are probably rebranded Sophia Electric 6SN7's.  They look identical. They also sound great.  Better than the NOS JAN GE 6SN7's I had in there before.  I'm looking at the Sophia 300B Carbon + and I'm wondering if these are a drop in for 300B tubes or if 300B/c+ needs an adaptation to the circuitry. In that case I'm not interested.


 
 You should take a look at the new KR 300b HP. I ma thinking on getting a pair of the globe style.


----------



## watchdog507

I received an answer from Sophia directly. The Carbon + is the equivalent of 2 x 300B tubes. So it's a no go. KR tubes are interesting but they seem to have a high failure rate based on some quick searches.


----------



## 2359glenn

I have a pair of KR 300B globes that are almost a year old now and they are used atleast 5hrs a day in my speaker amps.
 Longer on weekends. With no problems


----------



## watchdog507

2359glenn said:


> I have a pair of KR 300B globes that are almost a year old now and they are used atleast 5hrs a day in my speaker amps.
> Longer on weekends. With no problems


 
 That's a positive comment.  I'll definitely look into them.


----------



## leftside

I'm also using a KR tube in my DAC (KR 5U4G anniversary version Lampizator rectifier tube). Nice to be able to use a new production rectifier tube. I'd like to try the KR 300B globes when I get a 300B tube headphone amp.


----------



## abvolt

Wow very cool looking dac dude love it..enjoy


----------



## davehg

Rainy Saturdays are not so bad if you have a Woo.


----------



## watchdog507

Rainy day here. I get an hour before I have friends over.


----------



## davehg

I have to listen to a Violetric 281 one of these days.


----------



## jerick70

davehg said:


> I have to listen to a Violetric 281 one of these days.


 
  
 I haven't heard the V281 but I owned the V200 and it was very nice for a SS amp.


----------



## abvolt

Everyday is a good day to listen to a Woo amp they have simply put an amazing sound quality to them..enjoy


----------



## fhuang

It sure feel better after a tough day/time


----------



## fhuang

musicman59 said:


> You should take a look at the new KR 300b HP. I ma thinking on getting a pair of the globe style.





Had my pair for a few years, thinking 4 years, and no problem. I haven't been using them or wa5 so much the past couple years thought


----------



## watchdog507

davehg said:


> I have to listen to a Violetric 281 one of these days.


 
 The V281 is a great amp.  If your source is good, your output to the headphones will be spectacular.  It's probably the best SS Amp I've heard.  I own a Woo WA5-LE because of the sound signature. I also like to tinker with the tubes, so it's a work in progress.  But both hold their own in very different ways


----------



## pervysage

Wonder if the WA22-SE prototype ended up being ready to make a showing at CanJam SoCal next weekend?


----------



## Badas

davehg said:


> I have to listen to a Violetric 281 one of these days.


 

 I just can't get my Woo WA22 to beat my V281. No matter what I do. Or what tubes are installed.
  
 V281 has it beat in every way.
  
 WA5 might be a different story.
 I have heard a WA5 with extremely good tubes installed (Tak 300B, Tak 274B and C3g drivers) next to a V281. In that session I thought the V281 had the WA5 beat.
  
 If there is one piece of equipment that I wouldn't miss or would get kicked to the curb because it wasn't required/performing it would be the Woo WA22.
 Everything else in my rack I find very valuable.
  

  
 The only reason I don't is that it is tubes and is a bit nostalgic.


----------



## watchdog507

I hear you about the V281 and Woo comparison.  My situation is a WA5-LE that was not keeping up to the V281.   Now after many cable tweaks and tube revisions plus a major amount of break-in time I'm hearing the results.  The WA5-LE is truly on another level.  I have details and punch, just where I want to be.   It will only get better.  I have new tubes that are unique and special coming next week.  EML 520B V3 to be specific.  Woo approved 300B replacement and some new rectifiers.I'll post performance results as they are available.
 Quote: 





badas said:


> I just can't get my Woo WA22 to beat my V281. No matter what I do. Or what tubes are installed.
> 
> V281 has it beat in every way.
> 
> ...


 
 I have listened to both side by side and my conclusions are similar but different.  The V281 has a very lean and highly detailed presentation.  It's very accurate and truthful to the source.  I hear the shimmer of cymbals, which are one of my tests for accuracy.  The WA5-LE has a richness to the bottom and midrange that I just adore.  However, I'm not running cost no object tubes.  I've got Gold Lion 300B's, Northern Electric 6SN7's, and Brimar 5Z4G as rectifiers.  I am missing the extremely detailed upper frequencies that I get on the V281.  I'm working on some different tubes and I'll see what they have to offer once I get them.  I had the same results on my WA6 when I had it and it ultimately led me to sell it.  I preferred the V281 to the WA6 by a long shot.  Granted the V281 cost more.  But after spending as much on tubes as the WA6 cost, I still wasn't pleased with the results. Right now the WA5-LE isn't getting kicked to the curb.  I still love it! Let's call it a work in progress.


----------



## 3083joe

badas said:


> I just can't get my Woo WA22 to beat my V281. No matter what I do. Or what tubes are installed.
> 
> V281 has it beat in every way.
> 
> ...



That's way I switched. 



And with the cartridge I'm a happy man!


----------



## OldSkool

Sorry for the "stupid question of the year". Has anyone found a DAC that's the same size as the WA2, for stackable purposes?


----------



## jerick70

oldskool said:


> Sorry for the "stupid question of the year". Has anyone found a DAC that's the same size as the WA2, for stackable purposes?


 
  
 I don't know the dimensions off the top of my head but I would think that the Schiit Yggy or Kitsune Spring DAC would hold the WA22? Maybe even the Schitt Gungnir would work.  You can look up the dimensions on each of their websites.


----------



## OldSkool

jerick70 said:


> I don't know the dimensions off the top of my head but I would think that the Schiit Yggy or Kitsune Spring DAC would hold the WA22? Maybe even the Schitt Gungnir would work.  You can look up the dimensions on each of their websites.


 

 Yggy and Gungnir are both too long. Hoping to find one that is the same size as WA2 and looks good stacked. I'm not familiar with the Kitsune but will look it up, thanks.
  
 And yes...I know that the DAC sound quality is what ultimately matters.


----------



## JoeDoe

oldskool said:


> Sorry for the "stupid question of the year". Has anyone found a DAC that's the same size as the WA2, for stackable purposes?




Look up the Teac UD-501 or 503. I think they're close.


----------



## pippen99

DQuote: 





oldskool said:


> Yggy and Gungnir are both too long. Hoping to find one that is the same size as WA2 and looks good stacked. I'm not familiar with the Kitsune but will look it up, thanks.
> 
> And yes...I know that the DAC sound quality is what ultimately matters.


 
 The Holo Spring is approximately 17W by 11D.  The pictures I have seen show the DAC in black with copper sides so if your WA2 is silver that might not work.  The Auralic Vega is 11W by 9D so the exact same depth but 2 inches narrower 1in on each side.  My Vega is on Ebay right now(the one with bidding).
  
 Edit: The Vega is silver


----------



## jsjs13

I am a new owner of a Woo WA6. I would like to try out the Weber copper cap before shelling out some serious dough on the exotic rectifier tubes I have read about on the forums. Does anyone else have some experience with using the copper caps?


----------



## joseph69

jsjs13 said:


> I am a new owner of a Woo WA6. I would like to try out the Weber copper cap before shelling out some serious dough on the exotic rectifier tubes I have read about on the forums. Does anyone else have some experience with using the copper caps?


 

 Congratulations on your WA6.
 No need to spend serious dough on a good rectifier tube. 
 Try this tube, it's exceptional for its price/performance ratio.
Brimar 5Z4GY


----------



## JoeDoe

jsjs13 said:


> I am a new owner of a Woo WA6. I would like to try out the Weber copper cap before shelling out some serious dough on the exotic rectifier tubes I have read about on the forums. Does anyone else have some experience with using the copper caps?



Agreed with the above! Also, you were right to think about the copper cap. It's a great solution that does not cost an arm and a leg, not to mention it'll never burn out. And alternative that is not crazy expensive is the GZ34. A NOS one usually can be found for under $75.


----------



## Leotis

Hey Guys,
 A while back someone was asking about a DAC for their WA5.
 A variety of suggestions were offered including Yggdrasil, which I decided to try.
 Long story short, I prefer my solid state mod ModWright Oppo 95.
 I had suggested Oppo on the original thread and was told that Oppo DAC sucks.
 I guess the difference here is that Dan Wright does a real nice job with the Oppo analog output.
 It is true that I likely haven't given the Yggy enough time to stabilize, and I expect it to continue to smooth out.
 Never the less I decided to sell the Yggy for a pretty good price.
 Anyone interested can PM me.
 PS. I hope it is OK to post this kind of message here.
 If not lemme know and I will delete.
 Thanks.


----------



## watchdog507

leotis said:


> Hey Guys,
> A while back someone was asking about a DAC for their WA5.
> A variety of suggestions were offered including Yggdrasil, which I decided to try.
> Long story short, I prefer my solid state mod ModWright Oppo 95.
> ...


 
 I have a WA5-LE and I'm running a Mytek Brooklyn.  I couldn't be happier at the price point and performance.  The others that I considered were An AuraliC or a PS Audio.  The Brooklyn can drive a headphone, decode PCM, DSD and native MQA and it has a built in Phono Amp.  Very versatile.


----------



## Leotis

Only got it 2 days ago. Obviously hasn't had enough time to break in properly. Seems to be sounding progressively better.
 Guess I should give it a couple more days to form an opinion. I tend to be impatient that way.


----------



## leftside

I purchased a Lampizator Atlantic DAC this year and for the first time in my life I find myself listening to a DAC more than my vinyl setup.


----------



## musicman59

Hi guys,
My black WA5-LE v1 will go for sale tomorrow. It was costume made. Not only have the Teflon sockets and electronic parts upgrade it also have WBT Nextgen RCA sockets and all the internal wiring was done with Neotech OCC Cppoer wire and Cardas Eutectic solder. Will come with stock and upgraded tubes.

Look for the ad or send me a PM if interested. 
Thanks.


----------



## Leotis

musicman59 said:


> Hi guys,
> My black WA5-LE v1 will go for sale tomorrow. It was costume made. Not only have the Teflon sockets and electronic parts upgrade it also have WBT Nextgen RCA sockets and all the internal wiring was done with Neotech OCC Cppoer wire and Cardas Eutectic solder. Will come with stock and upgraded tubes.
> 
> Look for the ad or send me a PM if interested.
> Thanks.


 

 What amp in your inventory do you prefer over the Woo?


----------



## thompsontechs

Tell you what guys... I love my WA7D, but the LD 6+ with the V800 just rocks my world and really took the HD800s to another level... stock tubes and less than 50hrs and I am stunned. I'm not selling the Woo, but.....


----------



## musicman59

leotis said:


> What amp in your inventory do you prefer over the Woo?



My 3 main amps are very competitive (Well Audio Enigma upgraded, McIntosh MHA100 and the WA5-LE) is just that I wanted to try something different and just got a custom made 300b amp.


----------



## elvanjeonlee

Hi guys, i just bought WA7 Fireflies 2nd gen with tube power supply, curious about what it sound when coupled with Audeze LCD 4.. anyone has experienced it ? mind to share some thoughts.


----------



## kyle1010

elvanjeonlee said:


> Hi guys, i just bought WA7 Fireflies 2nd gen with tube power supply, curious about what it sound when coupled with Audeze LCD 4.. anyone has experienced it ? mind to share some thoughts.




I have both. Umm, my WA7tp CAN power the LCD-4s but not to very good volume or dynamics. My WA22 does a way better job at halfway on the volume knob, but higher gain power tubes were needed and I still think the 4s can do more with an even beefier amp. I'm satisfied for now, but in a nutshell 4s need a lot of power to sound their best and the WA7 sounds nice but isn't nearly enough to produce the sound you paid for with the 4s.


----------



## abvolt

elvanjeonlee said:


> Hi guys, i just bought WA7 Fireflies 2nd gen with tube power supply, curious about what it sound when coupled with Audeze LCD 4.. anyone has experienced it ? mind to share some thoughts.


 
 Can't say anything about the 4's but my 3's were awesome sounding..enjoy


----------



## pervysage

Apparently there's a WA33 in the works now?


----------



## Porteroso

I assume it is a typo.


----------



## jerico

My WA22 is acting up - looks like it needs to go back to the mothership for inspection/repair. It blew 2 fuses over the last week, as well as a rectifier. And the power knob no longer functions on the left-most position - the amp remains powered on when the dial is turned all the way to the left. I swapped out all tubes for fresh ones (Shuguang Treasure CV181, Sophia Pricncess, GE 6080). Bummer.


----------



## kyle1010

pervysage said:


> Apparently there's a WA33 in the works now?




Ha! That's actually me (a92101kid) that they answered that question for on instagram. And yeah it's true, WA33 coming in hot for CanJam this weekend. It's also talked about in Jude's CanJam SoCal 2017 preview video that came out today so it's definitely a real thing. Thoughts? 2A3, 6C45, and 274b tubes...interesting..

If it's cool with them I'll take a bunch of pics of it when I get there and share em with you guys, as well as specs and impressions with my LCD-4s. Deal?


----------



## pervysage

kyle1010 said:


> Ha! That's actually me (a92101kid) that they answered that question for on instagram. And yeah it's true, WA33 coming in hot for CanJam this weekend. It's also talked about in Jude's CanJam SoCal 2017 preview video that came out today so it's definitely a real thing. Thoughts? 2A3, 6C45, and 274b tubes...interesting..
> 
> If it's cool with them I'll take a bunch of pics of it when I get there and share em with you guys, as well as specs and impressions with my LCD-4s. Deal?




Sounds good to me! Look forward to your impressions! 

I wonder if this means that the WA22-SE has been scrapped in favor of this new WA33? Or will they both be coming out eventually?


----------



## jerick70

pervysage said:


> Sounds good to me! Look forward to your impressions!
> 
> I wonder if this means that the WA22-SE has been scrapped in favor of this new WA33? Or will they both be coming out eventually?




Yes I think the the WA22SE was renamed the WA33. I'm not aware of another amp that Woo was working on. The pics look similar to the WA22SE prototype too.


----------



## kyle1010

jerick70 said:


> Yes I think the the WA22SE was renamed the WA33. I'm not aware of another amp that Woo was working on. The pics look similar to the WA22SE prototype too.



Not sure about that. The knob layout was different on WA22-SE prototype, and that design was a 2pc stack of power supply and amp. WA33 looks like an all-in-one design. I'll clear all this up for you guys at CanJam this weekend though


----------



## abvolt

kyle1010 said:


> Not sure about that. The knob layout was different on WA22-SE prototype, and that design was a 2pc stack of power supply and amp. WA33 looks like an all-in-one design. I'll clear all this up for you guys at CanJam this weekend though


 
 I'm looking forward to knowing as well..thanks


----------



## pervysage

kyle1010 said:


> Not sure about that. The knob layout was different on WA22-SE prototype, and that design was a 2pc stack of power supply and amp. WA33 looks like an all-in-one design. I'll clear all this up for you guys at CanJam this weekend though


 
  
 Yes, definitely a lot different than the WA22SE prototype we had seen. Single chassis (from what I can tell from the pics at least), different knobs, different tubes.


----------



## phase0

Those who get a chance to listen please post your impressions


----------



## kyle1010

phase0 said:


> Those who get a chance to listen please post your impressions



Oh I will


----------



## MIKELAP

WA33- $8,000.00   http://wooaudio.com/products/wa33.html


----------



## jerick70

mikelap said:


> WA33- $8,000.00   http://wooaudio.com/products/wa33.html


 
  
 Holy shnikies Batman!!!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Even more than they were quoting when they were showing the prototype.  It looks beautiful.


----------



## pofdstudios

Nice looking amp BUT 8000.00 is a little steep for me.


----------



## pervysage

Sheesh, that price is a lot higher than I thought it would be. I can understand the price increase (from what they had estimated previously) IF it comes stock with those KR Audio & Takatsuki tubes as they cost a pretty penny.


----------



## reeltime

It's their new flagship, so says the Facebook ad. Will give it a listen this weekend, for sure!


----------



## leftside

The transformers can't be very big?


----------



## leftside

I'd be happy if they just made the WA5 a little wider so I could fit in my ECC32 tubes.


----------



## jerick70

The WA5 is an awesome amp. The 300b goodness is quite satisfying. I don't think I will be upgrading for that price.


----------



## pervysage

Whoever gets to check it out this weekend should ask if it will come with the pictured tubes out of the box.


----------



## Khragon

pervysage said:


> Whoever gets to check it out this weekend should ask if it will come with the pictured tubes out of the box.


 
 unlikely, but it'll be good at that price to include a set of quality tubes.  Seems 2A3 tubes are on the rise.. Eddie Current is building a 2A3 amp too, the Studio Jr., at much better price though, I think they are targeting $3k.


----------



## watchdog507

pervysage said:


> Sheesh, that price is a lot higher than I thought it would be. I can understand the price increase (from what they had estimated previously) IF it comes stock with those KR Audio & Takatsuki tubes as they cost a pretty penny.


 
 My WA5-LE has never looked better.  If the WA33 price includes the KR's and Tak's that would go a long way to explaining the high price. The product description specifically omitted reference to the aforementioned tubes.  I have more than 80% of the cost of my WA5 in tubes so I can see how you can push the sticker into shock territory. Looking at Woo's line up, the price of the WA33 splits the current price of the flagship WA234 at $16,000.


----------



## Toolman

Was not so long ago the WA-22SE was going for around $6K? What changed besides the model number and the price?


----------



## phase0

Yea I'm wondering what changed as well. It will probably be Oct before I get a chance to hear it. I assume they think they nailed it if they're charging $8K for it. I'd like to hear them talk about it some more, explain the internals, components, a little bit about the design philosophy and the whys and what-fors...


----------



## Rossliew

Wonder if they will have pics of the internals?


----------



## Audio-Phile

Definitely interested in hearing impressions with the LCD4...but wow, 8k is a lot...more than I thought and more than I could swing for now. Maybe in the future...


----------



## musicman59

Guys,
 My custom built WA5-LE v1 is officially up for sale at the forum and Audiogon.


----------



## kyle1010

audio-phile said:


> Definitely interested in hearing impressions with the LCD4...but wow, 8k is a lot...more than I thought and more than I could swing for now. Maybe in the future...




Ok quick and dirty impressions with LCD-4s and WA33 here at CanJam. Best treble I've ever heard out of them. Just silky, extended, and pretty much perfect like a $100k+ loudspeaker sounds. Mids were extremely detailed and textured but not as liquid and intoxicatingly tubey like on my WA22..more reference sounding. Bass was punchy and more of a flat "audiophile tune" than the slam I get out of my WA22. Soundstage was where it took a big step. Very wide with laser accurate imaging on the Diana Krall live album I was listening to. Overall it's amazingly clean and accurate but not a whole lot of euphonic tube warmth. It will ship with regular RCA 2A3 drivers, Sovtek 6C45 drivers, and a Psvane 5U4G or equivalent. Sorry guys no holy grail tubes included. Ok back to the CanJam madness I go! Here's a few pics!


----------



## jerick70

kyle1010 said:


> Ok quick and dirty impressions with LCD-4s and WA33 here at CanJam. Best treble I've ever heard out of them. Just silky, extended, and pretty much perfect like a $100k+ loudspeaker sounds. Mids were extremely detailed and textured but not as liquid and intoxicatingly tubey like on my WA22..more reference sounding. Bass was punchy and more of a flat "audiophile tune" than the slam I get out of my WA22. Soundstage was where it took a big step. Very wide with laser accurate imaging on the Diana Krall live album I was listening to. Overall it's amazingly clean and accurate but not a whole lot of euphonic tube warmth. It will ship with regular RCA 2A3 drivers, Sovtek 6C45 drivers, and a Psvane 5U4G or equivalent. Sorry guys no holy grail tubes included. Ok back to the CanJam madness I go! Here's a few pics!




Have you listened to the LCD-4s on the WA5?


----------



## kyle1010

jerick70 said:


> Have you listened to the LCD-4s on the WA5?




Nope. And there's no WA5 here to do an A/B comparison.


----------



## reeltime

I got a listen to the WA-33. Yep, better than my WA5-LE with upgraded caps and tubes. No question, in my opinion. For impressions and photos I posted in the CanJam impressions thread (with photos) here:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/843727/canjam-socal-2017-impressions-thread#post_13410455


----------



## pervysage

kyle1010 said:


> Ok quick and dirty impressions with LCD-4s and WA33 here at CanJam. Best treble I've ever heard out of them. Just silky, extended, and pretty much perfect like a $100k+ loudspeaker sounds. Mids were extremely detailed and textured but not as liquid and intoxicatingly tubey like on my WA22..more reference sounding. Bass was punchy and more of a flat "audiophile tune" than the slam I get out of my WA22. Soundstage was where it took a big step. Very wide with laser accurate imaging on the Diana Krall live album I was listening to. Overall it's amazingly clean and accurate but not a whole lot of euphonic tube warmth. It will ship with regular RCA 2A3 drivers, Sovtek 6C45 drivers, and a Psvane 5U4G or equivalent. Sorry guys no holy grail tubes included. Ok back to the CanJam madness I go! Here's a few pics!


 
  
  


reeltime said:


> I got a listen to the WA-33. Yep, better than my WA5-LE with upgraded caps and tubes. No question, in my opinion. For impressions and photos I posted in the CanJam impressions thread (with photos) here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/843727/canjam-socal-2017-impressions-thread#post_13410455


 
  
 Thank you both for your impressions! Really enjoyed reading them. $8k is a terrible amount of money for me to be spending on audio though so I don't know if I will ever end up owning this beauty. I should stop reading impressions because it makes me keep thinking about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not good, not good at all.
  
 Interesting about the tubes that will be included. You guys are hearing the WA33 with the souped up tube setup, I would hope the stock tubes do not completely pale in comparison. Having to shell out a couple more grand to get it sounding perfect would kind of suck after shelling out that much money.
  
 By the way, I thought I noticed in a picture I had seen that one of the knobs was labelled HP/Pre (so a headphone mode and a preamp mode). Was I just seeing things or will WA33 have preamp functionality built in as well?


----------



## artemart

Not sure if it was mentioned above but 8K is with stock tubes, you need to pay extra for upgraded tubes.


----------



## Leotis

Can you report any Abyss v2 impressions???


----------



## reeltime

pervysage said:


> By the way, I thought I noticed in a picture I had seen that one of the knobs was labelled HP/Pre (so a headphone mode and a preamp mode). Was I just seeing things or will WA33 have preamp functionality built in as well?


 
  
 Yes a pre and also I believe the rep said the amp stage is 9 amps to speakers vs 5 amps from the WA5.  Upgrades all around, though you lose the silkiness of the 300B sound.
  
 It's a fantastic amp.
  
  


leotis said:


> Can you report any Abyss v2 impressions???


 

 I'm not the best one to ask, I wasn't a huge fan of the Abyss v1.  They are quality headphones, but I much prefer the HE-1000 and the Utopia to the Abyss. I know I may not in the majority on that one. I'm not a fan of the LCD-4, either. Great headphones, yes, I just prefer others, and I find both rather uncomfortable over time.


----------



## pervysage

reeltime said:


> Yes a pre and also I believe the rep said the amp stage is 9 amps to speakers vs 5 amps from the WA5.  Upgrades all around, though you lose the silkiness of the 300B sound.
> 
> It's a fantastic amp.


 
  
 Wait, you mean the WA33 will have speaker taps like the WA5?


----------



## reeltime

pervysage said:


> Wait, you mean the WA33 will have speaker taps like the WA5?


 

 Yes.


----------



## pervysage

reeltime said:


> Yes.


 
  
 Very interesting! I had asked someone directly at Woo a while back while the "WA22-SE" prototype was still in the works about driving speakers and it was strictly planned to be a headphone amp at the time.
  
 Thanks for the info!


----------



## Oskari

kyle1010 said:


> It will ship with regular RCA 2A3 drivers, Sovtek 6C45 drivers, and a Psvane 5U4G or equivalent. Sorry guys no holy grail tubes included.




What's a regular RCA 2A3? NOS RCA?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Anyone ever use the speaker terminals from the WA5 + WEE Electrostatic Converter to use some stax headphones?
  
 http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wee.html
  
 Thinking bout trying a sr009 but wouldnt want to invest in an entirely new amp just for that one headphone, so wondering how viable a solution that wee converter is.


----------



## Clayton SF

I have had my WA22 since 2009 and have never thought of upgrading anything except the tubes every now and then. I feel that the moment that I start to dwell on internal upgrades for my WA22, then that will be the moment when I remove myself from enjoying music at all. Of course I also have Glenn 300B monoblocks.
  
 Enjoy the music!


----------



## kyle1010

oskari said:


> What's a regular RCA 2A3? NOS RCA?




Honestly I have no idea, probably not NOS ones, most likely a current production model. 

Oh and I'm gonna say this about the hot rod WA33/Abyss Phi combo with unobtanium dac Woo had at CanJam..to my ears it sounded better than the Sennheiser HE-1 system. Easily stole best in show. Better dynamics and better soundstaging than HE-1, but an equal amount of detail. It was insanity what they've pulled off with that combo. No idea what that dac was but they definitely made their point. The bar has been raised.


----------



## longbowbbs

kyle1010 said:


> oskari said:
> 
> 
> > What's a regular RCA 2A3? NOS RCA?
> ...


 
 ESS Labs DS2....North of $25k


----------



## kyle1010

longbowbbs said:


> ESS Labs DS2....North of $25k




Yup. That thing was absolutely no joke.


----------



## phase0

You're getting close to HE-1 territory at those prices. I see almost universal glowing praise for the WA33. Looking forward to hearing it later this year. TBH I have so much $ sunk in my WA5 now I can't see myself switching to WA33 and taking the hit. I'm wondering how a WA5 w/ KR HP tubes would sound next to the WA33...


----------



## matthewhypolite

kyle1010 said:


> Honestly I have no idea, probably not NOS ones, most likely a current production model.
> 
> Oh and I'm gonna say this about the hot rod WA33/Abyss Phi combo with unobtanium dac Woo had at CanJam..to my ears it sounded better than the Sennheiser HE-1 system. Easily stole best in show. Better dynamics and better soundstaging than HE-1, but an equal amount of detail. It was insanity what they've pulled off with that combo. No idea what that dac was but they definitely made their point. The bar has been raised.




Better than he1 ? Wow. Makes me wanna get a w33


----------



## reeltime

kyle1010 said:


> to my ears it sounded better than the Sennheiser HE-1 system. Easily stole best in show. Better dynamics and better soundstaging than HE-1, but an equal amount of detail. It was insanity what they've pulled off with that combo.


 
  
 I wouldn't say the WA33 was better than the HE-1. But it sure made me start adding up gear to see what it would take to change my WA5LE v2 with upgraded caps and Takatsuki 300Bs into a WA33. 
  
 The HE-1, to my ears, had better bass and a more coherent midrange than the WA33, and the highs were what I've come to expect in an electrostatic. I've never heard anything like it before and when the Elvis song came on (Sennheiser picked the audition tracks) I teared up and got goosebumps. It was an emotional impact I didn't expect, and nothing the WA33 could replicate. 
  
 I brought my HE-1000 v2 to audition with the WA33. I preferred it (and the Focal Utopia) to the Abyss. Not a knock on the Phi at all, they are sensational. The pairing with the HE-1000 was particularly remarkable, and better than my WA5LE by an uncomfortable margin. The WA33 really took the HE-1000 into unchartered territory sonically. 
  
 Jack and Co. really knocked it out of the park with the WA33. It deserves an asking price north of the WA5.


----------



## drbobbybones

pervysage said:


> Wait, you mean the WA33 will have speaker taps like the WA5?


 

 I asked Jack Wu about this at the show.  He said that this would have to be custom ordered, but the amp will put about 9 or 10 watts out.  Plenty for some efficient speakers in a small room.  
  
 And I agree with what others have said about the WA33--this is hands down the best tube amplifier I have ever heard.  So much soundstage, power, control, and detail.  Gotta get one.


----------



## kyle1010

reeltime said:


> I wouldn't say the WA33 was better than the HE-1. But it sure made me start adding up gear to see what it would take to change my WA5LE v2 with upgraded caps and Takatsuki 300Bs into a WA33.
> 
> The HE-1, to my ears, had better bass and a more coherent midrange than the WA33, and the highs were what I've come to expect in an electrostatic. I've never heard anything like it before and when the Elvis song came on (Sennheiser picked the audition tracks) I teared up and got goosebumps. It was an emotional impact I didn't expect, and nothing the WA33 could replicate.
> 
> ...




We probably just have different sound signature preferences. HE-1 was incredible for sure, but I was disappointed when I heard the slightest amount of grain in Norah Jones's voice. The soundstage wasn't as wide as WA33/Abyss Phi but some people prefer that more intimate sound. Bass was flat but insanely clean. That Elvis song was quite amazing though I'll admit. However the stat drivers in HE-1 couldn't touch the new Abyss Phi and WA33 in dynamics, but that's really not what it's designed to do. The Woo system was equally detailed to my ears but I heard zero grain in the vocals. The live rock albums sounded dead on exactly how they should with appropriate weight to the kick drums and a wide, realistic, razor sharp imaged soundstage. I couldn't stop smiling with that system. The HE-1 was just super impressive to me. But yeah, if you're a stat guy HE-1 is king, if you're into dynamic planar sound WA33/Abyss Phi was untouchable.


----------



## Oskari

kyle1010 said:


> Honestly I have no idea, probably not NOS ones, most likely a current production model.




:confused_face_2: RCA's long gone.


----------



## Xecuter

The wa33 is very intriguing. Considering it comes with nearly 3k worth of tubes it is very fairly priced IMO.
  
 I'd like to know which transformer they have gone with.


----------



## pervysage

xecuter said:


> The wa33 is very intriguing. Considering it comes with nearly 3k worth of tubes it is very fairly priced IMO.
> 
> I'd like to know which transformer they have gone with.


 
  
 From my understanding, it DOES NOT come with the upgraded tubes.


----------



## jerick70

From my calculations we are talking about ~$420 in tubes in the WA33.  That's using Ebay as a source.  With Woo's markup we are talking a bit more.  I don't see the $8K price tag coming from the tubes.


----------



## watchdog507

jerick70 said:


> From my calculations we are talking about ~$420 in tubes in the WA33.  That's using Ebay as a source.  With Woo's markup we are talking a bit more.  I don't see the $8K price tag coming from the tubes.


 
 Yup! Show attendees that spoke to Woo were given information about a standard tube set apparently. Not the one being displayed.  It's easy to load it up with Tak's, KR or my favourites EML to  almost half way to the purchase price.


----------



## Xecuter

Well woo bought up the KR HP stock of 2a3s. So I thought it came with at least the stock KR 2a3 (which are not very reliable tubes).
 I don't know which tubes they will supply which are stock? Some chinese or Sovtek?
  
 I have several quads of RCA, avvt and other NOS tubes for my current amp, Cost for a quad of NOS these days is at least 1kusd. With higher end mono-plates or dual mono plates coming in at almost 1k a tube.
  
 Cheaper quads of military wavy plate can be had for a bit cheaper but are not very nice sounding IMO.
 So if the amp doesn't come with the JPS KR tubes, you're going to need to spend another 2kusd. Haha.


----------



## pervysage

I'd certainly hope the stock tubes don't sound like absolute crap after spending that much... hmm.
  
 Would've been nice if someone was able to hear it with stock tubes but I guess that wouldn't have been allowed at the show.


----------



## joseph69

pervysage said:


> I'd certainly hope the stock tubes don't sound like absolute crap after spending that much... hmm.
> 
> Would've been nice if someone was able to hear it with stock tubes but I guess that wouldn't have been allowed at the show.


 

 Actually, the WA33 should have been presented to hear with "stock" tubes only IMO.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> Actually, the WA33 should have been presented to hear with "stock" tubes only IMO.


 
 Agreed, there should have been both versions.


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> Agreed, there should have been both versions.


 

 Right, so you could choose if want the upgraded tube options or not.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> Right, so you could choose if want the upgraded tube options or not.


 
  
 Indeed, or see if you'll be ok with stock for a while, and get upgraded tubes later on etc.
 Guess we'll get feedback from folks when the first set of w33 starts going out and we get stock vs upgraded comparisons.


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> *Indeed, or see if you'll be ok with stock for a while, and get upgraded tubes later on etc.*
> Guess we'll get feedback from folks when the first set of w33 starts going out and we get stock vs upgraded comparisons.


 
 Exactly.


----------



## phase0

joseph69 said:


> Actually, the WA33 should have been presented to hear with "stock" tubes only IMO.


 
  
 I asked one of the Woo guys about that once, why are you displaying with only stock tubes? and they said people complain. I'm in the camp that I want to hear more of the full potential of the amp. I think they are right to max it out. Then you know what the potential is.
  
 Edit: Wanted to expand a little bit more... People are walking away from that show mostly "OMG WA33 is amazing". Now switch it out to stock tubes and maybe people switch their attitude to well I can spend $1-2K for a SS amp that's as good, big waste of money that $8k is. I think that can swing a big difference in perception. I also would want to know if I spend $8k + upgrade the tubes I can have "that amazing experience".


----------



## matthewhypolite

phase0 said:


> I asked one of the Woo guys about that once, why are you displaying with only stock tubes? and they said people complain. I'm in the camp that I want to hear more of the full potential of the amp. I think they are right to max it out. Then you know what the potential is.
> 
> Edit: Wanted to expand a little bit more... People are walking away from that show mostly "OMG WA33 is amazing". Now switch it out to stock tubes and maybe people switch their attitude to well I can spend $1-2K for a SS amp that's as good, big waste of money that $8k is. I think that can swing a big difference in perception. I also would want to know if I spend $8k + upgrade the tubes I can have "that amazing experience".




That's why we said offer both, stock and tricked out. So we can hear the difference then and there. No one is suggesting a stock only showing.


----------



## phase0

matthewhypolite said:


> That's why we said offer both, stock and tricked out. So we can hear the difference then and there. No one is suggesting a stock only showing.


 
  
 Sure, but you're also asking them to ship, setup, tear down an awful lot of gear. I'm thinking about it from the perspective of what if they only bring one unit? Yea ultimately you're right one of each for comparison is better but they also have to deal with mechanical reality when prepping for shows. If it was that easy to do maybe they would already do that?


----------



## matthewhypolite

No idea how easy it is or what the logistics are, just letting them know what we'd like and maybe next show we may see it who knows.  

That's the point of the thread no? 

Thoughts, Opinions, suggestions, feedback. 

And personally I'd be more inclined to grab a w33 sooner and upgrade later if I knew the stock was worth the initial investment, vs waiting longer till I have all the cash to get it fully tricked out at go.


----------



## Porteroso

I wonder, how does it compare to the 234. If you max both, how close are they? 
  
 I also think that they are right to show the setup with maxed tubes. And I don't think that setting up demos for stock v max tubes is in their best interest. You don't want people attributing the greatness of your amp to the tubes. That said, we would all like to know how it sounds with the stock tubes. I won't be buying anything that expensive anytime soon, but all of this is interesting for sure.
  
 Basically though, even though they said it would cost 8k, the sticker shock didn't seem to kill off any interest. It seems to be universally praised. If it ends up being a really great amp, interesting times are ahead.
  
 I don't think Woo is a perfect company, but I think they are more perfect than many other big time amp makers. I really would love to see them continue to succeed. They can send me a W33 for free too, and I will hope even harder.


----------



## Contrails

I think Woo needs to rethink their pricing.  Not just for the WA33.  
  
 Amps such as the WA5 & WA22 have a slow lush sound but the WA33 is more fast and clean sounding, as mentioned by other members.  I am guessing Woo sees this sound as the future especially for a TOTL amp.  For 6k - 7k you are in Eddie Current 45 amp territory with upgraded tubes and well into Glenn 300B with Taks with some spare change.  Those are proper TOTL amps and made in the USA too! 
  
 My point being, value for money the Woo amps perform poorly.  This is 2017 and there are some amazing amps for similar price points.


----------



## Rossliew

Seriously would like to know how these companies come up with their pricing..


----------



## kranebrain

contrails said:


> I think Woo needs to rethink their pricing.  Not just for the WA33.
> 
> Amps such as the WA5 & WA22 have a slow lush sound but the WA33 is more fast and clean sounding, as mentioned by other members.  I am guessing Woo sees this sound as the future especially for a TOTL amp.  For 6k - 7k you are in Eddie Current 45 amp territory with upgraded tubes and well into Glenn 300B with Taks with some spare change.  Those are proper TOTL amps and made in the USA too!
> 
> My point being, value for money the Woo amps perform poorly.  This is 2017 and there are some amazing amps for similar price points.


 

Can you think of a portable amp or dac/amp that competes against the WA8?


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> I also think that they are right to show the setup with maxed tubes. And I don't think that setting up demos for stock v max tubes is in their best interest. *You don't want people attributing the greatness of your amp to the tubes. *That said, we would all like to know how it sounds with the stock tubes.


 
  
 But in reality people are attributing their amps greatness to the upgraded tubes if it's presented in this form. [size=x-small]All tube amps have the potential to sound better with upgraded tubes, so I believe they should be presented with stock tubes to show the amps factory sound-signature before spending on upgraded tubes. Hearing the amp in stock form just may [/size]allow you to get a better comparison between their other amps[size=x-small] and possibly buy a less expensive amp and upgrade the tubes with the same results while keeping a few grand in your pocket. [/size]


----------



## jerick70

kranebrain said:


> Can you think of a portable amp or dac/amp that competes against the WA8?


 
  
 "Competes" is big territory to cover.  I'll list a few tube amps that are "similar" because they have tubes and are portable.  Jaben GoVibe Porta Tube, ALO Continental Dual Mono, Fostex HP-V1, ALO Continental V5.


----------



## Porteroso

joseph69 said:


> porteroso said:
> 
> 
> > I also think that they are right to show the setup with maxed tubes. And I don't think that setting up demos for stock v max tubes is in their best interest. *You don't want people attributing the greatness of your amp to the tubes. *That said, we would all like to know how it sounds with the stock tubes.
> ...


 
 Again, it is not in Woo's best interest to show you an amp that doesn't sound as good as it can. And it is certainly not in their best interest to try to provide you with a way to compare the amp to other great amps, so you can buy the other amps and save some money. They're out to sell Woo products, not ensure you make an informed decision.
  
 They want you to hear it, love it, buy it. As do almost all companies.


----------



## jerick70

porteroso said:


> Again, it is not in Woo's best interest to show you an amp that doesn't sound as good as it can. And it is certainly not in their best interest to try to provide you with a way to compare the amp to other great amps, so you can buy the other amps and save some money. They're out to sell Woo products, not ensure you make an informed decision.
> 
> They want you to hear it, love it, buy it. As do almost all companies.


 
  
 I'm just curious.  What amps are "great" compared to Woo?


----------



## joseph69

porteroso said:


> Again, it is not in Woo's best interest to show you an amp that doesn't sound as good as it can. And it is certainly not in their best interest to try to provide you with a way to compare the amp to other great amps, so you can buy the other amps and save some money. They're out to sell Woo products, not ensure you make an informed decision.
> 
> They want you to hear it, love it, buy it. As do almost all companies.


 

 I Agree with this 100%, but not as a consumer.


----------



## drbobbybones

kranebrain said:


> Can you think of a portable amp or dac/amp that competes against the WA8?


 
  


jerick70 said:


> "Competes" is big territory to cover.  I'll list a few tube amps that are "similar" because they have tubes and are portable.  Jaben GoVibe Porta Tube, ALO Continental Dual Mono, Fostex HP-V1, ALO Continental V5.


 

 I'd add the Hugo2 as well.  The new filters can make it sound almost like the Chord DAVE or the Mojo with a push of a button.  I might actually think about getting one of these to replace my WA8 purely because of battery life concerns.  I fly cross country a lot and the WA8 doesn't make it unless I plug it into an external battery.  I wish they doubled the size of the battery so I could get 7 or 8 hours, which would cover almost any flight I take.  
  
 That said, the sound of the WA8 is sublime.  Woo hit this one out of the park sonically.


----------



## jerick70

drbobbybones said:


> I'd add the Hugo2 as well.  The new filters can make it sound almost like the Chord DAVE or the Mojo with a push of a button.  I might actually think about getting one of these to replace my WA8 purely because of battery life concerns.  I fly cross country a lot and the WA8 doesn't make it unless I plug it into an external battery.  I wish they doubled the size of the battery so I could get 7 or 8 hours, which would cover almost any flight I take.
> 
> That said, the sound of the WA8 is sublime.  Woo hit this one out of the park sonically.


 
  
 I've not heard the WA8 but have owned the WA7 recently.  The WA7 has the same performance as the WA8 according to Mike at Woo.  I'm guessing that equals the audio performance too.  I really loved my WA7, but wanted something portable so I sold my WA7 to purchase a iBasso DX200.  I highly recommend the DX200.  The performance of DX200 is excellent and on par with my Woo WA7.  It does have a slightly different sound signature from the Woo gear.  I'm adding a Fostex HP-V1 to my portable rig to give me the tube sound signature if I want it.


----------



## drbobbybones

jerick70 said:


> I've not heard the WA8 but have owned the WA7 recently.  The WA7 has the same performance as the WA8 according to Mike at Woo.  I'm guessing that equals the audio performance too.  I really loved my WA7, but wanted something portable so I sold my WA7 to purchase a iBasso DX200.  I highly recommend the DX200.  The performance of DX200 is excellent and on par with my Woo WA7.  It does have a slightly different sound signature from the Woo gear.  I'm adding a Fostex HP-V1 to my portable rig to give me the tube sound signature if I want it.


 

 Funny, I don't think the WA8 and the WA7 sound alike at all.  The WA8 is warmer with more tube flavor, and the WA7 is much more linear and analytical.  The WA7 is actually the only amp in Woo's lineup that I don't love, except for its looks--the unit is absolutely beautiful.  Too cold for me.  I like my tube amps to sound a bit warm--otherwise I would go solid state.


----------



## jerick70

drbobbybones said:


> Funny, I don't think the WA8 and the WA7 sound alike at all.  The WA8 is warmer with more tube flavor, and the WA7 is much more linear and analytical.  The WA7 is actually the only amp in Woo's lineup that I don't love, except for its looks--the unit is absolutely beautiful.  Too cold for me.  I like my tube amps to sound a bit warm--otherwise I would go solid state.


 
  
 I've not heard the WA8.  My assumptions may have been incorrect.  I didn't think my WA7 was cold at all.  In fact with cryoed Russian 6C45P-E tubes it was warm sounding.  I can see that with the stock Sovtek tubes, they were terrible and made it sound harsh.


----------



## drbobbybones

jerick70 said:


> I've not heard the WA8.  My assumptions were incorrect.  I didn't think my WA7 was cold at all.  In fact with cryoed Russian 6C45P-E tubes it was warm sounding.  I can see that with the stock Sovtek tubes, they were terrible and made it sound harsh.


 

 Good point.  I only heard the WA7 with the stock tubes and wasn't impressed.  Probably sounds better with better tubes.


----------



## joseph69

drbobbybones said:


> Good point.  I only heard the WA7 with the stock tubes and wasn't impressed.  Probably sounds better with better tubes.


 
  
 My point exactly as a consumer.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> I Agree with this 100%, but not as a consumer.


 
  
 This.
  
 My concern is not what is in woo's best interest, My concern is what's in my best interest as a consumer who's about to drop 8000$ on their product. And as a consumer id like to know how it sounds stock. They may actually even get sales from folks like myself and @joseph69 when they previously would not otherwise, as we may grab the amp stock and run it for a couple years then upgrade tubes later on, rather than just not buying it at all until we have cash for the whole lot altogether. Logistics aside, i really dont see how showing stock performance will hurt. The last thing they want is someone hearing the w33 at canjam, running out and buying it stock, then disappointed with the performance stock because it doesnt live up, then proceeds to return it. At least you'll know what you're getting into.

 Take the abyss for e.g., it wasn't just shown on the rig it sounds the "Best" on, it were on various setups, which i appreciate, because you can get to hear how it sound in a couple different scenarios and see what matches yours the best and decide if you wanna jump in grab the Abyss and worry about upgrading to extract its full potential later.
  
 It's int heir best interest to make $, but it's in my best interest to spend it wisely, and thus i'll request amenities that would help make that decision. As a consumer, your priority should be yourself. 

 Anyways, this is becoming a bit off topic, so *patiently waiting on some stock impressions*


----------



## drbobbybones

matthewhypolite said:


> This.
> 
> My concern is not what is in woo's best interest, My concern is what's in my best interest as a consumer who's about to drop 8000$ on their product. And as a consumer id like to know how it sounds stock. They may actually even get sales from folks like myself and @joseph69 when they previously would not otherwise, as we may grab the amp stock and run it for a couple years then upgrade tubes later on, rather than just not buying it at all until we have cash for the whole lot altogether. Logistics aside, i really dont see how showing stock performance will hurt. The last thing they want is someone hearing the w33 at canjam, running out and buying it stock, then disappointed with the performance stock because it doesnt live up, then proceeds to return it. At least you'll know what you're getting into.
> 
> ...


 

 I hear you on this, but I don't think they have a ton of prototypes.  I think this is the only one in near final form.  So in that scenario, I'd show it in its best light possible.  I think when it does get released, having a stock one and souped-up one side by side would be really helpful.


----------



## matthewhypolite

drbobbybones said:


> I hear you on this, but I don't think they have a ton of prototypes.  I think this is the only one in near final form.  So in that scenario, I'd show it in its best light possible.  I think when it does get released, having a stock one and souped-up one side by side would be really helpful.


 
  
 Agreed, if they dont have many on hand then yea.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

CanJam SoCal was the first time we showed the "pre-production" WA33 and we wanted to show everyone what it is capable of. Similarly, most high-end audio manufacturers use the best quality music, best DAC, and best cables at shows.
  
 A new Lamborghini is often showed off on a race track to show the press what it is capable of. It wouldn't do very well on public roads. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 We will show production WA33 in stock form at RMAF. 
  
 https://www.audiofest.net


----------



## jerick70

hifiguy528 said:


> CanJam SoCal was the first time we showed the "pre-production" WA33 and we wanted to show everyone what it is capable of. Similarly, most high-end audio manufacturers use the best quality music, best DAC, and best cables at shows.
> 
> A new Lamborghini is often showed off on a race track to show the press what it is capable of. It wouldn't do very well on public roads.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hopefully I'm going to be at RMAF this year.  If I am I'm gong to have to have a listen.  I can't seem to be able to get away that weekend in the past couple of years.


----------



## matthewhypolite

hifiguy528 said:


> CanJam SoCal was the first time we showed the "pre-production" WA33 and we wanted to show everyone what it is capable of. Similarly, most high-end audio manufacturers use the best quality music, best DAC, and best cables at shows.
> 
> A new Lamborghini is often showed off on a race track to show the press what it is capable of. It wouldn't do very well on public roads.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great, much appreciated


----------



## pervysage

Anyone who tried out the Utopia with the WA33, what were your thoughts on the lower frequencies? From what I've read so far, it's not as warm and tubey sounding as the WA22, but does it still do well bass impact wise?


----------



## jerick70

drbobbybones said:


> Good point.  I only heard the WA7 with the stock tubes and wasn't impressed.  Probably sounds better with better tubes.


 

 I think a lot of people hear the WA7 with the stock tubes and decide they don't like it.  Especially newcomers to head gear, which it's geared toward.  With the Russian tubes it is my favorite desktop amp, that I've heard, in the $1k range.


----------



## Emospence

I'm looking for an amp to drive HD600s and am considering WA3, would that be a good combination?
  
 What's a decent, affordable DAC to go with it?


----------



## jerick70

emospence said:


> I'm looking for an amp to drive HD600s and am considering WA3, would that be a good combination?
> 
> What's a decent, affordable DAC to go with it?


 
  
 What's your budget?  What sound signature do you like?


----------



## drbobbybones

pervysage said:


> Anyone who tried out the Utopia with the WA33, what were your thoughts on the lower frequencies? From what I've read so far, it's not as warm and tubey sounding as the WA22, but does it still do well bass impact wise?


 

 Bass was full and impactful.  The Utopia doesn't have a large quantity of bass, but the Utopia+WA33 combo had the best bass I have ever heard come from the Utopia.
  
 The WA33 is a really special machine.  It made the Abyss Phi seem both incredibly powerful and well controlled at the same time.  I've never heard my Eikons sound better.  Detail, power, and soundstage were all there in spades.


----------



## pervysage

drbobbybones said:


> Bass was full and impactful.  The Utopia doesn't have a large quantity of bass, but the Utopia+WA33 combo had the best bass I have ever heard come from the Utopia.
> 
> The WA33 is a really special machine.  It made the Abyss Phi seem both incredibly powerful and well controlled at the same time.  I've never heard my Eikons sound better.  Detail, power, and soundstage were all there in spades.


 
  
 Cool thanks.
  
 Did you happen to check out the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten with the Utopia? Wondering how that compares to the WA33 as well bass wise.


----------



## drbobbybones

pervysage said:


> Cool thanks.
> 
> Did you happen to check out the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten with the Utopia? Wondering how that compares to the WA33 as well bass wise.


 

I did, but the show floor was noisy so I can't make any accurate observations. The WA33 sounded better to my ears, but I need to give the Cavalli a fair shake before I say for sure.


----------



## reeltime

contrails said:


> I think Woo needs to rethink their pricing.  Not just for the WA33.
> 
> Amps such as the WA5 & WA22 have a slow lush sound but the WA33 is more fast and clean sounding, as mentioned by other members.  I am guessing Woo sees this sound as the future especially for a TOTL amp.  For 6k - 7k you are in Eddie Current 45 amp territory with upgraded tubes and well into Glenn 300B with Taks with some spare change.  Those are proper TOTL amps and made in the USA too!
> 
> My point being, value for money the Woo amps perform poorly.  This is 2017 and there are some amazing amps for similar price points.


 

 I'd argue that the marketplace will set the price. If the product isn't selling (this doesn't just apply to Woo) the price will be decreased, or the model scrapped.
  
 If a consumer feels the WA33 is a bad value at $8000 dollars, then the person will purchase an amp perceived to have a higher value.
  
 My WA5LE v2 was $6000 dollars with upgrades. Is it a good value? I bought and enjoy the amp, so I would say yes. 
  
 Based on what I've heard, the WA33 is a better amp than my WA5LE, and I have no problem with Woo pricing the amp higher than the WA5.  If I could figure out a way to sell off my WA5LE and add some money to it, I'd happily purchase the WA33, based on what I've heard. I believe it's the finest valve non-electrostatic headphone amp I've yet heard. You obviously have a different opinion, and I respect that.
  
 You perceive (if I'm reading you correctly) that other amps perform better than the Woo amps, so I wouldn't expect you to purchase the product. 
  
 I'm going to soapbox for a second, forgive me.
  
 When I'm reviewing a product, or offering an opinion (I'm not a professional reviewer, but some manufacturers have sought out my opinion) I try to avoid being negative. There is a lot of negative energy that floats through the forums. For example, I found the Mr. Speakers electrostatic headphone to fall short of my expectations at the show. It was paired with the Blue Hawaii amp, one of my very favorite amps. Rather than bash the headphone, which certainly the manufacturer must believe to be a product of quality, I looked for weaknesses in the setup, and suggested that perhaps the exhibitors should consider better quality audio files, because I don't feel they represented the headphone's greatest qualities in the best way. By contrast, Sennheiser custom chose the tracks for auditioning on their HE-1. While this was limiting, it left the listener with little doubt about how well their system can perform. This is a round about way of trying to get people to look to the positives and avoid being hyper-critical, or at least find balance in what they write.
  
 These companies work very hard to deliver what they believe are the best products they are able to produce. I appreciate and applaud their efforts. We are in a golden age for personal listening. Future enthusiasts will look back at this era with great nostalgia. We are experiencing a renaissance of development, the likes of which this industry has ever seen.


----------



## Emospence

jerick70 said:


> What's your budget?  What sound signature do you like?


 
  
 A warm-leaning neutral.
  
 Anything less than the amp but the more bang-for-buck, the better!


----------



## Krutsch

emospence said:


> I'm looking for an amp to drive *HD600s and am considering WA3, would that be a good combination?*
> 
> What's a decent, affordable DAC to go with it?


 
  
 It's a match made in heaven


----------



## jhljhl

For WA5 and WA5LE owners, I recommend the Shuguang black treasure 300b tubes. I don't know about their longevity but they are lush sounding with a nice bass response for 300b tubes. Let me know what you think. They are a bargain now I think compared to other 300b tubes.


----------



## watchdog507

If your budgeting the Gold Lion 300B tubes are good and at a higher price point I swear by my EML 520B V3 tubes


----------



## jhljhl

watchdog507 said:


> If your budgeting the Gold Lion 300B tubes are good and at a higher price point I swear by my EML 520B V3 tubes


 

 I have and like the Gold Lions but prefer also a warmer sound that the Shuguang have. But haven't heard that many other 300b's to compare.


----------



## Leotis

badas said:


> .
> From all the DAC's I have heard this is how I would rank them (worst to best).
> 
> Oppo HA-1, Cambridge DAC magic, Arcam irDAC, DAC inbuilt into the Sim Audio 230HA, Hegal HD30, Auralic Vega, Yaggy and Bricasti.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the tip.
 I got a Yggy and was not happy till 150-200 hours in. Now couldn't be more pleased.
 Got you to thank!
 Robert Harley lists it in his top 3 DACs in new issue of TAS.
 I just ordered another for my other system.


----------



## Leotis

emospence said:


> I'm looking for an amp to drive HD600s and am considering WA3, would that be a good combination?
> 
> What's a decent, affordable DAC to go with it?


 

 All of a sudden I'm a big Schiit fan with a recent Yggdrasil.
 I'm sold on the multibit concept cause I love how it sounds.
 Schiit is known for ridiculous price for performance.
 Bifrost multibit is $599
 Gungnir multibit is $1249
 Yggdrasil is $2299
 Rbt Harley in new TAS calls Yggy "One of the greatest bargains in the history of high-end audio."
 And the less expensive models are even better price for performance.
 Don't know your budget but people love the Bifrost multibit and it don't cost much.
 I'm a recent convert so take my advice with a grain of salt
 But maybe check it out.


----------



## Rossliew

The bifrost multibit is great but I find that the gungnir's more robust power supply delivers greater dynamics and bass punch. And this is the DS gungnir that I'm referring to.


----------



## Leotis

Only Schiit I've heard is the Yggy.
 So my suggestion is really just speculation.
 A lot of you will know way more about it than I do.


----------



## reeltime

leotis said:


> All of a sudden I'm a big Schiit fan with a recent Yggdrasil.
> I'm sold on the multibit concept cause I love how it sounds.
> Schiit is known for ridiculous price for performance.
> Bifrost multibit is $599
> ...


 

 I'd have to put the Chord Dave at the top and make room for the Hugo and Hugo TT near the top. It still bothers me that the Yggy can't handle DSD native. How a TOTL DAC can't deal with the industry's current best digital format... beyond me. Quality product, but still.


----------



## jerick70

reeltime said:


> I'd have to put the Chord Dave at the top and make room for the Hugo and Hugo TT near the top. It still bothers me that the Yggy can't handle DSD native. How a TOTL DAC can't deal with the industry's current best digital format... beyond me. Quality product, but still.




The DSD issue is a big reason I've hesitated buying a Schiit DAC. And the bad experience I had with the original Bifrost. I don't know how many times I've sat at my computer with my mouse cursor over the buy button on Schiit's site.... One of my current DACs is DSD challenged and I find it getting less and less use. You can down sample but why would you want to do that with the premium price you paid for a DSD album?


----------



## drbobbybones

reeltime said:


> I'd have to put the Chord Dave at the top and make room for the Hugo and Hugo TT near the top. It still bothers me that the Yggy can't handle DSD native. How a TOTL DAC can't deal with the industry's current best digital format... beyond me. Quality product, but still.




Couldn't agree more. The Chord DAVE is the most lifelike DAC I have ever heard. Much more so than the Yggdrasil. The headphone out is also quite good, and I use that frequently--almost as much as using the WA22 fed from the DAVE. 

The lack of DSD is puzzling for an endgame amp like the Yggy. I use Roon and upsample to DSD 256--the sound is GLORIOUS! It would have been nice to have that option in the Schiit.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> The DSD issue is a big reason I've hesitated buying a Schiit DAC. And the bad experience I had with the original Bifrost. I don't know how many times I've sat at my computer with my mouse cursor over the buy button on Schiit's site.... One of my current DACs is DSD challenged and I find it getting less and less use. You can down sample but why would you want to do that with the premium price you paid for a DSD album?


 

 Have you considered the Holo Spring DAC?


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> Have you considered the Holo Spring DAC?


 
  
 Yes, I've had my eye on the Spring since it was announced.  I'm waiting for things in the R2R Ladder DAC realm to work themselves out before I commit.  I've also been watching the more affordable Denafrips offerings. I'm all about getting the best price performance out of my gear....


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> Yes, I've had my eye on the Spring since it was announced.  I'm waiting for things in the R2R Ladder DAC realm to work themselves out before I commit.  I've also been watching the more affordable Denafrips offerings. I'm all about getting the best price performance out of my gear....


 

 I would have mentioned the Denifraps DACs, but I have no experience with them, so I didn't.
 I follow the thread and most seem to be enjoying the Ares. Anyway, I have the Spring KTE and wouldn't hesitate to but another one if I needed a second DAC. Best thing I added to my chain.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> I would have mentioned the Denifraps DACs, but I have no experience with them, so I didn't.
> I follow the thread and most seem to be enjoying the Ares. Anyway, I have the Spring KTE and wouldn't hesitate to but another one if I needed a second DAC. Best thing I added to my chain.




Even the level 1 Spring looks like a winner. What DAC do you use in your first system?


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> Even the level 1 Spring looks like a winner. What DAC do you use in your first system?


 

 Yes, the Level 1 also seems to be a inner from the few who have compared them to the 2/KTE.
 I sold my PWD-ll and just use the Spring.


----------



## leftside

Some good DACs being mentioned here. I've heard nothing but good reports regarding the Yggy. A lesser known brand to consider is Lampizator. For critical listening I've always used vinyl, but this year I now also use digital files since I purchased an Atlantic.


----------



## reeltime

jerick70 said:


> The DSD issue is a big reason I've hesitated buying a Schiit DAC. And the bad experience I had with the original Bifrost. I don't know how many times I've sat at my computer with my mouse cursor over the buy button on Schiit's site.... One of my current DACs is DSD challenged and I find it getting less and less use. You can down sample but why would you want to do that with the premium price you paid for a DSD album?


 

 Even a company like Wyred4Sound has had a DSD upgrade option for their DAC2 for over 2 years, and their new DAC2 has DSD built in. I do not understand Schiit (there's a joke here?!), and I do not understand people who have a crazy passion for the Yggy. Quality DAC, no doubt, but it falls short in a very important area.
  
 Some have argued that the DSD format doesn't offer a significant upgrade over 192khz files. I completely disagree. The files I have that are remastered for DSD sound significantly cleaner than their 96k and 192k counterparts. You don't think it's possible, until you actually compare them.


----------



## longbowbbs

Jason and Mike have been very clear that with 99% of all digital music in PCM format they have no interest in worrying about DSD conversion. Schiit will remain non DSD.


----------



## DavidRoss007

My wife is ordering a WA6 for me for my birthday and I just noticed on the woo website that it is now the 2nd generation. I read the explanation but don't relly see the difference. Can someone be so kind and maybe give me a basic explanation.
  
 Thanks


----------



## JoeDoe

davidross007 said:


> My wife is ordering a WA6 for me for my birthday and I just noticed on the woo website that it is now the 2nd generation. I read the explanation but don't relly see the difference. Can someone be so kind and maybe give me a basic explanation.
> 
> Thanks




http://wooaudio.com/products/wa6.html

Differences at the top of the page!


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> Yes, the Level 1 also seems to be a inner from the few who have compared them to the 2/KTE.
> I sold my PWD-ll and just use the Spring.




I'm so tempted to get a Spring now. Have you listened to the level 1 and compared to the level 2 and 3?


----------



## jerick70

reeltime said:


> Even a company like Wyred4Sound has had a DSD upgrade option for their DAC2 for over 2 years, and their new DAC2 has DSD built in. I do not understand Schiit (there's a joke here?!), and I do not understand people who have a crazy passion for the Yggy. Quality DAC, no doubt, but it falls short in a very important area.
> 
> Some have argued that the DSD format doesn't offer a significant upgrade over 192khz files. I completely disagree. The files I have that are remastered for DSD sound significantly cleaner than their 96k and 192k counterparts. You don't think it's possible, until you actually compare them.




My thoughts exactly. DSD is the way the industry is going. And it definitely sounds better to my ears. I was blown away the first time I heard Diana Krall's Girl in the other room album in DSD. It's a bad move for Schiit not to follow suit. They did release their little box that you can put between your DAC, but I don't want two boxes. I want a DAC that plays all popular formats. Not sure why they don't build DSD into their DACs. 

If the Holo Spring sounds as good as I've heard from reviews I think I'm going that direction. Plus the discrete resistor ladders are very cool tech. Now I just need to find one to listen to.


----------



## Krutsch

You really have to hand it to Jason S. Schitt marketing and their fanboys are on every thread now.
  
 Amazing...


----------



## longbowbbs

If you are referring to me I own no Schiit gear. I simply asked Jason the question about DSD at RMAF and that is what he said. Rumor mill all you want they simply are not interested in supporting DSD as a minority format.


----------



## Krutsch

^ No, I am not referring to anyone or even a particular post.


----------



## watchdog507

jerick70 said:


> My thoughts exactly. DSD is the way the industry is going. And it definitely sounds better to my ears. I was blown away the first time I heard Diana Krall's Girl in the other room album in DSD. It's a bad move for Schiit not to follow suit. They did release their little box that you can put between your DAC, but I don't want two boxes. I want a DAC that plays all popular formats. Not sure why they don't build DSD into their DACs.
> 
> If the Holo Spring sounds as good as I've heard from reviews I think I'm going that direction. Plus the discrete resistor ladders are very cool tech. Now I just need to find one to listen to.


 
 Schiit is welcome to chose the path that their company takes.  Schiit does't drive the market, consumers do.  Whether the need is perceived or not, DSD and now MQA are here to stay. The market allows us to chose our direction and I went with a Mytek Brooklyn.  It works with all of the formats and I'm pleased with the sound quality and the feature set.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I'm so tempted to get a Spring now. Have you listened to the level 1 and compared to the level 2 and 3?


 
  
 Pull the trigger, you won't be disappointed.
 Unfortunately I have not heard the Level 1 or 2, but there was a few members on the Holo thread that have had the opportunity to do so, and claimed slight differences between them.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> Pull the trigger, you won't be disappointed.
> Unfortunately I have not heard the Level 1 or 2, but there was a few members on the Holo thread that have had the opportunity to do so, and claimed slight differences between them.




I think I'm going to.  I really want to listen to it first, but I don't know anyone in my area that has one. I'm going to put my other DAC up for sale and hopefully by the time I sell I can listen to the Spring.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I think I'm going to.  I really want to listen to it first, but I don't know anyone in my area that has one. I'm going to put my other DAC up for sale and hopefully by the time I sell I can listen to the Spring.


 
  
 Probably going to be hard to listen to one unless you know someone who has one or you can attend a CanJam. HeadAmp uses the Spring KTE with the GS-X Mk2/BHSE. I dealt with Tim of Holo Audio USA who provides excellent customer service and communication as well as being a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> Probably going to be hard to listen to one unless you know someone who has one or you can attend a CanJam. HeadAmp uses the Spring KTE with the GS-X Mk2/BHSE. I dealt with Tim of Holo Audio USA who provides excellent customer service and communication as well as being a pleasure to deal with.




You are probably correct. It's going to be hard to find one to listen to soon. I can always wait until RMAF but that is pretty far off. I'll work it out.


----------



## kyle1010

jerick70 said:


> I think I'm going to.  I really want to listen to it first, but I don't know anyone in my area that has one. I'm going to put my other DAC up for sale and hopefully by the time I sell I can listen to the Spring.



Hey, I heard a Holo Spring dac at CanJam last weekend. Easily top 5 dac at the whole event to my ears, and that includes HE-1's, Dave, Hugo 2, and the Woo room's unobtanium dac. It's truly wonderful and very natural sounding if that's what you're after.

Edit: Pretty sure it was the Kitsune edition since it was at the Kitsune table.


----------



## jerick70

kyle1010 said:


> Hey, I heard a Holo Spring dac at CanJam last weekend. Easily top 5 dac at the whole event to my ears, and that includes HE-1's, Dave, Hugo 2, and the Woo room's unobtanium dac. It's truly wonderful and very natural sounding if that's what you're after.




The wonderful and the very natural sounding are exactly what I'm after.

I wonder how the synergy is with the Woo WA5? 

I think I'm just going to do it. Does it require a digital converter like the Singxer SU-1 to sound it's best out of the USB interface?


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> You are probably correct. It's going to be hard to find one to listen to soon. I can always wait until RMAF but that is pretty far off. I'll work it out.


 

 I was thinking this because you're not too far.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> I was thinking this because you're not too far.




I read somewhere that a demo unit was going around to head-fi members. I wonder if the demo unit is still available for auditions.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> The wonderful and the very natural sounding are exactly what I'm after.
> 
> I wonder how the synergy is with the Woo WA5?
> 
> I think I'm just going to do it.* Does it require a digital converter like the Singxer SU-1 to sound it's best out of the USB interface?*


 

 No, definitely not.
 But you know how this hobby goes, so I'm sure you'll end up with one.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I read somewhere that a demo unit was going around to head-fi members. I wonder if the demo unit is still available for auditions.


 

 Not to my knowledge, but this could very well be true.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> No, definitely not.
> But you know how this hobby goes, so I'm sure you'll end up with one.




That's good to hear. I was adding that into my list of items to buy, but I'll wait.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> Not to my knowledge, but this could very well be true.




I think it was through Kitsune Audio. I'll contact them and see what they say.


----------



## DavidRoss007

Thanks, thats what I read. Do you know why they changed the driver tubes since there is no sonic difference?


----------



## watchdog507

I've been tweaking my WA5-LE since I got it two months ago.  I've installed two Emission Labs EML 520B V3's for the power side.  I had Northern Electric 6SN7 tubes for the Drivers but I was less than pleased with the resolution of the trebles and upper mid range.  EML doesn't make a 6SN7 replacement so I went to my Sylvania 6F8G's with adapters.  Boy are they tight just barely squeeze by the 520's.  For Rectifiers I had Brimar 5Z4G's.  Supposedly a matched pair.  One failed after 3 months of use and the twin is running hotter so they are out for good. I've installed EML 5U4G's, big and beautiful, they are.  As a bonus they have a 5 year warranty if you register online.  Now the amp is really coming into it's own.  Depth, power, and detail especially in the upper range where I needed more resolution.  I'm happy with the set up (we'll see for how long?)


----------



## drbobbybones

watchdog507 said:


> I've been tweaking my WA5-LE since I got it two months ago.  I've installed two Emission Labs EML 520B V3's for the power side.  I had Northern Electric 6SN7 tubes for the Drivers but I was less than pleased with the resolution of the trebles and upper mid range.  EML doesn't make a 6SN7 replacement so I went to my Sylvania 6F8G's with adapters.  Boy are they tight just barely squeeze by the 520's.  For Rectifiers I had Brimar 5Z4G's.  Supposedly a matched pair.  One failed after 3 months of use and the twin is running hotter so they are out for good. I've installed EML 5U4G's, big and beautiful, they are.  As a bonus they have a 5 year warranty if you register online.  Now the amp is really coming into it's own.  Depth, power, and detail especially in the upper range where I needed more resolution.  I'm happy with the set up (we'll see for how long?)




That's looking very nice! The EML's seem like a pretty good value. At least compared to the NOS Western Electric tubes


----------



## watchdog507

drbobbybones said:


> That's looking very nice! The EML's seem like a pretty good value. At least compared to the NOS Western Electric tubes


 
 I like the quality of the EML's.  The glass is substantial and the elements are robust.  The quality is supported by their warranty of 5 years. At my age, I don't know that I'd notice a difference with Western Electric tubes.  At this point in time who knows the history of any given WE tube if you're looking at vintage.  The new ones are an option, but I just don't know if the build is truly magical.  My wallet would certainly notice though.  If anything, I might look at Takatsuki tubes at some point.


----------



## jhljhl

watchdog507 said:


> I've been tweaking my WA5-LE since I got it two months ago.  I've installed two Emission Labs EML 520B V3's for the power side.  I had Northern Electric 6SN7 tubes for the Drivers but I was less than pleased with the resolution of the trebles and upper mid range.  EML doesn't make a 6SN7 replacement so I went to my Sylvania 6F8G's with adapters.  Boy are they tight just barely squeeze by the 520's.  For Rectifiers I had Brimar 5Z4G's.  Supposedly a matched pair.  One failed after 3 months of use and the twin is running hotter so they are out for good. I've installed EML 5U4G's, big and beautiful, they are.  As a bonus they have a 5 year warranty if you register online.  Now the amp is really coming into it's own.  Depth, power, and detail especially in the upper range where I needed more resolution.  I'm happy with the set up (we'll see for how long?)


 

 What made you decide on the 520b? Usually I see the 300b or 300b-xls in the Woo.


----------



## watchdog507

I was looking for 300B tubes locally and these came to my attention. I fired off an email to Woo to verify compatibility and they gave thumbs up. So I went for them. I've been really pleased with the results. The 520B V3 are great tubes. They have very large plates and stand over 7 inches tall. I bought my stand to accommodate the tall tubes.


----------



## pippen99

watchdog507 said:


> I was looking for 300B tubes locally and these came to my attention. I fired off an email to Woo to verify compatibility and they gave thumbs up. So I went for them. I've been really pleased with the results. The 520B V3 are great tubes. The have very large plates and stand over 7 inches tall. I bought my stand to accommodate the tall tubes.


 
 I was about to ask if Woo signed off on the 520B.  Good to know.  What is your stand?  I only found one stand that the 2nd shelf was tall enough to fit the amp section and certainly did not find one that would hold nearly 80 lbs of WA5 on a single shelf.


----------



## watchdog507

pippen99 said:


> I was about to ask if Woo signed off on the 520B.  Good to know.  What is your stand?  I only found one stand that the 2nd shelf was tall enough to fit the amp section and certainly did not find one that would hold nearly 80 lbs of WA5 on a single shelf.


----------



## watchdog507

The stand is a Sonora 4 shelf. The shelves give you a lot of clearance. The shelves are tempered glass and are rated for quite a bit more weight than the WA5-LE. The other factors were width and depth. They are more than deep and wide enough. Price was reasonable and was available at one of my go to suppliers.


----------



## kyle1010

drbobbybones said:


> Couldn't agree more. The Chord DAVE is the most lifelike DAC I have ever heard. Much more so than the Yggdrasil. The headphone out is also quite good, and I use that frequently--almost as much as using the WA22 fed from the DAVE.
> 
> The lack of DSD is puzzling for an endgame amp like the Yggy. I use Roon and upsample to DSD 256--the sound is GLORIOUS! It would have been nice to have that option in the Schiit.




How does the WA22 sound fed from the Dave? Is it precise enough to keep up with Dave's lightning fast transient response? What tubes are you using? Hugo 2/WA22 w/ NOS tubes/LCD-4 is gonna be end game for me for a while. Gotta focus on the 2 channel system in the living room now. H2 is very close to Dave's SQ so I'm hoping when it arrives it'll play nice with the WA22.


----------



## kyle1010

leotis said:


> Only Schiit I've heard is the Yggy.
> So my suggestion is really just speculation.
> A lot of you will know way more about it than I do.



Welp, I guess I'm gonna have to convert you. Totally bringing Hugo 2 over for a good ol fashioned dac shootout. *evil laugh*


----------



## Leotis

kyle1010 said:


> Welp, I guess I'm gonna have to convert you. Totally bringing Hugo 2 over for a good ol fashioned dac shootout. *evil laugh*


 

 Hey Kyle,
 That would be cool.
 But who the convert is remains to be determined. *equally evil laugh*
 Check out Harley's review of Yggy in new TAS.
 PM me your email and I will send you a PDF.


----------



## drbobbybones

kyle1010 said:


> How does the WA22 sound fed from the Dave? Is it precise enough to keep up with Dave's lightning fast transient response? What tubes are you using? Hugo 2/WA22 w/ NOS tubes/LCD-4 is gonna be end game for me for a while. Gotta focus on the 2 channel system in the living room now. H2 is very close to Dave's SQ so I'm hoping when it arrives it'll play nice with the WA22.




The WA22 sounds awesome for the DAVE, but to be honest, I use it primarily for my HD800's only. I think the synergy with the HD800 is incredible, and they sound a bit too lean straight out of the DAVE.

Everything else I primarily run out of the DAVE's headphone out. I think the Utopia and the Eikon do usually sound better straight out of the DAVE, except for rock and hip-hop. The WA22 adds fullness and body to both for those genres.


----------



## kyle1010




----------



## kyle1010

drbobbybones said:


> The WA22 sounds awesome for the DAVE, but to be honest, I use it primarily for my HD800's only. I think the synergy with the HD800 is incredible, and they sound a bit too lean straight out of the DAVE.
> 
> Everything else I primarily run out of the DAVE's headphone out. I think the Utopia and the Eikon do usually sound better straight out of the DAVE, except for rock and hip-hop. The WA22 adds fullness and body to both for those genres.




Right on. So you don't lose much detail from the dave through WA22?


----------



## jhljhl

For those interested, I'm selling Western Electric 274a tubes and Cossar fat bottle GZ37 tubes in the classifieds.


----------



## drbobbybones

kyle1010 said:


> Right on. So you don't lose much detail from the dave through WA22?




I don't think you lose detail per se, but you do lose a bit of the transparency that the DAVE is known for. Different flavors for different moods. The WA22 adds some of that tube goodness which is awesome for relaxing or just rocking out.

That said, the WA33 from the ESS super DAC at CanJam was as holographic as I have ever heard. I'm gonna have to see how the WA33 pairs with the DAVE in the future.


----------



## kyle1010

drbobbybones said:


> I don't think you lose detail per se, but you do lose a bit of the transparency that the DAVE is known for. Different flavors for different moods. The WA22 adds some of that tube goodness which is awesome for relaxing or just rocking out.
> 
> That said, the WA33 from the ESS super DAC at CanJam was as holographic as I have ever heard. I'm gonna have to see how the WA33 pairs with the DAVE in the future.




Ahhh gotcha. Mojo-->WA22 has been holding me over til my Hugo 2 ships cuz after an hour or so warmup WA22 smooths over most Mojo shortcomings with tube magic. But man the LCD-4s are so revealing they are not liking the Mojo at all. It's grain city. Almost unlistenable tbh. Same thing with my new CA Vega IEMs. I think I'm just gonna have to wait for the H2 before another sesh, it's that bad. Mojo is incredible til you use more revealing cans then it's yuck especially in the highs.

But yeah that WA33/Abyss Phi/ESS combo was also as holographic as I'd ever heard from headphones too. I A/B tested my 4s with balanced dual 3 pin Alo Reference cable vs. Abyss Phi with its similar Kimber cable on that rig. I gotta say, my LCD-4s kept up extremely admirably, but the Abyss Phi won by a narrow margin. 4s were just trying to dazzle me with what those drivers can pull off with imaging, speed, and detail..which they did. Then Abyss came in like sit down kiddo this is how instruments actually sound. Timber was just barely more natural and realistic than LCD-4s. The Utopias through that same system were impressive but couldn't even sit at the cool kids table.


----------



## drbobbybones

kyle1010 said:


> Ahhh gotcha. Mojo-->WA22 has been holding me over til my Hugo 2 ships cuz after an hour or so warmup WA22 smooths over most Mojo shortcomings with tube magic. But man the LCD-4s are so revealing they are not liking the Mojo at all. It's grain city. Almost unlistenable tbh. Same thing with my new CA Vega IEMs. I think I'm just gonna have to wait for the H2 before another sesh, it's that bad. Mojo is incredible til you use more revealing cans then it's yuck especially in the highs.
> 
> But yeah that WA33/Abyss Phi/ESS combo was also as holographic as I'd ever heard from headphones too. I A/B tested my 4s with balanced dual 3 pin Alo Reference cable vs. Abyss Phi with its similar Kimber cable on that rig. I gotta say, my LCD-4s kept up extremely admirably, but the Abyss Phi won by a narrow margin. 4s were just trying to dazzle me with what those drivers can pull off with imaging, speed, and detail..which they did. Then Abyss came in like sit down kiddo this is how instruments actually sound. Timber was just barely more natural and realistic than LCD-4s. The Utopias through that same system were impressive but couldn't even sit at the cool kids table.


 

 I hear you on the Mojo.  I've tried to keep my mouth shut about it, as I don't love the sound of the Mojo with any top set of cans.  The treble roll-off is real and not desirable to me.  And the shape is hard to hold in my pocket.  Thus, I've simplified my on the go setup to a Campfire Andromeda with a Lightning connector.  Works a lot better for my on-the-go needs.  
  
 It's funny how we all hear things differently though.  I loved the Abyss Phi though the same setup, but I thought the Utopia really shined though it as well.  I think the Abyss might have too much bass for my tastes though.  And I don't know why it has to look like a halo gravity traction setup--can't some money be put into making the headphones look good and be comfortable to wear as well?  I find them so hard to get the fit right and be comfortable.  For $4000, headphones should be wearable IMHO.


----------



## kyle1010

drbobbybones said:


> I hear you on the Mojo.  I've tried to keep my mouth shut about it, as I don't love the sound of the Mojo with any top set of cans.  The treble roll-off is real and not desirable to me.  And the shape is hard to hold in my pocket.  Thus, I've simplified my on the go setup to a Campfire Andromeda with a Lightning connector.  Works a lot better for my on-the-go needs.
> 
> It's funny how we all hear things differently though.  I loved the Abyss Phi though the same setup, but I thought the Utopia really shined though it as well.  I think the Abyss might have too much bass for my tastes though.  And I don't know why it has to look like a halo gravity traction setup--can't some money be put into making the headphones look good and be comfortable to wear as well?  I find them so hard to get the fit right and be comfortable.  For $4000, headphones should be wearable IMHO.




Right? If they had a "normal" fit and adjustment band I'd already be trying to sell my 4s to get the Phi. But yeah haha we definitely have different tastes in sound signature..which is funny cuz you have Campfire Andromedas and I have the Vegas. Or your Utopias and my LCD-4s. I agree if you like more airy focused presentation then you have the right stuff, and that Utopia/WA33 combo would be the bees knees for you. I definitely like fuller sound hence my gear choice so our subjective opinions totally make sense. I like how we represent the dark side of the force and the light with our stuff lol. But we both dig Chord and Woo..that's so cool.

Anyway, how's that lightning cable for the Andromedas? Is the little builtin dac/amp better than the Apple adapter's? I tried to audition it at CanJam but the one they had wouldn't work on my iPhone 7


----------



## drbobbybones

kyle1010 said:


> Right? If they had a "normal" fit and adjustment band I'd already be trying to sell my 4s to get the Phi. But yeah haha we definitely have different tastes in sound signature..which is funny cuz you have Campfire Andromedas and I have the Vegas. Or your Utopias and my LCD-4s. I agree if you like more airy focused presentation then you have the right stuff, and that Utopia/WA33 combo would be the bees knees for you. I definitely like fuller sound hence my gear choice so our subjective opinions totally make sense.
> 
> Anyway, how's that lightning cable for the Andromedas? Is the little builtin dac/amp better than the Apple adapter's? I tried to audition it at CanJam but the one they had wouldn't work on my iPhone 7


 

 Just got it yesterday.  So far, it is great.  The sound is a touch darker than out of the 3.5mm and dongle, but there is no background hiss which is awesome.  They must have tweaked the output resistance to make it that way.  And I will do anything that will add simplicity to my on-the-go life.  The attached Lightning connector means no carrying around a portable DAC or losing the dongle in an airplane or airport.  Just can't wait until they make a Reference 8 cable with a Lightning connector--that would be my dream!
  
 And yes, different strokes for different folks.  The LCD-4's are awesome as well--I just prefer the presentation of the Utopia more, but that in no way makes the LCD-4 a bad headphone.  I'm just glad there are so many options for enthusiasts like us!


----------



## watchdog507

Here is a question for Woo WA5-LE/WA5 owners.  I have a WA5-LE with EML 520B V3 for power, EML 5U4G for rectification, and Sylvania 6F8G Tubes with adapters for drivers and a Furutech Audiophile fuse installed.  The most noticeable short coming of my Woo is that the last little bit of treble and resolution.  When I use my Violectric V281, I can hear the nuanced details of my music.  Such as the brushes touching the snare drum or the air around instruments and voices.  There is a layer of resolution missing on the Woo.  I've certainly spent a pile of money on tubes.  Based on other owners experience, were there any other changes that I can make?


----------



## leftside

I'd suggest the ECC31 or ECC32, but I don't think there is room in the WA5 (one of the reasons I don't own a WA5). Try the ECC33 or ECC35 instead.


----------



## pippen99

watchdog507 said:


> Here is a question for Woo WA5-LE/WA5 owners.  I have a WA5-LE with EML 520B V3 for power, EML 5U4G for rectification, and Sylvania 6F8G Tubes with adapters for drivers and a Furutech Audiophile fuse installed.  The most noticeable short coming of my Woo is that the last little bit of treble and resolution.  When I use my Violectric V281, I can hear the nuanced details of my music.  Such as the brushes touching the snare drum or the air around instruments and voices.  There is a layer of resolution missing on the Woo.  I've certainly spent a pile of money on tubes.  Based on other owners experience, were there any other changes that I can make?


 
 You might try the  WU4GB solid state rectifiers.  The biggest effect is to lower the noise floor to the point of non-existence but it might also accomplish what you are looking for.  I got mine from Ted Weber with shipping for only about $50.  A cheap experiment!  The website says only for guitar amplifiers but they work fine.  I eventually went back to the Sophia 274B as I found it made the WA5 a little too dry and clinical but I am keeping them as backup and for a different flavor.


----------



## jhljhl

watchdog507 said:


> Here is a question for Woo WA5-LE/WA5 owners.  I have a WA5-LE with EML 520B V3 for power, EML 5U4G for rectification, and Sylvania 6F8G Tubes with adapters for drivers and a Furutech Audiophile fuse installed.  The most noticeable short coming of my Woo is that the last little bit of treble and resolution.  When I use my Violectric V281, I can hear the nuanced details of my music.  Such as the brushes touching the snare drum or the air around instruments and voices.  There is a layer of resolution missing on the Woo.  I've certainly spent a pile of money on tubes.  Based on other owners experience, were there any other changes that I can make?


 

 It isn't a highly resolving amp. It is more euphonic than analytical.   But try ecc35 and tungsol 6sn7 vt-231- the sylvanias are not the best.


----------



## musicman59

leftside said:


> I'd suggest the ECC31 or ECC32, but I don't think there is room in the WA5 (one of the reasons I don't own a WA5). Try the ECC33 or ECC35 instead.


 
 Yes, there is room I have tried the Mullard ECC32 in a WA5-LE. It tight but they fit.


----------



## musicman59

watchdog507 said:


> Here is a question for Woo WA5-LE/WA5 owners.  I have a WA5-LE with EML 520B V3 for power, EML 5U4G for rectification, and Sylvania 6F8G Tubes with adapters for drivers and a Furutech Audiophile fuse installed.  The most noticeable short coming of my Woo is that the last little bit of treble and resolution.  When I use my Violectric V281, I can hear the nuanced details of my music.  Such as the brushes touching the snare drum or the air around instruments and voices.  There is a layer of resolution missing on the Woo.  I've certainly spent a pile of money on tubes.  Based on other owners experience, were there any other changes that I can make?


 
 IMO your issue is the EML tubes. I used to have the EML 5U4G and the 300b Mesh. My personal opinion is that the EML sound is relaxed and warm. If that what you like then they are excellent tubes. If you want faster sound with more spark and detail I personally like the EAT 300b for that and the Brimar 5R4GY rectifiers.
 I really like the sound of the 6F8G specially the ones with round plates and black glass but for the sound I think you are looking for you can try the Sylvania 6SN7WGT short bottle, brown base, chrome top. I have never try the Taks.


----------



## jhljhl

musicman59 said:


> IMO your issue is the EML tubes. I used to have the EML 5U4G and the 300b Mesh. My personal opinion is that the EML sound is relaxed and warm. If that what you like then they are excellent tubes. If you want faster sound with more spark and detail I personally like the EAT 300b for that and the Brimar 5R4GY rectifiers.
> I really like the sound of the 6F8G specially the ones with round plates and black glass but for the sound I think you are looking for you can try the Sylvania 6SN7WGT short bottle, brown base, chrome top. I have never try the Taks.


 

 It might also be your dac. The Auralic Vega is a more analytical dac but euphonic. I think the eml are more hifi sounding and chinese 300b to be more lush and warm.  Try also metal 5ar4 mullards.


----------



## watchdog507

jhljhl said:


> It might also be your dac. The Auralic Vega is a more analytical dac but euphonic. I think the eml are more hifi sounding and chinese 300b to be more lush and warm.  Try also metal 5ar4 mullards.


 
 I have the Mytek Brooklyn and if I didn't have a way to do a quick "A" to "B" between the V281 and the WA5-LE It would have been a possibility.  In this case the source is excellent.  It's the Amp that's affecting the output.  V281 is absolutely magic in detail. WA5-LE is good but just missing that last little resolution.  As for the EML Tubes, yes they are clean and analytical but what I'm hearing is good.  My suspicion is the driver tubes. 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  WA5-LE is good but just missing that last little resolution.


----------



## watchdog507

musicman59 said:


> IMO your issue is the EML tubes. I used to have the EML 5U4G and the 300b Mesh. My personal opinion is that the EML sound is relaxed and warm. If that what you like then they are excellent tubes. If you want faster sound with more spark and detail I personally like the EAT 300b for that and the Brimar 5R4GY rectifiers.
> I really like the sound of the 6F8G specially the ones with round plates and black glass but for the sound I think you are looking for you can try the Sylvania 6SN7WGT short bottle, brown base, chrome top. I have never try the Taks.


 
 I had a pair of Brimar 5Z4G from Langrex.  One of tubes was running noticeably hotter than the other and it's partner died after less than 3 months.  My guess is just bad tubes.  While they worked they gave me a very "wooly" bass and not a lot of gain in current.  I was able to dial back from 1:00 O'clock to 11:00 O'clock when i received the EML 5U4G's. The sound is relaxed and warm but the resolution is there just slightly out of reach.  My leaning is to the Driver tubes.  Maybe Tung Sol 6SN7 VT231?  I have a box of 6SN7's and I might start working through them this weekend. I also picked up a pair of new Black Treasure 50th Anniversary 300B's for a change of pace. We'll see if these changes make a difference.


----------



## jhljhl

watchdog507 said:


> I had a pair of Brimar 5Z4G from Langrex.  One of tubes was running noticeably hotter than the other and it's partner died after less than 3 months.  My guess is just bad tubes.  While they worked they gave me a very "wooly" bass and not a lot of gain in current.  I was able to dial back from 1:00 O'clock to 11:00 O'clock when i received the EML 5U4G's. The sound is relaxed and warm but the resolution is there just slightly out of reach.  My leaning is to the Driver tubes.  Maybe Tung Sol 6SN7 VT231?  I have a box of 6SN7's and I might start working through them this weekend. I also picked up a pair of new Black Treasure 50th Anniversary 300B's for a change of pace. We'll see if these changes make a difference.


 

 The Black Treasures are warm tubes that sound very euphonic.  They are a value now at partsconnexion.


----------



## kyle1010

Anybody ever clean the pins on their tubes? Does it make an audible difference? My Sylvania metal base 6SN7 pins could use some work. Any recommendations on what to use? Soft wire brush?


----------



## phase0

watchdog507 said:


> Here is a question for Woo WA5-LE/WA5 owners.  I have a WA5-LE with EML 520B V3 for power, EML 5U4G for rectification, and Sylvania 6F8G Tubes with adapters for drivers and a Furutech Audiophile fuse installed.  The most noticeable short coming of my Woo is that the last little bit of treble and resolution.  When I use my Violectric V281, I can hear the nuanced details of my music.  Such as the brushes touching the snare drum or the air around instruments and voices.  There is a layer of resolution missing on the Woo.  I've certainly spent a pile of money on tubes.  Based on other owners experience, were there any other changes that I can make?


 
  
 The best driver tubes IMO are the TungSol round plate 6F8G, next would be the National Union 6C8G (I tried 6F8G and one was noisy which is apparently something that happens with the NU 6F8G in the WA5). You could try ECC35 I have a pair of Mullards but I like the TSRP 6F8G just a little bit more and the last I looked at the cost of more ECC35 it looks much higher. The rest of the 6F8G didn't sound as good IMO. Finding a pair of TSRP would be worth the effort. With my setup I still think the V281 is slightly more detailed in some way but I spend more time on the WA5 as a preference. You could try the Weber WU4GB SS rectifiers, those are cheap and some people said they felt that performed better than that Taks but it's not a tube purist solution.


----------



## phase0

kyle1010 said:


> Anybody ever clean the pins on their tubes? Does it make an audible difference? My Sylvania metal base 6SN7 pins could use some work. Any recommendations on what to use? Soft wire brush?


 
  
 Try DeOxit (amazon has it). You may find clean pins will produce some more dirt after that. I have had some noisy tubes from eBay either fixed 99+% or noise reduced from unacceptable to barely audible during silences. I think the consensus was to try and remove residues. I've had some luck with rubbing alcohol but it doesn't work as well as Deoxit.


----------



## Contrails

Sell the Wa5 and get a Glenn 300b/EC Studio instead? I think tubes only result in minor changes. 

I get the same feeling when I listen to my WA22, that there's a Veil covering the finer details. I haven't heard a V281 but I did own a V200 once.


----------



## leftside

DeOxit does the job - just a little. Also be sure to give the pins a "rinse" with isopropyl alcohol afterwards to remove any junk. Apply with a cotton bud/swab.


----------



## leftside

contrails said:


> Sell the Wa5 and get a Glenn 300b/EC Studio instead? I think tubes only result in minor changes.
> 
> I get the same feeling when I listen to my WA22, that there's a Veil covering the finer details. I haven't heard a V281 but I did own a V200 once.


 
 I have a Glenn 300B arriving next week. I've typically found there are bigger differences with sources though - for example my DAC sounds very different to my turntable setup. The turntable setup is very warm and relaxed (but sometimes sounds a little dull on some tracks) whereas the DAC is very dynamic with a wider soundstage (but sometimes sounds a little metallic or bright on some tracks). I can run both at the same time through my preamp, so it makes for interesting comparisons. Some tracks I prefer on vinyl, others through the DAC.
  
 I'll also be able to run both headphone amps at the same time through my preamp, and will just need to unplug the headphones from one amp and plug into the other to make comparisons. I find I need to make the comparisons as quickly as possible to give a fair assessment.
  
 From the descriptions of the V281, it might sound a little dry with my DAC, but could be ideal with my turntable. I'm not a fan of the design and that large knob though.


----------



## watchdog507

I'm using the balanced and single ended Mytek outputs. XLR to WA5 and rca to V281 so I can make quick comparisons.
I'm going to roll more driver tubes to see if I can resolve this. Other than that I just love to look at and listen to music through the Woo. I may just live with it!


----------



## Contrails

You can also try the Tung Sol 6SU7GTY black glass brown base. A 6SL7 substitute. They are cheaper than most 6SN7 tubes. But they give a higher gain. A musical but detailed tube. Extendeds well on both ends with a nice soundstage.


----------



## watchdog507

I have a box of 40 tested but unsorted 6SN7 tubes that I bought months ago.  I laid them all out and matched them up based on make, construction and test scores.  I tried a few pairs of what looked like NOS RCA and GE tubes.  I wasn't blown away with the results.  I found a Marconi and a Magnavox tube that were identical construction with a diagonal "O" getter between plates and identical plates right down to copper wiring and stampings.  These went in and were different from the start.  They certainly went a long way to improving the resolution and bumping up the treble clarity.  For now I'm satisfied.  I'll still try to find the Tung Sol Tubes as an option.


----------



## gug42

Hello,
  
 I'd like to know if someone find new production tubes for WA6SE powertubes  ( 6DE7, 6EW7, 6EM7, 6DN7, 6FD7) ?
 I have search on google and many sites without success.
  
  
 Thank you in advance !
  
  
 (I know that nos is supérior, but well really like to know if there will be tubes available in the next decade  )


----------



## watchdog507

gug42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to know if someone find new production tubes for WA6SE powertubes  ( 6DE7, 6EW7, 6EM7, 6DN7, 6FD7) ?
> I have search on google and many sites without success.
> ...


 
 Get an adapter 6SN7>6DE7 there are all sorts of new production tubes. There are tube adapters out there for other tubes.  You'll never run out of tubes.  The market has a way of filling voids where there is an opportunity.


----------



## gug42

Unlucky the 6SN7  are'nt compatible with WA6*SE*
  
 cu


----------



## watchdog507

gug42 said:


> Unlucky the 6SN7  are'nt compatible with WA6*SE*
> 
> cu


 
 I just went back to the compatibility chart and you're right.  I'm surprised that Woo made the the WA6-SE with limited tube compatibility.


----------



## joseph69

gug42 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I went back to the WA6 from the SE because I didn't realize this when I bought the SE.


----------



## andru26

Hi,
  
 I just read your post and I wanted to ask our opinion about Viablue vs. BDR spikes. Which one gave you better results? Did you find one would work better under a particular component than the other?
  
 Many thanks!


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> DeOxit does the job - just a little. Also be sure to give the pins a "rinse" with isopropyl alcohol afterwards to remove any junk. Apply with a cotton bud/swab.




Awesome. Which Deoxit though? Spray, wipes, tube of liquid? Can you shoot me a link to the specific product you use?


----------



## phase0

kyle1010 said:


> Awesome. Which Deoxit though? Spray, wipes, tube of liquid? Can you shoot me a link to the specific product you use?


 
  
 This is what I got:
  
https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-SKGXMDBULK-Deoxit-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA


----------



## leftside

Yeah the red stuff in that bottle.


----------



## kyle1010

phase0 said:


> This is what I got:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-SKGXMDBULK-Deoxit-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA




Sweet, ok I'll order that. Thanks guys!


----------



## gug42

watchdog507 said:


> I just went back to the compatibility chart and you're right.  I'm surprised that Woo made the the WA6-SE with limited tube compatibility.


 
  
 It seems to be about power  capacity.
 6DE7 and other : 0,9 A
 6SN7 and other : 0,6A
  


joseph69 said:


> I went back to the WA6 from the SE because I didn't realize this when I bought the SE.


 
  
 I see some people doing that .... but well with an orhto I prefer to have more ouput power, am I wrong ?
  
  
 Another question : does a tube need a "burn in" time ?
  
 Regards,


----------



## gug42

Another question 
  
 did you know if I can  use 5V3  tube in WA6SE ?


----------



## watchdog507

gug42 said:


> Another question
> 
> did you know if I can  use 5V3  tube in WA6SE ?


 
 It's not on the compatibility chart from Woo.  You can contact Michael Liang at Woo for specific tube compatibility questions: mike@wooaudio.com


----------



## joseph69

gug42 said:


> gug42 said:
> 
> 
> > Another question
> ...


 
  
 No right or wrong it's just a matter of preference. The WA6 was plenty powerful for my needs being I have easily driven headphones, so going back to the WA6 with more tube rolling options was a better choice for me.
  
 I don't know which tubes the SE can use, and unfortunately it seems the "Woo Audio Compatibility Chart" is no longer available when I just checked. It may have been outdated, and there could be a more current one? 
If anyone has a more current chart, I would appreciate the link, thank you.
  
 Yes, tubes need burn-in time.


----------



## gug42

joseph69 said:


> No right or wrong it's just a matter of preference. The WA6 was plenty powerful for my needs being I have easily driven headphones, so going back to the WA6 with more tube rolling options was a better choice for me.


 
  
 Of course, wrong explanation :
 For my self I have choose to reduce tube rolling possibility but to have a more powerfull amp who cover more "usecase"/headphones.
  


> I don't know which tubes the SE can use, and unfortunately it seems the "Woo Audio Compatibility Chart" is no longer available when I just checked. It may have been outdated, and there could be a more current one?
> If anyone has a more current chart, I would appreciate the link, thank you.
> 
> Yes, tubes need burn-in time.


 
  
 Perhaps an update concernant the new version of wa6 and wa6se ? 
 Ok thank you for the respond : need some time to compare my new brimar 5Z4GY 
  
  
 Regards,


----------



## u2u2

joseph69 said:


> No right or wrong it's just a matter of preference. The WA6 was plenty powerful for my needs being I have easily driven headphones, so going back to the WA6 with more tube rolling options was a better choice for me.
> 
> I don't know which tubes the SE can use, and unfortunately it seems the "Woo Audio Compatibility Chart" is no longer available when I just checked. It may have been outdated, and there could be a more current one?
> If anyone has a more current chart, I would appreciate the link, thank you.
> ...


 
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml
  
 The Woo chart is still there...


----------



## gug42

Hum where can I find the "Glenn's adapters" for wa6se please ?
(can search in the thread with the new forum  )

REgards,


----------



## Jonman503

I am pretty new here, just bought myself a used maxed out Wa6 with a Mullard GZ32/CV593 rectifier. and it came with a bunch of driver tubes, so far I really like the RCA 6FD7 and the RCA Fat Bottle 6GL7. I really want to try one of the 274B rectifier tubes, do y'all think they would be a decent upgrade from the current Mullard I am running? Any other advice on tubes and such are welcome!


----------



## joseph69

gug42 said:


> Hum where can I find the "Glenn's adapters" for wa6se please ?
> (can search in the thread with the new forum  )
> .


Send Glenn a PM @2359glenn and ask if he will make them for you


----------



## gug42 (Apr 29, 2017)

Thx 

Pm send, crossfinger is still craft them


----------



## Jonman503

gug42 said:


> Thx
> 
> Pm send, crossfinger is still craft them


to use 6sn7 tubes? I'm interested in that too.


----------



## DavidRoss007

Just got a wa6 with Sophia princess upgrades for my birthday today from my wonderful wife (luv you honey) Burning it in as I am typing this and already, taking my breath away


----------



## watchdog507

DavidRoss007 said:


> Just got a wa6 with Sophia princess upgrades for my birthday today from my wonderful wife (luv you honey) Burning it in as I am typing this and already, taking my breath away



The WA6 USA great Amp, congratulations!  I vaguely remember the days when my wife supported my hobbies.  There is a lot of experience here about tube rolling. You have many great options.


----------



## DavidRoss007

watchdog507 said:


> The WA6 USA great Amp, congratulations!  I vaguely remember the days when my wife supported my hobbies.  There is a lot of experience here about tube rolling. You have many great options.


Cheers, I have wanted one for quite a while. can't seem to post a pic of it but it's beautiful and I'm hearing all sorts of new stuff in my music


----------



## DavidRoss007

So i was up till 3 am listening  and thought I would share my system and what was in the WA6's place before.
My system now is

HP laptop running all flac files
Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100
AKG Q701
Woo WA, 2nd generation with Sophia Princess and 13EM7 plus one pair of 13EM7->13DE7 Teflon tube adapters.

My previous amp was a little dot 1+ and I was very happy with it, but not now 

I couldn't be happier and since im off work today, im going to buy some Cd's


----------



## gug42 (May 3, 2017)

Hello,

Did you know where to buy an after market 6em7 -> 6ed7 adapter ? (9 pins to 8 pin)

Is this kind of stuff could work  ? 
http://m.ebay.fr/itm/1-6SN7-To-12AU...-Socket-Adapter-6-3V-/282369339051?nav=SEARCH


----------



## watchdog507

gug42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Did you know where to buy an after market 6em7 -> 6ed7 adapter ? (9 pins to 8 pin)
> 
> ...


The adapters work.  I've probably bought 5 different pairs depending on the amp. The ones from WOO are better but very expensive.  WOO adapters are teflon with gold plate.  The Chinese adapters are usually ceramic or bakelite. The Ceramic are white and the bakelite are usually brown or black.


----------



## watchdog507

The Sophia 274B's are a lovely tube.  They look great when they are lit up.  They sound good too.


----------



## DavidRoss007

watchdog507 said:


> The Sophia 274B's are a lovely tube.  They look great when they are lit up.  They sound good too.


I cant agree more. I am having a small problem with my Q701's there are some parting in songs where the upper registry seems to get very harsh, I did notice it on my old little dot but its very pronounce now.


----------



## gug42 (May 4, 2017)

watchdog507 said:


> The adapters work.  I've probably bought 5 different pairs depending on the amp. The ones from WOO are better but very expensive.  WOO adapters are teflon with gold plate.  The Chinese adapters are usually ceramic or bakelite. The Ceramic are white and the bakelite are usually brown or black.



Thank you for your answear. Sorry for double check  :  despite it is mentionned 6sn7 to 12au7, it's ok to do 6em7 to 6de7  ? 

What will be your recommandation : bacalite or ceramic ? 
Agree about woo adapater, better but no cost effective just for a sound test.


----------



## watchdog507

Functionally the ceramic and bakelite are identical. I like the look of the ceramic and brass.   Some of the adapters have very tight sockets and very sharp pins so beware.


----------



## gug42

Thank you for your answer. I prefer the ceramic look too


----------



## gug42

From your experience, what tubes give the more sweat, smooth and mellow sounds (specially for high and high-mids) for a wa6 please ?


----------



## gug42

Hello,

I quote this old message.  Can you describe with details the internal construction/build of thoses 6DE7 ?
They have a shield between the two parts ?   The cathoed seems "boxed" and not flat ?

Regards,




archigius said:


> By comparison, the 6DE7 i had seemed more airy.
> 
> I had these Zenith 6DE7 on my Woo 6, they seems like rebranded RCA, can anyone confirm?


----------



## gug42

Xcalibur255 said:


> *RCA 6DE7 (1960 vintage, black/grey plate with shield divider)* - These tubes live up to their reputation. Fast, dynamic, punchy, detailed. A lot of my impressions about the small bottle 6FD7 are similar here, only more so. My opinion of this tube is similar to what I've heard from others to be honest. It's a very fast and dynamic tube for rock, but has a small soundstage and doesn't flatter anything smooth or airy sounding like Jazz or piano. Bass notes hit with great speed and slam, and are clean and detailed. Treble is refined and reasonably well extended, with a very natural vocal presentation. It feels balanced from top to bottom with no peakiness anywhere in the frequency spectrum. This is a very revealing tube, but the small soundstage tends to pack all of those details into a rather confined space so there is not much air or space between instruments. Separation is still great though, especially between individual notes. The thing I miss the most is the lack of ambience and note decay. Where as the 6FD7 tends to hold sustained notes for a long time, the 6DE7 cuts them off quickly creating a cleaner and faster sound with no overhang but also no richness or ambience. It really is a matter of personal preference as I don't think one is more right than the other, but each complements certain types of music better than the other. If I had to pick only one to live with it would be the 6FD7 because I love the longer note decay, but I would miss being able to hear the cleaner bass and note detailing of the 6DE7.
> 
> Overall a lot to like. Detailed, but very refined. I didn't hear a harsh note anywhere in the sample songs I played. I see why so many people pair these with the Sophia. It's huge soundstage combined with the fast dynamics of this tube would end up with a very nice middle of the road balance.
> 
> ...



Can't say it better !


----------



## gug42 (May 5, 2017)

I have two pair of 6FD7 :
- one with two black plates,
- one with a grey plate  and a little black plate

Any idea of the brands it could be ?  No shield for both of them ...

I test the grey plate : well really good. Great bass extension, smoother than RCA 6DE7.  Well A little less dynamic too (so smoother i think) and a little less impact (so less "agressive" perhaps).


----------



## Xcalibur255 (May 5, 2017)

Wow I haven't posted in this thread in years.  The new forum software alerts you when somebody quotes and I got curious and clicked.  

The 6FD7 tubes where both plates are black are rare.  As far as any of us could determine they represented the early production of the tube.  It should be an RCA, though looking back we made a lot of assumptions about brands and nobody really cared enough about tubes like this to really track down production codes or plant origins.

I stumbled into a pair of 6FD7 big bottle black plates by coincidence, and up to the moment I sold my WA6 they were hands down the best sounding tubes I ever had for the amp within the 6DE7/6FD7/6EW7 tube family.  There was simply more of the good stuff, they came closer in sound to a good 6SN7 than the rest of their kind.

I remember writing a long post about the tubes that stirred up some interest, but nobody else was able to find another pair of them.  If your 6FD7 is fat bottle and dual black plate then you have a great find.  Enjoy them!

edit:  you know..... if you bought your WA6 used there's a considerable chance that those tubes used to be mine actually!


----------



## gug42 (May 5, 2017)

Xcalibur255 said:


> Quote to have your opinion



Great to see you !   Well your opinion (from my reading) was always really impresive !
By the way one positive/good thing about this new forums !! not too soon 

A  Zenith one and no brand ... It will be fun if it was yours ! I have buy a second hand wa6se.
For me, with my zmf blackwood and Brimar 5Z5GY, really close to RCA 6DE7 with shield (i hope to get some Tung sol 6DE7).

By the way, two question :
- Can you point me some good money value 6SN7 ? 
   * Sylvania 6SN7WGT ?
   * Tung-Sol Black Plate D Getter 6SN7GTB ?
   * 6SN7 EH Golds Pins ?
    * others stuff ?

- What amp did you use now ?

By the way from now I prefer 6DE7 over 6FD7 

Thank you !


----------



## bfreedma

gug42 said:


> Great to see you !   Well your opinion (from my reading) was always really impresive !
> By the way one positive/good thing about this new forums !! not too soon
> 
> A  Zenith one and no brand ... It will be fun if it was yours ! I have buy a second hand wa6se.
> ...



If you have a 6SE, 6sn7s are not compatible.  They do work in the wa6 with an adapter.


----------



## watchdog507

gug42 said:


> Great to see you !   Well your opinion (from my reading) was always really impresive !
> By the way one positive/good thing about this new forums !! not too soon
> 
> A  Zenith one and no brand ... It will be fun if it was yours ! I have buy a second hand wa6se.
> ...


I have a WOO WA5-LE and I had a hard time getting a 6SN7 tube that would would give me presence and resolution at higher frequencies it always seemed smeared or recessed.  In the pack of tubes I have, I found two matching tubes.  Matched not by brand by construction. One was a Marconi short bottle with a red base and horizontal horseshoe getter and internal copper wires.  I  found a Magnavox tube with the exact  same construction.  Just a different black base.  These are identified by the chrome flash on the side of the tubes from the getter doing it's job.  These can sometimes be found for a reasonable price in a well know auction site.  These were the best sounding tubes that I tried out of probably ten pairs.


----------



## gug42 (May 6, 2017)

bfreedma said:


> If you have a 6SE, 6sn7s are not compatible.  They do work in the wa6 with an adapter.



There is some possibility  



watchdog507 said:


> I have a WOO WA5-LE and I had a hard time getting a 6SN7 tube that would would give me presence and resolution at higher frequencies it always seemed smeared or recessed.  In the pack of tubes I have, I found two matching tubes.  Matched not by brand by construction. One was a Marconi short bottle with a red base and horizontal horseshoe getter and internal copper wires.  I  found a Magnavox tube with the exact  same construction.  Just a different black base.  These are identified by the chrome flash on the side of the tubes from the getter doing it's job.  These can sometimes be found for a reasonable price in a well know auction site.  These were the best sounding tubes that I tried out of probably ten pairs.



Thank you  !  Get it  ! Grey or black plate  ?

For my part I'm looking for depth bass, with impactfull, a rich sound, good mids and really smooth and mellow high (ok for rolled off high)


----------



## watchdog507

gug42 said:


> There is some possibility
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are grey plates with 2 rectangular hole on the sides of each plate.

The bass is usually not a problem with these tubes.  It's controlled and extended.  Although if you have a WA6 your rectifier will have a more noticeable  effect on the bass.


----------



## bfreedma

gug42 said:


> There is some possibility
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Woo Audio has been very specific regarding not using 6sn7s with the 6SE.  If you go and ahead, be aware that there is a chance you will damage your amp and/or blow the tubes.

Some 6SE owners who wanted to use 6sn7s sold their 6SE and purchased a WA6.  Check out some of Joseph's posts from a while back - he described his move and reasoning in detail.


----------



## gug42

watchdog507 said:


> They are grey plates with 2 rectangular hole on the sides of each plate.
> 
> The bass is usually not a problem with these tubes.  It's controlled and extended.  Although if you have a WA6 your rectifier will have a more noticeable  effect on the bass.



Ok thank you ! I have a brimar 5Z4GY, a RCA 5U4G, burn-in GZ34  and waiting a 5931 for rectifier part 




bfreedma said:


> Woo Audio has been very specific regarding not using 6sn7s with the 6SE.  If you go and ahead, be aware that there is a chance you will damage your amp and/or blow the tubes.
> 
> Some 6SE owners who wanted to use 6sn7s sold their 6SE and purchased a WA6.  Check out some of Joseph's posts from a while back - he described his move and reasoning in detail.



Yeah I know. Normally I could have special adapter. If not I will probably thinking this move.

Regards,


----------



## watchdog507

gug42 said:


> Ok thank you ! I have a brimar 5Z4GY, a RCA 5U4G, burn-in GZ34  and waiting a 5931 for rectifier part
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The issue is not the adapter which matches up tube pins in sockets to the base socket, it's tube specifications that are incompatible.


----------



## gug42

Yep i know


----------



## Xcalibur255 (May 6, 2017)

gug42 said:


> There is some possibility
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If mellow and rich are your highest priorities then you might like the National Union black glass 6SN7GT.  Keep in mind you'll sacrifice a bit of resolution, but the mids are very euphonic and they are very mellow.  They might not give you the bass you want though.  A KenRad 6SN7GT will give you the bass reponse you want and is also a fairly rich sounding tube in the mids, but they can be a bit grainy on the top at times.  These characteristics can be tweaked by your rectifier choice as well.  If you want to make your amp more mellow you run a rectifier with high voltage drop like the 5U4G or 5R4GY (a personal favorite of mine for this amp).  If you want to make the sound faster and more aggressive then run a 5AR4 or a GZ37.

My personal favorites were Sylvania 6SN7 tubes.  The early 50's GT tubes where the silver getter flash looks like it covers the entire tube almost down the plastic base had a great balanced sound I really enjoyed in that amp.  They're not "mellow" per se though, most Sylvania tubes some degree of midrange or treble emphasis.  Exactly where varies a lot among the different years and design variants.  Arguably the best value in 6SN7s is the Tung Sol early 50's grey t-plate.  Often called the "mouse ear" Tung-Sol, the ones with the same plates but missing the actual suacer shaped spacers that look like mouse ears are a total steal.  They sell for cheap and sound exactly the same, and are one of the best sound 6SN7 tubes overall.  Balanced, detailed with great speed and bass slam, but these are NOT a laid back tube.  They have great speed and energy and are lively sounding.  If you want clarity without spending a fortune this is a tremendous value in the NOS tube world.

Also, a side note about the 6SN7 and the WA6SE.  You technically can run this tube but the adapters need to have an internal resistor inside to step down the voltage otherwise you will nuke the tube.  It's not something I recommend unless you are comfortable and understand what's going on with the amp electrically that makes it safe or unsafe.


----------



## gug42 (May 6, 2017)

Xcalibur255 said:


> If mellow and rich are your highest priorities then you might like the National Union black glass 6SN7GT.  Keep in mind you'll sacrifice a bit of resolution, but the mids are very euphonic and they are very mellow.  They might not give you the bass you want though.  A KenRad 6SN7GT will give you the bass reponse you want and is also a fairly rich sounding tube in the mids, but they can be a bit grainy on the top at times.  These characteristics can be tweaked by your rectifier choice as well.  If you want to make your amp more mellow you run a rectifier with high voltage drop like the 5U4G or 5R4GY (a personal favorite of mine for this amp).  If you want to make the sound faster and more aggressive then run a 5AR4 or a GZ37.



Thanks a lot about thoses descriptions !
About rectifier I will have the all complete set. Good things, i will receive in the next (days/weeks) a 5931 and a Sylvania 5U4GB   I alreay have Brimar 5ZG4Y, GZ34 (5AR4 familly), GZ32.

The "best" in voltage drop seems to be 5Y3 familly. Any opinion about them ?



Xcalibur255 said:


> My personal favorites were Sylvania 6SN7 tubes.  The early 50's GT tubes where the silver getter flash looks like it covers the entire tube almost down the plastic base had a great balanced sound I really enjoyed in that amp.  They're not "mellow" per se though, most Sylvania tubes some degree of midrange or treble emphasis.  Exactly where varies a lot among the different years and design variants.  Arguably the best value in 6SN7s is the Tung Sol early 50's grey t-plate.  Often called the "mouse ear" Tung-Sol, the ones with the same plates but missing the actual suacer shaped spacers that look like mouse ears are a total steal.  They sell for cheap and sound exactly the same, and are one of the best sound 6SN7 tubes overall.  Balanced, detailed with great speed and bass slam, but these are NOT a laid back tube.  They have great speed and energy and are lively sounding.  If you want clarity without spending a fortune this are a tremendous value in the NOS tube world.



Again thank you.
I have in mind a Sylvania 6SN7WGT with a huge dome wich cover half of the tube. Brawn base, green writing.
I will look for this tung sol too  Well if not expensive, i will must try them I suppose.

I'm ok to make some trade off. Loose micro details, soundstage or 3D.



Xcalibur255 said:


> Also, a side note about the 6SN7 and the WA6SE.  You technically can run this tube but the adapters need to have an internal resistor inside to step down the voltage otherwise you will nuke the tube.  It's not something I recommend unless you are comfortable and understand what's going on with the amp electrically that makes it safe or unsafe.



A really good craftsmanship and a possionate is building there  Hope to get them soon


----------



## joseph69

I too am am a fan of the NOS 6SN7 & 5692 as well.


----------



## lfsszd

Hi there!
I recently got my wa5. I am using Sylvania 5U4GB tubes with it, but I find people like to use new rectifiers tubes. Have any body compared NOS 5U4Gs and new 5U4Gs?


----------



## watchdog507 (May 8, 2017)

https://goo.gl/photos/5KvaYZm9nYoGUyWU9

The Psvane 274B my WA5-LE came with were OK but seemed impart some harshness to the sound.  I used pair of the Brimar 5Z4G, one of which I had in my WA6.  The sound was OK not great.  Wooly would be the best adjective. I also had a problem with both of the tubes.  One outright failed after 3 months. They other's filaments were working overtime and will fail soon.  I went to new construction 5U4G EML Tubes and I've never looked back..  They put out more power and I was able to dial back the volume from 1 O'clock back to 11 O'clock.  They sound clear and effortless.  If anything they don't create drama, just music.  Very good music at that. The new site is a pain. The image is rotated and I can't correct it easily.  Nothing here works right except the advertisements.


----------



## leftside

https://savolai.net/software/JPEG-EXIF_autorotate

https://adblockplus.org/


----------



## watchdog507

I tried the auto rotate software.  The web site software changed the orientation to the other direction.  I gave up and used google images.  I'm disappointed that basic functionality is still flumoxed here.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gug42 said:


> Thanks a lot about thoses descriptions !
> 
> The "best" in voltage drop seems to be 5Y3 familly. Any opinion about them ?



5Y3G tubes have quite a bit of voltage sag under maximum load.  Similar to a 5U4G but with lower max current capabilities.  The WA6 only has a 36mA B+ requirement when operating with 6SN7 tubes though, and represents an easy job for any rectifier regardless of its max ratings.  I actually never tried a 5Y3 in mine, I tried many rectifiers but that wasn't one of them.  In the Inspire IHA-1 I found it a pleasant but soft sounding tube, and while the design is different the drive tube setup and total B+ requirement is exactly the same so the impression should carry over more or less.

If you haven't tried a good 5R4GY rectifier I highly recommend them.  I think they might offer the sound you're looking for.  The european ones such as Philips and Brimar are the best of the bunch, but there are some really nice sounding american made ones too.  The older military tubes RCA made in the 40's and early 50's are your best bet there, and it shouldn't be hard to find one for $30 or less if you look around.


----------



## gug42

Xcalibur255 said:


> 5Y3G tubes have quite a bit of voltage sag under maximum load.  Similar to a 5U4G but with lower max current capabilities.  The WA6 only has a 36mA B+ requirement when operating with 6SN7 tubes though, and represents an easy job for any rectifier regardless of its max ratings.  I actually never tried a 5Y3 in mine, I tried many rectifiers but that wasn't one of them.  In the Inspire IHA-1 I found it a pleasant but soft sounding tube, and while the design is different the drive tube setup and total B+ requirement is exactly the same so the impression should carry over more or less.
> 
> If you haven't tried a good 5R4GY rectifier I highly recommend them.  I think they might offer the sound you're looking for.  The european ones such as Philips and Brimar are the best of the bunch, but there are some really nice sounding american made ones too.  The older military tubes RCA made in the 40's and early 50's are your best bet there, and it shouldn't be hard to find one for $30 or less if you look around.



Thank you for your advise ! 

Indeed I will try a 5Y3 to see the result.

I have two other rectifier to burn-in and test : GZ34 (Philipsminiwatt black base, exactly like this one : https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9938474.jpg )  and GZ32.
The GZ34 are in the 5R4G familly so I must defenitly give it a try.


----------



## joseph69

Just a quick initial impression on the Philips Miniwatt GZ34 with about 12hrs burn-in. I had my UE 596 in prior to putting the Miniwatt in, and even though there isn't nearly any sufficient burn-in on the Miniwatt, my initial impressions aren't too good as of right now. Hopefully with sufficient burn-in it will get better. I know I shouldn't be commenting so soon, but again, these are just my initial impressions, but I've heard many tubes without burn-in sound good right out of the box and only get better.


----------



## gug42

Hello,

Thank you for thoses informations. When you tell not good, what did you mean please ?


----------



## gug42

Well about power/drivers tubes on wa6 and wa6se : is the auto-bias fonctionnaly  permit to not have close matched tubes ? 
15% between two tubes ... huge or not ? did you know if there is a "sound impact" ?


----------



## joseph69

gug42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for thoses informations. When you tell not good, what did you mean please ?


You're welcome, but remember these are my initial impressions.
There was no height/depth/clarity and the vocals were very recessed and bland as well as the instrument separation being cluttered. Again, this is most likely due to insufficient burn-in, but as I mentioned, I've heard tubes that sound very good without burn-in so this makes me a bit skeptical.
Only time will tell.


----------



## Xcalibur255

gug42 said:


> Thank you for your advise !
> 
> Indeed I will try a 5Y3 to see the result.
> 
> ...



I'm afraid I have to correct you on that last part.  The GZ34 and 5R4GY are not related and are very different tubes.  In fact I would say these two tubes are about as far apart from each other in sound as you can possibly get in rectifiers.  

Here's a good cheap example if you want to sample a 5R4GY:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jan-CRC-RCA...699174?hash=item4b16f4f3e6:g:hnYAAOSwrhBZDngw


----------



## gug42

Hello

You are right. I want to mean 5AR4 ... Sorry for this little letter  

Well the fist thing that I have noticed about this gz34 what a some kind of veiled and "evaporated" sound. Femal vocal isn't good for me. i will retry it when i will get time  

By the way 5r4 are directly heated and gz34/5ar4 are indirectly. Well i coud give a try to a 5r4   

By the can I bought 15 % an unmatched pairs and hope the wa6se do the balacing stuff  ?  

Thx


----------



## gug42

Hello, 

Is there some who has compare Brimar 5R4GY, miniwatt GZ32, Frive 5R4GY, Brimar 5Z4GY, ?  
Well the first is higly priced ... and the two others could be some under dogs 

Specially for a wa6se


----------



## Leotis

Hi Guys,
Got a Yggy going to Woo Audio WA5.
WA5 has balanced in and balanced out, but is a single ended amp.
Is it better to use single end from Yggy to Woo and let the Yggy do the conversion?
Or use the balanced and let the Woo do the conversion?
On a similar note, I have balanced headphones (Abyss).
The Woo has balanced out and single ended out.
Is it better to use the single ended connection?
Seems if I use the balanced the signal is converted single to balanced at the Woo output then converted back to single at the headphone.
Or is the headphone able to use the balanced signal directly?
Thanks for your advice


----------



## Leotis

Dang. I killed the thread again.
I hate it when that happens.


----------



## phase0

Leotis,

I use SE from Yggy to the WA5 because it's a SE amp and I run balanced out to my V281. I don't notice any difference between running Bal/SE to the WA5. I think the Balanced HP out would deliver more power and the Abyss supposedly likes that so I would probably run it that way. Try it both ways and see what you prefer...


----------



## Kiet Teoh

hi all, can wa6 (not the latest 2nd gen) use ecc33 & ecc35? woo audio's website mentioned can't. can someone confirm that? thanks


----------



## joseph69

Kiet Teoh said:


> hi all, can wa6 (not the latest 2nd gen) use ecc33 & ecc35? woo audio's website mentioned can't. can someone confirm that? thanks


Look HERE.


----------



## abvolt

gug42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is there some who has compare Brimar 5R4GY, miniwatt GZ32, Frive 5R4GY, Brimar 5Z4GY, ?
> Well the first is higly priced ... and the two others could be some under dogs
> ...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

from the show floor of Munich HIGH END. WA33 Elite Edition and Diana by Abyss headphones.

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa33.html


----------



## leftside

Nice DAC  The Woo + Lampizator is a wonderful combo. I currently have the Atlantic, but have the upgraded Golden Atlantic on order.


----------



## Khragon

What's the WA33 output impedance for Low and High impedance setting?  Also what exactly is Level?
Any thoughts on Elite vs "Peasant"  WA33?


----------



## jerick70

Khragon said:


> What's the WA33 output impedance for Low and High impedance setting?  Also what exactly is Level?
> Any thoughts on Elite vs "Peasant"  WA33?



A lot of moola! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## Maxx134

Leotis said:


> Is it better to use single end from Yggy to Woo and let the Yggy do the conversion?
> Or use the balanced and let the Woo do the conversion?



Use the yggy balanced out.
It has the better sound.
A bit louder,  and larger sound.

If you can't hear the difference,
You can either blame your setup,
Or, 
Take it as a plus to not have to keep improving your setup since there no difference for you. 
Either way is fine. 

Otherwise, it is already been stated long ago in the yggy threads,
 that the balanced output are better.

If your system is very resolving  you will hear quite a difference. 
So let the amp get the balanced and do what is has to do.

Those woo setups are nice.


----------



## verycoolalan

Anybody with experience on Woo WES vs BHSE?


----------



## greggf

Tube rolling aside, which Woo amp is more pleasantly euphonic and musical with the HD800S, the WA2, the WA22, or the WA6SE?  I have a balanced source but don't feel compelled to use it.  I listen to jazz, pop, and classical.

I'm suffering badly from the My-Music-Is-Accurate-But-Deadly-Dry-Transistor Blues.  Make my life richer, more vivid, and more fun with your advice!


----------



## gug42

If you have the money wa22  !


----------



## greggf

Thank you.  I never have the money, but that's beside the point by now.


----------



## gug42

WA6 and WA6SE are good money value too 
Little dot mkVI+ is another way


----------



## Contrails (Jun 1, 2017)

> Tube rolling aside, which Woo amp is more pleasantly euphonic and musical with the HD800S, the WA2, the WA22, or the WA6SE? I have a balanced source but don't feel compelled to use it. I listen to jazz, pop, and classical.



If you have a Balanced source then go with the WA22.  You can also add a preamp function as a custom option when ordering from Woo directly.  Tons of info on tube rolling and when you get bored of that you can also play around with the caps.

There are also other options like Glenn custom amps or Eddie Current Zana Deux.


----------



## Badas

gug42 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is there some who has compare Brimar 5R4GY, miniwatt GZ32, Frive 5R4GY, Brimar 5Z4GY, ?
> Well the first is higly priced ... and the two others could be some under dogs
> ...



I've tried the last 3. Brimar 5Z4GY beat the other two by a large margin. 
The other two sounded closed. Almost congested.
Brimar was far more holographic and open.


----------



## Badas

Contrails are you interested in the Auralic Vega DAC?

I might get a Yaggy.


----------



## JohanGao

Any other information, impression or whatever about WA33, I have preorder the amp, but I am dying to get any impression on it...


----------



## Contrails

Hey @Badas, thanks for the offer but I just pulled the trigger on a Holo Spring DAC. Yggy is suppose to be a fantastic DAC!


----------



## joseph69

Contrails said:


> I just pulled the trigger on a Holo Spring DAC.


Congratulations, you won't be disappointed in any way!


----------



## Odin412

JohanGao said:


> Any other information, impression or whatever about WA33, I have preorder the amp, but I am dying to get any impression on it...



I heard the WA33 with the Focal Utopia at the CanJam SoCal and I listened to the most life-like rendition of 'Bohemian Rhapsody' that I've ever heard. At the LA Audio Show I heard the WA33 with the MrSpeakers Ether Flows and that was a very nice combo as well. Good bass, life-like midrange and smooth, non-fatiguing treble.


----------



## JohanGao

Odin412 said:


> I heard the WA33 with the Focal Utopia at the CanJam SoCal and I listened to the most life-like rendition of 'Bohemian Rhapsody' that I've ever heard. At the LA Audio Show I heard the WA33 with the MrSpeakers Ether Flows and that was a very nice combo as well. Good bass, life-like midrange and smooth, non-fatiguing treble.



Hearing that what you say, made me can't wait for the preorder waiting time.. I want it arrive as soon as possible because i am so curious with the sound and can't imagine how could my hek v2 sound with this amp, because i found my hek doesn't sound as good as people say from WA6SE. But at the other hand I don't have that much money at this time to pay the balance. So I just gambling and make pre order hoping that when the time comes, I can get that much money without interfere my bank balance....


----------



## Contrails

@joseph69 it's a very good DAC indeed. I ended up getting the level 3 and the SU-1 as well. Surprisingly, a big step up from a Metrum Musette.


----------



## joseph69

Contrails said:


> @joseph69 it's a very good DAC indeed. I ended up getting the level 3 and the SU-1 as well. Surprisingly, a big step up from a Metrum Musette.


Very nice, I'm sure you will enjoy!


----------



## jerick70

Contrails said:


> Hey @Badas, thanks for the offer but I just pulled the trigger on a Holo Spring DAC.



You are a lucky man.  I am saving up for a Holo Spring.  I've heard they are incredible.


----------



## Badas

I'm having a play with the Yggy in my rig. 

What a monster.

I plan to have a listen using the Woo WA22 tonight. 
I've had a quick listen using Yggy > V281 > Ether Flow. That's a killer combo.


----------



## Gibson59 (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm looking for either a WA6 or WA6se to pair with my HE1000 v2. This will be a tube amp to compliment my Wells Audio Milo. I obviously want whichever one will best power my planars but also considering which has more tube rolling potential so I can play with he sound.


----------



## mm1962

Badas said:


> I'm having a play with the Yggy in my rig.
> 
> What a monster.
> 
> ...


----------



## mm1962

Very nice setup, indeed!


----------



## Rossliew

Is the yggy such a game changer?


----------



## Badas

Rossliew said:


> Is the yggy such a game changer?



I've only listened to five songs so far. 
Initial impressions are: Yes it is a game changer. 

No more sparkly treble. Sparkly treble is completely gone.


----------



## Rossliew

Realistic treble! What about bass slam- any of that?


----------



## Badas

Rossliew said:


> Realistic treble! What about bass slam- any of that?



I haven't tested that yet. I will.


----------



## Rossliew

Eagerly await your impressions! Am looking at the yggy to add to my arsenal of dacs.


----------



## Contrails (Jun 13, 2017)

@weissja36

Tube rolling in Woo amps causes very subtle change in sound.  I would recommend changing the output caps instead.  I changed the ones in the Wa22 to Jupiter copper foil and this yielded more results than all the tube rolling I have done.  Subjective of course, but something to bear in mind.


----------



## watchdog507

Contrails said:


> @weissja36
> 
> Tube rolling in Woo amps causes very subtle change in sound.  I would recommend changing the output caps instead.  I changed the ones in the Wa22 to Jupiter copper foil and this yielded more results than all the tube rolling I have done.  Subjective of course, but something to bear in mind.



When you compare upgraded tubes to  the basic tubes that WOO sends with the amp, yes there is a huge difference.  I have Genelex 300B's, Black Treasure 300B's and EML 520B V3's and each tube imparted a different sonic signature in my WA5-LE.  The EML's are my favourite.  As for Rectifier  tubes, I have EML 5U4G's and they are my favourite but I'm now running a pair of 596's and they are very good.  Funky looking too! As for Driver's the best so far is a pair of Marconi/Magnavox 6SN7's. I have Tung Sol round plates on the way.  I'm toying with Takatsuki's for the  power end.


----------



## Contrails

> When you compare upgraded tubes to the basic tubes that WOO sends with the amp, yes there is a huge difference



Well, if you compare the stock tubes to the uber tubes the difference is easy to hear.  'Huge' is a very vague description especially if we both judge with different references in mind. 'Huge' for me would be different ends of the spectrum.


----------



## Randy Myers

This is my first post in the Woo section.  I recently purchased a WA6 and am loving it so far.  I have it running as another amplifier in my system.  I am using a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE preamplifier and their new DAC2v2SE DAC using the ESS 9038Pro chips.  I have a First Watt and Audio Research amplifiers which I switch back and forth depending on mood and the Woo Audio for when I listen to headphones (which seems to be a lot of time lately).

I have KEF M500 as secondary headphones and Sennheiser HD80S as my primaries...  I believe the WA6 I got is a first generation (This is what AA told me) for tube rolling.  I am looking for opinions on tube rolling.  I recently picked up a rectifier tube from Upscale because of the overwhelming ratings and feedback.  A Phillips made in Holland NOS tube that they bought the entire stock of this find.  Here is a what one review wrote: 

"I compared them to the holy grail of rectifiers, the Mullard GZ34/5AR4 which I bought used for $80. New is $250, if you can find them. In the ModWright PS9 Power supply and in a Dynaco Stereo 70, the Phillips worked wonders. I experienced more definition, more subtlety, more elegance, tighter imaging, fleshier, quicker, added depth, and just more realism. Vocals are better than ever, and alive with inner definition and nuance."

Wondering if anyone else has heard of or tried this tube.  I was stunned at how big of an improvement it made in my new WA6.  Also, any other suggestions on tubes that might really improve my new WA6?

Thank you very much for an input.  Sorry for such a long post.  This is my first foray into Woo, tube headphone amps, and tube rolling.  Therefore I am a little green behind the ears ...


----------



## Badas (Jun 15, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Eagerly await your impressions! Am looking at the yggy to add to my arsenal of dacs.



I've had a lot of listening now. Definitely a game changer.

Bass is deep and different. Clearer is the word that springs to mind.

Compared to the Auralic the Yggy just seems more effortless and cleaner. Treble and bass is rendered so naturally.
Even tho the Auralic was excellent it now seems processed compared to the Yggy.

It's not perfect. There is one thing I'm not 100% on. It is a bit forward. Some music is just too close to the performance.
The Auralic just seemed a little further back. Using a hall as a example. The Yggy puts you on stage where the Auralic
is a comfy few rows back. 

I also wish I could turn the thing black. Silver is way too bright. 






All in all Yggy does sound next Gen.
I can't wait to give it a go through the WA22. Not sure what HP's to use Hawks or Flow. Hhhhmmm!


----------



## watchdog507 (Jun 15, 2017)

This was meant for Randy Myers:

The new forum app messed up the quote.

Welcome to Woo and Tube rolling.  I found the WA6 to be impacted more than most amps by the rectifier. If you have the older WA6 I also recommend an adapter so that you can use 6SN7 tubes.  The Round Plate Tung Sol is a good option.

You can't go wrong with Dubstep-Girls Rectifier review:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/d...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/

6SN7 review:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

You're only limited by your imagination and your pocket book.


----------



## Rossliew

Badas said:


> I've had a lot of listening now. Definitely a game changer.
> 
> Bass is deep and different. Clearer is the word that springs to mind.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the impressions. Perhaps it may sound aggressive with equally forward sounding amps. The wa22 may be a good match perhaps


----------



## Badas

Rossliew said:


> Thanks for the impressions. Perhaps it may sound aggressive with equally forward sounding amps. The wa22 may be a good match perhaps



It's only a minor quibble. I've found switching HP's has fixed a lot of the forwardness. I've switched from Flows to NightHawks and Wow! 
Nighthawks sound bloody impressive. Using them on the Woo WA22 now and I don't want to change a thing. 
Right now I would say the very cheap Hawks are outperforming the more expensive Flows.


----------



## JohanGao

Anyone ever use woo wee? I am preordering WA33 and upgrading to the elite version.. In future I have plan to get one electrostatic headphone and use my WA33 with Woo Wee to power the electrostatic headphone.. How are you guys feel? Would it sound good or comparable with stat amp? I just still not ready to buy 5 grand amp only to use with electrostat headphone..


----------



## Randy Myers

Thank you for your input.  Wow there are tons of tubes out there.  It sounds like it can get rather confusing and over whelming.  The review had some good things and some not so good things to say about the Phillips tube.  It sounds like it is considered good, but not quite as good as Upscale makes it sound.  I do know it sounded much better than the original rectifier that was included with my new Woo Audio WA6.

I use my Sennheiser HD800S phones almost exclusively.  If I wanted something even better; preferring fuller, richer, imaging, separation of instruments, similar to what I get with my speakers, what would be a good recommended tube?

I really appreciate the input.  This certainly can be a confusing new world to jump into ...




watchdog507 said:


> This was meant for Randy Myers:
> 
> The new forum app messed up the quote.
> 
> ...


----------



## watchdog507

Randy Myers said:


> Thank you for your input.  Wow there are tons of tubes out there.  It sounds like it can get rather confusing and over whelming.  The review had some good things and some not so good things to say about the Phillips tube.  It sounds like it is considered good, but not quite as good as Upscale makes it sound.  I do know it sounded much better than the original rectifier that was included with my new Woo Audio WA6.
> 
> I use my Sennheiser HD800S phones almost exclusively.  If I wanted something even better; preferring fuller, richer, imaging, separation of instruments, similar to what I get with my speakers, what would be a good recommended tube?
> 
> I really appreciate the input.  This certainly can be a confusing new world to jump into ...



I've found these reviews to be a good guideline.  It's difficult, for obvious reasons to self test all of these tubes in your own configuration.  I've always found that my ears are the ultimate reviewer. That said my current configuration for my WA5-LE is EML 520B V3's for power, Tung Sol 6F8G's for Driver and 596's for Rectification.  This is a tough combo to beat.


----------



## joseph69

watchdog507 said:


> "I've always found that my ears are the ultimate reviewer"


 Without a doubt!


----------



## Sonic77

I wonder what tubes Woo Audio used at this past show with the wa33 and what was the cost of those?


----------



## watchdog507 (Jun 22, 2017)

Sonic77 said:


> I wonder what tubes Woo Audio used at this past show with the wa33 and what was the cost of those?



I think that i read that the tubes were KR Audio tubes.  If you look at the tube options that are available, I'm sure that they went with the upgraded tubes. The Woo Audio tube models and prices are in the description as options on the Woo Audio Web Site under the Products Tab.

http://wooaudio.com/products/


----------



## phase0

IIRC after the initial showing WA said they would demo the WA33 as it ships (without tube upgrades). I'm hoping come RMAF there's a version with the upgraded tubes I can hear.


----------



## paulomario77

Hi all,

New club member here, the WA22 is my first tube amplifier. Using the Oppo HA-1 as a DAC.



 

Regards!


----------



## Sonic77

paulomario77 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> New club member here, the WA22 is my first tube amplifier. Using the Oppo HA-1 as a DAC.
> 
> ...



Nice!


----------



## abvolt

Welcome to the club paulomario77 I'm sure you'll find the wa22 simply amazing..enjoy


----------



## jerick70

I have a question about the 6F8G and use in the WA5.  Is it normal to hear buzzing after installing these tubes?  I only hear the buzzing when I turn up the volume a little above the halfway point. It almost sounds like I'm trying to turn an old time radio.  I only hear it in the right channel. I don't normally listen at these volumes but it is a little concerning.  Should I be concerned?


----------



## MIKELAP

i use these tubes with my WA22 some are quiet some are noisy what i did is install a ferrite choke on each of the wires on the adapters and for me it helped but didnt remove noise completely


----------



## watchdog507

jerick70 said:


> I have a question about the 6F8G and use in the WA5.  Is it normal to hear buzzing after installing these tubes?  I only hear the buzzing when I turn up the volume a little above the halfway point. It almost sounds like I'm trying to turn an old time radio.  I only hear it in the right channel. I don't normally listen at these volumes but it is a little concerning.  Should I be concerned?


I run 6F8G Tung Sol round plates in my WA5-LE and no that isn't normal.  Try making sure that the adapter connector on top is snug and clean all pins with electrical contact cleaner.  I would also test the tubes a humming tube is usually a short or going bad. Also reverse the adapters to make sure one of the adapters isn't defective


----------



## JohanGao

I have same problem before with my 6FD7 on WA6SE, but 6EM7 doesn't have that weird noise.. every time I raise the volume the noise become more audible. At the moment I think my tube have problem, I tell the store I buy from, but have no real solution. Then my friend tell me is it near wifi modem, and he suggest to turn of the modem. I try but not working for me.
My WA6SE amp is nearing a wireless home phone, then I try to terminate the phone electricity and it working, all the noise disappear...
Hope this can help you to find what kind of thing make your tube noisy...


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I have a question about the 6F8G and use in the WA5.  Is it normal to hear buzzing after installing these tubes?  I only hear the buzzing when I turn up the volume a little above the halfway point. It almost sounds like I'm trying to turn an old time radio.  I only hear it in the right channel. I don't normally listen at these volumes but it is a little concerning.  Should I be concerned?


I had this same issue in my WA6 with my first set of NU-6F8G tubes…they were bad tubes, which were replaced by the seller, and the noise issue was gone.


----------



## jerick70

MIKELAP said:


> i use these tubes with my WA22 some are quiet some are noisy what i did is install a ferrite choke on each of the wires on the adapters and for me it helped but didnt remove noise completely



Excellent idea.  I will have to try ferrite chokes and see how they fair.



watchdog507 said:


> I run 6F8G Tung Sol round plates in my WA5-LE and no that isn't normal.  Try making sure that the adapter connector on top is snug and clean all pins with electrical contact cleaner.  I would also test the tubes a humming tube is usually a short or going bad. Also reverse the adapters to make sure one of the adapters isn't defective



All connections are fine.  Another excellent idea.  I'll run some deoxit over the pins and see what happens.  I've reversed the adapters and tried each tube in a different socket.  The funny thing is the hum doesn't change sides and is still around 12 to 1 o'clock on the volume control.



joseph69 said:


> I had this same issue in my WA6 with my first set of NU-6F8G tubes…they were bad tubes, which were replaced by the seller, and the noise issue was gone.



Thanks for all the input!  At lower volumes they have no hint of noise. The 6F8Gs sound so much more detailed and full bodied than the 6SN7s.  They really liven up the music.  I don't think I'm going to worry about it if you are seeing the same issue.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I don't think I'm going to worry about it if you are seeing the same issue.


No, I'm not having the same issue. As I mentioned, I had the same issue you're having with my first set, but the seller exchanged them for another set with no issues. I have no noise issues whatsoever with my current NU-6F8G's.


----------



## Martinrm

Picking up a used WA6 and i'm wondering about putting some 6FD7s in for the drivers, is there any way to check if i have the upgraded cathode caps of the newer model which supports these tubes?


----------



## u2u2 (Jul 7, 2017)

If the used WA6 is marked 6DE7 in front of the driver tube sockets the amp is compatible with 6FD7 tubes according to the current Woo Audio chart. The first four digits of the serial number are the month and year the amp was built. If you are uncertain, contact Woo with the serial number and they will likely help. The new model, 2nd generation, is not likely compatible and Woo has not fully updated their site with new WA6 photos and manual... If you have a newer 1st generation WA6 you have the best version for tube rolling.


----------



## Martinrm

u2u2 said:


> If the used WA6 is marked 6DE7 in front of the driver tube sockets the amp is compatible with 6FD7 tubes according to the current Woo Audio chart. The first four digits of the serial number are the month and year the amp was built. If you are uncertain, contact Woo with the serial number and they will likely help. The new model, 2nd generation, is not likely compatible and Woo has not fully updated their site with new WA6 photos and manual... If you have a newer 1st generation WA6 you have the best version for tube rolling.


Thank you for the good information!


----------



## abvolt

Hi all how's the Woo club doing these days seems a little slow for what used to be one of the busiest forums on the board, Any one here thinking of giving the wa33 a go I would but my pockets are not that deep these days..have fun all


----------



## phase0

Ya it's quiet *shrug*. I got Tak 300Bs for my WA5 a few weeks back. So far so good. They had some hours on them before but claimed ~ 100 hrs so they would still be breaking in if that's the case.


----------



## abvolt

I bet that sounds nice I almost got the wa5 until I started pricing tubes, I have little control in my old age would have spent more on tubes than the amp cost by a long way..enjoy


----------



## watchdog507

abvolt said:


> I bet that sounds nice I almost got the wa5 until I started pricing tubes, I have little control in my old age would have spent more on tubes than the amp cost by a long way..enjoy



At my age, I'm burdened by impulses to buy more tubes.  Unlike yourself, I bought the WA5.  I immediately set aside the PSVane tubes and bought a set of Genelex 300B's, a pair of Brimar Rectifiers and a box full of 6SN7 tubes. I bought far more inventory than I would ever logically use.  At the end of the day. I could have saved myself a ton of money and just stayed with what my current rig is.  EML 520B V3's in place of 300B's, Tung Sol 6F8G's in place of 6SN7's and swapping back and forth between 596 Rectifiers and and EML 5U4G's.  The path to audio joy is paved with money unfortunately.


----------



## Stereolab42

I have enough tubes now to last a lifetime after scoring a spectacular deal last year for a box of NOS/NIB 596s... I just heard the two WA33 models and while awesome, they use different tubes than what I own so not something I would buy.


----------



## davehg (Jul 27, 2017)

For those curious about WA5 with speakers, I've been super happy running an older pair of ProAc Signature 50s at more than adequate volume (knob is at 11 o'clock) and a REL Strata III sub. Sound is gorgeous. Using mostly vinyl (VPI Prime table into an EAR phono preamp) but digital is nice too. Still prefer the LCD3s for critical listening but for kicking back with missus, the Woo does a brilliant job with speakers.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

abvolt said:


> Hi all how's the Woo club doing these days seems a little slow for what used to be one of the busiest forums on the board, Any one here thinking of giving the wa33 a go I would but my pockets are not that deep these days..have fun all



Summer is usually slower. Kids are out of school so people take this time to go on family holiday.

See us at the upcoming Head-Fi meet in San Francisco to audition WA33 (standard model with stock tubes). Be warned...  you can't UN-hear it.


----------



## phase0

HiFiGuy528 said:


> See us at the upcoming Head-Fi meet in San Francisco to audition WA33 (standard model with stock tubes). Be warned... you can't UN-hear it.



If only it were like cars and we could trade in our old model for the new hotness...


----------



## fhuang

phase0 said:


> If only it were like cars and we could trade in our old model for the new hotness...




The wa33 maybe better, maybe a whole lot better than the wa5 but I doubt it sound like the wa5.  I got the wa5 was because of the tube, 300b, or I would have gone to other vendor(s)


Anyway, still extra curious on this beauty


----------



## phase0

fhuang said:


> The wa33 maybe better, maybe a whole lot better than the wa5 but I doubt it sound like the wa5.  I got the wa5 was because of the tube, 300b, or I would have gone to other vendor(s)
> 
> Anyway, still extra curious on this beauty



Yea you're probably right. Now that I have the Takatsuki 300Bs I feel like I've arrived and there's nothing left to upgrade. Just buy one of each amp and try to appreciate the subtle diffs right? I want to hear a maxed out WA33 to hear what/if anything I'm missing (or just enjoy it for a few minutes). I already blew my budget to get the WA5 so I'm not even slightly tempted at the WA33, but still curious. I'm going to need a bigger raise at work to consider budging from what I already have in the next few years at this price level.


----------



## watchdog507 (Aug 4, 2017)

fhuang said:


> The wa33 maybe better, maybe a whole lot better than the wa5 but I doubt it sound like the wa5.  I got the wa5 was because of the tube, 300b, or I would have gone to other vendor(s)
> 
> 
> Anyway, still extra curious on this beauty



I bought the WA5-LE after a rather poor showing from my WA6.  The WA6 was pleasant enough but it was missing a lot of resolution that I was used to.  I have a Violectric V281 for my solid state duties and this was clouding my experience.   I really wanted that unique sound that comes only from tubes, especially 300B amps.  I listen to my Woo WA5 about 90% of the time and I love every minute of it.  The WA33 in it's most basic form is more than 2X the cost of a WA5. Is it twice the amp? Only time will tell.


----------



## watchdog507

My Woo Bunnies have new ears!  Woo just delivered two pairs of their adapters.  The new 6F8G>6SN7 and 596>5U4G.  They are built well and look spectacular.

It might be my mind playing tricks but they sound cleaner with more detail.


----------



## paulomario77

Hello guys,

Can the ECC31 be used on the WA22 without an adapter? Woo Audio`s tube compatibility chart doesn't mention the need for an adapter, and Michael from Woo didn't say anything about it when he replied to my email, but the pinout from the ECC31 and the 6SN7 are clearly different.


----------



## watchdog507

I just looked at my compatibility chart and the ECC31 doesn't require an adapter:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Zap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#


----------



## paulomario77

watchdog507 said:


> I just looked at my compatibility chart and the ECC31 doesn't require an adapter:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Zap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#



Yes, dear, I've seen the chart, but look at the pin connections.


----------



## artemart

Hey guys I just got a back up pair of PX300B, and I would like to make sure it will work with my WA5-LE.


----------



## watchdog507

artemart said:


> Hey guys I just got a back up pair of PX300B, and I would like to make sure it will work with my WA5-LE.



Most 300B Variants work in the Woo WA5-LE.  I have a pair of the Genelex Gold Lion PX300B's and they work fine.


----------



## abvolt

The ECC31 does require an adapter for the wa22 look again.


----------



## watchdog507

I'm old and my hearing is failing.  I thought that my eyes were fine.  I could have sworn that they didn't. Is there a way to check the file date


----------



## paulomario77

abvolt said:


> The ECC31 does require an adapter for the wa22 look again.



Yes, they corrected the compatibility chart after I asked them to do so.


----------



## fhuang

Wish me luck guys, Elroy 274b


----------



## fhuang




----------



## phase0 (Aug 13, 2017)

Those look amazing fhuang... "Wish me luck guys, Elroy 274b"
Good luck! Do they sound as good as they look and how long will they last before failure?

EDIT: VinylSavor talks about Elrog under new mgmt and that the reliability issues with the 300B are fixed now. I searched around a bit and I don't see those ER274B for sale anywhere... I'm wondering how much do they cost? where to buy? is it a limited run which is all gone? how do they sound? compared to the Tak 274B which are supposed to be among the best?


----------



## MIKELAP (Aug 14, 2017)

watchdog507 said:


> I just looked at my compatibility chart and the ECC31 doesn't require an adapter:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Zap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#


The ECC31does require an adapter that is a long standing error on the chart that they never corrected these are my adapters


----------



## abvolt

paulomario77 said:


> Yes, they corrected the compatibility chart after I asked them to do so.



Are you using the ecc31's in your wa22 without an adapter ? just asking because I've always thought one had to..


----------



## paulomario77

abvolt said:


> Are you using the ecc31's in your wa22 without an adapter ? just asking because I've always thought one had to..



No, I`m waiting for my adapters to arrive.


----------



## watchdog507

fhuang said:


>



Right now I run EML 5U4G's or 596's as rectifiers in my WA5-LE.  Who was the supplier for the ELROG 274B's I can't seem to find the details.for North America?


----------



## wongtonypr

Hi, I have just bought a shunyata amp1 and a shunyata hc power cord to use with my wa5le. It works sublime with the wa5le, bringing back power tand texture to any kind of music. Highly recommend anyone which want to improve their woo amp after changing some nice tubes. It certainly worth a try to anyone who want to upgrade or change their tubes again since the amp1 and hc power cord combo only cost around half the price of a pair of takasuki 300b.


----------



## abvolt (Sep 17, 2017)

That's awesome  indeed the right gear does makes all the difference...enjoy
sometimes I make errors sorry.


----------



## wongtonypr

abvolt said:


> That's an awesome cable indeed the right cable does make a nice difference...enjoy


Hi. The amp1 is not a cable, but a tiny power conditioner that is designed specifically for amplifiers. I do need an extra power cord to connect the amp1 to the wall socket, and by adding a non-pricy shunyata hc can handle this job well. I was amazed by how this tiny thing can improve the sound In some area even more than changing a pricy cable like the higher models of shunyata power cords.


----------



## thunder 99

Has anyone compared a WA234 as a preamp rather than using other preamps. After a 300B preamp and options include Manley Neoclassical 300B but was wondering if WA234 are worth the price to be used as a a preamp mainly or just get one which is a dedicated well known preamp. What do you guys reckon?


----------



## fhuang

phase0 said:


> Those look amazing fhuang... "Wish me luck guys, Elroy 274b"
> Good luck! Do they sound as good as they look and how long will they last before failure?
> 
> EDIT: VinylSavor talks about Elrog under new mgmt and that the reliability issues with the 300B are fixed now. I searched around a bit and I don't see those ER274B for sale anywhere... I'm wondering how much do they cost? where to buy? is it a limited run which is all gone? how do they sound? compared to the Tak 274B which are supposed to be among the best?





watchdog507 said:


> Right now I run EML 5U4G's or 596's as rectifiers in my WA5-LE.  Who was the supplier for the ELROG 274B's I can't seem to find the details.for North America?




sorry, been busy for some time.  

i don't know, i got them at the audio show here in hong kong.  the dealer/distributor here is baoling-audio and/or dhc technology & solutions company.


----------



## abvolt (Oct 7, 2017)

deleted


----------



## Krutsch

abvolt said:


> *deleted*



Ha ha ha... first post in a month and it's deleted. Bueller... Bueller...


----------



## MIKELAP

Krutsch said:


> Ha ha ha... first post in a month and it's deleted. Bueller... Bueller...


Is it me or it was more active before the big change ?


----------



## Krutsch

MIKELAP said:


> Is it me or it was more active before the big change ?



For sure... I can be gone for weeks, come back to my old threads and catch-up in minutes. I have to believe their visitation stats are through the floor.

Or, maybe it's just the threads I follow...


----------



## jerick70

MIKELAP said:


> Is it me or it was more active before the big change ?


Agreed. This thread had been dead for a long time. With the release of the WA33 you would think everyone would be talking about it.


----------



## Clayton SF

I'm still listening to my WA4. Can't get enough of it. Oh, and yes, the 22 as well. But the WA4 is bedside.


----------



## joseph69 (Oct 11, 2017)

Krutsch said:


> Or, maybe it's just the threads I follow...





jerick70 said:


> Agreed. This thread had been dead for a long time.


Seems that all the threads I follow are pretty much dead too.


----------



## Krutsch

Clayton SF said:


> I'm still *listening to my WA4*. Can't get enough of it. Oh, and yes, the 22 as well. But the WA4 is bedside.



Wait, what? Is that a new product?


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt has been trying out the 6SC7GT tubes any of you guys try this tube yet ? .Ive ordered the adapters and TS 6SC7GT and will give them a go .Not many around though.


----------



## MIKELAP

Krutsch said:


> Wait, what? Is that a new product?


The rumour mill has started lol


----------



## jerick70

MIKELAP said:


> abvolt has been trying out the 6SC7GT tubes any of you guys try this tube yet ? .Ive ordered the adapters and TS 6SC7GT and will give them a go .Not many around though.


Which amp is he trying these on?


----------



## jerick70

MIKELAP said:


> The rumour mill has started lol


The WA4 is a old Woo design. It looks like the predecessor to the WA5.

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa4.html


----------



## phase0

Yea I just heard the WA33, no WA5 there to compare with. It's outstanding. One of my favorites at RMAF. The problem I have is that I already own the WA5 and calling that good enough. It's just going to be too expensive for me to try to sell WA5+tubes, and make a switch... I'm content where I'm at. WA33 + Susvara and WA33 + Abyss is a very nice combo. I was also surprised by the updated Stax setup Woo was demoing. There was only one album on demo for Stax with some female singer (I suck at names sorry). But it was breath taking. When you can't decide which is better why not buy all 3? I wasn't expecting to like Susvara as much as I did. I don't think I'm as critical/analytical a listener as some people around her, but I felt like the amount of detail and texture were on par.

I've also noticed a huge drop in activity on all the threads I look at. I think the headfi UI switch went really badly, and some people may have left for good. They should have handled it better, given a little heads up to people. I think it really hurt the forums. This thread used to be really active. I haven't been tube shopping and I don't really have any questions so about all I got is thumbs up to WA33, if you have the $, it's got the looks and sounds great!


----------



## MIKELAP

jerick70 said:


> Which amp is he trying these on?


You can use these on a WA22 and WA5 its on the Woo chart https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml


----------



## jerick70

MIKELAP said:


> You can use these on a WA22 and WA5 its on the Woo chart https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml


Thanks Mike.  How do these sound?  I have a WA5 and am interested in rolling some more drivers.


----------



## MIKELAP

jerick70 said:


> Thanks Mike.  How do these sound?  I have a WA5 and am interested in rolling some more drivers.


i have no idea yet just ordered adapters and tubes but abvolt has tried them he described them in the previous pages .


----------



## abvolt

MIKELAP said:


> Is it me or it was more active before the big change ?



It sure is true it used to be one of the more popular threads not any more too bad I love the Woo amps..enjoy


----------



## Maalis

How would you say the $1K range Woo amps compare to each other? I'm looking for a tube amp and so far WA7 seems to be the one that's most readily available in Europe, although I prefer the looks of WA2 and 6SE.


----------



## ap307

Just picked up a WA5 gen 2 and looking for tube recommendations (will be paired with Focal Utopias)?

This is my first tube amp so very green in terms to what to try next.


----------



## watchdog507

ap307 said:


> Just picked up a WA5 gen 2 and looking for tube recommendations (will be paired with Focal Utopias)?
> 
> This is my first tube amp so very green in terms to what to try next.


I have Woo WA5-LE Gen 2 and it is my preferred amp with my Utopia’s.  For rectifiers I like EML 5U4G’s or United 596’s (you’ll need adapters) for drivers I like Tung Sol round plates, 6SN7’s or the same in 6F8G with adapters for power I like EML or KR 300b tubes these are the best configuration after many less satisfactory experiments.


----------



## ap307

watchdog507 said:


> I have Woo WA5-LE Gen 2 and it is my preferred amp with my Utopia’s.  For rectifiers I like EML 5U4G’s or United 596’s (you’ll need adapters) for drivers I like Tung Sol round plates, 6SN7’s or the same in 6F8G with adapters for power I like EML or KR 300b tubes these are the best configuration after many less satisfactory experiments.



Thanks

The unit I bought is second hand and came with Fulllmusic 300B/Q, Sylvania 6SN7, Sophia Electric 274B - going to try these out for a while and then try different combos like the one you suggested.


----------



## watchdog507

ap307 said:


> Thanks
> 
> The unit I bought is second hand and came with Fulllmusic 300B/Q, Sylvania 6SN7, Sophia Electric 274B - going to try these out for a while and then try different combos like the one you suggested.



From experience, your tubes are a good starting point.  Start with drivers, then power and lastly rectifiers.  Don’t buy into the rectifiers don’t matter argument.  When you find a good one you’ll notice the difference on the WA5


----------



## mahesvara

I just got a pair of TungSol 5998 that I purchased directly from Woo Audio (Jack Wu recommended them to me as the best power tubes for WA22 when I met him at RMAF) to replace my TungSol 7236. It's _frightening_ what the 5998 could do to the WA22. The soundstage just exploded for my Focal Utopia and the separation between the instruments and vocal became clearer than ever. 

The Utopia has the bad rap of having a narrow soundstage, but at this point I wonder if it's just because other owners don't have the right equipment to properly convey the spaciousness of the recording. I heard the HD800 (and its fabled soundstage) once and now had to question whether it just artificially inflated the soundstage even though the DAC/amp were conveying no such thing.


----------



## ap307 (Oct 15, 2017)

mahesvara said:


> I just got a pair of TungSol 5998 that I purchased directly from Woo Audio (Jack Wu recommended them to me as the best power tubes for WA22 when I met him at RMAF) to replace my TungSol 7236. It's _frightening_ what the 5998 could do to the WA22. The soundstage just exploded for my Focal Utopia and the separation between the instruments and vocal became clearer than ever.
> 
> The Utopia has the bad rap of having a narrow soundstage, but at this point I wonder if it's just because other owners don't have the right equipment to properly convey the spaciousness of the recording. I heard the HD800 (and its fabled soundstage) once and now had to question whether it just artificially inflated the soundstage even though the DAC/amp were conveying no such thing.



I can see this could expensive fast...


----------



## mahesvara

ap307 said:


> Thanks - any idea where I could pick-up a matched pair of TungSol 5998's?



I bought them from Woo Audio (I actually just paid for them after I talked to Jack at RMAF via PayPal), so I think you can just reach out to Woo Audio via email or via Facebook Message. They're very responsive 

I paid $440 for the matched pair, btw. Yeah, they aren't cheap ... but they're worth the money (to me anyway)


----------



## phase0

ap307 said:


> Just picked up a WA5 gen 2 and looking for tube recommendations (will be paired with Focal Utopias)?
> 
> This is my first tube amp so very green in terms to what to try next.



A couple of my favorites:
300B - Takatsuki
6F8G - w/ an adapter especially Tungsol round plate if you can find them, or National Union 6C8G (or TSRP for that matter)
Rectifier - I've been happy w/ Brimar 5Z4GY (cheap), sometimes use Mullard GZ32 or Weber WU4GB (cheap)

I also had a good experience with the EML 300B, it's one of the best cheaper 300Bs.


----------



## saturdayboy

isquirrel said:


> It was me. I have absent from Head-Fi for a while.
> 
> I have run a few pairs of the Elrog's and had issues with most of them. There was a lot of back and forth between the then manufacturers of the Elrog, myself and Jack Wu. There was various speculation about the bases and other issues of the tubes and Elrog countered that with a suggestion that my 234's were not specced to run the tube correctly (even though by then I had run up a few thousand or so hours of use with other 300B's with no issues).
> 
> ...


how do the KR 300B HP's compare to the Takatsukis?


----------



## isquirrel (Oct 29, 2017)

Given the price difference I would go for the KR HP's over the Takatsuki's. Having said that I have logged about 1,200 hours on the KR HP's and have a set of Takatsuki's which have done 5,000 hours and they test like new. I think the KR HP's sound better, better detail, more bass, better extension etc. Make sure you get the matching 274B HP rectifier if you can.


----------



## watchdog507

isquirrel said:


> Given the price difference I would go for the KR HP's over the Takatsuki's. Having said that I have logged about 1,200 hours on the KR HP's and have a set of Takatsuki's which have done 5,000 hours and they test like new. I think the KR HP's sound better, better detail, more bass, better extension etc. Make sure you get the matching 274B HP rectifier if you can.



I have a WA5-LE and like all all of us who have been bitten with the tube rolling disease, I've been experimenting with 300B's. I have the EML 520B V3's, EML 300B mesh plates, and KR 300B's of the plain non HP variety.  I bought the KR's on a whim and in the end I'm pleased.  In order of preference EML 520B, close, really close, KR 300B, and lastly the EML 300 B Mesh.  I had some of the best Chinese 300B's but the Czech tubes were much better for my ears and I sold off the Chinese tubes.  I've never heard Takatsuki's but when you get to the upper end here you're splitting hairs.  I probably have all of my EML and KR tubes for less that one pair of Tak's.  For rectifiers, I like 5U4G's, as they are more robust than 274B's and it's a toss up between the EML 5U4G Mesh and my relative bargain favourite, the 596's.  The 596 are really hard to find lately.  Woo must have bought most of the available stock from the larger suppliers on the Web.


----------



## artemart

Where do you guys buy your KR HP 300b ballon and 274B's from?


----------



## phase0

isquirrel said:


> Given the price difference I would go for the KR HP's over the Takatsuki's. Having said that I have logged about 1,200 hours on the KR HP's and have a set of Takatsuki's which have done 5,000 hours and they test like new. I think the KR HP's sound better, better detail, more bass, better extension etc. Make sure you get the matching 274B HP rectifier if you can.



Are you aware of any differences beyond cosmetic between the KR HP 300B and the KR 300B Balloon? I'm really happy with the Takatsuki coming from the EML 300B it was a noticeable improvement. There was some time ago also an argument that rectifiers may as well be solid state and some of those cheap Webers will out perform the most expensive rectifiers out there. I've leaned towards more of a tube purist angle since I have a solid state amp as well. I guess I'm still not sure how much a high end rectifier makes a difference. From what I have there's one I clearly didn't like and the others all seem about the same to me.


----------



## phase0

artemart said:


> Where do you guys buy your KR HP 300b ballon and 274B's from?



I see TheEvolutionOfSound has them for sale. That is where I just purchased my Abyss Phi from. Woo Audio may have them too. At least they demo'd the KR 2A3 in the WA33. For a couple of US options.


----------



## artemart

phase0 said:


> I see TheEvolutionOfSound has them for sale. That is where I just purchased my Abyss Phi from. Woo Audio may have them too. At least they demo'd the KR 2A3 in the WA33. For a couple of US options.



Thank you. Also it looks price of KR tubes is a bit cheaper then Takatsuki  tubes.


----------



## artemart

Any one got a link to any comparisons between KR 300b ballon vs 300b Takatsuki vs we-300b reissue?


----------



## Maalis

I'm still a tube noob, can I use any 8 pin to 9 pin adapter for 13EM7->13DE7 in my 2nd gen WA6-SE or do I need a specific kind of adapter?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Jacobal

I have a general amp question. Does the balanced headphone input make any difference from the single 1/4” end? Many amps don’t even include a balanced option so I assume it’s the same thing.


----------



## jerick70

Jacobal said:


> I have a general amp question. Does the balanced headphone input make any difference from the single 1/4” end? Many amps don’t even include a balanced option so I assume it’s the same thing.


It depends on which amp you are talking about.  There are differences if the amp has a balanced amp topology.


----------



## jerick70

Maalis said:


> I'm still a tube noob, can I use any 8 pin to 9 pin adapter for 13EM7->13DE7 in my 2nd gen WA6-SE or do I need a specific kind of adapter?
> 
> Thanks in advance


You can look at what tubes are compatible with your amp here... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml 

I don't see the tubes you mention on the chart so I would contact Woo directly and ask them here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...rm?formkey=dDQ2X18zUTRGc2JDazIyYnNMWnRnbkE6MQ


----------



## Jacobal

Any amp with a balanced headphone output.


----------



## jerick70

Jacobal said:


> Any amp with a balanced headphone output.


There is a pretty wide margin there when you say all amps.  There are so many caveats to adjust for to quantify if one amp is better than another.   

Anyway.... to answer your question the best I can... Yes and no.  I know it is pretty general because there is so much room for error.  For instance I have owned many a balanced amp and my Woo WA5 has decimated them all and it is a single ended amp.  It does have a balanced "connection" but the amp that connects to that 4 pin XLR isn't balanced.


----------



## jerick70 (Oct 30, 2017)

@Jacobal To bring my answer into a little more perspective.  I've also owned the Woo WA22, which is a fully balanced amp topology.  It was a lot better than the other singled ended and balanced amps I owned before that.  I am hearing that the new Woo WA33 is head and shoulders better than the Other Woo amps and most other headamps out there.

This is my experience though.  This hobby is so subjective and there are so many pieces of gear out there it makes it very hard to quantify an answer to your question.  That's why most seasoned audiophiles will say YMMV.


----------



## donato

Jacobal said:


> Any amp with a balanced headphone output.



As others have said, it depends.  For example, the WA-22 has a balanced topology and doesn't have a splitter on the single ended inputs so if you are using the single ended inputs, you are only using half the amp (i.e. using a true balanced input to the WA22 should be better than the single ended).  

The outputs though on the WA-22 are only single ended since the XLR outputs are wired to the same connections as the single ended ones (I confirmed this too when I opened it up once).  This had been confusing to me in the past since when I originally bought my WA-22, I thought it was a true balanced output based on the description as "WA22 Fully Balanced Headphone Amplifier Balanced design from input to output" on the website.

In the end, it helps to be an informed buyer, but even so, I love the sounds coming from mine.


----------



## abvolt

donato said:


> As others have said, it depends.  For example, the WA-22 has a balanced topology and doesn't have a splitter on the single ended inputs so if you are using the single ended inputs, you are only using half the amp (i.e. using a true balanced input to the WA22 should be better than the single ended).
> 
> The outputs though on the WA-22 are only single ended since the XLR outputs are wired to the same connections as the single ended ones (I confirmed this too when I opened it up once).  This had been confusing to me in the past since when I originally bought my WA-22, I thought it was a true balanced output based on the description as "WA22 Fully Balanced Headphone Amplifier Balanced design from input to output" on the website.
> 
> In the end, it helps to be an informed buyer, but even so, I love the sounds coming from mine.



That's why I bought my wa22 because it's a fully balanced amp in & out just like my dac, so your saying that the wa22 is not a balanced amp ? how do you know do you work on or repair audio gear I'm just asking, don't think Jack Woo would lie to us..


----------



## jerick70

abvolt said:


> That's why I bought my wa22 because it's a fully balanced amp in & out just like my dac, so your saying that the wa22 is not a balanced amp ? how do you know do you work on or repair audio gear I'm just asking, don't think Jack Woo would lie to us..


I wanted to bring up the same question,  but this has been discussed before and I didn't want to beat a dead horse.... But here we go again. 

Woo Audio was very adamant that the WA22 is a fully balanced design. Woo changed the description on there web site so there wouldn't be any confusion. For my personal view on this... I've dealt with Woo for many years and they are honest and decent people, they wouldn't try to mislead us. Here is how Woo describes the WA22 on their site... "WA22 Fully Balanced Headphone Amplifier Balanced design from input to output, Class-A, All Tube Drive, Output Transformer Coupled
*
Realistic, incredible detailed, and tonally balanced sound"*


----------



## mahesvara (Oct 31, 2017)

jerick70 said:


> I wanted to bring up the same question, but this has been discussed before and I didn't want to beat a dead horse.... But here we go again.



Here is a post from another thread that answers this specific question. Hey, it's even in the title: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-wa22-balanced-vs-unbalanced-input.634551/page-2#post-10490026

Now, I emailed Woo Audio before asking about the RCA inputs. They confirmed that the newer versions (2016 at the earliest I think maybe even earlier than 2016) have phase splitter for RCA inputs so even if you use them, the full circuitry is utilized instead of half.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

donato said:


> As others have said, it depends.  For example, the WA-22 has a balanced topology and doesn't have a splitter on the single ended inputs so if you are using the single ended inputs, you are only using half the amp (i.e. using a true balanced input to the WA22 should be better than the single ended).
> 
> *The outputs though on the WA-22 are only single ended since the XLR outputs are wired to the same connections as the single ended ones (I confirmed this too when I opened it up once).  This had been confusing to me in the past since when I originally bought my WA-22, I thought it was a true balanced output based on the description as "WA22 Fully Balanced Headphone Amplifier Balanced design from input to output" on the website.*
> 
> In the end, it helps to be an informed buyer, but even so, I love the sounds coming from mine.



This is incorrect information. This topic have been covered many times here on HF... WA22 and WA33 are fully balanced design in/out. We wouldn't market it as balanced if it wasn't. Just look at how many successful unbalanced products we make. We don't need to sell anyone on the idea of a balanced amp. The ideal connection for WA22 and WA33 is the XLR input from source and XLR output to headphones.

We understand that not everyone has a truly balanced source so we built-in a Phase Inverter inside WA22 so the user will get sound from the XLR and 1/4" outputs when using an unbalanced source via the RCA input. This is a feature we added many years ago without increasing the price.


----------



## Jacobal

So you’re saying those two amps won’t make a difference in performance?


----------



## jerick70 (Oct 31, 2017)

Jacobal said:


> So you’re saying those two amps won’t make a difference in performance?


If you are talking about the WA22 and the WA33 that Mike is talking about, there is a very discernible difference between the two.


----------



## mahesvara

jerick70 said:


> If you are talking about the WA22 and the WA33 that Jack is talking about



That's not Jack (I think) 

And I think that was a reference to the RCA vs XLR inputs instead of WA22 vs WA33


----------



## jerick70 (Oct 31, 2017)

mahesvara said:


> That's not Jack (I think)
> 
> And I think that was a reference to the RCA vs XLR inputs instead of WA22 vs WA33


Yeah your right it's Mike. My bad, it's late. 

I don't know. He said "amps" so I wasn't sure. If he is taking about the XLR vs the RCAs there is a difference performance wise there too.


----------



## mahesvara

jerick70 said:


> If he is taking about the XLR vs the RCAs there is a difference performance wise there too



Yeap, when I piped my Schiit Gumby into the WA22 via RCA (could be my self-hypnosis too), it sounded different. XLR in to XLR out is best.


----------



## Jacobal

It may be a placebo effect. Some people think $10,000 cables sound better than $50 cables.


----------



## jerick70 (Oct 31, 2017)

Jacobal said:


> It may be a placebo effect. Some people think $10,000 cables sound better than $50 cables.


Very valid point.  There's a lot of psychology that goes into the audiophile hobby.

The difference we are talking about between the XLR and SE inputs is electrical and can be measured. So it's also possible that there actually is a difference.


----------



## Maalis

jerick70 said:


> You can look at what tubes are compatible with your amp here... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml
> 
> I don't see the tubes you mention on the chart so I would contact Woo directly and ask them here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...rm?formkey=dDQ2X18zUTRGc2JDazIyYnNMWnRnbkE6MQ



Yes but you see the newer versions of WA6/SE use 13DE7 by default and Woo sells the upgrade to 13EM7 with adapters. I just need to know if I can use any 8-pin to 9-pin adapter for this.


----------



## jerick70

Maalis said:


> Yes but you see the newer versions of WA6/SE use 13DE7 by default and Woo sells the upgrade to 13EM7 with adapters. I just need to know if I can use any 8-pin to 9-pin adapter for this.


You know more than I do then. I would send Woo an email. They will know the answer.


----------



## daverich4

donato said:


> As others have said, it depends.  For example, the WA-22 has a balanced topology and doesn't have a splitter on the single ended inputs so if you are using the single ended inputs, you are only using half the amp (i.e. using a true balanced input to the WA22 should be better than the single ended). .



My WA 22 is like that but a couple of years ago Woo changed the topology so if you buy a current WA 22 that description is no longer true. You get the same volume out of the single ended inputs as the balanced ones with the current model.


----------



## jerick70

mahesvara said:


> Yeap, when I piped my Schiit Gumby into the WA22 via RCA (could be my self-hypnosis too), it sounded different. XLR in to XLR out is best.


I don't think it is "self-hypnosis" at all. I think you're definitely hearing a difference.  There is a measurable difference in the input to output electrically.


----------



## donato

Jacobal said:


> Any amp with a balanced headphone output.





HiFiGuy528 said:


> This is incorrect information. This topic have been covered many times here on HF... WA22 and WA33 are fully balanced design in/out. We wouldn't market it as balanced if it wasn't. Just look at how many successful unbalanced products we make. We don't need to sell anyone on the idea of a balanced amp. The ideal connection for WA22 and WA33 is the XLR input from source and XLR output to headphones.
> 
> We understand that not everyone has a truly balanced source so we built-in a Phase Inverter inside WA22 so the user will get sound from the XLR and 1/4" outputs when using an unbalanced source via the RCA input. This is a feature we added many years ago without increasing the price.



Hi Mike (Mike helped me out on my recent repair on my WA22).  I stand corrected.  I opened up my WA22 and confirmed it was exactly as you said on the RCA input.  My mistake for repeating old information (sad because I even did what I thought was due diligence and searched to confirm that this was what I had read about the amp before posting my reply).

Regarding the output, I think where I am getting confused is that the output is balanced, but not differential and I was making the assumption that balanced=differential, which is not true.  Is that correct?  So it is fair to say it is balanced output, but not differential (all the output channels look like they are just wired in parallel).  Because of this then, would it then be accurate to say that the signaling is no different on the single ended and balanced connections?


----------



## Jacobal

Anyway, I’d like to post on my past experience with Woo amps. I had the WA6 and was expecting it to have that famous sweet tube sound, but it didn’t regardless of all the upgraded tubes I used. Heck, it sounded just as clean and flat as my flattest solid state amps. 

I’ll stick to Little Dot. They’re known to make amps that actually sound like tubes.


----------



## watchdog507

Jacobal said:


> Anyway, I’d like to post on my past experience with Woo amps. I had the WA6 and was expecting it to have that famous sweet tube sound, but it didn’t regardless of all the upgraded tubes I used. Heck, it sounded just as clean and flat as my flattest solid state amps.
> 
> I’ll stick to Little Dot. They’re known to make amps that actually sound like tubes.



Based on my recollections, my WA6 did sound like tubes.  It's not a particularly resolving amp and It was harsh and bloated at the bottom end.  I considered it to be no better than a tube buffer at best. I agree, no amount of money spent on tubes made my WA6 sound better.  I moved  to a WA5-LE and I've not been happier.


----------



## joseph69

I enjoy my WA6 very much.


----------



## Jacobal

I hear the WA5 is even better.


----------



## joseph69

Well I sure hope it is.


----------



## Xecuter

watchdog507 said:


> Based on my recollections, my WA6 did sound like tubes.  It's not a particularly resolving amp and It was harsh and bloated at the bottom end.  I considered it to be no better than a tube buffer at best. I agree, no amount of money spent on tubes made my WA6 sound better.  I moved  to a WA5-LE and I've not been happier.



The wa33 is the only amp I've heard from woo that really resolves incredibly well. The wa5 maxed out was not too far behind, however the stock wa5 was a disappointment. 
I was never a huge fan of wa6, wa22, wa7 and wa234 (endless tube possibilities, however design and transformer issues were a concern).


----------



## Jozurr

watchdog507 said:


> I have Woo WA5-LE Gen 2 and it is my preferred amp with my Utopia’s.  For rectifiers I like EML 5U4G’s or United 596’s (you’ll need adapters) for drivers I like Tung Sol round plates, 6SN7’s or the same in 6F8G with adapters for power I like EML or KR 300b tubes these are the best configuration after many less satisfactory experiments.



Aah I wish I could a pair of Tung Sol BGRP 6SN7 or 6F8G somewhere. I have the 12SN7 version for my Liquid Glass but WA5 does not accept 12SN7


----------



## watchdog507

Jozurr said:


> Aah I wish I could a pair of Tung Sol BGRP 6SN7 or 6F8G somewhere. I have the 12SN7 version for my Liquid Glass but WA5 does not accept 12SN7



I takes some patience to assemble the best tubes and unfortunately a lot more money.  Lately, I've noticed that there are fewer and fewer sales of some of the best tubes.  I have back up's of all of my favourites and they go nowhere.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@donato no worries... glad we have it cleared up. 

differential-balanced (most costly) and phase inverter balanced (most common) are very different


----------



## Jacobal

Thanks. If anyone in Southern California wants to sell their WA5, let me know.


----------



## rexhu100

I'm a complete noob when it comes to Woo Audio equipment. So I have a naive question about WA2. What are those 3 rectangular cubes in the rear of amp? Amps with this configuration are all transformer coupled (2 input transformer and 1 output transformer). But WA2 is an OTL amp, so what are in those boxes?


----------



## joseph69

I'm not an expert in any way/shape or form on any amplifier topology, but I would think their capacitors, no?


----------



## jmpsmash

rexhu100 said:


> I'm a complete noob when it comes to Woo Audio equipment. So I have a naive question about WA2. What are those 3 rectangular cubes in the rear of amp? Amps with this configuration are all transformer coupled (2 input transformer and 1 output transformer). But WA2 is an OTL amp, so what are in those boxes?



my guess the middle one is the power supply transformer, while the 2 side smaller ones are the filter choke for the power supply.


----------



## davehg

I own a WA22 and a Sony HAPZ1ES, which sports both balanced and single ended outputs. IThe WA22 sounds noticeably better on the balanced inputs, and slight better using balanced HP outputs.

I also have a Gen I WA5 with Max upgrade (vCaps and Black gates). It sounds absolutely fantastic, and has the benefit of powering a set of efficient speakers.


----------



## Csericks

What speakers do you drive with with your WA5?


----------



## Jozurr

I really enjoy the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates 6SN7GT. Has anyone tried the 6F8G or 6C8G versions of the Black Glass Round plates on the WA5? If yes, how do they compare to the 6SN7GT?


----------



## phase0

Jozurr said:


> I really enjoy the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates 6SN7GT. Has anyone tried the 6F8G or 6C8G versions of the Black Glass Round plates on the WA5? If yes, how do they compare to the 6SN7GT?



The TSRP 6F8G is my favorite for the WA5. I don't have experience with the TSRP 6SN7 to compare. But between the 6SN7s I did try vs any 6F8Gs I generally preferred the 6F8G. My #2 would go to National Union 6C8G (I tried 6F8G and they ended up being noisy but the 6C8Gs ran great).


----------



## Jacobal

Help me out with the WA5. Which tube requires replacement over stock? All? Some?


----------



## watchdog507

Jacobal said:


> Help me out with the WA5. Which tube requires replacement over stock? All? Some?



The stock tubes are pretty coarse at best.  There are a lot of opinions on great tubes. I like EML and KR 300B Power and EML 5U4G Rectifiers and Tung Sol 6SN7's  or 6F8G Tung Sols (my fav) with adapters.  You are only limited by your wallet here.  There are diminishing returns at the ridiculous end though.


----------



## Jacobal (Nov 6, 2017)

I know that the EC Zana only needs a single tube replacement. I was just wondering for the WA5.

So you replaced 4 tubes outta the 6? Also, give me an estimated price for all the tube upgrades your WA5 is on now.


----------



## watchdog507

Jacobal said:


> I know that the EC Zana only needs a single tube replacement. I was just wondering for the WA5.
> 
> So you replaced 4 tubes outta the 6?



No I replaced all of them.  The stock Woo tubes are not a sonic home run.


----------



## Jacobal

You may want to reread my comment. I changed it around and added more.


----------



## pippen99

I would start with the drive and power tubes first and leave the rectifiers to last.  My take from reading this thread and experience with my own WA5 is that the rectifiers have the least impact on SQ.  That being said you can get a perfectly serviceable pair of NOS Brimars for about $65 or for a change some WU4GB SS rectifiers for about $50.  The big money is in the power tubes and the large variety of ever increasingly scarce and expensive drive tubes.


----------



## watchdog507

pippen99 said:


> I would start with the drive and power tubes first and leave the rectifiers to last.  My take from reading this thread and experience with my own WA5 is that the rectifiers have the least impact on SQ.  That being said you can get a perfectly serviceable pair of NOS Brimars for about $65 or for a change some WU4GB SS rectifiers for about $50.  The big money is in the power tubes and the large variety of ever increasingly scarce and expensive drive tubes.



If you search my posts I describe this exactly.  You start with Driver then Power and lastly rectifier.  Changes here will make an immediate difference. The Rectifiers are icing on the cake and they do have an impact.  There are many choices.  I didn't have good luck with Brimar's from Langrex, 3 out of 4 went bad. I moved on. My favorite is the United 596 even Woo likes this 596 tube enough to resell it.


----------



## Jacobal

Watchdog, can you please answer to my last question from my previous post? Thanks.


----------



## watchdog507 (Nov 6, 2017)

Jacobal said:


> I know that the EC Zana only needs a single tube replacement. I was just wondering for the WA5.
> 
> So you replaced 4 tubes outta the 6? Also, give me an estimated price for all the tube upgrades your WA5 is on now.



You can go used tubes.  Many people buy them and move on with few hours.  For power used EML or KR 300B's are about $400-$450 a pair.   United 596's can be found for $200 a pair, adapters are about $30.  Tung Sol 6F8G round plates are about $400 a pair and adapters again $30 for a pair.


----------



## Jacobal

HOLY CRAP, so you’ve spent $1000 on tubes? WA5 is $6000, so that’s $7000 total minus headphones and dac.


----------



## phase0 (Nov 6, 2017)

Jacobal said:


> HOLY CRAP, so you’ve spent $1000 on tubes? WA5 is $6000, so that’s $7000 total minus headphones and dac.



You can get the EML 300B for around $600. PM me I have some I'd let go for cheaper. The Taks are close to $2000. KRs are reported to be good for around $1200. I've seen the TSRP 6F8Gs go for over $300 a pair. I had no idea when I got my WA5. I might not have done it if I had known. Now that I have it, well I plan to keep it and I got some nice tubes for it. You don't necessarily have to break the bank tho. From all the reading I did, and I was told, that the EML is the best of the rest. So on the cheaper end that is hard to beat. Then you can still upgrade further later (I just got Taks last summer). You can get some cheap 6F8G and 6SN7 tubes still. A little bit of play/experimentation can be good to gain a little experience with the options. I got bad tubes a few times like KedRad 6SN7 which was disappointing but the seller accepted returns. I don't really want to think about how much I spent now. I will say paired with the Abyss Phi, it is about as close to audio Nirvana as I've had in my setup. Subjectively totally worth it.


----------



## leftside

I'm sure a bunch of us have spent a LOT more than $1000 on tubes... When I purchased my second headphone amp, I bought the best available tubes and promised myself I wouldn't roll any more tubes. So far I've managed to stick to my word.


----------



## pippen99

leftside said:


> I'm sure a bunch of us have spent a LOT more than $1000 on tubes... When I purchased my second headphone amp, I bought the best available tubes and promised myself I wouldn't roll any more tubes. So far I've managed to stick to my word.



That has been my approach.  I bought my WA5 with the upgraded SERP 300B, Sophia 274, and the Sylvania 6sn7gt.  I bought some fairly inexpensive backups(Brimar 5Z4Gy, Weber WU4GB and Kenrad 6SN7GT) so to have something on hand if something burned out.  I still would be able to use the amp while I searched for a proper replacement of the offending tube.  I didn't backup the 300B since even a decent backup is still over $200(Genelex Gold Lions maybe).  I am satisfied without feeling the need to roll tube after tube in looking for that last bit of heaven


----------



## reeltime (Nov 7, 2017)

Jacobal said:


> HOLY CRAP, so you’ve spent $1000 on tubes? WA5 is $6000, so that’s $7000 total minus headphones and dac.



That's not even close to what I've spent on tubes. I went the EML route first-- both the power and rectifier, around $1000ish. Nice tubes, but there are better. Bought a pair of NOS 596s, of course those need the Frankenstein tube adapters, too. I tried the CV-181 Treasure drivers, those sucked, another $400 down the drain. Then I upgraded to Elrogs, which were as good as the Takatsukis, but they failed after a year, goodbye $1100. Now I'm on the Takatsuki power tubes, $1600. I finally settled on Tung Sol RP 6SN7s at $300 for drivers, after playing around with a few others. The rectifiers-- I found a pair of 1956 GZ34 metal base NOS for $700, a matched pair, and I'm going to buy the Taks at some point for another $1500 or so. There are some guys who swear by the WE 300B. Find those for under $5000 and you've got a steal on your hands.

This for a WA5-LE V2 with the premium parts package, $6500.


----------



## watchdog507 (Nov 7, 2017)

reeltime said:


> That's not even close to what I've spent on tubes. I went the EML route first-- both the power and rectifier, around $1000ish. Nice tubes, but there are better. Bought a pair of NOS 596s, of course those need the Frankenstein tube adapters, too. I tried the CV-181 Treasure drivers, those sucked, another $400 down the drain. Then I upgraded to Elrogs, which were as good as the Takatsukis, but they failed after a year, goodbye $1100. Now I'm on the Takatsuki power tubes, $1600. I finally settled on Tung Sol RP 6SN7s at $300 for drivers, after playing around with a few others. The rectifiers-- I found a pair of 1956 GZ34 metal base NOS for $700, a matched pair, and I'm going to buy the Taks at some point for another $1500 or so. There are some guys who swear by the WE 300B. Find those for under $5000 and you've got a steal on your hands.
> 
> This for a WA5-LE V2 with the premium parts package, $6500.



Yes it's not hard to get into the $1000's for tubes for a WA5-LE.  The good news is that the tube rolling options are great.  The other benefit is that there is a wealth of knowledge about people who have gone down the rabbit hole.  If you buy used, you can flip the tubes if you don't like them.  As for EML tubes I like the 520B V3, it's spectacular.  EML from Jac Music will net you up to five years warranty on registration quote:  *"GUARANTEE CONDITIONS: Electron tubes are replacement parts. On Emissionlabs tubes, we offer an extended guarantee of maximum 5 Years",* . This is reassuring for those of us who have had tube failures.  I've never had an EML fail though  .Lately I've noticed that used great tubes don't seem to appear on the obvious sites often. When I see an option I move fast.


----------



## rexhu100

watchdog507 said:


> Yes it's not hard to get into the $1000's for tubes for a WA5-LE.  The good news is that the tube rolling options are great.  The other benefit is that there is a wealth of knowledge about people who have gone down the rabbit hole.  If you buy used, you can flip the tubes if you don't like them.  As for EML tubes I like the 520B V3, it's spectacular.  EML from Jac Music will net you up to five years warranty on registration quote:  *"GUARANTEE CONDITIONS: Electron tubes are replacement parts. On Emissionlabs tubes, we offer an extended guarantee of maximum 5 Years",* . This is reassuring for those of us who have had tube failures.  I've never had an EML fail though  .Lately I've noticed that used great tubes don't seem to appear on the obvious sites often. When I see an option I move fast.



Dang! Here I thought $100 for a pair of tubes is expensive...


----------



## PHC1

Hey guys looking for advice on Woo Amp and Focal Utopia?


----------



## Jozurr (Nov 7, 2017)

phase0 said:


> The TSRP 6F8G is my favorite for the WA5. I don't have experience with the TSRP 6SN7 to compare. But between the 6SN7s I did try vs any 6F8Gs I generally preferred the 6F8G. My #2 would go to National Union 6C8G (I tried 6F8G and they ended up being noisy but the 6C8Gs ran great).



I wonder how the TSRP 6C8G compare to the TSRP 6F8G considering the 6C8G are 1/3 the price. Im tempted to buy the 6SN7GT TSRP for $300-400 but if the 6F8G are half the price or 6C8G less than 1/3 the price and not sonically different, Id like to go that route instead. Also thinking about the 6SL7 TSRP which are also cheap.

Also, has any one compared the WE 300B to EML or Takats?


----------



## watchdog507

PHC1 said:


> Hey guys looking for advice on Woo Amp and Focal Utopia?



My Utopia's are almost permanently connected to my WA5-LE. The sound is so good that I've done 3-4 hours in a row and never fatigued. As much as I love the Violectric V281, it gets back up duty here.  The Woo is that good!


----------



## PHC1

watchdog507 said:


> My Utopia's are almost permanently connected to my WA5-LE. The sound is so good that I've done 3-4 hours in a row and never fatigued. As much as I love the Violectric V281, it gets back up duty here.  The Woo is that good!


Nice! The Violectric V281 was my other option.


----------



## watchdog507

Jozurr said:


> I wonder how the TSRP 6C8G compare to the TSRP 6F8G considering the 6C8G are 1/3 the price. Im tempted to buy the 6SN7GT TSRP for $300-400 but if the 6F8G are half the price or 6C8G less than 1/3 the price and not sonically different, Id like to go that route instead. Also thinking about the 6SL7 TSRP which are also cheap.
> 
> Also, has any one compared the WE 300B to EML or Takats?



I love my EML 520B V3's and as a second I like the KR 300B's.  My concern with Western Electric 300B's is the history.  Every seller tells you NOS and I say what?  Who knows what they may have been through.  These were designed as an amplifier tube and many had a hard life. You can only go by testing and that is a guideline.  The other problem is that WE's are a status symbol in Japan and China and the buyers will pay a premium for a tube that I'm not interested in competing for.  The Takatsuki's have great reviews as a tube that does it all well.  Tak's do come up on the used market for $1k to $1.2k.  There is a seller locally that sells new Tak's for $1695 US.


----------



## reeltime

watchdog507 said:


> If you buy used, you can flip the tubes if you don't like them.



Just make sure you are getting some sort of guarantee that the used tubes are tested and matched pairs. If they're not matched, the balance will be off in your headphones. I found out the hard way.


----------



## watchdog507

reeltime said:


> Just make sure you are getting some sort of guarantee that the used tubes are tested and matched pairs. If they're not matched, the balance will be off in your headphones. I found out the hard way.



You're usually not going to get a guarantee on resale. If the tube is DOA maybe a reseller would take it back.  Most of my tubes were sold originally as pairs so I have reassurance that they were a matched pair at origin.  I've never had a used tube purchase DOA.  I have had a tube misrepresented as 100 hours or so.  In fact it was a testing a 50% of new so that was nonsense.  It's a back up tube so not a biggie.


----------



## Jozurr

watchdog507 said:


> I love my EML 520B V3's and as a second I like the KR 300B's.  My concern with Western Electric 300B's is the history.  Every seller tells you NOS and I say what?  Who knows what they may have been through.  These were designed as an amplifier tube and many had a hard life. You can only go by testing and that is a guideline.  The other problem is that WE's are a status symbol in Japan and China and the buyers will pay a premium for a tube that I'm not interested in competing for.  The Takatsuki's have great reviews as a tube that does it all well.  Tak's do come up on the used market for $1k to $1.2k.  There is a seller locally that sells new Tak's for $1695 US.



I understand where you are coming from - without regards to the varying price on tubes, how does the sound compare between the EML, Takat and WE?


----------



## watchdog507

Jozurr said:


> I understand where you are coming from - without regards to the varying price on tubes, how does the sound compare between the EML, Takat and WE?



I wish that I could answer that because I have thought about a pair of Takatsuki's.  There are WE detractors out there so my guess is tired tubes or the bane of high end........fakes. The WE reissues from the 90's are apparently good but not the same as true vintage according to aficionados. I love my EML 520B V3's and I just got a pair of EML 300B XLS's  the XLS's are very close. What I like about these EML's is power, punch for bass and details for midrange and  highs.  They are very reliable to boot. The Takatsuki's have been described as  detailed and refined. I don't know how that would translate into sound for my ears.


----------



## Jozurr

I'm ordering a pair of 6C8G tubes. Does anyone have any recommendations for 6C8G to 6SN7 adapters? or maybe between the two below, which ones are better if someone has bought either of them?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-6F8G-6C8...089688?hash=item41cd59d0d8:g:jG0AAOSwhcJWJ2~W

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...376038&hash=item2ed27587c4:g:WGgAAOSw-vlVpPYT


----------



## watchdog507

Jozurr said:


> I'm ordering a pair of 6C8G tubes. Does anyone have any recommendations for 6C8G to 6SN7 adapters? or maybe between the two below, which ones are better if someone has bought either of them?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-6F8G-6C8...089688?hash=item41cd59d0d8:g:jG0AAOSwhcJWJ2~W
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...376038&hash=item2ed27587c4:g:WGgAAOSw-vlVpPYT



I've bought adapters and other products from both of these sellers and they were both acceptable in looks and performance.  Shipping is fairly quick, about 10 business days or so.


----------



## jerick70

Jozurr said:


> I'm ordering a pair of 6C8G tubes. Does anyone have any recommendations for 6C8G to 6SN7 adapters? or maybe between the two below, which ones are better if someone has bought either of them?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-6F8G-6C8...089688?hash=item41cd59d0d8:g:jG0AAOSwhcJWJ2~W
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...376038&hash=item2ed27587c4:g:WGgAAOSw-vlVpPYT


You can get adapters from Woo Audio.  They will get to you a lot quicker than the Ebay sellers in China.


----------



## Jozurr

jerick70 said:


> You can get adapters from Woo Audio.  They will get to you a lot quicker than the Ebay sellers in China.



I couldnt find them on their website. Any idea on pricing/shipping?


----------



## jerick70 (Nov 7, 2017)

Jozurr said:


> I couldnt find them on their website. Any idea on pricing/shipping?


I don't think they list them on their site.  If you email or PM Mike he will be able to get you pricing.  Mike is @HiFiGuy528 here on head-fi.  His email is mikeATwooaudio.com.


----------



## watchdog507

jerick70 said:


> You can get adapters from Woo Audio.  They will get to you a lot quicker than the Ebay sellers in China.



I have the Woo 6F8G>6SN7 and Woo 596>5U4G and the cost was about $400US for the two pairs. If you aren't hung up on these adapters looks you'll save plenty of money.  I like the Nylon and Gold construction.  You can see them in the image below.


----------



## watchdog507 (Nov 7, 2017)

This is the Woo adapter cost from my emails:   6F8G $45 each and 596 adapter $100 each


----------



## joseph69

Jozurr said:


> I couldnt find them on their website. Any idea on pricing/shipping?


@jerick70 is correct, you need to contact Woo about their adapters. Woo makes really nice adapters. I have their 6SN7 adapters and the build quality is top notch.


----------



## phase0

watchdog507 said:


> My Utopia's are almost permanently connected to my WA5-LE. The sound is so good that I've done 3-4 hours in a row and never fatigued. As much as I love the Violectric V281, it gets back up duty here. The Woo is that good!



I sold my Utopias recently but I would say exactly the same thing for the time that I had them. Now with the Abyss Phi tentatively I would say the cycle continues. I think there is a great synergy between the Abyss and the WA5. I do think that the V281 had a bit more speed, bass, and more clarity/definition than the WA5 w/ the tubes I was running. But the WA5 has that smooth silkiness that just makes everything nice and only felt a tiny bit behind on detail. With the Abyss and Taks I don't think I'm missing anything there in speed, bass, clarity, etc. Holy crap the Abyss is more of a monster than I imagined with just the demo time I had at CanJam. IMHO, run as fast as you can and get one. Sell whatever you have to to fund it. 



watchdog507 said:


> I wish that I could answer that because I have thought about a pair of Takatsuki's. There are WE detractors out there so my guess is tired tubes or the bane of high end........fakes. The WE reissues from the 90's are apparently good but not the same as true vintage according to aficionados. I love my EML 520B V3's and I just got a pair of EML 300B XLS's the XLS's are very close. What I like about these EML's is power, punch for bass and details for midrange and highs. They are very reliable to boot. The Takatsuki's have been described as detailed and refined. I don't know how that would translate into sound for my ears.



So I went EML 300B (not the XLS) to the Taks. I felt more bass, seemed more precise and more punchy, and more refined. I didn't start swapping back and forth and I didn't take any notes, felt more expanded and maybe more detailed. It just felt more expanded. I wish I knew how to be more precisely descriptive but it really hit me when I plugged them in first time, like wow this is definitely a level up. Considering the cost I just don't know, I want them but not want to pay $1900 for them. 



Jozurr said:


> I'm ordering a pair of 6C8G tubes. Does anyone have any recommendations for 6C8G to 6SN7 adapters? or maybe between the two below, which ones are better if someone has bought either of them?



Woo Audio of course. They make some nice ones as others already mentioned. Also consider 2359glenn (you can PM him), he also does excellent work. I have adapters from both. I can't tell any difference like one sounds better than the other. I think it's more like ascetics and Glenn offered me a choice of colors.

For used Taks I think most of them in the states come in via WooAudio. Seems like they only are in sets. I guess if you're out on ebay then who knows but there should be a return policy. Both my EML and Taks came as a matched pair. The WA5 also has autobias so it can correct some small imbalance IIRC. There's always check the return policy before you buy. Make sure you can send it back if you don't like it. And when buying used tubes always plug them in and make sure they work and sound ok before your return policy expires.


----------



## Jozurr

watchdog507 said:


> This is the Woo adapter cost from my emails:   6F8G $45 each and 596 adapter $100 each



So three times the price of the ones I linked and more expensive than the tubes themselves. I highly doubt the quality vs price here.


----------



## watchdog507

Price  / Performance isn't the measure here.  I wanted an all WOO system that looked and sounded good.  The resale will still be higher for WOO adapters if I move on to another amp that doesn't use them.


----------



## Badas

watchdog507 said:


> Price  / Performance isn't the measure here.



Agreed. It's not often about price. Why by cheap when expensive will do. 

I got Glenn to make my adapters. I wanted the wires to go out the back so they weren't seen or in the way.


----------



## watchdog507

Jozurr said:


> So three times the price of the ones I linked and more expensive than the tubes themselves. I highly doubt the quality vs price here.





Badas said:


> Agreed. It's not often about price. Why by cheap when expensive will do.
> 
> I got Glenn to make my adapters. I wanted the wires to go out the back so they weren't seen or in the way.



I agree with the way that you've had Glen make the adapters with the cable out of line of sight.  
It's a great feature. Woo's school of thought must be if you have them flaunt them!  Mine are definitely in your face.


----------



## Badas

watchdog507 said:


> I agree with the way that you've had Glen make the adapters with the cable out of line of sight.
> It's a great feature. Woo's school of thought must be if you have them flaunt them!  Mine are definitely in your face.



I've got a set of those as well (in your face type). With the old school brown caps on top. 
They get a slight bit of noise with the wires out the side from the power tubes. I did notice a lower noise floor once they were out the back.


----------



## watchdog507

Interesting about the noise.  The wires are unshielded so it is possible that stray RFI could get captured.  Mine are totally silent but I have Nordost and PS Audio AC12 power cables and a PS Audio P5 and Power Base filtering RFI, THD and providing regulated power.


----------



## Badas

watchdog507 said:


> Interesting about the noise.  The wires are unshielded so it is possible that stray RFI could get captured.  Mine are totally silent but I have Nordost and PS Audio AC12 power cables and a PS Audio P5 and Power Base filtering RFI, THD and providing regulated power.



I turn my remote controlled lights on and I get noise. Standard lights don't get noise. 
So the wires can pick up a bit.


----------



## watchdog507

Badas said:


> I turn my remote controlled lights on and I get noise. Standard lights don't get noise.
> So the wires can pick up a bit.



Our whole house has Insteon wireless mesh and power line control. I think we have over 100 addresses but I haven’t heard any RFI fortunately.


----------



## Badas

watchdog507 said:


> Our whole house has Insteon wireless mesh and power line control. I think we have over 100 addresses but I haven’t heard any RFI fortunately.



I don't hear any either. 

It can happen internally. Like my remote lights. I did an experiment years ago and put a cellphone next to a wire and that
set it off. 
I keep my DAC away as much as possible as I had noted a old DAC set them off when it was too close.


----------



## attmci

Badas said:


> I don't hear any either.
> 
> It can happen internally. Like my remote lights. I did an experiment years ago and put a cellphone next to a wire and that
> set it off.
> I keep my DAC away as much as possible as I had noted a old DAC set them off when it was too close.


Your amp is too sensitive. You should ask Woo Audio to rewire your transformer.


----------



## Badas

attmci said:


> Your amp is too sensitive. You should ask Woo Audio to rewire your transformer.



Interesting. It might explain why I had so many issues with noisy power tubes. 

I'm in the wrong country to send back. So I will just live with it.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Nov 9, 2017)

eBay vs. ours.... you be the judge which has higher build quality.


----------



## Xecuter

HiFiGuy528 said:


> eBay vs. ours.... you be the judge which has higher build quality.



Do you guys make this for the wa33?
I need some custom ones for 2a3 with super wide pins. Like AVVT and Fivre.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Hey guys, I need your help.

Was looking to try tubes for once.  Currently using the Asgard 2 and Grados GH1 and GH2.  So I was all set in buying the WA6-SE, until I emailed Woo myself.  The rep actually recommend the WA2 for my Grados and having a really good sound signature.  

So now I am confused, since the WA2 is a pure OTL amp, and those don't normally drive Grados too well.  Perhaps the WA6-SE is still solid state sounding?

Any feedback would be nice.  Thanks!


----------



## abvolt

Badas said:


> Agreed. It's not often about price. Why by cheap when expensive will do.
> 
> I got Glenn to make my adapters. I wanted the wires to go out the back so they weren't seen or in the way.


 Now that's a good idea looks great it has a very clean look to it, might have Glenn make me a pair if he has the time..enjoy


----------



## phase0

It's weird to me, that if you're going to spend $6K USD on an amp that some small pin converter for $90 / pair is suddenly an issue. My decision process was I want the best quality all the way through. As well many things made in China are garbage. Remember all the cheap iPhone charges that lacked protection circuits and caused the phones to be damaged? I know this is much simpler so it's not exactly a good choice for comparison but it's first thing came to mind. I don't have test equip and IANA EE so I'm not qualified to say really if the cheap one is any worse than what Woo builds. I can say the WA adapter looks much better. Another thing I was thinking since I was new to tubes was: what if I some how have something blow up or catch on fire? I could say Hey I used WA components 100% through and through. That may be a little ridiculous but that was one of the reasons in my head.


----------



## Jacobal

Ok guys, I’m planning to get the Wa6 amp and upgrade the tube to Takatsuki 274. I plan on getting the tube by itself off the Woo site. Wonder how it’ll sound.


----------



## Badas

Jacobal said:


> Ok guys, I’m planning to get the Wa6 amp and upgrade the tube to Takatsuki 274. I plan on getting the tube by itself off the Woo site. Wonder how it’ll sound.



I've heard a WA6 with TAK274B and Tung-Sol round plates 6C8G's (It had multiple driver adapters). 
It was fantastic.


----------



## Jacobal

Ah thanks, if anyone wants to sell me their Takatsuki rectifier or something similar, I’d be interested.


----------



## Jozurr

I just got the Tunsol 6C8G tubes along with 6C8G to 6SN7 Adapters from @2359glenn . Thank you for the excellent tube recommendation @Badas !! The tubes are better than the Sylvania 6SN7GT I had in there!

Using them on the WA5LE-MKII with WE 300B tubes and RCA 5R4GY - I wonder if the next upgrade should be the RCA rectifiers to something better. I have the Sophia Mesh plates, but I dont seem to like them as much.


----------



## MIKELAP

Abvolt  suggested  the 6SC7GT tube and i can say that like him these are a very nice sounding tubes. I especially like the Brimar 6SC7GT. Lucky for me i found 7 of them nearby but unfortunately they werent cheap .They are used with a 6SC7 TO 6SN7  adapter found here  .                                                                                                                                                                              https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## attmci

MIKELAP said:


> Abvolt  suggested  the 6SC7GT tube and i can say that like him these are a very nice sounding tubes. I especially like the Brimar 6SC7GT. Lucky for me i found 7 of them nearby but unfortunately they werent cheap .They are used with a 6SC7 TO 6SN7  adapter found here  .                                                                                                                                                                              https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SC7-CV1969-TO-6SL7GT-CV1984-VT229-6H9C-tube-converter-adapter/191341604228?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Why you wanna to get rid of these nice tubes.....

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649390354-2-pairs-of-brimar-6sc7gt/


----------



## MIKELAP (Nov 25, 2017)

attmci said:


> Why you wanna to get rid of these nice tubes.....
> 
> http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649390354-2-pairs-of-brimar-6sc7gt/


Looking to fund a tube speaker amp also have a Crack +Speedball and a 832a Tube/Speaker amp for sale on Canuck


----------



## Jacobal

Are there any similar sounding tubes to the Taks and WEs out there? I’m planning on getting the EC Aficionado.


----------



## Xecuter

Jacobal said:


> Are there any similar sounding tubes to the Taks and WEs out there? I’m planning on getting the EC Aficionado.



Try get copper rods, spring top, wavy plate for AF. one of the best sounding 2a3. Same if not better than my avvt and mono plate.


----------



## attmci

MIKELAP said:


> Looking to fund a tube speaker amp also have a Crack +Speedball and a 832a Tube/Speaker amp for sale on Canuck


I see.


----------



## Jacobal

And how much do those cost? I need a pair.


----------



## MIKELAP

Jacobal said:


> And how much do those cost? I need a pair.


Send me a pm please. Thanks


----------



## Xecuter

Jacobal said:


> And how much do those cost? I need a pair.



Depends which brand. Philips and fivre make copper rod 2a3s. They are fairly unknown so prices aren't as bad as Cunningham mono plates, however I would expect 3-500 on a good pair.


----------



## isquirrel

Jacobal said:


> Are there any similar sounding tubes to the Taks and WEs out there? I’m planning on getting the EC Aficionado.


The KR HP 300B Balloon and KR 274B HP are very very good. Consider I have Taks, WE's, Elrog's (new production and Elrog 274B) all my listening for the past 5 months has been KR HP 300B Balloon and 274B Rectifier. and they are great value for money. Forget everything you have previously heard of KR's these HP's are the business. Kudos to Joe > JPS Labs.


----------



## isquirrel

I am going to be selling off most of my rare 6SN7's including TSRP's,11 matched pairs 1942 production. Sylvannia Chrome Domes and Metal bases, Bad Boys, RCA Black Glass and Red Bases. PM if anyone is interested please. No longer using 6SN7's.


----------



## isquirrel

Jacobal said:


> Ah thanks, if anyone wants to sell me their Takatsuki rectifier or something similar, I’d be interested.


I have a pair of Tan 274B's. PM me if interested.


----------



## Jacobal

Has anyone had any experience with the Full Music 274b? Those aesthetically look amazing.


----------



## attmci

Jacobal said:


> Ok guys, I’m planning to get the Wa6 amp and upgrade the tube to Takatsuki 274. I plan on getting the tube by itself off the Woo site. Wonder how it’ll sound.


I suggest you get the WA6 or WA22 or WA5, WA33 first, then try to tube rolling.


----------



## Jacobal

I’m changing my mind on the Wa6. I’m actually getting the IHA-1 amp. A single 274b upgrade like Taks or Full Sound should be good enough. No idea if the optional transformer upgrade makes a difference.


----------



## Badas (Nov 26, 2017)

Jacobal said:


> I’m changing my mind on the Wa6. I’m actually getting the IHA-1 amp. A single 274b upgrade like Taks or Full Sound should be good enough. No idea if the optional transformer upgrade makes a difference.



Cute amp. Lundahl transformers are the best and will make a difference.

I've heard a custom amp with three Lundahl transformers


----------



## Jacobal

Have you compared the amp side by side with the upgrade and non-upgrade?

The upgrade for IHA-1 only includes one transformer replacement from Moonaudio for 250.


----------



## Badas (Nov 26, 2017)

Jacobal said:


> Have you compared the amp side by side with the upgrade and non-upgrade?
> 
> The upgrade for IHA-1 only includes one transformer replacement from Moonaudio for 250.



Nope. Not really easy to do.
The Transformer has been noted to have a extremely low noise level.
The amp with Lundahl transformers I heard sounded smoother, warmer and more detailed than a WA5 that was beside it.
It is the best sounding tube amp I have heard. However it should be tho. The guy sunk $9K on it.


----------



## attmci

Jacobal said:


> Have you compared the amp side by side with the upgrade and non-upgrade?
> 
> The upgrade for IHA-1 only includes one transformer replacement from Moonaudio for 250.


Better ask guys here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/inspire-iha-1-tube-headphone-amp.738844/


----------



## attmci

Badas said:


> Nope. Not really easy to do.
> The Transformer has been noted to have a extremely low noise level.
> The amp with Lundahl transformers I heard sounded smoother, warmer and more detailed than a WA5 that was beside it.
> It is the best sounding tube amp I have heard. However it should be tho. The guy sunk $9K on it.


So true. Never compare orange to apple.


----------



## UntilThen

Badas said:


> Nope. Not really easy to do.
> The Transformer has been noted to have a extremely low noise level.
> The amp with Lundahl transformers I heard sounded smoother, warmer and more detailed than a WA5 that was beside it.
> It is the best sounding tube amp I have heard. However it should be tho. The guy sunk $9K on it.



That's 300b amp made by Glenn R, the specialist tube amp designer / builder. He is currently making me an OTL amp that runs 6 x 6BL7 or 2/4 6AS7 or 2 x 6336 and is switchable for 6 / 12 or 25 volts. There's a boost switch for 5998 tubes. Driver tubes are a single *SN7 or a pair of Siemens C3G. It will have one Lundahl transformer.

If the Glenn 300b amp sounds more detail than the WA5, then it must be something because I heard a WA5 source from Yggdrasil at a recent meet and I reckon it's right up there for end game status. I also heard the Susvara driven by the WA33 at the Sydney HiFi show. That's an out of this world sound.


----------



## Badas

UntilThen said:


> That's 300b amp made by Glenn R, the specialist tube amp designer / builder. He is currently making me an OTL amp that runs 6 x 6BL7 or 2/4 6AS7 or 2 x 6336 and is switchable for 6 / 12 or 25 volts. There's a boost switch for 5998 tubes. Driver tubes are a single *SN7 or a pair of Siemens C3G. It will have one Lundahl transformer.
> 
> If the Glenn 300b amp sounds more detail than the WA5, then it must be something because I heard a WA5 source from Yggdrasil at a recent meet and I reckon it's right up there for end game status. I also heard the Susvara driven by the WA33 at the Sydney HiFi show. That's an out of this world sound.



We had the Glenn 300B next to the WA5. It was no contest. Not even close. 
He has sunk a lot more $$'s into that amp since then and it is sounding even better. 
He had the transformers dipped and changed rectification to SS with soft start option (that was a great move).


----------



## Uri Cohen

So I purchased a new 2nd Gen WA6-SE.  The stock power tubes are the 13DE7.  I was planning to get some 6DE7s when one of the tube sellers told me that might be a problem.  If there's no voltage switch, then any six volt Power Tube will burn out quickly.  Is this the case?  I saw the 6DE7 as being good to go with the new 2nd Gen.


----------



## UntilThen

Badas said:


> We had the Glenn 300B next to the WA5. It was no contest. Not even close.
> He has sunk a lot more $$'s into that amp since then and it is sounding even better.
> He had the transformers dipped and changed rectification to SS with soft start option (that was a great move).



Wish I was able to hear those 2 amps side by side. The 300b must be one great sounding amp.

I also went with SS rectification for my OTL amp,  based on feedback by Glenn and a few others.


----------



## Jozurr

Ok I seem to have a problem  and Im not sure if its the tubes or the adapters - Im using the Tung Sol 6C8G tubes with adapters made by @2359glenn . The tubes are perfectly matched. This is on the WA5.

When I first plugged in the tubes, the left side in the headphones was much louder than the right - I thought the tubes are defective/mismatched, however when I swap the tubes (keeping the adapters still in the same place), the sound gets much more balanced, but very slightly tilted to the right (as opposed to a much bigger difference). It's extremely strange. Swapping the adapters has yielded no results. Anyone has any ideas?


----------



## Badas

Jozurr said:


> Ok I seem to have a problem  and Im not sure if its the tubes or the adapters - Im using the Tung Sol 6C8G tubes with adapters made by @2359glenn . The tubes are perfectly matched. This is on the WA5.
> 
> When I first plugged in the tubes, the left side in the headphones was much louder than the right - I thought the tubes are defective/mismatched, however when I swap the tubes (keeping the adapters still in the same place), the sound gets much more balanced, but very slightly tilted to the right (as opposed to a much bigger difference). It's extremely strange. Swapping the adapters has yielded no results. Anyone has any ideas?



Try other tubes. If the issue goes away then the tubes are at fault. 
my understanding is that Woo products have a level match circuit. It might be possible that is failing.


----------



## Jozurr

Badas said:


> Try other tubes. If the issue goes away then the tubes are at fault.
> my understanding is that Woo products have a level match circuit. It might be possible that is failing.



Everythings fine with the 6SN7 tubes that I have  but dont have any other 6C8G tubes to rule out the adapters or tubes


----------



## Jacobal

If anyone wants to sell me their 274b Tak/WE/or something similar, I’d be interested.


----------



## phase0

Jozurr said:


> When I first plugged in the tubes, the left side in the headphones was much louder than the right - I thought the tubes are defective/mismatched, however when I swap the tubes (keeping the adapters still in the same place), the sound gets much more balanced, but very slightly tilted to the right (as opposed to a much bigger difference). It's extremely strange. Swapping the adapters has yielded no results. Anyone has any ideas?



Like Badas said it's probably the tubes. I think the WA5 has some autobias circuit that can correct for some amount of imbalance. You should be able to find a pair of cheap 6c8g for testing (though the shipping wait and a little more spend etc does suck but maybe you can find another good set like National Union). If the amp is fine with 6SN7 then it's probably not the amp, and I doubt that the adapters would be an issue esp with the level of work and reputation of Glenn. That leaves the tubes. All the issues I have encountered with tube rolling so far, the problem is always the tubes. Tube swap should tell you but it's best to test like for like.


----------



## rexhu100

I asked about this in the WA2 thread but got no response. I guess I'll try my luck here. 

What is "pseudo dual power supply"? I see it on WA2 and WA6.


----------



## Csericks

rexhu100 said:


> I asked about this in the WA2 thread but got no response. I guess I'll try my luck here.
> 
> What is "pseudo dual power supply"? I see it on WA2 and WA6.



I believe that this modification that was later incorporated into production by Woo was created by member "jamato8" about 10 or so years ago. If you try to message jamato8 or review discussions from 2007 - 2008 you will likely be able to find what you are looking for.


----------



## joseph69

rexhu100 said:


> I asked about this in the WA2 thread but got no response. I guess I'll try my luck here.
> 
> What is "pseudo dual power supply"? I see it on WA2 and WA6.


I asked the same question about 5yrs ago when I purchased my WA6, and* IIRC* its's a single PS not a true dual PS going into both the L/R channels, in other words 2 into 1 instead of 1 PS per channel.


----------



## Jozurr

What do you guys consider to be the best rectifier tubes for under $500 for the WA5? Im looking for the most musical sounding ones


----------



## Jacobal

Jozurr, spend $150 more on the KA 274b (single) and you’ll get something that easily rivals Taks and WE. A pair would be $1300 and I don’t know if it’s sold individually.


----------



## Jozurr

I meant for a pair not for a single tube. $1300 for rectifiers is a bit much and a pair of WE can be had for under $1K


----------



## Jacobal

A pair of WE for under 1000? Really?????


----------



## Badas

Jacobal said:


> A pair of WE for under 1000? Really?????



It might be those Russian made ones.


----------



## jerick70

Where are you getting WEs for less than $1000.  Inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## Jacobal

Who cares if Russian made or not? As like as it sounds like the original it’s fine with me.


----------



## jerick70

@Badas reading earlier in the thread you mentioned that Glenn's 300b amps sound much better than the WA5.  What headphones and source were you listening with?  I'm thinking about jumping the Woo ship and having Glenn build me an amp.  I just hope he will talk to me...  I asked him about how his 300b compared to the Woo and he never replied....


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> @Badas reading earlier in the thread you mentioned that Glenn's 300b amps sound much better than the WA5.  What headphones and source were you listening with?  I'm thinking about jumping the Woo ship and having Glenn build me an amp.  I just hope he will talk to me...  I asked him about how his 300b compared to the Woo and he never replied....



We used HD800S, LCD-X, HE-6 and Ether Flow Open. 
After a quick listen I concentrated on the Glenn as it was nicer on all HP's. 

I had a listen a few weeks back using the HE1Km2. It was great.


----------



## jerick70

Jacobal said:


> Who cares if Russian made or not? As like as it sounds like the original it’s fine with me.


I have the Russian Genalex Golden Lion 300bs and they aren't too bad for $300 a pair.  I've been cheap on 300b tubes.  Different transducers make a much bigger difference so I've put my money there.


----------



## jerick70

Badas said:


> We used HD800S, LCD-X, HE-6 and Ether Flow Open.
> After a quick listen I concentrated on the Glenn as it was nicer on all HP's.
> 
> I had a listen a few weeks back using the HE1Km2. It was great.


You've peaked my interest.  I really love my WA5, but if I can get more detail out a different 300b amp I may go there......  OK back on topic for me.... I'll move my questions to the Glenn amp thread.


----------



## Jacobal

Glenn amp? I’ve never heard of the brand. Price?


----------



## jerick70

Jacobal said:


> Glenn amp? I’ve never heard of the brand. Price?


2359Glenn here on head-fi makes tube amps.  I don't know what pricing is.  You will need to contact him.

Here is the general thread for his amps https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1121#post-13880395


----------



## Badas

Jacobal said:


> Glenn amp? I’ve never heard of the brand. Price?



Glenn is custom. Price depends on options and layout. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-1121#post-13880395


----------



## Jacobal

What’s the price for the absolute complete ultimate model?


----------



## Badas

Jacobal said:


> What’s the price for the absolute complete ultimate model?



Speak to Glenn.


----------



## Jacobal

If a small company like Donald North Audio can reveal their prices without needing to hide it, there should be no excuses to hide it.


----------



## jerick70

I don't think he is trying to hide the pricing.  Send Glenn a PM and I'm sure he will hook you up.


----------



## Jozurr

Seems like no one uses rectifiers under $500 

Im currently using stock RCA 5r4GY and feel like I can definitely do better.


----------



## Jozurr

Also, sorry I should've been more clear - I was not talking about the 274 tubes of WE being under $1K - but the 422A which are considered some of the best rectifier tubes.


----------



## jerick70

Jozurr said:


> Seems like no one uses rectifiers under $500
> 
> Im currently using stock RCA 5r4GY and feel like I can definitely do better.


I use the Brimar 5Z4GY and they are excellent.  I also use Weber SS rectifiers and they are excellent too.  Both are under $100 for a matched pair.


----------



## Badas

jerick70 said:


> I use the Brimar 5Z4GY and they are excellent.  I also use Weber SS rectifiers and they are excellent too.  Both are under $100 for a matched pair.



Agreed. Both of those give great results. I'm using Brimar 5Z4GY at the moment. Instead of the TAK274B.
Brimar hits 97% of the TAK.


----------



## pippen99

Current prices:  Brimar 5Z4GY- 25 GBP($33.35) plus $8 shipping each. Langrex Ebay store/
                          Ted Weber WU4GB copper cap rectifier- $24.00 plus shipping each (?) Weber website

I have both.  I keep them as backups to the SE 274B.


----------



## jerick70

pippen99 said:


> Current prices:  Brimar 5Z4GY- 25 GBP($33.35) plus $8 shipping each. Langrex Ebay store/
> Ted Weber WU4GB copper cap rectifier- $24.00 plus shipping each (?) Weber website
> 
> I have both.  I keep them as backups to the SE 274B.


The Sophias are very nice tubes.  I think they are my next tube purchase.  I'm going to get the 300b mesh paltes though not the rectifiers.


----------



## phase0

Also +1 for Brimar. I don't own any super expensive rectifier tubes FYI. My most expensive is the Mullard brown base GZ32. I like them as much as the Brimar. Brimar are cheaper so I would just do those to start.


----------



## Jozurr

jerick70 said:


> The Sophias are very nice tubes.  I think they are my next tube purchase.  I'm going to get the 300b mesh paltes though not the rectifiers.



I can sell you my pair of Sophia Mesh plate 274B Rectifiers if youre interested in those.


----------



## Jozurr

Thank you for the Brimar 5Z4GY recommendation - Think Ill jump on it. Thse are direct plug and play replacements yeah?


----------



## jerick70

Jozurr said:


> Thank you for the Brimar 5Z4GY recommendation - Think Ill jump on it. Thse are direct plug and play replacements yeah?


You're welcome.  What amp are you running?


----------



## Jozurr

jerick70 said:


> You're welcome.  What amp are you running?



WA5 LE MK II


----------



## jerick70

Jozurr said:


> WA5 LE MK II


Nice AMP!  Do you have the component upgrades (Not that this matters for tube compatibility)?

Yes the 5Z4GY is a drop in replacement.


----------



## Jozurr

jerick70 said:


> Nice AMP!  Do you have the component upgrades (Not that this matters for tube compatibility)?
> 
> Yes the 5Z4GY is a drop in replacement.



Not yet. I was thinking of getting them done but now I feel Im more tilted towards a Glenn 300B amp...


----------



## jerick70

Jozurr said:


> Not yet. I was thinking of getting them done but now I feel Im more tilted towards a Glenn 300B amp...


That's my conundrum right now too.  I just don't know if I want to go through the whole selling of my WA5 and waiting for the Glenn amp.  I'm so tired of buying and selling audio gear.  The WA5 is an incredible amp.  I'm still very happy with it.  But maybe Glenn will talk me into it.....


----------



## jerick70

FYI, you can check compatibility of any tubes for Woo amps here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml


----------



## Rossliew

Glenn’s 300B will not sound like what one would expect of a typical 300B amp, going from the impressions of those who own it. I’m tempted myself...


----------



## jerick70

Jozurr said:


> I can sell you my pair of Sophia Mesh plate 274B Rectifiers if youre interested in those.


I appreciate the offer.   I'm wanting 300b power tubes though.


----------



## capetownwatches (Nov 30, 2017)

I have been looking for some different drivers for my WA3 and came across these, which I think is a very lucky find.

NOS and closely matched Philips E288CC SQ, Made in Holland, and at a very good price as well.
They test exceptionally well, as can be seen on the boxes.

I am awaiting further photos and confirmation of manufacture date, not that it really matters.
These are bought!

Any opinions or impressions from folks who may have experience with these?


----------



## Jozurr

jerick70 said:


> That's my conundrum right now too.  I just don't know if I want to go through the whole selling of my WA5 and waiting for the Glenn amp.  I'm so tired of buying and selling audio gear.  The WA5 is an incredible amp.  I'm still very happy with it.  But maybe Glenn will talk me into it.....



Im not ready to invest in the glenn amp until I hear it. I'm going to hold off from doing the upgrades on the WA5 as well.


----------



## Kenion (Dec 1, 2017)

Not sure if someone mentioned it in the past but I wonder:
Whats the exact difference between 2nd & 1st gen of the WA6/WA6-SE?
http://wooaudio.com/products/wa6se.html

On the website it simply says "it carries on the legacy", that everything else is unchanged and then on the very end it says "*With this small change..."*

But whats changed? I don't understand whats the actual difference.

Maybe someone could help


----------



## elira

They changed from 6DE7 to 13DE7, so now it uses 13V tubes instead of 6V tubes, maybe for availability. Not sure if there are other changes.


----------



## Kenion

elira said:


> They changed from 6DE7 to 13DE7, so now it uses 13V tubes instead of 6V tubes, maybe for availability. Not sure if there are other changes.


Thanks! That may explain why it says that the sound isnt changed. At least not in theory


----------



## DavidRoss007

Although I am very happy with my current setup, I was wondering how much of an impact different cables would have. I am currently using van den hul mcd 300, which came with a nad power amp I have but don't use anymore. could someone give me some recommendations please?

WA6
DACMAGI


----------



## Jozurr

DavidRoss007 said:


> Although I am very happy with my current setup, I was wondering how much of an impact different cables would have. I am currently using van den hul mcd 300, which came with a nad power amp I have but don't use anymore. could someone give me some recommendations please?
> 
> WA6
> DACMAGI



Upgrading your amp/dac/headphones will almost always result in better changes than cables.


----------



## jerick70

@DavidRoss007 as @Jozurr recommended you will find much better results in upgrading the components in audio your chain over upgrading cables.  I have heard differences in cables but it is a VERY slight difference over upgrading / replacing transducers, amps, sources, source material, ect...


----------



## 2359glenn (Dec 4, 2017)

elira said:


> They changed from 6DE7 to 13DE7, so now it uses 13V tubes instead of 6V tubes, maybe for availability. Not sure if there are other changes.



The 13 volt tubes are oddball so they are cheaper to buy.
May have used up the available 6DE7 stock. The same tube with a different filament voltage.


----------



## Kenion

Previous poster's are right.
If in any case you do want to "ugrapde" your cables I would recommend prioritizing for durability, comfort (e.g. headphone cables) and/or looks.
I would never recommend buying new cables SOLELY to hope for an elevated sound.

For example, I've swapped my HD800's cables as the stock ones kept breaking at the same exact spot and they were very bulky (incl. body noise).
The new ones are custome made, much lighters, more durable and better looking. I'm not sure however if they sound better. But thats an example for a reason to "upgrade" cables

Hope that helps with your decision


----------



## DavidRoss007

Thanks everyone. I'l stick to what I've got. Was originally interested in tube rolling but I'm so happy with the current setup that I just like to read others experience


----------



## Jozurr

jerick70 said:


> @DavidRoss007 as @Jozurr recommended you will find much better results in upgrading the components in audio your chain over upgrading cables.  I have heard differences in cables but it is a VERY slight difference over upgrading / replacing transducers, amps, sources, source material, ect...



The differences in cable are also only worthwhile if your chain is upgraded/transparent enough for them to come through. Muddy waters will never be cleaned by better pipes


----------



## Krutsch

capetownwatches said:


> I have been looking for some different drivers for my WA3 and came across these, which I think is a very lucky find.
> 
> NOS and closely matched Philips E288CC SQ, Made in Holland, and at a very good price as well.
> They test exceptionally well, as can be seen on the boxes.
> ...



Maybe. Sometimes the E288CC tubes are rebranded Siemens tubes.

For example, my early '60s Telefunken E288CC are really Siemens tubes (I was informed that Telefunken never made their own E288CC).

See this link from Tubeworld.

If that's the case, get 'em - mine are one of my favorites and are currently in my own WA3 (although I prefer the Telefunken E188CC, by a small margin, for tone).


----------



## capetownwatches (Dec 5, 2017)

Krutsch said:


> Maybe. Sometimes the E288CC tubes are rebranded Siemens tubes.
> 
> For example, my early '60s Telefunken E288CC are really Siemens tubes (I was informed that Telefunken never made their own E288CC).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the very useful info - if these are in fact rebranded Siemens I surely have no issues with that.

And the best part? I paid around 65 USD for the PAIR... 
There are still bargains to be found if one looks hard and has some luck.

On their way to me as we speak.


----------



## Krutsch

capetownwatches said:


> And the best part? I paid around 65 USD for the PAIR...



Great price... congrats. Enjoy your WA3 with upgraded tubes. The WA3 is a under-appreciated amp, IMO.


----------



## capetownwatches

Krutsch said:


> Great price... congrats. Enjoy your WA3 with upgraded tubes. The WA3 is a under-appreciated amp, IMO.



I got my WA3 about 2 months ago and am completely happy with it thus far - I agree that it doesn't seem to get the respect it deserves.
But so what - you and I know what it's capable of, and that's all that matters.

I'm running a NOS Marconi branded GE 6AS7G (A1834) Brown Base for power and still have the stock EH 6922 in position.
But not for long - I look forward to hearing the difference the new tubes make. That said, the EH are not bad at all.


----------



## Krutsch

capetownwatches said:


> I'm running a *NOS Marconi branded GE 6AS7G (A1834) Brown Base for power* and still have the stock EH 6922 in position.
> But not for long - I look forward to hearing the difference the new tubes make. That said, the EH are not bad at all.



Oh, boo-yah! Great choice! I was going to ask you what you were running for a power tube.

I have a pair of the GEC 6AS7g Brown Base tubes and they are completely sweet sounding.

Dude, you are all set - now, start loosening up the fillings in your mouth


----------



## capetownwatches

Krutsch said:


> Oh, boo-yah! Great choice! I was going to ask you what you were running for a power tube.
> 
> I have a pair of the GEC 6AS7g Brown Base tubes and they are completely sweet sounding.
> 
> Dude, you are all set - now, start loosening up the fillings in your mouth



The WA3 is my first foray into the wonders of tubes and I'm loving it! Steep learning curve since I came into it knowing less than nothing about them, and what fun it has been so far. Very educational along with the awesome sound. Which for me just adds to the enjoyment.

I've picked up a good NOS 50's RCA 6AS7G with the stock JAN 6080WC Sylvania although they are spares while the Marconi is around. Also incoming are a closely matched pair of '81 6N23P-EV Russians picked up for a song.
So I reckon I'm doing OK for tubes as a total noob thus far. I fear this won't be the end of it though! I'll keep on snapping up the really good deals as they come along but not actively looking for the time being. Rather just enjoy what I already have.

Bit concerned about the possible dental repercussions though...


----------



## Krutsch

capetownwatches said:


> ...
> 
> I've picked up a good NOS 50's RCA 6AS7G with the stock JAN 6080WC Sylvania although they are spares while the Marconi is around. Also incoming are a closely* matched pair of '81 6N23P-EV Russians* picked up for a song.
> So I reckon I'm doing OK for tubes as a total noob thus far. I fear this won't be the end of it though! *I'll keep on snapping up the really good deals as they come along* *but not actively looking for the time being. Rather just enjoy what I already have*.
> ...



I have a quad set of 6N23p Single Wire Getter Post, Silver Shield '74 - some on here think these are Holy Grail 6922 drivers. I thought they were OK; your E288CCs will do better, trust me.

I think you are smart to lay off tube shopping, now that you have a great setup. Buying tubes is addicting and, to be honest, most of my collection just sits in a cabinet. Once you find the right tubes, tube-rolling loses its appeal, IMO.

That said, your post has made think about swapping out my WE 421a for the GEC, just to change things up a bit.


----------



## Jozurr (Dec 8, 2017)

Jozurr said:


> Everythings fine with the 6SN7 tubes that I have  but dont have any other 6C8G tubes to rule out the adapters or tubes



the problem in fact was with the tubes, as you gents rightfully pointed out. The seller sent me another tube exactly matched to the pair before and I was able to vet out the tube that was causing the ruckus. Now I have a pair of TS BGRP 6C8G with Glenn's adapters and they sound beautiful in the WA5. I dont think I'd itch to upgrade from these.

Now to order the Brimar 5Z4GY pair to finish my tube upgrades. I'd have the WE 300B/TS BGRP 6C8G/Brimar 5Z4GY

Also, users who have upgraded their WA5, how much of a difference did that make?


----------



## phase0

@Jozurr I'm glad you got that sorted out! Congrats I think those TS are one of the best options in the WA5.


----------



## watchdog507

Jozurr said:


> the problem in fact was with the tubes, as you gents rightfully pointed out. The seller sent me another tube exactly matched to the pair before and I was able to vet out the tube that was causing the ruckus. Now I have a pair of TS BGRP 6C8G with Glenn's adapters and they sound beautiful in the WA5. I dont think I'd itch to upgrade from these.
> 
> Now to order the Brimar 5Z4GY pair to finish my tube upgrades. I'd have the WE 300B/TS BGRP 6C8G/Brimar 5Z4GY
> 
> Also, users who have upgraded their WA5, how much of a difference did that make?



The order I'd make on a Woo WA5 is Driver, Power, Rectifier.  You're covered at the Output end.  My experience is that the rectifiers make a difference on a WA5.  I had the Brimar's from Langrex and my experience was less than satisfying.  I had three Brimar's.  Two for the amp an one as a back up.  Within weeks one tube failed.  Then another did the same after several months.  I moved to an EML 5U4G pair and they were great.  Alway wanting to tinker, I heard about the United 596's.  I sourced a pair and they sound great.  They're built like tanks and have a very long life expectancy as they were US Military spec.  Plus they look cool!  Here is the best rectifier shoot out that I've seen:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## xenithon

Quick question to WA2 owners who still have their shipping box. Could you perhaps measure and let me know the dimensions of the box? Thanks in advance!


----------



## capetownwatches

xenithon said:


> Quick question to WA2 owners who still have their shipping box. Could you perhaps measure and let me know the dimensions of the box? Thanks in advance!



Wow X - I can see you're experienced at this importing gear thing! Already checking on shipping costs - good man!
You will of course let me know what the likely damage is once you have some answers?

If Woo can combine shipping we can possibly split the difference.
Or not, since we live 1600 km apart...


----------



## Lucifigus

xenithon said:


> Quick question to WA2 owners who still have their shipping box. Could you perhaps measure and let me know the dimensions of the box? Thanks in advance!



I measure it to be 16" x 14.5" x 9".  On the bottom of the box, it specifies 408mm x 365mm x 222mm.

Lucifigus


----------



## djd1122

@isquirrel, what are you using now instead of 6SN7 tubes?  



isquirrel said:


> I am going to be selling off most of my rare 6SN7's including TSRP's,11 matched pairs 1942 production. Sylvannia Chrome Domes and Metal bases, Bad Boys, RCA Black Glass and Red Bases. PM if anyone is interested please. No longer using 6SN7's.


----------



## Kenion (Dec 23, 2017)

Got a little problem here:

My WA6-SE arrived but...
There is an audible *external* buzz-sound comming from PSU amp (where the big rectifier tube is located at).

The unit where the other two smaller tubes are is dead-silent.


Whats happening exactly:


Turn on the amp
The „PSU" amp is flashing blue – *buzz noise starts and is loud* (I guess that is completely normal so far)
After a few seconds, the light is flashing constantly blue – *buzz noise fades completely away *(wish it stayed like that)
Just after 3-4 seconds – *buzz noise fades in again is noticable loud and stays like that*
After 1 hour of use and more – *buzz noise is still present and has the same volume like in „4.“*

These are the things I’ve tried so far to find a solution to this problem:


Disconnected all inputs (only the amp itself with power)
Tried another power outlet in the room/house
Tried another power cable
Ejected the rectifier tube, double checked it is completely clean (never touched the pins yet as they are brand new) and put it back in.
Made sure there are no other electric devices nearby
*It sounds like some quite microwave is turned on in the background*

Placing a sound damping material under the unit seems to lower the noise but that shouldn't be a permanent solution as it would block the air flow holes under the unit a little bit...

Any of you guys got a clue?


----------



## joseph69

Try a different rectifier tube.


----------



## Kenion

joseph69 said:


> Try a different rectifier tube.


Hmm that may be a solution but I just bought it new and I dont have any nother tubes.
That and also if you just bought something new and expensive you want it to work properly first before I spend more to tinker with it


----------



## joseph69

Yes, I agree both the PS/rectifier tube should work properly. 
More than likely it's the rectifier tube. I would contact Woo and let then know your what's going on.


----------



## watchdog507

The flashing blue light is correct. The buzz is not.  I had bad tubes that were OEM from WOO on a WA6 also.  One of the tubes was gassy or shorting. They should have never been sent with the amp as testing easily identified the problem.   I would go with a different rectifier.  The amp uses easy to find tubes and many are very reasonable. Here is the list from WOO including whether you need adapter.  You can  steer clear of the adapters as that's one more pain at this point  (Yes or NO indicates adapter necessary):

5U4G * /B No Directly Heated
*51*
274A Yes Directly Heated, a 4-pin to 8-pin adapter is needed.
*52*
274B No Directly Heated
*53*
596 Yes Directly Heated
*54*
5931 No Directly Heated
*55*
53KU No Directly Heated
*56*
5AR4 No Indirectly Heated
*57*
5AS4 No Directly Heated
*58*
5Z4 No Indirectly Heated
*59*
5R4 /GA /GB /GY /GYA /GYB /WGA /WGB No Directly Heated
*60*
5U3C No Directly Heated
*61*
WA22 / WA5 / WA5LE Rectifier 5V4 /G /GA No Directly Heated
*62*
WA6 / WA6SE 5Y3 No Directly Heated
*63*
5W4 / GT No Directly Heated
*64*
5Z3 Yes Directly Heated, a 8-pin to 4-pin adapter is needed.
*65*
6106 No Directly Heated
*66*
83 Yes Directly Heated, a 8-pin to 4-pin adapter is needed.
*67*
GZ30 No Indirectly Heated
*68*
GZ32 No Indirectly Heated
*69*
GZ33 No Indirectly Heated
*70*
GZ34 No Indirectly Heated
*71*
GZ37 No Indirectly Heated
*72*
CV378 No Indirectly Heated
*73*
U52 No Directly Heated
*74*
U54 No Directly Heated
*75*
WE422A No Indirectly Heated


----------



## Kenion (Dec 24, 2017)

Thank you for all the help guys!
I've contacted Woo Audio regarding the buzz-noise comming from the PSU-amp already.

It won't be so easy for me to request a new rectifier tube as I'm living in *Germany* and getting the amp shipped here was already a "gamble" as its nowhere to be sold in Europe.
But I can look for another rectifier tube here until I get a replacement from Woo Audio (in case its the one that is causing all the external noise).

Here are some picutures of the rectifier tube so you can see yourself if its actually a brand new and working one or not:


----------



## MIKELAP

Not hard to find a cheap rectifier. Like the other guys say i would also think it is the rectifier .Every tube i buy i clean the pins with a fine sandpaper it cost nothing and your sure the pins will be clean .Used that method with hundreds of my tubes works for me .I sold an amp not to long ago when the buyer received it one tube was doing what you are describing finally it was the tube that went bad during shipping and it was also a russian tube .It is very dissapointing You buy something new you expect everything to be perfect  .But you will appreciate more when all is well .        Happy Hollidays .


----------



## Kenion

MIKELAP said:


> Not hard to find a cheap rectifier. Like the other guys say i would also think it is the rectifier .Every tube i buy i clean the pins with a fine sandpaper it cost nothing and your sure the pins will be clean .Used that method with hundreds of my tubes works for me .I sold an amp not to long ago when the buyer received it one tube was doing what you are describing finally it was the tube that went bad during shipping and it was also a russian tube .It is very dissapointing You buy something new you expect everything to be perfect  .But you will appreciate more when all is well .        Happy Hollidays .



Thank you Mikelap!
Yes you are right.

So I may going to buy a new rectifier tube while waiting to get a reply from Woo Audio for a possible replacement of the effected tube.
What do you guys think about the Sopha Princess 274B? I appreciate the looks of it.
Is it compatible with my new WA6-SE 2nd gen and what do you think about this offer? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Princess-S...684512?hash=item3d538bee60:g:VuEAAOSwIGJaOJRd

Happy Holidays to you too!


----------



## MIKELAP

Kenion said:


> Thank you Mikelap!
> Yes you are right.
> 
> So I may going to buy a new rectifier tube while waiting to get a reply from Woo Audio for a possible replacement of the effected tube.
> ...


I have a SP 274B in my collection of rectifiers .I guess many have and like this tube its not necessarely the best sounding rectifier of all but it sure glows nice .Shipping cost for this tube is way to much though $36.00 USD to Montreal so i can only imagine the cost to Germany .Beware .This link might help.https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## joseph69

The SE 274B is way overpriced from Woo, but for half the price, maybe?
Here is an inexpensive rectifier tube (Brimar 5Z4GY) from Langrex Tubes which most everyone agrees its price/performance ratio is well worth the cost (*if it's compatible with the newer Woo amps?) *I use it with my older production WA6.


----------



## donato

Kenion said:


> Thank you for all the help guys!
> I've contacted Woo Audio regarding the buzz-noise comming from the PSU-amp already.
> 
> It won't be so easy for me to request a new rectifier tube as I'm living in *Germany* and getting the amp shipped here was already a "gamble" as its nowhere to be sold in Europe.
> ...



Check out dubstep girl's great thread on rectifier tubes if you haven't already - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## watchdog507

Most of the tubes on the list that I posted are readily available.  You should be able to find 5U4G's at many dealers that stock tubes.


----------



## Kenion

joseph69 said:


> The SE 274B is way overpriced from Woo, but for half the price, maybe?
> Here is an inexpensive rectifier tube (Brimar 5Z4GY) from Langrex Tubes which most everyone agrees its price/performance ratio is well worth the cost (*if it's compatible with the newer Woo amps?) *I use it with my older production WA6.



Thank you everyone for helping me out to find a replacement rectifier tube for my "faulty" stock one.

Joseph69, the *Brimar 5Z4GY* looks like a good deal! I wish I knew if its *compatible with the 2nd gen WA6-SE :/*


----------



## joseph69

Kenion said:


> Joseph69, the *Brimar 5Z4GY* looks like a good deal! I wish I knew if its *compatible with the 2nd gen WA6-SE :/*


It is compatable.


----------



## Kenion

joseph69 said:


> It is compatable.


Thank you Joseph69!
I may going to order one now.
The external buzz-noise is indeed anoying however the sound is fine.
Lets see how another rectifier is going to work out


----------



## MIKELAP

Kenion said:


> Thank you Joseph69!
> I may going to order one now.
> The external buzz-noise is indeed anoying however the sound is fine.
> Lets see how another rectifier is going to work out


I would not use the amp with that tube if the problem is the tube just my 2 cents .I also have a few Brimar 5Z4G and they are very well regarded here .


----------



## Kenion

MIKELAP said:


> I would not use the amp with that tube if the problem is the tube just my 2 cents .I also have a few Brimar 5Z4G and they are very well regarded here .


Thank you for your suggestion MIKELAP. 
Which other rectifier tube for my 2nd gen would you then recommend?


----------



## MIKELAP

Kenion said:


> Thank you for your suggestion MIKELAP.
> Which other rectifier tube for my 2nd gen would you then recommend?


 If you go on the Woo site and check out the WA6SE it looks like it uses the same rectifiers i would use in my WA22 The rectifier i use the most is the 596 with adapter but you need to explore this for yourself finding your favorite,because as they say YMMV i explored plenty having 38 different rectifiers lol. So there's no time to lose GET SET GOOOOOOOOOO!!!


----------



## Jacobal

Hey guys, I’ve given up on tubes. Too much headache. I’ll get myself a Chord Dave lol


----------



## Badas

Kenion said:


> Thank you Joseph69!
> I may going to order one now.
> The external buzz-noise is indeed anoying however the sound is fine.
> Lets see how another rectifier is going to work out



Brimar is great. I've recently gone back to it and really enjoying it.

Regarding buzz. Check that no signal cable is near or on a power cord. 
I've experienced it once before. A transformer microwave buzz and I just
moved a signal cable away from a power and it fixed it. You can test
while the amp is on.


----------



## joseph69

Badas said:


> Brimar is great. I've recently gone back to it and really enjoying it.


You're the reason I purchased them way back!


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> You're the reason I purchased them way back!



I know. A bad influence. 
I liked Brimar so much i purchased 16 of them.
I actually think I like the Brimar more than the TAK274B. That is really saying something. 
I switch between the two.


----------



## Kenion

Badas said:


> Brimar is great. I've recently gone back to it and really enjoying it.
> 
> Regarding buzz. Check that no signal cable is near or on a power cord.
> I've experienced it once before. A transformer microwave buzz and I just
> ...



Thanks for the hint! Im going to test that right now. 
I did however test it already in a completely diffent room where there is no electronic device at all nearby - simply the amp itself and yet it has the some buzz.
I got damping material underneath the amp right now (some sort of foam) which makes the noise somewhat bearable but still audible from close.
*It shoudnt be a permanent solution though*


----------



## Badas

Kenion said:


> Thanks for the hint! Im going to test that right now.
> I did however test it already in a completely diffent room where there is no electronic device at all nearby - simply the amp itself and yet it has the some buzz.
> I got damping material underneath the amp right now (some sort of foam) which makes the noise somewhat bearable but still audible from close.
> *It shoudnt be a permanent solution though*



With your amp turned off and unplugged. 
Unscrew your transformer lid and take a look inside.
See if there is any metal or wire left loose inside. 
If there is remove and retest.

If this doesn't work then it is definitely the rectifier. 
I'm just working other things it could be.


----------



## Kenion

Badas said:


> With your amp turned off and unplugged.
> Unscrew your transformer lid and take a look inside.
> See if there is any metal or wire left loose inside.
> If there is remove and retest.
> ...



Thank you Badas.
I may consider it but I may also wait for Mike to reply about my case and perhaps till I got a replacement rectifier tube.
Despite I don't think I have the right screw driver for the screws being used here. :/


----------



## ajreynol

Hi guys, quick question. I'm considering a WA6-SE and the WA22.

I'm looking to drive my Audeze LCD-4's to as close to their potential as my $2k or so budget can reach. I read over 2 separate official blog posts from Audeze on this subject. One post recommended the 22 while the other post recommended the 6SE. So I figured I should come to the place where all the owners hang out for a second opinion. I enjoy the tube experience in general, having been using a tube amp as my daily driver for the last few years. My tubes have not given me any issue with 6-8 hours of usage every day since. I'd like to continue that sort of longevity in a tube amp and its tubes if I pick up either Woo. I'd like to know if that's realistic. My current tube amp (Schiit Lyr 2) only has the 2 tubes, where the 6SE and 22 have double or triple the number of tubes to account for, respectively. My hope here is to get an amp that can provide the best power and performance of the two...and to do so without a future that includes having to spend much time micromanaging tubes. I'm not a tube roller, and only ever got 1 additional set of tubes for my Lyr 2 in the years I've owned it. Not something I want to get into as a hobby. Am I in the right place in looking at these two Woo amps? Or should I focus on a solid state instead?

For what it's worth, my music preferences are what I would describe as music well-served by amps that improve on their inherent "richness" of the music. Jazz, pop, electronic, R&B, hip-hop. Hence my attraction to another tube amp. I'm trying to finalize my list of options which already has the Wells Milo (solid state), Ragnarok (solid state) and iCAN Pro (hybrid) on it. Oh and my DAC is a pure DAC (not a +amp) Chord 2Qute, which is only RCA out. Any direction would be welcome. 

Note: I do not have any interest in changing my DAC, so whatever amp is chosen will be fed by an unbalanced RCA coming from the 2Qute and will need to perform well in that configuration. (I know some amps seem to be strongly recommended with balanced in to balanced out setup, so I feel I should make that clear that will not be an option for me if it affects any recommendations)

Thanks in advance for any thoughts that could help!


----------



## reeltime

ajreynol said:


> Hi guys, quick question. I'm considering a WA6-SE and the WA22.



If you can afford the WA22, get it. It's a much better amp in every way.


----------



## joseph69

I've been considering a new WA22 as well because it's fully balanced and I'm already set up for it with my current gear.


----------



## Kenion

ajreynol said:


> Hi guys, quick question. I'm considering a WA6-SE and the WA22.
> 
> I'm looking to drive my Audeze LCD-4's to as close to their potential as my $2k or so budget can reach. I read over 2 separate official blog posts from Audeze on this subject. One post recommended the 22 while the other post recommended the 6SE. So I figured I should come to the place where all the owners hang out for a second opinion. I enjoy the tube experience in general, having been using a tube amp as my daily driver for the last few years. My tubes have not given me any issue with 6-8 hours of usage every day since. I'd like to continue that sort of longevity in a tube amp and its tubes if I pick up either Woo. I'd like to know if that's realistic. My current tube amp (Schiit Lyr 2) only has the 2 tubes, where the 6SE and 22 have double or triple the number of tubes to account for, respectively. My hope here is to get an amp that can provide the best power and performance of the two...and to do so without a future that includes having to spend much time micromanaging tubes. I'm not a tube roller, and only ever got 1 additional set of tubes for my Lyr 2 in the years I've owned it. Not something I want to get into as a hobby. Am I in the right place in looking at these two Woo amps? Or should I focus on a solid state instead?
> 
> ...



You can also check out this chart for some comparision between the two. Its from WooAudio - unless you haven't seen it yet.
http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## ajreynol

Thanks for the insight and the chart, guys! Focusing on the WA22 as my tube option. Now to decide between the WA22, Milo, iCan Pro, and Ragnarok.

:-/


----------



## pippen99

There is a dedicated WA22 thread that split from this one that is now approaching 350 posts.  I have not kept up with that thread but I have read most if not all of this thread.  From what I remember the general consensus is that the WA22 is rather ordinary without a spending a tidy sum on upgraded tubes.  I believe that some have spent near the price of the amp on tubes and that the WA22 can be made to sing gloriously with the right tubes.  Search the posts by Badas as he seems to be the resident expert on the WA22.  I have never heard a WA22 so I am only relating the sense I get from what I have read here.  Also I am not hating on Woo as I own a near maxed WA5.  Of your alternatives I was impressed by the Milo.  Another tube alternative would be the AmpsandSound amplifiers particularly for me the LeeLoo.  Good luck in your search!


----------



## Badas

I'm not sure a WA22 will have the power to drive a LCD-4.
I do find dynamic drivers work better than Planar on my WA22.
Planar fulls apart a bit. 
I've kind of formed the opinion that you really need a 300B amp to drive Planar properly.
I've heard great things from 300B and Planar.


----------



## BuddhaBruce

I figure this is the best place to ask... I only own SS amps and was looking into getting into tubes.

One that asethetically catches my eye is the Wa7 fireflies with the tube power supply. Can you guys help in describing it's sound characteristics?

I'll most likely be driving my Aeon Flow Opens and Klipsch HP-3 with them, along with andromedas if possible.

Would these make 'good pairings'? How does the wa7 compare to say the Schiit Lyr2 or Valhalla?

Thanks guys


----------



## ajreynol

Badas said:


> I'm not sure a WA22 will have the power to drive a LCD-4.
> I do find dynamic drivers work better than Planar on my WA22.
> Planar fulls apart a bit.
> I've kind of formed the opinion that you really need a 300B amp to drive Planar properly.
> I've heard great things from 300B and Planar.


It appears you're correct. After speaking with some Woo reps, I'm now looking at the WA5-LE for my LCD-4's. 

Just not sure I have the space on my work desk for something that large.

Given the normal asking price, I'm looking at a used v1 WA5-LE with new tubes and a 1 year warranty. 

Is a v1 WA5-LE with new, stock tubes good enough, or will I need to immediately look at tube upgrades? Is there anything I should be worried about with it not being a v2?


----------



## phase0

Stock WA5 is decent, but it can scale nicely if you get some good tubes for it. If you go this route you'll eventually want to try some new tubes or you'll never reach 100% of what the WA5 is capable of. It is rather big too.


----------



## pippen99

I have a v1 WA5 driving my LCD4s.  The only keeper among the stock tubes might be the rectifier tubes and they are the easiest and cheapest to upgrade.  You can get a pair of Brimars such as is in Phase0's signature for about $60 or a pair of Weber WU4GB solid state rectifiers for about $50.  The power and drive tubes are where the money starts piling up.  To get somewhere near the potential of the WA5 expect at least 800-1000 dollars.  However that is where the big payoff in SQ is found.  Space is a problem.  The WA5 is nearly 9 inches tall for each unit.  I had trouble finding a rack where the 2nd shelf was as tall as the first shelf.  Remember, if memory serves, the units are 39 and 30 lbs respectively.  Also the v1 is strictly single ended unless you have something incredibly hard to drive.  When I talked to the Woo rep he told me never plug anything in to the balanced plug except the K1000 as marked or possibly an HE6.  If your headphones have balanced cables you will need to purchase an XLR to 1/4 adapter.

I love my WA5.  The only way I would sell it is for a down payment on a WA33.  I think I will go listen to it now.


----------



## reeltime

ajreynol said:


> Is a v1 WA5-LE with new, stock tubes good enough, or will I need to immediately look at tube upgrades? Is there anything I should be worried about with it not being a v2?



I’ve had both. The V2 is just a better version of the V1 with better control. It has a little more power as I recall- maybe 8W vs 5W? I may be thinking of the WA-5 speaker output. 

Tubes are everything in this amp. Try to at least step up to EML tubes (300b and 5U4G). They resell well and higher end tubes are incrimentally better, not revolutionary. The GZ-34 metal base is still one of my favorite rectifiers. The 596 is great too, but you need adapters. The Takatsukis will cost you more than the amp. 

Congrats! It’s a great amp.


----------



## ajreynol

reeltime said:


> I’ve had both. The V2 is just a better version of the V1 with better control. It has a little more power as I recall- maybe 8W vs 5W? I may be thinking of the WA-5 speaker output.
> 
> Tubes are everything in this amp. Try to at least step up to EML tubes (300b and 5U4G). They resell well and higher end tubes are incrimentally better, not revolutionary. The GZ-34 metal base is still one of my favorite rectifiers. The 596 is great too, but you need adapters. The Takatsukis will cost you more than the amp.
> 
> Congrats! It’s a great amp.


Understood. In that case, I think I'll belay my Woo purchase until sometime in 2018. If I'm reading correctly, the EML step up is going to be in the $700-$1000 range on top of the amp which isn't something I'm willing to do right now. My budget is firm here, so I'd rather come back to the amp when I can get it AND the right tubes all at once than be only marginally satisfied for the next several months. 

So I'll probably get the Violectirc V281 or iCAN Pro for now, as I want/need a good solid state amp anyway. That's fine, really. I will be back, though. Maybe in the summer or so. Until then, thanks to all of you for the feedback. I've bookmarked all of it so that when the time comes, I'll know what to buy and for how much. 

Cheers, all and happy listening!


----------



## Krutsch

Tube rolling story... I've been going through an analog phase for the past 6 months. By 'phase', I mean back to analog tape.

I'd been listening to a bunch of stuff and had this realization that everything sounds 'dark' or 'veiled'. So, I swapped to some different 'phones and... not much difference. Hmmm.... must be an issue with the tape, or the deck, or...?

Then I remembered that I'd recently switched out the tubes on my WA3 after some posts about the WA3. I swapped out my Western Electric 421a for a GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base", and I've been running this for a while (I'd also changed the driver tubes to a Siemens E288cc).

The GEC is *very* syrupy; with a clean digital source it's a nice, sort-of analog sound, but with vinyl/tape it's too much.


----------



## musicman59

ajreynol said:


> It appears you're correct. After speaking with some Woo reps, I'm now looking at the WA5-LE for my LCD-4's.
> 
> Just not sure I have the space on my work desk for something that large.
> 
> ...


They only headphones that the v1 will struggle a little bit to drive to its potential is the HE-6 or something similar in efficiency so around 98% of the headphones will be just fine.
My recommendation is to invest in at least in a pair of EML 300B Mesh and a pair of 6F8G drivers with adapters.


----------



## King CATalyst

Is the WA2 a good match for hd800s and lcd3f? I was looking at getting a decware csp3 bc I heard it's a good amp for the price but it's so damn hideous and all of the inputs are on the top.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Jan 5, 2018)

hey guys
i just purchased a matched pair of rca6de7s from ebay and when i installed them in my woo audio 6 last night to my surprise
there was a significant hum coming from the left channel , i took them out cleaned the pins swapped them over but there is no change
in the hum only that it has moved from the left channel to the right .
i changed the tubes and the hum is no longer there so i know the amp is not responsible for the hum.
i contacted the seller on ebay and he is telling me that tubes do not hum and they was tested before hand .
does anyone share this problem with the rca 6de7 tubes with the woo audio 6.
just to add the woo audio 6 is brand new and all my other tubes "no noise or hum"
Plus these rca 6de7s get a lot hotter and brighter than any other tubes I own .

cheers guys


----------



## joseph69 (Jan 5, 2018)

I have the WA6 (circa '13) and about 3-4 pairs of 6FD7's and none of them make noise at all.
Contact the seller again and explain you don't want to go through eBay/PayPal, but would rather settle the matter between yourselves. I always try to settle any matters this way before getting anyone else involved and 99% of the time they're settled if you're dealing with a reputable/reasonable seller.
If he doesn't agree to accept your return, or replace your bad tube/s, then (and only then) I would contact both eBay/PayPal and open a case.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

Thank you for the advise will do that ASAP it’s just annoying because I waited over 2 weeks
For these tubes plus they sound amazing even tho one of them is faulty , you can only hear the hum 
When the track ends or any quiet passages in the song “ bloody annoying or what “ .


----------



## joseph69

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> Thank you for the advise will do that ASAP it’s just annoying because I waited over 2 weeks For these tubes plus they sound amazing even tho one of them is faulty , you can only hear the hum
> When the track ends or any quiet passages in the song “ bloody annoying or what “ .


Yes, most annoying. I've had bad tubes before, so I'm familiar with the hum you're talking about. If Woo stills has nay 6FD7's I would highly recommend buying them. I don't usually buy tubes from Woo, but I purchased all of my 6FD7's through Woo because I couldn't find them anywhere else at the time, and they're all fine. 
You'll pay a bit more (if they even have them) but you'll get good tubes.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

joseph69 said:


> Yes, most annoying. I've had bad tubes before, so I'm familiar with the hum you're talking about. If Woo stills has nay 6FD7's I would highly recommend buying them. I don't usually buy tubes from Woo, but I purchased all of my 6FD7's through Woo because I couldn't find them anywhere else at the time, and they're all fine.
> You'll pay a bit more (if they even have them) but you'll get good tubes.


thanks for the advise you cant really go wrong with jack great customer service but custom fees kill me every time , not so bad on the tubes tho .
the guy i purchased the tubes from asked me if the rca 6de7s was suitable for the woo audio 6 which i know they are , they will try anything lol
as for the 6fd7s you mentioned are they the rca type or the sylvania type tube.


----------



## joseph69 (Jan 6, 2018)

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> as for the 6fd7s you mentioned are they the rca type or the sylvania type tube.


I have both RCA & Westinghouse 6FD7's from Woo. I've only tested the Westinghouse to make sure they were good and that was it. I'm using the RCA because I had received them first and there was some time between my next purchases, so I figured I'd use them until they're no good anymore. They didn't have any RCA left at the time of my next purchase so I received the Westinghouse.

EDIT; The Westinghouse could be re-branded? Not sure, and I really wasn't concerned. Did you inquire with Woo to see if they have any left?


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Jan 7, 2018)

I had a message back from the seller of the faulty 6de7 tube that has the hum and this was his response.
seller
*This must be an older unit that still uses 6DE7 tubes. All of them that I can find use 2 13DE7 tubes. I would say you need to raise the control grid voltage on your amp. Have you tried running this tube on one channel without the other tube installed? This would increase the grid voltage if it is to low and the hum may be gone. Then you will know it's to low. If it is to high you can find out by if you have the amp running and unplug it while listening for the hum. The grid voltage will drop off quickly and the hum will go away very fast but the amp will continue to play while the capacitors drain and the filament cools. Anyway you look at it one tube is likely drawing more grid current and dropping the grid voltage below what that tube will run at. I didn't relies the this was a sale through the E-Bay global shipping program. I have another tube here but I don't know how to get it to you. I have to contact E-Bay to see how this works. That's why I state in my ads that I don't recommend buying internationally.

me
Does this make any sense to you the 2nd gen woo audio 6 does accept the 6de7s don't they or have I been wrong from the beginning? The compatibility sheet on woo website has them on there.  As for the 6fd7s I have not contacted woo yet but will do that as soon as I sort this mess out .*


----------



## joseph69 (Jan 7, 2018)

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> This must be an older unit that still uses 6DE7 tubes. All of them that I can find use 2 13DE7 tubes.


 Check this out for the differences between the 6/10/13DE7 tubes.
I'd ask Woo rather than relying on their chart. I do believe there was some misleading info on the older chart.

EDIT: After confirming with Woo that the 6FD7 is a compatible tube for the newer WA6, I would direct the seller to the their tube chart to show him it's compatible.


----------



## JLoud

Just picked up a WA5LEv2 and was wondering if anyone had some recommendations for tubes. I listen to all kinds of music. I have solid state amps and really prefer the bigger sound stage of tubes.  Also something that takes the edge of the treble.  My current headphones I'm using with the Woo are LCD-4 and Utopia.  Price isn't my primary concern but would appreciate suggestions at different price points and comparisons.  Don't want to throw money away needlessly.  Some of these tubes are too expensive to blindly try without  some idea of their character.


----------



## reeltime

JLoud said:


> Just picked up a WA5LEv2 and was wondering if anyone had some recommendations for tubes. I listen to all kinds of music. I have solid state amps and really prefer the bigger sound stage of tubes.  Also something that takes the edge of the treble.  My current headphones I'm using with the Woo are LCD-4 and Utopia.  Price isn't my primary concern but would appreciate suggestions at different price points and comparisons.  Don't want to throw money away needlessly.  Some of these tubes are too expensive to blindly try without  some idea of their character.



Lots of suggestions buried in these pages. I would try to swing at the least the EML 300B and 5U4G Mesh. In my opinion, that's the price level where things really get interesting sound-wise. Other rectifiers: GZ-34 metal base and 596 (these need adapters). Tung-Sol 6SN7 round plate are the gold standard drivers. There are many good driver options for less. But avoid the CV-181. They have too much grain. 300B-- Again, EML is always my starting point. Elrog makes a good one-- hope they got the reliability thing down. Takatsukis are the top-tier in both 300B and rectifier with a price tag to match-- oh there is that Western Electric 300B that I've never heard-- NOS can run up to $10,000.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

Is anyone running the RCA 6DE7 s on the new woo audio wa6 2nd gen 2017 with no modification.
Apparently they are not compatible any more ?.


----------



## JLoud

Anyone purchase tubes from Best300B.com? They seem to have pretty good prices. Euro based. Also thoughts on KR audio vs Emission labs. Preference for rectifiers:274B or 5u4g?


----------



## Saleh84

Hi everyone,

I just bought a WA5 v2, simply awesome!!
 just got a pair of sophia royal princess 300bs and a pair of sophia 274b mesh as an upgrade - highly recommended. sounds tubey/spacious but with lots of details/extension, tight base wish i could describe the sound better but I'm not an expert with audiophile terms . they are a bit pricey but i wanted to get one of the best upgrade tubes rather than keep rolling, at least for now.

however this purchase means that my beloved WA22 (black) has to go. its in a perfect condition, all stock tubes with woo suggested upgrade tubes (sophia 274b and a pair of 7236). all tubes have barely 500 hours on them. 
I live in Dubai, UAE but I'm willing to ship internationally, please PM me if of interest to discuss price/shipping/photos or videos and any other questions you might be having 

Saleh


----------



## elira

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> Is anyone running the RCA 6DE7 s on the new woo audio wa6 2nd gen 2017 with no modification.
> Apparently they are not compatible any more ?.



I asked and those tubes are not compatible with the 2nd gen. The 2nd gen uses 13V tubes and the 6DE7 are 6V tubes.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Jan 12, 2018)

Thanks for that I have been a bit peed of with the scetchy information I have been receiving from woo audio lately I asked what tubes are compatible with the woo 6 and the reply was there is a few that are compatible with the woo6 but does not mean we recommend? I can not seem to get a straight answer from Mike at woo ,
As for the compatibility list on the manual why is there so many tubes on there if the only ones that he recommends is the 13de7s  and the 13em7s , he sent me the link for the site and that's all they have ? I'm so confused with the whole thing what does he mean by we do not recommend , so why have them listed? . dont you guys think the compatibility list should be updated for the new 2nd gen .
i purchased 6de7 tubes only because it was listed on the site , that was a waste of money .

Cheers guys


----------



## joseph69

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> Thanks for that I have been a bit peed of with the scetchy information I have been receiving from woo audio lately I asked what tubes are compatible with the woo 6 and the reply was there is a few that are compatible with the woo6 but does not mean we recommend? I can not seem to get a straight answer from Mike at woo ,
> As for the compatibility list on the manual why is there so many tubes on there if the only ones that he recommends is the 13de7s  and the 13em7s , he sent me the link for the site and that's all they have ? I'm so confused with the whole thing what does he mean by we do not recommend , so why have them listed? . dont you guys think the compatibility list should be updated for the new 2nd gen .
> i purchased 6de7 tubes only because it was listed on the site , that was a waste of money .
> 
> Cheers guys


Sorry for your unfortunate experience. 
As I mentioned, the tube chart/s that I'm familiar with for my older WA6 were also unreliable.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

guys 
what driver/power tubes would you recommend for the wa6 2nd gen .
lots of the tubes for the 1st gen wa6 are not compatible any more ?

thanks


----------



## joseph69

Is there a Woo tube compatibility chart for the 2nd generation WA6 and whatever other models are now 2nd generation?
If so, could someone please post the link? I can't seem to find it, and all I have is this chart from when I purchased my WA6 +/- 5yrs ago.
Thanks.


----------



## abvolt

This is the latest I have dated June 28,2017 -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Zap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#


----------



## joseph69

abvolt said:


> This is the latest I have dated June 28,2017 -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Zap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#


Thank you. Just wanted to take a look.


----------



## Rengaw

Anyone try pairing the WA5 with ifi's iESL energiser?


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Jan 25, 2018)

this is the new updated tube compatibility list for the wa6 2nd gen if anyone is interested.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html .

link to new woo audio website

passcode 4321   https://goo.gl/VSFceL


----------



## joseph69 (Jan 25, 2018)

.


----------



## joseph69

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> this is the new updated tube compatibility list for the wa6 2nd gen if anyone is interested.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html .
> 
> link to new woo audio website
> ...


Thanks for the new links.


----------



## John Aiello

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> guys
> what driver/power tubes would you recommend for the wa6 2nd gen .
> lots of the tubes for the 1st gen wa6 are not compatible any more ?
> 
> thanks


I have the WA6-SE V2.  I bought it at the end of 2017 and have run it in about 200 hours.  I tried the stock tubes and also bought the 13EM7 tubes with the adapters which are nice but the magic for me seems to happen with a pair of NOS Sylvania 13DE7 tubes.  For the rectifier I bought the Sophia 274B.  The amp is awesome.  Best headphone amp I have ever owned.


----------



## Krutsch

http://hifipig.com/western-electric-300b-valves-back-in-production-this-year/


----------



## pippen99 (Jan 26, 2018)

Is there a disconnect on the pricing?  A single price is $599.  Times two is $1198 yet the article states a matched pair are $1299.  Is WE going to charge $101 to match tubes?


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Jan 26, 2018)

I


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

John Aiello said:


> I have the WA6-SE V2.  I bought it at the end of 2017 and have run it in about 200 hours.  I tried the stock tubes and also bought the 13EM7 tubes with the adapters which are nice but the magic for me seems to happen with a pair of NOS Sylvania 13DE7 tubes.  For the rectifier I bought the Sophia 274B.  The amp is awesome.  Best headphone amp I have ever owned.


I also have the same combination of tube on my woo 6 I tried the 13em7 s for a while and your right the 13de7 has a much more relaxing sound
The 13em7 sounds more open but the 13de7 has more emotion .
I just purchased the 12sx7s and the 12sn7s heard these tubes are an amazing combo with the Sophia princess.

Happy rolling


----------



## Matro5

John Aiello said:


> I have the WA6-SE V2.  I bought it at the end of 2017 and have run it in about 200 hours.  I tried the stock tubes and also bought the 13EM7 tubes with the adapters which are nice but the magic for me seems to happen with a pair of NOS Sylvania 13DE7 tubes.  For the rectifier I bought the Sophia 274B.  The amp is awesome.  Best headphone amp I have ever owned.



Could you offer any impressions of the WA6-SE with your Focal Clears? I've got a pair that i'm really enjoying, and considering my Woo options for getting the most out of them, so naturally your amp is on my radar. Any insight would be much appreciated - thanks!


----------



## John Aiello

pippen99 said:


> Is there a disconnect on the pricing?  A single price is $599.  Times two is $1198 yet the article states a matched pair are $1299.  Is WE going to charge $101 to match tubes?


No sure which article you are referring to.  The WA6-SE goes for $1190 in the US.


----------



## pippen99

Commenting on WE 300B upcoming pricing.


----------



## JohanGao

guys i have a question, sory if the question sound a little silly..
I have wa33 with custom speaker out and want to use it as preamp for my integrated amp cambridge audio azur 651A, but I don't know how to set wa33 as preamp.
Should I made a custom cable with banana plug to rca? and insert the banana plug to wa33 speaker out then connect to azur rca input?


----------



## jerick70

JohanGao said:


> guys i have a question, sory if the question sound a little silly..
> I have wa33 with custom speaker out and want to use it as preamp for my integrated amp cambridge audio azur 651A, but I don't know how to set wa33 as preamp.
> Should I made a custom cable with banana plug to rca? and insert the banana plug to wa33 speaker out then connect to azur rca input?


You would use the XLR preamp outputs on the WA33 to connect to your amp. But your integrated amp doesn't have XLR inputs so that won't work. You would have to get your WA33 modded by Woo or get a new amp.


----------



## Csericks

JohanGao said:


> guys i have a question, sory if the question sound a little silly..
> I have wa33 with custom speaker out and want to use it as preamp for my integrated amp cambridge audio azur 651A, but I don't know how to set wa33 as preamp.
> Should I made a custom cable with banana plug to rca? and insert the banana plug to wa33 speaker out then connect to azur rca input?


Have you called or emailed Woo Audio to ask?


----------



## John Aiello

Matro5 said:


> Could you offer any impressions of the WA6-SE with your Focal Clears? I've got a pair that i'm really enjoying, and considering my Woo options for getting the most out of them, so naturally your amp is on my radar. Any insight would be much appreciated - thanks!



I have only had the Clear for about a week and a half.  I have had them on break in since I received them.  After about 20 hours they sounded a bit thin but now that they have 120 hours on them they are beginning to sound like I thought that they might.  I need another week to really get them broken in before I do any critical listening.  Focal recommends 200 hours on these.  I will post my impressions when done.


----------



## John Aiello

JohanGao said:


> guys i have a question, sory if the question sound a little silly..
> I have wa33 with custom speaker out and want to use it as preamp for my integrated amp cambridge audio azur 651A, but I don't know how to set wa33 as preamp.
> Should I made a custom cable with banana plug to rca? and insert the banana plug to wa33 speaker out then connect to azur rca input?



Cardas makes XLR to RCA connectors.  I use them all the time.  You would use the XLR to RCA to convert the balanced output to an RCA output to feed your Azur.  Don't do that speaker thing.  It's not the way to go.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Jan 29, 2018)

Does anyone own the KR AUDIO 274b rectifier for the wa6 2nd gen and how does it compare to the Sophia 274b .
Thanks guys


----------



## OldSkool

pippen99 said:


> Is there a disconnect on the pricing?  A single price is $599.  Times two is $1198 yet the article states a matched pair are $1299.  Is WE going to charge $101 to match tubes?



This seems to be a really good question. Maybe they meant $1199 per matched pair?


----------



## baiyy1986

Anyone has both liquid carbon and WA6se?
I have WA6se and thinking about get  an LCX from Massdrop because of the balanced output.
Wondering wether that is some kind of waste money.


----------



## Odin412

baiyy1986 said:


> Anyone has both liquid carbon and WA6se?
> I have WA6se and thinking about get  an LCX from Massdrop because of the balanced output.
> Wondering wether that is some kind of waste money.



I have a WA6 (not SE) and a Liquid Carbon and I like both amps. The balanced output on the LC makes a noticeable difference on some headphones, and a small difference on others - it's hard to predict without trying. I enjoy some planar magnetic headphones (e.g. Audeze LCD-2 and ZMF Omni) using the balanced output. On other headphones (e.g. Beyerdynamic T1 and MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed) I prefer the single-ended output. YMMV, of course.


----------



## baiyy1986

Odin412 said:


> I have a WA6 (not SE) and a Liquid Carbon and I like both amps. The balanced output on the LC makes a noticeable difference on some headphones, and a small difference on others - it's hard to predict without trying. I enjoy some planar magnetic headphones (e.g. Audeze LCD-2 and ZMF Omni) using the balanced output. On other headphones (e.g. Beyerdynamic T1 and MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed) I prefer the single-ended output. YMMV, of course.


Thanks, I think I got your point, I really like the combination of both TH900 and HD800 with WA6se, but since I have the balance cable, I really want to try some good amp with balanced output.
So curious about the difference between SE and Bal.


----------



## watchdog507

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> Does anyone own the KR AUDIO 274b rectifier for the wa6 2nd gen and how does it compare to the Sophia 274b .
> Thanks guys


Although I don't own KR 274B's I do own some KR variants of 300b's.  I also own EML's.  I like the KR sound marginally better than EML and definitely better than Sophia's.  I sold off all of my Sophia's as I preferred the Czech tubes to my ears.  On another note.  274b's are rectifiers.  They do have an impact on sound but it is less than good driver and power tubes.


----------



## SeeHear

pippen99 said:


> Is there a disconnect on the pricing?  A single price is $599.  Times two is $1198 yet the article states a matched pair are $1299.  Is WE going to charge $101 to match tubes?



That's entirely possible. Jack just made me pay $70 to simply test some tubes that I gave them when dropping off my amp so they could fix their own screwup from the last time they "fixed"
my WA2. That's right, they had my amp to fix their screw-up and then, after they had it, told me they were charging me 70 dollars to "give it a clean bill of health - after working on it - and checking 8 tubes. To top it all off, one of the tubes he pronounced "good," is actually noisy.  My recommendation is to watch them very closely and stipulate everything in writing prior to sending them a dime or your equipment.


----------



## joseph69

I sent my WA6 to Woo to have the transformer checked out, and it cost me $70.00 which was fine with me. The thing that wasn't fine with me, was I sent it USPS fully insured for its declared value from Staten Island, NY to Queens, NY. Woo wanted to charge almost double to ship it back to me?

I was so disgusted knowing they get much better shipping rate due to the quantity they move, I wrote them and let them know about it. 
In the end they charged me the same amount it cost me to ship it to them. Unbelievable!


----------



## SeeHear

I dropped mine off and picked it up - I don't want to know what he would have tried to charge for shipping.  What bothered me wasn't the amount of money - but that he charged me at all.  It was in because they screwed up the last time they had it. Yeah, they checked out my tubes - but I know how to operate a tube tester; it's not terribly labor intensive. Given that my amp has had to visit them three times since I paid them to do one thing to it, I am very unhappy to be charged anything, even for the tube testing.  Oh - he told me if I paid cash, it would be 50, but when I picked up the amp, it was back to 70. He will never get another dime out of me.


----------



## JohanGao

jerick70 said:


> You would use the XLR preamp outputs on the WA33 to connect to your amp. But your integrated amp doesn't have XLR inputs so that won't work. You would have to get your WA33 modded by Woo or get a new amp.



The problem is, when I check the back of my WA33 there is no XLR preamp outputs... What I am afraid is, I request for custom speaker out, so they replace the XLR preamp with speaker out...



Csericks said:


> Have you called or emailed Woo Audio to ask?


Not Yet



John Aiello said:


> Cardas makes XLR to RCA connectors.  I use them all the time.  You would use the XLR to RCA to convert the balanced output to an RCA output to feed your Azur.  Don't do that speaker thing.  It's not the way to go.



The problem is, when I check the back of my WA33 there is no XLR preamp outputs... What I am afraid is, I request for custom speaker out, so they replace the XLR preamp with speaker out...


----------



## jerick70

JohanGao said:


> The problem is, when I check the back of my WA33 there is no XLR preamp outputs... What I am afraid is, I request for custom speaker out, so they replace the XLR preamp with speaker out...
> 
> 
> Not Yet
> ...


That's a problem. Do you have any pre-outs on your WA33?  Maybe Woo added some with the speaker out.  Woo doesn't put pre-outs on the WA5 LE unless you special order them. I leaned that the hard way. I sold my WA5 before I could upgrade it.


----------



## matthewhypolite

SeeHear said:


> I dropped mine off and picked it up - I don't want to know what he would have tried to charge for shipping.  What bothered me wasn't the amount of money - but that he charged me at all.  It was in because they screwed up the last time they had it. Yeah, they checked out my tubes - but I know how to operate a tube tester; it's not terribly labor intensive. Given that my amp has had to visit them three times since I paid them to do one thing to it, I am very unhappy to be charged anything, even for the tube testing.  Oh - he told me if I paid cash, it would be 50, but when I picked up the amp, it was back to 70. He will never get another dime out of me.



Reading stuff like this is very worrying, seeing that i just spent thousands of dollars on the WA33 EE (should be arriving this week)


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2 (Feb 1, 2018)

I feel like the biggest idiot on the planet, just would like to share this.
Back in December when I purchased the wa6 I planned to run this amp with
My audeze lcd2 , assuming by reviews and opinions that these cans were pretty
Hard to drive .
So from day one I have had the wa6 on high gain and not even bothered to check
What the effects of low gain would be.
I always thought that there was something missing and the sound wasn’t fluid and
Seemed to have a graininess to the sound , my thought were that I was expecting a lot
Better .
Changing tubes and to no satisfaction day after day day after day until yesterday when I thought
Let me see what the low gain sounds like and what the *** is going on here the soundstage
Base dynamics just exploded into something that blew me away .
Can’t believe I have had it for over two months without even thinking about the gain switch .
Just thought I would share my experience WOW what an amp , now I know what the hype
Was about
I know have a good laugh


----------



## abvolt

Awesome, I have always liked the sq from low gain better on both my amp & dac your right it just sounds a lot better..enjoy


----------



## JohanGao

jerick70 said:


> That's a problem. Do you have any pre-outs on your WA33?  Maybe Woo added some with the speaker out.  Woo doesn't put pre-outs on the WA5 LE unless you special order them. I leaned that the hard way. I sold my WA5 before I could upgrade it.



Nothing pre-outs, only speaker out....


----------



## jerick70

JohanGao said:


> Nothing pre-outs, only speaker out....


Last time I had woo quote an upgrade for preouts on my WA5 it was only $250 plus shipping. The reason I never followed through is because I couldn't live without my rig for a couple of weeks.


----------



## Ahmadsabry

Saleh84 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just bought a WA5 v2, simply awesome!!
> just got a pair of sophia royal princess 300bs and a pair of sophia 274b mesh as an upgrade - highly recommended. sounds tubey/spacious but with lots of details/extension, tight base wish i could describe the sound better but I'm not an expert with audiophile terms . they are a bit pricey but i wanted to get one of the best upgrade tubes rather than keep rolling, at least for now.
> ...


Saleh I would like to trade it with LCD3F


----------



## matthewhypolite

It's here.....


----------



## baiyy1986

matthewhypolite said:


> It's here.....


WOW!


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

Very nice mate what did it set you back I’m jealous


----------



## bfreedma

matthewhypolite said:


> It's here.....




Congrats!  How long do you plan to run the stock tubes before really emptying the wallet?


----------



## matthewhypolite (Feb 3, 2018)

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> Very nice mate what did it set you back I’m jealous


 Too much. Lol. (Check woo's site)



bfreedma said:


> Congrats!  How long do you plan to run the stock tubes before really emptying the wallet?



Man its already empty, I went with the elite edition. But the amp sounds marvelous thus far. I'd probably run stock tubes for a year. Target next christmas for an upgrade, and then maybe every year or 2 check out other tubes options. I'll play it by ear based on available funds. But definitely wanna get up to some top teir tubes later this year.


----------



## SeeHear

matthewhypolite said:


> It's here.....



Beautiful!


----------



## Badas

matthewhypolite said:


> It's here.....



Congratulations. I'm very jelly.

You have to hand it to Woo they know how to make a beautiful looking amp. That is one of the most amazing amps I have seen.

Enjoy it.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Awesome, I have always liked the sq from low gain better on both my amp & dac your right it just sounds a lot better..enjoy



I've been thinking about your post the past few days. I respect your opinion. You are in a handful of members here that I read carefully and respect what is posted. 

I have been playing with the high and low setting on my WA22 and I agree with the differences between the two.

Obviously what I'm about to say depends on HP's and tubes used. 
I think the settings need more discussion. 
On low things open up. Treble gets more snap and dynamic.
On high things get a little bit relaxed. 
I almost went for low setting on my amp as I liked the extra snap as well. However I found it brings vocals forward and to snappy for my taste. Almost SS sounding. 
I ultimately asked myself what I want from this amp? I think owners should ask this question.
For me I want it to be mellow and relaxed. I have a very good SS amp that delivers similar results to the low setting so when I use tubes I want something different. 
So I may be the odd one out here. At the moment I have settled for the high setting. 

I suggest these setting get a bit more thought and trialing guys.


----------



## abvolt

Badas said:


> I've been thinking about your post the past few days. I respect your opinion. You are in a handful of members here that I read carefully and respect what is posted.
> 
> I have been playing with the high and low setting on my WA22 and I agree with the differences between the two.
> 
> ...



Thank you, yes with more thought I do agree your post is on target in which it's dependent on other factors like tubes or hp's, of the hp's I own the 560's do like more gain they just sound a lot better, You have obviously given much time on this which I appreciate. I guess maybe it's time to do my own comparisons I did in the past but it's been a number of years..Thanks again & enjoy


----------



## Khragon

What's this... saw it on Woo's Facebook page


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Khragon said:


> What's this... saw it on Woo's Facebook page



Something new for fans of electrostatics.


----------



## Odin412

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Something new for fans of electrostatics.



Woo 300B amp + MrSpeakers Voce sounds like an enticing combo...


----------



## Badas

Two 300B's per channel.


----------



## Khragon

So this will be Woo's version of Hifiman 300B electrostatic amp.


----------



## davehg

Anyone pair the Focal Clear with the WA5? How is the pairing sound? My local dealer is waiting to get his stock of Focal Clear's in. The review warned about pairing the Clear with a high impedance output tube amp - the WA5 is about middle pack on impedance.


----------



## JLoud

I have a WA5 le v2. This one has the selectable impedance. I have used the Elear and Utopia with it.  I think both sound fantastic with the WA5. The Utopia with it is my favorite paring. On high output there is a little bit of background noise, but the Utopia or any of the other Focal's don't need the extra power.


----------



## phase0

The CanJan NYC preview vid, this is the clip where he talks about Woo Audio including a little bit about their new electrostat amp:


----------



## watchdog507

JLoud said:


> I have a WA5 le v2. This one has the selectable impedance. I have used the Elear and Utopia with it.  I think both sound fantastic with the WA5. The Utopia with it is my favorite paring. On high output there is a little bit of background noise, but the Utopia or any of the other Focal's don't need the extra power.



_I'll concur with WA5-LE V2 being a match in heaven with Focal,specifically Utopias.  I like the combo so much that I sold my V281 as it wasn't getting any use.  The WA5 LE V2 has the Hi/low impedance adjustment along with Hi/low output and Hi/low power.  This allows the amp to be tailored to most headphones.  I'm not even tempted to try a WA33 yet._


----------



## Flisker

Hello guys,

  I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but other threads seems to be kind of dead.

I was thinking about buying some high-end power tubes for my Woo WA2, could you give me some recommendations ? I think I remember that one of the most sought after was *Western Electric 421A*, is this still the king or is there something better or similar ?

Thanks a lot for any info


----------



## Autostart

Flisker said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but other threads seems to be kind of dead.
> 
> ...



I have heard the same thing about the 421A but cannot bring myself to purchase them with their hefty price tag. I have a WA22 and don't recall if the power socket is the same but I've used 3 different types of tubes.

1) 6080 - super black background with an almost zero noise floor. Mids are toward along with good bass and just ok detail up top

2) dual 6BL7 ( dual 6BL7 to 6080 adapter required ) - I cannot say enough about this setup. The stage seems to be wrapped around you head with mids and highs given just that extra touch of air to make the separation needed for a wonderful listening session. My personal favorite 

NOTE: The gain seems to have doubled making the volume knob a little touchy. If youre not running super sensitive phones or IEM's you'll be ok. Ive done a bit of research on this setup and it seems to be safe. The socket is capable of up to 3 amps. The 6080 is a 2.5 amp tube and the 6BL7 is 1.5 amp. ( dual 6BL7 = 3 amps ). 

3) 6AS7 - This tube seems to have the best of both worlds, but not anyone thing the best if that makes sense.  It has a little more power than the 6080 and staging somewhere in the middle of the 6080 and dual 6BL7 setup. The issue with 6AS7, at least with me is that I cannot find a quiet set of tubes. I bought a set of RCA NOS and they were making a hissing and swishing noise that was  unbearable. I bought a second set..... same thing so I have officially given up on the 6AS7 tube for now.


----------



## Flisker

Thank you for fast informative reply 

wow, dual setup, it looks crazy, is it this ?







could you suggest some specific 6BL7 tubes and adapter brand ?

Thank you.


----------



## Autostart

Those adapter appear different. Here is my setup.

A quick search on eBay reveals these adapters but I'm not 100%. I could check when I get home if you PM me later this evening. 

EBay link

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/201511879930


----------



## MIKELAP

Flisker said:


> Thank you for fast informative reply
> 
> wow, dual setup, it looks crazy, is it this ?
> 
> ...


Link to adapter is same as below seller's name is XULINGMRS https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1pc-Gold-Du...fffef22f|iid:1&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236                                                                                                                               Also here's a link to the 6BL7 thread    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6bl7-tube-users.806043/


----------



## Flisker

Thanks for links guys.

I found ending auction on NOS 5998 TUNG SOL ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/202228138597?ViewItem=&item=202228138597 ) and pulled the trigger, hope I won't be disappointed . Any thoughts about these tubes ?


----------



## abvolt

I own 4 pair you will not be disappointed..


----------



## Autostart

abvolt said:


> I own 4 pair you will not be disappointed..



Sell me a set!!!!!


----------



## attmci

Autostart said:


> Sell me a set!!!!!


These are not rare. The problem is they are very good, so everyone has collected 10 pairs. LOL


----------



## Flisker

I'm glad to hear that. I own the Catham Electronics 2399 (at the end of their life  ) which from what I've read should be kind of same as these Tung Sol 5998 and the sale said they are NOS and price was ok so I was thinking... well at least I get new tubes of the same tier as the ones I have now and really like.

I'm also looking for rectifiers and remember people talking about Brimar EZ80, but there are Brimars on ebay for 15$ so I'm not sure if such a cheap tube can be the superb one. ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-EZ80-CV-1535-NOS-FOREIGN-BVA/332475762328?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 )

Do you guys have any favorite rectifiers ? Do they even matter ?


----------



## attmci

Flisker said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but other threads seems to be kind of dead.
> 
> ...


421a for WA2?  No. 

Try to buy a clear-top 5998, very close to a 421A in many amps.


----------



## Flisker

Thanks for tip attmci


----------



## attmci

Flisker said:


> I'm glad to hear that. I own the Catham Electronics 2399 (at the end of their life  ) which from what I've read should be kind of same as these Tung Sol 5998 and the sale said they are NOS and price was ok so I was thinking... well at least I get new tubes of the same tier as the ones I have now and really like.
> 
> I'm also looking for rectifiers and remember people talking about Brimar EZ80, but there are Brimars on ebay for 15$ so I'm not sure if such a cheap tube can be the superb one. ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-EZ80-CV-1535-NOS-FOREIGN-BVA/332475762328?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 )
> 
> Do you guys have any favorite rectifiers ? Do they even matter ?


2399 = 5998


----------



## Flisker

attmci said:


> 2399 = 5998



That's what I thought, thanks for confirmation 

These tubes seems to be much harder to find than few years ago  it's even worse when one looks for matched pairs.


----------



## abvolt

Flisker said:


> I'm glad to hear that. I own the Catham Electronics 2399 (at the end of their life  ) which from what I've read should be kind of same as these Tung Sol 5998 and the sale said they are NOS and price was ok so I was thinking... well at least I get new tubes of the same tier as the ones I have now and really like.
> 
> I'm also looking for rectifiers and remember people talking about Brimar EZ80, but there are Brimars on ebay for 15$ so I'm not sure if such a cheap tube can be the superb one. ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIMAR-EZ80-CV-1535-NOS-FOREIGN-BVA/332475762328?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 )
> 
> Do you guys have any favorite rectifiers ? Do they even matter ?



Rectifiers make a very big difference but I have no experience with the brimar ez80..


----------



## Krutsch

Flisker said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I was thinking about buying some high-end power tubes for my Woo WA2, could you give me some recommendations ? I think I remember that one of the most sought after was *Western Electric 421A*, is this still the king or is there something better or similar ?
> 
> Thanks a lot for any info



A re-post of my answer to a similar question, some time ago. Please note that I have a WA3 (not a WA2, so YMMV). Also, since writing this, I've spent more time with a pair of GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base" power tubes - I like 'em a lot. So, in the list below, I would place the GECs at 1.5.



> For the power tubes, that one is harder (read: more expensive). I recommend the following, in ascending order:
> 
> 3. Tung-Sol 7236 - clean and crisp sound, less bloomy or tubey (are those real words?), decent power and fast dynamics (compared to other 6080 compatible tubes). That last part is real; after spending a lot of time with the next two tubes, I noticed the speed right away with the TS 7236.
> 
> ...


----------



## Flisker (Feb 20, 2018)

Krutsch said:


> A re-post of my answer to a similar question, some time ago. Please note that I have a WA3 (not a WA2, so YMMV). Also, since writing this, I've spent more time with a pair of GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base" power tubes - I like 'em a lot. So, in the list below, I would place the GECs at 1.5.



Hey, thanks for nice summary.

Are these the Tung-Sol 7236'es you write about ?













GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base" .... this thing is impossible to get these days isn't it ?


----------



## Krutsch

Flisker said:


> Hey, thanks for nice summary.
> 
> Are these the Tung-Sol 7236'es you write about ?
> 
> GEC 6AS7g "Brown Base" .... this thing is impossible to get these days isn't it ?



I would assume they are the same. Yes, the GECs are unicorn tubes and seem to be even more rare than the WE421a w/ bottom D-getters.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Huge THANKS to everyone who came out to see us at CanJam NYC 2018. We made a short video.


----------



## fhuang

watchdog507 said:


> Although I don't own KR 274B's I do own some KR variants of 300b's.  I also own EML's.  I like the KR sound marginally better than EML and definitely better than Sophia's.  I sold off all of my Sophia's as I preferred the Czech tubes to my ears.  On another note.  274b's are rectifiers.  They do have an impact on sound but it is less than good driver and power tubes.




do you have the tradition/regular 300b and the balloon one?  what's the difference?


----------



## Flisker

Krutsch said:


> I would assume they are the same. Yes, the GECs are unicorn tubes and seem to be even more rare than the WE421a w/ bottom D-getters.



Ok, thank you !

Btw, may I ask how do I find out I'm looking at "D-getter" version of the tube ? I'm such a tubenoob  I understand what shield is on ECC88 type tubes, since there are silver and gray shields which is quite easy to see, but I'm not sure what does "bottom D-getter" mean or how does it look like.


----------



## watchdog507

fhuang said:


> do you have the tradition/regular 300b and the balloon one?  what's the difference?



The balloon 300B is a visual variation.  The internals are usually the same as a corresponding 300B from the same manufacturer.  I have EML 520B V3 (Incredible Sound and Power and a huge tube 8.5 inches from base to top ), EML 300B-XLS (Very Similar to the 520B V3 In sound), EML 300B Mesh (My least Favourite,  OK sound but has a harshness to it, even broken in), KR 300B (Really nice sound).  My only caution is that the exotic 300B's are good in WOO Amps with auto biasing.  Other manufacturers may not recommend them.  Always try to check first.  The KR's at work:


----------



## fhuang

watchdog507 said:


> The balloon 300B is a visual variation.  The internals are usually the same as a corresponding 300B from the same manufacturer.  I have EML 520B V3 (Incredible Sound and Power and a huge tube 8.5 inches from base to top ), EML 300B-XLS (Very Similar to the 520B V3 In sound), EML 300B Mesh (My least Favourite,  OK sound but has a harshness to it, even broken in), KR 300B (Really nice sound).  My only caution is that the exotic 300B's are good in WOO Amps with auto biasing.  Other manufacturers may not recommend them.  Always try to check first.  The KR's at work:




sorry, i actually meant, just what's the difference between the kr audio regular 300b and the balloon 300b


----------



## watchdog507

fhuang said:


> sorry, i actually meant, just what's the difference between the kr audio regular 300b and the balloon 300b



My understanding is that is an aesthetic construct. No functional value.


----------



## thecrow

Flisker said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but other threads seems to be kind of dead.
> 
> ...


For ME the best power tubes are the gec 6as7g

Exceptional detail. Great layering. Exceptional extension through both lower and upper ends. Not grainy or muddy at all (like cheaper tubes).

PERSONALLY i easily rate these above the tung sol 5998. SImply more magical (with my hd800)

They do pop up from ebay from professional tube sellers/stores for about $500-$600 usd a pair. I have three pairs (not NOS but very good) that i picked up along the way a lot cheaper - patience and luck.

You can sometimes find a pair for about $300 - just check the seller has a good history and accepts returns if you find them noisy (eg humming)

I use these 90-95% of the time because of what it delivers as described above.

I would easily spend $500/600 if i needed a new pair without blinking...after i checked i had the money for it of course and looked around for a deal

I have never been bothered about round v non round bases. As long as they are brown.
And I have never been overly concerned about matched pairs - unless i was to spend $500+

You'll see seller called "yitry" comes up with pairs on ebay from time to time - that is Langrex in the UK


----------



## Krutsch

Flisker said:


> Ok, thank you !
> 
> Btw, may I ask how do I find out I'm looking at "D-getter" version of the tube ? I'm such a tubenoob  I understand what shield is on ECC88 type tubes, since there are silver and gray shields which is quite easy to see, but I'm not sure what does "bottom D-getter" mean or how does it look like.



See the attached photo form my collection. Those 'D'-shaped loops at the bottom are D-getters. If you look at the 5998 and many of the WE 421a tubes I've seen, they are missing these.

Tube manufacturers would routinely re-label someone else's tubes to fill a sales order. For example, I have a set of Telefunken E288CC driver tubes, but they are really Siemens tubes from the early '60s (Telefunken never made an E288CC, but they did make E188CC tubes). I'm not a tube historian, so take my comments with the appropriate grain of salt.

However, I believe the 5998 / 421a confusion comes from re-branding of another vendor's tube. All of the 421a tubes I own came from a Western Bell person's estate sale and I believe they are Western Electric OEM tubes.

And, FWIW, they really do outshine the GECs and everything else I've heard.


----------



## Flisker

thecrow said:


> For ME the best power tubes are the gec 6as7g
> 
> Exceptional detail. Great layering. Exceptional extension through both lower and upper ends. Not grainy or muddy at all (like cheaper tubes).
> 
> ...





Krutsch said:


> See the attached photo form my collection. Those 'D'-shaped loops at the bottom are D-getters. If you look at the 5998 and many of the WE 421a tubes I've seen, they are missing these.
> 
> Tube manufacturers would routinely re-label someone else's tubes to fill a sales order. For example, I have a set of Telefunken E288CC driver tubes, but they are really Siemens tubes from the early '60s (Telefunken never made an E288CC, but they did make E188CC tubes). I'm not a tube historian, so take my comments with the appropriate grain of salt.
> 
> ...



Thank you guys that's awesome info, exactly what I was looking for.

Now I finally get what is "D-getter"  ; )


----------



## abvolt

I agree with you guys the 5998's I own are simply outstanding in their sound quality, I also owned many different 6as7g's & 6080's which sound great especially the mullards, but none are really even close to the 5998's, this is very subjective of course and is only my opinion..enjoy


----------



## HiFiGuy528

watchdog507 said:


> The balloon 300B is a visual variation.  The internals are usually the same as a corresponding 300B from the same manufacturer.  I have EML 520B V3 (Incredible Sound and Power and a huge tube 8.5 inches from base to top ), EML 300B-XLS (Very Similar to the 520B V3 In sound), EML 300B Mesh (My least Favourite,  OK sound but has a harshness to it, even broken in), KR 300B (Really nice sound).  My only caution is that the exotic 300B's are good in WOO Amps with auto biasing.  Other manufacturers may not recommend them.  Always try to check first.  The KR's at work:



Great system! I am a fan of PS Audio products as well.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

i purchased the gz34 metal base for my woo6 the tube has not been used for 20 odd years
it is a used tube sometime before that , my question is do you think because it has been 
sitting for so long does the gz34 need burning in again ? 
cheers guys .


----------



## Flisker (Feb 26, 2018)

thecrow said:


> For ME the best power tubes are the gec 6as7g
> 
> Exceptional detail. Great layering. Exceptional extension through both lower and upper ends. Not grainy or muddy at all (like cheaper tubes).



Ok I want some of that magic too 

Hope these are the ones you were talking about : https://www.ebay.com/itm/G-E-C-6AS7G-A1834-Used-Vacuum-tubes-Brown-Base-Made-in-England-One-Pair-/282854213804?item=282854213804&autorefresh=true&ViewItem=&nma=true&si=atOjf%2B4kkZ1a%2BBGAKf168q4KPl0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## Krutsch

Flisker said:


> Ok I want some of that magic too
> 
> Hope these are the ones you were talking about : https://www.ebay.com/itm/G-E-C-6AS7G-A1834-Used-Vacuum-tubes-Brown-Base-Made-in-England-One-Pair-/282854213804?item=282854213804&autorefresh=true&ViewItem=&nma=true&si=atOjf%2B4kkZ1a%2BBGAKf168q4KPl0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



Nice! At that price, assuming you are the auction winner, you did well. Enjoy!


----------



## thecrow

Flisker said:


> Ok I want some of that magic too
> 
> Hope these are the ones you were talking about : https://www.ebay.com/itm/G-E-C-6AS7G-A1834-Used-Vacuum-tubes-Brown-Base-Made-in-England-One-Pair-/282854213804?item=282854213804&autorefresh=true&ViewItem=&nma=true&si=atOjf%2B4kkZ1a%2BBGAKf168q4KPl0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Yes. They are the ones. I hope they come up well. 

Enjoy!


----------



## Flisker

Krutsch said:


> Nice! At that price, assuming you are the auction winner, you did well. Enjoy!





thecrow said:


> Yes. They are the ones. I hope they come up well.
> 
> Enjoy!



Thanks for confirmation 

Btw, I also got yesterday those Tung-Sol 5998's I linked few pages back ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite.428570/page-2675#post-14047891 ) and they do sound different from Chatham 2399's. I'm not sure if it's really different "tube" or the difference is new vs old tube. The TS 5998 has stronger bass with more quantity and seems more dynamic overall. On some tracks I even felt like there is way too much bass. 

_(Using Sennheiser HD 650)_


----------



## Evo1668 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hi..This is my first post on the site, although I have been an avid lurker on these pages for years...

Here is a pic of my WA5le setup - all Sophia tubes, SERP 300B, 6SN7, & 274b Mesh  driving HEK v2 - Front end is Roon server and a Linn Klimax DS/3.

Newest tube addition being the 6sn7’s which have around 30 hours on them. They replaced a set of Siemens c3g, which although a beautifully transparent driver. Over time I found them to sound ever so slightly incorrect tonally (maybe just a tad too thin sounding) with the WA5....  The Sophia 6sn7 suit my palette much better......


----------



## Ad-Astra

Should I get woo or darkvoice


----------



## Hibuckhobby

You should buy my wa6 with all the extra tubes for hust $475 plus shipping.
Sorry for hijack guys.
Hibuck...


----------



## JLoud

I had the Darkvoice 336se and currently Woo wa6se and wa5le. Had all three at the same time. Both woo amps were magnitudes better than the Darkvoice. Not even close. All 3 had upgraded tubes.


----------



## Hibuckhobby

The wa5le is a true end game piece.


----------



## Ad-Astra

well the price makes a big difference, I'm talking about something like WA3 vs Darkvoice 336se would be a little better?


----------



## baiyy1986

Hi guys, I have a good experience with WA6se.
Is WA22 a huge improvement of WA6se?
or I should consider WA5?


----------



## JLoud

I have both the WA6se and WA5le. Both with upgraded tubes. Emission Labs to be specific. I feel the WA5 was a very nice step up from the 6. Bigger sound stage, faster transients, and more natural timbre. Have never heard the WA22.


----------



## thecrow

i own the wa2 for my hd800 - silky and smooth - great match


i have had a quick listen to the 6se and 22 - i found them more vibrant/lively

i believe/assume the 22 would be an upgrade as it will offer a chunk more (but not sure if significantly/massively so)  through tube rolling and balanced connections if that better suits your dac

i also had a quick listen to the wa5 le and i though that was another ballpark altogether - wow!!! exceptional!!!
but that was with a few THOUSAND spent on tube upgrades

if you haven't already i would also look at other amps at that kind of price point so as to get, as much as you can , exactly what you are after - eg 2359 glenn 300b amp, studio six, cavalli, etc


if you can afford it definitely have a look at the top end as you may prevent the gear in between in stepping up to the TOTL in upcoming years/months


----------



## Flisker

Evo1668 said:


> Hi..This is my first post on the site, although I have been an avid lurker on these pages for years...
> 
> Here is a pic of my WA5le setup - all Sophia tubes, SERP 300B, 6SN7, & 274b Mesh  driving HEK v2 - Front end is Roon server and a Linn Klimax DS/3



Looks amazing


----------



## Flisker

thecrow said:


> Yes. They are the ones. I hope they come up well.
> 
> Enjoy!



So ...











I received the tubes today and I have to agree with you, these are the best tubes I've ever head. It's just, holy crap, I can't believe it for the price I payed for these.

Thank you for the tip !


----------



## thecrow (Mar 8, 2018)

Flisker said:


> So ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fantastic - great to hear (thanks for getting back to me/us)

and with the siemens cca you have listed the sound doesn't get more energetic, vibrant. punchy etc than that combo

mind you with my hd800 that combo can get a little too bright but with your hd650/hd880s that should be less of an issue

edit: ps "dubstep girl" here was the one that put me on to these when i first bought my amp and had no idea about the tube options out there


----------



## Flisker

thecrow said:


> fantastic - great to hear (thanks for getting back to me/us)
> 
> and with the siemens cca you have listed the sound doesn't get more energetic, vibrant. punchy etc than that combo
> 
> ...



No problem, I'm happy to share my experience 

Yea, I see how it might be bit on the bright side with HD800, but it's perfectly fine with 650/800S. I really can't handle too bright sound, since I like to do test-listening at high volumes so I can hear the differences more clearly and it's no-go with bright setups. I just feel like the good audio setup should sound good even on high volume and by good I mean it's not painful. I want to be in the situation where I'm thinking "wow... I should back up with the volume ... because the bass is killing me, not the treble or female vocals".

Another thing I found interesting is that the rectifier tubes are quite important. I have only one pair that I find acceptable, all others create somewhat bright, unpleasant sound. So I'm looking for some backup rectifiers and have no idea what to pick. Got Tesla EZ81's - it's not ok to my ears, Brimar EZ80 - same thing ... too bright female vocals and only pair that is fine is Trigon EZ80 which is probably the old stock tube for WA2  (can't find these anywhere  )


----------



## musicman59

baiyy1986 said:


> Hi guys, I have a good experience with WA6se.
> Is WA22 a huge improvement of WA6se?
> or I should consider WA5?


if you have the money I would go with the WA5 or WA5-LE.
When I was getting into a tube amplifier I was thinking on the WA22 because my system is fully balanced. I had the opportunity to listen to the WA22 and the WA5-LE at the same show and even the WA5-LE is single ended to me it was much better than the WA22 in all regards to the point I placed my order for a WA5-LE not long after that.


----------



## JLoud

The V2 of the WA5le has XLR inputs and an XLR headphone jack. It is a single ended amp, the balanced options are just convenience. But I do think my WA5le sounds better with XLR input from my Yggy. This may have more to do with the Yggy then the amp. But the option is still there. I currently have both WA6 and 5. Going back and forth the 5 is much nicer. Very similiar sound signature, just better in every way.


----------



## thecrow

Flisker said:


> No problem, I'm happy to share my experience
> 
> Yea, I see how it might be bit on the bright side with HD800, but it's perfectly fine with 650/800S. I really can't handle too bright sound, since I like to do test-listening at high volumes so I can hear the differences more clearly and it's no-go with bright setups. I just feel like the good audio setup should sound good even on high volume and by good I mean it's not painful. I want to be in the situation where I'm thinking "wow... I should back up with the volume ... because the bass is killing me, not the treble or female vocals".
> 
> Another thing I found interesting is that the rectifier tubes are quite important. I have only one pair that I find acceptable, all others create somewhat bright, unpleasant sound. So I'm looking for some backup rectifiers and have no idea what to pick. Got Tesla EZ81's - it's not ok to my ears, Brimar EZ80 - same thing ... too bright female vocals and only pair that is fine is Trigon EZ80 which is probably the old stock tube for WA2  (can't find these anywhere  )


Keep me posted with any rectifier info you may discover. They are the only tubes i have not mucked around with. I bought a pair of rft ez80 (i think that’s what they are called). Some people say it doesn’t change much cn on the amp. Others disagree. 

Re tubes and volumes, one thing that impressed me about the pinched waist 6922/e88cc tubes (particularly the holland but also the usa) is the amount of great tone and layers they exhibit even at low volume. For me those are not “must haves” like the gec6as7g but more like “really wanna haves”. Again not cheap - up to $600 a pair, sometimes $300/400 if parient but for me worth the upgrade when i had an itch to induldge in them. 

holland e188cc tubes from early to mid 60’s for about $150 are great value but once i bought the pinched waist tubes my other Holland tubes were sold off


----------



## Flisker (Mar 9, 2018)

thecrow said:


> Keep me posted with any rectifier info you may discover. They are the only tubes i have not mucked around with. I bought a pair of rft ez80 (i think that’s what they are called). Some people say it doesn’t change much cn on the amp. Others disagree.
> 
> Re tubes and volumes, one thing that impressed me about the pinched waist 6922/e88cc tubes (particularly the holland but also the usa) is the amount of great tone and layers they exhibit even at low volume. For me those are not “must haves” like the gec6as7g but more like “really wanna haves”. Again not cheap - up to $600 a pair, sometimes $300/400 if parient but for me worth the upgrade when i had an itch to induldge in them.
> 
> holland e188cc tubes from early to mid 60’s for about $150 are great value but once i bought the pinched waist tubes my other Holland tubes were sold off



Will do  Well I'm not musician or some audio "PRO" , but I can absolutely hear big difference between the rectifier tubes. I might not be able to tell them apart in all songs, but I can do it in "problematic" ones.... since those songs just suck hard - unlistenable for me. But I can understand that there will be people who won't hear the difference, like there are people who can't tell wines apart (I'm probably one of those, since I don't drink at all) .

Ye, I heard about those, but didn't really get to looking for / buying them, since they were so expensive and I was happy with the Siemens CCa's I got. Might look around on ebay for those  But yes, the GEC 6AS7G's are must. Hope I will get to try also those famous WE 421A's sometimes in future.

I also had E188CC, Siemenses and was quite pleased with them.


----------



## thecrow

Flisker said:


> Will do  Well I'm not musician or some audio "PRO" , but I can absolutely hear big difference between the rectifier tubes. I might not be able to tell them apart in all songs, but I can do it in "problematic" ones.... since those songs just suck hard - unlistenable for me. But I can understand that there will be people who won't hear the difference, like there are people who can't tell wines apart (I'm probably one of those, since I don't drink at all) .
> 
> Ye, I heard about those, but didn't really get to looking for / buying them, since they were so expensive and I was happy with the Siemens CCa's I got. Might look around on ebay for those  But yes, the GEC 6AS7G's are must. Hope I will get to try also those famous WE 421A's sometimes in future.
> 
> I also had E188CC, Siemenses and was quite pleased with them.



I had and liked the siemens e188cc too. Nice (somewhat) solid sound and tone

I did wasn’t too keen for the e88cc or ecc88 though


----------



## davveswe

Who do mod work on the wa2? . Change caps.


----------



## 55Powers

Hello Woo owners,

Been looking at an option from Woo to fill my tube amp slot.
I've sort of dipped my toes through an Ember II, but I've concluded that i need to go "full tube at some point".

I have been looking at the Wa22, but I will not be able to audition.

Based on my current headphone park, does it look like a good fit, or would you point me in another direction?

Headphones:
 - Sennheiser HD800S
 - Focal Clear
 - Audeze LCD2C
 - Hifiman HE-500
 - Sennheiser HD650
 - Sennheiser HD580
 - E-mu Teak
 - Denon AH-D2000


----------



## watchdog507

55Powers said:


> Hello Woo owners,
> 
> Been looking at an option from Woo to fill my tube amp slot.
> I've sort of dipped my toes through an Ember II, but I've concluded that i need to go "full tube at some point".
> ...



It's hard to find Woo Amps to audition.  My experience with the WA6 was underwhelming.  So much so, that I didn't know if I wanted to stay with Woo.  
The sweet spot price wise was the WA5-LE.  Based on faith and a host of reviews, I went all in.  I have no regrets.  Tube rolling can keep you up all night and the tweaks to the tubes present immediate changes to the sound.


----------



## jerick70 (Mar 13, 2018)

@55Powers  I recently sold my WA5-LE so I could try other amps.  The WA5 is one of the best amps out there.  I have a Violectric HPA V281 and a Schiit Freya / J2 combo now.  I have to say that the WA5 holds it's own against this TOTL gear.  One thing I find with the amps I have now is there is more definition in the detail and there is a bit more slam in the bass.  But that is the price you pay to have a tube amp. 

I just received the Apex Pinnacle2 on the loaner program from TTVJ.  I haven't listened to it yet but look forward to comparing to my other gear.  We will see how a $18k amp/preamp stacks up....


----------



## thecrow

55Powers said:


> Hello Woo owners,
> 
> Been looking at an option from Woo to fill my tube amp slot.
> I've sort of dipped my toes through an Ember II, but I've concluded that i need to go "full tube at some point".
> ...


Yes. The wa22 is a very versatile amp

The wa5 is a very special sounding amp but a LOT more expensive. 

I have heard the wa5 briefly and was very impressed but if I was spending that much (including top of the line tubes - add a few grand) i would be looking to demo and try/read up on a whole lot of other options too to get the best fit for me. The wa5 would definitely be in the mix


----------



## 55Powers

jerick70 said:


> @55Powers  I recently sold my WA5-LE so I could try other amps.  The WA5 is one of the best amps out there.  I have a Violectric HPA V281 and a Schiit Freya / J2 combo now.  I have to say that the WA5 holds it's own against this TOTL gear.  One thing I find with the amps I have now is there is more definition in the detail and there is a bit more slam in the bass.  But that is the price you pay to have a tube amp.
> 
> I just received the Apex Pinnacle2 on the loaner program from TTVJ.  I haven't listened to it yet but look forward to comparing to my other gear.  We will see how a $18k amp/preamp stacks up....



Hmmm, I thought detail retrieval would be at least on par if not better with these tube amps, guess that's not part of the deal at this tier.
Holy... that Pinnacle, let us know where you will be posting your impressions of what 18K sounds like.


----------



## 55Powers

thecrow said:


> Yes. The wa22 is a very versatile amp
> 
> The wa5 is a very special sounding amp but a LOT more expensive.
> 
> I have heard the wa5 briefly and was very impressed but if I was spending that much (including top of the line tubes - add a few grand) i would be looking to demo and try/read up on a whole lot of other options too to get the best fit for me. The wa5 would definitely be in the mix



The wa5 looks good, maybe it can be sourced at a good price used at some point. 

Have you had hands on with the 22 as well?

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## thecrow

55Powers said:


> The wa5 looks good, maybe it can be sourced at a good price used at some point.
> 
> Have you had hands on with the 22 as well?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.


I used to have a polaris for my hd800. For my set up i had expected and wanted more so i sold it.

I later bought and still gave a wa2. Very silky smooth for my hd800. I’m very happy with it. Unfortunately it works best for high impedance headphones and is a bit hit and miss with lower impedance.

I have had one demo with th the wa22 only and only with stock tubes so I’m far from knowledgeable on that one. I found it quicker and (kind of) brighter than the wa2. It’s not a bright amp but I didn’t find it very tubey or as silky like the wa2. 

It did have a fair level of detail. More pinchy and vibrant than the wa2. And that was just with stock tubes. So lots to play with there.  I can’t really give much more than that. 

Definitely better than the polaris

You should find a number of reviews here on it - even the wa22 v wa2 sibling rivalry thread that might give you a good idea


----------



## jerick70

55Powers said:


> Hmmm, I thought detail retrieval would be at least on par if not better with these tube amps, guess that's not part of the deal at this tier.
> Holy... that Pinnacle, let us know where you will be posting your impressions of what 18K sounds like.


In my experience solid state equipment tends to have better detail retrieval than a comparative tube amp.  The WA5 was by far the best of any tube amp, in detail retrieval, that I've owned.

I setup the Pinnacle last night.  It is an incredible amp. The one place that it shines is as a preamp.  I'm using it with my J2 and Zu Omen II DWs.  Holy snikes Batman..... FYI I received the non-ultra version so it is only $12k new not $18k.


----------



## Csericks

jerick70 said:


> In my experience solid state equipment tends to have better detail retrieval than a comparative tube amp.  The WA5 was by far the best of any tube amp, in detail retrieval, that I've owned.
> 
> I setup the Pinnacle last night.  It is an incredible amp. The one place that it shines is as a preamp.  I'm using it with my J2 and Zu Omen II DWs.  Holy snikes Batman..... FYI I received the non-ultra version so it is only $12k new not $18k.



Did you use the Omens with the WA 5? If so, what did you think of the combination?


----------



## jerick70

Csericks said:


> Did you use the Omens with the WA 5? If so, what did you think of the combination?


I sold my WA5 before I purchased the Omens.  I'm sure they would have been an excellent pairing.


----------



## binot (Mar 15, 2018)

Hiya, I would like to request some help from fellow WA5-LE owners

I just took delivery of a new WA5-LE last evening. Although the amp is sounding to be the best, if not the best I've heard, the following are making it to be total disappointment. I’m not new to woo tubeamps.. I have previously owned the wa2 and the wa6-se. Although lower in cost, Both of these doesn’t behave in this manner.

1) Loud POP thru the headphones. There are 2 scenarios which this occurs,

a) During normal switching on of the amp, with the headphones plug-in. Occurs for both the 1/4 and XLR
b) Using the switch for LO to HI power. I unplug the headphones when I do the HI-LO switching. But when I plug the headphones in and  turn on the amp, the headphones still POP.

2) After turning OFF the amp via the amp's power knob, audible buzzing can be heard on the headphones. This is despite the amp’s power switch being in the “OFF” position. Buzzing can still be heard 10hours after turning it off.

3) With no music playing, Very audible Buzzing when on high impedance. Buzzing still audible on low impedance. I understand that the Wa5 is supposedly a very quiet amplifier. This is by far having the worst woo amp for amp buzz as compared to my previous wa2 or Wa6-SE. Both wa2 and and wa6 has almost pitch black backgroung

It would be very strange if I have to leave my headphones unplug with the amp in OFF position, or I cannot have any headphones plug in when I switch on the amp. Every POP sound it makes, its like a shot thru my heart. I'm sure this is not good for my HD800S or my TH900.

Appreciate if any existing WA5 owners can advise if Im doing something wrong or if what Im experiencing is not the norm. Thank you for reading my long rant.


----------



## Evo1668 (Mar 15, 2018)

It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong....

I assume during normal switch on you have the headphones connected and the volume control turned right down.  When I switch my WA5 on, all I can hear through the headphones, is the chiming of the tubes as the circuits warm up. Once the blue power light stops flashing and opens up the circuit proper - there are no pops, just silence.  Which would suggest yours is not acting normally.  

I only ever change the Hi/Lo power output setting with the amp switched off - and yes my headphones, remain connected to the Woo amp all the time, but I have never experienced any loud pops.  Although I understand this loud pop can happen, if you switch the Hi/lo power whilst there is power to the amp and the headphones are plugged in. 

With regards to the buzzing, have you tried adjusting the two little trim pots - one either side located under the handles on the amp unit,  to see if this helps with the buzzing.  Although the buzzing could also point to dirty connection pins on the tubes, or tube sockets. Did you clean and check all the pins when you first plugged the tubes in? Finally, could be a rogue set of tubes

Have you contacted Woo Audio about the problems you're having - I would suggest they are your best approach to resolving the issues you are having.


----------



## binot

Yes. When the headphones are plugged in the volume is ALWAYS turned to the lowest. I have not tried adjusting the trim pots. Did not even know that they are there. There was no manual in the box. This is getting to be frustrating. This is something I did not expect from getting a top tier Woo amp. I'll contact my local dealer as I got the amplifier thru them.

Now Im worried if my HD800S and my TH900 are damaged by this constant popping.


----------



## pippen99

You will definitely get a pop when switching hi/lo with the phones plugged in.  +1 on pretty much everything Evo1668 said though I am even more cautious.  I never turn my WA5 on with the phones plugged in but then I do the same with my Liquid Gold SS amp.  I also unplug my phones before turning the amp off(you are not paranoid if they really are out to get you).  I also had to adjust the attenuators when I received my amp(used).  Whenever I tear down for a meet or other purpose I always clean the pins.  

If the buzz is only in one channel then you can move tubes around to pinpoint the offending tube.  It in all likelihood will be a power or drive tube not a rectifier.  My WA5 is pretty much black and if I want to go that last 1% i throw in my WU4GB SS rectifiers.  Hope you get it figured out.  My WA5 is a keeper until money falls out of the sky and I am blessed with a WA33.


----------



## pippen99

The manual is here.  http://wooaudio.com/manuals/WA5_Owners_Manual.pdf


----------



## binot (Mar 15, 2018)

pippen99 said:


> The manual is here.  http://wooaudio.com/manuals/WA5_Owners_Manual.pdf



Thanks Pippen.



pippen99 said:


> You will definitely get a pop when switching hi/lo with the phones plugged in.  +1 on pretty much everything Evo1668 said though I am even more cautious.  I never turn my WA5 on with the phones plugged in but then I do the same with my Liquid Gold SS amp.  I also unplug my phones before turning the amp off(you are not paranoid if they really are out to get you).  .



Hmm.. Thru out my years of head-fing, I have never come across the need to ever remove my headphones when Im turning off or On the amplifier. Main thing is my concern with the wearing of the headphone jack from the constant plugging and unplugging. If I have to do this with the WA5, I'm at a lost for words. C'mon, this was a previous flag-ship model before the wa33. This is not what I would expect from a top tier amp.


----------



## thecrow

Is it just me...????

I was once told and have always unplugged/turned things off from the outside in and turned otems on from the inside out. 

Eg when turning on....in order....computer, dac, amp, monitors or headphones. And when turning off then the opposite 

Always worked and made sense to me. 

But hey I’m not an electrical engineer or expert, i’m just fearful of pops.


----------



## pithyginger63

thecrow said:


> fearful of pops



for some reason i read that as fearful of the oops


----------



## pippen99

I just always thought it was just reasonable and sensible to power on before plugging in my phones.  I also always do the reverse, unplug before powering down.


----------



## phase0

I leave my headphone plugged in when I turn on/off my WA5. No noticeable pop for me. I have the volume to zero when I power on/off also usually not on my head. HI/LO would definitely cause a pop so I don't have HPs plugged in for that if I was going to switch it. Otherwise like others said no real problems with noise/buzzing/hums or whatever. I can hear tubes pinging when it warms up and that settles down in 5-10 min.


----------



## Evo1668

I am fairly certain if you had an amplifier which ran speakers, you would not switch on, without a resistive load being present I.e. speakers, at the outputs. You would not connect the speakers after the switch on event.... same applies with headphones. And Woo explain as much in the manual from memory.


----------



## thecrow (Mar 16, 2018)

i was always told - and it could all be incorrect (this was in a home recording studio) that you would turn amp on and then the speakers (on nil volume)

i was never told anything about resistive loads so i am very much coming in from a totally noob / layman point of view - and am happy to hear i was told wrong

like a river flowing.......or should i say "like sands through the hour glass"............









i shall read up on it in between youtube clips/poker games whilst on line

thanks


----------



## thecrow

hi again

i found this that i though was interesting/informative for me - re wa6 and my wa2:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/so-...rn-on-tube-amps-with-headphones.465005/page-3

cheers
peter t


----------



## joseph69

Evo1668 said:


> You would not connect the speakers after the switch on event.... same applies with headphones.


Agreed, I always have my headphones plugged in upon power on/off without issue. Does anyone unplug the cables to their speakers in a 2-channel system every time they power on/off their amps? I don't think so.


----------



## binot (Mar 16, 2018)

I visited my local dealer and tested out their demo wa5-le. And was pleased to know that, with the headphones plugged in, there's no loud pop when the amp was powered on. Thats a relieve. I have also written to Woo Audio, Mike regarding the issues Im facing.

Hopefully, they will take care of me ...


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Mar 16, 2018)

@binot

It sounds like the PWR switch is not in the exact position. The knob is rather stiff. When changing the PWR switch from HI and LO, disconnect the headphone first to avoid the pop sound. This applies only to WA5 and WA5-LE.

For most headphones, we recommend using LO power output. Turn the knob all the way to the RIGHT to the LO position. The HI power setting is for headphones such as the ABYSS, AKG K1000, LCD4 and SUSVARA.


----------



## JLoud

The only headphones I use the HI power setting for are my LCD-4's. I leave my headphones plugged in when I turn the amp on or off. No loud pops. I do unplug them and turn volume all the way down before changing power setting. Or change it before turning the amp on. No issues with noise or pops. All though my Utopia's have background noise on high impedance setting or high power setting. Never run them that way, was just curious to find out.


----------



## binot

Still trouble shooting.....

Any WA5-LE owners experiencing this phenomena.

Hum and buzzing heard thru the headphones after the amp's power switch is turned Off. This Hum/buzzing can still be heard despite switching the mains socket Off. The Hum/Buzzing only goes away when the AC cord is completely unplugged from the mains socket.

Strange...

Anyway. Thanks to all whom responded regarding my earlier posting. Cheers


----------



## Evo1668

Don’t experience any buzzing or hum on my WA5LE either switched on or off.....sounds like it could be an ‘earth loop’ in your system. When you switch off does the hum disappear when you disconnect the xlr/rca inputs as opposed to the mains lead? Have you tried plugging your WA5 into another system, different mains socket, interconnects? To see if the hum disappears...


----------



## Matro5

looks like Woo is about to release the 2nd gen of the WA22. Apologies if I'm late to the party here, but the the preamp function is interesting to me...

https://jack-wu-wuhx.squarespace.com/amplifiers/wa22


----------



## binot

Evo1668 said:


> Don’t experience any buzzing or hum on my WA5LE either switched on or off.....sounds like it could be an ‘earth loop’ in your system. When you switch off does the hum disappear when you disconnect the xlr/rca inputs as opposed to the mains lead? Have you tried plugging your WA5 into another system, different mains socket, interconnects? To see if the hum disappears...



I removed all the interconnects, and tested. The amp was also brought to a different location in the house with a change the power cord.
But sadly, it still hums with when its OFF.


----------



## attmci

binot said:


> I removed all the interconnects, and tested. The amp was also brought to a different location in the house with a change the power cord.
> But sadly, it still hums with when its OFF.



I would return it to the shop.


----------



## elira

binot said:


> I removed all the interconnects, and tested. The amp was also brought to a different location in the house with a change the power cord.
> But sadly, it still hums with when its OFF.


Have you tested the wiring in your house? Inverted wires could cause that.


----------



## binot

attmci said:


> I would return it to the shop.



Well... Im still working with both Woo and the local distributor for solving the POP Issue and this Humming issue.. This is probably the most expensive Tube amp that I ever bought... and also turning into the most disappointing and frustrating experience...


----------



## joseph69

binot said:


> Well... Im still working with both Woo and the local distributor for solving the POP Issue and this Humming issue.. This is probably the most expensive Tube amp that I ever bought... and also turning into the most disappointing and frustrating experience...


Hoping everything works out for you.
If the amp is new, they shouldn't hesitate to give you another one immediately.


----------



## binot

elira said:


> Have you tested the wiring in your house? Inverted wires could cause that.



Hmmm... What do you mean by "Inverted" ? Swappinp between the "Live" and neutral wires?

All my previous Woo ampliers, WA2, WA6-SE and WA-7 all is working fine without this hum. Not to mention my current DAC/AMP.. Sony TA-ZH1 ES..

Previously I was also using a  mini KGSSHV, with Stax SR009.. which was dead quiet.. non of them experiencing this weird humming. Urrgggg!


----------



## binot

binot said:


> Hmmm... What do you mean by "Inverted" ? Swappinp between the "Live" and neutral wires?
> 
> All my previous Woo ampliers, WA2, WA6-SE and WA-7 all is working fine without this hum. Not to mention my current DAC/AMP.. Sony TA-ZH1 ES..
> 
> Previously I was also using a  mini KGSSHV, with Stax SR009.. which was dead quiet.. non of them experiencing this weird humming. Urrgggg!



One more thing to add... The unit at my dealer also exhibited the same weird humming.. when the unit was off.. So no other WA5-LE owners in the states experience this issue? Possibility of a bad production batch?


----------



## JLoud

I have a WA5-LE that is about 6 months old. Absolutely zero hum. Even when turned on it is dead silent. On high gain with my Utopias there is slight hum when on. But this sounds like a power supply issue to me.


----------



## isol

Anybody know where can I order a pair of Tung-sol 6F8G Round Plate for my WA6-SE? Thnks..


----------



## jerick70

isol said:


> Anybody know where can I order a pair of Tung-sol 6F8G Round Plate for my WA6-SE? Thnks..


They are hard to find.  Keep watching Ebay.  I picked up a pair there 6 months ago.


----------



## isol

jerick70 said:


> They are hard to find.  Keep watching Ebay.  I picked up a pair there 6 months ago.


Ok, thanks..


----------



## matthewhypolite (Apr 15, 2018)

*Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition Review*​





_...look closely_​
*Introduction*

Hello all, I've been partaking in this hobby of ours for the past 14 years. Starting over a decade ago with a Grado SR60, and climbing up the ladder since then. My first amp was the Headroom Micro Amp, and I've slowly upgraded over the years, making a few big jumps in-between. I ultimately ended up on the Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold which has served me well, but I've always been interested in tube amps. The price/performance of solid state amps just outperformed all the cheaper tube amps IMO so I never got into them. Now that I've reached the upper end of headphone amplification I decided to make the jump to tubes. Enter the Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition!

*Equipment*

Headphones : Abyss Phi, Focal Utopia, Denon D5000, D7000+, Sennheiser HD6xx
Amps : Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold (LAu), Woo Audio WA33 EE, HeadRoom BUDA
DAC : Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, HeadRoom UDAC
Source : Computer, USB, Jriver
Cables : DHC Spore 4 Fusion + Interconnects, CAD USB Cable, JPS Labs Kaptivator Lite, JPS Labs AC-X Digital
Misc : Lane 315 Cinema Home Theater Recliner +Transducers
Transducers : ButtKicker LFE, 2 x ButtKicker BK4 Advanced (Stereo), Clark Synthesis Platinum

*Build Quality*

Before we get to how it sounds, the build quality is absolutely astonishing. A solid metal twin chassis housing the gorgeous tubes up top. The unit is solid and  heavy, I think it clocks it in at 65lbs. The finish is clean and precise and I really like the look of it. Overall a really well built and solid piece.

*Sound Quality*

Now let's get to how it sounds. I've run the amp on stock tubes for about 2 months now. In its stock form the amp is really good. Gobs of power, clean, precise, authoritative. It feels like a natural progression from my previously owned Dark Star and Liquid Gold. It retains the qualities of these very excellent solid state amps and adds that tube magic on top. Detail retrieval, resolutions, dynamics, all in-tact. I was initially apprehensive about going with a 2A3 design, because I didn’t want a sound that was dry or clinical, but I'm happy to say that is not the case. The amp is very much smooth, rich, and full bodied. I think the WA33 design has struck a really great balance between accuracy/resolution and euphonic tone. It's simply a highly resolving, accurate, yummy delicious sound. The amp is really clear, resolution and detail retrieval is amazing. It has the tube character, but very clear. The bass is tight, full, and impactful. The phi sound amazing on this amp. There is a bit of sibilance, but this has all but been removed with tube upgrades which I'll get to later on.
There's a gain control and impedance control nobs for high/low on each. With the Phi I run High Gain and toggle between high/low impedance depending on the genre. Low impedance offers a warmer sound and high offers a cleaner more powerful presentation. With the Utopia I run low on both. There is not hard and fast rule for these controls, I just played with them and settle on what sounds best.

My average listening session on this amp with the Phi is about 2-3 hours. It's hard to stop listening. Whiles performing critical listening of the amp and the new Phi, I've often found myself lost in the music and forgetting that I was performing a critical listening session for my review.
I must say, at around 200hrs on my abyss, and about 125hrs on the WA33, they sound absolutely incredible. In tracks that pair with the abyss well, i.e. clean well recorded tracks, they sounded marvelous. I've found myself saying "what was that?", and rewinding portions of tracks to re-listen. I'm hearing details I’ve never heard before, that combo gives such an intimate window into the music, while’s still being open, lifelike, and rich with the tube signature.

This Is my first tube amp, so I can't really compare it to anything other than what I’ve heard before. And what I can say is, it’s a huge step up from the Liquid Gold. The WA33 EE gave me the power of the Lau, the impact of the Lau, with the rich deep tones of tubes, all combined into 1 cohesive sound. Then turn up the performance 2-3 notches. This is all based on stock tubes.

I know the question on most folks minds is, "Is it really worth $15K!!!?". To put that question to rest as simply as I can, If you're a budget conscious headfier, look elsewhere. There are many great options for a fraction of the price that do an excellent job. Woo's own offerings have some great options, as well as any of the many great solid state amps out there. I cannot comment on the price of the Elite vs Standard as I haven't heard the standard, but I'm told it packs a lot of what the elite has for half the cost. Having said all that, if you do have the budget, this is a really excellent end game amp and I am happy with my purchase.

*Tube Options*

Now onto the part that makes tube amps a hell-of-a-lot of fun. Tube rolling!
My original intension was to run the amp on stock tubes for a year then look at upgrading. But……I couldn’t resist and wanted to extract the best out of the amp a lot sooner than I planned. So I began my tube hunt for various exotic NOS and new production tubes. That in of itself was a fun journey. I've learnt a lot about different tube types, variations, brands, etc etc etc. In addition to a lot of reading both on and off of head-fi, I've had some really great and educational conversations with several head-fiers that's helped me with my initial amp purchase as well as tube rolling options.

I've broken down the tube rolling options below and how the various tubes I've rolled affected the sound compared to stock.

*Rectifiers (5U4G / 274B):*




*Power (2A3):*

*
Drivers (6C45Pi):*


I'll update those tables as I collect more tubes, hopefully it's a useful resource for anyone that may be considering tube options for the WA33.

Thus far my primary tube config is RCA Mono + Takatuski + EH Drivers. When I get my hands on the WE and Elrog rectifiers I'll see which I like best to run as my main. I eventually plan to get my hands on some KR Audio HP Tubes and Maybe a set of AVVT. But I'll spread out my future tube purchases over the coming years.

*Summary*

Overall this is an excellent amp. Tube rolling is a hell of a lot of fun and there's a lot more fun to be had, to the detriment of my wallet! I think I've finally found my endgame amp, and the ability to modify the sound via tube rolling to suit my preference at any given period is awesome. Clean, precise, authoritative, rich, smooth, expansive sound, with a euphonic tone and quality that made me shed manly tears once some exotic tubes were rolled in. Paired with the Abyss Phi, this is truly a marvelous system.

*Special Thanks*

Special shout out to Xecuter and isquirrel, they've both been of great help. Also like to mention Mike and Jack Wu from Woo Audio, they were very forthcoming and accommodative of all my questions an inquiries before and after my purchase. Now enjoy the nerd-p0rn, I mean photos !

*Photoshoot*


----------



## 18inch

anyone know why Woo Audio's new version of WA6 and WA6SE went with 12de7 isnt of 6de7 route? seems like the choice of tube with these sockets are much more narrow...


----------



## joseph69

@matthewhypolite
Congratulations on your new beautiful amp!
Please buy or build a stand deserving of your gear!


----------



## Xecuter

Incredible gear @matthewhypolite ! Looking forward to hearing how you go with the NOS rectifiers!

Enjoy this amazing system in good health my friend!


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> @matthewhypolite
> Congratulations on your new beautiful amp!
> Please buy or build a stand deserving of your gear!



I'm building a massive L desk around the entire room to house my PC/Gear, i started with my headphone gear section first, but once it's done it will be 1 solid L-Shape desk going right around the room.


----------



## joseph69

Very good! Post some photos when it's done.
I built a simple but stable stand for my amps from 1-3/4 solid butcher block topped with a piece of 1/4" tempered glass & steel legs. 
The rest of my gear is on top a 1/8" aluminum plate mounted to my gas fireplace which has a separate duct inside forcing the heat out through the front vents so minimum (if any) heat reaches the top surface of the fireplace.


----------



## Violent_Sneeze

How long should a pair of Electro Harmonix 6C45Pi last? Have some in my WA7


----------



## matthewhypolite

Xecuter said:


> Incredible gear @matthewhypolite ! Looking forward to hearing how you go with the NOS rectifiers!
> 
> Enjoy this amazing system in good health my friend!



I've added the WE274B impressions to my review, see here:





Thus far i'm liking the NOS more. But ill roll the taks in a week or 2 and see how i like them.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

matthewhypolite said:


> I've added the WE274B impressions to my review, see here:
> 
> 
> 
> Thus far i'm liking the NOS more. But ill roll the taks in a week or 2 and see how i like them.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

Other than free shipping is there any other reason to order my new WA7 from Audio Advisor vs direct from Woo Audio?


----------



## musicman59

I was at Axpona this weekend and had the chance to listen to the WA33, WA33 Elite Edition and the new 3ES electrostatic amp. This is the fist time I have heard these 3 amps and I am very impressed. I am a former owner of a WA5-LE v1 that I have for a few years. I have not listen in detail to the v2 version but my assumption is the sound is the same just more power. The WA33 is a significant step forward in performance IMO. First I listened to the WA33 and thought it was excellent. Very powerful, dynamic, quite and musical then I moved to the WA33 Elite Edition (with stock tubes) and it was easy to notice an further improvement in performance. My jaw dropped when I listen to it with the Utopia (which I own) with the Kimber Axios Silver cable. OMG! It was the best dynamic set I have ever heard and something I was not expecting was the bass response out of the Utopia. I listened to David Gray "Sail Away" and Sing's "Thousand Years". I have never have heard and "feel" that deep bass out of the Utopia before.

With the WA33 Elite Edition even the HD800 sounded robust without loosing its soundstage magic.Also the best I have ever heard them.

The 3ES is based on 4 300B tubes so it does have that magic and provides the sweetness to the electrostatic headphones. The bass in the SR-009 is clearly improved. I personally prefer this amp based on my taste of sound over the BHSE with the SR-009.

Now, to start saving for a WA33 Elite Edition to come back to the Woo family!


----------



## twitch133

Just a few months ago, I started out with a Schiit Magni 3, and a pair of AD700x's. I never thought I would get into it this far... (I could not describe to you what the Woo does to sound, but I love it!)

A few other amps later, including trying to fix a broken Bravo Audio V1, and still not liking it after I got it working. I am now the proud owner of a brand new WA6 Gen 2, set up with a pair of HD650's and a Dacmagic plus. I even have a new set of tubes on the way, a Sophia 274B and a set of Sylvania, clear top, fat bottle 13FD7's.







The only catch is... I have sent an email to Woo, hoping it is more of a nuisance than an actual problem. The amp hums. Not through the headphones. But through the amp itself. Only while switched on, and it is a 60hz hum. Sounds exactly the same as the step-down transformers in the green utility pedestals on the side of the road. (Or, where I am all to familiar with the transformer hum from, is the distribution and switchgear rooms in buildings equipped with standby gen's)


----------



## SeeHear

twitch133 said:


> Just a few months ago, I started out with a Schiit Magni 3, and a pair of AD700x's. I never thought I would get into it this far... (I could not describe to you what the Woo does to sound, but I love it!)
> 
> A few other amps later, including trying to fix a broken Bravo Audio V1, and still not liking it after I got it working. I am now the proud owner of a brand new WA6 Gen 2, set up with a pair of HD650's and a Dacmagic plus. I even have a new set of tubes on the way, a Sophia 274B and a set of Sylvania, clear top, fat bottle 13FD7's.
> 
> ...



Good luck, pal. Be prepared to have to "prove" the amp is having a problem. I hope your experience is better than mine - the amps do sound great; but, getting any kind of assistance with a problem is a consistently unpleasant experience.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

SeeHear said:


> Good luck, pal. Be prepared to have to "prove" the amp is having a problem. I hope your experience is better than mine - the amps do sound great; but, getting any kind of assistance with a problem is a consistently unpleasant experience.


 Interesting.  I was under the impression that Woo's customer service was quite good.

Very close to pulling the trigger on a WA6 or WA7 by the end of the week.  Perhaps I need to rethink my position.


----------



## twitch133

SeeHear said:


> Good luck, pal. Be prepared to have to "prove" the amp is having a problem. I hope your experience is better than mine - the amps do sound great; but, getting any kind of assistance with a problem is a consistently unpleasant experience.




Oof.... That is not good to hear. Even more so for someone coming from an industry where the benefit of the doubt goes to the customer during warranty considerations, and we even help out with cost on out of warranty items on a case by case basis...

But, Like I said, it is more of a nuisance than anything, and as long as it does not prove a hazard to the life of the amp, or a fire hazard. I will happily run it with the hum. It is so quiet, that I have to listen for it, or be in a quiet room to hear it. Hopefully that is all it is, is a nuisance.


----------



## Csericks

I bought my first Woo about 10 years ago; I've never had anything but positive experiences with Woo and Woo products.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

twitch133 said:


> Oof.... That is not good to hear. Even more so for someone coming from an industry where the benefit of the doubt goes to the customer during warranty considerations, and we even help out with cost on out of warranty items on a case by case basis...
> 
> But, Like I said, it is more of a nuisance than anything, and as long as it does not prove a hazard to the life of the amp, or a fire hazard. I will happily run it with the hum. It is so quiet, that I have to listen for it, or be in a quiet room to hear it. Hopefully that is all it is, is a nuisance.




Did you try the headphone jack on the DAC?  I wonder if the hum could be coming from the DAC--->WA6?


----------



## twitch133 (Apr 17, 2018)

Ron Sherwood said:


> Did you try the headphone jack on the DAC?  I wonder if the hum could be coming from the DAC--->WA6?



It is actually an external hum. I hear it from the body of the amp, only with my headphones off. And it can still be heard it with them unplugged, and the RCA cables removed.

I know the physics behind it, and it is not a fault in larger transformers. But, I do not know if the transformers in the WA6 carry enough current to justify humming without another, potentially hazardous fault.

Edit... One of Woo's staff member's took the time to respond to my email after hours. He states that a very light transformer hum can be considered normal, and he would not be concerned by the hum that my WA6 exhibits, as the room has to be nearly silent to hear it.

And... A quick check of tracking, I get my Sophia tomorrow. I hate real time tracking. It has shown me exactly how impatient I really am.


----------



## joseph69

twitch133 said:


> The only catch is... I have sent an email to Woo, hoping it is more of a nuisance than an actual problem. The amp hums.


Congratulations on the WA6.
I had the same issue with transformer humming slightly with my 1st Gen WA6. The hum occurred on start up, but then slowly dissipated, and if it didn't, it was also dependent on the tubes I was using. I'd wait until I switch the tubes out before sending it into Woo to hear if it goes away, or decreases. I understand you concerns, and I agree it shouldn't hum, but it is a transformer so its magnetic fields may be causing the chassis to vibrate.


----------



## JoeDoe

Hey fellas, I recently picked up an older Maxxed WA6SE! Ironic that customer service is being discussed. The guys at Woo have been rather reluctant to provide a list of upgrades that the 'Maxxed' options included. Our communication just felt like they weren't really on my side...

I don't suppose any of you blokes could tell me what those upgrades included?


----------



## twitch133

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations on the WA6.
> I had the same issue with transformer humming slightly with my 1st Gen WA6. The hum occurred on start up, but then slowly dissipated, and if it didn't, it was also dependent on the tubes I was using. I'd wait until I switch the tubes out before sending it into Woo to hear if it goes away, or decreases. I understand you concerns, and I agree it shouldn't hum, but it is a transformer so its magnetic fields may be causing the chassis to vibrate.



I imagine the rectifier had the most to do with it? I am replacing the stock 5U4GB tomorrow with a Sophia 274B. I will have to drop a quick update as to if it makes any difference or not.

The stock 13DE7's will be getting swapped some time late this week or early next week too.


----------



## SeeHear

Ron Sherwood said:


> Interesting.  I was under the impression that Woo's customer service was quite good.
> 
> Very close to pulling the trigger on a WA6 or WA7 by the end of the week.  Perhaps I need to rethink my position.



They are great sounding amps. Most folks don't have a problem with them. But, if you do... I've written about my experiences dealing with Wu elsewhere in this thread. If you want more info, PM me. I'll give you all the gory details.


----------



## joseph69

twitch133 said:


> I imagine the rectifier had the most to do with it? I am replacing the stock 5U4GB tomorrow with a Sophia 274B. I will have to drop a quick update as to if it makes any difference or not.
> 
> The stock 13DE7's will be getting swapped some time late this week or early next week too.


Ye, the rectifier had the most to do with it. I never used the stock rectifier tube, I ordered the SP 274B at the same time and put it in immediately. Unfortunately, this was the so called "upgraded tube" which gave e the issue. Hopefully it's not the same in your case.


----------



## joseph69 (Apr 17, 2018)

JoeDoe said:


> Hey fellas, I recently picked up an older Maxxed WA6SE! Ironic that customer service is being discussed. The guys at Woo have been rather reluctant to provide a list of upgrades that the 'Maxxed' options included. Our communication just felt like they weren't really on my side...
> 
> I don't suppose any of you blokes could tell me what those upgrades included?


Congratulations!
I remember when I was ordering my WA6 I wanted it Maxxed, but they didn't offer the upgrade anymore. I believe part of it was due to the availability of Black Gate Caps. So I know this was one of the upgrades.


----------



## twitch133

joseph69 said:


> Ye, the rectifier had the most to do with it. I never used the stock rectifier tube, I ordered the SP 274B at the same time and put it in immediately. Unfortunately, this was the so called "upgraded tube" which gave e the issue. Hopefully it's not the same in your case.



Sophia dropped by today... I must say, she is quite the eye pleaser, and sounds great too. Plus... the Hum is gone. It must be something to do with the individual tube, matched with the transformer. On the AC side. Current draw, resonance... Something?


----------



## joseph69

twitch133 said:


> Sophia dropped by today... I must say, she is quite the eye pleaser, and sounds great too. Plus... the Hum is gone. It must be something to do with the individual tube, matched with the transformer. On the AC side. Current draw, resonance... Something?


Great to hear the hum is gone.
Yeah, I'm not sure why, but I know from my experience with different rectifier tubes the trans will hum. 
When you get the chance buy yourself a Brimar 5Z4GY...inexpensive and you'll probably prefer it over the SP.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

Woof!  Very nice.

How does it all sound?


----------



## twitch133

joseph69 said:


> Great to hear the hum is gone.
> Yeah, I'm not sure why, but I know from my experience with different rectifier tubes the trans will hum.
> When you get the chance buy yourself a Brimar 5Z4GY...inexpensive and you'll probably prefer it over the SP.



Yeah man, Kind of interesting. The only thing that I can come up with is the 5U4GB was drawing a little bit more current off of the AC side? On that note though, the SE 274B seems to have taken a little bit of gain off of the amp... But, may be confirmation bias (it is kind of hard to A/B tubes.) It seems to have tightened the bass up, and taken a little bit more the that SSSSSS'y, siblant edge off the highs.

I really love it when they can tame the highs like that. Due to years in the oilfield, working crew boat engine rooms. I already have issues with tinnitus, and ringing highs give me a headache.

I'll have to look into that one, I have already found a few on ebay, lol. But, I am planning on working on a collection of tubes to roll at will. (That AF 596 looks sexy, but I have a hard time stomaching 450 for a tube that I doubt would offer much improvement... It looks really 



Ron Sherwood said:


> Woof!  Very nice.
> 
> How does it all sound?



I am really happy with it. The new tube got in at about noon... it is now about 9, and I probably have 7.5 hours on it already, lol.

I have been going through most of my music with it. I find that the warmth that it brings to Orchestra is excellent (I replayed "This is Me, covered by "The Brooklyn Duo" at least 8 or 9 times). And, it tames the really annoying treble and cymbals in the 700's and 80's punk that I grew up on, but, it is really allowing me to see how truly bad the masters were from that genre and era.


----------



## Henley2

Just sold my Woo Audio Wa6 SE. Still doubting whether to go for a WA5 or Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold. I use them with HD 800s. Any opinions?


----------



## pippen99

Get both! I did.


Henley2 said:


> Just sold my Woo Audio Wa6 SE. Still doubting whether to go for a WA5 or Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold. I use them with HD 800s. Any opinions?


----------



## musicman59

If you have the money to spend on both then I would buy none and buy the WA33... I used to one a WA5LE and I am very familiar with the LG. IMO the WA33 is better than both.
I am putting a plan together to try to go for the WA33 Elite Edition. I tried it with the HD800 and Utopia. I have never heard those headphones sounding that good (I own both).


----------



## pippen99

Would that I had seen the WA33 coming two years ago when I purchased both.  Ours is a limited market and I would need to sell both for a reasonable return to afford a WA33 Elite.  I have not heard a WA33 but would be willing to buy on faith considering my experience with the WA5.


----------



## Ron Sherwood (Apr 19, 2018)

After much research, head scratching,spousal negotiations, I have ordered a new WA7,2nd Gen.

Woo was very responsive and patient with my questions and have impressed me with their service, so far.

 WOO, HOO!


----------



## KEV G

Hi, I'm really new to the valve/tube world, recently bought the Valhalla 2 and i'm liking what I'm hearing so thought I may go a little deeper in. I've seen a WA2 for sale for £550, wondering if thats a fair price, just waiting for the person to get back to me with how old it is and how many hours its done. Its had the $200 valve/tube upgrade also and he says its in excellent condition. Sorry if this info is somewhere in this thread, as I've just found it and there are quite a few posts on here. Rest assured, if I end up with the WA2 I'll be reading all the way start to finish. Any info/advice will be much appreciated, thanks


----------



## thecrow (Apr 21, 2018)

KEV G said:


> Hi, I'm really new to the valve/tube world, recently bought the Valhalla 2 and i'm liking what I'm hearing so thought I may go a little deeper in. I've seen a WA2 for sale for £550, wondering if thats a fair price, just waiting for the person to get back to me with how old it is and how many hours its done. Its had the $200 valve/tube upgrade also and he says its in excellent condition. Sorry if this info is somewhere in this thread, as I've just found it and there are quite a few posts on here. Rest assured, if I end up with the WA2 I'll be reading all the way start to finish. Any info/advice will be much appreciated, thanks


I have the wa2 and i lovr it. Its silky smooth. Great detail. Fantastic with my hd800.
So as per OTL amps you will be pretty much limited to higher impedance headphones.

My lcd2s work pretty well, not ideal though.

If it’s the same liating i saw the $200 tube upgrade is not a big upgrade so if you are looking for better upgrades it will cost you more (i don’t regret that at all) and the aound will vastly improve further and most of the upgrade tubes in that liating may end up being superfluous

My 2 cents

So in a nutshell ignore the upgraded tubes in the sale and only look at if you are wanting an amp for high impedance headphones. I won’t sell mine as long as i have my hd800....which i cant see myself selling either


----------



## iPaintCode

I've been eyeing the recently updated WA22 in Black or a WA6SE 2nd Gen from Woo Audio but not sure I want to buy balanced cables for the headphones I have now, could get pricey. I sold my silver WA7+TP combo last year and picked up a 2nd Gen WA7+TP this year and feels good to be back in the Woo Audio game, though I've been using my Chord Hugo 2 as DAC. I did upgrade the Power/Driver tubes: EHX Gold Pin from WA and been tube rolling with the WA7TP with 3 different sets. I wish they used a tube on the WA7 that had as many options as the TP has but you can't beat the form factors of the WA7/8.


----------



## KEV G

Hi fellas, regarding the WA2, the guy just got back to me and said it is 7 years old but only 10 hours run time. 7 years seems quite old to me, but on the other hand my Talk Electronics HiFi Amps are about 15 years old and still sound amazing. Being new to this world of valves/tubes I’m unsure of the lifespan of these amps. There doesn’t seem to be many of these amps for sale in the used ads, I’m thinking they’re that good that people tend to just keep em. Any thoughts would be once again greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Csericks

My WA2 is 6 or 7 years old, may have an average of about 10 hours per week and I have no thoughts of selling!


----------



## KEV G

Csericks said:


> My WA2 is 6 or 7 years old, may have an average of about 10 hours per week and I have no thoughts of selling!


Oh man, I’m so close to hitting the button,£550.00 seems like a really fair deal. So if I hit the button, I’ve got a lot of catching up to do on this thread  thanks for all your advice


----------



## audioadvocate (Apr 22, 2018)

Hello fellow Woo-owners,

I bought the WA22 a few months ago for use with my HD800s headphones.  This amp/headphone combination provides an aurally-holographic experience with great recordings.  I spend lots of time with classical music, which is a potent "tool" to evaluate the quality of electronics.  The 1st generation WA22 with the HD800s headphones would literally recreate the actual location of instruments in a full, 88-piece orchestra.  Very few non-classical recordings are so dependant upon width and depth of soundstage.  Solo jazz singers with just a few instruments on some older Chesky recordings allow for recreation of instrument positions in that soundstage, and allow for the "air" in recordings that has been talked about in "underground" audiophile journals like The Absolute Sound or Stereophile.  But if you want to experience the resolving power of this equipment, you need to use simple stereo or binaural mic techniques and avoid close-miked recordings.

My CD collection dates back to 1983.  I have listened to thousands of classical recordings over the years.  Many early releases were "close-miked" disasters, as it took recording engineers decades to "get it right."  But there are a few exceptions.  One recording that comes to mind the will reveal the resolving power of the WA22/HD800s combination is an early, 1984 DDD rendition of Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherezade, conducted by Charles Dutoit and the Montreal Symphony Orchestra (London/Decca/Polygram 410 253-2).  The violin solo sections and the ability of these components to handle massed strings, depth, and air is extraordinary.  This is an album that will cause goosebumps.







If you can get a copy of this CD, do it.  You will be amazed at the clarity and 3-dimensional nature of the recording, and because the recording is so well-done, you will hear just how good the WA22 (1st Generation) is.

Woo Audio obviously felt that there was always room for improvement with the release of the WA22 (2nd. gen) amplifier. I emailed Woo about whether they were offering upgrades for 1st generation owners, and they are not.  Apparently, because of the extensive point-to-point wiring in the WA22, an upgrade is not feasible and wouldn't be a good business decision.  I wonder if, from a sonic point of view, whether there would be much of a difference between the two amps.  Time and further reviews will tell.

My associated equipment:

OPPO UDP-205 Blu-Ray/CD player/Dual ES9038PRO DACs
Straightwire Rhapsody Balanced Interconnects
Sennheiser HD800s headphones/4-pinXLR cable
Sennheiser HD6XX via Massdrop
Archlinux computer/JRIVER media center 24 via USB/TOSLINK Optical outputs

At one point, I lived with the NAD M51 DAC for a month prior to receiving my OPPO UDP-205.  Both DACs are excellent with very subtle differences, but the holographic nature of the WA22/HD800s combo did not change and is extraordinary with either DAC.

The tubes I have in my WA22 are:
Sophia Princess 274B
Matched pair NOS Sylvania 6SN7 driver tubes (circa 1954)
Matched pair NOS Tung Sol 7236 power tubes (circa 1950-60 era)

(The amp originally was supplied with a no-name Chinese rectifier tube and Phillips JAN6080WC power tubes.  Changing these out to the current tube configuration just made things better.)

Good listening!


----------



## SeeHear

KEV G said:


> Hi fellas, regarding the WA2, the guy just got back to me and said it is 7 years old but only 10 hours run time. 7 years seems quite old to me, but on the other hand my Talk Electronics HiFi Amps are about 15 years old and still sound amazing. Being new to this world of valves/tubes I’m unsure of the lifespan of these amps. There doesn’t seem to be many of these amps for sale in the used ads, I’m thinking they’re that good that people tend to just keep em. Any thoughts would be once again greatly appreciated. Thanks




Hi,

I've had my WA2 about 5.5 - 6 years, with WAY more than 10 hours on it! The amp itself is like new - no, it sounds better than new. The only negative effects from age, as far as I have seen, is degradation of the tubes. If the tubes are only 10 hours in, this deal sounds like a no-brainer.


----------



## KEV G

Looks like I’m going to pick the WA2 up on Thursday morning, so as long as it’s in the condition he described, I’ll be back on this thread a lot more I guess and thanks again for any advice given.


----------



## thecrow

KEV G said:


> Looks like I’m going to pick the WA2 up on Thursday morning, so as long as it’s in the condition he described, I’ll be back on this thread a lot more I guess and thanks again for any advice given.


I hope all works well. 

Have fun tube rolling. 

Fyi: There is a LOT of info on 6dj8 tubes in the lyr rolling thread. Some of which I completely agree with and a lot recent stuff i don’t


----------



## KEV G

thecrow said:


> I hope all works well.
> 
> Have fun tube rolling.
> 
> Fyi: There is a LOT of info on 6dj8 tubes in the lyr rolling thread. Some of which I completely agree with and a lot recent stuff i don’t


Lol, tube rolling is gonna be a whole new world to me, so I’m gonna need plenty of tips and advice. I’ve thought about trying some different tubes on my Valhalla 2, but I’ve only had it for a short time and thought it best to get well accustomed to the sound quality as it is before I start confusing myself with different tubes 
Thanks again


----------



## Csericks

I think that you should take your time with rolling. IMHO there are many good options without getting into the highest $ tubes. I agree that some of the most expensive tubes may squeeze the very last drop of performance out of the WA2 but I also think that the sound produced by this amp is truly remarkable using some of the solid, but less expensive tubes. I've been using my WA2 for about 6 years mostly going back and forth between a couple of sets of tubes; those tubes are still going strong and I have enough spares of those tubes to outlive me. If I come across a good deal I'll add some more of the, supposedly, superior tubes but after many years I continue to be satisfied with what I have been using.  My suggestions may be the opposite of many others and, as such, perhaps should be ignored.


----------



## KEV G

Csericks said:


> I think that you should take your time with rolling. IMHO there are many good options without getting into the highest $ tubes. I agree that some of the most expensive tubes may squeeze the very last drop of performance out of the WA2 but I also think that the sound produced by this amp is truly remarkable using some of the solid, but less expensive tubes. I've been using my WA2 for about 6 years mostly going back and forth between a couple of sets of tubes; those tubes are still going strong and I have enough spares of those tubes to outlive me. If I come across a good deal I'll add some more of the, supposedly, superior tubes but after many years I continue to be satisfied with what I have been using.  My suggestions may be the opposite of many others and, as such, perhaps should be ignored.


Yep, I understand your way of thinking alright and I’m not about to ignore your opinion. I don’t think I’ll be going crazy with buying super expensive tubes, like you, if I come across a good deal, then I’ll take it and  see how it sounds. How much does the sq go up by in comparison to how much you spend and also if I’m content with a cheaper tube then that gives me more money to spend on music....happy days. Cheers


----------



## abvolt

KEV G said:


> Lol, tube rolling is gonna be a whole new world to me, so I’m gonna need plenty of tips and advice. I’ve thought about trying some different tubes on my Valhalla 2, but I’ve only had it for a short time and thought it best to get well accustomed to the sound quality as it is before I start confusing myself with different tubes
> Thanks again



I say you'll find tube rolling very enjoyable as I do, that's one of the reason's I got the wa22 with it's huge rolling options, you will notice sq changes from subtle to very striking differences it's well worth your time, one suggestion listen to your new amp with the stock tubes until you're very familiar with the stock sound then you'll really notice big changes when you do start rolling..enjoy


----------



## Contrails

Anyone got any internal pics of the WA33 amp? Not the elite one, the El cheapo version.


----------



## KEV G

So, picked up the WA2 today and just fired it up and all good. It’s only been on for about 20 minuets, couldn’t resist plugging the HD650s in and wow.... this thing is just what I was looking for. 
I also messaged Woo direct for some advice also, considering this is a seven year old amp, wasn’t really expecting a reply and was pleasantly surprised with the response I got. Sounds like they have a great customer care/service policy, which goes a long way with me. 
So my Valhalla is going to be rigged up to my power amp, so I can switch between that and the solid state pre-amp. The WA2 is going to be for my headphones.....happy days. Thanks people for all your comments in helping me decide to buy this amp, I am now a Woo fan for sure. 
I’m now going to go missing for a while, back to the first post on this thread and see what I can learn from it.


----------



## Csericks

Glad it sounds good to you; I sure enjoy mine. What tubes were included?


----------



## KEV G

Csericks said:


> Glad it sounds good to you; I sure enjoy mine. What tubes were included?


I have no idea lol, he said his father bought it New with the $200 tube upgrade. He bought it because he moved to Tenerife and didn’t want to annoy his neighbors with his HiFi, but the neighbors didn’t mind the HiFi, so the WA2 was put in a cupboard and forgotten about and if you could see his HiFi you would understand. His son was selling it for him and showed me some pictures, waaaay out of my price range and my HiFi is about £5k 
I really like his neighbors lol
I’ll have a look a the tubes in the morning and let you know what they are and you could let me know what you think, I would appreciate it and need to start learning these things. Cheers


----------



## Csericks

My opinion is certainly to be taken with a grain of salt but I'm happy to share what I think.


----------



## KEV G

Csericks said:


> My opinion is certainly to be taken with a grain of salt but I'm happy to share what I think.


I like salt lol
Cheers


----------



## Contrails

KEV G, the WA2 is supposed to be a good preamp too.  Along with tube upgrades, I would also look at upgrading the output capacitors.


----------



## audioadvocate

I just bought a pair of TungSol NOS "matched"421-A tubes from _*bangybang*_ tubes on eBay.  Turns out one of the two has significant bottom corrosion and one channel is 2/3 louder than the other.  The top on one of the tubes is not silvered completely like the other. They do NOT sound matched and I doubt that this is New Old Stock.  I'm returning the tubes but I'm going on three days with no response from the vendor.  Might need to get eBay in the act.

Anyone here have any experience with 5998 power tubes and the WA22?  Woo wants $400 for a NOS matched pair and they are otherwise in short supply.  I believe in having a backup set for each set of tubes...especially power tubes.


----------



## KEV G

Contrails said:


> KEV G, the WA2 is supposed to be a good preamp too.  Along with tube upgrades, I would also look at upgrading the output capacitors.


Oh man, changing capacitors, wouldn’t know how to go about that. More to learn about this tube game, thanks for the tip


----------



## thecrow

audioadvocate said:


> I just bought a pair of TungSol NOS "matched"421-A tubes from _*bangybang*_ tubes on eBay.  Turns out one of the two has significant bottom corrosion and one channel is 2/3 louder than the other.  The top on one of the tubes is not silvered completely like the other. They do NOT sound matched and I doubt that this is New Old Stock.  I'm returning the tubes but I'm going on three days with no response from the vendor.  Might need to get eBay in the act.
> 
> Anyone here have any experience with 5998 power tubes and the WA22?  Woo wants $400 for a NOS matched pair and they are otherwise in short supply.  I believe in having a backup set for each set of tubes...especially power tubes.


Is that another account for old guy radiola by any chance?


----------



## attmci

thecrow said:


> Is that another account for old guy radiola by any chance?


YES.


----------



## zeroduke

thecrow said:


> Is that another account for old guy radiola by any chance?


It seems so


----------



## thecrow

zeroduke said:


> It seems so


----------



## attmci

This top scammer should be banned. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/302670080803?rmvSB=true

This is a $10 tube several years ago.


----------



## 18inch

hi all, has anyone tried the Sophia Aqua 274b with the wa6 by any chance? am curious to know how it compares to the popular  Sophia Mesh


----------



## abvolt

attmci said:


> This top scammer should be banned.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/302670080803?rmvSB=true
> 
> This is a $10 tube several years ago.


Wow high priced I paid 27. for one like a year ago plus sq not all that good imo..


----------



## attmci

abvolt said:


> Wow high priced I paid 27. for one like a year ago plus sq not all that good imo..



Worth about $35 today.


----------



## KEV G

Hi peoples of Woo, forgive me if this has been answered in this thread already as I’m a new Woo person as of Thursday and absolutely loving my WA2. I’m trying to work my way through the thread from the start and only a few pages in. My question is how well do the LCD 2 pair up with the WA2. I’m not going to start tube rolling for a couple  of months at least as I’m new to this tube business. It had the $200.00 tube upgrade when it was originally purchased by its previous owner 7 years ago. Thanks again for your thoughts.


----------



## flea22

Hey guys, interested in upgrading from my wa7 tp to another woo amp. Has anyone owned this amp and upgraded? Was it worth it? I have fallen out of love with the fireflies, the dac has completely stop working. So I went all out the other day and bought a chord qutest and using that with the wa7 at the moment. But now 2 leds that light the tubes in the power supply stop working in 10 mins use of the amp, now this is only a cosmetic issue but it drives me crazy. And Im in Australia so it will cost a fortune to send it to the us to fix. Was looking at the wa2 over the wa22 because I dont use balanced interconnects. Would a wa2 be a upgraded over the wa7? Or should I be looking higher up like a wa5 cheap version?


----------



## thecrow

KEV G said:


> Hi peoples of Woo, forgive me if this has been answered in this thread already as I’m a new Woo person as of Thursday and absolutely loving my WA2. I’m trying to work my way through the thread from the start and only a few pages in. My question is how well do the LCD 2 pair up with the WA2. I’m not going to start tube rolling for a couple  of months at least as I’m new to this tube business. It had the $200.00 tube upgrade when it was originally purchased by its previous owner 7 years ago. Thanks again for your thoughts.


Though probably not ideal and others do not like older lcd2 with their amp i really enjoy mine. It’s the 2016 version which i believe is still the latest version and i have no impulse to look for another amp specifically for the lcd2. 

Its impedance is (just?) high enough and there is enough power from the wa2 for this to work


----------



## KEV G

thecrow said:


> Though probably not ideal and others do not like older lcd2 with their amp i really enjoy mine. It’s the 2016 version which i believe is still the latest version and i have no impulse to look for another amp specifically for the lcd2.
> 
> Its impedance is (just?) high enough and there is enough power from the wa2 for this to work


Thanks for the info, I think I’ll try em out at CanJam in London or if I go to the HiFi Lounge sooner I could bring my amp in and try it out. It’s a great place and run by great people.


----------



## thecrow

KEV G said:


> Thanks for the info, I think I’ll try em out at CanJam in London or if I go to the HiFi Lounge sooner I could bring my amp in and try it out. It’s a great place and run by great people.


Yes. Definitely look at the option of taking your amp in. And even your dac. 

Let us know how you go


----------



## abvolt

Leigh Quigg said:


> Hey guys, interested in upgrading from my wa7 tp to another woo amp. Has anyone owned this amp and upgraded? Was it worth it? I have fallen out of love with the fireflies, the dac has completely stop working. So I went all out the other day and bought a chord qutest and using that with the wa7 at the moment. But now 2 leds that light the tubes in the power supply stop working in 10 mins use of the amp, now this is only a cosmetic issue but it drives me crazy. And Im in Australia so it will cost a fortune to send it to the us to fix. Was looking at the wa2 over the wa22 because I dont use balanced interconnects. Would a wa2 be a upgraded over the wa7? Or should I be looking higher up like a wa5 cheap version?



I used to own the wa7/tp it was good but the dac that woo uses is very lacking, add a better dac to wa7 you'll see right away what I talking about..enjoy


----------



## flea22

abvolt said:


> I used to own the wa7/tp it was good but the dac that woo uses is very lacking, add a better dac to wa7 you'll see right away what I talking about..enjoy



Cheers, I am using a chord qutest dac with the wa7 atm. And it sounds good. But I still have a upgrade itch.


----------



## abvolt

Well I can't help with the wa2 never heard one but I sure do like your dac very nice indeed..


----------



## flea22

abvolt said:


> Well I can't help with the wa2 never heard one but I sure do like your dac very nice indeed..



Thanks, it really is a great dac, would you say the wa22 was a big step up from your wa7?


----------



## abvolt

You bet in a big way I really enjoy my wa22 over the wa7/tp plus rolling options are huge, here's a thread you should look at if you haven't already. --> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22.615810/


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

In my comparison between the wa6 and the wa6se I found that out of the box the se signature is
A lot brighter than the wa6 I’m not sure if it’s the extra gain or if the wa6se just needs to settle more
Can anyone tell me what changes there are after burn in and if the wa6se settles or becomes warmer
After say 300 hrs .

Cheers


----------



## joseph69

I know I sound like a track on repeat, but +/-5yrs ago I sold my WA6 to 'upgrade' to the SE and totally regretted it. I quickly sold the SE and bought another WA6 and couldn't have been happier. Using the same tubes, I felt the WA6 had plenty of power and a warmer sound signature with many more tube rolling options and took up less real estate as well. I even mentioned that the SE sounded like a SS amp too me, unlike the WA6.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

joseph69 said:


> I know I sound like a track on repeat, but +/-5yrs ago I sold my WA6 to 'upgrade' to the SE and totally regretted it. I quickly sold the SE and bought another WA6 and couldn't have been happier. Using the same tubes, I felt the WA6 had plenty of power and a warmer sound signature with many more tube rolling options and took up less real estate as well. I even mentioned that the SE sounded like a SS amp too me, unlike the WA6.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

Really enjoying my WA7 2nd gen so far.

Only about 20 hours use to date.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

Sorry to hear that but I'm quickly getting the feeling that I'm feeling the same way the wa6 sounds a lot more warmer than the se, when I purchased the se I presumed that it had the same warmth but in saying that the overall presentation and dynamics on the se are better and with a larger soundstage too , but at the end of the day the wa6 was in my opinion more emotionally involving and drew you in more , I'm lucky I still have my wa6 so I could always switch back " giving the time for the se to break in properly before I slit my wrists lol .


----------



## audioadvocate

Leigh Quigg said:


> Hey guys, interested in upgrading from my wa7 tp to another woo amp. Has anyone owned this amp and upgraded? Was it worth it? I have fallen out of love with the fireflies, the dac has completely stop working. So I went all out the other day and bought a chord qutest and using that with the wa7 at the moment. But now 2 leds that light the tubes in the power supply stop working in 10 mins use of the amp, now this is only a cosmetic issue but it drives me crazy. And Im in Australia so it will cost a fortune to send it to the us to fix. Was looking at the wa2 over the wa22 because I dont use balanced interconnects. Would a wa2 be a upgraded over the wa7? Or should I be looking higher up like a wa5 cheap version?



The WA22 has both balanced and single-ended connections.  I was also considering the WA2 but something told me to go for the 22. Then a friend of mine told me about a friend of his who had the wa2. I had the opportunity to listen to it for a few minutes. I had heard the wa22 a few months earlier, but auditory memory is usually not good over time for us humans.  With my HD800s using the unbalanced cable, the wa2 sounded great.  My son has a single ended headphone amp and swears by single ended.  I elected to go with the wa22 as my hd800s came with a 4-pin XLR cable and I had Straightwire Rhapsody (silver) balanced interconnects from a prior old Krell Reference 64 DAC that I sold with a Krell CD transport in the early 2000's.  If I had to come up with a difference between the WA2 and 22 (1st Gen.), I'd say that the 22 seemed a bit quieter with a slight bit more dynamic range, and a slight bit more high-end detail.  But was it worth hundreds more? Tough to say.  The new WA22 (2nd Gen) might be different.....maybe better...so if price is not much of a consideration, maybe a listen to the new wa22 would be worthwhile.

I have always subscribed to balanced over single-ended.  Even if there is no difference in noise floor, S/N ratio, or dynamic range, if a connector accidentally was pulled out with the volume up, the amplified resulting DC current could fry a woofer or tweeter or crossover or all three.  When I had dual Krell MDA500 amps driving my old Thiel CS5i loudspeakers, a single-ended hookup high in the audio signal chain with a sudden disconnect would have been catastrophic.  But not so with safer balanced Neutrik XLR-terminated interconnects.  I suspect that headphone drivers are a bit less vulnerable to high amperage spikes, however. In the 1990's,  I used to own the old Stax electrotatic headphones with the ST-1 amp that had one tube....and single-ended was just excellent. 

i inquired about the new WA22 but Woo told me that the changes in the amp's circuit topology required tedious point-to-point soldering and that no upgrades of the 1st Gen to 2nd Gen were planned or possible.  I'm happy with the older wa22.  The high-end audio bug bit me years ago....always striving for better...more....finer....but the wound from that expensive bug bite has healed for me.  If a used wa22 pops up, give it a listen.


----------



## flea22 (May 8, 2018)

audioadvocate said:


> The WA22 has both balanced and single-ended connections.  I was also considering the WA2 but something told me to go for the 22. Then a friend of mine told me about a friend of his who had the wa2. I had the opportunity to listen to it for a few minutes. I had heard the wa22 a few months earlier, but auditory memory is usually not good over time for us humans.  With my HD800s using the unbalanced cable, the wa2 sounded great.  My son has a single ended headphone amp and swears by single ended.  I elected to go with the wa22 as my hd800s came with a 4-pin XLR cable and I had Straightwire Rhapsody (silver) balanced interconnects from a prior old Krell Reference 64 DAC that I sold with a Krell CD transport in the early 2000's.  If I had to come up with a difference between the WA2 and 22 (1st Gen.), I'd say that the 22 seemed a bit quieter with a slight bit more dynamic range, and a slight bit more high-end detail.  But was it worth hundreds more? Tough to say.  The new WA22 (2nd Gen) might be different.....maybe better...so if price is not much of a consideration, maybe a listen to the new wa22 would be worthwhile.
> 
> I have always subscribed to balanced over single-ended.  Even if there is no difference in noise floor, S/N ratio, or dynamic range, if a connector accidentally was pulled out with the volume up, the amplified resulting DC current could fry a woofer or tweeter or crossover or all three.  When I had dual Krell MDA500 amps driving my old Thiel CS5i loudspeakers, a single-ended hookup high in the audio signal chain with a sudden disconnect would have been catastrophic.  But not so with safer balanced Neutrik XLR-terminated interconnects.  I suspect that headphone drivers are a bit less vulnerable to high amperage spikes, however. In the 1990's,  I used to own the old Stax electrotatic headphones with the ST-1 amp that had one tube....and single-ended was just excellent.
> 
> i inquired about the new WA22 but Woo told me that the changes in the amp's circuit topology required tedious point-to-point soldering and that no upgrades of the 1st Gen to 2nd Gen were planned or possible.  I'm happy with the older wa22.  The high-end audio bug bit me years ago....always striving for better...more....finer....but the wound from that expensive bug bite has healed for me.  If a used wa22 pops up, give it a listen.



Big thanks for the reply, and your comparison between the wa2 and the wa22, it sounds like the wa22 sound is more suited for my sound taste. If I go with the wa22 it will be used in single ended mode with my chord qutest and lcd 3s that I love. Lucky I have no small children or pets that could pull out leads while the amp is in operation.

It seems like a good time to buy the wa22 new, with it being upgraded to 2nd gen. Would love to know if there is any sq difference with gen1 and gen2.

So now I have ruled out the wa2, I am in a toss up between the wa22 gen2 and the wa5 le. I really want a end game amp that will keep me happy for a long time in the foreseeable future. (im sure a lot of people say this, lol).

Also would like to know if the wa22 or wa5 can be open up with allen keys? I ask this just in case in the future it might need some repairs. My wa7 uses some strange bolt I cant open, And im sure I could fix my no led light problem with a simple solder.


----------



## attmci (May 8, 2018)

Leigh Quigg said:


> Big thanks for the reply, and your comparison between the wa2 and the wa22, it sounds like the wa22 sound is more suited for my sound taste. If I go with the wa22 it will be used in single ended mode with my chord qutest and lcd 3s that I love. Lucky I have no small children or pets that could pull out leads while the amp is in operation.
> 
> It seems like a good time to buy the wa22 new, with it being upgraded to 2nd gen. Would love to know if there is any sq difference with gen1 and gen2.
> 
> ...



WA22 likes balanced source.

WA22-2 was just introduced recently, with a price hike of $500.

Glad you like your LCD-3. Have you ever had problem with the drivers? The other interested thing I observed is ppl in the 800 and LCD-3 threads always have very different opinions.


----------



## flea22

attmci said:


> WA22 likes balanced source.
> 
> WA22-2 was just introduced recently, with a price hike of $500.
> 
> Glad you like your LCD-3. Have you ever had problem with the drivers? The other interested thing I observed is ppl in the 800 and LCD-3 threads always have very different opinions.



I've had my lcd 3s for around a year now and still haven't had a driver fail, and that is with daily use, I also use them for gaming. So I still have 2 years warranty on the drivers. I want to use the lcd 3s as much as possible inside the warranty time, just in case a driver fails. But one thing that sucks about audeze is you will always have driver fail in the back of your mind. 

Looking at the wa22 on the woo site say "Phase Splitter for use with unbalanced components" . Don't know if this feature brings single ended up to the same quality as balanced.


----------



## JLoud

I have a WA5 le v2 with a Schiit Yggy. Running the Yggy balanced into the WA5. I use the LCD 3 and 4 as well as a pair of Utopia's with this set up. I absolutely love the amp. Beautiful sound stage and great detail and tone. The WA5 puts out 8 watts out of both balanced and SE jacks. While it is a single ended amp the balanced jack is for convenience. While I feel going balanced from a DAC is worth it.(provided dac is hardware balanced. Like the Yggy.) I don't really hear any difference between balanced and SE on amps such as the Jotunheim. But if wonderful, full, detailed midrange is important, the WA5 is definitely worth a listen.  Huge step up from my WA6 se.


----------



## JLoud

Also recommend Emmission Labs tubes. I have the 5U4G rectifiers and the 300B's. Very nice.


----------



## reeltime

JLoud said:


> I have a WA5 le v2 with a Schiit Yggy. Running the Yggy balanced into the WA5. I use the LCD 3 and 4 as well as a pair of Utopia's with this set up. I absolutely love the amp. Beautiful sound stage and great detail and tone. The WA5 puts out 8 watts out of both balanced and SE jacks. While it is a single ended amp the balanced jack is for convenience. While I feel going balanced from a DAC is worth it.(provided dac is hardware balanced. Like the Yggy.) I don't really hear any difference between balanced and SE on amps such as the Jotunheim. But if wonderful, full, detailed midrange is important, the WA5 is definitely worth a listen.  Huge step up from my WA6 se.



Can you explain how you are running balanced outputs into unbalanced inputs? I'm not tracking something. The WA5 is single ended. It can't 'do' balanced.


----------



## JLoud

The WA5 has balanced inputs that are summed internally.


----------



## JLoud

Yes the balanced inputs and output are for convenience. But according to Schiit, they recommended rather strongly, to use balanced output from the yggy. I tried SE and balanced out of Yggy to WA5. I did prefer the balanced. The WA5 takes the balanced input and converts to SE. And does it very well. WA5 is SE, just capable of accepting both types of signal. The whole balanced vs SE is way overblown. But just go with what sounds best to you. That's what this hobby is all about, personal audio nirvana.


----------



## nathanoakes (May 18, 2018)

Got my Sophia 274B in my WA6SE tonight.  Here's a long exposure of its glow!


----------



## Ralf Hutter

nathanoakes said:


> Got my Sophia 274B in my WA6SE tonight.  Here's a long exposure of its glow!



Oh, that's nice! 

Thanks for my new screensaver!


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## nathanoakes

Ralf Hutter said:


> Oh, that's nice!
> 
> Thanks for my new screensaver!



Hey no problem!


----------



## Maalis (May 21, 2018)

Are 12SN7-->13DE7 adapters identical to 6SN7-->6DE7 adapters?

edit: Nevermind, got an answer from Woo already


----------



## TraneTime

nathanoakes said:


> Got my Sophia 274B in my WA6SE tonight.  Here's a long exposure of its glow!


This is now my work computers wallpaper! Thanks for the great pic!


----------



## Feedbacker

Maalis said:


> Are 12SN7-->13DE7 adapters identical to 6SN7-->6DE7 adapters?
> 
> edit: Nevermind, got an answer from Woo already



I'm interested in the answer? Are they?


----------



## Maalis

Feedbacker said:


> I'm interested in the answer? Are they?


Yes.


----------



## audioadvocate

nathanoakes said:


> Got my Sophia 274B in my WA6SE tonight.  Here's a long exposure of its glow!



Beautiful photo.  I love what the Sophia Princess did to my amp's sound stage and low end.  I know that the rectifier tube "rectifies" AC to provide the DC rail voltages, but I was very surprised that a tube not actually in the audio amplification chain could make such a difference (from the stock Chinese tube supplied).


----------



## Rhamnetin

JLoud said:


> Yes the balanced inputs and output are for convenience. But according to Schiit, they recommended rather strongly, to use balanced output from the yggy. I tried SE and balanced out of Yggy to WA5. I did prefer the balanced. The WA5 takes the balanced input and converts to SE. And does it very well. WA5 is SE, just capable of accepting both types of signal. The whole balanced vs SE is way overblown. But just go with what sounds best to you. That's what this hobby is all about, personal audio nirvana.



That suggests that the Yggy's XLR outputs are better for other reasons I guess.

Anyway, I'll be joining this club very soon, getting the same exact amp as you actually my good sir. But are good rectifier tubes for under $200 or even $250 (pair) hard to find now or what? Sheesh.


----------



## joseph69

Any impressions between the WA22 & WA33 (standard)?


----------



## joseph69

This morning I pulled the trigger on a WA33 (standard) which should be here within the first week of June. I Did read some impressions about the WA33 (standard) from some of the CanJams, and all were very positive. I've owned my WA6 for +/-6yrs now, and I still enjoy it very much, so I'm thinking I can't go wrong.


----------



## phase0

I heard the WA33 at the CanJam and it's impressive. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> I heard the WA33 at the CanJam and it's impressive. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.


Thanks! 
This is exactly what I'm afraid of.


----------



## koven

joseph69 said:


> This morning I pulled the trigger on a WA33 (standard) which should be here within the first week of June. I Did read some impressions about the WA33 (standard) from some of the CanJams, and all were very positive. I've owned my WA6 for +/-6yrs now, and I still enjoy it very much, so I'm thinking I can't go wrong.



Look forward to hearing impressions. What source/headphones will you be using?


----------



## joseph69

koven said:


> Look forward to hearing impressions. What source/headphones will you be using?


Mainly for the Utopia, but check out my profile which has my other headphones listed.


----------



## abvolt

joseph69 said:


> This morning I pulled the trigger on a WA33 (standard) which should be here within the first week of June. I Did read some impressions about the WA33 (standard) from some of the CanJams, and all were very positive. I've owned my WA6 for +/-6yrs now, and I still enjoy it very much, so I'm thinking I can't go wrong.



Wow lucky you dude congrats, be sure to post some pics, everything I've read about that amp is "it's simply amazing sounding"..enjoy


----------



## Majestiic

joseph69 said:


> This morning I pulled the trigger on a WA33 (standard) which should be here within the first week of June. I Did read some impressions about the WA33 (standard) from some of the CanJams, and all were very positive. I've owned my WA6 for +/-6yrs now, and I still enjoy it very much, so I'm thinking I can't go wrong.



Congrats. I just received my WA33 about a month ago after hearing it at socal canjam. I just had to have one after hearing it and I was coming from the WA22. I mainly use my Utopias and LCD3 with it and sometimes my LCD4. Ive never heard the WA6 but I'm pretty sure you did not go wrong in your decision. Enjoy!


----------



## Contrails

Majestiic said:


> Congrats. I just received my WA33 about a month ago after hearing it at socal canjam. I just had to have one after hearing it and I was coming from the WA22. I mainly use my Utopias and LCD3 with it and sometimes my LCD4. Ive never heard the WA6 but I'm pretty sure you did not go wrong in your decision. Enjoy!



How would you compare the sound between the two? And what headphones are you using it with? Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

abvolt said:


> Wow lucky you dude congrats, be sure to post some pics, everything I've read about that amp is "it's simply amazing sounding"..enjoy





Majestiic said:


> Congrats. I just received my WA33 about a month ago after hearing it at socal canjam. I just had to have one after hearing it and I was coming from the WA22. I mainly use my Utopias and LCD3 with it and sometimes my LCD4. Ive never heard the WA6 but I'm pretty sure you did not go wrong in your decision. Enjoy!



Thank you both very much!
I'll definitely be posting photos as well as my impressions.
Thanks for your positive post on my blind purchase. I've read pretty much the same reaction from everyone who has demoed the WA33 at the CanJam events.


----------



## filip sebastian

Hello,for my WA6,what do you recommend: Mullard GZ32  https://www.ebay.com/i/262293544641?rmvSB=true   or  GZ32 Miniwatt  https://tubeworldexpress.com/collec...55-62-40-and-62-40-small-rattle-inside-base-1  ?


----------



## Contrails (May 27, 2018)

Millard GZ32 is good but that price is a RIP off.


----------



## nathanoakes

audioadvocate said:


> Beautiful photo.  I love what the Sophia Princess did to my amp's sound stage and low end.  I know that the rectifier tube "rectifies" AC to provide the DC rail voltages, but I was very surprised that a tube not actually in the audio amplification chain could make such a difference (from the stock Chinese tube supplied).



I had the same reaction!  I did have a handful of tubes when I bought the amp, among them were a ShuGang 274B, a couple of General Electric (I think) 274Bs, and a Brimar 5Z4G or something like that.  I settled on the Brimar being my favourite, and then the Sophia blew me away.  I have the Sennheiser HD800, which I applied the SDR mod to, which lowers the soundstage a little bit.  The Sophia opened it back up, and made me remove the mod.  Apparently there's an EML 274B which is supposed to be even better, but way more expensive.  I'll stick with the Sophia for now


----------



## nathanoakes

As a side note, does anyone have any experience with the Sylvania 6DN7 on a WA6SE?  I just got mine and some tube adapters (Admittedly some cheaper ones from Ebay instead of the Woo ones) and there's a prominent hum to them for some reason.  This didn't happen with any of my other power/driver tubes and the 6SE was a completely silent amp.  

Here is the link to the adapters I bought, for reference.  The hum is in both channels so I doubt it's a faulty tube.  Any ideas?


----------



## joseph69

Probably the tubes, unfortunately.


----------



## Badas

nathanoakes said:


> As a side note, does anyone have any experience with the Sylvania 6DN7 on a WA6SE?  I just got mine and some tube adapters (Admittedly some cheaper ones from Ebay instead of the Woo ones) and there's a prominent hum to them for some reason.  This didn't happen with any of my other power/driver tubes and the 6SE was a completely silent amp.
> 
> Here is the link to the adapters I bought, for reference.  The hum is in both channels so I doubt it's a faulty tube.  Any ideas?



^
Yeah! I agree with the comment above. An adapter either works or it doesn't. Price is irrelevant. 
Some tubes just don't play nice. No reason for it as well. You can get tubes of the same variant and some will play nice while others won't.


----------



## nathanoakes

joseph69 said:


> Probably the tubes, unfortunately.





Badas said:


> ^
> Yeah! I agree with the comment above. An adapter either works or it doesn't. Price is irrelevant.
> Some tubes just don't play nice. No reason for it as well. You can get tubes of the same variant and some will play nice while others won't.



Yeah, I thought the same about the adapters.  It's pretty much a pin to pin conversion, so shouldn't interfere too much.  Ahh that's annoying.  I guess I'll keep looking


----------



## JLoud

I am running a pair of Sylvania 6DN7's in my WA6SE right now. Very quite. Can't say dead silent, but close. Of course with higher impedence phones they are silent.


----------



## nathanoakes

JLoud said:


> I am running a pair of Sylvania 6DN7's in my WA6SE right now. Very quite. Can't say dead silent, but close. Of course with higher impedence phones they are silent.



I'm using the HD800, so quite high impedance.  I've messaged the seller of the tubes.  Shame they weren't perfect on the first try.  Where did you get yours from?


----------



## abvolt

Here's a deal for anyone looking for a 274b -->https://www.ebay.com/p/Western-Electric-274B-Vintage-Tube/166830105


----------



## JLoud

I got the tubes direct from Woo. Expensive, but you are assured of top notch quality.


----------



## KC-130

JLoud said:


> I am running a pair of Sylvania 6DN7's in my WA6SE right now. Very quite. Can't say dead silent, but close. Of course with higher impedence phones they are silent.


When your SE is not being dead silent are you hearing a hiss... or is it more of a hum ?
I own the WA7's but I'm considering an upgrade that will be tolerable for my tinnitus, which I've had most of my life.


----------



## JLoud

When I say not dead silent it is very low I guess hiss. But you can only hear it with the volume turned up and no music playing. And only with low impedance phones. With my LCD-3 I can never hear it. With my Utopia very slightly.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> When I say not dead silent it is very low I guess hiss. But you can only hear it with the volume turned up and no music playing. And only with low impedance phones. With my LCD-3 I can never hear it. With my Utopia very slightly.


This is my main concern about my incoming WA33.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> This is my main concern about my incoming WA33.


There usually is some hissing from pure tube amps.  I owned the WA5 at one time and did have hissing with all of my headphones.  I could usually adjust the POWER, IMPEDENCE, and LEVEL knobs and get it to a point that it was no longer there.  Some tubes will always have hissing though.  I had a Tung-sol 6F8G tube that always hissed no matter what I did.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> There usually is some hissing from pure tube amps.  I owned the WA5 at one time and did have hissing with all of my headphones.  I could usually adjust the POWER, IMPEDENCE, and LEVEL knobs and get it to a point that it was no longer there.  Some tubes will always have hissing though.  I had a Tung-sol 6F8G tube that always hissed no matter what I did.


I know, I've had/have this experience with my WA6 depending on the tubes, I'm using, and it is quite annoying. Annoying to the point that I don't even use those tubes anymore, which was a total waste of money for me. Like you mentioned about your WA5, at leastI'll be all to adjust the power/impedance/level with the WA33.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> I know, I've had/have this experience with my WA6 depending on the tubes, I'm using, and it is quite annoying. Annoying to the point that I don't even use those tubes anymore, which was a total waste of money for me. Like you mentioned about your WA5, at leastI'll be all to adjust the power/impedance/level with the WA33.


I have to say that the hissing wasn't that bad though.  The WA5 was VERY usable and tweakable so it didn't hiss.  I think the WA5 was the best tube headphone amp that I've owned.

Now the Apex Pinnacle2 is the best headphone amp I've heard.  The preamp is incredible too.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I have to say that the hissing wasn't that bad though.  The WA5 was VERY usable and tweakable so it didn't hiss.  I think the WA5 was the best tube headphone amp that I've owned.
> 
> Now the Apex Pinnacle2 is the best headphone amp I've heard.  The preamp is incredible too.


I'm keeping my fingers are crossed. Never thought about the Apex Pinnacle, but I do see it's now the 2 or Ultra.


----------



## jerick70

joseph69 said:


> I'm keeping my fingers are crossed. Never thought about the Apex Pinnacle, but I do see it's now the 2 or Ultra.


I was included in the tour that Todd offered for the Pinnacle2.  It is an awesome amp.  I really miss it.  I didn't listen to the Ultra version though.

Well I'm a bit off topic here.  Let's bring the conversation back around to the WA33.  I've heard it is an incredible amp too.  I've not had the chance to listen to it though.


----------



## joseph69

jerick70 said:


> I was included in the tour that Todd offered for the Pinnacle2.  It is an awesome amp.  I really miss it.  I didn't listen to the Ultra version though.
> 
> Well I'm a bit off topic here.  Let's bring the conversation back around to the WA33.  I've heard it is an incredible amp too.  I've not had the chance to listen to it though.


Everyone who has heard it or owns it seems to have the same (incredible) opinion about the WA33.
I'll be giving y impressions as best I can along with photos after receiving it.


----------



## mahesvara

@joseph69, my WA33 does not hiss at all. The only non-stock tube I have on it is the Takatsuki 274B.


----------



## Contrails

My Wa22 doesnt hiss either.


----------



## joseph69

mahesvara said:


> @joseph69, my WA33 does not hiss at all. The only non-stock tube I have on it is the Takatsuki 274B.


Good to know. My main concern is spending the money on 'upgraded power/driver tubes' and having the issue.



Contrails said:


> My Wa22 doesnt hiss either.


 Yeah, it depends on which tubes I'm using...sometimes I have the issue, sometimes I don't.


----------



## dstubked

I just sold my WA22 and will be making the switch to a WA5-LE. 

Just wondering if the Mullards ECC35 plays well with the WA5? I love those tubes on my WA22.

What about good 300Bs that don't cost an arm or leg?

In terms of tube rolling on the WA5, which set of tubes when changed will give the most noticeable difference?

Thanks all!


----------



## musicman59

joseph69 said:


> This is my main concern about my incoming WA33.


I spent sometime with the WA33 Elite Edition at Axpona using the Focal Utopia which are very sensitive and the amp was death quiet. I don't think you need to worry about hiss with the WA33.


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> I spent sometime with the WA33 Elite Edition at Axpona using the Focal Utopia which are very sensitive and the amp was death quiet. I don't think you need to worry about hiss with the WA33.


Great to hear. Thanks for the reassurance. Hopefully I'll know sooner than later.


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> I spent sometime with the WA33 Elite Edition at Axpona using the Focal Utopia which are very sensitive and the amp was death quiet. I don't think you need to worry about hiss with the WA33.


Was is this the 'stock' tubes or the 'upgraded tubes'?


----------



## musicman59

joseph69 said:


> Was is this the 'stock' tubes or the 'upgraded tubes'?


Stock tubes and still sounded impressive to the point that I going to try to raise the funds to order one and get back into the Woo family again.


----------



## JLoud

For 300b tubes that don't cost a fortune, might want to look at EML tubes. I picked up a pair for $690 with shipping. From Tubesusa.com. Been using them for about 6 months. Really like them.


----------



## Majestiic

joseph69 said:


> Good to know. My main concern is spending the money on 'upgraded power/driver tubes' and having the issue.
> 
> Yeah, it depends on which tubes I'm using...sometimes I have the issue, sometimes I don't.



My WA33 is silent as well with stock tubes and when using upgraded driver tubes and rectifier. I have yet to change the power tubes.


----------



## joseph69

Majestiic said:


> My WA33 is silent as well with stock tubes and when using upgraded driver tubes and rectifier. I have yet to change the power tubes.


Thank you as well for the reassurance.


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

I just purchased the marconi u52 rectifier for the wa6se and man this beauty is amazing in every way imaginable by far the best that I have used so far by a long way " my question is has anyone used the u52 in the se and what driver/power tubes have you guys used with it ? 
I am currently using the 12sn7s with the u52 but any opinions on great combinations that work really well together would love your feedback .
Cheers headfiers.


----------



## Maalis

Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> I just purchased the marconi u52 rectifier for the wa6se and man this beauty is amazing in every way imaginable by far the best that I have used so far by a long way " my question is has anyone used the u52 in the se and what driver/power tubes have you guys used with it ?
> I am currently using the 12sn7s with the u52 but any opinions on great combinations that work really well together would love your feedback .
> Cheers headfiers.


I thought 12SN7s were not compatible with the SE?


----------



## joseph69

Maalis said:


> I thought 12SN7s were not compatible with the SE?


Woo Audio; "For WA6 2nd Gen only."


----------



## Maalis

joseph69 said:


> Woo Audio; "For WA6 2nd Gen only."



https://wooaudio.com/tubes/12sn7gt-withadapter-pair

"****not compatible with 1st gen WA6 and all WA6-SE*"


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

they are compatible with the 2nd gen wa6se .


----------



## joseph69

Maalis said:


> https://wooaudio.com/tubes/12sn7gt-withadapter-pair
> 
> "****not compatible with 1st gen WA6 and all WA6-SE*"


 What do you think I posted? Look here for tube compatibility.



Nicholasheadfi2 said:


> they are compatible with the 2nd gen wa6se .


Thank you.


----------



## Maalis

joseph69 said:


> What do you think I posted? Look here for tube compatibility.



Yeah, it says WA6, not WA6-SE.


----------



## pfurey89

Is anyone using a wa7 with Utopia? How's the pairing?


----------



## Benny-x

Thanks for the review, it was great to hear genuine owner feedback and see some beautiful pictures. 

I'm a happy LAu owner, but also a gear'phile, so I can't help looking out for what my next purchase might be~

Do you have any further comparative feedback vs. the LAu? I know you've said it's a step up across the board, but I'd love to hear more about the comparison to get an idea about where the LAu falls in the big picture.

Then maybe also vs. other high-end SS or tube amps like the WA Headtrip, Woo WA5 upgraded, DNA Stratus or Stellaris, EC anything but the newer budget ones, etc.? I don't mean owned, but at least had a listen in a proper environment that could give you some idea of the amps and headphones? 

Or the Phi's off a speaker amp? This is how I run my HiFiMAN HE-6 and HEKv1, to amazing effect.

And what about in the DAC department? Any others you're familiar with or liked outside, but on the same level as the Yggdrasil? 

I feel it's really helpful to get a clearer picture of your gear familiarity in order to help me understand your perspectives that you have written about.

Thanks again, though, this was a great write up. And the pictures...!


----------



## filip sebastian

Hello,i bought a Mullard GZ32 tube, and adaptors for 6SN7. Can you reccomend me a few 6SN7 models that will go along with GZ32? The headsets are Beyerdynamic T1 first gen.


----------



## joseph69

I'm posting this in this thread because although I posted it in the 'Woo's New Flagship WA33' thread, there isn't much going on over there.

I received the WA33 (standard) this morning and carefully placed all of the stock tubes into their appropriate sockets, selected my appropriate voltage (110) then plugged in both SE/XLR inputs and the power cord. I switched the output to HP, impedance to L , level to L and input to 1(XLR).
I was immediately disgusted with the feel of the switches...they feel like total garbage, like they're broken. They actually feel like something which would be on a 5yr olds toy (maybe even worse) which has given me a terrible taste in my mouth right from the start. This, too me, is absolutely unacceptable in every way for $8K.

I have the amp powered up with headphones plugged into the (XLR) output and I intend to burn the tubes in for a few hours before taking a quick  listen. Tonight I'm going to do a few hours of listening with my Utopia and give some brief initial impressions. After a sufficient amount of burn in, all I can say is that this amp better sound very acceptable with the stock tubes, and also give me the impression that it would have excellent potential with upgraded tubes.


----------



## thecrow

joseph69 said:


> I'm posting this in this thread because although I posted it in the 'Woo's New Flagship WA33' thread, there isn't much going on over there.
> 
> I received the WA33 (standard) this morning and carefully placed all of the stock tubes into their appropriate sockets, selected my appropriate voltage (110) then plugged in both SE/XLR inputs and the power cord. I switched the output to HP, impedance to L , level to L and input to 1(XLR).
> I was immediately disgusted with the feel of the switches...they feel like total garbage, like they're broken. They actually feel like something which would be on a 5yr olds toy (maybe even worse) which has given me a terrible taste in my mouth right from the start. This, too me, is absolutely unacceptable in every way for $8K.
> ...



“*this amp better sound very acceptable with the stock tubes,..”*

Yeah! You tell them! It better!!!

Ps: i hope it does - good chance it will


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I posted this in the WA33 thread but I'll post here as well since the concern is also shared here.

Hi @joseph69 to address your concern about the "quality" of the switches. The quality is what we focused on when choosing parts for all of our products. In the case of the WA33, we use the ultra-premium ElectroSwitch rotary switches. Their switches are designed for mission-critical tasks and they are the primary supplier of high-quality products for electrical utilities, and the U.S. Navy. Sure, it does not have the buttery-smooth feel of switches found in consumer electronics but it is not a toy in regards to the quality.

Part of the break-in process is also allowing your ears to adjust to the new sound. We recommend customers to enjoy the system as normal during the break-in period. The sound will improve with every use. We hope you can allow the system settle-in before doing critical listenings.

Don’t hesitate to reach out to us if you have questions or concerns. We’re here to help. 

http://electroswitch.com/electroswitchesandrelays/default.htm


----------



## abvolt

joseph69 said:


> I'm posting this in this thread because although I posted it in the 'Woo's New Flagship WA33' thread, there isn't much going on over there.
> 
> I received the WA33 (standard) this morning and carefully placed all of the stock tubes into their appropriate sockets, selected my appropriate voltage (110) then plugged in both SE/XLR inputs and the power cord. I switched the output to HP, impedance to L , level to L and input to 1(XLR).
> I was immediately disgusted with the feel of the switches...they feel like total garbage, like they're broken. They actually feel like something which would be on a 5yr olds toy (maybe even worse) which has given me a terrible taste in my mouth right from the start. This, too me, is absolutely unacceptable in every way for $8K.
> ...


----------



## joseph69

I was rotating the impedance/level switches from H to L and vise-versa several times just to get aquatinted with the sound differences using 3 different impedance headphones. I realized that these switches need to be turned quickly, then they feel fine. When they're turned slowly (like I was doing) and as @HiFiGuy528 mentioned, they're not buttery smooth, I didn't know this, but definitely expected them to be buttery smooth as you already know from my reaction. I now know that they feel rather lumpy when being turned slowly like I've never experienced. My apologies for the outburst and negative remarks. Understanding now how they're supposed to feel, and finding out for myself that tuning them quickly they feel fine, I have no issues with them at all. Again, my apologies to all...I don'twant to mislead anyone on the build quality.

Now as for my initial (and I stress initial) impressions.
I left the amp on for 3hrs (with headphones connected) and did some listening for about 1-1/2 hrs this afternoon between my RS1i/Utopia?HD6XX and I can say I was quite impressed! I was actually overwhelmed at how good all of the headphones I tried with the WA33 sounded, especially with the stock tubes and the little amount of time the amp was powered on. I've been listening tonight for the past 1-1/2 hrs with the Utopia and am enjoying it very much.


----------



## phase0

I didn't ask to play with the switches at CanJam on the WA33 so IDK. I have the WA5, The HP Power and input selects are a little rough (not buttery smooth). I got the settings dialed in so it's rare I touch them. I never considered it an issue. I just assumed they're something rugged so I suspect it is similar for the WA33. The power and volume knobs which I do use frequently have a very pleasing feel and are more to the buttery smooth quality. Anyways @joseph69 I hope you enjoy your amp, and if not don't be afraid to talk to Woo about it as that's a lot of money and you should definitely be satisfied at the end of it.


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> "I got the settings dialed in"


Thank you very much.
What do you mean by this? This is the second time I've heard this said (dialed in). On the WA33 the impedance/level switches go either H or L. I thought maybe there was a range between H and L so I tried it, but I had no sound output unless I turned the switch to either all the way H or L...there's no in-between. Is there an in-between on the WA5 which is why you're saying your settings are "dialed in"?


----------



## phase0

joseph69 said:


> Thank you very much.
> What do you mean by this? This is the second time I've heard this said (dialed in). On the WA33 the impedance/level switches go either H or L. I thought maybe there was a range between H and L so I tried it, but I had no sound output unless I turned the switch to either all the way H or L...there's no in-between. Is there an in-between on the WA5 which is why you're saying your settings are "dialed in"?



Right. There's no special nuance for these switch positions. What I mean is that when the amp is new or you get new headphones, you're gonna play with the settings: twist the knobs and flip the switches (and swap tubes potentially). After a while you start to settle into your preferred settings. After your preference is established those switches get touched less often. If you're using yours as a preamp, or mine for speaker outs... There's scenarios where I might switch outputs more often but I rarely touch it now. Hence dialed in...


----------



## joseph69

phase0 said:


> Right. There's no special nuance for these switch positions. What I mean is that when the amp is new or you get new headphones, you're gonna play with the settings: twist the knobs and flip the switches (and swap tubes potentially). After a while you start to settle into your preferred settings. After your preference is established those switches get touched less often. If you're using yours as a preamp, or mine for speaker outs... There's scenarios where I might switch outputs more often but I rarely touch it now. Hence dialed in...


Thank you for the clarification.


----------



## Kane Williams

On the Dynamic Range Database (http://dr.loudness-war.info/) I have some of the albums (downloads) they say have high DR. Using Mastering The Mix Expose software, I can confirm similar readings to what they get, however, in Expose, there are two measurements for DR, the first is for short term DR, which is the one that corresponds with the figures the database quotes but it is the second one that looks at overall DR of the track (I guess the average DR, so actually how dynamic it is) and all of the tracks I tested that they said were high DR failed this test, so that database is next to useless if the Expose software is to be believed. Such a shame.


----------



## isquirrel

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between a 6SN7 Tube and 13EM7 Tube please?


----------



## elira

isquirrel said:


> Can anyone tell me what is the difference between a 6SN7 Tube and 13EM7 Tube please?


Both tubes have essentially the same function. The main difference is that the 6SN7 is a 6V tube, and the 13EM7 is a 13V tube, that means that you cannot use them in the same amp.


----------



## djd1122

isquirrel said:


> Can anyone tell me what is the difference between a 6SN7 Tube and 13EM7 Tube please?



@isquirrel Do you miss the Tung Sol 6SN7 round plate or do the 13EM7 tubes you've tried perform as good as the TSRP?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Shoutout to everyone who came out to see us. Look forward to our next one!


----------



## isquirrel

djd1122 said:


> @isquirrel Do you miss the Tung Sol 6SN7 round plate or do the 13EM7 tubes you've tried perform as good as the TSRP?


The 6SN7 TSRP have a beautiful midrange and IMO are the very best of the 6SN7's tubes. That are a Twin diode versus the 13EM7 which a double triode. The 13EM7 drives the 300B better IMO, the bass is deeper and the clarity is better. They are also MUCH cheaper and in plentiful supply.


----------



## joseph69

Superbly done, Woo Audio!
Thank you very much.


----------



## abvolt

Wow that's gorgeous dude..enjoy


----------



## joseph69

abvolt said:


> Wow that's gorgeous dude..enjoy


Thank you very much.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joseph69 said:


> Superbly done, Woo Audio!
> Thank you very much.



 beautiful...


----------



## billerb1

GEC 6080 pair...might end up being a deal (Aug 19)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-6080-G...806221?hash=item286433c50d:g:0AkAAOSwHj1beDUl


----------



## Dubstep Girl

billerb1 said:


> GEC 6080 pair...might end up being a deal (Aug 19)
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-6080-G...806221?hash=item286433c50d:g:0AkAAOSwHj1beDUl


not as good as 6as7g gec  

deal4areason


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Aug 24, 2018)

just upgraded my wa5 setup (wa5 with 596,bgrp vt99>> mytek brooklyn dac+, omega rs8 speakers and sub as well as he-6) with western electric 300b, life is complete.

they really succeeded in making the ultimate tube,with the most accurate sound reproduction....

my previous 300b in my wa5 setup, the emission labs 300b synergized really well and had a nice full lush yet 3d and transparent sound, lots of body and 3d depth, I honestly didn’t think my amp could take a jump or two higher in quality as it was mostly all there and I wasn’t missing anything, very good synergy.

These 300b though, WOW! its a massive jump. though at first I was actually kinda surprised, it sounded way leaner, but then as the tubes warmed up and I took it all in, I realized it was just that the previous tubes were quite colored, and I had thought that that was just a characteristic of the 300b sound, but I was misled, these have that typical WE sound (or lack of thereof, its like only the sound is left, thats how accurate and transparent they are ( I previously owned WE422A and these have that same sound, I need a pair of these again now....)

the sound is so raw and fleshed out, palpable, surreal, beautiful clean tonality and organic realism, it extracts so much from the music, and just gives it to you, its addicting, I could listen to these forever. The sound is as real as it gets, theres no extra colorations needed, or fake fullness, its just the window to the music...transparent not neutral or lush or full, the tubes just disappear and you get pure sound, so its quite an experience as everything else is way colored, the beauty is in the purity, soo liquid, like real timbre and interconnected sound waves, its just pure sound! the bass, the highs, its not mid centric or lean or weak like some claim, its the most realistic timbre ever, like the bass is thunderous, fast, and real, like real thunder, waves, rocks crashing bells ringing drums beating, it happens again as you play it and keeps flowing as if you heard it happen for real...its like the creator merged with the universe and western electric and the inventor, and made these for me and you, all of us, to enjoy music, as music, for all eternity...western electric... for life......


----------



## billerb1

Dubstep Girl said:


> not as good as 6as7g gec
> 
> deal4areason



Agreed.  I go exclusively with GEC 6AS7G’s in my WA2.  But the 6080’s are a great little brother if the 6AS7G’s are out of your budget.


----------



## JLoud

I’m running the EML 300b in my wa5 le. Where did you find the western electric tubes? And I’m afraid to ask but how much?


----------



## Krutsch

Dubstep Girl said:


> for all eternity...western electric... for life......



Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Aug 24, 2018)

JLoud said:


> I’m running the EML 300b in my wa5 le. Where did you find the western electric tubes? And I’m afraid to ask but how much?



was looking at ebay and us audio mart, ended up buying a pair on ebay that was used in another amp before, saved a few hundred $ from 2k asking, maybe they were cheaper for that and as new reissues are coming out soon, but I may have gotten lucky as everyone is still asking 3-4k for a pair, more than or as much as many amps, my wa5 now has tubes that cost as much as the amp, measured by full retail now it costs more than the wa33.

the EML300B are fantastic though, and provide 85% of the sound of the WEs, at less than a quarter of the price, I’m convinced that they are the best modern production 300B, and for those looking for a full bodied lush musical 3d sound, you really can’t go wrong with them.

ps. if anyones looking for a pair of EML300B , mine are now for sale


----------



## Justin_Time

I hope to benefit from your experience with the WA5.

1. What EML 300B did you use? The Mesh Plate or Solid Plate?  I was told that the Mesh Plate EML 300B tubes are made to operate best at low voltage (~24 volts not 32 volts?) and may not last as long at the high plate voltage as the solid plate tubes. 

2. Where can I buy WE 300B tubes?

3.  Since I got the efficient (low impedance) Focal Utopia and used the low WA5 HP output, I got a *persistent and slight hum from one channel *that 
- does not go away with noise suppressing device or cheater plug, 
- does not get louder with volume change,
- is persistent with all the tubes I tried (EML 300B Mesh Plate; Sophis Electric 300B Princess & Royal Princess; Sophia Electric 274B;  EML 5U4G; any 6SN7 and variants) and 
- is audible even when there is no line (RCA) input.​
There is no hum with the high output.  I checked with a friend's WA5-LE:  same problem!

I am at my wit's end as to the cause and if anything can be done.


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Aug 26, 2018)

Justin_Time said:


> I hope to benefit from your experience with the WA5.
> 
> 1. What EML 300B did you use? The Mesh Plate or Solid Plate?  I was told that the Mesh Plate EML 300B tubes are made to operate best at low voltage (~24 volts not 32 volts?) and may not last as long at the high plate voltage as the solid plate tubes.
> 
> ...




I used regular EML300B so probably solid plates, they’re great! id wait for we300b reissue or drop 3k + on ebay for them now, theres a seller on us audiomart asking 2k for a pair, theyll be less on reissue but they will be needed to wait and preorder

the wa5 isnt best for high efficiency headphones mostly portables or iems, should work well with full size 25-32 ohm headphones tho. i always use high impedence output or xlr/k1k as it sounds fuller and better on all wa5 i heard, my original as well as the new version. the impedance changes of the other probably are less refined and use more parts, thus a less clean path, the amp is made for the high impedance mainly, the low impedance is a convenience and on the newer woo, extra circuitry that helps justify the new higher price (old wa5 was $3500 and $2500 for wa5le, new is $3700 and $5700) I like my old one more soundwise as well, lush and beautiful, new one is more dynamic but loses that warmth a bit, it like tries a lil too hard to be better, still a good amp though


----------



## JLoud

I am running the EML solid plate 300's. With Utopia's and zero hum on low power, low impedance. On high impedance I can hear slight hum. Or high power will also cause this. In fact on high impedance I get the hum even with my LCD4's. Also I give it a good 20 minutes warmup. Very little hum with Utopia, almost impossible to hear. After 10 or 20 minutes it is completely gone.


----------



## Thaddy

These aren't the hands down best tubes for the WA2 (although they're far from the worst), but I came across some matched Raytheon 6AS7G and 6SN7GTB tubes on eBay from the same year (1955!) and just had to pick them up.  The 6AS7G's sound really great.  Very airy with a large sound stage and a great match for the HD650's.  I mainly paired them with some Amperex 6DJ8's.  The 6SN7's and adapters from Jack just came today and I haven't had much time to compare against the 6DJ8's, but initially these sound like a very "tubey" tube.  Rich and punchy midrange, a great match for the HD600's and T1's.  The 6SN7's do have a slight hum though, although it dissipates as the tubes heat up.


----------



## abvolt

@Thaddy your amp looks great I've always enjoy the 6as7's think I've owned most except the GEC's or any Russian tubes..


----------



## koven

I'm looking for some driver and power tube upgrade recommendations for WA22.. I'm thinking Sophia 274B for Rectifier and maybe TS 7236 or 5998 for power.. but not sure about driver tubes.

Any WA22 tube rollers have advice for me?


----------



## mahesvara

koven said:


> I'm looking for some driver and power tube upgrade recommendations for WA22.. I'm thinking Sophia 274B for Rectifier and maybe TS 7236 or 5998 for power.. but not sure about driver tubes.
> 
> Any WA22 tube rollers have advice for me?



The TungSol 5998 Power tubes are amazing if you're willing to spend that much. The soundstage is expanded quite a lot with those. I used to drive my WA22 with 5998 power tubes, RCA 5692, and Takatsuki 274B. It's the 5998 that had the most dramatic improvement. The Takatsuki adds body, 3D-ness, and clarity but definitely not as warm and fuzzy as Sophia Princess 274B.


----------



## koven

mahesvara said:


> The TungSol 5998 Power tubes are amazing if you're willing to spend that much. The soundstage is expanded quite a lot with those. I used to drive my WA22 with 5998 power tubes, RCA 5692, and Takatsuki 274B. It's the 5998 that had the most dramatic improvement. The Takatsuki adds body, 3D-ness, and clarity but definitely not as warm and fuzzy as Sophia Princess 274B.



I noticed the Taka on Woo site but not sure if I could stomach that price.. may just have to settle w/ the Sophia there but I'm definitely eyeing the TS 5998. Where's a good place to buy those? Woo has them for $500/pair but I feel I can find them for cheaper than that... maybe?


----------



## mahesvara

I bought the 5998 from Jack Wu when I saw him at RMAF last year so can't help you there  I think the 5998 has become a bit more rare.


----------



## koven

mahesvara said:


> I bought the 5998 from Jack Wu when I saw him at RMAF last year so can't help you there  I think the 5998 has become a bit more rare.



Ah I see.. yeah I'm not sure how trustworthy it is to buy these from eBay sellers, perhaps direct from Woo may be the safest route.


----------



## muletrane

Proud new owner of a 1st gen WA6! This this blowing me away. Huge upgrade from my Little Dot 1+. Sounds amazing with my PS500e and my RS2e.


----------



## filip sebastian

*muletrane*
*Nice !!!!*


----------



## attmci

koven said:


> Ah I see.. yeah I'm not sure how trustworthy it is to buy these from eBay sellers, perhaps direct from Woo may be the safest route.



If money is not a problem, sure. 

Most of the 5998s I got from eBay or other websites are good. But YMMV.


----------



## Thaddy (Aug 31, 2018)

I actually have a pair of Tung Sol 5998's that I bought a long time ago before they got popular.  One of the tubes might be dead, and if so, I'll have a spare that I'll consider selling.  Not sure I feel like shelling out ~$150 for another when I have plenty of other great sounding power tubes.

IMO, the Tung Sol 5998's are not worth the current asking price.  $500 from Jack for a match pair is highway robbery.


----------



## muletrane

The Grateful Dead + WA6 = Match made in heaven. 

The Dead never sounded so good.


----------



## koven

attmci said:


> If money is not a problem, sure.
> 
> Most of the 5998s I got from eBay or other websites are good. But YMMV.





Thaddy said:


> I actually have a pair of Tung Sol 5998's that I bought a long time ago before they got popular.  One of the tubes might be dead, and if so, I'll have a spare that I'll consider selling.  Not sure I feel like shelling out ~$150 for another when I have plenty of other great sounding power tubes.
> 
> IMO, the Tung Sol 5998's are not worth the current asking price.  $500 from Jack for a match pair is highway robbery.



Hmm interesting.. how do these look? https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-real...NOS-NIB-6AS7Goids-mil-stock-mint/253835970490
Doesn't seem like they're 'matched' but not sure if that's a big deal anyway.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koven said:


> I'm looking for some driver and power tube upgrade recommendations for WA22.. I'm thinking Sophia 274B for Rectifier and maybe TS 7236 or 5998 for power.. but not sure about driver tubes.
> 
> Any WA22 tube rollers have advice for me?



I recommend 5998, 596, and sylvania 6sn7w metal bases (or bgrp but i feel that the wa22 benefits most from the sylvanias)


----------



## audioadvocate (Aug 31, 2018)

I have the WA22 (2nd edition) with TS5998 (matched pair by Wu) and Sophia 274B.  I use a pair of matched NOS Sylvania 6NS7s (1953-4 vintage) I got from the NY Tube Museum when I go on listening binges of classical music, especially complex orchestral high-quality recordings...always FLAC processed through my Kitsune Tuned SU-1D-D "Converter"/Spring III DAC with either Sennheiser HD800s (Cardas Clear cables) or Ananda Magnetic Planar headphones (Norne cabling) in balanced configuration.

When I want to listen to rock or jazz or are looking for a really full bassy sound,  on good FLAC recordings,  I replace the Sylvania driver tubes with Chinese Treasures.   I wish there was a switch that allowed me to go from the Sylvania's to the Chinese Treasures and back, without repeatedly rolling these tubes out of their sockets.

On the 5998s...I looked long and hard until I gave up and bought them from Woo.  These are well matched and NOS....just beautiful and beautiful-sounding.  I tried to go with other available "allegedly matched" pairs  from two other well-known sources for less $...big mistake.  One set was old and used (low-volume), the other set came with corroded (frankly rusted) pins and I returned both sets.  I remember the Woo-supplied matched 5998s were $440/pair. Seems they are getting quite rare....the went up by $60 in just a few months.


----------



## attmci (Aug 31, 2018)

audioadvocate said:


> I have the WA22 (2nd edition) with TS5998 (matched pair by Wu) and Sophia 274B.  I use a pair of matched NOS Sylvania 6NS7s (1953-4 vintage) I got from the NY Tube Museum when I go on listening binges of classical music, especially complex orchestral high-quality recordings...always FLAC processed through my Kitsune Tuned SU-1D-D "Converter"/Spring III DAC with either Sennheiser HD800s (Cardas Clear cables) or Ananda Magnetic Planar headphones (Norne cabling) in balanced configuration.
> 
> When I want to listen to rock or jazz or are looking for a really full bassy sound,  on good FLAC recordings,  I replace the Sylvania driver tubes with Chinese Treasures.   I wish there was a switch that allowed me to go from the Sylvania's to the Chinese Treasures and back, without repeatedly rolling these tubes out of their sockets.
> 
> On the 5998s...I looked long and hard until I gave up and bought them from Woo.  These are well matched and NOS....just beautiful and beautiful-sounding.  I tried to go with other available "allegedly matched" pairs  from two other well-known sources for less $...big mistake.  One set was old and used (low-volume), the other set came with corroded (frankly rusted) pins and I returned both sets.  I remember the Woo-supplied matched 5998s were $440/pair. Seems they are getting quite rare....the went up by $60 in just a few months.


You could be right.

I like 5998, and collected a number of pairs. I love the clear-top 5998, they are better than the "normal" ones for me. I do use these as well as other top power tubes. Due to the price of the tubes in my collection, now I am using the clear top 90% of the time.


----------



## koven

Having quite a dilemma whether to (over)pay for 5998 from Woo...  There seem to be some fine ones off eBay but you never know...


----------



## tejanolibre

watchdog507 said:


> I takes some patience to assemble the best tubes and unfortunately a lot more money.  Lately, I've noticed that there are fewer and fewer sales of some of the best tubes.  I have back up's of all of my favourites and they go nowhere.




Unfortunately the Tube Sellers are hoarding the most desirable and the most difficult to obtain Legendary tubes and they occasionally release a few tubes to create a False Shortage to raise the prices and interests in the tubes.

In the past few months certain tubes have disappeared even from or specially from E-Garbage sales and auctions. Tung Sol 5998s have disappeared specially N.O.S tubes.

The "Mighty" 596 USAF rectifiers that were $70.00 ( 6 ) months ago are GONE ! But Woo has all you want for $370.00. I was told that Woo bought 100s of 596s and 5998s.
Expect a 5 times price increase very shortly on certain tubes !

Basic marketing strategy and scarcity combined.

The most alarming ad that I recently saw was a pair of Western Electric N.O.S 300B N.I.B inscribed or etched bases circa 1932 for $11,000.00 Dollars !

GET REAL !

Happy Listening,

TL    




 

Probably a Remorseful Purchase !


----------



## audioadvocate (Sep 1, 2018)

There needs to be a balance struck between letting the market govern pricing and discouraging opportunistic greed.  What we are seeing these days is a good deal of greed.  The Tung Sol 5998 are great tubes, but are they really worth $500/matched pair?  I don't think so.  The TungSol 7236 is also a wonderful power tube.  My experience with the 5998 is that the soundstage is actually a bit too wide, somewhat out of proportion to reality.  I find the 7236 tube to be a bit more holographic than the 5998.  I don't have problems perceiving virtual instrument location with the 7236 tubes....you could literally drop a pin on where you hear the instruments.   The 5998, at least on classical program material, makes everything VERY BIG and is a bit lush and warm...and I'm not referring to loudness or volume.  As I said earlier, the 5998 are beautiful and are beautiful-sounding. When I listen to a recording like Capriccio Espagnole by the Montreal Symphony under the baton of Charles Dutoit, the crescendos raise the hairs on the back of my neck.  But if the obscene pricing of the 5998 continues, the 7236 really is a great substitute.  I think the 7236 is a bit more analytical...and I have absolutely no problem with that.

One of these days, the market will run out of great tubes of the Joint Army-Navy variety (tubes used in electronic equipment on the battlefield of Europe, Korea, and even Vietnam) or tubes from Tung Sol when Tung Sol was REALLY Tung Sol.  And when we do, you can bet that you'll see entrepreneurs pop up around the world to produce great substitutes. It happened before, probably a few times, that new tubecrafters from Eastern Europe and Russia came out with reasonable replacements for rare American or German vacuum tubes.  I remember Hungarian and Bulgarian substitutes that in some case were said to rival some NOS American tubes.  I believe SOVTEK was one such company. I am routinely amazed at how the rest of the world, and now, primarily the Orient, has produced audio electronics and digital signal processing technology to rival the best American made stuff.  Unfortunately, I suspect that much of that technology may have been stolen from the USA, but not all of it was.


----------



## abvolt

You are right on the money @tejanolibre with that statement..


----------



## Thaddy

attmci said:


> You could be right.
> 
> I like 5998, and collected a number of pairs. I love the clear-top 5998, they are better than the "normal" ones for me. I do use these as well as other top power tubes. Due to the price of the tubes in my collection, now I am using the clear top 90% of the time.



I have a matched pair of Chatham 6AS7G's with clear tops that I bought for *$40 *years ago.  Ever since one of my Tung Sol 5998's died these have been my go to tube. They sound VERY similar, to the point I can't really tell the difference any more.  I've been trying to find more matching pairs to stock up.  I also have various 6AS7G's from the early 1950's that all sound good.  The Tung Sol 6080 and 7236 are also great tubes.  I recently got a pair of matched Tung Sol 6080's on eBay for *$55*.  The 6080/7236 tubes also seem to exhibit much less noise than the 6AS7G's.

As much as I like their products, it's terrible that Woo Audio is now charging $500 for a matched pair of 5998's.  There are other cheaper alternatives out there that sound just as good.


----------



## attmci

Thaddy said:


> I have a matched pair of Chatham 6AS7G's with clear tops that I bought for *$40 *years ago.  Ever since one of my Tung Sol 5998's died these have been my go to tube. They sound VERY similar, to the point I can't really tell the difference any more.  I've been trying to find more matching pairs to stock up.  I also have various 6AS7G's from the early 1950's that all sound good.  The Tung Sol 6080 and 7236 are also great tubes.  I recently got a pair of matched Tung Sol 6080's on eBay for *$55*.  The 6080/7236 tubes also seem to exhibit much less noise than the 6AS7G's.
> 
> As much as I like their products, it's terrible that Woo Audio is now charging $500 for a matched pair of 5998's.  There are other cheaper alternatives out there that sound just as good.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Tube...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I am pretty sure you are talking about these tubes.

However, the clear-top 5998 is in a different league. They are competing with the 421A......


----------



## tejanolibre

abvolt said:


> You are right on the money @tejanolibre with that statement..



Thank You Kindly !

I sincerely appreciate your vast knowledge and expertise !

Happy Listening to All !

Ramiro

Stranded in Audiophile HELL !

Buenos Aires ,

Argentina


----------



## lumohomo06

Is your WA22 dead quite? I noticed some noise when I plug in my cans, the noise is the same even when I adjust the volume. 
Thanks.


----------



## audioadvocate

I get a tiny amount of "smooth" low-level static when adjusting the volume with no music playing, but never when I leave the volume knob alone. It varies depending upon which tubes are being used. And if their is any while music is playing, it's so far down below the threshold of hearing that it's not noticable. It's less obvious when the tubes heat up.


----------



## phthora

I've been looking through this thread for a while, but I can't seem to find anyone mentioning how the LCD-X pairs with the WA2. There are people taking about pairing that HP with the WA22 and the WA6SE, but I can't tell how similar those amps would be to the WA2.

So, United Woo Ampers, how does the WA2 do with low-impedance planars like the LCD-X?

Also, is the WA6SE really brightish in sound? A couple of reviews mentioned that it was.

Thanks.


----------



## JLoud

I have a WA6SE with EML rectifier and some nice NOS driver/power tubes and I would not say it is a bright amp. Very smooth with good detail and nice soundstage. Nowhere as bright or edgy as say my Schiit Jot. And it plays nice with my Audeze LCD MX4's. And they are low impedance like the X's.


----------



## abvolt

@phthora Well I can tell you that the wa22 plays very good with my XC's in fact it's my favorite hp right now, I say you'll be just fine with that pairing..


----------



## phthora

How much warmth does the amp add?


----------



## abvolt

It's not bright at all very detailed  the wa22 of course adds some warmth as do most tube amps, the ss amp I have is also on the warm tilt which is the LCX a great sounding inexpensive amp..


----------



## MIKELAP

phthora said:


> I've been looking through this thread for a while, but I can't seem to find anyone mentioning how the LCD-X pairs with the WA2. There are people taking about pairing that HP with the WA22 and the WA6SE, but I can't tell how similar those amps would be to the WA2.
> 
> So, United Woo Ampers, how does the WA2 do with low-impedance planars like the LCD-X?
> 
> ...


I had a pair of Fostex TH500RP planars did not like with WA2 if i recall not enough power . never liked that pairing ended up selling the Fostex not my thing


----------



## phthora

MIKELAP said:


> I had a pair of Fostex TH500RP planars did not like with WA2 if i recall not enough power . never liked that pairing ended up selling the Fostex not my thing



Unfortunately, that is what I was expecting. Since I have mostly planars, looks like I'll stick to the WA6SE. Thanks for the input!


----------



## lefever

Hello everyone - First time to try asking a question. I hope I am doing this right.
Can anyone tell me when looking at the back side of a WA22 (backside viewing meaning the AC plug is on the left) - what is the direction of the electrical flow? Is it left to right? or right to left? This question is only for awareness when upgrading the fuse for fuses that are direction sensitive. Thanks to anyone who knows for sure. Or if this has already been answered elsewhere - can you post a link?


----------



## MIKELAP (Sep 7, 2018)

Honestly i use  .25 cent fuses and really dont worry about stuff like that .Spend you money on better tubes is my advice .


----------



## lefever (Sep 8, 2018)

Thanks, @MIKELAP - I hear you... end of the day, it's about the music. I am running a "pack of four for $3" basic glass fuse now. The stock fuse my wa22 came with blew at the time a Sophia 274b Princess rectifier was going bad. That was a month ago and I have since dropped almost $1000 in tubes (and at the end of my budget for tubes), and test-listened to $500 of driver/rectifier combo that I chose not to keep. If a $40-60 fuse will make a difference in replacing something I hear lacking at the moment - something I really enjoy (deep emotional encompassing bass - I do have a $12 Acme Silver fuse that seems to remove that bass presence and this is why I put the cheap fuse back in - I have no shortage of treble extension and stage spatiality at the moment - so I do not need a fuse for that, but my current tube configuration is missing that deep bass involvemnet - that visceral bass but everything else in the musical spectrum is the best it has been)... so if a fuse can give me what I am looking for, then I am open to it - but I am done with tubes and almost done with critical listening assessments (meaning, I just want to get back to smiling because the music sounds so good and involving) -- I am reading every page over the next few days of a fuse forum - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-grade-fuses.419939/   - but thought I would ask this woo audio forum for any electrical direction at the fuse holder just in case it matters - I would like to avoid turning the power on and off repeatedly for switching fuses one way or another to A/B for sonic changes, as that is a good wat to put age on a rectifier tube (as told to me by Sophia Electric). Once I have dialed the sound to the way I like it for my ears - I will be putting a box of tubes up for sale, headphone cables and such that I do not use -- as I do not enjoy tube rolling or critical listening, once I have the sound I want, the tubes will be made available to those who love to tube roll).


----------



## abvolt

I'm not sure how a fuse can make a difference in sq, I read through that forum and some are talking how great those fuses are in sq, I'm not convinced sorry dude..


----------



## audioadvocate (Sep 9, 2018)

My 2-cents re: can fuses out of direct audio circuitry path affect sound quality?  I think they can, but there are so many other factors to consider that differences in sound quality can be do to unexplained and complex electronic interactions between components in and out of the audio chain.

If a fuse acts as a significant resistance to current flow, that could "steal" or limit the amp's *current requirement* for reproduction of the lowest frequencies.  So a skimpy,* resistive* fuse could rob your bass of the fullness (low end frequency response) of your bass.  I was given a solid silver bar for use in my DAC as a replacement for the fuse, and don't notice any audible difference in the DAC's output signal as fed to my WA22.  But since a DAC is a low-level device, and the WA22 is a Current and Voltage-producing device, a silver fuse (99.99%) should be the best in terms of electron, and therefore, current, flow.  Does a pure silver fuse behave in non-linear manner the greater the current flow?  In other words, is there a hysteresis that affects the fuse's resistivity as the current flow fluctuates?  Maybe, but I'd expect that more with a typical BUSS fuse rather than a 4-nines silver bar.  I'd expect a cheap fuse to exhibit more impedance (variance of the measured resistance/a feature of AC circuits) than simple resistance (a feature of DC circuits) and bass loss.

Add to this that at least traditionally, headphones were at one time more voltage-dependent than current-dependent devices.  Remember that magnetic planar cans and Litz cabling have/add capacitive effects as well.

I use headphones that work with traditional drivers (Sennheisers), and those that, because they are magnetic planars (Anandas), are probably heir to capacitive effects.  I have seen finely-tuned stereo amplifiers, whose circuit topology has them operating on the ragged edge of instability (for example, with no negative feedback), blow all of their outputs with Litz speaker or more esoteric cabling by instigating parasitic oscillation, so be mindful that your cables can have a much greater effect on sound quality than a lowly PS fuse.  I was using, at the time, Magnepan MG-IIbs and Martin Logan CLS electrostats...known for their capacitive loads, which made things even more touchy. There are so many countervailing electronic issues in and out of the audio chain that changing out a PS fuse simply shouldn't provide large sonic effects on the audio chain by itself.

Many years ago, I did a "test" to see whether beefing up a power supply in a common audio amplifier could improve that amplifier's low-end performance.  I used a Hafler DH101 and gutted the bridge rectifier, and replaced it with one that had twice the current capability.  I doubled the value of the PS capacitors. I replaced the ON/OFF toggle with a beefier one. The improvement in the solidity and power of the bass response was incredible.  Knowing that Hafler had used MOSFET outputs, I took a chance that I would NOT have taken with regular bipolar output transistors.  But my point is that providing the audio circuit with unfettered access to clean, raw DC power made a huge difference.  Contrast this with likely minute differences in available AC power from the wall.  I'm not convinced that the effect of changing one "good" fuse with another would make a tangible difference.

I suspect that today's headphones are far more current-dependent than ever before.  I have not measured the current output capabilities of the WA22, but with a set of TS5998 or TS7236 tubes or 421As,  I suspect it is substantial.  I also suspect (although I have no proof) that because the WA22 is built like a brick schiithouse, that Woo Audio has considered most of these esoteric electronic interactions, but from what I am told, has decided to keep it's Class A circuit simple.  Everyone has heard the "keep it simple, stupid" admonition....I believe it's a good one.

I dare not ever open my WA22 although I'd love to see a picture of the point-to-point wiring we hear so much about.  If any of you have a photo and could share it, I'd love to see it.


----------



## lefever

Hello @audioadvocate - I really appreciate the depth you took in this discussion. I have noticed a difference in AC cord with my WA22 - I use one that gives me a better definition than the one I use with my speaker preamp loom... why? I have no idea but any time I tube toll and want to check the AC effect, I return back to this particular AC cord. I had a pair of Sylvania 7236 in the power sockets (6080) and they worked great paired with the Sophia Electric 274b Princess Mesh (clear glass) rectifier and the Sophia Electric 6sn7 (discontinued clear glass), Had replaced the  7236 with a great NOS 1959 T-S 6080 tube and the treble delicacies were vastly improved but the reduced power made the combination to polite - the bass was distant and lacked on stage presence and slam... put in a pair of NOS RCA 1956 6sn7GTB tubes and the bass slam returned but the staging was flattened - Went back to the Sophia Electric 6sn7 + Sylvania 7236 and was happy with the emotional involvement I felt though I missed the delicate treble details and timbre -- if I have to compromise I will take emotional involvement over clinical detail  as I use music as a means to shut my mind off while I work and engage emotionally rather than analytically (I have plenty of friends who are the opposite and also get emotionally involved too - this is the subjective part) - analytical detail, especially a treble emphasis actually interferes with my work... I only mention that because one thing rarely discussed in building a system is the "why" we listen to music (intention or goal for making a system sound a particular way)  or if we use it as  for some function other than to disapear into the music -- the 7236 with the Sophia tubes was giving me a touch of glare (noticeable in trumpets, and having heard what delicacy was, I thought to change this but needed to keep that visceral bass - it is why I bought the LCD-3 headphones - midrange warmth and bass and then proceeded to open the Audeze darkenss with tubes cables and equipment - not something I planned - it happened more as a compulsion) - So aquired the Tung-Sol NOS 5998 power tubes and that was the best midrange and treble combination with enough power for the imapact missing with the 6080 tubes... but the deep visceral bass was absent (bass was there, very clean, but a tad lean as if waitng on the new voicing for the  "balls to drop" so to speak .... replaced the Sophia 6sn7 tubes with teh RCA and got my impact with a slight obscuring of the stage air (something the Sophia tubes do well - especially the new Blue glass 6sn7 with their Aqua 274b - amazingly quiet and detailed - too analytical for my tastes and they lacked that onstage presence I like, especially in the deep bass - I would say their sound is similar to the HD800 compared to an Audeze LCD-3 in terms of detail and tone _in my system_).... bringing us to the fuse. I had a silver Acme Audio Labs ($12) ceramic cryo treated fuse (4A - taking a risk with 4A) to replace a blown stock fuse... I was to give it 700 hours to burn in but after about 200 hours, went back to an inexpensive standard electric store 3A glass fuse because it sounds fine and isn't choking the bass which the Acme fuse was apparently doing (I was too impatient to wait a month for the fuse to burn in to see if that was going to change - and besides, Jack Wu recommended I go down to a 3A or even a 2A for protecting the amplifier)-- When you sited. "So a skimpy,* resistive* fuse could rob your bass of the fullness (low-end frequency response) of your bass." -- THAT IS EXACTLY what I experienced - thank you for sharing that insight. I am not planning to go nuts with the fuse - and Jack Wu has said he has played with fuses but heard no difference, however, he may revisit that in the future. However, like you said, and I am paraphrasing, everything (I have found) is dependant on everything else... and my system was built around opening up the Audeze LCD-3. Next month I am changing headphones, and I cringe to think that the current set-up may be less optimized for the new cans. The hobby is too rich for my blood - and why I have come to the forum to eliminate isolated trial and error. Thank you again for your contribution - it was helpful.


----------



## abvolt

I think after further reading on how fuses affect sq in audio gear by some very notable reviewers even the owner of PS audio is convinced they work, I'm going to take back my not being convinced until I give them a try..


----------



## fnsnyc

Quick question:
The WA7 (1st gen with tube power supply) or the WA8?
and why?


----------



## elira

fnsnyc said:


> Quick question:
> The WA7 (1st gen with tube power supply) or the WA8?
> and why?


I'll take the WA8. I auditioned both and I didn't like the WA7 it was a little too sharp, the WA8 was amazing and it's transportable.


----------



## fnsnyc

I didn't focus on that too much though, more the mid range and bottom end. 
But now that you say it, the cymbals sounded more blended in and more in place on the WA8.


----------



## attmci

audioadvocate said:


> My 2-cents re: can fuses out of direct audio circuitry path affect sound quality?  I think they can, but there are so many other factors to consider that differences in sound quality can be do to unexplained and complex electronic interactions between components in and out of the audio chain.
> 
> If a fuse acts as a significant resistance to current flow, that could "steal" or limit the amp's *current requirement* for reproduction of the lowest frequencies.  So a skimpy,* resistive* fuse could rob your bass of the fullness (low end frequency response) of your bass.  I was given a solid silver bar for use in my DAC as a replacement for the fuse, and don't notice any audible difference in the DAC's output signal as fed to my WA22.  But since a DAC is a low-level device, and the WA22 is a Current and Voltage-producing device, a silver fuse (99.99%) should be the best in terms of electron, and therefore, current, flow.  Does a pure silver fuse behave in non-linear manner the greater the current flow?  In other words, is there a hysteresis that affects the fuse's resistivity as the current flow fluctuates?  Maybe, but I'd expect that more with a typical BUSS fuse rather than a 4-nines silver bar.  I'd expect a cheap fuse to exhibit more impedance (variance of the measured resistance/a feature of AC circuits) than simple resistance (a feature of DC circuits) and bass loss.
> 
> ...


Old version with DACT CT2


----------



## audioadvocate

Thank you for the WA22 photo.  I suspect and hope that Woo Audio stayed with the high quality  DACT CT2 balanced attenuators.  I'm curious to know what's different with gen. 2.   I see high-quality components and a very simple and neat layout.  I wonder if a few of those electrolytics are within the signal path.  I'm seeing some 47μF and larger polar caps and some Dale 500Ω chassis-mounted wirewounds and some Dayton resistors with some tight tolerances.  I see what appear to be 2- Neutrik female 3-pin and one 4-pin chassis mounted connectors.  I expected greater complexity and an epoxy-encased PC board.  Just kidding.  From my limited experience, Class A done simply is easier to do simply when you use very high-quality components.  But it's never good to see how the sausage is made. What matters clearly is the sound, and the sound on the WA22 and the WA22 2nd Gen is just damn good.    Again...thank you!


----------



## Stereolab42

Woo amps are always a work-of-art internally. They look so organized and uncluttered it almost makes you think it must be easy to make good tube amps.


----------



## audioadvocate

After browsing the forum for CD-transports, I don't see much. So please don't mind me asking in this amp section.  I am having lots of USB dropouts with my laptop and despite tweaking the way the processor polls the USB ports and the Wi-Fi card, Dell created my laptop with too much dependency of software controls and not enough hardware controls.  I'd use my main PC more but it's less convenient from my listening position. So the USB dropouts continue.  I have a significant CD collection dating back three and a half decades and have been thinking about a CD transport.  Has anyone had experience with the Woo WTP-1?  It only does Redbook CDs but that's most of my collection.  With Tidal and all of the software that can play FLAC directly, etc, being popular, I expected the CD-transports to come down in price, but apparently not yet.


----------



## tejanolibre

lumohomo06 said:


> Is your WA22 dead quite? I noticed some noise when I plug in my cans, the noise is the same even when I adjust the volume.
> Thanks.



Howdy,

It seems to depend on the tubes that I am using at that moment but the slight noise is overcome with the volume I think.

Example: TS 5998s , TS 6F8Gs , TS Rectifier with Double getters. Noisy! Too much POWER ?

TS5998s , TS 6F8Gs , The "Mighty" 596 : NO NOISE. Or Sophia Princess 274b. No noise. 

When using all Tung Sol NOS tubes there was an unkindly low level noise. 

But I don't know anything !

Having trouble setting up my Matrix X Pro DAC and JRiver 24 !

I apologize for my lack of knowledge !

Happy Listening ,

Ramiro

Stranded in Audiophile HELL !

Buenos Aires,
Argentina


----------



## Autostart

Hello,
Good afternoon. I recently took to a short break from head-fi to get into something a bit more active and healthy (mountain biking), but couldn't stay away for too long as I purchased a WA5 to help feed the curiosity of the 300b tube. I am thrilled with the amp and no matter the tubes the WA5 sounds amazing. Of course better tubes = better sound, but I have yet to find a " bad tube " with this amp like I was able to do with my WA22 or WA2.

I have a bunch of tubes that I would like to experiment with but not sure the compatibility. Does anyone know if it's possible to roll in some 2C51, 6H3NE, WE396 variants (with adapters - of course), and/or 6922?  I am sure the 6SN7 sound better although I remember back in my Schiit MJ2 tube rolling days when all the craze was the TS2C51. I ordered a pair of Tung Sol 2C51 and adapters and never received so much bang for the buck as far as tube rolling is concerned. So, now I am wondering if those same TS2C51 will roll into the WA5?


----------



## nathanoakes

Sup guys, I'm looking to get some advice, since I can't find any conclusive information elsewhere.

I have a WA6SE with a Sophia 274b and a pair of 6DN7 drivers.  I do my listening through the Sennheiser HD800.
I'm noticing a lot of hum that:

Is faintly present when the volume is at 0
Gets louder until the volume is at 8 o'clock.
Stays at the same volume until the volume is at 4 o'clock
Has some background hiss to it
Gets louder when I touch the plastic around the tubes (less so when I touch the glass or tube adapters
Is semi-audible from the power supply side of the SE.
Is completely even on both channels.
So far I have tried the following:  

Removed everything from electrical outlets (except the washing machine, which was running) 
Removed audio source cables and kept them out for all tests
Tried plugging power into another socket
Tried the headphones in the lower impedance port
Does anyone have any idea why this is happening and how I can get rid of it?
The tube adapters are some cheaper ones I found on eBay, since $80 for two is a little steep direct from woo.


----------



## elira

nathanoakes said:


> Sup guys, I'm looking to get some advice, since I can't find any conclusive information elsewhere.
> 
> I have a WA6SE with a Sophia 274b and a pair of 6DN7 drivers.  I do my listening through the Sennheiser HD800.
> I'm noticing a lot of hum that:
> ...


Probably bad tubes, have you tried with other tubes?


----------



## nathanoakes

elira said:


> Probably bad tubes, have you tried with other tubes?



Well this is my second pair of 6DN7s which had the same problem, leading me to believe it's the tubes.
Hum is pretty much non-existent with my 6EW7s


----------



## elira

nathanoakes said:


> Well this is my second pair of 6DN7s which had the same problem, leading me to believe it's the tubes.
> Hum is pretty much non-existent with my 6EW7s


Probably the adapter, do you have tubes that have worked with your adapter?


----------



## nathanoakes

elira said:


> Probably the adapter, do you have tubes that have worked with your adapter?


Yes, sorry, I meant to say "leading me to believe it's the adapters".

The two pairs of 6DN7 are the only tubes I've had that need the adapter, so no :/ I can't find any cheaper ones anywhere either.


----------



## davehg (Oct 19, 2018)

Autostart said:


> Hello,
> Good afternoon. I recently took to a short break from head-fi to get into something a bit more active and healthy (mountain biking), but couldn't stay away for too long as I purchased a WA5 to help feed the curiosity of the 300b tube. I am thrilled with the amp and no matter the tubes the WA5 sounds amazing. Of course better tubes = better sound, but I have yet to find a " bad tube " with this amp like I was able to do with my WA22 or WA2.



Agree here. My WA22 is pretty finicky but the WA5 just sings. I used the Genelex Gold Lion 300b and the Sophias. Sounds magnificent. I’ve not felt a need to spend the money on TAKs, better spent on funding my eMTB (Specialized Levo Comp) and getting back into better shape.


----------



## Jefedemuchanina

Hey can anybody reccomened some good tubes for a wa3 i found some telefunken black diamonds that interest me they are for hd 600’s so id like them to have a punchy bass and good soundstage. Also is it worth changing the power tube if so whats good for that im willing to spend about $150 total for all 3


----------



## Krutsch

Jefedemuchanina said:


> Hey can anybody reccomened some good tubes for a wa3 i found some telefunken black diamonds that interest me they are for hd 600’s so id like them to have a punchy bass and good soundstage. Also is it worth changing the power tube if so whats good for that im willing to spend about $150 total for all 3



Start reading from here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite.428570/page-2676#post-14056035

...and then ask questions. This post above is about power tubes. I have advice on drivers for the WA3, as well, but that's a longer discussion.

However, to cut to the chase on the low-cost end for the drivers, I strongly recommend these:
https://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-6922-vacuum-tube/vacuum-tubes?pp=25

They sound fantastic, have great clarity and imaging ... almost holographic compared to many of my other driver tubes. New they are about $50 US each, as I recall.

...if you want to spend more money, my other favorites are Siemens CCa (NOS), Siemens E288CC (NOS - mine are re-branded as Philips) or Telefunken E188CC (NOS); all are WAY more expensive, but can be found on eBay. I have more tubes (see my profile), but these are the ones I rotate between.


----------



## Jefedemuchanina

Krutsch said:


> Start reading from here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite.428570/page-2676#post-14056035
> 
> ...


Okay thanks $150 is about what im gonna spend on tubes for this im saving the rest i actually splurged and got a felik 
espressivo mark 2 and wanna focus on putting some tubes into that still love how the woo sounds i did see those more expensive telefunkens how do those sound? Once money settles i might invest in some of those


----------



## Badas

Something has occurred to me. Kinda clicked.

With all the tube rolling I have done. The tubes I like the most actually makes my whole amp warmer.
Is there a connection with tube amps running warmer and better sound? Or is it just a coincidence?

Some members say the best sound is after running an hour or so. Is that because the whole amp has warmed up?


----------



## abvolt

That sure has been true for me, the warmer the amp the better the sound I'm glad you mentioned that I've wondered the same. Also when I roll a pair of 6080's in my amp it does run warmer a lot over say a pair of 5998's. I've even noticed the same is true with my dac the longer it's on the better it sounds..enjoy


----------



## joseph69

I'd have to agree with both, @Badas & @abvolt.
After having my BHSE/WA33/WA6 powered on for a few hours they definitely sounded warmer too me.


----------



## Matro5

joseph69 said:


> I'd have to agree with both, @Badas & @abvolt.
> After having my BHSE/WA33/WA6 powered on for a few hours they definitely sounded warmer too me.



Just curious - how does the WA6 compare to the WA33? Different leagues, certainly, wrt price, but if you have any thoughts, I'd be interested.


----------



## joseph69

Matro5 said:


> Just curious - how does the WA6 compare to the WA33? Different leagues, certainly, wrt price, but if you have any thoughts, I'd be interested.


Different league. That doesn't mean the WA6 wasn't a great sounding, enjoyable amp, though.


----------



## Odin412

joseph69 said:


> Different league. That doesn't mean the WA6 wasn't a great sounding, enjoyable amp, though.



Very true. I really enjoy my WA6 - and playing with different tubes, of course.


----------



## joseph69 (Oct 26, 2018)

Odin412 said:


> Very true. I really enjoy my WA6 - and playing with different tubes, of course.


I owned my WA6 the longest out of all the amps I've owned through the years. I only sold it after buying the WA33.


----------



## JLoud

I have a WA6 se and a WA5le. The 5 is definitely a step or two above the 6. I still enjoy the 6 but I can easily tell the difference. How does the 33 compare to the 5? Very curious.


----------



## derekphone

Ron Sherwood said:


> Interesting.  I was under the impression that Woo's customer service was quite good.
> 
> Very close to pulling the trigger on a WA6 or WA7 by the end of the week.  Perhaps I need to rethink my position.


I gave them a call and Mr. Woo himself called me back and we talked for an hour. He gave me tons of support on a small issue I had with RF. He also gave me lots of advice on all things audio. He sent me an email after and was very gracious and told me to reach out anytime. I didn't feel one ounce of being a nuisance. Amazing support really.


----------



## atbglenn

My 9 year old WA6 is still going strong. Still very satisfied with it.


----------



## derekphone

atbglenn said:


> My 9 year old WA6 is still going strong. Still very satisfied with it.


How does the Modi 3(?) compare to the WA6. I know, it’s in a different category, but that’s exactly why I’m asking. I like to test assumptions. How much better is the wa6?


----------



## atbglenn

The Asgard and the Woo are two different animals. The Asgard is ok for its purpose. It's connected to my Mac Mini via a first gen Modi DAC. I have 20,000 MP3's that I can access. It's more for convenience when I'm not critically listening. The Woo is connected to my CD player. The Woo's configuration sounds much better. I never tried the Asgard with my CD player. Maybe I'll do that someday.


----------



## derekphone

Thanks! You never know. I’m liking my WA6. I’ve only had it for a couple weeks. I’m new to the headphone game, came from 2-channel. 

I recently came to a conclusion on an element of my setup - the crossfeed function. I initially heard it on the ifi pro ican. Did research, found the Goodhertz plugins for Mac and tested that out. Went back to the store to test the ifi and I was surprised to confirm the goodhertz performed the task of crossfeed and getting the sound out of the head quite a bit better in effect and in maintaining sound quality. 

I also tested the Hd800 against my HD650 on that amp in the tube setting and definitely preferred the 650. 

This is reminding me to question everything. Price and opinions don’t mean much until you hear it on your own. $300 vs $2000 , that’s a huge difference and I actually prefer the 300? Crazy. Of course the combo of other equipment plays a role but still.


----------



## davehg

I had to pack the WA5 away today to prepare for a house remodel, but decided to keep a system in my temp quarters built around the WA22. Been listening to various headphones and so far the HD650 and Focal Clears are winning out over the LCD3f.

I can’t say I’ve enjoyed the Audeze WA22 pairing. On the WA5 the Audeze runs fantastic. Wonder if it’s just a matter of tubes? Currently running the Brimar 5UG4, Mullard 6080s, and Sovtek 6SN7GTs. Sound is clear if a little glassy.


----------



## attmci (Oct 28, 2018)

davehg said:


> I had to pack the WA5 away today to prepare for a house remodel, but decided to keep a system in my temp quarters built around the WA22. Been listening to various headphones and so far the HD650 and Focal Clears are winning out over the LCD3f.
> 
> I can’t say I’ve enjoyed the Audeze WA22 pairing. On the WA5 the Audeze runs fantastic. Wonder if it’s just a matter of tubes? Currently running the Brimar 5UG4, Mullard 6080s, and Sovtek 6SN7GTs. Sound is clear if a little glassy.



You may want to try some other power and driver tubes. Then get a nicer rectifier tube.

Many of us like the WA22/LCD-3f pair.

I prefer to cheaper clear-top 2399/5998. I took a close look at both tubes yesterday, and found the structure of the clear-top 2339 tube is almost identical to that of a 421A. But the clear-top 2399 are very rare. More rare than diamond. So if you find one in the future, grab it........no......let me know. LOL


----------



## UMN

I am new to Headphones. I first bought a Massdrop HD6XX, and then a used WA6. 

Over the years, I had many tube amps in my large system, so I am no stranger to tube rolling.

I like a dynamic sound with good imaging, that is not fatiguing. My tube set in the WA6: Rectifier: RCA 1953 coke bottle 5U4G. Woo adapters. Sylvania VT-231 1943 drivers.


----------



## filip sebastian (Oct 29, 2018)

My setup: Woo Audio WA6 and  Musical Fidelity M1 HPA.





WA6 tubes: Mullard GZ32 and 2x 6DR7 Samsung. Cd player/dac: Ayon Cd 7's.
Musical Fidelity M1 HPA and Peachtree DAC iTX.
Headphones: Beyerdynamic T1 and AKG K500.


----------



## astrostar59 (Dec 4, 2018)

*WA234 alternative?*

I have ordered this big SET amplifier from Aries Cerat, mainly for my speakers use. BUT it has a high and low impedance *headphone out* directly from the output stage. The amp has a true 25 watts Class A SET output, with 40 watt peaks in AB mode. I have owned SET before, 300B MBs mainly, and this beast is something else. I'll post later when it arrives with impressions. I will use it on my LCD4s.


----------



## Deftone

That thing is an absolute monster


----------



## Zhanming057

WA5 and Mysphere 3.2


----------



## jbarrentine

I only have one question I can't read 2600 pages for:  WA3 or WA6 for HD600/650/800S. Thanks.


----------



## Krutsch

jbarrentine said:


> I only have one question I can't read 2600 pages for:  *WA3 or WA6 for HD600/650/800S*. Thanks.



WA3. No question.


----------



## Odin412

Krutsch said:


> WA3. No question.



Agreed. The WA3/HD650 combo is fabulous.


----------



## UMN

I have both HD650 and HDxx. They both sound great with my WA6, first generation. I never tried a WA3 . For what it's worth see Tone Audio's Volume 8 article where they prefer the WA6 over the WA3 for the HD650. http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_008.pdf


----------



## Deftone

WA6 is supposedly faster and more dynamic.


----------



## Krutsch

UMN said:


> I have both HD650 and HDxx. They both sound great with my WA6, first generation. I never tried a WA3 . For what it's worth see Tone Audio's Volume 8 article where they prefer the WA6 over the WA3 for the HD650. http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_008.pdf



I would read that review with a grain of salt. He says that with Grados, the WA3+ is a match made in heaven. Hmmm... not my experience. My Grado RS2i (same impedance characteristics) drive quickly into very audible distortion with the WA3.

I've listened to both (6 and 3) with the HD-650 and the difference was substantial at higher volumes. The HD-650 is my favorite set of 'phones but, IMO, they do not sound as pleasing at lower volumes.

One other thing to note: the reviewer is testing with stock tubes and the WA3 scales well with power and (slightly less so) with driver tubes upgrades. Lots of posts in this thread on tubes and the WA3.

To cut to the chase on the low-cost end for the drivers, I strongly recommend these:

http://store.t-funk.com/p/e88cc-tk-6922-vacuum-tube/vacuum-tubes?pp=25

They sound fantastic, have great clarity and imaging compared to many of my other driver tubes. New they are about $50 US each, as I recall.

if you want to spend more money, my other favorites are Siemens CCa (NOS), Siemens E288CC (NOS - mine are re-branded as Philips) or Telefunken E188CC (NOS); all are WAY more expensive on eBay. I have a pile of tubes (see my profile), but these are the ones I rotate between.

For the power tubes, that one is harder:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite.428570/page-2676#post-14056035

Enjoy the journey... if you are a fan of the HD-650, you will love the pairing with the WA3.


----------



## Deftone

Krutsch said:


> I would read that review with a grain of salt. He says that with Grados, the WA3+ is a match made in heaven. Hmmm... not my experience. My Grado RS2i (same impedance characteristics) drive quickly into very audible distortion with the WA3.
> 
> I've listened to both (6 and 3) with the HD-650 and the difference was substantial at higher volumes. The HD-650 is my favorite set of 'phones but, IMO, they do not sound as pleasing at lower volumes.
> 
> ...



How do you feel that the WA3 is better than WA6SE for 650?


----------



## reeltime

I just got a notice pre-orders for the new Western Electric 300B begin January 11. Who's interested?


----------



## JLoud

I will wait to hear reviews. But am definitely interested. I am running EML 300b now. And they are very nice.


----------



## davehg

Deftone said:


> How do you feel that the WA3 is better than WA6SE for 650?



Personally, I feel the WA22 is the best match for the HD650. Using balanced source and in balanced output mode.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 27, 2019)

Deftone said:


> How do you feel that the WA3 is better than WA6SE for 650?


This is so odd to me.  People say the same for Bottlehead crack which is also OTL.

Does it warm up the sound more?  I expect OTL to loosen the sound, but I don't know if I'd enjoy it.  I have a solid-state that drives it super well doing the opposite of loose, tightening the sound, getting rid of much of that loose warmth which I prefer.

Wouldn't OTL slow the respons?  My solid-state actually contols the drivers rapidly, and I think it goes hand in hand with what I said about tightening the sound or dampening it.

What do these OTL do to the 650 to be preferred?  What about the other 300 ohms, 600/800?


----------



## Krutsch (Jan 27, 2019)

Deftone said:


> How do you feel that the WA3 is better than WA6SE for 650?



Honesty, it was years ago at a meet that I had the opportunity to compare my WA3 to someone else's WA6, side-by-side. I recall preferring the WA3, but I can't remember what the sound differences were. Sorry.

FWIW, I also did the same at that meet (and another one, a year later) with a BHC + Speedball, and had a similar reaction. So did the owner of the BHC; he asked if he could borrow a power tube (a Tung-Sol 5998, IIRC) and was impressed by the difference in sound.

The WA3 is an under appreciated amp on Head-Fi.

EDIT: ... with the HD-650, IMO.


----------



## Odin412

Krutsch said:


> The WA3 is an under appreciated amp on Head-Fi.



Agreed. I have both the WA3 and the WA6 and I like them with different headphones. The WA3 sounds really good with high-impedance headphones like the HD 650. The WA6 can drive lower-impedance headphones and sounds wonderful with e.g. MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed and Focal Elear IMHO. YMMV, as always.


----------



## UMN

Odin412 said:


> Agreed. I have both the WA3 and the WA6 and I like them with different headphones. The WA3 sounds really good with high-impedance headphones like the HD 650. The WA6 can drive lower-impedance headphones and sounds wonderful with e.g. MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed and Focal Elear IMHO. YMMV, as always.



Can you explain why the WA3 sounds better than the WA6 with the HD 650. How does it sound better, etc. Thanks.


----------



## Odin412

UMN said:


> Can you explain why the WA3 sounds better than the WA6 with the HD 650. How does it sound better, etc. Thanks.



I can try. I find the HD 650 to be a forgiving headphone for poor recordings. I also find that the WA6 is a pretty forgiving amplifier - somewhat depending on tubes, of course. The combination of HD 650 and WA6 becomes too much for me - so forgiving that it starts sounding a bit thick and constrained. The WA3 works with the HD 650 to enhance its already excellent musicality without any additional thickness. This is all very tube-dependent, of course - both amps respond well to tube rolling. I should also tell you that to my ears the WA3 sound especially good with a vintage Tung-Sol 5998 power tube, which isn't exactly cheap. I'm looking for the even more rare and expensive Western Electric 421A - tubes are dangerous to your wallet!

So the quick summary is WA3/HD 650 = synergy, WA6/HD 650 = no synergy.


----------



## Zhanming057

SilverEars said:


> This is so odd to me.  People say the same for Bottlehead crack which is also OTL.
> 
> Does it warm up the sound more?  I expect OTL to loosen the sound, but I don't know if I'd enjoy it.  I have a solid-state that drives it super well doing the opposite of loose, tightening the sound, getting rid of much of that loose warmth which I prefer.
> 
> ...



Conventional wisdom is that the HD800 and 600 benefit from the higher output impedance of OTL amps, which as you point out creates "looseness" and warmth from introducing distortions across the frequency range. I've always seen it as more of an argument about how OTL amps are _not_ suitable for low-impedance planars because the output impedance is a much larger fraction (or even larger than) the headphone's impedance. 

For what it's worth, my gold-standard amps for the HD800 are darker, strong solid states such as the LAG, Rudistor 030 and the Pass Labs HPA1. The Woo amps are best with even brighter and faster headphones such as the Focal Utopia.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 28, 2019)

Zhanming057 said:


> Conventional wisdom is that the HD800 and 600 benefit from the higher output impedance of OTL amps, which as you point out creates "looseness" and warmth from introducing distortions across the frequency range. I've always seen it as more of an argument about how OTL amps are _not_ suitable for low-impedance planars because the output impedance is a much larger fraction (or even larger than) the headphone's impedance.
> 
> For what it's worth, my gold-standard amps for the HD800 are darker, strong solid states such as the LAG, Rudistor 030 and the Pass Labs HPA1. The Woo amps are best with even brighter and faster headphones such as the Focal Utopia.


I recently found out Zana Deux is OTL with very small output impedance.  3 ohmish under low setting?  Not entirely sure.

The thing is, I do not know the specific values of these amps.  I was under the impression bottlehead crack's is large.

The Woo WA5 is transformer coupled and it's either 16 for low and 32 for high impedance setting, no?

How much is WA5 and BH crack's?

In terms of technicalities, HD800/S require precision in the chain, like a really damped, to sound technical, but there are amps that can make the 800 sound too incisive as well.

Tonality is a preference depending on the person, that some want a bit of body since 800/S are tuned diffuse field and rather thin to my ears.  And end up trying to 'fix' it's tonality, but why not just look for the right headphone?

IMO purpose of having 800/S is the technicalities, and reducing it for tonality doesn't seem worth it.

For example, just get a HD650 or 6XX if that's the type of tonality if one is after, and save mucho dinero.


----------



## UMN

Odin412 said:


> I can try. I find the HD 650 to be a forgiving headphone for poor recordings. I also find that the WA6 is a pretty forgiving amplifier - somewhat depending on tubes, of course. The combination of HD 650 and WA6 becomes too much for me - so forgiving that it starts sounding a bit thick and constrained. The WA3 works with the HD 650 to enhance its already excellent musicality without any additional thickness. This is all very tube-dependent, of course - both amps respond well to tube rolling. I should also tell you that to my ears the WA3 sound especially good with a vintage Tung-Sol 5998 power tube, which isn't exactly cheap. I'm looking for the even more rare and expensive Western Electric 421A - tubes are dangerous to your wallet!
> 
> So the quick summary is WA3/HD 650 = synergy, WA6/HD 650 = no synergy.



I have a WA6 together with my HD6xx (effectively a HD650) and heard the same thing. 
I decided that I need more treble emphasis, air, and sound stage. I did a lot of research here on Head-Fi and found that I should replace the small diver tubes with 6SN7's. Additional research on the web showed the 6SN7's that fit my profile seem to be the Sylvania VT-231's. So I bought the Woo adapters, a matched pair of VT-231's, and a RCA 5U4G coke bottle rectifier. No question, the tubes and adapters cost a lot. But the Woo now sounds completely different. With the Sylvania's the sound is not thick. No Sennheiser veil. Instead I hear beautiful texture, good detail, good sound stage, and lot's of PRAT. YMMV.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Jan 30, 2019)

Wanted to try some different 300Bs on my WA5, aside from the SERPs and EML 300B meshes that I've been using for years. PSVane has gotten some attention for the WE replicas, so I decided to try their latest TOTL offering, the 300B Plus, which was easily available on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Pair-P...rn-Electric-300B-Replica-Upgrade/322886741261

(It's unclear what makes this a Plus, or what makes this a more or less faithful duplicate of the original WEs. But I'm far from an expert on that topic.) A couple weeks later they arrived, very nicely packaged, with test information and personally signed by the founder (whose name I can't translate):





















The tubes felt solid and well-made. Threw them on the WA5, with some trusty Sylvania brown 6SN7s and Sophia 274Bs, feeding an Abyss. I'm not one for elaborate descriptions of how things sound but I an very impressed. They have excellent bass response, but unlike the EMLs aren't dark and liquidly at all. I'd call them noticeably less bright than the SERPs, maybe a touch darker than neutral -- but only a touch. Very forward and expressive across the spectrum overall, excellent for rock/pop/electronic, which is my thing.

I give these tubes two conditional thumbs up. Sonically, they are a home run. The big question that remains to be answered, of course, is reliability. Only time will tell.


----------



## JLoud

I am running the EML 300B's in my WA5. Could you give a little more in depth comparison between them and the Psvane?


----------



## Stereolab42 (Jan 30, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I am running the EML 300B's in my WA5. Could you give a little more in depth comparison between them and the Psvane?



The mesh or the regular? I have the mesh. I have always found them dark and very smooth and liquid-like compared to any other 300B. While they are fine the more neutral and forward PSVANE is my preference.


----------



## JLoud

I have the mesh. I really like the smooth sound and a little bit dark sound signature. Probably suit my tastes better. Thanks, saved me some cash.


----------



## reeltime

I agree. Mesh. And the EMLs were superior to the PSVanes to my ears. 

Side note: I did pre-order the new Western Electric 300B. Anxious to see how good they are (and hope they don't blow up like the Elrogs!)


----------



## Stereolab42

reeltime said:


> I agree. Mesh. And the EMLs were superior to the PSVanes to my ears.
> 
> Side note: I did pre-order the new Western Electric 300B. Anxious to see how good they are (and hope they don't blow up like the Elrogs!)



Interesting. I'm tempted to order a pair and head-to-head them with the PSVanes. Unfortunately the IRS is saying "no". Ahh well.


----------



## JLoud

Post impressions of the Western Electric 300's. I have been eyeing them since I heard they were tooling up. NOS Western Electrics are just too expensive for me.


----------



## davehg

I took advantage of a recent tube vendor sale and added a pair of RCA 6SN7GTBs to swap in the WA22 for the existing Sovteks. Nice creamy tube sound, took a bit of the sparkle and lots of glare away but fat bass, warm midrange and decent air were abundantly present. To my ears the WA22 could stand to lose some glare.


----------



## hunter9002

Has anyone upgraded their WA7 DAC from 1st generation to 2nd generation? What differences have you noticed?

My unit is currently in for repair at Woo and they're offering me this upgrade for $499. I either get that or I spend $180 to repair my broken USB port. So essentially I'd be spending $320 more for the new DAC. Thoughts?

https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wa7dacupgrade


----------



## tumpux

At 499, I won’t bother upgrading the dac board. I won’t even bothered to have the usb port fixed.   Woo’s dac is not that great. If you need one, get a separate unit, you can get something better with that budget.


----------



## attmci (Feb 8, 2019)

hunter9002 said:


> Has anyone upgraded their WA7 DAC from 1st generation to 2nd generation? What differences have you noticed?
> 
> My unit is currently in for repair at Woo and they're offering me this upgrade for $499. I either get that or I spend $180 to repair my broken USB port. So essentially I'd be spending $320 more for the new DAC. Thoughts?
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wa7dacupgrade


I agree that's a lot of $ for such a small board. Also you should consider the resale value of your WA7.

There are also some useful information here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-hoooo-wa7-fireflies.649097/page-165


----------



## hunter9002

Thanks. If you had to ballpark, what do you think the resale value is? In 2014 I paid $600 for this first gen WA7 used. Got the upgraded tubes in there too.


----------



## JamesB797 (Feb 11, 2019)

Hi, I recently tested the WA6-SE in my system with the LCD-3F and noticed a slight metallic twinge in the treble that was pretty irritating to listen to. I switched over to the gilmore lite mk2, which provides a similar amount of power, and it went away. My impression of the mk2 is that it should be a slightly brighter amp, though I know the WA6-SE is pretty neutral for a tube amp, so I'm suspecting the mk2 might have better power filtering than the WA6-SE.

I'm considering getting a power conditioner to test if that's really the issue. Any other ideas or recommended brands from people who have had the same kind of issue with a woo amp before?

Thanks!

Edit: The WA6-SE has a Sophia Princess tube, the power tubes have not been changed


----------



## JLoud

I use an Emission Labs 5U4G in mine. Never noticed metallic twinge. But I did notice a blacker background when I added a PS Audio Dectet. $500. So not crazy expensive but cleaned up the sound nicely. But depends on how clean your incoming power is and what else you have on the outlet.


----------



## JamesB797 (Feb 11, 2019)

Thanks for the reply. I looked more into power conditioners and realized my current setup is almost as terrible as it could possibly be, as I have the WA6-SE plugged into a power bar full of random chargers with another power bar with monitors and chargers plugged into the first power bar. Plus my computer is plugged into a similar power bar in the same outlet -_-.

I ordered the Furman PST-8D and will report back once I've tested it to note if there's any difference. Even if that doesn't turn out to be the issue It'll still be a good purchase since it'll protect my gear from random power issues.


----------



## JamesB797

Wow. The warmth is back. The bass is back. The treble isn't wack! Buying thousands of dollars of gear and feeding it with garbage power was a bad idea after all. Totally satisfied, will definitely consider Furman for audio setups in the future. The noise is gone and I don't get the feeling I'm listening to a carbonated drink anymore. 

Honestly it's not that big of a difference, but whatever was in there before that was making the WA6-SE close to unlistenable is gone and I'm happy.


----------



## JLoud

Glad it solved the problem. It definitely helped my system as well.


----------



## joseph69

JamesB797 said:


> Wow. The warmth is back. The bass is back. The treble isn't wack! Buying thousands of dollars of gear and feeding it with garbage power was a bad idea after all. Totally satisfied, will definitely consider Furman for audio setups in the future. The noise is gone and I don't get the feeling I'm listening to a carbonated drink anymore.
> 
> Honestly it's not that big of a difference, but whatever was in there before that was making the WA6-SE close to unlistenable is gone and I'm happy.





JLoud said:


> Glad it solved the problem. It definitely helped my system as well.


I purchased the Furman 8-DIG a couple of months ago, which replaced my 25+yr old Adcom ACE-515. I bought the 8 just so I could plug all of my gear into it, (as well as for surge protection, of course) being the 515 was limited to receptacles for the amount of gear I'm using. I found the 8 to very slightly warm the sound being the 3 digital receptacles are filtered and I have my ultraRendu, KTE SU-1 and KTE Spring DAC plugged into them.
Out of curiosity I tried plugging my amps into the digital receptacles and found the amps to suffer from dynamic loss.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wow, holy moly, my new (to me) WA5 arrived from Joe at Abyss, good Lord. I don’t think I’ve ever really heard height portrayed with headphones, on my 1266 and ZMF Autuers, it giving me goosebumps and this is with the stock tubes!!! I want to get a better feel for the Amp before I dive down that rabbit hole. 

Call me a convert to the House of Woo!


----------



## pippen99

I miss mine.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I still remember listening to it at the Meet in Nashville, I’m still blown away! Does your LAu convey  a similar soundstage? Are you planning on coming to the Bluegrass Meet?


----------



## pippen99

I was planning on selling both to fund a WA33 but then got caught up in Zach's offerings and that plan blew up(plus going a bit overboard on the new car).  I don't remember much difference in soundstage between the two.

Absolutely will be there.  I would never miss an opportunity to reconnect with Zach and Bevin.


----------



## Mikey99

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Wow, holy moly, my new (to me) WA5 arrived from Joe at Abyss, good Lord. I don’t think I’ve ever really heard height portrayed with headphones, on my 1266 and ZMF Autuers, it giving me goosebumps and this is with the stock tubes!!! I want to get a better feel for the Amp before I dive down that rabbit hole.
> 
> Call me a convert to the House of Woo!


I have been very tempted by the WA5. Good to hear that it plays well with the Abyss!


----------



## Sound Eq

hi everyone, i bought a woo audio wa7 first gen, which has the upgraded tubes EH 6C45 Gold pins matched

can i ask what other tubes i can buy as i like to experiment with some tubes, most important to avoid tubes that add harshness


----------



## ajheyl

joseph69 said:


> Great to hear the hum is gone.
> Yeah, I'm not sure why, but I know from my experience with different rectifier tubes the trans will hum.
> When you get the chance buy yourself a Brimar 5Z4GY...inexpensive and you'll probably prefer it over the SP.


I have a hum in mine.  I wasn't sure if I needed a power conditioner.  I have the Sophia and the stock rectifier.    Looking to try something else fir fun but nothing too expensive.


----------



## joseph69

So why not try the Brimar I mentioned?
In my WA33 it is dead silent.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Had some matched 6SN7 tubes laying aroundl. So I pulled the GE Stocks and replaced them with a matched set of Sylvania 6SN7 Chrom Domes, damned sweet. So taking a dive down that rabbit hole.


----------



## Sound Eq

Sound Eq said:


> hi everyone, i bought a woo audio wa7 first gen, which has the upgraded tubes EH 6C45 Gold pins matched
> 
> can i ask what other tubes i can buy as i like to experiment with some tubes, most important to avoid tubes that add harshness



any advise please


----------



## attmci

Sound Eq said:


> any advise please


*Please email Mike@wooaudio.com for faster service.*


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone tried the WA6 first gen with an HEKv2?

Any impressions would be appreciated!  Thanks


----------



## UMN

Does anyone have any experience running a Raytheon RK-60 1641 rectifier in a WA-6? (My power tubes are Sylvania VT-231 / 6SN7 with Woo adapters) Thanks!


----------



## ksorota

Sound Eq said:


> any advise please



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-wa7-lcd-2f-dac-shoot-out-tube-guide-updated.763045/

Start here... I'm afraid your are going to find many more tube options when you pick up the tube power supply! 

The wa7tp with the siemmens silver plates is a great upgrade!


----------



## u2u2

UMN said:


> Does anyone have any experience running a Raytheon RK-60 1641 rectifier in a WA-6? (My power tubes are Sylvania VT-231 / 6SN7 with Woo adapters) Thanks!



I don't have experience with that tube in my WA6 but I would look to the following thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/

The general comments and rectifier descriptions have served me well as I built my modest collection.


----------



## N15M0

Can anyone recommend me some tubes upgrade for my WA5 LE? Thanks.


----------



## reeltime (Feb 22, 2019)

For rectifiers, if your budget is tighter, go for the EML Labs 5U4G Mesh. Terrific tubes, and reasonable. My personal favorite is the old metal base GZ-34-- mine are from 1957 bought as new-old-stock. It is an ugly ugly stubby tube, but there's no denying the sound. Difficult to find a matching pair, and they can be pricey. If you have unlimited funds, go for the Takatsuki 274B. Great tubes. Best in class. Skip the Sophia and PSVane tubes.

Driver Tubes: I've tried more driver tubes than any other. I've settled on Tung Sol 6SN7s with round plates. I've heard nothing better and they're the most reasonable of the tubes to purchase. The worst tube I've heard in this category is the PSVane 181s. Avoid them.

Power Tubes: How much do you want to spend? I have the Takatsukis. No complaints at all. They are not cheap in any way, but the sound is magic. They are as good as you can get without buying vintage Western Electric 300Bs-- which can run $10k. Western has begun manufacturing a new run of 300Bs for the first time in 20 years. I have a pair on order, when will they get here, who knows? Elrogs are just as good as the Takatsukis, at a lower cost, but mine blew up after a year. They reportedly have solved the problem, but I'm not taking that chance ever again, since they didn't replace my blown tubes-- so Elrog is dead to me. The one tube I'd recommend if your budget is limited is the EML 300B Mesh. Beautiful looking tube, *only* $1000 dollars/pr. And about 85% of the sound of the more costly options. You won't be disappointed. I would avoid the Sophia 300B, personally. I preferred the EML.


----------



## N15M0

Where can I find the Takatsukis? Can’t really seems to find them.


----------



## JLoud

I will second the recommendation of the EML tubes. I settled on the 300b and 5U4G mesh. Beautiful sounding and seem well built. I have been running them for a year with no issues. If you shop around can be found for $800 a pair.


----------



## N15M0

JLoud said:


> I will second the recommendation of the EML tubes. I settled on the 300b and 5U4G mesh. Beautiful sounding and seem well built. I have been running them for a year with no issues. If you shop around can be found for $800 a pair.



Thanks. But where can I find the EML tubes. Can’t seems to find them in stock.


----------



## joseph69

N15M0 said:


> Thanks. But where can I find the EML tubes. Can’t seems to find them in stock.


Here


----------



## phase0

I have some Tung-Sol Round Plate 6F8Gs I'm not using if anyone wants... These were the best I could find for the WA5 drivers (needs an adapter)... I liked the EML 300B, the Taks are a clear step up but very costly (worth it if you can afford it IMO). That's all I have experience with there. The Brimers are good cheap rectifiers (5R4GY?).


----------



## JLoud

I bought mine at the tubeaudiostore.com.  Have to call or email. They put me on list and it took about two weeks to come in. They are out of stock often but they will order more if requested.


----------



## JLoud

The link posted above is also a good source. Bought tubes from them as well.


----------



## N15M0

Thanks guys, i have dropped them an email. 

Btw sophia are not recommended?


----------



## reeltime

N15M0 said:


> Btw sophia are not recommended?



I'm just not a huge fan of the Sophias. They look nice enough. Reasonable bass, but the clarity and soundstage aren't up to par, in my experience. It kind of bunches up the sound. This may be because the Sophias aren't true mesh plates, unless Sophia has redesigned them. They are actually stamped mesh plates, not woven wire. Whatever the reason, though they glow nicely, It's just an OK tube, not a "wow" tube. Not worth the money, IMO.

The WA-5 is so revealing-- the amp found the tubes' weaknesses and put them on display. There's a fairly huge jump in sound quality from the Sophia tubes to the EML.


----------



## N15M0

reeltime said:


> I'm just not a huge fan of the Sophias. They look nice enough. Reasonable bass, but the clarity and soundstage aren't up to par, in my experience. It kind of bunches up the sound. This may be because the Sophias aren't true mesh plates, unless Sophia has redesigned them. They are actually stamped mesh plates, not woven wire. Whatever the reason, though they glow nicely, It's just an OK tube, not a "wow" tube. Not worth the money, IMO.
> 
> The WA-5 is so revealing-- the amp found the tubes' weaknesses and put them on display. There's a fairly huge jump in sound quality from the Sophia tubes to the EML.




Thanks man hopefully they reply me on the EML tubes. I went to audition the WA33 end up buying the WA5. Haha.


----------



## Zhanming057

On a non-tube-related note...I've been really enjoying this combination


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Just changed my Rectifier Tubes from the Stock Sophia’s to a pair of Sylvania/Western Electrics, holly moly! I’ve changed my Drivers to Sylvania “Bad Boys,” and now this, even with the Sophia 300Bs it is a huge change for the better!


----------



## llamaluv

N15M0 said:


> Thanks. But where can I find the EML tubes. Can’t seems to find them in stock.



The two places I've contacted when getting EMLs are TubesUSA (EML page link) and JAC Music (pricelist link). The latter is in Germany and entails having to manually fill in a form to get a price quote, FWIW.



N15M0 said:


> Where can I find the Takatsukis? Can’t really seems to find them.



Woo will sell them gleefully to you for $1,095 (link).


----------



## joseph69

N15M0 said:


> Thanks man hopefully they reply me on the EML tubes. I went to audition the WA33 end up buying the WA5. Haha.


Did you audition the WA33 at CanJam NYC?
What were you impressions between the 33/5?


----------



## N15M0

joseph69 said:


> Did you audition the WA33 at CanJam NYC?
> What were you impressions between the 33/5?



I tried at my local reseller, they’ve both available for demo. I was trying with the LCD4, which is what I would be using at home, and I simply prefer the WA5 on the LCD4 compared to the WA33. For some reason, the WA5 felt more powerful on the LCD4.


----------



## fhuang

Stereolab42 said:


> Wanted to try some different 300Bs on my WA5, aside from the SERPs and EML 300B meshes that I've been using for years. PSVane has gotten some attention for the WE replicas, so I decided to try their latest TOTL offering, the 300B Plus, which was easily available on eBay:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Pair-P...rn-Electric-300B-Replica-Upgrade/322886741261
> 
> ...




How do you like them so far, with more burn in?  I have those, first version with the wooden box few years back.  I've heard that the difference between mine and yours is, yours has been burned in/tested 100 hours before being shipped out


----------



## Stereolab42

fhuang said:


> How do you like them so far, with more burn in?  I have those, first version with the wooden box few years back.  I've heard that the difference between mine and yours is, yours has been burned in/tested 100 hours before being shipped out



They still sound great. I bought them to replace yet another pair of SERPs that had gone bad. As I've said before I love the SERPs also but Sophia Electric has never been able to overcome their reliability problems. The EMLs I used as backup have been rock-solid and so far the PSVANEs have been too.


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 5, 2019)

WA2 owner.  Been blown away for the past couple of months using a pair of Telefunken ECC801s as my driver tubes. You'll of course need 12AT7 to 6922/E88CC adapters. Great synergy with my GEC 6AS7G's power and Marconi U709 rectifiers.
Along those lines I've read that GEC A2900's are the absolute premier 12AT7 type tube...but that it has a higher amplification factor than others in the family. Has anyone here tried them with the WA2? Are they compatible or might they cause damage to the WA2 ???
Would appreciate any input.
http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/pdf/a2900.pdf


----------



## Mobil (Mar 20, 2019)

Trying the Sophia Aqua 274b


----------



## attmci

Badas said:


> That is not my situation.
> 
> I transferred all my tubes to an older WA22. Dead quiet.
> 
> ...


I push this one because at the end of the day, we found his transformer is bad..................


----------



## Odin412

Question for the tube gurus in this thread: Will the Shuguang WE6SN7Plus (WE 412A replica) tube work with the WA3? The link to the tube is here: http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/sto...lack-plate-curvy-vacuum-tubes-pair-or-single/

The description says that it's (almost) a replica of WE 421A, which is listed as compatible with the WA3, but the name says 6SN7Plus, which is not on the list.

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas!


----------



## Hyde8767

thecrow said:


>


That's a worthy final wish


----------



## thecrow (Apr 9, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Just changed my Rectifier Tubes from the Stock Sophia’s to a pair of Sylvania/Western Electrics, holly moly! I’ve changed my Drivers to Sylvania “Bad Boys,” and now this, even with the Sophia 300Bs it is a huge change for the better!


I have a friend who bought a wa5 that he really enjoyed. Then he upgrade some of the tubes - the big ones whatever they are - and he waa hugely impressed

The cost of the upgrades is what holds me back.
I could sell off some gear and stretch my budget and explode my next 12 month budget on audio but that just gets me a stock wa5 amp. And i know how satisfying upgrading my wa2 tubes were and how there is no way i could just sit on stock tubes for the wa5. I’m useless like that

Anyhow i am happy with my setup (mostly) so i’ll keep these distant desires away

I’ll just keep happily upgrading headphones and odds and ends like that each year or so


----------



## Wildcatsare1

That would be the 300B Tubes, yes, some of the manufacturers are quite proud of their glass bottles. I switched out the rectifiers and 6NS7 tubes with NOS Sylvanias, to good effect. Ordered some TJ Full Music 300 B, somehow they managed to cut my address in half, they were returned as “no such address” and were lost, or so I’m told. The TJ Folks aren’t being helpful in getting new ones sent or my money back, as of now I wouldn’t recommend doing business with them.


----------



## JLoud

I'm using Emission Labs 300B tubes and am very happy. Total cost of a pair was around $700. Well worth the cost.


----------



## SkyWalker2

WooAudio said:


> *What's the difference between the LEVEL switch and HP Output switch? *
> First of all, both the XLR and 1/4" output are active the same time. The HP POWER HI / LO switch select the headphone power output model between high and low power. It affects both outputs the same time. When it is on HI Power, the max output on the headphone outputs is about 8w. On the LO Power, the outputs are approx 1.5w. This is NOT a gain control switch. It switches between Plate output (HI) or Cathode output (LO) of the 300B tubes. To explain the technical differences, we will have to open up a whole new topic so we are not discussing here.. For us to understand,  this switch selects different part of the 300B tube to get high or low power output to the headphones.



Hi Jack! Could you please confirm if the first gen wa5 has the same feature - switch between Plate and Cathode output of the 300B? If so what mode switch positions corresponds to? SPK (plate, low transformer output), K1K (plate, high trans output), SPL (cathode, low), SPH (cathode, high) - correct?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hi All & Jack (@WooAudio )

I was digging through my tube hoard and discovered that I have two 6SN7 to 6922 converters, will 6922 tubes work in place of the 6SN7s, could it harm my amp?

Also, I’m really having trouble with the TJ FunMusic people, bought a pair of 300B Mesh Plates, they somehow butchered my address, cutting the street in half. They made it to Kentucky, then were returned to the International PO at O’hare. Instead of admitting they screwed up, they are trying to tell me to pay 50% for another pair that they’ll “refund” once they get the originals back. I truly think they have them back, but their story is the tubes are “in Switzerland,” which I seriously doubt, they have a Kentucky Zip Code, no reason USPS would have forwarded them to Europe.  Any advice in resolving this problem is appreciated, in the meantime Buyer Beware!!!1


----------



## WooAudio

SkyWalker2 said:


> Hi Jack! Could you please confirm if the first gen wa5 has the same feature - switch between Plate and Cathode output of the 300B? If so what mode switch positions corresponds to? SPK (plate, low transformer output), K1K (plate, high trans output), SPL (cathode, low), SPH (cathode, high) - correct?



You got it correctly.


----------



## Porteroso

Revisiting this thread, as I'm almost moving in an opposite direction as you guys. Over the past few years, been using a WA6, with copper rectifier, and either the TS round plate VT-99, or the NU VT-99. Both are tube sets to dream for.

A month ago or so, I checked into this thread, and phase was trying to unload some TS 6F8G. I asked how much, then he told me, and it got me rethinking my use of the TS/NU 6F8G. I'm actually moving towards less and less critical listening on my computer, where my headphones are, as life gets more busy. I have a bunch of cheap (at least, when I bought them) options, russian tubes, the RCA 6F8G, and just for fun, I'm going to see how much the RCA/copper rectifier combo impacts my listening, versus TS round plate/U52. I bet I'll be able to live with it. Why waste great irreplaceable tubes, when maybe I'll end up with a WA5 some day?


----------



## Xecuter

Hi guys,
I thought I would post here before I posted on the FS thread. I have a matched quad of gorgeous NOS NIB avvt 2a3 mesh which is the perfect compliment for wa33, only problem is matched quads of avvt are unheard of.





Never been used. Recent test results. 
I have perfect rep on head-fi, SNA and 'the other forum'
Looking for 5kaud/3.5k usd. This includes express shipping (insurance up to you). Will move the post to the 'for sale area' in a week or so once wa33 owners have had a chance to buy first.


----------



## comzee

Xecuter said:


> Hi guys,
> I have a matched quad of gorgeous NOS NIB avvt 2a3 mesh which is the perfect compliment for wa33, only problem is matched quads of avvt are unheard of.



Rare to see these pop up in such pristine condition as a quad. I only own a pair, but the best 2a3 I've ever heard. glws


----------



## Craig Fralick

audioadvocate said:


> Hello fellow Woo-owners,
> 
> I bought the WA22 a few months ago for use with my HD800s headphones.  This amp/headphone combination provides an aurally-holographic experience with great recordings.  I spend lots of time with classical music, which is a potent "tool" to evaluate the quality of electronics.  The 1st generation WA22 with the HD800s headphones would literally recreate the actual location of instruments in a full, 88-piece orchestra.  Very few non-classical recordings are so dependant upon width and depth of soundstage.  Solo jazz singers with just a few instruments on some older Chesky recordings allow for recreation of instrument positions in that soundstage, and allow for the "air" in recordings that has been talked about in "underground" audiophile journals like The Absolute Sound or Stereophile.  But if you want to experience the resolving power of this equipment, you need to use simple stereo or binaural mic techniques and avoid close-miked recordings.
> 
> ...


Have you had a chance to listen to the second generation WA22? I’m looking for that first tube amp and it seems like a good choice for the buck, just not 100% sure yet.


----------



## moemoney

Craig Fralick said:


> Have you had a chance to listen to the second generation WA22? I’m looking for that first tube amp and it seems like a good choice for the buck, just not 100% sure yet.


 I just purchase one a few months ago I can’t saying how it compares to the first ver. but I will say I’m very impressed with the sound. It’s very addictive and I find myself listening to it for hours and hours but I guess coming from Solid State (Ayre Codex) that’s what you can expect, I guest.


----------



## DavidRoss007

I have had my Wa6 2nd Gen for a couple of years and I am very happy with it. I think it would be time to try some tube rolling and not having much experience with this, I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. My music preference is typically classical and various laid back/easy listening but I am looking to build a system with a bit more "umph" for the heavier music I listen to. My gear is as follows.

Wa6 2nd Gen
Sophia Princess
6GL7 with adapters
Cambridge Audio Dacmagic 100
Q701
Lenovo P50

Thanks for reading.


----------



## jerick70

DavidRoss007 said:


> I have had my Wa6 2nd Gen for a couple of years and I am very happy with it. I think it would be time to try some tube rolling and not having much experience with this, I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. My music preference is typically classical and various laid back/easy listening but I am looking to build a system with a bit more "umph" for the heavier music I listen to. My gear is as follows.
> 
> Wa6 2nd Gen
> Sophia Princess
> ...


What's your budget? What kind of "heavy" music do you listen to? Do you want to stay with a tube amp or will a hybrid or pure solid state be fine.


----------



## Porteroso

You should read Dubstepgirl's thread on rectifiers, it's the best guide to rectifiers out there.

For the driver/power tubes, if you don't want to use adapters, your options are somewhat limited. There are a lot of great 6SN7 tubes out there, and if you get adapters, 6F8G (the military designation was VT-99). That's what I have the most of. I remember getting some Melz 6H8C, and others. 

Maybe look up Woo's tube compatability sheet, and go from there? If you have any specific questions, it will be easier to help with that.


----------



## DavidRoss007

jerick70 said:


> What's your budget? What kind of "heavy" music do you listen to? Do you want to stay with a tube amp or will a hybrid or pure solid state be fine.



Budget no more than $500, but would prefer less. Music is Rush, Queen, that kinda music. I have no experience with an ss amp but I do like the "warmth" of the tubes. Not a big fan of the "stark" sound of music. I have been a musician for over 30 years so I have a decent handle on how I like my music. Thanks for replying.


----------



## VandyMan

I have a WA-6 SE. I found that the "596 USAF Tube With Adapter (New Old Stock)" that Woo sells for $350 made a worthwhile difference. Small boost to the low-end and more warmth in the mid-bass, to my ears.


----------



## jerick70

DavidRoss007 said:


> Budget no more than $500, but would prefer less. Music is Rush, Queen, that kinda music. I have no experience with an ss amp but I do like the "warmth" of the tubes. Not a big fan of the "stark" sound of music. I have been a musician for over 30 years so I have a decent handle on how I like my music. Thanks for replying.


Your budget takes you out of the higher end Woo offerings. Tube rolling may do what you want, but I'm leaning more toward adding a second amp to your chain. I'll list a few options that I recommend in that price range.... I won't recommend anything the I've not owned or had significant listening time with.... 

1) Gustard H10 with Burson v5 opamp upgrade - I owned this for quite a while. I still miss it after owning quite a few more expensive amps. Very liquid, smooth, and refined with tons of detail and nice bass.  This amp will work really well for what your looking for. 

2) Elekit TU-8200 - you have to solder this one yourself but it is an incredible amp. It will drive efficient speakers too. 

You may want to get another pair of headphones instead and not add an amp. 

1) Massdrop Senn HD6xx

2) Massdrop Fostex TR-X00 Ebony

3) iBasso SR1


----------



## Porteroso

Wait, is he looking for a new amp, or for tube rolling? He said tube rolling.....


----------



## jerick70

Porteroso said:


> Wait, is he looking for a new amp, or for tube rolling? He said tube rolling.....


Lol  you are absolutely right my friend. Bad reading comprehension day for me....


----------



## Porteroso

All good  that would be a very limiting budget indeed.

I think with that budget, don't worry about the high end rectifiers. Brimar or copper cap is what I'd go with. The best rectifiers are very expensive, much more than the best power/drivers. 

Power/driver tubes get plenty expensive, and there is a bigger difference, imo, in the sound quality, so stick with them.


----------



## VandyMan (May 11, 2019)

Porteroso said:


> I think with that budget, don't worry about the high end rectifiers. Brimar or copper cap is what I'd go with. The best rectifiers are very expensive, much more than the best power/drivers.
> 
> Power/driver tubes get plenty expensive, and there is a bigger difference, imo, in the sound quality, so stick with them.



It is not really clear to me what driver tubes can be used with the Woo 6SE 2nd edition. That was why I updated the rectifier tube first. I'm pretty happy with the sound, it was a nice improvement, so I will not bother upgrading the driver tubes for awhile. (Plus, I just bought new tubes for my WA5 LE, so my tube budget is gone and then some.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml

The spreadsheet makes it seem like the 2nd edition can use all the same tubes as the old WA 6SE, but I don't think that is the case. Perhaps someone has a newer version of the spreadsheet?


----------



## DavidRoss007

Porteroso said:


> All good  that would be a very limiting budget indeed.
> 
> I think with that budget, don't worry about the high end rectifiers. Brimar or copper cap is what I'd go with. The best rectifiers are very expensive, much more than the best power/drivers.
> 
> Power/driver tubes get plenty expensive, and there is a bigger difference, imo, in the sound quality, so stick with them.


As silly as this may sound, would a higher budget yield a more superior difference in sound quality?


----------



## elira

VandyMan said:


> The spreadsheet makes it seem like the 2nd edition can use all the same tubes as the old WA 6SE, but I don't think that is the case. Perhaps someone has a newer version of the spreadsheet?


The 2nd gen uses 13V tubes while the first gen uses 6V tubes.


----------



## JLoud

I liked the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate rectifier. Nice sense of space and rich tone. More tubey sounding than the USTF 596 or solid state options. Also richer tonality then the Brimar imo. Run about $350 each.


----------



## Porteroso

DavidRoss007 said:


> As silly as this may sound, would a higher budget yield a more superior difference in sound quality?


Yes!

Among the best of the 6F8G, there is not a huge difference, but for me, the Tung Sol round plate, and the National Union VT-99 are incredible. Extremely close to each other. There is a bit of a falloff to the RCA 6F8G that I have, though it's great too. 

That said, when I was getting into 6F8G, I don't think it had quite caught on yet. I was able to snap up probably 10 pairs of TS and NU at maybe $40/pair, or less. Now, they are $200/pair, or more. If I was getting into it now, I'd say the RCA tubes are enough for me. 

By the way, I also didn't really read carefully, you are on a WA6SE, and I'm not sure that my tubes work with your amp, I have a plain WA6. It's been years since I rolled tubes, but I don't think you're supposed to use the 6F8G adapter with the WA6SE, right? In which case, I can't help much. btw the 596 is supposed to be a great rectifier, as the above poster mentioned. I'm sure it's better than the Brimar, though I'd get a few Brimars anyways, can't beat their value. (should be like 25 per rectifier)


----------



## DavidRoss007

Porteroso said:


> Yes!
> 
> Among the best of the 6F8G, there is not a huge difference, but for me, the Tung Sol round plate, and the National Union VT-99 are incredible. Extremely close to each other. There is a bit of a falloff to the RCA 6F8G that I have, though it's great too.
> 
> ...



I don't have a SE, its the second generation WA6.
Thanks for the comment.


----------



## Badas

Porteroso said:


> Yes!
> 
> Among the best of the 6F8G, there is not a huge difference, but for me, the Tung Sol round plate, and the National Union VT-99 are incredible. Extremely close to each other. There is a bit of a falloff to the RCA 6F8G that I have, though it's great too.
> 
> ...



Tung-Sol 6F8G is my go to driver. I snapped up 16 pairs. 5 years latter I still haven't gone through a set. 
I also snapped up 6 sets of NU VT-99. A little leaner but sweeter to my ear. Great tubes.


----------



## SonicTrance

Badas said:


> Tung-Sol 6F8G is my go to driver. I snapped up 16 pairs. 5 years latter I still haven't gone through a set.
> I also snapped up 6 sets of NU VT-99. A little leaner but sweeter to my ear. Great tubes.


Wasn't it 6C8G that you bought back then? I seem to remember that. Maybe you have 16 pairs of 6F8G as well what do I know 
Point is that 6C8G and 6F8G are very different tubes. They might look similar, or the same, but the operating points and tube characteristics are completely different.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I’m in need of assistance, my W5 started distorting this afternoon, I get music, but it’s mixed with white noise. Any idea which tube(s) I should look at first?


----------



## elira

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I’m in need of assistance, my W5 started distorting this afternoon, I get music, but it’s mixed with white noise. Any idea which tube(s) I should look at first?


If it's both channels I would take a look at the rectifiers. The other tubes should not interfere. If it's just one channel you can swap one by one to see which one has issues.


----------



## SonicTrance

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I’m in need of assistance, my W5 started distorting this afternoon, I get music, but it’s mixed with white noise. Any idea which tube(s) I should look at first?


Tap with your finger on the tubes, one at a time, and listen if the noise stops. It probably will.


----------



## Velozity

Badas said:


> Tung-Sol 6F8G is my go to driver. I snapped up 16 pairs. 5 years latter I still haven't gone through a set.
> I also snapped up 6 sets of NU VT-99. A little leaner but sweeter to my ear. Great tubes.




Care to part with a pair?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

elira said:


> If it's both channels I would take a look at the rectifiers. The other tubes should not interfere. If it's just one channel you can swap one by one to see which one has issues.



@SonicTrance , @elfary 

I’ve isolated the issue, it’s my Hugo2 DAC, with both optical and coax inputs, do you have experience with Chord (or any other DAC) doing this?


----------



## elira

Wildcatsare1 said:


> @SonicTrance , @elfary
> 
> I’ve isolated the issue, it’s my Hugo2 DAC, with both optical and coax inputs, do you have experience with Chord (or any other DAC) doing this?


I’ve had similar issues with other DACs but the issue was the computer that was connected to the DAC. Try rebooting your source.


----------



## thecrow

Wildcatsare1 said:


> @SonicTrance , @elfary
> 
> I’ve isolated the issue, it’s my Hugo2 DAC, with both optical and coax inputs, do you have experience with Chord (or any other DAC) doing this?


If i can throw @Currawong under the bus he had a couple of youtube videos on the hugo2 and he might be able to help. He seemed to be all over exactly how it works re interconnect options (pluses and minuses)

(I hope that’s ok Amos)


----------



## Badas

SonicTrance said:


> Wasn't it 6C8G that you bought back then? I seem to remember that. Maybe you have 16 pairs of 6F8G as well what do I know
> Point is that 6C8G and 6F8G are very different tubes. They might look similar, or the same, but the operating points and tube characteristics are completely different.



LOL. Right you are. I forget the codes now. I just use them.

I do have 6 sets of the of the 6F8G TS round plates as well + the small version (can't remember the code). I didn't hear a sound difference. Just a volume difference. 
The NU tubes can be a hit or miss. Some can be noisy.


----------



## Currawong

thecrow said:


> If i can throw @Currawong under the bus he had a couple of youtube videos on the hugo2 and he might be able to help. He seemed to be all over exactly how it works re interconnect options (pluses and minuses)
> 
> (I hope that’s ok Amos)



Yes. Sometimes a computer (or phone or tablet) can have issues sending to a DAC and with that you get distortion. The other thing that comes up (though more rarely) is if an amp has the volume control _not_ on the input, but after a gain stage (Audio-gd for example) and the input is being overloaded.  I don't remember offhand, but I think Woo Audio amps are all volume-control-on-input so I can't imagine this happening.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I substituted my Mojo and everything worked, I appreciate your advice. Could an amp throwing off a bit of dc damage a DAC? The follow up to that is are there any reports of the WA5 or Milo doing so?


----------



## ajheyl

dannie01 said:


> Hi buddy, I wonder to start this thread earlier when I received my amp and searched that there is no such tiltle so I start it. Please also state what headphone/s you're pairing with and how do you love the combo.
> 
> My WA6SE arrived by mid-March this year. I ordered a Sophia Princess 274B and two pairs 6EW7 along with the amp.
> 
> ...



I have the WA6 2nd Gen.  I don't do a lot of tube rolling. BUT I am finding that there is magic in swapping tubes around regardless or pricey vs more affordable.  I found that 13 FD7's Fat Bottles were lacking some power with the Sophia Princess.  The 13DE7's pumped it up a bit.   With a recommendation of the $35 Brimar NOS 5Z4G rectifier I wasn't wowed per se...but then I popped the Fat Bottles in and the Wow factor hit.  Just a lot more power with better bottom end.  I have several cans but seem to keep using my Focal Elears.


----------



## VandyMan

Will I damage the WA5 LE 2 if I have headphones plugged into both the single-ended and balanced headphone outputs at the same time? (I think it is ok, but the manual does not address it, so I want to be sure.)


----------



## Luke-

Hi 

I was hoping someone could give some impressions of what  WA7 Tps sounds like compared to the WA8 I’m thinking of selling my WA7 and trying WA8 I would like the best of both worlds portability and desktop.
I currently have the EH gold pins in the amp and Mullards in the power supply.

Any feedback would be great 

Thanks


----------



## JLoud

I've done this, but the issue is balancing volume. Unless you have two of the same headphones it will be difficult. Shouldn't be a problem unless both headphones are low impedance. Still wouldn't hurt to shoot Woo an email. They have responded to my emails rather quickly in the past.


----------



## adamaley

isquirrel said:


> The KR HP 300B Balloon and KR 274B HP are very very good. Consider I have Taks, WE's, Elrog's (new production and Elrog 274B) all my listening for the past 5 months has been KR HP 300B Balloon and 274B Rectifier. and they are great value for money. Forget everything you have previously heard of KR's these HP's are the business. Kudos to Joe > JPS Labs.



How would you describe the sound of the Elrog 274b compared to the other rectifiers, especially the Tak rectifier? Did you have a preference?


----------



## isquirrel (Jun 14, 2019)

Short answer - No

Long version - Read on

With the arrival of the Abyss TC's, which have an excellent mid-range now, I switched back to the Tak 300B's and 274B's. Overall I would have to say the Tak 274B is right up there amongst rectifiers. I found that whilst the sound was first rate running all Taks, I wanted something without the traditional 300B signature for a change (and that's all it was, a change of personal preference at that point in time) I switched to an all Elrog system 300B's + 274B's. I find them to be faster and more transparent and for a change not the traditional 300B's sound.

To my surprise they go with the new Abyss TC's very well, have excellent bass, midrange and so on. As of right now the Elrog's are my listening preference, although that will most likely change with the imminent arrival of an Air Tight ATM-300r. My plan is to connect the Headphones to the speaker Taps. Air Tight offer the Takatsuki 300B's as their TOTL option and preference. The Air Tights run a 5U4GB I am waiting for a response from them re using a 274B instead as a rectifier.

Desert Island choice would be very tough. However it would have to be the 274B Elrog's + Elrog 300B's if you can't or don't run the Elrog 300B's go Takatsuki 274B's - the new production Elrog's  have been running for +1,500 hours with zero issues.

Note: The Elrog's clearly sound they're best when they are used as a set, whereas you can mix and match with the Takatsuki's.


----------



## adamaley (Jun 14, 2019)

Thanks for the detailed explanation. There isn't much information out there regarding the Elrog 274b so forgive my sidetracking this thread from Woo Audio related discussion.

Interestingp point regarding the Elrogs working as a group synergistically. I currently use the Tak rectifier in my Golden Gate 2 DAC paired with 242 output tubes. I use the Elrog 300b tubes in my Line Magnetic 508ia amp. Thus far, the Tak recti has been preferred over the RK 5U4G KR recti because it layers better, has more harmonic content and weight of tone. However, the RK recti is quiter and slightly more resolving. This is all based on pairing with the 242 output tubes in the DAC.

Would you say the Elrog 274b bridges the qualities of both the KR 242 RK and the Tak recti as I've described them in my system?

Thanks in advance and apologies for non-Woo Audio talk.


----------



## isquirrel (Jun 17, 2019)

adamaley said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. There isn't much information out there regarding the Elrog 274b so forgive my sidetracking this thread from Woo Audio related discussion.
> 
> Interestingp point regarding the Elrogs working as a group synergistically. I currently use the Tak rectifier in my Golden Gate 2 DAC paired with 242 output tubes. I use the Elrog 300b tubes in my Line Magnetic 508ia amp. Thus far, the Tak recti has been preferred over the RK 5U4G KR recti because it layers better, has more harmonic content and weight of tone. However, the RK recti is quiter and slightly more resolving. This is all based on pairing with the 242 output tubes in the DAC.
> 
> ...



That's a hard one for me to answer as I have no experience with the KR 242 RK. The Elrog 274B is a fast, transparent rectifier, reminds of the Mullard GZ34 Metal Base Holland Prod 1957, however it has more texture and weight than the Mullard. IMHO discussion about output tubes is relevant to this forum. I make my comments as I find the sound experimenting with my Woo 234's MKI and MKII's. I also have a WA 33 Elite (for sale). So my experience is very limited as it only applies to these two amps. Most of my tube rolling has been done with the 234's over the past 6-7 years. The beauty of the 234 is the ability to mix and match 300B's, 5U4G's, 45's and 2A3's. If I try a new 300B, 45 & 2A3 I almost always use the Tak 274B to give me a reference point and roll from there. No doubt though its safe to say that generally EML's sound better when matched with EML's, same for Takatsuki's and most definitely with the Elrog's.

I plan to expand my tube experience by trying the different versions of Air Tight amps. I have in stock just about every modern 300B, 274B's and NOS WE 300B's + WE 274B's. The Elrog's and the Takatsuki's sit at the top of my preferences.

When you say KR 242 RK do you mean the HP versions of that tube?


----------



## Meanstreak242

I've been a pretty happy owner of a WA7(tp) for a while now.   My main headphones I use with them are the Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-2.  I've upgraded to the Electro-Harmonix tubes for the amp, and I'm using RCA 6350's in the power supply.  I'm very happy with the sound.  I do not use the onboard DAC though.   (My chain is a DigiOne signature via Roon going into my Chord Qutest via BNC, and then RCA out to the WA7.)  

Lately however, I find myself looking at the WA6-SE wondering if it's an upgrade or more of a side-grade.  I was hoping anyone here who's heard both could perhaps give me an opinion.   I don't use the DAC, and so I'm looking for opinions just based on the amp section alone.  I can't help but think that without the DAC usage, a lot of the cost of the WA7 is cosmetic.  (And don't get me wrong, it's a really nice looking setup.  But I'm more interested in sound quality than looks). Also would the low impedance and high sensitivity of the Focal Clears have any issues with the WA6-SE?  (They sound great with the WA7).  

Thank you all for your time.


----------



## ahossam

Hi guys.

I'm planning to get WA5 LE and I need DAC suggestion.

Right now I'm considering getting Chord Qutest to pair with WA5.

Thanks in advance for the suggestion and opinion.


----------



## JLoud

Meanstreak242 said:


> I've been a pretty happy owner of a WA7(tp) for a while now.   My main headphones I use with them are the Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-2.  I've upgraded to the Electro-Harmonix tubes for the amp, and I'm using RCA 6350's in the power supply.  I'm very happy with the sound.  I do not use the onboard DAC though.   (My chain is a DigiOne signature via Roon going into my Chord Qutest via BNC, and then RCA out to the WA7.)
> 
> Lately however, I find myself looking at the WA6-SE wondering if it's an upgrade or more of a side-grade.  I was hoping anyone here who's heard both could perhaps give me an opinion.   I don't use the DAC, and so I'm looking for opinions just based on the amp section alone.  I can't help but think that without the DAC usage, a lot of the cost of the WA7 is cosmetic.  (And don't get me wrong, it's a really nice looking setup.  But I'm more interested in sound quality than looks). Also would the low impedance and high sensitivity of the Focal Clears have any issues with the WA6-SE?  (They sound great with the WA7).
> 
> Thank you all for your time.


I used the WA6se with Mrspeakers Aeon closed which are 16 ohms. Sounded very good. In my opinion the wa6 is a clear step up from the firefly.


----------



## JLoud

ahossam said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I'm planning to get WA5 LE and I need DAC suggestion.
> 
> ...


I am currently using the Shiit Yggy a2 with my WA5le. Very nice combination.


----------



## pippen99

Before I sold my WA5(regrets) I paired initially with an Auralic Vega and then with my current PS Audio Directstream DAC.  Good sound and PS Audio continues to do free periodic firmware upgrades.


----------



## attmci

pippen99 said:


> Before I sold my WA5(regrets) I paired initially with an Auralic Vega and then with my current PS Audio Directstream DAC.  Good sound and PS Audio continues to do free periodic firmware upgrades.


Not many ppl use DS DAC here. However, here is a current review:
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/ps-audio-directstream-dac-snowmass-full-review-r819/


----------



## flea22

Meanstreak242 said:


> I've been a pretty happy owner of a WA7(tp) for a while now.   My main headphones I use with them are the Focal Clear and Audeze LCD-2.  I've upgraded to the Electro-Harmonix tubes for the amp, and I'm using RCA 6350's in the power supply.  I'm very happy with the sound.  I do not use the onboard DAC though.   (My chain is a DigiOne signature via Roon going into my Chord Qutest via BNC, and then RCA out to the WA7.)
> 
> Lately however, I find myself looking at the WA6-SE wondering if it's an upgrade or more of a side-grade.  I was hoping anyone here who's heard both could perhaps give me an opinion.   I don't use the DAC, and so I'm looking for opinions just based on the amp section alone.  I can't help but think that without the DAC usage, a lot of the cost of the WA7 is cosmetic.  (And don't get me wrong, it's a really nice looking setup.  But I'm more interested in sound quality than looks). Also would the low impedance and high sensitivity of the Focal Clears have any issues with the WA6-SE?  (They sound great with the WA7).
> 
> Thank you all for your time.


I've gone from a wa7tp with a qutest to a wa22 with the qutest in the last week and can say the wa22 is a big step up.


----------



## thecrow

ahossam said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I'm planning to get WA5 LE and I need DAC suggestion.
> 
> ...


Great incisive dac. 

I’ve heard them both separately and i would envisage it would be a great combo at that dac price point

I personally  have a metrum hex dac with my woo wa2 and that is a fantastic analogue sounding dac that i love. Not as incisive as the qutest and i feel the hex dac plays a big part in my sound (which i am 100% ok with) but the qutest os affected more by other elements in your system - which may make it a better option


----------



## ahossam

Waiting my WA5 LE, is the WA5 stock tube good enough? I mean when compared to WA8.

My wallet need to breath before getting tubes upgrades.


----------



## Hyde8767

Anybody with a WA11 know how it paid with audeze Lcdx


----------



## kartikey

Hi Guys, need some help with getting tubes for my new WA22. I recently purchased the TS5998 and found them increasing the bass. Super cool. For the driver tubes, I got advice to buy ECC35 but they are too expensive on eBay. I am looking for the next best alternative to give deeper bass if possible. I have considered psvane CV 181 T-2. Read in some other threads Shuguang doesn't resolve well. Any other options or psvane is my only upgrade option within the budget of not spending 300+ on a pair of drivers?


----------



## attmci

ahossam said:


> Waiting my WA5 LE, is the WA5 stock tube good enough? I mean when compared to WA8.
> 
> My wallet need to breath before getting tubes upgrades.


Nope. You need upgraded tubes. Probably the driver and rectifier tubes first.


----------



## pippen99

Agreed.  Although I would put upgrading power tubes ahead of rectifiers.


----------



## ahossam

Is sophia mesh plate tubes good enough for a start?


----------



## pippen99

Yes to the 274b rectifiers.  I would hold out for the Royal Princess 300B if you were set on Sophia.


----------



## ahossam (Jul 15, 2019)

pippen99 said:


> I would hold out for the Royal Princess 300B if you were set on Sophia.



What do you mean? should I get Royal Princess 300B instead of 300B Sophia Mesh Plate?

Sorry english is not my native language.


----------



## JLoud

The Emission Labs 300B tubes are nice. I am running them and Emission 5U4G mesh rectifiers. Sound very nice.


----------



## ahossam

JLoud said:


> The Emission Labs 300B tubes are nice. I am running them and Emission 5U4G mesh rectifiers. Sound very nice.



Yes, they are on my list too, how do you compare them to Sophia tubes?


----------



## JLoud

I've only listened briefly to the Sophia tubes at a Head-Fi meet. But compared to the Brimar and Treasure tubes the Emissions seemed to have a bigger sound stage and more natural timbre. I've used them on a couple of Woo amps and have been very happy. If you shop around they can be found for about $700 a pair. I think I had $1500 total in a pair of 300B and 5U4G with shipping.


----------



## pippen99

ahossam said:


> Yes, they are on my list too, how do you compare them to Sophia tubes?


The Princess 300B was what I had in my WA5 while I had it.  I was very satisfied with their performance.


----------



## reeltime

I'm not a huge fan of the Sophia sound. I wouldn't bother with the regular princess, I'd opt for the EMLs as an entry level tube and step up from there. The EMLs will last a long time, I ran mine for years and I still sold them for a reasonable price.

The Takatsuki is still the top tube for this amp (both rectifier and power), pending the arrival of the new Western Electric 300B sometime this year or next. It's the only tube on the horizon that could potentially give the Taks a run for their money.

I was a huge fan of the Elrog sound, just as good as the Taks to my ears, but one of my version 1 300Bs blew at 13 months (like many others), one month out of warranty and Elrog didn't honor it, so when the redesign came out (presumably a model that wouldn't blow up after a year) I passed on them. Fool me once. I replaced the Elrogs with the Tak 300B.

I'm still running 1957 GZ34 matched pair for rectifiers. I love the richness they provide. They aren't flashy or pretty, but the sound is top-grade, better than the EML, in my opinion.

I will someday try Taks for 274 rectifiers, but I'm happy with where the sound is and feel no need to upgrade. 

Driver tubes-- I've tried a bunch. I've been on Tung Sol round plate 6SN7s for a long time. A bad pair of drivers is instantly recognizable and harsh. A good pair of any brand will do the job well and you'll know when you've got a decent pair.

Hope that helps.


----------



## attmci

reeltime said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the Sophia sound. I wouldn't bother with the regular princess, I'd opt for the EMLs as an entry level tube and step up from there. The EMLs will last a long time, I ran mine for years and I still sold them for a reasonable price.
> 
> The Takatsuki is still the top tube for this amp (both rectifier and power), pending the arrival of the new Western Electric 300B sometime this year or next. It's the only tube on the horizon that could potentially give the Taks a run for their money.
> 
> ...


The price of WE422A are very reasonable now.


----------



## isquirrel

Thought I would give everyone an update on the Elrog new production Tubes.

I am running the 300B and 274B. I have gone back and forth trying out different combinations and come to the conclusion that the Elrog's are the best tube IMHO. *The reliability issues have been fixed* and mine have well over 2,000 hours on them and they still sound as strong as the day they went in. The new Elrog 274B rectifier is faster and more transparent than the Takatsuki and has excellent bass response. The build quality is superb. I find the combination better than any other, I spend 50% of my time listening to the Stax 009S and 50% listening to the new Abyss TC which is totally different to previous versions.

I have hundreds of NOS valves all of them in great condition, if anyone needs 6SN7's I think I have just about every variety. Tung Sol Black Bases, Sylvannia Bad Boys and metal bases. I also have some Matched pairs of Mulard metal base GZ34 1956 & 1957 production. I also have some original WE 300B's and 274B's


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> *The reliability issues have been fixed*



I'm glad you're having luck with them. I refuse to support a company that sends out an $1100 dollar product that they know has a design flaw, only to tell its users, "Sorry about that, the new ones are much better, we promise, now if you'll just hand over that credit card info again..."

Nope. No thanks.


----------



## isquirrel (Jul 16, 2019)

Well call me silly then, however the SQ makes them special enough to warranty giving them another go.

In fact to be particular, its not even the same company it was bought by Thomas Mayer who redesigned the production process.


----------



## reeltime

isquirrel said:


> Well call me silly then, however the SQ makes them special enough to warranty giving them another go.



No judgement, I promise. To each his own. 

Personally, I don't care if they sound like angels farting. I won't buy from a company that doesn't stand by their work. It's a thing with me.


----------



## isquirrel

The history and information on what has happened is here: 

https://www.elrog.com


----------



## isquirrel

JLoud said:


> The Emission Labs 300B tubes are nice. I am running them and Emission 5U4G mesh rectifiers. Sound very nice.



EML make great sounding tubes for the price and you get a 5 year warranty. Do you prefer the Mesh plates over the normal plates?


----------



## reeltime

I liked the clarity and depth of the mesh plate. The normal plates for bass, though! 

Gotta hand it to EML. For about half the price, they're damn close to those top tier tubes.


----------



## isquirrel

The best of the EML's IMHO is the 45 Globe, they only made a few and its difficult to transport them as none of the tube assembly touches the glass. They sound deliciously sweet.


----------



## reeltime

Beautiful!

Looks like you can still get them from http://tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html

I'm on the pre-order list for the new Western Electric 300B tubes.


----------



## JLoud

I have and prefer the mesh. I would love to hear impressions of the new Western Electric 300B tubes. If and when they ever ship. I have been waiting for what seems like forever for them to come out.


----------



## kartikey

reeltime said:


> I liked the clarity and depth of the mesh plate. The normal plates for bass, though!
> 
> Gotta hand it to EML. For about half the price, they're damn close to those top tier tubes.



Hello, could please mention which normal plate tubes are you talking about for the bass? I am looking at several options for my WA-22 rectifier tube. I see Woo have a Sophia 274B on their site. But I had never heard of EL or Elrog tubes until I came across the last few posts. I am looking for something that will give me most bass! Could you please suggest?

Thank you.


----------



## reeltime

The EML 300B-XLS http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-XLS.htm

I can't speak to the V2 Elrogs. I don't have them and I haven't auditioned them.

EML offers the best bang for the buck, across their entire line. Not tops in sound quality, but just under that top tier (we're not talking massive degrees-- just slight differences), for most folks it's "close enough" because of the lower cost.

Click on the "Fake Mesh" link-- where they talk about the shortcomings of the punched plate Sophia tubes without naming them directly.

I have the Takatsuki 300B. In my WA-5LE V2, it's the best I've heard, but at twice the cost of the EML, it's nowhere near twice better than the EML.


----------



## kartikey (Jul 16, 2019)

reeltime said:


> The EML 300B-XLS http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-XLS.htm
> 
> I can't speak to the V2 Elrogs. I don't have them and I haven't auditioned them.
> 
> ...



That is a very good explanation thank you! Could you suggest a second-best driver tube too? I do not have money to tube roll and neither do I feel like spending insane money on ECC3X tubes. I understand they might be the best but somehow I cannot manage to spend on something because its rare. I have asked around multiple times and no one has responded to my question about psvane tubes. I read some old posts saying they are good and some people downright saying psvane will blow up.


----------



## attmci

kartikey said:


> That is a very good explanation thank you! Could you suggest a second-best driver tube too? I do not have money to tube roll and neither do I feel like spending insane money on ECC3X tubes. I understand they might be the best but somehow I cannot manage to spend on something because its rare. I have asked around multiple times and no one has responded to my question about psvane tubes. I read some old posts saying they are good and some people downright saying psvane will blow up.


I will avoid psvane.

The power and rectifier are much more expensive than the driver tubes............


----------



## reeltime

The PSVane driver that fits the WA5 is the 181. Avoid this tube at all and any cost. It sounds horrible, adding introducing what sounds to me like distortion through the upper mids. It's a very tight fit anyway. Get a traditional TS 6SN7. They sound good and they're relatively cheap. A hundred bucks will land you a decent pair. Add a few more if you want something a bit more special.


----------



## JLoud

I'm running Sylvania 6SN7 black base from mid 50's. Have green lettering. I've been very happy with them. Paid around $150 I believe.


----------



## kartikey (Jul 16, 2019)

Got it. I appreciate your inputs on psvane. I guess I am just gonna wait it out and save up for the Mullard ECC35s. Seems like there is a ton of bad stuff out there.


----------



## Porteroso

I have to agree, save up for the good tubes. That said, I am not using my good tunes atm on a wa6, and the rca tubes I'm using are totally fine. I would go ahead and buy some ok nos tubes, then save up for whatever sounds like the best to you.


----------



## kartikey

Do people have any opinion/experience with the EML 274b vs 5u4g both mesh? As both of them are compatible with my WA22 and both are the same price, I don't know what changes between the two. I couldn't find people comparing the 2 anywhere (after searching here and google).


----------



## isquirrel

kartikey said:


> Hello, could please mention which normal plate tubes are you talking about for the bass? I am looking at several options for my WA-22 rectifier tube. I see Woo have a Sophia 274B on their site. But I had never heard of EL or Elrog tubes until I came across the last few posts. I am looking for something that will give me most bass! Could you please suggest?
> 
> Thank you.


The best "Bass" tube I have come across is the KR 300HP Balloon tube. The Rectifier and Driver tubes are just as important in determining the sound you will arrive at. I like the Takatsuki 274B paired with the KR 300 HP Balloon but the KR 274B HP produces a bit more bass and is considerably cheaper.

The best 6SN7 driver tube without question is the Tung Sol Round Plates with oval Mica's circa mid to late 1940's US Army.

I have all of the above available if you are interested.


----------



## isquirrel

kartikey said:


> Do people have any opinion/experience with the EML 274b vs 5u4g both mesh? As both of them are compatible with my WA22 and both are the same price, I don't know what changes between the two. I couldn't find people comparing the 2 anywhere (after searching here and google).



I have both and its question I have been asking myself. They are both still shrink wrapped so I ts time I cracked them out and gave them a go. They will not be burned in but I should get a fairly good idea. The 5U4G is preferred by Woo as has a direct heater element so is safer and more stable under start up conditions than a 274B. That's not to say in any way the 274B is a bad tube its just a different design.

Give me a week and I will let you know. If you can send me a PM then I won't forget!


----------



## kartikey

isquirrel said:


> I have both and its question I have been asking myself. They are both still shrink wrapped so I ts time I cracked them out and gave them a go. They will not be burned in but I should get a fairly good idea. The 5U4G is preferred by Woo as has a direct heater element so is safer and more stable under start up conditions than a 274B. That's not to say in any way the 274B is a bad tube its just a different design.
> 
> Give me a week and I will let you know. If you can send me a PM then I won't forget!



I really appreciate this. I will patiently wait for your experience on the two tubes. Thanks!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hi All, 

Thinking about grabbing a raal headphone. 
So thinking about amplification. 

What are your guys thoughts on preamping from my WA33? Looking at schiit vidar and chord ttoby as speaker amps thus far.

Would their be a benifits to using my wa33 with nos tubes in the chain or jsut go direct from dac to the speaker amp?


----------



## isquirrel

matthewhypolite said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thinking about grabbing a raal headphone.
> So thinking about amplification.
> ...




The Raal's have been reviewed on Six Moons, the Reviewer used the Nagra Classic Amp with the Raal's. The impression I was left is they are difficult to drive and that they are not really a finished product yet.

From what he has said you would need at least 80-120 Watts per channel to drive them properly. Speaker amps do not lend themselves very well to driving headphones due to impedance and distortion issues. I asked AirTight directly for their response and that was the feedback they gave me.

I wish the best of luck on this project. Its not gong to be an easy one.


----------



## astrostar59

isquirrel said:


> The Raal's have been reviewed on Six Moons, the Reviewer used the Nagra Classic Amp with the Raal's. The impression I was left is they are difficult to drive and that they are not really a finished product yet.
> 
> From what he has said you would need at least 80-120 Watts per channel to drive them properly. Speaker amps do not lend themselves very well to driving headphones due to impedance and distortion issues. I asked AirTight directly for their response and that was the feedback they gave me.
> 
> I wish the best of luck on this project. Its not gong to be an easy one.



They have a supplied step up hoax that converts watts to current. It works very well, but as you say you do need 50W+ to drive the box. The demo at Can-Jam was using the Shlit Power amps and a Shlit DAC/pre amp. Sounded very good. If Shlit go and make an amp for it, it will be a complete solution then (practical).


----------



## astrostar59 (Jul 31, 2019)

*Anyone heard the Violectric V281 v the Woo Audio WA-5 LE on the 1266 Abyss?*
I heard the Abyss on the WA33 at Can-Jam on Sunday, and it was very nice. Wondering how the WA-5 LE would sound. I like wide band, transparency and not too much warmth / dampening of details. 

The V281 is a great all rounder SS amp, can't really fault it on much, but it isn't a tube amp, so some loss of timbre and realism maybe?

Any feedback would be great guys.


----------



## filip sebastian

Hello, for HD800, what is the best solution?  WA6 SE or WA7?


----------



## JLoud

I have the 1266TC and the WA5le. I really enjoy it. Has wonderful timbre and is still fast and detailed. I am considering a gsx-mini as a compliment but have no complaints with the Woo. By far my favorite amp.


----------



## astrostar59 (Jul 31, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I have the 1266TC and the WA5le. I really enjoy it. Has wonderful timbre and is still fast and detailed. I am considering a gsx-mini as a compliment but have no complaints with the Woo. By far my favorite amp.



Thanks for that information. I have heard the GSX MK2 2 box, and preferred the V281. The GSX was a bit cold and less solid sounding to my ear. That was on the LCD4. The Abyss is more transparent than the LCD4 so I am thinking a GSX MK2 or possibly the mini as well will be too bright, going in the wrong direction? I would possibly compliment your LCD4 better?


----------



## JLoud

The mini is supposed to be warmer than the mk2. But the WA5le is on the warm side of neutral. Not excessively but just enough to suit my tastes. That is why I was considering a ss amp for a contrast. But I do not want bright. That's why I am waiting till I can get a chance to demo some better ss amps, like the mini and the V281.


----------



## Cho Worsh (Jun 13, 2021)

attmci said:


> The price of WE422A are very reasonable now.


Ha! You make me laugh. Pay insane amounts for overrated tubes for overrated amps and rejoice!


----------



## Clive101

Hello All....
I have joined the club.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Clive101 said:


> Hello All....
> I have joined the club.


Nice, what rectifier and adaptor are you using?


----------



## Clive101 (Aug 2, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> Nice, what rectifier and adaptor are you using?



The rectifier is a USAF 569 with a Woo adaptor, hand picked by Jack at Woo, had a demo at London CamJam at the weekend and could not resist joining the Woo Club.

Any one else in the UK with a Woo WA33...?


Edit USAF 596


----------



## JLoud

I ran the 596 in my WA6se. Very fast sounding rectifier. At least that was my impression.


----------



## JLoud

Assuming you meant 596. Haven’t seen a 569 but my knowledge of tubes is not that extensive.


----------



## Clive101

JLoud said:


> Assuming you meant 596. Haven’t seen a 569 but my knowledge of tubes is not that extensive.


It seems my knowledge is even less... ..it is. I had to look up the number and then the typo....between you and me, my knowledge is zero, all I know they get very hot....
But glad I have tiptoed into the tube world


----------



## JLoud

Clive101 have you had a chance to compare your WA33 to the WA5? I really like my 5 but that 33 is drop dead sexy. Haven’t had a chance to hear one yet.


----------



## Clive101

JLoud said:


> Clive101 have you had a chance to compare your WA33 to the WA5? I really like my 5 but that 33 is drop dead sexy. Haven’t had a chance to hear one yet.


No, but I did compare with the Aries Cerat Genus.
Later next week I will be able to do a Dave-Msacler comparison. It was not too long ago when I had the demo of the Genus so not a direct A B but it may be of interest.
I must admit looking at this Amp with the USAF 596 does look the part....and at night the glow from those tubes...!


----------



## isquirrel

Clive101 said:


> Hello All....
> I have joined the club.


Is that a WA33 Elite?


----------



## Clive101

isquirrel said:


> Is that a WA33 Elite?


Sadly no, but perhaps next year...


----------



## ahossam

I'm planning to get EML 300B tube for WA5 LE, but can't decide which one to get the 300B, 300B Mesh or 300B XLS.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## JLoud

I believe the XLS is for high output. Not really needed on the WA5 LE. I went with the 300B, not mesh. It was described as having a more focused soundstage. The mesh supposedly has a bigger soundstage. At least that was how the distributor described it. Very happy with to regular 300B.


----------



## Gibson59

Posted in the WA22 thread but thought I might get more eyes here... is it common to have slight audible hum from a 2nd gen WA22? I’m using my HEKse and running single ended from my Chord Qutest. I’ve ruled out grounding issues and tried very tube combination I’ve got (which is a lot). Different tubes don’t seem to make a difference. 

Just got it back from Woo warranty repair and I’m still getting some hum. Otherwise they’ve been great to work with. Thought I’d ask around here before going back to them again.


----------



## JLoud

How is your incoming power? I live in an older neighborhood and had some issues with hum on my WA5le. Incoming power wasn’t very clean. Also appliances in the home were causing an issue. Added a PS audio Dectet and that helped. But in high gain I still have slight hum on efficient headphones. Nothing on my LCD4 or Abyss. But my HD800S and Sony Z1R has a small amount. Only noticeable when music isn’t playing.


----------



## Cho Worsh (Nov 12, 2019)

Gibson59 said:


> Posted in the WA22 thread but thought I might get more eyes here... is it common to have slight audible hum from a 2nd gen WA22? I’m using my HEKse and running single ended from my Chord Qutest. I’ve ruled out grounding issues and tried very tube combination I’ve got (which is a lot). Different tubes don’t seem to make a difference.
> 
> Just got it back from Woo warranty repair and I’m still getting some hum. Otherwise they’ve been great to work with. Thought I’d ask around here before going back to them again.


REVISED 10-28-19 

Suggestion: Try this low cost device between your source and the Woo. 
Boss Audio b25 N Ground Loop Isolator Noise Filter (around $18)

See if the hum is removed or goes down to next to nothing with Boss filter connected. If the hum is completely eliminated  or mostly goes away, you have a ground loop. If so, return the Boss and buy the better sounding Jensen CI-2RR ISO-MAX isolation transformer or trouble shoot your AC hookups to try and isolate the source of the ground loop. 

The EbTech Hum-X may also remove the hum if attached to the power cord of the Woo amp.


----------



## nishan99

What's the power output specs of the WA2?
can't find it on their page.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

nishan99 said:


> What's the power output specs of the WA2?
> can't find it on their page.



WA2 is OTL design, best paired with high impedance headphones above 150 Ohms. WA22 is a more modern design suitable for today’s headphones.


----------



## vlach (Aug 22, 2019)

I hope i won't get in trouble for doing this; i am doing a copy & paste from another forum member who had a question in 2009, to which i never saw a reply (the thread is no longer active).  I would be interested in the answer myself, here is the question:

"I have a question for any Woo Audio owners out there. The transformer coupled designs at WA typically are rated for a headphone impedance of 8-600 ohms. This seems extremely large to me. I know at least some of them (maybe all of them) have a high/low impedance switch, but something about the switch tells me that the switch isn't changing the tapping point of the transformer secondary (like changing between 16-8-4 ohm taps on a transformer coupled speaker amp). The only way I can see this working is that the transformer has a 4 or 8 ohm resistor in parallel with the headphone load and that most of the output power is dropped across this resistor, with the switch basically diverting the input signal through another resistor such that it effectively reduces the overall gain of the amplifier for lower impedance phones. I find this to be a little bit inelegant and certainly a waste of amplifier power and efficiency. Does anyone know how the WA amps drive such varied loads from it's output transformer?"


----------



## MasonStorm

Greetings all.  Has anyone used 5Z4 rectifiers in the WA-234?  Are they safe?  I see that 5Y3's and 5Z4's are on Woo's compatibility list for the WA-5, but they don't publish such a list for the WA-234.


----------



## ahossam

My WA5 LE with upgraded internals just arrive running it for about less than five hours, sounding amazing with just the stock tubes.


----------



## Roasty

I think i may have found my favourite tube combo for the wa22. 

Western Electric 421a
Sylvania 6SN7 GT bad boys
Emission Labs 274b

Completely black background. Clear sparkly highs without brightness. Nice and tight, textured bass. Layered music with nice soundstage, not congested at all.

The 6sn7 bad boys.. I guess the bad boy moniker is deserved. They do sound better than my other 6sn7 tubes (rca, tung sol, tall boys etc). Prat when called for, especially nice with rock. More forward presentation and very clear sounding. I actually like these tubes more than the Mullard ECC35.

Now I'm curious as to whether I will get even better sound with a We 274b or tak 274b.. Not sure if I wanna take the plunge and splurge on these tubes.

Can anyone chime in? Are the WE and tak rectifiers going to bring up the music to another level?


----------



## PatekBruguetMogul

ahossam said:


> My WA5 LE with upgraded internals just arrive running it for about less than five hours, sounding amazing with just the stock tubes.



I just ordered the WA5-B from WOO today and I am 2 weeks out on the build.. Yours looks really sweet..


----------



## PatekBruguetMogul

I just ordered and paid for a new WA5-B and my very first venture into a tube amp and excited about getting it. I found iout it does not come with either a power cord or a jumper between both units. I would like to bu ya high end power cable as well as the jumper and looking for suggestions... I ordered mine in black and already thinking i want to get those high end 300B's and 274's for it..


----------



## Astral Abyss

PatekBruguetMogul said:


> I just ordered and paid for a new WA5-B and my very first venture into a tube amp and excited about getting it. I found iout it does not come with either a power cord or a jumper between both units. I would like to bu ya high end power cable as well as the jumper and looking for suggestions... I ordered mine in black and already thinking i want to get those high end 300B's and 274's for it..



It comes with the umbilical cord.  It's proprietary, so would be impossible to buy separately. The only thing you will need to provide is a 3 prong power cord.


----------



## VandyMan

PatekBruguetMogul said:


> just ordered and paid for a new WA5-B and my very first venture into a tube amp and excited about getting it. I found iout it does not come with either a power cord or a jumper between both units.



It does come with a jumper. It is listed as "Umbilical DC cord x 1" in the parts list.

If you have a limited budget, I spend it on tube upgrades before getting a high-end power cord. Especially the 300Bs. I went with Western Electric replicas on mine and it made a very noticeable difference.


----------



## PatekBruguetMogul

Astral Abyss said:


> It comes with the umbilical cord.  It's proprietary, so would be impossible to buy separately. The only thing you will need to provide is a 3 prong power cord.



I am looking at the Kimber Power Cord 10AWG Wire ...?  Thanks for the heads up on jumper as i really need to read about what I am buying    I am really thinking to buy the High End  300B's and 274's for it to, but that's 4k in tubes..


----------



## JLoud

Pangea makes nice power cables without being stupid expensive. This is the link for a 2 meter 14 gauge cable. You don't need anything heavier, the wire in the wall going to your outlet is probably 14 gauge. 14 gauge will handle 15 amps with absolutely no issues. It is what I am running on my WA5.
https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14S2&opt=3634


----------



## phase0

PatekBruguetMogul said:


> I just ordered and paid for a new WA5-B and my very first venture into a tube amp and excited about getting it. I found iout it does not come with either a power cord or a jumper between both units. I would like to bu ya high end power cable as well as the jumper and looking for suggestions... I ordered mine in black and already thinking i want to get those high end 300B's and 274's for it..


I was shocked at how much tube upgrades impacted WA5 performance. IMO focus on tube upgrades now and leave the power cable for later unless you can afford to do both. I ran Takatsuki 300B and those were great. TungSol 6F8Gs were also my faves. Some people told me you don't need to go all out on rectifier. I was running Brimar 5R4GY (IIRC) and Mullard GZ-32... Also I never did upgrade my power cable but I'm pretty certain your best bang for the buck will be in tubes first then cables. Congrats on the new amp! It's a beast.


----------



## JLoud

I really like the Emission Labs rectifiers I am running. Their 300B is also excellent especially for the price. 90-95% of the Taks for 1/3 the price. IMO. They make a 5U4G and 274B rectifiers. I went with the 5U4G.


----------



## JLoud

I felt the rectifier definitely changed the sound. Effected the size of the soundstage and speed of decay.


----------



## Odin412

JLoud said:


> I felt the rectifier definitely changed the sound. Effected the size of the soundstage and speed of decay.



I have a WA6 and I've surprised at how much the rectifier can change the sound. My experience is that the rectifier has as much influence on the sound as the driver tubes. At the moment I'm running a vintage Mullard GZ37 that I'm enjoying a lot.


----------



## attmci (Sep 17, 2019)

PatekBruguetMogul said:


> I just ordered and paid for a new WA5-B and my very first venture into a tube amp and excited about getting it. I found iout it does not come with either a power cord or a jumper between both units. I would like to bu ya high end power cable as well as the jumper and looking for suggestions... I ordered mine in black and already thinking i want to get those high end 300B's and 274's for it..


High end 300B's and 274 cost more than the amp...........

I like WOO but their upgrade tubes cost a lot. For example:

https://wooaudio.com/tubes/rca-12au7-cleartop

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...x8AAOSwephc~ttv:sc:USPSFirstClass!08820!US!-1


----------



## joseph69 (Sep 17, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I really like the Emission Labs rectifiers I am running. Their 300B is also excellent especially for the price. 90-95% of the Taks for 1/3 the price. IMO. They make a 5U4G and 274B rectifiers. I went with the 5U4G.





JLoud said:


> I felt the rectifier definitely changed the sound. Effected the size of the soundstage and speed of decay.



I have the WA33 and I'm running S EML 2A3's and wanted to buy their 5U4G to compare to my UE 596. I mentioned this to another member who also has the WA33 running the M EML 2A3's and their 5U4G. Just so happens we were both considering purchasing each others tubes blindly, so we decided to send each other our rectifiers mentioned to compare side by side for 1 week each.

Both of agreed 100% that the 596 had a bigger sound stage, more speed, clarity and detail. The 5U4G sounded narrow, slow, darker and congested in comparison rison.Needless to say this saved me from buying the 5U4G, but he immediately bought the 596. I'm not saying that the 5U4G was bad, but nowhere near the performance of the 596 in our comparisons, or I would've definitely purchased it being I'm running EML's already.


----------



## JLoud

I found some decent prices on EML tubes at tubeaudiostore.com and tubeusa.com. Woo makes beautiful amps but are on the High side for tubes.


----------



## JLoud

I tried a pair of USAF 596 in my WA5le and found that while they seemed faster the soundstage was definitely not bigger. They sounded more "digital" and less analog. I would agree they sound darker, which is what I enjoyed about them. Could depend on source, or difference between the WA33 and WA5. And everything is in the "ears" of the listener.


----------



## attmci

JLoud said:


> I tried a pair of USAF 596 in my WA5le and found that while they seemed faster the soundstage was definitely not bigger. They sounded more "digital" and less analog. I would agree they sound darker, which is what I enjoyed about them. Could depend on source, or difference between the WA33 and WA5. And everything is in the "ears" of the listener.


Have u tried 422A?


----------



## Astral Abyss (Sep 18, 2019)

I'm really happy with the EML 274b in my WA6-SE.  To me, it's a nice improvement over the Sophia Princess 274b and the EML blue glass 5U4G that I also own... Albeit for almost 3x the price.


----------



## PatekBruguetMogul

Wanting to purchase a high end power cable for my newly ordered WA5 and want to keep it around USD$1000.00  ?


----------



## JLoud

I have not tried 422A. How does it compare. Particular brand recommended?


----------



## sillysally (Sep 20, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I tried a pair of USAF 596 in my WA5le and found that while they seemed faster the soundstage was definitely not bigger. They sounded more "digital" and less analog. I would agree they sound darker, which is what I enjoyed about them. Could depend on source, or difference between the WA33 and WA5. And everything is in the "ears" of the listener.


If you want the best of the best in your WE5le, I can highly recommend something like I have. Matched pair of Western Electric 300B made in 1956 and the same week in july, along with a matched pair of Tung Sol US Navy CTL 6SN7GT made in August 1942 and a matched pair of Emission Labs 5U4GM mesh plates.


----------



## sillysally

PatekBruguetMogul said:


> Wanting to purchase a high end power cable for my newly ordered WA5 and want to keep it around USD$1000.00  ?


Black Sands Z1 violet power cords, Iron Lung Jellyfish power cords


----------



## PatekBruguetMogul

sillysally said:


> If you want the best of the best in your WE5le, I can highly recommend something like I have. Matched pair of Western Electric 300B made in 1956 and the same week in july, along with a matched pair of Tung Sol US Navy CTL 6SN7GT made in August 1942 and a matched pair of Emission Labs 5U4GM mesh plates.



Thanks for such sound advice on 1940's things for my 2019 newly built amp..


----------



## attmci (Sep 20, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I have not tried 422A. How does it compare. Particular brand recommended?


I didn't roll rectifiers. I have mostly GZ34s including the metal one. But the WE 422A stays all the time with those clear-top 5998.

Do u think those 596s are overpriced? Jump from $10 to $100, and now to $200.


----------



## Roasty

Hey guys 

On my WA22 2nd gen

If I use:
Western Electric 421a or Tung Sol 5998 power tubes with ECC35 drivers, I get this moderately loud background hum from the left or right channel (it changes sides if I swap positions of either the power or driver tubes). 

However if I use:
1) 6080 power tubes with the ECC35 drivers, it's completely silent background. 
2) WE421A / TS 5998 with any non-ecc35 driver tubes, it's completely silent background. 

I guess that means the amplifier only produces the hum when combining we421a/5998 with ecc35 tubes? Has anyone else had this issue?


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Hey guys
> 
> On my WA22 2nd gen
> 
> ...


Never have this problem with various 421/5998/ECC35 combination. Something is wrong with one of your tubes.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> Never have this problem with various 421/5998/ECC35 combination. Something is wrong with one of your tubes.



I have:
1 pair matched we421a
1 pair matched TS 5998
2 pairs of matched mullard ecc35

The hum comes with any combination of the above. Can it be I hit the jackpot and all pairs are faulty?

But when I use we421a/5998 with non ecc35 drivers, or when I used ecc35 drivers with non 421a/5998 power, I don't get the hum.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> I have:
> 1 pair matched we421a
> 1 pair matched TS 5998
> 2 pairs of matched mullard ecc35
> ...


ECC35 has higher mu.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> ECC35 has higher mu.



Yep. But you have no issues on your own amp with those tube combinations giving me problems? What amp are you using?


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Yep. But you have no issues on your own amp with those tube combinations giving me problems? What amp are you using?


same as yours, first gen.


----------



## musicman59

PatekBruguetMogul said:


> Wanting to purchase a high end power cable for my newly ordered WA5 and want to keep it around USD$1000.00  ?


I highly recommend you Triode Wire Labs, I have some of them in my two channel and headphones equipment and I like them better than my WireWorld Electra and Silver Electra.
https://www.triodewirelabs.com/product-category/power-cords/


----------



## Gibson59

Anyone try the HEKse with a Woo WA6 or WA6se?

I ask because I’m using a WA22 currently with my HEKse (and LOVE the combo) but may need to downsize for various reasons.


----------



## UntilThen

Gibson59 said:


> Anyone try the HEKse with a Woo WA6 or WA6se?
> 
> I ask because I’m using a WA22 currently with my HEKse (and LOVE the combo) but may need to downsize for various reasons.



Don't give up the WA22 because in my opinion, it's great with the tubes I have in it. GEC U52, Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top and Tung Sol 5998. 

Despite having both ALO Audio Studio Six and Glenn OTL amp, I find the WA22 doing very well in this company. 2nd day using it with ZMF Verite Open headphone and I'm impressed with the WA22.


----------



## Thaddy

Does anyone have recent experience going from a WA2 to the WA22 2nd Gen?


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> Don't give up the WA22 because in my opinion, it's great with the tubes I have in it. GEC U52, Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top and Tung Sol 5998.
> 
> Despite having both ALO Audio Studio Six and Glenn OTL amp, I find the WA22 doing very well in this company. 2nd day using it with ZMF Verite Open headphone and I'm impressed with the WA22.


You have to get rid of that Sylvania 6sn7gtb ASAP.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> You have to get rid of that Sylvania 6sn7gtb ASAP.



I did last night and replace with this NOS pair of Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates with a beautifully constructed pair of adapters from Poland. I think it sound and looks a million now.  Last night I use only the WA22, not the GOTL and Studio Six. A bit strange considering how highly I regard those other 2 amps but the WA22 has exceeded my expectations with these tubes. Verite Open sound really good with Wa22 and these tubes. 

.... no noise. Very quiet in between songs.


----------



## PatekBruguetMogul

ahossam said:


> My WA5 LE with upgraded internals just arrive running it for about less than five hours, sounding amazing with just the stock tubes.



I have about 6 hours on my new WA5-B Upgraded and wow is the word for me. I bought a Marantz SA-10 for my source coupled with a set of Focal Utopia's and my first complete starter kit music setup..


----------



## UntilThen

PatekBruguetMogul said:


> I have about 6 hours on my new WA5-B Upgraded and wow is the word for me. I bought a Marantz SA-10 for my source coupled with a set of Focal Utopia's and my first complete starter kit music setup..



Very nice setup. What's a WA5-B Upgraded ? I was loan a WA5LE by a friend for 2 weeks some time ago. It had Takatsuki 300b tubes, Brimar CV1988 and EML mesh plates rectifiers. Very nice indeed. I could be tempted with a WA5LE.


----------



## Gibson59

UntilThen said:


> Don't give up the WA22 because in my opinion, it's great with the tubes I have in it. GEC U52, Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top and Tung Sol 5998.
> 
> Despite having both ALO Audio Studio Six and Glenn OTL amp, I find the WA22 doing very well in this company. 2nd day using it with ZMF Verite Open headphone and I'm impressed with the WA22.



Don’t worry I’m not giving up on it. Although I did just purchase a WA6 2nd gen from a fellow member here. I’m excited to do an A/B comparison of the two! With my easy to drive HEKse I’m so curious what the sonic difference is. I’ll be using a Chord Qutest DAC with both.


----------



## JLoud

I believe a WA5-B is just designating the color. So does it have speaker taps in the back? The WA5 does, the WA5le does not. Only difference. Other than the WA5 already has the upgrades.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I did last night and replace with this NOS pair of Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates with a beautifully constructed pair of adapters from Poland. I think it sound and looks a million now.  Last night I use only the WA22, not the GOTL and Studio Six. A bit strange considering how highly I regard those other 2 amps but the WA22 has exceeded my expectations with these tubes. Verite Open sound really good with Wa22 and these tubes.
> 
> .... no noise. Very quiet in between songs.


VO /VC are very easy to drive headphones. Enjoy.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> You have to get rid of that Sylvania 6sn7gtb ASAP.



You're right man the sylvania 6sn7gtb tubes are the least favourite drivers in my stash.. 

What other tubes are u using and would recommend? 

I have:
Stock drivers
RCA 6sn7 gt (ok tubes, a bit thick sounding and smooth highs) 
Sylvania 6sn7 gtb (recessed and flat sounding. Gets me disinterested in listening fast) 
Tungsol 6sn7 gtb tall boys (neutral) 
Sylvnaia 6sn7gt bad boys (nice bass slam, pleasant highs not too rolled off) 
Mullard ecc35 (my favourite so far, clear, forward, always enjoy listening with these)


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> You're right man the sylvania 6sn7gtb tubes are the least favourite drivers in my stash..
> 
> What other tubes are u using and would recommend?
> 
> ...



WA22 likes clear top 5998/421A, WE422A, and ECC33 or 35, or B65

It may also need a DAC which can be used as a Pre-amp.

Then if you wanna something better, time to upgrade.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> VO /VC are very easy to drive headphones. Enjoy.



Similar to HD800. They are 300 ohms.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> WA22 likes clear top 5998/421A, WE422A, and ECC33 or 35, or B65
> 
> It may also need a DAC which can be used as a Pre-amp.
> 
> Then if you wanna something better, time to upgrade.



I’ll stick my pair of Visseaux 6N7G in there and see how it sound.

I’ve seen some use C3g in WA22. Are they ok to be used and secondly do they sound any good?


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> I’ll stick my pair of Visseaux 6N7G in there and see how it sound.
> 
> I’ve seen some use C3g in WA22. Are they ok to be used and secondly do they sound any good?


Never tried those, my friend.


----------



## UntilThen

3rd day with the WA22. Swap out the GEC U52 for a Cossor 53ku. Using HD800 now. I'm astonished at how good this amp sounds.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> 3rd day with the WA22. Swap out the GEC U52 for a Cossor 53ku. Using HD800 now. I'm astonished at how good this amp sounds.


Yup, it beat the _ALO Audio Studio Six / Glenn Super 9 OTL amp for now. LOL_


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> Yup, it beat the _ALO Audio Studio Six / Glenn Super 9 OTL amp for now. LOL_



For now.... new toy you know. 

In a month’s time, I’ll write a review of the 3 amps in comparison with each other. Initial impressions is each of them sound very good in their own right but I’ll rank them according to my preference and I won’t be biased.


----------



## attmci

UntilThen said:


> For now.... new toy you know.
> 
> In a month’s time, I’ll write a review of the 3 amps in comparison with each other. Initial impressions is each of them sound very good in their own right but I’ll rank them according to my preference and I won’t be biased.


It also drives the LCD-3 well. 

BTW, it always need a load, so don't leave it on without a headphone connected.


----------



## UntilThen

Attmci does the WA22 drive your Abyss adequately?

I won’t be getting a LCD3 again. If I do get another Audeze, it would be the LCD4, which I have heard at the shop and love it.


----------



## UntilThen

attmci said:


> It also drives the LCD-3 well.
> 
> BTW, it always need a load, so don't leave it on without a headphone connected.



I run my WA22 in full balance mode. The previous owner tells me it sounds better with more impact than through the rca input and 1/4 inch headphone out.


----------



## UntilThen

4th day with the WA22. Feels like I'm reaping back every cent of the AUD$1550 I paid for this mint condition amp. It's a steal !

Swapped in Bendix 6080wb power tube now and I'm more than impressed at how the WA22 perform. Notice the volume is at 12 noon now using Verite and Bendix 6080wb(s). Still on the Tung Sol 6F8G and GEC U52 which is a terrific combination.

Planning on buying a pair of NOS Mullard ECC35 or ECC33 or ECC32.

Woo Audio WA22 is a stellar performer. It's only slightly warm. Good fast speed. It's not a sluggish sounding amp. Timbre of tone is snappy, precise and dynamic. Just my kind of style. GOTL and Studio Six are in similar mole. Besides the sound, I think the WA22 looks beautiful, as with all Woo Audio tube amps. The best part is that the WA22 is a fully balanced amp that takes advantage of my Yggdrasil balanced out.


----------



## Roasty

UntilThen said:


> 4th day with the WA22. Feels like I'm reaping back every cent of the AUD$1550 I paid for this mint condition amp. It's a steal !
> 
> Swapped in Bendix 6080wb power tube now and I'm more than impressed at how the WA22 perform. Notice the volume is at 12 noon now using Verite and Bendix 6080wb(s). Still on the Tung Sol 6F8G and GEC U52 which is a terrific combination.
> 
> ...



The ecc35 are awesome tubes. 
There is a guy in headfi (Phantaminum) selling a pair of nos mullard rebranded Philips ecc35 for a great price.

The mullard ecc35 I ordered off ebay.. Of the 6 tubes I bought, 2 had loud background hum. The other 4 are dead silent background. Ymmv.


----------



## UntilThen

I happen to know @Phantaminum well. We discuss GOTL a lot. I have one ECC35 (used) and a NOS Haltron ECC33 which I use in GOTL. So I am very aware of their great sonic qualities. 2 of my favourite drivers in GOTL (Glenn OTL amplifier). 

I'm willing to buy a NOS pair of ECC35 but I need it to be a good pair that is quiet. Can't spend big amount of money and find the tubes hum loudly. 

Somehow I prefer ECC35 over ECC33. I think it's the louder gain of the ECC35.


----------



## UntilThen

Roasty said:


> The ecc35 are awesome tubes.
> There is a guy in headfi (Phantaminum) selling a pair of nos mullard rebranded Philips ecc35 for a great price.
> 
> The mullard ecc35 I ordered off ebay.. Of the 6 tubes I bought, 2 had loud background hum. The other 4 are dead silent background. Ymmv.



Do have a WA22 too? If so can you link me a photo of your WA22 in this thread. Love to see others WA22.


----------



## Roasty (Oct 11, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Do have a WA22 too? If so can you link me a photo of your WA22 in this thread. Love to see others WA22.



I think this was with the sylvania 6sn7gtb..


----------



## UntilThen

Roasty said:


> Here you go! First pic with stock tubes. Can't remember what drivers in second pic..



No pictures? Maybe post in the WA22 thread. I'm posting there now.


----------



## Roasty

UntilThen said:


> No pictures? Maybe post in the WA22 thread. I'm posting there now.



Fixed!


----------



## UntilThen

Very nice gear there - re the headphones. I bet the Utopia sounds great with WA22. Did the amp drive Abyss adequately?

The last picture you had very good tubes there. ECC35? and I think the rectifier is EML 5U4G mesh plates and Western Electric 421a power tubes.


----------



## Roasty

UntilThen said:


> Very nice gear there - re the headphones. I bet the Utopia sounds great with WA22. Did the amp drive Abyss adequately?
> 
> The last picture you had very good tubes there. ECC35? and I think the rectifier is EML 5U4G mesh plates and Western Electric 421a power tubes.



Dont think the ecc35 is in either pic. 
The Wa22 drives the abyss well. Lots of headroom in terms of volume. More so than the benchmark hpa4. Don't find a significant difference (if any at all) between low and high gain on the amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Roasty said:


> The Wa22 drives the abyss well. Lots of headroom in terms of volume. More so than the benchmark hpa4. Don't find a significant difference (if any at all) between low and high gain on the amp.



Not surprising there. I find the WA22 as transformer coupled amp has lots of power driving headphones. 

I agree with this reviewer comments about the WA22 midrange. It's the first thing I noticed coming from GOTL and Studio Six. I actually like the WA22 midrange vividness. 

_One of the WA22's greatest sonic blessings might, under some circumstances, be a drawback. Specifically, the midrange of the Woo tends to sound, says Tom Martin, "slightly more present and vivid... than with other headphone amps I had on hand (at the time of the review)." Tom adds that, "the effect that I'm talking about doesn't sound like a frequency response bump, but rather like an increase in midrange contrast." If you like the idea of heightened midrange presence and vividness, consider the Woo (or perhaps the Apex), but if you favor a more strictly "textbook neutral" presentation, consider the Cavalli. _


----------



## UntilThen

This is super review of the WA22 in comparison to 2 top notch amps.
https://www.hifiplus.com/articles/three-top-tier-headphone-amplifiers-for-hardcore-high-enders/


----------



## PatekBruguetMogul

JLoud said:


> I believe a WA5-B is just designating the color. So does it have speaker taps in the back? The WA5 does, the WA5le does not. Only difference. Other than the WA5 already has the upgrades.



Yes speaker taps on the rear of my WA5-B Amp. Really liking this unit..


----------



## Thaddy

Hello fellow Woo Audio amp owners, I'm moving from a WA2 to the WA22 and will no longer have a need for my preamp and rectifier tubes.  I'd like to sell them as a lot in a few days and wanted to post here to see if there's any prior interest.  Here's what I have:

Sylvania 6DJ8
JAN Sylvania 6DJ8
AEG (Telefunken) ECC88
Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8
JAN Phillips 6922
Russion Voskhod Kaluga 6922
Valvo E88CC
International EZ80
GE EZ80
RFT EZ81

All in they cost me $628, but I'm thinking of letting them all go for $350. Shoot me a PM if you're interested!


----------



## ahossam

Hi everyone.

I need driver tubes recommendation upgrade for WA5 LE and where to get them. I use EML power tubes and rectifier.

Thank you.


----------



## musicman59

Your power and rectifier tubes are very nice. I used to own a WA5-LE and had those tubes.
To me the best drivers are the TungSol Round Plates/Black Glass 6SN7 or the 6F8G. The 6F8G are cheaper but need an adapter that you can get from different suppliers but si recommend Glenn here in our forum.
The tubes can be found form different sources. I have got 6F8G from vaccumtubes.net

I still have several tubes from when I had my WA5-LE including a nice pair of the rare AVVT AV32B which is equivalent to the 300B-XLS that works great with the WA5.

PM me if you are interested in any tubes.


----------



## JLoud

I am running the EML power and rectifier tubes in my WA5le. Currently using Sylvania 6sn7GTB tubes for drivers. They are mid 60's black base with chrome tops. Not sure exactly what you would call them. If anyone knows give a shout out. Seem pretty nice.


----------



## worabun

Hey does any one have a picture of the boards that has two little tube on it at the rear of the top unit of woo audio wes. I tried to recase it and j accidentally ripped it off and do not know how to Soder it back on. Appreciate your helps in advance. If you have time to guide me through the process of repairing it please Contact me at 9175939222.


----------



## Thaddy

JLoud said:


> I am running the EML power and rectifier tubes in my WA5le. Currently using Sylvania 6sn7GTB tubes for drivers. They are mid 60's black base with chrome tops. Not sure exactly what you would call them. If anyone knows give a shout out. Seem pretty nice.


They're typically just called the Sylvania "chrome dome's".  I have a pair of them in the 6SN7GTA variant.  The only difference is the GTB's handle a bit more plate current.  Mine exhibit a bit of hum so I haven't listened to them a whole bunch, but I do plan on snagging another pair at some point.  Definitely a good pair of tubes to have in your collection, and they can still be had for $50-$65 for a matched pair.  Very reasonable.


----------



## Roasty

Thaddy said:


> They're typically just called the Sylvania "chrome dome's".  I have a pair of them in the 6SN7GTA variant.  The only difference is the GTB's handle a bit more plate current.  Mine exhibit a bit of hum so I haven't listened to them a whole bunch, but I do plan on snagging another pair at some point.  Definitely a good pair of tubes to have in your collection, and they can still be had for $50-$65 for a matched pair.  Very reasonable.



My Sylvania 6sn7gtb also have background hum. I find the hum quite annoying and so these tubes have ended up in my no-longer-used-tubes pile..


----------



## UntilThen

JLoud said:


> I am running the EML power and rectifier tubes in my WA5le. Currently using Sylvania 6sn7GTB tubes for drivers. They are mid 60's black base with chrome tops. Not sure exactly what you would call them. If anyone knows give a shout out. Seem pretty nice.



I have a pair of Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top that are totally quiet and they are good sounding too. Don't underestimate them but I prefer using the Tung Sol 6F8G black glass round plates as drivers in my WA22. Again I'm fortunate that all my drivers and power tubes are super quiet with my WA22. Which is why I couldn't understand why some WA22 owners complain about noise and hum either from tubes or amps? Luck?


----------



## worabun

Anyone here has opened or modified the Woo audio Wes? I need some advice oh how to do so. thanks


----------



## Cho Worsh

nishan99 said:


> What's the power output specs of the WA2?
> can't find it on their page.


Model: WA2
Headphones Impedance: 26-600 Ohms
Input Impedance: 100 Kilo-Ohms
Frequency Response: 8 Hz - 100 KHz, -3dB
Power Output: 310mW @32Ω
400mW @60Ω
550mW @120Ω
640mW @300Ω
480mW @600Ω (with 6080 tube)
Signal/Noise: 95 dB
THD: <= 0.8%
Voltage: AC 110/220 - 240V, 50/60 Hz, switchable 
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...52fdb0fc7/1521133469289/WA2_Owners_Manual.pdf


----------



## nishan99

Cho Worsh said:


> Model: WA2
> Headphones Impedance: 26-600 Ohms
> Input Impedance: 100 Kilo-Ohms
> Frequency Response: 8 Hz - 100 KHz, -3dB
> ...



Thanks a lot! <3


----------



## MIKELAP

For tube rolling i found this very useful maximum amp.\channel


----------



## ahossam

I just got tung sol 6sn7gt black round plates from ebay, I installed it on WA5, 10 minutes in after I turn it on I starting to hear loud noise on my right headphone, do I get bad tubes or is there any way to fix it?


----------



## isquirrel

ahossam said:


> I just got tung sol 6sn7gt black round plates from ebay, I installed it on WA5, 10 minutes in after I turn it on I starting to hear loud noise on my right headphone, do I get bad tubes or is there any way to fix it?


Yes, leave them on for a max of 12 hours playing music or using a burn in track. They will either come good after a few god burn in sessions or they won't. You can also try re-seating them and or swapping them across channels to see if the problem really is in the driver tube.

I have about 14 prime sets of these tubes and they are amazing, defiantly the best driver tube out there. Especially the ones with 1940's Military provenance.


----------



## ahossam

isquirrel said:


> Yes, leave them on for a max of 12 hours playing music or using a burn in track. They will either come good after a few god burn in sessions or they won't. You can also try re-seating them and or swapping them across channels to see if the problem really is in the driver tube.
> 
> I have about 14 prime sets of these tubes and they are amazing, defiantly the best driver tube out there. Especially the ones with 1940's Military provenance.



I have burned it in for about only 6 hours now (I am a bit busy right now) and thank God there is less noise now compare to the first times, I hope it will improve overtimes with burn in. And yes this tube sound really good compare to the stock tube way much better. Thanks for your advice much appreciated.


----------



## andre dufour

Csericks said:


> I bought my first Woo about 10 years ago; I've never had anything but positive experiences with Woo and Woo products.



Same here.  I've purchased tubes, WES 2.0, SR009 and SR009S from them and have had great customer service.


----------



## Odin412

andre dufour said:


> Same here.  I've purchased tubes, WES 2.0, SR009 and SR009S from them and have had great customer service.



I'm in the same boat - I have the WA3 and WA6 and I am very happy with both of them.


----------



## vlach

Odin412 said:


> I'm in the same boat - I have the WA3 and WA6 and I am very happy with both of them.



I have the WA6 and use it with high impedance headphones like T1 & HD800.  In 'theory' the WA3 should work better  with such headphones and I've often wondered if i would've been better of with the WA3. 
Care to share your thoughts and describe general  SQ differences between  the two amps? Am i missing anything with the WA6?


----------



## Odin412

vlach said:


> I have the WA6 and use it with high impedance headphones like T1 & HD800.  In 'theory' the WA3 should work better  with such headphones and I've often wondered if i would've been better of with the WA3.
> Care to share your thoughts and describe general  SQ differences between  the two amps? Am i missing anything with the WA6?



Good question! I started with the WA6 as well, mostly because it's a more flexible amp that can drive more headphones, including planar magnetic headphones. I purchased the WA3 later specifically to drive high-impedance headphones like HD 650 and the ZMF Atticus. The sound of Woo amps can be altered quite a bit by rolling different tubes, which is IMHO part of their appeal. I enjoy buying different tubes and trying them out.

As for general sound signature I find the WA6 to be a bit warmer and maybe even darker than the WA3, so with more relaxing-sounding headphones like the HD 650 it's too much of a good thing for me. (I should note that I'm very treble-sensitive so YMMV.) I like to use the WA6 when I want a more relaxing sound - for example, I find the combination of the WA6 and the Audeze LCD-XC to be especially captivating. I really enjoy my WA3 with the HD 650 and the ZMF Atticus, and it works surprisingly well with the Focal Elear, which are lower-impedance headphones. I have a 2nd generation T1, but I haven't tried it with the WA3 yet (I prefer it with my Cavalli Liquid Carbon), but I'll try to hook it up this weekend and let you know what I think.


----------



## filip sebastian

Wa6 with HD800 is somewhere on the limit, but T1's are too much.  I have T1 and HD800 and replaced WA6 with Felix Audio Elise.


----------



## vlach

filip sebastian said:


> Wa6 with HD800 is somewhere on the limit, but T1's are too much.  I have T1 and HD800 and replaced WA6 with Felix Audio Elise.



What kind of limit are you referring to, is it related to power or SQ?


----------



## vlach (Dec 11, 2019)

Odin412 said:


> Good question! I started with the WA6 as well, mostly because it's a more flexible amp that can drive more headphones, including planar magnetic headphones. I purchased the WA3 later specifically to drive high-impedance headphones like HD 650 and the ZMF Atticus. The sound of Woo amps can be altered quite a bit by rolling different tubes, which is IMHO part of their appeal. I enjoy buying different tubes and trying them out.
> 
> As for general sound signature I find the WA6 to be a bit warmer and maybe even darker than the WA3, so with more relaxing-sounding headphones like the HD 650 it's too much of a good thing for me. (I should note that I'm very treble-sensitive so YMMV.) I like to use the WA6 when I want a more relaxing sound - for example, I find the combination of the WA6 and the Audeze LCD-XC to be especially captivating. I really enjoy my WA3 with the HD 650 and the ZMF Atticus, and it works surprisingly well with the Focal Elear, which are lower-impedance headphones. I have a 2nd generation T1, but I haven't tried it with the WA3 yet (I prefer it with my Cavalli Liquid Carbon), but I'll try to hook it up this weekend and let you know what I think.



Thank you for elaborating on your setup and experience. I went with the WA6 for the same reason as you did originally; because i figured it would be compatible with a wider variety of headphones, including  planars.

The extra warmth (and fullness) is exactly what i love about the WA6 driving the HD800 & T1. I find it addresses perfectly what these headphones need in order to have a more balanced presentation since they are somewhat lean & dry in nature.

Now if the WA3 is cooler then i might not be missing anything (for my tastes), however I'm looking forward to hear about your results with the T1 vs the WA6.


----------



## filip sebastian

vlach said:


> What kind of limit are you referring to, is it related to power or SQ?


The Wa6 does well with the HD800, except that it somehow limits headphones.  But in case T1 clearly did not have enough power.  Wa6 sees it as a headphone amplifier of up to 300 ohms.


----------



## vlach

filip sebastian said:


> The Wa6 does well with the HD800, except that it somehow limits headphones.  But in case T1 clearly did not have enough power.  Wa6 sees it as a headphone amplifier of up to 300 ohms.



That's interesting. I ususally have the volume knob at 10am (HD800) or 11am (T1) and never have to go beyond that level unless the recording itself has low output. I feed it a 2V signal from my DAC and the switch in the back is in the up position - 600 ohms.


----------



## filip sebastian

I was not satisfied with the combination T1 and Wa6, first of all I felt that the headphones were not their true value.


----------



## vlach

filip sebastian said:


> I was not satisfied with the combination T1 and Wa6, first of all I felt that the headphones were not their true value.



That's unfortunate. My case is quite the opposite; after trying multiple amps, the WA6 is my favorite with the T1. It counter balances the lean & dry with rich & full. I'm very satisfied.


----------



## VandyMan (Dec 14, 2019)

I think the WA6 SE is really worth the extra money. More power plus High and Low impedance headphone jacks.


----------



## UntilThen

For me it's the WA22.   Shown here with the Glenn OTL amp. 2 of my 3 favourite tube amps.


----------



## Alexcao87

Wow, these re my real unicorn ,i tried looking for it to pari with hd800s


----------



## Odin412

vlach said:


> Thank you for elaborating on your setup and experience. I went with the WA6 for the same reason as you did originally; because i figured it would be compatible with a wider variety of headphones, including  planars.
> 
> The extra warmth (and fullness) is exactly what i love about the WA6 driving the HD800 & T1. I find it addresses perfectly what these headphones need in order to have a more balanced presentation since they are somewhat lean & dry in nature.
> 
> Now if the WA3 is cooler then i might not be missing anything (for my tastes), however I'm looking forward to hear about your results with the T1 vs the WA6.



OK, so I tried the T1.2 with both amps and they sound surprisingly similar! In fact, I'm not sure that I would be able to tell them apart during a blind test. If I'm going to be super picky then the WA3 has maybe a tiny touch more 'liquid' midrange, but I would not say that the WA3 has any cooler presentation than the WA6. They are both very nice amps IMHO. This was not the result I expected, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with how I've tuned both amps to the way I like them by using tubes that I enjoy. My WA3 has Brimar E88CC drivers and a Tung-Sol 5998 power tube. My WA6 has Philco 6DE7 drivers and a Mullard GZ37 rectifier. All tubes are vintage. I'm not sure this is of any help, but thanks for suggesting the comparison - it was an interesting (and surprising) experience for me.


----------



## vlach

Odin412 said:


> OK, so I tried the T1.2 with both amps and they sound surprisingly similar! In fact, I'm not sure that I would be able to tell them apart during a blind test. If I'm going to be super picky then the WA3 has maybe a tiny touch more 'liquid' midrange, but I would not say that the WA3 has any cooler presentation than the WA6. They are both very nice amps IMHO. This was not the result I expected, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with how I've tuned both amps to the way I like them by using tubes that I enjoy. My WA3 has Brimar E88CC drivers and a Tung-Sol 5998 power tube. My WA6 has Philco 6DE7 drivers and a Mullard GZ37 rectifier. All tubes are vintage. I'm not sure this is of any help, but thanks for suggesting the comparison - it was an interesting (and surprising) experience for me.



Thank you for reporting  back with these results! I just have one more question; according to the specs for both amps, the WA3 is more powerful at 600 ohms being OTL. Did you notice this when setting the volume knob level in comparison to the WA6?


----------



## Odin412

vlach said:


> Thank you for reporting  back with these results! I just have one more question; according to the specs for both amps, the WA3 is more powerful at 600 ohms being OTL. Did you notice this when setting the volume knob level in comparison to the WA6?



Yes, I did notice that I had to turn the volume control quite a bit higher on the WA6 to get to the same volume level. Both amps are more than powerful enough for me, but the difference on volume control position was greater than I expected.


----------



## vlach

Odin412 said:


> Yes, I did notice that I had to turn the volume control quite a bit higher on the WA6 to get to the same volume level. Both amps are more than powerful enough for me, but the difference on volume control position was greater than I expected.



Good to know, and i assume the WA6 had the rear  switch set to 600 ohms right?


----------



## Odin412

vlach said:


> Good to know, and i assume the WA6 had the rear  switch set to 600 ohms right?



Affirmative!


----------



## vlach (Dec 15, 2019)

Odin412 said:


> Affirmative!



So now I'm a ittle confused; i found the specs for both amps on the Woo Audio website.

WA3: 260mW @ 600 ohms.
WA6: 400mW @ 600 ohms.

I would expect the volume knob level on the 'WA3' to be adjusted higher. Am i missing something?

Edit: i guess it depends in the tubes used...


----------



## Odin412

vlach said:


> So now I'm a ittle confused; i found the specs for both amps on the Woo Audio website.
> 
> WA3: 260mW @ 600 ohms.
> WA6: 400mW @ 600 ohms.
> ...



I would think that the volume knob position has more to do with the gain of the amp (how much it amplifies the input signal) than the power output capability, but I would defer to others who know more about tube amps than me. You're probably right that the tubes installed play a role as well.


----------



## Badas

Odin412 said:


> I would think that the volume knob position has more to do with the gain of the amp (how much it amplifies the input signal) than the power output capability, but I would defer to others who know more about tube amps than me. You're probably right that the tubes installed play a role as well.



On the WA22 the input signal level is important as well. It is cleaner if the input signal is lower and the volume dial is higher. 
I pre-amp mine and run input low. Totally clean where I found multiple DAC’s ran the line level too hot and WA22 got scratchy.


----------



## Roasty

Just received a WE422a and a pair of Vt231 from Dan Lee. 

The WE422a... My goodness. What a tube! If your amp can use this, do try to get one. Clean and airy up top, excellent extension and punch down low. No harshness or graininess at all. By far the most 3d/holographic tube I have. The mids are just so good with this tube, vocals sound amazeballs...

Paired with WE421 and Mullard ECC35. I think i can stop my search for tubes, lest I itch for a TAK274..


----------



## attmci (Dec 28, 2019)

Roasty said:


> Just received a WE422a and a pair of Vt231 from Dan Lee.
> 
> The WE422a... My goodness. What a tube! If your amp can use this, do try to get one. Clean and airy up top, excellent extension and punch down low. No harshness or graininess at all. By far the most 3d/holographic tube I have. The mids are just so good with this tube, vocals sound amazeballs...
> 
> Paired with WE421 and Mullard ECC35. I think i can stop my search for tubes, lest I itch for a TAK274..


The B65s should be the next on your hunting list.  Seems $ is not an issue for you.

You don't like the TS BGRP?


----------



## pippen99

Delivered 12/27/2019.  Woo WA33 Elite Edition.  EH6C45 Gold Pin and Takatsuki TA-274B upgrade.  Waiting on delivery of EML 2A3 Mesh from Germany.  30 hours in and sounds great.  Wish the EMLs were here burning in at the same time.


----------



## Thaddy

Very nice, I spy some Verite's in the back as well?  I have some Camphor Burl Aeolus's on order, and from what I read the ZMF's should pair very nicely with Jack's amps. I'm sure that WA33 sounds terrific right out of the box.


----------



## pippen99

Thanks!  My cans of choice are ZMF Verite Pheasantwood Open with the Verite Silver cable and the Audeze LCD-4 with DH Prion4 cable.  I also have a Norne Silvergarde S3 for variety.  Fortunately Zach uses the same connectors as Audeze.  I love almost any wood in a Burl.  Enjoy!


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats on the WA33 Elite. What a way to start the year.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Looks glorious.  Probably sounds even better.


----------



## fredx

Nice.  Let us know when you're ready to upgrade.


----------



## ahossam

I dont know if this is even possible, can you add remote volume control on WA5? maybe like adding preamp to your system.


----------



## Strayngs

ahossam said:


> I dont know if this is even possible, can you add remote volume control on WA5? maybe like adding preamp to your system.



I have a Elac ddp2 Which is Is a DAC with a preamp. I am able to control the volume of any of my amps coming out with either the knob  or the app on my iPad.


----------



## ahossam

Strayngs said:


> I have a Elac ddp2 Which is Is a DAC with a preamp. I am able to control the volume of any of my amps coming out with either the knob  or the app on my iPad.



I have Schiit Freya on my mind but I don't know if it will work.


----------



## Strayngs

As long as it has a variable output it will work


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Shoutout to customer Huy for the review of his ultimate WA33 Elite Edition with JPS upgrades.

https://forum.headphones.com/t/woo-...XgzLPBCZ93Yrlzzv7ZuY4qd4RKrKqP68SQCWnxuCEDwFo


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Oh man, you guys are killing me. I was all set to buy a WA2 and then I got hammered with bad news from all directions. Gotta wait it out...


----------



## vlach

gimmeheadroom said:


> Oh man, you guys are killing me. I was all set to buy a WA2 and then I got hammered with bad news from all directions. Gotta wait it out...



What are the bad news?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

vlach said:


> What are the bad news?



<REDACTED>


----------



## OldSkool

gimmeheadroom said:


> <REDACTED>



What did I miss? What bad news?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Personal bad news, nothing to do with Woo company or people. Thanks guys, sorry for any unintended thread derailment.


----------



## pippen99

EML 2A3 mesh finally arrived.  Delivery only took 7 weeks.  Germany must be on the other side of the world or something.  After only 3 hours I can tell these are a big upgrade to the stock EH.  Much tighter bass and subbass with a hint of a larger soundstage.  Right now they are a little noisy but expect them to grow out of that.  EML estimates any where from 100-300 hours to reach potential.  Excited for what is ahead with my WA33 EE!


----------



## justonwo

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Shoutout to customer Huy for the review of his ultimate WA33 Elite Edition with JPS upgrades.
> 
> https://forum.headphones.com/t/woo-...XgzLPBCZ93Yrlzzv7ZuY4qd4RKrKqP68SQCWnxuCEDwFo



Based on this review (and many others), I decided to get the WA33 Elite JPS version with some Nordost XLR interconnects and power cord. I think it'll pair very well with my AB-1266 TC.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Feb 8, 2020)

.


----------



## mrspeakers

My home rig. W5 v2, tubes are crazy 596 rectifiers, VT99 gain, and Sophia Royal Princess 300s.

To the left is the Blue Hawaii with Seimens EL34s, below that is the Cavalli LIquid Crimson and Yggdrassil DAC. Not shown is my updated custom Mojo Audio Roon 

server with linear power supplies and femto clocked outputs running Linux in RAM Root.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

awesome setup Dan. Thank you for sharing. See ya in NYC!


----------



## flea22

Hi Guys,
 I need some advice, my wa22 stopped working today after a bad smell coming from a hot amp. Now it will turn back on, but will turn off after 1 min. 

I have tried changing all tubes and power cord and nothing has worked.

Does anyone have any idea of what could be the internal problem? 

Are woo amps repairable by competent amp repair people? Or do the amps have to go back to woo for repair. 
I live in Australia and sending back to woo is pretty expensive and would rather have someone local repair the amp.

Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP (Feb 20, 2020)

flea22 said:


> Hi Guys,
> I need some advice, my wa22 stopped working today after a bad smell coming from a hot amp. Now it will turn back on, but will turn off after 1 min.
> 
> I have tried changing all tubes and power cord and nothing has worked.
> ...


    i was thinking fuse but it turns on ????


----------



## attmci (Feb 20, 2020)

flea22 said:


> Hi Guys,
> I need some advice, my wa22 stopped working today after a bad smell coming from a hot amp. Now it will turn back on, but will turn off after 1 min.
> 
> I have tried changing all tubes and power cord and nothing has worked.
> ...


@Badas may help you to find a local repair shop.

            [IMG alt="Badas"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/m/401/401438.jpg?1470782575[/IMG]          

Badas


----------



## AnakChan

Ping Jack Wu. My WA8 PSU also had problems & Jack fixed it for me. Esp in WA, I think voltage is very inconsistent (had 3 blackouts in 6 months, and experienced only 1 in Tokyo in 19 yrs!?). I think amps are sensitive to such fluctuations which affect the product’s longevity.


----------



## flea22

MIKELAP said:


> i was thinking fuse but it turns on ????


Yes the amp will turn on, but only for one minute then turn off. 
Thanks


attmci said:


> @Badas may help you to find a local repair shop.
> 
> [IMG alt="Badas"]https://cdn.head-fi.org/avatars/m/401/401438.jpg?1470782575[/IMG]
> 
> Badas


Will send him a pm, thanks


----------



## paulybatz

So. I’m only through page 3!!!!!

can anyone summarize and is there anything better than Woo and which should I get???
WA7 / 6 / 2......my head is spinning after 7 years away.


----------



## Astral Abyss

paulybatz said:


> So. I’m only through page 3!!!!!
> 
> can anyone summarize and is there anything better than Woo and which should I get???
> WA7 / 6 / 2......my head is spinning after 7 years away.


There's always something better...

I can't imagine being disappointed with any of the Woo offerings.  Just remember that the 2 is an OTL and sounds best with 250ohm+ headphones.


----------



## Marat Sar

hey fellow head-fiers! I'm looking to maybe get a wa234, but I can't find woo audio's contact information anywhere online. can't make this kind of purchase without personal e-mail contact with the company, you know. 

so -- does anyone have the contact e-mail of anyone at Woo Audio?

thanks in advance y'all!


----------



## paulybatz

mike@wooaudio.com


----------



## Marat Sar

paulybatz said:


> mike@wooaudio.com



Wundebar! Thanks, man!


----------



## paulybatz

Wa7

lcd2
Mx4
Hd650
Focal clear

feedback???


----------



## paulybatz

Wa7 pair or WA6???


----------



## jestiz

paulybatz said:


> Wa7 pair or WA6???


I think the WA6 is better since it allows for tube rolling if youre into that thing. I think if you can afford it the wa6se is special. Has low and high impedance outputs in case you want to run something high imp like HD600/650 and also planers which are low imp.


----------



## paulybatz

I went Wa7 pair. 
hoping I love it


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Marat Sar said:


> hey fellow head-fiers! I'm looking to maybe get a wa234, but I can't find woo audio's contact information anywhere online. can't make this kind of purchase without personal e-mail contact with the company, you know.
> 
> so -- does anyone have the contact e-mail of anyone at Woo Audio?
> 
> thanks in advance y'all!



I'm a few days late. Thanks @paulybatz for chiming in. We can be reached at info@wooaudio or mike@wooaudio (me) or jack@wooaudio (da boss).


----------



## HiFiGuy528

paulybatz said:


> I went Wa7 pair.
> hoping I love it



congrats! We look forward to your impressions and pics.


----------



## paulybatz

I repurposed an old MacBook Pro to make a matching base


----------



## davehg (Mar 4, 2020)

paulybatz said:


> So. I’m only through page 3!!!!!
> 
> can anyone summarize and is there anything better than Woo and which should I get???
> WA7 / 6 / 2......my head is spinning after 7 years away.



All of the Woo amps are different, and the best one depends on your setup and budget.

i started with the WA6SE, which did well on a few headphones. I moved up to the WA22, which is more finicky. If you have a balanced source and balanced headphone cables, it can do some nice things. With the Senn HD650, and using some NOS tubes, it is magic. With the Focal Clear running balanced, it is terrific, but only ok with the Audeze LCD3. without running fully balanced, there are better Woo choices.

I Kept the WA22 and bought a WA5. Wonderful amp and it shines with every headphone, and manages to power efficient speakers quite well too. It’s awesome, but expensive, though well worth it. My favorite of the Woo amps.

I’ve tested the WA33, also wonderful sounding but more than I wanted to spend.

I just now realized you bought the WA7 The amp is a good place to start, though you can improve on the embedded DAC. Enjoy it but keep your mind open to moving up the Woo food chain.


----------



## paulybatz

Thank you Dave… I am enjoying the WA7
I don’t think that I’ve ever heard my HD 650 sounds so good, I kind of put them on the market but I’m considering keeping them around


----------



## davehg

If you


paulybatz said:


> Thank you Dave… I am enjoying the WA7
> I don’t think that I’ve ever heard my HD 650 sounds so good, I kind of put them on the market but I’m considering keeping them around



if you like the HD650, take a listen to the Focal Clear. It has a more neutral character that improves in the areas that the HD650 lacks. Plus, it will be an easy load for the WA7, and is bound to excel in the bass more than the HD650.

 I recognize the HD650 isn’t the most extended headphone out there, but I think every serious headphone enthusiast should own a pair. They are  wonderful on vocals and overall have a pleasing musical sound. But pair them with a powerful tube amp and they come alive, and that includes better bass response. At 600 ohms, I find they need some juice, and I am not sure the WA7 is the best amp to partner, but the Clear would do well with the WA7.

Personally I would keep them given their values and consider a pair of Clears if you opt to stay with the WA7 long term. Clears are frequently are on sale around $1100, and perhaps less used.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Thanks you to all.


----------



## pippen99

You are being unrealistic.  You bought a used piece of equipment with only a small portion of the warranty left.  Woo warranty is not unusual in this industry.  The amp operated as designed through the warranty.  Apparently nothing ever breaks in you world.  Not your car, television, washing machine, etc.  Stuff breaks, deal with it.


----------



## paulybatz

Sigh


----------



## vlach

pippen99 said:


> You are being unrealistic.  You bought a used piece of equipment with only a small portion of the warranty left.  Woo warranty is not unusual in this industry.  The amp operated as designed through the warranty.  Apparently nothing ever breaks in you world.  Not your car, television, washing machine, etc.  Stuff breaks, deal with it.



Did you read the part where he said he contacted Woo 'before' the warranty expired?


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Mar 7, 2020)

RickInHouston said:


> Woo Audio WA2 owner. Bought on Ebay 08.2019 from a nice fella who went to the Rocky Mountain show and auditioned quite a few headphone amps. I think he even talked to the head guy. One year warrant expired 11.2019
> 
> I have a distinct buzz in right headphone. Allo DigiOne Signature to Benchmark DAC3 (just as DAC) to WA2. No moving the unit to another location, change of cables, nothing could get rid of it. Switched tubes left to right, new set of tubes (upgrade) - no change. There's a buzz from the transformer even if you put your ear close to the unit. Contacted Woo before warrant expired. WOW. Basically would not take any responsibility. I even asked to pay shipping to them so they could hear it - obviously something is wrong. No. They said IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME.
> 
> ...



First of all... we would never say to any customer "IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME". Additionally, noise in an audio system can come from many ways, cables, ac power, tubes, EMI, etc. The amplifier doesn't know what it is amplifying, music or noise.

We ALWAYS try to help the customer via email or phone call before we ask them to send the unit in for an inspection. *Regardless of warranty status! *In fact, we don't ask for purchase receipt before answering product support questions.

If you want to send your WA2 and tubes to us for an inspection, the out of warranty cost is $80 + any repairs + return shipping. But keep in mind that our test condition is NOT the same as your home setup so we may not be able to replicate the noise concern. This is why we try to help the customer before they send the amp + tubes to us. Our efforts is to save the customer time and shipping cost.

If you need additional assistance, please send pictures of your setup to us so we can better assist you. Because we only know what you share and a picture speaks a thousand words.

info@wooaudio.com


----------



## pippen99

As a multiple owner of Woo products and my experience with Mike and Jack does not relate to that which was described.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Thank you.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Stay safe.


----------



## VandyMan

Have you tried plugging your headphones into the Benchmark DAC to check if you hear the noise?


----------



## UntilThen

Jack does seem a most reasonable guy from his posts. Though I never had to deal with him, I'm most happy with a 2nd hand WA22 Gen 1. It's totally quiet. In the end, I pass it on to my son along with 5998, Bendix 6080, GEC 6as7g and GEC 6080 tubes.

I visited him yesterday and listen with a HD800 and the WA22. Love it immensely.


----------



## attmci

RickInHouston said:


> Woo Audio WA2 owner. Bought on Ebay 08.2019 from a nice fella who went to the Rocky Mountain show and auditioned quite a few headphone amps. I think he even talked to the head guy. One year warrant expired 11.2019
> 
> I have a distinct buzz in right headphone. Allo DigiOne Signature to Benchmark DAC3 (just as DAC) to WA2. No moving the unit to another location, change of cables, nothing could get rid of it. Switched tubes left to right, new set of tubes (upgrade) - no change. There's a buzz from the transformer even if you put your ear close to the unit. Contacted Woo before warrant expired. WOW. Basically would not take any responsibility. I even asked to pay shipping to them so they could hear it - obviously something is wrong. No. They said IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME.
> 
> ...


I believe the warranty only cover normal wear and tear. Hard to believe a transformer need to be replaced within a year. There is bunch of ways to damage it for sure. hmmmmmm.

I pretty sure WOO will be happy to repair it for you.Good luck with the repair.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Take care.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Enjoy the music.


----------



## AnakChan

Your video can be seen. But for now Woo Audio has offered to follow up. I suggest that you do and see where that leads instead all the readers here speculating. The conclusion, post follow up, can be posted here.


----------



## VandyMan

RickInHouston said:


> The Benchmark is silent.  Black dead silent with volume all the way up.



I basically agree with AnakChan, but one one thing you check is if the issue is due to a ground loop. You can  pickup a cheater plug at a hardware store (about $1) and put it on the end of the Woo power cord to see if that is the issue.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Keep your hands washed.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Some context on @RickInHouston WA2 noise concern. In total, we had 24 emails trying to help him.

Back in August 2019 he email us and said _*"I unplugged everything. Plugged in the Woo and dead silent."*_ this means the cause of the noise is not from the WA2 or the tubes. Because if it were, he would hear the noise generated by the amplifier. Based on Rick's test, sending the amp to us for an inspection will not yield any findings because the amp itself is not making any noises. Keep in mind, the amplifier does not know what it is amplifying - noise or music. If the input signal is noisy then the amplifier will simply amplify the noise.

We will reach out to Rick again via email to see if anything has changed and will work with him.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Take care.


----------



## Thaddy

For what it's worth I spent a bit of time with Mike on the phone troubleshooting some hum when I took delivery of my WA22.  His suggested method was very helpful, and it turned out to be a noisy rectifier that quieted down after some burn in.  I've been a Woo Audio customer for a long time and have never had issues with their products, however they have always answered my emails and picked up the phone when I've had questions.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Thank you.


----------



## OldSkool

My WA2 has been flawless for the last 8 years. However, my Schiit Mjolnir balanced amp exhibited a hum and crackling noise since day one. Turned out to be a noisy wi-fi router under my desk. Go figure.

Hope Woo gets you up and running soon.


----------



## AnakChan

I suggest that @RickInHouston’s issue be taken offline between himself & Woo Audio instead of further speculations (& potential accusations) here.

The conclusions can be shared here later.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Take care.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Mar 9, 2020)

RickInHouston said:


> Waiting on a shipping address to send it in.  Haven't gotten a response.



It has an hour ago... thank you for being patient.



RickInHouston said:


> Can the video posted be seen by others?  Thoughts.



In the video, your WA2 is NOT using *any of the tubes* *originally supplied with the amplifier*. This could be the culprit of the noise but we won't know until we've tested your tubes. When it comes to troubleshooting for noises, it is important to use the tubes we supplied with the amplifier because they are *tested to meet or exceeds our specifications* for use on the amplifier. We cannot support or guarantee third-party tubes.

I am posting this to provide some clarity for other members reading about your concerns. We will work with you in private to arrange to inspect your WA2 and tubes.


----------



## RickInHouston (Mar 14, 2020)

Be good.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@RickInHouston I reply to all your emails within one hour. This is faster than the industry standard. Thank you for being patient.


----------



## AnakChan

Hi guys, whilst all this is like a whodunnit mystery movie, we probably don’t need this played out on the forums. May I recommend again please for this to be taken offline? The conclusion (days/weeks later) can be shared out here if no biases & agreement by parties.

edit: I’m really holding myself back from moderating/deleting posts.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

*Update:*

We inspected the WA2 + stock tubes Rick sent (no charge). We could not replicate the noises he experienced. Rick did not send us the tubes he used in the example video he shared here so we cannot test them. His amp and the stock tubes are very quiet *with and without* a source connected.


----------



## AnakChan

Thanks for the update @HiFiGuy528 . I gather the conversations have been had with Rick offline? And if Rick doesn't have any other questions, this concludes this matter. I'm glad it is resolved.


----------



## RickInHouston

All good.  Woo gives the unit a 'perfect health' status.  It is working as intended.

I've decided to sell.  Anyone know of someone looking for a unit - 50% off - six hundred is a steal!  PM me.


----------



## flea22

Found out what was wrong with my wa22, the transformer cooked it self, anyone else have any problems like this with woo?


----------



## joseph69

Had my WA6 for 5+yrs no issues,
Have my WA33 for almost 2yrs no issues.
Sorry to hear this, but at least you can buy another WA22 at 50% off offered right above you.


----------



## flea22

joseph69 said:


> Had my WA6 for 5+yrs no issues,
> Have my WA33 for almost 2yrs no issues.
> Sorry to hear this, but at least you can buy another WA22 at 50% off offered right above you.


Think that's for a wa2 not 22, bummer. 

I think I have been unlucky with woo amps had a wa7 tp have it's dac and led lights fail just after a year, my wa22 is about 2 and a half years old.


----------



## u2u2

WA6 - 5+ years old,
WA22 - 4+ years old,
WDS-1 - 4+ years old,
Excellent performance from all although the WA22 prefers a filtered power source. A very few tubes cause some hum on one amp or the other but not both. Solid products that just need clean power and a diet of good tubes. If I ever get a serious issue I think it will be more than worth the effort to work through it and return to enjoying these fantastic performers. Huge enjoyment return on my Woo investment.


----------



## davehg (Mar 27, 2020)

I found a good deal on a pair of Devore Fidelity Super 8s, which were the hot speaker about ten years ago. I owned a pair back then, and while I enjoyed them on a VAC Avatar SE, I had zero luck powering them with a Wavac 845. I ended up trading them for a pair of Merlin TSMs which were wonderful, especially with a pair of AirTight ATM3 mono amps. Then about five years ago, I sold off most of the gear and moved to a headphone only setup.

I used a pair of ProAc Super Tablettes with the WA5 and it worked surprisingly well. Now the Devores are back in the house but I’m a few months away from being able to set the room up, owing to a house remodel.

Does anyone use their WA5 with Devore speakers? The Super 8s should be tube friendly, but I recall they preferred the Avatar’s 35 wpc to the Wavac measly 15 watts. My experience with the ProAcs leaves me optimistic that the Devores and the WA5 will be a better match.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@davehg The sensitivity is rated at 90dB/W/m and impedance @8 Ohms so it should not be a problem. Of course the size of your room and how loud you like to listen at plays a role in drivability.


----------



## Dave01236

Hi everyone, I found this pair of tubes for sale. At first I was looking for some tungsol 6fg8's and they seemed quite expensive, and then for a much cheaper price I found this. It is not 6F8G but 6B4G. I tried to find some information online about 6B4G but could not find any. They look almost the same as black glass TS 6FG8.

I'd like to know if they sound the same as the TS 6FG8 or if there are any differences at all that I should know about. Also if anyone has had the chance to try both the tungsol 6fg8 (or any 6fg8 tubes) and the mullard ecc35's it'd be great for me to know the main differences between both pair of tubes, and which pair you liked the most. Many thanks!


----------



## attmci (Apr 9, 2020)

Dave01236 said:


> Hi everyone, I found this pair of tubes for sale. At first I was looking for some tungsol 6fg8's and they seemed quite expensive, and then for a much cheaper price I found this. It is not 6F8G but 6B4G. I tried to find some information online about 6B4G but could not find any. They look almost the same as black glass TS 6FG8.
> 
> I'd like to know if they sound the same as the TS 6FG8 or if there are any differences at all that I should know about. Also if anyone has had the chance to try both the tungsol 6fg8 (or any 6fg8 tubes) and the mullard ecc35's it'd be great for me to know the main differences between both pair of tubes, and which pair you liked the most. Many thanks!


http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0146.htm

You want to use these for DRIVER?


----------



## Dave01236

attmci said:


> http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0146.htm
> 
> You want to use these for DRIVER?



I'd like to but I'm unsure if a 6f8g to 6sn7 adapter would work with this tube. And I know nothing about how it sounds and if it's more or less the same as 6f8g


----------



## attmci

Dave01236 said:


> I'd like to but I'm unsure if a 6f8g to 6sn7 adapter would work with this tube. And I know nothing about how it sounds and if it's more or less the same as 6f8g


You can try 6c8g, and use the same adapter.


----------



## vlach

Question about the WA3;  if it looks identical to the WA6 but is OTL, then what is inside the enclosure behind the tubes???


----------



## Odin412

vlach said:


> Question about the WA3;  if it looks identical to the WA6 but is OTL, then what is inside the enclosure behind the tubes???



My guess is the power transformer.


----------



## vlach

Odin412 said:


> My guess is the power transformer.



Its OTL, no transformer.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

vlach said:


> Question about the WA3;  if it looks identical to the WA6 but is OTL, then what is inside the enclosure behind the tubes???



WA6 is better for modern headphones.


----------



## Barone Birra

vlach said:


> Its OTL, no transformer.


Every electrical device needs power to work...


----------



## vlach

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA6 is better for modern headphones.



Thank you but your answer has nothing to do with my question.


----------



## vlach

Barone Birra said:


> Every electrical device needs power to work...



Not at the output. Some tube amps have an output transformer (WA6) and some don't (WA3).


----------



## Barone Birra

vlach said:


> Not at the output. Some tube amps have an output transformer (WA6) and some don't (WA3).


So, I believe in that enclosure we have the power transformer (WA3) or the power transformer+output transformer (WA6)...


----------



## joseph69

vlach said:


> Question about the WA3;  if it looks identical to the WA6 but is OTL, then what is inside the enclosure behind the tubes???


It's a power transformer.
You're confusing a power transformer with an output transformers.


----------



## vlach

joseph69 said:


> It's a power transformer.
> You're confusing a power transformer with an output transformers.



Does that mean that both the WA3 & WA6 house a power transformer in that enclosure and that the output transformer for the WA6 is inside the chassis?


----------



## joseph69

vlach said:


> Does that mean that both the WA3 & WA6 house a power transformer in that enclosure and that the output transformer for the WA6 is inside the chassis?


Yes


----------



## MasonStorm

Has anyone used AD1 tubes (in a Woo amp) in place of a 300B?  I see eBay sellers offering AD1>300B adapters (which claim to convert the heater voltage as well as the pinout configuration).  I asked Woo directly, and they cannot recommend doing this, but since I imagine that involves the fact that they can't trust an adapter that they didn't make themselves, I wondered if anyone here has actually tried it....and been that guinea pig for all of us??!!


----------



## Roasty

In case anyone is looking for tung-sol 5998 power tubes, there is a seller on ebay with stock, selling at a good price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184275559141

I just purchased two to keep as spares (already have a pair).


----------



## Krutsch

Roasty said:


> In case anyone is looking for tung-sol 5998 power tubes, there is a seller on ebay with stock, selling at a good price.
> ...



Wow... $159 is a good price? Maybe I should start selling my collection.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Krutsch said:


> Wow... $159 is a good price? Maybe I should start selling my collection.



What would be a normal price. Not even good, just normal. I just got into tubes with my WA3, so would like to know and genuinely have no clue.


----------



## Krutsch

CaptainFantastic said:


> What would be a normal price. Not even good, just normal. I just got into tubes with my WA3, so would like to know and genuinely have no clue.



I don't know, I guess... 

I didn't pay anything close to that for my mint, tested WE 421a tubes (non-existent on eBay now) or my GEC Brown Base tubes (which are now going to $2,500).

Total insanity, if you ask me.


----------



## Roasty

Krutsch said:


> Wow... $159 is a good price? Maybe I should start selling my collection.



Supply and demand drives they price and anyway it's all relative isn't it. 



CaptainFantastic said:


> What would be a normal price. Not even good, just normal. I just got into tubes with my WA3, so would like to know and genuinely have no clue.



As a reference, Woo lists ts5998 for 325 each.


----------



## Krutsch

Roasty said:


> ...
> As a reference, Woo lists ts5998 for 325 each.



Except that they are out of stock (probably forever from Woo Audio).


----------



## Roasty

Krutsch said:


> Except that they are out of stock (probably forever from Woo Audio).



They're out of stock? If that is true, since the manufacturer of our amps has no stock for a tube they usually sell for 325,  I guess 159 does seem like a pretty good price. Like I said, it's all relative. Plus u can make an offer to the ebay seller!


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> In case anyone is looking for tung-sol 5998 power tubes, there is a seller on ebay with stock, selling at a good price.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/184275559141
> 
> I just purchased two to keep as spares (already have a pair).


I cannot find any test results. So these are used.


----------



## kp297 (May 14, 2020)

Got my upgraded WA7 Fireflies back from Woo Audio today, desktop setup is finally complete! Thanks Mike for great service.


----------



## Krutsch

kp297 said:


> Got my upgraded WA7 Fireflies back from Woo Audio today, desktop setup is finally complete! Thanks Mike for great service.



A Z1 in the wild... nice.


----------



## kp297

Krutsch said:


> A Z1 in the wild... nice.


Thanks! There’s a few of us out there, I’m curious if there are any Woo amp owners who also own a DMP Z1. Haven’t seen any, maybe I can lure some out lol


----------



## mahesvara

kp297 said:


> I’m curious if there are any Woo amp owners who also own a DMP Z1



Me


----------



## kp297

mahesvara said:


> Me


Incredible setup!!! And a WA33? What’s the WA33 like if you don’t mind me asking?
Also, respect for the TAZH1ES. Nicely done.


----------



## CAJames (May 16, 2020)

I'm in the club!







My WA22 with  "budget RCA" tube line up: RCA brand (Sylvania made) 7N7, (ubiquitous) 6AS7G and a (cheap) USN-CRC 5Z3 rectifier of unknown provenance. It sounds fantastic either feeding the trusty Senn HD650s or as a preamp, I use it in both roles almost equally.

A couple of thoughts I haven't seen in the thread, although I admit I haven't read every post.

1) I've been playing a lot with "budget" power tubes, can't really see spending hundreds for the designer names. And it seems like there is a lot of synergy between the power tube and the rectifier. For example the 6AS7Gs sound great with the Z3 or an old 5U4, but pretty average with either a RCA Brownbase 5R4GY or a Mullard/Matshushita GZ34. OTOH I've got 6080WAs that are almost unlistenable with the 5Z3/5U4 but sound good with the 5R4/GZ34. Apparently stiffness matters .

2) In a lot of ways the preamp aspect is a lot more revealing of tubes than headphones. Several tube combos that sound pretty good on the 'phones are meh at best through the amp and speakers. Seems like there really is a lot more information, and more opportunity for nitpicking and/or neurosis when  the sound stage a spread out in front of you then when everything is just between your ears.

3) I really appreciate this thread, I've been reading it for a long time and it was instrumental in finally getting me to pull the trigger on a Woo. Well, that and needing to upgrade my personal listening situation for the lock down so I don't make my wife crazy.


----------



## mahesvara

kp297 said:


> What’s the WA33 like if you don’t mind me asking?



I have the impression I wrote up for my unit here.


----------



## Krutsch

So, six years later... I finally purchased a WA2, so I could move my WA3 to my office.

Would have purchased another WA3, but they are no longer for sale.

Thought hard about a WA22 or even a WA33; *but I have so many tubes for the WA2* ... and I am remodeling my house ... and my daughter is starting school in the fall ... and we may be heading into a world-wide economic depression.


----------



## CAJames

Krutsch said:


> *...but I have so many tubes for the WA2* ...



Nice stash!


----------



## kdphan

Anyone else use the Brimar/Mazda 6CG7/6FQ7 driver tubes in their WA22? Holy crap the mids sound awesome compared to the Tung Sol 1706.


----------



## ahossam (May 20, 2020)

Hi everyone, I need recommendation for good WA5 driver tubes, right now I am using tung sol 6sn7gt black round plates. 

Maybe you guys can recommend me something better or good driver tubes.


----------



## CAJames

ahossam said:


> Hi everyone, I need recommendation for good WA5 driver tubes, right now I am using tung sol 6sn7gt black round plates.
> 
> Maybe you guys can recommend me something better or good driver tubes.



A lot of people think those are among the best. But another option would be US Military tubes from WWII: RCA JAN 5692 "redbase" or Sylvania JAN VT-231. Others think the Mullard CV-181 is the holy grail of 6SN7  type tubes. Try a few and lets us know what you think!

For me, I'm OK spending 4 figures on audio gear that will last decades but something about my Scottish heritage rebels at spending hundreds on tubes that I consider "consumables." I'm using 7N7 tubes I got on ebay for less than 5 bucks each. Can't say how they compare to your Tung Sols or other "heritage tubes" but they sound really good, as good or better than the Sylvania WGTAs I got when I first got my WA22.


----------



## ahossam (May 25, 2020)

CAJames said:


> A lot of people think those are among the best. But another option would be US Military tubes from WWII: RCA JAN 5692 "redbase" or Sylvania JAN VT-231. Others think the Mullard CV-181 is the holy grail of 6SN7  type tubes. Try a few and lets us know what you think!
> 
> For me, I'm OK spending 4 figures on audio gear that will last decades but something about my Scottish heritage rebels at spending hundreds on tubes that I consider "consumables." I'm using 7N7 tubes I got on ebay for less than 5 bucks each. Can't say how they compare to your Tung Sols or other "heritage tubes" but they sound really good, as good or better than the Sylvania WGTAs I got when I first got my WA22.



I have my eyes on RCA 5692 redbase, thank you for your response.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

As I wrote somewhere above, I recently purchased my first tube amp, the WA3. I am impressed with the sound improvement (over RME ADI-2 Solid State). I would like to learn more about tubes. Currently my amp has a power tube - Tung Sol 5998 JAN and two driver tubes - Telefunken branded E88CC’s made by JJ Audio. I understand that these are upgrades over the stock tubes and quite good.

Nonetheless, to make my first steps into tube rolling, I have some really noob questions:

1) The amp uses two driver tubes. Does that mean that I cannot just buy two tubes of a certain type (for example these (this site just taken as an example - https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/pcc887dj8-philips-sleeved-5pcs-nos-valvestubes/). Is it correct that I cannot just select 2 from the pulldown menu and buy, but instead I have to find a site/seller that sells a pair of tubes which are matched very closely together? Or do I have to specially request that they match them (can I trust that the shop will do this well?)?

2) Are older (1950s, 60s, 70s) NOS tubes generally, most of the time preferable to any modern production tubes? I understand that my Telefunken E88CCs are new production even though there were historical Telefunken tubes?

3) What does the JAN mean at the end of some tube names? I see Woo is selling the Tung Sol 5998 currently, but not with JAN at the end of the name and the original owner was saying this is a very rare tube. Did he mean the JAN version?

4) Is it worth ordering from Woo Audio replacement stock tubes for the WA3 ($150) so I can see the difference compared to what I have now or are the WA3 stock tubes just a massive step down and I should instead try to find something in the price range of the Tung Sol and Telefunken?

5) If I don't want to got he eBay route at first, what are some trusted and not-premium priced European stores / website for buying tubes?


Sorry for the multitude of questions. I am very much enjoying the WA3 and hope to keep it for a long time and use it to explore different tube configs.


----------



## Odin412

CaptainFantastic said:


> As I wrote somewhere above, I recently purchased my first tube amp, the WA3. I am impressed with the sound improvement (over RME ADI-2 Solid State). I would like to learn more about tubes. Currently my amp has a power tube - Tung Sol 5998 JAN and two driver tubes - Telefunken branded E88CC’s made by JJ Audio. I understand that these are upgrades over the stock tubes and quite good.
> 
> Nonetheless, to make my first steps into tube rolling, I have some really noob questions:
> 
> ...



First, welcome to the world of tube amps! Tube rolling is fun, but can get expensive. I've added my answers below - others may have different opinions:
1. I usually don't bother with matching; I just order two tubes. I think I had one occasion where there was an audible channel imbalance between the tubes. Most of the time the non-matched tubes work just fine.  
2. Depends. I think the new-production 6922 tubes from Gold Lion are pretty good, but there are many vintage tubes that I enjoy also. Some folks are only into vintage tubes. 
3. JAN = Joint Army Navy, I believe. It's basically a military tube designation.
4. I would maybe order a pair of Electro-Harmonix 6922 at a lower price to see how you like the difference first before going after more expensive tubes.
5. There are a number of online tube sellers. Some that I have used are The Tube Store, Tube Depot, Upscale Audio, TC Tubes and Brent Jessee.

BTW, the Tung-Sol 5998 is a wonderful power tube, so it you'd like to try tube rolling I would suggest to try some other driver tubes first.


----------



## Bonddam

Have WA33 wondering about rectifier tubes. Currently have stock and Takasuki 274b. Woo made it sound like using tubes they don’t sell is void warranty. But I upgraded the power tubes to EML 2A3 mesh. And driver tubes EH gold pins.

How do I learn what tubes are compatible?
I was thinking about getting EML rectifier.
Is going cheaper the better route?


----------



## zeroduke

Bonddam said:


> Have WA33 wondering about rectifier tubes. Currently have stock and Takasuki 274b. Woo made it sound like using tubes they don’t sell is void warranty. But I upgraded the power tubes to EML 2A3 mesh. And driver tubes EH gold pins.
> 
> How do I learn what tubes are compatible?
> I was thinking about getting EML rectifier.
> Is going cheaper the better route?



You can find what you are looking for here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


----------



## pippen99

I don't think you can do better than the Takatsuki.  If you are looking for a quality backup for reasonable money I would go with the Sophia 274b Mesh.  I used them when I had the WA5 and found them quite fine.  If your looking for substantial changes in sound I don't believe changing rectifier tubes is the most effective method.


----------



## Bonddam

zeroduke said:


> You can find what you are looking for here:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


Thanks for the graph.


----------



## CaptainFantastic (May 25, 2020)

Odin412 said:


> First, welcome to the world of tube amps! Tube rolling is fun, but can get expensive. I've added my answers below - others may have different opinions:
> 1. I usually don't bother with matching; I just order two tubes. I think I had one occasion where there was an audible channel imbalance between the tubes. Most of the time the non-matched tubes work just fine.
> 2. Depends. I think the new-production 6922 tubes from Gold Lion are pretty good, but there are many vintage tubes that I enjoy also. Some folks are only into vintage tubes.
> 3. JAN = Joint Army Navy, I believe. It's basically a military tube designation.
> ...



Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

I will try the Sylvania 7308 JAN, even if they don't have gold pins. I suppose pairing the gold pin connectors of the amp with steel pins on the tube is not an issue.

Looking forward to seeing how a change of driver tubes can modify the sound, even if slightly.


----------



## Bonddam

pippen99 said:


> I don't think you can do better than the Takatsuki.  If you are looking for a quality backup for reasonable money I would go with the Sophia 274b Mesh.  I used them when I had the WA5 and found them quite fine.  If your looking for substantial changes in sound I don't believe changing rectifier tubes is the most effective method.


So I noticed a improvement with bass out of the HEDDphone using Tak 274b. 
I would rather save money till I needed to replace tubes.


----------



## Odin412

CaptainFantastic said:


> Thank you for taking the time to my questions.
> 
> I will try the Sylvania 7308 JAN, even if they don't have gold pins. I suppose pairing the gold pin connectors of the amp with steel pins on the tube is not an issue.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how a change of driver tubes can modify the sound, even if slightly.



Please let us know how you like the Sylvania 7308 JAN. I haven't tried that one myself.


----------



## reeltime

Hey Y'all:

Time to give Jack's products some love. I'm changing headphones, after several enjoyable years with the HifiMan HE1000 v2. I have a WA-5LE, elite package with Takatsukis where it counts. So let's talk HEADPHONES!

The top of the list for me are the three that get the most buzz these days the HEDD, Focal Utopia, and the Meze Empyrean. 

Of these three, the HEDD, given it's price is the most attractive. But I've not heard this headphone at all, and it's driver is so new, I'm not sure if there are similarities to be drawn. It's a complete unknown, though a relatively inexpensive unknown. 

The Meze has me interested for sure-- it has comfort and looks nailed. My thinking is that with the Meze-- I'm going to find myself on similar ground as my outgoing HE1000. Both planar magnetic-- but with better bass representation. It won't be a new sonic frontier, but a familiar sound. 

I'm leaning (as of this moment, today-- and let's face it-- this changes by the hour) toward the Focal because of the dynamic drivers and how they might best mesh with tube amplification. 

I've never been drawn to Audeze. The comfort alone is a nonstarter. I've had the HD-800 before, I don't feel the urge to revisit another Sennheiser at this time. I'm not sure there is enough power in the WA5LE to bring the best out of the Susvara. 

Let's play the game! Your thoughts please. What else do we have to do?


----------



## koven

reeltime said:


> Hey Y'all:
> 
> Time to give Jack's products some love. I'm changing headphones, after several enjoyable years with the HifiMan HE1000 v2. I have a WA-5LE, elite package with Takatsukis where it counts. So let's talk HEADPHONES!
> 
> ...



For WA5 pairing, definitely Utopia IMO. Meze is already pretty warm and laid back, paired with tubes that's going to sound borderline smeared/muffled.


----------



## phase0

reeltime said:


> The top of the list for me are the three that get the most buzz these days the HEDD, Focal Utopia, and the Meze Empyrean.
> ...
> I've never been drawn to Audeze. The comfort alone is a nonstarter. I've had the HD-800 before, I don't feel the urge to revisit another Sennheiser at this time. I'm not sure there is enough power in the WA5LE to bring the best out of the Susvara.



I've read recently on the Empyrean group generally it's too warm to mesh with tube amps well. I've heard it under show conditions and really liked it. I spent about 10 seconds with the Utopia in the WooAudio room at CanJam comparing with Abyss and Susvara to realize I must sell mine immediately and get the Abyss. YMMV I don't think the Utopia is awful but I also don't think it competes as a TOTL, it's bass-light. Maybe I'm just addicted to Planer Magnetic?

I just picked up an Audeze LCD-XC, the new default headband is quite comfortable. I previously had an XC and loved it paired with my WA5 v2 premium (also had Tak 300Bs, TSRP 6F8G)... I've got a real soft spot for Audeze. I missed my XC 

I might suggest checking out ZMF? I didn't get a chance to listen to the lineup yet past the Verite briefly but they look and sound great.

If you don't already have an Abyss AB1266 I'd go that route. IMO it's the best or right there on equal footing with the Susvara at the top if your taste goes that way.


----------



## vlach

koven said:


> For WA5 pairing, definitely Utopia IMO. Meze is already pretty warm and laid back, paired with tubes that's going to sound borderline smeared/muffled.



Precisely. I think by the time reeltime goes full circle, experiments and spends the money, he will realize that the HE-1000V2 is 'the best' sounding of the lot. It will be a lesson learned. Sometimes the future is predictable 😊


----------



## joseph69

vlach said:


> Precisely. I think by the time reeltime goes full circle, experiments and spends the money, he will realize that the HE-1000V2 is 'the best' sounding of the lot. It will be a lesson learned. Sometimes the future is predictable 😊


I also feel letting go of the v2 will be regretful.


----------



## davehg

Second the Utopia. Nice match with the WA5.


----------



## joseph69

davehg said:


> Second the Utopia. Nice match with the WA5.


Yes, I definitely enjoy my Utopia as well w/WA33.
Never heard the WA5, but I can only believe it sounds fantastic with both, HE1000v2/Utopia.


----------



## reeltime

There's something that has never quite clicked with the HE1000 and the WA5LE. They sounded fine. Even great in some places. But they rarely stun me in the way that other headphones have when paired with this amp. The HE1000V2 is a very good headphone, and it was top-tier for a time. But the Focal, HifiMan's own Susvara, and others have eclipsed them, to my ears. CanJam last year and some time at the Woo setup was pretty revealing. I have enjoyed my time with the HE1000V2, but I can't say I'll miss them. (They're for sale on eBay now).

The Abyss and Susvara are too power hungry for the WA5LE to really bring out their best. For the Susvara, Dr. Fang recommends amping it off of speaker terminals of optimum performance (the WA5LE lacks that feature). Not to say you can't get sound out of it on a lower powered amp, but to take full advantage of the design and capabilities of the headphone, it needs HE6 level amplification, more like the WA33, a 10W amp. The WA5LE isn't that. 

The Abyss isn't a headphone I can imagine wearing for long stretches. I was ready to set them aside by the end of the demo, let alone actually live with them. I couldn't stand the LCD4s. Way too uncomfortable and heavy. I don't feel the need to suffer for my art, no matter how good it sounds (and I'm not even a fan of their tonality).

If I'm dead wrong, it's not like I can't find another HE1000 out there. Tons of them for sale. But I'm looking forward to some new sound and I like adventures. It's a fun discussion anyway, right?

I think the Focal Utopia is where I'll likely land-- I'm interested in the HEDD. Kind of a fun exercise, to say the least.


----------



## JLoud

I have a WA5le second edition. That puts out 8 watts, more than enough for the Abyss TC. Not sure about the Susvara. I currently own the Abyss, LCD4, HEDDphone, and HE6se. The WA5 drives all of them easily. Had and sold the Utopia. It did pair very well with the WA5 though.


----------



## JLoud

The HEDDphone is similar to the Utopia. The Utopia is slightly faster, but it is very close. I couldn’t tell a difference on the Woo, but my HeadAmp gsx mk2 is lightening fast it brought out the speed of the Utopia. However as an all rounder the HEDDphone is very close to the Utopia at half the price. Also deeper more impactful bass.


----------



## JLoud

Depending on type of music and personal taste the Utopia may indeed be the one for you. I enjoy a little deeper bass and impact, so the Abyss and HEDDphone were my picks. Both sound beautiful on the WA5.


----------



## koven

JLoud said:


> Depending on type of music and personal taste the Utopia may indeed be the one for you. I enjoy a little deeper bass and impact, so the Abyss and HEDDphone were my picks. Both sound beautiful on the WA5.



-50% price.. but +50% weight!  Is the Hedd comfortable for long sessions?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Odin412 said:


> Please let us know how you like the Sylvania 7308 JAN. I haven't tried that one myself.



I ended up going with E88CC TESLA Gold-Pins / NOS. Made in Czechoslovakia in the 1970s. The website says that these are "the closest E88CC to the legendary Telefunken frame-grid E88CC tube", but the price for a matched pair was around 80€.

I warmed up the WA3 and let the music run for a few hours, now have been listening for a couple of hours. Obviously one can't A/B with tubes, but playing some tracks I know very well I would say that there is an obvious sound difference. These sound smoother than the Telefunken branded E88CC’s made by JJ Audio I had on before. The sounds seem more blended together, maybe this is what people mean when they say something sounds more "tubey". I really like the emotion it creates but definitely this is moving away from transparency. The New Telefunken had some sparkle, these are much mellower. 

But don't interpret much from what I say. I am too new to tubes.

Question: What are good practices with the WA3? Correct me on the below:

1) Turn the amp on, volume at 0, let it warm up 5 minutes minimum.
2) Start playing music not at a very loud volume for the first 10-15 minutes.
3) Don't leave it on without music/sounds playing. (Is this right? I read that the tubes suffer if they are warm and not under load)
4) If one wants to switch to other tubes, turn it off, wait 30 minutes for a full cooldown, then change tubes and go back to #1.


----------



## reeltime

koven said:


> -50% price.. but +50% weight!  Is the Hedd comfortable for long sessions?



At that price the HEDD may be worth simply trying-- though I think a few of these places offer auditioning periods-- and allow you to return headphones so long as you don't abuse them. 

I just picked up the 64 Audio Tia Fourte. The WA5 is too much for them, even on all low-power settings! They sound really nice on my portable rig, though. I picked them up for $2000 and they were like new. Amazing stuff we have to choose from today.


----------



## Odin412

CaptainFantastic said:


> Question: What are good practices with the WA3? Correct me on the below:
> 
> 1) Turn the amp on, volume at 0, let it warm up 5 minutes minimum.
> 2) Start playing music not at a very loud volume for the first 10-15 minutes.
> ...



Congrats on your new tubes! Tube rolling is fun and it's interesting to hear the (sometimes very subtle, other times less subtle) changes that the various tubes make. Here are my suggestions to your questions:

1 and 2) I turn it on and usually start listening right away - meaning as soon as the tubes produce sound. The amp sounds audibly better after the tubes have warmed up, which takes maybe 10-15 minutes.
3) I think it's OK to leave the amp on for a while. I wouldn't leave it on all the time since tubes have a limited lifetime. I've read somewhere that since the WA3 is a transformer-less amp you shouldn't leave it playing music with the volume knob at a non-minimum setting when there is no headphone connected. Also it's best to turn the volume knob to minimum before plugging or unplugging headphones since the TRS plus shorts the output of the amp when it's being inserted or removed.
4) Absolutely! Tubes get hot and you want to make sure they have cooled down before removing them. I usually wear a white cotton glove so I don't leave fingerprints when handling tubes, but that's just my preference. (Or maybe OCD? Either way it's what I do.)


----------



## JLoud

I find the headband on the HEDDphone just ok. I do tend to reposition it occasionally during long sessions. Overall for a heavy headphone it is fairly comfortable.


----------



## CAJames (May 29, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> ...4) If one wants to switch to other tubes, turn it off, wait 30 minutes for a full cooldown, then change tubes and go back to #1.



Only thing I would add is if you want to be extra careful unplug the amp if you change tubes. I don't wait 30 minutes, usually more like 5, but I always unplug.

And congrats on Teslas. I'm psyching myself up to by a pair of E83CC (12AX7) for my phono stage, a near copy of the famous TFK ECC803S. They cost more than 80 euros.


----------



## blackwolf1006

whats your thoughts on the WA8 driving the utopia?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

CAJames said:


> Only thing I would add is if you want to be extra careful unplug the amp if you change tubes. I don't wait 30 minutes, usually more like 5, but I always unplug.
> 
> And congrats on Teslas. I'm psyching myself up to by a pair of E83CC (12AX7) for my phono stage, a near copy of the famous TFK ECC803S. They cost more than 80 euros.



Thank you and Odin for the input on my questions.

Do you ever clean the pin connectors on your tubes after swapping them out and knowing they will be stored for a period of time? Or maybe the other way around, give them a wipe before swapping them in? If so, is CAIG DeoxIT GOLD the only product recommended for gold pins or are there alternatives? I am struggling to find it in the EU.


----------



## CAJames

I like DeoxIT for steel pins (I buy a lot of used tubes) but for gold pins I wouldn't use any product, just wipe with a soft cloth. The whole point of gold is that it doesn't corrode, leave it along and let it do the work for you. JMO of course.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

CAJames said:


> I like DeoxIT for steel pins (I buy a lot of used tubes) but for gold pins I wouldn't use any product, just wipe with a soft cloth. The whole point of gold is that it doesn't corrode, leave it along and let it do the work for you. JMO of course.



Thanks. But then which DeoxIT do you use for the steel pins, still DeoxIT Gold or which one is it for steel?


----------



## CAJames

CaptainFantastic said:


> Thanks. But then which DeoxIT do you use for the steel pins, still DeoxIT Gold or which one is it for steel?




I use DeokIT D100.


----------



## Krutsch

The new Woo arrived, yesterday!

Starting off with the provided tubes to acclimate to the sound. Will soon roll-in a pair of Western Electric 421a, Telefunken E188CC drivers, and Telefunken EZ80 rectifiers.

Initial impressions: well, it's louder   than my WA3, which is now at my office (Minnesota is re-opening for business). My WA3 is dead quiet at any volume, while the WA2 has a little background hum at high volume (maybe the provided tubes; we'll see when I roll if that goes away).

The WA2 has better definition/clarity, I think. Listening to remastered Julie London and it's just butter smooth with the HD-650s, which really crush the HD-660S when powered by Woo (I've been listening to my 660S a lot recently with the WA3).

This is going to end-game for a while... kid is heading off to college and that plastic sheeting in the background is home remodeling. Frankly, I can't believe my spouse let me get away with a new head amp.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Krutsch said:


> The new Woo arrived, yesterday!
> 
> Starting off with the provided tubes to acclimate to the sound. Will soon roll-in a pair of Western Electric 421a, Telefunken E188CC drivers, and Telefunken EZ80 rectifiers.
> 
> ...



Looks great! How did you choose the silver over the black? Is the black just painted over aluminum and therefore prone to paint chipping later on?

I am really looking forward to hearing your detailed impressions versus the WA3 when using the same tubes as you had on the WA3.


----------



## reeltime

CaptainFantastic said:


> Is the black just painted over aluminum and therefore prone to paint chipping later on?



No it's anodized aluminum. The finish will never wear off. Jack builds this stuff to last!


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Quick question: I've been running the WA3 with the Tung Sol 5998. I swapped it out for a much cheaper NOS - 6080 Telefunken GE, just to see the difference. Aside from the sound difference, I noticed that my amp got hot, meaning the metal part, the entire aluminium surface, whereas with the 5998, the tubes are hot but the amp stays metal cool to the touch. Is this because the 6080 Telefunken GE has a metal base (although it's not so wide that it touches the amp metal, from what I can tell)? Is it a malfunctioning tube or some tubes do this and the 5998 is just special?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CaptainFantastic said:


> 1) Turn the amp on, volume at 0, let it warm up 5 minutes minimum.
> 2) Start playing music not at a very loud volume for the first 10-15 minutes.
> 3) Don't leave it on without music/sounds playing. (Is this right? I read that the tubes suffer if they are warm and not under load)
> 4) If one wants to switch to other tubes, turn it off, wait 30 minutes for a full cooldown, then change tubes and go back to #1.



In general:

1. Set volume to 0 and turn on amp *with no headphones plugged in*
2. Wait a bit and then plug headphones in and adjust volume 
3. When done listening turn volume all the way down
4. *Unplug headphones*
5. Turn off amp


----------



## attmci

CaptainFantastic said:


> Quick question: I've been running the WA3 with the Tung Sol 5998. I swapped it out for a much cheaper NOS - 6080 Telefunken GE, just to see the difference. Aside from the sound difference, I noticed that my amp got hot, meaning the metal part, the entire aluminium surface, whereas with the 5998, the tubes are hot but the amp stays metal cool to the touch. Is this because the 6080 Telefunken GE has a metal base (although it's not so wide that it touches the amp metal, from what I can tell)? Is it a malfunctioning tube or some tubes do this and the 5998 is just special?


You can try to use a tube socket saver.


----------



## Ralf Hutter

gimmeheadroom said:


> In general:
> 
> 
> 4. *Unplug headphones*



Why?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ralf Hutter said:


> Why?



Good amps protect against transients with the use of relays. Plenty of amps that claim it is safe to turn off and on with headphones plugged in still don't do a very good job.

It's a good idea for headphones not to be connected during power on and off.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

attmci said:


> You can try to use a tube socket saver.



Thanks. But is it normal, that one power tube gets the amp hot after say 1 hr of use and with  the other power tube the amp is still cool, barely lukewarm after 2 hrs?


----------



## attmci

CaptainFantastic said:


> Thanks. But is it normal, that one power tube gets the amp hot after say 1 hr of use and with  the other power tube the amp is still cool, barely lukewarm after 2 hrs?


That's true. For example, the Bendix 6080 always run hotter than other 6as7g.


----------



## Krutsch

gimmeheadroom said:


> Good amps protect against transients with the use of relays. Plenty of amps that claim it is safe to turn off and on with headphones plugged in still don't do a very good job.
> 
> *It's a good idea for headphones not to be connected during power on and off.*



I've read the opposite is true; that you should always connect your 'phones before turning on and disconnect after turning off tube amps. I've read that this is less of an issue with OTL amps, but in general is best practice.

In fact, this is what Woo Audio recommends in user manual:

Turning the amplifier on:
1. Turn the volume knob to the lowest position.
2. Insert a headphone into phone jack 1.
3. Press the power switch 4 to a locking position. The LED will light.
4. Observe that all tubes light gradually.
5. Let the tubes warm up for at least 1 minute before turning up the volume.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

That doesn't mean what I wrote isn't the correct approach in general. If you develop good habits you're less likely to burn up an expensive pair of headphones.


----------



## Krutsch

A-a-h-h-h-h-h... now it sounds just right! I've never heard my HD-650s sound this sweet.

Drivers:  Telefunken E188CC

Power: GEC 6AS7G "Brown Base"

Rectifiers: Telefunken EZ80


----------



## pippen99

I too was advised to have a headphone hooked when powering up my WA33 EE.  It had something to do with the transformer needing a load.  I purchased a sacrificial $15 pair of headphones for this purchase.  I always unplug my headphones before powering down.  I do this for both my tube and SS amp.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Krutsch said:


> A-a-h-h-h-h-h... now it sounds just right! I've never heard my HD-650s sound this sweet.
> 
> Drivers:  Telefunken E188CC
> 
> ...



Very nice!

Thoughts on the 650 powered by the WA2 vs. the WA3?


----------



## Krutsch

CaptainFantastic said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Thoughts on the 650 powered by the WA2 vs. the WA3?



See this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite.428570/post-15659421


----------



## thecrow

a tube question/scenario:

I turned on my wa2 tonight. I came back to it about 45 min later.
The driver tubes (old gec6as7g) were not on.
When swapping tubes around with others I have come to the conclusion that only one of the tubes that were plugged in no longer work.

curious why if one power tube goes down that the other does as well.
i didn't realise they were intertwined? are they? and if so curious how.

all other tubes (eg rectifier and pre amp) were all lit.

ps there was no bang or loud noise at all (i was in the room). The tube simply was not working when i looked at the amp

any views, experiences or info is appreciated


----------



## joseph69

@thecrow 
Sounds like the driver tubes are in a series circuit, so if one goes out, none of them will work.


----------



## wishbon3

Just recently got a WA8 Eclipse, and I am definitely surprised at the capability of this little thing. Great product.


----------



## Roasty

I think I'm done with my tubes journey for this amp. Just received this beauty today! Did not have the will to pay for a WE274b, so this will have to do..









I do wish the print on the tube base would have faced directly forward when placed in the amp. Oh well. 

Probably the best combo of tubes I have now. Occasionally I swap out the Mullard ECC35 for TS tall boys or Ken Rad VT231.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Looks amazing.

And it's so good to see that good tubes are still being manufactured. Although the Takatsuki tubes are so expensive... are they even more expensive than almost the rarest of vintage tubes?


----------



## Bonddam

om my WA33 all the power tubes are backwards the Rectifier is fowards and the drivers are showing print in different directions.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Sorry if the following pictures won't show the WA3, so it may seem off topic. But given the post above about the amazing tube... I also have some excitement on my end. I found a pair of matched, NOS, 100% authentic Telefunken e88cc tubes. I won't try them yet because I am still testing the 421A Western Electric power tube with the Amperex Gold Pins 6922s bought directly from Woo Audio. 

Here are the pictures.

I am also hoping that I am done with tube buying for awhile as I have the following.


----------



## Krutsch

CaptainFantastic said:


> Sorry if the following pictures won't show the WA3, so it may seem off topic. But given the post above about the amazing tube... I also have some excitement on my end. I found a pair of matched, NOS, 100% authentic Telefunken e88cc tubes. I won't try them yet because I am still testing the 421A Western Electric power tube with the Amperex Gold Pins 6922s bought directly from Woo Audio.
> 
> Here are the pictures.
> 
> I am also hoping that I am done with tube buying for awhile as I have the following.



Nice! Dude, you will love that combination of tubes in the WA3.


----------



## ZigsterB33

Just took a major leap into pounding some good audio into my ears. My WA2 is on the way!

I've heard nothing but great reviews, excited to hear what it's all about. Cans are T1.2's.


----------



## Krutsch

ZigsterB33 said:


> Just took a major leap into pounding some good audio into my ears. My WA2 is on the way!
> 
> I've heard nothing but great reviews, excited to hear what it's all about. *Cans are T1.2's.*



I am looking for a great set of classical music 'phones to go with my new WA2. I am split between the HD-800S and the T1.2.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions with the T1 ... I've read great things about those cans on head-fi.


----------



## ZigsterB33

Krutsch said:


> I am looking for a great set of classical music 'phones to go with my new WA2. I am split between the HD-800S and the T1.2.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your impressions with the T1 ... I've read great things about those cans on head-fi.



Although I am not much of a classical listener, I do have a love for harmonies and instrumental tunes if that at all matches the profile. I am most definitely biased towards the Beyer's for their distinctively bright and 'clear' sound profile. Given my first cans were 250ohm 990s by Beyer, upgrading to their flagship was a no brainer for me. Santana being my favorite artist shines in his guitar shredding, and the percussion that features especially his earlier works goes crazy on the T1.2. Of course, I am working with the equivalent of a banana for an amp (Magni Heresy) in comparison to the WA2 that is on its way. I'll be sure to get back with my thoughts once she's set up!


----------



## vlach

ZigsterB33 said:


> Just took a major leap into pounding some good audio into my ears. My WA2 is on the way!
> 
> I've heard nothing but great reviews, excited to hear what it's all about. Cans are T1.2's.



Looking forward to your impressions. I'm very happy with the WA6 using T1 & HD800 but always wonder if i should've gone for the (more expensive) WA2 instead.


----------



## thecrow

Krutsch said:


> I am looking for a great set of classical music 'phones to go with my new WA2. I am split between the HD-800S and the T1.2.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your impressions with the T1 ... I've read great things about those cans on head-fi.


Defintely try the hd800(s) before deciding to buy the t1.


----------



## thecrow

vlach said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. I'm very happy with the WA6 using T1 & HD800 but always wonder if i should've gone for the (more expensive) WA2 instead.


The wa2 is silky smooth with the hd800. Better suited, imho, than the wa6se that i tried

but the wa2 is limited in headphones you can pair with it - mostly, but not exclusively, high impedance headphones


----------



## CAJames

Krutsch said:


> I am looking for a great set of classical music 'phones to go with my new WA2. I am split between the HD-800S and the T1.2...



How about an HD-650 or even -600? They really shine with an OTL amp. I listen mostly to classical and love my WA22 + HD650. 

Then you can spend the difference on tubes .


----------



## Krutsch

CAJames said:


> *How about an HD-650* or even -600? They really shine with an OTL amp. I listen mostly to classical and love my WA22 + HD650.
> 
> Then you can spend the difference on tubes .



I have an HD-650 already ... I've spent more that the "difference" on tubes. I am not a fan of the HD-650s with classical music, but love them with many other genres.


----------



## CAJames (Jun 26, 2020)

Anyone (still) using 6BL7/6BX7s in their WA22? I tried 6BL7s instead of 6080/6AS7s and was instantly sold. The only downside, as others have mentioned, there is a lot more gain. Lately I've started using 6BX7s because in theory they have less gain, and it is true, but I've tried 3 different pairs and many different rectifier tubes and there is always a little bit of hum. They sound great otherwise. Anyone else see this? Any solution?


----------



## ZigsterB33

Was disappointed to learn that the Preamp feature had been removed from the WA2. Does anyone have any insight on this?

Only reason I can imagine is that it was a steal and they’re looking to improve profits by forcing those with a Preamp interest to spend more on the WA22 or similarly more spendy amp/preamp combo.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ZigsterB33 said:


> Was disappointed to learn that the Preamp feature had been removed from the WA2. Does anyone have any insight on this?
> 
> Only reason I can imagine is that it was a steal and they’re looking to improve profits by forcing those with a Preamp interest to spend more on the WA22 or similarly more spendy amp/preamp combo.



That is disappointing. How did you find out about it?


----------



## ZigsterB33

@gimmeheadroom 

I actually just found it after scanning a dedicated WA2 thread on Headfi. They just blocked off the RCA outputs, I saw a user post a photo and I confirmed with the website, 2017 I believe?

Can’t say I’m not bummed, would have really pressed to find a used unit although they do run scarce. After referencing so many threads I didn’t think twice until I zoomed in on the unit featured on the Woo’s site.

I guess reality still goes that the WA2 is a killer amp. The added bonus of preamp would have been sweet down my audio journey line, though. Really wonder why they decided to move backwards, has to be profits?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks, I looked at the Woo site after I read your first post and indeed the outputs are blocked. I guess I missed the fact if it was 2017. I wanted to buy one recently and I didn't even realize the change.


----------



## ZigsterB33

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks, I looked at the Woo site after I read your first post and indeed the outputs are blocked. I guess I missed the fact if it was 2017. I wanted to buy one recently and I didn't even realize the change.



Although it isn’t labelled a Pre-amp as well as an amp on the website, the official manual on the website that I have referenced still clearly shows and mentions the use of the pre-amp RCA out ports. Without any due reasoning I think that comes in poor taste especially with the popularity I have read online with its preamplifier prowess.

Alas, I didn’t have plans to utilize that function for at least a few years anyways, that time would have come when I’d really get a nice speaker set up going. So in reality, it doesn’t change much for me. I think they responded that they removed it to develop an even better dedicated pre-amp, so screw my wallet, looks like maybe I’ll be forced to enjoy music of a finer quality than I would have planned on. Lol.

ZB


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ZigsterB33 said:


> Although it isn’t labelled a Pre-amp as well as an amp on the website, the official manual on the website that I have referenced still clearly shows and mentions the use of the pre-amp RCA out ports. Without any due reasoning I think that comes in poor taste especially with the popularity I have read online with its preamplifier prowess.
> 
> Alas, I didn’t have plans to utilize that function for at least a few years anyways, that time would have come when I’d really get a nice speaker set up going. So in reality, it doesn’t change much for me. I think they responded that they removed it to develop an even better dedicated pre-amp, so screw my wallet, looks like maybe I’ll be forced to enjoy music of a finer quality than I would have planned on. Lol.
> 
> ZB



I believe Woo is somewhat active on the forums, I hope they will explain the decision. If the manual stills shows the function that needs to be corrected.

I don't have a pressing need for a tube preamp right now either. But it would definitely be a nice thing to have.


----------



## ZigsterB33

gimmeheadroom said:


> I believe Woo is somewhat active on the forums, I hope they will explain the decision. If the manual stills shows the function that needs to be corrected.
> 
> I don't have a pressing need for a tube preamp right now either. But it would definitely be a nice thing to have.



I just shot an email over suggesting an update to the manual, as well as any reasoning behind the decision.

Anyways, can’t wait to hear this WA2 T1.2 combo when I get home!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ZigsterB33 said:


> I just shot an email over suggesting an update to the manual, as well as any reasoning behind the decision.
> 
> Anyways, can’t wait to hear this WA2 T1.2 combo when I get home!



That's super. I will be interested in your impressions. I expect to get one eventually to run my HD 600s and 800s out of.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

ZigsterB33 said:


> I just shot an email over suggesting an update to the manual, as well as any reasoning behind the decision.
> 
> Anyways, can’t wait to hear this WA2 T1.2 combo when I get home!



Usually they answer quickly, looking forward to hearing what they say.


----------



## ZigsterB33

I'm back with news, and it's all great. 

With just about 24 hours in on the WA2, I'm really digging it with the T1.2. It does get a little bright, although I have heard some tube rolling can fix that (and take the amp to the next level). It is a huge step up from my Magni Heresy, so I don't have much to compare it to, but I will share a more detailed account of my impressions once I get to spend some more time jamming. I also have a Schiit Multibit on the way to replace my Fiio Q1 Mark 2 as DAC, so I am curious what that will add to my listening experience. I was advised by Michael of the 150+ hour burn in period, so only up from here I suppose.

Regarding the removed pre-amp out, (I almost think this should become a thread?) this is the response I got from Michael: 

"_Our customers love that our products are well designed, well built and can be enjoyed for many years without the need to upgrade just to keep up with the Joneses on features. WA2 has been in production since 2004 and we make minor changes to improve the product throughout the years. Based on the feedback we received from customers, most of them did not use the pre-out so we dropped it to shorten the signal path and improved the headphone output performance. 

You can simply use the 1/4" headphone output as preamp out. It works the same way."_

So not only did they improve the output performance, they didn't even remove the pre-amplifier function. Not even listing this function on their website to me seems to be cutting themselves short, perhaps just directing attention at the WA22. Regardless, I am happy to know that when the time comes, I will be able to run the WA2 as a pre-amp. 

Misleading? Yes. Bad? Nope.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Well, I'm not sure the headphone out is the same as pre out. That's kinda hard to understand. But glad you like the sound!


----------



## ZigsterB33

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well, I'm not sure the headphone out is the same as pre out. That's kinda hard to understand. But glad you like the sound!



He linked me to the cord required, it would be a 1/4” jack to RCA inputs. So instead of RCAs on both ends, the headphone input acts as the pre-amp out.

Don’t have such a cord in my arsenal right now, or noteworthy speakers in need of pre-amplification. But it is a great to know it is there nonetheless.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ZigsterB33 said:


> He linked me to the cord required, it would be a 1/4” jack to RCA inputs. So instead of RCAs on both ends, the headphone input acts as the pre-amp out.
> 
> Don’t have such a cord in my arsenal right now, or noteworthy speakers in need of pre-amplification. But it is a great to know it is there nonetheless.



Oh I didn't mean how to connect it, sure the Y cable is obvious. I just meant a signal that is supposed to drive headphones is not preamp level. This sounds far from an optimal solution. Maybe I am missing something.


----------



## ZigsterB33

gimmeheadroom said:


> Oh I didn't mean how to connect it, sure the Y cable is obvious. I just meant a signal that is supposed to drive headphones is not preamp level. This sounds far from an optimal solution. Maybe I am missing something.



I definitely agree. I guess there’s only one way to find out how it sounds 😁


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ZigsterB33 said:


> I definitely agree. I guess there’s only one way to find out how it sounds 😁



Start with the volume all the way down


----------



## thecrow (Jul 1, 2020)

i have the wa2 with the pre amp.
I never enjoyed the preamp with my jbl monitors
maybe a bit too coloured
though i love the amp, particularly with my hd800

ended up buying (and easily preferring) this and going straight from my dac (no volume knob)
https://www.tcelectronic.com/product.html?modelCode=P0D71


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I don't like active monitors so I control the volume on an integrated amp into my passive monitors. That volume control looks kinda cool, nice solution for active monitors.


----------



## kokutouqian

Wondering if anyone has compared the WA5(le) with upgraded tubes and standard wa33. Searching for my endgame amp but auditing these beasts is almost impossible in my small town...


----------



## JLoud

I would really like to hear a comparison as well. I currently have a WA5le second edition. With EML rectifier and power tubes.


----------



## kokutouqian

JLoud said:


> I would really like to hear a comparison as well. I currently have a WA5le second edition. With EML rectifier and power tubes.


Nice setup! Have you ever tried Utopia on WA5? Wondering if 300B tube is a good match for sensitive dynamics like Utopia.


----------



## JLoud

I had that combo for about a year. Sounded really nice. Tubes helped to open the sound stage of the Utopia a bit. I'm partial to tubes so take my opinion with that in mind. On low power the WA5 had nice control and speed.


----------



## kokutouqian

JLoud said:


> I had that combo for about a year. Sounded really nice. Tubes helped to open the sound stage of the Utopia a bit. I'm partial to tubes so take my opinion with that in mind. On low power the WA5 had nice control and speed.


This is helpful, thanks for the review. Looking forward to see any reflections on WA33 vs. WA5.


----------



## TontNZ

Apologies if this is a slightly OT, but since these are for a WA5-LE I'm hoping for some slack.

I know of Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread and the Reference 6SN7 thread, but is there a dedicated 300B thread?


----------



## MrBasseyPants

I've had a WA6SE for about two years now, and I just recently acquired a WA2 to get a better idea of what an OTL amp sounds like. I like the sound of both (they both have upgraded tubes).  My question is this.  I've had my eye on the WA5-LE. Realistically, with the amps I have now, does the WA5LE sound more like an upgraded WA6SE or WA2 or is it its own thing? Do the tonal options I have now get a good chunk of the way there? I am not going to lie, the prospect of getting top notch tubes for the WA5LE seems kind of daunting.  I can't say I am unhappy with what I have now, but having two tube amps does seem kind of silly (but planars and WA2 are a no go).

Thanks for any input,
    jc


----------



## vlach

MrBasseyPants said:


> I've had a WA6SE for about two years now, and I just recently acquired a WA2 to get a better idea of what an OTL amp sounds like. I like the sound of both (they both have upgraded tubes).  My question is this.  I've had my eye on the WA5-LE. Realistically, with the amps I have now, does the WA5LE sound more like an upgraded WA6SE or WA2 or is it its own thing? Do the tonal options I have now get a good chunk of the way there? I am not going to lie, the prospect of getting top notch tubes for the WA5LE seems kind of daunting.  I can't say I am unhappy with what I have now, but having two tube amps does seem kind of silly (but planars and WA2 are a no go).
> 
> Thanks for any input,
> jc



I have the WA6 and I'm considering the WA2 also. 
Out of curiosity, if you had to let one of them go, which one would you keep?


----------



## MrBasseyPants

vlach said:


> I have the WA6 and I'm considering the WA2 also.
> Out of curiosity, if you had to let one of them go, which one would you keep?


I have the WA6SE which is different than the WA6.  

I don't know. The WA2 has a neat sound, but the WA6SE is cleaner and can drive a more varied set of headphones. I think that some careful EQing could replace the WA2 completely....or at least to the point where I wouldn't miss it.

Then again, if I had the THX AAA 789 first....I am not sure I would have found any of these amp to be worth the money. However, since it wasn't bought first...I appreciate the differences of a tube amp now... or at least that is what I am telling myself.

I am not an expert in sonic analysis...just looking to get the best of what sounds good to me.  Right now, the 789, WA2, and WA6SE are all great.  I'd probably just keep the WA6SE if I could only keep one though.


----------



## JLoud

I had the WA6se with EML rectifier and upgraded power/driver tubes for about a year before upgrading to the WA5le. Also with EML tube upgrades. The WA5le can drive anything I have thrown at it. Abyss 1266TC, LCD4, HE6se, and the HEDDphone. As well as many easier to drive headphones. If you like the WA6se, the WA5le is everything taken up a few notches. As to whether it is worth the cost, all relative I guess. If you aren't trying to drive very demanding headphones, I think I would stick with the WA6se and spend the money on other headphones or gear. If you aren't worried about the cost, it is definitely an upgrade.


----------



## MrBasseyPants

JLoud said:


> I had the WA6se with EML rectifier and upgraded power/driver tubes for about a year before upgrading to the WA5le. Also with EML tube upgrades. The WA5le can drive anything I have thrown at it. Abyss 1266TC, LCD4, HE6se, and the HEDDphone. As well as many easier to drive headphones. If you like the WA6se, the WA5le is everything taken up a few notches. As to whether it is worth the cost, all relative I guess. If you aren't trying to drive very demanding headphones, I think I would stick with the WA6se and spend the money on other headphones or gear. If you aren't worried about the cost, it is definitely an upgrade.


Thanks! Is the premium parts upgrade something you did as well?

     jc


----------



## Dan Fuentes




----------



## JLoud

I did not go with premium parts option. In hindsight I wish I had. Always wondering how much of a difference it would make.


MrBasseyPants said:


> Thanks! Is the premium parts upgrade something you did as well?
> 
> jc


----------



## kokutouqian

JLoud said:


> I did not go with premium parts option. In hindsight I wish I had. Always wondering how much of a difference it would make.


Just saw GSX in your possession. How do you like it compare with WA5LE?


----------



## JLoud

I prefer tubes, so I guess the WA5le is my favorite. But for things like EDM on my Abyss 1266TC, the speed and impact the GSX imparts can't be beat. If that was my primary genre, I would stick with the GSX. The WA5 imparts an expanded sound stage and warm mids. Something I really like. The GSX is very neutral. So if your headphones are a little bright, you will really notice it.


----------



## kokutouqian

JLoud said:


> I prefer tubes, so I guess the WA5le is my favorite. But for things like EDM on my Abyss 1266TC, the speed and impact the GSX imparts can't be beat. If that was my primary genre, I would stick with the GSX. The WA5 imparts an expanded sound stage and warm mids. Something I really like. The GSX is very neutral. So if your headphones are a little bright, you will really notice it.


Sounds like WA5 is what I am looking for, thx a lot!


----------



## vlach

MrBasseyPants said:


> I have the WA6SE which is different than the WA6.
> 
> I don't know. The WA2 has a neat sound, but the WA6SE is cleaner and can drive a more varied set of headphones. I think that some careful EQing could replace the WA2 completely....or at least to the point where I wouldn't miss it.
> 
> ...



Excellent feedback and answers a lot of my questions, thank you!
The WA6/SE also has the bonus of having a low/hi impedance switch making it compatible with even more headphones.


----------



## thecrow

MrBasseyPants said:


> I've had a WA6SE for about two years now, and I just recently acquired a WA2 to get a better idea of what an OTL amp sounds like. I like the sound of both (they both have upgraded tubes).  My question is this.  I've had my eye on the WA5-LE. Realistically, with the amps I have now, does the WA5LE sound more like an upgraded WA6SE or WA2 or is it its own thing? Do the tonal options I have now get a good chunk of the way there? I am not going to lie, the prospect of getting top notch tubes for the WA5LE seems kind of daunting.  I can't say I am unhappy with what I have now, but having two tube amps does seem kind of silly (but planars and WA2 are a no go).
> 
> Thanks for any input,
> jc


My hekse is VERY acceptable with my wa2 - was a nice surprise. My lcd2 were decent (ie ok or acceptable with bring bloated in bottom end). Empyreans definitely not good and definitely bloated bottom end


----------



## thecrow

vlach said:


> Excellent feedback and answers a lot of my questions, thank you!
> The WA6/SE also has the bonus of having a low/hi impedance switch making it compatible with even more headphones.


My wa2 is superb with my hd800. Silky. Smooth. It’s the only reason i keep it.

Also well suited with auteurs too.

unfortunately it’s limited in it’s matching with hps


----------



## dazKewl

Hi Woo Gang! Been doing a lot of reading here to learn more about the WooAudio amplifiers, so thank you for all the info posted here. Was wondering if you could please share your thoughts on how much you think a lightly used WA3 might be worth these days, with stock tubes. Seems like there are not very many of them left in the wild. Also, is there a list of compatible tubes for this amp around here? On their website, there's no info on WA3 anymore apparently. Thank you all in advance.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Driver Tubes -
6922 (Stock) 
6DJ8 
6N1P 
7DJ8 
6N23P 
7308 
E188CC 
E88CC 
E288CC 
ECC88 
CCa 

Power Tubes -
6080 (Stock)
1635 A 8-pin to 8-pin loctal adapter is needed.
421A Greater power. Western Electric branded.
5998 Greater power
A1834 
6AS7
6H13C No
6N5P 
7236 Greater power
2399 
6520 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html


----------



## dazKewl

Thank you! This should come in handy. What does the "greater power" part mean?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

I noticed that when I use a 5998 or 421A tube, the volume is louder than with the 6080 installed. So I guess greater power is as simple as louder, but it probably also improves even further the amp's drive of high impedance headphones. The 6080 tubes have plenty of power though to begin with. I hardly ever get to 11 o'clock.


----------



## dazKewl

Makes sense. Thank you. Any idea what a fair price for a WA3 might be these days?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

dazKewl said:


> Makes sense. Thank you. Any idea what a fair price for a WA3 might be these days?



About $450 + shipping. Typically you have to pay for the shipping because they are on the heavier side. But the thing is that people sell their Woo Amps together with the tubes they have, generally, since their replacement amp is likely to use other tube types. So if they are selling it with some upgraded tubes in good condition, the price can be higher. 

Speaking of which - If anyone has a black WA3 in great condition and thinking about selling, let me know. I am willing to make a very good offer.


----------



## Odin412

dazKewl said:


> Hi Woo Gang! Been doing a lot of reading here to learn more about the WooAudio amplifiers, so thank you for all the info posted here. Was wondering if you could please share your thoughts on how much you think a lightly used WA3 might be worth these days, with stock tubes. Seems like there are not very many of them left in the wild. Also, is there a list of compatible tubes for this amp around here? On their website, there's no info on WA3 anymore apparently. Thank you all in advance.



The WA3 is a great amp - I am very happy with mine.


----------



## Roasty

Could I get some advice? 
I have this pair of WE421a tubes in my wa22 and once in a while, in between songs, I can hear a background hum/ring. This disappears if I give the WE421a tubes one or two gentle taps; the hum/ring disappears and back to nice background silence. 

Is this a sign of tubes going bad or are they still settling in? (they're relatively unused tubes)..


----------



## Bonddam

All my planar and dynamics sound amazing off my WA33 tubes are EML 300b 2.5v, Takasuki 274B and EH 6c45 gold pin.


----------



## pippen99

I really would like to try the 300B 2.5 v but the market for 2A3 tubes is so limited I am afraid I would be stuck with the set I liked least.  I see you sold one pair of your 2A3 mesh.  I hope you are able to sell the other pair in a timely way.


----------



## Bonddam

pippen99 said:


> I really would like to try the 300B 2.5 v but the market for 2A3 tubes is so limited I am afraid I would be stuck with the set I liked least.  I see you sold one pair of your 2A3 mesh.  I hope you are able to sell the other pair in a timely way.


The 300B sound really good out of the box very dynamic. I hope the other two sell.


----------



## AccruedSolitude

dazKewl said:


> Hi Woo Gang! Been doing a lot of reading here to learn more about the WooAudio amplifiers, so thank you for all the info posted here. Was wondering if you could please share your thoughts on how much you think a lightly used WA3 might be worth these days, with stock tubes. Seems like there are not very many of them left in the wild. Also, is there a list of compatible tubes for this amp around here? On their website, there's no info on WA3 anymore apparently. Thank you all in advance.


did you end up getting one?


----------



## dazKewl

AccruedSolitude said:


> did you end up getting one?



I sure did, and I'm absolutely loving it.


----------



## elisiX

So I started in this hobby about 4 months ago and I’ve just received my first tube amp.

Keen to learn more, not so keen to go too deep on rolling, but so far I love the sound.

A few photos I took today.


----------



## SalR406

Beautiful photos.  Well done.  Enjoy the amp...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elisiX said:


> So I started in this hobby about 4 months ago and I’ve just received my first tube amp.
> 
> Keen to learn more, not so keen to go too deep on rolling, but so far I love the sound.
> 
> A few photos I took today.



Seriously nice setup. Nothing more required!


----------



## CAJames

Spectacular, both visually and musically.


----------



## xevman

Not sure if this is thread appropriate but I have no idea where else to ask this. Have any early gen WA6 and WA6-SE owners seen these green label Sylvania 6DE7 tubes with black plate structure? Can't find any info about them on the internet nor a single photo so I'm guessing they are quite rare?


----------



## guitargonaut (Sep 8, 2020)

xevman said:


> Not sure if this is thread appropriate but I have no idea where else to ask this. Have any early gen WA6 and WA6-SE owners seen these green label Sylvania 6DE7 tubes with black plate structure? Can't find any info about them on the internet nor a single photo so I'm guessing they are quite rare?



I have a pair of Sylvania 13DE7 which are the 13v equivalent.  Don't know how rare they may be considered, but they are my favorite 13DE7 style tube.


----------



## RobertSM

I've seen similar Sylvania 6DE7's come up on Ebay from time to time. I have no firsthand knowledge or experience with them myself though.


----------



## reeltime

My WA5LE gets a new friend:


----------



## MrBasseyPants

reeltime said:


> My WA5LE gets a new friend:



My heart sank when I watched your review... I am almost up to the top of the list and I thought I made a mistake with the VO.  I am glad to hear that some tweaking worked out well! I am hoping the VO sound just as good on my comparably moderate WA2 or WA6SE!

jc


----------



## RobertSM (Sep 11, 2020)

MrBasseyPants said:


> My heart sank when I watched your review... I am almost up to the top of the list and I thought I made a mistake with the VO.  I am glad to hear that some tweaking worked out well! I am hoping the VO sound just as good on my comparably moderate WA2 or WA6SE!
> 
> jc



Rest assured Verite pairs wonderfully with WA6-SE. Granted I think WA6-SE requires a good amount of investment in quality tubes but thats almost another story.

Also, Zach recommends 300 hours of burn in for a new pair of Verite. My experience is closer to 400 hours to really let the stiff surrounds loosen up.


----------



## RobertSM

Picture of my rig. Macbook pro->Chord Qutest->Woo Audio WA6-SE with NOS Toshiba 6DE7s(driver) & NOS Osram U52(rectifier)->ZMF Purpleheat wood LTD Verite.


----------



## thecrow

MrBasseyPants said:


> My heart sank when I watched your review... I am almost up to the top of the list and I thought I made a mistake with the VO.  I am glad to hear that some tweaking worked out well! I am hoping the VO sound just as good on my comparably moderate WA2 or WA6SE!
> 
> jc


Auteur is great with my wa2


----------



## koven

5x KR burning in on the WA33.. even in the early hours so far, it sounds much better than the stock set.


----------



## thecrow

I don’t read many posts praising the wa5le with the susvara.

does the wa5 come up short?
Is there much extension if using the Takatsuki 300b tubes?

i’m considering the susvaras with niimbus us4 but the wa5le has always intrigued me. Especially if it works well with the susvara and utopias

(I love the wa2 with my hd800)


----------



## JLoud

Have not heard it with the Susvara. But owned the Utopia and it paired nicely with the WA5le. The Abyss TC and Hifiman HE6se also paired well. I used EML 300B's and liked them very much.


----------



## reeltime

thecrow said:


> I don’t read many posts praising the wa5le with the susvara.
> 
> does the wa5 come up short?
> Is there much extension if using the Takatsuki 300b tubes?
> ...



Generally (YMMV), the rule of thumb is SET amps are better paired with dynamic drivers. I sold my HE1000 v2 to test this theory. But I don't have enough time in to draw any conclusions yet.


----------



## Roasty

koven said:


> 5x KR burning in on the WA33.. even in the early hours so far, it sounds much better than the stock set.



Is this an endgame headphone amp for u? How do u like it with the TC and Susvara vs the bakoon?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

koven said:


> 5x KR burning in on the WA33.. even in the early hours so far, it sounds much better than the stock set.



That's like what, a million dollars in tubes? 

Great to see some Czech audio hit the mainstream!


----------



## koven

Roasty said:


> Is this an endgame headphone amp for u? How do u like it with the TC and Susvara vs the bakoon?



Yes I think it sounds better than any other headphone amp I've used including Bakoon. The synergy w/ Susvara is great but w/ TC it's incredible.
I can see myself trading up to the Elite eventually, maybe next year, will enjoy the standard for now. 



gimmeheadroom said:


> That's like what, a million dollars in tubes?
> 
> Great to see some Czech audio hit the mainstream!


----------



## Wid

Just joined the ranks of Woo owners. Bought this beautiful WA3 from another Headfier. Just got it yesterday and put a few hours on it so far. Sounds fantastic with all the Headphones I’ve tried so far. Have the HD 600’s on right now.


----------



## reeltime

Wid said:


> Have the HD 600’s on right now.



That is a PERFECT pairing for that amp. Congrats.


----------



## Odin412

Wid said:


> Just joined the ranks of Woo owners. Bought this beautiful WA3 from another Headfier. Just got it yesterday and put a few hours on it so far. Sounds fantastic with all the Headphones I’ve tried so far. Have the HD 600’s on right now.



Congratulations! The WA3 is a super amp with high-impedance headphones. I think you'll love it.


----------



## Wid

I tried Grado RS2's and Grado PS500's and they paired pretty darn good too.


----------



## reeltime

Anything dynamic should pair fairly well. Avoid magnetic planers.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Wid said:


> Just joined the ranks of Woo owners. Bought this beautiful WA3 from another Headfier. Just got it yesterday and put a few hours on it so far. Sounds fantastic with all the Headphones I’ve tried so far. Have the HD 600’s on right now.



Smart purchase, right combo. 

Did you get the one with the upgraded capacitors that was posted on the For Sale forum recently?


----------



## Wid (Sep 18, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> Smart purchase, right combo.
> 
> Did you get the one with the upgraded capacitors that was posted on the For Sale forum recently?



Yes that is the one. To be honest I’m not sure what that upgrade really does.


----------



## Wid

Just for the record, "Captain Fantastic" was the first CD I played with the new amp. It is probably my all time favorite


----------



## reeltime

Wid said:


> Yes that is the one. To be honest I’m not sure what that upgrade really does.



Makes the amp less noisy.


----------



## Roasty

Hey guys. Is it possible to connect the wa22 pre out to the balanced input on a Headamp GSX Mini?


----------



## xevman

Roasty said:


> Hey guys. Is it possible to connect the wa22 pre out to the balanced input on a Headamp GSX Mini?


Yes but you would now have 2 volume controls to attenuate the signal. One on the WA22 and one on the GSX. You want to set the volume on the Woo at an appropriate level as you could potentially risk overloading the input of the GSX mini giving you harsh clipping/distortion.


----------



## Dredge Collaborative

CaptainFantastic said:


> I noticed that when I use a 5998 or 421A tube, the volume is louder than with the 6080 installed. So I guess greater power is as simple as louder, but it probably also improves even further the amp's drive of high impedance headphones. The 6080 tubes have plenty of power though to begin with. I hardly ever get to 11 o'clock.


On a WA22, I notice the same thing. The TS 5998 tubes also result in the WA22 running much cooler.


----------



## Dredge Collaborative

Roasty said:


> I think I'm done with my tubes journey for this amp. Just received this beauty today! Did not have the will to pay for a WE274b, so this will have to do..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A spectacular purchase!!! How does it sound? I only have the stock rectifier and USAF 596 as a reference but would be interested in your thoughts on how the Takatsuki sounds.


----------



## Roasty

Dredge Collaborative said:


> A spectacular purchase!!! How does it sound? I only have the stock rectifier and USAF 596 as a reference but would be interested in your thoughts on how the Takatsuki sounds.



I've not tried the usaf 596 but always liked how it looks. Stock is actually not too bad; I like it over the langrex and RCA 5u4g.

Tak274b is a special tube.. I like it over the we422, brimar 5z4g and mullard gz32. Price is killer though.. For cheaper u can consider the psvane we274 1:1 replica which I think is actually quite good; had a bit of hum but it has since disappeared after settling down. Can't really find any fault with the psvane. Tak274b sounds the most "alive" to me, with nice sensation of breath and air. Gec u52 has somewhat similar sound but I think they're quite hard to find. Another nice tube to consider is the EML 5u4g.


----------



## JLoud

I felt the EML 5U4G had a bigger sound stage while the USAF 596 was a little faster sounding. In my WA6se. Same thing in my WA33.


----------



## CAJames

Roasty said:


> I've not tried the usaf 596 but always liked how it looks. Stock is actually not too bad; I like it over the langrex and RCA 5u4g.
> 
> ... For cheaper u can consider the psvane we274 1:1 replica which I think is actually quite good; had a bit of hum but it has since disappeared after settling down. Can't really find any fault with the psvane....



I know a lot of people that really like the Psvane rectifiers. Only complaint is it seems like a lot of them fail early for such an expensive tube. But if you get a good one you're set.


----------



## vlach

Looking for a WA2 in silver if anyone is looking to sell...


----------



## vlach

If anyone ever wondered what the power transformer looks like in the WA6...


----------



## RobertSM

Roasty said:


> I've not tried the usaf 596 but always liked how it looks. Stock is actually not too bad; I like it over the langrex and RCA 5u4g.
> 
> Tak274b is a special tube.. I like it over the we422, brimar 5z4g and mullard gz32. Price is killer though.. For cheaper u can consider the psvane we274 1:1 replica which I think is actually quite good; had a bit of hum but it has since disappeared after settling down. Can't really find any fault with the psvane. Tak274b sounds the most "alive" to me, with nice sensation of breath and air. Gec u52 has somewhat similar sound but I think they're quite hard to find. Another nice tube to consider is the EML 5u4g.




I agree on the U52. Outstanding tube.


----------



## Wid

Been looking through some threads and see WooWA 3+ mentioned quite a bit. How does one tell the difference between the 3 and the 3+? And what is the difference? I’ve tried the search function but to no avail.


----------



## Wid

Does anyone know what the actual difference between the Woo WA3 and the 3+ is? I’ve emailed Woo a few times and they confirmed I have a 3+ but didn’t answer my question on what the difference was.


----------



## grokit

Wid said:


> Does anyone know what the actual difference between the Woo WA3 and the 3+ is? I’ve emailed Woo a few times and they confirmed I have a 3+ but didn’t answer my question on what the difference was.


There's some relevant info on this page:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wa3-wa3-and-wa6-differences-and-mods.505772/


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Roasty said:


> Hey guys. Is it possible to connect the wa22 pre out to the balanced input on a Headamp GSX Mini?



have you tried this? 

Running Woo’s or any headphone amp as a pre is always interesting.

I used to like the WA2 as a preamp, would be interesting to see how the WA22 performs.


----------



## Roasty

Dubstep Girl said:


> have you tried this?
> 
> Running Woo’s or any headphone amp as a pre is always interesting.
> 
> I used to like the WA2 as a preamp, would be interesting to see how the WA22 performs.



I never got round to trying it. Perhaps this weekend. I did try the wa22 + ahb2 to susvara, but oddly it sounded a bit shrill with bass sucked out. Gsx Mini + ahb2 sounded better. May give the wa22+ahb2 a second try as well.


----------



## grokit

The WA22 performs flawlessly as a balanced preamp. It's dead quiet, while imparting Woo's "most euphonic" presentation.


----------



## Dredge Collaborative

I agree wholeheartedly but with bias as I own the WA22


----------



## Roasty (Sep 30, 2020)

Ok so I gave it a shot.

WA22 pre to GSX Mini (to Susvara) is better than WA22 alone.

There is more bass and sub-bass/low end rumble. To get a similar amount of bass with wa22 alone, I need to raise the volume more, but then this results in the highs overpowering and becoming too shrill/loud. The low end rumble is very nice. Can't really replicate with wa22 alone.

End result is a more balanced sound. Mids also sound slightly fuller. Soundstage no perceptible difference.

If I have time tomorrow I will try wa22+gsx mini vs gsx mini alone.


----------



## thecrow

Roasty said:


> Ok so I gave it a shot.
> 
> WA22 pre to GSX Mini (to Susvara) is better than WA22 alone.
> 
> ...


I’m thinking the gsx mini is not as exceptional or (close enough to) ideal with the hard to drive susvaras that some others (ie not you) have initially professed it to be.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

I was enjoying this series this evening. At 16:36 Dan says that there are a lot of different ways to design a circuit in terms of how much current goes through it, how much stress is put on the tube at start-up. At 17:27 he says that there are manufacturers who design circuits that "burn up tubes".

Do you guys know, how does Woo do on this, for the WA3 that I own for example? Is it fairly gentle on the tubes or aggressive and reducing lifespan?


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Oct 1, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Ok so I gave it a shot.
> 
> WA22 pre to GSX Mini (to Susvara) is better than WA22 alone.
> 
> ...



great to hear! They don’t make WA2 pre anymore and was curious about WA22 pre. I used to own both amps at one point and enjoyed the pre wa2. never tried wa22 pre.

I currently use a gsx mk2 as a pre to my first watt j2 for my speakers and been curious how a woo would do. I use WA5 as well (main amp, but wish this had a pre, that would be insane).

edit: just tried gsx mk2 pre into WA5, wow, I like it, gets more dynamic and punchy.


----------



## grokit (Oct 2, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> I was enjoying this series this evening. At 16:36 Dan says that there are a lot of different ways to design a circuit in terms of how much current goes through it, how much stress is put on the tube at start-up. At 17:27 he says that there are manufacturers who design circuits that "burn up tubes".
> 
> Do you guys know, how does Woo do on this, for the WA3 that I own for example? Is it fairly gentle on the tubes or aggressive and reducing lifespan?



I read in an old review that "because they're completely tube-based, including the rectifiers", Woo amps start up slowly and have longer tube life.
It's referring to the WA2, but I think that would also include at least the other Woo amps with rectifier tubes.
Here it is: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2010/12/woo-audio-wa2-headphone.html


----------



## cddc (Oct 2, 2020)

grokit said:


> I read in an old review that "because they're completely tube-based, including the rectifiers", Woo amps start up slowly and have longer tube life.
> It's referring to the WA2, but I think that would also include at least the other Woo amps with rectifier tubes.
> Here it is: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2010/12/woo-audio-wa2-headphone.html




It may take couple of mins to bring tube rectifiers up to speed, but the main factors to determine tube life are the voltages loaded onto the plates and grids


----------



## cddc

Dubstep Girl said:


> great to hear! They don’t make WA2 pre anymore and was curious about WA22 pre. I used to own both amps at one point and enjoyed the pre wa2. never tried wa22 pre.
> 
> I currently use a gsx mk2 as a pre to my first watt j2 for my speakers and been curious how a woo would do. I use WA5 as well (main amp, but wish this had a pre, that would be insane).
> 
> edit: just tried gsx mk2 pre into WA5, wow, I like it, gets more dynamic and punchy.




Using 300B's as pre will be too luxury 

I think the best place for 300B is in headphone amps. Because of the limited power/current capacity, I don't think tubes are sufficient to drive speakers (of course those gigantic custom-made tubes are anomalies)


----------



## grokit

grokit said:


> I read in an old review that "because they're completely tube-based, including the rectifiers", Woo amps start up slowly and have longer tube life.
> It's referring to the WA2, but I think that would also include at least the other Woo amps with rectifier tubes.
> Here it is: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2010/12/woo-audio-wa2-headphone.html





cddc said:


> It may take couple of mins to bring tube rectifiers up to speed, but the main factors to determine tube life are the voltages loaded onto the plates and grids


No reason both can't be true? I don't think these two concepts are mutually exclusive.
The lowered voltages can be because of rectifier tubes being used, in place of solid state components.


----------



## cddc (Oct 2, 2020)

These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

What I was trying to say is that during start up tube rectifiers might take couple of mins to bring voltages up to speed (vs almost none with SS rectifier), and the lowered startup voltages can possible help.

But the main deciding factors that affect tube longevity are the voltages loaded onto tube plates and grids. If tubes are pushed too hard they will have a shortened life. Other factors include whether you switch on and off your amp too frequently, whether you move tubes all around all the time, etc.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

cddc said:


> Using 300B's as pre will be too luxury
> 
> I think the best place for 300B is in headphone amps. Because of the limited power/current capacity, I don't think tubes are sufficient to drive speakers (of course those gigantic custom-made tubes are anomalies)



theres plenty of tubes that can drive speakers, though sometimes they have to get creative.

generally though for amps like the WA5, a 300B tube based design in a class A SET, you will get around 8-10 watts of power. so speaker efficiency has to be high, like my Omega speakers at 97dB. that means the woo audio 5 can get them to around 106dB of volume at full power, which is plenty loud for most purposes, if I use my preamp as well, I can probably get it a little higher. my first watt j2 at 25W can probably get to 112dB or very close to that. that said, the WA5 is great for speakers with high efficiency, Omega, Zu, Tekton, older Klipsch, Devore, are some choices. sound quality of WA5 is on par with many 300B speaker only amps

l


----------



## cddc

You are correct, 300B’s are good for some sensitive speakers, but that’s limited to some sensitive speakers only, bookshelf speakers at best. No way for them to drive these gigantic tower speakers and subwoofers, even in some push-pull 300B configurations (15-18 watts?).

I personally still think headphone amps is the best place for 300B or 2A3 tubes. If you need large power for these tower speakers, the only feasible choice is solid state amps, but of course you can add some tube pre-amp to get some tubey sound. Or possibly one can spend $$$$$$$$ to get these custom biggies


----------



## cddc

Of course one would need several AC's in order to listen to these custom tubes, i guess...LOL


----------



## JLoud

cddc said:


> You are correct, 300B’s are good for some sensitive speakers, but that’s limited to some sensitive speakers only, bookshelf speakers at best. No way for them to drive these gigantic tower speakers and subwoofers, even in some push-pull 300B configurations (15-18 watts?).
> 
> I personally still think headphone amps is the best place for 300B or 2A3 tubes. If you need large power for these tower speakers, the only feasible choice is solid state amps, but of course you can add some tube pre-amp to get some tubey sound. Or possibly one can spend $$$$$$$$ to get these custom biggies



That is gotta be the coolest looking amp I have ever seen. Sounds great just looking at the picture.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

JLoud said:


> That is gotta be the coolest looking amp I have ever seen. Sounds great just looking at the picture.



And, as a bonus, if you're in a cold climate it invalidates the need for winter heating.


----------



## cddc

Good for winter for sure, I guess you don't need a stove in your wall anymore


----------



## CAJames

cddc said:


> You are correct, 300B’s are good for some sensitive speakers, but that’s limited to some sensitive speakers only, bookshelf speakers at best. No way for them to drive these gigantic tower speakers and subwoofers, even in some push-pull 300B configurations (15-18 watts?).
> 
> I personally still think headphone amps is the best place for 300B or 2A3 tubes. If you need large power for these tower speakers, the only feasible choice is solid state amps, but of course you can add some tube pre-amp to get some tubey sound. Or possibly one can spend $$$$$$$$ to get these custom biggies



Actually, everything else being equal a big speaker is going to be more sensitive than a bookshelp speaker. The big cabinet makes it louder with the same power, and gives it better base response. Of course everything else is rarely equal, but there are a lot more "big" speakers out there with sensitivities above e.g 95 dB then there are bookself speakers.

Regardless, that is a super cool amp !


----------



## UMN

*WA6 Rectifier inquiry:* I rotate the rectifiers and drivers on my WA6 1st gen for a change of pace. I have an early 50's RCA 5u4g and an early 50's Ken Rad 5v4g (also manufactured by RCA). I have 2 sets of 6fd7 drivers RCA and Sylvania. My headphones are Drop 6xx (aka HD650s). I listen mainly to jazz. Can anybody with a similar set up compare the sound of the RCA 6v4g to that of either the Brimar or Mullard 5v4g versions? Thank you!


----------



## davehg

cddc said:


> Using 300B's as pre will be too luxury
> 
> I think the best place for 300B is in headphone amps. Because of the limited power/current capacity, I don't think tubes are sufficient to drive speakers (of course those gigantic custom-made tubes are anomalies)



Plenty of 300b amps are designed for efficient speakers. I used my WA5 quite success to drive a pair of ProAc super tablettes, and more recently a pair of Devore Super 8s. They don’t have quite the control of bass that EL34 or KT88s based amps. But a decent sub, like my REL Strata III, blends nicely.


----------



## reeltime

I just got a note from Western Electric— they are readying my 300B shipment. Should be VERY interesting.


----------



## JLoud

When I had a WA5le I was eagerly awaiting some reviews on the new issue Western Electric 300B. Ran out of patience and bought a WA33. Interested to hear your thoughts. Would be nice for everyone, except vintage resellers, it they can compete with the originals.


----------



## reeltime

😳


----------



## JLoud

Always an exciting email to receive. I’m waiting for a notice like that from HeadAmp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow nice to see they shipping now! good to know more pairs available


----------



## reeltime

First Impressions


----------



## RobertSM

reeltime said:


> First Impressions





Well done!


----------



## Ryno1330

Hi all. I have a used Wa3 arriving soon. I'll be using it primarily with HD6xx's, which sound like should be a great match. I have 2 questions though.

1) It's my first tube amp. If I use it with lower impedance cans like Audeze Lcd-x's will that be a problem or cause damage? 

2) If anyone that has tube rolled the Wa3 has any recommendations would love to hear them.

Thanks!


----------



## Wid

Ryno1330 said:


> Hi all. I have a used Wa3 arriving soon. I'll be using it primarily with HD6xx's, which sound like should be a great match. I have 2 questions though.
> 
> 1) It's my first tube amp. If I use it with lower impedance cans like Audeze Lcd-x's will that be a problem or cause damage?
> 
> ...



i tried the Sundara on my Woo 3+ and found they didn’t fair so well, much better control with my SS amp. Grado’s sound pretty good though. I’m thinking it’s the driver style more than the lower impedance. The 3+ has a choke that is suppose to play lower impedance phones better. Plus mine has upgraded caps and resistors.

For a power tube I use a Tung Sol 5998 and a set of Gold Lions as drivers. The 7236 power tubes are also a great alternative to the 6080. Look in the for sale thread, there’s a nice Sylvania 7236 for sale, yes it’s mine.


----------



## Odin412

Ryno1330 said:


> Hi all. I have a used Wa3 arriving soon. I'll be using it primarily with HD6xx's, which sound like should be a great match. I have 2 questions though.
> 
> 1) It's my first tube amp. If I use it with lower impedance cans like Audeze Lcd-x's will that be a problem or cause damage?
> 
> ...



Congratulations on your WA3! It's a great amp for the HD6XX. I'm not sure if it will work with your LCD-X though. I don't think there is any danger of damage, but it may not sound good. I'm currently using a Sovtek 6AS7G power tube with Brimar E88CC driver tubes and I'm enjoying that combo.


----------



## Krutsch

Ryno1330 said:


> Hi all. I have a used Wa3 arriving soon. I'll be using it primarily with HD6xx's, which sound like should be a great match. I have 2 questions though.
> 
> 1) It's my first tube amp. If I use it with lower impedance cans like Audeze Lcd-x's will that be a problem or cause damage?
> 
> ...



Looks like it's that time of year again: 

To cut to the chase on the low-cost end *for the drivers *I strongly recommend these:

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-black-diamond-e88cc-6922

They sound fantastic, have great clarity and imaging ... almost holographic compared to many of my other driver tubes. New they are about $50 US each, as I recall.

...if you want to spend more money, my other favorites are 

*Siemens CCa *(NOS), 
*Siemens E288CC *(NOS - mine are re-branded as Philips) or 
*Telefunken E188CC *(NOS); 

all are WAY more expensive, but can be found on eBay. I have more tubes (see my profile), but these are the ones I rotate between.

For the  *power tubes, that one is harder *(read: more expensive). I recommend the following, in ascending order:

3. *Tung-Sol 7236*
 - clean and crisp sound, less bloomy or tubey (are those real words?), decent power and fast dynamics (compared to other 6080 compatible tubes). That last part is real; after spending a lot of time with the next two tubes, I noticed the speed right away with the TS 7236.

*Note: I have  *Sylvania 7236 *tubes that don't sound half-bad; are close in sound, less expensive and less rare.
Maybe try these - I haven't listened to these for a while?

2. *Tung-Sol 5998* (or Chatham 2399) - the Chatham tubes are re-branded TS 5998, but my pair has somewhat different sound characteristic between the types, which might be a factor of wear. The TS 5998 is a favorite of many and presents a lot of bass and more "tube sound". IMO, it's a very syrupy tube with a lot of "bloom"; with the HD-650s, I think it sounds quite pleasing for some music, like warm guitar rock or female vocals.

1. *Western Electric 421a *- these have been described as the "holy grail" for 6080 compatible tubes; so far, I agree. Many believe these are identical to the TS 5998, of this I respectfully disagree. These tubes are now stupidly expensive on eBay. IMO, the Westys combine the best of the TS 7236 and the TS 5998 - that is, there is good bass and oomph, but with less bloom (i.e. less bleed of lower frequencies into the lower mids). The speed is good (not as great as the 7236, IMO), but what really separate the Westys from the pack is the clear, warm tonality. Seriously, with this glass, I can listen all night and lose track of the time.

*Note: I have a collection of *6AS7Gs* from *RCA* (black plates) and *Tung-Sol*, but folks who know better usually advocate the *GEC* version, which is expensive and more rare (I have a pair in my WA2 and they sound pretty great).


----------



## Wid (Nov 14, 2020)

Krutsch said:


> Looks like it's that time of year again:
> 
> To cut to the chase on the low-cost end *for the drivers *I strongly recommend these:
> 
> ...




I agree with all of this.I prefer the Tung Sol 5998 but also really like the Tung Sol 7236. Tried a couple 6080 tubes and really not a fan.  For an inexpensive driver tube you can also look at the current production Gold Lion E88CC/6922


----------



## reeltime

Wanted to throw you guys an update on my new Western Electric 300Bs (posted a video about them a few weeks ago):

They sound better than the Taks to my ears, but two of them developed a chatter, they sent out one replacement and it developed a loud popping like it was going to blow. Shades of Elrog 1st gen tubes. Might want to hold off a bit until they get QC under control, if you're considering a purchase. 

The positives are massive-- better sounding 300B. But this being the first run, and I'm a lab rat right now. The really, really good news is that unlike Elrog, Western Electric have a 5-year warranty on these tubes. You write them and you get an actual human response. They're standing by their products.


----------



## attmci

Krutsch said:


> Looks like it's that time of year again:
> 
> To cut to the chase on the low-cost end *for the drivers *I strongly recommend these:
> 
> ...


Which is 421A? 5998?


----------



## cddc

Krutsch said:


> 1. *Western Electric 421a *- these have been described as the "holy grail" for 6080 compatible tubes; so far, I agree. Many believe these are identical to the TS 5998, of this I respectfully disagree. These tubes are now stupidly expensive on eBay. IMO, the Westys combine the best of the TS 7236 and the TS 5998 - that is, there is good bass and oomph, but with less bloom (i.e. less bleed of lower frequencies into the lower mids). The speed is good (not as great as the 7236, IMO), but what really separate the Westys from the pack is the clear, warm tonality. Seriously, with this glass, I can listen all night and lose track of the time.




Tubes with the same internal structures are always the same tube (one being the original and the other being the rebrand), I have never seen exceptions. WE 421A and Tung Sol 5998 are no different.

The sound difference perceived can very likely be attributed to the psychological effect - people tend to believe more expensive tubes sound better, even though sometimes they are hearing exactly the same tube. Sometimes the difference can come from different batches - some small variations on getter shape/location and tube construction materials over the years .

WE 421A and Tung Sol have the same internal structure, and also have the same transconductance. In fact some WE 421A tubes were labeled as "421A / 5998" on their bases. 
I did some research on WE 421A and Tung Sol 5998 a while ago and found that they are the same tube. For details:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crack-bottlehead-otl.476650/post-15927789

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crack-bottlehead-otl.476650/post-15930093


----------



## davehg

A question for WA5 owners.

My Genelex Gold Lion 300bs have given up the ghost after less than 60 hours. First one tube then about a year later, the other. Symptoms are one channel loses volume, and the problems follows the tube as I switch it to the other channel. Definitely the 300bs and not the 6SN7 or 274bs.

I‘ve put the stock Shugangs back in which surprised me with their power but am wanting to try something more smooth sounding and reliable and won’t break the bank. The Taks are out of my value window, but the EMLs look promising. There are three versions: basic at about $600, the XLS for another $140 extra, and the mesh for and additional $140.

what’s the difference and is it worth going to the XLS or Mesh? Are they reliable? Should I consider any others in that price range?

Ive been mostly listening to speakers, not phones, recently. The WA5 drives a pair of Devore The Nines as well as the Super 8s wonderfully.


----------



## moemoney

davehg said:


> A question for WA5 owners.
> 
> My Genelex Gold Lion 300bs have given up the ghost after less than 60 hours. First one tube then about a year later, the other. Symptoms are one channel loses volume, and the problems follows the tube as I switch it to the other channel. Definitely the 300bs and not the 6SN7 or 274bs.
> 
> ...


I’m interested as well in your responses. As well as other recommendations.


----------



## reeltime

davehg said:


> what’s the difference and is it worth going to the XLS or Mesh? Are they reliable? Should I consider any others in that price range?



There are few tubes that will outperform the EML Mesh 300B. The only tubes I've personally heard (I haven't heard every tube on the market) that sound better are: 1) The Elrog, which I will never EVER buy again because I refuse to support a company that ghosts its users. 2) The Takatsuki which until the Western Electric were the king of the hill. 3) the Western Electric which outperforms the Tak, but appears to be having reliability issues for now. 

So the answer to me would be the EML Mesh (the XLS gives up tube-ness for a slightly stronger bass, allegedly. I have not verified)-- or the Takatsuki at around twice the price. Neither suffer significant failures. Not to say they never happen, all tubes die at some point, but these are established quality manufacturers of 300B tubes.

The EML Mesh will deliver about 85% to 90% of the Takatsuki, in my opinion, which is to say, they're very very good tubes, and reliable as hell.


----------



## davehg

reeltime said:


> There are few tubes that will outperform the EML Mesh 300B. The only tubes I've personally heard (I haven't heard every tube on the market) that sound better are: 1) The Elrog, which I will never EVER buy again because I refuse to support a company that ghosts its users. 2) The Takatsuki which until the Western Electric were the king of the hill. 3) the Western Electric which outperforms the Tak, but appears to be having reliability issues for now.
> 
> So the answer to me would be the EML Mesh (the XLS gives up tube-ness for a slightly stronger bass, allegedly. I have not verified)-- or the Takatsuki at around twice the price. Neither suffer significant failures. Not to say they never happen, all tubes die at some point, but these are established quality manufacturers of 300B tubes.
> 
> The EML Mesh will deliver about 85% to 90% of the Takatsuki, in my opinion, which is to say, they're very very good tubes, and reliable as hell.



Thanks Reel. Did you ever try the basic EML?


----------



## reeltime

davehg said:


> Thanks Reel. Did you ever try the basic EML?


No, I only owned the Mesh.


----------



## JLoud

I had the EML mesh on my WA5le. They sound fantastic. I also had the Gold Lions and much preferred the EML. Bigger stage and sweeter midrange. Never had any issues. I really like the EML mesh 5U4G as well. However the Takatsuki is on another level.


----------



## reeltime

By the way-- if you are considering the Takatsuki, buy them here, and save a bunch of money:

https://www.partsconnexion.com/TSUKI-81942.html


----------



## JLoud

Same site has the 274b for a phenomenal price. I would spring for the Takatsuki for the price difference. I feel they are that good.


----------



## reeltime

JLoud said:


> Same site has the 274b for a phenomenal price. I would spring for the Takatsuki for the price difference. I feel they are that good.



Yes I bought both the 300 and 274 from there. They're in Canada.


----------



## moemoney

reeltime said:


> Yes I bought both the 300 and 274 from there. They're in Canada.


I received my 300bs today as well from the same people in Canada. Would love to pick up a pair of 274s as well, but would love to know what they bring to the game.


----------



## JLoud

I found the Tak 274b to combine the best of the 596 and EML 5U4G mesh. In other words very fast and distinct imaging of the 596, but with the large soundstage of the EML mesh. In fact I would say the image is more 3D if you will. Because of clear imaging you can pick out placements of instruments better. But where the 596 can be somewhat flat in it's staging and the EML is bigger stage wise, the Tak combines these to give a very large but clearly defined sense of space. For me at least. 
Chain is Mac mini<flac<Yggdrasil<WA33<Abyss TC


----------



## Roasty

I've not tried the 596, but have the EML 5u4g mesh and tak274b. On the wa33, so far it seems the KR274b sound the most fun (a bit brighter, punchy, engaging), the tak274b sounds the smoothest (pleasant top end, thick mids), and the EML 5u4g is somewhere in the middle of the others.

Tak274b I agree with JLoud is the most 3d holographic feel and best soundstage of the above.


----------



## moemoney (Dec 1, 2020)

Well I’m blown away by the way the 300Bs sound right now, and having the 596s already I can’t even imagine how it’s going to sound looking forward to getting my 274B hopefully Very soon.


----------



## moemoney

Also in regards to the tak309B and the tak274 what would be the the best drive tubes to pursue, right now I’m using Sophia Electric Blue Glass 6sn7, and to my ears they don’t sound too bad, I like them better than the Hytron 6sn7s but I have to admit I haven’t heard them all and y’all guys have heard way more than me.


----------



## JLoud

I like the 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin. Woo has them on their site. Although you may find them cheaper elsewhere.


----------



## Stereolab42

I would again suggest the PSVANE WE300B Plus tubes, available on eBay. I must have 1500 hours on mine so far and they sound great with absolutely zero trouble at all. They are definitely more transparent than my EML 300B mesh tubes.


----------



## VandyMan

I've been running Shuguang WE300B Plus tubes in my WA5 for about a 18 months now without any issues. They are significantly better than the stock tubes, but I don't have anything else to compare them to. Next year, I'd like to give either the new Wester Electrics or Taks a try.


----------



## davehg

I think I’m going to pursue the EML XLS since my amp does double duty powering Devore Nines and I could use the extra juice the XLS seems to provide over the mesh. Either that or the Sophia Princess Electric 300b. I’d love to try the Taks but I’d almost rather spend that extra towards upgrading other aspects of my system - like a more powerful integrated amp for the speakers. The Woo does a fine job but I’m always curious about what more power can do. Eyeing the Leben CS600x, which is supposed to have a stellar headphone capability as a bonus, which is the inverse of the WA5, which is a wonderful headphone amp that happens to have a stellar speaker capability.


----------



## davehg

well, I just ordered a Leben CS600x integrated amp to better drive my Devore loudspeakers. On the Leben thread, lots of love for both the 300 and 600 as a headphone amp, so looking forward to seeing how the Leben stacks up.


----------



## Pomps

Hello guys,

just received my wa22. Fantastic SQ, but alas... hum.... a lot of it... is this normal? Faulty device/bad disign or something else. I would appriciate your answers?


----------



## reeltime

What's your source? Sounds like a grounding issue.


----------



## Pomps

No, it hums with or without source. I tried also different wall sockets etc, powering off wi-fi, other electronic devices...


----------



## Roasty

I had a slight hum with my wa22 on initial setup but it went away after a while. Maybe running in the unit and tubes will help. What headphones are you using? At the time, the hum was much more apparent with my Utopia than the Empyrean.


----------



## JLoud

Is it a hum through headphones or the unit itself? I have slight hum from my WA33 unit. Nothing through headphones. I changed my rectifier and it lessened. Thinking of getting a better power conditioner. Not sure if that will help.


----------



## Dredge Collaborative

Pomps said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> just received my wa22. Fantastic SQ, but alas... hum.... a lot of it... is this normal? Faulty device/bad disign or something else. I would appriciate your answers?




I had the exact same issue with my WA22. I live in a older building without 3-prong sockets so if you're in the similar situation, grounding might be the issue. I was able to try the unit at a buddy's place with 3-prong sockets and the hum went away. There is a chance that I could be dealing with another type of interference but don't know for sure.

I deal with this by using my Diana V2 headphones where the noise is barely audible. With my HD820, the humming and intermittent high pitch blips make the listening experience unbearable unless I'm really drunk.

Hope this helps.


----------



## reeltime

Try lifting the ground. Get a 3-prong to 2-prong adapter. See if that helps.


----------



## davehg (Dec 19, 2020)

Well, it looks like another of my Genelex Gold Lion 300b tubes is wonky. The volume on the right side started to get softer, and I swapped tubes left to right and it followed. Anyone else have this problem with Genelex? I probably have maybe 40 hours on them combined.

I swapped back in the stock Shugang and the bass was better but mids and highs less so. After 2 hours it got better, but it is not nearly as smooth as the Genelex.


----------



## moemoney

davehg said:


> Well, it looks like another of my Genelex Gold Lion 300b tubes is wonky. The volume on the right side started to get softer, and I swapped tubes left to right and it followed. Anyone else have this problem with Genelex? I probably have maybe 40 hours on them combined.
> 
> I swapped back in the stock Shugang and the bass was better but mids and highs less so. After 2 hours it got better, but it is not nearly as smooth as the Genelex.


Sorry to hear about your tubes, but you stated that another Genelex Gold Lion 300b tube went bad? Just curious how many have you invested in?


----------



## davehg

Three so far. Two have gone south.


----------



## moemoney

davehg said:


> Three so far. Two have gone south.


I have the same amp. and just started upgrading my tubes, I try to look at what Woo Audio is selling then look on the web to see if I can find them at a better price.


----------



## davehg (Dec 20, 2020)

moemoney said:


> I have the same amp. and just started upgrading my tubes, I try to look at what Woo Audio is selling then look on the web to see if I can find them at a better price.



Yeah, there’s really no free ride with the WA5. A decent pair of 300bs is about $800 (EML), plus $200 for good NOS 6SN7s, then another $200-320 for the rectifiers. And that’s not the top of the line 300bs either but really just good mid level. I think the amp is the cheapest part!

I’ve been stock piling tubes for my soon to arrive Leben 600, and even four top end Winged C EL34s are only under $300. With the Leben, the amp is the most expensive part. Gold Lion KT77s are but $50, the line stage tubes are less, and the rectifier NOS tubes are all of $7! For the price of one pair of EML 300bs, I got three sets of 4 matched EL34/KT77s, a full quartet of line stage tubes, and four rectifiers. 

I’m done with the Gold Lion 300bs though. 2 out of 3 bad tubes at $145 a pop is not my idea of fun.


----------



## reeltime

davehg said:


> Yeah, there’s really no free ride with the WA5. A decent pair of 300bs is about $800 (EML), plus $200 for good NOS 6SN7s, then another $200-320 for the rectifiers. And that’s not the top of the line 300bs either but really just good mid level. I think the amp is the cheapest part!
> 
> I’ve been stock piling tubes for my soon to arrive Leben 600, and even four top end Winged C EL34s are only under $300. With the Leben, the amp is the most expensive part. Gold Lion KT77s are but $50, the line stage tubes are less, and the rectifier NOS tubes are all of $7! For the price of one pair of EML 300bs, I got three sets of 4 matched EL34/KT77s, a full quartet of line stage tubes, and four rectifiers.
> 
> I’m done with the Gold Lion 300bs though. 2 out of 3 bad tubes at $145 a pop is not my idea of fun.



If you can swing the extra money, the Western Electrics are worth it and you get a 5 year warranty with the tubes.


----------



## moemoney

reeltime said:


> If you can swing the extra money, the Western Electrics are worth it and you get a 5 year warranty with the tubes.


I agree with Western Electric, but there's a long waiting list for that 300b tube and the ones that I have seen on sale by individuals selling on Ebay and AudiogoN are asking crazy prices. I decided to go the Takatsuki route, there not cheap either but you can get your hands on them faster. so far I have the TA 300b and waiting on a pair of TA 274 for driver tubes I'm using the Hytron 6SN7s


----------



## reeltime

moemoney said:


> I agree with Western Electric, but there's a long waiting list for that 300b tube and the ones that I have seen on sale by individuals selling on Ebay and AudiogoN are asking crazy prices. I decided to go the Takatsuki route, there not cheap either but you can get your hands on them faster. so far I have the TA 300b and waiting on a pair of TA 274 for driver tubes I'm using the Hytron 6SN7s



Taks have solid reliability and phenomenal sound. Good choice!


----------



## cj3209 (Dec 20, 2020)

Dredge Collaborative said:


> I had the exact same issue with my WA22. I live in a older building without 3-prong sockets so if you're in the similar situation, grounding might be the issue. I was able to try the unit at a buddy's place with 3-prong sockets and the hum went away. There is a chance that I could be dealing with another type of interference but don't know for sure.
> 
> I deal with this by using my Diana V2 headphones where the noise is barely audible. With my HD820, the humming and intermittent high pitch blips make the listening experience unbearable unless I'm really drunk.
> 
> Hope this helps.


I seem to also have a hum issue with my newly delivered WA22.  I upgraded the rectifier tube.  The noise seems to be coming from my right driver tube socket because when I fiddle with the tube, the noise lessens.  It's not too bad after about 20 minutes and I only notice it during silent passages.  Using a 3 to 2 prong adapter lessens the noise a bit but doesn't completely get rid of the noise.  I also use an AC conditioner and also tried connecting directly to the wall.  No effect on either.  

I'm just assuming tube amps are not supposed to be dead quiet like solid state amps.  The sound is glorious with my Diana Phi headphones and that's all that matters to me.


----------



## reeltime

cj3209 said:


> I seem to also have a hum issue with my newly delivered WA22.  I upgraded the rectifier tube.  The noise seems to be coming from my right driver tube socket because when I fiddle with the tube, the noise lessens.  It's not too bad after about 20 minutes and I only notice it during silent passages.  Using a 3 to 2 prong adapter lessens the noise a bit but doesn't completely get rid of the noise.  I also use an AC conditioner and also tried connecting directly to the wall.  No effect on either.
> 
> I'm just assuming tube amps are not supposed to be dead quiet like solid state amps.  The sound is glorious with my Diana Phi headphones and that's all that matters to me.



Woo amps should be very quiet. Try an extension cord to a different circuit in the house. The other thing is amp bias. I don't own the WA22. On the WA5 you have bias pots that can eliminate mild hum. They may not be accessible on your amp. It's ground, no question-- but where? It's going to be some trial and error. You could try using the amp as a central ground. Run a wire between your components (a loosen a screw on the chassis of each and fix a wire) and the amp in a star pattern with the Woo at the center of the star.  Different things you can try.


----------



## Dredge Collaborative

cj3209 said:


> I seem to also have a hum issue with my newly delivered WA22.  I upgraded the rectifier tube.  The noise seems to be coming from my right driver tube socket because when I fiddle with the tube, the noise lessens.  It's not too bad after about 20 minutes and I only notice it during silent passages.  Using a 3 to 2 prong adapter lessens the noise a bit but doesn't completely get rid of the noise.  I also use an AC conditioner and also tried connecting directly to the wall.  No effect on either.
> 
> I'm just assuming tube amps are not supposed to be dead quiet like solid state amps.  The sound is glorious with my Diana Phi headphones and that's all that matters to me.



Which rectifier tube are you using? I’ve tried the USAF 596 and stock. I had noise with both rectifiers.


----------



## cj3209

Dredge Collaborative said:


> Which rectifier tube are you using? I’ve tried the USAF 596 and stock. I had noise with both rectifiers.


The USAF one.  I ordered a ground loop hum exterminator.  Will report how effective it is.


----------



## Mediahound

Woo is getting in to the cable business. Here's my 'first look' at one of their interconnects:


----------



## joseph69

cj3209 said:


> The noise seems to be coming from my right driver tube socket because when I fiddle with the tube, the noise lessens.


----------



## joseph69

Did you swap the tue from the R to L and have the same issue?


----------



## cj3209

joseph69 said:


> Did you swap the tue from the R to L and have the same issue?


Swapping doesn't do anything and fiddling doesn't affect the sound once I swap.  I'm about to replace both tubes soon. Will report back.


----------



## Dredge Collaborative

cj3209 said:


> Swapping doesn't do anything and fiddling doesn't affect the sound once I swap.  I'm about to replace both tubes soon. Will report back.



Funny, I had the same exact problem. Right driver tube seemed to be the issue, but the only thing that worked was using the unit at a buddy's place being that I live in an old building without ground wiring. Please let me know if you find a solution. I did find that the stock driver tubes and the Tung Sol 5998 tubes don't make a difference although the 5998 tubes are a great upgrade!


----------



## moemoney

I assume you already did this but if you haven’t have you switch the tubes around to see if that static comes the other channel


----------



## Dredge Collaborative

moemoney said:


> I assume you already did this but if you haven’t have you switch the tubes around to see if that static comes the other channel


I have tried that, but thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## cj3209

Still get hum even with $80 noise remover inserted at amp power cable end to conditioner.  Next step is to try some different tubes.


----------



## Krutsch

cddc said:


> *Tubes with the same internal structures are always the same tube* (one being the original and the other being the rebrand), I have never seen exceptions. WE 421A and Tung Sol 5998 are no different.
> 
> ...



That much is true.

But I haven't seen any 5998s that look like my WE 421As, which I purchased years ago from a Western Bell employee's estate sale in Wisconsin, in their original boxes.

For sure, there are some 421As that are simply rebranded TS 5998... but that is not always the case. And there is some discussion on earlier vs later models.

My post on this topic is in an interesting thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vis...998-western-electric-421.506133/post-12490846

I know I posted pics showing the structural differences between my collection of TS 5998 and WE 421a tubes, but I must have posted those pics somewhere in this thread and not the linked thread I reference above (and I am too lazy to search for that post).


----------



## davehg

I bought a stash of 6SN7s and a spare 6080 and 5AR4 at our local PC recycle place. Looks like a few winners assuming they test out - most look perfect. Which ones would you favor?

Includes:

Two pairs of Westinghouse, a grey plate and black plate.
Two pairs of Sylnania JAN 6SN7W’s
Pair of RCA GTB (very little getter left)
Raytheon GTB pair and one GTA
One GE GTA
Pair of Sylvania GTBs, one new in box
Sylvia is 5U4GB


----------



## cj3209

cj3209 said:


> Still get hum even with $80 noise remover inserted at amp power cable end to conditioner.  Next step is to try some different tubes.


Woo Audio offered to inspect my WA22 (thx, Mike L.!) but I want to wait for my tubes to settle and, hopefully, reduce the hum.  Music through this amp with stock tubes (updated the rectifier tube) is really sweet.


----------



## levinhatz

Hi all!

I haven't posted on this site in years.... My desktop amp broke a while back and I kind of drifted away from head-fi, but recently replaced it with a Woo WA6-SE and I'm getting back into it!

Along with the amp I bought a Sophia Princess 274B Aqua rectifier tube. I'd been told it would be a significant upgrade over the stock tube. And it is, I just have one issue with it after a couple of weeks of listening and A/Bing back and forth. The mids are a little bit further recessed and generally there seems to be a bit of a darkness to it. I'm plugging my old LCD-2 into it and something I love about that headphone is that I can get nearly (but not quite) Grado RS1-like mids/vocals without the treble peaks of the Grado, and of course a wider soundstage. Some of that magic gets lost with this rectifier tube. I've got the Sophia Mesh Plate 274B on the way to me as well, and I'll be testing that one out. Pulled the trigger on that simply just because it seems to be lauded on Head-Fi by almost anyone here who owns the WA6-SE.

Haven't started getting fancy with interconnects and headphone cables just yet. Last amp was balanced XLR, so all my good cables are XLR terminated. Still using the stock Audeze 1/4 inch cable and some monoprice RCA interconnects into my Yggdrasil DAC. I plan on doing the DAC some better justice in the near future- just haven't gotten there yet.

Wondering though- does anyone here have experience with both the SP 274B Aqua and Mesh Plate Rectifiers? If not I will certainly find out in a few days


----------



## JLoud

I had the same combo of WA6-se and Yggdrasil. Another tube to consider is the EML 5U4G mesh. I felt it had a large yet detailed soundstage and great mid-range.


----------



## levinhatz

JLoud said:


> I had the same combo of WA6-se and Yggdrasil. Another tube to consider is the EML 5U4G mesh. I felt it had a large yet detailed soundstage and great mid-range.



 Thanks, I'll give that one a look!


----------



## cj3209

cj3209 said:


> Woo Audio offered to inspect my WA22 (thx, Mike L.!) but I want to wait for my tubes to settle and, hopefully, reduce the hum.  Music through this amp with stock tubes (updated the rectifier tube) is really sweet.


Well, I found the source of my hum:  it was the stock pair of 6080 power tubes.  I replaced them with a pair of Tung Sol 5998 tubes and the hum disappeared.  

Holy Sh--...the sound is so good:  palpable, sweet, and listenable (is that a word?).

Kudos to Mike L. of Woo Audio for prompt response and offer to check on the WA22.

Here's my setup:  Mac mini - ROON - Metrum Acoustics Ambre - XI Audio Sagra DAC - WA22 - Abyss Diana Phi.


----------



## Astral Abyss

cj3209 said:


> Well, I found the source of my hum:  it was the stock pair of 6080 power tubes.  I replaced them with a pair of Tung Sol 5998 tubes and the hum disappeared.
> 
> Holy Sh--...the sound is so good:  palpable, sweet, and listenable (is that a word?).
> 
> ...


I don't think I've tried my Diana on my WA6-SE.  I need to.   Usually blasting metal on them through the  GSX mini


----------



## moemoney

It was a couple of days late but I’m still a happy camper


----------



## JLoud

I never ran the Taks in my WA5le but I am currently in my WA33. I really like them. Very detailed yet with a large soundstage. My favorite rectifier.


----------



## cddc

Krutsch said:


> That much is true.
> 
> But I haven't seen any 5998s that look like my WE 421As, which I purchased years ago from a Western Bell employee's estate sale in Wisconsin, in their original boxes.
> 
> ...



I've read your quoted post. You've never seen TS 5998 coming with WE421A's bottom "D" getters, so you concluded that they're different tubes.

But the problem is that your sample size is too small. There are TS 5998 tubes that come with bottom "D" getters.


----------



## Barnstormer13

levinhatz said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I haven't posted on this site in years.... My desktop amp broke a while back and I kind of drifted away from head-fi, but recently replaced it with a Woo WA6-SE and I'm getting back into it!
> 
> ...



I have listened to the Sophia mesh plate. I would put it as a substantial upgrade over the stock tube, but a step down from an RCA 5U4G hanging filament (new Condition for both). I’d also look into Sylvania 13DR7 driver tubes.


----------



## levinhatz

Barnstormer13 said:


> I have listened to the Sophia mesh plate. I would put it as a substantial upgrade over the stock tube, but a step down from an RCA 5U4G hanging filament (new Condition for both). I’d also look into Sylvania 13DR7 driver tubes.



The Sophia Mesh Plate showed up and upon comparing the two I think I prefer the Mesh. The Mesh is much more neutral. My impression anyway. Ended up selling the Aqua to a user on here who was probably interested in taming a bright headphone.


----------



## davehg (Jan 19, 2021)

I scored a nice Hickok tube tester that was just serviced to test the batch of 6SN7 NOS tubes I scored for a buck a tube. Happily most were in the 3000gm range, and only one tested 1800gm. I popped in the Raytheon GTBs and was surprised at their increased gain. Great low level detail.The WA5 sounds way more transparent with the Raytheon’s. These are the side getter versions.  I’m going to try these out for a week then swap to the Sylvanias.


----------



## Justin_Time

Hello everyone!

Has anyone here had any experience using the German-made Elrog 300B with the Woo WA5 or WA5-LE?  Are they compatible?


----------



## moemoney

Justin_Time said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Has anyone here had any experience using the German-made Elrog 300B with the Woo WA5 or WA5-LE?  Are they compatible?


I would like to know the answer to that as well. But it seems like it should work.


----------



## joseph69

Here is the Woo Audio Compatibility Chart.
You can also call Woo or George at TubesUSA which carries Elrog.


----------



## davehg (Jan 21, 2021)

Timely topic. I’ve had bad experiences with two Genelex Gold Lion 300b tubes In my WA5. After an hour or so, the volume in one channel drops, and when swapping the problematic tube to the left or right, it follows the tube. The replacement Gold Lion 300b has the same problem. Switching back to the Shugang 300b cures the problem completely. I don’t have other 300b brands to test.

I have a Hickok 539a tester that shows all three tubes testing fine. I’ve selected the two closely matched tubes but it really doesn’t matter. The common factor seems to be that my amp doesn’t mate with Genelex Gold Lion 300bs.


----------



## George Chronis

Hi all,

I just bought a used WA5-LE. I took it out of the box and when I lift the power supply it feels like the whole internal part or some big piece of it is wiggling inside like it is suspended on some kind of spring. Is this by design or is something unscrewed inside? I don't hear anything clanking.

Thank you.


----------



## davehg

Open it up from the bottom side. Easy to peek inside.


----------



## JLoud

Maybe a transformer came loose. You can take the covers off and look. They are secured from the top with long bolts. Easy to remove and you can't hurt anything.


----------



## George Chronis

That’s exactly what it was. Except I had to get the board out from the inside in order to remove the rear transformer housing, because there was no way to get to the bottom nuts to tighten them. Good as new. Really excited to fire it up.

Thank you guys for jumping on it.


----------



## JLoud

Glad you fixed it. Wonderful amp. I enjoyed mine for several years before moving up to the WA33.


----------



## George Chronis

JLoud said:


> Glad you fixed it. Wonderful amp. I enjoyed mine for several years before moving up to the WA33.



There my next move  I saw one on the classifieds recently (may still be there) with Taks I believe, going forward something like $7k and was very tempted, but not quite there yet, financially. Did you get the maxed out WA33 or the “base”? What tubes are you running and what’s a quick take on comparing to the WA5? Was it worth it for you?


----------



## JLoud

George Chronis said:


> There my next move  I saw one on the classifieds recently (may still be there) with Taks I believe, going forward something like $7k and was very tempted, but not quite there yet, financially. Did you get the maxed out WA33 or the “base”? What tubes are you running and what’s a quick take on comparing to the WA5? Was it worth it for you?


I have the standard edition with the RK50 volume pot. Running EML 2A3, Tak 274B, and 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix gold pin tubes.


----------



## JLoud

I always liked the WA5le. The sound stage and timbre were very good. Layering was also excellent. The WA33 improves on the speed and accuracy. Kind of like a good SS with the advantages of tubes. To me it was worth it. The EE I'm sure is even better, I just couldn't justify the extra cost. The WA33 is also a very good preamp, so that is an extra bonus.


----------



## George Chronis

Excellent setup you have there. Thank you for the info. Very helpful in my quest.


----------



## davehg

Wish the WA33 had speaker outs - my WA5 is really great with efficient speakers.


----------



## George Chronis

Man, I was expecting an upgrade form the Mjolnir 2, but this thing is a beast. The seller had the Sophia Royal Princess 300B and Sophia Royal rectifiers and some Sylvania JAN on there. This has been my dream amp for over a decade. I used to have a WA6 and WA6-SE, but this is a different beast. Unreal. I'm so loving this amp right now.

Was looking at some Psvane ACME 300B and 274Bs along with their UK-6SN7, but I don't think it's necessary. How much better can it get 

Btw, does anyone know if a UK-6SN7 would even fit next to any 300B on the WA5? They seem awfully close.


----------



## moemoney

George Chronis said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just bought a used WA5-LE. I took it out of the box and when I lift the power supply it feels like the whole internal part or some big piece of it is wiggling inside like it is suspended on some kind of spring. Is this by design or is something unscrewed inside? I don't hear anything clanking.
> 
> Thank you.


That doesn’t sound right to me


----------



## George Chronis

moemoney said:


> That doesn’t sound right to me


Sorted it out. It wasn't right. The rear transformers were loose at the bottom. Both nuts. They were wiggling on the long screws from the bottom of the case. I'm a bit concerned about how the heck that happened, since Woo has some split washers in there on all nuts, but whatever. Everything works great as far as I can tell and it's a marvel to listen to. Hopefully it'll last  Package didn't look banged up, but it is a heavy amp. Who knows how they threw it around or if it was like that before it shipped.


----------



## moemoney

Well as 


George Chronis said:


> Sorted it out. It wasn't right. The rear transformers were loose at the bottom. Both nuts. They were wiggling on the long screws from the bottom of the case. I'm a bit concerned about how the heck that happened, since Woo has some split washers in there on all nuts, but whatever. Everything works great as far as I can tell and it's a marvel to listen to. Hopefully it'll last  Package didn't look banged up, but it is a heavy amp. Who knows how they threw it around or if it was like that before it shipped.


Well as long as you figured it out and fixed it, thats what’s important, Im very happy with the one I have and I just finish maxing out the tubes, so nothing left but to relax and enjoy the music.


----------



## George Chronis

moemoney said:


> Well as
> 
> Well as long as you figured it out and fixed it, thats what’s important, Im very happy with the one I have and I just finish maxing out the tubes, so nothing left but to relax and enjoy the music.



Can you define maxing out for me, please? It came with Sophia Royal Princess and Sophia Princess rectifiers and what looks like a Sylvania brown base JAN for drivers. I was looking at Psvane ACME 300B and 247B and probably their UK-6SN7 drivers, if they fit. Can you share what you have on yours?


----------



## moemoney

George Chronis said:


> Can you define maxing out for me, please? It came with Sophia Royal Princess and Sophia Princess rectifiers and what looks like a Sylvania brown base JAN for drivers. I was looking at Psvane ACME 300B and 247B and probably their UK-6SN7 drivers, if they fit. Can you share what you have on yours?


Max out for me is I am not putting anymore money into this system (for now) I did the best I can do based on what I read in theses pages. I believe I have a very good tube amp and all I need to do now is enjoy it. As far as the tubes go I have takatsuki ta-274b, takatsuki ta-300b and a pair of CBS Hytron 5692s the 274s & 5692s have around 100 hours on them, so I will not comment on how they sound yet, but they do sound better than what came with the amp.


----------



## George Chronis

moemoney said:


> Max out for me is I am not putting anymore money into this system (for now) I did the best I can do based on what I read in theses pages. I believe I have a very good tube amp and all I need to do now is enjoy it. As far as the tubes go I have takatsuki ta-274b, takatsuki ta-300b and a pair of CBS Hytron 5692s the 274s & 5692s have around 100 hours on them, so I will not comment on how they sound yet, but they do sound better than what came with the amp.



That is maxing out indeed  Happy listening and thanks for the info.


----------



## George Chronis

Tried to search for this noise adjustment attenuator under the handles of the WA5. I see in the manual that if there is hum on the headphones, you can fix it with this. I have a Stelia, which is fairly low impedance connected to the Low input (this is a Gen 1 WA5-LE). After about 11 o' clock I can hear noise, if no music is playing. I can't play louder than 9 o' clock, so it's not a real issue. I expect tubes to have noise past a certain dB level. However, is there a way to optimize the attenuator setting? Do you plug a headphone in without music playing, adjust the pot to say 12 o' clock or some high number, then adjust the noise attenuator until you hear no noise or what?


----------



## JLoud

Pretty hard to get rid of all noise on a tube amp. Especially with sensitive headphones. If you can’t hear any at normal listening levels without music playing, I would leave it alone. Even SS will have some noise at high volume with sensitive iems.


----------



## JLoud

Another 300B to consider is the EML 300B mesh. I ran those in my WA5le with good results. The Taks are probably better, but the EML’s are about $800 for a pair. So much more affordable. Also the EML 5U4G mesh are very nice upgrade.


----------



## George Chronis

JLoud said:


> Pretty hard to get rid of all noise on a tube amp. Especially with sensitive headphones. If you can’t hear any at normal listening levels without music playing, I would leave it alone. Even SS will have some noise at high volume with sensitive iems.



Agreed. No such aspirations. Just looking to see if there is a process for optimization as far as noise goes and use of these attenuators. I haven't had them on any other amps I've owned, so not sure how everyone uses them. But correct, I have no noise at normal listening levels even with sensitive headphones.


----------



## Preachy1

Just a quick drive-by to give a hefty shout out to Mike L at Woo Audio.  I was having what I thought might've been a major issue with my WA7 set up.  Couldn't get it to power up.  I tried everything I could think of, from swapping out tubes to changing the power cord.

Yeah, I tried everything except switching the power switch on the back of the amp unit on.  I never touch that switch, using only the main switch on the tube PS, but apparently while cleaning around it the other night, I pushed it to the OFF position.  I sent an email to the folks at Woo, and within an hour received a call back from Mike.  He alerted me to the possible issue, and we both had a good laugh over it.

Great products, great customer service - that's a winning combo!!!!!


----------



## Mediahound

Preachy1 said:


> I tried everything except switching the power switch on the back of the amp unit on



Seriously?


----------



## Laines

Hello, 
I now had my wa 22 gen 2 for a while (stock tubes). With the Aeon 2 and Fostex t50 the Amp is dead quiet. I now tried the HD6xx and and Harmonicdyne Zeus and I get a very present hummm, both in LO and HI mode. 

Is this normal?


----------



## Preachy1

Mediahound said:


> Seriously?


Yeah, don't judge me, I might've been drunk.


----------



## George Chronis

About to pull the trigger on either a pair of Psvane ACME 300Bs + ACME 274Bs or a pair of EML Mesh 300Bs + 5U4G Mesh for a WA5. Either combo is about $1300. I can't go to Taks or WEs or anything like that, yet. For drivers I have quite a few pairs and considering to also add the Sophia Blue 6SN7. The amp currently has Sohia RP 300Bs and 274Bs. Anyone have any preference of one combo over the other or any for sale before I pull the trigger on new? I was initially planning on the ACME but read a lot of good things about the EML and swinging that way. Thank you.


----------



## moemoney (Feb 16, 2021)

George Chronis said:


> About to pull the trigger on either a pair of Psvane ACME 300Bs + ACME 274Bs or a pair of EML Mesh 300Bs + 5U4G Mesh for a WA5. Either combo is about $1300. I can't go to Taks or WEs or anything like that, yet. For drivers I have quite a few pairs and considering to also add the Sophia Blue 6SN7. The amp currently has Sohia RP 300Bs and 274Bs. Anyone have any preference of one combo over the other or any for sale before I pull the trigger on new? I was initially planning on the ACME but read a lot of good things about the EML and swinging that way. Thank you.


I did purchase the Psvane HiFi Series UK-6SN7s on Amazon a few months ago, but never used them, I also have the Sophia Blue 6SN7s in for about a month, they sounded ok, but decided to go with a pair of CBS 5692 brown base. Which I like the sound of a lot. Their is a video on Upscale Audio‘s website regarding then.
https://upscaleaudio.com/products/cbs-hytron-5692


----------



## JLoud

I ran EML 300b and 5U4G mesh in my WA5le and really liked the combo.


----------



## Onik (Feb 16, 2021)

I think I have learned a lesson from Woo Audio, the Guy name Mike on Woo audio told me that I'll need a police report for my Refund/Replacement cause Fedex Lost my Parcel LOL but Fedex escalation team told me that I do not need any report because their search for my missing order was negative so the shipper(Woo Audio) needs to deal with them with the claim for my Refund/Replacement, I think Woo Audio is now wasting my time.

I forwarded the email that I received from Fedex team uk but I still didn't receive any response do you guys trust this Company? I heard even their Amp(WA2/WA22) has lot noise issues and they are really bad at customer service.


----------



## JLoud

That sucks. Good luck getting this straightened out. I have had several Woo amps and liked them all. WA6se, WA5le, WA33. No issues with any of them.


----------



## George Chronis

Onik said:


> I think I have learned a lesson from Woo Audio, the Guy name Mike on Woo audio told me that I'll need a police report for my Refund/Replacement cause Fedex Lost my Parcel LOL but Fedex escalation team told me that I do not need any report because their search for my missing order was negative so the shipper(Woo Audio) needs to deal with them with the claim for my Refund/Replacement, I think Woo Audio is now wasting my time.
> 
> I forwarded the email that I received from Fedex team uk but I still didn't receive any response do you guys trust this Company? I heard even their Amp(WA2/WA22) has lot noise issues and they are really bad at customer service.



For what it's worth, I've had 3 amps from Woo so far and I have been satisfied with all of them. I expect noise "issues" from any purely tube amps (not hybrids), so I make peace with those. Not sure exactly how we define a noise issue, but at normal listening levels with tubes that don't have problems, I don't hear noise, if the headphones are not extremely sensitive for the amp (e.g. under 32 Ω). However, if I crank the volume up to past 50% and especially with sensitive headphones, yes, I can hear noise, but I think that's with any tube amp. Price you pay...

I also think they're quite expensive, but you pay a lot for the design, which I'm willing to pay for personally, cause I love how they look and how they're constructed.

As far as support goes, I haven't had the need to use them much, but I had been dealing directly with Jack Woo when I was starting out about 20 years ago or so and he was very responsive. Perhaps business picked up, not sure, haven't used support lately. I also see that Mike is fairly responsive on these forums. Try to message him directly here and you should receive a response shortly. Sometimes, email ends up in spam. I think he's @Hi-Fi Guy.

All that said, what happened to you really sucks and may leave a bitter taste in your experience with Woo. However, they're very trustworthy and someone other than you should eventually pay for something you did not receive. Normally, that would be insured and it should be covered. I am in the shipping business, and we have to file a claim as a shipper when something is lost. I haven't heard of police reports before. Does FedEx claim it was delivered or that it was not delivered? What does your tracking show?


----------



## joseph69 (Feb 18, 2021)

Onik said:


> Do you guys trust this Company? I heard even their Amp(WA2/WA22) has lot noise issues and they are really bad at customer service.


I owned their WA6 for 4+yrs w/o issue, as well as owning their WA33 for +/-1-1/2yrs w/o issue. I regretfully sold my WA33, but 2 months later purchased another one which has shown no issues whatsoever. I think the fact that your package was unfortunately lost is causing you to question the noise and customer service you've read about, which leads me to the question...if you were that concerned about what you read, why did you purchase a Woo amplifier? As mentioned by @George Chronis you are going to have some noise in an all tube amplifier, and the tubes you use play a big role in this. I've dealt with Jack Wu face to face, and Mike (on the phone) and both were very accommodating with my questions and needs. In regards to "still didn't receive any response" remember, it's Chinese New Year and everything worldwide is in disarray due to CV-19. I wish you luck in recovering your unfortunate loss.


----------



## Onik

George Chronis said:


> For what it's worth, I've had 3 amps from Woo so far and I have been satisfied with all of them. I expect noise "issues" from any purely tube amps (not hybrids), so I make peace with those. Not sure exactly how we define a noise issue, but at normal listening levels with tubes that don't have problems, I don't hear noise, if the headphones are not extremely sensitive for the amp (e.g. under 32 Ω). However, if I crank the volume up to past 50% and especially with sensitive headphones, yes, I can hear noise, but I think that's with any tube amp. Price you pay...
> 
> I also think they're quite expensive, but you pay a lot for the design, which I'm willing to pay for personally, cause I love how they look and how they're constructed.
> 
> ...





After calling Fedex Few times, Thats the last response I received from Fedex Escalation Team and I used this email as an evidence for not receiving my order, and I then forwarded the email to Woo Audio after that Woo Audio sent me Refund Confirmation and they told me it'll take few days to receive it on my Original Payment Card, I don't really Blame Woo Audio for messing with my order its Fedex who probably dropped the item somewhere outside.


----------



## George Chronis

Onik said:


> After calling Fedex Few times, Thats the last response I received from Fedex Escalation Team and I used this email as an evidence for not receiving my order, and I then forwarded the email to Woo Audio after that Woo Audio sent me Refund Confirmation and they told me it'll take few days to receive it on my Original Payment Card, I don't really Blame Woo Audio for messing with my order its Fedex who probably dropped the item somewhere outside.


Ok, sounds like it was resolved then. Hope that was not a too sour experience for you to try Woo Audio again. I believe they make wonderful amps.


----------



## JLoud

Sounds like the delivery guy is a headphone fan. Probably enjoying his new amp. 😉


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Onik said:


> I think I have learned a lesson from Woo Audio, the Guy name Mike on Woo audio told me that I'll need a police report for my Refund/Replacement cause Fedex Lost my Parcel LOL but Fedex escalation team told me that I do not need any report because their search for my missing order was negative so the shipper(Woo Audio) needs to deal with them with the claim for my Refund/Replacement, I think Woo Audio is now wasting my time.
> 
> I forwarded the email that I received from Fedex team uk but I still didn't receive any response do you guys trust this Company? I heard even their Amp(WA2/WA22) has lot noise issues and they are really bad at customer service.



We find it "interesting" that you asked for a FULL refund instead of a replacement which we offered to send. 

*We gave you a FULL refund.*


----------



## George Chronis

HiFiGuy528 said:


> We find it "interesting" that you asked for a FULL refund instead of a replacement which we offered to send.
> 
> *We gave you a FULL refund.*


----------



## JLoud

Man the escalated fast. I have a feeling there was more conversation that we aren’t aware of.


----------



## Onik (Feb 19, 2021)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> We find it "interesting" that you asked for a FULL refund instead of a replacement which we offered to send.
> 
> *We gave you a FULL refund.*


I didn't want to take the risk again because this is not the first time FedEx Lost my parcel it happened before, I changed my mind on the replacement because I don't wanna wait again and same thing might repeat, instead I bought another Little Dot Amp which is also smaller in size so I can take it easily with me outside when Im working overseas. Thank you for the Full Refund even though I didn't receive the exact amount I paid to purchase wa2.


----------



## Onik

JLoud said:


> Man the escalated fast. I have a feeling there was more conversation that we aren’t aware of.


There wasn't any more conversation,Woo told me they will have to go through with the Fedex insurance claim if I want replacement/refund, and I went for refund because there isn't any guarantee that fedex/other delivery services will deliver my order to the right place.


----------



## bpcans

When your up at 5:00 in the morning, listening to Mahler’s Symphony No. 5 in C sharp minor Part III. Abteilung, through your Woo WA22 and you start to get a little teary eyed, is it because you wish you had a WA33, or was old Gustav a pretty good composer?


----------



## CAJames

bpcans said:


> When your up at 5:00 in the morning, listening to Mahler’s Symphony No. 5 in C sharp minor Part III. Abteilung, through your Woo WA22 and you start to get a little teary eyed, is it because you wish you had a WA33, or was old Gustav a pretty good composer?



I have felt that feeling!


----------



## VandyMan (Feb 20, 2021)

Onik said:


> I think I have learned a lesson from Woo Audio, the Guy name Mike on Woo audio told me that I'll need a police report for my Refund/Replacement cause Fedex Lost my Parcel LOL but Fedex escalation team told me that I do not need any report because their search for my missing order was negative so the shipper(Woo Audio) needs to deal with them with the claim for my Refund/Replacement, I think Woo Audio is now wasting my time.



I'm glad to read that your issues seems to be resolved. I've never had any issues with Woo service, except that they charge a lot. Both my WA 6-SE and my WA 5-LE are great amps that got me off the upgrade merry go round. I've met Mike quite a few times over they years, at Can Jams and audio shows. I've always found him to be very friendly and happy to answer questions.


----------



## bpcans (Feb 20, 2021)

VandyMan said:


> I'm glad to read that your issues seems to be resolved. I've never had any issues with Woo service, except that they charge a lot. Both my WA 6-SE and my WA 5-LE are great amps that got me off the upgrade merry go round. I've met Mike quite a few times over they years, at Can Jams and audio shows. I've always found him to be very friendly and happy to answer questions.


VandyMan, I too think that Mike Liang is a super nice guy, honest, and he really knows his products and what they can and can’t do. Even though my WA22 just adds that dollop of sweetness to my hp listening chain that I really like, I sometimes imagine how much more enjoyment I’d get from a WA33.


----------



## VandyMan

bpcans said:


> Even though my WA22 just adds that dollop of sweetness to my hp listening chain that I really like, I sometimes imagine how much more enjoyment I’d get from a WA33.



I really like the sound of SET amps, so for me it does not get any better than the WA-5 LE with excellent 300B tubes for driving my dynamic/planar headphones. I've heard the WA-33 and it is a great amp, but I prefer the WA-5, so I get to save $$$.


----------



## JLoud

My last amp was the WA5le, currently have the WA33. At times I miss the sweetness of the 300b in the WA5le. However some have run EML version of the 300b (2.5 I believe)in their WA33. I might try this to see if it brings back the feeling of the WA5, however the other things the WA33 does I wouldn't want to give up.


----------



## barrypew

I don't own any, but I want the WA7 Fireflies so bad. I probably just want it because it's so damn pretty! Not sure I could even hear the difference, but SO PRETTY!


----------



## JLoud

I know most will say appearance doesn't matter, only the sound. I would say that is obviously the most important, but looks do matter. Who doesn't like to show off their audio jewelry.


----------



## George Chronis

JLoud said:


> I know most will say appearance doesn't matter, only the sound. I would say that is obviously the most important, but looks do matter. Who doesn't like to show off their audio jewelry.


...or watch it perform as you listen... totally agree!


----------



## ucmgr

I can't speaker everyone else, but I received my new WA-22 Gen2 last Saturday and I haven't stopped smiling since. This is the third Woo Audio amp that I've owned, having previously owned a Wa-22 gen1 and a WA-6SE that I just sold to move back up to a WA-22. All my dealings with Woo Audio have been through Mike and I couldn't be happier or more satisfied. Mike was always been very responsive and helpful in my purchases. While the Woo lineup of amps might be everyone's cup of tea so to speak, I can't think of another line of headphone amplifiers that are as well made, relatively trouble-free, and sound as good as theirs do. My new Wa-22 is being broken in and will be for a little while. It sounds great with the stock tubes it came with and I'm sure I'll be in the market for better tubes as it settles in. You know one of the best things about owning any Woo amp is that it's made here by a company that is very proud of the products that they make and sell and are there for their owners over the long haul. Thank you Mike, thank you Jack, and thanks to the staff at Woo Audio that make it all happen.  
Respectfully,
Skip


----------



## matthewh133 (Feb 25, 2021)

I've just purchased a HD650. I'm a big metal/heavy music fan, as well as newer folk/acoustic/indie guys like Iron and Wine, Ben Howard, etc. Is the WA6 going to be up my alley? Don't want to drop huge coin, but a used WA6 seems like a good value/performance level for these cans. Do they pair well? Any reason to look at the WA7 instead?


----------



## ucmgr

I loved my WA-6SE and I used it with HD800's and HD650's. I think the WA-6SE is the sweet spot in the Woo line. The Wa-6 not quite as good but still has a lot of the "sound character" of their bigger brother. There's soooo much you can do to alter its' sound by tube rolling and the nice thing is that the tubes aren't really all that expensive. Sure, a rectifier like a Sophia Electric is expensive but not nearly as expensive as other rectifiers. They also last a long long time unless you leave your amp on 24 hours a day. Theres so much information on tube rolling for many different amps but those for Woo Audio amps are plentiful regardless of which amp you are considering. Head-Fi ers are eager to share their experience, good and bad, so one can benefit for all the members who are kind enough to share the wealth of experience of owning a particular amp or pair of headphones. If you get to the point where you want to move up the Woo line, their amps are very easy to sell. Just look how few used ones of any model are for sale right now.


----------



## JLoud

I went from WA6se to WA5le to WA33. Each amp sold in less than 1 day here on Head-fi. They hold their value very well. I love me some Woo!


----------



## vlach

matthewh133 said:


> I've just purchased a HD650. I'm a big metal/heavy music fan, as well as newer folk/acoustic/indie guys like Iron and Wine, Ben Howard, etc. Is the WA6 going to be up my alley? Don't want to drop huge coin, but a used WA6 seems like a good value/performance level for these cans. Do they pair well? Any reason to look at the WA7 instead?


It largely depends on the DAC feeding it.


----------



## matthewh133

vlach said:


> It largely depends on the DAC feeding it.


I'm currently using an El Dac II, is that a good or bad thing?


----------



## vlach (Feb 27, 2021)

matthewh133 said:


> I'm currently using an El Dac II, is that a good or bad thing?



I haven't heard this particular DAC but i read good things about JDS products in general, namely that they represent good value.
I should re-phrase my comment by saying the WA6 will scale according to the quality of the DAC signal feeding it.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Has anybody listened to the 3ES?  There’s like nothing written about this amp anywhere. I have the WA33 EE JPS, and the 3ES looks to be a similar design, so it has me curious. Anybody have any impressions?


----------



## bpcans

Ciggavelli said:


> Has anybody listened to the 3ES?  There’s like nothing written about this amp anywhere. I have the WA33 EE JPS, and the 3ES looks to be a similar design, so it has me curious. Anybody have any impressions?


Ciggavelli, my question is why would anybody be looking at the WES if they already have the WA33? The WA33 can drive anything short of a fully loaded garbage truck. I have a friend who uses his 33 to drive his Audeze LCD-4’s, and he’s going to use it with his incoming ABYSS 1266 Phi TC’s.


----------



## Ciggavelli

bpcans said:


> Ciggavelli, my question is why would anybody be looking at the WES if they already have the WA33? The WA33 can drive anything short of a fully loaded garbage truck. I have a friend who uses his 33 to drive his Audeze LCD-4’s, and he’s going to use it with his incoming ABYSS 1266 Phi TC’s.


I’m guessing you mean 3ES and not WES?  If that’s the case, the 3ES is for electrostatic headphones, and the WA33 is for normal headphones. I love my WA33...absolutely love it. Because of that I wanted to learn more about the 3ES. I haven’t really heard any electrostatic headphones other than the Koss 95x ones. I kinda just want to learn more about the 3ES. If the 3ES is basically a WA33 for electrostatic headphones I’d be pretty interested. I could then use Stax headphones or the Hifiman ones. It just opens up some options


----------



## bpcans

Ciggavelli said:


> I’m guessing you mean 3ES and not WES?  If that’s the case, the 3ES is for electrostatic headphones, and the WA33 is for normal headphones. I love my WA33...absolutely love it. Because of that I wanted to learn more about the 3ES. I haven’t really heard any electrostatic headphones other than the Koss 95x ones. I kinda just want to learn more about the 3ES. If the 3ES is basically a WA33 for electrostatic headphones I’d be pretty interested. I could then use Stax headphones or the Hifiman ones. It just opens up some options


Ciggavelli, I’m sorry 😣 if I maybe got the two amps, the WES and the 3ES, confused. I’m just a poor bum who only has a lowly WA22. Honestly, I’d be happy to able to need either one of those stellar amps for electrostatic hp’s.


----------



## thecrow

ucmgr said:


> I loved my WA-6SE and I used it with HD800's and HD650's. I think the WA-6SE is the sweet spot in the Woo line. The Wa-6 not quite as good but still has a lot of the "sound character" of their bigger brother. There's soooo much you can do to alter its' sound by tube rolling and the nice thing is that the tubes aren't really all that expensive. Sure, a rectifier like a Sophia Electric is expensive but not nearly as expensive as other rectifiers. They also last a long long time unless you leave your amp on 24 hours a day. Theres so much information on tube rolling for many different amps but those for Woo Audio amps are plentiful regardless of which amp you are considering. Head-Fi ers are eager to share their experience, good and bad, so one can benefit for all the members who are kind enough to share the wealth of experience of owning a particular amp or pair of headphones. If you get to the point where you want to move up the Woo line, their amps are very easy to sell. Just look how few used ones of any model are for sale right now.


My experience has me defining the wa22 as the sweet spot - but that’s me


----------



## bpcans

thecrow said:


> My experience has me defining the wa22 as the sweet spot - but that’s me


thecrow, ding 🛎 ding 🛎 ding 🛎 ding 🛎 ding 🛎. Yes you are correct sir, the WA22 is without a doubt the sweetest spot in the entire Woo lineup! 😃 Of course that’s my totally unbiased opinion.


----------



## thecrow

bpcans said:


> thecrow, ding 🛎 ding 🛎 ding 🛎 ding 🛎 ding 🛎. Yes you are correct sir, the WA22 is without a doubt the sweetest spot in the entire Woo lineup! 😃 Of course that’s my totally unbiased opinion.


Having said that my wa2 is superb for my hd800 specifically and surpasses the wa22 when looking at that one specific headphone. 
for me the wa2 and hd800 combo is one single unit - if one goes, they both go. No if’s and no buts


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> Has anybody listened to the 3ES?  There’s like nothing written about this amp anywhere. I have the WA33 EE JPS, and the 3ES looks to be a similar design, so it has me curious. Anybody have any impressions?


I listened to the 3ES at CJNYC '19 paired with the Stax 009 and was very impressed. Remember, this was under meet conditions so it was a brief listen with some background noise. With that being said, IMO if I can hear and enjoy something under meet conditions and it leaves me with a very good impression, too me, this is a big positive even thought my listening was brief.  I find it very hard to be impressed at these big meet and I'm mostly disappointed with a big majority of the headphones & gear I hear (even gear I own at the time) so again, this is a big positive too me. I've also owned the 009 & 007Mk2/BHSE combo for +/-2yrs (sold it for the WA33/Utopia combo) and while I was waiting for my BHSE to arrive (1yr) I also owned both, the Mjolnir KGSShv & KGST.


----------



## JLoud

Right now I am thrilled to have both the WA33 and the BHSE. Both are beautiful to look at and wonderful to listen to. Spent a few hours this past Friday listening to the BHSE and 009, very nice combo. I would guess from my experience with the WA33 and previous Woo amps, that the 3ES would be excellent as well.


----------



## ucmgr

Wow, that's quite a pair of excellent headphone amps. I've had the pleasure of hearing the WA-33 and it was spectacular. I understand the the BHSE is equally as good. There's something that's very special about glowing tubes late at night in a dimly lit room that's hard to explain to someone else who hasn't experienced it!


----------



## JLoud

That's how I like to listen at night, lights off and just the glow of the tubes.  I know science may disagree, but I could swear the glowing tubes make the music sound better.


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> Right now I am thrilled to have both the WA33 and the BHSE. Both are beautiful to look at and wonderful to listen to. Spent a few hours this past Friday listening to the BHSE and 009, very nice combo. I would guess from my experience with the WA33 and previous Woo amps, that the 3ES would be excellent as well.


What are your thoughts on the 009s vs the Voce?


----------



## JLoud

The 009 seemed more detailed and perhaps a tad faster. However it seemed very clinical. Also without EQ it was lite in the bass for my taste. It did respond very well to EQ however, and you could get pretty decent sub bass out of it. I felt the Voce was more balanced and full bodied. Also much more forgiving in the treble. Still detailed but not harsh at all.  I thought the 009 was technically impressive, but I enjoy the Voce more. Just more musical.


----------



## bpiotrow13

JLoud said:


> I went from WA6se to WA5le to WA33. Each amp sold in less than 1 day here on Head-fi. They hold their value very well. I love me some Woo!


Wow, can You share a few words on differences? How different they are in terms of SQ?


----------



## thebigcanman

Is anybody using an Elrog 274B in their amplifier that could comment on the performance?


----------



## JLoud (Mar 4, 2021)

bpiotrow13 said:


> Wow, can You share a few words on differences? How different they are in terms of SQ?


To boil it down to the basic differences: WA6se is the sweet spot for cost/performance in my opinion. Plenty of power(it drove my LCD4 easily) and great sound stage. Really nice mids and decent extension in the treble and good bass punch.
WA5le: More control of the drivers, faster and more detailed. Sound stage opens up more and timbre is very accurate. More power than you will ever need. Drove Hifiman HE6se, LCD4, and Abyss TC with plenty of headroom.
WA33: Iron grip on drivers, speed and accuracy to rival very good SS amps. Huge soundstage. Extension in the treble goes on for days. Bass slam is visceral and deep. Still retains the sweetness of tube mids. (of course different tubes play a part as well.)
I like EML tubes, price to performance is very good. The Tak rectifiers are also very nice but expensive.


----------



## bpiotrow13

JLoud said:


> To boil it down to the basic differences: WA6se is the sweet spot for cost/performance in my opinion. Plenty of power(it drove my LCD4 easily) and great sound stage. Really nice mids and decent extension in the treble and good bass punch.
> WA5le: More control of the drivers, faster and more detailed. Sound stage opens up more and timbre is very accurate. More power than you will ever need. Drove Hifiman HE6se, LCD4, and Abyss TC with plenty of headroom.
> WA33: Iron grip on drivers, speed and accuracy to rival very good SS amps. Huge soundstage. Extension in the treble goes on for days. Bass slam is visceral and deep. Still retains the sweetness of tube mids. (of course different tubes play a part as well.)
> I like EML tubes, price to performance is very good. The Tak rectifiers are also very nice but expensive.



Thanks. It seems that the difference between we6se i used to have and Ayon ha3 i have currently is just like between wa6se and wa5. My Meze Empyrean on Ayon are faster, clearer, soundstage is bigger and timbre is accurate. I guess my tubes are EML (ayon branded but produced by EML). I'd love to listen to Meze with WA5 if I have an opportunity..


----------



## Bonddam

Picked up KR Audio 2A3 for my Elite. I'm waiting for my order of 300b 2.5 mesh. The KR sound really good but small compared to an EML tube. Here's pic of the Elite.


----------



## JLoud

That is probably my favorite characteristic of the EML tubes, their large sound stage.


----------



## Bonddam

I like the acme more then the KR tubes. Lucky me I'm attracted to cheaper tubes. All I can realize KR needs lots of burn in so hopefully they will get good. Right now they sound boring over all. I'm going to switch back and see if they improve.


----------



## teb1013

barrypew said:


> I don't own any, but I want the WA7 Fireflies so bad. I probably just want it because it's so damn pretty! Not sure I could even hear the difference, but SO PRETTY!


I have been using the WA-7 for 2 years now. Beautiful and sounds great for me, although I moved from the onboard DAC in part because my iphone or iPads weren’t powerful enough to drive it and I wasn’t satisfied with results from a powered hub. I use the Fireflies it to drive Sennheiser HD600, 6xx and, most recently 800S and all sound great. It looks fine too. I gather using the tube power supply is an improvement, but I currently only have the SS power supply


----------



## arftech

I‘m an official member of the WA22 family.  Placed my order on Friday afternoon with Audio Advisor and FedEx delivered today on a Sunday!  My Auteurs seems to have better synergy with the WA22 and I suppose the amp will get even better.  Something was definitely missing from the MJ2 that I had as to which was sold to a friend.


----------



## ucmgr

Congats arftech. I'm into about 30 hours on my new Wa-22 and it gets a little better each hour. Mike at Woo Audio said that it could take as much as 150 hours to fully break in.  I had a Wa6-SE previously and enjoyed that as well. I want to break it in a little more before I get too ambitious tube rolling...but I got the itch! Gets a bit more expensive because the better tube pairs can get very costly. Not sure what will give me more bang for the buck...rectifiers, drivers or power tubes. Any other WA-22 owner that than chime on or recommend from experience?


----------



## pippen99

You might get a better response and more information in this thread.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/


----------



## InstantSilence

What is the most affordable (used) woo audio  tube amp, capable or driving lcd4z (low impedence planar, I think 17ohm)
Trying to stay away from hybrid. Trying to get started with tubes.


----------



## bpiotrow13

InstantSilence said:


> What is the most affordable (used) woo audio  tube amp, capable or driving lcd4z (low impedence planar, I think 17ohm)
> Trying to stay away from hybrid. Trying to get started with tubes.


Woo wa6/wa6se. With 17 oms it is difficult to find suitable full tube amp as You generally need to look for non - OTL.


----------



## InstantSilence

bpiotrow13 said:


> Woo wa6/wa6se. With 17 oms it is difficult to find suitable full tube amp as You generally need to look for non - OTL.


Which of those models is more *tube* and a better performer? Also gen1 or gen 2 more favorable?

Looking for the smoothest laid back presentation


----------



## bpiotrow13

ucmgr said:


> Not sure what will give me more bang for the buck...rectifiers, drivers or power tubes. Any other WA-22 owner that than chime on or recommend from experience?


At the time i owned wa22 the best change in sound gave me changing stock rectifier into Sophia Princess. So rectifier would be first to change IMO. Tubes for wa22 can be costy so really worth going through wa22 thread as suggested above.


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Mar 8, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Which of those models is more *tube* and a better performer? Also gen1 or gen 2 more favorable?
> 
> Looking for the smoothest laid back presentation


Never had wa6, i owned wa6se, which has much more power. Apart from that the difference is not fundamental i guess. 

The 2nd version of wa6/wa6se seems not to be real upgrade. 1st version gives a lot more opportunities for tube rolling (tubes are more accessible and cheaper). 

My wa6se with Meze Empyrean gave me the smooth presentation You described. I have not tried it with Audeze. Wa6 is not considered very tubey sounding but still smooth.


----------



## thecrow

InstantSilence said:


> Which of those models is more *tube* and a better performer? Also gen1 or gen 2 more favorable?
> 
> Looking for the smoothest laid back presentation


This is an old chart for looking over 
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1059475471/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf

for a versatile amp that could serve you well for a long time, have a look at the wa22 if that fits your budget


----------



## InstantSilence

thecrow said:


> This is an old chart for looking over
> https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1059475471/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
> 
> for a versatile amp that could serve you well for a long time, have a look at the wa22 if that fits your budget


I appreciate you 
Need something on the cheaper side at first.. To hear what tube is all about first.


----------



## JLoud

I had a WA6se first gen. I used with LCD4 and Utopia. I thought it was very good. Plenty of power and good sound stage. It was the amp that sold me on tubes. The WA6se besides having more power is supposed to have lower noise floor due to separate power supply. I bought mine for about $800 used.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

WA6 is a great starter amp. It was my first Woo Audio product prior to joining the company over 5 years ago. I still have the amp and it still sounds great by today's standards.


----------



## joseph69

I too started with the WA6 and had it for 5+yrs and enjoyed it very much.


----------



## bpiotrow13

thecrow said:


> or a versatile amp that could serve you well for a long time, have a look at the wa22 if that fits your budget


WA22 is a nice amp provided You have a balanced source and You upgrade tubes (which can be costy..).


----------



## thecrow

bpiotrow13 said:


> WA22 is a nice amp provided You have a balanced source and You upgrade tubes (which can be costy..).


Absolutely. Part of “if it fits your budget“ concerns the tubes.
For those of us that are likely to keep upgrading over a few years i feel, if one is ready and (again) within one’s budget, to go to the wa22 rather than (for eg) wa6 to wa6se to wa22. After the wa22 one hits another price level with woo amps. 

but if one is just sussing it out, why not start with a wa6?

i have the wa2 purely for my hd800. I would have spent more on tubes than the amp - probably just under twice the cost of the amp on tubes but my tube buying has been conpleted.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Wa6/WA6SE seems to be a nice intro. Not really that expensive with tube rolling.

I can imagine WA2 is gread with HD800, pure tube sound (not the best fit for 17 oms impedance though)


----------



## thecrow

bpiotrow13 said:


> Wa6/WA6SE seems to be a nice intro. Not really that expensive with tube rolling.
> 
> I can imagine WA2 is gread with HD800, pure tube sound (not the best fit for 17 oms impedance though)


100%


----------



## arftech

Good Mornin.  Anybody connect their Woo amp to a dedicated preamp?  If so what are the advantages or disadvantage?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

arftech said:


> Good Mornin.  Anybody connect their Woo amp to a dedicated preamp?  If so what are the advantages or disadvantage?



A direct connection from the source yields the best sound quality. But if you need multiple inputs, going through a preamp as a switch box via the FIXED LINE OUT or TAPE OUT will do the trick for convenience.


----------



## arftech

I don't think I was clear on what I was trying to say.  MY configuration will be Directstream analog balanced connection > Classe CP-800.  Out of the CP-800 I will run an analog out to the the WA5 for headphone listening and run a balanced connection to the Classe CA-2100 amp if I want to use my towers.  Of course when my towers are being used the WA5 LE will be powered off.


----------



## CAJames (Mar 10, 2021)

Yes, I think I/we understand what you are saying. What the previous poster was saying is if you connect your WA5 to the preamp you'll get the best results if you can connect to a fixed output, not the same output kind of output you use to connect the power amp (that is volume controlled). I don't know the CP-800, but some preamps, like my AR preamp, has a REC OUT or a TAPE OUT or a FIXED OUTPUT  that simply switches the input source and don't apply the volume and/or tone controls. If your preamp has an output like that you will get the best results using that for the WA5. The idea is to avoid having the signal go through both the volume control circuits in the CP-800 and WA5.


----------



## arftech

Got it and thanks.  When it comes to headphone listening I’ll just take the CP-800 out of the chain and use the SE out from the Directstream.  The DAC also has balanced analog outs and I’ll just use those to go balanced out to the CP-800.


----------



## CAJames

Sounds good, before I got my WA22 I used the REC OUT of my AR preamp for my headphone amp. It was fine, but I replaced both of them with the WA22 and both my headphones and my "speaker stereo" sound better than ever. So that is something to think about .


----------



## Bonddam

I had the joy of thinking my WA33 Elite took a dump.


----------



## arftech

“The joy”?


----------



## Bonddam

How I think my high end dac caused me too swap 18 tubes swap DAC's then I just powered everything done for 15 minutes and went back to normal. So in process the found out the stock tubes sound really good. Well put my upgrade tubes back and still good. Now I'm listing to headtrip and Cipher dac. Hopefully it was a fluke. I was getting distortion and DC pops and hum in left channel. Its great to have warranty but it sucks to use it.


----------



## arftech

I powered up my new WA5 LE this evening for the first time and noticed the right channel on it was distorting.  The thing I didn’t do was allow a proper warm up of at least 10 minutes or so as I just started playing some tunes.  The distortion continued for about 30 additional minutes but went away and it seems to be playing normally now without any further issues.  Question 1.  Will a warmup of this nature be required every time?  Question 2.  Can this be normal with some new units?  Question 3.  What could have caused the distortion?  Tubes breaking in?

This is my first time with a tube amp of this quality and there are things I’m probably ignorant about when using it.


----------



## CAJames

Yes, with a brand new tube amp there are an almost limitless number of unpleasant possibilities while the tubes break in. My advice is to play music for at least 20 hours (others might advise even longer), preferably in cycles of several hours on and several hours off, before you do any critical listening.


----------



## JLoud

I believe Woo says no more than 4 hours at a time. Or something like that. More than likely tube breaking in. But until it stabilizes I wouldn't leave it unattended, just in case a tube goes bad. You don't want to leave it on with a bad tube. And make sure to have headphones plugged in of course.


----------



## Lucky87 (Mar 15, 2021)

Finally got my Takatuski 274B and I was supposed to get the KR Audio HP Tubes on Friday but got pushed to this Monday

Question does anyone know the tube break in hours?

Takatuski 274B =

KR Audio HP Tubes =

Thanks


----------



## moemoney

Lucky87 said:


> Finally got my Takatuski 274B and I was supposed to get the KR Audio HP Tubes on Friday but got pushed to this Monday
> 
> Question does anyone know the tube break in hours?
> 
> ...


I don’t know for sure but I stop counting after around 150hrs. And now I am enjoying music more because I’m just listing, and not counting.


----------



## arftech

I will admit that I’m a novice when it comes to tube amps.  It is what it is.  

However, after i power down my amp I hear a faint tinging sound for a few minutes.  Is this normal?


----------



## JLoud

Yes it’s normal. Just the tubes cooling off. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## skhan007

I read in a couple of places that the Woo WA3 is a good match for ZMF headphones (300 Ohms). Since that model is discontinued, what model is a good match? Is the WA6 the replacement?


----------



## Odin412

skhan007 said:


> I read in a couple of places that the Woo WA3 is a good match for ZMF headphones (300 Ohms). Since that model is discontinued, what model is a good match? Is the WA6 the replacement?



Yes, sadly the WA3 has been discontinued. The WA6 is probably the closest replacement in the Woo Audio product range, but there are other brands of OTL tube amps that I've read work well with ZMF headphones. I only have experience with the WA3 myself.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Odin412 said:


> Yes, sadly the WA3 has been discontinued. The WA6 is probably the closest replacement in the Woo Audio product range, but there are other brands of OTL tube amps that I've read work well with ZMF headphones. I only have experience with the WA3 myself.


The WA2 is the closest replacement.  They're both OTLs.  I can guarantee that the WA2 sounds superb with the ZMFs.  I have both.


----------



## Contrails

Anyone planning on selling their WA6SE? Let me know please. Cheers.


----------



## mariopoli (Mar 19, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## arftech

I’ve been enjoying my new amp but why isn’t there a better glow with my tubes because the tubes seems faint.  They are stock tubes that came with the amplifier.


----------



## ucmgr

I don't know exactly what types tubes a Wa-5LE can accommodate but a Sophia Electric Princess Mesh Plate sure looked nice glowing brightly on my previous Wa-6SE and now my WA-22!


----------



## Bonddam

I can 2nd that the WA2 is surperb with Aeolus. I'm running rca 6as7, jj e88 the rectifiers don't know the brand but they are ez81. The Aeolus sound ridiculously good. I am using a Wells Audio Cipher Tube dac, that adds a big 3d sound and cost a lot more then the amp is worth. The Dac is technically built for 2 channel setups so it's not desk friendly.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

WA2 is essentially TWO WA3 in one chassis. It's a great all-tube amplifier for the money. Price is low by today's standards for a point to point wiring amplifier.


----------



## Bonddam

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA2 is essentially TWO WA3 in one chassis. It's a great all-tube amplifier for the money. Price is low by today's standards for a point to point wiring amplifier.


The revision WA2 is better then pre amp WA2. Mike told me they improved the circuit by removing the pre amp.


----------



## Stereolab42

Oh no, what did I do?

This one will be a little custom.

6SN7s instead of 13EM7s, like the old-school 234's. This gives up a bit of speaker output, but I only do headphones for now and I want to take advantage of my big 6SN7/6F8G collection.
XLR inputs will be passthrough so I can use an external pre-amp. This will probably be my Benchmark HPA4, which has the guts of the LA4. I didn't know it when I bought it, but apparently it is now considered by many to be the best preamp in the world (!).
RCAs will continue to use the 234's volume controls, except now Woo is putting in RK50 pots (like they do in the WA33 Elite) instead of their custom stepped attenuators. At first I was skeptical of this idea since I figured channel-matching would be a bear; after more thought I realized I've hated every stepped atten I'd used in the past for various reasons, and Woo strongly thinks this setup is a better experience. So I'll see how it goes.
My 1st-gen WA5 is still doing spectacular after six years. Its reliability strongly influenced my decision to continue with Woo. I just wanted to take the next, and last, step up. Another WA234 owner repeated privately to me all of the positive things he's said publicly about it, so I have my fingers crossed.


----------



## Lucky87 (Apr 4, 2021)

Almost there with the new KR HP’s getting burned in... I can tell these tubes will be exceptional when they prime.. Also demoing a pair of JPS power cables along with a XLR. So far very happy with these cables and anyone with a tad of glare or brightness try them. I’m trying them from TheCableCompany 3 x cables for $100+ shipping and if you decide to buy the price goes towards the cable or cables.


----------



## Kiats

I am quite chuffed I found this thread. I did a quick search: most of the recommendations for the Woo Audio WA2 seem to centre around the T1 and the HD800. Anyone tried them with the newer headphones like the Utopia, D8000, HE1000v2?  A few years back, when I needed space for my 2 electrostatic amps, I had mothballed the WA2 and just remembered how it was so fluid and gorgeous. Hence, thinking of plugging them up now that I have a DI box and so am now able to have more amps fed from my desktop DAC or line out from DAPs. Thanks in advance for your kind suggestions.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Apr 6, 2021)

You know what the best thing about owning a UE/USAF 596 rectifier tube is? Besides the awesome sound? You're now all set to make in-flight repairs to the radar systems on nuclear bombers:

"In-flight Maintenance: Bombing Navigational Systems, MA-7A, MB-1A.
By United States. Department of the Air Force · 1956"

https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/3Orvwd215gAC?hl=en&gbpv=0





I'm guessing you don't need the Woo adapter for this.


----------



## Kiats

Fired up the WA2 last night and been listening to music via TH900 and now the Focal Utopia. Almost forgotten how good the WA2 sounds.


----------



## ltq3

May I know if the following preloved are worth buying @ $1700?

1. WA22 first gen, with stock tubes and the following upgrades:
    a. Westinghouse 7236 NOS 1963, 
    b. GE 6SN7GT NOS x2,
    c. Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier
2. Senn HD800


----------



## Bonddam (Apr 6, 2021)

ltq3 said:


> May I know if the following preloved are worth buying @ $1700?
> 
> 1. WA22 first gen, with stock tubes and the following upgrades:
> a. Westinghouse 7236 NOS 1963,
> ...


All that for 1700? If so you would have bleach on the brain if you didn't. It's good to see if you end up liking the woo house sound and if upgrading to H800s is worth it.


----------



## ltq3

Bonddam said:


> All that for 1700? If so you would have bleach on the brain if you didn't.


Yes 1700 after having my saliva dried up negotiating with the owner. Will go and test it out this weekend at his place.

Thanks!


----------



## Bonddam

And you get to test it win win. Plus tubes are plentiful for that amp. The Sophia is a good starting point for rectifier. You can go sane or crazy on tube rolling. The new version they upgraded the circuits for better sound. I bought a first gen WA2 and pretty happy with it. Sucks I can only use high impedance headphones but it got me to see Woo makes good otl amps. WA22 fully balanced can power all easy to drive headphones. I'd bring your DAC with you to test.


----------



## ltq3

Bonddam said:


> And you get to test it win win. Plus tubes are plentiful for that amp. The Sophia is a good starting point for rectifier. You can go sane or crazy on tube rolling. The new version they upgraded the circuits for better sound. I bought a first gen WA2 and pretty happy with it. Sucks I can only use high impedance headphones but it got me to see Woo makes good otl amps. WA22 fully balanced can power all easy to drive headphones. I'd bring your DAC with you to test.


Is the difference in sound quality between the 2nd and 1st gen significant?


----------



## Bonddam

Never heard them. I've only heard WA33 standard WA33 Elite and WA2 with pre amp. Brand new amp is $2500 and you can get a lot for $1700. When you price out brand new for everything you're at $3900 just for the amp and headphone. The Sophie cost more then the stock, don't remember if it was $200 or more. If your other headphones are easy to drive then it's a good starting for high fi gear. I have many headphones ,amps and tubes. You can't get a gen 2 for that price. The guy who sold me the WA2 got rid of it just because he would be using the WA22 now that he got lower impedance cans. I have an amp for every flavor. OTL, SET, and Hybrid. So my joy is swapping out tubes and seeing what they do to my headphones. Unless you want to fork over $2500 for new WA22 gen 2 I'd go with the gen 1 used. Buying used is fun. You want to build up to buying new. I'm not sure how new you are to this but I've been into audio for from car to headphones for 24 years.  I'd never buy my summit gear I have now used I'd want full protection of warranty. Anything above $3k I buy new.


----------



## ucmgr

Would definitely think that it's worth buying. Am I to understand that for $1700 you would be receiving the WA-22 gen1 with stock tubes plus the upgraded rectifier, power tubes and driver tubes? Depending on how much life is left in the tubes, the NOS drivers, NOS power tubes, and the Sophia Princess 274B are worth a few hundred dollars by themselves, It would save you from having to buy upgraded tubes immediately or in the near future and you would end up with a very nice amp to enjoy from the get go.


----------



## ltq3 (Apr 6, 2021)

ucmgr said:


> Would definitely think that it's worth buying. Am I to understand that for $1700 you would be receiving the WA-22 gen1 with stock tubes plus the upgraded rectifier, power tubes and driver tubes? Depending on how much life is left in the tubes, the NOS drivers, NOS power tubes, and the Sophia Princess 274B are worth a few hundred dollars by themselves, It would save you from having to buy upgraded tubes immediately or in the near future and you would end up with a very nice amp to enjoy from the get go.


yes, that's exactly what the owner is offering but I have no idea how much life is left in the tubes...the owner said it was bought like 3 years ago and had been using it occasionally only.


----------



## JLoud

Sounds like they should have plenty of life left in them. Sounds like a pretty decent deal if everything is as advertised.


----------



## thecrow

Kiats said:


> I am quite chuffed I found this thread. I did a quick search: most of the recommendations for the Woo Audio WA2 seem to centre around the T1 and the HD800. Anyone tried them with the newer headphones like the Utopia, D8000, HE1000v2?  A few years back, when I needed space for my 2 electrostatic amps, I had mothballed the WA2 and just remembered how it was so fluid and gorgeous. Hence, thinking of plugging them up now that I have a DI box and so am now able to have more amps fed from my desktop DAC or line out from DAPs. Thanks in advance for your kind suggestions.


from owning them, with the wa2:

hd800 is superb

zmf auteur is great

hekse gets a nice touch of tube softness. Not (probably ideal) but good. I leant towards non warm tubes for this (eg telefunken/siemens german v holland tubes)

utopia gets a little more bottom end. Not quite bloaty but though it’s ok with the wa2 it’s not a perfect match - ie ok for a different flavour but utopia is best served with a good ss amp

lcd2 like the utopia

empyrean and elear were both bloated down low


the wa2/hd800 or auteurs the sound is really silky and smooth. Very impressive.
the hd800 are SO much better suited here than ss amps imho (even with ss amps that i have had like taurus, v280 and niimbus us4)

but the wa22 gives you more versatility re headphone choices.

as what put to me, somewhat directly but correctly (imho) some years ago:
1) the hd800 needs tubes; and
2) go the wa2 if you want an amp for the hd800 pr the wa22 if you want other headphones too

i have ended up in my journey (thus far) with wa2 for hd800 and niimbus for everything else (have sold auteur)

my 2c (and a few $$ spent along the way)


----------



## Onik

Anyone from uk selling WA2/WA22(Pre Amp edition) Please PM me with the price.

Thanks.


----------



## vlach

thecrow said:


> from owning them, with the wa2:
> 
> hd800 is superb
> 
> ...


The T1 deserves mention as well, it is 'glorious' with the WA2.


----------



## thecrow (Apr 10, 2021)

vlach said:


> The T1 deserves mention as well, it is 'glorious' with the WA2.


----------



## jonathan c

Does anyone have experience with and comments on Woo Audio WA2 compared to Woo Audio WA3 (both are OTL)? I have the WA3 and am contemplating the WA2. [The WA3 is used with Auteur, DT-1770, and HD-600 (mod).]


----------



## Odin412

jonathan c said:


> Does anyone have experience with and comments on Woo Audio WA2 compared to Woo Audio WA3 (both are OTL)? I have the WA3 and am contemplating the WA2. [The WA3 is used with Auteur, DT-1770, and HD-600 (mod).]



I am a WA3 owner too and I've been curious about the WA2 as well. Hopefully others can share their experiences with both products.


----------



## jonathan c

Odin412 said:


> I am a WA3 owner too and I've been curious about the WA2 as well. Hopefully others can share their experiences with both products.


One of the things that piques my curiosity with the WA2 is the use of rectifier tubes (2). How does this affect sound quality? Is the WA2 "two WA3s on one chassis" or something more?


----------



## Odin412

jonathan c said:


> One of the things that piques my curiosity with the WA2 is the use of rectifier tubes (2). How does this affect sound quality? Is the WA2 "two WA3s on one chassis" or something more?



I happen to also have a WA6, which is a transformer-coupled amp that uses a rectifier tube, and I can confirm that the rectifier tube does indeed make a difference to the sound. I don't really understand why this happens since a rectifier should basically convert AC current to DC, but different rectifier tubes do sound different, so there is something going on that affects the sound.


----------



## JLoud

I second that rectifiers change the sound. Not as dramatically as the power tubes, but you can hear differences.


----------



## JLoud

As side note, does anyone know how to leave feedback in the new Classifieds? Usually just go to members feedback and click on Leave Feedback. But I no longer see it.


----------



## mammal

JLoud said:


> As side note, does anyone know how to leave feedback in the new Classifieds?


Go to your listing and select "Add Feedback" under More Options.


----------



## JLoud

When I go to the More tab all I see is Report. Not sure what is going on. Unless the seller has to change status to sold or closed?


----------



## whirlwind

JLoud said:


> When I go to the More tab all I see is Report. Not sure what is going on. Unless the seller has to change status to sold or closed?


I copied this from the feedback and bug reports forum
 with the new Head-Fi Classifieds system, feedback is accessible via the drop down menu located at the top of the listing. Simply click the "..." button and choose leave feedback on the closed listing to leave feedback and it will be added to the other party's total. Here's a link to our Classifieds FAQ for that specific question: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/head-fi-classifieds-faq-and-walkthrough.19757/#q8


----------



## mammal

whirlwind said:


> on the closed listing


@JLoud I think this is the trick, the ad has to be closed/sold.


----------



## JLoud

It looks like that is the case. Thanks for the replies.


----------



## jonathan c

Odin412 said:


> I happen to also have a WA6, which is a transformer-coupled amp that uses a rectifier tube, and I can confirm that the rectifier tube does indeed make a difference to the sound. I don't really understand why this happens since a rectifier should basically convert AC current to DC, but different rectifier tubes do sound different, so there is something going on that affects the sound.


I have the WA6 also and enjoy it much! What I am curious about is sound of WA3 (with ‘6080’ + ‘6922’) vs WA2 (with ‘6080’ + ‘6922’ + ‘C6A4’).


----------



## Stereolab42

Got some new PSVANE 300 ACMEs (easily available on eBay) . At the time I bought the similarly-priced PSVANE 300 PLUS in 2019, there were very few opinions on this and PSVANE was mostly derided as a second-rate brand. However, the tubes sounded fantastic and transparent and have been rock-solid reliable, and since then I've seen a lot of positive reviews of the top PSVANE tubes pop up. I still have the PLUSes but wanted to see what the ACMEs could deliver, since they are built very differently -- a globe design instead of the classic Western Electric coke bottle. Well, I'm happy to say they also sound great. Can't really tell the difference, but the PSVANE house sound to me is solid, dynamic and uncolored. Still hope to get my hands on Takatsuki 300B eventually but at the typical asking price it's a hell no.


----------



## Krutsch

Odin412 said:


> I am a WA3 owner too and I've been curious about the WA2 as well. Hopefully others can share their experiences with both products.



I've had my WA3 for a long time (8 years?), collected a Schitt-ton of tubes for it, decided to upgrade to a WA2 this summer and re-use my tube collection (it's in my profile).

I am a Sennheiser fanboy, so take my recommendation with a grain of salt: With the HD-650, the WA2 really sounds incredible. Honestly, it's all I listen with anymore. I took my WA3 to my office w/ an HD-660S fed by a Sony Walkman WM1. At home, I listen to cassette tapes and vinyl 

Do it... buy one... you survived the pandemic, you deserve it.


----------



## Odin412

Krutsch said:


> I've had my WA3 for a long time (8 years?), collected a Schitt-ton of tubes for it, decided to upgrade to a WA2 this summer and re-use my tube collection (it's in my profile).
> 
> I am a Sennheiser fanboy, so take my recommendation with a grain of salt: With the HD-650, the WA2 really sounds incredible. Honestly, it's all I listen with anymore. I took my WA3 to my office w/ an HD-660S fed by a Sony Walkman WM1. At home, I listen to cassette tapes and vinyl
> 
> Do it... buy one... you survived the pandemic, you deserve it.


Thanks! Nice cassette deck - Nakamichi?


----------



## Lucky87 (Apr 27, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> Picked up KR Audio 2A3 for my Elite. I'm waiting for my order of 300b 2.5 mesh. The KR sound really good but small compared to an EML tube. Here's pic of the Elite.


Are you using the KR HP 274B? 


Bonddam said:


> I like the acme more then the KR tubes. Lucky me I'm attracted to cheaper tubes. All I can realize KR needs lots of burn in so hopefully they will get good. Right now they sound boring over all. I'm going to switch back and see if they improve.


I have been listening to the KR HP combo 4 x 2A3 1 x 274B with the electro harmonix 6c45pi gold-pin sounds very tight and controlled. But I took out and put in my TAK 274B and everything a little bigger but not as controlled and boring. But with the stock tubes with the Susvara’s seemed to have a lot of power and authority but with the new KR HP combo not so much I need to turn them up to 12-1 o’clock but from stock tubes position @ 11-12 o’clock very loud. I am hoping the KR tubes get more power and authority as of now my Utopia’s never sounded so good. When you think Utopia small in your face intimate sound well with the KR combo it’s not in your face anymore with a HUGE SOUNDSTAGE and CLEAN DETAILED BASS SLAM.


----------



## ltq3

Does anyone use adapters for the purpose of preventing the pins from breaking and getting stuck in the tube sockets?


----------



## Bonddam

Lucky87 said:


> Are you using the KR HP 274B?
> 
> I have been listening to the KR HP combo 4 x 2A3 1 x 274B with the electro harmonix 6c45pi gold-pin sounds very tight and controlled. But I took out and put in my TAK 274B and everything a little bigger but not as controlled and boring. But with the stock tubes with the Susvara’s seemed to have a lot of power and authority but with the new KR HP combo not so much I need to turn them up to 12-1 o’clock but from stock tubes position @ 11-12 o’clock very loud. I am hoping the KR tubes get more power and authority as of now my Utopia’s never sounded so good. When you think Utopia small in your face intimate sound well with the KR combo it’s not in your face anymore with a HUGE SOUNDSTAGE and CLEAN DETAILED BASS SLAM.


So I switched to my ACME 2A3 and it became exciting. So I'll take the less expensive route for my music tastes. Bass did not decrease. I guess from what you said you need the whole KR HP line. 

So if anyone would like to upgrade to KR 2A3 HP I put mine up for sale in the classifieds.


----------



## Onik

does anyone have inside pictures of the new/recent WA2(non preamp model), with all component details? so I can check what changes they made.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Any rumors about upcoming woo amps?
I'd hope for something in the WA5 class with same tube Setup but different chassis


----------



## Stereolab42

ThanatosVI said:


> Any rumors about upcoming woo amps?
> I'd hope for something in the WA5 class with same tube Setup but different chassis


What's wrong with the WA5 setup? I think it's an excellent configuration with the sole exception that the driver and power tube sockets could be farther apart to accommodate some of the modern globe 6SN7s.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Stereolab42 said:


> What's wrong with the WA5 setup? I think it's an excellent configuration with the sole exception that the driver and power tube sockets could be farther apart to accommodate some of the modern globe 6SN7s.


There is nothing wrong with it, it's just that the 2nd Generation update is also already 6 years old.
And it's not looking as cool as i.e. a WA33 or Wes


----------



## Astral Abyss

ThanatosVI said:


> There is nothing wrong with it, it's just that the 2nd Generation update is also already 6 years old.
> And it's not looking as cool as i.e. a WA33 or Wes


Don't say things like this... I just ordered one.  😀


----------



## Stereolab42

Astral Abyss said:


> Don't say things like this... I just ordered one.  😀


Nice, the WA5 is fantastic and will last you a lifetime if you want. It's essentially 80-year-old technology, and that's the beauty of it... as long as it can power the headphones that you want and uses the tubes you want, there will never be a TECHNICAL need to replace it. (Caps might wear out and need replacing in a few decades, but that's it.) It is unlikely any pure tube amp at that price point will ever sound noticeably better.


----------



## davehg

I have to say - the WA5 is simply awesome. I recently purchased a Leben CS600x for my speaker system and while its headphone amp is really good, the WA5 is that much better. Plus it does a magnificent job with super efficient loudspeakers. I will say I am enjoying the Leben more as a speaker amp, but in fairness it puts out 4x the power.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Astral Abyss said:


> Don't say things like this... I just ordered one.  😀


Congratz on the purchase. 
It's an amazing amp, especially for the price.

I don't say that it will be replacrd, I'm more asking about new stuff.
It's not like there is a need for an update but more the fact thst without shows there are so few announcements of New gear, so I'm interested if there are leaks and rumors.

The amp will last you for a very long time


----------



## Astral Abyss

ThanatosVI said:


> Congratz on the purchase.
> It's an amazing amp, especially for the price.
> 
> I don't say that it will be replacrd, I'm more asking about new stuff.
> ...


I'm trading in my WA6-SE to help offset the cost (and make some room).  Also, I should mention it's the 5LE.  I didn't have a need for powering speakers with it.

It will be exciting to receive once it's finished being built.


----------



## arftech

Astral Abyss said:


> I'm trading in my WA6-SE to help offset the cost (and make some room).  Also, I should mention it's the 5LE.  I didn't have a need for powering speakers with it.
> 
> It will be exciting to receive once it's finished being built.


Congratulations, it’s a great amp!


----------



## JLoud

Astral Abyss said:


> I'm trading in my WA6-SE to help offset the cost (and make some room).  Also, I should mention it's the 5LE.  I didn't have a need for powering speakers with it.
> 
> It will be exciting to receive once it's finished being built.


I had a WA5LE for several years and loved it. So much that I upgraded to the WA33. Your on the same path as me. WA6SE-WA5LE-WA33. 😁


----------



## ThanatosVI

JLoud said:


> I had a WA5LE for several years and loved it. So much that I upgraded to the WA33. Your on the same path as me. WA6SE-WA5LE-WA33. 😁


Next step Wa33 EE or Wa234 Monoblocks?


----------



## Astral Abyss

JLoud said:


> I had a WA5LE for several years and loved it. So much that I upgraded to the WA33. Your on the same path as me. WA6SE-WA5LE-WA33. 😁


You're right, it's probably inevitable, but hopefully many years down the road.  I've always wanted a 300B SET amp.


----------



## JLoud

It is a very nice amp. Depending on taste you may even like it better than the WA33.


----------



## JLoud

ThanatosVI said:


> Next step Wa33 EE or Wa234 Monoblocks?


Waiting to hear the impressions on the WA234 someone is waiting on. Then again maybe I shouldn’t. 🤔


----------



## azvargulis

JLoud said:


> I had a WA5LE for several years and loved it



Still going strong. Listening to it as I write this   Also, just added some Takatsuki 300Bs to really top off the tube compliment.


----------



## muckyfingers (May 14, 2021)

I’m happy to have finally joined the WA2 club.


----------



## JLoud

Congratulations!


----------



## Odin412

muckyfingers said:


> I’m happy to have finally joined the WA2 club.


Nice!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

ThanatosVI said:


> Any rumors about upcoming woo amps?
> I'd hope for something in the WA5 class with same tube Setup but different chassis



There are currently no plans to change WA5. It is a great sounding amplifier and a mature circuit design.


----------



## ThanatosVI

HiFiGuy528 said:


> There are currently no plans to change WA5. It is a great sounding amplifier and a mature circuit design.


Thanks for confirming.


----------



## arftech

HiFiGuy528 said:


> There are currently no plans to change WA5. It is a great sounding amplifier and a mature circuit design.


Mike, where can I get the rebroadcast of the Woo Audio chat that took place a few hours ago?  I don’t see it posted in YouTub.

Thanks


----------



## HiFiGuy528

arftech said:


> Mike, where can I get the rebroadcast of the Woo Audio chat that took place a few hours ago?  I don’t see it posted in YouTub.
> 
> Thanks



We will be on YT every Thursday at 10 AM PST for the video premiere. Join us next week or the future videos.


----------



## jonathan c

Combined with Tung Sol 5998, these produced the most wide open & three dimensionally detailed sound that I have experienced from the Woo WA3. I put them in on the way to the Schiit Mjolnir II. I guess 🤷🏻 that a second pair is now on my list...adapters are standing by...


----------



## muckyfingers

I changed out my power LED to orange, so it better matches the tube glow.


----------



## mammal

Dear Woo Audio amp owners, I need your advice.

I am currently using Bartok with AB-1266, which is sounding sublime. Folks at Abyss are recommending me to try out a tube amp, preferably WA33. Unfortunately, where I live, I am not able to get my hands on a unit, and blind buying 10k+ amp is a no go for me. Also, I have no idea which one to buy (JPS/or not, S or EE, stock or upgraded tubes).

Also, I have never listened to a high end tube amplifier, I have no idea of what to expect. I mainly listen to EDM, so for me accuracy of the sound isn't of concern (how would I even judge how EDM should sound like?). In your opinion, would getting WA5-LE instead of a WA33 be a "gateway drug" into the world of Woo Audio, while being powerful enough for AB-1266? I thought of WA22 as well, but there I read it is very similar to V281 which I owned and did not like (it sounded too dark). For reference, before Bartok I owned Hugo TT2, which I found a bit too warm. I tried adding M Scaler as well, but that made things even worse. So I guess what I care with EDM is PRaT mainly.

What do you think? Thanks!


----------



## RobertSM (Jun 11, 2021)

mammal said:


> Dear Woo Audio amp owners, I need your advice.
> 
> I am currently using Bartok with AB-1266, which is sounding sublime. Folks at Abyss are recommending me to try out a tube amp, preferably WA33. Unfortunately, where I live, I am not able to get my hands on a unit, and blind buying 10k+ amp is a no go for me. Also, I have no idea which one to buy (JPS/or not, S or EE, stock or upgraded tubes).
> 
> ...


The word on the street is the WA33 will allow you to see into the music and to analyze it. The WA5LE with Mundorf capacitors allows you to enjoy the music. Both amps have plenty of power for 1266.

Look at a thread in the high-end forum called something like TOTL amps besides WA33. Someone talks about being a EDM music lover and having a WA33 EE JPS and selling it for a WA5LE caps upgrade because the WA33 didn't allow the EDM music to give him emotion. It's a common misunderstanding that EDM being made usually in the digital realm lacks emotion. It's actually the opposite, EDM can actually carry intense levels of emotion. That's where the WA5LE shines. The WA33 is a master of classical. When you want to listen to and isolate 2nd violins for example. Again when you want to listen into the music and analyze it. That's where the WA33 shines. Different amps for different preferences.

With all of that said. You may consider reaching out to Mike at Woo Audio and beginning the conversation about what your needs are. He's extremely knowledgeable and can guide you to what your ideal amp match would be.

Let us know how it goes. Good luck!


----------



## Onik (Jun 11, 2021)

mammal said:


> Dear Woo Audio amp owners, I need your advice.
> 
> I am currently using Bartok with AB-1266, which is sounding sublime. Folks at Abyss are recommending me to try out a tube amp, preferably WA33. Unfortunately, where I live, I am not able to get my hands on a unit, and blind buying 10k+ amp is a no go for me. Also, I have no idea which one to buy (JPS/or not, S or EE, stock or upgraded tubes).
> 
> ...


EDM? LOL Its not music its just noise! Just like Hip Hop rap trash, Tube amps not gonna make your fake music sound like music, you just gonna waste your money on it , its better you just grab some budget solid state amps instead..


----------



## mammal

Onik said:


> EDM? LOL Its not music its just noise! Just like Hip Hop rap trash, Tube amps not gonna make your fake music sound like music, you just gonna waste your money on it , its better you just grab some budget solid state amps instead..


There is no need to trash what I listen to. If you don't like EDM, don't listen to it. I never said EDM is superior to anything, never made a claim that others should listen to it either. So not sure where your attack is coming from.

I am asking here for advice about what's better for EDM, WA33 (and which version) or WA5-LE. This question is preferably targeting people who either own both, or at least listened to them, and can relate to EDM. Your post is not helpful at all, but I still appreciate you finding the time to share your opinion.


----------



## JLoud

Onik said:


> EDM? LOL Its not music its just noise! Just like Hip Hop rap trash, Tube amps not gonna make your fake music sound like music, you just gonna waste your money on it , its better you just grab some budget solid state amps instead..


Sounds like my grandmother. I personally enjoy EDM. I also listen to classic rock, blues, and 80's to modern pop. Now jazz is not my cup of tea. Either is classical. To me just noise. But I would never say that to someone, after all, whatever moves you or puts a smile on your face is Good Music!


----------



## JLoud

As far as the WA33 and WA5, if you like relaxed wide open sound, the WA5. Faster, tighter with more impact goes to the WA33. Just my opinion from owning both and listening to a lot of EDM. I loved both amps, just found the WA33 with upgraded tubes suited me better.


----------



## JLoud

If you want the benefits of the WA33 with still being very musical, try some mesh 2A3 mesh tubes and a Tak rectifier.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Try some mesh 2A3 mesh tubes.


Are you not using the EML 2A3 Solid plates anymore?


----------



## JLoud

I am. I just found the mesh EML on my WA5 a little more spacious sounding. Of course that is from memory and a different amp. I may try the 2A3 mesh down the road. Other projects before more tubes though. Of course I did just order some NOS EL34 tubes for my Blue Hawaii.


----------



## davehg (Jun 16, 2021)

I could use some feedback.

I invested big into my headphone system several years ago when I started a house remodel and needed to shrink my gear’s footprint. I sold off all my speaker and amp and preamp gear. Now that the remodel is done, I’ve got my music room back and the amount of time I spend headphone listening has dropped significantly.

I‘ve now ended up with my dream speaker system - Leben CS600x and Devore 0/96s. The Devores were a bit of a stretch and I am thinking of selling gear, both to cover the cost of the Devores but also in all honesty, my gear collection is now way more than I’ll ever need and more than I could realistically listen to given other time commitments.

I‘d like to keep one headphone system for those few times when I want some private listening, but generally I’ll be listening to my speakers. I alternate between headphones depending on the gear I’m using, and haven’t yet considered whether I’ll be selling any headphones.

So my choices are: keep only the Leben, which is a pretty good setup.

 Or keep a separate Woo headphone system, and if so, which Woo stays?

reasons to sell both Woos: simplifies things and the Leben is generally fine, gets me the smallest footprint of gear

reasons to keep the WA22: small footprint, a good selection of NOS tubes, great for balanced sources, tubes not quite as pricey as WA5’s 300b

reasons to keep the WA5: Makes everything sound great, doubles as an integrated amp for when I want to try something different on the speakers.

What would you keep or sell?


----------



## CAJames (Jun 16, 2021)

davehg said:


> I could use some feedback.
> 
> I invested big into my headphone system several years ago when I started a house remodel and needed to shrink my gear’s footprint. I sold off all my speaker and amp and preamp gear. Now that the remodel is done, I’ve got my music room back and the amount of time I spend headphone listening has dropped significantly.
> 
> ...



I guess that depends on what you want for the rest of your system. If you like the WA5 for headphones and really want a 300B amp for your speakers that seems like the logical choice. For me, I'm using the WA22 for 'phones and as a preamp. I like that it is fully balanced, and I like all the options for tubes. It sounds great with my HD-650s and with my amp and speakers. But for you, since it sounds like you really want to scale back, and recover some money I'd seriously consider selling at least the WA5. I love the WA22, it is small and it gives you options down the road so if I were to keep one Woo it would be that one.


----------



## Randy Myers (Jun 17, 2021)

Hello All,  I am sure this has been covered before, but honestly there are thousand of post here.  I went through several pages but felt it might be better to just to ask.  I am sorry if this has been covered before.

My system on the digital side runs Roon and HQPlayer and samples all files to 24.6 Mhz (DSD512 at 48 base clock) being feed to my T+A DAC.  I occasionally also play records through the system.  I use a Hattor passive pre-amp with their Tube Active Stage and I just purchased a Woo WA22 (2nd Gen).  I use Abyss Diana Phi headphones and have a pair of Audeze LCD-3's coming soon.

My question is about tubes and the new Woo.  It all sounds great with the stock tubes, but if I wanted to upgrade any, without going too crazy, is there one that would make more of an improvement over the others?  In other words, which of the three types is more important, if any?

Additionally is there any recommended tube upgrades for the three types?  Good source for these tubes?

Thank you, and again I am sorry if this topic has previously been address in depth .


----------



## ucmgr

*I bought a new Wa-22 gen 2 about 90 days ago. I thought that I would try to break in the new amp using the stock tubes. I lasted about 10 days and the first thing I bought was a new Sophia Electric 274B mesh plate rectifier. I had previously owned a Wa-6SE and had been using that exact same tube type for a few years and loved the way it sounded so I figured that was where I would start. I wish I had some self control because it seems like I've been buying new power tubes or driver  tubes every other week or so. My wife thinks I'm nuts! Since then, I've bought multiple pairs of RCA 6AS7G's, 5996's, and 6080's.  Most of these tubes are fairly readily available and not too stupid expensive(relatively speaking). I'm currently using the Sophia rectifier, a matched pair of RCA 6SN7WGT(NOS) , and a pair of Tung-Sol 6080's. If I were to start all over again, I would get in contact with Andy at Vintage Tubes Services and speak with him about which tubes he would recommend. I've done business with him a few times and found him to be extremely knowledgeable and more than fair in the prices for his tubes. This is what he's been successfully doing for a living for a long time. It's worth a phone call for sure! skip   *


----------



## pippen99

There is a separate thread that broke off from this thread dedicated to just the WA22.  I quit watching it a long time ago but as I remember more attention was given to the drivers, then power, and lastly rectifier.


----------



## davehg (Jun 18, 2021)

Randy Myers said:


> My question is about tubes and the new Woo.  It all sounds great with the stock tubes, but if I wanted to upgrade any, without going too crazy, is there one that would make more of an improvement over the others?  In other words, which of the three types is more important, if any?
> 
> Additionally is there any recommended tube upgrades for the three types?  Good source for these tubes.



Randy,

IMHO the order of priority is the two 6SN7 tubes, followed by the 5U4G, then lastly the 6080s.

The 6SN7s have a full thread devoted to their sounds. I’ve found that NOS Sylvania or Raytheons are a good balance between sound quality and price - you can get super silly prices for hard to find NOS Tubes. I think these are around $50-80 a pair, and there are several places online, some more reasonable than others You’ll see them as 6SN7W, 6SN7GT, and GTB, and they all should be fine.

I am partial to the Brimar 5U4G replacement which is reasonably priced compared to the Sophia 274b that is 3x the price. Langrex in the UK had some in the $30-50 range but you may need to look around.

I found a set of Mullard 6080s for about $40 and they seem fine - I’ve not experimented with many others,

also, there is a dedicated Woo WA22 thread worth reviewing.

Woo sells NOS tubes but they command a premium price and you can obtain others cheaper through independent resources.


----------



## Randy Myers

Thank you.  I have also been talking to a friend who has a wa22 and live tube rolling.  He suggested trying a JAN Phillips rectifier.  I have one coming, but will probably try others.

He also suggests the 6sn7's ahead of the power tubes.  He particularly like CBS Hytron's.  I am looking at various ones, but I did decide to grab a set I have used with other pieces before and really liked them.  These are the Black Treasures.  My friend us interested in trying a set after he researched my suggestion if them.


----------



## jonathan c

Randy Myers said:


> Thank you.  I have also been talking to a friend who has a wa22 and live tube rolling.  He suggested trying a JAN Phillips rectifier.  I have one coming, but will probably try others.
> 
> He also suggests the 6sn7's ahead of the power tubes.  He particularly like CBS Hytron's.  I am looking at various ones, but I did decide to grab a set I have used with other pieces before and really liked them.  These are the Black Treasures.  My friend us interested in trying a set after he researched my suggestion if them.


The CBS/Hytron 5692 tubes (6SN7 type) are excellent and are my favourite in the category.


----------



## Onik

Anyone from UK interested selling WA22 for WA2(New model) with Extra Tubes+Cash £

PM me.


----------



## davehg

I’ll be reluctantly putting my Gen 1 Woo WA5 up for sale shortly If anyone here has interest (PM me). Per my earlier post, I’m transitioning back to a speaker system built around the Leben 600x, and with a WA22 also in the lineup, I really can’t justify two amps that will both get scant use.

I was exclusive to headphones for six years, and it’s been odd to transition back to a speaker system. I forgot what a relative bargain headphone gear can be - for the price of a great loudspeaker pair you can enjoy two world class headphone amps AND two great headphones. Luckily I’ve done my fifth speaker based system right, and I don’t see upgrading for the foreseeable future. The question is whether the WA22 will see use or also gather dust.

For those who moved back to speakers, what was your experience?


----------



## cj3209

davehg said:


> I’ll be reluctantly putting my Gen 1 Woo WA5 up for sale shortly If anyone here has interest (PM me). Per my earlier post, I’m transitioning back to a speaker system built around the Leben 600x, and with a WA22 also in the lineup, I really can’t justify two amps that will both get scant use.
> 
> I was exclusive to headphones for six years, and it’s been odd to transition back to a speaker system. I forgot what a relative bargain headphone gear can be - for the price of a great loudspeaker pair you can enjoy two world class headphone amps AND two great headphones. Luckily I’ve done my fifth speaker based system right, and I don’t see upgrading for the foreseeable future. The question is whether the WA22 will see use or also gather dust.
> 
> For those who moved back to speakers, what was your experience?


It's human nature; eventually you'll want to come back to headphones so you may want to keep the WA-22 for that time.


----------



## davehg

cj3209 said:


> It's human nature; eventually you'll want to come back to headphones so you may want to keep the WA-22 for that time.


That was my thinking too. My Lumin streamer sounds better with balanced outs so the WA22 fits the bill, and it takes up less space, and i feel less guilty about what I’ve sunk into it vs the WA5. If the Leben headphone outputs were as good as the WA22 or if it had balanced inputs and outputs it would be nice to just use one amp for space reasons, but the Leben is pretty austere as a headphone amp, which is not its core purpose.

I’ve got a bit of a dilemma on the headphones too.I love the pairing of the LCD3 and WA5 - just amazing. The Focal is fine too, but the difference between the WA5 and WA22 is not as big on the Focal as on the Audeze. The HD650 is happy either way. The Leben seems to prefer the LCD3.  I may just keep all the headphones for the time being and save them for a rainy day when I want to reconnect and switch things up.


----------



## Randy Myers

I use both speakers and headphones.  Since recently getting my WA22 2nd Gen I have been using headphones a whole lot more .  And you are right, a world class headphone system will cost less than decent speakers usually cost....


----------



## ksorota

Just going to throw this up here.  I have posted a want ad, but since the amp is older I may have better luck on this thread.  

Looking for a WA3...PM me if you have one that you would be willing to part with. 

Thank you,
Keith


----------



## CAJames

Randy Myers said:


> I use both speakers and headphones.  Since recently getting my WA22 2nd Gen I have been using headphones a whole lot more .  And you are right, a world class headphone system will cost less than decent speakers usually cost....



I use both speakers and headphones as well. WA22 is a great preamp and a great headphone amp IMO.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> Just going to throw this up here.  I have posted a want ad, but since the amp is older I may have better luck on this thread.
> 
> Looking for a WA3...PM me if you have one that you would be willing to part with.
> 
> ...


Check your p/m…


----------



## davehg

Link to my WA5 for sale for anyone interested. I decided to keep the WA22 for now, as it has balanced inputs for my Lumin T2, and the WA5 is a bit larger than the space on my audio rack.


----------



## MasonStorm

Greetings all,

I've been using WA-234 monoblocks together with a Chord BluDAVE, tending to keep the monoblocks' volume knobs at the 9 o'clock position, and the DAVE around -30 dB.  I read that it's better for the amp to be set with its volume all the way up, and to turn down the DAC's volume, especially when using one of the DACs that doesn't (or at least claims that it doesn't) deprecate the signal as its volume is turned down.  (I'm not at all sure that "deprecate" is the correct word here - I mean to write that the signal loses information when the volume is decreased.)

I've just added a solid state amp (currently the Bakoon AMP-13R) so that my girlfriend and I can listen at the same time.  (The DAVE allows for this since it sends the signal out of both its RCA and XLR outputs concurrently.)  I usually use a Focal Utopia in the Bakoon, and an Abyss Phi TC in the WA-234's.  I found that when I turn up the Bakoon and the WA-234's to their maximum volume settings, that if I set the DAVE to around -40 dB, that we can both listen comfortably/well.  Then, in my mind's eye, I worry about an upcoming moment in which one of the vacuum tubes might go kaput in the middle of a listening session, or a power outage, lightning strike or the like.  Is there any danger of a catastrophically loud sound then being issued through the headphone attached to the WA-234's?  One that might permanently damage my hearing?  Has anyone experienced such a thing?  I realize that I could turn down both amps and turn up the DAVE, but then the theory goes that some of the sound signal will be deprecated by the amps.


----------



## mammal

MasonStorm said:


> Then, in my mind's eye, I worry about an upcoming moment in which one of the vacuum tubes might go kaput in the middle of a listening session, or a power outage, lightning strike or the like. Is there any danger of a catastrophically loud sound then being issued through the headphone attached to the WA-234's? One that might permanently damage my hearing? Has anyone experienced such a thing? I realize that I could turn down both amps and turn up the DAVE, but then the theory goes that some of the sound signal will be deprecated by the amps


I would like to know an answer to this as well. For context, Viva Egoista 845 has an RCA input that bypasses it's premap. I thought or using Bartok's preamp instead, but then the amp is on full power and I am scared what if Bartok glitches or something happens and I blow my brains out.


----------



## Odin412

MasonStorm said:


> I've just added a solid state amp (currently the Bakoon AMP-13R) so that my girlfriend and I can listen at the same time.  (The DAVE allows for this since it sends the signal out of both its RCA and XLR outputs concurrently.)  I usually use a Focal Utopia in the Bakoon, and an Abyss Phi TC in the WA-234's.  I found that when I turn up the Bakoon and the WA-234's to their maximum volume settings, that if I set the DAVE to around -40 dB, that we can both listen comfortably/well.  Then, in my mind's eye, I worry about an upcoming moment in which one of the vacuum tubes might go kaput in the middle of a listening session, or a power outage, lightning strike or the like.  Is there any danger of a catastrophically loud sound then being issued through the headphone attached to the WA-234's?  One that might permanently damage my hearing?  Has anyone experienced such a thing?  I realize that I could turn down both amps and turn up the DAVE, but then the theory goes that some of the sound signal will be deprecated by the amps.


I haven't experienced a tube going bad while listening, but I have experienced sparking in the output tube on my WA3. The result was a very loud cracking/scratching sound in my headphones. Very unpleasant, but thankfully no hearing damage. Bottom line, if your tubes go bad while listening you're in for an unpleasant experience no matter which level your volume control is set. My best advice is to just continue to enjoy your WA-234s. Besides, my experience is that electronics tend to fail at power-on, not during operations.


----------



## pippen99

Odin412 said:


> I haven't experienced a tube going bad while listening, but I have experienced sparking in the output tube on my WA3. The result was a very loud cracking/scratching sound in my headphones. Very unpleasant, but thankfully no hearing damage. Bottom line, if your tubes go bad while listening you're in for an unpleasant experience no matter which level your volume control is set. My best advice is to just continue to enjoy your WA-234s. Besides, my experience is that electronics tend to fail at power-on, not during operation.


That has been my experience.  I have had tubes gradually get noisier until they intruded on the music.  I also had a catastrophic failure on startup.
No catastrophes during operation.


----------



## VandyMan (Jul 24, 2021)

@MasonStorm I set my DAC to unity gain (0dB gain) and then adjust my amp's volume control. My understanding is that most amps have higher distortion and lower performance when turned all the way to max gain. Since your amps all have very high quality volume controls, I think I'd chose to get the full signal out of my DAC. I know some DACs claim not to do decimation, but I *think* they all reduce the dynamic range of the signal unless they control the volume in the analog domain (ie after digital to analog conversion), which has its own issues, ha.


----------



## Randy Myers

I personally would never open any piece wide (full volume).  If there are two volumes in line I keep both at reasonable levels.  I have the signal being feed from my preamp and usually set the Woo WA22 to about 2 o'clock and control from the pre-amp.  Allows me to control the volume with a remote .  I have considered going straight off my DAC but I do occasionally listen to an album through headphones so the pre-amp needs to be inline.


----------



## MasonStorm

Thanks for your replies, everyone!


----------



## davehg (Aug 21, 2021)

WA5 owners, a question. The buyer of my WA5 has experienced an odd problem. One channel is low output and the rectifier was very brightly lit on power on, then it is normal after 10 min of warmup. He swapped rectifier tubes left to right and it followed the tube, suggesting a tube problem. But his pal brought over another set of rectifiers and had the same experience. One other point, it is noisy until the amp is warm. I don’t think he has a tube tester which would resolve many questions.

any thoughts? He’s close to Woo so having Mike check out the amp is my suggestion, but symptoms suggest tubes, not amp. I’ve suggested removing bottom plate on both chassis to see if he can spot any discoloration or obvious issue with restores or caps.


----------



## hodgjy

davehg said:


> WA5 owners, a question. The buyer of my WA5 has experienced an odd problem. One channel is low output and the rectifier was very brightly lit on power on, then it is normal after 10 min of warmup. He swapped rectifier tubes left to right and it followed the tube, suggesting a tube problem. But his pal brought over another set of rectifiers and had the same experience. One other point, it is noisy until the amp is warm. I don’t think he has a tube tester which would resolve many questions.
> 
> any thoughts? He’s close to Woo so having Mike check out the amp is my suggestion, but symptoms suggest tubes, not amp. I’ve suggested removing bottom plate on both chassis to see if he can spot any discoloration or obvious issue with restores or caps.


Not a WA5 owner, but I have enough experience with tubes to feel confident that it's most likely a tube issue. If the problem follows the tubes, that's usually the giveaway. Also, noise is another telltale sign of bad/old tubes. His pal may also have aged tubes. They may sound fine on his gear, but if they are pushed harder on other gear, like the WA5, they may show their age.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Hi, I have asked this question in the wa2 thread, but thought it may get some answers here as well. 

I have just bought wa2 (4 years old, with preamp and the preamp switch at the back). The seller says wa2 has no upgrades. I will have the amp next week but as i would like wa2 to be my ultimate amp i wonder if to make any upgrades.

For now i see it may be worth to change output caps. I see wa2 has teflon wiring. Would it make sense to change into copper? Has anybody tried this? Any more upgrades that may be worth going?

Many thanks for any thoughts/experiences.


----------



## helljudgement

bpiotrow13 said:


> i would like wa2 to be my ultimate amp i wonder if to make any upgrades.


Do listen to it stock before deciding if it is worth to spend extras on changing parts. The wa2 unfortunately was not the ultimate amp for me. Owned one ages ago but have since move on to other amps.


----------



## Barnstormer13

bpiotrow13 said:


> Hi, I have asked this question in the wa2 thread, but thought it may get some answers here as well.
> 
> I have just bought wa2 (4 years old, with preamp and the preamp switch at the back). The seller says wa2 has no upgrades. I will have the amp next week but as i would like wa2 to be my ultimate amp i wonder if to make any upgrades.
> 
> ...


I do believe the Teflon refers to the insulation on the wire. The wire itself is probably copper. If you’ve got money to burn you could replace the wire with something else, but you would be spending a lot of money and it’s probably not worth it.  The WA2 is a great amp, but if you want to heavily customize it you’re probably going to see a bigger improvement and spend less by just buying a different amp that already has the parts you want.


----------



## bpiotrow13

helljudgement said:


> Do listen to it stock before deciding if it is worth to spend extras on changing parts. The wa2 unfortunately was not the ultimate amp for me. Owned one ages ago but have since move on to other amps.


Thanks, could You tell why You moved to other amps? I have heard a few including some quite expensive transformer coupled ones, but really appreciate wa3 i have now. I understand wa2 is direct improvement.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Barnstormer13 said:


> I do believe the Teflon refers to the insulation on the wire. The wire itself is probably copper. If you’ve got money to burn you could replace the wire with something else, but you would be spending a lot of money and it’s probably not worth it.  The WA2 is a great amp, but if you want to heavily customize it you’re probably going to see a bigger improvement and spend less by just buying a different amp that already has the parts you want.


Thanks, very helpful.

That teflon surprised me to be frank, maybe i misunderstood. 

I do not want to make unreasonable changes obviously. Frankly, having heard a few amps i really want to go for an OTL one. There is something in its sound i like. I have bought Wa3 just to try and i am amused by how it sounds with ZMF verite open. This is why i have decided to go for wa2 now.

Do You have something in mind by suggesting other amps? I have done a search and wa2 seems one of the top OTL amps available.


----------



## tejanolibre

bpiotrow13 said:


> Hi, I have asked this question in the wa2 thread, but thought it may get some answers here as well.
> 
> I have just bought wa2 (4 years old, with preamp and the preamp switch at the back). The seller says wa2 has no upgrades. I will have the amp next week but as i would like wa2 to be my ultimate amp i wonder if to make any upgrades.
> 
> ...



Howdy Amigo!

I had a Woo WA-22 ( 1st. Edition. ) and or Unfortunately I began to Collect "Legendary" Tung-sol Vacuum tubes from the United States Army , Navy and Air forces . ( N.O.S. including (3) Tung-sol 6F8G's  from the U.S. Navy Issued in 1942 N.O.S ! ) (2 ) Woo Audio Matched Pair of 5998's also by Tung-sol around 1952? and a Beautiful Haltron ( ? ) NOS Devil's Horns Rectifier! And some others that I can't remember right now!

To get to the POINT:

I have ZERO use for these tubes. WE all are fully aware that the exact same pair of Matched NOS 5998's from Woo are currently about $1,000.00 Bucks a pair!
The ( 3 ) 6F8G's around $600.00 ? Grey Glass Types. 

I am very willing to release these to a deserving , yet not underbidding typical Audiophile lowballing Snob!

If I just happen to Like You and your On-line persona you NEVER know! I and WE all realize that these tubes go up faster than GOLD and GOD knows that I should just keep them in there Air Tight and Moisture Proof Cigar ( Xikar ? Humidors with  Anti-Humidity Granules ! ) They are awesome for Tube storage and could be included !

Be Well,

Ramiro Guerrero

PS- There doesn't exist a very ample market down here!  Oh yes, Did I forget to mention that you can Touch , feel and TEST your TUBES out all you want with A ZERO "Buyer's" Commitment on your part and you don't have to send me a DIME ! Unless it's worth a Butt-load for a Dime!


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Nov 2, 2021)

tejanolibre said:


> Howdy Amigo!
> 
> I had a Woo WA-22 ( 1st. Edition. ) and or Unfortunately I began to Collect "Legendary" Tung-sol Vacuum tubes from the United States Army , Navy and Air forces . ( N.O.S. including (3) Tung-sol 6F8G's  from the U.S. Navy Issued in 1942 N.O.S ! ) (2 ) Woo Audio Matched Pair of 5998's also by Tung-sol around 1952? and a Beautiful Haltron ( ? ) NOS Devil's Horns Rectifier! And some others that I can't remember right now!
> 
> ...


Tube prices are going crazy and, unless good new production starts, this will ultimately lead to the end of such amps like wa2, 22, feliks euforia and many others.


----------



## helljudgement

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, could You tell why You moved to other amps? I have heard a few including some quite expensive transformer coupled ones, but really appreciate wa3 i have now. I understand wa2 is direct improvement.


Technically I find it lacking when compared to some transformer coupled amp I've heard at that time. To be fair the amps I've heard are more expensive and if I've not heard better I'd probably still keep it. After using it for a period of time I also find it too warm and lush for me so could be sign of my taste changing. Doesn't help that some of the more popular tubes are getting more expensive and harder to find. If you like the wa3 than you'll likely enjoy this amp as well.


----------



## bpiotrow13

helljudgement said:


> I also find it too warm and lush for me so could be sign of my taste changing. Doesn't help that some of the more popular tubes are getting more expensive and harder to find. If you like the wa3 than you'll likely enjoy this amp as well.


Thanks, that explains all to me I am looking for warm and lush sound. Already have some tubes as well Just waiting for wa2 itself (will get it on Friday probably). Apart from the sound it looks wonderful.


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Nov 3, 2021)

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, very helpful.
> 
> That teflon surprised me to be frank, maybe i misunderstood.
> 
> ...


I’m not really an OTL enthusiast so I can’t help you there (like a bit of dryness I guess). There are a few legendary ones I’ve heard of but haven’t heard so can’t comment.

My tastes run to transformer coupled amps, of which I think the WA6-SE is way better than is generally recognized.


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Nov 3, 2021)

Barnstormer13 said:


> I’m not really an OTL enthusiast so I can’t help you there (like a bit of dryness I guess). There are a few legendary ones I’ve heard of but haven’t heard so can’t comment.
> 
> My tastes run to transformer coupled amps, of which I think the WA6-SE is way better than is generally recognized.


I used to have wa6se and liked it as well. It is very indicative for me what You wrote that You like a bit of dryness. This is something I do not like too much Although wa6 seemed moderate with this regard as I remember (had different headphones then though). At the same time this is very helpful in determining which way to go and why You prefer solid and I should look at OTL.

Many thanks.


----------



## thecrow

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, that explains all to me I am looking for warm and lush sound. Already have some tubes as well Just waiting for wa2 itself (will get it on Friday probably). Apart from the sound it looks wonderful.


In nutshell the wa2 is a silky smooth amp and is best suited to high impedance hps. It’s great with my hd800 - i consider those two as one unit.
imho


----------



## bpiotrow13

thecrow said:


> In nutshell the wa2 is a silky smooth amp and is best suited to high impedance hps. It’s great with my hd800 - i consider those two as one unit.
> imho


Good I have ZMF Verite open (300 oms) and like it very much with my wa3. I thought wa2 will be the direct upgrade so decided to pull a trigger.


----------



## hodgjy

bpiotrow13 said:


> Tube prices are going crazy and, unless good new production starts, this will ultimately lead to the end of such amps like wa2, 22, feliks euforia and many others.


There are still mountains of cold war era Russian and Chinese tubes.


----------



## CAJames

hodgjy said:


> There are still mountains of cold war era Russian and Chinese tubes.



If those tubes work for you you’re in good shape. For me though I don’t think I’d be happy with my WA22 if I couldn’t use NOS European and US tubes. Fortunately I’ve got a pretty good hoard supply of the tubes I really like.


----------



## jonathan c

bpiotrow13 said:


> Tube prices are going crazy and, unless good new production starts, this will ultimately lead to the end of such amps like wa2, 22, feliks euforia and many others.


If _good / holy grail _tube prices keep rising / stay elevated, inducement to produce (reproduce) ‘classic’ tubes may also rise - thus alleviating supply and tube amplifier survival fears…


----------



## bpiotrow13

jonathan c said:


> If _good / holy grail _tube prices keep rising / stay elevated, inducement to produce (reproduce) ‘classic’ tubes may also rise - thus alleviating supply and tube amplifier survival fears…


Let's hope so. Has anybody heard anything on plans for reissuing 6as7/6080 family? I gues none of these tubes are produced nowadays. I wonder who could reissue such tues and what would be the quality...


----------



## vlach

thecrow said:


> In nutshell the wa2 is a silky smooth amp and is best suited to high impedance hps. It’s great with my hd800 - i consider those two as one unit.
> imho


Agreed.


----------



## hodgjy

CAJames said:


> If those tubes work for you you’re in good shape. For me though I don’t think I’d be happy with my WA22 if I couldn’t use NOS European and US tubes. Fortunately I’ve got a pretty good hoard supply of the tubes I really like.


I've owned various tube amps over the years and I've rolled the hell out of them. I've used everything from the cheapest tubes to the unobtanium tubes blessed by frozen unicorn tears.

My opinion of tubes has changed over the years. 

Are there difference between tubes? Absolutely. Some are noisy. Some are quiet. Some have different timbre. Some have treble roll off or show the opposite peaky extension. Some have flabby bass or show the opposite tight and dry lower registers.

Can different complements of tubes have synergistic effects on the overall sound qualities of an amp? Also, absolutely yes.

However, while there are noticeable changes, I'd say that we greatly exaggerate the sonic differences between tubes. Maybe it's due to expectation bias. I'm not an audiologist or psychologist, so I can't tell for sure. But, I can say that when I remove my expectation bias and do some blind listening, I'm more likely to not notice large differences in tubes and have been known to get incorrect answers when asked to identify certain tubes.

Where am I going with this? I think amps retain their basic DNA no matter what tubes you roll into them. I think this is why makers like Jack Wu have no problem selling amps with the most basic Russian or Chinese tubes as stock because the amp sounds well within its intended sonic flavor. These makers rely on word of mouth advertising, so they can't afford missteps by putting out amps that sound bad. In other words, not only do they not care that you roll tubes or not, they are betting their bottom line on the end user not rolling tubes.

If one has the financial means to buy exotic unobtanium, I hope they do so and enjoy their amps to the highest possible levels. But, not being able to find or afford such exotic tubes doesn't diminish the quality of the amps or their overall ability to sing. Their makers know this, they will continue to make and sell these amps without any regard for the supply of unobtanium tubes, and I propose that more of us could be a bit more realistic in our own expectations as I have very stubbornly learned to do over the years. I'm perfectly happy with a $150 Schiit Vali 2+ with a $15 Russian tube. It's not all that different from my $2000 Trafomatic with rare 1970s Russian tubes and a snobby rectifier.


----------



## hodgjy

bpiotrow13 said:


> Let's hope so. Has anybody heard anything on plans for reissuing 6as7/6080 family? I gues none of these tubes are produced nowadays. I wonder who could reissue such tues and what would be the quality...


The Russian equivalents are pretty darn good. I'd have no problem running these tubes in my amps. Plus, they are usually very quiet, which is another bonus. RCA and Chatham 6AS7G tubes tend to be quite noisy.


----------



## mordy

hodgjy said:


> I've owned various tube amps over the years and I've rolled the hell out of them. I've used everything from the cheapest tubes to the unobtanium tubes blessed by frozen unicorn tears.
> 
> My opinion of tubes has changed over the years.
> 
> ...





hodgjy said:


> I've owned various tube amps over the years and I've rolled the hell out of them. I've used everything from the cheapest tubes to the unobtanium tubes blessed by frozen unicorn tears.
> 
> My opinion of tubes has changed over the years.
> 
> ...


Agree completely that you can get very good sound from inexpensive tubes. At the same time, you will find that most people on these threads end up using different tubes than the factory supplied ones. The tubes the amps come with are good, and selected with care by the amp manufacturers, but IMHO the majority of people end up with different tubes because to many people they sound better. It does not mean expensive tubes necessarily.

The real reason why manufacturers use certain new production tubes instead of NOS is because they need a reliable large supply of tubes for their production, and the NOS tubes many end up with are not available in the quantities required. As an individual owner you just need a pair or so, whereas the manufacturer needs hundreds.

I have a sub $400 Russian hybrid tube amp that uses $2-5 tubes and it sounds almost as good as my US boutique $2000 tube amp - it certainly is just as enjoyable.

Everybody listens differently - some people listen to their amps and others to the music. I do both (at different times) and cannot say that one way is better than the other. After spending a lot of time with certain tube combinations I just know that this combination ends up grating on my nerves in the long run, even if it sounded great initially, and other tube combinations continue to please without any irritations.
Certainly there is expectation bias, but that goes away after spending a lot of time with the equipment.
Another thought: For a novice the tubes look pretty much the same (except for size), and I think that the prices on certain tubes have been jacked up by unscrupulous sellers because they are easy to identify for an inexperienced person:
Examples are red base, smoked glass, curved base or a very prominent getter flashing etc. Obviously, the bigger the tube, the better the sound (not true). And even though older tubes many times sound better than new production, it is not always the case. Then there are dishonest sellers that advertise tubes at fantasy prices in the thousands....
In summary: When it comes to tubes, price and sound have very little correlation. And remember:
TRUST YOUR EARS!


----------



## hodgjy

mordy said:


> Agree completely that you can get very good sound from inexpensive tubes. At the same time, you will find that most people on these threads end up using different tubes than the factory supplied ones. The tubes the amps come with are good, and selected with care by the amp manufacturers, but IMHO the majority of people end up with different tubes because to many people they sound better. It does not mean expensive tubes necessarily.
> 
> The real reason why manufacturers use certain new production tubes instead of NOS is because they need a reliable large supply of tubes for their production, and the NOS tubes many end up with are not available in the quantities required. As an individual owner you just need a pair or so, whereas the manufacturer needs hundreds.
> 
> ...


Very well said!

I'll also add that Jack Wu seems to supply his amps with various collections of stock tubes that vary from manufacturing run to run. To me, this means he trusts his amp designs to portray the sonic characteristics fairly consistently regardless of which tubes you roll into them.


----------



## bpiotrow13

mordy said:


> In summary: When it comes to tubes, price and sound have very little correlation. And remember:
> TRUST YOUR EARS!


Very true, but coming to this conclusion may be expensive 

Sometimes it is difficult to admit that much cheaper tubes sound better than very expensive ones that You have just bought. Also many people do not want to choose based on what they hear and prefer to follow recommendations. Sometimes (or often) trying expensive tubes is not poasible without buying them.


----------



## grokit

Tubes! Gotta love 'em in this thread. And tubes are a big reason I decided to migrate to my Woo 3ES. I started my 'Woorney' with a used WA22; it had a rough ride and I became impressed with Woo's service department enough to eventually convert the SE input to balanced, and also made it into a preamp. I added a SS electrostatic amp, driven by the WA22's pre out. Then the electrostatic amp started to have issues, perhaps intractable. My old WA22 also seemed to be developing issues as well.

Woo seemed more interested in getting me to trade it in than to service my WA22 again. So I bought a new WA22 Gen 2, but I took notice. Woo's new 3ES was (still is) on introductory sale. I had my old WA22 to trade in. But what really caught my interest is that my WA22 rectifier and driver tube inventory would transfer over to the 3ES. Not only that, but the other tubes that the SA3 needs are the holy grail of tubes, the 300B. And here's the real kicker; the WA300B is undergoing a true renaissance.

I remember not so long ago the pickings were pretty slim in 300B land. Either you gave up way too much skin for a (matched quad!) of the OG tubes, if you could even locate them, or you went with lesser quality sound by popular consensus. Now there's a whole bunch of high end new issue 300B's available, led by the WE re-issue, which was very well received, and the current king of the hill the Takatsuki TA-300B. There's a whole crop of Sophia 300B varieties right behind them, among others.

So I believe that the state of tube amplifiers is better than ever, and that if the 300B tubes can have a successful comeback in high-end audio I don't see why other tube varieties can't follow suit. Heck the new the Takatsuki TA-274B may be the best tube of that variety ever made, from new issue to NOS. Arguably, anyways.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Nov 4, 2021)

grokit said:


> Tubes! Gotta love 'em in this thread. And tubes are a big reason I decided to migrate to my Woo 3ES. I started my 'Woorney' with a used WA22; it had a rough ride and I became impressed with Woo's service department enough to eventually convert the SE input to balanced, and also made it into a preamp. I added a SS electrostatic amp, driven by the WA22's pre out. Then the electrostatic amp started to have issues, perhaps intractable. My old WA22 also seemed to be developing issues as well.
> 
> Woo seemed more interested in getting me to trade it in than to service my WA22 again. So I bought a new WA22 Gen 2, but I took notice. Woo's new 3ES was (still is) on introductory sale. I had my old WA22 to trade in. But what really caught my interest is that my WA22 rectifier and driver tube inventory would transfer over to the 3ES. Not only that, but the other tubes that the SA3 needs are the holy grail of tubes, the 300B. And here's the real kicker; the WA300B is undergoing a true renaissance.
> 
> ...


If the Wa33 would use the tube complement of the 3ES I would have bought one long ago.
I even inquired about a custom amp (basically a 3ES for regular headphones) but to no avail.

Now that the CRBN is on order the 3ES became more interesting again, but only if I feel my Octave V16 + Mjölnir SRD-7 lacking.

How is he 3ES as preamp?


----------



## grokit (Nov 4, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> If the Wa33 would use the tube complement of the 3ES I would have bought one long ago.
> I even inquired about a custom amp (basically a 3ES for regular headphones) but to no avail.
> 
> Now that the CRBN is on order the 3ES became more interesting again, but only if I feel my Octave V16 + Mjölnir SRD-7 lacking.
> ...


I am very happy with the 3ES. I can't recommend it highly enough, as both an electrostatic headamp or as a balanced preamp. I'm going out to a Wells Headtrip II with the pre circuit, which is a fantastic solid state dynamic headamp. I feel like these headphone amplifiers are as good as I will ever get, because they both honestly leave me wanting nothing. Tweaks, cables and perhaps some source upgrades are all I'm interested in (except for every top headphone ever NO! I'm not a collector lol) now.

Speaking of top headphones; since you mentioned the CRBN (top of my list after some WA 300B re-issues!); Mike at Woo and I have been corresponding off and on. He told me that the CRBN was voiced with the 3ES, later I asked what the tube compliment was and he said stock. He recommends the stock tubes during the 3ES break-in as well. I rode with the stock tubes for a few weeks, then I rolled in a few old tubes from my WA22 days to keep the stock 300B's company, notably the USAF 690.






Not a great pic but these are 100% of my tubes that require adapters lol. I'll roll the stock tubes back in pretty soon to see if I can tell the difference.

I do have an extra USAF 690 or two. I figure the WA re-issues can live pretty comfortably with the tubes I have on hand. If I ever get uber sources I can see investing in a set of Takatsuki 300B + 274B (not sure what SN7) tubes, but probably not as those may be more appropriate for the Elite Edition 3ES (also on sale!). The WA re-issues have a 5-year warranty, which is also a selling point for me. I'm also still using my WA22 v.2 as a bedroom amp these days so lots of rolling possibilities.

I edited the picture.


----------



## bpiotrow13

I have just received my wa2. Comparing to wa3 it seems to be more airy, instruments are more separated and soundstage is wider. But this is just first impression and i am using a bit different tubes than with wa3. Wa3 is not bad at all though. Apart from that wa2 looks awesome


----------



## hodgjy

bpiotrow13 said:


> I have just received my wa2. Comparing to wa3 it seems to be more airy, instruments are more separated and soundstage is wider. But this is just first impression and i am using a bit different tubes than with wa3. Wa3 is not bad at all though. Apart from that wa2 looks awesome


Not surprising at all since it’s dual mono and therefore has a lot less crosstalk.


----------



## bpiotrow13

hodgjy said:


> Not surprising at all since it’s dual mono and therefore has a lot less crosstalk.


I am not an expert at all. So You are saying dual mono is better? ( at least that would seem so).


----------



## hodgjy

bpiotrow13 said:


> I am not an expert at all. So You are saying dual mono is better? ( at least that would seem so).


Better is subjective, but in dual mono, L and R channels are completely independent amplification pathways so you get fewer issues. Many issues are inaudible, but some are audible, including crosstalk. Also, independent channels have their own “pools” to draw power from and aren’t bogged down when they are required to “share” from a common pool.


----------



## bpiotrow13

hodgjy said:


> Better is subjective, but in dual mono, L and R channels are completely independent amplification pathways so you get fewer issues. Many issues are inaudible, but some are audible, including crosstalk. Also, independent channels have their own “pools” to draw power from and aren’t bogged down when they are required to “share” from a common pool.


Thanks, that (as i understand it) translates into more airy and separated sound. This is how i see it.


----------



## bpiotrow13

I just could not resist, another dual mono advantage is more tubes


----------



## mordy

Did you say more tubes?


----------



## bpiotrow13

mordy said:


> Did you say more tubes?


Ha, ha. Looks like a military gear is it a headphone amplifier?


----------



## mordy

bpiotrow13 said:


> Ha, ha. Looks like a military gear is it a headphone amplifier?


I think it is a speaker amplifier dual mono. Each side has 14x6AS7 and 5x6SN7 tubes.
Here you can read more about the Atma Sphere MA-1:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/atmasphere/silver.html

But what you really want is the MA-3 - 500W/channel; the two channels have combined 108 tubes!


----------



## musicman59

mordy said:


> I think it is a speaker amplifier dual mono. Each side has 14x6AS7 and 5x6SN7 tubes.
> Here you can read more about the Atma Sphere MA-1:
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/atmasphere/silver.html
> 
> But what you really want is the MA-3 - 500W/channel; the two channels have combined 108 tubes!


How many lambs can you roast with their heat dissipation?


----------



## mordy

musicman59 said:


> How many lambs can you roast with their heat dissipation?


Not sure - and I am not sure if you will notice if a tube isn't working lol.

It's like looking at Ferrari and Lamborghini cars - interesting, but just for the enjoyment of reading about it. 

But you don't need super expensive stuff to enjoy listening - I remember being fascinated by a crystal radio as a child....


----------



## bpiotrow13

mordy said:


> Not sure - and I am not sure if you will notice if a tube isn't working lol.
> 
> It's like looking at Ferrari and Lamborghini cars - interesting, but just for the enjoyment of reading about it.
> 
> But you don't need super expensive stuff to enjoy listening - I remember being fascinated by a crystal radio as a child....


I am quite sure the joy from listening to such simple setup was comparable to that connected with listening to top gear


----------



## musicman59

mordy said:


> Not sure - and I am not sure if you will notice if a tube isn't working lol.
> 
> It's like looking at Ferrari and Lamborghini cars - interesting, but just for the enjoyment of reading about it.
> 
> But you don't need super expensive stuff to enjoy listening - I remember being fascinated by a crystal radio as a child....


LOL… you are right!


----------



## Chianti (Nov 17, 2021)

hodgjy said:


> tubes as stock because the amp sounds well within its intended sonic flavor. These makers rely on word of mouth advertising, so they can't afford missteps by putting out a





ThanatosVI said:


> If the Wa33 would use the tube complement of the 3ES I would have bought one long ago.
> I even inquired about a custom amp (basically a 3ES for regular headphones) but to no avail.
> 
> Now that the CRBN is on order the 3ES became more interesting again, but only if I feel my Octave V16 + Mjölnir SRD-7 lacking.
> ...


My path: I recently bought both WA33 JPS Elite and 3ES Elite (arriving this Friday). There is no headphone I know for the WA33 requiring more power than what the 2A3s can deliver. That likely being one of the potential reasons for amp designers to step up 2x power and go 300B instead? On the 3ES, it looks like phones such as the SR-X 9000 (mine hopefully arriving end of this month) provide enough of a reason why more power is needed, excluding the 2A3s from consideration.

On the WA33, since I have several less power hungry headphones (compared to e.g. Susvara, which I am listening to right now from said amp) I can appreciate the decision to calibrate the power scale to be more inclusive towards the lower end, and retain some measure of sophistication vs. the emotional drive of 300Bs. My WA33 JPS Elite gets reasonably close to the ethos of my Ayon Spheris III (a $30k tube preamp). The name of the game, esp. with the Elite edition, is not about tube coloration, more about using the tubes to lay out a differentiated sound field (stage is the wrong word, since it includes layering of instruments as well - something solid state will not provide). FYI - just went back to KR HP 274 rectifier (replacing the Takatsuki 274b) which seems to offer greater synergy with my 2A3 KR HPs.


----------



## exchez

Chianti said:


> My path: I recently bought both WA33 JPS Elite and 3ES Elite (arriving this Friday). There is no headphone I know for the WA33 requiring more power than what the 2A3s can deliver. That likely being one of the potential reasons for amp designers to step up 2x power and go 300B instead? On the 3ES, it looks like phones such as the SR-X 9000 (mine hopefully arriving end of this month) provide enough of a reason why more power is needed, excluding the 2A3s from consideration.
> 
> On the WA33, since I have several less power hungry headphones (compared to e.g. Susvara, which I am listening to right now from said amp) I can appreciate the decision to calibrate the power scale to be more inclusive towards the lower end, and retain some measure of sophistication vs. the emotional drive of 300Bs. My WA33 JPS Elite gets reasonably close to the ethos of my Ayon Spheris III (a $30k tube preamp). The name of the game, esp. with the Elite edition, is not about tube coloration, more about using the tubes to lay out a differentiated sound field (stage is the wrong word, since it includes layering of instruments as well - something solid state will not provide). FYI - just went back to KR HP 274 rectifier (replacing the Takatsuki 274b) which seems to offer greater synergy with my 2A3 KR HPs.


I will have to mull on "a differentiated sound field." I only have a WA2, but I feel like it expresses so much more than other tube amps I've owned. Hard to put words to. But perhaps the WA33 and other similar amps can express aspects of the recording that the WA2 simply can't and we're thinking about two different qualities.


----------



## bpiotrow13

exchez said:


> I only have a WA2, but I feel like it expresses so much more than other tube amps I've owned. Hard to put words to.


This is interesting. I also have wa2 and find it more to my liking than wa22 i used to have. By wa2 expressing more than other amps You mean dynamics?
And i strongly agree that tubes amps are not only about coloration but also about layering.


----------



## mordy

bpiotrow13 said:


> This is interesting. I also have wa2 and find it more to my liking than wa22 i used to have. By wa2 expressing more than other amps You mean dynamics?
> And i strongly agree that tubes amps are not only about coloration but also about layering.


How do you define layering?


----------



## bpiotrow13

mordy said:


> How do you define layering?


Instrument separation, kind of 3d presentation, where instruments are separated and You are able to locate them. I would say layering is the opposite of flat sound.


----------



## Bonddam

Question sound and gain difference between WA5 LE 1St and 2nd gen?

Had 2nd gen with Mundorf caps sold it then jumped on Woo’s refurb deal on a 1st gen. All I now by pictures there’s no gain or power knobs on 1st gen. Wondering if it will power the 1266 TC with enough volume? The 1st gen I bought has two 1/4 inch jacks one for low and other for high impedance. Any help, I didn’t buy this solely for 1266. I needed a mid range with some bass bloom amp.

Thanks 

Bill


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> Question sound and gain difference between WA5 LE 1St and 2nd gen?
> 
> Had 2nd gen with Mundorf caps sold it then jumped on Woo’s refurb deal on a 1st gen. All I now by pictures there’s no gain or power knobs on 1st gen. Wondering if it will power the 1266 TC with enough volume? The 1st gen I bought has two 1/4 inch jacks one for low and other for high impedance. Any help, I didn’t buy this solely for 1266. I needed a mid range with some bass bloom amp.
> 
> ...


Any particular reason for selling the 2nd Gen or did you just want to try the 1st Gen?


----------



## Bonddam

joseph69 said:


> Any particular reason for selling the 2nd Gen or did you just want to try the 1st Gen?


sold it because my Dragon is more resolving but miss that 300b tube sound so impulse buy for $2k was hard to pass up. I’m kinda hoping this one is set to full power unlike the gen 2 model that has a power and gain switch. It might be refurbished but new transformers and other internal parts is good enough for me.


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> sold it because my Dragon is more resolving but miss that 300b tube sound so impulse buy for $2k was hard to pass up. I’m kinda hoping this one is set to full power unlike the gen 2 model that has a power and gain switch. It might be refurbished but new transformers and other internal parts is good enough for me.


Damn, for $2K it sounds tempting too me!


----------



## Bonddam

It doesn't do the 8 watts out of the headphone jacks from info I can find which is very scarce. So looks like 1.5 watts total but my headphones are pretty easy to drive except four of them.


----------



## musicman59

Bonddam said:


> It doesn't do the 8 watts out of the headphone jacks from info I can find which is very scarce. So looks like 1.5 watts total but my headphones are pretty easy to drive except four of them.


Yes, the difference between the WA5 1st gen and WA5-LE 1st gen is that the LE does not have XLR headphones output, speaker tabs and it has a choke to just put 1.5 watts output put instead of the full 8 of the WA5.

I used to own one custom made by Woo with several upgrades. It was built back in 2005 I think. It was a great amp and drove everything great with the exception of the original HE-6. If you use 300b XLS tubes you will get a little more output.


----------



## Bonddam

musicman59 said:


> Yes, the difference between the WA5 1st gen and WA5-LE 1st gen is that the LE does not have XLR headphones output, speaker tabs and it has a choke to just put 1.5 watts output put instead of the full 8 of the WA5.
> 
> I used to own one custom made by Woo with several upgrades. It was built back in 2005 I think. It was a great amp and drove everything great with the exception of the original HE-6. If you use 300b XLS tubes you will get a little more output.


Thanks for info and good I can use EML xls. I'm curious if the transformers will give enough oomph for 1266. I just wanted a warm amp for my brighter headphones. I'm waiting for next year when new amp comes out cuff cuff.


----------



## musicman59

I don’t have experience with the 1266 but at 47 ohms and only 88 db (5 db more than Susvara) it might be borderline.


----------



## musicman59

Bonddam said:


> Thanks for info and good I can use EML xls. I'm curious if the transformers will give enough oomph for 1266. I just wanted a warm amp for my brighter headphones. I'm waiting for next year when new amp comes out cuff cuff.


Send a PM to JLoud he might know.


----------



## Bonddam

musicman59 said:


> Send a PM to JLoud he might know.


Thanks


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 28, 2021)

What is the (or a) stated nominal output impedance for the Woo Audio WA2? I am curious because the WA2 works _really well _with Grado PS2000e and Focal Clear (nominal input impedances: 38 ohms and 55 ohms) besides being fantastic on the ZMFs (nominal impedances: 300 ohms).


----------



## Bonddam

jonathan c said:


> What is the (or a) stated nominal output impedance for the Woo Audio WA2? I am curious because the WA2 works _really well _with Grado PS2000e and Focal Clear (nominal input impedances: 38 ohms and 55 ohms) besides being fantastic on the ZMFs (nominal impedances: 300 ohms).



They don't post those. They told me music is dynamic and I was like huh. Maybe the Woo amps have good current which then wattage isn't important which would be like my Wells Audio Dragon 5 watts 1 amp of current.


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## Ciggavelli

My 3ES Elite arrived. Here it is next to my WA33 EE JPS. I have the Sr-X9000 and CRBN on order, but it’s still a waiting game. Depending on how those two sound, I may get the Shangri-La Sr headphones sometime next year.


----------



## Bonddam

Here is my tube setup in my gen 1 LE. I was going to get the gen 2 but I don’t feel it necessary. I had the Elite all decked out but was more of a WA5 after having the gen 2 only thing the gen 2 I had was sometimes noisy with easy to drive headphones. Reason I didn’t stay with the Elite was the balanced sound over single ended designs. With other headphones that are not 1266 didnt have same amazing sound that WA5 gives with tube magic. I had three WA33 and finally gave up. Mike recommended the 5 LE and he was right. So being Wells fan sold my gen 2 WA5 but when $,2000 gen 1 came up I pounced on it in seconds. I’m happy I did. It is more tubie then gen 2 in warmth think I would need upgraded caps if it’s possible anyways using eml 300b 274b and shuagung  cv181 z. Have 3 DAC’s hooked up to it Wells Cipher, Denafrips Pontus 2 and Chord Qutest. No particular favorite DAC on this amp as the amp in bass to midrange amp with dark distant treble energy. The Cipher is the smoothest and more natural but this amp can use as much aggression it can get.


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Dec 5, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> Here is my tube setup in my gen 1 LE. I was going to get the gen 2 but I don’t feel it necessary. I had the Elite all decked out but was more of a WA5 after having the gen 2 only thing the gen 2 I had was sometimes noisy with easy to drive headphones. Reason I didn’t stay with the Elite was the balanced sound over single ended designs. With other headphones that are not 1266 didnt have same amazing sound that WA5 gives with tube magic. I had three WA33 and finally gave up. Mike recommended the 5 LE and he was right. So being Wells fan sold my gen 2 WA5 but when $,2000 gen 1 came up I pounced on it in seconds. I’m happy I did. It is more tubie then gen 2 in warmth think I would need upgraded caps if it’s possible anyways using eml 300b 274b and shuagung  cv181 z. Have 3 DAC’s hooked up to it Wells Cipher, Denafrips Pontus 2 and Chord Qutest. No particular favorite DAC on this amp as the amp in bass to midrange amp with dark distant treble energy. The Cipher is the smoothest and more natural but this amp can use as much aggression it can get.


This looks really good i think what is worth noting in this setup is that all tubes are new production. I have had some EML tubes and shuagung  cv181 and they are really at NOS level.

How would You compare wa5le to zmf pendant and bottlehead crack (i see You own them). I know these are very different amps but still would be interesting to know (at least briefly) how they compare in terms of details/soundstage/warmth.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> My 3ES Elite arrived. Here it is next to my WA33 EE JPS. I have the Sr-X9000 and CRBN on order, but it’s still a waiting game. Depending on how those two sound, I may get the Shangri-La Sr headphones sometime next year.


That's one beautiful amp setup.
Loving it!

Both in black as well, just as it should be.


----------



## Bonddam

bpiotrow13 said:


> This looks really good i think what is worth noting in this setup is that all tubes are new production. I have had some EML tubes and shuagung  cv181 and they are really at NOS level.
> 
> How would You compare wa5le to zmf pendant and bottlehead crack (i see You own them). I know these are very different amps but still would be interesting to know (at least briefly) how they compare in terms of details/soundstage/warmth.


All amps even 33 are major difference. The 5 is the warmest the rest are more neutral. The BottleHead can get closer in any direction. The 33 with same type tubes always keeps more solid effect. Pendant stays more ss with tube magic. ZMF I like most on BottleHead and WA5. WA33 is the powerhouse but eats your wallet for buying power tubes. The Pendant I have a bunch of tubes but not really any change other than gain.  The WA33 did have change but always kept warmth under control satisfying both camps but find it more of a critical amp due to balanced design. The 5 you can swing ss with KR tubes to warm with eml if neutral is choice add Takasuki instead. Only reason moved away from 33 was I didn’t enjoy majority of headphones. Found many headphones needed bloom to enjoy them. All amps are tube holographic. My favorite tube on the 33 was 300b 2.5 solid plate. The WA5 favorite tube Takasuki 300b. The Pendant PSvane EL84 Psvane. The Pendant RCA 6as7g Victor hard to get I was lucky on eBay.

It’s tough to have one I don’t believe one is enough.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Bonddam said:


> All amps even 33 are major difference. The 5 is the warmest the rest are more neutral. The BottleHead can get closer in any direction. The 33 with same type tubes always keeps more solid effect. Pendant stays more ss with tube magic. ZMF I like most on BottleHead and WA5. WA33 is the powerhouse but eats your wallet for buying power tubes. The Pendant I have a bunch of tubes but not really any change other than gain.  The WA33 did have change but always kept warmth under control satisfying both camps but find it more of a critical amp due to balanced design. The 5 you can swing ss with KR tubes to warm with eml if neutral is choice add Takasuki instead. Only reason moved away from 33 was I didn’t enjoy majority of headphones. Found many headphones needed bloom to enjoy them. All amps are tube holographic. My favorite tube on the 33 was 300b 2.5 solid plate. The WA5 favorite tube Takasuki 300b. The Pendant PSvane EL84 Psvane. The Pendant RCA 6as7g Victor hard to get I was lucky on eBay.
> 
> It’s tough to have one I don’t believe one is enough.


Thanks, very interesting. I used to have wa22 and now i have wa2 and 3. I think all of them are not warm enough for me seems pendant is not the way to go for me with my ZMF VO.


----------



## Bonddam (Dec 5, 2021)

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, very interesting. I used to have wa22 and now i have wa2 and 3. I think all of them are not warm enough for me seems pendant is not the way to go for me with my ZMF VO.


Which power tubes are you using. Found ts5998 the warm tube for wa2. The ts7236 was polar opposite. 6080’s more neutral of the bunch. Amperex 6922 with gold pins driver tubes make a warm tone. My favorite are Bel or Philips c88ee kinda balance with warmth without going to far. The gen 1 of the wa3 has real warm sound.


----------



## Chianti

Ciggavelli said:


> My 3ES Elite arrived. Here it is next to my WA33 EE JPS. I have the Sr-X9000 and CRBN on order, but it’s still a waiting game. Depending on how those two sound, I may get the Shangri-La Sr headphones sometime next year.


Nobody told me that they could be purchased individually


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Dec 5, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> Which power tubes are you using. Found ts5998 the warm tube for wa2. The ts7236 was polar opposite. 6080’s more neutral of the bunch. Amperex 6922 with gold pins driver tubes make a warm tone. My favorite are Bel or Philips c88ee kinda balance with warmth without going to far. The gen 1 of the wa3 has real warm sound.


Thanks, have You heard wa2? Indeed wa3 is warmer. In wa2 i used TS5998, RCA 6as7 and Sylvania 7236 for power tubes and Amperex and mullards 6922 for driver. Just to be clear, it sounded really good with all setups, it is just i like warmer sound.

Is wa5 warmer than wa2?


----------



## jonathan c

Bonddam said:


> Which power tubes are you using. Found ts5998 the warm tube for wa2. The ts7236 was polar opposite. 6080’s more neutral of the bunch. Amperex 6922 with gold pins driver tubes make a warm tone. My favorite are Bel or Philips c88ee kinda balance with warmth without going to far. The gen 1 of the wa3 has real warm sound.


BEL E88CC ?…(one of my favourite 6922 type tubes)


----------



## Bonddam

jonathan c said:


> BEL E88CC ?…(one of my favourite 6922 type tubes)


Have Bel and Philips I use in my Wells Dragon lvl3 from time to time.


----------



## Bonddam (Dec 5, 2021)

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, have You heard wa2? Indeed wa3 is warmer. In wa2 i used TS5998, RCA 6as7 and Sylvania 7236 for power tubes and Amperex and mullards 6922 for driver. Just to be clear, it sonded really good with all setups, it is just i like warmer sound.
> 
> Is wa5 warmer than wa2?


I’d say no too being warmer. my current WA5 LE is gen 1 where my gen 2 seemed more linear, maybe old stuff was. The wa22 is considered warm and lush with reviews I read against a more aggressive Cayin(don’t remember model number).


----------



## bpiotrow13

Bonddam said:


> I’d say no too being warmer. my current WA5 LE is gen 1 where my gen 2 seemed more linear, maybe old stuff was. The wa22 is considered warm and lush with reviews I read against a more aggressive Cayin(don’t remember model number).


You meant wa2 (not wa22) i guess. Wa2 is very lush and moderately warm to me. It is all subjective, everybody has different perception of warm and it feels different with different music. But objectively wa2 is warmer than wa22 and wa3 warmer than wa2. At least to me


----------



## Ciggavelli

Chianti said:


> Nobody told me that they could be purchased individually


Nice!  What tubes are you using with the 3ES for the 6SN7s?  I have the NOS RCA 5692.  It looks like you're using a much bigger tube


----------



## blackdragon87

excited to join the club. just got a wa3 on ebay last week. probably will receive it in a few weeks. ordered it for use with my zmfs


----------



## Bonddam

blackdragon87 said:


> excited to join the club. just got a wa3 on ebay last week. probably will receive it in a few weeks. ordered it for use with my zmfs


should have contacting me I could have smuggled it through my reservation for a smugglers fee much cheaper then those custom charges.


----------



## Chianti

Ciggavelli said:


> Nice!  What tubes are you using with the 3ES for the 6SN7s?  I have the NOS RCA 5692.  It looks like you're using a much bigger tube


Good catch, those are not the tubes you should be using  Amp still sitting in the corner waiting for SR-X 9000, I only tested it briefly as preamp (stock tubes) with great first impression; upgrade tubes should arrive later this week -- unfortunately still no Stax in sight (was supposed to be here late October ...). Looks like I am in a similar situation as Ciggavelli - another reason to be grateful to have the WA33 as a backup


----------



## bpiotrow13

Bonddam said:


> should have contacting me I could have smuggled it through my reservation for a smugglers fee much cheaper then those custom charges.


I also have wa3 for sale


----------



## Bonddam

bpiotrow13 said:


> I also have wa3 for sale


poland is too far away for my cousins. lol They had some ways to smuggle using the boarder patrol to get by or just take a 5-10 minute boat ride from US reserve to the Canadian side reserve. I just found out I have French Canadian blood from great great great grandpa. Be cool to see who my French Canadian relatives are.


----------



## Bonddam (Dec 13, 2021)

I'm finding the gen 1 WA5 LE to have no problems with NOS tubes like my gen 2 had. Only thing I don't have is power of 8 watts which isn't nessacary with the Diana TC and 1266 TC. Instead I switch those headphones to the Hi Z output and they sound good. I do have a desire to still get he gen 2 again and keep this one as my bed room amp. I have some driver tubes that had noise problems on the gen 2 even a ken rad making static popping noise. The Ken Rad static pops only lasted for short time on the gen 1 and now gone. Maybe wait and see if Woo comes out with a new amp to get released and just stick with WA5 gen 1 that I have. So the Lo Z on the two Abyss headphones gives me distortion when raising the volume past certain point and it is targeted at higher frequencies. Does anyone know why I have to use Hi Z?


----------



## jonathan c

~ The Woo Audio WA2 amplifier / ZMF headphone pairing continues to be my compass for navigating the Straits of Musicalia.
~ On this voyage, the rectifiers are RFT EZ81 (foil getter), the powers are GEC CV2984, the drivers are Valvo E88CC. The RFT ECC81 (foil getter) are on shore leave at the last port-of-call. The Eikon is the headphone bowsprit on this tour.
~ ⚓️ away...all heads on deck…🎼🎶


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> Maybe wait for the new amp to get released.


Which is?


----------



## Barnstormer13

Gratuitous Woo picture for the thread


----------



## bpiotrow13

Barnstormer13 said:


> Gratuitous Woo picture for the thread


Super i miss my wa6se


----------



## Bonddam

joseph69 said:


> Which is?


Don’t know I’m sure one is coming out


----------



## bfreedma

Bonddam said:


> Don’t know I’m sure one is coming out



Are you just speculating, or is this based on specific knowledge?


----------



## jonathan c

Barnstormer13 said:


> Gratuitous Woo picture for the thread


A black one approaching _chez moi…🤪_


----------



## jonathan c

And here it is…swingin’ already!…


----------



## arftech

How does the Utopia pair with a WA5 LE 2nd edition?


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Dec 14, 2021)

miss posted


----------



## musicman59

Bonddam said:


> I'm finding the gen 1 WA5 LE to have no problems with NOS tubes like my gen 2 had. Only thing I don't have is power of 8 watts which isn't nessacary with the Diana TC and 1266 TC. Instead I switch those headphones to the Hi Z output and they sound good. I do have a desire to still get he gen 2 again and keep this one as my bed room amp. I have some driver tubes that had noise problems on the gen 2 even a ken rad making static popping noise. The Ken Rad static pops only lasted for short time on the gen 1 and now gone. Maybe wait and see if Woo comes out with a new amp to get released and just stick with WA5 gen 1 that I have. So the Lo Z on the two Abyss headphones gives me distortion when raising the volume past certain point and it is targeted at higher frequencies. Does anyone know why I have to use Hi Z?


I also used the Hi Z with more difficult to drive headphones (like the original HE-6) when I had the WA5-LE v1.

I think it has more current out the Hi Z which helps with those difficult to drive headphones.


----------



## bpiotrow13

jonathan c said:


> And here it is…swingin’ already!…



Jonathan, how would You compare Your wa6se to wa2? (soundstage warmth, imagining)?


----------



## cddc

musicman59 said:


> I also used the Hi Z with more difficult to drive headphones (like the original HE-6) when I had the WA5-LE v1.
> 
> I think it has more current out the Hi Z which helps with those difficult to drive headphones.




I don't know how WA5 LE V1 is designed, but it sounds pretty weird to me as to use high Z on planars.

Normally High Z is designed for high impedance headphones (such as dynamic cans), and it provides higher voltage lower current. And normally Low Z is for low impedance headphones (such as planars), and lower voltage higher current.


----------



## Bonddam

cddc said:


> I don't know how WA5 LE V1 is designed, but it sounds pretty weird to me as to use high Z on planars.
> 
> Normally High Z is designed for high impedance headphones (such as dynamic cans), and it provides higher voltage lower current. And normally Low Z is for low impedance headphones (such as planars), and lower voltage higher current.


The WA5 le gen 1 is then strange. If I plug my LCD 5 in you hear some noise. But lo z is what I use with LCD 5


----------



## cddc

Sounds quite strange, at least to me...

One possibility is that as current increases some component or the design itself creates some noise. So if you switch to Hi Z, output current reduces and noise disappears. But this is not an ideal situation, ideally planar should use the low Z setting.


----------



## pippen99

cddc said:


> But this is not an ideal situation, ideally planar should use the low Z setting.


The LCD-4 is 200 ohms.  When I had my gen 1 WA5 I used high Z and the same setting on my WA33.


----------



## cddc

pippen99 said:


> The LCD-4 is 200 ohms.  When I had my gen 1 WA5 I used high Z and the same setting on my WA33.




200 ohms is no longer typical planars, this impedance has crossed into the dynamic headphones category. So using high Z on this one is no problem.


----------



## jonathan c

pippen99 said:


> The LCD-4 is 200 ohms.  When I had my gen 1 WA5 I used high Z and the same setting on my WA33.


I really enjoy the LCD-4 driven by WA2…🎼🎵


----------



## David222

Opening a bottle of Zalytron with dinner tonight...


----------



## jonathan c

David222 said:


> Opening a bottle of Zalytron with dinner tonight...


Ummm…..it looks like two bottles….


----------



## David222

jonathan c said:


> Ummm…..it looks like two bottles….


----------



## KIM JOO WAN (Dec 21, 2021)

WA234 is an incredible amplifier. The level is different from other amplifiers.


----------



## ThanatosVI

KIM JOO WAN said:


> WA234 is an incredible amplifier. The level is different from other amplifiers.


That tube switching key is an amazing idea. 
2A3 and 300B Support in one amp is cool.


----------



## KIM JOO WAN

ThanatosVI said:


> That tube switching key is an amazing idea.
> 2A3 and 300B Support in one amp is cool.


I completely agree with you. 
The switching key looks similar, so I'm curious how it works.


----------



## magiccabbage

Happy Christmas everyone. I wonder if anyone know if there is a woo outlet in europe somewhere. I'm thinking of getting the parts upgraded in my wa5 1st gen. Maybe woo dont do that anymore though?


----------



## magiccabbage

Also wondering if these tubes can be used in the WA5? 

https://sophiaelectric.com/collecti...roducts/sophia-electric-blue-glass-6sl7-tubes


----------



## Stereolab42

Well, the upcoming price increases forced my hand and I ordered a new WA5 (full model, black). Was going to wait longer to get back into the tube game but it is what it is. I am familiar with the WA5 sound and don't really want anything more, just the convenience of the additional features on the second gen as compared to the first. I imagine Woo is getting a lot of orders now so I don't expect to see this anytime soon.

(And no magiccabbage, you can't use 6SL7s in the WA5, only 6SN7s, they are electrically different.)


----------



## arftech

Stereolab42 said:


> Well, the upcoming price increases forced my hand and I ordered a new WA5 (full model, black). Was going to wait longer to get back into the tube game but it is what it is. I am familiar with the WA5 sound and don't really want anything more, just the convenience of the additional features on the second gen as compared to the first. I imagine Woo is getting a lot of orders now so I don't expect to see this anytime soon.
> 
> (And no magiccabbage, you can't use 6SL7s in the WA5, only 6SN7s, they are electrically different.)


Looks like they’re only going up on the WA5 and their website is showing the new price.


----------



## Stereolab42

arftech said:


> Looks like they’re only going up on the WA5 and their website is showing the new price.


All of their models are showing "*** New pricing coming January 1st, 2022 ***" and the WA5 price is still the same as it was in August (according to the Wayback Machine).


----------



## arftech (Dec 25, 2021)

What’s throwing me off is the WA5 LE is selling for $3699 at dealers but $3999 on the WOO site.   Is this the new price that takes effect in January?

Never mind I understand what’s going on now.  I guess you can still get it for $3699 from Woo until January.


----------



## Bonddam

So my wa234 in silver is a month out and curious about 13em7 tubes. 
It's strange not to use a driver that is not in new production. I hope there's an over abundance of this tube type. 

I'm big fan of WA5 LE gen 2 with Mundorf caps and hoping some of the sound character comes across. This will be my main amp for my 1266 TC. 

Had the Elite but was more satisfied with the 300b sound of WA5 LE.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> So my wa234 in silver is a month out and curious about 13em7 tubes.
> It's strange not to use a driver that is not in new production. I hope there's an over abundance of this tube type.
> 
> I'm big fan of WA5 LE gen 2 with Mundorf caps and hoping some of the sound character comes across. This will be my main amp for my 1266 TC.
> ...


You go through amps like crazy


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, I’ve been thinking about the Mundorf caps in tube amps. For PSUs and Streamers with Mundorf caps, they say to leave the units on all the time (I’ve been instructed to do that for my DC4s and K50, which both have Mundorf caps). This is because it takes months of continuous use for them to burn in, and once you turn the unit off, it takes days for the Mundorf caps to re-stabilize. So, what does that mean for the Mundorf caps in our tube amps, which can’t be left on 24/7?


----------



## Bonddam

Ciggavelli said:


> So, I’ve been thinking about the Mundorf caps in tube amps. For PSUs and Streamers with Mundorf caps, they say to leave the units on all the time (I’ve been instructed to do that for my DC4s and K50, which both have Mundorf caps). This is because it takes months of continuous use for them to burn in, and once you turn the unit off, it takes days for the Mundorf caps to re-stabilize. So, what does that mean for the Mundorf caps in our tube amps, which can’t be left on 24/7?


Means your Elite will never fully break in.


----------



## Bonddam

Ciggavelli said:


> You go through amps like crazy


This is my last amp plus the Little Dot 300B tube amp I bought.


----------



## jonathan c

Bonddam said:


> This is my last amp plus the Little Dot 300B tube amp I bought.


Until the next purchase…


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Just joined the ranks - ordered a WA6-SE (Gen 2) in silver with upgraded tubes.  Should be here in a month.  Now to go find a DAC to match it up...


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Just joined the ranks - ordered a WA6-SE (Gen 2) in silver with upgraded tubes.  Should be here in a month.  Now to go find a DAC to match it up...


Nice…do you have a DAC price limit…?…For one that is R2R, non-over-sampling, and doesn’t cost four appendages…I suggest the Denafrips Ares II.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Nice…do you have a DAC price limit…?…For one that is R2R, non-over-sampling, and doesn’t cost four appendages…I suggest the Denafrips Ares II.


Price limit is subjective - I don't mind paying for quality, but don't want to spend $5,000 to feed a $1,300 amp.  Let's stay under $1,500 +/- for now.


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Price limit is subjective - I don't mind paying for quality, but don't want to spend $5,000 to feed a $1,300 amp.  Let's stay under $1,500 +/- for now.


FYI, the Ares II is roughly $800 USD.


----------



## Bonddam (Dec 31, 2021)

Edit.


----------



## Bonddam

ColSaulTigh said:


> Just joined the ranks - ordered a WA6-SE (Gen 2) in silver with upgraded tubes.  Should be here in a month.  Now to go find a DAC to match it up...


Being it's single ended amp look at Chord Qutest. I own one and pretty happy with it's performance


----------



## CAJames

jonathan c said:


> FYI, the Ares II is roughly $800 USD.


 +1. I'd recommend something in the Denafrips line. Seems like everyone I know that owns one thinks it is a winner for price/performance.


----------



## exchez

ColSaulTigh said:


> Just joined the ranks - ordered a WA6-SE (Gen 2) in silver with upgraded tubes.  Should be here in a month.  Now to go find a DAC to match it up...


I'm very happy with my Bifrost 2 and WA2. I've heard only good things about the Qutest.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

CAJames said:


> +1. I'd recommend something in the Denafrips line. Seems like everyone I know that owns one thinks it is a winner for price/performance.


There's one in the classifieds I've got an inquiry into.  I don't mind investing a little more for something that I can grow with, but finding a deal isn't a bad thing, is it?


----------



## David222

ColSaulTigh said:


> There's one in the classifieds I've got an inquiry into.  I don't mind investing a little more for something that I can grow with, but finding a deal isn't a bad thing, is it?



You really can't go wrong with any of the DACs that have been suggested here. I have a Qutest paired to WA6 and find it to be excellent.  

Just keep in mind, since you're new to both AMP + DAC...there's a good chance a year from now that you decide to move in a different direction with some component in your chain... based on an ever evolving sound signature preference. 

Just my $0.02 --> be mindful not to over-invest (too early) until you have line-of-sight on your longer term sound preferences. The gear won't lose its value (most likely)...its more so about avoiding frustrations and maximizing return on (sound) investment.


----------



## euter

Hello Woo Audio fans!  I’m decided to sell my Woo Wa2 with great tubes:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/woo-audio-wa2-tube-amp-otl-upgraded-tubes.16914/


----------



## BananaCarnage

DianaTC's with WA22 Gen-2. 
I've been searching this thread and haven't come up with anyone running the new Abyss Diana TC's with the WA22. Even with upgraded power tubes (still waiting the 5998) it seems pretty underpowered. I didn't realize the Diana TC's were so power hungry, for some reason I was under the impression they were easy to drive. 

Have the Ferrum stack on the way and intending to use the WA22 as a pre into the Ferrum to see if it can drive these appropriately. 

WA22 + 800S is great though . Nice to meet all of you!


Roon -> Matrix Sabre 3 -> WA-22 -> Diana TCs


----------



## ucmgr

I had a similar concern although with a different planar. I've had the HD800's being driven by a Woo Audio WA-22 gen1 and sold that because of lack of use. I missed the Woo Audio sound and ended up with a WA-6SE, which I thought was great combination, but missed the ability to run balanced. I ended up buying a WA-22 gen2 and love it driving the HD800's. Thought I would like to try a pair of planars so I bought a pair of Audeze LCD-3's. There is no question I believe that planars in general require more power than dynamic headphones do. I bet I had to turn the volume control to 1-2 o'clock for the Audeze's vs 9-10 on the Senns. I sold the LCD-3's and just bought some LCD-4's. These seem to be a little more efficient and I'm guessing the only downside of them requiring more juice is that I end up running the tubes a little harder than with the HD800's. Only time will tell, but I really enjoy the differences between the two pairs of headphones.


----------



## BananaCarnage

I have the Ferrum stack coming on wed and planning to run the WA-22 as a preamp into it, I'll see where that takes me. I am almost at the point where I should have bought the WA-33 instead.


----------



## ucmgr

I believe you could easily sell your Wa-22. There are very few preowned ones available. Big difference in $$ but you're the only one who can rationalize that investment. I wonder myself if I were to move on from the WA-22 where I would go next?


----------



## attmci (Jan 16, 2022)

The WA-22 tube amp is not $$ friendly. You have to spend a lot of $$ on the tubes (more than 1/2 of the current price of the amp) to drive it. If you want to roll some tubes, it will cost a lot more $$ (than the cost of the amp itself). Just my 2c.


----------



## ucmgr

I'd hate to admit how much I've spent on tubes since I bought it. Realistically, there are quite a few reasonably priced tubes that do a very good job. Depending on how much you want to spend to get the last 10% of improvement, it can get quite pricey. I'm almost afraid to use some of the high dollar tubes I've bought because I want them to last forever.


----------



## BananaCarnage

Have some 5998s on the way! I did pick up some new drivers and a rectifier.


----------



## ucmgr

5998's are great tubes, you'll enjoy them. I think they make a bigger difference than a high dollar, well rated rectifier


----------



## BananaCarnage

ucmgr said:


> 5998's are great tubes, you'll enjoy them. I think they make a bigger difference than a high dollar, well rated rectifier


So you think that’s true even when used as a pre-amp?


----------



## ucmgr

I really can't answer that question because I only used my WA-22 as a pre-amp while I was having my Janus pre-amp in for servicing. Personally, I wouldn't buy the Wa-22 for use as a pre-amp. It does ok, but there's too many other options that are probably better choices


----------



## arftech

My goodness the WA5LE went up $800! 😳


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I'm officially a member of the "Woo Crew" now!

Woohoo!!!!

(Or is that "WooWoo!")


----------



## arftech

ColSaulTigh said:


> I'm officially a member of the "Woo Crew" now!
> 
> Woohoo!!!!
> 
> (Or is that "WooWoo!")


Congratulations…what you get?


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Jan 17, 2022)

arftech said:


> Congratulations…what you get?


WA6-SE Gen 2.

I'll be setting it up and getting it set up shortly.


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> WA6-SE Gen 2.
> 
> I'll be ironing it up and getting it set up shortly.


Ironing it?…Is it wrinkled? 🤔


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Ironing it?…Is it wrinkled? 🤔


Serves me right for not proofreading...I meant "setting".


----------



## BananaCarnage

New tubes for it or running stock for now?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Stock rectified (Sofia backorders, USAF 596 coming from eBay (adapter coming from Woo, because, um, Woo?).

Power tubes upgraded to 13EM7's from Woo (Westinghouse).  I'll start reading the tube rolling threads for others to play with.

First impressions:  Very well packed, no complaints.  Arrived 2 days ahead of estimated delivery date from FedEx.  I am a bit disappointed they were delayed so long for the silver unit, but basic black is fine.

Very well crafted, these units feel very substantial.  The umbilical cord is much shorter than I imagined, but that makes cable management easier.

Listening through my Focal Clear MG's (55Ω) with cheap silver/copper Lutz cable (high impedance jack).  Using my Douk P1 as a DAC from my PC USB (because my SMSL VMV D1SE is somewhere in China, apparently).  EQ is off.

Boston - "More Than A Feeling" is clean, precise, and very "70's Rock" thick.  Nice.  Cymbals are a touch suppressed.  "Hitch a Ride" is strong, close, but slightly hollow.  Turning the EQ on and off illustrates what I don't like about these headphones (they're very clinical).

Usher - "Yeah!" has plenty of bass, but again, it's a bit thick and not quite defined.  Highs don't "sparkle".  This is a very "tubey" amp/tube combo, that's for sure.

John Williams and the London Philharmonic Orchestra - "Star Wars - Main Theme" sounds big and wide as it should, a better recording would serve this better, I think.  The harp and triangle are a bit buried.  "The Throne Room" is impactful.  The brass really sings here.  "The Imperial March" sounds better - the orchestra is placed correctly.

General take - very, very warm and thick, this is a lot more of what I was looking for.  I'll try the Sennheiser HD8XX's tomorrow night for comparison.  In the meantime, any suggestions?

Also, there's a very slight buzz, which I attribute to my cheap power cord, cheap DAC, and lack of burn-in.  I assume that'll go away?


----------



## David222

jonathan c said:


> Ironing it?…Is it wrinkled? 🤔



Better check the manual....I'm pretty sure it's dry-clean only


----------



## jonathan c

Do you have any power conditioning etc in your system? I am also a happy owner of a WA6SE (Gen 2) in black. Absolutely _no_ issues with buzz, hum, or other extraneous noise.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Do you have any power conditioning etc in your system? I am also a happy owner of a WA6SE (Gen 2) in black. Absolutely _no_ issues with buzz, hum, or other extraneous noise.


No power conditioning yet.  I'll be getting something soon - just need to do some research.  I was a Panamax guy years ago, but haven't really paid too much attention in recent years.  I have a nice APC tucked away in storage somewhere, but that's more surge protection than conditioning.  I do have a shielded A/C cable coming from Amazon.


----------



## BananaCarnage

FWIW I get a small buzz with volume off on single ended cable info wa-22 with senn 800s’s. With Diana tc xlr cable no buzz. Buzz does seem to go away after tubes warm. I do have power conditioner and audio quest power cable and interconnects.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

BananaCarnage said:


> FWIW I get a small buzz with volume off on single ended cable info wa-22 with senn 800s’s. With Diana tc xlr cable no buzz. Buzz does seem to go away after tubes warm. I do have power conditioner and audio quest power cable and interconnects.


I've got the AudioQuest "Golden Gate" interconnects.  Monosaudio A/C cable from Amazon is incoming.  I think I'll go dig my APC out of storage before I start investing in power conditioners.


----------



## ucmgr

you go boy!!


----------



## ucmgr

Congrats!!


----------



## Stereolab42

New WA5 was built much faster than I thought. Covid destroyed me this week so I haven't gotten around to pulling my big tube collection back down from the attic yet, so I'm just running on the stocks for now. It sounds identical to my old 1st-gen in all regards, which is exactly what I wanted and expected, since it's substantially the same design. The convenience of the additional gain controls and the ability to use the XLR for all headphones is the big jump over the 1st-gen for me.


----------



## arftech

Stereolab42 said:


> New WA5 was built much faster than I thought. Covid destroyed me this week so I haven't gotten around to pulling my big tube collection back down from the attic yet, so I'm just running on the stocks for now. It sounds identical to my old 1st-gen in all regards, which is exactly what I wanted and expected, since it's substantially the same design. The convenience of the additional gain controls and the ability to use the XLR for all headphones is the big jump over the 1st-gen for me.


Nice!  Did you beat the price increas?


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Stereolab42 said:


> New WA5 was built much faster than I thought. Covid destroyed me this week so I haven't gotten around to pulling my big tube collection back down from the attic yet, so I'm just running on the stocks for now. It sounds identical to my old 1st-gen in all regards, which is exactly what I wanted and expected, since it's substantially the same design. The convenience of the additional gain controls and the ability to use the XLR for all headphones is the big jump over the 1st-gen for me.


How's the TC + WA5 pairing?


----------



## lumdicks

WA22 with Mullard GZ34 Metal Base, Marconi B65 and GEC6080. The all metal combo is having neutral tonality, great soundstage, dark background and amazing dynamics and resolution.


----------



## Stereolab42

arftech said:


> Nice!  Did you beat the price increas?


Yes, that's why I ordered in late December, as soon as I heard about the increase.



Nicolas Yance said:


> How's the TC + WA5 pairing?


Always fantastic. Abyss+WA5 has been a classic pairing ever since the Abyss has been released.


----------



## Bonddam

Just put my final payment on my silver WA234  and is going into qc. I was lucky only waited month and half because the silver chassi was in stock. Mine will have input two without volume control so I can use a preamp and cut it down to one volume control. I wish I could have use of my collection of 6sn7 tubes since I bought expensive set of Ken Rad military with black and chrome bottles 6sn7gt vt231. Now I want a WA5 LE with mundorf caps to use them call me crazy.


----------



## ucmgr

Do you have any 6sn7gt's you want to sell since you can't use them?


----------



## Barnstormer13

ColSaulTigh said:


> Stock rectified (Sofia backorders, USAF 596 coming from eBay (adapter coming from Woo, because, um, Woo?).
> 
> Power tubes upgraded to 13EM7's from Woo (Westinghouse).  I'll start reading the tube rolling threads for others to play with.
> 
> ...


My experience with the OG Clear is that it wasn’t a good match to the 6SE. The bass was too big and loose (which I think is part of the reason the treble feels a little light to you). The Focal / Drop ELEX was much better, probably thanks to being higher impedance.


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 22, 2022)

My experience with the Clear OG is that the WA6SE is a _great_ match - rectifier is Mullard CV593, drivers are RCA 13DE7, cable is Norne Audio Vykari, earpads are Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin. The FR spectrum is in the right proportion with bloom, control, force, and heft. Dynamics abound! Use the low impedance socket (right side).


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> My experience with the Clear OG is that the WA6SE is a _great_ match - rectifier is Mullard CV593, drivers are RCA 13DE7, cable is Norne Audio Vykari, earpads are Dekoni fenestrated sheepskin. The FR spectrum is in the right proportion with bloom, control, force, and heft. Dynamics abound! Use the low impedance socket (right side).


I may invest in a better cable for the Clear Mg - I bought a no-name "upgraded" silver/copper combo from Amazon.  Vast improvement over stock, but my god are they bright and biting.  Even with my USAF 596, which is thick and toasty, they're still almost shrill unless I hit them with a heavy EQ setting.


----------



## Bonddam

Came today easy setup. Input 2 bypass the amps volume controls so I can use my own pre amp. Not too difficult to even out the two amps by their volume even though they aren't attenuators. 

Big improvement over WA5. I don't get how no gain is needed like the other amps.


----------



## galveston22

I noticed Woo jacked up their prices lately


----------



## ThanatosVI

galveston22 said:


> I noticed Woo jacked up their prices lately


Everyone has.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

galveston22 said:


> I noticed Woo jacked up their prices lately


That was announced on their website at the end of last year.  It's the main reason I ordered my WA6-SE Gen 2 on New Year's Eve....


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> Came today easy setup. Input 2 bypass the amps volume controls so I can use my own pre amp. Not too difficult to even out the two amps by their volume even though they aren't attenuators.
> 
> Big improvement over WA5. I don't get how no gain is needed like the other amps.


Big congratulations!
They look awesome in silver. Enjoy!


----------



## Bonddam (Jan 29, 2022)

galveston22 said:


> I noticed Woo jacked up their prices lately


A lot of companies have with inflation on the rise


----------



## Bonddam

Anyone know purpose of cathode vs plate?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

galveston22 said:


> I noticed Woo jacked up their prices lately


It's not just Woo. The price on LCD 3 in Europe went up *800 euros* in the last two years.

In addition to supply-chain woes, people are spending on audio and companies aren't missing out.


----------



## Bonddam (Jan 29, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's not just Woo. The price on LCD 3 in Europe went up *800 euros* in the last two years.
> 
> In addition to supply-chain woes, people are spending on audio and companies aren't missing out.


Blame US for extra 800 still 1945 in US. Wonder if I’ll get my Perun Rock from Russia🤨


----------



## Stereolab42

Bonddam said:


> Anyone know purpose of cathode vs plate?


Gain control, plate gives you more than cathode.


----------



## Barnstormer13

Bonddam said:


> Came today easy setup. Input 2 bypass the amps volume controls so I can use my own pre amp. Not too difficult to even out the two amps by their volume even though they aren't attenuators.
> 
> Big improvement over WA5. I don't get how no gain is needed like the other amps.


You don’t see those every day. Congrats on a beautiful pair of amps.


----------



## David222

Curious if anyone is (or has) running a Qutest with WA6 ?


----------



## mab1376

Does anyone know if Woo will offer any show discounts at NYC can jam?

I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a WA22, but I'm holding off to talk to them at the show.


----------



## u2u2

David222 said:


> Curious if anyone is (or has) running a Qutest with WA6 ?


I have and it is not a great pairing unless you have a means of volume control by way of a pre amp (this is beautiful) or software (not so good IMHO). Setting Qutest to 1 volt output helps but Qutest does its best at three. WA6 sounds it’s best with volume set around 1200 up to 1300. Not easy with the Chord. I expect the new Mojo 2 would be an outstanding pairing…


----------



## u2u2

mab1376 said:


> Does anyone know if Woo will offer any show discounts at NYC can jam?
> 
> I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a WA22, but I'm holding off to talk to them at the show.


Don’t known if they do this close to their home base but when they travel they sell the show pieces off at a reasonable discount. Been there and done that - a win all around. Get there early as they sell fast. If you strike a deal pick the unit up near end of show and enjoy!


----------



## vlach

u2u2 said:


> I have and it is not a great pairing unless you have a means of volume control by way of a pre amp (this is beautiful) or software (not so good IMHO). Setting Qutest to 1 volt output helps but Qutest does its best at three. WA6 sounds it’s best with volume set around 1200 up to 1300. Not easy with the Chord. I expect the new Mojo 2 would be an outstanding pairing…


Can the Qutest be set to 2V? That would seem ideal for most applications.


----------



## u2u2

vlach said:


> Can the Qutest be set to 2V? That would seem ideal for most applications.


Yes, in fact I now leave mine set there because I have a Chord Anni and 2 volts is the maximum input allowed. Check your manual for setting it but the gist of it is during the power on startup cycle press both balls, together repeatedly, until they glow green. At that point you are set to two volts…  From there you can forget it because Qutest holds the last setting you gave it for voltage output.


----------



## David222

u2u2 said:


> I have and it is not a great pairing unless you have a means of volume control by way of a pre amp (this is beautiful) or software (not so good IMHO). Setting Qutest to 1 volt output helps but Qutest does its best at three. WA6 sounds it’s best with volume set around 1200 up to 1300. Not easy with the Chord. I expect the new Mojo 2 would be an outstanding pairing…



I'm not totally following your post.  Isn't the default output 2V on Qutest?

What do you find the advantage of lowering to 1V (with WA6) ?


----------



## David222

mab1376 said:


> Does anyone know if Woo will offer any show discounts at NYC can jam?
> 
> I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a WA22, but I'm holding off to talk to them at the show.



I believe they just raised their prices -- so unlikely they will discount so soon after.


----------



## ThanatosVI

David222 said:


> I believe they just raised their prices -- so unlikely they will discount so soon after.


I don't think this applies, if they have a local Show discount that is to a very limited audience.

However the discounted units might be more expensive than in the past


----------



## jonathan c

David222 said:


> I'm not totally following your post.  Isn't the default output 2V on Qutest?
> 
> What do you find the advantage of lowering to 1V (with WA6) ?


The only advantage that I can think of is the ability (need) to turn the volume knob further clockwise. On some h/p/a, this mitigates / eliminates the chance of channel volume imbalance. (I have never had this issue with any Woo h/p/a.)


----------



## David222 (Feb 4, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> The only advantage that I can think of is the ability (need) to turn the volume knob further clockwise. On some h/p/a, this mitigates / eliminates the chance of channel volume imbalance. (I have never had this issue with any Woo h/p/a.)



That makes sense for harder to drive planar...I've actually never needed to go past ~2 o'clock with WA6

Was just curious if anyone has used the Qutest (or other DAC) at 3V output into the WA6 (vs default 2V Qutest) and what, if any, sound impact that might have.


----------



## u2u2

David222 said:


> I'm not totally following your post.  Isn't the default output 2V on Qutest?
> 
> What do you find the advantage of lowering to 1V (with WA6) ?


I don’t remember what mine was set to when new out of the box.
The default, as such, it what it was last set to during a previous startup cycle be it at the factory or by the user. 
Here is an excerpt from the manual:






I have used mine with several amps and the selected voltage has an impact on the sound quality depending on the characteristics of the amp and how it was designed… Headphones matter, and with a tube amp the tubes matter especially as they impact the power output. I roll tubes on my Woo amps and the tubes I like don’t play well with my Qutest. With all three tube amps I use 1 volt output isn’t very satisfying, 2 is decent for sound quality but volume issues are bad, 3 too much although some tracks are ok, with added volume issues. 3 into an active or passive pre amp can give some amazing results depending… I use  Woo WA6, Woo WA22, and McIntosh MHA200. The bare Qutest is a challenge on all three but most so on the WA22 as the most powerful, and the MHA200 with a challenging volume/gain POT. I would not recommend a Qutest direct on any of the three as you have to use a lower input voltage which sacrifices sound quality. Using 2 or 3 volts leaves you dealing with a volume control POT turned almost off and a narrow range of use before the volume is too high. There is a real hearing safety issue as well if you fail to zero the volume on startup. Aside from that being a PITA sound quality again suffers. I find my Woo do their best with the volume at 1200-1300 but the source has to be right. A bare  Qutest, in my experience, is a poor match. I now use two pre amps in my setups in part due to trying to fit my Qutest into the chain. I bought a Chord Anni specifically to get quality use from the Qutest. You might find satisfaction with a Qutest / WA6 pairing and the right tubes, headphones etc. I was unable to do so and wouldn’t recommend the pairing. Also, my Woo amps are both first generation in case that comes into play. A long convoluted answer, totally unscientific, but it is what it is. Hope it helps.


----------



## David222




----------



## vlach

u2u2 said:


> 2 is decent for sound quality but volume issues are bad


What are the volume issues at 2V?


----------



## blackdragon87

Just received a wa 3. Is it best to turn the amp on with headphones plugged in first? Or should I turn the amp on and left tubes warm up bit and then plug in

Thanks


----------



## Odin412

blackdragon87 said:


> Just received a wa 3. Is it best to turn the amp on with headphones plugged in first? Or should I turn the amp on and left tubes warm up bit and then plug in
> 
> Thanks


I turn mine on without headphones plugged in and then plug them in after a short while. I've also read that since it's an OTL amp you shouldn't leave it turned on without headphones plugged in.


----------



## u2u2

vlach said:


> What are the volume issues at 2V?


Very narrow range of useable volume. I tried all three voltages this morning. Here is a shot of the volume at 2 volts. Maximum I could tolerate and after 10 minutes I regret trying this pairing again. I knew better from prior tries but… Headphones were Utopia. Max for longer period is about 0730. Full off is 0630. One member who posts on the which ones are you listening with now thread uses this combo and seems happy. Not for me though. Going to insert the McIntosh pre into this chain then the WA6 will really sing.


----------



## vlach

u2u2 said:


> Very narrow range of useable volume. I tried all three voltages this morning. Here is a shot of the volume at 2 volts. Maximum I could tolerate and after 10 minutes I regret trying this pairing again. I knew better from prior tries but… Headphones were Utopia. Max for longer period is about 0730. Full off is 0630. One member who posts on the which ones are you listening with now thread uses this combo and seems happy. Not for me though. Going to insert the McIntosh pre into this chain then the WA6 will really sing.


I find that quite strange because i lived with the Mojo set to 1.9V output, the WA6 and Grado RS2e (99dB sensitivity) for a while and usually had the volume pot around 10:30am.
I'm really scratching my head here...


----------



## mab1376

Ordered the WA22 today finally after eyeing it for close to 10 years. Can't wait to get it up and running. ETA to ship is 3 weeks though... At least I'm not far from them so shipping will be quick!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> Ordered the WA22 today finally after eyeing it for close to 10 years. Can't wait to get it up and running. ETA to ship is 3 weeks though... At least I'm not far from them so shipping will be quick!


Congrats!  I'm really impressed with the build quality of Woo's stuff.  Very solid and sturdy.  This is next-level product.


----------



## ucmgr

Congratulations. You will really enjoy your new WA-22. I'm on my third Woo unit having owned a Wa-22 gen 1, next a WA-6SE, and now a WA-22 gen 2 and loved them all. Save some money between now and when you actually receive it because I promise you that you'll want to buy some tubes. Go slow because I went crazy too early! You can break your new unit in with the stock tubes but you will want to see where it can go from stock. Just a word to the wise


----------



## mab1376

ucmgr said:


> Congratulations. You will really enjoy your new WA-22. I'm on my third Woo unit having owned a Wa-22 gen 1, next a WA-6SE, and now a WA-22 gen 2 and loved them all. Save some money between now and when you actually receive it because I promise you that you'll want to buy some tubes. Go slow because I went crazy too early! You can break your new unit in with the stock tubes but you will want to see where it can go from stock. Just a word to the wise


Thanks for the advice. I'm eyeing some 6AS7G power tubes to try, and already have some good PSVANE and RCA 6SN7 tubes already I use on other equipment.

Long term I really want to try and get a pair of 5998, but that seems to be hard to get nowadays.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ucmgr said:


> Congratulations. You will really enjoy your new WA-22. I'm on my third Woo unit having owned a Wa-22 gen 1, next a WA-6SE, and now a WA-22 gen 2 and loved them all. Save some money between now and when you actually receive it because I promise you that you'll want to buy some tubes. Go slow because I went crazy too early! You can break your new unit in with the stock tubes but you will want to see where it can go from stock. Just a word to the wise


Did somebody say "breaking the bank with tubes?"


----------



## ucmgr

Damn, Colonel. That's quite a collection. It doesn't take long to spend a bunch because they're easy to buy if you pay enough!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ucmgr said:


> Damn, Colonel. That's quite a collection. It doesn't take long to spend a bunch because they're easy to buy if you pay enough!


... And true doesn't even include the Emission Labs 5U4G and 274B that are coming.  Plus Woo owes me a Sophia Aqua 274B...


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> ... And true doesn't even include the Emission Labs 5U4G and 274B that are coming.  Plus Woo owes me a Sophia Aqua 274B...


Do rectifiers make a significant difference to you? I ordered a pair of Raytheon 6as7g to try, and have some 6sn7 variants on hand already, but never had an amp with a rectifier tube. I assume it's like going from a switching PSU to a linear one. That USAF one always looked cool to me with the adapter, but no idea what to expect with the change from stock to that.


----------



## Odin412

mab1376 said:


> Do rectifiers make a significant difference to you?


Yes, they do. I can't really explain why, but rectifiers have a significant impact to the sound, at least on my WA6 (and to my ears). In my experience the rectifier influences the sound at least as much as the driver tubes do. YMMV, as always.


----------



## pippen99

I have found the rectifier to have the least impact on my amps(WA5 and WA33 EE).  I would the rate the influence in the following order-driver>power>rectifier.  As stated above YMMV.


----------



## ucmgr

They do. I have or have had a bunch  different rectifiers inc Sophia Princess, GEC U52 Brown Base, USAF 596(sold to buy the GEC U52), a Mullard, a Sylvania, and God knows what else. Talk to Andy at Vintage Tube Services. He's very knowledgeable about tubes in general and Woo amps in particular. It's fun to play around with them because they do make a difference. Hell, all the tubes do so try some different drivers and power tubes along the way. You can probably spend as much on tubes as you did on the amp without a whole lot of trouble


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> Do rectifiers make a significant difference to you? I ordered a pair of Raytheon 6as7g to try, and have some 6sn7 variants on hand already, but never had an amp with a rectifier tube. I assume it's like going from a switching PSU to a linear one. That USAF one always looked cool to me with the adapter, but no idea what to expect with the change from stock to that.


They make a DRAMATIC difference!  IMO, the main sound characteristic that drives the Woo WA6-SE Gen2 is the rectifier.  I have new power tubes coming to test that theory, but there are very clear differences in rectifiers.  For a general example:

*Stock tube: *weak, anemic, flat sound.  No strength to it.  Does not resolve particularly well.
*USAF "Mighty" 596: *Very warm, thick, gooey sound.  Like honey.  Heavy, a bit slow.  Sounds great for rock/jazz/bass-heavy music.  Lacks some resolution, and the top end is weak.
*Sophia Princess 274B (Clear Mesh):* Clean and pure, like mountain water.  It's not transparent, but the color is very even.  Just the right amounts of bass/mids/highs without overexaggerating anything.  Has a full range of sound, evenly distributed.  The perfect all-around tube.  Plus it's beautiful looking to boot!
*KR Audio 274B-HD:* Crisp, analytical, and unfiltered.  Think Seltzer water - the Sophia but without the warmth.  If you want your amp to sound very solid-state-like, this is the tube.  It lacks any color whatsoever.  Plenty of power, it's just flavorless.  It's an amazingly crafted tube - probably the nicest looking from an aesthetic standpoint.
*Brimar NOS 5Z4GY:* This is a nuclear reactor powerhouse tube!  It's exactly what this amp needs - pure, raw power delivered on demand!  It runs VERY hot (you can feel the heat from 2' away), but the sound it puts out is amazing!  Bass is abundant and plentiful, plus it's fast and responsive.  The resolution is amazing - everything resolves purely.  No mud, no goop - this is a full-bodied Cabernet.  For $35 + shipping on eBay, you'd be an idiot to not add one to your collection.  I like this so much I ordered another one just to have a backup.

I'll post thoughts on the others when they arrive.


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColSaulTigh said:


> They make a DRAMATIC difference!  IMO, the main sound characteristic that drives the Woo WA6-SE Gen2 is the rectifier.  I have new power tubes coming to test that theory, but there are very clear differences in rectifiers.  For a general example:
> 
> *Stock tube: *weak, anemic, flat sound.  No strength to it.  Does not resolve particularly well.
> *USAF "Mighty" 596: *Very warm, thick, gooey sound.  Like honey.  Heavy, a bit slow.  Sounds great for rock/jazz/bass-heavy music.  Lacks some resolution, and the top end is weak.
> ...


Very helpful, thank you


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> They make a DRAMATIC difference!  IMO, the main sound characteristic that drives the Woo WA6-SE Gen2 is the rectifier.  I have new power tubes coming to test that theory, but there are very clear differences in rectifiers.  For a general example:
> 
> *Stock tube: *weak, anemic, flat sound.  No strength to it.  Does not resolve particularly well.
> *USAF "Mighty" 596: *Very warm, thick, gooey sound.  Like honey.  Heavy, a bit slow.  Sounds great for rock/jazz/bass-heavy music.  Lacks some resolution, and the top end is weak.
> ...


This one is the cheapest i see: https://www.ebay.com/itm/310653909306


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> This one is the cheapest i see: https://www.ebay.com/itm/310653909306


That's the one.  I probably had €35 in my head.  Anyway, still a deal compared to the others out there.


----------



## the1andonly

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's not just Woo. The price on LCD 3 in Europe went up *800 euros* in the last two years.
> 
> In addition to supply-chain woes, people are spending on audio and companies aren't missing out.


What was the price before the pandemic? I was on a slovenian website for work looking at them for content producers and the prices seemed to be US stock prices but with import fee's like 10%.... TBH thought I thought even Audeze was selling stuff like the LCD-3 a bit lower than MSRP and since pandemic have gone to exactly MSRP IIRC


----------



## gimmeheadroom

the1andonly said:


> What was the price before the pandemic? I was on a slovenian website for work looking at them for content producers and the prices seemed to be US stock prices but with import fee's like 10%.... TBH thought I thought even Audeze was selling stuff like the LCD-3 a bit lower than MSRP and since pandemic have gone to exactly MSRP IIRC


It was 50.000 Kc which is around 2.000 euros but I saw sales at 40.000 Kc which is around 1.600 euros. Now it's 2.400 euros most of the places I see ads.


----------



## mab1376

Does 6su7gty work as drivers with wa22?


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Feb 9, 2022)

What an enjoyable night. All the talk of rectifiers motivated me to dig out one of my older rectifiers (1940s hanging filament RCA I think). I plugged my VC into the high impedance jack and played a bunch of Bach violin solos.  Mesmerizing.

Pic of the tube and WA6-SE in action


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Barnstormer13 said:


> What an enjoyable night. All the talk of rectifiers motivated me to dig out one of my older rectifiers (1940s hanging filament RCA I think). I plugged my VC into the high impedance jack and played a bunch of Bach violin solos.  Mesmerizing.
> 
> Pic of the tube and WA6-SE in action


Alaska, really? Wow!


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's the one.  I probably had €35 in my head.  Anyway, still a deal compared to the others out there.


Ordered one! Should be here before the wa22 arrives.


----------



## u2u2

Barnstormer13 said:


> What an enjoyable night. All the talk of rectifiers motivated me to dig out one of my older rectifiers (1940s hanging filament RCA I think). I plugged my VC into the high impedance jack and played a bunch of Bach violin solos.  Mesmerizing.
> 
> Pic of the tube and WA6-SE in action



I found a sibling from March 1952 hanging around in my WA22. I have better rectifiers, in theory, but in practice this one sees the most on time. Solid performer at an excellent price. Goes well with Sylvania VT-231… Old is good.
Very nice setup you have!


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Feb 9, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Alaska, really? Wow!


It’s not a bad place to live if you don’t like crowds, traffic and standing in line. Anchorage (where I live) has bike / ski trails criss-crossing the city and is small enough that I commute from my home to my office almost entirely via wooded trails.

The picture below is from the coastal trail.







Nearby picture shot this fall:


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Barnstormer13 said:


> It’s not a bad place to live if you don’t like crowds, traffic and standing in line. Anchorage (where I live) has bike / ski trails criss-crossing the city and is small enough that I commute from my home to my office almost entirely via wooded trails.



Oh you don't have to convince me at all. It was always a dream to live in such a beautiful place.


----------



## mab1376

Barnstormer13 said:


> It’s not a bad place to live if you don’t like crowds, traffic and standing in line. Anchorage (where I live) has bike / ski trails criss-crossing the city and is small enough that I commute from my home to my office almost entirely via wooded trails.
> 
> The picture below is from the coastal trail.
> 
> ...


I envy you, I live on long island, and it's getting more crowded by the day.


----------



## ucmgr

Looks beautiful, but cold! I lived all around the great lakes area for most of my adult life but it's sure a whole lot warmer in February in South Carolina!!


----------



## SalR406

mab1376 said:


> I envy you, I live on long island, and it's getting more crowded by the day.


Cheers from a fellow Long Islander.


----------



## jclyle

If anyone is considering selling their WA6 2nd edition, please drop me a line!

I've been watching for one for awhile, but patience is wearing out, and I don't want to buy new


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Feb 10, 2022)

ucmgr said:


> Looks beautiful, but cold! I lived all around the great lakes area for most of my adult life but it's sure a whole lot warmer in February in South Carolina!!


I lived in the “lower 48” for a few years after college. I still miss sitting outside at night totally comfortable in shorts and a T-shirt.  Yesterday was around 10F with sustained winds between 30-40 mph. It kind of sucked.


----------



## CAJames

Barnstormer13 said:


> What an enjoyable night. All the talk of rectifiers motivated me to dig out one of my older rectifiers (1940s hanging filament RCA I think). I plugged my VC into the high impedance jack and played a bunch of Bach violin solos.  Mesmerizing.
> 
> Pic of the tube and WA6-SE in action



I can't tell for sure from your picture but that looks like a single getter 5R4? I spend a little more on a WWII vintage dual getter and really like it a lot in WA22. Like the chocolate fudge ice cream at Baskin Robins back in the day it costs a little more, but worth it.


----------



## ucmgr

Vacuum tubes are amazing things because while they just look like glass, metal plates, and wires, they just do something magical in making music


----------



## Odin412

ucmgr said:


> Vacuum tubes are amazing things because while they just look like glass, metal plates, and wires, they just do something magical in making music


And they do it all while looking cool!


----------



## jonathan c

Odin412 said:


> And they do it all while looking cool!


Try saying that about an op-amp…😏


----------



## leilei787

Guys, does Wa33 have significant improvements over WA5? Or they are just different taste? Thanks


----------



## SalR406

leilei787 said:


> Guys, does Wa33 have significant improvements over WA5? Or they are just different taste? Thanks


I have not owned either, but I've auditioned them both.  They are different animals.  The WA33 is a push-pull design based on 2A3 tubes.  The WA5 is a SET design based on 300B tubes.  Both are very powerful.  They represent different flavors.


----------



## Barnstormer13

CAJames said:


> I can't tell for sure from your picture but that looks like a single getter 5R4? I spend a little more on a WWII vintage dual getter and really like it a lot in WA22. Like the chocolate fudge ice cream at Baskin Robins back in the day it costs a little more, but worth it.


It’s a single getter 5U4G.


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Feb 12, 2022)

I just changed the driver tubes in my WA-SE. The new tubes sound quite a bit better so I’m wondering if maybe I put too many hours on the previous tubes. If I had to guess I’d say they saw more than 1000 hours but less than 1500 hours.  The old ones were Philco 13FD7 fat boys. The new are GE 13DE7s. The 13DE7s just sound clearer and crisper, like a faint veil was lifted. It’s quite an improvement and I’m not used to hearing that with a tube change on the WA6-SE.

I should note that when I first plugged the 13DE7s in they sounded like complete crap and needed an hour or two before they really sounded good. They were clearly in completely unused condition.


----------



## mab1376

Ordered my wa22 a week ago, 2 more weeks to go roughly till it ships!
make. time. go. faster. 

Got some 1957 Raytheon 6AS7Gs to try, and a Brimar 5Z4GY on the way.

For drivers I have PSVANE 6SN7-UK and an old pair of Tung Sol 6SU7GTYs to try.

Can't seem to find my RCA 6SN7GT from when I moved a few months ago.... 😰


----------



## ucmgr

Congratulations. Two more weeks and you'll think time stood still while you're waiting. In the meantime you can do some more research on the amp, tubes to consider, and what liquor to drink when you finally get to enjoy the fruits of your labor!


----------



## David222

mab1376 said:


> Ordered my wa22 a week ago, 2 more weeks to go roughly till it ships!
> *make. time. go. faster.*
> 
> Got some 1957 Raytheon 6AS7Gs to try, and a Brimar 5Z4GY on the way.
> ...



Why wait?  

Just FYI, here are some RCA/Grey Glass... if you can't find your pair.  You may want to email to confirm year, etc. if important to you.


----------



## David222

ucmgr said:


> Congratulations. Two more weeks and you'll think time stood still while you're waiting. In the meantime you can do some more research on the amp, tubes to consider, and *what liquor* to drink when you finally get to enjoy the fruits of your labor!



Whistle Pig, of course.


----------



## ucmgr

You have good taste David!!


----------



## ucmgr

Pardon me, excellent taste!!


----------



## mab1376

Woodford reserve bourbon for me


----------



## ucmgr

ICBM FOR ME...ice cold bombay martini straight up


----------



## Barnstormer13

ucmgr said:


> ICBM FOR ME...ice cold bombay martini straight up


If you like Bombay, try Hendricks gin. I like them both but will take Hendricks if it’s available.


----------



## ucmgr

will do!


----------



## David222

ucmgr said:


> You have good taste David!!



thank you!


----------



## mab1376

Where can I find adapters for 6cg7?


----------



## ucmgr

Try Maximatcher. Just google and see what you need. Haven't use them specifically, but there are probably other sites that offer similar adaptors


----------



## Bonddam

I'm rolling power tubes on my wa234 and went from 300b - 2a3 and like it very much. I need a McIntosh C47 pre.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

In the immortal words of the fine thespian Brittney Spears: "Oops, I did it again!"

WA6-SE Gen 2 #2 incoming - this one in silver!

Y'all had your chance...


----------



## Barnstormer13

ColSaulTigh said:


> In the immortal words of the fine thespian Brittney Spears: "Oops, I did it again!"
> 
> WA6-SE Gen 2 #2 incoming - this one in silver!
> 
> Y'all had your chance...


For some A-B fun or second room?


----------



## ucmgr

You'll enjoy it! It's a lot of amp for the $$


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Barnstormer13 said:


> For some A-B fun or second room?


Eventually it'll go to work with me.  Until then, I'll use it to A-B some things (Purple Fuse, rectifiers, etc.)


----------



## Bonddam

ColSaulTigh said:


> In the immortal words of the fine thespian Brittney Spears: "Oops, I did it again!"
> 
> WA6-SE Gen 2 #2 incoming - this one in silver!
> 
> Y'all had your chance...


I was going to.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ucmgr said:


> You'll enjoy it! It's a lot of amp for the $$


I've already got one.  This deal was too good to pass up.


----------



## jonathan c

Hey @ColSaulTigh, for variety you can have two ‘salt & pepper’ WA6SE s! Silver rectifier section / black power-driver section….🤪


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Hey @ColSaulTigh, for variety you can have two ‘salt & pepper’ WA6SE s! Silver rectifier section / black power-driver section….🤪


Oh no, no, no....my OCD (OCD, OCD, OCD) won't allow that.  I've actually ordered 8 Woo Audio headphone stands just so I can match the amp.

I might have a problem....


----------



## ucmgr

Col, did you buy a new one or the one listed here a few days ago?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ucmgr said:


> Col, did you buy a new one or the one listed here a few days ago?


Assuming you're referring to the amp, I bought the used one from the classifieds.  Deal was too good to pass up - about half the cost of a new one + Sophia Princess 274B....


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> Hey @ColSaulTigh, for variety you can have two ‘salt & pepper’ WA6SE s! Silver rectifier section / black power-driver section….🤪


If you can’t stomach that, you can switch the knobs! Silver on black, black on silver! 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## ucmgr

yes, the wa-6se. I saw the deal and was tempted. I sold my wa6-se for a wa-22 gen2. I had previously owned a wa-22 gen1 and never used it enough. The wa-6se is a great amp and has capabilities, as you know, different than the wa-22. Enjoy!!


----------



## No Deal

Hate to be a bother but can someone offer an opinion on this tube?  I do not recognize the codes on it.  It's too expensive to just trust that it is authentic.   I am still learning.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1251873092...,osub=osub,crd=crd,segname=segname,chnl=mkcid


----------



## exchez

No Deal said:


> Hate to be a bother but can someone offer an opinion on this tube?  I do not recognize the codes on it.  It's too expensive to just trust that it is authentic.   I am still learning.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/125187309295?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=6f8308cec6f24b5a83debfce45b2a878&bu=43161565196&osub=-1~1&crd=20220315172401&segname=11051&sojTags=ch=ch,bu=bu,osub=osub,crd=crd,segname=segname,chnl=mkcid


Hard to fake the domino plates, so it's likely legit. They also look very clean, but personally, I'd like to have some test data for $500.


----------



## No Deal

Thanks.


----------



## No Deal

exchez said:


> Hard to fake the domino plates, so it's likely legit. They also look very clean, but personally, I'd like to have some test data for $500.


Upon further inspection, the following numbers appear on stickers that are on the base of the tubes:

9500/10000/8000

I am assuming that they are telling me about the tube's gain.  I would also guess that the numbers, if correct, are not bad.  Please let me know if I am right.


----------



## exchez

Oh nice. The number is probably either the mutual conductance (Gm) or plate resistance (Rp). Usually it's left triode/right triode/min good or NOS. Without more info it's hard to say how good the really are, but it's a good sign!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Ok, definitely have a problem...


----------



## Ciggavelli

ColSaulTigh said:


> Ok, definitely have a problem...


I just see a well organized headphone collection. I use Woo Audio stands too. I like your setup


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Ciggavelli said:


> I just see a well organized headphone collection. I use Woo Audio stands too. I like your setup


Not quite organized yet - I'm in the process of converting this office into a listening room.  Ordered the leather chair on Saturday, should be here mid-May.  In the meantime, I need to move the printer and some misc. stuff out, tidy up, re-frame the pictures, etc.  By June it'll be a proper relaxation space.

Also, I need to sell off the Room's Audio stands - they are just out of place now...


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Ok, definitely have a problem...


Yes. The computer and printer should be out of there…🧐🤔😅…


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Yes. The computer and printer should be out of there…🧐🤔😅…


The computer needs to stay - it's where I stream Tidal and play my stored files.  The printer is definitely leaving though.


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> The computer needs to stay - it's where I stream Tidal and play my stored files.  The printer is definitely leaving though.


Is it time for an Aurender streamer (for example)?…😜🤔🤪🤣🤣…


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Is it time for an Aurender streamer (for example)?…😜🤔🤪🤣🤣…


No, I do other stuff with the computer - pay the bills, watch some movies/TV, and other things PC's with high-speed internet connections are good for.


----------



## mab1376

Curious, why 2 WA6's?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> Curious, why 2 WA6's?


There was such a good deal on the 2nd in the classifieds I couldn't pass it up.  Eventually, it'll go to the office while the other stays in the house.


----------



## jonathan c

mab1376 said:


> Curious, why 2 WA6's?


A) no WA12; B) mix n match black / silver modules…🤣


----------



## ucmgr

Colonel, the only problem I see is that there are couple stands without any cans!


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Mar 22, 2022)

ucmgr said:


> Colonel, the only problem I see is that there are couple stands without any cans!


The Meze Empyrean are on my head, my Sennheiser 8XX are in the master bedroom, Meze Elite are on the way, should be here by the end of the week, and waiting for the ZMF Atrium release on the 1st.

Wait, I think I need more stands...


----------



## ucmgr

Colonel, you could have your own CanJam. Wow, what a collection of amps and cans! How do you ever get anything done?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ucmgr said:


> Colonel, you could have your own CanJam. Wow, what a collection of amps and cans! How do you ever get anything done?


It's my respite from a very stressful job.


----------



## ucmgr

I bet it is. We all need to unwind after a stressful day and what better way than to strap on some headphones chill out for a while.


----------



## u2u2

ucmgr said:


> Colonel, the only problem I see is that there are couple stands without any cans!


Nope... He has failed to maintain a 1:1 headphone to headphone amp ratio!


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Mar 22, 2022)

u2u2 said:


> Nope... He has failed to maintain a 1:1 headphone to headphone amp ratio!


Don't tempt me...I've been eyeing a Ferrum (just to have something solid-state) as well as an addition to the Woo family.

If it's any consolation, I'm running a 2:1 ratio with rectifiers, though...


----------



## Thaddy

A bit overkill and inconvenient for tube storage and rolling, no?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Thaddy said:


> A bit overkill and inconvenient for tube storage and rolling, no?


Overkill?  I don't know what that means.  I think you're just making up words...

As for convenience, that case has wheels and thus slides neatly under the bed, where the tubes slumber safe and sound.  And out of the way.  I don't swap tubes continuously.  Honestly, I buy a tube, run it for a week or so, then into the "bank" it goes.

Like I said earlier, I think I have a problem...


----------



## Roasty

ColSaulTigh said:


> Don't tempt me...I've been eyeing a Ferrum (just to have something solid-state) as well as an addition to the Woo family.
> 
> If it's any consolation, I'm running a 2:1 ratio with rectifiers, though...



that amp on the side table is precariously perched...! are you looking for an excuse to buy another amp? *grin


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Roasty said:


> that amp on the side table is precariously perched...! are you looking for an excuse to buy another amp? *grin


That bugger is actually pretty damn heavy!  xDuoo TA-30 is the perfect bedside companion - sounds great, fun to tube-roll, never complains about having a headache...


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> That bugger is actually pretty damn heavy!  xDuoo TA-30 is the perfect bedside companion - sounds great, fun to tube-roll, never complains about having a headache...


…and you can switch it off…🤣🤣🤣


----------



## GPJ7

ColSaulTigh said:


> Overkill?  I don't know what that means.  I think you're just making up words...
> 
> As for convenience, that case has wheels and thus slides neatly under the bed, where the tubes slumber safe and sound.  And out of the way.  I don't swap tubes continuously.  Honestly, I buy a tube, run it for a week or so, then into the "bank" it goes.
> 
> Like I said earlier, I think I have a problem...



First, good job on a smart storage solution! Second, you don't need to explain anything to anyone or justify why you do things the way you do.

I like the case and with the price of tubes these days, good protection makes great sense.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> …and you can *turn it on*…🤣🤣🤣


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2022]…😜


----------



## ColSaulTigh

GPJ7 said:


> First, good job on a smart storage solution! Second, you don't need to explain anything to anyone or justify why you do things the way you do.
> 
> I like the case and with the price of tubes these days, good protection makes great sense.


Thanks!  The idea came to me while I was wondering the aisles at my local Harbor Freight.  Combine that with a healthy 25% off coupon and you have the birth of a safe, transportable tube storage system.  Now all I have to do is remember which one to grab during the great Bugaloo....


----------



## GPJ7

A case for your tube heaters and a case for your heater ...... do indeed grab the correct one when SHTF!


----------



## jbua5150

Hey everyone!
I just acquired the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge and noticed that is outputs are quite high.  I also know there are ways to attenuate the gain.  BUT.  What I want to know is will the 9+v from XLR and the 4+v from RCA output harm either my WA6SE or WA22? I feel like it may just have too much gain, and the volume knob may be very sensitive. Is this correct?


----------



## jbua5150

Well.  I fed the full XLR output into the Singxer SA1 on low gain, and it didn’t blow up!  Hehe 🙃. 
I feel like I may be overthinking all this.


----------



## the1andonly

jbua5150 said:


> Well.  I fed the full XLR output into the Singxer SA1 on low gain, and it didn’t blow up!  Hehe 🙃.
> I feel like I may be overthinking all this.


dude line level is 1Vrms.... your not doing it any favors not sure how it's not distorting to all hell or not broken


----------



## the1andonly

if it's a dedicated dac there HAS to be a dedicated pre-amp out, no?


----------



## musicman59

jbua5150 said:


> Hey everyone!
> I just acquired the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge and noticed that is outputs are quite high.  I also know there are ways to attenuate the gain.  BUT.  What I want to know is will the 9+v from XLR and the 4+v from RCA output harm either my WA6SE or WA22? I feel like it may just have too much gain, and the volume knob may be very sensitive. Is this correct?


Hi,
Those voltages seem high for signal output.
According to the manual they should be much lower.


----------



## jbua5150

It 


musicman59 said:


> Hi,
> Those voltages seem high for signal output.
> According to the manual they should be much lower.


says right there. 9.75volts at 0db.  

In my limited experience, you need to turn the “volume” all the way up on dacs that also act as preamps.  

So, unless I either turn the VOLUME down or the INPUT GAIN, the DAC will output over 9 volts.


----------



## musicman59

jbua5150 said:


> It
> 
> says right there. 9.75volts at 0db.
> 
> ...


That says it is the headphones output.

The line level outputs are at line 2 and 3.
Those are the one that should be use to connect to an external headphones amplifier.


----------



## jbua5150

musicman59 said:


> That says it is the headphones output.
> 
> The line level outputs are at line 2 and 3.
> Those are the one that should be use to connect to an external headphones amplifier.


Am I missing something here?

Line 2 on the chart shows XLR output.  
1.2v at -18db 9.75v at 0 db.


----------



## jbua5150

I initially set the trim/gain to -6, but that still seemed a bit hot.  
I’ve set the input trim/gain to -9 and the Brooklyn Bridge is playing quite nicely with the WA6SE via RCA’s.


----------



## musicman59

jbua5150 said:


> Am I missing something here?
> 
> Line 2 on the chart shows XLR output.
> 1.2v at -18db 9.75v at 0 db.


Nope, it was me! I did not see the right portion. I am not use to see two values on the line outputs. Sorry.

You are doing what I thought should be done using the trim to reduce the output voltage.


----------



## jbua5150

musicman59 said:


> You are doing what I thought should be done using the trim to reduce the output voltage.


I am aware of how to offset the higher output voltage via trim and or volume on the DAC.  
My original question still stands.  

Will it damage my Woo Audio tube amplifiers if I feed them the full voltage?

Thanks for taking the time to converse about this!


----------



## musicman59

I think the best is to contact Woo directly.


----------



## pippen99 (Mar 24, 2022)

My DAC has variable ouputs: .2, .6, 2.0, and 6.0v.  When I connected with Mike he suggested 2.0 as 6.0 might cause greater distortion with my WA33.


----------



## jbua5150

musicman59 said:


> I think the best is to contact Woo directly.


I agree.  I'll shoot them an email.  Thanks


----------



## Killerb

hodgjy said:


> Once mine warms up, it sounds wonderful.
> 
> Quote:


One of my 5998 in a WA2 make a very rhythmic clicking during warm up but is perfectly silent and beautiful sounding after warm up.  No arcing visible.  I use a cheap par of headphones plugged in during for a load.  Is this bad for the amp?


----------



## jbua5150

Killerb said:


> One of my 5998 in a WA2 make a very rhythmic clicking during warm up but is perfectly silent and beautiful sounding after warm up.  No arcing visible.  I use a cheap par of headphones plugged in during for a load.  Is this bad for the amp?


Sound normal to me. 
My TS5998 make a bit of “tinkling” noise as they heat. 
Just things getting used to the heat.  
Fun fact: those “tinkling” noises are audible through my headphones.  
That’s why I usually wait a few minutes for tube to heat up before I listen.


----------



## Killerb

jbua5150 said:


> Sound normal to me.
> My TS5998 make a bit of “tinkling” noise as they heat.
> Just things getting used to the heat.
> Fun fact: those “tinkling” noises are audible through my headphones.
> That’s why I usually wait a few minutes for tube to heat up before I listen.


Thanks for the reply. It is an electrical clicking fairly loud not affected by volume. Kina like a card in your bicycle spokes.  I have heard the tinking you referred to on other tubes.  I don't want to toss the tube because it works great when warmed up but don't want to damage other parts of the amp.



No Deal said:


> Hate to be a bother but can someone offer an opinion on this tube?  I do not recognize the codes on it.  It's too expensive to just trust that it is authentic.   I am still learning.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/125187309295?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=6f8308cec6f24b5a83debfce45b2a878&bu=43161565196&osub=-1~1&crd=20220315172401&segname=11051&sojTags=ch=ch,bu=bu,osub=osub,crd=crd,segname=segname,chnl=mkcid


Suggest you look at a tube retailer if you are a first time buyer rather than Ebay.  I bought two matched 5998 tubes a couple of weeks ago from vacuumtubes.net for $150 each.  They were packed professionally in generic boxes and are singing in my WA2.  Email them to check on stock, very helpful and responsive guys and the tubes shipped quickly.


----------



## Thaddy

Killerb said:


> Suggest you look at a tube retailer if you are a first time buyer rather than Ebay.  I bought two matched 5998 tubes a couple of weeks ago from vacuumtubes.net for $150 each.  They were packed professionally in generic boxes and are singing in my WA2.  Email them to check on stock, very helpful and responsive guys and the tubes shipped quickly.


$300 for a pair of bottom getter 5998's is a pretty good price these days.  I picked up a pair for myself


----------



## exchez

Thaddy said:


> $300 for a pair of bottom getter 5998's is a pretty good price these days.  I picked up a pair for myself



Their site just gives a 404 error when I check on 5998s. Is that because they don't have any more?


----------



## Thaddy

exchez said:


> Their site just gives a 404 error when I check on 5998s. Is that because they don't have any more?


I just sent them an email.


----------



## SteveHulk

Just rolled out Psvane CV181T mk II tubes and rolled in Mullard CV181 ('68 vintage, made in Blackburn UK) to my Woo WA5LE and was that night and day or what!

The Mullards are unused except for having been in a tube tester prior to dispatch.

Even right out of the box they trashed the Psvane tubes. Much better detail in the treble and a serious increased extension to the deep bass. A few hours later the treble was already smoothing out and it was clear to me that these tubes even have a lot more to give before they fully run in and top out. 

Last night I ordered a second pair just for backups. I'll never worry about which 6SN7 equivalent tubes to use ever again.

The tubes are available from Audio Antiquary in Italy. https://www.audioantiquary.com/it/mullard-cv181-7470/

These guys are real and serious.


----------



## Killerb

exchez said:


> Their site just gives a 404 error when I check on 5998s. Is that because they don't have any more?


Call them to check stock.


----------



## SteveHulk

SteveHulk said:


> Just rolled out Psvane CV181T mk II tubes and rolled in Mullard CV181 ('68 vintage, made in Blackburn UK) to my Woo WA5LE and was that night and day or what!
> 
> The Mullards are unused except for having been in a tube tester prior to dispatch.
> 
> ...


An update:

The Mullards are running in well. They are presenting a very detailed, sweet sound with excellent bass extension and definition.

But these babies are very very microphonic. Much more so than the Psvanes. I'm using them in a headphone-only system which is in a very quiet room pretty much totally free of vibration so they are fine. 

However for those of you thinking of using these in a loud environment eg in a system with speakers adjacent you'll need to pay lots of attention to vibration isolation. It is possible that these tubes might not even be viable such a setting, which would be a shame.


----------



## Killerb

ColSaulTigh said:


> No power conditioning yet.  I'll be getting something soon - just need to do some research.  I was a Panamax guy years ago, but haven't really paid too much attention in recent years.  I have a nice APC tucked away in storage somewhere, but that's more surge protection than conditioning.  I do have a shielded A/C cable coming from Amazon.


I have the hum on my WA6se Mk2 and it is quite loud with every tube except the stock 13de7 (still hums but not noticeable during play).  I have tried Sennheiser HD580, Hifiman HE400 and Grado GS1000i and the hum is still there.  I have a WA2 that I connected to the same system and it is pretty much dead quiet even with my Grados.  Do you think a higher impedance headphone like Beyerdynamic 600 Ohm might calm the hum?  Does the rectifier have any effect on this sort of noise?


----------



## Designer Tiger (Apr 11, 2022)

Finally become a member of woo audio.
Trying different tubes now.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Killerb said:


> I have the hum on my WA6se Mk2 and it is quite loud with every tube except the stock 13de7 (still hums but not noticeable during play).  I have tried Sennheiser HD580, Hifiman HE400 and Grado GS1000i and the hum is still there.  I have a WA2 that I connected to the same system and it is pretty much dead quiet even with my Grados.  Do you think a higher impedance headphone like Beyerdynamic 600 Ohm might calm the hum?  Does the rectifier have any effect on this sort of noise?


So I've done some experimenting and can now say that BOTH of my Woo WA6-SE Gen 2's are DEAD SILENT.  Here's what I've done:

1) removed my VMV D1SE DAC from the mix and replaced it with (a pair) of Musician Pegasus R2R DAC's.
2) upgraded the power cables to THESE.
3) Upgraded the fuses (My Black Woo has a Synergistic Research Purple fuse, the silver has a generic ceramic fuse from Amazon.  I can't hear the significant difference, but every little bit helps I guess.
4) Everything is plugged into the same power strip, which, in turn, is plugged into an Emotive CMX2 Power Conditioner
5) All interconnects are RCA (World's Best from Amazon).  Same length.
6: Both DAC's have USB feeds coming from my Microsoft Surface Studio PC.  One is direct, the other is through a USB3.0 hub.
7) My Woo Black has a Tara Labs Live/HDX block attached to it.

I'm running a mix of 13EM7 tubes (Westinghouse, Sylvania, International Standard) and various high-end rectifiers (EML 274B Mesh, KR Audio Riccardo Kron 25th Anniversary 5U4G, NOS Tung-Sol 5U4GB)  Everything is DEAD QUIET.

I'm firmly convinced the DACs have something to do with it, but I'm not sure what.


----------



## VanHai (Apr 11, 2022)

Designer Tiger said:


> Finally become a member of woo audio.
> Trying different tubes now.


Welcome to the club.


----------



## VanHai

Designer Tiger said:


> Finally become a member of woo audio.
> Trying different tubes now.


Wow!. What an entrance to the club.


----------



## Designer Tiger

VanHai said:


> Welcome to the club.


Thanks man.


----------



## ucmgr

WOW!! That's quite an entrance to the Woo owners club . Good luck with you tube expedition


----------



## James824 (Apr 12, 2022)

Just added my 2nd Woo.

New WA2 in my main system.  Should be a great match for my HD800.  Arrives end of the week.
Have utilized the headphone out of my D100 for critical listening.  Looking forward to hearing what this bad boy can do.

This amp joins my faithful WA7 (2nd Gen) which has served me well for the last few years in my study.


----------



## Designer Tiger

ucmgr said:


> WOW!! That's quite an entrance to the Woo owners club . Good luck with you tube expedition


Thanks man, so much tubes to learn now.


----------



## ucmgr

I'm not very familiar with your new WA-234 amp, but I'm sure that there be plenty of tubes to experiment with. Best of luck with our new amp. It's beautiful!


----------



## Designer Tiger

ucmgr said:


> I'm not very familiar with your new WA-234 amp, but I'm sure that there be plenty of tubes to experiment with. Best of luck with our new amp. It's beautiful!


Thanks


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 13, 2022)

Designer Tiger said:


> Finally become a member of woo audio.
> Trying different tubes now.


What a beast/s!


----------



## paradoxper

SteveHulk said:


> Just rolled out Psvane CV181T mk II tubes and rolled in Mullard CV181 ('68 vintage, made in Blackburn UK) to my Woo WA5LE and was that night and day or what!
> 
> The Mullards are unused except for having been in a tube tester prior to dispatch.
> 
> ...


They are very nice to deal with although with the Mullard CV181 I still prefer my MELZ 1578.


----------



## paradoxper

Any Woo'er looking to offload a pair of their EML's, let me know please.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> Any Woo'er looking to offload a pair of their EML's, let me know please.


...from my cold, dead hands!

But if you need to order new ones, AudioArt has them (in the US).


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> ...from my cold, dead hands!
> 
> But if you need to order new ones, AudioArt has them (in the US).


Perhaps I missed this. I know Verdant was out of stock. I'll check.

Indeed out of stock.


----------



## paradoxper

Screw it, I picked up pair of the Western Electric instead.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> Perhaps I missed this. I know Verdant was out of stock. I'll check.
> 
> Indeed out of stock.


Yeah, I missed the "out of stock" - I never read past the "add to cart" button....my bad.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Yeah, I missed the "out of stock" - I never read past the "add to cart" button....my bad.


This is the happening in this new world of ours. I'll pick up the EML later on and just spend my 401k on WE. LOL


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> This is the happening in this new world of ours. I'll pick up the EML later on and just spend my 401k on WE. LOL


Buy once, cry once.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Buy once, cry once.


We call it a masochistic personality.


----------



## Killerb

ColSaulTigh said:


> So I've done some experimenting and can now say that BOTH of my Woo WA6-SE Gen 2's are DEAD SILENT.  Here's what I've done:
> 
> 1) removed my VMV D1SE DAC from the mix and replaced it with (a pair) of Musician Pegasus R2R DAC's.
> 2) upgraded the power cables to THESE.
> ...


Thanks for the info.  I disconnected the rca inputs and it is dead quiet even with volume cranked up so I think you are right that there is something up with the input DAC from my NAD or perhaps the preout circuit that doesn't play well with the WA6SE.



James824 said:


> Just added my 2nd Woo.
> 
> New WA2 in my main system.  Should be a great match for my HD800.  Arrives end of the week.
> Have utilized the headphone out of my D100 for critical listening.  Looking forward to hearing what this bad boy can do.
> ...


I have a WA2 and paired it with a Grado GS1000i.  Sounds great.  I too am HD800 curious as far as the pairing and hope to demo various combinations at Canjam Chicago if Woo Audio shows up.  Looking forward to your impressions on the pair.


----------



## James824 (Apr 15, 2022)

Just plugged 'er in this am.

Let the burn in begin.

Gonna get all my chores done asap, so "the boss" let's me have the afternoon and evening bonding with this fine piece of functional art.
Hopefully the evening brings plenty of Bourbon, John Barry, Miles and Bill Evans.

a few hours later - gotta say..even out of the box the synergy between the HD800 and WA2 is remarkable.  As it breaks in and gets better, cannot see ever upgrading  hardware again.
*Support from MIke at Woo has been outstanding, as it has been in the past as well.*  Hulluva company making a helliva product!  
Gotta go, a few more hours of listening are calling.


----------



## ucmgr

Mike at Woo Audio is the best!! Always helpful and always responsive to any communication. That's what makes a good company great...


----------



## DJJEZ

ucmgr said:


> Mike at Woo Audio is the best!! Always helpful and always responsive to any communication. That's what makes a good company great...


Agree. He's great to deal with.


----------



## vlach (Apr 15, 2022)

James824 said:


> Just plugged 'er in this am.
> 
> Let the burn in begin.
> 
> ...


Of all the amps and headphones i own, the HD800/WA2 combo remains my favorite, provided it is fed by a solid DAC.

And since the topic of bourbon came up, i never had better than Smooth Ambler Old Scout Single Barrel 😁


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Woo crew!

Does anyone have any recent experience with the WA5/WA5-LE?  I'm considering it as my next H/P/A (among others).  Will it be a significant upgrade from my WA6-SE's?

Thanks!


----------



## SteveHulk

ColSaulTigh said:


> Woo crew!
> 
> Does anyone have any recent experience with the WA5/WA5-LE?  I'm considering it as my next H/P/A (among others).  Will it be a significant upgrade from my WA6-SE's?
> 
> Thanks!


I have the WA5LE with the upgrades and I love it.

Don't know about the WA6.


----------



## musicman59

I used to own the WA5-LE v1. Never heard the WA6-SE but when I was buying and amplifier I compared the WA5-LE to the WA22 because I was wanting to go fully balanced. Based on what I heard and Jack’s recommendation I picked the WA5-LE over the WA22.

I supposed the v2 is better with more power than the v1 had.


----------



## Designer Tiger

SteveHulk said:


> I have the WA5LE with the upgrades and I love it.
> 
> Don't know about the WA6.


Did you compare the sounds between XLR and RCA on WA5?

I am using XLR balanced cable on my wa234, but I feel the RCA should be better sounding because they should be single end.


----------



## musicman59

Designer Tiger said:


> Did you compare the sounds between XLR and RCA on WA5?
> 
> I am using XLR balanced cable on my wa234, but I feel the RCA should be better sounding because they should be single end.


It should be no difference in sound since the design of the WA5 is single ended not balanced. My bet is that the XLR inputs are just for convenience and not impacting performance.


----------



## Designer Tiger

musicman59 said:


> It should be no difference in sound since the design of the WA5 is single ended not balanced. My bet is that the XLR inputs are just for convenience and not impacting performance.


You're absolute correct, the XLR is just for convenience. I just heard someone else said the sounds are different, the RCA is better.


----------



## SteveHulk

Designer Tiger said:


> Did you compare the sounds between XLR and RCA on WA5?
> 
> I am using XLR balanced cable on my wa234, but I feel the RCA should be better sounding because they should be single end.


I don't have any XLR cables.


----------



## musicman59

Designer Tiger said:


> You're absolute correct, the XLR is just for convenience. I just heard someone else said the sounds are different, the RCA is better.


I bet is just perception or what one want to hear.


----------



## pippen99

It could be the RCA output of your DAC is inferior to the XLR output.  My DAC manufacturer explicitly states that the RCA output is the lesser in quality.


----------



## Designer Tiger

pippen99 said:


> It could be the RCA output of your DAC is inferior to the XLR output.  My DAC manufacturer explicitly states that the RCA output is the lesser in quality.


OK, that make sense.


----------



## musicman59

pippen99 said:


> It could be the RCA output of your DAC is inferior to the XLR output.  My DAC manufacturer explicitly states that the RCA output is the lesser in quality.


Yes, that could be. Mine has a difference in voltage output but not quality.


----------



## jonathan c

musicman59 said:


> Yes, that could be. Mine has a difference in voltage output but not quality.


I think that DAC voltage out via XLR is usually 2x voltage out via RCA.


----------



## musicman59

jonathan c said:


> I think that DAC voltage out via XLR is usually 2x voltage out via RCA.


In most cases you are correct because the negative is the same collage as the positive but with inverse polarity. In my case the XLR outputs have a potentiometer where I can adjust the output voltage.


----------



## OldSkool

@James824 

Happy for you! Yes, the WA2 and HD800 is a perfect match that only gets better as you upgrade the tubes.

My rig sounds best with bourbon, as well. 

Cheers, JC


----------



## jonathan c

Here’s hoping:


----------



## Thaddy

So a WA2 with a separate power supply?


----------



## jonathan c

Indeed! When I compare the WA6 and the WA6SE, using the same rectifier tubes and as similar as possible power/driver tubes, the WA6SE just has so much more “in reserve”. “Heft” in delivery, independent of volume level, is so much greater with the WA6SE than with the WA6 - which I love (roll 6SN7 and 12AT7 tubes therein) and fully intend to keep.


----------



## jonathan c

Vis-a-vis post #41,688: Mike at Woo Audio says that a ‘WA2SE’ is unlikely since the preponderance of h/p are low-impedance. 🤷🏻‍♂️😔…


----------



## ThanatosVI

Woo ES8, coming soon


----------



## Odin412

ThanatosVI said:


> Woo ES8, coming soon


Very nice! I wonder what the price will be?


----------



## jonathan c

🤗 🎼 😊:


----------



## George Chronis

Question about ZMF and WA5-LE (gen 1): I guess I'm supposed to have these (VO, VC or Atrium) in the "high" output, but even with the volume all the way down I have some background noise from the tubes. I am using EML 300B mesh and EML 5U4G mesh with Ken-Rad VT231s. In the "low" output I hear nothing up to 11 o' clock and I listen around 9 o' clock. Am I missing something playing at the low output? I don't think I can tell much difference other than that. The background noise in the high setting is not audible while music is playing of course. I purchased the EMLs new and I probably have 50 hours on them. The Ken-Rads are used in good condition.

I guess nothing abnormal, but because the cans are 300Ω does it really matter if I just play them on low?


----------



## jonathan c

George Chronis said:


> Question about ZMF and WA5-LE (gen 1): I guess I'm supposed to have these (VO, VC or Atrium) in the "high" output, but even with the volume all the way down I have some background noise from the tubes. I am using EML 300B mesh and EML 5U4G mesh with Ken-Rad VT231s. In the "low" output I hear nothing up to 11 o' clock and I listen around 9 o' clock. Am I missing something playing at the low output? I don't think I can tell much difference other than that. The background noise in the high setting is not audible while music is playing of course. I purchased the EMLs new and I probably have 50 hours on them. The Ken-Rads are used in good condition.
> 
> I guess nothing abnormal, but because the cans are 300Ω does it really matter if I just play them on low?


It certainly would not harm the high-impedance headphone. If the background is quieter, use the low impedance output socket. I think that a mismatch might arise were you to use a really low-impedance headphone via the high-impedance output socket.


----------



## musicman59

George Chronis said:


> Question about ZMF and WA5-LE (gen 1): I guess I'm supposed to have these (VO, VC or Atrium) in the "high" output, but even with the volume all the way down I have some background noise from the tubes. I am using EML 300B mesh and EML 5U4G mesh with Ken-Rad VT231s. In the "low" output I hear nothing up to 11 o' clock and I listen around 9 o' clock. Am I missing something playing at the low output? I don't think I can tell much difference other than that. The background noise in the high setting is not audible while music is playing of course. I purchased the EMLs new and I probably have 50 hours on them. The Ken-Rads are used in good condition.
> 
> I guess nothing abnormal, but because the cans are 300Ω does it really matter if I just play them on low?


Under the amplifier handles there is a hole and inside there is a screw for a potentiometers. Have your try adjusting them to see if the noise reduced or goes away?


----------



## George Chronis

musicman59 said:


> Under the amplifier handles there is a hole and inside there is a screw for a potentiometers. Have your try adjusting them to see if the noise reduced or goes away?


I have not. I had read about that, but never touched it. So, with nothing playing, but the headphones connected start adjusting that screw left or right to achieve the lowest noise floor possible?

To be clear: I'm not complaining; love the amp and works great with all my headphones. I was just curious if it's ok to run the 300Ω phones on low and if I'm missing anything. Of course, if there's a way to make noise disappear, I'm all for it  Will give that a shot tonight.


----------



## musicman59

George Chronis said:


> I have not. I had read about that, but never touched it. So, with nothing playing, but the headphones connected start adjusting that screw left or right to achieve the lowest noise floor possible?
> 
> To be clear: I'm not complaining; love the amp and works great with all my headphones. I was just curious if it's ok to run the 300Ω phones on low and if I'm missing anything. Of course, if there's a way to make noise disappear, I'm all for it  Will give that a shot tonight.


Yes, that’s the way to do it.


----------



## George Chronis

musicman59 said:


> Yes, that’s the way to do it.


Ok, I just tried that. I see what you mean. When I adjusting the screws I get more of a "hum" noise and somewhere in the middle there is no hum. They were set fine. The noise I am talking about is more like wind blowing through the earphone and much less prominent than the hum. At the low setting it's dead silent and even at high, it is not audible when music is playing, so I'm not worried


----------



## musicman59

Sounds good. At least you eliminated one variable.


----------



## SteveHulk

George Chronis said:


> Ok, I just tried that. I see what you mean. When I adjusting the screws I get more of a "hum" noise and somewhere in the middle there is no hum. They were set fine. The noise I am talking about is more like wind blowing through the earphone and much less prominent than the hum. At the low setting it's dead silent and even at high, it is not audible when music is playing, so I'm not worried


If you can get some different 6SN7 tubes to swap in I think you should try.

Noise, even if apparently "not audible when music is playing" nevertheless has a very bad effect on sound quality. Your amp should be totally silent when no music is playing.


----------



## George Chronis

SteveHulk said:


> If you can get some different 6SN7 tubes to swap in I think you should try.
> 
> Noise, even if apparently "not audible when music is playing" nevertheless has a very bad effect on sound quality. Your amp should be totally silent when no music is playing.


I have plenty of 6SN7 pairs. I’ll try swapping another one in. Thank you!


----------



## George Chronis

SteveHulk said:


> If you can get some different 6SN7 tubes to swap in I think you should try.
> 
> Noise, even if apparently "not audible when music is playing" nevertheless has a very bad effect on sound quality. Your amp should be totally silent when no music is playing.


Oh, man! I swapped in some Sylvania JAN and it's dead silent now on high all the way to 1 o' clock! These Ken-Rads I had in there are apparently noisy. Should have thought of that before I posted here. Thank you so much!!


----------



## vlach

George Chronis said:


> I was just curious if it's ok to run the 300Ω phones on low and if I'm missing anything.


In theory you would be missing some mid bass. The high impedance output should give you a fuller sound.


----------



## George Chronis

vlach said:


> In theory you would be missing some mid bass. The high impedance output should give you a fuller sound.


I realize this now that I'm running them on high, thank you. The ZMF Atrium works really well with this amp, btw. Need to look for some different pairs of 6SN7 to try now...


----------



## SteveHulk (Apr 21, 2022)

George Chronis said:


> I realize this now that I'm running them on high, thank you. The ZMF Atrium works really well with this amp, btw. Need to look for some different pairs of 6SN7 to try now...


You could look out for some Mullard CV181 that I got from Audio Antiquary in Bologna, Italy.

Before them I was running the Psvane CV181T mk II. Those were good, very quiet, low microphonics, but the sound was competent rather than fully engaging.

With the Mullards (made in Blackburn, UK '68) the sound came alive, with much better bass extension, and unheard fine details. Incredible fine details that could still be heard despite the music playing loudly.

They are quite microphonic so you will need to protect them well from vibration.

Until I used them I wasn't really understanding why tube people tear their hair out over vibration isolation. Now I know why! 😀 But the sound is totally worth it.

They cost an arm and a leg but they come in perfectly matched pairs - matched not just in gain but other crucial parameters too.

I have read (but I can't remember where) that with 6SN7/300B amps you are listening to the 6SN7 as much as the 300B. People throw serious money at the 300B, but this experience shows that you must not forget those little driver tubes! 😀


----------



## Designer Tiger (Apr 21, 2022)

I found a very interesting thing is if we give 2 different power cables to dual mono.

Then we will get a hybrid sound combine both sound signatures from both cables.

The wireworld silver has a linear kind of sound shape with a clean and transparent treble.

The Tara labs has a rich vocal and tight bass with more kind surrounded smooth feeling.

Once you give them one for each, you get a very natural sound which has both of sound signatures and you won't feel any unbalanced.

The images are normal and vocal are right in front of you.

Have a try if you own a pair of wa5 or wa234.


----------



## SteveHulk

George Chronis said:


> Oh, man! I swapped in some Sylvania JAN and it's dead silent now on high all the way to 1 o' clock! These Ken-Rads I had in there are apparently noisy. Should have thought of that before I posted here. Thank you so much!!


Don't ever hold back from posting. We are here to help each other. Plus the fact that I was able to help you has given me a beautiful warm feeling! 🤗


----------



## George Chronis

SteveHulk said:


> You could look out for some Mullard CV181 that I got from Audio Antiquary in Bologna, Italy.
> 
> Before them I was running the Psvane CV181T mk II. Those were good, very quiet, low microphonics, but the sound was competent rather than fully engaging.
> 
> ...


I had a couple of Psvanes including the CV181T in my Lyr3. My impressions there were the same as yours on the WA5. I have about 20 pairs of 6SN7s I bought from a couple of guys here, but I only have 2-3 that I like now. I was going to try Ken-Rad VT231 black glass if I find them in a fair price and red base RCA 5692 (again for a fair price). I'll add the Mullard CV181 to the list.

And yes, I was one of those people that didn't realize the drivers made such a big difference. I don't roll the 300B or the rectifiers because of the cost, but didn't care about the 6SN7s much either. Now I do  I also have some Sophia Royal Princess tubes that came with the amp that I haven't really listened to. I may try those on there to see what I get as well.


----------



## SteveHulk (Apr 21, 2022)

George Chronis said:


> I had a couple of Psvanes including the CV181T in my Lyr3. My impressions there were the same as yours on the WA5. I have about 20 pairs of 6SN7s I bought from a couple of guys here, but I only have 2-3 that I like now. I was going to try Ken-Rad VT231 black glass if I find them in a fair price and red base RCA 5692 (again for a fair price). I'll add the Mullard CV181 to the list.
> 
> And yes, I was one of those people that didn't realize the drivers made such a big difference. I don't roll the 300B or the rectifiers because of the cost, but didn't care about the 6SN7s much either. Now I do  I also have some Sophia Royal Princess tubes that came with the amp that I haven't really listened to. I may try those on there to see what I get as well.


You can do much better than the Sophias. People talk about EML but I don't know how available they are. Takatsuki really cost an arm and a leg and WE originals are just mad. I run the Kron 300B and 300B XLS tubes and I love them. Quite apart from the sound they have an awesome build quality and are visually beautiful.


----------



## jonathan c

No more nice Woo. WA3 is going ‘musikill’… 

Tung Sol 5998 / Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray)…..😈🎺🎷🎹🥁…..


----------



## ucmgr

Nice looking amp!


----------



## VanHai

I love tube amps.


----------



## ucmgr

How do you like your DNA Sonett II in comparison to your Wa-22?


----------



## VanHai (Apr 24, 2022)

ucmgr said:


> How do you like your DNA Sonett II in comparison to your Wa-22?


Oh, you are asking me a hard question. I been trying to figure them out to see which one is better, sound wise they are almost the same. WA22 has a tiny better in details and clarity but the Sonett 2  has sweet organic vocals.


----------



## ucmgr

I had a Sonett years ago long before I owned any Woo amp. While mine was a Sonnet I I guess you would call it, I really enjoyed it and as you said, it has a sweetness to it. I've owned a few Woo Audio amps and they can really sound much different depending on the tubes you're using. I never did much tube rolling with the DNA so I don't really know if I maximized its' capabilities while I owned it. You have a very nice variety of amps and I'm sure each one offers something that the others don't.


----------



## SteveHulk (Apr 25, 2022)

VanHai said:


> I love tube amps.


What are you using as a front end for all those lovely amps?


----------



## VanHai

Hi SteveHulk, I use the following tubes for these amps.

WA6-SE : Mullard 5V4G for rectifer and 2 13DEF  w/ Woo adapters.

WA22: USAF 596 w/ Woo adapter, 2 TS 5998 and 2 Philco 6sn7.

DNA Sonett 2 Mullard 5V4G and 2 Electro Harmonix 6H30Pi.


----------



## SteveHulk

VanHai said:


> Hi SteveHulk, I use the following tubes for these amps.
> 
> WA6-SE : Mullard 5V4G for rectifer and 2 13DEF  w/ Woo adapters.
> 
> ...


I meant by "front end" what are your sound sources ie DAC etc? 🙂


----------



## VanHai

SteveHulk said:


> I meant by "front end" what are your sound sources ie DAC etc? 🙂


Oh, sorry. I misunderstood you. 

Laptop>Mini XMOS XU208 Digital interface 12S audio adapter>Topping D70s>Amps.
​


----------



## jhljhl

I have a pair of Siemens C3G tubes with Glenn adapters for WA5/WA5LE less than 10 hours. Price includes shipping to continental US.


----------



## jhljhl (Apr 26, 2022)

C3Gs sold. 6f8g tubes available; also Raytheon RK60/1641 tubes with adapters.


----------



## Killerb

Odin412 said:


> Very nice! I wonder what the price will be?


Price on Woo website $2699 looks pretty appealing to me.  No reviews yet so hope they will be at CanJam Chicago.


----------



## mab1376

Killerb said:


> Price on Woo website $2699 looks pretty appealing to me.  No reviews yet so hope they will be at CanJam Chicago.


They also have the new WA23 up now too, at a much higher price than I expected. I tried it in Feb at CanJam NYC with an Abyss Diana TC, sounded great! 2A3 amps are a real treat.

$1000 off for early purchases prior to June release.

https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa23-luna


----------



## ThanatosVI

mab1376 said:


> They also have the new WA23 up now too, at a much higher price than I expected. I tried it in Feb at CanJam NYC with an Abyss Diana TC, sounded great! 2A3 amps are a real treat.
> 
> $1000 off for early purchases prior to June release.
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa23-luna


Could you compare it to the Wa33 at Canjam?


----------



## Odin412

Killerb said:


> Price on Woo website $2699 looks pretty appealing to me.  No reviews yet so hope they will be at CanJam Chicago.


Interesting amp. I'm not sure I'm ready to step into the electrostatic world yet, but I'd like to hear this amp with an Audeze CRBN or a DCA Voce. Hopefully it will be at this year's CanJam SoCal.


----------



## mab1376 (May 6, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> Could you compare it to the Wa33 at Canjam?


I didn't get to side by side compare it since the WA33 was tied up.

But the WA23 is single-ended in design, whereas the WA33 is fully balanced.

Also, they're not picturing the external PSU with the WA23 that I saw at canjam.


----------



## musicman59

Odin412 said:


> Interesting amp. I'm not sure I'm ready to step into the electrostatic world yet, but I'd like to hear this amp with an Audeze CRBN or a DCA Voce. Hopefully it will be at this year's CanJam SoCal.


It suppose to be designed specifically for the CRBN.


----------



## Odin412

musicman59 said:


> It suppose to be designed specifically for the CRBN.


Cool! I haven't heard the CRBN yet - hopefully soon...


----------



## musicman59

Odin412 said:


> Cool! I haven't heard the CRBN yet - hopefully soon...


I listened to the combo at Axpona. It sounds really good. I listened to the CRBN with the Z10e first and was very disappointed and did not care for the sound at all but with the new Woo sounded really good.


----------



## Killerb

Killerb said:


> Price on Woo website $2699 looks pretty appealing to me.  No reviews yet so hope they will be at CanJam Chicago.


Mike at Woo Audio said the amp will be on demo at the Audeze booth at Canjam Chicago with the new CRBN headphones.


----------



## Roasty

I'm not really understanding that WA23 pricing. without the early bird discount, the retail is even higher than wa33 standard edition (?).


----------



## musicman59

I think part of the problem is that the RK50 is standard (I think) and just there is $1,000


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> I'm not really understanding that WA23 pricing. without the early bird discount, the retail is even higher than wa33 standard edition (?).


Woo Audio has been referring to it as a “baby WA33 Elite.”  With that in mind, it’s pricing seems to reflect that.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> I'm not really understanding that WA23 pricing. without the early bird discount, the retail is even higher than wa33 standard edition (?).


Being so many people move from the 'standard' WA33 to the JPS, Elite I'm thinking the WA23 might replan the 'standard' WA33...just a thought.


musicman59 said:


> I think part of the problem is that the RK50 is standard (I think) and just there is $1,000


The RK50 is standard in the WA23.


----------



## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> ~ The Woo Audio WA2 amplifier / ZMF headphone pairing continues to be my compass for navigating the Straits of Musicalia.
> ~ On this voyage, the rectifiers are RFT EZ81 (foil getter), the powers are GEC CV2984, the drivers are Valvo E88CC. The RFT ECC81 (foil getter) are on shore leave at the last port-of-call. The Eikon is the headphone bowsprit on this tour.
> ~ ⚓️ away...all heads on deck…🎼🎶


Here to also sing the praises of the WA2, bringing musical joy to this Head-Fier!

RFT EZ-81 (foil getter), Tung-Sol 7236, Amperex 7308s and a Synergistic Research Purple fuse driving ZMF Auteurs (Norne Drausk cable) and Focal Stellias (Cardas Clear Light cable) = musical bliss.

Grateful for how amazing music can be with cans… I can’t imagine the gear/listening room I’d need to match this with speakers.


----------



## Odin412

AudioDuck said:


> Here to also sing the praises of the WA2, bringing musical joy to this Head-Fier!
> 
> RFT EZ-81 (foil getter), Tung-Sol 7236, Amperex 7308s and a Synergistic Research Purple fuse driving ZMF Auteurs (Norne Drausk cable) and Focal Stellias (Cardas Clear Light cable) = musical bliss.
> 
> Grateful for how amazing music can be with cans… I can’t imagine the gear/listening room I’d need to match this with speakers.


Very nice! I've heard good things about the WA2, but I've never had a chance to hear one.


----------



## James824 (Jun 10, 2022)

AudioDuck said:


> Here to also sing the praises of the WA2, bringing musical joy to this Head-Fier!
> 
> RFT EZ-81 (foil getter), Tung-Sol 7236, Amperex 7308s and a Synergistic Research Purple fuse driving ZMF Auteurs (Norne Drausk cable) and Focal Stellias (Cardas Clear Light cable) = musical bliss.
> 
> Grateful for how amazing music can be with cans… I can’t imagine the gear/listening room I’d need to match this with speakers.


Very nice!

Mine continues to burn in.  According to Mike at Woo Audio I should continue the burn in process before I start tube rolling.

Just did a comparison between the headphone jacks on my McIntosh MA6600 and the DAC D100 jack as well and finally the WA2.
The WA2 takes it to an entirely different level.

The D100 will soon be replaced by a D1100. I am confident the WA2 will continue to impress.


----------



## AudioDuck

Odin412 said:


> Very nice! I've heard good things about the WA2, but I've never had a chance to hear one.


I took a bit of a leap of faith based on thorough research, and was upgrading from a Feliks Audio Echo, a fine amp in its own right. But I was not prepared for the leap in quality, it was almost shocking. 

With the current tube/fuse/cable complement I’d have to call my WA2 “a steel fist in a very soft velvet glove”. 😁


----------



## ucmgr

Has anyone replaced the fuse in a WA-22 2nd Gen and if so, with what, and did it make an audible difference?


----------



## Diehard9er

I have zero experience with tubes. These amps are beautiful. What kind of maintenance required? Where to begin? 

Do I try to match my DAC and phones up to an appropriate model?

Simaudio 280D streaming DAC
Senn 800
Audeze LCD-3


----------



## jonathan c

ucmgr said:


> Has anyone replaced the fuse in a WA-22 2nd Gen and if so, with what, and did it make an audible difference?


Not in a WA-22 but in a WA-2. Replacement fuse is Synergistic Research Purple (T 3.15A, 5x20mm). _Audible difference _for the better is only the beginning…


----------



## CAJames

ucmgr said:


> Has anyone replaced the fuse in a WA-22 2nd Gen and if so, with what, and did it make an audible difference?



Against my better judgement I tried a Synergetic Research Orange fuse in my WA22 and I was shocked, _shocked _at the improvement. The sound was bigger, more transparent and more detailed. There was way more there there.


----------



## CAJames

Diehard9er said:


> I have zero experience with tubes. These amps are beautiful. What kind of maintenance required? Where to begin?
> 
> ....



I guess "where to begin" is decide how much you want to spend and what models are in your budget. Then start scouring the forums to see what people are saying. Your 'phones and DAC are pretty mainstream and shouldn't have any particular issues with system matching IMO.

Re: maintenance there is very little. Mostly just acquiring ever more exotic tubes.


----------



## Diehard9er

CAJames said:


> I guess "where to begin" is decide how much you want to spend and what models are in your budget. Then start scouring the forums to see what people are saying. Your 'phones and DAC are pretty mainstream and shouldn't have any particular issues with system matching IMO.
> 
> Re: maintenance there is very little. Mostly just acquiring ever more exotic tubes.


Hey thanks very much. Yeah, I figure so much. I went to the Woo website and it’s really what I need I guess. Looking over the lineup, I really do need only an amp. My DAC is good. I won’t be driving speakers. I have mono amps for that task. Not sure really I even need a preamp with the Simaudio. My one and only real requirement is my DAC I’m using single ended into another piece of gear. I have to have balanced in on any headphone amp I’m looking at as that is what is available. I’d say that’s a good deal for headphones. 

It looks two distinct models in this category. Amp only. I’ll start there.

Thanks again.


----------



## AudioDuck

CAJames said:


> I guess "where to begin" is decide how much you want to spend and what models are in your budget. Then start scouring the forums to see what people are saying. Your 'phones and DAC are pretty mainstream and shouldn't have any particular issues with system matching IMO.
> 
> Re: maintenance there is very little. Mostly just acquiring ever more exotic tubes.


All excellent advice! 

I will note that many WA2 owners have noted how much they enjoy Senn 800s with the amp. I’ve seen more mixed notes on the LCD-3 though.

Overall, though, there are a number of great amps starting around $ 500 pre-owned. 

The one thing to consider is that tube amps can be more sensitive to vibration and RF interference- but I’ve never had issues with either, using my gear in a dedicated, albeit not vibration-proofed, cabinet.


----------



## SteveHulk

Diehard9er said:


> I have zero experience with tubes. These amps are beautiful. What kind of maintenance required? Where to begin?
> 
> Do I try to match my DAC and phones up to an appropriate model?
> 
> ...


The amps are beautiful. In my opinion the 300B tubes are especially awesome.

Don't worry about matching what you have. Just get the best amp you can. Don't split your budget to get a tube set upgrade - that can always come later. Stick with basic tubes to start. Then when you make an upgrade in the rest of your system or the tubes the amp will always respond.


----------



## James824

I had no experience with tubes before purchasing my WA7 (2nd Gen) about 5 years ago.
The amp has been flawless and has required 0 maintenance.  It continues to serve me well in my study

If I did not love my main amp so much, I would give serious thought to replacing it with a tube amp.

I added the WA2 a few months ago and anticipate the same experience with it as well.  This amp LOVES HD800, so much I am adding a second pair (HD800S).
Mike at Woo is always eager to answer any questions you may have.

The WA2 should pair nicely with your SimAudio DAC  as they make great stuff.  Yesterday I ordered a new DAC and SimAudio was on the short list in my pursuit as I already have a 260DT transport.


----------



## AudioDuck

Diehard9er said:


> It looks two distinct models in this category. Amp only. I’ll start there.


In case anyone is cruising this string while considering a Woo Audio headphone amp purchase, there are two WA2s (one silver, one black) and a WA22 (silver) for sale over on US Audio Mart (I have no connection to any of the sellers/amps)… more than usual, by far- 😊


----------



## Odin412

AudioDuck said:


> In case anyone is cruising this string while considering a Woo Audio headphone amp purchase, there are two WA2s (one silver, one black) and a WA22 (silver) for sale over on US Audio Mart (I have no connection to any of the sellers/amps)… more than usual, by far- 😊


Tempting...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

There's also a WA6-SE Gen 2 for sale in our Classifieds, and I think @Bonddam has his WA5-LE still up for sale...


----------



## jerick70

ColSaulTigh said:


> There's also a WA6-SE Gen 2 for sale in our Classifieds, and I think @Bonddam has his WA5-LE still up for sale...


The WA5-LE is an awesome tube amp!.  I owned one at one time and miss it.  Wish I would have kept it.


----------



## SteveHulk

jerick70 said:


> The WA5-LE is an awesome tube amp!.  I owned one at one time and miss it.  Wish I would have kept it.


I still have it and I totally agree. I'll never let it go, even if I replace it.


----------



## pervysage

Getting the itch for a tube amp again...

I always regretted selling my OG Gen 1 WA7.

Wondering if I should jump on the WA7 Gen 3 or splurge on the WA22 instead.


----------



## pippen99

If you consider the WA22 a splurge I would pass on that.  Of the Woo amps I have owned and all the impressions I have read on here, the WA22 seems to be the Woo amp most affected by tube upgrades.  To get the most out of a WA22 will require a monetary outlay on upgrades that will measure a considerable fraction of the original purchase price.  Heard nothing but good things about the WA7.


----------



## pervysage

pippen99 said:


> If you consider the WA22 a splurge I would pass on that.  Of the Woo amps I have owned and all the impressions I have read on here, the WA22 seems to be the Woo amp most affected by tube upgrades.  To get the most out of a WA22 will require a monetary outlay on upgrades that will measure a considerable fraction of the original purchase price.  Heard nothing but good things about the WA7.



Hmm.. that is very true. Thanks for your input. The WA7 does seem like the better all in one solution and I loved the sound of the original so there's that.


----------



## exchez

pervysage said:


> Getting the itch for a tube amp again...
> 
> I always regretted selling my OG Gen 1 WA7.
> 
> Wondering if I should jump on the WA7 Gen 3 or splurge on the WA22 instead.


There are also a couple WA6's for sale in the classifieds


----------



## jonathan c

pervysage said:


> Getting the itch for a tube amp again...
> 
> I always regretted selling my OG Gen 1 WA7.
> 
> Wondering if I should jump on the WA7 Gen 3 or splurge on the WA22 instead.


The WA6SE is a good candidate. Get pairs of good Sylvania 13DE7s and leave the rolling for rectifier tubes! 😀


----------



## CAJames

pippen99 said:


> If you consider the WA22 a splurge I would pass on that.  Of the Woo amps I have owned and all the impressions I have read on here, the WA22 seems to be the Woo amp most affected by tube upgrades.  To get the most out of a WA22 will require a monetary outlay on upgrades that will measure a considerable fraction of the original purchase price.  Heard nothing but good things about the WA7.


It is certainly possible to spend an almost unlimited amount on “heritage” tubes for the WA22 but for me a big part of its attraction is finding really great sounding tubes that only cost a fraction of the going rate for Tung-Sol, WE, Mullard etc. For example 6J5 or CV1135 inputs , A2293 power tubes and any number of rectifiers, perhaps starting with the Brimar 5Z4. I can’t say how this compares to “the best” but it sounds really good to me and certainly light years ahead of the stock tubes.


----------



## AudioDuck

exchez said:


> There are also a couple WA6's for sale in the classifieds


…and two WA2s. Choices, choices! 😊

While you certainly could spend a lot on NOS tubes for that amp, decent 6080s (power), EZ81s (rectifier), and 6922s (input) don’t have to cost an arm and a leg, really. 

It also comes down to your sound sig preference and which cans you want to use with the amp. Smooth, more “tube-like” sound with high-impedance cans? WA2. More muscular, punchy sound with a broader range of headphones? WA6SE/7 (or so I’ve read!).

I will say this- if you are a ZMF fan and own/listen to one or more of their pairs, the WA2 is pretty darn amazing. My 2 cents (as we say in the U.S.)-


----------



## ucmgr

You are correct. I have owned a couple of WA-22's and a WA-6SE. Tube rolling is inexpensive for the most part on a WA-6SE. Once you get rolling on a WA-22, you can really start spending some serious money. I might be in the minority in my thoughts here, but half the fun of owning tube equipment is seeing/hearing what different levels of tubes can bring to the table. Sure you can buy some very expensive rectifiers, and they will allow the amp to produce a better quality of sound reproduction. That doesn't mean that you have to spend hundreds upon hundreds of dollars to reap the benefits of a high quality amp like the Woo Audio WA-22. I own about six different rectifiers and each one will sound different in the mix. Do the more expensive ones sound better? Sure they do. Does an inexpensive one sound bad? Not necessarily. Spend what you like and can reasonably justify for the improvement you require. Do the stock tubes that come with a WA-22 sound terrible? No, but there are always others that probably sound better. I've thought about going back to a solid state headphone amp but what fun is it to turn it on and have it sound exactly the same any time? Sure you can change out the power cord and maybe hear some difference. The one great thing about tube equipment is that you can experiment to get what sound you want. Changing out tubes can really affect everything about the sound the amp will produce. That's half the fun of it and isn't it really why wee all do this??


----------



## jerick70

pervysage said:


> Getting the itch for a tube amp again...
> 
> I always regretted selling my OG Gen 1 WA7.
> 
> Wondering if I should jump on the WA7 Gen 3 or splurge on the WA22 instead.


It depends on how much you are willing to spend.  Personally, I would go with the WA22 over the WA7.  I’ve owned both. IMO The WA22 was far better sounding, more flexible, and has better longevity in a system.  

Just my 2 cents


----------



## UntilThen

Why is everyone putting down just 2 cents? I'm putting down $2.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

UntilThen said:


> Why is everyone putting down just 2 cents? I'm putting down $2.


----------



## UntilThen

$3 is a bold bid !

Most are not willing to go down the tube amp rabbit hole because of the expense on NOS tubes. However those who have experience great NOS tubes in an old school amp would be willing to sell all their rabbits for the euphony.

Just my $4 !


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Why is everyone putting down just 2 cents? I'm putting down $2.


…with the CPI running as it is, 3 cents !!! 🤬


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


>


Squidward: “A crabby patty or a pix of Woo WA234?”….😡


----------



## UntilThen

exchez said:


> There are also a couple WA6's for sale in the classifieds



Like this? https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/546933-fs-wood-audio-wa6-tube-headphone-amplifier/

If not for the fact that my Wa22 is sitting on the floor, I'd have bought it.


----------



## jonathan c

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sho...e-no-old-pictures-please.529140/post-17021199


----------



## Onik

jonathan c said:


> Not in a WA-22 but in a WA-2. Replacement fuse is Synergistic Research Purple (T 3.15A, 5x20mm). _Audible difference _for the better is only the beginning…


I never knew that fuse makes any audible difference...is it real or just a fantasy? 🤔


----------



## mab1376

Onik said:


> I never knew that fuse makes any audible difference...is it real or just a fantasy? 🤔


everything is converted into DC inside the amp through the power supply, so I'd imagine not unless the factory one was faulty in some way.


----------



## Onik

mab1376 said:


> everything is converted into DC inside the amp through the power supply, so I'd imagine not unless the factory one was faulty in some way.


Exactly 💯 this fuse thing dont make any sense, but only does to our audiofool friends!👏🏽


----------



## CAJames

Onik said:


> I never knew that fuse makes any audible difference...is it real or just a fantasy? 🤔



For a small investment you can answer that question yourself. Try a (cheap) ceramic fuse in your amp instead of the stock glass fuse and see if it changes/improves the sound. If it doesn't you're done. If it does then you have something to think about.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Please, let's not get into the fuse debate again.  It just gets people riled up and there's a bunch of name-calling and pouting...  Can't we all just get along?!?!


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Please, let's not get into the fuse debate again.  It just gets people riled up and there's a bunch of name-calling and pouting...  Can't we all just get along?!?!


The debate about audio fuses lights debater fuses !!!…🤪😡😂🤬…🪦


----------



## CAJames

ColSaulTigh said:


> Please, let's not get into the fuse debate again.  It just gets people riled up and there's a bunch of name-calling and pouting...  Can't we all just get along?!?!



You’re just saying that to get likes…


----------



## jonathan c

Rodney King…


----------



## thecrow

I have never changed a fuse in my gear so I have no opinion from my personal experience on this topic
I have read of some members loving this fuse below in their wa2.

If anyone wants to try it it appears to have a 30 day return guarantee - so no risk

https://highend-electronics.com/pro...h-purple-quantum-fuses?variant=39439459942518


----------



## ColSaulTigh

thecrow said:


> I have never changed a fuse in my gear so I have no opinion from my personal experience on this topic
> I have read of some members loving this fuse below in their wa2.
> 
> If anyone wants to try it it appears to have a 30 day return guarantee - so no risk
> ...


I have them in all of my equipment, including my WA5-LE.  I think they have a little effect.  Not mind blowing, but an improvement.


----------



## AudioDuck

Incredibly grateful that I was able to get my WA2. With Tung-Sol 7236 power tubes, RFT EZ-81 (foil getter) rectifiers, and Brimar CV 4003/12AU7s driving ZMF Eikons, it is amazing with jazz, pop, and rock. 

Good recordings have air, wide soundstaging, deep-deep/textured bass, and liquid, organic midrange. The above is a great combination, highly recommended. 

The move from 7308s to 12AU7s (with adapters) was very significant- the amount of air added and the expansion of the soundstage is remarkable. 

I could see using 7308s for EDM and any music that benefits from SERIOUS punch and über-tight bass, but for the other genres I listen to, the adapters + the move to 12AX7-type tubes was a big step up. 

If you have a WA2 and are curious about the combos above, hit me up via DM.


----------



## bluenight

Hi about synergy with HD800S. Now two people have recommended me WA2 with HD800S. One called it fantastic pairing and one preferred it over Niimbus. 

Do you agree? Its a safe choice? 

Or is there better pairings in your opinion? 

And how would you describe the sound. 

How does it handle the treble peaks? 
Is the Vocals and bass fullbodied? 

Ferrum Oor+Hypsos have been too bright and sibilant for me also might lack some bass.


----------



## bluenight

I just read. con: gets extremely hot is that still the case? maybe it was referring to the tubes? 

Anyway i wouldn't want it the heat the room to a sauna in summer time.


----------



## exchez

bluenight said:


> I just read. con: gets extremely hot is that still the case? maybe it was referring to the tubes?
> 
> Anyway i wouldn't want it the heat the room to a sauna in summer time.


It generates some heat but I wouldn't say it runs hot compared to other tube amps like the Valhalla 2.


----------



## bluenight

WA2 with HD800S is a fullbodied amp? 
And no thin vocals?
Good detail level?


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> It generates some heat but I wouldn't say it runs hot compared to other tube amps like the Valhalla 2.


The power transformers get warm, as they should, in use. With a large surface area, they cool down reasonably quickly after the WA2 is turned off. The tubes cool off quickly.


----------



## ucmgr

I had a WA-6SE paired with the HD800's and it was excellent. I only sold it because I wanted to run all balanced so I moved up to a WA-22.  I'm not familiar with the WA-2 other than it's an OTL. Tube rolling for the WA-6SE is not very expensive unless you go crazy and buy some ultra-expensive rectifier. The driver/power tubes are fairly common and you can find them at reasonable prices almost anywhere.


----------



## jonathan c

I have a 2nd Generation WA6SE with the 13DE7 driver tube sockets. Initially, I had my doubts about not being able to roll 12AT7 tubes etc; but, there are some very nice sounding 13DE7s out there. My favourite is the ‘yellow print’ Sylvania. Those with the Brimar CV1863 rectifier tube = 🎼😊🎵.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 9, 2022)

ucmgr said:


> I had a WA-6SE paired with the HD800's and it was excellent.


Its also a interesting amp for me. Same price as WA2. I wonder what pairs best with HD800S of those two?

WA-6SE is a little more powerfull. 
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1059475471/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I love all of my Woo Audio amps!

The WA6-SE Gen 2 is where I started, and currently have a WA5-LE as my main amp.  Still use the WA6-SE's, mainly for comparison of rectifiers.

Until I'm introduced to something better, I see no reason to change.


----------



## AudioDuck

ucmgr said:


> I'm not familiar with the WA-2 other than it's an OTL. Tube rolling for the WA-6SE is not very expensive unless you go crazy and buy some ultra-expensive rectifier. The driver/power tubes are fairly common and you can find them at reasonable prices almost anywhere.


While I don’t know how “full-bodied” the midrange of the HD-800/S might be with the WA2, it definitely works well with the midrange of ZMF 300 Ohm headphones. Very organic, strong midrange presence- “you are there” feeling.

Tube rolling for the WA2 is generally reasonable, with a set of NOS power tubes costing $75-100. That’s what I’ve paid for 7236s, which are quite good- I love mine- 6080s (decent backups), and other alternatives. The “holy grail” power tubes can cost $250-500 a pair, but honestly the amp sounds incredible with 7236s.

Great rectifier tubes cost $50-60 a pair, and driver (or are they “input tubes”? I’m always confused) can cost $50-200 for 6922/7308s or similar, BUT thanks to @jonathan c and @billerb1 I’ve learned how amazing 12AX7-family tubes are… much better performance for the cost ($75-100 for incredible NOS tubes). But you will need adapters, which usually cost $50-60. 

So ultimately tube rolling to ONE excellent set of NOS tubes for a WA2 will cost about $300, if you are selective and patient (including adapters for the input tubes). But then you also have the WA2 running at near-top quality. 

And usually pre-owned WA2s sell with some decent tubes included, so you can wait to invest that extra money. And given pre-owned WA2s sell for about $800-900, you would have an end-game tube amp for about $1200, which is pretty impressive.

(I would also recommend a fuse upgrade, but that is a contentious topic as some folks don’t believe you can hear the difference, but whatever- I know what I’m hearing. 😉)


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Has anyone tried the Western Electric JW 2C51 with a 6922 adapter on the WA2?


----------



## bluenight

ColSaulTigh said:


> I love all of my Woo Audio amps!
> 
> The WA6-SE Gen 2 is where I started, and currently have a WA5-LE as my main amp.  Still use the WA6-SE's, mainly for comparison of rectifiers.
> 
> Until I'm introduced to something better, I see no reason to change.


They  are very good looking


----------



## billerb1

Nicolas Yance said:


> Has anyone tried the Western Electric JW 2C51 with a 6922 adapter on the WA2?


Yes and I thought they were a nice upgrade from many of the 6922’s I’d tried.


----------



## Contrails

Anyone compared the 1st gen vs 2nd generation WA22?


----------



## CAJames (Jul 9, 2022)

I haven’t actually compared but it seems like the big difference is the preamp out on the v2. I don’t recall anyone getting excited about sound differences.


----------



## thecrow

Nicolas Yance said:


> Has anyone tried the Western Electric JW 2C51 with a 6922 adapter on the WA2?





billerb1 said:


> Yes and I thought they were a nice upgrade from many of the 6922’s I’d tried.


Bill and I had different experiences.

i tried them once but they were not better than my upgraded 6922 options that i have.

i found them ok but not much more than that so i sold them 
(unless i had a bad pair of course)

for me and my preferences the best value 6922 tubes are the holland e188cc varieties. It’s been so long since I bought them or searched for tubes that i can’t even remember the specifics without looking at my tubes. I think one was a d-getter red valvo of about 1960.

and then there is the pinched waist that i use almost all the time (holland over usa) which are better for me, but not as good value due to the higher price that i paid (about 2.5x of the others above).

the wa2 amp has so many options - incl siemens and telefunkens that i’s great

and my beloved gec6as7g that are simply plug and play. Set and forget. No tube rolling needed. But are so much more expensive than they used to be 5+ years ago.

imho, and especially with tubes ymmv


----------



## Contrails

CAJames said:


> I haven’t actually compared but it seems like the big difference is the preamp out on the v2. I don’t recall anyone getting excited about sound differences.


Thank you. I see you are using the arya with the WA22. Is that the V3 Arya?


----------



## CAJames

No, the previous version.


----------



## jonathan c

☕& 🎼 …


----------



## IvanE92

Anyone have a pair of new or used vintage 6FD7 Fat Bottles they'd be willing to sell? Can't seem to find any in stock at the moment. Please let me know! Curious to try that tube alongside some others folks have recommended.


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Jul 17, 2022)

Contrails said:


> Anyone compared the 1st gen vs 2nd generation WA22?


1st gen is nice with upgraded parts and tubes, but always seems to be lacking that last bit of detail, though it has a good wide open soundstage and imaging. WA22 gen 2 better, but WA5LE (both gens) easily tops both


----------



## Contrails

Dubstep Girl said:


> 1st gen is nice with upgraded parts and tubes, but always seems to be lacking that last bit of detail, though it has a good wide open soundstage and imaging. WA22 gen 2 better, but WA5LE (both gens) easily tops both


I have a feeling Woo has improved the trafo quality. I remember chatting with Glen about upgrades to the gen 1 and he said it was the trafo that needed to be changed to really get the amp going.


----------



## FLTWS

ColSaulTigh said:


> I love all of my Woo Audio amps!
> 
> The WA6-SE Gen 2 is where I started, and currently have a WA5-LE as my main amp.  Still use the WA6-SE's, mainly for comparison of rectifiers.
> 
> Until I'm introduced to something better, I see no reason to change.


Nice use of the natural bark on that plank.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

FLTWS said:


> Nice use of the natural bark on that plank.


Thank you!  That was a weekend project with a piece of Black Walnut, a lot of sanding, and a lot of spray varnish.  So far, it's holding up very well!


----------



## AudioDuck

Hi early-model WA2 owners-

I am thinking about selling my Naim (Nait XS) integrated and using my WA2 as a preamp with a solid-state power amp.

My WA2 is the preamp-included version without the preamp/headamp switch. 

*My question: *Does inserting a headphone plug in the 1/4” jack mute the preamp output? I did some searching in this thread, and have not seen an answer. 

I ask because otherwise, I will need to turn off the power amp when not in use- otherwise my family will get to “enjoy” the same tunes via our speakers. 

(As the power amp I’m thinking about needs some time to warm up, that adds some food for thought.)


----------



## ColSaulTigh

In case anyone is interested, I found a pair of my beloved *KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition Rectifier tubes* for sale. I've bought from him before, excellent seller, but he's firm on his price.

Go get 'em!


----------



## zimzim2001

I have a WA5-LE (Gen. 1) w/Premium Parts Upgrade for sale.  If anyone's interested please PM me.  Thanks.


----------



## Bonddam (Sep 13, 2022)

Hi enjoying my Wee with Perun Rock. Using speaker amp from China. The amp is 300B tube amp 5 tubes total pushing 7.6 watts/channel into 8 ohms. For $1500 system id say it is well the so called low quality.  I get the same power from a Stax so for EDM music it is good enough. all 300B electro amps are crazy expensive. Plus I bet this amp is a rip off of some high end American brand. The only thing is a small attenuation circuit of filter as the hum is there at soft level. It does not take away from the enjoyment. For those not familiar with the Perun Rock it's an estat with 4 or 5 drivers per side. The bass is quad and a tweeter driver(just a narrow long high frequency driver). The bass is to perform more as planar level and bass drivers for midrange. It's also big wall sound as the drivers take over your head like egg shape Hifiamans. You cant tell there is more than one driver. Sounds like being in a actual club as the speaker system immerses you into sound all around. 

I see no love for the Wee but I love it.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I guess I’ll rep Woo Audio tonight 🤷‍♂️


----------



## IvanE92

Shameless plug - selling my Woo WA6! https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/woo-audio-wa6-tube-amp.32366/


----------



## jonathan c

IvanE92 said:


> Shameless plug - selling my Woo WA6! https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/woo-audio-wa6-tube-amp.32366/


Good luck. I love WA6-Gen 1.


----------



## benjifx19

Just ordered the WA6 2nd Gen. Very very excited for this.


----------



## Barnstormer13

benjifx19 said:


> Just ordered the WA6 2nd Gen. Very very excited for this.


What are you going to plug into it?


----------



## benjifx19

Barnstormer13 said:


> What are you going to plug into it?


Looking at tube options now it was a quick decision instead of the Schiit LYR+. Pretty impulsive but feeling good about it


----------



## ColSaulTigh

benjifx19 said:


> Looking at tube options now it was a quick decision instead of the Schiit LYR+. Pretty impulsive but feeling good about it


You'll have lots of fun with it.  I love it so much I bought two!


----------



## Basco

ColSaulTigh said:


> You'll have lots of fun with it.  I love it so much I bought two!


Overkill as always 😇


----------



## mab1376

So happy I finally got a replacement pair of HE-500!

Just in time!


----------



## benjifx19

ColSaulTigh said:


> You'll have lots of fun with it.  I love it so much I bought two!


i also use Musician DAC's i have the Draco. I love it. Your setup is so clean wow


----------



## benjifx19

Barnstormer13 said:


> What are you going to plug into it?


Just got from ebay

1) Pair of 13DE7 Tubes Hitachi Japan NOS Black Grey Plates 
2 )Pair of GE 13DE7 TUBE NOS 

Need some suggestions for 5U4G


----------



## benjifx19

ColSaulTigh said:


> You'll have lots of fun with it.  I love it so much I bought two!


Are those socket savers i see and can i get them from Woo Audio?


----------



## jonathan c

Those are 13EM7 => 13DE7 adapters made by Woo Audio. 🥇🏆 for craftsmanship!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Those are 13EM7 => 13DE7 adapters made by Woo Audio. 🥇🏆 for craftsmanship!


Correct.  Woo makes the best (IMO) adapters of any conversion type.   Expensive, but worth it!


----------



## benjifx19

The Pair of GE 13DE7 TUBE NOS came in. If i wanted the Socket Saver from Woo Audio would i get the 9 pin socket saver for this? Using WA6 2nd generation


----------



## bpcans

@benjifx19, just check the Woo tube compatibility chart.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

benjifx19 said:


> The Pair of GE 13DE7 TUBE NOS came in. If i wanted the Socket Saver from Woo Audio would i get the 9 pin socket saver for this? Using WA6 2nd generation


Yes, the Woo 9 pin --> 9 pin should be what you want.


----------



## musicinmymind

If I take short break like 10 to 15 mins, during longer listening sessions, I switch off WA33 to save tube life. Is it good practice to switch off or just keep it on?


----------



## ThanatosVI

musicinmymind said:


> If I take short break like 10 to 15 mins, during longer listening sessions, I switch off WA33 to save tube life. Is it good practice to switch off or just keep it on?


If the break is only 10 minutes I'd leave it on. If it's longer than 1h turn it off.


----------



## bpcans

musicinmymind said:


> If I take short break like 10 to 15 mins, during longer listening sessions, I switch off WA33 to save tube life. Is it good practice to switch off or just keep it on?


My WA22 is pretty robust, especially with the tubes I have in it now. When I’m at home I’ll leave my amp on up to six hours at a time so that I can go back and I don’t have to let the tubes warmup again. I’m positive that your WA33 won’t suffer any adverse consequences if you walk away for 10 minutes.


----------



## musicinmymind

Thanks for all the suggestion, will keep it on for short breaks.


----------



## pippen99

musicinmymind said:


> If I take short break like 10 to 15 mins, during longer listening sessions, I switch off WA33 to save tube life. Is it good practice to switch off or just keep it on?


Just make sure you keep a headphone plugged in.  I have a sacrificial $15 headphone that I use for startup.  You might want to have something like that if you are uncomfortable leaving a multi$K headphone plugged in unattended.


----------



## musicinmymind

pippen99 said:


> Just make sure you keep a headphone plugged in.  I have a sacrificial $15 headphone that I use for startup.  You might want to have something like that if you are uncomfortable leaving a multi$K headphone plugged in unattended.



I normally do not disconnect headphone at all, Susvara is always connected to WA33


----------



## billerb1

Since I moved to the Telefunken G73R's, my former #1 Telefunken ECC801S's (matched pair) are now available in the Classifieds.  Great deal.
PM me.


----------



## jbua5150

I often turn my amps on at least an hour before I intend to listen. I use these “Burn-in tools” when I power up my tubes. 
It provides a 16ohm load, and if something went bad upon warm-up, my expensive headphones would be spared any possible damage.


----------



## Badas

jbua5150 said:


> I often turn my amps on at least an hour before I intend to listen. I use these “Burn-in tools” when I power up my tubes.
> It provides a 16ohm load, and if something went bad upon warm-up, my expensive headphones would be spared any possible damage.


Nice tip.


----------



## pippen99

An hour might be a wee bit of overkill.  I usually give mine at least 15 minutes of warm up.  I have a $15 pair of headphones I use for warmup.  I also have found that using some input warms everything up quicker.  I like that little device.  Much more compact than a pair of headphones.


----------



## AudioDuck

pippen99 said:


> An hour might be a wee bit of overkill.  I usually give mine at least 15 minutes of warm up.  I have a $15 pair of headphones I use for warmup.  I also have found that using some input warms everything up quicker.  I like that little device.  Much more compact than a pair of headphones.


For what it’s worth, the WA2 apparently only needs about five minutes’ warmup. Woo Audio has noted even shorter warmups (as little as a minute) are workable, but I like to let the tube temperatures to rise and stabilize before listening, so I typically wait 5+ minutes before enjoying.


----------



## Badas

pippen99 said:


> An hour might be a wee bit of overkill.  I usually give mine at least 15 minutes of warm up.  I have a $15 pair of headphones I use for warmup.  I also have found that using some input warms everything up quicker.  I like that little device.  Much more compact than a pair of headphones.


I use my WA22 as soon as it's turned on. 
It does sound better after that 90 minute mark.


----------



## blackdragon87

I wanna buy an WA2 please pm me if for sale. 115 VAC


----------



## ucmgr

I try to let my WA-22 warm up about 1/2 hour if I have the time. Otherwise, I fire it up and listen and notice the changes as it warms up. No right or wrong answer just depends on your time frame and your patience


----------



## Basco

jbua5150 said:


> I use these “Burn-in tools” when I power up my tubes.


Read some thread about it and it seems to be „snake oil“ 🐍


----------



## Slade01

Basco said:


> Read some thread about it and it seems to be „snake oil“ 🐍


Well at least its only a few dollars.   I don't think you'd need anything plugged in for tubes to burn in as long as the current is going and its a' glowin'.


----------



## pippen99

Not according to Woo(at least on a WA33)


----------



## Slade01

pippen99 said:


> Not according to Woo(at least on a WA33)



That makes sense.  I don't think WA33 is an OTL right?  Then it should maintain some sort of load (e.g. headphone plugged in).


----------



## ThanatosVI

Slade01 said:


> That makes sense.  I don't think WA33 is an OTL right?  Then it should maintain some sort of load (e.g. headphone plugged in).


It really depends on amp Design. 
My Octave is fine without any load connected to it.


----------



## mab1376

ucmgr said:


> I try to let my WA-22 warm up about 1/2 hour if I have the time. Otherwise, I fire it up and listen and notice the changes as it warms up. No right or wrong answer just depends on your time frame and your patience


The manual only states "Allow approximately 5 minutes of warm-up."


----------



## jbua5150

Basco said:


> Read some thread about it and it seems to be „snake oil“ 🐍


To clarify.
I don’t use them for “burn-in”.
I use them to provide a load when I power up my OTC tube amps.


----------



## jbua5150

mab1376 said:


> The manual only states "Allow approximately 5 minutes of warm-up."


I use a few tubes that make “tinkling” noises for at least 20 minutes until they are fully warmed.  
Most of my 6F8G and 6C8G preamp tubes behave this way.


----------



## pippen99

Out of curiosity(and boredom) I checked the owner's manuals I could access.  The following explicitly state to plug in a headphone before powering up:  WA2, WA3, WA5 LE, WA6, WA6-SE, WA22, WA33.  The manual for the WA7 Fireflies does not recommend plugging in a headphone or I missed it.  I could not find an online manual for the WA23 or WA234.


----------



## jbua5150 (Oct 25, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> Out of curiosity(and boredom) I checked the owner's manuals I could access.  The following explicitly state to plug in a headphone before powering up:  WA2, WA3, WA5 LE, WA6, WA6-SE, WA22, WA33.  The manual for the WA7 Fireflies does not recommend plugging in a headphone or I missed it.  I could not find an online manual for the WA23 or WA234.


This is precisely why I use the xDuoo “burn-in tool” when powering up either WA6-SE or WA22.
Prior to my implementation of the “burn-in tool” I’d had a capacitor blow on the WA6-SE with my LCD-X plugged in. 
There were very loud, nasty, popping noises that omitted from the LCD-X.
This experience is what motivated me to no longer power up my amps with expensive headphones plugged in. 
I then used a cheap pair of Monoprice headphones while powering up. 
The “burn in tool” is much more convenient for me.


----------



## 9bphillips

jbua5150 said:


> I often turn my amps on at least an hour before I intend to listen. I use these “Burn-in tools” when I power up my tubes.
> It provides a 16ohm load, and if something went bad upon warm-up, my expensive headphones would be spared any possible damage.


It says it is 3.5mm. How do you use it with a woo amp?


----------



## jbua5150

9bphillips said:


> It says it is 3.5mm. How do you use it with a woo amp?


3.5mm to 6.35mm adapter.


----------



## vlach

pippen99 said:


> Out of curiosity(and boredom) I checked the owner's manuals I could access.  The following explicitly state to plug in a headphone before powering up:  WA2, WA3, WA5 LE, WA6, WA6-SE, WA22, WA33.  The manual for the WA7 Fireflies does not recommend plugging in a headphone or I missed it.  I could not find an online manual for the WA23 or WA234.


I've never plugged a headphone in my WA2 while it warms up and never had a problem.


----------



## 9bphillips

jbua5150 said:


> 3.5mm to 6.35mm adapter.


Thx! I think this is a great idea. I'll be on the lookout for both. I would cry if something happened to my VC or Atrium! Lol


----------



## Basco

jbua5150 said:


> To clarify.
> I don’t use them for “burn-in”.
> I use them to provide a load when I power up my OTC tube amps.


Ok not for burn-in but wouldn’t it be the same if you just plug in an 3.5 or 6.35 adapter instead to have at least not an empty headphone socket?


----------



## jbua5150

Basco said:


> wouldn’t it be the same if you just plug in an 3.5 or 6.35 adapter instead to have at least not an empty headphone socket?


NO.
A 3.5mm to 6.35mm has zero resistance.
The "burn in tool" is 16 ohm resistance.


----------



## ucmgr

I usually always keep my headphones plugged into my WA-22. I guess there's really no probelm in letting it sit at idle for too terribly long while it warms up other than it may shorten up the tube life a little I'm guessing


----------



## SteveHulk

ucmgr said:


> I usually always keep my headphones plugged into my WA-22. I guess there's really no probelm in letting it sit at idle for too terribly long while it warms up other than it may shorten up the tube life a little I'm guessing


On my WA5-LE I must say that I leave it to warm up for up to an hour. 

Initially there are some clinking sounds as the tubes reach thermal equilibrium. 

These sounds stop after a few minutes but it still takes quite a while for the sound to open up fully. 

Before I listen, I put some Bach organ on the headphones and leave it playing while I have a cup of tea. 

When I get back the system is good and ready.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Nov 30, 2022)

Edit:


----------



## ucmgr

What are asking for the amp and where are you located? Skip


----------



## rivonlol

Hello all,

I am currently in process of getting a WA33 and will be selling WA22 2nd gen along with all of the tubes that I picked up along the way including WE 422A, 2x TS 5998 and quite a few others. if anyone is interested before I put up listing let me know.

also just trying to get my posts up so I can actually list stuff 😅


----------



## Basco

Dear All, ✌️
also looking for a good offer for a WA6-SE (2nd Gen) in Black for a while now.

Great when you are located in the EU (ideally Germany).

Hope someone is upgrading and are happy to give their amp a new nice home ✨


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Basco said:


> Dear All, ✌️
> also looking for a good offer for a WA6-SE (2nd Gen) in Black for a while now.
> 
> Great when you are located in the EU (ideally Germany).
> ...


You might have to break down and just order one new.  Woo did have a sale going on now...


----------



## Basco

ColSaulTigh said:


> You might have to break down and just order one new.  Woo did have a sale going on now...


Thanks for the heads-up…totally missed this one. As far as I could see I didn’t spoted a WA6-SE there…

I wrote them if they have some deal coming also for Cyber Friday on 25th of November.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Basco said:


> Thanks for the heads-up…totally missed this one. As far as I could see I didn’t spoted a WA6-SE there…
> 
> I wrote them if they have some deal coming also for Cyber Friday on 25th of November.


Free worldwide shipping saves you a little cash,  And maybe they'll give you a 10% off deal or something.  Never hurts to ask.


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColSaulTigh said:


> And maybe they'll give you a 10% off deal or something.


Does that work on heavy hitters like Wa33?


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Nov 17, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> Does that work on heavy hitters like Wa33?


I think in case of heavy hitters You can request quite a nice discount.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Never hurts to ask.


----------



## SteveHulk

I'd like to source a pair of Kron Audio KR 274B-HP rectifiers for my WA5...

Anybody willing to part with them? 🙂


----------



## CAJames (Nov 17, 2022)

Woo often has open box and similar specials. That’s how I got my WA22, but 2020 was a simpler time…


----------



## pippen99

I got my WA33 for BF 2019.  I also negotiated a cash discount and a discount on upgrade tubes.  That was then and this is now.🤷‍♂️


----------



## ColSaulTigh

SteveHulk said:


> I'd like to source a pair of Kron Audio KR 274B-HP rectifiers for my WA5...
> 
> Anybody willing to part with them? 🙂


They will pop up from time-to-time on USAudioMart.  That's where I got my KR 5U4G RK Anniversary Editions (which sound pretty good in the Woo, btw).


----------



## Basco

ColSaulTigh said:


> They will pop up from time-to-time on USAudioMart.  That's where I got my KR 5U4G RK Anniversary Editions (which sound pretty good in the Woo, btw).


Hey, what did you pay for your KR RK 5U4G when acquired back then?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Basco said:


> Hey, what did you pay for your KR RK 5U4G when acquired back then?


$400 each.


----------



## Shamburg

Proud owner of the WA7 Fireflies v3. Beautiful in every way.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Shamburg said:


> Proud owner of the WA7 Fireflies v3. Beautiful in every way.


Let's see some pics showing off those glowing tubes!!!


----------



## 9bphillips

Basco said:


> Hey, what did you pay for your KR RK 5U4G when acquired back then?


Good luck finding them! They are almost impossible to find nowadays!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> Good luck finding them! They are almost impossible to find nowadays!


Yeah, ever since Feliks' son "got sick" and Best300B.com shut down the supply has kinda dried up.  Maybe Eunice has decided to pack it in and finally retire.


----------



## 9bphillips

ColSaulTigh said:


> Yeah, ever since Feliks' son "got sick" and Best300B.com shut down the supply has kinda dried up.  Maybe Eunice has decided to pack it in and finally retire.


Their website has been down for a long time now!


----------



## SteveHulk

ColSaulTigh said:


> Yeah, ever since Feliks' son "got sick" and Best300B.com shut down the supply has kinda dried up.  Maybe Eunice has decided to pack it in and finally retire.


Good grief, are you suggesting that Kron Audio itself has shut down? That would be a disaster 😢


----------



## mab1376

SteveHulk said:


> Good grief, are you suggesting that Kron Audio itself has shut down? That would be a disaster 😢


Try contacting them here: https://www.kraudiousa.com/contact.php?subj=General Inquiry

They can probably give you another reseller to buy from.


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Nov 18, 2022)

SteveHulk said:


> Good grief, are you suggesting that Kron Audio itself has shut down? That would be a disaster 😢


I don't know what's going on with KR, but I do know Eunice Kron has said that she will only sell the Riccardo Kron edition tubes to Feliks and his son.  And since his son owned best300b (which is now shut down) and Feliks does not sell individual tubes, then it's quite possible we won't see them again.


----------



## joseph69

The Cable Company


----------



## AudioDuck

joseph69 said:


> The Cable Company


Sweet Lord, those are spendy! And I thought NOS Tung-Sol 5998s were bad…

(BTW, The Cable Company is great, been a customer of theirs for 15+ years)


----------



## joseph69

AudioDuck said:


> Sweet Lord, those are spendy! And I thought NOS Tung-Sol 5998s were bad…
> 
> (BTW, The Cable Company is great, been a customer of theirs for 15+ years)


Yes, they're pricey. I've come so close to pulling the trigger on a quad of 2A3 and the 274B so many times, but I enjoy my EML 2A3 and USAF 596 in my WA33 so much that I'll wait until I ned new tubes.
Also been dealing with Ethan at TCC for some time now...definitely a great guy and a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

joseph69 said:


> The Cable Company


Those are not Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions.


----------



## joseph69

ColSaulTigh said:


> Those are not Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions.


@SteveHulk mentions nothing about the "Anniversary Edition" but rather the HP version...it was you who mentioned the "Anniversary Edition" which is why I posted the link for the KR-274B-HP. What's the difference between the HP and AE?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

joseph69 said:


> @SteveHulk mentions nothing about the "Anniversary Edition" but rather the HP version...it was you who mentioned the "Anniversary Edition" which is why I posted the link for the KR-274B-HP. What's the difference between the HP and AE?


Your right - my bad.  I'm just so used to talking about the Riccardo Kron Anniversary Editions I forget the others even exist.

Riccardo Kron was the man behind KR Audio.  They made special "Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition" tubes for Lampizat0r (Feliks of Feliks Envy fame).

You can read about them here:

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/03/new-kr-audio-rk-limited-series-tubes.html?m=1


----------



## AnalogEuphoria

need some advice guys, what differences should I expect between WA2 and WA6 for HD650?


----------



## joseph69

4


----------



## AnalogEuphoria




----------



## Ciggavelli




----------



## ColSaulTigh

ThanatosVI said:


> If the Wa33 would use the tube complement of the 3ES I would have bought one long ago.
> I even inquired about a custom amp (basically a 3ES for regular headphones) but to no avail.
> 
> Now that the CRBN is on order the 3ES became more interesting again, but only if I feel my Octave V16 + Mjölnir SRD-7 lacking.
> ...





grokit said:


> I am very happy with the 3ES. I can't recommend it highly enough, as both an electrostatic headamp or as a balanced preamp. I'm going out to a Wells Headtrip II with the pre circuit, which is a fantastic solid state dynamic headamp. I feel like these headphone amplifiers are as good as I will ever get, because they both honestly leave me wanting nothing. Tweaks, cables and perhaps some source upgrades are all I'm interested in (except for every top headphone ever NO! I'm not a collector lol) now.
> 
> Speaking of top headphones; since you mentioned the CRBN (top of my list after some WA 300B re-issues!); Mike at Woo and I have been corresponding off and on. He told me that the CRBN was voiced with the 3ES, later I asked what the tube compliment was and he said stock. He recommends the stock tubes during the 3ES break-in as well. I rode with the stock tubes for a few weeks, then I rolled in a few old tubes from my WA22 days to keep the stock 300B's company, notably the USAF 690.
> 
> ...


Sorry to drag up older posts, but, since I'm now hunting for an amp for new CRBN's that I ordered - how are you still liking the 3ES?  It just so happens that it uses the same compliment of tubes that my WA5-LE uses, so win/win!


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColSaulTigh said:


> Sorry to drag up older posts, but, since I'm now hunting for an amp for new CRBN's that I ordered - how are you still liking the 3ES?  It just so happens that it uses the same compliment of tubes that my WA5-LE uses, so win/win!


@Ciggavelli  you surely can share some impressions of the Woo 3ES


----------



## Ciggavelli

ThanatosVI said:


> @Ciggavelli  you surely can share some impressions of the Woo 3ES


Yeah, I like my 3ES Elite a lot. Though, I haven’t tried another estat amp, so I can’t make comparisons. The other amp I’d look at would be the DIY T2, but it’s pricey and the wait time in long. I haven’t heard it, but everybody that has seems to love it.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, I like my 3ES Elite a lot. Though, I haven’t tried another estat amp, so I can’t make comparisons. The other amp I’d look at would be the DIY T2, but it’s pricey and the wait time in long. I haven’t heard it, but everybody that has seems to love it.


Actually the 3ES can use Elrogs, maybe with those it even beats the T2.


----------



## rivonlol

Hello all. 
If anyone is interested, I have put my WA22 2nd gen up for sale along with some upgrade tubes!


----------



## bpcans

I have my headphone system setup so that when I put my hp’s on without any music playing there is nothing but inky black silence. Well the other day I noticed an almost imperceptible low register hum coming thru my hp’s until I started the music. And today when changing tracks on Roon via my iPad I heard this screeching distortion coming through the right channel until I stopped and then restarted the music. Could one of the power or driver tubes be about to fail, or could there be a poor interconnect connection somewhere in the listening chain? I thought I’d ask this question of you guys before I endeavor to diagnose the issue in the light of day. Thnx


----------



## SteveHulk

Sounds more like a digital problem than an analogue one.


----------



## joseph69 (Dec 13, 2022)

bpcans said:


> I have my headphone system setup so that when I put my hp’s on without any music playing there is nothing but inky black silence. Well the other day I noticed an almost imperceptible low register hum coming thru my hp’s until I started the music. And today when changing tracks on Roon via my iPad I heard this screeching distortion* coming through the right channel* until I stopped and then restarted the music. Could one of the power or driver tubes be about to fail, or could there be a poor interconnect connection somewhere in the listening chain? I thought I’d ask this question of you guys before I endeavor to diagnose the issue in the light of day. Thnx


I'd start by swapping the L & R driver tubes and listen if the noise is audible in the L channel, if not, then swap the power tubes.
I'm having a slight issue with my L channel hearing crackling/distortion through the headphone driver with my WA33, especially after 3hrs of use, and I believe it's 1 of my 2 drivers but I have yet to swap them to the R channel being it isn't immediately present.


----------



## bpcans

joseph69 said:


> I'd start by swapping the L & R driver tubes and listen if the noise is audible in the L channel, if not, then swap the power tubes.
> I'm having a slight issue with my L channel hearing crackling/distortion through the headphone driver with my WA33, especially after 3hrs of use, and I believe it's 1 of my 2 drivers but I have yet to swap them to the R channel being it isn't immediately present.


Thanks @joseph69. I believe that I had become spoiled not having to adjust or tweak anything in my rig for going on close to a year. So I ended up swapping out my USAF 596 rectifier for a pretty much brand new Sophia Electric Princess 274b, and that did the trick. So I’m thinking/hoping that the problem is an old tube adapter. You know the 596 has those two rabbit ear prongs on its top? 

 I could say that the 274b isn’t the same thing as the 596 in actual sonic capabilities. But I’d be lying.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

bpcans said:


> I could say that the 274b isn’t the same thing as the 596 in actual sonic capabilities. But I’d be lying.


Yeah, but the 274 doesn't look as cool as the "Mighty" 596...


----------



## jonathan c

For sheer swagger, the USAF 596 + Woo Audio adapter is _it. _Again, presenting WA6 ‘Sixilla’ !! 


 (“_Where are ECG Philips and GE, I will exterminate!”)_


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> For sheer swagger, the USAF 596 + Woo Audio adapter is _it. _Again, presenting WA6 ‘Sixilla’ !!  (“_Where are ECG Philips and GE, I will exterminate!”)_


Do we have to play this game??

Double trouble!


----------



## bpcans

@ColSaulTigh, I thought that I wasn’t going to enjoy the sound of the Sophia Princess 274b rectifier after having used the Mighty USAF 596 for ten straight years in both my WA6 1st Gen and now my WA22 2nd Gen. But I am. The Princess seems to be a good match with my vintage Tung Sol 5998’s and Sylvania brown base 6SN7’s that were made in the 50’s. Honestly I’m thinking that my 596 Frankenstein had probably run it’s allotted number of usable hours and was beginning to crap out. Oh h’well. Everything dies eventually. 😞 

The Sophia Electric 274b seems to have a more pronounced mid-range than the 596, and with a slightly wider soundstage also. But I’m wary of direct comparisons between the two because the 596 had thousands of hours on it, while the Princess hasn’t more than 50 hours tops playing time. What do you think of the Princess 274b compared to the many other rectifier tubes that you’ve tried?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

bpcans said:


> @ColSaulTigh, I thought that I wasn’t going to enjoy the sound of the Sophia Princess 274b rectifier after having used the Mighty USAF 596 for ten straight years in both my WA6 1st Gen and now my WA22 2nd Gen. But I am. The Princess seems to be a good match with my vintage Tung Sol 5998’s and Sylvania brown base 6SN7’s that were made in the 50’s. Honestly I’m thinking that my 596 Frankenstein had probably run it’s allotted number of usable hours and was beginning to crap out. Oh h’well. Everything dies eventually. 😞
> 
> The Sophia Electric 274b seems to have a more pronounced mid-range than the 596, and with a slightly wider soundstage also. But I’m wary of direct comparisons between the two because the 596 had thousands of hours on it, while the Princess hasn’t more than 50 hours tops playing time. What do you think of the Princess 274b compared to the many other rectifier tubes that you’ve tried?


the Princess is good, but not great.  It presents (to my ears) as a bit thick and lacks a little top-end sparkle.  The EML 5U4G sounds similar but with a better top end.  The KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition has more impactful bass.  The Takatsuki 274B is ultra-clean, albeit a bit dry.  The current king, however, are the Elrog 5U4G.  Different construction than other 5U4G (or 274B, if you prefer).  There's nothing that matches them.  Until something new comes along (or there's something out there I haven't tried) it remains the king.  Having said that, I currently have the EML and the KR in my WA6-SE's and the Elrog(s) in my WA5-LE.  The 596's come out from time-to-time to play, but considering they've kinda dried up on the open market, I reserve them for "special" occasions.

10 years is an impressive run, though!  If you average 10 hours a week, that's 5,200 hours, which I expect is about right for the half-life of that tube.  I don't know what it's evaluated lifespan is, but I can't image the USAF designed it for a 10,000 hour runtime.


----------



## bpcans (Dec 14, 2022)

@ColSaulTigh, thanks for sharing your observations sir. You’re thoughts about the Princess align with mine in that it’s obviously not the pinnacle of rectifiers available today, but it’s not horrible either for a stamped, and not woven like the old WE 274b, mesh plate tube in its price range. Damnit! Before I start contemplating if I should search for an Elrog 5U4G, maybe I should let the Princess burn-in for a few weeks and see want it turns into. I really enjoy hyper detailed presentation from the recordings I listen to, mostly opera and hard bop jazz.


----------



## bpcans

@ColSaulTigh, is this the rectifier tube that you were referring to? http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-elrog-er5u4g-rectifier-tube.html?m=1. What’s so special about it that it costs $640 USD?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

That's the one.

Elrogs have a few things going for them that make them special.  They're  constructed with a thoriated tungsten filament and the two plates are arranged vertically one above the other so that the filament is visible between them.  Their unique construction allows them to provide more power across the entire spectrum with no tube sag effects.  They add weight to what can otherwise sound a bit weak in areas.  There's a sense of presence to music that you don't get from other rectifiers.  Yes, it's expensive but it's worth it.


----------



## Astral Abyss

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's the one.
> 
> Elrogs have a few things going for them that make them special.  They're  constructed with a thoriated tungsten filament and the two plates are arranged vertically one above the other so that the filament is visible between them.  Their unique construction allows them to provide more power across the entire spectrum with no tube sag effects.  They add weight to what can otherwise sound a bit weak in areas.  There's a sense of presence to music that you don't get from other rectifiers.  Yes, it's expensive but it's worth it.


So it sounds like a $2 solid state diode?  Eewww.  (I kid)


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## grokit

ColSaulTigh said:


> Sorry to drag up older posts, but, since I'm now hunting for an amp for new CRBN's that I ordered - how are you still liking the 3ES?  It just so happens that it uses the same compliment of tubes that my WA5-LE uses, so win/win!


I'm absolutely loving the 3ES. I finally received my SR-X9000, and I'm completely ruined for all other setups. I don't want to listen to anything else. In fact, it's making me consider dropping the Headtrip II part of my system. Even though it's the best dynamic setup I've ever heard, the Stax/3ES combo absolutely smashes it. 

My Liquid Lightning MK2 was very good in its day. When I get it going again, I'm looking forward to a comparison of the two amps with the X9000. 
It's great when your amps use common tubes. My WA22 uses the same rectifier and driver tubes as the 3ES 

I set my 3ES up with a matched quad of new-issue WE 300B's, then a pair of Ken-Rad drivers upgraded the Shuguang Treasures I was using. For rectification I had the 596 but it was a bit noisy with my 009's, so I swapped with my WA22's (which is great with the 596) Sophia Princess; much better. My final upgrade will be a new rectifier tube. Mike swears by the Takatsuki, but then I noticed a NOS WE274A with an adapter he had listed that sold quickly. Since I have WE's power tubes I'm curious.

Mike at Woo told me the 3ES was used by Audeze (with the stock tubes) to voice the CRBN. I was curious about them as well as the VOCE, but put down my deposit for the X9000 back in March instead. No regrets there! I would love to compare all three headphones at some point, but...

...life's becoming too short to listen to anything else. Seriously! I'm completely smitten for the first time ever in this hobby


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## Basco

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's the one.
> 
> Elrogs have a few things going for them that make them special.  They're  constructed with a thoriated tungsten filament and the two plates are arranged vertically one above the other so that the filament is visible between them.  Their unique construction allows them to provide more power across the entire spectrum with no tube sag effects.  They add weight to what can otherwise sound a bit weak in areas.  There's a sense of presence to music that you don't get from other rectifiers.  Yes, it's expensive but it's worth it.


Have you ever tried the WE422a against the Elrog ER5U4G? They are at the same price point and WE is considered „holy grail” of the tubes💡


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## ColSaulTigh

Basco said:


> Have you ever tried the WE422a against the Elrog ER5U4G? They are at the same price point and WE is considered „holy grail” of the tubes💡


That's one match up I have not tried.  I'll go hunt one down now and see what I can pick one up for and do a head-to-head comparison!


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## ColSaulTigh

grokit said:


> I'm absolutely loving the 3ES. I finally received my SR-X9000, and I'm completely ruined for all other setups. I don't want to listen to anything else. In fact, it's making me consider dropping the Headtrip II part of my system. Even though it's the best dynamic setup I've ever heard, the Stax/3ES combo absolutely smashes it.
> 
> My Liquid Lightning MK2 was very good in its day. When I get it going again, I'm looking forward to a comparison of the two amps with the X9000.
> It's great when your amps use common tubes. My WA22 uses the same rectifier and driver tubes as the 3ES
> ...


If you're looking for some amazing tubes to drop in, I'm running the new production Elrogs (300B, 5U4G) in my WA5-LE and LOVE them!  Combine them with some Tung Sol 6F8G's and you've got quite possibly the best 300B (non estat) steup I've heard!  I've got a Stax SRM-007t coming from Japan as my "tide me over" amp until I decide which way I'm gonna go with the high-end estat, but I'm leaning towards our beloved Woo....


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## Basco

ColSaulTigh said:


> That's one match up I have not tried.  I'll go hunt one down now and see what I can pick one up for and do a head-to-head comparison!


I know where to get a NOS ( in Austria) if you’re interested. Wasn’t sure which rectifier to choose and didn’t wanted to spend 1,5 K for two tubes at once 😅


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## ColSaulTigh

Basco said:


> I know where to get a NOS ( in Austria) if you’re interested. Wasn’t sure which rectifier to choose and didn’t wanted to spend 1,5 K for two tubes at once 😅


PM me the details, I'll give it a look!


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## mab1376 (Dec 15, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> the Princess is good, but not great.  It presents (to my ears) *as a bit thick and lacks a little top-end sparkle.*  The EML 5U4G sounds similar but with a better top end.  The KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition has more impactful bass.  The Takatsuki 274B is ultra-clean, albeit a bit dry.  The current king, however, are the Elrog 5U4G.  Different construction than other 5U4G (or 274B, if you prefer).  There's nothing that matches them.  Until something new comes along (or there's something out there I haven't tried) it remains the king.  Having said that, I currently have the EML and the KR in my WA6-SE's and the Elrog(s) in my WA5-LE.  The 596's come out from time-to-time to play, but considering they've kinda dried up on the open market, I reserve them for "special" occasions.
> 
> 10 years is an impressive run, though!  If you average 10 hours a week, that's 5,200 hours, which I expect is about right for the half-life of that tube.  I don't know what it's evaluated lifespan is, but I can't image the USAF designed it for a 10,000 hour runtime.


That's exactly why I use it, it synergizes with the music I listen to, and it really works well IMO.

Objectively less balanced than my 596, but it's like a hardset hardware eq. that I find fun to listen to!



Plus is just looks so cool!


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## jonathan c

My Woo Audio WA2 is in the classified adverts.


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## bpcans

@mab1376, if you want to hear the best sound out of your WA22 you’ve got to put a Chinese red panda figurine on top of it.


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## jonathan c

bpcans said:


> @mab1376, if you want to hear the best sound out of your WA22 you’ve got to put a Chinese red panda figurine on top of it.


Panda = Performance Augmentation Noise Dissipation Apparatus. ☑️ 😂


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## AudioDuck

jonathan c said:


> My Woo Audio WA2 is in the classified adverts.


😳😳😳


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## exchez

jonathan c said:


> My Woo Audio WA2 is in the classified adverts.


Gonna miss your WA2 posts. Might have to take up the mantle myself to fill the void!


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## grokit

Basco said:


> Have you ever tried the WE422a against the Elrog ER5U4G? They are at the same price point and WE is considered „holy grail” of the tubes💡





ColSaulTigh said:


> That's one match up I have not tried.  I'll go hunt one down now and see what I can pick one up for and do a head-to-head comparison!


There's also the Elrog 274B, and even a WE 274B. I'm curious about these as well.
But good luck finding the former, and the latter while available is ridiculou$ atm. 

I'm looking forward to this comparison


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## ColSaulTigh

grokit said:


> There's also the Elrog 274B, and even a WE 274B. I'm curious about these as well.
> But good luck finding the former, and the latter while available is ridiculou$ atm.
> 
> I'm looking forward to this comparison


I had the Elrog 274B prior to the Elrog 5U4G I am currently running in my WA5-LE.

The 274B pair had a defective tube out of the box, as confirmed by Thomas Meyer (Elrog).  They were replaced with 5U4G's without issue.  I think they were simply defective, possibly had a loose filament from shipping.

I have yet to try a WE 422A or 274B.  If I happen to find a pair at a reasonable price I'll be happy to give then a shot.


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## Basco (Dec 19, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> I had the Elrog 274B prior to the Elrog 5U4G I am currently running in my WA5-LE.
> 
> The 274B pair had a defective tube out of the box, as confirmed by Thomas Meyer (Elrog).  They were replaced with 5U4G's without issue.  I think they were simply defective, possibly had a loose filament from shipping.
> 
> I have yet to try a WE 422A or 274B.  If I happen to find a pair at a reasonable price I'll be happy to give then a shot.


I saw that WE422A goes around the same price tag (eBay and other online market places) as the ER5U4Gs lately…

The Problem with @Dubstep Girl comprehensive tube thread is, that it promises WE422A as the NOS „holy grail“ but lacks a comparison of the new gen tubes like Elrogs for example.

If you don’t plan to do tube rolling and simply want to go to „the best“ in terms of sound one must choose between WE vs. ER

💡🤔


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## ThanatosVI

Basco said:


> If you don’t plan to do tube rolling and simply want to go to „the best“ in terms of sound one must choose between WE vs. ER


There is no "best" in audio. 
It's subjective. For some the best will be WE for some ER and for some it will be something different entirely.


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## Basco

ThanatosVI said:


> There is no "best" in audio.
> It's subjective. For some the best will be WE for some ER and for some it will be something different entirely.



Thats true, preference differs.
One might say that higher tier rectifiers offer another level of „detail“ „soundstage“ or weight of the musical presentation compared to lower level rectifiers.

But again nothing might be set in stone and a Fleetwood Mac Album might sound better on a Birmar 5Z4GY than on an Elrog 5U4G for some ears…


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## Badas

Basco said:


> Thats true, preference differs.
> One might say that higher tier rectifiers offer another level of „detail“ „soundstage“ or weight of the musical presentation compared to lower level rectifiers.
> 
> But again nothing might be set in stone and a Fleetwood Mac Album might sound better on a Birmar 5Z4GY than on an Elrog 5U4G for some ears…


Yes. You do have to find a compromise over all music. It can be difficult and you have to decide what you like and dislike about particular tubes.
That is why some say I would like a mix a bit of this and that tube. I do that.
For example: I like the bass on Brimar 5z4GY and generally I find it has a warmer presentation (that is really me). However the Tak274B is close but adds this nice reverberation to some notes that the Brimar doesn't do. Technically the reverberation is wrong but heck it's nice. Reminds me of live performances (how everything reflects over a stadium or hall). 
So, ultimately I decided that I like the Tak274B more over the warmth of the Brimar. Does it mean that the Tak274B is best on all music. Hell no!
But generally it is.

For reference: I am a big Brimar 5Z4GY fan. I was one of the first to import from Langrex in 2014 and talked about it very extensively.


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## David222

The WA2 is a fantastic piece of gear.  I can't believe I went so long without an OTL    

Rolling: RFT EZ81 (foil getter), GEC 6080s, Mullard CV4108/7308 (my personal favorites)


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## Basco

David222 said:


> The WA2 is a fantastic piece of gear.  I can't believe I went so long without an OTL
> 
> Rolling: RFT EZ81 (foil getter), GEC 6080s, Mullard CV4108/7308 (my personal favorites)


Nice,

How do you like the WL in combination with the WA2? Have a Soekris and thinking about upgrading to this DAC in future.


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## David222

Basco said:


> Nice,
> 
> How do you like the WL in combination with the WA2? Have a Soekris and thinking about upgrading to this DAC in future.



Love the WL with the WA2 & WA6.  Rockna has *tremendous* synergy with Woo Audio and also Wells Audio gear _(recently picked up a modified solid state Milo from Jeff Wells). _

The Wavelight is really a phenominal DAC, the best I've experienced thus far in my journey.   So much so, that I put my MHDT Orchid up for sale here. Never thought I would sell the Orchid - another phenomenal DAC - but it's just not getting any playtime and really can't compete with the WL (nor should it).


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## joseph69

Isn't that a WA22?


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## Basco (Dec 24, 2022)

Lets see what the fuzz is all about and if this is more than snake oil 🐍


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## David222 (Dec 24, 2022)

Basco said:


> Lets see what the fuzz is all about and if this is more than snake oil 🐍




After your're finished assessing this well established company - if open to it - perhaps update your profile so we can see what gear testing with  

Otherwise, your opinion is sort of in a vacuum and without context.


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## David222 (Dec 24, 2022)

joseph69 said:


> Isn't that a WA22?



The two models visually appear very similar - easy to confuse depending on photo/post 

The WA2 above is an OTL with 6080 power x 2, 6922 driver x 2, 6CA4 rectifier x 2

The WA22 is transformer-coupled (point-to-point) 6SN7 driver x 2, 6080 power x 2, 5U4G rectifier x 1


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## joseph69

David222 said:


> The two models visually appear very similar - easy to confuse depending on photo/post
> 
> The WA2 above is an OTL with 6080 power x 2, 6922 driver x 2, 6CA4 rectifier x 2
> 
> The WA22 is transformer-coupled (point-to-point) 6SN7 driver x 2, 6080 power x 2, 5U4G rectifier x 1


Yes, I'm aware of their differences. After posting I realized I confused the WA3 which is an OTL and shares the same chassis as the WA6 and the WA2 shares the same chassis with the WA22. Apologies.


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## David222

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I'm aware of their differences. After posting I realized I confused the WA3 which is an OTL and shares the same chassis as the WA6 and the WA2 shares the same chassis with the WA22. Apologies.



Yes...same chasis and easy to confuse at quick glance. Figured I would just post the tube compliments - for anyone else researching through the thread.

I know you have a WA33 and are no stranger to their lineup 

Given how great the WA6 (modified) and the WA2 sound --> I can only imagine how incredible your WA33 must be!


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## joseph69

Yes, easy to confuse.
I did own the WA6 and it was an excellent amplifier, as well as owning the WA6 SE for a short time, but preferred the WA6 due to more tube rolling options. Really enjoy my WA33 (StandardEdition) w/upgraded tubes all around.


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## Basco (Dec 25, 2022)

David222 said:


> After your're finished assessing this well established company - if open to it - perhaps update your profile so we can see what gear testing with
> 
> Otherwise, your opinion is sort of in a vacuum and without context.


Hey David, no offense. Never "meant" to make a derogatory remark regarding the reputation of Synergistic Research. If I weren't confident to some extend that it will have an influence of the sound I wouldn't have considered buying the fuse. @ColSaulTigh highly recommended them to me and I trust him. Never the less I need to "find" out for myself how a little fuse can influence (to what extend) the sound that mostly gets it's benefits from the amp's rectifiers.

Regarding your setup question, I'm going to use it within my tube amp Woo WA6-SE. Headphones are ZMF VC and Meze Liric. Looking forward to your opinion.


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## David222

Basco said:


> Hey David, no offense. Never "meant" to make a derogatory remark regarding the reputation of Synergistic Research. If I weren't confident so some extend that it will have an influence of the sound I wouldn't have considered buying the fuse. @ColSaulTigh highly recommended them to me and I trust him. Never the less I need to "find" out for myself how a little fuse can influence (to what extend) the sound that mostly gets it's benefits from the amp's rectifiers.
> 
> Regarding your setup question, I'm going to use it within my tube amp Woo WA6-SE. Headphones are ZMF VC and Meze Liric. Looking forward to your opinion.



All good my friend - was just busting your chops for the snake oil comment...Everyone is entitled to their opinion(s) - that's what makes it fun on here...

The SR Purple fuse takes a good amount of time to break-in so be patient with it.  Fuses are certainly chasing after the last few percentage points of performance - but why not have it all


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## Basco

joseph69 said:


> Yes, easy to confuse.
> I did own the WA6 and it was an excellent amplifier, as well as owning the WA6 SE for a short time, but preferred the WA6 due to more tube rolling options. Really enjoy my WA33 (StandardEdition) w/upgraded tubes all around.


For its price / value point I really prefer the WA6-SE. Surly WA33 is another level but considering the price for the amp and tubes upgrades that go along with it you can be easily reach 10x times the price of the WA6-SE. But if you can afford it why not.


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## ColSaulTigh

Basco said:


> For its price / value point I really prefer the WA6-SE. Surly WA33 is another level but considering the price for the amp and tubes upgrades that go along with it you can be easily reach 10x times the price of the WA6-SE. But if you can afford it why not.


We all know my love of the WA6-SE, and from there I progressed up to the WA5-LE.  From here, though, I might step outside the Woo family.  I've been eyeballing the Ampandsound Red October, and I've also just started to move into the world of electrostatic.  I have a Stax SRM-007t coming, and an Audeze CRBN sitting on a shelf waiting for it to arrive.  I have a buddy who swears by them, so I figured I'd try it out.  If I REALLY get into it, I might get a Woo 3ES, but that's far down the road at this point.


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## joseph69

ColSaulTigh said:


> We all know my love of the WA6-SE, and from there I progressed up to the WA5-LE.  From here, though, I might step outside the Woo family.  I've been eyeballing the Ampandsound Red October, and I've also just started to move into the world of electrostatic.  I have a Stax SRM-007t coming, and an Audeze CRBN sitting on a shelf waiting for it to arrive.  I have a buddy who swears by them, so I figured I'd try it out.  If I REALLY get into it, I might get a Woo 3ES, but that's far down the road at this point.


Tried Stax 009 and 007mk2 driven by Mjolnir KGSShv-KGST then finally HeadAmps BHSE for -/+3yrs. Beautiful sound from the estats systems, but in the end they got a little too polite for my tastes and didn't want to be limited to estats just for the BHSE. I moved on to the Utopia and HE1Kv2, as well as Grado's driven by both, the WA33 and GS-Xmk2 and still enjoy these systems very much. 

Of course this is a matter of preference and I mentioned my reasons for switching back, but electrostatics are definitely a must to try if you never owned them. I also heard the 009 driven by the 3ES at CJNYC '21 and it was very impressive, as well as hearing the CRBN driven by the Mjolnir Carbon which was very impressive too. Enjoy the journey.


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## ThanatosVI

Does anyone here have Woo Audio 9 pin to 9 pin socket savers and is able to tell me the Dimensions?

I'm curious if they would fit my Octave V16


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## ColSaulTigh

ThanatosVI said:


> Does anyone here have Woo Audio 9 pin to 9 pin socket savers and is able to tell me the Dimensions?
> 
> I'm curious if they would fit my Octave V16


That's probably the one Woo adapter I don't have...


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## AudioDuck

Basco said:


> Lets see what the fuzz is all about and if this is more than snake oil 🐍


I’ll be curious to hear your thoughts after 50+ hours of use! (Mind you, some folks hear changes for much longer, as the reported burn-in time is 200+ hours). 

Please note that Woo Audio does not advise long periods (8+ hours) of continuous amp usage. 

Feel free to DM me if you prefer to avoid comments from folks who feel fuse changes are ineffective and a waste of funds. 😉


----------

